# Newbie ready to mix! Here's the plan:



## spacetransient (Dec 18, 2014)

I should have all my fix'ns delivered before New Years- So a good day to make the plunge...

I got this shaving soap recipe from David Fischer (thanks for the post!):

10% Lard or Palm Oil
35% Coconut Oil
25% Olive Oil
5%  Castor Oil
13% Cocoa Butter
12% Shea Butter

I plan to use non-homogenized goats milk in place of water
I will be adding 1Tbs of kaolin clay (not sure if it really matters for razor slip/glide but the kicker for use was it retains fragrance well)
I will use a fragrance oil something along the lines of  
bay rum/labdanum/patchouli 

I will make only small- 1lb batches to limit potential newbie calamities

I see they have inexpensive silicone muffin molds on e-bay- about the right size for the typical small shave cakes that fit the bottom of Old Spice- et al mugs

Obviously I will be using a cold process- the details/procedures are abundant on the net. And I know to keep it cool.

Can I substitute Sunflower Oil for the lard or Palm Oil? Does that make sense?

What superfat content should I shoot for since the "water" content actually has milk fat?- Keeping in mind the heavy coconut oil recipe above (already in part offset by the butters)?

Any comments are welcome before my mad scientist transformation begins the new year.

Thanks in advance and glad to be here!!
:wave:


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## snappyllama (Dec 18, 2014)

Hi and welcome! I think you'll love soaping; it's super addictive.

Regarding your recipe, you might want to hold off on making your first soap with milk.  It makes things a bit more complicated.  I'm not saying it wouldn't turn out great, but you're adding a fair amount of complexity off the bat.

I don't have a shaving soap recipe I use so I cannot speak to that. I do know that using high amounts of coconut oil can be very drying. Hopefully one of our resident soap gurus can give you better direction there.

Subbing out sunflower oil for lard/palm will definitely change your soap's properties. Take a look at SoapCalc and compare the two.  You'll want to get familiar with oil properties for tweaking your recipes. Actually, take a look at SoapCalc and always run every recipe through a lye calculator. Typos happen.

I highly recommend reading through the last couple of pages on the beginner forum. There is a wealth of information here and a ton of misinformation on the web in general.


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## cmzaha (Dec 18, 2014)

If you are new to soapmaking I would put making a shave bar on the the back burner and work with making just soap until you are comfortable with the procedure. Shave soap is not the easiest of soaps to make and you should really go through the thread I am going to post since Songwind has done a lot of testing and has made successful shave soaps. I have been working on shave soaps for a couple of years and only this year I have some possibilities, mostly because of Songwind and IrishLass
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=34264&highlight=shave+soap (lots of good info)


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## snappyllama (Dec 18, 2014)

Aside from the advice here, a great teacher is on the Soaping101 videos on youtube. Watch the first ones she published... very helpful info!  I just got started making CP not that long ago.  It sounds complicated at first, but you will love the results you get.


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## Jstar (Dec 19, 2014)

Im going to echo Carolyn and Snappy...first time batch, with added FO's, milk, and clays..even in a 1lb batch that's alot of variables that you are not used to yet..all of those added ingredients will have an effect on your soap and how it behaves..I would advise several plain batches first to see how just that behaves..then add one more additive at a time, per successive batch, so you can see what each additive does on its own.


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## spacetransient (Dec 19, 2014)

snappyllama said:


> Hi and welcome! I think you'll love soaping; it's super addictive.
> 
> Regarding your recipe, you might want to hold off on making your first soap with milk. It makes things a bit more complicated. I'm not saying it wouldn't turn out great, but you're adding a fair amount of complexity off the bat.
> 
> ...



Thanks-
I could start with water alone and continue with this recipe to see how it works out that way. Ran the soap calc with Palm, Sunflower, lard- the sunflower had the most conditioning and desirable INS (162) of the Palm/Sunflower/lard variations (affecting only 10% of the recipe). But also the least creamy (27 vs 31 for Palm) and the hardest at 54 (vs 46 for Palm) According to the numbers, very subtle differences that perhaps experienced users could spot but likely the variations in ingredient sourcing would have more effect. 

