# Should I try to sell at a tiny FM where I live



## Kari Howie (Nov 22, 2019)

...and where there is already a soap vendor there. I looked at her website and she has a huge variety of fragrance soap, plus shower steamers and bath bombs. She does simple swirls and layers, but nothing fancy. I only make soap so far, but I think mine is a little fancier, e.g. mica lines, Taiwan swirls, polka dot, mosaic, hanger swirls. I just don’t want to create an awkward situation since I think she’s claimed this FM as her turf. Like I said, it’s a tiny FM and we’d probably be staring at each other the whole time. But, I want to know if y’all have any advice or is there any etiquette I should know. TIA! Kari


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## shunt2011 (Nov 22, 2019)

I say go for it. If your style is different.  Different things appeal to different people. I do a couple shows where there’s 4-5 soapmakers and I still make really good money.  You just need to build your own client base.  If it doesn’t work put you can try somewhere else.   Put yourself out there.


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## Kari Howie (Nov 22, 2019)

shunt2011 said:


> I say go for it. If your style is different.  Different things appeal to different people. I do a couple shows where there’s 4-5 soapmakers and I still make really good money.  You just need to build your own client base.  If it doesn’t work put you can try somewhere else.   Put yourself out there.


 Thank you for the words of encouragement, shunt. I’ve really been struggling with this because I have no experience.


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## Millie (Nov 22, 2019)

Yes, do it!! For fun. You might make a soapy friend. If not, there are other places to be


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## dibbles (Nov 22, 2019)

I say yes! If the other soap maker has been doing this market for awhile already, she has her client base. Will she lose some customers to you? Hard to say, but if someone that has been using her soap and tries yours - and likes it better - then maybe she will lose some of them. I don't know how someone can think that this is a market where they are the only one that can sell the product they make, whether it is soap, cheese or quilts. 

A friend of mine wanted to take some soaps to a very large, year round market here. There is only one soap vendor. She was informed that the other soap vendor has a signed agreement to be the only one selling soap there. Smart lady!


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## Kari Howie (Nov 22, 2019)

Thank you all! It always helps to talk to fellow soapers. After I put out my query I stopped by a cute store on the main drag of our little downtown. I had my soap samples with me and the long and the short of it is she’s going to start carrying my soaps! Yay! Y’all must’ve sent some powerful thoughts my way!


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## KiwiMoose (Nov 22, 2019)

Do it!  There are several people selling soaps at the market I go to - I'm the 'new kid on the block' having just introduced it into my stall ( previously I just sold my painted stones).  There is one other lady who is palm free, as I am, so that gives us a point of difference.  I do make sure I engage with people though - and 'talk soap' with them.  Most of them appreciate my knowledge of the process - but some just want to smell the soap : )


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## Kari Howie (Nov 22, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> Do it!  There are several people selling soaps at the market I go to - I'm the 'new kid on the block' having just introduced it into my stall ( previously I just sold my painted stones).  There is one other lady who is palm free, as I am, so that gives us a point of difference.  I do make sure I engage with people though - and 'talk soap' with them.  Most of them appreciate my knowledge of the process - but some just want to smell the soap : )


Thanks, KiwiMoose!


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## Millie (Nov 22, 2019)

Kari Howie said:


> I had my soap samples with me and the long and the short of it is she’s going to start carrying my soaps!


That's awesome!!


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## Misschief (Nov 22, 2019)

Our market has a maximum of 60 vendors (on a full Sunday like this weekend's Christmas market); there is one other besides me who sells soap as part of their wares. They're a "collective" and sell a variety of products including photography, concrete planters and other things. I've gotten to know them and even though he makes soap, he's also bought from me because I inspire him. Last week, there was another soaper but her soaps were all M & P. I would say go for it!


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## Dawni (Nov 23, 2019)

Kari Howie said:


> Thank you all! It always helps to talk to fellow soapers. After I put out my query I stopped by a cute store on the main drag of our little downtown. I had my soap samples with me and the long and the short of it is she’s going to start carrying my soaps! Yay! Y’all must’ve sent some powerful thoughts my way!


