# Haunted by lard/tallow



## John Harris (Oct 1, 2019)

I belonged to a different soap forum way back when and they were definitely DOWN on lard/tallow.  It was considered a low, trashy fat that produced only shameful, pore-clogging soap - certainly nothing you'd want to admit to on your label or among friends and customers.  Despite the stories, I did give it a try a couple of times.  I can't remember if I liked it or not.

Now I see it is being talked about quite freely and without shame. I've seen many posts extolling its virtues.  I  want to try it again, but the thought of it makes me feel "dirty."

Is there anyone else out there who *looks down* upon lard/tallow?  (Strictly from a soap making perspective.)

(Yes, I know all this sounds neurotic but I just can't shrug off the feeling.)


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## shunt2011 (Oct 1, 2019)

Nope, I started with mostly palm recipes and heard all the praises about lard and gave it a try.  I love my lard soap.  They are not pore clogging.  I've only had a couple people not like them but mostly because of religious beliefs.  That's why I try to carry some Palm/Vegan and mostly Lard.


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## Dahila (Oct 1, 2019)

Lard soaps are gentle,  I use combination of lard/tallow in almost every soap


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## Mobjack Bay (Oct 1, 2019)

Lard sounded icky to me at the beginning and then I tried it.  I now love lard-based soap as do many of my testers.  It's about as friendly a soaping base as you will find.


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## amd (Oct 1, 2019)

Honestly... the first time I used lard in soap I was skeptical. But then after 6 weeks cure, and you use the soap for the first time you think to yourself "oh Mr. Piggy you make lovely soap - and bacon." and then you forget what's in it and just revel in the lovely soap that you just made.


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## Deborah Long (Oct 1, 2019)

amd said:


> "oh Mr. Piggy you make lovely soap - and bacon."


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## IrishLass (Oct 1, 2019)

I know that there are some on the forum that for whatever personal or religious reason(s) either can't use lard, or can't get past the thought of using lard, or just don't like using lard, but I'm definitely not one of them! Lard makes awesome soap. I once did a 1:1 comparison between lard and palm in one of my recipes: everything else being equal, in one batch I used palm, and in the other batch I used lard instead of palm.....and lard version won hands down, no contest. The lard version was creamier, gentler, and the overall lather was just so much nicer. The best way I can describe it is that the lard version had more of a 3-dimensional lather while the palm version had more of a 1 or a 2-dimensional lather.


IrishLass 


*Edited to add*: We  at SMF don't frown down on folks over their personal choice to either use or eschew animal fats and/or palm oil in their soap......what we _do_ frown down upon and moderate is when folks shame others for doing or not doing so.


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## DeeAnna (Oct 1, 2019)

Lard soap has had and still has a bad rep in some circles. Some have an "ick" reaction to soap that contains animal fat. I don't think you're ever going to change those folk's minds.

For others, it's because a lot of people of a certain age grew up with grandma's homemade soap and it was awfully harsh. I bet this is the reason why you got that perception about lard "way back when" you were first soaping. 

Lard was my grandmother's fat of choice for soap making because lard was cheap and easily available as a byproduct of Grandpa raised hogs. The soap would have been harsh no matter what fats were used, due to the recipes and tools many home makers had to use to soap back in the day. But things have changed.


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## TheGecko (Oct 1, 2019)

John Harris said:


> Is there anyone else out there who *looks down* upon lard/tallow?  (Strictly from a soap making perspective.)



Vegans look down on animal fats.  Tree huggers look down on palm products.  Naturalists look down on Micas and Fragrance Oils.  Somebody the other day looked down on someone because they used Canola Oil in their soap...OMG, somebody call the soap police!

Soap has been made for thousands of years.  If you weren't lucky enough to live in a place where Olive Trees grew you used what was at hand, and for a lot of folks...that was animal fats.  I haven't used them myself, but I have been researching them since I saw that the local store carries rendered Pig and Duck Fats.  I've also been saving bacon grease in the freezer.  We have a lot of hunters and fishermen and I thought it would be interesting to offer a product made from those areas.  And who wouldn't want a soap make from BACON?!?



> I want to try it again, but the thought of it makes me feel "dirty."



It can sometimes be very difficult to let go of old biases, but if it help, the INCI name of Lard is _Adeps Suillus_.



DeeAnna said:


> The soap would have been harsh no matter what fats were used, due to the recipes and tools many home makers had to use to soap back in the day. But things have changed.



My great-grandmother made soap on the farm.  Big black cast iron cauldron...same one she used to wash clothes in...over an open fire.  Rendered animal fats and homemade lye.  Definitely not the most skin friendly soap, but it washed the body and cleaned clothes and pots and pans.

Today...we used food grade sodium hydroxide, our recipes are calculated and weighed with just the right amount of this and that, our ingredients, even those sold as organic/unrefined, have been processed.


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## DeeAnna (Oct 1, 2019)

Honestly, the difference between food grade and tech grade alkali is the difference between a more extensive chem analysis vs a less extensive one. It all comes out of the same pipe. And my grandmother's lard was as lovely as any I've used -- clean, white, odorless. 

It's more about the ability nowadays for the average person to weigh accurately -- Grandma used a kitchen platform scale like the one below and I use a digital scale -- and more about our ability to calculate recipes rather than blindly follow a generic recipe from the Extension Service and hope it's good enough. If Grandma had owned a better scale and could have calculated her lard soap recipe more accurately, she could have made soap the equal of any I make.


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## Marilyn Norgart (Oct 1, 2019)

I love lard soap.  I have had a lot of people comment that they love lard soap also.  I have also had people that are vegans that wont touch it but I have also had people say they wont use palm or other types of oils--I came to the conclusion that you cant please everybody. so I make what I like and try to make it the best I can--and that is my goal.  I have had people that I have talked to for a long time only to find out they wont use lard soap/it is what it is and I always tell them its a personal choice that people make and I say it in a way that they walk away feeling good about our conversation. I do try to tell people right away now what my base oils are and still find a lot of people stick around and talk about soap with me.


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## Relle (Oct 1, 2019)

I don't use either, it's more of a cost issue.


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## lenarenee (Oct 1, 2019)

There are soaping books, and even suppliers like Brambleberry that eschew animal fat for soaps.  I don’t know why. One book claimed that they weren’t processed cleanly enough for soaping, so maybe finding a food grade supply of animal fat 20 years ago was too difficult.

Cocoa butter is more pore clogging than lard. But once these are transformed into soap, they become a salt of fatty acids. I don’t know if there is a comedogenic chart for soap, like there is for oils. 

Did you know the fatty acid profile of lard is very similar to that of human skin?  It’s possible to get organic animals fats too, from animals that were properly raised. 

I don’t know how to help you get over the negative connotations you have of animal fat in soap. I love them. Recently tried to make some all veggie recipes and while good recipes, they just don’t compare to lard soap.


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## Michele50 (Oct 1, 2019)

amd said:


> Honestly... the first time I used lard in soap I was skeptical. But then after 6 weeks cure, and you use the soap for the first time you think to yourself "oh Mr. Piggy you make lovely soap - and bacon." and then you forget what's in it and just revel in the lovely soap that you just made.


 @amd, loved your comment with "Mr. Piggy."

I LOVE my soaps that include lard!!!



IrishLass said:


> ".....I once did a 1:1 comparison between lard and palm in one of my recipes: everything else being equal, in one batch I used palm, and in the other batch I used lard instead of palm.....and lard version won hands down, no contest. The lard version was creamier, gentler, and the overall lather was just so much nicer. The best way I can describe it is that the lard version had more of a 3-dimensional lather while the palm version had more of a 1 or a 2-dimensional lather......"



I agree that the lather Lard creates is WONDERFUL; you did well in explaining it.



DeeAnna said:


> "Lard soap has had and still has a bad rep in some circles...."


