# Looking for DIY linseed oil soap for wood



## spazlepoof (May 22, 2020)

I'm learning how to finish wood projects with different types of oil-based finish. I was recommended to use this type of soap to clean dirt off finished wood. Since this type of product is not available in Thailand, I will have to make it myself and it's a good excuse for me to try soapmaking.

Does anyone have a recipe to share? Pointing me to the sources would be much appreciated.   Here's the soap that was recommended to me:

*DESCRIPTION*
Linseed soap is made from cold-pressed raw, purified linseed oil and water. It is a pure natural product, without any additives.

*SOME WAYS TO USE
FOR PAINT BRUSHES AND HANDS*
Mix soap with a little water. Work into brushes and rinse.

*FOR WOODEN FLOORS*
Add about 1/2 cup of the soap to a bucket of water. Scrub and dry.


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## Zany_in_CO (May 23, 2020)

Hi @spazelpoof, and welcome!
I have made linseed oil soap and am happy to share the recipe. But there's more too it than just a recipe. The process, while easy enough for experienced soapers, it may be challenging to one who has never made soap before. Here is a link to learn more about the process. Be sure to read Post #2  the link to the Tutorial which lists *equipment* needed and *safety precautions*. 

*Basic Beginner Liquid Soap*

Also, you will need to find sources for
Boiled linseed oil
KOH (Potassium Hydroxide)
Distilled water

You need an online calculator to determine the amount of lye (KOH) needed to make a batch.
*http://www.soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp*

It is best to make a small 500 gram trial batch before attempting a "normal" batch. Using the calculator above, enter the following into the boxes provided:





Click the "Calculate" button. Then click the "View Recipe" button to take you to the next page to see how much KOH & the water amount you need to make the lye solution. Under "Notes" I wrote the amount of water needed for the dilution phase.


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## Saponificarian (May 31, 2020)

Hello @Zany_in_CO. How are you? Just thought to ask if you like the Linseed liquid soap you made? What does it feel like in liquid soap?

LS seems to be my thing now as I can make 100ml body/hand wash and enjoy any FO I want without waiting 6/8weeks  

I just got 1litre bottle of Linseed oil and I am thinking I should use some of it in liquid soap.


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## Zany_in_CO (May 31, 2020)

Saponificarian said:


> Hello @Zany_in_CO. How are you? Just thought to ask if you like the Linseed liquid soap you made? What does it feel like in liquid soap?


Hiya @Saponificarian! I'm well, thanks for asking. I hope you are the same! It's funny you should ask. I had a long chat with a Colorado soapmaker the other day. We haven't seen each other in years! We had a lot of catching up to do. Talked for a hour and a half! One thing she said that surprised me. She said that the soap I made that she liked best was the linseed oil LS for wood. (Murphey's dupe!) She used it to wash her wood floors and all the wood cabinets & window ledges in her house. You should definitely try it. Make a small batch because it lasts a long time. Here's how to use it:



> LINSEED OIL SOAP FOR WASHING WOOD:
> Better Basics for the Home, by Annie B. Bond (Three Rivers Press, 1999).
> 
> If you are lucky enough to have _soft water, a new floor soap-and a vegetable oil soap with linseed oil_--You can _add some fragrant herbal antibacterial tea such as peppermint or lavender,_ as well as a few other ingredients I like for wood, such as _vinegar or lemon juice_ because it pulls dirt out of wood so beautifully. Here is my favorite floor cleaning formula:
> ...


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## Saponificarian (May 31, 2020)

Thank you @Zany_in_CO

Thank you for the recipe. Is it nice as a body soap?


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## Zany_in_CO (May 31, 2020)

Saponificarian said:


> Thank you for the recipe. Is it nice as a body soap?


You're very welcome! I wouldn't say "nice" exactly because the odor of Linseed Oil is similar to Turpintine! I washed my hair with it on impulse and liked it. I later developed a liquid shampoo using Flaxseed oil, Coconut oil & Rosin which is one of my favorite shampoos, although the scent takes some getting used to.

*Zany's Flaxseed (aka Linseed) Shampoo*

NOTE: ROSIN saponifies much like an oil but without any resulting glycerin. It gives a smooth cold cream finish to the lather and also acts as a detergent and preservative. To calculate - Rosin has the same SAP value as Wheat Germ Oil. (NOTE: May cause contact dermatitis in sensitive  individuals).


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## Saponificarian (May 31, 2020)

Thank you @Zany_in_CO i will experiment a little when the oil get here.


