# Is this French clay ok for shaving recipe?



## scott312 (Jan 31, 2016)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/French-Gree...054724?hash=item20fe660e84:g:tRQAAOSwPcVVt9zt


I have never ordered or used any clay before guys.
Thanks.:neutral:


----------



## DeeAnna (Jan 31, 2016)

Okay, Scott ... maybe you want to back up a little and explain why you want to make a shave soap with clay in it? If you have a recipe you're thinking about, might also want to post that too.

Reason why I say this is that clay is a shave soap ingredient with a lot of controversy surrounding its use.  Many recipes created by non wet shavers are basically bath soap recipes with added clay ... and that's not a real shave soap. I'm not a shaver dude, and even I can tell you that! Most of the shaver dudes who make their own soap and post here on SMF don't use clay.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jan 31, 2016)

Clay was a boxer, not a shaving soap ingredient.


----------



## scott312 (Jan 31, 2016)

DeeAnna said:


> Okay, Scott ... maybe you want to back up a little and explain why you want to make a shave soap with clay in it? If you have a recipe you're thinking about, might also want to post that too.
> 
> Reason why I say this is that clay is a shave soap ingredient with a lot of controversy surrounding its use.  Many recipes created by non wet shavers are basically bath soap recipes with added clay ... and that's not a real shave soap. I'm not a shaver dude, and even I can tell you that! Most of the shaver dudes who make their own soap and post here on SMF don't use clay.


Bay Rum Shaving.

This recipe came with Soapmaker
Lard 47%
Coconut 25%
Palm 21.9%
Castor 5.6%
Fo 2%
Clay 1.2 %

I didn't really want to use clay, but if I needed to I was.
Thank you Anna


The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Clay was a boxer, not a shaving soap ingredient.



This recipe stings like a bee and floats like a butterfly.


----------



## kchaystack (Jan 31, 2016)

scott312 said:


> This recipe stings like a bee and floats like a butterfly.




It is also a normal soap recipe with clay added.  And not a very good one at that.

For shaving soap see these threads:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=34264&highlight=shaving+soap

or 

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=53981


----------



## DeeAnna (Jan 31, 2016)

Your recipe has this for fatty acids:
Lauric	12%
Myristic	5%
Palmitic	25%
Stearic	8%
Oleic	33%
Ricinoleic	5%
Linoleic	6%
Linolenic	0%

It's basically a bath soap with added clay. It's not going to be playing with the big dogs in the shave soap world. The palmitic + stearic acid % needs to be much higher to really form the dense cushiony lather that you really need in a shave soap. 

Here are two very helpful threads you may want to study:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=34264
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=513231


----------



## IrishLass (Jan 31, 2016)

Besides Songwind's thread and LBussy's thread linked to above, here is another one of my favorite (long) shave soap threads: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=47002&highlight=NaOH 

I agree with Kchaystack and DeeAnna that the recipe you posted is basically a regular bar soap recipe with clay added. You can definitely do much better than that, for sure.  

RE: Clay. Oh-boy (treading carefully  ) ....Clay is a very controversial subject- but just to be fair, some guys actually do like clay in their soap (just ask our Lindy who is very successful selling her shave soap with clay in it to some of the clay-loving guys over at Badger and Blade). Anyway, having said that, I am a good example that one can indeed formulate a great shave soap without the use of clay. I was skeptical at first, but I am skeptical no longer. For me, increasing my stearic was the magic bullet.

IrishLass


----------



## Pepsi Girl (Jan 31, 2016)

Just to add to what IrishLass said:
I do not make "shave soap" however I do make soap for my husband to shave with.  He is  strictly a shave in the shower guy and will not use any soap that does not have clay in it.  In fact his favorite is French Green Clay! In his option it's the only way to shave!


----------



## scott312 (Feb 1, 2016)

kchaystack said:


> It is also a normal soap recipe with clay added.  And not a very good one at that.




