# Soap with out Olive Oil



## Kizzy (May 13, 2018)

Practically every recipe I see contains olive oil. Is it really that necessary? I know technically soap can be made with out it but everyone seems to deem it as necessary as coconut oil to make a decent bar of soap. I know that olive oil is gentle to your skin and moisturizing but that can be said about alot of other oils as well.  Can you tell if a bar of soap is made with out olive oil?  Is there a drastic difference?  Does anyone have a favorite recipe that does not include olive oil?


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## DeeAnna (May 13, 2018)

The reason why olive oil is so common in soap recipes is that it has historically been the the easiest high oleic oil for soapers to find. It is a good source of oleic acid, which helps to make a mild, lathery soap when combined with stearic and palmitic acids and a dab of lauric and myristic acids.

Nowadays it is easier to find other high oleic fats including avocado, rice bran oil, high oleic sunflower, HO safflower, HO canola, etc. Probably the closest to olive are any of the HO oils, with rice bran a close second, and avocado running third. These fats may also have the advantage of not being adulterated or faked, which is a widespread problem with olive oil.

To substitute any of these fats for olive, just substitute them in any recipe that calls for olive. (Edit: Be sure to run the changed recipe through your favorite soap recipe calculator to make sure the NaOH weight is correct for the new blend of fats.)

You don't have to use any high oleic oil at all, if that's where you want to go. The classic "no olive" recipe is a lard soap, either 100% or with up to 20% coconut oil. If you look at the fatty acid profile for lard, you'll see it is a reasonably decent source of oleic acid. Not as good as the oils mentioned above, but not too bad.


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## psfred (May 13, 2018)

I'm a very new soaper, but here's my take on OO:  the best soaps are "balanced" in terms of fatty acid content.  You want enough of the long chain saturated fatty acids (stearic and palmitic mostly) to make a hard bar and enough of the unsaturated oleic/linoleic  oils to keep the soap from being "waxy" on the skin.  Lauric and myristic acids are more soluble, so make lathering up easier (although they also tend to dissolve and remove more skin oils, leading to dry skin in some people).

Standard rule of thumb is roughly 50/50% saturated/unsaturated fatty acids with enough lauric and myristic acids to make easy lather.

Olive oil is a traditional soaping oil, and Castile soaps (100% olive oil) and quite popular.  However, you can replace olive oil with any other oil containing high levels of oleic acid -- HO safflower, HO sunflower are usually easy to find.

You can also make very nice soap without any OO at all -- 100% lard soaps are nice, Walmart's tallow based shortening produces an almost ideal "balanced" soap all by itself.

Lol, as usual, DeeAnna explained this better than I do while I was typing my reply!

Probably the best thing to do for yourself is to make small batches (500 g or so) with and without olive oil -- just substitute another oil for the olive oil and re-calculate with a soap calculator -- and see how you like them.


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## lsg (May 15, 2018)

I use rice bran oil instead of olive oil in a lot of my recipes.  You can also use lard as 70% of your recipe with 25% coconut oil and 5% Castor oil.  This makes a nice bar.


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## shunt2011 (May 15, 2018)

I've used Rice Bran as well as HO sunflower.  I just finished my stash of Olive and am switching to HO sunflower or safflower.  I also use avocado in some of my soaps.


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## dixiedragon (May 15, 2018)

I remember when I first started soaping almost 20 years ago, going to the grocery store and the health food store and seeing what oils I could find. not many! And the ones I could find were very expensive, tiny bottles at the health food store. Now I can buy avocado at Costco. I keep making to do my regular recipe, leaving out the olive entirely and replacing it with rice bran, to see how I like it. Right now I use olive, rice bran and HO sunflower ant 15% each.


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## cmzaha (May 15, 2018)

I like Canola HO, Avocado Oil and Sunflower HO. Since Avocado Oil has been rising in price I do not use it as much as I did a year ago, and use either Canola HO or Sunflower HO. Both are lovely in soap


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## BrewerGeorge (May 15, 2018)

Safflower HO.


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## Obsidian (May 15, 2018)

I also use HO safflower instead of olive oil, it a fine substitute and is quite inexpensive.

If you are completely wanting to do away with any high oliec oil, 75% lard, 20% coconut, 5% castor will make a really nice gentle soap that lasts forever.


