# First Soap Advice



## Parfumerie (May 31, 2018)

Hello, I'm just about ready to make my 1st soap I think I'm gonna do cold process but considering hot process, I found a basic recipe on soapqueen.com


Basic Cold Process Recipe (Super fat 5%):
8 oz. Coconut Oil (24%)
15 oz. Olive Oil (44%)
11 oz. Palm Oil (32%)
4.8 oz. Lye
11.2 oz. Distilled Water

https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-...ck-to-basics-simple-gentle-cold-process-soap/


I plan to add activated charcoal to half and bentonite green clay to the other and layer it, I'd like it to be a moisturizing bar of soap do you guys think I should adjust any ratios, add other oils or remove any of the additives?


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## shunt2011 (May 31, 2018)

That looks okay for starters.  I personally would reverse the Palm and Olive.  Also, be sure to run it through a lye calculator to make sure the lye/water is correct.   Also, measure in grams ( print recipe from a soap calc)  is better than ounces.

Also, soap is not moisturizing, depending on the recipe it can be less stripping of the natural oils from our skin.

Good Luck!


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## dixiedragon (May 31, 2018)

I think it seems fine. It's not a recipe that I use, but I think it's a good recipe to start out with. My concern here is actually the layers - that's actually a bit of a pain. Be open to the layers being uneven or bumpy. Mix your charcoal and your clay with 1 TBSP or so of water, oil (taken from your recipe), or glycerin. I recommend glycerin, myself.


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## BrewerGeorge (May 31, 2018)

If it were me, I'd do 50% palm, 30% olive, 20% coconut, but that's a personal preference for keeping olive below 1/3 of a balanced bar and limiting coconut to a fifth.  There's nothing wrong with it as written.

I'd skip the layers your first time.  Pick one and do that.  Layers require a much thicker trace to be stable and you're going to be too anxious your first time to wait for it.  Alternatively, if you MUST do the layers do them side-by-side by separating your mold with a piece of cardboard cut to size placed down the middle.  Secure it in place and pour both sides, then remove after the tamping down.  But I would definitely not try horizontal layers the first time.


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## cmzaha (May 31, 2018)

I would forget the layers and clay, keep in simple until you see how you like the recipe, how it traces etc. There is plenty of time and soap batches ahead to try additives and colorants. 



shunt2011 said:


> That looks okay for starters. I personally would reverse the Palm and Olive. Also, be sure to run it through a lye calculator to make sure the lye/water is correct. Also, measure in grams ( print recipe from a soap calc) is better than ounces.


I would do the same as Shari a mentions.  I would agree with Brewer George with the 50% Palm but palm can thicken quickly


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## Rune (May 31, 2018)

An in-the-bowl-swirl is easy. Take out a bit, for example 1/3 of the batter, and dump it in another bowl or jug. Color it with activated charcoal, and dump it back in the main bowl of uncolored soap in a steady stream and from various hights, and moving the stream in a random pattern, like splatting paint. Then just dump everything in the mold. If it thickens to become porridge or is too thin, it doesn't matter for an in-the-bowl-swirl. It will just be a different design, beautiful anyway. If it becomes very thick and blobby, just swirl it a bit in the bowl with a chopstick or the spatulua before you dump everything it in the mold.


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## Parfumerie (May 31, 2018)

> Also, soap is not moisturizing, depending on the recipe it can be less stripping of the natural oils from our skin.
> 
> Good Luck!



What about lotion bars is that different from soap?  

Thank you all for the input I'll take it all into consideration and post my results


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (May 31, 2018)

Parfumerie said:


> What about lotion bars is that different from soap?
> 
> Thank you all for the input I'll take it all into consideration and post my results


A lotion bar is not saponified. 

The properties of an oil can be totally different from the properties of the salt of that oil (soap). Coconut is the most extreme example - coconut oil is good on the skin, sodium cocoate (saponified coocnut oil using sodium hydroxide) is not


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## Parfumerie (May 31, 2018)

> A lotion bar is not saponified.


Aha



> coconut oil is good on the skin, sodium cocoate (saponified coocnut oil using sodium hydroxide) is not


Why use it in soap if not good on the skin after saponification


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## BrewerGeorge (May 31, 2018)

Parfumerie said:


> Aha
> 
> 
> Why use it in soap if not good on the skin after saponification


To clean!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (May 31, 2018)

Parfumerie said:


> Aha
> 
> 
> Why use it in soap if not good on the skin after saponification


Because it creates bubbles and, when used in the right proportion with other oils or with a high enough superfat, it's okay.


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## Rune (Jun 1, 2018)

Bubbles, yes, but also that coconut easily can be found everywhere. Which is important to many that don't have a soap supply store next door. Some don't even have a soap supply store in their country, like me and many other people from small countries, and then the availability gets more important.


