# Hydrogenated soy



## plumpvalley (Feb 19, 2019)

I am looking for a soy wax to use. I have only read about AKO soy 415 or golden foods 100% soy 415 . Does anyone know if wholesale supplies Crafters choice (candelilla) 100% pure soy be subbed. It is advertised as cosmetic grade.


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## shunt2011 (Feb 19, 2019)

Candelilla is not soy wax.  It's harder than soy.  It's closer to Beeswax.  But I'm not sure exactly what your question is as you have it listed like it's soy so I may be misunderstanding.


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## plumpvalley (Feb 19, 2019)

Oh, oh, you are right. Searched site for soy. I read resuts wrong.  I read 100% and skipped. That product is good for lip balm makes sense too.  Soy 415 is the only soy product made useable for soap?


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## Dean (Feb 19, 2019)

I suppose that it could be called something else. Just confirm with the vendor/manufacturer that its 100% hydrgenated soy w/o additives.


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## plumpvalley (Feb 19, 2019)

Thank you.


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## earlene (Feb 19, 2019)

The 415 wax is called by other names by some vendors.  I believe the original vendor who gave it that name is Golden Foods or Golden Wax or something like that, but am not sure that is correct.  What you want is hydrogenated soy wax with a melting point somewhere within the range of about 120 - 125° F.  I have included a couple of links for suitable vendors.  I have used the Akosoy product from Amazon with good results in my soap.

Golden Wax 415 soy wax from Candle Science

Akosoy 415 soy wax from Amazon


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## plumpvalley (Feb 19, 2019)

Thank you for the links. Soy is a staric acid alternative to Palm oil. I agree with the substitute reason. Can I ask you what percentage you use. I've read anywhere between 3% - 16% per batch.  I am asking so I calculate how much to buy to save on per oz. price


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## Dean (Feb 19, 2019)

plumpvalley said:


> Thank you for the links. Soy is a staric acid alternative to Palm oil. I agree with the substitute reason. Can I ask you what percentage you use. I've read anywhere between 3% - 16% per batch.  I am asking so I calculate how much to buy to save on per oz. price



I use 40% cuz I like a hard bar.  Decide ur desired hardness factor in the calc and adjust accordingly .


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## plumpvalley (Feb 19, 2019)

I spelled stearic wrong. 
Wow, you must go thru it! So, how much CO do you use? If you don't mind me asking. Read that is good to offset the soy with solubility and lather.


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## Dean (Feb 19, 2019)

This is my recipe.


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## plumpvalley (Feb 19, 2019)

Dean, thank you so much for sharing your recipe. And, thank you for the website link. 
Nice.


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## KiwiMoose (Feb 20, 2019)

I use 20% soy wax 415 in my soap, along with 20% - 15% coconut oil depending on my recipe. I also use about 10 - 15% Shea butter, and then the rest is soft oils ( usually 20% olive, 15% rice bran, 10-15% either avocado or apricot kernel, and 5 - 10% castor)


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## earlene (Feb 20, 2019)

I tend to use at least 30% soy wax, but that is not written in stone.  I am still open to experimentation with different oil mixtures.  I am not particularly fond of CO, so don't use it all recipes.  Within a soy soap recipe, I have used it as low as 10% and as high as 16% depending on the other oils in the mix.


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## SaltedFig (Feb 20, 2019)

earlene said:


> The 415 wax is called by other names by some vendors.  I believe the original vendor who gave it that name is Golden Foods or Golden Wax or something like that, but am not sure that is correct.  What you want is hydrogenated soy wax with a melting point somewhere within the range of about 120 - 125° F.  I have included a couple of links for suitable vendors.  I have used the Akosoy product from Amazon with good results in my soap.
> 
> Golden Wax 415 soy wax from Candle Science
> 
> Akosoy 415 soy wax from Amazon



The Golden Wax range of waxes (GW in GW415) was originally made by Golden Foods.
The brand was sold to the American company, AAK, in 2011
(https://www.candyindustry.com/articles/84027-aak-acquires-golden-foods-golden-brands)

The wax range named "Akosoy" is also owned by AAK (the GoldenFoods acquisition gave them 2 manufacturing sites) 
GoldenWax 415 (GW415) is labelled Akosoy415 on the 50lb boxes, according to Candlescience
(https://www.candlescience.com/wax/golden-brands-415-soy-wax)

The American manufacturer of the Golden Brand soy wax, AAK, mentions on their website that a non-GMO version is available
(They are a bulk manufacturer - smaller orders are likely to be directed to a wholesaler/retailer/distributer such as CandleScience or similar)
https://aak.com/applications/technical-products/candles/golden-wax/


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## plumpvalley (Feb 21, 2019)

Thank you so much for all of your responses. That is what my next question was going to be. If there are any non GMO.  I am not anti hybrid although I seek to avoid them. I am in the middle of the farming here in Wisconsin and soy is heavily sprayed with lots of Dupont dangerous chemicals.


