# Bad Advice You Have Read on the Net about Soapmaking



## Guest (Jul 1, 2009)

1. It is okay to use glass to mix your lye water and to make soap in . NOT


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## kittywings (Jul 1, 2009)

Really?  I use a big ugly glass vase that I got at the thrift store to mix my lye water... so far so good.  

Have you had something happen?


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## blue hill (Jul 1, 2009)

I do too...nothing yet...keeping my fingers crossed.


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## TessC (Jul 1, 2009)

"I don't ever weigh the ingredients, you just use a bottle/cup/tablespoon/etc of _______". Makes me crazy, seriously, use a frigging scale.


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## andreja (Jul 1, 2009)

With long exposure with glass lye forms sodium silicate and you get frosted glass, damaged glass. Not worth risking.


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## DeeDee (Jul 1, 2009)

Would a plastic gallon milk jug work?  I used my big glass measuring cup last time.  That thought did go through my mind about the glass shattering and lye going all over.  I washed a milk jug out thinking that I might try that next time.


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## zeoplum (Jul 1, 2009)

I mix mine in a 4 quart stainless steel pot (looks like a big bowl).  And then after I add it to the oils, I rinse it out realy quick with lots of cold water and set it aside in case I need to split my batch for coloring (either swirls or layers).   It costs a little more but was so worth the investment!

zeo


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## xyxoxy (Jul 1, 2009)

I use a heavy plastic 1 gallon Rubbermaid pitcher - well marked with warnings. 

It heats up a bit but never to the point where I've worried about it melting.

ETA: Bad advise I got from reading a Cavitch book before I started making soap. Not sure if this counts as bad advice or stupidity on my part - but I used one of her recipes as it was listed in the book (not knowing any better) and so my FIRST 3 batches of soap were 8 pounds each! I screwed up one wasting a lot of good oils. Not the best way to ease into soap making.


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## carebear (Jul 1, 2009)

Glass may break - unless it's tempered glass it's not made to withstand temperature shifts (lye heats the water up fast), and even the tempered glass isn't a good idea because 1) the lye does etch it and create miniscule weak spots, 2) stirring can do the same, 3) **** happens anyway.  I have read of several accounts where glass has suddenly broken.  Some are confident that it's ok anyway and continue to use glass.  To them I wish luck and hope they keep their children away and their health insurance policies in place.  And maybe they'll be ok.  For ME, in the equation of risk versus reward the scale is tipped to far to risk for me on this one.

Plastic milk jugs are kinda ok, but the plastic can get very soft from the heat of the lye so I don't recommend it.  Rubbermaid pitchers are good.  A cheap plastic pitcher from the dollar store works well.  I actually use the tall gladware containers from the grocery store because I make up one batch at a time.  And they have a nice lid.

Bad advice I've received?  About FOs - that you can test if an FO is "skin safe" by just using the stuff and if there is no rash you are good to go.  NOT.


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## BlueSky (Jul 1, 2009)

I have been mixing my lye solution in a glass bowl since I started soap making (which is very recent). I didn't even know there was a controversy. I guess I'll switch to stainless. :shock:


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## DeeDee (Jul 1, 2009)

I have a rubber maid 2 quart pitcher that I will use and scrap the milk jug idea.
Thank you!


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## mandolyn (Jul 1, 2009)

Safety First!

Mixing lye in glass is NOT recommended. Lye will etch even tempered glass & eventually weaken it. It might look fine, until you lift it up, then the bottom falls out or it seeps solution all over you.

There are many plastics that shouldn't be used either, because the lye will eat right through them. Plastic milk jugs for example. 

I use stainless steel. I always mix with the container sitting in the sink. If you're using plastic, you should be doing it that way in case it leaks. Better the lye/water solution goes down the drain than leaks on you, the counter top or the floor.

There's LOTS of bad info floating around the internet about soapmaking. There was a video showing the soapmaker pouring water into lye, for instance!!!! 

There are a plethora of bad recipes as well. That's why those of us who've been around a while keep chanting the mantra "Run every recipe throug a lye calculator - no matter where it came from."

