# Accidentally over superfatted...leave it alone?



## nsmar4211 (May 28, 2015)

Hi everyone!

Just started learning soaping for fun. I was playing around with the soapcalc and came up with a formula for what I had on hand. Went ahead and made a batch. Realized several hours later that I had left the superfat on 20% (sigh) from playing with coconut oil mixtures. Right now I have urm firm jelly? It did get rather hot and changed colors, so I'm guessing it at least partially gelled. It's currently sitting in a 12 bar mold....

So, should I just let it sit and slowly harden up (if it ever does) and try to quickly use it up before it goes rancid (I'm assuming that's what happens when overfatted)? Or is there a way to (gulp) rebatch and add more lye to drop the superfat number? Figure I can just plug in the same formula at a lower superfat and get the lye difference and mix it in? Or is that just asking for a mess.....

Mix was 1 part castor oil  4 parts canola and 5 parts coconut oil. 

Any advice? And yes, I did learn my lesson .


----------



## shunt2011 (May 28, 2015)

If you post your exact recipe including lye and water it would help us help you.


----------



## nsmar4211 (May 28, 2015)

*digs through papers* 
*moves cat*:lolno:
*digs through more papers*:Kitten Love:
*goes out to garage*
Yea...probably should bring the paper back in when done, right? :lolno:

Ok,

12oz Canola (store brand)
15 oz coconut (76 degree)
3 oz castor
3.78 oz lye
9.60 water (distilled)

Azure blue colorant, brambleberry stuff for cp, one ml (testing)... main batch no FO or additives. 

As mentioned, I had left the soapcalc on 20% superfat. 32% water, water to lye 2.5396:1

Was going for "simple and can buy in grocery store but not lard yet" mixture, which is where the oil choices came from. 

Lye was a bit over 100 oils were room temp (so around 87), mixed with stick blender bursts, traced within 2-3 minutes. 

So far, no oil slick or anything just a gel like consitancy. Poured into a silicone individual bar mold (curious if the silicone makes it take longer?).


----------



## Obsidian (May 28, 2015)

I'd just leave it and see what happens. I made bath soap once with a 25% SF and it was fine, a bit reduced lather but it hardened and never did develop DOS.


----------



## OliveOil2 (May 29, 2015)

I also think waiting to see what happens is your best bet. You have a fairly steep water discount for just starting to make soap. The good thing about that is there will be less water in this batch, which will hopefully make it harden up quicker. On the flip side you may have very rapid acceleration with this water amount once you have a recipe with fragrance. I would move it up a bit for your next batch, canola is a very slow moving oil, another oil or combination of oils may have much different results.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (May 29, 2015)

As it is also 50% co then it might not be too bad. If you had gone with a 5% superfat you might well have had a terribly drying soap on your hands. Most people keep their co at 20% or less when using a 5% superfat. Some at 30% or less.


----------



## nsmar4211 (May 29, 2015)

Ok, so no "add more lye" LOL. Waiting impatiently...it has solidified slightly. The two bars I had mixed 50% salt into I was able to unmold but the rest is telling me no. Of course it did this when I want to do another batch . Should probably get another mold....or just stick with boxes and lining them for now until I get the hang of this. 

Canola is slow moving...does that means takes forever to trace or does that mean takes forever to harden up? 

Is there something on the soapcalc that will tell me, "hey, this will be mush for three weeks!"? Or maybe a good resource that will help? I'm trying to stick with "grocery store" oils so I don't have a huge outlay... I just want to a)develop a skill and b) make Christmas gifts (melt and pour always weep here in high humidity for me). 

I loved how the 100% coconut oil bars have come out so far (thats the 20%superfat)...but they went to trace so fast I'd have no time to play!

Thanks for the help


----------



## Obsidian (May 29, 2015)

Well, you could add more lye but that would mean more water which would make your soap even softer. I made a 100% canola bar once and it took about three day to unmold and it was quite soft for a couple weeks after that. It never did harden properly, instead it stayed sort of spongy.

