# Help with LS



## madison (Feb 18, 2016)

This is my first time making LS, I am using the grated bar soap method with 100% CO, 0 SF, no FO or any additives. 
I am using this calculator http://summerbeemeadow.com/content/advanced-calculator-solid-cream-or-liquid-soaps I like to learn how to use it even though this is my first attempt in making LS and this calc. is for advanced soapers. 
I am using organic Barlean’s CO from Sam’s; I didn’t like it for cooking so I decided just to use it for soap making. 
I plugged 90 % the purity of KOH and 10 % for NaOH, and then I got 3.68 oz of KOH to use and 0.41 oz for the NaOH. Water 12.28 oz. 
I need help to clarify some points for me please.
Does the size of the grated bar soap matter? Is there any rule of thumb to follow?
What am I supposed to do with 0.41 oz of NaOH? 
How to add citric acid as a chelator?
Thank you in advance.


----------



## cmzaha (Feb 18, 2016)

Have you made any soap before? I would highly recommend you get a good handle on making bar soap and using the calculators before attempting liquid soap. You do not need to use grated soap when making ls, it will be fine without it. Are you following a Catherine Failor recipe by chance? I know she mentions it somewhere in her Liquid Soapmaking Book. Or at least I think I remember reading it. A 100% coconut ls is not real pleasant to use but the paste makes a great cleaner as does 100% coconut soap whether bar soap or LS


----------



## IrishLass (Feb 18, 2016)

Hi Madison! Please excuse my confusion, but your term 'grated bar soap method' is throwing me off a little. The 'grated bar method' is when one takes a bar of regular soap, grates it up, and then mixes it with water which makes a sort of liquidy goop which is not anywhere as nice as real liquid soap made from scratch. Is it your desire to make that, or to make a true liquid soap from scratch via oils/water/koh that saponifies to a paste, which is then diluted with water to make liquid soap? The two are not the same.


IrishLass


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 18, 2016)

I get the impression your recipe is confusing to you. I'm not surprised because it's confusing to me too. It sounds like you're using a more complicated two-lye method (KOH and a little bit of NaOH) AND you're adding grated bar soap for some yet to be determined reason AND you're making a soap that would normally be used for household cleaning, laundry, or dish washing rather than for bathing.

"...90 % the purity of KOH and 10 % for NaOH..."

Don't confuse lye purity with relative amounts of the two lyes. You're creating a recipe that has both lyes in a 90:10 proportion. Purity of each lye is another matter entirely. SMB doesn't let you change the default purity settings for the lyes, only the relative amounts.

Susie sometimes adds a little bit of grated NaOH soap to her liquid soap batter to help it come to trace quicker. Is that what you mean? If so, it doesn't take much and with a coconut oil soap, it's not really necessary because CO comes to trace easily without any help. What reference are you using that is suggesting this addition?

If you want a 100% coconut oil soap to get rid of the CO you don't like, that's fair enough. But why not make a simpler recipe that will be just as good? ALL KOH. No grated bar soap. And we need to see your recipe in weights, please, to double check your calculations.

As far as sodium citrate, we can help with that too, but let's get the basics figured out first?


----------



## madison (Feb 18, 2016)

Sorry guys for the confusion. Making LS is a big challenge for me, here is the story, I have several tutorials about making LS, one of them is making LS using a grated homemade bar of soap, it’s on the y-tube and there is one whole thread about it here on the forum. I chose this method because I felt it’s the easiest for me as first attempt. I chose the CO because I wanted to start with single oil to keep things simple so I don’t get too frustrated when things go wrong, and for cleaning purposes. I want to feel that making LS is not as hard so I am cheating a little bit to help myself to feel good. 
I do have my own handmade bars of soap, I started making my own soap in 2012 when I got some skin problems, I don’t make soap every day though, it’s only a hobby. I use only 3-4 oils maximum, I like to make hard long lasting bars of soap only and I keep things simple. Before I started making soap using NaOH, I tried grating soap bars to make liquid soap and it turned out terrible, I know the only way to make LS is to use KOH.
I have always used the soap Calc. so I am not used to SBM Calc. this is why I am confused about the numbers of NaOH and KOH.


