# Geek Tips



## DeeAnna (Nov 2, 2015)

*Geek Tip -- How much glycerin is in soap?*

I posted a "Geek Tip" in another thread today, and one of the participants suggested starting a thread. I don't think I personally can come up with a tip every day, but I know I'm not the only one with useful but rather geeky ideas, so please feel free to chime in with tips of your own.

To get things started, here's my Geek Tip for today:

A quick way to accurately calculate the amount of glycerin created by saponification -- 

About 0.77 gram of glycerin is produced for every 1 gram of NaOH used to make soap. The soap must have a zero to a positive superfat for this to be accurate.

Glycerin weight, grams = (NaOH weight, grams) X 0.77


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## jules92207 (Nov 2, 2015)

This is an awesome idea. If I can contribute you know I will.


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## mymy (Nov 2, 2015)

Yay!


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## Dahila (Nov 2, 2015)

To Calculate  glycerin  in KOH   
KOH X 0.55= glycerin


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## DeeAnna (Nov 3, 2015)

*Geek Tip -- The difference between high-, mid-, and low-oleic oils*

Safflower and sunflower oils are sold in high oleic, mid oleic, and linoleic (regular low oleic) versions depending on the amount of oleic acid in the oil. The differences in the fatty acid content comes from natural variations in sunflower and safflower plants. These differences have been enhanced by conventional plant breeding methods.

Regular low oleic (aka linoleic) oils contain mostly polyunsaturated fatty acids -- specifically linoleic and linolenic acids. These fatty acids become rancid fairly quickly in storage and break down quickly when heated. Mid oleic and high oleic oils contain at least 50% oleic acid, which is a more stable monounsaturated fatty acid. These higher-oleic oils will not break down as fast when used in the kitchen for frying and sauteeing. They work better in soap because they are not as prone to becoming rancid (also called DOS, dreaded orange spots). High oleic safflower or sunflower is a good substitute for olive oil.

So how to tell the difference? First, check the label for phrases such as "good for frying or sauteeing" or "high temperature" or even "high oleic," all of which will tell you the oil is a high oleic version.

If you don't see any helpful information like that, then use the nutrition information to calculate an answer --

    % oleic (monounsaturated) = (grams monounsaturated fat per serving) / (grams total fat per serving) X 100%

    If the monounsaturated fat is above 75%, it is a high-oleic oil.
    If it is between 50% and 70%, it would be a mid-oleic oil.
    If it is about 20%, it would be regular (linoleic) version.


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## afbrat (Nov 3, 2015)

Thanks for that tidbit!  I wondered about that. Have not ventured past lard, CO and OO yet, but I probably will at some point


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## songwind (Nov 4, 2015)

afbrat said:


> Thanks for that tidbit!  I wondered about that. Have not ventured past lard, CO and OO yet, but I probably will at some point



Definitely try out castor oil.


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## BrewerGeorge (Nov 5, 2015)

Not sure if this qualifies as a "geek" tip, but it's certainly a tip:

If you need to freeze milk, coconut milk, beer, or whatever for soaping, forget the ice cube trays.  Instead, pour the liquid into a gallon ziplock bag and lay it *flat* in the freezer.  (Obviously, make triple-sure that the top is closed!  And if you're worried about leaks, use a paperclip to fold up the corners - they mostly only leak from the corners.)  The hugely improved surface area to volume allows it to freeze FAST.  Like, a pint will freeze to hard slush in 20 minutes fast.  Not only that, but once it freezes to the hard slush stage, you can squeeze the bag to break up the ice crystals so it can be scooped out and measured like a paste instead of  1/2 oz blocks of hard ice.

If you don't want to waste the bag (I still cringe every time I throw one away because I'm cheap frugal) you can achieve similar results by pouring the liquid into a thin layer on a plate or sheet pan and using a fork to scrape up the ice crystals.


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## gigisiguenza (Nov 5, 2015)

I like the Ziploc baggie idea and am gonna try it. TY.


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## Susie (Nov 5, 2015)

If you want it to freeze even faster, wrap a damp paper towel around that bag.


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## gigisiguenza (Nov 5, 2015)

Susie said:


> If you want it to freeze even faster, wrap a damp paper towel around that bag.



I do that to get a soda bottle cold quickly, hadn't thought to do it with frozen lyewater alternatives. TY


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## afbrat (Nov 5, 2015)

songwind said:


> Definitely try out castor oil.




It's on my list


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## kumudini (Nov 5, 2015)

BrewerGeorge said:


> Not sure if this qualifies as a "geek" tip, but it's certainly a tip:
> 
> If you need to freeze milk, coconut milk, beer, or whatever for soaping, forget the ice cube trays.  Instead, pour the liquid into a gallon ziplock bag and lay it *flat* in the freezer.  (Obviously, make triple-sure that the top is closed!  And if you're worried about leaks, use a paperclip to fold up the corners - they mostly only leak from the corners.)  The hugely improved surface area to volume allows it to freeze FAST.  Like, a pint will freeze to hard slush in 20 minutes fast.  Not only that, but once it freezes to the hard slush stage, you can squeeze the bag to break up the ice crystals so it can be scooped out and measured like a paste instead of  1/2 oz blocks of hard ice.
> 
> If you don't want to waste the bag (I still cringe every time I throw one away because I'm cheap frugal) you can achieve similar results by pouring the liquid into a thin layer on a plate or sheet pan and using a fork to scrape up the ice crystals.



That's a great tip if you want to freeze something and use. But for people like me who don't want to mix lye with anything other than water, just use 50% lye solution and the rest of the liquid amount for your additive, added directly into oils.


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## DeeAnna (Nov 7, 2015)

*Geek Tip -- First aid for Lye Burns*

For the sake of those who may have heard to use vinegar to treat a lye spill on your body -- that advice is absolutely wrong!

*Never, never, NEVER use vinegar on a lye splash anywhere on your body. Rinse with plenty of plain cool running water. *

***

The correct first aid if you get lye (NaOH or KOH) or raw soap batter on the body is this -- Rinse with plenty of plain cool running water. If you don't have access to clean water, rinse in the nearest mud puddle -- but you have to rinse!

You have SECONDS to react, so MOVE FAST. The quicker and more thoroughly you get the lye rinsed off, the better. Rinse for at least 10 minutes. Remove contacts and contaminated clothing as soon as possible. If the lye is under the fingernails or in other crevices, gently scrub and clean those areas carefully to remove all traces of lye.

If the burn is in or near the eyes, nose, or mouth or is a deep or large burn, see a doctor or emergency room for treatment immediately after you have rinsed well with water. 

Treat small, mild lye burns just as you would any second degree burn. Keep the wound covered and moist with a water-based product. Do not use oily salves, butter, or other fatty stuff on any burn.

