# What is going on here?



## lovefish (Oct 12, 2012)

For some reason I don't seem to have much luck with making soap, there always seems to be a new problem! Today's problem is finding some soaps that I made back in May and seeing something that looks like 'white mould' growing on them? They aren't sweaty and feel fairly normal,  but has anyone else ever experienced this before??!!!! The 'mould' is very shallow and can be scraped off and as you can see it's not all over the soap (where it was cut from a bar is fine.) Any help appreciated!   
Lisa


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## dirrdee (Oct 12, 2012)

that looks like lye to me, does it zap?


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## lovefish (Oct 12, 2012)

Sorry what do you mean by 'zap'? (sorry!) Would there still be lye in a melt and pour base?


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## new12soap (Oct 12, 2012)

I have read somewhere (I am sorry, I don't recall where) about some of the MP bases getting a "bloom'" due to a manufacturing problem. I don't really know what that means or if that is what you have, but it does look like mold to me.

Is your wrapping air tight? I think it needs to me for MP


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## dirrdee (Oct 12, 2012)

oh duh, didnt even realize it was M&P...I dont know if M&P can have excess lye, not sure I am seeing it correctly from the pic but it reminds me of lye crystals.  I just cant see how that would be possible.  Maybe someone with more knowledge will chime in with ideas.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Oct 13, 2012)

Well, it's definitely not lye...
What fragrances/colorants/additives did you use? It could be some form of oxidation or crystallization from you fragrance oil, but it's probably due from not having an airtight wrapping.


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## Flameflightcc (Oct 13, 2012)

It does look like a bloom...Was there some "butters" in the base?


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## blowie (Oct 13, 2012)

Melt and Pour doesnt contain Lye as far as I know..


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## lovefish (Oct 15, 2012)

Hi there,

There were no butters added to the base. The base used was Stephenson's Melt & Pour Soap Base (Crystal) Eco Palm Free, Clear. It one of the more 'natural' bases and the supplier said that it should be treated like an Organic M & P base which means you should make sure you heat up to 70 degrees (158 fahrenheit) or else you can experience 'blooming'. But the base has been treated this way when I make the soap.

The green soap additions are: Euycalyptus EO, Teatree EO, Green Clay
The Orange soap additions are: Grapefruit, Litsea Cubeba and Red Clay

There were a variety of other soaps stored along with these soaps with different EO's and they all have this 'white mould' growing on them.

But I have experienced other problems (as well as this one) with other soaps. I am attaching a photo of what seems to  happen to the soaps once they have been used in the bathroom after a few days (additions are: Lemon EO, Litsea Cubeba, Clay and Sea Kelp). I tried to get answers on the forum before but seems that nobody else  has experienced it. I just wondered if these problems were related or are they two separate problems. I have asked my supplier about both problems and he doesn't know for sure. His suggestion of the 'white mould' is that the soaps have sweated in the past. The 'mould' can actually be scraped off with a knife, but I really want to know why it happened in the first place.

I hope I'm not confusing the matter by putting up another photo of a different problem, but could they some how be related?!!

Many thanks, 

Lisa


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## AlchemyandAshes (Oct 15, 2012)

Just some ideas/questions:
After you pour your M&P, do you spray with Alcohol? 
And if so, what kind of alcohol are you using? (70%/91% Rubbing/Isopropyl etc)
Are these spots where it touches your mold or a surface that has been sprayed with Alcohol?
What kind of molds are you using? 
How old is your base? 
Are your fragrance oils/colorants made for M&P?

As for the soap that has been in the shower, I think that just may be from the lather drying on the surface in a humid environment. Is it tacky/sticky or dry?

And my last thought...is this happening to all of your soaps, or just a few? It's kind of "Process of Elimination" when trying to find the cause of the problem, but if it were all your soaps, I would look into the base your using and the supplier you are getting it from.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Oct 15, 2012)

One more!   :think:  
 I forgot to ask:
How are you heating your base? Microwave/crockpot/double boiler?


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## lovefish (Oct 15, 2012)

Hi there,

I use a double boiler (bain marie)  to melt the base and have been advised to heat to 70 degrees (158 fahrenheit) as it's a more 'natural' base and can bloom if not treated correctly (so the supplier said to me).


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## new12soap (Oct 15, 2012)

blowie said:
			
		

> Melt and Pour doesnt contain Lye as far as I know..



Well, yes and no. Melt and pour, like any other soap, is made with lye. But again, as with any properly made soap, no active lye should remain in the finished product, just soap.


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## lovefish (Oct 16, 2012)

Hi there, I didn't see all your other questions before sorry.......so here are the answers.....

