# How to get the best online sales?



## AshleyR (May 18, 2009)

When first starting out (my grand opening is June 30th!!) I'm planning to get a "feel" for what scents sell, etc. by selling through my website. I'm going into some craft fairs in late summer and will be busy with holiday ones in the fall, but as for starting out, I'm hoping to get mostly online sales (I want to start out slow!)

I have an etsy store and will probably list some things there (I've gotten some great tips here on how to be successful on etsy!!) but I'm hoping to draw more traffic to my actual website. I've created a blog for my business, am on Twitter (under my business name), have been making videos on YouTube about my business, am making a Facebook "fan page", and am a member of a lot of different forums where I'm allowed to advertise my business. I think all of these things will help me out greatly with online sales, but was wondering if anyone else has any tips for me?

Thanks!!


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## Guest (May 21, 2009)

Hey Ashley -- please note that having a Facebook, YouTube vids, blog, etc. won't open the floodgates of sales as some online sources lead people to believe.  At least not at first.  Before they will have any real effect on your business, you'll need to get lots of visitors seeing them, which takes a lot of time and effort.

Growing a customer base online requires creative marketing.  Free ads on forums might get you an occasional sale, but I wouldn't anticipate it to be a significant source of customers.

You'll probably grow a stronger customer base right away doing craft fairs and shows, rather than starting online.  This will also give you a better idea as to which of your soaps sell best, because people are smelling them in person rather than guessing at how they might smell from a description on your site.

If you still feel that you want to start out selling online, keep this in mind:

One way or another, you're going to need to bring a lot of visitors to your site, and don't expect more than a 1-3% sales rate.  This is just the nature of the web.  In order for that small percentage to be meaningful, you need to get a lot of targeted visitors coming in on a daily basis.

As I mentioned earlier, in lieu of getting customers from craft fairs, you'll need to invest in some creative marketing.  Ads in relevant magazines and publications, business cards/flyers in relevant businesses (spas, boutiques, etc), host your own shows, things of that nature.

Search engine optimization for targeted keywords will help you gain customers through organic searches.  Pay-per-click services will get you more instant results, but of course you have to find out if the cost is even worth the results, which it probably won't be for low-ticket items like soap.

I think there is a general consensus that selling on the web is easier than in other venues, but it isn't.  There's no magic pill or secret weapon, it takes a lot of time, hard work and trial & error.  And often a realistic marketing budget as well.  

Hope this is useful to you.


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## heartsong (May 21, 2009)

*x*

imho, i would suggest making tons of samples with your etsy address on it and start handing them out to everyone who crosses your path.

leave one for your waitress, your mail lady, your hairdresser, at your dental/dr's office, strangers standing in line with you-etc.   

nothing can sell your product as well as a free sample.


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## Tabitha (May 21, 2009)

> I think there is a general consensus that selling on the web is easier than in other venues, but it isn't.



Daniel, I am not trying to be ugly, but you are  seriously misleading people when you make statements like this and pass them off as fact. You have never sold a bar of soap, online, in a shop, at a fair or a farmer's market. You write so well that it looks like you are speaking from experience, but it is all assumption. It is not a fact, you have no personal experience from which you are drawing your conclusions.


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## Guest (May 21, 2009)

Tabitha said:
			
		

> > I think there is a general consensus that selling on the web is easier than in other venues, but it isn't.
> 
> 
> 
> Daniel, I am not trying to be ugly, but you are  seriously misleading people when you make statements like this and pass them off as fact. You have never sold a bar of soap, online, in a shop, at a fair or a farmer's market. You write so well that it looks like you are speaking from experience, but it is all assumption. It is not a fact, you have no personal experience from which you are drawing your conclusions.



Tabitha, do you honestly believe that soap is some unique product in which the traditional rules of sales and marketing somehow don't apply?  Especially in the online world?

I haven't sold soap online, but I do have many years of experience with online and offline sales and marketing.  I am not misleading anyone -- whether you're selling soap, widgets or non-tangibles on the web, the same basic rules apply.  *The meat of what I'm saying here is that sales don't come rushing in from free-for-all ads and brand new social networking sites and blogs.*  Selling ANYTHING online requires a great deal of creativity and effort.  "Build it and they will come" does NOT apply to the world of online sales.  Ashley said in her post that she believes these sites and videos will "greatly help her sales", and I was giving her a more realistic perspective on them, as well as giving her a better idea of how the world of internet sales & marketing works, along with tried-and-true methods of increasing visitors to her site.  This is not misleading in the least.

