# New to soap making - 1st batch didn't go well, why?



## Sonya-m (Nov 24, 2014)

Hi. So I attempted my first batch of CP soap on Saturday and it didn't go well. I thought I had thoroughly read up on the process and was prepared but after this I'm wondering what/where it went wrong. 

This is my recipe:

500g olive oil (think this is 17.64 oz)
300g coconut oil (10.59 oz)
200g palm oil (7.06 oz)
142g lye (5.01 oz)
380g water (13.4 oz)
30g FO (cinnamon & orange)

I added the lye to the water. Melted all my oils together over a bain marie. 
I left my lye/water solution outside (was approx 50 degrees f here on Saturday) whilst it was giving off fumes then brought it back inside. I waited till the lye solution and oils were about the same temp - though I didn't take the temps, just felt the side of the containers. 

I added the lye solution to the oils and stirred with a wooden spoon but not for very long before adding my colour (mineral powdered mica) and the FO. 

This is the point it all went wrong. The whole thing went 'grainy' (could this be ricing) with little lumps and looked very oily. 

In a panic I frantically googled and figured my best hope was to get some heat to it (over the bain marie) and stir stir stir. It all seemed to melt and combine again but was very thick, too thick to pour. So I spooned into the mould. 

Few questions : what was the grainy bit? What's the difference between ricing and curdling? Was the issue not having the two solutions at the right temp? Was it not stirring long enough? Was it the FO? Is this recipe ever going to work? 

Any advice will be great.


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## smeetree (Nov 24, 2014)

My guess is it was this:

_I waited till the lye solution and oils were about the same temp -  though I didn't take the temps, just felt the side of the containers_

Also, my opinion is you should get a stick blender. Maybe too much heat dissipated while you were hand stirring. I've only made about 14 batches so I am no expert (though I have never had a failure yet).

Some fragrance oils kill batches so it could be that, too. The cinnamon and orange were fragrance and not EO? I'm not sure their reputation but someone here will know.​


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## Obsidian (Nov 24, 2014)

The temps had nothing to do with it, it was the scents you used. Cinnamon is notorious for causing trouble. It sounds like your soap separated, basically the oils separate out from the solid bits and it looks similar to curdled milk. There could have been a bit of ricing going on too, those will be small hard bits that look like rice.

Often, separation and ricing can be remedied by stick blending the heck out the batter but so can hot processing as you found out. In my opinion, you should just stay away from cinnamon. Not only does it cause issues with the soap but it can also burn the skin if you use too much and it only takes a little to be too much.

This page has some good pictures of rice/separation http://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/tips-and-tricks/soap-behaving-badly/


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## smeetree (Nov 24, 2014)

Obsidian said:


> The temps had nothing to do with it, it was the scents you used. Cinnamon is notorious for causing trouble.



Yeah I actually edited my post to mention that. I didn't know if Cinnamon caused problems, but I do know many FO have that reputation. 

Regarding Cinnamon, does it cause problem in FO and EO forms? What about using the powder as a colorant, does that cause problems as well?


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## navigator9 (Nov 24, 2014)

I would advise you to make an uncolored, unscented batch as your first, so you can get the hang of what soapmaking feels like. Then, when you start to use fragrance, read reviews and make sure, while you are still new to soapmaking, that you don't use a FO that seizes, because that can be a challenge for a seasoned soapmaker, much less a beginner .Get a stickblender. Even an inexpensive one will do just fine. Go slow and keep it simple until you feel like you've "got it."


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## Obsidian (Nov 24, 2014)

Yeah, even cinnamon FO can cause issues and its max use is so small, its hardly worth it. I've not used powdered cinnamon as a colorant before so I can't really help there. I did use a tiny bit once along with clove and nutmeg to speckle a soap but it wasn't much more then a pinch. There are so any more option for natural colorants, I see no reason to mess with botanicals that could harm the skin.
Most spicy scent can cause trouble, same with many florals. Thats why its important to read the reviews before buying a new scent, so you know what to expect.


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## Sonya-m (Nov 24, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. I read afterwards that spicy scents can be a problem. 

I have purchased a cheap stick blender so will have another go. 

Does that recipe look sound or does the lye/water quantities need changing?


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## smeetree (Nov 24, 2014)

Sonya-m said:


> Does that recipe look sound or does the lye/water quantities need changing?



