# PayPal Dispute - I'm stunned! Is This Normal??



## cerelife (Sep 8, 2021)

Backstory: This article kept popping on my FB feed about how a company had reverse engineered a vial of perfume oil found years ago in Egypt and now they've created their own trademarked blend of oils using the components they found with the suggestion that this _could_ be Cleopatra's signature perfume oil blend. The notes were white lotus, cardamom, myrrh, and olive oil. I was intrigued.
Before you start rolling your eyes, YEP I _*knew*_ this was a sales pitch! But I loved the romanticism of it all and I liked all of the scent notes, so I thought "How bad can it be?" It was a little pricey - my total cost for 10mL was $40, but I was intrigued and OK with paying for my curiosity. I've spent money of sillier things than this!
I get the package and it's a generic 'Ideal' brand bottle of Lotus fragrance oil. The same stuff that you can buy at the dollar store and the shady convenience stores - meant for diffusers/potpourri/vacuum cleaner bags (according to the box). Also, the box clearly states that it is NOT to be used on skin.
So I email the company to tell them of the mistake/request the correct product and get a reply that they've contacted their supplier and that this is an equivalent product to *their* oil. Ummm, not even close!
Many emails back and forth and it's obvious that I've been scammed - they refuse to give a refund/ want me to pay return shipping to Malaysia (even though the return address on my package is from within the US) in order to ship me what I actually ordered/ etc. I mean If they had sent me the oil I ordered and I didn't like it, then that was on me. But this was a total 'bait and switch' scam and I'd had enough.
I almost just let this go...chalking up the $40 to my own stupidity. But the more I thought about the audacity of this company the angrier it made me; so I filed a PayPal dispute. I included pics of the product I received along with the website description of what I ordered. Screenshots of the emails back and forth...with an offer to forward the actual emails to PayPal if needed.
Today I got an email from PayPal stating that I MUST file a report with a law enforcement agency within 10 days to continue with this investigation!! Are you freaking kidding me??? They seriously want me to file a police report for this nonsense?? 
I'm just *mind-blown* at this point...I don't want this company to continue to cheat people, but the cops have far bigger things on their plate than this silliness.
Any thoughts?


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## earlene (Sep 8, 2021)

It may be a bother, but I'd probably go ahead and do the police report. Sure, it seems rather stupid that they are requiring you to do so, but if that's the only way to get your money back AND expect any repercussions for the seller, I think it's worth the trouble.  Hopefully there will be repercussions for the seller after there is an official report filed. The fact that the product was mailed within the US might also constiture mail fraud, so perhaps you can also file a report with the USPS if it went US mail.


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## Marsi (Sep 8, 2021)

I agree it is worth the bother

the fraud might be small for you
scale it to many people
and it is not small

insurance companies make the same requirement
if you want to be reimbursed for a theft
you need to report the theft

the police will determine how much attention they will give to your report


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## glendam (Sep 8, 2021)

I am curious how long it had been from the time of the purchase to your report to Facebook.  Over 30 days?   I had never heard of them asking for a police report.  I wonder if it is a new thing.


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## Cat&Oak (Sep 8, 2021)

I think you should. We were scammed on a giant weave blanket over $100 one time on Facebook. My husband let it go but now I won't buy anything on Facebook because of that and this hurts the reputation of good honest sellers. Maybe they can close down this d*&^%[email protected]# that scammed you


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## Carly B (Sep 8, 2021)

Marsi said:


> I agree it is worth the bother
> 
> the fraud might be small for you
> scale it to many people
> ...



Probably not much.  Years ago, a charge showed up on my credit card for about $100 for flower delivery in Florida (I live in Maryland). Called the credit card company, and they said call and report the theft.  We did, but it was just a formality---they said they couldn't do anything about it since it was in Florida, and it wasn't a high enough value to get Florida police involved.  The fact that they had an address to go on (where the flowers were delivered) didn't matter.  Wasn't worth anyone's time. 

ETA: I've had to involve PayPal in two disputes, the one was with a vendor on Wish (first and last time for that site for me), and the other was for a supplier whose name I found on the forum.  The forum supplier wouldn't answer my emails or messages on the site, but the minute Paypal sent a note, they contacted me.  The first one, the Wish vendor, took more time, but I have no complaints about Paypal.  I was actually impressed.


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## cerelife (Sep 9, 2021)

Thanks for the replies! I'll file a report with both the local police and the post office. If nothing else, maybe this can save other people from this nonsense.


glendam said:


> I am curious how long it had been from the time of the purchase to your report to Facebook.  Over 30 days?   I had never heard of them asking for a police report.  I wonder if it is a new thing.


