# How do you do labels?



## michelle preston

Hi, I be been making and selling soap for 4 years, no real money earner just a side line, thinking if pushing it more now and expanding.
My problem is labels, I hate them with a passion, hubby normally does for me but now he has a job with long hours.
I've started to print myself but it's driving me nuts as in not good on PC's.
Last time I printed they were ok, now all over the place and I don't understand why 
Do you pay someone to do yours as I can't afford to do this?
If you do yourself what do you use and has this happened to you where once they come out ok, the next not so, I'm going mad with labels wasted


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## shunt2011

I make and print my own labels.  I suck at it and it's a struggle to get them to align.  I finally went to solid sheets of paper and print then cut the labels out.  I started with oval labels and love the look but getting them to align was miserable.  So went to rectangle and it's worked just fine.  Still my least favorite thing to do as it's frustrating and time consuming.   Plus I dno't have a knack for design or computers.


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## Rsapienza

I use MS Word to make my labels. Once I got all the dimensions right, I saved it. Now, when I need labels, I just bring up the document, edit name, ingredients, etc...., and print on cardstock.


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## Jersey Girl

michelle preston said:


> Hi, I be been making and selling soap for 4 years, no real money earner just a side line, thinking if pushing it more now and expanding.
> My problem is labels, I hate them with a passion, hubby normally does for me but now he has a job with long hours.
> I've started to print myself but it's driving me nuts as in not good on PC's.
> Last time I printed they were ok, now all over the place and I don't understand why
> Do you pay someone to do yours as I can't afford to do this?
> If you do yourself what do you use and has this happened to you where once they come out ok, the next not so, I'm going mad with labels wasted


If you purchase labels From Avery or Onlinelabels they have design templates that once you get the hang of it are not hard to do. I’m not experienced In design or computers and I was able (with a little initial help from my husband) to figure it out. I can make them quickly now. When I make a new soap I make the labels right away and tuck it away in a folder for when I need it.


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## SeaSuds

You can buy templates  as digital downloads from Etsy.  I am useless on a computer but I found the instructions easy to follow and have managed round labels and cigar bands so far.  Once you have the template you can change it as many times as you like.  Mine were from PeachandPistachio


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## TheGecko

The key with working with sheets of labels is making sure your paper guides are firm against the sheets so there is no wobble when the paper rollers grab on to them.  And whether you are using the paper tray or the bypass tray, make sure you have a solid foundation for your label sheets so the paper rollers don't have to move as far to grab them.

Another option is to use something like the Brother VC-500W Compact Color Label Printer or Brother QL-810W Label Printer. Both printers work with Windows PC or Mac...you design and then print however many labels you want. The Color Printer also allows you to design and print from iOS and Android SmartPhones and Tablets. The printers aren't cheap, about $200 for the black and white and $235 for the color. And of course, you need labels. But it can be a time and label saver.

For myself, I was printing my labels on sheets via Word; great for my Ingredient labels, but I really suck in the design area.  I tried Publisher, but man, it's been a lot of years since I used it and it's NOT like riding a bike.  So what I did a couple of days ago was to order a half dozen sheets of pre-printed labels that contain everything as required by law, but the name of the soap.  I'll then pick an Avery Template in Word of the same size labels and work out where I need to print the name of the soap and hopefully...Bob's your Uncle.  And if Bob is my Uncle, then I'll be ordering 500 Sheets for my Regular Soap, 300 for my Goat Milk Soap and 100 sheets with just my company name on them for miscellaneous soaps.


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## DeeAnna

I agree with The Gecko that getting the guides firmly against the label stock will help the sheets feed as straight as possible. 

A tune up of the printer can also be helpful -- focus especially in removing lint or dust from the feed rollers so they grab each sheet more evenly.

If the labels have been printing okay until lately, could you also ask your hubby for tips about how he gets good results? Perhaps a few minutes spent getting his advice would make a big difference.


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## cmzaha

I print on 2x4 labels using Publisher. Once designed it is easy to make small changes. It did take a bit of doing to align so the info I wanted to be aligned with the front bottom and back of the soap, but once done it worked great. I use a very inexpensive label stock I get on Amazon 10 labels to a sheet and stick them right on the soap then shrink wrap. These labels do not actually stick to the soap long term just long enough to shrink wrap and the labels stay clean. I also leave a small blank line for writing on the weight as I weight each bar before packaging. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075FKQHW8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 They align better than the Avery 2x4 in my Epson Tank printer


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## AlexanderMakesSoap

We use an Epson c3500 printer. It's a nice little beast with affordable ink and paper options. A bit upfront though.


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## michelle preston

TheGecko said:


> The key with working with sheets of labels is making sure your paper guides are firm against the sheets so there is no wobble when the paper rollers grab on to them.  And whether you are using the paper tray or the bypass tray, make sure you have a solid foundation for your label sheets so the paper rollers don't have to move as far to grab them.
> 
> Another option is to use something like the Brother VC-500W Compact Color Label Printer or Brother QL-810W Label Printer. Both printers work with Windows PC or Mac...you design and then print however many labels you want. The Color Printer also allows you to design and print from iOS and Android SmartPhones and Tablets. The printers aren't cheap, about $200 for the black and white and $235 for the color. And of course, you need labels. But it can be a time and label saver.
> 
> For myself, I was printing my labels on sheets via Word; great for my Ingredient labels, but I really suck in the design area.  I tried Publisher, but man, it's been a lot of years since I used it and it's NOT like riding a bike.  So what I did a couple of days ago was to order a half dozen sheets of pre-printed labels that contain everything as required by law, but the name of the soap.  I'll then pick an Avery Template in Word of the same size labels and work out where I need to print the name of the soap and hopefully...Bob's your Uncle.  And if Bob is my Uncle, then I'll be ordering 500 Sheets for my Regular Soap, 300 for my Goat Milk Soap and 100 sheets with just my company name on them for miscellaneous soaps.


That's a great idea, but I don't see how I could do that as all my soaps have slight difference in the ingredients. My hubby did notice however that the printer tab , the one that feeds the paper was not where it should be, he moved it and hay presto labels came out spot on!
It's interesting to read all the posts thou so keep em coming. Thanks



cmzaha said:


> I print on 2x4 labels using Publisher. Once designed it is easy to make small changes. It did take a bit of doing to align so the info I wanted to be aligned with the front bottom and back of the soap, but once done it worked great. I use a very inexpensive label stock I get on Amazon 10 labels to a sheet and stick them right on the soap then shrink wrap. These labels do not actually stick to the soap long term just long enough to shrink wrap and the labels stay clean. I also leave a small blank line for writing on the weight as I weight each bar before packaging. They align better than the Avery 2x4 in my Epson Tank printer


What fabulous tips thanks , I'll try my labels under my shrink wrap from now on



DeeAnna said:


> I agree with The Gecko that getting the guides firmly against the label stock will help the sheets feed as straight as possible.
> 
> A tune up of the printer can also be helpful -- focus especially in removing lint or dust from the feed rollers so they grab each sheet more evenly.
> 
> If the labels have been printing okay until lately, could you also ask your hubby for tips about how he gets good results? Perhaps a few minutes spent getting his advice would make a big difference.


