# Laundry soap



## Neve (Jan 2, 2015)

I'm finally getting around to making my 100% CO soap to make laundry soap. I also want to cut some to use as stain sticks.

I know it's common to have 0% superfat but I'm wondering if I should use perhaps 2% for two reasons: One, because the stain stick is held in my hands to rub directly on baby poop stained items and two, because I will be washing baby stuff in the new laundry soap - the more delicate things get washed by hand (so again, my hands are in contact with the soap) but I do throw baby blankets and some clothing into the machine.

I don't think I like the idea of any lye left in the soap because it's not for washing regular things.  But I'm also not sure if a little superfat will affect the cleaning performance. Right now I use an unscented liquid detergent and it's very gentle. I would like my home made version to be gentle too, otherwise I really should keep buying the liquid one. Figured in the long run the home made variety would be cheaper.


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## Obsidian (Jan 2, 2015)

0% SF shouldn't have any lye left in the soap, it just won't have any excess oils. That being said, I don't see why a 1%-2% SF wouldn't work for laundry soap.


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## Neve (Jan 2, 2015)

It shouldn't in theory but how accurate is a standard kitchen scale? I'm very accurate with measuring but the scale only goes to the nearest gram.


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## Seawolfe (Jan 3, 2015)

I do 0.5% SF and a nice long cure


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## Susie (Jan 3, 2015)

I would not use any superfat.  You don't want oils left on the cloth(or on the interior of your washer or dryer).  My scale weighs grams and tenths of ounces.  It works fine.  Just don't use a postal scale, as it is intended to weigh a static weight package, not weighing something you are adding to.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jan 3, 2015)

I agree that 0% or 0.5% at the very most, but coupled with a long cure for safety. Remember that a pure co soap with next to no sf might feel like it is lye heavy just from being so very drying


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## Ruthie (Jan 3, 2015)

I made mine with 1% SF because I knew the soap calculator, my scales, and the quality of the oil could be a bit off. I have been pleased with the results.  That being said, I made mine with 100% lard.  But I do not think that would make a difference.


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## Neve (Jan 6, 2015)

What would you consider to be a long cure? I'll have to go buy another liquid detergent for now I guess. I still haven't found time to make this soap.


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## Susie (Jan 6, 2015)

If you have some KOH, you can make some liquid laundry soap that you can use today.  The 100% CO one with 0% superfat will be fine.  Won't work for making a stain stick, but you can use a bit of undiluted paste to rub on stains.  I keep a tube(I put them in half ounce tubes so I can dispense it easier) in the bathroom so I can pre-treat stains when I change clothes.


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## Rowan (Jan 6, 2015)

I make a 50 percent coconut and 50 percent lard or tallow laundry soap/stain stick, with 0.5 superfat.  It works well on stains. Ironically it's very kind to my skin too. I use it regularly to clean the house and don't find it drying at all and I usually do with high coconut percentages.  It doesn't leave any residue. I've never tried it on nappies as I wasn't making soap at the time. Liquid soap does sound the way to go if you need something immediately, as this did need a good cure.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 6, 2015)

And keep in mind that online soap calcs like SoapCalc are based on NaOH being 100% pure. Since most soapers use NaOH that is not 100% pure, the calcs inadvertently build in a few percent of "hidden" superfat even if you set the recipe superfat to zero. Check with your supplier to see if they can provide an approximate purity. And every time you open the lye container to let fresh air in, you're lowering the purity by another small but definite amount.

On top of that, Kevin Dunn has done experiments with -5% superfat (aka 5% lye heavy). When he tested the soap 11 weeks after the soap was made, the excess lye had dissipated. I (and others) made soap with up to -40% superfat (aka 40% lye heavy) early in 2014. My two batches were certainly lye heavy at first, but they were fine after 8-10 weeks of cure. I use this soap in the shower pretty much every day and it is not at all drying or harsh.

I guess what I'm trying to say is ... don't be afraid of zero superfat soap.


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## Neve (Jan 7, 2015)

Ok thanks all! 0% it is.


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## AF_SOAP (Jan 7, 2015)

I do -5% and never have an issue with excess lye.  It goes away eventually.  I still use %100 tallow for stain sticks and 50-50 tallow, CO for laundry soap.


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## biarine (Jan 8, 2015)

I used 0% but I use Hot Process and I do zap test. I let them harden for a 1 month or less. But I make a lot of bar so I let them cure for months. Even I use the bar to clean my dishes and I love them it's still moisturising even though I use  0%.


