# Feeding your dog raw meat



## dagmar88 (Nov 21, 2009)

After reading so many things and advises about his subjest on the web, I decided to make this as a reference for myself. 
Also, my husband was very hasitant about the raw food; so I printed it out'and he'd be able to understand why I wanted to feed our puppy raw.
 8) Did convince him and now he's telling every single dog owner he meets of charlie's diet. Most of them just think DH is crazy   

*Why raw?*

When we think of dry doog food we envision fresh grains, whole chicken and pieces of red meat. 
Meanwhile, the truth couldn't be much further from the images shown to us by commercial dogfood companies.
In reality, meat of deseased animals and animals that didn't make it to the slaughter house, cut off cancerous growths, spoiled grains and loads of other by products of large firms are processed into dog and catfood.
It is a hugely profitable way for them to dispose of waste.



			
				http://www.bornfreeusa.org/facts.php?more=1&p=359 said:
			
		

> Fancy Feast, Alpo, Friskies, Mighty Dog, Dog Chow, Cat Chow, Puppy Chow, Kitten Chow, Beneful, One, ProPlan, DeliCat, HiPro, Kit’n’Kaboodle, Tender Vittles, Purina Veterinary Diets are owned by Nesté
> 
> MeowMix, Gravy Train, Kibbles ’n Bits, Wagwells, 9Lives, Cycle, Skippy, Nature’s Recipe, and pet treats Milk Bone, Pup-Peroni, Snausages, MontePounce, are owned by del Monte
> 
> ...



*Even 'good' dry foods are unnatural to a dog. *

To produce kibble a paste is heated to high temperatures. 
During this process the kibble gets sterile and most valuable vitamins are destroyed.
Because the kibble is practically bacteria free, both the digestive and defense system of the dog tend to get lazy.
Also, the destroyed vitamins and minerals need to be replaced out of an unnatural source.
as a result, the immune system of the dog will deteriorate.
Raw meat and bones contain the perfect amounts of vitamins and minerals, enzymes and quality protein for your dog.

Kibble contains a high percentage of cereal waste products; making it rich in carbohydrates. Not only will these carbohydrates make your dog fat, it will make him/her smell bad and will contribute to tartar build up (bad breath!). Vet’s see more and more younger dogs (under 5 years of age) with serious dental problems. 
This is not how it should be and can even shorten the life span of your pet. He’ll need to be under narcosis to clean up tartar or to pull teeth.

Dog's teeth before and after, after just days of eating raw meat









People often forget, but men's best friend still has the identical digestive tract as the wolf.
Looking at the teeth of your dog; you'll see he is carnivorous.
This means he should be tearing off large pieces of meat and crunching bones. This will act as a natural toothbrush.

skull of a wolf:





skull of an Airedale terrier:





_*All animals in nature eat raw, so you don't have to be scared your dog will get sick. (though you have to be careful with older dogs; eating meat is more demanding of their digestive system and could trigger organ failure. If you want to feed natural, let your vet run some blood test to make sure it's safe!)
*A dog can not digest raw meat and kibble at the same time. The stomach needs a different PH to deal with either one of them._

*Benefits of eating natural:*
Cleaner teeth and gums, better breath, shiny & healthy coat and skin, little shedding, muscles of the jaw and neck develop better, pups grow 'slow' and steady. A lot of raw feeding pet owners claim they need less visits to the vet and their dogs live longer; but Charlie’s only 6 months so I really couldn't say that  :wink: 






*A well thought-out consists of:*

*Muscle meat
*Raw bones
*Organ meat
*Fish

And when you like:

*Vegetables & Fruits
*Supplements

_(To, or not to give fruit, veggies and/or supplements is a BIG and confusing discussion under raw feeders. Some say the alpha male an female of a wolf pack immediately go for the stomach of an animal after the kill; and therefore eat veggies and fruit. 
Others say a wolf expert has observed them shaking the stomach to empty it before consuming; so they do nod need fruit & veggies.
My though: both groups have lovely healthy pets, so I just give Charlie fruits and veggies cause she enjoys them…)_

*Muscle meat*

Muscle meat are all muscles of the pray. The muscles cover the skeleton and provide stability. Muscle meats forms the lion share of the dogs menu. 
Examples are: steak, simmering meat, chicken breast, and all sorts of meat trimmings.
Those meat trimmings are what is left over after the butcher cut off all frayed edges and fat from our meat. They’re very cheap and an excellent source of muscle meat.
They’re often available at the local abattoir or at any (Islamic) butcher that prepares his own wares.






