# Etsy Shop Critiques?



## SplendorSoaps

I finally bit the bullet and opened my Etsy shop.  I just announced it my friends/family, and just had my first sale yesterday!  

Since the people on this forum are the experts, I was wondering if you'd take a look and offer some constructive criticism?  Don't worry - I can take it!  LOL

One thing I wanted to note... My shop banner has my shop name, and then under it says "Soaps Made By Hand."  I realize that's redundant, but couldn't think of another tagline.  I'm good at making soap and marketing, but not so much with graphic design.  My husband recommended something like, "Someone is finally cleaning up this town" for some humor.  Thoughts?

Thanks so much in advance.  Everyone on this forum is always so helpful!

www.etsy.com/shop/emilyshandmadesoaps


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## seven

congrats on your etsy shop!

i quite like the banner. products are also described with ingredients listed. i would try to improve more on the photography of the products. your current pics are clear, so that's good, but a few things can be improved to make them more eye catching. perhaps do them in the same background, so it looks more uniform and professional. 

here is an interesting article about setting up a cheap light box for taking product photos: http://www.handmadeology.com/studio-quality-product-photography-with-a-12-set-up/


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

The light box is a good idea.  As would be having the focus not on the very front soap with so many behind it - the eye can naturally drift through the image, down the line of products, which then makes it seem out of focus.

I would also watch your descriptions - you are selling cosmetics at the moment and so should adhere to the FDA regulations for doing so.  The reason why you're selling cosmetics and not soaps is because you are saying that they moisturise and so on.  Your soaps can only clean, nothing else at all.  Check out the FDA website for more info


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## SplendorSoaps

seven said:


> congrats on your etsy shop!
> 
> i quite like the banner. products are also described with ingredients listed. i would try to improve more on the photography of the products. your current pics are clear, so that's good, but a few things can be improved to make them more eye catching. perhaps do them in the same background, so it looks more uniform and professional.
> 
> here is an interesting article about setting up a cheap light box for taking product photos: http://www.handmadeology.com/studio-quality-product-photography-with-a-12-set-up/



Thanks, Seven! Photos have been a point of difficulty for me. I'll definitely check out the light box idea!



The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> The light box is a good idea. As would be having the focus not on the very front soap with so many behind it - the eye can naturally drift through the image, down the line of products, which then makes it seem out of focus.
> 
> I would also watch your descriptions - you are selling cosmetics at the moment and so should adhere to the FDA regulations for doing so. The reason why you're selling cosmetics and not soaps is because you are saying that they moisturise and so on. Your soaps can only clean, nothing else at all. Check out the FDA website for more info



Thanks for pointing that out, Craig! I'd been trying to follow the CPSC guidelines for soap, not even thinking about the cosmetic aspects of the descriptions. See, this is why I need to check in with you experts on this! Heading to the FDA site now.


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## shunt2011

I like your Etsy shop.  One thing on your labels caught my eye, you need to list the weight on the front of the label.   Photos are a huge issue for me as well.  With a little work you'll nail it.  Congratulations.


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## SplendorSoaps

shunt2011 said:


> I like your Etsy shop.  One thing on your labels caught my eye, you need to list the weight on the front of the label.   Photos are a huge issue for me as well.  With a little work you'll nail it.  Congratulations.



Thanks, Shari!  I'm updating my labels now to include the weight (it's slow going - I'm not very good with graphic design LOL).  Thanks for checking it out!


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## FGOriold

I think you have a great start - best to list a few products and get feedback before filling your whole shop.  I agree about being careful with your labels and descriptions. If you want some great info on labeling laws check out this website:

http://mariegale.com/soap-and-cosmetic-labeling/labeling-faq.html

and make sure you know what you are selling. As soon as you say your soap does anything but clean (moisturize, exfoliate, etc.) either via labeling, description or implied, you then fall into the area of selling cosmetics.  If you make any mention of medical claims/conditions again either via labeling, description or even implied (this includes implying or stating an ingredient is used to treat, cure, heal, etc.) then you are selling a drug.  It is really, really important to have a handle on this so that you can confidently follow all the labeling laws.

Good luck to you.


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## goji_fries

Looking good. Much success to you.