I think ours def needs dusting!


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## Becky1024

I work with a local graphic designer and label company. It's definitely worth it if you hate the hassle of printing your own labels. I am by no means an artist, and the graphic designer did a wonderful job of designing my labels. The label company has digital printers, so I can get a small number of labels at a decent price.


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## lucycat

I use Publisher and it took a couple of years of changing and improving to get a label I liked.  After that I now have a template that makes new labels a breeze.  

The last time I purchased a printer I realized that a lot of newer printers don't list papers as heavy as card stock in the acceptable papers.  They may work for a short time and/or just have constant feeding issues.  I ended up purchasing a pretty plain and simple printer HP8100  Pro that has card stock printing.  I dedicated it to card stock and got and all-in-one printer for everything else I need.  So, the problems may be the printer.   I do find that feeding is always better when the paper in the printer is about half full.  When it is almost empty is when I see issues with feeding on any paper.


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## abirose3

I use Crinklee Waterproof Essential Oil Labels that I get off of Amazon. You can download a template. They are easy to make. I don't know how many you need to make or if they would be economical for you but, they really are waterproof and do not smudge at all with oils or lotions.


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## chickenchaps

onlinelabels.com  is sooo easy!  Order the labels from them, cheap!  Then use their Maestro Designer.  Its really super easy! way easier than trying to get it lined up in Word or Acrobat!  Their Designer tool is already lined up and perfect for using their labels.  I agree, make sure your printer alignment is adjusted and the paper tray liners are nice and snug.  They have so many really cute clip art too.  The design options are limitless!


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## atiz

I don't sell but do print labels when I gift soaps. I have been using the Avery labels & templates with a Brother printer, and they have been working well for me. 
I have also used a label maker before (one of those you put a label tape in). It doesn't print anything fancy, but it was very easy and functional for printing a list of ingredients.


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## TheGecko

DeeAnna said:


> A tune up of the printer can also be helpful -- focus especially in removing lint or dust from the feed rollers so they grab each sheet more evenly.



You also want to make sure that your feed rollers haven't dried out.  You can get a 'rubber rejuvenator'...something along the lines that copy machine repairmen use.



cmzaha said:


> I also leave a small blank line for writing on the weight as I weight each bar before packaging.



The first time I started selling soap I did that; I had made soap with two different molds and was using a cheese slicer.  Now I am using the same molds for all my regular and goat milk soaps and I have a regular soap cutter.  But to be sure, I pulled a couple of dozen bars from a couple of weeks old to about nine months old and feel confident with stating a 4 oz/114 g weight.  I don't plan on having soap more than 9 months in inventory, but if I do, I will reweigh them.



michelle preston said:


> That's a great idea, but I don't see how I could do that as all my soaps have slight difference in the ingredients.



I have a separate _Ingredient_ label that I print on 'Address Label' stock that goes on the back of my soaps.


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## The Park Bench

chickenchaps said:


> onlinelabels.com  is sooo easy!  Order the labels from them, cheap!  Then use their Maestro Designer.  Its really super easy! way easier than trying to get it lined up in Word or Acrobat!  Their Designer tool is already lined up and perfect for using their labels.  I agree, make sure your printer alignment is adjusted and the paper tray liners are nice and snug.  They have so many really cute clip art too.  The design options are limitless!


I have been using online labels for years now, I love them!


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## Oregon Groves

I see this hasn't had a reply in some time but I have run into an issue. I do sleeves for my labels. My design is great in my opinion. I need to fix a few things however and that is the ingredients. I print my design through Avery and then I do my my ingredients through MS Word and line it to the right so it fold over to the back side of the soap and secure it, HOWEVER I can't align it perfectly and I actually am missing a few things...with the Mica you can't just put Mica and I use different colors all the time so I will be constantly editing. I think it's best if I make my own because of this but it's very frustrating and it worse than cleaning up after making soap  there has to be an easier way.

I decided to keep it simple. I want all my soap to have the same ingredients but maybe a few different additives ( clay, oatmeals, poppyseed)  but the rest I make goat's milk soap only.... always have and people always loved it. 

My ingredient list would look something like this

Olive oil, lard, coconut oil, fresh goat's milk, castor oil, sodium hydroxide, fragrance oil ( or essential oil depending if I use one or the other or a blend) , titanium dioxide, sodium lactate.

And however I go about wording Mica and also  doing additives that I want.


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## chickenchaps

Oregon Groves said:


> I see this hasn't had a reply in some time but I have run into an issue. I do sleeves for my labels. My design is great in my opinion. I need to fix a few things however and that is the ingredients. I print my design through Avery and then I do my my ingredients through MS Word and line it to the right so it fold over to the back side of the soap and secure it, HOWEVER I can't align it perfectly and I actually am missing a few things...with the Mica you can't just put Mica and I use different colors all the time so I will be constantly editing. I think it's best if I make my own because of this but it's very frustrating and it worse than cleaning up after making soap  there has to be an easier way.
> 
> I decided to keep it simple. I want all my soap to have the same ingredients but maybe a few different additives ( clay, oatmeals, poppyseed)  but the rest I make goat's milk soap only.... always have and people always loved it.
> 
> My ingredient list would look something like this
> 
> Olive oil, lard, coconut oil, fresh goat's milk, castor oil, sodium hydroxide, fragrance oil ( or essential oil depending if I use one or the other or a blend) , titanium dioxide, sodium lactate.
> 
> And however I go about wording Mica and also  doing additives that I want.



Maybe you could add an additional line below the common ingredients saying: "May also contain ..."  then list the rest of the ingredients that may change.


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## TheGecko

This is my label for my Regular Soap:

_Ingredients: Olive Oil, Water, Coconut Oil, Palm Oil (RSPO), Sodium Hydroxide, Cocoa Butter, Shea Butter, Castor Oil, Sodium Lactate and Kaolin Clay. May contain Fragrance Oils and/or Colorants._

For my Goat Milk Soap:

_Ingredients: Olive Oil, Raw Goat Milk, Coconut Oil, Palm Oil (RSPO), Sodium Hydroxide, Shea Butter, Castor Oil, Sodium Lactate and Kaolin Clay. May contain Fragrance Oils and/or Colorants. _

I went with 'may contain' because I don't always use FOs and/or colorants.

