# Cold Process Liquid Soap



## Susie

I saw someone asked for CP liquid soap recipes, and I know that many of us have posted our recipes spread throughout many threads.  I am going to share my recipes and process, and hopefully others will also.  Because my way is one way, not the "right" way, or the "only" way.

First, I use this lye calculator:

http://summerbeemeadow.com/content/advanced-calculator-solid-cream-or-liquid-soaps

EDIT- I now use this calculator, much more user friendly:  

http://summerbeemeadow.com/sites/all/sbm_calc_input/calc_input_page_1.1.html

ETA, again:  I now use soapee.com.  It is so very much easier than SBM, and non of the extraneous, confusing things on the calculator!

because I get much better outcomes with it than any other for liquid soap.  It looks complicated and confusing.  It is not.  Just leave blank anything you don't want to fool with like glycerin, alcohol, borax, etc.  Use 0% superfat for dishes and clothes, and 1-3% for hand soap, shower gel, shampoo, etc.   Then plug in your fats and what type of soap you are making, and you are good to go.  They, unfortunately, do not give amounts in grams, but it is easy enough to convert using online conversion tools.  

RUN EVERY RECIPE THROUGH A LYE CALCULATOR FOR YOURSELF. NO MATTER WHERE YOU GET IT.  Sorry for the caps, but it can not be stressed enough.  Typos happen.

My process is not complicated, so if you are looking for some super duper magical process, look elsewhere.  I hate extra steps.  HATE them.  But, let's just take one recipe and go through it.  I will go through using the lye calculator with the process to help anyone unaccustomed to this calculator. 

First I type what kind of soap and date in the recipe name(I print each recipe, so this does help.)

*Liquid Laundry Soap 11-3-14*

Then I click *"Liquid Soap KOH + NaOH* + Water + Alcohol" * Don't get intimidated, you don't have to use all of that.  Please note that if you don't type any numbers in for the KOH or NaOH, you get a default of 100% KOH, which is already pre-set for the 94% KOH that is available.  So, you don't have to worry about that.  

Ignore the alcohol and glycerin unless you intend to use them.

Superfatting-this is laundry soap, so I use 0%.

Then I weigh my pot and utensils, it is not necessary, but oh-so-nice to know when you go to dilute.  Type those values into the calculator.

*Pot-103.7 oz*(I use a crock pot, so all my recipes are sized accordingly. You do not have to use a crock pot.)
*Utensils*-3.6 oz

Choose oils/fats

This is just a click the arrow and choose your oil section.  Then type the amount you intend to use in ounces.  

*Coconut Oil, 76 degree- 24 oz
Soybean Oil- 8 oz*

Other ingredients:  I use 0.5 oz grated handmade bar soap to help speed trace, and 1 oz EO,so I type

*Grated soap 0.5 oz *
*EO 1 oz*

Then under that section it says, *"Click here when done"*.  You are done, so click there. 

Now is when people freak out.  So, bear with me and just hang in there.  Highlight and print out the recipe part only(gives 1 sheet recipe rather than 4 sheets).

I want you to go grab a highlighter or something.  You are going to highlight only the following. 

Coconut oil 24.00 oz
Soybean oil 8 oz
Potassium Hydroxide 100%(proportion of recipe, NOT purity) 8.08 oz
Batch Water 24.25 oz
Initial Batch Weight 4lb 0.34 oz
Other Items:
Grated soap 0.50 oz
EO 1 oz

This is all you need to worry about.  Ignore everything else.

Continued...

OK, so the process.  

I weigh my coconut oil out into a safe container to make soap in.(I use my crock pot because it is larger than anything else I have that is safe to make soap in, and I make a lot of laundry soap at the time.)

I weigh my soybean oil out into something I can pour from, usually a Pyrex cup just for the spout.  I DO NOT use Pyrex for anything that KOH or NaOH is going into!

I put on proper safety equipment(gloves, safety goggles, and long sleeved shirt), weigh out my water into a lye safe container, then weigh my KOH out.  Add the KOH slowly to the water, stirring between each addition.  I do this under the vent hood of the stove with the vent on high, and hold my head back to avoid breathing fumes.  When the last of the KOH is in, looks totally clear, and it stops sizzling, I add the grated soap.  Stick blend to mix well.  If I forget at this point to add the soap, I add it to the CO.

Put on an oven mitt, and pour that steaming hot lye water mixture over the solid CO.  Nope, I don't even melt my CO.  Stick blend until it is all melted.  Add the soybean oil and stick blend to trace using 20-30 second bursts with equal time hand stirring between to save the stick blender motor.  If I am truly in a hurry, I use 2 stick blenders, and alternate them rather than hand stirring.  

You will see several stages, you may even see flying bubbles.  Bottom line is when you get stiff paste consistency(think Elmer's paste from when you were a child.), stop stick blending.  I pull out the stick blender, and scrape it off.  Throw a beach towel that is doubled(I only use it because it is the perfect size). You can use a blanket or a couple of bath towels.  Whatever works for you and holds in heat is fine.  Just be sure it is washable, as it may get soapy.  I take this time to wash, dry, and put away the stick blender and other equipment I will not need from this point onward.  Takes about 10-15 minutes.  Write down on your recipe the stages this went through and how much time each step takes.  This keeps you from having "second batch jitters" when you are sure you have gone wrong. (Is this just me?)

I then zap test.  Yep, no cooking, no waiting hours or weeks, just 10-15 minutes.  I have yet to be zapped after making 9 batches of various soaps using this technique.  So, if you like, and are in a hurry, dilute now.  However, I am not promising clear soap if you dilute now.  It will clear up eventually, even if diluted, if you use 0% superfat and properly weighed and made the soap.  But it may not be clear right away.  I have some of this laundry soap that was white when first diluted(pulls jar out of cabinet) a couple of weeks ago, and it is clear now.  But it was VERY not clear when first diluted.  So, don't come complaining to me if it is cloudy, OK?

Now, if I am going to store this as paste, I will let it sit a few days in the pot to cool and finish doing all saponifying before dividing into Ziploc bags.  I do this BECAUSE I store in Ziploc bags, and I am not sure how safe they are with potential unsaponified KOH.  I label those bags and stick them in the fridge or cabinet.  They don't need to be cool, but I can't lose them if they are in the fridge.  I am going to get some place to store them out of the fridge one of these days....

But, pretty much, this is cold process.  No heat, other than what the KOH/water reaction brings.

*If you know how to dilute, you can stop reading here.  And thank you for your patience in reading a very long tutorial. *

To dilute:

I am not going to tell you how much water to use, because you need to learn your oils and recipes for yourself.  Good rule of thumb for me is to begin with half my paste weight in water.  If you are diluting the whole batch at once, this is where knowing your pot and utensil weights come in handy.  

