# Mad Oils Stopping Selling Small Sizes



## snappyllama

Guys, I am beyond bummed out. Mad Oils sent an email saying that they are expanding their mica and colorant lines. To make room, they will only be carrying fragrances in 25lb amounts except three times a year when they will sell them in 1lb sizes.

NOOOOOO!

Some of my absolute favorites come from MO, but the most I ever, ever, ever purchase is 4oz since I like to try a lot of new things and make small batches. Really, I normally buy micas from them as an afterthought when I'm restocking FOs. Sigh.


Here's their email text:


We have amazing news for 2017!  Mad Oils was voted #1 in the country in 2016 for Best Supplier: Micas and Pigments by Modern Soapmaking Online Magazine. We’re proud of that, considering that we started as a fragrance company!  We are excited to tell you we will be expanding our mica line and introducing new glitter and colorants, including Bath Bomb Colorants. This year we are going to blow your mind with new chroma... So, get ready because the train has already left the station!

What about those fragrances we adore? Easy kittens, they’re not going away completely. We will simply be offering them in a different way than we have been.  We will no longer stock fragrances in-house. We will be offering them in our permanent catalog in 25 lb. sizes 365 days per year. Three times a year, during our MOFO (Mad Oils Fragrance Oils) Frenzy Events (which will be scheduled), we will offer all our fragrances in 16 oz sizes. These MOFO Events will be like Pre-Buys. This just means you will need to plan ahead to make sure you are never without those fragrances that you have grown to love.

As we expand our color catalog, we need to make room for our new inventory of colors.  This means that ALL remaining sizes of FOs we have in stock must go…NOW. 

Keep your eyes open for more detailed information about the new colors and the upcoming schedule of when they'll arrive and how the MOFO Frenzy Events will be run and scheduled.  The first MOFO Frenzy Event will be on April 1st this year, so hurry and get what you think you'll need to sustain you until then!  When the ones in stock are gone, they are gone until April 1st (unless you buy 25 lbs.).

We can’t tell you how excited we are about these changes.  Our heads are spinning with the possibilities. We will be bringing you the highest quality colorants to enhance and stimulate your creativity, to delight and motivate you and to drive you WILD!  We’re mad I tell you, mad about colors!

We love you!  Thank you for your continued support and enthusiasm.

Join us on this exciting journey, when, before your very eyes, Mad Oils becomes MAD MICAS !


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## dibbles

I feel the same. Even though there are quite a few of their FOs I really like, the only one I think I will order 16 oz of is Snow Witch. I might pick up a couple of others while they are available in smaller quantities, but I'm like you - micas were an add on for me. Looks like I'll be searching out some replacements for the others.


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## newbie

I saw that as well. I'm wondering what Mad Oils is bringing on. 

I just bought my first FO's from mad oils and I really like their Snow Witch. tried Spanish Fly last night and still have to decide how much I like it, but it worked super well in low water and that's a big asset. I haven't tried many other scents so looks like I may as well stop before I find something I love intensely.


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## makemineirish

I was fairly annoyed at this myself.  I am okay with buying 16oz and can probably even plan for their MOFO events.  However, I have to KNOW that I already love a fragrance to commit to that much.  I'll be forced to become an MO distributor...buying 25lb of cult favorites to part out to interested forum members.
:headbanging:


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## jules92207

Really disappointed, I just got my first FO order from them and was excited to try them out but I don't typically buy lb at a time, especially when I am not 100% sure I already love it.

I've been so happy with Nurture colors I will likely just stick with them now.


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## doriettefarm

I got the email too and my first thought was 'gee I'm glad I'm not hooked on any of their FOs'.  Second thought was they could really be shooting themselves in the foot and lose a lot of business from soapers that are just hobbyists.  The FOs I'm willing to buy a whole pound of are few and far between.  Hopefully Carrie will swoop in to fill the void (hint hint).


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## cmzaha

Not sure how they expect anyone to foot the bill for 25lbs which would be $500 plus. They might find themselves sitting on it for a long while


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## earlene

Well that's really sad, but I placed an order to get some of the smaller sizes in stock right now.  Some are sold out, but if you want smaller sizes now is the time to jump on it.


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## jackbenimble

Darn- I have been hearing about Snow Witch and a few others I wanted to order. What a bummer !


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## maya

I went and looked. A bunch are still available in small sizes. <3 But it is really frustrating when suppliers change stuff around. It hurts sometimes.


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## Cosmo

newbie said:


> I saw that as well. I believe a number of their micas are the exact same as Nurture's line and Nurture is always cheaper when I've looked. I'm wondering what Mad Oils is bringing on.
> 
> I just bought my first FO's from mad oils and I really like their Snow Witch. tried Spanish Fly last night and still have to decide how much I like it, but it worked super well in low water and that's a big asset. I haven't tried many other scents so looks like I may as well stop before I find something I love intensely.
> 
> Maybe we can convince Carrie to pick up the best of the same MO FO's and sell them normally!



Let me know what you want, and I'll make it happen! There's no way that most soapers can afford 25 pound sizes, or even 16 ounce sizes when available. We can bring on the smaller sizes of these fragrances year 'round if enough people want us to.


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## Donna

This is a bummer.

There are certain FO's that I really like from MO.  I will usually order a 2-4 oz. to try and if I like it, will order 8 oz., but as a hobbyist huge quantities
are out of the question.
As others have stated, the colorants I order are usually add ons.
Perhaps MO is tired of catering to the hobby soap makers.
On the bright side, many of us who have been making soap "forever" did just fine before Mad Oils appeared on the scene.
Although I love their products and service, I think we will survive!


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## dibbles

As a hobby soap maker it takes a long time to get through 16 ounces anything - especially since I seem to always have a LOT of 2-4 ounce bottles of FO for 'research'.


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## Cosmo

dibbles said:


> Carrie you are the best! Seriously, the best. Snow Witch is one of my all time favorites, as well as the absolute favorite of my son and several other people.
> My other picks would be Arabian Nights, Vanilla Milk and maybe Elderflower.
> 
> As a hobby soap maker it takes a long time to get through 16 ounces anything - especially since I seem to always have a LOT of 2-4 ounce bottles of FO for 'research'.



Dibbles, our Winter Wonderland fragrance oil is identical to Snow Witch.


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## doriettefarm

YES!  This is going to make a lot of folks very happy.  I'm with dibbles on the Vanilla Milk and Elderflower plus the Thai Sticky Rice sounds nice.  Thanks for looking out for us little guys, we really appreciate you Carrie


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## BeesKnees

No!!  I'm disappointed because I'd heard good things about Mad Oils and was looking forward to trying them.  There's no point in trying to order even the smaller sizes of FOs to me because why try something that I know is a limited supply item?  If I love it, then I'll have to try to find an equivalent elsewhere, which is annoying.  

I've already tried Nurture's micas (thanks to their free shipping for a purchase over $40 for colorants!) and am really enjoying them so Mad Oils' increasing their mica line isn't going to draw me in as a new customer.  It was certain FOs that I'd heard raves of MO for and was looking forward to trying them, not their micas.  From my perspective this is a shoot-themselves-in-the-foot move, but maybe it's more money to not deal with hobbyists.  There's another soap business that has moved away in recent years from selling lower quantity FOs and has gone to more teaching classes in their local area, I came across her page not long ago but am drawing a blank now.  I'm a new soaper so every company name I come across is one to check out for potential, lol.


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## Cosmo

doriettefarm said:


> YES!  This is going to make a lot of folks very happy.  I'm with dibbles on the Vanilla Milk and Elderflower plus the Thai Sticky Rice sounds nice.  Thanks for looking out for us little guys, we really appreciate you Carrie



Vanilla Milk is our Vanilla Cream. If someone would send me an ounce of Thai Sticky Rice I can have it duped and available in about a month. I've already been sent the Elderflower from another customer so we're good there.


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## mx5inpenn

The other one I know of is soapalooza. I'd never ordered from MO but had planned to try the snow witch based on reviews. I'm very happy to hear NS already has the same scent since I order there anyway. I've only purchased FO's from NS and NG other than one pre-buy that should be delivered today. I figure if I'm happy with a company, especially when its a small business, I'd rather just order from them and keep it simple if at all possible.


