# Avocado oil questions



## Cutetaxguy (Jul 19, 2019)

I tries regular internet search and I tried searching this forum but I can’t find my answer. 
  Will  replacing  Olive oil with avocado oil shorten  The length of time it takes for the soap to harden? I was using a 40% olive oil i was hoping dropping the Oilve to 10% would help me out with time

What I did find was it seems like a people like avocado oil better than the olive any ways as for skin feel


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## Maaki (Jul 19, 2019)

Hey bro. I have actually made lengthy post with my experiments using avocado oil instead of olive oil. However avocado oil makes a very soft bar, so I mix it with coconut oil and cocoa butter in high percentages to make it harder and will actually try incorporating waxes since my bars dont tend to last too long. I have noticed that it hardens in about 2-3 weeks, with an ideal curing time of 2 months. Given my experience I wouldnt go above 60% of AO. I agree, avocado feels awesome.


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## Cutetaxguy (Jul 20, 2019)

Maaki said:


> Hey bro. I have actually made lengthy post with my experiments using avocado oil instead of olive oil. However avocado oil makes a very soft bar, so I mix it with coconut oil and cocoa butter in high percentages to make it harder and will actually try incorporating waxes since my bars dont tend to last too long. I have noticed that it hardens in about 2-3 weeks, with an ideal curing time of 2 months. Given my experience I wouldnt go above 60% of AO. I agree, avocado feels awesome.



I have bees wax ,steric acid , pine rosin, and beef tallow all on hand. I will put more attention to hardness next time , but There is olive oil , coconut oil and kokum butter in this batch already . I also ran across a tip about replacing some of your lye water with vinager to produce a harder bar of soap. I have not tried it yet but I think I can get around the soft issue. Thank you for the information on softness and hardening time frame


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## cmzaha (Jul 20, 2019)

Actually, 100% Avocado Oil makes a very hard bar but no lather, no slime like 100% OO and feels nice, but will only lather with a bath pouf.  I like Avo in soap at the 20%-25% range. It gives a nice feel but adds nothing to lather. My 100% Avo was poured on 12/31/17 soap so they are well aged.  Just so you know I make a lot of avocado oil soaps adding in puree at times.


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## Cin (Jul 20, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> Actually, 100% Avocado Oil makes a very hard bar but no lather, no slime like 100% OO and feels nice, but will only lather with a bath pouf.  I like Avo in soap at the 20%-25% range. It gives a nice feel but adds nothing to lather. My 100% Avo was poured on 12/31/17 soap so they are well aged.  Just so you know I make a lot of avocado oil soaps adding in puree at times.


I've read that soaps should be used by the earliest oil expiration date because of rancidity, and in the case of avocado oil that's about a year once opened.
What are people's experience with their aged bars of soap?

I have a salt bar that has 10% avocado oil in it.  Everyone says it's better with age, but how long should I wait before risking DOS?


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## shunt2011 (Jul 20, 2019)

Cin said:


> I've read that soaps should be used by the earliest oil expiration date because of rancidity, and in the case of avocado oil that's about a year once opened.
> What are people's experience with their aged bars of soap?
> 
> I have a salt bar that has 10% avocado oil in it.  Everyone says it's better with age, but how long should I wait before risking DOS?



I’ve got a couple salt soaps that are 7 years old that had avocado in them.  They are still perfectly fine though the scent has faded.  I use avocado in a couple other recipes and have no issues either.


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## cmzaha (Jul 20, 2019)

I have never had dos with AVO and use it often.


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## DeeAnna (Jul 20, 2019)

Don't get too rigid about the expiration date for the oils -- that date may or may not have any bearing on the soap. Expiration dates on longer-lived foods like fats are generally suggestions, not requirements.

Your nose and eyes are the best resources when deciding if a soap has honestly reached the limit of its shelf life. Or the oils and fats for that matter.

Rancidity (DOS) in soap can start within a few months or after a few years. If the soap smells "off", it's rancid. Other signs of rancidity that vary somewhat are the gradual change in color to dark orange or yellow color either overall or in spots and/or the development of a slimy surface texture.

There are many triggers for rancidity in addition to the shelf life of the fats from which your soap is made. And there are additives -- antioxidants and chelators -- that can lengthen the shelf life.


