# Yet Another Newbie Question :)



## ilovesoap2 (Jan 26, 2014)

So, this idea of selling soap is very new to me.
I know I'll enjoy making the soaps, just the selling part that will be a
challenge.

My intended first batch was going to be for my friend who has problem skin, (facial), but then I thought, why not make enough so you can have folks try them and the feedback will let me know to proceed or not to proceed. 

Today I came upon a thread about the legalities, possibility of being sued if someone gets soap burn etc. Now I'm not sure how to proceed. The idea of getting insurance when I have not quite made up my mind to sell soap does not sound sensible. What do you guys think? anyone ever have folks sign a release before giving away your soap? TIA


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## Relle (Jan 26, 2014)

Those are not your only issues you need to be dealing with - have you read this before you start - I think you have the cart before the horse.
.http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=16002


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## ilovesoap2 (Jan 26, 2014)

Thanks Relle for the link and for moving the thread to it's correct place. My bad for not paying attention. 

Off to reading the suggested thread.


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## AnnaMarie (Jan 27, 2014)

Your enthusiasm and cautiousness are both good.  If you're going to make soap then you should love it, but first you should know you love it by waiting awhile.  Good soap making skills take a while to develop.  I think the hiccup for many who want to sell right away is the idea of spending $$ on experimenting.  I consider it money spent on education and invested accordingly before I began selling.  As far as the business side, that is one that needs time to develop as well.  I've been lightly selling soaps and lotion bars for about a year learning what I need to know through a business advisor and other good sources.  Insurance is a tough question.  Is it needed- yes.  However, many who are still in the new stages and selling a low risk product might choose to wait until they are definitely out of the red stage.  This is where I am at.  All in all, practice, practice, practice, and learn, learn, learn- then you will truly know if this is your passion 
Cheers!
Anna Marie


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## ilovesoap2 (Jan 27, 2014)

Actually, I read that entire thread yesterday and could not help but notice that many of the people who posted to it only had a few posts even though the thread is not new.  I can only imagine that most of them got discouraged and gave up the idea of selling soaps.

I grew up around soap making, had absolutely no interest in it, paid almost no attention and yes we gave away a lot of soaps, mostly to seniors in our church.  There were no soap calcs, no youtube, no forums such as this.  They used sticks for stirring and made their own lye.  You read correctly, made their own lye from ashes.  

So I've decided I do not need to practice making soap for a year.  No way.
A basic soap is 3 ingredients, fat, water and lye.  All I need to do is measure correctly, and use proper tools.  If someone would use rancid oils to make soap I think they would do same even after practicing for a year because all they're doing is being cheap.  I can only hope no one ever sells their soap before they're cured.  Also, no matter how long I practice soap making, it does not guarantee I will never have a batch that just decides to go sideways.


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## AnnaMarie (Jan 27, 2014)

Wow! That's awesome - making your own lye!  I've read about that, but haven't done it.  I'd love to try it someday. We just had potlucks at church   Yes, you are absolutely right that something can go wrong even with the most experienced soapers.  I suggested the time frame as a gauge for developing good recipes, getting a feel for fragrance oils (which can be very unpredictable), and seeing if you tire of soap making.   If you are just making plain soap with no fragrances or essential oils or fancy techniques then you are right- a year of practice is hardly necessary.  The advice was given with the best of intentions!  Happy soaping  
Cheers!
Anna Marie


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## ilovesoap2 (Jan 27, 2014)

No worries AnnMarie, that's how it was taken.
No, I have no intention of ever making my own lye.
Yes I'll be using color and fragrance eventually.


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## coffeetime (Jan 27, 2014)

From the point of view of liability, if you are ever sued due to a flaw in your product, you need to be able to show a history and recipe testing so you can defend yourself and your product. It's pretty hard to do that if you are selling at your second batch.


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## coffeetime (Jan 27, 2014)

Also, when I pull out bars that I made a year ago or more, it is really shocking what the difference in quality is with the soaps I make now. I am glad I was not selling those bars, as proud as I was of them, as they have not stood up well. One got DOS after 3-4 months due to using a high amount of grapeseed oil, the other used tallow and was soft and smelled oddly after a bit. Definitely not my best work.


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## AnnaMarie (Jan 27, 2014)

Coffee time, that's interesting on the history/recipe testing.  Could you elaborate on that a bit? I keep what I call a creative journal where I date, photograph, and enter my recipe to keep records.  Is this what you mean?  Would love to know!
 Cheers!
Anna Marie


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## coffeetime (Jan 27, 2014)

I also keep a bar from each batch so that if anyone comes back to me with an issue, I can check my batch control bar to see if it's having the same issue. Each batch is also issued a batch number for clear record keeping and a label with the batch number goes on the bars. 
I keep a print out of each recipe that corresponds with each batch so I can say exactly what went into each bar to the gram. I'm trying to show due diligence and professionalism. I take my soap-making pretty seriously, as I think all sellers/manufacturers should.


