# Shea butter + ? Soap



## Malianshea (Aug 30, 2016)

Hello
I just registered and english is not my mother tongue so sorry if I make some mistakes.

I've been saying for the last 3 weeks that tomorrow I make my first batch.

3 days ago I entered my ingredients in soap calc and another calculator and then an horrible answer came out:
Bubbly 0. :think:
I want to use shea butter mostly like 60% more or less and the rest of olive oil but my researches lead me to consider palm oil it's supposed to help with bubble troubles and it is also super affordable here in west africa. Once I had this information I went back to the calculator and the same answer came again. 

I want to make a 200 or 300 gr batch of soap.
The kind of soap we found in the super market not too hard. And I really want it creamy like Dove soap with a thin foam you see? could you help me with the proportions of oils lye and water so I can make my first soap? 
I  use cold process.

Thanks!


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## BattleGnome (Aug 31, 2016)

Could you post the recipe you tried in soap clac? It will help us figure out where your bubbles went.
 Could you also post the ingredients you have? There might be something you never thought of that works well in soap.


I also wouldn't put too much trust in the soap calc numbers. If you check 100% olive oil the numbers show a horrible bar of soap but centuries of soap makers prove differently. You won't get a perfect bar your first attempt, but you'll learn a lot by jumping in and making some soap.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Aug 31, 2016)

Welcome. 

A bar with that much of any sort of butter won't lather well at all, especially if you have no "bubbly" oils in there. 

Palm is not really an oil that helps the bubbles. Palm kernel oil is, as is coconut oil. 

Palm oil helps with the hardness of the bar, as lard and tallow also do. Butters can also do this, but at more than 30% in a recipe they really start to reduce the lather that you are aiming for. 

I would look at 
20% coconut
30% shea 
50% palm 
As a first draft of something along the lines that you were thinking. Personally, I don't like butters in soaps out of principle - for us here they are not a cheap ingredient and many people can't tell the difference between lard and Shea in a soap!

As for the lye amounts, you need to use a lye calculator- not only because it is good for you to do so, but also because someone here or in a soaping book can make typing mistakes and that can be dangerous. It's better for you to calculate it yourself. Google "soapcalc" or "soapee" for two examples. Soapee is a bit more user friendly (it's not as old as soapcalc)


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## cmzaha (Aug 31, 2016)

I am also not crazy about butters in soap, but with your location, I would assume, very easy access to shea I would want to use it too. I have made soap with 20% coconut oil, 65% shea, 15% soft oil, 5% castor. It was an interesting soap that actually sold well. hmmmm might have to make that one again sometime. I have a bar that is at least 5 yrs old which is 75% shea, 25% coconut Oil, it is actually a nice soap never acquired dos although not my favorite soap


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## navigator9 (Aug 31, 2016)

Soapmaking is all about balance, and every oil or butter you use contributes something to the final outcome... the soap's hardness, bubbles and conditioning.  It's a good idea to learn about these ingredients and what they do in soap, it will help you to formulate a balanced recipe. If you Google "properties of oils and butters in soapmaking", you'll get some results that will help to start you off in the right direction. Here's one of them, there are many.  http://www.naturesgardencandles.com/mas_assets/theme/ngc/pdf/soapoils.pdf 
You've received some good advice here, between that, and learning about the ingredients you have available to you, you'll be able to come up with a recipe that will make you happy. Most of us don't succeed with our first recipe, but it gives you a place to start. Take what you've got and tweak it until you love it! :-D


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## dixiedragon (Aug 31, 2016)

Malian, what oils do you have access to, besides shea? Coconut and palm kernel are great for lather. Castor is good too.

Somebody here has a recipe that uses 50% shea and their tip is to do a 2% superfat, instead of the "standard" 5%.

I would try:
60% shea
20% coconut
5% castor
15% olive


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## Malianshea (Sep 1, 2016)

Hello thanks for you answers. I didn't know you reply. For the recipe SB 90g olive oil 50 g and palm oil 60g. All the other oils you talk about are too expensive and I want to learn to create soaps I could sell so I'll better found something that is affordable and with appreciable quality for the skin. Olive oil and coconut oik are the same price here incredible when you know that it is ten times cheaper in the country it cames from (next to mine). Palm kernel oil is oil from the nut?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Sep 1, 2016)

If you want bubbles, you need some oil that creates a lot of bubbles. Coconut does that. 

