# Liquid soap: Is a preservative necessary?



## Mildreds.naturals

I'm seeing info that because of the high PH of soap, preservatives are not necessary. I'm also hearing liquid soap can go rancid. I'm not sure what to belive. I know DOS with bar soap is common.

If a preservative is needed for certain liquid soap recipies, what do you suggest?  I've heard vitamin E, but then i see info that vitamin e is not REALLY a preservative (but an antioxidant) so again, mixed reviews :/

WHy don't we have a Liquid Soap category instead of mixing bar/liquid soap together?


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## VanessaP

Whether or not you need a preservative depends on how thin you dilute your soap. If you leave it thicker, then you don't need one. But if you dilute it to use in a foamer bottle, then you definitely need to add a preservative because of the higher amount of water in it. And that is correct: GSE, ROE and Vit. E are all antioxidants, not preservatives. The vitamin E is nice for the skin but I wouldn't use it in a wash off product either.


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## lsg

I always use a preservative in my diluted liquid soap.


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## Mildreds.naturals

Ok so we've established that. Now what preservatives are conducive to clear liquid soap?


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## annie ivey

i also would like to know the answer to this question.i want to make a 100p/c goats milk shampoo but want a long shelf life.i'm a bit worried that the shampoo may dis-coluor or go rancid...help please.oh a recipe would be great too


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## Trxflyer

Mildreds.naturals said:


> Ok so we've established that. Now what preservatives are conducive to clear liquid soap?



I'd like to hear feedback on this also.


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## annie ivey

lsg said:


> I always use a preservative in my diluted liquid soap.


can you share with me which preservatives you use? i am wanting as natural as possible for 100p/c goat milk shampoo for pets. any recipes would be greatly appreciated


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## lsg

Phenonip or Liquid Germall Plus.  Although it does not use goat's milk, there should be a recipe for glycerin liquid soap on the forum.  This is the easiest and best recipe I have found.  I got this from a YouTube video.  Here is is again:

Castor Oil  3.59 oz
Coconut Oil 11.43 oz
Palm .98 oz
KOH  3.5 oz
Glycerin  10.44 oz


Use glycerin instead of water.  Melt the oils in a crock pot.  Heat glycerin on direct heat.  Use a medium pot to keep the glycerine and lye from boiling over.  Add the lye to the hot  glycerine.  Stir constantly while continuing to heat on low heat.  Stir until all the lye is dissolved.  Pour lye mixture into melted oils while stick blending.  In the video she shows the paste testing neutral after one hour.  I cooked my soap paste for several hours and left it set in the crocpot that was turned off and with the lid on for three days before my soap paste tested neutral.  I use Phenolphthalein solution to test a sample of my paste.  If it shows dark pink it is not ready.  When the test show clear, then your soap is read to dilute and use.   I used about 19 ounces of distilled water to dilute the paste I added .3% liquid Germall Plus to the cooled and diluted soap.  Just scent the soap you put in a container for use, that way, you can try out different scents.  This soap turned out fairly clear.

Here is another version of glycerin liquid soap:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VUGV_H7bZU[/ame]


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## Mildreds.naturals

annie ivey said:


> can you share with me which preservatives you use? i am wanting as natural as possible for 100p/c goat milk shampoo for pets. any recipes would be greatly appreciated



Annie,

Will the goats milk produce a white shampoo that is not clear?


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## Mildreds.naturals

lsg said:


> Phenonip or Liquid Germall Plus.  Although it does not use goat's milk, there should be a recipe for glycerin liquid soap on the forum.  This is the easiest and best recipe I have found.  I got this from a YouTube video.  Here is is again:
> 
> Castor Oil  3.59 oz
> Coconut Oil 11.43 oz
> Palm .98 oz
> KOH  3.5 oz
> Glycerin  10.44 oz



It probably was the Palm that made it slightly cloudy.  This recipie reflects an added 10% lye, am I correct? While the method used in the video works VERY well, wouldn't that recipe produce a very drying soap? That's a lot of coconut! .  I'm still learning, by the way. The recipe is mostly coconut and also is very concentrated. The amount of paste weight with this recipe will be just shy of 30oz so by adding 19oz water, that would mean a 58% concentration, right?

Also, how did you come up with 10.44 ounces of glycerin? I thought the glycerin was just supposed to be 2:1 for the KOH. Is the extra glycerin for sequestering or something else? Thanks for any info in advance

I made a few coconut recipes that cleaned very well but left my hands so dry. They had had 35% coconut in them and were diluted to about 33-38% or so. Made  very clear soap and bubbled a lot.  Diluting them to 20% helped on the drying.


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## lsg

As I said, I got this recipe from a YouTube video and no it isn't at all drying for me.  I don't over-dilute because I don't want to have to use a thickener.  I am by no means an expert.  I usually run a new recipe through a lye calculator to see that it will work.  My Soap Maker 3 Pro gives this a 6% superfat.  I add more glycerin because this soap makes a really thick paste and it takes longer to test neutral with less glycerin.  You can cut the glycerin back to 9 oz if desired.   All I can tell you is that it has worked great for me.


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## Smee

Can I ask a question of lsg or anyone who wants to chime in..?

Having just made my first liquid soap with coconut & olive, can I use 
it for the soaping101 video on making milk shampoo?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWkioBbHgYg[/ame]

I mixed it using water instead of glycerin, but could it still work or
should I make a new batch using the glycerin?  

p.s. can I make a double batch or more of the glycerin soap and save it undiluted in 
the fridge since the shampoo only lasts a week or so according to her vid?  
Yegads, there is so much to try here!  Why oh why did I ever find SMF?!?!