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## Sidzisoaper (Jun 5, 2018)

I'd also flip the olive oil and palm oil in the recipe and run it through a soap calculator. but, for your 1st batch of soap, I'm more concerned with you trying to do layers than I am with the recipe. That recipe will make soap and it is relatively cheap (which is great if it fails and you have to throw it away).  Your first batches are about learning HOW to make the soap. Just concentrate on making something you are proud of.


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## Katiepai (Jun 6, 2018)

I would just do a plain basic soap for your first go to get an understanding of and experience with the actual process. Then when that is under your belt start getting fancier.


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## Parfumerie (Jun 6, 2018)

I kind of thought I was but I'm going to omit the additives and alter the ratios based on the advice given, all I need is my scale which I'll be getting this weekend!

One other question - well a multifaceted one: cold vs hot process.. is there any benefit to a slower cure time and are aesthetics the only difference in the finished soap, does anything besides drying occur in the cure (molecular bonding etc) and has anyone played around with dessicants to speed up a cold process


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## BrewerGeorge (Jun 6, 2018)

Hot process isn't a faster cure time.  Safe to use (that is fully saponified) is not the same thing as fully cured and at its best.  Even CP will be saponified and safe within a day or two.  Curing to best effect is quite a lot more than simply drying.  Dessicants are actually counter productive.  They don't speed cure but can over dry, causing warping.

HP will often use more water, actually.  HP is also quite a bit more work, IMO.  The only reason to do it is to use things that don't work well in CP like stearic acid or really accelerating fragrances.


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## Rune (Jun 7, 2018)

BrewerGeorge said:


> HP will often use more water, actually.  HP is also quite a bit more work, IMO.  The only reason to do it is to use things that don't work well in CP like stearic acid or really accelerating fragrances.



Another important thing with HP, is that you can decide what is going to be soap and what is going to be superfat. I follow some HP-soapmakers on Youtube, and it seems like that is the most important reason behind them doing hot process instead of cold process. They make soap of cheap fats and use the expensive butters as superfat, for example. 

I have also read that castile soaps gets better done HP than CP. But I have no clue if that is the case or not.

Another reason, apart from accelerating fragrances, is that they don't run the risk of their scents morphing or fading because they are eaten by lye. I understand that they can use citrus essential oils in HP as well, which will disappear in cold process. But I'm not too sure of that, I might have mixed things up. They also don't have to worry about trace, they just stickblend everything to thick trace and that's it. Partial gel does not exist in HP. No soda ash either. But of course there are problems with HP that those doing CP don't have, like that the soap suddenly can volcano out of the crock and end up all over the countertop + the floor. It can start to solidify before you have got it into the mold (I have experienced that). 

How much work HP is depends on their method of making HP. Stickblender hot process (SBHP)/countertop hot prosess is very fast. I have done it myself, and it became quite a lot of work because I messed it up, did not have the right equipment etc, etc. But for me the problems started after saponification. But going from oils and lye to soap, that went as fast as a lightening! For those who are experienced enough to know what to do and what not, and actually can follow recipes without experimenting with everything, they can make HP in a hurry. I of course messed everything up with my experimental methods, that I have learned is not too clever to start with for an absolute beginner in soapmaking. 

I think there are many reasons to do HP. I'm not sure though if I will do it again soon, since I now have a recipe I like (I just have to boost the bubbles a bit and it is close to perfection), and that recipe does not have a particular oil going to superfat or anything. I will see when my fragrance oils arrives from Australia, if some of them requires HP, if not, I will make my recipe CP. But I do like HP, it is quite fun when the volcano action starts. I think I have done 3 HP soaps, and two of them ended in the garbage. One was a milk soap, and I had no clue then that the horrible ammonia smell is normal, so it ended up in the trash as a total failure, even if it most likely was just fine. I have not tried the slow HP method, cooking in a crockpot for hours. That seems totally boring and absolutely unnecessary, since it just is to warm the oils to a higher temperature to begin with, dump in hot lye and your HP soap will be done in almost an instant. I don't see any point in doing slow HP, watching over a crockpot for hours when HP really does not take that long at all. If you have 10-20 soaps to make at once (like Essential Soaps on Youtube), well, then it makes sense to use the slow HP method. The fast method would be almost impossible for more than 1 soap at a time.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jun 7, 2018)

Experience will matter for both methods, of course, but I still feel that CP is slightly easier/faster.  It's easy to make a false equivalence between the two methods by not choosing similar finished products.  The _vast_ majority of HP soap is going to be a single color with no decoration, whereas I suspect it's pretty rare that many CP soaps are made without at least an ITP swirl - and many are more complicated still.  It's easy to compare that basic HP soap that just takes a few minutes to a CP design with several more process steps.

