# homemade hair perfume/hair refesher spray?



## lindakschickens (Jul 22, 2018)

Since I just stated getting into soap making that also means I'm using my own or other's homemade lye based shampoo/body bars to wash my hair but we have hard water and my hair is left greasy as sin, believe this is due to hard water and my hair use to being stripped then coated in demithicone (think that is spelled right or at lest close to) and is transitioning to the shampoo bar/soap but I will admit I miss the smell that shampoo's and conditioner's left on my hair.

I know some people use water and EO's in a spray bottle to refresh the hair but can you use FO's (fragrance oils) in their place?


----------



## steffamarie (Jul 22, 2018)

I’ve read that lye based soaps are not suitable for hair due to the high pH of the bar. You might have more luck with synthetic detergent bars. Lots of shops carry those though I haven’t yet tried them. I’m in the market!


----------



## cmzaha (Jul 22, 2018)

I will behave....  Your hair may be greasy from added oils and butters in the "Soap" you are trying to use for hair. Soap is NOT SHAMPOO and not good for hair. You will be much better off and your hair will like you much better if you learn to use a nice surfactant based shampoo bar. Even a quality surfactant based m&p bar is better for hair. Here is a link for a shampoo base http://www.stephensonpersonalcare.com/products/crystal-ss. I have not used this one but have used one from Essentials by Catalina which was decent. EBC has apparently discontinued the manufacturing of their solid shampoo base. They do carry liquid shampoo base. Be kind to your hair, once you damage it you cannot fix it. Hair is dead and dead is dead


----------



## lsg (Jul 22, 2018)

I agree, most soap are not made to shampoo the hair, especially in hard water.  Check out a few easy recipes for homemade shampoo.  Here is one to get you started:

https://www.theherbarie.com/Botanical-Bubbles-Shampoo.html


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 22, 2018)

Steffamarie I have used synthetic detergent soaps/shampoos etc for most of my 29 years on this planet they have always caused one issue or another for me the worse being reactions on my scalp like rashes/acne and server burning and itching, very few can I use but even those after a few months start to cause me to have reactions. And I'm pretty sure the reasons for these reactions are because they are synthetic detergents only recently with my last reaction to my newest shampoo did I stop and really look what was in it and the allergies & reactions to them, some items that are found in a large percentage of synthetic detergent soap/shampoo etc is dimethicone. Dimethicone is a silicone is coats your hair to make it feel soft and healthy even when it most likely is not. Propylene Glycol is also found it lots of the same products as dimethicone, both cause various skin irritations like redness,itching burning, inflammation etc hence why I have turned to more natural soap.


Cmzaha: Propylene Glycol is found in this as well lots of hair products and causes reactions like stated above which sadly I get from "normal" shampoo that has dimethicone in it as well. also this claims it's SLS free but has Sodium Laurate which on a google search says it's SLS so not very good for that product if thats right but plus side no dimethicone. But I'm sure the PH for this product is higher then our skin and hair PH/acid mantel. Also soap and shampoo do the same thing they both strip the hair and skin of oils and clean, So they are fundamentally the same thing. Also to the best of my knowledge no one has never completely killed their hair, once hair is damaged it can be repaired but it will depend on the damage  the repairing is growing it out, and hair is both alive and dead.

Isg while yes not all soaps are made to shampoo the hair that does not mean ALL. thank you for the link but it has dimethicone in it thus can not use it.

Yes most normal natural (lye based) soap has a PH between 8-10. But the biggest issue is that hair and the human bodies PH/acid mantle is 4.5-5.5 all soaps both lye and synthetic are well above this so in short neither are great but one is not full of synthetic's specially one's that cause me to have bad reactions. Hence why I'm making my own soaps or buying them from other's and I am here. 

Also I'm not to sound rude ( which I'm sure I already do) but I'm not asking about if the soap I'm using on my hair is good I'm asking if I can use fragrance oil's to make my own hair refresher. Also it's not like I was my hair every day so the damage is going to be about the same or better then that of using the "normal" shampoo.

So Please every keep in mind that not every one can use "normal" shampoos that have dimethicone, SLS, propyline glycol etc. hence why more people are turning to more natural products like bicarb "shampooing" and/or ACV/ citric acid rinse's (which I do when I have a reaction to the "normal" soap and ACV/citric acid rinses help as well as a allergy pill).  I preferably don't want to spend the rest of my life eating allergy pills once I have a reaction or continued reactions to shampoos/soaps with the above items.

Again my question is can I make a hair refresher with fragrance oils.


----------



## earlene (Jul 22, 2018)

The lovely shampoo bar I made 2 or 3 years ago has become my luxurious body bar - only for my skin, not for my hair.  At first I loved it, but it was very hard to rinse out of my hair.  I don't and won't use a hair condition to rinse my hair (I break out in hives when I do, so I just don't.)  I have done the ACV rinse route in the past and don't need to go there again, because it just make my scalp more oil.  So I just stopped using it as a shampoo bar.

Then I watched a youtube video of the making of liquid soap containing lanolin and red turkey oil, among other things, and the soaper said it was going to be so good for the hair that I decided to try it, too.  So I made that soap after making sure I bought all the ingredients she used and followed her video and the follow up video (it was in 2 parts) very closely to get it right.   Well, it's fabulous as a shaving soap, which is all I used it for now.  I love it for shaving my underarms and my legs, because I never nick myself with a razor since I started using this LS.  But for hair shampoo, it just did not work out at all!

My lovely waist-length whitening blonde hair began to look and feel like straw in very short order, in spite of the lanolin included in the recipe.  My husband tried it, too and he liked it at first, and for a bit longer than I did, but after a couple of months he said his hair felt different and he quit using it as a shampoo as well.  Of course he doesn't have a lot of hair, just a bit around the edges, and he keeps that hair cut short.  So even a person with very short hair (also of the blonde turning grey variety) did not find lye soap at all acceptable.

Luckily I stopped using it soon enough to not totally ruin my hair, but some people have actually had to cut their hair after using lye soap on their hair, so I feel fortunate.

Others do have more positive experiences with lye shampoo, and Zany, another member here at SMF reports very positive results. She will surely reply with her experience and some suggestions. So perhaps it may work for you as well.  My suspicion is that hair type and certain other unknown genetic factors perhaps, plus other adjunct products may contribute to others success.  I don't really know for sure because I only have my own experience.

We do also have very hard water, but use a water softener.  I do add EDTA to my soap to help reduce soap scum, but suspect soap scum was part of the problem that made my hair look and feel so dull when I was using the lye shampoos.



lindakschickens said:


> Since I just stated getting into soap making that also means I'm using my own or other's homemade lye based shampoo/body bars to wash my hair but we have hard water and my hair is left greasy as sin, believe this is due to hard water and my hair use to being stripped then coated in demithicone (think that is spelled right or at lest close to) and is transitioning to the shampoo bar/soap but I will admit I miss the smell that shampoo's and conditioner's left on my hair.
> 
> I know some people use water and EO's in a spray bottle to refresh the hair but can you use FO's (fragrance oils) in their place?





lindakschickens said:


> Again my question is can I make a hair refresher with fragrance oils.



My concern about using Fragrance Oils in a spray on the hair would be not only concentration, but content in the FO.  Same with EOs, I guess.  Alcohol or phthalate, just a couple of examples.  With some research, you can find phthalate-free FOs, though.  Still what other ingredients are in FOs you will never know because a complete ingredients list is covered by the  'Trade Secret' realm.

Also you'd have to take into account the safe usage limits for each FO (just as you would with EOs) because it will come into contact with your skin; i.e. scalp, face, neck, shoulders, wherever your spray or your hair touches.  

Women have been spraying perfume on their hair for centuries, so I don't think using Fragrance Oils is a new concept.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 22, 2018)

What works for some don't work for others thanks for talking about that now shave soap or your think I might look it up .  one of the reasons I think my hair is oily is because the normal shampoo strips my hair and my scalp over produces oil which I think why my hair is greasy as it's not use to not needing to produce lots of oil. atm the soap I'm using has Apricot Kernel Oil 14.60% . Castor oil 8.39%,  Cocoa Butter 19.34%, EV Coconut Oil 18.25% , Lard. 22.99%, Shea Butter 16.42%. 2 different liquids were used which was milk and water in even amounts. The only part of my hair that is really greasy or oily as sin is about 1"-1 1/2"  from the root on my crown, the back of my head feels normal so do the lengths well minus the dead ends I need a hair cut.

I ended up spilling a few drops of the rose FO I wanted to use on myself and have not reacted to it so think maybe 10 drops in a cup- cup and a half of aloe vera juice with 1 tbs of jojoba and sea buckthorn maybe safe. I have thought of using May Chang EO.

Also thank you earlene for you input on my question


----------



## penelopejane (Jul 22, 2018)

There are lots of commercially available herbal- herbal shampoos that are suitable for hair. The list of what is not in them is huge. The ingredients are all easily identifiable plant based substances. 
Sukin and alchemy to name two.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 22, 2018)

Thanks penelopejane I'll look into those but still want to try and make something myself, specially in seeing how I'm making my own lotion again with shea,cocoa, a dollop of coconut and a few spoons of aloe vera gel (great for sunburn DH is a red head and came home looking like a lobster today). Besides that the if my DH and DD can use the same stuff as me then the savings will be decent (or more so as I am finding better and cheaper suppliers) once I add xmas gifts into the mix. My DD is looking like she will be like me she is starting to react to her own baby products *crys*. But I will say a citric acid rinse has made my hair feel less greasy on my crown and does not feel stripped.


----------



## steffamarie (Jul 22, 2018)

As an aside, have you tried the "no-poo" method of hair care? My boyfriend has very thick hair and, while he doesn't experience allergic-type reactions to detergents as you do, he finds that after a period of adjustment he no longer needs to use any shampoo. He quit cold turkey, but I know others who have done it over a longer period of time. If you find the grease factor of the lye soap doesn't dissipate as your hair "gets used to" the new soap, maybe this would work. If you find a hair refresher that works, you could still use that for scent and conditioning.

It's worth noting that my boyfriend DOES use Groom and Clean to style his hair, which he rinses out in the shower. I suspect it acts more or less like a conditioner, but I don't see dimethicone or any syndets that I'm familiar with on the ingredients list. Maybe one of the additives you could put in your refresher would accomplish a similar purpose (as you mentioned, jojoba oil).

I recently found aloe juice at my local Walmart and thought about how it might be on hair - if you go that route, please advise how it works!! I'd love to know for my own use.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 22, 2018)

I have gone down the no-poo road, bicarb was overly harsh for my hair (then again when I tried it my hair was growing out from over bleaching by a salon) but the AVC was ok for me. I did not know about citric acid til like 4 days ago tried that today and it works just like ACV so I love it thus far. I was also thinking of trying aloe Vera juice as a rinse. Also just did a PH check (got some strips and a electric ph test stick thing) on some of the shampoo's and conditioners  I have used in the last like 2 months they all have a ph of 9-10 my lye based soap is testing at ph 8-9.


----------



## Obsidian (Jul 22, 2018)

I have used FO in a light oil like fractionated coconut to apply to the ends of my hair. I'm sure it would be ok in water but make sure you know the usage amount of your particular FO and don't overdo it.

