# "I will PAY you to teach me!"



## mandy318 (Oct 24, 2015)

I have two acquaintances lately, to whom I've gifted soap, and who want to learn how to make it themselves. For each of them I've sent them the link to this forum, told them what supplies they would need and also directed them to a few blogs and articles that got me started and helped build my knowledge. 

The response is "Can't you just teach me?" or "I don't have time for all that research." or "I'm not really a 'researcher' like you are, can't I just come over to your house and you can show me?" 

This just kills me. I feel like its sort of lazy--like I've read and researched for months, then finally took the leap and just did it, and they want to leach that knowledge and experience from me without any effort on their part. 

Add to that that I'm very new! I've only made 8 batches of soap. Just because I've turned out some usable bars does not mean I'm qualified to teach someone else to make soap. I've also been lucky so far not to run into overheating, ricing, glycerin rivers, volcanoes or any number of problems--so I'm not qualified to tell anyone how to avoid them or identify them. 

I also feel like if a person's personality type is such that they are put off by the thought of researching something thoroughly, seeking out new information, trying it on their own, evaluating results and waiting on cure times to test the soap--then are they really cut out for soaping? 

Soaping is a slow process that can't really be hurried. 

What about all of you experienced soapers--do you get requests to teach soaping and how to you respond??


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## commoncenz (Oct 24, 2015)

I've received exactly three requests to teach someone how to soap. It was surprising how each turned out. 

First was my daughter, who I thought would be "the one". Figured she'd take the blue pill, open her eyes and soap for the rest of her life. When I soaped with her, we had ricing, partial separation of the batter and I forgot to add the FO. I think I was more nervous than she was. In any event, while she enjoyed spending time with her father and seeing what it is I do ... no go. Soaping wasn't for her.

Second was my son. He's never seen me prepare things from beginning to end. Just working with masterbatched oils/lye. He has lined a mold, mixed colors, added lye to oils, SB etc. I think he's hooked as he's now made two batches in the last week. I'm introducing him to the rest of the process slowly.

Third was my uncle (not the "older teen" for those who have read any of my posts). He wanted to learn step by step, but no research. Just wanted to jump right in and be shown how to make soap "like you do".  ... Also wanted my recipes so he could start "selling that soap if you won't". He was respectfully told to ... well, this is a nice site so, I'll leave it to y'all to gather what he was told. We haven't spoken in about 4 months.


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## navigator9 (Oct 24, 2015)

When people ask me if it's hard to make soap, I always have a difficult time answering. Because it's not hard, and yet it's complicated. It's not hard, because the actual process pretty straightforward, but there are so many variables, depending on the oils you use, the FOs, the techniques, so many things that can go wrong, that you need to know about, how to identify them, how to deal with them, how to avoid them, etc. etc. etc. 

So I think you're wise, after having made only 8 batches, to decline teaching your friends. I've had people ask me "how do you make soap", and when I start to explain, they look at me like I'm deliberately trying to make it sound complicated, to discourage them, like if I really wanted to, I could explain it in a couple of minutes, and then they could go home and do it themselves. There's a lot to learn if you want to make soap, and if you're not willing to put in the time to do the research, then it probably isn't for you.


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## Susie (Oct 24, 2015)

I completely understand what y'all are saying.  And I agree to some degree.  

However, I have a couple of situations at work that beg a "soapmaking 101" type demonstration.  

The first is several females who all have eczema.  I told them how mine got "cured", and volunteered to make a batch so they could try handmade soap for themselves.  I don't sell soap, and I don't want to get into the habit of providing them with free soap, so I told them they could have one bar and one group lesson at someone else's house.  The bars need about another week to be good, so we will see how it goes.  All of them got a supply and equipment list with where to buy them cheap, the information for this forum, and the info for "Soaping 101" YouTube channel.  It is up to them to do the research.

The second is a guy who makes his own wine, cheese, pickles, kim chi, bread, etc.  He does not have internet, so I printed off a tutorial, gave him a supply and equipment list with where to buy cheaply, and offered to give one lesson on a day my hubby is off.  He has already checked a book out from the library.  I then gave him a "better book" list, including ebooks he can check out from the library online, and read on his phone.

So, no-one is getting direct hand holding type lessons like I gave my son.  My daughter is not interested.  But they are going to have to act like they have at least read one thing I suggested before I will invest more time and effort into their education.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 24, 2015)

Aye - at its simplest it is mixing fats and lyes. But it is actually so much more than that. There are so many things about soaping that only experience can teach, or that you don't know that you need to know it until it's too late


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## CritterPoor (Oct 24, 2015)

i have a co-worker that buys M&P bases from Michael's & Hobby Lobby, then criticizes me for making a "lye soap" in my kitchen.  Anyway, earlier this week she goes, "Oh, next time you plan to make a batch, let me know and I"ll come over. I want to see how you do it."    Oh honey, after that little fit you just had about how you can't believe I make it inside, let me tell you where to shove it.


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## snappyllama (Oct 24, 2015)

I have a family member infected with a get rich quick outlook on life.  With all the money and energy he has spent on his schemes, he'd probably actually be rich if he directed it at "working" for a "company" in a real "job" by "waking up" and going to "work" and listening to a "boss". Those are all like foreign concepts to him. Sigh. At least I'm not married to him.  

Most recently, I tried to explain to him that getting into soap making wasn't a fast and easy way to make a ton of money... I figure that I could net $1.50 a bar wholesale and his eyes lit up... then I told him about the research and development, the paying of myself, the insurance, costs of running and developing a business, the failures, and testing. His eyes lost that shine. It sounded like "work". Then he saw my cutter and molds. Now he thinks he's going to make a ton of money doing that.  Maybe I'll actually score a mold out of it. I doubt it though... I'm sure his wife will love the spanking new woodworking tools that will sit collecting dust when he realizes that one year of shop class taken in junior high <> master builder knowledge. Maybe she'll talk him out of it...


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## gigisiguenza (Oct 24, 2015)

Apologies in advance for my lengthy post - this hit a hot button for me because of a recent conversation.

My friends usually go glassy eyed if they ask me about soaping and I start discussing it LOL. Most are not at all interested in making it, they just want to know when the next testers are coming their way, and when I'm gonna feel confident enough to sell (they wanna buy).

But I did have one friend ask me to teach them how to make soap. And I got excited, because then I would have someone to soap with! So I gave them the list of places I learned from (blogs, this forum, YouTube channels, etc) and told them I would love to teach them what I know and help them learn, but they really need to learn some of it on their own. Their response to this was, a week later, to ask me to just teach them. When I asked if they went to any of the links I gave them, they said yes, but it was too much info, boring, and they just want to make soap, it looks like fun, and they really just want to make pretty soaps, not learn all that science.

My response was an  involuntary chuckle (couldn't help it, I just escaped). When they asked me why I was laughing, I told them - if all they wanted was to make pretty soap, they should have said so, because they could be making soap tonight - they just needed to go to the craft store and get some melt n pour, some molds, and they could have some soaps in a few hours. Then I had to explain what MP was. When done, she said she wanted soap like mine, but didn't see why she needed to spend months learning.

I've only been making soap for about 4 months or so, I wouldn't dream of trying to teach someone how the science of soap, and it kinda aggravated me that she thought the "boring science part" was unnecessary, when the "boring science part" is precisely what making soap is! She could see I was aggravated and asked me why.

I told her that I started by spending a good 6 months reading everything I could find on soap and how it works, watching every video that I could find, then practicing running recipes through lye calculators to see what the numbers told me - all before I ever made my first batch of soap. She seemed surprised by this and commented that it seemed like a lot of prep to go through before even making soap, and said "isn't it just mixing fats with lye?" I didn't think she would fully appreciate how much more than just adding fats to lye it was if I just explained, so I handed her my stack of notebooks and said: 

- the top one is info on oils n what they do, and additives n what they do
- the next one is info on natural colorants, how to use them, what to avoid, and how to make them
- the third one is info on process methods - CP, CPOP, HP, rebatching, etc
- the fourth is info on types of soaps, like castille, bastille, recipe creation, and soaping disasters like volcanoes, ricing, etc 
- and the last one (my binder) is my batches to date, with recipe percentages, batch properties, pour notes, cure notes, usage testing, etc. 
- Oh and the pretty notebook is just ideas for soaps, designs etc.

She opened the binder and looked at a few pages, then looked at me and asked "why on earth do you need these kinds of notes for a friggin bar of soap??"

My response?

Because a friggin bar of soap can be either a work of art or a nightmare. It can be the best dang thing you've ever used on your skin, or it can be the worst and possibly scar your skin. The research is what makes the difference. Without the research, you don't understand what you're creating, and while you might successfully make safe soap by using someone else's recipe, you won't have a clue why it's safe, so you won't understand how to make sure it's safe every time. So, as boring as the science part might be, it's a necessary part of learning how to make *good* soap.

If all you wanna do is make pretty soap, buy MP and you're good to go. 
If you wanna make real soap, then learn.
There are no short cuts.

She hasn't asked me again. Now she just bugs me to hurry up and get good enough so she can buy mine LOL.


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## notapantsday (Oct 24, 2015)

Some people just want to see if they like it without doing hours of research first and I think there's nothing wrong with that.

For years, I have always wondered what making soap would be like and kind of wanted to try it. I think if I had known someone who could show me how it's done, I would have been hooked much sooner. Of course, at that point I would have started reading up on everything but it's always good if you can try it out first, just like you go tandem skydiving with an instructor before you buy a parachute.

Personally, I'll gladly take time to teach anything to a friend. It's usually a lot more fun than doing it alone and if you manage to get your friend on board, you can exchange experiences and do it together more often.

Of course, some things just involve research and there's no point teaching someone who is completely unwilling to do it. But a lot of the time, once you've seen how something works and tried it out a bit, the research part gets much less intimidating because you can relate it to your experience.


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## Susie (Oct 24, 2015)

If I could give you 1000 likes for that, I would.


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## gigisiguenza (Oct 24, 2015)

notapantsday said:


> Some people just want to see if they like it without doing hours of research first and I think there's nothing wrong with that.
> 
> For years, I have always wondered what making soap would be like and kind of wanted to try it. I think if I had known someone who could show me how it's done, I would have been hooked much sooner. Of course, at that point I would have started reading up on everything but it's always good if you can try it out first, just like you go tandem skydiving with an instructor before you buy a parachute.
> 
> ...



