# Need Basic Soap Recipe



## rm051562 (Feb 15, 2018)

This will be my first time making lye soap. Can someone please provide a basic recipe for soap made from
1. lye/water
2. Coconut oil
3. Olive oil
4. Palm oil
Thank you


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## jcandleattic (Feb 15, 2018)

rm051562 said:


> This will be my first time making lye soap. Can someone please provide a basic recipe for soap made from
> 1. lye/water
> 2. Coconut oil
> 3. Olive oil
> ...


Determine your batch size, then try 33% of each oil (34% for Olive oil to get you to 100% oils) and then run it through a lye calculator to get your lye amounts. Determine the concentration of your lye solution and also put that into the calculator. Most common is a 30%-35% lye solution.


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## DeeAnna (Feb 15, 2018)

I am not willing to give you a complete recipe, not because I don't care to share one (that doesn't bother me), but because you really need to learn how to use a soap recipe calculator right from the first. That said, there are some decent recipes at millersoap.com that may suit you. Even if you use someone else's recipe, don't trust their numbers. You should always, always run a recipe through a soap recipe calculator so YOU know the numbers are going to make safe soap.

Many soap recipes fall in these ranges for the fats you want to use --
15-30% coconut oil
30-50% palm oil
the rest as olive oil

And JC's 33% recipe would be plenty fine too.

Decide the total amount of fats for your batch. For a first time, I suggest 16 oz or 500 grams, depending on the unit of measure you prefer.
Decide on the superfat percentage you want. I suggest 5% if you don't have a preference.
Decide on the lye concentration you want. Try 33% if you do not have a preference. edit: This is not "water as % of oils" just to be clear.
Go to soapee.com or soapcalc.net to calculate the numbers for the fats, the NaOH, and the water.


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## jcandleattic (Feb 15, 2018)

DeeAnna said:


> I am not willing to give you a complete recipe, not because I don't care to share one (that doesn't bother me), but because you really need to learn how to use a soap recipe calculator right from the first. That said, there are some decent recipes at millersoap.com that may suit you. Even if you use someone else's recipe, don't trust their numbers. You should always, always run a recipe through a soap recipe calculator so YOU know the numbers are going to make safe soap.
> 
> Many soap recipes fall in these ranges for the fats you want to use --
> 15-30% coconut oil
> ...


You said all that much better than I did.


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## SoapAddict415 (Feb 15, 2018)

Keep in mind that too much coconut oil can be drying. I'd try 25% or less for your CO.


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## Zany_in_CO (Feb 15, 2018)

Before doing this, tho, you may want to go to the Beginner's Forum, find the Sticky "Learn to Soap Online", scroll down to Lovin' Soap Tutorials to learn more.

Assuming you have safety gear, all necessary equipment and a basic understanding of proper soaping techniques...  calculate your lye and water amount:

To calculate your lye amount, go to *http://soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp*
It's pretty self-explanatory. Just follow the numbers and tick the options you want.

Choose "NaOH" (Sodium Hydroxide) for the lye to make hard bars.
Choose "Ounces" (or grams) -- your preference
Enter the size batch you want to make, i.e. "16 oz." or "500g" , for a trial batch 
Leave the *default amounts* *as is* for the rest of the boxes, i.e., 38% water; 5% superfat; 0.5% fragrance. You will learn more options in due time, but these are good for Newbies.
Go to the list of oils and choose
Olive oil, pomace or Olive oil 50%
Palm oil 30%
Coconut oil 20%

Tick Calculate and then "View..." to see results

Take some time to look at the recommended values vs. your results. If your results fall within the recommended values then you're good to go. 

When you have time, go back and play with the % of oils to see how it changes the results, i.e., 33.3% of each oil. Also note the amount/type of fatty acids in your formula. Pause over each one for info about what that particular fatty acid brings to the party. This is key information for creating future formulas.

