# Oils and Fragrance



## Mlroun (Jun 26, 2019)

I’ve been making soap for about 3 months now. I only use Essential Oils to scent. Some of my soaps are losing the scent within weeks. 
I have made two batches with the same Lavender EO, in both I used 1 Tab. per lb.
The first was my screw up soap that I had to re batch. It was made on 5/10 and has a nice Lavender smell.
The newest one was made 6/8 and already has less of a scent then the 5/10 batch. The recipes are different and the second one has Palm Oil.
Does the type of oil effect fragrance or do I need to increase my amount of EO’s?


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## jcandleattic (Jun 26, 2019)

Mlroun said:


> Does the type of oil effect fragrance or do I need to increase my amount of EO’s?


Most EO's will fade in soap. Just the nature of it. Make sure if you are going to increase you stay within the safe limits as outlined by the IFRA. 
The type of oil used in the soap recipe won't matter, but the quality of EO's will. Even though, higher quality EO's are still prone to fade.


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## KiwiMoose (Jun 26, 2019)

I wanted to 'only' use EOs too, until I discovered how quickly they fade, and how expensive they are to use in the quantities required for soap.  So now I combine EOs with FOs - so that I still have some 'natural' in there, but I get the longevity of fragrance from the FO.
Also look into combining scents - some need to have an 'anchor' to help with longevity.  You may not smell the anchor, but it helps the main scent to retain its smell.  Google 'anchoring' with 'fragrance'.
Some people use rice flour etc to help anchor scents with some success.


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## lsg (Jun 27, 2019)

You can prolong the life of the fragrance by anchoring it.  " Some of the best anchor scents include patchouli, ylang ylang, litsea cubeba, vetiver, clove, rosewood, neroli, balsam peru and sandalwood essential oils."

https://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.c...-Secrets-Anchoring-Fragrances-In-CP-Soap.aspx


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## szaza (Jun 27, 2019)

Is there a difference in the amount of eo you used in both batches (in % of oils)? Because that could definitely explain why one faded faster than the other. Here's a really good calculator you can use to figure out how much eo you can use while still being safe: https://www.eocalc.com/

You also say that one of the soaps was rebatch. Did you add the eo before or after rebatching? Adding EO's after saponification helps them stick, like when you do HP or rebatch.

About a year ago I made 2 soaps with the same eo blend and a completely different recipe. I noticed that there was a difference in scent retention which led me to do an experiment to see if it was the beeswax that helped the scent sticking (it didn't) I think it could be possible soaping oils have an influence on eo fading, but I'm not sure if it does or how. I'm also not really sure if anchoring scents really works.. clay did not work for me, it actually seemed to absorb the scent and made it go away faster, while whenever I anchor with a different eo, I only seem to smell that other eo after a while.

Up until now I think the best way to make sure an eo sticks is by choosing EO's that are known to stick, like the ones lsg mentioned, adding them after cook in HP or rebatch and packaging your soap as soon as it's cured so it doesn't get exposed to air too much.


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## Mlroun (Jun 27, 2019)

Thank you for all the great suggestions! My very first soap still smells wonderful, I used my Young Living oils. They are way to expensive for soap and as I try other brands they seem quite weak in comparison.  
I have saved all your suggestions, still struggling with the thought of using fragrance although it does make sense..
My other soap that has held a good smell is litsea cubeba. 
Oh and my re batched soap only had the EO added before I messed it.. So confusing


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## Cellador (Jun 27, 2019)

How much EO are you adding per pound? And is that per pound of soap batter (oils & lye solution)? Or per pound of oils only?


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## Mlroun (Jun 28, 2019)

Cellador said:


> How much EO are you adding per pound? And is that per pound of soap batter (oils & lye solution)? Or per pound of oils only?


I am using 1 Tablespoon of EO’s total per 1 pound of oils and butter without using the amount of lye and water. I don’t have a small enough scale to measure any other way.


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## Cellador (Jun 28, 2019)

Mlroun said:


> I am using 1 Tablespoon of EO’s total per 1 pound of oils and butter without using the amount of lye and water. I don’t have a small enough scale to measure any other way.


When I used EOs in soap, these are the recommended usage rates I went by
https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/essential-oil-usage-rates-ifra-guidelines/

If your scale can weigh in grams, you can convert oz to grams to figure how much you need. 

Unfortunately,  I gave up on EOs in soap too. My original intent was to go "all natural" until I learned how relative "natural" can be. Plus, natural ingredients are expensive and prone to fading.
I'm not trying to discourage you- just some food for thought.


