# Soy Wax Use in Soap



## Zany_in_CO (Jan 11, 2021)

While going through files, I found this helpful information about using soy wax in hard bars so I'm posting it here. I believe "Bunny" was an SMF member at one time and a few members may remember her fondly as I do. She was one of my mentors when I first started making soap. I will always be grateful to her for sharing her wisdom and sage advice.

*SOY WAX
Bunny*_ *Posted:* Apr 16 2003, 09:17 AM

You can make great soap with it. No, you don't use it in place of beeswax in soap... beeswax and soy wax have different qualities. Here's what I have found about soy wax in soap (from my own experience): 

1. Soy wax greatly reduces shrinkage/warping in soap bars. 

2. Soy wax does not add lather, so you should not use more than say 50% of it in your soap. The more soy wax you use, the more of a good lathering oil you need to use in addition to it. 

3. It adds density and creaminess to the lather, which is a plus in soaps that are heavy on the coconut or PKO oil. 

4. It makes a great co-partner with olive oil. They complement each other well in the recipes. Use 25% or more olive and 25% soy wax. Add some coconut or PKO as well, and about 10% castor.. you'll get a killer soap. 

5. It is non-drying in soap, and non-irritating. 

6. It takes color EXTREMELY well, and helps anchor scent extremely well. 

7. It can be "plugged in" to the regular "soybean oil" slot in the lye calculators as it has the exact same SAP value as soybean oil.

HAPPY SOAPING!  _


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## ilonaliss (Jan 12, 2021)

This is really interesting, thanks for sharing! Is soy wax you refer to the same soy wax people use for making candles, e.g. C3?


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## Marsi (Jan 12, 2021)

ilonaliss said:


> Is soy wax you refer to the same soy wax people use for making candles, e.g. C3?



kiwimoose is a fan of GW415 and there is a great soy thread Soy Wax Users
this is about GW415 Hydrogenated soy
and this post is a bit technical but a good read GW 415 - Soy Wax


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## Jillyb (Jan 12, 2021)

I love it. Just make sure its got no extra additives... My fam loves my 20% soy 20% Rice bran 15% coconut 20% RSPO Palm 18%Olive (or HO canola)  7% Castor..


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## ilonaliss (Jan 12, 2021)

thanks for the info @Marsi! Would love to try this out, but it looks like GW415 is unavailable in the UK. Most soy wax types are sold out at the moment, and the ones that aren't don't explicitly state "100% hydrogenated soy wax"


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## Marsi (Jan 13, 2021)

ilonaliss said:


> thanks for the info @Marsi! Would love to try this out, but it looks like GW415 is unavailable in the UK. Most soy wax types are sold out at the moment, and the ones that aren't don't explicitly state "100% hydrogenated soy wax"


Eurosoy800 is an alternative

Poth Hille states that Eurosoy800 is made from gmo-free 100% european soy
Soy Wax | Poth Hille

Livemoor shows Eurosoy800 in stock
Eurosoy 800 - Top Quality European Soy Wax


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## SeaSuds (Jan 13, 2021)

@ilonaliss I use Eurosoy800 from Livemore, it's lovely in soap.  I have used it as high as 26% with no issues but have now settled down to 10-12%. You just need to get used to soaping at a higher temperature and I find that I need to CPOP but it's all second nature to me now


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## ilonaliss (Jan 13, 2021)

ah what a great find! you guys are the best  I am just to about to buy some.

thanks for the heads-up @SeaSuds! I've never CPOPed my soaps before so this is going to be an interesting experiment. what's also going to be interesting is finding storage space for the ~10 kg of soaping materials I recently ordered


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## KiwiMoose (Jan 13, 2021)

ilonaliss said:


> ah what a great find! you guys are the best  I am just to about to buy some.
> 
> thanks for the heads-up @SeaSuds! I've never CPOPed my soaps before so this is going to be an interesting experiment. what's also going to be interesting is finding storage space for the ~10 kg of soaping materials I recently ordered


Haha - you'll make room!  We have all been there.  Have you got 100 FOs yet??


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## KiwiMoose (Jan 13, 2021)

No need for CPOPping here right now. It's 29 degrees today.


