# If I were to sell...



## lenarenee (Mar 4, 2018)

I'm investigating the idea of selling as a hobbyist but think my soap is too boring to appeal to others. As much as I appreciate those who make intricate and fancy soaps, I rarely have the urge to do so myself.  My marketing friend asked me what I want to soap to "say".   Ugh - even my answer was boring. You know how artisan soaps are either marketed as all natural, or cures for skin troubles, or are really blinged out?  My philosophy is that quality soap should be affordable for everyone and NOT a luxury. 

I can also be very indecisive when selecting a fo and color pattern to go with it.  But that's a luxury of being a hobbyist - I can spend 2 days choosing!

What would happen if every soap had the same design, but different fo and colors? Or simply were solid single colors?  Too boring?  How do you make a soap interesting without fancy claims or designs?

What if I specialized in salt bars only?


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## BattleGnome (Mar 5, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> My philosophy is that quality soap should be affordable for everyone and NOT a luxury.



That sounds like a perfectly reasonable mission statement to me. It’s definitely something relatable and if you market right I feel you’ll find a ton of people who are looking for luxury for less or even just something affordable. Simple scents/colors can reflect that both as a “cut the frills and pass the savings on” note and for the simple beauty possible in a plain bar of soap. 

I think salt bars would be awesome but you’d have to consider the space needed for a proper cure and super plan ahead to not run out of inventory if you do a show/market.


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## dibbles (Mar 5, 2018)

Best of luck to you if you decide to pursue this. I think marketing as affordable, or simple, little luxuries is a perfect approach. You could specialize in salt bars, but like BattleGnome said, you'd have to plan ahead. Having some one colored and maybe some two colored simple swirled soaps in addition to salt bars is a good idea. You could have consistency that way.


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## KristaY (Mar 5, 2018)

I don't think there's anything wrong with single color soaps, I see vendors successfully sell them routinely. It's simple to fancy things up a bit with packaging. You can create a fun logo label, add raffia ribbon, etc. Basically things that are cost effective & simple to put together will draw the eye. Scent always lures in the crowd 1st, the look of the soap is secondary. Once people find out you make a great product, they'll come back.

I agree with Battle Gnome that you have a great mission statement so build on that philosophy!


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## cmzaha (Mar 5, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> I'm investigating the idea of selling as a hobbyist but think my soap is too boring to appeal to others. As much as I appreciate those who make intricate and fancy soaps, I rarely have the urge to do so myself.  My marketing friend asked me what I want to soap to "say".   Ugh - even my answer was boring. You know how artisan soaps are either marketed as all natural, or cures for skin troubles, or are really blinged out?  My philosophy is that quality soap should be affordable for everyone and NOT a luxury.
> 
> I can also be very indecisive when selecting a fo and color pattern to go with it.  But that's a luxury of being a hobbyist - I can spend 2 days choosing!
> 
> ...


Where are you going to sell them? I find Salt bars do not sell well enough to just make them to sell. You are picking a tough area to sell in as you probably already know. It is great to think it is doable to make a handmade soap that everyone can afford, but it is not very realistic. You want to make money and when you start breaking down the cost per bar after adding packaging, labeling, ingredients, and time, you will be suprised how much it cost you to make a bar of soap. That does not include the cost business license, insurance and getting the soap to market... Not trying to discourage, but it is tough in our area and you live in a very saturated area of soapmakers.
Just be prepared to commit a lot of time to selling and expense. In the end it is fun to go to markets and sell just hard work to build up your name and clientele.


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## shunt2011 (Mar 5, 2018)

I also wouldn’t recommend selling just salt bars.  Though I have quite a lot of salt bar lovers it’s taking a lot of time to even get people to try them.  They aren’t common.  They are still one of my favorites. You could get lucky, bit I’d offer another option.


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## Susie (Mar 5, 2018)

Where I used to live in Texas, the major soap maker that sold to the farmer's markets and craft fairs (also online) sold simple two color soaps.  The color combo told you what scent it was so that you could actually remember that you liked the blue soap with the green stripe, or the yellow soap with the orange stripe.  Simple, easy to remember.  Great marketing.  And we are not talking about a fancy swirl, they used slab molds and poured thin, so they simply mixed just enough of the accent color to make a stripe through each bar.


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## navigator9 (Mar 5, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> I'm investigating the idea of selling as a hobbyist but think my soap is too boring to appeal to others. As much as I appreciate those who make intricate and fancy soaps, I rarely have the urge to do so myself.  My marketing friend asked me what I want to soap to "say".   Ugh - even my answer was boring. You know how artisan soaps are either marketed as all natural, or cures for skin troubles, or are really blinged out?  My philosophy is that quality soap should be affordable for everyone and NOT a luxury.
> 
> I can also be very indecisive when selecting a fo and color pattern to go with it.  But that's a luxury of being a hobbyist - I can spend 2 days choosing!
> 
> ...



lenarenne, you and I have a similar philosophy on soapmaking. I didn't get into soapmaking because I wanted prettier soap. I wanted better soap. Swirling and brightly colored soaps were never my thing. And still, people really like my soap. I did have attractive packaging, people often commented on it. But I always stressed quality over appearance, and people didn't seem to mind. I do have some really nice individual molds for people who wanted soaps that look pretty. If I had to make soaps that I personally didn't like, it would have become work, and not a pleasure to make, and I would have been miserable.

I have to agree with shunt about the salt bars. I don't think you could make a go of it, with just those. And I also have to agree with Carolyn about selling. It's really tough these days. I know a lot of good soapers who have quit selling. That doesn't mean it couldn't work for you, but I would test the waters before jumping in with both feet. Best of luck!


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## lenarenee (Mar 5, 2018)

I appreciate all of the input fellow soap makers!  

I didn't make myself clear about my goals for selling: this will be very small scale word of mouth thing. No website. No regular market, just a holiday one. I don't expect to make an income. The money would simply help pay for the hobby, while having customers wanting to buy my soap is an ego thing...feels good to make a product that people want. 

What's changed my mind about selling is witnessing what happened to the 100 bars of soap I donated to a non profit fundraiser held at church. They sold out the first night - and the salt bars went first!   (No one even asked what salt bars were!) They charged $6 per bar.  They weren't fancy soaps - just drop swirls, mantra, and single colors....the kind I like to make, with no weird bumpy tops and embeds that make it difficult to hold in a shower.


