# Our soap and the Corona Virus



## Carl (Mar 13, 2020)

OK, someone had to bring it up, so I will.

Realistically, we're (referring to all of us on this site) all making a different version of the same type of soap.  We mix lye with oils.

I have heard "Wash your hands" about a million times this week.

Is the soap that we make sufficient for the hand washing needed to kill this virus?  Or do I need some type of over the counter bacteria killing soap?


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## Carly B (Mar 13, 2020)

There was a good article today in the NYT.  I was going to start a new thread, but this looks as good a place as any to put the link:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/science/soap-coronavirus-handwashing-germs.html


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## Mobjack Bay (Mar 13, 2020)

The quoted scientist wrote a piece for the Guardian after their Twitter post went viral (ironic).  I got the link via a news alert listserve from the publishers of the science journal Nature.  It’s a shorter 

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ail&utm_term=0_c9dfd39373-90abc25e3e-44722473


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## Jersey Girl (Mar 13, 2020)

Carly B said:


> There was a good article today in the NYT.  I was going to start a new thread, but this looks as good a place as any to put the link:
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/science/soap-coronavirus-handwashing-germs.html




Well look at that!  We are potential life savers!


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## Carl (Mar 13, 2020)

I liked this quote (although I only skimmed the article)

"On the whole, hand sanitizers are not as reliable as soap."

I guess the answer then to my initial question then is a YES.


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## dixiedragon (Mar 13, 2020)

Also, if we STAY HOME to make the soap, that stops us from mingling and spreading it around! Win win!


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## Jersey Girl (Mar 13, 2020)

dixiedragon said:


> Also, if we STAY HOME to make the soap, that stops us from mingling and spreading it around! Win win!



That’s pretty much my life for the last 6 weeks!


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## Adobehead (Mar 13, 2020)

Carly B said:


> There was a good article today in the NYT.  I was going to start a new thread, but this looks as good a place as any to put the link:
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/science/soap-coronavirus-handwashing-germs.html


Thank you for posting this.


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## Arimara (Mar 13, 2020)

I won't have speech therapy for the next few weeks at least. might as well make some soap. It's storing it I hay have some issue with.


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## bookreader451 (Mar 13, 2020)

I had a Dept. of Health official tell me I need to set up shop.  He said hand soap is the next shortage.  He obviously hasn't seen my basement.


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## Relle (Mar 13, 2020)

Shortage of hand soap here now in the supermarkets, also pasta, rice, toilet paper, flour are being rationed by the supermarkets. You can't bulk buy, which is good, stops everyone cleaning out shelves.


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## Nona'sFarm (Mar 13, 2020)

bookreader451 said:


> I had a Dept. of Health official tell me I need to set up shop.  He said hand soap is the next shortage.  He obviously hasn't seen my basement.


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## Adobehead (Mar 13, 2020)

bookreader451 said:


> I had a Dept. of Health official tell me I need to set up shop.  He said hand soap is the next shortage.  He obviously hasn't seen my basement.


Ha ha, blowing milk out my nose.


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## Nona'sFarm (Mar 13, 2020)

Most of the stores in this area are limiting the number of items a customer can buy. I guess they are learning from what is happening in other areas.


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## Alira (Mar 14, 2020)

Carl said:


> "On the whole, hand sanitizers are not as reliable as soap."



I had a coworker ask me today if I made hand sanitizer after a couple of customers asked if we sold the it. I told her that since the kids and I are allergic to the stuff, I refuse to touch it. Same for bleach, Lysol and the other "germ killers" on the market. Soap and hot water are generally better overall. Another coworker that always talks with me about soap making chimed in agreeing. That one fussed at me for not advertising my CP soaps, saying that that's the next shortage coming. From what he told me yesterday, the special needs teacher he helps is having a hard time keeping up with the demand they're under for soaps. Apparently, they're selling the fire out of the little MP soaps they make. 

The only time I was able to use sanitizer without a bad reaction was when I was stung by a bee. Killed the bee sting instantly. Any other time I touch it, my hands break out like I've poured acid over them. Not to mention, my throat closes up and I can't breathe. One of my daughters started using it thanks to the school forcing the issue and her hands started blistering and peeling bad enough to look like raw meat. Our doctor told her to never use it again.


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## Carly B (Mar 14, 2020)

Adobehead said:


> Thank you for posting this.



Sure thing. I have a LOT of soap around the house--I did M&P for quite a while before I started CP.  Hubby suggested putting a box of soap out on the front porch and alerting the neighbors to take some if they needed it.  I may....


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## jcandleattic (Mar 14, 2020)

Carl said:


> do I need some type of over the counter bacteria killing soap?


This as probably been covered, but I haven'r read the rest of the posts yet (promise I will) 
Soap by its very nature is "anti-bacterial" so IMO, no no need for anything extra, however you cannot claim that when giving/selling your soap, or you can be liable for false claims. To make claims like that you would need FDA approval, that, let's face it, you most likely won't get because it costs literally thousands of $$$ for the testing.... 

Now off to read the rest of the post.


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## Todd Ziegler (Mar 14, 2020)

Carly B said:


> There was a good article today in the NYT.  I was going to start a new thread, but this looks as good a place as any to put the link:
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/science/soap-coronavirus-handwashing-germs.html


I read the same article and saved it so I could show people I know who are buying the hand sanitizer and why they are wasting their money.


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## Quilter99755 (Mar 14, 2020)

Great posting and great news. I went to the store to pick up a prescription on Wednesday. This was before there was a known case of coronavirus in Idaho. No alcohol, aloe vera gel, hand sanitizers, anti-bacterial wipes or liquids of any type( includes baby wipes), no Lysol and maybe about 6-8 bottles of Clorox on the shelves.  I didn't bother with the toilet paper as I had been in Costco two days earlier and they didn't have any at that time. 

I have never liked hand sanitizers...too drying and hate the smell...so soap and water have always been my friend. I was going to hit the liquor store up for some Everclear, but now since I only go out when necessary, I will stick with my own soap....and feel more than safe. Hubby says we have enough soap until Doomsday...at least it isn't something that I have to go to the store for.  And I can get all the ingredients off the internet! 

After spending most of my life in Alaska, 150 miles from the nearest grocery store, where we went shopping once a month, I am still in the habit of keeping a fairly full pantry. We may not like what's in it to eat and have some fairly odd meals at times, but we don't "have to" go to the store on a daily basis. Right now that's a good habit to have.  Both me and hubby are of the age and we both have underlying conditions, so we are homebound for the duration....

With lots of soap!  Stay well soapers.


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## Kiti Williams (Mar 14, 2020)

Looks like us "Soapers" will be having a bang up business shortly!


