# Baby soap takes too much time to set.



## pcs (Nov 9, 2016)

Hello all,

I am a beginner and this cp baby soap is my second attempt. I did it for my baby who is due in January 2017  But it seems I went wrong in my calculations may be, my soap is not setting:think:. I used the following links as guidelines for my project :

http://www.soap-making-resource.com/baby-soap-recipe.html
http://www.mommypotamus.com/diy-bar-soap-gentle-enough-for-babies/

However I didnt follow them exactly, but used http://soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp to calculate the weight of ingradients, which was as follows:

water:171gm
lye: 58gm
Olive oil: 405gm(90%)
Coconut oil 76deg : 45gm(10%)

Screenshot of my recipe from soapcalc is attached.

I did the usual procedure for making soap which is, add lye to water, cool to 130 Deg, warm oil mixture to 120 Deg, mix them and blend to trace, and pour into mold, wrap in towel and keep away to set. But I noticed that even after three days the mixture was still not cured.

Could someone point out what is going wrong? I really want this to be ready by January!

Thanks.
pcs.


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## BattleGnome (Nov 9, 2016)

I think cured is the wrong word. saponified is probably the right term. With olive oil at that high of a percentage it would probably be better for your soap to cure 6 months (though will be useable for an adult, I'm not sure about for a baby since I have no kids of my own). 

My guess is that you reached a false trace. Do you use a stick blender or do you mix by hand? The last time I made a soap with a high % of olive I used my stick blender off and on for 10 minutes to make sure I was at trace. 

I'm sure someone with more experience will chime in with advice but I think you might need to emergency hot process to ensure you reached trace then remold and cut.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 9, 2016)

That soap will need a holy long cure, which is fine as soap is not great for babies, certainly not very small ones. 

I use soap on my 16 month old in the same way that I use Terpentine soap on me - sparingly and only when it is required! A normal bath (twice weekly is fine) with a little bit of oil in the water is all that is needed, unless the baby had gotten in to some right mess - in the same way that normal soap is fine for me unless I have something particularly tough to clean off, in which case I need something stronger. 

Regardless of what those blogs say, by the way - soap is not a regular requirement for a baby. Period, full stop, end of.


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## shunt2011 (Nov 9, 2016)

I agree with the above.  Soap should not be used on babies.  They don't get that dirty.  Your recipe is going to need 6 month minimum cure.  High olive required a good long cure to make a usable soap in my opinion and many others.  

Did your soap go through gel?  If not it will stay soft for quite some time.   I would just leave it until it's firm enough to remove and cut.


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## pcs (Nov 9, 2016)

Thanks for all the replies.

The mixture was blended using an electrical stick blender for a good 10 minutes and I m sure trace wasnt false.

So I guess I added too much olive oil to my recipe. Also from the replies I have to assume that soapcalc is not completely reliable. (or atleast it wont give any info about the time taken for curing completely.) Different opinions on the superfat in my combo also is confusing for me. How is it actually calculated? (I am right now nervous about my first project also, which is curing now, may be I ll post it as a different thread!)

I dont intent to use soap on my baby frequently, its meant for may be couple of times per week that too only for areas that might get dirty eg: neck folds, genital area etc. I dont want to rely on commercial soaps/baby products after the news about many of them containing harmful chemicals. I just thought knowing how to make a gentle soap might be a handy skill as a mom.  Thanks for all the well meaning comments.

So if I were to repeat this project to make a gentle baby soap, how should I go about it?

Cheers!


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## DeeAnna (Nov 9, 2016)

You didn't add too much olive oil if that's the specific soap you wanted to make. It's fine, except you may not have realized what kind of soap you were making. 

"...soapcalc is not completely reliable..."

Soapcalc is a decent soap recipe calculator. If "not reliable" means you aren't interpreting the "bubbly, creamy, etc." numbers or the fatty acid profile correctly, that means you may not fully understand this information, including its limitations. It's not that the information is incorrect or not useful.

