# E-wax in CP soap?



## SoapAddict415 (Jul 15, 2017)

Hi everyone. I'm not new to soap making but I thought this forum was the best place to post this question. Does anyone know if e-wax can be used to help harden CP soap. I'm very limited on hard oils/butters at the moment but I do have some traditional emulsifying wax and I'm anxious to try out my new mold.


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## DeeAnna (Jul 15, 2017)

I don't recall anyone trying e-wax in soap, and the idea doesn't appeal to me. That doesn't mean it can't be done, but I have no suggestions for doing this.

Go to the grocery store and find lard (or vegetable-based shortening) and some coconut oil. Lots of options with just those two fats! Even without those ingredients, you can make nice soap. Even 100% olive oil is a possibility.


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## CTAnton (Jul 15, 2017)

Ok...here's a test of my recall...there is a member of the forum...MorpheusPA  that had a CP soap recipe incorporating a small amount of e wax in it...do I search using her name...or his...I forget...


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## Zany_in_CO (Jul 15, 2017)

SoapAddict415 said:


> ... if e-wax can be used to help harden CP soap. I'm very limited on hard oils/butters at the moment but I do have some traditional emulsifying wax and I'm anxious to try out my new mold.





> Source: From my notes.
> 
> The term "ewax" covers a broad spectrum of emulsifiers covered by the INCI nomenclature "Emulsifying Wax NF". Just about every supplier carries their own proprietary blend, so it's challenging to find out exactly what is in it.
> 
> ...


Before using Ewax to harden your soap, it might be best to post your formula so we can have a look to see if it can be tweaked to INS 160 -- so called "perfect soap" according to Dr Bob McDaniels, who authored the book where the INS concept for soap formulations first appeared.

HTH   :bunny:​


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## DeeAnna (Jul 15, 2017)

McDaniels may have presented the INS concept to the handcrafted soaping community, but he definitely didn't create the concept. INS was created in the early 1900s for use in the soap making industry as a quick screening method for developing soap formulations that saponified sufficiently fast and firmed up quickly so they would be suitable for commercial soap making. 

As far as 160 being the "perfect" INS value for soap ... that's a big reach, quite frankly, for handcrafted soap. I wish McDaniel hadn't popularized that notion. If a person wants to use any reasonable amount of liquid fats (oils) which have a low INS values, you'll end up adding a lot of high INS fat such as coconut oil if you're determined to get to that 160 goal. The result can be an unsatisfactory soap.

While there's nothing wrong with paying attention to INS (or the Soapcalc bubbly, creamy, hardness numbers, etc.), it is important to remember that INS is only a general screening tool, not the be-all end-all answer to a good handcrafted soap recipe. There are qualities that INS doesn't begin to address, such as water content (lye concentration), any additives, and the sensory qualities such as harshness to the skin and lathering ability.

Most of my soap recipes for basic bath bars have INS values ranging from 135 to 155.


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## IrishLass (Jul 15, 2017)

I can't vouch for the results since I've never used e-wax in soap, but you could always experiment with it in a small batch, using it at the same rate one would use for beeswax in soap (I use beeswax at 3% in my beeswax & honey soap). At least that's how I would approach it.

Do you have any stearic acid on hand? As additives go, that would be another option. If you don't have any on hand, you can find it at craft stores such as Hobby Lobby or Michaels in the candle-making section. Here's a thread I found that talks about how much to use/best way to incorporate stearic: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=55577 

Barring any of the above, I like DeeAnna's suggestion to buy some lard at the grocery store. It adds hardness and makes wonderful soap. 



			
				CTAnton said:
			
		

> Ok...here's a test of my recall...there is a member of the forum...MorpheusPA that had a CP soap recipe incorporating a small amount of e wax in it...do I search using her name...or his...I forget...


 
I couldn't find any posts that mentioned e-wax (at least not yet), but I did find this post where Morpheus talks about using soy wax to harden soaps:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=535104&postcount=17 




			
				DeeAnna said:
			
		

> While there's nothing wrong with paying attention to INS (or the Soapcalc bubbly, creamy, hardness numbers, etc.), it is important to remember that INS is only a general screening tool, not the be-all end-all answer to a good handcrafted soap recipe. There are qualities that INS doesn't begin to address, such as water content (lye concentration), any additives, and the sensory qualities such as harshness to the skin and lathering ability.
> 
> Most of my soap recipes for basic bath bars have INS values ranging from 135 to 155.


 
I agree. For what it's worth, my two main formulas have an INS of 144 and 155 respectively and they both cure out plenty hard to my satisfaction. I'm currently using a 4-year old bar of my formula with 144 INS, and it is so rock-solid hard that I think I could probably knock someone out with it. 

SoapAddict- I think it's a wonderful idea to post your recipe to see if there's a way we might be able to help you tweak it to be harder without adding anything.


