# Soap Is Not Moisturizing?



## hungryhawaiian (Mar 5, 2019)

Ok people, what’s the deal with the term “moisturizing” in soaps? I’ve been scolded and seen other noobs get scolded for associating that word with soap. Apparently soap cannot be moisturizing?

In an FB soap group I was dang near burned at the stake for saying it a couple times. They’d say that soap is not moisturizing, but in a lot of the readings I’ve done and are currently doing, they all seem to have no problems saying that this recipe is moisturizing or that soap is moisturizing or add this to make it more moisturizing or take away that to make it moisturizing.... 

I mean, handmade soaps, as we all know, retain glycerin, which we also know is a humectant. Glycerin, as a humectant, draws water from the air and into your skin. So how isn’t soap moisturizing based on that alone? 

This thread is probably more a rant than a question, because as far as I’m concerned, that FB group has never been helpful to me and if anything, I’ve only seen them severely deter noobs like myself from even wanting to post questions or maybe their finished products for constructive criticism or just a pat on the back for taking a leap. 

Y’all SMFers have been nothing but helpful and understanding since day one for me, and I’m thankful for you all! 

/endrant


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## earlene (Mar 5, 2019)

Well, now if you leave your soap on your skin like you do an actual moisturizer, then perhaps you might obtain some moisturizing effect from the soap.  But since most people wash soap off right away, the skin does not have a chance to absorb  whatever moisturizing features that the soapmaker may have built into the recipe.  I'm pretty sure that is the point that is being made when people say, 'soap does not moisturize.'  It's a technicality, if you think about it.


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## Dawni (Mar 5, 2019)

The way I see it is...

Soap cleans. If it has less cleansing properties then less of the natural oils of your skin are stripped off, and with the added glycerin, moisture in the air is drawn in. But it is cleaning you first, meaning it has to _take off_ something.

A cream for example, on the other hand, is something you _add to_ skin. After cleansing, once the oils n dirt are out, a cream would add whatever properties it had on to your skin and I don't know, maybe keep it there.

Not sure if any of that made sense but in my head it did. 

It's all technicalities and semantics and perception I think, and so much more than my brain can handle. But to make it simple for myself that's how I think of it.

Take conditioning for example. My brain doesn't really wrap itself around this idea so in formulating a recipe I just try n find a balance of less cleansing and hard enough, while the rest of the oils are there to lend whatever goodness they do have.

Here's a short but good read on this topic, too.


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## hungryhawaiian (Mar 5, 2019)

Dawni said:


> The way I see it is...
> 
> Soap cleans. If it has less cleansing properties then less of the natural oils of your skin are stripped off, and with the added glycerin, moisture in the air is drawn in. But it is cleaning you first, meaning it has to _take off_ something.
> 
> ...



I could get lost in that thread.... But yes, it all makes sense. Shunt2011 and DeeAnna’s responses, wow! Love it. 

I’m in the process of reading Scientific Soapmaking. Just started reading last night. I hope to remember all the technical aspects of the chemical compositions of the entire Soapmaking process, just like DeeAnna.


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## Donee' (Mar 5, 2019)

It just seems a complete hypocrisy when people say that soap only cleans (Ihave also been through the "burning at the stake" scenario) - my simple and confirmed logic comes down to one question
"why bother with all the oil combinations if soap "only cleans"
No one has managed to answer that question in any form of intelligent logic for me yet.
I did do a whole lot of research into white papers written by chemists, professors and the like only to discover that soap has more qualities than "just cleaning" and that the skin has many  many more qualities than just "being cleaned"
Do yourself a favour and go google benefits of soap AND make sure to google the absorbent rate of soap on the skin e.g. how many layers and how quickly the ingredients in soap get absorbed into those layers.
If hand made soap is indeed only for cleaning then why are there never ending threads on oil combinations and the benefits thereof.
PLUS an interesting article I found about how soap was discovered revealed that soap was initially used as an ointment.
But dogma is dogma and sometimes you just have to do your own thing and do your own research.

Having said that I can speak from personal and business experience that I make and sell medicinal soap and its going very well.  I sell to pharmacies and homeopaths and the like and they would know wouldnt they?


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## Alfa_Lazcares (Mar 5, 2019)

“Why bother with all the oil combinations?” Well i cant talk for every soaper out there, i bother with all the oil combinations because different oils bring different things to the soap itself. More bubbles? Bring that coconut! Less slime? Less olive. More creaminess? More lard. Too stripping? Less coconut. Things like that. Not because i think an oil (that will stop being an oil once its made in to soap) is gonna bring me any benefits.


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## DWinMadison (Mar 5, 2019)

HH...Our brains function similarly.  I get your point.  When a soap says it’s “moisturizing” I think it means “has less drying effect on your skin than more harsh soaps.”  I think, almost definition, that means “less cleansing.”  So, I formulate my soap to balance the cleansing effects of , say coconut oil, with the milder, “conditioning” of palm and olive. Castor is for bubbles. I’m pretty much obsessed with hitting the sweet spot of the Soap Bar Quality Scale on soapcalc.  I guess all soap gets you clean. It’s just a matter of how clean.


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## reeeen4 (Mar 6, 2019)

Yeah I think it all has to do with a persons definition of moisturising, or moisturising in relation to soap anyway. I would agree that it, to me would mean a soap that is less harsh and strips less oil from my skin. Like a 100% coconut oil soap will leave your skin tight and dry but an Castille soap will not. A soap is a clenser not a moisturiser so it cleans and strips but it can have moisturising qualities and strip less depending on the formula. If that makes sense. My view of it anyway.


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## DWinMadison (Mar 6, 2019)

reeeen4 said:


> Yeah I think it all has to do with a persons definition of moisturising, or moisturising in relation to soap anyway. I would agree that it, to me would mean a soap that is less harsh and strips less oil from my skin. Like a 100% coconut oil soap will leave your skin tight and dry but an Castille soap will not. A soap is a clenser not a moisturiser so it cleans and strips but it can have moisturising qualities and strip less depending on the formula. If that makes sense. My view of it anyway.



^ What she said.


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## lenarenee (Mar 6, 2019)

Donee' said:


> Having said that I can speak from personal and business experience that I make and sell medicinal soap and its going very well.  I sell to pharmacies and homeopaths and the like and they would know wouldnt they?



I don't know how it works in South Africa, but here in the US - no, they wouldn't.  Many are happy to sell/make a buck on  almost anything that interests their customers whether the product is truly therapeutic or not, and whether they understand how it works - or not.


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## Donee' (Mar 6, 2019)

I think that the focus should shift from "the science of soap" to "the science of SKIN"
So if anyone is researching anything to do with soap - then make sure to research SKIN


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## lenarenee (Mar 6, 2019)

I'm not sure where I stand about soap being moisturizing, and I'm not sure science could really prove or disprove because you have to use water to conduct the experiment and your skin will be at least more hydrated simply from that.

The thing that keeps me from fully believing that soap is moisturizing is the way soap works. H2O is the miracle polar molecule with different electric charges on each end; one attracts water, the other oil. Add friction and any dirt, particles, oils, etc attach to their matching electric charges and then get rinsed down the drain.   My question is - is anything left behind? _ Well, probably. Natural skin oils, excess oils, dirt that the soap couldn't remove simply because there was more of it than soap therefore not enough molecules to attach to. (italics represent my theory, not necessarily fact)_

This also makes me skeptical that soap can be medicinal - at least to any significant benefit. Even the studies of triclosan in soap show that it doesn't reduce bacteria more than regular soap washing. The chemistry and action of soap washing is all about attracting molecules - not dispensing them.

On the other hand, maybe soap does moisturize because: 1) the water hydrates the skin at least a little, and a soap with a significant sf_ might leave enough oil residue to coat the skin and act as an occlusive._   However, I read a post of DeeAnna dated Feb 11 which stated that the sf of a salt bar with high coconut oil does not replace the skin's natural oils that the bar cleaned off, but that its sf is emulsified and that prevents the high coconut oil from doing the stripping in the first place. Soooo....I'm still on the fence.​


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## KiwiMoose (Mar 6, 2019)

I think (handmade) soap can appear moisturising because I am comparing it with commercial soaps that I have used previously. Let's face it - since I've been making soap I've been washing my hands about twenty times a day or more.  I generously lather up my soaps to try them out, and sometimes compare one to another in the same hand washing session. And my hands are not dry - if anything they are more moisturised than they've ever been.


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 6, 2019)

I like washing with soap that leaves my skin feeling moisturized. 'Nuff  said.


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## hungryhawaiian (Mar 6, 2019)

Zany_in_CO said:


> I like washing with soap that leaves my skin feeling moisturized. 'Nuff  said.



*high five*


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## Alfa_Lazcares (Mar 6, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> I think (handmade) soap can appear moisturising because I am comparing it with commercial soaps that I have used previously. Let's face it - since I've been making soap I've been washing my hands about twenty times a day or more.  I generously lather up my soaps to try them out, and sometimes compare one to another in the same hand washing session. And my hands are not dry - if anything they are more moisturised than they've ever been.



This. Im one of those people that neglects moistourizing after a shower, i never put any kind of lotion on my legs, and i always had that dry skin that looks flaky and ashy on them. And then i started using my soaps and that look on my legs is gone. They also feel softer. Its obviusly the soap since nothing else changed. But is it because the soap is moistourizing? I dont know. Its different and i notice the difference, than when i used store bought soap.


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## hungryhawaiian (Mar 6, 2019)

Because it’s obvious that this is a touchy subject, and if I ask 20 people the same question, I’ll probably get 20 different answers, I just want you all to know that we are all Soap Making Friends, and I value everyone’s input equally. Until there is definitive proof of soaps true moisturizing value, I don’t think anyone is right or wrong.

