# Three ingredient soap recipe- Avocado, coconut, cocoa



## Maaki (Dec 29, 2018)

Hello guys. Im new to the forum and first post here . Im somewhat of a newbie and I am planning on making a very m̶o̶i̶s̶t̶u̶r̶i̶z̶i̶n̶g̶ conditioning and luxurious bar trying to use exclusively avocado oil, coconut oil and cocoa butter in HP and would like your opinions on the matter. The reason for choosing these ingredients is that i can actually get them quite cheaply and of great quality directly from the producers and Id prefer to use exclusively locally produced oils. (I live in Mexico)

I have thought of making it as follows:

7% superfat

30% 76 coconut oil
25% cocoa butter
45% avocado oil

I know that I am pushing the boundaries of cocoa butter and avocado oil so I could balance them with OO and include a 5% of castor oil but I would prefer to stick to those three. Im just somewhat afraid that the bar will come out too brittle and with a poor lather. Does anyone have experience on doing something similar? Or does anyone have any opinions one what the results will be/ how to improve the recipe?

Thanks a lot everyone and looking forward to actively participate in the forums


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## cmzaha (Dec 29, 2018)

First off, soap is not moisturizing, it cleans. I would definitely cut the Coco Butter down to 10-15% so your bar will not be as brittle. As for the 25% CO you may love it and just need to try it. I would also cut the superfat to no more than 5%. Avocado oil is nice but it does not create a bar that lathers so your 25% CO just may work. Making small batches and testing is the only way you will know if a soap is what you want. We can look at the numbers but every soapmaker has a different opinion of what makes a great soap. Testing is the key

Over a year ago I did a single Avocado Oil soap and it is still not lathering unless used with a bath pouf, although it feels luscious.


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## shunt2011 (Dec 29, 2018)

Hello and welcome.  Cmzaha has given you some good advice.  I would also add 5% Castor to your recipe. Make a small batch and see how you like it.  Soap can be less stripping but unfortunately isn’t moisturizing.


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## Relle (Dec 29, 2018)

Maaki, as this is your first post, please go to the Intro forum and tell us about yourself.


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## Maaki (Dec 29, 2018)

Sorry. newbie mistake. meant conditioning. . So do you think that 30%CO might be too stripping? Then I do guess Ill bring it down to 25%. I definitely dont want to make it single AvoOil because of whay ive read so thats why im trying to use as much CO and cocoa butter as possible to help balance it. Also as I mentioned before cost isnt a concern so thats why I dont mind splurging on Cocoa Butter or Avo oil. I also thought about the 7% superfat to balance the amount of CO. 

I think ill definitely add the 5% castor oil and I guess I will just experiment with the Avo oil /cocoa butter percentage. Thanks a lot for your support. I will start trying some experiments and see how they turn out. Will keep you guys posted .


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## Maaki (Feb 5, 2019)

So. slow forward one month (alas its the waiting part the only one i dislike from soapmaking.) I made a 100g unscented bar with the following content:

25% coconut oil
15% cocoa butter
5% castor oil
55% avocado oil

Today i tested the bar by taking a shower with it. I have the following observations: lather comes out very nice and creamy. even unscented it smells amazing and its like bathing in chocolate. Afterwards i only feel my face slightly dry, but the rest of my body feels absolutely amazing.  The only downside I think is that the bar is still soft-ish as cmzaha predicted  This is after 5 weeks curing so probably  wont get much harder. I will attempt to make another test cutting coconut oil by 5 percent and adding beeswax. However, I am a bit afraid the lather will suffer. (maybe adding sugar will improve it? There goes by far the 3 ingredient idea lol)  Anyways, if you are ok with the bar being just a tad softish and slightly striping for face then its a great soap .


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## Dean (Feb 5, 2019)

Unrefined AVO is high in unsaponfiables contributing to softness.  Try refined and add 1 tsp salt per  PPO for hardness.

CO is stripping/drying.  Most use it at 15-20.

BTW u can make ok soap with 3 ingredients.  Castor is not nec altho I always use it.


