# 99% lye



## don187 (Oct 30, 2017)

hey guys , its me again with all the noobish questions !!

right so finally i found 99% lye here but let me tell what else it contains and please let me know if it is okay to use , pretty sure Deeanna will reply so i cant wait lol 

here is the product specs :

sodium hydroxide = 99 wt% min--- actual = 99.68
sodium carbonate = 9400 wt ppm max--- actual = 1405
sodium chloride = 460 wt ppm max --- actual = 212
sodium sulfate = 380wt ppm max --- actual = 30
Iron = 5wt ppm --- actual = 1.4

nickel = 3 wt ppm max --- actual = 0.5

i am still worried about using it , is this one okay ? please let me know


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## Ford Prefect (Oct 30, 2017)

You probably already know this, but just in case you don't, I have read that  the way NaOH is spec'd, the amount of absorbed water is not included in the label. So, you could still be buying a product that has a significant amount of water and it would never show on the label even though the label states the product is 99% NaOH. Thus, if you buy it, you might want to do the test set forth in Dunn's book, Scientific Soapmaking, to determine the actual water content. Otherwise, figuring it into your recipe at 99% NaOH, when the actual water content might be 10% (just as an example), could result in 10% of your oil not getting reacted. If you already were planning on a 5% superfat, the end result could be an actual 15% superfat.


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## don187 (Oct 30, 2017)

Ford Prefect said:


> You probably already know this, but just in case you don't, I have read that  the way NaOH is spec'd, the amount of absorbed water is not included in the label. So, you could still be buying a product that has a significant amount of water and it would never show on the label even though the label states the product is 99% NaOH. Thus, if you buy it, you might want to do the test set forth in Dunn's book, Scientific Soapmaking, to determine the actual water content. Otherwise, figuring it into your recipe at 99% NaOH, when the actual water content might be 10% (just as an example), could result in 10% of your oil not getting reacted. If you already were planning on a 5% superfat, the end result could be an actual 15% superfat.



wow okay , i will try that for the water!but i was just worried about the nickel in it even tho it is a really small amount.


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## Zany_in_CO (Oct 31, 2017)

Hi Don,

I'm not DeeAnna, but the lye we use in soapmaking is NaOH (sodium hydroxide) and nothing else. Where are you? Maybe we can find a supplier for you in your area.


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## don187 (Oct 31, 2017)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Hi Don,
> 
> I'm not DeeAnna, but the lye we use in soapmaking is NaOH (sodium hydroxide) and nothing else. Where are you? Maybe we can find a supplier for you in your area.




hi ! i am grateful to every tip you guys provide !!

i am in Saudi arabia , eastern province


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## Zany_in_CO (Oct 31, 2017)

Here's a link I just posted on your other thread about where to buy NaOH aka sodium hydroxide aka caustic soda in SA:

https://www.ubuy.com.sa/en/catalog/...soaps-2-lb?sku=B0084UUG16&store=US&p-key=3110

Be sure to use distilled water. Good luck and have fun!


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## don187 (Oct 31, 2017)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Here's a link I just posted on your other thread about where to buy NaOH aka sodium hydroxide aka caustic soda in SA:
> 
> https://www.ubuy.com.sa/en/catalog/...soaps-2-lb?sku=B0084UUG16&store=US&p-key=3110
> 
> Be sure to use distilled water. Good luck and have fun!




thank you so much !! thing is i am not sure if Saudi authorities will let that pass through customs.

so the one i got i hsouldnt use? because i bought 25 KG of it xD was the minimum order haha


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## Primrose (Oct 31, 2017)

I'm very new so I could be completely on the wrong track here, but maybe you are overthinking this? 

In Australia, the lye/caustic soda that many many people use is 98% sodium hydroxide.


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## don187 (Oct 31, 2017)

Primrose said:


> I'm very new so I could be completely on the wrong track here, but maybe you are overthinking this?
> 
> In Australia, the lye/caustic soda that many many people use is 98% sodium hydroxide.



maybe i am but honestly i dont want to harm anyone with the soap


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## Susie (Oct 31, 2017)

I would not use the NaOH with the other ingredients in it for soap. I am not sure what you can do with all of that, maybe use it to clean your drains out.  I would not use it for pretzels, either.


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## don187 (Oct 31, 2017)

Susie said:


> I would not use the NaOH with the other ingredients in it for soap. I am not sure what you can do with all of that, maybe use it to clean your drains out.  I would not use it for pretzels, either.



aah i guess i will just give it back to the factory , well if they accept i mean haha


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## Ford Prefect (Oct 31, 2017)

OSHA lists dermatitis as a fairly common result of nickle exposure.

https://www.osha.gov/dts/chemicalsampling/data/CH_256200.html

Here's the MSDS:

https://www.osha.gov/dts/chemicalsampling/data/CH_256200.html


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## don187 (Oct 31, 2017)

Ford Prefect said:


> OSHA lists dermatitis as a fairly common result of nickle exposure.
> 
> https://www.osha.gov/dts/chemicalsampling/data/CH_256200.html
> 
> ...



aaah thats a shame !!!


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## DeeAnna (Oct 31, 2017)

Fair warning to newcomers -- I'm an engineer and a former college-level science and math instructor. If you are not emotionally up to dealing with my engineering professor tone, you should skip this post.

***

Firstly, a few people in this thread are confusing IMPURITIES (which is what is being discussed here) with ADDITIVES. They are _not_ the same. 

I have already explained the difference in another one of Don's recent posts, but here is the link for those who are wondering -- http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=668491&postcount=2 Another explanation: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=631718&postcount=6

***

Moving on. 

Have you ever looked at a certificate of analysis (COA) for NaOH? For example, hunt up a COA for the NaOH that Essential Depot (ED) sells. 

