# Savon de Marseille?



## Rosey (Jul 21, 2009)

So I'm originally from France and the "savon de marseille" is a household item and I wanted to make some but all I could find was that it's 72% OO. Well and then what? lol

I have looked and looked and google has failed me...in both languages


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## Classic (Jul 21, 2009)

Maybe this will help???

http://www.marseillesoap.com/history.cfm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marseille_soap


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## Egzandra (Jul 21, 2009)

I once bought Savon de Marseille in a local cut-price store (Lidl, UK),  It was sold as a liquid cleaning soap, and I used it for the kitchen floor.  Have not been able to find it since.  It smelt very nice, and I did not know it was probably made of olive oil.


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## Rosey (Jul 21, 2009)

That does help but it doesn't tell me more than what I know. 72% OO, I know they add palm and coconut maybe? I just wanted to come close. I wouldn't dream of calling it savon de marseille but i wanted to get that same feel.

I love the liquid one too. Ah..childhood


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## dagmar88 (Jul 21, 2009)

From what I know, it's olive oil & palm.


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## Classic (Jul 21, 2009)

Martha did it this way...
http://www.marthastewart.com/article/sa ... y_kw=savon de marseille&rsc=header_1


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## IrishLass (Jul 21, 2009)

Rosey, about a little over a year ago I was curious about Savon de Marseilles, too,    A cousin of mine had gone to France and brought some bars of it back for my Aunt, who then raved to me about it.  I did a bunch of searches on it, but all I could glean was that it was made with 72% Olive oil, sea water, palm oil and copra oil (which is the same as coconut oil).  Not knowing what the other %'s were, I made up my own version using 72% OO, 24.4% CO, and 3.6% Tallow (I didn't have any palm on hand). I also threw some French green clay into it. I don't know if it was anything like the real thing, but it turned out to a pretty nice Castile-type soap.

IrishLass


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## Rosey (Jul 21, 2009)

Sounds awesome. I never knew they used sea salt until i read it. Sounds like it's a secret recipe   

I may try your recipe if that's ok and see what it turns out! I've been looking where to get the clay. I love the green color of those soaps!


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## IrishLass (Jul 21, 2009)

By all means, Rosey- go ahead and try it!   Let us know how it comes out!

IrishLass

Edited because I spelled your name wrong.


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## Rosey (Jul 21, 2009)

Thanks! I need to go out and buy some more OO, I ran out   

I'm going to make 2 more batches tonight of GM (with castor and not canola...pfft me.)


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## gekko62 (Jul 21, 2009)

'Soap Naturally ' gives 50% OO 50% tallow or palm


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## heartsong (Jul 22, 2009)

*x*

just a thought...

savon de marseilles is made with seawater, which is pretty salty-and we know c/p salt bars are extremely hard.

has anyone soaped with just salty water, and if so did the bars become harder?  did they lather better (?) since coconut oil is the only soap that lathers in salt water.

did it accelerate or act funny?  would it harden faster?

so many mysteries, so little time!  :roll:


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## soapandwine (Nov 6, 2012)

I know this thread is old, but I wanted to add my 2 cents, as there seems to be some confusion on the 72% of olive oil part.  

I imagine that Marseille soaps say 72% Olive oil because that's the percentage of oil to the TOTAL weight of the soap.  In other words, I image that in a 100oz batch, it'll be 72oz of olive oil (100% of the oils) + 28oz of the water/lye combo.  Based on standard lye calculators, then they either do some lye or water discount or both.


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## Seifenblasen (Nov 6, 2012)

Soapandwine is absolutely correct! 

Here it says that "a real savon de Marseille consists of 72% oil.  It must be of vegetable oil or a mixture of vegetable oils or olive oil, but of the same percentage.  (I believe it doesn't say the oils must be of equal proportion, but the total of the oils must be 72% of total weight).  Depends on the oils used, the color of the soap varies.  It must not contain animal fats or preservatives".  

