# Additive Usage Rate List (PPO)



## toxikon (Feb 22, 2017)

Hi all!

I'm trying to compile a simple cheat sheet of additive usage rates for cold-process soapmaking - something I can look at quickly while deciding on which additives to use for my next batch and how much to use (with an approximate PPO value).

Let me know if anything looks incorrect or if you'd like to add to the list!

*More Bubbles:*
Sugar = 1-2 TBSP PPO
Honey = 1 TSP to 1 TBSP PPO
Sodium citrate = 1-3% PPO (also decreases soap scum in harder water)

*Harder Bar:*
Salt (dissolved) = 1 TSP PPO
Sodium lactate = 1 TSP PPO

*Creamy Lather:*
Goat Milk Powder = 1 TBSP PPO
Coconut Milk Powder = 1 TBSP PPO
Plain Yogurt = 1oz PPO 
Egg Yolk = 1 tempered yolk PPO

*Skin Nourishing:*
Colloidal Oatmeal = 1 TBSP PPO
Activated Charcoal = 1 TSP to 1 TBSP PPO
Bentonite Clay = 1 TSP PPO

*Colourants:*
Titanium Dioxide = 1/8 to 1 TSP PPO
Mica = 1/8 to 1 TSP PPO (highly dependent on supplier/colour)
Cocoa Powder = 1 TSP to 1 TBSP PPO

*Water Replacements 1:1*
Coconut Milk (adjust superfat as needed)
Fresh Goat Milk (adjust superfat as needed)
Buttermilk (adjust superfat as needed)
Aloe Vera Juice
Brewed Coffee
Beer


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## mx5inpenn (Feb 22, 2017)

Just want to point out that I usually see recommendations of 1tsp ppo for micas.

This list is great and a nice easy way to keep it all in one place. There are other additives used regularly by others, but I don't know the usage rates. Maybe you'll get ideas for new additives to try.


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## toxikon (Feb 22, 2017)

mx6inpenn said:


> Just want to point out that I usually see recommendations of 1tsp ppo for micas.
> 
> This list is great and a nice easy way to keep it all in one place. There are other additives used regularly by others, but I don't know the usage rates. Maybe you'll get ideas for new additives to try.



Thank you! I had trouble finding a usage rate for mica, I assume it's very dependent on the mica in question. But it's good to know 1 tsp is an option! I'll add that in.

I mostly stuck to additives that I already have, so if people have some other good ones to contribute, maybe I'll have to add them to my wishlist.


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## earlene (Feb 22, 2017)

The usage rate for mica best comes from where you purchase it. Also what type of soap you make.  I have seen different usage rates for different types of soap methods.

I like the idea of your simple one-page cheat sheet.


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## toxikon (Feb 22, 2017)

earlene said:


> The usage rate for mica best comes from where you purchase it. Also what type of soap you make.  I have seen different usage rates for different types of soap methods.
> 
> I like the idea of your simple one-page cheat sheet.



I only do cold-process, maybe I should specify that in my post!


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## Arimara (Feb 22, 2017)

I've been playing around with indigo and have had only one successful attempt in getting the color to stay. The soap was a bit of a fail and had to be rebatched though.


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## penelopejane (Feb 23, 2017)

The list is a great idea. 

Not sure if this is common practice but:

I use 1 tbsp ppo for honey. 

I use powdered milk to make full cream milk according to the packet and according to the amount of water required in the mix. So if the mix needs 200g of water total then I add enough powdered milk to make 200g of milk.

If I use coconut milk I use 50/50 lye mix then add all the remaining liquid as coconut milk.  You can mix colours and salt into this if they don't mix with oil. 

AC and TD amounts will vary depending if you hand blend or SB them in.


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## IrishLass (Feb 23, 2017)

I do the same as Penelopejane in regards to using 1 tbsp. honey ppo, and I also do pretty much the same with the milks.

With sugar, I actually like to add 2 tbsp. ppo (I'm a bubbleholic :mrgreen. 