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## earlene (Feb 22, 2019)

The soy I buy to eat does not come from here.  In fact, even though tons of soy beans are grown here, none of it grown for human consumption, which really surprised me when I moved here.  Finding soybeans for sale anywhere around here is nigh on to impossible, in fact.  Apparently in this part of mid-west soy beans are not considered people food as much as it was where I come from.  It's not even sold in the health food stores around here, at least not the ones I shop.   So I stock up when I travel West.  I sometimes make my own tofu using soy beans, so buying soy beans that haven't been drenched in pesticides  has always been a concern for me.

Here is an interesting report on nonGMO soybeans planting in the US:  https://non-gmoreport.com/articles/mar09/farmers_planting_non-gmo_soybeans.php

As far as non-GMO soy wax.  Some say there is no such thing, but I do believe that this will change as the trend to move away from genetically modified soy beans continues, so I expect some of you will see it in the future.   However, that may take some decades and I may not be around long enough to benefit.  So for now, I use what is available.

Info from EcoSoy re: non-GMO soy wax:  https://www.ecosoyabrands.com/supportresource.html#organic-gmo


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## plumpvalley (Feb 23, 2019)

I am probably not far behind you. I may not see it either. A very encouraging article, thank you. 
I have another question. It may have already been answered somewhere. Has anyone ever tried adding blueing to a hard coconut bar for laundry?

The kind that would be shredded to mix with borax or whatever.


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## KiwiMoose (Feb 26, 2019)

The weird thing is, on the candle creations website (in NZ) it says for GW415, GMO: No.  the fact sheet appears to be directly from Golden Wax. Do you think this is true? I sincerely doubt it, but if it is, then YAY!

ETA: sorry it actually says GMO free: Yes.  https://www.candlecreations.co.nz/product/soy-wax-gw415/


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## SaltedFig (Feb 26, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> The weird thing is, on the candle creations website (in NZ) it says for GW415, GMO: No.  the fact sheet appears to be directly from Golden Wax. Do you think this is true? I sincerely doubt it, but if it is, then YAY!
> 
> ETA: sorry it actually says GMO free: Yes.  https://www.candlecreations.co.nz/product/soy-wax-gw415/



That would be a bit exciting, if they are importing the GMO free version!
Can you call them to check?


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## plumpvalley (Feb 26, 2019)

Yay! Yes, if only.


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## Andrew (Apr 8, 2019)

plumpvalley said:


> Thank you for the links. Soy is a staric acid alternative to Palm oil. I agree with the substitute reason. Can I ask you what percentage you use. I've read anywhere between 3% - 16% per batch.  I am asking so I calculate how much to buy to save on per oz. price



415 is a very poor alternate to palm stearic acid.  what you want is fully hydrogenated soy wax which is  87% stearic acid and 11% palmitic acid.  If you want an alternative to palm oil then tallow, cocoa, koku, and illipe, and lard will be very close.  415 has a fatty acid profile similar to shea butter and will act very similar to softer nut butters.


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## KiwiMoose (Apr 8, 2019)

Andrew said:


> 415 is a very poor alternate to palm stearic acid.  what you want is fully hydrogenated soy wax which is  87% stearic acid and 11% palmitic acid.  If you want an alternative to palm oil then tallow, cocoa, koku, and illipe, and lard will be very close.  415 has a fatty acid profile similar to shea butter and will act very similar to softer nut butters.


I don’t think it is a poor alternative. I use it at 20% and it creates a nice firm bar. Similar to cocoa butter yes, but a fraction of the cost. If cocoa butter was cheap, I’d use it, but it’s not. I can buy a whole kilo of SW here for the same price as about 250g if cocoa butter.


