# Need help figuring out recipe



## LunaLotion (Mar 10, 2015)

I bought a body butter on a whim at local natural food mart. I am amazed at the texture and consistency of the thick cream, it's unlike any body I've ever used before, like a thick cold cream, no greasiness at all. I love it but since I make my own products, not to sell but for myself, it's very expensive at $30 for 8 ozs.  I've tried to recreate myself and can't come close. I have tried the melting all the oils together chilling then whipping, mine never comes close to how white the original is #1 and my mix is always oily melts like butter on contact with skin, I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions? I'm thinking my next attempt, I won't melt the butters but will whip the shea and coconut oil for 20 mins at least to get good whipped peaks and slowly added melted beeswax. I'm thinking the beeswax in the recipe is what creates the non greasy feel. 

Here is the list of ingredients (in order) as listed on the jar:

Shea butter
Coconut Oil
Beeswax
Sunflower Oil
Vitamin E
Essential Oils

any suggestions on how mixing the ingredients above will yield a thick creamy lotion like I described??

Thanks in advance for the help

Luna


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## shunt2011 (Mar 10, 2015)

Adding beeswax to a relatively cool mix might give you trouble.  I've not used beeswax in a mixture without melting it first and combining with warmed oils around the same temp.  You could try it but don't be surprised if it doesn't work.  You can always melt it all down again I suppose.  I make whipped butter but don't use beeswax so maybe someone else will pipe in that's maybe tried that.


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## lenarenee (Mar 10, 2015)

I'm wondering if the label of ingredients is telling the whole story. Your description sounds more like an emulsified product. What do you know about the maker of this product?  Are they a large company? An individual making products at home?


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## osso (Mar 10, 2015)

I agree you would need to add the beeswax to the warm oils. For color, maybe white beeswax and refined shea?


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## LunaLotion (Mar 10, 2015)

lenarenee said:


> I'm wondering if the label of ingredients is telling the whole story. Your description sounds more like an emulsified product. What do you know about the maker of this product?  Are they a large company? An individual making products at home?



I wondered the same thing...is anything missing from the list. It is an individual making at home. She labels products as handmade, organic, natural fair trade ingredients. I guess only thing to do is experiment. I guess she stumbled upon a technique that is not readily known...

Thanks for the reply!!

Luna


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## DeeAnna (Mar 10, 2015)

Oh, my, you can't add beeswax to a liquid below the temp of the beeswax. I can confirm that will be a mess! 

I suspect this particular product may indeed contain precisely the ingredients listed plus water. And, no, the technique is well known, but not recommended by anyone who wants to use and sell product that is truly well made and as safe as possible. 

Many "crunchy" lotion makers try to get around using a true emulsifier and a legitimate preservative, because real emulsifiers and effective preservatives have long names that are hard to pronounce and somehow ingredients like these are Bad Stuff.

Anyways, these makers will try to use just a thickener such as beeswax. They heat up the mixture until the beeswax melts, whip the tarnation out of the mixture while allowing it to cool to room temperature, and hope desperately that the mixture stays together long enough to sell it. Most emulsions (and mixtures that pretend to be emulsions) are very white when finished due to the air whipped into the product.

Note there are only EOs listed, but none called out specifically. My bet is the maker is trying to use EOs to preserve the product as well as add scent or skin benefits. Or she is dealing with the preservation issue by wishful thinking. Hard to say without more information.


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## LunaLotion (Mar 10, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> Oh, my, you can't add beeswax to a liquid below the temp of the beeswax. I can confirm that will be a mess!
> 
> I suspect this particular product may indeed contain precisely the ingredients listed plus water. And, no, the technique is well known, but not recommended by anyone who wants to use and sell product that is truly well made and as safe as possible.
> 
> ...




Thank you DeeAnna!! That is so helpful, I was starting to think I was going crazy. Like seriously how the hell did they do this LOL. AND the preservative issue was baffling me, because no where do they state shelf life or keep refrigerated I'll start researching. I don't need organic or 100% i just love this thick cream with these great moisturizers. I'll start experimenting and let you all know what I settle on.


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## DeeAnna (Mar 10, 2015)

I just got done making 500 g of body lotion and another 500 g of hair conditioner tonight. Even though I used golden-colored calendula infused oil in the lotion and a dark brown humectant in the hair conditioner, both of the finished emulsions are pure white and very light feeling on the skin. It's fun to make this kind of stuff.


