# Preservative ini liquid soap



## Ruth (Jun 17, 2017)

Do I need preservative in my liquid soap with HEC thickening?


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## cmzaha (Jun 17, 2017)

I do and from what I have read recently thickeners, such as cellulose, are bug food


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## lsg (Jun 17, 2017)

I always use preservative in my diluted liquid soap no matter what I use to thicken it.  I do the same for shampoo and body washes.  Why take a chance?


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## Ruth (Jun 17, 2017)

What's kind of preservative?


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 18, 2017)

Fully saponified soap requires no preservative. Others are free to disagree. Different strokes for different folks!  I've been making LS for 13 years. Never had a problem.


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## Susie (Jun 18, 2017)

I don't use preservatives, either, but:

1.  I do not sell.  If I sold, I would use preservatives.
2.  I do not thicken mine, if I did, I would use preservative.

I do not know which preservative they use.


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## Ruth (Jun 18, 2017)

If don't use preservative how long the soap best to use?


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## gloopygloop (Jun 18, 2017)

I have never used a preservative and have not had any problem with spoilage, i also don't sell & probably would if I did. I imagine if the pH is around 10 then this should be enough to stop a lot of bugs. If using a preservative though I think something like Suttocide or its equivalent is used as it copes with a high pH and is more water soluble.


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## lsg (Jun 18, 2017)

You might want to read this thread:  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=42659
I use liquid Germall Plus as my preservative.


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## gloopygloop (Jun 18, 2017)

lsg said:


> You might want to read this thread:  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=42659
> I use liquid Germall Plus as my preservative.



I have never made cream soap and so cannot speak for that but have never had a problem with my LS and I have kept some back for a couple of years to see what happens and it has been fine, not rancid or mouldy. I did get rancid once when I had made using all water method and no glycerine, it smelled rancid after a couple of months, could be that there was a problem in my method at that time as it was early on I'm my soaping days.


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## gloopygloop (Jun 18, 2017)

lsg said:


> You might want to read this thread:  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=42659
> I use liquid Germall Plus as my preservative.



Germall Plus appears to be only useful from pH 3 to 8 and LS is usually higher than that unless of course you are lowering the pH with citric or lactic acid or the like. Suttocide will be effective with a higher pH I believe up to pH12 ish.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 18, 2017)

Off-label recommendation by cosmetic microbiologist -- Liquid Germall Plus is effective to pH 10. That's why it is suggested as an alternative to Suttocide. Glydant Plus is now another option. Source: http://www.makingskincare.com/preservatives/


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## gloopygloop (Jun 18, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> Off-label recommendation by cosmetic microbiologist -- Liquid Germall Plus is effective to pH 10. That's why it is suggested as an alternative to Suttocide. Glydant Plus is now another option. Source: http://www.makingskincare.com/preservatives/



I had read that too DeeAnna but not being an official statement I wouldn't feel comfortable going with it if I were choosing a preservative unless my own cosmetic Analyst had personally recommended such on my certificate which is why I would chooses Suttocide as a personal choice just to cover my you know what.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 18, 2017)

If you're in a country that requires safety assessments -- you didn't say where you live -- then by all means follow the rules. For those of us who don't have that requirement, Liquid Germall Plus is certainly an option to consider.


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## gloopygloop (Jun 18, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> If you're in a country that requires safety assessments -- you didn't say where you live -- then by all means follow the rules. For those of us who don't have that requirement, Liquid Germall Plus is certainly an option to consider.



Yes it must help not having to conform rules and regs, I am in the UK  so of course it is essential if one wishes to sell which I don't, even so I still would rather stick to guide lines from the manufacturer than a more loose quote which may or may not be true, but having said that I am sure that GP works fine it is just a matter of covering oneself and that feeling that you have done the right thing by what is recommended by the actual manufacturer. As I said i don't use one at all! and have not had problems. I think the original poster mentioned it was cream soap that had gone bad, it might be a different animal compared to LS I really don't know not having made cream soap., it is all a learning curve which is what makes soaping so interesting.


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## Susie (Jun 18, 2017)

I had a bottle of diluted soap that lasted almost three years before I saw ickies growing in it.  I dilute only a small amount of paste, enough to last about a month, at the time.  The paste lives in the fridge so I don't lose it.


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## lsg (Jun 18, 2017)

I have kept my paste in the refrigerator too, Susie.  That works well to dilute just what you need at the time.


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## cmzaha (Jun 18, 2017)

I agree that the paste does not need to be preserved, but once LS is diluted you are talking a lot of extra water. I have had both diluted LS and cream soap grow mold. I know preserve both and have never had any further problems. Better safe than sorry in my opinion


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## DeeAnna (Jun 18, 2017)

Some makers will dilute liquid soap to a modest % of actual soap and then thicken it with HEC, HPMC or other thickener. I think this increases the risk of microbial growth compared with liquid soap that has the desired thickness just by dilution with water only -- the % of actual soap is usually higher (not always, but often) and you're not adding additional organic material.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 18, 2017)

Ruth said:


> If don't use preservative how long the soap best to use?


