# Anyone have Hard water?



## whitetiger_0603 (Apr 14, 2013)

I can't maintain my bubbles for ****.   I finally got my Shea Butter Goat milk bubble bath to not look so ugly using a little Kaolin Clay.  It bubbles and foams great in the shower on a pouf..beyond great actually.  But when I pour it in the tub and run the water..it vanishes.  The water is left milky.  Which is kinda' cool considering it's a milk bath.  But it's supposed to be a bubble bath.   

Here's the recipe:
I used SBM calc for these numbers
Water- 25oz
Milk- 15oz
Lye- 15oz
Glycerine- 4oz

1Coconut Oil, 76 deg 35
Palm Oil 8
Castor Oil 6
Shea Butter 6
Olive Oil 5

 I used the Soap Calc for these numbers

Soap Bar Quality     Suggested Range     Your Recipe
Hardness                      29 - 54                 59
Cleansing                       12 - 22               39
Conditioning                    44 - 69                34           
Bubbly                           14 - 46                48 
          Creamy                          16 - 48               28 
         Iodine                            41 - 70                34
INS                             136 - 165               200


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## melstan775 (Apr 15, 2013)

Right. You're going to need a synthetic surfactant for bubble bath. All of the bubble bar recipes I have seen have some sort of sodium laurel based surfactant added to them. Without a surfactant you're not going to get a stable enough lather that actually gets huge AND sticks around because surfactans acts both as a foaming agent and bubble stabilizer. It's great it lathers on the pouf, but it's probably friction and the molecules of soap getting trapped in the pouf net that makes it bubble up - that's what a pouf is designed to do. But for big bubbles that stick around, you need a stabilizer. If there's a natural one that has the kind of power SLS does, I don't know about it.


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## whitetiger_0603 (Apr 15, 2013)

melstan775 said:


> Right. You're going to need a synthetic surfactant for bubble bath. All of the bubble bar recipes I have seen have some sort of sodium laurel based surfactant added to them. Without a surfactant you're not going to get a stable enough lather that actually gets huge AND sticks around because surfactans acts both as a foaming agent and bubble stabilizer. It's great it lathers on the pouf, but it's probably friction and the molecules of soap getting trapped in the pouf net that makes it bubble up - that's what a pouf is designed to do. But for big bubbles that stick around, you need a stabilizer. If there's a natural one that has the kind of power SLS does, I don't know about it.



The only things i know of that come close to being "natural' without being as harsh as SLS is Decyl Glucoside (Polyglucose) and Coco-Betaine.  I already threw in 16oz of Coco-Betaine and 3oz of Foaming Soy in my 7lb dilute batch and those didn't help. So I don't know how much more it would take. They are naturally derived from plant sugars and the like, but are still processed.  But they're not 100% synthetic.  Otherwise, I read in Failor's book to use Borax or Calgon.  I'm just wondering if anyone has had this issue and would like to know what they tried.


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## melstan775 (Apr 15, 2013)

The only other thing I can suggest is to use sodium laureth sulfate instead of sodium lauryl sulfate. the slight molecular difference between the two still gets the job done but is considered much more gentle.


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## whitetiger_0603 (Apr 17, 2013)

So after sitting on it for a while, I mixed some Borax in hot water..honestly can't say the amount..I eyeballed it.  Added the mix into the room temp soap bit by bit for a total of 24 ounces of water and still maintained a good viscosity.  Maybe a half cup of Borax. Next time I'll weigh it. It did seem to give things a boost in the bubbly department.  Dunno if it boosted the Coco-Betaine or the soap itself.  But still not the super results I'm looking for.  I'll have to buy some more C-B since i only added 16oz to the 8lb diluted batch.  That should do the trick.  Luckily I didn't need to neutralize before so this wasn't adding MORE Borax to the mix.


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## melstan775 (Apr 17, 2013)

Good! I'm glad youre finding something that is working for you. At least in the right direction!


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## Robert (Jun 30, 2013)

melstan775 said:


> It's great it lathers on the pouf, but it's probably friction and the molecules of soap getting trapped in the pouf net that makes it bubble up - that's what a pouf is designed to do.


The reason it lathers on the pouf is that the pouf doesn't hold much water.  Less water, less "hardness".  It's that simple.


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## Robert (Jun 30, 2013)

whitetiger_0603 said:


> The only things i know of that come close to being "natural' without being as harsh as SLS is Decyl Glucoside (Polyglucose) and Coco-Betaine.  I already threw in 16oz of Coco-Betaine and 3oz of Foaming Soy in my 7lb dilute batch and those didn't help. So I don't know how much more it would take. They are naturally derived from plant sugars and the like, but are still processed.  But they're not 100% synthetic.  Otherwise, I read in Failor's book to use Borax or Calgon.  I'm just wondering if anyone has had this issue and would like to know what they tried.


You're not going to like this answer, but...that coco-betaine and decyl polyglucose would suds your bath water if it weren't for the soap--so get rid of the soap!  Lime soap (the product of soap and water "hardness") is an excellent anti-foam.

Sure, you can use a water "softener" such as Calgon, but it might take a lot.  To find out how much, fill your bathtub with water to the usual depth for a bath, and mix in some soap -- not a lot, just enough to act as an indicator.  Then start alternately adding water softener and splashing until you start getting the suds to last (doesn't have to be a lot, just that the bubbles don't pop quickly).  That's how much you need per bath.  Probably a lot more than the soap you're using.  Of course you could model this with a smaller amount of water and do the math.  Also, many water softeners such as borax are alkaline and on that basis might not be so skin friendly in the amount that would be needed per bath, plus their very alkalinity (or if not, their saltiness) cuts down a little on soapsuds.


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