# Any advice?



## sliginion (Jun 1, 2016)

I was thinking on making a batch of soap and I was thinking on a recipe I came up with
     16 oz lard
      12 oz goats milk
     8 oz coconut oil
      4 oz lye water _99% crystals
Any takers?


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## Seawolfe (Jun 1, 2016)

Your use of the words "lye water" doesn't make sense.  Do you mean 4 ounces of lye crystals dissolved in 12 oz of goats milk?

Go to http://soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp

Enter in the total amount of oils - 24 oz, leave the other values the same except for the oils list. Add in Lard - 16 oz, Coconut 76 deg -  8 Oz

Hit calculate, then hit view or print recipe.

You get something like the image below. Do you see where it calculates your amount of Lye for you? See how it tells you that you want 3.54 oz lye for a 5% superfat? You definately want at least a 5% superfat on that much coconut oil. Your recipe has too much lye. Where did you get that amount?

It doesn't make any sense to make a lye heavy, skin stripping soap like this with so much coconut oil, and then add goats milk. 

It also shows you how much liquid to use, in this case 9.12 Oz water (or could use goats milk, but milk really is tricky, try it and see). You have too much liquid in your recipe? Why?

You need to use a lye calculator like this on every single recipe you even think about using. Then pay attention to what the soap might be like by looking at the qualities on the left. Then go read the first few pages of the beginners forum to get an idea of what might make a good soap.


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## sliginion (Jun 1, 2016)

Now I know theres alot of people that im jus goofing around with lye but im really trying to get good at doing this... these soaps r only for trial and error...
    And the soap calculator doesnt work for me lol.
I use 9 oz of oil to 1 oz of lye. On my last batch of goats milk im on day two of curing and it turned out really well. No burning, irritation, or anything odd. Ive tested samples and all is well. Anyone got a well tested recipe working.with goats milk, coconut oil and lard?


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## shunt2011 (Jun 1, 2016)

sliginion said:


> Now I know theres alot of people that im jus goofing around with lye but im really trying to get good at doing this... these soaps r only for trial and error...
> And the soap calculator doesnt work for me lol.
> I use 9 oz of oil to 1 oz of lye. On my last batch of goats milk im on day two of curing and it turned out really well. No burning, irritation, or anything odd. Ive tested samples and all is well. Anyone got a well tested recipe working.with goats milk, coconut oil and lard?


 
What do you mean the lye calculator doesn't work for you?  You need to use one, it's not optional.  You could seriously injure yourself or someone else.  

TEG posted a perfectly good recipe for you in your other post.  

I don't mean to come off as rude but you are being seriously irresponsible if not doing the calculations correctly.  Nor is it likely you'll get a good batch of soap just doing it all willy nilly.

Folks here are more than helpful with the learing process, however, if you choose to be irresponsible then you may find help not so forthcoming.


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## lenarenee (Jun 1, 2016)

A good and safe soap rarely happens by accident. 

There is no "universal" recipe for making good soap because (such as 9 oz of oil + 1 oz lye= good soap). That's because each oil has it's own saponification rate - different oils take a different amount of lye to saponify it.  

It's also important to measure by weight, instead of measuring by volume. Do you have a good scale?

We can teach you how to use and understand a lye calculator. Also,  like shunt said, the recipe given to you by the Gentlemen is a great recipe.


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## sliginion (Jun 1, 2016)

ok ill figure out this calculator and make sure to get the right amount


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## Arimara (Jun 1, 2016)

9oz of oils and 1 oz of lye plus the fact you used goat's milk? I'd like to see that soap in about a year's time because unless otherwise noted, it's begging for DOS since to superfat is going to be at least 8%.

And what do you mean a lye calculator doesn't work for you? You make them work for you. Soapee.com is the EASIEST one to use. If you can't make that one work for your soaping, you're just being lazy and pretentious.


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## Susie (Jun 1, 2016)

OP-You need to either decide to use safe practices on making soap, or not post here expecting support for choosing to use unsafe practices.  We are simply not going to approve of your throwing lye and oils together willy-nilly and expecting soap.  Not to mention that new people are reading this who know no better.  That is rather frightening.  You need to choose to either use a lye calculator or stop expecting soap. 

(To everyone else) I think this person is a troll.  I think they are posting this simply to get the reaction they are receiving.  I really am worried that people who have never made soap are going to emulate this person.