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## dibbles

Good to know! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!! When my (ample) supply of Snow Witch runs out I'll be ordering Winter Wonderland for sure :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:


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## dixiedragon

I kind of get not wanting to deal with samples, 2 oz, 4 oz, 8 oz, 1 lb, etc....But I would think it would be advantageous to offer, say, 2 oz sizes and then 1 lb sizes.


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## newbie

There is plenty of negative feedback on MO's buzz FB page and many people saying they are gone as customers for the most part because they come for the FO's more than colorants. I don't know if it will affect their decision.


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## dixiedragon

How about Golden Embargo?


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## Cosmo

newbie said:


> There is plenty of negative feedback on MO's buzz FB page and many people saying they are gone as customers for the most part because they come for the FO's more than colorants. I don't know if it will affect their decision, but this is a nice opportunity for Nurture!
> 
> Carrie, so Winter Wonderland is Snow Witch, you already have their Vanilla Milk as Vanilla Cream, are working on Elderflower but do you have any of their other fragrance under other names? Spanish Fly, South Beach also seem to be very popular fragrances from them.



South Beach is our 8th and Ocean, and Earl Grey tea is our Afternoon tea. The others I will have to get duped. I'm working on it right now with the fragrance lab.


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## newbie

Well, you may see a bit more business, Carrie! I just plugged you and the FO's you have on Mad Oil's FB page. We'll see if I get booted off.


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## samirish

Has anyone tried their Marzipan?  If so how did you like it and is this something available from Nurture?  So glad I read this post, I was just about to place an order with them but will look at Nurture now instead.


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## shunt2011

newbie said:


> Well, you may see a bit more business, Carrie! I just plugged you and the FO's you have on Mad Oil's FB page. We'll see if I get booted off.


 
I went over to check it out but didin't see it.   May have disappeared already or I'm just blind...

I've only ordered from them once, however, I've ordered a lot from Carrie at Nurture and will continue to support her and her business.   

I see increased business for Nurture.


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## newbie

Shunt, MO has a FB page called Mad Oils Buzz and that's where so many people are talking about this change. It's different from their main business page. I only once ordered FO's from Mad oils and that just recently so I drooped a bit that I like what I've tried so far but knowing I can the FO's elsewhere is good. I always go to Nurture for my micas. Never get from anywhere else anymore. Mad Oils is going to change their name to Mad Micas and focus on that instead of the Fo's. No idea what they have coming out as new items though.


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## doriettefarm

newbie said:


> Shunt, MO has a FB page called Mad Oils Buzz and that's where so many people are talking about this change. It's different from their main business page. I only once ordered FO's from Mad oils and that just recently so I drooped a bit that I like what I've tried so far but knowing I can the FO's elsewhere is good. I always go to Nurture for my micas. Never get from anywhere else anymore. Mad Oils is going to change their name to Mad Micas and focus on that instead of the Fo's. No idea what they have coming out as new items though.



I see you stirring the pot over there newbie   I also find it very interesting that Mad Oils hasn't responded to anyone's disappointment over this news.  Pretty sure one of their new color offerings is batch certified bath bomb colorants which Carrie already has in stock!  I'm also wondering if the new MO chroma colors are the same as Nurture's new crystal micas.


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## newbie

I'm not trying to stir the pot, really. If MO doesn't want to sell in small quantities and someone else has the same FO's and does, I think it's fine to let people know that. I'd sure as heck want to know. I'm not sure it will be appreciated by JoAnna that much but enough people are saying they can't order in that size and so their business will have to go elsewhere. I have no problems directing them to a place to go. 

I'm sure JoAnna is watching the comments but I too am surprised that she has made no comment at all. 

Someone asked if the bath bomb colorants would be batch certified but no comment from JoAnna on that either.


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## doriettefarm

newbie said:


> I'm not trying to stir the pot, really. If MO doesn't want to sell in small quantities and someone else has the same FO's and does, I think it's fine to let people know that. I'd sure as heck want to know. I'm not sure it will be appreciated by JoAnna that much but enough people are saying they can't order in that size and so their business will have to go elsewhere. I have no problems directing them to a place to go.
> 
> I'm sure JoAnna is watching the comments but I too am surprised that she has made no comment at all.
> 
> Someone asked if the bath bomb colorants would be batch certified but no comment from JoAnna on that either.



I'm just razzing you about the pot stirring   I don't see anything wrong with letting folks know there are other options for the FOs plus Nurture's prices on micas are better so I will continue to spend my $$ there.


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## Cosmo

Here is the list of fragrances we have being sent to us to duplicate so far: 


Elderflower
Lemon Unhinged
Sexy Beast
Rose Geranium
Loo Loo Shampoo
Lemon Poppy Muffin
Golden Embargo
Arabian Nights
Dragon's Blood
Cotton Candy
Grow a Pear
Marzipan
Gourmet Chocolate
Velvet Peppercorn
Powder Puff Girl
Lavender and Chamomile
Deviant
Mayan Gold
Rosebud
Orange Blossom
Spanish Fly
Pink Grapefruit
Pink Sugar
Saucy Santa
Smoke & Mirrors
Hedonic Tonic
Wild Hyacinth
Sugar Cookie Crunch
Home for the Holidays

If something isn't on the list you'd like send us an ounce and we can have it made!


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## penelopejane

25lb is a huge amount of FO. I thought it might have been a typo at first! Maybe they didn't make any money out of FOs.


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## jules92207

Cosmo said:


> Vanilla Milk is our Vanilla Cream. If someone would send me an ounce of Thai Sticky Rice I can have it duped and available in about a month. I've already been sent the Elderflower from another customer so we're good there.




Carrie you are the Bomb Diggity!! ❤❤❤


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## newbie

I would never had said anything on their page about a competitor in other circumstances. I feel like I can more legitimately when they announce a decision to not sell except in bulk and so many people are saying they can't do that and will look elsewhere. I can take razzing!

Holy mackerel!!

People will be very very pleased, I can tell you that.


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## doriettefarm

Here's the latest update from the Mad Oils Buzz group:

Thank you for all your comments and concerns regarding our decision to modify our FO availability. We hear you.
I owned a small soap business for many years. It was an art that I learned and loved with all my heart. Yes, it was a financial struggle for most of those years, but I persevered. I DO know what it’s like to be a small time soap maker. I get the struggles, the blood sweat and tears intimately.
Therefore, when Mad Oils began, we geared our products exclusively to the small businesses and hobbyists… always considering “user friendly” and ease of use for every product we offered. That’s why we only offer jars and not bags. Yes, bags are cheap and it is always the popular choice because of economics. But, we know that is sucks to get mica out of a bag. Messy, wasteful, frustrating. 
However, as with many small businesses we have to make hard choices to ensure we keep the doors open. One of those choices was to reduce our labor costs as it relates to fulfilling small FO orders on a daily basis. 
Knowing the 25 drums are hard to purchase for the smaller businesses, we took this to heart and decided that creating the MOFO Frenzy would give smaller businesses a chance to maintain their lines unscathed. Based on your comments we now understand that offering 16 oz was perhaps not enough. 
We have decided that 4 oz sizes should be included. We sadly cannot offer this year round anymore, but hope that the 4 oz and 16 oz offerings 3 times a year will give you what you need during those times. 
The schedule for MOFO Frenzy events this year will look like this (we’ve added one sooner to accommodate your needs):
February 15, 16, and 17 will be days you can purchase 4 oz and 16 oz of the FOs we carry now, as many as you want. Once the 3 days are up, we will calculate orders and purchase the FOs from the manufacturer. Once in-house, they will be bottled and shipped to you.
Then on April 1, 2 and 3 we will do another MOFO Frenzy and then another one on September 8th, 9th and 10th. 
We understand that this news is difficult for some of you. But we hope you, as business owners, understand we have to do this. Please support us in this decision. It was not an easy one, but we could not be more excited about the future and the path that we are on.
Karyn and I have come a long way with you. Both being single parents with children with special needs, we do our best to stay positive, be the best that we can be and persevere. We aren’t going anywhere. We dedicate this company to you and all the makers out there. 
XOXO 
Jo


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## dibbles

Cosmo said:


> Vanilla Milk is our Vanilla Cream. If someone would send me an ounce of Thai Sticky Rice I can have it duped and available in about a month. I've already been sent the Elderflower from another customer so we're good there.