***

So back to your soap problem -- In my opinion, the likely reason why your soap is staying soft is because your lye concentration is 25%. That means your recipe has a lot of water in it. An olive oil soap needs less water, not more, and that problem comes from using the beginner's default of "38% water as % of oils" per your screenshot. 

That 38% water as % of oils works okay as long as the recipe uses a balanced, typical blend of fats. A 90% olive oil recipe is not a typical balanced blend of fats, so the water content when using "water as % of oils" becomes unbalanced as well. 

The solution -- Forget about "water as % of oils" and use "lye concentration" or "water:lye ratio" instead. For a recipe with high olive oil or other oleic fat (avocado, high oleic sunflower, etc), I would set lye concentration to 35% or 40%. Less water means the soap will saponify faster, come to trace easier, and set up firmer.

For an introduction to using lye concentration or water:lye ratio rather than "water as % of oils", please see this thread:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=54095

...and read the full explanation of why you want to do this here:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=53642

***

False trace only happens to recipes with a high percentage of fats that are solid at room temperature -- typically recipes with high lard, tallow, palm, or butters. The OPs recipe can't show false trace.


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## dixiedragon (Nov 9, 2016)

Totally normal for soap like that to take a long time to firm up! What kind of mold is it in? If it will hold up to oven temps, pre-heat your oven to 150ish (whatever your lowest temp is), turn the oven off, and put the soap in. That will help speed things up a bit and firm up your soap.

I like to cover a cookie sheet with paper towels and put my mold on that.


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## Steve85569 (Nov 9, 2016)

"So if I were to repeat this project to make a gentle baby soap, how should I go about it?

Cheers!"

For a mild soap I personally start with lard. Lots of lard.
60-80% lard
8-12% coconut
5% castor
Maybe some olive or rice bran oil if I'm in the mood.
Run all of the ingredients through a good lye calculator. Watch the longevity and hardness values as you blend.

I normally use a 2:1 water:lye ratio sometimes I drop down to 1.5:1.
For a comparison it sounds like you were at 3:1 with a very high olive oil content. That's a lot of water to need to evaporate out.
The soap you made will harden over time. Lots of time. It *may* be "slimey" when you use it too. It will be a gentle cleansing soap though.

Just my thoughts and what I do. Many people do not like to use animal fats so please do not be offended if you are one.

Steve


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## Dahila (Nov 9, 2016)

Make it a toddler soap no baby,  babies have some difficulties to handle high ph of soaps.  Toddlers it a different story 
I would use very mild surfacant soap for babies, using just a bit, they can be washed very well just with water with added colloidal oats to it


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## Obsidian (Nov 9, 2016)

I would go with a 100% lard soap. It will be super gentle, lather better then your high olive oil soap and cures so much faster then a high olive. One word of caution with lard, don't get it too hot or it can smell piggy. It only needs to be warm enough thats it's completely melted and clear.
It can take quite a long time to trace too so be patient and don't burn up your blender trying to get trace faster.


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## Dahila (Nov 9, 2016)

Obsidian but it is still high ph ,  and babies do not handle it well.


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## Arimara (Nov 10, 2016)

Surfactants are not all inherently evil. Looking into them would be a good idea. There are also soaps called Syndet Bars (sp) I believe but I know little of them.


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## Dahila (Nov 10, 2016)

Arimara Susan have a lot of option on her blog for syndet bar , some of them so simple it takes 10 minutes to make and few ingredients.  I am using syndet bar shampoo of years,  I tried soap but it had damaged my hair so much.   Took a year of cutting very short........ Now my hair is shiny and soft 
My man uses the soap but he cuts his hair every three weeks


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## Obsidian (Nov 10, 2016)

Dahila said:


> Obsidian but it is still high ph ,  and babies do not handle it well.



