# Giving up



## Soulboy1973 (Sep 28, 2019)

Sad to say I've made my last batch of CP soap. I just cannot get it how I'd like it to be. I always do something wrong. The batches are only for me so it is useable but it just infuriates me I can't get it right. I watch Ophelia Soapery with all the amazing colours on YouTube and He/She makes it look oh so easy, it isn't though and He/She has obviously put a lot of work  into making the recipe flawless. I'm not selling soap so every batch is expensive.
Today I made a batch to a trusted recipe, mixed in the Mica, all going well, mixed in the FO, all going well, I had only hand mixed the batter up until then, I got the Stick blender in it for only enough to reach light trace, it accellerated slightly, nothing like other oils have, by the time I started to pour the colours into the base it had started firming up so I lost any opportunity to get my swirls mixed again. I'm probably stick blending a tad too long, it seems to go from liquid to stodge in the blink of an eye. 
Gutted isn't the word. That's it I'm done.


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## Marilyn Norgart (Sep 28, 2019)

it is hard to have it not turn out how you wanted--sorry.  did you read the reviews on the FO you used?  How long have you been making soap for?  How many colors are you trying to use?  I know for myself when I first started I made mistakes--it takes time to figure it out.  I was really slow when mixing in the colors.  I think if you haven't been making soap for very long you maybe are trying to do too much??
I would say try again but if you are finding it too expensive maybe it isn't the right hobby for you.  Maybe you need to try using different oils--I use 3 oils that are cheaper to buy and I like how it turns out.  What oils are you using??


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 28, 2019)

Hi Marilyn,
I started using Olive and Coconut which made a good useable soap. The last two I have used Olive,Coconut, Palm and Castor. Palm is the expensive part. for a batch 16oz of coco,palm,oilive and 2 oz Castor, plus mica's, Fragrance and lye it adds up. I think the only problem I have is too much stick blending, to get good swirls of colour the batter has to be liquid, any thickness doesn't allow the colours to blend yet stay individual and recognisable. If it thickens there isn't time and you end up with a homogonised mess, which I have and it's disappointing. I think just a quick 3-4 second blast is all that is needed when using this method, not trying to achieve a trace at all, just fully blended. That's where I go wrong. On a personal level for my own consumption I have around 4 years of soap now. No point making more, you can't sell it if it isn't good enough to sell, so to spend more is just a waste of good money.


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## BattleGnome (Sep 28, 2019)

Is your only issue getting pretty soaps/design issues? If that’s the case you have a great base for your learning. You’ve come a long way, don’t sell yourself short.

One thing I’ve found is that the combination of coconut oil and Shea butter gives me a non-Newtonian batter. If it let it sit it looks likes it’s almost solid but give it a good mix with a spoon and it loosens up again for swirling. I don’t use palm or castor, but you could be getting a similar effect. It’s frustrating but once I realized where the problem was I’ve learned to adapt. If I want to swirl and make a super pretty soap I use a high olive oil recipe or skip the Shea (my most expensive ingredient). 

Another idea is to play with the idea of emulsion, don’t get to trace. See how it behaves then


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## penelopejane (Sep 28, 2019)

See the video in this link for all you need to know about emulsion: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/stickblending-to-emulsion.60618/

Give away your soap for Christmas and make some more! 
One of my family’s favourite soaps is honey and oatmeal. No colour. Mix and pour - easy.


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## bookreader451 (Sep 28, 2019)

Don’t give up yet!    When I started making soap I thought I wanted it to be fancy like all the youtube soapers.  Then I found out I like the rustic hot process bars I make better.   They are simple, not a lot of fancy stuff but for me they are really nice usable soap.  I am able to add my superfat at the end and since shea is my fave I always use that but for the batch size it is always less than 2oz.  The purple pic is the HP

I did do a couple of fancy CP soaps too but I used a recipe I played around with on soapcalc that was 40% hard oils and 60% soft oils.  The pic is a heavy handed drop swirl with too much swirled batter. 

I also learned I stink at hanger swirls lol.

I keep trying recipes and learning as I go.  I do understand the cost as I have spent a lot on this adventure but I will have a clean family and friends and who think anything I make is nice.


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## shunt2011 (Sep 28, 2019)

Soapmakimg isn’t a cheap hobby. However, it sounds like you are going into this with the purpose of selling.  I made soap for  a year and a half before I even began to think a lot selling and even then when I look back my soaps were nowhere near as nice as the year are now. I spent hundreds and hundreds just enjoying the process with no intention of selling. 

Maybe take a break and then give it another try if it’s too costly for you to make and share until you get the hang of it.  It took many recipes and tries until I found something I could play with and had time to color and do some designs. 

Don’t give up.  You’ll get it eventually.


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 28, 2019)

shunt2011 said:


> Soapmakimg isn’t a cheap hobby. However, it sounds like you are going into this with the purpose of selling.  I made soap for  a year and a half before I even began to think a lot selling and even then when I look back my soaps were nowhere near as nice as the year are now. I spent hundreds and hundreds just enjoying the process with no intention of selling.
> 
> Maybe take a break and then give it another try if it’s too costly for you to make and share until you get the hang of it.  It took many recipes and tries until I found something I could play with and had time to color and do some designs.
> 
> Don’t give up.  You’ll get it eventually.


Hi, 
I think I explained I only soap for myself, I am one of those people who enjoys watching someone make something then having a good go myself. Sometimes it works sometimes not. I have not yet ended up without a nice useable soap, it's the colours and fragrance I suck at. Something is going wrong between the mica and FO stages. I think I am stick blending for too long.  My mind plays tricks on me. I tell myself it is mixed enough, then bloody give it a little more which tips the batter over the edge making it too thick for pretty colour swirls.


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## lsg (Sep 28, 2019)

Don't give up.  Experiment with small batches (1 lb).  Get a small loaf mold and practice your swirls.  Liquid oils take usually take longer to trace than hard oils/butters.  Maybe use more olive and less palm and coconut.


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 28, 2019)

Does anyone have a small batch recipe please using just Olive and Coconut please?


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## Cellador (Sep 28, 2019)

In my opinion, design is THE most difficult part of soaping. It is the culmination of all the steps throughout the soaping process- the recipe, temperature, FO, color choices, trace, etc. It all feeds into a design and how well it "succeeds." You have to take the time to learn how all of this plays into your vision, and you have to be prepared to handle any surprises.
That being said, I'm sure your soaps are beautiful. Part of soaping is artistic and much like other art, your soap designs may never look like someone else's. I know that I may never achieve the flawless designs others seem to achieve effortlessly,  but maybe that's for the better. Maybe it's just not my style. Or maybe it's just going to take years and years and years of hard work and effort....
Lastly, I think a person who doesn't make soap isn't going to judge a soap the same way another soapmaker would. I have made some pretty terrible and ugly soaps...and my friends and family always seem delighted with it. They usually don't give a second thought to how it looks- they are usually more concerned with the scent, really. I have pulled off some pretty nice looking designs (I think), and I usually feel like most people don't appreciate the difficulty of a particular swirl or technique. But, why would they? It's my hobby and passion, not theirs.
So, do it for yourself.
Soap if it makes you happy and you enjoy the process. If it's casusing too much frustration, maybe take a break. You will come back to it if you are meant to.
(Sorry this is so long. *hugs*)


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## Mobjack Bay (Sep 28, 2019)

I haven’t made recipe a that’s just OO and CO, but @szaza may have, so maybe will jump in here.  That much OO should slow trace as long as you’re not using pomace.

I have a couple of base recipes that are very swirl friendly when I mix them at room temp.  This one is very simple and close to what you’re thinking about:

high oleic (OO, or other) 60%
CO 20%
PO 20%

33% lye concentration

The recipe was inspired by one Holly of Kapia Mera uses (you can find her on YouTube).  This is not a recipe that wants to firm up quickly, but the soap is nice after a few months and it’s easy to vary oils within the high oleic fraction, based on what you have or like, with little change in behavior of the batter.  If you decide you want to add a little castor oil (3-5%), subtract the percentage from the high oleic oil. I’ve made the recipe with and without castor oil with no problems.  I have also been adding sodium lactate because I have it, but a little salt would also help to produce a harder bar more quickly.


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## djk17 (Sep 28, 2019)

I have mostly lost interest in design, except to clap and coo “oooohhhhh pretty!” at other people’s soap. 
At the moment (e.g. the past 5 years) I have gone back to my original idea for making soap—calming down my special rainbow unicorn annoying skin. 
Turns out that lots of other people in my world seem to want that too. 
I typically give my soap away as gifts and over the years I have built up a small and loyal following who now order from me. (Not my end game—at this point it’s simply my hobby)
Periodically I go wild and play with colourants, scents and swirls but I have come to recognise that I want something else from my soap. 
I react to SLS and EDTA, and a few essential oils (uh-huh. Special annoying snowflake skin) and while the creative side of soapmaking is exciting, it’s only one part of soapmaking. 

My point: maybe go back to the beginning and make a few tried and true simple recipes again to regain the pleasure of it all.


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 28, 2019)

I'll unmould my soap tomorrow, cut it and see what I have, I have Olive , Coconut, Palm and Castor still in for another batch. How emulsified does the batter have to be to set? Can I stick blend the full batch to just emulsify but not to tracemix then use a hand whisk to blend in the mica's and Essential oils?


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## djk17 (Sep 28, 2019)

I very often stickblend to emulsification then do a few quick pulses and stirs to incorporate e.o. and other additives. 
Make sure you are indeed getting to emulsification though.


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## Arimara (Sep 28, 2019)

Have you posted the recipes you have been using anywhere?


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## Mobjack Bay (Sep 28, 2019)

Wow, this is a long post...

