# Fats/butters supplementing have question



## Desirae (Aug 26, 2016)

If I'm posting in wrong area please forgive me, newhich here and still trying to find my way around.
So I'm looking over different recipes for different bath and body products and I'm seeing more often then I like Amina fat oils, (lard/tallow) I like the idea of using the vegetable based oils, plus I imagine that lard/tallow would smell horrible not to mention here in the states ( from what I see this is a UK based website?), you can't just go to the local store or walmart/target and pick up a container of lard/tallow, at least I've never seen ithe in stores before, (sorry getting off base here) I'm already ingredients using coconut,shea,cocoa,mango butters, so instead of using the lard/tallow what butter (cocoa,mango,shea etc) can I use in place of and will give me for the most part the same ending result as using lard?

I already make body butters,bath bombs, sugar scrubs and soap using m&p, I plan to stick my hand in trying out cp this week (looks less complicated then hp) but I found what looked like a super super easy recipe to make whipped soap, looks even easier then cp and m&p so I want to try it this weekend, I found 3 recipe one calls for lard, the other calls for tallow and a 3rd calls for Palm oil, palmk oil is already a liquid form so I don't see how this person can say you have to melt it down (palm oil comes in a solid? I haven't even been able to find that only the liquid version)   so anywho, I'd like to replace the tallow/lard with a vegetable based oil/butter, so what is in comparison to that?

Thanks for listening to my wondering mind I do that every now and again. But was best way to explain why I was asking. I've looked online but to no avail cannot find a website that tells me... use this in place of this, try using that instead of this, that will give same results instead instead of.... see my train of thought, anyone know of a website that give this kind of info?

Thanks for any and all help


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## shunt2011 (Aug 26, 2016)

Palm is a substitute for lard/tallow. Palm is solid I've never seen liquid form. Walmart carries GV shortening which is Palm.  They also carry Lard.  Lard makes a superior soap over Palm for me. I make both but prefer lard. No smell carry over unless you overheat it. 

This forum has people from all over the world. It's based In The US.  

If you read the last 10 or so pages you will glean a whole lot of information on Soapmaking. 

If you have questions we welcome them. Make sure you run all recipes through a soap calculator so that you are sure they are accurate. 

Wear appropriate safety gear (goggles and gloves) and don't mix lye in glass. 

Welcome to the forum, look forward to hearing about your soapy adventures.  

I've not made whipped soap but not sure it's easier than CP to b honest.


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## BrewerGeorge (Aug 26, 2016)

I'm sure someone will come in with some substitution recipes to approximate lard or tallow with vegetable oils and butters, so I won't try to do that.  What I do want to do is tell you to stop and wait for somebody to do that before you try a substitution on your own.  Vegetable butters by themselves are not even close to capable of direct swaps for anything but another butter.  That is, a 100% lard soap is a very nice thing, but a 100% cocoa butter soap would be very weird - if it's even possible.

I don't know if you have an ethical issue with animal fats, so I will also say that you CAN absolutely buy pure lard at Walmart and almost every good sized grocery.  Depending on your area, it may be relegated to the Ethnic/Mexican food aisle and be labeled as Manteca, but its very easy to find.  Tallow is a little bit harder, but Gordon Food Service (GFS) sells it here.  It doesn't appear that Virginia has GFS, but it's a somewhat common fat for food prep so similar restaurant supply stores have a good chance of stocking it.  Walmart also carries a shortening that is a mix of tallow and palm oil (along side their 100% veg shortening) that makes good soap and can be found in soapcalc.

If you DO have an ethical issue and want to stay 100% veg, it is definitely possible to make good soap.  It's just not possible to do it by swapping a butter for the lard or tallow willynilly.  I have one myself that I will post when I'm near my notebooks, but searching for 'Vegan soap recipe' should get you started.

BTW, just as an aside, palm oil should be solid at room temp.


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## IrishLass (Aug 26, 2016)

Welcome Desirae! :wave:

Like Shari said, we're actually based in the US, but we have members from all over the world. I myself live in the US and am able to find lard at my local Walmart as well as my local grocery stores, but I've learned its availability varies depending on your region. Tallow is a bit harder for me to find so I've mostly ordered it online from Columbus Foods out of Ohio. The only place I've been able to find it locally is at Smart&Final (a restaurant supply store). Walmart sells some, but it's in a tallow/palm blended shortening.

If you want to make a veggie-based soap without lard, but which might feel as if you actually used lard, I came up with a blend of fats (on paper) to hopefully mimic the feel of lard, solely based on their fatty acid profiles. When mixed together/combined, it's very close to the fatty acid profile of lard (at least on paper). I haven't tried it out yet in real life, mind you, so I can't vouch for how it will truly behave or feel in product, but for what it's worth, here are the proportions of it: 55% palm oil, 30% shea butter; 15% olive oil. Combined, it should (hopefully) mimic the qualities of lard.

Re: palm oil- I've only ever used the Spectrum-brand palm which comes in a solid form, but from what I understand, palm can be solid or semi-solid based on ambient temperature. The liquid form you've seen may quite possibly be a fractionated form of palm oil.

I've never tried my hand at whipped soap, but hopefully those who have done so will chime in soon.


HTH!
IrishLass


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## Desirae (Aug 26, 2016)

BrewerGeorge said:


> I'm sure someone will come in with some substitution recipes to approximate lard or tallow with vegetable oils and butters, so I won't try to do that.  What I do want to do is tell you to stop and wait for somebody to do that before you try a substitution on your own.  Vegetable butters by themselves are not even close to capable of direct swaps for anything but another butter.  That is, a 100% lard soap is a very nice thing, but a 100% cocoa butter soap would be very weird - if it's even possible.
> 
> I don't know if you have an ethical issue with animal fats, so I will also say that you CAN absolutely buy pure lard at Walmart and almost every good sized grocery.  Depending on your area, it may be relegated to the Ethnic/Mexican food aisle and be labeled as Manteca, but its very easy to find.  Tallow is a little bit harder, but Gordon Food Service (GFS) sells it here.  It doesn't appear that Virginia has GFS, but it's a somewhat common fat for food prep so similar restaurant supply stores have a good chance of stocking it.  Walmart also carries a shortening that is a mix of tallow and palm oil (along side their 100% veg shortening) that makes good soap and can be found in soapcalc.
> 
> ...



Thank  you  for  your  help  I appreciate  it. I have no ethical  issues, I was figuring  that  something called lard would have a bad smell, alot of cp recipes I've seen usually call for butters  I've only seen a hand full that call for lard or tallow, soap queen for example  most of the recipe s call for butters . As for the palm oil I just bought some online from that soap queen website and what I purchased came in a bottle so it was safe to assume  that it's  purely an oil. Where can I find it in a solid form? 
With the lard, if a recipe calls for butters should I swap it for lard instead or follow the recipe  and use the butters? Just curious  because  I've seen very few recipes that calls for lard,  and the one recipe  that I would like to try calls for,  palm oil, coconut oil, lard or tallow olive oil lye and water.


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## Desirae (Aug 26, 2016)

shunt2011;610757 Palm is a substitute for lard/tallow. Palm is solid I've never seen liquid form. Walmart carries GV shortening which is Palm.  They also carry Lard.  Lard makes a superior soap over Palm for me. I make both but prefer lard. No smell carry over unless you overheat it. I bought palm oil from that soapqueen site bramberry I think its called & it came in a bottle s I thought that palm oil is a liquid based, so maybe it is fractionated. as for Walmart, is the palm oil just called GV shortning? where can I find it at? maybe spices asile? and lard where abouts can I find that, I must be looking in wrong areas of the store, ill have to look again.

This forum has people from all over the world. It's based In The US.  

If you read the last 10 or so pages you will glean a whole lot of information on Soapmaking. I will look through those over the weekend

If you have questions we welcome them. Make sure you run all recipes through a soap calculator so that you are sure they are accurate. I have read this in recipes ive seen online, I assume theres a thread someone that explains step by step how to use the soap calc?

Wear appropriate safety gear (goggles and gloves) and don't mix lye in glass. I have a pair of safety glasses, are those ok to use or should I go buy goggles?

Welcome to the forum, look forward to hearing about your soapy adventures.  thank you, I'm looking forward to posting reciepes and seeing what you ladies think of it and if I need to fix it before making it. all help would be great

I've not made whipped soap but not sure it's easier than CP to b honest. thank you


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## shunt2011 (Aug 26, 2016)

Desirae said:


> shunt2011;610757 Palm is a substitute for lard/tallow. Palm is solid I've never seen liquid form. Walmart carries GV shortening which is Palm.  They also carry Lard.  Lard makes a superior soap over Palm for me. I make both but prefer lard. No smell carry over unless you overheat it. I bought palm oil from that soapqueen site bramberry I think its called & it came in a bottle s I thought that palm oil is a liquid based, so maybe it is fractionated. as for Walmart, is the palm oil just called GV shortning? where can I find it at? maybe spices asile? and lard where abouts can I find that, I must be looking in wrong areas of the store, ill have to look again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The GV shortening is in the baking oil at Walmart as is the lard generally. Read the shortening can and it will state hydrogenated Palm. The lard is Armour brand here it may be in the ethnic section as Manteca. Lard is pig fat.  

In my recipes I use both lard or Palm along with Shea and some others.  Another good addition is castor oil. It will stabilize the lather. You can find it in the pharmacy section. It's used as a laxative.