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## dixiedragon (Mar 5, 2018)

While I love the look of the intricate tops some folks do, I actually don't care for the feel of them in my hand. I love your mission of "affordable luxury".


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## lenarenee (Mar 5, 2018)

How would you label, market it the idea of affordable luxury?  I don't really need to market it, but I do want my soap to have a meaning, or stand for something, if you will.  

I've already played around with a name:  Simple Basin Soaps.  (feel free to critique, won't hurt my feelings).  For a tag line I was thinking:  Simple, Quality, Classic.   I love the fact that soap making is an old skill from thousands of years ago (I also use animal fats - the first ever soaping fats), but I'm not sure "classic" speaks to that. Using the word historical just sounds old.


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## jcandleattic (Mar 5, 2018)

Hi lenarenee. If I remember right you are in my area of the world, and I can tell you, even though I make the intricate soaps with peaked tops, and embeds, and very colorful swirls, etc., and I do very well, and sell more of those types than my plain jane soaps, however, that is how I market my soaps, and who my target audience is, but there IS a market here for EVERY type of soap. 

IMO what you are describing - word of mouth, 1 holiday market, etc., is more to do with HOW you market your soaps than what they look like. At a holiday market, it will be about your display, more so than they type of soaps you offer. For word of mouth, it will be more in how you describe the quality of your soap, than describing how they look. 

I wish I could be of more help. I have a migraine right now and am at work, so my words are not really coming out how I want them too. LOL


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## artemis (Mar 5, 2018)

I think simple, clean, labeling will communicate the classic, but luxurious idea. Think of Martha Stewart, with her simple, monochrome color schemes and minimalist labels. I googled "simple elegant soap label" and found a lot of ideas that looked both "classic" and luxurious.


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## Primrose (Mar 6, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> How would you label, market it the idea of affordable luxury?  I don't really need to market it, but I do want my soap to have a meaning, or stand for something, if you will.
> 
> I've already played around with a name:  Simple Basin Soaps.  (feel free to critique, won't hurt my feelings).  For a tag line I was thinking:  Simple, Quality, Classic.   I love the fact that soap making is an old skill from thousands of years ago (I also use animal fats - the first ever soaping fats), but I'm not sure "classic" speaks to that. Using the word historical just sounds old.



Not historical - "heritage" !


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## Millie (Mar 6, 2018)

I love the look of plain soaps - that was what I was always drawn to before I started making my own. Now I do swirls just because it's fun. Simple classic soaps really are elegant.
Tell your customers a handmade bar of soap is a month of luxury for the price of a single cappuccino


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## penelopejane (Mar 7, 2018)

Personally, I think it is important, if you want to sell, to have some point of difference.

When I went to the US I saw handmade soap in every single souvenir shop and there would have been soap from three or four different suppliers in each one.
Not one of the hundreds of soap I saw filled my criteria for handmade soap so there is room for new suppliers.  For instance, some of them weren't labelled with their ingredients. 

If you have soaps that stand out and have something different to offer, I'd say go for it.


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## gloopygloop (Mar 7, 2018)

I too prefer plain soaps, maybe because I am a male I find most soaps to be too girly for my taste, a slight marble or swirl is fine but I think more people see great and eye catching packaging and pleasant aroma more than really decorative design. Just my thoughts.


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## Arimara (Mar 7, 2018)

Speaking as a customer, I look for plain looking soaps first. I don't mind a few swirls but I have to acknowledge that my skin HATES most coloring above all (it can handle some scents fine surprisingly). I appreciate  the time a lot of soapers take to create beautiful works of art with their soaps, be they M&P or CP/HP soaps but it's not a good buy if I can't use that soap (some colorings make me itch so bad). As others have said, a plain or minimalist approach would be a start. Your title "Simple Basin Soaps" brings to mind a farmstead, which might be a little risky depending on how people view a farm. Was that the direction you wanted to go?


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## lenarenee (Mar 7, 2018)

Arimara said:


> Your title "Simple Basin Soaps" brings to mind a farmstead, which might be a little risky depending on how people view a farm. Was that the direction you wanted to go?



No, farmstead wasn't where I wanted to go. Thanks for your opinion!  I've been having a hard time pinpointing my "brand" ( I use that word lightly).
My marketing friend asked me what I wanted my soap to say.  Pfffft!  My soap says nothing!  I don't buy into the "natural" thing. I use and love using animal fats.  Soap fascinates me because of its history. Aleppo, Greek, French soap makers pouring soap in to a floor that serves as a mold!  Pioneers stirring vats of soap on the prairie!  Soap is an overlooked, everyday common item that most people never think twice about,
YET soap saves lives and prevents a lot of illness!  We've forgotten that soap is a little miracle.

Oooh.  Can an animal fat soap company be named Miracle Soap Co.?  (FDA knocking at my door!)



penelopejane said:


> Personally, I think it is important, if you want to sell, to have some point of difference.
> 
> When I went to the US I saw handmade soap in every single souvenir shop and there would have been soap from three or four different suppliers in each one.
> Not one of the hundreds of soap I saw filled my criteria for handmade soap so there is room for new suppliers.  For instance, some of them weren't labelled with their ingredients.
> ...



Penelope, what are your criteria for handmade soap?   And what is an example of a soap that stands out?   

Hmmm, do I have a soap that stand out and offers something new?  No, but who does? It's all been done: vegan soap, highly artistic soaps, rustic soap, goat milk soaps.  All that's left is .....packaging?


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## penelopejane (Mar 7, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> Penelope, what are your criteria for handmade soap?   And what is an example of a soap that stands out?
> 
> Hmmm, do I have a soap that stand out and offers something new?  No, but who does? It's all been done: vegan soap, highly artistic soaps, rustic soap, goat milk soaps.  All that's left is .....packaging?



You did ask...

I want to know all the ingredients, because I am very fussy.
I don't want to use pomace on my skin so unless it specifies pure OO or EVOO or I know the maker or there is a website I can check I won't buy it.
I am allergic to palm even in soap. I'm allergic to most EOs.
I don't want EDTA or SLS or SLSA.
I only want natural colours.
I want vegetarian or vegan soap because I don't want BHT and I don't know where the animal fats used are from.
I don't want spots or poorly made soap that looks like it did not work.

See why I have to make my own soap? I am not alone.

