# Looking for legal direction



## Catscankim (Oct 18, 2020)

Hoping somebody with some legal knowledge can point me in the right direction...

ok, recap of my past year. I was renting from my best friend, with plans to rent to own starting this past January. I have been at my house now for 2 1/2 years. Long story short, she died last October before the agreement was signed. I have a lease, just not the rent to own agreement. Thats kind of irrelevant right now.

Since she died, i have made my rent payments to her estate. This past September 24th, i got a text msg from the estates real estate agent...” hey kim. Its josh. We met a while back at the house. We just closed on it. So we now own the house and will be your contact from here on out.”

I didnt know the son sold the house, but thats irrelevant as well i guess. A couple of days after this text i got a 3 day notice to vacate. He never contacted me about any lease or rent or anything. Just that stupid text message. I checked the county appraisers office, and the house was still listed as being under Pams name. I get it...COVID and things are taking a while.  But get this part...the 3 day notice was posted under a different name, not Josh. I have a Realtor friend who kept checking on property sales for me. She said to not even respond because its still under Pam.

So i guess it finally flipped over to the new owners name Phogh Enterprises LLC. When i search for them on google, it doesnt even say what their business is.

Friday night this week, I was at the poolhall for a tournament. This man walks up to me and asks if i am kim. “You’ve been served” He is a private investigator he says. Nice...I was all the way in the back who the heck showed him where i was lol.

This whole thing is fishy to me. I think i took my realtor friends bad advice by not contacting him. But he never sent me anything or asked to meet with him to discuss any arrangements or signing a lease with him. Just that one text msg telling me that he was my new contact. Nothing since. Then a 3-day from a totally different person.

Should i get a lawyer? I have to write a letter to the court, cc to their listed attorney to respond within 5 business days.


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## lsg (Oct 18, 2020)

Yes, get a lawyer's advice.


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## Catscankim (Oct 18, 2020)

I know this is a weird place to ask. Some of you are pretty good at legal-ese. If anything, consider it a rant.


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## Peachy Clean Soap (Oct 18, 2020)

I haven't a clue' but I wish you well.


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## buttonsHT (Oct 18, 2020)

There is a Joshua Bradley who is a managing member at Phogh Enterprises LLC. I would assume that's the Josh from your post. The LLC is most likely a "flipping/rental" company who flips houses and owns rental properties.









						Phogh Enterprises LLC in Port Saint Lucie FL - Company Profile
					

View company leaders and background information for Phogh Enterprises LLC. Search our database of over 100 million company and executive profiles.



					www.corporationwiki.com


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## GemstonePony (Oct 18, 2020)

I don't know what your lease looks like, and I'm not a lawyer, but it seems fishy that you didn't receive notice that the home was being sold from the party who did the selling. While what they're trying to do may not be legal, the law is generally in the side of whoever has been working the legal system the longest, so I'd say you're a few weeks behind on getting a lawyer.


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## AliOop (Oct 18, 2020)

Hire a lawyer immediately. In most states,  the text wouldn’t be sufficient legal notice of a property transfer, but time is not in your side. Gather all your rent receipts (canceled checks, proof of ACH payments, etc.)

ETA: when I’m searching for legal counsel in a state where I don’t know any other lawyers, I go to AVVO.com.

First, search for the area of law (landlord-tenant in this case). Then look through the results for lawyers with good ratings who will represent tenants.

Another rating source is lawyerlocator.com, which is the site for Martindale Hubble.


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## TheGecko (Oct 18, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> A couple of days after this text i got a 3 day notice to vacate.



Uh...no...it doesn't work that way.  I will first advise you to IMMEDIATELY contact an attorney who specialized in Landlord/Tenant Law, but I can give you some general advice. 

If you have a lease/rental agreement, it stays in effect even after the property is sold. Nothing changes as far as you are concerned, you are just writing your check to a different person/company. You will want to contact Josh and ask him how he wants his rental payments made and delivered. You should also verify where your security deposit is being held.

