# Question About Solid Dish Soap



## MysPhoenix (Jun 11, 2021)

Am I correct in my understanding that to make a solid bar of dish soap, you just don't have a SF, or at least not a very high one? How much of a role do the chosen oils play? I mostly see others using 100% CO but I have also seen one or two that is 100% OO. My plan was to use 100% CO, with only a 1% SF just so I have a little cushion even if it is tiny. Is it okay to add scent to it? Like Orange 10x EO because I like citrusy dish soaps - I would use Lemon EO if I weren't out completely and it's okay to do so.


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## Quanta (Jun 11, 2021)

The reason for using coconut oil, is its high cleansing value. Basically, it strips oil which is what you want in a dish soap. Personally I wouldn't use olive oil unless it's all you have.

Regarding citrus EO in CP soap, it tends to not stick at all so it would be wasted. I wouldn't use a synthetic fragrance oil in soap meant for washing food contact surfaces, so you may want to consider just leaving it unscented.


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## GemstonePony (Jun 11, 2021)

Your NaOH isn't 100% pure, and it degrades with contact with air, so your SF will always be slightly higher than calculated. Also, a slight but truly negative SF will even out over time as NaOH reacts with air.


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## AliOop (Jun 11, 2021)

I've had pretty good luck with folded lemon EO and folded orange EO in my 100% CO, 0%SF HP dish soap. It isn't strong, but there is definitely some scent there. 

It's one time that I definitely prefer HP, since I can add the EO after the cook (so the scent sticks longer) and because I don't care about having a perfectly smooth dish cake.


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## dibbles (Jun 11, 2021)

I just packed two bars made with 10x Orange EO into a donation box. The soap was made in October of 2020 and while certainly not strong, the scent was still pleasant. @Mobjack Bay has made a few posts about using orange wax which seems to stick pretty well. You might check that out.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 11, 2021)

SHORT STORY:
Here's how I found the _best dish washing soap_. It doesn't matter which soap you use, just fill the sink with warm to hot water. Throw in a cuddle of salt (as much as fits in the cup of your hand); swish it around to dissolve it; then "wash" your bar of soap in it until you have copious lather.  The water is now ready to wash dishes, even pots and pans, squeaky clean.

I found this out while washing batches of 2-week old soap to "smooth" them. I learned to do that from a Martha Stewart episode where she was taught to make Castile Soap.  I do it fairly often but not always. I generally have 16 bars in a batch. After washing that many bars, I have lots of lather. I leave it in the sink to wash whatever dishes I use that day.

TIP:When using bar soap, whether for hair, laundry or dishes, it's important to rinse thoroughly in cold water to remove any soap residue.


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## MysPhoenix (Jun 12, 2021)

Quanta said:


> The reason for using coconut oil, is its high cleansing value. Basically, it strips oil which is what you want in a dish soap. Personally I wouldn't use olive oil unless it's all you have.
> 
> Regarding citrus EO in CP soap, it tends to not stick at all so it would be wasted. I wouldn't use a synthetic fragrance oil in soap meant for washing food contact surfaces, so you may want to consider just leaving it unscented.



Thank you for explaining! I primarily HP. I did 2 batches of CP soap this past week (my first time) and I am pleased!
I had no plans to use FOs on it, I was just thinking a citrusy scent would be pleasant/nice. 



GemstonePony said:


> Your NaOH isn't 100% pure, and it degrades with contact with air, so your SF will always be slightly higher than calculated. Also, a slight but truly negative SF will even out over time as NaOH reacts with air.


So even though the bottles says 100%, it isn't really 100%?? I also did not know NaOH would dissipate due to reacting with air. I am definitely going to research these things tomorrow! Thank you.



AliOop said:


> I've had pretty good luck with folded lemon EO and folded orange EO in my 100% CO, 0%SF HP dish soap. It isn't strong, but there is definitely some scent there.
> 
> It's one time that I definitely prefer HP, since I can add the EO after the cook (so the scent sticks longer) and because I don't care about having a perfectly smooth dish cake.



I planned on HP for this, if for no other reason than the high amount of CO. I have volcano paranoia. 



dibbles said:


> I just packed two bars made with 10x Orange EO into a donation box. The soap was made in October of 2020 and while certainly not strong, the scent was still pleasant. @Mobjack Bay has made a few posts about using orange wax which seems to stick pretty well. You might check that out.



Nice! Thank you!



Zany_in_CO said:


> SHORT STORY:
> Here's how I found the _best dish washing soap_. It doesn't matter which soap you use, just fill the sink with warm to hot water. Throw in a cuddle of salt (as much as fits in the cup of your hand); swish it around to dissolve it; then "wash" your bar of soap in it until you have copious lather.  The water is now ready to wash dishes, even pots and pans, squeaky clean.
> 
> I found this out while washing batches of 2-week old soap to "smooth" them. I learned to do that from a Martha Stewart episode where she was taught to make Castile Soap.  I do it fairly often but not always. I generally have 16 bars in a batch. After washing that many bars, I have lots of lather. I leave it in the sink to wash whatever dishes I use that day.
> ...