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## Susie (Mar 14, 2020)

Quilter99755 said:


> Great posting and great news. I went to the store to pick up a prescription on Wednesday. This was before there was a known case of coronavirus in Idaho. No alcohol, aloe vera gel, hand sanitizers, anti-bacterial wipes or liquids of any type( includes baby wipes), no Lysol and maybe about 6-8 bottles of Clorox on the shelves.  I didn't bother with the toilet paper as I had been in Costco two days earlier and they didn't have any at that time.
> 
> I have never liked hand sanitizers...too drying and hate the smell...so soap and water have always been my friend. I was going to hit the liquor store up for some Everclear, but now since I only go out when necessary, I will stick with my own soap....and feel more than safe. Hubby says we have enough soap until Doomsday...at least it isn't something that I have to go to the store for.  And I can get all the ingredients off the internet!
> 
> ...



I'm from hurricane country.  I keep my house stocked with all of the basics to get us through at least a couple of weeks.  I might run out of Splenda, but that's about the only "crisis" item I will be needing.  And believe it or not, there's none to be found in any store around us.  May have to learn to drink coffee and tea unsweetened for the duration.


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## Arimara (Mar 14, 2020)

Susie said:


> I'm from hurricane country.  I keep my house stocked with all of the basics to get us through at least a couple of weeks.  I might run out of Splenda, but that's about the only "crisis" item I will be needing.  And believe it or not, there's none to be found in any store around us.  May have to learn to drink coffee and tea unsweetened for the duration.


Tea is one thing but unsweetened coffee? Nope, I will be skipping that.


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## Steve85569 (Mar 14, 2020)

Soap - check. I just *might* have a little extra.
Pantry....
Yup. It takes us an hour to get to the store so we have a pantry.
We *might* be the "preppers" next door to our neighbors. I just watched what my grandparents and parents did and followed suit when I came of age. We called it self sufficient way back then.
One of my chores was trying to keep the cow dog out of the cellar. He liked the cool in the summer and warm in the winter.


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## Kiti Williams (Mar 15, 2020)

Steve85569 said:


> Soap - check. I just *might* have a little extra.
> Pantry....
> Yup. It takes us an hour to get to the store so we have a pantry.
> We *might* be the "preppers" next door to our neighbors. I just watched what my grandparents and parents did and followed suit when I came of age. We called it self sufficient way back then.
> One of my chores was trying to keep the cow dog out of the cellar. He liked the cool in the summer and warm in the winter.




  I have been accused of being a "Prepper", But they also said they want me on their team for the Zombie Apocalypse!  I have most of the homestead skills down, just need to brush up on the hunting and cleaning of game,


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## TheGecko (Mar 15, 2020)

Quilter99755 said:


> After spending most of my life in Alaska, 150 miles from the nearest grocery store, where we went shopping once a month, I am still in the habit of keeping a fairly full pantry. We may not like what's in it to eat and have some fairly odd meals at times, but we don't "have to" go to the store on a daily basis. Right now that's a good habit to have.  Both me and hubby are of the age and we both have underlying conditions, so we are homebound for the duration....
> 
> With lots of soap!  Stay well soapers.



I'm a 'stocker' too...comes from my country upbringing when going to town was a whole day event.  I have just about two of everything (one in use, one as backup), or have 'refills'.  I have a large 'pantry' unit in the garage that my BIL made as well as a small chest freeze (got it used for $50).  Pasta on sale 10/$10...I'll spend $10 to $20.  Butter on sale...I'll pick up 2 to 3 pounds...more if it's a good sale.  Soup on sale...buy a few extra cans.  Frozen veggies on sale...buy a few extra bags.  Three adults in the house...except for some meds, we can self-quarantine for a good month of more.  If I run out of bread, I can always more it.  I do admit to buying a case of water.  Having a bottle of water by a sick person's bedside is better than a glass in case it gets knocked over.

My community has been hard hit by hoarders and profiteers since the virus showed up less than 10 miles away...three of the 10 have died.  After making sure friends and family had plenty of soap and cutting up 50 bars to take to the local shelter, I still have a 150 bars and am making more today.  I want to get my soap out to the community, but I really can't afford to give it away for free.  I would like to at least ask for the cost of ingredients and packaging so I can make more soap, but am not sure how to go about it.  I was thinking of posting on our community FB page...something along the lines of "$2.00 a bar, 5 bar maximum, meet at the Home Depot parking lot (they have cameras) between 5pm - 8pm, cash only".  I only have 160 bars so it would take long to sell out so I worry about getting mobbed.


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## Mobjack Bay (Mar 15, 2020)

I live in hurricane country and our rural location also means that we are always ready for winter power outages.  We almost always have plenty of everything.


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## Nona'sFarm (Mar 15, 2020)

TheGecko said:


> I'm a 'stocker' too...comes from my country upbringing when going to town was a whole day event.  I have just about two of everything (one in use, one as backup), or have 'refills'.


I was raised similarly and have plenty to last us through several months. Of course, there may be some grumbling from the peanut gallery as we run out of some favorite foods, but we won't starve.
I am disappointed in Chewy.com. I have a subscription with them, but received a notice this morning that they are swamped and they may not get my regular shipment out on Monday as planned. Kind of irks my soul, as I am a regular customer and feel my standing order should come before last minute shoppers. Of course, maybe they're having trouble getting their shipments in, because of the run on other stores for food and supplies. Guess my dogs may be eating chicken and rice for a few days. They won't complain.


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## KiwiMoose (Mar 16, 2020)

On the downside, our monthly market has been cancelled this weekend - the government have advised against gathering of 500+ people.  So that's a lost opportunity for selling soap.


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## shunt2011 (Mar 16, 2020)

Susie said:


> I'm from hurricane country.  I keep my house stocked with all of the basics to get us through at least a couple of weeks.  I might run out of Splenda, but that's about the only "crisis" item I will be needing.  And believe it or not, there's none to be found in any store around us.  May have to learn to drink coffee and tea unsweetened for the duration.



I have splenda I can send you.  My ex used it in his coffee and I have a Ziploc somewhat full.  I'd be happy to share.   I only use it in my tea on occasion.


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## Nona'sFarm (Mar 16, 2020)

KiwiMoose said:


> On the downside, our monthly market has been cancelled this weekend -.



I have decided not to participate in any more markets until we stop seeing cases of the virus, and am staying home as much as possible.  My Dad is 98 and I am his primary driver to doctor appointments. I don't want to carry the virus to him.  I do have an Etsy vendor account, but don't sell much there. Of course, this could change now.


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## KiwiMoose (Mar 16, 2020)

Luckily for us we've only had 12 confirmed cases in NZ - but that's how it starts eh?
Unfortunately not going to the market means lack of exposure for me - as a new soaper I rely on 'spreading the word' at the market, which in turn draws people back to my website for repeat sales.


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## Steve85569 (Mar 16, 2020)

Kiti Williams said:


> I have been accused of being a "Prepper", But they also said they want me on their team for the Zombie Apocalypse!  I have most of the homestead skills down, just need to brush up on the hunting and cleaning of game,



I grind flour, grew up cutting meat and have the garden under grow lights getting started.
I am the "go to guy" for some of the folks at the range when they need parts...