FWIW, I can have a single-color CP soap in the mold in 20 minutes or less using prebatched lye solution.  Getting everything ready and putting it away afterward takes longer than the soaping process itself.  I don't usually do that, but I _can_.  Conversely there are advanced HP processes that allow multiple colors, swirls and the like, but they are more rarely performed (I think) and take more time and effort.

So while it is probably fair to say that the _most common_ methodology of HP is faster/easier than the most common methodology of CP, the truth is that they both have a wide range of functional processes that are probably pretty close to the same thing.  After all, they're both performing the same chemical process on the same basic components.  My preference for CP could easily be down to greater experience with it.

You might also consider that the idea that HP soapers can "choose" their superfat is somewhat controversial.  It's conventional wisdom, for sure.  In fact, I'd say it's probably universally considered truth among more casual soapers.  But the actual truth is ... murkier than that.  I'm not well-versed enough on the science to attempt to explain it.  Perhaps someone better *cough*DeeAnna*cough* will try.


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## Rune (Jun 7, 2018)

The last first. I read earlier that DeeAnna wrote something about it. I could not remember exactly what, so I did not mention it. But it was something with that expensive butters degrading down to fatty acids during curing time, so what you added to the soap to begin with is not what you will get in the end, if I don't remember completely wrong.  I really don't understand fats and oils in the first place. And I definately don't understand butters and how they differ from oils apart from having more stearic acid. But what DeeAnna wrote quite some time ago about the butters added after saponification in HP, does make sense. Everything changes with time, so it would be strange if not time should change for example shea butter in one way or the other.

This is far out, but I think oil paintings might be a good example. Pigments and oil gets mixed and painted on a canvas. To begin with it is just that, oil and pigments. But with time the oil hardens to rock hard, like glass. Time, oxygen and light makes the paint crack up like enamel on ceramics. But it was just oil and pigments to begin with. The superfats in soap must also change in one way or another. So I think it makes sense. I will try to find out what DeeAnna exactly wrote.

Yes, you are right. CP is much faster. I did a CP last, and it was so quick that I was shaky afterwards. I had of course messed it up, again, by dumping boiling hot lye in my cold process, and thought I had to mold it quick before it became unmanageable. It went just fine, and I made designs too. Not exactly tall and skinny shimmy, as supposed to, i had too much hurry, so it ended up with blobs of dark brown in orange soap, and some tiger stripes. Not bad.

Yes, it is the same process in the end, unless you need you soap to be saponified before you add an ingredient that can be altered by active lye. Judged by Youtube, I have the impression that many HP soapers experiment with adding this and that before the cook, and this and that after the cook. Some add a lot of different things to their soaps in different stages. For example did Shalebrook Handcrafted Soap add apple cider vinegar after the cook to boost bubbles. And those who believes in skin benefits of everything, they add all sorts of benefitial things after the cook. I don't believe in such things myself for a wash off product. Hardly for a leave on product either.


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## Parfumerie (Jun 12, 2018)

So I think I'm gonna do hot process later today to force the gel and shorter curing stage, can you do it in a crockpot without the lid, a friend gave me one but didnt have one and if I don't have to buy a new one that would be great


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## dixiedragon (Jun 12, 2018)

I think it would be difficult without a lid. Your soap will get dry and the heat won't be able to build up. But you could put a pot lid on top and that would help.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jun 12, 2018)

Don't try using aluminum foil as a cover.  Maybe a plate, or a lid from another of your stock pots?


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## Parfumerie (Jun 12, 2018)

Ok thanks going shopping now I should be able to find something at the thrift store hopefully


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## BrewerGeorge (Jun 12, 2018)

BTW, hot process is NOT a shorter curing stage - no matter what you may have read elsewhere.


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## Parfumerie (Jun 12, 2018)

Oh really I've read that a lot of places, any idea why the misconception if it is one


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## Desederata (Jun 12, 2018)

Rune said:


> Another important thing with HP, is that you can decide what is going to be soap and what is going to be superfat. I follow some HP-soapmakers on Youtube, and it seems like that is the most important reason behind them doing hot process instead of cold process. They make soap of cheap fats and use the expensive butters as superfat, for example.
> 
> I have also read that castile soaps gets better done HP than CP. But I have no clue if that is the case or not.
> 
> ...



I made some really nice lemon CP soap recently and used three different EOs. It smelled great but now there isn't a trace of scent left. Why don't the citrus oils hold their scent? Maybe I didn't use enough?


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## Desederata (Jun 12, 2018)

BrewerGeorge said:


> Experience will matter for both methods, of course, but I still feel that CP is slightly easier/faster.  It's easy to make a false equivalence between the two methods by not choosing similar finished products.  The _vast_ majority of HP soap is going to be a single color with no decoration, whereas I suspect it's pretty rare that many CP soaps are made without at least an ITP swirl - and many are more complicated still.  It's easy to compare that basic HP soap that just takes a few minutes to a CP design with several more process steps.
> 
> FWIW, I can have a single-color CP soap in the mold in 20 minutes or less using prebatched lye solution.  Getting everything ready and putting it away afterward takes longer than the soaping process itself.  I don't usually do that, but I _can_.  Conversely there are advanced HP processes that allow multiple colors, swirls and the like, but they are more rarely performed (I think) and take more time and effort.
> 
> ...



