# It's not all that it's cracked up to be.



## Cat&Oak (Nov 16, 2021)

I'm finding myself feeling blah about my business right now. @AliOop got me really thinking about what I am doing. I filed dissolution paperwork with my state today for my LLC. I use a company called Zen Business to take care of all my paperwork but it costs $600 a year to keep it going and I'm not selling anything at all besides what friends and family bought from my website initially. 

I really felt like I did everything correctly preparing making sure I had insurance, LLC, business account etc. The one thing I didn't have was something that differentiated me from other soap makers. I felt that I could hit the ground running having prepared so well and having good soap. 

Having videos and Instagram made zero difference. Having a gorgeous website and beautiful soap made no difference. Adding products made no difference. Being on Shopify having safe and secure purchasing was no help either. I would get views but no purchases. I went up on my prices and down to $6.50 a bar and nothing. Shopify does have a feature that let's you put your store on pause for $9 a month and I did that for now until I figure this all out.. I didn't buy Google or Facebook ads because I couldn't justify the expense.

I can still have a sole proprietorship and do markets around here and that is probably what I will do. But the real issue is I don't enjoy the business aspects of running a soap company...at all. All the ins and outs are tedious to me. I love creating but the constant worry and stress are getting to me. It's hard when you put so much heart and money into something and the public is not interested no matter how hard you try. 

I know I will probably get a big "I told you so." from some people. I don't have a lot of self esteem and I'm sure that doesn't help either.  

I just don't know if selling is for me. It's all been very disappointing so far. I have been  browsing the big name hand made soapers and a lot of them have lowered their prices and are not constantly sold out like they used to be. They are making more things for their stores, mostly candles. Perhaps it was a bad time to start a soap making company.

Am I the only one struggling right now? I am going to take a step back from this and reevaluate whether this is something I really want to do or not.

Thanks for listening


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 16, 2021)

Bless you - no "told you so" (as I didn't tell you) but I think it illustrates a reason why many of us recommend not turning a hobby in to a business too quickly - there is a massive difference between a hobby and a business, or even a hobby and a side hussle. 

I am pretty good with a camera, and LOVED taking pictures. So I did a course and started shooting weddings. I was doing well as a side hussle and enjoyed the work, but I also lost the love of just taking pictures for me. I would only use my camera for work. Even when I stopped doing weddings (I still do it for friends and family sometimes) it took a long time before I would be able to pick up my camera for fun, and I think the big catalyst for that was having children!

And with soaping, it is that business side of things which makes the difference, and is pretty much a make or break aspect of it all. Back to photography, a friend of mine took better pictures, but wasn't as good with people or at the business side of things, which resulted in me actually being a better wedding photographer even though he was a better photographer.

I feel for you, but I am also impressed that you made the decision to step back a bit and could be so honest about it.


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## soapmaker (Nov 16, 2021)

What a challenge. I feel for you without any judgment. I think you show strength in character to step back and give such an honest evaluation of your situation. Perhaps too much too fast. It takes time to build a business. Perhaps take a job in something you are passionate about and do soap as a side hussle for a time until you build up enough happy clientele to go to business. There are always things about anything we undertake to do that we don't like. We can't love it all! All the best going forward!


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## SoapDaddy70 (Nov 16, 2021)

I commend you for your honesty. I started making soap as a way to tame my anxiety and find a hobby that had a creative outlet for someone with not a creative bone in their body, As I started giving my soap away I got the usual "Oh why don't you sell your soap...." I dipped my toes into research for what it would take and right away I knew it wasn't going to happen. Granted, I am a pessimist and do not have the type of personality to throw caution to the wind so I knew in my heart that this was going to be a hobby and nothing more. Sometimes I think being successful in such an oversaturated market as soapmaking is just dumb luck. The part of your post that struck me was "The one thing I didn't have was something that differentiated me from other soap makers" To be honest, with so many soapmakers out there what could you possibly do that sets you apart from someone else. Vegan? Goats Milk? Honey? Beeswax? Expensive luxury oils? Look up any of these niche markets and you could probably find 10-15 soapmakers doing the same exact thing. What happens in saturated markets like this is people will start undercutting everybody else and lowering prices to the point that you can't even turn a profit.


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## dibbles (Nov 16, 2021)

I think what you are doing by stepping away for awhile to reassess is a good decision. You now know what having a soap business entails, and in a month or two you can be in a better position to decide if this is something you want to continue to do. If you decide you don't want to continue, don't think of it as a failure. You tried something - it wasn't for you. There is nothing wrong with that. 

On the other hand, I have a friend who worked very hard by doing multiple markets. Every weekend she attended at least one. She also started her web store at about the same time. It took five years of this before her web store gave enough business that she was able to start dropping the number of markets she was doing. Now, at ten years, she will be done with the one market she still attends. Her web store keeps her busy enough. Her business was built by being out there - if she hadn't been out there meeting people and talking to them and was only relying on customers finding her online I doubt that she would have the success she is now enjoying. But it took a lot of hard work over a long period of time. 

Good luck, Cat. You have to make the decision that is right for you.