Hair products are the one thing I prefer to use EO's in.

Did you happen to do a deep cleansing before switching to shampoo bars? It really helps the transition if you can get all the gunk out before switching. Suave daily clarifying shampoo is dimethicone free, in fact its free of all cones and oils.
When I was using shampoo bars, I still had to use regular shampoo every couple weeks to get out the soap scum and other build up. Always use a vinegar rinse for your hair and some kind of chelator in your bars.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 22, 2018)

Obsidian. God I wish I had sauve over here in the UK that is like the only shampoo I never reacted to and the only shampoo and conditioner brand my father will use he says everything else makes his hair feel like slime and gack is on it. Was told apple cider vinegar or citric acid ( if I did not want to smell acv). And what is  a chelator?


----------



## Obsidian (Jul 22, 2018)

A chelator is something that binds the minerals in hard water so it rinses away better instead of sticking to your hair or skin. A popular one for soap use is EDTA, you should be able to find it on amazon.

Stinks about sauve, its the only grocery store brand my hairdresser recommends as its PH balanced. I know there are cone free brands in the UK, I can ask over on the hair forum I go to if you want recommendations?


----------



## BattleGnome (Jul 22, 2018)

You mention a concern about propelyne glycol. I just wanted to note that some suppliers dilute their fragrances in propelyne glycol or similar substances. If you have issues with it as a shampoo ingredient you may have the same issues if you use FO in a leave on product


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 22, 2018)

Edta..sounds like something someone would name their kid. Don't know about sauve pH balanced but it did not bother me as much if at all compared to other brands.

BattleGnome (love the name btw) I totally did not know that and will definitely be sending a email off to my supplier to see if they use propelyne glycol. Thank you for telling me.


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Jul 23, 2018)

SHAMPOO BARS
Many soapers make and use lye-based shampoo bars and lye-based liquid shampoo. Myself included. It's important to rinse thoroughly after shampooing, with increasingly cool water until it's as cold as you can stand it to close the hair shaft. Follow up with a vinegar rinse to restore the acid mantle of the scalp. Beer is another option. I have a parsley/lemon rinse recipe in my files that's quite nice if  interested.

When I first tried a shampoo bar in 2004 it took about a year for my hair to get used to it. I even went back to OTC shampoo a few times during that year. This is typical of other soapers' experience as well. Once my hair adjusted, I've used whatever bar that we happened to be test driving in the shower without any negative effects.

LIQUID SHAMPOO
I now make and use my own Flaxseed & Rosin (Liquid) Shampoo, Hog Wash Hair & Body (Liquid) Shampoo (50/50 PKO & Lard), & Dr. Bronner's Type Baby Mild (Liquid) Castile Soap and just love the results. I don't even need conditioner. But I do use a few drops of Argan Oil to add shine and nourish the hair.

Read more about Shampoo Bars on the Chagrin Valley Site. Links:

Why Use A Natural Shampoo Bar?
https://www.chagrinvalleysoapandsalve.com/blog/posts/why-use-a-natural-shampoo-bar/

Everything About Shampoo Bars
https://www.chagrinvalleysoapandsalve.com/blog/posts/everything-about-shampoo-bars/

On another note, you may want to try Polysorbate 80. Link:

Polysorbate 80 as shampoo
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/shampoo-bars-again.64936/#post-664547



lindakschickens said:


> I know some people use water and EO's in a spray bottle to refresh the hair but can you use FO's (fragrance oils) in their place?


Yes. You can do just that but it will need shaking every time you use it. For 100 ml batch:
70% water
20% alcohol (preservative)
6% Polysorbate 20 or 80
1-3% fragrance (to preference)
1% glycerin (to stick)

A couple of other things that come to mind...

Add fragrance to argan oil (or oil of choice) at a rate of 1%. Work a drop or two into towel-dried hair and comb through.

ZANY'S BASIC HAIR CONDITIONER WITH LEMON (Use normal lotion making method)
Makes 200 grams = approx. 7 oz.

178 grams water (89%)
8 grams (2 tsp.) ReaLemon Lemon Juice Concentrate (4%)
6 grams coconut oil (3%) (or oil of your choice)
8 grams BTMS (Conditioning Emulsifier) (4%)
1 gram (1/4 tsp.) Liquid Germall Plus (0.5%)
1/2 teaspoon fragrance

To use: Put a small dollop in your hand. Rub palms together. Work into ends first, then scalp. Comb through. Wrap hair in a towel for 5-10 minutes, then rinse with increasingly cool water until hair squeaks.

NOTES: This basic hair conditioner is quick and easy to make. Feel free to play around with whatever oils/butters/additives you like. Just remember to reduce the amount of water to keep the formula balanced at 100%. Coconut oil is very conditioning for most types of hair, but your hair might like something else.


----------



## Shiningdown (Jul 23, 2018)

lindakschickens said:


> Since I just stated getting into soap making that also means I'm using my own or other's homemade lye based shampoo/body bars to wash my hair but we have hard water and my hair is left greasy as sin, believe this is due to hard water and my hair use to being stripped then coated in demithicone (think that is spelled right or at lest close to) and is transitioning to the shampoo bar/soap but I will admit I miss the smell that shampoo's and conditioner's left on my hair.
> 
> I know some people use water and EO's in a spray bottle to refresh the hair but can you use FO's (fragrance oils) in their place?


Is quite nice to hear someone else is using a bar for shampooing as well! I have actually found it helpful to my bad condition scalp. As for the FO, I would try a smaller section of hair first. Many of the oils are made differently and unless researched  cannot tell what or how they've been made. I miss the shampoo smell also. But I use light body sprays when hair is still wet . A just a small spritz as to not dry it out . Everyone's skin and hair react differently to different things  often we don't know until trying. Another option u can try is making your own flower hydrosol. I've read up some on this  it's basically a simple flower water. I use a rose one from the flowers in my yard. It's also a great face toner! Amazing! Here's a link how to make http://dandelionessherbals.blogspot.com/2013/08/do-it-yourself-hydrosols-making-and.html?m=1


----------



## cmzaha (Jul 23, 2018)

lindakschickens said:


> Steffamarie I have used synthetic detergent soaps/shampoos etc for most of my 29 years on this planet they have always caused one issue or another for me the worse being reactions on my scalp like rashes/acne and server burning and itching, very few can I use but even those after a few months start to cause me to have reactions. And I'm pretty sure the reasons for these reactions are because they are synthetic detergents only recently with my last reaction to my newest shampoo did I stop and really look what was in it and the allergies & reactions to them, some items that are found in a large percentage of synthetic detergent soap/shampoo etc is dimethicone. Dimethicone is a silicone is coats your hair to make it feel soft and healthy even when it most likely is not. Propylene Glycol is also found it lots of the same products as dimethicone, both cause various skin irritations like redness,itching burning, inflammation etc hence why I have turned to more natural soap.
> 
> 
> Cmzaha: Propylene Glycol is found in this as well lots of hair products and causes reactions like stated above which sadly I get from "normal" shampoo that has dimethicone in it as well. also this claims it's SLS free but has Sodium Laurate which on a google search says it's SLS so not very good for that product if thats right but plus side no dimethicone. But I'm sure the PH for this product is higher then our skin and hair PH/acid mantel. Also soap and shampoo do the same thing they both strip the hair and skin of oils and clean, So they are fundamentally the same thing. Also to the best of my knowledge no one has never completely killed their hair, once hair is damaged it can be repaired but it will depend on the damage  the repairing is growing it out, and hair is both alive and dead.


Sorry damaged dead hair cannot be repaired, it can have band aids such as conditioners. Hair is only alive until it penetrates the scalp so once you see the hair it is no longer living, it is the hair follicle that is alive and needs nourishment, Using lye based soap is not good for nourishing skin or scalp. Hair follicles can die and is a contributing factor to baldness. I prefer to not take any chances and preserve what I know is alive. Surfactant based shampoos are much milder and do not strip oils from the hair and scalp the same as lye based soap. It can be tricky to keep the scalp from becoming itchy and keeping hair in good shape. If you have short hair cut often it really does not matter, but for long gorgeous hair soap it can be a total disaster and cause one to cut off years and years of growth.

If you can determine exactly the ingredients giving you problems, you can then design a shampoo bar without using said ingredients. Just a side note Sodium Laurate is the sodium salt of Lauric acid which is an acid found naturally in coconut oil. Lauric and Myristic acids are the two cleansing and bubbly acids in soap, and many surfactants are made from Coconut Oil. 

I have very itchy scalp due to extreme eczema for which I use a serum containing 0.25% pyrithione zinc that works splendidly without affecting my hair. Natural is not always the answer, and what works on one's hair may not work for one's scalp and visa versa


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 23, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> Sorry damaged dead hair cannot be repaired, it can have band aids such as conditioners. Hair is only alive until it penetrates the scalp so once you see the hair it is no longer living, it is the hair follicle that is alive and needs nourishment, Using lye based soap is not good for nourishing skin or scalp. Hair follicles can die and is a contributing factor to baldness. I prefer to not take any chances and preserve what I know is alive. Surfactant based shampoos are much milder and do not strip oils from the hair and scalp the same as lye based soap. It can be tricky to keep the scalp from becoming itchy and keeping hair in good shape. If you have short hair cut often it really does not matter, but for long gorgeous hair soap it can be a total disaster and cause one to cut off years and years of growth.
> 
> If you can determine exactly the ingredients giving you problems, you can then design a shampoo bar without using said ingredients. Just a side note Sodium Laurate is the sodium salt of Lauric acid which is an acid found naturally in coconut oil. Lauric and Myristic acids are the two cleansing and bubbly acids in soap, and many surfactants are made from Coconut Oil.
> 
> I have very itchy scalp due to extreme eczema for which I use a serum containing 0.25% pyrithione zinc that works splendidly without affecting my hair. Natural is not always the answer, and what works on one's hair may not work for one's scalp and visa versa


Again as I said hair is alive and dead an hair can repair itself by growning out,that does not mean you will not get split ends which u will or other issue the repair part it just grown it out.  Also I want to point out NO shampoo or conditioner will really nourish hair they all clean it and strip it and striping oils is still striping oils. Do you know the average pH of surfactant base shampoo/conditioner?  Also surfactant is just any name for detergent.

Also in my honest opinion natural is better it always has been more people should advocate for more natural products. Yes we all know people are different but we live in a world where ever one wants a quick fix and that comes at a cost of putting more unnatural products in us for example fake sugars are touted as a great thing for people who have diabetes yet everyone I know what has diabetes avoid it like the plauge as it makes them sick and causes their blood sugar to go nuts. 

Yes everyone is different some perfer shampoos with a lye base others do not. You seem to perfer a non lye base that is fine use what you find best for you.

What is not fine to me is tho basically stateing all lye shampoos will damage you dead hair harm you scalp and force you to cut off all your hair like it's a hard and true fact. When ininde that is from from fact before we had the shampoo's and conditioner's we now know we had lye based soap which was used to clean everything even hair. My great grandma used lye based soap to wash her hair for most of her life and had no issues with it. Again everyone is different but I don't want harsh chemical cleaners or silicon's etc on my head any more nor do I want them on my dh or dd. 