IrishLass


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## Susie (Feb 23, 2017)

You can also use the following:

Skin nourishing (AKA label appeal until I get to test the bars) Aloe Vera Juice-sub for water

Colorants

Cocoa Powder-1 tsp - 1 Tbsp PPO.  Can also be used for "mica" line.

Coffee- sub for water


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## CTAnton (Feb 23, 2017)

I'm just wondering what the upper limit is for Tablespoons per pound on sugar...I'm currently doing the 2TBL/ppo like Irish Lass but I did do a test soap with 4TBL/ppo....that one is still curing...


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## Susie (Feb 23, 2017)

I have tried the 2 TBL/PPO rate, and do not find that it improves my bubbles more than the 1 TBL/PPO with 5% KOH/95% NaOH does.  Am I doing something wrong?


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## toxikon (Feb 23, 2017)

Thanks everybody, added more to the list.  I'm curious to hear about your 4tbsp sugar soap CTAnton! Did you freeze/fridge it after pouring?


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## newbie (Feb 26, 2017)

Sodium citrate: 1-3% ppo. Sodium citrate adds to bubblage and will also decrease soap scum in harder water.


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## IrishLass (Feb 26, 2017)

Susie said:


> I have tried the 2 TBL/PPO rate, and do not find that it improves my bubbles more than the 1 TBL/PPO with 5% KOH/95% NaOH does. Am I doing something wrong?


 

I've noticed that it can very recipe dependent. In my 2 main recipes (one is an all-veggie formula, and the other is lard/tallow/veggie formula), there is a definite difference between 1 tbsp. ppo and 2 tbsp. ppo., but I notice it more in my all-veggie formula.

I once made a batch of my all-veggie formula with 4 tbsp. sugar ppo, and wow- the bubbles were out of this world! I swear, if I didn't know any better, I would have thought I was using one of my 100% CO soaps with a 20% S/F. Unfortunately, the soap came out quite soft and spongy to the touch, and stayed that way for well over a year (I could still leave an indention in it when pressed).


IrishLass


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## dalsignum (Feb 27, 2017)

does adding sugar decreases soap hardness?


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## toxikon (Feb 27, 2017)

dalsignum said:


> does adding sugar decreases soap hardness?



As IrishLass says above, using a high amount of sugar can result in a spongey bar. But for only 1-2 tablespoons PPO, it shouldn't make much of a difference (if any) in bar hardness.


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## wearytraveler (Feb 27, 2017)

I have been using 6-7 TSBP sugar for the last few batches with no issues.  My batches are just under or at the 3 Lb mark.  I plan to go with 8 TBSP with my next batch.  I CPOP and have never had an issue with overheating (yet).  And I'm one to force gelling so after the the batch has been in the oven for about an hour or so I turn the oven back on for a minute (exactly a minute) and keep the temp up to ensure it gels.  I do that three or four times through the night before leaving it be and taking it out the next day.  Again, never an issue (yet).  Oh, and I use 100% aloe vera juice.


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## toxikon (Feb 27, 2017)

wearytraveler said:


> I have been using 6-7 TSBP sugar for the last few batches with no issues.  My batches are just under or at the 3 Lb mark.  I plan to go with 8 TBSP with my next batch.  I CPOP and have never had an issue with overheating (yet).  And I'm one to force gelling so after the the batch has been in the oven for about an hour or so I turn the oven back on for a minute (exactly a minute) and keep the temp up to ensure it gels.  I do that three or four times through the night before leaving it be and taking it out the next day.  Again, never an issue (yet).  Oh, and I use 100% aloe vera juice.



Very interesting! How does the heat and amount of sugar affect the colour of your bars? I wonder if there is a caramelization effect happening there.


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## wearytraveler (Feb 27, 2017)

I'm a plane Jane soaper and haven't really messed with colors other than what the clays I've started to use (kaolin and bentonite) add to the batch.  I haven't noticed any ill effects of using as much sugar as I do.  I make sure to keep a very close eye on the batch while it's in the oven and I always place the mold and basket (from Essential Depot) in a container I put together just in case there is a volcano. 




toxikon said:


> Very interesting! How does the heat and amount of sugar affect the colour of your bars? I wonder if there is a caramelization effect happening there.


