# Mislabeled products from a new vendor



## lizard1232 (Apr 25, 2015)

Good afternoon, everyone. I just wanted to poll you guys and see how, or even if, you would approach a new vendor at your market that is not correctly labeling products. I understand with soap, there is no requirement, however with her bath salts and other goodies, she had only written the ingredients down on an index card and placed it under the product. There was one card period, not one card per product. My serious issue, though, is that she is selling a "sore muscle rub" which the FDA has established as a drug, but she is not following proper labeling procedures. I also noticed a few pamphlets regarding a certain brand of EOs, which leads me to believe she's working the MLM angle. And then, of course, she had her MP labeled as glycerine soap. 
     My question is would you approach her to find out if she knows she's all jacked up and just doesn't care or would you let her do her thing? My problem is I'm not particularly known for my tact. Even if she's just naively labeling, I'm not very good at calling people out on their mistakes without seeming aggressive...
     I'm actually incredibly offended by her booth as I have spent over 2 years researching my products and the policies and regulations, and I am still leery of selling just yet, but this woman just seems like she woke up one day and said I'm just going to do this without any knowledge whatsoever. I know it's a small detail, but her booth didn't even have signage for branding, which leads me to believe she probably doesn't even have a business license.


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## Cactuslily (Apr 25, 2015)

Perhaps she doesn't have money for signage. I understand your frustration, but personally I don't like to judge what others are doing, or why they are doing it. If you are really concerned with the safety of her products, then maybe you can have a non-threatening conversation with her. She may not know she's doing anything wrong, so this can be a teachable moment. Ask questions, and see how she replies?


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## shunt2011 (Apr 25, 2015)

I've seen several in markets/shows I've done.  I just ignore them knowing my products are done correctly and will stand for themselves.


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## Lion Of Judah (Apr 25, 2015)

i would say talk with her to see if she is fully aware of the regulations. the scrub that has no ingredients listed on the container i would ask if " i gift this to someone how would they know if any ingredient contained might be an allergen to them if its not listed "? but i would do it in kindness , and if i see a resistance over elevating her standards then i would just walk away , sooner or later it will catch up with her.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Apr 26, 2015)

I'd call up the FDA, but then I'm like that :evil:

But seriously, I would ask if she knows that she isn't compliant, say that you don't want her to get in to trouble or for people to have issues with anything that she sells. If she throws it back in your face, so be it, at least you tried


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## hmlove1218 (Apr 26, 2015)

I'd seriously thin about doing that, but I don't think I actually would.  That would only give them one more reason to stick their nose into soapmaking..

I may try to inform her in the kindest, least snobby way I could. Maybe even guilt trip her with something about how people who label incorrectly are making the government want to have stricter regulations on all soap and cosmetic makers.


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## galaxyMLP (Apr 26, 2015)

Please don't hate me all: 

1) I'm in Florida
2) when I went to my first show I had everything labeled properly
3) but, I didn't know I needed a business lisence (I know, silly me) I just though that if I sold less than 1000 I wouldn't need it. The people in the booth next to me kindly informed me that I needed one no matter what so I could collect sales tax.
4) at the time, I sold some body butter and scrubs, as many of you know, Florida has some major cosmetic rules/regulations and I didn't know I couldn't make them from home (among other prohibitive things). It took someone telling me (this was after the show when I was talking to another soap maker) about this law to find out.

In all of these cases when I didn't know something, each of the people telling me what I was doing wrong genuinely did not want me to get in trouble with the law. I think it would be great if you could come off in that way. 

I registered my business that night and I had to pull all of my butters/ anything that was a cosmetic and totally re-label everything. I also cut back on selling drastically b/c I realized I needed to do more research. 

Although I was discouraged at first I think it gave me a good feeling to know that my products now comply with the law.