It's also why we chant our other mantra, "Do lots of research before you do your first batch." We know, once you do all that research, you'll come back here all confused & full of questions, then we can give you the correct info.    Just kidding!


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2009)

I would say in addition to mandolyn's post , after you do your research ( take notes ) and find a forum you like and follow the advice given there . You will get tried and true information . You will also learn more tips and tricks on a forum.

Kitn


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## TessC (Jul 1, 2009)

The other really bad one I saw wasn't on a soap-related forum or site, but came from a lady on a pet-oriented forum who makes and sells small batches of goatmilk castile to people she knows.

 I'd just gotten through explaining to a couple of the forum members that I can't sell them soap due to a lack of product liability insurance, and she popped in with a bunch of "Oh, you only need liability insurance if you have an actual store, you can't get sued for stuff you sell over the internet." stuff. 

 Um....no? That's utterly and totally incorrect, and I seriously hope that she doesn't end up getting the everliving crap sued out of her over her soaps. She's not the only person I've seen who sort of dismisses insurance as a silly thing to get, and it bugs me that some bad legal advice gets passed around at times.


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## Inodoro Pereyra (Jul 1, 2009)

I mix my lye water in one of 2 containers. Either I use an empty lye container (the 2 lb "roebic crystal" that Lowe's used to sell), or an old coconut oil container (the "lou ana" from Wal Mart). They're sturdy, don't get too soft with the heat, and, so far, haven't shown any signs of wear.

About the bad advice, I actually got tons of bad, dishonest advice from a forum. It wasn't from a soapmaking forum, but the soapmaking section on a biodiesel forum. In there, there's a member who's regarded as the forum's "soap expert", who consistently gives people bad advise, and spreads false information just to sell his book. Fortunately, I've got his number way before I made my first batch, so I wasn't affected by his nonsense, but there are lots of members in that forum that still follow his words as gospel.
One of his favorite agendas is to promote some kind of a "turf war", between biodieselers and "traditionalists" (which would be us).


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2009)

I'm going to step out on a limb and say the bad advice I rec'd on the net was *not* to start selling.

I want to first qualify this opinion.  I think that as you start any hobby/enterprise that the only feasable way to assess your product is to get it out in the public.  Both giving away and selling pose the same liability issues.  I am not suggesting anyone sell or give away anything they have a reasonable belief is dangerous.

However, be it an ugly handknitted sweater, a tray of brownies, and uncomfortable handmade piece of jewlery...the only way to test the waters is to get your product out into the public.

I've been apart of alot of start up businesses...my daycares, I was a personal fitness trainer, sold insurance...and you are never all that great in any feild in the beginning.  Being from an impovershed community where people are so afraid to take an entrepuenurial risk, and where financing is almost non existant...the need to get some type of financial return on anything you have a passion for is important.

I just think the strict attitude on some forums discouraging some from starting to sell is just a lil heavy handed.  I'm very glad for the sales experience I acquired, it was the most important factor in my growth as a soap maker.


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## AshleyR (Jul 1, 2009)

I have come across a lot - especially on youtube. There is one lady in particular I watch on there who just started making soap a couple of months ago, opened a business already and is selling some of her first bars. She talks in her videos like she knows the ins and outs of soapmaking and I have caught her giving out misinformation a few times.

One thing she did not too long ago was put on thick rubber gloves to cut her soap over 24 hours later. She said that "all soap at this stage is still caustic so you MUST wear gloves to cut it". I never ever wear gloves to cut my soap, and it never has any zap after it's been in the mold and set up (after about 12 hrs). In this case she was just being overly safe, but it just irks me that she acts like she knows everything about soapmaking when I know she just started.

Anyway, rant over.  There are too many times I've heard/seen people give out misinformation to count...


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## carebear (Jul 1, 2009)

hers could have been caustic if she didn't gel it.  
but ALL soap is caustic at that stage?  bull cookies.

actually I think the worst advice I received was when people didn't provide constructive criticism but let me lead myself astray.


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## xyxoxy (Jul 1, 2009)

AshleyR said:
			
		

> I have come across a lot - especially on youtube.
> ... There are too many times I've heard/seen people give out misinformation to count...