***

The geek explanation of why using vinegar is a Very Bad Idea --

Vinegar, an acid, does indeed neutralize lye, an alkali, but there are serious downsides to doing this kind of chemistry directly on the body. 

First, the your skin is already being damaged by the lye. Alkali burn ... ouch!

Adding vinegar to the lye will trigger that neutralization reaction, which releases plenty of heat. If you know how hot your lye solution gets right after you mix the lye with water, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Thermal burn ... ouch!

On top of that, the vinegar itself, being acidic, will irritate the body tissues already injured by the lye and the heat. Acid burn ... more ouch!

All this damage results in intense pain and possibly a deeper, slower healing wound. Yikes!

To make matters worse, lye is a strong alkali and vinegar is a weak acid, so you need to use lots of vinegar in proportion to the amount of lye on the body. If you don't use enough vinegar and don't rinse long enough, the lye will remain active and continue to do its damage.

So if you want an alkali burn + a heat burn + an acid burn + major pain + a slow healing wound ... then by all means, use vinegar. 

I will stick to plenty of cool running water, thank you very much!

***

If it makes you feel better to spray vinegar around your work area and to rinse your utensils with vinegar, then do so. You aren't going to harm anything by using vinegar on non-living things. That said, just a good rinse with water is really all that's needed for them as well.

For cleaning soapy or oily bowls and utensils that may have active lye on them, I wipe the items with old towels to remove excess soap and oil residues and then rinse the items well with water. I use a synthetic detergent cleaner like Dawn and hot water to do a final wash. 

The soapy/oily/alkali-covered towels go into a plastic bucket far out of reach of curious human hands and critter paws. Once the residues have had a day or so to saponify, the towels gets washed with dirty chore clothes.

Everyone has a favorite way of cleaning up their work area and equipment after soaping; this is just my method.


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## afbrat (Nov 7, 2015)

Thank you!  I have read so many different conflicting pieces of advice about vinegar and lye. I am not a science minded person, so it is very hard to cull out bad info. That explanation makes sense!  And thank you for the towels in the bucket idea!  I have a bucket I can use. Will make my clean up easier!


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## SoapSap (Nov 8, 2015)

Thanks. This is good to know.


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## DeeAnna (Nov 9, 2015)

*Geek tip -- Why should you NOT use "full water" in your recipes?*

Many soap recipe calculators have a default "full water" setting of "38% water as % of oils", and that's what a lot of cold process (CP) soapers use. Many do so because they don't realize there are benefits from using less water. Or perhaps a soaping teacher or adviser has mysteriously cautioned against the perils of using "discounted water" recipes. 

I would like to encourage you to try a bit less water when you make CP soap next time, and see what you think.

Why would you want to use less water? Here are some reasons:

... harder soap at the time of unmolding so you can unmold and cut sooner
... batter is faster to come to trace, which is nice for simple recipes or doing higher volume production
... faster rate of saponification which is good for recipes high in unsaturated fats (castile being the prime example)
... less chance of emulsion failure (separation) in the mold
... less likely for the soap to go into gel on its own (less need for fans, fridge, or freezer!)
... less likely to show streaking or mottling (aka glycerin rivers)

That said, a little extra water can sometimes be helpful. Here are some reasons for using more water --

... slower rate of saponification which is good for recipes high in lauric and myristic acids (100% coconut oil being the prime example)
... taming naughty floral and spice fragrances that want to accelerate trace
... batter is slower to come to trace for fancy decorative swirls and such
... more likely for the soap to go into full gel on its own

I will explain how to use less water in the next Geek Tip -- it's pretty simple!

*Geek tip -- How to calculate a recipe with less water*

As I said before, many soap recipe calculators are set to a default of 38% water as % of oils. 

To use less water, I encourage you to change from "water as % of oils" to "lye concentration" and things will be much much easier and more consistent. Pull up your favorite soap calculator and figure out how to do that. For example, in SoapCalc and in Soapee, these settings are contained in Section 3. Click in the round circle to the left of "lye concentration" to change from "water as % of oils" to concentration. Simple!

Next, think about the soap you are planning. When you used the default of 38% water as % of oils, you were creating recipes that used an average lye concentration of about 28%. To make a recipe that uses less water, you will want to make the lye more concentrated -- in other words, you will want to type a larger number for the concentration. 

I suggest you try a 30% lye concentration for your first experience and see what you think. I know -- a change of just 2% doesn't seem like much, but trust me -- a small change in lye concentration can make a definite difference in how your soap behaves. Don't go overboard!

As you get some experience with using less water, you'll soon figure out what basic lye concentration works best for your recipes and your soaping style. Once you find that sweet spot, then you can deliberately vary the lye concentration a bit to best work with various recipes, decorative techniques, accelerating fragrances, and different additives. 

I will give you some numbers that work well for me and the way I soap. Pretty much all of my cold process (CP) soaps are made with 30% to 33% lye concentration. If I want extra time for swirling or if I am using a naughty fragrance, I'll choose a 30% to 31% lye concentration. For a soap without any fancy stuff or for a recipe that naturally moves slowly, I would likely use 33%.

There are exceptions to my general rules of thumb --

... For a castile (100% olive oil) CP soap, I would use a 40% lye concentration to encourage the soap to trace faster
... For hot process (HP) soaps and liquid soaps (LS), I would use 25% lye concentration to allow for water evaporation and easier handling

*Remember -- just a percent or two change in the lye concentration can definitely change how a soap recipe behaves. So you do not need to make big changes in the lye concentration to see definite differences.*

For more information about using lye concentration rather than "water as % of oils", please see this thread:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=54095

...and a related discussion about why curing is not just about evaporation that morphs into a discussion of water content:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=56363

...and finally this detailed discussion:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=53642

*Geek Tip -- What are the SoapCalc numbers?*

I've posted this elsewhere, but I'm adding this info to this thread too--

When evaluating a soap recipe, you can look at the individual amounts of each fatty acid (myristic, lauric, stearic, palmitic, oleic, ricinoleic, linoleic, linolenic, etc) to determine the effect of each fatty acid on the soap ... or you can use the SoapCalc "numbers" to do much the same thing. 

Unfortunately beginning soapers often get confused because the names of the SoapCalc numbers are rather misleading. Another thing beginning soapers do is endlessly tweak a recipe to get certain numbers "just right." The thing to remember is *the fatty acid profile and the SoapCalc numbers are just guidelines*. They do not account for how the soap is made -- hot process, cold process, and all the variations. They do not account for the effect of superfat, water content, or cure time. And they do not account for the effect of any additives (sugar, milk, honey, sodium lactate, etc.)

I want to show you how the SoapCalc "numbers" are calculated, so you can use these numbers more effectively. To keep this explanation simple, I am going to choose a single fat -- cocoa butter -- and pretend as if I am going to make a soap from this fat. 

