# I'm getting frustrated with EOs



## Laurabolyard (Feb 15, 2018)

thus far, I have used (all from BA) eucalyptus (cool cp), lemongrass (cool cp), and the scent is just NOT there!  Cedarwood is faily ok, lavender is pretty weak.  Before I sink more $$$, are there any, In Your experience, that do better?


----------



## Cellador (Feb 15, 2018)

Lavender, Cedarwood, Lemongrass, Patchouli, and Peppermint do okay for me. Although they are some of the ones that stick, they can morph & fade over time.


----------



## cmzaha (Feb 15, 2018)

What percentage are you using? I use all at of those at the rate of 6.8% of my total oils. Eucalyptus will fade as will lemongrass. I like Lemongrass 50/50 with Litsea. I also use Rosemary at the 6.8%.


----------



## shunt2011 (Feb 15, 2018)

I use them at 1oz PPO (6%) and the stick well.


----------



## Steve85569 (Feb 15, 2018)

Soaping on the cool side they stick better for me. 
Then again, I mostly use FO's now so take what I say with a grain of salt.


----------



## Laurabolyard (Feb 15, 2018)

Well, as a newb, I've taken the amount recommended .5 oz  PPO. I am now assuming that # is for fragrance oils and not EO??  Grrrr...  I feel like I have wasted a lot!  I want to keep with the integrity of my original goal, natural soaps, but I guess I need some guidance. I'm really disappointed with the eucalyptus...
So, I am apparently using only half what's recommended for EOs!!


----------



## cmzaha (Feb 15, 2018)

Laurabolyard said:


> Well, as a newb, I've taken the amount recommended .5 oz  PPO. I am now assuming that # is for fragrance oils and not EO??  Grrrr...  I feel like I have wasted a lot!  I want to keep with the integrity of my original goal, natural soaps, but I guess I need some guidance. I'm really disappointed with the eucalyptus...
> So, I am apparently using only half what's recommended for EOs!!


In my opinion and my customers opinion .5 oz ppo would not fly with fo either. I am not talking about using 6.8% for eo's such as spicy or know irritant eos. A few, such as Petitgrain, cinnamon, thyme I use around .5 ppo. Many fo's will give an IFRA  usage rate.


----------



## CaraBou (Feb 16, 2018)

My long-term strategy is to shift almost wholly to classic EO blends. I am slowly simplifying by using up my FOs. My normal usage is 5-7% for the total EO blend. I like the scents better, and am satisfied with how they hold up.  This includes eucalyptus blends w/ mint and/or lavender, although honestly I prefer rosemary over eucalyptus (I have both).  That's not because of fading, but more for my nose's subjective pleasure.


----------



## dxw (Feb 16, 2018)

I am new to soap making, but have already decided that scents and colours are black magic arts. My children are refusing to be ritual sacrifices, so I am stumbling my way through that dimension of trying to make soap. Good luck, you are not alone.


----------



## Laurabolyard (Feb 16, 2018)

Wow, YUP, I've  simply just wasted them at this point    I am glad, that in my frustration, I haven't used my favorites, deciding that they would be better used in a body butter or a roll on!!  Sadly, I have a few batches that hardly smell like anything at all.  Expensive mistakes!!


----------



## Obsidian (Feb 16, 2018)

I gave up on EOs for the most part, they just don't stick well for me. 

The exception is patch and a blend called breath from the local grocery store.


----------



## lsg (Feb 16, 2018)

Some essential oils are too strong or irritating to be used in high amounts, for instance clove bud and cinnamon leaf.  Be sure to check the IFRA maximum skin exposure levels.  Most reputable suppliers have suggested levels for use.  For citrus essential oils you might use 15x orange and 5x lemon.  You can also anchor the scent of essential oils by combining them with litsea cubeba or bergamot essential oils.


----------



## jcandleattic (Feb 16, 2018)

I kind of answered this to you in another thread, but like most people, I've never been able to get most EO's to stick. Even with trying the anchoring methods lsg explained above. For me trying to anchor them with litsea and bergamot, just makes the soap eventually smell like litsea and bergamot. The initial EO scent fades. 

I have had good luck with Lime EO, Bergamot, Lemongrass, Litsea, and that's about it. The rest seem to fade within 3 months or sooner. 
I do have a lime bar I kept for myself from a couple years ago, and the scent is still there. It's not strong like it was, but I can still smell it. 
I'd rather spend my money on FO's and not bother with fading expensive EO's anymore.


----------



## shunt2011 (Feb 16, 2018)

I too only use a few EO's.  Patchouli, Lemongrass, Lavender, Eucalyptus and Rosemary for the most part.  The rest are all FO's.  Much better sticking power and customers prefer them for the most part.