At this stage I strongly suggest you don't even think about selling. Make up a batch with your recipe and the see how little it bubbles. There is a lot to learn before you should even be thinking about other people using your soaps, let alone paying for them


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## shunt2011 (Sep 1, 2016)

I agree with TEG.  You are a long way off to even begin to think about selling.  I suggest you make the recipe you posted and then test it.  I don't think it will be a very nice soap at all.  I like some bubbles.   Palm Oil is from the fruit and Palm Kernel Oil is from the nut.  Palm Oil does not help with bubbles but Palm Kernel will as it can be used with CO or alone.   Also, some Castor Oil would help with stabilizing the lather.

I recommend you read more on the forum and also research the qualities that different oils/butters etc will bring to the soap party.   Once you understand the qualities/properties of them in soap it will better help you to come up with a workable recipe.  But it takes time and lots of testing

Soapmaking is not something you can just decide to make one day and sell soon after.  It's also not cheap to do.


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## Malianshea (Sep 2, 2016)

Thank to each of you for your answers. But Wowwwww. I never ever talked about doing that right now! I talked about a goal not about the next step. I just want to focus on the oils I know I can easily get where I live with an affordable price for customers in the end. I think it is not that bad for a beginning (still don't talk about the next step).
I tried the recipe with kernel oil.
And I decided to let soapcalc because even with
40% shea butter
40% palm kernel oil
20% olive oils still no bubbles. Sniff

Tried with
45% shea butter
35% EvOo
10% coconut oil
10% castor oil
Still no bubbles.
So I tried on soapee as you said The Efficacious Gentleman and wonderful: I had 16 with bubbles. (You didn't stole your pseudo). I'm gonna try and let you all know about this. But what about the creamy part. What advise could you give me based to your experiences? Thx again.
 Also I would like a high lever of superfat 10% for dry skin. Rares are black skin people that can stay without body milk after a shower it's parts of daily habits like brushing your teeth. I read several experienced that talked aboit this amount but it can be risky with the final result right? I think I still don't habe enought information on that one.


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## dixiedragon (Sep 2, 2016)

Shea butter is high in unsaponifiables - things that don't turn into soap. These things are wonderful on the skin, but can also reduce lather. So if I were you, I'd try a 2% superfat, a 5% superfat and a 10% superfat to see which ones you like.

If your long-term goal is selling, it would be worthwhile for you to contact restaurant supply stores and see what types of oils they sell and the prices. For example, rice bran oil is a good soaping oil, but it is not available in supermarkets here in the US. However, it is available at Asian markets and at some restaurant supply stores. It is cheaper than olive oil.

I also recommend looking into pig fat (lard) and beef fat (tallow).


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## allane (Sep 2, 2016)

Malian, I am not sure if lard will be a good option for you due to religious  issues in our part of the world. However  40% Shea 50% palm kernel oil and 10% andiroba oil( carapa oil) makes a wonderful high lather soap.

Grace


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## earlene (Sep 2, 2016)

Adding sugar to your soap can help with bubbles. If castor is too expensive try using a little sugar.  Many people suggest making simple recipes first before ever trying something like adding sugar or honey, but I used it early in my learning process and feel that as long as you are careful to follow safe practices it is okay.

For fun, you could make a small batch of each recipe you like and keep one small bar out of each batch for testing purposes. While the other bars cure, you can test the samples once a week to see how they change over time. I find this very useful in determining which recipe I like best and how long it needs to cure to reach that point.

I have also made 100% single oil soaps, and found that experiment to be very educational.  Although I did not do this with Shea butter, I did do it with Cocoa Butter, which I liked even though on its own doesn't do everything I want my soap to do (lather, bubble, feel luxurious and make my skin feel soft and smooth.) 

All soap cleans, so even if it doesn't bubble much, you can still use any of your experiments, provided they pass the zap test.


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## Malianshea (Sep 23, 2016)

Hello people. I just wanted to share with you my happiness. My first attempt was a big success. The shes butter olive oil and palm oil soap was exactly like I wanted. Super creamy I just don't want to stop touching it and also it is Bubbly!!!! The superfat also worked well. No need to put anything on my skin to avoid scritchiness (?) Nut everything was not easy at first cause tge trave came super fast had it was suddenly hard to mix but I think it is because it was super hot in my place and I used a blender. But finally i love the result and the soap became hard quickly the molding was difficult. But I'm glad thx for your advises.


