# For my dog?



## Christianbeauty (Nov 19, 2009)

Hi all,

I was wondering if there is a safe body butter formula to make for my dog's itchy skin?

I would just wonder if I can jus glide it through his fur to his skin to help with the itchiness and not pay for expensive allergy medicine

Any formulas to make a dog wash that will actually help with his itch? I've tried a lot on the market and none truly works.

He just has some dry skin and I want to do the homeopathic method.


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## SilverMaple (Nov 19, 2009)

I think a body butter on a dog would be a mess.... and anytime I have any sort of butter on my hands, the dogs try to lick it off!  I can just see a dog contorting himself licking frantically....  I make a 'paw balm' using shea and beeswax, but I can't imagine applying something like that to the animal's skin aside from the feet.

Have you looked into why his skin is dry?  The vast majority of dogs with dry skin are suffering from allergies, thyroid problems, or nutrient deficiencies.  If it's allergies, find out what they're of.  Corn, wheat, chicken, beef, and lamb can be allergens to dogs, as can environmental things like grass, carpet cleaners, etc.  Once you know what the dog is allergic to, you can work on avoiding the triggers instead of just masking the symptoms.  I used to work at a vet clinic and have trained/shown dogs for years.  You'd be amazed at the number of pets that owners are buying expensive creams, lotions, shampoos, and medications for when a simple food change would solve the problem.

Going to a better food or adding Omega Fatty Acids or Zinc may do the trick if there's nothing going on health-wise, but visit with your vet to be sure.  Hugs to your itchy dog!


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## Christianbeauty (Nov 19, 2009)

SilverMaple said:
			
		

> I think a body butter on a dog would be a mess.... and anytime I have any sort of butter on my hands, the dogs try to lick it off!  I can just see a dog contorting himself licking frantically....  I make a 'paw balm' using shea and beeswax, but I can't imagine applying something like that to the animal's skin aside from the feet.
> 
> Have you looked into why his skin is dry?  The vast majority of dogs with dry skin are suffering from allergies, thyroid problems, or nutrient deficiencies.  If it's allergies, find out what they're of.  Corn, wheat, chicken, beef, and lamb can be allergens to dogs, as can environmental things like grass, carpet cleaners, etc.  Once you know what the dog is allergic to, you can work on avoiding the triggers instead of just masking the symptoms.  I used to work at a vet clinic and have trained/shown dogs for years.  You'd be amazed at the number of pets that owners are buying expensive creams, lotions, shampoos, and medications for when a simple food change would solve the problem.
> 
> Going to a better food or adding Omega Fatty Acids or Zinc may do the trick if there's nothing going on health-wise, but visit with your vet to be sure.  Hugs to your itchy dog!




I did go to the vet and they gave him an anti-histamine spray on leave in conditioner that tends to help with his dry skin.   They told me that doing allergy tests would cost me over $400!
I eliminate him from corn, wheat, soy, parabens in his products, by products....I mean i should dry a food higher in omega...I guess I should go ahead and get his allergy tests done---it would be worth it for his health eh?

He gets ear infections often..his ears are very senstivive. His paws itch often with the allergy to wet grass...his body may be the same.


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## dagmar88 (Nov 19, 2009)

How old is your dog, christian? If he's a younger dog I could give you info about feeding your dog raw meat if you'd like...
Our girl is doing amazing with the food she gets now   
I would do the same as you; eliminate products (cut out processed stuff, corn, wheat and mais byproducts, sugar & salt, etc. any of these are likely causing his reaction. If none of that works you could still do the test.

It would also be useful to know the dog food producers do not have to list all of their ingrediënt'; they only list what they add to the ready made paste delivered by other companies.


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## SilverMaple (Nov 19, 2009)

Testing for allergies and then eliminating those allergens will cost you far less in the long run than prescription creams and repeated ear infections.   Find out what he's allergic to, and go from there.  

And yes, many people with allergic dogs have seen drastic improvement on a raw diet (as long as the dog isn't allergic to the protein sources you are using!)  Additionally, many dogs are extremely allergic to commercial chicken, but are not bothered by organic, so that may be worth looking into as well.


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## dagmar88 (Nov 19, 2009)

SilverMaple said:
			
		

> And yes, many people with allergic dogs have seen drastic improvement on a raw diet (as long as the dog isn't allergic to the protein sources you are using!)



That's why you start with one animal; most prefer chicken or other poultry aside from maybe turkey and build up to a couple of species by adding a new animal every 2 to 4 weeks.

oooh, boy, don't get me started on this subject, cause soon you'll know more than you ever wanted


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## KSL (Nov 19, 2009)

dagmar88 said:
			
		

> How old is your dog, christian? If he's a younger dog I could give you info about feeding your dog raw meat if you'd like...
> Our girl is doing amazing with the food she gets now
> I would do the same as you; eliminate products (cut out processed stuff, corn, wheat and mais byproducts, sugar & salt, etc. any of these are likely causing his reaction. If none of that works you could still do the test.
> 
> It would also be useful to know the dog food producers do not have to list all of their ingrediënt'; they only list what they add to the ready made paste delivered by other companies.