That's why I propose 1lb increments. I like the basic recipe and I intend to give it three runs. In the meantime I have purchased what looks like a good small batch shaving soap from a new dealer to compare. I do like the SoapCalc. I just suspect there is a lot more synergy to a soap than the individual numbers- but an important reference and resource. Thanks!



cmzaha said:


> If you are new to soapmaking I would put making a shave bar on the the back burner and work with making just soap until you are comfortable with the procedure. Shave soap is not the easiest of soaps to make and you should really go through the thread I am going to post since Songwind has done a lot of testing and has made successful shave soaps. I have been working on shave soaps for a couple of years and only this year I have some possibilities, mostly because of Songwind and IrishLass
> http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=34264&highlight=shave+soap (lots of good info)




Good advice but where's the fun in that?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 19, 2014)

spacetransient said:


> Good advice but where's the fun in that?




Well, you came for advice and the best is given. If you don't actually want to take it, that's up to you. 

But that recipe is not a shave soap recipe. It's a bath soap with something thrown on for the slickness (the clay). You can shave with it, of course - but there is a chap on YouTube who shaved with peanut butter, so it shows you can technically shave with anything. But that doesn't mean that peanut butter can then be called a shaving product. 

Go to the 'my first shaving soap is a success' thread. Seriously. If you really want to know about what oils do what and why is a shaving soap, you have to read that. For example, swapping the palm or lard out for your chosen oil would make this soap even worse. Read that thread. 

Lastly, if you want to make this 'shaving' soap (as an aside, palm, lard and Shea butter all have a similar profile, so using Shea as well as palm or lard is a waste, which makes me think the recipe itself is also flawed as a regular soap) then it might work out for you. For a first time it's a little bit much going on. But I still also suggest finding a beginner recipe on here (search 'beginner recipe') and get some soaps made so that you know the process and what to expect


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## JustBeachy (Dec 19, 2014)

Ok, I'm going to go against the grain here and put in my opinions. I think at times, we all can be a little too generic in our advice. It doesn't mean that all the advice you were given isn't sound, but it fails to take into account your abilities and experience with other things that lend themselves into making soap.

I would say for any new soaper, go with what you feel comfortable experimenting with. For some that might mean you need to stick with a CO, OO and PO soap. For others, your idea's might not be outlandish at all. Also, I think some of the best lessons you can pick up in the early stages, is the mistakes and/or problems. I can explain, and draw pictures in crayon for you about seizing soap, but my descriptions pale in comparison to the experience of actually seeing one seize. 

I say, if you feel comfortable with the process, then proceed along. If you're making three batches, try one of them with the milk if you want. It will give you the ability to compare and experience the differences in the process and the product. Do your research and set out a good plan for each. Take lots of notes along the way, so you have some good references to fall back on in future recipes. 

And sorry Craig, but I'm going to disagree with you on a couple of points. 

Spacetransient, 

First, just because it doesn't follow the Songwind recipe and/or the fanatical wet shavers ideals  , doesn't mean it's "not a shaving soap". It just means it isn't going to fit in with the "norm" of what a some consider a true shaving soap. However, there's lots of people making recipes similar to yours, into "shaving bars" because they don't want to use a brush, want to just use it in the shower, etc. Shaving isn't just for men with their straight razors. There's lots of opinions on what makes a good shave soap, even within the confines of "real shave soap" users. For instance, Craig hates mud in his soap, but from the different variations of SW's recipe I've tried, I find the slip, closeness of shave much better with clay than with Glycerin. It doesn't mean one is right and the other is wrong. It's just a matter of preference. 

Again, Space... I say try some variables on all three recipes the way YOU, want to try them. See how you like them, then go over to the thread Craig has pointed out. It really is a wealth of information, filled with opinions and advice from lots of people that are more "exacting" on their opinion of shaving soap than I am.  Here's the thread. 