ETA: this is my advice to you: if they are only on their fist few shows, I would kindly inform them on the laws. Otherwise, if they are a show "veteran" they should know better at that point. I would provide them some website links for what resources you use if they are a newbie. I would also recommend doing it after the show while you are cleaning up if you can. That way it doesn't look like youre trying to take away their business.


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## not_ally (Apr 26, 2015)

Galaxy, you sound like a very wise person - being willing to take advice from people who have more experience is an excellent skill.  

Honestly, I don't know if I would say anything.  My experience in these situations - soapy or not - is that people are defensive and even less likely to listen after you have said something, no matter how gently, they just think you are being a know-it-all.  This includes my mentee in one of the poorest, most challenged school districts in the country.  When working on essays for college apps she was (not overtly, but feeling it, I think) defensive about my changes/suggestions because she has always done so well in that environment, although she is now applying to very competitive colleges where the prep school kids will eat her for lunch.  

I know it doesn't seem like it here (you guys are not judgy, so I don't bother too much), but IRL I am a really good writer, extremely sensitive to context, and a good editor because I have had to be to survive in a very tough working environment which was all about the writing.  But her world is really small, it makes her feel bad to be corrected, and I think she might have to figure it out by herself.

ETA:  this is probably full of edit-able things, new computer and all the keys are in the wrong place, darn it!  

Anyway, my experience leads me to believe that your fellow soap maker might be unwilling to take your advice, and the results will end up taking her out of the market all by themselves.


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## Lindy (May 1, 2015)

Cjchrissy said:


> Could you not approach the people that oversee the market and discuss their liability in the event something happens. At our local market , in bc, Canada, no one cares, crazy if you ask me


 
Believe it or not Health Canada is cracking down. I know of 2 people who have been shut down for not labeling properly, 1 of them had a storefront.


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## cmzaha (May 1, 2015)

I would say nothing, it most likely will fall on deaf ears and just make her mad. I am doing a market this weekend that I know a lotion seller will be there with all her "magic healing lotion". Her lotions heal dry skin, eczema, yada yada. I did ask her how her lotion was going to heal someone's eczema if they happen to be allergic to it. Oops, she no longer speaks to me and turns around when I go by. I never told her I am a seller and as far as I know she has never been to my booth. It is a market with 4 different areas and I happen to be inside not outside where she is located. 
So far, in my experience FDA will do nothing to someone selling in a Farmer's Market. We had a lady selling butters and scrubs in open plastic shoe boxes. She would scoop it out put it in an unlabeled jar. She had q-tips stuck in the butters for testing and would stick them right back in the butter. Just to see what she would do I asked her for a clean q-tip to try the butter, I would not have really put it on, and was told they are clean. When I mentioned she had just used it on someone else and stuck it back in the butter she was not happy...2 people said yuck and left the booth. oops guess my point was made to at least a couple of people. I called FDA and was informed it was it not involving interstate trade they would do nothing. Selling online and shipping did not seem to matter, they told me to call the local health department, did that and was simply told "buyer beware". So nothing really gets done about Farmer Markets at least here in So Cal.


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## girlishcharm2004 (May 1, 2015)

Carolyn, this reminds me of this guy at my Farmer's Market who sells "magic bracelets" that cures "bad spirits" ... ... ... ... ...


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## maya (May 1, 2015)

Nie mój cyrk, nie moje małpy. Not my circus, not my monkey.


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## penelopejane (Feb 17, 2016)

galaxyMLP said:


> ETA: this is my advice to you: if they are only on their fist few shows, I would kindly inform them on the laws. Otherwise, if they are a show "veteran" they should know better at that point. I would provide them some website links for what resources you use if they are a newbie. I would also recommend doing it after the show while you are cleaning up if you can. That way it doesn't look like youre trying to take away their business.



This is what I would do (and what I would like someone else to do for me) if I were in that situation. 

How is someone supposed to know these things unless they are told?