Thank you kchaystack I will check those out!
Thank you for the info.
Thank you Anna


IrishLass said:


> Besides Songwind's thread and LBussy's thread linked to above, here is another one of my favorite (long) shave soap threads: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=47002&highlight=NaOH
> 
> 
> IrishLass



Thank you *IrishLass* you have given me lots to ponder..


Pepsi Girl said:


> Just to add to what IrishLass said:
> I do not make "shave soap" however I do make soap for my husband to shave with.  He is  strictly a shave in the shower guy and will not use any soap that does not have clay in it.  In fact his favorite is French Green Clay! In his option it's the only way to shave!




Coca Cola Cowboy thanks Pepsi Girl!

I do want to try the clay sometime.


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Feb 1, 2016)

IMO, clay is one of those things that is held in low esteem because it was misused.  As everyone says, bath soap + clay does not a shaving soap make.  I think that so many wet shavers were burned by that misrepresentation that clay's reputation became forever soiled. (hehe)

In spite of that, adding a bit of clay or activated charcoal _to a properly formulated shaving soap_ can be a nice addition.


----------



## Obsidian (Feb 1, 2016)

BrewerGeorge said:


> IMO, clay is one of those things that is held in low esteem because it was misused.  As everyone says, bath soap + clay does not a shaving soap make.  I think that so many wet shavers were burned by that misrepresentation that clay's reputation became forever soiled. (hehe)
> 
> In spite of that, adding a bit of clay or activated charcoal _to a properly formulated shaving soap_ can be a nice addition.



Actually, many wet shaves dislike clay based on the idea that it could dull blades. Kind of a big deal when purchasing double edged blades or using  straight razor.
A properly formulated shave soap absolutely does not need clay. If a person is using disposables and normally uses bar soap for shaving, then yes, go ahead and use some caly. Those kind of razors dull fast anyways.


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Feb 1, 2016)

Obsidian said:


> Actually, many wet shaves dislike clay based on the idea that it could dull blades. Kind of a big deal when purchasing double edged blades or using  straight razor.
> A properly formulated shave soap absolutely does not need clay. If a person is using disposables and normally uses bar soap for shaving, then yes, go ahead and use some caly. Those kind of razors dull fast anyways.


I'm not disputing that some people think that, but they're empirically wrong.  Scientifically, it's nonsensical.  Bentonite clay is made of montmorillonite which runs no higher than a 2 on the Mohs hardness scale - about as hard as a fingernail.  Kaolin clay is primarily kaolinite which comes in around 2.5 Mohs.  Whereas mild steel runs at least a 4 and a good razor should run 5.5-6ish.  These clays no more dull good steel than do your fingernails scratch a diamond ring.  The only thing that dulls razors is rust.

Besides, Astras are running a dime a piece, per hundred, on Amazon right now, and Feathers are still less than a quarter.  Even overpriced Merkur can be had for about 75¢ each.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 2, 2016)

But then use of a blade dulls it, otherwise one would never need to use a new blade or strop a straight razor. 

While steel itself is strong, the edge of my straight razor is extremely fine, so fine that it warps during use which is one of the reasons for honing after a shave as well as before


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Feb 2, 2016)

The very tip of an edge can get bent over or warped, true.  That's why we steel kitchen knives and strop razors - to straighten and align this edge.  But that bending doesn't remove material; it's not the abrasion process that people are fearing when avoiding clays in shaving soap.  That edge deformation happens when things like beard hairs or the skin resist being cut, and if anything a few slippery minerals in the slurry improves that situation by keeping the skin out of the blade.

Truly, the #1 dulling factor for razors, by far, is rust.  High carbon steel rusts easily, and a large part of the difference between a $1 Bic disposable and a $6 Gillette is the blade coatings that discourage rust.  Nobody with a brain lets a straight razor stay wet, but for cartridge or DE blades, drying with a hair dryer will double or triple comfortable life by discouraging rust, and blow drying then storing in oil can make a blade last months.  (I used to use mineral oil for this, but olive is common.  I'd probably use frac. coconut now if I cared to do it again.)


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 2, 2016)

Indeed. But as clay is not needed and it would adversely impact users of straight razors, it is better to use the glycerin instead.


----------

