# Vegan soap conundrum



## shella (Feb 4, 2019)

Hi Everyone 
I have a problem let me see if I have understood what I have learned about vegan soap.
There is no such thing. I have been researcing for days 

Palm oil .. Is made from plants. so if plant based where is it coming from.How to kill a forrest anyone. 

Steric Acid can be plant based or animal fat. All the recipes I have seen do not state which one it is.
Then I remembered something that kinda shocked me. I am into organic farming I have an Aquaponics system so no chemicals allowed. The food industry is allowed to use certain chemicals and is allowed to be called organic now some of these chemicals a full haz suite has to be worn ( whats wrong with this picture )
so does that hold true for companies making vegan soap?
I will have to experiment with the vegetable based steric acid as my dreams are being affected. Shows you how much i have read lol.
has anyone made soap from vegetable steric acid. a person how has deliberatly bought it as vegateble steric acid.


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## shunt2011 (Feb 4, 2019)

shella said:


> Hi Everyone
> I have a problem let me see if I have understood what I have learned about vegan soap.
> There is no such thing. I have been researcing for days
> 
> ...



There is such a thing as vegan soap. You can make soap with hard butters and oils.  Not sure what you are making such a statement.  I've not personally used stearic in CP but do when I make shave soap.    I make a soap that has neither palm or animal fat.  Mostly liquid oils and it's a nice gentle soap.  You can also make 100% Olive oil soap.   

Some here are also using soy wax in their soaps instead of palm or animal fat.    So, yes, it is possible.


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## aihrat (Feb 4, 2019)

If you trace back anything far enough and scrutinise their impact on the environment and on animals, you could argue that almost nothing in this world is vegan. It depends on your conception of what constitutes "vegan enough" for the purposes of your veganism. There aren't any straightforward answers with regards to what is "truly vegan" or whether a soap product can be called 100% organic or whatever - you have to do the research and decide for yourself.

That being said, @shunt2011 is right. In practice, you can make good soap formulations without palm oil or animal fat. There is no such thing as a "must have" oil for making soap.

To add to what they said, you can also formulate a palm-free recipe with shea butter, mango butter, kokum butter and/or cocoa butter, all of which are rich in stearic acid.


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## shella (Feb 4, 2019)

Thank you for your quick response I was stating my experience in trying to find a vegan soap recipe. I am glad that you found a way to make vegan soap as this post is in the beginner's section I thought you might have realized and taken that into account that my experience in finding out my question was not easy. Thank you for sending in the right direction.



shunt2011 said:


> There is such a thing as vegan soap. You can make soap with hard butters and oils.  Not sure what you are making such a statement.  I've not personally used stearic in CP but do when I make shave soap.    I make a soap that has neither palm or animal fat.  Mostly liquid oils and it's a nice gentle soap.  You can also make 100% Olive oil soap.
> 
> Some here are also using soy wax in their soaps instead of palm or animal fat.    So, yes, it is possible.


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## dixiedragon (Feb 4, 2019)

I think you're stretching the definition of vegan way too far. Also, vegan does not equal low impact. It simply means that the product contains no animal products. 

Anything that we consume is going to have an impact on the environment. 

Also, chemical does not equal bad or unnatural. Some chemicals certainly are. But many things found in nature qualify as chemicals.

As to the chemicals being used on organic produce that require a hazmat suit - what are they? I can think of several options. For example, maybe they are using lime sulfur. Very natural, very safe for plants and the environment. However, it can be irritating to human skin, so if a person is spraying plants for 8 hrs, a hazmat suit might make sense. Plus it stains clothing and smells pretty strongly. 

And BTW, arsenic and radiation are totally natural. 

https://homeguides.sfgate.com/spraying-lime-sulfur-grapevines-27819.html
https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@[email protected]+5826


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## geniash (Feb 4, 2019)

To most people vegan soap means no animal fat or animal derived products are used. With that said, palm oil is vegan. Most palm oil is harvested via deforestation, however one can acquire sustainably harvested palm oil. You are not required to add stearic acid to the soap. Again, define what you are after (or what your customers are after) and do your research. I carry small selection of soaps made with sustainably harvested palm oil, however they have higher price tag.


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## shunt2011 (Feb 4, 2019)

shella said:


> Thank you for your quick response I was stating my experience in trying to find a vegan soap recipe. I am glad that you found a way to make vegan soap as this post is in the beginner's section I thought you might have realized and taken that into account that my experience in finding out my question was not easy. Thank you for sending in the right direction.



If you go through some of the posts here you will find some suggestions and people have share their recipes freely.   Do a search for vegan and it will probably give you a good place to start.  I didn't realize you were posting in the beginners forum I did see that you've been here since 2013 so didn't know you were still a beginner.  Sorry!