I have a question. You mentioned using pre-batch lye. How do you heat this mixture before using? Doesn't it have to be warm to mix with the oils in CP soap making? Can you put it in the microwave. The reason I ask this is because when making my last batch I heated my oils way too much and had to wait a long time for them to cool down. I was getting in a panic because my lye mixture was cooling down too. They're supposed to be within ten degrees of each other before mixing right?


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## shunt2011 (Jun 12, 2018)

Desederata said:


> I have a question. You mentioned using pre-batch lye. How do you heat this mixture before using? Doesn't it have to be warm to mix with the oils in CP soap making? Can you put it in the microwave. The reason I ask this is because when making my last batch I heated my oils way too much and had to wait a long time for them to cool down. I was getting in a panic because my lye mixture was cooling down too. They're supposed to be within ten degrees of each other before mixing right?



Not the OP but no.  Many of us master batch our lye as well as our oils.   I make a large batch of lye 50/50 mix and store it until ready to make soap.   I measure out the required amount of lye mixture and the add the needed water/milk to bring it up to the total amount needed per the soap calculator  for my batch. It will warm up some but not get as hot as fresh lye mixture.      I master batch my oils as well and then just heat them until clear and then I'm ready to go.


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## shunt2011 (Jun 12, 2018)

Desederata said:


> I have a question. You mentioned using pre-batch lye. How do you heat this mixture before using? Doesn't it have to be warm to mix with the oils in CP soap making? Can you put it in the microwave. The reason I ask this is because when making my last batch I heated my oils way too much and had to wait a long time for them to cool down. I was getting in a panic because my lye mixture was cooling down too. They're supposed to be within ten degrees of each other before mixing right?



Not the OP but no.  Many of us master batch our lye as well as our oils.   I make a large batch of lye 50/50 mix and store it until ready to make soap.   I measure out the required amount of lye mixture and the add the needed water/milk to bring it up to the total amount needed per the soap calculator  for my batch. It will warm up some but not get as hot as fresh lye mixture.      I master batch my oils as well and then just heat them until clear and then I'm ready to go.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jun 12, 2018)

Parfumerie said:


> Oh really I've read that a lot of places, any idea why the misconception if it is one


It's a misunderstanding of the difference between "safe" and "cured." 

HP soap is (should be) fully saponified into soap before you pour it into molds.  Assuming a good recipe there will be no excess lye and it will pass zap test immediately.  It's "safe" to cut and use as soon as it hardens.  In fact you can wash with it before it even hardens, like using the residue in the pot to clean the pot - without gloves.  But it's FAR from the best soap it can be at that point. 

CP soap, though, is poured at varying degrees of trace and finishes saponification over the next few hours to few days.  Trying to wash THAT pot immediately (use gloves!) will be an oily mess of unreacted oil and excess lye.  Depending on recipe and process, it may still be zapping and soft two days later.  But it WILL finish shortly and harden enough to be cut.  At that point it will be just as safe as the HP was immediately.  However, the CP soap is ALSO not yet ready at its best.

I'm talking qualitative characteristics like bubbles, longevity, creaminess, etc.  Give it a month to cure and it will be very noticeably better.  After two months there will be a night-and-day difference.  A year and an uniformed stranger would not believe they are the same recipe.  Curing does all kinds of things to make better soap, and there is no way to rush it (outside of a factory).  HP might give you a very few days head start, but that's not relevant in the context of a two month default cure time.  Besides, HP soap often uses more water which slows down its rate of cure enough to obviate those few days head start at the beginning.

Not that you shouldn't make HP soap.  Just be aware that it still needs to cure just like CP to be its best.


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## cmzaha (Jun 12, 2018)

Parfumerie said:


> So I think I'm gonna do hot process later today to force the gel and shorter curing stage, can you do it in a crockpot without the lid, a friend gave me one but didnt have one and if I don't have to buy a new one that would be great


Nothing shortens "Cure" time, the key here is the word Cure not drying time. Actually hp does not shorten drying time either since if usually contains more liquid.


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## Parfumerie (Jun 12, 2018)

Desederata said:


> I made some really nice lemon CP soap recently and used three different EOs. It smelled great but now there isn't a trace of scent left. Why don't the citrus oils hold their scent? Maybe I didn't use enough?



