# Fit of conscience



## Deborah Long (Aug 12, 2020)

I'm torn, really.  Recently I made a small purchase from a Youtube video soap star.  Just some sample soaps and a lotion.  (because - lotion)  (lol)
I was happy to get them.  Her items are normally sold out within minutes of her release.
Got everything, It seemed fine.  Later that day/night/next day, I opened the lotion and tried it - awesome!  It may not be my particular 'sniff' but - it's not greasy at all, maybe a little thin, but we all have our own special sweet spot for that, eh?
I looked on the label to see if I could figure out what she added/used to make it not so greasy.  As I read the label, I think to myself - hmmm...I don't remember *that* being in there...
I hop on the website where the print is much larger and - lo and behold - nothing - I mean nothing (with the exception of deionized water) matches what is on the label.  *blink blink*
Wait - WHAT?  the ingredients were totally different!  Either the ingredients on the web site are wrong or the label is wrong - but how am I to tell?

So - I emailed.  4 days ago.  Not a peep!  I don't know what to do!  Should I *do* anything?  What's in my lotion?
I'm in crisis over this!  (no, I'm not losing sleep, nor even thinking about it a lot...)  I will never order again from this well known soaper!
I don't want to ruin her reputation - but this is not right!

Email again?  fuggedaboutit?  Suggestions anyone??


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## Obsidian (Aug 12, 2020)

Are the ingredients on the label ones you are happy using? If so, then I would just use it. If you are not comfortable using them then absolutely request a refund or replacement.

Either way, I would leave a honest review. If she is purposefully changing the label without updating her website and isn't working with you, she deserves a bad review. Don't feel bad for being honest just because she is popular.


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## AliOop (Aug 13, 2020)

Try emailing again, or reaching out to her via one of her social media accounts. Because sometimes emails do go to spam, or get lost in cyber space, or aren't answered while someone is sick or on vacation.

I'd be very nice about it, saying that you like the lotion, and want to leave her a nice review, but you can't do that given the discrepancy.

If you don't hear from her within a week of the second contact, then it is time to leave an honest review that explains your concerns. Those kinds of reviews mean a lot to me when I see them, because I  and many others *do* have a lot of skin sensitivities, and we *do* need to be super careful about what's in our body care products.


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## Catscankim (Aug 13, 2020)

Well, I personally hate leaving a bad review, because i hate to hurt someones (usually) home-based business.

But on occasion i feel compelled to do so. And i really hate myself for it lol. Most of the time i will put in what was good about it as well.

On the other hand, if you dont hear back from them on a second attempt, then by all means, i think you are well within your right to express your concerns in a review. Especially if it is an ingredient discrepancy. You really did not get what you paid for.


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## shunt2011 (Aug 13, 2020)

I agree with Obsidian and AliOop.  Nobody want's to leave a negative review, however, you're trying to contact them with no response.  I'd give them a second shot and if still no response, leave an honest review.  I would also state that you tried to contact them with no response.      I would be concerned that the ingredients are that off from what's listed on the website.


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## Deborah Long (Aug 13, 2020)

Honestly, I personally have no skin conditions, other than aging.  But, having said that - the reason that I got into soaping in the first place is that everyone else in my family, and oh so many of my friends just can't use store bought items because of their many, many allergies and skin conditions!
I will email again and see what happens, thanks everyone!


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## TheGecko (Aug 13, 2020)

Obsidian said:


> Don't feel bad for being honest just because she is popular.



Just because she is a 'star', doesn't lessen her accountability/responsibility for proper labeling.  She may not be aware that her website doesn't reflect the change in her recipe or that a product has been mislabeled.  The first time I sold my soaps, there was a labeling mishap...my daughter was helping me out and she put the wrong ingredient labels on about a dozen soaps.  She didn't get what the 'big deal' was when I told her that we would have to redo the entire soap (couldn't take the label off cleanly)...no one would know the difference.  I asked her, "How would you feel buying a lactose-free product, only to end up sick because it contains lactose?"  She redid the labels without a peep after that.


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## cmzaha (Aug 13, 2020)

I am one with severe allergies and if I purchased reading the description on her website and received a product stating different she would certainly receive a very strong email from me stating I want my money refunded. Once something is wrongly labeled I would not believe it if I am told the label was wrong and the site is correct. As it is we all take a chance which is why I do not buy handmade from others. After a second unanswered email, you can bet on a negative review from me, with no sugar coating.


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## linne1gi (Aug 13, 2020)

Deborah Long said:


> I'm torn, really.  Recently I made a small purchase from a Youtube video soap star.  Just some sample soaps and a lotion.  (because - lotion)  (lol)
> I was happy to get them.  Her items are normally sold out within minutes of her release.
> Got everything, It seemed fine.  Later that day/night/next day, I opened the lotion and tried it - awesome!  It may not be my particular 'sniff' but - it's not greasy at all, maybe a little thin, but we all have our own special sweet spot for that, eh?
> I looked on the label to see if I could figure out what she added/used to make it not so greasy.  As I read the label, I think to myself - hmmm...I don't remember *that* being in there...
> ...


