# Distilled Water



## Soapsense (Oct 12, 2013)

Hello all, I have a question/advice.  I never make soap in the summer, it's just too busy and hot & humid.  So any leftover oils etc I store in my cool cellar.  I decided to make soap today with my new round mold,and realized I forgot to go to the grocery store and buy distilled water.  I had an opened, but sealed gallon stored in my cellar, would you use it or make the 20 minute trek to the grocery store?  I'm pretty sure I know the answer and should start the car now, lol.  But thought I would ask.....


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## Lion Of Judah (Oct 12, 2013)

use it ! it will not hurt anything


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## Pepsi Girl (Oct 12, 2013)

I 2nd that!


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## Soapsense (Oct 12, 2013)

Thanx all, I wasn't sure if it would be okay. I only make it for myself and friends, but didn't want to waste the oils if it wouldn't be okay.


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## lsg (Oct 12, 2013)

I would use it.  The lye should get it hot enough that any nasties will be killed.


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## judymoody (Oct 12, 2013)

It often takes me a few months to work through a gallon of distilled water.  Never had a problem so far.


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## sososo (Oct 12, 2013)

Why distilled water? isn't tap water good? We use milk, beer, coconut milk, wine, fruit juce, tea, all kind of infusions,... Why not tap water?


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## Lindy (Oct 12, 2013)

In my oh so humble opinion  tapwater is fine.  I live on the side of a mountain with really hard water, I use nothing but tap water for soap and save distilled for lotions and creams. I have never had a problem.....


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## falldowngobump (Oct 12, 2013)

I have well water, and I'm lucky that it's very soft and pure.  I make soap with tap water all the time with no problems.  Go for it!


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## kazmi (Oct 12, 2013)

I think if you have well water that may be better than using tap water in the USA.  Our city tap water has fluoride in it which I've read could impact your soap.  I've never tried it so I can't swear by it though.


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## Soapsense (Oct 12, 2013)

Hmmm I have well water, I think I will try it after this jug is gone. I just always read that you should use distilled.  And it's cheap enough


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## Hazel (Oct 12, 2013)

I use distilled just because I don't trust our city's water supply. However, I may switch to tap once the new water plant is completed.


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## Pepsi Girl (Oct 12, 2013)

LOL I was just answering the question! But as so many have said, why distilled ?  I never buy water either however I also have well water.


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## sososo (Oct 13, 2013)

Could someone say '_I used this combinaition of oils with distiled water and the same combination with tap water and the results was different_'?


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## rjalex (Oct 13, 2013)

FWIW I live in Rome which is known for it's very hard water but also very good to drink (no chlorine etc.). I did my first two batches with it and so far everything seems to be aok. I would be more wary of "distilled" water living for god knows how long in plastic jugs with the potential of chemical contamination (did you ever taste distilled coming from plastic bottles ?).


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## DeeAnna (Oct 13, 2013)

Tap or well water that is perfectly safe to drink can contain calcium and magnesium and other chemical impurities. These chemicals can affect the quality of your soap in ways that might not be ideal. Metallic contamination can trigger DOS (rancidity). Calcium and magnesium will react with the fats to make their own insoluble soaps -- aka "hard water scum". The impurities in tap water can vary with the season, the source of the water (for example, big cities often use water from rivers supplemented by water from wells), the type of pipes used to deliver the water, and the type of water purification treatment.

There's no rule that one MUST use distilled ... if tap water works for you, it works. But if you have odd problems pop up, don't rule out that your tap water might be a culprit. I prefer distilled because I prefer to do my chemistry as an engineer or chemist would do it, since that is my professional background. If I didn't have access to distilled, I'd use filtered rainwater instead. 

As long as distilled water kept in a chemically-inert, tightly closed container in a clean environment, it will be fine -- your goal is to simply maintain the chemical purity of the water. There are two reasons why distilled water doesn't taste especially good. One is there are no dissolved minerals to give the water a "good" taste. The other is there is no dissolved oxygen, which also enhances the taste of water.


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## sososo (Oct 13, 2013)

DeeAnna said:


> Tap or well water that is perfectly safe to drink can contain calcium and magnesium and other chemical impurities.