I was JUST talking to a friend of mine yesterday about this.
he adopted his pet 1 year and half ago, he had no fur, and terrible skin.  The vet at the shelter was a holistic vet and suggested the Raw Food diet and a year and half later, doggie is the picture of health and lots of fur.

I would suggest seeing a holistic vet.

My dog eats anything and eveything and has beautiful fur.  But I'm still considering switching to a holistic vet.  Might not mean raw diet, but more natural foods, or foods I can make him myself.


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## dagmar88 (Nov 19, 2009)

We switched foods. Charlie had been fed on cheap o kibble with loads of additives. she was so so skinny, smelled horrible, red dye colored poop flew out and she was scabby and shedded a lot.
First 2 weeks she only ate chicken legs (and I can assure you, once you've seen how much your doggy enjoys those and is satisfied and eating calmly, you'll feel it is just how nature intended it to be). Terrible diarrhoea stopped almost immediatly.

3 months later and now she eats anything from rabbit to zebra to salmon  
Now that she stopped growing that fast she eats half a kilo a day instead of a whole one.
You can not imagine how often people compliment us with how good Charlie looks. She doesn't even smell like dog, her coat is so shiny and she's just happy & healthy.
And I've never in my life seen a 6 month old puppy with so much muscles  8) 

Have to say we're not real strict; we bought her a freezer and filled it with about every type of meat possible so she'll get all she need. we just grab anything she hasn't had in a while. No schedule or anything. She does get a package of all types of organ meat weekly. Plus some yoghurt, garlic and leftover veggies.


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## KSL (Nov 19, 2009)

That's awsome!

Do you get your raw at a pet shop or specialty place?  I mean, obviously the zebra is not coming from your grocery store.. lol

Salmon eh?  Geez.. i don't even get salmon that often... but if I can justify it for the puppy.. then I can get a little extra for me.. hee hee...

Can I put my hand up for that raw info?  PM me?
If you have the time... if not that's cool too.


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## Deda (Nov 19, 2009)

Dagmar, I have a stinky, shedding, 11-year-old, 120lb, Chesapeake Bay retriever.  

I'm interested in switching his diet away from dog food to real food.  Do you cook the meat?  I might handle that, but raw is a great big gag.


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## dagmar88 (Nov 19, 2009)

give me a day to translate my info from Dutch to English. I'll pm you tomorrow.
I get it from a wholesale business specialised in raw food for dogs & cats. I pay 4 bugs for 2 pounds of zebra steak and a dollar for a very fleshy chicken carcass of 2 pounds. Aside from good, is is much cheaper than most dry foods. 
 Charlie gets the salmon heads which are a real good (and according to her delicious) source of omega.


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## dagmar88 (Nov 19, 2009)

@ Deda 8) you get used to that real quick.
If you'd want to switch to a more natural diet I'd first see the vet and let all of his organs be checked out closely.
Raw food does require the body to do some work and therefore some older dogs have a risk of organ failure.
I'd start with some raw chicken breast and after that some minced meat (never pork!) and try som different stuff from there.
I used to be a vegetarian for many years and the first time I was chopping up slippery organs and one day chicks i was like 'yuck eeeeeeew, gross!!!"  

Cooking it means you destroy all of the vital vitamins in the meat.
Have you ever seen a wolf with a cooking pot on his back walking through the forest?   
Your dog's digestion system and teeth haven't changed a bit from there...


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## IanT (Nov 19, 2009)

what about for cats!??!! I am SOOOOOO interested in this ...

lol fill me up dag 


Also... I used to use Udder balm on my dogs paws and nose... (the stuff they use for cows with swolen udders...)  worked like a charm but smells like pooooo


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## TessC (Nov 19, 2009)

Info on raw diet for cats:  

http://www.rawfed.com/myths/cats.html

and  

http://www.catinfo.org/#Home-Prepared_Diets


One of my friends went all raw with her newly adopted cat but he didn't do well on it, so she now has him on a high quality canned food supplemented with whole prey items and other raw godies like rabbit haunches. She goes to Petco and buys the frozen feeder rats or mice and thaws them for him, that works out well for her. Her vet thinks the taurine thing was the problem when she was doing all raw, so she might work on getting him back on all raw again later. 

I've looked into raw for both our dog and our two cats but have stuck with having them all on high quality prepared foods instead, at least for now. The pup is on EVO and does very well, the cats are on Orijen and the difference in them since switching them off of the cheap food is nothing short of amazing. I'd love to get them eating a good canned food but neither will touch canned, go figure. =/

ETA: One thing to be aware of, depending on your vet they might give you crap about going with a non-conventional diet. Our former vet was really pushy about trying to get us to switch from EVO to Science Diet, ugh. Vets and veterinary nutritionists are different fields, and I got the blessings of the latter to ignore the diet advice of the former in this case.


