# Latex Allergies and oils



## pamielynn (Oct 13, 2015)

Does anyone have definitive proof that if a person has a latex allergy, then they are also allergic to avocado oil, shea butter, mango butter, castor oil, etc?

I thought - at least in the case of shea butter that the proteins are NOT the same as the protein in latex gloves & balloons...

And if you are allergic to something like avocados - does that automatically make you allergic to the oil? It's intuitive thinking that one WOULD be, but is it actually true?

Does any of this apply when the oils in question are turned into soap?

I'd like to learn more about all this, but from scientific sources, not just anecdotal or interwebz brain trusts, if possible. Any help is appreciated -even a link back to a thread I may have missed. Thanks!!


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## shunt2011 (Oct 13, 2015)

I'm sure it will vary from person to person. I have a latex allergy but have no problem with any of the oils or butters.  My allergy is primarily with long exposure. Like wearing latex gloves. It makes my skin peel and itch.


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## maya (Oct 13, 2015)

I have allergies to latex and rubber plant related plants. My allergies include shea, avocado, mango, anything tropical. Related to that is crustacean allergy. I have allergies to other things too in case someone is wondering. 

There is lots of info available on the net, one source is http://www.kidswithfoodallergies.org/ I don't wanna make suggestions that you have already check out, but that one is good. Where have you looked for information?


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## Dorymae (Oct 13, 2015)

The best answer to your question is no it doesn't mean they are automatically allergic, however they have a much higher chance of being allergic to the various oils if they are allergic to latex. Same goes for avocado, and the oil. Again, they may or may not be allergic to soap made with those oils - everyone has different reactions and levels of reactions.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 14, 2015)

Ah, so it can often be the case, but is not always so. I know some people with a lot of allergies (I don't know how they actual navigate this world with all the allergies) so I will have to ask them if they have been checked out


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## Susie (Oct 14, 2015)

^What the others said!

Also, the problem with allergies is that once a person has a reaction to a particular allergen, then each subsequent exposure can cause a more severe reaction.  So, what starts out with say itching and peeling this week may be a full blown anaphylactic reaction in a month.  It may not, but it is probably not worth someone's life to keep using problem products.


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## KristaY (Oct 14, 2015)

I have often wondered the same thing, Pamielynn, but I also haven't found any studies done on the subject. My DIL is very allergic to all nuts so I make sure I never include sweet almond oil when I make lotion for her. I also make sure she doesn't use any soap with SAO because I'm not sure what chemical changes (if any) occur during saponification. If you come across any good articles on the subject, I'd love to read them.


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## GraceDarlingSoaps (Oct 14, 2015)

It is called Latex Allergy Cross Reactivity, if you google this you will find lots of info. Latex contains a number of proteins and other substances with any of these proteins may possibly also cause an allergic reaction. I am not sure how this applies to soaps, though it is documented with certain foods. 
GraceDarlingSoaps


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## songwind (Oct 14, 2015)

One more bit of data for the pile. My wife and daughter are both allergic to latex. One has a cross-reactivity to bananas and the other has no cross-reactivity. Neither have issue with mangoes, avocado, or shea. So it's definitely not cut-and-dried.


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## pamielynn (Oct 14, 2015)

Thank you for all the links and suggestions!!

What specifically makes me curious about these allergens in soap is that many people tell me "I'm allergic to nuts so I can't have this or the other" or "I'm allergic to avocados, so this and that are out" -within the frame of soap products. HOWEVER - I've only had one person in all this time look at my ingredient lists and say "I can't have nuts, so I won't buy this soap with almond oil". Everyone else buys and uses my soap and nobody has complained about a reaction. These are local customers who actually tell me they have allergies.

I've seen people market soaps as "gluten-free", but a friend's daughter with Celiac does not worry about skin care products that she doesn't digest (lip balms are something she DOES worry about). And she holds to the theory that a soap product cannot trigger a gluten reaction.

I guess I'm wondering if these allergens actually make it through the soaping process and really cause a problem. 

I'll look through the links and do some more googling - it just seems to me that the typical allergens are NOT causing a problem with a soap products - but I'd like to be more certain than I am right now.

Thanks everyone!


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## TeaLeavesandTweed (Oct 14, 2015)

I'm mostly wondering why you need such hard scientific data? Medical research is tough because it's not ethical to purposely expose someone with a known allergy to something expected to cause a cross-reaction. So it would be pretty much impossible to carry out an experiment to determine the statistical likelihood of a rubber-latex-allergic person cross-reacting to any other high-latex-containing plant product.

Also, even if the saponification process completely destroys the protein that causes an allergy, if there is a lye discount in the soap, there will be some free, unsaponified oil of some sort. So unless you hot-process with no lye discount and then add oils in after, there's no way to choose what the superfat is.


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## penelopejane (Oct 14, 2015)

The problem with trying to find scientific proof about various illnesses is that there will be an equal number of scientific papers refuting the evidence. 