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## Cutetaxguy (Jul 21, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> Actually, 100% Avocado Oil makes a very hard bar but no lather, no slime like 100% OO and feels nice, but will only lather with a bath pouf.  I like Avo in soap at the 20%-25% range. It gives a nice feel but adds nothing to lather. My 100% Avo was poured on 12/31/17 soap so they are well aged.  Just so you know I make a lot of avocado oil soaps adding in puree at times.




I have been adding avocado fruit as well  for some, right. At the moment my avocado oil is about 30% . 40% for the vegan version.



Cin said:


> I've read that soaps should be used by the earliest oil expiration date because of rancidity, and in the case of avocado oil that's about a year once opened.
> What are people's experience with their aged bars of soap?
> 
> I have a salt bar that has 10% avocado oil in it.  Everyone says it's better with age, but how long should I wait before risking DOS?



That’s also a concern for me.  I have not been doing this very long. It would hate to find out I have DOS once they are ready to show off.


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## linne1gi (Jul 21, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> I have never had dos with AVO and use it often.


The only time I got DOS was when I used 25% Rice Bran Oil.


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## cmzaha (Jul 21, 2019)

Cutetaxguy said:


> I have been adding avocado fruit as well  for some, right. At the moment my avocado oil is about 30% . 40% for the vegan version.


Make sure your avocado puree is pureed well. Chunks of Avocado can mold and/or spoil. In my opinion of years of using Avocado oil, I would not use 40%, unless using at least 20% Co or Pko


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## Cutetaxguy (Jul 21, 2019)

One version I have avocado oil at 39% and coconut oil at 19% and palm oil at 12%

  Other has avocado at 30% and has coconut at 16%

Yes I believe the purée is well mashed.  I do add the oatmeal flower , almond cream and purée all together and add in after light trace and continue to cook until Vaseline stage.   
   When I use the pot scrapings as a test it lathers up very nice. Has a silky feel and dose not leave my hands feeling at all dry

I am having troubles getting my lye at the correct levels. I’m not passing the zap test. Even had a 5% super fat and already at mass potato phase and I’m not passing The zap test. I have read that avocado oil can be 4 to 9% unSaponifiable.  The first time was a couple days ago and I thought maybe I just Messed up the weight of something or other. But now I think it’s the avocado oil

Edit:
  I Have increased my oil weight by about 10% and cooked anothe 25 minutes.  I’m still not passing the zap test. I pulled out my pH strips in my pH is at 11


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## lenarenee (Jul 21, 2019)

Let's check a couple of things; did you run your recipe through a lye calculator such as soapcalc.net?

Is your scale accurate?

Are you still cooking your soap right now?  The phases of the cooking process are fickle, some people never see all the phases - or the phases will look different so you can't make a definitive judgment by what it looks like.  So... you may have just zap tested too early.

Also, it's possible to confuse a slightly zappy soap feeling with the taste of some unpleasant high pH soap.  How much experience do you have with zap testing?


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## KristaY (Jul 21, 2019)

Have you repeated the zap on the batch you made a couple days ago? I lean toward doing the zap test too early. I'm not a seasoned HPer but make several batches a year and don't zap test at mashed potatoes.


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## Steve85569 (Jul 21, 2019)

Zap = licking a 9 volt battery.
If you are getting zapped you KNOW. ( don't even ask)


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## DeeAnna (Jul 21, 2019)

And remember a zap is an immediate sensation, like a static shock. If you are asking yourself "is it a zap or not" or if the sensation takes a short while to develop, it's most likely not a zap.


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## Cutetaxguy (Jul 21, 2019)

I found the mistake 

I was not compensating for the almond cream which I can’t find a sap value for anywhere

OK this is driving me bonkers. I am now making a second batch for today without any cream and have the same problem my pH is at 11 I don’t get it



DeeAnna said:


> And remember a zap is an immediate sensation, like a static shock. If you are asking yourself "is it a zap or not" or if the sensation takes a short while to develop, it's most likely not a zap.