Once I add half the paste weight(in this case about 32 oz) in water, I then add heat, and break up the soap paste to increase surface area.   I only add heat to speed dilution, not to complete saponification.  This will not be enough water, but it is where you begin.  I then add about 4 oz of water at the time until I get down to one or two small lumps of soap paste.  I then add about a tablespoon of water until I am down to one small soap lump.  I then stop, as this will melt while the soap is cooling enough to handle it.  Write down how much water this took, so you know for the next batch.(saves a lot of time)  If you are adding EO/FOs, add them while the soap is warm, but cool enough you can stick a bare finger in there safely.  My rule of thumb on EO amount is 0.5 oz PPO for non-irritating EOs.  I use my citrus EOs because unlike bar soaps, they stick well in liquid soaps.  Other people have different EO rates.  This is my way, not the "right" way or "only" way.

I then pour this into my laundry soap container that has a dispenser and use 1/4-1/2 cup per load depending on how dirty and how much laundry I have.  I use white vinegar in a Downy ball to help bring the pH down in the rinse cycle.  Just put enough to get to the line on the Downy ball.

I really hope others post their recipes and methods so folks don't think I am the "expert".  I am not.  I am just lazy enough and impatient enough to want the easiest way I can find.


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## new12soap

Thank you for posting this, Susie, that is very generous of you to share your recipe and technique.


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## Susie

*Other CP liquid soap recipes*

Here are a few of my other CP liquid soap recipes, I am not giving KOH or water amounts for the laundry/dish soaps because I want folks to go use the lye calculator.

*Dish or Laundry Soap*

0% superfat
Coconut oil, 76 degree- 100%(I use 16 oz)
If you are making dish soap, you might like to add 
Castor oil- 1oz 
and 
Sugar- 1 tablespoon
EO- 0.5 oz
I also add 0.5 oz grated bar(handmade) soap or an equal amount of liquid soap paste that is undiluted to speed trace. 

But, you won't want to add castor and sugar if you have an HE washer.  Too many bubbles. 

*Hand Washing Soap*

I usually put into a foamer pump, so it is really diluted for that.  
Superfat 3%
Coconut oil, 76 degree- 5 oz
Olive oil, pomace- 10 oz
Castor oil- 1 oz

Sugar- 1 tablespoon
Water- 5.2 oz  
KOH- 3.44 oz(round down to 3.4oz if your scale only does tenths of ounces)
Glycerine- 5.2 oz

I dissolve my KOH into the water.  Dissolve completely, add glycerin and sugar.  Then add HOT lye mixture to coconut oil, stick blend til melted, add the liquid oils, and stick blend/hand stir to trace.  

Note: I do NOT enter the amount of glycerin into the lye calculator.  I just take the total batch water amount and divide in half.  I will round these amounts to something my scale will handle.  So, 10.31 oz water becomes 5.2 oz water, and 5.2 oz glycerin.

In this case, the glycerin is what you use to speed trace rather than the grated soap or liquid soap paste. 

Hope this helps!


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## shunt2011

Yes, thank you Susie for sharing!


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## KatieShephard

Thank you Susie for being so generous with your time (writing this tutorial) and with sharing your recipes! :clap:


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## snappyllama

Thanks so much for sharing this!  I've been too intimidated thus far to try my hand at a liquid soap.  You've helped demystify it for me!


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## Ellacho

Oh My~~~~Susie!!! Thank you so much for sharing this tutorial!!!


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## lidia

Another, heart felt thank you!   ;-)   One newbie question though, what is EO?   Is it essential oil?

Also, in my search for CP potassium liquid soap online, I found the following recipe: http://blog.thesage.com/2012/08/15/quick-liquid-soap/.  I have not tried it yet...

Lidia


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## Susie

Just be sure you run that through a lye calculator for yourself.  No matter where you get the recipe, always check it yourself.


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## DeeAnna

The recipe on The Sage blog is going to be pretty drying to the skin because it has 75% coconut and palm kernel oils. Oy, that's a lot of lauric and myristic acid in there, so don't expect this to be a nice soap for washing skin. As they imply in the blog, it's going to be better suited for dishwashing.

I heartily recommend Irish Lass / 3bees recipe as a lovely LS that lathers well and is mild to the skin, crystal clear, and easy to make. If you want, follow the method in the Sage blog to make it. See: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?p=428988 and start reading at Post 8. I used a CP method to make this soap -- see the same thread, Post 76.

edit: I don't mean this to take away from Susie's contribution. I've filed her tutorial away for future fun!  Thank you, Susie!


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## Susie

I wanted this thread so everyone afraid to make LS could see it is really simple, and be able to get more than just my recipes.  I am thrilled you linked back to the other thread, because I want everyone to get through that thread, also.  But folks needed to be able to search "Cold Process Liquid Soap" and come up with a thread that helps them get the answers they want. 

I just did not want to keep posting replies in my own thread, as I know "bumping" threads is frowned upon.


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## DeeAnna

I read several facebook groups for liquid soapers and one of the comments occasionally made on those groups is people don't like to make liquid soap for dishwashing and general cleaning because it's a lot of work to end up with a soap that will be used up fast. I think this point of view comes from folks who cook and hover over their liquid soap paste for a very long time and then take even more time to "neutralize" the soap, even if the pH is fine. I've followed the no-stress methods explained by soapers such as Irish Lass, Suzie, and Grayceworks, so it's really no big deal to make liquid soap ... unless one wants to make it a big deal.


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## lidia

Thank you both for all the information!  I was particularly happy with DeeAnna's post #76 because it's truly CP - no external heat applied, yay!  There  is still a lot to learn and read, and purchase before trying (metal stick blender,  since I only have a plastic one).  It's also interesting to learn about different soap calculators among other things.  I've only been using the one at https://www.thesage.com/calcs/LyeCalc.html so far...

I'm somewhat confused with the glycerin. Is it a required ingredient in CP LS or can this recipe be done with water alone?  I've read in another thread that glycerin speeds up saponification process but otherwise has no effect on the finished product.  I have not worked with glycerin before.  

One more question: has anybody tried tallow in liquid soap?  For some reason I like using tallow in my bar soap and I'm curious if there is place for it in liquid soap as well.  I will certainly try posted recipes for LS first, before starting my own experiments, but I'm curious...

Thank you once more for sharing!  This is great.

I've just remembered there was one more question I had about liquid soap: I'm mainly interested in making liquid soap for laundry (laundry to landscape greywater reuse - don't want sodium around my plants).  I would like to be able to use the soap in a washing machine (front loaded).  Would the two recipes (Susie's and DeeAnna's) work in a washing machine?  Would they foam too much?  I understand I'll need to add a bit of vinegar to the last rinse, to get the suds out.

Also, my earlier comment about glycerin, I'm guessing that the grated hard soap in Susie's recipe serves the same purpose.  Is that right or is it simply too late at night and I should go to bed instead of reading all the threads right now and trying to make sense out of CP LS...?   :yawn:

Thank you again for sharing.  Much appreciated.  It is great to have such wonderful resource and not stumble in the dark.


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## Susie

OK, glycerin is only used to speed trace, and change the "feel" of the liquid soap.  It is completely optional.  But, I am impatient and lazy, and hate standing there stick blending for half an hour or more.  I am not even sure CP would work for liquid soap unless you use _something_ to speed trace.  I use the half ounce of grated handmade bar soap to speed trace in my laundry soap and dish soap.  It works.  

