# Making MP from scratch..



## hmlove1218 (Aug 8, 2014)

I apologize is this is in the wrong place.  I couldn't decided since it's technically MP, but also not..

I've seen this link on here before and I filed it away for use at a later date:
http://oilandbutter.blogspot.com/2014/02/how-to-make-your-own-melt-and-pour-soap.html

I'd like to make my own MP base using this method, but I'd like to use my own recipe.  I was wondering if anyone has experimented with this and used different oils?  I'm afraid that if I use too many "soft" oils, that the resulting MP will be too soft since it's 50% glycerin.

The recipe it calls for is:
Coconut 32 %
Palm 32 %
Castor 32 %
Stearic Acid 4 %
SF 3 %

I don't normally use palm oil and would like to sub in different oils/butters.  Any thoughts?


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## Meganmischke (Aug 8, 2014)

A couple of questions. .. do you need it to be super clear? Do you have access to propylene glycol?  Do you have an aversion to animal fats? And most importantly have you watched the 2 good earth spa videos on YouTube?


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## hmlove1218 (Aug 9, 2014)

No I don't need it to be clear and part of he reason I want to make it is to avoid propylene glycol. I don't mind animal fats, but I usually don't use them. If you're referring to the video where a woman uses this same recipe and technique then yes I've seen most of it. My computer wouldn't let me watch the last quarter though so I don't really know how it turned out for her.


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## Meganmischke (Aug 9, 2014)

I have made it a few ways and I don't think I used palm. Is the video you watched in english? I have made it with tallow and lard. If you make it according to the website directions it is ok just very very sweaty. The less glycerin at the end the better.  Personally propylene glycol is not any worse than anything else.  I know there are alot of misconceptions about it. Can I ask why you don't want to use it?


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## hmlove1218 (Aug 9, 2014)

Mostly because of the misconceptions. People think its a very bad thing so I really don't want to put it on my labels


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## Meganmischke (Aug 9, 2014)

I see well did you watch the video in english or the one in Russian?


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## Meganmischke (Aug 9, 2014)

Are you just going to use it for embeds or full bars?


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## hmlove1218 (Aug 9, 2014)

The one I watched was in English. I plan to use it for wa bit of both


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## Meganmischke (Aug 9, 2014)

Try a small batch and see how you like it. As far as only using glycerin to dissolve the soap you are going to have to really keep your temps low when you go to melt it down. It can be kind of a pain to work with. 

I personally think this base is ok in a pinch.  I also feel that with a few additional ingredients it could  be a great alternative to the sls mp. There is a great book on Amazon about making mp, I don't think you would be interested in the recipes. There is a lot of info on ingredients and just a ton of great general info.


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## hmlove1218 (Aug 9, 2014)

Hmm.. I might have to take a look at it. What's it called?


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## hmlove1218 (Aug 9, 2014)

And thank you so much for your help! I have a pound if glycerin coming in Monday that Ill experiment with. I usually melt in a double boiler on low so temp shouldn't be too hard to control.


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## seven (Aug 9, 2014)

i'm pretty sure the book Megan was talking about is the book by kayla fioravanti, i think it's called making mp base from scratch. the good earth spa videos are also very good (learned a lot from them). 

i make mp base quite a lot. i personally don't suggest 50% glycerin because of the sweating issue. with the PG, i've not personally done it, but i think you can subbed it with high proof alcohol or everclear. sorbitol can also be replaced by sugar syrup. alcohol, glycerin, and sugar, those 3 are enough to make a more balanced mp base, as opposed to only using glycerin.
what's a bit tricky about making mp base (that's if you are after making a clear/transparant one) is getting the right proportion of solvents.


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## Meganmischke (Aug 9, 2014)

Yes it is by Kayla Fioravanti and it is called How to make melt and pour base from scratch.  Let us know how it turns out. ☺


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## hmlove1218 (Aug 9, 2014)

Thanks seven! For the sugar solution is it just 50/50 water and sugar? Hoe much would you suggest?


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## eucalypta (Aug 9, 2014)

seven said:


> i'm pretty sure the book Megan was talking about is the book by kayla fioravanti, i think it's called making mp base from scratch. the good earth spa videos are also very good (learned a lot from them).
> 
> i make mp base quite a lot. i personally don't suggest 50% glycerin because of the sweating issue. with the PG, i've not personally done it, but i think you can subbed it with high proof alcohol or everclear. sorbitol can also be replaced by sugar syrup. alcohol, glycerin, and sugar, those 3 are enough to make a more balanced mp base, as opposed to only using glycerin.
> what's a bit tricky about making mp base (that's if you are after making a clear/transparant one) is getting the right proportion of solvents.