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## Zany_in_CO (May 15, 2018)

I've used almond oil instead of olive oil in Honey, Oats & Goat Milk castile type bars, and all almond oil LS. Lovely for hair. What makes OO unique is its ability to bring other oils into saponification.


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## Pjclark1 (May 23, 2018)

50% palm ko, 50% coconut with 20% superfat (gives a nice white cold process bar).





$2.50/Kg at my local bakery store (not local to you though), no other fats required.
Cheap to make (4x 250gm bars for under $3) but a little soft for the first 2-3 days after pouring, add more palm stearin if you want it hard quick.
My personal opinion is it's pointless to add expensive fats, it's just fashion.


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## Saponificarian (May 23, 2018)

I think what you have is Palm Kernel oil and not palm oil. So 50% Palm Kernel oil and 50% Coconut oil quite similar to 100% coconut oil recipe with 20% superfat. I don't think 50% Palm oil and 50% Coconut oil at 20% superfat will make a great soap. I do agree with you though, no need using expensive oil in soap if you don't want to.....


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## Pjclark1 (May 24, 2018)

Saponificarian said:


> I think what you have is Palm Kernel oil and not palm oil. So 50% Palm Kernel oil and 50% Coconut oil quite similar to 100% coconut oil recipe with 20% superfat. I don't think 50% Palm oil and 50% Coconut oil at 20% superfat will make a great soap. I do agree with you though, no need using expensive oil in soap if you don't want to.....



I've never found anywhere local selling Palm Oil (and I've looked), It's all Palm Kernel Oil, maybe it's available in your country. Anyway, changed my post to 'Palm ko' to take in your concerns.


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## shunt2011 (May 24, 2018)

PKO and CO are interchangeable.  I use them together in some of my recipes.  I like 100% of the two with a 20% SF but many can't use it.  They find it too cleansing even with 20% SF.  I've also gotten DOS on those bars in the past.  Probably due to the 20% SF.


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## nebetmiw (May 26, 2018)

Kizzy said:


> Practically every recipe I see contains olive oil. Is it really that necessary? I know technically soap can be made with out it but everyone seems to deem it as necessary as coconut oil to make a decent bar of soap. I know that olive oil is gentle to your skin and moisturizing but that can be said about alot of other oils as well.  Can you tell if a bar of soap is made with out olive oil?  Is there a drastic difference?  Does anyone have a favorite recipe that does not include olive oil?



No you don't need OO to make soap. I have Never used it as my skin doesn't like it.  I can always tell if it has it in it.

Truthfully a more natural oil for human skin is lard as it is the closest to our skin pH and type. This has been scientifically proven. I did research many years ago when hubby asked me to make lard bars like his grandmother made. Back in her days it was about using everything on the farm nothing going to waste. Little did they know how good it was for our skin. 

OO tends to be clogging for those with big pores. Those of us with acne or some skin conditions are better off using AO with nut oils like CO and almond or avocado or safflower ect. OO went way up in price a couple years ago and many had to and alternatives. So yes, you can do without and make a great if not better soap.


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## DeeAnna (May 26, 2018)

Don't confuse the properties of the _oils _with the properties of the _soap _made from the fatty acids.


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## seaberry (May 26, 2018)

I have bars curing now that I used grapeseed oil in place of olive oil (I was out of OO).  Will this make a good bar?


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## KristaY (May 26, 2018)

I know people use grapeseed with good results but I'm not one of them. The soap was ok but I didn't like it as much as some of my other recipes. The problem is the short shelf life of grapeseed so can develop DOS rather quickly. That's what happened to mine. But you definitely need to see how you like it. Yours may end up being great soap for you without any DOS problems!


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## DeeAnna (May 27, 2018)

Grapeseed oil is only 20% oleic acid and almost 70% linoleic acid. Olive is about 70% oleic and only 12% linoleic. Because the fatty acid percentages are quite different, grapeseed is not a good substitute for olive.


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## David1pro (May 29, 2018)

When one is going through their local store looking for affordable oils, how does one know if an oil is High Oleic? For instance, here's Walmart's Sunflower Oil's label:




Like most labels for oils, the word Oleic does not appear anywhere.

Or maybe better asked, when looking at the Poly... and Mono... fats, are their cutoffs we should be looking for?


