# Disappointed in my soap (Experimenting with color; struggling with discoloration)



## JanelleTrebuna (Jan 24, 2019)

I made my usual soap recipe and used BB Blooms and Berries fo and purple and green micas.
This is my 2nd time working with micas, and my first with this particular fo. This was my first attempt at an in the pot swirl.
For my first mica soaping I mixed the micas with a little almond oil before adding them to my soap; this time I dumped them straight in.  I'm wondering if that is what caused what look to be flecks in my soap. Maybe it wasn't fully incorporated? I noticed vanillin listed on the fo. I added it to the purple, thinking that it wouldn't affect it that much, maybe just deepening the color; versus adding it to the green or the base soap.
This looked pretty when I poured it, but after cutting, its ashy and the purple went dark and ugly.  The green softened a bit in color, but stayed relatively bright. I'm super disappointed in the purple.  
And where the heck did that bright yellow come from?
So... I ordered some titanium dioxide, do you think adding it to the base and making it white would help future batches of this soap?  Where do you think the bright yellow came from? Is the only hope to purchase the vanillin inhibiting stuff? I hate to buy one more thing, when I only soap for our family's use.  But darn it, my soap smells great and I want it to be pretty too.  lol 

Any helpful hints you all can offer are appreciated.

Janelle


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## Dawni (Jan 24, 2019)

Yknow what? I actually think that's pretty awesome. I know I told you that somewhere else before you posted cut pics but to me the inside is very cool... Reminds me of the Joker from Batman hehehe

I know it wasn't what you were going for but if it smells nice and feels nice.... And to me, it looks nice.. That's a lot better than a lot of soaps some of us come up with. Or should I just point fingers at myself? Hahaha

I haven't used micas but maybe you didn't blend it well enough? I've seen videos where people dump them into the batter no problem. Also, maybe the yellow is collateral damage from the vanillin?

Someone with more experience will come along n give you better answers, and for sure also tell you it's a good looking soap. You'll see


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## dixiedragon (Jan 24, 2019)

I actually think it looks good!

How much vanillin? It will usually say on the bottle?


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## JanelleTrebuna (Jan 24, 2019)

Dawni said:


> Yknow what? I actually think that's pretty awesome. I know I told you that somewhere else before you posted cut pics but to me the inside is very cool... Reminds me of the Joker from Batman hehehe
> 
> I know it wasn't what you were going for but if it smells nice and feels nice.... And to me, it looks nice.. That's a lot better than a lot of soaps some of us come up with. Or should I just point fingers at myself? Hahaha
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your sweet encouragement 

Janelle



dixiedragon said:


> I actually think it looks good!
> 
> How much vanillin? It will usually say on the bottle?



Thank you.  It probably did, but something leaked on it and smeared the writing on the bottle.
I'm looking on their website and it mentions it discolors to tan in cp.
A few people mention a yellow color as well.  So I guess that is where the yellow came from!

Janelle


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## dixiedragon (Jan 24, 2019)

Is it possible the yellow is from the FO not getting mixed in all the way?

Purple is a tricky color, because most things + purple = brown. Maybe next time have more white. So maybe 1/2 of the soap white (uncolored) and 1/4 purple and 1/4 green. So you have more of a barrier between the purple and green and less chance for them to mix.


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## JanelleTrebuna (Jan 24, 2019)

dixiedragon said:


> Is it possible the yellow is from the FO not getting mixed in all the way?
> 
> Purple is a tricky color, because most things + purple = brown. Maybe next time have more white. So maybe 1/2 of the soap white (uncolored) and 1/4 purple and 1/4 green. So you have more of a barrier between the purple and green and less chance for them to mix.


Thank you.  I will definitely try this.  And I'll use titanium dioxide to get a nice white base batter to begin with. 
The fo I whisked in (just to the purple), because I've had some issues with major acceleration when stick blending some of my fo's.

