# First of many Questions - Coconut Milk



## Amandac06 (Nov 17, 2014)

Hello Friends! 

I feel weird introducing myself since I feel like after months of researching and stalking this website I know a lot of you...not KNOW know you but in a soapy general sense :shifty:.  Anyways finally breaking the ice.  I have a few questions that I would love some input/advice on.  I did my first batch of soap last weekend and it went off without a hitch.  I think my recipe was fairly easy, no colorants or crazy fo, eo or additives.  So of course since round one wasn't a disaster I am going cra cra with round two.  I bought a can of CM and have sat here staring at it contemplating...to freeze or not to freeze? To add with lye or add at light trace?  Or can I do both?  

There's a question! Has anyone done 100% CM with half (frozen) added to the lye and half (not frozen) added at trace?  Am I delving into the unknown and uncharted? Do I want to? Am I completely inept for even asking that question?

Thanks friends!


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## Susie (Nov 17, 2014)

Hey and welcome!  While I do not have that experience, you are not inept for asking.  I am seriously looking forward to learning the answer myself!  Thanks for asking it!


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## Obsidian (Nov 17, 2014)

I use coco milk at 50% and add it to the warm oils before adding in the lye solution. That way I know its mixed in really well. I've tried freezing it and mixing the lye with it but the fats in the coco milk started to saponify and it turned into a globby mess. I've not used 100% coco milk and I don't think I ever will.

It doesn't really when you add it, as long as it gets mixed in well. I try not to mix anything with my lye besides water. I don't like the smell or possible issues that come up with mixing lye with other liquids.


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## lionprincess00 (Nov 17, 2014)

Never used co milk, but my guess would be...
1)) you can add the lye into water as half your water amount, and you can add the other half of the water amount as chilled co milk at trace.

2) You can get creative and use full water amount (38% water as a % of oils in soap calc) and do it like this. Say I have 16 oz oils at 8% sf, and the recipe calls for 6.08 oz water and 2.168 oz lye (this was an old recipe amount I am using for an example).
You could do 2.2 oz water with the 2.168 oz lye, and yes it's almost 1:1 ratio and very concentrated.... then add 3.88 oz co milk at trace. That was you don't have to freeze anything and you get more co milk than doing half water half milk. You can even bump it to 40% water as % of oils and add it as 1:1 water with lye and the rest as co milk to get a better full co milk amount. I did this for a GM avocado puree bar that needed the extra water to get it all in there right....cured out fine, just takes a tad longer. Just a suggestion

3) if freezing, I'd do 100% CO milk frozen adding lye to it. If you half and half frozen milk with thawed milk, the lye has a better chance (id think) of heating the frozen amount up and burning it. That same recipe above if halved would see you adding 2.168 oz lye into just 3.04 oz frozen milk (with the other 3.04 oz as thawed milk at trace). I'd be scared of overheating it and scorching it. 

Hopefully some others more experienced can help out...good luck!


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## new12soap (Nov 17, 2014)

I would not recommend adding it at trace. Your water discount would be too steep when mixing the lye with oils, you may have some trouble there.

I, too, would recommend the split method. Use 1/2 of the water in your recipe to mix your lye, use the other half of the water as coconut milk and stir the milk into the oils before adding the lye. No freezing, no seizing, easy peasy.

Good luck, let us know how it turns out


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## snappyllama (Nov 17, 2014)

I've done it a few different ways. In order of preference:

1. 50% water/lye solution with lye completely dissolved and at room temperature. Add 50% cold/slushy CM to solution a little at a time. If temperature starts spiking, set lye pot inside an ice bath. Pros: I get the heating out of the way before pouring. Very little smell or discoloration or acceleration when stick blending in oils. Cons: makes everything take longer and I might be waiting around for temperatures to rise back up.

2. 50% frozen CM to lye. When this is completely dissolved, I add remainder of slushy CM like above. Same pro/cons as above except I feel less in control/more time constrained. I got more discoloration and smell.

3. 50% water/lye solution added to oils. Then CM added at trace. I had acceleration issues doing it this way.

I do soap at full water.  Results of all methods were pretty comparable in the final soap - the first way gave me the most time for playing though.

And welcome!