The weight stamped on the soap is its weight when freshly cut, not fully cured.

http://www.familleaunaturel.com/reconna ... marseille/

And according to this site, the ones made with coconut and palm oils are cream and with olive, coconut, and palm oils are green.  (Note:  The green color comes from the olive oil, not additives or clay or colorants.  In fact, no additives are allowed other than a tiny drop of essential oil).

http://www.avignon-et-provence.com/savo ... Jk5g_UjLec

Most of the French websites stated that the only oils used are coconut, palm, and olive.  Olive pomace is allowed.  Marius Fabre added shea butter to some of the small soaps but there is no mention of sea water.

Savon de marseille actually originated from Aleppo soap, a 100% olive and bay laurel oil hot-process soap from Syria ...   

http://www.alepposoap.com/presentation.html


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## AngelMomma (Nov 6, 2012)

I have been so intrigued by this soap for a long time.  It would be so cool to tour a factory that makes the real thing and talk to the soapmaker.  Although, I am SURE they have and will always keep their SECRETS.  It amazes me that they cook it for DAYS!!!  I wonder if they must have to up the water amount for it to cook that long.


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## SoapAddict415 (Nov 6, 2012)

The version savon de marseille that I like to make is 74% OO, 18% CO & 8% castor oil. It comes out very nice.


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## Seifenblasen (Nov 6, 2012)

> It would be so cool to tour a factory that makes the real thing and talk to the soapmaker. Although, I am SURE they have and will always keep their SECRETS.



I take it you mean the factories in France?  It would be a bit risky to visit the ones in Aleppo right now ...   :twisted: 

To arrange a tour at one of the factories in Salon-de-Provence, contact here:

http://www.avignon-et-provence.com/savo ... Jmo84UZxo4

The catch is even if you have the "secret formula", it will be impossible to duplicate at home, i.e., have a cauldron of hot soap boiling for days.  Also, the Aleppo soaps are cured in a cave-like environment for sometimes years.  I doubt I have that kind of patience!


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## DragonQueenHHP (Nov 6, 2012)

http://savondemarseille.com/

looks like something I want to try


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## AngelMomma (Nov 7, 2012)

Going to France to actually get a tour is out of the realm of possibility for me.  Probably forever, since I don't buy lottery tickets  :wink:


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## Seifenblasen (Nov 7, 2012)

It's in French (and with a southern accent to boot!):

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONqF9AhLQ0s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONqF9AhLQ0s[/ame]

The trimmings are re-batched, adding colorants, fragrance, etc. to make the smaller "toilet" soaps.

And lottery or not, most of us should not be going to Syria now!  This is a short clip of how Aleppo soaps are made:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTADF_FDbkw&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTADF_FD ... re=related[/ame]


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## DragonQueenHHP (Nov 7, 2012)

Hummm so my task nag the syrian members of my family to try and get more info and to smile big at my french friend to have him send me some plans plans plans hehe


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## green soap (Nov 8, 2012)

Seifenblasen said:
			
		

> It's in French (and with a southern accent to boot!):
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONqF9AhLQ0s
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing these, I really enjoyed watching them, southern French accent and all!  

It does not seem likely that we can reproduce these soaps with the tools we have available in our kitchens.  The block shapes are so nice, but would they be hard to use as a bath soap?  I would love to try one, either Aleppo or Marseille.  I will not be going to Syria anytime soon, but my mom lives not too far from Marseille.


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## Seifenblasen (Nov 8, 2012)

You can actually get both savon de Marseile and Aleppo "type" soap (made in France as well, using the same technique as in Syria) from Amazon.  With all the unrest, I feel very bad for the soapers in Syria.  They have problem harvesting olives to make oil.  And when they do get around to do so and is able to make soup, they cannot sell them, especially with all the embargoes overseas.

http://www.amazon.com/Savon-de-Marseill ... +marseille
http://www.amazon.com/Aleppo-Soap-Mariu ... B0013EMBHM

Just be aware, some people think Aleppo soap stinks to high heaven.   :twisted:


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## Seifenblasen (Nov 8, 2012)

I am also wondering if we could at least approximate the results of savon de Marseille at home doing HP with a dash of sea salt and then give it a crazy long curing time?   :roll:


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## ClaraSuds (Nov 8, 2012)

I've never tried this soap although i've seen it for sale here ($15 a bar, hence why I've never tried it). Whats so wonderful about it?


