# What are your best practices for preventing soda ash?



## SoapMakerDeluxe (Mar 26, 2016)

In my latest batch, I used a soap mold (minimal soda ash) and an improvised soap mold (a square cardboard box lined with freezer paper) which resulted in thin bars. The real soap mold bars are mostly good with minimal soda ash, but there's a lot on the thin bars. I looked it up and saw that having thin bars makes soda ash more likely.

But there is a little bit on even the good thick bars. Not as much  but a little. Assuming they were covered properly, what are some good ways to prevent this?


----------



## KristaY (Mar 26, 2016)

The one thing that's made a big difference for me is using a water discount. When I used "full water" I got mad ash on most of my batches. I now use a water:lye ratio of 1.8:1 and I rarely get ash, or just a small amount. Certain FO's will cause more ash too and I have no idea why. Every time I use Nag Champa I get very thick ash no matter what I do with my water discount.

So if I do end up with ash I run the loaf under the faucet and rub it off with my fingers. If it's thick I rub it off with panty hose. But there are times it goes with my design so I leave it be.


----------



## Muskette (Mar 26, 2016)

I've done a lot of searching and reading about soda ash and how to prevent it, since most of my soaps have decorative tops and can't be covered or rinsed off. There really doesn't seem to be any definitive answer on the subject, but my interpretation of what I've read suggests that ash formation has a lot to do with the temperature of the soap and the evaporation rate of excess water in the first couple of days before saponification is finished.
Personally, the only way I've been able to prevent ash is to soap with a high lye concentration (~40%) and room temperature oils/lye. I'd love to find a better way though, since I prefer to gel my soaps. Also, many FOs accelerate at such a high lye concentration. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread!


----------



## shunt2011 (Mar 26, 2016)

I agree with using a water discount and I've found that gelling and leaving it covered until it's cool makes a huge difference. I rarely get ash.


----------



## SoapMakerDeluxe (Mar 26, 2016)

KristaY said:


> The one thing that's made a big difference for me is using a water discount. When I used "full water" I got mad ash on most of my batches. I now use a water:lye ratio of 1.8:1 and I rarely get ash, or just a small amount.



Interesting, so maybe I could just plug this into the next batch for the soap calc.


> Certain FO's will cause more ash too and I have no idea why



Sorry, what are FO's? I'm new (ish) here.


----------



## Kamahido (Mar 26, 2016)

FO=Fragrance Oils


----------



## ngian (Mar 26, 2016)

Also when a fragrance oil accelerates the saponification, the soda ash phenomenon is reduced.


----------



## Kamahido (Mar 26, 2016)

I found when I added 2% beeswax to my recipe the soda ash was greatly reduced.


----------



## SuzieOz (Mar 26, 2016)

I find I'm less likely to get soda ash the hotter I soap (which seems to be opposite of what Muskette experiences above ^) So If I soap hot and my soap goes through a full gel so that it has that waxy appearance when done it will have very little ash, if any.

So when I want a swirly design and soap at lower temperatures to keep the mix fluid, I'm more likely to get ash. Hmmmm ... also watching with interest.


----------



## Saipan (Mar 30, 2016)

I've found the same with beeswax.


----------



## IrishLass (Mar 30, 2016)

It's rare that I ever get ash, although it does happen from time to time. The times that I do get it, it is thankfully very light/thin and washes right off with a little bit of water.

In my earlier years of soaping (before I started using the method I shall spell out below), I used to get ash much more often. The worst cases of ash I ever got were when I tried to prevent gel, or when I unmolded and cut too soon. 

My method: I mostly soap with a 33% lye concentration, my usual soaping temps are between 110F - 120F (sometimes a little higher, depending), I pour at med-thick trace into well-insulated wood molds complete with covers, I completely gel my soaps by placing in a pre-warmed 110F oven, which I then turn off as soon as my filled mold is placed inside, and I don't uncover my mold or unmold/cut until the soap has completely cooled to room temp. The only exceptions to that are my salt bars and my 100% CO soaps. I cut those when they are still hot or I'll never be able to cut them. lol


 IrishLass


----------



## RobertBarnett (Mar 30, 2016)

I read in a book that you should spray the top of your soap with 91% alcohol and that that should eliminate the ash. I have never done it as I have yet to get ash.