It hasn't all been done.
If you live in a small area and are selling in that area then you are making local and they are buying local, small manufacture, handmade soap.
There is art and art.  Simple is an art. 
There has to be something about your soap that is different and that you are passionate about because any business, no matter how small, is tough.  You need to know that what you are doing is worthwhile and that there are customers out there who want what you want to produce.


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## Misschief (Mar 7, 2018)

I'm following this thread with great interest because I'm in the same position.


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## Arimara (Mar 7, 2018)

http://heritagesoapspa.com, https://www.heritagesoapsandcandles.com/our-story

Did you want a concept similar to this? On a side note, is there anyone in the Lancaster, PA area that knows this brand? One thing we all can agree on is that it is important to list your ingredients. You don't have to outright give your recipe away but MOST of us like to know what it is that we are getting.

Edit: I'm adding the second link because I like the little back story. Since you want to keep the tradition of using animal fats and in someway, it is linked to the heritage of soaping, I thought you can give this a read. It sounds like you want to .be the Traditionalist Soaper, inspired by soaps of old and to riding the vegetarian/vegan soap wagon. I can appreciate that but that's linked to my heritage in this country as well as the ones I will never fully know my ties to. Most of my ancestors did not let any part of their hunt go to waste. Even though that fat is used in petfood as a flavoring agent, I rather see lard and (usually beef) tallow in soap. It feels nice and it feels good to know there's another use for what many consider an animal by-product, for lack of better words. Honor Porky & Bessie, Lenarenee. (need to go to sleep XD)


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## lenarenee (Mar 8, 2018)

Arimara said:


> http://heritagesoapspa.com, https://www.heritagesoapsandcandles.com/our-story
> 
> Did you want a concept similar to this? On a side note, is there anyone in the Lancaster, PA area that knows this brand? One thing we all can agree on is that it is important to list your ingredients. You don't have to outright give your recipe away but MOST of us like to know what it is that we are getting.
> 
> Edit: I'm adding the second link because I like the little back story. Since you want to keep the tradition of using animal fats and in someway, it is linked to the heritage of soaping, I thought you can give this a read. It sounds like you want to .be the Traditionalist Soaper, inspired by soaps of old and to riding the vegetarian/vegan soap wagon. I can appreciate that but that's linked to my heritage in this country as well as the ones I will never fully know my ties to. Most of my ancestors did not let any part of their hunt go to waste. Even though that fat is used in petfood as a flavoring agent, I rather see lard and (usually beef) tallow in soap. It feels nice and it feels good to know there's another use for what many consider an animal by-product, for lack of better words. Honor Porky & Bessie, Lenarenee. (need to go to sleep XD)



Similar concept? That's too basic/rustic for me, even unprofessional (not that I wouldn't spend some serious money in their shop if I could read their labels!) 

My recipe is not special except that it's the one that I love.  

Can you image how would people react to the name Carnivore Soapworks! ?



penelopejane said:


> You did ask...
> 
> I want to know all the ingredients, because I am very fussy.
> I don't want to use pomace on my skin so unless it specifies pure OO or EVOO or I know the maker or there is a website I can check I won't buy it.
> ...



Thank you for that - all of it!  I agree with your standards but I chose to fudge on the BHT because I can get lard really, really cheap here. However, I long for Fannie and Flo's organic lard, but wow!  Cost plus shipping is shocking!  I could change to palm I guess because Smart and Final also sells huge cheap blocks of it. But I gave up palm for environmental reasons (this is not sustainable)

Lots to think about. Lots and lots.  Thanks Penelope.  I have yet a third "branding" idea I haven't mentioned because it's quite unique, although I don't know how to accomplish it.


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## cerelife (Mar 8, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> How would you label, market it the idea of affordable luxury?  I don't really need to market it, but I do want my soap to have a meaning, or stand for something, if you will.
> 
> I've already played around with a name:  Simple Basin Soaps.  (feel free to critique, won't hurt my feelings).  For a tag line I was thinking:  Simple, Quality, Classic.   I love the fact that soap making is an old skill from thousands of years ago (I also use animal fats - the first ever soaping fats), but I'm not sure "classic" speaks to that. Using the word historical just sounds old.


How about something like this:
Simple Basin Soaps
Classic Quality
~Celebrating a Forgotten Heritage~​I'm not sure what 'Simple Basin Soaps' says to me, but the first thing that comes to mind is that the soap is for use in a basin (sink). Have you checked to see if names like 'Vesuvius Soaps' are taken? Something like that may fit with your historical aspect. 
I think branding is important because your products are immediately recognizable as your own, and good branding sets the tone for your products as well. Think of Tiffany & Co. as an example - is their jewelry really any better than anyone else's? Not really, but people love the illusion of those blue boxes and bags!! I know this isn't the best analogy since you're going for simple and affordable, but you get my meaning...find your niche and run with it!


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 8, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> How would you label, market it the idea of *affordable luxury*?  I don't really need to market it, but I do want my soap to have a meaning, or stand for something, if you will.
> 
> I've already played around with a name:  Simple Basin Soaps.  (feel free to critique, won't hurt my feelings).  For a tag line I was thinking:  Simple, Quality, Classic.   I love the fact that soap making is an old skill from thousands of years ago (I also use animal fats - the first ever soaping fats), but I'm not sure "classic" speaks to that. Using the word historical just sounds old.


You just said it! At $6, Handmade soap *is* an affordable luxury! My labels read, _"Zany Handmade Soap. One of Life's Little Luxuries." _
*
Labels attract; Fragrance sells!* For example, I had a young person come to my table, browsed all the soaps, sniffed a few, and kept coming back because he couldn't decide between *Bora Bora* and *Tahitian Vanilla*. He finally went with (MMS) Tahitian Vanilla. Another person bought a bar of *Lavender Anise* (EO Blend), then contacted me later and bought the last 5 bars. *Plain Jane*, unscented soap the way they used to make it! *Castile Soap* with 85% olive oil! *Butter Up*! with Cocoa, Shea & Mango butters. 

For a name, I kept it simple. I thought about all the top commercial brands and most had 4-5 letters: Dove, Ivory, Dial, Coast, Zest, etc. and decided on "Zany" for its uniqueness. It also gave me poetic license to market lard soap as "*Miss Piggy's Secret*" and my lard & PKO hair and body wash LS as "*Hog Wash*". Other soaps people are attracted to are "Tea Tree", Goat Milk, Oats & Honey.


