# How many items to start?



## BattleGnome (Jun 3, 2017)

As I am starting to do the research into opening my own business I've been wondering...

For those who have practical experience, do you find it's better to open with more product options (e.g.: lotion, lip balm, soap, misc) or more scents/flavors? 

I have three products in mind and am starting to look at scents/flavors with the idea to add more later. Should I be looking at the reverse and add more scents later on?


----------



## Susie (Jun 3, 2017)

I know you asked for only opinions from people with practical experience, but I have been looking at lots of small soaping shops online, as I am also thinking of starting to sell ASAP after this move.  This is more observation than experience, so take it for what it is worth (absolutely nothing).

There are some sites with lots of scents/color palettes of only soap.

There are some sites with several products of the same scent/color palettes.

The ones I like the best have a medium mix of both.  The "guy" soaps are only soaps, but sometimes on a rope.  (I will be trying this next, as my hubby has expressed interest.)  But there are only a few.

The ladies' soaps have other corresponding products with it-lotion, lip balm, body butter, bath bombs.  But there are only a few.

The kids (when they have them) have soap and bathbombs with sometimes a rubber ducky or some kind of toy.  But only a few.

Some even offer to custom make a loaf of soap if you buy the whole batch and wait for delivery.  This is smart, as the customer can get a good deal on the exact soap they want.  Do, however, cut the loaf for the customer.  You are asking for a lawsuit if you expect customers to be safe cutting a loaf of soap.


----------



## Millie (Jun 3, 2017)

For my own shopping habits, it is the look of abundance that draws me into a booth - the variety isn't as important to me, but well stocked tables and shelves give me a sense of opulence and satisfaction, even if I am just buying apples  I avoid booths with little stock, worried I'll get stuck chatting with a desperate vendor.

Online (shopping for presents, rather than must have items like appliances or hardware) I like stores with around three pages - I get the feel of abundance without feeling overwhelmed. Three pages can be all products (like Auntie Clara's shop!), or three pages can be sorted products, as in three pages of soaps and three pages of lotions, etc. It is not a hard and fast rule, and I am one odd person.


----------



## Rusti (Jun 3, 2017)

Millie said:


> For my own shopping habits, it is the look of abundance that draws me into a booth - the variety isn't as important to me, but well stocked tables and shelves give me a sense of opulence and satisfaction, even if I am just buying apples  I avoid booths with little stock, worried I'll get stuck chatting with a desperate vendor.
> 
> Online (shopping for presents, rather than must have items like appliances or hardware) I like stores with around three pages - I get the feel of abundance without feeling overwhelmed. Three pages can be all products (like Auntie Clara's shop!), or three pages can be sorted products, as in three pages of soaps and three pages of lotions, etc. It is not a hard and fast rule, and I am one odd person.



I think there's some truth to this, to be honest. I don't think it's just you. I don't attend a whole lot of craft fairs, but I do visit cons once in a while and I am definitely drawn to the booths that have what appear to be decently stocked, well-presented tables. Things to look at or thumb through, maybe handle a little bit. 

The same goes for websites. I have to remind the university departments we work with constantly that we cannot put up a page with all of two sentences on it and not expect a user to bounce right out of there the second they hit it. There's nothing like a web page that appears to be empty to cause a bounce within a few seconds.


----------



## Susie (Jun 3, 2017)

Millie said:


> For my own shopping habits, it is the look of abundance that draws me into a booth - the variety isn't as important to me, but well stocked tables and shelves give me a sense of opulence and satisfaction, even if I am just buying apples  I avoid booths with little stock, worried I'll get stuck chatting with a desperate vendor.
> 
> Online (shopping for presents, rather than must have items like appliances or hardware) I like stores with around three pages - I get the feel of abundance without feeling overwhelmed. Three pages can be all products (like Auntie Clara's shop!), or three pages can be sorted products, as in three pages of soaps and three pages of lotions, etc. It is not a hard and fast rule, and I am one odd person.



^^^Definitely this!  I am drawn to full tables.  It can be a small table, or a big table, but it needs to be a full table.  

With soap or B&B products, having lotion to try, unwrapped bars to sniff, or other "touchies" is good.  

If you have only a few lip balms left, put them in a small basket so it looks full.

One thing I don't like, however, is when there is more "decor" than product.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jun 3, 2017)

I think that, for those in the USA (which I think BG is) there is not much downside to having a number of various scents.  You don't have to register the variations and so on, so having at least some products with the various scents on offer will give you an indication of which ones are going to be popular and you can make sure that you have more of those.  It's not like if it takes 4 months to sell a whole batch of one scent means that you have lost money - the ingredients etc will pay for themselves however long it takes to sell all the soaps.  Then you just don't buy that scent again in the future.