Good luck and HAPPY SOAPING


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## DianaMoon (Feb 22, 2018)

Hi Guys -
I totally understand not giving newbs total step by step directions - we gotta learn how to use that soap calc, and I think I have.
But do you have any tips and tricks to make the basic recipe - oils we should avoid, and so on. I want to make a basic hard soap with a moderate amount of lather. I'm not even sure I'll add fragrance.
BTW, I've read conflicting stuff already. In Susan Miller Cavitch's book she recommends adding grapefruit extract to retard spoilage, and on the website "Sweet Cakes" (which ironically I learned about from Susan's book) it says:
"*Do not use grapefruit seed extract (GSE)* -- it is a trace accelerator and if your soap is made properly, there is no need to preserve it."
Also on Sweet Cakes:
*"DO NOT* use a hand blender (also known as a stick blender) *at all* once you've added fragrance to your soap mixture (although of course you may feel free to use it before this point)."
I've seen some YouTubers who do use the stick blender to add fragrance. What do you say? (I intend to use a paint mixer anyway.)
Sweet Cakes:
"Do not over-insulate.  Profusely sweating soap is the beginning of disaster."
Does this mean, do not cover the "pudding" (that's what I call the trace you pour into a mold" with towels?
I think I have the basic process down, but these little things are puzzling. 
Thanks!!​


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## DeeAnna (Feb 22, 2018)

Soap doesn't need a preservative. Even if it did, GSE has been totally discredited as a preservative.

In a blog post by the Majestic Mountain Sage staff, I found this: "...Susan Miller Cavitch recommends GSE in her soapmaking books. We feel this is entirely because she leaves so much excess fat in the soap something must be done to protect the oil from going rancid. ... In Susan's first book she has excess fat ranging from 13 to 16 percent...." Source: https://www.thesage.com/recipes/recipe-exec/.State/Display/id/24

Also see: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/soap-without-grapefruit-seed-extract.33736/

_"...tips and tricks to make the basic recipe - oils we should avoid, and so on. I want to make a basic hard soap with a moderate amount of lather...." _

Um, well, what about the suggestions given in earlier posts in this thread -- didn't they give you any ideas? Coconut, palm (or lard), and olive oil are the classic trilogy of soaping fats. You can't go wrong with them.

_"...DO NOT use a hand blender (also known as a stick blender) at all once you've added fragrance to your soap..."_

This can be good advice, but it's not always necessary. Some fragrances (not all, but some) accelerate trace and those are best stirred into the soap batter by hand. But many well-behaved fragrances can be stick blended into the fats before you add the lye and then the whole thing stick blended to trace.

I imagine Sweet Cakes is giving this conservative advice to keep newbies out of trouble. When presenting beginning concepts, teachers have to simplify things to get people started on the right track without overwhelming them with all the possible permutations of how things can be done. This particular advice sounds like that kind of simplification. It can't hurt to just stir the fragrance in by hand, but it might not be necessary.

_"...Do not over-insulate. ..."_

As far as putting too much insulation on the soap in the mold -- there is truth in that. I'd say a new soaper can get into more serious problems by over insulating than by not insulating enough. But what is too much and what is about right is something one learns from experience.

I personally never insulate my soap with towels or things like that. I lightly cover the top with wax paper or paper towels to keep the dust off and maybe hold in a small bit of heat. That's what works best for me. Other people do cover their soap with towels, but that's what they've learned works for them.


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## DianaMoon (Feb 22, 2018)

"m, well, what about the suggestions given in earlier posts in this thread -- didn't they give you any ideas? Coconut, palm (or lard), and olive oil are the classic trilogy of soaping fats. You can't go wrong with them."
Yes, of course, and I appreciate every bit of info I get here. I meant something like, never add jojoba to olive...the product will seize up and you'll throw it all out... that sort of thing.... never mind!


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## Zany_in_CO (Feb 23, 2018)

Diana, dear heart, please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm wondering if you aren't over-thinking this a bit? You have a lot to learn and if you wait until every little question you have is answered you may never "get off the pot" and get some soap made ... and also wear down those of us who are willing to help. Time to get your feet wet, grasshopper.


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## BattleGnome (Feb 23, 2018)

DianaMoon said:


> I meant something like, never add jojoba to olive...the product will seize up and you'll throw it all out... that sort of thing.... never mind!



There are very few if any rules like that. What works for one person may not for the next and there are very few reasons to throw out a batch of soap. 9 times out of 10 you can fix it somehow, just start a new thread asking for advice.


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## lsg (Feb 23, 2018)

The only suggestion about using butters in CP soap is to not use them at more than 15%.  I use mostly shea butter, if I use any butter at all.


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## DeeAnna (Feb 23, 2018)

DianaMoon said:


> ...I meant something like, never add jojoba to olive...the product will seize up and you'll throw it all out... that sort of thing.... never mind!



There are a few recipes that people share here that I think would make terrible soap, but the vast majority are fine. If a person sticks with the classic soaping fats -- coconut, palm kernel, lard, palm, olive, etc. -- it's hard to go astray. Add in some shea, cocoa butter, or castor if you want. Leave the exotic and expensive ingredients -- jojoba for example -- for another day.