While I respect your right to state you opinions and veiws. I just don't agree fully with you. But thank you for letting me know about sodium laurate I will need to do more indepth research as my searches keeps calling it sls.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 23, 2018)

Shiningdown said:


> Is quite nice to hear someone else is using a bar for shampooing as well! I have actually found it helpful to my bad condition scalp. As for the FO, I would try a smaller section of hair first. Many of the oils are made differently and unless researched  cannot tell what or how they've been made. I miss the shampoo smell also. But I use light body sprays when hair is still wet . A just a small spritz as to not dry it out . Everyone's skin and hair react differently to different things  often we don't know until trying. Another option u can try is making your own flower hydrosol. I've read up some on this  it's basically a simple flower water. I use a rose one from the flowers in my yard. It's also a great face toner! Amazing! Here's a link how to make http://dandelionessherbals.blogspot.com/2013/08/do-it-yourself-hydrosols-making-and.html?m=1


Thank you I will be checking this out!


----------



## TeresaGG (Jul 23, 2018)

lindakschickens said:


> thank you for letting me know about sodium laurate I will need to do more indepth research as my searches keeps calling it sls.



SLS
_noun_

short for sodium lauryl sulfate.
IUPAC name
Sodium dodecyl sulfate
Other names
Sodium monododecyl sulfate; Sodium lauryl sulfate; Sodium monolauryl sulfate; Sodium dodecanesulfate; Sodium coco-sulfate; dodecyl alcohol, hydrogen sulfate, sodium salt; n-dodecyl sulfate sodium; Sulfuric acid monododecyl ester sodium salt;
*
Sodium dodecyl sulfate* (*SDS*), synonymously *sodium lauryl sulfate* (*SLS*), or sodium laurilsulfate, is a synthetic organic compoundwith the formula CH3(CH2)11SO4 Na. It is an anionic surfactant used in many cleaning and hygiene products. The sodium salt is of an organosulfate class of organics. It consists of a 12-carbon tail attached to a sulfate group, that is, it is the sodium salt of _dodecyl hydrogen sulfate,_ the ester of dodecyl alcoholand sulfuric acid. Its hydrocarbon tail combined with a polar "headgroup" give the compound amphiphilic properties and so make it useful as a detergent.[_not verified in body_]Also derived as a component of mixtures produced from inexpensive coconut and palm oils, SDS is a common component of many domestic cleaning, personal hygiene and cosmetic, pharmaceutical, and food products, as well as of industrial and commercial cleaning and products.
Edit: from wikipedia


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 23, 2018)

Zany_in_CO said:


> SHAMPOO BARS
> Many soapers make and use lye-based shampoo bars and lye-based liquid shampoo. Myself included. It's important to rinse thoroughly after shampooing, with increasingly cool water until it's as cold as you can stand it to close the hair shaft. Follow up with a vinegar rinse to restore the acid mantle of the scalp. Beer is another option. I have a parsley/lemon rinse recipe in my files that's quite nice if  interested.
> 
> When I first tried a shampoo bar in 2004 it took about a year for my hair to get used to it. I even went back to OTC shampoo a few times during that year. This is typical of other soapers' experience as well. Once my hair adjusted, I've used whatever bar that we happened to be test driving in the shower without any negative effects.
> ...



I did wash my hair early this morning with my shampoo bar I used hot water (not to hot tho) and scrubed (intense massage more like it)  my scalp and hair to get excess oils and stuff out did that for about 2-4 mins then used my shampoo bar rinsed with warm and went cool then grabbed my pitcher of cold citric acid and water mix and poured it on bloody hell was it cold.But my root area and the 1 and some odd inch from that greasy area don't really feel greasy or as greasy now. 

I am sure it's just my hair getting use to it. And thank you for the recipes I will be trying these out.. oo parsley/lemon rinse that sounds nice.

I'll defo be looking into doing these recipes. Thanks



TeresaGG said:


> SLS
> _noun_
> 
> short for sodium lauryl sulfate.
> ...


Thanks for the info on SLS. I'm trying to stay away from palm oil products because of the issues surrounding it. I have no problem with SLS other then that, I did more searching on the one melt and pour shampoo that what linked while it says SLS free on the main companies site, but those that sell it it says it can contain 1%-5% of SLS so not really free of SLS if that is the case but thanks for letting me know about this product and found the company is quite popular over here for those that want to make soap but not deal with lye specially those with kids.


----------



## dixiedragon (Jul 23, 2018)

I'm toying with the idea of making a leave-in hair conditioner. I just recently started using this and love it:
https://www.lushusa.com/hair/hair-treatments/randb/03080.html

Oat Milk (Avena Sativa) Glycerine Organic Avocado Butter (Persea Gratissima) Fair Trade Olive Oil (Olea Europaea) Glyceryl Stearate & PEG-100 Stearate Fragrance Cetearyl Alcohol Extra Virgin Coconut Oil (Cocos Nucifera) Cold Pressed Organic Jojoba Oil (Simmondsia Chinensis) Orange Flower Absolute (Citrus Aurantium Amara) Jasmine Absolute (Jasminum Grandiflorum) Cupuacu Butter (Theobroma Grandiflorum) Phenoxyethanol Benzyl Alcohol Candelilla Wax (Euphorbia Cerifera) *Benzyl Salicylate *Citral *Eugenol *Geraniol *Hydroxycitronellal *Isoeugenol *Benzyl Benzoate *Farnesol *Limonene *Linalool Butylphenyl Methylpropional 

I think it's basically a lotion recipe formulated for hair? I love it because it stops my hair from getting knots and it smells REALLY good. I'm wondering if you could start with something very simple, such as some oil (coconut, olive, whatever) and a few drops of scent. Shake well, put a few drops on your hands and run through your hair.


----------



## DeeAnna (Jul 23, 2018)

lindakschickens said:


> ....before we had the shampoo's and conditioner's we now know we had lye based soap which was used to clean everything even hair. My great grandma used lye based soap to wash her hair for most of her life and had no issues with it....



Bear in mind there are significant generational differences -- what worked for grandma will not automatically work well for granddaughter.

If a person only washes her hair once a week or less often, as most people did in my grandmother's day, then using lye-based soap on the hair is probably tolerable. But using lye-based soap for washing hair every day or multiple times a week as most people do nowadays? That is honestly not a good idea.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 23, 2018)

dixiedragon said:


> I'm toying with the idea of making a leave-in hair conditioner. I just recently started using this and love it:
> https://www.lushusa.com/hair/hair-treatments/randb/03080.html
> 
> Oat Milk (Avena Sativa) Glycerine Organic Avocado Butter (Persea Gratissima) Fair Trade Olive Oil (Olea Europaea) Glyceryl Stearate & PEG-100 Stearate Fragrance Cetearyl Alcohol Extra Virgin Coconut Oil (Cocos Nucifera) Cold Pressed Organic Jojoba Oil (Simmondsia Chinensis) Orange Flower Absolute (Citrus Aurantium Amara) Jasmine Absolute (Jasminum Grandiflorum) Cupuacu Butter (Theobroma Grandiflorum) Phenoxyethanol Benzyl Alcohol Candelilla Wax (Euphorbia Cerifera) *Benzyl Salicylate *Citral *Eugenol *Geraniol *Hydroxycitronellal *Isoeugenol *Benzyl Benzoate *Farnesol *Limonene *Linalool Butylphenyl Methylpropional
> ...


Been paying with the idea of a leave in condioner to. Funny enough I made a lotion of sorts with Shea and cocoa butter along with EVOO, sweet almond oil and a few other oils and aloe vera gel along  some french lavender EO feel great on my skin and just rubbed some into my ends maybe a hr ago and I have a very light lavender smell and my ends seem to be smoother and not oily


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Jul 23, 2018)

lindakschickens said:


> I did wash my hair early this morning with my shampoo bar I used hot water (not to hot tho) and scrubed (intense massage more like it)  my scalp and hair to get excess oils and stuff out did that for about 2-4 mins then used my shampoo bar rinsed with warm and went cool then grabbed my pitcher of cold citric acid and water mix and poured it on bloody hell was it cold.But my root area and the 1 and some odd inch from that greasy area don't really feel greasy or as greasy now.


Here's a link to a thread that addresses the problems you're having:

SHAMPOO BAR RESIDUE 
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/shampoo-bar-residue.47769/

This is a good one too:
https://jrliggett.com/faq#best-results


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 23, 2018)

DeeAnna said:


> Bear in mind there are significant generational differences -- what worked for grandma will not automatically work well for granddaughter.
> 
> If a person only washes her hair once a week or less often, as most people did in my grandmother's day, then using lye-based soap on the hair is probably tolerable. But using lye-based soap for washing hair every day or multiple times a week as most people do nowadays? That is honestly not a good idea.


While yes what works for one might not work for another which I'm sure I have said in a previous post does not mean it will not work. And honestly washing hair every day to me is bad for hair regardless of if it's lye based or not. Heck I only wasy hair 2-3 a week at most. And all my shampoos and conditioners have a high pH then my bar of soap some I'm pretty sure those are worse for my hair then my bar soap and citric acid rinse.

Also my question did not relate to what I wash my hair with as that is my own personal choice. Why some felt the need critique my choice and use scare tactics to dissuade from using my own or others lye based products does annoy.

I get some of you have had bad experiences but that does not mean everyone will suffer the same way as you nor does it mean what you say is a whole fact i.e your hair will fall out or you'll have to cut it all off if you use x. That may have happened to you but might not happen to someone else as everyone is different.

Now if we could just focus on my question and not my choice if hair wash that would be great .

And thank you Zany_in_CO I will be reading that.


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Jul 23, 2018)

lindakschickens said:


> oo parsley/lemon rinse that sounds nice.


PARSLEY LEMON HAIR RINSE 
(Source: Making Soaps & Scents by Catherine Bardey)

The juice of one lemon
2 ounces finely chopped parsley
8 ounces of water

Bring water to boil. Add parsley and let stand for 5 minutes. Strain. Add lemon juice and allow to cool. Slowly pour rinse onto towel-dried hair. Keep your eyes shut as the high level of acidity will sting. Rinse thoroughly with increasingly cool water until it’s as cold as you can stand it.


----------



## dixiedragon (Jul 23, 2018)

lindakschickens said:


> While yes what works for one might not work for another which I'm sure I have said in a previous post does not mean it will not work. And honestly washing hair every day to me is bad for hair regardless of if it's lye based or not. Heck I only wasy hair 2-3 a week at most. And all my shampoos and conditioners have a high pH then my bar of soap some I'm pretty sure those are worse for my hair then my bar soap and citric acid rinse.
> 
> Also my question did not relate to what I wash my hair with as that is my own personal choice. Why some felt the need critique my choice and use scare tactics to dissuade from using my own or others lye based products does annoy.
> 
> ...



I think the reason you are getting such dire warnings is that long hair is the result of years of growth. If you make a soap recipe that doesn't work in your face, you might get some dryness or some irritation or some acne, which (generally speaking) should clear up pretty quickly. But we've had a few posters on here who had to cut off a foot of hair and that's not something easily remedied! 

