# Mica question (s)



## Catscankim (Aug 22, 2020)

I keep looking for answers and the more i look, the more confused i get.

I apparently have everything wrong when it comes to coloring soap with mica because my colors just dont turn out as planned. They are muted or look an entirely different color than anticipated (Blues look green or gray, reds look pink). Unless of course i am following a specific recipe and it tells me EXACTLY what to do. But now I am trying my own creativity...and i am hating my creations.

When measuring out into your soap batter, do you use ppo, or parts per pound of batter?

Also, if you measure out 1tsp of mica to your batter, is that one prepared tsp? Or 1tsp mica, then mix it in your oil and use the whole thing?


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## dibbles (Aug 22, 2020)

I disperse my mica in oil, and I add until I get the color I want. I know this isn’t very helpful, but you will get a feel for how much to mix after awhile. I found this to be helpful, and might give you a starting guideline.


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## Catscankim (Aug 22, 2020)

dibbles said:


> I disperse my mica in oil, and I add until I get the color I want. I know this isn’t very helpful, but you will get a feel for how much to mix after awhile. I found this to be helpful, and might give you a starting guideline.



That was actually totally helpful. I think i have been focusing too much on measurements.


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## Todd Ziegler (Aug 22, 2020)

Some  will change when you add them to your batter. I just did a lime green mica and it turned light olive color and I could have added more mica to make it look better but I didn't. Most of my micas turn out well with just 1-2 tsp per pound of oil. 

Also if you put your soap through gell phase it will make them brighter and if you don't gell your soap, you will get pastel or muted colors. The color of your oils and batter will also effect your mica color in your soap.


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## cerelife (Aug 23, 2020)

Both Mad Micas and Nurture micas provide pics of the end result in cured CP soap, so that's a great jumping off point! I've always assumed that the measurements provided were added to directly to the soap batter and this assumption has worked well for me so far.
Personally I add mica directly to my soap batter for swirls/stripes/etc. because just mixing it with oil doesn't give me an accurate representation of the color dilution in the batter. I start small and work up to the color I want. When I get the color I'm trying to achieve I notate the amount of batter and the amount of mica used so I don't have to guess the next time. I also take pictures of my cured soaps as this is helpful to me if I want a variation of that color. 
If I'm doing a single color soap I add my micas to my soft oils keeping in mind that the color is going to be diluted by the hard oils and the lye water. I've made that mistake more than once before I figured out why my lovely colors went from fantastic to 'meh' in the cured bar. For my personal recipes I now know that I have to go 2 to 3 shades darker to achieve the color I was aiming for, but you'll have to play around with your recipe to find that sweet spot.


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## cerelife (Aug 23, 2020)

I just wanted to add that when I'm doing swirls or stripes I split off my batter at emulsion - I do NOT wait for light trace!


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## Catscankim (Aug 23, 2020)

Thanks everybody!


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## Anstarx (Aug 23, 2020)

If you buy your mica from soap suppliers they usually have pics of  its finished look. However, your recipe and oil can also affect the look. Oils like rice bran can make your soap to have a yellow tinge and I found my EVOO to do the same. Red is also just a very difficult color to get right. Brick red, pink, and fuchsia-ish red are easy to get but a red red is very hard.
The micas I bought don't come with result pics so I made my own test batches to see how they behave. I weigh all my colorants in grams and calculate their percentage to the whole batter so I know how to achieve the same shade next time. I prefer it to using volumes.
I usually add mica directly to the batter and blend using a hand held frother. If I want a very thin batter and need to avoid overblending then I mix the mica with glycerin and water then blend by hand.


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## LilianNoir (Aug 26, 2020)

I share your frustrations (once again, XD) @Catscankim and I've found that in my last few batches if I mixed up the max amount and kept adding until I got the color I wanted, it helped. Looking at the color of micas disbursed in oil helps, but that will be muted when added to the batter. 