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## DragonQueenHHP (Nov 8, 2012)

green soap said:
			
		

> I will not be going to Syria anytime soon


 Yes not the place to go, my "aunts" are older so I am hoping they will have some insight  as they did not come to America until they where married


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## Seifenblasen (Nov 8, 2012)

ClaraSuds said:
			
		

> I've never tried this soap although i've seen it for sale here ($15 a bar, hence why I've never tried it). Whats so wonderful about it?



Do you mean savon de Marseille or Aleppo soap?  I have used both kinds of savon de Marseille - the original square blocks and the re-batched ones with fragrance and color, and still have a small stash in my closet (nice to have family in France).     I think people rave about it because it is a commercially available product closest to "real" soap, with all the glycerine and no SLS, etc.  On my skin it feels quite similar to my own 100% castile, but no slime.  Probably due to the long curing and (perhaps) the salt?

I have no idea how Aleppo soap feel.  I would very much like to make a small batch of HP using olive oil and bay laurel EO (happen to have a small bottle at home) and stick it in the basement for a year and see what happens.   

@DragonQueen:  I am now kicking myself because I was in Jordan a few years ago.  My driver kept saying that we should go to Syria.  I was very tempted but I did not have much time.  Back then I was not into soap even though I wanted to go to Damascus and maybe buy some steel daggers.  Wish I had gone.     I also hope if you still have any family there, that they are safe.


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## ClaraSuds (Nov 8, 2012)

Seifenblasen said:
			
		

> ClaraSuds said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Oh! Thanks I thought it must have had some mystical property since so many people were interested in replicating it.  :shock:


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## soapandwine (Nov 14, 2012)

Well... I decided to give it a go and make some Marseille soap.  I figured out the probable salinity of the Mediterranean around Marseille, found me some Mediterranean salt, and got me some olive oil from those parts of the world.  I have now been cooking the soap for over 18 hours and plan to keep it going for another 6, or whenever I feel too tired [of stirring] and decide to stop adding water.  I plan to give it a few days outside to simulate the Mistral effect.  They say Marseille smells, so when I take it outside, I might place it near the garden --a nice combination of herbs and the trash bin.  

I'll let you guys know if it turns out any good.


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## Seifenblasen (Nov 15, 2012)

> They say Marseille smells, so when I take it outside, I might place it near the garden --a nice combination of herbs and the trash bin.


What a poetic way to capture the essence of Marseille!  All we need is a few drunken sailors.   :twisted: 

Cannot wait to see your results.  Yes, please DO keep us posted!


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## muttilili (Nov 16, 2012)

I followed SoapAddicts recipe today 74% OO, 18% CO, 8%Castor.  I got it to a nice trace and poured into my molds and insulated them.  It is now 6 hours later with no signs of gel stage.  Should I be patient and give it a few days?


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## Gryfonmoon (Nov 19, 2012)

soapandwine said:
			
		

> Well... I decided to give it a go and make some Marseille soap.  I figured out the probable salinity of the Mediterranean around Marseille, found me some Mediterranean salt, and got me some olive oil from those parts of the world.  I have now been cooking the soap for over 18 hours and plan to keep it going for another 6, or whenever I feel too tired [of stirring] and decide to stop adding water.  I plan to give it a few days outside to simulate the Mistral effect.  They say Marseille smells, so when I take it outside, I might place it near the garden --a nice combination of herbs and the trash bin.
> 
> I'll let you guys know if it turns out any good.



I'm wondering something...I used to have a marine reef tank until very recently. I still have some marine salt mix (mix that mimics actual sea water). I might try to make Savon de Marseille with it to get as authentic as possible, although I'm not so sure I want to cook it for 3 days! LOL! I hope it works.