Humans have been using lye soap on babies for generations with no ill affects. As long as it a gentle soap, I see no reason not to use it but I'm not here to debate soap vs no soap, just simply giving a opinion on a gentle soap that is better then castile.

Syndet bars are just bars made with synthetic detergents instead of saponified oils/fat. They really aren't much different then buying commercial bath bars except you can control the kind of detergents used.


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## Dahila (Nov 10, 2016)

We used paraffin which is derived from mineral oil on babies and they survived, but so many skin cancers can not be blamed on Sun only.  Today, we know better and stop using lotions based on mineral oil,  We are better educated now, we have easy access to information........ not everything used for generations is good.  ie  I was suffering with asthma for years, still my parents had no idea that smoking in house is causing my asthma attacks
Everyone smoked in houses in presence of children ............. now we know better

No not debating just stating that babies skin does not handle high PH to well. 
Adults are pretty good in this area.  they can balance skin PH in 10-15 minutes


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## Arimara (Nov 10, 2016)

Commercial bars are also designed to dry your skin out. If you made your own syndet bar, it will still be superior to a commercial bar. While we're on the subject, isn't it mis-informative to lump all commercial soaps as detergents when a good chunk of them have the non-surfactant additives that we as soapers also use? I've looked at many of the soaps that I used to buy on the regular and most of them are actually soaps, albeit unbalanced soaps. Dove, and a few others like it, is not a soap to my knowledge.


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## pcs (Nov 11, 2016)

Thanks for all the information.

Lard, Colloidal Oatmeal, syndet bar.. all new revelations for me 

I would like to try lard sometime, but dont know where to get it.. Its not available online. Or can I just go to the meat shop and ask for pig fat?

I too agree that baby skin doesnt handle high pH well and there are many alternatives to using soap. Here we use Besan, greengram powder etc. I intend to stick to these as much as possible. I too use soap sparingly, a good wash in water is often sufficient 

Anyway as of now I think I will redo this project using the new lye concentration as 38%. Also I will try adding almond oil to bring down use of too much olive oil. I ve heard that Almond oil is good and gentle enough for baby skin.  

Recipe calculated using soapcalc as follows.

Lye Concentration	38.0000 %
Water		213.03gm
Lye - NaOH	        130.56gm

Coconut Oil, 76 deg		120.00g (12%)
Almond Oil, sweet		200.00g (20%)
Olive Oil	                	680.00g (68%)

superfat 8%

Does it look alright? How long it might take to cure?


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## christost7 (Nov 11, 2016)

I made lard myself the other day, as i also could not find any online.
I asked my butcher store to give me some pork fat.
Thankfully it had no meat at all (far less work to do) so i washed it, dried it, cut it into small pieces with some citchen scissors and put it in a large pot (with just a little water) on very low heat setting (2 out of 9) for about 4 hours.
You really have to stir often.
I filterd the clear oil into jars and now i look forward to making my first lard soap


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## DeeAnna (Nov 11, 2016)

"...Also I will try adding almond oil to bring down use of too much olive oil. I ve heard that Almond oil is good and gentle enough for baby skin. ..."

Have you compared the fatty acid profile of almond oil and olive oil? They are fairly similar, so I don't quite how subbing almond for olive will really address your concern. 

Almond oil is 71% oleic acid according to my notes. That oleic acid is exactly the same as the 69% oleic acid from olive oil. The rest of the fatty acids in either oil are palmitic and linoleic, so again these two oils have a lot of similarity. 

You would be better to use a high palmitic or high stearic fat such as palm, tallow, or lard to really alter the fatty acid profile of the soap and still keep the recipe as mild as possible.

Also, please don't confuse the properties of any given oil with the SOAP made from that oil. The lye breaks the oil down into glycerin and fatty acids and makes soap from the fatty acids. There may be trace amounts of the fat remaining in the soap if there's not enough lye to react with all of the fat, but you can't count on almond, for example, being ALL of the left-over fat (aka superfat).