Most fragrance notes like in a perfume for example are accords built from multiple ingredients (eo's, absolutes, co2 extractions and aromachemicals), citrus oils are considered top notes because you smell them at the opening of a (French style) fragrance and they are gone shortly after because they evaporate the quickest there are some aromachemicals that smell like citrus and last but I don't know how they would perform in a soap check out White Lotus Aromatics & Perfumer's apprentice if you're interested, I think from my understanding of flashpoint if they're not being flashed by heat and you're using an adequate volume then that's why.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jun 12, 2018)

Desederata said:


> I have a question. You mentioned using pre-batch lye. How do you heat this mixture before using? Doesn't it have to be warm to mix with the oils in CP soap making? Can you put it in the microwave. The reason I ask this is because when making my last batch I heated my oils way too much and had to wait a long time for them to cool down. I was getting in a panic because my lye mixture was cooling down too. They're supposed to be within ten degrees of each other before mixing right?


I somehow missed this question earlier, sorry...

50/50 lye solution warms up naturally when you add the rest of the water before mixing everything.  - like shunt said.  Not nearly as much as mixing powdered lye, but just the right amount.

At the risk of opening another tangent, having the temps close isn't as important as you may have been lead to believe.  (See the thread going on now about using just-dissolved, hot lye to melt hard oils.)  IDK where the 10 degree difference thing came from, but I'd guess it is an attempt to mitigate the non-instinctual enthalpy (heat capacity) of both oils and dense lye solutions to make it easier to  hit a target temperature after they're mixed.


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## RobynB (Jun 12, 2018)

Plastic wrap works great on a crock with no lid


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## Parfumerie (Jun 12, 2018)

How do you decide the water to lye ratio


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## BrewerGeorge (Jun 12, 2018)

Parfumerie said:


> How do you decide the water to lye ratio


Water ratio is one of the several variables that influence things like how fast a mix traces and how it gels (or if it does).  Things like temperature and oil recipe are the other variables.

Someone else will be a better choice to help with the water question.  I personally chose 33% lye solution (thats a 2:1 water:lye ratio) and never vary it.  The 33% is an easy and (mostly) fool-proof process for pre-batched lye, and never varying it gives me a set expectation for behavior as I vary the other factors to achieve the desired result.  For example, if I want to slow trace for more working time I will change recipe and lower temps.  Others might change water ratios and temp but leave recipe alone.  Many will do all the above.  You have to experiment and let experience tell you what works well for you.


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## jcandleattic (Jun 12, 2018)

. Nevermind I thought I was posting to the most recent reply, but it was in the middle of page 1.


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## Parfumerie (Jun 12, 2018)

Alright so I'm off and soaping!

I adjusted my recipe after a little more looking around and wound up going with:

14oz. each of
Palm Oil
Coconut Oil
Olive Oil (extra virgin)

1.9oz.
Castor Oil

3.5oz Cocoa Butter

33% for the lye:
Water
15.43oz.
NaOH
6.84oz.

I guess I'm gonna go cp and put it in the fridge to prevent the gel phase, just letting the lye and oils cool now before I blend!


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## Holly8991 (Jun 12, 2018)

I like to HP.  I put a seran type wrap across the top called Stretch Tight.  I just get it at Publix but they probably carry it in most grocery stores.  It a heavier version of cling wrap and it holds great without melting on your crockpot.  The best benefit is that you can use your digital thermometer thought it and also see through it better than a lid.


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## Wilda Gallagher (Jun 12, 2018)

Parfumerie said:


> So I think I'm gonna do hot process later today to force the gel and shorter curing stage, can you do it in a crockpot without the lid, a friend gave me one but didnt have one and if I don't have to buy a new one that would be great


You can use plastic wrap to keep the moisture  in.


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## Parfumerie (Jun 12, 2018)

So everything went smoothly except for so many tiny bubbles, I tipped and tapped the blender yet still got them.  I searched the internet and found this 
YouTube video:


where a woman explains the need to drill holes into the top of the bell on stick blenders with slots like mine saying air still gets trapped underneath, oh well there will be more batches in the near future I've got a source for a bunch of free tallow ill be getting into soon


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## Primrose (Jun 12, 2018)

Havent watched the video but my stick blender looks exactly like that and I don't have any problems.

You can tap your mould down on the counter after pouring too to help remove bubbles.


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## Parfumerie (Jun 12, 2018)

As I'm reading more about it, I may have been too vigorous with the blender or I need a new one due to the bell size/shape also the one I have is maybe too strong it was creating vortices and suctioning to the bottom even on lowest of 3 settings, I did bang the mold but it didn't help much.


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## Lin19687 (Jun 13, 2018)

Check the BLADE.
I have 2 blenders, I switched out for my Extra when I was going 2 batches. I got bubbles, no matter how much I tilted and banged.
Turns out it is the attachment, most likely the blade got slightly bent and that is what the issue it.

I now just wipe off the attachment between batches


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## BrewerGeorge (Jun 13, 2018)

Re: the stick blender...

I suspect you didn't have enough liquid in the bowl to submerge the SB enough to stop it pulling new air down into the bell.  Or if you did, you let vortexes form like mini tornados to pull air down.  