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=34264

Second, Craig is saying there is no difference in using Shea in place of lard or Palm. I would say this comment is flawed. Just because the numbers on SoapCalc look the same doesn't mean they are going to react the same in a finished product. Shea Butter, for instance, has a different percentage of unsaponifiables in it than Palm or Lard. It therefore is going to impart differences in the soap. I could explain this more in detail, but I like this description that one of the Chemical Engineers on the forum DeeAnna posted. This is one of her posts, (btw, some good advice for you, pay attention to her posts if you want the "facts" on a subject. She's a wealth of knowledge), her quote:


"The numbers you are looking at have their uses, but I would not assume any two fats will produce similar soap, just because the hardness, bubbly, creamy, etc. numbers are somewhat similar. My husband and a body builder might weigh the same, but I suspect it might be inaccurate to decide the two guys are "similar" on the basis of their weights. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Asking your pardon in advance for trotting out even more numbers, here is more detailed info on these two: 

The NaOH saponification number of Palm is running about 0.144; shea is about 0.131. The iodine number (a measure of polyunsaturation) is 48-58 for palm, 125-145 for shea, indicating shea has more unsaturated fatty acids. My notes show INS values of about 148 for palm and 112 for shea, more or less. All this means palm is going to saponify easier and give a harder, less conditioning bar.

Palmitic (saturated) and oleic (monosaturated) fatty acids predominate in the palm oil. Oleic and stearic (saturated) fatty acids are the main ones in shea. If you are concerned about DOS, both fats should work well, but palm gets the edge due to less polyunsaturation, looking back at the iodine numbers.

I don't have numbers for the unsaponifiable chemicals in the fats, but my understanding is that shea has quite a high % of unsaponifiables, which would add to the skin conditioning properties in a way that's not measured by the "conditioning, bubbly, creamy, etc." numbers. " 

End of Quote.



I just recently had a 3 recipe experiment of mine hit full cure. Using the same basic recipe, one with palm and shea, one substituting all the palm for Shea and one all the shea for palm. There is a distinctive difference in all three bars and the one that I think turned out the best, in feel of the bar, and on the skin, is the one with both palm and butter. However, the all butter bar was more moisturizing than the all Palm. Very different soaps. 

All oils are not alike, even if the "numbers" would point you in that direction. If the numbers were all that mattered in making a bar of soap. Everyone could just use the same oils and go for that magic number on the calculators and we'd all have the same perfect soaps. We all know that's not the case. 

All skin is not the same. What may work great for me, might be less than sub par for the next person. I've seen recipes on here that I think, "wow, that would be really drying on my skin". But that doesn't mean it's a flawed recipe, just that it doesn't work for me. Find something that you like, that works well for you. 

Most of all, I would say have fun. If you take this hobby all the way up to wanting to sell your products, then you will have to do a lot of experimenting, testing, etc. But when anyone is starting out as making soap as a hobby, I would say, it needs to be fun. If you're not having fun, then what's the point of having a hobby?

****, that was one long post. hahaha


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 19, 2014)

JustBeachy said:


> .............And sorry Craig, but I'm going to disagree with you on a couple of points............


 
Never apologise for that - I am often wrong or, as you point out, just of a different view.  I am going to disagree with you, too!



JustBeachy said:


> ..............First, just because it doesn't follow the Songwind recipe and/or the fanatical wet shavers ideals  , doesn't mean it's "not a shaving soap"...................


 
If we then say that ANYTHING that can be shaved with can be classed as a shaving product, then as I said, peanut butter should be listed.  People shave with Ivory soap, but I don't think anyone would consider it a shaving soap, but rather a soap that _can_ be shaved with.  I can undo a screw with a penny, but that doesn't make a penny a screw driver...............

An issue with shaving products today is that many people feel the same way as you when making stuff.  Look at etsy and there are so many people using a regular recipe with clay and calling it a shaving soap.  Look at anything actually designed for shaving (not just in the songwind thread, go look at commercially made soaps specifically made for shaving) and they all have some similar aspects to each other that 'normal soap' doesn't have.  The recipe here (and the etsy recipes I mentioned) don't have those main points.  There is a reason why most of the best products for shaving have this similar theme - because it works.



JustBeachy said:


> ...............Second, Craig is saying there is no difference in using Shea in place of lard or Palm. I would say this comment is flawed. Just because the numbers on SoapCalc look the same doesn't mean they are going to react the same in a finished product............


 
This was based on an experiment that another soaper did - one who swore by using shea.  He tried the palm and could not tell a difference between the two.  Of course, senstivity to the differences, recipe and even water come in to play when looking at your results and his, but my comment was not simply based on the numbers.  The numbers is what made me initially think it would be the case, his testing then just killed Shea as a saponified fat for me.