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## Nona'sFarm (Mar 16, 2020)

KiwiMoose said:


> Luckily for us we've only had 12 confirmed cases in NZ - but that's how it starts eh?
> Unfortunately not going to the market means lack of exposure for me - as a new soaper I rely on 'spreading the word' at the market, which in turn draws people back to my website for repeat sales.


I'm sorry. This illness is a financial blow to many. I did not mean to dismiss your situation.


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## Arimara (Mar 16, 2020)

Nona'sFarm said:


> I was raised similarly and have plenty to last us through several months. Of course, there may be some grumbling from the peanut gallery as we run out of some favorite foods, but we won't starve.
> I am disappointed in Chewy.com. I have a subscription with them, but received a notice this morning that they are swamped and they may not get my regular shipment out on Monday as planned. Kind of irks my soul, as I am a regular customer and feel my standing order should come before last minute shoppers. Of course, maybe they're having trouble getting their shipments in, because of the run on other stores for food and supplies. Guess my dogs may be eating chicken and rice for a few days. They won't complain.


I worked in a store front that sold pet food. I can honestly tell you it is an absolute NIGHTMARE when suppliers are affected by events beyond their control. Best thing for customers to consider, especially since this is the first time my generation has ever been through something like this, is to be patient with the vendors they order from. We are all in this mess together, thanks to the media drumming up panic within the drones. Let's just hope it ships within a week as we try to recover from the past week's panic of the masses.


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## KiwiMoose (Mar 16, 2020)

Nona'sFarm said:


> I'm sorry. This illness is a financial blow to many. I did not mean to dismiss your situation.


No worries at all Nona - no offence taken


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## shunt2011 (Mar 17, 2020)

They have cancelled all shows and markets here until further notice.  Hopefully they will refund any fees paid for them.  It's going to be difficult year for many.


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## CatahoulaBubble (Mar 17, 2020)

This is our time to shine. Soap will be our savior. So glad I've been making soap every weekend.


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## TheGecko (Mar 17, 2020)

Nona'sFarm said:


> Kind of irks my soul, as I am a regular customer and feel my standing order should come before last minute shoppers. Of course, maybe they're having trouble getting their shipments in, because of the run on other stores for food and supplies. Guess my dogs may be eating chicken and rice for a few days. They won't complain.



I seriously doubt that Chewy.com has time to play 'favorites'.  

I scored 3-12 packs of toilet paper, 2-5lbs bags of flour and 25lbs of cat food.  Now before anyone says anything, only the cat food is for us.  I have plenty of flour, but one of my co-workers mentioned yesterday that she is getting critically low...she makes her own bread and pasta.  I overheard another co-worker talking to her mom that she couldn't find any TP, but would try again after work...she is getting a 12-pack.  Another 12-pack is going to a friend...both her husband and FIL are very high-risk because of health issues and age and she works a high risk job (bank) and is worried about exposing herself more by having to source something as basic as toilet paper.  The third pack will go to the local food pantry to be split into 3-4 packs.


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## mtinetti61 (Mar 17, 2020)

I signed on for 120 guest size bars of beer soap for my nephew's wedding, which was going to be held at a brewery.  That is, until it was postponed due to the virus.  I have 2 5 pound logs of soap that almost seized from the FO I used.  It is not cosmetically fit for the wedding anyway, but still a good soap, so I'm set for the duration .    Along with my family, neighbors, friends and passers-by, haha!


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## jbedaded (Mar 17, 2020)

CatahoulaBubble said:


> This is our time to shine. Soap will be our savior. So glad I've been making soap every weekend.


unfortunately there is a shortage of distilled water where I live in NJ.  I have some, but my husband needs it for his CPAP, which takes precedence over my soapmaking hobby!  I was hoping to fill a lot of my down time making soap but I think that's not going to happen...


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## Susie (Mar 17, 2020)

shunt2011 said:


> I have splenda I can send you.  My ex used it in his coffee and I have a Ziploc somewhat full.  I'd be happy to share.   I only use it in my tea on occasion.



I appreciate the offer!  I am going to be at Walmart at 6 am when they open on Thursday.  I have informed my employer that I will probably be late that day.  She understands.  I will let you know if I can't get any.


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## bookreader451 (Mar 17, 2020)

jbedaded said:


> unfortunately there is a shortage of distilled water where I live in NJ.  I have some, but my husband needs it for his CPAP, which takes precedence over my soapmaking hobby!  I was hoping to fill a lot of my down time making soap but I think that's not going to happen...


I bet there is still aloe juice at Walmart.  It is in the pharmacy section near the vitamins.  Use that instead of water.  I do.


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## TheGecko (Mar 18, 2020)

mtinetti61 said:


> I signed on for 120 guest size bars of beer soap for my nephew's wedding, which was going to be held at a brewery.  That is, until it was postponed due to the virus.  I have 2 5 pound logs of soap that almost seized from the FO I used.  It is not cosmetically fit for the wedding anyway, but still a good soap, so I'm set for the duration .    Along with my family, neighbors, friends and passers-by, haha!



I just donated a bunch of soap to the local homeless shelter.  I took a bunch of my ‘uglies’ and cut them half.  The shelter was grateful.

I just ordered some more supplies.


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## KiwiMoose (Mar 18, 2020)

We were told to work from home from now on.  My first thought - stocking up on oils etc for soap making should we go on complete lockdown!


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## bakmthiscl (Mar 18, 2020)

bookreader451 said:


> I had a Dept. of Health official tell me I need to set up shop.  He said hand soap is the next shortage.  He obviously hasn't seen my basement.


I wonder whether we can get in trouble for "hoarding" all that soap!

I came here (belatedly) to point out the same thing.
And, YES, ordinary "lye soap" (no excess lye needed) will tear bacteria and viruses apart -- given sufficient lathering and rubbing.
Chemist here, with biochemistry training as well.  I saw an excellent video (on YouTube?  IDK) that described soap's action on the virus.  
This may seem hard to believe, but, by contrast, consider that a patent has been issued for a novel means of generating X-rays -- masking tape!  If you place masking tape in a semi-vacuum (IIRC) and peel the tape off the roll, X-rays (VERY high-energy electromagnetic rays -- like light rays but much higher energy) are generated and can be used to create an X-ray image for medical purposes.  I mention this to illustrate how seemingly ordinary things can have extraordinary effects.
Anyway, it's gratifying that what I've been telling folks for many years, that soap kills germs, is now being mainstreamed.

<snip> I do admit to buying a case of water.  Having a bottle of water by a sick person's bedside is better than a glass in case it gets knocked over.

