# Increase super fat or soft oils to increase moisture



## anniet8777 (Oct 25, 2017)

Hello, I’m new to soapmaking and just made my 4th batch today with goats milk. I’ve slightly revised each recipe each time since I’m looking for my perfect recipe. I’m just about there but wondering what is the best way for me to make my bar a little bit more moisturizing? I have dry skin so I’m trying to find a good balance between hard bar along with it being moisturizing. 
Today’s recipe was 12% babassu oil, 10% coconut oil, 23% palm oil, 10% Shea Butter, 5% cocoa butter, 25% olive oil, 10% avocado oil, 5% castor oil using all goats milk in place of water and a 7% super fat. Should I go up on the super fat or should I do 55% hard oils and 45% soft oils instead of my current 60/40? Thanks! Any advice would be appreciated


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## Kamahido (Oct 25, 2017)

Babassu Oil and Coconut Oil are both cleansing oils. I would pick one and omit the other and add the remaining percentage to the Palm Oil.


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## lionprincess00 (Oct 25, 2017)

Technically you cannot make soap more moisturizing, you can just make it less stripping. You have 22% of stripping oils in there. It might just be too high for you. I would reduce it down to 18%. A higher super fat doesn't necessarily make it better 4 dry skin. I actually make mine with 2% super fat and less coconut oil so that I get more soap out of it so to speak, but it is not a stripping. Some people are sensitive to coconut oil so you might just try 18 or 17% babasau oil instead as a little experiment. On a side note if you're not using citric acid, sodium citrate, or EDTA you might be having some soap scum if your water is hard. Soap scum left on the skin can make you itch and feel dried out and kind of flaky as well. I use sodium citrate and it helped that issue also.


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## anniet8777 (Oct 25, 2017)

I have soft water so the soap rinses off nicely. I do think I may be more sensitive to the coconut oil. My first 2 recipes I used all coconut oil but decided with my last recipe to incorporate the babassu to see if it helps my skin since I’ve read it’s less harsh. Since babassu is more expensive I decided to use half coconut/half babassu. So if I use 10% babassu and 8% coconut just add the 4% to the palm?


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## toxikon (Oct 25, 2017)

I find that high-lard recipes provide more creaminess and feel less-stripping on the skin. If you have access to lard, I'd recommend swapping it for the palm to see how you like it. I'd modify your recipe to something like this:

40% Lard
30% Olive Oil/Avocado (or mix)
15% Coconut/Babassu (or mix)
10% Shea/Cocoa (or mix)
5% Castor

3-5% superfat (I'd go lower than 7% if you're using full goat milk, which will contribute to the superfat)

Also keep in mind that the longer a soap ages, the milder it will become. A fresh soap, regardless of recipe, will probably feel stripping. Give it a good 6 weeks before you judge it.


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## anniet8777 (Oct 25, 2017)

Perfect! Thanks! My last recipe was the first time I used lard and it was a disaster. I may not have mixed it long enough bc the trace was very thin. Then after it cooked in crockpot for an hour, poured into mold and released from mold after 24 hrs, the soap was like play doe. It never hardened so I rebatched it and it’s harder today. I got kinda scared away from the lard and went back to the palm but I’d really like to be able to succeed with the lard. The recipe I used was babassu/coconut 20%, lard 25%, shea/cocoa 15%, olive/avocado 35%, castor 5% at 8% superfat using coffee /aloe juice instead of water. 
I’m making another batch early next week with beer so I’ll try your recipe with that.


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## toxikon (Oct 25, 2017)

anniet8777 said:


> Perfect! Thanks! My last recipe was the first time I used lard and it was a disaster. I may not have mixed it long enough bc the trace was very thin. Then after it cooked in crockpot for an hour, poured into mold and released from mold after 24 hrs, the soap was like play doe. It never hardened so I rebatched it and it’s harder today. I got kinda scared away from the lard and went back to the palm but I’d really like to be able to succeed with the lard. The recipe I used was babassu/coconut 20%, lard 25%, shea/cocoa 15%, olive/avocado 35%, castor 5% at 8% superfat using coffee /aloe juice instead of water.
> I’m making another batch early next week with beer so I’ll try your recipe with that.



