# Small individual soap moulds not working



## Anne121x (Sep 1, 2018)

Hi, I cannot seem to make nice soap in small individual moulds. They get white and ashy all round and sometimes crumbly when the same mix looks perfect in a loaf mould.
I did manage in the past to make some but do not know what I did differently. Is it best to pour into moulds at high temperature or better at low temperature so they do not cool down too quickly? I have no idea as I have tried everything, insulating them overnight etc and nothing seems to work.


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## lsg (Sep 1, 2018)

I have found that I get a smoother bar in individual molds if I pour the soap at thin trace.  The reason for the ash is probably because the soap in individual molds do not gel.  I would just wipe off each bar with a damp cloth or with rubbing alcohol.  With regular soap making, I really don't worry too much about temp.  I prepare the lye solution first and melt my solid fats/oils or butters while letting the lye water settle and cool.  The melted fats are cooled when I add my liquid oils.  By that time the lye water has probably cooled enough to add to the combined oils/fats.  The exception with this is milk soaps.  I usually freeze my milk or cream first, break it up and add the lye a little at-a-time while the container sets in an ice water bath.


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## Anne121x (Sep 1, 2018)

Thanks Isg..I will try the thin trace for sure. Wiping each bar does not appeal to me for large batches..

Hi, I am surprised that I only had one answer to my question. Thanks Isg.  Really would appreciate some more tips from those that manage to produce perfect smooth individual ash free bars as to what am I doing wrong?
I cannot seem to make nice soap in small individual moulds. They get white and ashy all round and sometimes crumbly when the same mix looks perfect from a loaf mould.
I use 50% Olive, 30% Coconut, 20% Palm, 5% SF..mix oil at 45c approx and lye usually  50ish. 
I did manage in the past to make some ash free but do not know what I did differently. Is it best to pour into moulds at high temperature or better at low temperature so they do not cool down too quickly? I have no idea as I have tried both ways, insulating them overnight etc and nothing seems to work.


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## dibbles (Sep 2, 2018)

@Anne121x I don't think anyone is ignoring your question. It is a holiday weekend in the US. I saw your question but didn't respond because I don't have a lot of advice since I have the same issues with individual molds. As lsg said, pouring at thinner trace will give a smoother surface. The best luck I've had is making sure the soaps gel. I have to force gel with individual molds by placing on a heating pad and insulating well. You could also try spraying the top with rubbing alcohol. Or plane the ash off if it isn't too thick. 

I only use individual cavities when I make salt bars which heat up more quickly (I still have to force gel), and for the small amounts of left over batter from a batch. Sorry I can't be of more help, and if you find a solution please share.

Edit to add: My individual molds are silicone. The plastic ones (Milky Way type) may not stand up to the heat of CPOP/forced gel)


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## Obsidian (Sep 2, 2018)

Yes, getting them to gel should solve your ash issue. I also get ash with individual molds but I don't care so I generally don't bother with trying to force gel. When I do, I'll put my molds in a warm oven (170* F) overnight. Warm the oven then turn it off, don't leave it turned on or you will cook the soap or ruin it.

The temp you pour at doesn't have anything to do with ash, its not the cooling down that forms it. Its the reaction of the lye with the air, forcing gel reduces the amount of time the reaction has to occur.

Ash all around and crumbling is from unmolding too soon. Gelling will also help with that.


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## Anne121x (Sep 2, 2018)

Thanks dibble, much appreciated! Will share my results for sure. Hope ye are having a lovely holiday weekend. Weather here in London UK glorious.



Obsidian said:


> Yes, getting them to gel should solve your ash issue. I also get ash with individual molds but I don't care so I generally don't bother with trying to force gel. When I do, I'll put my molds in a warm oven (170* F) overnight. Warm the oven then turn it off, don't leave it turned on or you will cook the soap or ruin it.
> 
> The temp you pour at doesn't have anything to do with ash, its not the cooling down that forms it. Its the reaction of the lye with the air, forcing gel reduces the amount of time the reaction has to occur.
> 
> Ash all around and crumbling is from unmolding too soon. Gelling will also help with that.


