# do you have insurance?



## zeke11 (Jan 14, 2015)

Insurance seems very expensive for people like me who sell melt and pour soaps at the rate of about $50 gross per month. I am not even making a profit on my sales!
 Do all of you have insurance? Is this really necessary?
 One of the soap making sites mentions that even if you don't sell your soap, you should have insurance because anyone can sue you even if you are giving it away.
 Thoughts on this?
 I am about to give up on this hobby as I find that it's costing me so much $$$$!

Kris


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## Dorymae (Jan 14, 2015)

This is an issue you need to decide for yourself.  Yes someone could sue you, even if you gave the soap away.  Is it likely that your M&P soap will harm someone?  If you put something in your soap, and additive that someone was allergic to and you didn't label it properly you may have a problem with someone suing you.  If you were sued could you afford the liability?  Even if you won the lawsuit, there would be lawyers to pay and a lot of time and stress would occur.

Insurance protects you.  Just like flood insurance protects your house, you need to decide if the cost outweighs the risk.  Risk is a big word and many things affect it.  How big your market is, how your soap is made, what you add to the soap, how careful are you that nothing gets into your soap that you didn't place there?

Only you can decide if insurance is worth the cost because only you will be paying for it if you are wrong.

Edited to add:  If you are not making a profit when selling  you have only yourself to blame.  You need to charge enough to cover your supplies, overhead, and labor.  Marketing and or advertising need to be taken into consideration as well as any fees you may pay for booths.  There are many low cost ways to sell but you need to determine what works best for you.  Running a business is not easy, and it is not for everyone.  I would re-evaluate what you are doing and why.  Go back through your business plan and see where you went wrong.

One more thing.  Anyone can sue you (in the United States) for any reason whatsoever.  You don't have to be at fault to get sued.


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## SplendorSoaps (Jan 14, 2015)

I have insurance through RLI, which ended up being less than $150 for the year.  I don't do M & P though, I only do CP soap.  Just to let you know, many craft fairs and farmer's markets require you to have liability insurance, so not having it may limit your sales venues.  I've only done small craft fairs that didn't require it so far, but it does give me some peace of mind to have it, IMO.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jan 14, 2015)

zeke11 said:


> Insurance seems very expensive for people like me who sell melt and pour soaps at the rate of about $50 gross per month. I am not even making a profit on my sales!
> Do all of you have insurance? Is this really necessary?
> One of the soap making sites mentions that even if you don't sell your soap, you should have insurance because anyone can sue you even if you are giving it away.
> Thoughts on this?
> ...


 

Well, do you want a hobby or not? Hobbies cost money. There are lots of hobbies that cost money and don't give anything back. If you don't like soaping enough to do it for the fun of it, taking the costs on with that (bear in mind you're getting some of the costs back by selling!) then maybe giving it up is for the best. 

You don't have to make soap if you don't want to. But if you want to, then do so. But hobbies do cost money, which is something a lot of soapers seem to forget.


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## cmzaha (Jan 14, 2015)

Yes, I do carry lots of insurance, but we make all but our m&p. If you are making strictly m&p without adding anything to it I would not stess as much about insurance. If someone has a big problem it will end up in the lap of the manufacturer of the m&p. If you add in additives which many do, fully label it keep all receipts showing purchases of the additives and you should be okay. Many have allergies but lets face it they Do need to take responsibility for themselves. Keep good records of each batch. I know of several people that have insurance with RLI and are happy with it. It is insurance geared to soapmakers that sell at a hobby level


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## Lbrown123 (Feb 21, 2015)

I too am thinking I need some type of insurance. I have a question about the RLI insurance. The animal product issue. I saw someone mention that they don't cover soaps made with animal products. Is that specifically milk soaps or lard and tallow as well?


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## pamielynn (Feb 21, 2015)

Lbrown123 said:


> I too am thinking I need some type of insurance. I have a question about the RLI insurance. The animal product issue. I saw someone mention that they don't cover soaps made with animal products. Is that specifically milk soaps or lard and tallow as well?




I used to have RLI and they never told me that. But they do have a sales per year cap.


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## new12soap (Feb 21, 2015)

I believe the issue some were having with RLI was using their own raw goat milk from their personal farms, not all animal products.


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## lillybella (Feb 21, 2015)

Awhile back WSP had an announcement about starting insurance coverage. I responded but never heard back. 
Does anyone know anything about this?

I have insurance through the Soap Guild but it is so expensive!