Using the recipe I shared above, I would aim for stickblending in short pulses until I’m sure I have a good stable emulsion or very light trace.  I judge that I’m at that stage when a dribble of batter almost wants to sit on the surface of the batter.  It’s okay to pulse for a few seconds then stir by hand to get a feel for what the batter is doing. Some recipes can handle a lot of stick blending and some can’t.  If you can be patient, letting the batter sit undisturbed for a minute or more after the initial stick blending will give you useful info.  For example, is it staying fully mixed/not separating?  Is it getting thicker?  If it’s not fully mixed, you can SB, or, better yet, hand mix a little more. 

Many of the experienced soap makers on Youtube are using very thin batter and I personally think that stage can be very tricky for beginners.  It was for me!  The trace level of the batter is super important and it’s much better, IMHO and after plenty of fails, to bring the batter to a stable emulsion slowly so you don’t overshoot with too much SBing.

Having multiple plans can also be helpful.  If you get the batter to the exact trace level you want you can make the swirl you were planning on, but have a plan B in case it gets thicker than you intended.  You can make nice swirls in the pot (ITP) or spoon swirls in the mold even if the soap is getting close to medium trace, while thin line pours are going to require really thin batter. I’m less experienced with hanger swirls, but I think you need the batter at light trace for some line definition.  If the batter goes to a heavy trace for some reason, which it shouldn’t with the recipe I shared made at RT, spoon plop it in the mold in a nice pattern and bang it down like crazy. You can end up with pretty soap across all of the trace levels, with the possible exclusion of “soap on a stick” which will still get you nice soap if the recipe is a good one.  

One last thing is to stay away from problematic FOs.  You want one that does not accelerate or even one that decelerates trace slightly.  Mixing the FO into the oils is a fine strategy if you know the FO is well behaved. I add micas as powder after I portion the batter and I sometimes add FO at that point, especially if I know it might speed things up.  I usually hand stir the micas into the batter, but you need to keep checking to make sure that it’s thoroughly incorporated/no clumps.  If I’m adding the FO to a portion of batter, I do the same, and hand mixing very thoroughly is key.


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## shunt2011 (Sep 28, 2019)

You can blend just to emulsion. I use short bursts and stir in between just until there is no visible oil on top. It’s still very fluid.


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 28, 2019)

Arimara said:


> Have you posted the recipes you have been using anywhere?


No not yet, It came from Brambleberry and is their basic lathering soap.


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## Karmic (Sep 28, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> Today I made a batch to a trusted recipe, mixed in the Mica, all going well, mixed in the FO, all going well, I had only hand mixed the batter up until then, I got the Stick blender in it for only enough to reach light trace,



I'm only three batches made and three months of studying into this hobby myself, so feel free to take my advice with a grain of salt, but I'm curious why you're adding everything before getting to trace instead of after? Unless I'm reading that wrong then forgive me. 

I'm always afraid I'm going to end up with soap on a stick after I put in my fragrance oils so that's the last thing I put in. And I try to aim for light trace before adding the micas. My first batch went to trace extremely quickly and was almost pudding when I finally went to put it into the mold so I couldn't really try anything interesting with it, but it's made me more careful since and more mindful of what the batter is doing. Now I really only use the stick to light trace and then when I add my colors or FO it's hand mixing with a plastic whisk or my silicone spatula only. It takes a little longer to make sure everything is incorporated but I think I'm getting a better feel of what's going on in the bowl and it hasn't run away from me again. 

To be fair, I also gave myself training wheels so to speak. I got two 8 lbs jugs of preblended oils from NS when they were selling the "Royalty Soaps" blend, so I'm not having to mix and measure oils before I can start each batch. I figured it would be easier and cheaper for me to do that and get a hang of things before trying to play around with different oils, and that way if I decided that I didn't want to keep doing this then I wouldn't end up with random amounts of oils I'd never use for anything left over. If you're having trouble with recipes maybe you could switch to a pre-made blend and try that till you get things going more the way you want? I know you probably don't want to spend more money and buy more oils at this point but it might be a consideration.


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## Deborah Long (Sep 28, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> Can I stick blend the full batch to just emulsify but not to tracemix then use a hand whisk to blend in the mica's and Essential oils?



The short answer here is YES!  And I personally would recommend that!  I usually add my EO/FO at the very last bit because that is mostly the reason things go wonky.  As long as your batter has emulsified - you're good to go!


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## IrishLass (Sep 28, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> Does anyone have a small batch recipe please using just Olive and Coconut please?



Assuming that this question is in response to lsg's recommendation to stick to making only 1 lb batches until you get the hang of things (which I very highly second), you can very easily resize any soap recipe you desire to however big or small you'd like it to be by using *SoapCalc*.

I also highly second watching the video in the link that Penelope gave you in post #5 of this thread. That will give you a very good visual of when is a good time to stop stickblending.

Don't give up so soon! Swirling can take a fair bit of trial-and-error practice before one gets the hang of it. You're just barely starting out.....you need to give yourself permission to be more patient with yourself. Take it from someone who also sucked at swirling at first.....you'll definitely get there if you don't give up trying. 


IrishLass


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## TheGecko (Sep 29, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> I'll unmould my soap tomorrow, cut it and see what I have, I have Olive , Coconut, Palm and Castor still in for another batch. How emulsified does the batter have to be to set? Can I stick blend the full batch to just emulsify but not to tracemix then use a hand whisk to blend in the mica's and Essential oils?



Of course.  Folks have been making soap for thousands of years without stick blenders, it just takes a little longer.

I currently make one and two pound batches and it doesn’t take much stick blending to go from liquid to pudding, so I’m using my whisk more.  I also freeze my distilled water into ice cubes; it eliminates fumes and seems to slow down trace.  I soap at around 70F.  I whisk my lye solution into my oils and then use my stick blender to give it a couple of 2-3 second bursts and I’m at emulsification.

I use 10% Cocoa Butter, 10% Shea Butter, 20% Palm Oil, 20% Coconut Oil (76 deg), 35% Olive Oil and 5% Castor Oil.  30% Lye Concentration, 5% Super Fat.  I also add 1 tea Kaolin Clay and 1 tea Sodium Lactate.  Runs around $4.70USD for a 1lb batch which is pretty good since I’m not buying in ‘bulk’ yet. 

Adding a FO/EO can almost double the cost which is why I recommend starting with a smaller batch, no fragrance and a simple ITP swirl; you can either swirl as you pour, or pour at 2 to 4 spots and do a single stir with your spatula.  I then pour from one end of the mold to the other, scrape my bowl, tamp down my mold and then take a chopstick and swirl the top.  If I want a little more texture with my top swirl, I’ll let it sit for 5 to 10 minutes while I clean up.

If you like the swirl, then next time use a well-behaved fragrance, if you don’t like it, try a different swirl.  Or try a different color.  When you feel confident, go to two colors *without* fragrance.  When you get the swirl you like, again pick a well-behaved fragrance.


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 29, 2019)

Karmic said:


> I'm only three batches made and three months of studying into this hobby myself, so feel free to take my advice with a grain of salt, but I'm curious why you're adding everything before getting to trace instead of after? Unless I'm reading that wrong then forgive me.
> 
> I'm always afraid I'm going to end up with soap on a stick after I put in my fragrance oils so that's the last thing I put in. And I try to aim for light trace before adding the micas. My first batch went to trace extremely quickly and was almost pudding when I finally went to put it into the mold so I couldn't really try anything interesting with it, but it's made me more careful since and more mindful of what the batter is doing. Now I really only use the stick to light trace and then when I add my colors or FO it's hand mixing with a plastic whisk or my silicone spatula only. It takes a little longer to make sure everything is incorporated but I think I'm getting a better feel of what's going on in the bowl and it hasn't run away from me again.
> 
> To be fair, I also gave myself training wheels so to speak. I got two 8 lbs jugs of preblended oils from NS when they were selling the "Royalty Soaps" blend, so I'm not having to mix and measure oils before I can start each batch. I figured it would be easier and cheaper for me to do that and get a hang of things before trying to play around with different oils, and that way if I decided that I didn't want to keep doing this then I wouldn't end up with random amounts of oils I'd never use for anything left over. If you're having trouble with recipes maybe you could switch to a pre-made blend and try that till you get things going more the way you want? I know you probably don't want to spend more money and buy more oils at this point but it might be a consideration.


I add the lye to the oil mix and then stick blend to emulsion, not trace, I then add mica to the batter I wish to colour, I then mix this by hand, once the mica is in I then mix in the FO this is the last to go in, just in case it seizes the soap, it then gets a mix with the stick blender to achieve trace. If I was at trace when I started putting in the Mica and FO if it does seize I have zero weorking time. That is the theory, in reality it doesn't always work that way and if I over mix slightly I've lot the liquidity I need to achieve the Hanger swirls I'm after. If you go to Youtube and look for Ophelias Soapery and watch the video's you will see what I'm trying to achieve. what doesn't help of course is I do not know the base mix that is being used, It could be just Olive and Coco oil which takes much longer to trace. Hope this helps you understand whare I am.


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## szaza (Sep 29, 2019)

Oh my, that sounds like a frustrating problem.. you're at emulsion, everything goes fine, but just as you want to give it a tad more to reach trace you go too far and you have pudding.. It happened to me too! How about instead of stick blending to trace, just hand stir a bit more? It's easier to dose the stirring that way. Also, why don't you try to do a swirl while your batter is still at emulsion? You don't necessarily need trace to make a nice swirl. As long as the batter has reached emulsion it will set (might just take a bit longer)
I feel like HO sunflower or refined SAO give me a huge amount of swirling time. RBO seems to accelerate on me though and I've been known to over SB a high OO recipe (though that might just have been because I assumed it needed a lot of SB to trace and wasn't careful enough).
The recipe I used to make my landscape soap for the July challenge was 20% CO, 5% castor and 75% HO sunflower and I think about 30% lye concentration.
I mixed my batter to emulsion, then separated off small bits of batter that I SB'd to trace so the layers would hold. I remember I felt like I had to SB more than I had expected to reach medium trace.
In daily use, I feel the recipe is not stripping, but the lather dissipates a bit quicker than I'd like. SAO might be better for that (it also takes ages to trace and has a slightly more consistent lather) but is less cost-efficient. I'm currently experimenting with a mix of OO and HO sunflower for my soft oils.
As you probably know, CO±OO recipes won't last long in the shower. I personally don't mind, I get bored with a soap when it lasts too long but I know it's an issue for some people.


