# Selling Soap



## SoapSap (Sep 28, 2014)

I have been soap-making for nearly a year and am gradually acquiring more skills and equipment. I am hooked on making soap and enjoy exploring and learning the seemingly endless possibilities for making beautiful custom soap. 

My interest in soap-making is on the hobby level. I am not interested in developing it into a business. However, I make a lot of soap and therefore gift it to everyone I know and many people I don't know. Recently I have donated soap to the local women's shelter and the county food shelf. I will continue to make those donations because they need it and seem to really appreciate getting it. 

My soap-making has become an expensive hobby and at some point I need to sell some soap to at least partly support "my soap habit". 

I am going to try to sell next summer at the local flea market. And maybe I will occasionally sell at a craft show. I will price fairly and competitively as not to undermine the Artisans that sell as a business. 

I would like to hear if there are any other soap-makers on this forum who share my situation. And have you found it necessary to buy insurance, or do any of the other things I have read business sellers do?  I understand the importance of insurance, business plans, etc. if I am striving to make a successful business.  But, I don't see how it is necessary for a person like me who just wants to help defray some of the expenses of making soap. 

Your comments will be appreciated.


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## jules92207 (Sep 28, 2014)

I would say I am starting to THINK about what it will take to move into selling. I am not quite at a year yet for soaping though, I know I still have lots to learn, but I am starting to research what it will take to move from hobbyist to seller. So while I have no answers for you I can appreciate your questions and will be following the discussion.


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## CiCi (Sep 28, 2014)

Hi SoapSap. Check with your city codes. As far as I am aware, the city considers you a business anytime you start to sell your product and requires you to be licensed. The state will require you to obtain a reseller's permit so that you can pay sales tax. You would need to do all of the things that is required to operate the business and having insurance would be very, very wise. Actually, you can be held liable even if you give your soap away to someone and it causes them harm. I know it certainly sounds like a PIA just for wanting to stay small and recoup your costs, but that is what they require and you really do want to protect yourself. Good luck with everything.


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## wetshavingproducts (Sep 28, 2014)

CiCi said:


> Actually, you can be held liable even if you give your soap away to someone and it causes them harm.



Only under a negligence theory and your homeowner's insurance should cover you for that. Not so much if you sold it for a profit. Check with a lawyer for applicable local laws. This is not legal advice.


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## CiCi (Sep 28, 2014)

wetshavingproducts said:


> Only under a negligence theory and your homeowner's insurance should cover you for that. Not so much if you sold it for a profit. Check with a lawyer for applicable local laws. This is not legal advice.



A person can sue you for anything, whether it was due to negligence, or not. It would be wise for each person to contact their insurer to to see if have that coverage in their policy. Each city, state, country may be different. And, yes, if they have legal questions, they should contact their attorney for advice and fact finding.


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## CiCi (Sep 28, 2014)

This is not legal advice, it is simply an article I found. I have seen a  number of articles, in the past, with this same type of info given and for me, I  decided not to give away my products because of what I read... except to my immediate family.  Here is the URL and what I am quoting:

http://www.modernsoapmaking.com/absolutely-need-insurance-sell-single-bar-soap/


*"Do I still need insurance if I don’t sell my soap?*

 A million times over, yes.
 If anyone besides you uses your soap or lotions, etc., you need  product liability insurance. Even if a consumer does not purchase a  product from you, they can and will hold you liable for the product.
 Let’s say you give your Aunt Jemma ten bars of soap because she  totally loves it. And then she gushes to her co-workers, and Susan asks  Aunt Jemma if she can try a bar. Wanting to share the love, Aunt Jemma  gives Susan a bar of your fabulous soap, and then Susan has a strong  reaction to it. Susan has to go to a doctor, and racks up some medical  bills, and finds out it’s because she’s allergic to coconut oil. Guess  who she’s going to go after to pay her medical bills?"


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## LuckyStar (Sep 28, 2014)

CiCi said:


> This is not legal advice, it is simply an article I found. I have seen a  number of articles, in the past, with this same type of info given and for me, I  decided not to give away my products because of what I read... except to my immediate family.  Here is the URL and what I am quoting:
> 
> http://www.modernsoapmaking.com/absolutely-need-insurance-sell-single-bar-soap/
> 
> ...



I agree with the notion of insurance before selling to anyone, but to get insurance before _giving_ soap to family and friends when you have no business is just too paranoid for me. It would be like a grandmother getting insurance before baking Christmas cookies or making dinner guests sign a waiver before serving them.  

Maybe its just my small town large family mindset where everyone gives everyone home made everything or maybe people are just less sue happy in Canada. I just couldn't fathom getting insurance to let me give gifts to people I love.


Back to selling though, all the above posters are right, you need to cross all your Ts and dot your is. Aside from insurance there's also laws on labeling, zoning , where you can and cant sell your product, claims you can or cant make about your product(you cant claim soap does anything but cleans in Canada for example).  I understand the divide between being a hobby seller and a full blown business and there will be differences on which hurdles you have to go over based on how much you produce/sell, but you do _need_ to check up on all these things. Even if you don't get sued by a customer, you could easily be fined by your city for something as simple as making your product in the wrong room of your home.


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## snappyllama (Sep 28, 2014)

I'm inclined to agree with LuckyStar.  I give food to friends/family/coworkers all the time.  I suppose I could be liable if I sicken someone, but that fear isn't enough to stop me from foisting cookies on them.  

From the example of someone regifting, wouldn't the regifter technically be liable?  I have no clue... just curious.

Selling is a different matter entirely.  I would want to have insurance before selling anything (even to friends).


