# Check Me?



## BrewerGeorge (Jun 7, 2017)

This is a GLS paste I made last night.

70% high-oleic safflower
20% coconut oil 76F
10% cocoa butter, bleached and descented

I did not cook this, just stirred occasionally over a few hours and hit it with the SB a couple times.


----------



## Arimara (Jun 7, 2017)

Does it zap?


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Jun 7, 2017)

Accidentally posted without finishing...

I wanted to run this by the gurus here because this paste isn't clear the way my last attempt was and seems visually to have stopped at the 'mashed potato' phase.  However, it does not zap and does lather as much as you'd expect a high-oliec soap to lather.  It seems done, but doesn't look like I'd expected.

Is it just the cocoa butter making it cloudy?


----------



## bumbleklutz (Jun 7, 2017)

I'm a Ls newbie myself, but that's what my paste looked like except it was more taffy-like than mashed potato like.  When it was diluted, it came out a crystal clear amber color.  I'm guessing that if it doesn't zap, it will be fine; and it will dilute a clear amber color.


----------



## Susie (Jun 7, 2017)

If it does not zap, it is soap.  Mine hardly ever makes crystal clear gel phase.  My suspicion is that I stick blend too much and mix air in there.  When I dilute, it is clear, so I don't worry about it.

Oh, yeah, butters will make cloudy soap.  Not bad soap, mind you, just not clear.  Who cares, anyway?  I make soap for me and my family.  Judgy people can just go make their own soap!

Congratulations!


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Jun 7, 2017)

Thanks, Susie.  Now is the starting point for the dilution _twice _the weight of soap or _half _the weight?


----------



## DeeAnna (Jun 7, 2017)

That looks fine to me, BG -- nicely done! My freshly made LS paste varies in appearance from slightly translucent amber to more opaque white like yours. You may find the paste will become more translucent and amber as time goes on.


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Jun 7, 2017)

The safflower is *very* light, so this might be less amber than one made with olive oil.


----------



## DeeAnna (Jun 7, 2017)

I'd start diluting with 1 part water to 2 parts paste.


----------



## lenarenee (Jun 7, 2017)

It's gorgeous!  Can you post a pic of the finished product and let us know how you like the recipe??


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Jun 7, 2017)

Ok, this is interesting.

I started with 200g of soap paste, 100g of water, 9g sodium lactate and 6g sodium citrate.  

That wasn't cutting it, so I kept adding water slowly until I got to a total of 250g of water with the original 200g paste.  Scented with 7g of rose FO and 7g PS80.  It was so thick and creamy that I decided to risk adding some pink mica as well.  Here's what we've got.


----------



## CTAnton (Jun 7, 2017)

Looks good to me BG...how's it feel?


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Jun 7, 2017)

It feels a little slimy, but it lathers well and rinses clean. I think I might be a little sensitive to this rose (which is from a sample I've never used before) or just washing my hands a dozen times today had made them sensitive.


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Jun 8, 2017)

Whoa, stop the presses.  

When I checked this morning it had begun separating.  I didn't have time to play around with it, so we'll see what it's like in the evening.  I was *sure* that was going to be a stable colloid too, dangit.


----------



## Dahila (Jun 8, 2017)

I think your paste is beautiful.


----------



## DeeAnna (Jun 8, 2017)

I had a personal bet with myself that you'd see some separation, since the diluted soap is opaque. :mrgreen: Several possibilities -- it may be free fatty acid or excess superfat from not quite enough KOH (always a possibility even with the most careful of soap makers), or it is unsaponifiable components in the recipe (less likely given the fats in your recipe), or it is stearic and palmitic soap that tends to separate out (a possibility). 

If you feel like experimenting, skim off some of the white layer -- say 1/4 cup or so -- and put it in a lye safe container. Stir in 1/2 to 1 gram of dry KOH until the KOH dissolves. Let it sit for a day or two to let the KOH do its thing. Check carefully for zap. Continue to add a bit of KOH until the mixture is slightly zappy. See what happens to the appearance. If the soap becomes clear as a response to the added KOH, then it's excess fatty acid or fat. If it remains cloudy, it's most likely stearic-palmitic soap.


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Jun 8, 2017)

I'm hoping that I whipped it up like whipped cream and it's just falling back down.  We'll see.


----------



## DeeAnna (Jun 8, 2017)

I know Irish Lass uses polysorbate 80 to solubilize/emulsify the stearic acid she adds to her coco-shea liquid soap. That might be an option to try -- it may help the diluted soap to stay mixed on its own.


----------



## earlene (Jun 8, 2017)

Re: the Rose FO.  I used Rose FO from Mad Oils in my deodorant and found that it made my armpit skin feel uncomfortably sensitive for a few days.  So much so the first time using it that I stopped for a 2 or 3 days before using it again.  Then it was less sensitive, but still somewhat. Although being concerned, I carried on with using it carefully applying sparingly and found that after a week or two, the sensitivity seemed to go away.  

In my case, I believe it was too much of the FO (I actually spilled the FO during the measuring and ruined my 0.01g scale).  But it certainly showed me that skin sensitivity to some FO's can sure be a very real concern, as well as careful measuring.  

Maybe you will experience a similar lessening of the sensitive response to your Rose FO as it 'settles or mellows' in the liquid.  Then again, sometimes sensitivities get worse with exposure.


----------



## cmzaha (Jun 8, 2017)

I think it looks lovely. My LS paste color and texture always depends of what oils I have use.


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Jun 9, 2017)

I think I'm in good shape.  I was out late last night and up early today so I didn't get pics, but it's changed to a pink gel with only about a 1/4 inch of foam on top - and hopefully that will be gone by the time I get home for pics.  The pump bottle lost more than half of its volume changing from foam to gel, too.


