# No soap, just relationship venting.



## not_ally (Aug 1, 2015)

I  must be the most guy-like woman on earth, I inevitably get check-in emails (for years) from guys I have gone out with, including ones that obviously did not want to keep going out with me on a physical/romantic basis.  They just want to say hello, and check in and get opinions on what I think is going on in their lives and other stuff. ("Yes, Peter, I am really happy the new Harper Lee manuscript is being published. And don't keep going out w/the woman who seems to want you for green-card access.")  

I really think it is b/c although I am a woman, I am kind of like a guy in a lot of ways, including in the "OK, that didn't work, I wish you the very best and lets both move on" one.  I am wondering, in addition to the "50 is the new thirty", "geeky is the new sexy", is there a new "guys are the new girls" and vice versa thing?  Some of this is tongue in cheek, but it does make me wonder, both about myself and the changes in the world.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Aug 1, 2015)

I think that there is a happy middle ground between 'she belongs in the kitchen' and 'there is no difference between men and women' - while I think the stereotypical gender roles are wrong in that they are distortions of what they were meant to be, I also feel that ignoring them completely has led us down a much worse path. There are always exceptions, but men are from Mars and women are from Venus in the main. 

That is not to say that women should be discriminated against (for example, paid less for the same level of work in the same job) because of that, but we also shouldn't ignore the fact that men and women are different.

Now, as to your question - I think that far too many guys want to have their cake and eat it. They don't want to be with a certain gal, but they still 'want to be friends' which is usually really damaging to the girl as they tend to be less pragmatic and hold on to hope. It does seem like you are far more pragmatic in your approach, which is great to see, but I know tha it is not always the case


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## Saponista (Aug 1, 2015)

I am so very different to my mother that she is constantly mortified with my appearance/actions pretty much everything I do. 

She was an older mother so she is nearly two generations older than me. 

I am expected to behave how a 'young lady' should. Sadly I have never conformed to her ideals. 

I barely ever wear dresses or heels, make up is for special occasions and I am far more at home grubbing around in the garden shed than at a dinner party. I also box (and I am pretty good at it!) which she doesn't even like to talk about in front of other people, she certainly would never come and watch me. 

I don't think the situation is that women are more like men, I just think these days we are more free to express ourselves in any way we please without fear of the consequences.


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## navigator9 (Aug 1, 2015)

Or you could see it as someone whose opinion they value, even if the relationship didn't make it. Someone who they still want in their life.... they want to know that you're there when they feel the need to reach out. You can see it as endearing.....or kind of selfish. In reality, it's more about their needs than yours. I've had relationships like that, too. I don't think it has anything to do with being guy-like.


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## IrishLass (Aug 1, 2015)

Not_ally- I have a very good guy friend who I feel is more like a sister than a brother to me in a sense, because he can talk my ear off just like all my gal friends do, and is not afraid to talk to me about all the ups and downs of his relationships, etc..., just like my gal friends do. lol 

My hubby, on the other hand is a lot like Mr. Spock from Star Trek and is all about the logic and being practical. Once our son was born, though, it was like the Tin Man getting a heart, and then he let more emotions come through. He's still very logical/pragmatic, though- a lot of which has rubbed off on me, which is funny because when we first got married, I was just a big ball of emotional silly/giggly/girly/gooeyness without an ounce of logic in me. It's really cool how our marriage has worked out that way- like we each grew away from the extremes to meet more in the middle. He's still more of a pragmatic Martian than me and I'm still more of an emotional Venusian than him, but it's like we complement each other now in those departments instead of coming to blows over them. It's a beautiful thing- like lye and oils coming together to make a beautiful bar of soap.


IrishLass


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## LittleCrazyWolf (Aug 1, 2015)

Saponista said:


> I am so very different to my mother that she is constantly mortified with my appearance/actions pretty much everything I do.
> 
> She was an older mother so she is nearly two generations older than me.
> 
> ...


 
This. Women and men used to be pigeon-holed into almost a script that told us how to behave, how to feel, what activities we could enjoy, even what we could aspire to be. 

I don't think it's weird that old boyfriends want to stay in touch. Especially since the breakups were mutual and amicable. To be honest, I wish I had that kind of outlook when I was younger. I had some ok boyfriends that would have made great friends.


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## LittleCrazyWolf (Aug 1, 2015)

IrishLass, I love the way you described how you and your husband have influenced and changed each other for the better. My hubby and I are so different but put us together and we make a great team.


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## ferret (Aug 1, 2015)

First, bless you for having a place to talk about relationships
Saponista- I can relate to what you are saying. My mom errs on the Nice Lady side of things where I go mostly to *****y yelling when angered. It's been a challenge because I'm not raising my daughter to be nice. I don't make her give kisses or hugs to anyone, which is almost unheard of in my family.