The same can be said of various products, to a degree.  Even considering having to buy a batch of lib balm tubes or whathaveyou, even if they sell slowly it just means more time to recoup that investment, not that the investment is really lost.  Most ingredients are used in more than one product, anyway, so it's not like you'll be left with a load of wax with no other use.

The issue would then be the cost of the initial investment.  As you know, you should be expecting to lose money for a while anyway, so what is the cost of 50 containers in the grand scheme of things?


----------



## dixiedragon (Jun 3, 2017)

Not a seller, here's my opinion as a buyer.  Because yes, I buy other people's soap, lip balm and lotion. Because I am a nut job. 

I am often looking for a scent that really sends me. So if I see somebody selling lip balm but they have the standard mint, vanilla etc, I'm probably going to pass it up. But if they have something unusual, I'm going sniff it and if I like it, I'll buy it. When getting started, I think you would be better off to have have (for example) 4 jars each of 10 scents vs 10 jars of 4 scents.


----------



## cherrycoke216 (Jun 3, 2017)

I copy paste another thread I written minutes ago: "After a long stormy pouring rain market day, ( they didn't cancel it despite weather warnings ) , people just passing by to get inside the building,and I'm kinda soaking wet in spite of the tent,coming home with no soaps sold, and the old gal next to me sell a few of bracelets she told me it's from TaoBao (China) and she just cut it longer or shorter to "CUSTOMIZE",and claims it's imported from South America, and her profit margins sounds like multiple times,and she kinda mocks my work, ask about my marriage status, dating status, work,etc., and order me the new kids in town to buy her hot coffee, all I can do is nod and smile and being polite, I feel exhausted and crappy.  And now I'm signing up a whole new world I have never traveled..."

Ok, here's the question, you all say you like abundant table, my table has lots of products, in like 4 categories with 4-6 scents, and lots of color in my products, and with some display to have the visual effects. the old gal who sells bracelet uses same table and her product is crammed into a 30 cm * 30 cm plain jewelry black display. In the back of the table is her food, drinks, and scissors and couple of bags. And her jewelry style is teeny tiny charms. All the same. In like 4 categories. 

She just leave the booth chatting or stay in playing YouTube really loud. But I keep watching people walking by with a smile. Only one boy smiled back and bow at me in the pouring rain. But he went away eventually to get inside the building to avoid the storm.

Can you guys experts tell me why she outsells in pouring rain? Please enlighten me.

Oh, by the way, my products are not a dime a dozen in my country. It's kind of new and unlike other sellers.


----------



## BattleGnome (Jun 3, 2017)

cherrycoke216 said:


> Can you guys experts tell me why she outsells in pouring rain? Please enlighten me.
> 
> Oh, by the way, my products are not a dime a dozen in my country. It's kind of new and unlike other sellers.



Maybe it is because you are new. Does she have a more established booth where the regulars recognize her? I imagine once you settle in and become a regular face you won't have the issue again.



duckinatub said:


> Ask me anything in details, but give me more details about your business



Putting down basics because I'm still working on it all. Everything I'm working on is dependent on zoning laws, I intend this to be a work from home venture and thankfully I can adapt it if zoning doesn't work out.

My theme is books. I am working on a blog and hope to make an appointment with a small business group soon to work out the legal stuff. 

I have been putting off making a business plan in part because I don't have the appointment set up and because it's kind of a scary thing to write out. Tonight I was planning on brainstorming scents to go with my theme (TEG is right, I'm in the US and don't have to worry about registering variations). To simplify my start I'm going to work with premade bases and customize with color/scent. I have a few ideas for the "from scratch" stuff which I definitely plan on figuring out before I go to any live market.

To summarize the advice I'm seeing: it looks like I should go for "clean abundance" of my products by keeping it simple but having unique options to draw the crowd?


----------



## dixiedragon (Jun 4, 2017)

Ignore that lady. I think she was trying to psych you out. I'm not a seller, but I think sometimes having one interested-looking customer can set off sort of a chain reaction. I helped my mom with her craft fair booth and it seemed like it was no customers, then 3 customers at once.

Maybe try this to get people to pause at your booth - ask them to smell 2 or 3 scents and tell you their favorite. Write it down and thank them for their opinion. then ask them what their favorite scent is for lip balm or soap.

Create positive interactions, and think of every positive interaction as a "win" even if they don't buy anything.


----------



## cherrycoke216 (Jun 4, 2017)

BattleGnome said:


> Maybe it is because you are new. Does she have a more established booth where the regulars recognize her? I imagine once you settle in and become a regular face you won't have the issue again.
> To summarize the advice I'm seeing: it looks like I should go for "clean abundance" of my products by keeping it simple but having unique options to draw the crowd?



