# Absolute beginner



## Jalz (Aug 18, 2019)

Hello

I have tried to make my first melt and pour soap. 
1. Shea butter base with dried lavender - the soap is lovely but after using it in the shower, the lavender flowers seem to have left brown stains. Is that normal? 
Do we use preservatives in a melt and pour soap?

2. Honey and oatmeal - I mixed oatmeal in a clear base and honey on top. However, the honey did not stick to the soap base. How can I get the honey to stick on and show as a separate layer?


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## dibbles (Aug 18, 2019)

It is normal for lavender buds to turn brown in soap. I can't answer your question about honey, but for clarification did you pour honey (not in a soap base) on top of the soap, or was it honey mixed into soap or a honey M&P base? 

You don't need to add a preservative.


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## Jalz (Aug 18, 2019)

dibbles said:


> It is normal for lavender buds to turn brown in soap. I can't answer your question about honey, but for clarification did you pour honey (not in a soap base) on top of the soap, or was it honey mixed into soap or a honey M&P base?
> 
> You don't need to add a preservative.



Thanks for your response. I poured the honey into the mould and then soap base on top


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## dibbles (Aug 18, 2019)

Jalz said:


> Thanks for your response. I poured the honey into the mould and then soap base on top


I think that is probably the problem. Here is a link to a beautiful soap @IrishLass made. This is CP, but has a M&P drizzle added to the finished soap. https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/my-experimental-honey-beeswax-soap.55689/ I'd try something like that.


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## cmzaha (Aug 18, 2019)

Honey will absolutely not stick to m&p. You can purchase a honey m&p base from Brambleberry which is a SFIC brand. It is a lovely honey soap base.  https://www.brambleberry.com/shop-b...ic-honey-melt-and-pour-soap-base/V000758.html You can use it to pour on top like IL did with her honey soaps.


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## bookreader451 (Aug 19, 2019)

Jalz said:


> Hello
> 
> I have tried to make my first melt and pour soap.
> 1. Shea butter base with dried lavender - the soap is lovely but after using it in the shower, the lavender flowers seem to have left brown stains. Is that normal?
> ...


You can mix up to 1tsp of honey into you base.


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## Chris_S (Aug 19, 2019)

bookreader451 said:


> You can mix up to 1tsp of honey into you base.



Wouldnt that quantity depend on how much m&p soap base you are using and making?


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## Rox (Aug 19, 2019)

Hi, I did my first melt and pour soap and not very impressed. I would like to start making soap with the full process. Could it be made in my cake room or I should only do it in a kitchen?
Thanks


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## Chris_S (Aug 20, 2019)

Rox said:


> Hi, I did my first melt and pour soap and not very impressed. I would like to start making soap with the full process. Could it be made in my cake room or I should only do it in a kitchen?
> Thanks



You can make CP soap in pretty much any room you like I make mine in my front spare bedroom on an old desk just make sure you protect the surfaces ect


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## Rox (Aug 20, 2019)

Chris_S said:


> You can make CP soap in pretty much any room you like I make mine in my front spare bedroom on an old desk just make sure you protect the surfaces ect



Thanks Chris, why do you say protect the surface? If I make it on a stainless steel table do I have to protect it too? Can I use same table I make my cakes on or it will stay on the table?


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## Chris_S (Aug 20, 2019)

Rox said:


> Thanks Chris, why do you say protect the surface? If I make it on a stainless steel table do I have to protect it too? Can I use same table I make my cakes on or it will stay on the table?



I said protect the surface because I dont know what it's made of how new it is ect if it's a fancy table defo protect if it's something that doesnt matter if it gets the surface damaged that's fine! If your wanting to make cakes there too would defon suggest to put something over the work surface! Cp soap while making it is highly corrosive and not the sort of thing you would want to accidentally transfer into a cake mixture so just best avoiding that being a risk! I use my old desk so dont care because all I use it for is crafting so melts ect and soaps! Iv never used a metal surface to make soaps on so not certain but i would just put an old table cloth on to be sure!


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## Rox (Aug 20, 2019)

Chris_S said:


> I said protect the surface because I dont know what it's made of how new it is ect if it's a fancy table defo protect if it's something that doesnt matter if it gets the surface damaged that's fine! If your wanting to make cakes there too would defon suggest to put something over the work surface! Cp soap while making it is highly corrosive and not the sort of thing you would want to accidentally transfer into a cake mixture so just best avoiding that being a risk! I use my old desk so dont care because all I use it for is crafting so melts ect and soaps! Iv never used a metal surface to make soaps on so not certain but i would just put an old table cloth on to be sure!



Thanks a lot Chris for your help, can’t wait to try it. Have you tried the hot process? Did you like it? I know that you can use the soap 24 h after making it with that process, so seems interesting. But read that the soap bars are not as nice then with the CP.