Now with the above said, you will now have to refer to your lease/rental agreement about termination.  If you are on a month-to-month, there is usually a specified time person for 'notice'...notice to the landlord that you are moving, or notice from the landlord that they are terminating.  This specified time period can be anywhere from 30 to 90 days.

If you are on a yearly lease, the lease would end at the end of period...period.  The new owner cannot evict you, though they can offer to buy you out.  And like with month-to-month, there will be 'notice' language.


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## Catscankim (Oct 18, 2020)

buttonsHT said:


> There is a Joshua Bradley who is a managing member at Phogh Enterprises LLC. I would assume that's the Josh from your post. The LLC is most likely a "flipping/rental" company who flips houses and owns rental properties.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes. Its josh Bradley


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## cmzaha (Oct 18, 2020)

Listen to The Gecko. I will guess the rent to buy is not going to help you when it is not in writing. I do not know of any state that lets an owner even a new owner evict with a 3-day notice. Those are usually formal 3 day pay rent or quit notices that have to go with eviction notices at least here in CA. I never figured out the point of them myself. I have never heard of a 3-day notice to vacate, I think they are doing their best to bluff you. Do not panic at this point although sadly you will most likely have to move it is a question of how long it takes at this point. Where I live we cannot even evict at this point with Covid. Call your county and check on your local Covid housing laws. Paying for a lawyer may be a waste of money because they are the new owners but they will have to follow the lease. I simply would not pay to fight something that is not in writing, and most evictions can be handled in small claims court. Also, evictions are not legal without judgments, but the problem there is if it goes to judgment it ruins credit. Some states such as Nevada and California are not even accepting Eviction filings. You need to check with your state and county rules for evictions at this time. Here everything is on hold until next March. There are also many ways such as health issues to stall for time. Yep, I have dealt with rentals most of my life either mine or my parents, and have seen it all. Call the Fair Housing Department for your State.

Sadly unless you do get a good lawyer and have good reliable witnesses about the rent to own verbal I doubt that will go anywhere. When it is not "signed sealed and delivered", per se, it usually means nothing. On the flip side, you have had a place to live. As I always told my kids, I could not guarantee my kids the house of my mothers was a guarantee for them forever, and low and behold my mother under my sister's influence evicted them over a year ago.  That is another long sordid story...

ETA: Attorneys easily run $350-$500 + per hr. How much do you want to spend? Also many will tell you what you want to hear to get you hooked then it changes when they get your case. It is much more advisable to find a new place.


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## Catscankim (Oct 18, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> Listen to The Gecko. I will guess the rent to buy is not going to help you when it is not in writing. I do not know of any state that lets an owner even a new owner evict with a 3-day notice. Those are usually formal 3 day pay rent or quit notices that have to go with eviction notices at least here in CA. I never figured out the point of them myself. I have never heard of a 3-day notice to vacate, I think they are doing their best to bluff you. Do not panic at this point although sadly you will most likely have to move it is a question of how long it takes at this point. Where I live we cannot even evict at this point with Covid. Call your county and check on your local Covid housing laws. Paying for a lawyer may be a waste of money because they are the new owners but they will have to follow the lease. I simply would not pay to fight something that is not in writing, and most evictions can be handled in small claims court. Also, evictions are not legal without judgments, but the problem there is if it goes to judgment it ruins credit. Some states such as Nevada and California are not even accepting Eviction filings. You need to check with your state and county rules for evictions at this time. Here everything is on hold until next March. There are also many ways such as health issues to stall for time. Yep, I have dealt with rentals most of my life either mine or my parents, and have seen it all. Call the Fair Housing Department for your State.
> 
> Sadly unless you do get a good lawyer and have good reliable witnesses about the rent to own verbal I doubt that will go anywhere. When it is not "signed sealed and delivered", per se, it usually means nothing. On the flip side, you have had a place to live. As I always told my kids, I could not guarantee my kids the house of my mothers was a guarantee for them forever, and low and behold my mother under my sister's influence evicted them over a year ago.  That is another long sordid story...
> 
> ETA: Attorneys easily run $350-$500 + per hr. How much do you want to spend? Also many will tell you what you want to hear to get you hooked then it changes when they get your case. It is much more advisable to find a new place.


