# why did my soap go brown like the picture?



## sheilaohga (Jan 3, 2017)

I made this soap (CP) with mixing in poppy seeds.
But after I took it out from the mold and started curing, the soap turned this brownish orange.
It started changing color as it was curing and the soap is very ugly and I still don't know what caused this.
My oils are just regular ones
Olive, Castor, Coconut, Palm..
The soaps in the picture are the same, just turned backwards to show the color changes.
Could someone please explain? 
Thank you so much!!


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## reinbeau (Jan 3, 2017)

Is it scented?  What did you use for the scent, if it is.  If not, how old were your oils?


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## DeeAnna (Jan 3, 2017)

How long has it been since you removed the soap from its mold? 

In the second picture, the visible side of the right hand bar is darkest. Was this surface toward the mold? If so, what is the mold made of -- and specifically, what was touching the surfaces of the soap when it was in this mold?


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## sheilaohga (Jan 3, 2017)

I used Sweet Orange scents and as I am quite new to soaping, the oils are not old.
Thank you.

I removed from the mold about a day later I put it in.
The mold I use is the Crafter's Choice silicone loaf mold.
Thank you.


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## earlene (Jan 3, 2017)

How does it smell?  Rancid oils in soap that has pervasive DOS smell just awful. Sort of putrid, really.  But if the fronts are still mostly white and the backs are turning yellowish-orange (to me it looks yellowish-orange in the picture), then that would seem a little weird.  How did you store them?  Did the back of the soap that is discolored come in contact with something that it could have picked up color from?  

I have actually tried transferring color from paper to soap and it does pick up color, not attractively.  And I've lain fresh soap on a plastic cutting mat that had a colored logo on the front of the mat.  The soap picked up the color of the logo, also not attractive.  I am very careful not to put fresh soap onto that mat unless it is turned upside down so the logo cannot transfer to the soap.

Were the oils fresh or could they have gone past the best use-by date?    That could make them prone to DOS (Dreaded Orange Spots - or in other words, oils that have gone rancid in the soap causing discoloration that can lead to a very strong odor as it progresses.)  If it's DOS but doesn't smell bad, the soap is supposed to be safe to use, but once it starts smelling bad I know I wouldn't want to use it.

ETA: I see you already responded the freshness of the oil before I hit send (off dealing with laundry mid-post.)


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## sheilaohga (Jan 3, 2017)

It doesn't really smell that bad. 
Most of the EO have disappeared and now it's left with mild scent.. now closer to oil smell? But it's not bad smell.
I did use it and it functions just as well as normal soap, just looking ugly.
The making was my usual CP way so I don't know what I've done different from my other soaps.

Thank you.


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## lsg (Jan 3, 2017)

What did you use for liquid to dissolve the lye?


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## sheilaohga (Jan 3, 2017)

I used distilled water, as usual.
I used same oils, lye, water, mold, everything etc as with my other soaps and put it to cure like I always do.
I put it out on the wire rack so it can breathe all the way around with no blocked sides.
But it started to color about a day or two later I put it on the rack.
And as you can see from the picture, only some parts got more colored and some part is white as I intended it to.
Very confusing..


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## BattleGnome (Jan 3, 2017)

You said you used a sweet orange eo... what brand? To my understanding orange eo's often color the soap an orange tint. With a brand name someone might be able to chime in with their experience.


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## doriettefarm (Jan 3, 2017)

My guess is either the sweet orange EO (it usually causes an orangey tint but I've never seen the discoloration be that uneven) or possibly DOS since you mentioned curing on a wire rack (unless it's stainless)


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## Susie (Jan 3, 2017)

sheilaohga said:


> I used distilled water, as usual.
> I used same oils, lye, water, mold, everything etc as with my other soaps and put it to cure like I always do.
> *I put it out on the wire rack* so it can breathe all the way around with no blocked sides.
> But it started to color about a day or two later I put it on the rack.
> ...



Did the soap touch bare metal on the wire rack?


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## newbie (Jan 4, 2017)

My guess would be DOS from laying the soap in contact with the metal rack. You can use that rack as long as you put down a sheet of parchment paper, brown paper or anything non-reactive that keeps the soap out of direct contact with the metal.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 4, 2017)

If it's a rack as in something like a cookie cooling rack, then DOS caused by the metal will most likely be in a pattern similar to the rack pattern I've seen that a few times. This doesn't seem to fit that problem. 

It could be all-over DOS from rancidity, but usually the rancid odor is pretty obvious. The other issue about that is that the all-over DOS discoloration caused by oxidized fats takes some time to happen -- and this soap isn't all that old if I'm following the conversation correctly. The other tip off that the oils were oxidized and perhaps more prone to rancidity is if the soap came to trace unusually fast. That would be caused by the extra free fatty acids present in an oxidized fat.