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## SplendorSoaps

FGOriold said:


> I think you have a great start - best to list a few products and get feedback before filling your whole shop.  I agree about being careful with your labels and descriptions. If you want some great info on labeling laws check out this website:
> 
> http://mariegale.com/soap-and-cosmetic-labeling/labeling-faq.html
> 
> and make sure you know what you are selling. As soon as you say your soap does anything but clean (moisturize, exfoliate, etc.) either via labeling, description or implied, you then fall into the area of selling cosmetics.  If you make any mention of medical claims/conditions again either via labeling, description or even implied (this includes implying or stating an ingredient is used to treat, cure, heal, etc.) then you are selling a drug.  It is really, really important to have a handle on this so that you can confidently follow all the labeling laws.
> 
> Good luck to you.



Thanks for the link, Faith!  I've been wading through the FDA site today, but this is much for user-friendly.


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## snappyllama

Congratulations!  Your shop looks like it's off to a great start. 

As a consumer, I only have a couple of minor quibbles:

I like the product to take front stage.  Your pink soap is beautiful, but it's hard to see the swirls behind the label on the front page.  I also prefer a neutral background (white, gray or black) that is the same for all pictures so that product really stands out. 

I might hesitate to buy something that is "approximately" a certain weight.  I'd feel better buying "at least X ounces".


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## SplendorSoaps

snappyllama said:


> Congratulations!  Your shop looks like it's off to a great start.
> 
> As a consumer, I only have a couple of minor quibbles:
> 
> I like the product to take front stage.  Your pink soap is beautiful, but it's hard to see the swirls behind the label on the front page.  I also prefer a neutral background (white, gray or black) that is the same for all pictures so that product really stands out.
> 
> I might hesitate to buy something that is "approximately" a certain weight.  I'd feel better buying "at least X ounces".



Thank you!  I know I definitely need to do some work on the pics (I promise I'm way better at making soap than taking pictures!  LOL).  

I really like your idea about how to list the weight.  I think the "at least" weight will make for a far more positive customer experience.  Thanks again for the tips!


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## Aline

Agree with other comments. I like to see really clear and accurate descriptions. Is the colorant used in the cranberry fig really natural? It's very bright  Also, I am put off by 'ingredients include...." That sounds like you are hiding something....

Having said that, your soaps look lovely and I'm sure you are going to do great


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## cmzaha

If you are going to label your soaps with the ingredients you need to have them in descending order. FDA does not recognize the term saponified oils. You either have to list what goes into the soap bucket or what comes out of the mold. Saponified coconut oil would be named sodium coconate, tallow sodium tallowate etc. I prefer to label what goes in my soap bucket including the inci terminology. Technically soap does not need to be labeled with ingredients, but customers very much prefer it. I label my weight as minimum weight then I list the weight of the smallest bar in the batch. Sometimes the ends of my molds will produce a lower weight bar. I have actually had customers mention that their soap weight several ounces more than the label stated. In Publisher I cannot change the information on just 1 label


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## girlishcharm2004

cmzaha said:


> Technically soap does not need to be labeled with ingredients, but customers very much prefer it.



I have always wondered if soap does not require labeling, then why does labeling need to adhere to rules that don't actually apply?

Soapcalc will give you INCI names for everything but the additives, if that helps you out at all.

Also, technically, in order to label something by "what comes out of the pot", you will need to have your soap lab tested to determine the actual amounts that were produced -- e.g. sodium cocoate, glycerin, etc. You can't just guess.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

girlishcharm2004 said:


> I have always wondered if soap does not require labeling, then why does labeling need to adhere to rules that don't actually apply?
> 
> Soapcalc will give you INCI names for everything but the additives, if that helps you out at all.
> 
> Also, technically, in order to label something by "what comes out of the pot", you will need to have your soap lab tested to determine the actual amounts that were produced -- e.g. sodium cocoate, glycerin, etc. You can't just guess.


 
I think that is it literally that - you don't have to do it, but then if you are putting ingredients on there it has to be understandable, or at least confirm to the standards set out.  

Good tip on the Soapcalc and INCI names, thanks for that.

In many ways, you CAN say what is in the mould.  You know that if you use NaOH you will just have "sodium whatevers" and if you use more 10% more lard than CO, you know you will have more sodium lardate than sodium cocoate.  You can also work out how much glcerine will be produced (http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=47524) and see where it would come in the list.