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## Dawni (Apr 8, 2019)

I know this isn't what you asked.. But in case finding the pure 415 is difficult for you, like it is for me, @Steve85569 has tried the 444 (98% soy, 2% soy based additive) in soap and doesn't see so much of a difference in the output compared to 415 so I'm trying the 444 also (hopefully) today. 

Problem is I've tried and can find nowhere that says what that additive is so I'm not really sure what it probably does in soap but I'm banking on the fact that it's only 2% n shouldn't be an issue (I hope).

But if you have access to the 100% pure kind, go for it and let us know how it goes  

There's a thread called soy wax users if you feel like reading.


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## penelopejane (Apr 9, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> I don’t think it is a poor alternative. I use it at 20% and it creates a nice firm bar. Similar to cocoa butter yes, but a fraction of the cost. If cocoa butter was cheap, I’d use it, but it’s not. I can buy a whole kilo of SW here for the same price as about 250g if cocoa butter.


Kiwimoose,
I think what Andrew is trying to say is that if someone is trying to substitute something for palm oil in their soap they should be looking for something of the equivalent or better stearic acid and palmitic acid profile.
Palm oil has 44% palmitic acid and 5% stearic acid
Fully hydrogenated soy has 11% palmitic acid and 87% stearic acid.
415 soy wax has 9% palmitic and 15% stearic acid if it is 27% partially hydrogenated.
Stearic acid has 99% stearic acid.
Cocoa butter has 28% palmitic and 33% stearic.

Cocoa butter looks great on paper but it is very expensive here, too.
Stearic acid is very cheap and doesn't take much to change your soap profile but you still need basic oils in your recipe.
So 20% 415 soy wax in a recipe is cheap way to make a hard soap (if it is cheaper than oils) but it will not be as hard as palm oil or fully hydrogenated soy wax.

Here is a 100% hydrogenated soy wax you may be able to get:
https://allseasonswaxcompany.com.au/pure-soy-s100
In NZ it is available here:
https://www.candlecreations.co.nz/

But, in my opinion there are a lot of other things to consider in soap than just hardness.


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## KiwiMoose (Apr 9, 2019)

Oh I see.  Well for me - I'm not using palm nor animal fats, so it's pretty much my only hardness factor apart from the butters which are too expensive to use in large amounts. 
Thanks so much for the other link @penelopejane  - KiwiSoap has just messaged me with great enthusiasm - not sure how we missed that ( unless it's new?).  Will order it next time to try it out.  The melt point is 52 degrees, whereas the 415 is 49-52 degrees.  I guess it shouldn't make too much difference.


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## penelopejane (Apr 9, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> Oh I see.  Well for me - I'm not using palm nor animal fats, so it's pretty much my only hardness factor apart from the butters which are too expensive to use in large amounts.
> Thanks so much for the other link @penelopejane  - KiwiSoap has just messaged me with great enthusiasm - not sure how we missed that ( unless it's new?).  Will order it next time to try it out.  The melt point is 52 degrees, whereas the 415 is 49-52 degrees.  I guess it shouldn't make too much difference.


I only just found it. I thought I had posted it somewhere but maybe not.  
It's going to congeal at 34*C so you may have to soap a little warmer if you generally soap at room temp.
They also have a beeswax and soy mix.

I know I say this all the time but OO could also be considered a hard oil. The soap calcs don't recognise it as such because it takes time to harden but it does harden.


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## KiwiMoose (Apr 9, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> I only just found it. I thought I had posted it somewhere but maybe not.
> It's going to congeal at 34*C so you may have to soap a little warmer if you generally soap at room temp.
> They also have a beeswax and soy mix.
> 
> I know I say this all the time but OO could also be considered a hard oil. The soap calcs don't recognise it as such because it takes time to harden but it does harden.


Yes - I include OO at 20% in all my recipes. It also helps to slow trace, which I like because it offsets my other fast moving oils.


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## KiwiSoap (Apr 9, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> Here is a 100% hydrogenated soy wax you may be able to get:
> https://allseasonswaxcompany.com.au/pure-soy-s100
> In NZ it is available here:
> https://www.candlecreations.co.nz/product/soy-wax-seasons-s100/


Thanks for sharing this *PenelopeJane*, I swear I'd checked before but not seen that (I'll blame it on their search which is a little funky, though I was probably not looking for the right thing ). GW415 has served well so far, but this gives rise to more experiments to try.


