# Here in Ohio



## Dreams (Apr 20, 2021)

I  love this sight,so much information...I have a question though,where is everyone getting  butters and waxes from since WSP is running slow these days? Thank you...


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 20, 2021)

Choose the "*Product List*" drop down Menu at the top for a faster selection without all the pictures. Soapers Choice is a good company to do business with. They have been around since "forever". Best to order more than one oil at a time. I wait until I need 4 things to spread shipping cost across the items.  They are in the Chicago area.





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						Home | Soaper's Choice
					






					www.soaperschoice.com


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## ImpKit (Apr 20, 2021)

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						Pure Essential Oils Supplier | New Directions Aromatics
					






					www.newdirectionsaromatics.com
				




I've bought some oils and butter from them not too long ago. Haven't tried the shea butter yet because I was finishing up my older stash. But shipping seemed pretty swift. They have lots of oils, butters, waxes, and EOs, as well as clays and salts. They have a shipping center in the US, despite being a Canadian company, so orders to the US don't have to pay international shipping costs and are charged in USD (I asked!) so no currency conversion either.

I've never used Soaper's Choice but from their website you have to buy in more bulk than is rational / feasible for me, which is why I went with NDA when I did.


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## Dreams (Apr 20, 2021)

Thank you..need a good place with good prices and shipping cost..Im online looking like im in the toilet paper isle trying to get the  best price per sheet..I can be there all day


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## Kcryss (Apr 20, 2021)

Dreams said:


> I  love this sight,so much information...I have a question though,where is everyone getting  butters and waxes from since WSP is running slow these days? Thank you...


Pretty much anywhere that isn't WSP. The last time I ordered from them I paid the extra to go to the front of the line and it was still a month before I got my order. Never again.


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## Dreams (Apr 20, 2021)

Kcryss said:


> Pretty much anywhere that isn't WSP. The last time I ordered from them I paid the extra to go to the front of the line and it was still a month before I got my order. Never again.


I ordered last spring from them, didnt pay extra to move to front of line but spent over $500 and took over a month to receive.. I like the prices and everything about them but takes to long to receive  Natures Garden is also here in Ohio but prices are not as good.. thinking about looking on Amazon and adding more confusion to my search..who has best price with shipping...that was another thing about WSP free shipping over $35..


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## Kcryss (Apr 20, 2021)

Try soapers choice, they have good prices if you can swallow the shipping fees and they are quick. You will not wait a month.


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 20, 2021)

Here's two more - If you can't afford to buy in bulk, these two were my "go-to's" when I first started out. MMS shipped their solid oils in buckets that I still use today. I always receive my orders from these two in about 3 days. Their soaping oils are good quality, better than WSP, IMHO.

*ELEMENTS BATH & BODY*

*MAJESTIC MOUNTAIN SAGE*


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## Dreams (Apr 20, 2021)

Kcryss said:


> Try soapers choice, they have good prices if you can swallow the shipping fees and they are quick. You will not wait a month.


Thank you will have to look into them, if its not the cost of the product its the shipping that chokes me....


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## Dreams (Apr 20, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Here's two more - If you can't afford to buy in bulk, these two were my "go-to's" when I first started out. MMS shipped their solid oils in buckets that I still use today. I always receive my orders from these two in about 3 days. Their soaping oils are good quality, better than WSP.
> 
> *ELEMENTS BATH & BODY*
> 
> *MAJESTIC MOUNTAIN SAGE*


Thank you so much will look at after dinner..I struggle with making choices like this,I always feel I could get a better deal..but j just need to pick so I can start making better cp soap and start trying lotion bars..


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## ImpKit (Apr 20, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Here's two more - If you can't afford to buy in bulk, these two were my "go-to's" when I first started out. MMS shipped their solid oils in buckets that I still use today. I always receive my orders from these two in about 3 days. Their soaping oils are good quality, better than WSP, IMHO.
> 
> *ELEMENTS BATH & BODY*
> 
> *MAJESTIC MOUNTAIN SAGE*



Neat. MMS carries lots of things that could be useful to me! I'll have to do some price comparison shopping later.
Meanwhile, from their website structure/layout I would assume that, like Rustic Escentuals, Elements Bath & Body is a WSP subsidiary.