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## IrishLass (Nov 17, 2014)

Hi Amanda! Questions are good and welcomed! 

I'm with Obsidian. I hate mixing my lye with milks. Other soapmakers are able to do so with beautiful results, but every time I've done so, it's turned into nothing but a mess. lol

I pretty much do what Obsidian does, which is known as the 'split method'. Basically, you split your total liquid amount into part water/part refrigerated (not frozen), or room temp, or even warmed milk. The water part gets mixed with the lye (make sure you mix at least the same amount of water as your lye weight or else the lye won't dissolve well), and the milk part gets stick-blended into the oils before adding the lye water (or just after). 

The above will make a 50% milk soap, but you can also make a 100% milk soap with the split method if you wish. I've done so on several occasions. I split my liquid amount up just the same as above, but I spike the milk part with enough powdered milk to increase the concentration so that it equals out to being a 100% milk strength for the whole batch..... all without a speck of my lye having to be dissolved in any of my milk (yay!).


 IrishLass


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## fuzz-juzz (Nov 17, 2014)

I also use CM with the split method and always works out fine. And I also can do 100% milk soap to save my life.   all I ever got was orange lumpy mess hehe.
I've given up and just use split method now. 
Since you are beginner I would recommend using full water and then halving it. Try few recipes and then try with a water discount.


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## Amandac06 (Nov 17, 2014)

Thank you so much everyone!  I appreciate all the input!  It looks like the majority prefer the split method and adding it at trace.  

I do like snappyllama's approach of adding slushy CM to the already dissolved 50% water/lye solution a little at a time (maybe when I am braver and have a couple more batches under my belt. I can just see myself having the temperature spike and me freaking out yelling "PUT IT IN THE BATH!!" and scaring the bejesus out of my Husband).  

I think my plan of action is doing the split method 50% water/lye solution and adding the 50% CM at trace just for a first try and so I don't give myself a panic attack messing with the lye. 

Thanks again everyone and I will definitley give an update on what happens


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## Susie (Nov 17, 2014)

Uhm...I don't think I read your first post as well as I should have.  You need to see how that does before you change a huge factor like CM.  At least use the same oils as the first batch in the same amounts so you can judge whether the additional pain-in-the-neck factor is worth it or not.

The best advice I can give you BY FAR, is to change ONE variable per batch until you can better judge what effects you get.  

The second best suggestion is to record every last detail of every batch.  And keep this info.


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## JustBeachy (Nov 17, 2014)

I use coconut milk in my main recipe every time. Obi's method is by far the easiest and in my opinion best way to use coconut milk. I've done the 100% slushy milk added to the lye and just didn't like the hassle. 

The fat content of Coconut milk is much higher than cow or goat milk, so only using 50% to 60% CM mixed with the oils is still giving you a high fat content. The coconut milk I use, Goya, is 15% fats, 9gr in 2 fluid oz.   Might want to adjust your superfat some to account for it.


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## Amandac06 (Nov 17, 2014)

Susie said:


> Uhm...I don't think I read your first post as well as I should have.  You need to see how that does before you change a huge factor like CM.  At least use the same oils as the first batch in the same amounts so you can judge whether the additional pain-in-the-neck factor is worth it or not.
> 
> The best advice I can give you BY FAR, is to change ONE variable per batch until you can better judge what effects you get.
> 
> The second best suggestion is to record every last detail of every batch.  And keep this info.



Hi Susie, I am sure I wasn't clear enough in my first post.  I tend to ramble .

I am definitely going to stick with my original oils/recipe since it behaved well for the first batch.  The only variable I was thinking about changing was using coconut milk for water (ex. combining with lye or adding at trace).  I don't think I had any real intention of trying 100% CM.  I more so was asking what everyone's opinion and their preferred method for replacing water for CM in their recipes is.  

Thank you for the advice too! I do tend to be overzealous.  Sometimes I need some reeling in.


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## new12soap (Nov 17, 2014)

Amandac06 said:


> It looks like the majority prefer the split method and adding it at trace.



The split method is _not_ adding the milk at trace. Trace is what happens after you add the lye solution to your oils and blend it for a while. Mix the coconut milk in with the oils _before_ you add the lye solution.

