# Shampoo bar questions?



## SoulShine (Mar 11, 2021)

Can anyone direct me with a link or a book to more information making the shampoo bars that look hot processed and usually made into a disc?
I make an all plant oils and lye based "shampoo bar" in the shape of just a regular bar of soap. I know the ingredients   coming through the cp don`t really retain those benefits.
I`ve read some on the syndet bars,but that is using detergents...am I correct? I wonder what the benefits of that is. 
I just can`t find much info...or any answers as to why they look hot processed.
I hope this makes sense. Thanks for any feedback.
Sharon


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## KiwiMoose (Mar 11, 2021)

Have a look at my old thread here:
Syndet Shampoo Bar Trials
Essentially the thought is that lye-based soap used as shampoo had to high a pH for hair (which is about 3.5) so syndet bars are used as they can achieve a lower pH than soap.


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## justjacqui (Mar 11, 2021)

Syndet is short for "synthetic detergent". Many of the synthetic detergents (surfactants) that you can use are derived from plant sources so not entirely synthetic.

As KiwiMoose mentioned the advantage of surfactants is being able to adjust the bars to a hair friendly pH. This cannot be done with soaps.

I would recommend checking out Swiftcraftymonkey's books and blog (Blog – Point of Interest) (Basic Shampoo Bar Formula) or Humblebee and Me (How to Make Shampoo - Humblebee & Me) as a good starting point for basic shampoo bar formulations. 

Here is a hot pour formula from Colonial Chemicals (Hot Pour Moisturizing Shampoo Bar)

Hope this helps.


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## AliOop (Mar 11, 2021)

I bought a syndet shampoo bar recipe from DIY Bath & Body on Etsy. I also got their conditioner bar recipe. Their listing discloses the ingredients you will need before you purchase the recipe, and after you purchase it, the instructions are fairly straightforward to follow. They also tell you what substitutions and changes you might consider making for different hair types: dry, oily, etc.  I pretty much followed their recipe with a few tweaks, and it turned out great. I've sent tester bars to a few folks who love them, as well.

I also have a $1 subscription to SwiftyCraftyMonkey, and I have looked at her recipes and explanations, too. Unfortunately, for me, the blog format is too scattered for me to follow along. I end up with tons of pages open, and no clear direction on how to make a recipe with the ingredients that I want. But if you are able to work through that, there is a TON of information available even at the $1 subscription level. You can quit any time you want, too, so it is not a big commitment.


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## SoulShine (Mar 12, 2021)

thank you for your responses. I`ve made my own "shampoo bar" for years..cp. My husband swears by it...it dries my hair. I will research all the info provided..but for the sake of instant gratification...lol...Aree the snydet bars hp? Is that how they get that rough look?


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## Kcryss (Mar 12, 2021)

The syndet bars do not use lye so they are technically neither hp or cp. To make them into bars most of the ingredients are dry, so the mixture has to be hand pressed into molds.  



justjacqui said:


> Here is a hot pour formula from Colonial Chemicals (Hot Pour Moisturizing Shampoo Bar)



Wow, that's interesting. I hadn't come across this one yet. Thanks for sharing!


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## Misschief (Mar 12, 2021)

SoulShine said:


> thank you for your responses. I`ve made my own "shampoo bar" for years..cp. My husband swears by it...it dries my hair. I will research all the info provided..but for the sake of instant gratification...lol...Aree the snydet bars hp? Is that how they get that rough look?


Most of the ingredients are dry but they are melted together. The reason some of them look a little "rougher" is that one of the ingredients, SCI (Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate), comes in noodle form and often the noodles aren't completely melted. You could also use a powder, which would give the bars a much smoother look.

I've been using the syndet recipe AlieOop mentioned for over two years and my hair has never looked or felt better.


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## SoulShine (Mar 13, 2021)

Kcryss said:


> The syndet bars do not use lye so they are technically neither hp or cp. To make them into bars most of the ingredients are dry, so the mixture has to be hand pressed into molds.


well that explains a lot! Thank you.


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## GemstonePony (Mar 13, 2021)

I use SCI noodles but melt them down for my bars. It takes more time, but it's do-able, and I don't have to deal with SCI powder.


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## Quanta (Mar 13, 2021)

SoulShine said:


> well that explains a lot! Thank you.


