# Soap & Cosmetics Professional Association



## Lindy (Apr 6, 2013)

Do you think this is something that would benefit you if you are selling?

Here's what I'm thinking.  Over time, as we get enough members we could get Visa or one of the other major credit card companies that service both Canada & the US to get us discounted rates.  I'm also thinking gas credit cards as well and again it would need to be one that services both countries.  On top of that we could see about getting an insurance company, here we would have to split countries, to offer us benefit & life/disability insurance at group rates.  Do you see where I'm going with this?  The HSCMG has the best available for liability insurance so there would be no need to duplicate that and I do feel it would be in our best interest to have a membership there as well as with the professional association.

What are your thoughts and how much do you think would be fair to pay for membership fees?  I'm thinking that for the beginning it would be $50/year and as services become available perhaps more....

Let's discuss....


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## Moonshea Botanicals (Apr 6, 2013)

TAKE MY MONEY!.......no seriously, sign me up!


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## melstan775 (Apr 6, 2013)

What does the association do besides provid benefits? Is there a cause, is it like a lobby of some kind, or is it a professional association network?


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## 100%Natural (Apr 6, 2013)

I would really like see an organization that has more requirements than a credit card to join.  A minimum standard to meet and exceed!


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## Lindy (Apr 6, 2013)

melstan775 said:


> What does the association do besides provide benefits? Is there a cause, is it like a lobby of some kind, or is it a professional association network?



This would be more of a professional association which would be a resource center.



100%Natural said:


> I would really like see an organization that has more requirements than a credit card to join.  A minimum standard to meet and exceed!



I agree, I think that that we would need to come up with some standards since it is supposed to be a _*professional association*_ rather than simply a group of like minded individuals.  I feel the Guild fills that niche rather nicely and I do feel this should be done somewhat differently.

***********************************************

Suggestions on what the minimum qualifications should be would be great...

I believe you need to prove you have been in business for a minimum of one year with a portfolio which would include your insurance company, Chamber of Commerce membership, business license, Guild Membership and photo's of your soaps and other products would be a must.

Thoughts?​


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## melstan775 (Apr 6, 2013)

A professional association sets standards. Other then minimum requirements for membership, they usually have a mission statement of some kind and a purpose to their existence. Raising standards and providing resources and offering different levels of membership, classes or resources available only to members, that kind of thing.  Is this what you are thinking of? 

I think the suggestions you have put forth for membership are good except for the chamber of commerce membership. Not everyone wants to pay to be a member of their local chamber; there are easier and less expensive ways to market. Likewise, if someone is selling their soaps without a fictional name (ie Melissa's Soaps), they would not necessarily be required to have a business license. In NV for example you don't have to have a business license if your full name is in your business name and if you are a sole proprietor. You are required to register for a license to collect sales tax if you are selling taxable goods and services, so would that be an acceptable substitute?   I totally understand and support proving the validity of your members' business; you want professionals in a professional association.  I am just wondering how you might address cases where expected paperwork would legitimately not be there.

ETA - I just went to get a drink, and it occurs to me I'm thinking too far ahead. Maybe these are points for later discussion.


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## 100%Natural (Apr 6, 2013)

I agree with the minimum of being in business for 1 year, business license and insurance.  As for other memberships, that would dissuade me from joining.  

One suggestion that came to mind would be that each member would have to be labelling all of their products correctly and lawfully.  This would be a great way to set the true professionals apart from the 'who cares it's just a part-time hobby' folks.

One more suggestion to make it easier for start up - keep them country specific.  Labelling laws are different everywhere you go.  Perhaps once they're up and running then we could combine them into one big association.  Either that or have representatives from each country looking after their own members but still be one association.


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## 100%Natural (Apr 6, 2013)

I was just on the Guild site trying to find info about Certified Members.  It says there are 3 levels.  Does anyone know what the certification entails?  That would essentially give you a starting point for what would be required to join this one and allow you to take it steps further to set it apart from the Guild.  While I think the Guild is a great idea, anyone can join and say they're a member.  For me, that says nothing about skill and professionalism.