Dreams said:


> Thank you so much will look at after dinner..I struggle with making choices like this,I always feel I could get a better deal..but j just need to pick so I can start making better cp soap and start trying lotion bars..



Yeah, I get the same feels about getting the best deal sometimes. But... most of it seems to be a wash. A few places have higher base cost but "free" shipping. Some places lower cost of goods but you pay for the shipping. For me Brambleberry might end up being the clear choice for a bunch of stuff because they're quite literally about 90 minutes away and thus shipping is cheap(ish). So... yeah. I get the feels.


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 20, 2021)

ImpKit said:


> Meanwhile, from their website structure/layout I would assume that, like Rustic Escentuals, Elements Bath & Body is a WSP subsidiary.


Oh gosh, don't tell that to the owner! As far as I know they are independent. They've been around since I first started soaping in 2004. They used to be in Kentucky and moved to Colorado a few years back. They're about 90 minutes away in Pueblo but they don't allow pick-up. Has something to do with liability insurance, if I remember correctly.

BTW, Brambleberry is notorious for slow shipping. Even before COVID. I used to wait until August to buy my FOs on sale and I would get 3 X 16 ounce bottles at a time  -- enough to last me for a year. They have lovely FOs. I buy Cybilla FOs there. She used to be a top seller. When she went out of business, BB snapped up her fragrances.


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## ImpKit (Apr 20, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Oh gosh, don't tell that to the owner! As far as I know they are independent. They've been around since I first started soaping in 2004. They used to be in Kentucky and moved to Colorado a few years back. They're about 90 minutes away in Pueblo but they don't allow pick-up. Has something to do with liability insurance, if I remember correctly.
> 
> BTW, Brambleberry is notorious for slow shipping. Even before COVID. I used to wait until August to buy my FOs on sale and I would get 3 X 16 ounce bottles at a time  -- enough to last me for a year. They have lovely FOs. I buy Cybilla FOs there. She used to be a top seller. When she went out of business, BB snapped up her fragrances.



So... Googled it & yeah they became a subsidiary / acquisition that was announced Nov 2020. So relatively recently.






As for Brambleberry shipping, they aren't the fastest shipper but they are notably swifter in my experience than WSP. >_> As I said, being basically just down the road from them probably helps.

ETA: Link to the acquisition announcement.


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## Dreams (Apr 20, 2021)

ImpKit said:


> Neat. MMS carries lots of things that could be useful to me! I'll have to do some price comparison shopping later.
> Meanwhile, from their website structure/layout I would assume that, like Rustic Escentuals, Elements Bath & Body is a WSP subsidiary.
> 
> 
> ...


You are so right, in the end its all about the same


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## dibbles (Apr 20, 2021)

@Zany_in_CO It is true that there has been some kind of a merger with WSP and Elements. My first order since the merger (a couple of months ago) didn't go well. Calling or emailing will just get you to the WSP customer service department. 

I still order from WSP, and just know that I have to plan way ahead. Orders aren't even shipped for 2-3 weeks. I usually only buy from WSP when the item I need is on sale. So, for example, even if I don't really need coconut oil when it goes on sale, I will order it if I know I will need it within 3-6 months. If I can buy products for comparable prices elsewhere, I usually do. 

I only order from Bramble Berry a couple of times a year, but the last few orders I've placed with them have shipped quickly and arrived within a week. It used to be closer to two weeks. I do think they have made an effort to improve their shipping time. At least that has been my experience.