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## Sapwn (Jul 27, 2013)

Seifenblasen said:


> And according to this site, the ones made with coconut and palm oils are cream and with olive, coconut, and palm oils are green. (Note: The green color comes from the olive oil, not additives or clay or colorants. In fact, no additives are allowed other than a tiny drop of essential oil).


 


I 've read this in some web sites but I cannot understand it.

Olive oil does not give a green color. An olive oil soap is white color or light beige, but never green.


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## Sapwn (Jul 27, 2013)

Another thing that excites me about this soap is the famous savon de Marseille scent.

I know that the original formula blablabla is unscented blablabla and that there is actually no specific savon de Marseille scent blablabla, but there is a particular perfume for soaps that is called savon de Marseille. I find this perfume in many soap bars in the market called “Marseille”, even in laundry soap, powder and liquid.
And I love it!
I have used it in many of my batches and it comes out great.
　
Do you recognize that particular savon de Marseille scent, or I am alone here?
Some Italian friends use to call it “profumo di buccato” which means “scent of laudry”.


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## dagmar88 (Jul 27, 2013)

Sapwn said:


> I 've read this in some web sites but I cannot understand it.
> 
> Olive oil does not give a green color. An olive oil soap is white color or light beige, but never green.




It can, depending on the color of the olive oil used.


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## Sapwn (Jul 27, 2013)

dagmar88 said:


> It can, depending on the color of the olive oil used.


 

Could you please show me, or anybody else, a bar of 100% olive oil soap that you made and it came out green ?


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## aab1 (Jul 27, 2013)

I've bought a HUGE cube (over 21 oz!) of Savon de Marseille at a health food store 1-2 years ago and while it cleaned very well and lasted forever it smelled horrible. It also doesn't make slime like 100% olive oil soaps I've made a long time ago. I noticed they have them again, though I'm quite sure the ones they have now are much smaller than 21oz, I might buy another.


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## Sapwn (Jul 27, 2013)

aab1 said:


> ...it smelled horrible.


 

"Horrible" is how some people describe this particular scent :razz:


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## dimitris (Jul 27, 2013)

100% extra virgin OO. It remains green after 3 months, although it's more faint. 

Sapwn, where did you get this FO from?


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## Lion Of Judah (Jul 27, 2013)

Rosey said:


> Sounds awesome. I never knew they used sea salt until i read it. Sounds like it's a secret recipe
> 
> if i remember correctly from a documentary that i seen about the making of the soap that its seawater that is used . ( not doubting wgat you read , just sharing what i saw ) the link below is the making of the soap , not the exact documentary that i saw .
> [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONqF9AhLQ0s&list=TL5vJ_JI5L24s[/ame]
> ...


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## Sapwn (Jul 27, 2013)

dimitris said:


> 100% extra virgin OO. It remains green after 3 months, although it's more faint.
> 
> Sapwn, where did you get this FO from?


 


Thank you for the pic Dimitri!

I see there is a gel in the middle and the soap is getting white arround the gel.

I will ask you for another pic in about three months from now.






My 100% extra virgin OO soaps are white roblem:

What kind of OO did you use? Peloponnese, Crete, Islands ?






I bought the FO "savon de Merseille" from Orestis craft center at Piraeus avenue. 6 euros, 100ml.

Since you are a wet shaver, its similar to Arko shaving stick. If you hate it don't bother buying the FO


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## dimitris (Jul 27, 2013)

The soap colour is green, which is getting paler as time goes by. The white colour is soda ash I think, it was only evident around the edges of the soap. 

This is also not gel, the soap is just not dry yet. Picture was taken 3 days after unmolding.


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## Sapwn (Jul 27, 2013)

dimitris said:


> Picture was taken 3 days after unmolding.


 
Thank you again! :razz:


If you find time, please post a recent picture to see how it has changed these three months.


Do you remember what kind of OO you used for this batch?




This is my 100% extra virgin OO in about two months of curing.

