# My first CPLS



## MullersLaneFarm (Jan 5, 2018)

I haven't been this excited about making soap in well over a decade!

I've been reading posts here and on the FB group CPLS, pouring over files, recipes and watching videos for 3 weeks.

I'm not one to just grab someone else's recipe and go with it (what fun is there in that?) 
My recipe:







I used 1:2:1 water:glycerin:total lye for my lye solution

Of course I couldn't stick with just that ... not with a little jar of honey sitting within finger's reach.  While I was stick blending the to emulsify, I added a little less than a teaspoon of honey because ... well, I'm a beekeeper and everything is better with honey! 

Of course, that made the beautiful amber color turn a dark brown.  I'm okay with that because I plan on putting the LS into ceramic pump bottles.

I stick blended about 10 minutes, covered with plastic wrap and left it alone for 20 minutes and decided to take a look ....






Pulled my little spatula around ...






A couple stirs ...






So ..... is it looking okay??

I'd like to hear opinions (good & bad) about the recipe.

During dilution, I plan on adding 3% sodium lactate, 1.96% EDTA & .15% polysorbate 80


ETA:  Holy crow!!  I just checked it ... just a little over an hour after I poured the lye into the oils and it has No Zap!  How can this be??  (and my hands feel great!)


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## toxikon (Jan 5, 2018)

Looks nice to me! I've only made liquid soap once and mine looked very similar and diluted very nicely.

The dilution rate I used was 1 part paste to .62 part water and it came out thick like honey. Remember - you can always add more water if you want it thinner, but you can't to the opposite.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 5, 2018)

Nice job! I love it when my soap is saponified before I'm done cleaning up. It makes me feel like such a miracle worker. :mrgreen:

My current hypothesis is you want the oleic to be somewhere around 45% to 55% give or take to get a syrupy thickness by dilution alone. Too little oleic and it doesn't want to get thick at all (coconut oil LS for example). Too much oleic and you have to dilute the soap so much that it's not useful (100% olive oil LS for example). This thought of mine is a work in progress, so I might change my tune as I learn more. 

You have 46% oleic acid in the recipe, so you're in the realm. The recipe I normally use has about 50% oleic, and I dilute at about the same rate as Toxicon or maybe a bit more water. New recipes can be tricky, however, so sneak up on the dilution. I'm curious to know how your paste dilutes for you and whether it fits with my theory or proves me wrong. 

Question -- Can you shed some light on your use of about 2% EDTA? Reason why I ask is that I typically use 0.5% EDTA powder based on the weight of fats with good results. I've gone as high as 3% and didn't see any extra benefit compared with 0.5%.


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## Susie (Jan 5, 2018)

0.5% EDTA works as well as higher.  I tried all sorts of concentrations.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jan 5, 2018)

DeeAnna said:


> Nice job! I love it when my soap is saponified before I'm done cleaning up. It makes me feel like such a miracle worker. :mrgreen:


  That describes how I was feeling! 



> My current hypothesis is you want the oleic to be somewhere around 45% to 55% give or take to get a syrupy thickness by dilution alone.
> 
> I'm curious to know how your paste dilutes for you and whether it fits with my theory or proves me wrong.



Oleic is 44%, but I used regular Safflower so Linoleic is at 15% also. My skin loves linoleic in bar soap.

I've started dilution with 1 part paste to .31 part water (with SL, EDTA & Poly 80).  I put it in a half gallon canning jar, mashed the paste a bit, stuck it in a pan with hot water and put it on the wood stove while I cooked supper.  I had to go out tonight for a few hours so the jar in the pot sat on the counter.

The paste has absorbed the water.  It's back on the wood stove. I think I'll try a 1 part paste to .15 part water ... should I add more SL??



> Question -- Can you shed some light on your use of about 2% EDTA? Reason why I ask is that I typically use 0.5% EDTA powder based on the weight of fats with good results. I've gone as high as 3% and didn't see any extra benefit compared with 0.5%.



I based the 2% on IrishLass's comments in her tutorial.  I've not used EDTA before so I figured this was a good place to start.  

