# How long did you do R&D, test, etc before selling?



## NMAriel (Dec 30, 2008)

I was wondering how long you guys did R&D, tested, refined formulas, etc. before you starting selling your soap?  When do you know when you moved from beginner > to intermediate > to advance > to seller?

Thanks.


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## Deda (Dec 30, 2008)

6 years.  Solid working at it everyday. 

Including interning/working at a cosmetics company and lots of schooling.


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## Lindy (Dec 30, 2008)

I think for everyone it's a personal choice.  You do need to make lots of batches and have other people test them for you (well you need to test them too) and you need to be able to get consistant results every time.  They won't look the same every time but there will be a consistancy to it.

Not much help I know, but it really is individual - there are soapers here that make the most amazing soaps and have done for years, but they don't feel ready to take that big step into business yet.

Cheers
Linda


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## NMAriel (Dec 30, 2008)

Deda that's alot of work.  Where did you get the schooling?

Lyndy I see your point.  

Thanks for the replies.


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## Deda (Dec 30, 2008)

NMAriel said:
			
		

> Deda that's alot of work.  Where did you get the schooling?


School was Tia Sophia in MD and Clayton online.  I was hell bent on becoming a Naturopath or a Homeopath, I quickly abandoned both in favor of soapmaking.

Tons of information was gleaned over the shoulders of the nice folks at EMS Labs, Cosmetic Specialty Labs and Pangea.  Of course, I learned alot at work, but trial and error were my best teachers. Nothing beats hands on/in.

I've run a successful business before and in my past life I was a computer engineer for a major bank.  Soaping is way more detailed.


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## Lindy (Dec 30, 2008)

Yeah I had a successful business several years ago and am looking forward to being self-reliant again especially creating something that is  beautiful and nurturing.


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## NMAriel (Dec 30, 2008)

Lyndy, exactly.  Plus something that is ALL natural.  Plus something that gives you an outlet for creativity, instead of being in an office all day pushing paper.  Well from reading your threads, it seems that you are on your way.  Sold out of dog bars.....way to go.. :wink:


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## Tabitha (Dec 30, 2008)

_I am moving these replies over from the duplicate thread. That way it can all be in one place. I will deleteing the other thread as well to prevent confusion. It looks like you are getting some good replies here. _

NMAriel Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:36 pm    Post subject: How do you know when you moved up a level? 

I'm posting here to (original post in Business), but wasn't sure if it should be here instead. Sorry for the duplication. 

I was wondering how long you guys did R&D, tested, refined formulas, etc. before you starting selling your soap? When do you know when you moved from beginner > to intermediate > to advance > to seller? 

Thanks 
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starduster Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:19 pm    Post subject: You will know. 

You will know. You will just look at your batch of soaps and go ,I just need to share this. Money changing hands in the process will be a natural part of the process. 

Yes you will have the scientific and legal issues sorted , thats just common sense. Usually you can google up your county / states legal requirements. 

Now as for the question of what stage you are up to. 
You need to have all the practical home work preparations done because sweety ,once you are out on the stage of soap vending and the curtains have gone up you need to be able to relax and back up your promises. 
This is not a scary note of caution. I do find myself, that having prepared for Every possible known eventuality and having run a few possible scenarios of successful trading or what ever in my head I can then let go and have fun. 

Use your gut feeling . Does it tell you yes? Even if your knees are doing a frantic tattoo. 

Then out you go and do something totally outrageous in your presentation. 

Make sure your audience never forgets you .You only live once. 
Then go back home ,relax , bask in your success no matter how small. Anilise how it went. 

Give a small gift of your soap to someone appreciative( tithing). 
Now for a short while you can have a normal life. Talk to hubby, feed the kids , pat the dogs head. 

Then it's back again to imagineering your next trip out. 
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NMAriel Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:05 pm    Post subject:  

Thanks Starduster. I could picture you're steps in my head. Very good imagery.
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Mandolyn Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 

It's not really about what level you're at. It's about what your soap is like. You can do 100 batches in 6 months & decide you're ready to sell. So during month 7, you make soap & in month 8 you sell, then in month 9- horrors!!! those first test batches have developed DOS, or the scent has completely faded to nothing, but oh ****!!!, you've already started selling soap made with that very recipe & that very scent! What will your customers think about your soap? What if the color fades, but you don't know that, because you haven't had any soap around long enough to know? Do you really want your customers to be the ones making those discoveries about your soap? 

I bought a bar of my competitor's soap. At month 4, it had lost all it's scent & was beginning to smell rancid. Do they even know that happens? If they don't, they should! If they know & still are selling, for shame!!! 

Unless you've waited the 12 months, you really don't know what your soap will be like, & you're taking a huge risk selling. So, it's not just about R&D, it's about knowing what your soap will be like many months down the road. Is it still the knock-you-sideways-wonderful bar at 12 months that it was at one month, is it ok at 12 months at least, or is it just plain a disaster? You need to know that before you start selling. 

I have a base recipe that I use & sell, but I still am doing R&D & hope I always will, because that's how you develop your product line & continue to improve your products. I continue to test new recipes & expand on what I know. I'm starting to do goats milk soap now, so I'll add that in my best selling scent this year to see how people take to it. 

From all the testing I've done, I still sell soap made from only one recipe, except my shaving soap which is a tad different. I just haven't found another that yields the quality of soap I get with that recipe. There are no suprises with it. I know how every scent is going to behave with that recipe, what every colorant is going to look like, what every additive is going to do to it & I know the soap isn't going to develop any surprises over time, except get milder. 