I'd like to mention that although a lot of people leave their SCI noodles intact or only partially melted, it's important that you make sure they are completely melted. Otherwise the SCI won't be incorporated properly in the mixture and your pH may be off. Also the bar may not dissolve/be used up uniformly enough.

People leave the SCI like that because they like the way it looks, but wouldn't you rather have a bar that works great? I would. I use the powder for mine because it dissolves into the cocamidopropyl betaine faster than the noodles. Although I did recently order some noodles just to compare.


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## Misschief (Mar 13, 2021)

Quanta said:


> I'd like to mention that although a lot of people leave their SCI noodles intact or only partially melted, it's important that you make sure they are completely melted. Otherwise the SCI won't be incorporated properly in the mixture and your pH may be off. Also the bar may not dissolve/be used up uniformly enough.
> 
> People leave the SCI like that because they like the way it looks, but wouldn't you rather have a bar that works great? I would. I use the powder for mine because it dissolves into the cocamidopropyl betaine faster than the noodles. Although I did recently order some noodles just to compare.


I beg to differ. When you're using the bar, even if the SCI noodles are not fully melted, you still get the benefit of the other ingredients as you're not just wetting the SCI noodles. I've noticed no difference at all in performance between bars with SCI powder or SCI noodles (not fully melted). Both work equally well. It's more important to make sure that your mix is melted *enough to form it into a bar* rather than to fully melt the SCI noodles. If it isn't melted enough, it will fall apart much more quickly.


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## Quanta (Mar 13, 2021)

Misschief said:


> I beg to differ. When you're using the bar, even if the SCI noodles are not fully melted, you still get the benefit of the other ingredients as you're not just wetting the SCI noodles. I've noticed no difference at all in performance between bars with SCI powder or SCI noodles (not fully melted). Both work equally well.


I'm going by the information from swiftcraftymonkey. She gives a better explanation than I did, but the way she explains it makes a lot of sense. She has made a lot more shampoo than I have, and she understands the science of it better than most of us. I'll stick to her advice.


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## SoulShine (Mar 13, 2021)

well thanks for the explanations, after reading the techniques and ingredients I guess I won`t be making shampoo bars. It seems some questionable chemicals are needed. Maybe I`ll just try to HP and squish it into a puck shape.


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## Quanta (Mar 13, 2021)

SoulShine said:


> well thanks for the explanations, after reading the techniques and ingredients I guess I won`t be making shampoo bars. It seems some questionable chemicals are needed. Maybe I`ll just try to HP and squish it into a puck shape.


What ingredients are you referring to as "questionable chemicals"? 

Any kind of soap on hair is much _much_ harsher than a properly formulated syndet bar. You can usually substitute ingredients you don't like in a syndet bar, whereas you can never re-formulate a soap to make it not be harsh on hair.

Due to the pH, the type of damage soap does to hair is similar to getting a perm or using permanent dye, except it's much more frequent. In contrast, a syndet bar is extremely gentle, and can be formulated to be so gentle that it removes very little of the natural oils from your hair and scalp, if that is what you need. 

If you tell us what shampoo bar ingredients you don't like, maybe someone here will have a suggestion for you to try.


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## SoulShine (Mar 13, 2021)

Quanta said:


> What ingredients are you referring to as "questionable chemicals"?
> 
> Any kind of soap on hair is much _much_ harsher than a properly formulated syndet bar. You can usually substitute ingredients you don't like in a syndet bar, whereas you can never re-formulate a soap to make it not be harsh on hair.
> 
> ...


I am trying to stick to "all natural" . The SCI noodles or powder are apparently what gives the shampoo bars that seem to be so popular now the "look" I was trying to achieve.


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## msunnerstood (Mar 13, 2021)

SoulShine said:


> I am trying to stick to "all natural" . The SCI noodles or powder are apparently what gives the shampoo bars that seem to be so popular now the "look" I was trying to achieve.


You can use other surfactants that are derived from natural things like coconuts


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## Misschief (Mar 13, 2021)

From the New Directions description of SCI - This is one of the gentlest surfactants on the market and works well even in hard water. *Made from renewable coconut fatty acids and fully biodegradable,* it is gentle enough to use in products for babies and personal cleansers such as eye-makeup removers. Having little scent, it will not tend to trigger fragrance allergies


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## Quanta (Mar 13, 2021)

SoulShine said:


> I am trying to stick to "all natural" . The SCI noodles or powder are apparently what gives the shampoo bars that seem to be so popular now the "look" I was trying to achieve.