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 29, 2019)

szaza said:


> Oh my, that sounds like a frustrating problem.. you're at emulsion, everything goes fine, but just as you want to give it a tad more to reach trace you go too far and you have pudding.. It happened to me too! How about instead of stick blending to trace, just hand stir a bit more? It's easier to dose the stirring that way. Also, why don't you try to do a swirl while your batter is still at emulsion? You don't necessarily need trace to make a nice swirl. As long as the batter has reached emulsion it will set (might just take a bit longer)
> I feel like HO sunflower or refined SAO give me a huge amount of swirling time. RBO seems to accelerate on me though and I've been known to over SB a high OO recipe (though that might just have been because I assumed it needed a lot of SB to trace and wasn't careful enough).
> The recipe I used to make my landscape soap for the July challenge was 20% CO, 5% castor and 75% HO sunflower and I think about 30% lye concentration.
> I mixed my batter to emulsion, then separated off small bits of batter that I SB'd to trace so the layers would hold. I remember I felt like I had to SB more than I had expected to reach medium trace.
> ...


Great reply, thanks for the encouragement. The only problem I have is that not being long in soaping I don't get the abbreviations lol. I also never thought of using Sunflower oil which is really inexpensive here in the UK when compered to Olive, Coconut and  Palm Oil.


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## TheGecko (Sep 29, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> If you go to Youtube and look for Ophelias Soapery and watch the video's you will see what I'm trying to achieve. what doesn't help of course is I do not know the base mix that is being used, It could be just Olive and Coco oil which takes much longer to trace. Hope this helps you understand whare I am.



Julie is the reason I have “me” soap.  She does a lot of ITP (in the pot) swirls.  Check out her Daisies and Goji Berries video from 3 months ago, it’s a really good example of her techniques.   After she adds her lye solution she whisks her batter, she doesn’t stick blend.  Then she divides her batter, adds color and fragrance and then stick blends it.

And it’s because of her, Constance Wang and Yvonne that I whisk more than stick blend; it’s been very helpful with my not have pudding for soap.


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## KiwiMoose (Sep 29, 2019)

Try Zany's recipe:https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/zanys-no-slime-castile.72620/
I make it with 10% coconut oil and 5% castor.  It's good!


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 29, 2019)

TheGecko said:


> Julie is the reason I have “me” soap.  She does a lot of ITP (in the pot) swirls.  Check out her Daisies and Goji Berries video from 3 months ago, it’s a really good example of her techniques.   After she adds her lye solution she whisks her batter, she doesn’t stick blend.  Then she divides her batter, adds color and fragrance and then stick blends it.
> 
> And it’s because of her, Constance Wang and Yvonne that I whisk more than stick blend; it’s been very helpful with my not have pudding for soap.


When I watch, Julie (thanks for letting me know the mystery hands are that of a Lady) I see her hand whisk her lye into the oils, hand whisk her colours into the batter then same for her FO. I then watch her stick blend a little. That is the stage I'm getting wrong somehow. It may be my blender is more aggressive than hers or maybe due to inexperience and also not knowing what her batter consists of my better firms up so I can't pour the colours into the main mix then from there into the mould. I know the technique, I'm not good enough to know how the batter is acting. I will leave the stick blender in the cupboard from now on and stick with the whisk. If it takes a day longer to unmould but I get my swirls it's not too much of a hardship.


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## Michele50 (Sep 29, 2019)

TheGecko said:


> Duplicate and I don’t know how to delete.


 
I have yet to find a delete tab.


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 29, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> Try Zany's recipe:https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/zanys-no-slime-castile.72620/
> I make it with 10% coconut oil and 5% castor.  It's good!


Thank you I will.


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## Michele50 (Sep 29, 2019)

TheGecko said:


> Julie is the reason I have “me” soap.  She does a lot of ITP (in the pot) swirls.  Check out her Daisies and Goji Berries video from 3 months ago, it’s a really good example of her techniques.   After she adds her lye solution she whisks her batter, she doesn’t stick blend.  Then she divides her batter, adds color and fragrance and then stick blends it.
> 
> And it’s because of her, Constance Wang and Yvonne that I whisk more than stick blend; it’s been very helpful with my not have pudding for soap.



3 weeks ago I started whisking only and not using my SB at all. I made 4 loaves this way and then on my 5th I used SB with 4 bursts that were almost no burst at all they were soooooo short. I stirred with the SB in between the 4 bursts. I had 25 minutes to do what I needed and wanted to so not using one or using only barely is a good way to slow emulsion down for me.


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 29, 2019)

Michele50 said:


> 3 weeks ago I started whisking only and not using my SB at all. I made 4 loaves this way and then on my 5th I used SB with 4 bursts that were almost no burst at all they were soooooo short. I stirred with the SB in between the 4 bursts. I had 25 minutes to do what I needed and wanted to so not using one or using only barely is a good way to slow emulsion down for me.


Thank you, that makes sense.


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## szaza (Sep 29, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> Great reply, thanks for the encouragement. The only problem I have is that not being long in soaping I don't get the abbreviations lol. I also never thought of using Sunflower oil which is really inexpensive here in the UK when compered to Olive, Coconut and  Palm Oil.


Oh I'm sorry!
OO is olive oil, CO is Coconut oil, SAO is sweet almond oil and SB is stick blender HO means high oleic. It's really important to get high oleic sunflower oil as the regular one will get you DOS (dreaded orange spots)/rancidity in no time when used in higher amounts. I generally get sunflower frying oil, not sure what it's called in the UK, but I'm sure you'll be able to get it from the supermarket. If you want to be sure you can check the label. There has to be mainly mono-unsaturated fats and only a small amount of poly-unsaturated fats in the oil. 
As @KiwiMoose suggested, Zany's recipe produces a nice soap. It lasts long and has a lot less smush than regular high oleic soaps (also at 100% olive oil). It does produce quite a lot of soda ash though, which will cover up most of the design, so in my opinion it's best for single color or uncolored soaps. It also tends to get crumbly when cut from a loaf, so I think a lot of people used cavity molds (I didn't and regretted it..)


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## Relle (Sep 29, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> Great reply, thanks for the encouragement. The only problem I have is that not being long in soaping I don't get the abbreviations lol. I also never thought of using Sunflower oil which is really inexpensive here in the UK when compered to Olive, Coconut and  Palm Oil.



Here is a link on the forum to abbreviations
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/the-acronym-and-abbreviation-definition-thread.3789/


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 29, 2019)

szaza said:


> Oh I'm sorry!
> OO is olive oil, CO is Coconut oil, SAO is sweet almond oil and SB is stick blender HO means high oleic. It's really important to get high oleic sunflower oil as the regular one will get you DOS (dreaded orange spots)/rancidity in no time when used in higher amounts. I generally get sunflower frying oil, not sure what it's called in the UK, but I'm sure you'll be able to get it from the supermarket. If you want to be sure you can check the label. There has to be mainly mono-unsaturated fats and only a small amount of poly-unsaturated fats in the oil.
> As @KiwiMoose suggested, Zany's recipe produces a nice soap. It lasts long and has a lot less smush than regular high oleic soaps (also at 100% olive oil). It does produce quite a lot of soda ash though, which will cover up most of the design, so in my opinion it's best for single color or uncolored soaps. It also tends to get crumbly when cut from a loaf, so I think a lot of people used cavity molds (I didn't and regretted it..)


Thank you so much for that.


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## Michele50 (Sep 29, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> Thank you, that makes sense.



I know you said you used a quick mix, may I ask: how many oz of oil you used of it, how many oz of water in your recipe and, also, how many oz of lye did you use? Thanks.


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 29, 2019)

Michele50 said:


> I know you said you used a quick mix, may I ask: how many oz of oil you used of it, how many oz of water in your recipe and, also, how many oz of lye did you use? Thanks.


Here is my recipe
16oz Olive, 16oz Coconut, 16oz Palm, 2 oz Castor oils. 16.5 oz Water, 7.3 oz lye, I got this from SoapQueen.  Hope this helps?  I actually have run a new recipe through soap calc. Please tell me what you think?  I need all the help I can get. My new recipe is for a smaller batch, so less cost and waste.  Olive 10.40 oz, Coco 4.32 oz, Caster 1.28 oz,  Water 6.08 oz,  Lye 2.25 oz. fragrance 0.5 oz


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## penelopejane (Sep 29, 2019)

Thegeckos recipe in post 23 will make a nicer soap.


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 29, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> Thegeckos recipe in post 23 will make a nicer soap.


Ok, thank you, I'll have a look.


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 29, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> Thegeckos recipe in post 23 will make a nicer soap.


Yeah it probably will but it will be flippin expensive with all those oils I can't just get off the shelf. Also it is probably more complicated for someone of my skill level.


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## penelopejane (Sep 29, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> Yeah it probably will but it will be flippin expensive with all those oils I can't just get off the shelf. Also it is probably more complicated for someone of my skill level.


I thought you wanted to produce a nice soap you can use quickly. It’s not complicated: melt the hard oils and warm the soft oils. Castile is a great soap but it takes 12 months to cure. Good thing is that it needs no FO.


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 29, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> I thought you wanted to produce a nice soap you can use quickly. It’s not complicated: melt the hard oils and warm the soft oils. Castile is a great soap but it takes 12 months to cure. Good thing is that it needs no FO.


Thanks.


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## penelopejane (Sep 29, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> Thanks.


Try this place for supplies: *https://tinyurl.com/y62n3c5z*

Personally I think it’s better to make 4 bars of nice soap than 20 bars of unusable soap.  Go for plain soap until you perfect a recipe then bother about swirls. Saves heaps on mica!