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## Maaki (Feb 5, 2019)

@Dean
I used refined AVO oil, but I believe cutting on CoconutO, removing Castor Oil AND adding salt would maybe be detrimental to the lather. Im now experimenting a batch with unrefined AVO oil but the smell of refined is much more appealing. I also want to make AMAZING  soap, not just ok soap. So dont mind being less minimalistic as long as avo oil and cocoa butter are the protagonists.


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## Saponificarian (Feb 6, 2019)

I love this recipe:

20% Cocoa Butter
25 % Shea Butter
35% Rapeseed oil/Avocado oil
20% Coconut oil/Unrefined Palm Kernel Oil

My mum won't use any other soap but this and she usually knows if I try to switch out the soap. It is not brittle AT ALL.
 Personally, I will make a tweak of your recipe:

30% Cocoa Butter ( Since cost is not an issue)
20% Coconut oil
45% Avocado oil
5% Castor

Use 2:1 ratio water: lye if you are not swirling and I think you will be okay.

I think the not using Cocoa butter in high percentage rule can be broken depending on other oils in your recipe. I reckon with 45% Avocado oil, your soap shouldn't be brittle. Mine wasn't and my shea butter is harder than my Mango butter at room temperature in hot and humid Lagos.


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## Dawni (Feb 6, 2019)

Sugar helps with bubbles, so milks, which contain sugar, do the same. You might not need Castor oil if you add sugar to your water before the lye, and/or add milks to your oils (powdered is easiest btw). 

You can still experiment with upping cocoa if you want to see how hard it'll go. I've tried it at 20% with shea at 10% (and vice versa) and I've not noticed extra brittleness in the soap. Mango is another good alternative or addition.

I want to try that first recipe @Saponificarian, sounds lovely


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## Saponificarian (Feb 6, 2019)

@Dawni, please do and let me know how you like it.


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## Dawni (Feb 6, 2019)

Saponificarian said:


> @Dawni, please do and let me know how you like it.


I will 

I'm gonna HP it. My foray into CP hasn't made me wanna change my preference for HP lol Also I can at least do the initial test right away.


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## Maaki (Feb 9, 2019)

Wow well I guess there is only one way to find out. Time to start making some soap . I will definitely try your suggestions. Its annoying that I cannot easily find shea/mango butter in this country. But will try experimenting a bit with the resources at hand. One thing I havent tried and I think ill definitely experiment with is adding some agave syrup to a bar. I mean if I'm going full Mexican mode in my ingredients I might as well try it.


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## KiwiMoose (Feb 9, 2019)

Maaki said:


> Wow well I guess there is only one way to find out. Time to start making some soap . I will definitely try your suggestions. Its annoying that I cannot easily find shea/mango butter in this country. But will try experimenting a bit with the resources at hand. One thing I havent tried and I think ill definitely experiment with is adding some agave syrup to a bar. I mean if I'm going full Mexican mode in my ingredients I might as well try it.


Can you get agave pulp or gel at all?  That might be nice?  Kind of 'aloe' ish?


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## Maaki (Feb 10, 2019)

@KiwiMoose  I think that unlike aloe vera, the leaves of agave are very fibrous and can only be used for feeding livestock. ( But we do use them for cooking sometimes). What I could definitely use for soap is agave juice (which is very sweet and is what tequila is made of) instead of water... hadn't thought of that possibility but sounds like something Id really like to try. I only wonder if the slimyness of it will transfer to the soap.


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## KiwiMoose (Feb 10, 2019)

Is this an agave?


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## Maaki (Feb 10, 2019)

That definitely looks like an agave. Although a species I'm not familiar with.


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## cmzaha (Feb 10, 2019)

If you want an "amazing" soap, in my opinion you are going to have to use other oils to accomplish such. While a nice 3 oil soap can be made it is not going to be amazing in my opinion. High CO is just  *not* going to give a nice non stripping soap. I keep CO below 20% adding in Lard, Tallow, Avocado, Castor, and another liquid oils such as HO Canola, HO Sunflower, or Safflower. As a side not for years I use regular Sunflower and Canola, not over 10% , with no dos issues. OO also is fine I am just not a fan of OO in soap. 

