# Expired ingredients



## Tee (Aug 22, 2019)

Hi! Newbie. About a month in, here. Last weekend we made a 6 hour round trip to purchase a soapers supplies...it was a soapers heaven! Molds, butters, oils, natural colorant, pounds of lye, essential oils,FOs, micas! I mean stuff is in bulk!!! oh so many goodies that I had only dreamed of purchasing! Then we purchased the heavy duty shelves from Sam's club to hold my new treasures. So I made a batch of soap with my new goodies, it cracked, a first. 2nd batch seized immediately..another first. 3rd batch seemed ok until I cut it open..horrid odor. I threw the seized batch in crockpot at 11:15 am, 10 hours later my home smelled of lye and soap was still lye heavy! In the trash. 3 batches wasted! Sooo come to find these "goodies" are EXPIRED! EVERYTHING with an expiration date expired in 2012, 2013, 2014! The 32 pounds of lye, which was in a box unopened,  was delivered to her in 2012! So please confirm the itmes are garbage. I'm sure it's not safe to use these items. 
The 35lbs  mango butter and tallow dont have expiration dates, however the unrefined mango is crumbly, what I have purchase before is not crumbly


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## DeeAnna (Aug 22, 2019)

Can't help you with the fats, but sodium hydroxide doesn't degrade simply due to time. If it still flows freely, it is very likely fine. If there are clumps but they break apart fairly easily, it's probably still fine. If there are hard solid lumps due to water vapor getting into the packaging and reacting with the lye, there might well be problems with the purity.


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## shunt2011 (Aug 22, 2019)

That's a long expiration time.  However, the lye may be okay if it was stored in a closed container and there's not much clumping inside the bottles/package.   Lard that old, I would be concerned with.  Howe does it smell?   Can't speak to Mango Butter...I don't use it.


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## earlene (Aug 22, 2019)

Where did you purchase these items?  Was it at a soap supplier or a private party who has decided to sell everything because she doesn't make soap anymore?  I'd sure be upset if that had happened to me!


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## Tee (Aug 22, 2019)

shunt2011 said:


> That's a long expiration time.  However, the lye may be okay if it was stored in a closed container and there's not much clumping inside the bottles/package.   Lard that old, I would be concerned with.  Howe does it smell?   Can't speak to Mango Butter...I don't use it.


The lye is still white but has clumps. I've never used tallow so I dont have anything to compare it to. I used the expired coconut oil and apricot oil in unscented body butter and it stinks,  a 2nd batch and used expired FO and it stinks!



earlene said:


> Where did you purchase these items?  Was it at a soap supplier or a private party who has decided to sell everything because she doesn't make soap anymore?  I'd sure be upset if that had happened to me!


Private seller. The items expired years ago and she implied she just stopped soaping! Items have been stored in a shed in Florida for more than 7 years apparently . Were out travel time, fuel,  and hundreds of dollars! Plus wasted inventory of mine that I used with the expired goods for 4 batches of body butter and 3 batches of soap!


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## DeeAnna (Aug 22, 2019)

It sounds like you let your hopes and expectations blind you to your responsibility for doing due diligence. I have been guilty of that too -- it's real tempting to say "yes" and go through with a deal when really a person should say "no" and walk away.

The seller might really have been soaping until recently, but these supplies were ones that didn't get rotated into the "use next" shelf. Or maybe she stopped soaping years ago and outright lied to you in an effort to get rid of the supplies. But as far as you, the buyer, were concerned, the real point to remember is you weren't purchasing her story, you were purchasing real goods and you should have verified they were something you can use before the purchase was finalized.

Did you ask for pictures of labels with expiration dates or similar documentation before you drove so far? Did you check the dates before you loaded the car with the supplies? Were you prepared to leave empty handed if the supplies were not what you needed?

I doubt she sold the supplies to you with any guarantees, and you've already paid for and received the materials, so the deal is done. It's likely you will have to sort through the stuff, discard what isn't usable, and look at this experience as a valuable lesson in the School of Hard Knocks.

edit: I don't mean to imply you should not be upset. I would be upset and angry too -- as much with myself as with the seller. And I do think the seller should have been more honest with you.