 Sadly, you are correct; they don't know what they're missing. I've happened across sites that (still) state that lard clogs pores but I don't remember any scientific evidence being offered to support their position. I've used lard (and only lard) on my face and hands and my face never broke out. 



DeeAnna said:


> For others, it's because a lot of people of a certain age grew up with grandma's homemade soap and it was awfully harsh.


Yup, my sister in law warned me I shouldn't make soap because it's harsh and will harm my skin and then proceeded to tell me how soap was back in her day as a kid....my husband remembers how harsh it was as well. He, however, had already used soap I made and told me that the stuff from the store can't compare with the handmade soap. I tried to explain that they "back then" just didn't have the knowledge that we now have at our disposal (understanding and knowing the SAP values of various oils and lye that is consistent). Back then they made their own lye solution and had to check the strength with a chicken feather or floating an egg. Often the soap was made lye heavy because soap that didn't contain enough lye wouldn't make soap and the batch was ruined--they opted for stronger than a ruined batch. If I'm understanding it correctly from what has been told to me by older folk and from my own research.[/QUOTE]




DeeAnna said:


> Lard was my grandmother's fat of choice for soap making because lard was cheap and easily available as a byproduct of Grandpa raised hogs. The soap would have been harsh no matter what fats were used, due to the recipes and tools many home makers had to use to soap back in the day. But things have changed.


Absolutely right, it'd be harsh no matter what fat was used. In times past, and actually still in respect to African black soap, people used (and still use) what is available to them. Pioneers and our grandparents/great-grandparent used lard because it was readily available and it was a way to use all of the animal--waste not/want not. I respect those who are opposed to animal products being used in soap, cosmetics, etc but if an animal is going to be consumed, the least we can do (those who don't mind it in our soap) is not waste any part of the animal so using it in soap is a great way not to waste. I'm guessing there are other places, other than Africa, where villages make soap with what they have at hand.



TheGecko said:


> Vegans look down on animal fats.  Tree huggers look down on palm products.  Naturalists look down on Micas and Fragrance Oils.  Somebody the other day looked down on someone because they used Canola Oil in their soap...OMG, somebody call the soap police!
> 
> Soap has been made for thousands of years.  If you weren't lucky enough to live in a place where Olive Trees grew you used what was at hand, and for a lot of folks...that was animal fats.  I haven't used them myself, but I have been researching them since I saw that the local store carries rendered Pig and Duck Fats.  I've also been saving bacon grease in the freezer.  We have a lot of hunters and fishermen and I thought it would be interesting to offer a product made from those areas.  And who wouldn't want a soap make from BACON?!?
> 
> ...



Well put, each and every point! Your 1st paragraph sums it up quite well. Monkies are trained to pick coconuts so I'm sure some are apposed to coconut oil. There are issues with palm as well; people are even against the kind that's responsibly sourced. Options would be quite short if we allowed others to dictate what fats to use rather than using what we personally like to use.

I respect others who choose to stay away from animal fats but also like the same respect for what I choose. I actually tried my hand at making a lye solution from our wood ash from our wood heating stove. It was fun and I was shocked that I was able to float an egg to the right 'crowning' upon my first attempt. Even was able to make a really crude soap that washed a pan of mine--bubbled and everything. I am SOOOO glad that we have soap calculators nowadays and that I can buy consistent lye; I would hate to have to make soap this way. It was actually a liquid type soap that was made and I used it right away. I only made a very small amount and had no idea how much lard to put into my lye solution. I had to keep going back and forth with .....more lard.....more lye and so on so forth. It was cool that it worked though.



lenarenee said:


> ".....But once these are transformed into soap, they become a salt of fatty acids......Did you know the fatty acid profile of lard is very similar to that of human skin?  It’s possible to get organic animals fats too, from animals that were properly raised....."



@lenarenee I'm glad you mentioned that lard is very similar to that of human skin. I did extensive search into lard a couple of years ago (*because I love reading*) and came across that. I found sites where it was stated that those who work with processing animals for food consumption found that their hands were so soft and supple. Also, sites where people used lard on their face and hands to combat very dry skin. I found info about old-time products that used lard and these were sold as 'treatment for' and 'cures for' severely dry skin. 

Often things aren't liked for one reason or another and then that item ends up being held in a bad light to keep others from using it.


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## Arimara (Oct 2, 2019)

Before soaping, I would have looked at you sideways before trying a lard soap. Once I learned what sodium tallowate is, I relented and tried lard in my soap. Yes, I love how that soap feels but unfortunately, I can always smell the pig in the soap and I make soap on the cooler side when I use lard.

In short, just make some lard soap. I have no idea how expensive it may be for you (a pound of lard is under $3 at all my local grocery stores) but unless you're willing to buy a bar from someone who is selling lardy soap, it may be time to rev up the good ole stab mixer and combat your fears.  It can also be an excuse to cook up some bacon if you wanna do it that way...


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## Gryphonisle (Oct 2, 2019)

John Harris said:


> I belonged to a different soap forum way back when and they were definitely DOWN on lard/tallow.  It was considered a low, trashy fat that produced only shameful, pore-clogging soap - certainly nothing you'd want to admit to on your label or among friends and customers.  Despite the stories, I did give it a try a couple of times.  I can't remember if I liked it or not.
> 
> Now I see it is being talked about quite freely and without shame. I've seen many posts extolling its virtues.  I  want to try it again, but the thought of it makes me feel "dirty."
> 
> ...



Dark bread was once looked down upon, and Wonder Bread was seen as progress, so was polyester.  Freeways were also seen as good, mass transit bad.  Shooting bison you had no intention to eat from the back of a train, a legitimate past time, till most of them were killed...  Making soap at home?  How perfectly backward, in 1957!

Lard hit hard times when Science told us Butter was bad for us.  Now we find out that Lard is not as bad for you as butter, and both are better than margarine, and a study making waves today says that red meat probably isn’t bad for you either!

I started making lard soap last year, to avoid palm oil.  Sourcing organic lard was difficult, even in San Francisco, although I could get the fat and render it myself—-but that is an arduous process, and even with a Kitchen Aid grinder, I nearly ruined my machine grinding one batch of it.  I too smell the pig in it—-not a heavy smell, but it is there.  If I could get larger batches of organic lard, or could find a way to grind up pork fat (it renders faster) I’d use lard.   I also remember a friend back in my Coast Guard days who sent his mother a bouquet of anthuriums—we were stationed in Honolulu.  Rather than being pleased she read him the riot act for sending her those, “vulgar, filthy flowers”.  What’s dirty, the lard, the anthuriums, or the mind that finds them dirty?


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## Dawni (Oct 2, 2019)

I love my lard soaps! Surprising since I can't stomach pork lol I don't like the smell of the kitchen when they make any dish with pork meat and that stays in my mind so having it in front of me in food form makes me gag..... but I managed to find lard that has almost no piggy nor meaty smell at all. They use it for pastries and French fries according to the supplier. 

It's very cost effective for me. Before I found lard, and I looked for it for months, I used cocoa and shea to up my longevity and hardness. Cocoa is 600 pesos a kilo and shea is 900. A kilo of lard costs me 90 pesos. Ginormous difference.

I still use the butters together with my lard, but not as much since lard makes pretty hard soap itself, and it's awesome soap but my mom particularly likes my 60% lard soap, which I make with only coconut, olive n castor.

The other reason I like lard is even after cooking it (I HP 90% of the time) I still get a nice, creamy, fluid batter. In fact I've used my lard recipe to make soap for two forum challenges which turned out quite well considering they're meant more for CP designs.

Also, I notice my soaps with a higher lard content don't sweat as much as my other soaps, and I'm in constant heat and humidity where I'm from.

Lastly, I scent only with EOs but even if I don't, that faint lard smell isn't noticeable at all, unless you have a very sensitive nose I guess, considering I cook in medium to high temperatures.

So lard hits all the points for me.. Cost, hardness and longevity, the sweat thing, and fluidity.


