# Recipe advice for newbie



## lanafana (Feb 6, 2014)

Hello everyone!

I am new to this forum (first post) although I've followed for a while. I was wondering if anyone out there could help me create a recipe with the ingredients I have on hand. 

Olive oil
Coconut oil
Shea butter
Goats milk
(And of course lye)

Is it possible to make a quality soap with only these ingredients. Or do it have to get other oils, as I see most recipes have several oils listed (at least four). And could I superfat with one of these oils or would I need something else like castor, etc. Lastly, around what percentage of each oil should I use. Sorry for all the questions! Any help would be greatly appreciated as these are the oils most readily available to me on a regular basis.


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## My Mountain Soaps (Feb 6, 2014)

i would do all the oils and butters, or a milk soap. Milks are hard to do for your first one, so i would do the oils and butters, make them a few times so that you can get a bit comfy with how the lye reacts. My favorite soap is 100% olive oil and then lye. You can make a fine soap with the oils and butters you have. Maybe do a 70% olive oil 25% coconut oil 5% shae? and use soap calc of course. study the numbers on the results page, and see if that is what you would like. otherwise, revamp the numbers to make it do what you want. good luck!


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## lanafana (Feb 6, 2014)

You're awesome, thanks for replying!! I am beyond excited to start making soap. I am overwhelmed (and a bit confused) with all the info out there though. I really need some guidance. Thanks again for the suggestion.


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## My Mountain Soaps (Feb 6, 2014)

also wait for a few others to reply and see what they have to say about recipes, they may have a better percentage usage than i do. That, and become very familiar with soapcalc long before you start. there is no need for two confusing things at a time, so play with soap calc till you develope a recipe that you are really interested in.


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## Seawolfe (Feb 6, 2014)

I made a soap with 30% coconut oil and 70% olive oil at 5% superfat that hubby just loves. No scent and it cleans really well, but I find it a bit drying. Maybe try 25%  coconut, 10% Shea and 30% olive oil with 5-7% superfat? Play around on http://www.soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp to see if that would do what you want.

Edit to add: I'm new as well, and  I've not yet used any liquid but water, so I can't speak for the milk.


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## lanafana (Feb 6, 2014)

Thanks so much! Can I superfat with one of these oils as well? And yes, I really do need to get the hang of soapcalc as it seems to be a great tool. Just seems a bit daunting at times making sure the numbers are right (or read right). I'll definitely post my first attempt at soap making (if it doesn't come out embarrassingly horrible...)

I've read here and other places using a high percentage of olive oil can be tricky. What has your experience been? Does this only apply to Castile soap? And although soap is not naturally moisturizing, are there ways to make it less drying still using these oils and butters? Any other tips are welcome!


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## lanafana (Feb 6, 2014)

I have goats, so....I was thinking why not use the milk in the soap as it seems to have great properties for the skin. Is it really difficult to use? I thought if I freeze the milk and add the lye slowly and carefully I wouldn't have too many problems. Of course this is all in theory


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## My Mountain Soaps (Feb 6, 2014)

olive oil is extremely moisturizing for me. Everything else dries me out. I am no expert, and am still learning about superfatting myself. I normally superfat at 8%, giving myself an increased margin of error. i have never had trouble with Olive Oil. just be sure to NOT insulate the mold, especially if it is a wood mold. I have never made castile soap either, and the oils you have are great oils.


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## lanafana (Feb 6, 2014)

I know superfatting is adding the oil at trace, but can I super fat with any oil? ie olive oil/coconut oil?


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## My Mountain Soaps (Feb 6, 2014)

lanafana said:


> I have goats, so....I was thinking why not use the milk in the soap as it seems to have great properties for the skin. Is it really difficult to use? I thought if I freeze the milk and add the lye slowly and carefully I wouldn't have too many problems. Of course this is all in theory



i have attempted to make milk soap three times, and have failed miserably at all. i have no idea why either, i did as you said, froze the milk and added it slowly, and it failed. one day i will venture towards milks again to conquer that now ugly beast  but yes, milks are harder to deal with when starting out.


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## My Mountain Soaps (Feb 6, 2014)

lanafana said:


> I know superfatting is adding the oil at trace, but can I super fat with any oil? ie olive oil/coconut oil?



that i am unsure of, sorry, you'll have to wait for someone who knows more than I do. This is where Hazel and Lizflowers42 come to the rescue usually


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## lanafana (Feb 6, 2014)

Sorry to hear about the failed attempts, although I strongly believe that not trying at all would be a true failure...so next time!! You know when people talk about it or make a video it  seems so easy, lol. There is nothing like experience I guess.


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## Seawolfe (Feb 6, 2014)

You can do your superfatting by just melting and mixing up all the oils before you mix in the lye and water - that's the easy way and works just fine. I've only added specific oils to super fat after HP. If your bound and determined to add a specific oil, I would make it the Shea 'cause it's so nice and fancy, but honestly, I would just keep it simple and mix all the oils together. Get a feel for what trace is like, decide is you want it to gel (insulate and keep it warm) or not. If you're using unrefined Shea, it adds a lovely yellow color to the soap..


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## green soap (Feb 6, 2014)

lanafana said:


> I know superfatting is adding the oil at trace, but can I super fat with any oil? ie olive oil/coconut oil?



in cold process soaps the superfat is the same proportion and composition of your soaping oils.  Soapcalc and other calculators just take the lye deficiency from the start, so you do not need to add the superfat at trace.  In hot process you can add your superfat after saponification is complete.  Most people choose a fancy oil good for your skin.  

Which one are you doing?

Also, soaping with milk is tricky but doable if you freeze the milk first.  I wrote a tutorial for a goat milk castile that shows you how to deal with the milk.

http://hoeggerfarmyard.com/how-to-make-a-goat-milk-castile-bar-soap/


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## Obsidian (Feb 6, 2014)

lanafana said:


> I know superfatting is adding the oil at trace, but can I super fat with any oil? ie olive oil/coconut oil?



