# Help getting a scent to stick in CP soap



## KarenDK (Sep 21, 2019)

I have a hard time finding scents i really like, and have finally found a scent, that give me that nice uhhhhm feeling, when i smell it. Now the problem is, getting it to stay in soap.
The scent is made as an equal mixture og bergamot EO and rosewood EO. Both should be able to stay, but the scent almost disappears before the soap is cured. I add the mixture at 3% of oil weight to the soap.
Any advice is welcome: additives, examples of good top and bottom notes I could add to the mix, soapforms, that holds scents better (salt soap? whipped soap?). 
I really hope you can help me get my uhhhhm-feeling into a soap. I do not really use scented leave on products, so adding it to something else is not a good option.


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## shunt2011 (Sep 21, 2019)

Most EO’s don’t stick well in CP long term from my experience.  Some claim clays help but I’ve not found that to be true.  I started out using EO but didn’t have much luck with the exception of a few so switched over to FO primarily.  

The only EO I found to stick are Patchouli, Lemongrass, Eucalyptus, Peppermint, Lavender  and Tea Tree. When I use Orange I use 10 fold anchored with  Litsea Cubea.  There are quite a few posts on this topic on the form.


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## lsg (Sep 21, 2019)

You might try HP soap with the above combination.  Your soap will still need to cure, but will have gone through most of the saponification process.  You might try using vetiver as a base note with the rosewood/bergamot.


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## KarenDK (Sep 22, 2019)

Thank you so much for your help. 
I will try HP, and to anchor the scent with vertiver.


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## Chris Wright (Sep 22, 2019)

Tapioca Starch is good for holding fragrance try a tbsp per lb, it worked for me


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## soapmaker (Sep 22, 2019)

Chris Wright said:


> Tapioca Starch is good for holding fragrance try a tbsp per lb, it worked for me



Does it make a noticeable difference in the feel/lather of the soap?


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## KarenDK (Sep 23, 2019)

Chris Wright said:


> Tapioca Starch is good for holding fragrance try a tbsp per lb, it worked for me


I will try that, when I find Tapioca starch here in Denmark. 
Can anyone tell me, what the main difference between tapioca starch and other starches, such as potato and corn is?


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## Chris Wright (Sep 23, 2019)

I think it makes a silkier feel to the suds, certainly doesn't lose any suds.


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## KiwiMoose (Sep 23, 2019)

KarenDK said:


> I will try that, when I find Tapioca starch here in Denmark.
> Can anyone tell me, what the main difference between tapioca starch and other starches, such as potato and corn is?


See if you can get rice flour?  I've heard that does the same thing.


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## penelopejane (Sep 23, 2019)

Sorry Kiwimoose I seem to be following you around the forum.

I haven't used rice flour in soap but I have used it in cooking. If you are going to use rice flour in soap make sure you don't buy "ground rice". It is much courser than rice flour. I learnt this the hard way.


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## KiwiMoose (Sep 23, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> Sorry Kiwimoose I seem to be following you around the forum.
> 
> I haven't used rice flour in soap but I have used it in cooking. If you are going to use rice flour in soap make sure you don't buy "ground rice". It is much courser than rice flour.


It's coz us Kiwis and Aussies are the only ones awake PJ!
I have used it in soap, but did not have a 'control' soap to test whether it made any difference to scent retention.  It was a rose scent and it was certainly still there right up til when i used the last bar only a month ago ( it was only 8 months old though)


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## penelopejane (Sep 23, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> It's coz us Kiwis and Aussies are the only ones awake PJ!
> I have used it in soap, but did not have a 'control' soap to test whether it made any difference to scent retention.  It was a rose scent and it was certainly still there right up til when i used the last bar only a month ago ( it was only 8 months old though)


  How much did you use?  I might try it and see what I think.  I know clay changes the feel of a soap dramatically.  My sons don't like it at all.


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## soapmaker (Sep 23, 2019)

You must be able to feel rice flour in soap. I used to bake with it for my son and it is gritty. It was not ground rice, it was called rice flour.


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## DeeAnna (Sep 23, 2019)

There are brands of rice flour that are finely ground and not gritty -- I remember there was a discussion about that in the long-running thread here on making magnesium hydroxide deodorant. 

I don't have the info at my fingertips about the specific brand that's really finely ground, but I do remember that Bob's Red Mill rice flour didn't make the grade -- look instead at the rice flour sold by Asian groceries.


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## KiwiMoose (Sep 23, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> How much did you use?  I might try it and see what I think.  I know clay changes the feel of a soap dramatically.  My sons don't like it at all.


