# Newbie alert!! Dr bronners diy for shampoo??? Help I'm so confused



## Newbie89 (Feb 23, 2018)

Hi, I'm new to soap making and I'm really confused whats the best way to make liquid soap for shampoo? I'm told the bars don't work as good! In just changing from store bought shampoo as I'm having alot of hair loss! Of seem the Dr bronners and wanted to make my own? Does anyone have a basic recipe? Am I right in saying I can then mix that in small amount with coconut milk ect to make different shampoos? I have bought lye solution pottasium and sodium as I gave the beldi soap a try the other day! I'm just scared of ruining my hair but at the minute its do dry and falling out  Iv read that lye is bad for the hair as the ph level is high but how else can I make soap like Dr bronners? Or when I mix little amounts with other oils does the ph level come down? I really want to learn any advice would be appreciated or links to books ECT! I find it hard to sit and read so any recipes you may have would be amazing! Thanks in advance


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## cmzaha (Feb 23, 2018)

If you are having a lot of hair loss I would recommend starting with a good dermatologist and see if they can diagnose a reason for your hair loss. Many times when hair loss is excessive many times it is due to health issues, medications, scalp disorders etc. You need to rule out any underlying medical issues. DO NOT USE SOAP,  the ph of soap is to high and harsh for hair, so if you want to keep the hair you have start trying out some quality shampoos or make your own shampoo. True shampoo is not lye based but made with mild surfactants. It makes no difference how many recipes you read Soap is not Shampoo. Be gentle when you brush your hair and it it easily tangles use a large hair pick that has smooth teeth. They are readily available at Beauty Supply Stores. Dr Bonners is Soap. Nioxin brand has some very good shampoos, but I am not sure if they are still only sold to licensed cosmetologists or not. Many salons carry Nioxin products, they are expensive but good products. I still have to use their 0.25% pyrithione zinc serum. Beldi soap is a soap used in the first stage of the Oriental Steam bath Hammam used for exfoliation.

You can find decent information here about making shampoo http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/search?q=shampoo


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## dixiedragon (Feb 23, 2018)

Having you been using Dr Bronner's on your hair and experienced no problems? I tried it once and didnt' like the way it left my hair feeling. While natural is very "in" right now - the fact is there's a reason that humans jumped pretty quickly from soap to shampoo. Detergents are much gentler and better for our hair.

You could try a base, such as:
http://www.chemistrystore.com/Ready-to-Use_Bases-Organic_Shampoo_Base.html

You can add some ingredients such as scent or a bit of extra oil.


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## Newbie89 (Feb 23, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> If you are having a lot of hair loss I would recommend starting with a good dermatologist and see if they can diagnose a reason for your hair loss. Many times when hair loss is excessive many times it is due to health issues, medications, scalp disorders etc. You need to rule out any underlying medical issues. DO NOT USE SOAP,  the ph of soap is to high and harsh for hair, so if you want to keep the hair you have start trying out some quality shampoos or make your own shampoo. True shampoo is not lye based but made with mild surfactants. It makes no difference how many recipes you read Soap is not Shampoo. Be gentle when you brush your hair and it it easily tangles use a large hair pick that has smooth teeth. They are readily available at Beauty Supply Stores. Dr Bonners is Soap. Nioxin brand has some very good shampoos, but I am not sure if they are still only sold to licensed cosmetologists or not. Many salons carry Nioxin products, they are expensive but good products. I still have to use their 0.25% pyrithione zinc serum. Beldi soap is a soap used in the first stage of the Oriental Steam bath Hammam used for exfoliation.
> 
> You can find decent information here about making shampoo http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/search?q=shampoo


Thank you I have been to my doctors but they don't seem to take any notice! That's why I was confused about the whole soap/shampoo thing I read that all shampoos are made with a small amount of castile soap! Iv never heard of nioxin so will look I to that! I had a look on the swiftcraft money but its so confusing! Do you have a recipe you use? Also what are you opinions on acv rinse as the same forums promoting st bronners shampoo also rave about acv?



dixiedragon said:


> Having you been using Dr Bronner's on your hair and experienced no problems? I tried it once and didnt' like the way it left my hair feeling. While natural is very "in" right now - the fact is there's a reason that humans jumped pretty quickly from soap to shampoo. Detergents are much gentler and better for our hair.
> 
> You could try a base, such as:
> http://www.chemistrystore.com/Ready-to-Use_Bases-Organic_Shampoo_Base.html
> ...