I agree, very much, and had she not sat with me a couple of times and watched me make soap, explaining what I was doing while I did it, I probably wouldn't have gotten aggravated by her comments. But she *is* the type who just wants to do the "fun" part and not ever do the learning part. Ergo my reaction of putting the reality of soap making in front of her, including showing her what can happen if you don't educate yourself on the dangers of lye heavy soap and lye accidents.


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## lenarenee (Oct 24, 2015)

There are people who have to know all the info before they start something, and those who
learn along the way. Simply put, we have different methods of approaching learning new skill.

All the research in the world did nothing to help me start making soap. Hearing, reading about how to do it were useless to me until I saw watched someone's process. Hazel, from SMF, shared a basic soap recipe with me, and I made my first batch.  With that cured bar in my hand, the questions started popping into my head, "what if....?"

Then, I hit the research again. This time it was meaningful because I had a physical frame of reference to work from.  When I wanted a fragranced soap - I studied fragrance, then practiced. When I wanted natural colors, I studied natural colors, then practiced. Then swirls, Etc.

It could be that withholding a demonstration showing a friend how to make soap isn't necessarily a helpful thing to do.  The motivation to do the work of research may crop up at the same time is does for you.

That's not to say there aren't plenty of people who do just want the easy way out!  The cure for that is simple - show them how to make soap, watch them run to the store with their paycheck to buy supplies, listen to them cuss and complain when their batch fails and they chuck it out the window.  They'll either totally give up (and gift you the supplies), or they will get serious and start learning.


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## Arimara (Oct 24, 2015)

Susie said:


> I completely understand what y'all are saying.  And I agree to some degree.
> 
> However, I have a couple of situations at work that beg a "soapmaking 101" type demonstration.
> 
> ...



Kimch, huh? A small sample would be a nice price for a lesson...  :twisted: Bless your heart.




The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Aye - at its simplest it is mixing fats and lyes. But it is actually so much more than that. There are so many things about soaping that only experience can teach, or that you don't know that you need to know it until it's too late



I agree. See the last quote.



gigisiguenza said:


> Apologies in advance for my lengthy post - this hit a hot button for me because of a recent conversation.
> 
> My friends usually go glassy eyed if they ask me about soaping and I start discussing it LOL. Most are not at all interested in making it, they just want to know when the next testers are coming their way, and when I'm gonna feel confident enough to sell (they wanna buy).
> 
> ...





gigisiguenza said:


> I agree, very much, and had she not sat with me a couple of times and watched me make soap, explaining what I was doing while I did it, I probably wouldn't have gotten aggravated by her comments. But she *is* the type who just wants to do the "fun" part and not ever do the learning part. Ergo my reaction of putting the reality of soap making in front of her, including showing her what can happen if you don't educate yourself on the dangers of lye heavy soap and lye accidents.



Um, that was your very first lesson and well taught. It's one thing to be knucklehead like me and put in minimal research, enough to prevent most of the dangers and some preventable problems when soaping. But it's another thing to just jump head long into it without ANY kind of knowledge about the science behind it. M&P would have been the better way to go for her and while they may not have been quite like your soap, your friend would be making soap to suit her whims and the fun could have taken off from there. I'd love to do a MP soap one day because my child would love it and I don't want her around lye solution until I can trust her to cut a carrot with one of my knives (that's not related to soaping, I know but the general theme is "can I trust you to know and understand the dangers of things and not to play around with them")


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## Arimara (Oct 24, 2015)

lenarenee said:


> There are people who have to know all the info before they start something, and those who
> learn along the way. Simply put, we have different methods of approaching learning new skill.
> 
> All the research in the world did nothing to help me start making soap. Hearing, reading about how to do it were useless to me until I saw watched someone's process. Hazel, from SMF, shared a basic soap recipe with me, and I made my first batch.  With that cured bar in my hand, the questions started popping into my head, "what if....?"
> ...



I agree 100%. I am learning and have learned soaping by just jumping into it. It's not enough for me to do months of research on something that has life-applicable skills; I have to learn as I'm going along. My brine bar fiasco is proof of that. I kept one batch but the other was a soft goopy, zap-happy mess and for reasons of space and time, I could not babysit it either.

I guess where I'm getting at is there are some people who do learn best as they see the process. Maybe  it's better to show anyone who seems interested what is done, answer any questions they may have to the best of your ability and then add that further research is needed if you cannot answer their questions yet. We are already more knowledgeable about making soap than a non-soaper is because most of us here have made at least one batch of soap. I already made 8 batches and I started in September. I plan to make more, branch off in to MP, make a liquid soap, and make a lotion, though not necessarily in that order. I think it might be worth showing someone the ropes and explaining why they need to do the leg work for themselves. Gigi's friend probably would have been worse off if Gigi herself had not explained things and answered her questions.

I hope I made sense.


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## Seawolfe (Oct 24, 2015)

There are lots of things that are simple in concept, yet require research and practice to do well: golf, beer and wine brewing, chess, making pie crusts, knitting, surfing, cheese making, canning...   I'm kind of surprised people think that soap making should be easy.

I had a friend who just needed to use up a lot of lard, and I turned him on to making soap. He's a bit of a homesteader and only makes soap for his family a couple of times a year. I gave him the basics, and the safety lecture and a recipe and he is good to go. BUT he does have a chemistry background, and is a researcher by nature, so he never made any assumptions about soap - except for the surprise about how much essential oil is needed for a batch of CP soap


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 24, 2015)

I think the differences in experiences have one thing in common - there is a big element of self-learning.  Be it theory first and then practice, or the other way around. 

What it isn't is just "show me all you know so I will know what you know and can do what you do" and each method certainly entails some form of theory learning and development which seems to be the thing that the friends in these examples don't want to do. 

I don't think that you can actually teach someone how to soap - you can help them to learn to soap, which might sound like a small difference but is actually huge.


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## gigisiguenza (Oct 24, 2015)

Arimara said:


> Kimch, huh? A small sample would be a nice price for a lesson...  :twisted: Bless your heart.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I suggested MP, it was my first thought, because it is easier and she would get the instant gratification she wanted. She rejected it, because it wasn't the kind of soap I make. She has zero interest in learning anything.



The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> I think the differences in experiences have one thing in common - there is a big element of self-learning.  Be it theory first and then practice, or the other way around.
> 
> What it isn't is just "show me all you know so I will know what you know and can do what you do" and each method certainly entails some form of theory learning and development which seems to be the thing that the friends in these examples don't want to do.
> 
> I don't think that you can actually teach someone how to soap - you can help them to learn to soap, which might sound like a small difference but is actually huge.



I agree 

Yanno, I so was excited about having a soaping buddy, and was eager to share what I'd learned. And I would have happily walked her through it and shared my supplies so she could enjoy this art as much as I do. But when I realized she wasn't interested in learning about making soap, she just wanted instant gratification, I was very disappointed in my friend. Because there are things you need to learn and understand, even if all you want to do is make soap for your family a couple times a year. And if you're not even interested in learning the very basics, like lye safety (when I mentioned PPE she rolled her eyes), then I'm not feeling inclined to teach you.


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## mandy318 (Oct 24, 2015)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> I think the differences in experiences have one thing in common - there is a big element of self-learning.  Be it theory first and then practice, or the other way around.
> 
> What it isn't is just "show me all you know so I will know what you know and can do what you do" and each method certainly entails some form of theory learning and development which seems to be the thing that the friends in these examples don't want to do.
> 
> I don't think that you can actually teach someone how to soap - you can help them to learn to soap, which might sound like a small difference but is actually huge.



This is what I was trying to say in the OP, but much more succinctly expressed. :clap:


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## cmzaha (Oct 24, 2015)

lenarenee said:


> There are people who have to know all the info before they start something, and those who
> learn along the way. Simply put, we have different methods of approaching learning new skill.
> 
> All the research in the world did nothing to help me start making soap. Hearing, reading about how to do it were useless to me until I saw watched someone's process. Hazel, from SMF, shared a basic soap recipe with me, and I made my first batch.  With that cured bar in my hand, the questions started popping into my head, "what if....?"
> ...


I am one that has to learn myself. I had one little book and started out with a lard soap. It probably took me much longer to master colors, I was not a member of any forums at the time, but I did finally master colors after a lot of ugly batches. As you say we all learn differently. Off topic but it is also the way I learned to build computers. My very first computer I had the case opened in 2 weeks to see what was inside, that was all it took for building computers to become a hobby.


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## penelopejane (Oct 24, 2015)

This is from the point of view of the "sponging friend". 

When I realised I really liked home made soap I asked my friend who makes it to give me a lesson. I would never have actually bought the equipment without knowing whether I could actually do it or not. 
She happily gave me a lesson. She didn't just show me, I made my own batch with her.  She enjoys having someone to discuss the process with I guess. I didn't know it was so easy to make basic soap. 

My research methods are very like Gigi's.  I have a folder with tons of info. 
Unfortunately, I am a bit of a perfectionist and I find it difficult to just go with the flow and make a recipe and see if it is any good.  I don't like the waste, I am not sure enough in my distillation of the research I have done and I guess I don't like the unknown result.  I don't have much confidence in being able to work out if something is "conditioning" or "lathery".  But I have now decided that all I have to work out is which bar I prefer over the other.

I can make Castile soap. No creativity, safe and sure recipe.  Great end product if you wait long enough. 

Other soap requires creativity, constant questioning of my choices of ingredients and then the worry that I will muck up the process. Rather than drive my friend mad, I drive you all mad! 
Having had you all help me towards a fairly acceptable recipe I am getting to the stage of being more confident of just giving it a go and then concentrating on the qualities I want in a finished bar and tweaking the recipe. 

So I am one of those people that needs a bit of help getting there.  I don't mean to come across as "stealing" your research but it gives me confidence to get started. So thank  you all.


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## gigisiguenza (Oct 24, 2015)

penelopejane said:


> This is from the point of view of the "sponging friend".
> 
> When I realised I really liked home made soap I asked my friend who makes it to give me a lesson. I would never have actually bought the equipment without knowing whether I could actually do it or not.
> She happily gave me a lesson. She didn't just show me, I made my own batch with her.  She enjoys having someone to discuss the process with I guess. I didn't know it was so easy to make basic soap.
> ...