I sent an email to the company the day after I received the package and we went back and forth for maybe 5 days. I filed a dispute with PayPal a few days later. You know, I didn't even think to report this to Facebook...I probably should do that as well!


Carly B said:


> ETA: I've had to involve PayPal in two disputes, the one was with a vendor on Wish (first and last time for that site for me), and the other was for a supplier whose name I found on the forum.  The forum supplier wouldn't answer my emails or messages on the site, but the minute Paypal sent a note, they contacted me.  The first one, the Wish vendor, took more time, but I have no complaints about Paypal.  I was actually impressed.


I've only filed one other complaint with PayPal and that was several years ago when The ScentWorks was going out of business. I spent a small fortune stocking up on my favorite scents that were still in stock on the website. When I got my order I was missing pounds of FO with a note on the packing slip saying "out of stock" and I was sad but I understood that they probably just hadn't had time for stock updates. Then I got my monthly bill from PayPal and not only had they charged me for the missing pounds of FO, they also charged me twice for the entire order!! This was an overcharge of several hundred dollars and emails to the company were returned as errors due to a non-existent email address / calls were never returned. I filed a dispute with PayPal and they couldn't contact them either so they reversed the charges for the appropriate amount of money. 
That's why I was really surprised that they're requiring a police report for a $40 dispute. I do know that the seller responded to the complaint since PayPal is very good at keeping you up to date on what's going on with the process. I would LOVE to know what was in that response that prompted the requirement for a police report!??


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## glendam (Sep 9, 2021)

cerelife said:


> You know, I didn't even think to report this to Facebook...I probably should do that as well!


I meant to type Paypal actually, but I guess it is a happy accident, you should definitely report them to fb if you can.  I know my husband has reported transactions done through the marketplace but I guess that is different, but regardless, I would try.


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## cerelife (Sep 9, 2021)

earlene said:


> The fact that the product was mailed within the US might also constiture mail fraud, so perhaps you can also file a report with the USPS if it went US mail.


Thanks for the idea! I will absolutely file a report with USPS as well.
The last message from the seller was kind of the tipping point for me. I was almost ready to just let it go because it wasn't worth the aggravation, but then they sent me this bonkers email about how my purchase didn't qualify for a return or refund per their policy (it most certainly DID!), but since I was such a valued customer, they would allow a return (no refund) but I would have to pay the return shipping to Malaysia and when they received the package THEN they would send the correct product. But since the return shipping would be so expensive, they recommended that I accept a 15% refund and keep the oil that they had sent me.
I don't think so. This dollar store 10mL bottle of oil arrived in a USPS Priority Mail envelope from a WA return address.


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## Kimimarie84 (Sep 9, 2021)

This is how a lot of scammers work these days. They describe a product, you buy it, they send you the wrong item, and then tell you to send it back to an overseas address in order to get the return - basically the exact situation described above. They’re hoping you won’t bother with it, and you think it’s “whatever” because it’s just $40. It may just be $40 to you, but they’re making thousands and thousands of dollars this way. There may be others who have filed disputes with PayPal, so a police report may be helpful if they’ve done enough scamming to go over a certain dollar amount, which would escalate the type of fraud that it is. Perhaps? Either way, it’s your $40 they stole from you, it’s wrong, and they shouldn’t be allowed to get away with it. I’d do everything I could to get the money back; it’s the principle of the thing.


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## Obsidian (Sep 9, 2021)

I had something similar happen to me with a shark toy I bought for my grandkid. It came from china and was not worth the $40 I spent.

I emailed them and they offered me a $7 reimbursement. I filed with paypal and they didn't help at all. In the end, the company agreed to a full refund if I sent the package back to china. 
Not what I wanted at all, not even remotely worth it. I should have taken the $


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## Catscankim (Sep 12, 2021)

I saw the exact ad for the Cleopatra perfume and I was almost also intrigued...

I saw another ad for these garden fairy sculptures, at around $40. I kept seeing the ads and looking at the websites (not realizing that there were multiple sites), and finally succumbed. 

The fairies on the website were almost life-sized. I assumed that it was a camera trick and I accepted the fact that I would probably get something smaller.

I waited a week, then another and another..sent paypal a dispute and got my money back right away...but I also did my research that I forwarded to them, and it turns out that there are actual garden fairy sculptures that are probably worth hundreds, if not thousands of dollars by this guy in England that makes them himself...cannot remember his name, I will find it. But his website states that he is aware of the knockoffs. His sculptures are amazing and they are using his web pics as their own on the knockoff sites...even pictures of him as the artist!!

