# Lye Mix and Oils Temperature- Does it really matter?



## Tais

Hi everyone!

I am still not sure if mixing lye and oils at a certain temperature makes a big difference.

I used to mix my lye and oil at around 40C, few weeks ago I try to just mix them and see if it would change anything on the soap.

So far, I can't see much of a change, the colour looks different, but I did change the percentage of one of the oils....

I would love to know what other soap makers think about that 

Have a great weekend!


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## Susie

I only worry about temperature if I am swirling.  If I am not, I soap as hot as possible to speed trace.  Or I mix the lye and water and use that to melt my oils.  So, no, you really need not worry about temperature.


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## SaltedFig

I did try using a thermometer once, a few years after I started soaping, just to see what the fuss was all about and promptly decided it was a waste of time.

In winter I tend to soap a bit hotter, because I like working with the warm. In summer it's just as cool as the oils will go without setting. I masterbatch my lye, and I don't warm that at all.

So I agree that you don't need to worry too much.


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## Kittish

About the only thing I make sure of, temperature wise, is that my lye solution is below 150*F. Other than that, as long as my oils are fully melted I don't worry about it.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

It's not such a big deal, unless you want to achieve something particular. 

I understand why the beginner guides suggest a temperature to aim for - if they didn't, there would be a huge question mark for many people. Better to have a safe, middle of the road figure in there than nothing at all


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## Susie

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> It's not such a big deal, unless you want to achieve something particular.
> 
> I understand why the beginner guides suggest a temperature to aim for - if they didn't, there would be a huge question mark for many people. Better to have a safe, middle of the road figure in there than nothing at all



While I agree that the beginner guides need to say something, I think they could say, "don't go above X if you want to swirl" or, "be sure you stay above X if you are using solid at room temperature oils".  This repeated emphasis on having it 110 F to 120 F is totally misleading, and I think it adds one more unnecessary confusion to the whole starting-to-soap process.  I know it did for me.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Aye, but then would others be over challenged by talk of swirling and the various options open when it comes to temps?  Maybe something like "For this recipe as a starter, we suggest mixing your oils and lye at around 40 Celsius.  While the temperature at which you should mix is not a set rule (we will post another guide for exploring the reasons for soaping at certain temperatures later) this temperature is a good point to aim for in this case."


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## penelopejane

If you soap too cool you might have problems with swirls of unmelted hard oils and stearic spots.


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## Susie

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Aye, but then would others be over challenged by talk of swirling and the various options open when it comes to temps?  Maybe something like "For this recipe as a starter, we suggest mixing your oils and lye at around 40 Celsius.  While the temperature at which you should mix is not a set rule (we will post another guide for exploring the reasons for soaping at certain temperatures later) this temperature is a good point to aim for in this case."



How many times have we answered the same question?  Loads and loads.  (Nor that it did not need to be answered again, there are new newbies reading the forum every day!)  I think beginners who are intelligent enough to follow a recipe are intelligent enough to understand swirling and hard oils.  Or hopefully so, anyway.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Hopefully!

I totally agree that just stating a temperature with nothing more is often an issue, but temperature is such a deep topic that it can't be covered well as a side topic in some instructions for making soap. Either way, it's better than just saying "oils and lye have to be mixed at X degrees"


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## Arimara

I find that if you are making a milk soap or if you are using certain oils, like lard, temperature can make a difference. If I made a lard soap, I try to make sure that I only heat that oil enough to where it is completely melted, not much over 120F (the lye will be anywhere between room temperature to 100F). If I make milk soaps, the lye and the oils will be roughly between 100 and 110F. You may be able to work around that with milk powders but they still contain sugars in them.


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## Tais

Thanks for everyone that put the comments here. 

I know that temperature will be important depending on what you intend to design.

What I wanted to know was the opinion regarding temperatures. Cause I've noticed there are lots of books where some people are really specific about temperature. One I read a while ago, the author was very specific in mixing lye and oils in the exact temperature. 

So, thanks again for your comments  And sorry if this question is being answered over and over again. I've searched in the forum before I post my question and  I couldn't find it. I try to be more specific next time 

Enjoy your Sunday! Is a lovely one here in South Australia!


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## DeeAnna

There is one safety issue about temperatures I want to mention. I know it's an unlikely scenario, but someone posted on SMF about this exact issue not all that long ago. Apparently the soaper's crock pot was improperly heating the oils way too hot. I'd guess the temp of her fats at the time she started soaping was somewhere around 200 F (95 C) or more.

The soaper slowly poured cooler lye solution into this very hot fat. The lye solution naturally dropped to the bottom of the container and rapidly heated and turned into steam. The resulting geyser of steam blew hot lye and fat all over the kitchen. It was a minor miracle no one was hurt!