Robert


----------



## Kamahido (Mar 30, 2016)

RobertBarnett said:


> I read in a book that you should spray the top of your soap with 91% alcohol and that that should eliminate the ash. I have never done it as I have yet to get ash.
> 
> Robert



Are you sure about the percent of alcohol? I have tried that method several times and it INCREASED the amount of soda ash from negligible to noticeable.


----------



## TeresaT (Mar 30, 2016)

IrishLass, I'm with you on part of the process. I don't get ash when I soap fairly warm (as in summer time with no air conditioner), cover my mold and put it in a pre-heated oven.  I  prefer to soap at "room" temperature, so soaping in the summer is better for me than during cold weather. If I don't cover and force gel my soaps, I get a lot of ash.  The last few batches I made were test batches and I let them gel in my small bathroom with the door closed while the heater was on.  They didn't develop ash because that room is like a little sauna!  But the few batches before that, where I didn't force gel and just left them (covered) on the shelf did develop ash.  Admittedly, the plastic wrap wasn't exactly secure on any of them because I didn't want to mess up the tops.


----------



## shunt2011 (Mar 30, 2016)

I too use less water, insulate and leave covered until I'm ready to unmold. I also give it a good spray of 91% alcohol and rarely get ash.


----------



## cmzaha (Mar 30, 2016)

Lately I seem to get ash on every batch so I just live with it. I have a lavender 40/42 that ashes so badly you can literally roll it off. I am starting to blame it on gelling, since I learned my problems with separation in my early days of soaping was from the high water I went back to gelling my soaps. Now I am in ash heaven. I soap 33-35% lye concentration at room temp so maybe you all can tell me why it is the opposite for me. I had no where near the ash problems when I put my soaps in the freezer to deter gel. Yep, figure that one out everyone... Never did I find alcohol to help one tiny bit


----------



## Swampy (Mar 30, 2016)

Have never had Soda ash when I used the Oven process


----------



## penelopejane (Mar 30, 2016)

I think they say to use isopropyl alcohol.

Is that what people are successfully using?


----------



## TwystedPryncess (Mar 31, 2016)

This is what I do when I don't forget to do it, although it sounds like experimentation is necessary. Climate and recipe could affect every batch.

My best prevention practices, and I live in a humid climate:

Spray with


----------



## TwystedPryncess (Mar 31, 2016)

Well then. Frodo wanted me to post. He head butted the new phone and I'm having trouble locating the edit button. 

Spray with the 91% Isopropyl alcohol , regular Walmart kind. Cover with plastic cellophane. I poof up the cover if I have raised decorated tops. 

I've found my ash continues to develop over the curing time, if it is going to happen, so if I am really concerned about, for example, a dark colored raised top, I keep mine covered after the cut. Just the same loose cellophane topper, although after the soap is hardened I can get a bit closer/tighter with it.

Afterwards, if it is still in curls or swirls etc, I use pantyhose or a  small coarse paintbrush. It can be time consuming to remove ash in the little curly bits but I have compared my soaps before and after and it's worth it to me. 

So there we go, rambling and didn't say a whole lot, but hope that helps.


----------



## dixiedragon (Mar 31, 2016)

I very rarely get ash (even my salt bars don't have ash). I have no idea of the mechanics behind it, so my general process:

I use tap water. I use 35% water (percentage of oil weight). My oils are about 100 and my lye is room temp. I gel. I cure my soaps in a room with a dehumidifier.


----------



## SuzieOz (Mar 31, 2016)

penelopejane said:


> I think they say to use isopropyl alcohol.
> 
> Is that what people are successfully using?



Yes that's what I use, 99%. I believe it works.


----------



## mishmish (Apr 8, 2016)

I used to get a lot of ash on lavender soap in particular.  I usually prefer to soap at cooler temperatures, but I found that if I used very warm oils and lye, there was much less ash on the lavender soap.  Also, spraying with isopropyl alcohol does seem to help - I usually do it a couple of times while it coming to gell state to get a nice even mist over all of the top, then leave it alone as it cools down, covered.


----------



## dillsandwitch (Apr 8, 2016)

I have tried the alcohol thing. It doesn't work for me. I have been using some of the 96% "heads" I get from running my still. That stuff is good if you want to set things on fire or throw in the eyes of your enemy. Also makes good window cleaner. Just doesnt help with ash on soap.

I have found since I have switched from using "full water" to 33% lye concentration and cpop my soaps I'm not getting ash anymore or if I do ts really light. 