At the end of the day, you’re the one that uses your soap. Your clients are the ones using your soap. Your family are the ones using your soap. If it makes them happy, that’s all that matters [emoji267]


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## Dawni (Mar 6, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> I think (handmade) soap can appear moisturising because I am comparing it with commercial soaps that I have used previously. Let's face it - since I've been making soap I've been washing my hands about twenty times a day or more.  I generously lather up my soaps to try them out, and sometimes compare one to another in the same hand washing session. And my hands are not dry - if anything they are more moisturised than they've ever been.


I was telling the hungry dude this exact same thing. If someone were to use handmade soap after years of using commercial syndets then there is a chance they'd think it more moisturizing, having the glycerin for one thing, the superfat I guess, and just plain having less chemicals on their skin.

Like I said, it's part semantics. You say your hands have never been more moisturized, I'd say they're not as dry as they've always been.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Mar 6, 2019)

As for oil combinations, you'll find a lot of soapers have gone full circle and use a smaller selection of oils than what is available, unless they sell and an oil has label appeal. 

That said, soap is a surfactant and so a combination will impact how it works. Keeping the co at a percentage and using either more olive oil or more lard will change how easily the soap will lather (which will impact how much oil it takes from your skin)

The combination of oils also impact's how you can soap - temperature, water amount, that sort of thing. People will use different oil combinations because of how they soap, not just what soap they get out of the mould


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## Marilyn Norgart (Mar 6, 2019)

is there some difference between soap and shampoo?  both basically soap?  I have used shampoo that has been marketed here in the US as a shampoo to help psoriasis--which it did help. and there are shampoos that are marketed as cleansing and conditioning.  how many people use tar soap for the same reason--granted there has been discussions on the legal end of claiming that it helps but people that use it obviously feel it works or they wouldn't use it for the condition.  to me it sounds like our government is saying someone cant say it works but it does.  kinda like our government was saying medical marijuana doesn't work until there was a push back on them.


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## Donee' (Mar 6, 2019)

When it comes to living a healthy and natural lifestyle, what you put on your body is just as significant as what you put in your body. Your skin is the largest organ of your body and since it is porous, it absorbs whatever you put on it.

A study published in the American Journal of Public Health looked into the skin’s absorption rates of chemicals found in drinking water. It showed that the skin absorbed an average of 64% of total contaminant dosage.1Other studies found the face to be several times more permeable than broad body surfaces and an absorption rate of 100% for underarms and genitalia.2 And another peer-reviewed study showed 100% absorption for fragrance ingredients.3

It is easy to see that what we use on our skin ends up inside our bodies. So it is important to pay close attention to the ingredients in our skin care products. If the products you use contain harmful ingredients such as harsh, toxic chemicals, colors, and fragrances, those ingredients make their way into your body, your blood and lymphatic system. The majority of mainstream body care products contain a cocktail of carcinogenic chemicals, allergens, and irritants.

To eliminate a lot of toxic chemicals, preservatives, and fragrances that are harmful to our bodies, choose certified organic and natural skin care products. It is important to read labels and become educated about what ingredients to avoid when selecting body care products. A good motto to go by is if you can’t pronounce it or have only seen it in chemistry class, don’t use it! Petroleum derivatives, preservatives, synthetic fragrances and dyes go by many names. A few examples of common ingredients to steer clear of are Cocoamidopropyl Betaine, Olefin Sulfonate, Sodium Luaroyl Sarcosinate, Potassium Cocoyl Glutamate, Sulfates, Parabens, and Phenoxyethanol. Following is an example of a mainstream product and the synthetic ingredients it contains:

*Vaseline Intensive Care Dry Skin Lotion*
Ingredients from packaging: ACTIVE INGREDIENT: ETHYLHEXYL P-METHOXYCINNAMATE (SPF 5). OTHER INGREDIENTS: WATER, GLYCERIN, STEARIC ACID, GLYCOL STEARATE, SUNFLOWER SEED OIL, SOYA STEROL, LECITHIN, TOCOPHERYL ACETATE, RETINYL PALMITATE, DIMETHICONE, GLYCERYL STEARATE, CETYL ALCOHOL, TEA, MAGNESIUM ALUMINUM SILICATE, FRAGRANCE, CARBOMER, STEARAMIDE AMP, CORN OIL, METHYLPARABEN, DMDM HYDANTOIN, IODOPROPYNYL BUTYLCARBAMATE, DISODIUM EDTA, PG, BHT, TITANIUM DIOXIDE, YELLOW NO. 10.

By selecting organic and natural products for yourself and your family, you are taking a big step toward a healthier lifestyle. The developing organs of babies and children are particularly sensitive to chemicals so it is especially important to use safe products for your youngsters. Down to Earth has a wide selection of natural and organic body care products. Look for even more in the near future as our team is working hard to ensure that DTE carries the purest products available

The WASH IN effect - very interesting

*Abstract*
Skin decontamination is a primary interventional method used to decrease dermal absorption of hazardous contaminants, including chemical warfare agents, pesticides and industrial pollutants. Soap and water wash, the most common and readily available decontamination system, may enhance percutaneous absorption through the "wash-in effect." To understand better the effect of soap-water wash on percutaneous penetration, and provide insight to improving skin decontamination methods, in vitro human epidermal penetration rates of four C(14) -labeled model chemicals (hydroquinone, clonidine, benzoic acid and paraoxon) were assayed using flow-through diffusion cells. Stratum corneum (SC) absorption rates of these chemicals at various hydration levels (0-295% of the dry SC weights) were determined and compared with the results of the epidermal penetration study to clarify the effect of SC hydration on skin permeability. Results showed accelerated penetration curves of benzoic acid and paraoxon after surface wash at 30 min postdosing. Thirty minutes after washing (60 min postdosing), penetration rates of hydroquinone and benzoic acid decreased due to reduced amounts of chemical on the skin surface and in the SC. At the end of the experiment (90 min postdosing), a soap-water wash resulted in lower hydroquinone penetration, greater paraoxon penetration and similar levels of benzoic acid and clonidine penetration compared to penetration levels in the non-wash groups. The observed wash-in effect agrees with the enhancement effect of SC hydration on the SC chemical absorption rate. These results suggest SC hydration derived from surface wash to be one cause of the wash-in effect. Further, the occurrence of a wash-in effect is dependent on chemical identity and elapsed time between exposure and onset of decontamination. By reducing chemical residue quantity on skin surface and in the SC reservoir, the soap-water wash may decrease the total quantity of chemical absorbed in the long term; however, the more immediate accelerated absorption of chemical toxins, particularly chemical warfare agents, may be lethal.


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## Marilyn Norgart (Mar 6, 2019)

Donee' said:


> By selecting organic and natural products for yourself and your family, you are taking a big step toward a healthier lifestyle. The developing organs of babies and children are particularly sensitive to chemicals so it is especially important to use safe products for your youngsters. Down to Earth has a wide selection of natural and organic body care products. Look for even more in the near future as our team is working hard to ensure that DTE carries the purest products available



do you work for Down to Earth or this a quote from another article, just wondering


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## Donee' (Mar 6, 2019)

Ag i dunno - there is SOOOO much on skin absorption - i think just go with what works - if you make an acne soap with charcoal and tea tree and the acne clears up - then it works.
Some countries are incredibly protective of the big corporations and that why there are so many rules and regulations - sgtrange that the big corporations are completely allowed to put whatever claims they like on the label but artisinal soapmakers are not.
just saying.



Marilyn Norgart said:


> do you work for Down to Earth or this a quote from another article, just wondering


just a copy and paste
but all the white papers on skin absorption are out there and are to long to copy and paste.
There are millions and millions of studies about skin aborption


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## Sultana (Mar 6, 2019)

Donee' said:


> It just seems a complete hypocrisy when people say that soap only cleans (Ihave also been through the "burning at the stake" scenario) - my simple and confirmed logic comes down to one question
> "why bother with all the oil combinations if soap "only cleans"
> No one has managed to answer that question in any form of intelligent logic for me yet.
> I did do a whole lot of research into white papers written by chemists, professors and the like only to discover that soap has more qualities than "just cleaning" and that the skin has many  many more qualities than just "being cleaned"
> ...


I think it has more to do with the fact if you claim that your soap does anything but clean ie you say it moisturizes then it falls under a drug because you are making a claim.


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## Clarice (Mar 6, 2019)

people mostly think of organs being on the "inside" but I have heard it said that 0ur skin is our biggest organ - it makes sense to me that what we put on this precious organ is as important as what we put in our bodies!  So much to learn!  Sometimes frustrating given conflicting information!


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## Donee' (Mar 6, 2019)

Clarice said:


> people mostly think of organs being on the "inside" but I have heard it said that 0ur skin is our biggest organ - it makes sense to me that what we put on this precious organ is as important as what we put in our bodies!  So much to learn!  Sometimes frustrating given conflicting information!


My best suggestion would be do your own research and come up with your own conclusions - but mostly i would suggest that you try medicinal soap and hand out a few and then see the feedback.  Always best to do the practise.
There are many people who still believe that the skin is only the skin and has no other duties in our bodies and that soap is only soap - in my personal opinion this is an old fashioned outlook - but if it makes them happy and they prefer to spread that then its their decision.
I never ever super fat either - which is another bone of contention or heated discussion.
But i think that passionate discussion is necessary and appreciated and should not be stopped.


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## Clarice (Mar 6, 2019)

Sultana said:


> I think it has more to do with the fact if you claim that your soap does anything but clean ie you say it moisturizes then it falls under a drug because you are making a claim.



you are right @Sultana - whenever you claim to alter the state of skin, you are treading dangerously close to drug territory.  Cosmetics companies skirt this by using language like:


Leaves skin feeling......
with XXXX, known for its XXXX properties (with Vitamin E, known for healing properties)
etc.  
smaller manufacturers also seem to "get away" with more than big guys - simply because they often fly under the radar!


