# Watery liquid soap, could this be my problem?



## Carl (Dec 16, 2018)

I'm on about my 3rd or 4th batch of liquid soap.  Every batch so far has seemed to be more watery than I want.  I've been using about a 60/40 mix of water to paste meaning 60% distilled water to 40% paste by weight.

Still very light and watery.

Today I realized I have not been using boiling water to dilute.  I've been pouring room temp distilled in the croc pot to dilute.

Could this be the reason why it is so watery?  

Think if I try again tomorrow with boiled water it will change?


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## Obsidian (Dec 16, 2018)

No, changing the water isn't going to change the viscosity. Try using 60% paste, 40% water. If that doesn't work, you might just have to use a thickener like crothix.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 16, 2018)

I agree with Obsidian -- simply dilute more soap with less water. 

Or use a thickener like HEC or HPMC that works independently of the soap concentration. 

Or try a little salt if using a high oleic recipe. Keep in mind salt won't do much to thicken a soap that's overly diluted. It will also reduce lather somewhat. If a little salt works well, then STOP. Adding more will make the soap thin out again.

I usually dilute at room temp -- no hot water, no crock pot -- and it gets me exactly the same result as when I dilute with heat, except I don't have to hover. 

You can't assume the dilution that works for one person's soap will work for your soap. Batches made by the same soaper will vary slightly too. The dilution that works for one of my batches might not be quite right for the next one, although it's usually pretty close if using the same recipe and method.


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## Carl (Dec 16, 2018)

Thanks.  Yesterday I really thought I had it.  The paste cooked for about 3 hours total and it just looked so right compared to what I've seen in the videos (it was similar).  Did my dilute and went to bed.

Paste dissolved and I hot a pot of soapy water, lol.

It bubbles and all that, but it just like holding water in your hand.  It's that thin, even after adding fragrance oil and some PS80


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## Zany_in_CO (Dec 16, 2018)

Watery LS is just the nature of the beast. The key is the choice of oils you use. For example, 100% coconut oil can be diluted at 40% soap to 60% water and the consistency is similar to shampoo. 100% olive oil LS needs to be diluted at 15-20% soap to 85-80% water and it makes lovely lather but thin LS.  Olive oil LS can be thickened with salt brine. Coconut oil LS cannot. 

Here's a link to a site that talks about thickening LS:
http://alaiynab.blogspot.com/search/label/tutorial

There are several options for thickening LS but the best place to start, to my mind at least, is choosing oils that give the best result without having to add any thickening aids.

For example, 50% coconut oil + 50% liquid oils of choice is a good starting place. A 40:60 ratio is what I usually use with this combo. You can tell when the water has incorporated the optimum amount of soap when a film forms on the surface. Add more water, bit by bit, until the film no longer forms.

HTH


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## DeeAnna (Dec 17, 2018)

You don't need to cook the paste for hours either. This honestly doesn't accomplish anything besides take up your time and waste energy. You can use heat while bringing the soap to trace, but at that point turn off the heat, cover the pot, and walk away. It will finish saponifying all on its own with residual heat.


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## Zany_in_CO (Dec 17, 2018)

DeeAnna said:


> You can use heat while bringing the soap to trace, but at that point turn off the heat, cover the pot, and walk away. It will finish saponifying all on its own with residual heat.


Good advice. Newbies often are unable to judge how long to cook the soap. I have done this many times. The next morning I either have a mass of "vaseline" that tests neutral with a drop of phenolphthalein, or I leave it for a week or two until it does test neutral before diluting.


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## KimT2au (Dec 18, 2018)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Good advice. Newbies often are unable to judge how long to cook the soap. I have done this many times. The next morning I either have a mass of "vaseline" that tests neutral with a drop of phenolphthalein, or I leave it for a week or two until it does test neutral before diluting.


Hi @Zany_in_CO I made some LS today but my phenolphthalein has not arrived yet so I zap tested it.  Yep, it zapped although it was clear when I checked the clarity.  So, my question is, if I leave the soap a week or so  is it possible it will be neutral by then (always assuming I have everything else right)?  I have put it aside at the moment while I wait for the phenolphthalien to arrive.


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## Misschief (Dec 18, 2018)

One thing I've learned about soap making... of any kind... when you mix oils and lye, the lye will do its thing over time. It doesn't need you, really.


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## cmzaha (Dec 18, 2018)

I do the same as DeeAnna, but start diluting with less than recommended dilution percentage. If all does not dilute in a few days I add more water until the skin and all is diluted. If I accidentally over dilute I use Modified HEC, which I find easier to use than just HEC. 

What I do not do is use phenolphthalien, which I have never owned, even when I started making soap. If my paste were zappy I would let it sit until it fixes itself, which is really no different from curing soap. As a side note, I do not remember ever having zappy LS paste


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## DeeAnna (Dec 18, 2018)

I don't use phenolphthalein in my soap making either. I've played around with using it as most soapers use it ... and I utterly don't see the point of that. It's most certainly not indicating any kind of accurate pH when dropped on concentrated soap paste.

I've used it the chem lab as a indicator for titrations. Used correctly in dilute solutions, phenolphthalein is very useful, but how it's used in the lab is not remotely the same as how it's used by most soapers. 

But there's no real harm done with this ritual as long as phenolphthalein is used on a sample and the sample is discarded after testing. Just don't see what good it does. (Phenolphthalein is toxic -- never add contaminated soap back to the main batch of soap.)


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## Zany_in_CO (Dec 18, 2018)

KimT2au said:


> Hi @Zany_in_CO ... if I leave the soap a week or so  is it possible it will be neutral by then (always assuming I have everything else right)?





Misschief said:


> One thing I've learned about soap making... of any kind... when you mix oils and lye, the lye will do its thing over time. It doesn't need you, really.


Misschief's reply hits the nail on the head! Good answer.


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