# Nothing smells strong enough!



## jblaney (Jan 12, 2013)

I have been testing fragrances over the last few months.   I have so many that my husband asked me if I was obsessed with acquiring fragrances.  I left a bunch out and that was a big mistake.   Since then I have put them back in my soaping closets hoping he will forget he ever saw them. :shock:

Anyway, I feel like no matter how much fragrance I use, I never feel like it's strong enough.   The only fragrance that is really strong for me is Bonsai by BB.   That sucker is strong.  I'm wondering if it's just not possible to get a super strong fragrance with the fragrance oils that are available, or if I'm just becoming immune to the fragrances since I smell them every day.  I do CP soap and usually fragrance 1 oz PPO.   Maybe I should try 1 1/2 oz PPO.   I know each fragrance is different, so I try to start at 1 oz, but it never seems like enough for me.   What are your thoughts?


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## Genny (Jan 12, 2013)

When are you adding the fo's & what ones are you using.  I have no fo's that I need to go as high as 1 oz per lb of oils for.  Is there any fo's out there that are safe at 1 1/2 oz ppo?  

It is quite possible that you have olfactory adaptation from smelling them constantly.  I'd have someone that isn't around your soaps smell them & tell you what they think.


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## Maythorn (Jan 12, 2013)

I use 1 oz fo per pound oils.  Much more than than and you could have oily soap.  I've had trouble with scents fading and if they're not good and strong in the bottle I don't soap them.  I figure why waste the supplies and they're not going to magically transform themselves in cold process.


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## judymoody (Jan 12, 2013)

It's probably your sniffer, assuming you're purchasing from reputable suppliers like BB, who you mentioned.

But here's a few questions to consider:

Do they smell good OOB to you?

Are you soaping at very high temperatures or CPOP?  It's possible that gelling hot might affect the scent level.  Also I've heard that if you use a lot of deodorized, bleached refined oils (cocoa butter, shea, palm oil, etc.) that they can mute the smell.  Not evident in my experience but I've seen conversation that suggests this might be a factor.

I agree, that going above 1 ounce PPO might not be safe.  Check your suppliers' recommendations for maximum usage level.  I typically scent at 3-4% of my total soaping oils weight.  This works out to between .5 and .7 oz PPO and I haven't gotten any complaints about scent level from people who use my soap.


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## melstan775 (Jan 12, 2013)

Try keeping coffee beams or grounds in a cup. Smell the cup fully before and between fragrances. It's sposed to cleanse the pallet.


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## jblaney (Jan 12, 2013)

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and input.

I soap at different temps depending on the oils/butters I use.   I almost never gel.  I put my fragrance in at light trace.  I buy from BB, SC, Oregon Trails, Camden Grey, ect.   

I actually do have a cup of coffee grounds covered on my sink from when a friend came over to smell my soaps.   He liked some and not others, but he didn't say anything about them not smelling strong enough.   I think I don't smell things as much as others.   My husband smells everything.  One soap we had that I detected almost no smell he thought was too strong.  I thought he was joking because it was practically unscented, but he smelled it and said the scent lingered on his skin which I think would be impossible since there was not really any smell to begin with.

I have a friend coming over soon and she is gong to tell me what she thinks of the scents.   We like the same fragrances so I think she will be a good person to ask if they smell strong enough.

Judymoody - That's interesting to know about deodorized shea, cocoa and palm affecting fragrance.  I don't use them in every recipe.  I hope it doesn't affect the fragrance too much since I don't care for the smell of unrefined shea butter.   I have about  5 pounds and don't know what to do with it because the smell bothers me.  I should test it in soap to see if I can still smell it.   I have one recipe I use 20% shea and that might be a small enough amount that I won't be able to smell it.

Thank you.


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## Body_Basics (Jan 12, 2013)

I dont have a lot of no how with cp but i do know a lot about Essential oils and Fo's.

 you said your putting then in a light trace, whats your temp? When the oils are heated they will smell stronger due to the temp but at the same time your burning off/or using up a lot of the oils aroma. (WHATEVER WAY MAKES MORE SINCE TO YOU I think you should wait untill a thicker trace to add EO FO.

Also if you are using EO are you using only top notes or are you blending your oils and using good base notes?

Third thing are you getting good oils? you could be getting cut oil


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## Maythorn (Jan 12, 2013)

is Spectrum palm shortening deodorized? It's white and doesn't seem to have any odor to it but I never noticed that in pale yellow palm oil either.


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## jblaney (Jan 12, 2013)

I can try waiting longer until I have thicker trace.  I guess I thought it was best to put them in at light trace.  If anyone has thoughts on this, I would like to know please.   

My oils are from Soaper's Choice and Crafter's Choice and I believe those are pretty reputable.

I don't really use EO in my CP soap.


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## judymoody (Jan 12, 2013)

Body_Basics said:


> I dont have a lot of no how with cp but i do know a lot about Essential oils and Fo's.
> 
> you said your putting then in a light trace, whats your temp? When the oils are heated they will smell stronger due to the temp but at the same time your burning off/or using up a lot of the oils aroma. (WHATEVER WAY MAKES MORE SINCE TO YOU I think you should wait untill a thicker trace to add EO FO.
> 
> ...