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## Adobehead (Oct 2, 2019)

All this interesting talk about lard soaps, what about tallow?  I have only used it once, and I rendered it myself.  What nice soap.  I used lard once, too I need to try that again.  

I live in a location where I pay extra shipping and they charge by the pound.  A 50# bucket of sustainably grown palm is very pricey.  I can get fat from the butcher for free, but rendering is a chore.......... still, considering tallow instead of palm.  What do you think?


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## amd (Oct 2, 2019)

Adobehead said:


> All this interesting talk about lard soaps, what about tallow?


I switched to tallow early last year (2018) because I can very strongly smell the "pig factor" in soap, although none of my customers seemed to notice. The soap is a bit more cleansing, but soap itself is harder and the bars last a bit longer, lather seems to be very comparable.  And I don't notice an animal smell to it.


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## sirtim100 (Oct 2, 2019)

I'm very new to all this soapmaking business but one thing I discovered is that one soap I made from tallow is very, very nice. I got the tallow either free from one butcher's or at a knockdown price from another, and in both cases it was going to be thrown away, so I feel that at least I'm recycling part of the animal. I made a batch with lard two days ago, so the jury's out on that one, but for 2 euros a pound of food grade lard, in comparison to the small fortune I have to pay to get hold of palm oil, I know what I'll be buying in future.

The whole religious/cultural/political/nutritional issue normally consists of there being two sides to every coin. Palm oil doesn't involve killing animals, but from what I can make out in Wikipedia, a good chunk of South East Asia is slowly suffocating under an immense haze, caused in part by illegal forest burning to clear space for palms to make oil. And I imagine one or two orang utans have some pretty strong opinions about the rights and wrongs of using palm oil, in whatever...

The tough fact is that now in a globalised world, whatever you do or buy or watch or eat has consequences, and some are nasty ones, others not so much. I have to look after me and mine while trying to ensure that how I do it doesn't cause too much harm to others, and making soap with lard or tallow doesn't strike me as doing too much harm.

They also make very nice soap.

Happy soaping everyone


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## Michele50 (Oct 2, 2019)

amd said:


> I switched to tallow early last year (2018) because I can very strongly smell the "pig factor" in soap, although none of my customers seemed to notice. The soap is a bit more cleansing, but soap itself is harder and the bars last a bit longer, lather seems to be very comparable.  And I don't notice an animal smell to it.



Lol, I'm just the opposite; I can detect a little animal scent to Tallow but not Lard. Funny how we all can detect different things. Happily, the scent is non-detectable in the finished products of soaps made with either Tallow or Lard.


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## Ladka (Oct 2, 2019)

When I first learned to make soap five years ago we used sheep tallow because it was our association of sheepbreeders that organized the course. We used a recipe with half tallow half other oils (I think it was food grade sunflower and castor oils). I liked the soap so much I never stopped using sheep tallow for my soaps. I also use beef tallow and lard. I do smell the pig in the soap initially but the smell fades away with time.


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## Michele50 (Oct 2, 2019)

sirtim100 said:


> "....I got the tallow either free from one butcher's or at a knockdown price from another, and in both cases it was going to be thrown away, so I feel that at least I'm recycling part of the animal. ....."
> 
> The whole religious/cultural/political/nutritional issue normally consists of there being two sides to every coin.
> ...."



Yes, 2 sides to *every *coin; no matter if it involves ingredients in soap, politics, or whatever. I *don't *foresee an entire world of people all of a sudden giving up meat; to me, using lard/tallow in soap and other skincare products is being a good stuart and being environmentally responsible.



Ladka said:


> When I first learned to make soap five years ago we used sheep tallow because it was our association of sheepbreeders that organized the course. We used a recipe with half tallow half other oils (I think it was food grade sunflower and castor oils). I liked the soap so much I never stopped using sheep tallow for my soaps. I also use beef tallow and lard. I do smell the pig in the soap initially but the smell fades away with time.



What a wonderful outcome from the sheep breeder's association course: wonderful soap that is much kinder to the skin than the store-bought syndet / combars. I think if more people tried 'real' soap they'd not want to return to the commercial stuff. I have a friend who now makes her own after receiving handmade soap on and off for two years as gifts to her from me. She said that when she and her hubby got low on reserves they just didn't couldn't return to the commercial stuff. We aren't killing an animal to be able to make soap; we're using the 'waste' product from an animal already processed for consumption.


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## Cjennmom (Oct 2, 2019)

My first book with soap recipes in it (bought around 1989) used colonial type recipes so lard/tallow was always a part of my soapmaking lexicon.  I figure for the most part only the anti-animal products nuts would be against it.



John Harris said:


> I belonged to a different soap forum way back when and they were definitely DOWN on lard/tallow.  It was considered a low, trashy fat that produced only shameful, pore-clogging soap - certainly nothing you'd want to admit to on your label or among friends and customers.  Despite the stories, I did give it a try a couple of times.  I can't remember if I liked it or not.
> 
> Now I see it is being talked about quite freely and without shame. I've seen many posts extolling its virtues.  I  want to try it again, but the thought of it makes me feel "dirty."
> 
> ...



Lard is actually really cheap - you can get it in grocery stores and Walmart.  It's generally found in the same area as Crisco.  It might get even cheaper if you were to buy fat (suet?) from the meat counter at your local grocery or ask about extra fat at any local slaughterhouse you might have and take to rendering your own.  There's loads of pages about rendering lard or tallow online and with today's crock pots it's even easier to apply long term low heat without burning stuff.



Relle said:


> I don't use either, it's more of a cost issue.


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## MGM (Oct 2, 2019)

I've made a few 100% lard soaps. The first one went mad and we never figured out why. The later ones got crumbly because I had been using a slow-setting recipe and got used to cutting after 3-4 days, and forgot that I switched back to lard, which needed a sooner cut (people pointed out that I should be using a wire rather than that big ole knife, but, confession, I still haven't gotten a wire and still cut all my other batches with that big ole knife just fine). I have a 5th batch of all-lard that I haven't tried out yet. But the one thing all these soaps have in common is they are hard and very long-lasting and produce a creamy lather.


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## Marilyn Norgart (Oct 2, 2019)

Michele50 said:


> Lol, I'm just the opposite; I can detect a little animal scent to Tallow but not Lard



same here!!

Quote=Cjenmom
It might get even cheaper if you were to buy fat (suet?) from the meat counter

I wonder if it would be cheaper once you figure in utilities and time?


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## Michele50 (Oct 2, 2019)

Marilyn Norgart said:


> same here!!!


I think it so comical how different noses detect or don't detect the 'animal' scent in various fats. I have my aunt's nose in that I can detect liquor (even just a glass of beer) a mile away on someone's breath. My youngest son (36 now) is the same way; when his dad would have ONE beer I could hear his 3-year-old voice saying, "ohhhh, dad, you had a beer!!" Too funny!! And the look on his little face as he said that was hilarious (busted by a 3-year-old) with the nose of a bloodhound.


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## Dahila (Oct 2, 2019)

Lard;  the best fries are made on lard,  The best soap,  Lard is delicious on fresh baked bread .  Of course lard is prepared with bacon, onions, garlic and some herbs.  I fry everything on lard; the highest smoke point. 
I agree with sirtim ; an animal gave us it's life (food chain) and we have to use every part of the sacrifice, so nothing goes to waste.  I also believe in appreciation for the animal..
I am selling on really big market and I get once in a while a vegan or a person who does not like animal fat in soaps.  The people who do not like it,  I explain what is happening when i make soap and 99% of people decide to buy lard soap.  Then they are back for more, and become returning customers.
Lard has so many uses it is mind blowing


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## Arimara (Oct 2, 2019)

amd said:


> I switched to tallow early last year (2018) because I can very strongly smell the "pig factor" in soap, although none of my customers seemed to notice. The soap is a bit more cleansing, but soap itself is harder and the bars last a bit longer, lather seems to be very comparable.  And I don't notice an animal smell to it.



