# Shave Soap Labeling



## TRBeck (May 1, 2013)

Hello, all, I'm new to the forum, though I've been lurking for some time. For whatever reason I'm always slow to join forums when I develop an interest in a new pursuit. I guess I want to feel like I have something to contribute before I sign up. Anyway, I'm not contributing here, but asking a question: I have been making shaving soap at home and have a good formulation that I think I would like to sell. I have done some research on setting up an LLC and need to do more, certainly.

However, I'm also beginning to do preliminary research on the packaging and labeling side of things. Is shave soap considered a cosmetic or a soap? My formulation is just soap, no detergents, but it will be labeled for the purpose of shaving. I intend to list the ingredients in full, the address of my business, etc., either way, but I would like to know how the FDA views shave soap. I know several of the longtime members here make shave soap and am seeking guidance.

I have no plans to sell any other soaps, bath products, etc., just the shave soap, and not as a full-time business, but I understand that I still need to be in line with regulations and don't want to run afoul of any legal restrictions.

Any insight you can offer would be very helpful.

Thanks,
T


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## VanessaP (May 1, 2013)

Well, I would go on the assumption that shaving soaps are meant to be gentle on the skin, so just to be on the safe side, I would label it as a cosmetic. I haven't even filed my business license yet, but I have been labeling all my soaps as if they are cosmetics anyway, since I plan to offer other items as well, its simpler to just have one way of doing it. Plus, INCI names can technically be the layman's name of it, which I think is the second revision of INCI? Technically, all three of the following ways to list items are acceptable:

Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil
Coconut (Cocos Nucifera) Oil
Coconut Oil

I prefer the Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil version because that is the most recent version AND it gets the layman's term closer to the Oil so in my head, I see Coconut Oil, rather than Coconut gobbledy-gook Oil.

But again, I would just go ahead and label it like a cosmetic, even on the off chance that it would be deemed a cosmetic.


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## Lindy (May 4, 2013)

Depending on what you used as lye you are going to label as Sodium Cocoate or Potassium Cocoate both of which are Coconut Oil.  Sodium is NaOH and Potassium is KOH.  When using these INCI there in no need to list the lye in the product as it is no longer present, or it shouldn't be if you have made your soap.


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## dagmar88 (May 5, 2013)

Lindy said:


> Depending on what you used as lye you are going to label as Sodium Cocoate or Potassium Cocoate both of which are Coconut Oil.  Sodium is NaOH and Potassium is KOH.  When using these INCI there in no need to list the lye in the product as it is no longer present, or it shouldn't be if you have made your soap.




I list what goes in. Otherwise, you'd also have to list glycerine, the water that's left in the end product and the oils that haven't saponified separately too, in the right order. 

*Is It a Cosmetic, a Drug, or Both? (Or Is It Soap?)*



I would consider shaving soap a cosmetic, as it's not solely intended to cleanse.


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## Lindy (May 5, 2013)

Here in Canada according to our labeling laws we only put on the labels what is in the product upon completion.  I realize I'm not selling in Europe but I am on one of the forums and the Safety Assessor that is on there states that is the correct labeling for there too.

All soap here is considered a cosmetic and we have to register each product as well as your company with Health Canada.


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## dagmar88 (May 6, 2013)

Lindy said:


> Here in Canada according to our labeling laws we only put on the labels what is in the product upon completion.  I realize I'm not selling in Europe but I am on one of the forums and the Safety Assessor that is on there states that is the correct labeling for there too.
> 
> *All soap here is considered a cosmetic and we have to register each product as well as your company with Health Canada*.



Same here.

So how do you figure out the correct percentages in your end product?


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## bodhi (May 6, 2013)

You should be fine selling it as just plain old soap.  If you really want to deal with the fda bs on this... Are you making any 'claims' about this soap?  If so, what are they?


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## new12soap (May 6, 2013)

Yes, shave soap has to be labeled as a cosmetic. If it is intended for any purpose other than cleaning skin, such as for shaving, it falls under cosmetic rules for labeling.