Yes, I use my liquid laundry soap for my top loader(but HE) washing machine.  It does not make excess bubbles.  It should be the same for a front loader as both use about the same amount of water now.   I do not add castor oil or sugar to my laundry soap just to keep the excess bubbles down.  We add vinegar to the rinse water to bring the pH in the clothes down to help keep the clothes in better shape, not for bubble control.  There are no bubbles left by the rinse cycle. 

I do not use tallow as I have no local source for pure tallow like I do lard.  I have used lard for liquid hand soap.  It makes a good quality(if not appearance) hand soap.  It makes cloudy liquid soap that would be lovely if it would stay looking that way.  Alas, the cloudiness settles out over time.  Tallow will probably lend the same results.  I do not use lard for laundry soap any longer.  I have a super sensitive nose that can smell the lardy scent after pulling it out of the dryer.  I have to even avoid using bar soap with lard in it to speed trace.

I am going to let DeeAnna, or some other sciencey type person answer for sure, but I do not think the sodium is left in soap after saponification is complete.  Even if it is, I use my liquid soap(NaOH/KOH 1:1) mixed with water for aphid control on my plants with no adverse effects whatsoever.  Works like a charm.  So I doubt there is enough sodium to bother plants when used for watering.


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## DeeAnna

Each molecule of soap will contain a sodium atom if the soap made with NaOH or a potassium atom if made with KOH. The amount of sodium or potassium coming from the household use of soap is small, especially when you consider that any soap in grey water is highly diluted from all the non-soapy water that a household generates. If you treat your household water with a water softener, there very likely will be more sodium in the grey water from the water softener than from soap. This trace sodium is not going to harm plants nor the soil.


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## CaraBou

This is a really great thread -- thanks Susie!  I have not made LS yet, in part b/c some of the recipes I had looked at seemed like a hassle, but this really boils it down to simple ingredients and a simple process.  I finally do have KOH, so after reading this, I'm setting a goal of making dish soap before New Year's Eve.  Wohoo! I'm gonna do it!


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## Susie

It is really simple.  I promise.  It is no more complicated than making CP bar soaps.  Just learn a new lye calculator and off you go.  There is probably some way to know the amount of water to add to soapcalc.net's lye calculator to get the same results, but I don't ever trust myself with math.


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## lidia

DeeAnna said:


> Each molecule of soap will contain a sodium atom if the soap made with NaOH or a potassium atom if made with KOH. The amount of sodium or potassium coming from the household use of soap is small, especially when you consider that any soap in grey water is highly diluted from all the non-soapy water that a household generates. If you treat your household water with a water softener, there very likely will be more sodium in the grey water from the water softener than from soap. This trace sodium is not going to harm plants nor the soil.



NaOH soap could be a problem in laundry to landscape system if the output is always going to the same place, e.g. a few trees, AND they grow in a heavy clay soil (which is what I have).  Over time, sodium can accumulate and cause problems for plants.  Specifically with little rain fall...

I would not use softener - thank you for this additional information!


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## CaraBou

Tonight I am going to meet my goal of making dish soap before the year's end. An Old Year's Resolution, so to speak   My store bought bottle is almost gone. Susie, thanks for helping me set this goal, and to achieve it.  

Unless someone see flaws, my dish soap will have 75% CO, 21.5% OO, 3.5% castor, plus 0.5 oz ppo each of sugar (added to lye sol'n), grated cp soap (added to lye sol'n), and a citrus EO (added right after dilution).

The process looks so straight forward, I have just one question: What do you find works best to break up the soap paste during dilution?  A whisk or spoon?  It would help to know now what I am going to use so I can plug that weight in to the calculator.



Susie said:


> Once I add half the paste weight(in this case about 32 oz) in water, I then add heat, and break up the soap paste to increase surface area.



Thanks again for all the great info.  I am excited to finally open the KOH that I bought several months ago!


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## Seawolfe

That is pretty much the dish soap recipe I use Caribou, with my SF at 0.5 %. I must confess that I still use soap calc for my LS and my paste is HARD, and needs a stainless spoon to break the chunks. As I understand it, the calc Susie uses for LS uses more water and your paste won't be so hard, so you might be able to use a whisk. Poke at the paste and see

Weigh with both would be my suggestion. The spoon is nice for scraping bits off the side.


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## Susie

I use a spoon to break the paste up.  What I generally do(especially if it is paste I have stored for a while), is just stab the paste blob as many times as possible to start with.  Then when it is warmed up and softer, I scoop up globs to float in the dilution water.


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## DeeAnna

Spoon, spatula, or potato masher ... whichever is handy and suits my mood at the time. 

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD


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## CaraBou

Well, that seemed easy after my normal hoop-te-da with 5-6 oil, swirled bar soap. But of course, I'm only half done.

I may not have blended long enough last night.  I had a hard time remembering the consistency of Elmer's paste, but I sure knew wallpaper paste when I saw it, and I stopped shortly after that.  It was pretty gloppy and gel-like.  Eleven hours later, my paste is firm enough to hold a SS spoon upright, but not so hard that the paste must be split or broke when poking down.  Too soft?  It actually did zap after Susie's 20 minute benchmark, but not when I checked next in another couple hours.  This morning it is almost tasteless, hardly worth rinsing my mouth afterward.  I suppose the lack of fragrance adds culinary appeal 

I made a really small batch, smaller than any of my bar batches, just 227 g (8 oz) of oils. Error would be amplified, for sure.  But I took the chance because hey, I was experimenting, and  I'm not exactly trying for enough to replace my automatic dishwasher  .

Think it will still harden up?  Or is WYSWYG?  If it stays this consistency, am I stuck with a thin, watery dishsoap?

Next question: Is there a minimum recommended time for diluting to the final product?  Susie implied clarity may be an issue, and I'd like to see this as soon as possible so I know what the standard is.  

Thanks all for your help along the way.


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## Susie

You can dilute as soon as it is zapless.  That will not affect clarity whatsoever.  You add water until the globs are almost gone.  It will be watery thin.  All handmade liquid soap is thin.  If you must have it thicker, you need to get a thickener of some sort.(IrishLass has several posts on this, as well as others.)

I have started just using the paste under the water faucet to make my dish water.  And I dab a bit on a dish cloth or scrub brush directly if I have just one or two items.  Sort of extrapolating on the Soap2Go idea.  I found some silicone squeezable tube things at Walgreens that I loaded 100% CO dish soap paste into, and screwed the lid on.  Dispenses a thin string of paste.  Use as much or as little as you like.  Works a charm.  I am also using it to remove spots on laundry.  I may try using more water in the beginning to get just a bit looser paste.  Hmmm.....

Oh, and before I forget, if you are leaving it as paste for dish soap, you can add the EO as soon as you are done getting paste.  You don't even have to wait for no zap.  I do NOT use an EO in the paste I use to remove spots in laundry.  But I take part of the paste and add EO for dishes, and leave part unscented for other uses.

Making CP liquid soap paste IS just as easy as making CP soap.  It just takes a bit of time for dilution.  But, if you think about it, you have to wait to unmold and cut CP soap the next day, so truly it is faster.  AND you can use it as soon as you have no zap.