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## Arimara (Mar 8, 2018)

Carnivore Soaps is certainly eye catching. Pretty bold in my head. Are you going to be that one company that  stands by its soaps and says "This ain't your vegan soap" or something to that effect.

side note: I just finished a disappointing batch just a few minutes ago.


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## SudsanSoaps (Mar 8, 2018)

I like carnivore soaps too. “A step to the better life”. But then I  dislike the the vegan/vegetarian lifestyle and morals.


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## cmzaha (Mar 8, 2018)

People remember our 4 letter name also ACTZ, there is a small cosmetics umder but the Actz is what they mention. Many will also take the time to ask what it means, so the longer they stay at the booth the better chance of a sale


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## lenarenee (Mar 8, 2018)

Cerelife you're brilliant!!!  You just elevated the boring into something proud and respectable!!!!!  As of last night (laying in bed not sleeping) I gave up on Simple Basin but I'm rethinking.  And if I did follow through with that idea, I'd like to have a label or tag with a little paragraph about the life changing legacy of soap.  Even mention Global Handwashing day.  (I do like things to be meaningful, don't I?)

Interesting point about the short names for commercial soaps.  I'm not married to "Simple Basin". (I preferred Simply Soap, but there's one in Canada)

As for Carnivore soap  - I was kidding!  I'm in Southern  California, north of San Diego where no one brags about eating meat although most people still do.  (Now, if I moved to Texas...)

And Zany, I wish I had even half of your sense of humor!


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## jcandleattic (Mar 8, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> As for Carnivore soap


LOL Everytime I saw that wording on this thread, all I can think of is when we learned about dinosaurs in school being either carnivore or herbivore, so when I see anything mentioning "carnivore" I immediately think of a T-Rex. HAHAHA


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## amd (Mar 8, 2018)

For your name, if I could pitch an idea? What about Clean Basin Soaps? "Clean" could also convey the simplicity of your soaps. I can see a couple arguments for not using it as well (don't want people mistaking your soaps as household cleaning products). 

Your ideas are where I also started my business (and then I got sidetracked by "frou-frou" soapmaking) and what I am going to work to take my business back to (with the exception of my soap of the month club, because those people pay money for something special every month). There is a soapmaker from MN that comes around to my area periodically, all of their soaps are white with different scents, plastic wrapped (like a present) and a ribbon accent (different color for each fragrance). I'll take a picture if I remember when I get home. One thing I have discovered is that most of my customers will not remember the name of the soap, or even what the fragrance smelled like, but they will remember the color and design. (I have one customer that refers to my "camouflage" soap when she re-orders.) I think the different colored ribbon on the packaging is the customer point of reference. I don't think they have an ingredient label on theirs, but they do offer the information online and at their booth.

In the end, the most important thing is that you are making yourself happy. If you truly mean to make this a hobbyist endeavor, then that should be your focus. When you stop enjoying it, that's the time to be done.


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## HowieRoll (Mar 8, 2018)

Just dipping in to say that I love the names Simple Basin Soaps and Clean Basin Soaps, but they also immediately brought me to think of the decently large bath and body shop called... Basin.  

https://basin.com/

I wonder if that might cause some confusion or issues for you?  At any rate, I wish you the best of luck with your future endeavors and hope you keep us updated on your progress!


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## artemis (Mar 8, 2018)

To me, Clean Basin sounds like it would be used for cleaning the sink?


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## Susie (Mar 8, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> No, farmstead wasn't where I wanted to go. Thanks for your opinion!  I've been having a hard time pinpointing my "brand" ( I use that word lightly).
> My marketing friend asked me what I wanted my soap to say.  Pfffft!  My soap says nothing!  I don't buy into the "natural" thing. I use and love using animal fats.  Soap fascinates me because of its history. Aleppo, Greek, French soap makers pouring soap in to a floor that serves as a mold!  Pioneers stirring vats of soap on the prairie!  Soap is an overlooked, everyday common item that most people never think twice about,
> YET soap saves lives and prevents a lot of illness!  We've forgotten that soap is a little miracle.
> 
> Oooh.  Can an animal fat soap company be named Miracle Soap Co.?  (FDA knocking at my door!)



I would probably avoid the word Miracle...just would not want anything I made labelled that way. 

I love the "heritage" idea above!  I would definitely use it in the advertising end.  What about Heritage Soap Co.?

I don't really get Simple *Basin* Soap.  What are you trying to convey with that word?


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## lenarenee (Mar 8, 2018)

Basin is a word with fond memories.  In a New Hampshire state park, The Basin is a huge boulder shaped by eons of water flow that has carved out its oval shape. The water now whirls around a almost a circle before exiting. 

My grandmother used to call the bathroom sink a basin.

Again, I'm not afraid to change the name.


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## amd (Mar 8, 2018)

attached is the simple packaging I was talking about. They do have an ingredient label on the bottom as well.

I completely got the heritage reference to "basin" and I think if you are marketing for the type of clientele that would understand it, keeping it is a wonderful idea.


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## cerelife (Mar 8, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> Basin is a word with fond memories. In a New Hampshire state park, The Basin is a huge boulder shaped by eons of water flow that has carved out its oval shape. The water now whirls around a almost a circle before exiting.


I was intrigued, so I looked up The Basin...oh my!! Now I'm in love with the 'Simple Basin Soaps' name! In this context it's both unique and meaningful!!
Here's a video of The Basin so everyone can see how cool it is!

Maybe you could have an Ipad/Tablet on a stand playing this video (or something of your choosing) on a loop for customers to see the meaning of your company name?


lenarenee said:


> I gave up on Simple Basin but I'm rethinking. And if I did follow through with that idea, I'd like to have a label or tag with a little paragraph about the life changing legacy of soap. Even mention Global Handwashing day. (I do like things to be meaningful, don't I?)


Labels like that would be perfect! I don't know how you feel about soapboxes, but I use them because I don't like the idea of people handling the naked soap and putting it back down (I work in a hospital), and I don't like plastic at all!! When I first started using soapboxes, the back of the box just looked so bare, so I made a label that covers the back and is basically a replica of my business card. I think there would be plenty of room for you to write a paragraph on them! I'm doing a festival this weekend, so I'll take pics of my soapboxes to give you an idea of what I mean


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## lenarenee (Mar 8, 2018)

I'm honored - you understand cerelife.