Cocoa butter has a fatty acid profile that looks something like this:

Lauric 0
Myristic 0
Palmitic 25-35% (average is about 30%)
Stearic 28-38% (average is about 33%)
Ricinoleic 0
Oleic 29-41% (average is about 36%)
Linoleic 2-7% (average is about 4%)
Linolenic 0

Lots of numbers, right? Let's look at how SoapCalc groups those numbers into fewer bits of useful information:

Hardness 61 
Cleansing 0
Condition 38
Bubbly 0
Creamy 61

So now, okay, how does a person translate from the fatty acid profile to the Soapcalc numbers? Here's how:

*Hardness:* The hardness value is the sum of Lauric + Myristic + Palmitic + Stearic acids. 

These are the saturated fatty acids. The Hardness number is a measure of the physical hardness-like-a-rock. It tells you how relatively easy it will be to unmold a particular soap after saponification. It does NOT necessarily tell you how long-lived the soap will be -- I'll get to that in a bit.

Hardness number from the fatty acid profile (above) = 0% + 0% + 30% + 33% = 63%. 
Soapcalc Hardness = 61%. 

Is the difference between 63% and 61% important? Nope, not too much. Keep in mind that any fatty acid profile for any particular fat is only an estimate. The SoapCalc folks calculated their Hardness number from slightly different data than we are using. Bottom line -- don't agonize over differences of a few percentage points.

*Cleansing:* The cleansing value is the sum of Lauric + Myristic acids. 

It is a measure of how water soluble the soap is -- meaning it is a measure of how easily the soap dissolves in difficult situations such as hard water, cold water, or salt water. The Cleansing number does NOT tell you whether the soap will actually get your skin clean, which is the usual misinterpretation of the Cleansing number. A soap with a Cleansing value of zero will clean your skin; it is just not as water soluble in hard/cold/salty water as a soap with a high Cleansing value.

The cleansing value is also a rough measure of how harsh the soap may be to the skin. The more lauric acid there is in the soap, the higher the cleansing value will be and the more likely the soap will be drying or irritating. People with sensitive or damaged skin are more likely to react to a soap with a high cleansing value than people with normal skin. That is a big reason why some folks are fine with 30% coconut oil in their soap recipes and others shudder at the thought of any coconut oil at all in their soap. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle, based on what many soapers report.

Cleansing number from the fatty acid profile = 0% + 0% = 0%
SoapCalc Cleansing = 0%

*Conditioning:* The conditioning value is the sum of Oleic + Ricinoleic + Linoleic + Linolenic acids. 

These are the monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fatty acids. As the conditioning value goes up, the cleansing value goes down, and vice versa. Since the two are closely related, I focus on the cleansing value, since it has more influence on how my skin feels after bathing. I do not pay too much attention to the conditioning value.

Conditioning number from the fatty acid profile = 0% + 36% + 4% + 0% = 40%
SoapCalc Conditioning = 38%

*Bubbly:* The Bubbly value is the sum of the Lauric + Myristic + Ricinoleic acids. 

This is a measure of how much loose, fluffy lather is produced. A "bubbly" lather is produced quickly by a soap, but doesn't last long. 

Remember that the first two fatty acids make a soap that is very soluble in water, so it makes sense that a soap that has a lot of these two fatty acids would make lots of lather, right? 

Ricinoleic acid does not make soap that lathers well on its own, but combined with other fatty acids, it enhances the lather the other fatty acids produce. Does a low or zero Bubbly number mean the soap doesn't lather at all? Nope -- just that the soap might not have a lot of fluffy big bubbles.

Bubbly number from the fatty acid profile = 0% + 0% + 0% = 0%
SoapCalc Bubbly = 0%

*Creamy:* The Creamy value is the sum of the Palmitic + Stearic + Ricinoleic acids.

Palmitic and stearic are the fatty acids that produce lather that is fine textured (like whipped cream) and longer lived. Ricinoleic, as mentioned before, enhances lather, whether it be big, bubbly lather or dense, creamy lather.

Creamy number from the fatty acid profile = 30% + 33% = 63%
SoapCalc Creamy number = 61%

*Long life:* The longevity of a soap is the sum of the Palmitic + Stearic acids.

Palmitic and stearic acids create a soap that is relatively hard and relatively insoluble in water. 

Long-lasting number from the fatty acid profile = 30% + 33% = 63%
SoapCalc Long-lasting number = ???

I said I'd get back to this issue. SoapCalc numbers do not directly measure longevity. Many people confuse the Hardness number as being a measure of how long lived the soap is, but that is not strictly correct. If you are working in SoapCalc, the fastest way to estimate the Long-lasting number is this:

SoapCalc Long-lasting number = Hardness number - Cleansing number

For cocoa butter, it's a no-brainer -- the Hardness number is the same as the Long-lasting number. For a Coconut Oil soap, the story is quite different:

Hardness = 79
Cleansing = 67
Long-lasting = 79 - 67 = 12

Compare that to 63 for cocoa butter. Bottom line -- a coconut oil soap will not last nearly as long as a cocoa butter soap, all other things being equal.


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## TeresaT (Nov 30, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> About 0.77 gram of glycerin is produced for every 1 gram of NaOH used to make soap. The soap *must have a zero to a positive superfat for this to be accurate.
> 
> Glycerin weight, grams = (NaOH weight, grams) X 0.77*


*

As we know, I am not a mathematical genius or particularly scientifically savvy.  So, that said, I soap at 8% SF.  If I use 25 gm NaOH in a recipe, does that mean I can expect that recipe to yield 19.25 gm glycerin?  The SF value doesn't matter?  I just need to make sure I have enough lye to oils to completely react the lye?*


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## galaxyMLP (Nov 30, 2015)

TeresaT said:


> As we know, I am not a mathematical genius or particularly scientifically savvy.  So, that said, I soap at 8% SF.  If I use 25 gm NaOH in a recipe, does that mean I can expect that recipe to yield 19.25 gm glycerin?  The SF value doesn't matter?  I just need to make sure I have enough lye to oils to completely react the lye?



Teresa, glycerin is only produced when the NaOH can react with the fats. If you have a positive superfat then you have excess fat. But, for that tip/equation it doesn't matter. 

Example:

Fat + Lye = Glycerin and Soap

If you have extra fat, you cant react it all and you are looking at:
Excess Fat + Lye =Glycerin, Soap, Fat

If you have extra lye, you are looking at:
Fat + Excess Lye= Glycerin, Soap, Lye.

Since the calculation is based on lye, if you use a negative super fat (excess lye) you will artificially increase the amount of glycerin you would expect using this equation. Fat is not factored into this equation so super fat has no perceived effect on the glycerin content because you're using a fixed lye amount that will react with a fixed amount of fat.


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## DeeAnna (Nov 30, 2015)

Perfect answer, Galaxy!