<snip> I want to get my soap out to the community, but I really can't afford to give it away for free.  I would like to at least ask for the cost of ingredients and packaging so I can make more soap, but am not sure how to go about it.  I was thinking of posting on our community FB page...something along the lines of "$2.00 a bar, 5 bar maximum, meet at the Home Depot parking lot (they have cameras) between 5pm - 8pm, cash only".  I only have 160 bars so it would take long to sell out so I worry about getting mobbed.[/QUOTE]

Avoid reusing those disposable water bottles.  I haven't checked recently, but in the recent past there was concern that reuse could lead to the release of a plasticizer.  I have had to buy those cases of bottles too, to ensure I had water when I needed it.  They expand when they freeze and don't break -- a consideration.  I prefer reusable aluminum bottles, but those burst when they freeze, sometimes even when not full.
Don't forget that you have to replace the soap ingredients.  I have no reliable source of fat, though I've ordered in enough lye for the nonce.  I just use fat from roasts and don't make many of those.
I suggest you meet for sales in a designated area for the purpose.  In my town, that's the lot behind the police station.



jbedaded said:


> unfortunately there is a shortage of distilled water where I live in NJ.  I have some, but my husband needs it for his CPAP, which takes precedence over my soapmaking hobby!  I was hoping to fill a lot of my down time making soap but I think that's not going to happen...


Why do you need distilled water?  If it's for soapmaking, just substitute drinking water, or, use the condensate from a dehumidifier.  (Don't use that in a CPAP -- it's "distilled" but by no means sanitary.)
FWIW, if things get desperate getting distilled water for the CPAP, you can make it in limited quantities in a large pot with a dome lid.  I won't go into this now.  Respond if you want the details.


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## bookreader451 (Mar 18, 2020)

bakmthiscl said:


> I wonder whether we can get in trouble for "hoarding" all that soap!


you will be happy to know a bunch is going to our local shelter tomorrow.


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## Poowong soaper (Mar 18, 2020)

Hand washing with soap rules!! Always has and if people implement some simple commonsense processees they can prevent getting corona or any flue for that matter.


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## lorriicc (Mar 18, 2020)

What about M & P soaps?  Any idea?


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## TheGecko (Mar 18, 2020)

bakmthiscl said:


> Avoid reusing those disposable water bottles.  I haven't checked recently, but in the recent past there was concern that reuse could lead to the release of a plasticizer.  I have had to buy those cases of bottles too, to ensure I had water when I needed it.  They expand when they freeze and don't break -- a consideration.  I prefer reusable aluminum bottles, but those burst when they freeze, sometimes even when not full.
> Don't forget that you have to replace the soap ingredients.  I have no reliable source of fat, though I've ordered in enough lye for the nonce.  I just use fat from roasts and don't make many of those.
> I suggest you meet for sales in a designated area for the purpose.  In my town, that's the lot behind the police station.



I only use them a couple of times before I toss them.

As for ingredients...I’m a stocker; in home and in business.  I just put in an order on Castor Oil and butters, will probably order more Palm Oil and butters since I can’t source them locally.  I can get Olive, Coconut and Avocado Oil at Costco.

I’m revamping my lotion bar a bit...all this hand washing is bound to dry skin out.


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## BattleGnome (Mar 19, 2020)

Cooking science man explains! (Hopefully this embedding thing works)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## Arimara (Mar 19, 2020)

@BattleGnome I've been wondering why they've been saying to wash for twenty seconds all over the place. People really need to take all media with a grain of salt because these people are making you more scared.


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## beckster51 (Mar 19, 2020)

The 20 second wash rule has been around from the CDC for a loooooong time, and it is research based.  So, it is a sound rule to follow.  It is the way hospital workers are taught to wash their hands by infection control officers.  It never hurts to wash longer!  And, although this is an OK video for handwashing, Alton is passing along one "fact" that is untrue.  Several outbreaks of drug resistant bacteria in hospitals have been traced back to communal containers of liquid soap.  I know, I was involved in one of them.  Please just take the advice of experts, and stay away from advice from people who are not health professionals.



Arimara said:


> @BattleGnome I've been wondering why they've been saying to wash for twenty seconds all over the place. People really need to take all media with a grain of salt because these people are making you more scared.


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## TheGecko (Mar 19, 2020)

beckster51 said:


> The 20 second wash rule has been around from the CDC for a loooooong time, and it is research based.  So, it is a sound rule to follow.  It is the way hospital workers are taught to wash their hands by infection control officers.  It never hurts to wash longer!  And, although this is an OK video for handwashing, Alton is passing along one "fact" that is untrue.  Several outbreaks of drug resistant bacteria in hospitals have been traced back to communal containers of liquid soap.  I know, I was involved in one of them.  Please just take the advice of experts, and stay away from advice from people who are not health professionals.



I'm almost 60 and it was something we were taught back in Kindergarten


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## CatahoulaBubble (Mar 19, 2020)

beckster51 said:


> The 20 second wash rule has been around from the CDC for a loooooong time, and it is research based.  So, it is a sound rule to follow.  It is the way hospital workers are taught to wash their hands by infection control officers.  It never hurts to wash longer!  And, although this is an OK video for handwashing, Alton is passing along one "fact" that is untrue.  Several outbreaks of drug resistant bacteria in hospitals have been traced back to communal containers of liquid soap.  I know, I was involved in one of them.  Please just take the advice of experts, and stay away from advice from people who are not health professionals.



The outbreaks were from liquid soap not bar soap. Liquid soap can actually harbor bacteria because of the high water content but a dry bar of soap is less likely to have bacteria growth. Alton specifically said Bar soap when stating that there has been no documented case of contamination from soap.


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## Daisy (Mar 19, 2020)

To add to this; how many of us wash and sanitize the liquid soap container before refilling? We keep on adding to old soap whose preservatives might have expired!


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## cmzaha (Mar 19, 2020)

bookreader451 said:


> I bet there is still aloe juice at Walmart.  It is in the pharmacy section near the vitamins.  Use that instead of water.  I do.


Don't forget you can soap with vinegar instead of distilled water or soda, juice etc. Our stores have not been out of vinegar.


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## Arimara (Mar 19, 2020)

beckster51 said:


> The 20 second wash rule has been around from the CDC for a loooooong time, and it is research based.  So, it is a sound rule to follow.  It is the way hospital workers are taught to wash their hands by infection control officers.  It never hurts to wash longer!  And, although this is an OK video for handwashing, Alton is passing along one "fact" that is untrue.  Several outbreaks of drug resistant bacteria in hospitals have been traced back to communal containers of liquid soap.  I know, I was involved in one of them.  Please just take the advice of experts, and stay away from advice from people who are not health professionals.


30 seconds has been taught to me in both hospital and food service.