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## Desirae (Aug 26, 2016)

IrishLass---Welcome Desirae! :wave:

Like Shari said, we're actually based in the US, but we have members from all over the world. I myself live in the US and am able to find lard at my local Walmart as well as my local grocery stores, but I've learned its availability varies depending on your region. Tallow is a bit harder for me to find so I've mostly ordered it online from Columbus Foods out of Ohio. The only place I've been able to find it locally is at Smart&Final (a restaurant supply store). Walmart sells some, but it's in a tallow/palm blended shortening.

If you want to make a veggie-based soap without lard, but which might feel as if you actually used lard, I came up with a blend of fats (on paper) to hopefully mimic the feel of lard, solely based on their fatty acid profiles. When mixed together/combined, it's very close to the fatty acid profile of lard (at least on paper). I haven't tried it out yet in real life, mind you, so I can't vouch for how it will truly behave or feel in product, but for what it's worth, here are the proportions of it: 55% palm oil, 30% shea butter; 15% olive oil. Combined, it should (hopefully) mimic the qualities of lard.  I will give this a try but as long as lard/tallow doesn't stink I'm more then willing to give it a try



Re: palm oil- I've only ever used the Spectrum-brand palm which comes in a solid form, but from what I understand, palm can be solid or semi-solid based on ambient temperature. The liquid form you've seen may quite possibly be a fractionated form of palm oil. I'm thinking so bc the palm oil I bought from the soapqueen site the palm oil came in a bottle not a container etc 

I've never tried my hand at whipped soap, but hopefully those who have done so will chime in soon. I hope so bc I would love to give this a try, my kids would be thrilled to take baths with soap that floats on top of the water, theyd get a kick out of it


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## Desirae (Aug 26, 2016)

shuntThe GV shortening is in the baking oil at Walmart as is the lard generally. Read the shortening can and it will state hydrogenated Palm. The lard is Armour brand here it may be in the ethnic section as Manteca. Lard is pig fat.thank god for the Walmart app, ill be for sure doing a search for it at my local Walmart this way I cant miss it, for the GV shortning do you think I should look it u that way or just search palm oil 

In my recipes I use both lard or Palm along with Shea and some others.  Another good addition is castor oil. It will stabilize the lather. You can find it in the pharmacy section. It's used as a laxative. ill admit I do have 2 bottles of castor oil, I ordered it from 1 company only for it to be on back order and forgot I had ordered it, so bought it from another company, less then a week later the back ordered bottle showed up in my mail, lol so now I have 2 and should last a while since not much is used, right?

thank you bunches for all the info, its most helpful


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## Obsidian (Aug 26, 2016)

I'm a lard fan, use at least 50% in my regular recipes. Its doesn't smell unless you get it too hot while melting, warm it just enough that it turns into a clear liquid.
I much prefer the GV shortening over pure palm, its cheaper, easier to find and makes better soap. GV is a blend of palm and tallow.

Castor is generally used at 5%, thats all you really need to boost the lather. You can use 10% but I don't see a improvement with a higher amount. 

If you want to use a butter, try 10%-20% in place of some of the lard/palm, too much butter can reduce the lather. I tried a high % of coco butter once, just as a experiment. Its really bad soap, hardly any lather and it leaves the skin feeling tight and waxy.


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## snappyllama (Aug 26, 2016)

Howdy and welcome!

I'm a lardy-side soaper - it's just really nice in soap. One thing I figured out after trying a lot of recipes... just because an ingredient is humble doesn't mean it's not awesome. 

A great beginner recipe:

20% CO
50% Lard
5% Castor
25% Olive Oil

It's nice in that it gives you lots of time to play, is easily sourced at grocery stores (look for lard in cubes or buckets), and most importantly - feels fantastic on the skin.

I've made whipped soap, but I feel it's more challenging than regular CP. You have to keep everything really cool and deal with raw soap in a mixer. Safety is my biggest concern when working with lye, so I would personally hold off on it until after you get a few batches under your belt.  We had a whipped soap challenge a few months ago... http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?p=582374


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## CaraBou (Aug 27, 2016)

I agree with snappy, and recommend a normal cp soap first as a baseline for experience.  I participated in the whipped soap challenge and had a blast making it, but it does have more potential to splatter out lye and also it is harder to clean up.  The whipped soap is nice and bubbly to use but in my experience, it dissolves much quicker.  By all means, try it sometime, it definitely has its merits. 

I'm another person who prefers lard over palm, usually between 40-60% of most of my recipes. Sounds like you're not afraid to try it so take a look at walmart.  And just for the record, palm has always been a solid for me, but I've been soaping in northern climates. It wasn't until I left Alaska that I didn't have to use an ice cream scoop to be able to dig out coconut oil   As for butters, I like using them but usually don't exceed 15% in any combination. 

Good luck with your cp (whatever you decide) -- let us know how it goes, and post some pics for us!


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## topofmurrayhill (Aug 27, 2016)

On the matter or solid or liquid, the "average" palm oil I buy is solid in the winter and semi-liquid in the summer. That's unless I get the 50 lb cubes, which must be something other that just well-stirred palm oil because it stays solid in the summer.

There are various ways that palm oil can be fractionated. In parts of the world it's the most popular liquid cooking oil, which is probably palm olein 56 or similar. You can use this, or the semi-solid, or the solid palm oil and get similar results.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Aug 27, 2016)

If I remember, some places sold or sell solid oils in bottles, which you had to melt to pour it out! Not sure if that is the case here


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## Susie (Aug 27, 2016)

The Brambleberry palm oil is solid.  https://www.brambleberry.com/Palm-Oil-P3210.aspx?Options=4965,0,0,0,0,0,0,0

"Palm Oil - Palm oil is produced from the fruit of the oil palm, or Elaeis Guinnesis tree, which originated in West Guinea. Currently, Malaysia is the largest exporter of Palm Oil in the world. Our Palm oil is physically refined without the use of chemical solvents, thereby reducing the risk of residue contamination. Palm oil is used in cold process soap to add to the hardness of the bar and is typically replaced for tallow in all vegetable oil recipes.

*Palm Oil is comprised of liquid and solid oils. Because of this, it is important to fully melt and stir your palm until it is clear before using it so that it is the right mix of oils every time.*

In keeping with our social and ethical responsibility goals, our Palm oil supplier is a member of the Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil (RSPO), an organization that supports sustainable palm oil production. For more information see their website here.

Note: Yes! These bags are boilable! Please make sure that you use our Double Boiler Maker so the plastic doesn't melt on direct contact with the metal of the hot pan. Here is a post about how to melt the oil in a double boiler!

NOTE: the 5 gallon pail holds 35 lbs weight of oil
Ingredients:
Botanical Name:  Elaeis Guineensis (Palm) Oil
Common Name:   Palm Oil"

Please note the bolded portion of the above.  You must melt and stir palm oil to be sure it is mixed properly before using.  If you are smart, you will portion out smaller amounts when you melt and stir it the first time.  It is much easier to deal with smaller amounts.


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## cmzaha (Aug 27, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Thank  you  for  your  help  I appreciate  it. I have no ethical  issues, I was figuring  that  something called lard would have a bad smell, alot of cp recipes I've seen usually call for butters  I've only seen a hand full that call for lard or tallow, soap queen for example  most of the recipe s call for butters . As for the palm oil I just bought some online from that soap queen website and what I purchased came in a bottle so it was safe to assume  that it's  purely an oil. Where can I find it in a solid form?
> With the lard, if a recipe calls for butters should I swap it for lard instead or follow the recipe  and use the butters? Just curious  because  I've seen very few recipes that calls for lard,  and the one recipe  that I would like to try calls for,  palm oil, coconut oil, lard or tallow olive oil lye and water.



Soap Queen wants to sell their butters. they do not sell Lard. My palm is solid in the winter and liquid in the summer. One word of advice if you try lard, do not use Farmer John Lard it tends to acquire DOS. I like a mix of lard and tallow, or lard and palm


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## topofmurrayhill (Aug 27, 2016)

Susie said:


> *Palm Oil is comprised of liquid and solid oils. Because of this, it is important to fully melt and stir your palm until it is clear before using it so that it is the right mix of oils every time.*



This is understandably what people feel, and it's frequently repeated, but it's not based on fact.

They take whole palm oil and fractionate it to derive that liquid olein that's used as cooking oil. In that initial fractionation, they separate the liquid from the solid more efficiently than you can at home even if you were trying to do that. Nonetheless, that liquid olein is still so similar in fatty acid composition that you could use it in a typical recipe and not notice the difference. You can even see that in SoapCalc of you compare the palm oil and palm olein listings.

So realistically, you don't have to go crazy with your palm oil, as it would be very difficult to affect your end result by not stirring enough. Just some casual mixing is okay. You definitely don't want to be melting more than you need just to mix it, as that's pretty bad for the stability of the oil.

Melting, making small portions and remelting those is pretty okay, but not necessary.


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## Desirae (Aug 27, 2016)

Susie said:


> The Brambleberry palm oil is solid.  https://www.brambleberry.com/Palm-Oil-P3210.aspx?Options=4965,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
> 
> "Palm Oil - Palm oil is produced from the fruit of the oil palm, or Elaeis Guinnesis tree, which originated in West Guinea. Currently, Malaysia is the largest exporter of Palm Oil in the world. Our Palm oil is physically refined without the use of chemical solvents, thereby reducing the risk of residue contamination. Palm oil is used in cold process soap to add to the hardness of the bar and is typically replaced for tallow in all vegetable oil recipes.
> 
> ...