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## soapmaker (Nov 16, 2021)

dibbles said:


> I think what you are doing by stepping away for awhile to reassess is a good decision. You now know what having a soap business entails, and in a month or two you can be in a better position to decide if this is something you want to continue to do. If you decide you don't want to continue, don't think of it as a failure. You tried something - it wasn't for you. There is nothing wrong with that.
> 
> On the other hand, I have a friend who worked very hard by doing multiple markets. Every weekend she attended at least one. She also started her web store at about the same time. It took five years of this before her web store gave enough business that she was able to start dropping the number of markets she was doing. Now, at ten years, she will be done with the one market she still attends. Her web store keeps her busy enough. Her business was built by being out there - if she hadn't been out there meeting people and talking to them and was only relying on customers finding her online I doubt that she would have the success she is now enjoying. But it took a lot of hard work over a long period of time.
> 
> Good luck, Cat. You have to make the decision that is right for you.


Oh so true. I found that being "out there" at markets and such is when you really move product and build your repeat customers.


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## Cat&Oak (Nov 16, 2021)

Thank you all for your kind and insightful replies ❤ I'm glad I "put it all out there" I appreciate you all so much.  You have become my family here.


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## cmzaha (Nov 16, 2021)

No one should be telling you, "I told you so." Building a soap business is very very hard and I can only imagine it is extremely hard today. When my daughter and I started I told her we were a few years too late but she worked hard and made her m&p business work well enough to support her family for the years she stayed in business. I did the cp end and the outdoor business while she handled the online end of the business. It was hard hard work. She was on her computer daily promoting the business while my husband and I attended up to 5 markets per week for almost 10 yrs. FYI I never went the LLC route as I am very against corps, yes I have been involved in business corporations. We started during the time sample box companies were popular which my daughter sent a lot of samples too. I would gain us a few customers but was extremely hard work. My daughter stayed in business and supported her family for approx 5yrs until too many DIY sites became popular for Bath and Body products.

I made the decision right after covid hit to shut down my business, which was easy with no corp to worry about, due to losing my last good market. My decision was more due to health and age. But if you really want to succeed it takes years and lots of exposure both online and attending markets or footwork to gain wholesale accounts, which I never did. I refused to make and sell my products at wholesale prices plus we loved meeting and talking to customers at markets. Two years later I still get calls and send out deodorants and soaps to a few old customers. I miss attending markets even today, but I could not expect my husband to continue carrying heavy soap and product crates with his cervical issues.

I wish you good luck with whatever final decision you come up with. Maybe we can meet up sometime when I get moved to Winnemucca. I am considering making soap again when I relocate since I will have a huge reptile/craft room.


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## Misschief (Nov 16, 2021)

I've noticed the same thing that dibbles did. I'm in year 4 of doing my one market - just one. I'm finally seeing a following, people seeking me out. My last market was my best one to date. I have people from out of town asking about buying online but I'm completely unapologetic about not having one. I do let them know that they can contact me directly if they want something; I'm happy to do it that way.

I made the decision not to set up a business web page, other than FB and Instagram. I have a website but it has been sorely neglected. As well, I still have a full time job so I just don't have the time to commit to a web store or multiple markets. For me, this is just enough for now.

I commend you for giving it a go. Knowing when to step back is just as important as knowing when to step up. Good on you for recognizing that it was time.  (((hugs)))


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## maryloucb (Nov 16, 2021)

I'm sorry you are having such a rough time, but good for you to take a step back to see if it is really something you want to do. I make soap because I love doing it, I like having my own handmade products to use, and I enjoy giving my soap away as gifts to friends and family. I do sell a little here and there, mainly just to help cover some of the costs of making it, and because people have requested it. It's never going to be a big business for me, so I don't treat it as such. I do have a website, but I mostly just sell to friends and family (and it was fun for me to make the website.) I may do a market at some point, but I'm not even sure about that. It's not something that I want to stress at all about--it's all just for fun, and if it ever becomes stressful, I will stop selling.

May I ask what paperwork the Zen Business takes care of that they charge $600 for?


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## Cat&Oak (Nov 16, 2021)

Having an LLC in Nevada with a registered agent is $450 a year and I was on the premium plan which included business email and website which is not e-commerce ready btw. So that was an additional $250 a year for them to keep me in compliance. You would think I was rich but far from it I just didn't know how to do it myself.









						Formation Pricing, Products and Services | ZenBusiness Inc.
					

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## maryloucb (Nov 16, 2021)

Cat&Oak said:


> Having an LLC in Nevada with a registered agent is $450 a year and I was on the premium plan which included business email and website which is not e-commerce ready btw. So that was an additional $250 a year for them to keep me in compliance. You would think I was rich but far from it I just didn't know how to do it myself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow! It's $10 a year in Colorado to register your LLC! I work for an attorney who serves as a registered agent for LLCs and in addition to the $10, we charge about $8 more to file the periodic report. $450 is insane!


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## TheGecko (Nov 16, 2021)

No...it's not, it's a lot of freaking work and it can take several years (and thousands of dollars) before you can see any black ink.

A little reality check...all those 'big name hand made soapers'...they weren't always 'big name hand made soapers'. Tiggy, Katie, Holly, Ariane, Teri, Karen, Keeley, Lisa, Julie, Clyde, Patrick, Holly, Ellen, etc...all these folks have been making soap for a decade or more. And if one were to judge them based on YT, Katie is the only one who is truly "big name" with almost 900k subscribers. On the whole, Katie's soap recipe is nothing special...it's BB's basic recipe with a little (5%) Sweet Almond Oil added in, but she is where she is for two reasons...huge family support and marketing. She's the Duchess of Suds, her followers are the Royal Court, small town girl makes good, she makes 'high tops' that are over the top, she rarely repeats her design, soap releases, soap collections. But as you noted, she's not selling out like she used to. She did a video last month in which she noted that viewership had slowed down and so she is trying new things.