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## Arimara (Aug 20, 2019)

Rox said:


> Thanks a lot Chris for your help, can’t wait to try it. Have you tried the hot process? Did you like it?* I know that you can use the soap 24 h after making it with that process, so seems interesting. But read that the soap bars are not as nice then with the CP.[*/QUOTE]
> 
> Unless You would like to know what it's like to use an immature soap, It's HIGHLY advised that you don't use HP soap after 24 hours of making it. For starters, that soap is not cured so it will not have most of the characteristics of using a handcrafted soap that is fully cured. HP soaps can also take a longer time to cure since you generally use more water but after a good 12 weeks, that soap might be somewhere between awesome and nice.
> 
> ...


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## Nanette (Aug 20, 2019)

Chris_S said:


> Wouldnt that quantity depend on how much m&p soap base you are using and making?


never mind, we are already moving to cp!


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## Rox (Aug 20, 2019)

So if I understand you correctly, the CP is better and cures faster than the HP? How come the book I read was saying that the HP soap was ready faster, as soon as the 24h after making it?  I’m really mixed on witch one is better to do  and faster to use. Thanks for your help, I’m tying to know as much as possible before starting making soap.


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## cmzaha (Aug 20, 2019)

Rox said:


> So if I understand you correctly, the CP is better and cures faster than the HP? How come the book I read was saying that the HP soap was ready faster, as soon as the 24h after making it?  I’m really mixed on witch one is better to do and faster to use. Thanks for your help, I’m tying to know as much as possible before starting making soap.


While HP is ready as far as saponification goes it is not at it's best until cured. The reason we say it can take longer to cure is the higher water/liquid used in hp. CP poured at a very light trace and not allowed to gel can take up to 72 hrs to complete saponification to finish and no zap. CP will still take at least 4 weeks to cure. The longer the cure the better the lather, a slight drop in ph, and better longevity of your soap.  You can read more about curing here:  https://classicbells.com/soap/cure.asp


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## Rox (Aug 20, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> While HP is ready as far as saponification goes it is not at it's best until cured. The reason we say it can take longer to cure is the higher water/liquid used in hp. CP poured at a very light trace and not allowed to gel can take up to 72 hrs to complete saponification to finish and no zap. CP will still take at least 4 weeks to cure. The longer the cure the better the lather, a slight drop in ph, and better longevity of your soap.  You can read more about curing here:  https://classicbells.com/soap/cure.asp


Thank you very much for answering ALL my questions, like I said I want to know as much as possible before starting to make sure I don’t make big mistakes. I already read the book “Natural soapmaking book for beginners” by Kelly Cable and ordered 3 more from Chapters that I’m waiting for. Your help is really appreciated.


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## Chris_S (Aug 20, 2019)

Nanette said:


> never mind, we are already moving to cp!



It was relevant when I asked the question lol

Cmzaha and arinara have answered probably better than I could have explained but essentially that's what I would of said!


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## Arimara (Aug 20, 2019)

Don't be discouraged from HP soaps. It may take a little longer to cure but there are times when it is extremely handy to have that technique down, especially when (if) you find a problematic soap-friendly scent (any FO that can cause really fast acceleration, for example) that you want to incorporate into a batch. You can also whip your HP soap so they can float (rubber ducky soapies). So just keep it as a soapy adventure.


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## Chris_S (Aug 21, 2019)

Arimara said:


> Don't be discouraged from HP soaps. It may take a little longer to cure but there are times when it is extremely handy to have that technique down, especially when (if) you find a problematic soap-friendly scent (any FO that can cause really fast acceleration, for example) that you want to incorporate into a batch. You can also whip your HP soap so they can float (rubber ducky soapies). So just keep it as a soapy adventure.



I didnt know this about the floating soap. Or that it's easier to deal with naughty fo than with cp soap I have some of those so might try hp soap at some point!

As an example of people misunderstanding about cure time ect earlier this year I went to a beekeeping meeting because there was a woman who sold beeswax soaps and other cosmetics doing a talk I almost screamed at her what a stupid person she is when she said her scientist friend knows a way so they dont have to sit on a shelf ect for weeks ie curing! So she basically sells her soaps and they could of been made a day or less ago  probably not illegal but if someone gets a bad bar of soap from her they will likely tar all homemade soaps are terrible and lose me a sale, so at that point I went from willing to think about trying her stuff to swearing never to attend another meeting with her doing a talk and selling her stuff because I know I'll say something to her and get myself in trouble with the club because no doubt they will think she has far more knowledge than I do  she definatly does about beekeeping yes but soap I'm not so sure she knows as much as shes making out she does!