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## Neve (Jan 9, 2015)

Well I made it at 0% and it's hard as a rock and now in the cupboard to cure. In the meantime I'll have to grab another bottle of liquid laundry detergent. Well it's a start. I bought the Borax and washing powder stuff months ago!


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## biarine (Jan 9, 2015)

@neve you use all coconut oil or you use another oil too.


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## janzo (Jan 9, 2015)

Sorry to show my ignorance, but what exactly do you mean by laundry soap.  Is it bars of soap you use to wash clothes etc with or do you grate it and make it into liquid detergent.  The reason I ask is I am wondering how to make soap powder for the washing machine.  Please educate me!,


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jan 9, 2015)

Aye, you make a bar soap (usually pure CO) and grate it up.  It is mixed with washing soda and (in the US) borax and then used as normal.  I add about 15 drops of lavender EO in to the drawer before I put the wash on, too.  Oh, I also add in a bit of baking powder.


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## janzo (Jan 9, 2015)

Thank you EG, have never seen that in the shops here, will have to check around the chemical companies.   I only use cold water in my machine will the grated soap etc work ok in that or more optimal in warm water?


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## AF_SOAP (Jan 9, 2015)

If its fine enough you can use cold water


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## janzo (Jan 9, 2015)

Thank you AF Soap


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## Seawolfe (Jan 9, 2015)

Here is a good thread on laundry soap janzo - both dry and liquid


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## DeeAnna (Jan 9, 2015)

"...Well I made it at 0% and it's hard as a rock and now in the cupboard to cure...."

Neve -- If you're wanting to make a dry powder laundry soap, I'd grate the soap NOW while it is as fresh as possible. If you let it dry out, even for a few days, it will be a serious chore if you're grating by hand.

If you also want to turn the soap into a fine, faster-dissolving powder (best for cold water loads or HE machines), you also want to work with fresh soap for the best results. I don't know how to manage this if working only with hand tools -- I use a food processor. First, I grate all of the soap with the grating blade. I do small batches so the soap doesn't pack into the processor bowl. I want the soap in the bowl to stay as loose, fluffy, and cool as possible. I spread the grated soap into a large pan as I work, so it can cool off more and remain loose and fluffy.

When all is grated, I switch over to the sharp chopping/mixing blade. For every batch, I put a handful of grated soap and a handful of one of your powders (the washing soda, for example) into the processor bowl and process until the whole thing is a fairly fine powder. The largest particles should be no more than about 1/16" (1 mm) across. I process about 30-40 seconds per batch.

Tip: If the soap mixture starts to get too warm in the processor bowl, it will clump up, not break down. To solve that problem, use less soap and more powder per batch. The soap must stay loose and powdery to break down properly.

Tip: Don't make the batches too large or the processor won't break the soap up fine enough. (Found that out the hard way.)


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## janzo (Jan 9, 2015)

Thank you Seawolfe and Deeanna, very helpful information.


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## cdmusic68 (Jan 23, 2015)

Just a tip... There is debate over the safety of borax, so I don't really like to use it.  I DO use the BABY oxi-clean instead, because it is just sodium carbonate (washing soda) 
and sodium carbonate peroxide.  

So my laundry recipe looks like this:

4 parts grated soap - whatever I am using at the moment 
2 part washing soda
1 part baby oxi clean
1 part baking soda


It works for us!


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## biarine (Jan 23, 2015)

This is my powder and whipped laundry soap made with 100% coconut oil soap


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## Neve (Jan 30, 2015)

Unfortunately I don't have a food processor and I'm trying to grate it by hand and it's taking forever  I am wondering if all this effort is even worth it. 

I've grated two blocks and it doesn't seen to have made very much. I can only do a little at a time. I didn't have a chance to do it when the soap was fresh.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 30, 2015)

I'm afraid the best time to grate laundry soap is pretty much the day after you make it. I don't know if you saw my post on 1/9 with caution about this issue.

I made the mistake of waiting 3 days and paid for waiting only that long. After almost 4 weeks of cure ... yep, it's going to be awfully difficult to grate. I don't have a good solution for this particular batch, but maybe others will chime in. Next batch ... save yourself a lot of grief and don't wait!  I understand about time crunches myself, but I don't know of a way to get around this issue other than do the grating when the time is right.