That is really dang clever! I am definitely going to do this tomorrow, lol. Thank you so much for the "life/soap hack"!


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## GemstonePony (Jun 12, 2021)

MysPhoenix said:


> So even though the bottles says 100%, it isn't really 100%?? I also did not know NaOH would dissipate due to reacting with air.


At the time of manufacturing it might be close, but since it reacts to air, that percentage gets lower over time and also as the amount of air in the container increases. I think somebody around here had a tutorial for calculating lye purity, but I don't remember who. Anyways, I usually wouldn't worry about it unless your lye is old or clumpy. If your lye is reasonably new and it's been in a full container, it's probably close to that 100% mark. Just know your SF may be higher than selected as time goes on and you use it. If you're doing small batches and your scale isn't super accurate, you're probably rounding the lye measurements down and increasing your SF a bit anyways, so a bit more for most soaps isn't usually a big deal. 
Setting the calculator for a -1% may not be truly negative particularly for a mostly empty bottle of lye, and even if it's a little negative it will usually cure out in a few months because the lye will degrade in an open environment. That's the pro and con of working with such a reactive substance.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 12, 2021)

MysPhoenix said:


> That is really dang clever! I am definitely going to do this tomorrow, lol. Thank you so much for the "life/soap hack"!


My pleasure! 


GemstonePony said:


> I think somebody around here had a tutorial for calculating lye purity, but I don't remember who.


@DeeAnna 's *Soapy Stuff*, of course! 

*NaOH or KOH Purity Check*


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## earlene (Jun 12, 2021)

MysPhoenix said:


> So even though the bottles says 100%, it isn't really 100%?? I also did not know NaOH would dissipate due to reacting with air. I am definitely going to research these things tomorrow! Thank you.





GemstonePony said:


> At the time of manufacturing it might be close, but since it reacts to air, that percentage gets lower over time and also as the amount of air in the container increases. I think somebody around here had a tutorial for calculating lye purity, but I don't remember who.



Part of the issue is that lye purity to the manufacturer may also mean, how much non-lye material (other metals, or other contaminants, for example) may be mixed in with the actual lye.  So when I buy 100% lye at the hardware store, it does not necessarily mean that no air got into the container during packaging to interact with the lye (before the seal was secured on the bottle).  What it means is that the manufacturer packaged lye and only lye (no other metal ions, or whatever else might be added to lye for other products).

To the soap maker, however, lye purity is more along the lines of 'how much water has this lye leached out of the surrounding air'?

More about lye 'purity' and how to test for it:






						NaOH or KOH purity check | Soapy Stuff
					

Classic Bells restores antique sleigh bells and manufactures bell home decor. Wholesale. Retail.




					classicbells.com
				




Here is *another thread* (of many threads) that discussed lye purity and the first post has an example of a non-pure lye and what other contaminants were listed on the container. In that thread there is discussion about the perception of purity from the soapmaker's standpoint versus the manufacturer's point of view.


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## MysPhoenix (Jun 16, 2021)

earlene said:


> Part of the issue is that lye purity to the manufacturer may also mean, how much non-lye material (other metals, or other contaminants, for example) may be mixed in with the actual lye.  So when I buy 100% lye at the hardware store, it does not necessarily mean that no air got into the container during packaging to interact with the lye (before the seal was secured on the bottle).  What it means is that the manufacturer packaged lye and only lye (no other metal ions, or whatever else might be added to lye for other products).
> 
> To the soap maker, however, lye purity is more along the lines of 'how much water has this lye leached out of the surrounding air'?
> 
> ...


Thank you!!


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## The_Phoenix (Jun 17, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Throw in a cuddle of salt…


Methinks @Zany_in_CO has been spending too much time in the baby bunny thread.


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## LynetteO (Aug 6, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> SHORT STORY:
> Here's how I found the _best dish washing soap_. It doesn't matter which soap you use, just fill the sink with warm to hot water. Throw in a cuddle of salt (as much as fits in the cup of your hand); swish it around to dissolve it; then "wash" your bar of soap in it until you have copious lather.  The water is now ready to wash dishes, even pots and pans, squeaky clean.
> 
> I found this out while washing batches of 2-week old soap to "smooth" them. I learned to do that from a Martha Stewart episode where she was taught to make Castile Soap.  I do it fairly often but not always. I generally have 16 bars in a batch. After washing that many bars, I have lots of lather. I leave it in the sink to wash whatever dishes I use that day.
> ...


Thanks 4 Sharing! Always dishing out nuggets of wisdom.


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## violets2217 (Aug 6, 2021)

My solid dish soap has always been 100% coconut oil at 0%SF with 3% Sweet Orange EO. I just made a loaf of my laundry bar ( same 100% CO 0% SF) with an odor eliminator FO and I'm about to try @Zany_in_CO trick with the salt with it. I do love my solid dish soap!