I already know the rent to own isnt going to be relevant right now. This new owner has nothing to do with that.

but i was in a situation before that a condo i was renting was sold. The new owner left a card on my door to please call and we could figure something out. So i called. He came over, and we did a new lease. He didnt care about my prior deposit etc...it had nothing to do with him buying the house. That was between me and the old landlord/lease.

I feel like whatever this guy is doing is fishy. You cant text someone out of the blue that you now own the house, then give notice to vacate within days. I just sent a msg to an attorney on @AliOop website suggestion. I just want to know my options


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## Catscankim (Oct 18, 2020)

AliOop said:


> Hire a lawyer immediately. In most states,  the text wouldn’t be sufficient legal notice of a property transfer, but time is not in your side. Gather all your rent receipts (canceled checks, proof of ACH payments, etc.)
> 
> ETA: when I’m searching for legal counsel in a state where I don’t know any other lawyers, I go to AVVO.com.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I just messaged an attny from the AVVO website. Not sure how responsive he is on a Sunday.

Not sure if my prior payments to the estate count, but everything was always done through zelle. With Pam (when she was alive) it was direct deposit from my pay.


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## Catscankim (Oct 18, 2020)

TheGecko said:


> Uh...no...it doesn't work that way.  I will first advise you to IMMEDIATELY contact an attorney who specialized in Landlord/Tenant Law, but I can give you some general advice.
> 
> If you have a lease/rental agreement, it stays in effect even after the property is sold. Nothing changes as far as you are concerned, you are just writing your check to a different person/company. You will want to contact Josh and ask him how he wants his rental payments made and delivered. You should also verify where your security deposit is being held.
> 
> ...


Pam was a Realtor. She also owned 6 houses that she rented out. Her leases were always set up for a year, then goes month to month without signing a new lease. I have mostly always rented...its usually set up that way. My lease was set up for 18 months, with a rent to own option Jan 1st 2020. But absolutely no details about that in the lease.

I could give 20 names of ppl that she told that to, about my buying the house. I should have gotten an attorney before it was sold and claimed something against the estate. Too late for that now. I was her POA, and medical proxy. She called me her daughter. We were the dearest of friends. Shes rolling over in her grave right now over this.


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## cmzaha (Oct 18, 2020)

You can check on the ownership of the property through county records which are public. Although right now everything is harder with Covid at the moment. Simply do not move until you get legal eviction paperwork. Do you have a way to get in touch with her son that inherited the property or whoever is managing the property? These house flippers are very snakey people. I dealt with one that was trying to purchase one of my mom's, the house my daughter was evicted from. Nothing was scaring him off, even letters from my Attorney, until he finally found out I gained control. He actually got my mom to sign a promise to sell paper. Who knows this person could be harassing her son to sell, but you can usually track it down yourself. Nothing can be done without going through legal avenues. Please take my advice and do not go through avenues like AVVO for legal advice. Sorry AliOop, but this is not where you find quality advice. The two big problems I fought and won were won because I had quality attornies.


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## Catscankim (Oct 18, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> You can check on the ownership of the property through county records which are public. Although right now everything is harder with Covid at the moment. Simply do not move until you get legal eviction paperwork. Do you have a way to get in touch with her son that inherited the property or whoever is managing the property? These house flippers are very snakey people. I dealt with one that was trying to purchase one of my mom's, the house my daughter was evicted from. Nothing was scaring him off, even letters from my Attorney, until he finally found out I gained control. He actually got my mom to sign a promise to sell paper. Who knows this person could be harassing her son to sell, but you can usually track it down yourself. Nothing can be done without going through legal avenues. Please take my advice and do not go through avenues like AVVO for legal advice. Sorry AliOop, but this is not where you find quality advice. The two big problems I fought and won were won because I had quality attornies.