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## Badger (Apr 6, 2013)

I actually was looking at the HSCMG site earlier today and thinking that it might be a good way for me to get started as a business because of the fact that it provided the insurance for me and offered discounts on a lot of places that I shop at.  This is not something I would do until likely around Christmas when I would start thinking about selling my soaps.  I am of two minds about making qualifications for joining the guild.  I can understand wanting people with some experience in the guild, but at the same time making it a prerequisite that they be in business for a year would dissuade me at least from using them if I would have to already go through all the difficulty of finding another insurance agency and be in business a year, I am not sure where I would see much benefit from being in the guild.  

Now, if you were wanting people to provide a portfolio of their products and an idea of their business plan that seems reasonable.  It also seems reasonable to do some basic testing or certification to make sure that they have the basic general knowledge of making, properly labeling, and maybe marketing their product.  Hopefully, I understood all the original questions and what was brought forward since, but as someone with low income and wanting to possibly start up a future business, I would go to the guild for the services it provides.  I would not want to have to provide all those for myself for a year and then have to switch the insurance over to the guild's unless I was getting a substantial insurance break.


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## Lindy (Apr 6, 2013)

Great points all.

Regarding insurance.  I do recommend membership with the Guild to accomplish that, however Guild membership would not be a prerequisite of membership.

The reason I suggested members also being a member of their local Chamber of Commerce is that this is another indication of professionalism, however that is simply my opinion.  Chamber membership also helps us, as a profession, promote ourselves as a profession rather than hobbyists.  I think what we are looking for is to have members who are professional even if not full-time.

I so agree with the label requirements and that they be country specific, on the other hand if we are all labeling using INCI then it again sets us up as being professional.  Believe it or not INCI is not hard to work with.  Of course when we get country specific we are then talking about using the official languages.  In Canada that means English & French, I cannot speak about the US of course....

Maybe we could look at other professional organizations as to what their minimum requirements are.  Aromatherapy professional associations might be a good place to start.  I do like the idea of having both countries represented in the executive, people who do know the regs for each country.  

Someone asked about the different levels of soapmaker with the guild.  There are exams you can take to prove competency in CP & MP from beginner to expert to master.  It is worth trying the tests on line to see where you stand.  They have recommended study info too.

Perhaps we need to start a master document with what we feel needs to be requirements to be a member of the Professional Association.


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## 100%Natural (Apr 7, 2013)

It will also need to be beneficial to the members.  The Canadian team can work on discounts from Canadian suppliers and make sure that everyone throughout the entire association can use it too.  I haven't looked into the Guild enough to know where the discounts are for.  

Their insurance sounds great.  I may be signing up.

At first it might be a small group but that can work well for awhile.  The more, the merrier though!


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## 100%Natural (Apr 7, 2013)

I'm already not qualified to join..lol.  Made me laugh outloud.  

It will give me something to work towards!


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## melstan775 (Apr 7, 2013)

100%Natural said:


> I'm already not qualified to join..lol.  Made me laugh outloud.
> 
> It will give me something to work towards!



Why are you not qualified to join? Also I like your suggestion about country-specific and proper labeling. I thought about that too, but I put a big post that I realized was too far ahead. Good thinking !


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## Lindy (Apr 7, 2013)

Melstan unlike the Guild the Association would be for professionals who have been selling for at least a year.  That allows each member some experience as a business when they join the Association.  Does that make sense?  A year in business allows you to start to understand what it is to run a business and believe me when I tell you that you never quit learning.

Where the Association would be different is that it would be strictly for professionals where the Guild is for everyone.  The Guild teaches you how to make soap with their tutorials and exams, the Association would be during workshops on how to sell person to person, in a trade show setting, business to business as well as have some basic templates available for catalogues and the like.

I don't think it is being exclusive in that anyone who has been in business at least a year, and proof would be required through Business Licenses etc., would be able to join.