Penelope I wish my friend had been more like you, because then I'd have a soaping buddy


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## BrewerGeorge (Oct 24, 2015)

I think you folks may be missing the difference between workman and craftsman / artisan. There are tons of people who want a simple, working recipe and have no desire to experiment or change it.   Like our great (great)  grandparents did. These are the workmen.   I'm not so sure it's really fair to hold them to artisan standards.


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## Susie (Oct 24, 2015)

penelopejane said:


> So I am one of those people that needs a bit of help getting there.  I don't mean to come across as "stealing" your research but it gives me confidence to get started. So thank  you all.



You can't steal what is given freely.  I enjoy sharing recipes and information with folks newer than me, because a very short time ago it was me asking questions and "stealing recipes".  

It is actually a rush when someone comes back to the forum saying they tried their soap, and it is awesome.  And to know I had some small part of helping them have that moment.


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## Arimara (Oct 24, 2015)

gigisiguenza said:


> I suggested MP, it was my first thought, because it is easier and she would get the instant gratification she wanted. She rejected it, because it wasn't the kind of soap I make. She has zero interest in learning anything.



Oh, I did read that. I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear. But I also have such admiration for the sheer creativity that goes into MP. I've lost touch with creativity save for thinking up recipes to try.



BrewerGeorge said:


> I think you folks may be missing the difference between workman and craftsman / artisan. There are tons of people who want a simple, working recipe and have no desire to experiment or change it.   Like our great (great)  grandparents did. These are the workmen.   I'm not so sure it's really fair to hold them to artisan standards.



I understand where you're coming from but speaking for myself, When it comes to CP, HP, CPOP soaps, I barely see the point of adding more than a tiny bit of  fragrance. I'm one who has little intentions of selling soaps, so looks doesn't matter as long and I like my batch. I think the deeper issue is that to a great degree, people need to do some leg work and research when it comes to soap making or any other crafts for that matter. There are many things that can come about without warning and they would need to know how to handle it whether it be What would happen if one runs out of olive oil and they need to tweak a recipe, or the dreaded "OMG, WHAT HAPPENED TO MY SOAP" scenario (ie, alien brains, glycerin rivers, lye spots).

Some people may genuinely want a working recipe, I understand it to the fullest but if they are not willing to even learn how to run that recipe through soapee.com to verify it's safety, especially in case one gives a wrong proportion in that said recipe, I think it would be for the greater good if they don't learn to make soap CP or whatever process soap.


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## penelopejane (Oct 24, 2015)

Susie said:


> You can't steal what is given freely.  I enjoy sharing recipes and information with folks newer than me, because a very short time ago it was me asking questions and "stealing recipes".
> 
> 
> 
> It is actually a rush when someone comes back to the forum saying they tried their soap, and it is awesome.  And to know I had some small part of helping them have that moment.




That's good to know!  I will definitely share my success stories.



BrewerGeorge said:


> I think you folks may be missing the difference between workman and craftsman / artisan. There are tons of people who want a simple, working recipe and have no desire to experiment or change it.   Like our great (great)  grandparents did. These are the workmen.   I'm not so sure it's really fair to hold them to artisan standards.




I agree. Some people only want pure 100% OO Castile no fragrance no additives.  They don't need to research lots of different things. They just want a recipe that works. People have been making it for 1000's of years. What would be the use of reinventing a recipe every time?


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## janzo (Oct 25, 2015)

While we are on the subject of stealing recipes Susie, I tried your lip balm one. It is wonderful, glides on to my lips but you don't feel like you are wearing balm, no sticky residue.  Thank you x


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## jules92207 (Oct 25, 2015)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> I think the differences in experiences have one thing in common - there is a big element of self-learning.  Be it theory first and then practice, or the other way around.
> 
> What it isn't is just "show me all you know so I will know what you know and can do what you do" and each method certainly entails some form of theory learning and development which seems to be the thing that the friends in these examples don't want to do.
> 
> I don't think that you can actually teach someone how to soap - you can help them to learn to soap, which might sound like a small difference but is actually huge.



I totally agree with this. I first learned how to soap by watching a friend. I went to her house, watched her hp a batch a few times, looked at her book and supplies, asked questions, then I took it and ran with it. Now she asks me for soap! 

She didn't teach me how to soap, but watching her made me want to learn how to soap.


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## Susie (Oct 25, 2015)

janzo said:


> While we are on the subject of stealing recipes Susie, I tried your lip balm one. It is wonderful, glides on to my lips but you don't feel like you are wearing balm, no sticky residue.  Thank you x



You are most welcome! Always glad to share!:smile:


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## penelopejane (Oct 25, 2015)

*&quot;I will PAY you to teach me!&quot;*



gigisiguenza said:


> Penelope I wish my friend had been more like you, because then I'd have a soaping buddy




Wouldn't it be sad not to have someone to tell about your soaping success or failure. That's why this forum is so great. I live in the middle of nowhere (pretty much) but can still discuss the process with like minded people.


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## mandy318 (Oct 25, 2015)

I'm going to get a little Zen for a moment. 

I would love to share with others the fascinating process of making soap. I do share often with people who may not care to hear my constant soapy chatter.  
But to really learn how to soap, I think you have to approach with certain amount of humbleness. Even for a simple uncomplicated bar, you have to be willing to entertain the things that could go wrong and learn how to prevent them before they happen. You have to grasp that some of the parts of the process cannot be changed, improved, sped up, or skipped--regardless of how simple or complicated the end bar is. 

I'm skeptical that someone who can't slow down a minute to read a blog, or to hop on this forum and exchange ideas and ask questions really wants to learn how to make soap, or if they really just want to _have_ homemade soap. I'm also not sure I want to feel responsible for showing someone how to handle lye, who I think doesn't have enough respect for the process.

There is one person who has asked if I would show her how to make soap and I don't feel the least hesitant about it, because she is interested in the making, in the process---not just the result.


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## brandnew (Oct 25, 2015)

I am coming from both sides.....I was introduced long distance by my best friend's big brother...the type that buys a book and has taught himself everything from fencing to pottery (and I still have some lovely pieces! ) lol He was mp-ing at the time....he is cp-ing it now! So through lotsa youtubing and accidentally finding smf  I decided I wanted to jump in the deep end and try cp. That was 3 yrs. ago.....last year a fellow parent asked me to show her how to make it for a school fair....now I said I would but she would be 100% responsible for it as it would be sold. Well she invited her daughter in law to 'learn'...and I use the term VERY LOOSELY as the two of them sat and chatted the whole time.  Needless to say the 2nd time round I wasn't so gullible......the problem with folks like that is , what has been mentioned before....they won't have the staying power when it gets frustrating. I think it would be great if someone were genuinely interested with whom I could share my interest... but instead I have made a wonderful acquaintance...long distance again lol ...on this site. And to know there are fellow soapers going through the same ups n downs with unpredictable soap...like today a new fragrance seized me soap like mad! :-?      THREE CHEERS FOR THE SMF!!! YEAH!!!


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## Dharlee (Oct 25, 2015)

mandy318 said:


> I don't feel the least hesitant about it, because she is interested in the making, in the process---not just the result.



And therein lies the difference.


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## songwind (Oct 28, 2015)

I haven't yet taught anyone to make soap, but my oldest does seem interested. She helped me make a batch of shaving soap the other week and had a lot of fun. So maybe I'll let me teach her over winter break or something.


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## amd (Oct 28, 2015)

I have been struggling with this question for several weeks. My company (meaning my regular engineering job unsoap related) has Brown Bag lunches - every few weeks someone comes in to speak about a topic during a lunch hour. The BB lunches are quite popular and have a good number of employees attend (usually in the 30-50% range). The lady who organizes them asked me to do one on soapmaking, and I've hemmed and hawed over giving her a yes or no. I don't think I could give enough good info about soapmaking in just one hour. If I decided to do it, how would I decide what's important and what isn't to fit into that hour? I can't commit to just showing up and making soap.

I learned from a friend of mine who lives some 1500 miles away. She doesn't sell, she just likes to make soap, she's single without kids, and even before I started making my own soap I was a soap hoarder, so I was an ideal candidate to send a bar or two to every 6-8 weeks. Anyways... she came for a whole week and we made soap every day. My friend also knew that at that time I had been researching essential oils, the chemicals in commercial skin care, and alternative skin care for two years - including reading a lot of "how to make soap" recipes, so I had a lot of ground work covered. (And yes, my friend still sends me soap even though I make my own now... cuz I'm a hoarder.)


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## dixiedragon (Oct 28, 2015)

I've had a couple of people want to make soap. Not as a hobby like we do it here, but as an activity they'd like to try. Even if you've only made a few batches, it's not that to do with an extra person or two. I print my recipe and have all of my equipment out and ready. I have a selection of 5 or so well-behaved FOs for them to choose from. I also have a selection of colors. The key is to control the process -- don't give them ALL the options, but a few choices. I mix the lye water ahead of time, and let them measure out the oils, etc.


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## dixiedragon (Oct 28, 2015)

amd said:


> I have been struggling with this question for several weeks. My company (meaning my regular engineering job unsoap related) has Brown Bag lunches - every few weeks someone comes in to speak about a topic during a lunch hour. The BB lunches are quite popular and have a good number of employees attend (usually in the 30-50% range). The lady who organizes them asked me to do one on soapmaking, and I've hemmed and hawed over giving her a yes or no. I don't think I could give enough good info about soapmaking in just one hour. If I decided to do it, how would I decide what's important and what isn't to fit into that hour? I can't commit to just showing up and making soap.


 
A lotion demo would be much more doable. Or if you really want to do a presentation on soap, maybe a PP slideshow with pictures, a handout with a basic recipe, and small sample bar to take home?


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## dixiedragon (Oct 28, 2015)

I actually don't see a problem with people being interested in the end product and not the process, assuming these people aren't planning to start a business selling or something. I compare it to Sips n Strokes. I have fun going to a sips-n-strokes session. All of the students painted the same picture. The teacher provided the colors  and all the tools and walked us through step-by-step. I didn't learn much at all about painting. I don't know anything about different types of brushes, paint, techniques, etc. But I had a fun evening and I like the picture I made. 

So if a person just wants to make soap under my direction, and maybe pick a color and a scent from a list of my recommendations, sure, sounds like a fun activity!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 28, 2015)

But then that is not teaching someone to make soap - it's making soap with them.  That is something else entirely.


