# Sodium Hydroxide in Lotion?



## MissE (Dec 13, 2017)

My first real-life contact with sodium hydroxide came from soapmaking. Imagine my surprise when I saw sodium hydroxide on the label while shopping for a lotion/cream for the season yesterday. I grabbed a few more at random and scrutinized the labels, and sure enough sodium hydroxide showed up quite a bit. I didn't know they added tthat to lotions and creams!

Question, what might be the function of sodium hydroxide in a lotion?


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## DeeAnna (Dec 13, 2017)

It's used to adjust the pH of the product to keep it within proper limits. No big deal.


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## toxikon (Dec 13, 2017)

Susan has a little blurb about it here! :mrgreen:

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ca/2014/01/weekend-wonderings-are-bath-melts-safe.html



> *WHY WOULD WE FIND SODIUM HYDROXIDE IN A LOTION?*
> Rosi asks: I have some body lotion from the store and there is sodium hydroxide on the ingredient list, what does it bring to the lotion?
> 
> Sodium hydroxide could do one of three things in a lotion...
> ...


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## jcandleattic (Dec 13, 2017)

Once you start recognizing ingredients, you will notice them in a lot of stuff. Especially NaOH. I never realized until after making soap that NaOH is an ingredient in pretzels and other types of Irish and German breads (and probably other nationalities as well).


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## Dahila (Dec 13, 2017)

Buffering solution in lotions


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## DeeAnna (Dec 13, 2017)

With respect, NaOH is not a buffer, Dahlia. It is a strong base and dissociates almost completely. A buffer (like soap) by definition does not dissociate (break apart) easily.


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## MissE (Dec 13, 2017)

Thanks, everyone, for weighing in.


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## SunRiseArts (Dec 13, 2017)

jcandleattic said:


> Once you start recognizing ingredients, you will notice them in a lot of stuff. Especially NaOH. I never realized until after making soap that NaOH is an ingredient in pretzels and other types of Irish and German breads (and probably other nationalities as well).


 
when I learned that I was thinking the acids in out digestive system must be so strong. :shock:


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## Dahila (Dec 14, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> With respect, NaOH is not a buffer, Dahlia. It is a strong base and dissociates almost completely. A buffer (like soap) by definition does not dissociate (break apart) easily.


People do call it that.  I use it to higher ph in lotions when it goes to low.  
Thanks DeeAnna, so what is the proper name for this solution?
it is 10% Naoh and 90 Water


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## lenarenee (Dec 14, 2017)

I once freaked when reading the label of a whitening toothpaste....LYE??? :shock:
.


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## chela1261 (Dec 14, 2017)

A couple of weeks ago I bought a hand cream and was totally surprised to see sodium hydroxide in it. I had no idea they used it in lotions, creams etc or why


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## dixiedragon (Dec 14, 2017)

jcandleattic said:


> Once you start recognizing ingredients, you will notice them in a lot of stuff. Especially NaOH. I never realized until after making soap that NaOH is an ingredient in pretzels and other types of Irish and German breads (and probably other nationalities as well).


 
Bagels too. That's why we sometimes see lye that is labeled "food grade". 

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesal...pretzel-crust-count-on-chemistry-and-memories


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## DeeAnna (Dec 14, 2017)

Dahila said:


> People do call it that.  I use it to higher ph in lotions when it goes to low.
> Thanks DeeAnna, so what is the proper name for this solution?
> it is 10% Naoh and 90 Water



I'd call it a sodium hydroxide solution. It doesn't have any fancy name that I'm aware of.

If people are calling sodium hydroxide solution a "buffer," they're mistaken.  NaOH can be used to raise the pH, yes, but simple pH adjustment is different than adding a buffer to help stabilize the pH. There are many chemicals that could be used in a lotion to buffer the pH, but NaOH is not one of them.


