# Oat and honey liquid soap



## SoapingMama18 (Jan 2, 2019)

Hello everyone,
I'm trying to make an oatmeal honey liquid soap for my 13 month old son that has sensitive skin. I'm at a loss of when or how to incorporate the oats and honey when making the soap. Also what oils would be best to use? I appreciate any help. Thank you!


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## IrishLass (Jan 2, 2019)

Welcome, Soaping Mama!  This is just me, but I personally would not use any soap at all on an infant. Most pediatricians I've talked to recommend using only water to wash a baby's skin until a child is at least 3 to 6 months old, especially if they have sensitive skin. Their skin's acid/alkaline mantle is still very immature in infanthood and has a harder time than adult skin in bouncing back from the pH changes that soap causes to it.

Having said that, to answer your question about oats and honey in liquid soap....I would add honey (mixed with a little water first to dilute) either to your cooled off lye water, or stickblended into your oils before mixing in the lye water. Don't add it at dilution time when all the lye has already been reacted, since honey is a food for bacterial growth in liquid soap if added when diluting the finished soap paste with water. If you add it at dilution after the lye has already turned everything into soap, the potential for bacterial growth is great unless you add a preservative. Although honey is a great preservative in and of itself to keep itself free from ickies, it is unfortunately not strong enough to preserve water-based products such as liquid soaps made with it.     

As for oats.....I'm personally skittish to add oats to my liquid soap because it is a food, and foods carry the potential of bacterial growth in products like liquid soap unless you use a preservative, but also because they'll just fall out of suspension to the bottom of the bottle. Oats are better served in a solid bar of soap if you ask me .


IrishLass


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## SoapingMama18 (Jan 2, 2019)

IrishLass said:


> Welcome, Soaping Mama!  This is just me, but I personally would not use any soap at all on an infant. Most pediatricians I've talked to recommend using only water to wash a baby's skin until a child is at least 3 to 6 months old, especially if they have sensitive skin. Their skin's acid/alkaline mantle is still very immature in infanthood and has a harder time than adult skin in bouncing back from the pH changes that soap causes to it.
> 
> Having said that, to answer your question about oats and honey in liquid soap....I would add honey (mixed with a little water first to dilute) either to your cooled off lye water, or stickblended into your oils before mixing in the lye water. Don't add it at dilution time when all the lye has already been reacted, since honey is a food for bacterial growth in liquid soap if added when diluting the finished soap paste with water. If you add it at dilution after the lye has already turned everything into soap, the potential for bacterial growth is great unless you add a preservative. Although honey is a great preservative in and of itself to keep itself free from ickies, it is unfortunately not strong enough to preserve water-based products such as liquid soaps made with it.
> 
> ...


I should have worded that differently, my son is 13 months old. Thank you for that information! Ive also heard about using oat milk? Would that be the same as using oats and needing a preservative or different because its the water the oats soaked in? I'm fairly new to the liquid soap making.


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## KimT2au (Jan 3, 2019)

I am planning on making a oat liquid soap and have purchased some colloidal oatmeal because it is absorbed by the water.  I plan on using Jacky Thompson's no paste method so that I don't have the paste sitting around potentially growing bugs.  I have selected optiphen plus for the preservative as I read somewhere that it performs at a higher pH.  I have not used honey in either bar nor liquid soap so can offer no advice there.  I hope this info helps a bit @SoapingMama18 .  I do have question for the more experienced soapers though, what amount of colloidal oats should I use do you think.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 3, 2019)

Oat milk and oats are both sources of carbohydrates. By adding either to your diluted liquid soap, you are creating a complete and balanced diet for microorganisms -- water, fats, and carbs.

Diluted soap is more likely to support microbial growth than soap paste due to the free water in the diluted soap (read up on "water activity" or "unbound water") and the flowable nature of diluted soap that makes it possible for microbes to contaminate the entire volume of your product. If you need to worry about microbial growth in one or the other, it's the diluted soap you should be most concerned about.

The high pH of liquid soap and the use of a preservative aren't magic bullets that let you do anything you want without problems. You have to help your preservation system by formulating products with care. Adding large amounts of carbs is a real no-no when trying to minimize the chances of microbial growth, even if you use a preservative. Microbial growth isn't necessarily visible to the naked eye, so just because you don't _see _a problem doesn't mean the product is safe.

Optiphen as a preservative for liquid soap? Can you give a source for that info? I understand Optiphen is effective at pH 4-6 or 4-8 depending on the type you have, and that's nowhere near the alkaline pH of soap. 

Here's a reputable article about preservatives in cosmetics and soap -- http://makingskincare.com/preservatives/ It doesn't cover everything in detail, but it's a very good overview.


