# Superfatting for General Purpose and Laundry bar



## sephera (Jul 25, 2014)

How much super fatting should I used for 

Laundry Bar 

Dishwash by Hand Bar

Delicates Wash / Wool Wash Bar 

I'll probably be using 10% Coconut Butter for cleansing and bubbles and 10% Canola oil and 80% Olive.

Please help guide me. My guess maybe 2% for Laundry and Dish to account for mis measuring. Maybe 4% for Delicates.


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## LunaSkye (Jul 26, 2014)

I haven't made a laundry soap yet, but I think the superfat amount is around 1-3%.


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## girlishcharm2004 (Jul 26, 2014)

I believe Luna Skye is correct. Ha, one time I washed dishes with some soap that was superfatted at 5% and there was a lot of grease residue on the plates. Won't make that mistake again!

For my dish soap, I made a liquid soap with lye excess, then neutralized the lye. So, that's a zero superfat. It works just like Dawn dish detergent!


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## Susie (Jul 26, 2014)

sephera said:


> How much super fatting should I used for
> 
> Laundry Bar
> 
> ...



You want 0% superfat for laundry and dish soap.  

Use 100% coconut oil for laundry and no more than 20% coconut for dishwashing.


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## sephera (Jul 26, 2014)

What about for delicate Laundry? Washing by hand. Would 5% superfat wreck your delicate clothing. I plan of adding 10-20% Lanolin.

This is my plan for Dish Soap/Laundry. 

80% Canola Oil 
20% Coconut Oil 

Allowing 1% Superfating as my scale only goes to Whole numbers. 

Coconut oil is expensive here I don't want to use 100% coconut. 

I'm going to water discount it to 30% of oil weight 

Adding a teaspoon of sugar and one salt to the water to speed trace, up the hardness and speed cure time.


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## Susie (Jul 26, 2014)

Cloth does not need superfat or lanolin.  It is not skin.  Use no superfat for laundry.  It would be like spraying oil on the fabric.

Sugar and salt do not affect cure time or trace.  Sugar increases the bubbles(something you do NOT want in a soap intended for use in a washing machine) and salt only hardens the bars.  Perhaps you need to go do a bit more research on that one.  Cure time remains 4-6 weeks for bar soap.


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## Susie (Jul 26, 2014)

girlishcharm2004 said:


> I believe Luna Skye is correct. Ha, one time I washed dishes with some soap that was superfatted at 5% and there was a lot of grease residue on the plates. Won't make that mistake again!
> 
> For my dish soap, I made a liquid soap with lye excess, then neutralized the lye. So, that's a zero superfat. It works just like Dawn dish detergent!




It is not necessary to make liquid soap with lye excess then neutralize.  Just use a reputable lye calculator like soapcalc.net and tick the KOH and 90% boxes.  Stick to 1% superfat for dish soap.  The 1% is just to ensure you do not have a lye heavy batch in the case of being a tiny bit off on the weights.  You can, of course, continue to make lye excess soap and then neutralize, but I much prefer to skip all those steps.


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## DeeAnna (Jul 26, 2014)

"...I plan of adding 10-20% Lanolin...."

I have not used it personally, but in my reading, lanolin has been recommended for use in bath and toilet soaps for the skin, but not for laundry. Lanolin is generally used in these soaps in small amounts -- 2-3% based on the oil weight. If you want to treat wool garments with a product containing lanolin, I'd formulate an after-wash rinse with a small percentage of lanolin; I wouldn't add it to soap. I also would not use lanolin on any fiber besides wools. I would be very concerned about its long-term effect on vegetable fibers, such as silk, cotton, linen, etc.


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## sephera (Jul 26, 2014)

Thanks for replies. I want to use 1% superfatting as my scale only does whole number and I will round up decimals to whole numbers. I am worried about excessive lye when washing dishes etc.


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## girlishcharm2004 (Jul 26, 2014)

If neutralizing the lye isn't necessary, that is the soap does just fine at washing at 1%, then I just might try that. I was following a tutorial when I made the soap. I have so much though so I'll have to wait until it's used up and I need to make some more.


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## Dahila (Jul 26, 2014)

Sephera why do you not put "laundry soap " into search bar; top left hand side.  It would bring pages of information about laundry soap not only bars but liquid also. 

We have tons of info here already.  My laundry soap is 0% superfat, you do not not need it.. It is also pure coconut and there is not coffee stain or grease stain which does not get off after washing


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## Susie (Jul 26, 2014)

girlishcharm2004 said:


> If neutralizing the lye isn't necessary, that is the soap does just fine at washing at 1%, then I just might try that. I was following a tutorial when I made the soap. I have so much though so I'll have to wait until it's used up and I need to make some more.



I understand perfectly.  Most of us started making liquid soap from tutorials just like that.  It is why I grabbed your reply and let you know that we don't have to do that any longer.  Go check out the liquid and cream soap forum.  Lots of conversations there with loads of good info.