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## earlene (Mar 6, 2019)

Marilyn Norgart said:


> is there some difference between soap and shampoo?  both basically soap?  I have used shampoo that has been marketed here in the US as a shampoo to help psoriasis--which it did help. and there are shampoos that are marketed as cleansing and conditioning.  how many people use tar soap for the same reason--granted there has been discussions on the legal end of claiming that it helps but people that use it obviously feel it works or they wouldn't use it for the condition.  to me it sounds like our government is saying someone cant say it works but it does.  kinda like our government was saying medical marijuana doesn't work until there was a push back on them.



Marilyn, yes there is a difference in shampoos (commercial liquid shampoos) and soap.  Most, if not all, commercial shampoos I see on the market are not soap by legal (federally regulated) definition, at least as it pertains to the US federal regulations.  I have no idea how these are regulated in all other countries, but the fact that they are primarily made with detergent chemicals, makes them not soap in the US.  In the US, if they contain or claim to be medicinal, they are regulated as drugs.  The same is true of soap that is claimed to be medicinal in the US; it is regulated as a drug.  If the shampoo is simply marketed to clean the hair but is made primarily of detergents (not soap) it is regulated as a cosmetic in the US.  So your answers pertain to how it is made, where it is sold and how the regulations of the locale in which it is sold.

South Africa (Donee is in SA) may have entirely different regulations.  I have no personal knowledge of SA's regs, but I don know that many members here in the European Union have very stringent regulations that affect them that other parts of the world don't really have to learn unless we 1. want to understand them or 2. plan to sell in the EU.

Does the skin absorb, well of course it does. There isn't a nurse around who has put nitropaste treatment on a patient/client who hasn't learned either by personal experience or were at least taught in Nursing School, that you can get a horrendous headache if you don't wear protective gloves while handling the nitropaste.  It's not only about the skin being able to absorb, it's also about the size of the particles.  That's why nano particles are so important.  The smaller the particle, the more easily it is absorbed via the skin.  Too big, and it is not absorbed.


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## DWinMadison (Mar 6, 2019)

lenarenee said:


> I don't know how it works in South Africa, but here in the US - no, they wouldn't.  Many are happy to sell/make a buck on  almost anything that interests their customers whether the product is truly therapeutic or not, and whether they understand how it works - or not.



I love the smell of capitalism in the morning.


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## Hendejm (Mar 6, 2019)

I’ve chimed in on this subject before professing that soap does not moisturize the skin. While I still believe that is true - I can’t ignore how my skin feels after using handmade soap to wash. Is it placebo effect? Is it because my soaps don’t have added chemicals?  Is it the oils left behind when washing?

Water does not moisturize the skin - it is drying on the the skin. While initially hydrating - water accelerates evaporation of water from the skin more quickly  - hot water makes this worse. So I’m left thinking that oils left behind either from the soap or from the skin allows more moisture to be retained and not evaporate as swiftly. This could explain why milder soaps are better than harsher soaps for retaining moisture. 

I suppose I am left with the notion that soap does not add moisture to the skin - but rather, depending on the soap, it can allow the skin to retain moisture. So finally -I guess I’m in the side that feels that soap does not moisturize the skin but soap CAN allow the skin the remain moisturized depending on formula. 

I think the key may be at how well our handmade soap removes oils from the skin. The magic ingredient many not be the oils and butters we add to our soaps - but the natural oils that are naturally on our skin - and whether or not our handmade soaps remove all of our natural oils - or not. Maybe??


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## Dawni (Mar 6, 2019)

Hendejm said:


> I’ve chimed in on this subject before professing that soap does not moisturize the skin. While I still believe that is true - I can’t ignore how my skin feels after using handmade soap to wash. Is it placebo effect? Is it because my soaps don’t have added chemicals?  Is it the oils left behind when washing?
> 
> Water does not moisturize the skin - it is drying on the the skin. While initially hydrating - water accelerates evaporation of water from the skin more quickly  - hot water makes this worse. So I’m left thinking that oils left behind either from the soap or from the skin allows more moisture to be retained and not evaporate as swiftly. This could explain why milder soaps are better than harsher soaps for retaining moisture.
> 
> ...


You said it much better than I did earlier in this thread lol

@Donee' I'm curious.. When you say "medicinal soap" what does one contain that makes it different from "regular" handmade soap? I ask coz I've seen and used soap labeled as "ayurvedic" and while some were really nice, some were almost horrible and no better than a syndet bar.


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## Dean (Mar 6, 2019)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> As for oil combinations, you'll find a lot of soapers have gone full circle and use a smaller selection of oils than what is available, unless they sell and an oil has label appeal.



I’m one.   Experimented with added butters, high SF, SF after cook.   Found no benefit.  Returned to 4 basic oils: latherer, lather stabilizer, HO and hardener with 5% SF.

I don’t use OO.  Some SMFers have reported it to be drying.

What Ive learned is to keep the cleansing value very low...lower than the recommended calc range.  A lil CO in my recipie goes a very long way in terms of lather.


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## Donee' (Mar 6, 2019)

Dawni said:


> You said it much better than I did earlier in this thread lol
> 
> @Donee' I'm curious.. When you say "medicinal soap" what does one contain that makes it different from "regular" handmade soap? I ask coz I've seen and used soap labeled as "ayurvedic" and while some were really nice, some were almost horrible and no better than a syndet bar.



I agree with you on the disgusting so called medicinal bars out there.
"Medicinal" really came from me going blind doing research on the skin itself and what the skin does.  I have always believed that with the skin being the biggest organ it should be treated as a seaparate (but together) organ - and that skin has its own issues (a lot comes from internal issues but a lot are just the skin itself) - so I didnt want to compete with the pretty perfumed market out there and wanted to promote and produce something more practical that can actually help people.
Plus with being a beach baby and a hiker and generally a crazy white person running around in the bush in South Africas Sun I couldnt find anything for my own skin.  So my bars are very plain, without great packaging and no chemical additives (colours perfumes etc - i know there are natural colours and perfumes but i didnt want it for the medicinal range.

I have split my label into four categories:
Medicinal
Novelty
Luxury
Private Label

But my passion has always been herbs and the benefits they give  - if we can heal internal with herbs then why can we not heal external was my question- which is why i practise hoodoo poisen path - herbal remedies are the way to go and more and more of the millenials are now returning to their "roots" so to say.  Please dont think i am an expert of any sort - I will be a novice till the day I die - but the journey is great.

I am busy testing a soap that I put citronella into to ward off mozzies and flies - have given out 27 bars to game rangers and the like - feedback is really good.  Target market are tourists and outdoorsy people like myself.

Having said the above - i must add that BALANCE between science and nature is key.  Cant just go and chuck your blood pressure tablets away because you found a herb that controls blood pressure now can you 

Although the modern version is that nature IS science.
Oh i dont know - i have a flamingo poo filled brain right now.  And I pulled 46 muscles (they are growing up)


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## lenarenee (Mar 6, 2019)

hungryhawaiian said:


> Because it’s obvious that this is a touchy subject, and if I ask 20 people the same question, I’ll probably get 20 different answers, I just want you all to know that we are all Soap Making Friends, and I value everyone’s input equally. Until there is definitive proof of soaps true moisturizing value, I don’t think anyone is right or wrong.
> 
> At the end of the day, you’re the one that uses your soap. Your clients are the ones using your soap. Your family are the ones using your soap. If it makes them happy, that’s all that matters [emoji267]



Touchy? Did I miss something?   I thought we getting a good discussion going....everybody bringing their opinions and ideas to discuss us and ponder?  It's an interesting topic and I'd like to get to a factual conclusion eventually. The more people learning and discussing the better.


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## Donee' (Mar 6, 2019)

Marilyn Norgart said:


> is there some difference between soap and shampoo?  both basically soap?  I have used shampoo that has been marketed here in the US as a shampoo to help psoriasis--which it did help. and there are shampoos that are marketed as cleansing and conditioning.  how many people use tar soap for the same reason--granted there has been discussions on the legal end of claiming that it helps but people that use it obviously feel it works or they wouldn't use it for the condition.  to me it sounds like our government is saying someone cant say it works but it does.  kinda like our government was saying medical marijuana doesn't work until there was a push back on them.


I read somewhere or heard somewhere that commercial soap and shampoo are basically detergents



lenarenee said:


> Touchy? Did I miss something?   I thought we getting a good discussion going....everybody bringing their opinions and ideas to discuss us and ponder?  It's an interesting topic and I'd like to get to a factual conclusion eventually. The more people learning and discussing the better.


Some of the people do get a tad overboard with their convictions and then get all personal - I have been referred to as a troll and my country as non handwashing and and and - personally I am with you on the passionate discussion and questioning and debating and then coming to a conclusion.  Similar to a bunch of lawyers discussing a specific sentence in a law and how it can be interpreted or misinterpreted.
There are also always a group that just wont budge - the dogma - it is this way or no way.
I say keep it rolling. I am loving the discussion


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## Hendejm (Mar 6, 2019)

lenarenee said:


> Touchy? Did I miss something?   I thought we getting a good discussion going....everybody bringing their opinions and ideas to discuss us and ponder?  It's an interesting topic and I'd like to get to a factual conclusion eventually. The more people learning and discussing the better.


There have been other discussions on this subject and there is a certain faction on this forum that will not budge in their beliefs regarding this issue (I may have been one of those people - ha!). They refuse to acknowledge that the soap industry is not a “one size fits all”  mentality. So many variables come into play regarding soap - recipe, cure time, washing habits, drying habits, water hardness, climate, additives, perception, etc. So I believe it is something that can not be definitively answered.