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## SeaSuds (Jan 14, 2021)

KiwiMoose said:


> It's 29 degrees today.


You should come and have a nice cool lie down on my driveway, it's completely iced over and we cant get down the hill to civilisation


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## ilonaliss (Jan 14, 2021)

KiwiMoose said:


> Haha - you'll make room! We have all been there. Have you got 100 FOs yet??


Ha, I am well on my way! They sit on a shelf next to every possible type of clay


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## ilonaliss (Jan 14, 2021)

Actually, why does soap with soy wax need to be CPOPed? I thought that this was only required when using high% of liquid oils, soaping at low temps, and using natural colorants?


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## SoapSisters (Jan 14, 2021)

I use soy wax at 20 or 25%. I put my soap on a heating pad for a few hours, because I found that if I didn't, I had stearic spots.


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## ilonaliss (Jan 14, 2021)

SoapSisters said:


> I use soy wax at 20 or 25%. I put my soap on a heating pad for a few hours, because I found that if I didn't, I had stearic spots.


ooooh I see! that makes sense


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## maxine289 (Jan 15, 2021)

KiwiMoose said:


> Haha - you'll make room!  We have all been there.  Have you got 100 FOs yet??


I'm up to 83 not including samples sizes.  Wow, I didn't know I had so many!


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## MonicaT73 (Feb 10, 2021)

Hello everyone.
I am new here and I just found this thread, which is very interesting to me as I just did my fourth batch of soap yesterday and used 30% “soy wax” on it. I actually put my entire batch in the fridge because I also substitute 20% of distilled water with “cow whole milk” and I was trying to prevent scorching. I am experimenting with recipes: I would like to keep my soap vegetarian and palm free. Hopefully I’ll get decent results!


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## AliOop (Feb 12, 2021)

ilonaliss said:


> Actually, why does soap with soy wax need to be CPOPed? I thought that this was only required when using high% of liquid oils, soaping at low temps, and using natural colorants?


CPOP can also be used to:

1. reduce the likelihood of soda ash (because it speeds up saponification, which more quickly reduces the amount of unsaponified lye); 

2. brighten or deepen any colors used, including micas, not just natural colors; and

3. speed up unmolding time. I don't personally find this to be the case for my recipe, but others do.


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## voula (Feb 14, 2021)

Cpop ..will someone explain what that is  please ?


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## lsg (Feb 14, 2021)

voula said:


> Cpop ..will someone explain what that is  please ?


Cpop=Cold Process/Oven Process.  Turn on the oven and let it heat to 170*F.  After pouring soap into the mold, pop it into the heated oven and turn off the oven.  Let soap set for several hours in the oven.  This forces the soap to go through an extended gel phase.  I usually leave my soap in the oven overnight to be sure it goes through full gel.


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## voula (Feb 15, 2021)

lsg said:


> Cpop=Cold Process/Oven Process.  Turn on the oven and let it heat to 170*F.  After pouring soap into the mold, pop it into the heated oven and turn off the oven.  Let soap set for several hours in the oven.  This forces the soap to go through an extended gel phase.  I usually leave my soap in the oven overnight to be sure it goes through full gel.


Thank you for such good description..I am going to try it tonight. 
I am making a kg of olive, mango butter and beeswax soap. I use hp because I prefer the authenticity of the rustic look ..cpop sounds like the between of cp and hp . 
Very exciting!
Voula


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## voula (Feb 15, 2021)

Marsi said:


> Eurosoy800 is an alternative
> 
> Poth Hille states that Eurosoy800 is made from gmo-free 100% european soy
> Soy Wax | Poth Hille
> ...


I use Eurosoy 800 for candles and soap . The wax is licensed for skin care use . 
I have experiment up to 40 percent so far and I find that makes a long lasting soap itself ( no additional hard fats like palm ) it supports lather and all that stearic acid contribute s a dense  fluffy long lasting bubbles in companation  with other lather forming ingredients in soap. 
It's also neutral in terms of skin feel and that allows for the chosen star oil of a recipe to shine . 
( For me that have chosen to soap without animal fats, palm and coconut ) soy wax is the backbone of my soaps and I am delighted with the outcomes ,


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## Sudds (Feb 15, 2021)

Does anyone in the States use the GW415 Hydrogenated soy flakes or something like it? Sounds interesting. I have to admit everything sounds interesting to me about now!  Did get my mold made today, I don't think I have enough mica's to do my four colors though! I am so dumb, I forgot that I need to color my soaps, have a few clays, and a few liquid colors, and a few micas.  In the old days we didn't do all the fancy swirls and stuff you guys do now, anyhow I don't remember seeing much of it. Was there??