+1
Actually the Fioravanti method is the one closest to manufactured MP.
Good Earth Spa follows more or less the same recipe (and so do I).

Sorbitol has an advantage over sugar: it also is a humectant (as far as it helps in a rinse of product).

Tip:
Keeping the temperature low, results in a less yellow soap.


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## hmlove1218 (Aug 9, 2014)

Thanks y'all for all the help! Ill have to order that book and read it.


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## seven (Aug 10, 2014)

eucalypta made a very good point about temp. try to keep it 75C and less. the sugar solution, yup 50-50 sounds fine.


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## eucalypta (Aug 10, 2014)

hmlove1218 said:


> Thanks y'all for all the help! Ill have to order that book and read it.


I might save you the $$$

The same recipe is to be found here. (The Soapkitchen website)

_(After I already made numerous batches (SK being one of my main suppliers), I got the book for free on Amazon last year.)_


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## Meganmischke (Aug 10, 2014)

Though the recipes are great, there is a lot of other info. she did a great job of throughly explaining the ingredients. She also dedicates a couple chapters to running a business that is


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## Meganmischke (Aug 10, 2014)

Using gmp. Also, a little info on aromatherapy.  While I am all for saving money, I am happy I spent the $7.


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## eucalypta (Aug 10, 2014)

Meganmischke said:


> Though the recipes are great, there is a lot of other info. she did a great job of throughly explaining the ingredients. She also dedicates a couple chapters to running a business that is.
> 
> ...Also, a little info on aromatherapy. While I am all for saving money, I am happy I spent the $7.



Yeah, you're right; $7 is a bargain. 

On the other hand, it depends on your experience and knowledge of ingredients, how useful the rest of the information is. 

Also - if you're not a fan of tensides/surfactants; perhaps this way of soaping might not be your cup of tea.


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## hmlove1218 (Aug 11, 2014)

Shipment of glycerin came in today!! So here's the recipe I decided to try:

Olive - 35%
Coconut - 45%
Sunflower - 10%
Avocado - 10%
3% SF 

That's cooking at the moment. I'm thinking of using 50/50 glycerin and simple syrup to dissolve. Thoughts?

I didn't have any sorbitol, but I want to try it yo compare to the simple syrup.


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## eucalypta (Aug 11, 2014)

What happened today 

My SIL was given four soaps as a present from a colleague who vacationed on Bali (Indonesia).

He handed those to me with the question if it was good soap and if he could use it safely. 

The soap is transparent, with opaque shavings.
First impression: the soap is rather soft; pressing with a finger leaves a clear dent.

Looking at the ingredient list:

sucrose
Cocos Nucifera Oil
Elaeis Guineensis oil
Water
Sodium Hydroxide
Stearic Acid
Propylene glycol
Glycerine
Fragrance
Avena Sativa Meal (oat meal)
CI 16255
Tocopherol

Apart from the oatmeal - present in the opaque shavings, these ingredients could be a tweaking of the recipe used in the first post...

Speaking of coincidence.


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## Kyra (Aug 11, 2014)

*I tried a similar recipe*

Hi there! I made the original recipe Cee mentioned at the end of her blog post (the one posted on the Russian blog, which was a 50% coconut oil, 50% castor oil, no Palm and SA) and although the soap came out beautifully!!!! and quite translucent, it is soft and it sweats A LOT!!! It is very hot now in my part of the world, and that soap sweats like crazy. I made a few embeds out of it, you have to work fast, at really high temps, or the soap starts to thicken fast on you. I am not sure if Zacil and Cee's version is much different, I am planning to make it to see by comparison, and I am yet to use my embeds in CP soap. I get my soaps to full gel in the oven, with the light on all night and I've had bad luck with embeds melting due to the heat. I prefer to make them out of CP soap for that reason, that way I have better luck with them surviving the oven insulation stage.

Best of luck!

Kyra




hmlove1218 said:


> I apologize is this is in the wrong place.  I couldn't decided since it's technically MP, but also not..
> 
> I've seen this link on here before and I filed it away for use at a later date:
> http://oilandbutter.blogspot.com/2014/02/how-to-make-your-own-melt-and-pour-soap.html
> ...


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## hmlove1218 (Aug 11, 2014)

That's cool to hear! I was afraid to use that much castor oil because I didn't want it to be too soft.