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## Barbsbreakingbath (May 9, 2016)

I'm late to the party, but if it were me I might try and sit down with her at a quiet time and say "as a friendly person, I'm telling you there's a lot more involved to this". I know that I started selling products, and didn't know so many things. I thought it was just a matter of carefully following a recipe from BB or WSP and hitting the craft fair circuit, but even I labelled properly.mAlthough I'm not making excuses, I think a number of wholesalers gloss over what all is involved in selling BB items to the public.
For example of these suppliers has a recipe for hemp lotion that doesn't even mention the problems associated with hemp lotion and rancidity. Instead of which you get glowing reviews "of how the product flew off of the shelves at my craft fair". And after every video demonstration, a chirpy voice says "you can even sell this!"
The fact that so much of this stuff is sold with no adverse effect is a testament to the power of human skin as a disease fighting organ.
I put out clean q-tips, little trash bins, and hand wipes, and I've even tried little wood ice cream scoops, and I still have problems with people sh looping a big old finger in the body butter or sugar scrub and digging out a sample. It's an ongoing battle. I use pumps for everything I can now.


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## cmzaha (May 9, 2016)

penelopejane said:


> This is what I would do (and what I would like someone else to do for me) if I were in that situation.
> 
> How is someone supposed to know these things unless they are told?


No matter what business you are thinking of going into one needs to research the laws and regs for that business. Simple fact, do your research before selling anything. BTW this is a very old thread


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## makemineirish (Jul 10, 2016)

I don't sell, but I have a strong personality myself and am conscientious about being misconstrued.  Here's my two cents.

I feel that is important to address the inappropriate labeling in the interest of public safety.  Failing to do so puts others at risk.  It's like failing to confiscate the keys or report an inebriated driver.  It's possible that they will make it home safely (and may have done so before).  It is also possible that they won't.  I understand that I am not legally liable for someone else's actions, but would feel morally culpable.

That being said, there are smarter ways to initiate the conversation.  I have a tendency to be a bit... abrasive myself.  This just means that I have to be much more strategic when engaging in an emotionally charged subject to compensate for my own social clumsiness.

No one appreciates being lectured or chastised (even when it's deserved).  Unfortunately, even the most well intentioned advice can be heard as judgemental depending on the sensitivities of the person its directed at.

I would start the conversation by asking for the vendor's advice.  Tell her that you have been planning your business for two years because it has been so difficult to wrap your head around all the legalities and labeling requirements of doing so.  Heck, you made sure that you carried insurance before even giving your products to friends or family because of the personal liability involved.  Nevermind the fact that many people with latex allergies may not even realize that it could be triggered by shea butter, or that pink pepper might affect those with nut allergies!  Frankly, the classification of some home remedies as drugs by the FDA is all a bit terrifying.  Just commiserate with them as a "girlfriend" looking for some guidance in how they navigated territory that you have yet to treverse.

Using this tactic is a bit disingenuous, but allows you to illuminate their failings without actually manning the spotlight.  The hope is that you can stimulate them to start asking questions that they may not have thought to address before.  It's a non-confrontational means of broaching the issue.  It also allows for the possibility that the vendor is simply ignorant, rather than duplicitous.

If they arrive to the next market without having implemented any changes, naivete is no longer a plausible consideration.  I would then report them through every avenue available: from market management to the FDA.


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## artemis (Jul 10, 2016)

cmzaha said:


> She had q-tips stuck in the butters for testing and would stick them right back in the butter.



We were just at an annual fair this weekend. One soap and lotion maker had the same thing: little tester jars with one q-tip in each. My mini-soaper said, "oooh! Handmade lotion!" I just whispered "don't use the testers..." and we moved on. Based on their set-up, they looked like seasoned fair vendors.


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## Dahila (Jul 10, 2016)

maya said:


> Nie mój cyrk, nie moje małpy. Not my circus, not my monkey.


Czesc Maja)


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## maya (Jul 11, 2016)

Dahila said:


> Czesc Maja)



Czesc Dahlia! Dobre z toba rozmawiac.


Save​


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