Run every recipe through a soap recipe calculator to make sure YOU know the recipe is calculated correctly. Do not blindly trust anyone else's numbers -- even the best soapers make typos.


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## Happy2018 (Feb 23, 2018)

HI,

Also fairly new to soap making,(a couple of months) and would suggest that you make small batches, until you find something you like.

And gives you lots of time to watch how the ingredients change through the process.

DeeAnna mentioned                    http://soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp

What is really good about that site, is the site, takes the time to explain what everything means on the calculator:          http://soapcalc.net/info/helptext.asp


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## earlene (Feb 23, 2018)

Limit Castor oil to 3-5% of your soaping oils (if you use it to enhance/support bubbles/lather) - you can go higher, but not much as it will make the soap soft and sticky.

Avoid high superfat (using the default in a given lye calculator is fine).  

If you don't want or don't have a stick blender, limit your use of oils high in oleic acid (see this link) because they take longer to trace, especially when done by hand mixing.   

In the beginning, use easily accessible oils/fats, such as ones you can purchase at grocery store, but avoid the exotic expensive oils.  At least until you have become comfortable making soap and have a few successful batches under your belt.  After that, you can branch out if you like.

Read reviews of all fragrances you plan to use before you start using them.  Watch for words such as 'accelerates' 'rices or causes ricing' 'discolors', as they indicate problems may often occur when using them and I would recommend beginners don't bother with problematic fragrances.  

Avoid using colorants that are not tested for use for the type of soaping you plan to do.  For example, don't use MP colorants in CP or HP soap as you may get no color at all, and waste money.  Buy from reputable sources (ask us here and we will be glad to help.)

As a beginner, avoid using ingredients that require a lot of extra considerations.  Leave those for after you have become more proficient with simple soap.


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## dixiedragon (Feb 23, 2018)

Diana and M05 - welcome to the forum and the hobby!
Diana, I do think you are overthinking a bit - don't let the soap intimidate you! LOL.

It's a bit difficult to answer your questions exactly, because there are a lot of variables. I do think that both Susan Miller Cavich's book and Sweetcakes are erring on the safe/conservative side.

Here is a good, basic simple recipe.

Lard 50%
Coconut 20%
Olive 25%
Castor 5%
5% superfat

You can substitute palm or tallow for lard - however, lard is wonderful in that it is a slow tracing hard oil, which is actually pretty unusual. A soap that is 50% tallow or palm is going to trace more quickly. lard buys you time.

I think that FOs have come a LONG way in the last 10 years or so. Many vendors have customer reviews where people report how the FOs performed. Take a moment to read through the reviews of the FO you will be using.

Making your first batch unscented is a great idea. If you really want to add scent, you can pick up an EO (essential oil) from a health food store - I recommend lavender, mint or lemongrass. These behaves very well in soap and are reasonably priced.

As for the rules - off if my head -
Don't use an aluminum pot! Use stainless steel, or a plastic bucket. Look for a 2 or 5 on the bottom of the plastic bucket.
Add the lye to the water, not the water to the lye.
Use your stick blender in short blasts - blast for 3 seconds or so, stir, then blast again.


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## DianaMoon (Feb 24, 2018)

For those who think I'm overthinking - well, I like to gather as much info as possible beforehand esp. when I am dealing with something potentially hazardous. For example, I would have mixed my lye solution in glass if I hadn't read in this forum not to do that. And so on.  I've gotten a lot of great information here.
But yeah, there is a point where you have to just throw caution to the winds and take on the spirit of the kid on Youtube who mixed soap in a plastic cup with a screwdriver. No kidding.
I'm taking the plunge today & I have a quick question about superfatting.

I thought I understood the concept of superfatting.  But on Bramble Berry I read a conversation about "adding" the extra oils after the lye is added. Huh? I thought that the superfatting was baked into the calculations on Soap Calc, and that it refers to the oil that was not saponified by the lye.  You just measure out the oil they recommend at the outset and work with that.
Confused - can someone help?

OK, off to the hardware store for my safety equipment & Rooto & maybe castor oil (if I don't find that I'll go with what I've got in the house, OO and coconut, and possibly jojoba, but I think I'll leave that out of my 1st experiment.)​


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## Snowbell (Feb 24, 2018)

I've also seen YouTube videos and read bloggers stating that. But by being on this forum you'll learn that you don't get to choose what oil or oils become your supper fat. Just take a big breath and have fun with it. Read the safety pages if you need a recap. That's the most important. Keep you recipes simple until you learn about trace. Have fun!


