# Essential oils price



## Beth (Feb 21, 2020)

I need help... 
I used to buy a certified organic soap made with organic essential oils before I started to make my own. I used to pay $7 for each 3.05 oz bar for that organic soap. 
I was checking the price of organic essential oils (bulk price), and I don’t see how that company (a small company) can sell their soaps for $7 and have a profit from it. 
Is there anyone that is getting organic essential oils cheaper than I could not find? 
The cheapest ylang-ylang I found was at least $6 per ounce, which makes almost a dollar for EO in each bar.


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## cmzaha (Feb 21, 2020)

The biggest problem is a lot of soap sellers especially new sellers do not calculate their costs properly and actually lose money. The other issue is the fact they flat out do not tell the truth, who is going to prove whether they use organic or not. Also by the time lye is done organic does not make much difference in soap since nothing bad is going to survive the caustic properties of the lye. Organic is always going to cost more.


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## shunt2011 (Feb 22, 2020)

I agree with cmzaha.  I also question if they are actually telling the truth in a lot of cases.  I see people making the same claims and selling for less than me.


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## soapmaker (Feb 22, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> Also by the time lye is done organic does not make much difference in soap since nothing bad is going to survive the caustic properties of the lye.



Also most likely not much good!


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## TheGecko (Feb 22, 2020)

Beth said:


> I need help...
> I used to buy a certified organic soap made with organic essential oils before I started to make my own. I used to pay $7 for each 3.05 oz bar for that organic soap.
> I was checking the price of organic essential oils (bulk price), and I don’t see how that company (a small company) can sell their soaps for $7 and have a profit from it.
> Is there anyone that is getting organic essential oils cheaper than I could not find?
> The cheapest ylang-ylang I found was at least $6 per ounce, which makes almost a dollar for EO in each bar.



You're assuming that they are adding xx amount of EO to xx amount of oil and/or they are only making xx pounds of that soap and/or they are only buying it in xx quantities.  

You're also not considering how much they are paying for their soap ingredients.  My main ingredients are Olive, Coconut, Palm and Castor Oils, and Cocoa and Shea Butters.  My costs in the beginning, purchasing in small quantities (seven lbs for the first three, one pounds for the last) was $4.61 per pound or 10 4 oz bars for $0.92; my costs today is $0.68 (I could get it $0.60 if I had more storage room in my garage) and lower yet if I went to 3.5 oz bars.  This of course, doesn't include the cost of Sodium Hydroxide, Distilled Water, Sodium Lactate, Kaolin Clay and shipping...and my time and overhead.

So...your Ylang-Ylang at $6.00 per oz at .32 oz PPO (medium scent) would add $1.92 to a 4 oz bar.  So $1.00 for ingredients, $2.00 for time and overhead, $2.00 for fragrance...that's $5.00; sell for $7.00  (profit would be higher if I went with a 3.5 or 3.0 bar).


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## Vgurer (Feb 22, 2020)

I keep my precious EOs for myself, I first mix them with 0.5 gr of silicon oxide (for 10gr of EO), hoping that this will lengthen the CP period. I am reading whatever I find on micro or nano encapsulation. So far, my pure lavendula angustifolio essential oil from southern france dissapeared within 8 weeks  , in CP experiment, meanwhile, the one imbibed with the silicon dioxide still reserves some scent. But CP is not the way to use EOs, may be cheaper FOs are better for CP soaps. IMHO.


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## Beth (Feb 23, 2020)

TheGecko said:


> You're assuming that they are adding xx amount of EO to xx amount of oil and/or they are only making xx pounds of that soap and/or they are only buying it in xx quantities.
> 
> You're also not considering how much they are paying for their soap ingredients.  My main ingredients are Olive, Coconut, Palm and Castor Oils, and Cocoa and Shea Butters.  My costs in the beginning, purchasing in small quantities (seven lbs for the first three, one pounds for the last) was $4.61 per pound or 10 4 oz bars for $0.92; my costs today is $0.68 (I could get it $0.60 if I had more storage room in my garage) and lower yet if I went to 3.5 oz bars.  This of course, doesn't include the cost of Sodium Hydroxide, Distilled Water, Sodium Lactate, Kaolin Clay and shipping...and my time and overhead.
> 
> So...your Ylang-Ylang at $6.00 per oz at .32 oz PPO (medium scent) would add $1.92 to a 4 oz bar.  So $1.00 for ingredients, $2.00 for time and overhead, $2.00 for fragrance...that's $5.00; sell for $7.00  (profit would be higher if I went with a 3.5 or 3.0 bar).