IrishLass


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## SoapAddict415 (Jul 15, 2017)

Thank you everyone ! I have coconut oil and small amounts of cocoa & shea butters but it's looking like I'll have to take Deanna's suggestion & go buy some lard or Spectrum's palm oil shortening if I'm lucky. I wanted to use 72% OO, 5% castor, 14% coconut & maybe 9% (or less) e-wax or something else to help make a firmer bar for easier unmolding. It's for a baby soap and I have plenty of time. I just didn't want to tie up my mold waiting for the soap to become firm enough to remove.


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## penelopejane (Jul 15, 2017)

SoapAddict415 said:


> Thank you everyone ��! I have coconut oil and small amounts of cocoa & shea butters but it's looking like I'll have to take Deanna's suggestion & go buy some lard or Spectrum's palm oil shortening if I'm lucky.



OO is great too but it takes a little longer to cure to a hard soap. 

Unfortunately I agree about INS - it does not work for high OO soaps. They are very hard after a good cure.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jul 15, 2017)

SoapAddict415 said:


> I have coconut oil and small amounts of cocoa & shea butters ... 72% OO, 5% castor, 14% coconut & maybe 9% (or less) e-wax or something else to help make a firmer bar for easier unmolding. It's for a baby soap and I have plenty of time.


Since you have cocoa butter and shea butter, I would leave the first three oils as is; lower the Ewax to 3%; then add 6% cocoa butter or split it between cocoa butter and shea butter. 

TIP: Use _soy oil, fully hydrogenated (soy wax)_ for the Ewax when formulating.

Quick questions: Water %??? SF %???


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## lenarenee (Jul 15, 2017)

SoapAddict415 said:


> Thank you everyone ��! I have coconut oil and small amounts of cocoa & shea butters but it's looking like I'll have to take Deanna's suggestion & go buy some lard or Spectrum's palm oil shortening if I'm lucky. I wanted to use 72% OO, 5% castor, 14% coconut & maybe 9% (or less) e-wax or something else to help make a firmer bar for easier unmolding. It's for a baby soap and I have plenty of time. I just didn't want to tie up my mold waiting for the soap to become firm enough to remove.



There's nothing wrong with that recipe (minus the e-wax, 9% added to olive oil) for making a nice hard bar of soap. Olive oil at 100% is known as castile soap, and old classic, and its rock hard after many months of curing (6 - 12 months is recommended for any high olive oil soap. That recipe will take a long time before you unmold it, but you can help that by using a lower water % - such as 33%.

You could also use that 9% in butters.

How old is the baby you're making this for?  Most pediatricians don't recommend soap for babies under the age of 2.


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## Dahila (Jul 15, 2017)

all my almost all soaps are in range of 145-150 and they are hard like a rock after cure,  I do not believe in the soapcalc numbers.  My avocado soap with avocado pure suppose to be 134 i think , I was worried a bit, It is like a rock after 8 weeks


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## SoapAddict415 (Jul 16, 2017)

Lenarenee, our grand-twins are due any day now. I figured that by the time they're old enough for their mom to use soap on them, the bars should be cured.


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## lenarenee (Jul 16, 2017)

SoapAddict415 said:


> Lenarenee, our grand-twins are due any day now. I figured that by the time they're old enough for their mom to use soap on them, the bars should be cured.



Congratulations! You must be thrilled!  

And high olive oil soaps often store well for long periods of time; keep them in a dark but ventilated, dry place. Its fun to try a sample of the soap before its cured - take notes on its performance, then put it away for its long cure. When you dig it out a year later and try it - well....I'll let you be the judge!


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## Arimara (Jul 16, 2017)

Dahila said:


> all my almost all soaps are in range of 145-150 and they are hard like a rock after cure,  I do not believe in the soapcalc numbers.  My avocado soap with avocado pure suppose to be 134 i think , I was worried a bit, It is like a rock after 8 weeks



Something to be said about avocado oil in soap- I have yet to have a soap NOT cure into a brick-hard bar when I use that oil.


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## Dahila (Jul 17, 2017)

Arimara said:


> Something to be said about avocado oil in soap- I have yet to have a soap NOT cure into a brick-hard bar when I use that oil.



it is not only avocado oil but also huge avocado pure


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## galaxyMLP (Jul 17, 2017)

I have made soap with e wax to make more of a lotion bar. I made it hot process with a large superfat. It made a creamy lotion like lather and a semi hard bar. I used a 30% superfat in that case with e wax and a high stearic soap recipe for the actual soap. I added the e wax in after cooking the soap itself so that it was well incorporated.

I don't think I would use it to harden soap as it is used to emulsify oils and is not meant as a hardener. You may want to try lard or tallow as DeeAnna says. You could also try adding soy wax to a formula if you don't want to use animal fats or butters.


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## Cindy2428 (Jul 17, 2017)

Carnauba wax is a vegan option.


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