# Lotion Questions



## BattleGnome (Mar 25, 2017)

I just capped my second attempt at lotion making. All of 3 hours in it seems to be a success. I have done research but I still have some questions that I don't think I've come across.

1) My first lotion thickened a lot in the two weeks since I've made it. Is this common? My second lotion is currently very thin and I was wondering if someone has a source on lotion naturally thickening vs the environment (it is rather dry here). I don't mind a thin lotion but I was planning on sending some to my mom and it might effect shipping.

2) Do I absolutely need to heat my oil phase and water phase separately? I use "heat and hold" and have looked at recipes that rely on the microwave. In every recipe I've looked at the two phases are kept separate until, what SwiftyCraftyMonkey refers to as, "that magic moment." Is there science to that or is it just in case of human error when measuring?

3) Is there a database of reccomended colorant useage? I added micas to help differentiate the lotions but used less than 15cc scoops. I know the micas I used are skin safe and acceptable for making makeups but there doesn't seem to be much information about saturation levels before you start leaving streaks on your skin. Does anyone have a guideline similar to soap fragrancing where I can use x-amount of mica per 1 ounce of lotion?

Thanks in advanced.


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## Arimara (Mar 25, 2017)

Food coloring would actually have been a better choice. It's liquid, it could slightly tint the lotion, it's cheaper than micas, and you not have been limited to the color of ingredient. But that's probably just opinion there. 

I've read that you did not have to heat and hold in separate containers and some here do not. I like to use two containers for control's sake, so to speak.

Lastly, did you use the same recipe for your batches? did you use a higher amount of butters?


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## BattleGnome (Mar 25, 2017)

I did not use the same recipe. My gut reaction is to say that the coconut oil in the first batch solidified fully and that the same won't happen with the second batch. I also used more water in the second batch. I don't mind the thin lotion, it has a very nice feel on my hands, I'm trying to learn how a lotion "cures" (for lack of a better term). 

(I also went overboard with mica samples a few months ago and have quite a few that aren't CP friendly)


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## DeeAnna (Mar 25, 2017)

Lotion does change somewhat in the first day or two, but I can't think of any lotion I've made that has markedly changed several weeks after it was made. But then I'm comparing my lotions and what's in them to your lotion, about which I know nothing. It would be good if you'd post the recipe, because I think the specific recipe you're using may be the reason why you're having issues.


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## Dorymae (Mar 25, 2017)

In my experience lotions will thicken upon cooling, but do not thicken over time unless they are not bottled immediately. If they are left out, or in wide mouth containers there can be some evaporation of water which will cause thickening. The thickness of a lotion is determined by the amount of water in a recipe. A recipe with 80% water will be thin. A recipe with 70% water will be the average thickness of a commercial lotion. A recipe with 60% water or less results in a thicker cream.  If lotion becomes heated after bottling it will become thinner temporarily, but should go back to its original thickness once the temperature goes back to room temp.


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## cmzaha (Mar 25, 2017)

Did you use the same emulsifier? In my experience from many experiments it can take a very small change to make a difference in texture. With emusifiers such as e-wax, soft and silky, polawax, btms-50, the more common ones, you can heat the water and oils phase together. You will need to know the total weight of your container, which includes your oil and water, and write down the number. You will still need some additional heat and held water to make up the difference after the heat and hold phase. Since the oils hold stay on top of the water there is not quite as much evaporation, so you will need to add in additional water heated and held water. Not all emulsifiers will work with this method. Trial and error. So make lots of small test batches. I also recommend using a stick blender dedicated to lotion making. 

Just changing a tiny percentage of one butter or oil or changing the butter or oil for another can have a big impact on the thickness of the lotion. I like to have some heated and held water that I pour in a disinfected measuring cup, lightly covered with a new disposable cleaning cloth and chill in the freezer. In fact I always chill a few ounces of water, subtracted from required amount of water, and use it for helping quickly chill down my lotion. I do not like to let lotion just sit and cool down at room temp, since I want to get my preservative in as soon as possible. I also cover my storage buckets with these cloths under the lid to absorb any condensation. Mine are similiar to these but I get them from Smart & Final  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018HJH454/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

In my opinion it takes a lot of testing and waiting to know if you have a stable lotion. I have a shelf full of lotion tests, some good after 6-8 months some failures within 3 months. I have found most failures have happened within 6 months. 

Also as DeeAnna mentioned, I have had them change a little in a day or two but no longer, unless they are a complete failure and decide to separate.


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## doriettefarm (Mar 25, 2017)

It would definitely help if we knew what recipe #1 looks like vs #2.  What was the difference in water amounts and did you use the same emulsifier/oils/butters in both batches?  If recipe #1 was the one I sent you in the swap, I've never noticed it thickening past the first day or 2.  Of course it will be more fluid when it's warm but usually once it cools it's as thick as it's gonna get. 

I follow Swifty's heat & hold process (oils & water in separate mason jars with lids to prevent evaporation).  It just seems like good manufacturing process to do everything possible to avoid contaminants up front along with using a proper preservative.  I'm so paranoid about my lotions and creams growing cooties that I just don't take any chances.  

As far as coloring with micas, I've only done it once with a white shimmer mica.  The recipe called for 4tsp to 64oz of lotion.  It was just enough to leave a very light sparkle on the skin.  I think for a colored mica I would probably start with half that amount and then test to see if it leaves any color behind.