Moral of that experience -- do not add coolish lye to really hot fat! You'd be safer adding boiling hot lye to cool fat than the other way around, not that I'm recommending that either.

I know this is not the situation y'all are talking about here, but I thought it was worth mentioning. Sometimes people try some extreme methods (the "fluid hot process" method comes to mind) and problems do happen (like malfunctioning crock pots) so I thought it was worth mentioning that there are some outer limits to keep in mind.


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## lenarenee

Recently I've soaped with lye water that had been sitting for a couple of days. The oils were warm enough to be pleasant on the skin. All of those soaps, at cutting,
felt a little dry and powdery/gritty feeling instead of creamy.  I normally use warm lye solution.  However, I had also used sodium lactate (rarely use it) at 1 tsp per lb of oil.  I've wondered if there is a connection in texture change.


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## Susie

Tais said:


> So, thanks again for your comments  And sorry if this question is being answered over and over again. I've searched in the forum before I post my question and  I couldn't find it. I try to be more specific next time



Do not apologize!  We are happy to repeat the information!  And you asked it in a way that brought up more than a yes or no answer.  There are new people lurking that are not going to ask this very important question.  They need the information, also.  Thank you for asking it!


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## Tais

*Thank you, Susie *



Susie said:


> Do not apologize!  We are happy to repeat the information!  And you asked it in a way that brought up more than a yes or no answer.  There are new people lurking that are not going to ask this very important question.  They need the information, also.  Thank you for asking it!



Legend!


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## SunRiseArts

I could be wrong, but the one time I soap too hot, if you dare to over mix, be ready for a huge big blob impossible to manage.  I had to throw mine in the crockpot that particular time.


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## Arimara

DeeAnna said:


> There is one safety issue about temperatures I want to mention. I know it's an unlikely scenario, but someone posted on SMF about this exact issue not all that long ago. Apparently the soaper's crock pot was improperly heating the oils way too hot. I'd guess the temp of her fats at the time she started soaping was somewhere around 200 F (95 C) or more.
> 
> The soaper slowly poured cooler lye solution into this very hot fat. The lye solution naturally dropped to the bottom of the container and rapidly heated and turned into steam. The resulting geyser of steam blew hot lye and fat all over the kitchen. It was a minor miracle no one was hurt!
> 
> Moral of that experience -- do not add coolish lye to really hot fat! You'd be safer adding boiling hot lye to cool fat than the other way around, not that I'm recommending that either.
> 
> I know this is not the situation y'all are talking about here, but I thought it was worth mentioning. Sometimes people try some extreme methods (the "fluid hot process" method comes to mind) and problems do happen (like malfunctioning crock pots) so I thought it was worth mentioning that there are some outer limits to keep in mind.



I know this was an accident but for future reference, if anyone finds that they over heated their oils, they are better off waiting however long it takes for the oils to cool down and removing the oils from the heat source. I try not to deviate from more than a 10 degree difference.

By the way, I have added really hot lye (The temp stopped rising) to cooler oils before. Nothing happened outside of faster trace.


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## DeeAnna

Arimara said:


> I know this was an accident but for future reference, if anyone finds that they over heated their oils, they are better off waiting however long it takes for the oils to cool down and removing the oils from the heat source....



I don't think the person realized there was a problem until it was too late. Yes, cooling down the fats would be the solution if you caught the problem in time to make a correction.



Arimara said:


> ...By the way, I have added really hot lye (The temp stopped rising) to cooler oils before. Nothing happened outside of faster trace.



Yes, that is exactly what I would expect. But it's still not a wise thing to do, if only to prevent the batter from tracing unexpectedly too fast.


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## psfred

As DeeAnna said, too high a temperature for the fat and the lye will cause the water to boil when you mix them, and a lye volcano is not a good thing!  Just for safety, it's a good idea to have oils and lye at similar temps and to mix while adding the lye to the oil -- if for some reason it wan't to blow up, fast mixing and not adding any more lye until it settles down will keep the volume under control.

Otherwise, unless you have the temps too low and solid fats start to precipitate out temperature probably only affects the rate at which you get trace (along with everything else that affect rate of trace).

Safety first.  Keep your oil temps below 200F, even for 'fluid HP' or similar things, and be prepared for a volcano if you insist on using hot oils.  I've had one batch foam up, but that was because I was making shave soap at high temp -- the reaction of stearic acid and lye is exothermic.  I stopped adding lye and stirred it down, not really an issue, but I was on the lookout for just that reaction due to the high initial temp.  I use cooler oil now, I'm too old for excess excitement while making soap.


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## SaltedFig

I do a heat check, if I've had to warm my oils, by holding my hand over the top. This check only takes a moment and there's no extra equipment or movement of liquid to worry about.

If I make a small batch of fresh lye, I check the outside of the lye container by hand. When it's comfortably warm to the touch, it's good to go.