Whether you add your fragrance at light trace or heavier trace will make no difference regarding its longevity or strength.  Many soapers add FO or EO to their oils before adding lye to make sure they don't forget it on the counter! If you wait too long and the FO accelerates, you run the risk of not incorporating it fully.

Those companies are reputable and I have never heard complaints about them selling cut oils.


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## jblaney (Jan 12, 2013)

Thanks JudyMoody.   I have never added my FO to my oils, but I think I will try this tonight.


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## Body_Basics (Jan 13, 2013)

Once again I beg to differ on temps. temp does play a part in it If not there would be no worries in how you store Oils and where you apply them when wearing. And also I don't even see the reason for burning EO in your home. Temps  of 90 degrees can destroy a oil. Sure you may get some health benefits from burning the oil but not what the oil had the potential to put out if it wasn't over heated. So yes Heat does effect the strength and/or projection, and  longevity of  the scent molecules in EO


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## squigglz (Jan 13, 2013)

Everything I can find states that heat causes the fragrances to dissipate. Which isn't too surprising, since if temperature didn't play a part, we wouldn't have flashpoints.

OP, it sounds like you just don't have a sensitive nose. I'm at the other end of the spectrum with an oversensitive nose, so I always have my fiance or friends give my finished soap a sniff to let me know if it's not strong enough  I found that .5oz PP of FO is plenty when doing hot process.


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## judymoody (Jan 13, 2013)

Body_Basics said:


> Once again I beg to differ on temps. temp does play a part in it If not there would be no worries in how you store Oils and where you apply them when wearing. And also I don't even see the reason for burning EO in your home. Temps  of 90 degrees can destroy a oil. Sure you may get some health benefits from burning the oil but not what the oil had the potential to put out if it wasn't over heated. So yes Heat does effect the strength and/or projection, and  longevity of  the scent molecules in EO



Of course temperature makes a difference.  But any temperature difference at light trace vs. medium or thick trace is negligible.  And to be clear, I'm not talking about adding fragrance as you melt your oils but when your oils and lye are at the appropriate temperature to mix together.  

If you gel, the temperature of the soap batter will get quite hot - in excess of 160 degrees.  As I mentioned in my earlier post, suppressing gel will help to retain as much of the scent as possible.  Obviously a soap batch that has been mixed at 100 degrees F and then popped into the refrigerator or freezer will generate less heat.  But a meaningful temperature difference between light trace vs medium trace?  I don't think so.


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## Hazel (Jan 13, 2013)

Body_Basics said:


> Once again I beg to differ on temps. temp does  play a part in it If not there would be no worries in how you store  Oils and where you apply them when wearing. And also I don't even see  the reason for burning EO in your home. Temps  of 90 degrees can destroy  a oil. Sure you may get some health benefits from burning the oil but  not what the oil had the potential to put out if it wasn't over heated.  So yes Heat does effect the strength and/or projection, and  longevity  of  the scent molecules in EO



The concern about storing EOs is because they have a longer shelf life if stored in cooler temps. Also, sunlight can cause them to break down which is why it's better to store them in dark glass bottles. As for where you wear them, I don't understand this at all. If an EO is added to a leave on product, the only place I'd be concerned about applying it is on the face since facial skin is thinner and can be more sensitive. You actually want the product to be warmed by the skin to help disperse the scent. This is why so many people prefer scented products. 

I've made incense with a blend of EOs and FOs and they've turned out very nice. The people I've given the incense to have given me great feedback. There may not be any health benefits from burning them but the incense made these people happy.  

Anyway, jblaney's concern was about using FOs in soap batches, not burning EOs.




squigglz said:


> Everything I can find states that heat causes the fragrances to dissipate. Which isn't too surprising, since if temperature didn't play a part, we wouldn't have flashpoints.



Flashpoint doesn't have anything to do scent dissipation. A flashpoint is the temperature an oil will catch fire when exposed to a flame. It's also important to know a flashpoint when you're mailing an oil by air. I've heard it's also important to know if you make gel candles. I'm not sure why it is important because I don't make gel candles.

The main problem with fragrances or essential oils in soap isn't from heat. It's from how caustic the lye is and it can destroy or morph a scent. This is why we fondly call it "The Lye Monster". :grin:


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## Maythorn (Jan 14, 2013)

I wonder if adding beeswax will cause your temps to be too high in an effort to keep that wax melted.  When I made Honey soap awhile back it was a challenge to keep the milk from curdling and the wax melted.  The honey made speckles and the scent was really light.  Some OMH are really light as it is.


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## Body_Basics (Jan 14, 2013)

I wrote a long reply and my phone dropped it. I hate android sometimes. I will reply to this later tonight. before i go temps do play a effect on the life of a oil when mixing. and yes i am sure the Lye Monster plays a part.


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