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## cmzaha (Sep 23, 2016)

I just tried one of my high Shea Soaps that I kept to remember how it worked. It feels wonderful, but I have to admit it is an old soap, made on 8/13/2012, but darn it is nice and lathers with big fat bubbles. 
56% shea
13% Sunflower
13% Olive Oil
10% PKO
8% Castor
5% superfat 30% lye concentration
baby carrots carrot juice and coconut milk 
It was made with a 50/50 lye concentration and the additional Liquids, coconut milk, puree and juice were SB'ed into the oils before the lye was added


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## Malianshea (Sep 28, 2016)

Hello everybody! Sorry I did'nt realise it passed from page 1 to page 2. Thanks for all the tips and reply.*
Dixiedragon, *I live in west africa. My religion don't admit using pork and my potential clients neither as* Allane *said*. Earlene*thank you for the advise. I'll try that I already did a new batch sunday I'll demold it today and cut it then I will wrap each pieces in cellophane so there will not be ashes and it can get harder and cure easily. *Is it at the end of the cure that the soap start to be bubbly?* Cause I wanted to wash my tools today (I was told not to do it right after making the soap) and there was no bubble. Exactly like with the previous batch. But I wanna make sure I'll get some bubbles. My second batch cannot be "worst" than the 1st one. Here for people a soap must show lots of bubble. Minds will change but it is step by step. *cmzaha* what it PKO?
It was 
*45% sheabutter
25% Olive Oil
25% palm oil
5%  Coconut Oil (found some and it still expensive but waay less than castor oil!!) 
*for a 500g batch.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Sep 28, 2016)

With so much Shea and so little coconut, you won't ever have a very bubbly soap. 

Castor doesn't make bubbles but boosts the bubbles that would be there, so if you have to choose between 5% castor or 5% coconut I would always go with the coconut. 

But you need more coconut, Palm KERNAL oil (not to be confused with Palm oil) or babassu oil if you want bubbles. 

If those are too expensive and you keep your Shea so high you are going to have precious few bubbles. Even adding sugar won't help enough against those problems.


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## Susie (Sep 28, 2016)

Malianshea said:


> I'll try that I already did a new batch sunday I'll demold it today and cut it then I will wrap each pieces in cellophane so there will not be ashes and it can get harder and cure easily.



You need to leave that soap open to air.  It already has whatever soda ash it is going to get, and if you wrap it, it can't lose the moisture it needs to in order to get hard.


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## cmzaha (Sep 28, 2016)

Malianshea said:


> Hello everybody! *cmzaha* what it PKO?
> It was
> *45% sheabutter
> 25% Olive Oil
> ...



PKO is Palm Kernel Oil, that is considered one of the bubbly oils like coconut oil. You can use Coconut oil, Babassu, or PKO for bubbles. You can also use up to 2 TBS per pound of oils to help with bubbles. 



The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> With so much Shea and so little coconut, you won't ever have a very bubbly soap.
> 
> Castor doesn't make bubbles but boosts the bubbles that would be there, so if you have to choose between 5% castor or 5% coconut I would always go with the coconut.
> 
> ...


The Shea soap I listed happens to lather extremely well, even using only 10% Coconut oil, but it is a long aged soap. It is actually a very nice soap and has big bubbles.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Sep 28, 2016)

That is interesting. How long do you cure it for?


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## Steve85569 (Sep 28, 2016)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> That is interesting. How long do you cure it for?



Made in 2012 so 4 YEARS.


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## cmzaha (Sep 28, 2016)

I initially cured the bars for 6 months and they still lathered decently, of course not as nice as now. You will see with my previous posts I have tried varying amounts of shea. The one made in 2012 is the one I am using now and it is lovely.


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## WanderlustSoaps (Sep 28, 2016)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> If you want bubbles, you need some oil that creates a lot of bubbles.



Malianshea,  This is a list of all of the soaping oils I have with a bubbly value above 65 out of 100.  These oils come from a database I have developed with more than 160 different soaping oils.  Hope this helps you to choose an oil / butter that will work with your high shea recipe.

Aloe Vera Butter 63
Babassu Nut Oil 70
Castor Oil 90
Coconut Oil 67
Murumuru Butter 73
Nutmeg Butter 86
Palm Kernel Flakes (Palm Butter) 66
Palm Kernel Oil 65
Tucuma Seed Butter 71


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## shunt2011 (Sep 28, 2016)

Your data isn't correct. Castor does not create bubbles. It stabilizes the bubbles. Also your mixed butters are generally mixed with veggie oils such as aloe butter. They aren't likely to provide bubbles either. Babassu, coconut and PKO or sugar will do what those really can't.  PKO I've never heard it referred to Palm butter so would like to know where you found your information.