In my soap business, I choose to err on the side of caution and not make any medicinal claims. But I will say things like “ leaves skin feeling refreshed” or “nourishing oils and butters that gently clean the skin”. That may make me too much like a politician - but I don’t want to overstate or misinform my customer so I keep it vague and allow them to reach their own conclusions.


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## lenarenee (Mar 6, 2019)

Marilyn Norgart said:


> is there some difference between soap and shampoo?  both basically soap?  I have used shampoo that has been marketed here in the US as a shampoo to help psoriasis--which it did help. and there are shampoos that are marketed as cleansing and conditioning.  how many people use tar soap for the same reason--granted there has been discussions on the legal end of claiming that it helps but people that use it obviously feel it works or they wouldn't use it for the condition.  to me it sounds like our government is saying someone cant say it works but it does.  kinda like our government was saying medical marijuana doesn't work until there was a push back on them.



Shampoos are surfactants. Don't know how that does or does affect the situation. There's also anti fungal shampoo like Head and Shoulders, but does it work?  Personal experience with myself and others is inconclusive because some say it helps but others say  no. And not all flaky itchy scalps are dandruff so that throws another wrenchin our problem solving.


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## DWinMadison (Mar 6, 2019)

Hendejm said:


> I’ve chimed in on this subject before professing that soap does not moisturize the skin. While I still believe that is true - I can’t ignore how my skin feels after using handmade soap to wash. Is it placebo effect? Is it because my soaps don’t have added chemicals?  Is it the oils left behind when washing?
> 
> Water does not moisturize the skin - it is drying on the the skin. While initially hydrating - water accelerates evaporation of water from the skin more quickly  - hot water makes this worse. So I’m left thinking that oils left behind either from the soap or from the skin allows more moisture to be retained and not evaporate as swiftly. This could explain why milder soaps are better than harsher soaps for retaining moisture.
> 
> ...



^This guy.  I agree.  I can make this observation about the skin absorption thing.  I've been on a strict weight loss (diet and exercised regimen) since Jan 2nd.  (23 lbs lost in 63 days! *[email protected]#&[fireworks]#*@+.  Anyway, I weigh daily...sometimes several times.  I have noticed that usually when I weigh before a shower and after, even though I dry off totally, I will have pickup about 1/3 pound on average while in the shower.  The only thing that could be is water that my skin has absorbed--at least temporarily.  For a while I thought my scales must have that much variability, but it's almost always a weight gain.  The only time I lose weight in the shower is when...well...a Seinfeld episode comes to mind.  (Oh, we've all done it.  Get off my case!)


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## lenarenee (Mar 6, 2019)

Hendejm said:


> I’ve chimed in on this subject before professing that soap does not moisturize the skin. While I still believe that is true - I can’t ignore how my skin feels after using handmade soap to wash. Is it placebo effect? Is it because my soaps don’t have added chemicals?  Is it the oils left behind when washing?
> 
> Water does not moisturize the skin - it is drying on the the skin. While initially hydrating - water accelerates evaporation of water from the skin more quickly  - hot water makes this worse. So I’m left thinking that oils left behind either from the soap or from the skin allows more moisture to be retained and not evaporate as swiftly. This could explain why milder soaps are better than harsher soaps for retaining moisture.
> 
> ...



Water dries the skin? After a long exposure maybe?

And yes,  that sounds logical to me.

As much as I would like to contact Proctor and Gamble in hope of finding a physiologist and  chemist to pose this question to, I bet they're forbidden to talk.

Donee, your post (#21) were those your words  or from someone's website?  The skin does NOT absorb everything, and that is a fact. The conditions such  as molecular size and electrical charge control that. There are protein "doorways" in every cell that control what gets in or doesn't.  Some oils can affect that, sometimes allowing moleclues to enter when they normally wouldn't. 

There's also a difference between permeate, absorb, and utulize. So even if something is found in the skin, it's not necessarily utilized or integrates into the body systems. The deeper layers of the skin are designed to constantly kill it's own cells (so to speak) push up and out of the body, and that removes some of those chemicals the get into the skin, but aren't processed.

Even many  facial anti aging creams are useless because the moleclues can't enter the cell. Emu oil is one oil that does help cause absorption and is even used to make certain Rx topical medications.

But that's pretty much all I know; I don't have a list of things that do get into the body (although many heavy metals d0).


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## cmzaha (Mar 6, 2019)

Marilyn Norgart said:


> is there some difference between soap and shampoo?  both basically soap?  I have used shampoo that has been marketed here in the US as a shampoo to help psoriasis--which it did help. and there are shampoos that are marketed as cleansing and conditioning.  how many people use tar soap for the same reason--granted there has been discussions on the legal end of claiming that it helps but people that use it obviously feel it works or they wouldn't use it for the condition.  to me it sounds like our government is saying someone cant say it works but it does.  kinda like our government was saying medical marijuana doesn't work until there was a push back on them.


Shampoo is usually synthetic based, and this has been discussed a zillion times. Being a synthetic "shampoo" has a lower ph and much gentler on the hair. Chaz tried jumping on the "Natural" band wagon by making a product line that originally was a lye based LS, it has completely disappeared and in the lawsuit against they do no directly mention is was Liquid Soap. I told my husband when I had looked it up, before the law suit, that he was going to have a problem, there is no lye soap in his Conditioning Shampoos now. His Conditioning Shampoo is more like shampooing with lotion. 

I do feel differences between different combinations of fatty acids. I have been using my 100% non lathering AVO and it leaves my skin feeling soft not mosistured. This is a bar made with a 2% SF and vinegar for water. I simply consider it less stripping.

@Donee' in the US we can make NO claims, so no medicinal soaps.

@Marilyn Norgart  Pine Tar is an old old remedy for psoriasis and is most likely still found in some Dandruff Shampoos. At one pine tar was the main ingredient in dandruff and shampoos for Psoriasis.


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## Hendejm (Mar 6, 2019)

lenarenee said:


> Water dries the skin? After a long exposure maybe?
> 
> And yes,  that sounds logical to me.
> 
> As much as I would like to contact Proctor and Gamble in hope of finding a physiologist and  chemist to pose this question to, I bet they're forbidden to talk.


Yup!  I know it sounds crazy!  But water (especially hot water) accelerates evaporation and causes your skin to dry out. That’s why lotions work - they keep the moisture in. 

Think of it another way - ever noticed that when you lick your lips a lot - it causes chapped lips? That’s because the water in your saliva accelerates evaporation of water in your skin.   Crazy fun fact!


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 6, 2019)

DWinMadison said:


> I love the smell of capitalism in the morning.






 Man, does that ever bring back memories... Robert Duvall, _Apocalypse Now_. Thanks for the laugh, Daryl! I needed that.


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## soapmaker (Mar 6, 2019)

[QUOTE="

On the other hand, maybe soap does moisturize because: 1) the water hydrates the skin at least a little, and a soap with a significant sf_ might leave enough oil residue to coat the skin and act as an occlusive._   However, I read a post of DeeAnna dated Feb 11 which stated that the sf of a salt bar with high coconut oil does not replace the skin's natural oils that the bar cleaned off, but that its sf is emulsified and that prevents the high coconut oil from doing the stripping in the first place. Soooo....I'm still on the fence.​[/QUOTE]

I was waiting for someone to mention superfatting. This is of course not scientific but if our skin doesn't feel more moisturized when using our soap then why are we making soap, why not be satisfied with the detergent soaps in the store. From experience, I used to itch like crazy and had to slather baby oil all over myself until using superfatted homemade soap. Isn't that because there's more oil left on my skin and therefore somewhat moisturized?


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 6, 2019)

Donee' said:


> I am busy testing a soap that I put citronella into to ward off mozzies and flies - have given out 27 bars to game rangers and the like - feedback is really good.  Target market are tourists and outdoorsy people like myself.


You might want to try Lemon Eucalypus EO ... contains more citronella than citronella and smells waaay better... like lemon mint...  Approved by the FDA as one of the few natural ingredients effective as skeeter repellent and, in use, other nasties as well. Effective at 10% in a spray I make.  "Guinea person" tested in the Amazon -- gave it a thumb's up.  Long story.

Oopsie.   Apologies to the OP for the Hijack. Back to the topic at hand. (@Donee: Contact me off list if you want more info.)


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## Marilyn Norgart (Mar 6, 2019)

lenarenee said:


> Shampoos are surfactants. Don't know how that does or does affect the situation. There's also anti fungal shampoo like Head and Shoulders, but does it work?  Personal experience with myself and others is inconclusive because some say it helps but others say  no. And not all flaky itchy scalps are dandruff so that throws another wrenchin our problem solving.



I find with  psoriasis (and I believe its with a lot of things) what works for me may not work for you and vice versa.  I believe it is the same way for homeopathic things too--to a certain extent even medicines are like that. but with that being said if it doesn't work for me and it works for you that doesn't mean  it doesn't work.  I know a lot of people on here make pine tar soap--why do they make it if it doesn't help the skin in someway--same with some of the EOs, tea tree being an example


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## soapmaker (Mar 6, 2019)

HH..thanks for asking these thought provoking questions.


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## IrishLass (Mar 6, 2019)

Hendejm said:


> So many variables come into play regarding soap - recipe, cure time, washing habits, drying habits, water hardness, climate, additives, perception, etc. So I believe it is something that can not be definitively answered.



Let's not forget skin-type, too.....and also allergies and/or tolerances. As Marilyn just said^^^what works well for one person (whether soaping oils or medicine), may not work well for another at all...... and/or may even be dangerous in a life-threatening way for certain others. For example, some folks cannot stand to formulate their soaps with olive oil (which is _generally _regarded as a gentle, conditioning oil in soap formulas), because it has the opposite effect on their skin that it has for many others- i.e.,  instead of being gentle, it's very drying or irritating to their skin. And though penicillin may be life saving for one person, it can put another person in the grave.