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## penelopejane (Feb 4, 2019)

Quite a lot of vegans don’t like palm oil.
I think it’s stretching “vegan” a bit but they believe it impacts animals so they won’t use it.

I make soap and I don’t use palm oil or animal fats.
In fact all my soaps are vegan except the one I add honey to.


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## Hendejm (Feb 4, 2019)

I feel like there are so many controversial ingredients in soaps it’s hard to keep up with them. Whether it’s palm,soy, beeswax,honey, animal fat, cocoa butter, etc....it’s exausting. For me - I pick what’s important for me and ignore the rest. I try to purchase responsibly sourced products but I don’t go overboard. Some say they hate palm but we probably eat it several times a day (vegans included).  For me - I don’t like all the added chemicals in commercial “soap” products so I avoid them where possible. I do the same thing with the foods I eat. Everything else, to me, is just noise. That’s just my opinion and others are welcome to disagree.


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## lenarenee (Feb 4, 2019)

Hendejm said:


> I feel like there are so many controversial ingredients in soaps it’s hard to keep up with them. Whether it’s palm,soy, beeswax,honey, animal fat, cocoa butter, etc....it’s exausting. For me - I pick what’s important for me and ignore the rest. I try to purchase responsibly sourced products but I don’t go overboard. Some say they hate palm but we probably eat it several times a day (vegans included).  For me - I don’t like all the added chemicals in commercial “soap” products so I avoid them where possible. I do the same thing with the foods I eat. Everything else, to me, is just noise. That’s just my opinion and others are welcome to disagree.



I think that's the only reasonable way to do it.  After all - why make a product that you don't fully believe in??  Ok, yeah, people do it all the time - like those who buy items from Wal Mart to turn around and sell on Amazon for higher profit.  But geez - that's just making a buck. Making something with your hands and eventually getting skilled enough at it to call it Artisan....there's no satisfaction in it unless you're proud of it!!

(don't get me started on people calling themselves artisans simply because they make something by hand but don't have the long term experience that sets them apart from the arts & crafts department!)


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## penelopejane (Feb 4, 2019)

Hendejm said:


> I feel like there are so many controversial ingredients in soaps it’s hard to keep up with them. Whether it’s palm,soy, beeswax,honey, animal fat, cocoa butter, etc....it’s exausting. For me - I pick what’s important for me and ignore the rest. I try to purchase responsibly sourced products but I don’t go overboard. Some say they hate palm but we probably eat it several times a day (vegans included).  For me - I don’t like all the added chemicals in commercial “soap” products so I avoid them where possible. I do the same thing with the foods I eat. Everything else, to me, is just noise. That’s just my opinion and others are welcome to disagree.


Yes you have to have a product you fully believe in.  Make it for yourself and others will come.

I do not eat palm in any of my food or use it in any products I buy or make.


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## Dean (Feb 4, 2019)

shella said:


> Hi Everyone
> I have a problem let me see if I have understood what I have learned about vegan soap.
> There is no such thing. I have been researcing for days
> 
> ...



Soy wax is a palm alternative that is almost all veg stearic acid.  Let me kno if u want a simple recipie.


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## KiwiMoose (Feb 5, 2019)

I make only vegan, palm free soap, and I use soy wax at 20%
You might be misunderstanding stearic acid - although you can buy it as a stand-alone ingredient, some oils have a high stearic acid component (soy wax for example).  This is just one of the fatty acids you need to make up a nice soap. Different oils will bring different properties to a soap.  Again, happy to share a recipe if you wish.


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## Dawni (Feb 5, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> Quite a lot of vegans don’t like palm oil.
> I think it’s stretching “vegan” a bit but they believe it impacts animals so they won’t use it.


I agree. I've met some of those, and in my very humble personal opinion I think it's slightly hypocritical because technically, everything we do impacts animals. 

Now unless you go foraging for your plant food and eat them all raw, find a way to bathe and use the toilet where your "dirty" water isn't going anywhere there are animals, and live somewhere that has no footprint whatsoever, then everything you do will have an impact on animals. Heck, I'm sure even the stuff I mentioned above probably kills a few ants and a couple of frogs.. so what? They don't count?

Will they not use soy wax? There's probably some animal that got displaced from the land where the soy is planted. How about olive oil? All those rows n rows of trees probably killed off some animals too.

So, while I am greatly saddened by the impact of palm, I think it's become more of a trend, and a lot of the hype is because the orangutans are so darn cute, and probably look like someone's uncle or older sister more than a frog would (but some might argue.....) 

Not sure if my rambling made sense lol but I also wanted to say, with the exception of the recipes that use yogurt to make HP batter fluid, and one beeswax and honey soap, most of my soaps are palm free and vegan as well. But not by choice. No animal products are used (which is gonna change soon btw) and I can't find palm oil. I use butters as hardeners, and I'm looking into soy wax as well.