We have very mineral rich water here on the homestead (nice way of saying "hard water") :mrgreen:


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## Zany_in_CO (Jan 6, 2018)




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## Susie (Jan 6, 2018)

MullersLaneFarm said:


> That describes how I was feeling!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No need for more SL.  You probably need more water.  About 0.62-0.75:1 rather than 0.15:1.  But add slowly.  Add say 0.35 first, see how it goes, then add more if needed.


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## Obsidian (Jan 6, 2018)

Why use dual lye for LS? I've never made cpls before but I've been meaning to try.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 6, 2018)

MullersLaneFarm said:


> ...I based the 2% on IrishLass's comments in her tutorial.  I've not used EDTA before so I figured this was a good place to start.



Ah, I see now. I talk about EDTA at 0.5% as the powder and you're talking about it as a diluted solution. You're still using more than I do -- you're using ~0.8% as powder, but that's a more typical rate. 

Since IL wrote her tutorial, we've discovered we can make EDTA solution at a 50% concentration. That can make the math a bit easier compared with the 39% version.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 6, 2018)

Duplicate


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## DeeAnna (Jan 6, 2018)

MullersLaneFarm said:


> ...I based the 2% on IrishLass's comments in her tutorial.  I've not used EDTA before so I figured this was a good place to start.



Ah, I see now. I talk about EDTA at 0.5% as the powder and you're talking about it as a diluted solution. You're still using more than I do -- you're using 1.25% as powder, but that's a more typical rate. 

Since IL wrote her tutorial, we've discovered we can make EDTA solution at a 50% concentration. That can make  the math a bit easier compared with the 39% version


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## DeeAnna (Jan 6, 2018)

Obsidian said:


> Why use dual lye for LS? I've never made cpls before but I've been meaning to try.



Some people claim the diluted soap is thicker, all other things being equal. Others report it makes no difference. I think Susie has experimented with this and didn't find any particular benefit.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jan 6, 2018)

Susie said:


> No need for more SL.  You probably need more water.  About 0.62-0.75:1 rather than 0.15:1.  But add slowly.  Add say 0.35 first, see how it goes, then add more if needed.



I started with 0.31:1 dilution increased twice (0.15:1 of original weight each time) bringing the dilution up to 0.62:1.  By this time it was 2:00 AM  and I went to bed.

This morning it was thick as sorghum molasses. I diluted another 0.31:1 (original weight).  I like the viscosity of it now. It is like a thinned honey.

I've read that EO/FO can thin LS so I'll be playing with that today.



Obsidian said:


> Why use dual lye for LS? I've never made cpls before but I've been meaning to try.



I've read that it made the soap thicker & I wanted a thicker LS.  My husband also uses a brush for shaving & I wanted to see how the paste holds up.  I know (think) the oils I used won't hold up for sustained lather needed for shaving, but I think everything I learned about oils and bar soap is out the window ...  This soap is throwing out large bubbles that are sustaining.  That surprises me since the stearic is so low and the oleics are so high.



DeeAnna said:


> Since IL wrote her tutorial, we've discovered we can make EDTA solution at a 50% concentration. That can make  the math a bit easier compared with the 39% version



Hmmm ...  now you tell me!   LOL!


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## HowieRoll (Jan 6, 2018)

MullersLaneFarm said:


> I've read that EO/FO can thin LS so I'll be playing with that today.



I've actually experienced the opposite effect.  I've only made 2 different batches of LS paste and dilute as we need more, but I will dilute to the point all paste is dissolved and then when I add the EO blends (it's happened with mint/eucalyptus blends and lavender/patchouli blends) the soap gets really thick - like thicker than honey thick.  I end up adding a little bit of water to thin it out again.  Everyone's recipes are different, of course, and I do not use Polysorbate, but just thought I'd share my experience so you aren't surprised if it happens with yours, too!


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## DeeAnna (Jan 6, 2018)

Scents can thin LS or thicken it or have no effect. It's always best to test on a sample.


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## Obsidian (Jan 6, 2018)

WEll, I tried to make cpls today using duel lye and after a hour of trying to get the separated batter to stay together, I dumped it in the crock pot. Same thing happened last time too when using just KOH. 
I don't think I'm meant to make cpls, it just stumps me. You who get it right must be magicians.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 6, 2018)

I sometimes have to warm my LS to get it revved up enough to suit my expectations. This is especially helpful when I make all-water recipe (as opposed to a 1/2 glycerin, 1/2 water version).