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 11, 2016)

^^^ this. Pretty much 19 times out of 20 the baby bath (16 month old) is water and sweet almond OIL. One time in 20 we use a soap. Because soap is not needed more often than that and the oil does wonders for the skin


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## IrishLass (Nov 11, 2016)

I agree with DeeAnna that almond oil is not the best oil to add to your soap formula if your aim is to cut down on the oleic acid content, and that high stearic fats such as lard, tallow or palm oil are better options to use instead of the almond oil. I see that you live in India, so beef tallow may not be an option for you, and pre-made lard may be hard to find, although you could render it yourself at home if you are able to find a butcher shop that sells pork products (the pig fat from around the kidneys of a pig is best). Palm oil may probably be the easiest to find, but other options to use in case you can't find palm are any of these: mango butter, or cocoa butter, or shea butter or kokum butter.


IrishLass


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## dixiedragon (Nov 11, 2016)

What is the most-eaten meat in your community? It might be easier for you to get goat or sheep fat, rather than pork fat.

We Americans are huge fans of pork. Apparently in the early days of our country there was a tongue-in-cheek campaign to name us the Republic of Porkdom.

Early explorers - such as DeSota - brought pigs with them from Europe. They herded the pigs with them on their travels so they had a reliable supply of meat. Pigs are omnivorous, pretty formidable (check out the tusks) and a sow can have 10+ young a year. Much better than a cow which has a much more limited diet, only has 1 (maybe 2) young a year and is not very well able to defend itself. Feral pigs are actually becoming a big problem, and many of those pigs are descended from Desoto's pigs.

I suppose the sheep and goats were considered too valuable to eat, since they produced wool and milk, so perhaps only old (meaning not very tasty) sheep and goats were eaten?

I'm done rambling for now! Is rice bran oil available in your area? I would try something with low or no coconut oil (under 10%), a higher superfat (probably around 10%).


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## Steve85569 (Nov 11, 2016)

"
Lard, Colloidal Oatmeal, syndet bar.. all new revelations for me 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I would like to try lard sometime, but dont know where to get it.. Its  not available online. Or can I just go to the meat shop and ask for pig  fat?"

If you live in an area that butchers pigs you may be able to find lard in the oil or baking section of a grocery store. Sometimes they hide the lard in a refridgerated section. DW found me some flake lard in the meat section and brought home just this week.

I love that woman!


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## pcs (Nov 13, 2016)

Thanks for all the replies and very interesting comments!

The easiest and purest oil to find in my part of the world is coconut oil. The name of my place itself is Kerala, which means "Abundance of coconuts"! But I know it can be very drying to the skin, so I ll keep that to a minimum. 

"Have you compared the fatty acid profile of almond oil and olive oil?"
No! New perspective! thanks! 
Also I was under the assumption that the goodness of oils that we use infuses into the soap that we make. But yeah, ultimately the oil breaks down when combines with lye. But I guess the nutrients and superfat stay in the resulting soap and that nourishes skin.

I have to check availability and price of Palm oil, Tallow and lard.

How do we make sure animal fat does not contain infectious micro organisms harmful for babies?

I dont know what is the outside world s image of meat consumption in india especially after controversies about beef eating, but Kerala s national favourite remains beef. We are separated from the mainland by the western ghats, so we have a flavor of culture and preferences of our own. There is a political agenda to ban beef, but we have resisted by organising beef festivals  So beef tallow might not be hard to find afterall, only I have to make sure that its good quality - no infections, should be fresh etc. Pig butchering is not very common, but I might be able to find a couple of places. I might try one of these as my next project.

In the meanwhile, what if I use 90%olive oil, 10%coconut oil with 40% Lye concentration? How long will it take to cure?

Cheers!