I'm not sure where I got my aversion to thermometers ... I think I exploded a glass one a long time ago (hmmm ... an infrared thermometer could be a lot of fun!).


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## Kittish

SaltedFig said:


> I do a heat check, if I've had to warm my oils, by holding my hand over the top. This check only takes a moment and there's no extra equipment or movement of liquid to worry about.
> 
> If I make a small batch of fresh lye, I check the outside of the lye container by hand. When it's comfortably warm to the touch, it's good to go.
> 
> I'm not sure where I got my aversion to thermometers ... I think I exploded a glass one a long time ago (hmmm ... a laser thermometer could be a lot of fun!).



I use an infra-red thermometer to check the temps of my oils and lye, just to make sure they're not too hot. It's got a laser dot that helps with aiming. Takes just a couple of seconds- pick it up, point and press the trigger button. Let go of the button and look at the readout. 

And, I'll admit, it's kind of fun to play with. Can't get a really accurate reading of body temp, since the surface of your skin tends to be a couple of degrees cooler than core temp. But for taking surface temps it's really fun.


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## SaltedFig

Yes ... *infrared* thermometer indeed!

(changed track from levels to thermometers ... ooops )


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## DeeAnna

Be careful how you use IR thermometers. They only read surface temperature, so if you're wanting an accurate temperature of a liquid, be sure to stir it well before measuring the temp. If you measure the temp of a solid (like a loaf of soap while it's saponifying), then you're only going to learn the temp of the surface layer. Not too long ago, a soaper was having trouble with partial gel but insisted her soap didn't gel because her IR thermometer said the molded soap was just barely warm. She didn't realize what was going on ... but we got her set straight.


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## reinbeau

Kittish said:


> I use an infra-red thermometer to check the temps of my oils and lye, just to make sure they're not too hot. It's got a laser dot that helps with aiming. Takes just a couple of seconds- pick it up, point and press the trigger button. Let go of the button and look at the readout.
> 
> And, I'll admit, it's kind of fun to play with. Can't get a really accurate reading of body temp, since the surface of your skin tends to be a couple of degrees cooler than core temp. But for taking surface temps it's really fun.


The issue with this is your getting surface temp only. I stir while  using my infrared, you'll get a better reading.


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## Arimara

DeeAnna said:


> Yes, that is exactly what I would expect. But it's still not a wise thing to do, if only to prevent the batter from tracing unexpectedly too fast.



That's why I'd only consider it for a HP castile, where I know what to expect with OO. I still would urge soapers to use discretion and caution. Hot lye and fast tracing oils can equal a disaster and to couple that with known heaters- you'd be asking for trouble. And since not everything is known about the other fatty acids that make up our oils as far as how they handle saponification, I can't say that I'd totally vouch for hot lye + cooler oils as a good/safe method.


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## Kittish

reinbeau said:


> The issue with this is your getting surface temp only. I stir while  using my infrared, you'll get a better reading.



I do give my oils a stir before I take their temp, but as long as the reading is within 5 degrees or so of the actual temp, it's all good. The lye solution I double check by feeling the bottom of my lye pot after I take its temp.

With it coming on winter here, I think I'm going to kick up my soaping temp by about 15 degrees, though, and mix closer to 130. I did that with the batch I made last night, and it came together really nicely.


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## penelopejane

SaltedFig said:


> I do a heat check, if I've had to warm my oils, by holding my hand over the top. This check only takes a moment and there's no extra equipment.
> 
> I'm not sure where I got my aversion to thermometers ... I think I exploded a glass one a long time ago (hmmm ... an infrared thermometer could be a lot of fun!).



Infrared thermometers make soaping fun and scientific! (I am sure!) 
I measure everything from my mixes to the room where my wrapped soap gels. 

If I'm having problems with soap it's invariably a temperature problem one way or another.


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## IrishLass

penelopejane said:


> If I'm having problems with soap it's invariably a temperature problem one way or another.


 
Same here. I've found temps play a big part in how my formulas behave, such as whether I end up with stearic spots, and/or whether my soaps gel or not, etc...

I use my handy-dandy Thermapen thermometer to keep track of my oil and lye temps before they meet up.


IrishLass


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## DeeAnna

Thermapen rocks!!!! Whoo hoo! :mrgreen:


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## SunRiseArts

I agree with Kittish.  And when I started making soap I was obsess with everything.  But I have calm down.  

If the temperature is 5 degrees off, is not a big deal.  If one poured 1.1 oz of oil, instead in 1 oz, is ok.  With lye, as long as it not passes the correct exact amount, is ok.  If my lye measurement calls for 2.25, and I poured 2.1, is ok.  I superfat at 2 or 3 % so  I have lots of wiggle room.


