# HELP! Soapmaking Calculator



## Admin (Sep 16, 2018)

I'm going to develop a soapmaking calculator. Either hosted here or on another domain but heavily linked here.

Take SoapCalc for instance, what is it missing? What more can I add to the calculator that would help you?


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## dibbles (Sep 16, 2018)

The ability to calculate NaOH/KOH batches comes to mind first. Soapee calculator does that, but I can't seem to get the recipes to print on one page, so I stick with Soap Calc.


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## Zany_in_CO (Sep 16, 2018)

SoapCalc is about as good as it gets! Soapee too! And Summer Bee Meadow has dual lye formulations, although it only does ounces, not grams.

A separate calc for liquid soap only would be helpful if it always showed the water amount at 3 X KOH to make the lye solution and provided the dilution water amount at 2-3 times the *weight of oils* used. Back in the day, we had "RJ's Calc" that did that and it always worked well for me.

What we really need, JMHO, is a Lotion Calc like the one designed by Joseph Henry Skin Esscentuals, sadly, now defunct, but archived at Save on Scents. Go to the link below; scroll down to "Lotion/Creams", click on that then scroll down to the very bottom of that page to see the calculator (no longer working). How to Use the Calc is described in the paragraph above it.

https://www.saveonscents.com/skinesscentuals.php

Please, please, please.


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## artemis (Sep 16, 2018)

I use soapee and I like just about everything, from layout and design to features. I will say that there is a flaw that I actually like. When you choose ounces as your measure, then your recipe will be displayed with both ounces a d grams side by side. I suspect it's a flaw, because when you choose grams, all you get is grams. I don't know why I like that, but I do.

What's missing from soapee? An easy way to keep track of batches. The Bramble Berry app does this and I used the feature quite often, back when I had the app. It would even alert you when the batch was cured (you could specify how long the cure should be).


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## Admin (Sep 16, 2018)

So there needs to be a login system? So you can login and save your batches?

So the calculator needs everything SoapCalc does PLUS the ability to save a batch PLUS the ability to calculate NaOH/KOH batches? All that correct?

What else?

Then outside a Soap Calc, re-inventing the Lotion Calc.


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## Alfa_Lazcares (Sep 16, 2018)

How about adding an “another liquid” calculation. So lets say I want to make a soap with 30% cream (or whatever other liquid/puree). So you would select liquid 1-water and 2nd liquid 30% . So it would make the calculation of “you need to use 100g of water and 30% other liquid”. Is this dumb? Hahaha i literally just thought about since when I split the liquid i just use a random number depending on how much water i need to use in the first place.


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## DeeAnna (Sep 16, 2018)

I much prefer the Soapee interface compared to Soapcalc and SMB. Soapee is much cleaner and more intuitive to my mind.

My "pie in the sky calc" would allow the user to enter the alkali purity for NaOH and for KOH. Soapee lets you enter the KOH purity, but like all the other calcs, it assumes the NaOH purity is 100%. Ugh.

I'd like to see the default method for calculating the water weight be _anything _other than "water as % of oils." The default should be lye concentration or water:lye ratio, IMO.

People often want to add an acid to a soap recipe -- citric acid, vinegar, etc. -- but don't have the math skills to calculate the added NaOH or KOH needed to neutralize the acid. It would be nice if there was a way for a person to enter the weight (or % ppo) of citric acid powder or 5% vinegar or other acid and then the calc would calculate the NaOH or KOH needed to react with the acid. The calc should then add that extra alkali weight to the weight of alkali needed for saponification.

It would be lovely if a calc provided a way for people to enter the % ppo of tetrasodium EDTA or sodium citrate powder to be used in a recipe. The calc would determine the weight of the ingredient. This same idea could be used for calculating the weight of salt, sugar, or other minor additives that are often included in soap recipes.

I realize I'm poking at a sacred cow, but I really cringe at the Soapcalc names for the combined fatty acid percentages. The "cleansing" and "conditioning" names are particularly confusing and unhelpful. I'd hate for yet another soap recipe calc to perpetuate stereotypes that can be misleading and unhelpful.

