# Is this a lie or just taking liberties?



## jblaney (Mar 9, 2014)

I found this site called "The Body Deli" and they have a line of soaps I was looking at.  I found them listed on Saffron Rouge which is an organic Beauty site.  Anyway, The a Body Deli does not list fragrance oils for any of their soaps.  They say their coconut scented soap contains "natural food grade extracts and flavorings".  What the heck is this?  For their citron vanilla soap they list three types of citrus EO's and then list "Tahitian bourbon vanilla".  That's it.

There are many more just as confusing.  They use vanilla in several other soap, but never use a FO.  I  thought it would be very hard to get a vanilla fragrance naturally.  When I see this I feel like all of these companies are just flat out lying and taking advantage of the fact that most people don't know.   Or is there something I'm missing?   They look like they are a well established company that has been around for a while with a pretty large selection of products, so is it possible they can afford to fragrance their soap naturally with absolutes?  I really want to know if this can be done.


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## maya (Mar 9, 2014)

They might be using an absolute (which, yes, would be expensive) or an FCC for scent.


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## jblaney (Mar 9, 2014)

Maya - What is an FCC?


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## SparkyM (Mar 9, 2014)

Looking at their formulas they're not lying - outright - but they're somewhat disingenuous. The vanilla you're speaking of is actually a blend of 3 different vanilla EOs - so no, it's not to be confused the FO of the same name.

However, they are using some really nasty preservatives in some of their products like sodium benzoate which you really don't want anywhere near you. Technically it's natural, so they're not lying about that part.

You have to expect this from every company that uses "natural" and/or "organic". Companies have to "massage" the truth. But this is true even of the organic world. You think organic farmers don't use pesticides? They sure do and lots of em! Technically there isn't a whole lot of difference between organic fruits and veg except for the prices charged. The rest is all greenwashing if you start to look at the actual hard science. When it comes to toxins, it's all about dosage. I don't waste my money on "organics" because I've done the research and learned it's all jive.

And given the prices they're charging for their products, yes, the better be using EOs, etc.


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## jblaney (Mar 10, 2014)

Sparky, thanks for your thoughts and insight.   I'm not into the whole organic thing either except For a few fruits and vegetables.   

I guess it's possible they are able to get vanilla fragrance naturally.  I'm too lazy to buy a bar and see for myself.


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## dixiedragon (Mar 10, 2014)

I have wondered the same thing about the Zum Bar soaps sold at Whole Foods. Supposedly they are "all natural". But their almond coffee bar has a very potent almond/coffee scent - how did they get that without an FO? How about "Dragonsblood"?

http://www.indigowild.com/zum-bar-s...-soap/zum-bar-natural-soap-coffee-almond.html


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## Miz Jenny (Mar 10, 2014)

What do you suppose their "goats milk base" is?


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## cmzaha (Mar 10, 2014)

SparkyM said:


> Looking at their formulas they're not lying - outright - but they're somewhat disingenuous. The vanilla you're speaking of is actually a blend of 3 different vanilla EOs - so no, it's not to be confused the FO of the same name.
> 
> However, they are using some really nasty preservatives in some of their products like sodium benzoate which you really don't want anywhere near you. Technically it's natural, so they're not lying about that part.
> 
> ...


You are right on with the "organic" They have to use pesticides or they would have no crops. The largestest factor of "Organic" is the fee per acre they pay to be certifed. I have a farmer friend that has a portion of his large farm as organic. He paid $7000 per acre for certification, and uses the same pesticides just in different amounts. The plots that are now "organic" certified were planted the same and treated the same as his other plots. This whole "organic" gets to be a joke


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## judymoody (Mar 10, 2014)

Many retailers use the term EO incorrectly.  They might not be deliberately trying to deceive, just being careless.  Either way, the end result is deceptive.


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## SparkyM (Mar 10, 2014)

You can be hardcore vegan natural organic, but that isn't sustainable for most people. Not by **** sight! And you can't use fruit in soap/body products without preservatives, regardless of how "natural" they are. Hell, fruit produce arsenic, are you going to stop eating fruit? The real problem is people get too hooked up on pseudo-science. Take SLS as an example. Now everyone wants SLS free this and that. The actual science? It's not that bad, and not even remotely a danger in the amounts it's used in soap, but soon as people get it into their head it's evil, it has to go.

