# Shaving soap



## Lee242 (Nov 4, 2015)

How much clay should be added per lb ?
Is there a difference in the clay being used in it ?


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## cgsample (Nov 4, 2015)

In my research of shaving soaps, I find the majority of men don't want clay in it?


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## doriettefarm (Nov 4, 2015)

I agree and think most of the hard-core shave enthusiasts would tell you to ditch the clay.  Search for songwind's monster post on shave soap . . . it's a wealth of info and will steer you in the right direction.


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## Lee242 (Nov 4, 2015)

Why no clay?


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## doriettefarm (Nov 4, 2015)

Because it supposedly dulls your razor blades faster


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## Lee242 (Nov 4, 2015)

songwind's monster post on shave soap 
where is it, my search skills arn't very good?


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## Obsidian (Nov 4, 2015)

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=34264&


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## doriettefarm (Nov 4, 2015)

This should keep you busy for awhile ;-)
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=34264&highlight=shaving+soap


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## cgsample (Nov 4, 2015)

Songwind brought the discussion here that started over at:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...strated-Guide-to-a-Test-Batch-LONG-POST/page5

I re-read these two threads today, and I found a huge question!  The Soapcalc numbers on the page 5 I linked to, did not check the 90% box on the KOH.  Now I don't know if the KOH I have is considered 90%?

Are most KOH 90% or is 90% rare?


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## IrishLass (Nov 4, 2015)

Lee- while it's true that many wet-shavers shudder at the thought of 'dirt' (clay) lurking in their shave soap, several others actually like having it in there. For example, my fellow forum ModMin Lindy uses clay in her formula and she has a successful business selling her shave soap. It all really comes down to personal preference.......and/or the actual formula, as I will explain below. 

If you want to use clay in yours, the typical usage rate is 1 tsp. to 1 tbsp. ppo.

In my own recipe (before I re-formulated it to include lots of stearic), I use to use 2 tsp. kaolin clay ppo, and my hubby shaved quite happily with it for 6 years. 

Then I was challenged last year by some of our resident, self-described crazy wet-shaving dudes here on the forum to try leaving it out of my formula, and it didn't go over very well- hubby said the soap without the clay gave him the 'crappiest' shave he'd ever experienced with my soap.

But when I re-formulated my recipe to give a big boost to the stearic acid content, it actually made the clay unnecessary. 

So, my advice is to try your formula with clay and without clay, and then tweak from there.


IrishLass


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## IrishLass (Nov 4, 2015)

cgsample said:


> Songwind brought the discussion here that started over at:
> 
> http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...strated-Guide-to-a-Test-Batch-LONG-POST/page5
> 
> ...


 
From what I understand, most of the KOH out there is between 90% and 95% pure. The only way to be sure of the purity is to ask the company you bought it from.


IrishLass


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## songwind (Nov 5, 2015)

I think the bias a lot of wet shavers have against soaps with clay in them is that it's not uncommon for soapers to add clay to a bath bar and call it shaving soap. So I think a lot of people have come to associate clay in the formula with mediocrity-to-crappiness.

On the other hand, there are some excellent shave soaps, which are pretty popular, that contain clay.


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## cgsample (Nov 5, 2015)

*3" Pucks*

Just tried to cut down a 3" PVC pipe into six inch sections with a table saw who's blade does not extend 3".  Much harder than I expected to get a square cut!


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## luteplayers (Nov 5, 2015)

I cut pvc pipe on a a chop saw.  Cut down as far as you can then rotate the pipe while keeping the blade turning.  I guess you could do the same on the table saw.


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## BrewerGeorge (Nov 5, 2015)

luteplayers said:


> I cut pvc pipe on a a chop saw.  Cut down as far as you can then rotate the pipe while keeping the blade turning.  I guess you could do the same on the table saw.


This.  Rotate the pipe while the blade is still turning.   Make sure one side is up against a fence.


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## Lee242 (Nov 5, 2015)

Because it supposedly dulls your razor blades faster
Just keep your razor in mineral oil and it will last almost forever.
When did we go to cutting pipe?
Put the end of the pipe against something solid and rotate with the saw running. Good luck wit it.
I made some shave soap with clay great stuff. From what I have read it will give a smother and closer shave.


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## sonoransoapnmadness (Nov 5, 2015)

There's a long thread over at B&B on creating a recipe and most of the long time de shave fanatics were pro clay. Some interesting thoughts too on marketing shave brushes to women. Untapped market.... http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/198520-Home-made-shaving-soap


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## cgsample (Nov 6, 2015)

In making the 52% stearic acid hot process, do I stick blend after I pour in the lye?

