# Lotion looks like its separating



## Stinkinheather (Oct 21, 2018)

I made this lotion recipe today. I can't remember where I got the recipe, because I suck at taking notes LOL.
When I was finished and waited for it to cool it looks like its separating.
114oz distilled water
6.75oz shea butter
5.15oz almond oil
3.30oz emulsifying wax
1oz beeswax
1.85oz phenonip
.5oz lavender
I melted the wax and almond oil together then added the rest and blended. Then let cool and added lavender.
Does the age of the Phononip matter ?
So any suggestions on why its separating would be fab.
Thank you


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## DeeAnna (Oct 21, 2018)

That is a lot of water for a lotion; it's more like a "milk" at about 90% water. I've made light lotions with about 90% water, and they do tend to be trickier to emulsify.

It's also a very large recipe  -- have you made this formulation before? If this is someone else's recipe, can you provide a link to the original source?

Did you use the heat and hold technique? 

Did you use a stick blender? If so, how did you use it?

It's always good to use any preservative in a reasonable amount of time. But if you're thinking older phenonip might have caused the emulsion to fail ... I don't know that I've heard anyone complain about that kind of thing. I think there are other issues to check out before pointing the finger at the preservative.

OTOH, my notes say to use phenonip at 0.5 to 1.0% dosage rate. You're using closer to 1.7%. Is there a reason for that?


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## redhead1226 (Oct 21, 2018)

Stinkinheather said:


> I made this lotion recipe today. I can't remember where I got the recipe, because I suck at taking notes LOL.
> When I was finished and waited for it to cool it looks like its separating.
> 114oz distilled water
> 6.75oz shea butter
> ...



What did you use for Ewax?


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## Stinkinheather (Oct 21, 2018)

DeeAnna said:


> That is a lot of water for a lotion; it's more like a "milk" at about 90% water. I've made light lotions with about 90% water, and they do tend to be trickier to emulsify.
> 
> It's also a very large recipe  -- have you made this formulation before? If this is someone else's recipe, can you provide a link to the original source?
> 
> ...


I have never made lotion before and I dont have the link. I wrote this recipe down on paper. I dont know what the heat and hold technique is. I stick blend for a couple minutes. What is the typical amount of water used in a recipe ?



redhead1226 said:


> What did you use for Ewax?


E-Wax (cosmetic grade emulsifying wax) from soap craft. 
Is exactly what the label says. 
It's one of the products I got from someone selling out their supplies on kijiji.


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## redhead1226 (Oct 21, 2018)

Stinkinheather said:


> E-Wax (cosmetic grade emulsifying wax) from soap craft.
> Is exactly what the label says.
> It's one of the products I got from someone selling out their supplies on kijiji.



Do you know the brand?


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## Stinkinheather (Oct 21, 2018)

Nope. Like I said that is all the label says.


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## Obsidian (Oct 22, 2018)

Heat and hold is when you heat your oils and water (separately I might add) to 160 and keep the temp there for 20 minutes. This kills off bacteria and fungus.

You cool to around 120 then mix, at least thats the temp I mix at. I'll mix for a good 10 min or until the lotion is nice and thick.

You'll also want to make sure all your tools have been boiled or some how sterilized, same with your jars.

Here is a recipe I use. Its never failed me.

Water phase
13.4oz distilled water
.6oz glycerin

Oil phase - use what ever butters/oils you like
1.3oz Rice bran oil
1.3oz Almond oil
1oz Shea butter
.6 oz stearic acid
1oz ewax

Cool down
.2oz fragrance
.2oz preservative 
.4oz Dimethicone - Leave this out if you want

This is another similar recipe, its a bit lighter
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s216...9145fa09fd33/d627ec776ef375cfaaafbf0afb000400


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## cmzaha (Oct 22, 2018)

It is very hard to keep a 90% water lotion from separating, and not all emulsifiers are stable in high percentage liquid formulas. You need to know your emulsifier and other ingredients are going to work with your preservative of choice. Please consider making small batches to save yourself grief and ingredient waste


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## DeeAnna (Oct 22, 2018)

If you are a newbie to lotion making -- or if you are using a new recipe from any source, including your own recipe -- make SMALL batches until you know the formulation is stable and you know you actually like the product.

I normally make 200 grams (about 7 ounces) for a trial batch, to give you some idea. A 400 gram batch (about 14 ounces, less than a pint) of lotion will last me for months! A 130 ounce batch is HUGE for a hobbyist -- about 1 gallon! -- and that is especially true for a person new to lotion making.

If you scale up from a small batch to one as large as what you tried to make, you will have issues with getting sufficient mixing. A stick blender is very effective at smaller batches -- maybe up to 30 ounces or so -- but may not provide intense enough mixing for somewhat larger batches unless you adjust your technique. You might have to mix a larger batch for longer with a stick blender, for example. You may also have to use a differently shaped container (relatively tall and narrow) as well.