I heat my fats to around 160-170 F (70-75 C) and don't cool my KOH solution at all before mixing it with the fats.  (I don't masterbatch my KOH -- just make it as I need it.) The extra warmth usually does the trick. It still goes through that sulky stage for awhile when it needs a thorough stick blending, but the paste comes together in about 1/2 hour of mixing briefly every 5-10 minutes. I don't cook the paste -- I just start it warmer than usual.

Another tip that I have yet to try (but has a lot of merit) is Susie's suggestion to add 1/2 to 1 ounce of grated NaOH (bar) soap to the batter. That will serve as an emulsifier when the soap batter is still in that sulky "I don' wanna" stage. I think you could also add KOH soap paste and get a similar benefit, but that's just a guess on my part.


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## Arimara (Jan 6, 2018)

Congrats. Sorry if this reply is short. I haven't really been able to type too much without some pain. in any case, that soap looks great.


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## Obsidian (Jan 6, 2018)

DeeAnna said:


> I sometimes have to warm my LS to get it revved up enough to suit my expectations. This is especially helpful when I make all-water recipe (as opposed to a 1/2 glycerin, 1/2 water version).
> 
> I heat my fats to around 160-170 F (70-75 C) and don't cool my KOH solution at all before mixing it with the fats.  (I don't masterbatch my KOH -- just make it as I need it.) The extra warmth usually does the trick. It still goes through that sulky stage for awhile when it needs a thorough stick blending, but the paste comes together in about 1/2 hour of mixing briefly every 5-10 minutes. I don't cook the paste -- I just start it warmer than usual.
> 
> Another tip that I have yet to try (but has a lot of merit) is Susie's suggestion to add 1/2 to 1 ounce of grated NaOH (bar) soap to the batter. That will serve as an emulsifier when the soap batter is still in that sulky "I don' wanna" stage. I think you could also add KOH soap paste and get a similar benefit, but that's just a guess on my part.



Thank you. For some reason I was thinking that it would trace quickly like regular CP.
I'm sure the temp and high water affected it too. I used 3:1 water:lye and it almost behaved like the -SF castile we all made. It didn't go into the rubber ball stage but it had a weird texture and floated around on a layer of water.

It was a small batch too so it cooled off really quick. After I cooked it for awhile, it went into trace but still had water underneath. One more hit with the SB finally got it together. It eventually turned into proper paste.

If I like the recipe and make it again, I'll use some glycerin.


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jan 7, 2018)

I finally got the consistency I was after ... and it hasn't thickened up over night (it gets pretty cold in here when the wood stove dies down at night)






It appears to be my dilution for this recipe of dual lye, 2:1: glycerin:water:lye, and high oleics & lineolics is 1.74:1 (wateraste)

This is scented with Cassia & Patchouli ...


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## DeeAnna (Jan 7, 2018)

DeeAnna said:


> Ah, I see now. I talk about EDTA at 0.5% as the powder and you're talking about it as a diluted solution. You're still using more than I do -- you're using *1.25%* as powder, but that's a more typical rate....



Correction -- I should have written: "...you're using about *0.8%* as powder, but that's a more typical rate..."

That's what I get for trying to do math in my head. :think:


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## Susie (Jan 7, 2018)

Obsidian said:


> WEll, I tried to make cpls today using duel lye and after a hour of trying to get the separated batter to stay together, I dumped it in the crock pot. Same thing happened last time too when using just KOH.
> I don't think I'm meant to make cpls, it just stumps me. You who get it right must be magicians.



I do like DeeAnna, I melt my oils in my crock pot, add the glycerin, mix my KOH and water, then while the KOH/water is still hot, pour it in, turn off the crock pot and start stick blending.  If I am not using glycerin, I use a dab of paste or some grated KOH to kick start trace.  If I am lazy, I get it to emulsion, then walk away.  But I don't soap cold/room temperature when doing CPLS.  I just get everything melted/mixed then stick blend.  No further cooking, but I am definitely not soaping cold.  The only reason I use my crock pot is that I can melt the oils and dilute using the same vessel, so I have less dishes to wash.


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## Obsidian (Jan 7, 2018)

I'll try mixing in a warm crock pot next time and maybe use less water.
Dilute it today, so far it's going well and seems like it's going to be a nice mild soap. Used lard and neem for something different.


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