# Soap for greasy/oily hair, help please.



## ForestFairy (May 29, 2016)

Hello!

Im looking for a simple soap recipe for washing my greasy/oily hair. i decided not to buy shampooes in the shop anymore, because they are expensive and too "heavy" for me. im new to the forum and soap making, so i will be glad for any suggestion, maybe coconut base + olive oil (or something) and what about super fat should i use 5% or more?
Thanks!


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## Kamahido (May 29, 2016)

The shampoo bars that I make for my wife are from Genny's Shampoo Bar post which can be found...

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=30946

Gives a nice lather doesn't leave a residue.


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## BrightBox (Jun 9, 2016)

I make a 100% coconut oil shampoo bar. Some people complain that using all coconut oil can be drying, but I have customers with oily hair who really like that. It will still leave your hair clean and soft. Plus that lather is amazing!

I have heard of soapers that super fat up to 20% with 100% coconut oil because it never goes rancid. I have personally gone that high without a problem. 

If you decided to use all coconut oil, be careful in how long you leave it in the mold. Especially with a water discount. It hardens VERY fast. I can usually un-mold anywhere from 8-12 hours.  Anything after that is harder to cut. Also soap at lower temps. It tends to volcano if it is too hot and too insulated. 

Hope this helps. Have a great day!


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## shunt2011 (Jun 9, 2016)

I wouldn't use 100% CO on my hair for a million dollars. Soap is not good for our hair. It will cause major damage.  There are many here who have tried CP shampoo bars that have had their hair ruined.  Me included. The ph is too high for our hair.  Though you will get a few who swear by it.


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## TeresaT (Jun 9, 2016)

What shampoo(s) have you been using?  Have you tried alternating shampoos?  I have two shampoos that I use, one from Bumble & Bumble and one from Frizz Ease.  I alternate between them, I don't usually use one more than twice in a row.  This helps reduce any type of buildup from the shampoo and each one is formulated for a different purpose.  High humid days it's the Frizz Ease for sure.   You might just need to switch your shampoo brand and/or type and alternate it with another one.  That could make a huge difference.


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## snappyllama (Jun 9, 2016)

You might want to give the swift crafty monkey blog a read. Excellent information in there for making haircare products as well as why CP isn't great for most folk's hair: 

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/p/hair-care.html


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## BrightBox (Jun 13, 2016)

Great blog article from Swift Crafty Monkey. I learned things about CP soap and hair follicles I did not know. Thanks for sharing. 

However, I stand by my coconut oil shampoo bar. It has not worked for everyone but it has worked for many, myself included without damage to my hair. In fact I have had many people ask me what I use on my hair because it looks healthy. 

Having said that, again this shampoo bar has a substantial super fat and I have tested it and found it to be between 6 and 7 Ph.  The blog article even says that with a PH that low a shampoo bar could be possible. 

Also, the draw backs that she mentions are due in part to hard water. Hard water is brutal on so many things. Is is possible that soft water could counter act some of the draw backs?

Most people who use a shampoo bar only shampoo 2-3 times a week anyway and do take extra measures with apple cider rinses and other like treatments with great success.

With many additives in bottled shampoos like sodium laurel sulfate and others, you are also taking a chance. I still believe that shampoo bars are a natural alternative to hair care but like any product on the market intended for our bodies should be used with prudence and care.

Here is another blog post that would be worth a read for anyone interested in  shampoo bars that is a more middle of the road opinion.

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-shampoo-bars/

Great discussion! I have learned some things.


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## lsg (Jun 13, 2016)

Soap does not work well for my hair as we have very hard water.  Swiftcraftymonkey blogspot has a lot of great info.


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## shunt2011 (Jun 13, 2016)

BrightBox said:


> Great blog article from Swift Crafty Monkey. I learned things about CP soap and hair follicles I did not know. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Your soap cannot have that low of a PH or it's not soap.  Soap has a PH of 8-12 and generally falls into the 9.5-10 for most.


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## Obsidian (Jun 13, 2016)

BrightBox, how long have you been using soap on your hair? I used shampoo bars for two years and loved them. I sang their praises, you can find multiple posts on here where I recommend them. All my family had been given bars with instructions, I pushed them to use the bars because they were so wonderful.

One year ago my hair started getting crunchy and dry, shortly after it started breaking off in 1" chunks. Within 2 weeks I went from nice healthy looking hair to completely destroyed broken hair. I had to cut it all off, it was under 1" to remove all the damage.

I realize some people can and do use shampoo bars for years with no damage but thats few and far between. Even if I went back to shampoo bars, I would never recommend them to other, I would feel terrible if someone went through what I did because of something I recommended. If you continue to recommend your highly cleansing soap to people, you should at least warn them that it could damage their hair so they can be on the look out and stop using before its too late.


