# I been reading a lot about this product Coco Betaine



## Atihcnoc (Oct 10, 2014)

Hi, lately I had been reading a lot about Coco Betaine. I know it is a surfactant that can be used in many things.

Have ever you used this in CP soap, or making MP soap with this as an extra? or used in anything else?

I would like to hear your opinion about this product, apparently is a natural product (I have my doubts) that is used in baby products because it is very mild.

Can you please help me with this? I was thinking in try it in my personal sugar scrub, but I don't know how to use it. So before I buy it I want to learn more about this product.

What do you think?

Thank you


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## lsg (Oct 10, 2014)

This from the swiftcraftymonkey blog:



*"Cocamidopropyl betaine--*Amphoteric. A humectant. Good foaming properties. Good flash foam and foam stabilization properties. Adding this amphoteric to an anionic mix will reduce the harshness of the other surfactants and changes the viscosity. It is a good anti-static for hair. Poor to mild cleanser. Good where mildness is vital -- babies or sensitive skin -- but primarily used as a secondary surfactant.
Why cocamidopropyl betaine? Because reduces irritation (increases mildness), offers good flash foam, and can behave as a humectant. It thickens our products and it is a gentle detergent. It is generally used as a secondary surfactant, meaning it isn't great on its own but works to make the other surfactants more awesome. You could use it on its own, but it is really really gentle and might not cleanse as much as you would like for even the most delicate or sensitive skin."

Cocamidopropyl betaine is used in making M&P soap. Susan (swiftcraftymonkey) suggests using another surfactant with cocamidopropyl betaine, you can try using 15% in your scrubs to see how that works for you. Make a small batch first so you don't waste ingredients if you don't like the results.
I use cocamidopropyl betaine as a secondary surfactant in my body washes and shampoos.

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/search?q=Cocamidopropyl+betaine+in+scrubs


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## Atihcnoc (Oct 10, 2014)

Thank you lsg,  I will follow your suggestion and let you know about it.


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## Kyra (Oct 10, 2014)

I've had some Cocamidopropyl betaine sitting on my shelf for almost a year now, waiting for me to get to it, but I keep postponing since I don't know what percentage I should add to my LS and how it will be affecting the stability of my formula over time. I've been thinking about using it to boost the lather of some of my LS high in OO, but I wasn't sure it would work if mixed with LS. Do you mind suggesting a safe percentage? I might just open that bottle and start experimenting with it if I get a suggestion of some kind. Thank you so much!




lsg said:


> This from the swiftcraftymonkey blog:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## lsg (Oct 10, 2014)

I have never added it to my liquid soap, but here is what Ingredients to Die For has to say.  I guess I would start with 5% in a small amount of liquid soap to see how it behaves.  You can always add more later on, if you find you need it.

http://www.ingredientstodiefor.com/item/CocoBetaine_Cocamidopropyl_Betaine_/174/

If you have any other surfactants, why not try a recipe for shampoo or body wash?  Usually the total percent for surfactants is 40% with coco betaine used at 15%.   Swiftcraftymonkey has a lot of recipes for shampoos and body washes.  I hardly every buy either as I can make my own and add the ingredients that are right for my family's hair and skin.


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## Kyra (Oct 10, 2014)

Super! Thanks so much  lsg!!


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## Atihcnoc (Oct 13, 2014)

lsg, thank you....I add 15% to my sugar scrub and it behave very nice, makes a creamy tiny bubbles that I like it a lot.

Do you know iif we can use this product in CP soap? I read the info in swifcraftymonkey (very interesting and informative) but she do not mention the use in CP soap.

Do you think I can use this product in CP soap?

Thank you


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## lsg (Oct 13, 2014)

Swiftcraftymonkey says that she is not a cp soap maker.  I don't think I would use it in cp soap.  I am glad your scrub turned out well.


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## Hazel (Oct 13, 2014)

Just my opinion - depending on your recipe, your soap should be bubbly without using coco betaine. There are additives you can use to boost lather like castor, buttermilk, sugar, etc. Mind just went blank - someone help me out, please. 

Although, you may not see much boost from sugar if you use 30+% coconut.

I've got some cocamidopropyl betaine and I've only used it in bubble bars. I never thought about using it in a scrub. Thank you for mentioning it. :grin:


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## Atihcnoc (Oct 15, 2014)

Hi Hazel, my soaps make a lot of bubbles so I know I don't need to add coco betaine or sugar. It was just a question as I like to experiment a lot and thought maybe somebody used this additive in CP soap, in this forum there is a lot of wonderful and creative people with a lot of inventive for soap making, that's why I thought maybe somebody gave a use to this additive. Just that. 

I'm glad that my idea of adding some coco betaine to a scrub works for you.