No I have never tried it I just decided to go natural as fed up with my hair and after researching I came across Dr bronners then thought about making my own! But it does have mixed reviews! When you say detergents what exactly do you mean? Thats exactly what I want an organic soap base then I can add what I want after to make different shampoos but I would like to learn how to make the soap base myself ideally as will cost alot less


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## dixiedragon (Feb 23, 2018)

I don't make shampoo - I use liquid shampoo from the store or Lush solid shampoo bars. Even soap should not make your hair fall out. It would make your hair very dry and brittle and might make the strands break, but not fall out. Have you tried baby shampoo?


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## Newbie89 (Feb 23, 2018)

dixiedragon said:


> I don't make shampoo - I use liquid shampoo from the store or Lush solid shampoo bars. Even soap should not make your hair fall out. It would make your hair very dry and brittle and might make the strands break, but not fall out. Have you tried baby shampoo?


I like the sound of the lush shampoo bars although would still prefer to make it myself if possible! Iv read again on johnsons baby shampoo and people say its full of chemicals you never know whags best to do


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## dixiedragon (Feb 23, 2018)

Soap is a salt that is created when you combine a fatty acid (lard, olive oil, coconut oil) with an alkaline (sodium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide). You will see works like "sodium tallowate" "sodium lardate" "sodium cocoate" .

You can read this Wiki article about shampoo:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shampoo#Composition

If you hair is falling out, maybe see a dermatologist? Is it falling out -leaving  you with thinner hair at the scalp or with bald spots - or just breaking off?

My non-medical advice is to use baby shampoo VERY sparingly. Condition with something totally natural, like a bit of olive oil or coconut oil. Try to stretch out your shampoos if you can. Take Vitamin E.


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## dixiedragon (Feb 23, 2018)

Making the shampoo base is going to have a pretty big initial outlay in cost. I'd suggest trying a shampoo bar to see if you like it first.

Here's another shampoo base:
https://www.brambleberry.com/stephe...XH_RozS3YMl4vI9cnHKfQtoQ8h42czexoChu8QAvD_BwE


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## Newbie89 (Feb 23, 2018)

dixiedragon said:


> Soap is a salt that is created when you combine a fatty acid (lard, olive oil, coconut oil) with an alkaline (sodium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide). You will see works like "sodium tallowate" "sodium lardate" "sodium cocoate" .
> 
> You can read this Wiki article about shampoo:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shampoo#Composition
> ...


What do you mean stretch shampoo? I don't have bald patches but can see where it is thinning! And feels so dry  maube can try baby shampoo again



dixiedragon said:


> Making the shampoo base is going to have a pretty big initial outlay in cost. I'd suggest trying a shampoo bar to see if you like it first.
> 
> Here's another shampoo base:
> https://www.brambleberry.com/stephe...XH_RozS3YMl4vI9cnHKfQtoQ8h42czexoChu8QAvD_BwE


Hope they deliver to the uk! So is all the i gredients in that safe to use? I just thought making it with things like natural oil would promote hair growth

Is there a way on the mis forum to search for specific tjings like shampoo? I cant find how to do it without scrolling through all the threads


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## dixiedragon (Feb 23, 2018)

I would mix a very small amount of shampoo with water, then put that in my hair. So less shampoo. And if you shampoo daily, try to spread it out to every other day, then every third day, then weekly, etc.


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## Newbie89 (Feb 23, 2018)

Ahhh ok yes I will do that I only shampo every few days as it is so dry anyway


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## dixiedragon (Feb 23, 2018)

Brambleberry is a US company.
Try this:
https://www.gracefruit.com/uploads/attachments/product/861/Melt_&_Pour,_Liquid_Crystal_-_MSDS.pdf

At the top right of the screen there is a search box. Or you can search through Google.


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## Obsidian (Feb 23, 2018)

If you want to try oils, you can apply a small amount directly to your scalp at night then wash it out in the mornings. Only use a little or it will be hard to remove. Oils aren't really going to help regrow though, especially if you have a medical issue. Also, for some people oil on the scalp will make hair fall worse.