I also wanted to post this info because I've read several posts from confused Etsy store owners who couldn't understand why the sales didn't start rushing in after they created their Etsy website.  The simple truth is, many people know little to nothing about how the world of online sales & marketing works.  Many really do believe that building a website is all that is required to start the influx of customers and sales.

Plus, I've read article after article about how posting on a few forums, creating some YouTube vids and getting on social networking sites is somehow a fast track to internet sales.  These claims are GROSSLY exaggerated and I'd like people on this forum to know this, and go into them with realistic expectations.

I really wish you would have noticed that I'm speaking from experience in the realm of internet sales & marketing, and not get stuck on the fact that soap is the item being sold in this particular instance.  I don't have to sell 1,000 bars of soap online to know how online sales and marketing works.  The advice I gave to Ashley is based on my years of experience and success.  I also gave her a few ideas that I would consider using myself if I were in her shoes, but that's clearly all they were -- ideas.  

*FACT:* Dollar for dollar, Farmer's Markets and craft fairs are easier venues to sell a product (compared to marketing and selling online) if you are just starting out.  Why? Because you have built in supply of potential customers coming to see your product -- which leads to sales (hopefully :wink: ).  These markets and fairs generally have a high profit potential due to low admission fees.  On the contrary, if you build a website and have no idea how to market it, or your marketing efforts aren't fruitful, you don't get sales. Marketing your website is much more expensive upfront and requires more effort and funds to work effectively.  This is a simple and obvious fact.  By the way, I do in fact have experience selling products at Farmers Markets.  Does the product in question really matter that much?  Again, the rules are the same.  

The advice I've offered can be taken with a grain of salt, but I can tell you right now that everything I've "passed off as fact" is indeed factual and spoken from a great deal of experience.


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## The Queen (May 21, 2009)

OK, I'll bite, what did you sell Daniel?


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## Guest (May 21, 2009)

The Queen said:
			
		

> OK, I'll bite, what did you sell Daniel?



Handmade sterling silver and turquoise jewelry and heirlooms, holistic health products including food, supplements and body care products, and as far as online sales go I've had several successful online businesses and done consulting/marketing/creative for many small and medium sized business owners who wanted to begin selling online. 

I've gotten #1 rankings in Google on a good number of my clients' websites  through search engine optimization, copywriting and website design/redesign.  In some cases, these top rankings brought in nearly 100% of their business.

Right now, I'm in the midst of creating a marketing campaign for the company I work for (a holistic healing arts/wellness center).  I love doing this kind of work.


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## heartsong (May 21, 2009)

*x*

just another idea-some state and county fairs have judging events-like quilts,  weaving, jams and preserves, and other "home arts" catagories.

you might check if there's one for soapmaking.  it would seem like you'd get a whole lot of exposure just to compete.

most fairs charge a modest sum for each entry.  my neighbor lady when i lived in washington state made beautiful minature hand made quilts for wall hangings.  she owned a quilting supply and fabric shop and had lessons on the weekends. 

i believe she payed about $10 per entry at the benton/franklin county fair. i believe the "head count" for the week was in excess of 50,000 each year.

it would be another selling point, maybe, to be able to say your soap won a blue ribbon, too.


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## Deda (May 21, 2009)

Ashley, you're going to do great.  Blogging and etsy are excellent ways to drive traffic to your site.  My previous employer was a cosmetic co that did all their retail sales through the internet.  The first year she was selling it was slim, and wholesale, expos and private label brought in most of the sales. After about 3 years the net based retail sales were even with the wholesale.    Keep at it, it won't happen overnight, but it will happen.


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## Harlow (May 21, 2009)

> do you honestly believe that soap is some unique product



Every product _is_ a unique product. What works or does not work for one person or for one product will not necessarily work or not work for a different product or a different person.

I have has excellent  experiences with online venues and trendy social networks, but then again I have a trendy product. You won't find my customer base at a flea market or a farmers market. Just as every product is unique, every customer base is unique as well.