We'll I feel like an idiot lol I could have sworn that it came in a bottle, I must be thinking that bc the bowl showed a liquid it was a liquid, or I was thinking of a different site/compay. Thank you


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## Desirae (Aug 27, 2016)

CaraBou said:


> I agree with snappy, and recommend a normal cp soap first as a baseline for experience.  I participated in the whipped soap challenge and had a blast making it, but it does have more potential to splatter out lye and also it is harder to clean up.  The whipped soap is nice and bubbly to use but in my experience, it dissolves much quicker.  By all means, try it sometime, it definitely has its merits.
> 
> I'm another person who prefers lard over palm, usually between 40-60% of most of my recipes. Sounds like you're not afraid to try it so take a look at walmart.  And just for the record, palm has always been a solid for me, but I've been soaping in northern climates. It wasn't until I left Alaska that I didn't have to use an ice cream scoop to be able to dig out coconut oil   As for butters, I like using them but usually don't exceed 15% in any combination.
> 
> Good luck with your cp (whatever you decide) -- let us know how it goes, and post some pics for us!



Thank you for the info about the whipped soap, I watched it done on you tube and it looked easy, but then bc it's you tube some thing must not have been filmed and skipped over to make it look easy. I will post pics. My main thing is finding good recipes bc 95% of the cp recipes I'm finding are all butters, the whipped soap was only the 2nd or 3rd time I've seen soap use lard/tallow, but nearly all recipes I see on bramberry and other sites use the palm oil. Any suggestions or know where I can find good recipes ?


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## Desirae (Aug 27, 2016)

cmzaha said:


> Soap Queen wants to sell their butters. they do not sell Lard. My palm is solid in the winter and liquid in the summer. One word of advice if you try lard, do not use Farmer John Lard it tends to acquire DOS. I like a mix of lard and tallow, or lard and palm



Thanks for the tip, I'll be sure to stay away from that brand, any suggestions on what brand I should try?


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## Susie (Aug 27, 2016)

Armour is what I use.  It is available at Walmart for about $8 for 4 lbs.  I am only a hobby soaper, so I tend to try to avoid shipping costs whenever possible.


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## Desirae (Aug 27, 2016)

Susie said:


> Armour is what I use.  It is available at Walmart for about $8 for 4 lbs.  I am only a hobby soaper, so I tend to try to avoid shipping costs whenever possible.



Thank you I'll go look to see if my walmart has that after I get off work. I appreciate it


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Aug 27, 2016)

La-ard, Armour la-ard.
what kind of soapers use Armour la-ard?


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## Desirae (Aug 27, 2016)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> La-ard, Armour la-ard.
> what kind of soapers use Armour la-ard?



Sorry I do not understand what you mean, do you use a different brand that you think is better or cheaper?


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## Susie (Aug 27, 2016)

That's a *heavily modified* portion of an old radio jingle.  Here's one:

Hot dogs, Armour hot dogs
What kind of kids eat Armour Hot Dogs?
Fat kids, skinny kids, kids who climb on rocks
Tough kids, sissy kids, even kids with chicken pox
love hot dogs, Armour Dot Dogs
The dogs kids love to bite!

Here's another:

Hot dogs, Armour Hot Dogs
What kinds of kids eat Armour Hot Dogs?
Big kids, little kids, kids who climb on rocks
fat kids, skinny kids, even kids with chicken pox
love hot dogs, Armour Dot Dogs
The dogs kids love to bite!


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## Desirae (Aug 27, 2016)

So here's another question. If I have a recipe that calls for all oils and butters, how would you incorporate lard into it? Do you reduce the oils and butter then take the % of what you took out and use that same % in lard? 

Either im not looking in the right area or I'm not going far enough into the threads but I can't find a thread that says how to use the lye calc...... Step BY Step. As in telling me what goes in each box and how to figure out what to put in each box. I looked over a calc the other day and it wanted you to put how much you wanted into each both. I thought the calc was used for it that u put say I was 3 lbs soap and I want to use ingredients this, this, this and this. Then it should tell you, ok you have to use 10%/grams with this, 15%/grams that and 50%/grams of this.   Is there no calc that does this? Doesn't anyone know where I can find the thread if there is one that explains step by step how to use the calc and explain what each part of the calc is


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Aug 27, 2016)

No, no calc will tell you that.  One person might want to use 50% lard and someone else might want to use 55% lard.  You need to learn what oils bring what to a soap for that.  The calcs are used for working out how much sodium or potassium hydroxide you need, as well as the water amount.  Another good thing is that you can use a % based recipe (50% lard, 15% coconut etc) and change the desired batch size and it works out how much weight of each ingredient you need.

For learning how to formulate recipes, I can fully suggest reading back at least 10 pages in the following parts of the forum - 

Beginners
Lye-based
Soap making recipes & tutorials
Recipe Feedback

There is a lot in there, but seeing the questions and answers will fill in a lot of the useful, basic information straight away.  Like the fact that palm kernel oil, coconut and babassau are all drying in soaps and should generally be use sparingly.  Palm oil and palm kernel oil are totally different oils and not to be used interchangably.  That sort of thing. From there, we can help with basic recipes (if you haven't found the standard basic recipe in those threads) and then with any ideas you have for tweaking it when the time comes.


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## Desirae (Aug 27, 2016)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> No, no calc will tell you that.  One person might want to use 50% lard and someone else might want to use 55% lard.  You need to learn what oils bring what to a soap for that.  The calcs are used for working out how much sodium or potassium hydroxide you need, as well as the water amount.  Another good thing is that you can use a % based recipe (50% lard, 15% coconut etc) and change the desired batch size and it works out how much weight of each ingredient you need.
> 
> For learning how to formulate recipes, I can fully suggest reading back at least 10 pages in the following parts of the forum -
> 
> ...



A few people have said that about the 10 page rule, so does that mean in each our those sections I need to read every thread in pages 1-10 for each of those sections you mentioned? I know sounds like a stupid questions but a few ppl have said that in my other thread but Noone has clarified exactly what am asking, bc I know some 30 thread fit on each page, it would take me months that read all 10 pages X 30 threads, holy cow. , I hope it explains better what you had said bc if I have to know what % of what, and all the lye calc does is give you the amount of lye you need, then using a hand held calculator will give the same info right?


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## BrewerGeorge (Aug 27, 2016)

Has anyone done a video tutorial on using soapcalc? I know that was a very daunting screen when I was starting out. If not, I could probably do a short one.


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## Desirae (Aug 27, 2016)

Susie said:


> Armour is what I use.  It is available at Walmart for about $8 for 4 lbs.  I am only a hobby soaper, so I tend to try to avoid shipping costs whenever possible.




 This brand was not avail at my walmart, there's was only 1 option and it was Lundy and the gv shortning they only had the huge container so I got a small container of cisco. That's the same right?


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## Desirae (Aug 27, 2016)

BrewerGeorge said:


> Has anyone done a video tutorial on using soapcalc? I know that was a very daunting screen when I was starting out. If not, I could probably do a short one.



That would be wonderful if you can post one so I can actually watch how it's done and explain what your doing. I learn better by watching people do things as apposed to reading


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## Susie (Aug 27, 2016)

No, Crisco is not the same as GV shortening.  It has its own line on the soaping calculators.  You should have picked up the lard, though.

Here is the SoapCalc tutorial:  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49627

I use Soapee.com lye calculator, as I find it less cluttered, and it will save my recipes.  SAVE YOUR RECIPES!!!!  Print them out, or save them on the computer, I don't care.  But SAVE THEM.

I am going to give you my standard basic recipe.  This is not some dumbed down recipe because you are a newbie, this is what I use to make 80% of the batches I make because I have tried all the expensive stuff, and this is what works best for me.  Your mission (should you choose to accept it) is to plug it into a lye calculator to find out how much NaOH and water to use.  I typically use 32 oz of oil in a batch, as this is what fits my mold.

Lard 65% (you can try substituting palm or tallow, or use a combination of two or three)
Coconut Oil 15%
Olive Oil 15% 
Castor Oil 5%

Superfat 5%


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Aug 27, 2016)

Desirae said:


> A few people have said that about the 10 page rule, so does that mean in each our those sections I need to read every thread in pages 1-10 for each of those sections you mentioned? I know sounds like a stupid questions but a few ppl have said that in my other thread but Noone has clarified exactly what am asking, bc I know some 30 thread fit on each page, it would take me months that read all 10 pages X 30 threads, holy cow. , I hope it explains better what you had said bc if I have to know what % of what, and all the lye calc does is give you the amount of lye you need, then using a hand held calculator will give the same info right?



That is what we mean.

EVERY thread might be a bit much, but certainly anything that looks at recipes, helping to solve a recipe issue and so on.  Anything about colours or scents you could go back to at a later time, though.  

It might seem daunting, but it will bring you up to speed on a lot of things.  Even if you were to ask the question now, some of the information might not be repeated, some of the additional questions asked by people might not be asked this time and so certain nuggets of pure gold would be missed out on.

That is, however, if you want to know why certain things happen.  You can search around, find a recipe and make it as it stands and that is all well and good.  But knowing the why behind it all allows you to make your own recipes that really suit your needs - the difference between someone who makes soap and a soaper.


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## Desirae (Aug 27, 2016)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> That is what we mean.
> 
> EVERY thread might be a bit much, but certainly anything that looks at recipes, helping to solve a recipe issue and so on.  Anything about colours or scents you could go back to at a later time, though.
> 
> ...