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## Seawolfe (Jun 14, 2016)

BrightBox said:


> Having said that, again this shampoo bar has a substantial super fat and I have tested it and found it to be between 6 and 7 Ph.  The blog article even says that with a PH that low a shampoo bar could be possible.



I'm sorry, but without using synthetic detergents this simply isn't possible. If the pH were that low it would separate out and cease to be soap. Kevin Dunn even offered a substantial award if someone could send him a sample of neutral pH soap to be tested on lab equipment, the award has yet to be won.

But back to hair - I like to use my salt bars once in awhile, with an ACV rinse, when my hair is really grubby.


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## TwystedPryncess (Jun 14, 2016)

Nope, me either. Give me my silicone for my hair.


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## cmzaha (Jun 14, 2016)

BrightBox said:


> Great blog article from Swift Crafty Monkey. I learned things about CP soap and hair follicles I did not know. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> However, I stand by my coconut oil shampoo bar. It has not worked for everyone but it has worked for many, myself included without damage to my hair. In fact I have had many people ask me what I use on my hair because it looks healthy.
> 
> ...


The operative word in paragraph 3 is "Shampoo", not Soap. Shampoo bars which are syndet bars do have a lower ph which is why we use shampoo for hair not soap. 

If you are selling soap bars for shampoo I really hope you have good insurance especially if selling them to customers with long hair. Short hair will not show the damage over time since it is cut regularly, but long hair will. People take a lot of pride in their hair and lawsuits can get ugly.


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## Susie (Jun 14, 2016)

I am another one who used "shampoo" bars for my hair.  I stopped when it started getting crunchy.  I had to have a substantial portion cut off.  Hair tolerates soap for a very short time.  I would not hesitate to use it once or twice a year if my hair was especially dirty/oily, or to remove product build up, but no more than that.


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## BrightBox (Jun 14, 2016)

I have only been soaping for three years, and it looks like I have some more to learn. I have appreciated the new information that I have found here.

Obsidian, I have been using them for a little over a year, and I thank you for sharing your experience. I certainly would not want to sell something to someone that would be harmful. I also don't want to harm my own hair.

As far as the Ph level, I use a test strip and compared it to the color chart on the bottle which was a complete match. It's possible that the accuracy of these are not the best.  It was an affordable bottle of strips I bought online.  When I tested my bar, it was the exact color of green for 7 with a slight shade of yellow coming through for 6. I will certainly do some more research on testing bars.

Thank you all for sharing your experiences and knowledge.


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## Dahila (Jun 14, 2016)

I had used Obsidian shampoo bars and I do believe it somehow stopped my hair loss,  Then i made Syndet bars  Susan http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ca/
My hair is wonderful , not hair loss and no itching or dandruff.  I will never use soap on my hair again 
Soap will be no soap if ph is 6-7 .  it will be a glob of soft mess.   
Soap is between 10-12 ph


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## DeeAnna (Jun 14, 2016)

BrightBox said:


> ...I have tested it and found it to be between 6 and 7 Ph.  The blog article even says that with a PH that low a shampoo bar could be possible.



If it has a pH that low, the product has to be formulated with syndets (synthetic detergents), not lye soap. A lye soap with a pH that low is no longer actual soap -- it's going to be a messy mixture of fatty acids.  

Swift's shampoo bars are all syndet based. They don't have a drop of lye soap in them whatsoever. That's why their pH can be lower than lye soap.

The use of pH strips is notoriously inaccurate when used with soap.



BrightBox said:


> ...Also, the draw backs that she mentions are due in part to hard water. Hard water is brutal on so many things. Is is possible that soft water could counter act some of the draw backs?...



Soft water prevents or reduces the amount of soap scum that forms. It does not counteract the alkaline nature of a lye soap.



BrightBox said:


> ...Most people who use a shampoo bar only shampoo 2-3 times a week anyway and do take extra measures with apple cider rinses and other like treatments with great success....



I would not make the assumption that people only shampoo 2-3 times a week. I happen to do this, but I know many people who feel very strongly about shampooing daily. I certainly did back in high school and college days when my hair was a lot oilier.

An acid rinse does help -- yes that is true. But it does not completely counteract the roughening effect of an alkaline soap; it just reduces the amount of damage that accumulates.

I'm another one who initially thought a lye based soap would be fine for shampooing my hair if I faithfully used an acid rinse. I was wrong. It took me about a year to be convinced, however. By that time, my fine wavy shoulder-length hair was rough and lifeless. Even my husband's much shorter hair was dull and had lost a lot of its wavy spring. 