I got legal eviction paperwork. Thats what i was served on friday. But its for non payment of rent. I was never asked for rent, nor have they ever talked to me about signing a lease or asked to leave


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## cmzaha (Oct 18, 2020)

Did you have POA for financials or just Medical. I assume she had a Trust and you were not the Trustee. I only assume this since you make the payments to the estate. If your lease mentions anything about the rent to buy you might have a case. In that case,I would ask your friend that is in Real Estate if she knows a good Real Estate Lawyer, which is what you will need.

If you were making payments you were paying rent or payments. Track them down. Just remember to send all correspondence in writing and keep proof. Whether emails or certified mail. Keep all copies. There are programs that will download text messages that exactly as on your phone if you go that route. But emails are definitely easier to print and keep.


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## Catscankim (Oct 18, 2020)

The POA ends if the person dies


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## lenarenee (Oct 18, 2020)

So sorry for all these legal mess Catscankim.  This kind of problem drives me crazy because it's beyond the scope of a typical person's knowledge base which means floundering in the dark. I don't find it weird that you came here to ask - because there's a  large group of people with at least one thing in common and who are generally quite helpful.


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## TheGecko (Oct 18, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> I just messaged an attny from the AVVO website.



Waste of time.  Get on the phone first thing in the morning, you want an attorney who specializes in Landlord/Tenant Law.  Many attorneys offer an initial free or low cost consultation...speak to two.



> Thats what i was served on friday. But its for non payment of rent. I was never asked for rent, nor have they ever talked to me about signing a lease or asked to leave



Sit down TODAY and document. If you can, screenshot the text messages from "Josh". Make sure you have a record of all your rent payments during probate and a check for rent for October. Make a list of attorneys to start calling at 8am. Write a simple statement of what is happening when you speak to the attorney or legal assistant/secretary...something along the lines of:

_From XXX date to XXX I was renting a house from Pam XXXX and on October XX, 2019, Pam died. I was advised that all future rental payments were to be made payable to her estate...which I did.  On September 24th of this year, I received an text message from the Estate's real estate agent advising me that they had purchased the home and that they would be my point of content.  On September 26th, I received a 3-day notice  to vacate.  Then on October 16th, I was served with eviction papers for non-payment of rent.  _

Two questions that the attorney is going to ask you is 1) why you didn't follow up with Josh when you were first notified that he had purchased the house? And 2) why you didn't respond to the 3-day notice? You need to have a better answer than _"I was never asked for rent, nor have they ever talked to me about signing a lease or asked to leave."_ You're an adult, it is presumed as an adult, that you would have asked about paying rent, getting a new lease, responding to the notice...not hanging out at the pool hall. And if you think I'm being harsh, I'm actually being a lot kinder than what a Judge is going to be if you use that lame excuse.

With the above being said...you need to plan to move WITHIN the next 90 days.  The clock is ticking on the Eviction Notice.  NO NOT IGNORE IT because good luck in today's housing market trying to find a place with an eviction on your record.


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## Catscankim (Oct 18, 2020)

Extremely helpful and thank you for everything . I really appreciate it.

everybody says 90 days. If i thought i had 90 days i might actually be good with that. But it seems like less from what i have been reading. So trust me, i am taking all advice to heart.


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## Catscankim (Oct 18, 2020)

@TheGecko I like your timeline the way it is written. I might use that


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## TheGecko (Oct 18, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> Extremely helpful and thank you for everything . I really appreciate it.
> 
> everybody says 90 days. If i thought i had 90 days i might actually be good with that. But it seems like less from what i have been reading. So trust me, i am taking all advice to heart.



Did a little research for L/T Law in Florida:

_Both landlords and tenants can terminate a month-to-month lease at any time, as long as they inform the other person *in writing* at least 15 days before the next rent payment is due. This timeline is much quicker than in other states, which generally require at least a month’s notice.