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## sarasvati

DeeAnna said:


> There is one safety issue about temperatures I want to mention. I know it's an unlikely scenario, but someone posted on SMF about this exact issue not all that long ago. Apparently the soaper's crock pot was improperly heating the oils way too hot. I'd guess the temp of her fats at the time she started soaping was somewhere around 200 F (95 C) or more.
> 
> The soaper slowly poured cooler lye solution into this very hot fat. The lye solution naturally dropped to the bottom of the container and rapidly heated and turned into steam. The resulting geyser of steam blew hot lye and fat all over the kitchen. It was a minor miracle no one was hurt!
> 
> Moral of that experience -- do not add coolish lye to really hot fat! You'd be safer adding boiling hot lye to cool fat than the other way around, not that I'm recommending that either.
> 
> I know this is not the situation y'all are talking about here, but I thought it was worth mentioning. Sometimes people try some extreme methods (the "fluid hot process" method comes to mind) and problems do happen (like malfunctioning crock pots) so I thought it was worth mentioning that there are some outer limits to keep in mind.



This is great advice. Thank you!


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## Arimara

DeeAnna said:


> I don't think the person realized there was a problem until it was too late. Yes, cooling down the fats would be the solution if you caught the problem in time to make a correction.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that is exactly what I would expect. But it's still not a wise thing to do, if only to prevent the batter from tracing unexpectedly too fast.



I've since learned my lesson. Better to be safe and controlled (within reason) than to be sorry from recklessness.


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## Richard Perrine

As a newbie in soap-making, I have quickly learned to ignore the temp of my oils/lye as long as when I am ready to mix that the two are within 10-15-degrees of each other. Also, I wait until my lye/oil mixture is below 120 degrees before I quickly add the EO or natural FOs. I add my mica colors at hot temps as I don't feel it make any difference.


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## Lin19687

Again.......... it also depends on your recipe.  I can't do RT, but I have used 140 oils and 85 Lye no issue.

 Trial and error happens as you learn.  And if you are set on one recipe you will figure out what will NOT work quickly.

ALSO remember that if your FO has a FLASHPOINT, you BETTER know what it is to be on the safe side.
If I have a FO that has a FP of around 150, then I try to soap cooler at 120 or 110


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## DeeAnna

Flash point is the temperature at which the vapor will burn _if exposed to open flame_. If you're a fire fighter or emergency response person, it's important to know these things to properly respond to spills and fires. If you're a supplier, you need to know these things to ship properly. As a soaper, unless you cook your soap over open flame, knowing the flash point is honestly not all that critical from a safety point of view.

Many soapers use the flash point as an indicator of volatility (how fast the scent evaporates), and that's not correct at all.  If you really want to know which scents evaporate quickest, the property you want to know is the vapor pressure, not the flash point.

To control the loss of scent, then add it at the lowest possible temperature that's reasonable for what you're doing and minimize the time at which the scent is at a warm/hot temperature. This advice holds true for all scents, regardless of flash point.


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## yearomare

DeeAnna said:


> There is one safety issue about temperatures I want to mention. I know it's an unlikely scenario, but someone posted on SMF about this exact issue not all that long ago. Apparently the soaper's crock pot was improperly heating the oils way too hot. I'd guess the temp of her fats at the time she started soaping was somewhere around 200 F (95 C) or more.
> 
> The soaper slowly poured cooler lye solution into this very hot fat. The lye solution naturally dropped to the bottom of the container and rapidly heated and turned into steam. The resulting geyser of steam blew hot lye and fat all over the kitchen. It was a minor miracle no one was hurt!
> 
> Moral of that experience -- do not add coolish lye to really hot fat! You'd be safer adding boiling hot lye to cool fat than the other way around, not that I'm recommending that either.
> 
> I know this is not the situation y'all are talking about here, but I thought it was worth mentioning. Sometimes people try some extreme methods (the "fluid hot process" method comes to mind) and problems do happen (like malfunctioning crock pots) so I thought it was worth mentioning that there are some outer limits to keep in mind.



I did this very same thing today (added cooled lye to hot oils in my crock pot) and I could not get emulsification no matter how much I stick blended the stuff.  Fortunately I did not get the geyser of steam that was mentioned here.  I thought it might not be the brightest of ideas, and I totally should have known better, but I decided to give it a try.  Lesson learned, I had to throw the whole mess away.  Next time I get a bright idea (not!) like this I will come to this forum first, like I should have done today.


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## shunt2011

yearomare said:


> I did this very same thing today (added cooled lye to hot oils in my crock pot) and I could not get emulsification no matter how much I stick blended the stuff.  Fortunately I did not get the geyser of steam that was mentioned here.  I thought it might not be the brightest of ideas, and I totally should have known better, but I decided to give it a try.  Lesson learned, I had to throw the whole mess away.  Next time I get a bright idea (not!) like this I will come to this forum first, like I should have done today.