The trick is to find out where your customers spend their time & be visible there.


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## Tabitha (May 21, 2009)

Daniel, 

As a moderator I felt it was necessary to attach a disclaimer to your advise. That disclaimer being you have never sold soap, nor have you ever tied, in any venue. Agreed, your advice should be taken with some salt. Now that the other readers of this thread have the bigger picture, they can make an informed decision as to how much salt...


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## Tabitha (May 21, 2009)

Getting back to the question - "How to get the best sales online"- I agree with Harlow. You first have to figure out what your customer base is. Are they trendy? Are they health nuts? Are they punk rockers? 20ish? 40ish? Footloose & single? Once you figure that out you need to figure out where they spend their online time. Do they twitter? Are the handmade etsy fans? Are they on the SAHM forums? From there you will know where to focus your time and funds.


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## Guest (May 21, 2009)

Tabitha said:
			
		

> Daniel,
> 
> As a moderator I felt it was necessary to attach a disclaimer to your advise. That disclaimer being you have never sold soap, nor have you ever tied, in any venue. Agreed, your advice should be taken with some salt. Now that the other readers of this thread have the bigger picture, they can make an informed decision as to how much salt...



Understood, but I don't see how you figure that I've mislead anyone or passed off assumption as fact.

If you re-read my post, about 95% of what I said is speaking directly about how selling ANYTHING online requires more than just supplemental actions like blogs and social networking sites.  You kind of bashed my whole post and made it sound as if I was passing off advice on how to be a successful soapmaker.  I doubt anyone read that as me giving advice exclusively on selling soap.


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## Guest (May 21, 2009)

Harlow said:
			
		

> > do you honestly believe that soap is some unique product
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I found it odd that you only quoted half of that statement I made.  Yes, soap is a unique product in and of itself; it is not, however, unique in the sense that the usual rules of sales and marketing don't apply to it (which is pretty much what the 2nd half of my sentence said).

Selling soap or selling cars both require the same essential marketing components: finding a target market and getting their attention.  Easier said than done.


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## Guest (May 21, 2009)

Deda said:
			
		

> Ashley, you're going to do great.  Blogging and etsy are excellent ways to drive traffic to your site.  My previous employer was a cosmetic co that did all their retail sales through the internet.  The first year she was selling it was slim, and wholesale, expos and private label brought in most of the sales. After about 3 years the net based retail sales were even with the wholesale.    Keep at it, it won't happen overnight, but it will happen.



Well said.  I think the misconception (which I blame on countless articles and "gurus" over-hyping these methods) is that useful things like blogs, or Twitter or YouTube videos will bring overnight success.  Like Deb said, in the long run they can be incredibly successful components of any business but the key is longterm visibility, which only comes with time, hard work and a great reputation.


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## AshleyR (May 21, 2009)

Thanks for the input everyone!

Just for the record, I don't expect to get rich overnight. Or ever. LOL  I was just looking for suggestions on other ways to get traffic to my site besides Twitter, YouTube, Blogger, etc.


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## Guest (May 21, 2009)

MrsJones said:
			
		

> Daniel, honey.  Why did you leave your previous positions?  It sounds like you would be just a-rollin-in-the-clover with all your savvy techniques.
> 
> One must wonder what went wrong?



I was a freelancer.  Nothing went wrong; I feel like I've moved on to bigger and better things 

I still do occasional consulting but one of my big passions these days is niche marketing.

Making soap has started taking up a lot of my time too.


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## surf girl (May 22, 2009)

Tabitha said:
			
		

> Daniel,
> 
> As a moderator I felt it was necessary to attach a disclaimer to your advise. That disclaimer being you have never sold soap, nor have you ever tied, in any venue. Agreed, your advice should be taken with some salt. Now that the other readers of this thread have the bigger picture, they can make an informed decision as to how much salt...



Tabitha, not to be a cow or anything (and I'm sure it's just a fabulous idea for me to dis a moderator), but I find this kind of commentary to be an odd thing for a mod to do. There have been plenty of posts in this forum giving questionable opinions or advice, without being editorialized by a moderator.  Comments while wearing the hat of 'forum member' (even very negative comments as long as they are polite) I have no issue with, but official moderator editorializing on one particular member's posts seems a little out of line.  (Aren't mods supposed to halt flame wars and other foulness, keep people from breaking forum rules, and the like?).  