Yes, any oil works for superfatting. When you make CP, the lye will use which ever oils it wants, you won't be able to choose which remain after saponification. If you want a certain oil to remain, you will need to make HP.

What kind of skin do you have? If you have really dry skin, you will want a lower amount of coconut.


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## grayceworks (Feb 7, 2014)

Some things to consider: 

Make sure all your percents add up to 100% (not including the superfat%) -- soapcalc will remind you if they don't add up. 

I would agree with others and not try using the milk on your first try. It can be very tricky, as it can A) scorch and B) overheat the soap. 

I would suggest using just water for your liquid until you experience how the whole soap-making process goes from start to finish without any complicating factors. 

100% Olive Oil soaps are lovely for dry skin, but take a LONG time to cure -- up to a year to cure for the best results. And they take a long time to reach trace when making them. Probably not a soap for the first batch, as it can be frustrating.  Also, Olive oil soaps tend to be less bubbly and more creamy with their lather, and a bit slippery. Some people don't like this aspect. I don't mind. And the longer they cure, the better they bubble. 

When using coconut oil, most would recommend amounts under 20% to avoid being too cleansing/drying. Alternately, one could use 100% coconut oil with a very high superfat of at least 15-20%. 100% coconut oil soaps will trace very quickly and become very hard very quickly, so also probably not a good first soap. 

Even a 0 cleansing number in soapcalc will clean just fine.  It just means it won't strip as many oils from your skin. The higher the cleansing number, the more oils the soap will attach to and wash down the drain. 

DO click on all the tips and explanations in soapcalc and also, here on SMF, search for DeeAnna's explanations of what the soapcalc numbers mean. Very useful stuff! 

Adding superfat at trace doesn't really make much difference. The lye attaches to whichever oils are there until the saponification process is complete. The only way to ensure that only the oil you choose stays as superfat is to hot process the soap, so that saponification is complete before you add the superfat oil. So it's easiest when doing cold process soaps to just add the superfat oil right in along with all the other oils at the beginning. When you use soapcalc and enter the superfat % you want, soapcalc discounts the lye amount, so that the right percentage of your chosen oils remains unsaponified. So  you don't have to figure what amount of oil to add extra. 

If I personally was using the oils you have, I would probably go ahead and find one additional oil, like palm or lard. You can get a mix of soy and palm in Crisco shortening, or you can get pure palm oil in Spectrum brand shortening. You can also usually find Castor oil, if you want that, in the pharmacy section by the laxatives. 

You can do a nice recipe with the ones you have, but it would be high in Olive Oil, which like mentioned will give it a longer cure time... 

If I only had those 3 oils to work with, I would do:
70% Olive 
20% Coconut
10% Shea
with a 7% superfat. 
I would also mix in 1Tbsp (per pound of oils [ppo] )of plain sugar in the water BEFORE adding the lye to the water. This will help with bubbles. (if you try to mix it in after your lye, it will just clump up in weird melted clumps)

If I had some palm oil, or lard also, I would do: 
40% Olive
20% Coconut
30% Lard or Palm
10% Shea Butter

And if I was able to also get Castor, I would try something like: 
40% Olive
15% Coconut
30% Lard or Palm
10% Shea Butter
5% Castor Oil.
(I've actually done this one -- very nice soap)


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## soap_rat (Feb 7, 2014)

grayceworks, that was such a terrific comprehensive answer!

Do you have a stick-blender?  That's going to be an important tool for easy trace and happiness.  If you don't, we have tips.  Where do you live, by the way?  (Since you have very particular oils easily available, I'm nosy!)

When you do move up to using milk, (I agree, wait until you're comfortable with water recipes) I recommend that you use small molds, or at least a narrow loaf mold.  If it's a wooden or thick silicone mold, depending on its size have it in the fridge or freezer before adding the soap to it.  Milk soaps tend to overheat because of all the sugar, and wood insulates.  Most people put their milk soaps in the freezer to prevent overheating, which also prevents gelling (usually) but some larger molds will still partial-gel, which makes a dark area in the center of the soap.


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## cmzaha (Feb 7, 2014)

lanafana said:


> I know superfatting is adding the oil at trace, but can I super fat with any oil? ie olive oil/coconut oil?


It really makes no difference, and the extra oil can be harder to mix in at trace. In soap calc adjust your superfat, 5 being the default. You really cannot control which oils will saponify and which will continue floating around in your soap


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## lanafana (Feb 7, 2014)

Seawolfe said:


> You can do your superfatting by just melting and mixing up all the oils before you mix in the lye and water - that's the easy way and works just fine. I've only added specific oils to super fat after HP. If your bound and determined to add a specific oil, I would make it the Shea 'cause it's so nice and fancy, but honestly, I would just keep it simple and mix all the oils together. Get a feel for what trace is like, decide is you want it to gel (insulate and keep it warm) or not. If you're using unrefined Shea, it adds a lovely yellow color to the soap..




Thanks! What is gelling? (Yes, I have no clue about this stuff). Does it change the texture of the soap? Do you mean insulate it after pouring it into the mold?


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## lanafana (Feb 7, 2014)

green soap said:


> in cold process soaps the superfat is the same proportion and composition of your soaping oils.  Soapcalc and other calculators just take the lye deficiency from the start, so you do not need to add the superfat at trace.  In hot process you can add your superfat after saponification is complete.  Most people choose a fancy oil good for your skin.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I am doing cold process soap and I am definitely going to check out your tutorial, that's just what I need! When I hear things like "lye defecency" I realize just how deficient I am and how much I don't know about this process!