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 29, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> Try this place for supplies: *https://tinyurl.com/y62n3c5z*


Thanks again.


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## Michele50 (Sep 29, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> Here is my recipe
> 16oz Olive, 16oz Coconut, 16oz Palm, 2 oz Castor oils. 16.5 oz Water, 7.3 oz lye, I got this from SoapQueen.  Hope this helps?  I actually have run a new recipe through soap calc. Please tell me what you think?  I need all the help I can get. My new recipe is for a smaller batch, so less cost and waste.  Olive 10.40 oz, Coco 4.32 oz, Caster 1.28 oz,  Water 6.08 oz,  Lye 2.25 oz. fragrance 0.5 oz



If the recipe of 16 oz of each (OO, CO, Palm) and 2 oz of Castor with 16.5 oz water and 7.3 oz lye set up too quickly for you to do what you wanted to do it could be due to various things. You could try using the default setting of 38% water as percent of oils instead of using the 33%. I put the numbers side-by-side and you'll see that there was 2.5 oz less of water in what you went by; less water is ONE of the factors that causes less time to work blending colors and FO and with working with your design.  I'm assuming this recipe is what set up quicker than you wished.


Total oil weight 50 oz                                                    
Water as percent of oil weight 38.00 %                     
Super Fat/Discount 4 %                                                
Lye Concentration 27.815 %                                         
Water : Lye Ratio 2.5952:1                                            

Water 19.00                                                                                                                            
Lye - *NaOH* 7.32                                                            

 Total oil weight 50 oz
Water as percent of oil weight 33.00 %
Super Fat/Discount 4 %
Lye Concentration 30.734 %
Water : Lye Ratio 2.2537:1

Water 16.50 
Lye - *NaOH* 7.32   (it didn't work formatted side-by-side so I had to move the info to one under the other)








I know many are giving good advice and pointers in how they are able to keep things fluid enough to do what they wish (blending colors & FO, and accomplishing their design choice). I just thought I'd mention water.

I've used the same recipe for more than one aim and found I use more water if it's going to be something that's gunna take like 20 minutes or so. If I intend to just use one color or two and do a simple pot swirl then I can get away with less water. Up until recently I usually always used less than 38%. Now that I'm wanting to attempt some techniques that require a lot of time I'm using more water and soaping cooler than I have in the 3 years I've been making soap.  And I use the SB only very briefly, if at all.


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 29, 2019)

Michele50 said:


> If the recipe of 16 oz of each (OO, CO, Palm) and 2 oz of Castor with 16.5 oz water and 7.3 oz lye set up too quickly for you to do what you wanted to do it could be due to various things. You could try using the default setting of 38% water as percent of oils instead of using the 33%. I put the numbers side-by-side and you'll see that there was 2.5 oz less of water in what you went by; less water is ONE of the factors that causes less time to work blending colors and FO and with working with your design.  I'm assuming this recipe is what set up quicker than you wished.
> 
> 
> Total oil weight 50 oz
> ...


That is brilliant, thank you very much. I will try adding more water and let you know how I get on.


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## Michele50 (Sep 29, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> That is brilliant, thank you very much. I will try adding more water and let you know how I get on.


When you enter your oils just try (once anyway) with the preset 38% instead of changing it to 33%. I'm assuming you are from the numbers of oils/water/lye. Don't, please, randomly add 'x' amount of water because too much is not a good thing either.


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 29, 2019)

Michele50 said:


> When you enter your oils just try (once anyway) with the preset 38% instead of changing it to 33%. I'm assuming you are from the numbers of oils/water/lye. Don't, please, randomly add 'x' amount of water because too much is not a good thing either.


Thank you. I am actually only using tried and tested recipies that I find on the internet, I'm learning, slowly and Soap Calc is just over my head at the moment, I do not have the experience to know what oil does what in a soap batch, what properties each one brings to a soap, what they are for so everything is a steep learning curve at the moment. Also as I don't wanna sell soap, it is only for my personal pleasure I don't wanna end up with masses of soap around the house. I have close to 100 bars to wade through at the moment...That's a lot of bathing


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## Michele50 (Sep 29, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> That is brilliant, thank you very much. I will try adding more water and let you know how I get on.



Penelopejane mentioned this video: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/stickblending-to-emulsion.60618/ and it's a good video to watch. 

I knew what to look for quite a few months ago when working up to challenging myself to move away from my comfort zone but my problem was doubting myself. Despite knowing what to look for, I whisked more and more and was then at a slight trace instead of just emulsion. LOL, I had to do that (I think) 3 times before I forced myself to trust myself and accept that if I was wrong 'so what.' I'd throw it out and keep trying. I was right, however, and could have been successful the first time if I would have only trusted my eyes and stopped.


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 29, 2019)

Michele50 said:


> Penelopejane mentioned this video: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/stickblending-to-emulsion.60618/ and it's a good video to watch.
> 
> I knew what to look for quite a few months ago when working up to challenging myself to move away from my comfort zone but my problem was doubting myself. Despite knowing what to look for, I whisked more and more and was then at a slight trace instead of just emulsion. LOL, I had to do that (I think) 3 times before I forced myself to trust myself and accept that if I was wrong 'so what.' I'd throw it out and keep trying. I was right, however, and could have been successful the first time if I would have only trusted my eyes and stopped.


That is exactly the same as myself. I know I should stop then think..What if it isn't mixed enough it may not set. Like you say Michele, I need to trust myself and if it goes wrong, hey! No one died, it'll be OK next time.


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## Michele50 (Sep 29, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> Thank you. I am actually only using tried and tested recipies that I find on the internet, I'm learning, slowly and Soap Calc is just over my head at the moment, I do not have the experience to know what oil does what in a soap batch, what properties each one brings to a soap, what they are for so everything is a steep learning curve at the moment. Also as I don't wanna sell soap, it is only for my personal pleasure I don't wanna end up with masses of soap around the house. I have close to 100 bars to wade through at the moment...That's a lot of bathing



I don't sell either, just ENJOY the art and science of it. I fell in love with soap making the first time I made it. I have a creative spirit and have used cooking, photography, ceramics, etc in my many years living. Art was my first love and actually had a well-known Indian artist take interest in me and offer to teach me free of charge. Anything that allows me to feed my love for creativity is a joy to my soul. With two young boys, I chose not to pursue my art in my early 20's;  what one doesn't use, one loses. I found something that is much more useful than art--soap. We all can use that, right!?!

LOL, my hubby and I have probably enough soap to last 2 lifetimes......I STILL have the NEED to make MORE.



Bless his great big heart, my hubby doesn't mind since it brings me such joy.



Soulboy1973 said:


> That is exactly the same as myself. I know I should stop then think..What if it isn't mixed enough it may not set. Like you say Michele, I need to trust myself and if it goes wrong, hey! No one died, it'll be OK next time.



LOL, yes, correct........no one died so "soap on" I say!


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 29, 2019)

Michele50 said:


> I don't sell either, just ENJOY the art and science of it. I fell in love with soap making the first time I made it. I have a creative spirit and have used cooking, photography, ceramics, etc in my many years living. Art was my first love and actually had a well-known Indian artist take interest in me and offer to teach me free of charge. Anything that allows me to feed my love for creativity is a joy to my soul. With two young boys, I chose not to pursue my art in my early 20's;  what one doesn't use, one loses. I found something that is much more useful than art--soap. We all can use that, right!?!
> 
> LOL, my hubby and I have probably enough soap to last 2 lifetimes......I STILL have the NEED to make MORE.
> 
> ...


He sounds like a good man. My wife also is very understanding. I have always enjoyed using my hands to make and create things, I hate to be bored, like you making soap is a little piece of a very long line of life interests. Thank you for all the help, it really is very much appreciated. 

One of my main pastimes is wet shaving, I'd really love to lern to make my own top quality shaving soap one day, not wishy washy stuff, real artisan, highly moisturizing, thick,glossy shaving soap. That is another thing  though. Good shaving soap is expensive to buy,  I'm certain with the right recipe I can make my own one day. Artisans guard their recipies with their lives. Finding a good recipe is going to be difficult.


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## Marilyn Norgart (Sep 29, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> Palm is the expensive part.



I have only skimmed thru here sorry.  looks like you have gotten a lot of good advice.  like I said I only skimmed thru but I will tell you I don't use palm due to the cost--I use lard coconut oil and safflower.  I don't know about where you live but these are easy to get off the shelf in the grocery stores and are cheaper and I find it makes a very good soap. have you tried making swirls with out using any FOs?


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 29, 2019)

Marilyn Norgart said:


> I have only skimmed thru here sorry.  looks like you have gotten a lot of good advice.  like I said I only skimmed thru but I will tell you I don't use palm due to the cost--I use lard coconut oil and safflower.  I don't know about where you live but these are easy to get off the shelf in the grocery stores and are cheaper and I find it makes a very good soap. have you tried making swirls with out using any FOs?


No not yet. I live in the UK. I can get Olive, Coconut, Sunflower oils off the shelf, also Lard but things like Palm, Castor, Shea, and other exotic oils and butters I need to order online. It mounts up in cost with the more exotic butters and hard oils. If I could make an attractive soap maybe with just two colours I could recoup my investment. I need to try harder.


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## Michele50 (Sep 29, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> One of my main pastimes is wet shaving, I'd really love to lern to make my own top quality shaving soap one day, not wishy washy stuff, real artisan, highly moisturizing, thick,glossy shaving soap. That is another thing  though. Good shaving soap is expensive to buy,  I'm certain with the right recipe I can make my own one day. Artisans guard their recipies with their lives. Finding a good recipe is going to be difficult.



Yes, that kind is very expensive. My oldest son has a beard that's past his waist; like my hair has been for decades. My youngest is now growing is out longer than he's had it for over 10 years. They started losing their hair about 20 years old as my husband did; met when he was 24 and me 17 and he at that time had both sides receding pretty noticeably. Both sons shave their heads since the progression was FAST like their dad's but they use plastic razors and foam in a can--ick.

