# Scents and Soaping



## Miz Jenny (Feb 2, 2014)

When I first started soaping, I liked floral scents and my soaps reflected that. I vowed to never make patchouli or lavender scented soap or anything musky. Now, I always have to have both patchouli eo and fo and lavender eo and fo in my stash. Also have to have vanilla, lemon, honey, orange, something musky, and coffee in my stash. I use them to build my scents, but rarely as a stand-alone. I've also listened to my customers and weighed likes and dislikes when planning my inventory. Don't be afraid to step out of your box... You might be surprised. I was.


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## cmzaha (Feb 2, 2014)

I really don't much care if I like a fragrance or not, I only care what my customers want.


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## kikajess (Feb 2, 2014)

For me, the scent of a soap is equally important to the quality of the soap, maybe even slightly more important. I am my only customer, and I like all sorts of scents: earthy, florals, fruits, vegetables, foods...almost anything, really. However, I'm _very picky_, and I'm finding the scent part of soaping to be the most frustrating. 

Problems I'm having:
1. The scent I ordered online smells terrible! I wish for a place I can go in town to smell them before I order them. Coffee and celery have  been the worst; unusable even.
2. The scent doesn't come through in the final soap
3. The scent is too strong 

I'm coming to the realization scents are what will take me the most experimentation to get right. One of my scent goals is a coconut lavender combination that blows my mind. I will keep working on it until I get it right!!!


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## jenneelk (Feb 3, 2014)

Yep.. Scents are very much experimentation.. Even reviews aren't trustworthy. 
I have done about 80 batches now and hardly ever does the scent end up as expected. I take lots of notes and even now realize that some I liked before have now changed some 5 months later.  
I've been on a soaping blah and missed the 'good scent' time with a few. They now smell weird.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 3, 2014)

My supplier is very good and will send me up to 5 scent samples per order, so I can always see how things smell in the bottle before buying.  Of course, the sample is too small to use in a batch so I would need to buy a bottle to see if it changes in a soap but that is of course nothing out of the ordinary.  I think I would always want a sample of an FO before buying - EO I think I'd be willing to take the chance as it is quite well balanced in the EU


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## Saponista (Feb 3, 2014)

I'm interested to know who your supplier is eff, do they ship all over Europe? It would be handy to try before you buy rather than buying a big lot of something that smells awful.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 3, 2014)

Saponista said:


> I'm interested to know who your supplier is eff, do they ship all over Europe? It would be handy to try before you buy rather than buying a big lot of something that smells awful.


 

It's http://www.waldehoe.at/ but they only ship to AT und DE


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## Saponista (Feb 3, 2014)

Thank you for the link anyway, what a shame. More companies should do that to get business.


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## seven (Feb 3, 2014)

cmzaha said:


> I really don't much care if I like a fragrance or not, I only care what my customers want.



totally true!

that said, my best selling scent is still lavender. i dunno why, but the women here like it so very much. it's like they cant get enuff of it. followed by rose, frangipani, ya know floral floral, lol


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 3, 2014)

+ to all who say it depends on what the customer wants!  We may not like a soap personally, but unless we're buying all of our stock then it doesn't matter what we like.  Give the people what they want.

Of course, it might be the case that the customer wants something that we really don't want to do which then makes one question if the right market is being targeted.


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## Miz Jenny (Feb 3, 2014)

Don't know why this turned into a brouhaha because I said I listen to my customers and weighed likes and dislikes when planning inventory. I should have been more succinct and said "their" likes and dislikes. I had several who asked about both patchouli and lavender so I added both. When I have several people to exclaim their dislike of a certain scents, I don't use it anymore. it costs me money to have a scent that only sells one or two bars.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 4, 2014)

Miz Jenny said:


> Don't know why this turned into a brouhaha because I said I listen to my customers and weighed likes and dislikes when planning inventory. I should have been more succinct and said "their" likes and dislikes. I had several who asked about both patchouli and lavender so I added both. When I have several people to exclaim their dislike of a certain scents, I don't use it anymore. it costs me money to have a scent that only sells one or two bars.


 
I think maybe we (at least I!) misunderstood the tone where you were saying how you said you vowed never to make certain things - which is a strange vow when people might well want it!


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## cmzaha (Feb 4, 2014)

Miz Jenny said:


> Don't know why this turned into a brouhaha because I said I listen to my customers and weighed likes and dislikes when planning inventory. I should have been more succinct and said "their" likes and dislikes. I had several who asked about both patchouli and lavender so I added both. When I have several people to exclaim their dislike of a certain scents, I don't use it anymore. it costs me money to have a scent that only sells one or two bars.