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## dixiedragon (Feb 5, 2019)

Also, organic farming produces MUCH less food per acre. So, what's better - to go organic but to use up more habitat? Or to use pesticides and fertilizers, but leave more forest, prairie etc open for wildlife? In the US, the amount of land under cultivation is actually shrinking, returning to wild, while the amount of food we produce grows.


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## Clarice (Feb 5, 2019)

Wait, what?  Vegans don’t use honey?  I did not know that!  

A guy I used to work with married a Jain woman, and he said she will not eat any root vegetables as they believe in the process of growing the vegetables damage organisms in the ground 

I love learning new things!!


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## Dawni (Feb 5, 2019)

Clarice said:


> Wait, what?  Vegans don’t use honey?  I did not know that!
> 
> A guy I used to work with married a Jain woman, and he said she will not eat any root vegetables as they believe in the process of growing the vegetables damage organisms in the ground
> 
> I love learning new things!!


Some do because they say it's not actually hurting the bees. Some don't because they say it does.

Milk products are another one. I've heard an argument in which someone stated "harvesting" the milk leaves none, or very less, for the calves and that the machines actually hurt. Some don't go that far.

I know about Jains.. 

But I have a question. Won't planting basically anything damage the organisms? Or is it that the root crops do more damage than the others?


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## Misschief (Feb 5, 2019)

I've had customers ask about vegan soap. I do have a couple that are vegetable oil based but I do not call them vegan; I call them vegetarian-friendly. Most have been fine with that.


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## amd (Feb 5, 2019)

dixiedragon said:


> In the US, the amount of land under cultivation is actually shrinking, returning to wild, while the amount of food we produce grows.



Not the case in SD. Our farmers are actually making more farmland by tearing out shelter belts, removing old homesteads (or in some cases, buying other farm land with houses and then selling the houses to be moved off property), and farming every inch to the ditch.


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## Clarice (Feb 5, 2019)

Dawni said:


> But I have a question. Won't planting basically anything damage the organisms? Or is it that the root crops do more damage than the others?



 Right?  That was precisely my Q. 

Wouldn’t anything that grows in soil theoretically damage these organisms?   

Conundrums abound


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## IrishLass (Feb 5, 2019)

Lots of organisms _thrive_ on roots.....such as the pearlscale organism, for example. We've had battles with them in our front lawn. They eat the roots of our grass and leave unsightly bare, brown areas.


IrishLass


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## earlene (Feb 5, 2019)

Well, it seems to me that some folks may be expanding the definition of 'vegan' beyond what the dictionary says.  Not containing animal products is all it means to me because that is what the dictionary says.  I have eaten vegan (not currently, though) and if I had to look at the possibility of eating food that met all those extended criteria, I am sure I would have starved to death.

I am a vegetarian going on 20 years now, but was vegan for only about half of a year somewhere in the last decade.  It was hard work.  But it's not hard work making a vegan friendly soap.  Not IMO.


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## SaltedFig (Feb 5, 2019)

dixiedragon said:


> Also, organic farming produces MUCH less food per acre. So, what's better - to go organic but to use up more habitat? Or to use pesticides and fertilizers, but leave more forest, prairie etc open for wildlife? In the US, the amount of land under cultivation is actually shrinking, returning to wild, while the amount of food we produce grows.



That's not quite true ... or rather, this is changing 

Hydroponics and Aquaponics are two very compact, stackable systems.

Organic certification is becoming available for these systems (this hasn't always been the case - up until recently organic also meant soil based).
https://www.urbangreenfarms.com.au/...s-Hydroponics-Certified-Organics-in-Australia

You might want to check this out 
http://www.modularfarms.com.au/

To my way of thinking, have a sustainable source for as much of our consumables as possible makes massive sense.
I don't believe we need poisons and synthetic fertilizers to achieve that 

The world human population increased while I was typing this ...


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## IrishLass (Feb 5, 2019)

SaltedFig said:


> That's not quite true ... or rather, this is changing
> 
> Hydroponics and Aquaponics are two very compact, stackable systems.



Here here! Y'all know how much I love my hydro/aeroponic Tower Garden.  My sis has a mini-farm going on with several of them in her back yard. More and more folks are starting to catch on and are building vertical hydro-farms here in the US. I've even heard of restaurants building them on their roofs, and I hear of some grocery stores doing the same. I have tomatoes coming out my ears right now off of my one and only Tower. I need to start throwing some of them in the freezer to set aside for sauce-making.


IrishLass


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## Hendejm (Feb 5, 2019)

Ok - so taken to the extreme here I know....BUT......