You can find recipes online for shaving soap and I found one years ago on Pinterest that was decent.



Soulboy1973 said:


> No not yet. I live in the UK. I can get Olive, Coconut, Sunflower oils off the shelf, also Lard but things like Palm, Castor, Shea, and other exotic oils and butters I need to order online. It mounts up in cost with the more exotic butters and hard oils. If I could make an attractive soap maybe with just two colours I could recoup my investment. I need to try harder.



I love my soaps with lard in the recipe!! The lather is great!



Marilyn Norgart said:


> I have only skimmed thru here sorry.  looks like you have gotten a lot of good advice.  like I said I only skimmed thru but I will tell you I don't use palm due to the cost--I use lard coconut oil and safflower.  I don't know about where you live but these are easy to get off the shelf in the grocery stores and are cheaper and I find it makes a very good soap. have you tried making swirls with out using any FOs?



I love my soaps with lard in them!! Great lather!


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## szaza (Sep 29, 2019)

Water is indeed a key player in how the batter behaves. I just wanted to point out that most people here use lye concentration or water:lye ratio as opposed to water as % of oils. Here's a good read that explains the influence of water on your batter and why most soapmakers prefer to calculate water based on the amount of lye in stead of the amount of oils. 
That said, have you decided on a recipe for your next batch yet? Honestly if you still have some palm, I'd go for @Mobjack Bay's proposed recipe of 20% coco, 20% palm and 60% high oleic oils. I suggest you run it through a lye calc and we can double-check the result before you make your next batch. That way you get accustomed to using a lye calc, which is always a good idea. Even when I use a recipe from the internet I still run it through a lye calc just to be sure..


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## Mobjack Bay (Sep 29, 2019)

I ran your revised recipe from this post through SoapCalc and here’s what I got:



I also ran it through the SoapMakingFriend calculator for comparison:




If you compare the two, you will see that SoapMakingFriend gives you a longevity number that SoapCalc does not.  Although coconut oil will make a hard soap, it dissolves quickly in use, so does little for longevity.  Fats with high concentrations of palmitic and steric fatty acids - palm, tallow and lard, for example, contribute to longevity and hardness.

I found this article on the Soapy Stuff website to be very useful when I was trying to decide how much water to use in my recipes:

https://classicbells.com/soap/waterInSoap.asp

Here’s your recipe made using less water for comparison with the original version above.  The only things that change are the weight of water and the total batch weight.




Based on the oils you said you had on hand, here’s a recipe with palm added so you can see how it changes longevity and the other calculated soap properties.  I calculated it using SoapMakingFriend (38% water) and also at 33% lye concentration (28.5% water for this recipe), which is in the range I use.

“Full water” version:




Lower water (33% lye concentration) version:




It’s strictly a coincidence that the needed lye weight does not change compared with the original recipe.

A calculator helps you build recipes with soap qualities in mind, although it may not tell you much about how a soap changes as it cures.  The traditional 100% olive oil soap gets better with a long cure and is the classic example of a recipe that looks strange in a calculator:


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## Michele50 (Sep 29, 2019)

szaza said:


> Water is indeed a key player in how the batter behaves. I just wanted to point out that most people here use lye concentration or water:lye ratio as opposed to water as % of oils. Here's a good read that explains the influence of water on your batter and why most soapmakers prefer to calculate water based on the amount of lye in stead of the amount of oils.
> That said, have you decided on a recipe for your next batch yet? Honestly if you still have some palm, I'd go for @Mobjack Bay's proposed recipe of 20% coco, 20% palm and 60% high oleic oils. I suggest you run it through a lye calc and we can double-check the result before you make your next batch. That way you get accustomed to using a lye calc, which is always a good idea. Even when I use a recipe from the internet I still run it through a lye calc just to be sure..


I do too but a good friend of mine who I enjoy helping  likes the % but, to me, tells me nothing (!). All recipes will have a liquid (water, milk, beer, rice water, etc and all which I have used) and oils so every recipe will have 'x' percent of oil weight. 

I sent sites that explained how much more helpful lye concentration was over % and how much better understanding water:lye ratio is than the %. I gave her my opinions/explanations of how she might better be served not paying much attention to the %. I even tried making a video showing the why's using soapcalc but she likes the % so that's what I'm used to dealing with.....for her. I agree water as percent of oil weight isn't much use. That's why I mentioned my using one same recipe except for the amount of water I used was different (more for longer time and less when time wasn't an issue). Personally, I use less any time I can so it has less to evaporate out and cure. Thanks for pointing that out though


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## Carly B (Sep 29, 2019)

TheGecko said:


> Of course.  Folks have been making soap for thousands of years without stick blenders, it just takes a little longer.
> 
> .  I soap at around 70F.  I whisk my lye solution into my oils and then use my stick blender to give it a couple of 2-3 second bursts and I’m at emulsification.
> 
> I use 10% Cocoa Butter, 10% Shea Butter, 20% Palm Oil, 20% Coconut Oil (76 deg), 35% Olive Oil and 5% Castor Oil.  30% Lye Concentration, 5% Super Fat.



Gecko, how do you manage to soap so cool with all your butters and hard oils?  I only make small batches too, but I've been soaping hotter because the oils get cloudy when they cool off too much. I would love to soap at a cooler temp, but I've been worried that if I do, the hard oils might not get mixed in completely.


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## Michele50 (Sep 29, 2019)

Carly B said:


> Gecko, how do you manage to soap so cool with all your butters and hard oils?  I only make small batches too, but I've been soaping hotter because the oils get cloudy when they cool off too much. I would love to soap at a cooler temp, but I've been worried that if I do, the hard oils might not get mixed in completely.



Me too @Carly B; the coolest I soap is about 5 degrees warmer than the melting point of my highest hard oil, which is palm. I figure it (palm's melting tmep) at 97 from what I found online, so I like my oils and lye solution to be close to 102-105 so that I don't get false trace. With CO and Palm and Lard my oils are clear a bit above 100 and I try to stay within just a few degrees of my lye solution. I know 10 degrees is okay but I shoot for it to be within just a few.

When I checked on Cocoa Butter and Shea (by Googling it) I found about 101 is the melting point of the highest. I guess my 102-105 would be okay if I used these but I'm just beginning to soap cooler so I don't want to borrow trouble 



szaza said:


> "....How about instead of stick blending to trace, just hand stir a bit more? .... You don't necessarily need trace to make a nice swirl. As long as the batter has reached emulsion it will set (might just take a bit longer)
> 
> I feel like HO sunflower or refined SAO give me a huge amount of swirling time. RBO seems to accelerate on me though .....
> 
> I mixed my batter to emulsion, then separated off small bits of batter that I SB...



All good points.
***      ***      ***      ***      ***      ***      ***      ***      ***     ***      ***      ***      ***      ***      ***      ***      ***      ******      ***      ***      ***      ***      ***      ***      ***      ***     ***      ***      ***      ***      ***      ***  
I just want to comment that I love this forum!! There are SOOO many who know a great deal and they're so eager to assist we who have less knowledge/experience. With many chiming in to respond to all kinds of questions over the board topics within it, each person adding their experiences and knowledge, much useful info is presented.



Deborah Long said:


> The short answer here is YES!  And I personally would recommend that!  I usually add my EO/FO at the very last bit because that is mostly the reason things go wonky.  As long as your batter has emulsified - you're good to go!



Yup, and I know many of us also might have our FO/EO proportioned out for our main container and our smaller containers of colored soap batter. If our design doesn't call for all of our batter to be placed in the mold at or near to the same time then waiting until right before it's needed (then adding the Fragrance) will give even more time to carry out the many steps of a more intricate design.


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## Arimara (Sep 29, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> Yeah it probably will but it will be flippin expensive with all those oils I can't just get off the shelf. Also it is probably more complicated for someone of my skill level.



When I started soaping, I just jumped into it. I bought my NaOH, oils and cocoa butter and went for it. Needless to say, I think I came out fine because of it since my soaps came out fine. In any case, I think you should just try what you can afford to try but play around with your recipes to see what works for you. Since some oils are obviously more expensive than others, maybe you could try form animal fats since they generally make lovely soap. beef tallow and lard are two of the most common tallows that we use, can be  used separate for nice enough soaps (putting that lightly) or together to make a really nice soap. Just use a little more lard than tallow since beef tallow tends to be a little more cleansing than a soap calculator would suggest.


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## TheGecko (Sep 29, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> It may be my blender is more aggressive than hers or maybe due to inexperience and also not knowing what her batter consists of my better firms up so I can't pour the colours into the main mix then from there into the mould. I know the technique, I'm not good enough to know how the batter is acting. I will leave the stick blender in the cupboard from now on and stick with the whisk. If it takes a day longer to unmould but I get my swirls it's not too much of a hardship.



I had a real problem with stick blending in the beginning.  Watching all those folks on YouTube waving their stick blenders around like magic wands and making layers and swirls and all sorts of fancy designs...and I would get pudding.  I thought it was my batter too...which is was in a way, just not the ingredients...it was the size of my batter.  I was watching folks who were making anywhere from 10 to 25 lbs of batter, while I was make 1 to 2 lbs.  So yeah, I was *WAY* over blending my batter.  And of course, it doesn't help that I have a BEAST of a stick blender, at least in comparison to the size of my batter.  

So I thought back to the soap class I had taken about six years ago...aside from the fact that we looked like a biohazard team handling a combination of liquid explosives and Ebola, it was soap making at its most basic....candy thermometer, whisk, large spoon and a juice carton.  I was the only one who brought a scent...that I bought from Hobby Lobby.  Six weeks later I was bathing with the ugliest bar of soap probably ever created by a human being*, but it was soap.