You may want to check out Swift Crafty Monkey. She's got some good discussions of shampoo recipes, you might find one that doesn't have the ingredients you are allergic to. You can also try Etsy, maybe purchase a bar and see if you like it.


----------



## LilyJo (Jul 23, 2018)

I dont really like weighing into these back and forth discussions but I wanted to add my tuppence!

Shampoo bars are so trendy this year, I have never seen so many requests and comments on social media for solid shampoo and in truth a large part of the requests are often as a desire to be 'greener' or to go plastic free with very little thought on the implications of doing so.  I suspect that many of the comments on SMF come from seeing that and also personal and customer experience with using soap as shampoo.

Many people cannot get on with soap as shampoo and having seen the damage done up close are keen that anyone who goes down that route understands the implications of what they are doing - some of the soapers on here have many years of soap, bath and body experience as well as a great deal of scientific or chemistry knowledge. It is absolutely your choice to go down that route but by coming on SMF it is their choice to voice their opinion on soap as shampoo.

Incidentally, you would have got the same reaction had you said you were making baby soap or soap for dogs - at the end of the day its your choice to accept or ignore whatever advice you are given.

SLS is very often the main trigger for people in commercial shampoo or body wash and if you are trying to go 'natural' you would be wise to ignore it completely. SLES is milder but is still known as a trigger ingredient for many.

As was said earlier, Sukin are a great brand and make great no nasties shampoo - I cant use it as its too mild for my hair and doesnt get it clean. Soap makes my hair feel like straw no matter what I do. My choice.

I would also say that natural doesnt mean better for you or your skin or hair - essential oils can be just as toxic as chemicals and many FOs these days contain the same compounds as are found in EOs. If you use FO or EO, be careful of what they are diluted into and the percentage, some are much more dilute than others.

If you are making a refresher, its essentially a perfume or a rinse (one leave on and the other a wash off) so the maximum usage percentage will vary, many leave on can be as low as 1% depending on the compound so check the IFRA statement.

Best of luck with formulating your rinse - you hit on an emotive subject for sure!


----------



## shunt2011 (Jul 23, 2018)

They aren't using scare tactics, speaking from personal experience isn't a tactic, it's fact from their experience.   You are free to do as you like.  You're an adult it's totally up to you if you want to risk it.   I'm one who was very sorry she did.

My husband uses my soap for shampoo...........then again he doesn't have much to lose either.


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Jul 23, 2018)

lindakschickens said:


> Also my question did not relate to what I wash my hair with as that is my own personal choice. Why some felt the need critique my choice and use scare tactics to dissuade from using my own or others lye based products does annoy. ... Now if we could just focus on my question and not my choice if hair wash that would be great .
> 
> And thank you Zany_in_CO I will be reading that.


You're welcome, Linda! BTW, it annoys me too! Sometimes members think because they are "right" they have a right to be rude to newcomers. Sad, really, but they should be forgiven because they mean well and just want to be helpful. 

I try hard to ignore them and not respond to OT ("Off Topic") comments. As the OP ("Original Poster") only you can ask Administration (Angie) to remove any and all comments in this thread that are not on topic or that you find rude or offensive. Not that it will work, mind you, but you can ask. You need to make a list of post #'s and send them off to Admin/Mods or post them here:
*SMF Announcements, Comments, Help & Rules*

If only we could get this thread back on topic, I would love to see what others come up with. Cross fingers.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 23, 2018)

Thank you Zany_in_CO I'll give it a go.

Dixiedragon I suffered acne for years the only thing that did help it was a lye based soap that used tallow tea tree and green tea and I can't remember what else but I never found it again and have lived with acne for years. I get if it's not good on your face to be weary of it but I used this bar on my face and had no reaction before I tried it on my hair this bar leaves my face clean and soft which was a nice surprise.

I get people wanting to inform and help others but when you have people that throw all lye based products together and claim they make hair fall out I really don't believe it because what one person thinks is major hair falling out others call shedding.

LilyJoe I have no problem with people stateing their experience/view what I do have a issue with is people who might not have tried it lump all lye based products together and start using scare tactics like it will make your hair fall out. But thank you for the other great info.

Shunt2011.It is a scare tactic if you have not personally experienced a bad reaction and are only repeating what someone else said. Which in this day and age a lot of people do. So forgive me if I take everything with a grain of salt because of this. 

I want to state I have shoulder length hair on one side of my head (my new perfered hair cut) it's thick hair or least it was before a lunatic with some thinning shears decided for me that my hair was too thick for it's own good. Most of the normal shampoos and conditioners I have used of late have left me with scalp irritations and have left my hair flat, feeling even thinner then what it is and straw like. I always have had bad shedding (hair fall) no matter what I use so not worried about that. Since changing over to my lye base my hair feels thicker albeit a lil greasy due to the change.


----------



## cmzaha (Jul 23, 2018)

Zany_in_CO said:


> You're welcome, Linda! BTW, it annoys me too! Sometimes members think because they are "right" they have a right to be rude to newcomers. Sad, really, but they should be forgiven because they mean well and just want to be helpful.
> 
> I try hard to ignore them and not respond to OT ("Off Topic") comments. As the OP ("Original Poster") only you can ask Administration (Angie) to remove any and all comments in this thread that are not on topic or that you find rude or offensive. Not that it will work, mind you, but you can ask. You need to make a list of post #'s and send them off to Admin/Mods or post them here:
> *SMF Announcements, Comments, Help & Rules*
> ...


Many times a topic takes on a life of it's own and will lead to other discussions. If you are calling me out as rude so be it. OP asked why her hair is greasy using shampoo bars aka soap bars. I know you have mentioned using them for years that is great, but do not call us "Rude" for trying to warn someone of the very possible repercussions of using soap. Charles from the Wen product got his backside sued big time and his soap based shampoo is now off the market. I really do not know why you would think the posts should be removed. Not all lab made surfactants are bad, without them we would not have No Tear Baby Shampoo and would be buring the children's eyes with "Soap," which is probably not a great thing to do. Using a bar soap for hair once a week may never catch up, using it multiple times per week, may very well catch up. We all have choices, and we were just trying to point out what could happen. "Could" not guarantee

I really do not think I need to be "Forgiven," for hopefully mentioning they are risking damage, but to say you use it with great success if okay, Hum.... I shall now slink away, but remember beautiful long hair can take 10 yrs to grow and it takes less than an hour to cut if all off.


----------



## dixiedragon (Jul 23, 2018)

lindakschickens said:


> Thank you Zany_in_CO I'll give it a go.
> 
> Dixiedragon I suffered acne for years the only thing that did help it was a lye based soap that used tallow tea tree and green tea and I can't remember what else but I never found it again and have lived with acne for years. I get if it's not good on your face to be weary of it but I used this bar on my face and had no reaction before I tried it on my hair this bar leaves my face clean and soft which was a nice surprise.
> 
> ...



Generally we're not talking about falling out / shedding - we're talking about the high pH of lye-based soap (vs an artificial surfectant) affecting the hair shaft itself, vs the follical. As one poster said, once hair comes out of the folicle, it's dead. It can't heal, so if you want long hair you have to preserve it. Soap makes hair brittle and much more prone to breakage. 

Have you looked into soapwort and soap nuts? I personally haven't tried them but I have read of some people getting good results.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 23, 2018)

Cmzaha the only reason a thread takes on a "life" of it's own is normally due to people posting off the original topic. while yes it can help other times it does not.

Also in my original post I said and I quote "Since I just stated getting into soap making that also means I'm using my own or other's homemade lye based shampoo/body bars to wash my hair but we have hard water and my hair is left greasy as sin, believe this is due to hard water and my hair use to being stripped then coated in demithicone (think that is spelled right or at lest close to) and is transitioning to the shampoo bar/soap but I will admit I miss the smell that shampoo's and conditioner's left on my hair.

I know some people use water and EO's in a spray bottle to refresh the hair but can you use FO's (fragrance oils) in their place?" 

So no I did not ask WHY my hair was greasy using a shampoo bar I chalked it up to my hair getting use to it.

There are also repercussions of using normal shampoos and conditioner and everything else on this planet not just lye base items. what is true and fact for you might not be true and fact for others please bear this in mind. I don't mind people saying their personal experiences but some people don't state their own experience they state others (who they may or may not know) which may or may not be true as a solid irrefutable fact as to why a certain product should not be used.

There are exceptions like everything like wen products . Also have you ever gotten no more tears baby shampoo in your eyes? I have it burns like hell just like every other soap. no soap to me is tear free.

Also draw backs to lye based shampoo bars are around on par with normal shampoo's if the lye based shampoo bars are made right i.e no lye heaviness. but that is my view.

Again to me trying to use a scare tactic " but remember beautiful long hair can take 10 yrs to grow and it takes less than an hour to cut if all off". You can have beautiful long hair and use lye based shampoo it all depends on you and your hair! and if you really can be bothered taking care of it.

Dixiedragon the issue with that to me is unless your going to a DR who is qualified to say ya or nae  that x item was the reason why your hair fell out causing your follicle died in the first place then it is just a unproven claim. Most lye based soaps that are done right varies from ph 8-10 some say up to 11 but weary of that. Again all of my normal shampoo and conditioners range around the same ph of 8-10 as a lye base soap. Do you know the normal ph range for a surfectant based shampoo? My own lye base shampoo bar has a ph of 8-9 so I think ph wise my bar soap is ok once compared to my normal shampoo's and such. 

Also I want to point out that there are two  known factors can cause hair follicles to die permanently and completely: hereditary baldness and scarring. Hereditary baldness affects hair follicles, causing them to shrink and become more superficially rooted in the skin, according to MayoClinic.com.As the condition progresses, hair growth becomes finer and weaker. Eventually the follicle closes and dies completely, resulting in complete, permanent baldness. Scarring of the skin tissue may also permanently kill hair follicles, preventing further hair growth.

Hair also goes through phases of active growth, death and rest called the anagen, catagen and telogen phases. The anagen phase lasts approximately two to six years, during which hair grows 1 centimeter every four weeks. During the catagen phase, follicles undergo a cyclical, temporary death. During the telogen phase, the hair sheds. So again the issue is proving if  it's the complete death of a follical and if it's based on genes or on what your using to wash your hair or it might just be going through a phase.

Also I have used soap nuts in the past and I used them with amla, retha and shikaki (believe that's how they are spelled)  boiled it all down in water til I got about half of what I stated with and used it with a ACV rinse which while it left my hair nice and soft and shiny (which is what my lye base shampoo soap and citric acid rinse is doing now) only down side was it was watery and hard to make sure I did not over use or under use. But my hair was nice so it is a option if my shampoo bar sucks!

While I thank those being concerned etc and stating their own experiences, again it does not make it a 100% irrefutable fact it just makes it fact for you and your hair type.


