# Best woods  balsam / pine / Christmas tree fragrance



## Vicki C (Jul 3, 2022)

Hi all, I have a standing order with a local museum that gives away my soap at the end of their tours to every visitor. It’s a nice little gig and I made small cavity mold soaps (72 at a time) for this job. They want an evergreen fragrance, I have been using Woodland Themes from NDA, which is ok, but not perfect, and I think not really discernible in the final soap. I just tried Balsam Pine from WSP which is amazing and behaves perfectly (thanks @glendam) but it is so darned expensive. 🫤 Anybody have a recommendation for a reliable non-accelerating reasonably priced woodsy pine fragrance?  I’m not looking for that Michaels store smell with cinnamon etc. just a clean evergreen smell. In fact just like EB&B balsam pine. But cheaper.


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## KiwiMoose (Jul 3, 2022)

Maybe not what you are after but how about Lemon Eucalyptus EO?  It's strong, lasts well and not too expensive.  Maybe blend it with a pine or amyris?


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## dibbles (Jul 3, 2022)

Have you smelled Nurtures Winter Wonderland? It isn’t straight pine, but I’ve had people say it smells like Christmas. I love it year round. The IFRA changes lowered the usage rate by a lot and I haven’t tested it at the new rate yet, but it is strong and sticks well. I’ll go through my FOs and see what I have and will let you know if anything seems promising. Also, I took a tour of that museum and didn’t get soap


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## Vicki C (Jul 4, 2022)

dibbles said:


> Have you smelled Nurtures Winter Wonderland? It isn’t straight pine, but I’ve had people say it smells like Christmas. I love it year round. The IFRA changes lowered the usage rate by a lot and I haven’t tested it at the new rate yet, but it is strong and sticks well. I’ll go through my FOs and see what I have and will let you know if anything seems promising. Also, I took a tour of that museum and didn’t get soap


I love how winter wonderland smells - for me it accelerated, and I can’t risk it with the big batches I am making. Well, big to me - 4000 g oils.
And I’m sorry you missed out! I guess you’ll have to make another trip east.  They started this last fall and apparently it has been very popular!



KiwiMoose said:


> Maybe not what you are after but how about Lemon Eucalyptus EO?  It's strong, lasts well and not too expensive.  Maybe blend it with a pine or amyris?


That’s a thought - I have some evergreen EOs: balsam, juniper, cypress, but I feel like they don’t last in CP. I have cedar too which does last but isn’t what I’m after. and I do have amyris and I saw the other thread where it was discussed. Hmm what if I combined balsam & amyris?


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## KiwiMoose (Jul 4, 2022)

I do know that lemon eucalyptus holds really well, and you don't need much.


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## Ford (Jul 4, 2022)

guest size bars, given away at end of tours. MMM, some will be used. YAY! Some will be discarded. BOO! Quite a few will wind up is some obscure place. cubby of car, junk draw in house, kid's jean pocket, (after it's gone thru the wash). Point being Fo does not have to last forever like some other application. Have you checked out New York Scent, Nature's Garden?


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## Vicki C (Jul 4, 2022)

Ford said:


> guest size bars, given away at end of tours. MMM, some will be used. YAY! Some will be discarded. BOO! Quite a few will wind up is some obscure place. cubby of car, junk draw in house, kid's jean pocket, (after it's gone thru the wash). Point being Fo does not have to last forever like some other application. Have you checked out New York Scent, Nature's Garden?


Have not checked out NY scent, do they have an evergreen fragrance you would recommend? 
Of course, I can’t control what happens to the soap after they leave…


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## glendam (Jul 4, 2022)

Hi @Vicki C! I have been looking for a less expensive option as well!  I bought NDA’s Woodland theme as well, haven’t tried it in soap, but I agree it does not smell the same.  Same thing happened with Balsam from Natures garden, it does not smell the same but I haven’t tested it yet.  I did blend Balsam pine from WSP with honey FO once, and have mixed it with other notes as well, I can tell you that the balsam tends to overpower the other notes; so blending it with similar fragrances may work without being too expensive.


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## Mobjack Bay (Jul 4, 2022)

I haven’t used it lately, but I like Alpine from MMS.  It smells like Christmas to me, with a predominant scent of a fresh cut Christmas tree. A reviewer who used it in goat milk soap said it discolored to tan, while the blog page says no discoloration. I have an archived bar from Nov 2020 that was made with a blend of MMS Alpine and NS Juniper Sage (discontinued).  The soap discolored to light tan and at this point it smells nice, possibly a little cinnamon and berry-ish, but not especially woodsy.