I ordered soap from a famous online YouTuber some years ago. Maybe the same person, I think. I have to say I hated the soap. It made me itch so badly. No weird ingredients that I can see, but I ended up throwing the soap away. Very poor quality. Oh well.


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## Deborah Long (Aug 25, 2020)

So, weeks later and still no reply.  I'm just throwing that lotion away.  

Bbye, loser!  lol


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## GemstonePony (Aug 25, 2020)

Deborah Long said:


> So, weeks later and still no reply.  I'm just throwing that lotion away.
> 
> Bbye, loser!  lol


Ok, but you're still leaving a review about it, right? For the good of the rest of us?
ETA: I'm trying to be more crunchy, and I would be livid if what I thought I was purchasing wasn't what I got. I don't care how good the result is.


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## Deborah Long (Aug 25, 2020)

Unfortunately, there is no way to leave a review.  The "Testimonial" page on the website is monitored, so of course, there is nothing negative there at all...


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## linne1gi (Aug 25, 2020)

Deborah Long said:


> Unfortunately, there is no way to leave a review.  The "Testimonial" page on the website is monitored, so of course, there is nothing negative there at all...


Hm, that's not good.


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## dibbles (Aug 25, 2020)

Deborah Long said:


> Unfortunately, there is no way to leave a review.  The "Testimonial" page on the website is monitored, so of course, there is nothing negative there at all...


Maybe write a testimonial anyway. Even if it isn’t published someone who should care might see it. I’m pretty sure I know who you are talking about, and given the growth of the company in the last year or two, she likely isn’t the one handling everything (labeling, customer service and reading emails for example) and might not even be aware of the issue. You could still be kind and say you reached out by email (twice) and received no response. And while the lotion felt nice and smelled good when you checked the label ingredients you found that they didn’t match the web store description. And this is problematic for someone with allergies or skin sensitivities. 

This makes me wonder if they are using a premade base (nothing wrong with that - I do it because I don’t like making lotion) and switched the base they were using and failed to update the label. Or the manufacturer switched the formula and they didn’t realize it. Hmmm


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## Deborah Long (Aug 25, 2020)

@dibbles Great idea!  I can try that avenue and see if something happens.  I don't want to be mean, but - the difference between the website and the label is like night and day!  I will try that!
Thanks!


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## Deborah Long (Aug 31, 2020)

So, I actually *did* write a testimonial and for whatever reason - that got their attention.  They've refunded my money.  Oh, they also stated the web site was correct, but no explanation for why the jar of lotion was not correct.  *shrugs*


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## dibbles (Aug 31, 2020)

Good to know they finally paid attention.


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## Deborah Long (Aug 31, 2020)

@dibbles I thought so too!


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## TheGecko (Aug 31, 2020)

Who was it?


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## Deborah Long (Sep 1, 2020)

@TheGecko Is it kosher to tell?


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## MarnieSoapien (Sep 1, 2020)

@Deborah Long If you're not comfortable telling, you can always send a private message. But I'm sure quite a few of us are curious...


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## TheGecko (Sep 1, 2020)

Deborah Long said:


> @TheGecko Is it kosher to tell?



Why wouldn't it be?  As a soaper, mislabeling and bad customer service reflects badly on all of us and we shouldn't be protecting them because of that OR because they are YouTube "famous".  What if the mislabeling had caused harm to you?  Or could cause harm to others?


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## Deborah Long (Sep 1, 2020)

Well, you're right.  I needn't make such a big deal about it and honestly, TheGecko is right....  It was Royalty Soaps who mislabeled....  *shrugs*


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## GemstonePony (Sep 1, 2020)

Deborah Long said:


> Well, you're right.  I needn't make such a big deal about it and honestly, TheGecko is right....  It was Royalty Soaps who mislabeled....  *shrugs*


Oh good, I can backspace my 5 paragraph essay about how it's especially important to name names if it is a high-profile company like that.


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## shunt2011 (Sep 1, 2020)

Deborah Long said:


> Well, you're right.  I needn't make such a big deal about it and honestly, TheGecko is right....  It was Royalty Soaps who mislabeled....  *shrugs*



I highly suspected that's who you were talking about.   Glad they refunded your money but they still should have explained why the two didn't match.   Shame on them.


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## Deborah Long (Sep 1, 2020)

@shunt2011   I totally agree...   I also think it's suspect that someone has a 'Testimonial' page that they then censor themselves...  That should be a big red-flag to everyone!  Even Brambleberry lets the negative reviews on products stand, for the most part that I've seen.


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## GemstonePony (Sep 1, 2020)

Deborah Long said:


> @shunt2011   I totally agree...   I also think it's suspect that someone has a 'Testimonial' page that they then censor themselves...  That should be a big red-flag to everyone!  Even Brambleberry lets the negative reviews on products stand, for the most part that I've seen.


I was considering ordering from them before I saw the Testimonial page and realized none of the products had reviews. The only other places I've seen those for are... uh.. scientifically dubious health cures and for umm... religious organizations with strict membership and systematically rigid opinions and hierarchies.
It doesn't make sense to me that truly excellent products should need such careful guarding against unbiased review. Of course, not everyone will like them, but that's the case with all things, and lends credibility to those who say they love it.
Oops, this turned into another essay. 
ETA: I love her videos, they're some of my favorites. I have no doubt she cares about her customers. I just value transparency for my financial transactions.


