# My first lye burn



## MickeyRat (Jun 23, 2019)

I've been making soap a little more than a year and I've had a few accidents but, I wasn't burned.  I had mixed the lye and oils in a batch and was working it to trace when I spilled about half the batch in my lap.  At first, I thought my pants had saved me.  I stripped them off and threw them n the garage sink.  About the time I got back, i could tell that I was in trouble.  So I ran for the shower where we have a hand held nozzle.  I sprayed one leg then the other.  For a while, I was switching back and forth between legs pretty quickly but, it got better soon.  

One thing I noticed is that the oils were still on my legs.  I'm not sure it was the right thing to do but, I washed them off with soap hoping that would make the water get the lye better.  That might have been the wrong thing to do but, it seemed to help.

The other thing I noticed as time went on is that places I didn't think were exposed initially, started to burn so I sprayed them too.  I was in the shower about 30 minutes.  The best thing to do is avoid this situation.  However, if something like this does happen to you, spend more time rinsing than you think you need.

I'm sure there are others with worse stories to tell.  I'm just posting this to remind everyone to be careful and to get any advice others have to offer.


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## Mobjack Bay (Jun 23, 2019)

@MickeyRat I’m really sorry to hear that you got burned.  It sounds painful.  Hopefully others will chime in with ways to neutralize the lye as quickly as possible. (Edited to delete unhelpful speculation)


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## Iseleigh (Jun 23, 2019)

MickeyRat said:


> I've been making soap a little more than a year and I've had a few accidents but, I wasn't burned.  I had mixed the lye and oils in a batch and was working it to trace when I spilled about half the batch in my lap.  At first, I thought my pants had saved me.  I stripped them off and threw them n the garage sink.  About the time I got back, i could tell that I was in trouble.  So I ran for the shower where we have a hand held nozzle.  I sprayed one leg then the other.  For a while, I was switching back and forth between legs pretty quickly but, it got better soon.
> 
> One thing I noticed is that the oils were still on my legs.  I'm not sure it was the right thing to do but, I washed them off with soap hoping that would make the water get the lye better.  That might have been the wrong thing to do but, it seemed to help.
> 
> ...


 Are you sure it was the oils and not the lye itself? Lye solution is slippery, like soap. I keep white vinegar nearby in case the lye gets on skin as it helps neutralize it. 
In my experience, if I feel slippery, the next stage will be itching then burning. If I start itching somewhere besides my hands, I know I've gotta grab the vinegar quick. I usually wash with soap after and haven't had a problem.


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## cmzaha (Jun 23, 2019)

Vinegar is a no no. Lye is a chemical burn that you do not want to spray with vinegar. MSDS states to use copious amounts of cool water, if a spill happens.

The poster spilled her batter getting to trace, so it was probably already emuslified, but raw soap will burn just as much.


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## MickeyRat (Jun 23, 2019)

Thanks for the replies folks.  It really hasn't been that bad so far.  I think I got it rinsed off fast enough to avoid all but a little skin irritation.  Something like a sunburn.



Iseleigh said:


> Are you sure it was the oils and not the lye itself? Lye solution is slippery, like soap. I keep white vinegar nearby in case the lye gets on skin as it helps neutralize it.
> In my experience, if I feel slippery, the next stage will be itching then burning. If I start itching somewhere besides my hands, I know I've gotta grab the vinegar quick. I usually wash with soap after and haven't had a problem.



Hard to say.  It felt oily even with water running on it.  I'm not sure it was the right thing to do in this case.  Previously most of my mishaps were at trace, pouring into the mold etc. Then a quick rinse and wash with soap usually does the trick.  This time I hadn't been mixing long so very little of the lye had a chance to saponify.  I don't know whether it makes a difference but, I was using a 5% KOH 95% NOH mixture.  

DeeAnna - who knows more about the chemistry of what we're doing than I ever will - has a web page that I can't find now.  However, on there she explains that it's a bad idea to use vinegar for this situation.  She recommends rinsing a lot.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 23, 2019)

Here it is -- https://classicbells.com/soap/lyeFirstAid.asp

You were right to rinse as long as you did. You were also right to use soap to get the oils off once the worst of the spill was flushed off your skin. The oils would make it harder to remove all of the NaOH, and lingering traces of NaOH may have continued to damage your skin if you hadn't washed with soap. Good thinking , @MickeyRat -- you handled a stressful, scary experience extremely well.