Also- I often feel the odd lass out on the forum when it comes to the % of coconut that one can tolerate to have in their soap formulas. lol Several folks can't go much over 15% in their formulas, while my family and myself are perfectly fine with any amount all the way up to 100% CO provided that my formula has a certain cushion %  of superfat. With 100% CO, we need a 20% S/F, with 31% CO we need an 8% S/F, and with 28% CO, we're good with a 5% S/F.

Intrinsically speaking, I do not consider soap to be a 'moisturizer', and I would never ever refer to it as being such, because by definition, and by nature, and by experience, soap is a cleanser.....in other words, it's main purpose in life in effect is to get things clean.....that's what we buy if for..... but that's not to say you can't manipulate the level of its cleansing power by formulating with oils that don't contain so much lauric/myristic acids, and/or jack with the superfat level so that instead of your skin feeling dry after using it, it feels comfortably hydrated enough that you don't need to run for the lotion bottle. Even though my superfat level may leave behind an ever so slight, pleasant lotion-y feel on my skin (which by the way- yes- it does), when all said and done, my soap still cleans the dirt off my body like nothing else can.

That's the great thing about making our own soap.....we can find the balance of what amount of cleansing works best with each of our unique, individual skin-types to get them clean, but without making them feel as parched as the driest desert.



			
				Hendejm said:
			
		

> In my soap business, I choose to err on the side of caution and not make any medicinal claims. But I will say things like “ leaves skin feeling refreshed” or “nourishing oils and butters that gently clean the skin”. That may make me too much like a politician - but I don’t want to overstate or misinform my customer so I keep it vague and allow them to reach their own conclusions.



I could be wrong, but if you live in the USA, I think the term 'nourishing' on a soap label may put it under the classification of being a drug by FDA standards.


IrishLass


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## DWinMadison (Mar 6, 2019)

Zany_in_CO said:


> You might want to try Lemon Eucalypus EO ... contains more citronella than citronella and smells waaay better... like lemon mint...  Approved by the FDA as one of the few natural ingredients effective as skeeter repellent and, in use, other nasties as well. Effective at 10% in a spray I make.  "Guinea person" tested in the Amazon -- gave it a thumb's up.  Long story.
> 
> Oopsie.   Apologies to the OP for the Hijack. Back to the topic at hand. (@Donee: Contact me off list if you want more info.)



Good time to ask, what pairs well with citronella to offset the rather obnoxious odor without killing off the bug-repellant properties?


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## Hendejm (Mar 6, 2019)

IrishLass said:


> I could be wrong, but if you live in the USA, I think the term 'nourishing' on a soap label may put it under the classification of being a drug by FDA standards.


You may very well be right. My rationalization (that’s never gotten me into trouble before ) is that I’m saying that oils and butters are nourishing and that soap gently cleans the skin....leaving it up to the consumer to connect those dots!  A fine line and a slippery Sloap... which I may be on the wrong side of!


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 6, 2019)

DWinMadison said:


> Good time to ask, what pairs well with citronella to offset the rather obnoxious odor without killing off the bug-repellant properties?


That would be "off topic", Daryl. You're welcome to contact me off list or start a new thread. Ooooo that would be fun! heh heh


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## hungryhawaiian (Mar 6, 2019)

soapmaker said:


> HH..thanks for asking these thought provoking questions.



No matter the outcome, you learn a lot. I just hope everyone comes out still being friends. [emoji51]

I certainly have gained a ton of info here!



Zany_in_CO said:


> View attachment 37246
> Man, does that ever bring back memories... Robert Duvall, _Apocalypse Now_. Thanks for the laugh, Daryl! I needed that.



Hey hey hey, our ages are showing now! lol



Zany_in_CO said:


> You might want to try Lemon Eucalypus EO ... contains more citronella than citronella and smells waaay better... like lemon mint...  Approved by the FDA as one of the few natural ingredients effective as skeeter repellent and, in use, other nasties as well. Effective at 10% in a spray I make.  "Guinea person" tested in the Amazon -- gave it a thumb's up.  Long story.
> 
> Oopsie.   Apologies to the OP for the Hijack. Back to the topic at hand. (@Donee: Contact me off list if you want more info.)



No apologies necessary, both of you just helped me out in the most unintentional but welcoming way! 

I work in Alaska most summers and they have what’s called “no see’ums” that bite the hell out of you. I dislike using lotions and spray repellents so I was wondering if a citronella soap would do the trick. Now I found a better ingredient to use to test out some no see’um reppelent soap.

Thank you!


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## soapmaker (Mar 6, 2019)

hungryhawaiian said:


> No matter the outcome, you learn a lot. I just hope everyone comes out still being friends. [emoji51]
> 
> I certainly have gained a ton of info here!


We're all adults...we accept or tolerate each other's thoughts, of course we'll still be friends!


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## jcandleattic (Mar 6, 2019)

hungryhawaiian said:


> No matter the outcome, you learn a lot. I just hope everyone comes out still being friends. [emoji51]
> 
> I certainly have gained a ton of info here!


If friends are lost over the word/term moisturizing, were they really meant to be friends? LOL 
Not trying to make light of this, just wanted to add humor.  

I always viewed soap as NOT being moisturizing because in my mind soap is meant to do 1 thing and 1 thing only and that's to clean and remove dirt/oils/gunk. 

However, this is a very interesting debate, and leads me to questions I never asked, and answers to those questions, or in some cases, just leads me to more questions.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Mar 6, 2019)

soapmaker said:


> ........ if our skin doesn't feel more moisturized when using our soap then why are we making soap.........



That for me is the crux. It might feel like that, but it doesn't mean that it is like that. And essentially those two questions can have opposite answers: does a soap moisturise? Does your soap make you FEEL moisturised?

As an example, the earth might APPEAR flat from where you are right now. IS the earth flat?

And that is also part of the reason for how intense it can get when discussing it. If someone was insistent that the earth is flat because it looks like it is, you would go crazy trying to talk sense to them. If someone says that soap moisturises because it feels like it does, you can get in to the same trap


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## earlene (Mar 6, 2019)

Dandruff is considered both bacterial and fungal infection of the skin.  Psoriarsis is considered a genetic autoimmune disorder of the skin.  Logically (and legally in the US and probably many other countries) anything to treat these would be considered medicinal.  So if someone uses pine tar soap with the purpose of 'soothing' or treating one such condition it would be considered medicinal soap (or shampoo, if it were used as a shampoo.)

Some more information about how nano particles are absorbed via the skin (a bit on the technical side): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2835875/
Notice that this is a rather old document (2009)

And then there is this article which states nanoparticles are not absorbed via the skin except through hair follicles (Gemany):
https://www.nanopartikel.info/en/nanoinfo/body-barriers/2080-nanoparticles-and-the-skin

An here is a compilation of several studies on the topic of nanoparticulate skin penetration (US - several pages of studies linked in this one article): 
https://www.science.gov/topicpages/n/nanoparticle+skin+penetration

More information about the Integumentary System, of which the skin is only a part (less technical, probably easier for the lay person, but still enough science for many of us):
https://biologydictionary.net/integumentary-system/

But the bottom line for me is that I know the skin absorbs some, but not all chemicals.  It is a barrier after all, but not an unpenetrable barrier for all things.  There is no such thing, IMO. 

But does the skin absorb something that is washed off immediately?  Well, in some cases yes, and in some cases, no.  Take my experience as a nurse.  I had to apply nitropaste to a patient.  I squeezed the required dose out of the tube onto the tape.  (This was before I donned my gloves, stupid mistake.)  I accidentally got some nitropaste on my finger tips.  I immediately washed my hands.  But I still got that horrendous nitropaste headache. (This was decades ago, and yes, I did learn an important lesson from this episode.)  So, yes, some things are absorbed quickly and can get into the blood stream in spite of how quickly they are washed off the surface.  But not all chemical compounds penetrate all layers of the skin this quickly and not all are able to pass through into the bloodstream.

So how does this relate to moisturizing?  Knowing that some agents (chemicals, oils, what-have-you) are able to penetrate to differing depths of the skin layers, how 'moisturizing' are these items if they are in soap? Doesn't it depend on a combination of how long they are in contact with the skin, how penetrable the particles actually are, and how soon they are washed off?  For a non-soap example, if I apply straight-up oil to my skin, and not wash it off at all, does that not penetrate my skin and therefore moisturize it?  Well, it depends on the oil.  Specifically, Babassu oil applied in this way to the skin of my hands penetrates my skin, but within minutes my hands feels quite dry and not moisturized.  I know because I have done it a few times, straight up babassu with nothing added.  Yet in my deodorant (with other additives), my pits don't feel dry and unmoisturized.  In fact, they feel more moisturized.  Go figure.  But if I apply olive oil to my skin, let it penetrate the layers, yes, my skin feels moisturized and stays that way for awhile with no resulting dryness after penetration.  Not sure why.  It just is, and may not be the same for all people.  

Does my skin feel better after using my own homemade soap?  Of course, otherwise I wouldn't be bothering with it.  But does it all moisturize?  I don't think it necessarily does, but the thing is, in the US at least, if we sell our soap, and if we claim it moisturizes, then our product is regulated as a COSMETIC.  If we don't want to have to deal with COSMETICs regulations, then we cannot claim our soap moisturizes.  If we have no problem with that, we can make that claim all we want, even if we cannot proove it to be the case.  (US specific regulations - not sure how this pertains to anywhere else.)


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## KiwiMoose (Mar 6, 2019)

Donee' said:


> I agree with you on the disgusting so called medicinal bars out there.
> 
> Having said the above - i must add that BALANCE between science and nature is key.  Cant just go and chuck your blood pressure tablets away because you found a herb that controls blood pressure now can you
> 
> ...



