# Kaolin Clay



## SoapSap (Nov 14, 2014)

I used Kaolin clay as a scent fixative in a batch if cold process soap. I mixed it in the scent until I had a med thick slurry but foolishly did not measure the clay. I just tested a small amount of soap after a week of curing and it seems a bit crumbly. Could this have been caused by using too much Kaolin clay?

How much Kaolin clay do you think can be used PPO?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 15, 2014)

I'm on the app so it's harder to search, but when you saw about it being used as a fixative, was there info on uses rates? I think (only think, mind you) that it is 1 tblsp or tsp ppo usually, but I don't use it myself so I am not sure at all.


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## goji_fries (Nov 15, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> I'm on the app so it's harder to search, but when you saw about it being used as a fixative, was there info on uses rates? I think (only think, mind you) that it is 1 tblsp or tsp ppo usually, but I don't use it myself so I am not sure at all.



1 tsp ppo is safe can go as high as 1 Tbsp. Too much clay can also dry a person out. Recently used Morocaan red clay 1 Tbsp in 53 oz batch. worked great. I often couple Moroccan clay with Orris root.


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## SoapSap (Nov 15, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> I'm on the app so it's harder to search, but when you saw about it being used as a fixative, was there info on uses rates? I think (only think, mind you) that it is 1 tblsp or tsp ppo usually, but I don't use it myself so I am not sure at all.




I don't believe the information I read said anything other than to use it to make a slurry to mix the scents. I made a 3 lb soap loaf and I don't believe I could have used any more than 3 tsp., if even that much. 

But next time I will definitely measure.

Thanks much. I almost always make 3 lb. batches. Next time I will measure and do the lower end at 1 tsp. PPO.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 15, 2014)

SoapSap said:


> I don't believe the information I read said anything other than to use it to make a slurry to mix the scents. I made a 3 lb soap loaf and I don't believe I could have used any more than 3 tsp., if even that much.
> 
> But next time I will definitely measure.
> 
> Thanks much. I almost always make 3 lb. batches. Next time I will measure and do the lower end at 1 tsp. PPO.



Okay, so now we are fairly certain that it isn't the clay causing the issues - I wonder what it was?  Did you leave it too long in mould?  What was the recipe?


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## cmzaha (Nov 15, 2014)

I use 2 tbs in a 5 oz batch with no problems. Kaolin is such a nice fluffy clay I love it in soap and it help lighten my batter


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## Nevada (Nov 15, 2014)

Fluffy vs Packed. I started with .5% of oils and never looked backed.


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## Jstar (Nov 15, 2014)

I stick to the 1 tsp ppo..and I mix it directly into my oils and make sure its mixed very well before adding my lye solution so I don't get speckles...no need to make a slurry to mix it in


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## SoapSap (Nov 16, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Okay, so now we are fairly certain that it isn't the clay causing the issues - I wonder what it was?  Did you leave it too long in mould?  What was the recipe?




The formula was as follows:

16oz. Coconut oil
16 oz. Palm Oil
16 oz Olive Oil
2 oz. Castor Oil

19 oz. (588.64 g) Distilled Water
7.4 oz. (209.72 g) Lye

1 1/2 tsp. Sodium Lactate added to lye solution 

+ the Kaolin Clay that I am uncertain of the amount. But as said earlier, I really don't think it was more than 3 tsps.


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## Jstar (Nov 17, 2014)

Recipe looks ok to me..maybe a bit heavy on the water amount...my calc calls for 16.6, with 7.6 lye...that wont make it crumble tho...

I don't use SL, but my bets are on that...added with the clay it could make it crumbly.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 18, 2014)

Aye, doesn't look like it should be crumbly. 

How long was it in the mould for? Did you insulate or anything like that?


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## SoapSap (Nov 18, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Aye, doesn't look like it should be crumbly.
> 
> How long was it in the mould for? Did you insulate or anything like that?




I did nit insulate. It was in the mold a full 24 hour. I cut it after another 24 hours to make sure there was no drag. It seemed just fine at that point. A week later I cut a sample piece and that was crumbly. 

I think too the clay and the SL may have made it too hard too fast?  The bars seem Rock hard already.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 18, 2014)

SoapSap said:


> I did nit insulate. It was in the mold a full 24 hour. I cut it after another 24 hours to make sure there was no drag. It seemed just fine at that point. A week later I cut a sample piece and that was crumbly.
> 
> I think too the clay and the SL may have made it too hard too fast? The bars seem Rock hard already.


 
I'm not sure that I understand - timeline is:

Unmoulded at 24 hours
Cut at 48 hours
Crumbly when cut at 1 week

Is that right?

If so, I have never tried to cut a week-old soap, but I imagine it would not be the best at all.  It should be too hard to cut well at that age which might well make it crumble.  Does it crumble when used, too, or just when you try to cut it?


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## SoapSap (Nov 20, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> I'm not sure that I understand - timeline is:
> 
> Unmoulded at 24 hours
> Cut at 48 hours
> ...





Sorry I did not state that very clearly. 
1. Unfolded at 24 hours
2. Cut into bars after 48 hours ( it was in the mold for 24 hours and remained as an uncut slab for another 24 hours - thus 48 hours).
3. A week after cutting the loaf into bars, I cut a one of the bars into slices (was going to use those as samples. That is when I thought the soap seemed crumbly).

I think that explains the sequence of events more clearly.


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## SoapSap (Nov 20, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> I'm not sure that I understand - timeline is:
> 
> Unmoulded at 24 hours
> Cut at 48 hours
> ...






It have not used the soap yet. I think it was just crumbly when cutting. I think you are correct and the soap was probably too hard to cut at that point and so crumbled. Had not thought of that as the reason at the time.


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## Jstar (Nov 20, 2014)

That could very well be it...after 48 hrs, soaps with high levels of harder oils will be really too hard to try cutting smoothly..I usually am cutting mine no later than 15 hrs but have cut at 8 hrs ..just depends on my recipe. 

When I first started out, I made a 100% CO soap, and waited a full 24 hrs to unmold and cut {cuz thats what everyone said to wait till} and my soap shattered  It was like a brick haha.

I have since not worried about waiting a full 24 hrs unless Im making a soap with softer oils, like alot of OO...I cut when I feel its hard enough.


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