						Fragrance Friday: Alpine — Adventures With The Sage
					

This fragrance is a blend like none other. The twist of frostbitten berries, a high mountain meadow, a snip of spice, and a lingering evergreen are all wrapped up into one. It’s the perfect scent for clearing the air at home or work. I even think this will be my new car smell. We have […]




					blog.thesage.com
				











						Alpine Fragrance Oil
					

This fragrance is a blend like none other. The twist of frostbitten berries, a high mountain meadow, a snip of spice, and a lingering evergreen are all wrapped up into one—the perfect scent for clearing the air at home or work. I even think this will be my new car smell. We have all sniffed and...




					www.thesage.com


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## LynetteO (Jul 4, 2022)

dibbles said:


> Have you smelled Nurtures Winter Wonderland? It isn’t straight pine, but I’ve had people say it smells like Christmas.


 I also have that FO & it is a strong FO that sticks in CP soap. It has a definite pine smell to it but as mentioned above, not  pine. Alpine Frost from Nurture Soap is also a “pine”ish FO. Not as strong & a tad less “chemical” smelling than Winter Wonderland from WSP & not as strong @ 3%PPO.


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## Obsidian (Jul 4, 2022)

I like natures garden balsam FO. Its a nice pine without the fake christmas tree smell. I really like it mixed with peppermint FO


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## TashaBird (Jul 4, 2022)

I love winter wonderland and for me it behaved really well, even in a pull through technique soap. I did not know about the new usage rates. @dibbles Is the new rate due to a new strength of FO?


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## SoapM0m (Jul 4, 2022)

FWIW, I know it's not exactly the same, but WSP's Apple Balsam Pine is *really* nice, and not *quite* as expensive.


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## dibbles (Jul 4, 2022)

TashaBird said:


> I love winter wonderland and for me it behaved really well, even in a pull through technique soap. I did not know about the new usage rates. @dibbles Is the new rate due to a new strength of FO?


It's due to the new IFRA usage rates, now 2.11%. I do love it and find it to be a strong FO, but I'm afraid 2% will be too light. I use the percentage as PPO. I might try it at 2% of total batch weight. If it still isn't strong enough, I don't sell and for personal use I will increase my usage rate. It's also a favorite of my son.


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## Vicki C (Jul 4, 2022)

TashaBird said:


> I love winter wonderland and for me it behaved really well, even in a pull through technique soap. I did not know about the new usage rates. @dibbles Is the new rate due to a new strength of FO?


I don’t know what happened - I had dreams of copying @glendam ’s beautiful slab Christmas trees and I had a total soap fail. I wish I had taken a photo just for the “Pinterest fail” chuckle.


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## dibbles (Jul 4, 2022)

@Vicki C Winter Wonderland does move things along a bit more quickly for me too - not unworkable by any means, but does slightly accelerate.


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## Vicki C (Jul 4, 2022)

Obsidian said:


> I like natures garden balsam FO. Its a nice pine without the fake christmas tree smell. I really like it mixed with peppermint FO


I just looked this up and realized… I bought this last fall! I was mixing it with woodland themes.  I did not take careful notes but I know I was having trouble with soda ash then, and I’m not now. But other factors have changed, like I used up some old palm that was giving me trouble. I should try it again.



dibbles said:


> @Vicki C Winter Wonderland does move things along a bit more quickly for me too - not unworkable by any means, but does slightly accelerate.


Here are my Christmas trees. Aren’t they lovely?


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## Saponificarian (Jul 4, 2022)

Love Frosted Fir from Brambleberry.


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## dibbles (Jul 4, 2022)

Vicki C said:


> Here are my Christmas trees. Aren’t they lovely?


You win - definitely more acceleration than I've had!


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## Mobjack Bay (Jul 4, 2022)

Vicki C said:


> Here are my Christmas trees. Aren’t they lovely?


The colors are pretty And I bet it smells great.


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## Vicki C (Jul 4, 2022)

Mobjack Bay said:


> The colors are pretty And I bet it smells great.


You’re kind… 

Okay team here is a summary of all your helpful input. Lmk if people have other thoughts. Last fall I was using 1/3 balsam from NG and 2/3  Woodland Themes but of course I don’t have good notes on results. I think the fragrance was satisfactory - the balsam bumped up the fragrance of the woodland themes.