Getting on my soapbox about safety -- There's another thread right now where people are talking about not wearing eye protection when soaping. Frankly, I can't understand why they don't, but maybe it takes personal experience to drive that lesson home to some people.

As a little kid, I accidentally got sprayed with battery acid (sulfuric acid) on my face. Some got in my eyes. The result was hours in the emergency room getting my eyes rinsed out. It took over a week of ongoing pain as my eyes healed. And even today, decades later, I have one eye that tears much easier than the other. I was lucky there weren't worse permanent effects.

The consequences of NaOH in the eye are the same. I understand why people don't feel the need to wear a hazmat suit while soaping, but I don't get it about not wearing eye protection. A drop of NaOH on the skin can be easily dealt with, but that same drop in an eye means a lot of misery at the very least and permanent loss of eyesight at worst.

I believe this experience as well as working as a tech in an analytical chemistry lab are the reasons why I'm more safety conscious than others.


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## Iseleigh (Jun 23, 2019)

MickeyRat said:


> Hard to say.  It felt oily even with water running on it.  I'm not sure it was the right thing to do in this case.  Previously most of my mishaps were at trace, pouring into the mold etc. Then a quick rinse and wash with soap usually does the trick.  This time I hadn't been mixing long so very little of the lye had a chance to saponify.  I don't know whether it makes a difference but, I was using a 5% KOH 95% NOH mixture.
> 
> DeeAnna - who knows more about the chemistry of what we're doing than I ever will - has a web page that I can't find now.  However, on there she explains that it's a bad idea to use vinegar for this situation.  She recommends rinsing a lot.



Ah. I've been fortunate enough (in my very limited soaping experience) to not have a bad lye spill or slosh, so I learned something today.


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## plantiest (Jun 23, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Here it is -- https://classicbells.com/soap/lyeFirstAid.asp
> 
> You were right to rinse as long as you did. You were also right to use soap to get the oils off once the worst of the spill was flushed off your skin. The oils would make it harder to remove all of the NaOH, and lingering traces of NaOH may have continued to damage your skin if you hadn't washed with soap. Good thinking , @MickeyRat -- you handled a stressful, scary experience extremely well.
> 
> ...


Speaking of safety, can I ask a question?  I have been using a face shield that goes from my forehead down to my chin.  It allows me to use the mask of my choice.  Would you feel comfortable with this as eye protection, or would you also go for the goggles.  I understand the concept of the best safety, but I'm not sure if safety glasses would unseat the mask.  

Do folks also use rubberized aprons for accidental spills?  This is just out of curiosity.  I'd always like to hear if there are better safety measures than what I'm already using. 

To the original poster, awesome that you had a shower handy!  I've heard lots and lots of water to flush the lye off.  Good instincts you have!


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## MickeyRat (Jun 23, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Here it is -- https://classicbells.com/soap/lyeFirstAid.asp



Thanks for the link DeeAnna and for confirming I did the right thing.  BTW I used your method to make some pine tar soap.  It turned out fine.  I did it just to see if I could pull it off.  Now  have a friend that can't get enough. He's a true believer. 



plantiest said:


> Speaking of safety, can I ask a question?  I have been using a face shield that goes from my forehead down to my chin.  It allows me to use the mask of my choice.  Would you feel comfortable with this as eye protection, or would you also go for the goggles.  I understand the concept of the best safety, but I'm not sure if safety glasses would unseat the mask.
> 
> Do folks also use rubberized aprons for accidental spills?  This is just out of curiosity.  I'd always like to hear if there are better safety measures than what I'm already using.
> 
> To the original poster, awesome that you had a shower handy!  I've heard lots and lots of water to flush the lye off.  Good instincts you have!



I would think it would be possible to splash something behind the face shield.  It's your eyes you're risking.  So, what do you feel comfortable with?

That rubberized apron sounds like a good idea.  I think I'll look into it.

I would say that you shouldn't soap if you don't at least have a hose handy.  Whatever you use, you may need to pull some clothes off.  You can't be shy about it.