I did realize that for many of my micas (mad micas) the recommended amount was 1-2 tsn per pound of oils. So I could use up to 2tsn ppo when before I thought 1tsn was the limit. 
Once I realized I could (effectively) add twice as much as i was, I started using 2tsn/ppo to calculate my mica if i wanted bright, and used 1tsn/ppo for muted/pastels. That's really helped me to achieve colors closer to what I wanted. 
I also have found that my beloved shea recipe tends toward yellow when it's batter but lightens up quite a bit once hardened and as it cures. It was quite a shock when what was supposed to be a pretty purple was brown, and then, 2 days later, a lovely lavender again. So I guess some of it is experience with your recipes too. 

One problem I've run into, is the amount of oil used to disburse my micas is bumping up my SF% to the point where my last batch was a bit softer than I expected it to be.
I've been using the "1tsn mica disbursed in 1tblspn light oil" I keep reading everywhere and that always seemed like a lot, but it's what I kept reading over and over. And if you do even 1tsn of mica (disbursed into 1tblspn oil), for every pound of oils, that's an extra .5oz of oil. .5oz out of 16.5oz (the pound plus the mica oil) is nearly 3% of the total oils!

Well, my last recipe, I wound up using nearly 3tablespoons of sweet almond for a 43oz (2.6lb) batch.

Part of the problem I think is that some of the tutorials I'd read (glares at Brambleberry) mention using oil to disburse, but don't include that in their ingredient list and are unclear if they include it in their lye calculation.
When I checked and did calculations, they ARE including that oil in their lye calculation but don't say as much.

Some websites/books/sources just recommend using some of your base oils, or reserving some of your base oils to mix micas in , and that seems a better idea, but I see a lot of tutorial videos from really prominent/popular youtubers that just seem to use a little extra oil and don't mention it.

Maybe I'm missing something, but this is something that has been confusing me for a while, and it's frustrating that "big" companies or sites don't really clarify.


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## GemstonePony (Aug 26, 2020)

LilianNoir said:


> I share your frustrations (once again, XD) @Catscankim and I've found that in my last few batches if I mixed up the max amount and kept adding until I got the color I wanted, it helped. Looking at the color of micas disbursed in oil helps, but that will be muted when added to the batter.
> 
> I did realize that for many of my micas (mad micas) the recommended amount was 1-2 tsn per pound of oils. So I could use up to 2tsn ppo when before I thought 1tsn was the limit.
> Once I realized I could (effectively) add twice as much as i was, I started using 2tsn/ppo to calculate my mica if i wanted bright, and used 1tsn/ppo for muted/pastels. That's really helped me to achieve colors closer to what I wanted.
> ...


I've seen 2 ways around this:
1. Measure your high-oleic oil (olive, avocado, sweet almond, etc) for the recipe and then pull from that for pre-dispersing. 
2. Mix up all your oils and pull from your batch for pre-dispersing. 

Solution 1 might trace a bit faster initially, and there could be some discrepancy in the oil makeup for each color depending on the amount of material used. 
Solution 2 the oils may solidify, requiring that they be pre-dispersed in the container for each batter color, with less leeway for adjusting the color. The batter might also need some time to melt them so they can be mixed, which needs to be factored into trace as well.


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## LilianNoir (Aug 26, 2020)

GemstonePony said:


> I've seen 2 ways around this:
> 1. Measure your high-oleic oil (olive, avocado, sweet almond, etc) for the recipe and then pull from that for pre-dispersing.
> 2. Mix up all your oils and pull from your batch for pre-dispersing.
> 
> ...


I've done #2 before but find it messy. I think I think like method 1 better but the method used probably will differ depending on if there are layers/etc

I think I may also just use less oil to disburse. I don't see why you can't do a 1:1. 
Mostly, i'm frustrated because mica/oil use seems to be glossed over in so many tutorials/videos/books and this problem could easily be addressed by explaining what you did. 
Also, who decided you needed a full tablespoon per teaspoon of mica? XD


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## LilianNoir (Aug 26, 2020)

Anstarx said:


> I weigh all my colorants in grams and calculate their percentage to the whole batter so I know how to achieve the same shade next time. I prefer it to using volumes.



yes! I find the volume measurement of colorant so frustrating (esp when everything else is in weight) that i took time to weigh .5 and 1 tsn and 1tblpn of various micas to see what the average weight was. I still use a teaspoon to get the mica out, but at least it makes keeping my supply inventory easier.