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## CaraBou

Oh good, it sounds like I'm on track.  It was fun trying something new.  And yeah, it's pretty impressive that it does not require the usual drill of patience.  

Sooo...ap. the dilution is optional.  Is there any real advantage in diluting, or is primarily just to dispense by a conventional means?  Well, I'll play around with it tomorrow - been gone most of the day today and am out the door again now.


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## Susie

Apparently dilution is just for dispensing.  Someone(I am sorry, but I forget who!) said they dabbed a little 100% CO paste on a sponge to clean their bathroom.  That got me thinking.  So now I am sort of flying by the seat of my pants on the rest of this.  I definitely dilute for hand soap, so it will go into the foamers, and laundry soap so it will go into the jug(and dispense).  But I just don't see that it is mandatory for any other use.  I am about to make some shampoo paste that I intend to leave as paste to try.


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## DeeAnna

I use the soap paste direct on a damp sponge for general cleaning. I will sometimes shake a little Bon Ami (a powdered abrasive cleanser) in the sink or shower, spread some paste on a damp sponge, dab it in the Bon Ami, and scrub away on the dirtiest spots. Baking soda would work in place of the Bon Ami.

I think it can be easy to use too much LS paste ... "a little dab will do ya" ... but I love that it is a "dry" gel so it's not drippy. I try to remember to use the gel with the idea that I'm sort of diluting as I use it, not diluting beforehand.

This discussion reminds me of a comment I read on a LS Facebook page awhile back. The person said she didn't make or use LS for general cleaning because LS was so time consuming and difficult to make. I tried to explain that it doesn't need to be so complicated and labor intensive, but I've since learned to mostly keep my mouth shut. I think some soapers like the misery too much. 

I suppose if I agonized over LS like that person, I'd have the same opinion she does. Thankfully I don't -- Susie and Irish Lass have been so helpful in de-mystifying LS making, so I see matters quite differently. I'm all for straightforward and sensible!


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## Susie

Ah-ha!  It is DeeAnna that started that thought in me!  Thank you for that!  I LOVE how we all learn from each other and play off each other's ideas here!  I love using the soap paste for dishes!  Just rub a bit(I keep a tube by the sink) on a dish cloth, and away I go.  It generally takes a dab about the size of a dime to do a whole sink full.  I love how it gets greasy stuff clean!  I am going to try your Bon Ami idea on some old bakeware that has the spray oil crud buildup on it.  The SOS pads make me itch for days.  And they tear up my gloves.


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## CaraBou

No happy dance yet for me... I have a slight issue (*sigh*).  I skimmed a little paste off the top, put it into a sink filling with hot water, and noticed a complete lack of bubbles.  So then I started poking around in the container and found a thin layer of liquid at the bottom.  Crap, it zaps!  So I dumped it all into a SS pot, turned the stove top on low heat for a few minutes, and hand stirred the liquid back in. Nothing appeared to melt so I turned the element off.  Then I left the pot for a few minutes to troubleshoot on the forum (didn't find anything). When I  went back to the pot it seemed like the paste was a little thicker so I put it all back into the original container.  Both times I transferred the paste, it held together really well.  I rinsed the original paste container in between transfers, and it bubbled like crazy.  So at least I made a little soap even if not a lot!  

Any tips on what to do?  Sorry to mess up your nice clean thread; I can start a new one if the zap doesn't go away. I hate to say it, but I don't think I fixed the problem  :shh:


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## Susie

I am happy you posted it here!  This is where it belongs!

I am just going to review the recipe real fast to verify it with you:

CO 75%
OO 21.5%
Castor Oil 3.5%
Grated soap-0.5 oz

If I might ask your superfat percentage and the lye calculator you used, I might be able to start troubleshooting this in the morning(too sleepy tonight).  Any possibility you could post actual amounts used?  I am fairly certain you used 16 oz oils, but it would be nice to verify.


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## CaraBou

Thanks Susie, I'm glad my problem belongs _somewhere_! 

You have the right recipe, but I only used 8 oz oils, not 16.  I knew it was risky to go that low but I went for it anyway.  So here are the amounts:
168 g CO, 49 g OO, 7 g castor, 56 g KOH, 169 g water, 7 g grated soap, 1/2 Tbls sugar.  0% SF. Used the Summer Bee Meadow calc like you recommended.

I repoked the paste (it sounds more perverse than it is, really) and it is definitely harder than it was before I stirred the lye water back in.  I'll let it sit overnight and see what it does.  Get some sleep -- no crisis here! :shifty:

ETA: I have borax and am not afraid to use it if that's a sure fix.


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## Susie

Looks OK on the SBM(not advanced).  

You may have to use the borax solution.  I can't think what else to do with it.  Remember that you have to use boiling water to dissolve borax in.  Put your paste back into the crock pot and turn it on high. Use 3 oz borax in 6 oz boiling water in a separate container.  Then add only about a tablespoon of that mixture to warm paste before stirring very well, wait an hour and then zap test.  It should not need much, so after the first tablespoon, I would probably use only a teaspoon at the time.  

I tend to make only 500g oil recipes or larger for fear that small errors are magnified in smaller batches.


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## CaraBou

Actually, it seems to be good now.  No more liquid on the bottom, and no zap that I can find.  And the paste is really firm, which seems more in line with what I was expecting based on the other descriptions. But there are almost no suds to speak of -- is that normal?  I'm not looking for a bubble bath, but still.  It'd probably be great for my HE washing machine even though that's not why I made it!


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## Susie

Mine is not much in the way of bubbles, either.   My hand soap lathers fine, but not my dish soap or laundry soap.  The paste on the cloth/brush trick gives lots more bubbles.  I use my dishwasher mostly, so it is rare I need a sink full of soapy water.  It will clean just fine, though.


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## DeeAnna

I get bubbles when I use my LS on a damp sponge or bath pouf or when I rub it between my hands for handwashing or if I use it in my hair as a shampoo. When I put some squirts of diluted soap in a bowl of water to wash dishes ... nope, it doesn't make more 'n a trace of bubbles that don't last. I'm trying to teach myself that removing grease off the dishes, not bubbles, is the important thing. 

What's cool (at least from my geeky perspective) is how a container of clean water + my LS = clear solution. But add some greasy dishes and scrub them a bit, and the water turns milky. That's the soap working to emulsify the fat. Neat!


----------



## Susie

This is off subject, but I don't know where else to put it.  Does anyone make their own dishwasher soap from scratch, not just borax and washing soda, but actual soap?

I am thinking some 100% CO paste with borax and washing soda probably won't make too many bubbles...but I don't want a kitchen full of suds, either.


----------



## DeeAnna

Susie -- I'd probably try putting a mix of your LS, borax, and washing soda in a quart jar, add some cold water, cap, and shake vigorously -- pretend you are your automatic dishwasher. If you get a lot more froth compared with the usual stuff you use in your dishwasher, I'm thinking this idea might not work too good. 

I'm basing my suggestion on our discussion in the last few posts (above) where we say we get lather with a lot of agitation and aeration (sponge, bath puff, shampooing) but not so much where the agitation is low (handwashing dishes in the sink). An automatic dishwasher does a lot of splashing and aerating compared to hand dishwashing. 