It's outside a monument downtown. Full of foreign tourist and young teenagers and hipsters. All kinds of age groups for foreign tourists( 70% under 40 years old, and others are families and seniors) , locals' age group is like 15-40, some are young couples with toddlers; oh and tons of LGBT people. ( gay bars, gay barber shops, gay couture and underwear and adult toy ) and a few old shops selling customized clothes. 

I think foreign local ratio is like 65:35 at the monument craft fair market. So I'm kinda at lost here. Sorta hard to pinpoint a customer base preference. Young vibe with a few all age group products?

From my observation, everyone bought anklet or bracelet is a new customer.  I kinda ask part time students her shop name ( she did not have it on ) and google her. She sells online, too. But looks like mostly sells at market. Her customer is like 80% foreigner. 

What amazes me is her pricing did not scare off potential buyers. But from what she said, it's like 10 or 30 times her cost of materials. Probably higher, I have never tried google pure silver charms or 18 k plated gold, so might be higher because things on TaoBao is dirt cheap!

I use premium materials and some even French or British and USA brand organic stuff and I price it NOT accordingly. I sell it cheaper, but some people said it's too expensive. I'm actually cheaper than leading brand and most of the brand selling soaps. This means my profit margin is low. And people don't even like my pricing!



dixiedragon said:


> Ignore that lady. I think she was trying to psych you out. I'm not a seller, but I think sometimes having one interested-looking customer can set off sort of a chain reaction. I helped my mom with her craft fair booth and it seemed like it was no customers, then 3 customers at once.
> 
> Maybe try this to get people to pause at your booth - ask them to smell 2 or 3 scents and tell you their favorite. Write it down and thank them for their opinion. then ask them what their favorite scent is for lip balm or soap.
> 
> Create positive interactions, and think of every positive interaction as a "win" even if they don't buy anything.



Thanks Dixie, my sister's friend came by today. Her chit chat did drew attention to booth. And I sell some today. 

I was kind of upset because it's a rain storm that killed 2, and 5 missing in my country. ( landslide, sudden flooded "river" in the middle of the road because of bad drainage/ septic systems. ) And it never occurred to them it might be dangerous even it's downtown. And the lady share a tent with me is quite a show. 

I'm not upset about not selling, though it would be nice. But in the storm people barely stops at booth. And we are kind of doomed there. Even if someone stops and ask price and don't like my pricing, I will feel better. Or chit chat some small talk. But none of this happened. Most of the shop owner just sit there and watch it rain cats and dogs. Like 98%  of us. And worst of it all, this craft fair is operated by government culture department. It really feels like they just want shop owners to pay booth fees and doesn't care if you die on the way here or something.


----------



## KristaY (Jun 4, 2017)

Little freebies help get people in too, either online or in person. 

A couple of years ago I bought 100 poufs for $10 (it was the daily special on some soap supply site). What it didn't tell me was the size - they were minuscule, smaller than the palm of my hand.:evil: I was planning to include them with gift baskets but they just wouldn't cut it. After annoyingly shoving them into a closet, I came across them a couple of months ago so decided to give them away at my last craft show. I put them in a bright red basket which I gave to my mom (who was helping me out that day). I told her I was irritated at their tiny size so give them away to any and all passers-by. With smiles and happy chatter, she handed them out, suggesting they'd be good as a travel pouf or scrubbing small areas in the kitchen or bath. That tiny 10 cent item brought in at least half the people my mom spoke to. Probably half of those people bought something. They were all appreciative of the gift. Now I'm not so annoyed with those little suckers and will probably buy more just to give away.

The moral of my long-winded story is everyone likes something that's free. It can be as simple as a dime pouf or, buy this many and get that free.


----------



## cherrycoke216 (Jun 5, 2017)

Battle Gnome, I'm sorry I kinda " Look squirrel!" Your thread. But their response makes me wonder why the old gal with so little product to sell & so confined little space will draw attention to buyers, thus I asked.

I think your theme is cool! You can even do character scents, scene scents or color scheme, chapter theme, etc. craft market is fun if you meet up with some funny, caring people you might have never met in real life. And Dixie's way is really cool to do a interacting with customers and doing a poll at the same time.  It seems like other country's market are often let the shop owner have a single exclusive  booth, unlike us. 

Product designing is the most fun and most difficult part of soaping! How to figure out your target customer age group, income,and their interest is pretty hard! 

Wish you luck.


----------



## BattleGnome (Jun 5, 2017)

No worries CherryCoke. You brought up a good reminder that no matter how much work you put in and how much you do right the customers may not care.

I'm off to figure out what free stuff, polls, and miscellaneous stuff I can add to my marketing plan


----------



## shunt2011 (Jun 5, 2017)

I bought 200 of those poufs from Elements Bath and Body and they are small.  I give one or two with a 4 bar purchase.  With larger purchases I'll generally incude a small scrub or a lip balm.  Things that don't have a big cost attached.  It makes the customer happy and I usually get more purchases from my customers

I also have a very plentiful display. My website needs some tweaking badly.  I just have no time to make it how I want it.  Life has gotten crazy and a lot of things are waiting for attention.


