# How Much (Quantity)



## kdm (Sep 20, 2021)

For a particular quantity of "other ingredients" in cold process bar soap, how much essential oil should be added?

I'm 100% certain it differs on a bunch of both objective and subjective stuff like:

what the "other ingredients" are
what the essential oil is
personal taste
...but what would be a baseline to start experimenting from?

Is 10g of Lavender Oil per 500g of other oil (half lard, half vegetable oils) a reasonable start point?

Thanks.

Actually, probably not the best place for the question. Could someone please move it over to Lye Based Soaps? Thanks.


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## TheGecko (Sep 20, 2021)

I'm guessing here that you are trying to replicate something store bought from their ingredients list?  

The thing with Essential Oils...each one has a safe usage rate to begin with and then there is an overall max rate and should not be "Other ingredients" if only because of potential allergies.

But to maybe get a ballpark of the quantity of a particular ingredient, the rule of thumb is to list the ingredients by the largest quantity to the smallest.  For my Recipe, it's Olive Oil, Water, Palm Oil, Coconut Oil, Sodium Hydroxide, Cocoa Butter, Shea Butter, Fragrance Oil and Castor Oil.  "Other ingredients"...if I used it that label, would be items that are less than 1%...like 1 tea PPO of Sodium Lactate or 1 tea PPO Kaolin Clay and colorants.


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## Zany_in_CO (Sep 20, 2021)

kdm said:


> Actually, probably not the best place for the question.


Actually, you're in the correct forum. 


kdm said:


> For a particular quantity of "other ingredients" in cold process bar soap, how much essential oil should be added?


It varies with each essential oil.
*ESSENTIAL OILS EDUCATION*



kdm said:


> what would be a baseline to start experimenting from?


Use rate also varies depending on the product.
From @DeeAnna 's Soapy Stuff
*IFRA GUIDELINES FOR FRAGRANCE*


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## earlene (Sep 20, 2021)

Follow safe usage rates per each individual fragrance, be it a specific Essential Oil from a specific manufacturer (check their documentation for each and every one), or Fragrance Oils.  They all differ.  There is no uniform rule of thumb you can rely on that is safe with all.  That would be nice, but it just does not exist.


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## Zing (Sep 20, 2021)

I'm on this site a lot, Find Free Essential Oil Blends - Essential Oil Calculator .


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## Zany_in_CO (Sep 20, 2021)

*EO Calc* is good, especially for the research EO safety feature! 

I trust and use *MMS Fragrance Calc* a lot for both EOs and FOs. Not all EOs are available but most of the most common ones are. For FOs from a different supplier, I just find something that's close to what I'm using and go with it.


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## kdm (Sep 20, 2021)

TheGecko said:


> I'm guessing here that you are trying to replicate something store bought from their ingredients list?


More mundane than that. I've never made soap before and I want to know how much perfume to add!
In fact, I've now made a successful batch and to my own recipe. Now I want to make it smell of something. Lavender or grapefruit, probably.


TheGecko said:


> IThe thing with Essential Oils...each one has a safe usage rate to begin with and then there is an overall max rate and should not be "Other ingredients" if only because of potential allergies.


Surely the rate of adding essential oil must be dependant on what the other ingredients are. ...and particularly the quantities of them.


TheGecko said:


> But to maybe get a ballpark of the quantity of a particular ingredient, the rule of thumb is to list the ingredients by the largest quantity to the smallest.  For my Recipe, it's Olive Oil, Water, Palm Oil, Coconut Oil, Sodium Hydroxide, Cocoa Butter, Shea Butter, Fragrance Oil and Castor Oil.  "Other ingredients"...if I used it that label, would be items that are less than 1%...like 1 tea PPO of Sodium Lactate or 1 tea PPO Kaolin Clay and colorants.


Nope. Not trying to duplicate a manufactured soap. I just genuinely don't know how much essential oil to add.



earlene said:


> Follow safe usage rates per each individual fragrance, be it a specific Essential Oil from a specific manufacturer (check their documentation for each and every one), or Fragrance Oils.  They all differ.  There is no uniform rule of thumb you can rely on that is safe with all.  That would be nice, but it just does not exist.


Even that just gives me an absolute maximum to use. Still looking for how to find that middle ground start point.



Zany_in_CO said:


> *EO Calc* is good, especially for the research EO safety feature!


I think that one essential oil is plenty. I just need to know how much of it to add to my lard!


Zany_in_CO said:


> I trust and use *MMS Fragrance Calc* a lot for both EOs and FOs.


Now we're talking. That's what I need. I put in Lavender Oil, and 500g, it tells me the result in OUNCES! (Fair enough, it's in ml, but it's to small a quantity to measure.) Good job it's also in %. Fortunately, I can mentally calculate 2% of 500.
Looks like I need to double-up on my lavender!
Thanks!