Just to clarify, you don't want to use SCI because you believe it isn't natural? It's just a surfactant that is derived from coconuts, the same way that any soap is a chemical that is derived from whatever oil you want to make it out of. You take part of a plant and react it with chemical substances, and you get things like SCI, or soap, or whatever, depending on the chemical you use on the plant matter and what part of the plant you use. Some of the new chemical substances you create that way have a high pH unsuitable for hair (like soap) and some of them have a low ph that works great for hair, like SCI.

And I want to make sure you know, just for safety's sake, that just because a chemical is natural, doesn't mean it's smart or safe to use it in a particular way. Take poison ivy for instance. Would you use poison ivy in a lotion? 

Conversely, just because a chemical is the result of a chemical reaction between a plant part and a chemical, doesn't mean it's dangerous. SCI has a fantastic track record for being safe to use and far, far gentler on hair than soap can ever be.



msunnerstood said:


> You can use other surfactants that are derived from natural things like coconuts


SCI is the first thing that I think of when someone says "surfactant derived from coconuts".


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## SoulShine (Mar 14, 2021)

I more closely looked into SCI, how and where it`s made. Thanks all for the heads up on a product I`d never heard of.


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## chrissyshuen (Mar 14, 2021)

Is there much difference using the press bars (SCI noodles) rather then the cold process? I have made the cold process shampoo bars and people seem to like them.


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## KiwiMoose (Mar 14, 2021)

chrissyshuen said:


> Is there much difference using the press bars (SCI noodles) rather then the cold process? I have made the cold process shampoo bars and people seem to like them.


Cold process is soap.  You're using soap as shampoo. Soap has a minimum pH of around 9-10.
Shampoo bars using SCI are actually true 'shampoo bars' and the goal is to use surfactants and other ingredients that are better for the hair and yield a lower pH (circa 4 - 6 depending on your recipe)


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## Kiti Williams (Mar 14, 2021)

Well, I really don't know what I am doing that makes my CP shampoo bars work so well for people.  One co-worker's hair was a frizzy mess from too much color changes.  Her hair was like straw and broke easily.  She asked to try my shampoo bar, as she couldn't screw it up any worse.  She was going to get her hair shaved off.  3 weeks of using my bar and her hair was silky, smooth, and much stronger.  I have had no one, none, have their hair damaged by my bars.  The biggest mess was hers, but others found a big positive difference with my shampoo bars.  I do not use any signet in my bars.


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## KiwiMoose (Mar 14, 2021)

Kiti Williams said:


> Well, I really don't know what I am doing that makes my CP shampoo bars work so well for people.  One co-worker's hair was a frizzy mess from too much color changes.  Her hair was like straw and broke easily.  She asked to try my shampoo bar, as she couldn't screw it up any worse.  She was going to get her hair shaved off.  3 weeks of using my bar and her hair was silky, smooth, and much stronger.  I have had no one, none, have their hair damaged by my bars.  The biggest mess was hers, but others found a big positive difference with my shampoo bars.  I do not use any signet in my bars.


Yes my friend uses soap-as-shampoo also and she really rates it.  The maker claims they are 'pH balanced' which sounds great to your average punter, but any soap maker knows that soap can't be any lower than about 9 before it ceases being soap. That said, they obviously work fine for her.  I've tried soap on my hair and it's just awful - I have thick, coarse hair and it just made it thicker and coarser.


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## Quanta (Mar 14, 2021)

Kiti Williams said:


> Well, I really don't know what I am doing that makes my CP shampoo bars work so well for people.  One co-worker's hair was a frizzy mess from too much color changes.  Her hair was like straw and broke easily.  She asked to try my shampoo bar, as she couldn't screw it up any worse.  She was going to get her hair shaved off.  3 weeks of using my bar and her hair was silky, smooth, and much stronger.  I have had no one, none, have their hair damaged by my bars.  The biggest mess was hers, but others found a big positive difference with my shampoo bars.  I do not use any signet in my bars.


To be honest, I think she'd notice an even bigger difference if she started using a syndet bar. Usually the damage is permanent though and you'll only notice a real difference in the newly grown hair that hasn't been damaged yet.

