# To Gel or Not to Gel?



## camd23 (May 29, 2011)

Can you please explain to me why preventing soap from gelling would be preferable to letting it gel?  

Thanks!


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## llineb (May 29, 2011)

I have tried both and like the gelled soap better b/c the colors turn out rich and dark.


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## Fullamoon (May 29, 2011)

Here is an example of different processes using the same exact recipe:







Top left is HP in the crockpot. Top right is forced gel, and bottom left is ungelled. The ungelled, though very pretty, is very light in color. It will need to cure for several weeks before it's ready. The forced gel is beautiful and the swirls are nice. It was easy to swirl.  The top left HP soap was a little difficult to swirl in that it was a thick applesauce consistency and the swirls aren't smooth. I didn't like that one at first. But now that I've cut a sliver and tried it out I LOVE it! (See the bottom right photo). I think it looks like stone and it's now my very favorite! I can't wait to try other colors.


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## camd23 (May 30, 2011)

Great examples!  Thanks.


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## soapbuddy (May 31, 2011)

I prefer not to gel. My recipe doesn't get ash. I can use less fragrance and less color and my soaps come out lighter then if I gelled. It's a personal preference.


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## Sibi (May 31, 2011)

I don't gel either because this way I don't have to worry about ash which I absolutely hate.  My colors come out pretty nicely even though I did not gel, here's an example:


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## DottieF. (Jun 1, 2011)

It's just a matter of preference. I gel all my soaps. Don't want to risk getting a partial gel and my soap never has any zap when I take it out of the mold like ungelled soap can. I also tend to get ash when I don't gel (in individual molds). Gel can screw with scent and cause some to morph or disappear. I just try to avoild scents that can't take the heat


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## hobbiz (Jun 3, 2011)

So, ungelling method can cause partial gel more easily?? Anyone tell me why and how to prevent it? Thanks!


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## Fullamoon (Jun 3, 2011)

If you use a thick mold and do not wrap with blankets and let it get very warm, only the inside, where it's very warm, will gel. The outer surrounding layer may not gel because it's closer t the cool air. This can even happen in the refrigerator!

If you pour into smaller molds (like 4 oz bar sizes) and then keep it cool, like in the refrigerator or on a tile floor in the winter months, it most likely will not gel. The look is creamier and not translucent.

So - keep it cool to NOT gel, and keep it warm and wrapped in an insulating blanket to force gel.


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## Guest (Jun 6, 2011)

i went for a soap making class, and the lady teaching told me that if i didn't insulate it and let it gel, my soap wouldn't be soap.. I'm thinking she doesn't know what she's talking about since all of u have gorgeous ungelled soaps!


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## soapbuddy (Jun 6, 2011)

glassdoll said:
			
		

> i went for a soap making class, and the lady teaching told me that if i didn't insulate it and let it gel, my soap wouldn't be soap.. I'm thinking she doesn't know what she's talking about since all of u have gorgeous ungelled soaps!


Just send her to me. I don't gel and haven't for years. They go in the fridge or the freezer every time and not insulated and my customers love my soaps. I make **** good soap!


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## FloridaSoaper (Jun 6, 2011)

soapbuddy said:
			
		

> Just send her to me. I don't gel and haven't for years. They go in the fridge or the freezer every time and not insulated and my customers love my soaps. I make **** good soap!



Love it!


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## claryza (Jan 19, 2015)

Just a question how do you ensure a perfect ungelling when put in freezer? And also does ungelling soap process takes longer to cure? More than 4weeks time?


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## Susie (Jan 19, 2015)

Ungelled soap does not take longer to cure.  It is strictly a personal preference.  It is all soap.  

To make sure you do not gel, you pour and do whatever fancy stuff, then you put it in the freezer for 24 hours.  The refrigerator will not ensure lack of gel, it must be the freezer.


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## ngian (Jan 19, 2015)

http://cavemanchemistry.com/HsmgTemperature2009.pdf


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## OliveOil2 (Jan 19, 2015)

It depends on which mold I am using, my wood molds would never fit in the freezer, and they tend to encourage heat, so I gel. The silicone I don't usually gel, and those go in the freezer, or I freeze the mold and then put in the fridge as soon as it is poured. I've never gotten partial gel this way, but I can see where it could happen. My current freezer is just so small. I have never soaped with HDPE but wouldn't gel those.


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## lillybella (Jan 19, 2015)

What are the advantages - disadvantages in gelling?