I find that tallow lends to a creamier scent in my soap (unscented). I agree about tallow being more cleansing and I would use it in the 30-40% range if I use it again. It's not as cheap or readily available since the quality of the tallow I can but locally is pretty top notch, which ties in with my response below...



Dahila said:


> Lard;  the best fries are made on lard,  The best soap,  Lard is delicious on fresh baked bread .  Of course lard is prepared with bacon, onions, garlic and some herbs.  I fry everything on lard; the highest smoke point.
> I agree with sirtim ; an animal gave us it's life (food chain) and we have to use every part of the sacrifice, so nothing goes to waste.  I also believe in appreciation for the animal..
> I am selling on really big market and I get once in a while a vegan or a person who does not like animal fat in soaps.  The people who do not like it,  I explain what is happening when i make soap and 99% of people decide to buy lard soap.  Then they are back for more, and become returning customers.
> Lard has so many uses it is mind blowing



I still like beef tallow for my fries. Lard, unless I make bacon, which is rare, would just sit in the fridge. Neither my family nor I are that keen on pork. I also agree that by using lard or tallow, we are not letting the animal die in vain. Most of my ancestors used every bit of  the animal they killed, might as well keep a bit of that tradition alive.


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## sirtim100 (Oct 2, 2019)

Michele50 said:


> I think it so comical how different noses detect or don't detect the 'animal' scent in various fats. I have my aunt's nose in that I can detect liquor (even just a glass of beer) a mile away on someone's breath. My youngest son (36 now) is the same way; when his dad would have ONE beer I could hear his 3-year-old voice saying, "ohhhh, dad, you had a beer!!" Too funny!! And the look on his little face as he said that was hilarious (busted by a 3-year-old) with the nose of a bloodhound.



I can smell the tallow in the soap when it comes fresh out of the mould, but from then on it smells fine. The lard I've been using doesn't smell at all, even when ladling it out of the tub and mixing it with the other oils, and from then on it has to compete with the OO I use, which is really nice stuff but really smells of what it is. Then  again, I think with age the sense of smell is going, along with the eyesight...

In response to John Harris' question, I thought I might find soaps made with animal fats a bit "difficult" to use, but when you realise a lot of soapmaking firms use tallow in one form or another, and you've been using their products without flinching, you realise that the problem might be more psychological than anything. 

And I really do feel that. "Primitive" hunters thank the animal for giving them its life and the chance to live on, and they don't waste one tiny bit of the beast. People don't seem to be getting into a worldwide vegan vibe, so until that happens, I'll carry on thanking the animal for permitting me to make nice soaps and using a part that so often gets chucked away.

Happy soaping everyone


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## Marilyn Norgart (Oct 2, 2019)

I had an old school mate who wanted my soap decline cuz I use lard (I knew she would-she asked to buy some and I knew that is the first thing I needed to tell her).  her reason was that all the chemicals etc are stored in fat and she didn't want that on her skin. I don't know if this is a real thing or not but I just told her I respected her point of view.


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## sirtim100 (Oct 2, 2019)

Marilyn Norgart said:


> I had an old school mate who wanted my soap decline cuz I use lard (I knew she would-she asked to buy some and I knew that is the first thing I needed to tell her).  her reason was that all the chemicals etc are stored in fat and she didn't want that on her skin. I don't know if this is a real thing or not but I just told her I respected her point of view.



That's a good point. But then again, what about the chemicals in olive oil? In coconut oil? In any of the oils one uses? To get oils that are 100% free of any chemical treatment is not easy. 

A totally chemical free existence is hard to achieve under any circumstances nowadays. I dunno, it's a complex issue and I'm hungry. 

I'm off to eat some toast, tomato, olive oil and jamon serrano on top. A treat for the gods...

Happy soaping everyone


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## Michele50 (Oct 2, 2019)

sirtim100 said:


> ".....In response to John Harris' question, .....when you realise a lot of soapmaking firms use tallow in one form or another, and you've been using their products without flinching, you realise that the problem might be more psychological than anything.



I use the word 'soap' loosely here when I say that I think many don't realize that commercial 'soap' is made with tallow. One of my 2 best friends is a vegan (she wasn't while we were growing up, or even while young adults) but she uses (I'm CERTAIN unknowingly) soap made with tallow. I haven't the heart to tell her. I gifted her several soaps during a visit and 2 of them had lard just to see if she'd gift those to her mom or keep them. Her mom's not vegan and it was her birthday so I asked her to pick a couple from what I had to gift to her mom--her choice. LOL, she picked those with lard to give her mom. I was upfront that 2 had lard; she had already noticed I had 'lard' typed in *bold*, underlined, and red text. Long ago, many skin care products used lard/tallow for their skin-loving benefits--things cycle and I think now many are returning to using them.



sirtim100 said:


> "And I really do feel that. "Primitive" hunters thank the animal for giving them its life and the chance to live on, and they don't waste one tiny bit of the beast. People don't seem to be getting into a worldwide vegan vibe, so until that happens, I'll carry on thanking the animal for permitting me to make nice soaps and using a part that so often gets chucked away.



I've read many sites where hunting and the use of animal fats are very viciously spoken against and those who hunt are spoken of as wickedly evil people. I'm sure some take life for just sport and not 'food' but that doesn't mean all do that. A close relative raises all sorts of animals for her family's consumption and I know for certainty she pays homage to the animal before she's about to humanely kill it. She also gives thanks to it as she prepares it for consumption, thanking the animal for the life it gave to sustain their lives. I believe this is what you @sirtim100 are speaking about regarding your "Primitive" hunters comment. This is still carried on by many who both hunt and raise animals for food.


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## IrishLass (Oct 2, 2019)

Adobehead said:


> All this interesting talk about lard soaps, what about tallow?  I have only used it once, and I rendered it myself.  What nice soap.  I used lard once, too I need to try that again.



Tallow is great in soap, too. One of my favorite soaps uses both lard and tallow (I find they complement each other quite nicely). I also use tallow in my hubby's shave soap.

Lard is very prolific where I live (southwest US)...I can buy it at every grocery chain in town, and also at every Walmart. Tallow, though, is much harder for me to find locally. The only store near me that I've found to sell tallow is Smart & Final (in 50# quantities). Thankfully, tallow can be easily purchased online for those that can't find it locally. Columbus Foods/Soapers Choice out of Ohio sells good, quality tallow.


Re: detecting/not detecting a piggy smell: 
I find that noses are very individual things in what scents they can and cannot detect, such as folks that cannot stand to smell jasmine flowers because they smell like cat pee to them, etc... So far (thankfully), I've never been able to smell pig in my lard soaps....not even the lard batch in which I accidentally heated the lard to 160 degreesF before adding the lye. Go figure! lol  For what it's worth, I normally soap between 110F and 120F, even with my lard soaps. Thankfully, no one else amongst my family and friends can detect piggy in my lard soaps either.   


IrishLass


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## szaza (Oct 2, 2019)

I was raised vegetarian and still don't like meat, so there's a high 'ick' factor for me when dealing with (dead) animal products. Coincidentally I have both lard and vegan soaps in my dish at the moment (for experiment's sake) and I feel I have to force myself a bit to use the lard soap. It's perfectly good soap, it's just psychological I guess (I'm prerry sure I've used animal-based soap before without noticing). 

I understand why a lot of people like to use lard, it's cheap and it has a good fatty acid profile for soap.
What strikes me a bit in this conversation is the 'respecting the animal by using all of it' argument. It is definitely a good argument if you have your own lifestock and try to find ways to use all of the animal (in which case you wouldn't only be soaping but also tanning leather and making your own sausages with intestinal skins etc., or at least work with people who do so). On the other hand if you're buying lard from a grocery store because it's cheap, you're not really honouring the animal, you're financially supporting a (very wasteful) million dollar industry that made that animal's life pretty miserable. 
Obviously I don't know how the people who used this argument source their lard, so this isn't meant to be towards them. I just felt the need to add a bit of nuance to the argument, because I think it can easily be used out of context.