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## bodhi (May 6, 2013)

new12soap said:


> Yes, shave soap has to be labeled as a cosmetic. If it is intended for any purpose other than cleaning skin, such as for shaving, it falls under cosmetic rules for labeling.



I think you might be giving the fda a little too much leash here.  Where does it state 'for any other purpose'?  Not that i put too much stock in their regs to begin with, but they state a cosmetic is something used for, 'beautifying, promoting attractiveness, or altering the appearance'.  I dont think a shaving soap qualifies.  It seems to me that the act of shaving could be considered a cosmetic by this definition, but the soap is still just a soap.


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## Lindy (May 7, 2013)

I can't speak for the US as I am not familiar with their regs... I know Canada's & some of the EU regs.

Dagmar are you a member at Fresholi?  There is a thread there by our resident Safety Assessor on how to figure out your glycerin content... let me see if I can find it.

Found it:


> The amount of glycerin produced is proportional  to the amount of lye used - you can't apply a general ratio comparison  to the oils as these differ from oil to oil, depending on the fatty acid  component - the one thing they all have in common is the tri-glyceride  bond that is broken during saponification - this always involves 3  molecules of NaOH per tri-glyceride bond, and the result is always 3  fatty acid sodium salts (soaps), and a molecule of glycerin - so - 3 molecules (not strictly molecules, BTW) of NaOH always results in 1 molecule of glycerine - taking the weights into consideration the following is always the case
> 
> 1 g NaOH produces 0.77g Glycerine


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## dagmar88 (May 7, 2013)

bodhi said:


> I think you might be giving the fda a little too much leash here.  Where does it state 'for any other purpose'?  Not that i put too much stock in their regs to begin with, but they state a cosmetic is something used for, 'beautifying, promoting attractiveness, or altering the appearance'.  I dont think a shaving soap qualifies.  It seems to me that the act of shaving could be considered a cosmetic by this definition, but the soap is still just a soap.




 It is, but when it's presented as anything other than just soap, it's not.


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## bodhi (May 7, 2013)

dagmar88 said:


> It is, but when it's presented as anything other than just soap, it's not.



And that is exactly what i am wondering about.  I really should avoid these threads like the plague because i think they way overstep -but i got sucked in, lol, so here goes...

they do not regulate soap and their regs say that a cosmetic is anything that... 'except soap'.  Their interpretation-which i think is what most people read is a bit more liberal in 'rule making' semantically.  One of those things that if you dont know your rights, oops there goes another one- for your own good...  

I agree that if it is presented as something other than soap as opposed to other than just soap, then they may have some sway over it, but as long as it is saponified fatty acids, I am pretty sure it is still just soap.


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## christinak (May 7, 2013)

Keep this simple.  Your product is a soap.  List your ingredients and don't make any claims about what it does.  You can say it's shaving soap, you just can't say it's "moisturizing" shaving soap or anything like that.  If people want shaving soap they will know what it is 

Just like facial soap or foot scrub or laundry soap....it is what it is and you can say what it is....you just cant say anything ABOUT its intended properties.


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## Lindy (May 7, 2013)

bodhi said:


> And that is exactly what i am wondering about.  I really should avoid these threads like the plague because i think they way overstep -but i got sucked in, lol, so here goes...
> 
> they do not regulate soap and their regs say that a cosmetic is anything that... 'except soap'.  Their interpretation-which i think is what most people read is a bit more liberal in 'rule making' semantically.  One of those things that if you dont know your rights, oops there goes another one- for your own good...
> 
> I agree that if it is presented as something other than soap as opposed to other than just soap, then they may have some sway over it, but as long as it is saponified fatty acids, I am pretty sure it is still just soap.



It is a fine line.  As soon as you define a use for the soap I believe (and you would need to double check this) the FDA considers it a cosmetic because you are now claiming it is good for something other than cleaning.  Shave soap is not used for cleaning it is designed (or at least it should be) to provide slip and protection for removing hair.

Sometimes the smartest thing a person can do is err on the side of caution.  I respect that stance.

In Canada soap is a cosmetic, end of story, and as such we have regulations to follow.  The US is the only place I know of that doesn't regulate soap in any way as long as you call it soap.