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## lanafana (Feb 7, 2014)

Obsidian said:


> Yes, any oil works for superfatting. When you make CP, the lye will use which ever oils it wants, you won't be able to choose which remain after saponification. If you want a certain oil to remain, you will need to make HP.
> 
> What kind of skin do you have? If you have really dry skin, you will want a lower amount of coconut.




I do have dry skin. That's wired because I thought coconut would be good for that (don't ask me why). What oils should I increase in for dry skin??


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## lanafana (Feb 7, 2014)

Wow graycework!!! Thank you so much for all the useful tips and info. Lots of things to consider. I really wanted to eventually do a pure olive oil Castile soap, but now I don't know (omg one year to cure!!) my patience would really be tested with that one!

Thanks for the recipes, I am going to go look for castor oil this weekend. I see it in so many recipes, it must have good qualities. 

So if I add up all the oils to 100% minus the superfat and put it in soap calc and then add my superfat at the end...the calc will tell me the amount of lye needed adjusted according to the superfat added?


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## lanafana (Feb 7, 2014)

soap_rat said:


> grayceworks, that was such a terrific comprehensive answer!
> 
> Do you have a stick-blender?  That's going to be an important tool for easy trace and happiness.  If you don't, we have tips.  Where do you live, by the way?  (Since you have very particular oils easily available, I'm nosy!)
> 
> When you do move up to using milk, (I agree, wait until you're comfortable with water recipes) I recommend that you use small molds, or at least a narrow loaf mold.  If it's a wooden or thick silicone mold, depending on its size have it in the fridge or freezer before adding the soap to it.  Milk soaps tend to overheat because of all the sugar, and wood insulates.  Most people put their milk soaps in the freezer to prevent overheating, which also prevents gelling (usually) but some larger molds will still partial-gel, which makes a dark area in the center of the soap.




Wow, I had no idea milk could be so hard to work with! I really wanted to make milk soap because of my easy access and because of all the good things I hear about its properties and effects on skin. I'll have to tread carefully with that one. 

I ordered a stick blender and it should be here in a couple of days (can't wait). I also got a good scale and thermometer. I haven't purchased molds yet because I am completely confused as to which kind to get. I think if I order now I will end up with ten different molds, empty pockets, and no idea where to start!! 

I live in Maryland, but I have people that can get me coconut oil and Shea butter from Nigeria in bulk. So that's why I'd like to use it as the base in the soaps. Thanks so much! And please ask on, I need to be educated!


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## lanafana (Feb 7, 2014)

By the way, what is gelling?  Is it something you don't want to happen? If so how do I prevent it??


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## lanafana (Feb 7, 2014)

cmzaha said:


> It really makes no difference, and the extra oil can be harder to mix in at trace. In soap calc adjust your superfat, 5 being the default. You really cannot control which oils will saponify and which will continue floating around in your soap




Thanks, I didn't know that. I thought the superfatting was a sure thing. I didn't know it varied from HP to CP either.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 7, 2014)

Local stores will also have things that can be used.

As above, I would try to get another oil to add in, to lower the OO so that you don't have to wait so long to use the soap!

And in Cold Process, don't worry about adding superfat oils in at trace as it makes no difference.  Add it all at the start as the superfat will just be a % of all of the oils in the mix anyway - adding them at trace just adds a step to your process and is misleading for people who then read it and think that it changes anything.  You can only select which oil is the superfat if you do Hot Process.

So when using soap calc, just put in the amount of oils you want to use in total and then at the top right of the form is the setting for Superfat - this will change the amount of lye calculated so that a % of your oils has no lye to react with, so they stay as oils.

As for moulds, you can just use a basic silicone baking mould - personally I wouldn't then use it for food afterwards, only soap.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 7, 2014)

Gelling:

When the lye and oils combine (saponification) it causes heat. The heat can change the soap to being more translucent - particularly in the middle of the soap. 

Preventing it, or ensuring it happens to all of the soap rather than just a part of it (a partial gel, a gelled middle usually, which ungelled around it) is mainly cosmetic and nothing to worry too much about.


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## lanafana (Feb 7, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Local stores will also have things that can be used.
> 
> As above, I would try to get another oil to add in, to lower the OO so that you don't have to wait so long to use the soap!
> 
> ...




Thanks so much for the pointers. Things are starting to become a bit clearer for me now! I get the superfatting, still don't know what gelling is though. I'm going to look it up online. 

I'm going to look for castor oil today. What other oils can I find locally at the store that are good for soap making. I'm going to look for a silicone loaf mold as well. Also, when we slaughter goats/sheep I usually render my own tallow from the fat...can I use this??


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## lanafana (Feb 7, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Gelling:
> 
> When the lye and oils combine (saponification) it causes heat. The heat can change the soap to being more translucent - particularly in the middle of the soap.
> 
> Preventing it, or ensuring it happens to all of the soap rather than just a part of it (a partial gel, a gelled middle usually, which ungelled around it) is mainly cosmetic and nothing to worry too much about.




Thanks again! Hadn't read this when I posted the last comment. How do you control the gelling process if you wanted to? 

And, I see people refrigerating their poured soaps, using plastic wrap, insulating it in the oven, putting in freezer, is all of this necessary and why? What about if your soap is taller than the mold (on purpose) then what would you do? And is praying with alcohol necessary to prevent ash or are there other ways to prevent it (I really do to want to use alcohol). OMG, I know everyone is tired of me by now with all the questions!!!!! You all have no idea how much it's helped me though! Many thanks...


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 7, 2014)

Get tired of talking about soap? Oh, dear girl, you really don't know us at all! 

Rendered tallow? Oh YES you can use it! Maybe 20% CO, 40% OO, 35% tallow and 5% Shea? Things like Crisco, sunflower oil and so on can all be used for soaping.  Or maybe even 15% CO and 10% shea if you prefer?

Out of interest, how can you pour your soap higher than the mould? Can you picture pouring soup higher than the soup bowl?