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Jun 11, 2017)

This has turned out pretty fantastic.  The pics before were apparently whipped cream-like foam that migrated out and left a thick gel behind.  It's about the texture of room temperature honey, or just _slightly_ thinner.  It's considerably thicker than my previous try at GLS with olive/coconut/castor.  It's thick enough that it seems to be suspending the mica really well, too.  It lathers quite well and rinses clean, leaving a nice soft feel behind.  It's not gem-clear even before the mica (because of the citrate and stearic from the cocoa buter, I assume) but it's nicely translucent and the mica gives it depth.  Seems pretty perfect, AFAIC. 

I diluted another batch Friday night and bottled yesterday. Starting with the full amount of water instead of edging up to it and the dilution went much easier.  I ended up adding another 10g of water at the end, but I think that given the precision of my scale measuring 10g over and over the first time, they're probably relatively consistent.  This one has some key lime pie sample from BB and a bit of green vibrance mica.

The recipe ends up being:
70% high-oleic safflower
20% coconut oil 76F
10% cocoa butter
Dilution recipe is:
200g of paste
250-260g of RO water
9g sodium lactate
6g sodium citrate
5-7g of FO
5-7g of PS80 (equal to FO)
around a 1/16th tsp of mica - just a bit on the end of a knife.

I poured the boiling water (with salts) on the paste and squished it around a bit, covered and let sit for several hours, stirring occasionally.  The next morning when most of the chunks were gone I added the scent, mica, and PS80 and stirred briskly into a froth by hand.  Not nearly as much as the first pics, just enough to get everything well mixed.  That froth is gone after about 12 hours and it's ready to bottle.


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Jun 11, 2017)

BrewerGeorge said:


> This is a GLS paste I made last night.
> 70% high-oleic safflower
> 20% coconut oil 76F
> 10% cocoa butter, bleached and descented
> I did not cook this, just stirred occasionally over a few hours and hit it with the SB a couple times.


Looking good!



BrewerGeorge said:


> ... this paste isn't clear the way my last  attempt was and seems visually to have stopped at the 'mashed potato'  phase.


Let it set a few days to see what happens.



BrewerGeorge said:


> However, it does not zap and does lather as much as you'd expect a  high-oliec soap to lather.  It seems done, but doesn't look like I'd  expected.


Even tho it doesn't zap, I'd let it set for a week  or two before diluting. It may "look" more like what you expected with a  little patience.



BrewerGeorge said:


> Is it just the cocoa butter making it cloudy?


Ditto what Susie said. For clear LS, it's best to keep butters at 2% max. Also, in my limited experience, glycerin seems to cloud LS a bit. Which is weird because it's meant to be a clarifier and solvent -- along with simple sugar syrup & alcohol.



BrewerGeorge said:


> ... is the starting point for the dilution _twice _the weight of soap or _half _the weight?


This is where your preference comes into play. Some people like thick LS, but end up having good soap wash down the drain when rinsing off. True LS is thin -- just the nature of the beast. LOL But it has great lather -- even 100% olive oil diluted at the recommended ratio of 15% soap to 85% water, will have excellent lather. Versus 100% coconut oil soap that can be diluted at 40% soap to 60% water -- it has the ability to stay suspended and doesn't settle out at that rate.

IMHO and IME, for your formula, I would weigh the soap and calculate the dilution at 30% soap to 70% water due to the high amount of HO safflower.

My method: Bring water just to the boiling point in a large SS pot, range top. Add the soap in chunks. Turn down the heat to Medium Low. Cover lightly. Check on it every hour or so, breaking the chunks up with a spoon. Lower heat if it starts bubbling. The object is not to COOK the soap, but rather get it to ABSORB all the water. This happens "all of a sudden" when the soap reaches 159°F (71°C),  (Don't ask how I know this. That's a story for another time! Wink.)

The really neat thing about using gycerin for your lye solution is that it speeds up dilution. I usually allow 3-4 hours for dilution. I do other stuff around the kitchen while waiting for it to do its thing. NOTE: if a film forms on the top, that is a good sign that your LS has just passed the optimum ratio of soap to water. Add more water, a little at a time, and stir until the film dissipates. Allow to cool in the pot. If no film forms, you're ready to pour into a jug and sequester 2 weeks.


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Jun 25, 2017)

I did another dilution last night without mica, and I wanted to give you one more pic to show the cloudiness from the butter and the light color from the safflower.  I don't really consider the cloudiness a flaw, considering how easy this soap is to make and dilute and how nice it is.  You were all correct about the mica though (of course). It does fall out, but very very slowly enough that I'm going to continue using small amounts for the color and shimmer effect.

Anyway, here's the pic in front of some stark white kitchen canisters.


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Jun 25, 2017)

The above are all diluted 44% soap to 56% water and are the consistency of honey.  I had a small amount left in the container that wouldn't fill a pump so I experimented with adding more water.   At 35% soap and 65% water, it is about the consistency of Dawn, but still stable.  I stopped there because I don't think I'd want anything thinner, but the dilution range is relatively wide with this recipe.

I also experimented with adding some sugar this time, for bubbles, and I won't do that again.  Bubbles ARE increased and everything is fine once your hands are completely dry - no stickiness.  But in the in-between time when your hands are still damp after towel drying, the sugar makes a weird, slightly unpleasant feeling.


----------



## SunRiseArts (Jun 25, 2017)

whoa those are great George.


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Aug 18, 2017)

Bump for Claudsoap.


----------