I do too buy my ingredients in bulk, and like you I would get cheaper if I had more storage space. My final $$/PPO is $5.06 (counting NaOH, and I do not use palm oil), so I would get 1.26 for a 4oz bar. But to get the Ylang-ylang that cheap, I would need to buy at least 25 pounds of EO. I use my EOs ratio at 3%/PPO, so it would be $3. 
Adding the price of ingredients and EO, my total price would be $4.26. 
Regardless, the percentage for overhead costs plus profit is too low. I guess I need to keep myself away from Ylang-Ylang.



Vgurer said:


> I keep my precious EOs for myself, I first mix them with 0.5 gr of silicon oxide (for 10gr of EO), hoping that this will lengthen the CP period. I am reading whatever I find on micro or nano encapsulation. So far, my pure lavendula angustifolio essential oil from southern france dissapeared within 8 weeks  , in CP experiment, meanwhile, the one imbibed with the silicon dioxide still reserves some scent. But CP is not the way to use EOs, may be cheaper FOs are better for CP soaps. IMHO.



Lucky me that some of my peeps prefer unscented soap. I use young living EO for personal use, and I tried to make a soap using “stress away” with no results. Have you tried mixing your EOs with Diatomaceous Earth? I read that it hold the EO well; however I have not used yet in soaps. I used in my deodorant, and the scent is holding well.



cmzaha said:


> The biggest problem is a lot of soap sellers especially new sellers do not calculate their costs properly and actually lose money. The other issue is the fact they flat out do not tell the truth, who is going to prove whether they use organic or not. Also by the time lye is done organic does not make much difference in soap since nothing bad is going to survive the caustic properties of the lye. Organic is always going to cost more.



This person sells soap for years, and it was interesting to see him making soap on Utube. He doesn’t disclose the EOs he uses as he disclosed it as “proprietary blend.” 
But you are right, I still in the production phase of my soap business, and I just finished a marketing/sales course. I would calculate my price wrong if I didn’t take that course. 
And thanks for the reminder that nothing survives the causticity of the NoOH.


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## Sony Sasankan (Feb 23, 2020)

Beth said:


> I used to buy a certified organic soap made with organic essential oils before I started to make my own.



Organic only matters when you are ingesting them. Most countries have certifications for labeling organic only for edible items. Calling a cosmetic / soap organic is just plain weird.... and having a certification for it is even weirder. Is this in US? Who certifies cosmetics to be organic? I can understand marking something as paraben free, sulphate free, etc.



Beth said:


> The cheapest ylang-ylang I found was at least $6 per ounce, which makes almost a dollar for EO in each bar.



Making in bulk, you cannot use retail prices for calculations. If you meet exporters' / wholesalers' minimum quantity requirements (Usually from Brazil / India / China), the prices can drastically go down. For example a 25KG barrel of Ylang Ylang EO can go for just 670 - 830 USD. That's approx 0.75 - 0.95 USD per ounce! Similarly a 50Kg sack (110 lb) of pure lye will be 35 - 40 USD. Oil prices are cheap too, but vary greatly by what's regionally used for cooking. For example Sunflower oil and Coconut oil is quite common in India and are exported quite a lot. Sunflower Oil will be about 1 USD per Litre (about 3.8 USD / Gallon) and Coconut oil will be a little lower than 2 USD per Litre (about 7.6 USD per Gallon). Rice bran oil is about the same price as Sunflower Oil, but Olive oil is insanely expensive as its not produced there and is usually imported from Spain / Greece. So when making homemade soaps in bulk (lol... the irony in that statement) it becomes ridiculously cheap... Ingredients alone will not go over 0.35 - 0.4 USD for a 3 oz bar.