I swear it was less than a week later that I finally received my fairy in the mail...A battered up box that made its way from China. It is dollar store quality and is rusted now. I don't apologize that I got my money back. I waited weeks for them and they are not what are on the website. CORRECTION...websites, because I see these being sold over and over on different sites. I always jump in the comments that they are a scam. Lesson learned: I will never buy anything from a website on facebook again.

Sorry you got scammed. I got scammed too. I just try to pay it forward and warn ppl in the comments that it is a scam and hope nobody sends them more money.


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## [email protected] (Sep 12, 2021)

Sorry you got scammed.  Sucks that there are so many companies out there like that.  Where I live you can do a police report online so as to not have to call a cop out to your house and waste time.  Maybe you could see if you have that option? Just a thought.


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## Professor Bernardo (Sep 13, 2021)

@cerelife - you were probably dealing with the "First Level" customer care person.  Much of PayPal's customer care is based off-shore, usually the Philippines or Malaysia.  I know this from personal experience. 
1.  Call them again and politely demand to speak to a supervisor.  Don't let the person sway you otherwise.  Keep being polite and keep asking for supervisor.
2.  If the supervisor is unable to assist you or is unwilling, ask the case to be elevated. 
3.  In addition, go the the PayPal Dispute Resolution Center on the website.  Here is the URL to that page:  Problem with a purchase
4.  Be aware that disputes must be opened within 180 days of your payment date, and that you and the seller will have 20 days to work things out. 

These above methods HAVE ALWAYS worked for me.  Please try them out and see if you get a different result from what you have been receiving.

I have a long story about an issue I had with a vendor where I purchased a vacuum tube Hi-Fi stereo amplifier via PayPal Credit.  In the end, I came out on top in a significant financial way.  A $410 purchase only wound up costing me $149.00 (local amp repair shop).  Basically the seller NEVER responded to PayPal Credit's inquiries about why my amp was being reported as defective and in need of repair... so PayPal back-charged the vendor and refunded me my purchase price.  
What happened is the RH channel after about 40 days of purchase went weak and was putting out about 2/3 the output of the LH channel.  I asked the vendor for a replacement unit since they stated they had a "ONE YEAR WARRANTY" on the unit.  They insinuated that I was an imbecile and didn't know what I was talking about audio-wise and electronics-wise.  This went on for about a week, then I went to PayPal dispute resolution center.  I claimed the unit wasn't what was advertised since the RH channel went weak.  PayPal Credit knew and understood this.  All of this was in written form on record at PayPal.  After two weeks of waiting for the vendor to respond to PayPal Credit's inquiries they issued me a full refund!  Only after all of this occurred did the vendor again contact me to see if I would accept a 50% refund on my purchase.  Hah!  You had your chance!  So Sorry Charlie!


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## TheGecko (Sep 13, 2021)

Catscankim said:


> Lesson learned: I will never buy anything from a website on facebook again.



Not all FB advertisers are bad companies. A couple of years back I succumbed to two T-shirts and a coffee mug. One of the T-Shirts and Mug were custom printed and I received both sooner than expected. The second T-shirt was an off-the-rack deal and it was a major PITA. Two weeks went by with no shipping notice so I checked the 'status update'...not even processed yet. I sent an inquiry to the company...no reply, but the 'status update' changed to something about the 'unexpected volume of orders blah blah blah'. I sent a second inquiry after another week...still no replay, no change in 'status update'. Waiting another week and filed a PayPal dispute.

Now the whole purpose of using PayPal instead of my debit card is that it is supposed to protect ME...the consumer, but instead it was more like they were protecting the seller. It took a week before I was allowed to submit my documentation...proof of payment, proof of correspondence, screen shots of the 'status updates' (double date & time stamped). After two weeks they said they heard from the company and my shipment was delayed and that they would allow the company a week to ship the item out. I said 'no', that I had ordered this item in early May for Father's Day and it was now late July and I no longer wanted the item, I just wanted my money back. Exactly seven days from PayPal's email, I received a shipping notice from the company and finally received the item nine days later.

While the t-shirt material was of a mid-range quality, the printing started crackling after the first wash.  It was completely crackled by the fourth wash and was flaking off.  Within six months, hubby had a plain black t-shirt.


