# Transparent Soap Adventures



## Richard Perrine (Aug 24, 2018)

*NO Stearic Acid. NO Ethanol (alcohol). NO Sodium Lactate. VEGAN/ORGANIC Transparent Soap Test!*

Okay. I feel, after a few days of tweaking and researching, that I have a transparent soap that is alcohol, stearic-acid, SL, etc. FREE!  I have posted pics of my most recent failures (translucent, but not transparent) that I really like and will now use to create gradients of translucency (more tests to come) flanking the successful transparent soap. 


The orange coloration of the transparent soap is from the orange essential oil. The far left is natural and the right contains too much of a green mica pigment. It looks lovely in person though. The bars on either side of the transparent bars are translucent. Difficult to see in this pic. As you can see with the side-by-side, the transparency is pretty good. The bar on the left is alcohol-based (made about 3-weeks ago) and the three on the right is as advertised (made last night).  The coloration is due to essential oils only. I am happy with what I discovered and again, thanks to the soap-making community who have already done so much of the work and is gracious enough to share. Love the glycerin feel.


I have some time, so I will make some observations regarding my experience making the soap w/o alcohol, etc. I will put up my recipe later today...

1. Unmolding the soap, there was considerable glycerine goop on and below the solidified soap bars. I simply wiped it off and all good. I hadn't experienced this before and I did use the same amount of glycerine as I had in the past. I am assuming it is glycerine as it felt, looked and smelled (no odor) like it. There was no negative affect to the soap overall. 

2. Glycerine to total oils was @ 50%. I do not get any sweating, but maybe it's b/c I live in dry Utah(?). 

3. I suck at adding coloring, so will, personally, refrain from doing so. I actually like the natural coloring that takes place with the essential oils. 

4. The fragrance from the essential oils are wonderful especially while lathering.

5. Not great lather, but lather never the less... it just takes a little time. 

*Transparent Soap Recipe*

Castor Oil – 250 grams (50%)
Coconut Oil – 250 grams (50%)

Lye – 78 grams (0% superfat to reduce cloudiness)
Distilled Water – 156 grams (double lye amount)

Solvents (equal to 100% of oils)

Glycerin – 250 grams (50% of oils)
Sugar – 250 grams (50%)
Water – 160 grams (to create sugar solution)

I made this recipe using a crockpot. After the soap mixture goes through its phases and is in apple-sauce stage, I then add the solvents. I prep the sugar water before pour by adding the sugar into the water to make a syrup. I pour in the glycerine into the sugar syrup, stir, and then pour into the soup mixture. 

Mix thoroughly. I put the heat on high on my crockpot and closed the lid tightly. I waited about 1-1.5 hours, stirring only 2-3x in between to get any insolubles mixed in and dissolved. A thin film may remain after this time. I pour my transparent soap through a sieve to block any insolubles. 

This process works really well for me. I turn off the crockpot and allow to sit for 15-20 minutes before adding my essential oils. Keep the lid on while cooling.

Recent batch of transparent soap. Very happy except for the many air bubbles. I poured the soup through a sieve and likely resulted in the many air bubbles(?). Not too bad. Smells great and feels great. I left it cooking for an additional 30 minutes so that I had fewer insoluble soap floating.





Put light under to show transparency better. Late night and didn’t have better light to really show the transparency in a more natural light. The orange color is from the essential oils. Will probably take a pic outside tomorrow.


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## szaza (Sep 2, 2018)

Thanks for the update Richard! Great experiment and such a detailed explanation! Thanks a bunch  (I'm sorry to reply so late..)
One day, oh one day I will also muster the courage to experiment with transparent soap. 
I was also thinking about experimenting with palm/lard/tallow free (all my soaps are, so why make an exception here?) I've read somewhere that someone had some good results with refined shea, so that's one of the things I'm planning to try if I ever do muster up the courage. I've also read that some people use soy wax to replace stearic acid in shaving soaps, but I've never heard of anyone using it in transparent soap. Might be worth a try as well? (one day..)
Keep us updated on how the soaps behave when you start using them! I'm curious if the lack of alcohol makes them less drying.. I'm not sure what your motivation is for leaving ethanol out, but how about propylene glycol? It's supposed to be less drying (though more cloudy/sweaty) and should make your soap remeltable.. just a thought! 
In the meantime, happy soaping!