*RMB, or raw meaty bones*

Fleshy bones are given because of their high nutritional value. They contain high levels of calcium, vitamins, minerals and essential fatty acids.
When we speak of meaty bones, we assume it is 50% bone and 50%. Not all bones meet up to this requirement. In that case you can give some extra muscle meat. 
The opposite works too; did your dog just have a muscle meat meal, then you can give a bare bone.
Suitable meaty bones are: (carcasses of) hare, rabbit, chicken and other poultry (watch out with turkey, they have though and sharp bones, not for every dog), ribs of a calf, lamb, goat, sheep/dear heads, and many more.







*Organ meat*

Provide as much as possible variation (different animals and organs). Each organ has it’s own unique nutritional values.
Organ meat is: liver, throat, testicles, eyes, longs, spleen, kidney, brain, stomach and green, unwashed and unbleached tripe (yum!).
To maintain a good balance, liver and kidney should be 5% of all meats.
You can cut up all these different organs to little chunks, mix them and freeze them in, in suitable portions.
Giving the organs after a meal with a lot of bone will make sure sensitive dogs don’t get diarrhea.

*Unprocessed tripe makes one meal per week, or 1 day per two weeks. Tripe contains loads of beneficial bacteria and digestive enzymes. It is tough therefore really good for a dogs teeth. (I know you won’t believe me right now, but it actually takes bad breath away)
When you give tripe, you can let your dog decide how much he wants. Charlie eats about 800 grams, and that’s the only meal she’ll get that day.
*all organs, exept for tripe, are laxatives. So always give in small quantities.
*Some see heart and tongue as muscles, others think their build up is closer to organ meat. Both agree you can give these two more often than other organ meats.






*Fish*

Fish is a good and healthy part of the raw menu. When eaten raw, the fish bones will remain quite soft. Both whole fish and fish head are considered a complete meal.
When your dog eats fat fish once to twice a week, there’s no need to give fish oil supplements. Fat fish provides (essential) omega oils, that have a positive effect on the dog’s hormones, joint, immune system, metabolism and brain, skin and coat.
Fat fish are: mackerel, herring, salmon, sprat, eel, halibut, sardines, trout, etc.






*Vegetables & fruit*

Although some people consider it unnatural for a dog to eat fruit & veggies; it surely won’t hurt.  Some people make juice of fresh raw veggies and fruit with a stick blender; but we just give Charlie fruits and veggies she likes. She’d kill for a pear!
The people who do like to feed their dog veggies & fruit prefer leafy greens. Cabbages should only be given in small amounts, cause they make dogs gassy.

*Supplements.*

Using supplements is not for everyone. Some use aloe vera, shiitake, dried alfalfa, seaweeds and kelp, or calcium and vitamins, plus a range of oils like wheat germ oil and coconut oil. 
Have to say I do not give Charlie any of these supplements so you should research them yourself if you want to.
Normally the dog gets everything he needs from his diet. 
A lot of people do give raw eggs, yoghurt and kefir (the non alcoholic type). 
Eggs are a good source of protein. you can grind the eggshells to a fine powder and mix it through some meat for extra calcium. 
Dairy like yoghurt and kefir is definitely not a required part of the diet, but a lot of dogs like it and some think it has useful bacteria for the bowels. 
Garlic is often used (depending on the size of the dog 1 or two teaspoons a week) to repel flees and ticks.
I just forgot to give Charlie Garlic and now we do have flees for the first time ever…







*Putting together a healthy diet*

To put a good menu together, you have to follow some basic lines.
about every pray of the wolf has the same proportion between muscle meat, bone and organs.
When you stick roughly to this, you'll be fine:
50 to 60% of muscle meat
15% of organ
10 to 20% of bone

*I have to say, we were really strict when we just started out, with a week planning and everything   Now we just load Charlie's freezer (300 liter, bought at an online auction for 50 euro) chockfull with all sorts of meat. Just as diverse as possible, rabbit, hare, chicken legs, carcass and one day chicks, duck, turkey, quail, pigeon, lamb, dear and goat, horse and zebra, cow & calf, salmon, mackerel and trout. 
Everything is delivered to us by a great company (cheap an quality) to our door, deeply frozen per KG.
Next to that we chop up a bunch of diverse organs from different species and freeze those in small amounts.*

_*Whole preys, such as one day chicks, mice and rats or fish make a complete meal.
*As a guideline of how much to feed, a normal dog eats about 2% of is own body weight. An active adult needs around 3% and puppies can eat between 5 and 10% of their weight.
*de only animal that is not recommended to feed is wild boar or pig; as they could be contaminated with Aujeszky disease. By eating contaminated meat, your dog or cat could get infected; which will always lead t death.
*Feeding raw meat does not increase the chances of getting worms. If worm eggs would be present in the meat, the gastric juices would almost immediately kill them._

