# Soap Dough Techniques



## TashaBird (Dec 9, 2020)

I’m obsessed. So far, I’ve used left over soap batter to make soap dough. But, now I have so many ideas that I may actually make dough soon, just for dough! I’ve been using my extruder, I’ve rolled tubes, and I’ve made little balls. But, I’d like to learn what else is out there. Like have you seen some of the crazy polymer clay stuff?! Holy smokes! Rose and poppy canes, Natasha swirl.... 
What have you made? What are you interested in? Have you used cookie cutters? Please share your favorite soap dough ideas, links, videos, tools.


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## TashaBird (Dec 9, 2020)




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## glendam (Dec 9, 2020)

I like making embeds with it.  Usually sculpted ones but also with molds.  for Christmas time I use the embeds to make a hybrid/cp and mp snow globe soap.
Another use is doing soap veneers (inlaid), where you scrape the bar with a tool and fill with soap dough.
If your soap dough is sticky it works well for stenciling as well:



Also, here  is how I made my flower embeds that come so handy when a soap goes south and are just made with little balls.


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## msunnerstood (Dec 9, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> I’m obsessed. So far, I’ve used left over soap batter to make soap dough. But, now I have so many ideas that I may actually make dough soon, just for dough! I’ve been using my extruder, I’ve rolled tubes, and I’ve made little balls. But, I’d like to learn what else is out there. Like have you seen some of the crazy polymer clay stuff?! Holy smokes! Rose and poppy canes, Natasha swirl....
> What have you made? What are you interested in? Have you used cookie cutters? Please share your favorite soap dough ideas, links, videos, tools.


I have fallen down the same rabbit hole.
I have used the cutters you use for fondant. Its how I did the soap dough daisies on my latest soap. I used a 5 petal flower cutter then flattened each petal a bit and put the orange center on by making a small ball and flattening it.
I did the butterflies also with a fondant cutter but their shape I got from a clay tutorial.






Also got the bears from a clay tutorial




Ive done penguins and snowmen and gnomes from Sorcery Soap videos


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## amd (Dec 9, 2020)

In the rimmed challenge (I think in 2019) one or several participants used soap dough to create the rim.

I have used soap dough to create leaves, apple stems, balls, stacked flowers, and marshmallows. A few years ago my daughter made lollipops from soap dough for a soap topper. I'm not very artistic with modeling, so I tend to keep things simple.


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## linne1gi (Dec 10, 2020)

There's a challenge going on right now (the one sponsored by Amy Warden) and it is the lollipop swirl. However for the advanced category you have to do something on the outside of the circle, either piping, an impression mat or a soap dough rim.  I have been working on the soap dough rim and it has been such fun!  I never thought I could do it.  Here's one of the rims (not a good lollipop though).


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## TashaBird (Dec 10, 2020)

@linne1gi SUPER cute! That looks really hard.


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## linne1gi (Dec 10, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> @linne1gi SUPER cute! That looks really hard.


Thanks, it was really fun making the rim.


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## TashaBird (Dec 18, 2020)

I get the best soap dough when I vacuum seal the jars while it sets up.


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## linne1gi (Dec 18, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> I get the best soap dough when I vacuum seal the jars while it sets up.


I have Bee Lyata’s soap dough book. I use a few of them, but I like #1 the best. I find it’s good for me after about 3 days.


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## dibbles (Dec 19, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> I get the best soap dough when I vacuum seal the jars while it sets up.


I wonder how long it will take my hubby to notice I’ve repurposed yet another thing


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## TashaBird (Dec 23, 2020)

I"m back to trying to decide between two top of the line extruders. Because someday I'll have a job again... disc size and variety, price, motorized, hand crank vs pump... It's a LOT! What do you all think?
Czextruder HD & LC Disks | Lucy Clay Tools
Hobby Extruders


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## linne1gi (Dec 23, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> I"m back to trying to decide between two top of the line extruders. Because someday I'll have a job again... disc size and variety, price, motorized, hand crank vs pump... It's a LOT! What do you all think?
> Czextruder HD & LC Disks | Lucy Clay Tools
> Hobby Extruders


I have this one  https://www.amazon.com/Walnut-Hollo...ld=1&keywords=Extruder&qid=1608745934&sr=8-12


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## TashaBird (Dec 23, 2020)

linne1gi said:


> I have this one  https://www.amazon.com/Walnut-Hollo...ld=1&keywords=Extruder&qid=1608745934&sr=8-12


I have that one too. I'd like a larger capacity of dough, with the extension it only does the shortest little cane. Then I have to piece them together. And, it is brutal on the hands cranking it a ZILLION times, even to undo it! They could at least have a quick release for when it's empty!! I'm considering trying to modify it to adapt to the chrdless drill, but may wind up ruining it. If it works though, it'd be a huge improvement! So, all those issues have me comparing the two I posted above. I'd like to do a LOT more extruding!

@linne1gi When I attempt my mechanical modification of the walnut Hollow, I’ll report back here on how it goes.


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## linne1gi (Dec 23, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> @linne1gi When I attempt my mechanical modification of the walnut Hollow, I’ll report back here on how it goes.


I wish you would!


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## violets2217 (Dec 23, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> I"m back to trying to decide between two top of the line extruders. Because someday I'll have a job again... disc size and variety, price, motorized, hand crank vs pump... It's a LOT! What do you all think?
> Czextruder HD & LC Disks | Lucy Clay Tools
> Hobby Extruders


So the plates in @linne1gi link/post are similar to ones I have for a cookie press I have and never use. I wonder if I could use the soap dough in my cookie press...  What do you use the extruded soap dough for? I’m very curious!


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## linne1gi (Dec 23, 2020)

I'm pretty sure you can use your cookie press.  I personally use the extruded soap dough for embeds.  The soap I picture here has embeds - these are pretty standard - but they can get very elaborate.


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## violets2217 (Dec 23, 2020)

linne1gi said:


> I'm pretty sure you can use your cookie press.  I personally use the extruded soap dough for embeds.  The soap I picture here has embeds - these are pretty standard - but they can get very elaborate.


Cool! Thanks for the picture! I get it now! Looks like I’m gonna make some soap dough!


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## linne1gi (Dec 23, 2020)

violets2217 said:


> Cool! Thanks for the picture! I get it now! Looks like I’m gonna make some soap dough!


You'll be addicted again.  Soap dough is just like play dough (remember that?)


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## TashaBird (Dec 23, 2020)

violets2217 said:


> Cool! Thanks for the picture! I get it now! Looks like I’m gonna make some soap dough!


Embeds, but also slices on top are fun!


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## linne1gi (Dec 23, 2020)

Thanks for sharing @TashaBird! Gorgeous.


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## TashaBird (Dec 25, 2020)

Well this looks like fun!


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## violets2217 (Dec 25, 2020)

linne1gi said:


> There's a challenge going on right now (the one sponsored by Amy Warden) and it is the lollipop swirl. However for the advanced category you have to do something on the outside of the circle, either piping, an impression mat or a soap dough rim.  I have been working on the soap dough rim and it has been such fun!  I never thought I could do it.  Here's one of the rims (not a good lollipop though).



I just watched Lisa's , from I Dream in Soap, YouTube entry video for that challenge! It was pretty cool!!!



TashaBird said:


> Well this looks like fun!



And to think I have all the supplies at home to make it! I don't even know how to do soap dough yet and I still want to make this DIY extruder!


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## TashaBird (Dec 25, 2020)

violets2217 said:


> And to think I have all the supplies at home to make it! I don't even know how to do soap dough yet and I still want to make this DIY extruder!