As a business however you do have to balance off things like "natural" and "organic" as a price point versus the cost of doing business and making a living. I could make soaps that way - at the cost of $30 a bar - but who's going to buy it? Niche market? Well that doesn't pay the bills does it?  And I don't have the luxury to afford that sort of experimentation.  Yes, entirely natural and real organic is groovy and all but what good is it if most people can't afford it? Simply do the best you can with what you have.


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## Dennis (Mar 10, 2014)

jblaney said:


> I found this site called "The Body Deli" and they have a line of soaps I was looking at.  I found them listed on Saffron Rouge which is an organic Beauty site.  Anyway, The a Body Deli does not list fragrance oils for any of their soaps.  They say their coconut scented soap contains "natural food grade extracts and flavorings".  What the heck is this?  For their citron vanilla soap they list three types of citrus EO's and then list "Tahitian bourbon vanilla".  That's it.
> 
> There are many more just as confusing.  They use vanilla in several other soap, but never use a FO.  I  thought it would be very hard to get a vanilla fragrance naturally.  When I see this I feel like all of these companies are just flat out lying and taking advantage of the fact that most people don't know.   Or is there something I'm missing?   They look like they are a well established company that has been around for a while with a pretty large selection of products, so is it possible they can afford to fragrance their soap naturally with absolutes?  I really want to know if this can be done.



Just a suggestion, why not contact them with these questions?  Perhaps you will receive some good information.  But it would seem that would be the place to start.  If you do contact them please share their response.  It may prove interesting and informative to all here.


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## Alaska beauty (Mar 11, 2014)

Really Organic farms do not use pesticides. They use minerals and natural ingredients to treat them crop. Maybe in your state it's different, but in AK you can run produce true test and see difference. Natural fragrance oils , fragrance extract and fragrance infusions are real and many of them you can do by yourself.  A lot of European companies produce natural fragrances, some American to (google -natural organic flavor oil) . You can find natural and organic flavor oils online very easy. Flavors has a smell to. Some fragrance components from plants can not be extracted by steam or water distillation and cold press, but they can be extracted with carrier oils, alcohol or another solvent. When you adding lavender flowers to oil oil start smelling like lavender. This infusion process produce oily lavender extract. Vanilla infusion in oil or beeswax smells wonderful and lotion or soap. Some natural fragrances made by braking cheaper essential oils on parts and combining them together. I have wonderful French lilic made of coriander, basil and other EOs. Biter Almond made from EO you can by at whsp , infuse vanilla beans in jojoba oil yourself and add them to your soap or lotion.


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## new12soap (Mar 11, 2014)

Alaska beauty said:


> Really Organic farms do not use pesticides.


 
Yes, they really do.

And sometimes those "natural organic" pesticides are far more dangerous.

http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/columns/column-judging-organics-using-real-science/2163254


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## SparkyM (Mar 11, 2014)

Alaska beauty said:


> Really Organic farms do not use pesticides. They use minerals and natural ingredients to treat them crop. Maybe in your state it's different, but in AK you can run produce true test and see difference. Natural fragrance oils , fragrance extract and fragrance infusions are real and many of them you can do by yourself.  A lot of European companies produce natural fragrances, some American to (google -natural organic flavor oil) . You can find natural and organic flavor oils online very easy. Flavors has a smell to. Some fragrance components from plants can not be extracted by steam or water distillation and cold press, but they can be extracted with carrier oils, alcohol or another solvent. When you adding lavender flowers to oil oil start smelling like lavender. This infusion process produce oily lavender extract. Vanilla infusion in oil or beeswax smells wonderful and lotion or soap. Some natural fragrances made by braking cheaper essential oils on parts and combining them together. I have wonderful French lilic made of coriander, basil and other EOs. Biter Almond made from EO you can by at whsp , infuse vanilla beans in jojoba oil yourself and add them to your soap or lotion.




The hard science says they do.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com...101-organic-farming-conventional-agriculture/

http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl...r_kids_you_don_t_need_to_fear_pesticides.html


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## Lindy (Mar 12, 2014)

SparkyM  until you actually know an organic farmer then you really don't know what you are talking about.  I live in an area where there are a lot of certified organic farmers and they don't use chemicals.  I will not get into a discussion or argument but felt it necessary to correct you on this one, small item.  There will always be the ones who cheat the system but use a  wide brush to paint them all as crooks and liars.


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## lsg (Mar 12, 2014)

I think it is time for closure.


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