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## cmzaha (Mar 25, 2017)

Dorymae said:


> In my experience lotions will thicken upon cooling, but do not thicken over time unless they are not bottled immediately. If they are left out, or in wide mouth containers there can be some evaporation of water which will cause thickening. The thickness of a lotion is determined by the amount of water in a recipe. A recipe with 80% water will be thin. A recipe with 70% water will be the average thickness of a commercial lotion. A recipe with 60% water or less results in a thicker cream.  If lotion becomes heated after bottling it will become thinner temporarily, but should go back to its original thickness once the temperature goes back to room temp.


If my lotions heat and thin out in a hot day I market they get tossed. I take no chances killing the preservative. Lotions stay in a cooler and always have back up testers. Plus I take an instant read thermometer to test temps if it is a very hot day



doriettefarm said:


> It would definitely help if we knew what recipe #1 looks like vs #2.  What was the difference in water amounts and did you use the same emulsifier/oils/butters in both batches?  If recipe #1 was the one I sent you in the swap, I've never noticed it thickening past the first day or 2.  Of course it will be more fluid when it's warm but usually once it cools it's as thick as it's gonna get.
> 
> I follow Swifty's heat & hold process (oils & water in separate mason jars with lids to prevent evaporation).  It just seems like good manufacturing process to do everything possible to avoid contaminants up front along with using a proper preservative.  I'm so paranoid about my lotions and creams growing cooties that I just don't take any chances.


Unfortunately it is quite impossible to heat and hold in closed jars when making 2-3 gallons of lotion so I have to heat and hold in a large pot, but do not put on a lid. I once again cover with a clean towel to catch condensation. My reason for the ice water or even frozen heat and held distilled water and ice batch is to hasten cool down. Plus I use 2 different preservatives with max temp differences. Also, my distilled bottles are sprayed with a commercial food safe grade disinfectant before using and I always used new bottles of distilled water. 

Please remember to research your emulsifier and see what is compatible. Some preservatives cannot be used with some emulsifiers and edta cannot be used with all emulsifiers, such as Glycerol Stearate.


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## BattleGnome (Mar 25, 2017)

I don't know how adding a recipe slipped my mind. I'm up to 3 lotions, I made the last on right before heading to bed. 

DorietteFarm, I used your recipe as a starting point but don't have most of the oils on hand.

Recipe 1:
170g water (measured before heating)
22g sunflower
11g e-wax
9g coconut oil
9g steric acid
8g olive oil
2g germaben
1g cedar and amber fragrance
Approx 7cc gold mica

Recipe 2:
192g water (measured after heating)
23g sunflower
11g e-wax
11g fractionated coconut oil
9g steric acid
7g Argan oil
2g germaben
2g lettuce FO
Approx 10cc Kelly green mica

Recipe 3:
178g water (measured before heat and hold)
32g fractionated coconut oil
12g e-wax
11g argan oil
9g steric acid
3G germaben
2g candy cane FO
Approx 20cc party pink mica

First recipe I heated and held the phases separately and did not measure my water afterwards. I bottled roughly 6oz of lotion. I only noticed how thick it was when I was getting the last of it out if on of the bottles and comparing the oils I used to SwiftyCraftyMonkey's new oil chart. 
The second recipe I measure the water after heating and was a bit heavy handed when pouring, I was aiming for 170-175g. It's perfectly wonderful lotion, just wondering about the consistency contrast. I ended up with a little less than 10oz bottled.
I heated both phases of recipe 3 together and did not measure after heating. I like the consistency but am again curious as to how it might settle after a few days. This one was almost exactly 8oz bottled. 

All recipes did use distilled water and my scale only measures to full grams. Attached is a pic of the second two recipes to demonstrate the color saturation I have right now, I don't see any sign of mica on my skin after using lotion 3 but I do tend to have redder tones on my hands.


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## redhead1226 (Mar 25, 2017)

doriettefarm said:


> As far as coloring with micas, I've only done it once with a white shimmer mica.  The recipe called for 4tsp to 64oz of lotion.  It was just enough to leave a very light sparkle on the skin.  I think for a colored mica I would probably start with half that amount and then test to see if it leaves any color behind.



I use Nuture's Vibrance line ( Purple and Pink) n my lavender body butter and the pink in some lotions, but very little as it adds the nicest shimmer.


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## redhead1226 (Mar 25, 2017)

Arimara said:


> Food coloring would actually have been a better choice. It's liquid, it could slightly tint the lotion, it's cheaper than micas, and you not have been limited to the color of ingredient. But that's probably just opinion there.



Food coloring in your lotion??


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## Obsidian (Mar 25, 2017)

I use food coloring in mine, just a drop or two is needed per bottle. Just enough to lightly tint it, I don't care for overly colorful lotions. I never color my body butter.


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## Beyond Bodie (Jan 31, 2021)

BattleGnome said:


> I don't know how adding a recipe slipped my mind. I'm up to 3 lotions, I made the last on right before heading to bed.
> 
> DorietteFarm, I used your recipe as a starting point but don't have most of the oils on hand.
> 
> ...


Hello there, I am new to this forum, as of today, I found you all just from a google search. I have been looking and looking and still have found no solution; I made some pink lotion and I used mica powder, and tons of mica is sitting at the bottom of my bottles :-( I usually use food coloring, but only for the blues, greens, and yellows... any other colors, I use mica powder, because I don't want to try to blend my own colors and then have different versions and shades every time I make a new batch. At first I tried 1 teaspoon of pink mica, and it was not even noticeable... so then I added more, still nothing, so then I added more, and now the lotion is pink, but the mica has definitely settled at the bottom in a very noticeable way :-(  how do I fix this? Or how to I not repeat this same mistake?


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