# How soon to safely start selling?



## Gramma Judy (Sep 17, 2009)

I have been making soap for about six months.  I feel confident in some of my recipes.  After the first of the year, I will be looking into inusrance and business forms/licenses and such.  How long was it before most of you started selling.  I see another relatively new soaper on this forum, already has an etsy site and according to her postings she has only been making soap about six weeks.  Don't mean to stir any pots other than soap pots.


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## SilverMaple (Sep 17, 2009)

I've been making soaps for about 3 years.  I just recently started selling, primarily to friends and family although I have done a few farmers' markets and craft fairs and I'm starting to get a following, and a local store has asked me to place some items in their gift section.

I want to see how recipes, FO's, and colorants work/perform/look 8-12 months or longer after the soap is made, hence the reason it took me awhile to get started.  There were some recipes that I loved at 5 months, and they just didn't age well.  I'm glad that happened in my cabinet instead of on a customer's shelf.


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## DottieF. (Sep 17, 2009)

Time is not always the only factor. One could have been making soap for a couple years and still not be ready if you only make a couple small batches a week. When I first started soaping (11 yrs. ago) I made several batches nearly everyday for a year before I started to sell. I gave a way a ton of soap to friends and family and it was at their insistance that I started selling.


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## Saltysteele (Sep 17, 2009)

..............


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## Saltysteele (Sep 17, 2009)

.................


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## Deda (Sep 17, 2009)

Tread carefully, everyone.  This thread WILL NOT turn into a train wreck.

Saltysteele, all you need to do is read back through _a few thousand posts_ and you'll understand why we urge caution when you decide to start selling.

It's not rocket science, but it is science.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2009)

I don't think there is a mandatory set time to wait .You need to make sure your recipe is good , that it doesn't get DOS ( you would not know this in 6 weeks ) .You need to thoroughly test it . I know how people feel that sell very soon , it's soap , friends say it nice etc , BUT they do not realize how much your soap making skills improve over time . Truly they do !
 Wait until they get insurance ( if they do ) they asked me questions that I couldn't believe , if I told them I had been making it 6 weeks , I am pretty sure I would not have gotten insurance ( in Canada ) . You don't know enough in 6 weeks to be able to answer 1/4 of the questions .
 While I agree 6 weeks is not enough time by  along shot , it is someone's personal choice . I truly believe someone that sells within 6 weeks is mostly hurting themselves . Selling handmade soap is different than sewing an apron for sale or crocheting a bib to sell , very different .


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## JenniferSews (Sep 17, 2009)

SaltySteele, I haven't been soaping very long (since July) and do not intend to sell.  However I will say that the soap I thought was GREAT in July isn't that fantastic now that I've learned more.  I've been active on this forum and read almost everything.  I've also read just about every book I can get my hands on and am horrified at the misinformation in _every_ book I've read.  Considering my small amount of experience, it makes me think twice that people who are the "experts" and have been soaping for decades still don't really know or understand the process entirely.  The second batch I made from a book still isn't solid and already has DOS after 2 months.  The author supposedly sold from that recipe for years!

Anyway I've built businesses from my hobby before, and it is possible.  It can be thrilling and fun as well.  I sold my first business last year after surpassing 6 figures in sales.  But I look back at what I was selling at the beginning and cringe.  My skills improved immensely over the first year.  I don't think anyone is being elitist.  Soap making IS just basic chemistry.  But there's no good textbook like there is for chemistry.  A lot can still go wrong and I've seen lots of posts from seasoned soapers who's recipes suddenly go wacky for no reason they can determine.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, because I don't mean it to be cruel or disheartening.  Just another side of the story, take it for what it's worth.  Or just ignore it completely, I don't mind.


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## Saltysteele (Sep 17, 2009)

...................


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## dagmar88 (Sep 18, 2009)

http://soapmakingforum.com/forum/viewto ... ight=guide


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## carillon (Sep 18, 2009)

Some people are never ready to sell.  Some people may lack any or all of the following factors--lack of confidence, creativity, knowledge, motivation, and business sense.  When you lack those you can't expect to be very successful at any venture.