Natural is not always better, many of the no poo or low poo methods like dr. bronners or baking soda are very, very damaging to hair.

Honestly, you need to stay away from lye soap hair care, it will only make dry hair worse. Store bought shampoos are made with detergents, they are a synthetic product that is man made. They are not dangerous or damaging. Some people who wash with really strong detergents might get dry hair, especially if they don't condition properly.

Up until now, what products have you been using and how often do you wash? Stretching is a term for going longer periods between washing. Some people stretch for just a few days, some a few weeks. Some, like me, can't stretch at all. I have to wash daily or at least every other day.

You should be able to find nioxin on amazon. I also think a doctor visit is a good idea. You need to insist on blood tests. You especially want to test your thyroid function, vitamin levels and blood iron levels.


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## Saponificarian (Feb 23, 2018)

Relax and take a breather. 

If you get a recipe from someone now and it doesn’t work for your hair, what are you going to do? Ask for another recipe and then if that doesn’t work, whatyagonnado?  

I have asked for and gotten a fantastic recipe from cmzaha here and the guys here are great about helping out so it’s not sharing the recipe that is the hard part. The hard part is reading to learn and that start with KNOWING why your hair is falling out. There are some hair forums that you can go on to read and google is great at giving you information. 

If it was my hair falling out, I would ask barring underlying health condition:

1. What was the last shampoo/conditioner I used before noticing my hair is falling out. 

2. Look at my diet.

3. I need to know what surfactants are good for dry or fragile hair. If you want to DIY your own products, you have to start reading and I am going to recommend SwiftCraftyMonkey to you again just like cmzaha did. There is a wealth of information on that site on how to make DIYs. 

4. While learning and experimenting on how to make your own shampoo and conditioner, I would look for a very good shampoo, conditioner and intense hair treatment and once I have learnt enough, try to reverse engineer the ones that I have found worked. 

5. I am sorry but there is no short cut to creating a product that works for YOU because a recipe that is great for me might be awful for you. You will have to find out by reading, experimenting and learning. Even a terrible batch is not wasted if you have learnt something.


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## cmzaha (Feb 23, 2018)

If your hair is extremely dry you might want to try mixing some shea with castor oil and a little oil such as Sweet almond oil. Rub this on your hands and lightly apply to your hair. This is a popular mix for a lot of our African Americans here, and is actually quite nice for dry hair. How long is your hair, the problem is if it is already actually damaged it simply cannot be fixed, since hair is dead. Do you see the bulb end when it falls out or is it split ends that break off. When hair is dry and splits it will continue up the hair shaft and eventually break off. I would certainly try the base that Dixiedragon posted above. It has some of the ingredients that I use in my shampoo bars. One other thing that will make a big difference to hair being dry is cutting backs on fats and not drinking enough water. People that cook with a lot of oils or work with oils, such as making soap, will tend to have oily hair. When I had my shop I had a couple customers that worked in school cafeterias, during school their hair would get very oily, when school was out for the summer their hair would be much drier. Hair that is falling out can also be genetics and age, sadly we cannot always stop the process without spending lots and lots of money


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## tilosi (Feb 24, 2018)

Hi, I had hair loss due to Hashimoto's, which is very hard to diagnose and most doctors don't even test for it. I'm not on any kind of medication for it but if done lots of research about, especially about the hair loss. I learned about, and started taking one tablespoon of unrefined organic coconut oil everyday, and my hair thickened up over a couple of months. I also see very little hair falling out, just the normal amount now. You can put it in your coffee or just take it straight from the container if it's slightly softened. I put in a drizzle of honey on top of mine when I take it from the spoon, and it tastes similar to a Mounds bar. I've been a hair stylist for over 20 years, and Nioxin shampoo and conditioner never worked for me or my clients. It dries your hair out  too much, therefore making it more brittle and causing it to have more breakage. The coconut oil really does work, and I hope you will try it. I also hope it helps you immensely!


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## Susie (Feb 24, 2018)

I am a nurse.  Hair breakage is caused by what you do to your hair.  Hair loss is caused by genetics, disease, medications, etc.  You need to go see a dermatologist. If the dermatologist says nothing about it, go find a different one.  

I had horrible hair breakage when using soap on my hair.  Had to have 16 inches cut off.  Use shampoo and conditioner purchased from a store.