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## sephera (Jul 26, 2014)

Dahila said:


> Sephera why do you not put "laundry soap " into search bar; top left hand side.  It would bring pages of information about laundry soap not only bars but liquid also.
> 
> We have tons of info here already.  My laundry soap is 0% superfat, you do not not need it.. It is also pure coconut and there is not coffee stain or grease stain which does not get off after washing



OK do you then grate the soap and use it with washing soda and or borax. Wouldn't it get a bit expensive? Do you use refined coconut oil? Yes I tried to search in the forum and got a bit confused that's why I asked.


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## Susie (Jul 27, 2014)

You can use refined or unrefined coconut oil.  It does not matter.  Just be sure to check the 76 degree coconut oil box on Soapcalc.  

You are going to want to go read the threads on making laundry soap as to whether you have to use both washing soda and borax or not based on whether you have hard water or not, if I recall correctly.  I make liquid laundry soap, and have soft water.  So, I really don't recall.  I live in the US, and washing soda and borax are not expensive here. 

You WILL want to use some vinegar in the rinse cycle, though.  It makes a huge difference in how your clothes look.  I use a Downy ball to measure the vinegar into at the start of the wash.


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## Dahila (Jul 28, 2014)

I  use the one for soap 76 degree CO,  I mix it with borax and washing soda which is dirty cheap.  I add also some baking soda.  I use vinegar as softener too, exactly like Susie said.  It is the best washing powder I ever had )


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jul 28, 2014)

Borax seems to be a controlled substance here in the EU, but I found a recipe with out it.  I just use the 100% CO soap, washing soda and a wee bit of baking powder.  About 10-15 drops of lavender EO per wash and away you go.


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## Susie (Jul 28, 2014)

TEG- I am not really sure Borax is even necessary for folks in the US.  I think it is more for hard water situations.


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## CanaDawn (Jul 28, 2014)

Susie said:


> TEG- If you can purchase baking soda, just pour that onto a baking sheet and bake it at 400F(200C if my converter is close) for 20-30 minutes until it stops steaming, et voila, washing soda.  I know the UK has washing soda, as I watch way too many BBC shows.



That's washing soda.  He can't get borax.

Borax is only really useful in hot water, and washing soda is a good water softener, while citric acid works well to precipitate out minerals in the water.  You need to know a bit about your water to make a good formulation, because it has a large effect on the results.


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## Susie (Jul 28, 2014)

CanaDawn- I know that now.  I changed the post.  My brain insists that it still needs coffee to process the printed word.  Sorry about that.


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## CanaDawn (Jul 28, 2014)

There's definitely hard water in the US, so again, knowing one's own water is the best idea.  At one point - was it in this thread? - I had found a map of water quality in the US, but pretty much anywhere will have some record with public works or the equivalent, or if you have a well, you can get a water report.


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## DeeAnna (Jul 28, 2014)

The actual water analysis of a particular water supply, whether it be a private well or a municipal source, really depends on the specific aquifers and surface water sources being used and the subsequent processing of the water if any by the municipality or by the home owner. The nationwide or regional maps are very general and I would not count on them to give much information about specific water sources. For city water, the best information will come direct from the city water department (or talk to the city clerk in a small town). In the US, towns are required by law to make drinking water quality data publicly available.

For example, Kansas City, Missouri, uses both surface water sources (Missouri River) and wells for the city drinking water. In the winter, KC uses more well water. Well water tends to be "harder" (more calcium and magnesium) but microbiologically purer than water from surface water sources (rivers and lakes). The city does reduce the water hardness by lime treatment, but if one wants ~really~ soft water, a home water softener is required.

As another example, the deep Jordan aquifer in our area of northeastern Iowa is the aquifer is preferred by most well drillers when drilling a new water well. But many, many older home and city wells are drilled into shallower aquifers, and the water hardness, etc. can be much different than water coming from the Jordan.

You can also check with your state department of natural resources. In Iowa, see http://www.iowadnr.gov/InsideDNR/RegulatoryWater/DrinkingWaterCompliance/AnnualComplianceReport.aspx The state water quality info may be only about safety issues -- looking at safe levels of nitrate, pesticides, heavy metals -- and may not supply water hardness information. Hardness is considered to be an esthetic or practical issue; it is not really related to whether the water is safe to drink, so the state might not maintain that kind of data -- I know the states of Iowa and Missouri do not, or at least didn't when I was working on a water-quality project some years ago.


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## sephera (Aug 3, 2014)

Just tested my Laundry soap and it's not cleaning properly I think I should have done 0 or 1% super fatting. But even store bought yellow laundry soap doesn't clean well I think it's because I have hard water. The best I have used is a delicates detergent from natural surfactants.


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## Seawolfe (Aug 3, 2014)

What do you have in your laundry mix besides soap?


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## sephera (Aug 4, 2014)

Just the soap in water.

I made my bar soap for laundry into a Liquid soap. 3 parts water and 1 part soap melted and it seems to be cleaning dishes very well.