There isn't a soapmaking forum that exists where this question doesn't get asked over and over again.  It seems that people want to call out someone who they believe has jumped the gun with selling their wares much too soon.  Ultimately, what's the point in asking the question?  The people who are selling their stuff without taking the time to learn the craft or develop a plan quickly find out their dream of selling wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

If you are new to this, you will become tired of the question after a while, and see that it's just not worth even caring what others choose to do.  It's best to focus on your own ability and not someone else's.


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## Bnky (Sep 18, 2009)

I have been making soaps for almost a year, and have made numerous batches.  Had I started selling immediately, my buyers would not have purchased my best products.  I continuously improve through trial and error.  Everyone who has tried my soaps say I should start selling (I have one salon and one store who will carry them), but I want to keep experimenting until I know that I have formulated recipes that are the very, very best...including scents.  EO blends can be exceptional or not (I do not use fo).  I want the entire soap to be exceptional from the day it is cured until the day my customer is done using it (within reason of course; if they wait years I imagine the scent may fade).  There are alot of excellent soapmakers out there...and I want to be known as one of them.  However, I am a perfectionist, so no matter what I do, I always feel it's not good enough until it's perfect, so I may not be the one to give advise here!


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2009)

Just thought I'd jump in since y'all are probably referring to me...the newbie who already set up an Etsy shop. I actually haven't sold any of my soaps yet, just given to family and friends for testing. I set up my shop the other day when I had some free time. I have another etsy shop where I sell my bags, so I thought I'd get it started while I had the time to do it.  
The shipping costs are so high that I doubt I'll be doing much selling on Etsy till I figure out how to overcome that issue. Who wants to buy a bar of soap and then pay $8.50 for shipping? Not gonna happen. So all of you who are jumping all over getting excited...don't panic. 

I'll probably sell a few soaps at some small craft fairs I'm doing this fall, nothing big-just community and schools. I'm doing the legal stuff and getting the forms done for the gov't as necessary. I will have my labelling in place and follow the rules for that. 
I don't profess to know all I would need to know to run a major soapmaking company. That's not my plan. I'm quite happy in my work and make a great salary as an RN. I don't want a big soap business, but it would be fun to be able to share some of my soaps and let some other people enjoy them and maybe subsidize my hobby a bit.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2009)

juicybath said:
			
		

> Who wants to buy a bar of soap and then pay $8.50 for shipping? Not gonna happen.



Check into the post office's "flat rate shipping." They have 4 box sizes, as
much as you can put in for a flat rate. First one goes for $4.80 (holds about 2 bars of soap). If you set up an online account at the PO, you get a cheaper
rate.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2009)

thanks CF. I have a VentureOne account already, but haven't done much selling for a while so I'm not up on the current rates. Will have to check it out again.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2009)

juicybath said:
			
		

> Just thought I'd jump in since y'all are probably referring to me...the newbie who already set up an Etsy shop. I actually haven't sold any of my soaps yet, just given to family and friends for testing. I set up my shop the other day when I had some free time. I have another etsy shop where I sell my bags, so I thought I'd get it started while I had the time to do it.
> The shipping costs are so high that I doubt I'll be doing much selling on Etsy till I figure out how to overcome that issue. Who wants to buy a bar of soap and then pay $8.50 for shipping? Not gonna happen. So all of you who are jumping all over getting excited...don't panic.
> 
> I'll probably sell a few soaps at some small craft fairs I'm doing this fall, nothing big-just community and schools. I'm doing the legal stuff and getting the forms done for the gov't as necessary. I will have my labelling in place and follow the rules for that.
> I don't profess to know all I would need to know to run a major soapmaking company. That's not my plan. I'm quite happy in my work and make a great salary as an RN. I don't want a big soap business, but it would be fun to be able to share some of my soaps and let some other people enjoy them and maybe subsidize my hobby a bit.




