# My Creamy Cocoa/Shea GLS Tutorial



## IrishLass

My Creamy Cocoa/Shea GLS Tutorial


Recipe to make 1lb. of paste, super-fatted @ 3% on Summerbee Meadow's Advanced Lye Calculator, with a 3:1 water to lye ratio (aka 25% lye concentration):

35% coconut oil (76 degree-type)........... 5.6oz/159g
30% castor oil...................................... 4.8oz/136g
20% cocoa butter................................. 3.2oz/91g
10% olive oil........................................ 1.6oz/45g
5% shea butter.................................... .8oz/22.6g
KOH................................................... 3.47oz/98g
Glycerin............................................... 10.4oz/295g


*NOTE: This tutorial assumes that you have made soap before and are familiar with all the normal safety precautions when working with lye. If you have not made soap before, please research lye safety precautions before proceeding.*

*Step 1-* weighing/prep (takes about 15 to 20 minutes):

A. Weigh out your hard fats into at least a 3qt. to 4 qt. stainless, stove-top safe pot or bowl. Set aside.

B. Weigh out your liquid oils into a measuring cup. Set aside.

C. In a separate measuring cup, weigh out your glycerin. Set aside.

D. Very important: With goggles and gloves on, and wearing facial protection of some sort over your nose and mouth in order to avoid breathing in any dry lye dust/particles (I myself use 3 cotton diapers folded over on themselves for this purpose), weigh out your KOH into a stainless steel pot that can hold at least 2 quarts. Set aside, covered over tightly with plastic wrap (lye is very hygroscopic, so it’s best to keep it covered in order to keep it dry while you set it aside to do other things).


*Step 2-* melting, mixing, heating, saponifying:

A. Melt your hard fats on a stovetop burner set on low to med-low heat. Once melted, add your liquid oils to them, turn off the heat, then cover the pot as you prepare the KOH/glycerin solution....

[Note: The below method that I spell out for dissolving the KOH is the traditional 'Pharmacist's Method' of dissolving KOH for this kind of soap, which I have always used with good success. For an easier, less intimidating alternative to the Pharmacist's Method, please click *here*, otherwise, continue on.]

B. Put your goggles and gloves on (if they aren’t still on from having weighed the KOH) and have your nose/mouth protection handy, because it’s time to make the KOH/glycerin solution. First, turn on your stove’s overhead exhaust fan. Then, with goggles and gloves on, pour the glycerin into the pot containing the KOH:







C. Next, place the pot on a stovetop burner set to medium-high and bring the mixture to a boil while wearing a mask or holding a layer of cotton cloths over your mouth and nose with one hand, while stirring the boiling mixture with a stainless steel spoon with your other hand. Below: starting to heat. See it beginning to turn white? This is normal. Keep heating/stirring:






If at any time during the dissolving process it looks like the mixture is going to boil over, just remove the pot from the burner until things mellow out, then place it back on the heat and resume boiling/dissolving/stirring.

As the solution continues to boil and more of the KOH dissolves, you will see it gradually become less white and more clear. In order to more easily monitor the progress of the solution’s ever-increasing clarity as it is boiling, just remove the pot from the heat periodically and allow the boiling solution to settle for a few moments.

It normally takes about 8 to 12 minutes or so of continued boiling/stirring for my KOH to completely dissolve, which will be evidenced by the total clarity of the finished solution:


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## IrishLass

Before proceeding to the next step, double-check the solution very carefully for any un-dissolved bits of lye. If you happen to see any hangers-on in your otherwise crystal-clear solution, just place the pot back on the heat and mash the KOH pieces against the side of the pot with the back of your spoon until they are completely dissolved.

D. When you have made sure all of the KOH has been dissolved, pour the hot KOH/glycerin solution into the pot of melted oils/fats, scraping out every last drop of the KOH/Glycerin with a silicone or rubber spatula. Be very careful when pouring so as not to splash any of the extremely hot/caustic mixture upon yourself.

E. Once all the solution has been poured/scraped in, start whisking the mixture (off heat) with a stainless steel whisk. Some people like to use a stickblender for this part because it speeds up saponification, which is fine if you have a stainless steel shaft on your stickblender. However, if your stickblender has a plastic shaft it's best to use a stainless whisk instead due to the exteme heat of the mixture at this stage, which is hot enough to melt certain grades of plastic. Although saponification will happen at a slower pace with a whisk, the mixture will still saponify perfectly fine all the same.

Starting to whisk:





F. As you whisk or as you stick-blend, the soap will go through certain stages, from clear amber and/or to milky opaque, and with bubbles starting to form on the surface, etc... Don't worry- this is all normal. Just keep on whisking/stickblending. The time that I personally stop whisking/stickblending is the moment I see tiny bubbles flying/floating up in the air around the pot or around my head. Some people call this the 'Flying Bubble Stage', but I like calling it the "Laurence Welk Stage" lol.

Although the camera doesn't show it in the pictures below, my soap had reached the Laurence Welk/FlyingBubble stage and there were very tiny bubbles flying all around my head:






It normally takes all of 10 to 12 minutes or so from the time I start whisking until the time I reach the Laurence Welk/Flying Bubble stage (or about 6 minutes with the stick-blender). The flying bubbles indicate that the mixture has completed the first stage of saponification. Technically/chemically speaking, it has now become soap, but it is quite harsh/crude soap at this point and not ready to use yet.

Before I go on, I need to stop and make mention right here that although the flying bubbles are a fun visual indicator that the mixture has officially completed the first stage of saponification and that you can stop whisking, there are some people who have never witnessed the flying bubble stage....and that's okay, especially since the bubbles can oftentimes be very tiny and hard to spot. If you end up in the camp of those who have never witnessed the flying bubbles, don't despair. Instead, let the surface of the soap in your pot be your guide: if you see that you have a goodly layer of bubbles covering over the surface of your batter in the pot (like what you see in my pic above) then that's good enough and you can stop whisking or stickblending and proceed to the next step...

G. Cover the pot and then leave it on its own (still off heat) to continue saponifying along to the ‘Paste Stage’. Don't worry that it's still very liquidy at this stage. This is normal. No need to cook it (I never do). It normally takes 6 hours for this formula to become paste for me on its own. The tell-tale sign that the paste stage has been reached is when you notice that the formerly liquid mixture has solidified to form a firm, but scoopable, sticky/taffy-like paste. Pictured below is what my paste stage looks like. Underneath that thin layer of dried bubbles lies firm/dense, taffy-like goodness. I scooped some out for you to see:






H. Once the paste-stage has been reached, it’s time to test it for the presense of any unreacted lye. This can be done very simply via the the tongue test, also known as the ‘Zap Test’, which is a reliable, time-honored, accurate, and easily applied test that soap makers have employed for hundreds of years . The results are immediate, and it doesn’t take any special equipment to conduct. To conduct the test, simply take a small portion of the paste and rub it between your gloved fingers under some running water to work up a small bit of lather. Next, touch the lather to the very tip of your tongue. Don't lick the lather or eat it or rub it all around your tongue or anything like that. Just simply touch it gently to the very tip of your tongue. If there is unreacted lye in the paste, it will reveal its presense by causing an immediate ‘zap’, or a stinging/burning sensation on the tip of your tongue. If you are unsure whether you felt a zap or not, then you can be sure that you did not. Zap is immediate and unmistakable, and won't leave you guessing. When done, do a quick swish and spit with water to rinse your tongue off if you feel the need to do so.

I. Normally, my paste usually checks out negative for unreacted lye by this time (and will taste sweet because of the glycerin), but if it zaps you, just let it sit (covered) for a little longer and then test again. Sometimes it just needs more time for the chemical reaction of saponification to reach completion, which is not out of the ordinary, by the way, so no need to worry.

Repeat the ‘zap test’ as often as needed every hour or so until it tests out negative (or you could leave it alone to sit overnight and just check it once in the morning when its surely bound to be negative). Once it tests out negative for unreacted lye, it’s time to proceed to the next stage- ‘Dilution’, where we transform the firm, taffy-like paste into creamy, bubbly, liquid soap by heating the paste with water and other goodies.

If for whatever reason you don’t have time to dilute your paste right away, no worries- you can store the paste in a ZipLoc bag in the fridge until a later time. No need to rush- it will wait for you patiently, even if it takes several months for you to finally get around to it (I should know, because it sometimes has taken me that long to get around to it! lol).

To be continued shortly........


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## IrishLass

*Step 3-* Dilution Rates/Percentages 

Now we come to the hardest part of liquid soap-making- determining dilution rates. 

Each liquid soap formula will have its own dilution rate based on the particular oils/fats used in the formula, and also one’s preference for thin or thick liquid soap. I wish there was a ‘one-size-fits-all’ dilution rate for all formulas, with the added ability to satisfy everyone's preferences, but alas, there is no such thing.

The only way to determine the dilution rate for one’s particular formula is by good old-fashioned trial and error, and by making sure to take and keep meticulous notes (very important). Once you have reached a dilution you are happy with, and you were careful enough to have written down the amounts of each of the ingredients that brought you there, the rest should proceed more smoothly without too much (if any) further tinkering needing to be done later on to fine-tune the finished soap.

My own preferences for this particular formula are that the finished soap turn out to be low on the drying/skin-stripping aspect; rich and creamy in feel, but also be able to exhibit a lovely amount of the fluffy-type bubbles; be as thick as pourable honey; be opaque; and lastly, to exhibit a bit of a pearly sheen (gee- I don't want much, do I?  ). Believe it or not, my ingredients/dilution rate meet each of those goals splendidly. 

For what it's worth, when all is said and done, my finished, diluted soap has a total superfat of 7.1%

First, here are the dilution ingredients I use for this formula:

-Distilled Water
-Sodium Lactate in 60% solution (helps to dissolve the paste in a more timely manner)
-Tetrasodium EDTA in 39% solution (helps with my hard water issues)
-Stearic Acid (adds to the super-fat, and contributes greatly to the creamy/opaque/pearly aspect)
-Polysorbate 80 (solubizes my extra super-fat ingredients (as well as my FO), and keeps them from separating out of my finished soap)

and also

-Meadowfoam Seed Oil - which I add to the finished soap post-dilution (along with some PS80) for an extra super-fat. I chose to use Meadowfoam Seed Oil because it's very high in anti-oxidants and is resistant to spoiling......and because I like the way it feels on my skin.

My Dilution Rates:

To figure my dilution rates, I utilize a calculating technique called "Baker's Percentage", of which I'm in the habit of using in all my bread-making endeavours. I also like to use it for liquid soap-making, because it makes things easier for me when it comes to scaling the size of my dilutions up or down according to however much paste I feel like diluting at any given time. 

The way in which things work with Baker's Percentage is that the weight of the flour in every successful bread recipe is represented as 100%, and all the other ingredients in the recipe are expressed as individual percentages of the flour's weight, which means that no matter how big you scale up or or how small you scale down, as long as you use the same exact ratio in percentages of ingredients as per whatever the weight of the flour, your bread will come out consistent. 

The reason why bakers represent the weight of the flour as 100% is because it is the largest ingredient in every bread recipe, and upon which all the other ingredients hang- especially liquid ingredients, as the amounts of those in relation to the flour are extremely crucial to the consistency of the final outcome. As it is is with bread, so it is with liquid soap dilutions- only instead of flour, I represent my paste weight as 100%, and I express all the rest of my ingredients as individual percentages of whatever paste weight I decide to dilute. 

Below is my "Baker's Percentage" dilution rate for this particular formula. No matter how much or how little paste you ever feel like diluting, use the same percentages listed below for each of the ingredients as per whatever your paste's weight might be:

-100% Paste
-41.3% Distilled Water [NOTE: If using the *easier method of dissolving the KOH*, use 31% distilled water instead] 
-3% Sodium Lactate in 60% solution
-3% Stearic Acid
-1.96% Tetrasodium EDTA in 39% solution
-.15% Polysorbate 80

*[Edited to Note: Although you can dilute this soap without the sodium lactate and/or the Tetrasodium EDTA, please note that they are in solution form, which means that their water amounts are a part of what makes up the honey-like finished consistency of the diluted soap. If you choose to leave them out, you'll have to increase the distilled water percentage.]* 

For a hypothetical example, let’s say that I want to dilute 16 oz/454 grams of paste. How do I figure out how much of each of the other ingredients to weigh out in relation to the paste? Well, let’s start with the water, which is 41.3% of my paste weight:

First I *divide* 41.3% by 100 to give me the decimal amount, which is .413. Next, I *multiply* .413 by 16 oz (or 454 grams) paste, which results in 6.6 oz. (or 187 grams) of water needed to be weighed out for my dilution. 

Then I continue on down the line in the same manner with the % of each of the remaining ingredients in order to obtain their individual weight amounts:

-60% Sodium Lactate Solution: 3% divided by 100 = .03. So, .03 x 16 oz (or 454 grams) = .48 oz (or 13.62 grams) sodium lactate solution to weigh out.
-39% Solution of Tetrasodium EDTA: 1.96% divided by 100 = .0196. So, .0196 x 16 oz (or 454 grams) = .3136 oz (8.89 grams) EDTA Solution to weigh out.
-Stearic Acid: 3% divided by 100 = .03. So, .03 x 16 oz (or 454 grams) = .48 oz (or 13.62 grams) stearic acid to weigh out.
-Polysorbate 80: .15% divided by 100 = .0015. So, .0015 x 16 oz (or 454 grams) = .024 oz (or .681 grams) polysorbate 80 to weigh out. 

.....Later on, after the dilution has been made and is completely finished, I then add in an extra 2.052% super-fat in the form of Meadowfoam Seed Oil as per the weight of the actual finished soap (which, for what it's worth, is 3% of the actual weight of the paste). Once the Meadowfoam Seed Oil super-fat has been weighed out, I take its weight and I multiply it by 3% in oder to figure out how much PS80 to combine with the Meadowfoam before stirring the mixture into my diluted soap. You can add more PS80 if you need to, but 3% of my meadowfoam amount is usually all I need in order to solubize it. 

And as far as FO goes, I usually only ever need to use about 1% max FO as per the weight of my finished soap to get a good scent strength (oftentimes less than that), solubized with an equal amount of PS80. 

Next I'll take you step by step through a diluting session. Stay tuned......


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## IrishLass

*Step 4-* Let’s Dilute!:


I like to dilute my glycerin liquid soap in canning jars. Some people dilute in crock pots or double boilers, etc.. but I like the canning jar method because it keeps things nicely contained and helps to prevent evaporation. I learned the method from 3bees~1flower over at the Dish forum and it works wonderfully for me and my small batches.

Tools needed for the canning jar method:

1) A soup or canning pot large enough for your canning jar and filled with enough water to come up the sides of the canning jar so that it (the water) reaches to about 1/2” above the jar contents.
2) A small, round metal cake cooling rack or other similar flat, stable, heat-proof implement that can sit on the inside bottom of your pot so that the canning jar is not sitting directly on the bottom of the pot.
3) A never-before-been-used (wide-mouth) canning jar of appropriate size (and its matching cover) as is befitting the size of your desired dilution.
4) A stick-blender. A plastic one is fine for the diluting stage if you don’t have one with a metal shaft.
5) Rubber or silicone spatulas for scraping/squeegeeing
6) A firm/hard plastic stirring utensil long enough to reach the to the bottom of your canning jar (metal ones should be avoided unless you are very careful to not bang/scrape the sides of the canning jar with them too much).
7) Cotton-lined rubber gloves to protect my hands when handling the hot canning jar.
8 ) A clean dish-towel on which to set the hot jar whenever taking it out of the pot of simmering water so that it is not shocked by the temperature difference.
9) A small pot for heating my dilution water, sodium lactate solution and EDTA solution to boiling.