*Digs blood pressure pills back out from the bottom of the rubbish bin*


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## soapmaker (Mar 6, 2019)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> That for me is the crux. It might feel like that, but it doesn't mean that it is like that. And essentially those two questions can have opposite answers: does a soap moisturise? Does your soap make you FEEL moisturised?


Sorry, for me, it's just not that important. I don't make any claims on my labels. So I'm just happy to not feel itchy. I sell my soap and let my happy customers decide what they want to say about it. And I don't try to convince anyone of anything.


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## lenarenee (Mar 6, 2019)

Thanks for the articles Earlene!


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## Hendejm (Mar 6, 2019)

soapmaker said:


> Sorry, for me, it's just not that important. I don't make any claims on my labels. So I'm just happy to not feel itchy. I sell my soap and let my happy customers decide what they want to say about it. And I don't try to convince anyone of anything.


That’s probably the best answer yet!!!


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## hungryhawaiian (Mar 6, 2019)

On break at work, checking out Reddit when I come across this post about baby soap not burning the eyes while regular soap burns like hell.... 

Second paragraph he/she mentions moisture and I about lost my shhhhh laughing, after all the discussion we’ve had here in this thread....


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## Dean (Mar 6, 2019)

hungryhawaiian said:


> On break at work, checking out Reddit when I come across this post about baby soap not burning the eyes while regular soap burns like hell....
> 
> Second paragraph he/she mentions moisture and I about lost my shhhhh laughing, after all the discussion we’ve had here in this thread....



Interesting article.  My early soaps use to burn my eyes.  I attributed it to the short cure time.  Maybe that wasnt the cause for the stinging after all.  Those early soaps also had very high cleansing values.    I think unnecessarily high cleansing values is one of the most common newbie mistakes.


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## Meena (Mar 6, 2019)

@Hendejm's description most closely fits how I think about all this.  Here's why.

I had been washing my face with the same soap for about 7 years, but last year my lower face started pulling into weird 'folds' after washing, which I would then get rid of with my moisturizer -- hopefully before anyone saw me!   When I joined SMF and started seeing that coconut oil was highly stripping (cleansing), I knew I had to get rid of my beloved coconut oil based soap.  However, I thought that I "should" stay kind of middle-ish on the SoapCalc numbers, and also felt I needed coconut for the hardness and bubbles.  I've laid out all my soap properties and formulas on an "at a glance" sheet, so I know that my soaps 1 through 9 have cleansing numbers of 17, 16, 16, 18, 14, 14, 13, and 5.  (Yes that's 8, not 9.  My 8th soap was never intended for use, only for the Feb challenge. And yes, it took me a frightful amount of time to reduce the coconut oil enough!!)

I've not had the chance to try the C-5 soap yet, it's 10 days old today, and just made my 10th batch at C-0 (which really isn't true, but SoapCalc doesn't handle Olive Oil correctly, at least in terms of the cleansing #).  But I have tried all the other soaps.  This is what happened:

All my soaps have ameliorated the weird alien-face pulling, but I still feel varying amounts of tightness.  After washing my face with the first few soaps, there was a short delay before some tightness set in.  With the C-14 and 13 soaps, there's a longer delay of 2 or 3 minutes before I have to reach for the moisturizer.  I am expecting that with the C-5 and C-0, whether I moisturize will become a choice rather than a necessity.  Why?  I've had plenty of my own skin oil most of my life (Sicilian = grease bucket!!), and still have more than some people regardless of age.  It is appearing that, to the extent I can leave my own skin oils intact, my skin feels not necessarily moisturIZED, but still moist -- or what's that word having to do with oil? Has an emollient feel, maybe.  I think it just doesn't feel dehydrated, as I get closer to my ideal soap formula.

The oils in soap are no longer oils after saponification, and my SF is kept in the 1% - 3% range.  [Most of the time, only 1 or 2% to ensure I never have a lye-heavy result.]  What I mean is that, in my case, I don't think the beneficial result is a function of what oils were used or traces that may remain, but of gentleness and *less* disturbance to the oils which are part of the skin's protective _acid mantle_.


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## Donee' (Mar 7, 2019)

Loving this thread - learning so much - thanks guys - and not one single person has been crucified - awesomeness!
I still think more information needs to be found out about skin and not soap.
Now of course - another touchy subject - when and where to sell your soaps?

I will start a new thread for the anti-bug soap.  Because I have a 9 in 1 soap as well.

We dont have Dr Bronners here - anyone used it?  Is it as fabulous as they say?


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## Meena (Mar 7, 2019)

Donee' said:


> Loving this thread - learning so much - thanks guys - and not one single person has been crucified - awesomeness!
> I still think more information needs to be found out about skin and not soap.
> Now of course - another touchy subject - when and where to sell your soaps?



I came way too late to this party.  Looks like they've all gone home, Donee'. 



Donee' said:


> We dont have Dr Bronners here - anyone used it?  Is it as fabulous as they say?



It's great camping soap.  That was pretty much its start, the liquid stuff pitched as a good environmental choice for campers.  I'd never wash my face with it, and it's pretty cleansing, but I've always kept some in the house.  They make bars now, too, and I've loved the Peppermint one in the summer, but the Hemp Rose is my true favorite.  But $4.50 or more a bar, I can't have that be my regular soap, especially since it doesn't last a long time.  It has been my "treat" soap.  I'll send you a bar or two, if you'd like.


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## Donee' (Mar 7, 2019)

Meena said:


> I came way too late to this party.  Looks like they've all gone home, Donee'.


I just woke up
the wonders of living on the dark side of the moon
But maybe just maybe I will get some soap work done today


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## Meena (Mar 7, 2019)

Donee' said:


> I just woke up
> the wonders of living on the dark side of the moon
> But maybe just maybe I will get some soap work done today



It's past my bedtime, lol!  Ah, the lands "down under"!!  Hope your day is as productive as you'd wish.


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## KiwiMoose (Mar 7, 2019)

I just got home from work - between us all we're 24/7 soaping!


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## Teresa408 (Mar 7, 2019)

So I have felt in my super noob opinion that generally a soap being moisturizing, or feeling moisturizing is overall is a product of several things:

How stripping is the soap
How much oil does it leave behind
How much glycerine/humectant is present
What type of oils are left behind

The last one occurs to me more recently, as I am trying oil cleansing for my face again lately and I’m noticing the way some oils behave/react with my skin.


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## hungryhawaiian (Mar 7, 2019)

Donee' said:


> We dont have Dr Bronners here - anyone used it?  Is it as fabulous as they say?



I’ve had the same bottle of Dr Bronners peppermint soap in my bathroom for almost two years. I tried washing with it but it really burns on my um.... man parts, and I definitely can’t use my fingers to take out my contacts after washing with it. Oh, and during the winter it makes it feel like I’m naked in Alaska in the middle of a blizzard... So I only use it on hot days in the summer, oddly enough when I’m not actually working in Alaska during the summer lol.

The citrus scent is good but in general I’m not a liquid soap kind of person. Body washes, lotions, creams and liquid soap actually gross me out. Just another one of my ocd’s...


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## Marilyn Norgart (Mar 7, 2019)

hungryhawaiian said:


> I’ve had the same bottle of Dr Bronners peppermint soap in my bathroom for almost two years. I tried washing with it but it really burns on my um.... man parts, and I definitely can’t use my fingers to take out my contacts after washing with it. Oh, and during the winter it makes it feel like I’m naked in Alaska in the middle of a blizzard..



hmmmm I made a bar of just peppermint.  haven't tried it yet--now I am kinda scared to  .   I did send one to my son and daughter in law--better warn them about their privates.  I need to grab a bar for my morning shower I think--oh boy!!


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## Dean (Mar 7, 2019)

Meena said:


> I've laid out all my soap properties and formulas on an "at a glance" sheet, so I know that my soaps 1 through 9 have cleansing numbers of 17, 16, 16, 18, 14, 14, 13, and 5.  (Yes that's 8, not 9.  My 8th soap was never intended for use, only for the Feb challenge. And yes, it took me a frightful amount of time to reduce the coconut oil enough!!)
> 
> I've not had the chance to try the C-5 soap yet, it's 10 days old today, and just made my 10th batch at C-0 (which really isn't true, but SoapCalc doesn't handle Olive Oil correctly, at least in terms of the cleansing #).  But I have tried all the other soaps.  This is what happened:
> 
> All my soaps have ameliorated the weird alien-face pulling, but I still feel varying amounts of tightness.  After washing my face with the first few soaps, there was a short delay before some tightness set in.  With the C-14 and 13 soaps, there's a longer delay of 2 or 3 minutes before I have to reach for the moisturizer.  I am expecting that with the C-5 and C-0, whether I moisturize will become a choice rather than a necessity.



I had similar results.  As I stepped dn the cleansing valued the amt of time b4 I needed moisterizer shortened.  Even when I got to 0 I still needed moisterizer but later.  Im intetested to know ur results for C5 and C0.  Please share when they r ready.

Im currently soaping at C7 myself. 

Just started showering my version of the @Zany_in_CO zoap (C-O) although I’m not crazy bout the low lather and oleic gel, my skin felt amazing after.  My hands were SO soft.  Im going to give this recipie some more thought.  

Btrw...I was an Italian grease bkt until accutane and then later when I entered my 50s when my skin totally dried out. 

@Donee' Bronner was my go to soap until I started making my own.  It was good at the time but not fab.  I have some liquid that Im using up for hand washing.  Its very drying compared to my bars.


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## cmzaha (Mar 7, 2019)

Marilyn Norgart said:


> hmmmm I made a bar of just peppermint.  haven't tried it yet--now I am kinda scared to  .   I did send one to my son and daughter in law--better warn them about their privates.  I need to grab a bar for my morning shower I think--oh boy!!