I learned a lot watching a lady on Youtube when I first started... and most of what she said then has held up with what I've learned over time.

However I think I know the one you are talking about and yes... she makes me crazy! I think she mixes lye in a speghetti sauce jar with a wooden spoon (not to beat the dead horse about lye and glass). I mean she seems like a really fun person but it's a little reckless to be giving video lessons on something you have only just started.

Oh that reminds me... be sure to catch my youtube video on building a space shuttle out of items you can find in your home.


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## IrishLass (Jul 1, 2009)

-One of the things I have seen many times on the net that really gets my knickers in a twist is the claim that soaps made with animal fats are bad, or very substandard compared to all-veggie soaps.  :? 

-And also this knicker twister- 'Our soaps are not made with lye because lye is very caustic and soaps made from it are very bad for your skin.'  :twisted:  

IrishLass


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## AshleyR (Jul 1, 2009)

xyxoxy - I have loved watching Nancy Today on YT, and while she is not always safe and doesn't measure her stuff properly most of the time - she is a really nice, funny, and she doesn't give off the impression that she knows it all - rather the exact opposite. She is pretty free spirited. So, while some people pick on her, her soapmaking ways don't bother me as much as the other lady I watch. I've never seen this one mix lye in a glass jar so I don't know if we're talking about the same person, but I just wanted to let you know it wasn't Nancy I was talking about.


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## carebear (Jul 1, 2009)

Nancy Today makes me nauseous.  Seriously.
OMG.


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## Deda (Jul 2, 2009)

Hells Bells, Watching Nancy mix her oils and lye in chipped broken dirty dishes just about makes me sick.  I half expect to see a dead mouse on the counter.  Can you imagine the filth she lives in?


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2009)

I watched Nancy today before I made my first soap and learned a lot of what not to do. I think Nancy is a very free spirit and means no harm , but it does bother me that someone might think that is the way to make soap.

Kitn


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## carebear (Jul 2, 2009)

I don't believe she MEANS harm, but that doesn't mean she many not CAUSE harm if people do as she does.

And still, disgusting.  Did you see her video where her cat drags its but across the couch and she thinks it may be worms?


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## xyxoxy (Jul 2, 2009)

I wasn't sure so I just looked and I can safely say I have never seen Nancy Today (or any other day for that matter  ). So it wasn't her that I was thinking of. She does seem a little kooky though... but I like kooky.

I tried to find the lady I was thinking of... she was much younger but also not a know-it-all - just a little new to be selling and giving demonstrations.

I didn't see her but I found this guy who just throws in a bunch of oils at random and THEN calculates how much lye is needed to saponify it including a 5% superfat. THEN he adds shea butter for MORE superfat. So basically no planning or recipe. He also mixes everything in these (again) giant glass jars and (again) uses wooden spoons while his cat is walking around freely in the background  :evil: . His 2 ten minute videos skip the actual lye mixing and there's not even a peek at the soap in the mold let alone the finished product.

OK I need to stop looking at YT.  :shock:


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## kittywings (Jul 2, 2009)

Well... I AM Nancy Today and if you guys don't stop talking trash about me... I'm gonna rub my cat's butt worms on you!   :evil: 


(ok... eew, that was even a little too gross, even for me  )



(Not that I deleted it)  :wink:


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## kittywings (Jul 2, 2009)

xyxoxy said:
			
		

> He also mixes everything in these (again) giant glass jars and (again) uses wooden spoons while his cat is walking around freely in the background  :evil:



Well that's just GREAT!   There go my plans for my new cat hair soap!   :x 

I thought there was a market for it....


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2009)

I found youtube a great inspiration.  I like the african american trucker lady who makes soap to a hip hop beat, I like the guy who drinks his homemade bear while he soaps and yes, Nancy Today...when I saw her house I knew she was a lil screwy louie but I gleaned a lil from all three people.

I found myself less trusting of the 30-something and under soap makers on youtube, their style of soapmaking made me less confident in their knowledge.