*What your dog shouldn’t eat*

*Processed bones. Cooked, smoked, grilled or otherwise heated bones change of structure. They will no longer be flexible and will splinter, resulting in stomach perforations. Same for fish-bones.
*load baring bones (like bones and joints from cows legs), especially from big adult animals are to tough and can cause wearing and breaking of your dog’s teeth.
*With dogs that tend ‘inhale’ their food; be careful not to offer small bones. 
*Chocolate contains the substance Theobromine. This is poisonous to dogs and cats and in larger quantities it can have consequences between diarrhea and death.
*Unions, chives, leeks or other members of the allium family should be avoided, because they cause anemia. Garlic, though in small amounts, is an exception; because of its benefits.
*Grapes and raisins can cause kidney failure; although scientists do not know why yet.
*Kernels of apples and other fruits contain hydrocyanic acid that is poisonous in large quantities.
*Dogs get sick from eating macadamia nuts.

Further more, no unripe tomatoes or other members of the nightshade family like egg plants and paprika, uncooked potatoes, avocado, a partial raw egg (egg white and yolk keep each other in balance), udder meat, milk sediment, corn and corn on the cob, alcoholic beverages and coffee, as well as wild meat and fish that hasn’t been in the freezer.

*Sometimes dog scan throw up pieces of bone that were to hard to digest. This doesn’t have to be a problem; but if he starts throwing up after eating one specific species, it’s best to exclude it from the menu.
*When giving the dog wild meat (or fish), put it in the freezer for a couple of days to eliminate parasites.
*Does your dog have white, chalky poop? He’s eating too much bone. 


*Abstinence*

A pack of wolves catch a bigger prey every so often. On these occasions they eat as much as possible. Instinctively, a wolf will not eat anything the next day, or days. This will prevent accumulation of meat in the gastro-intestinal tract. It will give the tract some rest so it can get rid of harmful substances such as parasites. 
Also, when a dog takes a day of abstinence regularly; he will be more energetic and get a smaller waistline.  
When you let your dog abstain from a meal; you can give him a larger meal the day before the abstinence day.
A dog can abstain one or two times a week easily. A puppy can abstain 3 half days a month and 1 full day after being weaned. 

*We plan a tripe day before the abstinence day.
*Dogs that eat kibble can not abstain. This may cause their stomach to turn.

pics:
www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com
mywebsite.register.com/db1/00076/hairycows.biz
http://www.rawmeatybones.com/
http://www.rawdogranch.com/
http://www.barfclub.nl (Dutch)

And at last I wanted to say; although I know enough to feed my dog I am not an expert. 
Dog food companies want to make you think feeding your pet is rocket science and no person without a scientific background can give their pets what they need. 
This is absolutely not true; once you start with some basic information and you get the hang of it you'll find out how simple it really is.
You might think, what is this all going to cost me? Shop wisely and you'll pay a lot less than you do for 'decent' dry food.
There are companies specialised in this that offer real good stuff for a low price.
We got Charlie as a skinny puppy with constant red dyed diarrhea, flakey skin, dull fur, and behavioural problems. 
Within 2 weeks she turned into a well balanced, sturdy, muscular and happy puppy with the most shiny fur we've ever seen!

At Ian, adult cats are real hard to convert to raw food. We tried, but 3 out of 4 refuse to eat and cats can't abstain so there's no way to push them towards eating it.
Those 3 get the best possible quality of dry and canned food.
Ramses however LOVES meat and always has. His favorite is quail, little pieces of chicken, minced beef and one day chicks; but he's into fish too. the last one he especially enjoys to play with for hours  :roll: 
He'd kill for chicken stomachs and can eat up to 3 of them at once   Growls to other cats who dare to look at his 'catch'. Makes the wild animal come out of them; real cool to see!


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## Manda (Nov 21, 2009)

Wow - that is a fantastic amount of information you have put together dagmar and so useful!  Thank you so much for posting it!

I don't have a dog (at the moment) but I do have a cat and this has got me very interested in looking at improving her diet.  The only raw meat we feed her is a couple of chicken wings a week, which she goes crazy for, and the rest of the time it's canned fishy wet food.

I will print out your post as there is so much information to 'digest' and I'm not too good on remembering stuff!  I will also share it with my partner's parents as they have a doggy who mainly just eats dog roll.  :wink: 

Thanks again!!