I'm starting to wonder if it's discoloration from the fragrance used as it reacts with air. Other soaps I've seen like this have a defined "rind" on the outside where the fragrance (or colorant) has had more time to react with the air. The effect on this soap isn't quite so clear, but still ... 

Just because oils are newly bought doesn't mean the oils are fresh, by the way. They could have sat on the store shelf for a long time before you bought them. That is why I try to buy supplies from places that do a good business so their inventory is likely to be as fresh as possible. I'm not saying your oils aren't fresh -- there's no way for me to know -- but just sharing this tip for future reference.


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## traderbren (Jan 4, 2017)

Was the Sweet Orange an EO, or a fragrance oil? If it was a fragrance oil, what brand? It looks to me a bit like discoloration from the fragrance, not fully mixed, giving you lighter and darker patches.


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## sheilaohga (Jan 4, 2017)

Thank you all very much for the replies.

I now know I should put something on the wire rack, thank you for that tip!
About the orange EO i bought it from Bulk Apothecary.
And since the coloration started when it was out of the mold maybe it's got to do something with being exposed in air.. or something.
Oil ok, smell ok, EO ok, mold ok.. wire rack not so ok (but nothing went wrong with other soaps so maybe ok) 
I still am quite not sure what caused it but since it didn't happen with my other soaps I guess I will leave this as a mystery 
Thank you again for all your replies, much appreciated.


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## dixiedragon (Jan 4, 2017)

IME, the orange EO instantly makes the soap batter orange, I've never seen it morph that way. And it's more of a bright orange, that looks like DOS orange to me. But it sounds like all of the ingredients are fresh?


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## lenarenee (Jan 4, 2017)

^^^^  I think it looks like dos orange too.  Is the mold brand new or has it been used before, and how well is it cleaned between uses?  I have 2 bars of soap - both are the end pieces, that developed dos from top to bottom. My theory is that because I can't wash them with Dawn detergent, there's a larger of old oils clinging to the mold that affects freshly poured soap.

That won't explain the dos on the inside of the cut bars, but there may be a second reason for that.


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## earlene (Jan 4, 2017)

lenarenee said:


> ^^^^  I think it looks like dos orange too.  Is the mold brand new or has it been used before, and how well is it cleaned between uses?  I have 2 bars of soap - both are the end pieces, that developed dos from top to bottom. My theory is that because I can't wash them with Dawn detergent, there's a larger of old oils clinging to the mold that affects freshly poured soap.
> 
> That won't explain the dos on the inside of the cut bars, but there may be a second reason for that.



I just recently soaked some of my plastic mixing bowls in bleach because I noticed the smell of rancid oil in 2 of them after they'd been sitting nestled inside each other.  I was so concerned I might introduce DOS to soap if I used those two bowls for making soap, that I was determined to get them really clean and toss them if I couldn't get the odor out.  A good long soaking did get the odor out, so I'm happy about that.  Time will tell if it was enough.  I think it was.

Maybe you could spray those two inside ends and corners of that mold with a bleach solution and let it air dry and see if that helps, *lenarenee*.  Or put a bleach soaked paper towel up against the sides and let it sit for 10 or 15 minutes before removing and then let it air dry.  Depends on what it's made of, I guess.


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## penelopejane (Jan 4, 2017)

Is it only discoloured in the sides that touched the mold or
Only on the sides that touched the curing racks? 

What colour is your mold? What material is your mold? Even though it didn't happen before I wouldn't dismiss the mold if it is on 5 sides of the soap.

Personally I would keep trying to find out what caused it. It's not normal and if it is DOS it will happen again and spread to your other soaps.


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## sheilaohga (Jan 4, 2017)

Wow I never knew there were so many things that can make soap do weird stuff.
I'm really starting to loving it!


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## lenarenee (Jan 4, 2017)

earlene said:


> I just recently soaked some of my plastic mixing bowls in bleach because I noticed the smell of rancid oil in 2 of them after they'd been sitting nestled inside each other.  I was so concerned I might introduce DOS to soap if I used those two bowls for making soap, that I was determined to get them really clean and toss them if I couldn't get the odor out.  A good long soaking did get the odor out, so I'm happy about that.  Time will tell if it was enough.  I think it was.
> 
> Maybe you could spray those two inside ends and corners of that mold with a bleach solution and let it air dry and see if that helps, *lenarenee*.  Or put a bleach soaked paper towel up against the sides and let it sit for 10 or 15 minutes before removing and then let it air dry.  Depends on what it's made of, I guess.



They're silicone, so bleach should be fine. Isn't bleach a base - like lye? So maybe that will saponify the residual oil?  

I can't use Dawn due to allergy. Hot soapy water works doesn't seem to be enough, plus we're in drought stricken California and I feel guilty over the amount of water it takes to clean soap stuff. I need to find some other kind of degreaser.


