# Why does the alkanet not yield purple?



## gigisiguenza (Sep 11, 2015)

Made this soap yesterday, and while I love the scent (lavender and lemon blossom, with a touch of rose) and I think the colors are pretty (even though I did not achieve the butterfly swirl I was trying for) I'm frustrated by the lack of purple... I added the alkanet powder to the batchlet at trace ... but not even a hint of lavender or any purple hue to be seen... what am I doing wrong?

Any feedback is greatly appreciated


----------



## Obsidian (Sep 11, 2015)

I've only gotten purple from alkanet by infusing it in oil for a couple weeks but I had to use a lot of the oil, it wouldn't work for just a portion of the soap. Alkanet and indigo can be really tricky to use. I've given up using either, even when I do get purples and blues, they aren't nice shades.


----------



## TheDragonGirl (Sep 11, 2015)

I use mine by infusing it in oil, and then I've learned the opposite of obsidian- that I have to use less to get the purple colour! it also changes as the ph changes, and its exposed to oxigen

This is madder alkanet and charcoal

eta: (and a failed batch, do not use clay to do pencil lines)


----------



## gigisiguenza (Sep 11, 2015)

Obsidian - I'm definitely frustrated by these two persnickety colorants but I'm determined to discover the secret of their usage.

DG - I too wondered if I had used too much of the alkanet for the color to show. Some things really do require you use the barest minimum to tint or they become too muddy.
Oh and definitely noting the no clay for pencil lines advice... it was actually on my list of things to try LOL


----------



## vmakkers (Sep 11, 2015)

I tried using alkanet root to do a lavender soap and mine ended up turning green. Here's a link to the picture from the photo gallery:

http://cdn.soapmakingforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15316&stc=1&d=1437669355

I used powdered alkanet and put a pretty good amount in my oils to infuse but I only let it sit over night. I read that sometimes alkanet can go green due to the PH and may slowly morph. The alkanet root infusion turned green the moment I added it to the batter. The bars still look exactly the same colors and I cut those on 7/23. I may give it another go with the alkanet root I infused a couple of months ago to see if time makes a difference but at this point, I think I might just use purple clay for my lavender soaps. 

Question of my own now: have any of you guys experienced some scrubbyness in your soaps from infusing the oils with herbs? I had used lavender/calendula/alkanet root infused olive oil in my lavender batch and for some reason, there's like a slight grittyness to my soaps. The soaps feel smooth and fine, but you get the exfoliating grittyness when you start using the soap. It's def not undissolved lye because I always strain my lye and zap tested. I remembered seeing some gritty stuff on the bottom of the strained infused oil but didn't think much of it and now I wonder if it's little bits of plant matter or some micro bits of the alkanet root that made it through the strainer.


----------



## SplendorSoaps (Sep 11, 2015)

I really like using alkanet for purples, but a little bit really does go a long way. The last batch I made with alkanet used 1/2 - 3/4 tsp. for about 2 lbs. of soap batter (not ppo). It came out a nice, deep purple.

I'd also take a look at the recipe you're using. The recipes that work the best for me with the alkanet are ones that are more white than cream colored when no colorant is used. If all else fails, there's no shame in adding a bit of TD to lighten it up the alkanet.

ETA: I'm adding a pic of my most recent alkanet soap, Lavender Rosemary. This one is curing, should be ready to use in a week or so.


----------



## cmzaha (Sep 11, 2015)

I have never had any success with Alkanet for purple and gave up on it a long time ago. I can get a pretty purple with Blue Food Coloring easier than fooling around with alkanet. My most favorite for purple is Lavender Fields Ultramarine


----------



## Dahila (Sep 11, 2015)

I tried once infused oil and the color is ok but I find it a kind of cold color if it make sense.  It is one color.  I can not see using infused oil in swirls....


----------



## gigisiguenza (Sep 12, 2015)

SplendorSoaps said:


> I really like using alkanet for purples, but a little bit really does go a long way. The last batch I made with alkanet used 1/2 - 3/4 tsp. for about 2 lbs. of soap batter (not ppo). It came out a nice, deep purple.
> 
> I'd also take a look at the recipe you're using. The recipes that work the best for me with the alkanet are ones that are more white than cream colored when no colorant is used. If all else fails, there's no shame in adding a bit of TD to lighten it up the alkanet.
> 
> ETA: I'm adding a pic of my most recent alkanet soap, Lavender Rosemary. This one is curing, should be ready to use in a week or so.