----------



## madison (Feb 18, 2016)

DeeAnna said:


> Don't confuse lye purity with relative amounts of the two lyes. You're creating a recipe that has both lyes in a 90:10 proportion. Purity of each lye is another matter entirely. SMB doesn't let you change the default purity settings for the lyes, only the relative amounts.
> 
> That what happened, I did confuse them, I thought that the 90% and 10 % are for the purity and NaOH is related to the amount that is in the bar soap , the 10% seemed inaccurate to me.
> 
> ...


Thank you, that will be good.


----------



## Seawolfe (Feb 18, 2016)

Youre mixing cake with soup in a way 

There are many tutorials online that say you can make liquid soap from grated bar soap. You really cant - its a snotty gloppy mess.

But you can make perfectly good liquid soap using the same oils you use for soap making and KOH instead of NaOH. There are some recipes that recommend a few grams of grated bar soap be added to speed the trace of the liquid soap along, but in those cases the bar soap is really just a catalyst. It's not necessary, just a bit of help along. I'll let the liquid soap queens chime in, but some threads here that helped me a lot were:

Susies easy CP liquid soap thread: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49852
The huge Liquid Soap from soapmaking 101 thread: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46114
And IrishLass's fabulous thread on making LS with glycerin: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=57974


----------



## madison (Feb 18, 2016)

Seawolfe said:


> There are many tutorials online that say you can make liquid soap from grated bar soap. You really cant - its a snotty gloppy mess.


 
I was saying the same thing, my trials turned out terrible; I attempted that before I felt brave enough to use NaOH to make my own bars of soap. Thank you for the links, I read them all when I searched the forum, I found Susie's tutorial the fastest and easiest. I feel lost in the huge 101 liquid soap thread though; I get my head hurting when I read it


----------



## Seawolfe (Feb 18, 2016)

It helped when I realized that liquid soap is made just like hot process soap, but with KOH (unless it's Susie's recipe, but that's still pretty warm). This gives you soap paste (which I store as paste until needed). Then you dilute. The first dilution is a bit of a pain because it's trial and error. But after that you know the dilution ratio for that recipe.

Share the recipe you want to try and people here will help.


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 18, 2016)

And then there is Brewer George's plaintive request for a short n sweet version of LS making and all of our answers to his plea -- http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=58377


----------



## topofmurrayhill (Feb 19, 2016)

FYI she is talking about a Failor technique. The principle is that sodium soap combined with potassium soap dramatically increases lather and foaming. This can be used to good effect making bubble bath or in whatever soap you want to make. She considered the making of a combination soap from scratch too difficult for the book because of issues with the emulsion or whatever, so she talks about grated bar soap being used at 2 to 8 oz ppo as an additive if desired. The technique is to fully dissolve the sodium soap in hot water and combine with the caustic before adding to the oils. Actually it sounds fairly clever.


----------



## IrishLass (Feb 19, 2016)

Thank you, TOMH! You've solved the mystery! I just dusted off my Failor book and had a look, and yep- sure enough- she explains it on page 81.  


IrishLass


----------



## topofmurrayhill (Feb 19, 2016)

IrishLass said:


> Thank you, TOMH! You've solved the mystery! I just dusted off my Failor book and had a look, and yep- sure enough- she explains it on page 81.



To me Failor is awesome.


----------



## madison (Feb 19, 2016)

Seawolfe said:


> It helped when I realized that liquid soap is made just like hot process soap, but with KOH (unless it's Susie's recipe, but that's still pretty warm). This gives you soap paste (which I store as paste until needed). Then you dilute. The first dilution is a bit of a pain because it's trial and error. But after that you know the dilution ratio for that recipe.
> 
> Share the recipe you want to try and people here will help.



Thank you for the hints, I'll share my work with you guys, I need your help 


DeeAnna said:


> And then there is Brewer George's plaintive request for a short n sweet version of LS making and all of our answers to his plea -- http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=58377



That is a great thread, thank you DeeAnna. You made it easier for me, in the back of my mind I always thought that the soap calc isn't that good to calculate LS portions, so I was frustrated with SBM. Now I can use the soap calc since my KOH purity is 90%.I still like to learn how the SBM calc works.


topofmurrayhill said:


> FYI she is talking about a Failor technique. The principle is that sodium soap combined with potassium soap dramatically increases lather and foaming. This can be used to good effect making bubble bath or in whatever soap you want to make. She considered the making of a combination soap from scratch too difficult for the book because of issues with the emulsion or whatever, so she talks about grated bar soap being used at 2 to 8 oz ppo as an additive if desired. The technique is to fully dissolve the sodium soap in hot water and combine with the caustic before adding to the oils. Actually it sounds fairly clever.