 
If you are referring to me, I was not turning it into anything, just making a comment. I have several good sellers that I hate and give me migraines when I make them but I still make them


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## nframe (Feb 4, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> It's http://www.waldehoe.at/ but they only ship to AT und DE



Hello,

I don't want to disagree with you but I contacted them a while ago and this is what they replied to me:

"Yes, we are happy to ship to the UK, but unfortunately our shop is not yet open for buyers outside of Austria and Germany.

So you have to order by mail and I will send a Paypal-invoice afterwards.
The shipping cost is € 11,80 for a small package and 16,80 for a large one. From a value of € 150,00 shipping is free."

So, although technically you are right, I am not wrong either!


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## Saponista (Feb 4, 2014)

Did you order from them nframe? I'm wondering if you'd get slapped with a massive customs duty bill. That's the only problem with ordering from abroad.


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## nframe (Feb 4, 2014)

Saponista said:


> Did you order from them nframe? I'm wondering if you'd get slapped with a massive customs duty bill. That's the only problem with ordering from abroad.



No, not yet although I intend to.  I don't think that you get custom duty bills for goods that come from the EU.  The only times that happened to me was when I ordered stuff from the United States.  It never happened with stuff from the EU.  Maybe we should do some enquiries before ordering.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 4, 2014)

Ah, that IS interesting - the blurb on their website indicates shipping only to DE and AT addresses, but clearly that's just a standard bit of info and they are willing to be flexible.  Can understand it, as they are a great supplier and really helpful I find!

I don't think you'll get customs, just a larger delivery cost


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## Saponista (Feb 4, 2014)

I guess it's in their interest to ship wherever as long as they can make a profit from it. I'll have to do a price comparison and see if they are cheaper even with the delivery charges.


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## shunt2011 (Feb 4, 2014)

I'm another one who really hates making some scents but my customers love them so making them I do.  Honeysuckle Rose is one I can't stand it makes my house reek of old lady..  But, it's a good seller, as is Lavender and Lilac, I'm not a floral person.  I've grown to love Patchouli though


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## Saponista (Feb 4, 2014)

I hate the florals too shunt, they remind me of old ladies but people seem to love them, my mum asked for honeysuckle too which was just awful. Peg on nose while adding it!!!!


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## Saponista (Feb 4, 2014)

Oddly I have always liked patchouli, can't see how people hate it so much!


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## seven (Feb 4, 2014)

i HATE honeysuckle! esp honeysuckle jasmine! i refused to make another batch with it as i can't stand the smell. i do not care how good a seller it is, i feel like throwing up by that scent. and it's such a strong scent. if i walk past by the curing rack the scent lingers on my nose for a long time. euuuwwww!


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## osso (Feb 4, 2014)

Also not a big floral fan. I really can't handle rose at all.


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## MzMolly65 (Feb 4, 2014)

I hope this doesn't derail the original intention of the thread but how is everyone getting their EO's to stick.  I've tried the cornstarch theory .. didn't work.  I've tried not letting it gel .. good results but still fades quickly and it's hard to keep things from not gelling so it's a tricky option.

My FO's are still smelling nice after weeks of sitting out curing but I really didn't want to have to use synthetics just to keep things strongly scented.

I'm disappointed that expensive EO's are evaporating away!!  All advice welcome.


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## coffeetime (Feb 4, 2014)

I CPOP and only use EOs not FOs and my scents stick just fine. It helps to wrap them at 4-6 weeks, and I cure them in breathable cardboard boxes. Are you adding at 3% ppo? Is it possible that the synthetics are so strong that they are drowning out the EOs?


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## MzMolly65 (Feb 4, 2014)

coffeetime said:


> Are you adding at 3% ppo? Is it possible that the synthetics are so strong that they are drowning out the EOs?



Yes, 3% .. and no.  The synthetics are not really strong, they're just still there to smell.  Even if I take the eo soaps out of the room the fo's are in I cannot smell them much anymore.  The smell is slightly stronger in shower but barely there when dry.


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## Saponista (Feb 4, 2014)

I find that adding organic matter to soap helps the eo's stick. My coffee ground soap with rosemary EO scent lasts for ages and grated orange zest seems to really bind sweet orange which is a tricky one. Lots of people use things like clay or orris root to bind scent. Adding a base note essential oil is also meant to help as it will still be around when all the volatile top notes have disappeared.


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## soap_rat (Feb 4, 2014)

Miz Jenny, I saw your main point as being that even scents we don't like can be built into a blend we like, which is great advice and something it took me time to learn, too!

Efficacious, I bet that even a tiny sample could be tested, if you have tiny molds, or silicone cupcake liners, or paper cups.  The sample is probably big enough to scent 1oz of soap?  Sometime when you're making a batch, just steal a few ounces to makes testers of each FO.  