I’ve been making my own soap dough from left over bits for awhile, and I’ve been looking at fancier extruder. Thing is, I have a powerful wood burner tool, because I do pyrography on bone. And, I’m wondering, if I do it outside, if I can cut my own end caps for this kind of extruder.
I’ve been thinking of trying the wood burner tool for makin soapscrapers.

Now there’s this guy too! Wondering if it might not be easier to have custom dies made. SUPER DUPER CLAY GUN - Scott Creek Pottery MADE IN USA


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## AliOop (Dec 25, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> Now there’s this guy too! Wondering if it might not be easier to have custom dies made. SUPER DUPER CLAY GUN - Scott Creek Pottery MADE IN USA


I have one of those, except it is a jerkey gun. Am guessing you might be able to find a used one somewhere and then make custom plates for it.


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## TashaBird (Dec 26, 2020)

violets2217 said:


> And to think I have all the supplies at home to make it! I don't even know how to do soap dough yet and I still want to make this DIY extruder!


I follow the instructions in the I Dream Of Soap YouTube video for making soap dough and I use left over batters from my regular recipes.

The Artway Extruder is so much less talked about, but the more I look at it, the more I’m considering it. My only issue with it is that to use a motor you have to use their $450 motorized version, where the Lucy has an adapter bit for a drill bit.

The Artway REALLY could use some more information on their website. I swear some folks make it way too hard to learn about their products!!! It appears as though maybe the ”ultra” version has an adapter for a drill now. If that’s the case, I may go for it. But, can’t get the stupid security feature to work on the gosh darned contact form, and I’ve tried dozens of times! FFS.


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## linne1gi (Dec 26, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> I follow the instructions in the I Dream Of Soap YouTube video for making soap dough and I use left over batters from my regular recipes.


I have Bee Lyata’s book on soap dough. There are at least 17 recipes in the book for soap dough as well as detailed instructions.


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## TashaBird (Jan 1, 2021)

linne1gi said:


> I have Bee Lyata’s book on soap dough. There are at least 17 recipes in the book for soap dough as well as detailed instructions.


So far I’ve just used left over bits from my pull through soaps. There’s always a few ounces. I’ll even design a pull through just to have certain colors of dough that i want for something. So, I will probably use the same recipe when I finally do make soap JUST for dough. I did get a response from Bee in her Facebook group about the stickiness of some dough recently and she suggested reducing the amount of water. So, I may try that sooner than later.


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## linne1gi (Jan 1, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> So far I’ve just used left over bits from my pull through soaps. There’s always a few ounces. I’ll even design a pull through just to have certain colors of dough that i want for something. So, I will probably use the same recipe when I finally do make soap JUST for dough. I did get a response from Bee in her Facebook group about the stickiness of some dough recently and she suggested reducing the amount of water. So, I may try that sooner than later.


I find that after wrapping the soap dough in plastic wrap, it’s best to wait 3 days. After that time, the dough is no longer sticky.  I don’t mind making soap dough, I don’t fragrance it, so it’s easy.


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## TashaBird (Jan 1, 2021)

linne1gi said:


> I find that after wrapping the soap dough in plastic wrap, it’s best to wait 3 days. After that time, the dough is no longer sticky.  I don’t mind making soap dough, I don’t fragrance it, so it’s easy.


I wrap it in plastic wrap and then vacuum seal it in a container. Mine is usually ready after 3 days. But, I have a new source of tallow that is much softer than I’m used to. I don’t care for the softer tallow, but now I have to use it. I think that’s why my dough is behaving differently than I’m used to.


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## linne1gi (Jan 1, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> I wrap it in plastic wrap and then vacuum seal it in a container. Mine is usually ready after 3 days. But, I have a new source of tallow that is much softer than I’m used to. I don’t care for the softer tallow, but now I have to use it. I think that’s why my dough is behaving differently than I’m used to.


You’re right, change one ingredient and it’s all different.


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## TashaBird (Jan 1, 2021)

First attempt at using a cookie cutter to make an embed. I think this is where one of those rolling machine that looks like a pasta maker would come in handy. It is hard to roll the dough out even.


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## linne1gi (Jan 1, 2021)

I just use my rolling pin - I use parchment paper on top on the soap dough - sort of a soap dough sandwich.


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## TashaBird (Jan 1, 2021)

linne1gi said:


> I just use my rolling pin - I use parchment paper on top on the soap dough - sort of a soap dough sandwich.


The differences with the rolling pin are starting to add up when I’m trying to piece a zillion of these together. It’s not much, but I think the roller thing might be better for this. Or maybe I need a bigger rolling pin. This was just a test anyway. I’ve got to make more of the color I need.


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## violets2217 (Jan 1, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> The differences with the rolling pin are starting to add up when I’m trying to piece a zillion of these together. It’s not much, but I think the roller thing might be better for this. Or maybe I need a bigger rolling pin. This was just a test anyway. I’ve got to make more of the color I need.


I've used a guide before when I needed to roll something evenly with a rolling pin. I glued two dowel rods the width of my rolling pin and rolled dough between it with the rolling pin on the dowels. I just used hot glue and it peeled right off my old nasty laminate countertop.


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## linne1gi (Jan 1, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> The differences with the rolling pin are starting to add up when I’m trying to piece a zillion of these together. It’s not much, but I think the roller thing might be better for this. Or maybe I need a bigger rolling pin. This was just a test anyway. I’ve got to make more of the color I need.


I also have a small rolling thingy, bought on Amazon, but it isn’t great, because it has no heft like the regular rolling pin does.


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## TashaBird (Jan 1, 2021)

violets2217 said:


> I've used a guide before when I needed to roll something evenly with a rolling pin. I glued two dowel rods the width of my rolling pin and rolled dough between it with the rolling pin on the dowels. I just used hot glue and it peeled right off my old nasty laminate countertop.


Get outta here with y’all’s good idea when I’m trying to buy a new toy!  JK, I’d rather buy supplies. The guide is a great idea, thank you!


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## msunnerstood (Jan 2, 2021)

Im going to be cutting out soap dough hearts to put on the soap I just poured after its cut. It works really well when the bars are just cut. Ive done it with daisies before and they stuck just like it was always part of the bar.


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## TashaBird (Jan 2, 2021)

msunnerstood said:


> Im going to be cutting out soap dough hearts to put on the soap I just poured after its cut. It works really well when the bars are just cut. Ive done it with daisies before and they stuck just like it was always part of the bar.


You just smoosh the hearts into the surface of the bar when the bar is still soft? Do you let the hearts harden a little?


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## msunnerstood (Jan 2, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> You just smoosh the hearts into the surface of the bar when the bar is still soft? Do you let the hearts harden a little?


I cut the bars, roll out and cut the hearts, spread a little water on the back of the hearts, place them and lightly press them on evenly. no smooshing needed. see page 1 for the daisies i did the same way.


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## msunnerstood (Jan 2, 2021)

its still too soft to bevel or clean up but here are the hearts I attached


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## TashaBird (Jan 22, 2021)

Moving this right to the top of my list to try! I don’t think I have any brown micas of any kind though.


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## linne1gi (Jan 22, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> Moving this right to the top of my list to try! I don’t think I have any brown micas of any kind though.



I highly suggest Mad Micas: hot man on a tin roof!


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## TashaBird (Jan 22, 2021)

linne1gi said:


> I highly suggest Mad Micas: hot man on a tin roof!


Is that a color?


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## linne1gi (Jan 22, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> Is that a color?


Yes, it’s the beautiful brown I have ever seen.


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## sarahmarah (Jan 22, 2021)

I did a pink grapefruit soap dough cane for the half and half unchallenge a while back. It was a learning process for sure. Hard to keep the size of the cane from growing too large...I would say for soap dough—Its a fun medium once in a while but the sheer amount of time put into crafting with it tends to be a big con for me...


