# Substitute for Tallow?



## craftykelly (Sep 11, 2008)

I just bought a great little second hand soap making book and the recipes in there use Tallow.  I don't want to use animal fats at all so was hoping that someone can tell me what is a good substitute?  If I was to guess I would say Palm oil?

TIA


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## soap_lady (Sep 11, 2008)

Yes Palm Oil would be correct.  

But on the flip side of the coin, tallow or even lard really are awesome in soap and I personally think they are misunderstood or people are quick to jump on the bandwagon to say no animal oils before doing the research on them.   Plus if your a beginner soap maker, most don't have access to palm oil without ordering it.   When you can buy most of your oils in the grocery store and include lard alone or lard and crisco combination as your base oils to help provide hardness for your soap.


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## MikeInPdx (Sep 11, 2008)

Yeah....Palm is the correct substitute. I just reformulated my recipes with palm....I participate in swaps, and I'm always having to remove lard or tallow for a variety of reasons.


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## mysoapopera (Sep 11, 2008)

I have tried many different oils and combs. I personally like mine with lard. my objective when I first started, was to remove lard from all my recipes and sub out with something else, after it was all said and done..I like lard in my soap.


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## craftykelly (Sep 12, 2008)

Thanks everyone.  I can get palm oil at my local grocery shop.  Almost have everything ready to start now.


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## 49.bussey (Feb 9, 2014)

*What other oils can replace tallow?*

Other than palm oil, what other options are there to replace tallow, does anyone know?


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## Lindy (Feb 9, 2014)

Lard.... palm is the only direct cross-over...


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## 49.bussey (Feb 10, 2014)

*Thanks*

Thank you, that's a beautiful soap creation you have on your profile picture, by-the-way, I am a newbie but those complex beautiful colors are what I am striving for.


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## Dahila (Feb 10, 2014)

Do you think I could use lard bought in store?  They sell in Canada a pound of Pure lard with some citric acid in it and Bht or something like that?  I would like to try soap with lard, btw what percentage should I keep.  I hope original poster does not mind my hacking the thread


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## dixiedragon (Feb 10, 2014)

Dahila, I use store bought lard with no problem. The brand I get is Armor and it comes in a green and white box or bucket.
Here are the ingredients:
Lard And Hydrogenated Lard, BHA, Propyl Gallate And Citric Acid Added To Protect Flavor.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 10, 2014)

Just also be aware of how some people feel about the way that palm oil is produced.  If customers are squeemish about animal fats, they might not be too keen on using something that contains palm oil with out some back ground on where it's from and how it was produced.


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## Saponista (Feb 10, 2014)

You can use cocoa butter to harden soap but it ends up not feeling as nice, I am toying with a few things at the moment.


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## cmzaha (Feb 10, 2014)

Coco butter is also going to make an expensive bar of soap if using enough to make it harder. Fully hydrogenated soy (soy wax) will add hardness to your soap, might be able to replace palm or tallow with it. Just make sure the soy wax is 100% soy


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## Dahila (Feb 17, 2014)

dixiedragon said:


> Dahila, I use store bought lard with no problem. The brand I get is Armor and it comes in a green and white box or bucket.
> Here are the ingredients:
> Lard And Hydrogenated Lard, BHA, Propyl Gallate And Citric Acid Added To Protect Flavor.



thank you so much ))


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## seven (Feb 17, 2014)

cmzaha said:


> Coco butter is also going to make an expensive bar of soap if using enough to make it harder. Fully hydrogenated soy (soy wax) will add hardness to your soap, might be able to replace palm or tallow with it. Just make sure the soy wax is 100% soy



is it going to inhibit lather like beeswax does?


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## Candybee (Feb 17, 2014)

There just is no feeling like lard in your soap. I've heard it referred to by other soapers as the poor man's shea butter. Many have tried to reproduce the feel in an all veggie soap. The best I have found is splitting palm oil and shea butter at 2:1 and use as a sub for lard. So if your recipe calls for 30% lard sub it out for 20% palm oil with 10% shea butter. Its very close to the feel of lard. 

But when you get a chance, try some soap with lard in it. You will be glad you did. Its very good for the skin and my customers swear it clears up their acne. My sensitive skin customers tell me its the only soap they can use that doesn't irritate or make their skin itch.


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## jblaney (Feb 17, 2014)

Candybee,

Thanks for the tip!   I too love lard in my soap, but I will try your idea tonight and see if I like it.


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## Candybee (Feb 17, 2014)

Dahila said:


> Do you think I could use lard bought in store? They sell in Canada a pound of Pure lard with some citric acid in it and Bht or something like that? I would like to try soap with lard, btw what percentage should I keep. I hope original poster does not mind my hacking the thread


 
I use Manteca lard I buy from Walmart. The citric acid is used as a preservative which doesn't bother me in the least as I want my beloved lard to last as long as possible! You should have no problems with your store bought lard.

You can use it in varying amounts in your recipe. I typically use it at 25-30% of my oils. Just remember that lard slows trace so the more you use the slower your trace. I find it starts to effect my trace beginning at 30%. It will also depend on your other oils too. I use olive oil with lard. A good recipe trinity for lard is olive oil, lard, and coconut oil. If you throw in a little castor oil it rocks!


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## Lindy (Feb 18, 2014)

CorazonMamaBallena said:


> Thank you, that's a beautiful soap creation you have on your profile picture, by-the-way, I am a newbie but those complex beautiful colors are what I am striving for.


 
 Thank you...


