# New to Liquid soap and have some ?'s



## AF_SOAP (May 3, 2014)

So i saw soaping 101s video on liquid Castile soap and figured I take one of my HP soap recipes and try and alter it to make liquid Castile.  

Basically it would be olive, castor and coconut.  My main concern is when I use soap calc and cook it.  Is the result of the numbers of soap calc the paste?...and then I dilute it at a 2:1 water to paste ratio?  Or is the numbers that pop out on soap calc the total amount (ounces pounds etc) with the dilute paste weight figured in?

So let's say I use %100 olive oil(which I would not) and make 3 pounds.  It gives me the water weight which I would use glycerin in place of because I have a gallon of it, then cook to trace, cook, test for clarity and then dilute.  

My question is though, is 48 ounces the total weight at the end or would it be 96 + original 48?  So alllllot of liquid soap?

The last question I had is how and when do people add fragrance?  I use EOs only and was wondering about staying power.

I had made lots of CP and HP so I don't think it will be too hard to make.  I have even made my own potash but want to use a lab grade product (essential depot) first before I try my own.


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## FGOriold (May 3, 2014)

Each formulation will require a different amount of dilution water so there is no real direct answer.  I don't use soapcalc so I don't know what numbers you are referring to.  When I dilute soap I always start at a 1:1 ratio (less water if 100% coconut oil) and slowly add more water as needed to fully dilute the paste.  It takes time and patience.

When adding EO's it is always best to test them on a small amount of diluted soap first before using them in an entire batch.  Not all EOs (or FOs) play nice with liquid soap.  I heat up the soap first, then add the EO to warm diluted soap.  

And on a side note, Olive + Castor + Coconut does not make Castile soap.  Castile is 100% olive.


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## AF_SOAP (May 3, 2014)

Well it is going to be a bastile recipe really because it will contain 80%+ of olive oil.  The coconut and castor are for cleansing power and bubbles.  So since it is high olive oil would you recommend a 2:1 or still start out at 1:1 and go from there?

When you say test the EOs first, not a bad idea.  Do you mean in a small test batch or take a small sample from a bigger batch and test that before adding it to the entire batch?


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## FGOriold (May 3, 2014)

I test fragrance and EO in about 3 - 4 ounces of diluted soap and let them sit for a few days.  Some will immediately cloud the soap but it will clear as it sits.  Some thicken it, some thin it, some cause separation.

I always start at 1:1 ratio but that is just my preference.  High olive oil content soaps usually take more water to fully dilute than those higher in coconut oil so you can start with more if you want.  But I would still recommend to go slow and allow the paste time to dilute.


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## AF_SOAP (May 3, 2014)

If say it does separate would you use a borax water solution to emulsify? Or maybe polysorbate?

The soaping101 didn't use a neutralize solution at all so I'm wondering if it is more of a personal preference to bring it down to pH 7-8.


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## FGOriold (May 3, 2014)

You cannot bring the ph down that low.  Your soap will separate back into oil and alkali.  Soap is an alkaline product, if you take the ph too low, you no longer have soap.

I don't use borax at all.  I superfat my soaps a small amount (1-3%) to keep them clear and they never need neutralization.    Borax will not take your ph down that low but it will mess up your soap if you use too much.  Most current formulations do not require neutralization (in liquid soap this refers to neutralizing any excess lye - not bringing down the ph) as most people do not formulate with a lye excess anymore.  The old method was to use a lye excess to insure that all oils were saponified then neutralize the excess KOH.


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## seven (May 4, 2014)

i agree with the above, starts with 1:1 first. homemade ls is thinner than commercial ones, i was even surprised when i first made it. if this happens to you and you want to thicken it, you can use xanthan gum (mix with glycerine first). some ppl use plain table salt, but that aint my preference.

i also dont use borax, and i dont neutralize. i superfat at 0-1% to keep the soap as clear as possible.