Do not use Peppermint soap on girlie parts, you will be hating it  I put a warning label on my Peppermint EO soaps, it does not happen with Fo or not with any Peppermint FO I have tried. It will burn most mucous membrane.


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## Donee' (Mar 7, 2019)

Dean said:


> I had similar results.  As I stepped dn the cleansing valued the amt of time b4 I needed moisterizer shortened.  Even when I got to 0 I still needed moisterizer but later.  Im intetested to know ur results for C5 and C0.  Please share when they r ready.
> 
> Im currently soaping at C7 myself.
> 
> ...


I have just heard so much about bronners - it seems like the miracle "organic" soap that all the vegans go for.  It also seems to be a multi-tasker soap.


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## cmzaha (Mar 7, 2019)

I hate Bronners


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## Meena (Mar 7, 2019)

Donee' said:


> I have just heard so much about bronners - it seems like the miracle "organic" soap that all the vegans go for.  It also seems to be a multi-tasker soap.



It's a multi tasker alright.  It was the organic go to because it was the pioneer and all we had competing with Lever  Bros. et alia. 
I would have bought it forever if I didn't start making my own. 
I always diluted it, which is or was the directions.  It would be more cleansing if undiluted .


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## Donee' (Mar 7, 2019)

Meena said:


> It's a multi tasker alright.  It was the organic go to because it was the pioneer and all we had competing with Lever  Bros. et alia.
> I would have bought it forever if I didn't start making my own.
> I always diluted it, which is or was the directions.  It would be more cleansing if undiluted .


But there is just no going back when you make your own soap
And everyone will agree on that one!


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## Marilyn Norgart (Mar 7, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> Do not use Peppermint soap on girlie parts, you will be hating it  I put a warning label on my Peppermint EO soaps, it does not happen with Fo or not with any Peppermint FO I have tried. It will burn most mucous membrane.



I must not have used enough cuz it was a very refreshing shower--loved the smell and no burn. mine is an EO


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## dibbles (Mar 7, 2019)

Marilyn Norgart said:


> I must not have used enough cuz it was a very refreshing shower--loved the smell and no burn. mine is an EO


If you were happy with the amount of scent and didn’t have any bad reactions, I’d say you used just the right amount.


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## IrishLass (Mar 7, 2019)

I find Dr. Bronners to be great for cleaning things rather than my actual body, because it's just way too cleansing/drying to my skin. With the first 3 ingredients being Coconut oil, KOH and PKO, it's no wonder. My brother bought a gallon container of it once with which to shower, and after just one use he removed it from the shower and relegated it to the cleaning closet to be used as a cleanser for his toilet instead. lol



cmzaha said:


> Do not use Peppermint soap on girlie parts, you will be hating it



Or on guy parts either. I make what I find to be a lovely, refreshing peppermint soap with WSP's Peppermint Stick FO, which my hubby and son promptly dubbed the "Evil Soap' after just one use. Yeahhhhh..... it's the only soap of mine that they steer clear of.  I love using it in the summertime when temps soar into the triple digits. I only ever use enough of the FO to feel refreshing to me without burning, but apparently my 'just enough' turned out to be way too much for them.



			
				cmzaha said:
			
		

> it does not happen with Fo or not with any Peppermint FO I have tried.



You should try WSP's Peppermint Stick.....or on second thought, maybe not. 


IrishLass


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## Marilyn Norgart (Mar 7, 2019)

IrishLass said:


> I only ever use enough of the FO to feel refreshing to me without burning, but apparently my 'just enough' turned out to be way too much for them.



peppermint pansies haha--sounds like some people don't have a problem with peppermint


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## hungryhawaiian (Mar 7, 2019)

Marilyn Norgart said:


> peppermint pansies haha--sounds like some people don't have a problem with peppermint



Peppermint candy is great. Peppermint penis, not so much. At least not the peppermint in Dr Bronners. Even diluted it is too much for me, down there...


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## Marilyn Norgart (Mar 7, 2019)

hungryhawaiian said:


> Peppermint candy is great. Peppermint penis, not so much. At least not the peppermint in Dr Bronners. Even diluted it is too much for me, down there...


 
well I have had peppermint candy but never a peppermint penis


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## Clarice (Mar 7, 2019)

My sister and her husband went camping and kayaking in the Boundary Waters, where you have to pack out everything you take in, use only certain kinds of soap, and bury your scat.  

My sister tells a great story of her husband's first bath in the lake.  She had inadvertently bought Dr. B's Peppermint.  One minute he was happily splashing about in the water, the next he was leaping about screaming like a lunatic, scaring wildlife for miles around.  Yep, you guessed it, Dr. B on the P.  

He still winces and crosses his legs whenever my sister tells the story.  

I personally find Dr. B INCREDIBLY stripping and uncomfortable to use.  Since before I knew this I happened on a great SALE, I have quite a few bottles that are now toilet soap, sink soap, man-hand (but not naughty bits) soap.  

The Blog "Oh The Things We Will Make" has a Dr. B copy recipe, and she ALSO has a true castile liquid soap (meaning 100% olive oil).  I have made this true castile and I do not find it drying like the Dr. B.  So - while soap may not be considered moisturizing from a purist standpoint, it can strip the living daylights out of your skin - or not!  Which is why I try to limit the CO i use in my soaps!


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## dixiedragon (Mar 7, 2019)

Going way back to your original post - I strongly feel that we should not be scolding when somebody asks about moisturizing soap, because soap and "soap" (such as Dove) are frequently advertised this way. I would say here that generally speaking, people don't scold but they can be very factual and come off as a bit brusque.

People want to make "lye free soap" - melt and pour soap used lye in its manufacture just like CP. But it's advertised by ill-informed (or dishonest) sellers as being "lye free" unlike that bad ol' soap over there made with LYE! So sometimes forum members can feel kind of defensive about it. 

I would say to all veteran board members - if you feel exasperated by seeing the same questions from newbies, just step away from the keyboard! We may have gone over it 3 days ago, but they just joined 2 days ago! I've had a few times when I had a thought of, "Not this AGAIN!" and made myself leave that thread.


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## Clarice (Mar 7, 2019)

Well Said! @dixiedragon 

I am 10,000,000% sure I have asked many a question that have caused folks to  roll their eyes, and I appreciate the patience that most have shown  me!  

I also think as our knowledge expands and morphs our views change.  Look back at when ads for menthol cigarettes featured doctors saying "good for a sore throat"!!!  

Who knows what will be discovered tomorrow?


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## Meena (Mar 7, 2019)

Dean said:


> I had similar results.  As I stepped dn the cleansing valued ....
> Even when I got to 0 I still needed moisterizer but later.  Im intetested to know ur results for C5 and C0.  Please share when they r ready.
> Im currently soaping at C7 myself.
> Just started showering my version of the @Zany_in_CO zoap (C-O) although I’m not crazy bout the low lather and oleic gel, my skin felt amazing after.  My hands were SO soft.  Im going to give this recipie some more thought.
> ...



I definitely will share, Paisano!   
My skin got much drier in my 50s, but then seemed to come back toward the middle, as if rebalancing itself, so I hope that you will have the same occurrence. 

My C-0 is based on Zany's castille, but only 48% olive since so many here say they don't like castille, and others find OO drying.  I've been afraid of making something that I might not like, so finally decided to "split the difference," so to speak.  I did use the faux seawater, and I'm pretty excited to test this out in a couple weeks, during the cure.  I'll get to test the C-5 sooner, probably by next Friday, but it too will be in mid-cure.


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## Terri E (Mar 7, 2019)

Zany_in_CO said:


> I like washing with soap that leaves my skin feeling moisturized. 'Nuff  said.


 
Exactly


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## Amy78130 (Mar 8, 2019)

There is a definite disconnect between soap making and cosmetics. I’ve also seen it first hand and agree that the moisturizing properties of soap are much different from the moisturizing properties of creams and lotions. It’s like comparing apples to oranges, they’re so different but both good for you in the end. Soap cleanses the skin, but there are definitely varying levels. A 100% coconut soap would wreck skin, but adding a 20%super fat wouldn’t be so bad. I love soap making but also love lotion. I use soap to cleanse, but choose a balanced bar that doesn’t strip the moisture from my skin. Then I apply lotion to keep my skin soft. Obvious, I know... But still an obvious contradiction.


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## Clarice (Mar 8, 2019)

I finally got my copy of Catherine Failor's book on liquid soap, and I laughed out loud when I read on the cover:

"Moisturizing Hand Soaps"

SMILE!


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## hungryhawaiian (Mar 8, 2019)

Clarice said:


> I finally got my copy of Catherine Failor's book on liquid soap, and I laughed out loud when I read on the cover:
> 
> "Moisturizing Hand Soaps"
> 
> SMILE!



THAT is exactly why I posted this thread topic. Almost all the physical books I’ve read on soaping mention “moisturizing” soaps. . . But, as seen here, there is no definitive proof of it being moisturizing, just lots of opinions and speculation based on other factors.


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## Clarice (Mar 8, 2019)

hungryhawaiian said:


> THAT is exactly why I posted this thread topic. Almost all the physical books I’ve read on soaping mention “moisturizing” soaps.


I thought it particularly amusing as she seems to be a legend in the soap making world! 

My Mom always said "in any given room there are probably as many opinions as mouths"  How true!


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## IrishLass (Mar 8, 2019)

Clarice said:


> My Mom always said "in any given room there are probably as many opinions as mouths"  How true!



A friend of mine is fond of saying, "Opinions are like noses. Everybody's got one, but it usually has a couple of holes in it." lol


IrishLass


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## KiwiMoose (Mar 8, 2019)

hungryhawaiian said:


> Peppermint candy is great. Peppermint penis, not so much. At least not the peppermint in Dr Bronners. Even diluted it is too much for me, down there...