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## DeeAnna

"...if soap does not require labeling, then why does labeling need to adhere to rules that don't actually apply?..."

For consistency with other similar consumer products. FDA cosmetic guidelines create a type of ingredient list that consumers, including myself, have been educated to expect and trust. I want to see ALL of the ingredients in descending order of weight.

If one is not going to create an ingredients list using FDA cosmetic labeling guidelines -- up to and including selectively leaving out ingredients (sodium hydroxide and lard come to mind) -- then I suggest the label not list any ingredients at all. Don't mislead people.

"...you will need to have your soap lab tested..."

The Gent is correct -- you can calculate the ingredients if the "out of the pot" method is your choice.


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## SplendorSoaps

Aline said:


> Agree with other comments. I like to see really clear and accurate descriptions. Is the colorant used in the cranberry fig really natural? It's very bright  Also, I am put off by 'ingredients include...." That sounds like you are hiding something....
> 
> Having said that, your soaps look lovely and I'm sure you are going to do great



That's a good point on the "ingredients include" part.  It does sound a little shady now that I'm looking at it like that.  I have a sticker on each soap that lists the ingredients in the correct order (the ingredients I put in, not the "end product" ingredients), but that should really be mirrored in the item description for consistency.  Great catch!  

I'll fix the line about the Cranberry Fig colorant.  I didn't think about it at the time, but I don't remember which brand I used on that one (it was a liquid colorant, not one of the pigment powders and micas that I usually use.  Yikes!).  Thanks for catching that!!  That's one of the few times I used anything other than pigments and micas!


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## SplendorSoaps

cmzaha said:


> If you are going to label your soaps with the ingredients you need to have them in descending order. FDA does not recognize the term saponified oils. You either have to list what goes into the soap bucket or what comes out of the mold. Saponified coconut oil would be named sodium coconate, tallow sodium tallowate etc. I prefer to label what goes in my soap bucket including the inci terminology. Technically soap does not need to be labeled with ingredients, but customers very much prefer it. I label my weight as minimum weight then I list the weight of the smallest bar in the batch. Sometimes the ends of my molds will produce a lower weight bar. I have actually had customers mention that their soap weight several ounces more than the label stated. In Publisher I cannot change the information on just 1 label



Thanks, Carolyn!  I have all of the ingredients listed on the labels on the _back_ of the soaps (you know, where you can't see them on my site!  LOL), but I really need to have it listed like that on the item descriptions for consistency.  This is exactly why I needed the critiques - to catch all of that stuff that I'm just "too close to see."  Thanks again!


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## SplendorSoaps

girlishcharm2004 said:


> I have always wondered if soap does not require labeling, then why does labeling need to adhere to rules that don't actually apply?
> 
> Soapcalc will give you INCI names for everything but the additives, if that helps you out at all.
> 
> Also, technically, in order to label something by "what comes out of the pot", you will need to have your soap lab tested to determine the actual amounts that were produced -- e.g. sodium cocoate, glycerin, etc. You can't just guess.



Thanks for the tip on the SoapCalc!  I think I'll stick to listing out the ingredients with the "into the pot" method for now.


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## cmzaha

Good luck with your new store:smile:


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## SplendorSoaps

seven said:


> congrats on your etsy shop!
> 
> i quite like the banner. products are also described with ingredients listed. i would try to improve more on the photography of the products. your current pics are clear, so that's good, but a few things can be improved to make them more eye catching. perhaps do them in the same background, so it looks more uniform and professional.
> 
> here is an interesting article about setting up a cheap light box for taking product photos: http://www.handmadeology.com/studio-quality-product-photography-with-a-12-set-up/



Seven, the light box worked like a charm!!  My pics are a far cry from professional, but they're WAY better than they were before.  Here's an "after" photo with the light box of my Oatmeal Honey soap.  Such an improvement (and it didn't cost me a dime - I had all the stuff at home to make the light box!).


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## snappyllama

Oh, that does look nice!


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## FGOriold

"Soap" does not fall under the FDA cosmetic regulations (as long as it is true soap and you call it nothing other than soap and say only that it cleans - anything more than it falls under FDA rules for cosmetics or drugs) BUT falls under the consumer product safety commission (CPSC) and must still adhere the their labeling requirements (ingredient list is not required) for the front and back panels.  Should you choose to include an ingredient list, then it must conform the rules for listing ingredients.