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## dixiedragon (Oct 28, 2015)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> But then that is not teaching someone to make soap - it's making soap with them. That is something else entirely.


 
True. But I don't know if OP's friend has made that distinction? In OP's place, I'd try to clarify what the friend actually wants. Does she want to make soap one day, and pick her own color and scent? Or does she want to be able to make soap on her own, and just be provided with a reliable recipe and a list of tools? Or does she want to get really into the hobby but use the OP as her research assistant? Those are different things. I've had people tell me, "I'd love to learn to make soap" and what they mean is they want to make a batch of soap with me, and me tell them what we're doing and why. But they don't actually want to buy a scale, lye, oils and a mold and really get into it. They just want to do it once or twice.


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## gigisiguenza (Oct 28, 2015)

dixiedragon said:


> True. But I don't know if OP's friend has made that distinction? In OP's place, I'd try to clarify what the friend actually wants. Does she want to make soap one day, and pick her own color and scent? Or does she want to be able to make soap on her own, and just be provided with a reliable recipe and a list of tools? Or does she want to get really into the hobby but use the OP as her research assistant? Those are different things. I've had people tell me, "I'd love to learn to make soap" and what they mean is they want to make a batch of soap with me, and me tell them what we're doing and why. But they don't actually want to buy a scale, lye, oils and a mold and really get into it. They just want to do it once or twice.



Exactly my point. And there are a couple of friends who have been curious and just wanted to make soap with me. They don't really want to participate so much as see how it's done, to satisfy their curiosity, and that I enjoy and have no problem with. But someone who hints (without actually saying) they see this as a quick way to make cash (ie: make some batches, toss em on etsy, sell soap,.make cash) but has no real interest in learning the deep stuff, or doing research etc, now that person I have no interest in helping or instructing.


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## IrishLass (Oct 28, 2015)

gigisiguenza said:


> But someone who hints (without actually saying) they see this as a quick way to make cash (ie: make some batches, toss em on etsy, sell soap,.make cash) but has no real interest in learning the deep stuff, or doing research etc, now that person I have no interest in helping or instructing.


 
Ditto that ^^^^^. I've known a person or 2 with that kind of attitude, and I have absolutely no interest in encouraging them. To me, helping them out would be akin to unleashing a monster on the general public, and I want no part of that. 

I have no problem with showing friends or family members the process, though, as long as they have a genuine curiosity in how it's made. 

I've made soap with only 2 people before: my son, and also my nephew when he was 15. My nephew chose to make soap with me as a special project for his science class. That was a lot of fun. He told me later that he had no idea that so much chemistry went into a bar of soap and that there'd be so much to learn... and so many notes to take! lol He was so happy that he got to take the whole batch home with him in the end.

Other than them, my SIL is the only other one who has expressed any interest in making soap with me. I'll enjoy doing that a lot because she's a lot like me in that she genuinely loves making things from scratch. 


IrishLass


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## BrewerGeorge (Oct 28, 2015)

My oldest daughter's roommate wants to come over and "make" some shaving soap with me.  I suspect, though, that her part will be 90% drinking wine and watching.    She's bringing the ingredients, but considering that a pound of shaving soap will probably last her three or four years - and she already has the use of my body soap via my daughter - I think she's more curious than truly interested in learning how to do it. I don't have a problem with that.


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## gigisiguenza (Oct 28, 2015)

IrishLass said:


> Ditto that ^^^^^. I've known a person or 2 with that kind of attitude, and I have absolutely no interest in encouraging them. To me, helping them out would be akin to unleashing a monster on the general public, and I want no part of that.
> 
> I have no problem with showing friends or family members the process, though, as long as they have a genuine curiosity in how it's made.
> 
> ...


Oh that would be a fun science project for sure 


BrewerGeorge said:


> My oldest daughter's roommate wants to come over and "make" some shaving soap with me.  I suspect, though, that her part will be 90% drinking wine and watching.    She's bringing the ingredients, but considering that a pound of shaving soap will probably last her three or four years - and she already has the use of my body soap via my daughter - I think she's more curious than truly interested in learning how to do it. I don't have a problem with that.


LOL you described my two friends. Their helping me make soap was more like chatting with me, asking questions, and distracting me while I make soap hahahaha. Was fun though


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## cerelife (Oct 29, 2015)

I sell at a weekly market and often have people express interest in making their own soap. 
A few months ago I went back through my multiple notebooks of soaping notes and created a flyer that lists the books/youtube videos (and of course this forum) that are/were most helpful to me and I also include a little note about how different oils can bring different properties to your soap and list web addresses for a couple of soapcalcs so they can play around with them and 'get' what I mean. At the bottom of the page is my name and home # with the note that they can call me if they have any questions and I will do my best to answer them.
Some people are delighted and some just look at me like I handed them a grilled weasel on a bun.
Therein lies the difference in the mindset of someone who wants to learn and someone who wants to be spoon-fed easy answers.


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## shunt2011 (Oct 29, 2015)

I've had people approach me to see if I would teach them but I'm not willing to bring folks into my home.  If I had a workshop or a space to offer some classes I might consider it.  Plus there's the time factor.  Which I have so little of.  Between working full-time and running my own business it's plenty enough.


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## nsmar4211 (Oct 29, 2015)

Off thread but a "grilled weasel on a bun" made me laugh wayyyy too hard!


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## heidwil (Oct 30, 2015)

The way I lerned was from a book that showed pictures with the instructions every step of the way. Very simple ingredients and pictures of how it should look and what to expect. It made it easy but still very exciting. It gave further recipes to try and to add different ingredients. It made it easy for me to lern. 
And after that I checked on the internet and WOW so much information!! It would have been overwhelming for me to start with.


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## Spice (Oct 30, 2015)

I've said it's a lot like cooking. Let that sink in....then I turn around and leave. Sounds rude, but I believe if I say something that many dont like to do (weather m/f) then they will think about that and figure it out....maybe yes or maybe no.:neutral:


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## notapantsday (Oct 30, 2015)

I'd say it's more like baking.

When you're cooking, you can just browse through a recipe, try to understand the essence of it and then follow your gut. Don't like rosemary? Leave it out. Trying to eat healthier? Use less cream. A little more flavor? Use stock instead of water. In the end, if you roughly know what you're doing, you will still have a delicious meal even though you didn't really follow the recipe and failed to weigh out one single ingredient.

As many say, cooking is art - baking is science. And so is soap making, for the most part.


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## Arimara (Oct 31, 2015)

I don't know. Cooking can turn into a lesson in science, mostly physics with a few chemistry lessons. You have to know which oils have what flashpoint and why it's generally a good idea to use 1 part butter to 1 part EVOO if you must use EVOO on the stove. Even down to why it's nigh impossible to to mix cream or dairy in general with citrus fruit, or any acids really. Don't get me started on the evils of cooking on higher temps than medium if you don't need to.  Best way to ruin a good pot or pan faster.


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## dixiedragon (Oct 31, 2015)

Arimara said:


> I don't know. Cooking can turn into a lesson in science, mostly physics with a few chemistry lessons. You have to know which oils have what flashpoint and why it's generally a good idea to use 1 part butter to 1 part EVOO if you must use EVOO on the stove. Even down to why it's nigh impossible to to mix cream or dairy in general with citrus fruit, or any acids really. Don't get me started on the evils of cooking on higher temps than medium if you don't need to.  Best way to ruin a good pot or pan faster.



Right?! My parents' stove has 5 eyes (gas), 2 small eyes (simmer eyes), 2 medium eyes and 1 super eye. Dad uses the super eye for EVERYTHING and is shocked when it burns.


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## Misschief (Oct 31, 2015)

dixiedragon said:


> Dad uses the super eye for EVERYTHING and is shocked when it burns.



Sounds like my husband. He always used the large element for everything. I've tried explaining that it's more effective to use the element that the pan fits best on but the large one is the one that heats up fastest. We have an ancient electric range that has seen better days. Unfortunately, the landlord won't put in a new one until this one dies a slow and ugly death.


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## TBandCW (Oct 31, 2015)

I didn't set out to make soap, but my hubby thought it would add to the biz (he was so right, we sell a bunch of it).  I'm totally self taught thanks to these forums,  you tube, many disasters, etc.  I now have my adult son helping make it (whew) for the company.  When customers ask about how it's made I give them the short version.  Many are surprised when I tell them it takes 8 weeks to cure.


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## BWsoaps (Nov 1, 2015)

Just show them how to do it?

I'm sure they will respect you for doing so.

Or they can just do what I did and learn how to do it with a 6 min You tube video, it's easy!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 2, 2015)

BWsoaps said:


> Just show them how to do it?
> 
> I'm sure they will respect you for doing so.
> 
> Or they can just do what I did and learn how to do it with a 6 min You tube video, it's easy!




I think that's the difference - making soap is cooking, following a recipe. Soaping is more like being a chef, knowing why stuff happens and what will or won't work, trying stuff out and breaking borders. 

You can do the former in 6 minutes with YouTube, but when it comes down to problem solving, you're flicking through the recipe book and finding no answers. 

That is the crux of the point - showing someone how soap is made is one thing, 'teaching' them 'to soap' is something else entirely.


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## commoncenz (Nov 2, 2015)

Funny you should put it that way TEG ... I've been back at making soap for about 9 months now. After previously making soap for 2 years and taking a ten year break. This time around I feel as if I'm doing "more" than the first time around. More reading, more discussing, testing more boundaries ... and therefore, knowing "MORE" about what is working with my soap and how to fix what goes wrong. I also find myself talking "soap" with people a lot more than before ... quite possibly because I know more about what I'm discussing.

So yes, I agree. There is making soap; like making cake from a boxed mix or following grandma's recipe. There is also SOAPING; knowing the different properties of your ingredients, spending time to understand the process and having the desire to test your and your recipes' limits.


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## Susie (Nov 2, 2015)

I have the kind of mind that has to know "why" before I can grasp a rule or a concept.  I was never content with being told to "do this, then this, then that, and done".  

It would only take me half an hour to give a quick demo of putting together previously masterbatched ingredients.  If that.  

However, in order to "teach" someone to soap, they need to show that they are interested enough to access the information I gave them links to.  Including this forum and two different YouTube channels.  Once I have established who, if any, are sufficiently interested, then I will happily invest more time and effort into sharing info.  I would LOVE to have another human being to talk soaping with.