How firm is it now? is it more like room temp butter or firm jello? If you wanted, you could always toss it in a crock pot and see if you could cook it to a thicker consistency. 

Slow moving mean it traces slowly. The hardness in soapcal is supposed to show hardness at unmolding but not how long it takes to reach that point. If you use 50% lard in your recipes, your soap will always be plenty hard and it makes a great soap.

try soaping your coconut oil soap at a lower temp, that will help slow it down some.


----------



## nsmar4211 (May 29, 2015)

Note to self: Don't use 100% canola 

It's currently at "needs pressure to leave a dent" but not "jello" and not "ok, you can get me out of the silicone mold now". The unmolded ones are the same, so the mold isn't slowing them down apparantly. They're like semi melted chocolate that is about to turn hard again...but not yet. I think if they're not able to come out by Sunday night, I'm going to freeze em...  

Thank you for clearing up the hardness thing on the soapcalc...now I'm curious what a "29" bar (the lowest they list) would be! 

I'll try letting the lye cool all the way to room temp (which is about 80-87 in the garage) for another batch of 100% Coconut oil and see if it is more workable~! I'm thinking maybe I went too far in trace? I'm at the stage of "is this trace? better mix another short burst...is this trace? hrmmmm....EEEK!"


----------



## Susie (May 30, 2015)

Come to the lardy side...we have cookies.  

Seriously, once you go lard, you never go back.  

Lard makes marvelous soap, I promise you.  Easy to swirl and hardens beautifully, gives simply the most marvelous lather, cheap for most of us in the US, what more could you want??


----------



## nsmar4211 (May 30, 2015)

I was under the impression that lard based soap doesn't store well and stinks? It's hot and humid down here...and I've smelled some really stinky homemade soaps that were lard based... 

I laughed at the cookie remark :-o! Yes cookies are good. YUM!


----------



## Obsidian (May 30, 2015)

You might just have to try a batch and see how it does. I use lard in all my soaps now, some even are 100% and they store great for me, never any DOS. Its true that lard has a slight piggy smell when its melted but it doesn't usually come though in soap and never if you use scent.


----------



## not_ally (May 30, 2015)

Another vote for lard.  I think for people who are not committed to vegan/vegetarian oils, lard is *the* perfect basic soapmaking fat.   Makes a great, white, hard, beautiful bar.  Long shelf life if refrigerated/frozen.  Creamy lather.  Very moisturizing.  Super easy to work with/slow trace (you can speed it up if you want to by using lower water/higher temps/different FO's, etc.)  CHEAP.  I bought a 50 lb block at Smart and Final for $34.99, but it is still way cheaper than anything else in smaller amounts, plus usually locally available for most folks.  I would use lard even if it was more expensive, but it seems kind of miraculous to me that the best soapmaking fat on earth, IMO, is also incredibly inexpensive.

You could make a great bar using just lard, coconut and castor if you go down to your local grocery store and buy a tub today!

*This has been an PSA brought to you from the Soapy Lard Lovers Association of America.  JK, although I really do LUUURVE lard


----------



## cmzaha (May 30, 2015)

As much as I love lard, if you all remember I did some tests with 100% lard and tallow. They all formed some dos with the un-gelled being the biggest culprit. They went completely orange yellow, but did not smell to bad other than the normal un-fragranced lard soap. Today I am going to test Smart and Finals lard which has BHT and Citric Acid added to help preserve it. By the way I just paid $27 and some change for the 50lb block. Since it came down so much in price I am hoping they are not going to discontinue carrying it.