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## DeeAnna (Feb 24, 2018)

What Snowbell said. The advice on Brambleberry can be really odd sometimes.

There's no rule that says you have to add all the fats up front when you start to make soap. Sometimes there are good reasons why I hold back some fat to add later, but that happens very seldom. 

The advice about "adding your superfat at trace" is a nice idea that is totally wrong, especially if you're using a cold process method.

If you're absent minded like me, there's a downside to holding back some fat -- it's really easy to forget to add it.


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## Zany_in_CO (Feb 24, 2018)

Back in the dark ages when I first started soaping, taking a "*lye discount*" meant just that, you discounted the NaOH amount by a certain percent to leave some of the fats unsaponified. The term "*superfat*" applied to fats you added after trace (CP) or after the cook (HP). The result is essentially the same. 

Then along came SoapCalc that lumped the *lye discount* into the formula and called it *superfat*.  Superfat is the general term we use whether we include the discount within the calculation or add a little something at the end.  Hope that makes sense.

Note: Taking a lye discount during the formulation vs. adding a superfat at the end is a matter of personal preference.


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## DeeAnna (Feb 24, 2018)

There is a real mathematical difference between (a) discounting the lye versus (b) adding additional fat. A lye discount (a) takes the saponification value into consideration. Superfat (b) is a given amount of extra fat based on a simple percentage of the total starting fat in the recipe.

The two are approximately the same if the saponification values for the fats are close to the average sap value for all fats in the recipe. If the sap values of the fats vary widely from the average sap value, then (a) and (b) will not be the same.

But we've gone hammer and tong on this topic in the past, and I've not been able to explain it well enough to make sense in writing. So I'll stop here and just say ... it's a difference that is pretty much ignored and one that even I don't worry too much about. The soap recipe calculators are set up to calculate a lye discount, regardless of whether they call it "superfat" or "lye discount."


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## DianaMoon (Feb 25, 2018)

DeeAnna said:


> There are a few recipes that people share here that I think would make terrible soap, but the vast majority are fine. If a person sticks with the classic soaping fats -- coconut, palm kernel, lard, palm, olive, etc. -- it's hard to go astray. Add in some shea, cocoa butter, or castor if you want. Leave the exotic and expensive ingredients -- jojoba for example -- for another day.
> 
> Run every recipe through a soap recipe calculator to make sure YOU know the recipe is calculated correctly. Do not blindly trust anyone else's numbers -- even the best soapers make typos.



I just happen to have a bunch of jojoba oil from years ago, hanging around. I can't even remember how or why I got it. It would be nice to use and I was curious as to how others have fared with it.


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## penelopejane (Feb 25, 2018)

In Australia jojoba oils is more than ten times the price of olive oil. I don’t think many people would use it in soap for that reason alone.  Most people save it for creams where the qualities of an oil would be more pronounced. 

You can use just about any oil in soap as long as it is fresh and smells good.

Give it a whirl and report back.


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## DianaMoon (Feb 25, 2018)

penelopejane said:


> In Australia jojoba oils is more than ten times the price of olive oil. I don’t think many people would use it in soap for that reason alone.  Most people save it for creams where the qualities of an oil would be more pronounced.
> 
> You can use just about any oil in soap as long as it is fresh and smells good.
> 
> Give it a whirl and report back.



I sure will - maybe I'll make a jojoba-Crisco soap! (In the US Crisco is a very downmarket product.)


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## earlene (Mar 5, 2018)

If you have the jojoba oil and it doesn't smell 'off' and you don't want to save it any longer, and you want to use it in soap, go ahead.  I used it in soap once or twice just because it was sent as free sample and I had no interest for making anything but soap.  So go with it.  I used only what I had on hand, which was a really small amount really, so no more than say 5% of the oils was jojoba.  Probably more like 3%.  I don't want to go search my notes to be sure.


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## toxikon (Mar 5, 2018)

When I first joined the forum, here's what I did to learn as much as I could: 

Google search the forum! All you have to do is type this into Google:


```
site:soapmakingforum.com your search term
```

Obviously replace "your search term" with whatever you're searching for.

Not sure what exactly "superfat" means? Try this:


```
site:soapmakingforum.com what is superfat
```

Want to know if you can use jojoba oil in your soap? Try:


```
site:soapmakingforum.com jojoba oil soap
```

Then you'll see all the previous threads and see if your question can be answered.

I don't mean to sound condescending, but it really is a great way to get your questions answered. You can even search for tried-and-true recipes that generous forum members have posted. There's literally a wealth of info on this forum and all you have to do is look!