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## Tabitha (Nov 21, 2009)

That makes so much sense. That is the sort of thing you hit yourslef in the head & say "why didn't I think of that?"


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## ChrissyB (Nov 21, 2009)

Bravo Dagmar
I only have a cat, no dog, but my cat only eats raw meat. I give him a couple of chicken wings a week that he loves, but every other meal is raw kangaroo mince. I have fed him this diet the whole time that I have had him.
He has never had any problems of any kind, he gets the occasional furball but that's cos he's a big fluffy beast.
I only buy organic fruits, vege and meats in my house for the most part, so my cat's diet is basically just an extension of ours. I don't like over processed food for anybody. And dry biscuit food....don't even get me started on that rubbish.   :twisted:


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## dagmar88 (Nov 22, 2009)

ChrissyB said:
			
		

> I only buy organic fruits, vege and meats in my house for the most part, so my cat's diet is basically just an extension of ours. I don't like over processed food for anybody. And dry biscuit food....don't even get me started on that rubbish.   :twisted:



We eat organic too! So it only made sense and still does looking at Charlie & Ramses.

Thank you girls for your nice comments


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## Rosey (Nov 22, 2009)

The most common mistake people make is not getting the proper diet together. You have to make sure that you are supplying everything they need without all the crap in dog food.

My dogs LOVE raw chicken and since they are big dogs, they can have the raw bones. Phoebe doesn't know what to do with them but Teegan just chomps. I don't feed it often as skinning the breasts does take a while (trying to save money here!)

I have heard good things about the BARF diet. 

It's a great article dagmar!


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## Deda (Nov 22, 2009)

Thanks, Dagmar.

I'm going to talk to Noah's vet next week.  I'd love for him to start eating a healthier diet in the New Year.  I hope at his advanced age he'll be able to handle it the change.

This is my Puppers, Noah.


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## dagmar88 (Nov 22, 2009)

Don't expect your vet to be all exited  :wink: 
What a cute face


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## Rosey (Nov 22, 2009)

lol  that's so true, vets are rarely excited about raw.


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## Manda (Nov 22, 2009)

Noah looks like a big sweetie and beautiful photos, Deda!


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## ewepootoo (Nov 23, 2009)

My Labrador gets entire rabbits that I pick up after they run under the wheels of my car or if they are freshish looking I will pick up bunnies killed earlier on. 
My dog is so healthy and shiny he glows in the dark, he eats everything including the fur and for some reason leaves the head till last.


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## ChrissyB (Nov 23, 2009)

I'm not a fan of rabbit myself, I've noticed that in my local Woolworths they are selling goat and rabbit in the meat department. Not for me.
But Steve, obviously good for your dog!

BTW Steve, I was just wondering if you have read those books "Wouldn't be Dead for Quids", the main character was Les Norton? And he worked as a bouncer at a night club at Bondi or Manly and he was an ex footy player.


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## ewepootoo (Nov 24, 2009)

Hi Chris, I have not read those books but "Wouldn't be dead for Quid's" sounds right up my alley, I will see if it's an Ebook as I never seem to find time to go to the library these days. A professional shooter came through here the other day and he told me he gets $6 a pair for his bunnies when he sells them to the wholesaler in the city, my guess is they are a heap dearer than that in the supermarket. If I want a rabbit I can just lean out my kitchen window and shoot one as there is so many around.


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## Bubbles Galore (Nov 25, 2009)

It's their natural diet. Good stuff Dagmar. Thanks for that. 

Turn away now if you're easily shocked but an old work colleague had a partner who started a new job at a pet food factory. Part of his job was to go to different veterinary practises and pick up corpses (of dogs, cats etc) and these corpses were added to the big pot of meats to go into the pet food. He only lasted a few days before quitting.

I discovered my dog likes strawberries the other day. That was a surprise.


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## dagmar88 (Nov 25, 2009)

I know; but things like that are not allowed to be produced here in Europe; that's why I feed my cats a quality Dutch brand instead of an American one...
And they don't even take off the (flea) collars of the animals...
No wonder so many pets (ALL my previous dogs) die of cancer!


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## Rosey (Nov 25, 2009)

my dog loves green beans! I use them to train from time to time.


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## ChrissyB (Nov 25, 2009)

That's awful about the corpses going in the pet food. I've heard horror stories but they're sort of like "urban myths", you don't really know if they're true. 
Blerch.... :shock: 
Steve, find those books, you'd love them. They are Australian, and very much so, in the way they are written. I thought of them because (without giving away too much), the main character lives next door to this guy who's dog is always giving him trouble, well the main guys dog is used to finding his own food in the bush, so one day Les (main guy) puts his dog over the fence and says "you deal with this dog, I've had enough", and his dog (maybe a pitty, or something?) gets over the fence and *eats* this neighbours huge german shepherd. The guy gets over the fence and has to clean up all the blood and fur before his neighbour comes home and finds out what happened to his dog.
This is a fictional story, just wanted to add that!!


