# Beer Soap



## BattleGnome (Jan 7, 2016)

I'm jumping into making my first beer soap. I plan on using my usual soap recipe and upping the sf a bit. My question is about the beer prep.

I plan on using Dragon's Milk, a stout from New Holland Brewing Co, and my husband keeps critiquing my explinations of getting the beer to go flat. I was planning on leaving it on the counter in a pitcher for a few days and hitting it with my sb a few times but I'm being told that will ruin some of the scent and make it go bitter. 

Does anyone have any expirence with soaping with stout? Should I use the boil method instead?


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## Misschief (Jan 7, 2016)

I've used both methods. With my first, I boiled it down. With the second, I let it go flat on it's own by leaving it open for a few days. As long as it's flat, it doesn't matter how it got there.

You can tell your husband that the scent doesn't come through in the final product and you won't be eating the soap so the taste of the beer isn't an issue either. I found that the only thing that came through in the final product was some of the colour. 

Here's a pic of my oatmeal stout. The light colour is the natural colour; I added cocoa to the darker part.


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## lsg (Jan 7, 2016)

I just let the beer set opened in the refrigerator for a couple of days.  I use oatmeal stout FO from Wholesale Supplies Plus to fragrance the soap.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jan 7, 2016)

The CO2 isn't as big a problem as the alcohol.  Use the boil (simmer, actually) method to drive out most of the alcohol.  Ethanol boils at 172F, so if you really care you can take the temp and see the temp rise plateau around there as the alcohol boils away (assuming you're not applying so much heat that you overdrive that plateau).  When temp starts rising above 175-ish, you should have most of the alcohol out and you can stop and freeze the beer.

I must say, though, that I think that beer is wasted on soap.  The bourbon and vanilla character won't make it into the finished soap and the 11% alcohol is just going to be wasted into the air.  Considering it's price, I humbly suggest that you make your first attempt with a more pedestrian, lower alcohol, cheaper stout or porter.  

Also, be prepared that beer soap smells *terrible* when you're making it.  Don't worry; that goes away with the cure.

ETA:  To those saying to just let it go flat, this beer is twice as strong as a "typical" 5%-ish beer.  That much alcohol has a good chance to make the soap seize.  I really would not soap with it unless I drove off the alcohol first.


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## lsg (Jan 7, 2016)

I have not had that problem BG, but thanks for clarifying why beer is boiled down.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 7, 2016)

There can be a bit of a hoppy scent from the soap right after the soap is made, but that pretty much fades with cure, so there's no point in worrying about what happens to the taste or smell. 

In the end, beer basically boosts lather, adds color, and has great label appeal. Other than that, don't expect too much. 

I personally wouldn't leave beer out at room temperature for days to go flat. I'm not too keen on adding something to my soap that might be actively growing bacteria or fungi. I usually simmer my beer and reduce it to about half its original volume.


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## shunt2011 (Jan 7, 2016)

I too just let it sit out for a few days in the fridge.  I don't freeze it either.  I just add the lye to my beer slowly and go from there.  I've use quite a lot of beers and never had an issue even more potent beers. I've also simmered them down to a syrupy mix and then added it to my oils before my lye mixture.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jan 7, 2016)

shunt2011 said:


> I too just let it sit out for a few days in the fridge.  I don't freeze it either.  I just add the lye to my beer slowly and go from there.  I've use quite a lot of beers and never had an issue even more potent beers. I've also simmered them down to a syrupy mix and then added it to my oils before my lye mixture.



Well, if you've simmered them down like that, then you've automatically driven out the alcohol in the process.

BTW, I'm not saying that Dragon's Milk won't make soap.  I'm saying it's a waste of a $4 bottle of beer because none of the "top shelf" qualities of the beer will survive in the soap.  You'll get the same finished soap just using a Sam Adams Cream Stout or similar.


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## TheDragonGirl (Jan 7, 2016)

I actually used dragon's milk in my beer/malta/wheat beer comparison test! 

I did boil them just enough to take out the alcohol then froze them into cubes

I actually can smell the beer still in my little bars, but that may just be my nose being sensitive to the smell


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## BrewerGeorge (Jan 7, 2016)

TheDragonGirl said:


> I actually used dragon's milk in my beer/malta/wheat beer comparison test!
> 
> I did boil them just enough to take out the alcohol then froze them into cubes
> 
> I actually can smell the beer still in my little bars, but that may just be my nose being sensitive to the smell


IME, the roasted qualities can carry through, so stouts and porters work.  But hops don't unless you get into ridiculous amounts of actual hops as an additive.  (Most hop compounds are acids and get destroyed by the lye.)