The video is nice (and thanks for digging it up) but as you can imagine it doesn't do it justice.  We visited Franconia Notch park many times and it never got dull. Factor in the scent of pine forests, moss, churning waters and babbling brooks and busy birds.....

How do you fit that on a label?  ....*sigh*.....don't even try.

I've actually been considering soap boxes.


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## SunRiseArts (Mar 9, 2018)

Too much competition here....Is it just me?  Anyone else in Texas?


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 9, 2018)

Susie said:


> What about Heritage Soap Co.?


Sadly, it's taken. But I did think of 

Yankee Heritage Soap Factory 
_Soaps made the old fashioned way, with love

Also
_
CARLS GOOD SOAP
_Keeping it clean in Carlsbad CA_​


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## Saffron (Mar 9, 2018)

How about Basin Heritage Soap Company?

Or Basin Heritage Soap Shop?


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## Susie (Mar 9, 2018)

SunRiseArts said:


> Too much competition here....Is it just me?  Anyone else in Texas?



I'm in Texas, but I just moved to the DFW area last summer.  Have not had time to go look at any markets, much less scout out competition.  And now we are house hunting (again), so what leisure time I had will be spent on that.


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## lenarenee (Mar 11, 2018)

Over the weekend I've eliminated one idea I was considering for my soap "brand".  I didn't mention it here; I was going with Bee Native; would include a label or attached tag with a pic and note on one of the native bee species we have in San Diego.  However, it seems I would have to get permission to use pics from article and books (that fact that native bees even exists is not well know so not a lot of info on them).  Then there's the work of getting them uploaded and printed.  Now, our friend the native bee expert would have been happy to provide all of this, but he's busy with his post grad studies and young child.

So I'm going with a theme of soap education; will find a way to include  Clean the World and/or Global Handwashing. And remind people that as humble as soap is - it's vital.

Now I just need to pick a name. My friend Tif likes  Simple Basin, and also suggested Simply Sincere Soaps  (I would use Soapworks, because I love the word, but everybody uses it!)


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## dibbles (Mar 12, 2018)

You just used the descriptor Humble. I like that! Humble Basin Soapworks. Works for me.


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## lenarenee (Mar 12, 2018)

dibbles said:


> You just used the descriptor Humble. I like that! Humble Basin Soapworks. Works for me.



Oooh.    Humble Origins Soap Co?   (humble is not an impressive description to many people, is it)

I've also thought of a name only a soap maker could love:  Perfect Trace Soap Co!  I love it - but people would be confused by it.


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 12, 2018)

I think I need a Thumb Down Emoticon.


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## lenarenee (Mar 12, 2018)

Zany_in_CO said:


> I think I need a Thumb Down Emoticon.


What would you thumb down?


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## cerelife (Mar 12, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> I've also thought of a name only a soap maker could love: Perfect Trace Soap Co! I love it - but people would be confused by it.


But since you would be on hand to explain it, it's a talking point. What matters it that YOU love it! I chose the name of my business (Minou Bleu) because it popped into my head one day while making soap and it felt like the perfect fit. It never even crossed my mind that people wouldn't 'get' it. I loved it and it still makes me ridiculously happy to see it on my products/banners, business cards, etc.
'Minou Bleu' has absolutely nothing to do with soap and half the time people can't even pronounce it. But that hasn't hurt my business - if anything it's helped since people often ask what it means - starting a conversation that in turn leads to my products/why I make them/why I'm passionate about them. BTW, it's pronounced 'ME-new Blue' and this is where it came from:
http://www.minoubleu.com/Minou.html
If YOU love your name and your products, that enthusiasm is contagious! Then you can hit them with with your knowledge and the history of soap!! I thought of you this weekend at the festival I was attending while explaining Castile soap. I had some gorgeous 2 year old bars available, but you've gotta tell people they are going to feel _very_ different than other soaps, and in all honesty, it's something of an acquired taste. But people loved hearing the history of soap, and I actually sold out of them!


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## cmzaha (Mar 12, 2018)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Here ya go



Lenarenne, ^^^ these are for Zany not for anything you posted


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## dibbles (Mar 12, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> Oooh.    Humble Origins Soap Co?   (humble is not an impressive description to many people, is it)
> 
> I've also thought of a name only a soap maker could love:  Perfect Trace Soap Co!  I love it - but people would be confused by it.



Humble can go either way, I think. In the context of a hand made item, I would think of simple, comforting, nothing superficial. I can see where you might not want to take the chance on misinterpretation of your meaning though. Naming a business is as hard as naming a child! How about Humble Luxury? I love your Perfect Trace idea - and like cerelife said - it might be a great talking point. Although you will have to be adept at the short explanation - you don't want customers' eyes glazing over except in ecstasy with the beauty and fragrance


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 13, 2018)

*Carolyn*: Thanks! But those guys look mean, doncha think??? I'm thinking more of a kinder, gentler smiley -- just a thumb up or thumb down so everyone could vote as different names come up.
*Karen: *Sorry, I'd vote thumb down for the names you mentioned in #46 post.


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## cmzaha (Mar 13, 2018)

Zany_in_CO said:


> *Carolyn*: Thanks! But those guys look mean, doncha think??? I'm thinking more of a kinder, gentler smiley -- just a thumb up or thumb down so everyone could votes as different names come up.
> *Karen: *Sorry, I'd vote thumb down for the names you mentioned in #46 post.


The second one was supposed to be a funny thumbs down. I did not think they were mean looking, well maybe the ninja 
Maybe these are better


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## penelopejane (Mar 13, 2018)

Lenarenee
I don’t know why you would listen to me but for what it is worth I am sorry but I don’t like “basin soaps” or “basin heritage soaps” or basin anything. For someone who doesn’t know that basin is a place it just seems weird because of a wash basin and soap.

I like the humble soap company. To me that means simple, honest soap. Not pretending to be anything it is not.

Good luck. It is an incredibly important decision. Good luck.


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## BattleGnome (Mar 13, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> I was going with Bee Native; would include a label or attached tag with a pic and note on one of the native bee species we have in San Diego.



If my vote matters...

The more I think about this the more I love it. It’s unique, it’s local, and if I remember right your kid was the one with the bee interest which would give another conversation topic on how you even learned about the local bees. The downside would be that you’d be expected to specialize in honey soaps (which you haven’t mentioned in this thread) and it doesn’t exactly match up with the affordable luxury idea talked about earlier in the thread. 