Just musing out loud, though -- I've not actually tried using my handmade soap in my dishwasher.


----------



## Susie

I feel some experimentation coming on...but not today.  I need to make laundry soap paste tomorrow, so that would be the best time.

*EDIT*  Found some 100% CO paste.  Used 1 tsp each of paste, borax, and washing soda in a quart jar and shook vigorously.  Quick bubbles with quick deflation.  Added 1/4 tsp salt.  No bubbles.  I am thinking I might be trying it in the dishwasher tonight.


----------



## DeeAnna

Oh, you kitchen alchemist, you! Looking forward to the results....


----------



## CaraBou

Thanks for answering all of my questions along the way, ladies. I *think* I can live without suds in my dishwater but wanted to make sure this was the norm.  And what you said about agitation makes sense, considering all the bubbles I got when I rinsed my original container with the kitchen sink sprayer.  I'll have to play around some more to see if I might be able to use it in my front load washing machine.  I have been really hesitant to make/put anything in there that might get too sudsy, but this stuff actually might work 

Susie, I'll be interested to know how your modified soap does in the dishwasher.  Too bad dishwashers don't have a window in the door like frontload washing machines do!


----------



## Susie

I have a top load HE washer, and my laundry soap works fine.  I don't add castor or sugar, so sudsing is minimal and short lived.  

I totally agree about the window.  But if I don't have suds all over the kitchen, I will count my blessings.  

I had to run to town for a couple of hours, and when I got back, the dishwasher had already been run.  But I am going to try to make some looser paste today, so it will be easier to mix with borax, washing soda, and salt.


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## mrs_junn

*Hope I'm not being a pain!*

Susie, I followed the recipe, did the calculations, pulled up a separate document and copied ONLY what was needed over, followed the instructions and used the stick blender. I, like another poster, could not recall the thickness of Elmer's paste, I stopped at liquid Elmer's glue instead (warm icing). It went through foamy to applesaucey to thin and splashy to the warm icing stage where I stopped when my blender wasn't working as well. I covered it with a towel, cleaned up and checked other things for about 30 min, then came back to thick thick paste. I zap tested it and it zapped the poo out of me (9v battery x10). Waited another hour or so and it zapped me again, a little less. Waited 2 more hours and it still has a bit of a zap to it. Tested it with the pH strip and it says it's between 11 and 12. Am I on the right track? I am going to just try and wait it out, but it's a giant firm blob in my crock pot (which is off) with a bit of watery substance around it. This is the measurements I got, using just coconut oil:

Coconut Oil				33.7 oz
Potassium Hydroxide		9.05 oz
Water				27.14 oz

Initial Weight			4lbs 5.89 oz

Other Items
Grated Soap			0.5 oz
EO					1 oz

Boy am I lost! But somehow strangely addicted?! This is not quite as expensive (yet) of a hobby as my winemaking is, lol. I'm sure it will be soon though, I am enjoying myself through my mistakes! Thanks anyone and everyone for any help!


----------



## Susie

I am so sorry I missed your post.  I don't know what happened. 

Your recipe should be fine.  I would have run the stick blender longer(until paste), but hopefully it is zapless by now.  

The only thing I can think of is a possible mis-weigh.  Have you checked your scale lately?


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## Dahila

the best invention were made by kitchen alchemists.  Oh Susie you abandon your thread?  I hope everyone has a nice weekend


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## Susie

I have not worked on dishwasher soap recently.  I started having eczema on my lips and hands, and have been re-formulating my lip balm and hand balm to try to eliminate the cause.  It might be a bit before I am willing to get my itchy hands back into anything.


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## Dahila

oh Susie I am sorry to hear about the eczema.   Maybe you should start to make some hands and lips creams, formulated especially for eczema.


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## Susie

My lip balm and hand balm are exactly what the problems are.  I am fairly sure it is the lanolin, as my lips are much better, but my hands are still itchy(it takes a couple of weeks for them to stop itching).


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## DeeAnna

Urgh! I am ouching (itching?) in sympathy for you, Susie. I keep reading the experts that say lanolin is supposedly not an irritant, but I keep hearing that it most certainly is an irritant for more people than the experts think. Bummer....


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## Susie

I used lanolin in lip balm for 9-10 months, I think.  No problem whatsoever.  The cold weather/heater running often is drying my hands out, so I needed to "seal" lotion in better.  So, I made some hand balm with basically my lip balm recipe, only without the extra beeswax.  It took about 1.5 weeks for my lips and hands to react.  Don't ask me why, I don't know.  Same jar of lanolin I have been using out of for months.  This is why we tell people over and over that you can become allergic to anything at any time.  It does not matter how long you have been using it.

I have switched to a lanolin free lip balm with lard, and my lips are all but cured.  My hands still itch, and may for a while.  I don't really want to put the heavy duty steroid cream on them, but if they are no better in a couple of days, I will have to.


----------



## Melodyuk

Hi everyone,

I am new in soap making. I made 2 batches of CP bar soaps. Turned out great. I wanted to try liquid soap....saw few videos on you tube, it scared hell out of me....buying crockpot, cooking for hours. I thought ...liquid soaps not for me. Then I somehow landed on this thread and I had this big grin on my face. Perfect method for me. Thanks Susie for CP LS method. I will try to make some most probably tomorrow. I will post the outcome. I am going to try your hand soap recipe. any suggestions before I begin? as this is going to be my very first LS.
Thanks once again



Susie said:


> I used lanolin in lip balm for 9-10 months, I think.  No problem whatsoever.  The cold weather/heater running often is drying my hands out, so I needed to "seal" lotion in better.  So, I made some hand balm with basically my lip balm recipe, only without the extra beeswax.  It took about 1.5 weeks for my lips and hands to react.  Don't ask me why, I don't know.  Same jar of lanolin I have been using out of for months.  This is why we tell people over and over that you can become allergic to anything at any time.  It does not matter how long you have been using it.
> 
> I have switched to a lanolin free lip balm with lard, and my lips are all but cured.  My hands still itch, and may for a while.  I don't really want to put the heavy duty steroid cream on them, but if they are no better in a couple of days, I will have to.



Sorry to hear about your eczema. I have same problem. When its really itchy....i use witch hazel or aloe vera gel it really helps with itching. i relax for atleast few hours until it starts itching again.


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## Susie

I am so happy to help someone not get overwhelmed with the thought of making liquid soap!!!

I have switched to this calculator, as it gives the same results, but is much less complicated:

http://summerbeemeadow.com/sites/all/sbm_calc_input/calc_input_page_1.1.html


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## Dahila

When my son had the "attack" of eczema I used mint tea to wet the spots, peppermint helps with itching. You should try to use oil infused with stinging nettle it is very effective


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## Dorado

My eczema loves lanolin I add´3% in GLS - but if you'ld like to try something else, not greasy:
Mix 1tsp glicerine with 5tsp (1:5) water/rosewater or aloevera juice/gel, spray itching hands several times during the day. Store in fridge (the liquid, not the hands)


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## Susie

Thanks for the suggestions, y'all!  With my eczema, I think I have tried every "home remedy" out there.  I found out a long time ago that, for me, I have just two choices- put nothing on them, or put the clobetetasol proprionate.  It took me many years of trial and error to find that out.