I also question whether some of the combined % of fatty acids really explain what they are supposed to explain. For example, "bubbly" and "creamy" both include ricinoleic acid %. That gives new soapers the impression that the more castor oil one uses, the better, which is really misleading. And the "conditioning" number, which is supposedly a measure of mildness, includes the % of oleic, linoleic, and linolenic acids, but doesn't include the % of stearic and palmitic acids.


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## Admin (Sep 16, 2018)

So we can do everything. I just really need help as I'm not experienced like you all in explaining everything that needs to occur.

@dibbles said "The ability to calculate NaOH/KOH batches" .... @DeeAnna Is that the same as yours?


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## Chris_S (Sep 16, 2018)

At first I used the sage lye calc which I thought was ok until I found the bramble berry one the thing I like most about the bramble berry one is that you can tell it what % super fat you want which as a beginner is much easier to understand than the way the other one iv used displays it. my knowledge and use is limited so not got much other input but as said previous by someone I think living in england and most recipes being in ounces when we generally use grams having the 2 displayed besides each other would be a handy addition that way it could be seen that any conversions done have been correct.
The total overall batch size in both grams and ounces would be handy for comparison too. 
I'm not fully researched into this yet but maybe something that would help newcomers figure out how much clay to add to benifit from a natural colour or splitting a recipe to add stuff like goats milk and mixing advice would be a useful addition even if it's just as a little explanation on the page and not part of the calculator itself


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## DeeAnna (Sep 16, 2018)

@Admin -- Not really. Dibbles wants to be able to make a "dual lye" recipe using both NaOH and KOH. This is what Soapee calls a "hybrid" recipe.

I want to be able to enter the purity of the alkali no matter if I'm using only NaOH, only KOH, or both in my recipe. Soapee lets you enter the KOH purity, but doesn't allow you to enter the NaOH purity.

I edited my previous post by the way with another thought about the soapcalc "numbers"


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## Admin (Sep 16, 2018)

@DeeAnna The calculations you want to see, do you already know the formulas and you do yourself now?


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## Arimara (Sep 16, 2018)

Everyone put it some great idea so far. I second the lotion calculator but it needs to take into consideration the type of preservatives being used and well as if someone is using more than one preservative at a time.


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## Admin (Sep 16, 2018)

So the lotion calculator would be a separate calculator right? Soap and lotion are two separate sets of calculations? Is there any overlap?


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## dibbles (Sep 16, 2018)

These are all good suggestions. @DeeAnna I understand your desire to have the ability to enter the NaOH/KOH purity, but without frequent testing, what would you suggest as a standard % of purity. If we are using calcs that are assuming 100% purity and already know that isn't accurate, is there an alkali purity percentage that would work better? I hope I'm phrasing this right. 

@artemis I like seeing weights in both grams and ounces too. I think that I'm better able to see how much I'm going to be using in a recipe in ounce measurements (especially if I'm getting low on an oil or using one that is more expensive) but I weigh everything in grams.

And who knew there was ever such a thing as a lotion calculator. That could be handy


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## OldHippie (Sep 16, 2018)

Admin said:


> So there needs to be a login system? So you can login and save your batches?


Soapcalc uses cookies to save your batches.  No logon necessary.


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## artemis (Sep 16, 2018)

OldHippie said:


> Soapcalc uses cookies to save your batches.  No logon necessary.


I use multiple devices (phone, tablet, PC). Without the login, I don't think I can access my recipes unless I'm always on the same device, right? For me, that would be a problem, since I use soapee with all three devices for different reasons/purposes.


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## SaltedFig (Sep 16, 2018)

I really like SoapCalc for the brevity of the first few lines, and how it can handle changing from percentages to weights and back (it makes it very easy to resize in SoapCalc - something that Soapee is not great at).

*Mixed liquid ingredients:*
I would like to see an adjustment to the water amount for mixed liquids, that contain either fat or acids in liquids, so that the water content is also taken into account as well as the the required hydroxide needed.
This feature would be very useful for a number of liquids (like vinegar, goat's milk, cream, coconut milk etc.).
Having default percentages (of fat or acid), but being able to manually adjust the percentage on these ingredients would be useful.
For example, some people have 5% vinegar as their usual strength, but other people buy 6% vinegar strength.
Another example is milk - it could be a default skim milk 3%, with the ability to enter 6% for the fat content instead.