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## ngian (Dec 1, 2015)

galaxyMLP said:


> If you have extra fat, you cant react it all and you are looking at:
> 
> Excess Fat + Lye =Glycerin, Soap, Fat



Galaxy isn't it possible for the equation to be:

Excess Fat + Lye =Glycerin, Soap, (Glycerin + free Fatty Acids) 

meaning that the unsaponified fat could be hydrolysed and thus more glycerin molecules would add to the other glycerin content in the final soap?


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## DeeAnna (Dec 1, 2015)

"...Excess Fat + Lye =Glycerin, Soap, (Glycerin + free Fatty Acids)..."

Okay, Nikos, since you are wanting to take this a step further than the basics, I'm going to put my chem professor hat on and trot out a fuller explanation.

You are making the incorrect assumption that a triglyceride fat is always fully broken down into free fatty acids and glycerin. Lye is strong enough to actually do this full decomposition of the triglycerides. Once the lye is consumed by the saponification reaction, however, then full decomposition of excess triglycerides (aka the superfat) becomes far less likely. The superfat may hydrolyze in the presence of water, warmth and time, but this is going to be a slow and difficult chemical reaction. The triglycerides that do decompose by hydrolysis are more likely to be only partially hydrolyzed into monoglycerides and diglycerides. The tri-, di-, and mono-glycerides in the superfat still act like fats, not like glycerin.

So the bottom line is Galaxy's explanation is accurate enough to explain how the glycerin is made and how much glycerin is produced. Yes, it is a simplification, but it's sufficiently accurate for everyday use.

Newton's Law of Gravity is a similar simplifying assumption. For 99.99% of us, his law is plenty good enough to use to explain how gravity works, even though super-geeky physicists know Newton's Law is a gross simplification.


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## TeresaT (Dec 1, 2015)

galaxyMLP said:


> Teresa, glycerin is only produced when the NaOH can react with the fats. If you have a positive superfat then you have excess fat. But, for that tip/equation it doesn't matter.
> 
> Example:
> 
> ...



You lost me in the bracketed area.  If you have a negative super fat (excess lye) how would you "artificially increase" the glycerin?  Isn't the "negative super fat" the same thing as the third statement you have (extra lye)?  

So, I think the answer to my question was actually, "Yes."  The SF has no part in the equation.  As long as I have enough fats to react with the oils to actually make the soap/glycerin.


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## galaxyMLP (Dec 1, 2015)

I'm really sorry I lost you/confused you. Yep, superfat has no effect in this case. Yes,my statements are the same. And it looks like you understand it all but, in case you don't:

Let me try to explain the "fuzzy" area for you a bit better. In this equation NaOHx0.77=glycerin, we aren't looking at what the superfat is and are just basing the glycerin amount on the NaOH amount. This is true for NaOH that _does_ react. In zero superfat and positive superfat cases, that is true. All NaOH reacts. But in cases where we have extra NaOH not all of it can react. That means for that extra amount of NaOH you wont have any amount of glycerin produced. However, your equation (because its only based on the amount of NaOH) would make it look like you're making more glycerin than you actually have.

ngian, I didnt want to go into that lengthy explanation of the hydrolosis. It would have been confusing. I agree with Dee that the hydrolosis would take a long time. Other side reactions could also occur that may or may not produce glycerin. The equation is simply a simplification of what is occurring.


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## Dahila (Dec 1, 2015)

Glycerin calulations: 

NaOH it is lye amount x 0.77 = glycerin e.g. 136g x 0.77 = 104.72 g of glycerin

KOH it is lye x 0.55 = glycerin amount

Here is the calculation in use and why from Scott:
1g NaOH gives 0.77g *glycerin*e
1.4g KOH gives 0.77g *glycerin*e
so 1g KOH gives you 0.55g *glycerin*


Quick explanation - it's the OH part of the alkali (lye) that "makes" *glycerin* in the saponification reaction - K atom is heavier than Na atom so you need more KOH (weight) than NaOH to provide the same amount of OH 

When using NaOH, 1g of oil/fat gives 1 g soap salts
When using KOH, 1g of oil /fat gives 1.4g soap salts

Sorry I think they use different form for glycerin in Europe ; glycerine.  Maybe it would be easier for T;to get it.  I got it and English is my second language so she will too))


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## ngian (Dec 2, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> ... For a castile (100% olive oil) CP soap, I would use a 40% lye concentration to encourage the soap to trace faster



I want to fill in some info and little experience I have on Olive Oil. Lye concentration on castile is very much dependent on the acidity level of the olive oil (amount of free fatty acids). Extra virgin olive oil has an acidity level of <0.8% and lye concentration of 40% would be ok. But if the oil is very old and/or the storage conditions are not very good (exposure to air/heat/light) then the triglycerides breaks off, leaving a diacylglycerol or a monoacylglycerol and thus there are many free fatty acids floating around the oil. These saponify very fast in contact with lye, so using the normal 33% Lye concentration (or even 30% if acidity level is too high), soaping cooler and using whisk instead of a SB are things to take into account.

I think Kevin Dunn describes in his book how someone can measure an oil's acidity. An Olive Oil of high acidity level has a sour taste and has a strong acidic kind of smell.



DeeAnna said:


> Okay, Nikos, since you are wanting to take this a step further than the  basics, I'm going to put my chem professor hat on and trot out a fuller  explanation.
> 
> You are making the incorrect assumption that a triglyceride fat is  always fully broken down into free fatty acids and glycerin. ...



Thank you for your explanation DeeAnna, and as I was reading that you would put on your chem hat I was afraid of reading some weird chem phrases or an chem-alien language, but for my luck it was an earthy and friendly language  

My assumption though was in deed very extraordinary but just wanted to make it more vivid.




galaxyMLP said:


> ngian, I didnt want to go into that lengthy explanation of the hydrolosis. It would have been confusing. I agree with Dee that the hydrolosis would take a long time. Other side reactions could also occur that may or may not produce glycerin. The equation is simply a simplification of what is occurring.



Galaxy I just wanted to know if in the unsaponified oils part, someone can find free fatty acids and glycerols apart from triglycerides, diacylglycerols, monoacylglycerols by the time of the saponification is finished (no more active lye present). Free fatty acids that were extracted from glycerol molecule by lye but didn't finally saponify. I understand the reason for simplicity but being curious I sometimes want to dig a bit deeper.