Hmmmm. I'm sure I used more than that and your usage/results confirm what I was already thinking - that I was using too much and it's making it muddy. I will definitely try using less for the next experiment. TY


----------



## gigisiguenza (Sep 12, 2015)

vmakkers said:


> I tried using alkanet root to do a lavender soap and mine ended up turning green. Here's a link to the picture from the photo gallery:
> 
> http://cdn.soapmakingforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15316&stc=1&d=1437669355
> 
> ...



I'm fascinated by the fact that it turned green. Wonder what the heck made it do that?


----------



## gigisiguenza (Sep 12, 2015)

I think I'm going to do a small batch of soap and split it out into several batchlets to try each incorporation method for the alkanet powder. Hmmmm. Planning .....


----------



## TheDragonGirl (Sep 12, 2015)

gigisiguenza said:


> I think I'm going to do a small batch of soap and split it out into several batchlets to try each incorporation method for the alkanet powder. Hmmmm. Planning .....



Ooo do post pictures of the result


----------



## gigisiguenza (Sep 12, 2015)

TheDragonGirl said:


> Ooo do post pictures of the result



DG I will for sure. Once I started planning this, I realized I really want to do this for all the natural colorants I have on hand. I'm struggling with what to use for molds because I don't have a very big selection of options available to me at the moment.


----------



## TheDragonGirl (Sep 12, 2015)

gigisiguenza said:


> DG I will for sure. Once I started planning this, I realized I really want to do this for all the natural colorants I have on hand. I'm struggling with what to use for molds because I don't have a very big selection of options available to me at the moment.



have you considered washed out yogurt cups and things?


----------



## gigisiguenza (Sep 12, 2015)

TheDragonGirl said:


> have you considered washed out yogurt cups and things?



DG - yes, and if I had been smart I woulda been saving them up all along for emergency soapy needs LOL. Instead I've been throwing them out like a dope. But I did find something interesting in the laundry closet.I bought these at the dollar store eons ago for hauling cupcakes to work for whatever. This is the bottom, that holds the cupcakes, and it has a domed lid. The little round hollows are 2.5 across and 1/4 in deep. Surprisingly they are pp #5 so should be safe to use. Now I've got to figure out how much total volume all nine have so I know what size mini batch to make.

The little soaps will be very shallow, but for doing testers, it should be fine, ya think?

ETA - ugh, the whole batch would be like 6 or 7 ounces total weight. That's a PITA to deal with, so this may not be the option I had hoped it would be. Still plotting ... hmmm....


----------



## Obsidian (Sep 12, 2015)

Go to the store and buy some plastic 2 ounce cups. The shape will be odd and if you end not liking it, you can always make confetti out of them.


----------



## CaraBou (Sep 12, 2015)

gigisiguenza said:


> I'm fascinated by the fact that it turned green. Wonder what the heck made it do that?



It is pH sensitive.  The best purple I got from alkanet was in batch I botched that I ended up having to hot process.  The batter was blah forest green until it was nearly done cooking; then it turned (and stayed) purple. I used about 1/4 tsp ppo, added to my fragrance.   Here's the thread:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=40965


----------



## Consuela (Sep 12, 2015)

I have ZERO luck with Indigo Root Powder... so I stopped trying... 

But Alkanet has always been good to me. I sometimes get a deep purple, or light blue look - which I really do like. It is a little speckly - even if I SB it into a small portion of the batter first...


----------



## HappyHomeSoapCo (Sep 13, 2015)

When i used alkanet c/s infused oil, my soap batter turned green too! But once cured it was a beautiful lavender! A very scary moment for me. I even posted here about it.


----------



## gigisiguenza (Sep 13, 2015)

Obsidian said:


> Go to the store and buy some plastic 2 ounce cups. The shape will be odd and if you end not liking it, you can always make confetti out of them.



