# Lye water was like jelly??



## sjeanine (Oct 28, 2018)

I accidentally bought evaporated Goats milk instead of just goats milk so I split my water in half, using half to mix with the lye and the other half I threw out and used the evaporated goats milk. I Read somewhere on this form that that was how to do it if you had evaporated milk,  however, when I went to use my lye water it was like a jelly substance... very thick! I went on and used it with my Oils But now I’m wondering if  my soap is safe to use?  I put my mold in the refrigerator overnight and cut it the next day. It appears a little dry and crumbly but not usually so. Any thoughts or advice on this? Thanks!


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## shunt2011 (Oct 28, 2018)

As long as you have a 50/50 mix of water and lye you should be fine.  Though I’ve never had mine go to jelly.  I use evaporated GM and add the difference in liquid to my oils before adding my lye solution.


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## steffamarie (Oct 28, 2018)

It gets really thick at 50% concentration, I'm really not too concerned as long as it doesn't zap  Crumbly might be from your formula or the cold.


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## sjeanine (Oct 28, 2018)

Ok the recipe called for 18 oz of water but I used 9 oz water to the 11.35 oz lye recipe called for...then I added 9 oz of goats milk to my oils before mixing w the lye water...this is what/how I understood it when I read about evap goats milk on this site... (See below)
“If using evap canned goats milk, subtract half the required amount of water and add the lye to that...then add the milk to oils in the amount that makes up subtracted water.”  Do I need to rebatch or is this going to be safe to use??


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## shunt2011 (Oct 28, 2018)

That’s the problem. You didn’t have enough water to lye. You have to have the same amount of water to lye.

As long as your oils measurement were correct you should be fine.  But I would zap test it after a few days.


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## steffamarie (Oct 28, 2018)

Sodium hydroxide needs at least its own weight in water to dissolve properly - which is why your solution was so thick. Next time, you need to use 11.35 oz of water to dissolve 11.35 oz of NaOH, and then the remainder as GM or other liquid additive (if you use the split method, which is what we call this). You should zap test your soap and rebatch if it zaps.


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## IrishLass (Oct 28, 2018)

Yeahhh...... unfortunately the instructions in that old thread are not exactly the best. Whenever using split liquids like that where you'll be dissolving lye into part of your water amount, it's best to always dissolve it into an equal amount of water in weight. Anything above a 50/50 dilution becomes problematic (the lye will have a harder time keeping in suspension the higher the ratio is of lye to water).... unless you heat the water beforehand, but I wouldn't recommend doing that.

I make a 50/50 master-batch concentration all the time, but it's never like jelly.....more like a thin simple syrup at the most.

As for whether or not your soap will be safe......maybe yes, maybe no. The dry crumbliness may very well be due to the soap not gelling. You can find out by checking for zap. If your soap did not gel, don't check for zap until about a week has gone by (ungelled soap can zap for as much as a week because not gelling slows down the completion of saponification).


IrishLass


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## cmzaha (Oct 28, 2018)

I would also question if all the lye dissolved or settled to the bottom of the container.
I also master batch 50/50 and my NaOH will be very much like a simple syrup, which is slightly thicker than mixing with higher liquid. 

The only time my solution really thickens up is when I am going with 50/50 vinegar /NaOH or with purees


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## sjeanine (Oct 28, 2018)

So to be safe should I just rebatch? Darn! I thought those instructions seemed odd... shouldve gone w my instincts. I will say I added about 2 oz extra oils and it took forever to trace! Thought my stickblender was going to blow out on me! Lol


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## penelopejane (Oct 28, 2018)

sjeanine said:


> View attachment 32883
> So to be safe should I just rebatch? Darn! I thought those instructions seemed odd... shouldve gone w my instincts. I will say I added about 2 oz extra oils and it took forever to trace! Thought my stickblender was going to blow out on me! Lol



I wouldn’t rebatch.
Wait instead. Most soap corrects itself in 8 weeks.
What was the recipe?
Is it crumbly and hard or soft?
You might have just unmold Too early.
As long as the right amount of liquid got in there in the end and all the lye got in there and dissolved it should be ok.

If you added 2 Oz extra oils you are going to have a higher SF than you thought. You can run it they a soap calc with the right amounts oil oils and fiddle with the SF until the lye/water is what you used to see what SF you ended up with.


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## DeeAnna (Oct 28, 2018)

A 50% NaOH solution is syrupy like pancake syrup or honey at normal room temp (70F, 20C). When the temp drops below 60F (15C), it will become jelly-like and may start crystallizing out.

You were inadvertently trying to make a 56% NaOH solution. The absolute best one can do is about 52% NaOH at room temperature, although the normal rule of thumb says 50% is the max. That's a sensible, convenient rule of thumb to stick with, so that's what I say and do, although I know the actual truth is a wee bit different.