You have to use enough liquid (or a bowl small enough) to cover the top of the bell by about half an inch to have a chance.  Even with that, though, I usually have to use a spoon to disrupt the flow pattern while the SB is running.  Or use short pulses to stop the vortexes from forming in the first place.

Also, never EVER drill holes in the top of the bell.  That's a recipe for a soap-batter fountain.


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## Parfumerie (Jun 13, 2018)

I will check that blade for any deformities when I get home later.  I'm thinking it's due to what brewer George is talking about though, the liquid was just about 1/2" or so above the bell, I was ready to get out some time snips and trim the bottom off ) but I'm going to make a larger batch today or tomorrow and try to go slower, it wasn't tracing right away like I see in a lot of videos so I blended more than I probably should have too and when I stopped for a minute to see if it would separate it went from slight trace to a thick pudding really quick


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## Lin19687 (Jun 13, 2018)

Also instead of a larger batch, just find a smaller and taller mixing bowl.  If it is a tiny batch, use a tall plastic cup.  The kind that come with some SB'ers


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jun 13, 2018)

^^^ this. The best soaping containers are those that give you a deeper rather than wider batter, but still with some room from the top of the batter to the top of the container. I have some stainless steel jugs which would give me that with a tiny batch. But you can mix in plastic just as well, and I think that plastic containers are easier to get in various shapes


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## amal (Jun 17, 2018)

BrewerGeorge said:


> If it were me, I'd do 50% palm, 30% olive, 20% coconut, but that's a personal preference for keeping olive below 1/3 of a balanced bar and limiting coconut to a fifth.  There's nothing wrong with it as written.
> 
> I'd skip the layers your first time.  Pick one and do that.  Layers require a much thicker trace to be stable and you're going to be too anxious your first time to wait for it.  Alternatively, if you MUST do the layers do them side-by-side by separating your mold with a piece of cardboard cut to size placed down the middle.  Secure it in place and pour both sides, then remove after the tamping down.  But I would definitely not try horizontal layers the first time.


sorry for disturbance but why its preferable to reduce the amount of olive oil to 1/3 the recipe????????


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## snappyllama (Jun 17, 2018)

amal said:


> sorry for disturbance but why its preferable to reduce the amount of olive oil to 1/3 the recipe????????



I'll jump in with my opinion. A lot of folks don't like heavy olive oil recipes since they can feel slimy (all that Oleic acid).  When I go above 30% with olive oil, I tack on an additional month of cure time for each 10% increase (roughly) to help keep the stringy/sliminess at bay. The only time I do that is on a vegetarian, palm-free recipe with a lot of butters to up the stearic. 

It's a personal preference thing though.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jun 18, 2018)

snappyllama said:


> I'll jump in with my opinion. A lot of folks don't like heavy olive oil recipes since they can feel slimy (all that Oleic acid).  When I go above 30% with olive oil, I tack on an additional month of cure time for each 10% increase (roughly) to help keep the stringy/sliminess at bay. The only time I do that is on a vegetarian, palm-free recipe with a lot of butters to up the stearic.
> 
> It's a personal preference thing though.


Agreed.


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## Parfumerie (Jun 20, 2018)

Hello so I un-molded and cut my soap today and a few concerns, it's still zappy which I've read is normal and can take longer if you don't gel.  There was a fairly thick layer of soda ash on top that was crumbly and the sides were a little crumbly which I trimmed and the soap was still very soft and kind of looks like it's in the gel phase, I put it in the fridge for 2 days which is set to as cold as can go without freezing anything.  Any ideas why it turned out like that (it was in a sunny place could that have caused drying maybe, also my lye was not clumpy and got very warm) and will it improve or do I need to do something to it

Exact recipe was:
Water 438g
Lye 194g
Oils 1,325g


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## msunnerstood (Jun 20, 2018)

Parfumerie said:


> So I think I'm gonna do hot process later today to force the gel and shorter curing stage, can you do it in a crockpot without the lid, a friend gave me one but didnt have one and if I don't have to buy a new one that would be great


If you dont have a lid I recommend saran or other plastic wrap. HP loses moisture as it cooks and can get dried out without a lid.


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## Parfumerie (Jun 20, 2018)

msunnerstood said:


> If you dont have a lid I recommend saran or other plastic wrap. HP loses moisture as it cooks and can get dried out without a lid.



I did originally plan to do hp but ended up going  cold process

I suppose ill just have to wait and see what happens as long as the lye all saponifies it'll at least be a nice soap to use, I washed my hands with it after cutting and it was creamy and bubbly and made my skin feel soft even if it did slightly chemical burn.  