It is known that rats and birds and their feces ends up in our food supply....wine for example. It has been found that wine grapes that are used to press for wine contain rats and birds along with their droppings. The same is said to be true of most/all grains commercially produced. I’m sure it also happens with olives and olive oil. So those vegans that like to drink wine may well be drinking bits of animals....just sayin!


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## Clarice (Feb 5, 2019)

I just threw up a little bit in the back of my throat


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## Hendejm (Feb 5, 2019)

Clarice said:


> I just threw up a little bit in the back of my throat


Haha!  But we are ok eating meat/poultry/fish. Go figure!


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## SaltedFig (Feb 5, 2019)

Personally, I think there is a distinct difference between accidental ingestion and deliberate consumption
(as gross as that accidental ingestion might be @Hendejm).


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## MGM (Feb 5, 2019)

Clarice said:


> Right?  That was precisely my Q.
> 
> Wouldn’t anything that grows in soil theoretically damage these organisms?
> 
> Conundrums abound


I think it's less about the microorganisms than it about eating the whole plant...when you harvest seeds or fruits from a tree or plant, the plant goes on living and reproducing. When you pull up a carrot or onion or potato, that plant's life is over.


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## earlene (Feb 5, 2019)

In the process of cleaning and processing foods, I would venture to guess that many of the aforementioned contaminants would be sufficiently removed or neutralized, except in cases of insufficient cleaning procedures.  By processing, I am referring to our own personal processes, not commercial processing, although that should be taken into account as well.


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## KiwiMoose (Feb 5, 2019)

MGM said:


> I think it's less about the microorganisms than it about eating the whole plant...when you harvest seeds or fruits from a tree or plant, the plant goes on living and reproducing. When you pull up a carrot or onion or potato, that plant's life is over.


Jains don't eat garlic either.
Sounds like that's the winning theory MGM.


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## penelopejane (Feb 6, 2019)

Dawni said:


> Some do because they say it's not actually hurting the bees. Some don't because they say it does.
> 
> Milk products are another one. I've heard an argument in which someone stated "harvesting" the milk leaves none, or very less, for the calves and that the machines actually hurt. Some don't go that far.



Are you confusing vegan and vegetarian?
I don’t know any vegan who will eat honey or dairy milk.

I’m allergic to palm so can’t eat it. I believe products do transfer across the skin barrier so I don’t use it in soap.


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## Dawni (Feb 6, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> Are you confusing vegan and vegetarian?
> I don’t know any vegan who will eat honey or dairy milk.
> 
> I’m allergic to palm so can’t eat it. I believe products do transfer across the skin barrier so I don’t use it in soap.


It's them who are confusing me lol
I'm serious though.
I've met several "vegans" who will not eat or use anything that requires killing of the animal.. Meat, leather, etc. but who don't mind ghee and honey and will use wool. I've met several others who won't touch anything from any animal, who step around ants, and happily chase away cockroaches for an hour instead of spraying them with insecticide. And there are the in betweeners. 

Of course, it could be semantics? And the way they understand the term? I guess the former fall under the label of "vegetarian" if we were to analyze what they're actually eating.

I've been in the middle of that kind of an argument though.. The "no, you're not vegan," "yes I am" one. To each his own I say.


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## shella (Feb 6, 2019)

Thank you all for your replies a lot of you understand where I am coming from. I have done my research that is why I asked the question. My understanding of stearic acid is that it can be plant based of animal fat based. I have people asking for soap made from no animal derivatives. I grow organic food and yes I do know that nature has chemicals. If you look up what can be classed as organic in the industry you will be surprised. 
I would like to thank all who have answered. I look forword to reading all your post.



earlene said:


> Well, it seems to me that some folks may be expanding the definition of 'vegan' beyond what the dictionary says.  Not containing animal products is all it means to me because that is what the dictionary says.  I have eaten vegan (not currently, though) and if I had to look at the possibility of eating food that met all those extended criteria, I am sure I would have starved to death.
> 
> I am a vegetarian going on 20 years now, but was vegan for only about half of a year somewhere in the last decade.  It was hard work.  But it's not hard work making a vegan friendly soap.  Not IMO.



That is what my question is about How can you make good soap without any animal fats or any animal derivatives. I am old school back in the day you did not have a wide range of different oils. Question if you dont use animal fat in making soap, can you call the product soap.



earlene said:


> Well, it seems to me that some folks may be expanding the definition of 'vegan' beyond what the dictionary says.  Not containing animal products is all it means to me because that is what the dictionary says.  I have eaten vegan (not currently, though) and if I had to look at the possibility of eating food that met all those extended criteria, I am sure I would have starved to death.
> 
> I am a vegetarian going on 20 years now, but was vegan for only about half of a year somewhere in the last decade.  It was hard work.  But it's not hard work making a vegan friendly soap.  Not IMO.