So the party - metaphor story with the saponification could be enhanced:

3 girls (fatty acids) go with their mother(glycerols) to a big party hand in hand. Every mother that enters the party, 3 guys (Lye) approach her in order to convince her to release her 3 daughters. So when they finally do, they get a chance to dance and see if the can pair. The rest of the story is very well narrated by DeeAnna:



DeeAnna said:


> It's like the fats and lye are having a big party with more fats (girls)  than lye (guys) in the house. The guys at the party (the lye molecules)  prefer blondes (coconut oil), but there are lots of pretty brunettes  and redheads on the dance floor to mix with. These darker haired girls  (olive oil, for example) dilute the concentration of blonds. This means  the lye guys will find it harder to pair up with a girl with the "right"  hair color and easier to pair up with a girl of another hair color  (olive oil reacting with lye rather than coconut oil reacting w lye).
> 
> Even though some of the lye guys are eventually going to pair up with  the blonds they prefer, many will pair up with the brunettes and  redheads instead. At the end of the party, the lye guys will have hooked  up with a fair number of the darker haired gals by the end of the  party. It is likely that at least some girls of each hair color will  remain without a partner. Given that this interaction is all about  chemistry and probability, it's difficult to predict how many blonds,  brunettes, and redheads will be left over.


http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## DeeAnna (Dec 2, 2015)

"...if in the unsaponified oils part, someone can find free fatty acids..."

Not Galaxy, but here's my thoughts on the matter. 

In a freshly made soap, the probability of finding free fatty acids is pretty low, because FFAs react so very easily with lye. 

Oil manufacturers use various methods to reduce the acidity (aka FFAs) in their oils to "improve" their edible oils for sale. One method used historically was to add a small amount of an alkali -- NaOH, soda ash, etc. -- to the oil and allow the alkali to saponify the FFAs and then skim the soapy bits off the oil. This method works effectively only because FFAs react much more easily with an alkali than the parent oil.

Getting back to soap ... As time goes on, yes, there is a definite possibility of an increasing amount of FFAs in the soap, because the superfat in the soap gradually decomposes and eventually becomes rancid. This decomposition is not caused by lye -- that is long gone -- but due to some combination of hydrolysis (reaction with water), UV decomposition, and possibly bacterial action.


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## ngian (Dec 2, 2015)

Thank you for your great info! Very interesting method they used in "cleaning" the FFA!

Ok so here is another question that arises. DOS - Dread Orange Spots.

They appear mostly in soap when 


- the superfat is more than 5% (the bigger the number the better for DOS),

- when we use oils richer in polyunsaturated FAs as these are more prone to rancidity having 2 & 3 double bonds,

- and when the oils are old as heat, light and oxygen and time, conditions at which oils are going rancid (because of the oxidative process as you also mentioned). This one is true for all soft oils I guess.


The third bullet is true when for example someone makes a castile (100% Olive Oil) with a very old OO (2-3years old). They see more easily DOS in their soaps in contrast with a Castile made with EVOO while everything else is equal. 
So is it for the fact that in the superfat area there are triglycerides that are old and tired and can brake up easily to FFAs, or is it moslty monoglycerides and diglycerides that brake up even faster to FFAs and glycerine? 

And the orange color is made by FFAs?

You can wear your chem suit also, I'm all ears (eyes) in case you have any info or link on these matters. http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## galaxyMLP (Dec 2, 2015)

-The orange color is not from the FFA's. Its from them breaking down. The FFA's can break down further and give off ketones or other, "stinky" compounds that are colored. Thats why FFA's can be odorless but rancid oils smell. FFA's arent 100% tied to rancidity. Look at FFA's like stearic acid and palmatic acid. They are very stable. Rancidity usually occurs in high temperature situations or with other stress. 

-I'm not quite sure about the olive oil question that you asked. Once the oils begin to break down I do know that they begin to breakdown at a faster rate. I think the real issue with old olive oil (or any oil) is that it is already beginning to go rancid (FFA's are further breaking down). It doenst have to smell bad yet for you to be able to tell that FFA's have started breaking down. You likely have a higher rate of FFA's in old oil and when that is exposed to the high heat/ strong chemical reaction of saponification it is more likely for things to break down further past the FFA state which leads to rancidity/DOS.

-One other thing, yes, its possible to have additional glycerin formed after saponification from triglyceride break up not due to NaOH. But, it is unlikely and will occur more slowly over time if at all. Other forms of breakage can occur (like mono and diglycerides) without forming glycerin. Sometimes, they (indiustry) uses steam to hydrolyze (saponify) oils to create FFA's and glycerin. Thats an example where high heat and water can take the place of NaOH. You are left with no "salts of fatty acids" in that case of course. Only the FFA's themselves. 

I hope all of this helps!


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## DeeAnna (Dec 2, 2015)

What Galaxy said -- yep!


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## ngian (Dec 2, 2015)

Thank you very much Galaxy for your explaining, it helps me a lot to understand how oil's quality is degraded


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## galaxyMLP (Dec 2, 2015)

I'm really grateful that my explanation was able to help you!


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## DeeAnna (Dec 23, 2015)

*Geek Tip -- Avoid Common Errors for Soap Labels!*

Do you know the rules for designing a correct label for US sale? I don't! Marie Gale knows the subject of soap and cosmetic labeling far better than I do, so here is her helpful blog post about errors often made when designing soap labels:

http://www.mariegale.com/five-most-common-labeling-errors/

Did you know there's a difference between a "label" and "labeling"? Briefly, a label is the marking on your product, and labeling is the secondary information in your store, sales booth, or website. Even though a _label_ on a bar of soap may be in compliance for the rules for soap, your _labeling_ can redefine the product as a cosmetic or drug if you make inappropriate claims. You are responsible for _both_ being in compliance with the rules. Marie Gale explains in more detail:

http://www.mariegale.com/label-vs-labeling/

Have trouble finding information on the FDA website? Here is a handy FAQ (frequently asked questions) about FDA rules for soap, cosmetics, and drugs:

http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/ResourcesForYou/Industry/ucm388736.htm


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## Be Love (Jan 1, 2016)

Love this thread! Thanks everyone for your 'geek' tips! I wish I had one to contribute! It's amazing how much we can learn from each other. If you ever need a tip on childbirth, I'm your gal! Lol


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## ngian (Jan 1, 2016)

galaxyMLP said:


> -The orange color is not from the FFA's. Its from them breaking down. The FFA's can break down further and give off ketones or other, "stinky" compounds that are colored. Thats why FFA's can be odorless but rancid oils smell.



Hello galaxyMLP, 
So when we have a very old Olive oil that smells already bad and we will try to make soap with it, the ffa that will have broken down further will not saponify and thus there will be more unsaponifiables (ketones or other, "stinky" compounds ) in the final soap?


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## Susie (Jan 1, 2016)

Not galaxy, but I can tell you that rancid oils make stinky soap.  I learned this the hard way.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 1, 2016)

One way to reduce the chance of odor in the soap is to wash the fat with water before using it to make soap. The ketones and aldehydes apparently are partially or wholly soluble in water. If you can smell the "off" odor, keep washing until the odor is gone. Multiple washes with a moderate amount of water per wash are going to be more effective than one wash with a lot of water.