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## violets2217 (Jan 22, 2021)

@TashaBird .... so question! I had frosting left over from my last soap and I put it in an air tight container for a couple days and then when I remembered it I kneaded it and press it into some flower silicone molds. How long does it take the dough to dry and able to come out of the molds? Just curious, I just keep poking at them and it's still kinda squishy so I'm scared to pop 'em out, but yet getting impatient to see what they look like!!! 



TashaBird said:


> Is that a color?


 Mad Micas are pretty awesome micas! they are so bright and true! My first pink frosting was Mad Micas Tickled Pink!


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## TashaBird (Jan 22, 2021)

violets2217 said:


> @TashaBird .... so question! I had frosting left over from my last soap and I put it in an air tight container for a couple days and then when I remembered it I kneaded it and press it into some flower silicone molds. How long does it take the dough to dry and able to come out of the molds? Just curious, I just keep poking at them and it's still kinda squishy so I'm scared to pop 'em out, but yet getting impatient to see what they look like!!!


I haven’t tried soap dough in a mold yet. So, please report back when you try. I would probably put them in the freezer for an hour first, and then let them sit for 15 minutes to sweat, then pop out carefully, and not touch them for a day or two.


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## violets2217 (Jan 22, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> I would probably put them in the freezer for an hour fir


I DIDN'T EVEN THINK OF THE FREEZER! I always utilize the freezer when I'm being impatient, which is always!!! But it's been kinda fun to poke at 'em every time I walk by! Thanks!


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## TashaBird (Feb 12, 2021)

Hey y’all. I made this red soap dough a few weeks ago. I took it out a week ago and sprinkled it with more red mica because it really faded. (Weird because the gelled soap was a good red.) then I wrapped it back up and vacuum sealed it again. 
I took it out and tried to use it with a cookie cutter I bought for a specific project. I did a test w the cookie cutter on a different batch and it worked great! This batch is nice and smooth and workable, but still a bit sticky. It mucks up the cookie cutter. 
I sprinkled it with arrowroot, smooshed it in real good, wrapped it back up for a day. 
It’s still just a bit too sticky to for the cookie cutter.
What else can I do? 
Can I leave it out for awhile unwrapped? I don’t want it to harden.
Advice appreciated.


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## Guspuppy (Feb 15, 2021)

Soap dough..... I just cut my challenge entry soap which after two days in the mold is still super soft. I have leftover ends and thin slices. I can put these in a ziplock baggy and they will stay soft for future embed use?? I've never done any embedding.


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## glendam (Feb 15, 2021)

Guspuppy said:


> Soap dough..... I just cut my challenge entry soap which after two days in the mold is still super soft. I have leftover ends and thin slices. I can put these in a ziplock baggy and they will stay soft for future embed use?? I've never done any embedding.


Yes, you can.  If when you are working with it, it is too sticky, you can use a little bit of cornstarch.


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## TashaBird (Feb 15, 2021)

glendam said:


> Yes, you can.  If when you are working with it, it is too sticky, you can use a little bit of cornstarch.


I already used cornstarch. It hasn’t helped.



Guspuppy said:


> Soap dough..... I just cut my challenge entry soap which after two days in the mold is still super soft. I have leftover ends and thin slices. I can put these in a ziplock baggy and they will stay soft for future embed use?? I've never done any embedding.



Try to get as much air out as possible. Then in a few days take it out and work it real good. Then vacuum seal again and save.

Another soap dough question. I’m trying soap dough squished into these molds. I’ve put them on a heating pad. Will they gel? Or is it too late? All dough is at least a month old.


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## Marsi (Feb 15, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> Another soap dough question. I’m trying soap dough squished into these molds. I’ve put them on a heating pad. Will they gel? Or is it too late? All dough is at least a month old.


your soap is already saponified
all heat will need to be added externally to "gel" your soap dough
if your heat pad can get hot enough, add insulation over the top of the soap

CPOP might work better
use the same heating technique as you would for soap "welding"
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/smf-july-2020-challenge-welded-soap.79925/


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## Guspuppy (Feb 15, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> Try to get as much air out as possible. Then in a few days take it out and work it real good. Then vacuum seal again and save.



Rats I should have waited for an answer. I tried smooshing it together and it seemed too dry already so I wet my hands and tried that way but all it did was lather up.  So I crumbled it into the beveling scraps pitcher to be used in confetti soap!


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## TashaBird (Feb 15, 2021)

Guspuppy said:


> Rats I should have waited for an answer. I tried smooshing it together and it seemed too dry already so I wet my hands and tried that way but all it did was lather up.  So I crumbled it into the beveling scraps pitcher to be used in confetti soap!


When I got to clean my hands after working with soap dough, and all I need is water, cause the “mess” is soap! Makes me smile!! I’ve had more than a few attempts that turned to rocks and wound up in confetti bin.


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## SoapWitch (Feb 16, 2021)

dibbles said:


> @SoapWitch I've been following the stencils. Hoping you have more in stock soon!



Indeed! I'm hot on it, and working on creating such a unique collection you'll be spoiled for choice.


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## dibbles (Feb 16, 2021)

SoapWitch said:


> Indeed! I'm hot on it, and working on creating such a unique collection you'll be spoiled for choice.


Well, I have a black lab so that's a no brainer...and I know that one is available.


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## TashaBird (Feb 19, 2021)

Working on some new embeds. Hoping I ca. Get this designer to work with me in the extruder discs. Every image doesn’t translate to a useable embed. But still excited for what I’ve got so far!

Please pardon the typos.


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## SoapWitch (Feb 19, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> Working on some new embeds. Hoping I ca. Get this designer to work with me in the extruder discs. Every image doesn’t translate to a useable embed. But still excited for what I’ve got so far!


Wow! That's a massive endeavor. Good job! I'm so impressed.


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## TashaBird (Feb 21, 2021)

I’ve got some little soap dough caterpillars I’d like to paint eyes and mouth on. I’d love it if they didn’t smear too easily. Any suggestion?


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## The_Phoenix (Feb 21, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> I’ve got some little soap dough caterpillars I’d like to paint eyes and mouth on. I’d love it if they didn’t smear too easily. Any suggestion?


Maybe you could poke little eye-holes into their faces and dip a toothpick into oil-dispersed black mica and, using the same toothpick, dap that into the eye-holes? Or, if you're making soap, reserve a tiny bit of batter, add black mica and use that??


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## SoapWitch (Feb 21, 2021)

Where to begin... There is the thread that needs to be pulled to open up one's creativity.  Start with basic shapes. The Wizard of Oz incorporates basics and more complex ideas.



TashaBird said:


> @SoapWitch will activated charcoal work for black soap dough?


Indeed, it will work. If you want a saturated black I would use oxide.  It's the only time I use oxides.


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## Peachy Clean Soap (Feb 21, 2021)

linne1gi said:


> There's a challenge going on right now (the one sponsored by Amy Warden) and it is the lollipop swirl. However for the advanced category you have to do something on the outside of the circle, either piping, an impression mat or a soap dough rim.  I have been working on the soap dough rim and it has been such fun!  I never thought I could do it.  Here's one of the rims (not a good lollipop though).


Your rimmed soap looks great.  Haven't heard of this Soap Challenge sponsored by Amy Warden' where is it?


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## violets2217 (Feb 21, 2021)

Peachy Clean Soap said:


> Haven't heard of this Soap Challenge sponsored by Amy Warden' where is it?











						Soap Challenge Club
					

hosted by Amy Warden




					soapchallengeclub.com
				




A lot of the members post videos on YouTube! They are awesome!
My fav this month!


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## TashaBird (Feb 21, 2021)

violets2217 said:


> Soap Challenge Club
> 
> 
> hosted by Amy Warden
> ...