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## Richard Perrine (Sep 2, 2018)

Szaza. Happy to be helpful. I completely failed to mention that my initial tests were with soy wax! Sorry! The translucent bars were with soy wax! I abandoned it b/c at the time I couldn’t get transparency. But, I was curious, so the latest transparent bars are with 5 and 10% soy wax to total oils and as you can see, transparent. I have determined that I can use the soy wax to control translucency. Also, with this process, I find stearin acid unnecessary. For hardening? The bars come out HARD. I don’t use any Stearic acid, sodium lactate in any of my bars. I love soy wax...so versatile and cheap.


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## szaza (Sep 2, 2018)

That's great to hear that you had good results with soy wax! Your last bars look absolutely lovely


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## Richard Perrine (Sep 2, 2018)

Szaza. Thank you. I feel pretty good about my transparent method and it has not failed me. I stopped using the alcohol b/c of the drying concern and I have friends who prefer a completely natural soap and adding ethanol to the process doesn’t invoke ‘natural.’ I am also considering cost.


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## Richard Perrine (Sep 3, 2018)

M&P without propylene glycol!

Just an update regarding M&P. I took one of my translucent bars which contained some soy wax and melted it down and remolded it. Success! I feel that the transparent bars would probably melt smoother, better as they do not contain as much soywax or none at all. Regardless, the melting of this bar was nearly effortless. I have never worked with commercial M&P, but you have to work a little quicker with this soap. The soy wax content helps it harden quicker. Also, I imagine that the propylene glycol in commercial soap bases help it to remain smooth and viscous longer. I'll do some tests later. 

I made the mistake of keeping it in the microwave a little too long and it boiled up a little and added air. I should have melted with 10-15 sec bursts in the microwave. Melted quickly. I also added about a tablespoon of distilled water to the cut-up pieces. I saw no evidence of air within the bar, but the poured surface had plenty. 




I took some of the 'foam' that is created during the making of the transparent soap and formed it into an oval mold. I recently melted that bar down to create a rectangle form. Again, showing that the transparent recipe is also 'melt & pourable!' The remolded soap looks better, added apple fragrance and smells great! The soap created by the foam is softer, so not anticipating that the bar will harden much more, if at all over time. The glycerine will likely keep it malleable, but workable. This 'foam' is from my earlier transparent soap tests, so contains a good deal of soy wax.


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## Miki (Sep 4, 2018)

Thanks so much for sharing, Richard,  your soaps have turned out really well! I have been looking for a good natural recipe without alcohol, still too much of a learning curve to do any experiments. In saying that every batch I make is a experiment but transparent soap seemed too much of a holy grail for now. Would this work with a combination of olive oil and coconut oil? Is it unusual to add some SF to the initial batch of soap?


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## Richard Perrine (Sep 4, 2018)

Miki said:


> Thanks so much for sharing, Richard,  your soaps have turned out really well! I have been looking for a good natural recipe without alcohol, still too much of a learning curve to do any experiments. In saying that every batch I make is a experiment but transparent soap seemed too much of a holy grail for now. Would this work with a combination of olive oil and coconut oil? Is it unusual to add some SF to the initial batch of soap?



Thank you, Miki. It has been fun and I continue to learn from the process. I was like you, a little hesitant, so I started small. I made 1-2 bar batches to start. Just go for it!  I don't doubt that it would work with olive and coconut oils, but most of your oils should be hard oils as I understand it. Still learning. I also believe superfatting contributes to clouding of the bars. I refrain from that. The glycerine really nourishes w/o superfatting. Hope that helps.