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## cmzaha (Aug 26, 2020)

I separate my batter just at emulsion and add the mica directly to my batter. I stir the mica in then will very quickly zap it with my SB it because it will mix it much better.


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## TheGecko (Aug 26, 2020)

LilianNoir said:


> One problem I've run into, is the amount of oil used to disburse my micas is bumping up my SF% to the point where my last batch was a bit softer than I expected it to be.



Simple solution...lower your SF from 5% to 4%.


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## dibbles (Aug 26, 2020)

You don’t need 1 tbsp of oil to disperse your micas. I only add enough to get them mixed and somewhat pourable. If I am using a lot of colors, I will lower my superfat by one or two %. Since I color by eye,I don’t like to reserve my batch oil in case I don’t want to add all of the mica I have mixed up. Although I guess taking a small amount of oil from my batch wouldn’t be much different than adding a bit extra to it.


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## LilianNoir (Aug 27, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> I separate my batter just at emulsion and add the mica directly to my batter. I stir the mica in then will very quickly zap it with my SB it because it will mix it much better.


This is what I've done for some batches, and I liked that approach, but I didn't use for batches that required a really fluid batter. I guess if you just do the SB for a quick second or two it shouldn't thicken up too much?



dibbles said:


> You don’t need 1 tbsp of oil to disperse your micas. I only add enough to get them mixed and somewhat pourable.


Good to hear. I think I'm going to use this approach and/or just add right to batter.



dibbles said:


> If I am using a lot of colors, I will lower my superfat by one or two %. Since I color by eye,I don’t like to reserve my batch oil in case I don’t want to add all of the mica I have mixed up. Although I guess taking a small amount of oil from my batch wouldn’t be much different than adding a bit extra to it.


Yeah I had that concern myself about reserving batch oil. But honestly, if I'm using just enough oil to get the mica suspended, then either way it shouldn't make a big difference.

Now i just wish sites/videos/ppl would stop recommending 1:3 mica to oil. It's so unnecessary!


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## Catscankim (Aug 28, 2020)

So i have done a couple batches by putting the mica directly into the batter without oil, and as far as color goes, they all seemed to work out very well. Is there any reason anybody can see that this is a bad idea?

mind you all...im still experimenting. I wouldnt do this with TD. Micas and AC only. I put the color in the empty container then add the batter. First i tried just mixing with a spatula. That was a bad idea. But i SB for one or two pulses and the magic happened.


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## dibbles (Aug 28, 2020)

A lot of people add mica this way. If you are adding a small bit of batter to mica in a separate cup you will probably be able to mix it well enough. If doing a one or two color simple design, I will do that because usually a bit of extra stick blending won't matter. But if I want my batter to remain as fluid as possible for something more complicated, I disperse in oil so that I don't have to worry about clumps and I don't have to do any stick blending. The one exception is AC or white of any kind (mica, TD) and those I find really need a little hit with the SB.


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## AliOop (Aug 28, 2020)

I agree with @dibbles and would add that how well it works to disperse right into batter also depends on the quality of your micas. Some just blend better than others. Greens and yellows tend to accelerate a bit even without SBing, so it is something to keep in mind when planning your design.


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## SoapWitch (Aug 28, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> I keep looking for answers and the more i look, the more confused i get.
> 
> I apparently have everything wrong when it comes to coloring soap with mica because my colors just dont turn out as planned. They are muted or look an entirely different color than anticipated (Blues look green or gray, reds look pink).



Dear Catscankim,
Do you use light oils/butters? To be more clear, I wonder if you are using unrefined or refined oils/butters. It sound like your base soap oils are darker. If that is true, and I'll look for your reply, no matter what you do the colors will be muted. If you are using refined or what I call a white/clearer base the colorants will come out true.