I feel more courage to try this method after reading your post, thank you for bringing this up. I am happy  that it was mentioned in Failor's book.
IrishLass 

I am willing to try your both recipes of LS, I have them printed out. I have been studying them for some time. Thank you for your time and effort to share your recipes with us.


----------



## Susie (Feb 19, 2016)

Please don't try a Failor recipe until you have tried the much easier methods on this forum!  She was awesome in her time, but we have good lye calculators now.  I would hate for you to get scared off of liquid soapmaking before you ever get started!

If you are using SoapCalc.net, just add enough extra water to give you a 1:3 ratio.  

That gives me the following recipe:

0% superfat (for a household/laundry soap)
CO 16 oz
KOH 4.57 oz
Water 13.61 oz


----------



## topofmurrayhill (Feb 20, 2016)

Susie said:


> Please don't try a Failor recipe until you have tried the much easier methods on this forum!  She was awesome in her time, but we have good lye calculators now.  I would hate for you to get scared off of liquid soapmaking before you ever get started!
> 
> If you are using SoapCalc.net, just add enough extra water to give you a 1:3 ratio.
> 
> ...



I don't disagree with your recommendation for what to try first. Here we have a recipe, extensive step by step instructions, and a predictable outcome. People will do what they want, but it's a good suggestion.

However, I disagree with the implication that we are doing something so modern and new, with Failor relegated to "her day." Failor was ahead of her time and we have barely caught up.

Her day is today. The glycerine method is actually just a small twist on facilitating saponification with solvents. Using glycerin is easy and convenient, but solvent methods for making soap are nothing new. Her books are all about it. She has one in both her Liquid and Transparent books, and she explains why it works. The exact same explanation applies to glycerin.

It's nice to have an easy and reliable cookbook method, but if you want to really learn about liquid soap she is still the place to go. She knows what she is talking about. There's lots of good information, along with principles and methods many people don't know. Lots of examples of that besides using sodium soap as an additive. Knowledge is power.

Lye calculators don't seem relevant to me. People didn't do the math any differently before we had them. Failor is using different SAP values than SoapCalc, but neither set is right or wrong. I have my own also. They are only a guesstimate, so we rely on the errors to even out or at least not to exceed our lye discount.

I bet you can tell she is my hero.


----------



## Susie (Feb 20, 2016)

She was WAY ahead of her time.  I found loads and loads of valuable information in her book.  You will never hear me say that she does not have good solid information in there!

However, her "lye excess then neutralize/sequester/clarify" method with all it's many steps is confusing for newbies and simply unnecessary to achieve good soap.  Truly.  Again, we have good lye calculators now that allow us to set our superfat and get the correct amount of lye needed to saponify our oils.  She is also fixated on absolutely clear soap.  I really don't care if mine is clear, as long as there is no separation.

And the way the book is laid out is a complete nightmare to someone who is a linear thinker.  My brain needs information presented to it in steps (First you do this, then you do that, then that, etc).  Her steps are all in there, but not in any sort of order for someone like me.  

Having said all of that, I will say that Catherine Failor developed methods that put liquid soapmaking into the hands of small soapers for the first time ever.  AND she was kind enough to put the information in a book to share!  She was truly revolutionary!  

You will also notice that I said not to try it *first*.  I did not say not to try it *ever*.  I have used quite a few of her recipes, just ran them through a lye calculator so that I could skip all the neutralization/sequestration/clarification steps.


----------



## madison (Feb 20, 2016)

topofmurrayhill said:


> Lye calculators don't seem relevant to me. People didn't do the math any differently before we had them.)



 Since I learned about soap calc I always felt that I love to learn how to do the math by hand, I          know this sounds really crazy.