Here's the thing...some hobbies aren't meant to be businesses. Back in my twenties I used to sew...made my husbands shirts, made all my clothes, my kids' clothes. I loved sewing and I was very good at it. After our second child, it was decided I would be a SAHM and I turned my hobby into a business. I loved doing the "Baby Stuff" (my label)...sheet sets for cradles, nightgowns, bibs...very exclusive stuff for a high end shop at my convenience. It was the rest that I got to hate. The whole 'sewing on demand' thing, fittings, changes, trying to alter a size 8 design for a size 22 woman. I haven't touched a sewing machine in over thirty years.

On the other hand...there are sometimes opportunities that come our way. I didn't set out to start a LDP (legal document preparation) business...I was just helping out a friend with his paperwork. Then I helped out a friend of the friend and that friend gave me some money for my time and recommended someone else. Word of mouth and a year later, I quit my full-time job. Finally reached a point where I was going to have to hire someone when the world stopped turning...9/11. I was starting to recover when local attorneys finally discovered how much money was to be made in Pro-Se litigation and started offering the same services, but with a hook I couldn't complete with because I wasn't an attorney.

I didn't plan on selling soap, I just wanted to learn how to make Goat Milk Soap for myself and my family. I enjoy making soap, but I'm not 'passionate' about it. I'm not overly creative either... I don't do 'color theory', I don't do 'vegan' or 'all natural', I don't like crap on my soap or a bunch of it in my soap, I don't do 'embeds' or soap dough or piping or sculpting. I have zero interest in making candles or bath bombs or shampoo or linen sprays. I think that that is what has been so frustrating for me and why it was taken me so long to move forward. My original idea was to make a good quality that everyone could enjoy and would become a staple in their home. But then I got caught up in all the colorants and scents and designs and techniques and molds and...down the rabbit hole I went and getting further and further away from my original idea.

I think you are absolutely doing the right thing.  And even better...you can have your cake and eat it too; it's called a "hobby business" and it's very simple.  No complicated accounting, just track your sales and report it it on Line 8 of the 1040.  You'll want a business name for your label and that is simple too...Assumed Name or DBA (doing business as) or Fictitious Name are filed on the county level; fill out the form, have it notarized (your bank should do it for free) and pay the fee.  It should be noted that this is not the same as a Trade Name, which gives you the sole right to the same.  And your insurance.  That's it.  You can now go back to enjoying making soap and going to markets as you want, when you want.


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## AliOop (Nov 16, 2021)

@Cat&Oak I have dipped into and out of selling for almost two years now, and for all the reasons you mentioned. We even seriously considered buying a local soap-making business. It was a good price for all the equipment and local wholesale accounts that were included, such as Whole Foods, Albertsons, Natural Grocers, etc.

If I didn't have a very busy day job, and another side hustle, and far-flung family to visit and church commitments (and, and),  then maybe it would make more sense to get serious about a soaping business. It sure would be nice if I could get back at least the cost of my ingredients and supplies. But realistically, I would have to squeeze all the business end of soaping into my "spare" time (i.e., when I should be sleeping). This would leave me zero breathing room in my life. Plus, soaping would become a have-to instead of a get-to.

I'm not saying "never," but I am saying, "not now." Sounds like you are doing the same, and it is a good thing. I would echo those who said that there is no shame or loss in trying something and then deciding it is not for you. Or not for right now. In my book, that's not a failure, but a success. You are being true to you, and your life's priorities. Good on ya!


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## Cat&Oak (Nov 16, 2021)

maryloucb said:


> Wow! It's $10 a year in Colorado to register your LLC! I work for an attorney who serves as a registered agent for LLCs and in addition to the $10, we charge about $8 more to file the periodic report. $450 is insane!


Nevada is the second highest LLC in the nation which I don't understand...higher than California? Why?

The whole "be different than other soapers" I got from Soapmaker to Moneymaker and honestly it is insane how can you be? But kudos to Kenna she is savvy, she found a way to make a living teaching soapers to become businesses but even she said it wasn't for everyone. 

You are right Gecko about the big name soapers and I have EVEN more admiration for all of them for all their hard work and success. 

Did you know that in 2019 there were over 300,000 soap making businesses in the US? 

Alioop I'm with you and thank you everyone for sharing your personal experiences with your businesses. It means a lot to me that you all took the time to respond.


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## AliOop (Nov 16, 2021)

Sorry to disappoint @Cat&Oak, but CA is higher... $800 per year minimum tax on every CA LLC, even if you sell nothing, or have a loss. They charge this same fee to every out-of-state LLC that makes any sales within CA, too.

Edit: plus, you have to file separate LLC sales tax returns in CA. That means either figuring it out yourself, or paying someone to do that for you. Total PITT.


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## rcreger (Nov 16, 2021)

TheGecko said:


> <SNIP>
> 
> I didn't plan on selling soap, I just wanted to learn how to make Goat Milk Soap for myself and my family. I enjoy making soap, but I'm not 'passionate' about it. I'm not overly creative either... I don't do 'color theory', I don't do 'vegan' or 'all natural', I don't like crap on my soap or a bunch of it in my soap, I don't do 'embeds' or soap dough or piping or sculpting. I have zero interest in making candles or bath bombs or shampoo or linen sprays. I think that that is what has been so frustrating for me and why it was taken me so long to move forward. My original idea was to make a good quality that everyone could enjoy and would become a staple in their home. But then I got caught up in all the colorants and scents and designs and techniques and molds and...down the rabbit hole I went and getting further and further away from my original idea.