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## Dahila (Jan 30, 2015)

this ^^^ is what I do, crate the soap two days after making it, then mix with borax and washing soda, I have a front loader.  Before I add it to washer I dissolve in a bit of hot water with the milk frother.  I am using it for over two years.  Some  vinegar as fabric softener


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## kchaystack (Jan 30, 2015)

If you are in the US, I would hit up your local thrift store and look for a salad shooter or a food processor.  I have seen the salad shooters for $5.


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## Susie (Jan 30, 2015)

Neve- If you live in the US, thrift stores often have "Salad Shooters" for sale for just a little bit.  $1-$2 at mine.  They grate soap just fine.  I picked one up the last time I was in town, and grated some ugly soap up to give me something to kick start liquid soap.  Works better than the food processor for grating IMHO.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 30, 2015)

I knew y'all would come through with good ideas!

I haven't tried a salad shooter for grating, but I do grate the soap first, then turn it into a fine powder. I'm not sure what I'd use to break the soap into a powder except for a food processor or possibly a blender. Don't think a salad shooter would go there.


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## Neve (Jan 30, 2015)

Unfortunately I missed the post about grating fresh cos I didn't log in for a week or so  I saw it last week and started grating but it was too late. 

No I don't live in the US we only have one thrift store and it's not very big. 

So yeah it's all very painful and I'm not sure how many loads I will get from 2lb of soap?


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## DeeAnna (Jan 30, 2015)

About 2 tablespoons of mix weighs about 25 grams, and that's plenty enough for one light to moderately dirty load. My recipe makes 2000 grams of soap mix (1000 g of actual soap, 1000 g of washing soda), so it will do 80 loads. For my 2-person household, that's, oh, maybe about 4 months of laundry. Other people include borax and/or baking soda in their laundry mix and that gives you even more loads per batch of soap.


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## Dahila (Jan 30, 2015)

3 pounds of oils gave me enough soap with addition of washing soda (2 c of soap, 1 cup of washing soda, 1 c of borax, and a1/2c of oxiclean) gave me enough for probably a year (2 people) 
it is the cheapest possible and very good detergent)


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## DeeAnna (Jan 31, 2015)

I used to make my laundry soap w borax and such as well as washing soda. After doing some research, I decided to try a 50:50 washing soda and soap version to see how that did. I add oxyclean separately as needed. I think I'm getting a little better results -- whites seem to be whiter anyways -- but I have the rest of this batch to use up before I decide for sure.


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## Dahila (Jan 31, 2015)

I thought about eliminating borax but I do have hard water in my city and front loader.  but I could try your way DeeAnna ,  it is always a pleasure to read your posts 
I bet , when my son visit me he will take half of my detergent  When he uses that and home made soaps his eczema seems no to bother him so much


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## DeeAnna (Feb 1, 2015)

Other recent threads on using sodium citrate in soap for hard water are making me think about other options to borax. Maybe we should look more into about using sodium citrate or other chelators when making laundry soap -- in addition to or in place of borax. People who use commercial soaps in their laundry soap mixes don't have the option to use sodium citrate, etc., but we soapmakers do. 

My water is softened, so I don't have as much problem with hard water scum as others do, so that's a difference between my situation and yours.


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## Neve (Feb 6, 2015)

I am please to report that a tiny chunk of this soap did an amazing job on baby poop that a commercial bar wasn't getting off. Hand washing in the sink. 

I started using the grated soap with washing soda for other three loads of laundry. I haven't inspected them but I think they will be good too. I'll check for poop marks tomorrow.


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## Susie (Feb 6, 2015)

I used the food processor with the grating blade with good results.  I used it on well cured soaps that I put into the freezer for an hour or so before grating


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## Earthen_Step (Feb 6, 2015)

I've read of people using citric acid mixed in with Borax and/or Baking soda with soap.  Have any of you done so and is it worth doing?  From what I have gathered it seems more worth it to make a fabric softener with citric acid.

I'm going to try and make a laundry soap soon and appreciate this thread, thanks to you all.


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## Dahila (Feb 6, 2015)

would CO soap with 0 % superfat and addition of CA make a difference?


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## AF_SOAP (Feb 6, 2015)

Citric acid would bring towards an acid on the pH scale.  I think you would want more of a base to clean


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## DeeAnna (Feb 6, 2015)

You're thinking about soap in an overly simplistic way. Soap acts as a buffer, meaning the addition of an acid to soap does not result in a direct lowering of pH. Things are happening to soap when acid is added ... that is a very true statement ... but a change in pH is not one of those happenings. As long as the soap is still mostly soap, adding an acid just splits the soap into fatty acids; it does not reduce the pH. 