----------



## earlene (Jun 5, 2017)

Regarding, 'your product (soap or whatever) costs too much', I have this to say.  _Highlight your ingredients and price accordingly._  If your customers at a fair are mostly tourists, the majority expect higher prices.  You are not doing yourself a favor to undercut your own profits, especially if there are so few vendors who sell your product.  As a frequent traveler, I am amazed at the varied prices I find for handcrafted soap.  Some bars I have paid as little as $3.75 for, but most are more in the range of $7.00 or more per bar.  I have seen a bar of soap for over $15 in some stores.  I doubt $15 bars of soap are purchased by locals, but in areas with a lot of tourist traffic, I expect they sell.

We used to own a restaurant with very good food on our menu.  Highly praised, our food was and we had an excellent chef.  Yet some of the locals complained it was too expensive. It really wasn't.  It was reasonably priced and comparable to other restaurants in our area. In fact some restaurants tended then and still do, to overprice their drinks to help compensate for loss of profits in food pricing.  We tried to offer reasonable prices on drinks.  Perhaps that was a financial mistake, but that is in the past.  Anyway, a few doors down from us was (and still is) a very well established and well known restaurant with not-very-good food (but apparently good enough that it stays in business for decades and has become a destination for people from far and near) and their prices were much higher than ours.  The locals didn't seem to mind paying high prices for mediocre food at the restaurant down the street.

There will always be naysayers and folks who want something for nothing and will be unwilling to pay a reasonable price for anything. But the customers who are willing to pay for a good product are the customers you will keep as long as your product is good and you remain accessible.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jun 5, 2017)

A good reminder that your product is not everything - a good soaper does not automatically equal a good soaping business. Hence why some business which seem "less good" than others still seem to thrive


----------



## dixiedragon (Jun 5, 2017)

Possibly that lady's stuff fits in with tourists' ideas of what your country or culture is about, and thus is more of a "souvenir"? Can you highlight local ingredients, or make soaps inspired by local things?

I admit, as a tourist I would probably buy a piece of jewelry or a food item as a souvenir vs soap, because that seems to me a more unique local item.


----------



## cmzaha (Jun 5, 2017)

If you are doing craft fairs my best suggestions is to have a good selection of products and soaps. Even when I first started I started with approximately a selection of 25 soaps and finally doubled it. My hubby's trick was to motion someone over to smell a sample he had in his hand. It was usually plumeria and a DB sample for men to smell. Many times he would get a sale even when you knew the customer was going to just walk by. Some will buy, some will keep walking and there is always the one that will make a rude comment or just ask for something they know you do not have, instead of saying no. Do Not sit at the back of the booth playing on a tablet, phone, etc. I do sit and crochet but I am also selling crochet so they will stop and ask what I am making. But I never continue to crochet if they stop at my booth even if I lose my place...You would be amazed how many will buy a soap or lotion. If the day is slow walk in front of your booth looking at your soap or tidying up, people at a booth will attract people. There is tremendous competition where I live and sell. My tables are four across the front, two regular, and two elevated with covered board for elevations for the soaps. For my lotions I use the covered boards on the top table and acrylic stands on the bottom table with solid tablecloths. Let your product do the talking not the busy table coverings. I find in any market it takes 6-12 months to build up return customers. Closer to the year so do not attend one market and know how it is going to work. Many customers do not like un-wrapped soap either so keep that thought in mind when packaging. 

For a web store it takes daily promoting, with the amount of B&B sellers. This is my daughters site, it has not been updated for awhile since she has stopped making her products. Even my soaps are no longer updated, but you can see how it is set up. I am, by no means, not saying it is better than someone else's just another to check out. I always found it quite easy to navigate. www.actzstore.com

Good Luck with your venture. It is hard work and do not get discouraged even if you do not make even supplies the first couple of years. I also forgot to add that I always put in a small gift of a lotion, new soap, foot scrubby, etc when a person makes a purchase. No one leaves without an extra goodie. Goodies depend on purchase size. I have even been known to give someone a bar of soap to try if they stop at my booth after buying from a competitor at the market. Never be afraid to give out a freebie, people love gifts


----------



## TBandCW (Jun 8, 2017)

I make it a point to say hi to everyone who walks by.


----------



## dixiedragon (Jun 16, 2017)

Considering the investment you would be making - I would make a tiny batch of each and do a blind survey.


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Jun 18, 2017)

Millie said:


> I avoid booths with little stock, worried I'll get stuck chatting with a desperate vendor.


:grin:   Millie, you never cease to crack me up!


----------