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## cerelife (Sep 24, 2021)

*Update*
I printed off all of the documentation that I had sent to PayPal and took that and the package to the Police Station to file a report. I was told that this wasn't a police matter and that PayPal should take care of this. One of the officers gave me the same advice as @Professor Bernardo to call and politely demand to speak to a supervisor if they denied my claim. Pretty much the same scenario at the Post Office.
So I emailed PayPal with this information along with a polite reminder that this kind of situation is exactly why people use their service - purchase protection from scam artists.
Yesterday I was pleasantly surprised to find that PayPal issued me a full refund for the purchase price and shipping cost!


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## Professor Bernardo (Sep 24, 2021)

cerelife said:


> *Update*
> Yesterday I was pleasantly surprised to find that PayPal issued me a full refund for the purchase price and shipping cost!



 I am glad it all worked out for you.  Too bad that you wasted time with the police and post office.  However, your persistence paid off and the net result is the important thing.  I have found that contacting them via phone usually works faster and easier, at least for me.  I do list the issue on the resolution center page though for a "hard copy" for future reference.


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## Susie (Sep 24, 2021)

I know this is over for you, but for everyone else that might have a problem going forward, my best advice is to document every call with time, date, person spoken to (even if you can only get the employee number), and what they said. Ask for their supervisor if you don't get the desired outcome. And their supervisor, and theirs. Everyone has a boss. And if you do not get the outcome you should, type all of that out on the "contact us" portion of their website. Wait at least two business days. If you hear nothing, post on Facebook or other social media a brief description of your bad experience. Those companies pay people to monitor the social media. It gets incredibly fast responses once you post there.


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## TheGecko (Sep 24, 2021)

So glad that it worked out for you.


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## SoapLover1 (Sep 25, 2021)

PayPal is not Customer Friendly when it comes to shady vendors and their business practices. I’ve had the same issue and they did basically Nothing! I Filed a Complaint after not receiving a Soap Stamp I ordered and communication stopped after receiving Payment. After the vendor refused to communicate with PayPal, they asked me to file a Complaint! Isn’t that what I did weeks ago?!!! I decided to go through my Credit Card Company and they reversed the charges, immediately! I suggest that is the way to go verses going through PayPal if you want immediate results!


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## earlene (Sep 25, 2021)

Although I have only had one incident where I had problems with a PayPal paid product, my experience was satisfactory.

But I agree that I have very good results when I contact my credit card company for disputes such as this.  Even when I use my ATM card for online purchases, my bank has always reversed the charges immediately.


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## TheGecko (Sep 25, 2021)

SoapLover1 said:


> PayPal is not Customer Friendly when it comes to shady vendors and their business practices.



That's because the money would end up coming out of PayPal's pocket.


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## Professor Bernardo (Sep 25, 2021)

A lot of people have issues with PayPal because they don't go through the correct steps or procedure.  You must go to the resolution center in addition to talking to someone on the phone.  For me, it has been the most efficient and speedy process yet, beside calling and speaking to an agent.  Emails... not so much, resolution center... YES!

For anyone who's interested for future reference:  What is the Resolution Center?

From that page you can do the following:

The Resolution Center is a part of your PayPal account where you can:

Report a problem if a product or service wasn’t delivered, or wasn’t as described.
Report unauthorized transactions.
Report a billing issue such as duplicate charges or a wrong amount charged.
Communicate with a buyer/seller to try to solve a dispute.
Escalate a dispute to a PayPal claim if you want us to investigate it and decide the outcome.
Check the status of a claim or respond to us.
Resolve an account limitation.
*The Resolution Center is only accessible on a web browser, not the PayPal app.

*


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## Lin19687 (Sep 25, 2021)

I've not used Paypal for years.  I have the account but took off my CC and bank account info so that if it is hacked then nothing is lost.
Paypal also made me jump through a bunch of hoops over something that was never sent.  Burnt ONCE was all it took for me.  I only kept it as I was going to do CC sales for people for soap but then they started to up the rates.  I just stayed with Square.
I decided that if I wanted to get crappy things and have them show up super late then I will just order from Amazooly


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## Kiti Williams (Sep 26, 2021)

I have had this problem as well.  PP received info from the wrong vendor and closed my complaint, twice.  5 needle threaders are not the same as an expanding shelf!  I like just using the one CC for internet purchases now.


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## CatahoulaBubble (Sep 27, 2021)

I kind of had the same situation happen. I bought two 8 foot dragon skeletons for a really good price, too good to be honest. When I got the package it was 2 - 6inch skeleton dragons that took 8 weeks to get here. Thankfully I had screen shots of what I ordered and I filed a dispute with PayPal.  I did get a refund but it took a bit of back and forth and a few escalations to get my money back. I won't order off of facebook anymore.


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