A. First, I prepare my soup pot. Pictured below is what my pot/rack set-up looks like before adding water. The round rack on the bottom is a cake-cooling rack:






I fill it with enough water, using a dummy canning jar of the same size as my dilution jar as a guide to guestimate how much water I should pour in. Once my desired water level is achieved, I take the jar out of the pot and start heating the water to bring it up to a simmer while I’m weighing out my dilution ingredients.

B. Secondly, I weigh my empty (sanitized) canning jar w/cover and jot the weight down (important for later), then I weigh my stearic acid into the jar, tare my scale, and then weigh my paste into the same jar on top of the stearic acid. I also add my PS80 to the jar at this time. Pictured: 16 oz. chopped up paste .48 oz. stearic and .024 oz. PS80 in a 1 qt. canning jar:






C. Thirdly, I weigh out my distilled water, the sodium lactate solution and the Tetrasodium EDTA solution, and add them together into my small pot and bring the mixture to a boil on medium-high heat. Below: My mixture has come to a boil:






Will shortly be continued next post...........


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## IrishLass

D. Fourthly, as soon as the boiling point of the distilled water, SL and EDTA is reached, I then I pour the mixture into my wating jar, tightly cover it, give a little shake, and then place it in my pot of boiling water. *Pictured*: ready to be placed it into the pot:





*In the pot*:





Once it's in the pot, I cover the pot, turn the heat down to medium, and then let it boil at a gentle roll for 1 hour, making sure to check on the water level every now and again to make sure it's still above the contents in the jar. If it has fallen too low below that, I just add more piping hot water from the tap to bring it back up, and then resume boiling. Also- every time I go to check the water level, I pick the jar up with gloved hands, give the jar a gentle swirl, and then place it back in the pot of simmering/boiling water to continue heating/diluting. This helps the heat to disperse more evenly amongst the contents.

Note: The purpose of applying heat to the dilution ingredients is to help soften the paste so that it dissolves into liquid soap much quicker and easier than if you were to dilute it ‘cold’. It will actually dilute at room temp (according to 3bees~1flower's experiments over at the Dish), but it will take several days.

Once that hour of boiling is up, I take the jar out of the pot (with gloved hands), carefully set it down on a pot holder or kitchen towel (so that the heat difference won't shock the jar and cause it to break), wipe it down with a cloth, then carefully open the jar up and stir the contents with a spatula. I have a long, firm, plastic spatula that I like to use for this task.

Normally by this time, the stearic acid has completely melted, and the jar contents have turned into a dual mixture of clear, amber-colored liquid (diluted soap), and undissolved globs of paste:





Next, I smash some of the globs against the inside of jar in order to check and see how firm or soft they have become. If they are soft like jelly, I squeegee the soap off my spatula back into the jar and then I take my stick blender to the contents in order to break the globs up so that they will dissolve into liquid soap even quicker. But if they are still quite hard/firm, I squeegee the soap back into the jar, cover it back up, and let it cook more, re-checking at 20-minute intervals or so until soft enough. It's extremely rare that the globs are still too hard after that initial hour of boiling. Usually they are soft enough at that time to take my stickblender to them.

*Below*- stick-blending the softened jar contents. You’ll find that only a few intermittent pulses of the stick blender are all it takes to break up the softened globs:





As you can see, stick blending will turn the contents into an opaque ivory color. Don't get too excited just yet, though- this only temporary for the time being. The soap is not actually quite finished yet.

Once done stick-blending, squeegee the soap off the stick blender with a spatula back into the jar, re-cover, then place the jar back into the pot of water (with the burner turned off from here on out) to let the agitated contents of the jar settle in the warmth of the water in the pot. For what it's worth, I cover the pot with its cover while the jar contents are settling.

Stay tuned for next post..........


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## IrishLass

After about 30 minutes or so of sitting in the warm pot, this is what the contents now look like- a jar of amber ale with a little bit of a foamy head, which is just what I actually want it to look like at this time:







Next, I just set the jar on a pot holder on my counter and leave it alone to cool down (oftentimes I just let it sit overnight). If you are awake as it cools down on its own over the next hours, you'll see the foamy head thinning out and gradually getting scantier and wispier. Sometimes (if I'm awake), I help things along by spraying at the foamy head with a spritz or 2 of alcohol every once in awhile, which helps to knock some of it down. If you do this, though- don't go overboard or it may thin the soap out beyond what you'd like. Just a spritz or 2 once every so often is plenty enough. Then just leave it alone to continue getting scantier on its own. Make sure to re-cover the jar when done spraying.

This is what my soap usually looks like anywhere from 7 to 12 hours later:






I want to take a momentary time-out right here to talk about 'blobbiness', because sometimes (mostly during the time you're still trying to figure out a good dilution rate for your formula) you'll get what looks to be a layer of thick, stubborn foam on the surface of the soap in the jar that just won't dissipate after a day of sitting on the counter, but in actuality the 'foam' is really a little layer of foam with a blob of undissolved soap lurking underneath it.

If you notice that your foam is taking much more than 12 hours to dissipate into mere wisps, open the jar and gently poke at the surface with a chopstick to see if that stubborn layer is hiding a blob.

If you encounter resistance, you can be sure that your soap has developed a blob, but no worries, though- what you've encountered is nothing more than a bit of undissolved soap. Having a blob is not the end of the world- it just means that there wasn't enough water in your dilution fluid to dissolve all the soap to the extent that it stays in dissolved suspension when the soap is at room temp.

All you have to do is add a little bit more distilled water to the jar and warm it in a pot of simmering water again (I suggest to only add as little as 1/2 mL of water at a time- you'd be surprised at how much just a little amount of water will do). Alternatively, you could leave the jar on the counter instead in order to let the extra water dissolve the blob, but the added warmth from letting it sit in a simmering pot of water will help speed things up in a more timely fashion.

By the way- you'll need to let it cool down again before re-checking to see if the amount of water you added was enough to keep the blob in dissolved suspension.

Blobs are an annoying happenstance (so annoying that some people just remove the blob and toss it out), but be of good cheer- it's been awhile since I've encountered a blob with this soap formula. The last time was when I was still in the throes of figuring out my dilution rate, but ever since I've been using the dilution rate mentioned in this turorial, I've happily been 100% blob-free. Hopefully you will be, too. Time-out over.

Continued in next post.......


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## IrishLass

Moving right along.... Once my soap looks pretty much like the last pic in the above post (although it's perfectly okay if there are still some scanty wisps of foam on top), I let the covered jar of soap sit on the counter on its own to transform itself into its finished opaque creaminess.

It needs no help from me to do this, by the way. It will do this act all on its own, and it will take about 12 to 24 hours to do it. So go about your business, or go to bed if it’s night-time. If you happen to be present and awake, though, this is what the transformation looks like (it's pretty cool to see):
















Don't let the ugliness scare you. What you see happening is the stearic doing it's job. It'll look much prettier when all is said and done. I promise.



Continued........


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## IrishLass

*Superfat Time!*

Once the soap looks like the soap in the last picture in the above post, it's good and ready to be stirred and super-fatted with Meadowfoam Seed Oil/PS80.

To super-fat, I must first figure out the weight of the soap in my jar since I will be super-fatting it as per my finished soap’s weight (which is a 2.052% S/F, btw). Technically, although I could just super-fat it as per the paste's weight of my dilution (which as was stated in post #1 turns out to be 3% of the paste's weight), I rather like to figure it as per the finished soap's weight at the end, because I never know how much of the soap may have been left behind when I opened the jar to stir or stick-blend during dilution.

To figure out how much soap is in my jar without having to pour it out, I first weigh the covered jar of soap on my scale, and then I subtract from it the weight of the empty jar w/cover that I had jotted down earlier at the very beginning.

Once I have figured out how much soap I have, I multiply it by 2.053% to come up with the weight of Meadowfoam super-fat to add. Then I multiply the Meadowfoam's weight by 3% to calculate how much PS80 to mix with it in order to solubize it into my soap. You can go higher on the PS80 if you need to, but I've found 3% of the Meadowfoam Seed Oil is all that I need. For what it's worth, I weigh these 2 things out on my small Jenning's scale, which can weigh things accurately in very small increments.

You can use a different super-fatting oil of your choice other than Meadowfoam if you want, but as I stated earlier, I like to use Meadowfoam because it's very high in anti-oxidants and is one of the most (if not *the* most) shelf-stable of all vegetable oils on the planet, which comes in especially handy for the super-fatting task at hand, since it has not had the benefit of reacting head-on with the full brunt of the lye. If your extra superfatting oil happens to be very fragile, your finished soap might not have as long of a shelf-life as mine seems to have with the Meadowfoam. For what it's worth, my finished, superfatted liquid soap stays lovely for at least over a year. And I don't use preservatives.

Once the oil and PS80 have been calculated, weighed out and mixed together, I then open my jar and stir the mixture into the soap. No heat and no stick-blending is needed for this step. Just stir it right in.

This is what it should look like in the end:











At this point you can either decant some (or all) into a beaker to scent and then package into pump-bottles or squeeze-bottles, or else cover the jar and store at room temp indefinitely until needed.

To scent, I like to add anywhere from .3% to 1% scent as per the weight of my decanted soap. The question of how much fragrance to add depends on the following two factors: 1) the maximum usage rate of the chosen scent as per the manufacturer’s recommendation, and 2) its particular strength (i.e., how strong it smells). 

Once the amount of scent has been calculated and weighed out, I then mix it with an equal amount of PS80 before stirring it into the decanted soap (to emulsify). Again- no heat is needed for this part. Just stir in right in, pour the soap into your chosen bottle, and enjoy!

For what it's worth, this is my absolute favorite liquid soap to use...... and my family's, too.


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## Arimara

Is this going to be a sticky since this seems to be a popular request?


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## Misschief

IL, is the EDTA a necessary ingredient? I have all the ingredients but the edta.


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## DeeAnna

EDTA is not required in soap, but it does offer some nice benefits. EDTA helps prevent oxidation and rancidity (aka DOS). It also helps to reduce the soap scum that forms when you use lye soap in hard water. 

You can also use sodium citrate to do much the same thing. You can either add sodium citrate directly to your soap, or you can make it indirectly by adding citric acid to your soap batter. If you use citric acid, you will need to add a bit of extra lye that the acid will react with. Citric acid + Lye => Sodium citrate.

But in the end, you don't have to use either one in your soap.


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## Misschief

Thanks DeeAnna, normally I would just order it but Voyageur doesn't seem to carry it. I do, however, have citric acid in the house at all times.


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## IrishLass

Ditto what DeeAnna said. I like to use the EDTA because it helps with my hard water issues. And as an added bonus, tetrasodium EDTA also has the ability to disrupt bacteria to the point that they starve of their food. It doesn't actively kill buggies like a preservative does, mind you, but it puts a bit of a wrench in their digestive systems so that they can't pig-out as much as they normally would. That's why you often see it used in lotion recipes in tandem with Phenonip or other preservatives. It acts as a "preservative booster", weakening the bacteria so that the preservative can go in for a better/easier kill, so to speak.

If you don't end up using the EDTA solution, you might want to do a little tweak to the dilution water amount to compensate, since the EDTA solution contributes to the liquid amount for my dilution rate.


IrishLass


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## Serene

Arimara said:


> Is this going to be a sticky since this seems to be a popular request?


 
I sent a message in the hopes that it is.  This is a winner for sure.

Thank you for doing this, IrishLass.

Sere


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## IrishLass

Arimara said:


> Is this going to be a sticky since this seems to be a popular request?


 
Thank you for asking, Arimara (and Serene).  Although I truly feel very honored that the request has been made to make this a stickie , the answer is no, this won't be made into a stickie. The reason why is because I've unlocked/opened the thread up for discussion, and we're trying to cut down/eliminate the amount of open/unlocked stickies we have on the forum. I feel it's much better to keep it open for discussion than to keep it locked. Discussion is good. 

Having said that, though, I will add a link to it on the list of popular links we are collecting on this stickie: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=3


IrishLass


----------



## Dana89

2 questions here. What does the PS80 do? Also I don't have EDTA, I have liquid Germall plus, would that be an ok sub for EDTA? I know I would have to recalculate the amount to use but it certainly stops bacteria growth.
BTW Your soap is gorgeous and Thank You!


----------



## nsmar4211

*drools* Thanks for this!

Question, could you use the "put in crockpot, heat up, shut off crockpot and leave overnight" dilution I've seen others use with this if you have enough patience? And then just scoop into a sterilized jar?


----------



## IrishLass

Hi Dana! Thank you!

RE: PS80" The PS80 acts as a solubizer. In other words, when mixed with the extra super-fats that I add to this formula, it makes it so that they are water-soluble and will mix into my liquid soap without my soap separating into a layer of water and oil. Without it, my soap would end up looking much like a bottle of homemade oil and vinegar dressing, with the fat floating on top. 

RE: Germall Plus: Unfortunately,  the Germall Plus would not be a good substitute for the EDTA. The Germall is a preservative, while the EDTA is a chelator. The reason why I add the EDTA is for its chelating abilities, i.e., the ability to react with the excess calcium in my hard water, which helps to reduce soap scum, which in turn helps to increase my soap's lathering abilities in my hard water. The fact that it is also able to starve bacteria is just a happy side effect for me. Keep in mind that the EDTA is not a preservative and won't kill bacteria- it'll just weaken them. 


IrishLass


----------



## IrishLass

nsmar4211 said:


> *drools* Thanks for this!
> 
> Question, could you use the "put in crockpot, heat up, shut off crockpot and leave overnight" dilution I've seen others use with this if you have enough patience? And then just scoop into a sterilized jar?


 
Thanks, nsmar! 

I can't say for sure, since I've never tried that method (I don't have a dedicated crockpot), but I don't see why it wouldn't work. If you try it, please post your results! 


IrishLass


----------



## Arimara

nsmar4211 said:


> *drools* Thanks for this!
> 
> Question, could you use the "put in crockpot, heat up, shut off crockpot and leave overnight" dilution I've seen others use with this if you have enough patience? And then just scoop into a sterilized jar?



I would need a 4 qt crockpt to do that. I can only use 16oz of oil for liquid soap at present.


----------



## nsmar4211

I have an 8qt .


----------



## Susie

This is an aside, but I finally saw flying bubbles and got that honey consistency today for the very first time...after using this recipe for about 2 years.  So, if you don't see flying bubbles, or get that honey consistency, don't despair.  It will still make excellent soap!


----------



## Dana89

Susie I got flying bubbles just a few minutes ago!! I did a little happy dance! Now I have to wait for my PS80 and SL to come in the mail before I dilute. I just couldn't wait to get started.


----------



## Misschief

So far, so good. My paste is made and cooling. Everything came together very quickly and easily; I'm really looking forward to the finished product. Thanks so much, IrishLass!


----------



## Misschief

CHIT!!! I thought I had sodium lactate... it's lactic acid. Bugger!!