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## Miki (Sep 4, 2018)

Aha moment, once again, many thanks! Somehow I must have thought castor oil is a soft oil... back to the drawing board or get me a big bottle of castor oil.... which means a trip to town, sigh, but I will let you know how I go


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## Richard Perrine (Sep 4, 2018)

Miki said:


> Aha moment, once again, many thanks! Somehow I must have thought castor oil is a soft oil... back to the drawing board or get me a big bottle of castor oil.... which means a trip to town, sigh, but I will let you know how I go



Mimi,

It is. It is used mostly for its bubbling effects. Notice I put as much coconut and soy wax, both hard oils and the process is essential hot process.


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## earlene (Sep 4, 2018)

Miki said:


> Aha moment, once again, many thanks! Somehow I must have thought castor oil is a soft oil... back to the drawing board or get me a big bottle of castor oil.... which means a trip to town, sigh, but I will let you know how I go


Castor oil is a soft oil. It's the stearin in the Soy Wax that is giving Richard a hard bar of soap, not the castor.  Soy Wax is 87% stearin and 11% myrsitic.  Hardness values are calculated by adding the values for Lauric + Myristic + Palmitic + Stearic acids. 

Castor is 90% Ricinoleic acid, which contributes to conditioning, creaminess and bubbliness, but _not_ hardness.  Castor is a thick oil, but it is not hard.  Only one place I have found lists it as a hard oil and I suspect that was a type.

ETA:  The CO contributes to hardness, as well, of course, which I left out in my above comments.


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## Richard Perrine (Sep 4, 2018)

earlene said:


> Castor oil is a soft oil. It's the stearin in the Soy Wax that is giving Richard a hard bar of soap, not the castor.  Soy Wax is 87% stearin and 11% myrsitic.  Hardness values are calculated by adding the values for Lauric + Myristic + Palmitic + Stearic acids.
> 
> Castor is 90% Ricinoleic acid, which contributes to conditioning, creaminess and bubbliness, but _not_ hardness.  Castor is a thick oil, but it is not hard.  Only one place I have found lists it as a hard oil and I suspect that was a type.
> 
> ETA:  The CO contributes to hardness, as well, of course, which I left out in my above comments.



I just want to clarify that the recipe above DOES NOT use soy wax and it produces very hard soap bars. The hot process and coconut oil are enough to create hard bars. I only use the soy wax for effect (translucency) only.


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## Miki (Sep 4, 2018)

Its too early in the morning  to grasp this info... coffee time


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## Richard Perrine (Sep 4, 2018)

My apologies, Miki. Darn auto-correct on my phone changed your name to Mimi. Ha ha. It really is fun working with transparent soap.  Not nearly as scary after you get rid of the alcohol from the equation. I will say that the alcohol as a solvent is very effective and seems to give better transparency. But no need to use such a volatile chemical to get something nice.


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## Miki (Sep 4, 2018)

I got over using lye, I'll do the same here I'm sure!


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## Richard Perrine (Sep 4, 2018)

Miki said:


> I got over using lye, I'll do the same here I'm sure!



I’m relatively new to soap making. Soap WITHOUT lye?


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## earlene (Sep 4, 2018)

Ah, my mistake, Richard about the soap without Soy Wax.  I thought you used soy wax because of this post:  



Richard Perrine said:


> Szaza. Happy to be helpful. I completely failed to mention that my initial tests were with soy wax! Sorry! The translucent bars were with soy wax! I abandoned it b/c at the time I couldn’t get transparency. But, I was curious, so the latest transparent bars are with 5 and 10% soy wax to total oils and as you can see, transparent. I have determined that I can use the soy wax to control translucency. Also, with this process, I find stearin acid unnecessary. For hardening? The bars come out HARD. I don’t use any Stearic acid, sodium lactate in any of my bars. I love soy wax...so versatile and cheap.



I am intrigued by your soy wax transparent soap, though.    Was it also the soap that you found to be effectively good for M&P?  Or am I getting that mixed up too?