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## lucycat (Jun 29, 2019)

EO's are not much different from FO's when considering how much to use.  They differ a lot based on whether they are top, middle or base note oils.  Top note oils like Orange 10x/lime  I use 1 oz ppo  to 1.1 oz ppo.  Non folded orange/tangerine won't stick at all.   For Lavender I like .8 oz ppo but I rarely use lavender by itself.  It does fade but usually is fine for 6 months;  If I use lavender it is in a blend.  I used to sell a lavender, patchouli, mint blend that was wonderful.  Mints I usually use at .7- .8 oz ppo.  I think my spearmint/peppermint blend will last a year with a good scent.    I like patchouli at .7 oz ppo and cedar or fir I usually use as blends because they are so strong.  I can't imagine using them by themselves more than .4 oz ppo.  Clove/Cinnamon have low IFRA rates  and use .1-.2 oz ppo in a blend.   I don't care for Anise but I think it lasts forever.   

EO's that I use regularly and that are long lasting  are blends of  woody base notes, lemongrass, and mints.   They are also the ones where the cost is most comparable to good FO's.   Essential oils have increased in price substantially since I started soaping so  oils that I once purchased and used are no longer in a price range that work for me.


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## Mlroun (Jun 30, 2019)

lucycat said:


> EO's are not much different from FO's when considering how much to use.  They differ a lot based on whether they are top, middle or base note oils.  Top note oils like Orange 10x/lime  I use 1 oz ppo  to 1.1 oz ppo.  Non folded orange/tangerine won't stick at all.   For Lavender I like .8 oz ppo but I rarely use lavender by itself.  It does fade but usually is fine for 6 months;  If I use lavender it is in a blend.  I used to sell a lavender, patchouli, mint blend that was wonderful.  Mints I usually use at .7- .8 oz ppo.  I think my spearmint/peppermint blend will last a year with a good scent.    I like patchouli at .7 oz ppo and cedar or fir I usually use as blends because they are so strong.  I can't imagine using them by themselves more than .4 oz ppo.  Clove/Cinnamon have low IFRA rates  and use .1-.2 oz ppo in a blend.   I don't care for Anise but I think it lasts forever.
> 
> EO's that I use regularly and that are long lasting  are blends of  woody base notes, lemongrass, and mints.   They are also the ones where the cost is most comparable to good FO's.   Essential oils have increased in price substantially since I started soaping so  oils that I once purchased and used are no longer in a price range that work for me.


Thanks Lucycat,
I spent some time on Etsy looking at what scents were being sold in soap bars with only EO’s. The oils you mentioned are the ones That are commonly used. 
Brambleberry and Essential Depot look to have about the best price US prices. Any thoughts on the quality?
Also I am seeing that I need a smaller cosmetic scale to get a more accurate amount of EO’s used.


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## lucycat (Jun 30, 2019)

I normally purchase EO's at New Directions Aromatics (NDA);  Liberty and Lebermuth are other good sources.  I have never purchased fragrances at Essential  Depot.  I sometimes purchase EO's at Brambleberry but NDA prices are usually better as well as selection.   I don't have a problem with quality.   Over the years I have had oils that are better/worse than other years but not so much that I found it an issue in soap. 

The bigger issue is that harvests differ as well as demand so prices can differ a lot from year to year.   I only sell at fall craft fairs and that means a $6 price;  this year out of about 40 scents I will have 4 all EO soaps because of cost.

If you switch to grams for weight in soap you will be plenty accurate.  Also, if you are making small batches you will be more accurate in your lye measurement as well.   Most small scales for soap can be used in ounce and grams.  These fragrance amounts are not so small that you need a separate scale..


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## Mlroun (Jul 1, 2019)

lucycat said:


> I normally purchase EO's at New Directions Aromatics (NDA);  Liberty and Lebermuth are other good sources.  I have never purchased fragrances at Essential  Depot.  I sometimes purchase EO's at Brambleberry but NDA prices are usually better as well as selection.   I don't have a problem with quality.   Over the years I have had oils that are better/worse than other years but not so much that I found it an issue in soap.
> 
> The bigger issue is that harvests differ as well as demand so prices can differ a lot from year to year.   I only sell at fall craft fairs and that means a $6 price;  this year out of about 40 scents I will have 4 all EO soaps because of cost.
> 
> If you switch to grams for weight in soap you will be plenty accurate.  Also, if you are making small batches you will be more accurate in your lye measurement as well.   Most small scales for soap can be used in ounce and grams.  These fragrance amounts are not so small that you need a separate scale..


Wonderful information, I really appreciate it.


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