----------



## fuzz-juzz

Thank you IrishLass for sharing this!
It looks so luscious! 
I'll give it a go as soon as I get some cocoa butter. 
Just a thing about the recipe, I think there is a typo for KOH, the amount in grams, 3.47oz translates into 98.3 grams. I hope you don't mind me pointing it out. 
You did such a great job posting this lengthy tutorial, mistake here or there was probably bound to happen haha.
I've never worked with stearic acid before. Can it be melted the same way as other oils, let say in a water bath or microwave? 
Can it be added after the dilutions of the paste, without boiling jars, to save on time?


----------



## LBussy

IrishLass said:


> My Creamy Cocoa/Shea GLS Tutorial


Outstanding!  Thanks IL!



Misschief said:


> IL, is the EDTA a necessary ingredient? I have all the ingredients but the edta.


It's not necessary in that it doesn't do anything to the consistency of the finished soap.  It does help with soap scum and low lather in hard water, and it does act as an anti-oxidant.  If your soap is not going to be sitting a long time and/or you've not had issues with oxidation before, you can probably not worry about it.



Misschief said:


> CHIT!!! I thought I had sodium lactate... it's lactic acid. Bugger!!


You can use that:

Lactic Acid:  	C3H6O3 (90.08 mol)
Sodium Lactate:  NaC3H5O3 (112.06 g/mol), Stochiometry: C3H6O3 + NaOH → NaC3H5O3 + H2O, Ratio:  1:0.444
Potassium Lactate: KC3H5O3 (128.17 g/mol), Stochiometry: C3H6O3 + KOH → KC3H5O3 + H2O, Ratio:  1:0.623

So 1 gram of lactic acid is neutralized by 0.444 grams of NaOH and gives 0.86 grams of Sodium Lactate.  Since lactic acid is nearly always 60% solution as is sodium lactate, that's a wash BUT you are only getting 86% of that 60% solution (head hurt yet?).  To get 1 gram of SL start with 1.16 grams of lactic acid and 0.516 grams of NaOH.  If you want to just make a solution and have it, use the 1:0.444 ratio and use 14% more of the recipe amount (10 grams becomes 11.628 grams.) 

Subject to someone pointing out a math mistake of course.


----------



## Misschief

LBussy said:


> You can use that:
> 
> Lactic Acid:  	C3H6O3 (90.08 mol)
> Sodium Lactate:  NaC3H5O3 (112.06 g/mol), Stochiometry: C3H6O3 + NaOH → NaC3H5O3 + H2O, Ratio:  1:0.444
> Potassium Lactate: KC3H5O3 (128.17 g/mol), Stochiometry: C3H6O3 + KOH → KC3H5O3 + H2O, Ratio:  1:0.623
> 
> So 1 gram of lactic acid is neutralized by 0.444 grams of NaOH and gives 0.86 grams of Sodium Lactate.  Since lactic acid is nearly always 60% solution as is sodium lactate, that's a wash BUT you are only getting 86% of that 60% solution (head hurt yet?).  To get 1 gram of SL start with 1.16 grams of lactic acid and 0.516 grams of NaOH.  If you want to just make a solution and have it, use the 1:0.444 ratio and use 14% more of the recipe amount (10 grams becomes 11.628 grams.)
> 
> Subject to someone pointing out a math mistake of course.



Ok, it's way to early in the morning to even begin to understand that. I'll read it again once the coffee has kicked in.

Thanks Lee!


----------



## LBussy

Misschief said:


> Ok, it's way to early in the morning to even begin to understand that. I'll read it again once the coffee has kicked in.


Yeah I struggled with how to share that ... let me try to put it in a spreadsheet and you can just tell it what you want.


----------



## Misschief

LBussy said:


> Yeah I struggled with how to share that ... let me try to put it in a spreadsheet and you can just tell it what you want.



That would be awesome.... However, I do have a question - what process do you use? Just mix the lactic acid with lye and let it cool? Then mix with distilled water to the correct ratio?

I'm on my second cup of coffee now, had breakfast, and am fully awake. I think.


----------



## LBussy

Misschief said:


> That would be awesome.... However, I do have a question - what process do you use? Just mix the lactic acid with lye and let it cool? Then mix with distilled water to the correct ratio?
> 
> I'm on my second cup of coffee now, had breakfast, and am fully awake. I think.


I would add it to the water along with any other water-based additives, then add the lye.  I would also consider mixing it in slower than normal.  I generally get to 200 degrees when just mixing in the water.  With the acid in there it could be more energetic.

Here's a spreadsheet.  You can't edit this but you can download a copy from the file menu:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15jFA10AgPHySfgeOdOvDA1vJVF9RDgNCnDPcz93RdTQ/edit?usp=sharing

I plan to add the other acids as well.  .... soon ...


----------



## Misschief

LBussy said:


> I would add it to the water along with any other water-based additives, then add the lye.  I would also consider mixing it in slower than normal.  I generally get to 200 degrees when just mixing in the water.  With the acid in there it could be more energetic.
> 
> Here's a spreadsheet.  You can;t edit this but you can download a copy from the file menu:
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BQD9IJP6fE0MsjHP9Hx9YWSr83EAeMKx2xoyldD_8bE/edit?usp=sharing
> 
> I plan to add the other acids as well.  .... soon ...



Awesome! Thank you for doing that. I can see it being very helpful.


----------



## Misschief

> Below is my "Baker's Percentage" dilution rate for this particular formula. No matter how much or how little paste you ever feel like diluting, use the same percentages listed below for each of the ingredients as per whatever your paste's weight might be:
> 
> -100% Paste
> -41.3% Distilled Water
> -3% Sodium Lactate in 60% solution
> -3% Stearic Acid
> -1.96% Tetrasodium EDTA in 39% solution
> -.15% Polysorbate 80



IrishLass, another question... In your dilution ingredients list, you have PS80 (which I do happen to have). However, in the dilution instructions, it isn't mentioned until the addition of the superfatting oil (in your case meadowfoam oil) and the scent. 

Is is only used for the SF and scent? Am I correct in understanding that if I don't superfat or add scent, I wouldn't need the PS80?

Sorry about seeming to hijack the thread but, believe it or  not, this question was on my mind all night. I'm trying to understand the process and last night, with a couple of glasses of wine in me, I was having a little difficulty.


----------



## LBussy

Misschief said:


> Awesome! Thank you for doing that. I can see it being very helpful.


Updated sheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15jFA10AgPHySfgeOdOvDA1vJVF9RDgNCnDPcz93RdTQ/edit?usp=sharing

The first one did not correctly take into account the strength of the original acid.  This one does, plus I've added citric, ascorbic and acetic acids.

Acetic assumes 5% (vinegar) so this ends up being THE water instead of added to the water.  Ascorbic and Citric assume 100% since you can purchase those as powder.  The lactic acid that I have plus what I see online is 88% so I've changed the default there too.

Before anyone uses this for soap, please review my formulae since it's presently untested.


----------



## LBussy

Just updated the spreadsheet again so if you downloaded it before right now - do so again.


----------



## IrishLass

fuzz-juzz said:


> Thank you IrishLass for sharing this!
> It looks so luscious!
> I'll give it a go as soon as I get some cocoa butter.
> Just a thing about the recipe, I think there is a typo for KOH, the amount in grams, 3.47oz translates into 98.3 grams. I hope you don't mind me pointing it out.


 
Oh my- thank you so much for pointing that out, fuzz-juzz!  It was a silly typo on my part, as all my recipe notes say 98.3g. I just now fixed it. Whew! 



fuzz-juzz said:


> I've never worked with stearic acid before. Can it be melted the same way as other oils, let say in a water bath or microwave?


 
Stearic melts just fine in a water bath as long as enough heat is applied. The amount that I add to my canning jar with my paste melts perfectly fine in my boiling water bath.  I don't own a microwave, but I don't see why it wouldn't melt just as fine in there, too. For what it's worth, I've also used my conventional oven from time to time to melt my stearic for my shave soaps (set @ 200F/93C). 




fuzz-juzz said:


> Can it be added after the dilutions of the paste, without boiling jars, to save on time?


 
I've never done it that way (I've only ever added it when diluting the paste), but I just remembered a post I read a while ago by 3bees~1flower (my liquid soap mentor) over at the Dish where she added stearic to her diluted soap. I just now looked it up, and here is how she does it: She adds the stearic to her diluted soap and then heats the mixture up in her microwave. Then she takes it out and stirs it to see if it has melted. If it has, she stick-blends it and lets it cool, periodically stick-blending as it's cooling (scroll down to post #744 here: http://www.thedishforum.com/forum/i...od-liquid-soap/page-30?hl=pearly#entry2745071.

HTH!
IrishLass


----------



## fuzz-juzz

Thank you IL 
I was just wondering if there's a shortcut as I'm sometimes time poor.
And also, I have Ikea glass jars, I don't know if they can handle boiling. I might have to invest in something else. 
I still have about 1.5 litres of tallow LS (failed pearly soap lol) to go through and I'll have a go at this recipe.


----------



## IrishLass

Misschief said:


> IrishLass, another question... In your dilution ingredients list, you have PS80 (which I do happen to have). However, in the dilution instructions, it isn't mentioned until the addition of the superfatting oil (in your case meadowfoam oil) and the scent.
> 
> Is is only used for the SF and scent? Am I correct in understanding that if I don't superfat or add scent, I wouldn't need the PS80?
> 
> Sorry about seeming to hijack the thread but, believe it or not, this question was on my mind all night. I'm trying to understand the process and last night, with a couple of glasses of wine in me, I was having a little difficulty.


 
Mischief- no worries- you are not hijacking _at all_. All comments and questions are very much welcome, appreciated and encouraged.....especially if any of you are able to pick out any of my typos/errors and/or other things, such as when I've neglected to mention a certain important detail. Please, please don't hold back if you happen to find any discrepancies or areas of neglect. Mistakes are often inevitable when one is their own proofreader and is in a hurry to get things to the presses. lol I'm glad you folks have my back.  

I'm so sorry my glaring omission kept you awake........ and I'm very happy you pointed it out to me. You'll be happy to know I went back and added it in where it should be (in Post #4 under letter B): I add the listed .024 oz. of PS80 to my jar of paste before I pour in the hot dilution water/EDTA/SL.


IrishLass


----------



## Misschief

Ok, I have another question.... This one won't keep me awake, I promise. In the dilution stage, you're using 41.3% water to dilute. Could I ask how you came up with that percentage? When I diluted mine, I found that 41.3% wasn't enough to dilute all the paste. There was no way my stick blender could get through the thickness of the paste.


----------



## IrishLass

Misschief said:


> Ok, I have another question.... This one won't keep me awake, I promise. In the dilution stage, you're using 41.3% water to dilute. Could I ask how you came up with that percentage? When I diluted mine, I found that 41.3% wasn't enough to dilute all the paste. There was no way my stick blender could get through the thickness of the paste.


 
Misschief- did you also add the EDTA solution and SL solution to the paste? If not, then you'll have to tweak (increase) the dilution water % as I explained here: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=569947&postcount=13



IrishLass


----------



## traderbren

Would polysorbate 20 be acceptable to sub for the PS 80 here?


----------



## Misschief

IrishLass said:


> Misschief- did you also add the EDTA solution and SL solution to the paste? If not, then you'll have to tweak (increase) the dilution water % as I explained here: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=569947&postcount=13
> 
> IrishLass



Ah right! I forgot about that part. Thanks IL! I'm really trying to understand this whole process and, to that end, I have one more question. I think it will be the last one.

If I understand correctly, it's the stearic acid that gives the soap its creamy colour, right? To get a clear soap, could I simply leave it out? In reading the thread over at the Dish (I'm 15 pages in, second time around), I realize that the oils can affect the finished soap as far as opacity goes; clear oils, clear soap?

By the way, I've just finished diluting the last of the soap paste. I did it in two parts, one half on the weekend, the other half last night. I have a 4 oz. bottle in my bathroom and gave my daughter another 4 oz. bottle for testing. I love mine! I don't have meadowfoam oil (yet... it's on its way) and used macadamia nut oil and no scent. In the second half, I'm thinking of using jojoba and adding a bit of scent, not sure what yet. I'll think about that while at work today.

I'm adding my thank you to those ahead of me. This is an amazing tutorial and I'm so grateful you took the time to put it all together.


----------



## IrishLass

Misschief said:


> Ah right! I forgot about that part. Thanks IL! I'm really trying to understand this whole process and, to that end, I have one more question. I think it will be the last one.


 
I'm glad you mentioned that again, though, Misschief. I just edited the body of my dilution directions to add in a note about that. Whether you realize it or not, your questions are helping me to improve my tutorial. 



Misschief said:


> If I understand correctly, it's the stearic acid that gives the soap its creamy colour, right? To get a clear soap, could I simply leave it out? In reading the thread over at the Dish (I'm 15 pages in, second time around), I realize that the oils can affect the finished soap as far as opacity goes; clear oils, clear soap?


 
Yes- the added stearic is what gives the soap it's lovely creamy/opaque pearliness, and also the rich and scrumptiously creamy, and I daresay almost lotion-y feel. I've left the stearic out before, but the finished soap pales in comparison. Without it, the finished soap is meh- the color comes out a dinghy/murky amber color, and the feel is just not anywhere near as scrumptiously creamy. You can certainly leave it out if you wish, but it definitely will not have the same level of loveliness, if you ask me. 



Misschief said:


> By the way, I've just finished diluting the last of the soap paste. I did it in two parts, one half on the weekend, the other half last night. I have a 4 oz. bottle in my bathroom and gave my daughter another 4 oz. bottle for testing. I love mine! I don't have meadowfoam oil (yet... it's on its way) and used macadamia nut oil and no scent. In the second half, I'm thinking of using jojoba and adding a bit of scent, not sure what yet. I'll think about that while at work today.
> 
> I'm adding my thank you to those ahead of me. This is an amazing tutorial and I'm so grateful you took the time to put it all together.


 
Macadamia nut as the extra superfat sounds quite lovely! 

I'm so glad to hear that you like the outcome!


IrishLass


----------



## Misschief

IrishLass said:


> I just edited the body of my dilution directions to add in a note about that. Whether you realize it or not, your questions are helping me to improve my tutorial.



More than happy to help in any way I can. :mrgreen:

I've decided on scent, with the help of my daughter... at least, for part of this batch. I've added sweet orange and lemongrass to her pump bottle of LS. I tend to be conservative when adding so I'm not sure I've added enough. We'll see how she likes it.

Incidentally, I took one bottle with me to work today to try out on my guinea pigs, uh, co-workers. The consensus was that the soap is wonderful but it needs scent.


----------



## JayJay

You are a wonderful human being Irish Lass!

I've only made simple LS without any additives other than PS80 and FO. I have been taking notes on your recipe since you posted it on the glycerine LS thread... trying to create the step by step in my notebook.  I never got up the courage to try it before now.    

Thank you for sharing your wisdom and taking the time to write such a detailed tutorial.


----------



## IrishLass

My pleasure, JayJay.  Once you make it, you'll wonder why it ever took you so long! The directions might seem long, but once you're actually in the middle of doing it, it's so easy.....and the results are incredibly lovely (even if I do say so myself)!


