# Crazy Fast Moving First Recipe



## snappyllama (Oct 4, 2014)

Hi folks,

I finally got all my goodies in and tried out this recipe.  I soaped at 90F and weighed everything in grams. As soon as I whizzed it with my SB, it hit heavy trace (pudding consistency) even before adding my FO.  

Could it be the sugar or lard doing it?  It did go a bit orange-colored on me.

Lard 45%
CO 25%
OO 25%
Caster 5%

7%SF  
2:1 Water:Lye Ratio

1.5 tsp sugar PPO - dissolved into water before adding to lye

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s404...3b1f6eb580e9/862ea0434bcf3aed39dde7f4dd93f3d9

I did manage to plop it into a mold (fingers crossed it makes soap - LOL).


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## Susie (Oct 4, 2014)

If you can give us actual measurements(i.e. gm or oz), including the amount of NaOH, we can much better start figuring it out. It should not be any of your oils, or sugar.  So something else is going on, and I only know one way to figure it out, that is by running the recipe myself.


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## snappyllama (Oct 4, 2014)

Everything is in grams except sugar:

Water 166
Lye 82

Lard 268
CO 149
OO 149
Caster 30

1.5 tsp sugar

Thanks for helping me out!


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## snappyllama (Oct 4, 2014)

I'm not sure if this matters - I'm at 8500ish elevation with 60% humidity.  It is about 55F in the house tonight (I normally refuse to start a fire or turn on a heater until Halloween - on principle).


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## Hazel (Oct 4, 2014)

I see you already got an answer while I was typing.  I think most of the  thickening could be from the water discount. However, I've had batches which quickly went to a pudding like texture when I've soaped cool. It wasn't trace, it was just the lard and coconut thickening from being left to cool. However, the soap was emulsified and saponified (except for one batch which separated). 

Did the batch change color after you added the FO? I have  used a couple of FOs which did turn soap a light orange-yellow so I know it could happen. I wouldn't think sugar would turn orange unless you soaped at a really high temp and it scorched. But I could be wrong about this.

I don't know if elevation would make a difference.

If you want to have a slower moving recipe, try 40% OO, 30% lard, 25% CO, 5% Castor, full water and soap at room temp. It will take forever to trace.


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## snappyllama (Oct 4, 2014)

Hazel said:


> I see you already got an answer while I was typing.  I think most of the  thickening could be from the water discount. However, I've had batches which quickly went to a pudding like texture when I've soaped cool. It wasn't trace, it was just the lard and coconut thickening from being left to cool. However, the soap was emulsified and saponified (except for one batch which separated).
> 
> Did the batch change color after you added the FO? I have  used a couple of FOs which did turn soap a light orange-yellow so I know it could happen. I wouldn't think sugar would turn orange unless you soaped at a really high temp and it scorched. But I could be wrong about this.
> 
> ...




It went orange and pudding-ified before I put in the FO (Ginger Ale from BB).  Both oils and lye water were at 90F. Hrmn.  

I will try out your recipe as soon as I can.  I had visions of a perfect drop swirl for my first CP - instead of a plopped horror show. But now, everything I do will be an improvement. :wink:


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## snappyllama (Oct 4, 2014)

AHA!  So I kept poking around and found folks mentioning accelerated trace at such lowland elevations of only 6000ft.  Bah.  Those folks don't even have to double pasta cook times or worry about pecan pies exploding (seriously- exploding Thanksgiving pies is a potential hazard).

Full water for me in future and less hard oils!

Thanks Hazel for the recipe!


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## fuzz-juzz (Oct 4, 2014)

When exactly did you add sugar to lye, just before combining with oils or? If that's the case, my bet would be on sugar. In fact I think it's the culprit for orange colour anyway. I had few batches go weird and orange in colour because of honey I've added.
I almost always use close to 2:1 ratio for liquid and lye and never had a problem apart from faster trace or ricing which is always FO related.
Good luck trying out recipe again.


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## Hazel (Oct 4, 2014)

snappyllama said:


> It went orange and pudding-ified before I put in the FO (Ginger Ale from BB).  Both oils and lye water were at 90F. Hrmn.