Finally, 

I do get a little disappointed when people come, like in this case, to ask for advice but then don't like the advice given.  No one suggested making the exact same recipe as Songwind - personally, I prefer my variation a lot more than the original recipe - but that the whole discussion in the thread about what makes a shaving soap work would help formulate a recipe that works.  Learning from the mistakes of others is, in this hobby, often more effective than making the mistakes ourselves.  I've not hand-stirred a recipe just to see what it is like without a stick blender so that I have experienced it - I know from people here that it can be a pain in the arm and that an SB is much better.  I don't consider it fun to do something that I know will give a bad result just for the sake of it, when a better option has been offered to me.

As for the advice to keep it simple, that is always good advice.  Otherwise the soaper themselves has less experience with soaping itself to reference certain things that come up in the more tricky recipes.  It's not always about how they might react with the process, but also how they know if the issue is down to milk being used, or just not getting something else in the process right.


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## lionprincess00 (Dec 19, 2014)

Meh, my first recipe was a fragrance testing recipe. Boring.
My second was a 1 pound goat's milk soap with olive, co, Shea, cocoa butter, rice bran, and almond oil, oh and castor. It had a cocoa pencil line and all.

Not the prettiest soap I made, but it turned out fine and lathers great! Now I keep it to 5 oils fats, but jumping in head first isn't necessarily bad. Just be prepared for the fact it maybe doesn't turn out awesome, and measure accurately with a good digital scale. all soaps in weight, not volume, and have fresh good lye. dissolve fully, stir or it will stick to the bottom and leave baby crystals behind. Chill your milk and had half the water amount as milk to oils after lye water is added, or do the ice crystals dissolving in lye if you want. Be wary for left over lye crystals with the 2nd method, and consider a strainer to ensure nothings left behind with the freezer method.
Slip is great! It isn't a true quote shave soap, but it will add nice properties when shaving with it. Mix it in part of your water amount to help dissolve and liquify the clay. 
Don't sub sunflower for palm. palm and lard and tallow are your hard fats. Sunflower has a shorter shelf life and can contribute to dos development over time. Some use it at 10% or less and don't have problems, though. 
I'd suggest 
5 castor 
25 coconut 
25 lard 
35 olive 
5 Shea 
5 cocoa 

This makes cleansing 17 and conditioning 54, which is higher cleansing and lower conditioning I normally like, but through in the milk and you may enjoy this.
Also, higher Shea and cocoa like you have is a waste of expensive butters. Use it, sure, but I wouldn't use such high amounts in wash off products. Also, cocoa has a high melt point, so if you soap too cool it can resolidify and cause false trace, mess up everything. Soaping with cold milk can aid the temp drop. Just something to think about.
Finally, I think you know this, but never use someone's water and lye amount. Like the recipe? Great! Plug it into soapcalc to get the water and lye amount. 
Oh, final thought. Cocoa butter and Shea can inhibit good lather as does a higher superfat. Free fats and oils weigh down the soap or saponified oils, and they cause lather to be hindered. With milk, it will increase the superfat, so I'd stick with standard 5% on this one and see how you like it. Any less for a first timer and one mistake made you risk getting lye heavy.


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## JustBeachy (Dec 19, 2014)

You know Craig, I love discussing things with people like you, because you don't get offended by differing opinions. I think that brings a lot to this board. /salute



The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> If we then say that ANYTHING that can be shaved with can be classed as a shaving product, then as I said, peanut butter should be listed.  People shave with Ivory soap, but I don't think anyone would consider it a shaving soap, but rather a soap that _can_ be shaved with.  I can undo a screw with a penny, but that doesn't make a penny a screw driver...............
> 
> An issue with shaving products today is that many people feel the same way as you when making stuff.  Look at etsy and there are so many people using a regular recipe with clay and calling it a shaving soap.  Look at anything actually designed for shaving (not just in the songwind thread, go look at commercially made soaps specifically made for shaving) and they all have some similar aspects to each other that 'normal soap' doesn't have.  The recipe here (and the etsy recipes I mentioned) don't have those main points.  There is a reason why most of the best products for shaving have this similar theme - because it works.



I see what you're saying, but you have to admit, wet shavers are a "different" group of people.   Just calling it a shaving soap, doesn't make it one. But just like there are different types of facial soaps, there can be different types of shaving soaps. A soft puck shaving soap may work great for lathering up with a brush, but it's not going to be very practical for the lady who wants to just rub it on her legs and shave in the shower. A bar is a much more practical and efficient method for her. 