_* - I tried to unmold too soon and it stuck to the carton and it stuck to the knife and I had to reshape it a bit.
_
Please feel free to use my recipe (as always, run any recipe through SoapCalc).  If you don't have Cocoa or Shea Butter, increase the Coconut and Palm Oils to 25% and Olive Oil to 45%.  I freeze my Distilled Water into cubes, no fumes and I don't have to wait for it to cool down (I like to soap at cooler temps when adding color and scents).

Start with a 1 pound batch (16 ounces/500 grams)...no color, no scent to get a 'feel' for the recipe.  After you pour the Lye Solution into your oils, note how it all sinks to the bottom and there is a distinct separation between the oils and the water.  Now give it a bit of a rough stir with your spatula for about 10 seconds and watch what happens; the water and oils will separate into their two layers, but you will note the start of a third layer in the middle...this is where the two have started to blend, aka 'emulsify'.  Now give it a good 30 second whisk and take a look at how many layers you have.  If you're not sure, look at the top of your batter...do you see any oil (shiny spots) floating on top? 

'Trace' and 'emulsification' are pretty much one and the same (though some may disagree)...it's the point where your oils and water are mixed together and will not separate back to their original form.  It is my humble opinion that the reason why 'light trace' is emphasized as the goal to achieve when first starting soap making is simply to make sure that you have blended your oils and water correctly.  But the truth of the matter is, once your oils and lye solution has emulsified, 'trace' is redundant because if you walk away from that bowl and come back in 24 hours, it will have saponified and you'll have a bowl of soap.

The time to unmold and cut this recipe can vary from 12 hours to 3 days.  Insulted and in a 80F warm garage...12 hours.  Covered with a bit to prevent soda ash and in a 60F garage...about 36 hours to unmold and another 12 hours to cut.  As the weather continues to cool and it's raining five days a week...it'll take longer unless I keep it in the house.  My husband is looking at building me an insulted drying box or I'm guessing 10 to 12 weeks to cure my soap in the garage.

 When I first got into soap making, it was with the sole intent of making myself some Black Raspberry Vanilla Goat Milk Soap...that's it.  Not quite a year later I talking about emulsification and temperatures and have sucked into the science of it all...and I don't even like science.  But I do like soap, and I want make a good soap...not just for me, but for my family and friends, and to perfect strangers so when I retire, I won't have to share my cat's food.  There is this video...it's a mirror glaze technique with four shades of the same color and it beyond beautiful!  I really, really, REALLY want to make it, but I know I'm not ready.  I first need to learn how to roll over and get up on my knees, and then to crawl.  And then to pull myself up to the sofa and cruise the furniture until I can walk solo.  And once I get that down...then I can run.


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## Michele50 (Sep 29, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> Here is my recipe
> 16oz Olive, 16oz Coconut, 16oz Palm, 2 oz Castor oils. 16.5 oz Water, 7.3 oz lye, I got this from SoapQueen.  Hope this helps?
> 
> I actually have run a new recipe through soap calc. Please tell me what you think?  I need all the help I can get. My new recipe is for a smaller batch, so less cost and waste.  Olive 10.40 oz, Coco 4.32 oz, Caster 1.28 oz,  Water 6.08 oz,  Lye 2.25 oz. fragrance 0.5 oz



Your 2nd recipe here will give you a weaker/less concentrated lye solution (more water percentage) than the 1st recipe which seemed to thicken quicker than you desired. This should give you more time providing you use the SB in very short bursts and stir in between the few bursts so you can note the changes in the mixture 'slowly' as you aim for emulsion.

Just as @Mobjack Bay mentioned 





Mobjack Bay said:


> Many of the experienced soap makers on Youtube are using very thin batter and I personally think that stage can be very tricky for beginners. It was for me! .....


 If you continue to have issues stopping at emulsion you could still make decorative soaps with swirls using a couple of colors. Below is one soap I made with a couple of colors. I did this when I was fairly new (1 year in) to making soap even though my lye concentration was 30.30, I soaped at 125-ish temp, and SB-ing until thin trace. 



Once you get comfortable with all the steps you can work towards stopping at emulsion--just a suggestion so you don't become so frustrated you quit altogether. NOT that you have to wait as long as I did (3 yrs) to tackle this "tricky for beginners" stage; I was having fun with all the designs I "can" do with the higher temps / stronger lye concentration to focus on emulsion/cool temps. There are lots of nice designs, someone mentioned a pot swirl--those are pretty--and can be done at a thin trace.



TheGecko said:


> I had a real problem with stick blending in the beginning.  Watching all those folks on YouTube waving their stick blenders around like magic wands and making layers and swirls and all sorts of fancy designs...and would get pudding.  I thought it was my batter too...which is was in a way, just not the ingredients...it was the size of my batter.  I was watching folks who were making anywhere from 10 to 25 lbs of batter, while I was make 1 to 2 lbs.  So yeah, I was *WAY* over blending my batter.  And of course, it doesn't help that I have a BEAST of a stick blender, at least in comparison to the size of my batter.
> 
> So I thought back to the soap class I had taken about six years ago...aside from the fact that we looked like a biohazard team handling a combination of liquid explosives and Ebola, it was soap making at its most basic....candy thermometer, whisk, large spoon and a juice carton.  I was the only one who brought a scent...that I bought from Hobby Lobby.  Six weeks later I was bathing with the ugliest bar of soap probably ever created by a human being*, but it was soap.
> 
> ...



SO WELL PUT! All of it!


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## MGM (Sep 29, 2019)

I just made a soap that took over 45 minutes to pour, made up of 5 colours and scented. I will post the recipe just as soon as I've rested a bit, since prepping everything took another hour and apparently 2hrs is my max today.....


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## Michele50 (Sep 29, 2019)

MGM said:


> I just made a soap that took over 45 minutes to pour, made up of 5 colours and scented. I will post the recipe just as soon as I've rested a bit, since prepping everything took another hour and apparently 2hrs is my max today.....



Wow, that sounds great! Thank you.


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## TheGecko (Sep 29, 2019)

Michele50 said:


> SO WELL PUT! All of it!



Thank you.  I forgot to add that even though my first goat milk soap was a failure (it overheated and was an oily mess), my second batch was perfect as was my third batch...the much wanted Black Raspberry Vanilla.


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## Michele50 (Sep 29, 2019)

TheGecko said:


> Thank you.  I forgot to add that even though my first goat milk soap was a failure (it overheated and was an oily mess), my second batch was perfect as was my third batch...the much wanted Black Raspberry Vanilla.



I'm very happy for you--success is sweet....smelling your Black Raspberry Vanilla soap through the internet 
If my 5-year-old grandson can (@dibbles soap that was entered in Sep challenge), then so can I.

I remember my first GM soap. I always do so much reading/research before trying anything new (lol, back then EVERYTHING WAS NEW) that I put it down into an ice bath in our RV kitchen sink. Only 1 year in (used an online recipe), I was so worried about it becoming a volcano so I didn't really want it in our freezer/refrigerator. We had only just purchased our toy hauler and I didn't want the mess. Plus, I didn't want it to deal with sweating once removed from the freezer--not knowing enough I was just trying to head off issues b/4 they came upon me. I read so many good reviews on the FO (Energy) but, ICK, I didn't like it at all. Other than not liking the smell, I was happy with design and washing. I gave it all away, except for one bar for my hubby because he liked the scent.

It's funny how I'm not at all timid to use milk products in my soap now and I had so many thoughts of eruptions and burnt milk back then. I don't view failures as 'failure' they are learning experiences in disguise. That's what I hope @Soulboy1973 realizes and he pushes forward and onward.

I had one 3 weeks ago that I thought I might have to throw out but I'm so glad I gave it 3 days to saponify and solidify. It was still quite liquid looking 18 hours after pouring. Ended up being a nice teardrop design on a few bars--I still need practice! though. Sadly my friend ended up with what I was looking at after 24 hours and she threw her's out b/4 I could text her not to.


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## dibbles (Sep 29, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> When I watch, Julie (thanks for letting me know the mystery hands are that of a Lady) I see her hand whisk her lye into the oils, hand whisk her colours into the batter then same for her FO. I then watch her stick blend a little. That is the stage I'm getting wrong somehow. It may be my blender is more aggressive than hers or maybe due to inexperience and also not knowing what her batter consists of my better firms up so I can't pour the colours into the main mix then from there into the mould. I know the technique, I'm not good enough to know how the batter is acting. I will leave the stick blender in the cupboard from now on and stick with the whisk. If it takes a day longer to unmould but I get my swirls it's not too much of a hardship.


One other thing to keep in mind when watching YouTube videos is that a lot of the time they are making much larger batches which requires more time with the stick blender to reach emulsion than it does you or I making 1-3 pound batches. When I want to work with batter at emulsion I use the stick blender in very short - 1 to 2 second - bursts and stir between. Sometimes just letting the batter rest for a short time between the stick blender and stirring helps too.


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## Marilyn Norgart (Sep 29, 2019)

I also go by how the batter sticks to my SB if it covers it and is a  little bit thick I start my swirls--if I don't want swirls I SB until when I pull the SB out of the batter the drops don't sink in.


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## Michele50 (Sep 29, 2019)

Great point @dibbles! Great minds think alike: 





TheGecko said:


> ".....in the beginning... I was watching folks who were making anywhere from 10 to 25 lbs of batter, while I was make 1 to 2 lbs. So yeah, I was *WAY* over blending my batter. And of course, it doesn't help that I have a BEAST of a stick blender, at least in comparison to the size of my batter.



It's good for those who are starting to hear this from more than one person because it can *easily *go unrealized, and there's a big difference.


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## MGM (Sep 29, 2019)

Ok I've recovered enough to attach the recipe, in the goal of giving @Soulboy1973  a nice slow-moving recipe for tons of swirls. I'm serious when I say it took me 45 minutes to pour this thing....tomorrow I will write up the whole sordid ordeal and post pix, but for now, I can say that if this recipe was fluid for me for 45 minutes, it ought to last long enough to play around a bit.
Castor oil should be available at any Boots, I would think. If Grapeseed is too fancy, you can likely replace that with OO or Sunflower. I think it was Sunflower (or Safflower?) in the original recipe and someone on the board recommended Grapeseed.