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## Obsidian (Jan 7, 2016)

I boil my beer so I can get more into the soap. I typically use a 16 oz bottle for a 2 pound batch of soap. I boil the beer down to 2 oz or so of thick beer syrup. This is mixed into the oils, this way I never have to mix the lye directly into the beer.


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## kchaystack (Jan 7, 2016)

Hey BattleGnome,  I like to use Nevermore from the same brewery!  Are you from Michigan as well?

I am the BrewerGeorge as to the prep.  Simmer and reduce, freeze and use that as my liquid.  Alcohol will accelerate the trace if there is too much.  I have also found that the scent does not last - but I used a mix of lavender and cedar and peppermint in mine.


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## CaraBou (Jan 7, 2016)

I'm on board with Brewer George; a little precaution is worth the hassle.  And like DragonGirl, I smell beer in the final product (at least when most of the water is coming from it).  So consider how much beer you need in your soap to get an effect you are pleased with.  I would go with no more than half of the total water, especially if you have not evaporated out the alcohol.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jan 7, 2016)

TheDragonGirl said:


> I actually used dragon's milk in my beer/malta/wheat beer comparison test!
> 
> I did boil them just enough to take out the alcohol then froze them into cubes
> 
> I actually can smell the beer still in my little bars, but that may just be my nose being sensitive to the smell



That's interesting.  What were the results of your comparison?

Since I started I've always assumed that unfermented wort would be the best option - although because of the high amounts of sugar it would have to be treated more like a honey addition than a water replacement.  Since malta is basically carbonated wort, I'd love to know your findings.


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## TheDragonGirl (Jan 7, 2016)

BrewerGeorge said:


> That's interesting.  What were the results of your comparison?
> 
> Since I started I've always assumed that unfermented wort would be the best option - although because of the high amounts of sugar it would have to be treated more like a honey addition than a water replacement.  Since malta is basically carbonated wort, I'd love to know your findings.


 
Here you go! http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=55078


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## cmzaha (Jan 7, 2016)

BrewerGeorge said:


> The CO2 isn't as big a problem as the alcohol.  Use the boil (simmer, actually) method to drive out most of the alcohol.  Ethanol boils at 172F, so if you really care you can take the temp and see the temp rise plateau around there as the alcohol boils away (assuming you're not applying so much heat that you overdrive that plateau).  When temp starts rising above 175-ish, you should have most of the alcohol out and you can stop and freeze the beer.
> 
> I must say, though, that I think that beer is wasted on soap.  The bourbon and vanilla character won't make it into the finished soap and the 11% alcohol is just going to be wasted into the air.  Considering it's price, I humbly suggest that you make your first attempt with a more pedestrian, lower alcohol, cheaper stout or porter.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with the just letting it go flat. I know I have posted this before but I have had craft beer that still caused a volcano after it had been sitting out in the fridge for a week, brought to temp to drive off the alcohol and froze it. I now cook off the alcohol, not down to a syrup, and do not mix it with my lye. I also use the cheapest beer I can find so I can add beer to the label. I would much rather drink the good stuff, since I cannot stand to drink run of the mill beer


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## KristaY (Jan 7, 2016)

I'm also in BG's camp on the ethanol issue. I simmer mine (not boil) so I know the ethanol is completely gone. Because the boiling point of ethanol is 172, I don't allow the temp to rise above 180. I learned the hard way not to bring to full boil as it starts to smell burned and this scent did make it's way to my soap which wasn't pleasant. I also experimented with many different brands and flavors of beer and in the end, I couldn't tell the difference in quality of the bars. Basically label appeal was the only difference. Now I use inexpensive beer with low alcohol % and all is good.


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## MySoapyHeart (Jan 7, 2016)

I am intrigued by making soap using beer. We have some good Norwegian ones, but the alcohol level of many of them is around 4.5 & up to 8%, so perhaps wise to let them simmer carefully first. Anyone used beer without alcohol in soap?? Would love to try this some time, so taking notes of what is said here, very informative!
Now if I only can sneak a bottle of beer into the kitchen that my husband may not drink.

Hmm *plotting*:think:


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## BrewerGeorge (Jan 7, 2016)

One other point toward not simply letting the beer go flat that I just thought of:  

Beer allowed to go "flat" by just sitting out will still have 1 atmosphere's worth (brewers call it "volume") of CO2 still dissolved in solution. (This effect is increased if the beer is "flattened" in the fridge as colder solutions hold onto more CO2 by definition.) The way that CO2 dissolves in water is by creating carbonic acid.  So if you simply let the beer go flat on its own, there will be residual carbonic acid in the liquid to neutralize some of your lye and thereby raise the superfat.  