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## sliginion (Jun 1, 2016)

Ok I got one question. Does the goats milk dilute the lye concentration?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jun 1, 2016)

If you are using a self-made lye solution, you won't get much help from many of us as we don't know about using it. We use bought lye in solid form and make a solution. 

When using a self-made lye, people would use a couple of methods which would not always result in good soap. I would google "making soap with ash water" or some such. That should help


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## sliginion (Jun 1, 2016)

And yet I am condemned for trying to learn from my mistakes. Like I said I will use this soap calculator. I wasnt looking for an argument or being condemned, it was only for conversation and learning but sense this seems to b more of a problem than a friendly conversation ill stop posting


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## lenarenee (Jun 1, 2016)

I hope to convince you to skip the goat's milk for the first couple of batches of soap you make. Why? Because milk replaces some of the water used for the lye solution, but goat's milk turns orange, can burn, and will definitely stink. People have a couple of different ways to deal with that, but it complicates the process a lot for someone who is a beginner. It would benefit you to make a couple of happy successful batches without it first.

By the way, if you don't have store bought lye, you can often get it at hardware stores.


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## Seawolfe (Jun 1, 2016)

Imagine if you said the same thing in a chemistry lab. There are some mistakes with lye you simply do not want to make.
You won't get any sympathy here for flinging stuff about with no research. 
You aren't a victim here, people tried to help and you ignored or discarded some very good advice - which is where the troll suspicion is starting. If you aren't ready to go do some research, and start listening to sense, soap making probably isn't a good idea for you.


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## shunt2011 (Jun 1, 2016)

sliginion said:


> And yet I am condemned for trying to learn from my mistakes. Like I said I will use this soap calculator. I wasnt looking for an argument or being condemned, it was only for conversation and learning but sense this seems to b more of a problem than a friendly conversation ill stop posting


 
It's not the problem of learning from your mistakes. It's the fact that you are not following others input.  Perhaps if you introduced yourself in the introduction forum and tell us a litter about yourself it may help.

We don't understand why you would do somthing so risky when there is absoutely no reason when there are tools to help you do it correctly.   I guess if you have the money to make a bunch of wasted and unsafe product continue on.

However, you won't get any help here as we all use the calculators so that we have successful batches of soap.  We don't want our hide ripped off by unsafe soap.

Also, please read the forum rules, leaving posts are not allowed.  

We welcome you to learn here but please do so safely.  As stated, we get many beginners here and we would hate to have someone read your posts thinking this is okay to do.  We certainly do not support it.

We welcome you to the forum and hope you take some of the advice given to you.

Safety is no laughing/joking matter.


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## Dorymae (Jun 1, 2016)

I am sure that since you are just beginning the soap making process you must feel you are being ganged up on. Please set that feeling aside for a moment. The reason people are getting upset is because of the danger a lye heavy soap can cause. It is important, excess lye in soap could potentially blind you if it got into your eyes and if there was enough lye remaining in the soap. 

The main thing you need to understand is that each oil you use needs a specific amount of lye to make it soap. That amount we refer to as SAP value. You can read about how you can use SAP value by hand figure the amount of lye needed here:  http://www.soap-making-resource.com/saponification-table.html.  This can get very confusing when using many oils, which is why we use a lye calculator.  ( or soap calculator) Yes it can be figured out by hand, and it is worth knowing how BUT it is always a good practice to run your recipe through a calculator to be sure you didn't make a mistake.  This will give you the amount of lye needed at what we call 0 (zero) super fat. 

Which brings us to the second thing you need to know. A soap with no superfat is almost always very drying to the skin because the soap strips all the oils from your skin. Superfatting is one way we make soap not drying. It is the process of adding additional oil to the soap which will not be turned to soap. The other way is called lye discounting, which is reducing the lye amount so that there will be oil left that will not turn to soap. Both of these values are expressed as a percentage, but they are not the same because reducing the lye by 5 percent or adding an extra 5 percent of oil will result in different amounts of oil being left over because the SAP values differ and you can not control which oil will not turn to soap in cold process soap making. 

It is very important to understand these things before you start. I hope this information will help you.