My only one attempt at creating transparent soap (not MP) was not very successful.  But I'd like to do it again for transparent soap and it sure would be pretty nice to be able to make my own MP without having to buy a bunch of additives I don't normally use.  But now I'm not sure if you used soy wax with or without alcohol in the recipe.  I'd love to learn more about that soap specifically because I really do like using soy wax as well.


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## Richard Perrine (Sep 4, 2018)

Earlene,

My first couple of transparency soap tests involved soy wax. I abandoned it b/c I couldn't get transparency at the concentration that I was using it. I went to 50/50 coconut/castor oil. It worked much better (the recipe is w/o soy and works beautifully for me), but I was also intrigued by the translucent effects created by the soy wax from the initial soaps. The first pic shows the two translucent bars (left and right) flanking the transparent bar made w/o soy wax. I really loved that green bar. Anyway, the second picture shows the transparent bar w/o soy wax compared with a transparent bar made with alcohol (on left). Much clearer. It is a little tackier than the transparent soaps created by alcohol, but still very hard. The third picture contains bars with some soy wax at 5 and 10%. Still transparent. 

Yes, the M&P bars also contained the soy. My post describing the M&P process above involved a bar with high concentrations of soy wax as I was deliberately trying to make a translucent bar this time.


The bar above is from the same batch that the M&P demo bar is from. It cuts like hard cheese, smooth and clean and remelts nicely.

Here is my recent M&P of the transparent soap that contains NO SOY WAX!



I cut up a small bar of transparent soap that did not contain any soy wax. Put it in a glass measuring cup, 1 tsp of distilled water and heated it in the microwave. Far right pic at top is after 10 seconds. Lower left is completely melted after 20 seconds. I poured into spherical balls mold I am testing out for the first time. You can see how transparent the soap is. The bar w/o soy wax melts much quicker and smoother.



After 10 minutes in the freezer, I popped out the cute, citrus scented, transparent soap balls.


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## Miki (Sep 4, 2018)

Hehe, sorry, my quote button won't quote your exclamation about no lye.... no lye = no soap... it just took me ages before making my first batch of soap because I had heard horrific stories and warnings about lye... now I use it I try to be as careful as possible.

No pictures yet but I have just done my first experiment to make transparent soap....  tiny amount, 100 grams of rebatched soap, 100 grams water and 100 grams glycerine in the microwave, got a lot of froth possibly through stirring with a chop stick so I sieved it into some small  silicon molds and its in the fridge. Photo to follow of the finished product (its pretty dark day, finally getting some good rain)



Miki said:


> I got over using lye, I'll do the same here I'm sure!



Ahh, did it... requote "I got over the fear of using lye" ... much better




 I've waited over 48 hours before unmolding my experiment... it was still rather snotty looking so onto a plate rather than a drying rack,  plse note that this is my first experiment! There will be more.


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## Richard Perrine (Sep 7, 2018)

Miki,

Great first test!  Not entirely clear (no pun intended), did they finish transparent or translucent?


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## Miki (Sep 7, 2018)

Richard Perrine said:


> Miki,
> 
> Great first test!  Not entirely clear (no pun intended), did they finish transparent or translucent?



Thank you, no, not entirely clear (  ) ! They are translucent and now spreading out on the plate... thinking of rebatching and adding some sugar to harden them up a little. Its fun!


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## Richard Perrine (Sep 7, 2018)

More sugar or salt? It may be that there is too much glycerin? Sugar solution? In my experience and understanding, adding sugar adds to the transparency and lather, but hadn't heard that it affects hardness. Good luck! It's good to hear that you're having fun! That alone will take you further as it did me. I was enjoying the process!


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## Miki (Sep 11, 2018)

That should have been salt! After a stressful weekend at work my aim on Monday was to melt down the soaps, dissolve some salt in it then back in the mold. Its turned out much better, still translucent but thats from the soap I rebatched for this experiment.
That was yesterday and this morning I was able to take them out of the mold and put them on a rach to dry out a bit more. 
I will definitely be making more soon


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## cmzaha (Oct 2, 2018)

Using high glycerin as the solvent will result in a soap that will melt into a puddle in a fairly short time span. Been there tried it, after reading experiments from Kevin Dunn.