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## penelopejane (Jan 4, 2017)

lenarenee said:


> They're silicone, so bleach should be fine. Isn't bleach a base - like lye? So maybe that will saponify the residual oil?
> 
> I can't use Dawn due to allergy. Hot soapy water works doesn't seem to be enough, plus we're in drought stricken California and I feel guilty over the amount of water it takes to clean soap stuff. I need to find some other kind of degreaser.



Do gloves help with your allergy or does it effect your breathing?
Maybe you have to suit-up to wash your gear! Thinking haz-mat!


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## GeezLouise (Jan 4, 2017)

lenarenee said:


> ... I need to find some other kind of degreaser.



While I don't know the accuracy, some websites claim that clothing was some centuries back laundered with lye water along with or instead of soap. Maybe that would help with the molds.

I experimented on a sheet with a lye water soak... DH has oily skin.  The sheet smelled rancid because it, and the oils that didn't come out during laundering, were in a closet for at least a year. Lye solution soak before washing seemed to remove the oils. (After lye water soaking, no more odor.)


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## lenarenee (Jan 4, 2017)

No it doesn't affect my breathing. But it messes up my hands for many months - to the point that any soap/lotion/etc I use causes a remission. I've tried gloves - rubber ones in fact and some how they get contaminated and don't offer much protection. I can't even get one spot of Dawn on my skin, rinse immediately for several minutes - without having a reaction. My mother was even worse than me - her hands never were healthy


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## earlene (Jan 6, 2017)

Lenarenee, what about other dish washing soaps?  Do others do that, too, or is it something in the product called Dawn?

I'd do the bleach or the lye water on the molds.  I think either should work.  Of course make sure to protect your hands!


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## Susie (Jan 6, 2017)

Sam's has an excellent de-greaser over by the brooms and mops.  I have used it before.  I absolutely do wear dish washing gloves when I use them, and be sure to wash with soap (not detergent) and thoroughly rinse the gloves before removal to avoid skin contact.

Plastic retains oils, no matter what you do.  It seeps into the pores, and you can't get it out.  That is another reason I avoid using it.


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## penelopejane (Jan 6, 2017)

lenarenee said:


> No it doesn't affect my breathing. But it messes up my hands for many months - to the point that any soap/lotion/etc I use causes a remission. I've tried gloves - rubber ones in fact and some how they get contaminated and don't offer much protection. I can't even get one spot of Dawn on my skin, rinse immediately for several minutes - without having a reaction. My mother was even worse than me - her hands never were healthy



I am really sorry to hear that lenarenee. I was trying to be funny in the post above. I am really pleased you have found out how to keep your hands healthy. Stick to it.

DH has to use nitrile gloves to do anything with detergent and he still gets a bout of eczema if he isn't super vigilant. It's just not worth risking it.


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## lenarenee (Jan 7, 2017)

penelopejane said:


> I am really sorry to hear that lenarenee. I was trying to be funny in the post above. I am really pleased you have found out how to keep your hands healthy. Stick to it.
> 
> DH has to use nitrile gloves to do anything with detergent and he still gets a bout of eczema if he isn't super vigilant. It's just not worth risking it.



Oh no need to apologize Penelope - I knew you were joking.


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## GreenAcreHomestead (Jan 18, 2017)

Interested to see how this pans out and gets solved. Nice troubleshooting going on in this thread. :think:


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## BrewerGeorge (Jan 18, 2017)

GeezLouise said:


> While I don't know the accuracy, some websites claim that clothing was some centuries back laundered with lye water along with or instead of soap. Maybe that would help with the molds.
> 
> I experimented on a sheet with a lye water soak... DH has oily skin.  The sheet smelled rancid because it, and the oils that didn't come out during laundering, were in a closet for at least a year. Lye solution soak before washing seemed to remove the oils. (After lye water soaking, no more odor.)



I'm interested in this process.  How strong was the lye? How long did you soak it?  Did it lighten color like bleach?


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## GeezLouise (Jan 18, 2017)

BrewerGeorge said:


> I'm interested in this process.  How strong was the lye? How long did you soak it?  Did it lighten color like bleach?


10 grams NaOH in about a gallon and a half of warm water, then soaked several hours. It was a white sheet, so I don't know about effect of lye on color.

This was done in a smallish trash can that fit inside our front loading clothes washer, and I dumped the contents in. Later, it occurred to me that 1 I don't know if the washer has any aluminum parts and 2 how to do this in larger amounts of laundry without having to handle it with my hands. I suppose the process will be best if bucket based and dump lye water in the sink. 

Also, there isn't really a way to know how much oil is in the laundry that needs saponifying, but probably that's not a huge issue for most household laundry.


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## Susie (Jan 18, 2017)

I would probably just do that in the sink if you can get an old fashioned rubber or silicone stopper to keep the water in.  Like this:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KT2ENII/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Sink parts have to be alkali safe, or lye would not be an unclogging solution, right?


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