As for controlling gel by preventing it, you can put the mould in the freezer just after you pour the soap (do it before you make soap if you really want to be safe), then after 12 or 24 hours move it to the fridge and then a cold place and keep an eye on when it is good to be cut. There are people on this forum much better at I am for preventing gel.

To control gel by making sure you get a full gel, you can put your oven on to a low setting as you soap and then, when ready, turn the oven off and put the mould inside (make sure the mould is oven safe!) but keep an eye on it. It can overheat, so it's not an idiot-proof method (I won't try it!  ) or you can put it on a heat pad or wrap it in towels and put it some place toasty. It's of course possible to get a partial gel even with this - the key is PRACTICE and learn what you need to do with your recipe, moulds, house and so on. Alas no one answer will fit all cases with this 

As for ash, you can put Seran wrap over the soap when poured, but then you can't do fancy tops (if you're in to that). Ash is just cosmetic, will go after a use or two in the shower and is really nothing to worry too much about for now


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## lanafana (Feb 7, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Get tired of talking about soap? Oh, dear girl, you really don't know us at all!
> 
> Rendered tallow? Oh YES you can use it! Maybe 20% CO, 40% OO, 35% tallow and 5% Shea? Things like Crisco, sunflower oil and so on can all be used for soaping.  Or maybe even 15% CO and 10% shea if you prefer?
> 
> ...




Lololol . I'm sure the noob questions can be quite annoying at times. But I haven't even made my first batch yet and I can't stop talking about soap (my husband has got to be insane by now) So yes, I can see how that could happen! 

With regards to pouring above the mold I meant decorative tops or tops that kind of peak towards the center. Stuff I probably won't try til much later though. I just think is looks nice and would hate to have it touched by Saran Wrap!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 7, 2014)

You can steam ash off using all sorts of things, just be careful while doing it.  I would suggest googling "steaming hot ash" but it might think you meant something else...........


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## shunt2011 (Feb 7, 2014)

You can make a nice soap with the ingredients you have.  Personally use coconut up to 25% with no issues and I too have sensitive skin.  I superfat between 8-10 percent.   You could do 70% Olive oil, 20% Coconut and 10% Shea. Minimum of 5% superfat.  You can get Castor Oil at Walmart or at some pharmacies.  If you added that I would just subtract 5% from your Olive and add 5% Castor.   You'll have to let us know how your soap turns out.  Welcome to the addiction


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## Seawolfe (Feb 7, 2014)

You can make the top piled high and fluffy just as if it were cream cheese - you fluff it up with your spoon or spatula! But you cant do it with soap that was at a light trace - has to be at heavy trace, or after HP. And you can fluff soap that is below the top of the mold as well - you'll see. Honestly, for my first batch I did not care nor know about gelling - just dont worry about it for now - I should not have even mentioned it because its so not a big deal. Besides, I still have the newbie perspective that partial gelling and ash are free decorations for your soap, and proof of its awesome handmadeness.


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## Sherry1956 (Feb 7, 2014)

Hi Ianafana
I found the most wonderful thing  at Miller Soap dot com.  A list of all the soaps with their properties.  I use it all the time I formulate a new batch of soap.


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## lanafana (Feb 7, 2014)

shunt2011 said:


> You can make a nice soap with the ingredients you have.  Personally use coconut up to 25% with no issues and I too have sensitive skin.  I superfat between 8-10 percent.   You could do 70% Olive oil, 20% Coconut and 10% Shea. Minimum of 5% superfat.  You can get Castor Oil at Walmart or at some pharmacies.  If you added that I would just subtract 5% from your Olive and add 5% Castor.   You'll have to let us know how your soap turns out.  Welcome to the addiction




Thank you for the warm welcome, and although I haven't even gotten my feet wet, I can feel the addiction forming! I hope my first attempts go well and I am not completely discouraged. Right now I am so excited in afraid there's nowhere to go but down!

 I am going to try out that recipe and see how it turns out and I will definitely share the results.


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## lanafana (Feb 7, 2014)

Seawolfe said:


> You can make the top piled high and fluffy just as if it were cream cheese - you fluff it up with your spoon or spatula! But you cant do it with soap that was at a light trace - has to be at heavy trace, or after HP. And you can fluff soap that is below the top of the mold as well - you'll see. Honestly, for my first batch I did not care nor know about gelling - just dont worry about it for now - I should not have even mentioned it because its so not a big deal. Besides, I still have the newbie perspective that partial gelling and ash are free decorations for your soap, and proof of its awesome handmadeness.




Thanks for the encouragement! Hearing all these new terms scares me sometimes so thank you all for helping me put things in perspective. I think the hardest part is going to be just getting it done, making that first move. This is kind of how I felt when I first started baking bread (so scared of using yeast and failing at it) but after my first loaves I couldn't stop! I hope soaping has the same effect! It's got so much room for creativity, I can't wait to get started!!


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## lanafana (Feb 7, 2014)

Sherry1956 said:


> Hi Ianafana
> I found the most wonderful thing  at Miller Soap dot com.  A list of all the soaps with their properties.  I use it all the time I formulate a new batch of soap.




Wow, that site is a great resource. Just what I need right now. Thanks for the link.


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## lanafana (Feb 7, 2014)

One more question (for now ). The soap calc has three different types of coconut oil listed. What do they mean and what if I don't know what type I have...will it make a big difference??


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## grayceworks (Feb 7, 2014)

If you're not sure, just go with 76 degree. That's what most CO is,unless you specifically bought the other kinds. Fractionated is specialty CO that won't turn solid so is used as a carrier oil in stuff, and 92 degree has a higher melt-point good for body butters


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## lanafana (Feb 7, 2014)

grayceworks said:


> If you're not sure, just go with 76 degree. That's what most CO is,unless you specifically bought the other kinds. Fractionated is specialty CO that won't turn solid so is used as a carrier oil in stuff, and 92 degree has a higher melt-point good for body butters




Thank you grayceworks!


