# Sugar scrub cubes need preservative?



## Galavanting Gifts (Jan 26, 2010)

o.k. i've been hunting around on the net and through pages here on the forum and I think I am now officially cross eyed lol.

So my question is....do I need to add a preservative into sugar scrub cubes, and if so, how much and which one?

Also, are these able to be sent via mail or will they melt?

Thanks ahead of time its much appreciated


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## Overthemoon (Jan 26, 2010)

Vitamin E and sea salt are good natural preservatives if you don't expect any water to get into the mix. Otherwise something like Liquid Germal would be best. The first two are certainly available via onlien shopping.


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## Galavanting Gifts (Jan 26, 2010)

Thanks, I have all three but at risk of wet hands or moisture getting into the container i'm wondering if I should go with the liquid germal.

Any suggestions on how much to use?


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## Overthemoon (Jan 26, 2010)

You want to use about 0.1 to 0.5% of your total recipe. I'd only ever used the liquid form and I just mixed it in with my oils.


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## Galavanting Gifts (Jan 26, 2010)

Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou   now I can go get started.


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## Overthemoon (Jan 26, 2010)

You're very welcome. I haven't made it in so long, you've got me thinking that I should make another batch.


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## mariflo (Jan 26, 2010)

As far as I know sugar can be a preservative in high enough concentrations. 
Sugar itself won't go bad so if your ingredients are just a soap base and sugar I think you are safe.


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## Galavanting Gifts (Jan 26, 2010)

mariflo, the recipe also has coco butter in it, would this make any difference?


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## mariflo (Jan 26, 2010)

From what I've read, unrefined cocoa butter has an optimal shelf life for culinary usage of one year. In cosmetics, because of its antioxidants content, the shelf life extends to 3 years. Adding the sugar content of your recipe into the context you get longer than that.


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## carebear (Jan 26, 2010)

mariflo said:
			
		

> From what I've read, unrefined cocoa butter has an optimal shelf life for culinary usage of one year. In cosmetics, because of its antioxidants content, the shelf life extends to 3 years. Adding the sugar content of your recipe into the context you get longer than that.



Um, not sure I buy into that.


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## carebear (Jan 26, 2010)

mariflo said:
			
		

> As far as I know sugar can be a preservative in high enough concentrations.
> Sugar itself won't go bad so if your ingredients are just a soap base and sugar I think you are safe.



Not so.  The high sugar concentration only exists in the solid product, if water pools in the container or in the product then the water activity in those areas is significantly higher and would necessitate a preservative.

The soap base may not afford you any protection either - "true soap" does have a high pH and may help, but most MP has a more neutral pH and does support the growth of bacteria and mold in the "right" setting.

Cocoa butter isn't going to help you one iota.  On its own, it is not subject to mold/bacteria (tho it is to rancidity) because of the lack of water in its composition.  But it's not going to give you any preservative effect in stuff.

The reason cosmetics of any sort have a long shelf life is because they are preserved.


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## mariflo (Jan 27, 2010)

Hi Carebear,
You are right, adding water into the equation would mean the product needs a preservative. But if you have solid sugar scrub cubes made of sugar, soap base and cocoa butter would you still need a preservative?  
I have sugar scrub cubes about a year old, made only with sugar and soap and they are ok. And if I resist the temptation of not using them they'd probably last a lot longer  . True, the humidity is not high in my storage room and they were kept dry. Also, I use Cp and HP.


> Cocoa butter isn't going to help you one iota. On its own, it is not subject to mold/bacteria (tho it is to rancidity) because of the lack of water in its composition. But it's not going to give you any preservative effect in stuff.


I wasn't suggesting it be used as a preservative itself  I was suggesting that cocoa butter and sugar together can last for even more than 3 years. But again, this is what I've read and not tested it myself so if you have experience with these 3 ingredients, I hear you 

However, there are many theories regarding preservatives so it basically gets down to what works for you. I personally do not use preservatives and I have even lotion over a year old in perfect condition and bf and I use it every day.
Happy soaping!
mari


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## mandolyn (Jan 28, 2010)

You can't know for sure how someone else will handle your product. You can even tell them, "Don't get it wet." That doesn't mean diddly in the real world.

You need to use a preservative. Jars, when opened, can get steam from the shower into them. A person may forget the cube, get in the shower then remember. They then reach out & open the jar with wet hands & drip water into the jar. You could even wrap them individually, but someone could open the package, use 1/2 the cube & leave the other 1/2 sitting where it can get damp, then use it later. A drop of water is all it takes.

