# Too much coconut oil?



## Jenniffer (Jan 26, 2019)

Hello everyone, I put this recipe in a soap calculator:
Olive Oil 30%
Coconut Oil 30%
Avocado oil 20%
Shea butter 10%
Almond oil 5%
Castor oil 5%
The calculator returned a suggestion of:
Coconut oil 33%
Olive oil 22%
Shea butter 20%
Avocado 12%
Castor oil 10%
Almond oil 3%

So, I tried the suggestion. It set up quickly. I was able to take it out of the mold after four hours and I noticed that a corner broke off, which leads me to think that it’s going to be very brittle. 

I have read that too much CO is drying to the skin.  Do I have too much CO in this recipe? Any advice will be greatly appreciated.  Thank you.


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## Jenniffer (Jan 26, 2019)

Oh, and the water is 30% and a tablespoon of kaolin clay for 32 oz of oil.


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## aihrat (Jan 26, 2019)

The combination of high coconut and shea butter and added clay is likely to have contributed to the brittleness. Soap can also be brittle if it's lye-heavy. Without knowing your exact recipe and method it's hard to say.

Coconut oil at around ~30% is high, but a lot of people are fine with that. I think 20% CO is the typical amount that people use. If you wash your hands often like me, 15% CO is the sweet spot, any higher and it causes skin issues. Given your recipe has a lot of conditioning oils and the coconut and shea butter are the only ones contributing significantly to palmitic/stearic/myristic acid content you might be fine. Also, if your superfat is reasonably high (say 7-9%) the high coconut oil might not be an issue. Clay, however, is also quite drying and can contribute to harshness.

You'll have to test the batch out and see.


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## shunt2011 (Jan 26, 2019)

Too much coconut and castor. I would drop the coconut to 20%, the Castor to 5% and remove the almond. Anything less than 5% isn’t worth it.  Add the difference to the olive and avocado.


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## aihrat (Jan 26, 2019)

shunt2011 said:


> Too much coconut and castor. I would drop the coconut to 20%, the Castor to 5% and remove the almond. Anything less than 5% isn’t worth it.  Add the difference to the olive and avocado.


agreed, though i think castor oil at 10% is a perfectly reasonable amount. 10% castor oil should still boost bubbles and not contribute significantly to undesirable softness or gumminess in most recipes.


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## Jenniffer (Jan 26, 2019)

aihrat said:


> The combination of high coconut and shea butter and added clay is likely to have contributed to the brittleness. Soap can also be brittle if it's lye-heavy. Without knowing your exact recipe and method it's hard to say.
> 
> Coconut oil at around ~30% is high, but a lot of people are fine with that. I think 20% CO is the typical amount that people use. If you wash your hands often like me, 15% CO is the sweet spot, any higher and it causes skin issues. Given your recipe has a lot of conditioning oils and the coconut and shea butter are the only ones contributing significantly to palmitic/stearic/myristic acid content you might be fine. Also, if your superfat is reasonably high (say 7-9%) the high coconut oil might not be an issue. Clay, however, is also quite drying and can contribute to harshness.
> 
> You'll have to test the batch out and see.



Thank you! I do wash my hands a lot! I am trying to create a recipe that does not have colorants but has a creamy look to it and I was hoping the kaolin Clay would give that. This is the first time using it but not worth creating a dry soap.  I used a 5 % superfat.


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## Jenniffer (Jan 26, 2019)

shunt2011 said:


> Too much coconut and castor. I would drop the coconut to 20%, the Castor to 5% and remove the almond. Anything less than 5% isn’t worth it.  Add the difference to the olive and avocado.



Thank you! Does it matter which oil dominates, olive or avocado? Or should I keep them equal?


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## Hendejm (Jan 26, 2019)

Jenniffer said:


> Thank you! I do wash my hands a lot! I am trying to create a recipe that does not have colorants but has a creamy look to it and I was hoping the kaolin Clay would give that. This is the first time using it but not worth creating a dry soap.  I used a 5 % superfat.