I think that milk contains much more calcium than tap water. 
Also, don't you think that banana puree contains more magnesium than any tap or well water? 
And the beer? I think that they don't use distiled water in beer.

And we use milk, banana and beer in our soap...


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## DeeAnna (Oct 14, 2013)

I have made it really clear that I think people should use tap water if it works for them. I've offered a respectful comment about the reasons why I choose to use distilled water instead. Moving on....


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## shunt2011 (Oct 14, 2013)

I too choose to use distilled water.  Don't want to take the risk of something funky going on in my soap.  Sometimes I have enough probelms with it (quick trace, oils seeping, overheating etc...).


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## sososo (Oct 14, 2013)

DeeAnna said:


> I've offered a respectful comment....


Hope that my answer was also respectful.


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## Hazel (Oct 14, 2013)

I think you've both respectfully expressed your opinions. 

JMO, but I'm more concerned with other things besides a few minerals. A year or so ago, my city issued water alerts several times and told people not to drink the water without boiling it for at least 10 minutes. Not me...uh uh...I went and bought 5 gal containers for consumption. I didn't even trust boiling it.

I'm sure there is more info on the safety of tap water but I thought this was an interesting article. http://www.nrdc.org/water/drinking/uscities.asp


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## camillehabawel (Jan 24, 2014)

The problem with not using distilled water is that undistilled water, specifically TAP, contains free metals and different elements that affect your final soap. 
What happens?
DOS (Dreaded Orange Spots) You wouldn't want this on your soap. You can use tap water and add a cheating agent that removes these free metals in unpurified water by adding a chemical called EDTA. EDTA actually reduces soap scum too. 

Pls use distilled.


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## shunt2011 (Jan 24, 2014)

Just thought I'd bring to your attention that a couple of these posts are  3+ months old.  Just in case you didn't notice.   Welcome to the board.  also, I've used tap water and never had an issue in 3+ years.  I do use distilled or filtered too.


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## Lindy (Jan 24, 2014)

camillehabawel said:


> The problem with not using distilled water is that undistilled water, specifically TAP, contains free metals and different elements that affect your final soap.
> What happens?
> DOS (Dreaded Orange Spots) You wouldn't want this on your soap. You can use tap water and add a cheating agent that removes these free metals in unpurified water by adding a chemical called EDTA. EDTA actually reduces soap scum too.
> 
> Pls use distilled.


 
 Actually that is not true at all.  I live on the side of a mountain with a lot of minerals in our water.  I use nothing but tap water for water, well except when I use sea water, and I do not get DOS.  

 This is one of those myths people have started in recent years and there is no basis in truth to it.


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## dryalligator (Jan 24, 2014)

I use a Brita. For those who don't know, it a pitcher with a charcoal filter in it. I keep 2 filled at all times. Ones for soap and ones for drinking. They know not to leave an empty pitcher in the fridge!!!


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## Hazel (Jan 24, 2014)

camillehabawel said:


> add a cheating agent



It's chelating agent.


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## xyxoxy (Jan 25, 2014)

Lindy said:


> Actually that is not true at all.  I live on the side of a mountain with a lot of minerals in our water.  I use nothing but tap water for water, well except when I use sea water, and I do not get DOS.
> 
> This is one of those myths people have started in recent years and there is no basis in truth to it.



Totally agree....
Using crappy oils and not formulating your recipes properly causes DOS. A few minerals in your water never hurt anyone.


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## Dennis (Jan 25, 2014)

This probably isn't completely related, but there are so many water myths out there I couldn't help it.  Granted, conditions vary from region to region, but standards are standards as set by the feds and they can really ask tough questions when doing inspections and checking records.  
Any time there is a break in a water line a boil water notice is required by state department of environmental protection for the affected area.  Water quality testing is done twice daily to insure there is no contamination in the supply.  When results are complete and shown to meet state and federal standards, the boil water notice is lifted.  This is routine practice in my state and may be in yours.  Boil water notices should not instill fear, they are temporary until testing is complete.  I would be more concerned about water lines being repaired and no testing being required.  
I guess all of that means don't be freaked out by boil water notices.  Water lines break and repairs are made.  
I worked in water reclamation for umpteen years and the lovely but mysterious far far eastern sometimes soaping assistant, mother of my children is still a middle management minion in a water quality laboratory.  We generally ignore the notices and go about our business.  That's how uncommon bad test results are.
The only time I use other than tap water is when I travel.  I use bottled spring water to make coffee because you never know how that water in the campground is going to taste.  :shock:


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## Hazel (Jan 25, 2014)

These weren't for breaks in the water lines. These notifications were made because of something (I don't remember what) was found while testing. We received automated phone calls from the city explaining what it was and to boil water until further notice. Allegedly, the new water plant is to be built this year. Just have to wait and see...

I don't have a problem with using tap because I have supplemented with it when I'm low on distilled. I just prefer to use distilled. Actually, I prefer to use beer but someone gets grumpy if I swipe too many of his beers. :roll:


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## smeetree (Jan 25, 2014)

Distilled will give your soap a slightly higher pH. This is because it absorbs CO2 molecules from the air. You could remineralize it with a good sea salt (i.e. celtic sea salt is high in minerals), but the pH will likely remain low. This would require ionization to fix. On the other hand, distilled water will guarantee no contaminants in your soap. I've made soap with both distilled and tap and either is fine. It's just how far you want to take your control over the bar.


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## Dennis (Jan 25, 2014)

Hazel said:


> Actually, I prefer to use beer but someone gets grumpy if I swipe too many of his beers. :roll:



Umm, to make soap or otherwise?


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## Hazel (Jan 25, 2014)

To make soap. The vodka is mine. 

Confession: I haven't drunk any vodka in a long time. I've been using it for soap, too. I do occasionally drink a few ounces of wine...and then use the rest for soap. Hmm...I'm seeing a behavioral pattern here. I may need an intervention.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 25, 2014)

If you don't get DOS from using your local tap water, that's very good news for you and your soaps. Don't change a thing -- if it ain't broke, don't fix it. 

On the other hand, trace metals in water can and do trigger rancidity in free fats. This is fact, not myth. If a person is using tap water for soap making and cannot solve ongoing problems with DOS, it might be a good idea to try distilled water to check if the tap water might be the cause.

"...Metals such as copper, iron, manganese, and chromium increase rate of fat oxidation.... It is important to note that water with trace metal is often a cause of
rancidity in food products...." http://gcca.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/RancidityAntioxidants.pdf‎

"...Metals in just trace amounts are recognized as the predominant pro-oxidant materials encountered in commercial fats and oils. It is estimated that copper or iron at concentrations of less than 1 ppm can cause very serious reduction of fat or oil stability. The problem is magnified by free fatty acids which act to solubilize metals in fat or oil...." http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02682653

"...it was soon recognized that some agent was needed to counteract the harmful effects of metallic ions commonly encountered in most food fats and oils. These metals, such as iron and copper, were soon recognized as powerful catalysts of fat oxidation..." http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02582481


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## Dennis (Jan 25, 2014)

Hazel said:


> To make soap. The vodka is mine.
> 
> Confession: I haven't drunk any vodka in a long time. I've been using it for soap, too. I do occasionally drink a few ounces of wine...and then use the rest for soap. Hmm...I'm seeing a behavioral pattern here. I may need an intervention.



Oh Boy, an intervention!  Will there be (ahem) refreshments?


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## Hazel (Jan 25, 2014)

Only if you bring your own; otherwise, I can offer you distilled water.


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## camillehabawel (Jan 27, 2014)

To Lindy
Then maybe you should question Dr. Kevin Dunn's research about not usin distilled water. Based on his book, he tells the readers to "Avoid using undistilled water as these have minerals that lead to DOS".  Then maybe you should create your own research and contradict the Dr's findings.  Pls read his book "Scientific Soapmaking" authored by him. It is not a myth  Read to beleve


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## Lin (Jan 27, 2014)

I prefer to use distilled water for consistent results, since tap water is not as consistent. Same as DeeAnna with scientific background you want to limit the variables that can effect your results (soap). So with water, I go for distilled. I am curious about what iodized salt does in a salt bar though since I haven't gotten that answered yet..