That pour makes me want to get a slab mold!


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## violets2217 (Feb 22, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> That pour makes me want to get a slab mold!


You're pretty handy, build one! LOL! I just want to try that our with one layer! it was so cool!


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## AliOop (Feb 22, 2021)

Slab molds are pretty easy to make from containers found in the Dollar Store.


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## TashaBird (Feb 22, 2021)

The red dough I made that was too sticky for the cookie cutter is working well in the fondant mold I bought. The mold is much tinier than I thought, so it’ll take several fills. I plan on using an individual cavity heart mold and putting these on top, for Mother’s Day Soaps.


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## Cheeky Goat (Feb 22, 2021)

SoapWitch said:


> Where to begin... There is the thread that needs to be pulled to open up one's creativity.  Start with basic shapes. The Wizard of Oz incorporates basics and more complex ideas.
> 
> If you'd like to explore some ideas I have over 300 free blog posts about soap dough, mostly. I also have 100's of videos up, many for basic shapes. I cover how to start with basic shapes and go over each shape.
> Everything I have shared is built on basic shapes.
> And thank you, for your compliment on my Wizard of Oz soaps.



And the books are Amazing!


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## JoyfulSudz (Feb 22, 2021)

I buy RBO at SmartFoodService (used to be called Cash n' Carry) for $11.69 a gallon.  That's only 9 cents an ounce


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## TashaBird (Feb 25, 2021)

I learned a bunch new tips from the soap stamps and stuff FB page live demo. 
Made my first big batch. Left out the scent, sugar, and SL. SB to thick trace. (That took way longer than expected!) And poured right into baggies laid flat on cool counter to prevent gelling.


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## TashaBird (Feb 26, 2021)

Dough DISASTER!
What a miserable, sad, disaster mess! I’m hoping to get some insights on what happened. It’d be great if it never happened again, to me or anyone else. Also, I really want good workable soap dough! I’ve made a ton of soap dough before, with this exact recipe when left over from scrapers or pull throughs. So, the only differences are no sodium lactate, no sugar, and no essential oil. I use EOs at %5, so that might be significant. My lye concentration, as I always use, was %33. My oils are %50 tallow, %15 coconut oil, and the rest liquid oils. Like I mentioned, I’ve made lots of soap dough with this recipe before. 
As suggested in a tutorial, I left out the sugar, fragrance, and sodium lactate. I soaped with everything at 90F. I mixed to a medium/thick trace. Poured directly into bags, then vacuum sealed the bags. There was no air. Laid them on a cold metal counter. They never got over 80F
This morning they were super hard. I opened the bags and the dough was crumbly and awful. I sprained my hand trying to massage balls of it. 
So, I busted out the food processor. Broke up the bricks, misted with water, and ground them up. Smooshed them into balls, wrapped in plastic wrap, and vacuum sealed again. I quit after the white and purple because it was too much work. I think the portion with the activated charcoal is a lost cause anyway, it’s even harder! Also, I’m not even sure it will work, they may be grainy. But, I’ll let them sit for a few weeks.
WHAT HAPPENED?! Oh wise and wonderful soap community. What should I do different next time?


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## GemstonePony (Feb 26, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> Dough DISASTER!
> What a miserable, sad, disaster mess! I’m hoping to get some insights on what happened. It’d be great if it never happened again, to me or anyone else. Also, I really want good workable soap dough! I’ve made a ton of soap dough before, with this exact recipe when left over from scrapers or pull throughs. So, the only differences are no sodium lactate, no sugar, and no essential oil. I use EOs at %5, so that might be significant. My lye concentration, as I always use, was %33. My oils are %50 tallow, %15 coconut oil, and the rest liquid oils. Like I mentioned, I’ve made lots of soap dough with this recipe before.
> As suggested in a tutorial, I left out the sugar, fragrance, and sodium lactate. I soaped with everything at 90F. I mixed to a medium/thick trace. Poured directly into bags, then vacuum sealed the bags. There was no air. Laid them on a cold metal counter. They never got over 80F
> This morning they were super hard. I opened the bags and the dough was crumbly and awful. I sprained my hand trying to massage balls of it.
> ...


If I'm pretending to be wise, the best platitude I've got is, "Don't fix what's not broken."
Substitute water for the FO/EO amount, and if your recipe usually makes good soap dough with the additives, don't remove the additives. Also, different colorants (even among Mica) do make harder or softer dough, so be prepared to add more water or oil to charcoal, TD, clay, and finely ground Micas, just as you would have to do to pre-disperse them and keep the trace slow. 
As with all recipe changes, I'd recommend a small batch of soap dough to start with, to make sure that the water instead of FO still works as dough.


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## TashaBird (Feb 26, 2021)

GemstonePony said:


> If I'm pretending to be wise, the best platitude I've got is, "Don't fix what's not broken."
> Substitute water for the FO/EO amount, and if your recipe usually makes good soap dough with the additives, don't remove the additives. Also, different colorants (even among Mica) do make harder or softer dough, so be prepared to add more water or oil to charcoal, TD, clay, and finely ground Micas, just as you would have to do to pre-disperse them and keep the trace slow.
> As with all recipe changes, I'd recommend a small batch of soap dough to start with, to make sure that the water instead of FO still works as dough.


I feel like I’m going to have to start all over to find a soap dough recipe. Maybe I can look up one of the good ones online and see if I can compare it to mine. 
I’ve got such a huge useless mess to clean up.


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## TashaBird (Feb 26, 2021)

Sorry for kvetching. It’s just not the super fun soaping day I had planned.


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## TashaBird (Feb 26, 2021)

I don’t see how mine could be so drastically different than this one. I don’t work with a lot of lard. I use tallow in everything. I just don’t understand why it made such good soap dough before and got so hard and crumbly overnight this time!
Back to the drawing board I guess.
Maybe going from lye at %33 to %30.
Then maybe also reducing tallow from %50 to %40? Increasing my avocado, castor, and RBOs?
Here is Bee’s free recipe, BTW. She also sells dough on the website.
Sorcery Soap


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## GemstonePony (Feb 26, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> I don’t see how mine could be so drastically different than this one. I don’t work with a lot of lard. I use tallow in everything. I just don’t understand why it made such good soap dough before and got so hard and crumbly overnight this time!
> Back to the drawing board I guess.
> Maybe going from lye at %33 to %30.
> Then maybe also reducing tallow from %50 to %40? Increasing my avocado, castor, and RBOs?
> ...


My unscientific theory: your soap was hard because the liquid content (FO and sugar) was lower, and crumbly because the sodium lactate wasn't helping it hold together. If the recipe makes a good dough without those things, you wouldn't want to add them, but if it makes a good dough with those things, I wouldn't remove them.


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## TashaBird (Feb 26, 2021)

GemstonePony said:


> My unscientific theory: your soap was hard because the liquid content (FO and sugar) was lower, and crumbly because the sodium lactate wasn't helping it hold together. If the recipe makes a good dough without those things, you wouldn't want to add them, but if it makes a good dough with those things, I wouldn't remove them.


Ok. I’ll back up and do a small batch with sugar and SL, and increased water to equal EO removed. Do you think I should also change the ratios of hard and liquid fats?


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## GemstonePony (Feb 26, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> Ok. I’ll back up and do a small batch with sugar and SL, and increased water to equal EO removed. Do you think I should also change the ratios of hard and liquid fats?


I would just sub water for FO for now. If that doesn't work, then maybe try Bee's recipe, rather than reinvent the wheel.


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## TashaBird (Feb 26, 2021)

GemstonePony said:


> I would just sub water for FO for now. If that doesn't work, then maybe try Bee's recipe, rather than reinvent the wheel.