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## ImpKit (Apr 20, 2021)

dibbles said:


> @Zany_in_CO It is true that there has been some kind of a merger with WSP and Elements. My first order since the merger (a couple of months ago) didn't go well. Calling or emailing will just get you to the WSP customer service department.
> 
> I still order from WSP, and just know that I have to plan way ahead. Orders aren't even shipped for 2-3 weeks. I usually only buy from WSP when the item I need is on sale. So, for example, even if I don't really need coconut oil when it goes on sale, I will order it if I know I will need it within 3-6 months. If I can buy products for comparable prices elsewhere, I usually do.
> 
> I only order from Bramble Berry a couple of times a year, but the last few orders I've placed with them have shipped quickly and arrived within a week. It used to be closer to two weeks. I do think they have made an effort to improve their shipping time. At least that has been my experience.



I was poking around earlier and both Rustic and WSP mention on their sites about the acquisition of Rustic by WSP, though Rustic has their own customer service. 

However Elements and WSP say nothing about THEIR merger... but the Elements site has the same customer service number as WSP.

Which is a bit shady I think... being honest about one but clandestine with the other.


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 20, 2021)

@dibbles Follow the "ETA: link" in @ImpKit's post #13.

I am just devastated by this news. I really liked doing business with them although that has fallen off since I retired in 2017. I've recommended Elements to SO many people on and off SMF. Tammy Tivis is the owner. It sounds like I won't be able to get in touch with her through normal channels to find out what's going on. Sad. 

We should probably post a general notification so others are aware.
@ImpKit Do you want to do that or would you like me to?


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## ImpKit (Apr 20, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> @dibbles Follow the "ETA: link" in @ImpKit's post #13.
> 
> I am just devastated by this news. I really liked doing business with them although that has fallen off since I retired in 2017. I've recommended Elements to SO many people on and off SMF. Tammy Tivis is the owner. It sounds like I won't be able to get in touch with her through normal channels to find out what's going on. Sad.
> 
> ...



You can do that.


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## AliOop (Apr 20, 2021)

Ugh, I'm glad I learned about this acquisition. I have a special order from some soaps with RE's Bora Bora FO. I used the last of what I had, and since it will now be shipped by WSP rather than RE, I will need to order more right away if I want the soaps to be made and cured before the end of summer!


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## ImpKit (Apr 20, 2021)

AliOop said:


> Ugh, I'm glad I learned about this acquisition. I have a special order from some soaps with RE's Bora Bora FO. I used the last of what I had, and since it will now be shipped by WSP rather than RE, I will need to order more right away if I want the soaps to be made and cured before the end of summer!



So I've only ordered from RE since they got acquired by WSP. They ship faster than WSP. Dunno why but... yeah.


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## dibbles (Apr 20, 2021)

AliOop said:


> Ugh, I'm glad I learned about this acquisition. I have a special order from some soaps with RE's Bora Bora FO. I used the last of what I had, and since it will now be shipped by WSP rather than RE, I will need to order more right away if I want the soaps to be made and cured before the end of summer!