Heat is another important factor in proper emulsification. While the "heat and hold" method is not strictly needed for all emulsifiers, it's an effective technique to use if you're new to lotion making or if you only make lotion as a hobby. Even if you don't choose to do "heat and hold," you _still _need to heat the heated-phase ingredients to a sufficiently high temperature to get the most stable emulsification. If you try to make lotion with room temp ingredients, you're asking for trouble, especially with larger batches and formulations that are more at risk for emulsion failure.

Honestly, I don't think you are going to be able to save this batch. If I were in your shoes, I'd study more about lotion making and try again with a much smaller batch, a proven recipe, and better technique.

I see in another thread that you mention selling soap at craft fairs. It's my guess that if you're making a gallon of lotion, you're intending to sell that too. I'll be blunt -- you are not remotely ready for that.


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## Stinkinheather (Oct 22, 2018)

Great thank you everyone for your responses.


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## shunt2011 (Oct 22, 2018)

One more recommendation, since you do sell your products it would be in your best interest to keep better notes.  If something happens to someone you better be able to provide all the information possible.  Insurance claims could get expensive if you don't have appropriate documentation.


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## Loralei (Oct 22, 2018)

I've been wanting to learn how to make lotions, and am wondering if anyone can recommend a good book (or a few) to read? Also, as I would prefer to stay away from parabens, I'm wondering if anyone can comment on the efficacy of Optiphen Plus in lotions, or recommend a different preservative?


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## DeeAnna (Oct 22, 2018)

@Loralei --

I recommend Anne Watson's book _Smart Lotionmaking_. Currently $4 US in Kindle format on Amazon -- https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078N5W9FM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Regarding preservatives -- I don't use Optiphen so cannot comment on that. Others do, but you are likely to get better responses if you start your own thread with an accurate subject line, rather than piggyback your question onto this one about lotion separation. The best general summary about preservatives in general that I know of is here: http://www.makingskincare.com/preservatives/


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## Stinkinheather (Oct 22, 2018)

shunt2011 said:


> One more recommendation, since you do sell your products it would be in your best interest to keep better notes.  If something happens to someone you better be able to provide all the information possible.  Insurance claims could get expensive if you don't have appropriate documentation.


True. If I do make a batch that I like and decide to sell I will have all the proper notes and documentation. Plus all the info on my software. Having notes on where I got a recipe from would ultimately be irrelevant due to the fact that I took "ownership" by then making and selling the product. 
I very much appreciate your concern.


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## Loralei (Oct 22, 2018)

DeeAnna said:


> @Loralei --
> 
> I recommend Anne Watson's book _Smart Lotionmaking_. Currently $4 US in Kindle format on Amazon -- https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078N5W9FM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
> 
> Regarding preservatives -- I don't use Optiphen so cannot comment on that. Others do, but you are likely to get better responses if you start your own thread with an accurate subject line, rather than piggyback your question onto this one about lotion separation. The best general summary about preservatives in general that I know of is here: http://www.makingskincare.com/preservatives/




Thank you, @deanna - I appreciate your response! I'm newish to the forum, and get a bit confused with threads- I once started a thread that was moved, because it was similar.. and thought adding my comment on preservatives would fit here, due to the o/p mentioning preservatives.. but I see it was just a question on age, not efficacy.  Cheers!


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## cmzaha (Oct 22, 2018)

Loralei said:


> I've been wanting to learn how to make lotions, and am wondering if anyone can recommend a good book (or a few) to read? Also, as I would prefer to stay away from parabens, I'm wondering if anyone can comment on the efficacy of Optiphen Plus in lotions, or recommend a different preservative?


Paraben preservative is still the safest to use, and we eat parabens in a lot of foods. Blueberries, if memory serves me correctly, contain parabens. What could happen using a failed lotion, remember you cannot see the bacteria and many times you cannot see the mold is going to possibly cause more problems than the parabens. There is a reason big companies use paraben based preservatives. 

That being said, other than a couple of formulas, that I do use Phenonip in, I use Optiphen and Gemall Plus together. Germall is not rated as high for mold control as Optipen. It took me well over a year before my ducks and testing were in line before I sold my lotions. The lotion I have sold for years is the one my daughter would make, and has  been tested numerous times. 

One trick I have is to have a container of frozen distilled water that I add in my lotion, which is also in an ice batch, to cool it down fast in order to add in my preservative, since I am making a gallon at a time it can take a long time to cool even in an ice batch. I also agree with DeeAnna about joining the makingskincare group. I think that is where I first read about reserving some of your batch water and adding it in cold to help cool down. I just took it one step further and freeze it.


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## Loralei (Oct 22, 2018)

@cmzaha Thank you for this input - I agree, much has to be done before selling. I am a massage therapist,  wanting to make a lotion that can be used on patients- my plan is to find a good recipe, then wait 6 months to see any changes. I know that I could use a batch well within 6 months.. it, if I made smaller batches, I could whip some up every few weeks.. still, I want to be absolutely sure that it is safe before it ever leaves my home!


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