Hmm from me, too. I just don't know what could have caused it. If you had used milk, I would have understood but I don't think I've ever had discoloration when I've added sugar. At least, I don't remember having discoloration. 'Tis a puzzlement. But maybe someone else will have the answer. 

What has worked for me when a batch has thickened too quickly (like what happened to me Wednesday night :roll. I made a large batch with 33% lye concentration and had poured soap into 3 of the loaf molds. By the time I started to pour into the fourth mold, it had thickened so much that it was starting to glop out. I stopped and added slightly more water to the soap (had soap in 4 containers because I was swirling) which loosened the remaining soap enough so I could "pour" it out. It was more of a slow pour which was encouraged out of the container with a spoon. But at least the soap was a little thinner in texture so it wasn't so gloppy. I didn't weigh the water but just added a little and stirred it in with a spoon. A couple I had to add a teeny more water since they were thicker than the other two colors. Since I had used a water discount, I wasn't worried that I would have too much water.

Really? Your pecan pies explode?

I'm glad you found the answer about elevation and accelerating. Now it makes me wonder if the elevation also had some effect with the sugar. Gosh, I hope you don't have exploding soap. :shock:

You're welcome!

eta: I just saw fuzz-juzz's answer. Good point about the honey.


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## CelestialLuxuries (Oct 4, 2014)

*Elevation*

Snappy, I'm about the same elevation as you and I haven't noticed the altitude affecting my soaping. I'm in the Silverthorne/Kremmling area, Sorry didn't check to see where you're at. 

However, sugar does do crazy, funny coloring incidents. I get a dark orange when I use goats milk, honey, etc. Generally it does disappear.


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## DeeAnna (Oct 4, 2014)

"...my bet would be on sugar. In fact I think it's the culprit for orange colour anyway. I had few batches go weird and orange in colour because of honey I've added...."

Just because both are sweet doesn't mean they are the same. Honey is fructose and glucose, both monosaccharides (simple sugars). Table sugar (and maple syrup) is mostly sucrose, a disaccharide. When used in soap, honey will cause darkening, but sugar does not.

More info: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNVrCG12iNg[/ame]


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## goji_fries (Oct 4, 2014)

snappyllama said:


> I'm not sure if this matters - I'm at 8500ish elevation with 60% humidity.  It is about 55F in the house tonight (I normally refuse to start a fire or turn on a heater until Halloween - on principle).



That is another thing that may be at play although maybe not noticeably. Your elevation affects cooking times, thermostat, boiling temps and other things. In physics there is a term called the " temperature pressure realtionship". Being at your elevation (which I wish I was at), many things can be affected. 

In this case though it seems to be water discount though.


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## KatieShephard (Oct 4, 2014)

snappyllama said:


> AHA!  So I kept poking around and found folks mentioning accelerated trace at such lowland elevations of only 6000ft.  Bah.  Those folks don't even have to double pasta cook times or worry about pecan pies exploding (seriously- exploding Thanksgiving pies is a potential hazard).



Now I want to come and visit and make pies with you...just for the fun science-y-ness of it 

If it makes you feel any better, while I haven't really had fast moving recipes, I just can't seem to find the right balance of stick blending and overdo it   Have had many gloppy soaps.  Doesn't seem to affect the soap, except that I haven't ventured into pretty designs yet...need to master the art of the stickblending first!


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## snappyllama (Oct 4, 2014)

Thanks to everyone!  

Next time I'm eliminating the sugar and water discount!


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## goji_fries (Oct 4, 2014)

snappyllama said:


> Thanks to everyone!
> 
> Next time I'm eliminating the sugar and water discount!



Do you use soapcalc for your recipes? I think the water % default for them is 2.62:1 or something like that.


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## snappyllama (Oct 4, 2014)

CelestialLuxuries said:


> Snappy, I'm about the same elevation as you and I haven't noticed the altitude affecting my soaping. I'm in the Silverthorne/Kremmling area, Sorry didn't check to see where you're at.
> 
> However, sugar does do crazy, funny coloring incidents. I get a dark orange when I use goats milk, honey, etc. Generally it does disappear.



Howdy neighbor -  I'm out by Conifer.  How is Silverthorne this fall?  Our aspens mostly got excited by that early snow, started to turn yellow, changed their minds and went brown instead.  