----------



## cmzaha (Jul 23, 2018)

*gain to me trying to use a scare tactic " but remember beautiful long hair can take 10 yrs to grow and it takes less than an hour to cut if all off". You can have beautiful long hair and use lye based shampoo it all depends on you and your hair! and if you really can be bothered taking care of it. *

Not a scare tactic, just putting it out there. In my 30 plus years of working with hair, I saw many things go wrong and many go right. Simply do what you want, I simply stated what can happen. Not my hair not my risk....  I also did not find it off topic. You asked why your hair was greasy from the soap, so either to much free oil in the bar or your scalp is reacting with higher oil, since the bar soap is more stripping


----------



## Obsidian (Jul 23, 2018)

Linda, no one is using scare tactics or trying to be rude, you are just taking the advice the wrong way. 

People are just trying to help. Many members here, myself included has had their hair completely ruined by lye based soap. 

It took two years for the damage to catch up with me. In those two years, I loved my shampoo bars and tried to get everyone I know to switch. Then suddenly my hair started breaking off in huge chunks, I had the shave my head. Not short, shaved, like a man.

I had everyone I gave shampoo bars stop using them. I didn't want to be responsible for damage to their hair.

Yes, some people can use lye based soap with no issues but most can't. You might not notice the damage until it's too late.

Curious, how are you testing the ph of your products? The strips are notorious for being wrong. I really can't imagine commercial shampoo having such a high ph.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 23, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> *gain to me trying to use a scare tactic " but remember beautiful long hair can take 10 yrs to grow and it takes less than an hour to cut if all off". You can have beautiful long hair and use lye based shampoo it all depends on you and your hair! and if you really can be bothered taking care of it. *
> 
> Not a scare tactic, just putting it out there. In my 30 plus years of working with hair, I saw many things go wrong and many go right. Simply do what you want, I simply stated what can happen. Not my hair not my risk....  I also did not find it off topic. You asked why your hair was greasy from the soap, so either to much free oil in the bar or your scalp is reacting with higher oil, since the bar soap is more stripping



Again I did NOT ask why my hair was greasy I chalked it up to my hair getting use to the shampoo bar (in hind sight I also think the hard water don't help) I also stated what was going on with my hair. At no point did I ask why my hair was like that period please get that right. I DID however ask can I use FO's to make a hair refresher nothing more.

Again shampoo's and even conditioners strip oil from the hair which leads to over production which shampoo bars can do the same both can be harsh. The difference one has quite a few synthetics that I personally react to on does not, I know how wrong hair can go from bad shampoo's and conditioners to hair dye and bleach in fact I have fried my hair about 3 times with bleach in the last 10 years I have no bald spots right now I'm happy to report.  The issue I have is all these issue that most are stating can be found in normal shampoo's conditioners hair dyes etc it's not just lye based.

In my opinion Shampoo (like shampoo bars) do not condition hair it strips it of oils, Conditioners are said to add moisture but if used on their own they strip the hair just like shampoo. the only reason shampoo and conditioner seem to make hair soft and look healthy is demithicone.

Obsidian I want to start off with where did I say or imply people to be rude? if anything I implied I might be rude with out meaning to be. Scare Tactics is a strategy intended to manipulate opinion about a particular issue/item by arousing fear or alarm, sorry but by saying your hair will fall out you will go bald etc etc if you use lye based products are a scare tactic of sorts specially when the same can happen if you use non lye based shampoos etc. I had strips and my husband bought me something like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07FDYS5S6/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 I used both and both seem to be with in ph 0.5-1 of each other. I also tested all my own shampoo and conditioners which total around to 6-8 different brands. These are my findings with what I have available to me this is also my personal experience with my own hair etc. Again while I respect your views one must remember nothing works for everyone I also knew for the most part the possible issues which funny enough are the same with normal shampoo. I'm sorry lye base did not work for you and I understand why you would be worried about other people whom you gave shampoo bars too I would be worried as well but they may or may not have had issues like yours. Also I'm curious did you go to a dr and ask for their input or maybe have some sort of test(s) run? truly I am sorry you went through that but that's not to say it will happen to me or anyone else

I really wish people would get back on track to the original question I asked which is not got anything to do with me shampooing with lye based soap but if I can use a FO to make a hair refresher.


----------



## Obsidian (Jul 23, 2018)

*the only reason shampoo and conditioner seem to make hair soft and look healthy is demithicone*

Just wanted to address this real quick. Yes, cones (demithicone or similar) do coat the hair and disguise any damage or dryness but not all shampoo or conditioners contain this.
I have a skin condition on my scalp that cones aggravate. I use sulfate and cone free hair products. My hair is soft and shiny so there are options besides products loaded with cones, they are just hard to find.

I also can't use oils, waxes or most other mainstream type conditioner ingredients. It's a bit of a nightmare at times. Lye soap did wonders for my scalp, I really wish I could have continued using them.

You might also check etsy for natural hair perfumes. I would think if you want to use fo in water, you'll need some kind of emulsifier. I'm lazy when it comes to stuff like that so I tend to just by it.

You can also find solid conditioner bars on etsy, the one I tried left a lot of scent behind but I think it probably had cones too. If you look around enough, you could probably find one that doesn't.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 23, 2018)

I have a issue finding nice sulfate and cone free products that smell nice to me and leave my hair feeling half nice and come in decent size bottles that's one reason I turned to making my own lye base shampoo bar because of that. I think I will have a look at esty for hair perfumes so thank you for that. I will admit I tried a shampoo bar and conditioner bar from Lush UK and loved them but I really don't want to kill over $20+ for both but good god they smelled wonderful! Another reason to try and make my own. If it don't work for me it don't work and I'll admit defeat here on the forums.


----------



## cmzaha (Jul 23, 2018)

I was not going to give this thread any more attention but I do not appreciate of being accused of using scare tactics. I simply stated hair can be damaged and fall out due to using lye soap, did not say it would. You brought up using soap bars no one else, so it was in the OT. One common thing with new soapmakers, they think soap is the answer for everything, including skin issues. Lye based soap is not good for everyone and some simply cannot use it.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 23, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> I was not going to give this thread any more attention but I do not appreciate of being accused of using scare tactics. I simply stated hair can be damaged and fall out due to using lye soap, did not say it would. You brought up using soap bars no one else, so it was in the OT. One common thing with new soapmakers, they think soap is the answer for everything, including skin issues. Lye based soap is not good for everyone and some simply cannot use it.



I simply stated hair can be damaged and fallout with normal shampoo and conditioner it's not limited to lye based products not my fault you keep stating issues that can happen with other non lye based products which and equal to a scare tactic of sorts even if your not meaning it to be you also assume this is solely directed at you which it is not even tho I quoted your text.

Yes I stated I'm using a lye based shampoo bar but that was not off topic (OT) as you claim but part of the reason behind me asking my question, but for at least two of your comments you state as a fact that my question was about greasy hair while using lye based shampoo bars when it clearly was not.

I don't think soap is the answer for everything nor did I say it was  but it would make my life more simple if I could just use it as a all in one and I never said it was good for everyone which is quite clear. Also is this how you treat new soap makers or just ones that disagree with you and point out the issues you state can be found in normal shampoo and conditioners? 

While you say you have years of experience with hair you don't elaborate in what capacity  you have that experience i.e just based on your own experience with your own hair, hair dresser or Trichologist etc.

I personally do not like that you feel it is ok for you to look down your nose at new soap makers people like that are what put off new soap makers from asking questions and stating their own opinions because they do not wish to be lambasted in any form.  I personally don't like how you go on about the issues/risks of lye base shampoo bars when fact of the matter is normal shampoo's and conditioners can have the same issues/risks which you seem to disregard/ignore. and I personally really dislike that you stated as a fact at lest 2 different times that my question was about greasy hair while using a lye base shampoo bar  and now try to say I took my own topic off, off topic buy giving a back story as to the reason why I'm asking my question.

Again while I thank everyone for telling me their experiences, and given advice, what happens to one won't happen to another.  Yes soap is not the answer to everything nor is it good for everyone  nor is looking down your nose at new soap makers and ignoring the facts that similar issues happen between lye base and non lye base products.  Maybe it would be best if we both ignored each other for awhile or indefinitely as I don't like being treated less then because I'm a new soap maker.


----------



## Obsidian (Jul 23, 2018)

lindakschickens said:


> I have a issue finding nice sulfate and cone free products that smell nice to me and leave my hair feeling half nice and come in decent size bottles that's one reason I turned to making my own lye base shampoo bar because of that. I think I will have a look at esty for hair perfumes so thank you for that. I will admit I tried a shampoo bar and conditioner bar from Lush UK and loved them but I really don't want to kill over $20+ for both but good god they smelled wonderful! Another reason to try and make my own. If it don't work for me it don't work and I'll admit defeat here on the forums.



I hear ya, I went through a few brands before I found Acure but I dont think its available in the UK. It smells nice, uses only natural scents and feels great without any waxy build up. The shampoo cleans really well too. My hair is fairly damaged from dye so I was very excited to find something that actually works.

I never have tried lush, I've heard some pretty awful things about them and stay far, far away.  I do like the synthetic detergent bars I've tried though, I get ones that are SLS free and they are nice, spendy though.

Good luck with your shampoo bars, you might be one of the lucky ones that they work great for. Watch out for dryness and crunchy ends, either of those start to happen, ditch the bars. Don't wait for extreme damage like I did.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 23, 2018)

Would like to state it is not my intention to be rude to anyone nor claim any single person of doing something i.e scare tactics etc. But it seems some are not willing to look at both sides or even listen to my valid points which is annoying as I'm sure everyone will agree.

Obsidian your right I don't think Acure is over here (yet) but thankfully I have my parents in the USA that can maybe send me stuff if this lye base shampoo bar fails. So I will look in to Acure .
I have heard a few negatives about lush but not enough to put me off fully but I'm sure there will come a day when they do either through price of products or stance in environment, politics etc. Which I hope they never do as I am in love with their Caca Rouge henna!

Dryness and crunchy that is the same issue I had with my other normal shampoos and conditioners. But I will look out for that in my shampoo bar hopefully I will be lucky and it will work for me and my family. My hubby used it tonight did not leave his hair greasy or anything feels really nice to be truthful but I'm sure he ain't keen on smelling like roses LOL


----------



## Obsidian (Jul 23, 2018)

Did you know dry crunchy ends can be a sign of mineral build up from hard water? There are special shampoos that will dissolve the minerals. One of the best is Joico clarifying, you should be able to get it but it definitely has sulfates, not sure about cones. 
I have a homemade mineral remover but it involves using some kind of shampoo. It would help remove the soap scum too. Let me know if you are interested in it.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 23, 2018)

Obsidian said:


> Did you know dry crunchy ends can be a sign of mineral build up from hard water? There are special shampoos that will dissolve the minerals. One of the best is Joico clarifying, you should be able to get it but it definitely has sulfates, not sure about cones.
> I have a homemade mineral remover but it involves using some kind of shampoo. It would help remove the soap scum too. Let me know if you are interested in it.