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## KiwiMoose (Sep 20, 2021)

When I started out I was guilty of adding too little EO to my soap.  I thought being EO that it would be strong, and until making soap I'd only ever used in 'drops' not in grams.  So I put in quite a few drops and thought "that will be enough".  It wasn't. 
Most of us probably use in the vicinity of 3 - 6% fragrance to the amount of soap oil. Most fragrance oils are safe in that range ( it will tell you on the label) and, as already stated, EOs often have a lower safety range.
SO, in short, I would generally use 15g fragrance for 500g oils ( making allowances within that for safe usage rates)
I think it was @cmzaha or maybe @amd  that once said they found if an FO was not particularly strong to begin with, there was no point putting more in to make it stronger.  Some fragrances are just weak and that's the way it is.  Wasting more of it in an attempt to counteract weakness is not cost effective.  That's always stuck with me as very sage advice.  So if you come a across a 'weak' fragrance, just skip it next time and use something else that gives you more bang for your buck.


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## ghoshsmita (Sep 21, 2021)

kdm said:


> For a particular quantity of "other ingredients" in cold process bar soap, how much essential oil should be added?
> 
> I'm 100% certain it differs on a bunch of both objective and subjective stuff like:
> 
> ...


You can check safe usage rates of different essential oils on EOcalc. There is no rule of thumb which applies to all essential os


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## Zany_in_CO (Sep 21, 2021)

kdm said:


> Now I want to make it smell of something. Lavender or grapefruit, probably.





kdm said:


> I think that one essential oil is plenty.


One EO will do fine in some cases but citrus and mints (TOP notes) don't last long without MIDDLE & BOTTOM notes or an "anchor". Hence, the blends.


kdm said:


> I just need to know how much of it to add to my lard!


Just an FYI, in my experience, EOs seem to "stick" well in lard soaps. 

Also, the default settings on SoapCalc has fragrance at 0.5% which is often the recommended amount for soap. It does not change no matter which oils/fats/butters are used. You will learn over time and with experience whether to increase or decrease that % depending on the EO used, i.e., cinnamon & clove are known skin irritants and heaters, so you would use less.


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## Mobjack Bay (Sep 21, 2021)

If you’re going to use EOs, you should do some homework.  Some are “generally recognized as safe” (GRAS) and others that we so want to put in our soap because they smell wonderful are not. By using blends of EOs, you can add something like Ylang Ylang or Basil at a smaller percentage of the blend and remain within safe usage levels in the finished soap.


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## Megan (Sep 21, 2021)

As a note: Lavender in particular is SUPER strong in...well...everything, including soap. 10 g / 500 g (2%) would be enough for me. I would not double. At most, I would recommend 3%, but it's going to be pretty strong (and I like strong smells, but beware Lavender).


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## maryloucb (Sep 21, 2021)

The calculation for how much essential oils to use is based on the amount of oils in your recipe. Does not matter what kind of oils. I use 5% unless it is noted that it is not safe to use at that rate for a particular essential oil (cinnamon, clove and most "spicy" oils, along with some others.) As others have said, eocalc.com is a great resource.


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## ResolvableOwl (Sep 21, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> default settings on SoapCalc has fragrance at 0.5%


0.5 oz/lb = 0.5 oz / 16 oz = 3.125 oz / 100 oz = 3.125% (not 0.5%).


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## Zany_in_CO (Sep 21, 2021)

ResolvableOwl said:


> 0.5 oz/lb = 0.5 oz / 16 oz = 3.125 oz / 100 oz = 3.125% (not 0.5%).


Good catch! I stand corrected. 0.5 oz ppo is correct. 0.5% is not. I don't know what I was thinking!


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## Babyshoes (Sep 22, 2021)

As I understand, here in the UK, soap sellers are limited to max 3% (of total batch weight) of fragrance, or the IFRA limit if that's lower. 

Even though I don't sell, I stick to 3% or under of FO, EO, or blend, and if a scent isn't strong enough at that rate, it simply won't get used again.


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## kdm (Sep 22, 2021)

ResolvableOwl said:


> 0.5 oz/lb = 0.5 oz / 16 oz = 3.125 oz / 100 oz = 3.125% (not 0.5%).


I would NOT have spotted that. I thought 0.5% was a bit low, but the fact that the units are archaic immetric ones meant it went over my head.
I've neve understood why imperial measures use percent. Why not user "per 128th" or something?  

Sorry. it's a sore point at the moment. The UK has been metric for at least my half century, but our illustrious leaders are thinking of permitting the return of the "pennyweight per hand furlong" (unit of pressure) way of measuring things. :-(


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## Zany_in_CO (Sep 22, 2021)

kdm said:


> The UK has been metric for at least my half century, but our illustrious leaders are thinking of permitting the return of the "pennyweight per hand furlong" (unit of pressure) way of measuring things. :-(


Egads! Just another example of the lunatics running the asylum, me thinks.