Some really good links:

http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/GuidanceRegulation/LawsRegulations/ucm074201.htm
http://mariegale.com/soap-and-cosmetic-labeling/labeling-faq.html


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## girlishcharm2004

FGOriold said:


> "Soap" does not fall under the FDA cosmetic regulations (as long as it is true soap and you call it nothing other than soap and say only that it cleans - anything more than it falls under FDA rules for cosmetics or drugs) BUT falls under the consumer product safety commission (CPSC) and must still adhere the their labeling requirements (ingredient list is not required) for the front and back panels.  Should you choose to include an ingredient list, then it must conform the rules for listing ingredients.
> 
> Some really good links:
> 
> http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/GuidanceRegulation/LawsRegulations/ucm074201.htm
> http://mariegale.com/soap-and-cosmetic-labeling/labeling-faq.html



EXACTLY my point!

"Sometimes (often, actually) a soapmaker has a true soap for which no  cosmetic claims have been made, but still wants to tell their customers  what is in the soap.  Since it’s not a cosmetic, the FDA regulations  don’t apply, so there is considerably more freedom in what you say.  In this case, you could use “saponified oils of ___”.  The ingredients  don’t necessarily have to be in descending order of predominance – they  don’t even have to all be included." (Source: http://blog.mariegale.com/ingredient-labels-soap/)

Thanks, FGOriold!


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## lisamaliga

Emily,
Your shop looks nice & is easy to navigate. Also, that Oatmeal Honey Soap photo is very inviting. Great job in taking that photo.


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## Luckyone80

Only my personal opinions and it may not matter to others so take with a grain of salt. I would try taking your pictures either outside in the lightbox or use a bright "white" light for the box inside. Your pictures are nice but have a "yellow" hue to them. You might be able to fix that in a photo editor program too.

Another thing from a consumer standpoint, all your soaps are priced the same no matter how many ounces each kind is. I personally wouldn't pay $6 for a 2.3 oz bar when I could get a 3.3 oz bar for the same price. Now I don't know if in the 2.3 oz bars you used a higher dollar oil/butter/EO, etc, maybe that would make up the difference in price but to a person that has never made soap before, this could be a concern and deter them from buying maybe. JMO!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Luckyone80 said:


> .....Another thing from a consumer standpoint, all your soaps are priced the same no matter how many ounces each kind is. I personally wouldn't pay $6 for a 2.3 oz bar when I could get a 3.3 oz bar for the same price. Now I don't know if in the 2.3 oz bars you used a higher dollar oil/butter/EO, etc, maybe that would make up the difference in price but to a person that has never made soap before, this could be a concern and deter them from buying maybe. JMO!



A very good point.  There would have to be something to make it stand out that the recipe is different or some such.


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## Luckyone80

Another thing you might add in your descriptions is how your soap will be packaged especially since your pictures don't show labels or anything. Some people are all about the packaging, some could care less but I would want to disclose how the soap will be packaged. 

Examples: 
Each bar will be individually packed in a glassine bag with a raffia ribbon as an accent; ready to be given as gift. I also wrap each bar in kraft paper to protect it on its way.

All bars come simply packaged in a biodegradable bag.

 Professionally packaged in cello & labeled.


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## shunt2011

Luckyone80 said:


> Only my personal opinions and it may not matter to others so take with a grain of salt. I would try taking your pictures either outside in the lightbox or use a bright "white" light for the box inside. Your pictures are nice but have a "yellow" hue to them. You might be able to fix that in a photo editor program too.
> 
> Another thing from a consumer standpoint, all your soaps are priced the same no matter how many ounces each kind is. I personally wouldn't pay $6 for a 2.3 oz bar when I could get a 3.3 oz bar for the same price. Now I don't know if in the 2.3 oz bars you used a higher dollar oil/butter/EO, etc, maybe that would make up the difference in price but to a person that has never made soap before, this could be a concern and deter them from buying maybe. JMO!


 
I too agree with this.  When you have that great of a difference in the size bar your price should reflect that as well.   I don't think I'd pay 6.00 for a 2.3 oz bar of soap unless it had something really good going on.  But that's just my thought.