Labeling for my Lotion Bars is different as it is considered a 'cosmetic':

_Ingredients:  Cocoa Butter, Beeswax, Shea Butter, Kokum Butter, Fragrance Oil and Arrowroot Powder._

You will note the inclusion of the FO...no 'may contain'.  If I were to add a bit of say...Gold Sparkle Mica, I would need to change the label to:

_Ingredients:  Cocoa Butter, Beeswax, Shea Butter, Kokum Butter, Fragrance Oil, Arrowroot Powder and Mica (Synthetic Fluorphlogopite, Titanium Dioxide, Iron Oxide)._

I also make a "Mechanics" soap.  It is my Regular Soap with pumice powder added to it:

_Ingredients: Olive Oil, Water, Coconut Oil, Palm Oil (RSPO), Sodium Hydroxide, Cocoa Butter, Shea Butter, Pumice Powder, Castor Oil, Sodium Lactate and Kaolin Clay. May contain Fragrance Oils and/or Colorants._

I use Avery Address Labels and usually print up a box at a time and then drop the sheets into file folders (Regular Soap, Goat Milk Soap, Lotion Bars, Specialty Soaps). My front labels are different...they are currently mass printed by a company, but don't contain the name I have given the soap or lotion...like Apple Cinnamon, Chocolate Espresso or Ginger & Lime...those have been hand-written in because the labels didn't come on sheets. I'm in the process of changing that so I can run them through the printer. When I originally had my labels printed I hand-wrote in the weight, but after a year's time, I am confident in the cure weight of my soap and it's printed on the label (it's still less than the actual weight).


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## Catscankim

@TheGecko Question. I know that ingredients are not required to be listed on packaging, but are we allowed to list as “_may contain_”, if you choose to label ingredients?

I know you probably already did your research on that, so i should probably rephrase my question to “Wow! We can do that?!! LOL

Learning that every word and comma take up valuable real estate on the labels, I am also wondering if _natural_ colorants might have more label appeal, and worth its real estate?


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## earlene

Well, it depends on _*what*_ you are selling and *where* you are selling, whether or not you are allowed to label using only the word, 'mica'. If you sell to customers in a country where the laws require stricter labeling adherence, you DO have to follow those rules. Example: What you are selling: In the US true soap vs Cosmetic (soap). Example: Where you are selling: US, Canada, etc. If you sell soap that is considered True Soap in the US, it is a Cosmetic in Canada, and therefore must be labeled as such for Canadian sales.

For example, if listing the specific colorants by INCI name is required in the country where your buyer is located and you ship to that customer's location, you are required to label using the INCI name and you can't just say 'mica'.

Even in the US, if your soap is a cosmetic, you are still required to list & use only FDA approved colorants and this is the US Federal Regulation that pertains: Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (eCFR)

As for 'may contain'  that is covered by the FDA regulations for colorants in Cosmetics labelling here: CFR - Code of Federal Regulations Title 21

So, yes, you can do it according to the US FDA regulations for Cosmetic soap.  But can you sell that soap with that same label to customers who order from outside the US?  Probably not, which is why some sellers won't ship to other countries, shipping costs aside.


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## Oregon Groves

Thanks guys! I will do that. That's less of a headache. I was spending a whole day doing labels because the ingredients


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## Oregon Groves

earlene said:


> Well, it depends on _*what*_ you are selling and *where* you are selling, whether or not you are allowed to label using only the word, 'mica'. If you sell to customers in a country where the laws require stricter labeling adherence, you DO have to follow those rules. Example: What you are selling: In the US true soap vs Cosmetic (soap). Example: Where you are selling: US, Canada, etc. If you sell soap that is considered True Soap in the US, it is a Cosmetic in Canada, and therefore must be labeled as such for Canadian sales.
> 
> For example, if listing the specific colorants by INCI name is required in the country where your buyer is located and you ship to that customer's location, you are required to label using the INCI name and you can't just say 'mica'.
> 
> Even in the US, if your soap is a cosmetic, you are still required to list & use only FDA approved colorants and this is the US Federal Regulation that pertains: Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (eCFR)
> 
> As for 'may contain'  that is covered by the FDA regulations for colorants in Cosmetics labelling here: CFR - Code of Federal Regulations Title 21
> 
> So, yes, you can do it according to the US FDA regulations for Cosmetic soap.  But can you sell that soap with that same label to customers who order from outside the US?  Probably not, which is why some sellers won't ship to other countries, shipping costs aside.


 Right now I am focusing on just selling locally at shops and in the USA but that's a good point too.


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## marehare

Jersey Girl said:


> If you purchase labels From Avery or Onlinelabels they have design templates that once you get the hang of it are not hard to do. I’m not experienced In design or computers and I was able (with a little initial help from my husband) to figure it out. I can make them quickly now. When I make a new soap I make the labels right away and tuck it away in a folder for when I need it.





atiz said:


> I don't sell but do print labels when I gift soaps. I have been using the Avery labels & templates with a Brother printer, and they have been working well for me.
> I have also used a label maker before (one of those you put a label tape in). It doesn't print anything fancy, but it was very easy and functional for printing a list of ingredients.


I've been using Avery for years. I use stick on labels that are round. I design my own labels and change the  design if I change the scents. So easy and quick. I buy blank labels on Ebay since they're cheaper than Avery and they work fine. Then I wrap in tissue paper and use label to seal the soap. It makes wrapping and labeling quick and my soap looks very professional.


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## Oregon Groves

marehare said:


> I've been using Avery for years. I use stick on labels that are round. I design my own labels and change the  design if I change the scents. So easy and quick. I buy blank labels on Ebay since they're cheaper than Avery and they work fine. Then I wrap in tissue paper and use label to seal the soap. It makes wrapping and labeling quick and my soap looks very professional.


I like to do sleeves so people can still see the soap.
I just can't seem to get the ingredients lined up and then I ended up reading recently about Mica and each color technically has different wording you have to use and I use font size 9 and still have to cram it all in there. I don't want to give up the Mica as I love doing my swirls and designs.

I noticed that on Zote soap on their packaging they don't show they have sodium hydroxide in their soap but when you go online it shows that they do. I found that interesting.