Thanks Obsidian! And to think of all the tests I have done varying mixing and pouring temps! I was reading through them all last night to find a common denominator, to no avail! I do unmold after 12 hrs, that probably does not help.


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## Obsidian (Sep 2, 2018)

Nope, thats doesn't help at all. At 12 hours with no gel, the soap still has active lye and once its out of the molds and exposed all over to air, the ash forms. Its also probably too soft which causes the crumbling. Leave it in the molds for a good 24 hours, maybe even more if possible.


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## earlene (Sep 2, 2018)

Many soapers say that beeswax in soap also helps prevent ash.  I don't use it often, but if I remember correctly, the soaps with beeswax did not get ash.  But to use beeswax, you have to soap hotter because it has a high melting point.  And the percentage often recommended is approximately 3% of your soaping oils, so you don't want to use too much.  It can heat up your soap, too, so getting the soap in individual molds might be less of a struggle with 3% beeswax.  BUT, if you use beeswax, you probably won't have time for intricate swirls.  Technically, you probably can pour while still at a thin enough trace as long as its a fairly small batch, but that may take a lot of practice before you become adept at pouring before it is too thick.

However, if you don't want to change your recipe, there are some other things to try.  Some folks spray with rubbing alcohol only once right when they first pour the soap.  However, the Soap Queen recommends spraying 3 times at 20 minute intervals as the soap is cooling using 91% rubbing alcohol.  I have also read for one soaper that what works best for her to prevent soda ash is to spray after the soap first comes into contact with air; that is soap that is kept covered until after it gels and cools. 

For a smooth surface in individual molds, the best solution for me was to fill all the way to the top and use a skinny spatula to smooth the surface (like smoothing cake frosting on a cake, but with thinner soap batter).  THEN, I plane the bottoms of the soaps.  This is what works best for me with the problem on not getting a perfectly smooth surface on the bottoms of the soaps.

Some folks cover the molds with wax paper to keep the top (which becomes the bottom after un-molded) smooth and the air away from the soap.  I have not used waxed paper, but do use plastic wrap, which does often create a wrinkled surface.  Planing makes the surface smooth.

To gel my soaps in individual molds, I place them on a cardboard tray lined with a towel or silicone mat, then cover with plastic wrap (after misting with alcohol), then cover with a sheet of cardboard, then cover with another towel draping it over the top and sides.  I may or may not invert another carboard tray or box over top of the whole thing to create a mini-environment.  Then I put it all into a pre-heated oven.  I usually pre-heat to 150° per my extra oven thermometer, turning off the oven when I put the tray of soaps into the oven.  I sometimes stack more than one tray of soaps on top of each other in this fashion.  They tend to help insulate each other when stacked.  The cardboard helps insulate as well as providing a rigid surface above and below the molds.  The towels help insulate as well.  How long I leave the soap in the oven depends mostly on when I put it in.  If I put it in as night, I leave it overnight and remove the next day.  If I do it in the morning (which I rarely manage), then I would leave it in all day.  There are alternatives to using a stove, such as using a heating pad, etc.


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## Anne121x (Sep 2, 2018)

Yes Obsidian that is exactly what happened, they looked lovely after 12 hrs and popped out of mold easily
but then turned white with ash over the next few days.   
Thanks earlene. Great tips! Looking again at my notes and it looks like my room temperature soap produced less ashy bars but perhaps
it was because I unmolded them later? Was obsessing so much with mixing and pouring temperatures that I did not make a note of insulating time.
Gosh so much to learn still! Busy now formulating scents for shampoos, shower washes etc but will get back to my soaping soon.


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## Sonya is soaping (Sep 3, 2018)

I've just changed to stick blender hot process and no more soda ash!