If it helps with mineral build up and soap scumb I'm in I like testing things if you have not noticed lol. Thanks again


----------



## Obsidian (Jul 23, 2018)

Sounds like me lol. Take 2-3 vitamin C tablets, crush into a fine powder and mix into roughly 1/4 cup shampoo. Apply to damp hair, lather well and let sit for 10 minutes. Rinse well and shampoo again to remove residue. Condition if needed or apply a liberal amount of fresh aloe gel.
Do not use if you have fun colored hair, it will fade the color. It shouldn't bother your henna, it doesn't mine. It can also fade regular box dye.
This can be a bit drying for some people but its never bothered my hair, leaves it soft, shiny and manageable. I use it every month or so, it also seems to help my seborrheic dermatitis.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 23, 2018)

Obsidian said:


> Sounds like me lol. Take 2-3 vitamin C tablets, crush into a fine powder and mix into roughly 1/4 cup shampoo. Apply to damp hair, lather well and let sit for 10 minutes. Rinse well and shampoo again to remove residue. Condition if needed or apply a liberal amount of fresh aloe gel.
> Do not use if you have fun colored hair, it will fade the color. It shouldn't bother your henna, it doesn't mine. It can also fade regular box dye.
> This can be a bit drying for some people but its never bothered my hair, leaves it soft, shiny and manageable. I use it every month or so, it also seems to help my seborrheic dermatitis.


Sounds like what I needed when I dyed my hair blue green good that stuff was a pain to shift!. Thanks I'll try that with one of the shampoos I have that is sls,paraben, minerial oil etc free. Sadly I bought it when I was seeing my parents over Thanksgiving last year and it's way cheaper there it's Shea moisture it's the only thing my head and hair has not reacted to but it's like $20 per shampoo and conditioner over here and they don't even carry the kids line as it was great for my DD.


----------



## Obsidian (Jul 23, 2018)

I've heard good things about shea moisture, I can't use it myself do to all the oils. I belong to a hair forum, the member are quite fanatical about hair care, I've asked them for UK brand recommendations.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 23, 2018)

Obsidian said:


> I've heard good things about shea moisture, I can't use it myself do to all the oils. I belong to a hair forum, the member are quite fanatical about hair care, I've asked them for UK brand recommendations.


My hair and may daughters love the oils I think this is due to our genes as my family tree has Native American Indian and possibly African American on my mother's side but no one is willing to say ya or nae to African American which I find sad really.

But we do have to watch out how much and how often we oil our head and hair.

There is a hair forum?


----------



## earlene (Jul 23, 2018)

Just a note on how to elicit the kinds of responses/solutions to a specific question/problem that you really want to hear about.  Please bear with me, as this is meant in the most sincere hoping to find a road to a solution kind of way.  Perhaps simply mentioning only that part of the topic and leaving out the rest would make it less likely for folks to react to the hot button topics. 

I have to apologize for not reading through your first post in this thread before I started responding the first time.  I did not see your question until the end of the post, but by that time, I had already thought of sharing my experience on the first part of that post.  Then I saw the question (after hitting send) and did respond to that specifically in my next post.

Regarding the shortcoming of formulating an answer before I finish reading the post, I am guilty, and I do have to work on that.  I try not to do that in F2F conversations, but it's harder in the written format, for some reason.

Incidentally, if you do intend to look up that youtube I mentioned, I wish I could give you the link, but unfortunately I lost it when my hard drive failed a few months ago.

NB: Although your thread title says what it says, some folks, me included, use the new posts link at the top and open them all up at once, then just read through without realizing what forum they're in let alone the actual thread title.  Not an excuse, just a fact.


----------



## Obsidian (Jul 23, 2018)

lindakschickens said:


> My hair and may daughters love the oils I think this is due to our genes as my family tree has Native American Indian and possibly African American on my mother's side but no one is willing to say ya or nae to African American which I find sad really.
> 
> But we do have to watch out how much and how often we oil our head and hair.
> 
> There is a hair forum?



Yes there is, its a forum focused on care and growing to extreme lengths.  https://forums.longhaircommunity.com/forum.php

This is one of the responses I got about UK products.
I like the Noughty range, everything is sulphate and silicone free. Superdrug stock some of the products, otherwise they can be ordered online. Full price is about £7 a bottle but they’re usually on offer somewhere. I was looking earlier today and Feel Unique are doing 3 for 2, or discounts on individual products.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 23, 2018)

earlene said:


> Just a note on how to elicit the kinds of responses/solutions to a specific question/problem that you really want to hear about.  Please bear with me, as this is meant in the most sincere hoping to find a road to a solution kind of way.  Perhaps simply mentioning only that part of the topic and leaving out the rest would make it less likely for folks to react to the hot button topics.
> 
> I have to apologize for not reading through your first post in this thread before I started responding the first time.  I did not see your question until the end of the post, but by that time, I had already thought of sharing my experience on the first part of that post.  Then I saw the question (after hitting send) and did respond to that specifically in my next post.
> 
> ...


I will be looking up what you stated. I get what you mean and have no problem with people jumping in I do have issue tho when someone is told the real question but disregards it and/ the ops own experience/ info. I normally take everything with a grain of salt and weigh it against like things like lye vs non lye products in this case.

Obsidian thank you I'll check both out!


----------



## Obsidian (Jul 24, 2018)

@lindakschickens here are a couple more suggestions. Make to sure read ingredients, I didn't check these brands.

*Kind natured or Maui moisture, which is on offer in Boots*

and

*Natura Siberica 
*

*
*


----------



## cmzaha (Jul 24, 2018)

YOU are the rude one. BTW Licensed Cosmetologist with several additional certificates if you must know. I do not look down my nose at anyone so take it as you want


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 24, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> YOU are the rude one. BTW Licensed Cosmetologist with several additional certificates if you must know. I do not look down my nose at anyone so take it as you want


No your the rude one as you can't seem to wrap your head around the fact it's not just lye based products that can mess up your hair plus add the fact you add all new soap makers to the same pot and state as a fact they all think the same which they don't.Great your a cosmetologist yet you still ignore the FACT that BOTH lye based and non lye base cause issues.  Why don't you block or ignore me or are you one that likes to have the last word? either way I personally don't want anything to do with you and yes you employ scare tactics in IMHO by saying lye base wrecks hair when it is a FACT  again that both lye based and non lye back can wreck hair. so good luck to whatever it is you do. ignored


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 24, 2018)

Obsidian said:


> @lindakschickens here are a couple more suggestions. Make to sure read ingredients, I didn't check these brands.
> 
> *Kind natured or Maui moisture, which is on offer in Boots*
> 
> ...


I have heard of Maui small bottles high price but if it's good and I don't need to wash my hair every day it might be worth it. I'll look into kinda nature, natura siberica and own brands from superdrug and sainburys. Thank you for letting me know about these. I will admit I bough the noughty (believe that is spelled right) shampoo and conditioner to try out. I'll admit I ended up giving in and washing my hair with my normal stuff because my husband let me know at the last minute of a company dinner (groans) and I did not feel like taking greasy looking transitioning hair to dinner. The hubby still don't like how the normal stuff makes my hair feel thin when I actually have quite thick hair he thought it was nicer and thicker when I used my lye based shampoo bar. So next course of action is try and use up all my non lye base (turns out family and friends don't like the brands I have) don't want to waste it and slowly start the transition to more natural and/or lye based products. I believe if I would have kept going my hair would have adjusted I will keep doing citric acid rinses in between washes tho as that was nice and help reduce the greasy feel.


----------



## Obsidian (Jul 24, 2018)

Have you tried using shampoo but no conditioner? Could be conditioner just weights your hair down too much.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 24, 2018)

Obsidian said:


> Have you tried using shampoo but no conditioner? Could be conditioner just weights your hair down too much.


I have tried just using shampoo but it left my hair way to dry and straw like even with me adding light easily absorbed oils in small amounts to my hair did nothing to help. I have tried just conditioner washes and for the most part it either leaves my hair just like the shampoo or it makes it look like I have not washed it in months. I have tried shampoos and conditioners for dry hair,processed hair, sensitive,baby, normal and oily and all seem to leave me with straw like hair or really greasy if I just use them on their own. If I use both they tend to make my hair feel thin and breakable. Only plus is they hair feels like silk but sadly that's a minus to cuz that's due to the silicone in it.


----------



## Obsidian (Jul 24, 2018)

I absolutely can not wash with conditioner, it leaves me a stringy mess. I'm really curious to see if your hair improves with the Vit C treatment.

How long have you been using henna? Do you get much color from the lush brand? I know when I'm using henna it makes my hair get build up from conditioner really fast.

Another nice cone free conditioner is tresemme perfectly undone but its gotten really hard to find, at least it has in the states.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 24, 2018)

Obsidian said:


> I absolutely can not wash with conditioner, it leaves me a stringy mess. I'm really curious to see if your hair improves with the Vit C treatment.
> 
> How long have you been using henna? Do you get much color from the lush brand? I know when I'm using henna it makes my hair get build up from conditioner really fast.
> 
> Another nice cone free conditioner is tresemme perfectly undone but its gotten really hard to find, at least it has in the states.


Some conditioners are better then others but I have only had 1 or 2 that I was able too just wash with but that was a few years back and don't think we have the brand here in the UK.

 Ill be going and getting some vitamin c tablets this weekend and give it a go. Also bought a shower head with built in filter thingy so hope it works at reducing some hard water. 

I have only used henna from Lush 2 times on my head I heard,read and was told I could build up color so went that route. The henna left my hair really soft and smelling really nice and did not notice build up strictly related to it.

Down side I need to re applyto my lengths as it does not seem to be holding think this is due to the last hairdresser over processing bleach in my hair. I'm pretty sure I won't be bleaching anytime soon or dyeing my hair with anything other then henna


----------



## Obsidian (Jul 24, 2018)

Lush henna is known for fading, its mostly oils with very little actual herbs in it. I would be very careful if you are using the brown colored one and ever do decide to bleach. It contains indigo, hence the brown color and indigo turns green when exposed to hair bleach.

I use straight henna, it give me a very fiery orange on my natural blonde hair. Stuff is absolutely  permanent. Even bleach won't remove it, it has to be grown out and cut off.

Pretty sure I saw tresemme on the superdrug website but I have no idea what variety, they make a ton of products.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 25, 2018)

Obsidian said:


> Lush henna is known for fading, its mostly oils with very little actual herbs in it. I would be very careful if you are using the brown colored one and ever do decide to bleach. It contains indigo, hence the brown color and indigo turns green when exposed to hair bleach.
> 
> I use straight henna, it give me a very fiery orange on my natural blonde hair. Stuff is absolutely  permanent. Even bleach won't remove it, it has to be grown out and cut off.
> 
> Pretty sure I saw tresemme on the superdrug website but I have no idea what variety, they make a ton of products.


Well that explains it then. I use caca rouge. I use their brand as it's basically chop bar add water apply wait 2-4hrs wash. With henna powder from what I have read is henna powder some sort of citrus a few other thing I can't remember off the top of my head water leave for like 12 hours give or take to cure/set up apply leave 12+hrs rinse.