Thanks again for your suggestions 
Janelle


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## cmzaha (Jan 24, 2019)

As with some florals the fragrance turned the batter yellow, so I would work with it and use different colors next time. It is reported to turn the batter tan so yellows, greens, orange etc should work fine for colorants next time. You most likely will not get a real white batter since the fo turns it yellow. The yellow is going to turn tan I am guessing. 

What did you use for purple? As Dixiedragon mentioned, purple can be very tricky and many times will morph several times before settling on purple.


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## dixiedragon (Jan 24, 2019)

JanelleTrebuna said:


> Thank you.  I will definitely try this.  And I'll use titanium dioxide to get a nice white base batter to begin with.
> The fo I whisked in (just to the purple), because I've had some issues with major acceleration when stick blending some of my fo's.
> 
> Thanks again for your suggestions
> Janelle



If you mix the TD into your soap and then add your color, it will make your new color paler or sort of chalky looking. Mix the TD with the non-colored portion.

But it's very possible that your purple will rally and/or the yellow will fade.


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## BattleGnome (Jan 24, 2019)

I’ve used the same color/scent combo before with no issues. Did you double check you had CP safe micas, BB sells several types. I have also used this scent for a liquid product with pink lab color and it did discolor a lot after time caught up to it. I think all the soaps are gone so I can’t tell you how age has worked on them.

If the record matters I believe I used “queen’s purple” from BB and one of their green oxides for soap


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## JanelleTrebuna (Jan 24, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> As with some florals the fragrance turned the batter yellow, so I would work with it and use different colors next time. It is reported to turn the batter tan so yellows, greens, orange etc should work fine for colorants next time. You most likely will not get a real white batter since the fo turns it yellow. The yellow is going to turn tan I am guessing.
> 
> What did you use for purple? As Dixiedragon mentioned, purple can be very tricky and many times will morph several times before settling on purple.


I used purple mica.  They aren't labeled with color names, unfortunately.
Dh bought them off of Amazon for me for Christmas.
They behaved beautifully the first time I used them in red and green.
I can't remember the company name. They are all in unlabeled little plastic bags with a Ziploc closure.
There are a lot of gorgeous colors. 

Janelle



BattleGnome said:


> I’ve used the same color/scent combo before with no issues. Did you double check you had CP safe micas, BB sells several types. I have also used this scent for a liquid product with pink lab color and it did discolor a lot after time caught up to it. I think all the soaps are gone so I can’t tell you how age has worked on them.
> 
> If the record matters I believe I used “queen’s purple” from BB and one of their green oxides for soap



They were a gift from Dh for Christmas.  I had linked him to Nuture Soap and their micas, but he mostly shops on Amazon.
So he bought a couple of large sets from Amazon.  I'm certain he was trying to get me lots of different colors. (He spoils me).
I can't remember the Company name.  They came in a bath bomb making set.
Its possible, I guess, that some will perform well, and some may not.

Janelle


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## Misschief (Jan 24, 2019)

Some micas and colorants do not perform as expected in soap. I should know better and I still have it happen; recently, I made a Margarita soap. I added green colorant and it turned tan. I made what was supposed to be an Ice Queen soap, with a blue colorant... it turned a lovely amethyst colour. 

If you can't ascertain that they're CP safe, I wouldn't use them in CP soap (says she who does it anyway).


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## Donee' (Jan 24, 2019)

Just my two cents - are her colours strong enough?  Perhaps putting more colour in?  They look fine on the outside but faded on the inside.  I am a colour fanatic though and I rather overuse colour than underuse.


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## JanelleTrebuna (Jan 24, 2019)

Donee' said:


> Just my two cents - are her colours strong enough?  Perhaps putting more colour in?  They look fine on the outside but faded on the inside.  I am a colour fanatic though and I rather overuse colour than underuse.


I used 1 tsp. each of the micas.
My loaf mold is pretty small.