I just reread this thread, and the way I read it almost everyone suggested blending the milk in with the oils FIRST. Maybe I missed something :eh: But I really think that will be the easiest way to use milk the first time.


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## Amandac06 (Nov 17, 2014)

new12soap said:


> The split method is _not_ adding the milk at trace. Trace is what happens after you add the lye solution to your oils and blend it for a while. Mix the coconut milk in with the oils _before_ you add the lye solution.
> 
> I just reread this thread, and the way I read it almost everyone suggested blending the milk in with the oils FIRST. Maybe I missed something :eh: But I really think that will be the easiest way to use milk the first time.



You are absolutely right! I honest to goodness did not catch that and I am really thankful that you said something because I would have added it at trace which is not what the majority suggests.  I will be mixing the CM with my oils.  Thank you new12soap!


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## jules92207 (Nov 17, 2014)

Am I the only crazy person that does 100% frozen coconut milk cubes with my lye?!  Am I just making my life harder? So far I haven't had a problem.


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## KristaY (Nov 17, 2014)

jules92207 said:


> Am I the only crazy person that does 100% frozen coconut milk cubes with my lye?! Am I just making my life harder? So far I haven't had a problem.



 Haha! I was just thinking the same thing. I've only used CM a few times but have always used it frozen and mixed my lye into it. No problems for me either and it really makes a nice, creamy soap. Don't get worried about the smell, that goes away with cure.


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## Consuela (Nov 18, 2014)

I have always added my cm at trace. I've found that to be the best for me. One or two quick pulses with the blender then I stir by hand, otherwise it stars to set up on me fast. I work fast. 

I've only had one problem where my soap started to set up , and I stick blended my cm in for wayyyyy too long. Now I stir. Stir lots. 

And even with my regular discount, my lye and water solution isn't too steep. But then, I make larger batches.


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## janzo (Nov 18, 2014)

Hi everyone.  I also add my yoghurt just after adding the lye mixture.  I do one third yoghurt, would it benefit the outcome of the soap if I increased this to half yoghurt?  Thank you for your help


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 18, 2014)

KristaY said:


> Haha! I was just thinking the same thing. I've only used CM a few times but have always used it frozen and mixed my lye into it. No problems for me either and it really makes a nice, creamy soap. Don't get worried about the smell, that goes away with cure.


 

A lot of people masterbatch their lye, so they can't do a 100% water replacement and still use the masterbatched lye.  For others, it could just be that the benefits of 100% over split does not outwiegh the annoyance of having to freeze the milk etc.



janzo said:


> Hi everyone. I also add my yoghurt just after adding the lye mixture. I do one third yoghurt, would it benefit the outcome of the soap if I increased this to half yoghurt? Thank you for your help


 
I don't think that it would hurt, but it might not do that much good. There was a blind-test done and, per use, there was no detected difference between a dairy soap and a water one.  Over time, the enzymes might well prove beneficial, though.

Also, from reading the rest of the post here, is there a reason why you add it after the lye rather than before hand?


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## JustBeachy (Nov 18, 2014)

jules92207 said:


> Am I the only crazy person that does 100% frozen coconut milk cubes with my lye?!  Am I just making my life harder? So far I haven't had a problem.



I'm sure you're not the only one doing frozen coco milk. As for being crazy, I thought we all were a little bit crazy. We're soapers!:crazy:

I never had a problem doing it, just seemed to add an extra step and time to my process. I'd say keep doing it whichever way you're comfortable with.


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## janzo (Nov 18, 2014)

I have seen several posts that do it this way, and works well.  Don't freeze it after pouring just put it in room with a fan blowing on it, although I may try the freezing method just to compare!  Still fairly new to soaping (nine months) so open to any suggestions!


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## shunt2011 (Nov 18, 2014)

I too do the split method.  Add the milk to my oils and stick blend then add lye/water mixture.  I RTCP and rarely have overheating and I insulate my molds.  Once in awhile there will be a FO/EO that will cause some issues.  I use CM, GM, BM (lol), Cream as well as coffee, beer, wine.  My favorite is buttermilk and beer though.


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## dixiedragon (Nov 18, 2014)

I also do the 50/50 split - I bump up the water on Soapcalc a bit - from 38 to 40% - then I use 1/2 of the water suggested to dissolve my lye, and add the other 1/2 as coconut milk. I add my lye water to my oils, give it a few blasts with the stick blender, then add the coconut milk.