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## ilovesoap2 (Jan 27, 2014)

coffeetime thanks for chiming in.  Yes, please if you will explain the testing/history etc.  If that's needed then of course I have to fall in line.
Thanks again.


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## coffeetime (Jan 27, 2014)

Another thing I've learned is it takes time to know your product well. For example, I track the weight of my cut bars when they are first cut and then again after four weeks cure. This taught me what percentage water weight loss to expect so that I can be sure my bars are consistently over my minimum weight. It also taught me that my bars lose a lot more weight in the summer than winter, which I hadn't thought of. Which affects how my banding will fit over time. Here in Canada, we have to put a weight on our bar packaging and it has to be true over time. So I have to formulate my batch size to allow me to have bars well over my minimum weight by the time they are sale able. 

Doing this soap thing professionally is just as difficult as any other business. And you should want to do it well, IMO.


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## ilovesoap2 (Jan 27, 2014)

coffeetime said:


> Doing this soap thing professionally is just as difficult as any other business. And you should want to do it well, IMO.



Totally agree.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jan 28, 2014)

ilovesoap2 said:


> coffeetime thanks for chiming in. Yes, please if you will explain the testing/history etc. If that's needed then of course I have to fall in line.
> Thanks again.


 
It's not so much about what is required and falling in line in the US, as I understand it - as long as you are not making certain claims with your soaps, then you can sell with no extra hassle from The Man.  Business regs vary, though, so that is an area to consider.

But you admit that while you grew up around soap making, you did not pay any attention to the soap making process and so on.  Well, my father was a builder and I lived with him until I was 20.  There is no way I'd think that I could then build a wall even though it's just bricks and mortor, right? 

While soaps can be simple and things can still go wrong after many years, the experience of a year tells you more about what is likely to go wrong, what is best to be avoided but also, and maybe more importantly, what sorts of things you like in your products and what you don't like, what your target market will like or not like.  That's not even starting on the whole idea of how the soap is after 6 months or more and so on, which if you are planning on having stock laying around for a while, plus the fact that many people don't use soap instantly when they get it, starts to look like a pretty important consideration, don't you agree?

It's not to put the nix on it, far from it - but the idea of waiting a while is a very good one for a lot of reasons.  From what I've read so far, I don't think your reasons and reasoning for not waiting are really strong enough.


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## pamielynn (Jan 28, 2014)

Soapmaking sounds simple in theory - and it is: mix water, lye and fat. But making soap WELL takes practice. Handling issues in processing takes practice. I started soapmaking when I lived in NH and "natural" soap was the way to go - and my preference. But here in Texas, scents rule the day - scents that do NOT come from nature, so I had to make changes there if I wanted to sell anything. 

Learning safety takes time as well. Sure, you should know your basics when you start, but what do you do when the lye pitcher goes bum over teakettle - are you prepared? 

Do you know what your soap will look like in 6 months? It can be quite different than you expect.

Can you identify unexpected results? This forum is filled with questions like "what happened to my soap?"

And the most important question: do you LOVE making soap? It's all fun at first, when you are experimenting, but what about when you have to make 50 pounds of boring old lavender soap today?


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## shunt2011 (Jan 28, 2014)

I agree with the others that say it's more than just making the soap.  It's also about making a quality product that you will know how it is in 6 mos or a year.  Also finding the right recipe or recipes for your line.  Then of course there's packaging and labeling.  A year is is just a guideline.  If you know you have a quality product and have tested it with good results after say 6 months then go for it.  I didin't but that was my decision as I wanted to 1. Make sure I was in it for the long run. 2. Had a good quality product. 3. Had seen how my product would be in 3, 6 and 12 mos. 4. A good plan in place.  Also make sure you have your insurance, sales tax license and other requirements that vary from state to state and city to city.


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## pamielynn (Jan 28, 2014)

Ah, yes.. the Taxman. I try to block that out  My city and state come to 8.25% ACK! I came from NH where there is no sales tax. Quite a shock.


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## ilovesoap2 (Feb 1, 2014)

Thanks everyone for your input. I get it. I just felt like many people soap once a week or every 2 weeks but most definitely at least once per month. Soaping once a month for a full year, not selling any just sounded a lot to me. I'll make a few batches then wait and see.
Thanks again.