Shoot. I should just make a big batch of pull throughs (which at least I can do!) and use the left overs for dough. That’s been working. This was my loaf recipe though, which is %50 tallow, and my pull through is %30. Hmmm


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## GemstonePony (Feb 26, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> Shoot. I should just make a big batch of pull throughs (which at least I can do!) and use the left overs for dough. That’s been working. This was my loaf recipe though, which is %50 tallow, and my pull through is %30. Hmmm


Wait, if the pull-through recipe gives good dough, why wouldn't you make a batch of that for dough?


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## AliOop (Feb 26, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> Shoot. I should just make a big batch of pull throughs (which at least I can do!) and use the left overs for dough. That’s been working. This was my loaf recipe though, which is %50 tallow, and my pull through is %30. Hmmm


Ugh, so sorry for the stressful day. Having to toss our precious ingredients is heart-breaking!

I think you and GP probably just nailed it: you changed the additives, AND you added a lot more of a hard oil that makes very hard soap. And I agree with GP that it's probably worth making a small batch of your pull-through recipe just for soap dough, since you know it works.


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## TashaBird (Feb 26, 2021)

GemstonePony said:


> Wait, if the pull-through recipe gives good dough, why wouldn't you make a batch of that for dough?


It makes little bits at a time. I’ve got a huge extruder, large discs, and a bigger loaf mold. And I’ve got big dreams! Big dreams.


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## TashaBird (Feb 26, 2021)

GemstonePony said:


> Wait, if the pull-through recipe gives good dough, why wouldn't you make a batch of that for dough?


Oooooh! Make a whole batch of pull through recipe for soap dough. Yeah. That’s what I should probably do. I’ve got a loaf recipe (%50 hard) and a pull through recipe (%30 hard). I might split the difference with a higher water content, like from %33 down to %30.


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## TashaBird (Feb 26, 2021)

I have made good SD from my loaf recipe too. But it did have higher water and %5 EOs PPO.
Thanks for empathizing my frustration and loss from today. It was a learning moment. Painful, because as I often do, I got ahead of myself. I really did think it was gonna be right on!


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## GemstonePony (Feb 26, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> Oooooh! Make a whole batch of pull through recipe for soap dough. Yeah. That’s what I should probably do. I’ve got a loaf recipe (%50 hard) and a pull through recipe (%30 hard). I might split the difference with a higher water content, like from %33 down to %30.


Yes! Exactly! I'd still start with a small batch just to be sure, but let us know how it goes.


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## Jersey Girl (Feb 26, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> I have made good SD from my loaf recipe too. But it did have higher water and %5 EOs PPO.
> Thanks for empathizing my frustration and loss from today. It was a learning moment. Painful, because as I often do, I got ahead of myself. I really did think it was gonna be right on!



Have you tried Sorcery Soap free recipe. It’s very simple and she says it makes a great dough. It’s the one that’s 50% Lard, 30% CO, and 20% Soybean although she says you can use Olive or Castor which I would do personally. 
She uses 33% lye concentration


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## TashaBird (Feb 26, 2021)

Jersey Girl said:


> Have you tried Sorcery Soap free recipe. It’s very simple and she says it makes a great dough. It’s the one that’s 50% Lard, 30% CO, and 20% Soybean although she says you can use Olive or Castor which I would do personally.
> She uses 33% lye concentration


I posted that recipe above. But, I Have used my regular soap recipe before, and I’m hoping to just stick with it. 
Do you think embeds made with that SS recipe will weld into my soap ok? I kind of worry about that.


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## KimW (Feb 26, 2021)

Ugh - frustrating indeed.  I'm sorry, Tasha!
I've been thinking about and following this post all day.  I've been wondering:  Is there a reason you want to use a different recipe from your pull-through recipe for soap dough?  If you know that recipe works, why change anything - even the water amount?  I'm guessing I've missed something and there's something about the soap dough from that recipe that isn't quite right...(?)

Follow those big dreams, lady!!


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## Jersey Girl (Feb 26, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> I posted that recipe above. But, I Have used my regular soap recipe before, and I’m hoping to just stick with it.
> Do you think embeds made with that SS recipe will weld into my soap ok? I kind of worry about that.



Yes. I think it will work with your soap. I would give it a try.


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## dibbles (Feb 26, 2021)

I've used the Sorcery Soap recipe, and it makes very nice soap dough. I think it would work as an embed in your soap. I would make sure it gels and only test a small batch to be sure though.


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## glendam (Feb 27, 2021)

A I agree with @GemstonePony.  Colorants with TD and clays, can do that. I lost a soap dough mini batch to activated charcoal as well.  Hopefully you can still use it, it does seem like moisture was lost in either lack of EO vs before, or by being absorbed by any of the other ingredients (like Ac)


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## TashaBird (Feb 27, 2021)

KimW said:


> Ugh - frustrating indeed.  I'm sorry, Tasha!
> I've been thinking about and following this post all day.  I've been wondering:  Is there a reason you want to use a different recipe from your pull-through recipe for soap dough?  If you know that recipe works, why change anything - even the water amount?  I'm guessing I've missed something and there's something about the soap dough from that recipe that isn't quite right...(?)
> 
> Follow those big dreams, lady!!


I’d like to have some unscented, and it can take awhile for my pull rough left over batter to firm up enough. So, I’m going to try to meet in the middle given all these factors.



dibbles said:


> I've used the Sorcery Soap recipe, and it makes very nice soap dough. I think it would work as an embed in your soap. I would make sure it gels and only test a small batch to be sure though.


I don’t have any lard, so I’m going to give it another go with a variation on my regular recipes, given what I learned in this fiasco. Also, this will be a smaller batch!
I watched a tutorial recently that said to specifically prevent gelling. Like keep everything under 90F, pour into a plastic airtight bag, lay flat on a cool counter. Can you explain a bit about why you say to make sure that it does gel?


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## TashaBird (Feb 27, 2021)

Now that I’ve recovered from my “Soap DOH!” experience, as the hubs called it, I’ve got a plan for a test batch. Hoping to use a variant on my regular recipe, so that I don’t have to buy new ingredients, (and so it jives with my soap, if that’s a thing).
Uncertain still about adding the sugar, and the lye %. SS recipe is %31.6.
What do y’all think?


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## dibbles (Feb 27, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> I’d like to have some unscented, and it can take awhile for my pull rough left over batter to firm up enough. So, I’m going to try to meet in the middle given all these factors.
> 
> 
> I don’t have any lard, so I’m going to give it another go with a variation on my regular recipes, given what I learned in this fiasco. Also, this will be a smaller batch!
> I watched a tutorial recently that said to specifically prevent gelling. Like keep everything under 90F, pour into a plastic airtight bag, lay flat on a cool counter. Can you explain a bit about why you say to make sure that it does gel?


I meant to gel the final soap with the embed in place. You don’t want your soap dough to gel. Sorry I confused you.


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## TashaBird (Feb 27, 2021)

dibbles said:


> I meant to gel the final soap with the embed in place. You don’t want your soap dough to gel. Sorry I confused you.


AH! That makes sense. Glad I asked. Thanks for clarifying.


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## TashaBird (Mar 29, 2021)

I just saw this cool tool in a sorcery soap dough FB group. For folks with hand issues, this could be great! Thought I’d put it here. NeverKnead polymer clay tool. 
The NEVERknead Polymer Clay Kneading (Conditioning) Machine Tool for all clay


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## earlene (Mar 30, 2021)

I guess it depends on your hand issues.  I prefer kneading to using a tool I have to grip and press down on.  With my Dupuytren's, kneading is actually therapeutic, whereas gripping or squeezing certain things requires me to wear padded gloves to decrease pain (which I do when I drive, for example.)