Everyone's skin is different, what helps one, hurt's another.  And what is wonderful for a long time, suddenly becomes the problem.


----------



## Melodyuk

I made LS. so far so good. 
my experience... I stick blended until it became a thick paste and I covered it in towels like I did with CP bar soaps. IT ACTUALLY GELLED UP!:grin::grin::grin::grin:. sorry for caps but i'm so happy. "gelling" up was after about 30 mins. its still warm. I will wait until it cools down and then I will zap test it. I'm really happy as it has been successful so far and I thought that I would never be able to make it but it's going great thanks to Susie.


----------



## Susie

:clap::clap::clap:


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## coffeetime

I remember reading somewhere in here about which calculators use which % purity for KOH, but when I search the thread it doesn't appear. Can anyone enlighten me? I have 90% KOH.


----------



## Susie

Soapcalc.net offers 90% purity.  SBM gives 94% as a default.  

If you use SoapCalc, you may want to consider adding water to the paste stage to give you the full 3:1 water/KOH ratio.  Works much better for me.


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## coffeetime

Thanks Susie. Can the SBM calc be changed to 90? I looked but couldn't see anywhere to do it.


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## Susie

Not that I can find.  However, I use SBM regularly with the ED KOH and no problems.  

If you find you are having superfat issues(cloudy layer on top of liquid soap), just use the SoapCalc.net KOH 90% option with the adjustment for water figured in by hand.  That should fix it.  I just have a horrible memory, and am afraid I will forget to add water.


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## coffeetime

So the initial water for mixing KOH should be three times the KOH?


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## DeeAnna

"... Can the SBM calc be changed to 90?...

Nope. 

Yep, you're correct -- water = 3 X KOH.

A way to get Soapcalc to calculate this number is to set the lye concentration to 25% OR set the water:lye ratio to 3. Either way means the same thing, just 2 ways to think of it.


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## coffeetime

Got it, thank you. I'll try it this afternoon and report back.

I have alkanet infused olive oil that I use for CP, so I'm going to use a little of it to tint the LS (not this first batch). Has anyone used infusion to colour LS? Does it work?


----------



## Susie

Yes, I have, and yes, it works!  Gives lovely color to the liquid soap!


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## coffeetime

Awesome, thanks Susie! I also have annatto infused oil so I can try that another time. I have to research how to get essential oils to stay in suspension with liquid soap next.


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## Susie

You don't have to research that, LOL.  As long as you use 3% or less superfat, and avoid citrus(esp. grapefruit) EOs that are not labelled as X or "fold", there is usually no problem.


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## coffeetime

Really? That's great. I had visions of a slick of EO on the top of the soap.


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## Susie

Nope, EOs need to be added when the diluted soap is just cool enough that a bare finger can tolerate going in the soap.  Stir just enough to distribute it, and continue cooling before bottling.  I would let that soap sit a week or two(sequester) to be sure any solids have time to fall out of suspension(or do something else weird), before putting into bottles for giving away, but I know you are going to want to use it just for your use before then.  I always do, anyway.


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## coffeetime

Yes, I'm excited to try it. I've been meaning to try making liquid soap for ages and just haven't gotten to it. I've been saving dispenser bottles to reuse even.


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## Saponista

I was having huge problems with that as I was adding my FO and EO when the soap was cold. Every time it went so cloudy it was white. I will give adding the oil to warm soap a go and see if it solves my problem. Thank you so much Susie, you are a real fountain of useful information!

I used mine fairly early and it didn't lather very well and felt a bit drying, but now it's a couple of months old it lathers beautifully and isn't drying at all. Exactly the same as with a solid bar.


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## Susie

Good point, Saponista.  Liquid soap made at home is THIN.  It is the nature of the beast, I'm afraid.  You can choose to thicken, or just go with foamer bottles.  I still dilute my soap further with the foamer bottles.


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## herackonchiasa

Its really fun using a spoon to mix the lye and the oils


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## Melodyuk

update

I zap test  it after it cooled down, it passed the zap test :grin:. Dilution went well, as I already knew it will be cloudy it is cloudy but not milky ...so that passed as well. liquid was thin though which i knew it would be so i added some guar gum about half a tea spoon. now it has the consistency that i want. adding guar gum gave LS silky feel to it. love it. thanks Susie.

Just two question though...1. my paste is not as thick as i saw some images. it is kind of soft i had to spoon it out. Is it normal or something went wrong? ( I didnt have enough CO so i used more of olive pomace.....could it be that?)

2. After making the soap I ran same recipe through soapcalc just to see the difference between both calculator. soapcalc suggested less water(for making lye solution) than the cal we used. Does it affect the end result of soap if water is more or less?


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## Susie

Yay!

You did re-run the recipe through the calculator when you changed the oil amounts, right?

Not every soap goes through every stage.  Sometimes the same recipe goes through different stages(don't ask me why).  

I much prefer the SBM amount of water to mix with the KOH.  Makes the paste easier to work with.  Has no effect on end result other than it takes me longer to dilute if I start with less water.


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## DeeAnna

The defaults for Soapcalc are best for bar soap. For liquid soap, change the lye concentration to 25% and that will work better. This change will make Soapcalc calculate about the same amount of water as the SummerBeeMeadow calc does.


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## Melodyuk

Susie said:


> Yay!
> 
> You did re-run the recipe through the calculator when you changed the oil amounts, right?
> 
> Not every soap goes through every stage.  Sometimes the same recipe goes through different stages(don't ask me why).
> 
> I much prefer the SBM amount of water to mix with the KOH.  Makes the paste easier to work with.  Has no effect on end result other than it takes me longer to dilute if I start with less water.



Yes I did re-run the recipe. I used SBM and followed that. I will stick to SBM for liquid soap. Thanks so much Susie. You gave me the confidence to make LS. I am so eager to make more batches even though i dont need it. lol



DeeAnna said:


> The defaults for Soapcalc are best for bar soap. For liquid soap, change the lye concentration to 25% and that will work better. This change will make Soapcalc calculate about the same amount of water as the SummerBeeMeadow calc does.



Thanks DeeAnna. I Will keep that in mind.


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## Dahila

I have at least 1.5 l of dilluted but not scented soap,  so according what Susie said I should warm it up and then add FO?  I added it to cold dilluted and is cool with small addition of PS


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## Susie

Is the FO floating on the top?  If not, you are OK.  I don't use FOs, so I have no idea how they behave with soap of any sort.  I am not "anti-FO", so please don't think that.


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## Dahila

I love the cool citrus and basil.  Somehow I can not do this scent with my EO so I stick with it) Nothing is floating on the top.   ) Susie you and Irishlass are the best teachers)


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Okay, I have questions - 

If I use some grated soap instead of the glycerin to aid trace, does it matter what soap it is?

What are the differences between using glycerin and grated soap?

I might actually be making LS soon.....................