What are the advantages - disadvantages in not-gelling?


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## shunt2011 (Jan 19, 2015)

lillybella said:


> What are the advantages - disadvantages in gelling?
> 
> What are the advantages - disadvantages in not-gelling?


 
It's strictly a personal preference.   
Many don't gel their soaps with milk as it tends to create a beige soap as opposed to a lighter one.  They also remain creamy looking but will take a bit longer for the saponification process to complete. However, you don't have to worry about overheating in most cases.

Gelling soaps make them saponify quicker, can make colors brighter and can be unmolded a bit sooner in a lot of cases. You can also get overheating and partial gel.   

They both require 4-6 weeks cure.   

I personally gel all my soaps.  I just add a bit of TD to my soap batter to make it a bit lighter as I do use some kind of milk in all my recipes


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## seven (Jan 19, 2015)

I'm with shunt, i gel all my soaps simply coz it's easier for me. no more space in the freezer, lol! i too, love milk soaps and use them in almost all my formulations, adding a bit of td helps a lot. 

no right or wrong regarding this. simply personal preference. no difference in qualities either.


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## lillybella (Jan 19, 2015)

Thank you shunt :razz:

Is a partial gel bad?


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## shunt2011 (Jan 19, 2015)

lillybella said:


> Thank you shunt :razz:
> 
> Is a partial gel bad?


 
Nope, just cosmetic.  It will generally lighten up over time and sometimes you can't even tell.   If you get partial gel you'll see a round section in the middle of your soap that is darker when you cut it.

Always be sure to zap test your soap to make sure it's not lye heavy.  If gelling wait 24 or so hours and if not gelling it may take longer.


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## lenarenee (Jan 19, 2015)

A gelled soap can be unmolded and  cut sooner than ungelled. I've had ungelled soap  need 2 to 3 days out of the freezer before I could unmold.

I prefer ungelled because the feel and look of the bar is creamier, I also think they lather quicker and perhaps a little better than gelled.

But they are definitely both soap! :


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## bhelen (Jan 19, 2015)

I'm confused about the ash thing. Some are saying they prefer to gel to prevent ash, and some are saying they prefer not to gel to prevent ash. I don't gel most of my soaps and have had variable ash results. Can't put my finger on what makes it worse.


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## IrishLass (Jan 19, 2015)

Whether 'tis nobler to gel or not to gel really just depends on your personal preference, for in the end it's all good soap anyway. 

I like to gel all my soaps, although I oftentimes pour off a small portion of some of my batches into individual, Milkyway--type molds just to observe how things such as colorants and scents behave in an un-gelled state.

The link that Ngian provided in post #15 shows that the main difference between gelled and ungelled soap (at least performance-wise) seems to be how they react in water. The experiment done in the link shows that gelled soaps retain their shape better and get less mushy in water when compared to soaps that did not gel, although the difference may be so small to some soapers that it might not matter much to them.

Off the top of my head, the reasons that I like to gel are these:

-I can unmold and cut and stamp my bars much earlier
-I get little to no ash formation on my bars
-My colors turn out much richer (i.e., much less pastel-looking)


IrishLass


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## IrishLass (Jan 19, 2015)

bhelen said:


> I'm confused about the ash thing. Some are saying they prefer to gel to prevent ash, and some are saying they prefer not to gel to prevent ash. I don't gel most of my soaps and have had variable ash results. Can't put my finger on what makes it worse.


 
I can't speak for everyone else, but my own un-gelled soaps are notorious for ashing-  sometimes, quite terribly so (very thick ash). But my gelled soaps very rarely ever get ash. If they do, it's just a very light sprinkling there and there that's easily removed with a damp washcloth.

Dr. Kevin Dunn has an excellent chapter on ash in his book Scientific Soapmaking. He says that there are at least 3 different causes of ash forming on soap:

1) Sodium Carbonate: As raw soap is left uncovered, any as-of-yet unreacted sodium hydroxide in the soap will rise to the top and deposit itself on the surface of the soap as the water evaporates. As the sodium hydroxide sits there on the surface, it reacts with the carbon dioxide in the air and forms sodium carbonate. 

2) Soap crystals that have separated themselves from the main body of soap.

3) Some other water-soluble material that gets deposited on the surface of the soap (most likely from an additive that was used in ones' soap formula)

If you have the book, the info can be found starting at page 249.