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## true blue (Oct 2, 2019)

Personally, I like how tallow makes my soap feel more than lard. Maybe it's just me, but between the two, lard seems to make a slightly softer bar? But oh yeah - I love my tallow soaps! As for smelling it in the soap, I don't think I can with either one, but I do hot process, so not sure if that makes a difference. Although ... I must say my unscented 'Old Fashioned Lye' (Lard & Tallow only with just a tiny hint of coconut) does smell different than my mostly veggie oil soaps that are unscented.

I have a friend who raises a few hogs a year - she gives me lard to render myself, for the little I use. But as for those in the US who buy their lard at the store ... it's really just a by-product of the hog industry. All the lard produced could sit in huge piles and rot and create a serious public health hazard ... and not a thing would change. Lard sales in the US (at least to the end consumer) are literally a drop in the bucket for the hog industry. Their goal isn't to make money off it - they just want it gone - that's why it IS so cheap! Keep America clean (in more ways than one) ... use lard soap!    So yeah, I can see how it really does honor those poor animals - especially if you're someone who doesn't support the million dollar industry by purchasing various pork cuts at the meat counter.


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## Mistrael (Oct 3, 2019)

Initially I had ruled out using animal fats for soap because my mother is vegetarian and squeamish about such things. But the more I think about it, the more sense it makes to use animal fats in my family's personal use soaps and just change the formula for things I give to Mom. After all, there isn't a single vegetarian in my house and money is spread thin enough already.


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## Michele50 (Oct 3, 2019)

Mistrael said:


> Initially I had ruled out using animal fats for soap because my mother is vegetarian and squeamish about such things. But the more I think about it, the more sense it makes to use animal fats in my family's personal use soaps and just change the formula for things I give to Mom. After all, there isn't a single vegetarian in my house and money is spread thin enough already.



I have two very best, best friends and the one from childhood is Vegan now; I gift her soap made of only plant oils. Decades ago she moved so very far away and we were always closer than sisters so that broke my heart. We reconnected a little over a year ago (she was living then only 3.5 hours away). We re-connected and I gifted her some soap but before that, I asked her which were her favorite store-bought 'soaps.' The two she named both contained Sodium Tallowate--* real soap *made from fatty tissue (or tallow) of animals (cattle/sheep) with sodium hydroxide. In the group of decorative soaps were 2 that included lard but I made it very evident that they included *lard *and it was her mom's birthday so I asked her to save to for her mother--a lady near and dear to my heart. I knew if she kept those 2 bars that she was aware that the soap she buys is tallow based soap; she gifted them to her mom who LOVED them. I don't have the heart to tell her that the soap she buys from Walmart is made from animal fats . She's Vegan due to her animal cruelty beliefs and I don't really want to open her eye that these few years she's been Vegan she's been using animal products w/out knowing. What I love about her and me is that no matter how many years we go off-grid we can pick right back up from where we left off. Literally decades have passed w/out any communication and then sit up til all hours catching up. With your mom being Vegan, please ask her if she was using tallow soap and didn't know it because it's listed under its INCI name would she want you to inform her of this. I appreciate it because I'm torn between telling her and not.

Running a simple Google search of 'list commercial soaps that contain tallow' produce this:
Soaps containing Animal fat:
Below, we have piled up some of the common brands of soaps that contain animal fat or tallow. You can have an idea of the product by going through it:


Basis
Camay
Cetaphil
Dial
Dove
Irish Spring
Ivory
Jergens
Lever
Neutrogena
pHisoderm
Purpose
Tone
I have actually (years ago) looked up various soaps and compared the ingredients--detergents, detergents, detergents (lol) and my skin hates these and tallow. I really never looked at soap labels before making my own soap; I'm sure she hasn't a clue. She's very watchful where foods are concerned but I bet she hasn't thought about the everyday items we use. One would be blown away just exactly what things have animal products in them and you'd never know unless you did extensive research. I haven't looked into the above list but I'd not be surprised if there was tallow in each...........and more.


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## Relle (Oct 3, 2019)

Cjennmom said:


> Lard is actually really cheap - you can get it in grocery stores and Walmart.  It's generally found in the same area as Crisco.  It might get even cheaper if you were to buy fat (suet?) from the meat counter at your local grocery or ask about extra fat at any local slaughterhouse you might have and take to rendering your own.  There's loads of pages about rendering lard or tallow online and with today's crock pots it's even easier to apply long term low heat without burning stuff.



Cjennmom, lard might be cheap in the US, but not in Australia, it's $18kg. I'm certainly not going to pay $18kg  for fat. They keep it in the refrigerated section in the supermarket.

There are no Walmarts here, no slaughter yards in the city either. A lot of supermarkets while they keep meat, do not have instore butchers. I've been making soap quite a while, I know how to render fat. We use to have a butcher shop, the trimmings/fat and bones got collected, lever and kitchen use to get the fat for soap and the bones got crushed for fertilizer.


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## Dahila (Oct 3, 2019)

what about other  fats like Cangaroo, or emu?  
Are they this expensive Relle?


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## Michele50 (Oct 3, 2019)

Michele50 said:


> "......I have actually (years ago) looked up various soaps and compared the ingredients--detergents, detergents, detergents (lol) and my skin hates these and tallow. ...."



I need to make a correction because it sounds as if I don't like tallow or it doesn't agree with my skin. I like tallow but prefer lard--*less *expensive and *no smell* in fat form compared to tallow. It's the detergent that's wretched. 

Oooops, I should've created two separate sentences. Detergents and my skin *don't *agree; I haven't used _bar 'soap'_ in almost 45 years. The liquid 'detergent' cleansers also reak havoc on my skin so I've been using shampoo in place of bar or liquid body wash. It's not a whole lot better but some is better than the results of syndet/combars---owwwwww. Retirement has allowed me to make my own soap--*real *soap.



IrishLass said:


> Re: detecting/not detecting a piggy smell:
> I find that noses are very individual things in what scents they can and cannot detect, such as folks that cannot stand to smell jasmine flowers because they smell like cat pee to them, etc...



Jasmine is just *awfulllllll*, but not for the reason stated for me--allergic!! Lol, a relative who is quite dear to dear to my heart loves jasmine so I thought I'd make her some soap. Oh my goodness!!! was I sick for a week afterwards. I finally had to move the soap to a back room that's not used in our home and shut the door (*forever*, well at least until the soap was ready to give away). 

I never knew some thought it smells like cat pee, lol. I actually like the smell; my body, however, takes it to be an invader.



Relle said:


> Cjennmom, lard might be cheap in the US, but not in Australia, it's $18kg. I'm certainly not going to pay $18kg  for fat. They keep it in the refrigerated section in the supermarket.
> 
> There are no Walmarts here, no slaughter yards in the city either. A lot of supermarkets while they keep meat, do not have instore butchers. I've been making soap quite a while, I know how to render fat. We use to have a butcher shop, the trimmings/fat and bones got collected, lever and kitchen use to get the fat for soap and the bones got crushed for fertilizer.


WoW  that's outrageous!


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## Relle (Oct 3, 2019)

Michele50 said:


> WoW  that's outrageous!



We can't expect it to be cheap when we don't have the population to support it. Most of it goes to manufacture of other products.


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## Michele50 (Oct 3, 2019)

Relle said:


> We can't expect it to be cheap when we don't have the population to support it. Most of it goes to manufacture of other products.



So true. And there's a bunch of pork processed here in the US so just a lot more plentiful here. That also goes for tallow as well but that's more expensive. With exporting about 547,000,000 pounds of beef being exported one would think tallow would be so abundant that it'd be less costly. Got the number of lbs by Googling it some time ago. It could be the cost of processing it from a heap of fat to useable tallow......or it could be greed.