I'm not sure that WSP is shipping for RE. I don't use RE as a supplier, but I seem to remember that they are still operating in the same location and separate from WSP. I do know that Elements is still carrying their own product line and operating from the same place. My problem with my Elements order was...
...I needed some no stir palm, and since I don't use palm that often I thought I had another bucket - but didn't. So I needed to order from a supplier I knew would get it to me in a reasonable amount of time. I have used Elements in the past, so checked there. It was listed as out of stock on the website, but as soon as the OOS notation was removed I placed my order. I added 2 bottles of sodium lactate and some Vanilla FO and pipettes - none of which I really needed but, you know, shipping. I got my order confirmation, and then a day or so later the shipping notice - which said the palm was OOS, but would be shipped when it was available - 'at no additional cost'. Um, hello, I've already paid for the palm and the shipping for that. So I sent an email (the contact us email now goes to WSP) - no response. After a few days I called - no available representatives so please hold - wait time of 7 minutes. I hold. After 7 minutes the call automatically goes to 'leave a voice mail' but guess what? The voicemail is full and I can't leave a message. I automatically go back to the 'please hold' queue and my wait time is now 5 minutes. This went on for awhile and I finally had someone pick up the phone. I asked if she could tell me when the palm oil would be back in stock. No, she really couldn't say. I asked if that part of the order could be cancelled so it wouldn't ship later and refunded. Why yes - she could do that. She told me the amount she was going to refund to my CC - it was for the palm only. I asked if she would adjust the shipping charges (because this was an order from Elements which doesn't have free shipping). Well, okay she would do that too. My order arrives and the box felt suspiciously light. No sodium lactate, with a packing notice that said it was OOS and I would receive a refund for the 2 bottles I ordered. So, I have now received a bottle of FO and some pipettes I really didn't need, and am still being overcharged for shipping and tax. I sent another email (as it was over the weekend). Sometime over the next couple of days, I did finally receive a response from someone at Elements who was more helpful. He was actually responding to the first email I had sent - I was wondering why on my order page I was seeing 'you could save $XX if I ordered from WSP'. But, since I had him there I explained the issues I was having. He looked at the order and said there was a credit pending and he would push it through. But it still didn't cover the whole difference in the shipping and tax I was charged. He said there was another $8 credit that I should see in a few days pending as well. It ended up taking a month, but I did get most of the difference between what I ordered and was charged (including shipping and tax) and what I received (with what the shipping and tax should have been). 

I really hope the problems I had were only temporary and that things improve again at Elements. I've always been very happy with their products and service, and am willing to give them another try. Although I have to say, I don't like finding out after I receive my order that something is out of stock and not included. If I were selling and relying on something I ordered to be delivered, and only found out I wouldn't be getting it a week or more after I ordered it - that could be a big problem.


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## AliOop (Apr 21, 2021)

Thank you for sharing your experience, @dibbles. I had better get my order in soon, it sounds like!


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## Becky1024 (Apr 21, 2021)

I'm in Ohio too and like to buy in the Midwest as much as I can to save on shipping cost and time. I like Bulk Apothecary when the items are in stock. They usually ship fast, and even with small orders the promo code "savings10" always works for me and saves 10%. Jedwards is another good source but a little pricier and shipping is a little longer since they are on the east coast.


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## Kcryss (Apr 21, 2021)

The issues with WSP seem to have started after the President and CEO changed. Debbie May stepped down in late January of 2020.

Edit: After looking at reviews on yelp it seems shipping has always been an issue.


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## Dreams (Apr 21, 2021)

Becky1024 said:


> I'm in Ohio too and like to buy in the Midwest as much as I can to save on shipping cost and time. I like Bulk Apothecary when the items are in stock. They usually ship fast, and even with small orders the promo code "savings10" always works for me and saves 10%. Jedwards is another good source but a little pricier and shipping is a little longer since they are on the east coast.


Thank you


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## Dreams (Apr 21, 2021)

Kcryss said:


> The issues with WSP seem to have started after the President and CEO changed. Debbie May stepped down in late January of 2020.
> 
> Edit: After looking at reviews on yelp it seems shipping has always been an issue.


Ordered once took over a month and that was last year..will have to plan better when use again..


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 21, 2021)

Kcryss said:


> The issues with WSP seem to have started after the President and CEO changed. Debbie May stepped down in late January of 2020.
> 
> Edit: After looking at reviews on yelp it seems shipping has always been an issue.


I agree with your first statement. I used WSP for 10 years -- up until I retired in 2017. If I spent $500 in a 12-month period I achieved "Silver" status that came with discounts on every order, other discounts and Freebies. It was well worth the money saved. Shipping and Customer Service was very good. Maybe because I contacted Debbie May directly rather than going through the website.

As for the second statement, I received an order in February 2021 that arrived in a mess. Call it sloppy packing. I lucked out. The gal I talked to made it right, replacing damaged goods within a couple of days. But that was before the LockDown.

For the past several months, almost a year, they're running Weekly Sales. No doubt to deplete overstock items. So many crafters and vitually no Markets or Events in 2020. When I think about, they are doing their level best to stay alive but with customers taking advantage of the sales, and most likely being understaffed, and the unreliability of "whatever" shipping service (who has the same problems) they use, it's a real challenge.