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## lanafana (Feb 7, 2014)

If I use 50% OO (more or less) in a recipe will it take a long time to cure? Or is this only true for the Castile soap.


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## Sherry1956 (Feb 9, 2014)

lanafana said:


> One more question (for now ). The soap calc has three different types of coconut oil listed. What do they mean and what if I don't know what type I have...will it make a big difference??



If you buy your coconut oil in the grocery store, it is a 76 degree melting point.


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## lanafana (Feb 10, 2014)

Sherry1956 said:


> If you buy your coconut oil in the grocery store, it is a 76 degree melting point.




Thanks, I did buy some online for my first batches but I usually get it from overseas (no real labeling, etc) so that's why I was worried. It's bought in the market or privately in bulk so I don't have a way of knowing. But it seems to have a very low melting point so I'll go with the 76. Thanks!


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## soap_rat (Feb 10, 2014)

I use an ice cream scoop on my 76 deg melting point coconut oil, and unless the kitchen is chilly, it scoops pretty easily.  I imagine the higher-temp coconut oil is going to feel rock-solid at a typical room temperature.

The lye saponifies the oils no matter what temp the soap is at--even when frozen solid.  (I just put a milk soap out in 10-20 degree weather for 3 days.  I brought it in, and no lye zap).  But the reaction of lye and oils creates heat, and if the heat doesn't dissipate fast (heat dissipates because there's no lid, or a fan is blowing on the soap, or it's a shallow mold sitting on a cold counter, or tiny molds, or it's in the fridge, or freezer, or outside in the winter...), the batter turns translucent (like a gel) once it's above a certain temperature.  Again, if the heat isn't dissipating much, that gel temperature and look will spread all through the mold of soap.  If the heat is dissipating some, then only the center area of the mold gets that hot.  Once the soap cools back off it doesn't look like gel anymore, but the area that gelled is darker.  Some people don't like the look of partial gel.  Some people prefer the feel of ungelled soap, some prefer gelled soap.  

I think the important part of this for you is that soaps in gel phase can also overheat, especially if they contain sugary ingredients--like MILK.  They can develop a big crack in the top, and even ooze up and overflow the mold!  (Overflowing is  mostly in a column mold or big loaf).  Overheating can also cause separation, meaning a layer of oil on top of a layer of soap with more lye in it than it should have.  Or you may get caverns in the soap with lye and oil in them.

So, since you will be wanting to use your lovely goatmilk in your soaps as soon as you feel up to it, learning about temperature control of the soap in the molds will be important for you.  Starting out you can just use cardboard boxes or plastic bins lined with FREEZER paper as your molds, (or unlined pringles cans--they do not have aluminum lining as some people think) you don't have to buy anything special.  

You seem to have a good connection for those supplies for your soap.  A good bulk supplier of soap ingredients is Soaper's Choice in Illinois.  If you decide you want other ingredients than you're already set up to get, (perhaps Castor, it is a nice addition to soap) you could buy from there in bulk.


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## lanafana (Feb 10, 2014)

soap_rat said:


> I use an ice cream scoop on my 76 deg melting point coconut oil, and unless the kitchen is chilly, it scoops pretty easily.  I imagine the higher-temp coconut oil is going to feel rock-solid at a typical room temperature.
> 
> The lye saponifies the oils no matter what temp the soap is at--even when frozen solid.  (I just put a milk soap out in 10-20 degree weather for 3 days.  I brought it in, and no lye zap).  But the reaction of lye and oils creates heat, and if the heat doesn't dissipate fast (heat dissipates because there's no lid, or a fan is blowing on the soap, or it's a shallow mold sitting on a cold counter, or tiny molds, or it's in the fridge, or freezer, or outside in the winter...), the batter turns translucent (like a gel) once it's above a certain temperature.  Again, if the heat isn't dissipating much, that gel temperature and look will spread all through the mold of soap.  If the heat is dissipating some, then only the center area of the mold gets that hot.  Once the soap cools back off it doesn't look like gel anymore, but the area that gelled is darker.  Some people don't like the look of partial gel.  Some people prefer the feel of ungelled soap, some prefer gelled soap.
> 
> ...




Thank you so much for taking the time to respond in such detail, I appreciate it! Right now I've decided to use a recipe already formulated by someone else so I don't mess up too much. The recipe has OO, CO, Shea butter, almond oil and castor oil. Does this sound like a good combo??  There are so many recipes out there, so I just chose one. I bought a small "crafters choice" silicone loaf mold so I can make a small first batch. I read good reviews, and it was really cheap compared to other molds. 

I have been doing just what you suggested about trying to understand the temps when working with goat milk. The most important things I've gotten so far are: freeze the milk and put bowl in ice bath when SLOWLY adding the lye and making sure it stays at a pretty low temp. Also, possible putting in the fridge after pouring or at least in a really cool place. Any more pointers you'd like to give id glady take.


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## JusDin (Feb 10, 2014)

Hi lanafana, and welcome!

You've really gotten some great advice here, enjoyed reading it over to affirm what I've only recently learned as I'm a newbie too.  This is such a great group of people!

I *guess* I would agree with the "start with water first before you try milk" but I have to admit that (not knowing any better at the time) I used goat milk in my very first soap. I have dairy goats too and it just seemed like the thing to do. It turned out beautifully!  In fact, it was all snatched up by family and friends very quickly after cure.  I've made 8 batches since I got started in this addiction in November, all goat milk. Hope I don't run out of goat milk that I froze in the fall before new kids arrive in the spring!  roblem:  It sounds like you've got the procedure down for milk....I used frozen solid milk to which I started sprinkling the lye on a little at a time, going very very slowly as it melted so as not to raise the temperature too fast.  I kept my lye pitcher in an ice water bath as I added and stirred and kept an eye out so that the temperature never exceeded 90.  I added my 90 degree oil to 90 degree milk.