There was something else going on. Using cool lye into warmer oils is not the problem.   I sometimes add room temp lye to oils at 110 or a bit warmer. Never had a problem.


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## Richard Perrine

shunt2011 said:


> There was something else going on. Using cool lye into warmer oils is not the problem.   I sometimes add room temp lye to oils at 110 or a bit warmer. Never had a problem.


I agree. I routinely use room temp lye solution in hot oils with no problems.


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## DeeAnna

@yearomare -- I agree with Shari and Richard. Once the lye and fats are combined, the temperature of the resulting mixture is all that applies. Whether your lye solution was warmer than the fats or vice versa -- this is simply not an issue after these ingredients are mixed together. If your batter didn't emulsify, there is something else amiss.

The geyser thing will only happen if your fat temperature is near or above the boiling point of the water in the lye solution. This is _very unlikely_ to happen. If you're fats were somewhat hotter than your lye solution, but not _that _hot, nothing bad is going to happen. I don't want people to get overly anxious about this issue, because it's only going to be an issue in unusual situations. Like I said in my earlier post, "_... Sometimes people try some extreme methods (the "fluid hot process" method comes to mind) and problems do happen (like malfunctioning crock pots) so I thought it was worth mentioning that there are some outer limits to keep in mind...._"


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## yearomare

shunt2011 said:


> There was something else going on. Using cool lye into warmer oils is not the problem.   I sometimes add room temp lye to oils at 110 or a bit warmer. Never had a problem.


It was indeed odd, and I didn't expect it to happen.  I think my oils were probably a lot hotter than 110, as I was doing hot process soap.  I ended up putting the entire batch into a ziploc bag (after it cooled) and it's still very liquid.  So odd.


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## Dawni

yearomare said:


> It was indeed odd, and I didn't expect it to happen.  I think my oils were probably a lot hotter than 110, as I was doing hot process soap.  I ended up putting the entire batch into a ziploc bag (after it cooled) and it's still very liquid.  So odd.


Maybe it was just plain liquid with no lye? LOL sorry about that but I just came from somewhere else here and read something about someone forgetting to add the lye and not getting trace. 

Anyway.... I'm a newbie but I have not at one time taken temperatures. Should I?!

I wonder if that's the reason I can't get a batch that I'm totally satisfied with. 

I have only been doing HP so far, and I read somewhere (I need to check where) that since everything is going to be heated up anyway it doesn't really matter what temperatures are when you pour the lye into the oils.

My oils have been heating on high to get the butters melted, then I switch it to low and pour the solution in when my lye container is touchable.

I live in a humid, tropical country btw and the house doesn't have central AC, just a multitude of fans lol


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## DeeAnna

_"...it doesn't really matter what temperatures are when you pour the lye into the oils...."_

In a certain sense, this is correct. But as I pointed out earlier, you can take this idea too far -- one can get into serious trouble if the temps are so high that the water in the lye solution vaporizes under the layer of melted fat. HP makers are more likely to get into this kind of situation, compared with CP soap makers who have to be more cautious about the starting temp of the soap batter.

_"...My oils have been heating on high to get the butters melted..."_

You might want to start checking temps before you mix things together. Even a quick check with the palm of the hand can be helpful. If the phone rings or a family member needs attention or you're tired or a little distracted, you could get into trouble if the fats are too hot and you don't check first.


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## Dawni

Hmm... I'll have to add an infrared thermometer to my list of must-buys then.

Oh I also don't mean I don't check at all.
I just meant I don't with any kind of thermometer.
My pain tolerance is extremely high lol so over the years I've learned to gauge temps with my hands, like you mentioned and that's what I've been doing.
It's the reason I melt oils and butters much before I make my lye solution. I feel it cools down somewhat when I switch to low, then I wait a bit more then add my lye solution, which I've checked with my hand above the container as well.
I'm no human thermometer but since it's been said that they don't need to be too close in temps (within 10 degrees or such), I figure a similar heat is safe enough.

I hope that's OK? Buying an IR thermometer might take a while lol...


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## DeeAnna

I suggested using the palm of one's hand in my previous post. I wouldn't have said that if I didn't think that was a valid thing to do. So, yeah, it's okay.

Remember IR thermometers only measure surface temperature. They will not tell you the temp below the surface. If the material is not well stirred right before you check, an IR temp reading won't be as accurate as you might want. With HP soap and other thick, pasty things, it's most likely going to say the temp is cooler than it really is.


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## Dawni

Yes, I mentioned that you mentioned it hehe, I guess I was just clarifying the rest of my "procedure."

Noted on the IR thermometer and surface temps, too. Thanks @DeeAnna


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## earlene

I like my IntraRed Thermometer.  I use it to check the temps of my oven when I do CPOP.  Sometimes I use it while mixing the batter, too, but not anywhere near as often as when I was new.  I also have a regular oven thermometer, freezer thermometers, refrigerator thermometers, meat thermometer and a candy thermometer.  They all get used as needed.