Juicy, I dont think they were talking about you. It could have been me or any number of others who are selling within a year of making their first soaps. I sell what I believe to be VERY good products. I have been selling my m/p and bath bombs in my store for quite some time now. I now sell cphp because I have faith in the soaps and have had my family and friends testing them out and giving me honest feedback. I can tell you that without this forum I probably would not be selling cphp at this time. I have learned everything about soaping here. Just make sure your insurance is in line and your labels are legal and that your products are quality and safe.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2009)

Deda said:
			
		

> Tread carefully, everyone.  This thread WILL NOT turn into a train wreck.
> 
> Saltysteele, all you need to do is read back through _a few thousand posts_ and you'll understand why we urge caution when you decide to start selling.
> 
> It's not rocket science, but it is science.




What does this post mean? WILL NOT turn into a train wreck??? I dont get it.


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## Saltysteele (Sep 19, 2009)

bc, it was in reference to my post, with which i'll let sleeping dogs lie.


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## dagmar88 (Sep 20, 2009)

:wink: Deda was trying to avoid this topic turning into drama   So 'This thread will not turn into a train wreck' was a warning to make sure history would not repeat...
Juicybath, this really hadn't got anything to do with you. Although I do not encourage selling before you're ready.


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## Bnky (Sep 20, 2009)

Juicybath & BC, I hope I didn't offend either of you or anyone else.  I certainly did not in anyway mean to dicourage others from selling their products (I wish everyone much success...including me).  I am just commenting based on my experiences, to assist others who may be unsure.  I know my first number of batches were beautiful soaps in appearance and the recipes were from books I have read.  Nonetheless, as I have experimented over the months, I have formulated much better recipes.  The creaminess, bubbles, and the way the first batches left my skin is no comparison to my current batches.  However, everyone does say they love all of them...so at least I haven't had any bad reviews from any of my batches and others may be starting with better recipes then I did.  Juicybath, you are right about the shipping costs.  One of the reasons I started making soap was because the last time I ordered three bars it cost $28 with shipping; that was when I decided to begin making soap.  I think Castor is right, USPS website may be able to save you $ on that.


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2009)

Bnky, no offense taken. Thank you for your concern, truly.


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## artisan soaps (Sep 21, 2009)

..


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## Deda (Sep 21, 2009)

bconrade884 said:
			
		

> Deda said:
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It means just that.  
_
From the wiki -
The term "train wreck" is also used metaphorically to describe something disastrous yet inevitable, or distasteful yet morbidly fascinating. "You don't want to stare, but you just can't look away" is a common summary of this phenomenon._


Personally, I wouldn't sell soap after such a short time.

However, that said, it's up to the individual to do what they will.  We're all adults, if you want to sell soap, then sell soap.  

Keep in mind that you enter a whole new realm when you _ask advice_.  You'll get answers you might not like.


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2009)

juicybath said:
			
		

> Just thought I'd jump in since y'all are probably referring to me...the newbie who already set up an Etsy shop. I actually haven't sold any of my soaps yet, just given to family and friends for testing. I set up my shop the other day when I had some free time. I have another etsy shop where I sell my bags, so I thought I'd get it started while I had the time to do it.
> The shipping costs are so high that I doubt I'll be doing much selling on Etsy till I figure out how to overcome that issue. Who wants to buy a bar of soap and then pay $8.50 for shipping? Not gonna happen. So all of you who are jumping all over getting excited...don't panic.
> 
> I'll probably sell a few soaps at some small craft fairs I'm doing this fall, nothing big-just community and schools. I'm doing the legal stuff and getting the forms done for the gov't as necessary. I will have my labelling in place and follow the rules for that.
> I don't profess to know all I would need to know to run a major soapmaking company. That's not my plan. I'm quite happy in my work and make a great salary as an RN. I don't want a big soap business, but it would be fun to be able to share some of my soaps and let some other people enjoy them and maybe subsidize my hobby a bit.





Well said Juicy, you do what is good for YOU. We are all adults and we so far have acted accordingly. It is an individual choice to sell or not and when that person deems themselves ready to sell. There are no rules set in stone by the soap Gods. At least, not that I know of. LMAO


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## Pug Mom (Sep 21, 2009)

This forum has actually scared me away from ever selling my soaps...  My friends, family and co workers are begging me to sell it, but I refuse.  I don't want anyone owning my house.  Insurance scares me, it only goes so far.  My sister's friend has offered money for my soap, I won't even do that...So...I will continue to make it and give it to my friends and family.  If you think you are ready, try it, see what happens.  If you have had great feedback from everyone that you give your soap to, you might be ready.