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## LunaLotion (Mar 10, 2015)

DeeAnna I am friggin' addicted!! I have always been into bath & body products, but when I couldn't find lavender products that smelled the way I wanted I started experimenting with my own creations. I am perfecting my lavender bath powder...essentially salt milk bath combo. I want to create the perfect body cream. I'm about to purchase Polawax from NDA and can't wait to start playing.


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## Cactuslily (Mar 11, 2015)

Can a sneaky labeler hide an emulsifier in their EO or FO? Without that, how else would they get that feel? I don't know about label laws, but I did read an article about LUSH products regarding this type f an issue.


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## FlybyStardancer (Mar 11, 2015)

As far as I'm aware (and I'm no expert), there is no EO or FO that can act as either an emulsifier or a preservative.


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## jnl (Mar 11, 2015)

shea and sunflower oil are both very greasy.  beeswax alone is not an emulsifier.  it might stay together for a short time due to mechanical emulsification, but would eventually separate without borax also added.  and without a preservative, thats dangerous.  especially if its a dipping container, not a squeeze/pump.

if they are lying on their label about one thing, there could be anything in there.

if you want to make a non-greasy cream, dont use sunflower.  its probably the greasiest oil out there.


if the label is correct, try equal amounts of shea, coconut oil (fractionated because thats supposed to be less greasy) and beeswax and forget the rest for now (they wont make it any less greasy).  if those 3 in equal amounts cant make something not greasy, then the label has to be wrong.  also, there could be a difference between refined and unrefined shea butter - im not sure which one would be better.


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## DeeAnna (Mar 11, 2015)

"...Can a sneaky labeler hide an emulsifier in their EO or FO?..."

I suppose they could try ... but honestly I think the label for this particular product is accurate except for omitting water. 

There are handcrafted lotion makers who are making and selling "lotion" that is thickened only with beeswax ... no emulsifier ... and they are not using preservative either. If you read the internet blog-o-sphere for lotion recipes and if you check your local organic food store, you can see for yourself. Many crunchy buyers do not want to see loooonnnnng scary chemically words on the ingredients lists for the products they buy. And there are producers out there who will give these buyers the products they think they want.

I had a friend who loved my lotion ... up to the moment when she read the ingredients list and saw an emulsifier and a preservative in there. Her face fell like she was so disappointed. When I tried to explain proper lotion making to her ... it was just like it didn't matter. <sigh> People like my friend want to buy "lotions" that can weep and grow ickies rather than deal with "chemicals".


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## mattiesmom (Mar 11, 2015)

Have you considered this product may actually be a pre-made base and the seller just added the essential oils of choice?  Not saying its good or bad, but its a very common practice and bases are available everywhere already containing preservatives and other necessary ingredients to make them safe for consumers.  The ingredient list sounds very similar to what I have seen for pre-made bases on various websites.  Also, Shea Butter cannot stand much heat, it will be grainy in the final product.  I always heat the other oils and pour over the unheated Shea so it will gently melt to avoid this.


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## FlybyStardancer (Mar 11, 2015)

DeeAnna-I worry that my brother's fiancee would do that. Last year we were talking about lotions and such (after I had just bad a batch of lotion bars and was showing them off). She mentioned wanting to make homemade sunscreen for the girls, and had seen a recipe emulsified with beeswax and borax and left in the fridge... I  told her my honest opinion was that if she wanted to make something without preservatives, then she should do an anhydrous bar. I'm pretty sure she'd be fine if I gave her something I made without an ingredients list, though. Heh


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## LunaLotion (Mar 11, 2015)

jnl said:


> shea and sunflower oil are both very greasy.  beeswax alone is not an emulsifier.  it might stay together for a short time due to mechanical emulsification, but would eventually separate without borax also added.  and without a preservative, thats dangerous.  especially if its a dipping container, not a squeeze/pump.
> 
> if they are lying on their label about one thing, there could be anything in there.
> 
> ...



JNL they are definitely using refined deodorized ingredients there is not a hint of natural coconut or shea scent. I'll the equal parts recipe and see what that yields, thanks.

Luna


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## LunaLotion (Mar 11, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> "...Can a sneaky labeler hide an emulsifier in their EO or FO?..."
> 
> I suppose they could try ... but honestly I think the label for this particular product is accurate except for omitting water.
> 
> ...