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## IrishLass (Jun 1, 2016)

Slinginion- you came onto our forum telling us you were failing at making soap, and asked if we could help you make good soap. Not knowing for sure whether or not your question was sincere or if you are a troll, we have all (in good faith) joined in to help you, which is a testament to the wonderful members we have here. Truly- we are not trying to be jerks- we're just good soapmaking folk speaking to you from our experience. Many of us have been making good, successful soap for several years, and all that we are trying to do is steer you (and any other newbies who might be reading) clear of dangerous pitfalls and bad soap-making practices. If you are truly sincere and not a troll (my sincerest apologies if you are not a troll), once you have begun to understand more of the chemistry and mechanics behind soap-making and how it all works, I am confident that you will look back on this thread and see that that's all we were trying to do, and you may even give yourself a V-8 slap to the forehead over it.

The batches you have made so far might indeed be called soap, but there's a huge difference between soap and _good_ soap. I think I can pretty much guarantee you that 100% of us here considered our very first batches of soap to be pretty good.... until we compared them to our soaps made 6 months to a year later, that is. If you really and truly want to make _good_ soap, please continue reading....

In your other thread, I asked you a few very important questions about your second batch- namely what kind of lye you used and how much of it you used as per water in order to come up with 3.5 oz of lye water. Your answer to me was the following: 





> 99% crystal lye and I did do the egg test before mixing it


 
You still didn't specify if you are using NaOH or KOH, but in any case, please stop using the egg test- it is not a reliable/accurate/proper method of making lye solution if you want to make _good_ soap.. 

In order to make _good _soap, you need to invest in a digital scale, because dry, crystal lye needs to be _weighed_. And the weight amount needs to be the correct weight in proportion to the weight of the particular oils/fats you are using in your batch. In other words, you cannot safely use the same amount of lye for a 16oz batch of a 100% lard soap that you would use for a 16oz batch of soap made with other kinds of oils/fats because (as so many have already pointed out) each oil has a different SAP# and they each need a different amount of lye to be able turn them into _good_ soap. Hopefully, you are indeed using a digital scale to weigh your ingredients instead of using volume measurements? 



			
				sligilion said:
			
		

> I was thinking on making a batch of soap and I was thinking on a recipe I came up with
> 16 oz lard
> 12 oz goats milk
> 8 oz coconut oil
> ...


 
You need to use less goat milk. Twelve oz. is way too much liquid for your size batch..... not to mention that you need to be much more specific in regards to your lye solution: i.e., how much lye to water? That is a very critical point that must be addressed. It can either make or break your soap. 

If you go to SoapCalc and just type in the oil/fat amounts for your above recipe without messing with any of the other inputs on the calculator and then click on the "View or Print' button, you'll see how much lye (in dry, crystal form) you'll need to weigh out, and also the absolute most amount of water (or other liquid) you'll need to weigh out for that batch in order to make a decent, safe batch of soap. SoapCalc has good, built-in defaults that will give newbies a good outcome if you just type in your oil/fat amounts without messing with the other inputs.

When I entered in your oil/fat amounts without messing with any of the other inputs, I came up with 3.5 oz weight of lye in dry crystal form, and a total of 9 oz. weight of water or other liquid (rounded off) for your batch.. 

The 9oz water amount that's shown is based on their default "38% water as per oil" amount, and is considered a 'full water" amount in soap parlance. That's why I specified above that it's the 'absolute most' amount of water or other liquid you'll want to use in that particular size batch with those particular oils, if you want a good outcome.

For what it's worth, if it were me making that recipe, I would dissolve my 3.5 oz weight of lye into 3.5 oz weight of water to make up my lye solution, and I would use only 5.5 oz of goat milk (to make up the total of 9oz liquid). And for ease of soaping without complications, I would add the goat milk to my oils after they are melted (rather than adding it to the lye solution). After the milk is mixed into the oils/fats, I would then add my lye solution into the oil/fat/milk mixture, bring to trace, and pour into my mold.


IrishLass


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## sliginion (Jun 1, 2016)

Im speechless... umm well since the egg test is not a good choice for lye. I might try first the 4:1 ratio for a start I guess. The lye mixture was my biggest problem


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## shunt2011 (Jun 1, 2016)

Are you using NAOH or KOH.  Also the more liquid you use the quicker and hotter it will gel. Watch for overheating.