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## Ansa Smit (Apr 8, 2021)

I have made this linseed oil soap, not a liquid soap but it definitely scrubs gunk of wood.


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 8, 2021)

Here's the recipe I copied off the YouTube site for those who may be interested:

55% Linseed / Flaxseed Oil 
30% Coconut Oil 
10% Stearic Acid 
5% Castor Oil 
7% Super Fat

NOTE: Linseed Oil (for wood) is available at Home Depot and other similar stores.
Flaxseed Oil (for the body) is available at Vitamin Cottage and Health Food stores.


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## earlene (Apr 9, 2021)

Flaxseed oil goes rancid pretty quickly, even refrigerated.Make sure to use ROE.

Linseed oil is far more stable.


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## ResolvableOwl (Apr 9, 2021)

+1 to maximum rancidity precautions. There is a reason why it is the preferred oil for oil paintings.

But is there really a difference between flaxseed oil and linseed oil? I thought both are synonymous: the oil coming from the seeds of _Linum usitatissimum_, and it's just a tradition to call it “linseed” when the seeds are addressed, and “flax” when you primarily refer to the fibre (which isn't even that clear; the word “linen” exists too).


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 9, 2021)

ResolvableOwl said:


> But is there really a difference between flaxseed oil and linseed oil?


Yes. From personal experience using both:

_Both flaxseed oil and linseed oil are extracted from seeds of the plant Linum usitatissimu. Flaxseed oil is pure and fit for human consumption; linseed oil goes through a refinement process and may contain additives that improve its paint-cleaning properties._

Source:* https://www.sharecare.com/health/flaxseed-oil/difference-flaxseed-oil-linseed-oil*

Flaxseeds and Flaxseed Oil are known to be excellent supplements for a healthy heart.

I first used Boiled Linseed Oil back in 1968 to clean, preserve and protect my natural finish teak dining room set. At that time, it was processed with methanol -- aka "wood alcohol"  which is toxic if ingested. I used it to formulate a DIY *Murphey's Liquid Oil Soap*. At that time, the ingredients contained known soaping oils (particularly linseed oil) and was easily duplicated for cleaning wood floors and cabinets. The ingredients have changed since then.

As it happened, on impulse, I tried using it for shampoo. It worked well but I was concerned about the methanol getting into my system. So that's when I switched to Flaxseed Oil to make my favorite *Flaxseed & Rosin Liquid Shampoo.*


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## ResolvableOwl (Apr 9, 2021)

Thanks. It's mostly a matter of linguistic semantics then. Both are called “Leinöl” in German, and the distinction is that you buy the food-grade one at the health/grocery store/supermarket (it has a long tradition in central European cuisine), and the technical-grade one at the hardware store or painter's supply.


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## earlene (Apr 9, 2021)

That may be, however, I have never had linseed oil go rancid, but every bottle of flaxseed oil from any market has gone rancid prior to using it all for dietary purposes.  (Quality/freshness may vary in markets.)


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 9, 2021)

earlene said:


> every bottle of flaxseed oil from any market has gone rancid prior to using it all for dietary purposes.


Good point. Flaxseed oil from the health food store where I buy it has a short shelf life. I wait until I'm ready to make it before buying. Then soap it right away. I've never tasted it. 

*Here's a link* that talks about shelf life and how to store it.


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## meast (Jan 1, 2022)

spazlepoof said:


> I'm learning how to finish wood projects with different types of oil-based finish. I was recommended to use this type of soap to clean dirt off finished wood. Since this type of product is not available in Thailand, I will have to make it myself and it's a good excuse for me to try soapmaking.
> 
> Does anyone have a recipe to share? Pointing me to the sources would be much appreciated.   Here's the soap that was recommended to me:
> 
> ...


popularwoodworking.com has Danish soap wood finish articles. I thought of using soap made from oils already used to finish wood and found this site. I made linseed oil and Tung oil soap with orange oil as a thinner. Using scrap oak boards it looks very nice. Easy to apply and nice feel. May not be as durable as varnishes, but is good for an old desk I am refinishing. The recipe is: 1/8 cup NaOH, 3/8 water, 1/8 orange oil, 7/8 oil. Wood is sanded up to 220 grit.


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## AliOop (Jan 1, 2022)

@meast that was such an interesting article - thank you! I am wondering if one could make the soap paste more directly by using a dual-lye method, instead of adding a bunch of water to shredded bar soap. But maybe the water is essential to raise the grain a bit so that the soap works its way into the wood. Is that the process you followed after making the bar soap recipe you listed?