DeeAnna, the lack of preservative does raise questions, granted I live in the NE and I haven't keep the jar of cream in the bathroom but so far no mold that I can see, there has to be something in there preserving the product. BUT since the label says organic, natural and NON GMO, their customers would definitely be thrown if they listed a chemical preservative.


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## LunaLotion (Mar 11, 2015)

mattiesmom said:


> Have you considered this product may actually be a pre-made base and the seller just added the essential oils of choice?  Not saying its good or bad, but its a very common practice and bases are available everywhere already containing preservatives and other necessary ingredients to make them safe for consumers.  The ingredient list sounds very similar to what I have seen for pre-made bases on various websites.  Also, Shea Butter cannot stand much heat, it will be grainy in the final product.  I always heat the other oils and pour over the unheated Shea so it will gently melt to avoid this.


Mattiesmom I didn't consider that, good to know. All enlightening and makes me feel so much better.

Thanks!!


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## FlybyStardancer (Mar 11, 2015)

LunaLotion said:


> DeeAnna, the lack of preservative does raise questions, granted I live in the NE and I haven't keep the jar of cream in the bathroom but so far no mold that I can see, there has to be something in there preserving the product.



Just because you can't see or smell any doesn't mean that they're not there. Some of the most deadly are invisible and odorless. (Botulism, anyone?)

ETA: And not to say that you'd have botulism in it specifically (as the botulism bacteria is anaerobic, and your cream is likely getting too much oxygen for it to take hold), but it is an example of something extremely deadly that's both odorless and invisible.


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## LunaLotion (Mar 11, 2015)

FlybyStardancer said:


> Just because you can't see or smell any doesn't mean that they're not there. Some of the most deadly are invisible and odorless. (Botulism, anyone?)
> 
> ETA: And not to say that you'd have botulism in it specifically (as the botulism bacteria is anaerobic, and your cream is likely getting too much oxygen for it to take hold), but it is an example of something extremely deadly that's both odorless and invisible.



Good point!! Scary, but good point.


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## FlybyStardancer (Mar 11, 2015)

Before I got into soap & cosmetics, I learned canning. Proper sanitation and preservation methods are just as important there, if not even more important! (As is the difference between what's safe in different places. Apparently some of the north american variants of common-but-dangerous bacteria/molds are more heat-tolerant than their UK cousins. In the UK you can be perfectly safe flipping the jar of fresh, hot jam over and letting the heat of the jam kill nasties. In the US you have to actually process them in boiling water to kill them.)


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## LunaLotion (Mar 11, 2015)

So there was an email on the jar, I sent a note about shelf life and they responded that vit E and coconut oil natural preservative....there is something rotten in the state of Denmark. I'm new to this game, but have read enough to know not to rely on natural preservatives.


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## mx5inpenn (Mar 11, 2015)

LunaLotion said:


> DeeAnna, the lack of preservative does raise questions, granted I live in the NE and I haven't keep the jar of cream in the bathroom but so far no mold that I can see, there has to be something in there preserving the product. BUT since the label says organic, natural and NON GMO, their customers would definitely be thrown if they listed a chemical preservative.



Non-GMO and organic is redundant since organic currently *has* to be non-GMO. As far as the natural labeling, there is no regulation. The word natural means a lot in marketing value and nothing more. The way I see that labeling is that they used organic materials.  That doesn't negate preservatives. Just means it has to be acquired from an organic source.  

On a side note, if it's a small company, the odds that they are certified organic are slim. Legally, you can't label something organic without certification. If it doesn't have the seal on the label, they most likely aren't certified as that is a costly and exhaustive adventure. Anyone who has gone through it is going to want to make it known.


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## FlybyStardancer (Mar 11, 2015)

LunaLotion said:


> So there was an email on the jar, I sent a note about shelf life and they responded that vit E and coconut oil natural preservative....there is something rotten in the state of Denmark. I'm new to this game, but have read enough to know not to rely on natural preservatives.



Yeah, either she's not labeling properly (if she used a coconut-derived "natural" preservative and didn't put it on the label), or she's relying on coconut oil's purported antimicrobial properties... Which will not preserve an emulsion. And Vit E is an antioxidant, which will stop oils from going rancid but won't stop microbial growth.


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