That is understandable and I thank you for clarifying for me I will do that, thanks


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## Desirae (Aug 27, 2016)

Susie said:


> No, Crisco is not the same as GV shortening.  It has its own line on the soaping calculators.  You should have picked up the lard, though.
> 
> Here is the SoapCalc tutorial:  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49627
> 
> ...



when I went to Walmart I looked at the back of the Crisco and it says hydrogenated palm oil so I figured it was the same, sorry I promise I'm not trying to be stupid or arrogant I just want to make sure that I'm understanding EVERYTHING 110%. thanks for the tip I will definetly save all my info, id hate to get te perfect recipe and not be able to get it right again bc I forgot what I did the time before.   does the kind of olive oil make a difference? so far with all my other body products body butter sugar scrubs bb I haven't used olive oil at all as I assumed that's for cooking only. and then I went to soapcalc.net the box for water its auto set to 38% (haveno clue what this eans) but it auto set for 1lb and everything under soap qualities and fatty acids was also auto set, when I put in on the right side of the screen what you listed, olive co lard and castor it gave me NaOH 0.135 & KOH SAP0.19, what is KOH?  is this NaOH correct? if not how far off am I or I should say the calc?


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## Desirae (Aug 27, 2016)

Susie said:


> No, Crisco is not the same as GV shortening.  It has its own line on the soaping calculators.  You should have picked up the lard, though.
> 
> Here is the SoapCalc tutorial:  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49627
> 
> ...



o so I just went to soapee and left everything as it was with all the numbers etc and only put in the co,olive,castor,lard and its telling me water weight 190g, NaOH 69.3g lye concentration 26.7. is this correct? I really need to get my pc to act right so I can watch the toturials, as it is my pc and tablet and phone all hate this website for some reason as it takes FOREVER to load anything then stops responding all together so I have to close and restart, talk about a royal pain in the butt


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## shunt2011 (Aug 27, 2016)

Olive in soap is nice. Some folks make 100% Olive soap. However it takes a very long time to cure. I don't like it personally but many do. It's a gentle soap.  

NAOH is sodium hydroxide and makes solid soap. KOH is potassium hydroxide and is used for shaving soap and liquid soap.

As for reading the forum topics, I read every single one of them from the beginning. Call me crazy but I learned so much. It answered so many questions that I didn't even know I needed answers to 

We are here to help but you can learn so much just by reading and watching you tube videos. I recommend soaping101 and Brambleberry. For starters. I don't care for their recipes but it's good for learning he process.


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## Susie (Aug 27, 2016)

Crisco is hydrogenated palm oil.  GV shortening is tallow + hydrogenated palm oil.  If you want strictly hydrogenated palm oil, then Crisco is what you want.  I assumed (I know that is always a bad idea) that you wanted GV shortening due to the discussion that preceded your shopping trip.

No one is assuming that you are stupid or arrogant.  We all had this same learning curve going into soaping.  You just need to be patient with us as we try to address one issue at the time.  Also, you need to take the time to do that reading.  You have so many questions that will be answered by reading.  It isn't that we don't want to help, we do, or we would not be here.  It is that you will even have questions answered that you did not even know enough to ask yet if you go do that reading.  Read everything with "help" in the title, at least. 

The type of olive oil does indeed make a difference!  The darker green, more "virgin" olive oils will cause more problems for you right now that you do not want to be dealing with-like color and how your batter behaves.  Save yourself some time and money and buy that cheap yellow GV brand OO.  It is what I soap with as I get good consistent results with it.

KOH is potassium hydroxide, that is what you make liquid soap with.  Ignore it.  Just use the NaOH.

Did you read that tutorial for Soapcalc?  If not, go read it before proceeding.


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## Susie (Aug 27, 2016)

Desirae said:


> o so I just went to soapee and left everything as it was with all the numbers etc and only put in the co,olive,castor,lard and its telling me water weight 190g, NaOH 69.3g lye concentration 26.7. is this correct? I really need to get my pc to act right so I can watch the toturials, as it is my pc and tablet and phone all hate this website for some reason as it takes FOREVER to load anything then stops responding all together so I have to close and restart, talk about a royal pain in the butt



Sorry to hear about your computer problems!  Yay on the Soapee.com!  Good job!  You just ran your first recipe through a lye calculator!  This is one of the reasons I love Soapee!  SoapCalc has just too much going on on one page for a newbie to figure out.  And SoapCalc does not save recipes.


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## Desirae (Aug 27, 2016)

Susie said:


> Sorry to hear about your computer problems!  Yay on the Soapee.com!  Good job!  You just ran your first recipe through a lye calculator!  This is one of the reasons I love Soapee!  SoapCalc has just too much going on on one page for a newbie to figure out.  And SoapCalc does not save recipes.



that's good to know that site doesn't save so I will bookmark the soapee one as it did look much easier to use. the soapcalc, omg when I got to the calc I about had a panic attack(lol) when I saw all that extra stuff.


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## Desirae (Aug 27, 2016)

Susie said:


> Crisco is hydrogenated palm oil.  GV shortening is tallow + hydrogenated palm oil.  If you want strictly hydrogenated palm oil, then Crisco is what you want.  I assumed (I know that is always a bad idea) that you wanted GV shortening due to the discussion that preceded your shopping trip.
> 
> No one is assuming that you are stupid or arrogant.  We all had this same learning curve going into soaping.  You just need to be patient with us as we try to address one issue at the time.  Also, you need to take the time to do that reading.  You have so many questions that will be answered by reading.  It isn't that we don't want to help, we do, or we would not be here.  It is that you will even have questions answered that you did not even know enough to ask yet if you go do that reading.  Read everything with "help" in the title, at least.
> 
> ...



I will use whats left of my weekend to read over those threads and also make a quick trip bac to Walmart to get the GV brand, when I saw the size of the container I figured that since I'm only starting out on making soap from scratch I should get a small container and then if I see I can do it without screwing anything up then ill mov to the big container but my Walmart only carries 1 size and it was like 64 oz, the Crisco I got was only 8 and since I don't no space left in my cart drawer thing I'm using to store everything I thought I was better off, but then again if I do well at my 1st try then ill have to buy more and so itll just save me the additional trip so ill swing back there tomorrow.

also I asked this before but no one answered my question, when working with the lye I read it says to wear eye protection, another one I read said googles. I have a pair of safety glasses (I use those when I go to the gun range) can I wear those or do they need to be googles? this way if I need those I can get them at the same time I'm getting the GV shortening.. thank you soooooo very much for all your advice, and now ill stop with all my questions and get to reading those threads.


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## Arimara (Aug 27, 2016)

This page can help you use SoapCalc, if you still are up for the challenge. I still like Soap Calc since I hate scrolling down a page to see my numbers (I'm a little lazy). Still, Soapee is more user-friendly and you can save your soaps there.

I don't mind lard or tallow in soaps but my preference is for tallow. My skin can get weird with lard and the cleansing nature of tallow allows for me to use less coconut oil or palm kernel oil. Both fats, in my opinion, leaves palm eating their dust as neither of them instill a waxy-feeling nature that palm oil can at usage rates over about 30% or so. I will admit, with both fats, I have had a smell develop after saponification but it always cured out after 3 months (my nose is a little adverse to pork since I can't eat too much of it). It may seem like a downfall but I can't complain since those soaps rewarded me for waiting.

In truth, Susie, Snappy, others gave great advice to you for you learning experience. The only thing I can do is challenge you to take a recipe and soap 50% palm in one batch and 50% lard in another. That should help you develop a feel for what you like in your soap. I'd also worry about butters another time. Many of use could really go in on them an I'm no exception.


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## Desirae (Aug 27, 2016)

Arimara said:


> This page can help you use SoapCalc, if you still are up for the challenge. I still like Soap Calc since I hate scrolling down a page to see my numbers (I'm a little lazy). Still, Soapee is more user-friendly and you can save your soaps there.
> 
> I don't mind lard or tallow in soaps but my preference is for tallow. My skin can get weird with lard and the cleansing nature of tallow allows for me to use less coconut oil or palm kernel oil. Both fats, in my opinion, leaves palm eating their dust as neither of them instill a waxy-feeling nature that palm oil can at usage rates over about 30% or so. I will admit, with both fats, I have had a smell develop after saponification but it always cured out after 3 months (my nose is a little adverse to pork since I can't eat too much of it). It may seem like a downfall but I can't complain since those soaps rewarded me for waiting.
> 
> In truth, Susie, Snappy, others gave great advice to you for you learning experience. The only thing I can do is challenge you to take a recipe and soap 50% palm in one batch and 50% lard in another. That should help you develop a feel for what you like in your soap. I'd also worry about butters another time. Many of use could really go in on them an I'm no exception.



I was actually thinking of making soap out of both, 1 batch using palm only and another of lard only, then maybe doing a batch with 50/50 of both. This way I can get a feel for what each feels like on the skin. I read that palm can be waxy and I certainly don't want anything on my skin that feels like that so I'd probably stick with the 15-20%, I've read somewhere with coconut in order for it to cure in 4week to keep it under 20%, different sites say different things. I plan to get started tomorrow on trying this all out, I do need still to get a plastic pitcher with the ppl 5, the one I have I believe is a pp1 or pp2. 

Thanks for your tips, it's most helpful


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## Arimara (Aug 27, 2016)

That's a good idea. You'll definitely get a feel for what you like that way. As for Pitchers, try the dollar tree or whatever's near by. As long as the plastic number is 2, 5, or 7, YOu should be fine. A 2qt pitcher would be ideal if you're starting out with 16oz or 500g batches. Mixing lye in that would be a lot safer, especially later down the road if you feel adventurous and want to try your hand at a beer soap.


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## newbie (Aug 27, 2016)

Now I have this running through my head, so I'm planting it in other people's to share the wealth. 


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dL7X8tuxxM[/ame]


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## CaraBou (Aug 27, 2016)

Your shooting glasses should be fine - the point is to protect your eyes from any batter splatter.  The larger the area of your face that the glasses cover, the better.  Just like shooting, ALWAYS wear your glasses when soaping.