I really, really hope no-one is thinking this is snobbish and if you think it is then please, PM me and if there is too much offense taken then I'll just drop it....


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## 100%Natural (Apr 7, 2013)

Melstan - I've had my business license since July 2012, but won't be officially selling for another month or two. Hence I'm not qualified..lol.  I'm goal orientated so this works great for me.  

Lindy - The whole point of a Professional Association is to have minimum requirements.  It's not snobbish at all.  Having higher standards is what will get this taken seriously by people.   I don't mean to slam the Guild at all because I think it's a great group, but the reason I haven't joined is simple - anyone and everyone can join - newbies and pros alike.  To me having a membership there isn't a selling feature, but having to pass tests and meet certain criteria to become a member of a truly professional group is.  Of course the average customer wouldn't know what the association is about, but given the chance, I'd explain it to them.  

As for it coming across as snobbish, *you can't please everyone* when you're dealing with this type of thing.  Again, I'm not qualified yet, but don't feel it's snobbish at all.


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## Lindy (Apr 7, 2013)

Thank you 100%Natural, I know that I can come off that way.  It is simply I tend to speak my mind and I am so protective of our industry.  Okay I'm going to come up with a list of ideas that I'll post in a few days and then maybe we ca brainstorm....

I really appreciate the support!


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## 100%Natural (Apr 7, 2013)

Lindy, you're welcome!  To run an association like this it takes someone with a strong backbone and who isn't worried about offending anyone with the requirements.  As for you speaking your mind - I have never read anything of yours that is even slightly disrespectful.  There's a difference between standing your ground and belittling someone.

Protecting this industry would be a great start to a mission statement.  A government partnership could prove effective.  No clue on how any of that would work though.

There have been a few soapers in my area that I would call 'fly-by-nighters'.  They make a good batch, start selling and then realize they've made errors in recipe formulation etc.  After speaking with a few of their customers it turns out they have done damage to the industry by selling inferior products.  These customers are now reluctant to try handcrafted soap again.  

Honestly though - How awesome would it be to pass all of the testing, get your certification and be able to say that you meet or exceed serious guidelines?


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## Lindy (Apr 7, 2013)

Thank you...


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## Mommysoaper (Apr 11, 2013)

Wow.  Sounds like a great idea but also like a lot of work to establish something like that.  I'm with 100%natural in that I wouldn't qualify, but it does give something to strive for.  I have been debating whether to take the HCSG certification tests or not too.  I would like too, but not sure what the advantage would be other than learning, which is great, but I am already learning alot on my own and not sure if it's worth it to pay to take a test to be certified.  Just by looking on the guild's site, it doesn't look like many people take advantage of the certification.  makes me wonder why?

Anyway, I would love to hear more about the organization you are thinking of developing Lindy.  Sounds ambitious but great potential for professional, business oriented soapers.


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## Lindy (Apr 11, 2013)

Hey Mommysoaper....  still trying to figure it out in my head.  I think basing it on another professional association such as *THIS ONE*would be a great starting point.  The challenge is that we don't have any schools set up to properly train people in soap, lotions and other areas.  Perhaps if we had approved trainers that would work.  Not sure...


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## Koshka (Apr 11, 2013)

I'm so in!
Great idea!


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## christinak (Apr 11, 2013)

I also would not qualify but I still think it's an awesome idea!


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## The Soap Lady (Apr 13, 2013)

100%Natural said:


> I agree with the minimum of being in business for 1 year, business license and insurance.  As for other memberships, that would dissuade me from joining.
> 
> One suggestion that came to mind would be that each member would have to be labelling all of their products correctly and lawfully.  This would be a great way to set the true professionals apart from the 'who cares it's just a part-time hobby' folks.
> 
> One more suggestion to make it easier for start up - keep them country specific.  Labelling laws are different everywhere you go.  Perhaps once they're up and running then we could combine them into one big association.  Either that or have representatives from each country looking after their own members but still be one association.


................................
I totally agree with what is stated above


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