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## Susie

I use 0.5 oz grated hand made soap(regardless of batch size).  I generally use my "not pretty" soap for this purpose.  I try to only use 5% superfat soap that is low in color.  I don't use micas or such, so use soaps with those at your own risk.

If you use grated soap, add it to the hot lye water after you make sure the KOH is dissolved completely.  I just give it a quick whiz with the SB to mix it, then dump that into the oils.  Remember that the hotter your lye water, the faster you get to trace, so don't wait for anything to cool.   There is no difference in time spent SBing to trace between KOH LS made with grated soap and KOH LS made with glycerin.  There is quite a lot less time in SBing the NaOH LS to the stage it said to stop SBing.  

As for end results, I am not the best person to ask.  I tend to use my grated soap with laundry/dish soap with 0% SF, and my glycerin LS for hand soap with 3% SF.  So, I would be comparing apples and oranges.


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## DeeAnna

The point of "trace" is that your soap batter has reached a stable mixture, meaning the fat and water layers won't separate (break) when you stop mixing. If the batter isn't stirred or otherwise encouraged to form a stable mixture, the saponification reaction can take a very long time. Once a stable mixture is created, however, saponification can proceed on its merry way. 

One way to get to a stable mixture is to simply mix the ingredients until enough soap forms and the batter reaches the point of a chemically stable emulsion (aka trace). 

The other way is to add extra ingredients. I can think of three methods --

One method is to add a finished soap as a chemical emulsifier (Susie's added soap). Adding a bit of soap to a young soap batter will jump start the formation of a stable mixture. The added soap acts exactly like the emulsifiers BTMS or e-wax when you make a lotion.

Another method is to increase the mutual solubility of all ingredients so they can become intimately mixed more easily and thus start to saponify quicker. Glycerin does this.

A third method is to add a catalyst that accelerates the rate of saponification. A catalyst is any chemical that makes it easier for the fats to break apart and react with the lye. Two examples of catalysts are eugenol, a chemical in clove EO, and the notorious fast-tracing floral EOs and FOs.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman

Ah okay.  In that case, I think I might use soap for washing up liquid and try both soap and glycerin in two identical recipes to see if there is a difference between the two.


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## Susie

Washing up liquid = dish washing liquid soap?  Glycerin is a tad expensive for me to use it in dish washing soap.  I would really rather save it strictly for hand washing.  But that is me.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman

Susie said:


> Washing up liquid = dish washing liquid soap? Glycerin is a tad expensive for me to use it in dish washing soap. I would really rather save it strictly for hand washing. But that is me.


 
It does indeed - my English ways.

I am wondering mainly how a hand washing soap comes out with the grated soap instead of glycerin, mainly - as you say, it's not cheap.


----------



## Susie

I was sitting here wondering the same thing.  Theoretically, there should be no difference except for the agent used to speed trace.  

The 0% SF for washing up liquid is perfectly safe for routine hand washing, but it is 100% CO, so it is drying.  

There really should not be any difference. 

And if I did not have almost a gallon of liquid hand washing soap, I would make more to test it.


----------



## DeeAnna

The one opinion I can offer -- I made the same LS paste in three ways -- (1) all water, (2) 1 part glycerin and 2 parts water, and (3) 2 parts glycerin and 1 part water. I diluted them all with just water. What I noted is the diluted soap using (3) the paste with the most glycerin seems to make slightly less lather. 

Not that it exactly relates to the discussion, but since we're on the subject of glycerin vs water, I also did another trial where I diluted the same LS paste with (4) just water and (5) a mixture of water and glycerin. In this case, there was definitely less lather with (5) the glycerin-water dilution.

I wouldn't expect soap to have much if any effect on lather.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman

Oooh, then I am going to make a "dish washing liquid" (washing up liquid is so ingrained in my head) first, then afterwards two lots of normal liquid soap, one with the gly as trace-maker and another with soap for a side-by-side comparison.  

I am going to do an experiment like what you do!  I am really far too excited.


----------



## Carreiram

Ok, just realized that a lye calculator can be found online using this. As I said, I am brain fried and running in a tight schedule. Thanks!


----------



## lidia

*Failed attempt at CP LS...*

Hello everyone

I finally took the time to try the CPLS method originally posted by Susie in this thread.  Alas, something went wrong.  I'm guessing it was my change in the recipe.  Here is what I used:
Coconut Oil (76 degree)    24.00 *75.00*
Castor Oil     8.00 *25.00*
Potassium Hydroxide :   7.83 ounces
MinimumWater : 23.48 ounces
OtherItems: Amounts: Units:*
Grated soap**   0.50**  ounce**
Essential Oils**  1.00**  ounce*

I used calculator from: http://summerbeemeadow.com/sites/all/cgi-bin/sbm_lye_calculator_1.1.cgi.  The change I made was from soybean oil to castor oil...  

I made this soap last Sunday early evening.  I wasn't sure what is the consistency of elmer's paste, so I was mixing till really thick, like whipped cream with a heavy body.  I went to check on it today, Tuesday,  and the soap looked like hard soap...  I decided to do the zap test (for the first time in my life - I've made a handfull of CP soap bars to date, with no zap problems).  I dug in with a knife to get some soap from the middle and oh boy did it zap.  I can still feel it.... :shock:  The liquid separated from the solids - it's all liquid on the bottom.  I posted a photo of this failed attempt at [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oJgH57sorQ&feature=youtu.be[/ame] (please pause the photo as it only displays for 5 seconds).  The main question I have is: what now???  :???:  Is there a way to recover from this and if so how?

I was trying for 2% superfat as I wanted to use it as a bath soap.

Thanks much
Lidia


----------



## DeeAnna

True, the zappy-ness is not what you expected, but the soap is not a failure either. Set it aside and wait a bit more to see if Susie or Irish Lass will help you out. 

Your recipe looks fine, although be aware that the SBM calc is based on 95% pure KOH. You didn't say what your actual KOH purity was, so you might want to check into that while you're waiting.


----------



## Susie

The top is soap paste, though?  If so, have you tried zap testing the top portion of the paste?  If it is zapless, I would pull the paste off of that liquid and see whether it will dilute out to soap.  Hold onto the alkali liquid, though, in case you get separating soap, you can just add a little bit at the time back in, until it goes back together.

The only possibilities I can think of is inaccurate KOH purity or an inaccurate scale.  But fixing it remains the same no matter what the cause.


----------



## Soapmaker145

My suggestion is to recook it to mix it all together.  It should be fine as long as your lye is good quality.  If it is in a crock pot, just reheat to melt.  It looks like it wasn't fully traced when you put it to sleep.  It needed to be stirred a little longer.  Getting a solid trace with KOH is harder.  The lye and the oils just want to separate more.  I use a similar method and I check on it 2 or 3 times the first day.  If it separates, I stir to remix and reheat if necessary.


----------



## lidia

Thanks for response.  I used Duda's Red Hot Devil Potash, Dry Potassium Hydroxide 90+% Purity.