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## cmzaha (Jan 3, 2019)

KimT2au said:


> I am planning on making a oat liquid soap and have purchased some colloidal oatmeal because it is absorbed by the water.  I plan on using Jacky Thompson's no paste method so that I don't have the paste sitting around potentially growing bugs.  I have selected optiphen plus for the preservative as I read somewhere that it performs at a higher pH.  I have not used honey in either bar nor liquid soap so can offer no advice there.  I hope this info helps a bit @SoapingMama18 .  I do have question for the more experienced soapers though, what amount of colloidal oats should I use do you think.


There is no difference if you use oat milk, colloidal mixed in the water or any other way you are introducing a lot of water in liquid soap and bug food oatmeal. Without a full testing lab and the knowledge to do the testing I will not risk adding in bug food. Even extracts in lotion make me nervous enough to send out my lotion for challenge testing. I do use the home test kits for preliminary testing, if it comes out clear I proceed to sending out to a lab. I have also grown some interesting colored molds  in lotions. If you are determined to use oatmeal in liquid soap I would go with Hydrolyzed Oat Protein, but is it quite expensive.

If one is determined to make a liquid soap with oatmeal I would use Suttocide A preservative with the Optiphen Plus, but I never depend on one preservative. Since Suttocide A is synergistic with other preservatives and proven to work in high ph, is water soluble so it would be my choice. I never depend on one preservative.

Please think about the fact that Oatmeal is not good for everyone with eczema. I almost died as a child when a doctor prescribed an oatmeal bath for me, which it turned out, I was critically allergic to oatmeal baths even though I could eat oatmeal. Always Always test new products on a small area and do not depend on an allergic reaction to not show up the next day. A good example is, I had used a lotion with Evening Primrose for a couple of years no problem. The last batch I made sent me to emergency and I determined it was the EP. So be careful with eczema

DeeAnna beat me and does explain the reasons much better than I. At one time Optiphen was considered effective in high ph, but it has not really been proven from what I have read. LotionCrafter still states that it may be effective at high ph. We also have to keep in mind that these are preservatives produced for the home crafter, not big manufacturers. I can only imagine the large manufacturers use the individual preserving ingredients to formulate a preservative system for the ingredients in their products. At least that is my guess from going through many big manufacturers products.


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## SoapingMama18 (Jan 3, 2019)

Thank you, I have decided to not use oats in my liquid soap. The next question I have is what oils would be best to use for babies?


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## KimT2au (Jan 3, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Optiphen as a preservative for liquid soap? Can you give a source for that info? I understand Optiphen is effective at pH 4-6 or 4-8 depending on the type you have, and that's nowhere near the alkaline pH of soap.
> 
> Here's a reputable article about preservatives in cosmetics and soap -- http://makingskincare.com/preservatives/ It doesn't cover everything in detail, but it's a very good overview.



Thanks for that, @DeeAnna ,  I made a mistake, it was not Optiphen Plus I had purchased but  Liquid Germall Plus.  I had read the same article as you quoted and it said that it could be used at a higher pH so that was why I purchased that one.



cmzaha said:


> There is no difference if you use oat milk, colloidal mixed in the water or any other way you are introducing a lot of water in liquid soap and bug food oatmeal.
> 
> Please think about the fact that Oatmeal is not good for everyone with eczema. I almost died as a child when a doctor prescribed an oatmeal bath for me, which it turned out, I was critically allergic to oatmeal baths even though I could eat oatmeal.



The liquid soap would be for me, @cmzaha ,  and as I am already using oatmilk in a bar soap I figure it will be OK in a liquid soap.  We use bar soap at the hand basins but liquid soaps in the showers.

I guess the moral of the story is that I have a bunch of colloidal oatmeal sitting around waiting to be used and that I won't be using it in liquid soap


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## DeeAnna (Jan 3, 2019)

KimT2au said:


> Thanks for that, @DeeAnna ,  I made a mistake, it was not Optiphen Plus I had purchased but  Liquid Germall Plus.  I had read the same article as you quoted and it said that it could be used at a higher pH so that was why I purchased that one....



Ah, good to know. Thanks, Kim, for clarifying that. Much appreciated!


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## Clarice (Feb 1, 2019)

I made a 100% olive oil castille liquid soap recently.  I understand OO is supposed to be very gentle and non-stripping on the skin.  The batch yielded a medium hard paste which i cut up into chunks and store "dry" in little plastic containers.  When I need some soap, I fill up a mason jar with distilled water, drop in the cubes, and let it sit for a day or so, then give it a shake.  Viola!  Liquid soap with no preservatives.  I would love to hear from more experienced soap makers to confirm that storing the cubes dry would not allow for any bacteria growth. 

Here is a link to where I found the recipe.  My process did not precisely mimic hers - and I foolishly left the crock pot liner in the hot outer layer, after I switched it off, which is why by the AM the paste was significantly harder than hers. 

https://thethingswellmake.com/easy-beginner-diy-liquid-castile-soap-recipe/

Unlike hers, mine is also a bit cloudy - perhaps due to the overnight "cook".  So far happy with the reconstituted soap!


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