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## KiwiMoose (Apr 9, 2019)

Actually - I think we did look at this a while back, but I was put off by the higher pour temp - about 10 degrees higher than GW415.  This means I would have to soap a lot hotter than I do ( I think). The GW415 does not state its congealing temp.


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## Andrew (Apr 9, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> Kiwimoose,
> I think what Andrew is trying to say is that if someone is trying to substitute something for palm oil in their soap they should be looking for something of the equivalent or better stearic acid and palmitic acid profile.
> Palm oil has 44% palmitic acid and 5% stearic acid
> Fully hydrogenated soy has 11% palmitic acid and 87% stearic acid.
> ...


Golden brands has never, and will not share the fatty acid break down of their products.  415 is also not 27% hydrogenated.  It is somewhere between 30 and 35%.  Although 27% is the closest approximation in the lye calculator, it will be of by a bit.  The sap value for all the soys is the same (192) so there is no issue with how much lye to put in.  

The cheapest hardening agents I can think of are fully hydrogenated soy, fully hydrogenated castor, and beeswax.


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## penelopejane (Apr 9, 2019)

Andrew said:


> Golden brands has never, and will not share the fatty acid break down of their products.  415 is also not 27% hydrogenated.  It is somewhere between 30 and 35%.  Although 27% is the closest approximation in the lye calculator, it will be of by a bit.  The sap value for all the soys is the same (192) so there is no issue with how much lye to put in.
> 
> The cheapest hardening agents I can think of are fully hydrogenated soy, fully hydrogenated castor, and beeswax.


Thanks for the more accurate info.
Stearic acid is pretty cheap. 
Beeswax is even more expensive than cocoa butter here and you only use a fraction of the amount. Let’s hope the soy I listed above works well.


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## Steve85569 (Apr 9, 2019)

Dawni said:


> Problem is I've tried and can find nowhere that says what that additive is so I'm not really sure what it probably does in soap but I'm banking on the fact that it's only 2% n shouldn't be an issue (I hope).



It is a "soy based additive" according to what I have been able to find. That's why I was willing to try it. 
Since it is 2% they are not required to state what it is exactly and can claim some sort of proprietal need for secrecy.


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## Andrew (Apr 9, 2019)

Steve85569 said:


> It is a "soy based additive" according to what I have been able to find. That's why I was willing to try it.
> Since it is 2% they are not required to state what it is exactly and can claim some sort of proprietal need for secrecy.


the additive is monoglycerides.


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## Dawni (Apr 9, 2019)

Steve85569 said:


> It is a "soy based additive" according to what I have been able to find. That's why I was willing to try it.
> Since it is 2% they are not required to state what it is exactly and can claim some sort of proprietal need for secrecy.


Yeah that's all I found too.

@Andrew I tried to Google that and I think it's too late and my brain isn't understanding anything. What would monoglycerides do to soap at 2% and just for discussion, if it were a higher percentage? Do you know?


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## Andrew (Apr 9, 2019)

Dawni said:


> Yeah that's all I found too.
> 
> @Andrew I tried to Google that and I think it's too late and my brain isn't understanding anything. What would monoglycerides do to soap at 2% and just for discussion, if it were a higher percentage? Do you know?



Monoglycerides are a form of fatty acid, along with triglycerides and diglycerides. Monoglycerides occur naturally in some foods and are added to others to improve texture, quality, and shelf life.


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## earlene (Apr 9, 2019)

*Dawni*, see this link:  https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/monoglyceride

Notice that "Monoglycerides are dispersible in water only in the presence of co-emulsifiers (sodium salts of fatty acids)."  Therefore, I don't see that it would do anything to soap other than disperse, since soap is, by definition, salts of fatty acids.  Although that article author (excerpt from a book) does go on to say that distilled monoglycerides are useful for aeration in some situations, so maybe it would add some volume to the soap.  Although at only 2%, I don't think it would do anything noticeable.


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## Lin19687 (Apr 9, 2019)

Before you buy a big quantity you might want to do some testers.  Some don't like Sow or a 'wax' in soap.
Would hate to see you buy a huge amount only to find out you don't like the feel Wax gives.


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## Dawni (Apr 9, 2019)

Lin19687 said:


> Before you buy a big quantity you might want to do some testers.  Some don't like Sow or a 'wax' in soap.
> Would hate to see you buy a huge amount only to find out you don't like the feel Wax gives.


Yep, I bought 300 grams only for testing.

Yes @earlene, was thinking the same thing that 2% should be negligible.


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