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2009)

See that is not what should be happening. You should not be scared to purchase insurance, make a great product and market it. Fear is no good, and no one should be fearful to follow their dreams. I am sorry pug that your scared now, that is a shame. :cry:


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2009)

I agree. Don't let an internet forum scare you! Just learn all you can and take the appropriate steps to protect youself and do the best job you can. Nobody said you need a chemistry degree to make soaps safely. Common sense people


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2009)

I've been making soap for almost 9 months and I could start selling now however, I'm smarter than that. I plan to carry on experimenting for a bit. I already have my safety assessments with 9 bases certified (not prone to dos). Of course I have my fave one. Anyway, the benefit of having the safety assessments is being able to look through and see exactly how much of what can be used and there are lists of things which I still need to play with


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## kittywings (Sep 21, 2009)

I BELIEVE Deda was referring especially to a rather heated discussion with a former forum member a little while ago that stemmed from said member selling dos prone soaps/not informing customers of her ingredients (i.e. lard soap to vegetarians) to people in her community after only having made a few batches.

  8)


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## Pug Mom (Sep 21, 2009)

bconrade884 said:
			
		

> See that is not what should be happening. You should not be scared to purchase insurance, make a great product and market it. Fear is no good, and no one should be fearful to follow their dreams. I am sorry pug that your scared now, that is a shame. :cry:



I guess I have just decided it is just not worth it.  I am not a risk taker.  And I like my house!!


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## Gramma Judy (Sep 21, 2009)

artisan soaps said:
			
		

> dagmar88 said:
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I asked this question originally because I am considering selling, but not quite yet.  I have figured out 2-3 good base recipes with an additional 2-3 'special' ones using mango butter, avocado and cocoa butter.  I printed Dagmar's suggestions when it was originally posted. It is getting worn and I have read and reread it.  I know my soap I make now is much better than I did 6 months ago.  I pay attention to the quality numbers and by adding different ingredients have also added to the soap qualities above and beyond the numbers that calculators have given.  My concerns have been with the soap after 6 months, 9 months, etc.  DOS, scent, lather after established amounts of time.  I am anal about this.  I probably overthink everything.  I have been sending soap out with friends and family with a full page form for them to full out.  I want to know how they feel about every aspect of the soap.  Color, scent, size, drying, irritating, if the color is left on facecloth.  It is probably 25-30 questionaire I have them fill out.  But, I only want brutally honest answers.  I tell them it will not hurt my feelings.  If they won't give honest answers then I don't want them testing my soap.  I have always been sensitive to certain lotions, soaps and creams so I do not want to sell something that could also create this problem for a potential customer.  Even though I also know others also have the same sensitivities.  So a smart customer will read the ingredients and not purchase something they  know they will react to.  I was not finger pointing and to each his own,  I just know I am not quite ready yet and neither is my soap.


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## dagmar88 (Sep 21, 2009)

I'm so sorry this topic was kinda taken away from you. In the end; you are really the only person who can judge how far into the process you are. But you sure sound like a very responsible lady and I'm sure you'll make it work   Good luck!


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2009)

Pug Mom said:
			
		

> I guess I have just decided it is just not worth it.  I am not a risk taker.  And I like my house!!



Well, not to make you more paranoid, but I was wondering:
What's the difference in selling soap and giving it away?
If someone is gonna sue ya, they're gonna sue ya...either way.


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## Deda (Sep 21, 2009)

CastorFan said:
			
		

> Pug Mom said:
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If someone sues you for giving a gift then, a) your home owners policy would cover you and b) you have rotten friends.

If you sell your soap and someone sues you then your HO insurance won't cover you.  You would have to have a separate liability insurance in place.  If you are selling and don't have the necessary insurance then ...  _I was going to say you'd be an idiot, but I'll play nice incase someone has a really good reason why you would be in business with no insurance.  _

Tell my why you would be selling and not have an insurance policy that specifically covers your handmade soaps?