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## Pamela Carver (Mar 30, 2021)

The black lab is cute. I made my first one last weekend. Now to make some plain bars of soap to stencil <3


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## AliOop (Mar 30, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> I just saw this cool tool in a sorcery soap dough FB group. For folks with hand issues, this could be great! Thought I’d put it here. NeverKnead polymer clay tool.
> The NEVERknead Polymer Clay Kneading (Conditioning) Machine Tool for all clay


Interesting... look closely and you can see that it is a bench (arbor) press! This is the same tool we were discussing over in the bath bomb thread, with a flat disk attachment on the pressing end. As handy as you are, Tasha, I bet you could buy the $69 version of the bench press for making bath bombs, and rig up the flat disk attachment when you want to knead soap dough.

Edited: if you look at their parts page, it says right there that it is an arbor press, and that if you have one of those already, they will sell you just the end pieces needed to use it for kneading.


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## glendam (Mar 30, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> I just saw this cool tool in a sorcery soap dough FB group. For folks with hand issues, this could be great! Thought I’d put it here. NeverKnead polymer clay tool.
> The NEVERknead Polymer Clay Kneading (Conditioning) Machine Tool for all clay


it is definitely handy for polymer clay, I have it.  I haven’t tried it with soap dough as usually my soap dough is soft enough already.  Interesting about possibly using for bath bombs, I will look into that


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## TashaBird (Mar 31, 2021)

AliOop said:


> Interesting... look closely and you can see that it is a bench (arbor) press! This is the same tool we were discussing over in the bath bomb thread, with a flat disk attachment on the pressing end. As handy as you are, Tasha, I bet you could buy the $69 version of the bench press for making bath bombs, and rig up the flat disk attachment when you want to knead soap dough.
> 
> Edited: if you look at their parts page, it says right there that it is an arbor press, and that if you have one of those already, they will sell you just the end pieces needed to use it for kneading.


I like massaging my dough. It’s a good workout for my hands. But, I had seen other folks on here using tools for kneading, and I thought this was another cool option to add to the list. I thought it looked too small for bath bombs. But, maybe it could work for the little ones.


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## AliOop (Mar 31, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> I like massaging my dough. It’s a good workout for my hands. But, I had seen other folks on here using tools for kneading, and I thought this was another cool option to add to the list. I thought it looked too small for bath bombs. But, maybe it could work for the little ones.


Oh interesting, I assumed it was the same size as the ones the youtubers use for bath bombs. Thanks for clarifying.


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## TashaBird (May 22, 2021)

Any tips on how to blacken up my black soap dough? I used oxide for the first time and didn’t use enough. Now it’s grey.


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## GemstonePony (May 22, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> Any tips on how to blacken up my black soap dough? I used oxide for the first time and didn’t use enough. Now it’s grey.


My best bad idea: Disperse a bit more black oxide in a tiny bit of oil using one corner of a plastic bag, which you will not be able to clean. Carefully snip the corner, add it to the soap dough, and work it in thoroughly using gloves, which will also turn black or at least gray.


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## Cheeky Goat (May 22, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> Any tips on how to blacken up my black soap dough? I used oxide for the first time and didn’t use enough. Now it’s grey.



I would add a little more next time. It’s a tricky balance to get it dark enough to be black, but not so dark that it sheds black oddly.


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## TashaBird (May 22, 2021)

Cheeky Goat said:


> I would add a little more next time. It’s a tricky balance to get it dark enough to be black, but not so dark that it sheds black oddly.


I made a big bunch. I’d rather not waste it. I may add AC as I use it.


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## Tara_H (May 22, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> Any tips on how to blacken up my black soap dough? I used oxide for the first time and didn’t use enough. Now it’s grey.


This is the point at which I would normally use my food processor to blend in a little more colour at a time until I got the result I wanted... But be warned! I did this for over an hour once and caused the blade housing to melt! So I recommend using this technique in moderation


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## Jersey Girl (May 22, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> Any tips on how to blacken up my black soap dough? I used oxide for the first time and didn’t use enough. Now it’s grey.



Great colors!


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## TashaBird (May 22, 2021)

Jersey Girl said:


> Great colors!


Thanks! I’ve got some super fun new discs to play with!


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## Mscookie (May 23, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> Any tips on how to blacken up my black soap dough? I used oxide for the first time and didn’t use enough. Now it’s grey.


Kombo butter


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## TashaBird (May 23, 2021)

Mscookie said:


> Kombo butter


For what?


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## TashaBird (May 24, 2021)

One of the things I love about the big discs is the capacity of the jerky gun. I loaded it one time and made 7 18” embeds! Large discs with small designs. 
This is how I do it.


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## Johnez (May 24, 2021)

Although I'm afraid I won't use this technique for a while yet, I'm curious as to how long soap dough can remain pliable. If I keep it completely sealed do I have to worry about it drying out at some point?


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## TashaBird (May 24, 2021)

Johnez said:


> Although I'm afraid I won't use this technique for a while yet, I'm curious as to how long soap dough can remain pliable. If I keep it completely sealed do I have to worry about it drying out at some point?


I’ve kept it for months.


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## Mscookie (May 24, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> For what?


Oops sorry hun I thought I was replying to someone that inquired of making their soap darker, I use "kombo" butter often referred to as "African nutmeg". I'm new here so I will gradually get my groove right


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## Cheeky Goat (May 25, 2021)

I’ve left mine for years as long as it was very well sealed.


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## Cheeky Goat (May 25, 2021)

Cheeky Goat said:


> I would add a little more next time. It’s a tricky balance to get it dark enough to be black, but not so dark that it sheds black oddly.


Got it! I didn’t totally understand you wanted this batch darker. You can work in mica colorant to an already made batch, but it takes time to get it smooth. I pre disperse it really well in just a dash of oil or water, and then work that paste in slowly.


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## Cheeky Goat (May 25, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> One of the things I love about the big discs is the capacity of the jerky gun. I loaded it one time and made 7 18” embeds! Large discs with small designs.
> This is how I do it.



I have a jerky gun, but I got so sick of fooling with it, I got the large extruder gun from I Dream In Soap, which I then know matches with her disks. It’s amazing how much easier it is to do large batches now! 

Watermelon seeds, trees, you name it!


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## SoapWitch (May 25, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> One of the things I love about the big discs is the capacity of the jerky gun. I loaded it one time and made 7 18” embeds! Large discs with small designs.
> This is how I do it.



You clever, clever one! Well done!


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## amd (May 25, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> Any tips on how to blacken up my black soap dough?


Add a bit of blue to it. I'm not sure why this works, I'm not gifted at colors at all, but adding a small amount of blue to black will help darken the black. Use the darkest blue that you have.


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## TashaBird (Jun 15, 2021)

Can dyes be used in soap dough? This is what NS says "Cold Process Soap: Dyes are not recommended for CP soap. They tend to morph, migrate into other colors, and bleed." I'm not getting great color with the micas without going through gel phase. Maybe I just have to add more mica?


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## Johnez (Sep 12, 2021)

Thread is due for a bumparino.

I'm going to experiment with soap dough in a few weeks and have a few questions:

Can I use a single oil/fat? 

Are there specific ratios that are required (lye/water, etc)

Are there any particular ingredients that are either necessary (maybe highly recommended) or to be avoided?

I want to make single fat soap dough to make small experimental batches of shave soap by combining individual doughs in combinations to compare. Example: tallow/RBO/stearic acid vs. tallow/sunflower oil/stearic acid.


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## TashaBird (Sep 12, 2021)

Johnez said:


> Thread is due for a bumparino.
> 
> I'm going to experiment with soap dough in a few weeks and have a few questions:
> 
> ...