For the 15 days’ notice to count under Florida law, it must be a physical letter—either mailed or personally delivered to the other person. (Landlords can also leave a copy of the letter at the tenant’s residence if they’re not at home to accept it.)_

Info on the Eviction process:

_Your landlord must first give you, the tenant, a written notice before you can be evicted. The notice must be in writing, and must give you 3 days to pay the rent or leave (vacate). The 3-day time frame does not include weekends, holidays, or the day the notice is given. If you offer to pay the full rent within that time, your landlord must take it. The landlord does not have to accept the money if it is less than the total amount owed.

Landlords must give tenants a 7-day written notice before evicting them. This notice must list what the tenant has done wrong and must warn the tenant that they are being evicted. The tenant must then be allowed to fix, or “cure,” the problem at least once. Nothing else should happen if the tenant fixes the problem (by getting rid of the animal, no longer parking in the wrong spot, etc.)._

I would be interested in what the 3-day Notice said and what the Eviction Notice said.  

Anyhoo...you only have FIVE business days in which to respond to the Complaint.


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## AliOop (Oct 18, 2020)

Sorry for not responding sooner. I was in church this morning and then out to lunch with friends. PMd you back now.


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## Suzette (Oct 18, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> Hoping somebody with some legal knowledge can point me in the right direction...
> 
> ok, recap of my past year. I was renting from my best friend, with plans to rent to own starting this past January. I have been at my house now for 2 1/2 years. Long story short, she died last October before the agreement was signed. I have a lease, just not the rent to own agreement. Thats kind of irrelevant right now.
> 
> ...


I don’t know anything about real estate law, but your story grabbed me. I feel terrible for you and hope you find a good resolution.


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## Lin19687 (Oct 21, 2020)

Fl law has 3 day evictions as stated before.
Just because it is not recorded at the town hall means nothing.  Those can take months.
The county court of deeds would have this as it was likely just a deed name change due to an estate sale.
NO ONE needs to tell you the house is for sale or sold, period.

I would call this guy and ask if you can have 30 days to move.


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## TheGecko (Oct 21, 2020)

Lin19687 said:


> Fl law has 3 day evictions as stated before.



It's 3-day notice, not 3-day eviction.


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## Lin19687 (Oct 21, 2020)

Yes you are correct, I went back and re-read, I guess I also didn't remember we are in oct too...

Ok, so this is not going to sound nice but you asked.....

You got a text SEPTEMBER 24th and didn't respond, to a person you had met previously.
Then you got a Notice to quit and Didn't respond to that.

Also let me understand, you did not pay October's rent to "Josh" ? If this is correct then it is correct as an Eviction for Nonpayment.

The court will not allow you to play innocent since the Original owner was a friend and you knew she died. New owner contacted you, text maybe allowed depending on any court precedents... with now a days it very well could be.
It's been almost a month and you still have not called or texted Josh.

Personally, I would be packing my all my stuff up and hope you can find an apt asap

Edit...As a former landlord of 50 units I can tell you that if you had contacted me I would have tried to work things out. But if someone does not make contact then it is court I go. Plus he now has to pay for the serving and court filings, plus he's out rent and use of the house. And now you will gave a court record attached to your name and credit ( depending on outcome).
Text him, ask to get 30 days to move and if you can pay the arrears and November rent today.


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## AliOop (Oct 22, 2020)

Lin19687 said:


> You got a text SEPTEMBER 24th and didn't respond, to a person you had met previously.
> Then you got a Notice to quit and Didn't respond to that.
> 
> Also let me understand, you did not pay October's rent to "Josh" ? If this is correct then it is correct as an Eviction for Nonpayment.


With all the scammers around today, I believe a court would be very understanding of her concerns about responding to a text, especially since she has a written lease that provides for how notice must be given. Unless the lease specifically provides that the LL can give the lessee notices via text message, then that was legally insufficient notice by law. It also doesn't sound like the text included any information about how or where to pay Josh. 

There is also a federal moratorium on evictions right now, due to COVID-19. If a person fits the criteria, it's a simple matter of signing the declaration form, serving it on the LL or his attorney, and then filing it with the court. The court is then required to put the eviction on hold until December 31, assuming that the moratorium doesn't get extended.