I have been on a similar journey. I started with HP shaving soap and moved into CP in part because it's a natural pairing, and I really dislike how commercial syndet soaps feel on my skin. Likewise, I don't do any of the above. No colors, shapes, embeds, blah, blah, blah. I don't even do markets or shows. Despite all that, I have built a following for my CP soaps, but it has taken YEARS to get here.


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## glendam (Nov 16, 2021)

I am with you on not liking the business aspect of it, I especially hate the marketing part.  In a free class from Kenna, she mentioned that once you have a soap business, about 80% of the time will be spent in marketing and only a small percentage of time in the actual making of soap, which she probably mentioned in the course (?) or enrollment you took. That was eye opening for me.

I recently made the decision to remove my soap listings from my square website, since it was too much work to add them only to later remove them because I gave away the soap.  I had a few online sales before COVID, but nothing lately, only in person.  It felt so nice and freeing.  I have a square card reader, so listing them through their store site had no additional cost, only processing fees when something sold.

I also did one Christmas market last weekend (the only one all year).  Sadly, my soaps are mostly bought as gifts or for display, so I only make attempts to sell them in person at Christmas time. I dread doing markets too, but once I am there, it is not so bad. Anyway, the response from the market made me think that perhaps that is all I need to do, one yearly market and the rest of the time enjoy it as a hobby.
Whichever decision you take, wait until you are in a good mood to make it, not when feeling blah about soap making/selling 
Perhaps find ways to do it inexpensively like @TheGecko suggested.  One reason I have my own name in my “soap business“ is to avoid doing the DBA until it grows enough to justify it, same for an LLC.  I discussed this with my CPA initially, and he just does a schedule (A or B?) to report my income and expenses from the different avenues I have.  Personally, I find that providing a service (like photography or face painting) has usually been more profitable than making and selling a product, because I do not enjoy the latter probably, and there is a higher demand for the other.

One last thing I learned from watching Shark tank, most of the people in the show have a “cost of acquisition”, they spend money (in ads in social media usually) to acquire customers.  I am too cheap to do that, but I have heard it recommended in the business boutique group (they said they ads are cheap).

Like most others have said, it does take time, usually years and then you are an “overnight success”, the current times are definitely making it more difficult for all business in general, so take that into account too.


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## cerelife (Nov 17, 2021)

Cat&Oak said:


> The one thing I didn't have was something that differentiated me from other soap makers.


Doing markets and festivals is a great way to create your 'niche' and set yourself apart from everyone else! What do you want customers to think/feel when they see your products and display? Let your imagination run wild and create your own little world in your tent.
For example: I based my branding on luxury. My soaps probably aren't that different from any other soapmaker, but my branding, packaging, and bags are based on the idea of Tiffany & Co. I want my customers to have no doubt that my products are an indulgence and my tent display is an extension of that idea. It's over the top (think a crazed baroque style) with a mini chandelier hanging from the center of my tent, but it does tend to catch people's attention!
Granted the full display isn't feasible for a single market day, but it's great for festivals and art shows.
I love doing festivals )
I hope this helps you in even some little way and I wish you well!!


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## Professor Bernardo (Nov 17, 2021)

I sell on Ebay right now.  Tried setting up an Amazon shop and it was a total PITA!  (I'm not talking about flatbreads either.)

I tried Etsy but there are over 2500 listings for shave soaps alone on Etsy.  The are about 1,634 listings for shave soap on Ebay, however when doing a generic search titled "Shave Soap", my three listings appear in the first 10 listings.  Not too bad I would say.  I believe folks are more concerned about the Holidays right now and shave soap is a consumable that lasts quite a long time to be honest.  I plan on adding my new shave soap paste in 4 oz. jars soon too.  I have piddled around with that formula for a few months and I think I have finally got it to be SPOT ON! I will be adding bar soaps too early next year.

Yes, Ebay does take a chunk of change when I sell.  I did really well in the beginning. These past two months it's really slowed down, like really slow.  

I plan on doing a website via SQUARE, not Squarespace, but SQUARE.  This is the same company that has those CC readers that plug into smartphones for selling at places like farmer's markets, etc.  It's called Square For Retail.  No monthly fee, a 2.9% plus 30¢ online transaction fee. Now Square for Retail offers several options, the free one is just for small Mom & Pop operations.  It's other options are for bigger businesses with both brick and mortar plus online presence.  For me I believe it will be a good fit.

Regarding business conditions at this present time, I think it has a lot to do with a general "malaise" affecting the entire nation right now.  I won't get political because every time I do I always tick some person off in one way or another. Let's just say, to paraphrase Shakespeare... "There's something rotten in the State of Denmark".  

The 60 MINUTES piece the other night about the logjams at the West Coast ports was insightful because it is not a shortage of trucks, truck drivers, workers, etc.  It is because the ports are jammed full with EMPTY shipping containers and no where to put them while trying to unload the ships.  Plus, as usual the ports are run by the municipalities that they're located in.  Yes, point a finger at Long Beach and Los Angeles.  In the Netherlands, the port facilities are run by a APM Terminals, a private company that INVESTS in upgrading their facilities on a regular basis, using modern logistics software, etc.

Gawd... I am so sorry for my soapbox minute.    

@Cat&Oak  I think the basic difference is between selling and marketing.  
Selling Green Chile pork tamales on the streets of San Antonio TX is easy, trying to sell them in Bangor ME takes some marketing. 

I wish you all the best in your future endeavors going forward.  I also appreciate all the behind the scenes support you showed to me during a recent kerfuffle regarding starting up a new forum sub-section.  At least the powers that be were insightful enough to add a prefix modifier when creating a new thread. 