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## cmzaha (Mar 5, 2018)

Here is a link to a Soapqueen single oil test. Scroll down and you will find a jojoba oil test soap. Granted it is a single oil soap but you will see some of the properties it lends to soap. I also would keep it at a low percentage. If it is still good I would use it in a lip balm or lotion bars


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## DianaMoon (Mar 5, 2018)

earlene said:


> If you have the jojoba oil and it doesn't smell 'off' and you don't want to save it any longer, and you want to use it in soap, go ahead.  I used it in soap once or twice just because it was sent as free sample and I had no interest for making anything but soap.  So go with it.  I used only what I had on hand, which was a really small amount really, so no more than say 5% of the oils was jojoba.  Probably more like 3%.  I don't want to go search my notes to be sure.



Does it add anything to soap? Someone here said that jojoba doesn't really saponify.


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## cmzaha (Mar 5, 2018)

In my opinion it adds nothing to soap other than an expensive ingredient to wash down the drain. But you need to try it yourself to know for sure


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## RacerSpuffy (Mar 5, 2018)

DianaMoon said:


> Does it add anything to soap? Someone here said that jojoba doesn't really saponify.


I'm pretty new to soap making myself, did my first batches in mid Dec '17, I wouldn't use a whole lot of jojoba oil in the soap yet for one simple reason.  If you experiment and come across a blend you really like (and you are confident the jojoba can hold out a bit longer without going bad), then re-make it, with a few percent jojoba oil in it (re-running the ingredients through a soap calc) and then you could potentially sell or give it away as a 'higher value' soap.  A lot of people like more exotic sounding oils in their soap just because they read it is there, whether or not it adds any actual beneficial properties.


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## DianaMoon (Mar 5, 2018)

RacerSpuffy said:


> If you experiment and come across a blend you really like (and you are confident the jojoba can hold out a bit longer without going bad),



It's my understanding that jojoba doesn't go bad.

My next batch will consist of three ingredients: castor oil, cocoa butter and beef tallow, because I have them (40/20/40 at 33% lye, 5% superfat).

I ran them thru the Soap Calc, and got a really weird cleansing value: THREE.

Soap Bar Quality	Range	Your Recipe
Hardness	29 - 54	           48
Cleansing	12 - 22	             3
Conditioning	44 - 69	            51
Bubbly	14 - 46	                   21
Creamy	16 - 48	                   62
Iodine	41 - 70	                   50
INS	136 - 165	                   141

What is going on here?


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## jcandleattic (Mar 5, 2018)

All soap cleans. The cleansing number refers to how stripping an oil can be. 
I rarely pay attention to the numbers on a calculator. They are guidelines at best. 

The oils you are planning on using are less stripping so will have a lower cleansing #. 
Look at a 100% Olive Oil soap - I believe the cleansing number is 0 but yet, it's a great bar of soap that will get you clean.


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## DianaMoon (Mar 5, 2018)

jcandleattic said:


> All soap cleans. The cleansing number refers to how stripping an oil can be.
> I rarely pay attention to the numbers on a calculator. They are guidelines at best.
> 
> The oils you are planning on using are less stripping so will have a lower cleansing #.
> Look at a 100% Olive Oil soap - I believe the cleansing number is 0 but yet, it's a great bar of soap that will get you clean.



Thanks. I don't happen to like a stripping soap anyway. I did run a 100% olive calc and saw that.


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## DeeAnna (Mar 5, 2018)

Another issue you might want to think about -- Castor at 40% of your fats (if I'm following your post correctly) is not going to give you the super bubbly, super creamy lather that "the numbers" are saying you should get. 

Castor enhances and stabilizes the lather created by the other kinds of soap in your bar. It doesn't, of itself, make a lot of lather. The fats without castor needs to be formulated to be decently bubbly on their own -- then add a bit of castor to enhance the lather. If I had only castor, tallow, and cocoa butter and I had to use each one in multiples of 20%, I'd be more inclined to do 20% castor, 20% cocoa butter, and 60% tallow. To encourage lather, I'd add sugar or beer.


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## DianaMoon (Mar 5, 2018)

DeeAnna said:


> Another issue you might want to think about -- Castor at 40% of your fats (if I'm following your post correctly) is not going to give you the super bubbly, super creamy lather that "the numbers" are saying you should get.
> 
> Castor enhances and stabilizes the lather created by the other kinds of soap in your bar. It doesn't, of itself, make a lot of lather. The fats without castor needs to be formulated to be decently bubbly on their own -- then add a bit of castor to enhance the lather. If I had only castor, tallow, and cocoa butter and I had to use each one in multiples of 20%, I'd be more inclined to do 20% castor, 20% cocoa butter, and 60% tallow. To encourage lather, I'd add sugar or beer.