Perfect Trace would be my second choice as a simple, easy to remember name. Simple Trace could be a variation to make a more literal connection if you’re still looking for the affordable luxury idea


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## MySoapyHeart (Mar 13, 2018)

So many great suggestions! All that keeps popping in my head is*:
*
*"By The Sink ~ A  Soap Company that Cares about The Environment & Our Heritage"*​
Soaps will sit next to or on the sink, that is why I just thought it`d suit well. 
You don`t happen to live by the sea? It could also read*:
*
*"By The Seank ~ The Soap Company that Cares about The Environment & Our Heritage"
*​"By The Seank", I think of a play on words_, as sea_ and _si_nk both sounds the same in the beginning.

Or what about (last one, I promise!)

*~ Down The Drain ~* 
*The Soap Company That Guards the Knowledge from The Past, into The Present Future. *​ 
As it shows that everything from the past will affect the future, no matter if it is something washed down the drain, or knowledge about  more environmentally friendly soap passed on to future generations.

Oh dear, listen to my ramblings, never mind me I am of no use today!! (Those that work in the advertizing, how do they do it? )


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## lenarenee (Mar 13, 2018)

dibbles said:


> Humble can go either way, I think. In the context of a hand made item, I would think of simple, comforting, nothing superficial. I can see where you might not want to take the chance on misinterpretation of your meaning though. Naming a business is as hard as naming a child! How about Humble Luxury? I love your Perfect Trace idea - and like cerelife said - it might be a great talking point. Although you will have to be adept at the short explanation - you don't want customers' eyes glazing over except in ecstasy with the beauty and fragrance



*innocently asking*......why would anyone's eye glaze over when talking soap??


cmzaha said:


> Lenarenne, ^^^ these are for Zany not for anything you posted



Yes I know - no worries!!   I liked both of them - one was kind of a mad thumbs down and one was more sad.

My soapy heart: I actually live in the Village by the Sea!!  However, that could change in as little as a year.

My friends have provided more ideas and I've narrowed it down to these:   (will be using the words Soap or Soap company, possibly
soapworks at the end)

Perfect Trace
Just Add Water
Wash Basin
Simple Basin -     classic quality, celebrating a forgotten heritage
Rain Shadow
Simply Sincere or Sincere and Simple Soaps
Candid Soaps

Please feel free to critique!!  It won't hurt my feelings!



BattleGnome said:


> If my vote matters...
> 
> The more I think about this the more I love it. It’s unique, it’s local, and if I remember right your kid was the one with the bee interest which would give another conversation topic on how you even learned about the local bees. The downside would be that you’d be expected to specialize in honey soaps (which you haven’t mentioned in this thread) and it doesn’t exactly match up with the affordable luxury idea talked about earlier in the thread.
> 
> Perfect Trace would be my second choice as a simple, easy to remember name. Simple Trace could be a variation to make a more literal connection if you’re still looking for the affordable luxury idea



Yes, yours and everyone's vote matters!.

 Battle Gnome you're absolutely right and I still love the idea....a lot....but with limited computer skills I'm intimidated by the amount of work it would take to pull it off (and our little one still has a passion for the native bees!)  I've consoled myself with the knowledge that I can make a couple of Bee Native limited edition soaps.

Oh, and native bees don't product honey! (At least not the ones in San Diego area)  Most are solitary bees or live in very small groups at best. Most are capable of stinging, but rarely do and cause very little irritation from it!  No one has to be afraid of holding a native bee on their hand!

I'm also liking Perfect Trace more and more. Simple Basin or Wash Basin is 2nd. But those are plain names. Perfect Trace is unique - and apt to make people are questions.



penelopejane said:


> Lenarenee
> I don’t know why you would listen to me but for what it is worth I am sorry but I don’t like “basin soaps” or “basin heritage soaps” or basin anything. For someone who doesn’t know that basin is a place it just seems weird because of a wash basin and soap.
> 
> I like the humble soap company. To me that means simple, honest soap. Not pretending to be anything it is not.
> ...



Sorry I didn't notice this at fist.  There's no need to apologize - I want to hear everyone's opinions because you all will notice or think of things that I don't.   Basin is a special place for me, also an old fashioned word for sink which has fond memories - but as you've pointed out - it won't mean anything to other people. So "Simple Basin" could sound like "Plain Boring Soap Co." to them - and who can respect a bar of Plain and Boring Soap??.

(Ok...actually I love plain and boring soap. But that's because as a soap maker I can detect the nuances that non-makers don't; hardness, waxiness, opaqueness, gelled, non gelled, etc)


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## penelopejane (Mar 13, 2018)

I like just add water. With handmade soap below but not actually in the name.

I also like rain shadow.

Ask some people who know nothing about soap about the name perfect trace. I personally, don’t like it for a company name for soap making. I feel, if you are not going with a personal name you need something that describes your product or ethos to the public.

IMO good names already taken are:
Simply soap
Raw lather
Bath and bubbles
Handmade in Florida

But it is your baby and you have to go with what resonates with you. 
You cannot spend “too long” on choosing a company name. It’s important and you will be stuck with it!


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## Misschief (Mar 13, 2018)

MySoapyHeart said:


> (Those that work in the advertizing, how do they do it? )



The more you do it, the better you get at it, just like anything else. I'm not in the advertising biz but, as a print shop employee, we work with plenty who are and their creativity always amazes me. My son is a graphic designer and HE amazes me. Now, if only I could get him to slow down long enough to design my logo.


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## dibbles (Mar 13, 2018)

Another word I have always liked in relation to bath and body products is Bliss. Blissful Basin - not to confuse the issue more. I guess I like the image/word use of Basin.

Names that are already taken that I love are Soap Jam and The Bar Room. Great Cakes is pretty clever too.


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## SunRiseArts (Mar 13, 2018)

Susie said:


> I'm in Texas, but I just moved to the DFW area last summer.  Have not had time to go look at any markets, much less scout out competition.  And now we are house hunting (again), so what leisure time I had will be spent on that.



Let me know your experience!  I too live in DFW, although I am in the process of moving this summer to the east area. 

I have been in the stores downtown, and some bazaars, and there are always several soap makers.

I am yet to go to the Canton flea market, but it seems to me there will probably be many there.