Not knowing what part of Mexico you live I know some areas do not have great plumbing. I am talking about Cities on the Gulf of California and Baja. I have not traveled to Mexico City areas. The point of this is, high superfat soap is not good for plumbing issues. I live in a house with issues so I had to design a soap with low CO, to cut down on a stripping soap, that still lathers, but has a very low superfat. Superfat also contributes to cutting down lather. It has taken years of experimenting to come up with my go to recipes.


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## Dean (Feb 10, 2019)

Maaki said:


> @KiwiMoose  I think that unlike aloe vera, the leaves of agave are very fibrous and can only be used for feeding livestock. ( But we do use them for cooking sometimes). What I could definitely use for soap is agave juice (which is very sweet and is what tequila is made of) instead of water... hadn't thought of that possibility but sounds like something Id really like to try. I only wonder if the slimyness of it will transfer to the soap.



Me and many others substitute water with aloe juice for its lather boosting ability.  It doesn’t make slimy soap.


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## Alfa_Lazcares (Feb 10, 2019)

Maaki said:


> Wow well I guess there is only one way to find out. Time to start making some soap . I will definitely try your suggestions. Its annoying that I cannot easily find shea/mango butter in this country. But will try experimenting a bit with the resources at hand. One thing I havent tried and I think ill definitely experiment with is adding some agave syrup to a bar. I mean if I'm going full Mexican mode in my ingredients I might as well try it.



You actually can get butters here in Mexico. I found two providers so far that ship eveywhere (or search in mercado libre), but the point is, they are not that hard to come by, its just that depending on your provider they can get expensive. 
As for aloe, i am pretty sure you have a tia somewhere that has an aloe plant! Get her or him to give you a pup and then you’ll have a supply.


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## Maaki (Feb 10, 2019)

@Alfa_Lazcares , any chance youd like to share your providers? haha but yes, I know you can probably find the supplies online, its just that the price-benefit doesn't seem worth it, adding to shipping costs and  everything ends up being more than twice the price when I can just go walking to the marketplace and get great quality products there. I'm now also kind of in a patriotic mood and Im trying to use exclusively national products.

I will have to try with the aloe vera. Indeed Im quite sure I can just steal some from my grandmother but the whole part of cleaning the plant sounds a bit tedious. The final product will probably be worth it though. 

@cmzaha Plumbing is indeed an issue in most places in Mexico, water in the entral part of the country is also usually hard, so I will keep that in mind. Right now Im using 5% superfat but can try cutting it further and see what happens.

In other thoughts, the other thing I was also contemplating about is using nopal cactus slime instead of water. In traditional architecture its used as a hardening agent for cladding and paint, so I think that besides its health benefits it could boost the lather and make a harder bar. 

Oh gosh.... So many options and possibilities. Im getting excited just thinking about it.


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## cmzaha (Feb 10, 2019)

You do not need butters to make a nice soap


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## Alfa_Lazcares (Feb 10, 2019)

The one I just found but havent actually order from them since i dont need supplies right now is BR PROQUIM google it like that and you’ll find the kichnik link of their store. They apparently are mexican with mexican sources so no excuse on the national products part there ha! Another one is Bio Alei, have ordered quite a bit from them, but their prices are higher specially on butters. I dont know where you live but if in the City then there is also the Drogeria Cosmopolita. They dont ship so you would need yo go to one of the stores. 

Finally really do take a look at mercado libre. I remember at least one supplier from Puebla of cocoa butter that was a very good price (once again have not ordered from them)

I dont really use butters, thats why i havent actually order them. I stick to basic oils. 
Cleaning the aloe is really easy. Doesnt take too much time. Its just boring.


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## Clarice (Feb 10, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> Is this an agave?



@KiwiMoose - I am pretty sure that is a grown man hiding behind a plant, but I won't tell anyone


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## Dawni (Feb 10, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> You do not need butters to make a nice soap


Unless you can't find lard/tallow or palm, then you'll need them as hardeners, if you're not gonna use waxes hehehe

A more experienced soaper might disagree, but for a newbie like me, that info worked out well in trying to formulate recipes.

You've already gotten great advice so what I'll say is... Go soap more! Haha your ideas all sound interesting and I'd love to hear about your results.