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## commoncenz (Nov 2, 2015)

I like to read about it, do it, process what I've done and read some more. Now, I've spent the last 9 months developing some "go to recipes" by getting a basic understanding of oil properties and deciding what oils I'd like to work with, which ones I'd like to stay away from, which ones I can afford (important) and which of the ones I can afford can reasonably substitute for some of the more expensive "Ooooh your soap has THAT" oils. 

I'm now thinking of buying Dr. Dunn's book "Scientific Soapmaking" to see what I can glean from it. For light reading I've ordered Anne-Marie Faiola's "Soap Crafting: Step-by-Step Techniques for Making 31 Unique Cold-Process Soaps". I'm not particularly interested in her recipes as I like the process of developing my own. However, I'm very curious as to what techniques she discusses. 

That said, I don't think it's fair to expect someone who has just shown an interest in learning to make soap to have the same "soaping" desire that TEG so perfectly described. But, as others have said, I would expect them to be ready to do some actual research/learning before starting to soap. When my son and daughter made soap with me, they had already heard the sermon about the dangers of lye, the need for proper protective gear, etc. They also already had more than a basic understanding of the process of making soap because of my endless ramblings on the subject .. lol


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## lenarenee (Nov 2, 2015)

The education of  good soaping "chef" does not need to start by memorizing all of the
facts before participating in an actual  soaping process. We all learn in different ways. Many
people will learn better by experiencing the process first because this provides a platform to build from; an observation  from which questions can begin to form. Some people need the visual first.


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## JayJay (Nov 2, 2015)

I too, would love to have a soaping companion.  I feel ambivalent about teaching others how to make soap because it IS such a powerful skill that deserves to be approached with respect.  I feel like I could be unleashing an ill equipped person onto the public.  To harp on Etsy for just a bit longer, there are so many people selling soap on there that it is almost scary.  I know that there are many legit soap makers, but there may be just as many people on there who don't know DOS from a hole in the wall. 

 I did teach someone how to make a batch of soap before. Immediately afterward, I thought, "oh no, what if this person turns around and sells before she understands this process".  I gave her all the warnings that I thought were appropriate, but I also know how excited one can be when one first discovers soaping.   She is an adult and can ultimately decide what she wants to do. Still, I would feel guilty if someone got their skin burned (or even irritated) because I sent a half cocked soaper into the world. ... Which is exactly what I did.  

So, how do we know when a person is serious enough and respectful enough to learn about soaping? Part of me thinks that a serious person would take the time to learn on their own.  If they were serious,  why wouldn't they have picked tup this hobby before they discovered that I could show them how to do it.  I mean, why can't they learn like I did?  

Then I had to realize-- *I am not a soaping pioneer*!  I didn't invest in lab equipment and spend years experimenting.  I have made zero discoveries.  I sat in front of a computer and googled until I found some stuff that other people were willing to share.  I tried some "recipes" that I found on some blogs.  And like TEG said, I had no idea how to troubleshoot the issues that were present.  It wasn't until I found this forum that I started to really understand soap making.  If you all had been selfish with your knowledge, I might be a half cocked soaper out there giving my third batch of soap to my co-worker's baby with eczema.  You all gave me knowledge.  Who am I to act like I have some exclusive rights to soaping.

Still, I feel strange about teaching someone who just wants something to post on instagram.  Ambivalence. 

I like the previously posted idea about giving people printed resources that they can use to do their own legwork.  If they are really serious, they will take the time to at least do a little reading.


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## lenarenee (Nov 2, 2015)

amd said:


> I have been struggling with this question for several weeks. My company (meaning my regular engineering job unsoap related) has Brown Bag lunches - every few weeks someone comes in to speak about a topic during a lunch hour. The BB lunches are quite popular and have a good number of employees attend (usually in the 30-50% range). The lady who organizes them asked me to do one on soapmaking, and I've hemmed and hawed over giving her a yes or no. I don't think I could give enough good info about soapmaking in just one hour. If I decided to do it, how would I decide what's important and what isn't to fit into that hour? I can't commit to just showing up and making soap.
> 
> You absolutely can give enough good info in an hour- depending on your goal.  Can anyone make a master soaper in an hour? No. Can you educate enough to possibly get others interested? Sure.
> 
> Are you interested in sharing your hobby with your co-workers? Then do the BB lunch. You don't  even need to do a demonstration. You could show a Soaping 101 video, and share why you love soaping and give resource info on how to start learning safely. ( maybe have two BBs, having the demonstration second.)


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## doriettefarm (Nov 2, 2015)

I can so relate to this because I love to talk soap but feel like most of my friends and co-workers just don't get it.  I do have one friend that likes to bake as much as I do . . . she's the only one who ever expressed any serious interest in learning how to soap.  After watching me make a few batches and seeing how similar the process is to baking (weight vs volume measurements, consistency of dough/batter, temps are important esp when working with yeast) she was off and running with the resources I provided (youtube videos, soapcalc and SMF).  She's been soaping on her own for well over a year now so I think it's safe to say she's hooked.   

I guess if I was approached to give a BB lunch on soaping I would try to keep things intro-level but interesting.  I like the idea of a PowerPoint presentation basically a 'show and tell' of your soapmaking journey.  You could include a short video of the process (maybe examples of M&P vs CP vs HP).  Explain the basic chemistry behind making soap, necessary ingredients, precautions handling lye, etc.  

I would also use the opportunity to show off some of my soap and I'm talking batches that I'm super-proud of and the spectacular fails.  I learned from both and think that's worth sharing.  Plus it might make some folks reconsider the idea of 'I can make soap and open an Etsy shop after my 2nd successful batch!'.  I guess I'm a soap-nerd and want to share that with others but I also want/expect them to be as nerdy as I am about it.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 3, 2015)

lenarenee said:


> The education of  good soaping "chef" does not need to start by memorizing all of the
> facts before participating in an actual  soaping process. We all learn in different ways. Many
> people will learn better by experiencing the process first because this provides a platform to build from; an observation  from which questions can begin to form. Some people need the visual first.




Exactly! Which brings us to the goal of the person asking the question. Do they want you to teach them it all or just give them a visual start on their journey? If the former, they have wildly unrealistic expectations. 

You cannot teach someone to become a chef by having them come and cook with you for an hour or so, but you can teach them how to make a certain dish. 

You can't teach someone 'soaping' in an afternoon, but you can teach them how to make a soap.


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## amd (Nov 3, 2015)

Good point about the distinction between soaping and just making soap! But I'm still overwhelmed with just the basic info. Its not like subbing oregano for basil. There's a lot of basic info to put into people's heads in just an hour. Still thinking about it and my personal comfort level.


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## lenarenee (Nov 3, 2015)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Exactly! Which brings us to the goal of the person asking the question. Do they want you to teach them it all or just give them a visual start on their journey? If the former, they have wildly unrealistic expectations.
> 
> You cannot teach someone to become a chef by having them come and cook with you for an hour or so, but you can teach them how to make a certain dish.
> 
> You can't teach someone 'soaping' in an afternoon, but you can teach them how to make a soap.


 
Yup, and for those people with the "wildly unrealistic expectations" - hopefully after viewing a soap making demonstration complete with all the geeky looking but necessary safety gear - a little respect will form!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 3, 2015)

Not to mention the final "and now you get to clean up the greasy pots and utensils...................welcome to soap making!"


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## Arimara (Nov 4, 2015)

But cleaning up is part of the fun and is most important.


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## Margo (Nov 17, 2015)

Yes, I've had a few requests, however, I've been making soap for 20 years and I'm not about to give all my trade secrets to anyone OR share my recipes either!
What I tell people who ask me to teach them how to make soap is that the fee is $1200.00 for a 3-day course and that stops them in their tracks

Happy soaper,

Margo


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## Misschief (Nov 17, 2015)

And what would $1200 get me? I truly am interested in knowing what one might get for $1200 if you're not willing to share any trade secrets or recipes? 

To be honest, and please don't take this the wrong way, if you were to say something like that to me, I'd think you were arrogant and it would put me off soap making, even if I was interested (if I didn't know where or how to find information online). I'd certainly never talk to you or buy your products again.

If a person were truly interested and didn't know where to start, an afternoon spent being shown the basics (safety concerns, ingredients required, and a basic recipe with proper technique) would be immense, a starting off point. Honestly, I think that those of us who have knowledge, whether it's soap making, sewing, knitting, cooking, baking... it doesn't matter what, have a responsibility to those around us to share our knowledge, especially with those who are truly interested in learning. We don't have to teach them everything we know (that would take more than $1200 and a three day course because it's taken us more than $1200 and three days to gain that knowledge) but we can show them, inspire them, get them interested in learning more. It will very quickly become evident who is truly interested and who isn't.

I'm a knitter; I've been knitting since I was seven years old. I've worked in a yarn shop and taught people to knit. Of the hundreds of people who took knitting classes through that shop, only a handful have gone on to become knitters. There were some who only signed up for classes because they thought it was something easy to learn, that they could use to make Christmas gifts for their friends or sell at an upcoming market. When they learned what was involved and that it takes a lot of practice and time to become good enough to sell their products, they gave up. Do you really think it would be any different with any other skill?


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## dixiedragon (Nov 17, 2015)

BTW, the John Campbell Folk School in North Carolina offers soapmaking classes. The offer both weekend classes (Friday evening to Sunday afternoon) and week-long classes (Sunday afternoon to Friday afternoon).

This weekend:
Raw Milk, Herbal Tea & Wine...to Soap and More! 
Date: Friday, Nov 20 - Sunday, Nov 22, 2015
 Subject: Soap Making 
Instructor: Pam Custer Share: 

 

Have fun crafting your own all-natural bath and body-care products, personalized with a variety of essential oils and natural additives. Learn the techniques necessary to produce luxurious, skin-nourishing soaps with farm-fresh raw milk, then experiment with other liquid bases such as herbal tea and even wine! Also, prepare to be amazed by the array of other handmade toiletries you can create - oral-care products, body sprays and butters, a facial kit, and more. Beginners welcome.

Prior to registering, please read our General Information and Policies.