Also, I think you did fine buying the small container of crisco and seeing how you like making soap.  You can always buy more / something different later. It's just that we're all betting that you'll become a soaping addict like we are.  64 oz aint nuthin to the rest of us, honey. :twisted:


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## Susie (Aug 28, 2016)

CaraBou said:


> Your shooting glasses should be fine - the point is to protect your eyes from any batter splatter.  The larger the area of your face that the glasses cover, the better.  Just like shooting, ALWAYS wear your glasses when soaping.
> 
> Also, I think you did fine buying the small container of crisco and seeing how you like making soap.  You can always buy more / something different later. It's just that we're all betting that you'll become a soaping addict like we are.  64 oz aint nuthin to the rest of us, honey. :twisted:



^^^^This!

I am sorry to tell you that you have all the hallmarks of a serious soaping addict.  Welcome to the addiction!  It's the only one you won't want to get over.


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## navigator9 (Aug 28, 2016)

As far as formulating recipes goes, to start off, I would use one offered on this forum, or found in a book, with ingredients that appeal to you, but _*always *_be sure to run _*any*_ recipe through a soap calculator first, no matter where you find it, because there is always the possibility of an error. Although many may disagree, I think when you are first starting out, it's a good idea to go as simple as possible, with no color or fragrance, so that you can get the hang of the actual soapmaking process, because that can be confusing enough at first. There's plenty of time to get fancy later. Once you have a baseline soap recipe, you can adjust from there. Too drying? Maybe you want to try less coconut and more olive. Not enough lather? Maybe some castor or sugar. Too soft? It may need more palm. Having that first soap to judge by, will help you know where you want to go from there. I know it all seems very intimidating at first, but if we all learned how to do it...so will you! :-D


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## BrewerGeorge (Aug 28, 2016)

Shooting glasses are pretty good, especially if the wrap around the sides.  That's what I use, too. You shkuld wear a hat with a brim, too. Things splatter up then down.


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## Desirae (Aug 28, 2016)

Susie said:


> No, Crisco is not the same as GV shortening.  It has its own line on the soaping calculators.  You should have picked up the lard, though.
> 
> Here is the SoapCalc tutorial:  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49627
> 
> ...



I big problem that I'm not seeing on this soapee calculator, since I put everything in as %, now how am I suppose to know how to trun that % into grams? I was about to try your recipe but cant now bc I have no idea how to change 65% lard into how much I'm actually suppose to weigh out. can you tell me how to do that?

nevermind, apparently I need to get my eyes checked, I found it, I feel like a dodo


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## Desirae (Aug 28, 2016)

So a few things I'm figuring out, lye solution takes forever for the temperature to come down it started out at 165, it's now down to 123 degrees it's taken 20 min so far for it to do that, I've read in many many places to not add the lye solution to the oils til the lye in below 100 degrees but two lower then 90, secondly, lard stinks to high hell, omg this stuff is making my whole house STINK, think next time I'll do the straight cisco instead bc that I know for a fact has such a low smell you can hardly smell it, can I use the shortening 100% in place of the lard, bc as bad as this stuff stinKS and making my 2 story house stink of it, either it's brand or lard stinks this bad all the time no matter what brand it is, my hubby will kill me if it's constantly stinking and he'll make me use the all vegetable based only.  Any takers? Is it this brand only or do all lard brands stink to high hell? This brand is Lundy, it's the ONLY brand my walmart carries, my local food stores, food lion and Kroger don't sell Lard so if it's only this brand then I can't be using it since I won't be able to find any other brand in my area.


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## Desirae (Aug 28, 2016)

Susie said:


> No, Crisco is not the same as GV shortening.  It has its own line on the soaping calculators.  You should have picked up the lard, though.
> 
> Here is the SoapCalc tutorial:  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49627
> 
> ...



I wish I had your phone number or a way to get in touch with you. I followed your recipe exactly, and I let the lye cool to 99.5 degrees my oils we at 92 degrees, I've been sticky blending for the last 20 min with short Burts, just like I read in multiple areas and I havent gotten even the least slightest trace, what am I doing wrong


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## CaraBou (Aug 28, 2016)

How are things now Desirae?  I imagine by now everything is quiet and the soap is doing its thing in the mold.  I would also expect the loaf smells very good - what did you add for fragrance?


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## Susie (Aug 28, 2016)

Hopefully you got trace.  I soap much hotter than 110 F!  I melt and mix the oils, then add the NaOH to the water, then I pour that HOT mixture into my oils so we can get trace and get done.  If I am lazy, I will even just use the hot lye/water mixture to melt my oils.  

I have never used Lundy's, but hopefully you added some sort of CP safe fragrance to it.  My lard does not cause my house to stink any worse than say frying a pork chop does.


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## Desirae (Aug 28, 2016)

CaraBou said:


> How are things now Desirae?  I imagine by now everything is quiet and the soap is doing its thing in the mold.  I would also expect the loaf smells very good - what did you add for fragrance?



Well,  after what took about 45min, I finally got my mix to a very light trace so went ahead and added coconut fragrance  to half of the batch and nutmeg to the other half,  as well as some vanilla extract to the nutmeg and some brown mica, it's been sitting in the mold, which actually  is a 6 bar mold not a loaf, the loaf I have is made for 3 lbs and I calculated the 774 grams recipe Susie gave me to be only 1 lb so it wouldn't  fit in my loaf any ways.  Been sitting for about 2.5 hrs  now and all I smell is the stinch  stink of the lard,  so hopefully  tomorrow  when I take the bars out  of the mold add is still way to soft to take our yet,  I'm hoping I'll actually  be able to smell the fragrance , if I still smell lard stinch  then it's going in the trash and starting over and this time with the gv  shortening. So cross your fingers for me. 
Thx for asking


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## Desirae (Aug 28, 2016)

Susie said:


> Hopefully you got trace.  I soap much hotter than 110 F!  I melt and mix the oils, then add the NaOH to the water, then I pour that HOT mixture into my oils so we can get trace and get done.  If I am lazy, I will even just use the hot lye/water mixture to melt my oils.
> 
> I have never used Lundy's, but hopefully you added some sort of CP safe fragrance to it.  My lard does not cause my house to stink any worse than say frying a pork chop does.



I did finally gother trace but took almost an hr.  So what temperature  of the lye do you suggest I leave it at when I pour it into the oils ? So the hotter the lye solution  is the faster I'll get to trace? I wonder why all the you tube videos ivery watched example  the squishy monster is 1, says to wait till the lye is btwn 90-100 degrees before adding it to the oils. 

I can honestly  say I've never thought about using lard to cook pork chops with,  to be honest until now,  I didn't know what it was used for.  Can I sub the 65% lard for 65% gv shortening the next time? Of course I'll run it through soapee  calc.


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## Arimara (Aug 28, 2016)

Desirae said:


> I did finally gother trace but took almost an hr.  So what temperature  of the lye do you suggest I leave it at when I pour it into the oils ? So the hotter the lye solution  is the faster I'll get to trace? I wonder why all the you tube videos ivery watched example  the squishy monster is 1, says to wait till the lye is btwn 90-100 degrees before adding it to the oils.
> 
> I can honestly  say I've never thought about using lard to cook pork chops with,  to be honest until now,  I didn't know what it was used for.  Can I sub the 65% lard for 65% gv shortening the next time? Of course I'll run it through soapee  calc.



Lard is used in baking and cooking. Think about those delicious, flaky biscuits and pie crusts that everyone raved about or if someone wanted to be 'authentic' and make a spaghetti carbonara dish with pancetta and did not want olive oil in that dish. People commonly sub shortening and/or butter or for lard these days but in truth, some of the best baked goods I've had were made with some lard (and my belly paid for it).


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Aug 29, 2016)

Which brand lard did you use? How hot did you heat it up to? Lard generally doesn't stink if you avoid certain brands and don't over heat it


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## Susie (Aug 29, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Well,  after what took about 45min, I finally got my mix to a very light trace so went ahead and added coconut fragrance  to half of the batch and nutmeg to the other half,  as well as some vanilla extract to the nutmeg and some brown mica, it's been sitting in the mold, which actually  is a 6 bar mold not a loaf, the loaf I have is made for 3 lbs and I calculated the 774 grams recipe Susie gave me to be only 1 lb so it wouldn't  fit in my loaf any ways.  Been sitting for about 2.5 hrs  now and all I smell is the stinch  stink of the lard,  so hopefully  tomorrow  when I take the bars out  of the mold add is still way to soft to take our yet,  I'm hoping I'll actually  be able to smell the fragrance , if I still smell lard stinch  then it's going in the trash and starting over and this time with the gv  shortening. So cross your fingers for me.
> Thx for asking



1.  Never, ever add vanilla extract to soap batter or liquid or anything soap related.  Not a good idea.  Causes weird stuff to happen.  When you say you used fragrances, where did you buy them, and are you sure they are safe for CP soap?

2.  I gave you a percentage recipe.  You set it up for the weights.

3.  You need to let that sit at least 24 hours since it is not a loaf.  If it is still soft in 24 hours, freeze them for a couple of hours before trying to unmold them.  Did you not read anything about how long before unmolding?? 

4.  You don't fry pork chops in lard.  The fat that comes off of pork chops IS lard, as lard is pork/pig fat.

5.  There is a vast difference between what some of the people on YouTube say and reality.  You need experienced folks to help you figure out what is truth and what is not.  Or you can do it the hard way and figure it out yourself.


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## lenarenee (Aug 29, 2016)

I've easily used 100+ lbs of lard since I started soaping less than 3 years ago.  I've used 4 different brands of lard. No one brand smelled any better or worse than the others. Sometimes there's no smell, usually there's slight odor, one time I bought some with an extremely strong odor and I threw it out.