Also my background professions required me to use thermometers on a daily basis, so it's something that just made a whole lot of sense to me to use when I read it in soap making literature.  Granted there's a lot more leeway than some of the literature suggests, but for some folks who don't feel comfortable without precise instructions that's a good thing.

Have you ever tried to convince such a person to add a 'little of this' and 'a little of that' or 'spice to taste' when cooking and it completely throws them off balance?  Some folks really need precision, so I think it's okay to allow them their need for precise instructions and precise measurements, even when it comes to temperature.   Just as it's okay to say, no you don't really need a thermometer when making soap.  But there are some who may never feel comfortable without a back-up thermometer and that's okay.


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## mawarliar

I did experienced once, using a hot lye plus a hot oil in a crockpot.. ( they both average in the same temperature ) and ends up having a volcano..
I did make a hp soap, so having a volcano with about half the recipe going to waste and the other half being a failure..

I honestly think that temperature is important but not crucial that it has to be precisely mentioned..


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## maria kavathas

please help, first time making cp soap everything  went wrong
 the oils and lye water were at 80f trace were very delayed, finally soap is in individual molds tree days later still very soft impossible to unfold. the other strange thing that happen is the lye I used I discover later on, does not sting to touch. I made some lye water to tested out and put my finger in it , nothing happent!!!! Is it posable that the lye is inactive?
When I was making the soap lye water got to 200f temp. I took I little soap to test it and it makes suds like soap but is very very soft, what can I do to save all these oils?

can you have inactive lye?


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## atiz

maria kavathas said:


> please help, first time making cp soap everything  went wrong
> the oils and lye water were at 80f trace were very delayed, finally soap is in individual molds tree days later still very soft impossible to unfold. the other strange thing that happen is the lye I used I discover later on, does not sting to touch. I made some lye water to tested out and put my finger in it , nothing happent!!!! Is it posable that the lye is inactive?
> When I was making the soap lye water got to 200f temp. I took I little soap to test it and it makes suds like soap but is very very soft, what can I do to save all these oils?


More people will be able to help if you post your whole recipe.
Lye water does not necessarily sting to the touch; if it spills on you you may not even notice till minutes later  when it starts burning. What kind of lye did you use? Where did you get it?
I have heard some soaps needing more than 3 days to set up, although it is quite unusual.

ETA: lye can become weaker with time if it absorbs too much moisture. Was it lumpy at all?


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## maria kavathas

the lye was purchased from essential depot .it was in a 2 lb container very securely closed and it was not lumpy at all , I open the container and it pour out very smoothly. the other thing that it it is strange I hold a three day soft soap I'm my hands and it does not burn
the recipe as follows
coconut oil 25%
canola oil 20%
shea butter 20% 
lard 30%castor oil 0.156%
total oils 50 oz
water 15 oz
lye  6.965 oz
fo 5 oz
 is it posable that the temp was very low (80s) that cause this to happen, and is there anything I can do to fix it?


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## SunRiseArts

OMG Never ever again put your finger in the lye water.  You are very lucky you did not get hurt.  Your skin can open up, like when you put fire to plastic.

In your recipe you have your oils in % and your water by weight?  What percentage of water did you use?

You can put them in the freezer for a couple of hours and then unmold.  If they are ok, I am guessing  they still might need a very long curing time.  They will harden eventually if your recipe is ok.  In my experience canola oils takes forever to trace, but I am sure others here will say something else.

From what I gather your oils do not add to 100%.  And even with those percentages your water should be around 35 ounces, and your lye around 13.  If this is the case,  your soaps are going to be so oily, you probably would not want to use them.

I would also suggest to start with a smaller batch next time to test your recipe.

Soaping at 80F I do not think is the problem.  Many soap at room temperature.


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## DeeAnna

@maria kavathas -- I have to say you are fairly likely to get "false trace" when soaping this recipe at that temperature. Shea, lard, and coconut oil all solidify above 80 F and these fats make up 70% of the recipe.

_"...lye water got to 200f temp..."_

Then your alkali is fine. But you should double check the alkali you have -- do you have NaOH or KOH? Let us know, please.

***

I agree with SunRiseArts -- never, _never _stick a body part in lye solution. That's really dangerous.

Since you are a new soap maker, my advice is to make smaller recipes of around 16 oz or 500 grams of fats at the most. Several small batches will get you more experience than one large one. And if you screw up a small batch, you haven't wasted as much of your ingredients.

When giving recipes, please give EVERYTHING in percentages OR in weights. Please don't mix the two. When people have to convert units back and forth, the confusion and inconvenience makes it less likely you will get the help you want.