Darn it... time to adjust the Warp Drive coils and get this ol' jalopy back into orbit!  LOL!  

For my secret advisor...


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## Trinbago27 (Nov 17, 2021)

Wow… this is why I love this forum!

I have been in the same situation as Cat…however, it is still in the hobby stage for me. I live making soap, like really love it! Without it being a business it is already an expensive hobby to have. I control costs and established a budget for myself from the very beginning for colors, fragrances etc. I also make small batches so I can make different soaps with the same base materials of a 5lb batch.

I am being hopeful, patient, but still having fun. Thank you to this forum for all the good information you have and give with no judgement.


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## TheGecko (Nov 17, 2021)

glendam said:


> Perhaps find ways to do it inexpensively like @TheGecko suggested. One reason I have my own name in my “soap business“ is to avoid doing the DBA until it grows enough to justify it, same for an LLC. I discussed this with my CPA initially, and he just does a schedule (A or B?) to report my income and expenses from the different avenues I have. Personally, I find that providing a service (like photography or face painting) has usually been more profitable than making and selling a product, because I do not enjoy the latter probably, and there is a higher demand for the other.



Even though I am not publicly selling soap, I went ahead and secured my business name and domain name.  The cost per year is less than what I used to spend on my Friday Medium Kicker at Dutch Bros.

Schedule C...Schedule A is for Itemized Deductions, Schedule B is for Interest & Dividends.

With regards to 'service' vs 'product'...not really. You're forgetting about labor costs. When I had my LPD business, I either charged a flat rate or an hourly rate. Those rates were based partly on expenses like...rent, electric, water, telephone, internet, printing, office supplies, depreciation of equipment (computer, monitor, keyboard, mouse, printer, fax machine) and software. Then there is the cost of labor; I had to treat MY labor the same as if I had an employee. 

So while Face Painting may seem more 'profitable' because paint is cheap, how much is your time worth?


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## Peachy Clean Soap (Nov 17, 2021)

@Cat&Oak 
Wow' thank you for sharing your heartfelt real emotions & your hard choices you've made in your soap making business. Not only does your post reflects the reality & struggles' of the business it allows others to share their soap journey on the business side of it. Big Hugs' though your soap may not be selling like " Hot Cakes! Flying Out The Door"! Your creative soap designs are beautiful  .  

Personally i'm still struggling w/ failure to launch! across the board'   I sale very little to friends' mainly give soap away as gifts throughout the year.
I do want to sale at our local Farmers Market, but not sure If I gotta get a city license & a Tax ID? UGH.  In the US & globally times are uncertain in so many areas' I'm thinking maybe ppl would think twice about spending 6.00 for a bar of soap? just my thoughts I could be totally wrong?.  So I set here in limbo enjoying my Soap Hobby.  Thank you Dear & everyone for sharing your soap business journey's so informative & in sight full.


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## Cat&Oak (Nov 17, 2021)

The kindness of this forum has me in tears  I felt safe to share my struggles because of what sweet @Peachy Clean Soap said, people are non judgemental.

As business owners alot of times if we are struggling or failing we tend to keep it to ourselves. My Dad used to say "No one likes a loser" he was a successful business owner so the fact I couldn't do it just reinforces what my birth family thinks of me anyway. But I'm not letting that get to me I have to make smart decisions for myself.

@Professor Bernardo thank you for sharing your thoughts and I think you are spot on. Everyone no matter what side of the political spectrum you reside on is suffering from Covid fatigue. Costs and shortages are everywhere. Gas here is $4.25 a gallon!

So it makes sense that people are not indulging in buying right now.

I took down my YouTube channel as well because my shop is also down. I had a kind soul message me this morning because they couldn't find my videos.

I had my LLC and city licensing coming due which would have been another $800. My husband has funded my soap business as I am not working right now. We have been married 33 years and he is such a sweetheart he would gladly give that money but I can't ask that of him when I am spinning my wheels.

@cerelife and @glendam thank you so much for sharing what is happening with your businesses. I do think it was probably the worst time I could have started a business. Kenna is right I spent all day every day doing as much marketing as I was comfortable with.
Google and Facebook ads can be a black hole of debt if you aren't careful but had I used that avenue I may have gotten my first golden "stranger" sale.

Oh and for markets I don't have tents or tables or POS software so that was another expense I was pondering.

Customers have no idea how much goes into that bar of soap we sell. Like all of you I love making soap  but I'm not sure I love it enough to do markets for 5-10 years to start making a profit and that's okay.


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## glendam (Nov 17, 2021)

@TheGecko  Well, the paints are not necessarily cheap but they do have a large yield.  I tend to buy too many, but now I am trying to be more practical, since I have not really done much of that business since covid. 
 However, the way I saw it after I did my second show in 2019 with soap, was that in 2 hours of face painting, I could have made the money I made in that show.  
I sold a little over $200 for a 9-3 show,  for which traffic stopped after lunch.  It was not a very good show money wise, but there was something about people wanting to give me money for these bars that I usually give away to friends and family that was encouraging.  Thankfully this third show I did recently was more successful, almost got to my goal.
With face painting there is the cost of driving, gas, vehicle depreciation, the prep work before, getting ready and painting myself to look the part, and the cleaning of brushes and sponges once I am home, etc. So I know I am not comparing apples to apples, but it "feels" easier.  Perhaps because I get calls asking for face painting quotes more often, without having to go out there and set up a display.  Anyway, I see your point.  If all the shows I did were successful perhaps I would not feel this way.  Congrats on getting the business name and domain name secured!


