# Recipe Request - coconut and sunflower



## serenaglynn (Dec 5, 2018)

I’m looking for a basic recipe that just uses coconut oil and sunflower oil - as these are so readily available for me. Many thanks in advance. Xx


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## shunt2011 (Dec 5, 2018)

Just run different amount through a soap calculator until you like it.   I would use more sunflower than coconut.  Not more than 25-30%.   Not going to be the greatest bar of soap.   Or you can make 80% Coconut, 20% Sunflower and a 20% SF.  Add salt at 30-100% of the weight for a salt bar.  Either way they will both need a longer cure.


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## IrishLass (Dec 5, 2018)

If it were me, I would try 72% sunflower oil and 28% coconut oil with a 5% superfat/lye discount. If you have access to high oleic sunflower oil, all the better, because it has properties similar to olive oil, i.e.,  much more oleic acid/much less linoleic acid, which will help reduce the chances of your soap getting DOS (dreaded orange spots/rancidity. A high linoleic acid content reduces the shelf life of an oil. The linoleic acid content is very high in regular sunflower oil, but very low in high oleic (HO) sunflower oil.


IrishLass


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## serenaglynn (Dec 5, 2018)

I could always add olive oil too. I’ve lost the link to the soap calc tho,,


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## shunt2011 (Dec 5, 2018)

serenaglynn said:


> I could always add olive oil too. I’ve lost the link to the soap calc tho,,


soapcalc.net or soapee.com
I would personally add some olive unless you know your sunflower is high or mid oleic.   Otherwise it may go rancid quicker.


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## serenaglynn (Dec 5, 2018)




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## amd (Dec 5, 2018)

Are you using fractionated coconut oil or solid coconut oil (76)? I've never made soap with FCO, so I don't know how well it works.
50% CO is a lot, although you do have a good SF number for high CO. You may find this soap to be very drying.
Make sure your Sunflower is high oleic. From personal experience, I used a "not high oleic" sunflower oil and everything over 15% developed DOS very quickly.

Looking at these numbers:





For me, this soap would not be a good soap - hardness is probably deceiving because of the CO, this soap will likely be used up very quickly.
Cleansing, as mentioned, will be high. Not always a good thing.
Conditioning is under the ideal - but I usually ignore this number anyways.
I usually go for bubbly and creamy settings in the mid-range.
This is where my recipe sits:


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## serenaglynn (Dec 5, 2018)

Thanks, it’s been a few years since I’ve made soap so I’m a bit rusty. Using hard coconut oil. Should I reduce the amount of the coconut and replace it with sUnflower? Does the fragrance or EO look ok to you?


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## KiwiMoose (Dec 6, 2018)

amd said:


> This is where my recipe sits:


Wow AMD - I struggle to get hardness above 40 in any of the recipes I'm calculating.  Is it due to my lack of animal fat and or palm oil?  I don't use either of these.  Does it matter that the best hardness i can manage is about 38?


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## Kamahido (Dec 6, 2018)

KiwiMoose said:


> Wow AMD - I struggle to get hardness above 40 in any of the recipes I'm calculating.  Is it due to my lack of animal fat and or palm oil?  I don't use either of these.  Does it matter that the best hardness i can manage is about 38?


If you want a harder bar of soap you have to use more hard oils.


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## shunt2011 (Dec 6, 2018)

You need to use either palm, lard, tallow or butters (shea, cocoa, mango etc) to get a harder bar.  But then you look at 100% OO and after a good long cure it's a hard bar of soap.  I just don't like high OO soap.


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## amd (Dec 6, 2018)

KiwiMoose said:


> Wow AMD - I struggle to get hardness above 40 in any of the recipes I'm calculating.  Is it due to my lack of animal fat and or palm oil?  I don't use either of these.  Does it matter that the best hardness i can manage is about 38?


I have 65% hard oils in my recipe, but I really wasn't formulating my recipe with the hardness number in mind. I was looking for something low coconut oil that didn't leave my skin feeling itchy - I have really dry skin, I'm scaly looking even in the summer - so I wound up with a recipe low in CO, high in tallow/lard with shea and cocoa butter. My point for OP was the majority of the ranges are out of line with recommended ranges [ranges don't always mean bad soap, some soaps out of range are nice soap because they use nice oils, I don't think high CO, OO & SFO will be a nice soap]. If you're happy with your soap I don't see a problem with a 38 hardness. Hardness doesn't translate to "long lasting".