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## KiwiMoose (Feb 10, 2019)

Clarice said:


> @KiwiMoose - I am pretty sure that is a grown man hiding behind a plant, but I won't tell anyone


Yes, he was ripping it out, it was taking over the garden! There’s now a lemon tree in its place


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## Angela Zeigler (Feb 11, 2019)

The coconut and Avocado bring me back to the topic of salt bars as I am so anxious about mine. As soon as I read the post I went directly into the kitchen and whipped up a batch. The recipe is 80% coconut 20% avocado at a 15% superfat and 50% salt added at trace. I wanted so badly to use aloe in place of the water in my lye but I didnt have enough on hand. They're 1 month cured currently and I haven't touched them since unmolded. But I can't wait to try it out. It was not mentioned as to how HP would work but I have had zero luck HP personally. I wish I knew how to link the post about it.


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## Dawni (Feb 11, 2019)

Angela Zeigler said:


> The coconut and Avocado bring me back to the topic of salt bars as I am so anxious about mine. As soon as I read the post I went directly into the kitchen and whipped up a batch. The recipe is 80% coconut 20% avocado at a 15% superfat and 50% salt added at trace. I wanted so badly to use aloe in place of the water in my lye but I didnt have enough on hand. They're 1 month cured currently and I haven't touched them since unmolded. But I can't wait to try it out. It was not mentioned as to how HP would work but I have had zero luck HP personally. I wish I knew how to link the post about it.


I've not tried making salt bars yet, only brine soap, but if they're anywhere similar you might have a hard time HP-ing it. My experience with HP brine soap was bad lol. That soap is now mentioned as the blue cheese soap in the fugly soap thread lol. Maybe there's a difference, since the salt is added at very different times? I don't know, sorry.. Hopefully some of our experienced members can answer that one for you.


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## shunt2011 (Feb 11, 2019)

Angela Zeigler said:


> The coconut and Avocado bring me back to the topic of salt bars as I am so anxious about mine. As soon as I read the post I went directly into the kitchen and whipped up a batch. The recipe is 80% coconut 20% avocado at a 15% superfat and 50% salt added at trace. I wanted so badly to use aloe in place of the water in my lye but I didnt have enough on hand. They're 1 month cured currently and I haven't touched them since unmolded. But I can't wait to try it out. It was not mentioned as to how HP would work but I have had zero luck HP personally. I wish I knew how to link the post about it.



I make my salt bars with avocado oil and love them.  I cure mine a long long time before using them though.


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## Deborah Long (Feb 11, 2019)

@KiwiMoose - Yes!  That IS an agave.  Specifically what is called (here in Arizona, at least) a century plant.  They produce one giant bloom and then die (so I understand), so really, he only needed to wait a little more and it would have been easy to rip out!  lol


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## Maaki (Feb 11, 2019)

Angela Zeigler said:


> The coconut and Avocado bring me back to the topic of salt bars as I am so anxious about mine. As soon as I read the post I went directly into the kitchen and whipped up a batch. The recipe is 80% coconut 20% avocado at a 15% superfat and 50% salt added at trace. I wanted so badly to use aloe in place of the water in my lye but I didnt have enough on hand. They're 1 month cured currently and I haven't touched them since unmolded. But I can't wait to try it out. It was not mentioned as to how HP would work but I have had zero luck HP personally. I wish I knew how to link the post about it.



Actually, at the same time of my first experiment mentioned in this post I also made a salt bar version of the recipe that is quite similar to yours. I made it as follows: 

75%coconut
10%cocoa butter
10%avocado oil
5% castor oil
15%superfat and  50%salt added at trace

Needless to say I got impatient and decided to try a bar after 1 month cure. I don't have any other experience with salt bars but can't imagine soap getting any better than this. Its like being reborn after the shower. Cant wait to see how they work after 4months cure.


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## Angela Zeigler (Feb 11, 2019)

Maaki said:


> Actually, at the same time of my first experiment mentioned in this post I also made a salt bar version of the recipe that is quite similar to yours. I made it as follows:
> 
> 75%coconut
> 10%cocoa butter
> ...


I have been slapping my hand away for a week wanting to try mine! And they're so unique and pretty too! Maybe I will give I .at the end of this month and try the typical 8 week cure. If I can cut a bar in half


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## Maaki (Feb 24, 2019)

So just adding some thoughts here. 