----------



## jcandleattic (Feb 16, 2018)

shunt2011 said:


> I too only use a few EO's.  Patchouli, Lemongrass, Lavender, Eucalyptus and Rosemary for the most part.  The rest are all FO's.  Much better sticking power and customers prefer them for the most part.


IF/when I use lavender it is also the EO version, as most lavender FO's (and also EO but not as bad) are migraine inducers for me. And I find even lavender doesn't stick more than 6-7 months, so I usually only make lavender soap for special requests.


----------



## cmzaha (Feb 16, 2018)

I have actually found very few suppliers that list IFRA usage for essential oils, except for WSP.  Many FO's today are listed with safe usage levels but manufacturers of fo's  are not required to submit their fragrance oils the IFRA although I do think more and more suppliers, especially the one's that have fo's made are requesting the manufacturer supply IFRA usage rates. Since I am in the US I only purchase from US suppliers.  This is an excellant book to have but pricey  https://www.amazon.com/Essential-Oil-Safety-E-Book-Professionals-ebook/dp/B00I14TREW/ref=mt_kindle?_encoding=UTF8&me=&dpID=51RMcCOo%2B2L&preST=_SX342_QL70_&dpSrc=detail

I agree with jcandleattic, Lavender does not stick for me over 5-9 months so I make it in smaller batches


----------



## Seawolfe (Feb 16, 2018)

I find that using the max based on the Brambleberry fragrance calculator helps, as does creating blends with good base, middle and top notes (or at least a good base).  I only make one soap that's all lavender and it goes fast so I'm not sure if it fades after 6 months. But my Rosemary and Lavender 50/50 go-to basic mix sticks well - I use that on my long term cure castiles. I do notice that the scent on a 1 year bar isn't much until its in the shower and used a bit.


----------



## Laurabolyard (Feb 16, 2018)

Cedarwood must be a good sticker because I used it at only .5 PPO and it still smells great.  Yet another learning curve!  I haven't tried rosemary yet, but I will.  I will use 1 oz. PPO next and see how that works.  
THANK YOU!!


----------



## Laurabolyard (Feb 16, 2018)

jcandleattic said:


> I have had good luck with Lime EO, Bergamot, Lemongrass, Litsea, and that's about it. The rest seem to fade within 3 months or sooner.
> I do have a lime bar I kept for myself from a couple years ago, and the scent is still there. It's not strong like it was, but I can still smell it.
> I'd rather spend my money on FO's and not bother with fading expensive EO's anymore.


I am not familiar with Listea or Bergamot, but I will definitely look into them, as I would really like to do some more organics.


----------



## IrishLass (Feb 16, 2018)

Laurabolyard said:


> I am not familiar with Listea or Bergamot, but I will definitely look into them, as I would really like to do some more organics.



Be careful with bergamot and certain other citruses, as they are phototoxic. If you stick with folded citruses and  bergaptene-free bergamot, you'll be fine, though (they have the phototoxic elements removed from them).


IrishLass


----------



## jcandleattic (Feb 16, 2018)

Laurabolyard said:


> I am not familiar with Listea or Bergamot, but I will definitely look into them, as I would really like to do some more organics.


They are among the more common EO's and relatively inexpensive. People say they work well for anchoring citrus scents, (because they are both very citrus-y scents) however, I don't find that to be true. My soaps will eventually just end up smelling like the Litsea or Bergamot.


----------



## Laurabolyard (Feb 16, 2018)

Citrusy you say?  You're not a fan of them on their own?


----------



## SaltedFig (Feb 16, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> This is an excellant book to have but pricey  https://www.amazon.com/Essential-Oil-Safety-E-Book-Professionals-ebook/dp/B00I14TREW/ref=mt_kindle?_encoding=UTF8&me=&dpID=51RMcCOo%2B2L&preST=_SX342_QL70_&dpSrc=detail



Fantastic link for anyone that doesn't have the book yet cmzaha ... the price is currently discounted by 47% off RRP!


----------



## cmzaha (Feb 16, 2018)

SaltedFig said:


> Fantastic link for anyone that doesn't have the book yet cmzaha ... the price is currently discounted by 47% off RRP!


Are you looking at the rental price?


----------



## Laurabolyard (Feb 16, 2018)

Interesting that it can be rented!!


----------



## SaltedFig (Feb 16, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> Are you looking at the rental price?



Buy price, for ebook on Kindle, is discounted 47%

Screen shot:


----------



## SoapAddict415 (Feb 16, 2018)

It's been awhile but I've used lemongrass EO from Elements bath & body in CP before with success.


----------



## earlene (Feb 17, 2018)

Not that this helps in this case, but to find the best prices for used books, BookFinder.com is an excellent resource.  I find it works best to enter the ISBN number to narrow down the search to the specific book one is seeking.  Always read the descriptions, of course, so you make an informed choice before purchase.  I, for one, will not buy a book with loose binding and taped together because it just isn't worth it to me.