IrishLass


----------



## LisaAnne

IrishLass said:


> Congratulations Mandymaz-  very lovely soap! Prepare to be addicted now. lol
> 
> 
> IrishLass



I don't know how to tag you so I did it this way. 

I've read and calculated, would you look it over and see if I have it? 
(and thanks for all the info) small batch to check if I did it right. 

Coconut 2.1 0z
Castor 1.8
Cocoa 1.2
Olive. 6
Shea 3
3%superfat
Glycerin 3.9 oz
KoH 1.3 0z
Dilution rate is 1 part paste to 41% (.41) water with 3% of water weight of SL. 

When I have a finished paste I will add (and this is where it gets murky):
2% superfat (oil weight) 
2% stearic acid (diluted soap/SL solution weight) mixed with PS80 to emulsify. 
Add scent as I put in pump with equal parts PS80.
Where I think I am not clear is the PS80 stearic acid addition. I understand it as adding it to finished Liquid soap with PS80. 
How much PS80 with stearic acid do I use? 

I have pages of notes in front of me and I don't "think"  I've missed anything. Whew, you made it look the easiest, but there is still a learning curve  

I have the stir, heating and blending in my notes, I got that part thanks to your excellent instructions.


----------



## Susie

Misschief said:


> I realize that the oils can affect the finished soap as far as opacity goes; clear oils, clear soap?



Not exactly, but certainly oils without stearic acid tend to make clear soap.


----------



## Saponista

I have only just come across this tutorial. Thank you so much it's fantastic!


----------



## IrishLass

LisaAnne said:


> I don't know how to tag you so I did it this way.
> 
> I've read and calculated, would you look it over and see if I have it?
> (and thanks for all the info) small batch to check if I did it right.
> 
> Coconut 2.1 0z
> Castor 1.8
> Cocoa 1.2
> Olive. 6
> Shea 3
> 3%superfat
> Glycerin 3.9 oz
> KoH 1.3 0z
> Dilution rate is 1 part paste to 41% (.41) water with 3% of water weight of SL.


 
Hi Lisa!

Uh-oh....looks like we have a big problem. Brace yourself. If you're trying to make my Creamy Cocoa/Shea formula, the amounts that you came up with in order to make your smaller batch are going to give you a completely different kind of soap.... one of which I can't guarantee the outcome.

In totaling up your oil amounts, it looks like you are shooting for a 14.1 oz. batch? If that's your intent, in order to make a 14.1 oz. batch of my Creamy Cocoa Shea soap, you'll need to use these amounts instead:

Coconut oil 4.94 oz. (35%)
Castor oil 4.23 oz. (30%)
Cocoa butter 2.82 oz. (20%)
Olive oil 1.41 oz. (10%)
Shea butter .7 oz. (5%)
KOH @ 3% super-fat 3.06 oz.
Glycerin 9.17 oz.

In contrast to my formula's stated percentages above, the oil amounts you posted actually give the following percentages listed below instead, which unfortunately won't produce the same outcome as my Creamy Cocoa Shea formula as spelled out in this tutorial: 

Coconut oil 14.89%
Castor oil 12.77%
Cocoa butter 8.51%
Olive oil 42.55%
Shea butter 21.28%

Not anywhere close...

Also, the KOH and glycerin amounts you listed for your oil amounts are much different from what I would use if I were going to use those same oil amounts. SummerBee Meadow's Advanced Calculator for liquid soap-making (which I always use for liquid soap-making) gives me the following amounts of KOH and glycerin to use for your posted oil amounts: KOH @ 3% s/f: 2.88 oz.; and Glycerin: 8.65 oz. (instead of the 1.3 oz. KOH and 3.9 oz. glycerin that you posted) 

If you are intent on making your slightly smaller 14.1 oz. batch, use the amounts written in red above.




> When I have a finished paste I will add (and this is where it gets murky):
> 2% superfat (oil weight)
> 2% stearic acid (diluted soap/SL solution weight) mixed with PS80 to emulsify.
> Add scent as I put in pump with equal parts PS80.
> Where I think I am not clear is the PS80 stearic acid addition. I understand it as adding it to finished Liquid soap with PS80.
> How much PS80 with stearic acid do I use?


 
No, not quite, and yes. Bear with me. lol I'm very glad you posted. Hopefully I can clear some of the murkiness up....especially if you happen to be going by my brief, cursory/incomplete post on this formula on page 2 over in the Soaping101 thread that I wrote a couple of years ago. I've slightly tweaked a few things since then, which is one of the reasons why I wrote this here tutorial. I should go edit my post in the other thread to post a link leading here. Anyway.......

RE: The 2% superfat: Nope. This is actually not added until after dilution when I have a finished liquid soap. You will want to weigh the finished liquid soap and then add your super-fatting oil @ 2% as per the finished soap's weight, along with PS80 at 3% of the super-fatting oil's weight to solubize the superfat into the soap (so that it doesn't separate out). (This is all explained in the beginning pages of this thread, which should help clear things up.)

RE: 2% stearic acid as per diluted soap/sodium lactate: Not quite (anymore). Nowadays, I base my stearic % on my paste's weight @ 3%, and it is added to my canning jar along with the paste at dilution time (i.e., _not_ into the finished liquid soap)....along with .15% PS80 as per the weight of my paste. Also added to my canning jar at dilution time with the 3% stearic and .15% PS80 is the 41.3 % distilled water as per my paste's weight, 3% sodium lactate in 60% solution as per the paste's weight, and 1.96% Tetrasodium EDTA in 39% solution as per the paste's weight. All of this is explained in the beginning pages of this thread.

RE: the part about adding scent: Yes.  

I hope that made sense. It's almost 3:30 AM here, so I must admit that I may not be at my sharpest. lol If you need further clarification, please don't hesitate to ask.


IrishLass


----------



## LisaAnne

thanks for response, I just made  up numbers for using the Meadow bees calc. 
I had to skim your response quickly, drats I have to get ready for work. I will read tonight. Lol, thought I had it. I can tell I am going to love making it. Thanks!


----------



## LisaAnne

IrishLass, okay now this makes more sense to me. I was going on the older post and wasn't aware of this one. Your directions are very clear.


----------



## IrishLass

LisaAnne said:


> IrishLass, okay now this makes more sense to me. I was going on the older post and wasn't aware of this one. Your directions are very clear.


 
I was thinking that might be the case (that you might be going off the older one from the other thread).  I went ahead and added a link to that particular post to lead people over here. 


IrishLass


----------



## LisaAnne

IrishLass said:


> I was thinking that might be the case (that you might be going off the older one from the other thread).  I went ahead and added a link to that particular post to lead people over here.
> 
> 
> IrishLass



Thanks so much for your time and patience! I had to laugh at the uho!  :-?


----------



## baylee

If one was to use a crock pot, could you mix your glycerin and lye, and then just add to your melted oils already in the crock pot?  In other words, it is okay to not heat the glycerin/lye mixture before adding to the oils in the crock pot?


----------



## DeeAnna

If you're using all glycerin as the liquid to make the soap paste as per IL's tutorial earlier in this thread ... no, you can't do what you propose. You have to heat the KOH and glycerin mixture quite hot to get the KOH flakes to dissolve. A crock pot won't get the KOH-glycerin hot enough.


----------



## IrishLass

Ditto what DeeAnna said. You need to bring the glycerin/KOH to a boil in order for the KOH to dissolve- otherwise the KOH will just remain in flake form. 

However, you can dissolve the KOH in an appropriate amount of room temp water (which takes less than a minute), and then add your full complement of glycerin to it before pouring into your oils in the crockpot. It will change the time it takes to become paste and will also change your dilution rate, but it works that way, too. 


IrishLass


----------



## baylee

Thank you DeeAnna and Irish Lass!


----------



## baylee

IrishLass, if I wanted to use just distilled water and stearic acid in my dilution, would I still only use 3% of the total weight of the paste?


----------



## TheDragonGirl

So I was looking at this recipe! as I've most the ingredients for it, and I've experimented with LS before, I'd be using sodium acitate and sodium citrate in the place of what I dont have and seeing how that went

My question is if I dont superfat but I do want to use EO would I still need the PS80? I'm willing to get it but I cant for the life of me figure out what the usage rates of it are, poking around on google and in here, one blog suggests as much PS80 as EO but a lot of other recipes seem to use a lot less than that and there's nothing definitive that I can seem to locate.


----------



## IrishLass

baylee said:


> IrishLass, if I wanted to use just distilled water and stearic acid in my dilution, would I still only use 3% of the total weight of the paste?


 

I'm late to the party (again), but yes, you can do that.  You may need to adjust the dilution water amount, though. 


IrishLass


----------



## IrishLass

TheDragonGirl said:


> So I was looking at this recipe! as I've most the ingredients for it, and I've experimented with LS before, I'd be using sodium acitate and sodium citrate in the place of what I dont have and seeing how that went
> 
> My question is if I dont superfat but I do want to use EO would I still need the PS80? I'm willing to get it but I cant for the life of me figure out what the usage rates of it are, poking around on google and in here, one blog suggests as much PS80 as EO but a lot of other recipes seem to use a lot less than that and there's nothing definitive that I can seem to locate.


 
I would definitely get the PS80 whether you superfat or not, because EO's and FO's need a bit of solubizing to keep from separating out. The reason why you see varying amounts of PS80 to use is because there is no definitive "1-size amount" that fits all. With some EO's of FOs you may need more and with others you may need less. It's all by trial and error depending on which scent you use. I would start with about half the amount of PS80 to the EO, and then adjust from there. 


IrishLass


----------



## Susie

I don't use PS80, and I don't have a problem with most of my EOs.  The ones that don't mix in well, I just avoid using.  I still use a 3% superfat.  I do tend to use my citrus EOs, with the exception of grapefruit, as I have lots and they just don't last in bar soaps.


----------



## TheDragonGirl

IrishLass said:


> I would definitely get the PS80 whether you superfat or not, because EO's and FO's need a bit of solubizing to keep from separating out. The reason why you see varying amounts of PS80 to use is because there is no definitive "1-size amount" that fits all. With some EO's of FOs you may need more and with others you may need less. It's all by trial and error depending on which scent you use. I would start with about half the amount of PS80 to the EO, and then adjust from there.
> 
> 
> IrishLass



Thank you!

I diluted a little of the batch and I definitely am actually going to add the superfat after all, so its a good thing I went ahead and ordered it for the EO XD


----------



## topofmurrayhill

https://youtu.be/eAy1rJXA1dM


----------



## IrishLass

That was a-wonderful and a-marvelous. 


IrishLass


----------



## nsmar4211

My supplies came in so I just got done making the first step. I did the "mix equal parts of water with KOH and then add the glycerin" step because I didn't want to use the stove in the house and was iffy on microwaving glycerin and lye. So it was one part water with KOH, then two parts glycerin added after that cleared.

Used the whisk for a few minutes, arm got tired, switched to stickblender until it got too stiff. After sitting a few, it reliquified so back to the whisk. Within a minute of whisking...."what was THAT?" oh look tiny bubbles !! I didn't get the whole surface covered in foam though even though bubbles were flying...then the whole thing went to taffy!

So I wrapped up the crockpot (after turning it off and unplugging it) in a towel and will leave it overnight... I'm hoping that even though it went to taffy it will still be fine in the morning? Guess I'll find out!!


----------



## IrishLass

I bet you it will still be lovely taffy in the morning.  Then you can test for zap and dilute if it's zapless. If it zaps, just let it sit a little longer. before diluting.


IrishLass


----------



## nsmar4211

Actually, we have clearish taffy/hard vaseline now! Did a zap test...no zap!!! But OMG it tastes terrible. Blech. Soap. Ick.

 Going to leave it overnight in the crockpot (off) and move onto dilution tomorrow. Will be testing "heat in microwave" version because again, don't want to use house stove...

Hoping this is much nicer on the hands than the first one I did. Might have to look for a cheaper glycerin source if so LOL

Thanks for all the info here!


----------



## nsmar4211

Ok, one quickie. I'm leaving out the edta. To figure out the dilution amount of water to add, do I subtract out the solution?

ok, so,

-1.96% Tetrasodium EDTA in 39% solution

Hypothetically, lets say 100 ounces to dilute. So, that would be 1.96 of EDTA. BUT, .39x1.96 is the actual edta. Leaving, .61x1.96 to be the liquid component. 

So, in the example, I would increase the distilled water amount by .61x1.96, or 1.20 (rounded)....right? Not the 1.96? Or is the .39 solution meaningless?


----------



## topofmurrayhill

nsmar4211 said:


> Ok, one quickie. I'm leaving out the edta. To figure out the dilution amount of water to add, do I subtract out the solution?
> 
> ok, so,
> 
> -1.96% Tetrasodium EDTA in 39% solution
> 
> Hypothetically, lets say 100 ounces to dilute. So, that would be 1.96 of EDTA. BUT, .39x1.96 is the actual edta. Leaving, .61x1.96 to be the liquid component.
> 
> So, in the example, I would increase the distilled water amount by .61x1.96, or 1.20 (rounded)....right? Not the 1.96? Or is the .39 solution meaningless?



If you want to put in a precisely the same amount of water while leaving out the EDTA, then yes you would add the water portion of the solution. Your number is right.

I'm not making a judgment about whether that is important, but that is how you would do it if you like. The EDTA water will end up being 1% of your water.

I don't imagine there is any harm in doing it, but you could also just add a little more water at the end if you need it.


----------



## nsmar4211

Well, I messed up the dilution and learned a few things. #1 my scale isn't sensitive enough to dilute small amounts... so I need to figure out in ml for a few ingredients. #2 my stickblender doens't fit into a mason jar. #3 when using a microwave instead of a stovetop, do NOT MOVE away from the microwave. Yes, 10 seconds can cause a massive overflow. My microwave is very clean now! 

I put too much ps80 in at dilution due to the scale, twice as much actually. Ended up shaking the heck out of the mixture instead of stickblending, but then that lead to a jar of foam. I let it sit for a few days, added more water (it took almost twice as much water as I had figured out! maybe due to the ps80?), finally today I managed to pour off what was underneath the foam head. Since I already had too much ps80 I didn't add any more, filled 2 travel (2oz) bottles and scented them. I have bubbles! And even without doing the superfatting with the meadowfoam, I didn't get the overly squeaky feeling I got with the first recipe. Hoping its not the overage of ps80 because I do like it...

Wondering about the foam. I added a few ml of water to it and will just leave it sit on my counter where I can keep an eye on it...will update! I think it's just foamed up soap because it lathers and such. I figure after a week, I'll try spritzing with 90% rubbing alcohol if it doesn't go down...

I still have 15ish oz of paste left...round two of dilution attempt will happen at the end of the week. This is fun!


----------



## DeeAnna

In addition to its ability to solubilize/emulsify oils, PS80 is a very mild, low lathering surfactant. So if you add a fair % of it, it definitely could make your diluted soap feel milder.


----------



## nsmar4211

Hrm... well it should've been .22g and it ended up being .5 grams LOL...


----------



## IrishLass

nsmar4211 said:


> This is fun!


 
Yes, it is! 

I wouldn't worry about adding the extra bit of PS80. Better a little more than not enough. 