----------



## bahbah1182 (Jul 25, 2018)

It's funny to me that you are so annoyed about the answers you're getting being off topic from your original question, because the last several posts have not been directly about your original question and you seem to not mind and actually seem very responsive. So, perhaps you should say that you don't want any posts that disagree or challenge what you think. Which is totally fine, but maybe clarifying that would help ease tensions.
Also, You state all your information as if it were fact, but I would dare say that you might have some of your facts wrong to the point that those said facts are essentially  opinions. Yet you accuse others of stating opinions as facts.
 You came to this forum to ask advice and get information. People are giving you their opinions and information. That is kind of them. You can do what you want with it. You don't have to listen to any of it. That being said, your asking someone for their free advice and then arguing with them when you don't like what they have to say. It seems very off putting.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 25, 2018)

bahbah1182 said:


> It's funny to me that you are so annoyed about the answers you're getting being off topic from your original question, because the last several posts have not been directly about your original question and you seem to not mind and actually seem very responsive. So, perhaps you should say that you don't want any posts that disagree or challenge what you think. Which is totally fine, but maybe clarifying that would help ease tensions.
> Also, You state all your information as if it were fact, but I would dare say that you might have some of your facts wrong to the point that those said facts are essentially  opinions. Yet you accuse others of stating opinions as facts.
> You came to this forum to ask advice and get information. People are giving you their opinions and information. That is kind of them. You can do what you want with it. You don't have to listen to any of it. That being said, your asking someone for their free advice and then arguing with them when you don't like what they have to say. It seems very off putting.


The issues with your comment is I don't care of I'm challenged I don't care if people agree with me and now at this point I don't care if it's strayed from my original question as I highly doubt it would ever get back on track. My facts are based on research and personal experience of normal hair care and what's in it. Again I have thanked those for commenting even the one who I do not wish to have anything to do with. Also some have stated their opinion as fact and seem unable or willing to except that lye and non lye base can be harsh even the so called gentle stuff. That's based on research and experience. If someone is going to state something like lye base with make you lose your hair or something along the lines they are going to be challenged to one degree or another.


----------



## LilyJo (Jul 25, 2018)

At the risk of starting things off again I'm curious whats your background? 

You have called out people who dont subscribe to your view on what lye based products can and cant do and have said that your facts are based on research and experience (pretty much the same as others have said) so I am curious to read your sources.  Trying to go as 'green' as possible has thrown all sorts of products my way and once you add in a desire to go cruelty free/palm free I can pretty much rule out a whole heap of products.

So, lye based soap used as shampoo doesnt agree with me but you have said your sources indicate that commercial products will produce a similar level of damage over time, can you link to the source as I am curious to see what research they did, over what time and which ingredients were the main problems and what their sample pool was.


----------



## Obsidian (Jul 25, 2018)

lindakschickens said:


> Well that explains it then. I use caca rouge. I use their brand as it's basically chop bar add water apply wait 2-4hrs wash. With henna powder from what I have read is henna powder some sort of citrus a few other thing I can't remember off the top of my head water leave for like 12 hours give or take to cure/set up apply leave 12+hrs rinse.



You can mix henna with some kinda of acid but it really doesn't do much besides dry out your hair.

I mix with plain hot tap water, let it dye release for a few hours then pop it in the freezer until I'm ready to use it. I also add a bit of orange EO to help with the smell.

The longer you leave it on your hair, the darker the stain but 12 hours isn't necessary. I only do a hour, maybe hour & half.

There is a henna subforum at the hair forum I linked you to. Lots of great info there and we have a resident henna expert who is very helpful. Lots of pictures too of before and after.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 25, 2018)

No I called people out for stating one is more harmful then the other when both are harmful to one extent or another as both are made to strip the body and hair of oils that is their basic purpose. pretty much the same as others uh don't fully agree with that one. My sources are various and I normally compare the overall consensus of any given product or item used in making said product there are a plethora of various researches and personal experiences google it you will find loads. I will include some links below these are a few I browsed at various points normally cross ref the info and see about a general consensus on any given item. 

And let me make this more clear I stated commercial hair care products produce varying degrees of damage which when I  compared this to various personal experiences of others with  lye base shampoos they are similar in their varying degrees of damage. Major difference between lye based and commercial (non lye based) products are most of the major ingredients in commercial (non lye base) are know irritants to a lot of people which I am one of them. I never once said lye base was the way to go and the only way, if you like your main stream product and can use it no problem great use it if you can't find a alternative .
I did say synthetic detergent/surfectant  can be just as harmful as the all strip oil from your skin and hair as that is their main function. Both lye based and non lye base can over strip your hair and body of oils  which can lead to over production of oils which then can cause issues.

Saying one is worse then the other to me is wrong as both have positives and negatives which is what I have been saying. A lot of people can't (or don't want to) use one but they can use the other and there is nothing wrong with that but again saying one is worse then the other and not take everything that is used to make them (both lye and non lye based) into consideration and add the fact both are made to strip oils you bound to get people hitting back. 

for example this place https://livelovefruit.com/12-toxic-ingredients-to-avoid-in-shampoo/ lists various issues with items found in main stream hair care products while I know some of what is stated is agree on by a large consensus i.e irritants  the other stuff I am unsure where their info comes from.

or https://www.huffingtonpost.com/vanessa-cunningham/dangerous-beauty-products_b_4168587.html

or https://riatta.com.au/green-health/toxinc-ingredients-best-selling-shampoos/ this is a company so may have inaccurate info and or using fear tactics to sell natural products

or https://www.healthy-holistic-living...icals-found-in-nearly-100-shampoo-brands.html

I can't seem to find the links against lye base shampoo bars. But most people complained about greasy hair some said it made their hair dry was over stripping etc (some of these same issues can be found in main stream hair care products). 

Some of these are older and new info is out there you will have to sift through it

My background? well I'm no cosmetologist (still thinking about it) or Dr ect.  I do study holistic/natural/ alternative health like reiki, aromatherapy, yogo, colour therapy. I am close to getting my certificate for CBT,  NLP, reflexology (hand and feet) and level 1 Reiki. If thats the type of background your asking for. I have years of personal  experiences of mainstream shampoo,conditioner and hair dye which are sadly a large part negative!

And thanks Obsidian I'm totally checking out that form now!


----------



## LilyJo (Jul 25, 2018)

OK - for me none of those links pass my critical thinking test - they are blogs, articles or commercial outlets that all have a vested interest or at the very least their own agenda.

Some of what they say is correct, some is anecdotelly correct and some is just plain wrong.  I am not a qualified chemist (some of the people on here are and know far more about which compounds are damaging than most people!) but have read enough on cosmetic ingredients to have formed my own opinion on much of the greenwashing and scaremongering that exists these days. There are so many truths, half truths and just plain misinformation that unless one is 100% up to speed its really easy to miss stuff. Take L'*h products, often touted as green and ethical, the last time I checked they still used SLS as standard in many products and they are no stranger to using fragrance oil, no matter how their marketing dress it up!

For anyone to say that something does or does not cause damage is always an opinion unless it is backed up with facts that can be quoted and proven. My view, for what its worth, is that almost everyone on SMF - especially the more established members - have been around the block a few times and have seen many of the same questions and same fads come and go. No one can tell you or anyone else what to do but we all have an opinion based on our experience, the experience of those around us, scientific journals, product testing and review, commercial product testing and so on.

There is an opinion - based on experience - that soap used as shampoo is damaging and causes severe hair damage.  That opinion does not agree with yours - also based on experience.

Are you both right?  Or both wrong?  Neither. 

No one knows the full background of anyone's hair (unless they are taking a full medical/cosmetic assessment) and what causes someone's hair to fall out or break using soap may or may not do the same to someone else but it doesnt mean that the claim is wrong it means that someones experience causes them to have that experience and they are giving you that information for you to do with what you will. 

Just as an aside, if you are thinking of a hair perfume to formulate you could look at something similar to Wild Wash which is used for dogs - bear with me - as that is something that works on a different Ph level and has a no nasties policy.

http://www.wildwash.co.uk/p/4498/WildWash-PRO-Perfume-Fragrance-No1-200ml

Not suggesting you use it but it might be useful as a starting point of formulating your own.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 25, 2018)

LilyJo said:


> OK - for me none of those links pass my critical thinking test - they are blogs, articles or commercial outlets that all have a vested interest or at the very least their own agenda.
> 
> Some of what they say is correct, some is anecdotelly correct and some is just plain wrong.  I am not a qualified chemist (some of the people on here are and know far more about which compounds are damaging than most people!) but have read enough on cosmetic ingredients to have formed my own opinion on much of the greenwashing and scaremongering that exists these days. There are so many truths, half truths and just plain misinformation that unless one is 100% up to speed its really easy to miss stuff. Take L'*h products, often touted as green and ethical, the last time I checked they still used SLS as standard in many products and they are no stranger to using fragrance oil, no matter how their marketing dress it up!
> 
> ...



Again I just copied some of the sites I remember reading never said they were 100% right either just pointing it out still doing research. Again I was only pointing out to those who basically said lye base was damaging that all products cause damage not just lye based some it seems did just not want to except what I said, was also not happy that they "attacked" another user because they felt they were slighted by them thus annoying me thus snowballing everything. Also thank you for letting me know about wild wash. I did make a hair refresher with my FO I added it to water,jojoba and sweet almond oil smells great to.

Also have lush shampoo bars they do have SLS in their products my hair is left very dry from them and their conditioners are not much better they smell great tho.


----------



## MKLonestar (Jul 25, 2018)

lindakschickens said:


> Obsidian. God I wish I had sauve over here in the UK that is like the only shampoo I never reacted to and the only shampoo and conditioner brand my father will use he says everything else makes his hair feel like slime and gack is on it. Was told apple cider vinegar or citric acid ( if I did not want to smell acv). And what is  a chelator?



Is it possible to order Suave on Amazon in the UK? I know that I can get a lot of products from the UK on Amazon shipped here to the US, but don't know if that is a reciprocal thing or not. You might check it out and see. Yes, it might cost a little more, but our hair, as women are our "glory" and taking good care of it is important.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 25, 2018)

MKLonestar said:


> Is it possible to order Suave on Amazon in the UK? I know that I can get a lot of products from the UK on Amazon shipped here to the US, but don't know if that is a reciprocal thing or not. You might check it out and see. Yes, it might cost a little more, but our hair, as women are our "glory" and taking good care of it is important.


Good point did not think of seeing about if it's on amazon uk thanks for putting that out there. I'll admit tho I don't see my hair as a "crowing glory" just another thing to wash with added baggage of brushing every few hrs cuz it knots easily. Only reason why I am now keeping it long is because of my husband and I much prefer not to hear him moan about me buzzing my hair off again.


----------



## earlene (Jul 25, 2018)

That is so funny, Linda.  I keep my hair long because it feels to me like so much less work than short hair.  Of course I do have to brush it once in a while, but I keep it in a braid most of the time and the knots only happen when I leave it loose.

Granted, I did go through pretty much all the hair shenanigans pretty much any teen and young woman can go through during my youth and beyond.  Super long, super short, various trendy hair styles, perms, coloring, tinting, bleaching, dual color dyes, etc. as well as doing the baking soda washing method for about 2-1/2 to 3 years.  

When I donated my long braid 10 years ago, I thought I'd go back to short hair again and boy did I go through a difficult adjustment period trying to find a hair length and style I could be comfortable with.  I couldn't, so I just stopped cutting it, even the bangs; once the bangs grew out enough to stay in my braid, I was happy with my hair again.  So much less work!