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## Steve85569 (Mar 13, 2018)

I finally settle on boxes with sniffer holes punched in them.
Logo on one side and ingredients on the other.
Simple and effective. I don't sell so I don't seal the top flaps of the boxes. That way  friends can just open them up and see them.

I wouldn't want to send someone home with an ugly bar of soap.


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## earlene (Mar 14, 2018)

I really favor Rain Shadow. It speaks to me in a very pleasant way. I like the mood it sets. I would linger at Rain Shadows door and likely enter.


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## cerelife (Mar 14, 2018)

penelopejane said:


> But it is your baby and you have to go with what resonates with you.


Yes, this!! Perfectly said


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## jules92207 (Mar 14, 2018)

I use to call my soaps Simple Soaps and even had a stamp I use to mark all my soaps with, then I saw that Simply Soap company too and had to start from scratch. I also only sell to friends and family as a hobbyist so I struggled with a name till my friend came by and bought some bars off the tailgate of my truck - that’s how I came to Tailgate Soaps. Picking a name is so special so don’t feel rushed, everyone here has given some awesome suggestions [emoji4]


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## lenarenee (Mar 14, 2018)

I think you all have it right; I have to choose the name that's right for me and not think about what name is going to please the most people. I'm going to take a few days to not think about this, then return and see how things sound after sitting on them for a while.


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## Primrose (Mar 14, 2018)

Basin Bliss?
Bath and Basin Bliss?


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## lenarenee (Apr 10, 2018)

Alright I'm back to working on this -had a 2 week spring break and got distracted.

A friend of mine (in marketing) suggested I use black packaging as it signals more upscale product, and I could raise the price of soap to go along with it.  Problem is, I really hate black. I won't even wear black socks or shoes. (except for funerals). It does solve the problem of choosing a label color that matches every color of the soap bars however.

 I also believe that upscale is almost always a farce, and I also find it pretentious. I prefer to be genuine; I don't dress to impress, and I don't want my soap to dress to impress. It should be approachable. I also want to convey "quality".

Which brings me back to the name.  I think everybody should have quality soap; it should not be a "treat". While this idea is  similar to "affordable luxury" it's still off the mark and I can't figure out why.  What name portrays special and common at the same time?

I've added: savor, delight, comfort, lavish to possible words to include.


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## BattleGnome (Apr 10, 2018)

Savor Soaps - with the right frilly font it could look slightly French, which people associate with upscale beauty products. You wouldn’t have to state anything in your marketing if you didn’t want to.

Delightful Comforts?
Lavish Delights?


One way you might decide on a name is by picking your packaging first. Having something tangible might give you a different inspiration. Like a still life exercise, the painter interprets the bowl of fruit in front of them instead of coming up with something from thin air.


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## NsMar42111 (Apr 10, 2018)

Just a quick head poke in...but Seank I read as Skank the first time through...lol


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## lenarenee (Apr 10, 2018)

BattleGnome said:


> Savor Soaps - with the right frilly font it could look slightly French, which people associate with upscale beauty products. You wouldn’t have to state anything in your marketing if you didn’t want to.
> 
> Delightful Comforts?
> Lavish Delights?
> ...



Good idea to try picking the packaging first! Even just getting and idea for it will help narrow names down.  And I love Lavish Delights!

Update:  am I crazy for this:  Flip Over Soaps,  enthusiastically made by your local soap geek


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## BattleGnome (Apr 11, 2018)

That would be awesome, especially if you can figure out how to design a logo that can be read upside down.


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 11, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> And I love Lavish Delights!


Me too!


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## lenarenee (Apr 11, 2018)

BattleGnome said:


> That would be awesome, especially if you can figure out how to design a logo that can be read upside down.



Great idea!!  AND....it will bring new life to my boringly square soap bars. I like some texture on top, but with a lard recipe it takes so long for the soap to set up with most fo's, so I get flat top soaps. (I just can't spend 150 bucks on the tall and skinny molds I want.) Hmm...may have to get a mat or some simple way to include some kind of decoration on the bottom.


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## cerelife (Apr 11, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> A friend of mine (in marketing) suggested I use black packaging as it signals more upscale product, and I could raise the price of soap to go along with it. Problem is, I really hate black. I won't even wear black socks or shoes. (except for funerals). It does solve the problem of choosing a label color that matches every color of the soap bars however.
> 
> I also believe that upscale is almost always a farce, and I also find it pretentious. I prefer to be genuine; I don't dress to impress, and I don't want my soap to dress to impress. It should be approachable. I also want to convey "quality".
> 
> Which brings me back to the name. I think everybody should have quality soap; it should not be a "treat". While this idea is similar to "affordable luxury" it's still off the mark and I can't figure out why. What name portrays special and common at the same time?


My packaging is part of my branding, so I never change colors to match the soap.
And while my packaging is clean and simple, my booth tends to be anything but!! I had a picture in my mind of a Baroque French Salon and adapted that idea into my table displays and tent. So, yep...it's quite pretentious. I mean, for heaven's sake, I've got a mini chandelier hanging in my tent, LOL!!
BUT...it gets peoples' attention, and is too goofy/unusual to be unapproachable!! And once they stop in, they're surprised by how affordable my products actually are (my soap is $5/bar), and they buy; tell their friends; etc. It works well for me 
To me ALL quality soap is a treat! And I want my customers to feel like royalty when buying my soap, no matter how affordable, including walking away with my custom shopping bag! I order these in a couple of sizes and stamp them with my logo and brand name myself!
https://www.nashvillewraps.com/bags/white-shopping-bags/p-843
Just because your products are affordable doesn't mean that you can't have fun with the luxury aspect!


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## cmzaha (Apr 11, 2018)

Naming is hard. Ours is so simple, just initials, but people will take the time to ask what it means, which means they are at my booth longer which gives me more possibility of selling to them. I am kinda of laughing that your friend mentioned black, the main part of my label is black and someone once told me my label was dark and ugly. It was not a customer that told me that...

Boxes are nice but are just to expensive for me, and I would not make money selling bars for $5. Also if doing outdoor markets the boxes get pretty beat up, even shrink wrap has to be replaced periodically. Lenarenee do cost everything out when setting a price, which is typically $7 per bar in our area.