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## ca_soap (Feb 18, 2014)

I'm a few days behind on threads but I can't pass this one without saying I love lard also!  It's a greasy little four letter word but oh how it does wonders in soaps!


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## 49.bussey (Feb 26, 2014)

*Palm Oil & Lard*

I agree with soap lady on Lard. To make a less expensive soap lard in these parts of the world is necessary. On the other hand, palm oil, is hard to obtain in Argentina, plus I believe in sustainable oils and not just Vegetarian or Organic for the sake of it...I stumbled upon an article online that damages the Palm Oil reputation by stating that it is wrecking havoc on the Orangutan habitat. Something to think about. This website suggests not to boycott Palm but rather buy Palm with consciousness: http://www.greenpalm.org/en/faqs/consumers.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 26, 2014)

It is an issue with palm, to be fair.  I love lard soaps, too.

There is a subset of the market that I think I will just never understand nor try to woo - those that don't want animal fats OR palm, with out really knowing why other than what they read on a link floating on facebook.  All things can be produced in an unethical way, but that doesn't mean that all palm oil is killing the great apes.

If I was selling a soap and the customer saw it had palm and asked for a palm-free soap, the only alternatives would be Castile, Salt Bar or Lard.


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## FlybyStardancer (Feb 26, 2014)

What if you're dealing with a more educated vegetarian? There are those who have done their research and still feel that they don't want to use palm that isn't sustainably harvested, or don't want to spend their time vetting every potential seller. When they're vegetarians who can't use animal oils at all... 

That's a bit of the bind I'm in. Palm oil that I can feel comfortable using is a bit beyond what I can get right now, and if I want to be able to give my soaps away to all of my friends they have to be animal oil-free. (I have nothing against lard in soaps--I have some lard in the fridge to play with. It just cuts my already-small pool of testers even smaller.)


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## soapballs (Feb 26, 2014)

Is lard and tallow used interchangeable?  I mean is one better than the other? I decided to make myself animal oil based soaps and my first go to was lard but have flipped to tallow.  

Can someone tell me the difference between lard and tallow besides the animal fat is came from? If you had a 100% lard and 100% tallow bar could you tell which was which?

Sorry I ask so many questions and post jack but I got so many questions and money is tight so I want to make sure when I order my supplies I get all I need and nothing extra.

Thank you!
Misty


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## FlybyStardancer (Feb 26, 2014)

According to this page, tallow is higher in stearic acid and has a low level of myristic acid, which lard does not have. That would theoretically make it slightly harder and a bit more cleansing than lard soap. I can't speak from experience, though.


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## Kansas Farm Girl (Feb 26, 2014)

I use both lard and tallow in my soaps, depending on quantities I have on hand. While they are very similar to me, I prefer the tallow soap because to me the feel is smoother/silkier, not sure if that is the best way to describe it, but I can't really find the right words to describe the feel of the soap. My friends who have tried various batches of my soap, without knowing the oils I used, have preferred the tallow/lard based soaps. I use either between 40-60% of my oils and normally SF about 7%.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 27, 2014)

FlybyStardancer said:


> What if you're dealing with a more educated vegetarian? There are those who have done their research and still feel that they don't want to use palm that isn't sustainably harvested, or don't want to spend their time vetting every potential seller. When they're vegetarians who can't use animal oils at all.................



I'd still have very little to offer them - soaps with palm or animal fats, outside of that it's Castile or Salt bars, which doesn't give them much choice.

But it IS their choice - and I respect that.  But I won't change my recipes to suit them*.




* - unless everyone wants to use soaps with no animal fats or palm, in which case I'll change faster than Clark Kent in a phone booth.........


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## FlybyStardancer (Feb 27, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> But it IS their choice - and I respect that.  But I won't change my recipes to suit them*.



It just seemed like you were implying that there could be no thought-out reason for rejecting both palm and animal fats.   Palm is unlikely to be one of my staples, and if I want to be able to widely distribute any soaps I make*, then they can't have animal fats either. It's not a reactionary thing.

*As of right now that means gifting to friends and family. I have a vague notion of _maybe_ selling someday, but that has all of the strength as my non-existent indie dyed yarn store.


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## Saponista (Feb 28, 2014)

A lady I have bought cold process soaps off in the uk used to use palm oil, then suddenly overnight changed all her recipes to not include it and she has never used animal fats. I don't think she would have made that decision on a whim without pressure from customers as it would have meant a lot of work and expense for her.


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## Dahila (Mar 3, 2014)

Candybee said:


> I use Manteca lard I buy from Walmart. The citric acid is used as a preservative which doesn't bother me in the least as I want my beloved lard to last as long as possible! You should have no problems with your store bought lard.
> 
> You can use it in varying amounts in your recipe. I typically use it at 25-30% of my oils. Just remember that lard slows trace so the more you use the slower your trace. I find it starts to effect my trace beginning at 30%. It will also depend on your other oils too. I use olive oil with lard. A good recipe trinity for lard is olive oil, lard, and coconut oil. If you throw in a little castor oil it rocks!


You rock, thank you so much,  I got my question answered in way I wanted.  This forum is a treasured place.. 
Regular nice people who never ignore newbies.  Thank you!!!


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## judymoody (Mar 3, 2014)

I played around in soap calc and found that you could mimic the fatty acid profile of lard or palm by mixing avocado oil and cocoa butter in varying proportions.  Ups the cost considerably but if that's what your conscience dictates, it's a possibility. Personally, I use sustainable palm oil from Central or South America.


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