You may have one of those.  Or you may be very sensitive to the smell.
It does need to be melted gently, and patiently with as low a heat as possible to avoid aggravating the strength of the smell. I often preheat the burner, add the lard to the pot, cover pot, wait 2 - 3 minutes, then turn the heat off and walk away. Sometimes I need to turn the heat back on to finish some melting, but I don't leave the heat on.


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## Desirae (Aug 29, 2016)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Which brand lard did you use? How hot did you heat it up to? Lard generally doesn't stink if you avoid certain brands and don't over heat it



Lard brand is Lundy, it's the only brand my walmart carries, my local grocery stores don't carry lard, I can smell it stinking the minute it started melting, and the more it melted the more it stunk, ifor all brands smell this bad then I won't be using lard bc my hubby didn't appreciate the God awful smell it made my whole house. This morning the smell was finally gone. The lard melted to about 125 degrees and I even took it off the stove when it was about 90% melted and just let the heat of the stove melt the rest


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## BrewerGeorge (Aug 29, 2016)

Desirae said:


> ...Been sitting for about 2.5 hrs  now and all I smell is the stinch  stink of the lard,  so hopefully  tomorrow  when I take the bars out  of the mold add is still way to soft to take our yet,  I'm hoping I'll actually  be able to smell the fragrance , if I still smell lard stinch  then it's going in the trash and starting over and this time with the gv  shortening....



Don't Throw Away Soap!

Even if the smell never goes away (It will.) and you don't want to use it, you still have a soap to use for testing purposes.  In a real way, a soap you don't like is probably more useful than one you love because you put those bars away for age testing, and see how properties change over time.

That said, the smell WILL go away.  The smell is an organic compound too, and it will get eaten by the lye as the soap ages.


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## Desirae (Aug 29, 2016)

Susie: 1.) I don't use lard for cooking, I didn't know what lard was till you told me, another person on here had said they used it for cooking . 2.) Lesson learned I won't use vanilla extract again, thank you for telling me not to 3.) I didn't unmold my bars this morning they were still too soft so they're still sitting there there mold. 4) you said you have me % you set it up for weights, I'm a little lost on that one. When I put in the percentages of each of those about half way down the page it listed those same oils listed in grams, was that wrong? Did I do it wrong? I didn't change anything on the calculator all I did was add the oils I left everything else the way it was.



BrewerGeorge said:


> Don't Throw Away Soap!
> 
> Even if the smell never goes away (It will.) and you don't want to use it, you still have a soap to use for testing purposes. In a real way, a soap you don't like is probably more useful than one you love because you put those bars away for age testing, and see how properties change over time.
> 
> That said, the smell WILL go away. The smell is an organic compound too, and it will get eaten by the lye as the soap ages.


 
Ok that's a good thing to know, thank you


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## dixiedragon (Aug 29, 2016)

*waves from Alabama* Most of us are in the US, actually! Welcome! You can get Lard at walmart. It's in a green and white bucket in the baking section.

Are you very sensitive to the scent of pork? When I melt lard for my soaps it does smell just a bit porky/bacony, but that smell is not present in the final soap, to my nose. Some people can pick it up and dislike it.


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## Desirae (Aug 29, 2016)

dixiedragon said:


> *waves from Alabama* Most of us are in the US, actually! Welcome! You can get Lard at walmart. It's in a green and white bucket in the baking section.
> 
> Are you very sensitive to the scent of pork? When I melt lard for my soaps it does smell just a bit porky/bacony, but that smell is not present in the final soap, to my nose. Some people can pick it up and dislike it.



I am finding that every state carries different products at there walmart I have 2 within 20 min of me and both carry the same brand, Lundy, this is the ONLY brand of lard they carry and is in a red and white container, it was located in the spice area, I did go look at the mexican/foreign section, no lard, so unless I order a different brand online (which I've been doing alot of lately bc most of things I want, I can't find in store, like silicone molds, yup my walmart doesn't carry anything silicone molds related) 

I'm not usually sensitive to the smell of pork, I cook and eat it at least 1-2x  week and never had a bad smell, but this stuff made my whole 2 story house stink, I melted it on low til it was about 90% melted then turned the stove off and let the heat of the stove melt the rest, same with my CO


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## Desirae (Aug 29, 2016)

BrewerGeorge said:


> Don't Throw Away Soap!
> 
> Even if the smell never goes away (It will.) and you don't want to use it, you still have a soap to use for testing purposes.  In a real way, a soap you don't like is probably more useful than one you love because you put those bars away for age testing, and see how properties change over time.
> 
> That said, the smell WILL go away.  The smell is an organic compound too, and it will get eaten by the lye as the soap ages.



Sorry reading through the beginner forums I cam across 1 persons question and it peaked my curiosity on something you had said, it was a newbie with few ingredients, you had told her that since she didn't have castor oil she can use a teaspoon of sugar instead and for hardness a teaspoon of ionized salt, if castor oil does both of those, wouldn't it be more cost effective to just use that instead of the castor oil?


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## Susie (Aug 29, 2016)

Sugar helps create bubbles.  Saponified Castor Oil helps to keep the bubbles/lather created stable.  Completely different purposes.  

Salt will help harden your soap.  That recipe should not require it.  It needs time as it is individual molds rather than a loaf.  Loaves hold the heat, so the soap gels.  That helps harden it faster than ungelled soap.

Salt has to be mixed with water before the NaOH.  I mix sugar with 1 oz of water pulled from the total, dissolve it, then add that to my oils.  Best to stick to a basic recipe without additives until you get the hang of this, though. 

Where did you get your scents?  And are you positive they are CP soap safe?


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## dixiedragon (Aug 29, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Sorry reading through the beginner forums I cam across 1 persons question and it peaked my curiosity on something you had said, it was a newbie with few ingredients, you had told her that since she didn't have castor oil she can use a teaspoon of sugar instead and for hardness a teaspoon of ionized salt, if castor oil does both of those, wouldn't it be more cost effective to just use that instead of the castor oil?


 
Castor does not cause soap to harden. I personally haven't tried using sugar instead of castor. 

The lard being THAT stinky is really weird. maybe it was an off batch?


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## dibbles (Aug 29, 2016)

I would say don't give up on lard just yet. It really makes wonderful soap. I have to use a microwave to melt/heat my oils and will get a piggy smell, especially when I don't keep a close enough eye on it. Only once, using a very high lard recipe, did I notice the smell after the soap came out of the mold. I have found that if I keep lard to 50% or lower I never have a trace of lard smell past cure. Are you using enough FO/EO? I don't have an issue with higher coconut oil soaps, so my usual is 20% CO, 35-40% lard, 10% avocado, sweet almond, high oleic sunflower, 3-5% castor and the rest OO. Even though I can smell the lard when it is heating up, when I walk into my soaping space (in the basement), I never smell lard after the soap has been poured into the mold. 

I use Armor brand, because that is what is available to me locally. My walmart has the single pounds and the plastic buckets and they are found by the oils and shortening. My grocery store has it by the oils and shortening, and also has some single pounds in the refrigerated meat section near the bacon. 

Sugar is added as a bubble booster, salt is added for hardness. Castor oil is used for stabilizing lather and a little oomph.


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## BrewerGeorge (Aug 29, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Sorry reading through the beginner forums I cam across 1 persons question and it peaked my curiosity on something you had said, it was a newbie with few ingredients, you had told her that since she didn't have castor oil she can use a teaspoon of sugar instead and for hardness a teaspoon of ionized salt, if castor oil does both of those, wouldn't it be more cost effective to just use that instead of the castor oil?



Susie mostly answered as I would have, but if I guessing right about which thread you're talking about I was discouraging the poster from paying the high price of castor oil as a laxative and go ahead without it.  It certainly helps, but is not required.  The sugar does not replace the  castor, but serves the purpose Susie said.  As for sugar and salt, since they are ubiquitous and helpful there is little reason not to use them.  BTW, the usage rate I prefer is 1 teaspoon *per pound of oils* for both salt and sugar.    I typically use all three in an average bar.


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## Desirae (Aug 29, 2016)

Susie said:


> Sugar helps create bubbles.  Saponified Castor Oil helps to keep the bubbles/lather created stable.  Completely different purposes.
> 
> Salt will help harden your soap.  That recipe should not require it.  It needs time as it is individual molds rather than a loaf.  Loaves hold the heat, so the soap gels.  That helps harden it faster than ungelled soap.
> 
> ...




I bought my FO from natures garden and did check each one before buying that they were cp/ body safe. My EO which I use only in my body butter and sugar scrubs are from doTerra and plant therapy.

I don't plan to use the sugar, if it doesn't keep bubbles no sense in using it right.

I did read up on the whole to gel or not to gel, and I did cover up my molds with a hand towel, I used butcher paper to cover mold directly then covered that with my towel. Was that alright to do, since I don't own a heating pad to lay it on? Which is what I read to do if you want to gel


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## shunt2011 (Aug 29, 2016)

Nature's Garden is a reputable soaping supply company so you are good there.  

Sugar does help with bubbles.  I use 1 tsp PPO.

Gelling isn't necessary, it just takes longer to unmold and the possiblity of partial gel which is no problem either just cosmetic.  I gel all my soaps, if using individual molds it's harder to do so will likely need to place in a preheated oven (lowest temp).  Turn off when you place soap in there.  Leave 24 hours.

A heating pad isn't necessary, I didn't have very good luck the time or two I tried that.  Didn't seem to permeate through my wood molds.

If using a loaf mold, if wood you can just cover and wrap in towels, it should gel (depending on watern discount).  Higher water the quicker to gel.  I use 29-30% lately and have no problem getting gel with a doubled over towel.  I use silicone lined wood molds.