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## sliginion (Jun 1, 2016)

I did a 4:1 ratio on the goats milk batch of soup


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## Susie (Jun 1, 2016)

...and you are arguing with good advice again.

Stop, just stop.

1.  Did you run your recipe through a lye calculator or not?  If not, stop now and go do that.  FOLLOW the amount of lye and water it says.

2.  Do you have a digital scale?  If not, stop now and go get one.

3.  What kind of lye are you using?  Where did you buy it, and how do you know it is suitable to make soap with?  

Without the above questions being answered, nothing anyone says means anything.


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## sliginion (Jun 1, 2016)

This was before I learned ab the calculator

Naoh 99%

Im not arguing I promise

I dont have a scale I will get one. And we bought the lye online it says 99% sodium hydroxide


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## Susie (Jun 1, 2016)

Good!  That is good news!

Get a decent digital scale, kitchen, not postal scale.  You don't have to spend a lot, but be sure it weighs in 0.1 oz and grams at the very least.  Postal scales take a "once and done" sort of weight, where kitchen scales weigh as you add more product to them.


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## TeresaT (Jun 1, 2016)

sliginion said:


> Im speechless... umm well since the egg test is not a good choice for lye. I might try first the 4:1 ratio for a start I guess. The lye mixture was my biggest problem


 

Seriously?  I'm speechless.  Are you even reading any of the advice you are given?  IrishLass posted a lengthy response full of excellent advise and this is what your next response is?  I've read this thread.  No one mentioned a 4:1 ratio for the lye.  Everyone has stated you should plug your oils/fats into a calculator and let the calculator determine the amounts of dry lye and liquid you need to use.  You've also been advised not to use milk until you've got a few successful batches under your belt.   The lye mixture is not your biggest problem.  :sad:


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## galaxyMLP (Jun 1, 2016)

That's exactly the caustic you need to make bar soap, so that's great! 

Sometimes it's difficult to understand where someone is coming from when they post online. I'm glad you've explained yourself and stuck with us! 

A good scale doesn't have to be expensive ($20 ones from Walmart are plenty good for soap!) 

You might want to start with a simple lard and coconut soap 80/20 with 5% superfat. 

You can start using the "full water" amount that is set at the default in the soap calculator or you can choose to use lye concentration. Many of us use a 2:1 liquid (water for your first batch is a good idea): caustic. This would be done in weight measurements. Even the water is weighed when making soap!


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## sliginion (Jun 1, 2016)

And I wont use wood ash lye water anymore. Ill learn the right way
Ok im not good with words or explaining myself

The goats milk batch was made before I joined this forum im jus now learning the mistakes I made on that batch. And im not making another batch until I get all my ducks in a row. Im not ignoring good advice


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## Susie (Jun 1, 2016)

Your words not at issue.  It is that you keep ignoring questions, and arguing with what we tell you.


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## sliginion (Jun 1, 2016)

There r so many questions that I cant answer thats y im learning.


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## shunt2011 (Jun 1, 2016)

Have you tried to run a recipe or two that have been shared with you in a  soap calculator?  You can play with it to get a feel for how it works.  It gives you all the info you need to make a successful batch or two without wasting product or money. 

Also, if you read the last 10 or so pages of the beginners forum you will glean a lot of information as well 

You are asking for help so that will unfortunately require you to answer questions so that we can help.


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## sliginion (Jun 1, 2016)

Yes the calculator is very useful but there r still some thing I dont understand ab it


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## shunt2011 (Jun 1, 2016)

What don't you understand. We can likely help you out there


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## sliginion (Jun 1, 2016)

I dont under the ratio for example: if I just wanted to make soap with 16 oz lard and I wanted to us a 4:1 ratio with the lye 99% sodium hydroxide I dont know how many ounces of lye plus water to add to the lye crystals


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## Kamahido (Jun 1, 2016)

Perhaps this would be of help to your. There is a great beginner's tutorial from Soap Queen. It is several parts long but it will give you a good start on soap making...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR6ttCSrLJI[/ame]

If something doesn't make sense on the soap calculator, leave the default value as is.


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## IrishLass (Jun 1, 2016)

sliginion said:


> I dont under the ratio for example: if I just wanted to make soap with 16 oz lard and I wanted to us a 4:1 ratio with the lye 99% sodium hydroxide I dont know how many ounces of lye plus water to add to the lye crystals


 
Okay, let's start right here, then.... 

