# Pine Tar Recipe



## The Efficacious Gentleman

Hello everyone.

Searched for a recipe but didn't find anything conclusive - 

Looking for a good Pine Tar recipe.  I know Pine Tar should be a lower %, but would appreciate a decent stock recipe.

When posting ideas (and thanks in advance! :clap: ) please state CP or HP preferred.


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## DeeAnna

Pine tar soap is really simple. Use your favorite basic soap recipe and either CP or HP as you prefer. If you have a recipe that makes a harder soap, I'd choose it over one that makes a softer soap -- PT will make the soap a bit softer by its nature. Keep your superfat at a modest amount -- don't go overboard. If you use HP, I'd suggest a 28% NaOH concentration (aka "full water").

The tricks to making PT soap: 

Expect the soap batter to trace unusually quickly. Sometimes it doesn't, but you can't assume that with this type of recipe. 
Get your mold and work area prepped for immediate action before you start mixing the soap. 
Keep your ingredients relatively cool -- room temperature is good, although some people even refrigerate the lye solution. (I don't)
If you use fragrance, choose a non-accelerating product.
Mix your pine tar, fragrance, and any other additives into your oils or water before mixing everything together -- don't try to add ingredients after the batter is started. 
Stir ONLY by hand with a spatula or spoon -- avoid using a mixer or stick blender. 
The lye solution should be the last thing you add to the other ingredients.


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## dixiedragon

I tend to use a recipe that is very high in olive oil, b/c olive oil is slow to trace but, given time, will make a hard bar. I read someplace that the highest recommended amount of pine tar is 25% - I don't recommend that at all! I have some 25% pine tar soap that I made over the summer that is STILL soft. I can't get it out of the mold without mushing up the soap.

I use the soap calc calculator, and I increase my water to 40% (their standard is 30%). I also scent mine with lavender eo. I have read that lavender eo will slow trace. I can't confirm or deny that - I haven't really experimented. But I can tell you that my pine tar recipe - increased water, lots of olive oil, lavender - does not sieze badly like some have described. 

I get a big paint stirrer from Home Depot to use as my stirring spoon, so I can throw it away. With pine tar, it is sticky and hard to clean off, so you want to use as many disposable things as you can. I also recommended a disposable mold - I use cardboard orange juice or milk carton.

Put the can of pine tar in a sauce pan of water like a double boiler to heat it, then it will pour fairly easily.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

My thoughts are (variation on the ingredients I used in my first soap) - 

Olive oil - 30%
Coconut oil - 40%
Palm oil - 16%
Rapeseed oil - 4%
Pine Tar - 10%

At 10% SF and 38% water.  No EOs, just the PT.  CP (CPOP?) as I want to try it before I have my stuff for HP

Number look interesting - only 40 on conditioning which is just under the suggested range.  Is that a huge issue?


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## judymoody

In case you don't know, pine tar does have a SAP value and you should include it in your lye calculations.

I have used it at 20%.  I won't repeat the useful, relevant advice you already have gotten.  My recipe was 20% CO, 5% castor, 20% pine tar and the balance was olive oil.

Most importantly - soap cool and move fast.  DO...NOT...INSULATE.  I left mine unscented.


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## DeeAnna

I have heard others in addition to Dixiedragon who use disposable stuff, but I haven't had any trouble cleaning up my tools, containers, and molds. For me, this is just like cleaning up after a "normal" soap -- plenty of hot water, soap, and elbow grease works wonders. No smell or discoloration lingers. 

I normally get 5-10 minutes of mixing time before the batter wants to thicken, so my PT soaps are behaving in a fairly civilized fashion, although I want to stress that this is with hand mixing only. I use a 33% lye solution (more concentrated than "full water") and am using 10% pine tar based on the oil weight. I have used fragrance in some and no fragrance in others. I don't think fragrance adds a lot, since the scent of pine tar is so bold. I would not CPOP ... just plain ol' CP as Judy sez.