It's also best when asking for help to start a new thread to ask a new question. That way more people will actually look at it and be more likely to respond. You have a procedural or recipe problem that isn't necessarily all about temperature.


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## maria kavathas

thank you for all you response and advice, I put the soaps in the freezer  to try to unmold them.
my recipe is with sodium hydroxide 

 water  15 oz
 NaOH 6,965 oz
FO 4.69 oz
coconut oil 12.5 oz
canola oil 10 oz
lard 15 oz
castor oil 2.5 oz
shea butter 10 oz

When I unmold  the soaps how would I know if they are good or not? as I stated before I handle them without gloves and they don't burn or sting my hands!!


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## atiz

maria kavathas said:


> thank you for all you response and advice, I put the soaps in the freezer  to try to unmold them.
> my recipe is with sodium hydroxide
> 
> water  15 oz
> NaOH 6,965 oz
> FO 4.69 oz
> coconut oil 12.5 oz
> canola oil 10 oz
> lard 15 oz
> castor oil 2.5 oz
> shea butter 10 oz
> 
> When I unmold  the soaps how would I know if they are good or not? as I stated before I handle them without gloves and they don't burn or sting my hands!!


Your soap, even if soft, may have mostly finished the saponification process, that's why it does not sting. To know whether it is good, you should zap test it for lye heaviness (make it moist and touch your tongue to it quickly -- if it zaps like a battery, then wait for more cure and test again. If it does not zap, then it is safe).

Yes, you might have had false trace. Or might have mismeasured something.

A few strange things that I just noticed, although I did not run your recipe through a lye calculator:
1) your recipe above (post #51) does not add up to 100%. So something is missing?
2) This seems like a huge batch -- 50 oz?? It is best to start out with relatively small ones -- I'd say between 16--32 oz -- so that if something goes wrong you don't waste a lot of ingredients. (ETA: as @DeeAnna said.)
3) Even with such a big batch, your FO seems to be very high, almost 10%. Did you check the safe usage rate? I think most people use around 5--6%, sometimes even less.


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## maria kavathas

hi atiz,
my total oil is 50 oz
the FO is a bit on the heavy side, but  I figure with the lye water the total weight is around 72 oz
 Therefore 4.688 oz of FO   is approximately  6%
I agree that the  50 oz batch is a bit on the big side but all family and friends are waiting for these soaps.
 My question is if I did had a false trace , how this would effect the end resold of the soap?


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## earlene

I really suggest wearing gloves when unmolding as well.  If it wasn't fully saponified yet, it would still be harsh on your skin, even if it doesn't feel that way immediately.  But not only for your own protection, but also to prevent spreading contaminants on the soap that can lead to DOS (dreaded orange spots - that's a whole other topic on its own.)

Obviously I second all precautions about putting bare skin into lye water; way too risky.  Perhaps you need to review lye safety procedures a bit more.

https://www.soapguild.org/how-to/make-soap/lye-safety.php

Also since this is your first soap, perhaps you are not familiar with the zap test.  Here is a link on how to properly perform the zap test.


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## DeeAnna

Your recipe checks out okay. It should make CP soap that is nicely hard within 12-24 hours after being poured in the mold. I have no idea why it's so soft except you have kept the soap very cool. Is there a reason why you felt you needed to do that?

_"...but all family and friends are waiting for these soaps..."_

Your experience here should be a clue that you might not be ready to give your soap away just yet. The old saying holds true with soap making -- the hurrier I go, the slower I get. 

_"...My question is if I did had a false trace , how this would effect the end resold of the soap?..."_

I don't understand what you are asking. Please explain.


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## earlene

I believe it was a typo and the word 'resold' was supposed to be 'result', but I could be wrong.


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## Susie

1.  You are NOT doing your family and friends any favors by giving them soap when you have not learned how to make proper soap yet.  Nor have you learned what your soap will be like when properly cured.  Do NOT give away soap until you have batches you are happy with at least 8 weeks of cure. Make smaller batches, as everyone has said, until you learn how to make good soap.  We all went through that phase, but we all learned better.

2.  You have false trace as @DeeAnna says.  You must soap warmer.  Your soap, as it stands now, is unusable.  If it has only been a couple of days, I would zap test.  If it is zapless, I would throw the batch away.  If it zaps, I would toss it in a crockpot and HP it.  False trace (and you should be capable of looking this term up yourself) is when your hard oils resolidify because the temperature is too low.  It makes the soap look like trace, but it is only lard and shea hardening up.  Which is exactly what you are looking at.

3.  If you are sticking bare skin in lye water, you obviously missed important safety information.  I challenge you to go research the subject carefully.


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## atiz

maria kavathas said:


> hi atiz,
> my total oil is 50 oz
> the FO is a bit on the heavy side, but  I figure with the lye water the total weight is around 72 oz
> Therefore 4.688 oz of FO   is approximately  6%
> I agree that the  50 oz batch is a bit on the big side but all family and friends are waiting for these soaps.
> My question is if I did had a false trace , how this would effect the end resold of the soap?