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## serenaglynn (Dec 6, 2018)

help! I’ve played with this a few times but can’t seem to get the creaminess value over 13. I don’t want to use anything other than the 3 oils listed.


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## jcandleattic (Dec 6, 2018)

It's specific oils that will create creaminess. If you don't want to use other oils, you probably will not be able to raise your numbers a whole lot. 

you could try raising your OO, and dropping your sunflower and coconut oils. 

I would do OO at 40-50%, CO at 15% with the remainder being your sunflower and see what that gives you.


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## dixiedragon (Dec 6, 2018)

100% olive oil gives a creamy of 17.


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## shunt2011 (Dec 6, 2018)

Also, your SF is way too high.  25% will not be a nice soap.  Try switching your Olive and Sunflower and lower your CO.


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## serenaglynn (Dec 6, 2018)

That didn’t raise it at all. Is vegetable oil a viable option rather than sunflower oil?


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## shunt2011 (Dec 6, 2018)

Use 60% OO, 25% Sunflower & 15% CO.   Ups your creaminess to 15.  May be the best you can do with limited oils.   I wouldn't use vegetable oil unless you know exactly what's in it and can find a sap value for it.  

You're limiting your possibilities with very few choices.


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## dixiedragon (Dec 6, 2018)

I don't know what factors Soap Calc uses to calculator "creaminess". And their definition may be different than yours. What do you want?

100% castor oil gives a creamy rating of 90.

Here's a recipe that a lot of people here have described as "creamy".
Avocado Oil: 30%
Castor Oil: 10%
Olive Oil: 40%
Shea Butter: 10%
Soybean Oil: 10%

This is actually Lindy's shampoo bar recipe but we (general consensus, obviously there are some people with different opinions) don't recommend soap for hair.


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## cmzaha (Dec 6, 2018)

I would agree with Shunt .  CO does not make a creamy soap it makes a bubbly soap. If you are using Sunflower HO you could split the OO and Sunflower. 

Just for future thought Lard/tallow together make a super creamy bar 25/40%.


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## serenaglynn (Dec 6, 2018)

Gonna try adding rape seed. I don’t know what kind of qualities that oil has though.


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## Obsidian (Dec 6, 2018)

Rape seed, aka canola can lead to rancidity if too much is used. Keep it under 15%

I like lard or shea butter to add creaminess. This will help explain some of the different oils used

https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-...ks/single-oil-cold-process-soap-lather-tests/


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## Dean (Dec 6, 2018)

Do you want creamy lather?  If so, I recommend adding shea butter.


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## shunt2011 (Dec 6, 2018)

She only wants to use Sunflower, Olive and Coconut......very limited recipe and quality soap wise.


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## Dean (Dec 6, 2018)

I don't think anyone here tries to achieve "creamy" lather this way. 

The reason you can't raise the number is because your selected oils lack the required acids as indicated above.

Palmitics and stearics come from animal fat, rainforest depleting palm, soy wax and butters such as shea.

Ricinioleic comes from castor.


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## serenaglynn (Dec 6, 2018)

shunt2011 said:


> She only wants to use Sunflower, Olive and Coconut......very limited recipe and quality soap wise.


Think I will add rapeseed.


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## Dean (Dec 6, 2018)

serenaglynn said:


> Think I will add rapeseed.



Its low in  stearic and palimitic and has no Ricinioleic.




Formulating guidance.....https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/secret-to-the-best-soap-recipe/


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## shunt2011 (Dec 6, 2018)

serenaglynn said:


> Think I will add rapeseed.



And is subject to rancidity.   Don't use more than 10-15%.   Also, if you go back and look at some of your older posts from quite some time ago, it seems you were trying to do the same thing and received some great information back then, very similar to what you are receiving now.


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## serenaglynn (Dec 6, 2018)

shunt2011 said:


> And is subject to rancidity.   Don't use more than 10-15%.   Also, if you go back and look at some of your older posts from quite some time ago, it seems you were trying to do the same thing and received some great information back then, very similar to what you are receiving now.


Yes it’s been along time since I made soap! I’ve forgotten everything.


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## lenarenee (Dec 6, 2018)

Would you be interested in adding coconut milk or other milks?