----------



## jcandleattic (Feb 21, 2018)

Laurabolyard said:


> Citrusy you say?  You're not a fan of them on their own?


I am, (I actually love citrus scents) I just don't use them in my soaps, because I don't use EO's as a rule in my soapmaking (save my EO Lime beer bars)


----------



## Laurabolyard (Feb 21, 2018)

jcandleattic said:


> I am, (I actually love citrus scents) I just don't use them in my soaps, because I don't use EO's as a rule in my soapmaking (save my EO Lime beer bars)


Ok, what is a lime beer bar??  My curiosity is piqued!!


----------



## jcandleattic (Feb 21, 2018)

Laurabolyard said:


> Ok, what is a lime beer bar??  My curiosity is piqued!!


LOL Nothing too fancy!! Just a soap made with beer as the liquid and scented with Lime EO. My beer of choice for this particular bar (and my main beer soap that sells out every time I make it) is Bud Light Lime - hence the Lime EO


----------



## DianaMoon (Mar 12, 2018)

Laurabolyard said:


> thus far, I have used (all from BA) eucalyptus (cool cp), lemongrass (cool cp), and the scent is just NOT there!  Cedarwood is faily ok, lavender is pretty weak.  Before I sink more $$$, are there any, In Your experience, that do better?



When it comes to soapmaking, I'm a total newb, but I do know a bit about perfumery.  

Please don't take this the wrong way, which is real easy to do on the internet, but perfumery is truly an art and a science. There is a reason why the perfume business is highly classified and proprietary. The greats never give away their secrets. But it's an incredibly complex art of creating scents, fixing them, seeing that they are durable, and that they don't irritate or degrade in peculiar ways.

There's no way that you and I can replicate that in a home kitchen or workshop. Just have fun. It's a hobby.


----------



## dixiedragon (Mar 12, 2018)

Have you tried using the soaps? I think a lot of time the scent is gone from the surface of the soap, but if you use it, you get scent.


----------



## DianaMoon (Mar 13, 2018)

Laurabolyard said:


> thus far, I have used (all from BA) eucalyptus (cool cp), lemongrass (cool cp), and the scent is just NOT there!  Cedarwood is faily ok, lavender is pretty weak.  Before I sink more $$$, are there any, In Your experience, that do better?



Here is an example of what I'm talking about:

"Discussions among soap makers often touch on whether or not EO constituents saponify. Is there a simple answer to this?

Kevin
There is an answer, but it is not simple. Essential oils are complex mixtures of dozens of chemical compounds. A given essential oil may contain some compounds that react with alkali, and others that do not. Lavender oil, for example, contains about 42% linalool (which does not react) and 22% linalyl acetate (which does). In fact, when linalyl acetate reacts with alkali, one of the products is linalool. Thus the scent of a CP soap made with lavender oil will smell less of linalyl acetate and more of linalool than the original EO."

Link:
http://roberttisserand.com/2011/06/essential-oils-in-soap-interview-with-kevin-dunn/

A few years ago I got interested in perfumery. Bought a bunch of EOs, schooled myself a bit, and experimented. As I said, I ended up with pleasant smelling bathroom cleaners. Not perfumes. I had fun and learned stuff, but it was humbling, and I finally admitted that I would never be able to replicate a great perfume, or even come close. 

Again, I do not want to sound negative, but adding EOs to soapmaking is taking the process to an entirely different  place.


----------



## DianaMoon (Mar 13, 2018)

Laurabolyard said:


> thus far, I have used (all from BA) eucalyptus (cool cp), lemongrass (cool cp), and the scent is just NOT there!  Cedarwood is faily ok, lavender is pretty weak.  Before I sink more $$$, are there any, In Your experience, that do better?



In the link I supplied this might help:

"The only way to predict which essential oils will react with alkali is to examine the list of components and note which of them are reactive. Such compounds generally consist of esters, phenols, and acids. There is a practical way, however, for a soapmaker to evaluate essential oil reactivity. Add a few drops of essential oil to 1 mL of the lye solution used for soapmaking (typically 25%-50% NaOH). Sometimes a reaction will be visible and sometimes not. In either case, wait a day or two and then compare the scent of the alkaline EO to that of the original. In some cases, there will be no difference in scent. In those cases where the scent changes, the alkaline scent might not be bad, just different from the original."

1 ml is too small to weigh; you'd guesstimate with a dropper.


----------



## Laurabolyard (Mar 14, 2018)

dixiedragon said:


> Have you tried using the soaps? I think a lot of time the scent is gone from the surface of the soap, but if you use it, you get scent.


Actually, I have finally used a few and I DO notice I can smell them in the shower better.


----------