OTOH, heating the beer to boiling to drive off the alcohol will also drive off essentially all of the CO2.  Freezing it quickly afterward (especially in a sealed jar - lots of headroom please!) will minimize the amount of CO2 that the cooling beer reabsorbes from the air.  But even if you let it cool on the counter, the end result will still be better since room air is only 20-some percent CO2 compared to 100% CO2 in packaged beer.  So simmering will reduce by a factor of at least 5 - if not completely eliminate - any unintended effects of the carbonic acid on superfat.

Obviously, increased superfat isn't the end of the world, but the net effect will be a soap that is not what your calculations predicted it would be.  I'm not going to take the time to try to calculate the magnitude of the impact, especially because the temperature of the "flat" beer has such a big impact on exactly how much CO2 is left in solution and temperature can vary wildly.  I'm just going to do my best to remove that variable entirely by simmering the beer first.


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## galaxyMLP (Jan 7, 2016)

I used a cider in my first "beer" soap. Yes, apple cider isnt beer but the idea is the same. I read that I could just let it go flat in the fridge for a few days. It volcanoed when I added the lye. Thankfully it was in a VERY tall container and in the sink! I did not get any spillage but man, that was scary! 

I boil all of my alcohols now. Wine, beer, cider, ect. to drive off the alcohol. Beers and ciders fizz quite a bit when you first apply heat. That goes back to what BG was saying about the dissolved CO2.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jan 7, 2016)

To those who are saying they can't tell the difference with the cheapest beer, let me make a confession:  In spite of the fact that the goal of using beer in soap is what got me into soaping in the first place, I no longer use beer in any soaps.  I understand those who do for label appeal, but as I do not sell I find that I can get the same results with a splash of milk and table sugar while avoiding all the boil/freeze process hassles of beer.  The only exception is the dark roasty character from stouts or porters.


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## KristaY (Jan 7, 2016)

galaxyMLP said:


> I used a cider in my first "beer" soap. Yes, apple cider isnt beer but the idea is the same. I read that I could just let it go flat in the fridge for a few days. It volcanoed when I added the lye. Thankfully it was in a VERY tall container and in the sink! I did not get any spillage but man, that was scary!
> 
> I boil all of my alcohols now. Wine, beer, cider, ect. to drive off the alcohol. Beers and ciders fizz quite a bit when you first apply heat. That goes back to what BG was saying about the dissolved CO2.



The only lye volcano I've had was when I used a hard cider. I thought I had simmered it enough but NOOOO! It was up and over the container in a blink. Scared the crap out of me then irritated me to no end during the clean up. This one had a higher ABV than I usually use (maybe 10%?) so I assume that was the problem in not allowing it to simmer long enough. Now I stick with approx 5% ABV and use it for about 80% of my lye water.


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## galaxyMLP (Jan 7, 2016)

Krista, that sounds like it was no fun! Mine was the typical 5% but it was very sweet. I know that had a lot to do with it. I simmer my liquids now down to about 1/4th to 1/8th the original volume. I don't usually make my lye water in it. I'll add it to the oils usually or at trace.


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## lsg (Jan 7, 2016)

I forgot to say that I do freeze the beer, flat in a ziplock bag, after letting it go flat in the refrigerator.


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## BattleGnome (Jan 8, 2016)

BrewerGeorge said:


> I must say, though, that I think that beer is wasted on soap.  The bourbon and vanilla character won't make it into the finished soap and the 11% alcohol is just going to be wasted into the air.  Considering it's price, I humbly suggest that you make your first attempt with a more pedestrian, lower alcohol, cheaper stout or porter.



I wholeheartedly agree with you about the price vs qualities that would make it to the finished soap but I'm partly going for label appeal (dragon themed). 

Thank you for the advice/mention of carbonic acid in one of your other posts. I didnt know carbonic acid would be a consideration to lye potency. (I didnt really think about what caused the carbonation, just that it was there)


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## BattleGnome (Jan 8, 2016)

kchaystack said:


> Hey BattleGnome,  I like to use Nevermore from the same brewery!  Are you from Michigan as well?



I went to college in Holland but have since settled in the UP


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## Saponista (Jan 8, 2016)

I reduced the beer to a syrup the first time I tried and it made the soap really soft and sticky. Now I just leave it open overnight and use it without concentrating it down.


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