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## Bubble Agent (Sep 22, 2021)

@kdm  Do you have some favourite essential oils you want to use? I know you mentioned Lavender and grapefruit/sitrus already. But any other ones?

In my _personal _soaps I use 5% lavender, because the lavender I use can be used up to 20% in soap (as per the sds sheet) I love lavender alone, or with lemongrass.



Babyshoes said:


> As I understand, here in the UK, *soap sellers are limited to max 3% (of total batch weight) of fragrance*, or the IFRA limit if that's lower.
> 
> Even though I don't sell, I stick to 3% or under of FO, EO, or blend, and if a scent isn't strong enough at that rate, it simply won't get used again.



Not quite correct, but I do understand it is easy to misunderstand that 3% number!

For those of us that have to follow the EU regulations _(regarding fragrance when selling soaps_) we are not allowed to use more than *3% of the combined weight of the oils/fat, the lye and 10% of the waterweight. *

So not 3% total batch weight unfortunately, which would give us more allowed fragrance. Annoying yes, but it is what it is...

Therefore, depending on each recipe`s waterweight i.e 33 % Lye Concentration vs 38% Liquid as a percent of oils, the allowed grams of a fragrance will fluctuate from recipe to recipe.

But it is indeed correct that if the IFRA is lower than our allowed fragrance, we do have to follow the IFRA first and foremost.

That being said, I use 5-6% fragrance in my _personal _soaps myself (depending on safe usage rates/IFRA) But the soaps that I will be offering to the public must adhere to the previous stated formula as per approved safety assessment.


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## earlene (Sep 22, 2021)

Bubble Agent said:


> @kdm
> For those of us that have to follow the EU regulations _(regarding fragrance when selling soaps_) we are not allowed to use more than *3% of the combined weight of the oils/fat, the lye and 10% of the waterweight. *
> 
> So not 3% total batch weight unfortunately, which would give us more allowed fragrance. Annoying yes, but it is what it is...



That is interesting, and it makes sense to me why 10% of the water weight was chosen.  I suspect it has to do with anticipated water loss after cure, with the expectation being that 90% of the water weight is lost, and therefore the 3% would be the correct portion for the Net Weight of each bar of soap.  Someone really put a lot of thought into the calculation for fragrance usage.

Of course, I may disagree with the 3% limit, but the rational for how the percentage is calculated is brilliant, IMO.


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## Bubble Agent (Sep 22, 2021)

earlene said:


> That is interesting, and it makes sense to me why 10% of the water weight was chosen.  I suspect it has to do with anticipated water loss after cure, with the expectation being that 90% of the water weight is lost, and therefore the 3% would be the correct portion for the Net Weight of each bar of soap.  Someone really put a lot of thought into the calculation for fragrance usage.
> 
> Of course, I may disagree with the 3% limit, but the rational for how the percentage is calculated is brilliant, IMO.



I know, and I also disagree with such a low limit. But I do understand it is a specific reasoning behind the limitations, so I am fine with it (now, lol). I know how to make the best out of my recipe with the fragrances and limitations, and I am making sure I only use the oils that performs the best in lower concentrations, so nothing feels like a waste.

I have three essential oil variations that I have in my assessment - Rosemary & Spearmint, Lavender & Lemongrass, Lime, Fir & Cypress (french). They stick quite well, and are not too weak to be noticed, even after a year. 

What I found interesting is that my assessment has quoted recommandations from Tisserand when it came to safety, usage rates etc. So his work is listed in my safety assessment, and since I have his book I recognised the things that were quoted. No other sources were mentioned at all when it came to essential oils, so his work seems to be regarded as the best, at least for my assessment team, since they used only his work as the scaffolding for essential oil safety in their work.


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## kdm (Sep 22, 2021)

Bubble Agent said:


> @kdm  Do you have some favourite essential oils you want to use? I know you mentioned Lavender and grapefruit/sitrus already. But any other ones?


Just those two initially. I've made two batches of 5 bars each already this week and clearly I don't wash enough for them to be useful!
I think I should have doubled up on my lavender. I haven't done the grapefruit yet, but think it might have to be even stronger.
If I had to pick another one, I might go with mint.
I have a truckload of juniper berries. I was considering trying to extract the essence.
In fact, I'd like to make a transparent soap with just juniper. Just as a sort of apprentice piece!


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## Babyshoes (Sep 23, 2021)

Bubble Agent said:


> Not quite correct, but I do understand it is easy to misunderstand that 3% number!
> 
> For those of us that have to follow the EU regulations _(regarding fragrance when selling soaps_) we are not allowed to use more than *3% of the combined weight of the oils/fat, the lye and 10% of the waterweight. *
> 
> ...