Check this thread out, especially post 15 by Grayceworks: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=381830


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## ngian (Jan 2, 2016)

Thank you very much DeeAnna for your answer and link. I just added one more page in my soaping book of knowledge! 

Susie I understand what you mean because I have used a soap from another soaper, that smells stinky, and I guess this is the reason.



DeeAnna said:


> One way to reduce the chance of odor in the soap is to wash the fat with water before using it to make soap. The ketones and aldehydes apparently are partially or wholly soluble in water. If you can smell the "off" odor, keep washing until the odor is gone. Multiple washes with a moderate amount of water per wash are going to be more effective than one wash with a lot of water.
> 
> Check this thread out, especially post 15 by Grayceworks: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=381830



In the link provided they advise to use boiling salted water in order to clean all the impurities in an old /used oil but I was wondering if the same can be done with a room temperature brine (at least above the oil's melting temperature). 

I'm thinking that boiling brine will create more impurities (that will eventually clean them too) as heat is also breaking down further the "healthy" ffa, resulting in even lesser amount of cleaned oil for saponification.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 2, 2016)

Well, try it if that is your concern, but keep in mind when you mix boiling water with room temp oil, the mixture is not going to be anywhere close to boiling. Also bear in mind you're dealing with solubility issues -- chemicals tend to be more soluble at higher temperatures than at lower.


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## topofmurrayhill (Jan 3, 2016)

ngian said:


> I'm thinking that boiling brine will create more impurities (that will eventually clean them too) as heat is also breaking down further the "healthy" ffa, resulting in even lesser amount of cleaned oil for saponification.



There might be some additional oxidation. There would be some hydrolysis as well, so additional FFA could be produced. However, the amount of all these substances is decreased, so it seems worthwhile. Even "healthy" FFA is reduced by this process, which could be helpful in making the oil behave better for soaping. 

View attachment 235-236-1-PB.pdf


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## Saponista (Jan 3, 2016)

I haven't seen grayceworks around in ages. Wonder what happened to her......


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## DeeAnna (Jan 3, 2016)

I've wondered too. She had some serious health problems. She is a lovely person and had some great insights and advice. It would be a pleasure to see her presence here again!


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## ngian (Jan 3, 2016)

Thank you very much for the pdf topofmurrayhill! I will read it when I have time. I'm in a period that I will make a Castile (or a Bastille with little CO) with a rancid Olive oil so this paper might help me even more.


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## ngian (Jan 29, 2016)

Well I have another question regarding the use of boiling brine water in  order to clean a very old oil so as to make soap without any odor. 
Can this also be done with an old Shea Butter that has started to smell  weird(rancid)? Or with this method we are going to clean also the  unsaponified matter it has that makes Shea a special Butter to use in a  soap? 
Are the unsaponifiables water soluble also?


Well yesterday I cleaned 3 times a very old olive oil with brine hot water and when I discarded the brine the oil itself was and is still cloudy. Does it need any filtering prior using it for soap making? Is this phenomenon for the moisture that the brine water added? Or is it ok to make soap right away?

I'm sorry for making this geek information thread into a "Why" & "How to" questions one.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 29, 2016)

After three washings, I'm going to guess the cloudiness is probably residual water. 

You can make soap with it as it is. Or you can let it sit for a time -- a few days, a week? -- at room temperature and see if more of the water separates out. Or you can heat it gently to drive off the water and see if that helps the clarity. 

I'd probably let it sit at room temp and see what happens, especially if I didn't have any particular reason to soap with it right away.


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## topofmurrayhill (Jan 29, 2016)

ngian said:


> Well I have another question regarding the use of boiling brine water in  order to clean a very old oil so as to make soap without any odor.
> Can this also be done with an old Shea Butter that has started to smell  weird(rancid)? Or with this method we are going to clean also the  unsaponified matter it has that makes Shea a special Butter to use in a  soap?
> Are the unsaponifiables water soluble also?
> 
> ...



That is exactly what happened when I tried it. I made some effort to get rid of the water but didn't have much success. The haze was quite stable and didn't show signs of separating on its own any time soon.

You would be weighing a little water if you use the oil but I suppose it's not very much. Maybe I should have used mine, but I didn't. I concluded that vigorous shaking might not be a good idea when washing with brine.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 30, 2016)

*Geek Tip -- Pricing your work*

The topic of pricing your work might not seem overly geeky at first glance, but it's an issue that can seem overwhelmingly complicated and frustrating. (Isn't "complicated and frustrating" part of the definition of "geek"?)

It's been my observation from years of being around custom leather workers, wood workers, soap makers, and other artisans that they often price their work too low. The end result is many can't earn enough to even make a living wage. It's hard to stay in love with what you do if that is the situation, and many people give up and burn out.

Part of the problem is the complexity of coming up with all the costs -- labor, materials, taxes, utilities, paperwork, insurance, repairs, etc. The list goes on and on. Often people just give up trying to figure it all out and go back to pricing by the seat of their pants. The other big part of the problem is that many artisans lack the confidence to set a fair value on their services, expertise, and products.

This guy offers a simpler approach that is worth a look: https://makesomething.tv/how-price-your-work-simple-technique

Same video on YouTube: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uu_qFDanGPY[/ame]


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## KristaY (Jan 30, 2016)

Well that's certainly food for thought! I NEVER considered a daily rate as opposed to an hourly rate. I've read so many articles that talk about different hourly rates depending on the task you're performing. For example, building in $30 per hour for making soap but only $8 per hour for packaging the soap. But what about studying & researching soapmaking and developing recipes? Time spent in comparison shopping for supplies? Every artisan, no matter their craft will spend time on current trends and fashions in their field. Freebies I guess.

Then there's the standard method of retail. Cost of goods doubled for whosesale, quadrupled for retail.

Very interesting concept so thank you for posting DeeAnna!


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## Steve85569 (Jan 30, 2016)

DeeAnna thanks for the post. 
I don't sell or plan to but I did "grow up" in an industry that required being able to do a realistic cost effectiveness analysis. The question was always: "is it going to cost more than it's worth to build this?".
When pricing what I do I wanted to use my wages. A kind gentleman pointed out that my costing rate was nearly twice what my pay stub showed.:shock:
Using the doubling method tends to short the costing of research, testing and design ( all overhead expenses) that is involved in a craft so one should charge for doing those things IF the objective is to make a living wage after all expenses are considered. Getting supplies is also a part of the overhead costs. Production can't happen without the supplies - BUT - once the R&D has been done and recipe(s) are settled on materials are easy to order and keep the chain going.

Bottom line is that start up costs are more hobby and production costs will be lower.


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## DeeAnna (Feb 1, 2016)

*Geek Tip -- Photographing your soap*

Ever wondered how to take better pictures of your soap? Here are some really helpful tutorials about the art and craft of photographing small items such as jewelry, ceramics, food, and, yes, even soap.