I made a batch today at 40% cpop so will see how that goes over the coming few days


----------



## DeeAnna (Apr 8, 2016)

I agree that less water in the recipe tends to reduce the amount of ash. At 30% to 33% lye concentration, I will get a thin film of ash on the top of some soaps, but seldom much more than that. When a bunch of us were doing the infamous "super lye heavy" Andalusian castile experiments about 2 years ago, we were using around 15% NaOH concentration to make this soap. The ash that formed on these soaps was impressive. A few bars looked like they were growing fur or a coating of fluffy snowflakes.

I believe I get less ash when I soap in the winter (less humid) months compared to summertime when the humidity runs 80% or higher.


----------



## galaxyMLP (Apr 8, 2016)

I made a batch once with 50% water as percent of oils because I wanted very intricate swirls. I'll never do that again! The ash was sooo bad that you couldn't even see the design since it was a slab.

I get more ash on non-gelled soaps as I do with gelled soaps. I get no ash on my soaps with a 45% lye concentration when I gel them. If I don't, I get a very very thin coating. On my 33% lye concentration batches, I regularly get a thin coating of ash on the tops of my loaf. Some scents it's worse than others. I also notice if I cut too early that I'm more likely to get ash (when the loaf is still warm). If I allow it to cool in the oven completely before cutting, I get a lot less ash. I'm in a very humid environment although I'm not sure that has any effect. 

I am somewhat convinced that getting too close to my soaps when they are not finished saponifiying, and they are uncovered and I breathe on them that the likely hood of ash goes up. I could be crazy there! I was going to test it one day but small amounts of ash really don't bug me much.


----------



## navigator9 (Apr 8, 2016)

I've found that for me, it's easier to remove it than to try to prevent it. I used to cover the top of the soap after pouring with saran wrap. The wrap has to touch the surface of the soap, and you know how much fun it is to deal with saran wrap, so imagine trying to get it smoothly over the top of your soap. Then for years, I sprayed with alcohol. I think it helped a bit, but I found it made the tops of my soaps kind of sticky. And then one day, I was watching a youtube video by Ariane Arsenault, where she took a whole loaf of soap, still in its silicone liner, and held it under the faucet, running warm water over the top to remove ash. I smacked myself on the forehead and thought "Now why didn't I ever think of that???" It was one of those light bulb moments...you do the whole loaf at once. It can be done bar by bar, but this is_* so *_much easier. Steam also works, if you have one of those clothes steamers. But it's so simple to just hold the whole darn thing under the faucet, that since that day, I've never done anything else. Hope this helps.


----------



## Parascheva1014 (Feb 7, 2021)

After reading through this and everything else I could find (I'm a new soaper) It seems like people are having a lot of seemingly contradictory experiences. Some think soaping at room temperature prevents it and some think at high and I'm just wondering if possible temperature has nothing at all to do with it and if the issue might not be humidity and evaporation rates in addition to speed of saponification. So higher temps works because it speeds up evaporation rates but maybe the people doing it at room temp find that works because however they are heating oils or whatever is creating higher humidity in the room. Please tell me if any of this just sounds completely stupid. I'm just trying to make sense of the completely different experience people are having.


----------



## AliOop (Feb 7, 2021)

Part of the reason for different experiences is that no two people are using the exact same recipe (oils, ingredient temps, colors, fragrances, additives) or process (emulsion v. medium trace, for instance). Nor are they making them in identical environments (heat, humidity, air exposure). All of those things affect whether one gets ash, and how easy it is to remove it.

For instance, with some of my recipes, it would do no good to wash the whole loaf of soap before cutting - because the ash shows up later, over time. It's best if I wait till the bars are cured if I want to remove the ash for good.

So yes, you will see many different suggestions. All of them work for some, but few work for all.


----------



## Parascheva1014 (Feb 8, 2021)

so basically what you are saying is that this is 100% a trial and error process.


----------



## Kamahido (Feb 8, 2021)

I eliminated mine by using 2% Beeswax, forcing gel, and by using a tighter water:lye ratio. Haven't had any soda ash is over a hundred batches.


----------



## xavalyss (Feb 8, 2021)

I cover the batch with a strip of silicone, then the wooden lid of the mold.  Leave until completely cold, then a few hours after. I never get ash.