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## PirateGirl686 (Apr 16, 2017)

How does one go about adding sugar or salt to soap? Do you dissolve in the water? Could you not dissolve them and use them as exfoliants ( if they don't dissolve during the cook). If sugar makes more bubbles what does salt do? Thanks in advance!


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## cmzaha (Apr 16, 2017)

I use up to 1 tbs spoon ppo for TD. Sugar I use 2 tbs ppo


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## nframe (Apr 16, 2017)

I use sugar at the rate of 4% of the oil weight.  So, for 500g of oils, I use 20g sugar.


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## Candybee (Apr 16, 2017)

I've been using 2 heaping tbs sugar for my 3.5 lb oil batches. After reading this I think I am going to try upping that amount to 4tbs per batch.

Question: can you add sugar to your salt bars? Will it work the same in a salt bar adding more bublage?


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## toxikon (Apr 16, 2017)

PirateGirl686 said:


> How does one go about adding sugar or salt to soap? Do you dissolve in the water? Could you not dissolve them and use them as exfoliants ( if they don't dissolve during the cook). If sugar makes more bubbles what does salt do? Thanks in advance!



If you'd like to dissolve your salt or sugar just add it to your water and let it dissolve, then add your lye. 

You can add 30-100% salt directly to your oils/batter as well. That makes a "salt bar". It doesn't really exfoliate but it will be a nice hard silky bar. Because salt inhibits lather most people use a high coconut oil recipe with salt bars. 

Adding sugar directly to your batter makes a spongey bar. I'm not entirely sure what the other benefits may be, I've never tried it myself. Others might chime in!


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## Arimara (Apr 16, 2017)

toxikon said:


> If you'd like to dissolve your salt or sugar just add it to your water and let it dissolve, then add your lye.
> 
> You can add 30-100% salt directly to your oils/batter as well. That makes a "salt bar". It doesn't really exfoliate but it will be a nice hard silky bar. Because salt inhibits lather most people use a high coconut oil recipe with salt bars.
> 
> Adding sugar directly to your batter makes a spongey bar. I'm not entirely sure what the other benefits may be, I've never tried it myself. Others might chime in!



Salt adds to the bar's hardness and sugar increases bubbles. Both have to be dissolved in water before lye is added to get the stated benefits


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## toxikon (Apr 16, 2017)

Arimara said:


> Salt adds to the bar's hardness and sugar increases bubbles. Both have to be dissolved in water before lye is added to get the stated benefits



Yup I just couldn't remember what kind of effects you get from adding sugar directly to your batter.


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## Arimara (Apr 16, 2017)

toxikon said:


> Yup I just couldn't remember what kind of effects you get from adding sugar directly to your batter.



I'm not trying it. :mrgreen:


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## wearytraveler (Apr 16, 2017)

I add the sugar to the water (or aloe vera juice, in my case) and let it dissolve completely before adding the lye.  I've been trying powdered sugar for my last 2 batches thinking that the powder would dissolve better/faster than the granulated sugar but I'm seeing the opposite; the powder dissolves slower.  The last little bit of powdered sugar dissolves only after the lye generates the heat.  That being said, I don't notice any crystallization of the undissolved powdered sugar when the lye is added.  I've poured the lye water through a strainer to make sure and so far nothing.
I can't comment about salt as I've never used it.




PirateGirl686 said:


> How does one go about adding sugar or salt to soap? Do you dissolve in the water? Could you not dissolve them and use them as exfoliants ( if they don't dissolve during the cook). If sugar makes more bubbles what does salt do? Thanks in advance!