An analogy is melting ice -- the temp of an ice and water mixture will stay at 32 deg F (0 C) until all of the ice is melted. Until all of the the ice is melted, the temperature of the mixture will not rise. Only after all of the ice is melted can the temp rise.

Borax and baking soda are alkaline salts. Soap is an alkaline salt. Citric acid is an acid. Mixing citric acid with one or more of these alkaline salts will cause the salts to dissociate (break apart). Citric acid added to soap will create sodium citrate and fatty acids. The sodium citrate is not all bad -- it helps with soap scum if you have hard water -- but better to add sufficient lye to react with the citric acid directly, rather than allow the citric to mess your soap up. Or you can add sodium citrate directly as an additive if you have it on hand.

CITRIC ACID in Soap
Citric acid and Sodium hydroxide (NaOH) make Sodium citrate in soap
Typical dosage: 10 g citric acid for every 1,000 g oils (1% ppo). Range 0.1% to 3%.
10 g citric acid neutralizes 6.24 g NaOH
10 g citric acid neutralizes 8.42 g KOH

SODIUM CITRATE in soap
If dosage rate for citric acid is 1%, the equivalent dosage for sodium citrate is 1.3%


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## girlishcharm2004 (Feb 7, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> An analogy is melting ice -- the temp of an ice and water mixture will stay at 32 deg F (0 C) until all of the ice is melted. Until all of the the ice is melted, the temperature of the mixture will not rise. Only after all of the ice is melted can the temp rise.



Most people I've met don't know that about ice water! I should've known you would.


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## Earthen_Step (Feb 7, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> You're thinking about soap in an overly simplistic way...



So what if the Citric Acid is added to a powdered blend of soap, borax and/or baking soda.  Does that help remove the scum buildup and help clean laundry or create a more gentle washing overall?  Would it be just as good or better to make a "fabric softener" with the citric acid?


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## Dahila (Feb 7, 2015)

No, no,  I thought about adding it to soap when making it.   I mean laundry soap.  Not to mix with  powdered soap,  I do not see the reason what it would do in powdered form.   A week ago I made my first soap with CA adding an extra 8.5 g o lye (1400 g of oils) it is curing........we will see'
I wonder if CA can cause soap to set longer?


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## Earthen_Step (Feb 7, 2015)

Dahila said:


> No, no,  I thought about adding it to soap when making it.   I mean laundry soap.  Not to mix with  powdered soap,  I do not see the reason what it would do in powdered form.   A week ago I made my first soap with CA adding an extra 8.5 g o lye (1400 g of oils) it is curing........we will see'
> I wonder if CA can cause soap to set longer?


 
I've found a lot of recipes that include Citric Acid.  Has anyone tried it or does anyone know why or why not it should be used?  In my mind it seems like putting it in as a water solution fabric softener it would do just as good if not better.  Am I wrong?  I don't know enough about it.

Examples:
Ingredients:

1 5oz. bar castile soap, grated finely
1 c. washing soda
1/2 c. baking soda
1/2 c. citric acid
1/4 c. coarse sea salt

Directions:

Mix ingredients thoroughly. Store in airtight container.

To use:

Add 1-2 Tbs. of detergent to each load.
Recipe from here -- http://www.thankyourbody.com/diy-borax-free-laundry-detergent/

And many more:
http://www.thankyourbody.com/all-natural-diy-borax-free-dish-detergent/ (dish soap)
http://www.overthrowmartha.com/2014/03/how-to-make-borax-free-laundry-detergent.html
http://senselesshousewife.blogspot.com/2009/01/laundry-soap-research.html
http://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/home-crafts/three-diy-laundry-soap-recipes/
http://www.practicallyfunctional.com/homemade-borax-free-laundry-soap/
http://www.easy-home-made.com/homemade-laundry-soap.html
http://www.anniesplacetolearn.com/blog/diy-laundry-detergent


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## blissfarmnaturals (Mar 18, 2015)

If you hot process the laundry soap, how long should it cure?