I don't have Thai Sticky Rice, but I do have Arabian Nights. I wasn't one of the multitude that likes it on its own, but it is such a great blender. If you are interested in it, send me a PM and let me know how much to send.


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## Cosmo

dibbles said:


> I don't have Thai Sticky Rice, but I do have Arabian Nights. I wasn't one of the multitude that likes it on its own, but it is such a great blender. If you are interested in it, send me a PM and let me know how much to send.



Dibbles, you can send an ounce to:

Nurture Soap Inc.
Attn: Carrie Thornsbury
260 Manchester Ave
Wabash IN. 46992

We'll get on it ASAP!


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## doriettefarm

dibbles said:


> I don't have Thai Sticky Rice, but I do have Arabian Nights. I wasn't one of the multitude that likes it on its own, but it is such a great blender. If you are interested in it, send me a PM and let me know how much to send.



I don't have the Thai Sticky Rice either but always wanted to try it because it sounded really yummy and interesting (I love asian food esp a good thai curry over rice).  Anyhoo, since MO is adding 4oz sizes to their frenzy offering I'm going to order some if it doesn't sell out in the Feb frenzy.  I'll save 1oz for Carrie if she doesn't get a sample before then.


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## newbie

It won't sell out in any Frenzy and nothing else will either. Each of those are pre-orders. They will calculate what is ordered in those times and then meet the demand, whatever it is.


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## doriettefarm

newbie said:


> It won't sell out in any Frenzy and nothing else will either. Each of those are pre-orders. They will calculate what is ordered in those times and then meet the demand, whatever it is.



You're right (doh) I forgot about the pre-buy stuff.  :headbanging:


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## newbie

They are smart to shift and offer the 4 ounce sizes. Still they leave a gap to be filled for people who want to buy only 1-2 ounces to test or don't want to have to wait for a few months to be able to order.


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## Omneya

I was so sad when I heard this! I soap as a hobby. I buy in 2 oz and 4 oz bottles. I do have 3 FO's from them that are 8 oz that i bought during a sale. But would never need 1 lb of any FO from any where. I really think this is going to back fire on them, sorry to say it but I do.


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## dibbles

Cosmo said:


> Dibbles, you can send an ounce to:
> 
> Nurture Soap Inc.
> Attn: Carrie Thornsbury
> 260 Manchester Ave
> Wabash IN. 46992
> 
> We'll get on it ASAP!



I'll get it in the mail tomorrow or Monday  Thanks for doing this for all of us!


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## snappyllama

One thing on Home for the Holidays: it has a really low usage rate. Thought I'd mention that.

One FO that MO used to carry but hasn't in a few years was Pumpkin Bread. It is the hands down the best pumpkin I've ever tried (out of around 10 or so from various companies). Not sure if your supplier would still have the formula for that one, but it's one of the few FOs I could see myself using a pound of in a timely manner.

That is awesome to know that you already have a couple of my favorites! I'll definitely be including those in my next order.

BTW, you rock!


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## penelopejane

newbie said:


> I would never had said anything on their page about a competitor in other circumstances. I feel like I can more legitimately when they announce a decision to not sell except in bulk and so many people are saying they can't do that and will look elsewhere. I can take razzing!



Where did the 25 lb idea come from though? They were going to sell 16 oz and now 4oz. The whole idea of selling FO 3 times a year seems crazy especially as there will be a long lead time etc.  Not customer friendly at all.


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## bbrown

I think I might go out in the front yard and yell from happiness!  I cannot take it.  This makes my day!  Vanilla Milk is my ABSOLUTE favorite and now that I know you carry it, well, that just makes me want to somersault forever.

My little business can't take 25 lbs.   
I've ordered Nuture micas before and I was VERY pleased.  The red is perhaps the best out there.  I will become a FO customer now since they will carry what MO is not going to carry in reasonable sizes.

yessss!!!!!


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## jules92207

Cosmo said:


> Dibbles, you can send an ounce to:
> 
> 
> 
> Nurture Soap Inc.
> 
> Attn: Carrie Thornsbury
> 
> 260 Manchester Ave
> 
> Wabash IN. 46992
> 
> 
> 
> We'll get on it ASAP!




I have a 1oz of cucumber lavender, it's yours if you'd like to try to duplicate it. It smells great oob, very fresh. I haven't soaped it yet though, anyone else try it?


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## Soapmaker145

It is so kind of you to agree to help poor soapers out.  This is a huge list and I think we need to help you narrow it down a bit.  I haven't tried Mad Oils but the pepper FO is on my list.  I think it would be helpful if other members list what they use on a regular basis to help prioritize the duplications.  I'm afraid the reason they don't want to carry their FOs year around is because they don't sell enough. 

Please consider reducing the FO sample size to 5 to 7 ml perhaps using these types of tubes: http://www.usascientific.com/vials.aspx.   They are very easy to work with and to store in racks.  They don't take much space at all.  I think 5 ml is about the perfect FO sample size that would give ample volume for testing without too much unwanted material left over at the end.  Having a lot of leftover Fos is a major deterrent against experimenting.

If you are willing to add few more FOs, there are some from Soapalooza that would be worth duping, in particular Bonsai, Big Sur, Gentelman's Bay and Scuppernong Wine.

Thank you!


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## Cosmo

Soapmaker145 said:


> It is so kind of you to agree to help poor soapers out.  This is a huge list and I think we need to help you narrow it down a bit.  I haven't tried Mad Oils but the pepper FO is on my list.  I think it would be helpful if other members list what they use on a regular basis to help prioritize the duplications.  I'm afraid the reason they don't want to carry their FOs year around is because they don't sell enough.
> 
> Please consider reducing the FO sample size to 5 to 7 ml perhaps using these types of tubes: http://www.usascientific.com/vials.aspx.   They are very easy to work with and to store in racks.  They don't take much space at all.  I think 5 ml is about the perfect FO sample size that would give ample volume for testing without too much unwanted material left over at the end.  Having a lot of leftover Fos is a major deterrent against experimenting.
> 
> If you are willing to add few more FOs, there are some from Soapalooza that would be worth duping, in particular Bonsai, Big Sur, Gentelman's Bay and Scuppernong Wine.
> 
> Thank you!



Thank you! I would love help with prioritizing the duplications! I do think the 5 ml is too small of a sample. It would be very hard to test this small of an amount in soap. Do you agree? Our sample sizes are almost an ounce which are big enough to test in about 1 pound of soap.


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## lenarenee

I've always thought that Nurture and Mad Oils, two very wonderful companies, were too much alike in regards to quality offerings. Mad Oils is more expensive, but had some micas that Nurture didn't and I'm more of a mica ho than an fo ho. I've always had more "loyalty" for Carrie because she was the first company I ordered any colorants from - back when she was working out of a closet in her house and when I wrongly thought that micas were a product of child labor. 

I've been incredibly impressed with her dedication - no soaper is too small, too inconsequentional to get her personal attention. So you know she stays on top of everything. Her business has grown at the speed of light and I want her to be successful (and have time to take a much needed vacation!)

I also have a great deal of respect for the creativity and energy Mad Oils brings to their business!  So I'm actually glad to see they seem to be taking a different focus. They have a rock star marketer on their staff so I'm sure they see a soaping need that isn't being fulfilled - Possibly the medium sized cottage soaping businesses - the ones who need larger sizes, but not massive? I think it benefits Nurture and themselves. I don't know. But I sure do wish them success with their new venture.


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## Stacyspy

I got a sample of the Winter Wonderland with my mica order, and it is FABULOUS!!! I kept all the soap for myself


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## lenarenee

I'm only a hobbyist Carrie, but I prefer 1oz sample so I get 1lb samples of soap.  I've tried using the tiny sample sizes in small amounts of leftover batter, but feel I get poor results. I can't get a feel for true soap performance/acceleration that way because the leftover batter has been sitting in a bowl - it cools faster than an intentionally made 1lb test batch, and it's several minutes older than a fresh one. Makes it harder to properly judge the working time you'd like in a "real" batch of soap.



Stacyspy said:


> I got a sample of the Winter Wonderland with my mica order, and it is FABULOUS!!! I kept all the soap for myself



Good to know!  I order WW because of the reviews here and on Nurture's site, but never got to soap it!  I don't know if I should save it for next Christmas or indulge now.