Hmmmm, weird! Lard does take a long time to trace sometimes. If you find yourself on the verge of burning out your stickblender's motor, it's okay to walk away for a few minutes, then return and give it another pulse or two. Rinse and repeat until it's the thickness you prefer.

Are you mainly doing hot process or cold process?

I pretty much only do cold process, but I've never had any issues with high-lard recipes. They firm up nicely for me. I do use a water discount - usually around 35% Lye Concentration.


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## anniet8777 (Oct 25, 2017)

I just put the lard recipe in the calculator and it has a cleansing of 11 and bubbly at 15. Does your skin feel clean with it? And does it get bubbly at all or do you add in sugars to make it more bubbly?


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## anniet8777 (Oct 25, 2017)

I only do hot process with the crockpot and my immersion blender did crash on me during that process. First and last time using it


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## toxikon (Oct 25, 2017)

You'll probably find that the more experience you get, the less you'll rely on those numbers that the soap calculators tell you. They definitely don't give you the full picture. I don't even bother glancing at them anymore, haha!

I've used a similar recipe to the one I mentioned above many times, and it's a lovely bar. Nice creamy, bubbly lather. I do like to add 1 tbsp sugar ppo (per pound of oils) to all my recipes to give the bubbles a little boost.


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## penelopejane (Oct 25, 2017)

I'd cut the coconut and babassu to 10% total or cut it altogether and increase the OO but that's just my preference.

With a SF of 7% plus GM your SF is about 10% which is far higher than I like so I definitely wouldn't increase it.


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## anniet8777 (Oct 25, 2017)

So one more question, I bought my lard at Walmart. I got both the Armour Lard and the Armour premium all natural lard. Does it matter which one I use the premium was double the price.


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## mx5inpenn (Oct 25, 2017)

anniet8777 said:


> So one more question, I bought my lard at Walmart. I got both the Armour Lard and the Armour premium all natural lard. Does it matter which one I use the premium was double the price.


Doesn't matter a bit. I use the regular.


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## toxikon (Oct 25, 2017)

Same. I just buy the regular stuff, works great.


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## Kamahido (Oct 25, 2017)

anniet8777 said:


> So one more question, I bought my lard at Walmart. I got both the Armour Lard and the Armour premium all natural lard. Does it matter which one I use the premium was double the price.


It does not matter as long as it is 100% lard.


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## Susie (Oct 25, 2017)

All of the above regarding lard!  It will have some BHT in it, but that is fine.  It is what I use all the time.  They sell Armour lard in 25 lb pails where I live around Christmas. 

As an aside, how long are you curing your bars?


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## anniet8777 (Oct 25, 2017)

Susie said:


> All of the above regarding lard!  It will have some BHT in it, but that is fine.  It is what I use all the time.  They sell Armour lard in 25 lb pails where I live around Christmas.
> 
> As an aside, how long are you curing your bars?



Since I’m using hot process I sample a bit the day I remove from molds but I’ve been keeping the sliced bars out to cure. I’ve not stored them yet. They’re just collecting on my craft table. I was thinking up to 4 weeks then store in lunch type paper bags so they can breath? I don’t have a ton of space and my house tends to be dusty so I dont want to keep them exposed to the air indefinitely.

I feel like I’m becoming addicted to making soap. I want to try that recommended lard recipe tonight. 

I did one cold process recipe 3 weeks ago which was my first batch but I’m too horribly impatient to wait the 4 to 6 weeks to try. So I switched to hot process and love it!


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## toxikon (Oct 25, 2017)

anniet8777 said:


> I did one cold process recipe 3 weeks ago which was my first batch but I’m too horribly impatient to wait the 4 to 6 weeks to try. So I switched to hot process and love it!



Just to be clear - hot process and cold process require the same curing time. It's a myth that hot process cures faster, unfortunately. Hot process does complete the "saponification" process faster (the chemical reaction between oils and lye to create soap) but hot process still needs a full 4-6 weeks to become good soap - partially for water evaporation, partially for the entire microscopic structure of the soap to change.