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## lsg

Yes, you can save the undiluted paste in the refrigerator.


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## Smee

Thank you lsg!


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## lsg

Smee, I don't know why you couldn't use your liquid soap base to do the same thing as she did on the video, but I would add a preservative.  I would just experiment with a small amount first.


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## Mildreds.naturals

Smee said:


> Can I ask a question of lsg or anyone who wants to chime in..?
> 
> Having just made my first liquid soap with coconut & olive, can I use
> it for the soaping101 video on making milk shampoo?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWkioBbHgYg
> 
> I mixed it using water instead of glycerin, but could it still work or
> should I make a new batch using the glycerin?
> 
> p.s. can I make a double batch or more of the glycerin soap and save it undiluted in
> the fridge since the shampoo only lasts a week or so according to her vid?
> Yegads, there is so much to try here!  Why oh why did I ever find SMF?!?!



I made this last night. I used her "castile" base but I multiplied the ingredients by 5 so I could use most of the can. The shampoo had very few bubbles and I really had to work to get any kind of lather but it felt nice.  It didn't smell like coconut at all, so if you expect that, don't.  I was disappointed to find the shampoo had separated by morning after showering last night. The coconut milk lists polysorbate on the can as one of the ingredients but I guess it wasn't enough to keep it all emulsified.  I would make this and leave it in the refrigerator, refilling your shampoo bottle as needed. It will last longer than a week this way.


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## Smee

lsg said:


> Smee, I don't know why you couldn't use your liquid soap base to do the same thing as she did on the video, but I would add a preservative.  I would just experiment with a small amount first.



I went ahead and tried a small small batch using heavy cream instead of
coconut milk.  Used it yesterday and loved it.  Today  I see it's already
separated a bit, so glad it was a small small batch.  Since I hadn't added
any preservative, I'm thinking I'll pitch this.  When I make another batch
I'll add some Germaben or something and keep it in the fridge. 

Thanks for your help, lgs!


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## carolyntn

Hello lsg,
I want to be sure I understand the .3% of preservative.



lsg said:


> I used about 19 ounces of distilled water to dilute the paste I added .3% liquid Germall Plus to the cooled and diluted soap.



So for 49 oz. of diluted soap you add .3% of that amount in liquid Germall Plus? 

Is this correct:  .3% of 49 oz.= 0.147 oz. of Germall Plus added as a preservative.  Or am I getting this all wrong?

Carolyn


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## lsg

You would weigh the total amount of diluted soap and take that times .3%  
Your calculations look good to me.


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## Mildreds.naturals

carolyntn said:


> Hello lsg,
> I want to be sure I understand the .3% of preservative.
> 
> 
> 
> So for 49 oz. of diluted soap you add .3% of that amount in liquid Germall Plus?
> 
> Is this correct:  .3% of 49 oz.= 0.147 oz. of Germall Plus added as a preservative.  Or am I getting this all wrong?
> 
> Carolyn



yes, the math would then be 49 x .003

Germaben, phenonip and germall... do these cloud liquid soap?


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## lsg

Liquid Germall Plus doesn't seem to cloud my LS.  If you are worried, there is one sure way to find out.  Try a little preservative with a small amount of your soap and see.


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## AbbiesAlchemy

I know this thread is very old now but just in case someone like me comes along and wants to try Liquid germall....it might pay to do a bit of research as to what exactly that stuff is. I am so sad to find out it is made from three very toxic ingredients; Propylene Glycol (and) Diazolidinyl Urea (and) Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate. No wonder they packaged it and gave it a fancy new name. Please correct me if I am wrong. I really want to be wrong as I am still needing to find a solution.


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## DeeAnna

@AbbiesAlchemy -- I can appreciate how a person might feel when learning this for the first time, especially if you're reading EWG. Liquid Germall Plus has had that trade name for as long as I've been making lotions and other products that need preservation, and the INCI name is readily available. It's not like the manufacturer is trying to hide anything. 

LGP has a reputation as a safe and effective broad spectrum preservative. Its mode of preservative action is to release a trace of formaldehyde into the product to inhibit microbial growth.

People are horrified to hear the word formaldehyde, but it's good to keep this in perspective You will ingest more formaldehyde from eating an apple than you'll get from a product preserved with LGP per manufacturer's instructions. And you eat the apple and its formaldehyde, while a lotion (or soap or whatever) stays on the skin.

A preservative has to fight against the normal processes of decomposition, so an effective preservative has to be a chemical blend that is able to inhibit "what comes naturally". Formaldehyde is one of those chemicals that can accomplish this, but there are others to choose from too.

If you don't like LGP, there are other preservative options available, but please choose an _effective _preservative or preservative combination. There are many "natural preservatives" that aren't all that effective. More: Preservative Reviews


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## lsg

carolyntn said:


> Hello lsg,
> I want to be sure I understand the .3% of preservative.
> 
> 
> 
> So for 49 oz. of diluted soap you add .3% of that amount in liquid Germall Plus?
> 
> Is this correct:  .3% of 49 oz.= 0.147 oz. of Germall Plus added as a preservative.  Or am I getting this all wrong?
> 
> Carolyn


Yes, 49 oz x .003 = .147 oz of preservative


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## linne1gi

lsg said:


> Yes, 49 oz x .003 = .147 oz of preservative


Or in grams (easiest to use when working with such small numbers) = 4.167 grams


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## lsg

Whatever is easier for the user.  I work in ounces, so I would round .147 oz to .15 oz and use my digital scale which has weighs tenths and hundredths of an ounce.


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