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## Soapmaker145

I think 5 ml is perfect.  Even half an oz is overkill IMO.  I've tested a lot of FOs this past year.  I started out testing using ~5g of FOs in 4 to 5 oz batter in oikos greek yogurt cups (example attached).  Now I use 1 oz batter with 1 ml of FO.  This is plenty to let me know if I like an FO or not.  If I do, then I'll buy a larger volume to test.  I can tell you personally I don't want to make a lb of soap of an FO that I may not like or it may not survive in my mix.  I also don't want to have 20+ ml to dispose of.  I'm more willing to try FOs if I don't have to worry about the excess volume.  I hope other members will chime in with their preferences.    

Just an FYI, BB and CG have Mayan Gold.  They are very similar and both do reasonably well in cp.  FB has a good Orange Blossom and a Hyacinth which IIRC was also nice.  I seem to remember some posts about Smoke&Mirrors being similar to other FOs.  I think we need to help you identify the more unique Mad Oil FOs before asking you to invest in duplicating them.


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## doriettefarm

I also think a 5ml sample of FO is way too small for testing CP.  I might use it in a lotion, sugar scrub or liquid soap but I actually LOVE that Carrie includes a full oz because it's perfect for testing in a 1 lb batch.  Please don't stop including the 1oz sample FOs . . . for me it's led to many larger purchases of those FOs down the road.


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## mx5inpenn

I agree the current size is perfect! I love being able to test a pound.  It means I can keep a bar long term to test how the scent holds up, but can still use a few, especially the ones I really like!


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## dibbles

I also think 1 oz for testing is good. I think Soapmaker145's testing process is different than a lot of us, in that a lot of FO samples are ordered and tested, several to a small batch of soap. I will tend to order 1 or 2 ounces of a few FOs that sound interesting when I am ordering other supplies. Then I make a 1 lb or a regular sized batch to try it out. If I like it, I'll order a larger amount and if not, I can find someone to give it to.

I haven't tried too many of the MO fragrances, but FWIW I'll share my thoughts. I'm not huge into florals, but I really like Elderflower. It's a green, fresh floral - not too perfumy - and it behaved very well for me. It reminds me of Linden. Snow Witch and Vanilla Milk are two of my very favorites, and happily it seems you already have that covered. Arabian Nights and Velvet Peppercorn are both very nice, but I use both of them as blenders rather than stand alone FOs. I blended the Peppercorn with Anise EO and got a weird pink discoloration in my TD parts. The other blend I used it in was a light brown - I think from a moderately discoloring FO and I used a pretty small amount of Peppercorn in that blend. So I don't know if I had a fluke with the pink discoloration or if it would happen again. Two I've tried and wouldn't reorder are Spanish Fly and Golden Embargo. I think the Spanish Fly was just too powdery/musky for me and I am, I think, one of the rare people who just don't like heavy amber. A little amber in a blend is nice, but that one was just way to much for me. I also tried Lavender Chamomile - again nice, but not so different from others. I've been curious to try Deviant, Hedonic Tonic and Cucumber Lavender, but what I don't know I won't miss. 

ETA: Soapmaker, I do appreciate your testing process, and have taken your advice on more than one occasion.


----------



## Catastrophe

I have ordered a pound of Thai Sticky Rice.  I'll have to order a bottle from Amazon or some place to send a sample in.


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## newbie

The ones I seem to hear the most about, of MO FO's, are Hedonic Tonic, Snow Witch, Spanish Fly, South Beach, Vanilla Milk. I hear good things about Elderflower but it doesn't get mentioned as frequently as the others. Smoke and Mirrors is another. Deviant is a dupe of Red Velvet and may be available elsewhere pretty easily. Thai Sticky Rice gets mixed reviews. I've heard some people searching high and low for Loo Loo SHampoo but I don't even know what it smells like. 

The Lemon Unhinged Discolors and people seem to complain about that- not sure if they are new and don't understand what vanilla content will do. I like their Velvet Peppercorn as a mixer. Some of the others don't seem to be talked about as much or are probably easily found elsewhere, like Downy Scent, Tea scents, Pear, Cotton Candy, Chocolate, Pink Sugar, Sugar Cookies, Lav and Chamomile. I can't say I would bother with those much.


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## Soapmaker145

dibbles said:


> I also think 1 oz for testing is good. I think Soapmaker145's testing process is different than a lot of us, in that a lot of FO samples are ordered and tested, several to a small batch of soap. I will tend to order 1 or 2 ounces of a few FOs that sound interesting when I am ordering other supplies. Then I make a 1 lb or a regular sized batch to try it out. If I like it, I'll order a larger amount and if not, I can find someone to give it to.
> 
> I haven't tried too many of the MO fragrances, but FWIW I'll share my thoughts. I'm not huge into florals, but I really like Elderflower. It's a green, fresh floral - not too perfumy - and it behaved very well for me. It reminds me of Linden. Snow Witch and Vanilla Milk are two of my very favorites, and happily it seems you already have that covered. Arabian Nights and Velvet Peppercorn are both very nice, but I use both of them as blenders rather than stand alone FOs. I blended the Peppercorn with Anise EO and got a weird pink discoloration in my TD parts. The other blend I used it in was a light brown - I think from a moderately discoloring FO and I used a pretty small amount of Peppercorn in that blend. So I don't know if I had a fluke with the pink discoloration or if it would happen again. Two I've tried and wouldn't reorder are Spanish Fly and Golden Embargo. I think the Spanish Fly was just too powdery/musky for me and I am, I think, one of the rare people who just don't like heavy amber. A little amber in a blend is nice, but that one was just way to much for me. I also tried Lavender Chamomile - again nice, but not so different from others. I've been curious to try Deviant, Hedonic Tonic and Cucumber Lavender, but what I don't know I won't miss.
> 
> ETA: Soapmaker, I do appreciate your testing process, and have taken your advice on more than one occasion.



I'm glad everybody is sharing their opinion about the sample size and the FOs.  To me, 1 oz is a regular size and not a sample and a sniffy is too small.  I know that having larger sample sizes will keep me from buying too many FOs in the future which isn't so bad.  It looks like we have a list of the best of the MO FOs to dupe. 

Dibbles, thank you for mentioning the Elderflower.  I've been looking for Linden for a while and so far nothing I tried has come even close. It was my favorite L'Occitane soap and would love to have something similar. I'm happy you found my FO reviews useful.  I think of them as a starting point to give people a better idea if the FO profile falls within their interest.  I often order blind.  

I test scents 20 to 50 at a time.  About 10% make it through the testing no matter how many people smell the soaps.  They may not be the same 10 but it is hard to get people to like or agree on the majority of scents.  I've been amazed at how complex our sense of smell is.  There are people who don't recognize mint, citrus, spice (like cinnamon), vanilla and many florals.


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## dibbles

Soapmaker145 said:


> Dibbles, thank you for mentioning the Elderflower.  I've been looking for Linden for a while and so far nothing I tried has come even close. It was my favorite L'Occitane soap and would love to have something similar.



I'm not sure if I have any Elderflower left, but I do have a little of Sweet Cakes Linden. I can send you sniffies - PM me with your address if you would like them. If I don't have any Elderflower, I do have a soap I made which is Elderflower/Patchouli EO, and right now I'm not getting much patchouli from it so it might give you an idea if it's close to what you are looking for.


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## bbrown

There are several on the list that I sell out of in my shop.  Pink Grapefruit, Golden Embargo and Velvet Peppercorn I make multiple batches of and I sell out.   Hedonic Tonic is one I'm surprised hasn't done very well.  I happen to love it.  Loo loo shampoo I was able to purchase then use before it left and it's very soft.  If you remember Flowering Herbs from Bath & Body Works, it smells like that.

One I have curing right now is their Night Blooming Jasmine which smells intoxicating.   But I'm not able to find it on their website.   

Powder Puff Girls was very powdery and wasn't my favorite, but it seemed to do well.  

Vanilla Milk is the best for perfumes and lotions,  and one of my favorites, but in CP soap it was a dang mess.   The cured fragrance was nothing like OOB.

ETA: Their Dragon's Blood is one of the best and I sell out of that one on a regular basis.