Maybe I'm out of the loop and Danielito has some kind of shady past history about which we need to be obliquely warned.  I miss these things. But FWIW, his advice seemed very reasonable to me. (I sell a small amount of non-soapy product online).


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## Guest (May 22, 2009)

Danielito said:
			
		

> Deda said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Daniel I agree with you posts, a good marketing class is helpful to anyone entering sales, I remember some of the nuggets from my college marketing classes, that a potential buyer MUSt hear about you 3-5 times before they make a decision to buy, whether it's that Kmart advertisement laying on the couch and you pick it up repeatedly looking at the sales items or if you see the commercial, hear that a friend went to a particular store and then you walk past the place.  Basically the ideal to buy must be planted.

I do daycare, when i first started, me and my kids would flood a neighborhood with flyers, it's a good day if you put 500 flyers on the street and two people call.

Everyone who has to wash daily is my customer base for now, and those people I see and touch everyday and i talk to them, hand out samples and look for them for feedback.  I do want an online store but I feel online is a step more difficult for some products than hand to hand combat.


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## Guest (May 22, 2009)

surf girl said:
			
		

> Maybe I'm out of the loop and Danielito has some kind of shady past history about which we need to be obliquely warned.  I miss these things. But FWIW, his advice seemed very reasonable to me. (I sell a small amount of non-soapy product online).



LOL!  No shady past history here.  This is actually the 2nd time Tabitha has come out with guns blazing when I've posted advice/opinion on this forum.  The 1st time was when someone was asking for feedback on an idea they had to cut soap directly from a loaf for customers, I said it seemed to me it would be messy, time-consuming and I pointed out that a loaf would take longer to cure than cut bars (which is simple physics, it takes water longer to evaporate out of a loaf than a single bar).  Tabitha appeared, demanding to know what right I had to offer advice like that, I've never sold soap so how could I possibly know what I'm talking about, yadda yadda -- it was very off-putting.  She apologized, saying she'd somehow misread my feedback to mean that I had direct experience in the matter, even though I didn't imply that in the least.  I was just giving an educated opinion.

I PM'd her yesterday asking why, in this thread, she felt I'd mislead anyone or passed off any assumption as fact (when I've done nothing of the sort), but she hasn't responded.

I enjoy sharing my experience and knowledge in web design, search engine optimization, marketing and the technical end of the web, which I believe can be useful for a lot of other starting entrepreneurs in this forum.  I don't really get why Tabitha continually tries to discredit my advice, just because I haven't sold soap specifically.


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## surf girl (May 22, 2009)

Hi Dan. I've got no issue with someone pointing out that you haven't sold soap, if they think it's relevant.  I don't personally think it is, but the relevance can be debated and may the best debater win.  What stuck in my craw was the "as moderator" deal.  I've got a problem with mods seeing that as their job.  The mod is taking on the task of saying, in essence, "You don't know what you're talking about", which is outside the usual realm of what forum moderators do.


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## Guest (May 22, 2009)

I'll be the 1st to say I haven't sold soap.  I've always been forthcoming about my experience, in fact I introduced myself a few months back as someone who had only just begun researching soapmaking and hadn't even made my first batch at that point. 

My problem isn't her pointing out that I haven't sold soap, but just the way she does it -- which is with a nasty attitude, quite frankly.  She basically discredits everything I've said, and in this case accused me of "misleading people" and "passing off assumption as fact" when I have "no experience from which to draw my conclusions".

None of these are accurate are warranted statements.


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## surf girl (May 22, 2009)

And, in my opinion, it is doubly inappropriate if it comes as a sort of official "as moderator" statement, because that may, in some people's minds, give it credibility.  Not cool.

Oh, and sorry for the hijack, Ashley.


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## Guest (May 22, 2009)

AshleyR said:
			
		

> Thanks for the input everyone!
> 
> Just for the record, I don't expect to get rich overnight. Or ever. LOL  I was just looking for suggestions on other ways to get traffic to my site besides Twitter, YouTube, Blogger, etc.