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## Anne121x (Sep 3, 2018)

Hi Sonya do you mean hot process as opposed to cold process? And how long do you insulate?


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## Sonya is soaping (Sep 3, 2018)

Yes I quickly changed to hot process technique as I'm way too impatient to wait 4 to 6 weeks for soap to cure. Hot process doesn't need to be insulated just place straight in freezer or fridge for an hour or two, unmould and ready to use.
I use the stick blender technique using very hot oil and lye, stick blend till thick trace and then pop in microwave until it starts to rise. Looks like cake batter rising and cooking. When that happens just stir down with spoon and stick blend again, will rise again, then stir down, stick blend again and soon it will be no more apple sauce but Vaseline type. All done. Add in warmed fragrance and warmed blended coloring. 
Haven't done this in individual moulds but sure it would work, if not add a bit of sodium lactate and yoghurt to get a fluid "batter"


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## Anne121x (Sep 4, 2018)

Amazing Sonya thanks x


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## Obsidian (Sep 4, 2018)

@Sonya is soaping HP doesn't speed cure time, it only speeds saponification. HP needs the same cure time as CP, sometimes more as it can be softer and needs time to harden. True its safe to use once its cut but you can also use CP as soon as its zap free.


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## Sonya is soaping (Sep 4, 2018)

I disagree. I've read a lot about it and most people say hot process normally cures for 1-3 weeks. I've just made a hot process soap that I cured for 4 days and it's a perfectly hard bar but I guess it depends on what oils you are using.
I guess if you used a lot of water to make your batter more fluid that would take longer for the soap to cure.


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## Alfa_Lazcares (Sep 4, 2018)

Sonya is soaping said:


> I disagree. I've read a lot about it and most people say hot process normally cures for 1-3 weeks. I've just made a hot process soap that I cured for 4 days and it's a perfectly hard bar but I guess it depends on what oils you are using.
> I guess if you used a lot of water to make your batter more fluid that would take longer for the soap to cure.



But i mean, you can make a cp coconut oil soap and it will be a perfectly hard bar in 8 hours, but that doesnt mean the soap is cured, just that is hard. Cure time is more than just the hardening of the soap.


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## shunt2011 (Sep 5, 2018)

You can use CP soap within 3 days too.  It's just not a good bar any more than HP.  HP just has the saponification process done a bit quicker.  Curing is a totally different thing.  It allows the soap structure to change and make it a much better bar that will last longer. You are certainly free to believe what you like but please don't mislead new folks. That subject has been discussed here many times.


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## Relle (Sep 5, 2018)

I agree with the people above, it would be wise as a beginner and still learning to take in what others have said re the HP.


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## penelopejane (Sep 5, 2018)

OP 
In winter in Australia for individual molds CP I soap warm and pour at thin trace. I spray with isopropyl alcohol and insulate in a polystyrene box (if my batter has cooled I put a wheat bag heated in the microwave into the box as well) and leave them there for 3 or 4 days. If I unmold too early I get ash. If I don’t use alcohol I get ash. 

So far this has prevented ash on the top and on all the sides of individual cavity molds. (12 per mold). 
I don’t get ash on a log mold but individual molds are a pain in winter. My soaping and curing area is unheated.


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## zanzalawi (Sep 5, 2018)

penelopejane said:


> OP
> In winter in Australia for individual molds CP I soap warm and pour at thin trace. I spray with isopropyl alcohol and insulate in a polystyrene box (if my batter has cooled I put a wheat bag heated in the microwave into the box as well) and leave them there for 3 or 4 days. If I unmold too early I get ash. If I don’t use alcohol I get ash.


wheat bag! what a great idea!


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## Anne121x (Sep 5, 2018)

Thanks penelopejane! I think the heat and the longer insulating time is the trick. It is going to be hard as I am always 
dying to see how my soap turned out the next day. I will have to be a bit more patient. The reward will be ash free bars hopefully.