If you did not see any solid crystals of NaOH in the bottom of your lye container, then you either defeated a basic chemical property of NaOH (not likely!) ... or your NaOH is not 100% pure.  I'm guessing a small % of impurities (a normal thing for NaOH) allowed your NaOH to fully dissolve.

But you might want to stick with a 50% NaOH solution max for the future.


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## sjeanine (Oct 29, 2018)

penelopejane said:


> I wouldn’t rebatch.
> Wait instead. Most soap corrects itself in 8 weeks.
> What was the recipe?
> Is it crumbly and hard or soft?
> ...


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## sjeanine (Oct 29, 2018)

The recipe I used is as follows :

Oatmeal, Milk & Honey
32 oz lard
20 oz coconut oil
16 oz olive oil
4 oz canola oil
8 oz palm oil
18 oz water
11.35 oz lye

2 oz castor oil at trace
1 - 12 oz can goats milk (added to oils)
3/4 cup ground oats (added to oils at light trace)
1/4 cup honey (added at light trace)
.5 oz frag oil (light trace)

It easily took 3/4 hr to reach trace using my stick blender and then I put it in my refrigerator overnight... thats been a few days ago now and I just cut it yesterday. 

I have made this recipe in the past and it came out wonderful and very conditioning but not a lot of bubbles....that’s why I added the caster to this one....this is the first time I grabbed the wrong goats milk since I ended up having evaporated goats milk which confused me with the whole recipe and obviously must’ve messed me up! Ugh! Was hoping to make these bars to give out as Christmas gifts to family this year I have never sold any of my soaps!


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## steffamarie (Oct 29, 2018)

Did you use 18oz water and also 12oz of goat’s milk? If so, that’s a LOT of liquid. Using that much liquid would end up giving you a lye concentration of around 26% which is extremely low. That would partially explain your difficulty in reaching trace - along with the large amount of slow moving oils (lard and olive), as others have said.


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## sjeanine (Oct 29, 2018)

steffamarie said:


> Did you use 18oz water and also 12oz of goat’s milk? If so, that’s a LOT of liquid. Using that much liquid would end up giving you a lye concentration of around 26% which is extremely low. That would partially explain your difficulty in reaching trace - along with the large amount of slow moving oils (lard and olive), as others have said.



No, I only used half the water and then replace the other half of liquid called for with evaporated goats milk.


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## sjeanine (Oct 29, 2018)

Well I did the zap test and didnt get zinged so maybe it’ll be ok to use? Sure wish I could find my test strips! Ugh


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## shunt2011 (Oct 29, 2018)

sjeanine said:


> Well I did the zap test and didnt get zinged so maybe it’ll be ok to use? Sure wish I could find my test strips! Ugh



Well, I would just put it up to cure and see. Also, PH strips aren’t going to tell you much. Not worth the effort. Won’t tell you if it’s lye heavy.


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## earlene (Nov 10, 2018)

You can use evaporated goats milk in soap. It's fine to use.  I think I am not the only one here who has used it with fine results.  Your soap looks like it will be fine.  

I'd zap test several surfaces of the soap though, just to be sure.  With 56% lye solution, the possibility of lye crystals is higher, but if you didn't see any when you cut the soap and if you are pretty sure it was fully dissolved when you poured the lye, maybe none ended up in the soap.  But I did once have large rocks of lye crystals in my soap and I have to admit I was stupid enough to zap test one of those rocks.  I'll never do that again!  My tongue took a couple of weeks to heal!  Anyway, my purpose in mentioning that is, that just one simple zap test on one surface of one bar of your soap might not be enough.  And I'd think back to when pouring the jelly-like lye and try to remember if it was only jelly like or did it have any solids at the bottom and if it did what did you do with the solids?


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## tammy sue starks (Jun 27, 2020)

ok, now I am confused. I am currently making goat milk soap. Milk is on the counter thawing and it is half of the liquid called for. This is my recipe

SoapCalc ©Recipe Name:  New   Print Recipe


Total oil weight​3000 g​Water as percent of oil weight​21.14 %​Super Fat/Discount​5 %​Lye Concentration​40.0000 %​Water : Lye Ratio​1.5000:1​

Sat : Unsat Ratio​48 : 52​Iodine​51​INS​158​Fragrance Ratio​31​Fragrance Weight​93.00 g​


​*Pounds*​*Ounces*​*Grams*​Water​1.39822.37634.25Lye - *NaOH*​0.93214.92422.84Oils​6.614105.823,000.00Fragrance​0.2053.2893.00Soap weight before CP cure or HP cook