I have just finished making a couple of batches experimenting with agave syrup and cactus slime. I am now attempting the recipe as follows:

20%coconut
20%cocoa
60%avocado 

I used a 15% water as a percentage of oils (recipe called for 13% lye as percentage of oils) and 20% cactus slime as percentage of oils. (to a total of 35% liquid to oil ratio)  I added 30gr per kg of oils of agave syrup to half of the mixture.

I am really hoping for the cactus slime to give good results. Just to note however, that the cactus slime really slows down trace and heats up quite a lot when mixed with the lye. It also traps a lot of air when using the hand mixer. The agave syrup on the other hand speeds up trace and discolors to a very nice orange-reddish color. Will keep you updated with the results.


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## Maaki (Jun 5, 2019)

So, back on the forum after some time letting soaps cure. My results have been quite successful and I have found a local producer of avocado oil for a great price and quality and I ended up changing the recipe to as follows:

20%coconut
15%cocoa butter
65% avocado oil

(did end up being a 3 ingredient soap )

After 2 months curing the soap is amazing. The experiments with 20% cocoa ended up being just a tad brittle, so decided to lower it to 15% for the next batches. It laters quite nicely, not to the point I'd love but it shows the same lather proportion as a commercial bar, the smell of the unscented bar is quite nice and chocolate-y, and leaves the skin feeling very nice, even for face. I guess the coconut could be dropped to 18% maybe, but 20 is as far as i'll compromise with the lather.

It only ends up being not as hard as I'd like it to, my friends have told me that if its not kept dry it tends to melt fast, yet i have not received a single negative comment on the quality of the soap (and quite a lot of compliments). I think that with 1-2% of candelilla wax the hardness issue will be solved (anyone experienced using this wax in particular?).

One thing that I have discovered though, and I will have to experiment further on is the use of cactus mucilage on the soap. It doesn't significatively add any hardness or improve the lather, but it definitely slows down trace by quite a lot, so it could be a very useful additive for anyone wanting to slow down the process. I also get the impression like that the feeling on the skin of the bars that contain it is nicer though but it could be my imagination.

One more thing I found out is that the mucilage actually dissolves the lye using a smaller amount than water, I think even in a proportion of 2:1 lye to mucilage solution the lye would be fully dissolved. Actually for the previously mentioned batches I used a 1:1 proportion (which is supposedly the lowest you should go) and still ended up with a very liquidy batter that took me 3 days to be able to unmold. So this definitely brings to my mind some questions about the possibilities. I mean, if my thoughts are correct then some advanced soapmakers could be able to further increase their water discounts  (and maybe cut down on curing time?) Anyways, more experiments are needed on the subject, maybe some of you might want to give it a try . Just letting you guys know of my progress, we'll see what other soapy things I come up with  

P.D. The salt bar is also amazing. won't change that recipe. (Just might get rid of the castor oil for the three ingredients sake as well)


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## TAS (Jun 5, 2019)

Maaki, This is such an interesting thread and I applaud you for being patriotic and using products from Mexico. I have a question - would coconut milk be something that is available in Mexico? I love using coconut cream or milk in my soap, and perhaps it can contribute something to your already great recipe.


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## shunt2011 (Jun 5, 2019)

@Maaki - your soap will be highly soluble unless being allowed to dry between usage and being kept well drained due to the high percentage of Avocado oil.   Adding wax you will need to test it out.  The wax you are considering is quite a bit harder than say beeswax or soywax and may make your bar waxy feeling.  I've used beeswax at 2% without issue but don't use it too often these days.


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## earlene (Jun 5, 2019)

Maaki said:


> So, back on the forum after some time letting soaps cure. My results have been quite successful and I have found a local producer of avocado oil for a great price and quality and I ended up changing the recipe to as follows:
> 
> 20%coconut
> 15%cocoa butter
> ...



*Maaki*, welcome back.