I used 1tsp PPO ( or as we say here down under, P500)


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## Argie (Sep 24, 2019)

I tried tapioca flour. Won't know for sure if it worked well because the soap is still curing, but that is what was recommended to me.


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## KarenDK (Sep 25, 2019)

Argie said:


> I tried tapioca flour. Won't know for sure if it worked well because the soap is still curing, but that is what was recommended to me.



Thanks for participating with your expirience. Won't you give us an update, when the curing time is over. I would both like to know, if the scent sticks better, and if the flour affected the feel of the soap.


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## Argie (Sep 25, 2019)

Will let you know in a week or two. I did two batches, one using the tapioca flour and the other without, so might be able to tell if it makes a difference.


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## Argie (Oct 8, 2019)

Both soaps were cut about a week ago. Both have a pleasant smell, not strong, and I can't tell any difference between them. I would not say the tapioca flour made any difference as far as the smell. One bar of the tapioca batch has flaked on one side. I molded that batch in two parts, one part in a wooden mold lined with freezer paper and the other in a silicone mold that I put into a cardboard box to help it hold its shape. The one that flaked is from the wooden mold, which is what I have always used and never had that happen before. I don't know if the tapioca flour had anything to do with it.


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## Zany_in_CO (Oct 13, 2019)

http://www.pallasathenesoap.com/articles/EssenOil.pdf

QUOTE:
TIPS TO GIVE YOUR EOs MORE STAYING POWER 

Cure cold process soap 4 weeks.
Fleeting scent falls to half-strength after about 24 weeks.
Don’t make soap until it is needed.
Once made and cured, SELL it or USE it as soon as possible.
Add EOs as the last step before pouring the formula into molds.

“MELT-AND-POUR” (M & P) process is the kindest to EOs. 
Use15 drops of EOs per 1 pound of melted soap. 
Add immediately before pouring into molds.

COLD PROCESS (CP) 
Use 1.5 teaspoons of EOs per 1 pound of soap.
If a blend does not hold up well, use more.
Store each scent in a different cardboard box, to reinforce the aroma. 
Cotton balls soaked in the scent helps to perpetuate the fragrance.

COMBINE THE EOS WITH A FIXATIVE
Bentonite clay, castor oil, glycerin, oat flour, pumice, olive oil 
Unsaponifiables (or slow to saponify) are the most effective fixative.
Mix EOs with the fixative and store in an airtight container.
Add as the last step before pouring the CP soap into the mold.
Cover batch with plastic saran wrap to impede dissipation. 

BLEND TWO OR MORE EOS TO IMPROVE THE DURATION OF SCENT.
EOs’ scents may generally be categorized as top (high), middle, or base (low) notes. Top notes (such as citrus) generally tend to be more fleeting than middle or base notes. Base notes tend to have more staying power. A blend of top, middle, and base notes has the most staying potential. 

Anchor citrus EOs with litsea cubeba.
Anchor other blends with balsam, benzoin, patchouli and anise.

10% benzoin or patchouli
20% other base notes
30% middle notes
40% top notes.
END QUOTE

In additiion to the above, I've found that lard soap retains scent well.
10% Oakmoss Absolute diluted in 90% jojoba oil is a good anchor that works well with most scents.
Rather than bentonite clay that adds color, I prefer white Kaolin clay to help retain scent and also lay a foundation for colorants and whitens white soap - Use Rate: 1 tsp - 1 Tbls PPO.
My favorite starch for retaining scent is Bob's Red Mill Potato Starch. Oat Flour is another dry ingredient that is also soothing to parched skin.
Lately, I feel the best way to add more staying power is to combine the EO or blend with a compatible FO.

HTH


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## Vgurer (Feb 4, 2020)

Zany_in_CO said:


> http://www.pallasathenesoap.com/articles/EssenOil.pdf
> 
> QUOTE:
> TIPS TO GIVE YOUR EOs MORE STAYING POWER
> ...


Thank you for those advices, I was wondering to learn the possibility to use kieselsol (slicon dioxide) instead of bentonite? especially in CP.


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## geniash (Feb 4, 2020)

Silicon dioxide is sand. It won't be the same as betonite clay in CP.


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## shunt2011 (Feb 4, 2020)

I did a google of silicon dioxide it is a constituent of sand but not directly.  Silicon dioxide is a *natural chemical mix of silicon and oxygen that has uses in many food products as an anticaking agent*.

However, to be honest, I've never found anything to make fragrance stick except using CP stable FO's or stronger EO's and having a blend of something to anchor the fragrance.


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