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## jbedaded (Mar 19, 2020)

bakmthiscl said:


> I came here (belatedly) to point out the same thing.
> And, YES, ordinary "lye soap" (no excess lye needed) will tear bacteria and viruses apart -- given sufficient lathering and rubbing.
> Chemist here, with biochemistry training as well.  I saw an excellent video (on YouTube?  IDK) that described soap's action on the virus.
> This may seem hard to believe, but, by contrast, consider that a patent has been issued for a novel means of generating X-rays -- masking tape!  If you place masking tape in a semi-vacuum (IIRC) and peel the tape off the roll, X-rays (VERY high-energy electromagnetic rays -- like light rays but much higher energy) are generated and can be used to create an X-ray image for medical purposes.  I mention this to illustrate how seemingly ordinary things can have extraordinary effects.
> ...



Avoid reusing those disposable water bottles.  I haven't checked recently, but in the recent past there was concern that reuse could lead to the release of a plasticizer.  I have had to buy those cases of bottles too, to ensure I had water when I needed it.  They expand when they freeze and don't break -- a consideration.  I prefer reusable aluminum bottles, but those burst when they freeze, sometimes even when not full.
Don't forget that you have to replace the soap ingredients.  I have no reliable source of fat, though I've ordered in enough lye for the nonce.  I just use fat from roasts and don't make many of those.
I suggest you meet for sales in a designated area for the purpose.  In my town, that's the lot behind the police station.


Why do you need distilled water?  If it's for soapmaking, just substitute drinking water, or, use the condensate from a dehumidifier.  (Don't use that in a CPAP -- it's "distilled" but by no means sanitary.)
FWIW, if things get desperate getting distilled water for the CPAP, you can make it in limited quantities in a large pot with a dome lid.  I won't go into this now.  Respond if you want the details.[/QUOTE]
I was under the impression that distilled water was preferable for soapmaking....Am I wrong about that?


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## rajni100 (Mar 19, 2020)

No as the detergents disintegrate virus wall


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## David James (Mar 19, 2020)

jbedaded said:


> unfortunately there is a shortage of distilled water where I live in NJ.  I have some, but my husband needs it for his CPAP, which takes precedence over my soapmaking hobby!  I was hoping to fill a lot of my down time making soap but I think that's not going to happen...



No distilled water?

Maybe now is the time to try an all vinegar soap!

I've just done a few, but it is a great way to make hard bars using a softer recipe. And you don't need any water.


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## Steve85569 (Mar 19, 2020)

I was taught the 20 second rule by a front line army medic named Dad. Lather well and then clean from wrist to finger tips. I can't remember how old I was but I do know I couldn't read or write when he taught me.


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## beckster51 (Mar 20, 2020)

CatahoulaBubble said:


> The outbreaks were from liquid soap not bar soap. Liquid soap can actually harbor bacteria because of the high water content but a dry bar of soap is less likely to have bacteria growth. Alton specifically said Bar soap when stating that there has been no documented case of contamination from soap.



Yes, I understand that he was primarily talking about his bar soap, but he made a statement that germs cannot live in/on soap.  I think my point was that basically Alton should stay away from giving healthcare advice.  I understand people are well intentioned, but that is not his area of expertise.  And yes, you can culture bacteria and viruses off a bar of wet soap.  He says it has not been done, it has.  I know everyone is stressed out, so let's not get into an argument.  The public should be taking advice from healthcare experts only, not celebrities, IMHO.


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## Misschief (Mar 20, 2020)

beckster51 said:


> The public should be taking advice from healthcare experts only, not celebrities, IMHO.


The unfortunate thing is, though, that the "public" will listen to celebrities where they might not listen to healthcare experts as readily. Celebrities are "trusted" because they're known. The healthcare experts could take note of that and start using the celebrities to spread their message.


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## amd (Mar 20, 2020)

beckster51 said:


> And yes, you can culture bacteria and viruses off a bar of wet soap.


I have been looking for evidence to support this and haven't found it. Do you have a source?
What I have found is several online articles making similar claims that bar soap harbors virus/bacteria/germs - but most of them don't define what type of soap or if it is all inclusive. The closest to a reference of soap type I could find is below
https://www.self.com/story/bar-soap-sanitary-or-germy
in this paragraph






However, we know that surfactant soaps also have a lower pH. Now, my little soapmaker mind is thinking... if the reason that milk, food purees, or other finely ground food additives don't spoil in soap is because of the pH, how does that affect virus/bacteria/germs? And that's where the limit of my science reasoning ends. I don't know enough about viruses or germs to definitively say if pH has an impact, or even if the pH on the surface of a used soap bar remains the same as unused soap. But what I would really be interested in seeing is data or summary of information collected from handmade lye based soap.


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## Sally Scheibner (Mar 20, 2020)

bookreader451 said:


> I had a Dept. of Health official tell me I need to set up shop.  He said hand soap is the next shortage.  He obviously hasn't seen my basement.



I’m almost out of sodium hydroxide aka that evil word , LYE.  Sooo many lay people run when I try to explain the science behind saponification. So... we NEED to come up with a concise easy to understand ‘sign’ statement on  how soap is safe to use & WORKS to dissolve emplode & destroy the surface cell membranes on contact!!!


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## Steve85569 (Mar 20, 2020)

Sally Scheibner said:


> I’m almost out of sodium hydroxide aka that evil word , LYE. Sooo many lay people run when I try to explain the science behind saponification. So... we NEED to come up with a concise easy to understand ‘sign’ statement on how soap is safe to use & WORKS to dissolve emplode & destroy the surface cell membranes on contact!!!



The folks at mu local Ace Hardware will get lye from the back room for me.

Then wait at the cash register to see how many bars of soap I brought with me.

It's not bribery, I swear...


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## Nona'sFarm (Mar 20, 2020)

jbedaded said:


> I was under the impression that distilled water was preferable for soapmaking....Am I wrong about that?


Yes, use distilled water or some other approved liquid like vinegar.
Drinking water can contain trace minerals and metals that interact in undesirable ways with the lye.


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## David James (Mar 21, 2020)

Sally Scheibner said:


> I’m almost out of sodium hydroxide aka that evil word , LYE.  Sooo many lay people run when I try to explain the science behind saponification. So... we NEED to come up with a concise easy to understand ‘sign’ statement on  how soap is safe to use & WORKS to dissolve emplode & destroy the surface cell membranes on contact!!!



Yeah, that definitely needs to be worked out. Real soap can only be made with something strongly alkaline. In the US it is part of the legal definition of soap. Soap has been made like this for about 4000 years.

I think we need to come up with some good comparisons to things that people understand.

Is there lye in your soap? Is there boiling water in your jello? Is there high pressure, high temperature steam in popcorn? Is there dangerous bacteria in chicken? 

The answer is no. These things were temporarily there and consumed or killed or otherwise just all gone.

Just need a comparison to some parallel thing that they already understand.

More ideas?


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## rdc1978 (Mar 21, 2020)

bookreader451 said:


> I had a Dept. of Health official tell me I need to set up shop.  He said hand soap is the next shortage.  He obviously hasn't seen my basement.