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## Carla Burke (Oct 4, 2019)

Hi! First post, here, but I felt like chiming in might be a good thing. Tallow - especially the good, grassfed stuff is crazy-expensive, and I don't exactly trust the lard in the regular grocery stores. Plus, my skin is ridiculously sensitive to detergents, fragrance oils - essentially anything synthetic. So, that leaves me either buying the organic artisan stuff, or making my own,  and quite frankly, that works for me, since I never really outgrew the 'me do it!' phase of childhood. The result is that I render my own tallow and lard, from the meats I'm getting ready to cook, for my soaps, shampoos, body butters, and lotions. It's a simple process, and the hardest part is cutting up the fat. So, I put it through the grinder! 

A few cups of water in the slow cooker with the fat gives the solids a place to drop to, making it easier to separate from the rendered fat. It doesn't get much cheaper than using parts of your food that you won't eat, anyway.


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## Carly B (Oct 4, 2019)

I bought some lard at the grocery store.  I ordered some tallow online.  The lard was in the refrigerated section of the store, and I've kept it in the fridge.  The tallow was delivered, and there is nothing about it needing to be refrigerated.

Does lard need to be kept in the refrigerator?  Is tallow OK at room temp?  If the answer to those are both yes,  does anyone know why the storage requirements are different?


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## DeeAnna (Oct 4, 2019)

Look at the packaging and see if the instructions recommend refrigeration. Commercial products, whether lard or tallow, often contain preservatives and some may be hydrogenated (especially lard). They usually don't need refrigeration, although it won't hurt a bit if you have room in your fridge or freezer for the fat.

If it's home rendered tallow or lard, I play it safe. Whether it's been wet rendered or dry rendered, there can be some residual water remaining in the fat and I want to minimize the risk of oxidation and microbial growth. I add ROE (rosemary oleoresin) to the fat right after rendering to protect against oxidation. I also refrigerate or freeze the fat.


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## Carly B (Oct 4, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Look at the packaging and see if the instructions recommend refrigeration. Commercial products, whether lard or tallow, often contain preservatives and some may be hydrogenated (especially lard). They usually don't need refrigeration, although it won't hurt a bit if you have room in your fridge or freezer for the fat.
> 
> If it's home rendered tallow or lard, I play it safe. Whether it's been wet rendered or dry rendered, there can be some residual water remaining in the fat and I want to minimize the risk of oxidation and microbial growth. I add ROE (rosemary oleoresin) to the fat right after rendering to protect against oxidation. I also refrigerate or freeze the fat.



Thank you, DeeAnna.


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## John Harris (Oct 4, 2019)

Dahila said:


> what about other fats like Cangaroo, or emu?



These oils sound exotic to me.  I wouldn't think twice about using them.  But lard comes from a ...  well ... a PIG ... a swill eating, mud rooting *PIG*!  LOL.  I just can't get over it!  Even Bing Crosby has words about pigs:

A pig is an animal with dirt on his face
His shoes are a terrible disgrace
He's got no manners when he eats his food
He's fat and lazy and extremely rude
But if you don't care a feather or a fig
You may grow up to be a pig.

Ok, ok  ...  seriously, maybe I will make up some recipes that include lard.  How bad could it be?

If I used a pound or two of lard, would I reduce that amount from the palm oïl I would have used?  What percentage of lard is ok in a soap?

Going to Coco Coop (in Montreal) tomorrow to pick up all the soap supplies I ordered.  (It only took a month for them to get them for me!)  Soaping is on the horizon! 

I've been looking at my 40 bar wooden mold.  I can't remember how I used to use it.  I think I used to cut the soap in the mold, but how did I get straight lines?  I'm trying to get my partner to cut some slots in the sides of the mold.  Then I can use my 4 foot soap knife and cut bars while the slab is still in the mold.


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## Arimara (Oct 4, 2019)

John Harris said:


> These oils sound exotic to me.  I wouldn't think twice about using them.  But lard comes from a ...  well ... a PIG ... a swill eating, mud rooting *PIG*!  LOL.  I just can't get over it!  Even Bing Crosby has words about pigs:
> 
> A pig is an animal with dirt on his face
> His shoes are a terrible disgrace
> ...


 
You can go as far as 100% with lard. Some here have done it. I prefer up to 50% when I use it. I just would caution you to consider making a small batch in case you don't like that soap.


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## cmzaha (Oct 5, 2019)

John Harris said:


> If I used a pound or two of lard, would I reduce that amount from the palm oïl I would have used?  What percentage of lard is ok in a soap?


In one of my recipes, when I am out of tallow I use 39% palm and 23% lard. It makes quite a nice soap


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## Relle (Oct 5, 2019)

Dahila said:


> what about other  fats like Cangaroo, or emu?
> Are they this expensive Relle?



Simply, yes, as far as emu oil is concerned. $95 approx for 500 ml , or $180 a litre. Run awayyyyy.

Kangaroo oil, as far as I know is not accessible, I don't think I'd like to use Skippy anyway. Skippy was a Kangaroo in a kids tv show when we were growing up, everyone watched it. Soon as you said Kangaroo oil, I thought of poor Skippy. I doubt anyone here would use it, if it was available.


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## Michele50 (Oct 5, 2019)

Relle said:


> ".....Kangaroo oil, as far as I know is not accessible, I don't think I'd like to use Skippy anyway. Skippy was a Kangaroo in a kids tv show when we were growing up, everyone watched it. Soon as you said Kangaroo oil, I thought of poor Skippy. I doubt anyone here would use it.



    I'm like you, no Skippy for me. 

I remember Skippy!!! Instead of a dog (as in Lassie), the 'main' character was a kangaroo.


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## Carla Burke (Oct 5, 2019)

John Harris said:


> These oils sound exotic to me.  I wouldn't think twice about using them.  But lard comes from a ...  well ... a PIG ... a swill eating, mud rooting *PIG*!  LOL.  I just can't get over it!  Even Bing Crosby has words about pigs:
> 
> A pig is an animal with dirt on his face
> His shoes are a terrible disgrace
> ...



You can use 100% lard or tallow, if you want. Many people do. It makes a hard, white, long lasting, multipurpose bar. Like any other fats, though, if you want it for skin, make sure to superfat it, at 5% or better, so it isn't too drying.


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## Mobjack Bay (Oct 5, 2019)

I recently made an 80% lard and 20% Coconut oil soap that is surprisingly good (IMHO).  I looked up "80% lard" here on SMF and found many posts extolling the virtues of high lard soaps.  Some are using lard in the 40-70% range in order to bring other qualities to the soap. Here are two of the threads I read:

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/80-lard-soaps-ok-i-get-it-now.53092/
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/lard-soap.75409/

I made a 100% lard test batch in late July.  As I understand it, 100% lard gets better with a long cure.  I haven't tested mine yet.

ETA: I just tried my 100% lard soap, which is only about 10 weeks old.  I can get it to form a dense creamy lather, but it’s not making any bubbles to speak of.


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## DeeAnna (Oct 5, 2019)

Oh, my, @John Harris -- you have never made friends with a pig. I grew up with purebred Yorkshire hogs and can assure you they would rather bathe in fresh water than lie in mud and they certainly can appreciate the finer things in life. When I was 10, I showed a gilt (young female pig) for my grandpa at the county fair. I had to bathe and groom her and teach her how to stand in the ring for the judge, so she became friendly and tame toward me. For years after that, Rebecca (the pig) would see me in the barnyard and come over to say hi and ask for a tummy scratch.


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## Cjennmom (Oct 5, 2019)

I can actually help with that!  My book that includes soap recipes has a 'single bar' method so you can experiment with colors, scents etc.  I used it just a week or two back when trying out my coffee soap.  Lol  It actually makes ~12 oz. of soap, or 4 individual soaps from one of those flexible silicone mold trays.

Single bar method:

1/2    C. cold, soft water
2        heaping Tbsp. commercial lye
1         C. melted tallow (or lard, they say this stuff is pretty much interchangeable for soaping               purposes)



Arimara said:


> You can go as far as 100% with lard. Some here have done it. I prefer up to 50% when I use it. I just would caution you to consider making a small batch in case you don't like that soap.