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## Quilter99755 (Nov 17, 2021)

I feel for you as I have been in the same situation, but a less expensive route. Mine was a needlework shop in a corner of my house waaaay back when that was very popular. What i found was similar to others, I no longer had the time to work on my own projects, which was the fun part of the business and the very reason that I started the business. I have a few of my projects hanging on my walls now as proof that it happened. 

Fast forward into the 80's, I took up quilting with the same comments from others...start a business. But I held off simply because I enjoy cutting up big pieces of fabric into small ones, and then putting them back together into a big quilt. For some of us, for some reason, turning your hobby into a business is a joy breaker. I can't say at any point when that happens or why it happens, but the joy goes right out the window. 

I am now getting a little bit of it with my soaps...but I think my friends (and know my family) feel I am too old to start another business! So they just tell me how great they like my soaps and wish all hand made soaps were like mine. I let them throw a little money at me from time to time to help defray the cost...or buy me a plant, or something nice. 

I know I didn't stick with the business as long as some of you have...mine was more like three years or so...but I thin I was smart to listen to my inner self to keep my hobbies just the way they are, full of joy and satisfaction. I'll let others become the quilt artists, or soap artists and I'll keep making quilts and soaps with joy in my heart.


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## glendam (Nov 17, 2021)

@Cat&Oak the Square website that @Professor Bernardo mentioned is the same one I use.  They are the ones who can give you a free online store, not as fancy as a paid one, but it does for me for now (for the stamps, pull screens, etc.).  They also have a POS system (it is just their app) that I used to do my credit card transactions in that show with my phone.  However, I just learned they also have the option to record cash purchases, they do not collect fees on those, but it will allow you to checkout a cash sale and record it.  Anyway, I will be trying that out as my POS next year, should be faster than handwriting all those receipts!


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## Cat&Oak (Nov 17, 2021)

Quilter99755 said:


> I'll keep making quilts and soaps with joy in my heart.



Hey I like to make quilts too! One year I did a quilt for every family member for Christmas. It was fun! And come to think of it soapmaking hasn't been fun for a while. What will sell well? What will get the most views?
@glendam thanks for that I think I went with the most expensive everything thinking I would have a better chance at sales


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## Candybee (Nov 17, 2021)

I started my soap biz in 2005 so I have been at it for a number of years now. I can tell you that several times over these years I would get into a rut or burn out period that would last for weeks or months. It happens and its normal so don't beat yourself up about it. One of two things can happen during your time out. You may decide to quit altogether and do something else. It may be that after all this time you find it really wasn't your dream. Or, you may do what I do and find inspiration in changing things up. 

This last time out period for me I used to revamp my soap biz. I was board and felt I wanted out but for me what I really needed was a change. So I started a list of the things I really wanted and wanted to do with my soap biz. I realized what I really wanted to do and what I was actually doing were not the same. I had to sit down and write it on paper. 

Once I had it in writing and knew what I wanted, things just fell right into place. I was now recharged and incredibly excited about revamping my biz. I renamed it, got a new logo and branding along with new biz colors and decor. I had a new theme that I always wanted to do and I couldn't stop the avalanche of ideas for my new company. 

It's been almost a year now as I relaunched my "new" soap biz this year. My products were updated and everything was coordinated with my new theme, colors, logo and branding right down to every last little detail. I am still excited about it and now I feel like a kid again. I turned my work into playtime because I am in love with it. 

For me, that's what it is all about, finding my joy and love again. I did it through digging deep and self discovery. 

One of these days I may decide to move on and do something entirely new. But each time I went through a slump what pulled me out was change.


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## cmzaha (Nov 17, 2021)

Peachy Clean Soap said:


> @Cat&Oak
> I do want to sale at our local Farmers Market, but not sure If I gotta get a city license & a Tax ID? UGH.  In the US & globally times are uncertain in so many areas' I'm thinking maybe ppl would think twice about spending 6.00 for a bar of soap? just my thoughts I could be totally wrong?. So I set here in limbo enjoying my Soap Hobby.  Thank you Dear & everyone for sharing your soap business journey's so informative & in sight full.


In So Cal, some cities require city permits to sell at farmer markets and some do not, you have to check with each city you are going to sell in. The market managers will know if you need a city permit or not. I sold my soaps for $7 each and was going to raise to $8 right before covid hit and I retired. I had absolutely no issues selling min 5 oz bars for $7 ea. I holiday market return customers who purchased large amounts received a better deal. Every return customer received a goodie as did most new customers before leaving my booth. I still miss attending markets and socializing with customers and my vendor friends.


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## Ugeauxgirl (Nov 17, 2021)

It was very brave of you to try, and sounds like a good decision to step back.  I wrestled with possibly selling soap myself, but I think I just want to make soap how and when I feel like it.

Don't listen to naysayers.  My most satisfying accomplishments have all been doing things I was advised not to, for whatever reason.  How boring life would be if you never tried anything risky.  I bet your naysayers are afraid to try anything themselves!


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## lenarenee (Nov 17, 2021)

In case this comparison to your dad’s success still has a grip on you, let me remind you that your dad’s business was not handmade soap. And not during a time when there are hundreds of thousands of people selling basically the same thing.