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## Luckyone80

I notice that a lot of sellers (NOT all) price their soaps per ounce. 
Again, this is subject to change based on the oils/butters/EO/Additives, Embeds, etc that you use. 
If I were to sell my soaps, I would use the $1 per ounce as a reference then factor in all the other stuff including the amount of difficulty and my time spent.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Luckyone80 said:


> I notice that a lot of sellers (NOT all) price their soaps per ounce.
> Again, this is subject to change based on the oils/butters/EO/Additives, Embeds, etc that you use.
> If I were to sell my soaps, I would use the $1 per ounce as a reference then factor in all the other stuff including the amount of difficulty and my time spent.



Sorry, but that is plain wrong.  Take your costs, all of your costs, for the batch and then divide that up by the number of bars.  Multiply that by 4 and you have your retail price.

Anything else and you are doing the market, not only yourself, a big disservice.


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## Luckyone80

I did say "not all" sellers. It is what it seems like from what I've seen at my local craft fairs and I did say to factor in your time. Also I don't sell and probably never will so of course this is just my opinion and it may not be right.


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## Luckyone80

I actually did figure my cost once on the 3rd batch of soap I made (Castile) and I think I figured it up just by product used that it cost $1.35 per bar but it was just olive oil soap with fragrance. 
Figuring your costs this way does make more sense come to think of it.


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## SplendorSoaps

Luckyone80 said:


> Only my personal opinions and it may not matter to others so take with a grain of salt. I would try taking your pictures either outside in the lightbox or use a bright "white" light for the box inside. Your pictures are nice but have a "yellow" hue to them. You might be able to fix that in a photo editor program too.
> 
> Another thing from a consumer standpoint, all your soaps are priced the same no matter how many ounces each kind is. I personally wouldn't pay $6 for a 2.3 oz bar when I could get a 3.3 oz bar for the same price. Now I don't know if in the 2.3 oz bars you used a higher dollar oil/butter/EO, etc, maybe that would make up the difference in price but to a person that has never made soap before, this could be a concern and deter them from buying maybe. JMO!



Great points, Luckyone80!  I'm still working on the photos.  I'm great at making soap and marketing, but not so great on the graphic design/photography aspect of it.  It's definitely a work in progress on that front!

As far as the bar sizes go, I list the weights as being "at least" a certain size (another awesome tip I got from a poster on this forum!), so the weight I'm listing online kind of represents the weight of the "runt of the litter" in each batch.  I'm still cutting by hand, and as hard as a I try, there's still quite a difference in bar sizes.  I need to get one of those Bud Haffner cutters that everyone speaks so highly of!  I did price the holiday-themed soaps at my "usual" price even though they're a little bit smaller.  My thought process was that they're a "limited edition" scent, and my assumption (maybe I'm wrong here) is that most people would be okay with a smaller size on these, since you probably don't want to be still using pumpkin spice soap (or some other holiday fragrance) next February or March.  At least I wouldn't - I'd want to be on to the next holiday!  LOL

My last several batches are weighing much closer to about 4 oz. each, and I've been able to keep my costs steady by buying some items in bulk.  

Thanks for your honest feedback.  This is really, REALLY helpful to me as I start out, make mistakes, and fix them.


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## SplendorSoaps

Luckyone80 said:


> Another thing you might add in your descriptions is how your soap will be packaged especially since your pictures don't show labels or anything. Some people are all about the packaging, some could care less but I would want to disclose how the soap will be packaged.
> 
> Examples:
> Each bar will be individually packed in a glassine bag with a raffia ribbon as an accent; ready to be given as gift. I also wrap each bar in kraft paper to protect it on its way.
> 
> All bars come simply packaged in a biodegradable bag.
> 
> Professionally packaged in cello & labeled.



Another great suggestion!  I use recyclable, kraft colored soap boxes that I think are pretty complimentary to my evolving brand, and would be easy for a customer to "re-gift."  Now if I could just channel my inner photographer...


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## SplendorSoaps

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Sorry, but that is plain wrong.  Take your costs, all of your costs, for the batch and then divide that up by the number of bars.  Multiply that by 4 and you have your retail price.
> 
> Anything else and you are doing the market, not only yourself, a big disservice.