Serious Eats http://www.seriouseats.com/ is a great place to learn about great food. What's even better (from my geeky perspective) is they often talk about the science and technology that makes good food so wonderful -- how and why to cook food properly, why well cooked food tastes so good, and how to make it look as good as it tastes. The theme of a 2015 newsletter was food photography. As I read the article and looked at the pictures, I thought their tips applied nicely to soap as well, if you don't mind translating a bit from their food-based slant. Article: http://www.seriouseats.com/2015/03/beginners-guide-to-food-photography.html

The following tutorials (except for the last one) were originally hosted on the Handmadeology.com website, but many of the tutorials have been removed from the internet and the ones I could find now have missing photos or other problems. I am providing the intact articles here as an educational resource for other soap makers who want to take better photographs of their soap. All tutorials were written and photographed by Mariano, the owner of ViaU Photography and Mariano Photography. He is based in New York City. 

"Taking Pictures of Your Ceramic Pottery" Learning the basics of using reflected and direct light for an effective product photo. http://classicbells.com/soap/photoTips/photoTips1.pdf

"Studio Quality Product Photography With a $12 Set Up" Making simple aluminum-foil reflectors and using them with natural light from a window. http://classicbells.com/soap/photoTips/photoTips2.pdf

"Creating a White Background Inside a Cardboard Box" Making and using a three-sided "white box" for photographing small items. http://classicbells.com/soap/photoTips/photoTips3.pdf

"Cut, Wrap and Make Your Silver Jewelry Shine" Using one light source and multiple reflectors to enhance product photos. http://classicbells.com/soap/photoTips/photoTips4.pdf

"A $6 Dollar Solution to Photographing Jewelry" Using a black or white reflector to control the quality of reflected light and shadows. http://classicbells.com/soap/photoTips/photoTips5.pdf

"Product Photography, Sometimes It's All Done with Smoke and Mirrors" Using a reflector behind a transparent product to enhance its transparency. http://classicbells.com/soap/photoTips/photoTips6.pdf

"How to Use Daylight and Flash to Make Your Products Stand Out" Using natural and reflected light to take effective product photos in outdoor settings. http://classicbells.com/soap/photoTips/photoTips7.pdf

Someone mentioned this thread the other day, and I thought I should add to it again. The topic of eggs in soap come up from time to time. I've come up with a method that is fairly easy, simple, and reliable. Here it is --

*Adding eggs to soap*

I suggest 1 whole egg _or_ 1-2 egg yolks _or_ 1 egg white per pound (or per 500 grams) of fats.

1 large whole egg supplies 5 grams of fat and 38 grams of water.
1 large egg yolk supplies 5 g of fat and 9 g of water
1 large egg white supplies zero fat and 29 g of water​
To account for this added water, use your usual lye concentration (or water:lye ratio) to calculate the total water needed for the soap batch. Next, calculate the total water added by the egg. Finally, subtract the water in the egg from the total water in the batch. This is the additional water needed for your soap recipe.

A whole egg or egg yolk per pound (or 500 grams) of fats adds only a small amount of fat to the recipe. Whether you ignore this added fat or not is up to you. Most soap recipe calculators do not have an entry for egg fat, but it has the same saponification value as canola oil. Enter 5 grams of "canola oil" for every egg yolk in the recipe. This will trick the calculator into calculating the correct weight of NaOH for your recipe.
*
IMPORTANT: All ingredients should be at room temperature to slightly warm (below 105 F or 40 C).*

Crack the egg(s) into a small bowl. If you want just the yolks or whites in your soap, separate the egg and reserve the unwanted part for another use.

Stick blend the egg until smooth. There is no need to pick out the chalaza (the white ropy bit on one side of the yolk) or any other membranes.

Check that the fats are cool enough. Pour the blended egg into the fats. You can pour the egg through a strainer to catch any small bits the stick blender missed.

Stick blend for a few seconds to bring the eggs and fat to a consistent temperature. The mixture will quickly separate after you stop mixing, but that is okay.

Make sure the lye solution is cool enough. Add the lye to the fat and egg mixture. Make the soap as normal. Right after adding the lye, the batter may darken and there may be an ammonia or "rotten eggs" odor for a short time. These changes are typical.

Allow the soap to saponify. I do not insulate the mold nor add extra heat (CPOP, heating pad, etc.) I only lightly cover the mold to help the surface of the soap stay a bit warmer and keep the dust off. My goal is to let the soap warm up slowly on its own.

Even without insulation or extra heat, all my batches of egg soap have gelled. There have been no lingering odors or unexpected color changes.

By blending the eggs with the fats and soaping on the cool side, I have noticed only a small whiff of odor right after adding the lye, but I have not observed any weird colors, hard lumps, or lingering odors that other soapers sometimes mention.

More: https://classicbells.com/soap/eggSoap.html


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## Steve85569 (Feb 13, 2018)

Nice to see you back at the tips!


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## toxikon (Feb 13, 2018)

To add onto the Photography tips - I use a free app called Meitu to adjust my photos. They even have a set of "food" filters designed to make your food pics look tastier. You can also do other things like manually adjust brightness/contrast, crop and even remove dust marks. It's pretty great.


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## Susie (Feb 16, 2018)

DeeAnna said:


> *Geek Tip -- First aid for Lye Burns*
> 
> For the sake of those who may have heard to use vinegar to treat a lye spill on your body -- that advice is absolutely wrong!
> 
> ...



Please, please, please post this on your website, pretty please?  I really need to be able to point people to it!


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## smengot0 (Feb 16, 2018)

DeeAnna said:


> *Geek Tip -- The difference between high-, mid-, and low-oleic oils*
> 
> Safflower and sunflower oils are sold in high oleic, mid oleic, and linoleic (regular low oleic) versions depending on the amount of oleic acid in the oil. The differences in the fatty acid content comes from natural variations in sunflower and safflower plants. These differences have been enhanced by conventional plant breeding methods.
> 
> ...



This is so so helpful. Never can understand the actual meaning of soaping oil properties. Thank you DeeAnna


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## DeeAnna (Feb 16, 2018)

Susie said:


> Please, please, please post this on your website, pretty please?  I really need to be able to point people to it!



It is there already, Susie -- look in the sections on Lye and also on Safety and First Aid. https://classicbells.com/soap/lyeFirstAid.html

*Calculating a dual lye recipe *

Some soap makers use two alkalis -- sodium hydroxide (NaOH) and potassium hydroxide (KOH) -- to make some types of soap. In the hand crafted soaping world, "dual-lye" recipes are often used for making cream soap, shave soap, and liquid soap. 

Dual-lye recipes are uncommon for hard bar-soap recipes, but I have learned a blend of 5% KOH and 95% NaOH reduces the stringy, gelatinous goo of a 100% olive oil soap (or other soap high in oleic acid). I have found this same smidge of KOH increases the solubility and lather of bar soap high in tallow, lard, or palm oil (in other words, soap high in stearic and palmitic acids).