I have not used candlilla wax in soap.  I have used aloe, as well, so I can understand the improved feel of soap made with your cactus mucilage.  There are sugars and other attributes of the cactus that do produce a nice feel to soap as well as more bubbles.  Interesting that you have dissolved lye in cactus mucilage to get a higher than 50% solution!  I have never even attempted to dissolve dry lye in less than a 1:1 mixture with any liquid, so have no experience with that.  But I have made soap with a 40% lye solution and I do not believe it cures any faster.  It may lose water faster, but that's not all there is to a cure anyway.  There are other things going on in the soap that improves the performance and increases all the desirable attributes of soap that go beyond water loss.

I have not used candelilla wax in soap, but I have used Beeswax, Lanolin, and Soy Wax.  Soy wax is the one I use most often for a harder bar.  I can use more of it than Beeswax, it costs less, plus I have more time to do swirls, and I like it.  Of course you may not be able to get it; I don't know.

Regarding your friends who are learning to dry soap between uses, you could give them some kind of soap savers (to facilitate soap drying between use) to go along with the soap.  Maybe even make them yourself if you are so inclined.  I always give soap savers to family & friends the first time I give them soap.  Educating others is one of the fun things about making soap, IMO.

I had another thought about your cactus mucilage.  I believe it is a humectant, meaning it will draw water to itself.  How humid is it where you live in your part of Mexico?  If it is near the Gulf or jungles, or (I don't know - anywhere humid) I would suspect your cactus mucilage might be attracting additional water from the humidity in the air, depending of course on how much humidity you have.  Do beads of water accumulate on your salt soaps?  If so, you have high humidity.


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## Maaki (Aug 10, 2019)

Hello @TAS , I can definitely find coconut milk, however the one in the stores have a lot of additives and preservatices that I didnt want in my soaps so I could try making my own, which I think would be better. Theres actually a coconut store a couple of blocks away from where I live . I am just dreading the idea of the mess I'll make trying this but I guess it will be nothing compared to the usual mess I make while making soap. Actually... the coconut oil I am using for my soaps comes directly from the producer in the Pacific Coast so I could even give them a call to see if they could also send some coconut milk.

I have also just bought quite some quantity of candelilla wax but I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it. It is super hard, brittle and shiny. But it has a brownish color I'm not sure I like and it has a floral-honeylike-mystic smell that reminds me of a church, (which i guess is because maybe churches use candles with candelilla wax in them?) lol. But I guess in the percentage that will be used in the soap it will not be significant. 

@earlene Thanks for your comments, I will definitely tell my friends to use soap savers. And I live in Central Mexico, so its actually dry-ish and quite a good place to cure soaps. I have decided on not to use cactus mucilage on my cp soaps because of the liquid mess it makes but will make some experiments in hp... maybe as it did in cp it will actually make a fluid HP? we'll see.


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## Maaki (Nov 8, 2019)

So finally another update on this topic!

Ive entirely ditched the cactus mucilage idea. Sounds good. Doesn't work . (Only in cold process and using sugars in the recipe. Otherwise ends up being mushy and wont ever dry. Honestly.... 3 months into curing and still soft).

Anyways. Ive finally made my first large batches for my now 4 -ingredient soap. (Just passed by to show off honestly, each one is ca. 13kg.) 

I ended opting for high temperature hot process, since given the quantity, cold process always ended up overheating and causing volcanoes. I got the soap fully cooked in 20mins and the annoying part is waiting for it to cool down. It looks ugly and lumpy but looks great when cut, and already improving my method to improve this. Now its just a matter of selling the bars.

 In the pic you can see my assorment of lemongrass-verbena, cedar-agave, lavender-charcoal, cocoa-agave, and mint-charcoal. I also made a rosemary-verbena one that im trying to descifer the best way to cut. Actually thinking in this scale a carpenter's bench saw might be good. Anyone with experience using one that can say how good/stupid this idea is?

I particularly love the granite-like texture of the mint-charcoal one. 

Quite proud of myself actually. These are all-natural and all-Mexican. Even the unscented agave-cocoa one smells great. Hoping the customers will love them all as much as I do. So Im ready for the Christmas season and just waiting for them to finish curing.


Greetings


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## cmzaha (Nov 8, 2019)

They look very nice Maaki and I hope your customers love them. You have put in a decent time experimenting and I hope it all works out for you.


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## dibbles (Nov 8, 2019)

They look good Maaki - best of luck with your Christmas sales!


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