Using soap on hair, as I already pointed out, is doing the same kind of damage as hair dye. The way hair dye works is by using alkaline substances to force the cuticle open so the dye can get under it, and then washing it with acid to force it closed again. If your co-worker is using an acid rinse (a lot of people use apple cider vinegar) after washing with soap, then that would close the cuticle and her hair would seem smoother.

The whole point of using a syndet bar is to not force the cuticle open and closed every time you wash. That constant opening and closing leads to long-term damage (as your co-worker discovered by repeatedly dying her hair). Some people's hair is remarkably tolerant to abuse, and those people can use soap without the damage being so obvious, but even they could have even better hair if they used synthetic detergents. Just because someone's hair can take the abuse, doesn't mean they should abuse their hair.


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## shunt2011 (Mar 14, 2021)

chrissyshuen said:


> Is there much difference using the press bars (SCI noodles) rather then the cold process? I have made the cold process shampoo bars and people seem to like them.


Night and day between the two.  CP soap is soap not shampoo in my personal opinion.  I tried it years ago and it totally ruined my hair.  Went from shoulder length to just a bit longer than a pixie.   I don’t recommend it


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## chrissyshuen (Mar 14, 2021)

Kiti Williams said:


> Well, I really don't know what I am doing that makes my CP shampoo bars work so well for people.  One co-worker's hair was a frizzy mess from too much color changes.  Her hair was like straw and broke easily.  She asked to try my shampoo bar, as she couldn't screw it up any worse.  She was going to get her hair shaved off.  3 weeks of using my bar and her hair was silky, smooth, and much stronger.  I have had no one, none, have their hair damaged by my bars.  The biggest mess was hers, but others found a big positive difference with my shampoo bars.  I do not use any signet in my bars.


Do you mind sharing your recipe?


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## Kiti Williams (Mar 14, 2021)

chrissyshuen said:


> Do you mind sharing your recipe?



I will need to dig up my notebook.  I need to make more.  My DD has an allergic reaction to Lauryl Sulfate, makes her rash out to bleeding.  Mt bars don't do that, and her hair is thick and soft.


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## Quanta (Mar 14, 2021)

Kiti Williams said:


> I will need to dig up my notebook.  I need to make more.  My DD has an allergic reaction to Lauryl Sulfate, makes her rash out to bleeding.  Mt bars don't do that, and her hair is thick and soft.


How did you narrow down her reaction to that specific ingredient? Did her dermatologist do a patch test?

ETA: Just so you know, I've never even seen a syndet bar recipe that had Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in it. If you've verified that's what she's allergic to, you don't need to fear syndet bars.


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## Kiti Williams (Mar 14, 2021)

Quanta said:


> How did you narrow down her reaction to that specific ingredient? Did her dermatologist do a patch test?
> 
> ETA: Just so you know, I've never even seen a syndet bar recipe that had Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in it. If you've verified that's what she's allergic to, you don't need to fear syndet bars.



Yes, her Dermatologist found out what was going on.  She is allergic to tree pollens in the maple genis, latex, and lauryl Sulfate.  The LS caused a burn as big as an orange on her back.  It took out the 4 surrounding scratches.  The reaction was placed under control in 2 min from them doing the scratch.  Her doctor said she has never seen this kind of immediate reaction.  They did a blood test first, them went to things in shampoo, this was not a standard test ingredient.  Poor kid had a big gauze bandage on her back for 3 weeks.  Not much scaring, thank heaven.


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## Quanta (Mar 14, 2021)

Kiti Williams said:


> Yes, her Dermatologist found out what was going on.  She is allergic to tree pollens in the maple genis, latex, and lauryl Sulfate.  The LS caused a burn as big as an orange on her back.  It took out the 4 surrounding scratches.  The reaction was placed under control in 2 min from them doing the scratch.  Her doctor said she has never seen this kind of immediate reaction.  They did a blood test first, them went to things in shampoo, this was not a standard test ingredient.  Poor kid had a big gauze bandage on her back for 3 weeks.  Not much scaring, thank heaven.


Five and a half months ago, I had a patch test done and there is still an irritated red square on my back from the gold patch. Fortunately, I've never seen gold in shampoo. On the same patch test though was formaldehyde releaser type preservatives, and it turns out I am allergic to those. Formaldehyde releasers are common in paraben-free skin care products so I have to be careful. That's one reason I like making my own skin care products.