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## Kyra (Aug 11, 2014)

It is quite soft. I am keeping it to use as decoration on my soap cakes and cupcakes so I did not use the soap for washing. By the look and texture of it though, it looks like it's going to melt pretty fast and yes, it gets easily scratched and nicked when handled. It also is covered and I mean covered with sweat! I am not sure I could use it as a regular M&P soap. I would think it's rather useful for embeds. M&P is so darn expensive here, no way I could buy it bulk to soap with it, and surely I wouldn't pay top buck to use it as decoration. So for my purpose, this made from scratch base is cheap and accessible and I can make it any time I want to. Now I am curious about how would that soap work as a... soap... I am going to go cut a slice .


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## hmlove1218 (Aug 12, 2014)

Really excited about the results! Its super bubbly and I don't find it at all drying. I was afraid I would with that much coconut oil. It seems to take color and fragrance well. It melts really easily but also forms a skin pretty quick so you have to work fast and keep it moving. I think next time ill do a 50/50 sorbitol and glycerin solvent mixture and see how that compares. I haven't noticed it sweating terribly yet, which surprised me. And its harder than I thought it would be. I'm pretty pleased!

My God at the typos...  That's what I get for posting from my phone.  Stupid autocorrect..


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## Kyra (Aug 12, 2014)

Which recipe did you end up making? The 50/50 CO and Castor Oil? Or the one with Stearic Acid and Palm?


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## hmlove1218 (Aug 12, 2014)

I actually came up with a recipe for the oils I had on hand:

Olive - 35%
Coconut - 45%
Sunflower - 10%
Avocado - 10%
3% SF

I'd love to get some stearic acid and try as well and see how that affects it. And of course I want to make one with shea, and one with cocoa, and one with honey.... The experimenting has just begun


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## Kyra (Aug 13, 2014)

Interesting mix of oils for that base. I am super happy it worked for you! What percentage of glycerin did you add to the paste? 

This is encouraging me to experiment further since I am not super happy with my recipe. I used 80% glycerin in mine (with a 50% CO and 50% Castor oil + NaOH) and I am thinking to go lower on the percentage to see if I get less sweat and more hardness. I don't care for translucency, as I will only be using the base for embeds, so working with other oils and less glycerin will be interesting to experiment with.

Here are the pics of the base I made. As you can see, there is sooo much sweat, I have a hard time picking up the block of soap, it slides,  right out of my hand. The translucency is pretty good as you can see from the photos I am posting, but note the already rounded edges after only one hand wash! So it melts fast! in the water. Translucency is not something I look for in my base -- hardness, lack of extreme sweat and being able to melt and pour simple embeds is what I am looking for.

Please share any of your other experiments


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## hmlove1218 (Aug 13, 2014)

You're transparency is definitely better than mine. I'm going to assume it has something to do with castor oil because I ended up using 100% glycerin plus the original 50% simple syrup because it wouldn't dissolve. Its very interesting because of I stir too quickly while melting, little tiny bubbles start floating around ha. I blame the syrup.

Ill have to go test one of the slices, but from the little scraps I've tried, I don't think it melts away that fast.


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## hmlove1218 (Aug 13, 2014)

My corners rounded slightly, but not nearly like yours did. I think that much castor oil plus the hovering yes for a really soft soap.


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## seven (Aug 13, 2014)

eucalypta said:


> What happened today
> 
> My SIL was given four soaps as a present from a colleague who vacationed on Bali (Indonesia).
> 
> ...



what's the name of the brand? was it desoap? i heard that one is pretty popular over there at the moment. there are TONS of soapmakers in Bali, with varying qualities. mostly retail for really cheap (2 bucks and less). desoap is around 4 bucks me thinks.


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## Kyra (Aug 13, 2014)

hmlove1218 said:


> You're transparency is definitely better than mine. I'm going to assume it has something to do with castor oil because I ended up using 100% glycerin plus the original 50% simple syrup because it wouldn't dissolve.



Aha! Good to know about the extra sugar solution. If I would have tried a recipe other than the one I have, I would have been stuck, not knowing why it doesn't dissolve and how can I fix it. Thanks for mentioning this!



hmlove1218 said:


> Its very interesting because of I stir too quickly while melting, little tiny bubbles start floating around ha. I blame the syrup.



I remember reading in some of the comments on You Tube or some blog about the bubbles floating around.  Didn't happen with my recipe.



hmlove1218 said:


> Ill have to go test one of the slices, but from the little scraps I've tried, I don't think it melts away that fast.



Yes, yours surely seems like a much harder soap. Mine melts even under all that sweat


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## hmlove1218 (Aug 13, 2014)

I might up the SF with the next batch. Even though it doesn't dry MY skin, I'm afraid others might find it drying simply because of the high CO. I understand that will mess with the clarity, but I'm not trying to produce a clear soap. At least not at through moment


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