Oh it’s a full on zap attack, and I can notice it getting milder as I add more oils



KristaY said:


> Have you repeated the zap on the batch you made a couple days ago? I lean toward doing the zap test too early. I'm not a seasoned HPer but make several batches a year and don't zap test at mashed potatoes.




I have a pack of ph test strips. I went back and tested every batch I have made over the past few days and they all are at a 9 ph. 
  I don’t know what is different today. 
  ( maybe I need to change batteries in my scale)



lenarenee said:


> Let's check a couple of things; did you run your recipe through a lye calculator such as soapcalc.net?
> 
> Is your scale accurate?
> 
> ...



I have a small open wound on my thumb. The lye burned my wound like all heck. That’s what led me to test the soap.  
 My next guess is the scales. My soap is never ph heave after the mash potatoe phase until these last couple of days


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## lenarenee (Jul 22, 2019)

Yep, small wound on the thumb means active lye.  Hope you rinsed with lots of cool water. (not vinegar)

I've never heard of almond cream; is it almond milk?  almond butter?  Usually those items contain extra fats - which would help eat up more lye, and reduce the chance of having a lye heavy soap, so that may not be the problem.

The pH will NOT tell you if the soap is lye heavy. You don't need to test the ph at all.  (I mentioned pH earlier because a high pH is harsh on the tongue.  I don't agree with those who say a zap is a zap - I think there are degrees of zappiness. Plus, I have trouble telling very raw fresh salt soap batter from slightly zappy because the salt and pH have their own zing!)

The scales are suspect.

What about the oils themselves?  Some expensive oils like olive, avocado can be adulterated with cheaper oils that can through off the sap values. ( You used a 5% sf, so it would take quite a lot of adulterated oils to run through all that.)

You didn't mention where the recipe came from, and if you ran it through a lye calculator.  Even if you used a recipe given to you from another soapmaker - it needs to be run through the calculator. 

If you did use a lye calculator - check the settings for the lye. Is there one for the purity level of the lye that might be set incorrectly, or the calculations programmed into the system are based on (for example) a lye that's 94% pure, but your lye beads might actually be really fresh and 99% pure.

So sorry about your thumb! Take good care of it - lye burns can go though all the layers of the skin and take a long time to heal.


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## DeeAnna (Jul 22, 2019)

I think there are degrees of zap too, but the zap sensation, however strong or mild it might be, is immediate for me. That immediacy is the common denominator.


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## Cutetaxguy (Jul 26, 2019)

The scales were calabrated and were correct. 
  The recipe is of my own making and ran through “SoapLab” lye calculator. A calculator I have been using successfully for several recipes now. I have never used a pre established recipe. All self formulated and this is the first time I have had any lye issues.  Lye purity is set at 100% Been using red devil lye ,
  As to counterfeit oils ......well that I have no defense to. I’m not an oil’s guy and need to relie on proper labels. I still have yet to solve the lye issue but have established that if i add an additional 10 % of total oil weight in coconut oil the problem seems to correct.  Source of problem remains a frustrating mystery. Not really sure how the soap will turn out. I fear my last several batches may be a complete failure , and this is just as I’m actually getting interesed customers.  A bit ironic and even more frustrating. 
  I have ran out of both lye and avocado oil. I also make sage smudge sticks and sold 2 today. This will allow me to buy some more lye at least. I do make a salt scrub bar that is getting attention. Maybe I can focus on those for a bit and just hope these trun out okay. I really thought I was finally getting the hang of this. Then this all happened

( I can’t seem to get the quotes function to work ....sigh ....this is to Deanna)

 Though this is my first experience with getting zapped it dose fit the discription of what is discribed as being zapped.  The only reason I did the zap test was because when the soap touched my small open wound it burned like ....starts with H and rhythms with hell... this led me to also ph test. As I added small amounts of  coconut oil to the batch and with each addition the. zapping became less and the ph  correspondingly dropped.  At an additional 10% of oil weight the zapping stopped and I had a 9 ph   I was hot processing and just near gel phase when all this started.


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## lenarenee (Jul 26, 2019)

The labels on oil bottles often don't tell the whole story - and legally so in some cases.  Cosmetic grade oils are one example as well - they can be cut up to a certain percentage but still labeled as simply one oil.

The soap lab calculator is one you've used all along? 