----------



## JuliaNegusuk (Feb 9, 2021)

I never used to get ash until the day I certified my recipe for sale, then I got worse ash every time I made it!  I always used to refrigerate my soaps to prevent gel as gelling messes up my natural colours.  But the ash seemed to affect the inside and bottom corners of the soap as well as on top so I tried cpoping in desperation despite the effect on the colours but I still didn't find it really prevented ash.  Covering didn't help as most of the ash seemed to start on the corners at the bottom of the mould.  In fact mine were always fine until a few days after unmoulding when the ash and crumbliness would just start to develop.  I always soaped at 33% because everyone seemed to recommend this for preventing ash.  Finally I read a thread about someone who reduced their water further and got results and I took my water ratio right down to 1.5:1.  This has worked, my last batch had no ash and refrigerating them to prevent gel has meant my lovely natural colours are back.

So my view is that all the other suggested options, cpoping, soaping at higher or lower temperatures, covering (I never tried alcohol except to drink after each failed batch!), None of these worked for me but considerably discounting my water did.  Maybe you don't need to discount as radically as I did, but it works for me.


----------



## Katie68121 (Oct 2, 2021)

Im on the soda ash struggle as well. I usually do not get ash if I pour at a thicker trace, but I notice I get it more when Im trying to do swirls or some design that requires a lighter trace. Today I unmolded and cut my lavender bar and had quite a lot of ash, im thinking due to light trace pour PLUS the lavender EO. I have tried alcohol spray but didnt seem to work for me. I have never tried CPOP and perhaps I should give it a go. I do sometimes cover with saran wrap but that tends to leave water spots on the top. 

QUESTION: If I want to steam the ash, when should I do this? Also Ive read running the bars under cold water helps? But when do I do this? Im thinking closer to the full cure time? Thanks!


----------



## Carly B (Oct 4, 2021)

RobertBarnett said:


> I read in a book that you should spray the top of your soap with 91% alcohol and that that should eliminate the ash. I have never done it as I have yet to get ash.
> 
> Robert


I spray the top of my soap with 91% alcohol and it works fine on the top.  In fact, the 91% alcohol on top has stopped my soap from discoloring on top, which just looks odd when the rest of it has darkened. (see pic below)  And I use a 33% lye concentration.

But I get ash on the edges and cut sides after I cut. And if I use individual molds, like my stone shaped silicone mold, the whole thing ashes up.


----------



## Zing (Oct 4, 2021)

Carly B said:


> I spray the top of my soap with 91% alcohol and it works fine on the top.  In fact, the 91% alcohol on top has stopped my soap from discoloring on top, which just looks odd when the rest of it has darkened. (see pic below)  And I use a 33% lye concentration.
> 
> But I get ash on the edges and cut sides after I cut. And if I use individual molds, like my stone shaped silicone mold, the whole thing ashes up.
> 
> View attachment 61447


Like you, after pouring my loaf molds, I spray with alcohol, cover with plastic wrap, cardboard, and then a pile of towels to gel.  I have never gotten soda ash since doing these steps.

I am used to unmolding in 24 hours.  My leftover batter goes into individual cavity molds the size of one bar.  When I unmolded them after 24 hours, the sprayed top stayed ash free -- but all other surfaces got it big time.  Now I leave the soap in the mold several days before unmolding.  Perhaps you can try waiting (I know, I know) to unmold?


----------



## Carly B (Oct 4, 2021)

Zing said:


> Like you, after pouring my loaf molds, I spray with alcohol, cover with plastic wrap, cardboard, and then a pile of towels to gel.  I have never gotten soda ash since doing these steps.
> 
> I am used to unmolding in 24 hours.  My leftover batter goes into individual cavity molds the size of one bar.  When I unmolded them after 24 hours, the sprayed top stayed ash free -- but all other surfaces got it big time.  Now I leave the soap in the mold several days before unmolding.  Perhaps you can try waiting (I know, I know) to unmold?



WAIT!?!?!?!?!  What is the "wait" of which you speak?


----------



## Purple heather natural sk (Oct 5, 2021)

Carly B said:


> WAIT!?!?!?!?!  What is the "wait" of which you speak?


I think I was put on the Earth, this time, to learn patience... I am still here, still learning


----------



## Highfive (Oct 5, 2021)

After pouring into loaf mold depending on the formula spray with 91% alcohol and wrap with plastic wrap. In other cases spraying with 91% alcohol works perfect.


----------