This is just me, but I don't worry about shelf life with LS any more than I worry about shelf life with bar soap. Maybe it's because of the ROE and vitamin E I add to my oils, or possibly the essential oils, some of which are known to have "preservative qualities". 

SHORT STORY:
I was purging my B & B supply cabinets the other day when I came across a 4-oz, sealed, bottle of shampoo made in 2007 that I forgot I had. It is my favorite shampoo -- flaxseed oil with 10% coconut and 10% rosin. I took the seal off, gave it a sniff, and, since it smelled fresh, I used it to wash my hair. No worries.

NOTE: ROSIN saponifies much like an oil but without any resulting glycerin. It gives a smooth cold cream finish to the lather and also acts as a detergent and *preservative*. Calculate - Rosin has the same SAP value as Wheat Germ Oil. (NOTE: May cause contact dermatitis in sensitive individuals).

I know many soapers I respect use preservative, and that's their choice. But it makes no sense to me. Before I learned to make soap, I tried a few so-called "natural" shampoos on the market -- Jason, Avalon, etc. If I remember correctly, they contained a preservative and they always smelled funky after about 6 months. Ugh. Plus, there is no preservative specifically formulated for lye-based liquid soap. Why would there be? As an alkaline product, i.e., nasties don't survive in an alkaline environment, why waste the money?

On the other hand, Dr. Bronner's liquid soap has been around since the hippie days and contains no preservative, zero, zip, none, nada. That's the liquid soap I aspire to. Also, some of the largest manufacturers on the  groups I've been a member of always pipe up during this topic to say they never use preservative.

As for the "rather safe than sorry" argument for using a preservative, I could use the same argument for NOT using preservative. I've read enough about what can happen when a preservative is introduced into a non-compatible environment to have the same fear!

Just my take on it. 'Nuff said.


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## biarine (Jun 19, 2017)

Zany_in_CO said:


> This is just me, but I don't worry about shelf life with LS any more than I worry about shelf life with bar soap. Maybe it's because of the ROE and vitamin E I add to my oils, or possibly the essential oils, some of which are known to have "preservative qualities".
> 
> SHORT STORY:
> I was purging my B & B supply cabinets the other day when I came across a 4-oz, sealed, bottle of shampoo made in 2007 that I forgot I had. It is my favorite shampoo -- flaxseed oil with 10% coconut and 10% rosin. I took the seal off, gave it a sniff, and, since it smelled fresh, I used it to wash my hair. No worries.
> ...




I am a newbie in liquid soaping but I do agreed with you. Dr B has no preservatives except of vitamin E. My friend she buying dr Bronner's the biggest bottle and took her more than a year to finish but no problem.


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## Susie (Jun 19, 2017)

biarine said:


> I am a newbie in liquid soaping but I do agreed with you. Dr B has no preservatives except of vitamin E. My friend she buying dr Bronner's the biggest bottle and took her more than a year to finish but no problem.



Tell her you can make better liquid soap than Dr. Bronner, and sell it to her much cheaper.


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## Ruth (Jun 19, 2017)

Oke I will try my own LS without preservative first n see. I am very thankfull for All of You who share your experiances to me, I m so gratefull, this group encourage me some much. My dreams can make LS like Dr.B


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## gloopygloop (Jun 19, 2017)

Ruth said:


> Oke I will try my own LS without preservative first n see. I am very thankfull for All of You who share your experiances to me, I m so gratefull, this group encourage me some much. My dreams can make LS like Dr.B



You will make like Dr B only better cos you are not mass manufacturing so you can tweak about to add anything which helps to improve it which is not cost effective with mass manufacture usually. We never stop leaning and I too enjoy the knowledge of this forum and the generosity of those who share so much. Oh and don't forget any failure isn't failure as such it is just a lesson and the best way to learn and improve.


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## Susie (Jun 19, 2017)

Ruth said:


> Oke I will try my own LS without preservative first n see. I am very thankfull for All of You who share your experiances to me, I m so gratefull, this group encourage me some much. My dreams can make LS like Dr.B



Go make the soap in post #8 of this: 

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46114

And know that you can make soap MUCH better than Dr. B.


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## Ruth (Jun 19, 2017)

Thank You some much, I am newbie with a lot or curiousity this forum help ke some much.


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## biarine (Jun 19, 2017)

Susie said:


> Tell her you can make better liquid soap than Dr. Bronner, and sell it to her much cheaper.




Thank you Susie, I am can't sell but once in a while I given her my liquid soap that's why she buying Dr B because she like liquid soap that I given her. Every 3 months I give her a bar of soap too.


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