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## Arimara (Aug 29, 2016)

When using an indiviual mold, I place the mold on top of a heating pad in a container, cover it with a towel and place the lid on the container. It's served me well and saves me from having to use the oven.


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## BrewerGeorge (Aug 29, 2016)

Arimara said:


> When using an indiviual mold, I place the mold on top of a heating pad in a container, cover it with a towel and place the lid on the container. It's served me well and saves me from having to use the oven.


Plus One

Especially since individual molds are often going to be silicone, which is super-easy to overheat and get that pock-marked surface effect if you use the oven.


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## Desirae (Aug 29, 2016)

One thing that I've been looking all over the forum doing a general search and maybe I'm just looking it up wrong,  I understand you can't use or is a bad idea I should say to use tap/spring/mineral water to mix with the lye and is only a good idea to use distilled,  however I own 2 reef aquariums so we have to run an RO  system for our tanks  otherwise  the nitrate/nitrite/phosphate  will kill all our coral, so since my 4 stage RO system is specifically  designed  to pull all impurities  out of the tap water,  wouldn't it be safe to use that?  Rather then running to the store every time I need a gallon  of distilled  water?  Lack of space not to mention to house gallons of water,  and is not going to cost me anything to use the water from my RO unit since I have to run it anyways for my reef tanks. 

Ok to use 4 stage RO unit or must it be distilled water?


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## BrewerGeorge (Aug 29, 2016)

I use RO water for mine.  It's pure enough.


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## Desirae (Aug 29, 2016)

BrewerGeorge said:


> I use RO water for mine.  It's pure enough.



Ok good,  thanks for letting me know


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## Susie (Aug 29, 2016)

We have a 100 gal reef aquarium, not quite big enough to justify a RO/DI system, but I would use that water.


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## cmzaha (Aug 30, 2016)

topofmurrayhill said:


> This is understandably what people feel, and it's frequently repeated, but it's not based on fact.
> 
> They take whole palm oil and fractionate it to derive that liquid olein that's used as cooking oil. In that initial fractionation, they separate the liquid from the solid more efficiently than you can at home even if you were trying to do that. Nonetheless, that liquid olein is still so similar in fatty acid composition that you could use it in a typical recipe and not notice the difference. You can even see that in SoapCalc of you compare the palm oil and palm olein listings.
> 
> ...


I never melt down my entire bucket of palm, when it liquefies due to weather I stir when solid I just scoop out from different areas of the bucket and have never had a problem


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## earlene (Sep 8, 2016)

Welcome to the forum, *Desirae*.  How does your soap look and smell now?

I was away on vacation and missed your thread when you were posting, but just began reviewing some I have missed and found yours quite interesting.

Re: the odor of lard, I have a pretty sensitive nose myself, so I can empathize with your husband (and you, too of course) in regards to the odor in the house the day you made that soap.  As a vegetarian, I don't normally keep lard in the house at all, even though I did used to use it for making tortillas and especially for making refried beans, but that was in my youth.  I stopped using lard for cooking decades ago and had not purchased any until a three months ago to try out in some soap for my brother.  

The first one I made for him is now 3 months old, and the odor is almost completely gone now.  But when I first made it my nose was not happy with the odor at all.  Then while in Texas at my son's house I made a pumice bar using lard and let me tell you, I was not the only one who hated the odor of the lard.  My DIL said it made her feel nauseated, and my granddaughter also disliked the smell.  This was after I had begun to cut the soap into bars.  The soap is now 7 weeks old and the odor is not at all as offensive to me as it was when freshly made, but it surely does not smell as nice to my nose as an all vegetable oil soap.  But that's just me and my nose, I am sure.  I am confident the lard was not rancid.  I can ID rancidity with this sensitive nose of mine quite easily.  Anyway, I now have 2 soaps of different ages to compare against each other regarding the lard odor, made about a month apart and both without added fragrance.

I intend to try IrishLass' lard mimicking recipe and see how it compares against actual lard. I'll do it as a 100% lard versus the 100% lard 'dupe'.  Seems like it will be a fun project.  I'll make them both fragrance-free and without any other additives to skew the results.



IrishLass said:


> If you want to make a veggie-based soap without lard, but which might  feel as if you actually used lard, I came up with a blend of fats (on  paper) to hopefully mimic the feel of lard, solely based on their fatty  acid profiles. When mixed together/combined, it's very close to the  fatty acid profile of lard (at least on paper). I haven't tried it out  yet in real life, mind you, so I can't vouch for how it will truly  behave or feel in product, but for what it's worth, here are the  proportions of it: 55% palm oil, 30% shea butter; 15% olive oil.  Combined, it should (hopefully) mimic the qualities of lard.IrishLass :smile:



IrishLass also mentioned Spectrum Brand Palm Oil, but I did not see mention of where to purchase that so I thought I'd tell you if you are interested.  Target sells it in their food aisles.  It looks like this:  






It is 100% palm oil.  Here is more information about it if you are interested in sustainability.
If you don't have a Target Store nearby, you can also order it on Amazon, and I have seen it in other grocery stores in my travels, but don't really recall if I saw it in your state or not.


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## dixiedragon (Sep 8, 2016)

re: water - I use tap water in my soap. never had a problem with it. I do use distilled water for my lotion.


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## Desirae (Sep 8, 2016)

earlene said:


> Welcome to the forum, *Desirae*.  How does your soap look and smell now?
> 
> I was away on vacation and missed your thread when you were posting, but just began reviewing some I have missed and found yours quite interesting.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry for my late reply, I just got notification  that there was a post for me.  As for the product  you mentioned,  I've checked my target store and ther food area is pretty limited  compared to other target stores which is odd since I love in a rather large city.  Unfortunately  my target doesn't carry lard of any kind at all . As for my 1 st batch,  I followed the recipe  and did all the measurement s as the lye calc told me and last time I checked on it,  the bar almost feels as if it were rubber. It stI'll has a funny smell just can't describe  what the smell is,  but it's not a good smell,  idk  if it's the lye or the lard, but I sure wouldn't want to wash myself with it,  even with the fragrance  I put  in it,  you can't smell it at all.  I may try one more time doing cp soap using palm oil add I have the squeeze bottle type that u bought from the soap queen which I forgot I ordered because  getting it speed to me took a ridiculous  amount of time (almost 2 weeks) which is absurd to take that long.  So I'll try that out,  if I so don't have success in my book,  I'm going to chuck doing cp soap  and stick with m&p  only.

I did do the zap test and didn't get a zap so I'm assuming it's ready? But I thought it was suppose to take 4 weeks? It's only been about 2 and a half weeks since I make the batch. I used exact amount of distilled water and lye combo so I don't know what I did wrong if the zap test shouldn't work til the 4 weeks.

When you in m&p can I use powdered goats milk? Or is that for use in cp only?

Wish me luck my next round of cp goes better this time


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## Susie (Sep 8, 2016)

Zapless means safe.  It does not mean cured.  Cure takes time.  Stick to your 4-6 weeks time frame for cure.


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## Desirae (Sep 8, 2016)

Susie said:


> Zapless means safe.  It does not mean cured.  Cure takes time.  Stick to your 4-6 weeks time frame for cure.



Will do, thank you. 

It's this strictly  soap and candle forum? Or can I find recipes on body butter, lotions, lotion bars and how to make hand sanitizer on this forum?


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## Susie (Sep 8, 2016)

Look down to the Bath and Body Forum.


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## earlene (Sep 8, 2016)

Desirae said:


> I'm sorry for my late reply, I just got notification  that there was a post for me.  As for the product  you mentioned,  I've checked my target store and ther food area is pretty limited  compared to other target stores which is odd since I love in a rather large city.  Unfortunately  my target doesn't carry lard of any kind at all .



The product I mentioned is not lard.  It is Palm Oil.  The brand name is Spectrum.  

I did also discuss lard, so that's probably why the confusion.



Desirae said:


> As for my 1 st batch,  I followed the recipe  and did all the measurement s as the lye calc told me and last time I checked on it,  the bar almost feels as if it were rubber. It stI'll has a funny smell just can't describe  what the smell is,  but it's not a good smell,  idk  if it's the lye or the lard, but I sure wouldn't want to wash myself with it,  even with the fragrance  I put  in it,  you can't smell it at all.



Give it more time.  As I said previously, at 7 weeks the lard odor is not totally gone from one of my soaps, but at 3 months it is almost gone from another one.  (I have only made those 2 lard soaps so far.)



Desirae said:


> I may try one more time doing cp soap using palm oil add I have the squeeze bottle type that u bought from the soap queen which I forgot I ordered because  getting it speed to me took a ridiculous  amount of time (almost 2 weeks) which is absurd to take that long.  So I'll try that out,  if I so don't have success in my book,  I'm going to chuck doing cp soap  and stick with m&p  only.



If you choose to give up after only 2 tries, that is your choice, of course.  But perhaps you might want to come back to it at a later date, which is fine too.  Since you bought so much oils, if it were me, I'd use them all up before making that decision, though.  Sometimes it takes more practice to get the hang of things and show improvement.




Desirae said:


> When you in m&p can I use powdered goats milk? Or is that for use in cp only?



Regarding MP, I don't do enough to answer your questions.  If you post  those questions in the MP forum the MP experts will more likely see and  answer.


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## Arimara (Sep 9, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Will do, thank you.
> 
> It's this strictly  soap and candle forum? Or can I find recipes on body butter, lotions, lotion bars and how to make hand sanitizer on this forum?