40 on conditioning? That might be fine if you have experience with conditioning in this range and your skin is okay with it. It would be low for me. I would not use 40% coconut oil -- far too efficient of a cleanser for my taste. I also use 5% superfat in almost all of my soap recipes, but my conditioning % is usually in the 50s. I'm not a believer in the practice of raising the superfat to compensate for lower conditioning. You'll find PT soap to be an efficient yet mild cleanser with a lot of lather, so no need to go overboard on the brittle fats (coconut, palm kernel, etc.)


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## dixiedragon

IMO, 40% is too much coconut. I have always used 25% or less, but I have read about soapers using 40% coconut and talking about how their soap traced really really fast.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

judymoody said:


> In case you don't know, pine tar does have a SAP value and you should include it in your lye calculations.
> 
> I have used it at 20%. I won't repeat the useful, relevant advice you already have gotten. My recipe was 20% CO, 5% castor, 20% pine tar and the balance was olive oil.
> 
> Most importantly - soap cool and move fast. DO...NOT...INSULATE. I left mine unscented.


 
JM, how did this recipe work out for you in the end?


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## judymoody

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> JM, how did this recipe work out for you in the end?



The first time I made it, it overheated and I had to rebatch.  The second time was fine.  Stir, no SB.  I made it for my sister's friend who has psoriasis and it gave her some relief.  As fragrance is often not tolerated by people with skin conditions, I left it unscented.  I kind of like the natural smell of the tar.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

So, at the mo Iäm thinking - 

OO 45%
CO 25%
Palm 16%
Rapeseed 4%
Pine Tar 10%

Will have to let it cure for a week while to firm up, but seems like a fairly middle-of-the-road soap that should be quite stable.


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## paillo

I used roughly (made it so the percentages were funky but the ounces were easier to work with):

OO 20%
CO 20%
Palm 10%
PKO 10%
Avocado 9%
Shea 7%
Castor 6%
Pine tar 18%
Scented with Cedarwood, Eucalyptus and Anise EOs.

Superfatted at 5% and plain old CPd.. Didn't have any problems with it, though it did trace fast. Soaped at room temp, used a wire whisk. After a few months it's a really nice, hard bar.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

The Pine Tar arrived today!  Huzzah!  But I won't be able to cook up a batch until Saturday afternoon at the earliest (sad face!)

Still, looking forward to this one.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Okay, here goes................


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Well, one minute I'm looking at a nice light trace.  Two stirs later and I'm having to smooth it out after the pour!  Certainly goes quickly, that's for sure.

It's now safely sat in the freezer.  Pictures and an update when I unmold.

Thanks for all the advice


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Took it out of the freezer - tried to avoid condensation, but it's there. 

I'm also not sure if it's oozing, or just the condensation taking on the colour of the soap.  Will leave it and keep a weather eye on it.

Smells good though.


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## seven

Can you please take a pic or two. Would love to see the results. I've been wanting to make PT soap for a while since the women in my family (my nanna, aunt, me, cousin) are all cursed with eczema. My nanna is the worst and i wanna make some for her. Her poor old self cant stop scratching, her skin is unbelievably dry.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

seven said:


> Can you please take a pic or two. Would love to see the results. I've been wanting to make PT soap for a while since the women in my family (my nanna, aunt, me, cousin) are all cursed with eczema. My nanna is the worst and i wanna make some for her. Her poor old self cant stop scratching, her skin is unbelievably dry.



I'll get some posted up later on today, Seven.  They look like chocolate


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Here you go.  The outside is a lighter brown than the inside - I went through the whole freezing game to try to prevent gel, but I don't think that I succeeded.  Next batch I'll just let it gel away, to be honest, as it's darker than I was hoping for.

Worked up the courage to do a zap test on it (I've been ill this week and not had the best appetite, didn't want to make it worse with the taste of Pine Tar!) and it's all good.

Smell-wise, it's interesting.  Not going to make the top 5 in my list of scents, but it's far from a nasty smell, plus it is more of a specific bar anyway.