Oy, gave the ingredients/percentages in the wrong order. 

Meant to write Cocoa Butter/Castor/Beef Tallow - 40/20/40. 

But I'll try your proportions as well, and add sugar.


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## penelopejane (Mar 5, 2018)

You might find that castor oil at 20% makes a sticky soap. 

I keep it at or under 5% in soap.


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## Spice (Mar 6, 2018)

DianaMoon said:


> Hi Guys -
> I totally understand not giving newbs total step by step directions - we gotta learn how to use that soap calc, and I think I have.
> But do you have any tips and tricks to make the basic recipe - oils we should avoid, and so on. I want to make a basic hard soap with a moderate amount of lather. I'm not even sure I'll add fragrance.
> BTW, I've read conflicting stuff already. In Susan Miller Cavitch's book she recommends adding grapefruit extract to retard spoilage, and on the website "Sweet Cakes" (which ironically I learned about from Susan's book) it says:
> ...





DianaMoon said:


> Does it add anything to soap? Someone here said that jojoba doesn't really saponify.





DianaMoon said:


> Oy, gave the ingredients/percentages in the wrong order.
> 
> Meant to write Cocoa Butter/Castor/Beef Tallow - 40/20/40.
> 
> But I'll try your proportions as well, and add sugar.



First, you're asking questions that will be answered when you start to make your own soap. You can get info, research....some, but the real proof will be when you start to make soap. The best teacher is our mistakes.

You will never know if jojoba is an oil you want to use unless you use it, see what it does, and then never use it again. That's if you dont like it.

I believe sugar causes soap to seize. 

making soap is a lot like cooking, get to know your ingredients before you start adding. Would you make chicken soup with beef bouillon? Make your soap and see what happens, now you will have something to talk about. BTW, what is Rooto?


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 6, 2018)

Spice said:


> BTW, what is Rooto?


*Spice: *Not Diana, but Rooto is lye -- 100% NaOH, sold as Drain Cleaner at  Ace Hardware and Lowes among others. On a side note, when I read _"The best teacher is our mistakes."_ that reminded me of something that happened at lunch today. We had Chinese take out. My fortune cookie paper said _"Failure is the Mother of Success." _ So, well said!

*Diana:* Here's a link to a thread that talks about *Rooto* that might be an answer to your question about the "schmutz" you found in your lye solution. Post #17 in particular:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/rooto-lye-users-please-confirm.23371/



DianaMoon said:


> Does it add anything to soap? Someone here said that jojoba doesn't really saponify.


Jojoba "oil" is technically not an oil, but rather a liquid wax. It is said to mimic the natural sebum of skin and is a replacement for sperm whale oil they used in the olden days for the same reason. That's why its best use is for leave-on products. I must confess, tho, I've been thinking about trying it at 100% in LS, just to see, as Spice suggested, what happens, esp. the degree to which it saponifies, if at all.

An easy way to check what it brings to your CP formula is to do what you did for olive oil -- enter it into SoapCalc at 100% and click "Calculate" to get results. In addition to Fatty Acids and Qualities, the SAP Value is located near the bottom of those columns. Not terribly impressive. LOL Like Pine Tar, I'd consider it more of an additive than a saponified fat in the recipe -- Use Rate: 10% max.

I haven't used it in CP but I do add it to LS at 1-2% and it does seem to add something to the finished soap. The shelf life is listed as "indefinite" so that makes it a good choice as a carrier oil for EOs. To help "stick" the fragrance, add the EO(s) to an ounce PPO of jojoba the night before soaping and add it as you normally would your fragrance.  I use it to get the most bang for my buck as a carrier oil with Oakmoss Absolute: 10% Oakmoss to 90% Jojoba Oil.

Okaybye.


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## artemis (Mar 6, 2018)

Spice said:


> I believe sugar causes soap to seize.



Just a quick note: I have never had sugar cause my soap to sieze. I almost always dissolve a little sugar in my water before adding my lye.


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## jcandleattic (Mar 6, 2018)

artemis said:


> Just a quick note: I have never had sugar cause my soap to sieze. I almost always dissolve a little sugar in my water before adding my lye.