I went to Target on Monday right before our shelter in place, and I was shocked to see that they were starting to run out of regular bar soap (but not dove for some mysterious reason).  They still had a good amount of liquid bath soap, but the bar soap was really low.  So there may be some wisdom in what you've heard!

I'm sitting on a gold mine, but can't even leave my house!



Nona'sFarm said:


> Yes, use distilled water or some other approved liquid like vinegar.
> Drinking water can contain trace minerals and metals that interact in undesirable ways with the lye.



That's interesting, the first (and only) book I was given said filtered water and so I thought purified and spring water were fine.  I've always used those and never thought they were a problem.  

I'll have to keep it up because the only way I'll get water now is to take empty gallon containers to the refill station at sprouts.


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## Susie (Mar 21, 2020)

Steve85569 said:


> I was taught the 20 second rule by a front line army medic named Dad. Lather well and then clean from wrist to finger tips. I can't remember how old I was but I do know I couldn't read or write when he taught me.



I wash taught to wash my hands properly from an army/VA nurse named Mama.  I was taught how to properly wash for 20 seconds by singing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star (or the ABC song or Happy Birthday) twice.  I was able to completely skip the whole handwashing unit of nursing school by properly demonstrating it on day 1.  The instructor asked if anyone thought they knew how (with a smirk on her face), and I raised my hand.  She later told me that in all her 24 years of making that offer, I was the first person to actually do it. 

As far as the length of time goes, each 5 seconds is one part of the task.

First 5 seconds, rub your palms and fingers together.
Second part, rub the back of the left hand/thumb for 2.5, rub the back of the right hand/thumb for 2.5 seconds.
Third, interlace your fingers and rub with one thumb closest to you for 2.5 seconds, change positions so that the other thumb is closer to you for the next 2.5 seconds.
Last, cup one hand so that the tips of your fingers and then the flats of your nails rub across the other palm, then alternate hands for the last 5 seconds. 

If you sing while you are doing that, the part of the verse when you switch tasks becomes so ingrained in your brain, you no longer need a real timer.


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## Nona'sFarm (Mar 21, 2020)

Susie said:


> I wash taught to wash my hands properly from an army/VA nurse named Mama.  I was taught how to properly wash for 20 seconds by singing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star (or the ABC song or Happy Birthday) twice.  I was able to completely skip the whole handwashing unit of nursing school by properly demonstrating it on day 1.  The instructor asked if anyone thought they knew how (with a smirk on her face), and I raised my hand.  She later told me that in all her 24 years of making that offer, I was the first person to actually do it.
> 
> As far as the length of time goes, each 5 seconds is one part of the task.
> 
> ...


Great tutorial!


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## beckster51 (Mar 21, 2020)

amd said:


> I have been looking for evidence to support this and haven't found it. Do you have a source?
> What I have found is several online articles making similar claims that bar soap harbors virus/bacteria/germs - but most of them don't define what type of soap or if it is all inclusive. The closest to a reference of soap type I could find is below
> https://www.self.com/story/bar-soap-sanitary-or-germy
> in this paragraph
> ...



Let me start my reply by stating that I do not intend to be snarky in any way in this reply.  It is often difficult to write down information in a way that other people do not take offense, so please don't.  Let me state my credentials.  I am an advanced degree nurse who has worked in every specialty over the course of my lengthy career except OB and peds.  As a Chief Nursing Officer and Chief Operating Officer, I supervised many departments in the hospital where this occurred.  We had an outbreak that we traced back to one specific patient, and we were able to culture the offending bacteria from the liquid soap and the bar soap that the patient had been using.  While we reported this to the powers that be, we did not publish an article about it.  So, I don't have a source for the fact that bacteria and germs can live on soap, but I have personally experienced it.  You can certainly go to the NIH, NLM, NCBI, or CDC websites and research it, but I am not going to do that.  It's easy for me to fall into the research vortex, and I currently do not have time to do that.

I am personally offended when people, who have the ability to get attention through their celebrity, try to educate people about things they know little about.  Everyone should stick to giving advice about what s/he has been educated to do. ( I did not go to the CIA, so I am not likely to do a video telling people how to cook, although I am a decent home cook.) He did not mention some very important things in the video, such as friction, which is one of the more important aspects of handwashing.  He also makes mistakes in recontaminating his hands during the video after he has washed.  For example, if you pick up a ziplock bag off an extremely nasty bathroom counter in a public place, you have just recontaminated your hands!  That's a very bad idea!  He has just "undone" his handwashing.   I could give other examples, but that's enough critique.

Bacteria and germs do not behave alike, and individual strains of either may not behave like other germs and bacteria.  I don't think that it is a frequent occurrence that bacteria that are of any harm are living on soap, but it is a capital idea to keep your soap dry between uses and not to put it in a closed container while wet.  It is also not a good idea to deal in absolutes and state that germs and bacteria cannot live somewhere.  They are everywhere!  And while it is not likely to find them in some environments, it is foolhardy to say it can never happen.  I'm glad that people found his video helpful, but he is not an expert, and he has said and exhibited some things that are untrue or of very poor technique.  If you cannot tell that this whole issue is a pet peeve of mine, you haven't been paying attention - LOL.  It can be dangerous to make assumptions and give inaccurate information to the public.


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## DeeAnna (Mar 21, 2020)

@amd -- "..._I have been looking for evidence to support this and haven't found it. Do you have a source?_..."

There's a good body of reputable studies that show microbial organisms can and do live on bar soap. By my use of "soap" I mean true soap made with lye and fat, not a syndet cleanser. Whether the presence of microorganisms on bar soap is a problem is another story -- the studies I have don't try to measure that risk.

My opinions, and only my opinions -- Bar soap is fine for routine hand washing. For hand washing in high risk situations where your hands must absolutely be as sanitary as possible, bar soap is not acceptable. I'd also say liquid soaps or cleansers in refillable dispensers are also not acceptable. Contamination in refillable dispensers has definitely been linked to health problems at least in a hospital setting -- I seem to recall our Susie has personal experience with that happening. It looks to me like a cleanser dispensed from a sealed one-time-use sanitary container is the only acceptable cleanser in a high-risk situation.

Here are a few studies that report finding microbes on bar soap. I'm sure you can find more if you look. Bolding and comments in brackets [ ] are mine --

"...*microorganisms, which are ubiquitous in the environment, have been isolated from in-use *[Dial]_ *soap bars*... [Our] findings, along with other published reports, show that little hazard exists in routine handwashing with previously used soap bars and support the frequent use of soap and water for handwashing to prevent the spread of disease_...."

Heinze JE, Yackovitch F. Washing with contaminated bar soap is unlikely to transfer bacteria. Epidem. Inf. (1988), 101, 135-142.