Though I will agree, that if you browse Etsy, the loose usage of "terms" is abundant and not always accurate. 




The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> This was based on an experiment that another soaper did - one who swore by using shea.  He tried the palm and could not tell a difference between the two.  Of course, senstivity to the differences, recipe and even water come in to play when looking at your results and his, but my comment was not simply based on the numbers.  The numbers is what made me initially think it would be the case, his testing then just killed Shea as a saponified fat for me.



Sorta validates my thoughts on sometimes peoples opinions can skew the results of their tests. I try to remain completely open when I'm testing stuff. Believe me, it wouldn't bother me a bit to prove to myself that the butters didn't bring anything to the table. It would be one less item to purchase and keep in inventory.   Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like your thoughts on the butters are based on someone's experiment. It doesn't mean your opinion is wrong, but I rarely will take a soaping "fact" to heart, without testing it for myself. Like you state, there are just too many different variables and/or things that I may like that others would hate. 



The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> I do get a little disappointed when people come, like in this case, to ask for advice but then don't like the advice given.  No one suggested making the exact same recipe as Songwind - personally, I prefer my variation a lot more than the original recipe - but that the whole discussion in the thread about what makes a shaving soap work would help formulate a recipe that works.  Learning from the mistakes of others is, in this hobby, often more effective than making the mistakes ourselves.  I've not hand-stirred a recipe just to see what it is like without a stick blender so that I have experienced it - I know from people here that it can be a pain in the arm and that an SB is much better.  I don't consider it fun to do something that I know will give a bad result just for the sake of it, when a better option has been offered to me.
> 
> As for the advice to keep it simple, that is always good advice.  Otherwise the soaper themselves has less experience with soaping itself to reference certain things that come up in the more tricky recipes.  It's not always about how they might react with the process, but also how they know if the issue is down to milk being used, or just not getting something else in the process right.



I hear you on the advise thing, it has driven me a little nuts at times. But the difference I see here, is he isn't arguing that the advice is wrong. I thought he remained quite civil, and humorous.  

I think you should mix a batch by hand. haha  I love the experiments that bring soaping back to its roots. I'm actually looking for a specific black cauldron, like my grandma had. If I can find it, I'm going to reproduce her recipe exactly. Including, cooking it in the back yard, over an open fire and stirring it with a boat paddle. 

Ending, you are right in the keeping it simple advice, for the technical aspects. Of course it's easier to detect problem areas that way. But one can find the problem area's with a more complicated recipe as well, by using the simplicity of just changing one item in the recipe.   Why I suggested using milk in one batch. Keep everything else the same, but change out the liquid for milk. To me, that's going to be an eye opener and a great learning experience.  

I like Lionprincess's comment. "Boring". 

Not everyone is qualified/suited to starting off with a complex recipe, but not everyone should be automatically relegated to the boring 3 oil recipe to start. If he feels comfortable trying the recipe, then let him give it a go. Either he'll prove he can do it or he'll be back here saying, "wow, does anyone have a 3 oil recipe with no colorants or fragrances I can try".. haha


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## dixiedragon (Dec 19, 2014)

I'm with Just Beachy. I totally disagree with the usual "your first recipe should be 3 ingredients" advice given here.

My first soap was done with volume measures, not weights. I divided the batch and colored and scented each half. and I added camellia buds. (Not recommended, btw). And it turned out fine. except the camellia buds.

I will recommend not using milk for your first batch, because milk soaps can be touchy and misbehave. But I see no problem with rest. Yeah, there's a lot of ingredients, but it's just dumping stuff in a pot. Emeril's bolognese sauce has over 20 ingredients, and it's easy, b/c it's just dumping stuff in a pot. OTOH, my great-grandmother's chicken and dumplings recipe only has 6 ingredients and is much harder.

With that much going on, print your recipe from the computer, then check off each ingredient as it goes in the pot. Have everything pre-measured so that once the lye water hits the oil, you're ready to go.

Sunflower oil is not a substitute for lard or palm. Lard and palm (also tallow) make your bar harder, and sunflower oil does not do that.


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## spacetransient (Dec 19, 2014)

Craig-
I do appreciate advise but I think you are being a bit strident.

I claim no expertise in shaving soaps, brushes or razors though I have tried many.

So I am more than willing to look at your recommendations. But let me have some fun!!! 