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## Primrose (Jun 23, 2019)

Well I'm one of those who doesn't wear safety gear. I wouldn't recommend it to other people, but I've splashed lye water on my skin and in my eye, and apart from a little tingle personally I don't get much if any of a burn. 

MickeyRat I'm glad yours isn't too bad and you were able to deal with it properly!


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## shunt2011 (Jun 23, 2019)

Iseleigh said:


> Are you sure it was the oils and not the lye itself? Lye solution is slippery, like soap. I keep white vinegar nearby in case the lye gets on skin as it helps neutralize it.
> In my experience, if I feel slippery, the next stage will be itching then burning. If I start itching somewhere besides my hands, I know I've gotta grab the vinegar quick. I usually wash with soap after and haven't had a problem.



Never put vinegar on a lye spill/burn on the skin.  It will do more damage.     Just rinse well then I wash with soap.


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## Iseleigh (Jun 23, 2019)

shunt2011 said:


> Never put vinegar on a lye spill/burn on the skin.  It will do more damage.     Just rinse well then I wash with soap.


 Do you mean lye solution or straight lye? I was talking about lye solution if it makes a difference. I should've been clearer. If it doesn't make a difference I should probably stop doing that.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 23, 2019)

_"...Speaking of safety, can I ask a question? I have been using a face shield that goes from my forehead down to my chin. It allows me to use the mask of my choice. Would you feel comfortable with this as eye protection, or would you also go for the goggles...."_

Yes, a face shield definitely can work and it lets a person also wear safety glasses or prescription glasses.

A face shield has to be rated for chemical protection, however. If you go to the dentist, the staff sometimes wear impact-rated face shields which aren't what you want, even though these shields look very light, cool and comfy.

A chemical face shield has a piece that curves up from the clear portion of the shield to curve back over your forehead. That piece is there so a splash won't drip off  the top of your head and down in your eyes. Here's an article of mine about this topic -- https://classicbells.com/soap/eyeProtection.asp

_"...Do you mean lye solution or straight lye?..."_

Either one -- it doesn't matter. _Never _use vinegar or any other acid to neutralize an alkali on the body. Remove the alkali by rinsing with plain water. The point here is to get the alkali _off your skin_ as soon as possible. If the only water you have available to you is a mud puddle, use it. But cool, clean, _running _water is the best.


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## TheDragonGirl (Jun 23, 2019)

Iseleigh said:


> Do you mean lye solution or straight lye? I was talking about lye solution if it makes a difference. I should've been clearer. If it doesn't make a difference I should probably stop doing that.


It doesn't! It makes the lye solution heat up when it reacts to neutralize it, which can give you a thermal burn on top of the chemical burn.


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## Iseleigh (Jun 23, 2019)

TheDragonGirl said:


> It doesn't! It makes the lye solution heat up when it reacts to neutralize it, which can give you a thermal burn on top of the chemical burn.


Good thing that's never happened. Ya'll might've saved my skin. Lol


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## TheDragonGirl (Jun 23, 2019)

Iseleigh said:


> Good thing that's never happened. Ya'll might've saved my skin. Lol


Pretty lucky! When I mix up my lye into my water/vinegar mix it goes from cool water to boiling instantly.


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## earlene (Jun 23, 2019)

I do


plantiest said:


> Do folks also use rubberized aprons for accidental spills?  This is just out of curiosity.  I'd always like to hear if there are better safety measures than what I'm already using.



I always wear an apron, but not rubberized.  I used to wear one when I washed dishes at the restaurant.  I found it horribly horribly hot, although necessary to keep my clothes from getting drenched, of course.

But here at home, I simply wear a full size apron to protect my clothes.  I have several and wear a different one for making soap than I do for cooking or dirty housework.


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## plantiest (Jun 23, 2019)

MickeyRat said:


> Thanks for the link DeeAnna and for confirming I did the right thing.  BTW I used your method to make some pine tar soap.  It turned out fine.  I did it just to see if I could pull it off.  Now  have a friend that can't get enough. He's a true believer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I started soaping in the bathroom, since we have a long counter.  There is a shower with a hand wand.  I have no modesty whatsoever.  If I spill on me, the clothes will be stripped off instantly.  