"..._*bar soaps*_ _*are in direct contact with bacteria on skin, and organisms were found to survive on bar soaps which were continually in use*.... Compared with bacterial populations on hands, which may range up to 105 organisms per cm2 of skin (9), the numbers of bacteria found on bar soaps_ [Dial and Ivory] _were not large. Furthermore, the populations did not progressively increase throughout the 1-week test period, indicating that the organisms were continually being removed, either by self-sterilization or mechanically.... Soaps containing antibacterials were as susceptible to bacterial carriage as those without_...."

McBride ME. Microbial Flora of In-Use Soap Products. APPLIED AND ENVIRONMENTAL MICROBIOLOGY, Aug. 1984, p. 338-341

"_Bar and liquid soaps from 26 public lavatories were investigated for microbial colonies. Of 84 samples
obtained from *bar soaps*_ [types unknown]_*, 100% yielded positive cultures*; liquid soaps were essentially negative (3/39).... . Qualitatively, bar soaps were found to harbour 2 to 9 different genera of organisms per bar_...."

Kabara JJ, Brady MB. Contamination of bar soaps under "in-use" conditions. J Environ Pathol Toxicol Oncol. 1984 Jul; 5(4-5):1-14.

"..._Bar soap from 18 different dental clinics were investigated for microbial contamination, while it was "in-use". *Of the 32 samples obtained from the bar soap*_ [type unknown]_*, 100% yielded positive culture*. A total of 8 different genera of organisms were isolated. Each bar soap was found to harbor 2-5 different genera of micro organisms. Heavily used soap had more micro organisms compared to less used soap. The microbial load of the "in-use" bar soap constituted a mixed flora of gram positive, gram negative, aerobes, anaerobes, and fungi_...."

Hegde P P, Andrade A T, Bhat K. Microbial contamination of "In use" bar soap in dental clinics. Indian J Dent Res 2006; 17:70


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## beckster51 (Mar 21, 2020)

DeeAnna said:


> @amd -- "..._I have been looking for evidence to support this and haven't found it. Do you have a source?_..."
> 
> There's a good body of reputable studies that show microbial organisms can and do live on bar soap. By my use of "soap" I mean true soap made with lye and fat, not a syndet cleanser. Whether the presence of microorganisms on bar soap is a problem is another story -- the studies I have don't try to measure that risk.
> 
> ...



Thank you, Dee Anna for providing good information!  He also said that antibacterial soap is of no use, and that is not true either.  It depends... as so many things in life do.  As usual, you have provided data driven information, and that is why you are so respected by the members of this forum.


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## DeeAnna (Mar 21, 2020)

I think it's been pretty soundly proven that typical antibacterial ingredients such as triclosan are ineffective. Even the McBride study I referenced above found _"...Soaps containing antibacterials were as susceptible to bacterial carriage as those without..."_

If you're talking about antibacterial soap or cleansers used in a hospital setting, that's another story, and I can't speak to that.


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## beckster51 (Mar 21, 2020)

Yes, I think it has been proven that they have limited use in hospitals, but general use is not useful and is discouraged.


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## Susie (Mar 22, 2020)

Y'all are fixating on whether or not "germs" can live on or in soap (they can, it has been proven of all types of soap) and completely missing the point that when used properly, even "contaminated" soap can and does remove 99.9% of "germs" from hands if you wash your hands with it using proper handwashing technique.  It is the surfactant property mixed with the friction and length of handwashing that does the trick.  This is why handwashing works and continues to be the #1 method of removing "germs" from hands for all healthcare institutions.  And it is why I didn't have a single drop of alcohol gel in my house until all this started.  I now own some, and use it frequently at work, and we both use it when we go to the store for anything.


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## earlene (Mar 22, 2020)

DeeAnna said:


> @amd -- "..._I have been looking for evidence to support this and haven't found it. Do you have a source?_..."
> 
> There's a good body of reputable studies that show microbial organisms can and do live on bar soap. By my use of "soap" I mean true soap made with lye and fat, not a syndet cleanser. Whether the presence of microorganisms on bar soap is a problem is another story -- the studies I have don't try to measure that risk.
> 
> ...


 
This is correct.  When working in my former life as an RN, our Infectious Disease Nurse talked about why we moved to liquid hand soap in dispensers, and it was because bar soap, left wet and pooled in a non-draining soap dish, did in fact harbor non-desirable microbial growth.  This was back in the 80's or 90's when my hospital made that switch from bar soap.

It is another reason it is so important to use  a soap saver type of soap dish so that the soap dries completely between uses.

I have also noticed that more intensive handwashing even with a soap saver some bars of soap seem to remain more soggy than others.  So I have switched between bars at my DIL's house, when I find one bar it too soggy.  (I am Temporarily between San Antonio & the Houston area because of my granddaughter's school closure.)


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## DeeAnna (Mar 22, 2020)

Susie said:


> Y'all are fixating on whether or not "germs" can live on or in soap (they can, it has been proven of all types of soap) and completely missing the point that when used properly, even "contaminated" soap can and does remove 99.9% of "germs" from hands if you wash your hands with it using proper handwashing technique....



Speaking for myself, I'm not fixating on "germs" on bar soap. I'm just trying to provide references to answer a question that someone asked.

There's a bar of soap at every sink of my house, and I don't give a hoot about what microbes happen to be living on the surface of the soap. What I do give a hoot about is that the soap gets used and hands get washed.

Bar soap is fine in a home or other low-risk setting because you're absolutely right, Susie -- proper handwashing with any kind of soap is what works.


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## Mobjack Bay (Mar 22, 2020)

Someone mentioned above that not all germs are the same.

Some, but not all, bacteria and viruses have an outer membrane made of lipids.  The virus that causes covid-19 has a lipid membrane as shown in a diagram that was published in the New York Time last week.

Pall Thordarson, the scientist referred to in the NYT article, pointed out that lipids (fatty acids) in the soap interact with and can pry open (disrupt, break) the lipid membrane of the virus.  When this happens, the virus is inactivated.

Based on my limited reading this morning, I’ve learned that lipids occurring naturally, or as additions, have also been shown to inactivate viruses in breast milk, infant formulas, and even the mucus in our noses.  Lipid disruption of the outer membrane of microbes is one of the explanations for inactivation, but there are others.

I’m looking more closely at publications by researcher Halldor Thormar (see Google Scholar search here) and a collection of contributed chapters by university researchers in a book he edited. The book is *Lipids and Essential Oils as Antimicrobial Agents, *available through Google Books, here*:*
https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=6ZepRgMaa2gC&oi=fnd&pg=PT9&dq=
virus+lipid+soap+disruption&ots=XBzqRiLrdZ&sig=BbjskW9Sj1kEg8WIFpO_5fL_XvM#v=onepage&q=virus lipid soap disruption&f=false

I put a break in the link for the book (between “=“ and “virus”) because the post was otherwise not adjusting to the margins properly on my screen.