----------



## soapmage (May 30, 2015)

God I wish I had the stomach to work with lard. I've heard so many wonderful things about it in soap. I bought a lard soap from a good friend of mine and even through her FO she used, I still smelled it and it turned me off. I was a vegetarian for almost 25 years, so I guess that has a big part to play when it comes to soap making lol. Even though I ravage bacon now if it comes near me, I can't bring myself to buy that nice big bucket of cheap lard from the Walmart shelves. Don't ask me why, I don't understand it myself. It may be the whole "fat" issue. Even as a child, I couldn't or wouldn't eat steaks that were marbled because the fat I accidentally ate one time literally made me vomit. It was traumatic lol! To this day, the only steak I can even touch is a filet mignon since there's like zero fat. I can only eat my bacon if it's really crispy for the same reason. So yeah, it's the fat that's the issue.  I sure wish I could get over it and use some in my soapmaking. :-|


----------



## kchaystack (May 30, 2015)

I know I'll  be crucified by most of the lard pushers, but I can't tell the difference between my lard and palm soaps.  I've used a 60% lard recipe, a 30% lard recipe and when I use my 30% palm, I just don't feel a difference.  So I'll use lard if I haven't ordered any palm and run out, but otherwise I'll stick with my veggie oils.


----------



## jules92207 (May 30, 2015)

cmzaha said:


> As much as I love lard, if you all remember I did some tests with 100% lard and tallow. They all formed some dos with the un-gelled being the biggest culprit. They went completely orange yellow, but did not smell to bad other than the normal un-fragranced lard soap. Today I am going to test Smart and Finals lard which has BHT and Citric Acid added to help preserve it. By the way I just paid $27 and some change for the 50lb block. Since it came down so much in price I am hoping they are not going to discontinue carrying it.



Wow! I'm gonna have to pick some up. I admit that the difference between the lard and tallow soaps in your experiment wasn't such a difference that I would prefer one to the other, but I do like lard better. Thank you again for doing that test, it was very enlightening.


----------



## jules92207 (May 30, 2015)

kchaystack said:


> I know I'll  be crucified by most of the lard pushers, but I can't tell the difference between my lard and palm soaps.  I've used a 60% lard recipe, a 30% lard recipe and when I use my 30% palm, I just don't feel a difference.  So I'll use lard if I haven't ordered any palm and run out, but otherwise I'll stick with my veggie oils.



I do very much find a difference between them. I find the palm has less slide. Just my humble opinion. But I like palm too, just prefer lard. I also find lard easier to work with.


----------



## lenarenee (May 30, 2015)

I have several bars of high lard soap (about 70%) lard soap that's been sitting on the shelf since December (wal mart lard) and there's no sign of dos.

I've been using Smart 'n Final lard since, and those bars are also fine. Carolyn...maybe lard itself isn't the cause of the dos?

Just remembered I have a 70% tallow soap about 8 months old sitting on the shelf. This was grassfed organic from ebay. No dos. It was from a 1lb test loaf, and I only used a leftover sliver. It was my favorite at the time; very white, somewhat waxy feel to the bar, which I liked. Bigger bubbles, which I prefer. One bar left and I think I'm going to snag it for myself....after all...why should I only get the leftover bits??


----------



## lenarenee (May 30, 2015)

kchaystack said:


> I know I'll be crucified by most of the lard pushers, but I can't tell the difference between my lard and palm soaps. I've used a 60% lard recipe, a 30% lard recipe and when I use my 30% palm, I just don't feel a difference. So I'll use lard if I haven't ordered any palm and run out, but otherwise I'll stick with my veggie oils.


 

No worries and no crucifixation from me.  We all get to honor our preferences.  I'm the opposite of you; in newly cured soaps, one with palm and one with lard, I notice a big difference and I  much prefer the lard. But I recently pulled out an old trinity soap (one of my first, over a year old) and wow!  I loved it!  I'm still going to stick with lard due to my reluctance to use palm. But that 7lb block of ignored palm that's sitting around....I may have to drag it out and use it for Christmas gifts.


----------



## nsmar4211 (May 30, 2015)

Ok ok I'll try a lard recipe! LOL I actually have 5lbs of it under the cabinet. Might try lard and coconut...don't ask me why I like the coconut so much . 