I do still think that you don't have to resort to using soap on your daughter's hair. Syndet bars are extremely versatile and can be formulated with allergies in mind. Did the dermatologist give you a list of other related ingredients your daughter would be allergic to based on the patch test results?


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## KiwiMoose (Mar 15, 2021)

Quanta said:


> ETA: Just so you know, I've never even seen a syndet bar recipe that had Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in it. If you've verified that's what she's allergic to, you don't need to fear syndet bars.


Lush still use it in their shampoo bars.


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## Kiti Williams (Mar 15, 2021)

Quanta said:


> Five and a half months ago, I had a patch test done and there is still an irritated red square on my back from the gold patch. Fortunately, I've never seen gold in shampoo. On the same patch test though was formaldehyde releaser type preservatives, and it turns out I am allergic to those. Formaldehyde releasers are common in paraben-free skin care products so I have to be careful. That's one reason I like making my own skin care products.
> 
> I do still think that you don't have to resort to using soap on your daughter's hair. Syndet bars are extremely versatile and can be formulated with allergies in mind. Did the dermatologist give you a list of other related ingredients your daughter would be allergic to based on the patch test results?




  My daughter is in her 30's now, and we formulate most of her skin care products.  Yes, her dermatologist gave me a list of very long names for the related ingredients.  I found a lot of them in the soaps and shampoos we used.  I make my own laundry soap mix, because a bunch of those have the same junk in them.  We have had to un-junk our lives, because my Granddaughter has the same sensitivities as her Aunt.  2 out of the 5 in my family are allergic.  I am developing a few allergies myself, but to medical ingredients!


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## Sharon Patterson (Mar 15, 2021)

chrissyshuen said:


> Is there much difference using the press bars (SCI noodles) rather then the cold process? I have made the cold process shampoo bars and people seem to like them.


Soap is not good for the hair.  The pH from soap is around 7.0, however, the pH of hair is around 4.5 to 5.5.  This is why people use an apple cider vinegar rinse afterwards to help lower the pH of the soap.  Using soap as shampoo can ultimately damage the hair down the road.


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## Sharon Patterson (Mar 15, 2021)

SoulShine said:


> I am trying to stick to "all natural" . The SCI noodles or powder are apparently what gives the shampoo bars that seem to be so popular now the "look" I was trying to achieve.


I make a syndet bar with a small amount of SCI powder but also include Ayurvedic herbs, some of which are natural surfactants like Shikaki and AMLA as well as Aritha (soapnuts)


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## Kiti Williams (Mar 15, 2021)

Sharon Patterson said:


> Soap is not good for the hair.  The pH from soap is around 7.0, however, the pH of hair is around 4.5 to 5.5.  This is why people use an apple cider vinegar rinse afterwards to help lower the pH of the soap.  Using soap as shampoo can ultimately damage the hair down the road.




OK, so when?  4 years later my hair is much thicker and quiet nice.  No more excess dandruff and the greasiness is gone.


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## Quanta (Mar 15, 2021)

KiwiMoose said:


> Lush still use it in their shampoo bars.


The more I hear about Lush, the more I am convinced their formulators have no idea what they're doing.
I was going to start ranting, but I think I'll just leave it at that, lol.



Kiti Williams said:


> My daughter is in her 30's now, and we formulate most of her skin care products.  Yes, her dermatologist gave me a list of very long names for the related ingredients.  I found a lot of them in the soaps and shampoos we used.  I make my own laundry soap mix, because a bunch of those have the same junk in them.  We have had to un-junk our lives, because my Granddaughter has the same sensitivities as her Aunt.  2 out of the 5 in my family are allergic.  I am developing a few allergies myself, but to medical ingredients!


Did the dermatologist say that she just develops allergies easily? Some people do. If that's the case, then I would have a chat with her dermatologist and see if there are any surfactants she isn't likely to develop an allergy to, or strategies for preventing allergies developing (like rotating products). After that, if you want, maybe I could help you come up with a product formula she can use as a shampoo.
If the doctor recommends she not use any synthetic surfactants at all, then I guess she's stuck having to use soap on her hair. Soap is great as a body wash though so she will want to keep using it for that even if we figure out a shampoo for her.