9.149146.394,150.09

#√Oil/Fat​%​*Pounds*​*Ounces*​*Grams*​1​Castor Oil​4.000.2654.23120.002​Coconut Oil, 76 deg​20.001.32321.16600.003​Lard, Pig Tallow Manteca​66.004.36569.841,980.004​Olive Oil pomace​10.000.66110.58300.00​ Totals100.006.614105.823,000.00


*Soap Bar Quality**Range*​*Your Recipe*​Hardness29 - 54​45​Cleansing12 - 22​14​Conditioning44 - 69​49​Bubbly14 - 46​18​Creamy16 - 48​35​Iodine41 - 70​51​INS136 - 165​158​

Lauric10Myristic4Palmitic22Stearic9Ricinoleic4Oleic39​Linoleic6Linolenic0


Additives​Notes​I used half of the water allowance for the lye, and the other half is goat milk. My lye is like jelly also with bit glass like crystals in it. Should I add more water?


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## Jersey Girl (Jun 27, 2020)

tammy sue starks said:


> ok, now I am confused. I am currently making goat milk soap. Milk is on the counter thawing and it is half of the liquid called for. This is my recipe
> 
> SoapCalc ©Recipe Name:New   Print Recipe
> ​
> ...


You need to use at least 14.92 oz of water to make your lye solution as the lye weighs 14.92oz.  It needs an equal amount of lye and water in order to dissolve. Then you would subtract 14.92 from 22..37 to get the amount of goats milk to add to your oils Which brings your total liquid to 22.37 oz


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## tammy sue starks (Jun 27, 2020)

Jersey Girl said:


> You need to use at least 14.92 oz of water to make your lye solution as the lye weighs 14.92oz.  It needs an equal amount of lye and water in order to dissolve. Then you would subtract 14.92 from 22..37 to get the amount of goats milk to add to your oils Which brings your total liquid to 22.37 oz


Hopefully I didn't mess it up, but added 100 grams of water since I was using a 40% lye solution. I will check that next though, thank you


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## Jersey Girl (Jun 27, 2020)

tammy sue starks said:


> Hopefully I didn't mess it up, but added 100 grams of water since I was using a 40% lye solution. I will check that next though, thank you


 I think you’ll be fine, you definitely had some room to work adding water with a lye solution of 40%.


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## penelopejane (Jun 28, 2020)

tammy sue starks said:


> Hopefully I didn't mess it up, but added 100 grams of water since I was using a 40% lye solution. I will check that next though, thank you


Do you mean you added an extra 190g of water over and above the recipe water?
That’s a pretty big batch 3000g. Maybe with a new recipe you should try 500g batches.


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## tammy sue starks (Jun 28, 2020)

penelopejane said:


> Do you mean you added an extra 190g of water over and above the recipe water?
> That’s a pretty big batch 3000g. Maybe with a new recipe you should try 500g batches.


I sell soap, and making that small of a batch every day would suck


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## TheGecko (Jun 28, 2020)

sjeanine said:


> I accidentally bought evaporated Goats milk instead of just goats milk so I split my water in half, using half to mix with the lye and the other half I threw out and used the evaporated goats milk. I Read somewhere on this form that that was how to do it if you had evaporated milk,  however, when I went to use my lye water it was like a jelly substance... very thick! I went on and used it with my Oils But now I’m wondering if  my soap is safe to use?  I put my mold in the refrigerator overnight and cut it the next day. It appears a little dry and crumbly but not usually so. Any thoughts or advice on this? Thanks!



Using liquid goat milk, whether it's evaporated, from the dairy cases, or straight from the goat, needs a bit of extra work. But it's worth it to get that naturally creamy bar of soap.

When using Evaporated Goat Milk, mix the entire can with an equal amount of distilled water and freeze into either ice cubes or small blocks. If using store bought goat milk or fresh goat milk...freeze into ice cubes or blocks.

Weigh out your frozen GM the same as you would your water and then place in a larger bowl filled with regular ice, some water and a tablespoon or two of salt (the salt slows down the ice melting and keeps the water colder longer). Slowly add in small amounts of Sodium Hydroxide at a time and mix thoroughly, try not to let your lye solution get above 75F max. If it starts getting a little warm...let it rest and doing something else, like melting your hard oils, dispearsing your colorants, having a cup of coffee or a glass of ice tea. Milk has a lot of natural sugars and if it overheats it will scorch/burn and you will end up with tan soap.

And because of the fat in milk, the lye will immediate start to bind and start the saponification process so your lye solution will be thicker.  It's okay...I left it sitting for 30-45 minutes, gave it a stir, dumped it into my oil and it blended up beautifully.


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## penelopejane (Jun 29, 2020)

tammy sue starks said:


> I sell soap, and making that small of a batch every day would suck


Yes, so do I but I can’t stand waste so with new recipes I do a 500g tester.


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