IrishLass- I can totally relate to the husband as robot, but I'm not sure mine got a whole heart after having children-- maybe part of one.


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## IrishLass (Aug 1, 2015)

LittleCrazyWolf said:


> IrishLass, I love the way you described how you and your husband have influenced and changed each other for the better. My hubby and I are so different but put us together and we make a great team.


 
Yes- a 'great team' is an excellent way of putting it.  I must confess there were more than a few years near the beginning of our marriage where we almost divorced over our differences (we were such polar opposites, it wasn't even the least bit funny), but we both got to a point where we were (thankfully) able to see those differences in a different light and work them out to a much more positive advantage for us both and the marriage as a whole. We've been married 30 years now and have grown to be each other's best friend (with benefits, of course  ).


IrishLass


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## not_ally (Aug 1, 2015)

IL, I love the sound of your marriage,  it reminds me of my sister's.  They too are like chalk and cheese and had some tough times, but when I am at their house now and see my BIL automatically give my sister a mini-neck rub when she gets back from work, it is pretty darn sweet.  I am pretty commitment-phobic (52 and never married, obviously some issues there) but every once in a while I see a couple that makes me wish that I could do it, your's sounds like one of those.

I know those guys are not trying to be a pain, it just makes me tired sometimes, and wish they could talk to their *actual* girlfriends/wives.

ETA:  Sap, I kind of want to shake your mom.  Sorry.


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## Seawolfe (Aug 1, 2015)

NA - I guess it boils down to what "YOU" want out of these. If you feel like its one sided, and you are giving without getting anything back, then it's time to start fading out of their lives. With friends, or any relationship really, it can't just be one sided.

We have all met the guys who are incapable of having any female friends because they think we are a different species, so I like to see guys reaching out. But there has to be some give and take!


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## not_ally (Aug 2, 2015)

I agree with pretty much everything you said, Sea.  The problem sometimes is that if I *don't* answer I get follow-up emails saying "why didn't you answer?  Is anything wrong?"   If it is not, I don't want to explain, and if it is,  I also usually don't want to explain   Not Peter, though, he checks in every six months or so no matter how much I don't respond, I think his gfs must be beautiful but not listening types


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## Susie (Aug 2, 2015)

I have more guy friends than girl ones, so I am not a good one to answer.  I also never, ever converted a BF into a "friend".  But I did convert my best friend into my husband...

However, here is my criteria on friends in general.  If I feel that I am getting less good out of the relationship than I am giving to the other person, then I let them know that I am moving on without them.  I call it weeding my garden. (which I actually stole from someone I weeded out, ironically enough)  Weeds suck your emotional reserves without giving you nourishment back.  They need to go.


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## nsmar4211 (Aug 2, 2015)

You can always be blunt and tell them "you only call/write when YOU have issues...so this is one sided. Talk to your GIRLFRIEND about your relationship".

Easy to say huh? :shock:

I'm not going to lie and say someday you'll find the perfect one...but you might find someone workable. Or you might not and you'll be fine . Having friends never hurts though. :razz:


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## navigator9 (Aug 2, 2015)

Seawolfe said:


> NA - I guess it boils down to what "YOU" want out of these. If you feel like its one sided, and you are giving without getting anything back, then it's time to start fading out of their lives. With friends, or any relationship really, it can't just be one sided.
> 
> We have all met the guys who are incapable of having any female friends because they think we are a different species, so I like to see guys reaching out. But there has to be some give and take!



Agreed. A healthy relationship has to go both ways. If someone only calls when they need a listener, that's selfish. If they also call at other times just to find out how you're doing, that's a different story. If you're a giving kind of person, there are always others willing to take. It really needs to go both ways or you end up feeling drained and burn out.


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## LittleCrazyWolf (Aug 2, 2015)

This goes for other relationships too. My mom tends to deplete my emotional energy. She rarely calls just to check in with me, instead she calls to vent about her health, her doctor, her job, her co-workers, her bills, her friends, family members, my brother, my dad, EVERYTHING. Sometimes I feel like a therapist! I rarely get a word in. When she's done unloading she ends the phone call. So I learned that if I want to have an actual conversation with my mom then I need to call when my dad is home.

I don't think I could handle a one way friendship. For my own emotional health I would have to fade out of that person's life.


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## dillsandwitch (Aug 5, 2015)

Wow LCL sound like my mum. When i lived in the same city that she did she would call me everyday with something. Now i live in another state and i think i have had maybe 2 phone calls in 2 years. Now that i am no longer within driving distance im not interesting enough for her or not usefull enough anymore. Sucks really. 

On another note i try to give my dad a call at least once a week to see how hes doing. Just to talk about anything. Thats the worst thing about being so far away is that i cant just jump in my car and go for a quick visit.


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