What do you mean by expanding the definition of vegan .. confused.... my understanding of vegan is no animal products what so ever. but people are using ingredients made from animals and calling it vegan I am not saying its done deliberately. It seams to me to be a case of a person hears that this product is vegan but does not do the research. JMO not set in stone



shella said:


> Hi Everyone
> I have a problem let me see if I have understood what I have learned about vegan soap.
> There is no such thing. I have been researcing for days
> 
> ...



Thanks yes I have been  member a few years but took a long break. I have only made one batch of soap and it was good i gave away the soap just to see if there was a demant ummmm yes i still get asked when are you going to make more soap 
health reasons stopped play bit am back. I did not wa\ist time i was researching  soap. My sense of humer is a bit out there    
its an aquired taste. lol

I have been asked if I can make vegan soap. No animal products what so ever. I have had replys from some wonderful people but still have nt awnsered one main question. People have said theymake vegan soap either coconut oil olive oile tec but does not give me a simple non vegan soap recipe yes I have lookes online but after looking up the ingredients turns out some form of animal fat is hiden in the ingrdiance. I am not looking forAaunt Jamima recipe  Just a simple one.
so far this is what I understantyou can use olive oil, coconut oil, butters. You can make some with just one oil. I will be trying that. Just need a little bit more info


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## Jill B Blasius (Feb 6, 2019)

> That is what my question is about How can you make good soap without any animal fats or any animal derivatives. I am old school back in the day you did not have a wide range of different oils. Question if you dont use animal fat in making soap, can you call the product soap.



Yes! It's still soap! Saponification of _oils_. All soaps, except for the ones with tallow, lard or goats milk (which I replace with coconut milk) qualify as vegan. Oo, EVOo, Co, Avo, Walnut, Sweet Almond oil, Hemp oil, Rice bran, Castor oil, Mango/Shea/Cocoa Butters, Sea salt, clays, essential oils can all be in your soap. You can create a lot of nice soaps with all that stuff! 

Try Zany's (faux) sea salt soap! (use the forum search) Olive oil, sea salt, baking soda, water and lye! (I snuck in some Castor oil too) Cures in weeks, not years. 

Don't use micas, fragrance oils or package the soap in a non-renewable product (plastic). Use a muslin bag. Use craft/recycled paper for the label. Not sure if they have a problem with certain ink thou!


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## shunt2011 (Feb 6, 2019)

Soap is soap regardless if it's Vegan or beast.   As for recipes, it depends on what oils/butters you have that you want to put into soap.  If you tell us what you have and want to use we can help.  You can also enter some of what's available to you into a lye calculator to make your own recipe. 

I make soap with lard and I make soap with Palm.  I have 2 that has neither.   I've not had anyone question micas or fragrance in my palm soaps.  So I'm thinking most don't care.  They like pretty soap.  I have vegan relatives and they use my pretty soap without issue.  So, I really think it varies on what the individual persons definition of Vegan/Vegetarian is.   I think they run the gamut.   I make what I want to make.  If someone wants to use or buy what I make and have,  that's fine with me.  But I'm not going to try to appeal to a small group of people.  I do most my shows up in farmland country.  They eat meat.   We have a huge Arabic community us so that's why I make palm based as well as lard based soaps.  Most say no to the pig and that's okay to me.  I make sure to point out which soaps are lard free.


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## penelopejane (Feb 6, 2019)

Actually a few people (including me) have given you strictly vegan recipes so far.

Pure Castile:
100% olive oil + salt 1tsp ppo

Lindy’s shampoo bar (not used on your hair despite the name)
Avocado Oil: 30%
Castor Oil: 10%
Olive Oil: 40%
Shea Butter: 10%
Soybean Oil: 10%
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/shampoo-bar-thanks-lindy.30946/

Knowing the availability of oils close to you you can:
Look in last 10 pages of the recipes forum: 
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/forums/soap-making-recipes-tutorials.24/

If you search the last 10 pages of new posts you will find 30 or so other strictly vegan recipes.


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## Alfa_Lazcares (Feb 6, 2019)

You can also make 100% coconut oil soaps with salt on them for a nice salt bar that is vegan. There are tons of recipes on here that wont use palm or animal products. Use the forum search instead of teacher google cause then you will end up in websites that may or may not know what they are talking about.


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## dibbles (Feb 6, 2019)

Dawni said:


> Heck, I'm sure even the stuff I mentioned above probably kills a few ants and a couple of frogs.. so what? They don't count?
> 
> So, while I am greatly saddened by the impact of palm, I think it's become more of a trend, and a lot of the hype is because the orangutans are so darn cute, and probably look like someone's uncle or older sister more than a frog would (but some might argue.....)