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## Zany_in_CO (Feb 15, 2021)

Sudds said:


> Does anyone in the States use the GW415 Hydrogenated soy flakes or something like it?


It helps if you read through the entire thread before posting a question.    See post #3:
*https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/soy-wax-use-in-soap.82437/#post-868829*


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## Marsi (Feb 16, 2021)

Sudds said:


> Does anyone in the States use the GW415 Hydrogenated soy flakes or something like it? Sounds interesting. I have to admit everything sounds interesting to me about now!  Did get my mold made today, I don't think I have enough mica's to do my four colors though! I am so dumb, I forgot that I need to color my soaps, have a few clays, and a few liquid colors, and a few micas.  In the old days we didn't do all the fancy swirls and stuff you guys do now, anyhow I don't remember seeing much of it. Was there??


GW415 is available for use in the States and around my region (Aussie/NZ)
Eurosoy800 is available in England/Europe

While I am not from the States, there are links to soapers experience using GW415 here


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## Mobjack Bay (Feb 16, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> It helps if you read through the entire thread before posting a question.    See post #3:
> *https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/soy-wax-use-in-soap.82437/#post-868829*


If anyone is planning to use GW 415, I encourage you to read this thread:






						GW 415 - Soy Wax
					

I posted most of this in another member’s thread, but it’s a bit of a rabbit hole, so I deleted it there and moved it here.  I have another thread on this topic, here, but haven’t been able to get much feedback on my calculations or assumptions. That thread is pretty dense, so here is a...




					www.soapmakingforum.com


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## Mommawolfe (Oct 15, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> While going through files, I found this helpful information about using soy wax in hard bars so I'm posting it here. I believe "Bunny" was an SMF member at one time and a few members may remember her fondly as I do. She was one of my mentors when I first started making soap. I will always be grateful to her for sharing her wisdom and sage advice.
> 
> *SOY WAX
> Bunny*_ *Posted:* Apr 16 2003, 09:17 AM
> ...


Thank you for this! I have been soaping for years, and decided it is time for me to exit my comfort zone and make shaving soap, as it is not widely available in the handcrafting market where I am in PA


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## Vicki C (Oct 15, 2021)

KiwiMoose said:


> No need for CPOPping here right now. It's 29 degrees today.


I can (sort of) think in grams and liters. Even mm and cm. But when I hear 29 degrees my mind is completely blank.


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## ResolvableOwl (Oct 15, 2021)

C'mon. This conversion is actually very simple:






On a side note, I learned that Category:Measurements in degrees Celsius by value - Wikimedia Commons is a thing in Wikipedia's image archive.


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## Zany_in_CO (Oct 15, 2021)

ResolvableOwl said:


> This conversion is actually very simple:


OR...
If you don't have a thermometer handy, or have trouble accurately reading between the lines (bad vision here ) you can google it, like this:

29°C = ? degrees F  ( Answer: 84.2°F)

Google does all kinds of similar conversions using that basic form. 
Try it. You'll like it. Especially if you're a lazy Daisy like me.


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## Vicki C (Oct 16, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> OR...
> If you don't have a thermometer handy, or have trouble accurately reading between the lines (bad vision here ) you can google it, like this:
> 
> 29°C = ? degrees F  ( Answer: 84.2°F)
> ...


Oh I know - I just mean I have no intuitive sense of the difference. I even used to be a chemistry teacher. I do know that -37 = -37, or as they say in New Hampshire, wicked cold.


ResolvableOwl said:


> C'mon. This conversion is actually very simple:
> View attachment 61726
> 
> 
> On a side note, I learned that Category:Measurements in degrees Celsius by value - Wikimedia Commons is a thing in Wikipedia's image archive.



this confuses me even more… but perhaps I could train my brain with my infrared thermometer by switching the units back and forth every time I check temperatures.