Wow yey! That's great news


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## TheGecko (Nov 23, 2019)

Kari Howie said:


> ...and where there is already a soap vendor there. I looked at her website and she has a huge variety of fragrance soap, plus shower steamers and bath bombs. She does simple swirls and layers, but nothing fancy. I only make soap so far, but I think mine is a little fancier, e.g. mica lines, Taiwan swirls, polka dot, mosaic, hanger swirls. I just don’t want to create an awkward situation since I think she’s claimed this FM as her turf. Like I said, it’s a tiny FM and we’d probably be staring at each other the whole time. But, I want to know if y’all have any advice or is there any etiquette I should know. TIA! Kari



Unless she has an exclusive contract, it’s free enterprise.  When I did the craft fair earlier this month, I went around to all the other booths and introduced myself, passed out my cards, picked up one of theirs.  The gal that runs the fair makes soap...she makes a rustic goat milk soap from her own goats and we traded bars.  She said she was glad to see another soaper...more variety brings in more customers.


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## cmzaha (Nov 23, 2019)

Now that everyone has given their opinion I will give mine and no one will like it. I do a tiny market, less than 25 vendors with about 10 being fair trade crafters, and fortunately for other soapmakers after 1.5 yrs of a new market manager he has figured out not to bring in other soapmakers. I say fortunately for other soapmakers is because they just lose money. When I would not be able to attend the market for a week or so he would try to fill my space with an alternate soap seller. I asked him how that worked out and the answer was it did not go well. While this may not be the same for everyone and not everyone will agree to this, this is my market. It is a market I have been attending for at least 5 years and have outlived several soapmakers with many bragging how their soap does this and that, fancy soaps etc etc. Customers are faithful, once they like yours, it is yours they will purchase even if you are missing they wait until you return. 

I am another that does not make fancy soap. All my soaps are the same size 2 or 3 swirls with a selection of 40+. That is what sells for me. When I first started selling I tried the fancy tops, different additives other than oatmeal and salt and they just did not sell. So now simple Oatmeal, Salt Bars and no exfoliant soaps are found at my booth. 

As for making a soapie friend you may or may not. If she has been attending the market long enough she probably is comfortable enough knowing a new person is not going to affect her sales I may very well be friendly. Hard to say. I do question a market manager that will bring in another soapmaker when they already have on in a tiny market. We all put in the time and money to attend these markets to make money and it is Hard work.

So if you have to pay much for this market you need to decide and be prepared to not make much. The decision has to be yours and not ours. We are all in different States so different circumstances and different types of markets.


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## Kari Howie (Nov 23, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> Now that everyone has given their opinion I will give mine and no one will like it. I do a tiny market, less than 25 vendors with about 10 being fair trade crafters, and fortunately for other soapmakers after 1.5 yrs of a new market manager he has figured out not to bring in other soapmakers. I say fortunately for other soapmakers is because they just lose money. When I would not be able to attend the market for a week or so he would try to fill my space with an alternate soap seller. I asked him how that worked out and the answer was it did not go well. While this may not be the same for everyone and not everyone will agree to this, this is my market. It is a market I have been attending for at least 5 years and have outlived several soapmakers with many bragging how their soap does this and that, fancy soaps etc etc. Customers are faithful, once they like yours, it is yours they will purchase even if you are missing they wait until you return.
> 
> I am another that does not make fancy soap. All my soaps are the same size 2 or 3 swirls with a selection of 40+. That is what sells for me. When I first started selling I tried the fancy tops, different additives other than oatmeal and salt and they just did not sell. So now simple Oatmeal, Salt Bars and no exfoliant soaps are found at my booth.
> 
> ...


This is why I put the question out there. I had a bad feeling when I found out about the other established soaper. Fortunately I discovered the downtown shop who has no soaps and she is excited about carrying mine. So I think it best to stick with that.


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## cmzaha (Nov 23, 2019)

Kari Howie said:


> This is why I put the question out there. I had a bad feeling when I found out about the other established soaper. Fortunately I discovered the downtown shop who has no soaps and she is excited about carrying mine. So I think it best to stick with that.