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## Jersey Girl

marehare said:


> I've been using Avery for years. I use stick on labels that are round. I design my own labels and change the  design if I change the scents. So easy and quick. I buy blank labels on Ebay since they're cheaper than Avery and they work fine. Then I wrap in tissue paper and use label to seal the soap. It makes wrapping and labeling quick and my soap looks very professional.



That’s good to know you can get labels that work with Avery on eBay. Thanks for that info.  I will check them out


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## Adobehead

The Park Bench said:


> I have been using online labels for years now, I love them!


I like them, too but the ink (inkjet type) rubs off the coated stock (shiny) and looks ruined very quickly, so I spray them with clear spray paint while on the sheet, it dries quick.  that solves it.  Now I have purchased matte paper but I expect the same, we shall see.


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## Vicki C

I don’t sell soap but I do make it for gifts every Christmas. I print cigar band labels six to a sheet on vellum paper. The front has the name of the soap, usually some graphic I find online, and the back has ingredients.


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## TheGecko

Catscankim said:


> Question. I know that ingredients are not required to be listed on packaging, but are we allowed to list as “_may contain_”, if you choose to label ingredients?



Even though there is no requirement for an ingredients label for true soap in the United States, there is no way I would buy anyone’s soap without one.  And if you are going to have an ingredient label, you want to do it right...especially since there is no reason not to.



> I know you probably already did your research on that, so i should probably rephrase my question to “Wow! We can do that?!! LOL



Honestly...it’s less about “can” and not finding anything that says I “can’t”.  I started with Marie Gale, followed all her links, followed the links’ links, looked at tons of labels.



> Learning that every word and comma take up valuable real estate on the labels, I am also wondering if _natural_ colorants might have more label appeal, and worth its real estate?



Yes on the label appeal, but are you actually using “natural” colorants?  While Mica is a naturally occurring minerals, most of the micas used in cosmetics is synthetic.


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## earlene

TheGecko said:


> Catscankim said:
> 
> 
> 
> @TheGecko Question. I know that ingredients are not required to be listed on packaging, but are we allowed to list as “_may contain_”, if you choose to label ingredients?
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly...it’s less about “can” and not finding anything that says I “can’t”.  I started with Marie Gale, followed all her links, followed the links’ links, looked at tons of labels.
Click to expand...

The answer is covered in the CFR link I referenced in my above post. See (g)(1) in the link.


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## TheGecko

earlene said:


> The answer is covered in the CFR link I referenced in my above post. See (g)(1) in the link.



I was speaking of labeling for soap, but I have bookmarked your link for further reading...thank you.

And thank you for bringing up about selling in other countries.


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## earlene

I know you were, but some soaps are cosmetics per FDA regulations, so labeling for cosmetics applies in those situations.  And since it is acceptable for soaps that qualify as cosmetic (pine tar soap, for example would qualify as cosmetic), then it would be acceptable for the 'lesser' (tongue-in-cheek) non-cosmetic soaps as well.  And since you said you want to do your labels correctly, then following the stricter labeling regs puts you in better footing should anyone challenge your true soap as a cosmetic = the label should already meet that criteria.


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## Mobjack Bay

I don’t sell but I do make bands for my soaps that include the weight, ingredients and contact info.  I print everything directly on card stock that I slice up with a paper cutter. If the paper doesn’t feed quite right, I can trim a little extra off one end.  I use a template with guides and text boxes to get everything aligned properly.  I have been listing all of the ingredients, but sometimes it’s hard to fit everything.  I’ve been thinking about using a stick-on label for the ingredients.  The lighthouse was available in “Pages” on my Mac.  It’s a very simple design, but it’s fine for now.


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## Zing

This thread is fascinating and I'm getting lots of ideas!  I use Avery.com for labels; the interface on occasion is tricky but my wife and I (no computer experts here) are successful in making attractive labels.  The labels are the store brand from big box office supply stores that we load into our simple color HP printer.  I cut strips of brown Kraft paper for cigar bands.  On Avery.com you can start off with a blank label, or search thousands of sample templates.  You can also upload other images or photos.

For forever I would label the front of my soap with the name, and a separate label on the back with ingredients.  I did the same on the top and bottom of lotion bar tins.  Then my brilliant Mrs. Zing decided to cut our time in half and now use a single label for name, ingredients, and weight.  

I'm just a hobbyist and give away soap to friends and family.  In my experience, the only ingredient people care about, ask about, look for, is the scent.


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## TheGecko

earlene said:


> I know you were, but some soaps are cosmetics per FDA regulations, so labeling for cosmetics applies in those situations.  And since it is acceptable for soaps that qualify as cosmetic (pine tar soap, for example would qualify as cosmetic), then it would be acceptable for the 'lesser' (tongue-in-cheek) non-cosmetic soaps as well.  And since you said you want to do your labels correctly, then following the stricter labeling regs puts you in better footing should anyone challenge your true soap as a cosmetic = the label should already meet that criteria.



Okay, you're going to have to explain to me how 'pine tar soap' is "cosmetic".  And how someone can challenge your soap as being "cosmetic" if you make no "cosmetic" claims to start with?  I'm just imagining someone claiming that my GMS cured their eczema and now all of a sudden, my GMS, which is pretty much just my regular soap made with goat milk instead of water...is now subject to the time, expense and much stricter regulations.  What kind of BS is that?!?

From the minute I decided to go from making soap as a hobby for my family (and maybe a few close friends), to turning this in a business and selling to the public, I've been doing the research, following the rules/law/guidelines.  I follow reasonably good manufacturing processes...from storing my ingredients, to making the soap, to curing, to storing my cured soaps.  I follow the rules for labeling my soaps (even after a year, my soap weighs more than the label says).  I make zero claims for my soap...it's just soap, it will get you clean...end of story.  It won't make you beautiful or hot or rich or popular.  I don't tout the 'benefits' of any of my ingredients since I can't prove that any of said 'benefits' survive the saponification process.  I could say that my Regular Soap is 'vegan' because it doesn't contain any animals products, but I don't even do that.

Now I'm worried about my "mechanics" soap.  Does adding pumice powder change it from a 'true' soap to a 'cosmetic'?


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## maxine289

Adobehead said:


> I like them, too but the ink (inkjet type) rubs off the coated stock (shiny) and looks ruined very quickly, so I spray them with clear spray paint while on the sheet, it dries quick.  that solves it.  Now I have purchased matte paper but I expect the same, we shall see.


I have a laser jet printer and found that the ink rubs off on the matte Avery labels.  I don't have any trouble with the Avery glossy labels.  When I had an ink jet printer, I also sprayed the matte Avery labels with clear spray paint to prevent smearing.