Check the recipe sub-forum or the bath and body section. I warn you- you will have to learn who Susan is and why her blog is the one of the most valuable assets for anything bath & body related. We will refer to her a lot when it comes to B&B crafting. She is also one of the few people we may suggest to you upfront to donate some money to. She uses it for really good causes and as extensive as her blog is, the little bit she asks more barely begins to pay for the information she has share. But, that in no way means that we won't try to to help you out.


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## Desirae (Sep 9, 2016)

earlene said:


> The product I mentioned is not lard.  It is Palm Oil.  The brand name is Spectrum.
> 
> I did also discuss lard, so that's probably why the confusion.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the input, I haven't completely decided, and I've got so many ideas in my head that I want to try but a little afraid I'll completely fail at it have wasted all the supplies/money used to make it for it to be a total flop and end up throwing it away. 
I think I did get confused and will look at my target store for that product see if they carry it.


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## Desirae (Sep 9, 2016)

Arimara said:


> Check the recipe sub-forum or the bath and body section. I warn you- you will have to learn who Susan is and why her blog is the one of the most valuable assets for anything bath & body related. We will refer to her a lot when it comes to B&B crafting. She is also one of the few people we may suggest to you upfront to donate some money to. She uses it for really good causes and as extensive as her blog is, the little bit she asks more barely begins to pay for the information she has share. But, that in no way means that we won't try to to help you out.


I did come across her site, and to be honest I was a bit overwhelmed as to where I could find the recipes but then again I was on my phone so really wasn't able to fully look through it, which I will for sure tonight as I'd like to get more ideas or better recipes then what I have


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## Arimara (Sep 9, 2016)

Desirae said:


> I did come across her site, and to be honest I was a bit overwhelmed as to where I could find the recipes but then again I was on my phone so really wasn't able to fully look through it, which I will for sure tonight as I'd like to get more ideas or better recipes then what I have



She has a beginner recipe. I could look through it and find it later if someone doesn't. It is overwhelming but it really is worth it in the end. I did forget about the Soap Queen though. She's also good to look at without being overly sciency to boot.


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## Desirae (Sep 9, 2016)

Can someone tell me where I can find rice bran oil? My walmart and food lion doesn't carry it and it seems like any recipe  I look at has it in the recipe, better yet what can I use in place of it. V just a generalized question as I'm looking through lots of recipes  on pintrist


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## BrewerGeorge (Sep 9, 2016)

Rice bran is primarily used as a cheaper alternative to Olive oil.  Since you can find olive almost anywhere and probably have to order Rice bran if you're in the USA, just replace with olive. (Running the new recipe through a calculator, of course!)


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## dixiedragon (Sep 9, 2016)

You can order rice bran oil at Soaper's Choice. I think some Asian groceries carry it as well.

It's not critical the way that (IMO), lard, coconut, olive and castor are. You could replace it with some olive or sunflower (my preference) or canola or soy (not my preference). 

If you are using it in a B&B product (such as lotion or lip balm), I would recommend something nicer like olive or avocado (you can get avocado for a decent price at Costco).

ETA: I like Swiftcraftymonkey a lot, but it is very dense reading! What worked for me was recipes from Majestic Mountain Sage and Brambleberry. I dipped my toe into lotions with them, then I rambled around SwiftCraftyMonkey to gather more info.


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## cmzaha (Sep 9, 2016)

Many restaurant suppliers carry RBO. I can get it at Restaurant Depot, but do not because I really do not like it or the color of the oil.


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## Arimara (Sep 9, 2016)

I found rice bran oil in Whole Foods. Decided to buy that since I don't want to pay more to order it than what it cost me in the store.


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## chela1261 (Sep 17, 2016)

I buy my rice bran oil at Soapers Choice. I get the 7 lb jug because I use it in all my soaps. They have great prices and their shipping is reasonable


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## DeeAnna (Sep 17, 2016)

Another alternative to RBO is high oleic sunflower or HO safflower. Both of these are available at Soaper's Choice. You can also find both in grocery stores if you just want to buy a small amount to try. If you do, be sure the oil says "high oleic" or "good for frying/sauteeing" or something like that. There are low oleic versions of sunflower and safflower, and they aren't the same as the high oleic oils. 

I have used all three oils, but I especially like HO sunflower. The linoleic acid content in HO sunflower is quite a bit lower than RBO. The oleic acid content is almost double that of RBO -- higher even than olive oil. 

That said, HO safflower is probably the closest match to olive oil as far as the percentages of the different fatty acids, so if you want a very similar substitute for olive, HO safflower would fit the bill.


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## penelopejane (Sep 17, 2016)

Just so it is clear you can make soap without lard! 

^^^
DeeAnna
Does sunflower oil HO have any DOS problems?
I can't get safflower in the supermarkets here.

Other than the different acids in the three oils you mention how do they compare, to you, on the skin?


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## Susie (Sep 17, 2016)

penelopejane said:


> Just so it is clear you can make soap without lard!



So who said you couldn't?  We have lots of folks who make vegetable oil only soaps.


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## DeeAnna (Sep 17, 2016)

HO sunflower is a reasonably stable oil -- as or more stable as olive. I'm comfortable using it. I haven't made 100% HO sunflower soap to know how it feels, but I have made 100% HO safflower soap and 100% olive soap. They are about the same to me as far as lather quality and quantity and the feel of my skin after washing.


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## topofmurrayhill (Sep 17, 2016)

HO Sunflower is my standard oleic oil. In bulk, I've had it last for years in a dark place that's chilly in the winter.


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## Desirae (Sep 18, 2016)

DeeAnna said:


> HO sunflower is a reasonably stable oil -- as or more stable as olive. I'm comfortable using it. I haven't made 100% HO sunflower soap to know how it feels, but I have made 100% HO safflower soap and 100% olive soap. They are about the same to me as far as lather quality and quantity and the feel of my skin after washing.



Thanks for the input,  question,  what does HO stand for?  Doing a general search in my stores sunflower  oil is more expensive  then olive oil and none of my stores carry safflower  oil so I can only order it online,  because  olive oilv is still a bit pricey nor can I find it in any larger  then 1.5 liter bottle I was hoping that they rice bran would be of same value  as  I noticed  is nearly half the cost of olive oil.


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## Desirae (Sep 18, 2016)

Also I have noticed that a lot of recipes  and even soap queen use both olive & rice bran in there recipe  so if both are of similar  value  then what's the purpose  of using both,  why not use 100% olive or 100% RBN?


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## kchaystack (Sep 18, 2016)

HO stands for high oleic.   Oleic acid is one of the fatty acids that make up the oils we use


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## Arimara (Sep 18, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Also I have noticed that a lot of recipes  and even soap queen use both olive & rice bran in there recipe  so if both are of similar  value  then what's the purpose  of using both,  why not use 100% olive or 100% RBN?



High amounts of rice bran oil is said to contribute to DOS. I would not risk it.


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## cmzaha (Sep 19, 2016)

When I tried RBO I did have dos issues, but I have never mid oleic or HO sunflower oil, nor have I ever had dos with regular Canola. I now use HO Canola since I find it at the restaurant supply store. Costco has the best price for olive oil. You get their cheapest one that is 2 bottles for around $25. It works out even cheaper than my going to my oil supplier and picking up bulk, so I purchase my OO at Costco. It saves me putting out a hundred bucks for 5 gallons/35 lbs. I am not a big fan of high olive oil in soap but I do like a combination of Olive and Canola. There is a recipe for a soap called Canolive II on http://www.millersoap.com/soapallveg.html#Canolive that is a great soap. I kept one, using it off and on, for over a year with no dos. It was sent to me in a swap and was a lovely soap


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## Desirae (Sep 19, 2016)

Arimara said:


> High amounts of rice bran oil is said to contribute to DOS. I would not risk it.



OK thanks for the tip, I learned something new lol


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## penelopejane (Sep 19, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Also I have noticed that a lot of recipes  and even soap queen use both olive & rice bran in there recipe  so if both are of similar  value  then what's the purpose  of using both,  why not use 100% olive or 100% RBN?


RBO is half the price of OO. RBO adds a bit of a silky feel and takes less time to cure than OO. I have not had any DOS problems with RBO even at high percentages. I think that high percentages of RBO make a softer soap. I use it at 10% but even 20% seems fine.


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## topofmurrayhill (Sep 19, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Also I have noticed that a lot of recipes  and even soap queen use both olive & rice bran in there recipe  so if both are of similar  value  then what's the purpose  of using both,  why not use 100% olive or 100% RBN?



The idea of RBO being a replacement for olive oil began 10 years ago, but it's not quite as true as it's sometimes made out to be. This suggestion is often passed along with the warning label missing.

Olive oil is an oleic oil, because the characteristic fatty acid it's composed of is oleic acid. The most direct replacement would be another oleic oil. In terms of availability and price, these days I would say that the best choices are the new high-oleic versions of oils such as sunflower, safflower or canola (I would consider them in that order).

RBO is an unusual oil that's harder to classify than most. It has a good helping of oleic and palmitic acid, which is good for soaping. But unlike olive and other oleic oils, it also contains a generous amount of linoleic acid. In large quantities, this is not good for soaping. Linoleic saponifies slowly, adds too much softness, and is prone to oxidation (orange discoloration or spots).

To put it simply, the usage rate for olive oil is universally agreed to be up to 100% of your recipe and for RBO it's much less that 100%. There's no official number, but we could say something like 40% maximum, and personally I wouldn't go that high.

It would be educational to look at the fatty acid numbers at the lower left of the SoapCalc screen. For directly comparable oils that are suitable for substitution, the numbers there will be similar. If you click on olive oil and then rice bran oil in the list, you will see how different the fatty acid numbers are. That means the oils are fundamentally different.


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