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## Arimara (Aug 21, 2019)

Chris_S said:


> I didnt know this about the floating soap. Or that it's easier to deal with naughty fo than with cp soap I have some of those so might try hp soap at some point!
> 
> As an example of people misunderstanding about cure time ect earlier this year I went to a beekeeping meeting because there was a woman who sold beeswax soaps and other cosmetics doing a talk I almost screamed at her what a stupid person she is when she said her scientist friend knows a way so they dont have to sit on a shelf ect for weeks ie curing! So she basically sells her soaps and they could of been made a day or less ago  probably not illegal but if someone gets a bad bar of soap from her they will likely tar all homemade soaps are terrible and lose me a sale, so at that point I went from willing to think about trying her stuff to swearing never to attend another meeting with her doing a talk and selling her stuff because I know I'll say something to her and get myself in trouble with the club because no doubt they will think she has far more knowledge than I do  s_he definatly does about beekeeping yes but soap I'm not so sure she knows as much as shes making out she does![_/QUOTE]
> 
> She clearly doesn't. That is sad. Stick to your guns and keep learning your soaps, invest in the Scientific Soapmaking text book, if you can (it may help you by giving you a source to dispel soap myths), and have fun.


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## Rox (Aug 21, 2019)

I just watched videos on YouTube on CP, some heat up the oils on stove, mix the lye and water and then put lye in oils on the stove. I also saw 2 videos that they had mixed the lye and the water the day before, had melted the coconut oil in microwave and were just mixing everything on the counter without heat, seemed easier and faster that way.. what do you think?
Thanks for the help!


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## Nanette (Aug 21, 2019)

A LOT of folks here soap at room temperature...they masterbatch their lye and oils for convenience . You dont have to wait hours for your lye solution or oils to cool down.


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## Nanette (Aug 21, 2019)




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## Chris_S (Aug 21, 2019)

Rox said:


> I just watched videos on YouTube on CP, some heat up the oils on stove, mix the lye and water and then put lye in oils on the stove. I also saw 2 videos that they had mixed the lye and the water the day before, had melted the coconut oil in microwave and were just mixing everything on the counter without heat, seemed easier and faster that way.. what do you think?
> Thanks for the help!



I recently invested in a soup kettle which are an amazing contraption and make my life so much easier with regards to melting oils and I use it for making candles and melts too! It can sit in there till the lye gets to the same temp then combined inside a bucket or something similar but I just heated the oils or butter in the microwave before I got the soup kettle! It's great for how I make my cp soap it just works well for me and if I need to cool it I can stick it in a bucket of cold water to match with the lye solution!


Yeah she really doesnt and I dont think she cared for me pointing out there will be things to do to make things comply when IF we ever leave the EU because our rules are all regulated ect by the EU! From what I recall she said she hoped she was small enough just to sneak under radar all cash sales strangely too so probably on fiddle n all! I dont know how long shes been in business but I get the feeling she isnt the sort to make hundreds of bars to test different recipes like iv spent over a year doing and just milks the beeswax label appeal but in reality it's probably about 2.5% of the entire recipe cant imagine her even having the knowledge to know what to change ect someone else probably makes the soaps n she just sells them as a business partnership!


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## Rox (Aug 21, 2019)

Nanette said:


> A LOT of folks here soap at room temperature...they masterbatch their lye and oils for convenience . You dont have to wait hours for your lye solution or oils to cool down.[/QUOTE
> Thanks alot for answering my questions. can you dilute a big bottle of lye to keep on the self so when you need it, its already done?  To mixe it ahead and do your mixing  cold seems easier and faster. Im gonna.make my fist bach soon so any advice of tips for me?
> Thanks


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## bookreader451 (Aug 21, 2019)

Chris_S said:


> Wouldnt that quantity depend on how much m&p soap base you are using and making?


Yes I meant per pound.  Sorry about that


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## earlene (Aug 21, 2019)

Rox said:


> Nanette said:
> 
> 
> > A LOT of folks here soap at room temperature...they masterbatch their lye and oils for convenience . You dont have to wait hours for your lye solution or oils to cool down.
> ...



When quoting, your question will be more noticeable and more likely to get answered if you add it *below *the quote box (after the End Quote code that looks like [forward slash QUOTE].  I usually skip quotes without any added comments below the quote because it's too hard to figure out who said what.  But in this case, I did read it and think this is you and not Nanette:Thanks alot for answering my questions. can you dilute a big bottle of lye to keep on the self so when you need it, its already done? To mixe it ahead and do your mixing cold seems easier and faster. Im gonna.make my fist bach soon so any advice of tips for me?

Yes, that is called Master Batching lye.  Normally many who do masterbatch lye, use at 1:1 mix of NaOH to water (because that's the minimum amount of water to dissolve the same amount of NaOH), which is called a 50% lye concentration.  Then when making the soap, some additional liquid has to be added to bring the lye concentration to the desired amount.  (Some lye calculators will do that for you, but the math is pretty easy.) 

 BUT, you can do your masterbatch lye solution in any concentration you prefer.  Some folks almost always make soap with a [33% Lye].  (Incidentally, the brackets around that is a chemistry shorthand I learned in college and always use in my notes.)  When they go to make soap, they simply use the masterbatched lye without having to do any further calculations for added water.


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## Nanette (Aug 21, 2019)

Thank you Earlene! I dont masterbatch lye so I couldnt figure out how to answer ...so now I know. Well, I would have answered I dont know.


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