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## Zany_in_CO (Oct 16, 2021)

Vicki C said:


> Oh I know - I just mean I have no intuitive sense of the difference.


I hear ya! This might help with that...

Here's a little trick I learned while living in the British Crown Colony of Hong Kong, 1968-70. To approximate degrees Fahrenheit:
2 X degrees C and add 30 to that.
2 X 29°C = 58 >>>>> 58 + 30 = 88°F

So, whenever you see the temp in Celsius (or Centigrade), immediately use that number X 2 + 30 to train your brain to immediately convert to F.


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## earlene (Oct 16, 2021)

I use this in Google:  "_celsius to fahrenheit_" which then give me *this page*, wherein I can enter a number on either the left or the right side of the equation & the corresponding value appears.  I often leave the window open in my browser & go back to it as needed.

Incidentally, the same works for other types of conversions one may need.  For example "*ounces to grams*", and so on.


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## Mobjack Bay (Oct 16, 2021)

From my days of studying seasonal changes in the ecology of coastal bays:
0 C = winter
10-15 C = spring or fall
25-30 C = summer (and now also the lower limit of my room temperature soap making)
40 C = too hot for everything, including me when I’m out on a boat (but good for avoiding stearic spots in small soap batches with stubborn hard fats)


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## cmzaha (Oct 16, 2021)

I am uber lazy and love this little free conversion program. Convert for Windows


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## Vicki C (Oct 16, 2021)

Mobjack Bay said:


> From my days of studying seasonal changes in the ecology of coastal bays:
> 0 C = winter
> 10-15 C = spring or fall
> 25-30 C = summer (and now also the lower limit of my room temperature soap making)
> 40 C = too hot for everything, including me when I’m out on a boat (but good for avoiding stearic spots in small soap batches with stubborn hard fats)


This is great. This is what I want, not to know how to convert (but thanks all for your helpful references!) but to know how a temperature FEELS. But hey wait a gosh darn minute how should i feel when it’s 0-10, 15-25, or 30-40???


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## Johnez (Oct 16, 2021)

ResolvableOwl said:


> C'mon. This conversion is actually very simple:
> View attachment 61726
> 
> 
> On a side note, I learned that Category:Measurements in degrees Celsius by value - Wikimedia Commons is a thing in Wikipedia's image archive.


Clearly!

I love the metric system, especially now that I'm making soap, very easy to scale. Teaspoon to tablespoon to cup? What even is that?! Grams grams and more grams for me. But temps I feel the English got right. 100 is hot and zero is cold, and everything between is pretty easy to figure out. When I hear on the radio that the beds are burning and it's 45 degrees....I'm thinking must be a weird way to keep warm lol.


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## ResolvableOwl (Oct 16, 2021)

Since the topic (huh? have we had a topic?) is once again digressing towards lamenting the imperfections of arbitrary unit systems anyway, forgive me a few more unhelpful comments.


Johnez said:


> Teaspoon to tablespoon to cup? What even is that?!











						TSP vs TBSP
					






					xkcd.com
				





Johnez said:


> But temps I feel the English got right.


Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit (1686 – 1736), born in Gdańsk, then Poland-Lithuania, worked from 1717 on in Den Haag, Netherlands
Anders Celsius (1701 – 1744), born and worked in Uppsala, Sweden
Neither of which prioritises one over the other from an Anglo-Saxon, nor a continental European (let alone American) perspective.


Johnez said:


> 100 is hot and zero is cold


No objection.


Johnez said:


> 45 degrees....I'm thinking must be a weird way to keep warm lol.


45 degrees – nothing wrong with that, as long as I don't have to work, but am lying in a deckchair in the shadow of a palm tree, with an ice-cold cocktail in the hand


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## dibbles (Oct 16, 2021)

Vicki C said:


> This is great. This is what I want, not to know how to convert (but thanks all for your helpful references!) but to know how a temperature FEELS. But hey wait a gosh darn minute how should i feel when it’s 0-10, 15-25, or 30-40???


It depends on if you are pre, in it or post menopause


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