If you do that, you'll see something similar to Don's analytical report. The big numbers on Don's list and on the ED COA are in units of ppm -- Parts Per Million by weight. Don't get spooked by the fact that the numbers seem large, because they're not all that big in reality.

***

Don's NaOH has an actual iron (Fe) content of 1.4 ppm by weight and is allowed a maximum limit of 5 ppm.  

The ED COA I have for their non-food grade NaOH limits iron to 0.0017% max. That translates to 17 ppm max. Their food grade is 0.0015% or 15 ppm max.

So ask yourself -- which NaOH would you rather use if you're worried about iron? Don's at a max of 5 ppm or ED's at a max of 17 ppm?

***

Don's NaOH has an actual nickel content of 0.5 ppm by weight with a maximum limit of 3 ppm.

ED doesn't list nickel on their COA's, but I guarantee there is nickel in ED's NaOH because nickel is a necessary component in the metal equipment used to store and manufacture NaOH.

Since ED's COA is not helpful, let's look at other suppliers' standards for NaOH --

GFS 50% NaOH solution, reagent grade: 0.001% Nickel max (10 ppm max). For grins, the limit on iron (Fe) is also 0.001% max (again, that's 10 ppm max).

But that's a liquid NaOH product. Here's a solid form from Fisher Scientific that's comparable to the solid NaOH that most soap makers use --
Fisher Scientific NaOH pellets, 97%: Nickel 0.001% max (10 ppm max). Iron 0.001 % max (10 ppm max)

And another comparable solid NaOH product from Sigma Aldrich --
Sigma Aldrich NaOH pellets, 97%: Ni: ≤0.001% (10 ppm max) and Iron: ≤0.001% (10 ppm max)

***

When you make soap, the trace contaminants in the NaOH are diluted by all the other ingredients in the soap. Picking one of my latest soap recipes, the NaOH is about 10% of the total batch weight. So the iron and nickel are diluted in soap to roughly one tenth the amount present in the original NaOH. 

Bottom line --

If you use NaOH made by any reputable company -- and Fisher (distributor), Sigma Aldrich, and GFS are all reputable sources -- your soap will contain as much nickel and iron (and possibly even more) as if you used Don's NaOH. 

If you are not having a problem with _your_ soap doing bad things like triggering someone's nickel allergy or whatever, then Don's soap won't either.

***

To Zany -- Where is the COA for the Red Crown Lye you suggested is so much better than Don's product? Did you take the time to compare the Red Crown analysis with Don's NaOH so you know the differences? Do your homework!

To Don -- This NaOH is fine for soap, assuming you actually get what the distributor says you're getting. But my firm advice to you -- next time, ask questions BEFORE you buy. If this was not suitable for soaping, then you would have the problem of disposing of 25 kg of a hazardous chemical, and that is no laughing matter. Do your homework too!


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## don187 (Oct 31, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> Fair warning to newcomers -- I'm an engineer and a former college-level science and math instructor. If you are not emotionally up to dealing with my engineering professor tone, you should skip this post.
> 
> ***
> 
> ...





you are a life saver !!! i honestly appreciate all your help .

if this is wasnt suitable i was thinking of going back to the factory so they can use it instead of disposing it

but honestly thank you so much !! sounds like my lye is the best after all haha

thank you again


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## SaltedFig (Oct 31, 2017)

And the other bits:

sodium hydroxide = NaOH
sodium carbonate = soda ash
sodium chloride = table salt
sodium sulfate = also leftovers from the NaOH manufacturing process (within specs)

We can get 99.995% purity in Australia, but it isn't really worth the enormous extra amount of money for soapmaking, and would very rapidly absorb water and CO2 anyway.

Well-made 98% (from a trust-worthy company) is excellent for soaping, and your specs are better than that.


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## don187 (Oct 31, 2017)

SaltedFig said:


> And the other bits:
> 
> sodium hydroxide = NaOH
> sodium carbonate = soda ash
> ...




i guess i am lucky after all , here in saudi my product is 25 USD for 25 KG


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## SaltedFig (Oct 31, 2017)

At least one of our bigger "small" suppliers here imports theirs from your region (not going to mention precise here), for both price and purity. We are very lucky and have easy access to excellent oils at good prices here in Australia, so I'm not complaining :grin:

Anyway, next step ... you are going to be showing us photo's of soaps?


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## lmosca (Oct 31, 2017)

I totally agree with DeeAnna, 

Don's sodium hydroxide seems to meet all the specifications that we use over here for a USP-NF (Pharmacopeia-National formulary) sodium hydroxide.

I can't see any problem in using it for soap. 

L.


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## don187 (Oct 31, 2017)

SaltedFig said:


> At least one of our bigger "small" suppliers here imports theirs from your region (not going to mention precise here), for both price and purity. We are very lucky and have easy access to excellent oils at good prices here in Australia, so I'm not complaining :grin:
> 
> Anyway, next step ... you are going to be showing us photo's of soaps?



definitely when i finsih them ! cant wait its my frist try by the way so dont expect anything fancy :mrgreen:


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## Zany_in_CO (Oct 31, 2017)

don187 said:


> thank you so much !! thing is i am not sure if Saudi authorities will let that pass through customs.


Check again. I believe that is a link to purchase in SA, also the price is in SARs.


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## DeeAnna (Oct 31, 2017)

don187 said:


> ...if this is wasnt suitable i was thinking of going back to the factory so they can use it instead of disposing it...



I wouldn't assume they would do this. Most companies will not take returned industrial chemicals. Why should they? After you received it, it went out of their control and they have no assurance the chemical is the same as when it left their dock. How could they in good conscience re-sell the chemical to someone else?

"...but honestly thank you so much !!..."

I'm glad to have helped.


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