I would suggest you suppress/prevent gel if you want that creamy look. I’ve found that without TD in white(ish) soap and you gel it - it’s looks somewhat translucent and when you don’t gel it has a creamier look ( more like ice cream)...IMHO.


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## Jenniffer (Jan 26, 2019)

Hendejm said:


> I would suggest you suppress/prevent gel if you want that creamy look. I’ve found that without TD in white(ish) soap and you gel it - it’s looks somewhat translucent and when you don’t gel it has a creamier look ( more like ice cream)...IMHO.



Great, thank you! I’m still battling that pesky partial gel. I’m going to try soaping at room temp to see if that helps. Any other tips you have for suppressing it would be greatly appreciated.


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## Hendejm (Jan 27, 2019)

Jenniffer said:


> Great, thank you! I’m still battling that pesky partial gel. I’m going to try soaping at room temp to see if that helps. Any other tips you have for suppressing it would be greatly appreciated.


I’ve battled the partial gel demon as well!  In my experience (limited) - I soap under 100F and discount water as much as you feel comfortable with. I don’t wrap soaps for a full gel - I have 3/4”plywood molds. I just cover the top and it gets completely gelled. If I want to prevent gel - I leave uncovered and put into the fridge.


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## Primrose (Jan 27, 2019)

What calculator are you using, that you put in one recipe and it suggests another?


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## Chris_S (Jan 27, 2019)

Primrose said:


> What calculator are you using, that you put in one recipe and it suggests another?



Was thinking exactly that myself iv never come across anything like that before.

Also I usually use between 15-25% coconut oil. The biggest reason i lower the co % is to reduce solid oils for when i want more liquid slow moving oils when iv wanted to do swirls


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## lsg (Jan 27, 2019)

I  am one of those who love 30% coconut oil.  I would suggest 30% coconut, 30% palm, 35% olive or rice bran and 5% Castor oil.


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## aihrat (Jan 27, 2019)

Jenniffer said:


> Thank you! I do wash my hands a lot! I am trying to create a recipe that does not have colorants but has a creamy look to it and I was hoping the kaolin Clay would give that. This is the first time using it but not worth creating a dry soap.  I used a 5 % superfat.


agreeing with Hendejm's tips, discounting water will increase the temperature your soap needs to be to reach gel phase, and soaping cool will also help

suppressing gel is near and dear to my heart too 

you can even put your soap in the freezer if you're using sugary additives and want to keep your soap as creamy-looking as possible, i've made white goat milk soap this way



Primrose said:


> What calculator are you using, that you put in one recipe and it suggests another?



i don't know which one the OP uses, but i know that the SoapCalc app (and possibly the website, though i haven't used it in a while) does make recipe suggestions.


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## Jenniffer (Jan 27, 2019)

Primrose said:


> What calculator are you using, that you put in one recipe and it suggests another?



Soap Calculator Pro. I am very frustrated with it.



aihrat said:


> agreeing with Hendejm's tips, discounting water will increase the temperature your soap needs to be to reach gel phase, and soaping cool will also help
> 
> suppressing gel is near and dear to my heart too
> 
> ...



I used to use the Bramble Berry calculator a couple of years ago, then I took a break from soaping. When I got back into it last month, the BB calc required an update.  I tried to update my tablet and it still tells me to update. I have purchased three calculators and Each one gives me slightly different answers.



Jenniffer said:


> I used to use the Bramble Berry calculator a couple of years ago, then I took a break from soaping. When I got back into it last month, the BB calc required an update.  I tried to update my tablet and it still tells me to update. I have purchased three calculators and Each one gives me slightly different answers.