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## dagmar88 (Nov 20, 2009)

vets are (poorly) educated on the subject by the larger dogfood companies and over here a lot of them make big bugs selling that themselves. So not that odd they give strange advises...
I'll post my info today for everyone.


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## krissy (Nov 20, 2009)

i too am interested in this raw diet for dogs. my pug is only 2 so he shouldn't be to old to make the crossover right?


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## dagmar88 (Nov 20, 2009)

:? i'll post it tomorrow; found out today 2 out of our 5 pets have flees so I have been franticaly cleaning the house, doing laundry, spraying flee killer, combing all pets, using drops on all kitties and bathing Charlie...
I was brushing one of our cats when I noticed he had some little black dots in between the dead fur... So I went totally crazy and found 1 flee. Charlie must have brought them in.
Glad I cought it very early on   Now i'm having 'mental itches'.


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## krissy (Nov 21, 2009)

i looked into this more online and am going to do it. i have a pug who is about 14lbs. i know i am supposed to feed about 1/2 a lb daily right? but does that include the weight of the bones or what? i understand with chicken but i don't with other meats. can you clarify a bit for me?


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## dagmar88 (Nov 21, 2009)

I'll be posting in an hour or so  :wink: 
Yes, it is perfectly fine for your 2 year old pug to feed him raw. He requires about 2% of his bodyweight in food and if he's very active 3%.
This does include the weight of the bone; but in my opinion you don't have to be real strict.   We don't weigh a thing; we just look at Charlie's appetite and body. You'll see it soon enough when he has just that bit too much or too little.


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## krissy (Nov 21, 2009)

thanks so much! i am off to the store to buy some chicken for starters. i was going to buy some livers etc but wondered if that was too much? can they eat the guts stuff?


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## dagmar88 (Nov 21, 2009)

Done!
http://soapmakingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15523

You can chop up the liver and put in those icecube trays and freeze them. Dog's can only eat small bit of it at once as it is an extreme laxative.

I'd start with just the chicken breast for the first time and after a couple of days introduce chicken legs. After a week or 2 when he is digesting everything perfectly and his stomach has settled you can try more diverse things.


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## krissy (Nov 21, 2009)

i just read through it. very good info, thanks! i bought some chicken quarters and some gizzards and a beef liver. i was planning on maybe 1 time a week giving 4 oz of the liver and gizzards in the evening instead of a chicken piece. does that sound right to you?

ETA:
i just gave Guiseppe a chicken leg and a few pieces of gizzard and a smidgen of liver. he didn't care for the liver as much as the gizzards but LOVED the chicken leg. he ate the entire thing in about 20-30 mins. the only thing that surprised me is that he kept trying to carry everything off to another room. i just moved his crate to the kitchen and let him take it in there so he wouldn't track anything nasty through the house.
the funniest thing was after he finished he went and got his "baby" a long skinny squeaky and started chewing and shaking the heck out of it as if he were trying to get to the meat! it was so cute!!


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## dagmar88 (Nov 21, 2009)

I'm really not good at converting to lbs and oz. Let's say a pug is 10 kg on average. He would eat about 200 grams of meat daily. Thats 1400 weekly. Liver is 2,5% of the diet, so that would make 30 grams a week. That would be around 1 oz per week. Giving more will result in... a lot of yucky poop!
Also, I wouldn't give the gazzard more than twice a week to start with. Really do not worry to much about the organs now and slowly introduce new things.
I'm so glad he likes the chicken leg! That's a real good start   Sounds like he did a good job; they really have to know how to handle the meat and bones. In a couple of weeks he'll fifish the leg in 5 minutes   

We have learned Charlie to eat everything on a doormat (turned upside down so she eats on the sturdy plastic). Comes in real handy.


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## krissy (Nov 21, 2009)

i will look for mat, thanks for the suggestion.
i converted the 200 grams to oz and it comes to 6.7 oz.  that isn't very much. it is like 1 chicken leg a day. i feed Guiseppe 2 times a day. half a cup of kibble in the morning and half a cup in the evening. he is not overweight by any means but with the raw diet will that one leg last him all day without hunger? i don't want him to starve...


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## dubnica (Nov 24, 2010)

I think I will try this.  I did not know that raw pork is not good for dogs.  No wander that they had diarrhea when I gave them pork rib the other day.  I will start with raw chicken now. 
Thank you for the post gadmar.


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## BakingNana (Nov 24, 2010)

For those of you who wish to use a very basic diet but aren't comfortable with raw, there is a food on the market that is sold fresh in a deli case that contains only meat, rice, peas, carrots, and all the necessary vitamins and minerals dogs need.  No byproducts on the meat.  Comes in chicken, beef, and turkey.  (They make cat food, too.)  Switching to this food solved all our chi's allergies.  Not sure if I'm comfortable posting the brand, although I don't have an interest in the company!  (Wish I did, tho!).  PM me if you want more info or the mods can let me know if it's OK to post brand.


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