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## Richard Perrine (Oct 2, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> Using high glycerin as the solvent will result in a soap that will melt into a puddle in a fairly short time span. Been there tried it, after reading experiments from Kevin Dunn.



I agree. When I give my soaps away or at home, I encourage the use of an effective soap dish to guide excess water from the bars. It makes a huge difference. I also make varying degrees of transparent/translucent soaps using less glycerin and more soy wax (or other oils). They last longer, of course. My final formulation was based on my interest in transparency alone and not necessarily thinking about whether they will melt w/o draining. Again, a soap dish does wonders.


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## KimT2au (Oct 3, 2018)

Richard Perrine said:


> *Transparent Soap Recipe*
> 
> Castor Oil – 250 grams (50%)
> Coconut Oil – 250 grams (50%)
> ...



Hi @Richard Perrine , I got a bit confused following this conversation (that's not hard I am sorry to say). Are you saying that the above recipe now gives you a transparent bar or are you still refining?  When you make the sugar syrup, do you heat the distilled water to help the sugar dissolve or do you use it cold?

I am very excited by your experiments.  I can see you are going to become a huge credit and contributor to this forum.

Thank you so much for all your work.

Kim


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## Richard Perrine (Oct 3, 2018)

KimT2au said:


> Hi @Richard Perrine , I got a bit confused following this conversation (that's not hard I am sorry to say). Are you saying that the above recipe now gives you a transparent bar or are you still refining?  When you make the sugar syrup, do you heat the distilled water to help the sugar dissolve or do you use it cold?
> 
> I am very excited by your experiments.  I can see you are going to become a huge credit and contributor to this forum.
> 
> ...


Kim,

There's still room to modify the recipe and I probably will while I'm still in this adventurous state. One poster reminded me of how fragile soaps with such high glycerine content can be, but my bars have held together pretty well as long as you place them on a soap dish. I will reformulate to so that less glycerine and/or sugar is used. Weekend tests!  I'll continue posting the results here, of course. That being said, that recipe is where I stopped and was convinced that transparent soap can be made w/o the stringent alcohols, stearic acid, etc. and I I use it often. I heat up the water to help dissolve the sugar. It's all going to be poured in and heated further anyway, so no need to monitor temp. Hope that helps. I will be making a new batch of the transparent soap later this week.


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## KimT2au (Oct 3, 2018)

Oh, @Richard Perrine , I am sooooo going to make your soap.  Thank you.


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## Richard Perrine (Oct 3, 2018)

KimT2au said:


> Oh, @Richard Perrine , I am sooooo going to make your soap.  Thank you.


Yay! Let me know if you need help. It really is a low maintenance recipe. Some advice that I have discovered over a few takes:

1. Try to dissolve as much of the hardened soap film into your mixture before pouring. It helps.
2. I use a sieve or strainer when pouring so the no hardened debris makes it through.
3. Pour quickly as the soap sets quickly and could block-up your sieve


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## Richard Perrine (Oct 6, 2018)

Most recent modifications/tests with my transparent soap as inspired by cmzaha...

The following soap is a result of *reducing the glycerine* by 25% and *increasing sugar/water* solution by 25%.

Observations:
1. Less residual glycerine slime on top of my bars. In fact, none as I experienced before. The latter only occurred immediately after pouring into the mold.
2. Solidification of the soap was similar to the original recipe.
3. Transparency is similar to original. The bar you see is w/o fragrances or dyes.



Just wanted to add that those small bubbles are on the top of the bar. I didn't spray with alcohol to remove.


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## Richard Perrine (Oct 6, 2018)

I cut 5mm slices of my transparent soap(s).


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## KimT2au (Oct 6, 2018)

Richard Perrine said:


> Most recent modifications/tests with my transparent soap as inspired by cmzaha...
> 
> The following soap is a result of *reducing the glycerine* by 25% and *increasing sugar/water* solution by 25%.
> 
> ...