Agreed - sugar(s) will help gel, and can overheat soap, but I have also never had sugar(s) seize soap.


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## shunt2011 (Mar 6, 2018)

I'm another who's never had sugar cause an issue with seizing....might cause overheating if you use too much and insulate...learned that really early on.


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 6, 2018)

shunt2011 said:


> I'm another who's never had sugar cause an issue with seizing....might cause overheating if you use too much and insulate...learned that really early on.


So, how much is "too much", Shari? Any other tips? I've never used sugar to bump lather, but I'd like to try it.


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## shunt2011 (Mar 6, 2018)

I use a tsp ppo. I’ve done a T ppo but it tends to heat quote a bit. But I always use milk so that’s got added sugar too.


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## KristaY (Mar 6, 2018)

I use 1 tsp sugar ppo (13 gms ppo) dissolved in the water before adding lye and have never had a problem with overheating. I also really dislike castor oil. It speeds up trace no matter the % and it feels sticky to me but that's just personal opinion. YMMV.


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## Spice (Mar 7, 2018)

jcandleattic said:


> Agreed - sugar(s) will help gel, and can overheat soap, but I have also never had sugar(s) seize soap.


I wasn't sure about that, ok, maybe I should try a little honey in my soap too. That actually sounds good. Thanks.



Zany_in_CO said:


> *Spice: *Not Diana, but Rooto is lye -- 100% NaOH, sold as Drain Cleaner at Ace Hardware and Lowes among others. On a side note, when I read _"The best teacher is our mistakes."_ that reminded me of something that happened at lunch today. We had Chinese take out. My fortune cookie paper said _"Failure is the Mother of Success." _ So, well said!


So if I use Rooto to cure my olives, that's ok, since it takes lye for that? This is a set-up question, because what I really want to say is that, if its not safe for my food, then why would I want to use it for my soap, some one will be paying their hard earned money for a product that I am making cheaply. I dont want to beat a dead horse, but....I hope that the bagel I will be eating tomorrow from the bagel house, is not made with drain cleaner. Dont want to sound rude, if so my apologies.


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## cmzaha (Mar 7, 2018)

Spice said:


> So if I use Rooto to cure my olives, that's ok, since it takes lye for that? This is a set-up question, because what I really want to say is that, if its not safe for my food, then why would I want to use it for my soap, some one will be paying their hard earned money for a product that I am making cheaply. I dont want to beat a dead horse, but....I hope that the bagel I will be eating tomorrow from the bagel house, is not made with drain cleaner. Dont want to sound rude, if so my apologies.


There is food grade NaOH and technical grade and either are fine for soap. I personally am not going to pay the price for food grade when my technical grade works perfectly and Does Not cheapen my soap. I am not making olives or bagels. 100% NaOH drain cleaner is just technical grade. Once the soap is properly made and cured there is no lye left.


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## shunt2011 (Mar 7, 2018)

I agree with the others.  I've used Rooto lye with no issues.  I have no problem using it.  I use both technical grade and food grade depending on cost.  Makes no difference in soap. Making food, different story.


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## Spice (Mar 7, 2018)

shunt2011 said:


> I agree with the others.  I've used Rooto lye with no issues.  I have no problem using it.  I use both technical grade and food grade depending on cost.  Makes no difference in soap. Making food, different story.


Ok.


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 7, 2018)

shunt2011 said:


> I use a tsp ppo. I’ve done a T ppo but it tends to heat quote a bit. But I always use milk so that’s got added sugar too.


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## earlene (Mar 7, 2018)

For me food grade NaOH is cheaper when I include shipping costs. A few folks here have said they can get industrial lye drain cleaner very cheaply, but I have not found that to be the case anywhere I have shopped, including hardware stores, and the like. I have been to all 50 states and I do look for lye on my travels because I often make soap when I travel.  The last state I looked for 'cheap 100% lye drain cleaner was Lowe's in a town in Arkansas; it cost $14.95 per bottle, the same as it does in Tractor Supply Company in that same town. The cheapest I have yet to find it in any store anywhere so far, has been $13.95 per bottle.  Plus tax, that's still roughly $5.00 more per pound than I pay for food grade lye with shipping included. 

Granted, I have not looked for technical grade lye online for a cost comparison. Maybe one day I will and see what I come up with.

But for now, I have no problem using technical grade lye in the soaps I make when I travel because there is simply no lye left in the soap anyway.  I would need to be convinced that it is in a very tangible way harmful in the finished soap, and I am not convinced.