IrishLass


----------



## fuzz-juzz

Thank you again for this tutorial! My paste is currently resting. I did stick blend it for about 3-4 minutes, it reached really thick trace with bubbles on top. Looks good but it's still opaque.
I usually cook my LS, but I will trust you on this one, I'll let it rest. 
It's very, very warm though, I can barely touch sides of the bowl.
I did shuffle numbers in recipe a bit, reduced CO to 25 and upped OO.
I will dilute it tomorrow. I have idea of heating up hot water and paste in the crock pot and adding melted stearic acid (will try to melt it in the microwave hehe).


----------



## fuzz-juzz

OK.. I thought I'll report back. 
Paste ended up being more yellow than amber but my recipe was tad lower in CO and higher in OO.
It looks nice, opaque,  not as yours and not thick as yours. 
There's little white specks floating around, similar colour to cottage cheese.   But maybe a size of poppy seed.
I did everything like you did apart from the boiling the jars. I diluted in crock pot on high and everything looked emulsified.
It looks nice enough I'll end up using it but I'm just curious.


----------



## IrishLass

Are the white spots hard or soft? If they are soft, I would try stirring or stick-blending the dilution to see if that helps (my belief, based on my own experiences is that it should). 

But if they are hard (something I have not encountered before), it sounds like it's possible you may have some re-solidified stearic spots from the way you added the stearic (possibly things might not have been able to stay hot enough for long enough in your crockpot)? 

Stearic acid has a very high melting point, which is one of the reasons why I like to dilute in canning jars- setting the jar in boiling water does a wonderful job of making sure the stearic is good and melted, and it helps to ensure the entire contents of the jar are brought to same hot temp before I stick-blend it to smoothness. If the spots are hard, you may have to re-heat the dilution to get them to a soft enough state to be able to take to being stick-blended into the mix. 

The reason why I say I believe the spots should blend in if they are soft is based of how things progress when I dilute mine.... When I dilute mine, after the stearic is completely melted and the paste is soft enough, I stick-blend it to complete smoothness (which turns it white), then I re-cover the jar, place it back in the hot water (heat off) until things settle and the contents of the jar turn amber with a foamy head on top. Then I remove the jar from the water and let it sit overnight. 

As it sits overnight and sometimes throughout most of the next day, the the amber soap develops tons of white spots- it looks like it has the measles, as you can see in these progress pics here: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=569810&postcount=6   and here http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=569813&postcount=7

But all I have to do is stir, and the spots blend right in and I am left with a beautifully opaque soap.

Please let me know how the spots feel (hard or soft), and also let me know what happens if you decide to stir or stick-blend or re-heat. 


IrishLass


----------



## fuzz-juzz

First of all I really appreciate your help.  
So yes I forgot to mention I did stick blend and reheat for about 2h. Should it be longer than 2h?
The spots did disappear but returned after the soap cooled again.
They are soft and mushy and melt between the fingers. 
The funny thing is that one out of two jars have more and one with less is more opaque. 
I do start think it's something to do with stearic.
It feels lovely on hands though. 
I'll attach few pics I hope they work. Soap on left has more spots and it's less opaque.


----------



## fuzz-juzz

IrishLass said:


> Are the white spots hard or soft? If they are soft, I would try stirring or stick-blending the dilution to see if that helps (my belief, based on my own experiences is that it should).
> 
> But if they are hard (something I have not encountered before), it sounds like it's possible you may have some re-solidified stearic spots from the way you added the stearic (possibly things might not have been able to stay hot enough for long enough in your crockpot)?
> 
> Stearic acid has a very high melting point, which is one of the reasons why I like to dilute in canning jars- setting the jar in boiling water does a wonderful job of making sure the stearic is good and melted, and it helps to ensure the entire contents of the jar are brought to same hot temp before I stick-blend it to smoothness. If the spots are hard, you may have to re-heat the dilution to get them to a soft enough state to be able to take to being stick-blended into the mix.
> 
> The reason why I say I believe the spots should blend in if they are soft is based of how things progress when I dilute mine.... When I dilute mine, after the stearic is completely melted and the paste is soft enough, I stick-blend it to complete smoothness (which turns it white), then I re-cover the jar, place it back in the hot water (heat off) until things settle and the contents of the jar turn amber with a foamy head on top. Then I remove the jar from the water and let it sit overnight.
> 
> As it sits overnight and sometimes throughout most of the next day, the the amber soap develops tons of white spots- it looks like it has the measles, as you can see in these progress pics here: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=569810&postcount=6   and here http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=569813&postcount=7
> 
> But all I have to do is stir, and the spots blend right in and I am left with a beautifully opaque soap.
> 
> Please let me know how the spots feel (hard or soft), and also let me know what happens if you decide to stir or stick-blend or re-heat.
> 
> 
> IrishLass



Hi IL 

You haven't replied in ages to this thread but I just want to update you on my LS.
Well I've kind of given up fixing it. I know it works for you and it's me and something I did. 
Those little specks dissolved but white cloudy stuff is settling at the bottom.
Soap is too runny, well perfectly runny for foamy pumps, however I tried using it in two and they both stopped working. 
It sort of worked in normal pumps but it's too runny. I tried thickening it with salt. It seems to work but buy the next morning I get two layers. Solid white soap on the bottom half and snotty top half.
I've added Bergamot EO to it and family complained it smells like black pepper. And indeed it does haha. So back to the drawing board and old glycerine method with three oils.
It's weird to wash hands with snot so I've given in and bought supermarket hand wash.
Like I said, nothing to do with your recipe it's probably me, made a mistake along the line.
It's actually funny.. I can't remember failing so badly in soapmaking in recent years.


----------



## IrishLass

Oh no, Fuzz-Juzz! It's hard for me to be able to say exactly what the problem might be since as I have never (to date) encountered the problems in my formula that you are experiencing, but I'm wondering if the changes you made to the CO and olive proportions, and also possibly the way the stearic was added was just enough to throw things off track? ....... Oh- another thought came to me just now- did you add the PS80? If not, that could be the reason why the stearic keeps coming out of suspension....or if you did add it, maybe you need to add a little more. The PS80 is a pretty critical ingredient in the formula to help keeps things together with the higher superfat %. I wouldn't give up just yet- maybe all that's needed is just a little bit more of it (PS80).


IrishLass


----------



## IrishLass

By the way, here is the easier alternative to the Pharmacist's Method of dissolving the KOH for the formula in this tutorial. For lack of a better term, I guess I'll refer to it as the 'easier water/glycerin method':

So far, I have only used this easier method of dissolving the KOH once for this particular formula. All went well with it, but I need to mention that if you use this easier method, the normal dilution rate that is spelled out earlier in this tutorial no longer applies and will need to be adjusted....

Here is the adjusted dilution rate for my Creamy Cocoa Shea formula when using the easy water/glycerin method of dissolving the KOH :

Distilled water: 31% of my finished paste weight
Sodium Lactate in 60% solution: 3% of my finished paste weight
Tetrasodium EDTA in 39% solution: 1.96% of my finished paste weight
Stearic Acid: 3% of my finished paste weight
PS80: .15% of my finished paste weight

Dilute in the same manner as spelled out earlier in my instructions, but use the above dilution rates instead. 

*The easy water/glycerin method of dissolving the KOH: *

Dissolve the 98g KOH called for in this tutorial in 98g of distilled water. Once it is dissolved (takes only a minute or 2), add the full recipe amount of glycerin to it (10.4 oz/294.8g). Give it a stir to combine, then add it into the warmed oils/fats. Quick and easy-peasy!


*Here is how things went for me when I did the above:*

After I poured my KOH/water/glycerin solution into my warmed oils/fats, I hand-whisked for 13 minutes before I switched over to my stick-blender (totally off the heat from here on out, by the way). During those 13 minutes that I hand-whisked, the temperature of the batter dropped from 149F/65C to 125F/52C and not much looked to be happening during that time except for a very slight thickening of the batter. In terms of appearance- the batter looked like slightly thickened light-beer. Continued with the intermittant stick-blending/hand-stirring (more hand-stirring than stick-blending, btw).......

Three minutes later (at the 16 minute mark), the temp went down to 120F/49C and the batter got thicker and took on a milky/opaque look. Continued in the same manner with the intermittant stick-blending/hand-stirring.......

Two minutes later (at the 18 minute mark), the batter started developing some large bubbles laying on the surface from the stick-blender, but they'd all go back down whenever I hand-stirred. Continued in the same manner with the intermittant stick-blending/hand-stirring.......

Two minutes later (at the 20 minute mark), the temp started going back up (121F/49.4C) and the batter started to gradually get thicker (only very slightly so). Continued in the same manner with the intermittant stick-blending/hand-stirring.......

Five minutes later (at the 25 minute mark), the temp went up to 125F/52C and the batter was at a nice med-thick trace. Continued in the same manner with the intermittant stick-blending/hand-stirring.......

One minute later (at the 26 minute mark), the temp increased to 127F/53C and the batter started thinning out considerably, but it was still opaque, and it had big bubbles on the surface that did not stir down. Continued in the same manner with the intermittant stick-blending/hand-stirring.......

Two minutes later (at the 28 minute mark) Lawrence Welk came for a visit (i.e., I had flying bubbles, lol). The temp. was 130F/54.4C, the batter was still somewhat thin (barely a light trace, but completely emulsified), and it was still opaque, and it looked like the milky/yellowish color of vanilla pudding. I covered my soaping pot with plastic wrap and started cleaning up my laboratory (kitchen).

Eleven minutes later (at the 39 minute mark), I happened to look over at my pot and it all still looked the same, but I picked up the pot and gave it a swirl just to see how the batter was doing, and it wouldn't budge! We had paste! WooHoo! Talk about quick!

I wish I had taken pictures, but I decided it was probably better to focus my attention on taking temps and writing everything down in real time as I went along, etc.... Maybe next time....


IrishLass


----------



## fuzz-juzz

Wow thank you again for extended reply. 
That was one speedy soap paste. Thanks for pointing out the difference in dilution, I would never think the way KOH is dissolved matters.
I did use Pharmacist way of dissolving KOH. I heat it slowly on the stove and it doesn't need to go really hot to dissolve.
So, I did dilute it without SL and EDTA as I understood that they are not really necessary. Maybe that was the first mistake.
I did add enough PS80. All measured out same as with Stearic acid. The way I mixed them in could be the issue. But apart from those little specks that appeared afterwards, everything looked fine at first.
The difference between OO and CO was only 10%, but like you said, that could've done something too.
Or just combination of everything. Maybe one of my ingredients was off or something. I guess we'll never know.
And then I manage to dilute it too much as the paste wasn't diluting as fast as I thought it would. 
I tried to fix it so many times I think I should just leave it and try making another batch.
It's just one of those times when soap gremlins are really hard at work.
I think next time, I should stick 100% to a new recipe. 
I don't want anyone to be discouraged from doing this LS as it obviously worked for you and others.


----------



## LBussy

fuzz-juzz said:


> I think next time, I should stick 100% to a new recipe.


“Imitation is not just the sincerest form of flattery - it's the sincerest form of learning.” 
― George Bernard Shaw

I think people too frequently go off the reservation when trying new things.  If you take someone's recipe and change it, it's no longer someone's recipe so you can't expect it to behave the same way.  I always adminish folks I teach to do exactly what I tell them once, then after they have some success they can make whatever mistakes they want.


----------



## cgpeanut

"Eleven minutes later (at the 39 minute mark), I happened to look over at my pot and it all still looked the same, but I picked up the pot and gave it a swirl just to see how the batter was doing, and it wouldn't budge! We had paste! WooHoo! Talk about quick!"




I take it that once you get the paste from the "quick method" you proceed on to the dilution steps as normal and only need to adjust the distilled water rate you add.


----------



## IrishLass

cgpeanut said:


> I take it that once you get the paste from the "quick method" you proceed on to the dilution steps as normal and only need to adjust the distilled water rate you add.


 
Correct. 


IrishLass


----------



## Dana89

*Thanks Irish Lass*

After going two months without soaping due too moving and getting used to the role of being a caregiver I decided to to make IL's liquid soap. I had made it once before but it didn't turn out nearly as beautiful as hers. 
I just re-read the tutorial word for word I got busy and am thrilled with the results.


It was just the boost I needed. I even started a second batch and it is changing right now to the creamy goodness it will be.


----------



## IrishLass

It looks just like mine!  It makes me so happy it turned out well for you the second time around. You made my day. 


IrishLass


----------



## shunt2011

That looks amazing. I still haven't had a chance to give it a try.


----------



## Dana89

IrishLass said:


> It looks just like mine!  It makes me so happy it turned out well for you the second time around. You made my day.
> 
> 
> IrishLass



No you made mine, but I do fault you for starting yet another addiction. My gunie pigs [family] LOVE IT.

The 2 best things about it are no cure time and I separate them into 8 0z bottles before i add the scent. I double your recipe and can make a lot of soap cheaper than bar soap and individually scent each bottle the each family members request. Plus less cost in EO's and FO's because I don't have to use nearly as much.
OMG [sorry for sounding like a teen] but the lather is so rich, creamy and plentiful.
so thanks again but shame on you for this terrible addiction you gave me.

OK now my question.I havent been making this for long so I am wondering if you think I should add somw germall + before giving it away, sorry, there should be a question mark there but it doesnt work.


----------



## Susie

I do not use preservatives, but I only give my liquid soap to very select people.


----------



## IrishLass

What Susie said is the same for me ^^^. I don't add any preservatives to mine either, and I only make it for myself and select family members.

I'm so glad you are enjoying the soap. 


IrishLass


----------



## Dana89

May I add a little advice? I have made a lot of batches (I have a large family that loves it) anyway I miscalculated and added to much water to a batch so I added some paste to the jar and put it back in the pot on a low rolling boil_ It exploded in the water> SO IF YOU EVER NEED TO REHEAT IT WOULD BE BEST TO USE A NEW JAR> It is the only time it happened to me so I think the Bail jar was weakened by a second boil_ oh I was so upset_it was sixteen oz of good soap I lost:
sorry about my post< my keyboard is fried>


----------



## LBussy

Keyboards are cheap.


----------



## Susie

Dana89 said:


> May I add a little advice? I have made a lot of batches (I have a large family that loves it) anyway I miscalculated and added to much water to a batch so I added some paste to the jar and put it back in the pot on a low rolling boil_ It exploded in the water> SO IF YOU EVER NEED TO REHEAT IT WOULD BE BEST TO USE A NEW JAR> It is the only time it happened to me so I think the Bail jar was weakened by a second boil_ oh I was so upset_it was sixteen oz of good soap I lost:
> sorry about my post< my keyboard is fried>



Did you have the jar on a dishcloth or rack to keep it off the bottom?


----------



## Dana89

Yes I had a rack at the bottom, its possible the heats was to high< but it wasnt at a fULL rOLLInG bOIL. MINE gOES FrOM ONE TO TEN aND IT WAs ON sIx WHEN IT BUSTED< I JUST THINK IT WAS MAY BEcAUSE THE JAR HAD BE BROUGHT TO A BOIL ONCE BEFoRE A CouPLE TIMEs>

@LBUSSY_ IF IT WERE ONLY THAT EASY> IT IS A LAPTOP First of all or rEallY A NOTEBOOK> I TREID THE ONSCREEN KEYBoARd IT IT IS DOING THE SAME THING< I PLUGGED A NEW KEYBOARD INTO IT AND IT DOES THE SAME THINK SO IT IS A HARDWARE PROBLEM< THANKFULLY IT IS STILL UNDER WARRANTY> BUT THEY ARE SENDING ME A BOX TO MAIL IT TO THEM AND THAT WILL SEVEN TO TEN DAYS BefoRE IT IS EVEN sHIPPED BACk.