The first weeks it was green, but now it is white/light yellow/light beige


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## Lion Of Judah (Jul 27, 2013)

has anyone soaped with just salty water, and if so did the bars become harder?  did they lather better (?) since coconut oil is the only soap that lathers in salt water.

i always as a rule of thumb put 1 tablespoon per pound of oil when i an soaping . for me it makes my soap hard .... i made a circular soap two days ago and forgot to do it and my soap came out soft. i add salt to the liquid that i am using even milk as well as teas and never had problems what so ever . when i un-mold ,the soap is firm after 4-6 weeks its love. there is a thread somewhere where someone makes soap with sea water , if i find it i will be sure to post.


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## dimitris (Jul 27, 2013)

Sapwn, this was Elais extra virgin olive oil, I don't believe they specify the exact origin.


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## Lion Of Judah (Jul 27, 2013)

Just adding this as a FYI ..... not about the soap but about copies of the soap that is sold all over
http://www.oliveoiltimes.com/olive-oil-basics/olive-oil-marseille-soap/33197


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## Ancel (Jul 27, 2013)

I make soap bars with seawater, I don't think it makes them much harder than my other bars, but it does give a lovely 'slip' and smoothness to the lather. I use the seawater for all my water amount, (33%), and use 22% co.


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## dimitris (Jul 31, 2013)

Sapwn, you were right! The colour has become light yellow/beige.


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## Sapwn (Jul 31, 2013)

dimitris said:


> Sapwn, you were right! The colour has become light yellow/beige.


 

I knew it!


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## aab1 (Aug 1, 2013)

Lion Of Judah said:


> 1 tablespoon per pound of oil



I use one pound of sea salt per pound of oil... in my salt soaps lol. They are rock hard.

I've also made 100% olive oil soaps and they have turned almost pure white after 1.5 years of curing (they were white long before 1.5 years). Even after that long they still produce an annoying slime so I don't like them for that reason. The Marseille soap never got the least bit slimy, is it the long cooking time or something else?

Is it me or they use something other than pure lye, if so could that be what gives it its horrible smell?

Wikipedia says they also use soda ash in addition to lye, is that what makes it smell horrible and is it what makes it not get slimy?

By the way it was the 600 gram Marseille cube I bought a few years ago that inspired me into making soap again (I even got cube molds because I liked the cube shape of the Marseille soap, though mine are nowhere near 600 grams). I had only done a few soaps for gifts and myself a year or so before.

Thanks


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## jenneelk (Aug 1, 2013)

Lion Of Judah said:


> Rosey said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds awesome. I never knew they used sea salt until i read it. Sounds like it's a secret recipe
> ...


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## Lion Of Judah (Aug 1, 2013)

jenneelk said:


> Lion Of Judah said:
> 
> 
> > Did you ever figure out the green color? I use ground kelp (sea plant) and get a very nice green.[/QUOTE
> ...


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## zolveria (Jul 20, 2015)

This is an old thread however when taking ocean water seaweed and such may be a reason to the greeness.  Is the sea water filtered.  I would assume not. Since in old time she source of water was the ocean.  This come from my family old way of. Cooking from seas water. They grabbed water oceanic and cooked there  food in it.

This is and old thread. 70 percent OO. COOKED IN A VAT.  THE SALT WATER US ADDED TO CREATE HARDNESS YES BUT IT WAS THE ONLY. MEANS IF WATER.  FRANCE WAS. NOTORIOUS FOR BAD WATER SYSTEM. PLEASE ADJUST RECIPE  TO HP SOAP BY ADDING THE THEY SEA REAL. SEA WATER WITH  ALL. IT FINE TRIMMING TO THE SOAP.  THIS MEANS PLANKTON SEE HELP. ETC. THIS WILL. INTERN GIVE U THAT GREEN COLOR. AND CREAT HARD BAR HARD.  72 oo 20 coco the rest palm  add sea salt to lye and HP remember the amount of water you added so as the soao dry you can replace a portion slowly cook. Slow crock pot.  Thanks. Guys let me know how. It turns out.


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