That's the principle I've been using as a guideline (I also include my time in the "cost of goods" formula - the first time I've worked for minimum wage since I was 16! LOL).  Now that I'm buying supplies in bulk and am fairly streamlined, I think I'm pretty close to that.


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## SplendorSoaps

I just wanted to thank everyone for all of the helpful suggestions.  I can't tell you how much I appreciate you all checking out my shop and items, and giving notes.  I regard the people I've encountered on this site very highly, and getting notes from you all is really helping me along in this endeavor.  I just had my third sale yesterday, from a repeat customer!


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## girlishcharm2004

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Sorry, but that is plain wrong.  Take your costs, all of your costs, for the batch and then divide that up by the number of bars.  Multiply that by 4 and you have your retail price.
> 
> Anything else and you are doing the market, not only yourself, a big disservice.



Sorry, but I think that when people take the cost of ingredients and multiply it by 4, then you are doing the market, not only yourself, a big disservice.  Why should buying in bulk make your labor not as worthwhile?  

I know the cost of ingredients per bar.  I know my monthly expenses.  I also know how much I want to be paid per hour and how many hours goes into making and wrapping soap.  Plus, I need 10% so that I can be profitable.  Then I multiply that by 2 for retail price.  With this equation, I know that I need to make x amount of bars per batch, and I need to sell x amount of bars per month to make ends meet.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

girlishcharm2004 said:


> Sorry, but I think that when people take the cost of ingredients and multiply it by 4, then you are doing the market, not only yourself, a big disservice.  Why should buying in bulk make your labor not as worthwhile?
> 
> I know the cost of ingredients per bar.  I know my monthly expenses.  I also know how much I want to be paid per hour and how many hours goes into making and wrapping soap.  Plus, I need 10% so that I can be profitable.  Then I multiply that by 2 for retail price.  With this equation, I know that I need to make x amount of bars per batch, and I need to sell x amount of bars per month to make ends meet.



Eta- by costs, I mean the whole costs! I always mean whole costs. Ingredients and time taken, including clean up.

That is the standard practice for manufacturing to retail. It takes in to account eventualities that may not have been planned for to ensure robust business. It is aimed at a business, not someone doing it as a side line where 3 months of no sales is disappointing but doesn't result in closing down. 

People who make their living from selling need to use this formula. Their business advisors would be horrified if they didn't. So if you come along a sell at a 10% profit because that is all you need, you bugger up the market for everyone, simply because you don't need to have a stable business and so charge what you think is a fairer price. 

Then you make it big and you get an advisor, maybe from the bank or the tax office or a freelancer. They will tell you the very same thing. So you have to change your prices - but what has changed in the soap? Nothing. Except now you're charging the market rates which is not going to go over well with your customers who are used to paying lower prices for your products. 

If using this formula makes you much more expensive than other people selling soap as a business, then your costs are simply too high. You need to reduce them. 

But in any form, undercutting the market unfairly is a terrible thing to do. If using the formula makes you cheaper than the going rate - perfect! You have a very good edge. But it is also worth looking in to why they are more expensive - is there something you have over looked?

I do not care at all if this and previous posts on the subject come over as harsh because this is not something to be played with. This is business, not a hobby. When you sell, it stops being a hobby. 

You might think differently, but when people would be losing their livelihoods because of your practices I think my response is proportional.


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## cmzaha

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Eta- by costs, I mean the whole costs! I always mean whole costs. Ingredients and time taken, including clean up.
> 
> That is the standard practice for manufacturing to retail. It takes in to account eventualities that may not have been planned for to ensure robust business. It is aimed at a business, not someone doing it as a side line where 3 months of no sales is disappointing but doesn't result in closing down.
> 
> People who make their living from selling need to use this formula. Their business advisors would be horrified if they didn't. So if you come along a sell at a 10% profit because that is all you need, you bugger up the market for everyone, simply because you don't need to have a stable business and so charge what you think is a fairer price.
> 
> Then you make it big and you get an advisor, maybe from the bank or the tax office or a freelancer. They will tell you the very same thing. So you have to change your prices - but what has changed in the soap? Nothing. Except now you're charging the market rates which is not going to go over well with your customers who are used to paying lower prices for your products.
> 
> If using this formula makes you much more expensive than other people selling soap as a business, then your costs are simply too high. You need to reduce them.
> 
> But in any form, undercutting the market unfairly is a terrible thing to do. If using the formula makes you cheaper than the going rate - perfect! You have a very good edge. But it is also worth looking in to why they are more expensive - is there something you have over looked?
> 
> I do not care at all if this and previous posts on the subject come over as harsh because this is not something to be played with. This is business, not a hobby. When you sell, it stops being a hobby.
> 
> You might think differently, but when people would be losing their livelihoods because of your practices I think my response is proportional.