I tested it again after a few days on clothes and it seems to be cleaning clothes fine now.


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## Dahila (Aug 4, 2014)

I have very hard water in my city so borax is a must.  I am careful with it


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## CanaDawn (Aug 4, 2014)

citric acid also reportedly works well (better) than borax for hard water.


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## Dahila (Aug 6, 2014)

I have hard water in my city.  two days ago I wanted to clean the rag with my CO soap, it was covered with all kinds of stain.  I hosed with cold water, swiped twice with the soap and used the brush to go two strokes in each direction.   Guess what?  It is sparkling clean.  It cleans better than the most expensive carpet cleaner)


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## CanaDawn (Aug 7, 2014)

Dahila said:


> I have hard water in my city.  two days ago I wanted to clean the rag with my CO soap, it was covered with all kinds of stain.  I hosed with cold water, swiped twice with the soap and used the brush to go two strokes in each direction.   Guess what?  It is sparkling clean.  It cleans better than the most expensive carpet cleaner)




Yup.  I use it for darn near everything (just a bit of advise, apparently don't use it for tea stains (that tannin again...reacts with the alkali soap and sets the stain.)


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## sephera (Aug 11, 2014)

Think I found the perfect delicates laundry soap 50% Tallow 50% Coconut oil 0% super fat. I made it and re batched into cream soap. Sane ingredients for Zote a Mexican hand wash soap.


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## sephera (Aug 17, 2014)

Please help. The problem is that 50% Coconut / 50% Tallow 0% superfat does not clean dishes properly. 

I tried this formula from Prairie Homestead. 

http://www.theprairiehomestead.com/2014/01/homemade-liquid-dish-soap.html


3 cups water
2 tablespoons grated bar soap– I used my homemade tallow soap _(it’s a very basic soap–nothing fancy. 
_
1/4 teaspoon washing soda
1 teaspoon vegetable glycerin
20-50 drops essential oils — possible combination ideas below
Does not cut heavy grease like cream, cold animal fats. Any ideas please.


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## Susie (Aug 17, 2014)

I suggest you wander over to the liquid and cream soap forum.  Making liquid soap from bar soap is not going to yield anything I want to use.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Aug 17, 2014)

Aye - I'm wondering how the glycerin helps to clean dishes?


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## Susie (Aug 17, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Aye - I'm wondering how the glycerin helps to clean dishes?



Exactly.  The lengths people go to to avoid making liquid soap from KOH is amazing.  They must not know how easy it is if you have experience making HP.  AND no more neutralizing, or even cooking for 3 hours if you choose not to.  Good thing we have that liquid and cream soap forum, huh?


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## DeeAnna (Aug 17, 2014)

The recipe calls for a mere 2 TBL grated soap in a whole 3 cups of water. Hmmm. That's very roughly a 1-to-24 dilution. 

How much of this concoction do you actually use in your dishwater -- a squirt or two? Or the whole amount?

If you determined to use bar soap to wash greasy dishes, so be it. Just be sure to use enough soap to actually do some good. And use very warm water to solubilize that tallow soap properly and soften the grease on the dishes.

I vote with Susie, however. A good LS with its naturally high solubility ... and enough soap in the dishwater to properly do the job ... is the better way to go.


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## girlishcharm2004 (Aug 17, 2014)

I'm almost done with my liquid soap I made a long time ago. I can't wait to try a liquid, 0% superfat, coconut oil soap for dishes and especially laundry.


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## sephera (Aug 17, 2014)

Susie said:


> Exactly.  The lengths people go to to avoid making liquid soap from KOH is amazing.  They must not know how easy it is if you have experience making HP.  AND no more neutralizing, or even cooking for 3 hours if you choose not to.  Good thing we have that liquid and cream soap forum, huh?



Understandable, one KOH is difficult to obtain particular where I live. Two liquid soap seems challenging compared to CP soap.


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## Susie (Aug 18, 2014)

I thought about the availability issue after I wrote that.  Sorry about that.

As for the difficulty, if you can make HP bar soap, you can make liquid soap.  It is just not that much more difficult.  I get mine to trace, which for liquid soap is a paste consistency, and turn off the crock pot, wrap it with a beach towel, and walk away for 6 or more hours.  Then I start dilution.  It is so easy.


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## DeeAnna (Aug 18, 2014)

I am still curious -- how much of the diluted soap do you use for dish washing, Sephera?


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## sephera (Aug 19, 2014)

What do you mean? I wash by hand, one or two squirts. 

I have yet to find a workable formula, I have been tweaking a formula 1 cup water, 1 TBS soap, 1 TBS washing soda, 1 tsp glycerin. 

That cleans ok except for tough grease like heavy cream and animal fats. 

I tried again to add TBS of liquid soap Dr Bronners, and 1 tbs of liquid natural laundry surfactants to all previous ingredients. That does clean heavy grease but I still have a greasy film. So I am giving up for now. Looking for a cheap supplier of KOH in Sydney now.


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