The soap dough I make is mostly for creating embeds in loaves of body soap. So, I’m not sure how that compares to what you’re doing with shave soap. I haven’t heard of shave soap being made from soap dough.


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## Johnez (Sep 12, 2021)

TashaBird said:


> The soap dough I make is mostly for creating embeds in loaves of body soap. So, I’m not sure how that compares to what you’re doing with shave soap. I haven’t heard of shave soap being made from soap dough.



Thanks Tasha, yes I have come across a looooot of that in YouTube. Basically the idea is to build a "collection" of single fat soap doughs to combine later in my mini crockpot to see how they perform. I'm noticing a most (all?) soap dough videos and articles focus on the artistic side. Maybe I've found my own little niche to experiment and make mistakes for others to learn from. It's way more boring than the creations you guys have come up with here so I'm not surprised heh.


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## Bubble Agent (Sep 12, 2021)

This may not be to any help regarding single fats soap dough experiments @Johnez !

But since you make shave soaps I just wanted to mention real quick that there is no problem making soap dough out of shaving soap, if you should wish to experiment with that. I know you have made some batches and wanted to venture in making them smaller so you don`t have a gazillion shaving soaps lying around during your testing. If you have some that is just sitting there, you can take them out and experiment with them as soapdough if you used dual lye and/or they are still soft`ish.

I know what you must think, no way it would just be way to sticky for a soap dough.

I have done this several times, and since shaving soap with dual lye can be very sticky (also depending on ammount of KOH)  I have found a solution that works for _me_ at least.

I actually use the very same technique for sticky soapdough, as I do making special marzipan decorations for my marzipan cakes.

Usually when soap dough is too sticky I just use a bit of *potato starch* during molding and handling, which keeps it pliable without sticking to my fingers. I do that when making roses and other flowers or figurines to go on my marzipan cakes. Others use powdered sugar, but I have never done that, I find it getting the marzipan way too sweet, and it sweats more easily too.

*Edit: *I just want to say that depending on the degree of stickiness, the ammounts of potato starch may vary. Also, corn starch will work just as well.

Btw - I just want to mention that I have never made soap dough for _soap dough sake_. I actually didn`t even know soap dough was a real ‘thing’ until very recently. I have made things out of soft soap since I started. In the 90`s I used to make a lot of things out of a model clay that is called Fimo (I don`t know it is called that in English?)

I made key chains and figurines, heads of people with strange features, and things like that. So when I discovered soapmaking I found out that if the ends of the loaves were soft I could just cut them off and knead them the same way I did Fimo or marzipan, and make things out of them and let them air dry. And I have done it even since.

I just keep end pieces or scraps of the soap pliable and wrapped in plastic bag and keep them in a lunchbox with lid. 
_(well, if I can find one! Don`t get me started on missing lids.. I suspect they escape through some sort of wormhole and end up on a planet turned into a habitat of missing socks, plastic lids, safety pins and buttons.)_

Some end pieces I don`t do much to, I just squish them and press into a mooncake mold along with beveled scraps, and make small soaps for myself.

I have some ‘dough’ right now that are around 7 months old, and still pliable but tiny bit harder. I can just knead them and warm them up in my hands and they become soft again. It is made out of a no fuss recipe with 50% lard, 25% coconut, and rest is olive and rapeseed + 5% castor.

_If you are worried about spoilage because of the starch, I have some embeds that i made in 2017 and kept them because I wanted to see if anything happened because of the potato starch. They are solid, no dos, no spoilage, and they lather without issues. They don`t smell bad and look just fine, just a bit faded in color as they were already pastel. Some where greyish/black as I made a grey and black soap. I can dig them up from my stash and take a picture of them when I get some time, if someone is interested..._


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## Johnez (Sep 12, 2021)

Bubble Agent said:


> This may not be to any help regarding single fats soap dough experiments @Johnez !
> 
> But since you make shave soaps I just wanted to mention real quick that there is no problem making soap dough out of shaving soap, if you should wish to experiment with that. I know you have made some batches and wanted to venture in making them smaller so you don`t have a gazillion shaving soaps lying around during your testing. If you have some that is just sitting there, you can take them out and experiment with them as soapdough if you used dual lye and/or they are still soft`ish.
> 
> ...


 
Quite a post, and yes you've anticipated my main worry which I didn't mention as I honestly didn't want to load down my original post with too many questions lol! Using 100% KOH soap recipes currently yields a very pliable, but sticky soap, even without airtight sealing, so maybe this is way less involved and complicated than I thought. I'll have to give potato starch a try.


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## TashaBird (Sep 12, 2021)

Johnez said:


> Thanks Tasha, yes I have come across a looooot of that in YouTube. Basically the idea is to build a "collection" of single fat soap doughs to combine later in my mini crockpot to see how they perform. I'm noticing a most (all?) soap dough videos and articles focus on the artistic side. Maybe I've found my own little niche to experiment and make mistakes for others to learn from. It's way more boring than the creations you guys have come up with here so I'm not surprised heh.


I’ve had people ask me for shaving soap. So I’m excited to learn about using soap dough that way! Pleas


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## Bubble Agent (Sep 12, 2021)

Johnez said:


> Quite a post, and yes you've anticipated my main worry which I didn't mention as I honestly didn't want to load down my original post with too many questions lol! Using 100% KOH soap recipes currently yields a very pliable, but sticky soap, even without airtight sealing, so maybe this is way less involved and complicated than I thought. I'll have to give potato starch a try.



Sorry, I know it was a long read, lol, but I wanted to be thorough and not leave you hanging with a lot of unanswered questions in my reply

If you can`t get a hold of potato starch, as mentioned, corn starch will yield the same results. It is true starch in the end. It seems we use more potato starch than corn starch here in Norway, because we grow huge ammounts of potatoes like other countries grow corn. But our climate is to cold for corn.

Just don`t use real flour of any kind, it will turn things gummy. Btw, you can also use Arrow root starch.


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## Tara_H (Sep 12, 2021)

Johnez said:


> I want to make single fat soap dough to make small experimental batches of shave soap by combining individual doughs in combinations to compare.


Paging @ResolvableOwl ...


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## Johnez (Sep 12, 2021)

Bubble Agent said:


> Sorry, I know it was a long read, lol, but I wanted to be thorough and not leave you hanging with a lot of unanswered questions in my reply
> 
> If you can`t get a hold of potato starch, as mentioned, corn starch will yield the same results. It is true starch in the end. It seems we use more potato starch than corn starch here in Norway, because we grow huge ammounts of potatoes like other countries grow corn. But our climate is to cold for corn.
> 
> Just don`t use real flour of any kind, it will turn things gummy. Btw, you can also use Arrow root starch.



Oh don't be sorry, I'm very appreciative! There's only so many hours I have and things I can try on my own so every little bit helps.


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## ResolvableOwl (Sep 12, 2021)

Johnez said:


> I want to make single fat soap dough to make small experimental batches of shave soap by combining individual doughs in combinations to compare. Example: tallow/RBO/stearic acid vs. tallow/sunflower oil/stearic acid.


Appealing idea! I did something similar to liquid soap where blending is easy for obvious reasons, but the final results aren't that variable there (ETA: lol, I just noticed that I even referenced you over there!). Roughly related (but exchanging just a few late % of oils) was my soap dough sandbox.