Ants and frogs and any displaced animals count, sure. But orangutans are endangered and I think that leads to a lot of the focus on that whole issue.


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## earlene (Feb 6, 2019)

When I grew


shella said:


> That is what my question is about How can you make good soap without any animal fats or any animal derivatives. I am old school back in the day you did not have a wide range of different oils. Question if you dont use animal fat in making soap, can you call the product soap.


 

Soap is made by combing a caustic with a fat.  According to the FDA it is "mainly composed of alkalai salts of fatty acids" (lye + fat).  Plenty of good soap is made without animal fats or animal derivatives.    Castile soap is old school and considered by many people all over the world to be very good soap.  No animal fats or animal derivatives are in olive oil. 




shella said:


> What do you mean by expanding the definition of vegan .. confused.... my understanding of vegan is no animal products what so ever. but people are using ingredients made from animals and calling it vegan I am not saying its done deliberately. It seams to me to be a case of a person hears that this product is vegan but does not do the research. JMO not set in stone



Okay, well what I mean is going beyond the simple definition of no animal products used and expanding it to the extreme where nothing that ever touched an animal can be used.  Strict veganism is what I mean by expanding the definition.  There is nothing wrong with a person choosing to incorporate all environmental concerns into their lifestyle choices, but I don't believe that every person who chooses to eat a vegan diet is as extreme as possible on this topic.  Maybe I am wrong about that, but I believe it has evolved to become more exclusive than in the past.  

I don't know what you mean by people using products that contain ingredients from animals and calling it vegan.  Please give an example so I know what we are talking about.

Incidentally, when I said I followed a vegan diet for about six months, what I meant to say was 'raw vegan' meaning no cooked foods.  Not the same as all vegans.  Just to clarify.  Nothing to do with the topic at hand.





shella said:


> I have been asked if I can make vegan soap. No animal products what so ever. I have had replys from some wonderful people but still have nt awnsered one main question. People have said theymake vegan soap either coconut oil olive oile tec but does not give me a simple non vegan soap recipe yes I have lookes online but after looking up the ingredients turns out some form of animal fat is hiden in the ingrdiance. I am not looking forAaunt Jamima recipe  Just a simple one.
> so far this is what I understantyou can use olive oil, coconut oil, butters. You can make some with just one oil. I will be trying that. Just need a little bit more info



What do you mean by animal fats hidden in the recipe? 

Simple vegan recipe:

100% olive oil + NaOH per your lye calculator.  That is a castile soap.  There is no animal fat in olive oil and none in lye.


Now to make sure you don't introduce animal products via your colorants, you'll have to watch out for some reds as not all are animal free.  But with a little research you can easily find colorants that are not made of animal products.  Or you can just make non-colored soap.


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## Dawni (Feb 6, 2019)

dibbles said:


> Ants and frogs and any displaced animals count, sure. But orangutans are endangered and I think that leads to a lot of the focus on that whole issue.


But what about the endangered animals and frogs? Lol just messing around (peace!) but I still really believe the focus on endangered orangutans has a lot to with the fact that they are orangutans and not ants or frogs..


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## dibbles (Feb 6, 2019)

Dawni said:


> But what about the endangered animals and frogs? Lol just messing around (peace!) but I still really believe the focus on endangered orangutans has a lot to with the fact that they are orangutans and not ants or frogs..


I agree @Dawni.


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## penelopejane (Feb 6, 2019)

Dawni said:


> But what about the endangered animals and frogs? Lol just messing around (peace!) but I still really believe the focus on endangered orangutans has a lot to with the fact that they are orangutans and not ants or frogs..


I don't know about frogs.  We have a green and golden bell frog that has habitat along the east coast of NSW. Not matter what the development there is always an uproar incase it interferes with the frog's habitat.  The road's department had to widen a highway through one area and they had to build a dam on the side of the highway for the frogs.  I don't think there are any green and golden frogs there except for the toy ones pinned on the fence in protest about the whole ordeal.


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## SaltedFig (Feb 7, 2019)

Frogs are a good choice as environmental ambassadors ... they are like canaries for coal mines.


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## Dawni (Feb 7, 2019)

Yey for the frogs! 

I could not think of any other just then so I mentioned ants and frogs but I'm sure you guys get what I meant.

That's good to know.. Something new i learned today.


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## MarnieSoapien (Feb 7, 2019)

earlene said:


> Now to make sure you don't introduce animal products via your colorants, you'll have to watch out for some reds as not all are animal free.  But with a little research you can easily find colorants that are not made of animal products.  Or you can just make non-colored soap.



 Clearly, I have some research to do! I vaguely remember something about beetles and the color red. I'm assuming clays and micas would be a safe bet?