And I wouldn't call ingredients "junk" just because a family member is allergic. Some people's immune systems malfunction sometimes, that's all. Usually, there is nothing wrong with the ingredient itself. When I had my environmental allergy testing done, I tested either severely or moderately allergic to literally _everything_ on the test, with the sole exception of horses. It was a pretty comprehensive test, too, and included every local pollen, mold, animals, etc.. So I know about allergies. I totally feel for your family and I'm sorry you have to go through that.



Sharon Patterson said:


> Soap is not good for the hair.  The pH from soap is around 7.0, however, the pH of hair is around 4.5 to 5.5.  This is why people use an apple cider vinegar rinse afterwards to help lower the pH of the soap.  Using soap as shampoo can ultimately damage the hair down the road.


The minimum pH of soap is 9. If you get much lower than that, it stops being soap. Paper pH test strips don't work for soap and will always show a lower pH than what it actually is.



Kiti Williams said:


> OK, so when?  4 years later my hair is much thicker and quiet nice.  No more excess dandruff and the greasiness is gone.


Those are effects on your scalp, not the hair shaft itself. What we're discussing is damage to the hair shaft. Your scalp is skin, and almost no one disputes that soap is good for skin. And like I said in a previous post, if you need a shampoo that removes very little of the natural oil, you can do that with a syndet bar. You can probably make it remove even less oil than soap does. Removing too much oil when you wash is what triggers your scalp to start producing more oil than what's really needed, making your hair greasy and wreaking all kinds of havoc.


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## Sharon Patterson (Mar 15, 2021)

Kiti Williams said:


> OK, so when?  4 years later my hair is much thicker and quiet nice.  No more excess dandruff and the greasiness is gone.


Okay.  Just sharing what I'm sharing.  If it is working for you great.  I sell my products and would not want to take a chance on damaging anyone's hair based on pH.


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## Quanta (Mar 15, 2021)

Sharon Patterson said:


> Okay.  Just sharing what I'm sharing.  If it is working for you great.  I sell my products and would not want to take a chance on damaging anyone's hair based on pH.


This is important to know, especially if you sell. People have been sued for selling soap as shampoo, after the product was found to be damaging to people's hair.


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## Kiti Williams (Mar 15, 2021)

>Did the dermatologist say that she just develops allergies easily? Some people do. If that's the case, then I would have a chat with her dermatologist and see if there are any surfactants she isn't likely to develop an allergy to, or strategies for preventing allergies developing (like rotating products). After that, if you want, maybe I could help you come up with a product formula she can use as a shampoo.
If the doctor recommends she not use any synthetic surfactants at all, then I guess she's stuck having to use soap on her hair. Soap is great as a body wash though so she will want to keep using it for that even if we figure out a shampoo for her.<

Yes she is allergic to the surfactants in the shampoos.  She rotates shampoos w/o LS in them, but they leave much to be desired.  They also are quite expensive and you can't get a trial size to test.


>I totally feel for your family and I'm sorry you have to go through that.<


Thank you.  I am the one developing allergies all over the place, so far.  (knock on wood)  I can't eat walnuts, can't use anything that contains steroids, have a latex and medical glue sensitivity and I can't take anything with valium in it.  



>Those are effects on your scalp, not the hair shaft itself. What we're discussing is damage to the hair shaft. Your scalp is skin, and almost no one disputes that soap is good for skin. And like I said in a previous post, if you need a shampoo that removes very little of the natural oil, you can do that with a syndet bar. You can probably make it remove even less oil than soap does. Removing too much oil when you wash is what triggers your scalp to start producing more oil than what's really needed, making your hair greasy and wreaking all kinds of havoc.<


I can sit on my hair, it is that long.  I got it trimmed back when I started with the shampoo bar.  My hair is not showing any damage to it except for slight split ends.  I know I superfatted the soap, and I use an ACV rinse.  This could be the discerning factor.


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## Quanta (Mar 16, 2021)

Kiti Williams said:


> Yes she is allergic to the surfactants in the shampoos.  She rotates shampoos w/o LS in them, but they leave much to be desired.  They also are quite expensive and you can't get a trial size to test.


Is this something she gets from the doctor? Would you mind posting either a link to it online somewhere, or a picture of the ingredient list on the bottle? I'd like to see if it would be possible for you to make it at home and make it better/cheaper than wherever you're getting it now. I hate it when people make an inferior product and then charge an arm and a leg for it because they know people don't have a choice.