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## Healinya (Sep 21, 2009)

Gramma - you are going at a great pace, and you are very professional in your testing. You will move along fast. I would be there already if I took as good notes the first year that you are already doing. Just save a bar of every batch.

Side note - what ever happened to "let the buyer beware"?? lol I will not let myself get worried about people sueing over a bar of soap. I will not worry because I will have proper labels, and will trust that my product will not harm anyone who took the time to read the ingredients. If someone wants to sue someone - they will more likely slip in a supermarket than go after work at home mom. Just my opinion


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## artisan soaps (Sep 21, 2009)

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## Bnky (Sep 21, 2009)

Gramma Judy, I think your questionaire is a great idea!  I always ask friends and family for their opionions, but don't really get as much detail as I would like.


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## JenniferSews (Sep 21, 2009)

Deda said:
			
		

> If you sell your soap and someone sues you then your HO insurance won't cover you.  You would have to have a separate liability insurance in place.  If you are selling and don't have the necessary insurance then ...  _I was going to say you'd be an idiot, but I'll play nice incase someone has a really good reason why you would be in business with no insurance.  _
> 
> Tell my why you would be selling and not have an insurance policy that specifically covers your handmade soaps?



From my understanding and experience (I'm no lawyer though, and don't play one on tv   ) you can set up your business as an LLC.  In that case someone can sue your business and take all it's profits and assets.  However if you are a smaller company, you probably don't have the assets to make it a big deal to anyone.  Your personal property, accounts, retirement, etc is all out of reach of any lawsuit.


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## kittywings (Sep 22, 2009)

JenniferSews said:
			
		

> Deda said:
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Luckily one of my good friends is a lawyer (who just happens to specialize in this kind of stuff) and for the price of a Starbucks coffee she gave me a bunch of legal advice and she said LLC was the way to go for exactly those reasons.


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## Deda (Sep 22, 2009)

And you would be comfortable NOT HAVING INSURANCE?  LLC or not?

If you want to sell to bigger wholesale accounts, chain health food stores, most larger craft/expos - like Natural Products East/West, you have to make them an additional insured on your policy.  Even my little 3000 person a weekend farmers market REQUIRES an Additionally Insured Rider.

I suppose that Etsy doesn't have a policy, but then I don't sell on Etsy.


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## Bnky (Sep 22, 2009)

The attorney I spoke to explained the same thing as Kittywing's friend, to form an LLC to protect your own property. (Your LLC could still be sued; but your personally not at risk).  In addition, purchase liability nsurance to protect your customer (for serious allergic reaction or whatever).  I would suggest both, which is easy to do.    Chances are you may never need either, but it offers security for seller and buyer.


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## TheSoapyEwe (Sep 22, 2009)

I have an LLC and Insurance and wouldn't even consider selling without both.


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## JenniferSews (Sep 22, 2009)

Deda said:
			
		

> And you would be comfortable NOT HAVING INSURANCE?  LLC or not?



Selling 5 or 10 bars a month on a site like Etsy, and not even covering the cost of insurance?  Sure I would.  On a large scale, no.  As you pointed out some venues require insurance.  But everyone is different and every business model is different.  I've never had insurance for any of my home based businesses.  Our accountant suggested it as protection for our losses in case we lost our inventory in a fire, etc.  Liability was never mentioned, even for children's products.  Honestly I can't imagine the odds of being sued over a bar of soap.


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## SilverMaple (Sep 22, 2009)

I was told an LLC was a waste of time, that it doesn't protect your personal property like it used to.

Not to mention it costs thousands to set up, and the taxes for it are much more complicated.  When I asked about it, they said it wasn't worth doing unless I was making over 50K per year from soap, which I'm not.

Maybe it's just a pain in my state and others have difference experiences, I don't know.


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## TheSoapyEwe (Sep 22, 2009)

SilverMaple said:
			
		

> I was told an LLC was a waste of time, that it doesn't protect your personal property like it used to.
> 
> Not to mention it costs thousands to set up, and the taxes for it are much more complicated.  When I asked about it, they said it wasn't worth doing unless I was making over 50K per year from soap, which I'm not.
> 
> Maybe it's just a pain in my state and others have difference experiences, I don't know.