To me they look reasonable off hand, but run them through soapcal


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## Obsidian (Nov 24, 2014)

Your recipe is ok but I would find it quite drying, I would switch the coconut and palm around so its not so cleansing. Here is your recipe re-figured in soapcalc

http://www.evernote.com/shard/s216/...14417b73905e/2bbbaa98376bf91210ffe641d4cca9eb


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## new12soap (Nov 24, 2014)

I second and third everything everyone else has said, and would like to add that wooden utensils are not a good mix with soapmaking. The lye will eat it and you will end up with little splinters in your soap. Not fun, especially the ones small enough that you may not see them but they will still feel really sharp. Stick with heavy duty plastic, silicone, and stainless steel.


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## Sonya-m (Nov 24, 2014)

Thanks everyone. I guess I have lots to learn still. So I assume coconut oil is cleansing but can dry? If a soap is less cleansing will it still lather?


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## Obsidian (Nov 24, 2014)

Yes, coconut oil makes a cleansing soap and the more cleansing it is, the more oils it will wash off your skin making it dry. It will lather just fine with lower coconut, in fact you don't need coconut oil at all. Even a soap with a cleansing number of 0 will lather and clean you, you don't actually need lather for soap to work.

Here are a couple links that might help you out. http://www.thesoapdish.com/oil-properties-chart.htm 
http://home.windstream.net/familyjeans/propertiesofoils.html


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## lpstephy85 (Nov 24, 2014)

Sonya-m said:


> Thanks everyone. I guess I have lots to learn still. So I assume coconut oil is cleansing but can dry? If a soap is less cleansing will it still lather?




CO is wonderful applied directly to the skin but once it and lye join forces in high amounts the skin is not too found of it (minus the case of salt bars but I won't go there since you are just starting out). All soap cleans regardless of the larger but the higher your cleansing number, the more it will dry out the skin. A good medium is 17-20% CO


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## Sonya-m (Nov 24, 2014)

Thank you so much for the links. Surprised I can use lard - might be worth trying to keep my costs down whilst I master the art


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## Obsidian (Nov 24, 2014)

Lard is my favorite soaping oil ever. Its makes a hard, creamy awesome soap. You can replace the palm in your recipe with lard but make sure you run the new recipe through a lye calculator.


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## Susie (Nov 25, 2014)

I love lard in soap.  You just have no idea what a wonderful, luxurious soap it makes.  It must be tried to be believed.  The numbers on soapcalc just do not adequately convey the difference lard brings to soap.

Here's my current favorite recipe:

Lard-55%
Coconut oil-20%
Olive oil-20%
Castor oil-5%

I can buy all those oils at my local stores, so no shipping costs.  Very economical, and far, far better than the fancy oil recipes I came up with that cost twice as much to make.


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## Sonya-m (Nov 25, 2014)

Thanks Susie, I think I will give this one a go whilst I'm still learning as like you say it will keep the costs down so much! I won't mind so much if I encounter problems.


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## seven (Nov 25, 2014)

there is also an option to increase your superfat and keep the recipe as it is. you'll be amazed at how a slight increase/decrease of superfat can feel on the skin. i did not run your recipe thru soapcalc, how much is your current SF? with a 30% coconut, you'll probably want at least 7-8% SF. 

a proper cure time also matters. take a 4 weeks old soap and a 4 month old soap both to the shower, you'll see what i'm talking about


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## Sonya-m (Nov 25, 2014)

The recipe I used was 6% SF

Gosh I have so much to learn and am gonna have so much fun doing it


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## Sonya-m (Nov 25, 2014)

Another question, does this soap need to cure as CP usually would or is it usable now? And even if it can be used will I still benefit from leaving it a while? 

Here's a little pic of it too.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 26, 2014)

Cp is usable well before the end of the cure - depending on your definition of 'usable'. 

Safe - when it stops zapping. For cp, it can be between 24 to 72 hours depending on if it was cooled or not. For hp it's when it is finished cooking  

Ready for use - technically, once it is safe. But all soaps need a cure. A hp soap can be used directly from the slow cooker, but it won't be very good. 

I give all of my soaps a 4 week cure before anyone else uses them. I usually try an end piece at two weeks. I find that my hp bars need more of a cure than cp, most likely because of the water


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## cmzaha (Nov 26, 2014)

If it does not zap it is safe to use. HP needs curing as long or even longer than cp. Part of the curing process is the water evaporating. You soap will become milder and many times lather better after a cure of at least 1 month. I prefer curing all soap at least 90 days
Welcome to the addicting world of soapmaking


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