*Master Batch Lye:*
With the increase in split lye (for milk soaps) and masterbatching, I think it would be an excellent selling point to have a lye calculator that can handle master batch liquids (currently all lye calculators require people who master batch (or use the split method) to manually calculate the adjustments to both lye and water (which increases the chance of error).
This could be achieved by adding something like a tickbox for masterbatch/split, and an entry box for the lye concentration percentage (with a default to 50%).
The output would be the weight of the masterbatch solution and the weight of the addition liquid required (to bring it up to the desired lye concentration/ratio).

*Unit of measurement:*
If possible, I would like to be able to print out my recipe only with my chosen unit of measurement (to reduce the chance of error due to reading from the wrong column).

*Dual lye:*
I'm another one who would like to see dual lye on a SoapCalc style calculator, with a percentage of each hydroxide being manually entered.

*Hydroxide purity:*
I would also like to be able to enter the purity percentage for sodium hydroxide as well as potassium hydroxide.


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## Zany_in_CO (Sep 16, 2018)

Admin said:


> Then outside a Soap Calc, re-inventing the Lotion Calc.


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## Admin (Sep 16, 2018)

Is there a current lotion calculator working you all use currently?


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## Arimara (Sep 16, 2018)

I had to fashion a crude one with excel and optimized it Optiphen Plus. To answer your previous question: I think the calculations for lotion vs soap might be a bit more work, especially if the re w are so few lotion calculators out there.


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## DeeAnna (Sep 16, 2018)

Admin said:


> @DeeAnna The calculations you want to see, do you already know the formulas and you do yourself now?



Yes to both.



dibbles said:


> ...but without frequent testing, what would you suggest as a standard % of purity....



A number of suppliers provide that information -- I know Essential Depot and The Lye Guy do. It would be reasonable to use the % provided by your supplier. I don't think it's necessary to test the purity if you do a good job of providing reasonably dry, air-tight storage. For people who don't know the lye purity, the defaults could be set to 100% for NaOH and 90% for KOH to give those folks something to use.


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## Dean (Sep 17, 2018)

First of all this is awesome.  Thx!

I don’t know who Admin is but I’m quite certain she must be an angel from heaven.

My wish list based on Soapee:

Add field to pick soap type...  bath bars, face bar, liquid, cream, shaving bar, shaving cream, etc.  Recommendations (fatty acid combos, water/lye, etc.) set to selected type. 

Use realistic recommendations.  For example, I think the realistic range for lauric+myristc is about 10-20%.  Tighten up the ranges.  They r so broad they’re not very helpful. 

Combine Bubbly/Cleansing and exclude ricinoleic acid.

Allow user to enter total weight as an option instead of oil weight.

Change Water Amt to Liquid Amt.   Add field to write in liquid types.

Add field to write in fragrances.

Add field to write in additives.

Add process type..hot cold etc field.

My recipie screen:
Sort by name or batch date (default to today).  The screen should remember user sort preference.

Add percentage of each oil type and display all other pertinent info in summary.







Public Recipies
Allow recipies to be rated and commented on by logged in users.

This is beyond the scope but maybe as a future version have a vendor screen where users can rate vendors and compare prices.

Thx again.


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## DeeAnna (Sep 17, 2018)

_"...Use realistic recommendations. For example, I think the realistic range for lauric+myristc is about 10-20%. Tighten up the ranges. They r so broad they’re not very helpful...."_

I know this is just an example, @Dean, but the catch with this suggestion is that the 10-20% IS a realistic range for these fatty acids. In fact, it is actually more narrow than what I know to be the typical range for many soapers' recipes.


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## Dean (Sep 17, 2018)

“@Dean, but the catch with this suggestion is that the 10-20% IS a realistic range for these fatty acids. In fact, it is actually more narrow than what I know to be the typical range for many soapers' recipes.”