Congratulations on landing the shop business which is probably your best sure-fire avenue. I wish you the best. Sometimes my opinions get me in trouble but I tend not to sugarcoat. It saddens me to see vendors lose money just so the market can make money even though it is business for both sides. 

No matter what others think you really can own a market when it is small or even when it is large. In a market I did with over 150 vendors, in it's prime, I was the main soap seller. I know of another weekly market that is 5 blocks long in Palm Springs there is the main soap seller out there who has been there for many years. I consider that her market even though I have counted up to 10 other sellers. Then there is a main m&p cupcake soap seller who has been out there for many many years. No, I have never sold in the market, but we wonder out there once a year or so to walk around.


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## Kari Howie (Nov 23, 2019)

You’re not in trouble with me, Carolyn. I really appreciate your perspective and advice.


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## Nanette (Nov 23, 2019)

Any possibility of talking with the soap maker at the tiny market? I dont know if thats even appropriate....or how you would feel if she said Oh H###no....but she might say oh sure, great to have more variety here! Just a thought.?


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## cmzaha (Nov 23, 2019)

Nanette said:


> Any possibility of talking with the soap maker at the tiny market? I dont know if thats even appropriate....or how you would feel if she said Oh H###no....but she might say oh sure, great to have more variety here! Just a thought.?


I am sorry, it is pretty unrealistic if they think it is nice to have competition. Most will sell because they need the extra income, some may sell as a hobby but soon find it is very hard work to lug around the heavy containers of soap, set up tables, etc so why would we want more soap sellers in our markets? We supplement our retirement why would I be happy to share? Also, the fact where I live sales are shaky too begin with and actually my biggest sales are crochet hats and hoods. While I am always friendly with any soapmaker/ seller that shows up in my market/markets I grumble to myself and husband.


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## Lin19687 (Nov 24, 2019)

Devil's advocate here .....Not sure how long you have been making soap, if you just do a few 2# batches a year or if you have 100's of stock ready to sell, so this is generalized answer.

For all the 'new' soapers, you better know how your soap does with a tried and true recipe BEFORE you start to sell.  This means that you need to know how it does for all skin types in all seasons.  Been making soap for more then a year....  yadda yadda yadda there are many posts on that subject.

Also know that if you make a Sub-par soap and there are other soapers there (who have the experience, put the years of learning in and a Good soap)  they will be a bit p.o'd that you brought in crappy 'newbee'  soap.  It makes  OTHER SOAPERS look bad when someone does this.
I have heard this many times in my booth.  "oh I don't buy those because the last one I got scratched my arm...dried out my skin....turned orange spotted....lost the scent when I opened it a month later... (worst) felt like it burned my skin afterwards (this could be lye or EO's, who knows ) 

If it is truly a small FM, like under 15 vendors I would say skip it.  More then 1 soap isn't worth it since they have been there for a while. Unless you are making M&P an they are making CP/HP , HUGE difference in these.

I have walked through some Craft Fairs and FM's and seen soap from a 'Bee' person that looked like crap.  Others overly pretty and toppings that are $8.00 and M&P.  Do they sell these?  Sure but they don't stay except for the Bee person as her main thing was honey so the 8 bars of plain honey soap was no extra thing for her.  Oh and it was wrapped in saran wrap 

Get everything under control first.  Changing packaging, signs or looks is fine but you need to make sure the soap you make is perfected.

Flame away, it doesn't bother me.  I was chomping at the bit when I came back to soaping and asked about M&P just to get some soap to make for a market fast.  I didn't end up doing the market as I hate M&P feel I found out.  Wasted $$$ buying M&P..... that is still sitting here unused along with pounds of CP that didn't turn out to my higher standard. They are fine but not the look I wanted or shape or under sized.  Which is fine because I will use it and I also donate to local homeless shelters.