ETA: @Soulboy1973  100% lard gives a slow-moving batter as well. Then you don't have to fool around with any oils: warm up your lard and you're done!


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## Michele50 (Sep 29, 2019)

Mobjack Bay said:


> "....https://classicbells.com/soap/waterInSoap.asp



I have so many informative sites bookmarked that my head spins; this is one of the gazillian I happened upon. With all the info everyone is giving @Soulboy1973, he'll be seeing success before too long........and he'll have a gazillian of booked marked sites. Eventually, he'll be doing things as 2nd nature and not even thinking about the process.



MGM said:


> "....ETA: @Soulboy1973  100% lard gives a slow-moving batter as well. Then you don't have to fool around with any oils: warm up your lard and you're done!



I've haven't ever made 100% lard but I do know that the soap I make with it moves more slowly. I have more time to work than when I use some other hard/solid oils in place of it when I'm out; superb point because not all hard oils speed up trace. Some oils break the rules, just like all soft oils don't end up producing a soft bar. *True *Castile soap (*100%* OO) when cured long enough and/or is made with a steep water discount (*high *lye concentration) it creates a nice hard bar. Usually, soft oils won't do that but that's what's neat about the uniqueness of the oil.


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## TheGecko (Sep 29, 2019)

Carly B said:


> Gecko, how do you manage to soap so cool with all your butters and hard oils?  I only make small batches too, but I've been soaping hotter because the oils get cloudy when they cool off too much. I would love to soap at a cooler temp, but I've been worried that if I do, the hard oils might not get mixed in completely.



My apologies for missing this earlier.  

I start by melting my Cocoa Butter until it’s softened, then I add in my Coconut and Palm Oils and heat until the Cocoa Butter, stir and then I add in my Shea Butter and stir until it is melted (it helps that I shred my Cocoa Butter and chop my Shea Butter into small pieces).  I then add my Castor and Palm Oils, give everything a good stir, add my Kaolin Clay and set aside.  I then weigh out my lye and frozen distilled water, mix well and add my Sodium Lactate.

Now I don’t know the science of it (yet), but if I walk way from my hard oils after I have melted them, they will eventually cool down enough to go cloudy as they start to resolidify.  But once I mix them with my liquid oils and give them a good stir, they take a lot longer to cool down.  Maybe it works like when you emulsify oil and water...it changes them.

Then I give the oils a couple of pulse to mix the clay throughout and pour in my Lye Solution, and give it a bit of a whisk and/or a couple of pulses and I’m good to go.  The nice thing about soaping this cool is, so long as your additives (color, scent, etc) are well-behaved, you have plenty of time to work.  Anyhoo...it just works for me.


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## Kathymzr (Sep 29, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> Thank you, that makes sense.


Stay the course. When there are no more oil slicks floating on the batter, give it a few more whisks, or stick blend saying Mississippi and stop. Forget fancy swirls! Stick to in pot swirls with a couple of colors! Do small batches! Give your soap away—it’s already far better than store-bought soap. My friends and family are happy to help me learn by trying my beginner soap. I enlist them to give me feedback. You are too hard on yourself!! And a one color soap with a light fragrance is always appreciated. People will look forward to your soap. Baby steps! And stick to well- behaved fragrance oils till your basic method is comfortable. With basic recipe, minimal colors, well- behaved fragrance in small batches, add one more variable at a time. Relax!!


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## TheGecko (Sep 29, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> Yeah it probably will but it will be flippin expensive with all those oils I can't just get off the shelf. Also it is probably more complicated for someone of my skill level.



Not at all.  Considering I am not buying bulk unless you consider 1lb and 7lbs to be; cost per 1lb batch is $4.70USD.  And if you don’t have access to Cocoa and Shea Butters, you can increase Coconut and Palm Oils to 25% and Olive Oil to 45%.  And it’s not complicated unless you don’t know how to weigh your ingredients or push a button on the microwave.  And if you look at Post 82, I even added details on how I prepare my recipe.

FYI - Until I got into Costco (membership warehouse store), I wasn’t getting ANY of my ingredients ‘off the shelf’, I was having to order them online.  And the only thing I’m getting from Costco is Olive and Coconut Oil...I STILL have to order everything else.  And no, I’m not made of money.  If I was, then I would have a studio with killer tunes and be shredding a 55lb block of Cocoa Butter.  Instead I’m using a cheese slicer that I modified to cut soap and old cookie sheets lined with freezer paper to cure my soaps.

At this point, my suggestion would be for you to take some time off from soap making and start over with the basics of soap making, and the why, wherefore and how.  And when you watch videos, watch a LOT of different videos, read the descriptions, take notes.  And while you’re improving/increasing your knowledge start picking up your ingredients here and there, or set aside some money every payday until you can purchase.  And shop around.


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## JoeyJ (Sep 30, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> Try Zany's recipe:https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/zanys-no-slime-castile.72620/
> I make it with 10% coconut oil and 5% castor.  It's good!


I have used this with excellent results. Add sodium lactate also, and hot processed as well. It can be swirled, or pored into a mould, depending on how far you blend it to trace. All told its my most favourite, most gentle, soap


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## Soulboy1973 (Sep 30, 2019)

MGM said:


> Ok I've recovered enough to attach the recipe, in the goal of giving @Soulboy1973  a nice slow-moving recipe for tons of swirls. I'm serious when I say it took me 45 minutes to pour this thing....tomorrow I will write up the whole sordid ordeal and post pix, but for now, I can say that if this recipe was fluid for me for 45 minutes, it ought to last long enough to play around a bit.
> Castor oil should be available at any Boots, I would think. If Grapeseed is too fancy, you can likely replace that with OO or Sunflower. I think it was Sunflower (or Safflower?) in the original recipe and someone on the board recommended Grapeseed.
> 
> ETA: @Soulboy1973  100% lard gives a slow-moving batter as well. Then you don't have to fool around with any oils: warm up your lard and you're done!


Thank you so much for the recipe. It is a massive help when you know you are making a successful soap already made by an experienced soaper. It takes all the guess work out of the equation and you have the confidence to really go for it and also make a success of it. I'm really grateful for everybodies help on here. I feel lucky to have found this wonderful group of people.


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## Michele50 (Sep 30, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> Thank you so much for the recipe. It is a massive help when you know you are making a successful soap already made by an experienced soaper. It takes all the guess work out of the equation and you have the confidence to really go for it and also make a success of it. I'm really grateful for everybodies help on here. I feel lucky to have found this wonderful group of people.



I SECOND that, this is such a tremendous group of people--ready to offer assistance and kindly correct errors if you make them. I consulted this forum for years before joining it, so glad I did; I've overcome 'much' of my bashfulness for speaking to (putting my comments out to) others but am still a bit backwards around others. I don't feel too awkward, though, here because there are soooo many kind and helpful folks they don't make me feel stupid if I happen to stick my foot in my mouth--and I have.


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## penelopejane (Sep 30, 2019)

Michele50 said:


> Yup, and I know many of us also might have our FO/EO proportioned out for our main container and our smaller containers of colored soap batter. If our design doesn't call for all of our batter to be placed in the mold at or near to the same time then waiting until right before it's needed (then adding the Fragrance) will give even more time to carry out the many steps of a more intricate design.



You make it sound as if all FOs accelerate. They don’t. Some even slow trace. A lot of people on the forum add FOs to the oils early on so you can control emulsion/trace better. Once emulsion is reached you don’t have to go further adding FOs. 

Also the FO is well mixed in so it doesn’t leak out or form oily patches that a few people who add the FO at trace experience.


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## Michele50 (Sep 30, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> You make it sound as if all FOs accelerate. They don’t. Some even slow trace. A lot of people on the forum add FOs to the oils early on so you can control emulsion/trace better. Once emulsion is reached you don’t have to go further adding FOs.
> 
> Also the FO is well mixed in so it doesn’t leak out or form oily patches that a few people who add the FO at trace experience.



Sorry, didn't mean to insinuate that. I generally add mine to the whole pot of batter, while other times I add it to my individual containers--when I'm attempting to make the teardrop design. This design I'm working towards getting a perfect teardrop all the way across my loaf mold. I found that adding it as I usually do (to the whole mix) I end up with batter too thick to pour down the sides of my mold simultaneously. While the two containers I'm pouring down the length's edges is still fluid enough for other designs, it's not fluid enough to move the colors I've laid down for the teardrop. I then end up with a campfire look rather than the rounded bottom with a nice thin tail upward. The second try I planned "not" scent the two containers for my side pour but forgot so, once again, I got the campfire (lol) again. The 3rd and 4th attempt I did remember to wait and got good results--a teardrop, yeay!!

True, most times adding and combining my FO to the whole container of batter works best for me. In 'some' instances, however,  ('possibly' due to the FO I'm using) it works best if added and well blended to my containers right b/4 I use them. 

I have also noticed that a couple of my FOs actually thinned my batter so I make notes of this in on my recipe for future purposes. I *should *make a small amount of soap with all my FO so I see how each will affect my soap batter but I don't; instead, I have a plan B in case things don't go as planned. In 3 years, I've only had to use my plan B twice. I like the Bramble Berry site as they give good details about their FOs, other sites that don't have a comment section that helps with how things worked out for those using them....but sometimes there are _*different *_outcomes regarding the very same FO.

I hope (@penelopejane) I've clarified my comment well enough not to throw others off with what I stated. I have even added my FO to my oils (b/4 the lye) as I've seen others do on Youtube. Sadly, with the two times I did this I didn't have a good outcome; but, it could have been my recipe--there are so many variables that can affect soap making.