Thing is....ya'll are calling a 8 month old bar "old"....I have some ivory (gasp) that I still haven't used up that's going on 5 years old... so when I'm talking about storing something I"m not kidding!

I got annoyed and froze the mold to get the bars out. We're now into "playdoh" consistency...blech! but at least I have my mold back . Fawning over the 100% coconut as I was moving the nice hard bars around to make room for the playdoh...


----------



## not_ally (May 30, 2015)

I can tell the difference between palm and lard too, or at least if feels to me as if the lard is creamier, which I like.  I do keep palm on hand for people who are really opposed to animal fats, but I definitely prefer the feel of lard and find it easier to work with.  Definitely no crucifiction, though, K, it's a big old soapy world, it is good that there are so may options to suit all of us.

Carolyn, those experiments were interesting, they *were* very DOS-y.  I wonder what happened there, especially since they were all 100% lard, tallow, etc?  I've only been using lard for about 4-5 mos, but no DOS so far.  That might be in part because I started adding EDTA for hard water about 3 mos ago, not sure if that helps w/r/t preventing DOS (I know citric acid and BHT are supposed to).  But even the early bars have yet to show signs of DOS.  I was using the Farmer John's brand then, have since switched to S&F, but neither has been a problem, so hope that remains the case.  

I generally like tallow, too, but agree with Lena, it does feel waxier.  Nice bubbles and hardness, though.

Soapmage, I feel for you.  I would hate to give up lard.  I would think it might be worth at least trying to make a sample batch to see if you still find that the scent comes through in cured soap.  I don't detect it at all, even the day after pour/CPOPing, which I usually do.  But if you really hate the fat smell you might not liking working with even during the measuring/melting part.

NSmar, let us know what you think.  I made a high-ish lard brine soap yesterday (63% lard/10% olive/20 % coconut, 7% castor), couldn't help testing a sliver today, and I can already tell it is going to be really, really good.


----------



## Obsidian (May 30, 2015)

I made a 50% lard, 50% coconut with 10% SF and really like them. Plenty of thick creamy lather.


----------



## nsmar4211 (May 31, 2015)

Ok, I tried the 50/50 mix. Will see how it goes. Cut it at 16 hours, much softer than 100% coconut but handleable (although I made a "rock" out of the trimmings LOL). Next time will let it sit longer!

I smell...........dough? Piggy dough? And now I'm hungry . 

My original superfatted soap is still soft ......but it's stopped being sticky at least!


----------



## jules92207 (May 31, 2015)

The scent factor is so interesting. I have been using lard forever and never had dos or find any piggy smell lingers after it becomes soap. I don't make unscented soaps usually though. Carolyn's test soaps were clearly a different experience altogether and definitely had a strong smell in the soap. I usually use the Armour brand lard which I know has all the additives though, but I have used the farmer john brand and didn't notice a difference.

I also want to add how much I do appreciate a good all veggie bar. I didn't say it in my previous post but definitely no crucifixion to those who avoid lard. One of my favorite bars doesn't have palm or lard in the recipe - it has a higher amount of coconut oil than I typically use but with cocoa butter and shea butter to compensate I think it balances it out. It lasts forever too!


----------



## Obsidian (May 31, 2015)

nsmar4211 said:


> Ok, I tried the 50/50 mix. Will see how it goes. Cut it at 16 hours, much softer than 100% coconut but handleable (although I made a "rock" out of the trimmings LOL). Next time will let it sit longer!
> 
> I smell...........dough? Piggy dough? And now I'm hungry .
> 
> My original superfatted soap is still soft ......but it's stopped being sticky at least!



Are you using full water? I generally use 2 parts water, 1 part lye and I can cut my soaps after 8-12 hours.


----------



## nsmar4211 (May 31, 2015)

The coconut soap uses a discount...the others I left the calculator at 35


----------