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## cmzaha (Mar 7, 2018)

earlene said:


> For me food grade NaOH is cheaper when I include shipping costs. A few folks here have said they can get industrial lye drain cleaner very cheaply, but I have not found that to be the case anywhere I have shopped, including hardware stores, and the like. I have been to all 50 states and I do look for lye on my travels because I often make soap when I travel.  The last state I looked for 'cheap 100% lye drain cleaner was Lowe's in a town in Arkansas; it cost $14.95 per bottle, the same as it does in Tractor Supply Company in that same town. The cheapest I have yet to find it in any store anywhere so far, has been $13.95 per bottle.  Plus tax, that's still roughly $5.00 more per pound than I pay for food grade lye with shipping included.
> 
> Granted, I have not looked for technical grade lye online for a cost comparison. Maybe one day I will and see what I come up with.
> 
> But for now, I have no problem using technical grade lye in the soaps I make when I travel because there is simply no lye left in the soap anyway.  I would need to be convinced that it is in a very tangible way harmful in the finished soap, and I am not convinced.


I pay approx $.47 per lb from a chemical supply company, Gallade, in 50lb bags. It always amazes me that their price has not increased in the 6 yrs I have been purchasing from them. I remember when I first started soaping and purchased Rooto from a local hardware store I asked how much I would have to purchase to get a price break and was told 50lbs. I remember thinking I could never use that much, well 7+yrs down the road I am going through 2-3 bags a year. Who knew....


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## jcandleattic (Mar 7, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> I pay approx $.47 per lb from a chemical supply company, Gallade, in 50lb bags. It always amazes me that their price has not increased in the 6 yrs I have been purchasing from them. I remember when I first started soaping and purchased Rooto from a local hardware store I asked how much I would have to purchase to get a price break and was told 50lbs. I remember thinking I could never use that much, well 7+yrs down the road I am going through 2-3 bags a year. Who knew....


I also look for chemical supply stores in my area for my lye. Most places here will require a business license, but not all do, so it's good to shop around. Also most prefer if you pick it up over shipping it, and it's cheaper for all involved for that as well.


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## Spice (Mar 7, 2018)

I wonder how much is label appeal? I use food grade NaOH, even though we all know that lye does cancel out, my audience does not. I buy from a Chem Company in Sac, CA, a lb comes to 2.40, the break down is do able for the price of my soap. Since I have this face that I make when talking to people (which I can't stand), if I was asked, about the NaOH that I use, I would say, "Rooto/Draino". I would never see that person again. So for 2.40/lb, .15/Oz ( I use 8 Oz=1.20),/17 bars=.07 of overhead/bar; so for  label appeal, less stress, and a happy, bubbly answer to some one. I will keep doing what I am doing, but.....hey, its all good, we get soap, we get on and as long as it comes out suds.....that's no lye.


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## jcandleattic (Mar 7, 2018)

Spice said:


> I wonder how much is label appeal


For lye? Not sure it matters unless you purposely point it out, because INCI is still sodium hydroxide no matter whether it's food grade or technical grade. 
I have never ever, been asked what brand of lye I use. Ever.


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## shunt2011 (Mar 7, 2018)

I don’t list food grade or technical.  I list sodium hydroxide.  I’ve never ever had anyone ask. Other than do I use lye.


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## cmzaha (Mar 7, 2018)

jcandleattic said:


> I also look for chemical supply stores in my area for my lye. Most places here will require a business license, but not all do, so it's good to shop around. Also most prefer if you pick it up over shipping it, and it's cheaper for all involved for that as well.


I had to show my resale license in order to purchase from them and California Driver License. Also it has to be picked up in a truck with enclosed bed or in a car with a separate trunk. No SUV's, or they ship to a commercial/business address not residential. But the price difference is worth the little bit of hassle.

I also only list Sodium Hydroxide and Potassium Hydroxide on my label. Very few customers ask about it, other than wanting to know what it is. I have never had anyone ask if it is food grade, also most people do not know lye is used in curing some food items and used in baked goods, such as bagels and pretzels. Just a little side note, FDA does not recognize the term saponified oils of.....ujnless that has changed


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## DianaMoon (Mar 7, 2018)

Zany_in_CO said:


> I use it to get the most bang for my buck as a carrier oil with Oakmoss Absolute: 10% Oakmoss to 90% Jojoba Oil.



That's a great idea. I have some bottles w/droppers on order and i'll use my jojoba to dilute the stuff I have.


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## jcandleattic (Mar 7, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> FDA does not recognize the term saponified oils of.....ujnless that has changed


It has not changed.


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