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## lenarenee (Apr 11, 2018)

Cerelife, why did you choose boxes over shrink wrap?  How do the soaps fare over time; does the scent fade much?



cmzaha said:


> Boxes just add to much expensive for me, and I would not make money selling bars for $5. Lenarenee do cost everything out when setting a price, which is typically $7 per bar in our area.



Excellent point cmzaha, I did make a general cost check and found (including paying myself 20 bucks and hour) it costs about 2.50 to make a bar. Lye and fragrance oil are the biggest costs.  Having "fancy" labels printed at a printer is now a pipe dream.  Boxes interest me for those soaps who are on the edge of cure time. (3-4 weeks). But I like to be able to see the whole soap.


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## cmzaha (Apr 11, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> Excellent point cmzaha, I did make a general cost check and found (including paying myself 20 bucks and hour) it costs about 2.50 to make a bar. Lye and fragrance oil are the biggest costs.  Having "fancy" labels printed at a printer is now a pipe dream.  Boxes interest me for those soaps who are on the edge of cure time. (3-4 weeks). But I like to be able to see the whole soap.


Yeah, you did your homework....    
   My soaps cost me $2.50- 3.00 to make and my camel milk soap considerably higher. Those I do not make much on. Of course for me, I have to figure in gas, booth cost and website cost. Our site is not a freebie one. We tried boxes when we first started and for the amount of soaps I make I would go broke. I take a selection of 40 -50 soaps to my markets x 14 bars per batch  makes for a lot of boxes. I remember a few years ago we changed our label and many customers noticed and commented that we had changed name (dba) and label, so customers do notice changes


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## cerelife (Apr 19, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> Cerelife, why did you choose boxes over shrink wrap? How do the soaps fare over time; does the scent fade much?


Sorry for the delay! We're getting our garden planted, so I've had very little free time lately!!
Anyway, my choice to use boxes vs shrink wrap is purely aesthetic. I despise the look and feel of hard plastic shrink wrap on anything and tend to avoid soaps in shrink wrap. And I mean no offense to you cmzaha...your soaps are so wonderful that I would overcome my plastic aversion to buy them 
As for cost, the average in my area is pretty well set at $5/bar for handmade soap, so I'm kind of stuck with that even though my cost is similar at about $2 to $2.50 a bar. My boxes currently cost me 20 cents each and I make my own labels, so I'm not too unhappy with things. I feel like the extra 20 cents (not counting the cost of labels since you would have to make them anyway) is worth it. But of course, that's just me!
http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/products/soap-box-rectangle-window-white-color.aspx
Per your other questions:
My soaps fare very well and I haven't noticed any scent loss. If anything, the scent bleeds into the boxes so they actually smell stronger. However, I do store my cured boxed soaps in plastic shoeboxes like these for each scent. 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002BDTETW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
I transport them in these boxes for fairs and shows as well, so it really cuts down on the wear and tear on the soap boxes, but it does take up a good bit of room if that's an issue for you.


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## lenarenee (Apr 20, 2018)

I have a few more name ideas. Is it just me that can love a name one week - and then do a 180 on it a week later??  So frustrating.

Flip Over Handmade Soap Co.

Delightly Soap Co.  

Selador Soap Co.  (yup, that's a made up word. I'm getting desperate

White Wagon Soap Co.  (a weird one I know - but it's dependent on a selling style that I probably don't have the nerve to put into action....and it involves a white wagon)


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## penelopejane (Apr 20, 2018)

The one I like out of those is White Wagon Soap Co
I still like Humble Soap Co and Rainshadow.


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## BattleGnome (Apr 20, 2018)

I like Flip Over and White Wagon. Of the names you have, which one would you buy soap from?


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## lenarenee (Apr 20, 2018)

BattleGnome said:


> I like Flip Over and White Wagon. Of the names you have, which one would you buy soap from?



Now that question is a useful tool!  Thank you!


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## cerelife (Apr 24, 2018)

Ok, so this just popped into my head:
Cauldron Falls Soap Co.
I guess I'm still thinking about 'The Basin' and how much it reminded me of a witches' cauldron?

And after all, don't we all have a cauldron (soap pot) where we perform a version of alchemy (transformation of matter - alkaline with fatty acids to create a soap molecule)?


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 25, 2018)

This just popped into my head straight from your words:
Soap Pot Alchemy​


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## lenarenee (May 11, 2018)

I think I've finally decided on a name - or most of it.  Flip Over Soap.   Now the question is should I add: Company, Soapery, Soapworks, Factory....whatever to that title?   None of those particularly appeal to me because they aren't unique but I would like to have something special to end the name with.


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## Zany_in_CO (May 11, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> I would like to have something special to end the name with.


How's about an exclamation point? LOL I really like FLIP OVER SOAP! I wouldn't add a thing.


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## HowieRoll (May 11, 2018)

Do you think you might end up selling more than just soap (such a lotions, bath bombs, etc.)?

I ask because a while ago I'd researched tips on naming a company, and found a suggestion not to pigeon-hole oneself by naming it X Soap Company if there would be a broad product line that includes other things.  It makes sense to me, but I also don't think it's the end of the world to have a "Soap Company" that also sells, say, lotion.  However, it stuck in my mind so thought I'd mention it.  

(and sorry, that's not helpful at all to your recent question!  )


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## BattleGnome (May 11, 2018)

I like “Co” at the end of names, but that my personal preference. Maybe go with the legal, are you going to register as a LLC or something different? It would let those who are looking know that you are doing things correctly


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## cmzaha (May 11, 2018)

You do not have to put LLC or Inc after your business if you decide to incorporate, which I would not do. Anyone that thinks there is protection with incorporation you will find there is not. I would never never incorporate again. Do not ask how I know....


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## lenarenee (May 11, 2018)

"You do not have to put LLC or Inc after your business if you decide to incorporate, which I would not do. Anyone that thinks there is protection with incorporation you will find there is not. I would never never incorporate again. Do not ask how I know.... "

      Good, because I don't want to officially become a business (at least at this time, I have more college credits to work on this year).  But sorry you know first hand why Inc-ing wasn't helpful.

"Do you think you might end up selling more than just soap (such a lotions, bath bombs, etc.)?"

      Possibly, but soap is the definite.  I don't mind  being defined as a soap company that later adds other products.

"How's about an exclamation point? LOL I really like FLIP OVER SOAP! I wouldn't add a thing. "

      Zany, I like that!  My friend the hobby graphic designer is working on it right now!


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