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## lenarenee

dibbles said:


> I also think 1 oz for testing is good. I think Soapmaker145's testing process is different than a lot of us, in that a lot of FO samples are ordered and tested, several to a small batch of soap. I will tend to order 1 or 2 ounces of a few FOs that sound interesting when I am ordering other supplies. Then I make a 1 lb or a regular sized batch to try it out. If I like it, I'll order a larger amount and if not, I can find someone to give it to.
> 
> I haven't tried too many of the MO fragrances, but FWIW I'll share my thoughts. I'm not huge into florals, but I really like Elderflower. It's a green, fresh floral - not too perfumy - and it behaved very well for me. It reminds me of Linden. Snow Witch and Vanilla Milk are two of my very favorites, and happily it seems you already have that covered. Arabian Nights and Velvet Peppercorn are both very nice, but I use both of them as blenders rather than stand alone FOs. I blended the Peppercorn with Anise EO and got a weird pink discoloration in my TD parts. The other blend I used it in was a light brown - I think from a moderately discoloring FO and I used a pretty small amount of Peppercorn in that blend. So I don't know if I had a fluke with the pink discoloration or if it would happen again. Two I've tried and wouldn't reorder are Spanish Fly and Golden Embargo. I think the Spanish Fly was just too powdery/musky for me and I am, I think, one of the rare people who just don't like heavy amber. A little amber in a blend is nice, but that one was just way to much for me. I also tried Lavender Chamomile - again nice, but not so different from others. I've been curious to try Deviant, Hedonic Tonic and Cucumber Lavender, but what I don't know I won't miss.
> 
> ETA: Soapmaker, I do appreciate your testing process, and have taken your advice on more than one occasion.



I'd like to say Amen to that too. Soapmaker has a very systematic, purposeful and detailed approach to everything she does. Then - there's the record-keeping!  I know to always trust what she says because of it.

Now, let's talk about my systematic approach and record-keeping......*mumble mumble*...dagnabbit I have no idea what fo is in that pine green men's soap...oh wait, it was Nurture's Obsidian...oops, nope that's a full bottle right there. Oh! Must have been BB's Cedar and Saffr...nope wait...its full too....bad word, bad word....etc.

(Really need to find out what it was because its a big time fader fo.)


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## Cosmo

Catastrophe said:


> I have ordered a pound of Thai Sticky Rice so I can send some to Carrie.  I'll have to order a bottle from Amazon or some place to send a sample in.



I can send you a bottle to send it in! Just let me know and thank you!

I actually test like soapmaker does. We test many fragrances at once, but my testers are just a bit bigger. I think I'd rather err on the side of caution with sample size. Too much is generally better than too little, especially since filling smaller samples is crazy time consuming and may actually end up costing more than the larger sample sizes.

Plus, if you want to test in more products like lotions having a bit more is also good.

Thank you for the fabulous feedback and comments!!! I want you to know that I truly appreciate it!

I found out this morning that our Olive Branch = Spanish Fly for those of you looking for it.


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## jakethemouse

Do any australia suppliers stock any MO ? i would love to get some but shipping is 4 sometime 5 times the proce of the oil.


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## reinbeau

Yes, I think they're a good size for samples. They can actually be used.


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## cerelife

dibbles said:


> I haven't tried too many of the MO fragrances, but FWIW I'll share my thoughts. I'm not huge into florals, but I really like Elderflower. It's a green, fresh floral - not too perfumy - and it behaved very well for me. It reminds me of Linden. Snow Witch and Vanilla Milk are two of my very favorites, and happily it seems you already have that covered. Arabian Nights and Velvet Peppercorn are both very nice, but I use both of them as blenders rather than stand alone FOs. I blended the Peppercorn with Anise EO and got a weird pink discoloration in my TD parts. The other blend I used it in was a light brown - I think from a moderately discoloring FO and I used a pretty small amount of Peppercorn in that blend. So I don't know if I had a fluke with the pink discoloration or if it would happen again.



Elderflower and Velvet Peppercorn are two of my favorites for soaping! I use them both as single scents. Velvet Peppercorn is the closest FO I've found to ScentWorks' Acadian Homecoming scent - I don't get pepper so much as a woodsy, cypress kind of scent. And it does discolor to pinkish color during cure on its own or with TD. The included pic shows Elderflower on the top colored with MO Guava Lava mica, and Velvet Peppercorn below with MO Harold's Purple Crayon mica for the bottom part and for the pencil line. The top is uncolored and you can see it turning pink on the top/around the edges. This was just after it was cut...the entire top part turns a dusty pink during the cure.
Also Thai Sticky Rice smells just like the real thing OOB and in lotion! While I can't say it's a great seller for me, some people (myself included) adore it and get addicted  Seems to be one of those "Love it or Hate it" kind of scents - on the "Love it" side are those of us who are amazed at the realistic scent (and I make a ton of sticky rice, so I KNOW that smell!!), while on the "Hate it" side are those who wonder why on earth anyone would want to smell like rice. 
I'm glad someone offered to send a sample, since I only have 2 oz left....I've been watching this thread hoping I wouldn't have to surrender my last bit for the greater good!! Thank you!!!!


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## Soapmaker145

Dibbles, I sent you a PM.  Thank you.

Lenarenee, I'm not sure you want to see my records (head down in shame)!  The scientist in me would be really embarrassed!!! If I didn't create Word and Excel documents for my FO tests and made myself enter the information before I poured the testers, I would have had a big mess.  Had I known how deeply I was going down this rabbit hole, I would have created a database to better track it all. The amazing part is I can find all the soaps when I need them and I recognize all the scents that made it even ones that I didn't like but friends asked for.   I'm so behind on writing reviews, it's hopeless:cry:.

The tubes are very easy to fill because they have a wide opening with no weighing necessary.  That is what I use when I send samples out or make blends.  Element B&B uses them for their samples.

However, I totally understand that the majority of people who don't buy a larger number of FOs at a time prefer a larger sample.  I have my eyes on a number of your fragrances as soon as I make some room in my cupboard .


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## Catastrophe

cerelife said:


> Also Thai Sticky Rice smells just like the real thing OOB and in lotion! While I can't say it's a great seller for me, some people (myself included) adore it and get addicted  Seems to be one of those "Love it or Hate it" kind of scents - on the "Love it" side are those of us who are amazed at the realistic scent (and I make a ton of sticky rice, so I KNOW that smell!!), while on the "Hate it" side are those who wonder why on earth anyone would want to smell like rice.
> I'm glad someone offered to send a sample, since I only have 2 oz left....I've been watching this thread hoping I wouldn't have to surrender my last bit for the greater good!! Thank you!!!!



I haven't  received a shipping notice from MO for it yet, so I'm a bit concerned they may have sold out...but I haven't received a refund either, so right now I'm just hoping they're way behind on shipping.


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## newbie

I went to Nurture to order some 1-2 ounces of the MO dupes/alikes so I can compare but the ones I wanted were completely sold out. Both Olive Branch and 8th and Ocean are gone in small sizes.


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## dibbles

I just used 8th and Ocean for a try at the gradient challenge. I've never smelled MO South Beach, but I can tell you that 8th & Ocean smells really, really good! I might be able to drain a couple of drops out of the bottle onto a paper towel if you want a sniffie


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## Cosmo

newbie said:


> I went to Nurture to order some 1-2 ounces of the MO dupes/alikes so I can compare but the ones I wanted were completely sold out. Both Olive Branch and 8th and Ocean are gone in small sizes. Did you have a rush, Carrie? Do you know when they will be back in stock in smaller sizes?



We did! We are refilling Olive Branch and had to order 8th and Ocean. We will start restocking Monday!


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## Stacyspy

I have a spare ounce of 8th and Ocean, if you'd like me to send it.


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## earlene

Catastrophe said:


> I haven't  received a shipping notice from MO for it yet, so I'm a bit concerned they may have sold out...but I haven't received a refund either, so right now I'm just hoping they're way behind on shipping.



Catastrophe, I'm glad you mentioned this.  I just checked and discovered my order is supposed to be delivered the day I fly to DC.  Of course I leave home at zero dark-thirty, long before deliveries start, so I'm concerned about my box of FO's sitting on my front porch steps for a week!  Dang!

I'll have to call FedEx to see if I can reschedule the delivery.  The online  FedEx Delivery Manager is currently unavailable.