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## TheGecko (Feb 23, 2020)

Beth said:


> Regardless, the percentage for overhead costs plus profit is too low. I guess I need to keep myself away from Ylang-Ylang.



Or you put it in a "luxury" bar and charge a little more.  Or you can take a hit on a few bars if you are making a good PM on the rest.  

I charge the same price for my English Rose soap that I charge for my Lemon Sherbet even though the latter costs me more because it's make with an EO instead of a FO.  I also charge the same price for my single color Regular Soaps that I do for my two or three colors soaps even though it takes me longer to make a two or three color soap.  And I charge the same price for Goat Milk Soap that I do for my Regular Soap even though there are differences between the ingredients.  It all works out in the wash.

Now I do/will have different prices for my Sea Salt Soap, my "Trade" soap and my Children's and "Travel" soap, and I am still working on my "luxury" soaps.

Bottom line...don't be stuck on having xx PM.


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## Beth (Feb 23, 2020)

Sony Sasankan said:


> Organic only matters when you are ingesting them. Most countries have certifications for labeling organic only for edible items. Calling a cosmetic / soap organic is just plain weird.... and having a certification for it is even weirder. Is this in US? Who certifies cosmetics to be organic? I can understand marking something as paraben free, sulphate free, etc.
> 
> lol. Yes!! It is not USA, West coast to be more precise. The idea behind “certified organic” is that a person is sure the product is made with at least 95% natural. And the majority of soaps I see are certified by Oregon Tilth.
> 
> ...


I’m not sure what you mean about “making soap in bulk“, but I was talking about “buying ingredients in bulk.” And yes, buying directly from suppliers/exporters makes it cheaper. Do you have any good supplier/exporter where you live? 
I’m going to Brazil next year to meet an exporter from there.


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## Sony Sasankan (Feb 23, 2020)

Beth said:


> The idea behind “certified organic” is that a person is sure the product is made with at least 95% natural. And the majority of soaps I see are certified by Oregon Tilth.


Just checked out Oregon Tilth. They themselves say Organic certification is limited to agricultural or agriculturally-based products. I think its more of a branding / labeling / reassurance thing than an actual certification.



Beth said:


> I’m not sure what you mean about “making soap in bulk“, but I was talking about “buying ingredients in bulk.” And yes, buying directly from suppliers/exporters makes it cheaper. Do you have any good supplier/exporter where you live?
> I’m going to Brazil next year to meet an exporter from there.


Yes, I meant buying ingredients in bulk... which kinda leads to making soaps in bulk usually  If you are looking to source Ingredients from India (where I'm from), Indiamart is a good place to start. Its like an Alibaba of India, with exporters listing their products on the platform. The prices are usually outdated and they are usually not very keen on having an online presence (so no standalone websites for most of them). But they do respond to queries about prices, MOQ, etc. 

Some of the more convenient "online buying" websites that I've used here are:
https://soapytwist.com/
https://candlemould.com/
https://www.avinaturals.com/
https://www.vedaoils.com/

They do mention selling in wholesale and internationally as well. But I have not verified those claims. I've made small domestic purchases through them and they are legit.


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## Beth (Feb 24, 2020)

Sony Sasankan said:


> Just checked out Oregon Tilth. They themselves say Organic certification is limited to agricultural or agriculturally-based products. I think its more of a branding / labeling / reassurance thing than an actual certification.
> 
> 
> Yes, I meant buying ingredients in bulk... which kinda leads to making soaps in bulk usually  If you are looking to source Ingredients from India (where I'm from), Indiamart is a good place to start. Its like an Alibaba of India, with exporters listing their products on the platform. The prices are usually outdated and they are usually not very keen on having an online presence (so no standalone websites for most of them). But they do respond to queries about prices, MOQ, etc.
> ...


Thanks @SonySasankan. I will check them. 
About the Oregon Tilth... it’s a cultural thing.  Have you ever heard of toilet paper made of recycled paper and organic? Yup, we do have one of those. I think it’s just a way of being sure what we are using is indeed natural, free of chemicals.


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