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## DeeAnna (May 4, 2014)

...when I use soap calc and cook it. Is the result of the numbers of soap calc the paste?...

Yes.

...and then I dilute it at a 2:1 water to paste ratio? 

Yes.

Or is the numbers that pop out on soap calc the total amount (ounces pounds etc) with the dilute paste weight figured in?

Nope. 

My question is though, is 48 ounces the total weight at the end or would it be 96 + original 48? So alllllot of liquid soap?

You nailed it! 

...The last question I had is how and when do people add fragrance?

Not an experienced LS maker -- only one batch under my belt. I have been adding EO/FO after dilution. That gives you more flexibility because you can fragrance the actual finished product however you want. Otherwise, you're committing the whole (huge-moungous) batch to one fragrance.


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## AF_SOAP (May 4, 2014)

All very good tips.  Thanks for all the help.  Just have to wait for the KOH to arrive and I can start.  

Does anyone know why on the back of commercial body wash sometimes they have sodium hydroxide as an ingredient?  Is it to thicken the resulting liquid?


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## Susie (May 5, 2014)

I start with a 1:1 ratio of paste to water, then go up from there.  I do record on each batch page how much water that batch required, so if I make it again, then I just type that amount into the notes before printing it.  I do NOT add that full amount to the next batch, but I add 3/4 of it, and can just walk away from the crock pot for quite a while before adding bit-by-bit the rest of the water.  I have yet to need the exact amount that I used before, but the 3/4 rule works well.

I add my EO when my diluted soap is still warm(when I put a bit on my inner wrist, it will feel _warm_, not hot).  That is when I bottle it anyway, so I pour then add the EO for that batch.  

NaOH does not noticeably thicken the soap.  It does, however, help get it to trace faster.(KOH is notoriously slow to trace)  I, personally, think it makes a better laundry and dish soap.  It just seems to degrease better.  I have no scientific backing whatsoever, so I may just be deluding myself, but a 25% NaOH, 75% KOH is what I use.

And about the glycerin...some of us use 50% water, 50% glycerin instead.  Use the water to dissolve the KOH, then add cold glycerin to the water/KOH mixture.  It helps you skip the step of heating the glycerin.  And I am all for making things more simple.


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## DeeAnna (May 5, 2014)

"...Does anyone know why on the back of commercial body wash sometimes they have sodium hydroxide as an ingredient? Is it to thicken the resulting liquid? ..."

I can't speak with any authority on this, but I will offer the idea that a synthetic detergent mix might have a lower pH than the manufacturer would prefer. If so, sodium hydroxide would be a good chemical to adjust the pH higher.


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## Susie (May 5, 2014)

AF_SOAP said:


> All very good tips.  Thanks for all the help.  Just have to wait for the KOH to arrive and I can start.
> 
> Does anyone know why on the back of commercial body wash sometimes they have sodium hydroxide as an ingredient?  Is it to thicken the resulting liquid?



Sorry, I started reading this forum when I was really tired, so I am not being very organized.  

I am not sure, but I would speculate that commercial body wash is a cream soap type preparation with synthetic detergents(syndets), thickeners, and other "stuff" added.  Those require a NaOH/KOH combo if you are making them yourself. I have never made cream soaps, so I can't explain any further.

*EDIT* Or what DeeAnna said.


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## DeeAnna (May 5, 2014)

Or what Susie said!


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## AustinStraight (May 5, 2014)

I have nooo idea why they have lye in them but I looked on a bottle of conditioner out of curiosity (even though I don't use it) and it had lye in it... what would it be doing in a conditioner? 

Edit: Oh.  It appears the answer is... above me...


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## AF_SOAP (May 5, 2014)

Does anyone know if the microbeads in liquid soaps are specific or just those really tiny beads you see at craft stores?

I know they are bad for the environment but I was just curious.


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## shunt2011 (May 6, 2014)

The beads are probably jojoba beads. That's my guess anywho.  But then again they could be something totally different.


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