However, if you don't have his book, here is an article from Lovin Soap who writes about Kevin Dunn's lecture that he gave on the subject of ash at the 2011 HMSG conference:

http://www.lovinsoap.com/2011/05/secret-life-soap-kevin-dunn-2011-hsmg-conference/


And I also found a recent thread right here on the forum that helps to explain it:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46697


HTH!
IrishLass


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## bhelen (Jan 19, 2015)

Thank you so much Irish lass! I'm off to do some reading.


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## claryza (Jan 19, 2015)

So in ungel soaps takes longer time to unmold? But after 24 hours in freezer can take out?


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## lillybella (Jan 19, 2015)

This was a great discussion!
Thank you.

un-gel - goes in freezer
gel - wrap up & cover for 24 hours


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## lenarenee (Jan 19, 2015)

Yes, and ungelled soap takes longer to get firm enough to unmold and cut.

Yes, a freshly made soap can be put in the freezer for 24 hours to prevent gel, then removed. However, I would let it sit another 1 - 3 days....testing it to see if it's ready to unmold. Any soap I've put in the freezer, needs more than 2 days before unmolding. 

By the way, not every soap needs to be frozen to prevent gel. Most of mine
don't gel if I simply leave them uncovered sitting on a shelf. (I use 2 lb silicone molds) I check them often, and it they seem to be heating up...I either let them, or stick them in the freezer.


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## claryza (Feb 2, 2015)

I think it depends on your climate too. Mine is hot so it gels without being insulated. Even if I put them in non ac room


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## claryza (Feb 18, 2015)

I was wondering whether you need to cover up ungel soap in freezer? Few of my ungel soap that I put in freezer for 24hours. They sweat and then turn soft. Is this how ungelled soap works?


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## Ruthie (Feb 18, 2015)

I do both, though most of my soaps are ungelled.  The reason is overheating..  I have a lot of trouble with it because I use a lot of goat's milk.  If I wrap, I get a split on the top when it overheats.  If I leave unwrapped I get partial gel.  Can't seem to reach that happy medium.  So I just don't gel.  I do not use the freezer, but leave my soaps in the fridge for 48 hours.


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## Lion Of Judah (Feb 18, 2015)

claryza said:


> I was wondering whether you need to cover up ungel soap in freezer? Few of my ungel soap that I put in freezer for 24hours. They sweat and then turn soft. Is this how ungelled soap works?


that is normal , because you stop the heating up process by putting them in the freezer so along the way you me get a little frozen condensation on top and the water[liquid] content inside freezes so when you remove it from the freezer it thaws out [ defrost ] and may feel soft depending on your recipe . that is not a problem , it needs to cure and harden up . after a few hours out of the freezer just go ahead cut it in bars and set it in a nice dry warm place to cure for 4-6 weeks , check on them every couple of days or so to see how they are doing


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## Shaefercd (Feb 18, 2015)

shunt2011 said:


> I personally gel all my soaps.  I just add a bit of TD to my soap batter to make it a bit lighter as I do use some kind of milk in all my recipes



Shunt, what is TD? I make goats milk soaps and am curious.


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## newbie (Feb 18, 2015)

Titanium dioxide- used to whiten soap


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## claryza (Feb 18, 2015)

@lion of judah because few of my soaps after I get it out of the freezer it doesnt harden up enough to be cut that day


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## Shaefercd (Feb 18, 2015)

newbie said:


> Titanium dioxide- used to whiten soap



Thanks Newbie


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## Cactuslily (Mar 25, 2015)

Oliveoil2, you mentioned you wouldn't gel with HDPE molds. I'm curious what the reason behind this is? I ask, because I ordered a mold from Soaphutch which I should be getting soon. I've never used a mold with this material, but I'm pretty sure this mold won't fit in the freezer. I'm not even sure it will fit into my refrigerator. This was a great thread on to gel or not to gel. Thanks for everyone's input!


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## Chefmom (Mar 25, 2015)

Cactuslily said:


> Oliveoil2, you mentioned you wouldn't gel with HDPE molds. I'm curious what the reason behind this is? I ask, because I ordered a mold from Soaphutch which I should be getting soon. I've never used a mold with this material, but I'm pretty sure this mold won't fit in the freezer. I'm not even sure it will fit into my refrigerator. This was a great thread on to gel or not to gel. Thanks for everyone's input!