Tuition: $334.00
My mom and aunt are there this week. Mom is taking a wood-turning class and my aunt is taking a chair-caning class. I took a weekend broom making class and it was a BLAST! It's camp for grown-ups.
The place is gorgeous - every toilet paper holder is a work of art. There is beautiful ironwork and wood work all over the place. You can choose to stay on campus and eat in the dining hall, or you can choose to stay at a nearby hotel (which is cheaper but not as fun).


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## lsg (Nov 17, 2015)

Here is an online school for a lot less than 1K.  I learned how to make cream soap using stearic acid and left  over cp soap pieces.  That, to me made the cost worthwhile.

http://www.soapmakingschool.com/


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## Arimara (Nov 17, 2015)

dixiedragon said:


> BTW, the John Campbell Folk School in North Carolina offers soapmaking classes. The offer both weekend classes (Friday evening to Sunday afternoon) and week-long classes (Sunday afternoon to Friday afternoon).
> 
> This weekend:
> Raw Milk, Herbal Tea & Wine...to Soap and More!
> ...



I must be the only one cringing at using wine for soaping... maybe the wine I don't like could be used but that takes actually finding one I don't like. :mrgreen:


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## dixiedragon (Nov 17, 2015)

Use the $3 from Aldi. Or wine that's gone off.


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## Margo (Nov 18, 2015)

I really don't care what your opinion is about my method of dealing with people who have absolute no concern about the labor and research that went into my formulations and who just want something for free.

I will not be exploited


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## Misschief (Nov 18, 2015)

Margo said:


> I really don't care what your opinion is about my method of dealing with people who have absolute no concern about the labor and research that went into my formulations and who just want something for free.
> 
> I will not be exploited



I'm still curious about what $1200 and three days would buy me. And what of those who would seriously like a push in the right direction but don't know where or how to get started? Who just need to be shown the basics? Who aren't interested in your "trade secrets" or proprietary recipes, just in how to get started down that same road?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 18, 2015)

Margo said:


> I really don't care what your opinion is about my method of dealing with people who have absolute no concern about the labor and research that went into my formulations and who just want something for free.
> 
> I will not be exploited




Oddly enough, that's one big reason for people coming here - some just want to take with no effort at all, some take with some work at understanding it all but most members give and take openly.


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## shunt2011 (Nov 18, 2015)

I agree with TEG.  The forum is for sharing and helping others.   I find those that just pop in once in a blue moon with cocky, arrogant, non-helpful responses really need to just stay away as they bring nothing positive to the forum. 

  I feel those are the folks that really have nothing much to offer.  

It's sad that many just come here for their own agenda and then disappear into the smoke until it suits them to come back.  I see folks just come here to get answers and not provide anything positive to the forum more than I would like to.  

Fortunately there are way more folks that are kind and helpful and share their vast amount of knowledge.  And I personally think this is one of the best ones out there.


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## gigisiguenza (Nov 18, 2015)

Yep I agree with you both. This place is about educating, sharing, and fostering a sense of artisan community. Even us noobs do our best to offer up what we can to others. 

This is not the place for drive by pontificating - if you're not interested in investing in the community as a whole through sharing experience and knowledge, then why be here at all?


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## cmzaha (Nov 18, 2015)

Margo said:


> I really don't care what your opinion is about my method of dealing with people who have absolute no concern about the labor and research that went into my formulations and who just want something for free.
> 
> I will not be exploited


Helping someone learn the basics of making is not exploitation. All of us in here have our much loved formulas/recipes but most of us could duplicate any soap if we have a bar and a proper ingredient list, less the fragrance. It is much kinder to just say, sorry I do not have time to teach, or some other gracious way to bow out. I have a customer that was so excited to tell me he learned to make soap one day from a friend. I started selling to him when he was at City of Hope with his terminal son. He needed a distraction and his friend provided it, and I also sent him a few recipes, including the one he likes so well.  BTW 2 yrs later he still piddles with soap and still purchases mine. At the end of the day Soap is Soap and yours is no more special than anyone else can make. Some people just want something for free, but many just want some help



shunt2011 said:


> I agree with TEG.  The forum is for sharing and helping others.   I find those that just pop in once in a blue moon with cocky, arrogant, non-helpful responses really need to just stay away as they bring nothing positive to the forum.
> 
> I feel those are the folks that really have nothing much to offer.
> 
> ...


YEP!


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## notapantsday (Nov 18, 2015)

That download button is suspiciously large...:think:


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## Relle (Nov 18, 2015)

shunt2011 said:


> I agree with TEG.  The forum is for sharing and helping others.   I find those that just pop in once in a blue moon with cocky, arrogant, non-helpful responses really need to just stay away as they bring nothing positive to the forum.
> 
> I feel those are the folks that really have nothing much to offer.
> 
> ...



I also agree with the above, there is no need to be aggressive in your answer, seeing you have been a member for 4 yrs, only posted twice in 2011, 10 posts in 13,14 and the last 6 in the last few days, I don't consider that contributing to the forum whatsoever.


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## lenarenee (Nov 18, 2015)

cmzaha said:


> Helping someone learn the basics of making is not exploitation. All of us in here have our much loved formulas/recipes but most of us could duplicate any soap if we have a bar and a proper ingredient list, less the fragrance. It is much kinder to just say, sorry I do not have time to teach, or some other gracious way to bow out. I have a customer that was so excited to tell me he learned to make soap one day from a friend. I started selling to him when he was at City of Hope with his terminal son. He needed a distraction and his friend provided it, and I also sent him a few recipes, including the one he likes so well. BTW 2 yrs later he still piddles with soap and still purchases mine. At the end of the day Soap is Soap and yours is no more special than anyone else can make. Some people just want something for free, but many just want some help


 

In regards to the idea that our recipes are magically unique and no on could duplicate them -I wholly heartedly agree that they aren't. It's one thing to not want to share, it's another to believe someone else already hasn't done it, or couldn't duplicate it with an ingredient list - and probably to about 90% accuracy if not more. I've never been brave enough to share that opinion because there are so many here who guard their recipes ( though most seem to more out of "paternal" pride more than fear of exploitation)

And if anyone ever needs an idea for a challenge/swap...:think:


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## leilaninoel (Nov 19, 2015)

I find this an interesting topic, and have an applicable situation.

A friend of the family wants me to host a "soap making party" for her and some of her neighbors. She knows I'm not a master soaper, but I figured I could share some basics and walk them through the safety stuff, the steps, and making their first batch of soap. This friend brought up the subject of payment.

I have also been looking for fundraising options for First Descents - it's an amazing organization that provides outdoor adventures like kayaking, rock-climbing, surfing, etc, to young adults dealing with cancer. 

So... Since both I and my friend know I'm not a master soaper, and I would just be showing them the basics, do you guys think it should be kosher to have a suggested donation toward First Descents for those who participate, especially since I'll be supplying materials? 

Or since I'm still fairly "new" to soaping (first batch being ~10 years ago), would it still be a little too questionable for people to "pay" to have me walk them through a batch?

My gut says it would be ok - like if I were charging a material fee. And since it would be "suggested donation" of like $10-$20 (and this would not be considered a lot of money for these potential participants), and I wouldn't be making any profit from the situation.
But perhaps you folks with more experience and wisdom would feel differently?


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## Misschief (Nov 19, 2015)

leilaninoel said:


> I find this an interesting topic, and have an applicable situation.
> 
> A friend of the family wants me to host a "soap making party" for her and some of her neighbors. She knows I'm not a master soaper, but I figured I could share some basics and walk them through the safety stuff, the steps, and making their first batch of soap. This friend brought up the subject of payment.



The thing I'd want to know ahead of time is.. would all the attendees be expecting to make soap for themselves at the party? If it's a soap making party, I'd expect to come home with a small batch. Or is it a soap making demo?

They're two very different things.


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## leilaninoel (Nov 19, 2015)

Hi Misschief,

I haven't committed to anything yet, so I haven't hammered out the details yet with said friend. 
I was also thinking of picking up some melt-and-pour (and confirming I know how to use it first) to let them play with making pretties, in case that's their goal. 
But otherwise, I don't have anything planned at this stage. I am, of course, always open to suggestions!


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## dixiedragon (Nov 19, 2015)

Personally, I'm not a fan of the "suggested donation". I'd just flat out say there's a fee of (for example) $20, and 50% of that fee goes to First Descents. And tell people what they get for their fee. I'd get some of those clamshell molds so people can take home a bar of the soap they made, or if you aren't comfortable with that, do a soap making demo and also a lip balm or lotion demo and let them take that home. Perhaps you could figure out what it would cost to mail out a bar of soap to each person (I think last time I mailed somebody a bar of soap it was about $1.50 postage) and include that cost in your fee. So you could mail the soap when it was ready to be used.

I'm actually thinking of hosting that type of activity to raise money for a dog rescue organization I'm involved with.


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## Susie (Nov 20, 2015)

The beauty of this forum is that people who _*want*_ to share and help are able to do so in a place that allows newbies to get many different opinions. 

If people choose not to share, that is their right.  If they want to charge $1200 for a weekend class, that is their right.  It is completely up to the individual.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 20, 2015)

*&quot;I will PAY you to teach me!&quot;*

Another important aspect of this forum is that people can say their opinions, whether the person in question is interested in it or not. Hearing what you don't want to hear is not something that can be complained about - this isn't a tumblr safe space. Attacking people for giving their opinions, however, is not on. 

Reel it in, lads and lasses, or people will end up on the naughty step

Craig. Chairman of the board


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## dixiedragon (Nov 20, 2015)

Margo said:


> lenarenee: As I stated previously, I am not interested in your opinion or YOUR OWN interpretation of the definition of exploitation and your narcissistic, oh so lengthly, description of how wonderfully generous you are
> 
> I simply stated how I handle inconsiderate people who want to learn from me for free and you turned it into something personal, ranting on and on describing my price as "arrogant". A price has no feeling attached to it. It is what it is; take it or leave it.
> 
> ...


 

Well....bless your heart.


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## traderbren (Nov 20, 2015)

Does the naughty step have cookies? And will the recipe for said cookies be shared?

I am one of those that loves to share hobbies. If a friend asked to learn to make soap, I'd invite them over for a demo and send them home with information. Friends want to knit? I'll let them try their hand at it, and send them home with cheap needles and cotton for a dishcloth. Want to spin fiber? I'll loan you a drop spindle and push some easy drafting fiber at you. Is my opinion the only one? No, but it's how I prefer to roll.