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## Susie (Mar 18, 2015)

Citric acid is used for chelation for hard water, I think, in this context.  Looks like it to me, anyway.  If it was used afterward in the rinse, I would say it is to balance out the pH after the wash.  I have soft water, and use white vinegar in a Downy ball for that.  

blissfarmnaturals-I think folks grate CP and use it as soon as it is hard enough to unmold and cut.  I would not, though, unless you zap test the CP, as this should be a 0% superfat soap and could still have some saponification to do until 48 hours has passed from the pour.  Since you are doing HP, just check for zap before grating, and you should be fine as soon as you can unmold it.


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## Seawolfe (Mar 18, 2015)

blissfarmnaturals said:


> If you hot process the laundry soap, how long should it cure?


I've used it as soon as I unmolded, zap tested and grated it - within a week.

I have hard water, yet my basic CO oil soap with washing soda and borax works well. Although I do add vinegar to my rinse (where the fabric softener goes). Ive been afraid to add citric acid for fear of effectively upping the superfat.


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## biarine (Mar 18, 2015)

Mine I used hot process but I  still cured my laundry soap for  2-4 weeks. I have one batch, I made it 6 months ago. I keep the soap in cat food boxes  ( recycle )


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## DeeAnna (Mar 19, 2015)

Seawolfe -- Citric acid added as an after-wash rinse would work fine -- just like your vinegar -- but you are definitely right that citric acid added to your soap mix would cause problems.

I haven't researched it thoroughly, but my guess, if you wanted to use citric in your rinse rather than vinegar, you'd use about 1 gram of powdered citric acid to replace 1 ounce (about 30 g) of commercial vinegar at 5% acidity. 

For the citric I have on hand (a fine powder), a level 1/4 teaspoon weighs about 1 gram. If your citric acid is granular or flaked, you'll want to double check that this conversion from weight (grams) to volume (teaspoons) is correct for your product. 

If you use 1/2 cup vinegar (4 ounces) in your rinse, you'd sub 1 teaspoon of citric acid powder in the rinse compartment. It dissolves very easily in water.


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## Dahila (Mar 23, 2015)

Thanks Deeanna, I use it exactly as seawolfe, Vinegar in rinse. I use it for over two years already) It is good you could exchange it for citric acid when you are short of vinegar. Thank you


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## dosco (Mar 23, 2015)

Susie said:


> Citric acid is used for chelation for hard water, I think, in this context.  Looks like it to me, anyway.  If it was used afterward in the rinse, I would say it is to balance out the pH after the wash.  I have soft water, and use white vinegar in a Downy ball for that.



I am under the impression, after reading a bit on this site, that including the citric acid in the oils before saponification is to yield sodium citrate which is the chelator (?).

In a "soap" where citric acid has been added after the soap has been saponified, I'm not sure ... like you said, maybe pH reduction in the wash?

-Dave


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## Dahila (Mar 23, 2015)

I am adding CA to cp soap to cut down on the soap scum


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Mar 23, 2015)

Last night I put a wash on, with some CA in the rinse tray.  Will update on what difference I can see/feel when I get home.


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## Susie (Mar 23, 2015)

dosco said:


> I am under the impression, after reading a bit on this site, that including the citric acid in the oils before saponification is to yield sodium citrate which is the chelator (?).
> 
> In a "soap" where citric acid has been added after the soap has been saponified, I'm not sure ... like you said, maybe pH reduction in the wash?
> 
> -Dave



Adding citric acid to the oils before it becomes soap changes the pH and the superfat of your soap.  This is not always desirable in laundry soap.  You need to use DeeAnna's formula(post #44 of this thread) to do that.


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## dosco (Mar 23, 2015)

Susie said:


> Adding citric acid to the oils before it becomes soap changes the pH and the superfat of your soap.  This is not always desirable in laundry soap.  You need to use DeeAnna's formula(post #44 of this thread) to do that.



She explained it in a different post on another thread.

If you add the CA and enough lye to "neutralize" it, you can still have the soap superfatted (or not) the way you want it to be. Also I inferred from her post that if you add extra lye to neutralize the CA that the resulting soap will have a "normal pH" but wil have an extra salt in the finished product - sodium citrate.

-Dave


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## Neve (Mar 29, 2015)

The laundry soap is going great by the way. Hubby ended up grating most of it. 

My eucalyptus stain laundry bar mysteriously disappeared after one use. Luckily I had a second one in the cupboard but I would sure like the first one to show up. It works extremely well. 

I might make more, I have to use up my lye solution before I move house.


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