That's good to know, thanks for that clarification. As I mentioned, I don't sell so have never had an assessment done, that was my understanding based on what I've read or heard others say about their limitations within their assessments.


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## Bubble Agent (Sep 23, 2021)

Babyshoes said:


> That's good to know, thanks for that clarification. As I mentioned, I don't sell so have never had an assessment done, that was my understanding based on what I've read or heard others say about their limitations within their assessments.



Totally understandable @Babyshoes ! And I also initially thought the same as you, because things I had read in different places, even some blogs, that said that they had their soaps assessed, and clearly said that 3% fragrance of the complete batch weight was the standard norm. So when I started the whole process I double checked with them (Scott Grainger) thinking they would of course say, _yup, you got it right, gurrl, lets do 'dis_.
But of course they didn`t

I apologize if I came accross as a_ know-it-all_, but I just wanted to be clear instead of giving a vague reply when I just as well be specific.


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## Bubble Agent (Sep 23, 2021)

kdm said:


> Just those two initially. I've made two batches of 5 bars each already this week and clearly *I don't wash enough for them to be useful!*
> I think I should have doubled up on my lavender. I haven't done the grapefruit yet, but think it might have to be even stronger.
> If I had to pick another one, I might go with mint.
> I have a truckload of juniper berries. I was considering trying to extract the essence.
> In fact, I'd like to make a transparent soap with just juniper. Just as a sort of apprentice piece!



Set some bars to the side and let them sit, and test them over time. Never mind the fading fragrance, but test the soap itself and save the recipe beside them so you know what it is if they turn out to be the most fantastic soaps in your stash.

*Grapefruit *- the the times I have used pink grapefruit (the essential oil) it faded terribly, and I used it at 5% of the oil weight (I checked the SDS beforehand and it had no limitations in soap for personal uses) and after 6 months it was just pffft - gone alltogether. So if you want to use it perhaps pair it with something to anchor it. I don`t use it for soap anymore, but it is great in cleaning products. Fresh and clean smelling.

I have not had any success using kaolin or other clays to anchor that or other faders, and I have tried so many times. But maybe you have better luck than me if you haven`t tried it.

*Mint* is a fresh one, and I have kept a bar from february 2020, at 4% it has a _faint _mint smell. When I pair it with rosemary it sticks better (2% mint & 2% rosemary) My favourite is to pair it with spearmint.  I love the chewing gum smell it gives, but some doesn`t. It just makes for a refreshing bar. I hot process it though, or else it fades a bit to much.

*Mint and other minty oils* - just be sure to take into acount the _ahem _cooling effect. I mean, since you mentioned before that you tested soap on your.... on your... ahem..._body._


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## Zany_in_CO (Sep 23, 2021)

Bubble Agent said:


> *Grapefruit *- after 6 months it was just pffft - gone alltogether. So if you want to use it perhaps pair it with something to anchor it.


*WSP Fragrance Calc *

* EO/FO blend for Grapefruit.*


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## Bubble Agent (Sep 23, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> *WSP Fragrance Calc *
> 
> * EO/FO blend for Grapefruit.*



Thanks Zany, but I am a bit confused to why you gave me the links?

The calculator gave me 5% safe usage rate for CP soap, the same rate as I have used but did not stick. The fragrance blend I am sure is lovely, but WSP does not ship to the EU/Europe, so even if I wanted to try the blend you linked to I can`t get a hold of it.

But thank you anyway for trying to help!


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## ResolvableOwl (Sep 23, 2021)

Longest lasting EOs
					

I made an oatmeal soap with star anise and 10-fold orange - and I love it!! Not sure how long the orange is going to last, but for the meantime I'm enjoying it. In fact, I regularly share soap with friends and family, but I'm keeping these for myself. :p




					www.soapmakingforum.com


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## Bubble Agent (Sep 23, 2021)

@ResolvableOwl Oooooo, I LOVE star anise! I blended 1% with 2% of Vanilla Cream from Nurture. Nom! And a crazy sticker too. I have used up the last of the soap now, but it stuck for 2 1/2 years. It really is one of those crazy sticking essential oils that is fun to have. Tisserand says it can be used at 1.75%, but I found 1% was plenty. I may try a bit more next time!

Nobody else that I know likes star anise, so I made it just for me.

(_there is obviously something wrong with them..._)


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## Zany_in_CO (Sep 23, 2021)

Bubble Agent said:


> Thanks Zany, but I am a bit confused to why you gave me the links?


Oh dear. I hadn't had my 2nd cuppa coffee yet!  I should have explained, I like grapefruit EO but, as you mentioned, it needs to be paired with an "anchor". I like Yuzu FO and when I didn't find it, I just linked the WSP calc any way, which gives rates for EOs, FOs, and blends. I'm math-challenged, so anytime I can find a tool to do the math for me, I'm happy.


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