A big hug


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## Hazel (Oct 15, 2014)

Yes, thank you. I have some emulsified scrub base which I haven't added sugar or salt yet. I plan on scooping out a small amount and experimenting with the cocamidopropyl betaine. 

I think your idea of using it as an additive is interesting. I was thinking about how cocamidopropyl betaine or another type of bubble producer is used in MP bases. The idea of using it in a recipe which has a high percentage of olive oil began to intrigue me. I don't care for olive's lather and won't even use a bar until it's well over a year. I hate to wait that long for soap. Now I'm mulling over the idea of making a small castile batch to see how it would turn out.


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## Kyra (Oct 15, 2014)

Hazel said:


> The idea of using it in a recipe which has a high percentage of olive oil began to intrigue me. I don't care for olive's lather and won't even use a bar until it's well over a year. I hate to wait that long for soap. Now I'm mulling over the idea of making a small castile batch to see how it would turn out.



Well, I went ahead and experimented a bit with this: I didn't measure, cause I was too sleepy to get my stuff out, but I added about 1-2 ml to about 200 ml pure castile liquid soap that was thickened with HEC.

Surprize! The CB acted like a saline solution! It made a pearly flurry in the liquid soap and thickened it quite a bit. I mixed it well until most of that pearly look disappeared. The soap is almost clear again, just full of bubbles that seem trapped in the gel. I felt like the soap dispenser's pump had some trouble getting the soap out (it is that thick!)

As for the feel, it still feels slimy. Tomorrow morning, after getting some coffee into my system, I'll try the simple castile soap vs the one with CB, in order to see if there's any difference in lather.  Will report back with results.


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## lsg (Oct 15, 2014)

Coco betaine does tend to thicken other surfactants.  

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/search?q=coco+betaine+and+thickening


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## Hazel (Oct 16, 2014)

Kyra said:


> As for the feel, it still feels slimy. Tomorrow morning, after getting some coffee into my system, I'll try the simple castile soap vs the one with CB, in order to see if there's any difference in lather.  Will report back with results.



Thanks Kyra! I'm interested in hearing your results.


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## Atihcnoc (Oct 20, 2014)

I added to a melted MP soap and make small rosettes of soap with a bakery tip, my grandson (4 yrs old) wash a lot his hands, so I want to have something that will not dry his little hands. This work very well, a lot of bubbles and a lot of more washing hands as he love to see the bubbles.

Before we had an antibacterial liquid soap, but after reading this.... "FDA Scrutinizes Antibacterial Products for Hormonal Disruption, can cause alterations in thyroid, reproductive, growth, and developmental systems"." I immediately changed the soap.

The good thing is that he loves his new soap.

Antibacterial: http://www.wired.com/2013/12/fda-triclosan-rule/


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## lsg (Oct 20, 2014)

Great, how much did you add to your soap?


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## Hazel (Nov 3, 2014)

Atihcnoc - 

I just found out seven uses coco betaine in her shampoo bars. If you want, here's the link to the post where she mentioned it. http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=465867&postcount=33


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## snappyllama (Nov 3, 2014)

I just tried out some in my latest batch. Nothing seems to have been negatively impacted, but I just cut it.  I'll report back whatever differences I see.


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## new12soap (Nov 3, 2014)

Just a reminder, if you are using a surfactant as an additive in soap, it is no longer a soap. It then becomes a cosmetic and must be properly labeled as such, that is if you are selling them and are located in the USA.

(sorry, I seem to be on a wet-blanket kick lately)


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## snappyllama (Nov 3, 2014)

new12soap said:


> Just a reminder, if you are using a surfactant as an additive in soap, it is no longer a soap. It then becomes a cosmetic and must be properly labeled as such, that is if you are selling them and are located in the USA.
> 
> (sorry, I seem to be on a wet-blanket kick lately)



Thanks! I don't ever plan on selling, just foisting them on family and friends.


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## snappyllama (Nov 9, 2014)

The one week update...

The soap feels funny.  It is a spongy though there aren't any visible differences on my bars. Drying is definitely slower. I normally wash up my dishes a few days after soaping and can easily peel the dried batter from the sides of my pot into the garbage.  This batter was really sticky after one week.

My tiny tester scrap lathers the same as my regular recipe would after a week.


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## seven (Nov 10, 2014)

my shampoo bar with acv and coco betaine (cab) in it is pretty okay so far. i was using around 15% from total oils (gotta check my notes for exact amount). i did not notice any different from my other soaps. was able to unmold in 24 hours, no stickiness, no nothing. lather is def improved.


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## Atihcnoc (Nov 10, 2014)

*lsg*  thank you for the info, I will try it and let you all know about it.

Thanks


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