----------



## LBussy

Eesh!  Good luck!


----------



## Dahila

Irishlass, I have a question about adding the stearic acid to soap dilution.   The "Baker's Percentage" 
Do you add stearic acid with your water, SL and Edta, PS80?


----------



## IrishLass

I add the stearic acid and PS80 to my canning jar along with the paste and set aside momentarily. Then I combine the water, sodium lactate, and EDTA to a small pot and heat to boiling, then I pour it immediately into my jar of paste/stearic/PS80 before covering and setting the jar in my boiling water bath.


IrishLass


----------



## Dahila

thank you so much Irishlass)


----------



## topofmurrayhill

dana89 said:


> yes i had a rack at the bottom, its possible the heats was to high< but it wasnt at a full rolling boil. Mine goes from one to ten and it was on six when it busted< i just think it was may because the jar had be brought to a boil once before a couple times>
> 
> @lbussy_ if it were only that easy> it is a laptop first of all or really a notebook> i treid the onscreen keyboard it it is doing the same thing< i plugged a new keyboard into it and it does the same think so it is a hardware problem< thankfully it is still under warranty> but they are sending me a box to mail it to them and that will seven to ten days before it is even shipped back.



go to the accessibility options> make sure all the keyboard_related items are turned off>


----------



## Arimara

I'm finally making a variation of this soap. I am using  Babassu and PKO flakes instead of coconut oil, a chocolate stout instead of water, and I do not have Teatrasodium EDTA or Sodium Lactate. I do realize my soap will be nothing like yours but it's worth a shot. I also forgot about my glycerin again. I still haven't made liquid soap with any yet though.


----------



## CaraBou

Would it be unsafe or otherwise undesirable to add the oils to the KOH/glycerin solution rather than adding the lye/glycerin solution to the oils?  I ask because I only have one reasonable-sized stainless steel pot.  If adding oils to the lye solution is not a wise idea, I suppose I could heat/melt the lye & glycerin solution in the SS pot, transfer that solution into a high heat resistant plastic container (#5?), melt my oils in the microwave within a plastic bowl, dump the melted oils into the vacated SS pot, and then add the lye solution back into the pot. However, I would prefer to avoid the extra pouring and dirty dishes if possible.

I know it is extremely dangerous to add water to lye, but there's no water in this recipe. Would the same problem occur with adding oils to lye?


----------



## IrishLass

CaraBou-  I'm not sure if you saw my note (in red) under Step 2 on page one of this tutorial, but instead of cooking the KOH/glycerin to dissolve the KOH, I've now taken to dissolving the KOH in an equal amount of room temp water in a plastic container (dissolves in less than a minute), and then I add my full complement of glycerin to the lye solution before adding it into my warmed oils. Here's a link to my newer (and much easier) method of dissolving the KOH:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=593798&postcount=82

Doing it this way will, of course, mean that the dilution rate will be different, but I have that all worked out. Instead of the 41.3% dilution water as per paste weight I use when using the 'Pharamcist's Method of dissolving the KOH, I only need 31% dilution water as per paste weight when using the newer/easier method of dissolving the KOH. 

The newer easier way will take care of your problem of having only 1 pot. 


IrishLass


----------



## CaraBou

Hey, thanks!  I did see those instructions.  But, in true soaper fashion, I plunged into the pharmacist's method because it just seemed like the more tried and true method.  Plus it was seemed like a right of passage .  So guess what; I also dumped my oils into the lye solution.  I took it all outside first, and covered as much skin as possible _just in case_. But I kinda figured it would probably be okay, and it was.  

No flying bubbles, possibly due to poor light, old eyes, or improper technique.  But we shall see what tomorrow brings - paste or not.  It's okay to leave this 24 hours, til after work tomorrow, eh?


----------



## IrishLass

CaraBou said:


> Plus it was seemed like a right of passage .


 




CaraBou said:


> It's okay to leave this 24 hours, til after work tomorrow, eh?


 

Yes! 


IrishLass


----------



## Rowan

Thank you so much for posting this amazingly detailed tutorial Irish Lass!   I had great fun making this 3 days ago.  Unfortunately it went wrong at the end, my error and I just wondered if you could help me trouble shot?

I followed all the steps exactly, even using exactly the same amounts of ingredients (and running it through summer bee calculator, to help me learn how to use it better), until the dilution stage but didn't have a canning jar, so chose to use the crock pot instead.  

I weighed the entire batch of soap paste and used the formula to work out how much water, stearic acid, sodium lactate and polysorbate 80 to add.  I left out the EDTA as I didn't have any and upped the water percentage as suggested.

The crock pot was heated and the stearic acid, taffy/ liquid soap ( it was really solid) and  PS 80 was added.   I must admit I forgot to heat the water and sodium lactate and just added these directly.  The pot was covered in cling film and lid put on to limit water escaping and then it was left an hour and a half on medium.  I checked it twice, however there was still bits of solid paste.  It was incredibly thick, so thick that the stick blender couldn't work. I think I must have lost a fair amount of liquid despite the precautions and had to add 200g of water to make it thin enough for the stick blender to work. I let it cool in the crock pot.

Unfortunately  it didn't turn white throughout. 3 days later I still have a thick layer of white on top of the liquid soap, which is not bubbles. Underneath it's like thick amber  honey.  I may be wrong but have a feeling that the stearic didn't fully combine?? .  If this is the case, would heating it and adding more PS 80 make it possible to combine the layers?  Is it possible to save this batch? Thank you so much in advance for any help.


----------



## IrishLass

Hi Rowan!

I would say that about 99.9% of the time it's always possible to save soap. 

I've never diluted mine using a crockpot, but if I has to guess, I think you are absolutely correct- it sounds like a stearic issue. Either the stearic did not get hot enough to melt properly, or else didn't stay melted for long enough in order for it to become one with the soapy matrix is what I'm thinking. 

Do you know how hot your crockpot actually gets? It's possible it doesn't get hot enough to be able to melt stearic well enough and/or keep it melted for long enough. Boiling the water and SL before adding it to the paste would definitely have helped to jumpstart things, but if your crockpot does not get hot enough to be able to maintain that temp, boiling the water beforehand would possibly have been for naught.

If it were me, this is what I would do. I would scoop off the white top and set it aside in a separate heat-safe vessel, then I would heat each portion in their separate vessels (covered) in the oven set to 200F/93C- until the amber soap is hot and the white part is (hopefully) melted. Then I would combine them together into one vessel and heat the combo (covered) some more for good measure- adding water if it looks too thirsty- and I'd heat it until it looked/felt like it could take to the stick-blender. If all went well after stick-blending, I would then pour it off into a jar or something see-through with a tight cover, and leave it for 24 hours to see what it does.

Let me know how it goes!


IrishLass


----------



## Rowan

Hi Irish Lass

Thanks so much for your suggestions. The crockpot cooks quite hot, about 180-200F.

I had a go at fixing the soap earlier before I saw your reply. I think your method would have been easier!!!

I microwaved the soap to 80C,  at which point it was very liquid and then stick blended it together. It got incredibly thick really quickly, so I heated it again and added 100g water(which had been warmed to 80C) and stick blended some more. It was incredibly liquid to start, so much so that I was worried it would be too thin, but as it cooled it became super thick. Almost like a cream soap but more plasticky and almost solid! Methinks I over stick blended or it needed more water? I heated it again and added an additional 50g of hot water but the same thing happened.

I was really nervous to continue heating and adding more water because I didn't want to keep stick blending and making it worse.  I'll try and post pictures tomorrow evening after work. I left it to settle at 4pm and viewed it just now. It's still white throughout but slightly looser and darker at the bottom. It'll be interesting to see how it fares tomorrow


----------



## Shahtura

*Will this work?*



DeeAnna said:


> EDTA is not required in soap, but it does offer some nice benefits. EDTA helps prevent oxidation and rancidity (aka DOS). It also helps to reduce the soap scum that forms when you use lye soap in hard water.
> 
> You can also use sodium citrate to do much the same thing. You can either add sodium citrate directly to your soap, or you can make it indirectly by adding citric acid to your soap batter. If you use citric acid, you will need to add a bit of extra lye that the acid will react with. Citric acid + Lye => Sodium citrate.
> 
> But in the end, you don't have to use either one in your soap.



I am going to try making IL recipe from beginning of this thread but I have a few ingridiants that I don't have and can not easily get so I have a few questions:

1. I have no tetra sodium EDTA but I have citric acid. DeeAnna mentions that EDTA can be substituted by Citric acid+NaoH . Do I need to mix them with water prior to adding to soap butter? how much do I have to add in case I use the same amount of oil as IL recipe suggests?

2. I don't have sodium lactate. Is it essential and are there substitutes in case I don't get it?

3. I don't have seed oil (I don't know what it is or where to get it where I live). Do I need another oil for SF and if so what kind of oil would be a good substitute?

Thanks in advance, Eyal


----------



## DeeAnna

I personally would not use citric acid in liquid soap, even with the extra lye needed for the citrate reaction. The reason why I say that is the citric acid can really mess up liquid soap if the balance between the acid and the NaOH is even a little off. Bar soap can tolerate a bit of imbalance, but liquid soap is very, very particular. Just try it plain -- it will still make good soap! All but the last of my liquid soap batches have not had EDTA, and they have worked out fine.

I know IL and Susie use sodium lactate when diluting their liquid soap, but I tried it only once and otherwise have not used it. I'm rather absent minded sometimes. I've had the best of intentions to use SL more, but I've simply been forgetful and have survived diluting my LS without it. So I guess what I'm trying to say is sodium lactate is nice but not essential.


----------



## IrishLass

Shahtura-  no worries. The Tetrasodium EDTA and the sodium lactate are not absolute necessities in this recipe- you can make the soap without them- but since the type of each that I use in this recipe are in solution form and make up part of my total liquid /water amount when diluting the paste, if you choose to leave them out, you may find that you'll have to increase the percentage of your dilution water a little bit in order to compensate for their absence (in order to get the same kind of consistency that I am able to get in my finished soap).

In regards to the meadowfoam seed oil, you can certainly use a different liquid oil in its place if you wish. If you have access to almond oil or jojoba oil or avocado oil, any of those would work great.


IrishLass


----------



## Shahtura

IrishLass said:


> Shahtura-  no worries. The Tetrasodium EDTA and the sodium lactate are not absolute necessities in this recipe- you can make the soap without them- but since the type of each that I use in this recipe are in solution form and make up part of my total liquid /water amount when diluting the paste, if you choose to leave them out, you may find that you'll have to increase the percentage of your dilution water a little bit in order to compensate for their absence (in order to get the same kind of consistency that I am able to get in my finished soap).
> 
> In regards to the meadowfoam seed oil, you can certainly use a different liquid oil in its place if you wish. If you have access to almond oil or jojoba oil or avocado oil, any of those would work great.
> 
> 
> IrishLass



Thanks DeeAnna and IrishLass.

I will skip the SL and EDTA for this time. I think that sweet almond oil is the most accessible for me.


----------



## Misschief

I made this again today, with the easier method. I decided to make it with my almost 8 y.o. grandson who is fascinated by anything science-y. Two parts made him almost giddy with excitement... the flying bubbles and testing with phenolphthalein. He thought both were AWESOME!!!

This batch smells way better than the first couple of batches I made and it was SO easy! It took a grand total of about 18 minutes to go from liquid to gel. Now that it has cooled, it's in the fridge waiting to be diluted. That will happen early in the new year. I have to say thank you, IL, DeeAnna, and all you math and science geeks. I find it all fascinating but the math involved sometimes makes my head spin.


----------



## CaraBou

I'm glad this got bumped. I've been meaning to say I really like the recipe and appreciate IL for sharing it.  It's great to have a handmade liquid soap at the sink for anyone to use


----------



## PlumCrzy

This weekend I made your creamy cocoa/Shea GLS - my first ever LS.  And it came out wonderfully!  I'm very happy you provided such a detailed tutorial.  One question- this is the first time I've ever used cocoa butter and the half of the GLS that I left unscented has a very slight cocoa butter smell.  Is that to be expected?


----------



## Susie

Not IrishLass, but yes, it is normal.  Especially if you have a sensitive nose like me.


----------



## smengot0

Awesome tutorial IL. Thank you. I have tried the first recipe.  Diluted last night. Will post pictures tomorrow. I think It was a success. Will try your 2nd recipe next. I love the creamy look of the finished soap - like an exotic smoothie. Thanks everyone. I love this forum.


----------



## IrishLass

You're very welcome, Smengot0.  Looking forward to the pics!


IrishLass


----------



## smengot0

IrishLass said:


> You're very welcome, Smengot0.  Looking forward to the pics!
> 
> 
> IrishLass




Hello house! See my attempt at GLS. What do you think IrishLass? Hope you all approve. Hope you get to see the pics. Uploading is difficult. My photography skills are zero...


----------



## shunt2011

It turned out awesome.


----------



## smengot0

shunt2011 said:


> It turned out awesome.





Thanks


----------



## smengot0

IrishLass said:


> I add the stearic acid and PS80 to my canning jar along with the paste and set aside momentarily. Then I combine the water, sodium lactate, and EDTA to a small pot and heat to boiling, then I pour it immediately into my jar of paste/stearic/PS80 before covering and setting the jar in my boiling water bath.
> 
> 
> IrishLass





IrishLass please how do I add honey to my LS? I want a honey LS. Thanks


----------



## Arimara

smengot0 said:


> IrishLass please how do I add honey to my LS? I want a honey LS. Thanks



That should have been added when making the actual paste itself. You have a lovely, chic soap by the way.


----------



## IrishLass

Ditto what Arimara said. Add the honey up front, i.e., when you are mixing your paste ingredients together.


IrishLass


----------



## smengot0

Thanks Arimara and IrishLass. I appreciate your help


----------



## NsMar42111

Reviving this to say THANK YOU again to IrishLass-this worked wonderfully! I actually got the whole process except superfatting/fragrance done in one day on this try, my paste was zapless in less than 3 hours so I diluted. Smells wayyyyyyyy better than the previous versions I did . Thank you for sharing!


----------



## lolaM

*made an arse of it! anyway to save my paste?*

so i have clearly buggered up my soap paste. followed irishlass' recipe- however using half distilled water and half glycerin (because its expensive where i live)
anyway.... it pretty much just turned to custard/pudding colour and consistancy after 10minutes of hand whisking. continued for another 10 and no change.
reviewed the recipe i had written down and i believe i have misread the amounts.i think i put the lye amount the same as the water.
so 147grams KOH instead of 98g mixed with 147.5 water and equal parts glycerin with the rest of the ingredients/volumes the same in this original thread.
Can i save this paste somehow?
would hate to waste all that lovely coco butter....


----------



## DeeAnna

I think you can save this, since you know the amount of your error, but it will be a bit of an experiment. 

The extra KOH you added = 147 - 98 = 49 grams

Calculate the fat blend needed to react with this extra 49 grams of KOH. Hint -- it's going to be half the fat blend that you used originally. 