Just to make sure we are on the same page in regards to your question about the 4:1 ratio, do you mean you want to make a lye solution made up of 4 parts water to one part lye for your batch made with 16 oz. lard?

IrishLass


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## gdawgs (Jun 1, 2016)

I think he may be overthinking the lye/water ratio.

I've only been making soap for a couple months.  I have to admit that the lye calculators are a bit intimidating at first.  Also, there are some that are more complicated than others, but they each have their strengths and weaknesses.  You just have to spend a fair amount of time with several of them to see what they all offer and before long they make sense.

For beginners, I think the one on Brambleberry.com is a good one because it walks you through step by step, and it eliminates the options for various water/lye concentrations, ratios, etc.  You just put in the oils you want to use and it spits out how much water and lye to use.


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## Dorymae (Jun 1, 2016)

sliginion said:


> I dont under the ratio for example: if I just wanted to make soap with 16 oz lard and I wanted to us a 4:1 ratio with the lye 99% sodium hydroxide I dont know how many ounces of lye plus water to add to the lye crystals



I don't understand what ratio you want to use. 4 parts what to 1 part what?  To figure out the lye and water amounts you only need to know what your oils are.


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## Susie (Jun 1, 2016)

You should never need 4 parts water to 1 part lye.  Ever.  That is why the calculator does not give you that option.  Is there some specific reason you feel you must have that ratio?


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## dibbles (Jun 1, 2016)

sliginion said:


> I dont under the ratio for example: if I just wanted to make soap with 16 oz lard and I wanted to us a 4:1 ratio with the lye 99% sodium hydroxide I dont know how many ounces of lye plus water to add to the lye crystals



I think you really need to forget about a 4:1 ratio. That isn't helping you. There is also some confusion as to the term 'lye crystals'. You need sodium hydroxide (the lye you purchased online), water and oils. That's it. So for example (I'm using soapcalc.net) 
*Section 1*: type of lye. NaOH is selected by default - don't change it. *Section 2*: weight of oils. Pounds is selected by default - change it to ounces. You want to use 16 ounces of lard, so you won't need to change anything. If you were to be making a bigger batch, you would then change the 16 to the correct weight of the oils you are using. *Section 3*: water. I think to start with, leave the setting as is. *Section 4*: superfat. 5% is selected by default. Don't change it or the fragrance amount. *Section 5*: soap qualities, fats, oils. You want to make a 100% lard soap, so scroll down the oils list until you see lard (manteca) and double click that. Lard will appear in *Section 6*: recipe oil list (make sure it is the lard that is there - the first time I add an oil to the list, it jumps to a different oil for some reason). You can delete anything from the oils list with the red - (minus) symbol on the left side of this section. % will be selected by default, so enter 100. Then go to *Section 7* and click on 'calculate recipe'. After that, click on 'view or print recipe'. A new window will open which will show you an overview of your recipe, and tell you how much water and lye you need. In this instance, you will need 6.08 ounces of water (plain, nothing added - preferably distilled water), and 2.15 ounces of lye. 

Always add your lye to your water.

ETA: There is also at the very top of soapcalc a getting started section. I found it to be very helpful when I started.


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## doriettefarm (Jun 1, 2016)

I'm also confused about wanting to use a 4:1 water to lye ratio.  In order to properly dissolve lye (NaOH), you need at a minimum equal parts liquid and lye (50% lye concentration when using a soap calculator).  The liquid can be water, goat milk, aloe vera juice, tea, coffee, beer, etc.  Some of those liquids contain natural sugars which will cause the lye solution to discolor or possibly have a funky smell.  That's why we suggest for beginners to use plain old water for the lye solution.  I've never used that much water in a batch before and imagine it would take a LONG time to be able to unmold and cut.  

The key to making a successful batch of soap is using the proper amount of lye needed to saponify the oil mixture.  As others have mentioned, each oil/butter has a different SAP value which is why a soap calculator is so important.  You want to use enough lye to turn the oils into soap plus add some extra oil that doesn't react with the lye.  This is what we call 'superfatting' and I think most folks use the standard 5% superfat.  Please note that I attempted to define a successful batch and not a 'good' batch because 'good' is so subjective . . . everyone's skin is different.