Check out DeAnna's blog for more info: https://classicbells.com/soap/cure.html


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## jcandleattic (Oct 25, 2017)

anniet8777 said:


> I did one cold process recipe 3 weeks ago which was my first batch but I’m too horribly impatient to wait the 4 to 6 weeks to try. So I switched to hot process and love it!



As toxikon said, curing time for HP is the same (if not longer depending on water amount) as CP. 

All HP does is speed up saponification. Saponification and cure are 2 completely different things. 

All soap, once saponification is complete (no active lye remaining in the bar), is perfectly safe to use. However, the difference between a cured and uncured bar in the way it feels on your skin is an amazing difference.


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## Susie (Oct 25, 2017)

As noted above, you are rushing your soaps.  You need to wait the full 4-6 weeks MINIMUM for them to cure before judging them.  That does not mean you can't be making other soaps, but don't think these batches are bad just because they are young.


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## anniet8777 (Oct 25, 2017)

Thankyou all so much for your wisdom! I have all my soaps lined up on my craft table waiting to be cured. I do enjoy using the small ends I cut off to try in advance but it’s good to know they will improve after curing. I’m making the lard recipe now that was recommended by one of you. I’m excited to be able to test all these different recipes and hopefully be able to settle on one that meets my needs. I’m not making soap to sell but only for me and my family and my goal is to formulate a recipe that is luxurious, creamy and moisturizing along with being nice and firm.


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## toxikon (Oct 25, 2017)

Great attitude, can't wait to hear about your soaps when they're all cured up! Make sure to post some pics too.


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## Susie (Oct 25, 2017)

anniet8777 said:


> Thankyou all so much for your wisdom! I have all my soaps lined up on my craft table waiting to be cured. I do enjoy using the small ends I cut off to try in advance but it’s good to know they will improve after curing. I’m making the lard recipe now that was recommended by one of you. I’m excited to be able to test all these different recipes and hopefully be able to settle on one that meets my needs. I’m not making soap to sell but only for me and my family and my goal is to formulate a recipe that is luxurious, creamy and moisturizing along with being nice and firm.



Try this:

Lard 65%
Coconut Oil 15%
Olive Oil 15%
Castor Oil 5%

Superfat 5%


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## anniet8777 (Oct 25, 2017)

Susie said:


> Try this:
> 
> Lard 65%
> Coconut Oil 15%
> ...


I will try that next!! I work the next 6 days 12 hour shifts but look forward to trying my next batch next week!
Today’s recipe is babassu 10%, coconut 5%, lard 40%, shea 5%, cocoa 5%, olive 20%, avocado oil 10%, castor oil 5% with goats milk as the liquid. 
I went out and bought a cheap 4qt crockpot from Walmart today that works much better!
After I do my 6th batch next week, I’ll line them all up and take a pic to post, however I have no idea how to post pics on here. 
And mine aren’t fancy, just rustic looking. I’m more about the quality of a product and not so much in to how something looks.


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## Kizzy (Nov 7, 2017)

lionprincess00 said:


> Technically you cannot make soap more moisturizing, you can just make it less stripping. You have 22% of stripping oils in there. It might just be too high for you. I would reduce it down to 18%. A higher super fat doesn't necessarily make it better 4 dry skin. I actually make mine with 2% super fat and less coconut oil so that I get more soap out of it so to speak, but it is not a stripping. Some people are sensitive to coconut oil so you might just try 18 or 17% babasau oil instead as a little experiment. On a side note if you're not using citric acid, sodium citrate, or EDTA you might be having some soap scum if your water is hard. Soap scum left on the skin can make you itch and feel dried out and kind of flaky as well. I use sodium citrate and it helped that issue also.



I would like to try sodium citrate.  Can you recommend a percentage?
Thanks


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## lionprincess00 (Nov 7, 2017)

Kizzy said:


> I would like to try sodium citrate.  Can you recommend a percentage?
> Thanks



Sure! I use 2% ppo. So for my 1 lb mold (which does hold more than 1 lb, and I like a little extra to pour into a round individual mold for testing), I use 18 oz of oils. So 2% of that, I use .36 oz of sodium citrate dissolved in my water before adding lye to it.


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