I'm curious how they will interfere with the mask, though I'm sure there must be some that will work.  I'll look further into it.  I was thinking more that the shield would provide face and eye protection, but I thought maybe there were other considerations I wasn't thinking of.  



earlene said:


> I do
> 
> 
> I always wear an apron, but not rubberized.  I used to wear one when I washed dishes at the restaurant.  I found it horribly horribly hot, although necessary to keep my clothes from getting drenched, of course.
> ...



I'm going to see if there are any lightly rubberized aprons, just enough for the solution to bead up rather than soak in, but I honestly have no idea at this point.  It will be interesting to investigate.


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## Mobjack Bay (Jun 23, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Here it is -- https://classicbells.com/soap/lyeFirstAid.asp
> 
> You were right to rinse as long as you did. You were also right to use soap to get the oils off once the worst of the spill was flushed off your skin. The oils would make it harder to remove all of the NaOH, and lingering traces of NaOH may have continued to damage your skin if you hadn't washed with soap. Good thinking , @MickeyRat -- you handled a stressful, scary experience extremely well.
> 
> ...



I posted on one of the threads, perhaps the one you’re referring to, about getting formaldehyde in my eye many years ago. It was a terrible experience. I always wear my biggest eyeglasses when making soap, but this is reminding me that I should get goggles.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 23, 2019)

Yes, @Mobjack Bay, you're thinking of the same thread. Your experience sounds pretty awful too! Ugh.

Frankly, any kind of eye protection is better than nothing. If you are only willing to wear regular eye glasses, then so be it. But please wear _something_ to protect those peepers. 

I can't recall a single time in the 5 years I've been soaping when lye solution or soap batter has actually landed on my goggles. But I wear chemical splash goggles anyways, because I'm not going to play Russian roulette with my eyes. I didn't know what trouble I was getting myself into when I was a kid, but I do now. The consequences are too painful and too potentially disastrous to experience twice.


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## Aleja (Jun 23, 2019)

I actually forgot to wear my goggles yesterday, I was in such a rush to make the soap because I had somewhere to go!! and some soap batter actually splashed really really r e a l l y close to my eyes. Thankfully nothing happened, I washed my face really fast, poured the soap in a mold and then washed my face for like 20mins straight. It was a reminder to always wear eye protection. I was in school 2 years for chemical engineering so I should know better. But I'm happy nothing happened.


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## cerelife (Jun 24, 2019)

Goggles are the one thing I won't soap without! I don't wear them constantly, but anytime I'm handling lye or soap batter, I have them on. Even just texturing the tops of my soap or carrying the finished loaves to my curing room to insulate and gel - goggle are on.
Let me tell y'all why...I've had soap land on my goggles 3 times over the past 10 years of soaping!! And it's not like I'm particularly clumsy or not paying attention to safety, sometimes things just happen. Once it was when I was dividing my batter into cups for a swirl and was working fast. Apparently too fast since the batter hit the bottom of one cup and a splash hit me in the face. The second time I was pouring lye into my oils over my stick blender and the bottom of the stick blender fell off (it was old and has since been replaced!) and again - a splash to the face. The last time was when I was texturing the top of a loaf and got startled by the doorbell. I was deep into the zen of soaping and when the doorbell rang, I jumped and dropped the spoon I was using. The spoon hit the counter and flung a dollop of thick soap batter at the perfect trajectory to land directly over the left lens of my goggles. Freak accident? Sure. But like DeeAnna said: "I'm not willing to play Russian Roulette with my eyesight."
Also, I never used to wear goggles while carrying my finished loaves to another room. But a member here shared her story a few years ago about how she ended up in the ER because she tripped while doing the same and the fresh soap hit her in the face/eyes.
It's just not worth the risk. No matter how careful or experienced you are, accidents can still happen.
Be safe, my friends.