In Missouri it cost me less than $200.00 to set it up and that's a one time fee.
It does keep my personal property safe from any liability suits. Only the business assets would be at risk and that's where the insurance comes in.
The taxes aren't any more complicated here than having a DBA business which I also have for another business I have.

It will vary from state to state I'm sure, however I strongly urge everyone to get a free consult from an attorney or a CPA before deciding not to carry an LLC or Insurance. 

I feel both are just a responsible part of being in business and clients do in my opinion feel more secure when their dealing with an insured, licensed business.


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## JenniferSews (Sep 22, 2009)

Mine cost me $35 to set up online, and took about 20 minutes on the CO Secretary of State website.  It varies by state though.  Taxes were complicated, but only because they were business taxes and it was a pain.  But the same would be true even with insurance.

Definately consult a CPA, always!


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## SilverMaple (Sep 22, 2009)

Two attorneys have told me the a sole proprietor as opposed to an LLC is the way to go.  I will have to check into it more.

And I agree about insurance-- I will not sell without it.


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2009)

SilverMaple said:
			
		

> I was told an LLC was a waste of time, that it doesn't protect your personal property like it used to.
> 
> Not to mention it costs thousands to set up, and the taxes for it are much more complicated.  When I asked about it, they said it wasn't worth doing unless I was making over 50K per year from soap, which I'm not.
> 
> Maybe it's just a pain in my state and others have difference experiences, I don't know.



My CPA said the same thing. Said that I would pay much more to have my taxes calculated because LLC complicates things so. Said that I could still get sued personally. I decided against LLC.


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## Tabitha (Sep 22, 2009)

> I was told an LLC was a waste of time, that it doesn't protect your personal property like it used to.
> 
> Not to mention it costs thousands to set up, and the taxes for it are much more complicated. When I asked about it, they said it wasn't worth doing unless I was making over 50K per year from soap, which I'm not.
> 
> Maybe it's just a pain in my state and others have difference experiences, I don't know.



My LLC cost me under 200 bucks. I do my own taxes, in under an hour, w/ turbo tax buisness. Sounds like a lot of people have been fed incorrect information.


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## TheSoapyEwe (Sep 22, 2009)

My LLC cost me under 200 bucks. I do my own taxes, in under an hour, w/ turbo tax buisness. Sounds like a lot of people have been fed incorrect information.[/quote]

I agree that others might be getting incorrect info on this, Starting my LLC was cheap, easy, and I also do most of the work for my account, adding up and organizing my supply costs, postage costs, festival entrance fees, mileage etc.
 I tally everything up at the end of each month so it's a breeze to hand over to her at the end of the year and it's just around $150.00 for my accountant to prepare for me. (and that's on both of my businesses)


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## Guest (Sep 22, 2009)

The topic is "How soon to start selling soap"
I've been making soap for 18 years and decided I'm going to sell it.
Starting at a farmer's market locally.


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## heyjude (Sep 22, 2009)

CastorFan said:
			
		

> The topic is "How soon to start selling soap"
> I've been making soap for 18 years and decided I'm going to sell it.
> Starting at a farmer's market locally.



Castorfan, your soap is beautiful and you really know your stuff. I'm sure you'll do really well at the farmer's market. Taking pictures to share is a given.   

Jude


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## kittywings (Sep 22, 2009)

Deda said:
			
		

> And you would be comfortable NOT HAVING INSURANCE?  LLC or not?
> 
> If you want to sell to bigger wholesale accounts, chain health food stores, most larger craft/expos - like Natural Products East/West, you have to make them an additional insured on your policy.  Even my little 3000 person a weekend farmers market REQUIRES an Additionally Insured Rider.
> 
> I suppose that Etsy doesn't have a policy, but then I don't sell on Etsy.



Yikes!  No way would I not have insurance, I was just talking about the LLC thing... which is $50 in AZ, one form, very easy.


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## BluebirdMama (Sep 29, 2009)

selling without liability insurance? Noooo way.


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