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## AnnaMarie (Feb 1, 2014)

If it makes you feel better I still have a good boxful of bars that "weren't up to par" that my family is working through (can't stand waste  ), and my mom has probably 100 bars of my "early years" soap as well. I did practice a lot, probably a couple times a week on average.  Like I said, consider it an investment in job training because you are developing a craft.  Best of luck to you!
Cheers!
Anna Marie


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## Lin (Feb 2, 2014)

You can always donate extra soap  There are charities that specifically collect soap to distribute around. You can also donate soap to local shelters. Homeless, domestic abuse, halfway houses, etc. Getting a bar of quality handmade soap would be a real treat.


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## ilovesoap2 (Feb 2, 2014)

AnnaMarie said:


> If it makes you feel better I still have a good boxful of bars that "weren't up to par" that my family is working through (can't stand waste  ), and my mom has probably 100 bars of my "early years" soap as well. I did practice a lot, probably a couple times a week on average.  Like I said, consider it an investment in job training because you are developing a craft.  Best of luck to you!
> Cheers!
> Anna Marie



100 bars?
wowza!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 3, 2014)

ilovesoap2 said:


> 100 bars?
> wowza!


 
That seems a lot, but it's only about 5 or 6 batches if you make 2lb (or 1kg!) batches.  Seems strange how quickly you can get up to a high number of bars just from trying out new things.


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## shunt2011 (Feb 3, 2014)

I gave away and donated probably 500+ bars of soap before I began selling it.  I had a good year under my belt and was making 1-2 or more batches a week.  I look back now at some of my first bars that I kept and it's funny how far I've come.    I started with 2 & 3 lb batches and now make 10-15 lbs at a time.  I use 5lb silicone molds and get 14 bars per mold.  When if first started I cut my soaps at 1 inch or so and finally decided on just under 1.25.


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## lenarenee (Feb 3, 2014)

I'm curious....when you say it's funny how far you've come; is that because of pinning down a better recipe? Or something about the soapmaking process technique?

In other words, it a person makes the same recipe once a week for a year, will there be a noticeable difference in the quality of the first soaps, compared to the final soaps? If so, then what makes the difference?

The reason I'm wondering is: I made a small alteration to a recipe given on this website, and used it after only one week and I love it already (I started making soap mostly because I often have allergy issues with commercial soaps and finally got tired of costly trial and error, and rashes!) 

Wondering if this recipe that I'm happy with already before it's cured, will be
even better after a year of making!


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## cmzaha (Feb 3, 2014)

coffeetime said:


> I also keep a bar from each batch so that if anyone comes back to me with an issue, I can check my batch control bar to see if it's having the same issue. Each batch is also issued a batch number for clear record keeping and a label with the batch number goes on the bars.
> I keep a print out of each recipe that corresponds with each batch so I can say exactly what went into each bar to the gram. I'm trying to show due diligence and professionalism. I take my soap-making pretty seriously, as I think all sellers/manufacturers should.


 
If you are doing all this you should also have each batch number connected to the suppliers batch # of the oils you used. I do not bar code at this point but list my oil batch numbers on my soap calc printouts which I have everyone I have made. The label on my soaps are dated as to the pour date, so all I have to do is go back and check what was used


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## coffeetime (Feb 3, 2014)

I use Soapmaker 3, so all my batches are already correlated with my oil purchases.


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## cmzaha (Feb 3, 2014)

shunt2011 said:


> I gave away and donated probably 500+ bars of soap before I began selling it. I had a good year under my belt and was making 1-2 or more batches a week. I look back now at some of my first bars that I kept and it's funny how far I've come. I started with 2 & 3 lb batches and now make 10-15 lbs at a time. I use 5lb silicone molds and get 14 bars per mold. When if first started I cut my soaps at 1 inch or so and finally decided on just under 1.25.


 
I use hdpe molds and cut at 1.25" which gives me between 5.3-5.7 oz bars and up to 8 oz salt bars. I also get 14 and 2 sample slices from my 5lb mold. Big difference from 5 yrs ago when I was hand cutting, but I can say I still use some of my original recipes and was selling soap 6 months after starting and still have some of the same customers. They now love the larger sizes!


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## AnnaMarie (Feb 3, 2014)

I think soap making is a lot like cooking- if you follow Martha Stewart's instructions can you serve a show stopper dish right away?  Absolutely.  Does that mean you are a good cook? No.  Being a good cook means knowing what you are doing on many levels.  Technique, skill, and creativity need to be developed to be a good cook, and this happens only with practice.  I notice that practice is really underrated for many in the domestic arts because our culture makes it look so easy, and that a person can be a pro right away without the patience and discipline of a committed professional.  My soaps now look FAR better then my first ones, and I can honestly say that it is because of a lot of invested time.  There's a reason grandma's such a good cook..... 
Cheers!
Anna Marie


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