As for gel, I attempt to keep mine from gelling just because I feel like that's best for a milk soap.  I put it outside in the cold for several hours after pouring.  Even though I use a divided slab mold--which I think is better if you're trying to avoid gel--I still haven't escaped it completely.  But it seems that the gelled part is only the very center of each bar, so it is only noticeable after the soap is halfway used up.

Good luck in your soapmaking and let us know how it turns out.  And by the way, I'm a fellow Marylander!


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## lanafana (Feb 10, 2014)

JusDin said:


> Hi lanafana, and welcome!
> 
> You've really gotten some great advice here, enjoyed reading it over to affirm what I've only recently learned as I'm a newbie too.  This is such a great group of people!
> 
> ...




Hey there fellow Marylander! I feel like I must use milk in my first recipe. Yes, I know it's risky, but I am so eager to do it that I don't think I'll have enough patience to wait it out!! It will either be a complete disaster, a great success or somewhere in between....but.... I a ready to accept the consequences (or at least I think I am. I am going to try my first batch this weekend and I will let everyone know how it goes. I do agree that the people here are absolutely wonderful and I am so encouraged and excited!! I'm especially encouraged by ur success story, there is hope for me after all! Should I set my soap outside or put in the frig is one better than the other? I am just waiting on my molds to arrive and thermometer, can't wait to take the leap into the soapmaking world! Thank you for sharing ur experience. I need to get more goats!!!!!


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## Lin (Feb 10, 2014)

I stuck my goats milk soap in the freezer immediately after pouring. After 24 hours I removed it from the freezer, and let it come to room temperature before unmolding and then cutting.


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## lanafana (Feb 13, 2014)

I'd just like to thank all you kind people for your tips, advice, cautions  and sharing your experiences! I just put my first batch of CP soap in the fridge and will upload some pics when I unmold (how can I wait 24-48 hrs!!!!!??). I hope it turns out okay. And if not I'll be back on the forum with many more questions . Thanks again!


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## lanafana (Feb 14, 2014)

First batch pics as promised!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 14, 2014)

An amazing first batch!  An amazing 10th batch, come to think of it


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## lanafana (Feb 14, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> An amazing first batch!  An amazing 10th batch, come to think of it




Thanks so much!! Your advice helped A LOT and made me more comfortable in taking the big leap. I'm hoping I'll get better with time, but at least it wasn't a disaster! I can't wait to do it again.


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## JusDin (Feb 16, 2014)

That looks wonderful! :-D I'm excited for you!  Did you end up freezing it?  The last couple of times I put it outside (in the freezing temps--but protected from the snow!) for several hours.  I think next time I'm gonna do like Lin and leave it out in the cold for a full 24 hours.  Also thinking of changing my recipe a bit, it stays too soft to remove from the mold for DAYS, it's just too long to wait and then it still doesn't come out as smooth as I'd like.  How was the hardness of your recipe?


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## lanafana (Feb 16, 2014)

JusDin said:


> That looks wonderful! :-D I'm excited for you!  Did you end up freezing it?  The last couple of times I put it outside (in the freezing temps--but protected from the snow!) for several hours.  I think next time I'm gonna do like Lin and leave it out in the cold for a full 24 hours.  Also thinking of changing my recipe a bit, it stays too soft to remove from the mold for DAYS, it's just too long to wait and then it still doesn't come out as smooth as I'd like.  How was the hardness of your recipe?




Thanks! I am super excited as well. I know if my first batch came out horrible I would have been a bit discouraged. Unfortunately my mind works like that...I'm usually overly excited and obsessed with doing something and the next moment (depending how that "something" worked out), completely uninterested! 

I didn't put mine in the freezer or outside. I was worried about it being too cold. I'm not sure why. But I knew I didn't want to take the risk of leaving it on the counter. So I chose what seemed to be in between those two options and stuck it in the fridge. I was surprised at how cool the milk stayed when adding it to the lye ( my first time actually dealing with the stuff) I actually heated it up a bit before mixing it with the oils. 

I unmolded before 24 hours had passed (Yes, a bit anxious and impatient!) so it was a tad bit soft. But it came out incredibly easy (another thing I was worried about). I love the silicone mold (I say this never having tried anything else though  ). It sliced great. I used a cheap bright yellow bevel that I had from Home Depot I got with a saw I used years ago to build my first chicken coop and a dollar store SS knife...it worked great (although I still have my heart set on one of those fancy guitar string thingies...too awesome!) I check on the bars everyday as if they're my kids, and they are hardening up great and seem okay. If the bars feel good I am definitely using this recipe again because it was easy and I like the way they turned out. Does the color change during the curing process with milk soap? Just wondering, I'd love for it to stay that creamy white color throughout. Thanks for the encouragement. I've already made my second batch of soap...Castile with goat milk. Yes, I'm crazy and I have no idea how this one will turn out. If it's not still soup by tomorrow or the day after I'll try unmolding it and cutting and will post pics.


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## JusDin (Feb 16, 2014)

lanafana said:


> Unfortunately my mind works like that...I'm usually overly excited and obsessed with doing something and the next moment (depending how that "something" worked out), completely uninterested!



Ha!  You sound just like me lol!

As for the color, mine have stayed the same creamy ivory/sort of off-white color as when I poured them.  BUT...that ivory color was giving me fits when I tried to color a batch a very light lavender the other day.  It kept wanting to be a putrid gray!  Finally got it figured out but ended up with a much darker purple than I wanted.