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## Dahila (Nov 13, 2016)

It will need at least 6 months of cure,  many people make this kind of soap and cure it for a year.  It is called bastile soap , I cure mine 4-6 months


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## dixiedragon (Nov 13, 2016)

I don't think a bacteria or virus would survive the rendering process and the lye process.


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## pcs (Nov 15, 2016)

Hmm.. So either I make a bastile soap or use lard/tallow/palm and cut down on olive oil.

Palm oil (Red)seems very costly online - 40$ for 8oz. Clearly not an option for me.

Have to explore the other two. Until then, gram flour cleansing for my baby!

Thank you everyone for responding to my post!

Cheers!


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## Obsidian (Nov 15, 2016)

You don't want to use red palm, it will make bright orange soap with orange lather. 
Do you have any solid cooking shortening available? Sometimes you can find a brand that is refined palm (white)


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## Arimara (Nov 15, 2016)

Obsidian said:


> You don't want to use red palm, it will make bright orange soap with orange lather.
> Do you have any solid cooking shortening available? Sometimes you can find a brand that is refined palm (white)



I have to agree but it's the smell of red palm oil soap that gets to me more. :-?


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## dixiedragon (Nov 15, 2016)

I think palm is a fairly common cooking oil in India? Check out shortening and read the ingredients. You may find a shortening that is a blend - for example here in the US shortening is a blend of palm and a few other things. Great Value (Walmart brand) has a shortening that is a blend of beef tallow and other things. Both of these are in the soap calc. While you may not have these exact brands, I would wager that if you find an all-veg shortening with palm as the first ingredient, or a beef tallow shortening with tallow as a first ingredient, you would still be able to use those in the soap calc.

You may also want to experiment with using coconut oil at higher rates and giving your soap a higher superfat.

For example, salt bars are usually 90-100% coconut oil with a 20% superfat. The salt is somewhere from 50% to 100% of oil weight. The soap does have to age a while, but it is very nice.

Also, what about mango butter?


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## pcs (Nov 17, 2016)

Obsidian said:


> You don't want to use red palm, it will make bright orange soap with orange lather.
> Do you have any solid cooking shortening available? Sometimes you can find a brand that is refined palm (white)



I will explore the supermarket next time. It must be available I too feel.

"For example, salt bars are usually 90-100% coconut oil with a 20% superfat. The salt is somewhere from 50% to 100% of oil weight. The soap does have to age a while, but it is very nice."

whoa! 100% coconut oil?? Cant wait to try this one! sea salt is easily available too! this one is my next project!  Thank you!!!  

Cheers!


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## Obsidian (Nov 21, 2016)

I love salt bars but make sure to ask advice before making them. They can be a bit tricky the first couple times and they have different guidelines then regular soap.


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## cmzaha (Nov 21, 2016)

pcs said:


> Hmm.. So either I make a bastile soap or use lard/tallow/palm and cut down on olive oil.
> 
> Palm oil (Red)seems very costly online - 40$ for 8oz. Clearly not an option for me.
> 
> ...


Not sure what gram flour is, but be careful or oatmeal etc when using it on a baby when you still do not know if they have allergies. I ended up in the hospital when I was one, according to my mom, after a dermatologist told her to bath me in an Oatmeal Bath. I was severely allergic to oatmeal baths as a child, although I could eat oats. You an make a lovely soap for baby if you want to use bar soap with shortening, castor (5%) with some soft oil such as Sweet Almond or Avocado. Anything you use for cleaning baby needs to be tested on a small area for reactions. My kids used a nice gentle m&p base soap for their kids with no fo and that is what I recommend when someone ask me for "Baby Soap". Lye soap is not the perfect answer for everyone...


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## pcs (Nov 21, 2016)

um.. I will look out for allergies on my baby s skin.. mostly I will use only warm water to wash him/her.

I am going to try salt bar.. I do feel its tricky, I have started another thread for suggestions on how to make it. I m gonna try it within a couple of weeks  I can take a couple of failures, but the idea seems really good 

cheers!


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