You might try classifieds sites like Craigslist, not sure how much success you'll have there but they have categories where others sell handcrafted items.  Could be worth a try.

Also, writing articles about handmade soap and publishing them to sites like EzineArticles.com is a free way to educate people and direct them to your site.  These articles can show up in search engine searches.  Mainly they are great for search engine optimization (giving relevance to your site in the eyes of search engines, so that you are more likely to rank higher in specific keyword searches).


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## Deda (May 22, 2009)

You know what?  This is really pissing me off.

Tabitha voices her opinion and you all slam her for it.  She wasn't mean, she wasn't rude.  She simply voiced her opinion.  

You don't have to agree with it.  I know I read things daily , not just here, and think, "what an idiot, can't you read?"  She patiently answers questions, solves problems and keeps this place running.  One time ONE TIME she voices a concern or opinion that some don't agree with and the collective pounces on her?  What is that?  Should we be spoon feeding Pablum?  

But think about it, guys, would you feel so free to take aim if it wasn't a mod?


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## Guest (May 22, 2009)

Deda said:
			
		

> You know what?  This is really pissing me off.
> 
> Tabitha voices her opinion and you all slam her for it.  She wasn't mean, she wasn't rude.  She simply voiced her opinion.
> 
> ...



Deb, no offense but this is the 2nd time she's done this to me specifically -- which, ironically from what you just said, was just ME voicing an opinion and speaking from my own experience.  

I disagree with you that she wasn't rude in this case -- discrediting my whole post, telling me that I've mislead people and have no idea what I'm talking about is pretty rude.  Especially when I shared some sound advice and dispelled some persistent myths about the world of web marketing in my post.

I still have yet to hear from her or you or anyone how I mislead anyone or gave "misinformation" (a word you used in her defense).


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## Deda (May 22, 2009)

Danielito said:
			
		

> Deda said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dan - what she is saying that the relative ease of setting up on Etsy with a built in customer base makes online selling, especially of B&B, quite simple.  The treffic is already there, you just dress your window and post your products _(don't throw things at me, I know there is much more to Etsy than that, but geez.)_

It's apples and oranges, Esty vs a single website.  

A blanket statement about  like "Quote:
I think there is a general consensus that selling on the web is easier than in other venues, but it isn't."  Doesn't take into account sites like Etsy or Artfire, specifically with soap.


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## Deda (May 22, 2009)

Danielito said:
			
		

> I still have yet to hear from her or you or anyone how I mislead anyone or gave "misinformation" (a word you used in her defense).



When I said 
"_Tab wants only the best for this forum and misinformation is deadly to our reputation as a knowledge base._", I was not referring to you or anyone else.  We have a lot of new soapers here, it makes me cringe when someone with very little working knowledge about soapmaking gives dangerously wrong advice.


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## Guest (May 22, 2009)

Deda said:
			
		

> Dan - what she is saying that the relative ease of setting up on Etsy with a built in customer base makes online selling, especially of B&B, quite simple.  The treffic is already there, you just dress your window and post your products _(don't throw things at me, I know there is much more to Etsy than that, but geez.)_
> 
> It's apples and oranges, Esty vs a single website.
> 
> ...



I understand, but the built-in potential customer base that comes with sites like Etsy is extremely limited.  I'll repeat what I said earlier -- there is a myth going around that is putting the idea in peoples' heads that if they build an Etsy site (among others), the sales will start rolling in.  

Anyone serious about building a business online should know that relying on Etsy exclusively for their advertising is not a good idea.  So in that sense, the "apples and oranges" thing you mentioned doesn't matter -- in the end, the same marketing rules apply when you're going for a market outside the small world of Etsy.

Especially when you're talking about a product that Etsy is already saturated with.


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## surf girl (May 22, 2009)

I hope voicing my uneasiness is not considered "slamming" Tabitha.  I don't intend to attack anyone, but I do think it is fair to air a concern if I have one.  I've got no personal beef with Tabitha and I'm sure she's a great person and a fantastic SMF resource.  I'm assuming that it's OK for every member to speak frankly, as long as it's done civilly.  Saying "I have a problem with this" is not, in my world, anything to get riled up over - it simply opens the door to discussion.


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