Lye soap as shampoo was the only option for people before about WWI, but keep in mind people back then didn't bathe or wash their hair even as often as 2 times a week. And even then many women used an acid rinse to counteract the damage.

If lye soap as shampoo works for some people, that's all to the good for them. But I honestly doubt it works well for many folks especially for long-term use.


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## Seawolfe (Jun 14, 2016)

Sorry to say, but those pH test strips are less than useless for this purpose (they also do not work for salt water, and since soap is an alkaline salt of a fatty acid, this may be one reason why, besides micelles and stuff, but thats a different tangent). The only way to properly test soap is to dilute it in DI water and use a recently calibrated electronic meter.



BrightBox said:


> As far as the Ph level, I use a test strip and compared it to the color chart on the bottle which was a complete match. It's possible that the accuracy of these are not the best.  It was an affordable bottle of strips I bought online.  When I tested my bar, it was the exact color of green for 7 with a slight shade of yellow coming through for 6. I will certainly do some more research on testing bars.


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## Hils67 (Mar 3, 2019)

I know this is an old thread, but I’m so glad I read it. With the popularity of shampoo bars rising, I was thinking of making a shampoo soap bar. I’ve now decided against this idea, as I don’t want to be responsible for someone’s hair being damaged. I had read about the ph level for hair and scalp so was already a bit sceptical, but having read people’s experiences I’m more convinced, much as I love soap, I won’t be using it on my hair.  Thank you


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## Meena (Mar 3, 2019)

Hils67 said:


> I know this is an old thread, but I’m so glad I read it. With the popularity of shampoo bars rising, I was thinking of making a shampoo soap bar. I’ve now decided against this idea, as I don’t want to be responsible for someone’s hair being damaged. I had read about the ph level for hair and scalp so was already a bit sceptical, but having read people’s experiences I’m more convinced, much as I love soap, I won’t be using it on my hair.  Thank you



Me, too.  I was going to make them last month until I got further into the shampoo bars thread**, at the point where folks were seeing the damage and chopping off their hair.  At that point, I executed a rapid about-face!  I would have been more than mortified if I ruined my hair!!

** https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/shampoo-bar-thanks-lindy.30946/page-37#post-569793


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## Hils67 (Mar 3, 2019)

Meena said:


> Me, too.  I was going to make them last month until I got further into the shampoo bars thread**, at the point where folks were seeing the damage and chopping off their hair.  At that point, I executed a rapid about-face!  I would have been more than mortified if I ruined my hair!!
> 
> ** https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/shampoo-bar-thanks-lindy.30946/page-37#post-569793


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## cmzaha (Mar 3, 2019)

Shampoo is mild detergent based. Soap is not shampoo, nor good for the hair. Ask some of the gals here what happened to their hair


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## Meena (Mar 3, 2019)




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## Hils67 (Mar 3, 2019)

I actually made some yesterday...before reading all these posts!! I added acv to lower ph. I've now got a handful of not quite hard greasy looking bars.  So I guess I'll grate them up with my other failed batches


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## cmzaha (Mar 3, 2019)

Adding ACV will only up the superfat, not lower the ph of soap. They are probably not hard because of the ACV depending on how much you added. I do use distilled vinegar as water full or partial water replacement but add in the necessary extra NaOH to form Sodium Acetate which makes a harder bar.


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## Hils67 (Mar 4, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> Adding ACV will only up the superfat, not lower the ph of soap. They are probably not hard because of the ACV depending on how much you added. I do use distilled vinegar as water full or partial water replacement but add in the necessary extra NaOH to form Sodium Acetate which makes a harder bar.


 Thanks for explaining this. I’m still learning the science...but is fascinating.

What I have learnt for this forum is not to waste time and oils making a shampoo soap!! A friend had asked me to make her one, but I’ll tell her what I’ve found out here. She has gorgeous long hair, so I’ll warn her to stop buying shampoo bars and stick to the Syndet ones. Thanks everyone for the advice


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## kellijordan13 (Jun 19, 2019)

Hils67 said:


> I know this is an old thread, but I’m so glad I read it. With the popularity of shampoo bars rising, I was thinking of making a shampoo soap bar. I’ve now decided against this idea, as I don’t want to be responsible for someone’s hair being damaged. I had read about the ph level for hair and scalp so was already a bit sceptical, but having read people’s experiences I’m more convinced, much as I love soap, I won’t be using it on my hair.  Thank you



Yes! Me too! I have actually been using a shampoo bar but won’t be using any longer. I have noticed my scalp being itchy and my hair being dull. I’m so glad I have been able to read these experiences


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