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## cmzaha (Oct 5, 2019)

Cjennmom said:


> I can actually help with that!  My book that includes soap recipes has a 'single bar' method so you can experiment with colors, scents etc.  I used it just a week or two back when trying out my coffee soap.  Lol  It actually makes ~12 oz. of soap, or 4 individual soaps from one of those flexible silicone mold trays.
> 
> Single bar method:
> 
> ...


It sounds like your book is quite outdated. I could be wrong, but soaping by measuring is not very acceptable today. We use weight and configure lye by using Sap values either with a soap calculator or manually. Most folks will use soap calculators to figure out lye amounts.
100% Tallow soaps are brittle hard with very little lather 
100% Lard soaps are not quite the brittle hard as tallow but still, do not produce much when it comes to bubbles. Neither in my opinion, make for a nice single oil soap.


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## dibbles (Oct 5, 2019)

Cjennmom said:


> I can actually help with that!  My book that includes soap recipes has a 'single bar' method so you can experiment with colors, scents etc.  I used it just a week or two back when trying out my coffee soap.  Lol  It actually makes ~12 oz. of soap, or 4 individual soaps from one of those flexible silicone mold trays.
> 
> Single bar method:
> 
> ...


Respectfully, I wouldn't suggest making soap with these kinds of measurements - and especially not in a small batch. Using weights rather than volume measurements and a lye calculator is a much more accurate, safer way to go. Using 8 ounces of oils in Soap Calc with a lye concentration of 30-33% will give you about a 12 ounce batch.


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## Arimara (Oct 5, 2019)

Cjennmom said:


> I can actually help with that!  My book that includes soap recipes has a 'single bar' method so you can experiment with colors, scents etc.  I used it just a week or two back when trying out my coffee soap.  Lol  It actually makes ~12 oz. of soap, or 4 individual soaps from one of those flexible silicone mold trays.
> 
> Single bar method:
> 
> ...


I agree with the others concerning the recipe. If you tried this, use a scale to weight the measured out the ingredients by oz or gram (I suggest grams but I"m weird) and then run it through a soap calculator like SoapCalc, soapee or the forum's calculator- Soap Making Friend.


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## Cjennmom (Oct 5, 2019)

To cmzaha and dibbles: The book is about colonial type stuff and only the single bar recipe has that type of measurements.  The basic full size recipe and all others is measured in lbs., oz, and tsp. (tsp. for essential oils).  I've made 3 recipes out of this book not counting the single bar experiment.  I used lard instead of tallow because it's what I have available here.  Two of them are already cured and in use; the third (a lard/olive oil castile soap) is only a week or so away from cured and already looks fantastic.  So far everyone who's used them likes them.  My mother takes extra bars into her classroom (messy subject) and the home ec teacher there likes it too.


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## dibbles (Oct 5, 2019)

@Cjennmom I am afraid I will stand by my statement that using weights rather than volume measurements and a soap calculator is a better choice. I am glad your soap turned out well, and it's cool to read about how soap was made historically, but we've learned a lot since colonial times.


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## Arimara (Oct 5, 2019)

Cjennmom said:


> To cmzaha and dibbles: The book is about colonial type stuff and only the single bar recipe has that type of measurements.  The basic full size recipe and all others is measured in lbs., oz, and tsp. (tsp. for essential oils).  I've made 3 recipes out of this book not counting the single bar experiment.  I used lard instead of tallow because it's what I have available here.  Two of them are already cured and in use; the third (a lard/olive oil castile soap) is only a week or so away from cured and already looks fantastic.  So far everyone who's used them likes them.  My mother takes extra bars into her classroom (messy subject) and the home ec teacher there likes it too.


Please believe me when I say the others don't mean you harm; We want you to be safe. I gave you the suggestion as it is the only way to see what kind of superfat you may be getting by using measuring tools instead of using weights. the advantage of knowing the weights of what you are using for your recipe is that you would be better able to make a consistently safe , well superfatted batch of soap.

While you may be able to guarantee the quality of your water or even you lard, you cannot always be so sure with the granules of NaOH you are using as that is the most variable ingredient we use. The danger comes in here when you measure by volume- every heaping tbsp of NaOH is not going to have the same consistent weight. it can take one time for you to make a batch that may be lye-heavy and none of us want that for you or anyone else.

So yeah, we want you to enjoy your soap be we want to caution you to play it safe, get your white lab coat, black gloves and goggles and have fun soaping (you don't need the lab coat).


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## Relle (Oct 5, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Oh, my, @John Harris -- you have never made friends with a pig. I grew up with purebred Yorkshire hogs and can assure you they would rather bathe in fresh water than lie in mud and they certainly can appreciate the finer things in life. When I was 10, I showed a gilt (young female pig) for my grandpa at the county fair. I had to bathe and groom her and teach her how to stand in the ring for the judge, so she became friendly and tame toward me. For years after that, Rebecca (the pig) would see me in the barnyard and come over to say hi and ask for a tummy scratch.



DeeAnna, while I 've never had the interaction like you with piggies, I've always believed them to be very smart and sensitive.


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## Gaisy59 (Oct 6, 2019)

I too believe that the only reason animals like to wallow in dirt is because people corral them in such places. Animals are not as dumb as we make them out to be.


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## Dahila (Oct 6, 2019)

Relle said:


> Simply, yes, as far as emu oil is concerned. $95 approx for 500 ml , or $180 a litre. Run awayyyyy.
> 
> Kangaroo oil, as far as I know is not accessible, I don't think I'd like to use Skippy anyway. Skippy was a Kangaroo in a kids tv show when we were growing up, everyone watched it. Soon as you said Kangaroo oil, I thought of poor Skippy. I doubt anyone here would use it, if it was available.



so it is as expensive as in Canada

Actually pigs are not dirty animals, they have no choice,  and another thing they are more intelligent, than dogs


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## TheGecko (Oct 9, 2019)

Gaisy59 said:


> I too believe that the only reason animals like to wallow in dirt is because people corral them in such places. Animals are not as dumb as we make them out to be.



Animals wallow in dirt and mud to protect their skin from the sun and insects.


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## Gaisy59 (Oct 9, 2019)

TheGecko said:


> Animals wallow in dirt and mud to protect their skin from the sun and insects.


Oh absolutely, but when the dont have much room to move that mud also includes their own feces if the pen is not kept clean.


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## Zany_in_CO (Dec 27, 2019)

It was once suggested in a book I was reading that if I want to know what kind of animal I was in a previous lifetime, to ask the question before going to sleep. I did so. The next morning I awoke to this answer: pig (intelligence), peacock (pride), and elephant (strong memory). True or not, kinda fun to think about.

TIP: Oakmoss neutralizes the odor of lard & tallow in soap.

Short story: My friend, Nancy the nurse, had a mother who was also a nurse... neo-natal as it turns out. Back in the day, she said they cleaned newborns with lard.


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## Kcryss (Dec 29, 2019)

I tried my hand at rendering lard a few days ago and used it today for a batch of soap at 25% lard. When washing up after, all I could smell was a horrible smell from the soap in the crock. Will that go away after curing? I'm really hoping that it does. Please someone lie to me and tell me it will go away ...


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## Mobjack Bay (Dec 29, 2019)

Chris Veer said:


> I tried my hand at rendering lard a few days ago and used it today for a batch of soap at 25% lard. When washing up after, all I could smell was a horrible smell from the soap in the crock. Will that go away after curing? I'm really hoping that it does. Please someone lie to me and tell me it will go away ...


I’ve made many batches of soap using lard, but only one unscented batch (80% lard, 20% coconut oil) for a soap comparison.  As far as I can tell, the lard smell is getting stronger as it ages.


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## Kcryss (Dec 29, 2019)

Mobjack Bay said:


> I’ve made many batches of soap using lard, but only one unscented batch (80% lard, 20% coconut oil) for a soap comparison.  As far as I can tell, the lard smell is getting stronger as it ages.