The slight texture effect on the face of the soap is from the knife - it was still a little moist.  The 'interesting' top comes from it been too thick to flatten out in the mold 

Looking forward to getting it wet at some point.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Used it for a few days now - early, so it's not holding up too well at all.  I think next time I'll use less water, that's for sure, as it's wetter than a bank holiday weekend in Wales!

As for the soap itself - lather is fab-u-lous and it feels really good to use.  The scent is, of course, a little bit particular.  I think it's one I'll use only if I need to, rather than a regular thing.

I suggest everyone has this in the store room, as it's well worth it


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## DeeAnna

The scent will mellow and soften some as time passes. Honest. The color seems to lighten a wee bit as well, but it will always be in the molasses, caramel, fudge, and chocolate color range -- no namby pamby "creamy ivory" for this kind of soap! 

And, my dear Efficacious, I suggest you do let it gel. Gel won't change the appearance much to speak of, unlike a lighter colored soap, and the soap will be a bit harder in the mold so it's easier to unmold and cut. 

I just got done making a PT soap with a hand-crafted "pit tar" from Sweden. The soap turned out nearly black, with only 10% PT. This is the third type of pine tar I've used -- I'm just curious about the different types. 

I started with the easy-to-find-in-the-USA Bickmore brand (smells strongly of smoky rubber, lightens some to a deep caramel color after cure), went to a Swedish mass produced "light" pine tar (has a generic smoky campfire smell and a chocolate cake color), and lastly tried the hand crafted stuff (smells of smoky campfire made with pine wood, nearly-black color of good blackstrap molasses).

As far as the cost vs. perceived value goes, the Swedish mass produced is the clear winner. It only costs a little more than the Bickmore, but it's 1/4th the cost of the hand crafted stuff. If your smeller works like mine, I recommend either of the Swedish PTs over the Bickmore -- neither one has that burnt rubber tang. I'm not sure the added cost of the the hand crafted PT is worth it, however, especially if you're trying to produce a cost-effective product for sale.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

I agree with the gel - will not do that again with this soap.  And from what a certain wise-woman (aka YOU!) says, it doesn't need too much help to fully gel.

Mine smells of heavily smoked ham that we can buy here called Speck.  It's not unpleasant by any stretch of the imagination, and the soap itself is very enjoyable.


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## paillo

I love mine after about a six-month cure. I use the Farnham US-made brand, can only find it in farm coop stores in the horse health aisle. The guys in my local coop are curious about the PT soap, I've promised to bring them some, and they're interested in carrying it. I sell to only a few local stores, but am thinking I'd love to have this soap in with an entirely different kind of clientele than the norm. They're folks who know pine tar - fun!


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## DeeAnna

I agree, my dear Efficacious, that PT soap doesn't need too much encouragement to gel. I do CPOP this soap, but more along the lines of turn the oven on, preheat to 170 deg F, put soap in, and turn oven off. Just enough to encourage what it naturally wants to do.

For some reason, I've only found the Bickmore product around here. I hadn't thought of this before your suggestion, Paillo, but I now wonder if my horse club folks would be interested? I also have given some of this soap to the guys in our local Whitetails Unlimited chapter. Some guys will shower with PT soap to mask their scent when getting ready for deer hunting.


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## judymoody

I use 20% PT and I need to put it in a cool place, uncovered, or it will overheat and separate.  No SB for this one!


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## DeeAnna

I haven't tried higher than 10% PT. I'm not making this soap for medical reasons so 10% is fine for me, and I know the chances of a softer soap or overheating are higher the more PT in the recipe. Might try it someday, though, and I'll keep your caution in mind!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Mine was a mere 10%, too.  Will make another batch (it was just a 500g batch to start) as I think it'll hold.  Trouble is, no-one here has heard of it - when people in the 1800's were using it in the UK and US, I don't think that the idea got down this far, unless it's known as something else entirely.  Even to the extent that they don't use it to treat wood or horses hooves!


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