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## Cosmo

newbie said:


> I went to Nurture to order some 1-2 ounces of the MO dupes/alikes so I can compare but the ones I wanted were completely sold out. Both Olive Branch and 8th and Ocean are gone in small sizes. Did you have a rush, Carrie? Do you know when they will be back in stock in smaller sizes?



Newbie, I came into work today and filled a bunch of samples. 8th & Ocean and the Olive Branch are both available in sample sizes now.


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## newbie

Oh crappity crap. My order from you is getting delivered today!


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## Hadassah

thank you for all this information! I am beyond excited about Nurture Soap duplicating scents of MO! I am so glad I found this thread as I was heart-broken that MO scents were now gone. I love ordering from Nurture Soap, but now I will love it even more!!! So excited! 
I didn't realize a few scents of MO were already in your store. Maybe I will message you to see if you can add them to my order?


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## snappyllama

Carrie, one warning on "Grow a Pear". I wouldn't recommend it for CP - though it's lovely oob. Mine riced and separated worse than any FO I've ever used. Although I eventually got mine together, I got a weird oily/crumbly texture with a gross scent morph. I actually ended up throwing out the batch.

I wish a had a sample of their discontinued Pumpkin Bread. It was the best (by far) of any of the 10 or so pumpkins I've tried.

Their Home for the Holidays is really nice but has a very low usage rate in CP.


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## Cosmo

snappyllama said:


> Carrie, one warning on "Grow a Pear". I wouldn't recommend it for CP - though it's lovely oob. Mine riced and separated worse than any FO I've ever used. Although I eventually got mine together, I got a weird oily/crumbly texture with a gross scent morph. I actually ended up throwing out the batch.
> 
> I wish a had a sample of their discontinued Pumpkin Bread. It was the best (by far) of any of the 10 or so pumpkins I've tried.
> 
> Their Home for the Holidays is really nice but has a very low usage rate in CP.



Would you happen to know the IFRA usage for Pumpkin Bread? Was it phthalate free? Any extra info would help me find what fragrance it may be.  Also, knowing the vanillin content would help a bunch!


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## earlene

Snappyllama, I had a slightly different experience with Mad Oil's Grow A Pear, but I did mix it 50/50 with another pear scent, both of which I got from you.  I actually quite adore the scent of the soap I made with them.  The soap is described here.  There were so many variables that could have affected that soap to make it set up so quickly, but at least it didn't rice. Plus I hand stirred that batch because I expected acceleration.  Maybe alone Grow a Pear might not be as nice as in combination with Candlepro's Pearberry, but I sure do like it in this combo.  Trouble is, I don't have anymore of the Pearberry to mix it with, although that's easy to remedy.


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## newbie

Cindy2428 posted this back in March. I don't see Pumpkin Bread on here but thought this info might be otherwise helpful.

Sexy Beast: IFRA Soap; 3.22%; FP 200F, Vanillin 0.82% MO lists this as an exclusive fragrance and it’s just that. I’ve never smelled a combo like this. It’s a soapy floral with spicy overtones. By nature I’m not a floral fan but I’m going to try this in a roll-on with jojoba oil – I love it that much. Their site lists “mimosa, lily, ylang-ylang, rose, jasmine, some fresh laundry, a touch of vanilla, and a whisper of light musk”. Spot on. I would describe this as a sporty feminine floral, but if you added something like black pepper EO I think this would work for guys as well.

South Beach: IFRA-9.49%, 0% Vanillin, 195F FP I have been looking a long time for a tropical fruit scent and this is IT for me. It is not too sweet; the cantaloupe grounds it with a touch of green, but it is bright and fruity with no outright musk or fake “suntan” smell. There is an ocean note but it does not detract from the fruit blend. It’s nice and strong out of the bottle and I’m hoping that this will stick well.

Rose Geranium: IFRA-48.35%, 0% Vanillin; FP 200F If you are a novice to EOs, this would be what you’d expect a rose geranium to smell like – a fully blooming rose garden. (The EO actually is very green and herbal). This is a clean scented rose with just a touch of leafy, earthy undertone. 

Wild Hyacinth: IFRA-4.97%, Vanillin 0%, FP 200F I freely admit that I am not a floral fan, and I actually waited to open this bottle last. I’ve been loving every one of these FOs so far and didn’t want to spoil my run. Yes this is a floral but it has enough green notes to prevent that overpowering sweet sickly smell. I actually plan to soap this clean without blending. This will be a first for me.

Pink Grapefruit: IFRA-44.44%, 0% Vanillin, FP 130F I love pink grapefruit and have used the EO in my therapy blends for many years. For the price point I did expect to be disappointed with the harsh end note I have found with less expensive oils. NOT THIS ONE! It’s bright, clean and the perfect citrus. I am really hoping this sticks.

Vanilla Milk: Vanillin 1.30%, FP 200F, Sg 1.1240-1.1340 I’ve stayed away from high vanilla content scents, because in truth I haven’t been able to embrace the brown. But this one will be totally worth it. To me it smells like rich thick, vanilla coconut milk. –No fake, plastic after smell. Those who have been hunting for this will know what I mean.

Them Apples: IFRA-12.82%, 0% Vanillin, 200FP Clean, uncluttered, fresh green apple scent. Surprisingly strong out of the bottle; I imagine in CP needing to use at max strength. Nice and crisp without the sour note of a Granny Smith.

Snow Witch: IFRA-9.90%, 0% Vanillin, 170FP I smell jasmine and strong musk notes with either balsam or fir needle pine. I don’t detect the fruity notes in the MO description, but it is unique. A bit strong of a floral for me personally, but if it tones down a little in soap I may like it more.

Velvet Peppercorn: IFRA 20% , 0% Vanillin, FP 200F I was so looking forward to this one and it does not disappoint. The healthy dose of black pepper EO makes this a bargain. It is not overly sharp but spicy enough for a distinct difference. Their site lists a blend of cracked black pepper, freshly turned dirt and prized velvet. I admit I don’t know what velvet smells like, but it definitely brings a finishing touch to this FO.

Smoke + Mirrors : IFRA 43.48%, FP 200F, Vanillin 0% At the base of this I detect that outside smell of sweet apple wood burning in the fireplace. 
There is a moderate musk, but clean with a minimum of florals. I would call this unisex scent sophisticated lumberjack. 

Orange Blossom: IFRA-100%, 0% Vanillin, 200FP This carries more of a neroli orange versus tangerine or sweet orange. It’s not overly strong and with it’s high flashpoint I’m curious about what they’ve used to anchor it. There is a light powder note but it carries the citrus well.

Rosebud : IFRA-42.01%, 0% Vanillin, FP 200F Since I was fortunate to be able to purchase this as well as the Rose Geranium, a comparison was inevitable. Rosebud is an all-out, in your face rose. It is very fragrant and feminine. If you were in a flower shop and walked by a dozen of these, they would stop you in your tracks. In contrast, the Rose Geranium is more earthy, carrying the herbal note of the EO. I really like them both; there are distinct differences and I would purchase them separately again.

Powder Puff Girl: IFRA 100%, 0% Vanillin, FP 200F This one reminds me of Clohe perfume, a Carl Lagerfeld scent from 1975. A soft powdery blend of jasmine and honeysuckle with a light finish of a soft rose and a light wood finish. Definitely for the romantic girly-girl.

Pink Sugar Type: IFRA-41.67%, 2% Vanillin, FP 200F Out of the bottle I smell a strong sweet musk-vanilla caramel fragrance . I placed this on a tester and came back to it overnight. It’s still very sweet but I now can pick up on the amber and light floral note.

Mayan Gold : Sg-0.9315, 2% Vanillin, FP 200F MO offers a much better description than I can offer – “An exotic, woody-musk having top-notes of dried berries, black coconut, lemon, orange and a touch of lime, followed by middle-notes of jasmine, rose, neroli and star anise, and finishing with a warm, earthy patchouli, sandalwood, musk and powdery Tonka bean and vanilla base-note.” I can smell everything advertised, and the combination makes it a complicated tropical fragrance. If you are looking for a lighter patchouli tropical blend , this is a good choice.

Marzipan: IFRA-7.12%, 1% Vanillin, FP 181F This smells EXACTLY like the rich decadent almond paste from marzipan. A good almond is hard to find and if you don’t mind the sweet overtones to this one, you’ve found it. 