I used to make goats milk and honey soap with no problem, but for some reason I now have four failed batches under my belt.  I read the post of putting the honey in the lye, but the whole volcano thing scares me so I still add it to my oils. Today I warmed the oils to 105 and added two tablespoons of honey. I haven’t mixed in the goats milk lye yet because that in itself has presented another problem.  I put the lye over frozen milk in an ice bath but it turned out grainy. I can’t figure out what I am doing wrong.[emoji21]


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## Chris_S (Jan 27, 2019)

Jenniffer said:


> I used to make goats milk and honey soap with no problem, but for some reason I now have four failed batches under my belt.  I read the post of putting the honey in the lye, but the whole volcano thing scares me so I still add it to my oils. Today I warmed the oils to 105 and added two tablespoons of honey. I haven’t mixed in the goats milk lye yet because that in itself has presented another problem.  I put the lye over frozen milk in an ice bath but it turned out grainy. I can’t figure out what I am doing wrong.[emoji21]



Alot of people seem to do 50:50 water to lye so say 100g lye also use 100g water for the lye solution then add the goats milk as the other 50% of the liquid. Iv done this method with aloe vera gel and i used half the water to mix in the activated charcoal and clay i added to a face soap i made last week. Maybe try it that way round next time? I have made soap by using the goats milk as all the liquid and its gone ok but if im honest i prefer the 50/50 option because that way i dont have to spend ages adding the lye to the milk and i had an issue with undissolved lye in the milk i noticed it before i mixed but it was only because i was stirring lots and following directions i found online on how to add the lye to the milk. Could the grainyness be undissolved lye?

Edit
Maybe try using the forum calc and see how you like it? Iv got sm3 on my pc and i get slight variations of lye amount on the compared to other sites. I get kinda confused by the different terminology used sometimes i dont see why there cant just be a standard and stick to that. Because using sm3 means going on my pc n having a play as opposed to using my ohone and printing it via my phone i tend to just use the forum calc. Im inheriting my dads laptop hopefully soon so will use sm3 more often then. Iv realised that however useful sm3 is that it has no real benifit while your in my phase of just having a test. Plus my desk chair is beyond uncomfy after about 10 minutes iv got a nice leather chair arriving soon though so that will change


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## Jenniffer (Jan 28, 2019)

Chris_S said:


> Alot of people seem to do 50:50 water to lye so say 100g lye also use 100g water for the lye solution then add the goats milk as the other 50% of the liquid. Iv done this method with aloe vera gel and i used half the water to mix in the activated charcoal and clay i added to a face soap i made last week. Maybe try it that way round next time? I have made soap by using the goats milk as all the liquid and its gone ok but if im honest i prefer the 50/50 option because that way i dont have to spend ages adding the lye to the milk and i had an issue with undissolved lye in the milk i noticed it before i mixed but it was only because i was stirring lots and following directions i found online on how to add the lye to the milk. Could the grainyness be undissolved lye?
> 
> Edit
> Maybe try using the forum calc and see how you like it? Iv got sm3 on my pc and i get slight variations of lye amount on the compared to other sites. I get kinda confused by the different terminology used sometimes i dont see why there cant just be a standard and stick to that. Because using sm3 means going on my pc n having a play as opposed to using my ohone and printing it via my phone i tend to just use the forum calc. Im inheriting my dads laptop hopefully soon so will use sm3 more often then. Iv realised that however useful sm3 is that it has no real benifit while your in my phase of just having a test. Plus my desk chair is beyond uncomfy after about 10 minutes iv got a nice leather chair arriving soon though so that will change



Thanks Chris_S, I’ll have to give that a try.  Hope you get your laptop soon


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## Chris_S (Jan 28, 2019)

Jenniffer said:


> Thanks Chris_S, I’ll have to give that a try.  Hope you get your laptop soon



He promised it me in abput a month im house sitting for someone around then so hope its sorted by then so i have some basic form of entertinment.

Does the instructions i gave make sense? I read them again and realised it could be misinterpreted becajse of the way i worded it. So ill try again lol i mean mix the 50/50 solution together leave too cool to desired temp and add the milk afterwards iv only done it with water/clay mix and aloe vera gel but i added it to my warm oils just make sure the milk isnt too cold or it could cause false trace.


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