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## Fiona Robertson (Jun 24, 2019)

I've found that I'm most at risk of being splashed when doing the washing up so I keep my goggles on for the cleaning up operation.  I printed off DeeAnnas safety tips and have made my husband read them too...in case he finds me in a heap on the floor covered in soap batter one day


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## plantiest (Jun 24, 2019)

cerelife said:


> Goggles are the one thing I won't soap without! I don't wear them constantly, but anytime I'm handling lye or soap batter, I have them on. Even just texturing the tops of my soap or carrying the finished loaves to my curing room to insulate and gel - goggle are on.
> Let me tell y'all why...I've had soap land on my goggles 3 times over the past 10 years of soaping!! And it's not like I'm particularly clumsy or not paying attention to safety, sometimes things just happen. Once it was when I was dividing my batter into cups for a swirl and was working fast. Apparently too fast since the batter hit the bottom of one cup and a splash hit me in the face. The second time I was pouring lye into my oils over my stick blender and the bottom of the stick blender fell off (it was old and has since been replaced!) and again - a splash to the face. The last time was when I was texturing the top of a loaf and got startled by the doorbell. I was deep into the zen of soaping and when the doorbell rang, I jumped and dropped the spoon I was using. The spoon hit the counter and flung a dollop of thick soap batter at the perfect trajectory to land directly over the left lens of my goggles. Freak accident? Sure. But like DeeAnna said: "I'm not willing to play Russian Roulette with my eyesight."
> Also, I never used to wear goggles while carrying my finished loaves to another room. But a member here shared her story a few years ago about how she ended up in the ER because she tripped while doing the same and the fresh soap hit her in the face/eyes.
> It's just not worth the risk. No matter how careful or experienced you are, accidents can still happen.
> Be safe, my friends.



Those are just the types of things I can imagine happening to me.  The freak accident stuff.  Thanks for sharing this! Since I have no access to medical care at all right now, prevention is all I have.  I'll put in the order today for my safety goggles for the extra protection.  Googles, mask, and face shield should have it covered!  

Since this is a new thing to me, can anyone link me up to their preferred safety glasses/goggles?


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## DeeAnna (Jun 24, 2019)

Here are the other two safety equipment articles I've written:
https://classicbells.com/soap/respirator.asp
https://classicbells.com/soap/eyeProtection.asp

Unless you are sensitive to fragrance, a respirator is useful mostly for making lye solution -- right when the solution is really hot and steamy. If you have good ventilation (like working under the hood of your stove), a respirator might not be needed even then if you don't hang your nose over the lye container and keep the container lightly covered as much as possible to keep the vapors where they belong -- IN the container rather than floating around the open air.

If you're sensitive to fragrances, you should probably be wearing a respirator the entire time you're making soap or handling the freshly made soap -- any time when the scent is detectable. The type of respirator for protecting against fragrance is different than that for dust and vapors -- read my article about respirators for more. A quote from that article -- 

Respirators are not the only solution nor are they always the best solution for controlling your exposure to dusts, mists, and volatile chemicals. It is a much better approach to first reduce how much of these pollutants get into the air in your home or workshop and then use a respirator as insurance. Ways to reduce air pollution in your home or workshop when soaping or making B&B products --

Work with lye, fragrances, and dusty ingredients outdoors in good weather
Using effective ventilation in your work area (such as a running stove hood that vents outdoors)
Keeping your lye container lightly covered at all times, but especially while the solution is hot
Wearing an effective respirator as a final bit of insurance​
***

There is no one safety goggle or glasses that is best for everyone -- fit and comfort are so individual. Problem with buying safety gear at the local "big box" store is most of the safety products in these stores are chosen for men with their larger physiques.

For example, I keep a large box of disposable foam ear plugs in my shop for everyone to use when operating machinery. I didn't realize until I shopped at a safety equipment store that these plugs come in small and medium sizes. Us girls really appreciate the smaller ones -- they go easily into the ear canal and stay put.


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## earlene (Jun 24, 2019)

plantiest said:


> I started soaping in the bathroom, since we have a long counter.  There is a shower with a hand wand.  I have no modesty whatsoever.  If I spill on me, the clothes will be stripped off instantly.
> 
> I'm curious how they will interfere with the mask, though I'm sure there must be some that will work.  I'll look further into it.  I was thinking more that the shield would provide face and eye protection, but I thought maybe there were other considerations I wasn't thinking of.
> 
> ...




As a hospital nurse, we had plastic aprons that were very lightweight.  They were worn in certain situations in isolation rooms.  Those would work and not be too hot, but I don't know where to purchase; I retired 20 years ago.  The heavy duty ones worn by dishwashers in restaurants can be obtained at restaurant supply stores.