I'm at a loss as to why you've had these problems now that it seems you did everything correctly. 10% of oil weight is a considerable amount to need to add to reduce the zap (unless you zap tested too early).  I hope somebody else comes up with an idea.


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## cmzaha (Jul 27, 2019)

Cutetaxguy said:


> Not really sure how the soap will turn out. I fear my last several batches may be a complete failure , and this is just as I’m actually getting interesed customers.  A bit ironic and even more frustrating.
> d


Please do not even consider giving away or selling soap until you really know how to make proper soap. If your weights are correct and you have the proper numbers from a good lye calc you should not have to add in another 10% oil. There is no problem with AVO in soap. I use it a lot and I superfat very low, even at a 0% superfat I will not get a zappy soap.


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## Cutetaxguy (Jul 27, 2019)

I may have ( only just a maybe I mind you) discovered part of of problem. At least with the first lye issue batch ( only 2 batches, but one was a big 8 lb batch) .
  I am making a salt scrub today. I wanted or fancy up the ingredients but switching to pink Himalayan salt. As I’m measuring my oils I discover a coffee cup with about 3 fingers full of beef tallow . Now how did that get there ?!?!?
  Fist guess is for some reason or another I did not add it to my batch, although I remember weighing out the tallow and I don’t remember ever using a coffee cup . In any case it needs to at least be concidered. But dose not solve mystery batch # 2
  I think at this point fake oil is my main suspect.  This of course takes all the blame off me.....unless you remember that coffee cup of fat


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## shunt2011 (Jul 27, 2019)

Also, Red Devil Lye isn’t 100%. So you will have some SF with that as well.  Even if you had a 0% SF you would have some just the same.  There’s something else going on.  Ignore PH strips. They are useless for the most part. I’ve not heard of the lye calculator you are using. You may want to try the one here or Soapee or Soapcalc.net.   See if it gives you relatively the same measurements. 

Final suggestion, stop making large batches until you know what you are doing and find a recipe you like.  8 lbs is a lot if you don’t like it or can’t save it.  1-2 lbs is adequate as a beginner.


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## Cutetaxguy (Jul 27, 2019)

I thank you for your input and could do without the  Chastising next time please

Haw !!!! I remember why the coffee cup of tallow was set aside !! 
 I had just dumped in the tallow and then used the cut to scoop some out to mix some additive in before adding it to the batch.  Company showed up and I did not want to have it messed with so I put it aside to protect it ....and then apparently forgot all about it

I do know what I’m doing and my soap are awesome  

Period


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## cmzaha (Jul 27, 2019)

Cutetaxguy said:


> I do know what I’m doing and my soap are awesome
> 
> Period


Sorry, it does not sound like it when you cannot get soap to quit zapping or you think it is zapping.  So how can they be awesome?


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## Cutetaxguy (Jul 27, 2019)

So the absolute only way possible way to make a mistake is to have no idea what your doing ?? That’s weird

I did not post my resume . I posted to seek input I had maybe over looked or advise I may have missed. I did not realize I had to detail my entire life so the you would feel comfortable with my skill lever as to appropriately Lecture me instead of provide insight or advice

I stand by my statements, and I have no intention of justifying myself to someone who can only feel self worth when judging someone’s entire life based on one request for help. White I may point out you did not do. Your soul motive was to talk down to someone you never meet or talked to before. I am sorry you have no control in your own life and feel better by putting other people down. I’m fairly sure they have medication for people like you

To respond to the question of almond cream. 
  I must add a correction it is almond creamer, not cream. 
  It is made from almond milk. Dairy free. Delicious. 

I assume a few you will want to judge me on this minor typo , and even  chastise me for attempting to classify it as minor  
  Feel free


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## Kiti Williams (Jul 27, 2019)

Cutetaxguy said:


> To respond to the question of almond cream.
> I must add a correction it is almond creamer, not cream.
> It is made from almond milk. Dairy free. Delicious.
> 
> ...




  I will not judge you.  My soaps are all SF, but I don't get any zp from them.  I use CP only, as HP is kinda confusing.  I read a recipe that said to cook the HP for 4 minuets, this did not sound like a long time.  I am also not sure how much soap this makes.  I think they are all "sample" size soaps.