Did the glycerin not absorb back into the soap over a day or so?  When I have had glycerin on the top of soap, I just left it and it was gradually reabsorbed.


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## Richard Perrine (Oct 6, 2018)

KimT2au said:


> Did the glycerin not absorb back into the soap over a day or so?  When I have had glycerin on the top of soap, I just left it and it was gradually reabsorbed.



Kim,

I never gave it a chance. I simply wiped it off. No harm done except now I know I've wasted some glycerine.


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## Richard Perrine (Oct 10, 2018)

After a few days of curing, the newly modified transparent soap recipe is a rockin'! With the decrease in glycerine, the soap certainly seems to hold up firmer overall, but especially in the shower when often exposed to water.


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## Richard Perrine (Oct 10, 2018)

Sorry. Not sure how this duplicated.


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## clownking99 (Oct 12, 2018)

Very impressive ! Sounds difficult to make ><


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## Elibedrod (Oct 13, 2018)

Richard Perrine said:


> M&P without propylene glycol!
> 
> Just an update regarding M&P. I took one of my translucent bars which contained some soy wax and melted it down and remolded it. Success! I feel that the transparent bars would probably melt smoother, better as they do not contain as much soywax or none at all. Regardless, the melting of this bar was nearly effortless. I have never worked with commercial M&P, but you have to work a little quicker with this soap. The soy wax content helps it harden quicker. Also, I imagine that the propylene glycol in commercial soap bases help it to remain smooth and viscous longer. I'll do some tests later.
> 
> ...


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## Elibedrod (Oct 13, 2018)

Richard Perrine said:


> M&P without propylene glycol!
> 
> Just an update regarding M&P. I took one of my translucent bars which contained some soy wax and melted it down and remolded it. Success! I feel that the transparent bars would probably melt smoother, better as they do not contain as much soywax or none at all. Regardless, the melting of this bar was nearly effortless. I have never worked with commercial M&P, but you have to work a little quicker with this soap. The soy wax content helps it harden quicker. Also, I imagine that the propylene glycol in commercial soap bases help it to remain smooth and viscous longer. I'll do some tests later.
> 
> ...


Richard  thanks for all of these updates. Your details rock!


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## Richard Perrine (Oct 13, 2018)

clownking99 said:


> Very impressive ! Sounds difficult to make ><


Hi. It's been fun experimenting and I have a few more twists coming.  I don't feel it's difficult, but it really boils down to taking that first step and finding out that making transparent soap really isn't that complicated.


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## Richard Perrine (Oct 13, 2018)

Elibedrod said:


> Richard  thanks for all of these updates. Your details rock!


Thank you. More to come. I just hope more people join in and that my instructions are clear enough.


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## Richard Perrine (Oct 14, 2018)

Update.

I have made some significant changes to my formulation and the initial results have been better than I would have thought.



Clearer soap.  The thickness is a little more than those of post #31 (7-8mm). I have a full bar that I poured and will wait tomorrow to see if the clarity is, in fact, as observed from the small bar above. I will then share the change in formulation.


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## Dawni (Oct 15, 2018)

Richard Perrine said:


> Thank you. More to come. I just hope more people join in and that my instructions are clear enough.



I've been enjoying reading so far but haven't had anything to add (lack of experience) but I will say this:

That last soap pic looks awesome! Transparent soap used to wow me before and after reading about your experiments I will definitely be trying it. Very inspiring.. Good job!

Edited to say yes, your instructions are very clear hehehe


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## KimT2au (Oct 15, 2018)

Oh, WOW, @Richard Perrine , that is an amazingly clear bar.  I can't wait to see how the other bar came out.


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## Richard Perrine (Oct 15, 2018)

Top Left: Original pour into mould. Very transparent. You can see the squares from the rack through the soap and silicon mold. 
Top Right: 7-8mm (thick) bar of the soap poured separately and cooled very fast. (I wonder if rapid cooling has anything to do with clarity?)
Middle Left: Whole bar and end cut off. Whole bar is not transparent due to thickness as is cut end. 
Middle Right: Showing more transparency tests by using a magazine. 
Bottom: Again showing how thinner (13mm thick) end piece is clearer. 