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## Johnez (Nov 17, 2021)

Cat&Oak, you've far more courage than me. I spent 7 years collecting tools, ideas, and knowledge to start my own business. I built furniture, and my location would have been a goldmine for the type of stuff I created. I did not proceed, and I'll leave it there-this ain't about me. Don't beat yourself up, it's better to have tried. I have quite a few regrets, failure has never been one of them-not trying ranks number one. It sounds to me like shifting gears will give you some breathing room to assess your next move. Very smart. I wish you success in whatever path you take.


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## TheGecko (Nov 18, 2021)

glendam said:


> but it "feels" easier.



Exactly.


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## Quilter99755 (Nov 18, 2021)

Cat&Oak said:


> Hey I like to make quilts too! One year I did a quilt for every family member for Christmas. It was fun! And come to think of it soapmaking hasn't been fun for a while.


OMG you are a better person than me!  Although every one in my family has gotten something hand made from me at one point or another. That comes with living a long life though! LOL

I do hope that with all the different pieces of advice that you are getting here, that you can make a decision that is best for you and your family.  Everyone's situation is different, one size does not fit all!  Best of luck with whatever you decide.


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## Cat&Oak (Nov 18, 2021)

Quilter99755 said:


> OMG you are a better person than me!  Although every one in my family has gotten something hand made from me at one point or another. That comes with living a long life though! LOL
> 
> I do hope that with all the different pieces of advice that you are getting here, that you can make a decision that is best for you and your family.  Everyone's situation is different, one size does not fit all!  Best of luck with whatever you decide.


Thank you so much! The quilts I made were a very simple pattern but my husband's family cherishes them ❤


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## Kiti Williams (Nov 19, 2021)

Cat&Oak said:


> Thank you so much! The quilts I made were a very simple pattern but my husband's family cherishes them ❤



Lovely!  I am a fiber artist, so quilting is one of my ways of staying sane!  I have a small business doing custom free motion quilting, but both my State and the Feds bill it as a hobby.


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## Quilter99755 (Nov 19, 2021)

Cat&Oak said:


> Thank you so much! The quilts I made were a very simple pattern but my husband's family cherishes them ❤


Those are classic!  I love the colors.  Right up my alley...probably due to living in Alaska for 30 years, all or most of my quilts are bright colors.


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## Cat&Oak (Nov 19, 2021)

Quilter99755 said:


> Those are classic!  I love the colors.  Right up my alley...probably due to living in Alaska for 30 years, all or most of my quilts are bright colors.


Yes I agree bright colors make the world a happier place. Alaska? What a dream! All that wildlife and forest.


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## Quilter99755 (Nov 20, 2021)

Kiti Williams said:


> Lovely!  I am a fiber artist, so quilting is one of my ways of staying sane!  I have a small business doing custom free motion quilting, but both my State and the Feds bill it as a hobby.


For sure, quilting kept my sanity in Alaska. Twenty one of those years we lived without commercial electricity or running water, did almost all of my quilting on a treadle machine with a dog mushers' headlamp for extra light. We sort of consider the early years our "wilderness experience". As we aged we no longer played in the snow as much, so winters really got to us.

There are things I miss about Alaska but winter is not one of them. I can hardly tolerate the winters in Idaho, so know we made the right decision with moving.

I also do free motion quilting but only for my own projects, gifts or charity works. Just getting back in the groove after not having my sewing room available for 10 months. It's pure joy again!


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## Kiti Williams (Nov 20, 2021)

Quilter99755 said:


> For sure, quilting kept my sanity in Alaska. Twenty one of those years we lived without commercial electricity or running water, did almost all of my quilting on a treadle machine with a dog mushers' headlamp for extra light. We sort of consider the early years our "wilderness experience". As we aged we no longer played in the snow as much, so winters really got to us.
> 
> There are things I miss about Alaska but winter is not one of them. I can hardly tolerate the winters in Idaho, so know we made the right decision with moving.
> 
> I also do free motion quilting but only for my own projects, gifts or charity works. Just getting back in the groove after not having my sewing room available for 10 months. It's pure joy again!



I own a treadle sewing machine as well.  I love big bright colors in my quilts


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## AAShillito (Nov 29, 2021)

glendam said:


> @Cat&Oak the Square website that @Professor Bernardo mentioned is the same one I use.  They are the ones who can give you a free online store, not as fancy as a paid one, but it does for me for now (for the stamps, pull screens, etc.).  They also have a POS system (it is just their app) that I used to do my credit card transactions in that show with my phone.  However, I just learned they also have the option to record cash purchases, they do not collect fees on those, but it will allow you to checkout a cash sale and record it.  Anyway, I will be trying that out as my POS next year, should be faster than handwriting all those receipts!


I used a square reader for my craft bazaar  but everyone paid in cash and didn't ask for receipts. So I used it as an inventory tracker. It'll also make reports for you so you can use those for accounting. Just get it all ready a week before and practice with it incase someone wants to pay with a card


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## Misschief (Nov 30, 2021)

AAShillito said:


> I used a square reader for my craft bazaar  but everyone paid in cash and didn't ask for receipts. So I used it as an inventory tracker. It'll also make reports for you so you can use those for accounting. Just get it all ready a week before and practice with it incase someone wants to pay with a card


I love my Square!


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## Peachy Clean Soap (Nov 30, 2021)

cmzaha said:


> In So Cal, some cities require city permits to sell at farmer markets and some do not, you have to check with each city you are going to sell in. The market managers will know if you need a city permit or not. I sold my soaps for $7 each and was going to raise to $8 right before covid hit and I retired. I had absolutely no issues selling min 5 oz bars for $7 ea. I holiday market return customers who purchased large amounts received a better deal. Every return customer received a goodie as did most new customers before leaving my booth. I still miss attending markets and socializing with customers and my vendor friends.