Looking forward to your answer. I might have missed it if this was answered already.
Bee


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## AliOop (Aug 28, 2020)

Good point, @SoapWitch! Gelling also makes such a difference. Recently one of my batches did not gel (long story), and the color difference was astonishing. If you set that soap next to a gelled soap with the same colorants, you wouldn't think I had even used the same micas, let alone the exact same recipe to a T.


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## SoapWitch (Aug 28, 2020)

AliOop said:


> Good point, @SoapWitch! Gelling also makes such a difference. Recently one of my batches did not gel (long story), and the color difference was astonishing. If you set that soap next to a gelled soap with the same colorants, you wouldn't think I had even used the same micas, let alone the exact same recipe to a T.



Indeed! I read/saw somewhere that yellows don't always gel darker. Is that true? I don't gel at all, so I don't have working understanding of this process.


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## AliOop (Aug 28, 2020)

No gelling for you at all? Yet yours are always so bright, with true colors. So interesting to hear how everyone soaps differently. 

Yellows are always tricky for me. Mostly I find that gelling makes the colors brighter, but I've had some colors, including yellow, get darker when gelled. And some yellows have gone mustard on me when gelled. So sad.


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## SoapWitch (Aug 28, 2020)

I'm glad to know my understanding of gelling yellows matches your understanding.


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## Catscankim (Aug 29, 2020)

Guess its back to the mica drawing board for me lol. I just cut last nights soaps. I added the mica and AC directly to the soap batter. I have some uncolored soap throughout. I poured really nice and fluid and didnt see it as i poured. The “Thin Blue Line” is thicker than i wanted anyway so i will have to try again.

This soap behaved really weird for me on several levels. I expected ash on top, but it seems that ash goes all the way through? Or something?

There was an orange oily substance on top (also on top of the single cavity molds i poured leftovers in). But i could wipe it off.

It is one of my regular recipes, so im not sure if it was the recipe, FO (which i have used before) or the colorants.

SB until emulsion, separated color containers and SB each container. I whisked in FO when i was ready to pour (Elements Sensual Secrets).

The first layer i poured pretty thin, so had to wait about 10 minutes to be able to pour the next layer. Id call the blue medium trace.... for some reason this mica always speeds up a bit. Then the top black was also a thin batter. I actually had to let the loaf sit a bit before i moved it to the oven.

CPOP 180 and turned off the oven immediately after putting it in, with the light on til morning.

Everything seemed to behaving so nicely pre-cut. Im really disappointed.


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## Catscankim (Aug 29, 2020)

And what do you think about a blue mica pencil line instead of it this way? Or do you think the blue would get lost in there?


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## Catscankim (Aug 29, 2020)

I think there is something wrong with this soap. Even if my colors are wrong....i have over a hundred bars made with this exact recipe with the same mold. 12 hours after cutting, they  still feel greasy. The orange oily spots that i wiped off have returned...also still wipe-offable. I only used 2oz of FO. I used the other 2oz of a 4oz bottle in another bar and its beautiful, lightly scented.

I have gotten into the habit of cleaning my bowls etc right after soaping because i hate the hardened soap stuck on everything if i let it dry to soap before cleaning. Well, this time i didnt have room for one bowl in the sink, and i let it sit for later. 2 days after, its just a greasy layer of batter in the bowl.

The only thing different is that its a new batch of palm oil. I wonder if thats it?? Its the same brand that i always use. I melted it in the microwave as usual, but i did notice that there were “floaters” all throughout the melted oil. Like specks of undissolved oil bits. It usually melts clear.

Maybe one of my measurements was off, but im pretty careful, like i will remove one granule of lye at a time to make it an exact measurement in grams lol.

I think this batch is going to be an actual throw away. I will let it cure just to see what happens. As it stands though, i dont think i would let another person use this soap.