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 25, 2018)

earlene said:


> That is so funny, Linda.  I keep my hair long because it feels to me like so much less work than short hair.  Of course I do have to brush it once in a while, but I keep it in a braid most of the time and the knots only happen when I leave it loose.
> 
> Granted, I did go through pretty much all the hair shenanigans pretty much any teen and young woman can go through during my youth and beyond.  Super long, super short, various trendy hair styles, perms, coloring, tinting, bleaching, dual color dyes, etc. as well as doing the baking soda washing method for about 2-1/2 to 3 years.
> 
> When I donated my long braid 10 years ago, I thought I'd go back to short hair again and boy did I go through a difficult adjustment period trying to find a hair length and style I could be comfortable with.  I couldn't, so I just stopped cutting it, even the bangs; once the bangs grew out enough to stay in my braid, I was happy with my hair again.  So much less work!


U did the baking soda thing for 2-3 years! wow did it work for you? right now now I have about 1/4 left side of my head buzzed short and the rest is long hubby likes it but said I can't go shorter then a pixie cut. Think it might have been because I kept joking that from my forehead up I looked like john cena (wrestler) LOL. 

Think the reason why I don't like long hair is up until I was about 12-13 years old I was forced to have long hair and it was down to my butt I hated it add being plus size to it to and the jokes never ended.  would not  mind having a long braid tho as it has been ages I remember loosely braiding my hair when it was wet at night and removing the braid in the morning have have soft curls.


----------



## Dahila (Jul 25, 2018)

Well, I can not use commercial shampoos due allergies, probably sensitivity to much of preservative (I think) my scalp becomes itchy like hell.  I make syndet shampoo (synthetic shampoo bar ) for the last 5 or 6 years and never any reaction or itchiness. I have skin condition, which is aggeviated by most of commercial products.  Like everyone else I used "shampoo bar aka soap on my hair , I quit after two months.  Awful,  I war my hair very short so in not time it was like before, but I would never use soap on it again.  The best source is swiftmonkey, blog.ca but she had deleted the old blog,  So if you need to get into blog you need to pay at least one dollar a month  You still can find the recepies on Dish forum too


----------



## LilyJo (Jul 25, 2018)

Dahila said:


> Well, I can not use commercial shampoos due allergies, probably sensitivity to much of preservative (I think) my scalp becomes itchy like hell.  I make syndet shampoo (synthetic shampoo bar ) for the last 5 or 6 years and never any reaction or itchiness. I have skin condition, which is aggeviated by most of commercial products.  Like everyone else I used "shampoo bar aka soap on my hair , I quit after two months.  Awful,  I war my hair very short so in not time it was like before, but I would never use soap on it again.  The best source is swiftmonkey, blog.ca but she had deleted the old blog,  So if you need to get into blog you need to pay at least one dollar a month  You still can find the recepies on Dish forum too



Ah thats why I couldnt find my links to swiftmonkey!


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 25, 2018)

Dahila said:


> Well, I can not use commercial shampoos due allergies, probably sensitivity to much of preservative (I think) my scalp becomes itchy like hell.  I make syndet shampoo (synthetic shampoo bar ) for the last 5 or 6 years and never any reaction or itchiness. I have skin condition, which is aggeviated by most of commercial products.  Like everyone else I used "shampoo bar aka soap on my hair , I quit after two months.  Awful,  I war my hair very short so in not time it was like before, but I would never use soap on it again.  The best source is swiftmonkey, blog.ca but she had deleted the old blog,  So if you need to get into blog you need to pay at least one dollar a month  You still can find the recepies on Dish forum too


Thanks for sharing wonder why she deleted the old blog..syndet?


----------



## earlene (Jul 25, 2018)

Linda, the baking soda wash worked pretty well a lot of the time.  Other times, not.  There was the usual adjustment period as so many people write about, which was a pain, but as long I didn't travel, and the water softener at home was well stocked with softener salt.  Hard water without the water softener seemed to play havoc with that regimen, at least for my hair & scalp, it did.  My hair and scalp never did respond well to the ACV rinse, so I gave up on that part of it.

The worst trouble for me was that every time I traveled, and I do that a lot, the differences in water seemed to make a huge difference in how I responded to the soda wash.  It was weird and made no sense to me, but the only thing I could come up with that was a common factor, was the difference in water from one place to another.  Hubby thought maybe it had to do with eating differently on the road, but then why would the same thing happen at home if we ran out of water softener salt?  

I still don't really understand the mechanics of how or why the different minerals in the different waters made such a big difference, but when I traveled, it was like going through that whole adjustment period all over again.  Sometimes, it was so annoying, I'd just use hotel shampoo for the duration of the trip and then have to do the re-adjustment again when I got back home.  It became such an annoyance, that eventually I just stopped altogether. 

Besides all that, I have to say that making up the baking soda wash every time I wanted to clean my hair is something I don't miss.  It's so much easier to get in the shower and see a bottle of shampoo on the shelf ready to go.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 25, 2018)

earlene said:


> Linda, the baking soda wash worked pretty well a lot of the time.  Other times, not.  There was the usual adjustment period as so many people write about, which was a pain, but as long I didn't travel, and the water softener at home was well stocked with softener salt.  Hard water without the water softener seemed to play havoc with that regimen, at least for my hair & scalp, it did.  My hair and scalp never did respond well to the ACV rinse, so I gave up on that part of it.
> 
> The worst trouble for me was that every time I traveled, and I do that a lot, the differences in water seemed to make a huge difference in how I responded to the soda wash.  It was weird and made no sense to me, but the only thing I could come up with that was a common factor, was the difference in water from one place to another.  Hubby thought maybe it had to do with eating differently on the road, but then why would the same thing happen at home if we ran out of water softener salt?
> 
> ...


Defo sounds easier then baking soda wash every time for a hair wash I did try it before I grabbed normal shampoo n conditioner my hair looked like I dumped castor oil on it and went yup thats the look im going for.


----------



## Dahila (Jul 26, 2018)

earlene she had enough,  People were taking information from her blog made,  Ebooks with it and sell to people.  She had shared tons of in years.  It is time for her to get paid, You have choice of $1,3,10 Ten backs will give you a lot of benefits if you can afford it,  E-zinne monthly.  I do support her cause it is worth it,   She is awesome
link for people who want to go there;  https://swiftcraftymonkey.blog/blog/
shop e-courses and you will find how to subscribe to blog


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 26, 2018)

Dahila said:


> earlene she had enough,  People were taking information from her blog made,  Ebooks with it and sell to people.  She had shared tons of in years.  It is time for her to get paid, You have choice of $1,3,10 Ten backs will give you a lot of benefits if you can afford it,  E-zinne monthly.  I do support her cause it is worth it,   She is awesome
> link for people who want to go there;  https://swiftcraftymonkey.blog/blog/
> shop e-courses and you will find how to subscribe to blog


Did she try to go after them? I mean some stuff on blogs are free but normally they say you can use it personally not for reproduction with out credit to x. Feel bad that there are people like that.


----------



## earlene (Jul 27, 2018)

Dahila said:


> earlene she had enough,  People were taking information from her blog made,  Ebooks with it and sell to people.  She had shared tons of in years.  It is time for her to get paid, You have choice of $1,3,10 Ten backs will give you a lot of benefits if you can afford it,  E-zinne monthly.  I do support her cause it is worth it,   She is awesome
> link for people who want to go there;  https://swiftcraftymonkey.blog/blog/
> shop e-courses and you will find how to subscribe to blog


?

Oh, I think you meant 'LillyJo'.


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Jul 27, 2018)

Dahila said:


> earlene she had enough,  People were taking information from her blog made,  Ebooks with it and sell to people.  She had shared tons of in years.  It is time for her to get paid, You have choice of $1,3,10 Ten backs will give you a lot of benefits if you can afford it,  E-zinne monthly.  I do support her cause it is worth it,   She is awesome
> link for people who want to go there;  https://swiftcraftymonkey.blog/blog/
> shop e-courses and you will find how to subscribe to blog


Thanks for posting that, Dahila. I had no idea. Good for her!!!


----------



## Dahila (Jul 27, 2018)

earlene said:


> ?
> 
> Oh, I think you meant 'LillyJo'.


Someone from Australia whole web site copied from Susan , ebooks copied word by word from Susan


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 27, 2018)

Dahila said:


> Someone from Australia whole web site copied from Susan , ebooks copied word by word from Susan


I hope she went after them.


----------



## Dahila (Jul 27, 2018)

lindakschickens said:


> I hope she went after them.


Susan can not do much , the b*** deleted the website but the money she received for about two years is hers.   She did not even change the titles of books,  People on fb startem to bash Susan for selling her books,  they do not get into their heads that she spends tons of time and so far she was sharing for years for free,  I support her , even I do not use the blog that much.  She does deserve it.


----------



## earlene (Jul 27, 2018)

Dahila said:


> Someone from Australia whole web site copied from Susan , ebooks copied word by word from Susan


My ? mark was about who you were responding to.  I think you meant to respond to another poster and not myself, as a subscriber to Point of Interest (SwiftCraftyMonkey - Susan Barclay Nichols), I am aware of these issues.

It was *LilyJo* who in post #78 mentioned her links no longer working.



*But just for others who may not have kept up:*

Susan also quit using Patreon, so you may want to check the site for that information and make adjustments to how your subscription gets paid.  Patreon was not working out for her very well at all and she has moved her blog and posts elsewhere.


----------



## lindakschickens (Jul 27, 2018)

Dahila said:


> Susan can not do much , the b*** deleted the website but the money she received for about two years is hers.   She did not even change the titles of books,  People on fb startem to bash Susan for selling her books,  they do not get into their heads that she spends tons of time and so far she was sharing for years for free,  I support her , even I do not use the blog that much.  She does deserve it.


Some people are trash.  I think if you put loads of time and effort in something you should get something back from it. Feel bad for her that some guttering trash would do that.


----------



## Sally Scheibner (Jun 27, 2021)

cmzaha said:


> Many times a topic takes on a life of it's own and will lead to other discussions. If you are calling me out as rude so be it. OP asked why her hair is greasy using shampoo bars aka soap bars. I know you have mentioned using them for years that is great, but do not call us "Rude" for trying to warn someone of the very possible repercussions of using soap. Charles from the Wen product got his backside sued big time and his soap based shampoo is now off the market. I really do not know why you would think the posts should be removed. Not all lab made surfactants are bad, without them we would not have No Tear Baby Shampoo and would be buring the children's eyes with "Soap," which is probably not a great thing to do. Using a bar soap for hair once a week may never catch up, using it multiple times per week, may very well catch up. We all have choices, and we were just trying to point out what could happen. "Could" not guarantee
> 
> I really do not think I need to be "Forgiven," for hopefully mentioning they are risking damage, but to say you use it with great success if okay, Hum.... I shall now slink away, but remember beautiful long hair can take 10 yrs to grow and it takes less than an hour to cut if all off.


I have used my jojoba & marula homemade shampoo after 1 yr cure. It cleans nicely but leaves a residue even after rinsing w/ diluted vinegar 20/1. I also have tried toothpaste and catfish bait soap. Use both with great results.


----------