I'm hoping that the orange color fades!  I was trying too much on my first soap... ahem.


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## snappyllama (Oct 4, 2014)

goji_fries said:


> Do you use soapcalc for your recipes? I think the water % default for them is 2.62:1 or something like that.



I did, and I was trying to be good... but I think too much reading bit me in my own bottom.  It seemed like the general consensus was a 2:1 water ratio when I searched on water ratios.  I wanted to be like the big kids.   

Oh the plus side, I just checked my mold, and it looks like soap.  Ahem, it looks a lot like soap!


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## Susie (Oct 4, 2014)

KatieShephard said:


> Now I want to come and visit and make pies with you...just for the fun science-y-ness of it
> 
> If it makes you feel any better, while I haven't really had fast moving recipes, I just can't seem to find the right balance of stick blending and overdo it   Have had many gloppy soaps.  Doesn't seem to affect the soap, except that I haven't ventured into pretty designs yet...need to master the art of the stickblending first!



I know I am probably the only person to ever have this issue, but when I changed the light bulb right over where I stick blend to a higher wattage, I suddenly became able to judge my trace much more accurately.  It turned many previously glopped recipes into poured ones.


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## sagehill (Oct 4, 2014)

> I finally got all my goodies in and tried out this recipe.  I soaped at  90F and weighed everything in grams. As soon as I whizzed it with my SB,  it hit heavy trace (pudding consistency) even before adding my FO.
> 
> Lard 45%
> CO 25%


You have a lot of hard oils here... 90F is rather cool for such a high percentage, especially if your house is chillier, now that autumn is here.  Try keeping your oils warmer, at 110 or so.


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## snappyllama (Oct 4, 2014)

sagehill said:


> You have a lot of hard oils here... 90F is rather cool for such a high percentage, especially if your house is chillier, now that autumn is here.  Try keeping your oils warmer, at 110 or so.



Thanks for the temperature advice.  I'm taking notes. 

Y'all are all so helpful!


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## CelestialLuxuries (Oct 4, 2014)

*Trees and soap*

Howdy from Silverthorne, the Aspens are behaving, still in a nice light yellow. Thinking that we're going to be in color for a couple days then gone.

As for soap, one thing that I find odd, but oh so true for me is problems soaping at too low a temp. If I let my oils and lye get to room temp my soap immediately seizes. I tried it again with 3 batches just today.  if i soap around 110-120 it's fine. Very strange.


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## sagehill (Oct 4, 2014)

It's easy to do. I've done it too, going from warm summer RT soaping to cool fall, saying, "What's going on???" Probably because I don't want to believe that summer really is over for the year. lol

2:1 water:lye solution seems to be fairly standard these days... it should be fine if your oils are warm enough, though if your FOs have a tendency to seize or rice, 29-30% is better.  

Lard supposedly slows trace, though if temps are cool it won't.  I've been playing with peanut oil lately and have noticed that using around 20% PO slows trace considerably, even with a stronger lye solution.


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## Hazel (Oct 5, 2014)

sagehill said:


> Lard supposedly slows trace, though if temps are cool it won't.



Right. I've had lard (also other solid oils) thicken because of the cool temperature so I see trace surprisingly fast. It may be true trace or it may not. However, it's not an issue as long as the batch is past the emulsification phase.


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## cmzaha (Oct 5, 2014)

Hazel said:


> I see you already got an answer while I was typing.  I think most of the  thickening could be from the water discount. However, I've had batches which quickly went to a pudding like texture when I've soaped cool. It wasn't trace, it was just the lard and coconut thickening from being left to cool. However, the soap was emulsified and saponified (except for one batch which separated).
> 
> Did the batch change color after you added the FO? I have  used a couple of FOs which did turn soap a light orange-yellow so I know it could happen. I wouldn't think sugar would turn orange unless you soaped at a really high temp and it scorched. But I could be wrong about this.
> 
> ...



I was going to mention the same fact. I have also had my lard and coconut oil thicken and separated into a layer of unsaponified fat. It was cold in my house and I soap room temp. I watch it closer in the cold winter months, lol, when we get winter....


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