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## lanafana (Feb 17, 2014)

JusDin said:


> Ha!  You sound just like me lol!
> 
> 
> 
> As for the color, mine have stayed the same creamy ivory/sort of off-white color as when I poured them.  BUT...that ivory color was giving me fits when I tried to color a batch a very light lavender the other day.  It kept wanting to be a putrid gray!  Finally got it figured out but ended up with a much darker purple than I wanted.




 Awwww! Purple is my absolute favorite color! I had lots of plans for purple soap. I hope I can figure it out. What did you use to color the soap?


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## judymoody (Feb 17, 2014)

So pretty and creamy looking!  Congrats!


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## lanafana (Feb 17, 2014)

judymoody said:


> So pretty and creamy looking!  Congrats!




Thanks!


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## grayceworks (Feb 17, 2014)

Turned out great! Good job!


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## lanafana (Feb 17, 2014)

grayceworks said:


> Turned out great! Good job!




Thanks so much! I am thrilled people who actually make soap think it turned out okay. My family would think it great even if it was a complete  mess, lol!


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## lanafana (Feb 17, 2014)

Question... The Castile soap is taking a long time (I'm impatient) to harden. I made it on sat. and really want to unmold it. It is getting harder but not yet hard enough to unmold. Is it possible to put it in the freezer or outside overnight and unmold it when it hardens and then cut and put back in a cold place. Obviously I could wait a few more days and see, but....I've already messed with it a bit (probably messed it up some) and I am really having a hard time being patient! Just want to know if it's possible. Thanks.


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## grayceworks (Feb 17, 2014)

Castile is the ultimate lesson in soaping patience. Unless you reduced the amount of water used in the recipe, it may take some time to unmold, and more time yet to cut. But the longest part is the verrrryyyy long cure time.  It is lovely soap, but it's best after several months, and even better after a full year! 

Just give it time to be firm enough to unmold and cut without smushing the edges and making big thumbprints in it lol --- ask me how I know this...


Edited to admit... I lasted a whole.... week. Before I had to try it. I have no patience.

 I made myself a HP batch of it, which has a totally different feel to the bar... has a creamy slippery lather but also bubbly, and the bar does not feel as rock-hard as my now-dry CP Castile bars do.

 And the CP ones are just over 4wks old now, and they're just... slippery gooey lather, no bubbles yet. Nice on the skin already, but... I see why they say wait a year LOL It is a weird sort of lather at this stage of curing.


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## lanafana (Feb 17, 2014)

grayceworks said:


> Castile is the ultimate lesson in soaping patience. Unless you reduced the amount of water used in the recipe, it may take some time to unmold, and more time yet to cut. But the longest part is the verrrryyyy long cure time.  It is lovely soap, but it's best after several months, and even better after a full year!
> 
> Just give it time to be firm enough to unmold and cut without smushing the edges and making big thumbprints in it lol --- ask me how I know this...
> 
> ...




OMG, I'm going to go crazy! I knew about the incredibly long cure time but not the unmolding. This is the part I'm having trouble with. I don't mind waiting to use the soap, but I tried a couple of things with the pouring and reeeaaaaly want to see how it turned out. The only reason I did Castile is because it was the only oil I had in abundance for now. If only I'd known . I guess the waiting game begins. I'll let you know who won...me or the soap!


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## FlybyStardancer (Feb 17, 2014)

I feel your pain, lanafana! I did a OO/Soybean/CO/Castor recipe I made still isn't ready to unmold, even after a week! I want to know how the swirls came out!


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## lanafana (Feb 17, 2014)

FlybyStardancer said:


> I feel your pain, lanafana! I did a OO/Soybean/CO/Castor recipe I made still isn't ready to unmold, even after a week! I want to know how the swirls came out!




THANK YOU...EXACTLY!!!! I tried to take a peek thinking it was hard enough and completely ruined one side. If I had loads of batches hanging out somewhere I don't think I'd be bothered. But these are my first, so I really want to check them out like....NOW! And I thought I was a relatively patient person....is it the soap. Lol.


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## FlybyStardancer (Feb 17, 2014)

lol Well, this is my second batch of bar soap... First batch was 100% coconut oil, so it hardened up very quickly and was at the perfect consistency for cutting something like 12 hours later.

You'd think I'd have patience. I bake bread, and knit... But nope! No patience here! lol

But I'm definitely going to remember to discount water or add sodium lactate to future soft batches. Maybe figure out some way to encourage gelling... (My first batch didn't gel, and I'm fairly certain this didn't either.)


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## JusDin (Feb 17, 2014)

lanafana said:


> Awwww! Purple is my absolute favorite color! I had lots of plans for purple soap. I hope I can figure it out. What did you use to color the soap?



I used lavender ultramarine powder.  It is pretty, but I was trying to make a very light lavender with a darker purple swirl.  But by the time I got enough color in to overcome the gray it was much darker than I wanted and had moved really fast, so...no swirl.  :-|  I was bummed.  Scented it with lavender eo.  Smells lovely though!


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## lanafana (Feb 18, 2014)

FlybyStardancer said:


> lol Well, this is my second batch of bar soap... First batch was 100% coconut oil, so it hardened up very quickly and was at the perfect consistency for cutting something like 12 hours later.
> 
> You'd think I'd have patience. I bake bread, and knit... But nope! No patience here! lol
> 
> But I'm definitely going to remember to discount water or add sodium lactate to future soft batches. Maybe figure out some way to encourage gelling... (My first batch didn't gel, and I'm fairly certain this didn't either.)



Lol, I crochet and bake bread as well. I also have six kids I homeschool with number seven on the way. So yeah, patience galore right? I guess the soap has made me into a monster on several fronts! 

I still don't make my own recipes so the discounting water thing kinda scares me. I'm too new at this to this to try anything out if the ordinary. I need to figure it out though because it sounds like it will be useful in the future (that's if I ever attemp Castile again!!). 

And with the gelling. How do you know if it had gelled or not? Is is translucent like throughout the bar?