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## CiCi (Sep 28, 2014)

LuckyStar said:


> I agree with the notion of insurance before selling to anyone, but to get insurance before _giving_ soap to family and friends when you have no business is just too paranoid for me.



I so agree with you. I felt the same way, but I thought I would rather be safe than sorry. As litigious as this society is, we can't be too careful. It's just to each person's preference as to the chance they want to take.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Sep 29, 2014)

The answer is yes, you do need to do a lot of what a business does - after all, if you are selling to help offset the costs then you actually need to sell soap so you need some sort of plan. 

But a general question - if it is a hobby, regardless of how expensive, why should you recoup money spent on it? If a golfer buys a set of clubs for $2,000 and pays a yearly fee to nice club of $1,000 he doesn't start planning on going in to competitions to make money back. He plays golf because he enjoys it and considers the money well spent as it is for his enjoyment. It is the same with so many hobbies that you can think of. 

So why do soapers feel the need to sell? It's not a need - if it's a hobby and you can't afford to do it too often, don't do it too often! If you want to soap a lot and sell it, then it's not a hobby.


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## new12soap (Sep 29, 2014)

Quoted from the same article:

*But I have homeowner’s insurance and it works just fine*.
_To be honest, it probably doesn’t! In most cases, this is a general liability insurance and not a specific product liability insurance policy that directly covers the manufacture and sale of soap and cosmetics._

AFAIK homeowner's insurance will not cover you. Check with your agent or your policy.


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## shunt2011 (Sep 29, 2014)

You need insurance and your homeowners will likely not cover you.   There are very few that have been able to get coverage from their homeowners. If you sell anything you need to have the proper documentation (tax id, insurance and anything else your city/state may require).  I don't conisder it an option.


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## pamielynn (Sep 29, 2014)

I agree with the Gentleman that selling soap as a hobby isn't the best way to "recoup" your expenses. No matter which hobby you pick (cookies, cupcakes, quilting) everyone always tells you to go into business, whether you are ready or not. It is not best to rely on the opinion of friends and family. You could have the best soap ever and, to me anyway, it is best not to start selling unless you really want to be in business.

Most "crafty" people stink at the business side of this adventure. And it's not easy. If you want to start charging what you need to in order to get your money back, you need to build a reputation - you can't just show up at one or two markets a year and expect people to want to buy your stuff. You'll bring in a few bucks at a show, but what do you do for money the rest of the time? Soapmaking can get very expensive - it's not just like buying a roll of wire ribbon and making a wreath. Plus, competition is getting fierce out there.

I personally won't tell you no - you've got to experience it yourself. But, remember, even if you were "just selling cookies", there are rules and responsibilities to that venture as well. Many counties won't even let you do it. So, just check out what's involved with manufacturing and selling in your area and go from there.

ETA: seeing the two posts above me about insurance - they are correct: most homeowner's insurance will NOT cover a hobby or a business and the second they find out that you are selling anything, all of that is your loss. Plus, god forbid they find out about the lye! 
And insurance is not just in case somebody sues you. What if you have a car accident on the way to a show and lose all your stock? Or it downpours at a show and you lose all your stock? And liability is not just product liability, it is also "slip 'n fall - which happens more often. Homeowners will NOT cover any of that.


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## snappyllama (Sep 29, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> He plays golf because he enjoys it and considers the money well spent as it is for his enjoyment. It is the same with so many hobbies that you can think of.



Thanks for future argument validations for my hobby!  Do you take requests for other types of marital debates?  Sometimes I forget something from the grocery list,  take too long in the shower, bogart the remote control, or beg out on making dinner when it's my turn.  Suggestions?  

Seriously though, I agree with your entire point about hobby <> need to recoup money.


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## goji_fries (Sep 29, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> The answer is yes, you do need to do a lot of what a business does - after all, if you are selling to help offset the costs then you actually need to sell soap so you need some sort of plan.
> 
> But a general question - if it is a hobby, regardless of how expensive, why should you recoup money spent on it? If a golfer buys a set of clubs for $2,000 and pays a yearly fee to nice club of $1,000 he doesn't start planning on going in to competitions to make money back. He plays golf because he enjoys it and considers the money well spent as it is for his enjoyment. It is the same with so many hobbies that you can think of.
> 
> So why do soapers feel the need to sell? It's not a need - if it's a hobby and you can't afford to do it too often, don't do it too often! If you want to soap a lot and sell it, then it's not a hobby.



I know a few people that are broke and do this in hopes of making some money from home. It is a fun way of making a buck.

You know TEG, I saw something crazy recently. There was some person that had never made a bar of soap in their life. Before the loaf was done drying they were inquiring about how much they should sell it for. I couldn't believe it.


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## goji_fries (Sep 29, 2014)

pamielynn said:


> - it's not just like buying a roll of wire ribbon and making a wreath. Plus, competition is getting fierce out there.



In some places it cannot be classified as competition any longer. It is more 'every man for himself', backstab/gossip central, and very nasty people going after the jugular in order to get your sale. Other places can be cool. However, I've seen competition in many different segments of life go to complete extremes and it grieves me. 

I wish life was like it was long ago, when people generally got along.


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## wetshavingproducts (Sep 29, 2014)

new12soap said:


> Quoted from the same article:
> 
> *But I have homeowner’s insurance and it works just fine*.
> _To be honest, it probably doesn’t! In most cases, this is a general liability insurance and not a specific product liability insurance policy that directly covers the manufacture and sale of soap and cosmetics._
> ...



The keyword in that sentence is sale.... homeowners will not cover you if you sell your goods. It will cover you if you make rancid cookies, give someone salmonela, a tree branch falls on someone, etc etc.

General liability is not the same as product liability. If you put something into the stream of commerce, you are held to a much higher standard.


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