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## Dean (Mar 8, 2019)

How did we go from moisturizing soap to peppermint p3n!s?   Someone needs to steer this bus out of the gutter!



Seriously, Im reconsidering the “conditioning” property on account how soft my skin feels after washing with AO/CB soap.  I always considered HO filler but now I’m having second thoughts.  I think I may be returning to the lab...


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 8, 2019)

If anyone can get us out, Sandra Bullock can!  Nice gloves ya got there, Dean. Perks up the lab ensemble.


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## Dean (Mar 8, 2019)

Zany_in_CO said:


> If anyone can get us out, Sandra Bullock can!  Nice gloves ya got there, Dean. Perks up the lab ensemble.



Thx Zany.  Who says soaping can’t be glamorous?

Ur zea water has my head spinning.  I think the next batch of my stnd recipe will significantly drop the SW, increase the AO and use zea water to make it hard and glossy.


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 8, 2019)

Good luck! But I do think AO has a lot to do with the glossy finish... but whattaiknow?


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## hungryhawaiian (Mar 9, 2019)

Was researching beer soap recipes and then stumbled upon this:




lol The debate is never ending! But really, I’m over it. Moisturizing or not, I love making soap and don’t even really care if it’s moisturizing or not. In fact, I get severely grossed out at greasy, slimy or wet products on my skin. I don’t use lotions, body wash, liquid soaps (with the exception of Dr B on a hot summer day). Heck, I can barley stand using liquid shampoo and conditioner. Which bring me to the next thing I need to research.... Shampoo bars!


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## KiwiMoose (Mar 9, 2019)

hungryhawaiian said:


> Was researching beer soap recipes and then stumbled upon this:View attachment 37343
> 
> 
> lol The debate is never ending! But really, I’m over it. Moisturizing or not, I love making soap and don’t even really care if it’s moisturizing or not. In fact, I get severely grossed out at greasy, slimy or wet products on my skin. I don’t use lotions, body wash, liquid soaps (with the exception of Dr B on a hot summer day). Heck, I can barley stand using liquid shampoo and conditioner. Which bring me to the next thing I need to research.... Shampoo bars!


Well he (she) is a doctor so he/she would know!


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## Marilyn Norgart (Mar 9, 2019)

hungryhawaiian said:


> Was researching beer soap recipes and then stumbled upon this:View attachment 37343
> 
> 
> lol The debate is never ending! But really, I’m over it. Moisturizing or not, I love making soap and don’t even really care if it’s moisturizing or not. In fact, I get severely grossed out at greasy, slimy or wet products on my skin. I don’t use lotions, body wash, liquid soaps (with the exception of Dr B on a hot summer day). Heck, I can barley stand using liquid shampoo and conditioner. Which bring me to the next thing I need to research.... Shampoo bars!



yeah the debate will never end//that's gonna happen any time people have passions


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## beckster51 (Mar 9, 2019)

Dean said:


> How did we go from moisturizing soap to peppermint p3n!s?   Someone needs to steer this bus out of the gutter!
> View attachment 37336
> 
> Seriously, Im reconsidering the “conditioning” property on account how soft my skin feels after washing with AO/CB soap.  I always considered HO filler but now I’m having second thoughts.  I think I may be returning to the lab...
> View attachment 37341



Dean, I am often abbreviation-challenged.  I can't figure out what AO/CB soap, even though I read back through this thread.  DUH, please be kind.


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## Dean (Mar 9, 2019)

beckster51 said:


> Dean, I am often abbreviation-challenged.  I can't figure out what AO/CB soap, even though I read back through this thread.  DUH, please be kind.



Almond Oil
Cocoa Butter


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## beckster51 (Mar 9, 2019)

Dean said:


> Almond Oil
> Cocoa Butter


Thanks, Dean!


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## LBV (Mar 10, 2019)

I find soaps really good for my skin. I have chemical sensitivities and using most of the liquid hand cleansers from the supermarket makes my hands dry and my skin cracks. I started soap making because I discovered the soap I was using contained palm oil. 
I made my first hand soap and gave some to friends. They liked it so much they now buy my soap.


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## earlene (Mar 22, 2019)

Dean said:


> How did we go from moisturizing soap to peppermint p3n!s?   Someone needs to steer this bus out of the gutter!
> View attachment 37336
> 
> Seriously, Im reconsidering the “conditioning” property on account how soft my skin feels after washing with AO/CB soap.  I always considered HO filler but now I’m having second thoughts.  I think I may be returning to the lab...
> View attachment 37341


But I loved that story!  I just shared it with my husband.  Although, it makes me wonder about people who bathe in rivers with soap.  I know, I did it when I was young, but being almost 70, I have to say, very few people were addressing the ill effects of river bathing at the time.  Now I think of what would I have done if I knew then what I know now of the ill effects of river bathing on all things down-river from the bather.


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## Clarice (Mar 22, 2019)

@earlene  - Dr. Bronner's soap is on the list of "approved" items to take into The BOundary Waters (according to my sister) so they must have decided it has minimal (or at least far less) effect on those downstream.  They are pretty doggone strict up there.  

I know, I know, OT, I just thumped myself upside the head.  

Having given myself the thump, however, I would like to point out that I brought it back to moisturizing


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## earlene (Mar 22, 2019)

Clarice said:


> @earlene  - Dr. Bronner's soap is on the list of "approved" items to take into The BOundary Waters (according to my sister) so they must have decided it has minimal (or at least far less) effect on those downstream.  They are pretty doggone strict up there.
> 
> I know, I know, OT, I just thumped myself upside the head.
> 
> Having given myself the thump, however, I would like to point out that I brought it back to moisturizing




But not just the soap, the possibility of bacterial, fecal, and other contamination from the human would be a concern, as well, right?  

I know, I know, not on topic, but the point I was really making, not just about soap in our waterways.


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## spiraleyesoap (Apr 1, 2019)

@hungryhawaiian  I can tell you WHY they jump on you - many of the people in the FB groups and in the US, aspire to sell their soap. Unless you're going to consider your soap a cosmetic, (Which comes with many other conditions, like FDA rules & regs that soap alone does not have) you legally cannot call soap anything other than cleansing. 

@Marilyn Norgart Similar to the above, shampoo is a cosmetic, and soap is not. 

From Marie Gale (who wrote the book on labeling requirements for soap),"soap must be the alkali salt of fatty acids (that is, made with lye/oil/water – not a synthetic detergent) AND it must be marketed and sold as “soap”. That means the only claim can be that it cleans – no claims that could make it a cosmetic (moisturizing, soothing, otherwise changing the appearance) … for the product itself OR any of the ingredients. (For example, you can’t say that it contiains “moisturising” shea butter. (Shea butter, yes, but not “moisturizing”)."


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## Margo (Apr 1, 2019)

hungryhawaiian said:


> Ok people, what’s the deal with the term “moisturizing” in soaps? I’ve been scolded and seen other noobs get scolded for associating that word with soap. Apparently soap cannot be moisturizing?
> 
> In an FB soap group I was dang near burned at the stake for saying it a couple times. They’d say that soap is not moisturizing, but in a lot of the readings I’ve done and are currently doing, they all seem to have no problems saying that this recipe is moisturizing or that soap is moisturizing or add this to make it more moisturizing or take away that to make it moisturizing....
> 
> ...


It all depends on the individual's skin type and the fact that most soaps do not moisturize.  Leaving soap on your skin will only dry it out, unless the person is using my Aleppo soap.   I always recommend to my customers to pat dry their skin after cleansing.  Anyhow, the FCC states that if you make a statement such as "moisturizing" about your products that you are required to conduct clinical studies to prove it.


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## sudszensoaps (Apr 1, 2019)

hungryhawaiian said:


> Ok people, what’s the deal with the term “moisturizing” in soaps? I’ve been scolded and seen other noobs get scolded for associating that word with soap. Apparently soap cannot be moisturizing?
> 
> In an FB soap group I was dang near burned at the stake for saying it a couple times. They’d say that soap is not moisturizing, but in a lot of the readings I’ve done and are currently doing, they all seem to have no problems saying that this recipe is moisturizing or that soap is moisturizing or add this to make it more moisturizing or take away that to make it moisturizing....
> 
> ...



I thought that if you claim your soap is moisturizing, then you get into the realm of cosmetics which entails a whole different set of laws.


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## earlene (Apr 1, 2019)

sudszensoaps said:


> I thought that if you claim your soap is moisturizing, then you get into the realm of cosmetics which entails a whole different set of laws.



In the US, the regulations for labeling cosmetics (moisturizers are cosmetics in the US), so that is true.  But regulations elsewhere may be different, so it matters where the the seller (IF they sell) is selling their soap.


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## hungryhawaiian (Apr 3, 2019)

spiraleyesoap said:


> @hungryhawaiian  I can tell you WHY they jump on you - many of the people in the FB groups and in the US, aspire to sell their soap. Unless you're going to consider your soap a cosmetic, (Which comes with many other conditions, like FDA rules & regs that soap alone does not have) you legally cannot call soap anything other than cleansing.



I wish that was the case, but after being in that group for a while now, seeing all the comments on various posts, I highly doubt that’s the reason they did it. Without being too blunt, I just don’t think most of them have the capacity to think that way. 

I’ve mentioned it before and I’ll say it again, in the FB group’s, majority are less than helpful and downright disrespectful and/or ignorant. Opinions get thrown around as facts and if you don’t agree, get ready for a gangbash! 

Here on SMF, majority are extremely helpful and willing to educate with full disclosure of the credibility of said education. People can disagree here and still be civil. It’s awesome! 

I’ve definitely learned quite a bit about the “moisturizing“ properties of soap and how it plays into both selling and using. Very glad I made this thread.


----------