I know the ranges are debatable and I probably should not have used an example as it could ignite controversy.  However, what I was thinking when I wrote that is the ranges that u share.  They r much more helpful than the calcs.  In fact I wrote them dn and put it on my fridge door.  I kind of think of of it as bell curve where u capture just the sweet spot at the top of curve.  Thats prob a crappy example too.  I had to take stats several times b4 I passed and pretty much forgot it all.  Anyway hope u kno what I mean about more narrow and meaningful ranges.


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## dixiedragon (Sep 17, 2018)

Something I'd like to see:

For masterbatching lye water purposes, it would be nice if it told you what your lye + water would weigh at a certain concentration.

Also, I'd like the option to print a very basic recipe - that just includes the weights, oils, and no other info, just because I feel like the page is crowded when I print it.

Also, the ability to search and/or organize recipes. Soapee just saves them in the order you create them in. I'd like to be able search for my All Veggie Soap, or my Tallow Lard soap.


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## cmzaha (Sep 17, 2018)

I have a very simple like...I like a check box next to the oil list so I can check off what I have poured in my buckets. Soapee does not have that


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## amd (Sep 17, 2018)

I use SM3. I like that there is a an option to use premixed lye solution and to enter what ratio premix is. 

I don't like that lye solution calculation is percentage. I believe it is lye concentration percentage, not sure (I am horribly math challenged at percentages). What I did for my recipes was go to soap calc and find the amount of water I needed for my water to lye ratio, and then I adjusted the percentage until it matches the amount needed. I would like a water to lye ratio in any calculator.

I also like that SM3 allows you to mark an ingredient that is added as a water substitute and will adjust the water qty if you have that ingredient marked. It's really handy for doing split method with milks, I know how much premix lye solution to measure, how much additional water to add, and how much milk to add without having to break out my calculator.


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## Admin (Sep 17, 2018)

What is SM3?


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## amd (Sep 17, 2018)

SoapMaker3 program.


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## Zany_in_CO (Sep 18, 2018)

Admin said:


> Is there a current lotion calculator working you all use currently?


I actually use SoapCalc to get my amounts in ounces and grams! LOL
I enter the top 12 fatty acids into the column. I start with 100 gram batch. 100 grams = 100%. Easy to formulate in %. I use Joseph Henry's guidelines mentioned in a previous post. Once that's done, I make a 100 - 300 gram trial batch and go from there.

Joseph Henry's is just about the coolest online calculator I've ever seen. User friendly too. The one shown below is all filled in, but you can type in any ingredient you want. Too bad it's no longer working.


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## Admin (Sep 18, 2018)

amd said:


> SoapMaker3 program.



Wow! $90. Is it that much better then SoapCalc?



Zany_in_CO said:


> Joseph Henry's is just about the coolest online calculator I've ever seen. User friendly too. The one shown below is all filled in, but you can type in any ingredient you want. Too bad it's no longer working.
> View attachment 32110



How much does a calculator like that and SoapCalc have in common? Completely different?


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## shunt2011 (Sep 18, 2018)

SM3 also tracks your stock, supplies and will give cost per bar.  It's a very detailed intensive program to start.  It's much more than just a soap calculator.


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## penelopejane (Sep 18, 2018)

Soapmaker 3 does a lot of these things.  
You can adjust KOH purity but not NaOH. 
It has liquid soap.
The qualities of fatty acids and the resulting soap are calculated differently to Soapcalc.
It has oz and grams and is easily resizable. 

It might be a good place to start to see how it works.


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## Zany_in_CO (Sep 18, 2018)

Admin said:


> How much does a calculator like that and SoapCalc have in common? Completely different?


Yes, it's for formulating lotions, cream & potions. Completely different.


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## amd (Sep 18, 2018)

Admin said:


> Wow! $90. Is it that much better then SoapCalc?
> How much does a calculator like that and SoapCalc have in common? Completely different?