So, really, to me it's all about the quality of your soap & the time involved in just waiting to see what it's going to be like every month down the road to the 12 month mark. 

It's up to every soapmaker to decide what quality level they want to achieve, but I have to say this, the soap you sell, is a representation of handmade soap that ultimately reflects on us all. 

When I say I'm a soapmaker, I want to be proud of that, but I can only feel pride if I'm selling a quality soap.


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## NMAriel (Dec 30, 2008)

Ok, thanks Tabitha.  I actually thought I broke the forum, cuz I couldn't open up the other one.  scared me, then my brain kicked in and figured out what someone did...haha.


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## starduster (Dec 31, 2008)

*Really trully*



			
				Deda said:
			
		

> NMAriel said:
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I just love that comment about it being way more detailed to soap. Are you jossing us or is that for real?
 :wink:


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## topcat (Dec 31, 2008)

Thanks for starting this thread NMAriel - you are getting a host of information!



> So, really, to me it's all about the quality of your soap & the time involved in just waiting to see what it's going to be like every month down the road to the 12 month mark.



Excellent post mandolyn.....I have been selling my MP soap with a 'best before' date on it.  Do you think doing something like this with CP is a good idea?  For example, I mean if you have a soap batch which you are happy with and it has held up well over 6 months, would you recommend that to sell a batch made the same way with a 'best before (6 month date expiry)' on the label sufficient in that case?  The soap in question may hold up fine for longer of course, yet you are covering yourself and encouraging the purchaser to use the soap before any possible issues crop up.  You can always then amend the use by date as your original soap ages.  What do you think?  

Tanya


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## NMAriel (Dec 31, 2008)

Thanks Topcat.

To answer Madolyn.  I've made (now there all used up) of 2 yr old soap that I think was the best soap I've ever had.  It was my unscented gm and shea butter soap, and my gm chocolate/espresso soap.  These two were my first recipes that I created, and I there a staple in my house.  So I think these would qualify for your answer.  I've recently been trying other recipes so they probably would not qualify.....need more feedback from my testers and of course I use everything I make.


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## digit (Dec 31, 2008)

Mandolyn said:
			
		

> There are no suprises with it. I know how every scent is going to behave with that recipe, what every colorant is going to look like, what every additive is going to do to it & I know the soap isn't going to develop any surprises over time, except get milder.


What fun is that?? Where is your sense of adventure? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I am just teasing ya.......bet my funky soap stack is higher than yours!!! Neener.....neener.....

Seriously NMAriel, I have been researching and testing for about 1 1/2 years now. Getting ready to start selling a few things, but have many products still in R&D stage. Working on obtaining all the legal stuff right now. I really think that the timing is as individual as the soapmakers. 

Suggestion: make a list of all the things you feel are important prior to selling. Start working on them, checking them off and adding more along the way. Seeing your development makes the time less relevant. By that, I mean you see how long/far you have come, and if it took 1....2.....3 years, you are comfortable with it and your product. 

I have seen most all the seasoned soapmakers (years & years of experience) say they are always tweaking and trying new things. I can not imagine myself ever being to the point that I would think I have the very best possible and not be trying new things. Good luck!!

Digit


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## mandolyn (Dec 31, 2008)

digit said:
			
		

> Mandolyn said:
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My stack is still growing :shock:


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## mandolyn (Dec 31, 2008)

topcat said:
			
		

> Thanks for starting this thread NMAriel - you are getting a host of information!
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Sure, you can put the "best before" date, but that's not necessary if you just wait out the extra time & know your soap will make it through the long haul.  

When my competitor's customers realize they've been using soap that goes rancid in 4 months, & mine is still good at 12 months, whose are they going to purchase?


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## Tabitha (Dec 31, 2008)

> What fun is that?? Where is your sense of adventure?


Right, like at my first craft show when I thought I woudl be a rebel & put my sugar scrubs in bottles rather thah jars & I had not tested them over looooooooooooooooooooong periods of time so I didn't know they would seperate & the oil would float to the top so when you tried to squeeze the scrub out the oil wouild all drip out & the sugar would forever be wedged in the bottom of the bottle unless you slit it open w/ an exacto blade to get it out   TEST, :?  TEST :wink: & RETEST!


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## Tabitha (Dec 31, 2008)

> Ok, thanks Tabitha. I actually thought I broke the forum


 No worries! I think I am the only one who has ever managed to _break _the forum :wink: .


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## Lindy (Dec 31, 2008)

Okay - I just have to ask this question.....why would soap go rancid?  Is it caused by ingredients other than the oil?


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## mandolyn (Jan 1, 2009)

Lindy said:
			
		

> Okay - I just have to ask this question.....why would soap go rancid?  Is it caused by ingredients other than the oil?



Oils can go rancid, so when you super fat, those free-floating oils can, potentially go  rancid. There are ways to avoid that happening. One is to not super fat too high, & the other is to use an antioxidant in your oils when you first get them. As an added measure, I use an antioxidant in every soap batch, which is probably over-kill, but since I started putting it into my oils & each batch, I haven't had soap go rancid.


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## starduster (Jan 1, 2009)

*Good idea*

  Oils can go rancid, so when you super fat, those free-floating oils can, potentially go  rancid. There are ways to avoid that happening. One is to not super fat too high, & the other is to use an antioxidant in your oils when you first get them. Quote.

So Mandolyn what is your Anti Oxident please ?


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