Janelle


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## JasonPatton (Jan 24, 2019)

What is your recipe, oil/lye temps and do you know if your soap goes to gel phase(usually, never, idk)
I don't know the reaction of vanillin in soap but would assume temp/ph will caramelize or denature it(could be very wrong  )

Easy way to figure out if it's FO is do a batch without it, you can make a one bar batch if you have a small mold(can use yogurt containers etc for tests). 

I don't think TO will help if it's a FO problem(I'm still new though), seems like you'd just get whiter whites(or duller colors) AND yellow spots..

I hope you figure out how to make it like you want it  however like said above it has a cool joker theme, Mardi Gras or just a pretty swirly soap that probably smells great.


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## cmzaha (Jan 24, 2019)

Using purple in a base that goes yellow will just not work well. 
I would recommend reading the reviews about this fragrance on B&B's site, and read the description. The reviews mention the batter will go bright yellow and the product description states the soap will discolor to tan


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## shunt2011 (Jan 24, 2019)

Also, if they are not high PH stable they can and will morph.  Some just do not play well in CP.


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## JanelleTrebuna (Jan 24, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> Using purple in a base that goes yellow will just not work well.
> I would recommend reading the reviews about this fragrance on B&B's site, and read the description. The reviews mention the batter will go bright yellow and the product description states the soap will discolor to tan


**Must remember to read the fo reviews *before* soaping!** 
  



JasonPatton said:


> What is your recipe, oil/lye temps and do you know if your soap goes to gel phase(usually, never, idk)
> I don't know the reaction of vanillin in soap but would assume temp/ph will caramelize or denature it(could be very wrong  )
> 
> Easy way to figure out if it's FO is do a batch without it, you can make a one bar batch if you have a small mold(can use yogurt containers etc for tests).
> ...


I'm at work, so I don't have it in front of me, but I do wrap well for 24 hours so it gels, I soap between 115 and 125 F or so, and my recipe consists of lard, olive oil, coconut oil, shea butter & almond oil.  Equal parts olive/coconut; slightly more lard; equal (smallest parts) almond oil and shea butter.

Janelle


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## shunt2011 (Jan 24, 2019)

@Janelle Trebuna  try soaping a bit cooler.  I melt my lard, shea, coconut until it's almost melted then stir to finish.  Then I add my liquid oils.  My oils are just warm to the touch on the outside of my bucket.  My lye is room temp or just warm.    Vanilla in soap won't caramelize, it will darken your soap over time the shade depending on how much vanilla is in the FO.   Some of mine go from light beige to dark brown.


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## Chris_S (Jan 24, 2019)

I think it looks really nice too. One of my first ever soaps discoloured from using a vanilla fo but i was so new to soap making that i didnt realise till recently thats why the soap turned a brown colour as a base i actually really like how it turned out and is still one my fave soaps i was using different micas then and they really really stood out in that soap


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## JanelleTrebuna (Jan 24, 2019)

Chris_S said:


> I think it looks really nice too. One of my first ever soaps discoloured from using a vanilla fo but i was so new to soap making that i didnt realise till recently thats why the soap turned a brown colour as a base i actually really like how it turned out and is still one my fave soaps i was using different micas then and they really really stood out in that soap


Thank you 

Janelle


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## Marilyn Norgart (Jan 24, 2019)

JanelleTrebuna said:


> I made my usual soap recipe and used BB Blooms and Berries fo and purple and green micas.
> This is my 2nd time working with micas, and my first with this particular fo. This was my first attempt at an in the pot swirl.
> For my first mica soaping I mixed the micas with a little almond oil before adding them to my soap; this time I dumped them straight in.  I'm wondering if that is what caused what look to be flecks in my soap. Maybe it wasn't fully incorporated? I noticed vanillin listed on the fo. I added it to the purple, thinking that it wouldn't affect it that much, maybe just deepening the color; versus adding it to the green or the base soap.
> This looked pretty when I poured it, but after cutting, its ashy and the purple went dark and ugly.  The green softened a bit in color, but stayed relatively bright. I'm super disappointed in the purple.
> ...