It's also the "New Normal" so we might as well get used to it until things level out -- and God only knows how long that will take.

The next crisis will be shortages across the board due to lack of raw materals and fewer companies, the ones that survived the lack of business, providing necessary infrastructure.


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## The Park Bench (Apr 21, 2021)

ImpKit said:


> I was poking around earlier and both Rustic and WSP mention on their sites about the acquisition of Rustic by WSP, though Rustic has their own customer service.
> 
> However Elements and WSP say nothing about THEIR merger... but the Elements site has the same customer service number as WSP.
> 
> Which is a bit shady I think... being honest about one but clandestine with the other.


It's my understanding that WSP is buying up a LOT of smaller companies including Make Your Own Buzz


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## Dreams (Apr 22, 2021)

Thank you all for the great information..I finally placed my order of cocoa butter,beeswax,shea butter ( still have but why not already spending) and last poly 80 since I want to learn bath bombs and keep hearing I have to use it,but don't wanna...any how went with Soapers Choice and shipping was $26 dont think that bad. Now on the hunt for wax for melts and other odds and end...thank you all and will be back for more advice.. searching, asking or Googling and bringing me here that way


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## Hope Ann (Apr 22, 2021)

Dreams said:


> Thank you all for the great information..I finally placed my order of cocoa butter,beeswax,shea butter ( still have but why not already spending) and last poly 80 since I want to learn bath bombs and keep hearing I have to use it,but don't wanna...any how went with Soapers Choice and shipping was $26 dont think that bad. Now on the hunt for wax for melts and other odds and end...thank you all and will be back for more advice.. searching, asking or Googling and bringing me here that way



Candlemakers Store north of Cincy has wax.  

Hope


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## Kcryss (Apr 22, 2021)

The Park Bench said:


> It's my understanding that WSP is buying up a LOT of smaller companies including Make Your Own Buzz


Hmmm ... that doesn't sound good. I use Make Your Own Buzz a lot. They are owned by Chemistry Connection who also owns Save On Citric.


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## earlene (Apr 22, 2021)

Kcryss said:


> Hmmm ... that doesn't sound good. I use Make Your Own Buzz a lot. They are owned by Chemistry Connection who also owns Save On Citric.


Actually, it is not really WSP who is buying them.  It is Incline Equity, who acquired WSP in 2019, who is buying them.  See this thread:  WSP Acquires Rustic & Elements


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## Dreams (Apr 22, 2021)

Hope Ann said:


> Candlemakers Store north of Cincy has wax.
> 
> Hope


Thank you will look into them and in-state


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## Sudds (Apr 24, 2021)

Sounds like it is going to become the big box store of soap supplies which means they might be able to push a lot of the smaller sellers out the door. It makes me mad so I am going to start looking at the smaller businesses and try buying more from them as I don't think their prices are going to make my soaps go up that much in price.


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 24, 2021)

Sudds said:


> I am going to start looking at the smaller businesses and try buying more from them...


You might want to take a tour of *MMS (Majestic Mountain Sage)* in Utah to see all they have to offer. I used them exclusively when I started soapmaking in 2004. They are family-owned -- top-quality products, tech support, packaging of orders is the best, good recipe library for more than just soap, an active blog that's worth joining and shipping used take 3 days to CO but I'm not sure if they can keep it up at this time. Some things are just out of their control like everybody else I imagine.


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## Sudds (Apr 25, 2021)

Thanks, Zany. I keep thinking of looking there and then forget...am going to look right now!


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## Dreams (Apr 27, 2021)

Took only 2 days to get my order from soapers choice.. impressed


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## earlene (Apr 27, 2021)

Dreams said:


> Took only 2 days to get my order from soapers choice.. impressed


They are quick.  Sometimes my order arrives the next day.  I am very happy with Soaper's Choice.


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