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## AliOop (Aug 29, 2020)

@Catscankim I'd give some time to see what happens. You might have some FO or oil leaching out, and if so, those often reabsorb within a few days to a week. 

The palm floaters sound weird. I don't use palm much, so maybe someone who does can help with that.

Back to the original mica question, I haven't had great luck with blending anything directly into my batter. I always get streaks when I try that. FWIW, I think they look cool - the streaks and flecks look intentional and add interest.


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## Catscankim (Aug 29, 2020)

I know this original post morphed into my whining about my soap lol. I guess because i used the adding mica directly into tis soap method lol.

Im gonna have to experiment. My lard soap is my most well behaved recipe. So maybe i will try splitting a batch and try the mica both ways and see what happens.


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## dibbles (Aug 30, 2020)

My first thought is, are you positive you had a stable emulsion and when you poured your first layer was it showing any signs of trace at all, or was it still just at emulsion? 

Some FOs can actually reverse trace, so the other, perfect, batch you made with this FO - was that also just at emulsion when you poured, or did that have a definite trace? And is your problem child as firm as your other at about the same amount of time after pouring/unmolding/days out of the mold?

I would also wait a bit before you decide to toss it. If for no other reason than to just see what it does a few days or a couple of weeks later.


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## TashaBird (Aug 30, 2020)

dibbles said:


> I disperse my mica in oil, and I add until I get the color I want. I know this isn’t very helpful, but you will get a feel for how much to mix after awhile. I found this to be helpful, and might give you a starting guideline.



That was a great video! Thanks for sharing.


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## Catscankim (Aug 31, 2020)

dibbles said:


> My first thought is, are you positive you had a stable emulsion and when you poured your first layer was it showing any signs of trace at all, or was it still just at emulsion?
> 
> Some FOs can actually reverse trace, so the other, perfect, batch you made with this FO - was that also just at emulsion when you poured, or did that have a definite trace? And is your problem child as firm as your other at about the same amount of time after pouring/unmolding/days out of the mold?
> 
> I would also wait a bit before you decide to toss it. If for no other reason than to just see what it does a few days or a couple of weeks later.


 Now you say it....i have been playing with light trace vs emulsion. So i guess its very possible i was wrong. I will let it cure and see before i toss.

im pretty sure it wasnt the fo. But then i could be wrong there too. I will hang on to it.


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## Catscankim (Sep 18, 2020)

Update, im gonna throw this batch away. This isnt dos, i had the orange crud since the minute I took it out of the oven...cpop. It started as orange oily stuff that i kept wiping off, now it dried to a crust. And the bars still feel greasy.


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## GemstonePony (Sep 18, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> Update, im gonna throw this batch away. This isnt dos, i had the orange crud since the minute I took it out of the oven...cpop. It started as orange oily stuff that i kept wiping off, now it dried to a crust. And the bars still feel greasy.


Understandable. Have you tried a tiny batch of just the palm to make sure it's the problem child?
Alternatively, you could buy another batch of palm and try melting it. If the new one has the same problem you might need to switch suppliers.


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## Catscankim (Sep 18, 2020)

I dunno. I used up the rest of that palm oil with no problem. I must have measured something wrong.

edit

omg i just plopped it in the trash. That was one of the most heartbreaking things i have ever done lol


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## GemstonePony (Sep 18, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> I dunno. I used up the rest of that palm oil with no problem. I must have measured something wrong.
> 
> edit
> 
> omg i just plopped it in the trash. That was one of the most heartbreaking things i have ever done lol


So far I've only had to do that with tiny trial batches. I'm certain I'll be in tears when I finally have to do that with a loaf.


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## Catscankim (Sep 18, 2020)

I have had batches that were meh... but nothing to throw away. I knew this wasnt right from the beginning. I wouldnt use it let alone give it to somebody


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## The Park Bench (Sep 19, 2020)

I made a bad batch once and gave it to a furniture painter (when chalk painting furniture was a "thing") to clean his brushes with.  I didn't feel nearly as bad as if I had to "throw" it away


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