I'm also curious about the reasoning with not gelling the HDPE molds.  I use them and have gelled with them.  Not forcing with the oven or anything, but just by insulating inside a cardboard box and towel wrapping.  I have never had any issues with my HDPE molds, hot process or cold process.  Gel or freezer.

However, they are not "no liner needed"  I do not line them when I am using hot process, but I have read where people have issues with cold process sticking to HDPE molds, so I lined them from the start...just as insurance.  

I love mine..so easy to store taken apart...pop together tight, and clean up like a dream.


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## Cactuslily (Mar 25, 2015)

In the video I saw their use in, they weren't lined. According to the website they don't need lining. This concerns me because lining is not something I want to do :-(  I don't HP either. Do you need a rubber mallet as shown in soaphutch video to put together? At any rate, hopefully someone else will add to the gelling thing, as well as the lining of these molds. Thanks for replying!


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## kumudini (Mar 25, 2015)

Cactuslily said:


> In the video I saw their use in, they weren't lined. According to the website they don't need lining. This concerns me because lining is not something I want to do :-(  I don't HP either. Do you need a rubber mallet as shown in soaphutch video to put together? At any rate, hopefully someone else will add to the gelling thing, as well as the lining of these molds. Thanks for replying!


Cactuslily,
 I have those HDPE soap molds, the maker told me that they need a slip or sleeve, a parchment covering the long sides and bottom. It has been my experience that i absolutely need that. It's easier if I moisten the mold before putting the parchment in, again a tip from the maker.
They are easy to work with, but I do almost always see a thin layer of soda ash even after complete gel. One swipe with my finger under running water gets it off so not a big issue for me, it might be for those who sell their soaps. My molds certainly won't fit in the freezer, so right now bracing for a partial gel on my super lye Castile, which apparently doesn't do well with heat.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Mar 25, 2015)

Many people find that, while they are advertised as being "line free", it rarely works that way in practice   Many people use mineral oil or Vaseline or somesuch smeared on there to stop the soap sticking


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## shunt2011 (Mar 25, 2015)

Mineral Oil works great most times.  I have an HDPE mold and have no trouble with gelling in it.  I've used it for soap and salt bars.  Now I only make salt bars in it and it's great for that.  I do line the very bottom.


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## Cactuslily (Mar 25, 2015)

If I use mineral oil or such, is that in lieu of, or to aid adhesion of paper. My dexterity it quite compromised, so the easiest way, the best for me. As for needing a rubber mallet. Do you find it necessary? Does it "break in" so to speak after a few uses? Thanks for the heads up and tips! Always so appreciated!


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## kumudini (Mar 25, 2015)

Cactuslily, my mold is not from soap hutch, it's a simple log mold that is held together by three screws. But I went and watched the soap hutch video for the multi log/ slab mold where there are no screws to hold everything together. In that setup I would think the rubber mallet is needed to make sure the whole setup is secure. In case you were wondering where to buy the mallet, my husband uses them in his cricket sport to secure the bails over the stumps. He buys them at Walmart for about 3$ A piece.
The mineral oil would be in place of the parchment I believe as I never used it along with the parchment, there is just no need for both.


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## shunt2011 (Mar 26, 2015)

I have a kelsei mold and I have to use a rubber mallet to get it to lock in right.  Otherwise it leaks.  I line the bottom and use mineral oil on the sides and the dividers (it's a slab mold).


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## Chefmom (Mar 26, 2015)

Cactuslily said:


> In the video I saw their use in, they weren't lined. According to the website they don't need lining. This concerns me because lining is not something I want to do :-(  I don't HP either. Do you need a rubber mallet as shown in soaphutch video to put together? At any rate, hopefully someone else will add to the gelling thing, as well as the lining of these molds. Thanks for replying!



no...I don't need a rubber mallet.  Mine just slip together, the bottom slides into grooves on the sides and ends and then screws are put on the ends to hold them in place.  I've never had them leak with melt & pour or fluid cold process.  I line them with freezer paper for cold process and just use them as is for hot process.  The sides pop right off....they clean up with a quick swipe under water and they cut to make a size that I love.  I just bought these at Michaels with a coupon...their shelf price is a silly price, but with a 50% off coupon it is more reasonable.  


http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## Cactuslily (Mar 27, 2015)

Thank you all for your info! Will let you know how my soaphutch mold goes...when I get it. Ordered February 5th. Hoping it gives me multiple options, decreasing need for lots of other molds. I do love my silicone though. No muss no fuss. Anybody have downsides to silicone or HDPE. For that matter?


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