Observations:
1. I did cloud up and I am pointing at the glycerine(?).
2. I allowed the larger bar to cool off in room temperature overnight. I typically do not do this. I normally put my glycerine bars in the freezer to solidify and then unmold. I wonder if rapid cooling has an effect on clarity. Will remake and put in freezer to cool faster.


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## Richard Perrine (Jan 1, 2019)

It's been some time...busy time of the year! Here is my latest transparent soap I made for a friend. Sandalwood scented and the colour from the oil and castor oil(?). There were tiny air bubbles, but nothing unattractive. I believe this occurred b/c I poured too high causing the tiny bubbles(?). 




I will repeat later with only coconut oil to see if I can get a CLEAR and transparent bar.


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## clownking99 (Jan 1, 2019)

Very impressive!


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## Richard Perrine (Apr 13, 2019)

Recent transparent soap. Grapefruit-bergamot menthol soap. 5% menthol crystals put in 20-minutes before pour. Love the sinus clearing and tingling!


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## Marilyn Norgart (Apr 13, 2019)

wow--nice job!!!


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## Richard Perrine (Apr 16, 2019)

Latest transparent recipe. Completely different from what I have posted, but results are pretty decent. Here is my Orange-Citronella Menthol soap for my son. I need to redo w/o adding any essential oils to see what its true colour is. No alcohol was used as part of the solvent(s).


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 16, 2019)




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## Dawni (Apr 17, 2019)

Nice! One of these days I'm gonna sit and read this thread and try my hand at transparent soap. You inspire me


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## Marilyn Norgart (Apr 17, 2019)

Dawni said:


> Nice! One of these days I'm gonna sit and read this thread and try my hand at transparent soap. You inspire me



I was thinking the same thing--that soap is pretty cool


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## earlene (Apr 17, 2019)

Richard, that looks really nice!  I am super impressed with your results.


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## Anush Bruno (Apr 17, 2019)

Hi Richard.  I have been wondering if it is possible to make a transparent M&P without alcohol.  Seems like there is always someone that comes up with the same question and goes even further to experiment it. 
Thanks so much for your contribution to find the answers.  I read as much as I could through these long thread.  I found your original recipe with 50x50 castor/coconut.  But it seems you have made further adjustments to this recipe.  Do you have it somewhere in this thread that I missed? Could you please, direct me to your final recipe. Thank you so much.​


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## Richard Perrine (Apr 17, 2019)

Anush Bruno said:


> Hi Richard.  I have been wondering if it is possible to make a transparent M&P without alcohol.  Seems like there is always someone that comes up with the same question and goes even further to experiment it.
> Thanks so much for your contribution to find the answers.  I read as much as I could through these long thread.  I found your original recipe with 50x50 castor/coconut.  But it seems you have made further adjustments to this recipe.  Do you have it somewhere in this thread that I missed? Could you please, direct me to your final recipe. Thank you so much.​


Hi Anush. I use the original recipe most of the time. On the second page of the thread, I do reduce the glycerin by 25% and increase sugar solution by 25% to reduce sweating. I would try both in smaller amounts and test to see which works better for you. My 'new' recipe is under testing. I made the last two bars using this new, modified recipe. I will post the results soon.


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## Richard Perrine (Apr 19, 2019)

I have been playing around with a coconut oil only transparent soap. I tried a couple tests sometime back and failed to get what I wanted as I was seeking more colorless soap. Coconut only transparent soap is a bit trickier and the smallest variable seems to take it towards opaqueness. I tweaked my original recipe (two on the right) and replaced 20% of the glycerine with sugar solution (two at the left). Almost no sweating occurred with the bars with replacement.

I poured the transparent soap in a slab mold and cooled. The base soap was white and translucent, not transparent. I cut and melted the base soap and added eo to get the results below. Remelting and pouring the base with no eo did not change the state of translucence. The bars seem to become more transparent with the addition of eo and with varying degree depending on the eo. 