Pine / balsam / woods fragrancesFragranceVendorNotesWoodland themesNDAWeakish to my noseBalsam pineWSPAmazing - priceyLemon eucalyptus EOBlend with pine or amyrisWinter wonderlandNurtureNice, accelerated for me new usage rates 2.11%BalsamNatures gardenGood fragrance. Ash? Bad note taking. Glenda says it has changed.NY ScentAlpineMMSMaybe discolors?Alpine FrostNurtureNot as strong as Winter Wonderland from WSPApple Balsam PineWSPLess expensive than balsam pine


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## dibbles (Jul 4, 2022)

I’ve been looking at Scent Memory latel, but haven’t tried any of the FOs yet. There are several that pop up on their site if you put pine in the search on their site. No soaping notes but @contrinokathy might be able to help. She was the one that I first saw mention this company and has tried quite a few of the FOs. You can join the FB group for soaping notes. I wish they were listed on the site. I can check for you too if you are curious about any of them.

Another one I have a small amount of but haven’t used yet is Woodland Elves from Bramble Berry. If it sounds good to you, I can test it.


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## Vicki C (Jul 4, 2022)

dibbles said:


> I’ve been looking at Scent Memory latel, but haven’t tried any of the FOs yet. There are several that pop up on their site if you put pine in the search on their site. No soaping notes but @contrinokathy might be able to help. She was the one that I first saw mention this company and has tried quite a few of the FOs. You can join the FB group for soaping notes. I wish they were listed on the site. I can check for you too if you are curious about any of them.
> 
> Another one I have a small amount of but haven’t used yet is Woodland Elves from Bramble Berry. If it sounds good to you, I can test it.


Oh, that’s right I saw their site too. Love the artwork. I’ll join the fb group. 
I was reading about woodland elves too. Some of the reviews say it accelerated, which won’t work for me with these big batches, the pouring takes too long. But, Brambleberry is having a 20% off sale right now.


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## dibbles (Jul 4, 2022)

Vicki C said:


> Oh, that’s right I saw their site too. Love the artwork. I’ll join the fb group.
> I was reading about woodland elves too. Some of the reviews say it accelerated, which won’t work for me with these big batches, the pouring takes too long. But, Brambleberry is having a 20% off sale right now.


I’ll try to do a small batch tomorrow. If you end up ordering from Bramble Berry anyway, I would also recommend Lingonberry Spice. It discolors to light tan, but behaves well. Not very pine/balsam, but there are some of those notes. It’s one that I will have in permanent supply. It’s lovely.

What oils do you use? I’ll try to test with what you use.

ETA: I just went to see how much Woodland Elves I have, and there is plenty. It smells so good OOB. It's fir/piney enough to make the museum happy (since that is what they want), but there is a lot more to it than just the wood/pine notes. Lingonberry spice has some background pine, but definitely not pronounced.


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## Vicki C (Jul 5, 2022)

Thank you! I actually put in an order with brambleberry for a few small bottles but the sale will be over by the time I try them. I went back and forth on the woodland elves, ended up not buying, but I did buy the lingonberry. Looks well liked by everyone. (But that might not be for the museum.)
I also bought some of the WSP balsam. I think I am going to mix it with Woodland Themes - it will be evergreen without being too Christmas-ee. With the free shipping it wasn’t as bad price-wise as I was thinking. So no rush on trying the woodland elves but if you do I’d love to hear what you think.


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## glendam (Jul 5, 2022)

@Vicki C would love to hear your results after you test those fragrances and the blend.  I usually wait for WSP sales (they had one a couple weeks ago) but with a standing order from the museum, I can see how that would not be a practical option.


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## dibbles (Jul 6, 2022)

@Vicki C I made a small batch with Woodland Elves. I used a slow tracing lard (35%) recipe because I know what to expect from it. The starting temp of the combined oil/lye solution was 89F. The batter stayed pretty fluid for a good five minutes. I was planning a mantra swirl and there was plenty of faffing about with math and batter splitting and color mixing.  The batter started to thicken, and continued to thicken and I couldn't do the intended design by the time I was ready to pour. There was definitely some plopping, but the batter never got to the point that it couldn't be swirled. So I wouldn't say it's as well behaved as the description, but it isn't terrible to work with either. Maybe not the one for your museum project. It does smell nice - it reminds me of Winter Wonderland actually. I just made a batch of WW, and I think it will be interesting to see how similar or not the two are in cured soap.