Add the extra fat and maybe some extra water to get the paste softened enough to mix easily with the fat. Be careful while mixing -- at the very least wear eye protection because mixing liquids into lye heavy soap paste may cause spatters, and you don't want that stuff in your eyes. Keep track of any extra water added so you can take that into account later when you dilute the paste. 

At this point, I personally would probably gently warm this mixture to 160-180 F (70-75 C) or thereabouts, cover it tightly, and let it sit undisturbed for a day or three in a safe place. It should saponify fine. Remember if you do a zap test to check if the paste is fully saponified, be sure to do so very carefully. (See the zap test tutorial http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=63199) The point here is to give it enough time to saponify and become zap free. Then dilute per IL's instructions.


----------



## lolaM

thank you soooo much for your advise DeeAnna, and your super fast response! ive been cold processing for a few years but im brand new in liquid soaping and only just stumbled upon this forum and it will now be my first go-to for any info and help. Amazing support for newbies trying to get advice and info from the experts who handcraft natural products at home!


----------



## DeeAnna

You're welcome! I hope Irish Lass or Susie or some of the other liquid soapers chime in with their thoughts, because they may have ideas and suggestions that may be even more useful.


----------



## Kate

IL, can I use potassium carbonate to chelate instead of EDTA?


----------



## DeeAnna

Potassium carbonate is not a chelant, so, no, it won't work as an alternative to EDTA. 

Sodium or potassium citrate is the other common chelator used in handcrafted soap.


----------



## MullersLaneFarm

Wonderful tutorial, IrishLass.  Since I'm venturing into LS this month, I'll be able to use quite a bit of the information in this thread!

Thank you IL and all the contributors who asked questions!!


----------



## robzank

I've searched through this thread but couldn't find an answer to the following: 

Regarding the easy water/glycerin method for dissolving KOH, the instructions are to dissolve KOH in an equal amount of water and then add the full recipe amount of glycerin. However, doesn't this now change the 25% lye concentration of the original recipe? 

Couldn't you dissolve the KOH in an equal amount of water and then add 2/3 glycerin so that you maintain a true 25% lye solution (aka 3:1 ratio)? The only disadvantage is your final soap paste will have less glycerin as compared to the original recipe. To account for this, can we add additional glycerin during the paste dilution stage?


----------



## IrishLass

robzank said:


> I've searched through this thread but couldn't find an answer to the following:
> 
> Regarding the easy water/glycerin method for dissolving KOH, the instructions are to dissolve KOH in an equal amount of water and then add the full recipe amount of glycerin. However, doesn't this now change the 25% lye concentration of the original recipe?
> 
> Couldn't you dissolve the KOH in an equal amount of water and then add 2/3 glycerin so that you maintain a true 25% lye solution (aka 3:1 ratio)? The only disadvantage is your final soap paste will have less glycerin as compared to the original recipe. To account for this, can we add additional glycerin during the paste dilution stage?


 
Welcome Robzanc. :wave: Yes- it does change the 25% lye concentration, but I adjust for that by adding less water during dilution time. 

If you look at my note that I add in the beginning of this tutorial where I write the instruction for diluting the paste, you'll see that I specify using 31% water as per paste instead of 41.3% water as per paste if using the easier method of dissolving the lye:



			
				IrishLass
 said:
			
		

> -100% Paste
> -41.3% Distilled Water [NOTE: If using the *easier method of dissolving the KOH*, use 31% distilled water instead]
> -3% Sodium Lactate in 60% solution
> -3% Stearic Acid
> -1.96% Tetrasodium EDTA in 39% solution
> -.15% Polysorbate 80


 
In the end, the soap comes out the same consistency whether you keep to a 25% concentration up front, or use a lesser concentration up front, just as long as you make sure to add less dilution water if you used a lesser lye concentration up front.

For what its worth, I actually like using the lesser lye concentration up front because my batter turns into paste much quicker for me.


IrishLass


----------



## robzank

Thanks IrishLass. I understand that is why you add less water when you  dilute your paste (because you already added more to begin with).

I guess my question was more about the chemistry of the saponification  process and whether having a true 25% lye solution vs something less  concentrated changes anything other than time taken to trace?


----------



## Susie

The paste is easier to work with and dilute when you use the 25% lye solution.  Just that.  Glycerin is the magic ingredient that speeds trace.


----------



## robzank

I wanted to share my experience of making IrishLass' most wonderful recipe.

I didn't deviate much from the original other than dissolving the KOH in an equal amount of water, and then adding the full glycerin amount to my liquefied oils (instead of the lye solution) before stick blending. I made a 500g batch with an initial superfat of 3%, and then added apricot kernel oil as my superfat post soap dilution. No EDTA. Pics below.

Melting the hard oils:






I thought my stick blender was of a strong enough plastic to withstand heat - it wasn't and ended up deforming slightly (not shown). Next purchase is a blender with a stainless steel stem!





I didn't experience the flying bubbles stage and stopped once the mixture became difficult to mix even with a spoon.





Here is the mixture wrapped in cling wrap and about to be left overnight. The cling wrap decreases the 'real' temperature by about 15 degrees F.


----------



## robzank

FWIW I zap tested after about 3hrs and there was no zap, but I left it undisturbed overnight until the following morning when it was time to aliquot the paste.









Here is my scientifically patented design for diluting/heating the paste after addition of water, sodium lactate, stearic acid, and PS80. I used 31% of water (not 41.3% because I initially dissolved my KOH in water) and did not add EDTA so compensated by adding extra water.





I initially heated the paste for 1hr and then left it with the heat off for 0.5hr, but found it needed another 0.5 hr of heating followed by 0.5hr with the heat off. I then stick blended and left it overnight. It took about 12-16 hrs at room temp. until it turned white from the stearic acid.


----------



## robzank

This is what my mixture looked like after adding the superfat (2.052% + 3% PS80) and EOs of Tea Tree and Lemongrass (at a final concentration of 1% with equal amount PS80). I used apricot kernel oil as my superfat.






And for the final test, very nice. I just hope my mixture doesn't separate in 24hrs (I've had bad experiences in the past with EOs in the absence of PS80, so I'm hoping the PS80 does its job).


----------



## IrishLass

Looks great! 

IrishLass


----------



## robzank

The idea of an additional superfat post dilution really works well for this GLS recipe. I just tried jojoba oil as the SF and liked it better than apricot kernel oil.

I'm wondering whether the SF post dilution idea can be applied to the 65 Olive, 25 Coconut, 10 Castor GLS recipe? Or is it a waste because that recipe is already quite high in olive oil?


----------



## IrishLass

I tried superfatting after-the-fact once with the 65% OO recipe and I just didn't like it as well (I used meadowfoam seed oil). It cut down on the lather too much for my liking. However, I have it on my list to try making it with an up-front 4% or 5% superfat to see what happens.


IrishLass


----------



## sephera

Hi

I finally did it. I feel like I got some fumes onto my bare upper chest will that be okay. I put some balm on. 

Also I used my normal wisk, If I neutralise it with vinegar can I use it normally again?

Melted my special plastic stick blender. Argh.

Thanks Irish Lass for the recipe.

I also accidentally added a couple extra grams like 2-3 of lye. But I continued on as I did want to pour out again so I added a bit more glycerine. Hope it turns out OK.

If I don't have all those extra ingredients for dulition yet can I just use distilled water, jojoba oil, and the soap paste.


----------



## BattleGnome

You can just use the distilled water for dilution. The jojoba oil will probably float on top of your soap if you don’t have an emulsifier to mix it in


----------



## Soapprentice

I tried this recipe today and the batter went from liquid to transparent in 10 min I stopped stick blending andit went to opaque in like 1... no flying bubble stage at all... I dissolved the lye in equal amount of water and added glycerine and added them to the oils...
I don’t know what I am feeling.. is it right?

It is solid... can’t stir with the spatula.. I’m very worried.


----------



## Saffron

Could it be that you used NaOH instead of KOH?


----------



## Susie

Soapprentice said:


> I tried this recipe today and the batter went from liquid to transparent in 10 min I stopped stick blending andit went to opaque in like 1... no flying bubble stage at all... I dissolved the lye in equal amount of water and added glycerine and added them to the oils...
> I don’t know what I am feeling.. is it right?
> 
> It is solid... can’t stir with the spatula.. I’m very worried.



It looks fine to me.  I hardly ever get flying bubble stage.  But if you followed the recipe, this is paste stage.  Wait for gel, zap test, and dilute if zapless.  Congratulations!


----------



## Soapprentice

Saffron said:


> Could it be that you used NaOH instead of KOH?


No..  pretty sure it’s KOH


----------



## Soapprentice

Susie said:


> It looks fine to me.  I hardly ever get flying bubble stage.  But if you followed the recipe, this is paste stage.  Wait for gel, zap test, and dilute if zapless.  Congratulations!


Thank goodness... I followed the recipe to the T and I didn’t see anywhere online the batter looking to opaque, so you know.. got lil worried


----------



## DeeAnna

Looks fine to me too. Sometimes the paste is translucent, sometimes it's opaque. Sometimes it's fairly hard and sometimes it's more paste like. Sometimes there are flying bubbles, but I've never seen them.

IMO, making LS paste is less about seeing the soap going through certain types of stages and more about the paste reaching a stable trace so I can stop mixing and then becoming zap free.


----------



## Soapprentice

DeeAnna said:


> Looks fine to me too. Sometimes the paste is translucent, sometimes it's opaque. Sometimes it's fairly hard and sometimes it's more paste like. Sometimes there are flying bubbles, but I've never seen them.
> 
> IMO, making LS paste is less about seeing the soap going through certain types of stages and more about the paste reaching a stable trace so I can stop mixing and then becoming zap free.



I just checked it... it is zapless and is very very hard.... almost like cutting cocoa butter at room temperature... for a minute I thought it might be NaOH and then again if it was NaOH,the soap should zap as I would have added almost 25g more than req.


----------



## Soapprentice

I cut the yesterday’s soap and it does zap inside... I made the soap again with for sure KOH and the entire process is different.. guess what, I experienced flying bubbles stage....so it is indeed NaOH that I used yesterday, will be rebatching it soon.


----------



## IrishLass

I'm very glad to hear you got it figured out, or else things sure would have become even more interesting at diluting time! lol 




IrishLass


----------



## Soapprentice

IrishLass said:


> I'm very glad to hear you got it figured out, or else things sure would have become even more interesting at diluting time! lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IrishLass


I know.... m very curious to see how this soap with so much glycerine will turn out to be..


----------



## Soapprentice

Does anyone use anything other than canning jars for dilution? I do not have any with a metal cap... Is there any reusable option? And no crockpot either.


----------



## DeeAnna

I don't heat my paste to dilute, so any container that's handy and clean works fine for me. I often dilute in a kitchen bowl covered with a dinner plate. When diluted, the soap goes into any suitable plastic container with a secure closure.


----------



## bathgeek

Soapprentice said:


> Does anyone use anything other than canning jars for dilution? I do not have any with a metal cap... Is there any reusable option? And no crockpot either.



I use five gallon buckets.


----------



## Soapprentice

How long does it take for the soap to dilute without heating generally? Do we need stick blend it in between?


----------



## Saponificarian

I don’t think so. I just put enough water for my paste and leave it to do it’s thing and occasionally shake or stir.  Mine takes a few days. 2-3 days at room temperature.


----------



## bathgeek

Same. I usually leave it a week because I’m busy doing other stuff and I forget... ^_^


----------



## DeeAnna

It takes a day or three to dilute at room temperature. To start, I mash the paste into smaller chunks with a potato masher, add most (but not all) of the dilution water I think it will need, then let the mixture sit. Every so often when I think about it, I stir or mash the mixture some more.

Once most of the paste becomes liquid, I decide if it needs more water, add water as needed, and let it sit for a bit longer. As the soap gets closer to the right thickness, I add less and less water at each addition.

I don't usually stick blend it, but you can. Stick blending will work best when the soap is close to being diluted, so there aren't a lot of big lumps that a SB'er can't deal with. Stick blending might create heavy foam, but that will eventually dissipate.


----------



## IrishLass

If you are making this particular formula- creamy cocoa shea- I don't know if it's possible to dilute it without applied heat because of the addition of the stearic acid that is added once the paste is finished/tongue-neutral. Stearic acid requires heat to melt, and the paste/dilution water also need to be at the same temp as the melted stearic in order for them to properly combine together and not end up with solid stearic bits in the finished soap (which I remember happening to a another soaper who tried adding melted stearic to the soap after it had already been diluted). 

Re: stickblending. I've not ever tried forgoing the stickblender with this particular formula because of the added stearic (I consider a nice bit of high-shear blending at the end of dilution while things are still hot to be good insurance against stearic bits), but one can always try and report back how it worked out. I'd try it myself if I had a mind to, but I'm too hesitant to do so with this particular formula. 

Re: canning jars. Although I personally love using canning jars when diluting (they work out perfectly for me), you can certainly use other means. I've actually been meaning to experiment with either roasting bags or sous vide bags, which are boilable, but I just haven't done so yet.  


IrishLass


----------



## Soapprentice

I used a stainless steel 'lota', as we call it in our language, and it worked well... Here it is.. thank you guys for helping and thank you irishlass for teaching.


----------



## sephera

Hi All, 

I might have got some fumes on a bare chest, doing the heat/Glycerine/KOH method. 

I don't recommend that fumes are very hot. 

I didn't see the water KOH/Glycerine method.


----------



## girlfromoz

Wow thank-you for sharing, very generous of you to provide such information and help . I make Liquid Soap and so far am happy with it generally but hardly an expert, fabulous stuff, cheers


----------



## Anita32

IrishLass said:


> *Superfat Time!*
> 
> Once the soap looks like the soap in the last picture in the above post, it's good and ready to be stirred and super-fatted with Meadowfoam Seed Oil/PS80.
> 
> To super-fat, I must first figure out the weight of the soap in my jar since I will be super-fatting it as per my finished soap’s weight (which is a 2.052% S/F, btw). Technically, although I could just super-fat it as per the paste's weight of my dilution (which as was stated in post #1 turns out to be 3% of the paste's weight), I rather like to figure it as per the finished soap's weight at the end, because I never know how much of the soap may have been left behind when I opened the jar to stir or stick-blend during dilution.
> 
> To figure out how much soap is in my jar without having to pour it out, I first weigh the covered jar of soap on my scale, and then I subtract from it the weight of the empty jar w/cover that I had jotted down earlier at the very beginning.
> 
> Once I have figured out how much soap I have, I multiply it by 2.053% to come up with the weight of Meadowfoam super-fat to add. Then I multiply the Meadowfoam's weight by 3% to calculate how much PS80 to mix with it in order to solubize it into my soap. You can go higher on the PS80 if you need to, but I've found 3% of the Meadowfoam Seed Oil is all that I need. For what it's worth, I weigh these 2 things out on my small Jenning's scale, which can weigh things accurately in very small increments.
> 
> You can use a different super-fatting oil of your choice other than Meadowfoam if you want, but as I stated earlier, I like to use Meadowfoam because it's very high in anti-oxidants and is one of the most (if not *the* most) shelf-stable of all vegetable oils on the planet, which comes in especially handy for the super-fatting task at hand, since it has not had the benefit of reacting head-on with the full brunt of the lye. If your extra superfatting oil happens to be very fragile, your finished soap might not have as long of a shelf-life as mine seems to have with the Meadowfoam. For what it's worth, my finished, superfatted liquid soap stays lovely for at least over a year. And I don't use preservatives.
> 
> Once the oil and PS80 have been calculated, weighed out and mixed together, I then open my jar and stir the mixture into the soap. No heat and no stick-blending is needed for this step. Just stir it right in.
> 
> This is what it should look like in the end:
> 
> View attachment 28472
> 
> 
> View attachment 28473
> 
> 
> At this point you can either decant some (or all) into a beaker to scent and then package into pump-bottles or squeeze-bottles, or else cover the jar and store at room temp indefinitely until needed.
> 
> To scent, I like to add anywhere from .3% to 1% scent as per the weight of my decanted soap. The question of how much fragrance to add depends on the following two factors: 1) the maximum usage rate of the chosen scent as per the manufacturer’s recommendation, and 2) its particular strength (i.e., how strong it smells).
> 
> Once the amount of scent has been calculated and weighed out, I then mix it with an equal amount of PS80 before stirring it into the decanted soap (to emulsify). Again- no heat is needed for this part. Just stir in right in, pour the soap into your chosen bottle, and enjoy!
> 
> For what it's worth, this is my absolute favorite liquid soap to use...... and my family's, too.