This is because a lot of allergies are cyclical. A reaction might not occur for weeks then suddenly you are allergic to everything. Also there are people  with fibromyalgia who don't believe they are allergic to salicylates. That's because their general malaise means it is difficult to pin point a cause. 
http://www.fibromyalgiatreatment.com/what-is-fibromyalgia.html

The skin is a huge organ that absorbs whatever is put on it. Not many people realise or want to know that they can absorb chemicals this way. People with severe reactions know this is true. People with lesser reactions either don't feel the effects or ignore it. Young celiacs and salicylate intolerant people seem to be more tolerant to small amounts of gluten or salicylate as the case maybe. As they get older the reaction may get more intense so they have to be more careful with what the "ingest".


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## Susie (Oct 14, 2015)

A good way to handle people with allergies is to accurately label your soap with everything that is in there, and let the buyer beware.


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## maya (Oct 14, 2015)

pamielynn said:


> Thank you for all the links and suggestions!!
> 
> What specifically makes me curious about these allergens in soap is that many people tell me "I'm allergic to nuts so I can't have this or the other" or "I'm allergic to avocados, so this and that are out" -within the frame of soap products. HOWEVER - I've only had one person in all this time look at my ingredient lists and say "I can't have nuts, so I won't buy this soap with almond oil". Everyone else buys and uses my soap and nobody has complained about a reaction. These are local customers who actually tell me they have allergies.
> 
> ...




You are asking for hard scientific data, which is great, so this won't help you, I have two friends with Celiacs Disease (not just I avoid bread or something.) One CANNOT have oat meal lotion, one can. A lot of reactions related to allergies or diseases are based on the individual, as other have said.


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## maya (Oct 14, 2015)

I also meant to add, that I do reaction to soap with cross reactive ingredients (latex), fragrance oils, peanuts, etc.


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## pamielynn (Oct 14, 2015)

penelopejane said:


> The problem with trying to find scientific proof about various illnesses is that there will be an equal number of scientific papers refuting the evidence.
> 
> This is because a lot of allergies are cyclical. A reaction might not occur for weeks then suddenly you are allergic to everything. Also there are people  with fibromyalgia who don't believe they are allergic to salicylates. That's because their general malaise means it is difficult to pin point a cause.
> http://www.fibromyalgiatreatment.com/what-is-fibromyalgia.html
> ...



The girl I'm speaking about is 22. She was diagnosed at around 6 months. I do see what you're saying about cyclical allergies - I have "hay fever" myself. But I didn't think food allergies would be like that - unless of course you are allergic to seasonal foods and only eat them in season.


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## pamielynn (Oct 14, 2015)

Susie said:


> A good way to handle people with allergies is to accurately label your soap with everything that is in there, and let the buyer beware.



That's what I do now. 

I'm not the best at writing what's in my head, so excuse me - everybody - if I sound like I'm off my rocker 

At market, people will tell me that they have allergies. I tell THEM that all my ingredients are listed on the side panel (and usually show them). Then I watch them buy soap that is made with what they are allergic to. Nobody has ever come back to me and said "Hey, your soap triggered my allergy". I'm at this market every week for 6 months of the year, so you'd think if they had a problem, they'd be back to tell me, right?

Most of them don't even look at the ingredients. It feels like those people who will tell you "I'm allergic to fragrance" then want blueberry scented soap. 

So, if one is allergic to latex or avocados, uses a soap with avocado oil and shea butter but has no reaction - what does everyone think of that?

Is there not proof out there that the allergens in these ingredients don't make it through "saponification"? I can't find anything, myself.

ETA: maybe I'm just thinking "out loud". Ignore me if this conversation is going in circles


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## cmzaha (Oct 14, 2015)

I simply would not trust it with the superfatting, lye purity etc. For example I have a friend so allergic to avocados if he were to use a spoon that touched an avocado he would risk anaphylactic shock. This is why I fully label all products. Even at a 0 superfat I do not think we can guarantee all the fatty acids are saponified and all the proteins eaten by the lye monster, unless we know the exact purity of our lye and the exact sap value of the oils we are using. Not worth the risk. I am one that is severly allergic to latex, but can handle small amounts of shea, just not on my lips. A shea lip balm will cause almost instant itching and swelling of my lips and tongue


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## penelopejane (Oct 15, 2015)

pamielynn said:


> The girl I'm speaking about is 22. She was diagnosed at around 6 months. I do see what you're saying about cyclical allergies - I have "hay fever" myself. But I didn't think food allergies would be like that - unless of course you are allergic to seasonal foods and only eat them in season.



Food allergies are just as complex because whatever it is that you are allergic to has a threshhold in your system. 

For instance - Say you are allergic to Salicylates.  You can have spaghetti bolognaise for dinner three nights in a row and not be affected.  But if you have it for breakfast as well one of those days you will be really sick.  If you used a lotion on one of those days that had salicylates in it you would be really sick.  The effects of salicylates can last for 3 - 5 days in your system so it is very, very difficult to pinpoint what is making you sick. 

It is cyclical too because as you age things change in your body and reactions change.  
Also maybe if you are super healthy and your immune system is working well you can go for a few months of being able to eat the foods you are allergic to then bam...it hits you again. 