I actually think it is very pretty


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## Zing (Jan 24, 2019)

Your soap is beautiful and your users and recipients will love it!  I do not use FO, just EOs.  I get great purple color with Brambleberry orchid mica and tons of compliments.  I also love TD but learned some things along the way to prevent glycerin rivers.  I have my lye to (lye plus water) ratio at 31.5% and soap at below 100 degrees F.  I just dump mica right into the batter and hand stir for 4 minutes and the stick blend briefly and have never had clumping.  I like to order Brambleberry sampler mica packs to try them out before committing to larger quantities.


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## amd (Jan 24, 2019)

JanelleTrebuna said:


> I noticed vanillin listed on the fo. I added it to the purple, thinking that it wouldn't affect it that much, maybe just deepening the color; versus adding it to the green or the base soap.


Is the bright yellow in the portion that had the FO added to it or the base soap? The way that I read you initial post is that you only added the FO to the purple colored soap. So if the base soap (I'm assuming with no colorant added) is yellow, it isn't from the FO, it must be from the soap itself. Or... well... I guess it could be from the FO if it is "bleeding" into the unfragranced soap portions. I see this sometimes with heavy vanillan FO's, the unfragranced portion will eventually turn brown too. I think I talked myself out of saying "I don't think it's the FO making the soap yellow." I'm going to leave this up, as someone may have some info to contribute that I may learn from


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## JanelleTrebuna (Jan 24, 2019)

Marilyn Norgart said:


> I actually think it is very pretty


Thank you 

Janelle



Zing said:


> Your soap is beautiful and your users and recipients will love it!  I do not use FO, just EOs.  I get great purple color with Brambleberry orchid mica and tons of compliments.  I also love TD but learned some things along the way to prevent glycerin rivers.  I have my lye to (lye plus water) ratio at 31.5% and soap at below 100 degrees F.  I just dump mica right into the batter and hand stir for 4 minutes and the stick blend briefly and have never had clumping.  I like to order Brambleberry sampler mica packs to try them out before committing to larger quantities.



Thank you   I haven't tried EO because it seems like they are more costly and I've heard their scents fade; I might have to branch out and try them though.  I've only been soaping for 2 years, so I have plenty to learn, and foresee lots of experimenting ahead.    I'll have to try soaping at a lower temp.  I've never tried room temp soaping, but that might be in my future. 

Janelle



amd said:


> Is the bright yellow in the portion that had the FO added to it or the base soap? The way that I read you initial post is that you only added the FO to the purple colored soap. So if the base soap (I'm assuming with no colorant added) is yellow, it isn't from the FO, it must be from the soap itself. Or... well... I guess it could be from the FO if it is "bleeding" into the unfragranced soap portions. I see this sometimes with heavy vanillan FO's, the unfragranced portion will eventually turn brown too. I think I talked myself out of saying "I don't think it's the FO making the soap yellow." I'm going to leave this up, as someone may have some info to contribute that I may learn from


I'm not sure.  My base soap is naturally more of a cream than a white. (attached pic is of one of my soaps with no colorant added and a fo that does not cause discoloration)   I poured the colors into the base (attempting an in the pot swirl) then poured into the loaf mold.  (I gave it one quick stir around and up through the middle before the pour)

Janelle


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## Donee' (Jan 24, 2019)

Sorry - but is this HP?
I am tired and have been fighting with sealers, moulds, e mails, cameras all day


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## cmzaha (Jan 24, 2019)

amd said:


> Is the bright yellow in the portion that had the FO added to it or the base soap? The way that I read you initial post is that you only added the FO to the purple colored soap. So if the base soap (I'm assuming with no colorant added) is yellow, it isn't from the FO, it must be from the soap itself. Or... well... I guess it could be from the FO if it is "bleeding" into the unfragranced soap portions. I see this sometimes with heavy vanillan FO's, the unfragranced portion will eventually turn brown too. I think I talked myself out of saying "I don't think it's the FO making the soap yellow." I'm going to leave this up, as someone may have some info to contribute that I may learn from


I actually have a few fo's that turn bright yellow when they are added to the batter. It will fade but playing with color in yellow batter can cause issues even though the yellow does not necessarily stay


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## Dawni (Jan 24, 2019)

@JanelleTrebuna told ya it looks great 



Donee' said:


> Sorry - but is this HP?
> I am tired and have been fighting with sealers, moulds, e mails, cameras all day


It's CP.. You should not have problems with FOs discoloring in HP coz you add the fragrance when it's already cooked 

I need someone to confirm if this holds true for ALL FOs including one's with vanillin?