Well, this is not what makes or breaks a recipe, but we calculate the FO percentages as percentages of the *total oils* and not of the whole batch. Some FO's might cause irritation if used much above the recommended usage rate.  
I agree with the others -- don't give away your soap yet. You can learn to make much better soap with a little practice, and your family will be grateful for it.


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## Rune

@maria kavathas The lye solution will not give you a burning sensation if you put a finger in it. I have done that by mistake (should check the temperature and forgot a minute it was not ordinary water), and it did not burn. I did wash it of really well immediately after realizing what I just had done. And my finger did not fall off, or anything. Nothing happened, really. Perhaps since I did hurry to the sink.

But yes, as all the others say, you must never ever again on purpose put fingers in your lye solution. It is definately not safe. You are not supposed to check if your lye is active or not. Just trust that it is active as long as you have mixed water and lye granules together, in the same way you trust that your baking soda is active when you add it to cake batters. 

Lye safety is really important. And never forget to wear safety glasses or goggles, since a splatter of lye into your eye can give you serious eye damage or make you blind.


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## maria kavathas

dear Susie  the soap is 4 days old ,I just did the zap test and unfortunately it did not zap my tongue. what do I do  now?

I wash my hands with it  and it makes beautiful suds and leaves the skin sooo soft, I just don't understand it???


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## atiz

maria kavathas said:


> dear Susie  the soap is 4 days old ,I just did the zap test and unfortunately it did not zap my tongue. what do I do  now?


The first thing you may want to do is read up on a few pages in the beginners thread.
If the soap did not zap, that means it is safe to use. You will need to cure it for 4--6 weeks for regular use though; it will just get better. But it sounds like a successful soap, after all!


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## penelopejane

maria kavathas said:


> I wash my hands with it  and it makes beautiful suds and leaves the skin sooo soft, I just don't understand it???


I would follow Susie’s instructions in post 60.


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## melinda48

yearomare said:


> It was indeed odd, and I didn't expect it to happen.  I think my oils were probably a lot hotter than 110, as I was doing hot process soap.  I ended up putting the entire batch into a ziploc bag (after it cooled) and it's still very liquid.  So odd.



There is an abundance of excellent information from the very generous people on this forum. I never fail to learn something new here. I will say, however, that I would recommend you purchase a few well-written books on Soapmaking. There are excellent resources out there. I honestly believe that soapmaking is an art and a craft. If you read, you will learn. Read more than one book and if you find discrepancies, ask questions here. 

We all make mistakes, large and small, but I think they are rarely made due to flagrant disregard to the “rules.” Start small and enjoy the process. It will make your Soapmaking most rewarding personally and professionally.


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## Susie

maria kavathas said:


> dear Susie  the soap is 4 days old ,I just did the zap test and unfortunately it did not zap my tongue. what do I do  now?
> 
> I wash my hands with it  and it makes beautiful suds and leaves the skin sooo soft, I just don't understand it???



I would probably set it aside to cure for 6-8 weeks, just as a learning experience.  I would NOT encourage you to give that soap to anyone else, nor would I recommend anyone other than yourself use it.  However, that "sooo soft" feeling is probably excess lye removing outer layers of skin cells.  Neither an intended nor desired outcome of using soap.  Let it cure.  Time will fix any potential lye heaviness.  If you wonder if I saw that you did the zap test, I did, I just don't know if you tested the interior or the exterior of the loaf, and that makes a huge difference.

What you need to do is start at the beginning.  The Beginner's Forum.  Learn about lye safety.  Learn about making a good recipe.  Learn about what others did that did not work.  Ask for recipe help if you are determined to create your own.  I would use someone else's tried and true recipe first so you have a known recipe to compare "your" recipes to.  Believe me, it helps.  Read at least 5-10 pages of threads.  Not of one thread, whole pages of the titles of threads.  Especially anything with the word "Help" in the title.  If you haven't made those errors yet, just wait, you will.  And you need to know how to recognize them and what to do to avoid/fix them.

You can do all this while waiting for that soap to firm up and help you figure out what happened.

Sorry, I know you had envisioned other results from soapmaking, but we all started here, and all of us that persisted got better.  Hang in there, you will too.


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## older69fan

What would happen if I cook and hold for 4 hrs?  Would I get a softer soap?


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## shunt2011

older69fan said:


> What would happen if I cook and hold for 4 hrs?  Would I get a softer soap?



The temp of the oils/lye is irrelevant with HP.  You would be better to start a new thread with your question.  But no, you'll only end up with a really dry soap.  Soap never needs to cook that long.    Also, since it's your first post hop on over to the introduction forum and tell us a bit about yourself.


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