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## Arimara (Sep 1, 2020)

I won't bash the company. I actually learned a couple of things from Katie's videos. I also acknowledge that I can't use any, if not most, of Royalty Soaps products. I've only seen a few videos rating her soaps and people seemed genuinely happy. That doesn't mean I'm not sorry you had a bad experience- I am.


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## shunt2011 (Sep 1, 2020)

Arimara said:


> I won't bash the company. I actually learned a couple of things from Katie's videos. I also acknowledge that I can't use any, if not most, of Royalty Soaps products. I've only seen a few videos rating her soaps and people seemed genuinely happy. That doesn't mean I'm not sorry you had a bad experience- I am.


I agree her videos are great.  I enjoy watching them most times.


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## Deborah Long (Sep 1, 2020)

I was actually trying NOT to bash the company.  We are all human and we all make mistakes.  I was just concerned that this (IMHO) was such a BIG mistake and I was not getting any answers.  
I think Katie is awesome on Youtube.  (but, I probably won't buy from her again)


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## TheGecko (Sep 1, 2020)

I don't see where you are bashing the company, you have simply relayed your experience.


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## Claudette Carignan (Sep 1, 2020)

I think It’s ok to tell us who it was because no one wants a bad experience like you had. So thank you


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## Arimara (Sep 1, 2020)

I never said anyone was bashing anyone, only that I wouldn't. I've seen this happen between two popular nail artists (one is technically a licensed professional nail tech and the other a DIYer) where people were quick to start bashing the nail tech for a "crappy" product that actually wasn't crappy at all but the fault was really the DIYer for making their acrylic beads super wet (the nail tech did release how-to videos for their product with clarification). My thing is, I don't want to fall into such a group of responders, especially for products I can't use and have often wanted to smell. No doubt this was still worth knowing about and it is something to consider, should she actually start selling something that piques my interest and that I would not try an make for myself.


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## AliOop (Sep 1, 2020)

I appreciate that you shared this, as well!

I recently watched another soaper who's made it big on IG and also is making the rounds on some podcasts, YT, etc.  I was APPALLED to hear her blithely tell the story about how she was doing well selling soaps, but couldn't figure out why some turned out gooey, others were crumbly. She laughed about how she had been subbing oils without running the changes through a lye calculator - because she didn't KNOW about lye calculators, despite buying a basic soapmaking book and allegedly reading the whole thing. It was hard to follow the exact timeline, but it sounded like she didn't figure out the issue until YEARS after she started selling soap to family and friends, as well as at craft fairs. 

Nowhere in her story did she ever admit that it was wrong of her to sell soaps when she didn't know how to make sure they were safe. The whole point of the podcast was to talk about the wonderful people who had helped her, and how she planned to "pay it forward" to other soapers and business people. IMO, paying it forward includes admitting what you did wrong, and warning others not to do the same.

On her glitzy IG page, you can watch short videos of the huge batches she makes in her soap studio (garage without AC), with all kinds of botanicals on top. Her website makes all kinds of medical and cosmetic claims. If you look closely during the videos, you can see partial gel rings in the soaps.

It goes to show that great photos and savvy marketing make a lot of sales, even when the product may not be the best quality. A good segment of the population will buy anything if it makes them feel like they are saving the earth, helping animals, or other worthy causes. I'm not knocking those causes and am pretty environmentally conscious, myself. But I still look past the labeling and claims to see if the product itself is good, no matter how "green" it may be.


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## CatahoulaBubble (Sep 1, 2020)

I had the same issue when I bought from RS. The label was wrong on the lotion I bought. I also bought some soaps because I wanted to see how her recipe turns out and I didn't like them at all and they made my sister's skin dry and break out.  I like her videos because it's nice to watch the different styles she comes up with but the base recipe she uses just isn't to my skin's liking. I know her base recipe is probably a ton cheaper than mine but since I get good reviews and I like the way my soap makes my skin feel I'll stick with my own soap.


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## Soapdragon (Sep 2, 2020)

AliOop said:


> I appreciate that you shared this, as well!
> 
> I recently watched another soaper who's made it big on IG and also is making the rounds on some podcasts, YT, etc.  I was APPALLED to hear her blithely tell the story about how she was doing well selling soaps, but couldn't figure out why some turned out gooey, others were crumbly. She laughed about how she had been subbing oils without running the changes through a lye calculator - because she didn't KNOW about lye calculators, despite buying a basic soapmaking book and allegedly reading the whole thing. It was hard to follow the exact timeline, but it sounded like she didn't figure out the issue until YEARS after she started selling soap to family and friends, as well as at craft fairs.
> 
> ...


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## sarahmarah (Sep 2, 2020)

I’ve only had to deal with their customer service once due to an order that was severely damaged during shipping. I was promptly offered a refund or my choice of other soaps. I thought the service was excellent for what I needed at the time. Hopefully they’ll correct the issue. Glad someone finally got in touch.


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