Thank you Appreciate you taking the time to answer my question's. I'll check and see. Hugs


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## Vicki C (Dec 8, 2021)

One other consideration, I’m sorry if someone said this already, I read through the thread and didn’t see it - is to try to find one or two wholesale customers. I have a museum store I sell to, and this fall it was a struggle to keep up with their demand. Actually, this was how my business got off the ground. I charge less than I do at markets, but it’s pretty nice to just hand over some soap and get a check. I also have had a few commissions for wedding favors and for a friend who owns a massage studio. I had soap on Etsy briefly but with the museum store I couldn’t really scale up enough to keep soap on the site. So - perhaps there are ways to scale back, dabble, get paid for your efforts, and keep soapmaking a pleasure and not a stress inducer. I looked into the soap maker who charges for her expertise (I’m sorry I don’t know her name) and her services just were not a fit for me. I am selling at two small markets, one in my tiny town (just two winter events) and another small indoor farmer’s market. My sales are not huge but I do enjoy hearing people’s feedback, even if some of it is baffling to me.  And I did have one return customer who had purchased one bar the week before, and came back the next Saturday to rave about it and buy more soap for gifts. Really made my day.
I’m rambling - but I guess I would just advise finding what feels comfortable and brings you joy. There are a zillion soap makers out there - which is fine! Lots of people want soap!
☮❤


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## Cat&Oak (Dec 9, 2021)

Vicki C said:


> One other consideration, I’m sorry if someone said this already, I read through the thread and didn’t see it - is to try to find one or two wholesale customers. I have a museum store I sell to, and this fall it was a struggle to keep up with their demand. Actually, this was how my business got off the ground. I charge less than I do at markets, but it’s pretty nice to just hand over some soap and get a check. I also have had a few commissions for wedding favors and for a friend who owns a massage studio. I had soap on Etsy briefly but with the museum store I couldn’t really scale up enough to keep soap on the site. So - perhaps there are ways to scale back, dabble, get paid for your efforts, and keep soapmaking a pleasure and not a stress inducer. I looked into the soap maker who charges for her expertise (I’m sorry I don’t know her name) and her services just were not a fit for me. I am selling at two small markets, one in my tiny town (just two winter events) and another small indoor farmer’s market. My sales are not huge but I do enjoy hearing people’s feedback, even if some of it is baffling to me.  And I did have one return customer who had purchased one bar the week before, and came back the next Saturday to rave about it and buy more soap for gifts. Really made my day.
> I’m rambling - but I guess I would just advise finding what feels comfortable and brings you joy. There are a zillion soap makers out there - which is fine! Lots of people want soap!
> ☮❤


Thank you Vicki I appreciate you sharing your experience and point of view. All great ideas while I step back. Failure isn't a bad thing contrary to what society says. It's a chance to learn ❤


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## The_Phoenix (Dec 14, 2021)

I’ve given some thought to closing my business. Most of my business comes from website sales, which is not as robust this holiday season as it was last year. The biggest roadblock to increasing sales is people’s reliance on liquid body wash.

I stopped posting on IG because I found that the bulk of my followers were other soap makers. I get a lot more traction on my personal and business Facebook page. But I’m increasingly less and less interested in spend more time than necessary on social media in general. 

I, too, expanded my product line. It helped some but not enough to motivate me to include more products. But really, at the end of the day, it comes down to money.

I don’t do markets. I work full time and value my weekends. Taking even more time away from my family holds zero appeal to me. And the cost of setting up at a market is ridiculous. And the markets here are saturated. I don’t sell “all natural” or “vegan” or “palm free.”

I did have a wholesale client but she’s going through a divorce and may be closing her hair salon.

I’m giving it one more year. There is a local brewery that I’ve been meaning to approach to see if they have an interest in beer soap.

I wouldn’t feel to terrible about shutting your doors as a business running ANY small business is a challenge. Give yourself credit for trying and believing in yourself and your product. Taking risks is part of our individual journey.


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## Cat&Oak (Dec 14, 2021)

The_Phoenix said:


> I’ve given some thought to closing
> 
> Taking risks is part of our individual journey.



Thank you @The_Phoenix for taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences. I found the same thing with IG and the thought of doing markets with the added expenses was unappealing as well. I actually feel better and more self confident from shutting it down. What a relief! It just wasn't for me.


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## MelissaG (Dec 15, 2021)

I've been loving it. And my sales and popularity are increasing. If it isn't for you anymore, you will know it's time.


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## Cat&Oak (Dec 15, 2021)

MelissaG said:


> I've been loving it. And my sales and popularity are increasing. If it isn't for you anymore, you will know it's time.


I'm glad your business is doing well but putting a little plug about how great your business is and how popular you are in a thread where I chose to close mine down is a little tacky.


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## MelissaG (Dec 15, 2021)

Cat&Oak said:


> I'm glad your business is doing well but putting a little plug about how great your business is and how popular you are in a thread where I chose to close mine down is a little tacky.


I didn't. I was just saying that not everyone is the same. You chose to close yours. It's up to you. Others are finding having their own business good for them. But you are welcome to take offense if you choose to do so.


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## Hope Ann (Dec 16, 2021)

MelissaG said:


> I didn't. I was just saying that not everyone is the same. You chose to close yours. It's up to you. Others are finding having their own business good for them. But you are welcome to take offense if you choose to do so.



You may not have intended it that way, but it read badly.  

Hope


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