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## greenbarnsoaps (Feb 7, 2019)

shunt2011 said:


> There is such a thing as vegan soap. You can make soap with hard butters and oils.  Not sure what you are making such a statement.  I've not personally used stearic in CP but do when I make shave soap.    I make a soap that has neither palm or animal fat.  Mostly liquid oils and it's a nice gentle soap.  You can also make 100% Olive oil soap.
> 
> Some here are also using soy wax in their soaps instead of palm or animal fat.    So, yes, it is possible.



Hi all. Chiming in with my two cents. I make primarily vegan soap. The standard definition of vegan in a nutritional sense is the non-consumption of animal or animal derivative products - this includes all dairy & honey as they are derivatives. Most people would refer to this diet as plant-based, though a plant-based diet often includes honey (no dairy, eggs, etc, just like vegan). As a lifestyle, which is how most people think of vegan, it includes not using or wearing products with animal or animal derivatives in them. Why someone is vegan makes a difference when you get deeper into it. There’s a lot of overlap and varying degrees of the following. Those focused on animal cruelty will try to stay away from products that harm animals - vivisection, habitat destruction, etc. Environmental vegans may be so due to the effects of animal product/derivative production on our earth. This would include staying away from product that is both animal based and may harm the environment in non-animal ways. Again, there is often quite an overlap. 

At the core, vegan soaps include plant-based only ingredients. Personally, knowing the underlying reason why most vegans are so, I also try to avoid use of product if I find out it is detrimental to the environment and/or an animal habitat. Therefore, I don’t use palm. (This isn’t against those who make vegan soap and do use it - again, vegan is at its core just a strict deference from consumption and or use of animal-based product or animal derivatives.) I personally don’t use palm as I also attempt to focus on environmental aspects of production. While the RSPO exists - though there are questions on adherence levels of members, I have found other oils that produce beautiful soaps without it at all.

I also don’t use stearic acid as I focus on cold-process soap and balms only. 

I hope that helps!



Clarice said:


> Right?  That was precisely my Q.
> 
> Wouldn’t anything that grows in soil theoretically damage these organisms?
> 
> Conundrums abound



Yes. Plants disrupt organisms and the growth of them can cause death to insects. Vegans attempt to mitigate as much suffering as possible to animals/insects, but it’s impossible to fully mitigate it. As with most things in life, it’s more of a large gray area than black-and-white/all-or-nothing.


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## shella (Feb 7, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> Actually a few people (including me) have given you strictly vegan recipes so far.
> 
> Pure Castile:
> 100% olive oil + salt 1tsp ppo
> ...



Thank I havent seen those will loook again



Jill B Blasius said:


> Yes! It's still soap! Saponification of _oils_. All soaps, except for the ones with tallow, lard or goats milk (which I replace with coconut milk) qualify as vegan. Oo, EVOo, Co, Avo, Walnut, Sweet Almond oil, Hemp oil, Rice bran, Castor oil, Mango/Shea/Cocoa Butters, Sea salt, clays, essential oils can all be in your soap. You can create a lot of nice soaps with all that stuff!
> 
> Try Zany's (faux) sea salt soap! (use the forum search) Olive oil, sea salt, baking soda, water and lye! (I snuck in some Castor oil too) Cures in weeks, not years.
> 
> Don't use micas, fragrance oils or package the soap in a non-renewable product (plastic). Use a muslin bag. Use craft/recycled paper for the label. Not sure if they have a problem with certain ink thou!


Thank you I understand this. Just to say. you made me laugh lol



Alfa_Lazcares said:


> You can also make 100% coconut oil soaps with salt on them for a nice salt bar that is vegan. There are tons of recipes on here that wont use palm or animal products. Use the forum search instead of teacher google cause then you will end up in websites that may or may not know what they are talking about.


Thatswhat happened to me thanks for the heads up. I totally forgot about this site to be honest.


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## Donee' (Feb 7, 2019)

I put a note on my label - natural oils used - and that seems to cover it
If I am using lard or tallow or anything then I label that clearly.
Some vegans tend to go completely overboard with the "save the planet thing" but then are happy to go and buy their seeds in plastic packets...........

If they really want to save the planet then they should be more outspoken about contraceptives.

But then again........ I am a Joel Salatin groupie


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## Dean (Feb 7, 2019)

MarnieSoapien said:


> Clearly, I have some research to do! I vaguely remember something about beetles and the color red. I'm assuming clays and micas would be a safe bet?



Red carmine is made from squashed bugs.


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## shella (Feb 7, 2019)

earlene said:


> When I grew
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Okey doky here I go...pepole calling soap vegan when it is not. not on purpose when listing a recipe online use palm oil, steric acid. but not saying which one is plant based or animal fat based.