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## ChrissyB (Jul 2, 2009)

I think Nancy Today is Nancy the Nutbag.
She is one crazy woman.
While I feel a little sorry for her because she is obviously alone and suffering from some form of mental illness, the way she makes soap, let alone cooking/cleaning, any domesticity, she makes me cringe.


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## Dixie (Jul 2, 2009)

OMG, I think I'll pass on YT!


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## BlueSky (Jul 2, 2009)

Today I am going to try to replace all of my glass mixing supplies with stainless. A lot of you mix your soap in a pitcher, but how can you tell when it is time to pour? I would think if you are stick blending in a pitcher it would be really difficult to see the soap tell when to pour. My glass measuring bowl gives me a lot of visual and I can tell when the soap is thickening.

So that leaves stainless steel bowls, but it would be difficult to pour from a bowl. I like to use the small imprinted molds so a pour spout is a must. Just hate to invest in a stainless pitcher and find I can't use it.


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## honor435 (Jul 2, 2009)

so, if yall use stainless to mix lye/water, doesnt that take a long time to cool down, I use a hard plastic measuring cup from home depot( my hubby is in granite bus. and used these all the time for hot liquids)i like it cause i can put it in ice bath to cool lye.


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## angbaby4974 (Jul 2, 2009)

BlueSky said:
			
		

> Today I am going to try to replace all of my glass mixing supplies with stainless. A lot of you mix your soap in a pitcher, but how can you tell when it is time to pour? I would think if you are stick blending in a pitcher it would be really difficult to see the soap tell when to pour. My glass measuring bowl gives me a lot of visual and I can tell when the soap is thickening.
> 
> So that leaves stainless steel bowls, but it would be difficult to pour from a bowl. I like to use the small imprinted molds so a pour spout is a must. Just hate to invest in a stainless pitcher and find I can't use it.



I don't think a lot of us mix our SOAP in pitchers, but rather the lye is mixed in a pitcher.  Personally I use stainless steel bowls for everything.  The mixing bowls they have at WalMart are cheap & they work well.  I got an 8 Qt for like $12 or so.  I would rather spend the $12 for a huge mixing bowl (to go with all the others I have) than heat up the glass & risk breaking it, & a possible trip to the ER.  I would imagine you can use plastic bowls, but I just hate plastic bowls.  And I don't have any problems pouring from my SS bowls either.


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## angbaby4974 (Jul 2, 2009)

honor435 said:
			
		

> so, if yall use stainless to mix lye/water, doesnt that take a long time to cool down, I use a hard plastic measuring cup from home depot( my hubby is in granite bus. and used these all the time for hot liquids)i like it cause i can put it in ice bath to cool lye.



I find it dissipates the heat rather quickly if I run cool/cold water in the sink & let it sit in a "cold bath" while I gently stir.  I haven't screwed up (*knocks on wood*) & spilled it into the cold water yet.  I also don't put the stopper in the sink, I just let the bowl sit over the drain.  No way in hell I'm gonna stick my  hand, gloved of course, in a sink full of lye water.


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## carebear (Jul 2, 2009)

ChrissyB said:
			
		

> I think Nancy Today is Nancy the Nutbag.
> She is one crazy woman.
> While I feel a little sorry for her because she is obviously alone and suffering from some form of mental illness, the way she makes soap, let alone cooking/cleaning, any domesticity, she makes me cringe.


naw, she's not alone.  she has a video of her husband rubbing some balm or something into her feet and another of visiting her daughter in Germany.  she's got an adult son also and maybe more kids.


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## tincanac (Jul 2, 2009)

Awwww I think Nancy Today is funny and kooky - I dont think she means everyone to take her deathly seriously.....she makes me laugh!


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## ChrissyB (Jul 2, 2009)

Carebear really?
I had the impression that she was all by herself and really really bored and that's why she makes all these movies for YT.
I wonder what her kids think of her? (But I guess if they don't know anything about soapmaking, they wouldn't have a clue, would they?)
What bothers me, is if some kid has to research soapmaking, for school or something, so they look it up on you tube *which they do*, and there she is doing everything wrong, and she is doing it quite dangerously also.
And while some of her soap looks quite nice on etsy, would you like to buy soap off someone that keeps it in the same room as her worm laiden couch, what's to stop the cat from wiping it's worms on the soap? Or anything else she uses for her soapmaking?
Ewwww.