Thanks penelopejane. I have no idea what a wheat bag is but it sounds good. I think the heat and the longer insulating
time is the solution. I am always very impatient to see my soap next day so I will just try to be patient and my reward will be ash free soap hopefully.

Did not think that first reply went so had to rewrite it..


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## penelopejane (Sep 5, 2018)

zanzalawi said:


> wheat bag! what a great idea!


I used to CPOP but my new molds don’t fit in the oven so I had to work out another way. If you don’t have a polystyrene box just use cardboard and cover with blankets and leave it undisturbed. 

I think ash is something to do with the air getting to the soap before it’s saponified fully?  Doesn’t explain why logs are ok but they might produce more heat so may fully saponista quicker?


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## penelopejane (Sep 5, 2018)

Anne121x said:


> Thanks penelopejane. I have no idea what a wheat bag is but it sounds good. I think the heat and the longer insulating
> time is the solution. I am always very impatient to see my soap next day so I will just try to be patient and my reward will be ash free soap hopefully.



A wheat bag is a cotton bag with wheat or barley grains in it. You can heat it in the microwave.  It’s like a hot water bottle but lasts much longer. Chemists or pharmacists have them or you can make one yourself. Also good for neck pain or stomach aches.


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## Sonya is soaping (Sep 5, 2018)

shunt2011 said:


> You can use CP soap within 3 days too.  It's just not a good bar any more than HP.  HP just has the saponification process done a bit quicker.  Curing is a totally different thing.  It allows the soap structure to change and make it a much better bar that will last longer. You are certainly free to believe what you like but please don't mislead new folks. That subject has been discussed here many times.


Sorry if this came across wrong. I totally agree that during curing all sorts of things happen. I just meant that if a soap is SAFE to use and Hard, it can be used with no worries. I am leaving my HP to cure for upto 3 weeks or more if I don't need straight away. Anyway, the simple question was about soda ash and I really I should have just said I changed to HP so I don't have to deal with soda ash.


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## Anne121x (Sep 6, 2018)

Thanks everyone for sharing..can't wait to try all these new tips and finally not see my beautiful soap covered in ash!
Will post some photos of my results..


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## zanzalawi (Sep 6, 2018)

i had a couple loafs that had been hanging out in an insulated cardbord box since i poured them monday night
i opened the box last night and one of them had a good deal of ash. i spritzed it pretty heavily with my alcohol again, i figured why not? closed the box, and it sat for a couple hours while i fed kids, got them in bed and what not. when i opened it up again to cut- the ash was gone. theyre on the curing racks, hopefully it doesnt come back. but interesting, i hadnt tried that before.


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## earlene (Sep 7, 2018)

zanzalawi said:


> i had a couple loafs that had been hanging out in an insulated cardbord box since i poured them monday night
> i opened the box last night and one of them had a good deal of ash. i spritzed it pretty heavily with my alcohol again, i figured why not? closed the box, and it sat for a couple hours while i fed kids, got them in bed and what not. when i opened it up again to cut- the ash was gone. theyre on the curing racks, hopefully it doesnt come back. but interesting, i hadnt tried that before.


I've done that, too.  The only problem is that with my soaps (recipe might have something to do with this - I don't know), the alcohol leaves tiny little pock marks on top.  I get rid of them by planing the soap.  But since I always plane the sides (that's what the top becomes after cutting a loaf mold) to make them smooth, it seemed like a waste of time and effort to spray the top.

Now what I usually do and have done for a long time now, is after the cut, I do this with each bar one at a time:  Lightly mist with alcohol & hand dry with a micro-fiber cloth so no alcohol pock marks can develop.  Then sit to cure.  

This doesn't work so well with soap that has mica painting on top or fancy top soaps, but they're not something I do a lot of anyway.  I tried it with mica-painted soap & the mica just came off.  And I rarely do fancy tops.


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