As Shunt and Penelopejane said, SM3 does a lot more than soap calculations. It saves recipes, allowing you to group them. When I make a recipe, it will pull up all of the ingredients in that recipe and tell me if I have stock, am getting low on stock, etc. It will also track cure times, even allow you to edit how much time you want a soap to cure. So, say I make a castile soap that I want to cure for a year, after I make the soap I can edit the cure time to 365 days, and it will keep track of how many days are left in that cure. I don't know if that would be a function that would work well in a simple soap calc, so hopefully someone will chime in if they would like it or not. 

As Zany said, it also allows you to enter non-soap formulations. 

Oh! I just thought of something. It would be nice on the soap calc if there was a list of ingredients in order from most to least. In SM3 I can export an ingredient list for my labels and it has several options for how to list them (as common name, as INCI, and if I want them from most to least I think are the options). This is really nice so that I can copy and paste it into my labelmaker.


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## Jenn Lee (Sep 18, 2018)

I switched from soapcalc to soapee recently, just used brambleberry calc when I was visiting my mom who wanted me to help her make some soap.  I like soapee the best, but it's still lacking a few things that were also mentioned above.  I like to have nice, discreet places (that I can print on 1 page front & back for my recipe binder) for each type of additive.  I actually made my own lye calculator and have slowly been adding these other items into it, but it's a large spreadsheet and a bit messy thus far.  So I have been looking for the following:

Ability to enter purity percentage for Lyes (this is also in the phone app)
INCI names / label generator - preferably not just for the oils and lye, but common additives as well.  This can take a while to look up.
Separate sections for additives - sodium lactate, citric acids, chelators, colorants, fragrances, etc.  Possibly a space to put in the brand of each as well
Costs calculator option would be great
Notes section broken into time frames - @ mixing, @ unmolding, @ 2 wks, @ 4 wks and so on or options to make your own time notations
Dual lye calculator
Extra acid calculator (for acetic acid additions and such like)
Fragrance calculator
Colorant calculator (possibly not, but wow would that be amazing for some help on getting some of the natural colorants in their sweet spots!) or at least options to check the color it best matches (have this on a phone app that is quite nice)
Ability to save the recipe and then edit to make changes
A basic template for labels would be amazing too!
Box for suggested or manually entered cure date/time

Great idea on another soap calculator!!


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## IrishLass (Sep 19, 2018)

SaltedFig said:


> I really like SoapCalc for the brevity of the first few lines, and how it can handle changing from percentages to weights and back (it makes it very easy to resize in SoapCalc - something that Soapee is not great at).



Ditto that. SoapCalc's ability to quickly/easily resize and do weight/percent or percent/weight conversions (in either pounds, ounces or grams) is one of the few reasons why I prefer using SoapCalc instead of Soapee....and not just for soap either. I take advantage of that feature in SoapCalc every time I formulate things such as fragrance blends, oil cleansers, lotions, lip balms, body butters, etc..., and even when formulating or fine-tuning my cooking/baking recipes. If you ask me, a calculator without such a quick/easy ability to do _at least_ that is not a handy enough soap calculator....at least not for my needs anyway.



Admin said:


> So the lotion calculator would be a separate calculator right? Soap and lotion are two separate sets of calculations? Is there any overlap?



Yes, a  lotion calculator would need to be a totally separate calculator. The only thing in common that it would have with a soap calculator would be having a list of oils/fats and the ability to keep track of their weights and percentages for batch size purposes. From there, it would veer off in a totally different direction.

Although a lotion calculator sure would be an awesome thing to have, I can only imagine what a huge undertaking (or rather headache, lol) it would be to create for the use of the general masses of lotion makers or would-be lotion makers at large because there are just so many variables to consider.....things such as the differing preservative systems, the differing HLB systems/emulsiying systems, differing thickeners, additives, cationic ingredients & ionic ingredients and what things work or don't work with each, etc., etc., etc. DeeAnna touches on all these things in *this post here*.

I know of folks such as Arimara that have customized one for themselves based on the specific oils fats, emulsifier and preservatives they like to use for their own formulations, but I have no clue how one would go about creating a user friendly one that can take into consideration all the differing variables and that that _anyone_ from beginner to expert can use just as easily as they would a soap calculator.