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## maxine289

Zing said:


> This thread is fascinating and I'm getting lots of ideas!  I use Avery.com for labels; the interface on occasion is tricky but my wife and I (no computer experts here) are successful in making attractive labels.  The labels are the store brand from big box office supply stores that we load into our simple color HP printer.  I cut strips of brown Kraft paper for cigar bands.  On Avery.com you can start off with a blank label, or search thousands of sample templates.  You can also upload other images or photos.
> 
> For forever I would label the front of my soap with the name, and a separate label on the back with ingredients.  I did the same on the top and bottom of lotion bar tins.  Then my brilliant Mrs. Zing decided to cut our time in half and now use a single label for name, ingredients, and weight.
> 
> I'm just a hobbyist and give away soap to friends and family.  In my experience, the only ingredient people care about, ask about, look for, is the scent.


It is time consuming to have both front and back labels.  I'll investigate using one label for everything but I think it will take up the entire front of the soap since my logo takes up a fair amount of space.  I'll have to tinker with it.


----------



## Megan

Adobehead said:


> I like them, too but the ink (inkjet type) rubs off the coated stock (shiny) and looks ruined very quickly, so I spray them with clear spray paint while on the sheet, it dries quick.  that solves it.  Now I have purchased matte paper but I expect the same, we shall see.


I've never had this problem with online labels...I wonder why you're having this issue... Although I do like the idea of clear spray paint as it seems it would be easier to keep the labels clean if you have to wipe the packaged soap down.


----------



## The Park Bench

Megan said:


> I've never had this problem with online labels...I wonder why you're having this issue... Although I do like the idea of clear spray paint as it seems it would be easier to keep the labels clean if you have to wipe the packaged soap down.


it's because she is using an inkjet printer instead of a laser printer, I used to have the same issue when I had an inkjet.


----------



## AliOop

earlene said:


> ... some soaps are cosmetics per FDA regulations, so labeling for cosmetics applies in those situations.


I would only agree with that statement to the extent that cosmetic claims are actually made, whether on the label or in the product description. 

If no cosmetic claims are made, nothing in the ingredients themselves turns CP soap into a cosmetic. So @TheGecko my answer to your question is no, the mere addition of pumice, pine tar, goat milk, etc., without any cosmetic claims being made about said ingredient, does not turn your CP soap into a cosmetic that requires cosmetic labeling.


----------



## Megan

The Park Bench said:


> it's because she is using an inkjet printer instead of a laser printer, I used to have the same issue when I had an inkjet.


No, I use both...I've never had that problem with my inkjet on my glossy labels. Maybe the type of ink?


----------



## earlene

TheGecko said:


> Okay, you're going to have to explain to me how 'pine tar soap' is "cosmetic".  And how someone can challenge your soap as being "cosmetic" if you make no "cosmetic" claims to start with?  I'm just imagining someone claiming that my GMS cured their eczema and now all of a sudden, my GMS, which is pretty much just my regular soap made with goat milk instead of water...is now subject to the time, expense and much stricter regulations.  What kind of BS is that?!?
> 
> From the minute I decided to go from making soap as a hobby for my family (and maybe a few close friends), to turning this in a business and selling to the public, I've been doing the research, following the rules/law/guidelines.  I follow reasonably good manufacturing processes...from storing my ingredients, to making the soap, to curing, to storing my cured soaps.  I follow the rules for labeling my soaps (even after a year, my soap weighs more than the label says).  I make zero claims for my soap...it's just soap, it will get you clean...end of story.  It won't make you beautiful or hot or rich or popular.  I don't tout the 'benefits' of any of my ingredients since I can't prove that any of said 'benefits' survive the saponification process.  I could say that my Regular Soap is 'vegan' because it doesn't contain any animals products, but I don't even do that.
> 
> Now I'm worried about my "mechanics" soap.  Does adding pumice powder change it from a 'true' soap to a 'cosmetic'?




I am sorry, I should have said, Pine Tar Soap is a drug, not a cosmetic.  My mistake.  Okay, now you can get riled up!

According to the FDA, it is not ONLY what you as the maker intends, but ALSO what the _buyer expects_.

This has been discussed here many times in the past, and it goes back to what the general public's perception is for a particular ingredient.  Pine tar has been used for over 2000 years for medicinal purposes, and at least in the US, there is an expectation that pine tar or any other type of coal tar in soap is going to, at the very least, soothe the skin, at the other end of the public perception of this ingredient, it will treat psoriasis, eczema, and any number of skin conditions.

Here is a link to a statement from the FDA after another member wrote and asked for clarification for another kind of soap (shaving soap), which is a cosmetic according to the US federal regulations about what makes a soap a cosmetic:






						What exactly are the regulations re: ingredients
					

Man I give up ... I spend all day reading Healthcare regs.  Can't do the FDA/CPSC right now.  Seriously though folks - I'm not trying to be argumentative (although I do realize I am being that), I just have a sort of weird thing about references.  So far those don't tell me that Shaving Soap is...




					www.soapmakingforum.com
				




But, take a look at this part, specifically:


•             Consumer perception, which may be established through the product's reputation. This means asking why the consumer is buying it and what the consumer expects it to do.

•             Ingredients that may cause a product to be considered a drug because they have a well-known (to the public and industry) therapeutic use. 


That comes directly from the FDA, and is still on the FDA website today, in spite of all the changes that have occurred as it continually gets updated and breaks links all over the place.  I later wrote to that very same FDA agent for clarification and nothing has changed; every thing S. Wright said in 2014 was re-iterated again in 2019 via email to me.

Regarding Pine Tar as an ingredient in soap:

Pine tar as a medicinal ingredient per public perception:  








						Psoriasis and Psoriatic Arthritis OTC Topicals
					

Over-the-counter products for psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis are available in pharmacies, stores, or directly from the manufacturer without a doctor’s prescription.




					www.psoriasis.org
				






			Topical pine tar: History, properties and use as a treatment for common skin conditions
		


(Yes, I know there are contradictions between those two links, but public perception is the key.)

Pine tar has actually been banned by the FDA for use in cosmetics back in 1990:  


			http://pinch.com/skin/docs/fda/FDA-OTC-ingredients-ban
		


Take a look at this link, which indicates that coal tar (and if the National Psoriasis Foundation's statement is taken as fact, then pine tar is also medicinal.

So really, pine tar in soap actually makes the soap a drug, despite what the soap maker intends, which a whole other can of worms. Even here at SMF, many many posts can be found about how effective pine tar soap is for our own members and spouses of members.  Can any of us honestly pretend that denying pine tar has a reputation of helping skin conditions is going to suffice if the FDA shows up on our doorstep?