I'm not clear if I understood you correctly. Would you make one single soap dough from tallow/RBO/stearic acid blend, and then one from tallow/sunflower oil/stearic acid? Or rather one tallow, one RBO, one stearic acid, one sunflower, and so on?
With that full reductionsim, I see some issues, though, that the vastly different properties of the oils would lead to soap doughs that won't “fit together” easily. Soft oils are no issue, coconut is probably marginal, but with hard oils, stearic acid in particular, I don't see how you could get a halfways decent soap dough out of it, even with mostly KOH. Alkali stearates in high concentration are just unbearably stubborn.
Maybe @Bubble Agent's sous-vide idea is of some use here (makes kneading the whole batch easier), but I have worked enough with soaps of high-stearic oils that I would avoid them in practical use if possible. (High water content might help out a bit, but then you're having a hard time comparing & combining the specific soaps)


@Tara_H Nerd sniping


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## Johnez (Sep 12, 2021)

ResolvableOwl said:


> Appealing idea! I did something similar to liquid soap where blending is easy for obvious reasons, but the final results aren't that variable there (ETA: lol, I just noticed that I even referenced you over there!). Roughly related (but exchanging just a few late % of oils) was my soap dough sandbox.
> 
> I'm not clear if I understood you correctly. Would you make one single soap dough from tallow/RBO/stearic acid blend, and then one from tallow/sunflower oil/stearic acid? Or rather one tallow, one RBO, one stearic acid, one sunflower, and so on?
> With that full reductionsim, I see some issues, though, that the vastly different properties of the oils would lead to soap doughs that won't “fit together” easily. Soft oils are no issue, coconut is probably marginal, but with hard oils, stearic acid in particular, I don't see how you could get a halfways decent soap dough out of it, even with mostly KOH. Alkali stearates in high concentration are just unbearably stubborn.
> ...


The bat signal (or should I say-"owl signal") has worked, thank you Tara_H!

I would be making soap doughs with single fats. An RBO soap dough, a tallow soap dough, and a SA soap dough to be combined later. I was thinking the addition of heat+water would make the process doable, as the shaving soaps themselves are really soft as well. SA is the sticky wicket of course. :-( I will try this first as I have no reason to even proceed if I can't get SA to behave. Sous vide has the extra benefit of being the neatest of the methods I can even think of, I hope it works for SA.


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## ResolvableOwl (Sep 12, 2021)

The one upside (if it really is) with stearic acid is that it's chemically not a fat, but a free fatty acid, so the reaction doesn't take an hour or a day, but mere seconds. It's the one you could in theory do in a pot on the stovetop.

ETA: which brings me to my next point: glycerol. A good part of the glycerol in the recipe is to offset the amount that is “missing” by using FFA instead of triglycerides. And soap + glycerol = M&P base, i. e. high glycerol concentrations are a true lifesaver when working with highly saturated soaps!

This also means that you 1. have to keep track of which batch has which amount of glycerol in it, and 2. (0.?) you have to think how to distribute the glycerol across your reductionist soaps.



Johnez said:


> The bat signal (or should I say-"owl signal") has worked, thank you Tara_H!


The well-deserved and overdue revenge for this comment.


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## earlene (Sep 12, 2021)

Johnez said:


> Thread is due for a bumparino.
> 
> I'm going to experiment with soap dough in a few weeks and have a few questions:
> 
> ...



*Johnez,* I seem to recall an experiment that Kevin Dunne ran some few years ago, wherein he and his students made soap with single oil layers - different oils in each layer, but each layer was a single oil.  They were bath or hand soaps, not shave soaps.  The idea was to see if the soap performed similarly or the same as soap that was made of all the same oils in the normal way or if it performed differently due to the layers being different single oils.  The result was that the users couldn't tell the difference in performance & feel of the control soaps (with all oils mixed together as is normally done with soap) versus the experimental soap.  The percentages per oil was uniform among the experimental soap and the control soaps.

I have no idea if this is in any way of interest to you, but your plan brought that experiment to mind.


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## Johnez (Sep 12, 2021)

ResolvableOwl said:


> The one upside (if it really is) with stearic acid is that it's chemically not a fat, but a free fatty acid, so the reaction doesn't take an hour or a day, but mere seconds. It's the one you could in theory do in a pot on the stovetop.
> 
> ETA: which brings me to my next point: glycerol. A good part of the glycerol in the recipe is to offset the amount that is “missing” by using FFA instead of triglycerides. And soap + glycerol = M&P base, i. e. high glycerol concentrations are a true lifesaver when working with highly saturated soaps!
> 
> ...



Currently at the pot right now with the SA, I just can't wait. First batch I'll do with 15% glycerine (as weight of fat(ty acid) to try to make this workable. Not super concerned about cure rate right now tho that'll probably be a concern later. I just want it to be workable and not turn into a rock on me lol.

I'll do SA today, RBO, sweet almond, sunflower, avacado, tallow, and anything else that sounds interesting in the following days so that a week after my last batch I can be ready to experiment. I'll probably make a separate thread on this just so I can have a space to expand without taking over other threads lol. Thanks ever so much for your contributions, as you were the main driver behind this whole idea.


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## Johnez (Sep 12, 2021)

earlene said:


> *Johnez,* I seem to recall an experiment that Kevin Dunne ran some few years ago, wherein he and his students made soap with single oil layers - different oils in each layer, but each layer was a single oil.  They were bath or hand soaps, not shave soaps.  The idea was to see if the soap performed similarly or the same as soap that was made of all the same oils in the normal way or if it performed differently due to the layers being different single oils.  The result was that the users couldn't tell the difference in performance & feel of the control soaps (with all oils mixed together as is normally done with soap) versus the experimental soap.  The percentages per oil was uniform among the experimental soap and the control soaps.
> 
> I have no idea if this is in any way of interest to you, but your plan brought that experiment to mind.



This is very interesting and relevant! I'm curious and will search this out to see the results. Did they happen to physically layer the different soaps or melt them together? I'm not surprised about the results to be honest being that I'm pretty sure this manufacturers have gone this route being the ingredients list often times list things like "Sodium Tallowate" as opposed to "tallow, sodium hydroxide," however that might be label trickery to avoid listing scary chemical names.


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## earlene (Sep 13, 2021)

Johnez said:


> This is very interesting and relevant! I'm curious and will search this out to see the results. Did they happen to physically layer the different soaps or melt them together? I'm not surprised about the results to be honest being that I'm pretty sure this manufacturers have gone this route being the ingredients list often times list things like "Sodium Tallowate" as opposed to "tallow, sodium hydroxide," however that might be label trickery to avoid listing scary chemical names.


He passed around the soaps at a conference I was at a few years back as well showing slides.  The layers weren't like smooth flat layers one makes with colors and all that.  The batters were mixed separately then poured into the mold a bit haphazardly by the look of it, but with a clear intent to NOT allow them to mix.  No, they did not 'melt them together', which I assume to mean make single oil soaps separately and then put them together after they were solid.  The raw soap (fluid batter) was poured into the mold and then allowed to finish setting up and cure.

As to the labeling, no it's not trickery, it's the way labeling is mandated to be done (via regulations).  In the US, we have two ways we are allowed by federal regulations to list the ingredients in soap.  In the US we can list it as what comes out of the pot or as what goes into the pot (soapmaking pot or mixing bowl or whatever vessel is used).  If what goes into the pot is tallow, water and sodium hydroxide, what comes out is sodium tallowate, glycerin and water (although some water evaporates off, there is really no way of knowing for sure if & when all the water is ever gone).  Also some unsaponified bits of oils, but no one seems to list those, and without analysis, we don't know what all of those are and the percentage is so small they don't have to be listed anyway. (Some folks may know at least in part, but most soapmakers wouldn't.)

Reference on labeling in the US:  Ingredient Labels for Soap - Marie Gale
and this list of pertinent regulatory agencies in the US:  Federal Agencies, Regs & Laws - Marie Gale
and the basic label requirements per the FTC (in the US) for consumer products: Fair Packaging and Labeling Act: Regulations Under Section 4 of the Fair Packaging and Labeling Act


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