The key to remember is* the percentages are based on a specific total number of alkali molecules*. Because a KOH molecule weighs 1.403 times more than an NaOH molecule, a soaper must allow for that weight difference so the batch gets the correct total number of alkali molecules to make good soap.

*Calculate the weights of KOH and NaOH*

Let's say you want make a dual-lye soap using 95% NaOH molecules and 5% KOH molecules. How can you calculate the correct weights for KOH and NaOH? The easiest way is to let a dual-lye recipe calculator do the work. Two suitable soap calculators are the  Summer Bee Meadow Advanced calculator and the Soapee calculator. If you have not used either calc, *I recommend http://Soapee.com*

To start a dual-lye recipe in Soapee, click the button next to the "Hybrid Soap" option in Section 1 --






Click next to the "% KOH" option and type the percentage of KOH you want in your recipe. Soapee will calculate the percentage of NaOH for you. Or vice versa -- either way works.

Enter the KOH purity. If you don't know the purity, check with your supplier. If the supplier does not provide that information, I suggest using 90% KOH purity, since KOH is often about that pure.

Continue entering the information for your recipe -- units of measure, water, superfat, and fragrance. To enter the fats, double click on the name of your first fat. New windows will appear. One will show the properties of the fat and another will allow you to enter the percentage or weight of that fat in your recipe. The finished recipe will appear below as fats are added.

*Calculate the weight of extra alkali if you also add an acid to dual-lye soap*

Some people add acids to their soap. Any time you add an acid to soap, the acid will consume some of the alkali, so there will not be enough alkali left over to fully saponify the fats according to your recipe. The solution to this problem is to add the extra alkali that the acid needs. For a dual-lye recipe, here is a simple way to calculate this extra alkali --

Look for the Acids section here -- https://classicbells.com/soap/soapyStuff.html -- to get more information about the acid you want to use. Decide what kind and how much acid you want to add to your batch. Calculate the *NaOH* (sodium hydroxide) needed to react with this acid.

The total weight of *NaOH *needed for the recipe --

Total NaOH wt = NaOH for acid + NaOH for saponification​
The *KOH* weight will not change --

Total KOH wt = KOH for saponification​*
Make a lye solution with NaOH and KOH*

Wear your usual safety gear for working with lye. At a minimum, please use protective gloves to protect your hands and either chemical splash goggles or a face shield to protect your eyes. Make sure your work area has good ventilation or work outdoors. First aid for lye: https://classicbells.com/soap/lyeFirstAid.html

If you are using *solid NaOH and solid KOH*, weigh out each alkali. Add one alkali to the water-based liquid in your recipe, and mix until that alkali is dissolved. Add the second alkali and mix until it too is dissolved. (It doesn't matter which one you use first.) Add the lye solution to your fats and make soap as usual.

To use a *masterbatched 50% NaOH solution*, here is how I usually proceed: Weigh the correct amount of the 50% NaOH solution to get the proper amount of NaOH for the recipe. Set this container aside. Weigh the additional water-based liquid needed for the recipe in another container. Weigh out the solid KOH. Add the KOH to the container of water-based liquid and stir until the KOH is dissolved. Pour the containers of 50% NaOH solution and weak KOH solution into the fats and make soap as usual.

*Caution -- The weight of water-based liquid to make the lye solution(s) must be at least equal to the total weight of alkali (NaOH + KOH).* You can use more water, but you cannot use less. If you try to use less, the alkali will not completely dissolve.

More: https://classicbells.com/soap/dualLye.html


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## ngian (Feb 16, 2018)

DeeAnna said:


> It is there already, Susie -- look in the sections on Lye and also on Safety and First Aid. https://classicbells.com/soap/lyeFirstAid.html


DeeAnna I think you should also make a liquid soap section in your little soapy treasures corner with this post of yours:

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/index.php?posts/686285


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## DeeAnna (Feb 16, 2018)

Sure, Nikos! Good idea -- I'll get that done. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 1, 2019)

*Water:Lye Ratio *and *Lye Concentration* Conversion Table

I've added a handy table to my website that converts from lye concentration to water:lye ratio or vice versa. The math behind the table is also included at the end.

Since SMF posts don't handle tables very nicely, I've attached a PDF of the table so you can print or save it.


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## cmzaha (Jan 1, 2019)

You have been busy again DeeAnna. Very nice


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## KiwiMoose (Jan 2, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> *Geek tip -- Why should you NOT use "full water" in your recipes?*
> 
> 
> *Geek tip -- How to calculate a recipe with less water*
> ...



These three should be 'stickied' somewhere - very informative.  Might have to copy and paste these onto a word doc for future reference.  Thanks DeeAnna.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 2, 2019)

I have all of this info (and more) in the "Soapy Stuff" section on my website. I know it's not the same as being here SMF, but I am able to update my website unlike my SMF posts, so my website articles tend to be more up-to-date. I have a "print friendly" app on my website that will make a tidy printout or PDF of any article there. http://classicbells.com/soap/soapystuff.html


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## Ginger Aneshansel (Jan 2, 2019)

This is how I freeze mine and it works way better than the ice tray.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 2, 2019)

Hi, @Ginger Aneshansel  -- Did you mean to post your comment in another thread? Or could you give some background on what you're doing?


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## Ginger Aneshansel (Jan 2, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Hi, @Ginger Aneshansel  -- Did you mean to post your comment in another thread? Or could you give some background on what you're doing?


I meant to post it here, there was a comment on freezing the milks in freezer bags as to opposed to ice cube trays for soaping, I was responding to the post in Geek tips


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## DeeAnna (Jan 2, 2019)

That's  fine, no problem. That post was awhile back so there wasn't any context. Most of us click the Reply button in the post we want to comment on. When you do that, the old post is included in your reply and that helps readers understand.


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## KiwiMoose (Jan 2, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> I have all of this info (and more) in the "Soapy Stuff" section on my website. I know it's not the same as being here SMF, but I am able to update my website unlike my SMF posts, so my website articles tend to be more up-to-date. I have a "print friendly" app on my website that will make a tidy printout or PDF of any article there. http://classicbells.com/soap/soapystuff.html


Thanks Dee - PDF saved into my 'Soap' folder for easy reference.


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## Ladka (Jan 2, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> *Water:Lye Ratio *and *Lye Concentration* Conversion Table
> 
> I've added a handy table to my website that converts from lye concentration to water:lye ratio or vice versa. The math behind the table is also included at the end.
> 
> Since SMF posts don't handle tables very nicely, I've attached a PDF of the table so you can print or save it.


Thanks a lot, DeeAnna. I was taught exactly the way that entails most trouble - and I do meet a lot of them, now that I use recipes differing from what I have been given.


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