Also with Salicylates (as with many other allergens) the reaction might not be migraine with vomiting but could be inflammation inside your body that you cannot see. 

It is very, very difficult to work allergies out even if you go on a medically supervised exclusion diet and pin point the cause.  roblem:


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## penelopejane (Oct 15, 2015)

pamielynn said:


> That's what I do now.
> 
> I'm not the best at writing what's in my head, so excuse me - everybody - if I sound like I'm off my rocker
> 
> ...



Maybe they are not buying the soap for themselves?
Or maybe they give them away if they react negatively to them. It is not your fault that they reacted when you told them the ingredients.  They just thought they'd give it a try. 

I am on here saying I am allergic to olive oil but then talk all about Castille soap.  That's because I can't use castille but my dh can.  He can't have fragrance or colours but I can (some). 

It can take up to a month of my dh using a soap before his eczema breaks out and then it takes 2 weeks to get back under control.  Other soaps he reacts straight away even if the soap is a year old.  If he cuts my pure castile soap out of the mold he gets a bad burning sensation but in 12 months time it is the best thing for him. No need to zap test with my soap even after 4 weeks I can get him to touch it and he can detect the lye.  

You will just have to trust millions of people out there who tell you that there are soaps and skin products that they cannot use because they have stuff in them that they are allergic to or react to in some way.  My son gets an instant headache from the scent of ginger.  My other son can throw up with the scent of bananas. It is not psychosomatic.  It is their body telling them there is something here you should avoid. 

My dh has no sense of smell but he can detect a soap with a tiny bit of perfume just by the reaction on his skin.  Sure it won't kill him but it will make him uncomfortable for a few days or weeks. 

There are many, many things that science can't explain.  My dh is a botanist and a biochemist and has a good understanding of how the body and plants work and nature still amazes him.


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## pamielynn (Oct 15, 2015)

penelopejane, that's a good point you make that I wasn't thinking about: a buildup of the allergen. Thank you!

And people could by chucking out my soaps, but I know that some of them are repeat customers. I know everyone is different. I mean, I HATE the smell of lavender and it gives me headaches, but everyone else loves it!

I also understand that the medical community is very slow about accepting these "unusual" types of allergies. I remember when they still said that people simply just did NOT have allergies to food 

I guess I'll just keep on keeping on... thank you all for your help and comments!! I'm still looking around and asking questions on this topic - it fascinates me.


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## Susie (Oct 15, 2015)

When someone has an allergic reaction, it is to the proteins in that item.  Not the fats.  The problem of soaps made with those items is that no one can absolutely guarantee that there are no proteins in the oils, or that the lye denatures what little protein remains.  So, folks who are using a soap made with something that is a known allergen, they are risking a reaction.  99% of the time, they should be fine.  The issue is that 1% chance of a reaction.


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## Misschief (Oct 15, 2015)

I'll only chime in to add that, in my case, artificial scents can trigger a migraine in me, which is the main reason I don't use them but natural scents (essential oils) do not. Both my daughter and I have oral reactions to some nuts (tree nuts in her case, filberts in mine), raw fruits and vegetables when we ingest them but no reaction when any of these foods are used topically (i.e. almond oil, hazelnut oil).


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## Susie (Feb 28, 2018)

pamielynn said:


> That's what I do now.
> 
> I'm not the best at writing what's in my head, so excuse me - everybody - if I sound like I'm off my rocker
> 
> ...



Theoretically, mind you, oils do not contain the protein that triggers the allergic reaction.  That is what is supposed to be.  Then you add the whole saponification process that should further damage beyond our body's recognition the protein (the body has certain receptors that the protein locks into, so damage to that protein's structure should prevent that from occurring).

Add to the above that people label all sorts of reactions to products as "allergies", when they are not true allergic reactions, and you get exactly what you are saying they do above.   Especially the fragrance.  Fragrances with phthalates have been known to trigger migraines and sneezing, watery eyes, runny nose type reactions that are not true allergies, but irritations of the mucous membranes.


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## Susie (Feb 28, 2018)

Misschief said:


> I'll only chime in to add that, in my case, artificial scents can trigger a migraine in me, which is the main reason I don't use them but natural scents (essential oils) do not. Both my daughter and I have oral reactions to some nuts (tree nuts in her case, filberts in mine), raw fruits and vegetables when we ingest them but no reaction when any of these foods are used topically (i.e. almond oil, hazelnut oil).



I get oral allergy syndrome to raw cherries. Last time I tried a couple, my throat started itching and feeling tight.  Never again.


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## Misschief (Feb 28, 2018)

Susie said:


> I get oral allergy syndrome to raw cherries. Last time I tried a couple, my throat started itching and feeling tight.  Never again.



Yup. I only mentioned filberts but I get that same reaction with numerous fresh fruits and vegetables. It's the main reason I don't eat a lot of fresh fruits and veggies. Process them in some way, no issue (i.e. fresh peaches vs canned peaches).


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