> I can sit on my hair, it is that long.  I got it trimmed back when I started with the shampoo bar.  My hair is not showing any damage to it except for slight split ends.  I know I superfatted the soap, and I use an ACV rinse.  This could be the discerning factor.


I wish my hair grew that long. It grows to my waist and that's it. I lost the gene pool lottery and got my grandmother's genes. She was wearing a wig already in her early 30's. Very thin, very fine, and only grows so long. I have to take care of what hair I have because I don't have much of it.

I have never had split ends that I recall. If I ever did, it was probably back in high school when I had a perm. I actually had thick hair back then.

If you're going to insist on using soap on your hair, at least you're using the ACV rinse. I still don't like the idea of having to fix what soap does to your hair every time you wash it, but I don't think I'm going to change your mind.


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## Kiti Williams (Mar 16, 2021)

Quanta said:


> Is this something she gets from the doctor? Would you mind posting either a link to it online somewhere, or a picture of the ingredient list on the bottle? I'd like to see if it would be possible for you to make it at home and make it better/cheaper than wherever you're getting it now. I hate it when people make an inferior product and then charge an arm and a leg for it because they know people don't have a choice.
> 
> 
> I wish my hair grew that long. It grows to my waist and that's it. I lost the gene pool lottery and got my grandmother's genes. She was wearing a wig already in her early 30's. Very thin, very fine, and only grows so long. I have to take care of what hair I have because I don't have much of it.
> ...


 
 I will ask her for a bottle, or 2.  These are OTC products.  We can't afford to use the prescription ones the doctor recommends - way too expensive to play "Let's see if this one works".

I get the thick hair from my father and maternal Grandmother.  She had long wavy red hair, red red.  She didn't like women with long hair, said it pulled the face down.  The splits ends happen when wear is done to the tip of the hair.  It could be bad brushing habits, letting the hair hag down on clothing that is abrasive, or just because it has been there for 5 to 10 years.  Mine was due to bad brushing habits, which I have corrected.  The wear and tear from life is not much, as I wear it roped up on my head.  This last batch went from 1" long all over to it's current length of 39" in 5 years.  I can grow hair, and was donating it to Pantene for wigs.

Our water is on the acidic side, it will eat through copper pipes in 15 to 20 years.  We have a water softener that takes out the worst of it, maybe that is why the bars don't eat up the hair.


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## DMack (Mar 16, 2021)

Kiti Williams said:


> OK, so when?  4 years later my hair is much thicker and quiet nice.  No more excess dandruff and the greasiness is gone.


You may be one of the lucky few. I used a bar shampoo for about 2 hrs and I was so impressed I used it on my son’s hair too. This yr I noticed both our hair was breaking easily and has become uneven. Since stopping and changing back to liquid shampoo this has stopped, but it still has to grow out  I was very disappointed


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## Quanta (Mar 16, 2021)

DMack said:


> You may be one of the lucky few. I used a bar shampoo for about 2 hrs and I was so impressed I used it on my son’s hair too. This yr I noticed both our hair was breaking easily and has become uneven. Since stopping and changing back to liquid shampoo this has stopped, but it still has to grow out  I was very disappointed


That is most people's experience with soap-as-shampoo. That's why I am so careful to keep the pH of my homemade shampoo low enough for hair.


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## amd (Mar 26, 2021)

Kiti Williams said:


> I can sit on my hair, it is that long. I got it trimmed back when I started with the shampoo bar. My hair is not showing any damage to it except for slight split ends. I know I superfatted the soap, and I use an ACV rinse. This could be the discerning factor.


Out of curiosity, how often do you wash your hair? My daughter recently went from 33" (which she could tuck into her pants) to 18". She only washed her hair every 3rd day or so, as in addition to being very long it is also very thick and sturdy hair. Some people do tolerate using soap on their hair, and washing it less may even be to its benefit. I'm glad you have something that is working for you.


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## Kiti Williams (Apr 11, 2021)

amd said:


> Out of curiosity, how often do you wash your hair? My daughter recently went from 33" (which she could tuck into her pants) to 18". She only washed her hair every 3rd day or so, as in addition to being very long it is also very thick and sturdy hair. Some people do tolerate using soap on their hair, and washing it less may even be to its benefit. I'm glad you have something that is working for you.



I wash it once a week on average.  I don't get the hair slicks of oil like I do from commercial shampoos.  If I have worked out on my Trike, then it is every 3 days, because of sweat.


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