*After you pour your M&P, do you spray with Alcohol? 
And if so, what kind of alcohol are you using? (70%/91% Rubbing/Isopropyl etc)
Are these spots where it touches your mold or a surface that has been sprayed with Alcohol?*

_Yes, I spray with Alcohol. It's 90% Ethanol and it hasn't been sprayed on all the areas, just the top._

*What kind of molds are you using? *

_It is a home made mold. It is a wooden loaf lined with plastic, which is taped at the corners to prevent leakages._

*How old is your base? *

_I have only had the base a few months. I have asked the supplier about this had he says it's not old. He has been trying to help me find out what's wrong. He made a sample using one of my recipes (Litsea Cubeba, Lemon EO, Yellow Clay & Sea Kelp) and he didn't have the same problem, his stayed 'normal' after being used. He has even contacted the manufacturer for me,  who replied that I could be putting too many things in the base, but the same thing (crystals) happens when it's just two EO's (e.g. Lemongrass & Lime) so I don't think that's the problem.
_
*Are your fragrance oils/colorants made for M&P?
*
_No they are not specifically for M & P. I use only EO's and clay for colour.
_
*As for the soap that has been in the shower, I think that just may be from the lather drying on the surface in a humid environment. Is it tacky/sticky or dry?*

_The soap in the shower feels like any soap that has been in a shower! I made another with the same ingredients to see if the same thing would happen and it did but the other soap is slimy.
_
*And my last thought...is this happening to all of your soaps, or just a few? 
*
_It is now happening to all the soaps! I don't think I had the problem at the beginning, or i just don't recall it. I know all soaps do funny things (well quite often they do) and I didn't really pay much attention to it at first and then i realised it was always happening a lot and I got worried.
_
*It's kind of "Process of Elimination" when trying to find the cause of the problem, but if it were all your soaps, I would look into the base your using and the supplier you are getting it from.*

_I think that my supplier has ruled out it being the base that is the problem. He has been very helpful and took my concerns seriously. It must be something I am doing wrong, but if only i knew what it was. Is it in the cooling process? Would it help if I had a dehumidifer on when the soap was setting? The house feels cold and damp could that be it? Are there too many essentials oils in the soap (I only put in 2%). Is it the bain marie, does it need direct heat? Should I buy a heavy base pan to melt it in? I am asking myself all these questions! I wish I knew someone else who was using the same base as myself (Stephenson's ECO (Palm Free) Crystal clear base) to see how things are going for them!
_


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## rebobinar (Oct 17, 2012)

It's lovely that the supplier is helping you, but if it were me, I'd try my recipe as is with a different base just to rule it out for my own piece of mind. 
I might also try a different mold - just once to see if it changed anything.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Oct 17, 2012)

It seems like it could be that something is oxidizing on the surface of your soap. I say that because it is only on the surface and not throughout the soap. Perhaps you got a tainted base or essential oils? Maybe its some reaction to your double boiler (is it stainless steel or aluminum?). Who knows...but I would try a sample mold with your BASE ONLY, no additives. If it still happens, try your base only in a different mold. If it still happens, it's your base.


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## lovefish (Oct 22, 2012)

Thank you every one, have a lot of work on my hands!


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## lisamaliga (Oct 22, 2012)

You've gotten some excellent advice. 
Please let us know what happens with your next batch.


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## WitchWayBeauty (Oct 23, 2012)

It could be excess moisture in the air and packaging not airtight.


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## Sanctuary (Oct 27, 2012)

It is definitely mold.  I recognize it because I have had chemistry classes....it is definately mold.  I don't think it was the base that you used....it might be environmental.....maybe the room they were in was too cold....I think it's environmental, so sit down and look closely at how you are making your soap....all aspects from start to finish and see if something stands out.....hope this helps you.

Sanctuary


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## lovefish (Feb 20, 2013)

Hi Everyone,

I eventually found out what was wrong with the soaps, so thought I should put it here so someone else can learn from this.
The stuff that looks like mold is called 'blooming'. The same thing can happen to chocolate too!

Because the base i use is of the more natural variety apparently it is more likely to happen. It is necessary to "temper" the soap base at 65-70 degrees (hold at temp for 10 minutes). 

The soaps crystals like formations in the soap can also be prevented in the same way.

I hope this is help to anyone who ever experiences anything like this in their soaps!


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## hlee (Feb 20, 2013)

I work with chocolate and fat bloom is very common if not tempered correctly.
I am  not surprised that it can happen with soap also.
You will see it often if chocolate gets put in the freezer, etc.
Harmless in chocolate and harmless in soap I presume also, just not to pretty.


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