----------



## madison (Feb 20, 2016)

Susie said:


> Please don't try a Failor recipe until you have tried the much easier methods on this forum!  She was awesome in her time, but we have good lye calculators now.  I would hate for you to get scared off of liquid soapmaking before you ever get started!
> 
> If you are using SoapCyou thinkc.net, just add enough extra water to give you a 1:3 ratio.
> 
> ...



Susie,  I am not going to try the whole thing,  it's very hard for me,  I meant the little part of adding some grated soap to a simple one oil recipe. By the way thanks for the suggestion,  do you think it's ok to add some grated soap since the CO comes to trace fast? Did you use sbm calc as you did in your CPLS thread? Do you think you would like to help me out about using it?


----------



## madison (Feb 20, 2016)

I am getting an error on the view recipe button in soapcalc page. Is this happening with someone else or only in my phone? My phone is windows and not compatible with a lot of things.


----------



## Susie (Feb 20, 2016)

I routinely use a dab of liquid soap paste or 0.5 oz grated soap to kick start trace in my household liquid soaps.  Works a charm.  I use glycerin to speed trace in bar soap.  I use SBM (not advanced) or Soapee.com for a calculator.


----------



## topofmurrayhill (Feb 20, 2016)

Susie said:


> She was WAY ahead of her time.  I found loads and loads of valuable information in her book.  You will never hear me say that she does not have good solid information in there!



Yes, I agree with your whole post and didn't mean to get overly passionate about it. Forgive me if anything came off wrong.

On a technical note, people sometimes don't appreciate that we are flying blind when it comes to how much caustic to use. Our lye calculators do the same math Failor did. All we can really say about setting a 0% superfat or thereabouts is that it works, which is a good point.

We aren't really doing anything more precise though. In the transparent soap book she was aiming for 0% superfat and her numbers agree with Soapcalc.


----------



## madison (Feb 20, 2016)

I made the first batch of LS using 0.5oz of grated handmade bar soap, I didn’t want to go higher with CO.  I used the recipe that Susie suggested CO 16 oz, KOH 4.54 oz, Water 13.61 oz, 25% lye concentration. The whole process went really fast, no more than 30 min. and I was done. No zapping after one hour, the sb was taffy. I diluted it using half of its weight water, it wasn’t as thick as I thought, it was very easy to dilute. I washed some of my dishes with it; it cleans very well; however it leaves slightly some residue probably because the grated soap was a bar made of OO and CO. I am not happy with the residue on the dishes so I am more eager now  to go with DeeAnna’s  Suggestions to use 1/3 water and 2/3 glycerin for the next batch, I’ll leave the rest of my CO LS that I made today for washing whites.
Susie, is there a specific grated bars that you use to kick start trace in your LS? Have you ever got any residue on your dishes?


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 20, 2016)

Residue ... as in grease not being fully removed? Or soap scum? Or ???


----------



## madison (Feb 20, 2016)

It's very similar to what I got when I tried plain grated bar of soap dissolved with water from the bloggers who used to claim that it worked great for them. I tried that before using NaOH to make my own bars of soap.


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 20, 2016)

I hear that you have seen this before, but I still don't know what specifically it is that you are seeing. Can you describe what it is in terms of words like greasy film, streaks, white coating, or ????


----------



## Susie (Feb 20, 2016)

I had some 100% CO 0% SF bars I use as stain sticks that I use. I also use other 100% CO 0% SF liquid soap paste for the same purpose.  It just kicks trace into gear without stickblending for a long time.  This batch may be the batch you save to start other batches. 

I am with DeeAnna, though, you should not see residue.  Any possibility of a pic?


----------



## madison (Feb 20, 2016)

It's like light coating. I'll give it more time then try it again. The diluted portion  in the jar looks clear now after three hours. 
Looks like we were posting at the same time. I am trying to attach the pictures from my phone, it's not working so far. I'll try something else.


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 20, 2016)

I've seen soap scum residue when using lye soap to wash dishes and my water softener is low on salt. It's especially obvious on translucent plastic containers as a white film that doesn't feel greasy and sticks tenaciously to the plastic. It is created when any lye soap, whether bar or liquid, reacts with "hard water" minerals in tap water. The scum is insoluble calcium and magnesium soaps that form that stubborn white film. Solution is to use soft water. A chelator such as citrate or EDTA can help a lot too. Without more info, it's hard to say if this is your problem, but it's one possibility.