BTW, make sure to read the label on your coconut milk. I almost picked up can of "filled" coconut milk at Big Lots, thinking I'd found a bargain, but it had added soybean oil and other stuff.


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## Susie (Nov 18, 2014)

shunt2011 said:


> I too do the split method.  Add the milk to my oils and stick blend then add lye/water mixture.  I RTCP and rarely have overheating and I insulate my molds.  Once in awhile there will be a FO/EO that will cause some issues.  I use CM, GM, BM (lol), Cream as well as coffee, beer, wine.  My favorite is buttermilk and beer though.



Is BM buttermilk or breast milk?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 18, 2014)

janzo said:


> I have seen several posts that do it this way, and works well.  Don't freeze it after pouring just put it in room with a fan blowing on it, although I may try the freezing method just to compare!  Still fairly new to soaping (nine months) so open to any suggestions!



Do you mean freezing the milk & lye solution after the lye has been put in to the milk?  I think the freezing we are talking about is freezing the milk *before *adding the lye in to it, but not freezing it again afterwards


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## IrishLass (Nov 18, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> A lot of people masterbatch their lye, so they can't do a 100% water replacement and still use the masterbatched lye. For others, it could just be that the benefits of 100% over split does not outwiegh the annoyance of having to freeze the milk etc.



This^^^. The above comments have 'me' written all over them (me, me , me- it's all about *me*! And I am unanimous in that.).

 LOL  Just kidding about the part in the parenthesis, of course. Just feeling a little extra goofy today.

I master-batch my lye solution, which for me, rules out the frozen method. But in the days _before_ I started master-batching, I tried the frozen method a few times and found it to be quite the persnickety annoyance for me in comparison to the split method, so the split method became my go-to method of choice. My split-method soap comes out nice and creamy, but with less of an ammonia smell at the beginning, I noticed. The color is a light cream color, too.

I admire those that have the patience to do the frozen method, though. More power to them. People should go with whichever method they are most comfortable. 


 IrishLass


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## shunt2011 (Nov 18, 2014)

Susie said:


> Is BM buttermilk or breast milk?


 

Buttermilk. Sorry didn't think about Breast Milk.


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## IrishLass (Nov 18, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> AAlso, from reading the rest of the post here, is there a reason why you add it after the lye rather than before hand?



I realize your question was pointed at Janzo, but I just wanted to chime in for the sake of Janzo, who is fairly new (and anyone else), that although I mostly add my milk to my oils before adding my lye solution, I sometimes add it immediately _after_ I add my lye solution. Both ways work fine for me without any issues. 


IrishLass


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## IrishLass (Nov 18, 2014)

shunt2011 said:


> Buttermilk. Sorry didn't think about Breast Milk.


 
 I was thinking something else, but it's probably best that we don't go there. :wink:

 IrishLass


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## Susie (Nov 18, 2014)

Hence my burning need for clarification.


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## toyah999 (Nov 19, 2014)

I always add 100% frozen coconut milk to the lye and never had any probs, makes beautiful soap that is a gorgeous cream colour.


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## Amandac06 (Nov 19, 2014)

Well...here it is :-D.  

I added the room temp coconut milk to my warm oils, stick blended added my lye solution a little at a time and stirred with spatula until all the lye solution was in with the oils and nothing crazy happened, so I stick blended that.  Comparisons from my first batch with the same oils/butters minus the CM; this second batch was so much creamier and it just looked a lot nicer (not sure how to explain) but it behaved well concerning trace.  Added fos, blended and poured in the mold.  

As you can see it partially gelled but honestly I am so proud of this soap!  I was so nervous something catastrophic would happen!!!  I will take partial gel over lye volcano any day.  Thanks so much again to everyone I am still learning so much and I appreciated everyone's input.


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## new12soap (Nov 19, 2014)

:clap:

lovely soap!

and don't worry about partial gel, that little ring you can barely see now will fade a lot over the cure time.


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## IrishLass (Nov 19, 2014)

I agree- lovely soap!


 IrishLass


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## jules92207 (Nov 19, 2014)

Looks beautiful! Congrats!


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