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## Kari Howie (Nov 24, 2019)

Don’t worry, I’m not going to flame away. I do appreciate your wisdom. I have been making soap for about 5 years, so I feel confident in my products. I get lots of positive feedback, praise from my customers. However, I mostly sell to friends and folks at our local horse shows where my daughter used to show. I haven’t done many farmers’ markets. That’s where I lack experience and why I asked the origihaven’t put in much effort on that front.  I’m 65 with terrible arthritis and carting everything around is probably too much for me now that my daughters have moved away. After I first posted my question, the opportunity arose to sell my soaps at a local shop, so I jumped on it.  Still I truly appreciate what everyone has had to say. Thanks, y’all!


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## cmzaha (Nov 24, 2019)

My hubby goes with me and carries my buckets, but it is getting increasingly hard for him with his neck problems. He did ask his Neuro Surgeon if he thought it might be causing him more damage and he did not believe so. At this point, his doctor is just keeping an eye on the progression of damage. At 71 we are facing the fact we will not be able to do this many more years. I can carry my soap crates but being a man he will not let me.

 I had a gal from a spa and yoga salon ask if I would be interested in putting my soaps in her studio, so I will be considering it after the first of the year. I love making soap and will be needing another avenue if my husband gets to the point it is detrimental to him to help.


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## Kari Howie (Nov 24, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> My hubby goes with me and carries my buckets, but it is getting increasingly hard for him with his neck problems. He did ask his Neuro Surgeon if he thought it might be causing him more damage and he did not believe so. At this point, his doctor is just keeping an eye on the progression of damage. At 71 we are facing the fact we will not be able to do this many more years. I can carry my soap crates but being a man he will not let me.
> 
> I had a gal from a spa and yoga salon ask if I would be interested in putting my soaps in her studio, so I will be considering it after the first of the year. I love making soap and will be needing another avenue if my husband gets to the point it is detrimental to him to help.


  I sure hope your husband’s neck remains stable. Poor guy. My husband is simply totally uninterested in my soap endeavors. He came with me twice to “help”, complaining the whole time and talked me into setting up a single table behind my car instead of putting up my tent. So I’m pretty much on my own. The reason I was initially interested in the small FM was that it was under a permanent cover and they provided tables.



Nanette said:


> Any possibility of talking with the soap maker at the tiny market? I dont know if thats even appropriate....or how you would feel if she said Oh H###no....but she might say oh sure, great to have more variety here! Just a thought.?


I thought about it, but decided against selling there based on the manager’s apparent lack of knowledge (which mirrored my own) on booking vendors. Also, based on the sound advice I have received here and the gift from God of finding a great place for me.


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## sirtim100 (Nov 24, 2019)

Congratulations on the opportunity at the shop! Hope it goes very well for you!


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## Kari Howie (Nov 24, 2019)

Thank you! Thank you! I’m super excited!


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## lucycat (Nov 25, 2019)

If there are a few craft fairs that are doable I would encourage you to try.  I like fairs better than markets because I don't want the weekly attendance.  I sell 5 weekends in the fall and that works out really nice in retirement (I am 69).    If you haven't done any selling in a fair/market type venue you will be surprised at how much you learn from customers.  If the cost is reasonable it is worth doing just for the education.  It will broaden your ideas of good scents as well as being able to see how customers respond to color and names.


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## Kari Howie (Nov 25, 2019)

I’m a little intimidated by the craft fairs here. The Vintage Market, for example, is peer reviewed and I just don’t have the infrastructure (or physical ability) needed to set up an eye-catching display. I just delivered several batches of soap to sell on consignment at a local, high-end shop. I’ll probably stick with that if all goes well. Your insights and advice are much appreciated, however.  Thank you so much, Lucycat!


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## TheGecko (Nov 26, 2019)

Kari Howie said:


> I’m a little intimidated by the craft fairs here. The Vintage Market, for example, is peer reviewed and I just don’t have the infrastructure (or physical ability) needed to set up an eye-catching display. I just delivered several batches of soap to sell on consignment at a local, high-end shop. I’ll probably stick with that if all goes well. Your insights and advice are much appreciated, however.  Thank you so much, Lucycat!