I added more water than the recipe called for thinking it would be easier to glop into my PVC pipe.  When I stirred in the lye water, I got the soupy pudding I was expecting, but when I used the stick blender, it became thick frosting within 15 seconds.  I'm now cooking the frosting.

Was the stick blending a mistake for this process?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 6, 2015)

SA will go pretty much solid as soon as the lye hits it, whatever you do. It'll soften up as it cooks


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## cgsample (Nov 6, 2015)

If my un-molded "log" is 3" diameter, is there a guide as to how thick I make my cuts to get 4oz pucks?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 7, 2015)

Do one and then weigh it and cut the rest accordingly. 

Let's be honest, if you're using it yourself it is no big deal and anyone from your friends or relatives who get it for free certainly can't cry over a few grams difference


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## DeeAnna (Nov 7, 2015)

What The Gent said. The density of your soap will vary some and shave soap is prone to being a bit more variable than other soaps, so any math formula someone could trot out will not necessarily be accurate. The easiest and best way is to actually measure and weigh the soap and cut accordingly.


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## Lee242 (Nov 7, 2015)

Is there a difference in the types clay being used in shave soap ?
Or is clay just clay or just different colors ?


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## cgsample (Nov 7, 2015)

As the soap was cooling in the PVC pipe, I found a flat bottomed glass that was almost the same diameter.  Periodically I would plunge it down packing the soap as much as I could.  I finally put the PVC in the fridge for about two hours as was then able the really pound down the malleable soap as much as I could.

When I un-molded. the 3" diameter "log" was exactly 3" long so 1" pucks was the answer.  The three pucks weighted very closely to 4oz each.

I weighted them again this morning and each had lost 2 grams.  I did use extra water in the recipe so I'm sure there will be a lot of evaporation.

My thought process in all this is, when you buy commercial soaps, at what point in the cure did they sell it to you?  When you buy their 4oz puck, was it 4oz when it was cut, or 4oz after it cured?


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## DeeAnna (Nov 7, 2015)

No, clay is not just clay. There is montmorillonite clay (that's the stuff used in clumping kitty litter, by the way), kaolin, illite, and others. Study up on it -- a google search will fill you in on their different properties and uses.

As far as commercial soaps, the makers seldom cure their soap like handcrafted soap makers do. Instead, they flake, extrude, noodle, vacuum dry, "plod", mill, and pressure mold. You're wanting to compare apples and oranges. 

The net weight for a bar of soap, whether handcrafted or commercial, is supposed to be the minimum weight of the naked bar at the time of sale. If you aren't weighing it at the time of sale, then you need to anticipate the weight loss during cure and storage and label the net weight accordingly. My bars after cure generally weigh about 4.5 ounces each, but I know they continue to lose weight over time, so my labels say the net weight is 4 ounces.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 7, 2015)

If you're thinking of some of the artisans as 'commercial' then it is different. By all accounts, MdC has a good long cure. As for the others, you could ask. 

Test yours out to see when the changes are almost not to notice or the soap is already what you are looking for


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## cgsample (Nov 9, 2015)

Can we mention known artisan brand names we are trying to emulate?

That beings asked, I have found a highly ranked one that list these ingredients:

 "Coconut oil, Shea Butter, Stearic Acid, Water, Potassium Hydroxide, Glycerin"

I'm surprised that SA is not #1 or even #2?  What could the percentages possible be?

Another question, can the oils be added in stages?  Wanting some oils to be saponified 100%, then the next, etc.  i.e.  adding 100% of the lye and water to only SA, blending, adding CO, blending, then adding shea butter?  Hoping shea butter is the only superfatted oil remaining?


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## DeeAnna (Nov 9, 2015)

Since shea butter provides a goodly dose of stearic, it's not surprising to me that stearic acid is lower on the list in the example you provided. If you eliminate the use of a high-stearic butter, then, yes, stearic acid might need to be higher on the ingredients list. Honestly, this is something you can learn on your own, so I encourage you to try -- bring up your favorite soap calc and play around with the numbers and see what fatty acid profiles come up.

If you want shea to be the superfat, then yes you need to add it only after the saponification is done. I don't quite understand why you would want to saponify the stearic first and then saponify the coconut oil, but if that is what seems best for you to do, there's no reason why you can't do that.


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## gemsupthepoley (Nov 10, 2015)

Only going from the experience of the soap I made, but it's very pliable.  It would easilly pack into a hard walled mould like a bit pipe.  You could weigh out 4oz and push it into the mould.

I put mine into used shaving cream tubs and earthenware bowls and this method works a treat.  I dont grate it or anything.  Just push it into the bowl.


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