IrishLass


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## Admin (Sep 24, 2018)

I need some testers. If you have some time to test a new soap calculator please post here or PM me and I will add you to the private forum.


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## artemis (Sep 24, 2018)

Admin said:


> I need some testers. If you have some time to test a new soap calculator please post here or PM me and I will add you to the private forum.


Me! Me! I like to test things.

Edit to Add: Please. (sorry, I got a little carried away)


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## OldHippie (Sep 24, 2018)

I will participate as a tester.


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## amd (Sep 24, 2018)

Add me to the list of testers, please! Always curious to see how things work.


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## dixiedragon (Sep 24, 2018)

Admin said:


> Is there a current lotion calculator working you all use currently?



I've never seen an online lotion calculator. I built my own using excel, starting with this info from Brambleberry.
https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/lotion/gift-series-lotion-tutorial-from-scratch-2/

I set mine up so I put in percentage of ingredients, then I put it in the total batch size (in grams) and it divides it up. I also put in something that converts the batch size to ounces for me, so I can guess the number of containers I use.


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## freesia792 (Sep 24, 2018)

I use this one. Works well for me.

http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/Calculators/Batch_Size_Calculator.aspx


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## Admin (Sep 24, 2018)

Ok! Got the private forum added and everyone who replied added.

If you use a soap calculator now and can test/provide feedback on a new one. Plus have the time to dedicate, please let me know!


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## SaltedFig (Sep 24, 2018)

Admin said:


> Ok! Got the private forum added and everyone who replied added.
> 
> If you use a soap calculator now and can test/provide feedback on a new one. Plus have the time to dedicate, please let me know!



Found it!


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## earlene (Sep 25, 2018)

Please add me, too.

One suggestion I have is to add a component to calculate batch size for molds based on size of mold.  The only calculator that I know of that does include this now (there could be others) is at Summer Bee Meadow.  What I don't like about it, is that you have to calculate your recipe first before you can calculate the batch size for the size of your mold.  I would prefer a page where the mold calculation can be done separately.  Preferably with built-in conversions for metric as using metric give more accurate soap calculations.  But it would be good if it includes options of inches when measuring the width, depth and height of molds; also cm, of course.

The most important feature for me with what I use now (soapee) is the on-the-fly feature, meaning that all calculations can be changed with co-responding results immediately when a change is entered into a data field.  Others have mentioned other features that are important, of course.  I thought it would be important to add that inclusion of all forms of oils that many soapers use is also very important.  Some calculators don't include any type of shortening, which makes it very difficult to use them if a soaper wants to use a grocery-store bought shortening.


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## TeresaGG (Oct 2, 2018)

I just read about using ammonium hydroxide for soap making. Here is a link to an article with the mathematics needed.
https://classicbells.com/soap/ammoniumHydroxide.html
Edit to fix the link.


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## cherrybleach (Dec 27, 2018)

@Zany_in_CO said:





> What we really need, JMHO, is a Lotion Calc like the one designed by Joseph Henry Skin Esscentuals, sadly, now defunct, but archived at Save on Scents. Go to the link below; scroll down to "Lotion/Creams", click on that then scroll down to the very bottom of that page to see the calculator (no longer working).



Late response, but OMG Joseph Henry's site! It was and continues to be my favorite general resource. He and his work are very close to my heart. Tried to track him down a about 2 years ago, found a couple of old blogs, some comments on some of his friends' blogs, even found his picture! Would attach but all that data is somewhere on one of my external hard drives. This might already be common knowledge, but IIRC he was living in San Francisco, and had lived there for many years prior, but I believe he was originally from the midwest. His final posts indicate he was close to the end of his long (for the time) struggle with HIV - yet another very sad reminder of all that was lost during that era..
He was a wonderful writer - his narratives and code are equally elegant and meaningful. His blog entries were so good - his life story seemed both unique and familiar, his daily anecdotes were interesting and insightful. All of the Skin Esscentuals website is written in pure html, so very easy to access, preserve, and manipulate, and the calculators are downloadable excel docs, also very easy to access and use. Skin Esscentuals is not easy to find anymore, and am so happy to learn others know and refer to it.


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