I've got like 10lbs of rendered tallow that I need to clean and then get started on my next one! probably this weekend

So anyone who might be following; my soap finished saponifying and is firming up nicely although I don't think it'll become a hard bar (but who knows), I'm ok if it doesn't it's already very nice soap aside from aesthetics and can't wait to see how it develops as it cures, I was doing a little digging to find a reason for the thick soda ash and crumbling and I read somewhere that the rapid cooling of the soap was the reason for it so I guess next batch I'm gonna try gelling


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## steffamarie (Jun 23, 2018)

I've made three batches so far of CP and was wondering if people have had much experience using cocoa powder as a colorant? I'd like to make a soap with coffee grounds for exfoliation and maybe sub coffee for the water in the lye solution. I like the idea of a dark brown color and maybe branding it as a mocha soap. Is it worth the hassle to use cocoa powder? I feel like it would dry out the soap and be difficult/clumpy to blend in. Maybe I'd just be better off using some dark brown oxide and a mocha FO...


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## lenarenee (Jun 23, 2018)

steffamarie said:


> I've made three batches so far of CP and was wondering if people have had much experience using cocoa powder as a colorant? I'd like to make a soap with coffee grounds for exfoliation and maybe sub coffee for the water in the lye solution. I like the idea of a dark brown color and maybe branding it as a mocha soap. Is it worth the hassle to use cocoa powder? I feel like it would dry out the soap and be difficult/clumpy to blend in. Maybe I'd just be better off using some dark brown oxide and a mocha FO...



On this forum I've seen many people who use cocoa as a brown colorant and are happy with it. I did once - but only to make a very light brown, which it did.


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## steffamarie (Jun 23, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> On this forum I've seen many people who use cocoa as a brown colorant and are happy with it. I did once - but only to make a very light brown, which it did.


I'll have to try it out!! Did you disperse it in some of your oils?


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## lenarenee (Jun 23, 2018)

steffamarie said:


> I'll have to try it out!! Did you disperse it in some of your oils?



I did; in fact I let it sit for several minutes to make sure it soaked up some oils, then stick blended again to assure it was thoroughly mixed.


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## steffamarie (Jun 23, 2018)

lenarenee said:


> I did; in fact I let it sit for several minutes to make sure it soaked up some oils, then stick blended again to assure it was thoroughly mixed.


Beautiful. Thank you!!! I'll probably try that sometime this week. I've got some used coffee grounds spread out to dry at the moment.


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## Alfa_Lazcares (Jun 24, 2018)

steffamarie said:


> I've made three batches so far of CP and was wondering if people have had much experience using cocoa powder as a colorant? I'd like to make a soap with coffee grounds for exfoliation and maybe sub coffee for the water in the lye solution. I like the idea of a dark brown color and maybe branding it as a mocha soap. Is it worth the hassle to use cocoa powder? I feel like it would dry out the soap and be difficult/clumpy to blend in. Maybe I'd just be better off using some dark brown oxide and a mocha FO...



I did a few weeks ago. I separated the batter in to two batches and one i colored with cocoa powder. I just put the powder in the batter (on a very thin trace) and stick blended it. After it was mostly blended i gave it a mix with a spatula to make sure i had no chocolate clumps and proceded to mold (made a basic swirl). I had no issues with it. Here is a photo of the soap the next day after i cut it:


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## Lin19687 (Jun 24, 2018)

I LIKE IT !!


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## steffamarie (Jun 24, 2018)

Alfa_Lazcares said:


> I did a few weeks ago. I separated the batter in to two batches and one i colored with cocoa powder. I just put the powder in the batter (on a very thin trace) and stick blended it. After it was mostly blended i gave it a mix with a spatula to make sure i had no chocolate clumps and proceded to mold (made a basic swirl). I had no issues with it. Here is a photo of the soap the next day after i cut it: View attachment 30842


That looks awesome!!! Ok, you guys have me feeling good about this.


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## earlene (Jun 24, 2018)

I have made coffee soap with cocoa powder, also.  Depending on how much of each is used, the color can be light to very dark.  One of my soaps with cocoa powder was a very dark brown.  I don't recall how exactly I dispersed it in that soap, but I would guess I mixed the powder into the batter while stick blending.  One can choose to add it to very hot water, or oils, or even the lye solution.    I did not feel as though it was at all difficult or a hassle using the cocoa powder.


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## Parfumerie (Jun 24, 2018)

I was reading using coffee for the water can make it Brown? Cocoa nibs would probably be darker than powder maybe, but i dont know if youd have to account for the fat/cocoa butter in them, you could also mix colors too micas or other natural colorants together, mixing primary colors red+yellow+blue makes Brown or a primary with complementary orange+blue, purple+yellow, red & green makes shades of brown.


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## steffamarie (Jun 24, 2018)

Parfumerie said:


> I was reading using coffee for the water can make it Brown?  Cocoa nibs would probably be darker than powder maybe, but i dont know if youd have to account for the fat/cocoa butter in them, you could also mix colors too micas or other natural colorants together, mixing primary colors red+yellow+blue makes Brown or a primary with complementary orange+blue, purple+yellow, red & green makes shades of brown.