Lidia

I believe I tried zap testing the top part.  I'm kind of reluctant to try again...  roblem:  I was doing it all outside, since I have no fan hood over my stove and wanted ample air.  I did throw a doubled towel over the mixture and brought it into the garage after a while of sitting outside.  Perhaps it just go too cold too quickly.  It's in a stainless steel pot, so I'll reheat and see what happens.

Btw, I was wondering about the purity of potash.  Still if mine is less potent than expected, I would expect less zap.  ;-)


----------



## Susie

I don't know that brand.  I can't help much on what their purity is.


----------



## lidia

I reheated the paste for about 5 - 10 minutes and mixed.  That's about 2 days ago.  It became *very* thick.  Just checked on it and this is what it looks like now: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkzfg_2HIpQ[/ame].  No separation.  However, it still has a zap (I was weary of testing...  ;-)  ).  I have just reheated it again (5 minutes) and will leave under a couple of towels once more.  I guess I will repeat this process till no zap.   Is there a better way to test if it's safe?


----------



## Susie

If you are absolutely sure that you are getting a sharp zap, cooking more is not going to help unless you add some oil to react with that KOH.  Just pick one of the oils, and add very small amount (14 grams or so) about once every 30 minutes until you no longer get zap. 

I would also assume, from this point onward, that your lye purity is higher than the 95% assumed by SBM.  So, use Soapee.com, and keep increasing the purity until you can make a 0% superfat soap without getting zapped.


----------



## DeeAnna

Keep track of the weights of the oil added per Susie's suggestion above. Then add that weight of added oil to your original recipe. Go to Soapee.com. Enter the fats from your revised recipe. Set the superfat to zero.

Now, set the KOH purity in Soapee to what you THINK the purity of the KOH is. Look at the KOH weight that Soapee has calculated. Is that the weight of KOH that you actually used? If not, change the KOH purity setting until Soapee gives you the weight of the KOH you really used. 

When you get a match, then that purity is about what your KOH purity actually is. You will want to use this actual purity % in future recipes.

For a new recipe, use Soapee and enter the actual purity for the KOH. Set your superfat to whatever you want it to be. Enter your fat weights as usual. THe KOH that Soapee will calculate should be more accurate for this new recipe.


----------



## Susie

DeeAnna said:


> Keep track of the weights of the oil added per Susie's suggestion above. Then add that weight of added oil to your original recipe. Go to Soapee.com. Enter the fats from your revised recipe. Set the superfat to zero.
> 
> Now, set the KOH purity in Soapee to what you THINK the purity of the KOH is. Look at the KOH weight that Soapee has calculated. Is that the weight of KOH that you actually used? If not, change the KOH purity setting until Soapee gives you the weight of the KOH you really used.
> 
> When you get a match, then that purity is about what your KOH purity actually is. You will want to use this actual purity % in future recipes.
> 
> For a new recipe, use Soapee and enter the actual purity for the KOH. Set your superfat to whatever you want it to be. Enter your fat weights as usual. THe KOH that Soapee will calculate should be more accurate for this new recipe.



Thank you!  That's a much better way to explain it!  I left out a dozen steps when typing that. (In my defense, it was before coffee.)


----------



## DeeAnna

Oh -- I get it now. I thought you were suggesting to make new batches of soap with different purity settings! I'm set straight now on what you were thinking. Neverrrrr miiiiinnnd....


----------



## Susie

It generally is not wise for me to try to communicate before coffee.  I forgot that this morning.


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## lidia

Thank you Susie and DeeAnna.  I've been sick for a while and finally feel well enough to get back to this project.  My problem is that I don't know any longer if I get a zap or not.  I have not added any additional fats but there is no more separation.  The soap is almost hard, I could sort of roll it into shapes.  When I test for zap, I don't feel it at first, but feel tingling afterward, like 1 or 2 seconds after I try.  Is that a zap?  How else can I check if this soap is neutral?  Not sure if I need to add more oils or not...  :-?

Lidia

I have just added 0.7 ounce more of castor oil.  I heated it up and tried mixing in but this paste is so thick and dry, it's hard to actually mix it.  Can I add any water at this point?


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## Susie

lidia said:


> Thank you Susie and DeeAnna.  I've been sick for a while and finally feel well enough to get back to this project.  My problem is that I don't know any longer if I get a zap or not.  I have not added any additional fats but there is no more separation.  The soap is almost hard, I could sort of roll it into shapes.  When I test for zap, I don't feel it at first, but feel tingling afterward, like 1 or 2 seconds after I try.  Is that a zap?  How else can I check if this soap is neutral?  Not sure if I need to add more oils or not...  :-?
> 
> Lidia



No, zap is an immediate sharp jab of discomfort.  Not a slow burn.  Do not add more oils.  Begin dilution.



lidia said:


> I have just added 0.7 ounce more of castor oil.  I heated it up and tried mixing in but this paste is so thick and dry, it's hard to actually mix it.  Can I add any water at this point?



I would not have added castor oil unless it is water soluble castor oil.  Do begin dilution, but don't be surprised if you end up with some oil floating.  Just pour it into one of those "gravy separator" cups to let the castor oil float to the top, and pour the soap off from the bottom.  

Ease into dilution.  Add just half the weight of the paste in water to start with.  I would start with boiling water.  Just get that water in there before you go to bed, and put a lid on it.  Then see what you have in the morning.  I would then add 1/4 the first water amount to whatever lumps remain.  Then give it more time.  If you are impatient to use some of the soap, you can pour the diluted soap away from the lumps and use that.  It will not affect the outcome of the rest of the soap.


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## lidia

Ouch, so I already added more castor oil before reading this...  Doesn't pay to be impatient.  I first added 0.7 ounce, mixed as much as I could, heated up a little bit and waited a couple of hours (in the meantime made some cold process bar soap ;-)  The liquid soap paste looks very clear now.   I tested again and definitely felt strong tingling after touching the soap with my tongue.    Thus I added another 1.1 ounce castor oil (impatient, what can I say).  I tried soapee.com calculator and it looks like my soap is certainly at least 1% superfatted now, cause at 100% purity I'm getting tiny more KOH in the recipe than what I used with the same amounts of fat (7.85 KOH while I used 7.83).  I guess I'll need to borrow someone else's tongue next time for testing.  May be tough to find a volunteer...  ;-)

I'm not in a hurry with this soap at all.  I'll dilute some now (first time!) and see tomorrow how it looks.  This was supposed to be a bath soap, so I was trying to create a 2% superfat recipe.  Thank you so much Susie!

I have one more question: what is this tingling if it's not a zap?  I'm confused...


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## Susie

If you go get a 9 v battery, and touch both posts to your tongue at the same time, that is the zap of un-reacted lye.  The slow tingle is just you tasting the soap.  It took me a very long time to get my brain to stop feeling a zap where there was none.  How did I finally do it?  I got a real zap.  There was no longer any mistaking that the slow tingle is indicating an unsafe soap.


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## lidia

*Soap's done*

The soap is done and beautiful: https://youtu.be/VWS2BqjC9qA





I  somehow expected that this recipe would make more soap than just one  small jar.  Is it a soap concentrate and should I dilute it more?

Thank you once again Susie and Dee Anna!

Lidia


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