Here you go!  You can get several kinds from Restaurant supply stores, including the exact same style we used to wear when I was a hospital nurse:

Plastic aprons link.


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## plantiest (Jun 24, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Here are the other two safety equipment articles I've written:
> Choosing a respirator | Soapy Stuff
> Eye protection | Soapy Stuff
> 
> ...



There is a lot here to unpack!  

I don't buy at big box stores, because they are all scented now and contaminate the products.  I would have to buy online.  I use 3M masks literally daily and am a M or L in those.  I usually just have to buy online and do trial and error for fit.  Annoying, but it is my reality. 

I am freakishly reactive to fragrance, but that also means that I will never use FO or EO fragrances in my soaps.  Literally never, so that is not a consideration at all.  Those products aren't even allowed in my house. 

I've been adding my lye to frozen liquids to reduce the fumes substantially.  

I have the window open and use a fan.  I called 3M directly, and their recommendation for masks was the pink P100 filter.  I have a lot of these here already, so I used it.  I'll go back later today and read up more about respirators in your write-up.  

Thanks for the input!



earlene said:


> As a hospital nurse, we had plastic aprons that were very lightweight.  They were worn in certain situations in isolation rooms.  Those would work and not be too hot, but I don't know where to purchase; I retired 20 years ago.  The heavy duty ones worn by dishwashers in restaurants can be obtained at restaurant supply stores.
> 
> Here you go!  You can get several kinds from Restaurant supply stores, including the exact same style we used to wear when I was a hospital nurse:
> 
> Plastic aprons link.


I'll check...thanks!


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## MickeyRat (Jun 25, 2019)

After this experience, here's my 2 cents on safety gear.  Wearing long sleeves and long pants won't help you and they could delay you because you have to yank them off to rinse.  I think they are a bad idea now.  After what that stuff felt like on my legs, I never want to experience it in my eye.  So, I've ordered and received a really good pair of safety goggles as well as a rubberized apron.  If you're wearing short sleeves and shorts, the rubberized apron isn't uncomfortable and it reaches nearly to my ankles.  I had been using eye protection previously but, I wanted something better.

Gloves are a must as well.  I was using them when this happened.

As for cleaning up, cheap plastic table clothes from the dollar store lower the chances of getting splashed.  You can even dump gooey stuff on them to get rid of it.  Cut them in half to save a few cents. I've been using them for the last few batches.


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## earlene (Jun 25, 2019)

MickeyRat said:


> After this experience, here's my 2 cents on safety gear.  Wearing long sleeves and long pants won't help you and they could delay you because you have to yank them off to rinse.  I think they are a bad idea now.  After what that stuff felt like on my legs, I never want to experience it in my eye.  So, I've ordered and received a really good pair of safety goggles as well as a rubberized apron.  If you're wearing short sleeves and shorts, the rubberized apron isn't uncomfortable and it reaches nearly to my ankles.  I had been using eye protection previously but, I wanted something better.
> 
> Gloves are a must as well.  I was using them when this happened.
> 
> As for cleaning up, cheap plastic table clothes from the dollar store lower the chances of getting splashed.  You can even dump gooey stuff on them to get rid of it.  Cut them in half to save a few cents. I've been using them for the last few batches.




Thank you for sharing what you have learned from this experience, Mickey.

I agree with you about long sleeves and long pants.  It is far easier to run water over bare skin than it is to remove them.  I even wear zorries on my feet.  It's easier to put my foot in the sink than it is to untie shoes.  I know; I've done it.  And it's really easier to take an apron off than a long sleeved shirt, especially when raw soap is on either.  I know; I've done both.


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## Bladesmith (Nov 10, 2020)

A bit of a necropost but wasn’t sure it needed a new topic...

I had run out of lye from a soap making supplier and went to Lowe’s and grabbed this bottle. I noticed on the First Aid part on the back, it says to rinse with water* then* vinegar.

I thought that was interesting. I’ve read a lot on here about not using vinegar for lye burns. And, it does say, to rinse with water first. What is the reason for the vinegar afterwards and is that a good idea?

Tbh, it doesn’t bother me that much. I get a lot of burns in general and the lye ones I just rinse off when they start burning. I only wear glasses while soaping but as an HP’er, I’m not doing as much with the soap when the lye is still quite active. Just curious really.


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