Can I use aloe juice and hydrosols for dilution or is it strictly distilled water?


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## DeeAnna

I do not recommend anything but water for dilution. If you use aloe or hydrosols to dilute, you are adding carbohydrates to the soap and that increases the chances of microbial growth.


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## Soapprentice

So guys, it's summer here and there is an interesting experience... The liquid soap did not turn pearly opaque... It is cloudy clear.. and when we move the bottle to an air conditioned room, the opaque action takes place and once it is moved back into the room temp, it goes back to the cloudy clear.. the temp here is 35-40 degrees C..


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## IrishLass

That _is_ interesting! We are experiencing the same kinds of high temps here where I live, so I'm going to put a small amount of my soap outside and see what happens.


IrishLass


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## redhead1226

Irishlass - Thank you so much for this! Even though I think my brain just exploded. Lovely recipe . I'll have to go back and read it again and make my notes. But I'm going to attempt it. Just made a LS that I like but I want to love it!.  HAHAHA on the " If you are unsure whether you felt a zap or not, then you can be sure that you did not. ...... lol -


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## zolveria

Can we heat this in a crock pot ? to help it along. after the welk stage ? @IrishLass


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## IrishLass

zolveria said:


> Can we heat this in a crock pot ? to help it along. after the welk stage ? @IrishLass




You most certainly can if you are in a hurry. 


IrishLass 

@IrishLass  Thank you .. funny i have a lot of froth in mine.  ( Is This Normal ) i mixed it in.. Its really not that different from making MP soap..  Needed to make this for some Beard Shampoo.... Thanks a billion..  


IrishLass said:


> You most certainly can if you are in a hurry.
> 
> 
> IrishLass



okay dont know why this soap is taking so long? it frothing.  and thickening slowly this happen before with my MP soap? but it should take this long? ... I measured everything to the T wired i even go the bubbles ..


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## zolveria

@IrishLass  something wierd happen yesterday.. the paste never formed. I did double the recipe ?
this morning i redid it only using 1 pound and it all work itself out paste formed now waiting for it do its little change.

IM perplexed.. as to what could have gone wrong. the only factor was the heat.. ARRGG


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## penelopejane

Irish lass has generously detailed the exact procedure to make liquid soap using a stress free method. 

You changed the process and now wonder why it didn’t work. 
Start again and follow Irish lass’s procedure to the letter.


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## zolveria

she said i can heat it.. I think the problem was i doubled everything .

I did it again this morning. 1lb only and all worked well.  

The doubling probably made it lye heavy which is weird. but all is well now  thanks guys 



penelopejane said:


> Irish lass has generously detailed the exact procedure to make liquid soap using a stress free method.
> 
> You changed the process and now wonder why it didn’t work.
> Start again and follow Irish lass’s procedure to the letter.


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## jax1962

Wow!!  Thank you so much from one Irish lass to another for this amazing tutorial.  Can't wait to give it a go.


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## jax1962

OK, paste made and zapless..... I don't have any canning jars and wonder if I can heat the whole batch and dilute in a crockpot - has anyone tried this method?


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## DeeAnna

Yes, many people use a crock pot. You can also dilute using no heat if you don't mind the process taking longer.


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## jax1962

DeeAnna said:


> Yes, many people use a crock pot. You can also dilute using no heat if you don't mind the process taking longer.


Thanks DeeAnna - off to play!!    I'll try crockpot method first but would also like to try the cold method, if using cold method, what do you do about the stearic acid?


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## jax1962

All diluted and cooling, it worked a treat - thanks again DeeAnna!  I'm already loving this luscious bubble monster!


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## DeeAnna

I forgot that stearic acid is part of this recipe. You can't use a cold method to incorporate the stearic acid. It has to get hot enough to melt.


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## Misschief

I've just re-read this entire thread and one thing I didn't see mentioned was colour. I've just diluted the last of the batch I made two years ago (forgot to label the paste but found the date made in this thread... I knew I made it in December but thought it was last year). I separated it into two fragrances but would like to colour one to differentiate it from the other. What's the best way to do so?


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## BattleGnome

I use liquid lab colors from Brambleberry, a little truly goes a long way for everything but blue. 

I imagine micas would eventually settle but someone may know of a good method


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## Misschief

BattleGnome said:


> I use liquid lab colors from Brambleberry, a little truly goes a long way for everything but blue.
> 
> I imagine micas would eventually settle but someone may know of a good method


Thank you. I decided to go ahead and experiment. I added a little water soluble colour to about a tsp of distilled water and added it to the liquid soap. It seems to have worked just fine for now. Time will tell.


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## dxw

Hmphhh! Soap is not inanimate, it's sentient. Not only that but it's malign sentient … existing entirely to trouble me.

I am now, for something completely different, trying this IrishLass recipe.

No problems with steps A through to E. I used the pharmacists' method, because it looked interesting, and found it quite gratifying to see it suddenly go crystal clear.

Stage F was interesting, however. It started out as per your photographs but never looked vaguely similar at any point after that. It went from clear yellow-brown liquid to a cream-yellow opalescent light curd/colloid and pretty much stayed there. I never got much in the way of surface bubbles but after a (long) while the mix started to thicken: first alight crepe batter; then a thicker batter; and then, OMG, it hit a medium then heavy trace and was too thick to shakeout of the whisk. I scraped the whisk clean, covered the container and ran away to try and read-up on what might have happened.

It was a lovely smooth thick heavy trace batter, without a bubble in sight on the surface or in the air :-(

Having found no similar fail-examples I headed back out an hour later to find it had separated into a heavy cream coloured 'froth' atop a deep amber syrup, about 50:50. I took a wooden spoon to explore the mix and as I stirred it gently a dozen beautiful little bubbles surrounded me. I guess I made it to the flying bubble stage (I had to look Lawrence Welk up). It's covered up now, I will look-in again in the morning.


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## biba.foster

Irish Lass -

I have searched the wide world of the interwebs trying to find a liquid soap recipe that actually works... yesterday I stumbled upon your tutorial (the soaping gods were smiling upon me)... I started my first batch at 3:30PM after reading your tutorial three times...  I was so excited that I barely could sleep!  I now have two quarts of the most beautiful, creamy liquid soap waiting to be scented and colored... can't wait to try it on my test subjects, my family... Thank you so much for taking the time to write this tutorial, it is a game changer for sure!!!


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## IrishLass

You are very welcome! 


IrishLass


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## beckster51

Irish Lass, this tute is amazing!  I have never tried LS, but I may be emboldened to do so with this as a crutch.  When I read books about it, it seemed so intimidating.  I have a stupid question.  I know it depends on dilution, but about how much soap does this make after dilution?  I am thinking of putting in an order for supplies.


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## Bibaof5

IrishLass said:


> You are very welcome!
> 
> 
> IrishLass


Just a quick update.... My first liquid soap made with your information had me hooked! It is perfection in a bottle! Thanks again!


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## IrishLass

Awesome! You're very welcome. 


IrishLass


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## ShirleyHailstock

IrishLass said:


> You are very welcome!
> 
> 
> IrishLass


I've been searching for the LS recipe that members are raving over. I searched under your name @IrishLass and variations of that. I find information, but no tutorials. You have so many messages, I couldn't go through them all, even the most recent ones. How do I search for your tutorials and tutorials in general? Thanks for your help.


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## Carly B

@ShirleyHailstock , the first post in this thread has a recipe from @IrishLass.  I didn't read the whole thread to see if there was a followup recipe, but that should get you started.  

ETA: The recipe is spread across several posts.  With lots of pictures.


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## Misschief

ShirleyHailstock said:


> I've been searching for the LS recipe that members are raving over. I searched under your name @IrishLass and variations of that. I find information, but no tutorials. You have so many messages, I couldn't go through them all, even the most recent ones. How do I search for your tutorials and tutorials in general? Thanks for your help.


Read this thread, all of it. There's a lot of great information here. It's one of two threads I refer to quite regularly; the other one is Songwind's Shaving Soap thread (My first shaving soap is a success).


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## Kcryss

I've gone over this thread a few times and hesitated to make it based on the use of polysorbate. However, I found a nice substitute for polysorbates and will be giving this a try very soon. According to what I've been finding, it should be a suitable replacement. 

From makeyourown.buzz: "Caprylyl Capryl Glucoside is a nonionic surfactant with excellent solubility, stability, surface and interfacial activities. It has excellent solubilizing properties in highly concentrated surfactant solutions also in the presence of salt and alkalies." "Excellent for use as a substitute or partial replacement for polysorbates to solubilize essential and fragrance oils in to liquid formulations."

Has anyone tried using Caprylyl Capryl Glucoside as a polysorbate substitute?


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## DeeAnna

The liquid soap making threads I recommend to people -- 

This thread that you're reading.

Also Irish Lass wrote another tutorial that I think is an easier to follow introduction to the cold process, superfatted method of liquid soap making. Irish Lass's other tutorial: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/soaping-101-liquid-soapmaking-video.46114/ See posts 8 and 9

I recommend that people NOT use the method of dissolving KOH in hot glycerin as she describes in the first part of Step 3. Read and follow her directions in RED toward the end of Step 3 where she explains how to dissolve KOH in room temperature water. Much easier and safer.

Also Susie provided another good tutorial on the superfatted CP method for making liquid soap. I think Susie's contribution is under-appreciated. Susie's tutorial: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/cold-process-liquid-soap.49852/

Another good resource: https://milesawayfarm.wordpress.com/2015/04/22/liquid-soapmaking-where-to-start/


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## Kcryss

Thanks @DeeAnna!


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## IrishLass

ShirleyHailstock said:


> I've been searching for the LS recipe that members are raving over. I searched under your name @IrishLass and variations of that. I find information, but no tutorials. You have so many messages, I couldn't go through them all, even the most recent ones. How do I search for your tutorials and tutorials in general? Thanks for your help.




Hi Shirley! I only have 2 LS tutorials...the one in this very thread (see posts 1 - 8) is my Creamy Cocoa Shea GLS tutorial, and the other one (my Crystal Clear GLS) is located in the first link that DeeAnna just provided above in post #197 (see posts 8 and 9 in the linked thread).


IrishLass


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## ShirleyHailstock

Misschief said:


> Read this thread, all of it. There's a lot of great information here. It's one of two threads I refer to quite regularly; the other one is Songwind's Shaving Soap thread (My first shaving soap is a success).


Thank you and WOW! I read all 8 segments and then the questions and answers.  You guys are great! I am so lucky I found this forum, especially since newbies are welcome.


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## ShirleyHailstock

IrishLass said:


> Hi Shirley! I only have 2 LS tutorials...the one in this very thread (see posts 1 - 8) is my Creamy Cocoa Shea GLS tutorial, and the other one (my Crystal Clear GLS) is located in the first link that DeeAnna just provided above in post #197 (see posts 8 and 9 in the linked thread).
> 
> 
> IrishLass


Thank you. I just read through the Creamy Cocoa one and the rest of this thread. The liquid looks creamy and soft. I'd love to try it. I've never made a liquid. I'm still in the beginning stages of CP. But finding something I can use right away will satisfy my impatient need to wait. I'm going to find the Crystal Clear GLS now. Thank you again.



Carly B said:


> @ShirleyHailstock , the first post in this thread has a recipe from @IrishLass.  I didn't read the whole thread to see if there was a followup recipe, but that should get you started.
> 
> ETA: The recipe is spread across several posts.  With lots of pictures.


Got it. Thanks for helping. I read every word.  I’m too much of a novice to tackle that right now. I made some lotion bars for Valentines Day and I love them. I feel like my skin is moisturized all the time without being greasy.


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## Juggsy

@IrishLass 
I make lots of liquid soap but have always heated it. The idea of just leaving it alone is extremely appealing.  Anyway, I have a question about your photos in first post.  Looks like you are using a double boiler? Are you? What is the stainless steel bowl with the pouring lip called? It looks like it has a handle too (think is why I thought double boiler)! I really want a mixing bowl with a lip and a handle but I've not come across one; the closest thing I've seen would be a chocolate pot but a lot of those aren't stainless steel and ones that are usually cost an arm and a leg, was hoping your pot might be a solution. Thanks in advance!


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## IrishLass

Juggsy said:


> @IrishLass
> I make lots of liquid soap but have always heated it. The idea of just leaving it alone is extremely appealing.  Anyway, I have a question about your photos in first post.  Looks like you are using a double boiler? Are you? What is the stainless steel bowl with the pouring lip called? It looks like it has a handle too (think is why I thought double boiler)! I really want a mixing bowl with a lip and a handle but I've not come across one; the closest thing I've seen would be a chocolate pot but a lot of those aren't stainless steel and ones that are usually cost an arm and a leg, was hoping your pot might be a solution. Thanks in advance!



Hi Juggsy- it is indeed a double boiler pot, made by Pampered Chef. It's catalog # is 2405 and it is a discontinued item, but you can find still it on places such as Ebay: Pampered Chef Double Boiler with Dipping Tool #2405 Stainless 2 Handles 99901024055 | eBay


IrishLass


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## Juggsy

IrishLass said:


> Hi Juggsy- it is indeed a double boiler pot, made by Pampered Chef. It's catalog # is 2405 and it is a discontinued item, but you can find still it on places such as Ebay: Pampered Chef Double Boiler with Dipping Tool #2405 Stainless 2 Handles 99901024055 | eBay
> 
> 
> IrishLass


You are amazing thank you. I need a new pot  (well that's my excuse). I know you don't do the KOH dissolving (over heat) anymore but this morning I thought I'd give this cold process liquid soap ago. I did dissolve over heat just because I (touch wood) am generally careful and I have a tall stainless steel beaker with handle (might be a milk jug but never seen one like one I've got) that fits 1200 mls so it's generally good size for KOH & NaOH.
Pretty impressed with results and not having to cook for a certain number of hours like I was taught (Catherine Failor's method) How I'd never done this before is beyond my understanding.  
It looks different to my normal glycerine LS. I'm wondering if I've been overcooking it for years.  I will dilute some tomorrow if I get time. Tnank you for linking the information   you truly are awesome.


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