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## Marilyn Norgart (Sep 30, 2019)

Michele50 said:


> perfect teardrop



I have only tried that once and had way too much batter for the tear and the bottom layer was to thin so I wound up swirling the tear and wound up with what looked like an onion.  I really want to try it again though. I think separating and sb the bottom part is going to be my hard part.  but it such a cool design isn't it?


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## Dennis Ong (Sep 30, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> No not yet, It came from Brambleberry and is their basic lathering soap.


Hi I just wanted to make a mention that I think you and I are working on the same recipe and I also just started soapmaking as a hobby about 2 months ago, I'm really a newbie. Although it is the same recipe, what I have done is to resize my batch. You see, my batch is only 120g which is exactly one soap bar. I don't usually see people doing this because one soap bar is a really small quantity. But it's definitely doable, I've done two soap bars already. I had to learn how to use SoapCalc and BrambleBerry's calc for resizing. I mention this because I think one of the problems you've had is with cost and with soap loaves, cost can be a real factor. But once sized down to a soap bar, cost is much more manageable and you can afford to play around with EOs and FOs to see what works and what doesn't. It also allows you to get in the practice and observations for future bars/loaves. With soap bar sizes, stick blending is only 2-3 secs, then leave it alone for 15 mins for all the bubbles to come out, from what I've observed.


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## Soulboy1973 (Oct 1, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> You make it sound as if all FOs accelerate. They don’t. Some even slow trace. A lot of people on the forum add FOs to the oils early on so you can control emulsion/trace better. Once emulsion is reached you don’t have to go further adding FOs.
> 
> Also the FO is well mixed in so it doesn’t leak out or form oily patches that a few people who add the FO at trace experience.


The trouble with FO's is finding one that really behaves itself. Lot's are on offer from loads of companies but finding ones with lots of reviews is hard work. I'm in the UK, I can find around ten or more soaping companies that sell FO then when you go to check the reviews, nothing so buying a FO blind is a minefield as an excellerating oil can ruin a batch in less than a minute.


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## penelopejane (Oct 1, 2019)

I know. FO companies here edit their reviews too. I know because I’ve submitted some that have never made it through or have only had part of the review included. “Lovely scent but faded after 6 weeks” becomes: “lovely scent”! 

I am a cynic and don’t believe that all the fragrance suppliers make their own scents. Google the name of a few of the scents of the supplier you like in the uk and find it in a US FO supplier like natures garden and read the FO description and if it matches read the reviews there. 
Then check out our fragrance oil reviews: 
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/fragrance-oil-review-chart-link.47182/

Go to the last page for current links. 

Some companies may make their own or change the FO name but you can get a pretty good idea of what behaves and doesn’t. 

You might also have a soapmaking uk Facebook group that does a review of large uk suppliers. Or search on SMF for uk FO reviews. Stick to the tried and true. 

The majority of florals accelerate.


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## Michele50 (Oct 1, 2019)

Marilyn Norgart said:


> I have only tried that once and had way too much batter for the tear and the bottom layer was to thin so I wound up swirling the tear and wound up with what looked like an onion.  I really want to try it again though. I think separating and sb the bottom part is going to be my hard part.  but it such a cool design isn't it?





Soulboy1973 said:


> The trouble with FO's is finding one that really behaves itself. Lot's are on offer from loads of companies but finding ones with lots of reviews is hard work. I'm in the UK, I can find around ten or more soaping companies that sell FO then when you go to check the reviews, nothing so buying a FO blind is a minefield as an accelerating oil can ruin a batch in less than a minute.



From Bramble Berry, most that state "works well in cold process soap" have behaved; those I don't mind blending with a whisk into my thinly traced soap batter. On Youtube, some blend with a whisk and some use a SB; I've had no issues using my whisk but I whisk the FO into my batter very well. Those I purchase elsewhere (where no info is given and I find 'no' comments) I tend separate into the number of containers I have and in amounts that are appropriate for the amount of batter in each. If the FO plays well then I note that and am not worried to use it in my whole batch next time. If it accelerates then I note that and use it for designs that won't require much time. In actuality, I've only had a couple that did that.

I don't want to bother with making one bar for all my FOs, which is probably the best way to go; I find my system sufficient. The mention of _portioning out_ FO was more for you as a heads-up that _*some *_will accelerate, then you're left with working very quickly to get things in the mold. If you haven't already set up a plan B you might kind of panic and not even have time to color anything......just have to dump it into the mold. You're left with a loaf of bland-looking soap; it still washes but I'd rather have my pretty soap than bland soap (lol). In three years, I've only had 2 FO that accelerated (with comments on them, I knew in advance) and had a plan B so I was able to color the batter and do at least a spoon swirl with one and just plopped the other (alternating the colored batter) into the mold with a spoon. Both soaps looked better than just bland/no color soap. That was in my 1st year of soaping, so far so good on all that I've used for the past 2 years.

I'll state again, it's advised from sites that don't list details about their FO to make a small test batch to see how the FO behaves. I guess I should but don't because I've had success with my own system of testing FOs when there's no helpful info.


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## Mistrael (Oct 2, 2019)

I'm super new to soaping too, and I blame Ophelia's Soapery for it, too.  Her stuff is so gorgeous! I highly recommend buying a few bars to give yourself a happy thing while you're working out how to make your own. It's what I'm doing and it helps soothe the frustration.

For single oil soaps that don't break the budget, I strongly recommend Zany's castile recipe and 100% coconut oil with a 20% superfat. I've done both so far, but without mica, and they're beautiful. Maybe try some of the reliable essential oils like lavender? 

I have bought a handful of fragrance oils, and activated charcoal & kaolin clay, but I haven't used everything yet. Have you looked at Nurture Soap? Their soap notes on their fragrance oils are more thorough than a lot of other companies I've seen.

If you don't have single bar molds, I highly recommend picking up a couple. When I did my coconut oil soap, I only used 10 oz of oil, but added 8 oz of sea salt for a good scrubby bar. My family *loves* it, and my husband has been impressed with the lather and cleansing power.

Oh! Soaping101 has some great tips & recipes! Including a shaving soap, and dollar store hacks. And if SoapCalc is problematic for you, try spending some time on it when you aren't planning to make anything. I found it before coming here... There was probably a suggestion in one of my soap books... I've spent hours on that thing, just seeing what would happen with different formulas. Eventually it started making more sense. Somewhere on this forum there are experienced soapers analyzing the details of SoapCalc, too.


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## Arimara (Oct 4, 2019)

Mistrael said:


> I'm super new to soaping too, and I blame *Ophelia's Soapery *for it, too.  Her stuff is so gorgeous! I highly recommend buying a few bars to give yourself a happy thing while you're working out how to make your own. It's what I'm doing and it helps soothe the frustration.
> 
> For single oil soaps that don't break the budget, I strongly recommend Zany's castile recipe and 100% coconut oil with a 20% superfat. I've done both so far, but without mica, and they're beautiful. Maybe try some of the reliable essential oils like lavender?
> 
> ...


I've seen a few of her YT videos. I'm not quite sure gorgeous is the word I'd use for her soaps. Her soaps, IMO, go beyond gorgeous but I have not had the pleasure of trying them. The last soaper whose soaps I tried was the owner Great Cakes (forgot her name DX). Her soaps are boss too.

Do be careful with the activate charcoal. That stuff gets everywhere if you let it and if you use too much, your wash rags will suffer for it.


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## TheGecko (Oct 12, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> The trouble with FO's is finding one that really behaves itself. Lot's are on offer from loads of companies but finding ones with lots of reviews is hard work. I'm in the UK, I can find around ten or more soaping companies that sell FO then when you go to check the reviews, nothing so buying a FO blind is a minefield as an excellerating oil can ruin a batch in less than a minute.



There are quite a few UK UTube soapers; two I follow are EdensSecret1 and Future Primitive Soap Company.  They talk about what colorants and scents they use and where they get them from.  In fact, EdensSecret1 just came out with a new video making mini cupcakes with a bunch of different colors and scents and ranked the scents on how fast they thickened up/set on her.

I only buy ‘trial’ sizes of scents the first time out (except for once) and then make a small batch of soap with it.  It’s more expensive if you really like it, but way cheaper if you don’t.


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## Soulboy1973 (Oct 12, 2019)

TheGecko said:


> There are quite a few UK UTube soapers; two I follow are EdensSecret1 and Future Primitive Soap Company.  They talk about what colorants and scents they use and where they get them from.  In fact, EdensSecret1 just came out with a new video making mini cupcakes with a bunch of different colors and scents and ranked the scents on how fast they thickened up/set on her.
> 
> I only buy ‘trial’ sizes of scents the first time out (except for once) and then make a small batch of soap with it.  It’s more expensive if you really like it, but way cheaper if you don’t.


That's great. Thanks.


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## LilyJo (Oct 12, 2019)

Tbh the only problems I've had with FO was with floral, I dont think I've had a bad one from any reputable UK supplier.

Try ordering something from the Soapery or Livemoor or even MNG, they dont add postage so are always good for testing. But if you want  reliable FO, approved for use in the UK etc you will need to order from one of the big soap suppliers.


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## Soulboy1973 (Oct 12, 2019)

Just checked out Future Primiive soap co on YT, Wow! that lady is talented, mad as a box of Frogs, which I like but talented. I'd love my soap to come out like hers one day, TBH my Olive and Coconut soap has been the only recipe that has behaved as well and set as hard as hers looks, it seems the more I add like Palm, Caster, and the like the better my soap lathers but it doesn't seem to set as well. Should I add a little Sodium Lactate to help with a harder bar?


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## Mistrael (Oct 18, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> Just checked out Future Primiive soap co on YT, Wow! that lady is talented, mad as a box of Frogs, which I like but talented. I'd love my soap to come out like hers one day, TBH my Olive and Coconut soap has been the only recipe that has behaved as well and set as hard as hers looks, it seems the more I add like Palm, Caster, and the like the better my soap lathers but it doesn't seem to set as well. Should I add a little Sodium Lactate to help with a harder bar?



Mad as a box of frogs!

This I have to see!


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