You are spot on with this. A while back a new soaper appeared in my Friday market, whom sent her husband to my booth. At first I did not know who he was when he asked how much for a bar of soap, I do have a sign but many seem to not be able to read, I told him $6, he proceeded to inform me they sell their soaps for $4. I informed him it is very bad practice to undercut the market and that goes for any business. In our former business we had a partner that could not figure out the concept. That is why is a former partner. I might mention that $6 is much to expensive for a 2.3 oz bar of soap unless it is made of gold


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## Luckyone80

cmzaha said:


> I might mention that $6 is much to expensive for a 2.3 oz bar of soap unless it is made of gold


 
I was thinking the same thing but again I wasn't sure how the cost was figured.

Last month I went to at least 4-5 craft fairs, I looked at every homemade soap booth I could find at all of them and I bought from each one. I didn't pay over $4 for any of the soap I bought and they were all at least 4oz bars. 
One vendor was selling her soaps for $3 for a 4.5 oz bar and I thought that was pretty cheap. She has a web site, check her out so you can see what she sells. http://www.soapguildstores.com/Bubb...tegoryID=4718&CategoryName=Cold+Process+Soaps

Anyway, she either gets a hell of a deal on her supplies or she isn't figuring correctly but I do see this kind of pricing a lot locally and online.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Luckyone80 said:


> I was thinking the same thing but again I wasn't sure how the cost was figured.
> 
> Last month I went to at least 4-5 craft fairs, I looked at every homemade soap booth I could find at all of them and I bought from each one. I didn't pay over $4 for any of the soap I bought and they were all at least 4oz bars.
> One vendor was selling her soaps for $3 for a 4.5 oz bar and I thought that was pretty cheap. She has a web site, check her out so you can see what she sells. http://www.soapguildstores.com/Bubb...tegoryID=4718&CategoryName=Cold+Process+Soaps
> 
> Anyway, she either gets a hell of a deal on her supplies or she isn't figuring correctly but I do see this kind of pricing a lot locally and online.


 
Just had a look, but I wouldn't use her as a good example (or even a legal one!) I have to say.


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## shunt2011

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Just had a look, but I wouldn't use her as a good example (or even a legal one!) I have to say.


 
Oh my, I agree.  I checked out her site and there's nothing listed as to ingredients etc....I wouldn't purchase from her at all.    I agree that 6.00 is a bit much for 2.3 or even 3.3 oz bars.   Mine are between 5-5.5 and I sell them for 5.50 and they sell retail for 6.99 at the couple stores that carry them. I know different areas can price differently so it may vary on where you live as well.


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## SplendorSoaps

shunt2011 said:


> I agree that 6.00 is a bit much for 2.3 or even 3.3 oz bars.   Mine are between 5-5.5 and I sell them for 5.50 and they sell retail for 6.99 at the couple stores that carry them. I know different areas can price differently so it may vary on where you live as well.



I addressed my holiday-themed soap pricing in a prior post, but I feel like I need to clarify something about the 2.3 oz. figure that is being brought up.  The 2.3 oz. soap on my site is sold for $6 as a "Guest Soap Duo Set."  In other words (and as it's listed in the item description), "This listing is for a set of two bars, each weighing at least 2.3 oz (weight vary, as the soaps are cut by hand)."  The listing is for (2) bars of guest soap, EACH weighing AT LEAST 2.3 oz.  The customer receives at least 4.6 oz. of soap for the $6 price.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/208525456/handmade-jasmine-guest-soap-duo-set?