Food for thought.








						A Surprise Visit from the FDA - Soap Queen
					

Every small business, no matter the industry, must adhere to rules and regulations. The soap and cosmetics industry is no exception. Even the smallest of soapy and cosmetic businesses must comply with the FDA in terms of labeling, manufacturing practices, claims and more. If you’re a beginner or...




					www.soapqueen.com
				




Here is an FDA document listing OTC ingredients that may be a clue as to what additives may require more stringent labeling on our soaps in the US:


			https://www.fda.gov/media/75750/download
		


Regarding adding pumice to soap, yes, if you use the word exfoliate or similar, or your buyer expects exfoliation, that makes that particular soap a cosmetic.  I am not sure if the general population in the US expect pumice to exfoliate, as much as I know they believe pine tar soap soothes the skin or helps treat skin conditions.  But, I expect it does, so IMO, yes, it is a cosmetic.

But as I said before, if your labeling meets cosmetic standards, your label should not be an issue.


----------



## violets2217

earlene said:


> But, take a look at this part, specifically:
> 
> 
> •             Consumer perception, which may be established through the product's reputation. This means asking why the consumer is buying it and what the consumer expects it to do.
> 
> •             Ingredients that may cause a product to be considered a drug because they have a well-known (to the public and industry) therapeutic use.
> 
> 
> That comes directly from the FDA, and is still on the FDA website today, in spite of all the changes that have occurred as it continually gets updated and breaks links all over the place.  I later wrote to that very same FDA agent for clarification and nothing has changed; every thing S. Wright said in 2014 was re-iterated again in 2019 via email to me.



This is a continuation of your quote above... Even essential oils can have a perceived therapeutic use...  This is why I'm not selling soap. Too scared! All my family and friends that use my soap tell me I should sell and I'm always replying nope!









						Is It a Cosmetic, a Drug, or Both? (Or Is It Soap?)
					

An overview of the legal differences between cosmetics and drugs, and whether a cosmetic can be both or just a soap.




					www.fda.gov
				




*How is a product's intended use established?*

Intended use may be established in a number of ways. The following are some examples: 


Claims stated on the product labeling, in advertising, on the Internet, or in other promotional materials. Certain claims may cause a product to be considered a drug, even if the product is marketed as if it were a cosmetic. Such claims establish the product as a drug because the intended use is to treat or prevent disease or otherwise affect the structure or functions of the human body. Some examples are claims that products will restore hair growth, reduce cellulite, treat varicose veins, increase or decrease the production of melanin (pigment) in the skin, or regenerate cells.
Consumer perception, which may be established through the product's reputation. This means asking why the consumer is buying it and what the consumer expects it to do.
Ingredients that cause a product to be considered a drug because they have a well-known (to the public and industry) therapeutic use. An example is fluoride in toothpaste.
*This principle also holds true for "essential oils." *For example, a fragrance marketed for promoting attractiveness is a cosmetic. But a fragrance marketed with certain "aromatherapy" claims, such as assertions that the scent will help the consumer sleep or quit smoking, meets the definition of a drug because of its intended use. Similarly, a massage oil that is simply intended to lubricate the skin and impart fragrance is a cosmetic, but if the product is intended for a therapeutic use, such as relieving muscle pain, it's a drug.


----------



## TheGecko

earlene said:


> I am sorry, I should have said, Pine Tar Soap is a drug, not a cosmetic.  My mistake.  Okay, now you can get riled up!



Not riled up, just really confused and trying to do things right (and legal). I’m afraid I had never heard of Pine Tar Soap until Dr Squatch and thought it was just a FO like “Bay Rum”.

The purpose of the pumice powder is more ‘cleaning’ power. My BIL and his friends are all gear-heads...none of them like Lava or “orange” base cleaners that mechanics often use. But they all like my soap and had asked if I could do something to make it better for washing off grease and grime. My first test bars contained regular pumice and it was okay, but they wanted something that wasn’t quite as rough. Then I found pumice powder and they liked it much better. 

I’ve done some research on ‘product liability’...it’s why I quit using walnut shells despite putting the ingredients in bold red letters.  I knew I would win any lawsuit, but it would still cost me.


----------



## earlene

That was tongue-in-cheek, I should have added a smiley, but we don't have one that matches.  And I couldn't find a free one online either.

I get it about the mechanics soap.  The only reason I add pumice and borax to soap is for my brother the blacksmith.  I designed it for him at his request for a better soap to get the stains off his hands and make it only for him.  Although my husband and another friend also use it sometimes as well.  

As long as you are marketing it only as a cleaning agent, and your customer only wants to get their hands really clean, IMO, it works. After all, what gets those grimey greasy stained hands clean is the friction of rubbing the hands together with the cleaning agent (in this case the soap which includes pumice) and then that gets rinsed off, leaving the hands clean. Exfoliation is not the goal of mechanics or a blacksmith. Their only goal is to get the dirt, grease, grime and any resulting tough stains off their hands. They don't walk around the store in search of 'exfoliating' products, at least not that I have heard. I did my research on blacksmith soap on the blacksmith forums and not once do I recall anyone talking about exfoliating as a goal. They just wanted the most effective product to get their hands clean faster. That's how I came up with adding Borax to my blacksmith soap; it's what was determined the most effective for some.

But as you said before, your goal is to do the labels correctly, and as long as they are, then I don't see any reason to be concerned.


----------



## Mobjack Bay

earlene said:


> I am sorry, I should have said, Pine Tar Soap is a drug, not a cosmetic.  My mistake.  Okay, now you can get riled up!
> 
> According to the FDA, it is not ONLY what you as the maker intends, but ALSO what the _buyer expects_.
> 
> This has been discussed here many times in the past, and it goes back to what the general public's perception is for a particular ingredient.  Pine tar has been used for over 2000 years for medicinal purposes, and at least in the US, there is an expectation that pine tar or any other type of coal tar in soap is going to, at the very least, soothe the skin, at the other end of the public perception of this ingredient, it will treat psoriasis, eczema, and any number of skin conditions.
> 
> Here is a link to a statement from the FDA after another member wrote and asked for clarification for another kind of soap (shaving soap), which is a cosmetic according to the US federal regulations about what makes a soap a cosmetic:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What exactly are the regulations re: ingredients
> 
> 
> Man I give up ... I spend all day reading Healthcare regs.  Can't do the FDA/CPSC right now.  Seriously though folks - I'm not trying to be argumentative (although I do realize I am being that), I just have a sort of weird thing about references.  So far those don't tell me that Shaving Soap is...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soapmakingforum.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, take a look at this part, specifically:
> 
> 
> •             Consumer perception, which may be established through the product's reputation. This means asking why the consumer is buying it and what the consumer expects it to do.
> 
> •             Ingredients that may cause a product to be considered a drug because they have a well-known (to the public and industry) therapeutic use.
> 
> 
> That comes directly from the FDA, and is still on the FDA website today, in spite of all the changes that have occurred as it continually gets updated and breaks links all over the place.  I later wrote to that very same FDA agent for clarification and nothing has changed; every thing S. Wright said in 2014 was re-iterated again in 2019 via email to me.
> 
> Regarding Pine Tar as an ingredient in soap:
> 
> Pine tar as a medicinal ingredient per public perception:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Psoriasis and Psoriatic Arthritis OTC Topicals
> 
> 
> Over-the-counter products for psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis are available in pharmacies, stores, or directly from the manufacturer without a doctor’s prescription.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.psoriasis.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Topical pine tar: History, properties and use as a treatment for common skin conditions
> 
> 
> 
> (Yes, I know there are contradictions between those two links, but public perception is the key.)
> 
> Pine tar has actually been banned by the FDA for use in cosmetics back in 1990:
> 
> 
> http://pinch.com/skin/docs/fda/FDA-OTC-ingredients-ban
> 
> 
> 
> Take a look at this link, which indicates that coal tar (and if the National Psoriasis Foundation's statement is taken as fact, then pine tar is also medicinal.
> 
> So really, pine tar in soap actually makes the soap a drug, despite what the soap maker intends, which a whole other can of worms. Even here at SMF, many many posts can be found about how effective pine tar soap is for our own members and spouses of members.  Can any of us honestly pretend that denying pine tar has a reputation of helping skin conditions is going to suffice if the FDA shows up on our doorstep?
> 
> Food for thought.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Surprise Visit from the FDA - Soap Queen
> 
> 
> Every small business, no matter the industry, must adhere to rules and regulations. The soap and cosmetics industry is no exception. Even the smallest of soapy and cosmetic businesses must comply with the FDA in terms of labeling, manufacturing practices, claims and more. If you’re a beginner or...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.soapqueen.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is an FDA document listing OTC ingredients that may be a clue as to what additives may require more stringent labeling on our soaps in the US:
> 
> 
> https://www.fda.gov/media/75750/download
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding adding pumice to soap, yes, if you use the word exfoliate or similar, or your buyer expects exfoliation, that makes that particular soap a cosmetic.  I am not sure if the general population in the US expect pumice to exfoliate, as much as I know they believe pine tar soap soothes the skin or helps treat skin conditions.  But, I expect it does, so IMO, yes, it is a cosmetic.
> 
> But as I said before, if your labeling meets cosmetic standards, your label should not be an issue.


That list opens up a very big can of worms.  On a quick scan, I found beeswax, caffeine, castor oil, citric acid,  colloidal oatmeal, various sugars, iron oxide, many EOs, salt, sorbitol, and *purified water*.  Context must come into play at some point.


----------



## earlene

Mobjack Bay said:


> That list opens up a very big can of worms.  On a quick scan, I found beeswax, caffeine, castor oil, citric acid,  colloidal oatmeal, various sugars, iron oxide, many EOs, salt, sorbitol, and *purified water*.  Context must come into play at some point.



Context would be what it is being used for.  

If you look at the columns 'monograph' and 'sub-category', that's the part I would look at to try and get an idea if a consumer might expect anything beneficial from the ingredient when added to soap.  Personally I know better, as do most of us, in regards to the fact that soap is a wash-off product and there is little or no opportunity for any residual benefit of a minuscule amount of any ingredient in our soap. But does the general public know that?  Well, we would expect them to if they were to give it much thought.  But the evidence is that many don't.  Otherwise, why would they buy soap that is supposed to lighten skin (papaya), soap that is supposed to relieve poison oak (jewelweed), etc?  Maybe because they want them to, but also maybe because in some cases they do, or someone told them they do.

But back to the purpose of anything on that list when in soap vs when in a cosmetic or drug, which soap may or may
not be, in certain cases...

Take sorbitol, for example, in bath or hand soap it is not used as a digestive aide, laxative or demulcent (unless perhaps added to tooth soap, hmmm); it's used to support or provide bubbles.  I don't think anyone is going to expect soap with sorbitol to do any of those medicinal things, particularly since it is not listed in soap as an Active Ingredient.  The term 'Active Ingredient' is only used on labels for drugs, anyway, so unless a soap is being marketed as a drug, that phrase won't be on the label.

Another example, coal tars used as a hair-dye are given exception in cosmetics by the FDA based on the law that addresses coal tar hair dyes specifically (C.F.R. 21 § 740.18).  And that is for dyeing the hair only, no other purpose of coal tar is exempted when it comes to its use in a FDA regulated product. When used for any other purpose, prior approval is required for drugs.  Coal tar derivative dyes are either not on the list of FDA approved colorants for use in cosmetics, or they are hidden (to me) by virtue of some other nomenclature (but I don't think they are.)

Caffeine, however has made me wonder.  Would a consumer expect coffee soap to stimulate them to be more alert when used for their morning shower?  If I recall correctly, my husband wondered about that when I first started making coffee soap.  Of course it didn't anymore than any morning shower would.


But many of those things on that list are used as color additives in soap, and as long as folks don't expect some cosmetic or medicinal effect from those ingredients, when labeling, I think (my opinion) using the term, 'Colorants:' followed by the names of the the colorants should suffice as compliance when it comes to color additives.  Which as we know is not required for true soap, but as responsible soap makers we try to label appropriately.

Also useful as it pertains to color additives: Marie Gale's article Are Your Color Additives Legal?  She is basically talking about cosmetics there, but at one point I briefly entertained the thought, maybe we could claim pine tar as a color additive in soap and not a medicinal ingredient, but I don't think that would fly, because it is generally used in amounts greater than 1%, which is way more than most of us use of any color additive anyway.

And another useful color additive reference: FDA Color Additives and Cosmetics Fact Sheet.

And then that whole thing of "Label Appeal"as it pertains to some particular ingredient?   What do we mean by that anyway?  Isn't that a vague way of thinking or saying, the customer might think this ingredient is special and will provide some benefit?  I know, it's vague, but it does lean in the direction of customer expectations of intended purpose as an ingredient, which then lends weight to the FDA's statement that consumer perception is more important to classify a product than even our own intent?  (Link again)

An interestingly, the FDA bases this intended use criteria on a Senate report from 1934, in which it was concluded that 



> The courts, in deciding whether a product is a "cosmetic", a "drug", or both a "drug" and a "cosmetic", have relied principally on the consumer's perception of the meaning of a label statement and less so on the interpretation of the meaning of a label statement by the labeler or a regulatory agency.