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## Arimara (Apr 17, 2017)

wearytraveler said:


> I add the sugar to the water (or aloe vera juice, in my case) and let it dissolve completely before adding the lye.  I've been trying powdered sugar for my last 2 batches thinking that the powder would dissolve better/faster than the granulated sugar but I'm seeing the opposite; the powder dissolves slower.  The last little bit of powdered sugar dissolves only after the lye generates the heat.  That being said, I don't notice any crystallization of the undissolved powdered sugar when the lye is added.  I've poured the lye water through a strainer to make sure and so far nothing.
> I can't comment about salt as I've never used it.



Blame the cornstarch. part of the reason why you have to cook any pastry cream or some custards is because cornstarch needs heat to do its thing, generally speaking. At the very least you would need very warm water to at least start dissolving powdered sugar. It's easier just to use the regular granulated sugar (personal theory).

Do you notice a differences with bars that have powdered sugar vs regular sugar?


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## WeaversPort (Apr 18, 2017)

You could also use oat milk or hemp milk instead of water.

And I believe I read somewhere about adding rice flour to give a nice, silky feel to the lather. 

Was that IrishLass?


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## toxikon (Apr 18, 2017)

I wish I could still edit my original post to add more - I guess it's no longer an option. :-?


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## wearytraveler (Apr 18, 2017)

Thanks for the insight.  I didn't know that.  The verdict is still out and I plan to make a few more batches before I can say that there is a difference between the granulated and powdered.  Though, if I had to venture a guess as of now... no difference.  





Arimara said:


> Blame the cornstarch. part of the reason why you have to cook any pastry cream or some custards is because cornstarch needs heat to do its thing, generally speaking. At the very least you would need very warm water to at least start dissolving powdered sugar. It's easier just to use the regular granulated sugar (personal theory).
> 
> Do you notice a differences with bars that have powdered sugar vs regular sugar?


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## Sharryn (Apr 19, 2017)

toxikon said:


> I wish I could still edit my original post to add more - I guess it's no longer an option. :-?


 
Yeah, I wouldn't mind having a copy of this list (with the additions).  Maybe a new post?


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## Susie (Apr 19, 2017)

It would be better to create a Google doc that everyone can access.  That way it can be updated without editing your original post. Something like the Fragrance Oil Review thread/link.


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## toxikon (Apr 19, 2017)

Susie said:


> It would be better to create a Google doc that everyone can access.  That way it can be updated without editing your original post. Something like the Fragrance Oil Review thread/link.



Aha, great idea Susie. I haven't used Google Docs before but I will take a look at it.


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## Steve85569 (Apr 19, 2017)

Sugar likes water and will make soap softer when added to the oils. It also may not dissolve in a low water recipe and will be scratchy. In high water soaps it can make for an interesting effect.
I would use vinegar water in such a recipe myself.

Don't ask how I learned that lesson...


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## aihrat (Apr 20, 2017)

thanks for putting this together toxicon  looking forward to editing the version on Google Docs!

Avocado Puree: 1-2oz PPO (adjust superfat as needed)

don't know if citric acid has been mentioned here yet.....but it's 1-3% PPO plus (citric acid weight)*0.624 extra NaOH. similar benefits to sodium citrate.

(definitely agree with the recommended amounts for sugar, but if anyone is interested...you can go up to 14% soap weight honey in a recipe [around 17-20% ppo]. the soap will set well and have good texture if you use hard oils. the resultant soap isn't spongy like sugar but quite thirsty, and makes terrific, abundant, tiny bubbles. you can either put the honey in the lye water without any other prep [via IrishLass], or you can put the honey in the oils and freeze individual cavity moulds)


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## SunRiseArts (Jul 27, 2017)

Arimara said:


> I've been playing around with indigo and have had only one successful attempt in getting the color to stay. The soap was a bit of a fail and had to be rebatched though.


 

all the ultramarines I bought turned purple! :x


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## godschild (Aug 12, 2017)

Confused about the citric acid and extra Naoh for reducing soap scum/hard water and adding bubbles.  Please help. Is there a formula?  Edited:  Making a new post.  Thanks!


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