So what would be your pick for a recipe?

Just Beachy
Many thanks for the time and patience it took for your response. I will do some additional research in the directions provided. 

I think you have a great attitude as well, supportive but cautious and cogent. 

And I would like to reiterate to all, that aside from having fun, failure is indeed a great, if not the best teacher. We learn more from our mistakes than we do our successes. And if we are being scientific about it with proper weights, timing, notes, etc. there is no such thing as failure, only unanticipated or unacceptable results we can then avoid in the future. 

If we never bite off more than we can chew, how do we know our limits?

Conversely, if we keep taking small steps, how many will it take to get to where we want to go? 

The most I hope to get out of this endeavor is to be able to make the best soap I have tried for the money without wasting my time or money. And that's a lot to hope for- agreed!

lionprincess00
I really appreciate your thoughts and recipe! I am not afraid to screw things up as long as I am headed in the right direction- and this response is very helpful.

Hope your holiday's are the best!

Just Beachy
First- I want you to know I am not reading everything before I respond, just reading in order and responding in order- just in case I put my foot in it (again) later.

I like your observations. Thanks for your time. This is a great forum.


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## JustBeachy (Dec 19, 2014)

Transient, I think you have a great attitude, and it should serve you well in soaping. Question everything, listen to everything, then apply that which is applicable to your situation. Don't take anyones advice on how YOU should proceed, including mine, without applying your own thoughts and level of comfort with the process.  

There are tons of knowledgeable people on this forum. While we may not always agree on process, ingredients etc... I think you'll find all are here to help anyone willing to at least listen to the differing opinions. And very rarely will you find that one opinion is right and one wrong. The beauty of this forum in my opinion, is the diversity of idea's and experience. 

And, uh, we are going to need pictures of your soaps..Just saying  

good luck, I'm rooting for ya.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 20, 2014)

I still stand by my comments. 

I don't think that in all aspects of life that failure is the best teacher. If you truly believe that, then you need to go and stop a chainsaw chain with your bare hand and then crash your car at 100mph in to a tree, because until you experience the results you won't really know :crazy:

If you had come here and said that you will just mix some oils and some lye together, not measuring it out, just to see what happens and I had suggested not doing that because it would likely go badly, would anyone accuse me of ruining your fun or experiencing mistakes for yourself? Not likely. 

Taking the experiences of people gone before you is not a bad thing. 

Secondly, other people read posts on the forum (or at least they should do!) so if they see your 'shaving soap' recipe and no one has pointed out that it is not a shaving soap recipe, they go off and make it, thinking it'll be great. 

But anyway - have fun. As beachy said - we want pictures. Always pictures. If you want to please Susie, pictures of bubbles!


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## spacetransient (Dec 22, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> I still stand by my comments.
> 
> "I don't think that in all aspects of life that failure is the best teacher. If you truly believe that, then you need to go and stop a chainsaw chain with your bare hand and then crash your car at 100mph in to a tree, because until you experience the results you won't really know :crazy:"



Of course- even if the examples are extreme- hyperbole- I get it. Still we must admit falling does not teach us to continue crawling, it teaches us to walk more surely and eventually to run. 

"Taking the experiences of people gone before you is not a bad thing."

Agreed. 

"Secondly, other people read posts on the forum (or at least they should do!) so if they see your 'shaving soap' recipe and no one has pointed out that it is not a shaving soap recipe, they go off and make it, thinking it'll be great."

Thanks for the clarification- your position is much better understood now. Specific recommendations or a recipe afterwards is always helpful as it seems more constructive and encouraging.  Not that I am thinned skinned either. -
It's all part of being a "newbie".  Do you still remember?

"But anyway - have fun. As beachy said - we want pictures. Always pictures. If you want to please Susie, pictures of bubbles!"


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## spacetransient (Dec 22, 2014)

Ok folks-
Thanks for all the reply's. They demonstrate interest, experience and best wishes.

But I have been reading as suggested and while I am still not sure the proposed recipe does not qualify as a shaving soap, Songwinds thread and others have made a change in direction possible for me before I begin. :? To that end I will close this Newbie thread and begin another by stipulating what I want in a soap and see if I can be steered in a better direction. (oh dear...more supplies??) 

Again many thanks for your time and patience- I hope I can receive the same in the next thread...


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