Obsidian - I actually have little 3oz plastic cups, as well as 12oz. It didn't occur to me to use them as I've been so careful to only use #5 or #2 plastic or silicone for any soap to date. I've been using them for mixing colors etc, but it never occurred to me to use them for this. 

Major DUH moment LOL


----------



## gigisiguenza (Sep 13, 2015)

CaraBou said:


> It is pH sensitive.  The best purple I got from alkanet was in batch I botched that I ended up having to hot process.  The batter was blah forest green until it was nearly done cooking; then it turned (and stayed) purple. I used about 1/4 tsp ppo, added to my fragrance.   Here's the thread:
> 
> http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=40965



CaraBou - hmmm gelling might make a difference.... but I don't like gelled soap, it looks waxy to me, not creamy. Hmmmm. TY for the tip, I'm considering all the options available


----------



## gigisiguenza (Sep 13, 2015)

Consuela said:


> I have ZERO luck with Indigo Root Powder... so I stopped trying...
> 
> But Alkanet has always been good to me. I sometimes get a deep purple, or light blue look - which I really do like. It is a little speckly - even if I SB it into a small portion of the batter first...



Consuela - the indigo is giving trouble for sure. I'm still learning the quirks of using it. I'm going to order woad soon and see if that's and easier route to getting blue.


----------



## soapysarah (Sep 13, 2015)

I used some infused alkanet and it turned green when saponified - I added it at start of saponification.  I was very disappointed at the time but by next day the soap was a gentle lavender/grey colour.  I didn't use much infused oil.


----------



## gigisiguenza (Sep 13, 2015)

soapysarah said:


> I used some infused alkanet and it turned green when saponified - I added it at start of saponification.  I was very disappointed at the time but by next day the soap was a gentle lavender/grey colour.  I didn't use much infused oil.



soapysarah - I haven't tried infusing yet, so that's good to know. I'll add it to the list, TY


----------



## Obsidian (Sep 13, 2015)

Here are my past experiments with alkanet

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=50844

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=50865


----------



## cheshiresoapco (Sep 14, 2015)

I have used alkanet root powder from botanic soap.com before and got a really pretty dark purple. I did notice that it was kind of rough tho. It almost turned it into an exfoliating bar as you can feel the grains in the powder. 
It worked for me adding in very small amounts at a time that had been mixed with oil. 

When using purple mica powder from wholesalesuppliesplus.com, I did however get a brown color when I used light purple... Those are trickier then using the alkanet! Just keep playing around and keep in mind a little does go a very long way!


----------



## dixiedragon (Sep 14, 2015)

Haven't read the whole thread but my guess...

because lye is mean.


----------



## soapysarah (Sep 21, 2015)

Using an infusion keeps the soap smooth as there are no bits.  I cannot recall how much of the infused oil I used (it's in my recipe book somewhere as I keep a note of everything I do and how it turns out.)  It wasn't a lot and the resulting soap is a pale purple with a slight grey tone - very acceptable.  I've not done much on the infusing front but love playing around with recipes.  I have infused green tea and am trying out coffee at the moment.


----------



## Seawolfe (Sep 21, 2015)

I've had good luck with alkanet, Ive always infused it in olive oil and just used that, but its very possible to use too much. I typically warm infuse and then leave the infusions and use over weeks or months.

he one in the back was with bentonite clay and alkanet:






This one isnt pretty because my trace got too thick, but the purple turned out well:





I think this one was a nice bluish purple


----------



## rain_darned_owl (Oct 1, 2015)

Just saw this thread while waiting to get some supplies to colour soap naturally.  Not to take away from Gigi's planned experimenting but has anyone read the ebook from Ruth Esteves on Coloring Soap Naturally?  

I just bought it and she goes through several colorants including Alkanet root powder and shows pics when it is added at trace v.s. in the lye v.s. as an infusion.  She also shows each when gelled and not gelled.  No I have never met the author and am not a seller of books!!  Can't find the link now but if you look up the Nova Studio website/blog you can find the book and a page that shows what ingredients she tested.

The alkanet root powder looked basically the same whichever stage it was added too.  I will try some soap in the next few days with alkanet root powder and see if it matches the book.  I will try 1 tsp per pound of oils at trace.


----------