Edited to correct major typo


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## KiwiMoose (Jan 24, 2019)

This soap is beautiful!  I love the colours, including the yellow.  But I get that you are disappointed - there's nothing more annoying than expecting one thing but getting another.


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## cerelife (Jan 25, 2019)

I like it! I looks like Mardi Gras!!


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## JanelleTrebuna (Jan 25, 2019)

Donee' said:


> Sorry - but is this HP?
> I am tired and have been fighting with sealers, moulds, e mails, cameras all day


No, its CP.  I haven't braved the world of HP yet  

Janelle



KiwiMoose said:


> This soap is beautiful!  I love the colours, including the yellow.  But I get that you are disappointed - there's nothing more annoying than expecting one thing but getting another.


Thank you. I'm encouraged by all the sweet comments.  

Janelle



cerelife said:


> I like it! I looks like Mardi Gras!!


Thank you 
I just need to shower with that and then grab a King Cake for bfast and I'll be set to celebrate!
lol!  I didn't originally notice the colors were those of Mardi Gras.

Janelle


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## Donee' (Jan 25, 2019)

JanelleTrebuna said:


> No, its CP.  I haven't braved the world of HP yet
> 
> Janelle


i dont think i will ever be brave enugh for HP


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## Marilyn Norgart (Jan 25, 2019)

Donee' said:


> i dont think i will ever be brave enugh for HP


its not hard--just try it once haha you might be hooked.  I watched a video on it and the lady made it look so easy that I took the plunge and really enjoy it


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## Dawni (Jan 25, 2019)

JanelleTrebuna said:


> No, its CP.  I haven't braved the world of HP yet
> 
> Janelle


I just realized that I meant CP but typed in HP uggh... I even explained that you won't get FO problems if you HP sheesh *smacks forehead*

I, on the other hand, am not brave enough to face the issues you guys are having with CP


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## JanelleTrebuna (Jan 25, 2019)

Dawni said:


> I just realized that I meant CP but typed in HP uggh... I even explained that you won't get FO problems if you HP sheesh *smacks forehead*
> 
> I, on the other hand, am not brave enough to face the issues you guys are having with CP


Lol. No worries.  I knew what you were talking about.  I was just clarifying


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## amd (Jan 25, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> I actually have a few fo's that turn bright yellow when they are added to the batter. It will fade but playing with color in yellow batter can cause issues even though the yellow does not necessarily stay



Yes, I have a few of those FO's too (BCN Lemongrass, I'm looking at you). My comment was more that if the OP didn't add the FO to the part of the batter that was yellow, then it wasn't the FO causing the discoloration. The way I read the OP's original post was that she only added FO to the purple portion and not the other portions. Would the FO in the purple portion bleed the yellow discoloration into the other colors after going into the mold?


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## JanelleTrebuna (Jan 28, 2019)

amd said:


> Yes, I have a few of those FO's too (BCN Lemongrass, I'm looking at you). My comment was more that if the OP didn't add the FO to the part of the batter that was yellow, then it wasn't the FO causing the discoloration. The way I read the OP's original post was that she only added FO to the purple portion and not the other portions. Would the FO in the purple portion bleed the yellow discoloration into the other colors after going into the mold?


You are correct.  I only added the fragrance oil to the Purple.  I did do an in the pot swirl; before pouring, would this have moved the fo around? Or are fo's stable, sticking only to the batch of soap to which they are added?

Janelle


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