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## KiwiMoose (Aug 6, 2021)

Try lemongrass EO or litsea for better stick ability


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## The_Phoenix (Aug 6, 2021)

Funny thing. I use any solid bar of soap I've made to use as dish soap. It dawned on me one day that the soap on my tools/bowls/buckets/etc. did a fine job all on its own to clean everything. So I just started to use whatever soap I had by my kitchen sink. I use a green scrubby, so all I do is rub the scrubby along the soap, build up a nice lather, and wash my dishes. I mostly use soap that was a design fail, often unscented, and made primarily with lard (which makes it a cheaper bar of soap). And I soap with a low sf% anyway, so it works just fine for me just the way it is.

Plus, the soap gets my stainless steel sink so sparkly!


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## Susie (Aug 7, 2021)

I have hard water, and even when I use EDTA in the soap, I am stuck with a white film on my dishes from hand made soap. I just use the stuff in the bottles now and wear gloves (when I remember).


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## The_Phoenix (Aug 7, 2021)

Susie said:


> I have hard water, and even when I use EDTA in the soap, I am stuck with a white film on my dishes from hand made soap. I just use the stuff in the bottles now and wear gloves (when I remember).


Have you tried sodium citrate? I have very hard water and use SC and my soap scum issues have disappeared. I use it at 1%.


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## lica (Nov 8, 2021)

maybe this is a stupid question but.... is natural dish soap also more suitable for sensitive skin, compared to commercial dish soap? 
i have to wear gloves everytime i do dishes (commercial dish soap irritates my hands) and dishwashing gloves breaks easily so i changed it quite often and i feel guilty...


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## KiwiMoose (Nov 8, 2021)

lica said:


> maybe this is a stupid question but.... is natural dish soap also more suitable for sensitive skin, compared to commercial dish soap?
> i have to wear gloves everytime i do dishes (commercial dish soap irritates my hands) and dishwashing gloves breaks easily so i changed it quite often and i feel guilty...


It's very hard to say.  It depends what you are using currently - most likely a synthetic detergent.  Some people's hands prefer synthetic detergent to 'natural' saponified oils, but whichever you use has been formulated to wash dishes, not hands, so bear in mind that they are high on cleansing numbers and low on 'skin softening' numbers.
Soap aside - your skin may just not like being immersed in water for so long.


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## gww (Nov 8, 2021)

My dad breaks out in a rash if he uses antibacterial dish soap.
Cheers
gww


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## lica (Nov 9, 2021)

ah okay thank you @KiwiMoose so i guess i'll give it a try to find out 
since it's 0 SF.... can i try making a small batch with say 50gr or 100gr of coconut oil? or thats too little and i still need min around 500gr of oil like body bar?


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## KiwiMoose (Nov 9, 2021)

lica said:


> ah okay thank you @KiwiMoose so i guess i'll give it a try to find out
> since it's 0 SF.... can i try making a small batch with say 50gr or 100gr of coconut oil? or thats too little and i still need min around 500gr of oil like body bar?


No - try a small batch to see how you like it.  Just bear in mind that 100% CO will move very quickly so making a slightly bigger batch will be easier to work with ( in terms of fluidity while mixing).  Maybe try 300? That will give you two big or three average sized bars.


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## GemstonePony (Nov 9, 2021)

lica said:


> ah okay thank you @KiwiMoose so i guess i'll give it a try to find out
> since it's 0 SF.... can i try making a small batch with say 50gr or 100gr of coconut oil? or thats too little and i still need min around 500gr of oil like body bar?


I would go with 100g or more, particularly if you have to round the lye measurement to the nearest measurable amount as most of us do. For dish soap, you'll want to round up so it's a slightly negative SF, which should cure out to a 0%SF over the month or two that the bar is losing water. The less material you're starting with, the smaller the margin of error on measurements.

Also, coconut soap can harden extremely fast, and heat up in the mold (brick in less than 4 hours). You will most likely not be able to cut it into bars, so you will need to use individual molds. If your molds aren't very big or you don't have very many, a small batch is ok.

One more note: small batches can saponify much more slowly than medium-sized ones. Not entirely sure why that is, but if you go too small, it may take you the better part of an hour to stir it to emulsion (it might thicken in a hurry once you get it there). I recommend making a batch big enough to use an electric (or battery-operated) mixer to speed things up, just in case the mixture doesn't make much progress progress towards emulsion in the first 5-10 minutes.


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## lica (Nov 11, 2021)

Thank you so much @KiwiMoose and @GemstonePony ! I'll update in around a month after my dish soap is cured


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## bashful (Jan 5, 2022)

The_Phoenix said:


> Have you tried sodium citrate? I have very hard water and use SC and my soap scum issues have disappeared. I use it at 1%.


Did Susie try this? I also have a problem with really bad water spotting on dishes.


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