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## Saponificarian (May 29, 2018)

https://classicbells.com/soap/highOleic.html


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## David1pro (May 29, 2018)

Thanks, Saponificarian, that's a good site to study. Answers the question perfectly.


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## Saponificarian (May 29, 2018)

David1pro said:


> Thanks, Saponificarian, that's a good site to study. Answers the question perfectly.




You are welcome. 

You should thank DeeAnna  That info is from her site for soapy stuff.


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## cmzaha (May 29, 2018)

^^^but Apricot Kernel, Almond Oil, Moringa Oil Avocado and the nut oils are very expensive to use in soap. Here Avocado Oil, which I do use in soap, is going up in price like OO. SAO is very nice in soap but to expensive to use very often. Of course I am looking at cost as a seller not for just my own use. 

I use none to very little OO in soap, usually only when I purchase Costco brand to make my yearly Castile bars, I will then use up the leftover in my soaps and to cook with. Cooking with OO is also not my oil of choice.


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## Pjclark1 (May 29, 2018)

I'm not convinced there is any real science in these 'fat' discussions.
Saponification doesn't care what fat you started with. 

Buy what's cheap, Coconut & palm kernel ..... they make great soaps.
Or free, if you have access to dead animals.


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## DeeAnna (May 29, 2018)

If any ol' fat including roadkill works for you, then by all means use whatever you like. 

There are others who do want specific proportions of the various fatty acids, so they use a blend of fats to get the fatty acid profile where they like it. Saponification may not care too much about what fats we use to get there, but it does care about the fatty acids from those fats.

As always with things soapy, YMMV.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (May 30, 2018)

^^^ this. Try making a shaving soap with whatever oil is cheapest and let me know how you get on! Very often the fatty acid spread is important for what people are looking for from their soap


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## Pjclark1 (May 30, 2018)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> ^^^ this. Try making a shaving soap with whatever oil is cheapest and let me know how you get on! Very often the fatty acid spread is important for what people are looking for from their soap



I have,  essentially  palm kernel, coconut oil and stearic acid. 50/50 koh/naoh microwave hot process. Works well. Next year I'll try it with 20gm stearic and no castor (to make it harder).
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




Cost $3 for 1kg 50/50 Coconut/palm Kernel. $3 for 0.5Kg stearic acid, $3 for 450ml castor, $2 for 1kg lye, $4 for 0.5Kg KOH. I bought the smallest amounts available. There's no shaving soap available in my country.

My after shave balm, 30gm Aloe gel + 30gm Dickersons witch hazel + 3 drops tea tree essential oil beaten together in a food mixer. That last's around 1 month using every day. No after shave balm on sale here either.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (May 30, 2018)

Exactly - so if you were in a country where avocado oil was by far the cheapest, you wouldn't be able to make that just using the cheapest oil available. The make up of fatty acids matter in a soap


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## Pjclark1 (May 30, 2018)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Exactly - so if you were in a country where avocado oil was by far the cheapest,



What country would that be?
As far as I know palm and coconut are the cheapest oils in every country.
Along with animal fats ...... DeeAnna's idea of using road kill is quite a good one.
I'll name my new company "Dead Dog Soap Works" to honour her thoughts.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (May 30, 2018)

Pjclark1 said:


> What country would that be?


Well, I guess that in your country, the idea of "theoretical" hasn't caught on. 

But if you want a living example: here in my country, lard is pretty much the cheapest oil. Coconut oil is, from the point of "base" oils (coconut, lard/palm, and olive) the most expensive. So if I want to make a salt bar, I can't just use the cheapest oil available, because it would be terrible. 

Your advice to just use the cheapest oil available regardless is like that. Terrible.


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## DeeAnna (May 30, 2018)

_"...DeeAnna's idea of using road kill is quite a good one. I'll name my new company "Dead Dog Soap Works" to honour her thoughts...."_

@Pjclark1 -- I am indeed honored to have contributed to your plans for success. For centuries, soap has been made, at least in part, from fats that were otherwise unusable, including fats from dead animals, fats harvested from textile manufacturing, old grease from kitchens, marrow fat boiled out of animal bones, etc. Since history has already proven the idea has merit, I'm sure an ambitious modern person such as you can take the concept even further.


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## SanVan (Jun 1, 2018)

Here's a good article about substituting oils in cold process soap:
https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-...ow-to-substitute-oil-in-cold-process-recipes/


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