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## beckster51 (Mar 22, 2020)

Susie said:


> Y'all are fixating on whether or not "germs" can live on or in soap (they can, it has been proven of all types of soap) and completely missing the point that when used properly, even "contaminated" soap can and does remove 99.9% of "germs" from hands if you wash your hands with it using proper handwashing technique.  It is the surfactant property mixed with the friction and length of handwashing that does the trick.  This is why handwashing works and continues to be the #1 method of removing "germs" from hands for all healthcare institutions.  And it is why I didn't have a single drop of alcohol gel in my house until all this started.  I now own some, and use it frequently at work, and we both use it when we go to the store for anything.



Susie, I am not fixating on anything other than people getting correct information.  That is my whole reason for commenting on this thread.  Certainly handwashing, and correct handwashing, is our best and most effective way of deterring this type of disease in the public forum.  I am sorry that my desire to correct the information in the video has led to disagreement here.  I just thought that telling people that they were germ free in any scenario might give them unwarranted confidence when we all need to remain vigilant.  I don't use hand sanitizer either.  There is a bar of soap at every sink in my house, and my membership here should attest to my soap devotion.


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## Mobjack Bay (Mar 22, 2020)

Two weeks ago, our university president asked members of our community to “assume positive intent” as we interact with others through this crisis.  Although I miss the mark sometimes, I have been trying to remember to keep that guidance at the forefront for every interaction I have.


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## jbedaded (Mar 22, 2020)

David James said:


> No distilled water?
> 
> Maybe now is the time to try an all vinegar soap!
> 
> I've just done a few, but it is a great way to make hard bars using a softer recipe. And you don't need any water.


Being a relatively new soapmaker, I've never heard of using vinegar in soap.  Do you substitute 1:1 for water?


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## atiz (Mar 22, 2020)

jbedaded said:


> Being a relatively new soapmaker, I've never heard of using vinegar in soap.  Do you substitute 1:1 for water?


If you do a search for 'vinegar' on this forum you'll find a lot of threads that discuss this. Yes, you can substitute it up to 1:1 for water (or you can also just substitute part of your water), but you'll need to adjust your lye amount since the vinegar reacts with some. The soapmakingfriend calculator will do the calculation for you but you can also find the formula on the forum somewhere (I don't know it from the top of my head).


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## Noreen Moore (Mar 23, 2020)

Happy I got a canceled shift today! I was originally scheduled at ground zero! The dedicated Covid-19 floor! So I am going to make more soap today! I unmolded and sliced my first goats milk soap yesterday!
My hospital is also making our own hand sanitizer! And I like it better than the brand we get! 
I have a shoe box full of soap I was going to bring in to work. 
I kinda want to drop some off at the homeless shelter near my work, but these unfortunate folks have been SICK and coming to my hospital... So I have reservations about going there! Oh what to do...
My renter I have knows of course I am an RN. 
Where did HE get the N95? When he comes out of his room and mingles with me... He wears his N95!!!


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## amd (Mar 23, 2020)

beckster51 said:


> Let me start my reply by stating that I do not intend to be snarky in any way in this reply. It is often difficult to write down information in a way that other people do not take offense, so please don't.


I hope you didn't take offense at my asking the question... that wasn't my intention. Trust me, when I plan to insult you, you'll know, and I'll likely be banned from the thread. Also, your reply didn't provide any sources for my question.



beckster51 said:


> I am personally offended when people, who have the ability to get attention through their celebrity, try to educate people about things they know little about.


I haven't watched the video, so honestly, I could care less who is promoting handwashing. 



DeeAnna said:


> There's a good body of reputable studies that show microbial organisms can and do live on bar soap.


Thank you, DeeAnna, for the sources. I did a quick Google search, read through three pages of articles and couldn't find any references to actual studies that I could further search for, so I appreciate your clarifications. Although it really doesn't answer my question regarding the pH affect, I'm over my momentary curiosity, so I don't particularly care to delve further.



Susie said:


> Y'all are fixating on whether or not "germs" can live on or in soap


I'm sorry I asked a question.


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## Serena (Mar 24, 2020)

If I run out of distilled water, I will try reverse osmosis water.  There are water stores here which sell it in gallon jugs, and a health food store which has a reverse osmosis machine.  They have a bring-your-own-jug system.  Perhaps a quarter or fifty cents per gallon.



bakmthiscl said:


> ...
> 
> Why do you need distilled water?  If it's for soapmaking, just substitute drinking water, or, use the condensate from a dehumidifier.  (Don't use that in a CPAP -- it's "distilled" but by no means sanitary.)
> *FWIW, if things get desperate getting distilled water for the CPAP, you can make it in limited quantities in a large pot with a dome lid.  I won't go into this now.  Respond if you want the details.*



I am very interested in making distilled water.  When you have time to post about this, I would appreciate it.  Thanks very much.


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## Mobjack Bay (Mar 24, 2020)

Mobjack Bay said:


> Someone mentioned above that not all germs are the same.
> 
> Some, but not all, bacteria and viruses have an outer membrane made of lipids.  The virus that causes covid-19 has a lipid membrane as shown in a diagram that was published in the New York Time last week.
> 
> ...


One of the US drug trials that is about to start for COVID-19 treatments will test whether or not a mixture of two synthetic compounds administered via inhalation can “wake up” natural defense mechanisms in the lungs.  An interesting thing that caught my eye about one of the compounds is that it has two 16:0 fatty acids hanging off the side.  The other compound is a polypeptide.


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## ThinLizzie59 (Mar 24, 2020)

In regards to the use of condensate from a dehumidifier.  Please do not mistake that water as a good alternative!  There is lead soldering around the copper coils.  If you read the manual for the dehumidifier you will find that they warn you not to attempt to use or drink that water because it is contaminated, and should be disposed of!  I won’t go into details here.  However, the idea of making your own distilled water using boiling water and lid to catch......” is a safe method.  We still have plenty of snow on the ground, some of you should be getting rain now,  if filtered through a coffee filter to remove the inevitable air-borne debris....you are good to go!


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## Noreen Moore (Mar 25, 2020)

I just dispersed oodles of bars of soap to my co-workers before I bailed out of the hospital on a low need day.  Second panic attack en route to work. Not liking this situation. I am normally a bit more stoic and fearless! This is breaking me down emotionally! So I feel good about dispersing the soap. Everyone got the same message. Have a free bar of homemade soap. Wash your hands, stay healthy and know I love you! 
So today to calm my nerves... I will make another batch of soap! And maybe another... and another...

Wal-Mart still has aloe vera gel by the gallon! I use that now instead of distilled water.  Curious about the vinegar soaping! Put that on my to do list!


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## TheGecko (Mar 25, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> Don't forget you can soap with vinegar instead of distilled water or soda, juice etc. Our stores have not been out of vinegar.



Vinegar?  What does it do to the soap?  I just happen to have two gallons of White Vinegar.


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