Observations from right to left:

Bar one has peppermint eo and the bar turned cloudy. You can see areas of colorless, but mostly cloudy. It seemed like the eo curdled somewhat. Is that a thing?

Bar two is the orange citronella menthol soap made earlier. Orange, but transparent.

Bar three only has fennel eo. Cloudy again, but not like first bar.

Last bar at far left has lemon and tea tree eo. Amber colour, but very transparent.

Is it coincidence or do the colorless and clear eos cause cloudy effect?


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 19, 2019)

Richard Perrine said:


> Is it coincidence or do the colorless and clear eos cause cloudy effect?


All lovely soaps, Richard! Impressivie.
I'm wondering if adding the EO to Polysorbate 20 or 80 would help it disperse throughout the bar better?


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## Richard Perrine (Apr 19, 2019)

Zany_in_CO said:


> All lovely soaps, Richard! Impressivie.
> I'm wondering if adding the EO to Polysorbate 20 or 80 would help it disperse throughout the bar better?



I don't want to add anything artificial and from what I've read, these emulsifiers are yellow in colour, which hinders my efforts to create clear and more colorless bars. Am I wrong in either?


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 20, 2019)

Although commonly referred to as "emulsifiers", Polysorbate 20 and 80 are technically "solubizers", meaning, they dissolve oil in water. The way I work with them, Richard, depending on the product, I first add the Poly to water and mix well, then add the EO and mix until fully incorporated. Use rate: Varies. Typically 1 tablespoon poly to 1 teaspoon EO. Add more poly if necessary. 

So what you end up with is  a water-based essential oil -- which would easily disperse throughout the bar I would expect, rather than clouding up here and there. But that's just me and I don't know enough about your process to really be all that helpful. Just my 2¢ worth.


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## Richard Perrine (Apr 20, 2019)

Interesting. Does the colour  affect your soap at all?


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 21, 2019)

Two things...
1)  The technique described above I use in liquid soap and non-soap products. And yes, the color comes through. For example, I have a blend that contains German Chamomile -- it colors the water pale blue to minty green. The water is not cloudy, but clear. Once added to the product, it's so light it doesn't matter, to me at least. 

2) Unfortunately, all my transparent soaps were colored. If I were trying to make clear, not cloudy, and no trace of amber color, I think I'd go nuts trying to figure that one out!    Because all liquid soaps I've made, for example, have that amber hue to them.

I do admire your persistence in trying to achieve colorless soap. Have you tried, or do you use, stearic acid? That, plus lowering the glycerin and upping the sugar syrup for better clarity might work??? Dunno.


ETA: FYI: Polysorbate is a sugar-based product. Poly-20 with olive oil for non-foaming products; Poly-80 with coconut oil for foaming products. It is sometimes used to make water-based fats, like cocoa butter for example, compatible with liquid soap.


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## Richard Perrine (Apr 21, 2019)

Thank you! I am tried stearin acid some time ago and failed. I will admit I didn't give it a chance, but really wanted to stick with more readily available and traditional materials. I may need to revisit it. [emoji4]


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 21, 2019)

You're welcome! I have some transparent soap recipes that use SA. If you want to have a look, you can contact me off list.


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## szaza (Apr 22, 2019)

Really nice experimentation Richard! I'm curious where your adventures will take you next [emoji6]


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## Richard Perrine (Apr 23, 2019)

Here is my troubled bar...








I think you can see some areas of clarity, but you can also see the blotches within, cloudiness.


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 23, 2019)

Richard Perrine said:


> I think you can see some areas of clarity, but you can also see the blotches within, cloudiness.


Yes, I see the problem, but I don't know how to correct it. Actually, it looks quite nice!

This is an old pic from 2004 or 2005 (?) when I was making transparents. You can see the clarity even though the bars are colored. Solvents used: sugar syrup, glycerin, ethanol.




Wish I could be more help.


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