People have asked me about no animal product soap when I asked what do you mean by that I was told (for soap making )
no animal  products I researched and asked them more questions it came apparent that this was not going to be easy.    
  I looked online for the ingredients and the recipes I found to me did not research the ingredients. It totalyconfused me. understand I totally forgot that I had signed into this site. Thats the angle I came into this.I needed help and I asked for it I now know whats what. and can move forward. I am not vegan just putting it out there. I live in the UK,  some information is a little different.


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## LilyJo (Feb 7, 2019)

shella said:


> Okey doky here I go...pepole calling soap vegan when it is not. not on purpose when listing a recipe online use palm oil, steric acid. but not saying which one is plant based or animal fat based.
> 
> People have asked me about no animal product soap when I asked what do you mean by that I was told (for soap making )
> no animal  products I researched and asked them more questions it came apparent that this was not going to be easy.
> I looked online for the ingredients and the recipes I found to me did not research the ingredients. It totalyconfused me. understand I totally forgot that I had signed into this site. Thats the angle I came into this.I needed help and I asked for it I now know whats what. and can move forward. I am not vegan just putting it out there. I live in the UK,  some information is a little different.




I'm not sure where you are looking but vegan soap is widely available as are the fats and oils needed to make it. Been making vegan soap for years and all our products are or have been made with plant based products, nothing derived from animals or from palm.


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## shunt2011 (Feb 7, 2019)

shella said:


> Okey doky here I go...pepole calling soap vegan when it is not. not on purpose when listing a recipe online use palm oil, steric acid. but not saying which one is plant based or animal fat based.
> 
> People have asked me about no animal product soap when I asked what do you mean by that I was told (for soap making )
> no animal  products I researched and asked them more questions it came apparent that this was not going to be easy.
> I looked online for the ingredients and the recipes I found to me did not research the ingredients. It totalyconfused me. understand I totally forgot that I had signed into this site. Thats the angle I came into this.I needed help and I asked for it I now know whats what. and can move forward. I am not vegan just putting it out there. I live in the UK,  some information is a little different.



And we've tried to direct you where to go with it.  It can be formulated  to make vegan soap.  It's nothing new, been on the market for years.  Knowing what oils and butters bring to the party and knowledge on the FA's of them as well as a working knowledge of a soap calculator and some work you can do it.  We've even shared some ideas on how to go about it.   I think the thread went a bit off track though.


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## earlene (Feb 7, 2019)

shella said:


> Okey doky here I go...pepole calling soap vegan when it is not. not on purpose when listing a recipe online use palm oil, steric acid. but not saying which one is plant based or animal fat based.
> 
> People have asked me about no animal product soap when I asked what do you mean by that I was told (for soap making )
> no animal  products I researched and asked them more questions it came apparent that this was not going to be easy.
> I looked online for the ingredients and the recipes I found to me did not research the ingredients. It totalyconfused me. understand I totally forgot that I had signed into this site. Thats the angle I came into this.I needed help and I asked for it I now know whats what. and can move forward. I am not vegan just putting it out there. I live in the UK,  some information is a little different.



Okay, well if a soapmaker says the soap is vegan and lists stearic acid and palm oil, that doesn't mean it's not vegan.  There is the sustainable palm and vegetable based stearic acid available for purchase.  As long as those are used, then it meets the criteria.  However, some people (vegan and non-vegan) prefer to avoid using any palm, even the sustainably grown palm.  But that is a personal choice and not rule as it pertains to calling oneself vegan.

Granted, to clarify the ingredients for the vegan, it would be a good idea to state on the ingredients list that the stearic acid is plant based (derived from plants) and that the palm was from a sustainable source.


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## geniash (Feb 7, 2019)

I am amazed how we went from vegan soap topic - to ecological conundrum - to saving animals and endangered species... Short answer - yes there is vegan soap. Castile soap made with only olive oil, lye and water. Bastile soap with the mix of coconut and olive oils, lye and water. For those allergic to nuts (and coconut oil as a result) there is a substitute of babassu oil. Those are great soaps that are both inexpensive and vegan.


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## Misschief (Feb 8, 2019)

Dean said:


> Red carmine is made from squashed bugs.


Cochineal, to be exact.

Totally OT.. there's an interesting book about red dye, "the Color Red" by Amy Butler Grenfield.


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## KiwiMoose (Feb 9, 2019)

geniash said:


> I am amazed how we went from vegan soap topic - to ecological conundrum - to saving animals and endangered species... Short answer - yes there is vegan soap. Castile soap made with only olive oil, lye and water. Bastile soap with the mix of coconut and olive oils, lye and water. For those allergic to nuts (and coconut oil as a result) there is a substitute of babassu oil. Those are great soaps that are both inexpensive and vegan.


You can use coconut oil if you are allergic to nuts - it's not a nut


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