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## AshleyR (Jul 2, 2009)

Nancy does seem a little "off the rocker" sometimes and she isn't the best at keeping her house clean (I totally agree!) but if you watch some of her videos other than the soapmaking videos, she is a really nice and knowledgeable person. I have talked with her in PM's on YouTube for awhile now and she has given me some great advice (supplier info, etc.) So, I can't cut her down!


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## flyingpig (Jul 2, 2009)

mandolyn said:
			
		

> Safety First!
> 
> Mixing lye in glass is NOT recommended. Lye will etch even tempered glass & eventually weaken it. It might look fine, until you lift it up, then the bottom falls out or it seeps solution all over you.



I've been using heavy Pyrex for mixing lye ever since I began which is about eight years ago.  It is true that over time the lye will etch the glass, which is why I don't use that piece for anything else but mixing lye.  It takes a long time to etch the glass.  I've never had any problem at all.  I did replace my first Pyrex pitcher about six months ago, but that was only because I'd left it at someone's house after teaching a workshop there, and was having a heck of a time getting it back from that flake...it was easier just to go get a new one.

I don't like mixing lye in stainless because a)the heat makes it hard to handle, and b)most stainless vessels don't have handles.  And I avoid plastics altogether.  I suppose a big stainless pitcher like I've seen in restaurants would work just fine, however.


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## TessC (Jul 2, 2009)

mandolyn said:
			
		

> There are a plethora of bad recipes as well. That's why those of us who've been around a while keep chanting the mantra "Run every recipe throug a lye calculator - no matter where it came from."



Ugh, some of the recipes are awful.  :shock:


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## Lindy (Jul 2, 2009)

I use BIG pyrex measuring cups for my lye mixtures.  They are in the sink and I have my soap pot (SS) in the other sink for the pour and blending.  I wash my pyrex oiut with a vinegar solution for clean-up.  So far so good - but I don't trust anything and that's why I use my sinks for everything except the pour.... :?


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## ChrissyB (Jul 3, 2009)

Nancy today has a blog attached to her vids. In one of her entries she says she has to go to the chemist to get some more celexa. I looked it up and I think it is a form of antidepressent. So I apologise for saying jokingly that she has mental problems, In all seriousness I think she might.
Without knowing the poor lady it was unfair of me to make that comment.
I think that the photos of her soap on etsy look lovely. And she obviously knows a lot about soapmaking. Maybe she just sort of "forgets' the safety issues. Or maybe she's always thrown caution to the wind and nothing has ever gone wrong, so why should she change now?
I am a little concerned that she has over 3000 movies on You Tube, an etsy store, a blog, her soapmaking, going to Germany,no wonder she doesn't get any housework done.
Maybe we should send her the link for the Fly Lady.


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## madpiano (Jul 3, 2009)

ChrissyB said:
			
		

> Carebear really?
> I had the impression that she was all by herself and really really bored and that's why she makes all these movies for YT.
> I wonder what her kids think of her? (But I guess if they don't know anything about soapmaking, they wouldn't have a clue, would they?)
> What bothers me, is if some kid has to research soapmaking, for school or something, so they look it up on you tube *which they do*, and there she is doing everything wrong, and she is doing it quite dangerously also.
> ...



I can vouch for the fact that cats do not wipe their bums on soap. The FO actually makes them run a mile and eye it very suspiciously...Especially as soap could always mean bathtime....


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## LJA (Jul 3, 2009)

AshleyR said:
			
		

> xyxoxy - I have loved watching Nancy Today on YT, and while she is not always safe and doesn't measure her stuff properly most of the time - she is a really nice, funny, and she doesn't give off the impression that she knows it all - rather the exact opposite. She is pretty free spirited. So, while some people pick on her, her soapmaking ways don't bother me as much as the other lady I watch. I've never seen this one mix lye in a glass jar so I don't know if we're talking about the same person, but I just wanted to let you know it wasn't Nancy I was talking about.