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## Mistrael (Aug 22, 2019)

Tee said:


> Hi! Newbie. About a month in, here. Last weekend we made a 6 hour round trip to purchase a soapers supplies...it was a soapers heaven! Molds, butters, oils, natural colorant, pounds of lye, essential oils,FOs, micas! I mean stuff is in bulk!!! oh so many goodies that I had only dreamed of purchasing! Then we purchased the heavy duty shelves from Sam's club to hold my new treasures. So I made a batch of soap with my new goodies, it cracked, a first. 2nd batch seized immediately..another first. 3rd batch seemed ok until I cut it open..horrid odor. I threw the seized batch in crockpot at 11:15 am, 10 hours later my home smelled of lye and soap was still lye heavy! In the trash. 3 batches wasted! Sooo come to find these "goodies" are EXPIRED! EVERYTHING with an expiration date expired in 2012, 2013, 2014! The 32 pounds of lye, which was in a box unopened,  was delivered to her in 2012! So please confirm the itmes are garbage. I'm sure it's not safe to use these items.
> The 35lbs  mango butter and tallow dont have expiration dates, however the unrefined mango is crumbly, what I have purchase before is not crumbly


Omg. I'm horrified for you! How awful!

Edit to add: You know, maybe she really was still soaping until relatively recently and didn't understand that expiration dates aren't just for food items. If she was using expired goods, her business would have tanked. So unethical to sell her crap rather than just taking the loss!


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## shunt2011 (Aug 22, 2019)

I totally get that you're upset.  However, those are questions I would have asked before purchasing from her.  Regardless if she just recently quit soaping or not.   I've purchased items from a couple soapmakers that were getting out of their business.  First thing asked was how old and expiration dates.   I got a lot of great things from both.


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## cmzaha (Aug 22, 2019)

I did a 6-hour run to buy destash, turning out the seller did lie about dates. But it was a good price and take all with no cherry-picking that I committed too and figured it could be worth it the drive. I went knowing it was too good a deal, so I went with a different attitude. She decided she would keep any EO's she wanted until I complained and reminded her of the cherry-picking. What the women wanted was her storage unit cleaned out. Anyway back to the subject, there were sealed oils at least 10 years old in gallon jugs and it happens the oils were fine. If they do not smell rancid they would be fine, although maybe trace a tad faster. Again buyer beware. Back to the point when you buy destash, it is always a risk so check carefully before paying. 

The batch you said smelled bad after cutting, was this 24 hrs or so after cutting? When soap is first cut it can smell bad, but let it sit and cure it will usually change, smelling like the fragrance it was supposed to. 

_*threw the seized batch in crockpot at 11:15 am, 10 hours later my home smelled of lye and soap was still lye heavy*_
How did you test your soap? If you are questioning old lye that would not be a problem. Old lye, as DeeAnna mentioned, if hard clumpy would lose strength creating soap with a higher superfat, not a lye heavy soap. Unless you measured inaccurately it would not have a lye heavy soap. Cooking a re-batch soap for 10 hrs would just make a very dried out soap. When a soap seizes just cover it and walk away, it will go into gel allowing you to stir and get it in a mold. You do have to work fast at that point since it will thicken quickly. 

Sorry, but I would say you did not need to throw away any soap. Almost all soap can be fixed. Don't throw soap away before asking if it can be fixed. 

How do the mango and tallow smell? You cannot miss rancid. Mango butter can become grainy like shea if it has melted and rehardened. It does not affect quality but needs to be tempered. I do not know if I would use it in butter, but if it smells okay I would use it up in soap. Tallow will last a long time but you need to go by your nose. 

Sorry, this happened to you but it does happen. You do have a right to ask to see what you are buying before you pay.


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## Tee (Aug 26, 2019)

Mistrael said:


> Omg. I'm horrified for you! How awful!
> 
> Edit to add: You know, maybe she really was still soaping until relatively recently and didn't understand that expiration dates aren't just for food items. If she was using expired goods, her business would have tanked. So unethical to sell her crap rather than just taking the loss!


I was blessed enough that she came and got everything and refunded all of the money.  I was only out about $80 and 3 days of work/travel but at least we got a refund! She may not have known but at least she was good enough to take it all back!


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