Oh no! That doesn't sound good!


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## Mobjack Bay (Dec 29, 2019)

Chris Veer said:


> Oh no! That doesn't sound good!


Maybe others will chime in with more optimistic projections .


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## Zany_in_CO (Dec 29, 2019)

Chris Veer said:


> Oh no! That doesn't sound good!


TIP: Oakmoss neutralizes the odor of lard & tallow in soap. 
Funny story: When I first made tallow & lard soaps I gave them away to friends. An old high school classmate said she loved the feel of the tallow soap but it smelled like she was showering in hamburger! LOL

ETA: Here's a link for more info: 
*Use Oakmoss to Offset the Odor of Lard & Tallow*


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## Kcryss (Dec 29, 2019)

Zany_in_CO said:


> TIP: Oakmoss neutralizes the odor of lard & tallow in soap.
> Funny story: When I first made tallow & lard soaps I gave them away to friends. An old high school classmate said she loved the feel of the tallow soap but it smelled like she was showering in hamburger! LOL


lol, that's hilarious! Sooo ... good to know. Tallow stinks too then huh? Bummer. Will try the Oakmoss though since I have 5lbs of beef fat waiting for me an hour away from here. I really appreciate the tip. My hands still smell like animal ... I can't get the smell to go away.  Maybe lemon and salt will work. lol


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## lenarenee (Dec 29, 2019)

Marilyn Norgart said:


> I had an old school mate who wanted my soap decline cuz I use lard (I knew she would-she asked to buy some and I knew that is the first thing I needed to tell her).  her reason was that all the chemicals etc are stored in fat and she didn't want that on her skin. I don't know if this is a real thing or not but I just told her I respected her point of view.



Wouldn’t she be surprised to know that plants store the pollutants they “clean” from the air in their cells? So eating vegetarian isn’t as clean as people think.


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## CA.Kim (Dec 30, 2019)

Lenarenee, ha, ha, ha! Purists are so legalistic.


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## CatahoulaBubble (Dec 30, 2019)

I like lard soap but I don't use it regularly because I don't have a good source for it. I don't want factory farmed pork so I try to buy from local farmers who slaughter their own pigs but I don't have a reliable source for it. I usually can get about 30lbs of it in the fall when they butcher but then I'm in a dearth for the rest of the year.  I've also found that most consumers are squicky about buying soaps made from animal fats so I tend to just keep the animal fat soap for family, friends, and myself.


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## Quilter99755 (Dec 31, 2019)

I used this thread for getting the smell out of my tallow.   I had rendered the tallow without water and it really had a "roasty" smell.  After cooking it three more times there was absolutely no smell in the tallow at all, and neither batches of soap came out with any tallow smell.  One of the batches was made with no FO or EO's

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/rendering-tallow-does-it-smell-bad.52475/


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## Zany_in_CO (Dec 31, 2019)

@Quilter99755 Well done! Did you use salt in the water?


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## Quilter99755 (Dec 31, 2019)

Salt and some baking soda. There was a reaction but I was prepared for it by lionprincess00 post #17.  Also found a YouTube that showed the reaction....can't seem to find that at this moment. It was cool in my garage so just set the pan out there and I rinsed off the debris that was stuck on the bottom side of the tallow.  Easy peasy.  Am in love with the soap.


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## Kcryss (Dec 31, 2019)

In the post, DeeAnna said it's best to add the salt after cooking for the best results.

 I'll have 5lbs of beef fat this evening so going to give it a try. When I did the pork fat, I made the mistake of pouring it into a mason jar for storage, but watched a video later that showed using a cookie sheet. I think I'll try the cookie sheet option for the tallow. Was kind of a pain getting cold hard lard out of the mason jar for weighing.


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## Kcryss (Dec 31, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> I think the instructions about using water, salt, and baking soda are often vague because people don't really know how they work.
> 
> The point of using water in rendering is to allow it to absorb some of the color and odor causing chemicals that may be present in the fat. Ideally you should do what you can to encourage the water and fat to mix together when rendering, so this separation process can happen efficiently. It's a good idea to stir the warm fat-water mixture frequently and/or allow the water to gently simmer so it will agitate the mixture on its own.
> 
> ...



DeeAnna's comment in the lionprincess post


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## Quilter99755 (Dec 31, 2019)

I didn't use salt for the rendering but for the purifying, as I did a dry crockpot rendering. I think I put the soda and salt in the water and stirred it before adding the tallow back in.  I wish I had taken pics of the whole sequence.  But it sure worked for getting the smell out of the tallow.

I like the idea of the cookie sheet, especially for the last rinse.  It would be far easier to break up and then store in the freezer that way.  I had such a little amount so it was easy to maneuver and used it all within a day or two, so there wasn't an issue for storage.


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## Kcryss (Dec 31, 2019)

Quilter99755 said:


> I didn't use salt for the rendering but for the purifying, as I did a dry crockpot rendering. I think I put the soda and salt in the water and stirred it before adding the tallow back in.  I wish I had taken pics of the whole sequence.  But it sure worked for getting the smell out of the tallow.


Oh, ok. So you did the render first and then added soda/salt after cooking, then cooled and pulled the separated fat from the water after separation? Did you cook again or just the once?


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## Quilter99755 (Dec 31, 2019)

I rendered by the dry crock pot method, strained it, let it cool.  It was smelly so started the search for getting rid of the smell.  Put water, salt and baking soda in the pan and stirred for a bit as there was a reaction, added the tallow and let it simmer for a bit.  Then I let it cool and did the same thing two more times before the water was clear when I let it cool (recooked it a total of three times). by that time the smell was gone so did not cook another time like the post said. It was small batch...maybe a  couple of pounds of fat to start with...and ended up with 24 ounces of tallow by the time it was totally clean. I made two small batches of soap, one with and one without scent.  There is no beefy odor at all to either of the soaps.


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## Kcryss (Dec 31, 2019)

Quilter99755 said:


> I rendered by the dry crock pot method, strained it, let it cool.  It was smelly so started the search for getting rid of the smell.  Put water, salt and baking soda in the pan and stirred for a bit as there was a reaction, added the tallow and let it simmer for a bit.  Then I let it cool and did the same thing two more times before the water was clear when I let it cool (recooked it a total of three times). by that time the smell was gone so did not cook another time like the post said. It was small batch...maybe a  couple of pounds of fat to start with...and ended up with 24 ounces of tallow by the time it was totally clean. I made two small batches of soap, one with and one without scent.  There is no beefy odor at all to either of the soaps.



That's great! Thanks! Will be trying it out!


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## Kelly Frizzell (Dec 31, 2019)

I had ordered both pork and beef fat and rendered them both separately but at the same time. I put them in different containers but now I do not know which is which. Is there a foolproof way to test whether a fat is lard or tallow?


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## Quilter99755 (Jan 1, 2020)

From what I remember about rendering lard was that it was softer than the tallow I rendered.  But that was over 20 years ago that I rendered the lard, so the memory is on shaky grounds, so to speak.


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## Quilter99755 (Jan 1, 2020)

Chris Veer said:


> In the post, DeeAnna said it's best to add the salt after cooking for the best results.
> 
> I'll have 5lbs of beef fat this evening so going to give it a try. When I did the pork fat, I made the mistake of pouring it into a mason jar for storage, but watched a video later that showed using a cookie sheet. I think I'll try the cookie sheet option for the tallow. Was kind of a pain getting cold hard lard out of the mason jar for weighing.



Thanks for the suggestion on a cookie sheet.  That will be much easier to just break up and toss in the freezer.


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## Ladka (Jan 1, 2020)

Kelly Frizzell said:


> ...now I do not know which is which. Is there a foolproof way to test whether a fat is lard or tallow?


A month or so ago I had both rendered beef tallow and pig lard in the fridge, and lard was definitely the softer of the two.


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