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## Dahila (Dec 14, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> I'd call it a sodium hydroxide solution. It doesn't have any fancy name that I'm aware of.
> 
> If people are calling sodium hydroxide solution a "buffer," they're mistaken.  NaOH can be used to raise the pH, yes, but simple pH adjustment is different than adding a buffer to help stabilize the pH. There are many chemicals that could be used in a lotion to buffer the pH, but NaOH is not one of them.


thank you so much, someone was correcting me in the group that is not naoh solution but 'buffer solution",   I do believe in you DeeAnna you never give out wrong information.  Thank you so much


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## DeeAnna (Dec 14, 2017)

Hmmm. I'm puzzled. I guess I'd have to read the actual discussion to get a better sense of why they're saying NaOH is a buffer. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me at this point, but I suppose I might be missing something.


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## MissE (Dec 15, 2017)

toxikon said:


> Susan has a little blurb about it here! :mrgreen:
> 
> http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ca/2014/01/weekend-wonderings-are-bath-melts-safe.html




Referring to (3), does it mean there is some amount of the lotion that is actually soap?



dixiedragon said:


> Bagels too. That's why we sometimes see lye that is labeled "food grade".
> 
> https://www.npr.org/sections/thesal...pretzel-crust-count-on-chemistry-and-memories




I've wondered about the 'food grade' lye, too, is it different than the one we use for soapmaking?


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## jcandleattic (Dec 15, 2017)

MissE said:


> I've wondered about the 'food grade' lye, too, is it different than the one we use for soapmaking?



You can use food grade in soapmaking. It's not different, it's just processed differently so more impurities are taken out. I actually prefer it for soapmaking.


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## MissE (Dec 15, 2017)

jcandleattic said:


> You can use food grade in soapmaking. It's not different, it's just processed differently so more impurities are taken out. I actually prefer it for soapmaking.



Thanks, jcandleattic.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 15, 2017)

Food grade NaOH may not be any different than the non-food grade except for the degree of laboratory testing. Food grade has to meet more stringent standards for certain types of contaminants such as mercury, but it's made in the same equipment and with the same chemical process as tech grade. It's just one day they test to tech grade standards and the next day the test is to food grade standards.


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## MissE (Dec 16, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> Food grade NaOH may not be any different than the non-food grade except for the degree of laboratory testing. Food grade has to meet more stringent standards for certain types of contaminants such as mercury, but it's made in the same equipment and with the same chemical process as tech grade. It's just one day they test to tech grade standards and the next day the test is to food grade standards.




Thanks, DeeAnna. I have to wonder, does going for and using food-grade lye specifically not mean that the soap produced is that much safer for the skin? I would certainly want to avoid mercury ending up in my soap.

And is food-grade lye more expensive generally than the tech-grade one, or more difficult to find, or what?


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## DeeAnna (Dec 16, 2017)

You can buy both (or used to, anyway) at Essential Depot. I don't think there's a big difference in price.

The point about using "food grade" ingredients is that they're intended for use in food. Food grade standards for heavy metals and other contaminants are determined to protect the quality of food, especially food consumed by children who are more sensitive to heavy metal contaminants than adults. 

Soap doesn't get eaten -- and we only use a few grams of soap per day. Compare that to the weight of the food and water we consume.

If it makes you feel better to use food grade NaOH and you have a reasonably priced, reliable source, then by all means use it. If it's hard to find or the added cost is going to break the budget, then tech grade is plenty fine.


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## MissE (Dec 16, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> You can buy both (or used to, anyway) at Essential Depot. I don't think there's a big difference in price.
> 
> The point about using "food grade" ingredients is that they're intended for use in food. Food grade standards for heavy metals and other contaminants are determined to protect the quality of food, especially food consumed by children who are more sensitive to heavy metal contaminants than adults.
> 
> ...




Thank you for the guidance, DeeAnna!


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## Arimara (Dec 16, 2017)

I probably should add that when you are making pretzels and bagels with NaOH, The dough for those breads are dipped into an extremely diluted solution. The NaOh  solution helps these breads develop that distinctive "crust" on the outside that we all know and love. It's not like they put it into out bread.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 17, 2017)

Over here we brush it over with a pastry brush. That's how weak the solution is - my pastry brush survives repeated use in it. It's something like 6%


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## MissE (Dec 27, 2017)

Thanks, everyone, for the inputs. I want to report that this morning when I had to wash my hand soon after using my lotion (the one with the sodium hydroxide), I observed that there was a little bit of lather in the water


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