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## ewepootoo (Nov 25, 2009)

Australia is a beaut place to be a dog but one of the worst places to be a dairy cow, a major source of pet food. In order for cows to give milk they must be having calves, in Australia as you drive around the dairy districts you will often see a red flag at the gateway to a dairy farm. This tells the truck driver that there are 4 day old mostly bull calves to be picked up for slaughter. He weighs the calves which from memory must be at least 23kg's and have a dry umbilical cord.When these calves are taken from their mother she will be distraught for up to a week. These calves recieve nothing to drink until such time as they are killed as they know of no other food source than their mother. I have bought many of these calves over the years before they were put on the truck and grew them out to over 800 kg's before they went to Macca's. Australia is possibly the only country where they kill calves at 4 days old rather than grow them out.
Hi Chris, I have bid on that book on Ebay and I will see how I go. Steve.


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## kittywings (Nov 25, 2009)

Those stories make me so sad.... I haven't eaten mammals since 1992, when I read "The Jungle" by Upton Sinclair.   I also just read another book all about the beef industry and the horrifying practices (fiction, but it had a lot of research behind it).    It's all so horrifying!

We buy our dog this special organic food with no fillers, etc. but I want to do the raw thing too.  I DO feed him raw chicken scraps and dog o.k. veggies on occasion... I didn't know about the unripe tomatoes thing, he helped himself to our partially ripe tomatoes in the garden a few months ago... EVERY SINGLE ONE... the jerk!  One of our cats (they get fancy food too, though they still manage to throw up here and there... I think it's the fluffy beast situation here too)... helps himself to chicken whenever we have it out.   You literally will take it out of the freezer and 10 seconds later he'd there trying to bust into the bag!  I can't tell you how many times we'll turn around and be missing chicken and sure enough he's off in a corner with a huge piece of chicken hanging out of his mouth!


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## ChrissyB (Nov 25, 2009)

Shannon, my cat does the same thing. I have to put anything to that out inside the microwave so he can't get to it. I've lost many many kilo's of chicken to my cat stealing it. Oh well at least he ate well that night!!
I only buy organic chicken and it's really expensive, and I can't afford for the cat to eat the breast meat!! He gets the wings, and though they are organic too, they are a lot cheaper!
I think in any industry, there are always going to be "horror stories" about how the food is prepared, or what goes in to it, or whatever.
We don't eat out a lot, mainly because I know how clean my kitchen is, I can't vouch for the kitchen in a restaurant, and some of the chef's that I see are *always* sweaty, and that just skeeves me out.
My ex used to work at KFC when we were young, and he used to come home with "oh you won't believe what goes in the potato and gravy" or "don't ever eat the chicken" blah blah blah, but he still eats it to this day so it can't have been that bad.


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## dagmar88 (Nov 26, 2009)

ChrissyB said:
			
		

> Shannon, my cat does the same thing. I have to put anything to that out inside the microwave so he can't get to it. I've lost many many kilo's of chicken to my cat stealing it. Oh well at least he ate well that night!!



Over here, it's the same   On Christmas morning Ramses (who is 8 pounds himself) stole our 8 pound turkey and chewed big chunks off... We didn't have anything else, so DH rinsed the turkey and our christmas dinner didn't look as good as we thought it would that night   

My grandpa worked at a huge European food company till a couple of years ago. When he started to work there the things that would go into snacks were horrific and he wouldn't even touch them himself. Years later and with decent laws he enjoys those food a lot...


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## kittywings (Nov 26, 2009)

ChrissyB said:
			
		

> My ex used to work at KFC when we were young, and he used to come home with "oh you won't believe what goes in the potato and gravy" or "don't ever eat the chicken" blah blah blah, but he still eats it to this day so it can't have been that bad.



I've worked at a million restaurants and luckily I've never seen anything that would keep me from eating at them... then again I tend to have worked at swankier places.  The other day, I was pleasantly surprised to find that all the veggies we get are organic.  I also see a lot of tongs and gloves used.


I used to bring home sushi from work for my toothless cat, Ted (the sushi chefs would give me their scraps).  I was concerned about the amount of mercury, but he was ill anyway so I figured, might as well bring some joy to him.  We normally would mush the fish up for him, but when I had octopus with me he would NAIL IT!  I was hilarious.  Who knew?


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