It's all quite fascinating to me. When DH awakes from his NY morning nap (friends stayed late after dinner last night), I'll see what he thinks. He is a superb finish carpenter, trained by a Danish carpenter, so he may well know a bit about soap finishes. And if he doesn't, he will be interested in learning about it. 

It's always a good day when I learn something new - thanks again!


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## Zany_in_CO (Jan 1, 2022)

AliOop said:


> that was such an interesting article...
> I am wondering if one could make the soap paste more directly by using a dual-lye method, instead of adding a bunch of water to shredded bar soap.


I read the same article -- using soap flakes.
I didn't find the article that used @meast's formula:

1/8 cup NaOH
3/8 water
1/8 orange oil
7/8 oil

Translates to:
1 part NaOH
3 parts water
1 part orange oil
7 parts oil

I see no reason why you couldn't use dual lye @ 0% SF to make the paste but that NaOH formula makes a very soft soap -- even without the help of KOH.

Using 100% linseed oil on *SoapCalc*:
1 oz. wt. NaOH (rounded up) (0% SF)
3 oz. wt. water (rounded) (at 42% of oil weight)
7 oz. wt. linseed/flax oil




Then dilute, i.e., "thin" with
1 oz. wt. Orange EO


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## meast (Jan 2, 2022)

I don't understand the dual lye. My chemistry thought is the lye reacts with the fatty acids and the "salt" now has part with ions and dissolves in water and a tail that likes oil. So one can wash their hands by having the soap mix with both water and oils. My thoughts were the Danish soap was animal tallow. What if one used furniture oils? My formula doesn't correct for molecular weight. Sometimes it is better to just try. Somehow my Tung oil formed a nice buttery consistency. The linseed oil version is also buttery, but with some unreacted oil. One thought is to use less lye and then filter out the excess oil. I experimented on oak from a pallet. Now I am putting it on some cabinet drawers, the parts that were never finished. Seems to add a dark rich stain. This way I can watch it over time without it hurting the normal use. Maybe we can experiment some more? First coat is diluted so it penetrates. First coat is high alkaline (lye with some oil?) then oil or low alkaline oil. The wood is set up to react with the oil. Also just try more mixtures of mineral spirits, orange oil. Stearic Acid to thicken? I like the paste I get without it. I am guessing other oils, butters, aren't as good. I have spilled lye water on particle board and it dissolves the glue and the wood comes apart. Thank you for the thread.


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## ResolvableOwl (Jan 2, 2022)

@meast
*“Dual-lye”* keeps the amount of hydroxide anions constant, but use a blend of sodium and potassium as cations. It makes bar soaps (a few % K) softer, and liquid soaps (a few % Na) “harder”, i. e. more viscous, but also can lead to turbidity and separation if overdone.
For saponification and the action of the soaps, only the amount of hydroxide is relevant. The counterions only influence the consistency of the final soap. That's why @AliOop and @Zany_in_CO proposed it – bad experiences with diluted “liquid” sodium-based soap. On the other hand, flaxseed oil is an oddball to work with from the bar-soap perspective. Many worthwile soapmaking wisdoms can't be applied without restriction.


meast said:


> use less lye and then filter out the excess oil


This is technically possible, but very tedious. When you have the saponification value (=molecular weight) of flaxseed oil, and confidence in the purity of your lye(s), no excess of either oils or lye (0%SF in soapmaker parlando) is easy to obtain.
But then, woodworking amateur me doesn't understand if it is bad at all to have an excess of unreacted flaxseed oil or not? I mean, pure flaxseed is a viable wood treatment by itself. Are the oil and the soap coating somehow incompatible? What about resinification? (pure flaxseed soap itself, without excess oil, is prone to resinification too, and soapmakers are (rightfully) panicking when they notice any type of oxidative breakdown/rancidity/DOS, while this is exactly what the woodworkers (and oil paint artists) want to happen!)

@Zany_in_CO 
*INS = –6* 
I love flaxseed oil! The orthodox INS doctrine would state that even plain water would make a better soap than flaxseed oil.


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## meast (Jan 2, 2022)

I went ahead and used the soap. The excess oil just forms a puddle and I can pick up just the reacted parts. I did use some of the oil as well on some kitchen drawers. I am sure linseed oil alone would be okay. The soap gives the wood a more solid look and a smooth finish. The orange oil has a faint and pleasant smell. We have high humidity and many bugs so it may help.
I suppose the wood has acids that will react to hydroxides as well. Maybe activate the wood first then add oils or low hydroxide soap. The oils would bind to the wood? I have some scrap wood I could experiment with. I need to read more about the dual lye. My simple model is there are equal amounts of Na+ or K+ cations as there are OH- anions. With the K+ being more reactive.  I use to have Lithium and Cesium, Rubidium after cleaning out the ion source. Maybe Lithium makes a very mild soap and helps with mental health?
I am very pleased with the soap finish. Any help with stains?