Loo Loo Shampoo : IFRA 10%, 0% Vanillin, FP 200F I would describe this as an herbal floral, spa scent. It’s clean with plenty of floral notes.

Lemon Poppy Muffin Top: (Just notified 3/12 - this one has been discontinued for reformulation) 0% Vanillin, FP 124F –MO notes taupe/tan discoloration. I’m new to foodie scents, but this one makes me hungry. If you like baked goods, this is a winner. I went to sleep carrying this fragrance with me, and be darned if I’m not baking muffins today. I love this scent but I just don’t know if I want to smell like food. One other plus for this one is it is not overly sweet.

Lavender & Chamomile (Huggies) Type: IFRA-5.71%, 0.15% Vanillin, FP 200F Powdery, soft lavender scent with undertones of chamomile. A nice calming scent perfect for children and adults alike. This is one of those traditional scents that you always need to keep in stock . I look forward to playing with this one. 

Jasmine: IFRA-11.38%,0% Vanillin: FP 200F I pulled my small bottle of jasmine EO and had to do a comparison. DEAD ON. As with most true florals, MO notes acceleration so be prepared to work quickly.

Hedonic Tonic : IFRA-27.21%, 0% Vanillin, FP 200F Sage highlights this unique FO without being too earthy. It’s not overly sweet and makes a great unisex blend. I love this soapy fresh blend and I admit I’m guilty of tinkering with my FO’s to make them my own, but not this one. It’s wonderful just the way it is.

Gourmet Chocolate : IFRA-6.94%, 15% Vanillin, FP 200F Out of bottle this is a dark chocolate with a liquor undertone. It reminds me of the chocolates we used to buy that were filled with schnapps at Christmas time. I’ll be curious to see if it holds the liquor scent.

Golden Embargo: IFRA-100%, 2.30% Vanillin, FP 200F This is a classic combination of amber, sandalwood and musk. It’s well-balanced and not overly strong out of the bottle. For me it’s one of those scents that offers a demure sensuality – a quiet sexy that make you take a second sniff. MO notes a color change to a “light cappuccino”.

Dragon's Blood: IFRA-33.33%, 1.6% Vanillin, FP 181F Strong and complicated, the patchouli really makes the citrus and embedded florals in this blend shine. This is my first DB purchase and when I did a price comparison, this one is a bargain.

Downy April Fresh Type: IFRA-22.22%, 0% Vanillin, FP 200F I love clean scents and admit to putting my nose directly on my clean laundry fresh and warm out of the dryer. This is an exact dupe of Downy Original.

Cotton Candy: IFRA 5.57% 0%Vanillin, FP 200F Wow is this one sweet. No fruity cereal notes like Monkey Farts, just plain sugar. In all honesty a blender for me but I think it will tone down the medicinal eo’s like tea tree.

Black Raspberry Vanilla: IFRA-6.25%, 0% Vanillin, FP 195F I’ve never purchased BRV before, so I have nothing to compare this to. This is sweet as I expected, but not overly so. I don’t detect vanilla, but more of a butter cream frosting. To add the extra kick from vanilla, I would probably make a 2 layer soap using Vanilla Milk.

Arabian Nights : IFRA-18.18%, 1% Vanillin, FP 200F This one is named perfectly. Exotic, spicy; the musk is not overpowering and lets the citrus shine. This could easily be a men’s cologne or women’s perfume. Powder and musk provide the base and I detect the warmth of sandalwood, lime and either bergamot or lemon verbena.

Snappy, does this sound at all like MO's Pumpkin Bread? I know there are limited fragrance houses in the US so often people carry the same FO's but name them differently.


http://rusticescentuals.com/Pumpkin-Bread.html


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## doriettefarm

Was the MO Pumpkin Bread cinnamon-y?  Or was it more of a yeasty pumpkin bread?  FragranceBuddy has a Cinnamon Pumpkin Bread if it helps at all.

http://www.fragrancebuddy.com/cinnamonpumpkinbreadfragrance.aspx


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## snappyllama

Bummer, I have absolutely no info on it other than my memory... I know it did have phthalates  (at least that's why they told me they pulled it for reformulation). For sure it has some vanillin, I got discoloration... I guessing 1-3%. Oh well, the hunt will continue.

It wasn't too sweet or too spicy or too raw-pumpkiny smelling. It just smelled like pumpkin bread coming out of the oven. 



earlene said:


> *Snappyllama*, I had a slightly different experience with Mad Oil's Grow A Pear, but I did mix it 50/50 with another pear scent, both of which I got from you.  I actually quite adore the scent of the soap I made with them.  The soap is described here.  There were so many variables that could have affected that soap to make it set up so quickly, but at least it didn't rice. Plus I hand stirred that batch because I expected acceleration.  Maybe alone Grow a Pear might not be as nice as in combination with Candlepro's Pearberry, but I sure do like it in this combo.  Trouble is, I don't have anymore of the Pearberry to mix it with, although that's easy to remedy.



I'm glad you had good luck with blending it!  I know different recipes behave differently. I saw a few reviews on MO talking about misbehaving for some, no problems for others. Pearberry and it do sound like a fabulous combination!



newbie said:


> Snappy, does this sound at all like MO's Pumpkin Bread? I know there are limited fragrance houses in the US so often people carry the same FO's but name them differently.
> http://rusticescentuals.com/Pumpkin-Bread.html



I've tried that one, but it is "rawer" smelling and sweeter from my recollection -  if that makes sense. Thanks for the heads-up though! The search continues...



doriettefarm said:


> Was the MO Pumpkin Bread cinnamon-y?  Or was it more of a yeasty pumpkin bread?  FragranceBuddy has a Cinnamon Pumpkin Bread if it helps at all.
> http://www.fragrancebuddy.com/cinnamonpumpkinbreadfragrance.aspx



It was lightly both??  I'm putting that one in my cart, thanks!!


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## earlene

earlene said:


> Catastrophe, I'm glad you mentioned this.  I just checked and discovered my order is supposed to be delivered the day I fly to DC.  Of course I leave home at zero dark-thirty, long before deliveries start, so I'm concerned about my box of FO's sitting on my front porch steps for a week!  Dang!
> 
> I'll have to call FedEx to see if I can reschedule the delivery.  The online  FedEx Delivery Manager is currently unavailable.




Joanna, CEO at MadOils responded to my email asking if the package delivery would require a signature or would it be left on my doorstep.  (Signature requirement would mean they would not leave it on my doorstep, but would re-attempt delivery at a later date.)  I explained why I was asking and said I would call FedEx to see if I could change the delivery date if a signature was not required.  I was impressed by the prompt response from MadOils, if not by the less than gracious wording. "It will just e left on your doorstep, I suppose.  We cannot be held  liable if your package gets stolen, however.  Perhaps someone can pick  it up for you.  In the future, please have items shipped to where they  can be received."

Happily, the CSR at FedEx was totally gracious and helpful.  He changed the delivery date for me at no extra cost because the online Delivery Manager system is still down.


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## Catastrophe

I'm glad you were able to reschedule it!  Joanna posted on one of their FB pages that they are working on catch up the orders, so I suspect mine will ship this week.


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## newbie

Carrie, have you ever carried the equivalent of MO's Pink Chiffon mica? They dc'ed it but I'm not certain why. It seems fairly popular. I have a small sample sized jar and it's a beautiful silvery pink with just a hint of peach. I just got one of yours (Summer Crush?) that I thought might be close but it's more peach/orange. Pink Chiffon is lighter than TKB's Pearl Pink and your Amaranth Pink. I think it would find a lot of use in make up and it's popular among the soapers, so i imagine it is soap stable. Any interest in carrying another pink or do you have enough variety?


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## Catastrophe

cerelife said:


> Thai Sticky Rice smells just like the real thing OOB and in lotion! *<snip>*I'm glad someone offered to send a sample, since I only have 2 oz left....I've been watching this thread hoping I wouldn't have to surrender my last bit for the greater good!! Thank you!!!!



cerelife, please hang on to that 2oz until I have it in hand.  This notice was posted on the MO FB page.