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## DeeAnna (Jan 27, 2014)

"... Then maybe you should create your own research and contradict the Dr's findings...."

To my knowledge, Kevin Dunn has not presented any experimental findings on the specific matter of water quality for soapmaking, so he has no research for anyone to contradict or to support. 

The bottom line is that many people do use tap water for their soap and don't have problems. That's a given fact that I have no problem with. I can understand why someone with that experience would think it's a waste of time and money to switch to distilled. 

But when a soap maker is having unusual problems, I don't think it makes sense to ignore the possibility that the water or water based liquids may be adding trace metals or other contaminants that may affect the quality of the soap.

Can we all agree to disagree? I think this thread is starting to morph into a wrangle, not a discussion.


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## Lindy (Jan 28, 2014)

camillehabawel said:


> To Lindy
> Then maybe you should question Dr. Kevin Dunn's research about not usin distilled water. Based on his book, he tells the readers to "Avoid using undistilled water as these have minerals that lead to DOS". Then maybe you should create your own research and contradict the Dr's findings.  Pls read his book "Scientific Soapmaking" authored by him. It is not a myth  Read to beleve



Dr. Bronner does not teach soapmaking so any comments made by him are going to be to promote his brand. End of story.

 I've been making soap for 6 years and selling for 5.  I have never, ever used distilled water for soap and I have only had DOS once and it was because of too much heat where the soap was being stored on the way to a show.


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## MagicalMysterySoap (Jan 28, 2014)

Lindy said:


> Dr. Bronner does not teach soapmaking so any comments made by him are going to be to promote his brand. End of story.
> 
> I've been making soap for 6 years and selling for 5.  I have never, ever used distilled water for soap and I have only had DOS once and it was because of too much heat where the soap was being stored on the way to a show.



Dr. Bronners?  Do you mean Dr. Kevin Dunn?  I see no mention of bronners from the person you quoted...


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## PinkCupcake (Jan 28, 2014)

I only use distilled water. It's cheap, and I don't see any reason to take chances by using tap water. Maybe if distilled water were expensive, or a lot of trouble, I might try tap water, but I just don't trust my tap water.


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## Neve (Jan 28, 2014)

I can't drink tap water - not anywhere. I have to drink the filtered water from the fridge. This filtered water is what I use in my soaps. I assume it removes these metal contaminants. 

We know when it's time to change the filter - when I get day after day of unexplained stomach pains. Capilano water caused it, Alberta mountain water causes it and Australian water caused it. I haven't risked it in my soap but filtering it hasn't given me any problem so far. I was going to buy distilled last night anyway but when I saw how busy the supermarket was I just couldn't be bothered.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 28, 2014)

A high quality water filter won't produce water that is distilled quality, but it will remove some types of metals, and that is a big step in the right direction, Neve. 

Read the box on the filter cartridges and see if it is NSA rated to remove lead (NSA rating is used for products sold in the US -- I don't know what the equivalent would be in other countries). I think Pur is one brand that is designed for that level of filtration.


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## Neve (Jan 28, 2014)

Cool. We use the big ones in the fridge door. I do plan on buying distilled water this week because I am hoping it will prevent soda ash. My oldest bar is only four months no sign of DOS.


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## Neve (Jan 28, 2014)

Hubby just pulled it out. Yes it's NSF certified.


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## Lindy (Jan 28, 2014)

Argh I somehow interpreted Kevin Dunn into Bronner.  Don't quite know how I did that & I apologize. :lolno:


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## Neve (Jan 28, 2014)

Must be something in the water 




Lindy said:


> Argh I somehow interpreted Kevin Dunn into Bronner.  Don't quite know how I did that & I apologize. :lolno:


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## Lindy (Jan 28, 2014)

Roflmao!


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## Hazel (Jan 29, 2014)

Neve said:


> Must be something in the water



Made me laugh, too.


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## Pepsi Girl (Jan 29, 2014)

Neve said:


> Must be something in the water



Good One Neve!


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