MzMolly (we are becoming very formal here, aren't we, with Ms. and Gentleman and the like...I would like to be addressed as Lord Soap Rat, please...) I only use EOs, I scent at 3% or less of the oil weight, and the scents are strong for most EOs.  What EOs are you using, specifically?  (I do use HP sometimes for a more expensive EO)


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## green soap (Feb 4, 2014)

Many essential oils have relatively low flash points.  I have much better results with eo scent retention when I soap cooler and prevent high temperature gel.  This is particularly true of citrus, eucalyptus, rosemary, all of these EOs have very low flash points.  

The spice EOs will cause heating of the soap, even if you start cool and try soaping at room temperature.  However, those have much higher flashpoints and I have no issues with scent retention with 'spicy' EOs, even after they heat up the soap.  By spicy I mean cinnamon leaf, clove, cardamom, nutmeg....


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## paillo (Feb 4, 2014)

If it's an FO that I find doesn't stick well, I up the quantity to the manufacturer's max recommendation. And, heck, I've even gone over that at times, knowing that if I'm not super careful it will rice, seize or otherwise misbehave. Then I give it a good long cure. The non-stickers I've given up on - like coconut, in my experience.

I heard not long ago that as you age, and the cells turn over in your body over the years, that your sense of of smell can change dramatically (don't know if this is fact, but it makes sense to me). For many years I couldn't be in the same room with patchouli, and now I totally adore it. Hmmm, maybe I'm getting old? :roll:

Lord Soap Rat, I bow to your new moniker :grin:


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## Miz Jenny (Feb 4, 2014)

Well, if you're going to be Lord soap_rat, I'd like to be called ... oh, heck, I'm just Plain Ol' Jenny. BTW, patchouli mixed with sweet is wonderful in beer or hemp soap.


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## Miz Jenny (Feb 4, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> I think maybe we (at least I!) misunderstood the tone where you were saying how you said you vowed never to make certain things - which is a strange vow when people might well want it!



My point was one should listen to their customers and step out of their self-imposed boxes and I use both now because that's what a good percentage of my customers want. Just realized I have no florals except rose and English lavender so I will get a couple more to satisfy those customers who like sweet.

I am so swamped from mid-summer to mid-December that I only have time to read and no time to post anything constructive or informational. This post was my way of talking to new soapers who may one day sell. "Listen to your customers and set your personal preferences aside."

Jenny


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## MzMolly65 (Feb 4, 2014)

soap_rat said:


> What EOs are you using, specifically?  (I do use HP sometimes for a more expensive EO)



Well .. Lord Rat (I said that with a crisp British accent by the way) .. 

specifically I have in stock; lavender, tea tree, lemon grass (which sticks better than the others), litsea, vetiver, orange 5x, Brazilian Red Orange, eucalyptus, and patchouli and jasmine  which I haven't used yet because they're private stock and I'm saving them for some thing super special when I'm sure they'll stick.

I got the Jasmine in Thailand and it's pure .. cost me a pretty penny even when everything else was a tiny fraction of my normal budget at home.  I'm scared to waste it so I just open the bottle and sniff it once in a while.  ***ahhhh***


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## Miz Jenny (Feb 4, 2014)

I meant to say "patchouli and sweet orange." MzMolly, do you prefer orange 5x to sweet orange and why.


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## MzMolly65 (Feb 4, 2014)

Miz Jenny said:


> I meant to say "patchouli and sweet orange." MzMolly, do you prefer orange 5x to sweet orange and why.



I don't have a preference but to me they are distinctly different scents.  One is very much citrus while the other is a softer, riper citrus scent.  It's like standing in the grocery store with a Florida navel orange in one hand and a Japanese mandarin in the other.  

They're both awesome but it depends on your soap intent which one you choose.  I chose the 10x because people said it stuck but I don't find that it sticks any better than the Brazilian Red Orange.


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## Miz Jenny (Feb 5, 2014)

Thanks, MizMolly.


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## soap_rat (Feb 6, 2014)

I use a lot of those EOs and consider them "stickers," but I can't say for sure about eucalyptus, last time I used it was as an accent in a blend.  I have soap I lightly CPOPed that is mostly citrus, plus lemongrass and maybe palmarosa for stickiness, plus cornstarch for stickiness, and it's about 3 months old with good aroma.  I use 10x or 15x orange because it's supposed to stick better.  I haven't used the Brazilian orange.  

Lavender and tea tree, litsea, vetiver (strong stuff!) and patchouli all stick well for me (be warned, patchouli "grows," according to what I've read--you smell it more in the finished product than in the blend).  I take my oil weight, multiply it by .03, and that's my maximum EO weight. Is that what you do?  Some people will go higher but it's not recommended.  (And some EOs have chemicals that have limits for safe usage set by the IFRA and we have to use far less than 3%)


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