# Dual Lye For Liquid Soap



## defghijmiller7 (Oct 4, 2021)

I ordered KOH but got TONS of NaOH instead. The lye cannot be returned., and so I am determined to use up the NaOH for my liquid soap. I understand that I need to use KOH for liquid soap,  so I would like to use both. What percentage of each lye ve should I use to make clear liquid soap? Thank you for sharing!


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## ResolvableOwl (Oct 4, 2021)

Dual-lye liquid soap is advanced trickery. It's like doing a salt curve, just that you cannot react on the consistency, or adjust anything afterwards. Start with 98% KOH + 2% NaOH, not more – it still might be too much. Anything above this _might appear_ fine initially, but separate into a sticky, gooey slime after minutes … or hours … or weeks. YMMV, it depends on everything, in particular the soaping oils and dilution rates. That's why it is so hard to find dilution+thickening numbers for sodium salts (NaCl, NaOH, sodium citrate, grated up bar soap…) out there.

tl;dr: Keep NaOH out of liquid soap, unless you know EXACTLY what you do. LS is about the least efficient way to get rid of excess NaOH.

Which seller insists on not returning an order that has been so utterly wrong as shipping NaOH instead of KOH? I cannot imagine you really have no way to return it, or at least get the money back. Escalate it if possible.
If you're left with the NaOH, you might resell it, or gift/trade it with some other soapmaker (or other handicraft like baker, plumber, …) around you, or rethink if getting into bar soap might be an option for you as well. Look if cream soap or shave soap would be another option: recipe and technique-wise, they're not as far from LS as bar soap is, but quite some recipes make liberal use of NaOH.

By the way, welcome to SMF, @defghijmiller7 !


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## Íbera (Oct 4, 2021)

_"Which seller insists on not returning an order that has been so utterly wrong as shipping NaOH instead of KOH? I cannot imagine you really have no way to return it, or at least get the money back."_

Exactly, I can't understand it. If the order were made correctly and they made the mistake, they should fix the problem. Unless you ordered it wrongly, If I were you I would try to communicate with them asking for a solution.

By the way, if you want to make liquid soap with both lies, NaOH should be in the minimum amount and that way you'll have NaOH for years if it doesn't spoil before.
I have only made bar soaps with both lies with NaOH in higher amount. I hope you can come up with a great result. 

But I hope you can come to an understanding with the seller, hence you'll have the soap you're looking for.


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## Zany_in_CO (Oct 4, 2021)

defghijmiller7 said:


> I ordered KOH but got TONS of NaOH instead. The lye cannot be returned.


Was this your mistake or the supplier's?
I cannot in good conscience encourage making dual lye soap, i.e., adding KOH to NaOH hard bars OR adding NaOH to KOH LS without knowing your level of soapmaking experience and expertise.

*TIP:* When you have a moment, please go to the Introduction Forum and tell us as much as you care to share about yourself, but especially about your soap making experience. This will help us to help you when questions or problems arise.  

Before doing either, I strongly advise you to correct the mistake.
If the mistake was indeed the supplier's, and not yours, it would be helpful to know where you purchased the NaOH.


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## earlene (Oct 4, 2021)

Here are some youtube videos on making dual lye LS:

A shower gel that is 70%KOH & 30%NaOH:



Here is another dual lye soap made with primarily CO:



@Susie  makes dual lye LS *per this thread*, so she may come along and give you more information.


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## Zany_in_CO (Oct 4, 2021)

earlene said:


> @Susie makes dual lye LS *per this thread*, so she may come along and give you more information.


*Read what Susie says later in that thread** *


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## Susie (Oct 5, 2021)

I found no appreciable difference in the liquid soap with NaOH. It is not worth your time to try it. Trust me when I say I made liquid soaps from 5%-45% NaOH with no improvement. If you need to use NaOH, I would suggest bar soap and maybe pretzel or bagel making. Of course, you can also clean your drains. 

I know of no reputable sellers that would not allow an exchange in your case. Just be doubly careful next time you order.


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## gloopygloop (Oct 5, 2021)

I do like NaOH in my LS but it is very dependant on the oils used, no one size fits all, certain oils LS especially with an appreciable amount of OO just do not need any extra oomph to be a nice consistency after dilution once you get the proportions right, but some do, particularly high or 100% CO LS. The addition od around 30% NaOH gives a much better consistency if making 100% CO laundry type LS IMHO.


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## Zany_in_CO (Oct 5, 2021)

gloopygloop said:


> The addition od around 30% NaOH gives a much better consistency if making 100% CO laundry type LS IMHO.


Really? I make 100% Coconut Oil laundry soap and the consistency is fine -- from when it's first made until the last drop. I don't do much laundry these days. I'm guessing a gallon lasts about a year, unless I use it up in foamers, which I often do.

I'm curious to know if adding 30% NaOH would be lovely at first, but make it's way to solid in 6 months - 1 year later??? 

I had that exact experience with the one time I diluted 8 oz. hard bar shreds with 8 X 8 oz. water. It was fine initially, but when I found a bottle under the bathroom sink a year later, it was solid... no movement at all.


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## gloopygloop (Oct 5, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Really? I make 100% Coconut Oil laundry soap and the consistency is fine -- from when it's first made until the last drop. I don't do much laundry these days. I'm guessing a gallon lasts about a year, unless I use it up in foamers, which I often do.
> 
> I'm curious to know if adding 30% NaOH would be lovely at first, but make it's way to solid in 6 months - 1 year later???
> 
> I had that exact experience with the one time I diluted 8 oz. hard bar shreds with 8 X 8 oz. water. It was fine initially, but when I found a bottle under the bathroom sink a year later, it was solid... no movement at all.


No mine has never re solidified up again, my100% CO does tend to come out more watery than I would like, with some clever tweaking around I have managed to get something agreeable with all KoH but in general not. By adding the NaOH it gives me a nice consistency, and this is only for my own use and not to sell, it doesn't give such a clear soap I dont think but I like it much more. I have had some for well over a year in the past and not had it do anything peculiar thank goodness. I have not had success with any gums as they have always ended up at the bottom over time.


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