> We sold out of a couple of FOs and had to give refunds sadly. We are not sure how the inventory glitched but we had to mark everything as sold out this afternoon until we understand the glitch.
> Once all fragrances are filled (sometime next week), we will list all that is left. Sorry for the inconvenience but we didn't want anymore unhappy people charging us with torches. This has been an angry (to say the least) kind of week. Glad it's over.
> Don't forget, Monday is a postal holiday so any shipments that did not make it out the door will have to wait until Tuesday (day after MLK Jrs b-day) before being picked up.
> We will keep all updates regarding what orders we are fulfilling posted daily on our homepage. Please refrain from inquiring online or with phone calls... as this delays us further.
> Thank you for your patience





doriettefarm said:


> I see you stirring the pot over there newbie   I also find it very interesting that Mad Oils hasn't responded to anyone's disappointment over this news.  Pretty sure one of their new color offerings is batch certified bath bomb colorants which Carrie already has in stock!  I'm also wondering if the new MO chroma colors are the same as Nurture's new crystal micas.



I just tested some chroma micas from a popular mica supplier, and they're nothing at all like Carrie's crystals.  Most of them appear to have morph'd, but I only soaped them an hour ago.  Unfortunately my cell camera is showing the soap as much prettier than it is in person, and it isn't showing the beauty of the chroma samples (and oh they are beautiful!)  From the ingredients, Carrie's are definitely not chromas.


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## Cosmo

The Chromas have piqued my interest. If they are what I think they are, many of them contain ferric ferrocyanide? This ingredient will fade to nothing in soap, and is often used as a blue color additive for cosmetics. If this is in fact what MO will be carrying, this would in my mind signal a shift into the cosmetic (rather than soap) market. They are beautiful micas, but not soap stable. *Catastrophe*, did the micas you received contain this ingredient?

*Newbie*, Pink Chiffon has been discontinued from the manufacturer. It was due to low sales and they're not making it anymore.


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## Catastrophe

Carrie, of the 11 chroma samples I have/tested, 4 have ferric ferrocyanide.  If you don't mind, I will PM you in a bit.


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## Cosmo

Catastrophe said:


> Carrie, of the 11 chroma samples I have/tested, 4 have ferric ferrocyanide.  If you don't mind, I will PM you in a bit.



Please do Catastrophe!


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## Betdol

*Mad Oils to offer 4oz and 16oz*

I have just read a letter from Jo on the Mad Oils website in their blog section and it she says that due to the comments they will include the 4oz sizes with their 3 small size sell events.  Hope that helps some of the ones that have indicated 16oz was just to large.  They do have cool colors and that is what I primarily use them for.


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## reinbeau

I've never understood why a vendor skips over the 8 oz. size.  I buy that size all the time to test things out - if I love it I've got more for another batch.  If I don't I can destash the rest.  I know, make small test batches - but I don't work that way


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## Relle

This thread has been heavily edited, could you please keep to the topic from the original post, thank you.


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## reinbeau

Heavily edited?  Gutted is more like it - and it all was pertinent.


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## Cosmo

Apparently it is my posts that were deleted from this thread. I was approached by admin to become a sponsor for the forum as I was acting as a sponsor would. I asked to be directed to the rules of the forum regarding this, and never was. I was then told "I know you have employees so you can handle the small cost of helping to keep SMF going via being a Sponsor." That's not the point. I really like to be able to read the rules so they are not vague to me and I may follow them.

*I then paid the cost of being a sponsor, and all my posts were STILL deleted.* I'm sure this one will be as well. I apologize folks. My goal was not to solicit business, but really to help. I thought the information in thread was very valuable, and it's a shame it's gone.


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## bbrown

Much of the most important parts of this thread are gone.  How unfortunate!  So much of that information was truly helpful to small time, big time and hobbyist soapers.


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## doriettefarm

Cosmo said:


> Apparently it is my posts that were deleted from this thread. I was approached by admin to become a sponsor for the forum as I was acting as a sponsor would. I asked to be directed to the rules of the forum regarding this, and never was. I was then told "I know you have employees so you can handle the small cost of helping to keep SMF going via being a Sponsor." That's not the point. I really like to be able to read the rules so they are not vague to me and I may follow them.
> 
> *I then paid the cost of being a sponsor, and all my posts were STILL deleted.* I'm sure this one will be as well. I apologize folks. My goal was not to solicit business, but really to help. I thought the information in thread was very valuable, and it's a shame it's gone.



Carrie - Here's a link to the only rules I can find for the Sponsor's Ad forum  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=56836.  I'm not part of the admin team so it sure would be nice if they could confirm where you should be posting the info that was deleted from the thread.  I personally feel it falls into the category of 'What can you offer us that we can't find on other supplier websites?' and that is taken verbatim from the link above.


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## Cosmo

doriettefarm said:


> Carrie - Here's a link to the only rules I can find for the Sponsor's Ad forum  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=56836.  I'm not part of the admin team so it sure would be nice if they could confirm where you should be posting the info that was deleted from the thread.  I personally feel it falls into the category of 'What can you offer us that we can't find on other supplier websites?' and that is taken verbatim from the link above.



Thank you doriettefarm! This is super helpful!!!


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## newbie

I got deleted for asking if it might be possible to get a color discontinued some time ago by MO. They have no stake in it anymore so I don't see the harm in asking if it's possible to get it from another supplier.

I did not see Carrie's post as a "get rich quick scheme" either (looking in the rules to see why things were deleted). One supplier is leaving a pretty big gap in the FO market. Offering supplies 3 times a year isn't going to work for some soapers who may not want to or be able to wait for 4 months to access something, or people who want samples, small amounts or 8 ounces. For another supplier to fill the gap is basic business.


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## Catastrophe

(Not longer relevant)


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## Fisher

Or, do as MO's did and create your own FB group page using your biz name and Buzz or something.  I personally contacted every FO vendor that I use and asked for dupes of the MO FO's that I use.  The only one to get back to me with possible dupes in their lineup was BB.  Start your own discussion.  This thread is gutted.


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## Relle

Cosmo said:


> Apparently it is my posts that were deleted from this thread. I was approached by admin to become a sponsor for the forum as I was acting as a sponsor would. I asked to be directed to the rules of the forum regarding this, and never was. I was then told "I know you have employees so you can handle the small cost of helping to keep SMF going via being a Sponsor." That's not the point. I really like to be able to read the rules so they are not vague to me and I may follow them.
> 
> *I then paid the cost of being a sponsor, and all my posts were STILL deleted.* I'm sure this one will be as well. I apologize folks. My goal was not to solicit business, but really to help. I thought the information in thread was very valuable, and it's a shame it's gone.



The posts were soft deleted this morning before you were a vendor, they have been reinstated now that you are a vendor, this was in the pm that was sent to you via Angie.


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## Catastrophe

Thanks for reinstating them!


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## Cosmo

Yes, thank you for reinstating the posts! To be fair, the posts were deleted several hours after I became a sponsor and that's what shocked me. However, I'm very glad that thread is back as I feel it does help many people and has a lot of great information.


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## Soapmaker145

Can we go back to talking about the FOs we want duped please?  Dibbles kindly sent me a lovely Elderflower soap.  I put it in the same category as Linden.  It is a clean, fresh scent with a hint of green.  It is definitely uncommon in the world of floral FOs.  It is the nicest floral I tried and I have over a 100.  I hope it is one of the FOs that Nurture decides to dupe.  I'll be the first one buying.

I hope the negative turn this thread took for a brief moment doesn't discourage suppliers from volunteering to help us.  This past year we lost Tennessee, Soapalooza, Mad Oils and probably more.  I suspect more suppliers will stop selling FOs since it is a very competitive market.  It would be nice if we have an easy way to reproduce the FOs we like.  

Cosmo, thank you for considering our requests.  Duping FOs is risky and expensive.  I hope we helped you narrow down the list.


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## bbrown

I'm stalking this thread to find out if/when the MO dupes will be posted on Nurture.


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## Cosmo

Once I get the dupes back from the lab I will post on the sponsor's forum and let everyone know. It should be any time now!

I tested all the new dupes yesterday. I will make a post on the sponsor's forum later today with notes on discoloration, acceleration, etc. 

*the results are now posted in the sponsor's forum*


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## Cosmo

Please see sponsor's forum for updates.


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## Susie

Cosmo said:


> Please see sponsor's forum for updates.



Thank you!


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