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## ngian (Sep 30, 2016)

Well shea butter belongs in the palmitic/stearic FA oils family, and from my own experience it can be used in place of palm oil. Someone can use it at 50% or more (I've used it at 70%) but for the fact that it has more of the less-soluble stearic FA, the bubbly oils (CO, PKO) can go up to 30-35% in the recipe, and because shea also has more unsaponifiable ingredients than normal, you can use less lye discount (1-2%), in order to make an acceptable bubbly soap bar.


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## lsg (Sep 30, 2016)

I don't use over 15% shea butter.  Using a high percentage of any butter will reduce bubbly lather.  Try using 20% coconut oil, 8% Castor oil, 15% shea butter and 37% olive oil and 20% palm.  For myself, I like about 30% coconut oil, but that may be too high for some people.  With my family, it works well.


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## Malianshea (Oct 3, 2016)

Why is there so much contradictions about how to get bubbles. Those who say this or that won't work, did you try and get bad results?


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## shunt2011 (Oct 3, 2016)

Malianshea said:


> Why is there so much contradictions about how to get bubbles. Those who say this or that won't work, did you try and get bad results?


 
That's exactly how people have found what works and doesn't work.  

There are many soapers here who have done the work and shared their valuable finds with the rest of us.   There have been several single oil soap experiments done.

However, you are more than welcome to test things on your own as well.  Just to see first hand if it works or not.


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## Scooter (Oct 3, 2016)

Malianshea said:


> Why is there so much contradictions about how to get bubbles. Those who say this or that won't work, did you try and get bad results?



Also there can be a difference in bubble preferences. A lot of people seem to like large bubbles in their lather. But others prefer creamy lather and small bubbles. And I am sure there have to be others who are completely indifferent on the bubbly-to-creamy scale and value something else, perhaps conditioning ability, over lathering ability.

So to each his or her own. The cool thing is you get to experiment, decide what you like, and then stick with that. I really value the advice of folks who have been doing this a long time, since I feel like it saves me from going down some unnecessary blind alleys.

Scooter


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## Malianshea (Oct 10, 2016)

Hello.

SHUNT 2011 
hello yes and this is what I did. There is no castor oil nor palm kernel oil in my soap but high level shea , oilive oil and palm oil. And there is a good foam I'm really satisfied with the bubbles and the conditionning (you meanin softening right?) Of the soap.

SCOOTER 
you're right.I also think it is the main reason for those contradictions cause I definitely had bubbles with my recipe at my first attempt so I just can get it when I'm told that It won't make good bubbles.


I still have questions, every time, the trace comes super fast here. As soon as I put the lye/water mixture to oils, the whole thing get suddenly thicker. Is it because it is hot in my place ? because I don't have to mix more than few seconds so it get really thick,if I mix more it becomes super hard and moldind also is always hard so I'm afraid to add things at the trace since I wont be able to mix it well. 

And when I do the zap or tongue test even 2 or 3 days after I made the soap there is not zap it's like it cured for weeks. But I let it for weeks to be sure it can't be harmful. 
So what do you think all this can be due to?

And to finish I want to find soap molds so I can make a lot at the same time and I want a print inside it (the print of my choice) but I'm asked for the dimensions. I want the dimensions for common 190g soap. But how do you know the dimensions of it?

Thank you again for your time


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## dillsandwitch (Oct 10, 2016)

Malianshea said:


> Hello.
> 
> I still have questions, every time, the trace comes super fast here. As soon as I put the lye/water mixture to oils, the whole thing get suddenly thicker. Is it because it is hot in my place ? because I don't have to mix more than few seconds so it get really thick,if I mix more it becomes super hard and moldind also is always hard so I'm afraid to add things at the trace since I wont be able to mix it well.
> 
> ...



The trace could be accelerated by the heat. What temps are we taking about both in your house and the soap and lye temps?

In regards to the zap test. Most soaps will only zap for a day or 2 after they are made while the saponification is completing. Technically a soap is safe as soon as it stops zapping. The reason for curing soaps is so it can loose excess water and do its soapy chemical chains thing. Deeanna explains it well in this thread here http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=35831&highlight=cure+deeanna

depending on what shape and thickness you want your soap to be will depend on the dimensions of the mould needed to make that particular soap. If there is a commercial soap you like the look of just copy its dimensions would be my suggestion.

Hope that helps


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