Oh she's a hot mess, and I mean that in the best possible way.  I love her and watch her every day.  I'm totally not lying.  EVERY.  Day.  Someone needs to give her a TV show.  Total wackadoodle, and marches to her own drum.  I love that. But you look up "good soul" in the dictionary, there is a picture of her.  Everyone should check her out.


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2009)

did you guys realize Nancy Today is an improv comedian?  Go directly to her channel...and read....


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## AshleyR (Jul 3, 2009)

phillysoaps said:
			
		

> did you guys realize Nancy Today is an improv comedian?  Go directly to her channel...and read....



I think that is just the category she considers herself in because so many people find her funny. She isn't an actual comedian and it's pretty obvious in her videos that she isn't acting.


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## carebear (Jul 3, 2009)

phillysoaps said:
			
		

> did you guys realize Nancy Today is an improv comedian?  Go directly to her channel...and read....


 uh... no. she isn't.  not in the traditional sense of the term.


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## ChrissyB (Jul 3, 2009)

No I'm pretty sure she's for real, in her own little world.


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## IanT (Jul 3, 2009)

i dont know if it classifies as advice but anyone remember that dude saying he wanted to fly is lye in his ultra-light plane with no declarations over communities and stuff...lol, just to save on shipping..


yeahhh.... whoever told him he could do that..baaaad advice


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2009)

I remember that thread , totally not legal here anyway .Lye can only be shipped ground . 
 Maybe that is why he never came back :wink:

Kitn


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## ChrissyB (Jul 3, 2009)

Yep I remember that one.
You'd think the fuel for the plane would cost more than the shipping, wouldn't it? :roll:


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## xyxoxy (Jul 4, 2009)

Yeah I was worried about him crash landing in water with a plane full of lye crystals...  :shock:


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2009)

xyxoxy said:
			
		

> Yeah I was worried about him crash landing in water with a plane full of lye crystals...  :shock:



OMG never thought of that . Yikes !!


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## LJA (Jul 4, 2009)

Kitn said:
			
		

> xyxoxy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OMG....He'd have to crash again in a vat of vinegar!


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2009)

ROFLMAO  LJA 
Then he'd have to crash in fresh water again .


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## IanT (Jul 4, 2009)

lol yeah if he crashed in my yard with that....he better hope he dont survive the landing... cause i got one of those big yellow suits i could wear to wade through the lye nastiness lol


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## Inodoro Pereyra (Jul 4, 2009)

Well, I never knew the guy (I'm guessing he was here before I joined), but for what you guys are saying, you have to wonder how some people can survive to be old enough to type...  :roll: 



			
				IanT said:
			
		

> lol yeah if he crashed in my yard with that....he better hope he dont survive the landing... cause i got one of those big yellow suits i could wear to wade through the lye nastiness lol



  If he crashed ANYWHERE with that, and survived the landing, he'd have a lot to worry about, besides your yellow suit...


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2009)

You got that right Inodoro , he would have some explaining to do and then some  :shock: .


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## hem06 (Jul 5, 2009)

I started off being shocked at NancyToday, now I think I lurvvvve her a little.

No, seriously.  She is just the right amount of kooky.  She makes me laugh.

Carrot earing made of baby carrots and paper clips?    

I watch her all the time now.


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## Inodoro Pereyra (Jul 5, 2009)

Kitn said:
			
		

> You got that right Inodoro , he would have some explaining to do and then some  :shock: .



Yep. not to mention having to deal with lye, and maybe fuel, spilled all over the place, and maybe all over his body.
 Like Einstein said: "Only the Universe and human stupidity are infinite, and I'm not sure about the Universe."


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## xyxoxy (Jul 5, 2009)

I think if you crashed a plane full of lye into a lake you would surely win a Darwin award.


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## carebear (Jul 5, 2009)

I think if you crashed a plane full of lye into a lake you'd have no problem unless you and the lye stayed in the plane as it filled with water - if it was a small plane and you had a lot of lye.  Otherwise it'd be so dilute it'd be a non event.