----------



## madison (Feb 21, 2016)

Actually I got a lot of scum residue as well, I know using chelator will help as my water here is very hard. By the way, how do I use chelator in the next batch? Is there any way I can use it with my current paste?


----------



## Susie (Feb 21, 2016)

I can't help.  I have never lived with hard water.


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 21, 2016)

I have only used tetrasodium EDTA when making my bar and liquid soaps. I only have a small bit of personal experience with using citrate. 

General threads on citric acid use in soap:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=53035
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=53330

I have added some homemade citrate solution (made per Galaxy's method, below) to diluted LS, and I can't say that was a success. The citrate turned the diluted soap milky white and "broke" the soap. Commercial citrate may give different results, because citrate can have several chemical forms, and it's likely that homemade citrate is slightly different than commercial. My thought is homemade citrate may work better if added to the soap batter when making LS paste or bar soap. Here's more discussion on this: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=56643&page=2 

Galaxy's thread on making citrate at home from baking soda and citric acid: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=55723


----------



## IrishLass (Feb 21, 2016)

I use a 39% Tetrasodium EDTA solution when I dilute portions of my paste. I just add the EDTA solution to the dilution water. The rate at which I use it equals out to being .5% of the weight of my finished/diluted liquid soap. 

It doesn't eliminate 100% of the scum, but it does cut it down quite a bit.


IrishLass


----------



## madison (Feb 23, 2016)

DeeAnna said:


> I've seen soap scum residue when using lye soap to wash dishes and my water softener is low on salt. It's especially obvious on translucent plastic containers as a white film that doesn't feel greasy and sticks tenaciously to the plastic. It is created when any lye soap, whether bar or liquid, reacts with "hard water" minerals in tap water. The scum is insoluble calcium and magnesium soaps that form that stubborn white film. Solution is to use soft water. A chelator such as citrate or EDTA can help a lot too. Without more info, it's hard to say if this is your problem, but it's one possibility.


 
Thank you DeeAnna. I am not sure now if the problem was a scum or not. I had what I call the tearful water look on my stainless steel and glass utensils; I didn’t use it on any plastic tools. They had that same look as they dried out. When I use the syndet detergent my utensils usually look clear after rinsing them, then I air dry them and they look clear, neat with no water tears. I think what will determine whether it was a scum or something else is using the right chelator agent/ agents that work for the specific metals in my water.


----------



## madison (Feb 23, 2016)

IrishLass said:


> I use a 39% Tetrasodium EDTA solution when I dilute portions of my paste. I just add the EDTA solution to the dilution water. The rate at which I use it equals out to being .5% of the weight of my finished/diluted liquid soap.
> 
> It doesn't eliminate 100% of the scum, but it does cut it down quite a bit.
> 
> ...


 

Thank you IL. I think this will be the ideal solution for the rest of my paste. I have Tetrasodium EDTA on my list to order already. Would you like sharing how you get the solution of 39%, please?


----------



## madison (Feb 23, 2016)

DeeAnna said:


> I have only used tetrasodium EDTA when making my bar and liquid soaps. I only have a small bit of personal experience with using citrate.
> 
> General threads on citric acid use in soap:
> http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=53035
> ...


 

Thank you for the links. What do you mean by “broke” the soap?
I didn’t find any info about using c/a for dilution; instead I found information about just adding it to the batch oils. In this case do I need to take the step of adding the extra amount of lye that is going to be neutralized by c/a? 
As an experiment, I tried to add c/a to the water at the dilution stage. I diluted 1 part of water to 3.6 parts of paste, I got a very creamy texture with a white lovely pearl color and it worked great for my bathtubs and sinks but not for the dishes. It helped a little with the scum but not as much. I uploaded the pic. 
I have a question regarding using your method of 1/3 water and 2/3 glycerin, does the water brings the temperature to the lye high enough that I don’t have to use heat when adding the glycerin?


----------



## madison (Feb 23, 2016)

*pictures*

The first one is the diluted LS one hour after I made the paste. The second pic was taken a couple of hours later. The third pic was taken 24 hours later. Today I have the top layer thinner with lighter color of the liquid at the bottom. I diluted 2 parts of paste for 1 part of water, and then last night I was experimenting, I got a thicker texture by diluting 1 part of water to 3.6 parts of paste, it was perfect to my liking.
I don’t know why I got the 2 layers, is that because of the dilution rate?