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## lanafana (Feb 18, 2014)

JusDin said:


> I used lavender ultramarine powder.  It is pretty, but I was trying to make a very light lavender with a darker purple swirl.  But by the time I got enough color in to overcome the gray it was much darker than I wanted and had moved really fast, so...no swirl.  :-|  I was bummed.  Scented it with lavender eo.  Smells lovely though!



Oh bummer, at least it came out okay and smelled great. This is what I wanted to do as well with same scent. But maybe layered shades of purple and I wanted to see what color I would get with alkanet root.


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## FlybyStardancer (Feb 18, 2014)

lanafana said:


> I still don't make my own recipes so the discounting water thing kinda scares me. I'm too new at this to this to try anything out if the ordinary. I need to figure it out though because it sounds like it will be useful in the future (that's if I ever attemp Castile again!!).
> 
> And with the gelling. How do you know if it had gelled or not? Is is translucent like throughout the bar?



In theory, discounting shouldn't be that hard. Just run it through a calculator and follow the new water amount. 

Yeah, it becomes warmer, and it looks more translucent.
Here's a video where Cathy of Soaping101 shows soap in a slab mold going through gel. You can see in the upper right corner where it hasn't started to gel yet.

[ame]http://youtu.be/JQyI2PF95Go?t=7m30s[/ame]


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## lanafana (Feb 18, 2014)

Thanks for the link, enjoyed the video! In theory I do get the water discount, but am still a bit afraid, in awe I should say, of lye lol. After I've made a few more batches I think If try. I haven't even used lye calc as of yet...afraid of that too! I feel like there is something I'm bound to do to mess it up. I'll get there one day...hopefully sooner than later. For now I'll stick with the books lol.


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## lanafana (Feb 18, 2014)

Here's batch #2. A tiny one lb batch. Just experimenting right now. And yea, it was too soft to take out of the mold properly but, yea I did it anyway!


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## lanafana (Feb 18, 2014)

On the soap calc how do I determine batch size?? Or do I need pro to do that?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 18, 2014)

Do you mean, how much oil for your mould?

That is the hole in your mould size as Inches Height x Width x Length x 0.4 = oils in ounces

hole in your mould size as CMs Height x Width x Length x 07 = oils in grams

eta - I say the hole in the mould, as the height and so on can be different on the outside of the mould!  It is the space that the soap goes in to, not the actual size of the mould, if that make sense.


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## lanafana (Feb 18, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Do you mean, how much oil for your mould?
> 
> That is the hole in your mould size as Inches Height x Width x Length x 0.4 = oils in ounces
> 
> ...




When I put my percentages of oils in lye calc and it gives me a recipe, what size batch is that recipe for?? I know I am really exposing my stupidity right now, lol! Is it a 1, 2, lb batch? I'm confused


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## FlybyStardancer (Feb 18, 2014)

lanafana said:


> When I put my percentages of oils in lye calc and it gives me a recipe, what size batch is that recipe for?? I know I am really exposing my stupidity right now, lol! Is it a 1, 2, lb batch? I'm confused


Which lye calculator are you using? Brambleberry's? SoapCalc? SBM?


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## lanafana (Feb 18, 2014)

FlybyStardancer said:


> Which lye calculator are you using? Brambleberry's? SoapCalc? SBM?




I am using the soap calc pro app on my phone. Should I only use the website? I see the calculation, but don't see where it says what size batch it would be. Do I just add up the oils in oz and figure it out myself?


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## new12soap (Feb 18, 2014)

There should be a place at the top, I think the default is usually 1 lb.

It should also show the total oil amount at the bottom under the oils listed.


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## lanafana (Feb 18, 2014)

new12soap said:


> There should be a place at the top, I think the default is usually 1 lb.
> 
> It should also show the total oil amount at the bottom under the oils listed.




Thanks!


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## kmarvel (Jul 18, 2014)

Mountain soaps, I have never had any problems using OO in my soap and pouring into my wooden molds and insulating them with towels.  I am curious to know what problems (if any) that you had??

 Kathie


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## xxlasxx (Jul 20, 2014)

Hi all!   I have seen YT videos where the soapmaker added her milk once emulsion had occured. Instead of full milk for your first attempts, maybe use
1/2 water 1/2 milk.. add the lye to the water, and add the goat milk to the
emulsified batter.   I'm going to try this myself as I'm not quite ready to do a full milk soap yet.   Can some of the veteran soapers weigh in on the use of 1/2 milk 1/2 water as stated above?   Thanks!    Lisa


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## seven (Jul 20, 2014)

^^^
there are already many threads about the 50-50 method, but generally it is the easiest to do, esp. for beginners. this is my preferred method because i hate freezing milk and adding the lye bit by bit thing.

are you planning on using fresh or powdered milk? if using the powder variety, you can make a high concentration, at the end it'll be just the same as using a full liquid swap.
i personally see no big deal doing full liquid swap vs 50-50. some say doing 50-50 = not a real milk soap, but i disagree.


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## Susie (Jul 22, 2014)

If you use canned(evaporated) milk, then using equal parts of milk and water makes regular milk.  So, you just use the water part to dissolve the lye, then add the evaporated milk to the emulsified oil/lye mixture.  Full milk soap made.


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## Dana89 (Feb 7, 2015)

@ Seven-Why do some think it is not a real milk soap if it is added at emulsion? That is how I made the 1 GM soap I have done. I am about to make a omh soap and plan on doing it the same way, to me it really is easier.
@Lanafana- congrats! Your soap looks great. I did notice that you wrote you added milk to the lye (on page 6) I would quote you but I am computer challenged. Anyway I have always been told to add the lye to the liquid and that it could be dangerous the other way around. This may be different with frozen liquid, so for the more experinced soapers feel free to correct me if I am wrong.


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