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## Vicki C (Jul 6, 2022)

dibbles said:


> @Vicki C I made a small batch with Woodland Elves. I used a slow tracing lard (35%) recipe because I know what to expect from it. The starting temp of the combined oil/lye solution was 89F. The batter stayed pretty fluid for a good five minutes. I was planning a mantra swirl and there was plenty of faffing about with math and batter splitting and color mixing.  The batter started to thicken, and continued to thicken and I couldn't do the intended design by the time I was ready to pour. There was definitely some plopping, but the batter never got to the point that it couldn't be swirled. So I wouldn't say it's as well behaved as the description, but it isn't terrible to work with either. Maybe not the one for your museum project. It does smell nice - it reminds me of Winter Wonderland actually. I just made a batch of WW, and I think it will be interesting to see how similar or not the two are in cured soap.


Thank you! Great info. Might be nice to get for a project that doesn’t require any faffing.  I am filling nine eight-cavity molds for each batch and I definitely need fluid batter.


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## contrinokathy (Jul 19, 2022)

Soaping notes for scent memory fragrances are found In the Facebook group. Many soaper are on the site. I myself have used nearly 20 of the fos for soap. The new one - trim the tree is a fabulous scent but I have not put it into soap yet. 
A few fragrances are being reformulated into soap friendly like mossy Forest path and angels share. I can help answer any questions you have


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## dibbles (Jul 19, 2022)

contrinokathy said:


> Soaping notes for scent memory fragrances are found In the Facebook group.


Is there a place in the FB group where all the soaping notes are? I've just been able to find information by searching individual FOs - I'm hoping for a better way.


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## contrinokathy (Jul 19, 2022)

Yes. The soaping notes are on the fb groups. There is a soap group and even posting will get a response. 
I have soaped with Black Forest, Palo santo, and so on. I do hot process but there was no discoloration or other problems 
I made Black Forest with cold process - no problems whatsoever


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## TashaBird (Jul 19, 2022)

Did they change the formula for Winter Wonderland for it to have such a drastically reduced usage rate? Is it more concentrated now? I loved it at the previous strength! And, they were very popular!!


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## Zany_in_CO (Jul 19, 2022)

Vicki C said:


> Anybody have a recommendation for a reliable non-accelerating reasonably priced woodsy pine fragrance? I’m not looking for that Michaels store smell with cinnamon etc. just a clean evergreen smell. In fact just like EB&B balsam pine. But cheaper.


*TRIM THE TREE* by a new kid on the block, *Scent Memory Fragrance*.


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## dibbles (Jul 19, 2022)

TashaBird said:


> Did they change the formula for Winter Wonderland for it to have such a drastically reduced usage rate? Is it more concentrated now? I loved it at the previous strength! And, they were very popular!!


IFRA guidelines changed, not the FO formula. I love that one too. It's pretty strong, but I haven't used it at the lower rate yet.



contrinokathy said:


> Yes. The soaping notes are on the fb groups. There is a soap group and even posting will get a response.
> I have soaped with Black Forest, Palo santo, and so on. I do hot process but there was no discoloration or other problems
> I made Black Forest with cold process - no problems whatsoever


Where though? Just individual random posts? Or is there a files section or something in the group I'm just not seeing.


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## contrinokathy (Jul 20, 2022)

There is a file but it is sometimes hard to keep up with the soaping notes. If you don’t find the fragrance your interested in the searching the main and soaping site is best. Some are very new - like trim the tree. So may not be available.


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## Carly B (Aug 16, 2022)

contrinokathy said:


> There is a file but it is sometimes hard to keep up with the soaping notes. If you don’t find the fragrance your interested in the searching the main and soaping site is best. Some are very new - like trim the tree. So may not be available.



Is there anywhere else that has the soaping notes?  I'm not, and never have been on FB (or any social media, for that matter, unless this forum counts as social media), so I can't get to them. 
I'm interested, as I just placed my first order, but not interested enough to join FB.....

ETA: Whoops.  I thought this was in the Scent Memory thread.  Sorry....


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## contrinokathy (Aug 16, 2022)

Carly B said:


> Is there anywhere else that has the soaping notes?  I'm not, and never have been on FB (or any social media, for that matter, unless this forum counts as social media), so I can't get to them.
> I'm interested, as I just placed my first order, but not interested enough to join FB.....
> 
> ETA: Whoops.  I thought this was in the Scent Memory thread.  Sorry....


Facebook is the only place where the soaping notes are. Sorry. If you have any questions about specific fos you can ask me.


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## Carly B (Aug 16, 2022)

contrinokathy said:


> Facebook is the only place where the soaping notes are. Sorry. If you have any questions about specific fos you can ask me.


Thanks.  I'll put what I ordered in a post on the Scent Memory thread.


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