I’m 58 and back isn’t what it used to be and it doesn’t help that I’m 50lbs overweight.  So I bought a a wagon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079TCDHDY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) with a net.  The wagon is lightweight and folds up easily.  I then cut a piece of craft paper the length and width of the cart, and with it, two bars of soap and with a measure tape, went to Wal-Mart and bought Sterling containers that would fit inside (and underneath) neatly and hold plenty of soap and other stuff.

For display, I am currently using a couple of 3-tiered counter spice racks that I got from the thrift store.  One holds 2 bars each of 9 soaps and the other holds 2 bars each of 6 soaps.  I recently ran across an expandable 3-tier rack that will almost double my display, without taking up more room in my cart.  If I get four of them and set two on top a container in back, I’ll have 6 tiers on each side.

And one thing I do that I only saw one other person do at the craft fair, was to actual paper shopping bags...nice bright colored ones with my business card stapled to them.


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## Zany_in_CO (Nov 26, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> - but some just want to smell the soap


Yup. I've said it before and I'll say it again, fragrance sells!


Misschief said:


> he's also bought from me because I inspire him.


Whatta guy!  That's a super-duper way to befriend another soaper. 

My advice: If t'were me, I would do both the shop and the FM just for the interaction and feedback you get from a face-to-face encounter. That experience is well worth the time and effort it takes to set up. Most of all, don't worry, HAVE FUN!


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## Kari Howie (Nov 28, 2019)

Makes sense. Thanks, Zany, for take the time to offer your advice!


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## Kari Howie (Nov 28, 2019)

TheGecko said:


> I’m 58 and back isn’t what it used to be and it doesn’t help that I’m 50lbs overweight.  So I bought a a wagon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079TCDHDY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) with a net.  The wagon is lightweight and folds up easily.  I then cut a piece of craft paper the length and width of the cart, and with it, two bars of soap and with a measure tape, went to Wal-Mart and bought Sterling containers that would fit inside (and underneath) neatly and hold plenty of soap and other stuff.
> 
> For display, I am currently using a couple of 3-tiered counter spice racks that I got from the thrift store.  One holds 2 bars each of 9 soaps and the other holds 2 bars each of 6 soaps.  I recently ran across an expandable 3-tier rack that will almost double my display, without taking up more room in my cart.  If I get four of them and set two on top a container in back, I’ll have 6 tiers on each side.
> 
> And one thing I do that I only saw one other person do at the craft fair, was to actual paper shopping bags...nice bright colored ones with my business card stapled to them.


That looks so much better than the suitcase I’m currently using. Thanks!


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## Nanette (Nov 28, 2019)

Re making your display attractive....I use little strings of mini lites.....I have a branch "jewelry tree" in a pot and have red rice lites weaving thru it- and salt bars in little organza bags hanging in it. Other baskets have clear lights, multicolor on the table, little tea lights. And bells...for Christmas...just some thoughts on how a table can get pretty...that and themed cloth napkins lining baskets instead of paper (if you use baskets)..very inexpensive and easy to do sitting down that makes a table nice imo.


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## Kari Howie (Nov 28, 2019)

Nanette said:


> Re making your display attractive....I use little strings of mini lites.....I have a branch "jewelry tree" in a pot and have red rice lites weaving thru it- and salt bars in little organza bags hanging in it. Other baskets have clear lights, multicolor on the table, little tea lights. And bells...for Christmas...just some thoughts on how a table can get pretty...that and themed cloth napkins lining baskets instead of paper (if you use baskets)..very inexpensive and easy to do sitting down that makes a table nice imo.


Those ideas all sound so pretty. What is difficult for me is putting up my tent and hauling bulky stuff like tables.


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## Nanette (Nov 28, 2019)

Kari Howie said:


> Those ideas all sound so pretty. What is difficult for me is putting up my tent and hauling bulky stuff like tables.


Oh, right..I hear that!


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## Dahila (Nov 28, 2019)

I am on market and there is a guy who brings everything (buys from others) what he see in my booth.  He is a miserable SOB,  I got more expensive booth to move away from him,  my sales actually got better.  Selling on market is hard job,  I can only count on returning customers and my designs,  The guy caries plain soaps


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