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## snappyllama (Feb 21, 2015)

I'm starting to get more requests for my soap and B&B products.. friend of a friend type thing. Joining the guild _just _for the insurance perk is a little steep at $520 annually to give things away. 

I wonder if the other perks might justify the cost for me though. Before I started soaping, I would probably spend around $500 annually with UPS sending things since I live far from most of my family and friends. My shipping has really gone up since I started this hobby (just plunked down $80 yesterday in fact).

There's that Office Depot benefit too. I work from home and supply myself... hrmm. 

Does anyone else that doesn't sell have the guild membership? Is it worth it to you? Are there other benefits from suppliers that aren't spelled out on the guild site?


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## shunt2011 (Feb 21, 2015)

I have insurance through the Guild.  RLI is great for those who don't/won't make 5,000 per year.  As previously stated some shows and venues require you to have your tax id information as well as insurance.  Personally, I would rather be safe than sorry.


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## lillybella (Feb 21, 2015)

Snappy this was the only year that I didn't feel the $520 was a burden. I don't really use the benefits because I forget they are there! I need to be more aware of what they offer. I now have wholesale accounts, but it has taken me 5 years to get to this point. Running a soaping business is very expensive especially in the beginning! I still put all I make back into my business but it's nice to be able to do that.

The insurance makes me feel secure. I bought it even when I didn't make enough from my business to pay for it. I agree with DoryMae.


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## snappyllama (Feb 21, 2015)

I was just thinking of getting some kind of protection as a hobbyist that gives out soap and such. It started innocently enough  as foisting it on my friends. Now their friends and family want some too. I'm more than happy to give it away, but I'm a little concerned about folks I don't know terribly well.  One hears about the litigious society and all...

I've put comprehensive labels on everything to make sure no one inadvertently uses something they shouldn't. 

Are there Any lawyers on the forum that can offer off-the-cuff advice. Are fully labeled gifts an exposure problem?


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## Cindy2428 (Feb 22, 2015)

Snappy - re the Guild membership. I only have the hobbyist level, but have already saved enough in my discounts to cover my 80.00 fee. I have a growing vendor spreadsheet  for ricing comparisons for favorite, staple supplies.


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## snappyllama (Feb 22, 2015)

Thanks Cindy! I'll look into the hobbyist level benefits.


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## minipops (Feb 22, 2015)

I am also a hobbyist.  I have been making a LOT of more soap recently and giving it away.  I have been thinking about getting insurance for a little protection.  But don't want to pay a lot.  Does anyone have any experience with the Indie Business Network?  I think is about $175 per year and this includes insurance.


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## snappyllama (Feb 22, 2015)

I just checked their site. Membership is $150 which is separate from their sponsored $398 annual insurance cost.


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## cmzaha (Feb 22, 2015)

None of the Guild Memberships include insurance that I am aware of. The advantage of aquiring insurance through the Guild is the no questions asked to acquire insurance, makes life easier. I cannot use RLI because of the restrictions. This does not cost me anymore than mal practice and liability cost me when I had my beauty shop


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## Relax (Mar 2, 2015)

What specific type of insurance is needed (or recommend) for hobbyist?  I just talked to my homeowners insurance company (USAA) and the representative didn't know and wanted to transfer me to their business department.  I have umbrella insurance but was told it would not cover any lawsuits pertaining to me giving soap away.


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## KristaY (Mar 2, 2015)

My father was an insurance agent all his life until retirement. When I talked with him about insurance he told me about the good 'ol days when any cottage industry was covered under homeowners. I called my carrier just to verify and it was a big fat "no, it's not covered". Then I called my agent to get quotes and the least expensive was about $1200 per year. I decided the $520 through the guild was looking pretty darn good after that so went that route.

I'm happy to pay for it though, even if I don't ever make enough to cover the cost. There's too much risk to go without as people can be sue happy in this day and age. Now I have peace of mind which is worth any cost.


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## Relax (Mar 2, 2015)

Were the quotes you were given by your agent for business insurance? Do you sell your soap?


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## Susie (Mar 2, 2015)

Well, that just ended me giving soap to anyone but family.


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## Relax (Mar 2, 2015)

Susie said:


> Well, that just ended me giving soap to anyone but family.



This is my thought too.


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## kchaystack (Mar 2, 2015)

Susie said:


> Well, that just ended me giving soap to anyone but family.



Heck these days you can not even trust your family to not sue you...


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