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## kumudini (Nov 20, 2015)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Craig. Chairman of the board



Thanks for the first laugh of my day.


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## lsg (Nov 20, 2015)

I would gladly show a really good friend or relative how to make soap.  However, due to the caustic nature of lye, I would be very hesitant to teach just anyone.


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## Arimara (Nov 20, 2015)

traderbren said:


> Does the naughty step have cookies? And will the recipe for said cookies be shared?
> 
> I am one of those that loves to share hobbies. If a friend asked to learn to make soap, I'd invite them over for a demo and send them home with information. Friends want to knit? I'll let them try their hand at it, and send them home with cheap needles and cotton for a dishcloth. Want to spin fiber? I'll loan you a drop spindle and push some easy drafting fiber at you. Is my opinion the only one? No, but it's how I prefer to roll.



I would have to go to an app and look for my chocolate chip cookie recipe. it's basic and does not utilize instant pudding (nothing against instant pudding).


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## doriettefarm (Nov 20, 2015)

Well isn't that special (said in my SNL Church Lady voice)! Guess I need to get busy collecting rainwater to purify for some high-end hot process soap.


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## dixiedragon (Nov 20, 2015)

lsg said:


> I would gladly show a really good friend or relative how to make soap. However, due to the caustic nature of lye, I would be very hesitant to teach just anyone.


 
I agree. I thought that if I told an adult, "This stuff will give you a severe chemical burn, so don't touch it!" They would listen. Then I was making soap with a friend, a bit of lye spilled, and as I'm heading towards it with a paper towel to clean it up, she uses her fingernail to scoop it up! She had lye crystals UNDER HER FINGERNAIL. I made her hold her hand under the faucet for a good 5 minutes.


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## IrishLass (Nov 20, 2015)

lsg said:


> I would gladly show a really good friend or relative how to make soap. However, due to the caustic nature of lye, I would be very hesitant to teach just anyone.


 

I am the same way.....I'm very glad to show others how it's done, but only those that I know can be trusted to respect the lye.  


IrishLass


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## Arimara (Nov 20, 2015)

dixiedragon said:


> I agree. I thought that if I told an adult, "This stuff will give you a severe chemical burn, so don't touch it!" They would listen. Then I was making soap with a friend, a bit of lye spilled, and as I'm heading towards it with a paper towel to clean it up, she uses her fingernail to scoop it up! She had lye crystals UNDER HER FINGERNAIL. I made her hold her hand under the faucet for a good 5 minutes.



I trust she learned her lesson?


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## dixiedragon (Nov 20, 2015)

Arimara said:


> I trust she learned her lesson?


 
Not really, because I got her hand under the water before she got burned. But I never invited her to soap with me again!


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## gigisiguenza (Nov 20, 2015)

lsg said:


> I would gladly show a really good friend or relative how to make soap.  However, due to the caustic nature of lye, I would be very hesitant to teach just anyone.



Exactly. I would happily share and help someone else learn if they're really interested in learning. But I've got no interest in going through the time and trouble to show someone who is just looking for a shortcut to understand just enough to be able to crank out soap to sell. There's way to many things that a responsible seller needs to truly understand and those cannot be taught in a couple of short soaping sessions.

If any of my friends was truly interested in learning, I would be thrilled to have a local soaping buddy. Unfortunately the few who have expressed interest were people who were just seeing dollar signs because they see a quick way to make a buck. 

Now, to be fair, it can indeed be a quick way to make a buck. A quick trip to get supplies. An hour of time. A simple recipe, simple swirls, toss in some FO, and you've got soap. Let it sit until it's hard enough to handle without squishing, cut it, package, and sell. Yep, anyone can make soap and sell it.

But.... does that mean they *should* be selling soap? Absolutely not. Just because they know how to manufacture bars of soap doesn't mean they have a true understanding of what the heck they're doing, how it can impact the user, and what can go wrong with the soap down the road.

A responsible soap maker is an *artisan who crafts* soap - not a *manufacturer who makes soap*.

I'll happily share my time and knowledge (what I've accumulated anyway) with anyone interested in learning to craft soap. I have no interest in sharing my time or knowledge with someone only interested in manufacturing soap.


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## Arimara (Nov 20, 2015)

dixiedragon said:


> Not really, because I got her hand under the water before she got burned. But I never invited her to soap with me again!



That's a shame. If she has ever had or known some one who gets their hair done with a hair relaxer, she would know to respect the lye.


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## amd (Nov 20, 2015)

lenarenee said:


> In regards to the idea that our recipes are magically unique and no on could duplicate them -I wholly heartedly agree. It's one thing to not want to share, it's another to believe someone else already hasn't done it, or couldn't duplicate it with an ingredient list - and probably to about 90% accuracy if not more. I've never been brave enough to share that opinion because there are so many here who guard their recipes ( though most seem to more out of "paternal" pride more than fear of exploitation)
> 
> And if anyone ever needs an idea for a challenge/swap...:think:


 
I'm not sure I agree with "magically unique". When I create a recipe I run it through the Google Machine. I almost always find my recipe done somewhere else. If it's a blog/article I can read the comments, dig further into that individuals blog (if that's the case) to see if there's any follow up on how the soap performed after making. I have found a few responsible soapers who leave comments either on their own posts or with follow-up posts who say "this happened to my soap, so I've changed my recipe". Anyways, my point is... if you think your recipe is one of a kind, it might not be. Unless you have a patent on that thing, it's not yours.

I love people who share their things - like Shari. She shares her salt bar recipe that she sells in her store. I bought one of her salt bars (LOVE!) and tried making a few batches with her recipe, but salt bars aren't my thing. It's too much babysitting. I know how they're made, but I am perfectly happy to buy my salt bars from her. I think this is how a lot of people approach soapmaking - they want to know how, they might even attempt it once after they know how, but very few are going to become regulars.

This realization made me decide to do the brown bag lunch at work (not until after the new year though) as a demonstration on how to make soap and not a class. Thanks to the discussion here, I am going to put together some handouts for anyone who wants to take it further (where to get local supplies for a grocery store soap, where to get supplies online, and where to go for more [good] information... maybe even a "soap myths debunked" handout).


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## dixiedragon (Nov 21, 2015)

I don't have a problem with people not wanting to share a recipe, whether we're talking soap or food. I don't have a problem with somebody thinking their recipe is special and unique. But I don't think it's rude to request a recipe, and I DO have a problem when people respond rudely to a simple request. It's just as easy to say, "There are a lot of great recipes on Brambleberry's site. They're a great vendor." Or "Check out Soap Making Forum. Lots of info there!" You can still be polite and helpful while also keeping your special recipe secret.


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## Spice (Nov 23, 2015)

shunt2011 said:


> I agree with TEG.  The forum is for sharing and helping others.   I find those that just pop in once in a blue moon with cocky, arrogant, non-helpful responses really need to just stay away as they bring nothing positive to the forum.
> 
> I feel those are the folks that really have nothing much to offer.
> 
> ...


I sometimes feel very stupid when I read of the way some members talk about ratios, master batching, pencil lines, and all the issues that goes on with soap.  I have seen beautiful soaps and just dream that one day I can be that great. I am barely learning what to do, and rarely can give good answers. My thanks to shunt and all those that who read my questions and gives me answers. Happy Thanksgiving.:wave:


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## Arimara (Nov 23, 2015)

Spice said:


> I sometimes feel very stupid when I read of the way some members talk about ratios, master batching, pencil lines, and all the issues that goes on with soap.  I have seen beautiful soaps and just dream that one day I can be that great. I am barely learning what to do, and rarely can give good answers. My thanks to shunt and all those that who read my questions and gives me answers. Happy Thanksgiving.:wave:



You shouldn't feel stupid at all. As long as you have input on something that can possibly be of use, why not share it. Even if you're asking questions, many a times, someone else may not have thought to ask.


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## gigisiguenza (Nov 23, 2015)

^^^^ what they said 

Never feel stupid. Always ask if you're curious. And always offer what you have to contribute. This place seems to have been built on the open minded thinker model, so there's room for all trains of thought


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## lenarenee (Nov 24, 2015)

Okay, I've changed my mind. After spending about 10 hours over 2 days teaching someone to soap - with my ingredients and my recipe and my molds and my cutter and my curing space....she had the nerve to tell me that she makes prettier soap than I do, and  taking credit for my recipe and promising others she'll teach them to soap....with MY recipe. Also found out she's been giving out the soap I gave her to her relative and friends and taking credit for it. 

Today she tells me she wants MY personal favorite recipe!!  (Oh, she just might get it too....:evil
And...she told me she bought her own supplies and wants to come over and make soap together.  Uh...no. Twelve different kinds of no. I'm behind in my own soaping due to teaching her!

Well. Since she didn't want to learn to use a soap calculator, and since I "don't have time" to soap with her....she's on her own. She's spent a boatload of money on tons of  stuff (except her own lye!), so she can now use it. Without me.  Oh...and she wants to use my cardstock to wrap her soap with too.  (almost let her...due to the fact that her soaps have a lot of curing left to do....and a lot of shrinking!! But I didn't, cause then her soaps were going to look just like mine ....and she'll take credit for all of it!


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## Misschief (Nov 24, 2015)

Ouch... that's nerve


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## gigisiguenza (Nov 24, 2015)

lenarenee said:


> Okay, I've changed my mind. After spending about 10 hours over 2 days teaching someone to soap - with my ingredients and my recipe and my molds and my cutter and my curing space....she had the nerve to tell me that she makes prettier soap than I do, and  taking credit for my recipe and promising others she'll teach them to soap....with MY recipe. Also found out she's been giving out the soap I gave her to her relative and friends and taking credit for it.
> 
> Today she tells me she wants MY personal favorite recipe!!  (Oh, she just might get it too....:evil
> And...she told me she bought her own supplies and wants to come over and make soap together.  Uh...no. Twelve different kinds of no. I'm behind in my own soaping due to teaching her!
> ...



This precisely the kind of people who have been asking me to teach them and exactly why I say no. It's not that I don't want to share. I would adore having a local soaping friend to soap with and enjoy this skill with. But I'm not going to waste my time on someone who neither respects the craft itself or really wants to learn it. 

I'm sorry she did that to you Lena.


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## dixiedragon (Nov 24, 2015)

@ Lenaree - wow! What a jerk! (I would like to use stronger language, but not sure if that's okay here.) What a user. That would have me seriously re-evaluating my relationship with that person.