I know that USPS regulations say they won't allow lye to be shipped via air.  And various airlines may have rules about it.  Not sure it's a law, though.  Anyone know about the legal status of it?


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2009)

It is illegal in Canada , it has to be shipped ground.

Kitn


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2009)

xyxoxy said:
			
		

> I think she mixes lye in a speghetti sauce jar with a wooden spoon (not to beat the dead horse about lye and glass). I mean she seems like a really fun person but it's a little reckless to be giving video lessons on something you have only just started.



I've seen that vid if it's the same spaghetti jar and I copied the jar idea and have been mixing lye in a huge coffee jar since I started making soap (6 months ago). Thankfully nothing has exploded however, if the jar did break it would be no biggy. I mix the lye in the coffee jar which sits in my 16 quart stainless steel container. No breaks yet thankfully.


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## IanT (Jul 5, 2009)

Kitn said:
			
		

> It is illegal in Canada , it has to be shipped ground.
> 
> Kitn


same here... because if it gets wet (which is pretty much imminent if its in a cargo bay because of the condensation of water upon taking off/landing and changing altitudes).... its could reduce the integrity of the aircraft and lead to potential injury


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## safire_6 (Jul 7, 2009)

Don't know if this is bad advice or not 'cuz I've only been making soap since April but a S Cavitch book that I started with says that she always superfats at 10%.  Most everyone on this forum recommends 6-7%.  So now I have to ask why?


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## carebear (Jul 7, 2009)

actually I superfat between 5% and 20% so while I used to think it was bad advice (I have that book too) - I no longer think so.


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## ChrissyB (Jul 8, 2009)

Superfat all depends on the oils you are using, for me anyway.


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## Egzandra (Jul 8, 2009)

How high can you superfat without the soap going rancid, and if you superfat on the high side how long will the soap last?  :?


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## carebear (Jul 8, 2009)

according to Dr Dunn's work, the level of superfat is not an issue with DOS - only the selection of your oils.  I myself have trouble coming to terms with that, tho it makes sense on a certain level.

But as I said, I superfat up to 20%.

as for how long your soap will last - well that depends on your formula as a whole, your cure period, how much water you use, your additives... hard to say LOL.


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## safire_6 (Jul 8, 2009)

Can you help me understand this?  When superfatting at 10% my bars are firmer.  At 6% they are softer.  Shouldn't it be the other way around?  Or would it be because of the oils I used:

10% recipe = palm, olive, coconut
6% recipe = palm, olive, coconut, castor, beeswax


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## carebear (Jul 8, 2009)

it would be the recipe you use, the amount of water you soap with, and the cure time.  

in MY experience, I've not seen a difference in hardness with the same recipe when shifting the superfat small amounts.  actually most of my formulas are very hard and I don't even see a difference between 10% and 20%.


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## safire_6 (Jul 8, 2009)

Why then, do most say to use 6-7% and not 10%?


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## oldragbagger (Jul 8, 2009)

carebear said:
			
		

> according to Dr Dunn's work, the level of superfat is not an issue with DOS - only the selection of your oils.  I myself have trouble coming to terms with that, tho it makes sense on a certain level.



Actually, that makes perfect sense to me.  If you think about it, there are oils you can leave in your cupboard for years, and while you may not particularly want to cook with them after that amount of time, they are not rancid, just old.  (I found a bottle of olive oil in the back of my cupboard with a date of 2003 on it, it looks fine.)

Then there are other oils that it says clearly on the bottle to _Refrigerate After Opening_ so you know darn well those oils are much more fragile and become unstable after being exposed to oxygen.  I would say if you have any of *those* oils in your soap, DOS might be more of a threat.

I use anywhere between 8-10% regularly and have had no problems with the bars hardening up.


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## carebear (Jul 8, 2009)

I honestly don't know!  I was taught 5-6% and told to stray from it risks soft bars, DOS and giving birth to children with 3 nipples.  Well the triple nipple thing might be correct (my daughter has 3) but the DOS thing and the soft soap haven't played out for me.

Go figure.


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## TessC (Jul 8, 2009)

I've superfatted every one of my batches between 7-20%. 8-10% is where the majority of my batches are, and I've not had a single soft batch or DOS. I think the 5-6% is just the standard that a lot of people stick with because it's been used for a long time and proven to be safe and reliable for so many. 