----------



## Mobjack Bay

This is great information @earlene .  Thank you for the time you spent to track it down and explain what it means.  I don’t sell soap, but I’ve thought about.  However, it’s easy to feel overwhelmed by how much there is to know and the potential liabilities.  I think those issues might quickly take the fun out of it.


----------



## earlene

Thank you, *Mobjack Bay*.  It's a pain the way the CFR reads.  Searching it and finding clear-cut answers has always been a challenge.  In my former life, toward the end of my nursing career, my job was to teach the staff how to comply with state, federal and accrediting agency regulations.  It was a huge pain in the tush to try and decipher and reconcile them all to each other.  Luckily, there are classes/seminars taught by the feds, the state agencies and even the accreditation agencies that taught any new major and minor changes in those regulations when they came out.  If it hadn't been for those seminars, I'd have had a hard time figuring out the ins and outs of them all.

As a result of those years, I did gain a little skill in the process, although it is still just as hard to find information as it was back then.  Maybe more so, because the FDA keep breaking links on their website and we have to keep searching of the same old stuff again and again and again, even when there aren't any changes to the regulations.


----------



## HoppyCosmetics

TheGecko said:


> Ingredients: Olive Oil, Water, Coconut Oil, Palm Oil (RSPO), Sodium Hydroxide, Cocoa Butter, Shea Butter, Castor Oil, Sodium Lactate and Kaolin Clay. May contain Fragrance Oils and/or Colorants.


Just curious as to why sodium hydroxide isn't labelled as the first ingredient? Im new! 

Also, ive heard Canva is good for label/sticker making, but i haven't used it yet, so i can't comment on it... 



			https://www.canva.com/en_gb/


----------



## TheGecko

Soaparonie said:


> Just curious as to why sodium hydroxide isn't labelled as the first ingredient? Im new!



Because ingredients are listed in descending order of predominance (by weight).


----------



## HoppyCosmetics

TheGecko said:


> Because ingredients are listed in descending order of predominance (by weight)


I know that in foods, the main ingredients are listed first. So i take it you don't need to put lye first on the list because it isn't in the final product?


----------



## TheGecko

Soaparonie said:


> . I know that in foods, the main ingredients are listed first. So i take it you don't need to put lye first on the list because it isn't in the final product?



Technically, nothing in my ingredient listing is in the final product because the saponification process has turned the fats and lye into soap.

I just saw that you are from Scotland, I’m in the US. I don’t know what the labeling standards are in your country, but in the US...whether it’s soap, shampoo, mayonnaise, coffee creamer, etc...ingredients are listed from the most amount to the least amount.


----------



## AliOop

Soaparonie said:


> I know that in foods, the main ingredients are listed first. So i take it you don't need to put lye first on the list because it isn't in the final product?


What do you mean by “main” ingredients? All of the items listed before the lye on that label are “main” ingredients - the soap cannot be made without them.

And as Gecko noted, the ingredients are listed in the order of weight. Thus, the ingredients listed before the lye are there because they were used in a greater quantity (by weight) than the lye. This is the same way that food is labeled in the US.

Otherwise, if you aren’t going by weight, who would determine what is a “main” ingredient, and not a “main” ingredient, and what would be the basis for making that determination?

Again, all of the oils listed before lye were necessary for making soap when saponified by the lye. So are the oils listed after the lye. So all of them are “main” ingredients."


----------



## HoppyCosmetics

AliOop said:


> What do you mean by “main” ingredients?


I assumed lye would be listed first, then the oils, because lye was the main ingredient that you start off with followed by water, and then oils.


AliOop said:


> And as Gecko noted, the ingredients are listed in the order of weight. Thus, the ingredients listed before the lye are there because they were used in a greater quantity (by weight) than the lye. This is the same way that food is labeled in the US.


This is what i didn't know, i didn't know it was done by weight.



TheGecko said:


> I just saw that you are from Scotland, I’m in the US. I don’t know what the labeling standards are in your country, but in the US...whether it’s soap, shampoo, mayonnaise, coffee creamer, etc...ingredients are listed from the most amount to the least amount.


Ive just read online, the UK and the US are labelled the same. I don't know what i was thinking!


----------



## TheGecko

Soaparonie said:


> I don't know what i was thinking!



It happens to all of us...no worries.


----------



## AnnickAimee

Sodium hydroxide isn’t in the soap anymore after curing, so it shouldn’t be mentioned as an ingredient. The inci names are the ingredients, like Olea Europaea for olive oil or cocos nucifera for coconut oil.


----------



## HoppyCosmetics

AnnickAimee said:


> Sodium hydroxide isn’t in the soap anymore after curing, so it shouldn’t be mentioned as an ingredient. The inci names are the ingredients, like Olea Europaea for olive oil or cocos nucifera for coconut oil.


I see what you're saying, but i read that there's two ways of writing the ingredients and both are legal. You can either write olive oil, coconut oil, sodium hydroxide, etc. Or you write sodium olivate, sodium cocoate, glycerin, etc, without a mention of sodium hydroxide. Is that right? Just making sure.


----------



## AliOop

Soaparonie said:


> I see what you're saying, but i read that there's two ways of writing the ingredients and both are legal. You can either write olive oil, coconut oil, sodium hydroxide, etc. Or you write sodium olivate, sodium cocoate, glycerin, etc, without a mention of sodium hydroxide. Is that right? Just making sure.


@AnnickAimee In the US, we have the option to list what goes into the pot, what comes out of the pot, or to list no ingredients at all if we are selling it as plain soap with no claims.

The problem with trying to list what comes out of the pot is that without expensive testing, one cannot say with accuracy exactly what is in the soap. For instance, which of the oils used (and how much of it) was left unsaponified as your superfat? How much glycerine was created during saponification? To accurately list what comes out of the pot, you would need to know the answers to both of those questions.

Perhaps in countries where testing is required before selling, one could state with more accuracy exactly what is in the finished soap. Such testing is not required in the US, and that is why most US soapmakers list what goes into the pot -- because they can say with certainty what those ingredients are, and list them in descending order by weight.


----------



## Hammer

I use the Avery labels and print multiple sheets at a time.  I save the ingredients to reprint when I need more.  It is handy and they stick nicely to the packages


----------