I've seen some people make coffee soaps on YouTube and it turned them a lighter brown than I was wanting, but I'm sure it'll help!! Hmm...color mixing might work. If the cocoa powder doesn't do what I want it to I might just try that!! Thanks!


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## Parfumerie (Jun 24, 2018)

steffamarie said:


> I've seen some people make coffee soaps on YouTube and it turned them a lighter brown than I was wanting, but I'm sure it'll help!! Hmm...color mixing might work. If the cocoa powder doesn't do what I want it to I might just try that!! Thanks!



I wonder if the darkness of the roast and/or  bean to water ratio saturation plays a role in depth or hue, I'm gonna use some clays in my next soap for color and texture, I love the earthy look and the way it feels


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## steffamarie (Jun 24, 2018)

Parfumerie said:


> I wonder if the darkness of the roast and/or  bean to water ratio saturation plays a role in depth or hue, I'm gonna use some clays in my next soap for color and texture, I love the earthy look and the way it feels


I'm sure it does!! I just made an activated charcoal soap with bentonite, rhassoul, and kaolin clays. I'm excited to see how they perform once they cure!! I had some issues with my last batch being veeeeeery soft but I tweaked a different recipe (I don't have any palm oil) and used some dissolved table salt to harden this charcoal batch and it worked really well. It did set up REALLY fast on me even though I used full water, and I'm sure the clays were the main culprit. You learn something new every day!!


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## earlene (Jun 24, 2018)

I searched my photos and do not have any (recently lost a hard drive), not even saved anywhere online that I can find, or I would post a picture of one of my cocoa powder colored coffee soaps. The shades of brown I have achieved however, are really quite dark. Coffee liquid itself, does not make a very dark soap, in my experience.  Coffee grounds do contribute to a darker soap, but that depends on how much you use and of course, it will be mottled.  But the darkest I have got was with all three.  As to intensity of color, you just have to experiment.  MANY factors can alter your shade of soap.

Fragrances with vanilla will darken your soap.  Dragon's Blood FO will darken your soap, as will several other fragrance oils.  Darkly colored soaping oils will darken your soap. Honey will darken your soap.  So if you want a deeper brown, try using some combination of the above, as well.  Keep really good notes so you know what shades/colors you get with each try.

If you want a creamy latte colored soap, however, you might want to avoid the vanilla-heavy fragrances and Dragon's Blood, especially if you are going for a lengthy cure.  DB soaps I've made over a year ago still seem darker every couple of months.

If you want a rich chestnut brown color, try using a small percentage of perhaps red palm oil to help the browns to look a bit reddish.  I haven't tried that myself, but I really think it would work because soap I've made with red palm comes out a looking a lot like the insides of a pumpkin pie.


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## steffamarie (Jun 24, 2018)

earlene said:


> I searched my photos and do not have any (recently lost a hard drive), not even saved anywhere online that I can find, or I would post a picture of one of my cocoa powder colored coffee soaps. The shades of brown I have achieved however, are really quite dark. Coffee liquid itself, does not make a very dark soap, in my experience.  Coffee grounds do contribute to a darker soap, but that depends on how much you use and of course, it will be mottled.  But the darkest I have got was with all three.  As to intensity of color, you just have to experiment.  MANY factors can alter your shade of soap.
> 
> Fragrances with vanilla will darken your soap.  Dragon's Blood FO will darken your soap, as will several other fragrance oils.  Darkly colored soaping oils will darken your soap. Honey will darken your soap.  So if you want a deeper brown, try using some combination of the above, as well.  Keep really good notes so you know what shades/colors you get with each try.
> 
> ...


Oooooh!! All great tips!! Thank you!! I'll do some hunting around for a good FO with a decent percentage of vanillin. Any recommendations that stand out in your mind? I love a good exfoliating soap so I plan on using a fairly large amount of coffee grounds. 

I'll look around and see if I can get a little red palm oil - sounds like it would add a beautiful depth of color to this and other soaps. Maybe I'll even make a pumpkin pie soap for fall! So many ideas, how do I even keep track of them all?!


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## earlene (Jun 24, 2018)

For a really lovely fragrance that will continue to darken soaps, try Dragon's Blood.  It's one of my favorite scents.  I have one that I got from Mad Oils (now called Mad Micas) and one from our member cmzaha, that she special orders periodically (see this thread for more info).  Also another vanilla containing FO I really love the fragrance of is Chai Tea Cybila (BB).  The Chai Tea Cybila gets mixed reviews, which you should always take into account before purchase, but personally I love the fragrance.  It doesn't last as long as DB, though, but it also doesn't darken as strongly.

I am sure others will come along with other suggestions of fragrance oils.


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