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## shunt2011

I'm sorry but I was looking at the Pumpkin Spice that said 2.3 oz.... That doesn't state as a duo that I read. But you are certainly free to charge whatever your market can withstand.  I was just stating my point of view. :smile:


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## Luckyone80

shunt2011 said:


> I'm sorry but I was looking at the Pumpkin Spice that said 2.3 oz.... That doesn't state as a duo that I read.  :smile:


 
Thats also what I was looking at.


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## Luckyone80

shunt2011 said:


> Oh my, I agree. I checked out her site and there's nothing listed as to ingredients etc....I wouldn't purchase from her at all.


 
The ingredients are listed on the pkging on each soap. The ingredients are also listed on the web site at the top of each page of different soap types.


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## SplendorSoaps

shunt2011 said:


> I'm sorry but I was looking at the Pumpkin Spice that said 2.3 oz.... That doesn't state as a duo that I read. But you are certainly free to charge whatever your market can withstand.  I was just stating my point of view. :smile:



Thanks, Shari.  

I made my holiday-themed bars on the small-side on purpose.  My thought process was that they are limited edition scents, and I also feel that customers will probably appreciate those scents for a shorter period of time than some of the tried-and-true scents (like lavender or oatmeal honey).  As a consumer, I know that the Christmas scents kind of start grating on me around mid-January!  LOL  I also have a 20% off promo code out there for the holidays on my FB page (where all of my customers have come from so far), so the end price ends up being $4.80.


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## shunt2011

You are certainly free to charge what you like.  As I said if your market can handle it more power to you. 4.80 for 2.3 oz is still more than I could get here.    Good Luck to you!  Hope you sell a lot.


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## hmlove1218

Honestly, even if I bought a special holiday soap, I'd still expect it to be the same size as other things, especially if I'm paying the same price. You're charging $6 for a 2.3 oz bar just because it has a special scent,  but most sellers charge that much for a 4-5+ oz bar with the same limited edition scent. I personally think it's entirely too much unless there are some super expensive ingredients (argan, kokum, emu, etc.). I suggest you calculate out the cost like TEG suggested to come up with a more marketable price.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Okay, I think that we leave the bubbly site alone- it's not the topic here and I don't feel comfortable going tooooooooooooooo deep in to something about someone who isn't here.

Okay, mod-stuff over - do carry on!


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## cmzaha

Sorry I did not see that it was a duo either, also I realize it is not my business on what you sell your soap for.


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## TVivian

I have no problem with sellers pricing high. Not all soaps are created equally even if the cost of ingredients start out the same. I have issues with sellers underpricing which screws everyone up. But if you can sell a bar for 7,8,9 even 10 bucks and people want to buy it.. More power to Ya! Good luck with your new business


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## seven

TVivian said:


> I have no problem with sellers pricing high. Not all soaps are created equally even if the cost of ingredients start out the same. I have issues with sellers underpricing which screws everyone up. But if you can sell a bar for 7,8,9 even 10 bucks and people want to buy it.. More power to Ya! Good luck with your new business



exactly, Tania! one of my pet peeves is sellers underpricing, and sadly, there seems to be quite a lot where i am. one seller (who shall not be named) sells her soaps so cheap, a few of us local soapers are totally dumbfounded as to how she can afford this. imported colorants and FOs from BB are not cheap, with the high shipping/customs and all. if her soaps are single oil, unscented, basic ones, i won't comment, but they are not. 

---------------

Craig: well said!


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## goji_fries

seven said:


> exactly, Tania! one of my pet peeves is sellers underpricing, and sadly, there seems to be quite a lot where i am. one seller (who shall not be named) sells her soaps so cheap, a few of us local soapers are totally dumbfounded as to how she can afford this. imported colorants and FOs from BB are not cheap, with the high shipping/customs and all. if her soaps are single oil, unscented, basic ones, i won't comment, but they are not.
> 
> ---------------
> 
> Craig: well said!



Just a thought. It seems that people may do this to build a fanbase and temporarily drive competition away. It may also be that they don't crunch numbers and see next to nothing profit margins which is turbo-lame status.:thumbdown:

Your products are levels above the bottomfeeder competition. The market syphoning parasites' only strategy to lure in customers is to sell a cheap product for cheap because they cannot contend with your product quality, ideas, innovation and even packaging. Your lucky too, that you have a range of knowledge in making different types of products as opposed to being limited to soap batches only. You'll do well no matter what.


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