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## Newbie89 (Feb 24, 2018)

Susie said:


> I am a nurse.  Hair breakage is caused by what you do to your hair.  Hair loss is caused by genetics, disease, medications, etc.  You need to go see a dermatologist. If the dermatologist says nothing about it, go find a different one.
> 
> I had horrible hair breakage when using soap on my hair.  Had to have 16 inches cut off.  Use shampoo and conditioner purchased from a store.


I have asked the doctors but atm they dont seem bothered I think because I have other things foing on its not there main concern  I already use store bought ones from alters the cavier moisture but I just want something natural maybe not soap then good job I didnt try it!


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## Obsidian (Feb 24, 2018)

Look into indian herbs and soapnuts, they are a safe natural way to clean hair and some of the herbs claim to help grow hair.


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## Saranac (Feb 24, 2018)

I'm not qualified to comment on health-issues, but what I will say is in my experience, the learning curve for making shampoo is long and expensive; if your hair and scalp are not healthy, it might be best to do enough research so that you can make a more informed choice in the shampoo aisle of your local market.  It's satisfying to make your own products, but in this case, a commercial one might be best.


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## lsg (Feb 24, 2018)

IMO, liquid soap will not make a good shampoo.  Try this for info on making shampoo:  http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ca/2010/05/shampoo-extended-instructions-for.html


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## cmzaha (Feb 24, 2018)

tilosi said:


> Hi, I had hair loss due to Hashimoto's, which is very hard to diagnose and most doctors don't even test for it. I'm not on any kind of medication for it but if done lots of research about, especially about the hair loss. I learned about, and started taking one tablespoon of unrefined organic coconut oil everyday, and my hair thickened up over a couple of months. I also see very little hair falling out, just the normal amount now. You can put it in your coffee or just take it straight from the container if it's slightly softened. I put in a drizzle of honey on top of mine when I take it from the spoon, and it tastes similar to a Mounds bar. I've been a hair stylist for over 20 years, and Nioxin shampoo and conditioner never worked for me or my clients. It dries your hair out  too much, therefore making it more brittle and causing it to have more breakage. The coconut oil really does work, and I hope you will try it. I also hope it helps you immensely!


 I was a hair stylist for over 30 yrs, my mom, 50+ years will a senior clientile, so we dealt with a lot of hair and scalp issues. I used Nioxin products on my troubled scalp and dry hair. It did not damage my hair and is the only product which helped my scalp. My sis with very dry hair uses one of the Nioxin sets with good results. You have to use the one for the problem, and like everything will not help everyone. I just threw it out there. Consuming Coconut is going to add fat that may or may not help. Vitamin A and Vitamin E help hair but again not everyone. It still helps to rule out a medical condition. I have seen direct help with Vitamin A, but vitamins are not the all time cure either, one's health and genetics play a big role. I was not prescribing just mentioning it may help.

As Obsidian mentioned try soapnuts but only try on a small area or test inside the elbow to rule out any allergies to the soapnuts. Soapnut nuts are really fun but I cannot use them, but I would not tell someone they cannot, test them just like shampoos. Sjogrens Syndrome can adversely affect hair big time and is extremely hard to control. My daughter uses one of the Nioxin systems while it does help it does not fix her hair.  Avocado Oil has a lot more good properties, but is only good if not allergic to avocados.


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## Zany_in_CO (Feb 25, 2018)

Newbie89 said:


> I'm having alot of hair loss! Of seem the Dr bronners and wanted to make my own? Does anyone have a basic recipe?


As far as I know, I'm probably the only person on this forum who makes an all natural shampoo. I have a recipe for Dr. Bronner's Baby Mild Castile Shampoo (Type). My 98-year old mother recently mentioned that she likes it because it makes her hair soft. Just the other day, my hubby mentioned that he likes my Peppermint Hogwash Hair & Body shampoo -- same comment -- it makes his hair soft and shiny. Then I also got this testimonial (posted on another forum herein) regarding my Flaxseed Shampoo from a soaping buddy earlier this month:


> *February 10, 2018, SB wrote:*
> _I really love your Flaxseed Oil Shampoo! I have 1/4 a bottle left and limit myself to use it once a week to make it stretch. :0 _
> 
> *February 12, 2018 Cee (Zany) wrote:*
> ...