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## bodhi (May 7, 2013)

Ok, im bowing out with this last comment.  Please read the regulations and not the interpretations.  The fda has a definition of soap and does not regulate soap.  The rest is semantics that are IMO tossed back on the general public in the hopes of making more regulations by acquiescence.


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## dagmar88 (May 7, 2013)

*How FDA defines "soap"
*

_Not every product marketed as soap meets FDA's definition of the term. FDA interprets the term "soap" to apply only when
_


_the  bulk of the nonvolatile matter in the product consists of an alkali  salt of fatty acids and the product's detergent properties are due to  the alkali-fatty acid compounds, and_
_the product is labeled, sold, *and represented solely as soap* [21 CFR 701.20].
_
_Products that meet this definition of soap are regulated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission

 (CPSC), not by FDA. Please direct questions about these products, such as safety and labeling requirements, to CPSC._

*If a cleanser does not meet all of these criteria...
*

_If  a product intended to cleanse the human body does not meet all the  criteria for soap, as listed above, it is either a cosmetic or a drug.  For example:_
_
If a product_


_consists of detergents, or_
_primarily of alkali salts of fatty acids, and_
_is intended not only for cleansing but also for other cosmetic uses,_
_it  is regulated as a cosmetic. Examples of cosmetic uses include making  the user more attractive, by acting as a deodorant, imparting fragrance  to the user, or moisturizing the skin._
_
If a product_


_consists of detergents, or_
_primarily of alkali salts of fatty acids, and_
_is  intended not only for cleansing but also to cure, treat, or prevent  disease, or to affect the structure or any function of the human body,_
_it  is regulated as a drug, or possibly both a drug and a cosmetic.  Examples include antibacterial cleansers and cleansers that are also  intended to treat acne._
_
If a product_


_is intended solely for cleansing the human body,_
_has the characteristics consumers generally associate with soap, and_
_does not consist primarily of alkali salts of fatty acids,_
_it may be identified in labeling as soap, but it is regulated as a cosmetic.




_Yes, it's soap and yes, soap is not regulated. It's not about the product, but the way it's presented. As soon as it is marketed to be anything but soap, it's not soap.
Say, three sellers sell 100% olive oil soap with lavender and geranium.
The first markets as soap, the second as moisturising soap and the third as acne soap. It would be soap, cosmetic and drug, even with exactly the same recipe.

You won't hear me say it makes sense, but it's the way it is 

Like Lindy said, soap is a cosmetic over here. Every scent and recipe I use has go through safety assessment before selling.


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## TRBeck (Jun 17, 2013)

Lindy said:


> It is a fine line.  As soon as you define a use for the soap I believe (and you would need to double check this) the FDA considers it a cosmetic because you are now claiming it is good for something other than cleaning.  Shave soap is not used for cleaning it is designed (or at least it should be) to provide slip and protection for removing hair.
> 
> Sometimes the smartest thing a person can do is err on the side of caution.  I respect that stance.
> 
> In Canada soap is a cosmetic, end of story, and as such we have regulations to follow.  The US is the only place I know of that doesn't regulate soap in any way as long as you call it soap.



I have decided to err on the side of caution here, and I think you're correct in your assertion that the FDA would consider shave soap a cosmetic.

I appreciate the depth of the answers provided here. I have plenty of time to work on labeling, as I have only now begun researching what it will take to be able to sell my soap. I'm based in TX, and I'm only looking to sell shaving soap, primarily on a bespoke basis to members of shaving forums. I doubt there is much concern with liability in a real sense, but I also recognize that reality and legality are sometimes far apart. So, I'm looking into liability insurance, licensing, etc., with the hope to begin selling the soap within a few months. Plenty of time to get my labeling down...

Thank you again for all of the insightful, impassioned replies.


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## Paintguru (Jul 19, 2013)

Just found this thread.  Here is a reference addressing this very question.  

http://goo.gl/HUcDl


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## TRBeck (Jul 24, 2013)

Chris, thank you! That's helpful info and seems to indicate that this stuff is, well, soap, of course, and the rest is just details.

I appreciate the insight.

Best,
Tim


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