----------



## IrishLass (Feb 23, 2016)

madison said:


> Thank you IL. I think this will be the ideal solution for the rest of my paste. I have Tetrasodium EDTA on my list to order already. Would you like sharing how you get the solution of 39%, please?


 
The easiest thing I've found to help me calculate how much water is needed to turn my EDTA powder into a 39% solution is to go to the RiverCity calculator here:http://rivercitysoaps.com/dwcp/watercalc.php

Once there, what I do is this: In the 'Weight of Lye' box, I type in how much powdered Tetrasodium EDTA I wish to dilute. Next, in the 'Desired Solution Strength' box, I type in 39, and then I click on 'Compute'. The amount of water needed for my solution will then show up in the 'Water Needed" box. 

I normally make enough of a master-batch solution to fill a 12 oz. HDPE bottle with a flip-top for easy dispensing, which lasts me through several batches of soap. 

*Edited to add* in case I misunderstood your question and you were wondering why 39%, specifically. That's the magic amount of water needed to keep the EDTA in a dissolved state without it precipitating out of suspension.


IrishLass


----------



## madison (Feb 24, 2016)

DeeAnna said:


> I have only used tetrasodium EDTA when making my bar and liquid soaps. I only have a small bit of personal experience with using citrate.
> 
> General threads on citric acid use in soap:
> http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=53035
> ...


 
DeeAnna, I have just realized that I forgot to mention that I'll be using the technique of adding the s/a to the sb  as mentioned in the threads above in another 
LS experiment. I was so far trying to experiment with the paste that I have already made. Thank you for taking the time and effort to help me.


----------



## madison (Feb 24, 2016)

IrishLass said:


> The easiest thing I've found to help me calculate how much water is needed to turn my EDTA powder into a 39% solution is to go to the RiverCity calculator here:http://rivercitysoaps.com/dwcp/watercalc.php
> 
> Once there, what I do is this: In the 'Weight of Lye' box, I type in how much powdered Tetrasodium EDTA I wish to dilute. Next, in the 'Desired Solution Strength' box, I type in 39, and then I click on 'Compute'. The amount of water needed for my solution will then show up in the 'Water Needed" box.
> 
> ...


   I will try it when I get my order of EDTA. Everything you mentioned is helpful. Thank you for sharing.


----------



## Susie (Feb 24, 2016)

madison said:


> Thank you for the links. What do you mean by “broke” the soap?



If you add too much acid to a liquid soap, you will separate the fatty acids from the lye/water solution.  Doing so "breaks" the soap into it's component parts.



madison said:


> I have a question regarding using your method of 1/3 water and 2/3 glycerin, does the water brings the temperature to the lye high enough that I don’t have to use heat when adding the glycerin?



If you add the lye to the water, you do not need to heat the glycerin.  Heat is only used as a catalyst to dissolve the KOH in the glycerin.  KOH readily dissolves in water.  This is why many of us use this method.


----------



## madison (Feb 25, 2016)

Thank you Susie, that is helpful.


----------



## topofmurrayhill (Feb 25, 2016)

madison said:


> I will try it when I get my order of EDTA. Everything you mentioned is helpful. Thank you for sharing.



You might as well know how to do it arithmetically also. It's not hard.

*Scenario 1*
You want to make a certain amount of solution, let's say 8 oz, and want to know how much EDTA and water to use.

EDTA is 0.39 x 8 = *3.12 oz*

Water is 0.61 x 8 = *4.88 oz*

The total is 8 oz.

*Scenario 2*
You have a certain amount of EDTA, let's say 4 oz, and want to know how much water to add for a 39% solution.

Water is (4 / 0.39) - 4 = *6.26 oz*


----------



## madison (Mar 1, 2016)

topofmurrayhill said:


> You might as well know how to do it arithmetically also. It's not hard.
> 
> *Scenario 1*
> You want to make a certain amount of solution, let's say 8 oz, and want to know how much EDTA and water to use.
> ...


Thank you  topofmurrayhill  , I just saw your reply and I like it. I don't have much time to check on the forum more often this is why I didn't see it until now.


----------

