# When To Add Fragrance



## Adri71 (May 9, 2020)

I have about ten CP batches under my belt, all have turned out well so far. knock wood.  I learned to add my essential oils/fragrance oils at trace but I recently watched a Soap Queen video where she had a guest soaper on who added her fragrances to her oils.  This surprised Ann Marie, who did not go into detail about the pros and cons of why you should or should not add them at trace/to oils.  Thoughts?


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## lsg (May 9, 2020)

Some people add FO to the oils if the FO is known to accelerate trace.  "Mixing your fragrance into your soaping oils before adding your lye solution will help dilute the fragrance and give you more control."








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## Obsidian (May 9, 2020)

There are a few members here who add the fragrance up front. I think some people do it with finicky FO to help slow down acceleration or just so they don't forget to add it at all. 

For what its worth, I don't have a set time to add fragrance. Sometimes I add it to oils, sometimes at emulsion, less often at trace.


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## jcandleattic (May 9, 2020)

I would say that 99.9% of the time I add my fragrance to my oils before adding my lye. No particular reason, I just have always done it that way. The only time I don't is when I make my 7 layer rainbow soap. Then I add my fragrance to each layer right before I pour.
I don’t really buy into the adage that putting the fo in the oils before hand helps with finicky fragrances. I think accelerators, seizers, ricers, etc, are all going to do that no matter what, you just have to be prepared for it.


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## shunt2011 (May 9, 2020)

I pretty much always my fragrance to my oils before the lye. Keeps me from forgetting it and I find I have more control.


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## Adri71 (May 9, 2020)

lsg said:


> Some people add FO to the oils if the FO is known to accelerate trace.  "Mixing your fragrance into your soaping oils before adding your lye solution will help dilute the fragrance and give you more control."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you for this, I've read it twice.  I just put a pot of tea on and I plan on reading it a few more times.  This is a game changer!


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## cmzaha (May 9, 2020)

I add my fragrance at emulsion after I separate my batter for coloring. If it is a new fragrance I suspect will accelerate quickly I will add the fragrance to my oils and prepare to do a single color. If it behaves I will pour off batter and color portions of it.


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## amd (May 9, 2020)

I add my fo to my oils before lye as well. I just never saw the point in waiting until trace. A soapmaking friend of mine with a chemist husband says to wait until trace ... Something about volatile oils and burning off the scent, but honestly it never made sense, especially for the 39 seconds it takes me to mix my oils.


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## Adri71 (May 9, 2020)

amd said:


> I add my fo to my oils before lye as well. I just never saw the point in waiting until trace. A soapmaking friend of mine with a chemist husband says to wait until trace ... Something about volatile oils and burning off the scent, but honestly it never made sense, especially for the 39 seconds it takes me to mix my oils.



Do you use more eo/fo to account for the fact that the scent will be diluted by the chemical process or just accept that the scent is lessened by this method? Or is it an issue for you?


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## amd (May 9, 2020)

Adri71 said:


> Do you use more eo/fo to account for the fact that the scent will be diluted by the chemical process or just accept that the scent is lessened by this method? Or is it an issue for you?


I don't because it's simply not an issue. Like I said, the friends thoughts about burning off scent don't make sense, I haven't experienced it even when I used .5 oz PPO. I use 1.0 oz PPO to extend shelf life, not because I lose scent when making.


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## jcandleattic (May 9, 2020)

amd said:


> I don't because it's simply not an issue. Like I said, the friends thoughts about burning off scent don't make sense, I haven't experienced it even when I used .5 oz PPO. I use 1.0 oz PPO to extend shelf life, not because I lose scent when making.


I agree with this. 
It sounds like the flashpoint argument. Which, btw, is my biggest pet peeve in the scented world.


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## Adri71 (May 9, 2020)

amd said:


> I don't because it's simply not an issue. Like I said, the friends thoughts about burning off scent don't make sense, I haven't experienced it even when I used .5 oz PPO. I use 1.0 oz PPO to extend shelf life, not because I lose scent when making.



Thank you for clarifying.  I see what you're saying.  I like a strongly fragranced soap.


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## jcandleattic (May 9, 2020)

Adri71 said:


> Thank you for clarifying.  I see what you're saying.  I like a strongly fragranced soap.


Just keep in mind if you ever decide to start selling, that just because you like a strongly fragranced soap, not everyone else does. 
But as said above, I find 1oz ppo is the max I will go with any scent, and with strong scents I typically drop that down because more is just not needed.


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## SPowers (May 10, 2020)

lsg said:


> Some people add FO to the oils if the FO is known to accelerate trace.  "Mixing your fragrance into your soaping oils before adding your lye solution will help dilute the fragrance and give you more control."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm looking at the site and there are a couple of pics - one of Soapcalc and one from www.soapmaker.ca - do you know if the web link is valid - is there such a site anymore - it take me to a 'security check' with a link I'm not keen on clicking.  Thanks,


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## Adri71 (May 10, 2020)

SPowers said:


> I'm looking at the site and there are a couple of pics - one of Soapcalc and one from www.soapmaker.ca - do you know if the web link is valid - is there such a site anymore - it take me to a 'security check' with a link I'm not keen on clicking.  Thanks,



I'm able to view it


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## Adri71 (May 10, 2020)

Adri71 said:


> I'm able to view it



I know that's not terribly helpful, sorry.  Hope it gets sorted out.  It's excellent!