I was experiencing hair loss too -- due to stress -- when I first started making my own all natural shampoo. That was at least 10 years ago. I still have the stress, but my hair is no longer falling out. My recommendation would be to try a natural shampoo like Dr. Bronner's to first see if that works for you. You're lucky... there are a lot more all natural shampoos on the market these days due to the trend away from commercial SynDets (Synthetic/Detergent) shampoo. If you find one you like, I might be able to help you duplicate it.

Oh yeah, I just remembered. I once had a soaper ask me to make her a shampoo with nothing but almond oil. I was skeptical, but it turned out great. Nice lather.  Rinsed clean. Left my hair soft, shiny and feeling conditioned.


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## Newbie89 (Feb 25, 2018)

Zany_in_CO said:


> As far as I know, I'm probably the only person on this forum who makes an all natural shampoo. I have a recipe for Dr. Bronner's Baby Mild Castile Shampoo (Type). My 98-year old mother recently mentioned that she likes it because it makes her hair soft. Just the other day, my hubby mentioned that he likes my Peppermint Hogwash Hair & Body shampoo -- same comment -- it makes his hair soft and shiny. Then I also got this testimonial (posted on another forum herein) regarding my Flaxseed Shampoo from a soaping buddy earlier this month:
> 
> I was experiencing hair loss too -- due to stress -- when I first started making my own all natural shampoo. That was at least 10 years ago. I still have the stress, but my hair is no longer falling out. My recommendation would be to try a natural shampoo like Dr. Bronner's to first see if that works for you. You're lucky... there are a lot more all natural shampoos on the market these days due to the trend away from commercial SynDets (Synthetic/Detergent) shampoo. If you find one you like, I might be able to help you duplicate it.
> 
> Oh yeah, I just remembered. I once had a soaper ask me to make her a shampoo with nothing but almond oil. I was skeptical, but it turned out great. Nice lather.  Rinsed clean. Left my hair soft, shiny and feeling conditioned.


That sounds great! Iv never actually tried the Dr bronners or any ither natural shampoo yet! Apsrt from a mix of aloe and coconut I made the other day which was a disaster! I would love the recipe for the flax and mild Dr bronners! I'm just a bit confused now as so many people have said the koh will ruin the hair! I dont like the idea of the syndet bars as they have so many chemicals in them! Hmmmm its hard to know what to do a lot of people say the bronners damaged the hair but not only after using it for a while!


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## artemis (Feb 25, 2018)

Just a little article I found interesting. It was even updated just this year. It's on the question of "what is a chemical." Chemicals are not inherently bad. We are even made up of chemicals ourselves:. https://www.thoughtco.com/is-everything-a-chemical-604194


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## Cellador (Feb 25, 2018)

I used to make a paste for my hair, using soapnut, amla, and shikakai powders. While I liked it, it was really time consuming, and I just couldn't keep-up with it. I felt like my hair was still in good condition after using the process for 6 months or so. I honestly can't speak for the long-term results, but if you're interested, look into cleansing powders.


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## Newbie89 (Feb 25, 2018)

They sell them


Cellador said:


> I used to make a paste for my hair, using soapnut, amla, and shikakai powders. While I liked it, it was really time consuming, and I just couldn't keep-up with it. I felt like my hair was still in good condition after using the process for 6 months or so. I honestly can't speak for the long-term results, but if you're interested, look into cleansing powders.


 In my local Indian shop but I dont understand how to use them I supoose tmi all the powders together then do what with them? Do you mix them with an oil to apply to hair?


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## Cellador (Feb 25, 2018)

Newbie89 said:


> They sell them
> 
> In my local Indian shop but I dont understand how to use them I supoose tmi all the powders together then do what with them? Do you mix them with an oil to apply to hair?


I would take a couple of scoops of each powder and mix them with a small amount of liquid (water, yogurt, honey, hydrosol,etc). Only enough liquid that the mixture became a paste. I then rubbed into the roots of my hair, let it sit for a few minutes, and then rinsed, rinsed, rinsed (rinse a lot, there's a lot of powder residue in your hair). Then, repeat.
EDITED TO ADD: I have oily hair, so I didn't need to condition or add oils after the fact. My natural oils provided enough, I guess. If my ends got brittle, I would sometimes rub a lightweight oil into the dry areas after washing.


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