 I bookmarked the single oil properties pdf and try to be mindful of it when I'm working out my recipes in SoapCalc, especially the hardness and DOS columns. I do use some of the oils that produced DOS in their single oil test bars, but not in huge percentages, and not in combination with a lot of other oils that are prone to DOS. 

The color pics are incredibly helpful, too, when I want a lighter or darker color to go with a particular scent, so that has been an invaluable resource.


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## oldragbagger (Jul 8, 2009)

Thanks, Tess.  That's good info!

I just saved that PDF file to my computer.  Awesome.


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## IrishLass (Jul 8, 2009)

safire_6 said:
			
		

> Why then, do most say to use 6-7% and not 10%?



It really comes down to personal preferences and what works for you or doesn't work for you.... You just need to experiment to find where your limits lie (or lay....I keep forgetting which word is proper to use in which context).   

Having said that, though, many calculators are set at a default buffer zone of 5%. This is because the SAP #'s of oils and fats can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and from lot number to lot number, etc..., and so somebody, somewhere came up with 5% as being the least, general, 'safe' percent that one should be able to soap at without putting ones soap into the danger zone of being lye heavy as a result of all the varying SAP #'s. You can experiment and soap lower or higher than that, though. I've soaped as low as 3% and as high as 20% with no adverse results (except in a batch with 30% canola at about an 8 to 10% S/F, that is- major DOS for me).

IrishLass


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## safire_6 (Jul 9, 2009)

All of this feedback sure helps ease my mind, thank you so much.  Really, this forum is so helpful.  As long as we are on the subject, and I know it's been addresses many times,   Is there a "general" temp to soap at?  I've  been doing a lot of reading about temps and haven't been able to find anything concrete.  Is there a general guideline?  Do floral fo's tend to keep from seizing at lower temps, when are higher temps appropriate?  Is there somewhere that gives a good explaination so I don't have to keep bugging you?


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## TessC (Jul 9, 2009)

I typically soap most recipes at room temperature, which is ~78-80F for me. It's way easier that way, I mix up my lye solution and set it aside in a safe and secure place to cool while I melt my hard oils. Once they're melted and mixed with the soft oils, I wander off to do something else until both containers are at room temp.

I doesn't work on all recipes, though. Right off the top of my head, the batch I made that was mostly lard and shea butter needed to be warmer to keep it liquid.


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## carebear (Jul 9, 2009)

When working with the more traditional half soft oils recipes I love room temp as described by Tess (but then sometimes I have to warm my molds to encourage gel if it's chilly in the house) .  And like her, I have to soap warmer with my high solid oil formulas (110-ish for my 75% coconut oil/25% other solid oil/butter).


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## oldragbagger (Jul 9, 2009)

I have made about 15 batches.  Because I am in the experimental stage, every single one of them has been a different recipe.  I have soaped all of them at 100-110 degrees and it has worked every time.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2009)

I have always measured my lye in glass.  Then I added it to one stainless pot with the cold water.  Then poured that into my other stainless steel soap making pot.  Then when ready to go into the oven, pour half back into that first stainless pot.  Fewer dishes.

Well the glass bowl was great and had the wearing away word "lye" on the side in permanent marker since we had other matching bowls in the kitchen.  I was quite attached to this bowl.  It never let me down.  It was always ready for use and didn't have to be washed between batches.  

Then late one night, 2 am, after coming back from a long weekend of camping with little sleep, our shower wouldn't drain right.  Well DH went after with the plunger...again.  This time I had the "fix" that would work better than that stupid plunger and his temporary answer.  We used that glass bowl, DH holding it while I tried to stir with one hand, with both of us with our shirts over our faces due to the fumes in a small room.  He poured when it got too hot to handle but some lye had stuck to the sides.  We added more.......cold water.  Yup, the glass broke, in DH's hand.   So much for my way better solution.  Now I use a little plastic bowl recycled from my child's todller days when he'd eat his breakfast quickly to find that train on the bottle.


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