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## Obsidian (May 10, 2020)

Yes, that site is valid. It will take you to soapmaker 3 which is another lye calculator but its not free


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## SPowers (May 10, 2020)

Adri71 said:


> I'm able to view it



I get the site when I click the link above - originally I was typing 'www'soapingmaking.ca - guess it doesn't like the www.  Thanks!


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## SPowers (May 10, 2020)

I downloaded the Soapmake.ca and it looks like it will be a handy program to have.  A question for those using it... how do you get the specific gravity number required when adding new additives, etc.  Do you use the same number for all or do you specifically find it out for each ingredient?  Thanks,


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## earlene (May 11, 2020)

I had no idea Soapmaker3 had a free downloadable calculator!  When did they make that available?  I don't recall seeing it about 18 months ago.  I was still considering possibly purchasing SM3 until SoapmakingFriend came along, so I haven't looked at the website in some time.

But I really do like the idea of a downloadable lye calculator because there have been a few times when I had poor or NO internet access (due to my traveling habits) and making soap without an online calculator was an issue I didn't really want to face.  Yes, I know there are ways to calculate the old fashioned way, but I don't carry around a book explaining how it's done.  I just carry around my computer and without internet access, I get lost.  I never thought of downloading the instructions to a file.  I did used to have an android version of some lye calculator on my phone in the past, but didn't really like it much.

But that is not on topic.

I almost always add FO to the oils in the main pot because I have forgotten to add it to so many batches when I left it to the last. It just helps me not to forget to add my fragrances.

Another trick that some people use is to put the FO inside the mold so they won't forget to add it before finishing the soap.  

There have been times that adding to the oil didn't save me from having a problem with a finicky fragrance. Some fragrances need special handling, but that's a whole other thread.


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## jcandleattic (May 11, 2020)

SPowers said:


> I downloaded the Soapmake.ca and it looks like it will be a handy program to have.  A question for those using it... how do you get the specific gravity number required when adding new additives, etc.  Do you use the same number for all or do you specifically find it out for each ingredient?  Thanks,


There is a specific thread on here for SM3 I believe, could be helpful. Also if you use Facebook, there is a SM3 help group ran by the developer of SM3 that is helpful also. To answer your question though, to keep your inventory as accurate as possible, yes, you want the specific gravity of each ingredient, not just a generic placeholder. Most can be found online.


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## Bladesmith (May 11, 2020)

SPowers said:


> I downloaded the Soapmake.ca and it looks like it will be a handy program to have.  A question for those using it... how do you get the specific gravity number required when adding new additives, etc.  Do you use the same number for all or do you specifically find it out for each ingredient?  Thanks,



It is best to find the correct specific gravity for each ingredient that you add in there. That way if you use SM3 to do some volume calculations, they will be more accurate.


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## SPowers (May 11, 2020)

I was reading something somewhere on the web that the calculations on Soapcalc and Soapmaker.ca can be different and shouldn't be used interchangeably.  I love the idea of a stand-alone program - it's a one stop place for saving your recipes whereas Soapcalc is limited to a certain number of recipes and you can't show the recipe name.
Soapmaker.ca is more in depth as noted with the required info of 'specific gravity' on FO's and EO's... if anyone uses Soapmaker.ca, I would greatly appreciate knowing how you handle new ingredients as it relates to the SG issue.


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## Bladesmith (May 11, 2020)

SPowers said:


> I was reading something somewhere on the web that the calculations on Soapcalc and Soapmaker.ca can be different and shouldn't be used interchangeably.  I love the idea of a stand-alone program - it's a one stop place for saving your recipes whereas Soapcalc is limited to a certain number of recipes and you can't show the recipe name.
> Soapmaker.ca is more in depth as noted with the required info of 'specific gravity' on FO's and EO's... if anyone uses Soapmaker.ca, I would greatly appreciate knowing how you handle new ingredients as it relates to the SG issue.



I use Soapmaker 3 (the program that you are referring to). Different calculators use slightly different SAP values for the oils so the numbers will be different but still very similar. It is best to stick with a single calculator.

As I said in my previous post, it is best to find the correct specific gravity for any ingredient you add to the program, if possible. Specific gravity is basically just density relative to water (with water having a value of 1). Most oils are below 1 (they float in water). For EO's, _most _of them are below 1 but not all. For FO's, many of them are actually above 1.

Specific gravity is used to convert mass to volume or vice versa. So, you measure out your oils and ingredients in grams. Say you have several different sized molds saved in Soapmaker 3. If you want to resize the recipe to a different mold, the program will use the specific gravities of the ingredients to determine the amounts (in grams) for the volume of the mold you're resizing to. The more accurate the specific gravity values you put in, the more accurate the volume calculations will be.

So, the answer is: find the values if you can. If not, put in a dummy value. Most of the time FO's and EO's aren't going to be major factors in volume calculations anyways. I would be more concerned with your major soaping oils. Most of those should already be in the program though.

And depending on the version of the software you have, you can use it to record purchases and keep up with inventories of oils. You can record your oil purchases by gallon or some volume amount (or however you've purchased it). And once you tell the software that you've made a certain recipe, it will reduce the appropriate amount of oil in the inventory. These conversions from grams to volume and back are all done with specific gravity.


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## SPowers (May 11, 2020)

Thank you for the detailed explanation.  The software I downloaded has a total of 3 FO's shown so  it looks like I will be putting in a dummy number... 0.95 is shown for the 3 listed so this is what I'll use.
This forum would be a good spot for people to post SG on items they've researched... just a thought.


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