# Reversing Saponification



## donniej (Nov 5, 2009)

This experiment was to answer the question "can you unsoap soap?"   

The answer is yes.  

Take some scraps and grate them with a cheese grater or cut into small pieces.  Mix with vinegar until all the soap is broken apart.  You will see an oily layer form on top of the vinegar, this is the soap becoming oil again.  The lye is netralized by the vinegar (acetic acid) and becomes sodium acetate (harmless).  The relaeased fatty acids reattach to the glycerin and become oil again.

Now heat some water and mix in as much salt as the water will take.  Boil the salt water and add some more shaved/grated soap scraps.  The soap will curd and float on top, the glycerin will be absorbed into the salt water.  Scoop out the curds and wash them with warm water.  Mix the curds with vinegar, shaking them in a mason jar works well.  The soap is no longer soap, the lye is nuetralized and you now have pure fatty acids.  You will notice that they're waxy and don't clean or suds or disolve in water anymore.  

I'm guessing you can use these fatty acids to make candles if your base oil was high in stearic acid.  Light oils with olenic and linolenic acid will be greasy.  

If anyone tries this, let me know how it worked for you.


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## Half Caper Farm (Nov 5, 2009)

Which then raises the next question - whyyyyy?


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## donniej (Nov 5, 2009)

Because I can


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## tamarajane (Nov 5, 2009)

Good answer!


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## Half Caper Farm (Nov 5, 2009)

Allllrighty then.   8)


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## artisan soaps (Nov 5, 2009)

..


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## TessC (Nov 5, 2009)

Gonna do this with my son as an experiment, thanks!


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## dandelion (Nov 5, 2009)

will this take place even after soap has cured?

I wonder this since some soapers say all the lye is "gone" in well cured soap


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## IanT (Nov 5, 2009)

donniej said:
			
		

> This experiment was to answer the question "can you unsoap soap?"
> 
> The answer is yes.
> 
> ...



You rock!! 

Whats your next project!!!??!?!?! Avidly waiting for the next one in the series!


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## blueberrylolli (Nov 5, 2009)

i've added sulfur in hot process at the end of the cook, which should be more acidic than vinegar, but the soap doesn't revert back to oil?


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## carebear (Nov 5, 2009)

and because it's neat.  and an opportunity to learn - chemistry lab, but this time in YOUR kitchen and no grade!

more chemistry in action.


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## carebear (Nov 5, 2009)

what is the pH of the sulfur?


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## IanT (Nov 5, 2009)

carebear said:
			
		

> what is the pH of the sulfur?



looked allllll over the place and all i ve found is that it lowers ph but doesnt give an actual PH of the water... hmmmmmm... 

if anyone finds it post it!  now im interested...


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## blueberrylolli (Nov 5, 2009)

ph of sulfuric acid is 0.3 (which im guessing is web sulfur?  :roll: )


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## carebear (Nov 5, 2009)

zero point three?  really?

not just 3?


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## donniej (Nov 5, 2009)

sulfuric acid is a very powerful acid.
sulfur is not an acid and won't do anything.


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## carebear (Nov 5, 2009)

donnie, I thought the same but came across many references to adding sulfur (elemental sulfur?) to soil to acidify it.  so wuz confused.  still am.


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## Absinthe (Nov 6, 2009)

Sulfer will mess up your silicone molds... Does that count as something?


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## IanT (Nov 6, 2009)

carebear said:
			
		

> donnie, I thought the same but came across many references to adding sulfur (elemental sulfur?) to soil to acidify it.  so wuz confused.  still am.



Yeah same here! I saw a TON of references on that...


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## dagmar88 (Nov 6, 2009)

carebear said:
			
		

> donnie, I thought the same but came across many references to adding sulfur (elemental sulfur?) to soil to acidify it.  so wuz confused.  still am.



yup, that's what we used it for when I used to work at the tomato greenhouse...
Supposedly the sulfur has a chemical reaction with water and can turn into an acidic gas?


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## donniej (Nov 6, 2009)

Elemental sulfur (S) bonds with water (H20) to form a very diluted sulfuric acid (H2SO4).  I doubt it's strong enough to break break up soap.


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## Absinthe (Nov 6, 2009)

well if you want sulfuric acid, why not use sulfuric acid. 

http://secure.sciencecompany.com/Sulfur ... 0C670.aspx

Last I remember you could get a dilute form as electrolyte  for use in automotive batteries at the auto parts store. 

But now you are dealing with a different acid so your resulting byproducts may be different. 

I would think that Hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid)would be a good choice, that way you get NaCl (table salt) if it actually works


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## Absinthe (Nov 6, 2009)

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3926829.html

Here is some interesting information regarding HCl to superfat soap.


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## donniej (Nov 8, 2009)

Absinthe said:
			
		

> I would think that Hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid)would be a good choice, that way you get NaCl (table salt) if it actually works



That would work fine but most people have vinegar laying around.  

Muriatic acid is easy to get but is a little more potent then most people would care to handle... unlike lye    (kidding!)


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## Absinthe (Nov 8, 2009)

I used to put it in my pool to adjust the pH, I think.  Pretty harmless stuff as long as you don't get it on you or breath it in or get it in your eyes and stuff.


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