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## sliginion (Jun 1, 2016)

4 parts water 1 part lye or 3:1 or 2:1 or 1:1 the calculator does give me that opinion (soapcalc) even using 99% sodium hydroxide. All im needing to know this far is when it tells me I need 2.15 oz lye and 6.08 oz destilled water that it means pour that amount of lye to that amount of water? It just seems like too much lye to me thats all. Just being cautious


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## dibbles (Jun 1, 2016)

sliginion said:


> 4 parts water 1 part lye or 3:1 or 2:1 or 1:1 the calculator does give me that opinion (soapcalc) even using 99% sodium hydroxide. All im needing to know this far is when it tells me I need 2.15 oz lye and 6.08 oz destilled water that it means pour that amount of lye to that amount of water? It just seems like too much lye to me thats all. Just being cautious



Yes! That is exactly right for the amount of lard you are using. A different oil or combination of oils will need a different amount of lye. The water amount can change, but the lye amount will be the same. Add your lye to the water, let it cool to the temp you want to soap, and add it to the melted lard.


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## sliginion (Jun 2, 2016)

Ok thats awesome sry I do beat around the bush sometimes but yes thats the answer I needed. Tomorrow morning I will do a small batch to c how it goes. And one other question I have is can I put my oils and lard in one pan? Or do I have to wait for the trace to add my oils?
Ive seen it done both ways but I want a second and third opinion


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jun 2, 2016)

Melt your solid oils (but don't go overboard, you need them melted, not boiled!), put the liquid oils in and then add the lye solution. 

On that note, a 4:1 ratio is really far too much water for soap making. It is possible to use too much water which actually prevents the soap batter from stay emulsified. Try 2:1, so twice as much water as lye. Again, all by weight. This is much closer to the range where people soap - water:lye ratio is varies depending on the particular needs of a recipe, but almost never so high as 4:1


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## dibbles (Jun 2, 2016)

sliginion said:


> Ok thats awesome sry I do beat around the bush sometimes but yes thats the answer I needed. Tomorrow morning I will do a small batch to c how it goes. And one other question I have is can I put my oils and lard in one pan? Or do I have to wait for the trace to add my oils?
> Ive seen it done both ways but I want a second and third opinion



As TEG said, add your liquid oils to your melted lard. Just be sure to go to soap calc (or any other lye calculator you like) and refigure your lye/water amounts if you are doing anything other than a batch of 16 oz 100% lard. If you are adding in olive oil, or any other oil, the lye amount required will change. Good luck!


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## sliginion (Jun 2, 2016)

The batch I was recommended to try was lard, coconut, and olive oil I was going to do a small batch of it to get somemore practice. But im still puzzled as to to the digital scale vs using a measuring cup... is it possible to use just a measuring cup?


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## dibbles (Jun 2, 2016)

sliginion said:


> The batch I was recommended to try was lard, coconut, and olive oil I was going to do a small batch of it to get somemore practice. But im still puzzled as to to the digital scale vs using a measuring cup... is it possible to use just a measuring cup?



In a word - no. You will never be able to properly calculate how much lye you need with using measuring cups. You need to measure in weights. A scale (and also goggles) is possibly the most important piece of equipment you need. As others have said, it doesn't need to be fancy or expensive, but does need to weigh to 0.1 ounce. And you need to recalculate the lye you need if you are making a recipe with lard, coconut and olive oil. Don't use the lye and water amounts I used in the post about how to use soapcalc. That was an example using only 100% lard in the amount of 16 ounces. Adding the coconut oil and olive oil will change the amount of lye you will use. It should make a very nice soap, when done correctly.

ETA: You can probably use something like this http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ozeri-Pro-Digital-Kitchen-Food-Scale-1g-to-12-lbs-Capacity-Chrome/37531698

Someone will correct me if I am wrong about that.


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## sliginion (Jun 2, 2016)

Ok I will hold off on making it till I get a scale, goggles, robber gloves. Thank you!
Ok thats the scale ill get


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## Susie (Jun 2, 2016)

That scale will be fine.  

Good idea to wait until you get safety equipment and a scale.  While you are out getting those, grab a stickblender if you do not have one already.  Also, run by the dollar store and get a couple of mixing bowls that have a 5 in the little triangle on the bottom.  You can get the gloves, a spatula, and goggles there, also, and save some money.


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