That being said, I wholeheartedly am in the camp of "call them and try to work it out." Because eventually the day in court will come. Always best to try and mend fences early and avoid more trouble later.


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## Treats Soapworks (Oct 23, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> Hoping somebody with some legal knowledge can point me in the right direction...
> 
> ok, recap of my past year. I was renting from my best friend, with plans to rent to own starting this past January. I have been at my house now for 2 1/2 years. Long story short, she died last October before the agreement was signed. I have a lease, just not the rent to own agreement. Thats kind of irrelevant right now.
> 
> ...




Verbal contracts are binding if you can prove it in any way, such as your regular rent was 1000 and you were paying an extra 100 for the option to buy.  Or someone can testify that was the agreement they heard the previous owner tell you you could buy the house. There must be consideration, usually money, but love and affection is considered legal consideration. The son had an obligation to tell you he was selliing the house which makes me think he knew of the promise to sell to you. Title transfer happens at the exact time of the closing when the docs are signed and escrow officer files paperwork with the county the home is in. 

You should take as much evidence, calls, texts, emails, witness statements as you can muster and get a free consultation. 

Or you can show up to court with your documents and ask for the hearing to be postponed as you have not had enough time to gather your documents and hire an attorney. 

YOU MUST SHOW UP FOR THE HEARING or you forfeit everything, and will not be given a chance to respond and they will proceed with an eviction.  

I have a California Realtors License, I have been in court many times over things like this. I am not an attorney, but promise you what I have said is true. My email is [email protected]. Feel free to contact me directly. You only have a limited time to respond. I would respond through the court so there is a record and you get SOME help. The attorney for the other party will NOT assist you, other than to get you out.



Treats Soapworks said:


> Verbal contracts are binding if you can prove it in any way, such as your regular rent was 1000 and you were paying an extra 100 for the option to buy.  Or someone can testify that was the agreement they heard the previous owner tell you you could buy the house. There must be consideration, usually money, but love and affection is considered legal consideration. The son had an obligation to tell you he was selling the house which makes me think he knew of the promise to sell to you. Title transfer happens at the exact time of the closing when the docs are signed and escrow officer files paperwork with the county the home is in.
> 
> You should take as much evidence, calls, texts, emails, witness statements as you can muster and get a free consultation.
> 
> ...



You can work it out and just move out or take a chance that you have enough evidence to prove you had an agreement. If you cant find any proof of your agreement, you may just want to see if you can get some extra time to move. Lin19687 is right though, you must be current on your rent, otherwise you dont have a leg to stand on. The rest either becomes another agreement between you and the new owner or an issue for the court to be determined by the Judge, and laws of where you reside. 

Legal contracts have to have the following elements:

1. Mutual Consent of the parties, you make an offer, owner accepts
2. Consideration= ANYTHING of value, it can be money, work traded, or any other benefit conferred. Good Consideration= love and affection and meets the legal requirement.
3. Competent Parties= over 18, sound mind
4. Lawful Object= has to be legal, cant be something like a cocaine deal. House sale is legal.
5. Typically a real estate contract is in writing, an email will prove the intent. This will be your hardest issue. You will likely require an attorney for this. 

I hope this helps, same thing happened to me, but I did not know this when it did.


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## alpfabetti (Jul 25, 2022)

So, is there a follow-up post? It would be really interesting to find out how the whole thing ended. I always try to be careful with stories like this one because you never know what will happen to you, and it’s always better to have at least a public image of what you have to do.


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## alpfabetti (Jul 31, 2022)

alpfabetti said:


> So, is there a follow-up post? It would be really interesting to find out how the whole thing ended. I always try to be careful with stories like this one because you never know what will happen to you, and it’s always better to have at least a public image of what you have to do.


I am not a professional at all, and in all the cases that start to smell bad, I just contact my lawyer from ucmjdefense.com and make sure they know all they want/need to know so they can help me in the best way. But I also ask them to explain things to me so I am not totally lost and can have at least some control over the situation.


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