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## Primrose (Dec 6, 2018)

What makes you set on raising the creamy number? If it's only because "the numbers say it should be higher" throw it out the window,  make the soap and see what you think

The hardness number only refers to how quickly you can get it out of the mould. 

Soapee does a longevity number but you can find it on soapcalc by finding hardness minus cleansing


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## serenaglynn (Dec 6, 2018)

I need to use oils that are freely available where I live, So narrowed it down to a combo of rapeseed, coconut, sunflower and olive. 
It’s a bit limiting I know. I don’t want to use lard or palm either.


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## Nao (Dec 6, 2018)

I agree with the others, be careful with rapeseed oil and keep it low. However, do give it a try just to see how you like it. I use it at 10% in most of my soaps and I think it adds a nice creamy (even though the fatty acid profile says otherwise)  dimension to the lather. And do use citric acid or something else to post phone rancidity, it makes a huge difference.


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## Steve85569 (Dec 6, 2018)

Just for me - I would flip the coconut and olive percentages and use a SF of 3 to 5%. The recipe would need a longer cure time than one using more hard oils. ( Lard, Palm, shea).
No access to Crisco?

None of the oils you are using - if used at 100% would give a value of "creamy" over 17 ( olive oil). The fatty acid profile simply isn't there.


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## KiwiMoose (Dec 7, 2018)

Castor adds creamy too.


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## penelopejane (Dec 9, 2018)

Read jcandleattic’s post number 14.

I wouldn’t use rape seed oil in soap.
Forget the numbers in the soap calcs for hardness etc when dealing with OO soap. The calcs are wrong for OO soap.

Good OO makes a great soap. Luckily, you have access to good olive oil. Try the suggestion by jcandleattic.

As kiwimoose says if you can add 5% castor oil it will help with bubbles and creaminess.


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## Candybee (Dec 9, 2018)

I love using sunflower oil in my soap. But if you are buying your sunflower oil from your local grocer's it is regular sunflower oil and not the high oleic. There is a huge difference in these oils fatty acid profiles. Regular sunflower oil is high in linoleic fatty acid where high oleic is high in oleic fatty acid. 

I use regular sunflower oil and not more than 10-20% of my recipe depending on the fatty acid profiles.  When you put your recipe together on the soap calculator make sure your linoleic stays at 15 or lower and your iodine is 70 or lower. Any higher and you risk getting DOS.

You can make a lovely skin loving soap using olive oil, coconut oil, and sunflower oil. Although I would add some palm or lard or tallow for the extra creaminess and hardness you may like in your soap.


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## Chris_S (Dec 9, 2018)

Nao said:


> I agree with the others, be careful with rapeseed oil and keep it low. However, do give it a try just to see how you like it. I use it at 10% in most of my soaps and I think it adds a nice creamy (even though the fatty acid profile says otherwise)  dimension to the lather. And do use citric acid or something else to post phone rancidity, it makes a huge difference.



how do you use citric acid? do you mix it with oil or water from the recipe? then add it in at trace?


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## penelopejane (Dec 9, 2018)

Chris_S said:


> how do you use citric acid? do you mix it with oil or water from the recipe? then add it in at trace?



You add CA to the water before the lye, stir it until clear then add your NaOH. 
It reduces soap scum.
You need to add more NaOH to neutralise it. 
So if you want 1% CA and you are making a 2000g of oils soap 2000x1/100 = 20g CA.
20g CA x 6.24/10 =  12.5g extra NaOH in your recipe amount. 

See DeeAnna's notes for more info:
https://classicbells.com/soap/citricAcid.html


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## Chris_S (Dec 9, 2018)

penelopejane said:


> You add CA to the water before the lye, stir it until clear then add your NaOH.
> It reduces soap scum.
> You need to add more NaOH to neutralise it.
> So if you want 1% CA and you are making a 2000g of oils soap 2000x1/100 = 20g CA.
> ...



awesome thank you very much too late to get my head round that tonight but will definatly give that link a look at tomorrow. Will a soap calc work this out for you or is there still maths involved to work out how much of everything is needed?


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## penelopejane (Dec 9, 2018)

Chris_S said:


> awesome thank you very much too late to get my head round that tonight but will definatly give that link a look at tomorrow. Will a soap calc work this out for you or is there still maths involved to work out how much of everything is needed?



No it won't.  That is the only maths that is needed. It's pretty simple maths though. 
Just keep that formula and put in the amount of CA you need.  1% of your oils.


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