I've made soap with several friends and acquaintances and never had that happen! They were not interested in learning enough to make it by themselves, they just wanted to hang out, pick a color and a scent, and learn about it. They were delightful and one slipped me $40 as she left as a "thank you". (which I tried to give back, but she wouldn't take it!)


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## penelopejane (Nov 24, 2015)

Maybe you should teach people to soap with a generic recipe like: 30% CO, 30% OO, 30% PO and 10% castor oil. Rather than your own special recipe until you know what the person is going to be like?


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## nsmar4211 (Nov 24, 2015)

Or grab some of the premixed bags o batter from Brambleberry? Then you have somewhere to direct them to pick up supplies........ 

One thing I've learned is even if I had the exact recipe, my results will be different. Whether due to the high humidity here, my crockpot heating differently (HP), my stickblender turning ever slightly slower, my mold having x number of batches in it, etc....it won't be exactly the same . And hey, you can share a recipe....for $70! Or whatever price . 

"Super secret" always makes me put my wallet away... I'd rather hear "I spend four hours babysitting herbs in oil to make this soap" personally (as a buyer)


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## lenarenee (Nov 24, 2015)

amd said:


> I'm not sure I agree with "magically unique". When I create a recipe I run it through the Google Machine. I almost always find my recipe done somewhere else. If it's a blog/article I can read the comments, dig further into that individuals blog (if that's the case) to see if there's any follow up on how the soap performed after making. I have found a few responsible soapers who leave comments either on their own posts or with follow-up posts who say "this happened to my soap, so I've changed my recipe". Anyways, my point is... if you think your recipe is one of a kind, it might not be. Unless you have a patent on that thing, it's not yours.
> 
> I love people who share their things - like Shari. She shares her salt bar recipe that she sells in her store. I bought one of her salt bars (LOVE!) and tried making a few batches with her recipe, but salt bars aren't my thing. It's too much babysitting. I know how they're made, but I am perfectly happy to buy my salt bars from her. I think this is how a lot of people approach soapmaking - they want to know how, they might even attempt it once after they know how, but very few are going to become regulars.
> 
> This realization made me decide to do the brown bag lunch at work (not until after the new year though) as a demonstration on how to make soap and not a class. Thanks to the discussion here, I am going to put together some handouts for anyone who wants to take it further (where to get local supplies for a grocery store soap, where to get supplies online, and where to go for more [good] information... maybe even a "soap myths debunked" handout).



Wow oh wow, I totally screwed the up!  It should read that I do not think think our recipes are unique....that somewhere in the world someone has made an exact or nearly exact copy of the recipe!  Sorry everyone, I bet that post  didn't make any sense.



lenarenee said:


> Okay, I've changed my mind. After spending about 10 hours over 2 days teaching someone to soap - with my ingredients and my recipe and my molds and my cutter and my curing space....she had the nerve to tell me that she makes prettier soap than I do, and  taking credit for my recipe and promising others she'll teach them to soap....with MY recipe. Also found out she's been giving out the soap I gave her to her relative and friends and taking credit for it.
> 
> Today she tells me she wants MY personal favorite recipe!!  (Oh, she just might get it too....:evil
> And...she told me she bought her own supplies and wants to come over and make soap together.  Uh...no. Twelve different kinds of no. I'm behind in my own soaping due to teaching her!
> ...



I'm not sure I've made myself clear so I'm going  to add: I don't have a problem sharing my recipes....except when people are lying to their friends and family that they carefully created it  over months of practice!!  And passing off MY soaps as their own!


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## dixiedragon (Nov 24, 2015)

lenarenee said:


> I'm not sure I've made myself clear so I'm going to add: I don't have a problem sharing my recipes....except when people are lying to their friends and family that they carefully created it over months of practice!! And passing off MY soaps as their own!


 
I got that part, it was totally clear. My sister likes to make goodie bags for her co-workers. She picks out a scent and a color scheme, then she sits and chats while I mix the soap. I do make her help me pour, though! :mrgreen:

She tells her co-workers that her sister made it and she helped.


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## lenarenee (Nov 24, 2015)

dixiedragon said:


> I got that part, it was totally clear. My sister likes to make goodie bags for her co-workers. She picks out a scent and a color scheme, then she sits and chats while I mix the soap. I do make her help me pour, though! :mrgreen:
> 
> She tells her co-workers that her sister made it and she helped.


 
I hear supervising is hard work!


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## RDak (Nov 26, 2015)

FWIW, I only give away soaps and the family uses them at home. Never sold soap.

I have many people ask for what recipe they should start out with and I always keep it simple.

50% lard/tallow/palm or even grocery shortening (their choice), 30% OO and 20% CO.

They have always been happy with that simple recipe.


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## mandy318 (Nov 26, 2015)

I wanted to come back to this thread and share a quote I stumbled across. This is more concisely what I meant to communicate in the OP. I think you have to start the path of learning--not just learning to soap, but learning about mostly anything, by learning the "rules". Once you learn the rules, you can begin to innovate. Even for someone who just wants to learn how to make "a" soap, rather than learn how to soap, if its not approached with an attitude of willingness to research and read and do the "boring" work of understanding the chemistry, that person will always be a little lost when they have a problem or a batch doesn't turn out how they expected. They won't know what they don't know!


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## lsg (Nov 26, 2015)

May I add that practice, practice, practice lends to learning and understanding of how things work together, even for the lay person.


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## sonoransoapnmadness (Nov 26, 2015)

Mandy, did you ever find out more about what your friend wanted? And have you come to a decision?  After Lenaree's experience, it seems doubly important to clarify.


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## mandy318 (Nov 27, 2015)

I didn't. My friend was actually my now former boss. After I changed jobs now I don't see her at all. But--she recently got her hands on a bunch of beef tallow and had said she would render me some, so really that might be a good time to invite her to make the soap with me. I'll come back and update when that happens!


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## Arimara (Nov 27, 2015)

mandy318 said:


> I wanted to come back to this thread and share a quote I stumbled across. This is more concisely what I meant to communicate in the OP. I think you have to start the path of learning--not just learning to soap, but learning about mostly anything, by learning the "rules". Once you learn the rules, you can begin to innovate. Even for someone who just wants to learn how to make "a" soap, rather than learn how to soap, if its not approached with an attitude of willingness to research and read and do the "boring" work of understanding the chemistry, that person will always be a little lost when they have a problem or a batch doesn't turn out how they expected. They won't know what they don't know!



I deliberately made soap in 200g batches. It indeed showed me all the problems people have said could arise from doing that but I considered it a good lesson. massive soda ash was the least of my problems (4 out of 6 bars  out of 3 batches I made were safely gelled. the others, due to my not wanting them around my kid and space constraints, were disposed of.

I am glad to know that so far, lye heavy soap can feel like a brick.


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## dixiedragon (Nov 27, 2015)

Met a lady at Tgiving yesterday who is interested in making soap, lotion, etc. I said I'd love to show her how. Then she starts talking about natural scents and colors...and Young Living essential oils. *sigh*


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## Arimara (Nov 28, 2015)

dixiedragon said:


> Met a lady at Tgiving yesterday who is interested in making soap, lotion, etc. I said I'd love to show her how. Then she starts talking about natural scents and colors...and Young Living essential oils. *sigh*



Would NOW be any better?


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## dixiedragon (Nov 28, 2015)

Arimara said:


> Would NOW be any better?



NOW is way better, IMO b/c while the oils are pricey compared to ordering larger quantities online, their price for 1 oz isn't THAT far off from, say Brambleberry. also, NOW isn't a MLM and doesn't have a MLM style cult touting its benefits.


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## Arimara (Nov 28, 2015)

dixiedragon said:


> NOW is way better, IMO b/c while the oils are pricey compared to ordering larger quantities online, their price for 1 oz isn't THAT far off from, say Brambleberry. also, NOW isn't a MLM and doesn't have a MLM style cult touting its benefits.



Thanks. I haven't bucked up on too many companies like that.


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## dixiedragon (Nov 28, 2015)

Somebody posted a tragic story on Brambleberry's forum about their family member whose wife was into either YL or doTerra. The guy was diagnosed with cancer and the wife convinced him not to do treatment except for EOs. So this horrible malignant cancer was causing open wounds on his body and she's pouring essential oils all over them, insisting it's "drawing out the toxins." The man died in agony.


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## notapantsday (Nov 28, 2015)

If people decide that for themselves: It's their life. They should be confronted with the truth, but if they refuse to believe it, there's really not much you can do except being available in case they change their mind.

But what's always tragic is if people make these decisions for other people. One of my mother's best friends was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder and instead of seeking therapy and medication, his wife pressured him into "accepting his nature" and not doing anything about it. To her, therapy was "brainwashing" and medication was poison. After his first failed suicide attempt, he fortunately got a divorce and the help he needed. From what I've heard, he's doing better now. Meanwhile, she has been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis (I'm not making this up, I swear) and is getting herself all the treatment that 21st century medicine has to offer. Apparently she had a change of mind.

Sorry for being offtopic, but that is one thing that drives me absolutely mad. I can't even write down how I feel when children are involved....


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## Becky_Gadmer (Dec 4, 2015)

*I agree 100%. I am learning and have learned soaping by just jumping into it. It's not enough for me to do months of research on something that has life-applicable skills; I have to learn as I'm going along. * --quoting Arimara

I agree!

I originally looked into soaping because my "Master Plan" is to get land and be as self-sustaining as possible and live simply. It was not to have another hobby, but to do something for necessity. I watched a few videos, read a LOT, and almost moved on with the intent to just keep buying our soap, but then decided that was ridiculous because the whole purpose was for self-sustainment (but now definintely will be a hobby---the only way I can explain the cost to my husband!). 

I was losing interest because of the not "doing", but only researching. 
For me,  I learn best by doing. Trial and error type girl. While I can glean the information I research and spit it back out, if  I don't DO something with it, it's just data to me. It doesn't really MEAN anything to me until I start creating something, but boy! it felt special....even though my first batch didn't turn out to be what I envisioned, it was _something_! and since it wasn't something I was uber proud of, I wanted to keep trying, and I'm so glad I did because I enjoy it, and my outcomes are improving which is my positive reinforcement to myself. Plus, to improve, I have to learn something new, so that pushes me to research, which is what led me to you wonderful people!


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