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## ResolvableOwl (Jan 2, 2022)

Na⁺ and K⁺ are equally reactive – or rather, unreactive. Once alkaline metals have lost their surplus electron, they are very happy to stay as they are (= uninterested in _chemical_ reactions). It might well be that a sodium soap reacts with metallic potassium – but luckily that's out of reach for kitchen/workshop chemistry for obvious reasons.

From the chemical properties (including cleansing action), there is exactly zero difference between NaOH and KOH soaps (and any blend of the two) – the differences between bar/liquid/cream soap is only due to their tendency to stay in solution (K's business) or rather form curds/slime/crystals/solids (Na's preference) – _physical_ reactions.

Lithium soap is actually a thing. AFAIK it is more similar to soap scum (Ca/Mg soaps) than to Na/K soaps, in that it has no cleaning/bubbly action, and is insoluble in water. It is technically used as a lubricant and gelling agent for (mineral) oils. But I wouldn't recommend melancholic people lick wood . Just as with virtually all other salts, I'd expect Rb and Cs soaps to be very similar to K soaps (just more expensive).

Idk, is there a wood equivalent to concrete soap? It is possible to seal concrete surfaces to a terrazzo-like finish by treating it with soap. It'll form the same calcium salts that are dreaded by the sink as soap scum, soft enough to be easily polished, and water-repellent. A similar effect might be achieved by combining soaps and Ca/Mg/Li solutions inside wood.


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## meast (Jan 3, 2022)

Zany_in_CO said:


> I read the same article -- using soap flakes.
> I didn't find the article that used @meast's formula:
> 
> 1/8 cup NaOH
> ...


I also made with Tung oil. Sap number seems to be higher. Also very soft. Hard to see the difference in the wood finish. I will watch some boards and see what happens. Would softer Potassium soap be better for wood? Would an alcohol instead of of water be of interest? Is your Danish friend interested or have any thoughts. I am having fun with this and enough results to pass some on to my Finnish Friend who restores furniture and buildings. He just designed he new Finnish Classroom for the University of Pittsburgh.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jan 4, 2022)

meast said:


> Would softer Potassium soap be better for wood?


Just my preference but I would use KOH instead of NaOH to make a soft paste suitable for cleaning wood.


meast said:


> Would an alcohol instead of of water be of interest?


No. Something like 50/50 Oil/mineral spirits might work to restore an old finish, although I have seen "denatured alcohol" recommended for removing the finish on antique furniture to prepare for a new finish. In my experience, the process takes a long time and several applications.

For cleaning and restoring the hand-rubbed finish on my 1" thick custom made teak table that I bought in Hong Kong in 1968, I was advised to apply "boiled linseed oil", allow to sit for 24 hours, then wipe with a dry cloth.


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## meast (Mar 12, 2022)

More experiments than science. Here are some results. The towel rack is freshly made linseed oil, NaOH lye. Rubbed on the wood while still liquid. Full reaction may take several days and the color noticeable darkens. The pallet wood and hammers are with weeks-old NaOH lye and linseed oil, tung oil soap.  The Hammers are very nice. Good grip. Soft smooth feel. Does not have the shiny, commercial look of varnish. Note these were from yard sales and started out as black greasy, dirty old tools. Better than new!
I am guessing the young, active soap also reacts with the tannins in the wood. Darkens the color, reacts more with the grain emphasizing it. (I have just put lye on wood which comes out dark to black) Also, forms a bond with the wood making a better finish than just wax, oil, stain, varnish.


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## meast (Mar 12, 2022)

Ace Hardware step stool. Pine wood. I added tannins then 50% linseed oil, 50% tung oil and KOH lye. A little too red in color. Still, it is protected from footprints, oils and has its own charm. I would recommend people do more with the "things" around them. 
Similar to making your own soaps with colors, shapes. Having art from necessary practical items?
Thought you guys would like to see my vanilla plant in bloom. 2 years, more than 20 feet long now. Hoping for beans as well. Thinking people do other things and I get to show off a little.


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## meast (Mar 12, 2022)

I did make a batch of  Kevin Dunn's Duckbar Delight.  It is 2 weeks old and curing. I can understand the joy of making soap and enjoy the youtube videos. This site has me interested in personal soap now. My jasmine is budding. Maybe some essential oils?


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