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## cmzaha (Jul 27, 2019)

Cutetaxguy said:


> So the absolute only way possible way to make a mistake is to have no idea what your doing ?? That’s weird
> 
> I did not post my resume . I posted to seek input I had maybe over looked or advise I may have missed. I did not realize I had to detail my entire life so the you would feel comfortable with my skill lever as to appropriately Lecture me instead of provide insight or advice
> 
> I stand by my statements, and I have no intention of justifying myself to someone who can only feel self worth when judging someone’s entire life based on one request for help. White I may point out you did not do. Your soul motive was to talk down to someone you never meet or talked to before. I am sorry you have no control in your own life and feel better by putting other people down. I’m fairly sure they have medication for people like you


If this is pointed at me. First off I did answer the original post about Avo Oil. You are the one that mentioned it being zappy and you did not know why so just dumped in more oil. That makes one think you do not know what you are doing. I am not judging you, I really do not care what you do, but people that sell and give away bad soap make it hard for the folks that do sell. You would be surprised how many will complain that the soap they purchased was terrible. Putting you down, nope, judging you nope, just saying know what you are making before selling. It can take years to create fantastic soap. BTW, I have a lot of control of my life thank you very much for the concern. Bye Bye


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## linne1gi (Jul 28, 2019)

Cutetaxguy said:


> I have a pack of ph test strips. I went back and tested every batch I have made over the past few days and they all are at a 9 ph.
> I don’t know what is different today.
> ( maybe I need to change batteries in my scale)


Just for future, pH strips are notoriously inaccurate for soap. You need a pH meter.



Cutetaxguy said:


> So the absolute only way possible way to make a mistake is to have no idea what your doing ?? That’s weird
> 
> I did not post my resume . I posted to seek input I had maybe over looked or advise I may have missed. I did not realize I had to detail my entire life so the you would feel comfortable with my skill lever as to appropriately Lecture me instead of provide insight or advice
> 
> I stand by my statements, and I have no intention of justifying myself to someone who can only feel self worth when judging someone’s entire life based on one request for help. White I may point out you did not do. Your soul motive was to talk down to someone you never meet or talked to before. I am sorry you have no control in your own life and feel better by putting other people down. I’m fairly sure they have medication for people like you


I agree on smaller batches. I’ve been soaping for  6 years and still make 1 pound batches when trying out a new recipe or fragrance. It’s a good practice.



cmzaha said:


> If this is pointed at me. First off I did answer the original post about Avo Oil. You are the one that mentioned it being zappy and you did not know why so just dumped in more oil. That makes one think you do not know what you are doing. I am not judging you, I really do not care what you do, but people that sell and give away bad soap make it hard for the folks that do sell. You would be surprised how many will complain that the soap they purchased was terrible. Putting you down, nope, judging you nope, just saying know what you are making before selling. It can take years to create fantastic soap. BTW, I have a lot of control of my life thank you very much for the concern. Bye Bye


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## penelopejane (Aug 5, 2019)

Cutetaxguy said:


> So the absolute only way possible way to make a mistake is to have no idea what your doing ?? That’s weird
> 
> I did not post my resume . I posted to seek input I had maybe over looked or advise I may have missed. I did not realize I had to detail my entire life so the you would feel comfortable with my skill lever as to appropriately Lecture me instead of provide insight or advice
> 
> I stand by my statements, and I have no intention of justifying myself to someone who can only feel self worth when judging someone’s entire life based on one request for help. White I may point out you did not do. Your soul motive was to talk down to someone you never meet or talked to before. I am sorry you have no control in your own life and feel better by putting other people down. I’m fairly sure they have medication for people like you


I really don't think you should be personally abusive on the forum. 
Everyone so far has tried to help you work out the problems with your recipe out of the goodness of their heart using their spare time to do so.  
You have not stated your complete recipe and additives in a coherent way. 
In your first post are saying you using Avocado shortening? If so, that would not be pure Avocado oil and the sap value would be different.
Zap and pH are not related. 
Most people take a few years to perfect their recipes before they consider selling soap to the general public.  This helps the industry as the public don't get a negative view of handmade soap that may not be quite up to scratch.


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