I can go on & on about possibilities. The fact is, solid sugar srubs still need a preservative. Why wouldn't you? There's a lot of hype about how terrible preservaves are, based mostly on bad studies. I'm waaaaaaaay more concerned about the mis-handling of my product & the micro-organisms that result.


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## carebear (Jan 28, 2010)

mariflo said:
			
		

> However, there are many theories regarding preservatives so it basically gets down to what works for you. I personally do not use preservatives and I have even lotion over a year old in perfect condition and bf and I use it every day.
> Happy soaping!
> mari


Hi mariflo,

If you personally choose not to preserve a lotion for yourself then that is your choice, but it is a bad and potentially dangerous decision which I am obligated to say that neither I nor the other moderators of the SMF support on any level. 

Happy soaping to you to.


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## IanT (Jan 28, 2010)

As soon as you add water to anything, whether its included in your recipe or somehow finds it into the mix due to its nature of use, a preservative is neccessary.... best example is to leave a glass of water on your counter and watch how it progresses for a number of days... gets all cloudy and nasty...not something youd want to drink, nor rub on your skin !


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## Tabitha (Jan 28, 2010)

> However, there are many theories regarding preservatives so it basically gets down to what works for you. I personally do not use preservatives and I have even lotion over a year old in perfect condition and bf and I use it every day.
> Happy soaping!
> mari



Just because you can not smell it or see it, does not mean it's not there. I would suggest sending your year  old samples off to a lab. I think you would be surprised at what they find.


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## Tabitha (Jan 28, 2010)

To the OP; Yes, you need a preserv in solid sugar cubes. Chances are the hands gong into the jar to pull out that cube will be wet and leave water behind. Even if they are dry, steam within the bathroom will get into the jar.


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## mariflo (Jan 29, 2010)

Sure, you guys are right. 
I suppose my mind is not set for the business side of this yet and. I only make products for personal usage. I apologize if I caused any confusion. I was just taking into consideration the facts related to the ingredients not the handling of the product itself. 
I have a lot to learn, hey...
I suppose whoever reads this thread finds sufficient arguments to use preservatives in teir produts and always be on the safe side for both their business and their customers 
Thank you for all the arguments.

Happy soaping,
mari


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## madpiano (Jan 30, 2010)

Solid sugar scrubs should not need a preservative. Sugar is the preservative (thats how jams are made to preserve fruit). 

Now there are some people who will drown the jar in water, but to be honest, it's not likely, as they would melt all their sugar cubes. 

Steam in the bathroom is not really enough to start a reaction in an essentially dry product. 

You can protect for all eventualities, but on the other hand if you do mark the jars as "keep dry" that should be enough ? I mean do companies add extra preservative to milk, just because some people cannot be asked to put it into the fridge ? 

I have asked my safety assessor to add preservative to my safety assessment after reading this board and was told that I do not need it as the sugar is the preservative. This is a guy with a degree in cosmetic chemicals.


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## carebear (Jan 30, 2010)

Steam becomes condensation and puddle in your product.  Spray from the shower can puddle in your product.  Wet fingers introduce moisture.

Each of these puddles becomes a nutrient-rich environment for bacteria and mold because the sugar is not concentrated enough to suppress the water activity and thus the growth and reproduction of these bacteria and mold.  Moisture in a bathroom/shower environment is normal and thus you need to take the likelihood of the introduction of moisture into account when formulating a product.  

Telling people not to introduce moisture to a product designed to be used in and around water is not reasonable.  What IS reasonable is to expect that moisture to get into your package.

So - you follow the advice of your safety assessor, and I'll go with my own degree in in food science and my background in personal care product development in the corporate world - and of course with my B&B business experience.

And yes, jams ARE self-preserving because of all that sugar.  Now keep an open jar of it in your shower for a while where condensation can collect and the spray or mist from the shower can find its way in.  And be sure to stick your fingers in there to be sure you've introduced some bacteria and mold.  And watch things happen.


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## Tabitha (Jan 30, 2010)

Sugar alone does not preserve jams and jellies. It is necessary to process the jars in the boiling water bath to prevent spoilage. If the sugar was the answer, there would be no reason for the hot water bath process. If sugar alone preserved jams and jelies there would also be no resaon for refridging them after opening.


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## dagmar88 (Jan 30, 2010)

And my homemade jelly (kept in the fridge) grows nasties after 6 months too...


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