# Avoidance issues



## artemis (Aug 25, 2017)

You may have figured out that I'm a little nosey. This is the question that entered my mind today:

Are there any topics that you just avoid?  Or topics that you want to avoid but can't help clicking on anyway?

I have seen a few posts lately that I almost clicked on, but at the last minute thought, "Nah. Too much potential for a train wreck here! Moving on!" Or I've clicked through and even started a response before deciding I didn't really want to be involved in THAT discussion again.

What about you?


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## Kittish (Aug 25, 2017)

I change my mind about posting replies to threads on a fairly frequent basis, here and other forums I'm a member of. Get halfway through typing it out and realize that what I'm typing isn't anything that will actually contribute to a discussion. Delete! Wish voice conversations were that easy to edit... "Blahblahblah..oh wait, you don't care about this. I don't care about this. Undo!"

Or, like here, come across _another_ newbie who seems to have jumped on the "How hard can it be to make and sell? It's SOAP!" train and I have to remind myself that a- I am a rank amateur myself. And b-I likely would get in trouble for being as blunt as I really want to be with that sort of new poster. 

Can't really think of any topics I deliberately avoid at least reading about. There are things I won't talk about, as well as a couple of subjects that just make me go all squicky and twitchy even when other people talk about them.


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## toxikon (Aug 25, 2017)

Kittish said:


> Get halfway through typing it out and realize that what I'm typing isn't anything that will actually contribute to a discussion. Delete!



Ditto! Sometimes I'll type up a multi-paragraph response then look at it and say "hmmmm... nah. I don't want to get involved". LOL.


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## Cellador (Aug 25, 2017)

I'm with you, Kittish. I often type replies and then delete once I realize all I'm doing is rambling. And, I also cringe every time I see a newcomer state that they've already sold every bar from their first batch. But, I certainly haven't been a member of the forum for long, so I never know if it's my place to speak-up on that topic. 

Otherwise, I avoid the typical conversations- religion, politics, etc.


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## 0115d8cf (Aug 25, 2017)

Ditto times three. So many deleted replies, and a lot of them directed at 'I'm new to soaping, what happened to the batch I just sold to a store?'. Ugh_hhh_.

I don't mind some forum fighting, but I try to play nice. Here, anyway.


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## Obsidian (Aug 25, 2017)

I too delete some replies but its usually because it wasn't helpful or even nice. If a person is in need of help but being argumentative or dismissive, I won't bother even trying to help.

The one subject I avoid like the plague is breast milk soaps, it just grosses me out to no end and I don't want to read about it or even think about.


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## dixiedragon (Aug 25, 2017)

I think that forums can be very good training for building skills in diplomacy. If I feel strongly about something, it is good practice for me to state my opinion clearly but also diplomatically. Generally speaking, of course - I'm sure there are times I haven't succeeded!

I have a very firm rule with myself about not being rude/ugly/nasty on Facebook. In my posts or in my responses. Arguing politics on Facebook is pointless.


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## 0115d8cf (Aug 25, 2017)

Obsidian said:


> I too delete some replies but its usually because it wasn't helpful or even nice. If a person is in need of help but being argumentative or dismissive, I won't bother even trying to help.
> 
> The one subject I avoid like the plague is breast milk soaps, it just grosses me out to no end and I don't want to read about it or even think about.


 ... Well, that was an interesting trip down the rabbit hole.


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## Dahila (Aug 25, 2017)

I stopped posting in topics about Bath bombs ..........for a sake of sanity, I had stopped


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## Kamahido (Aug 25, 2017)

The three most divisive topics...

1) Religion
2) Politics
3) What to have on your pizza


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## penelopejane (Aug 25, 2017)

Three most divisive topics:
1) newby selling soap
2) natural colourants
3) lard 

It's so obvious that I'm pretty sure we get trolls - first time posters who drop a bomb and sit back to watch us all fall over ourselves to jump in and comment. 

I don't comment on posts I suspect are from trolls. Other posts I comment once then leave it. Some people don't want to hear other points of view they just want reaffirmation.


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## Kittish (Aug 25, 2017)

penelopejane said:


> Some people don't want to hear other points of view they just want reaffirmation.



Oh my gosh yes! Except I think I'd say most rather than some. :-x


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## earlene (Aug 25, 2017)

Kamahido said:


> The three most divisive topics...
> 
> 1) Religion
> 2) Politics
> 3) What to have on your pizza



What to have on your pizza?

Luckily I never have a problem with my husband and what to order on our pizza.  Thankfully.  Sometimes he orders a meaty pizza and I get my own olives pizza.  Then we have enough leftovers for a couple of more meals, so that works well for us!

What do I avoid commenting on in regards to forums or other social media or even verbally (except when my husband and I are alone together and no one else can hear us)?  Religion, especially radically intolerant religious attitudes.  

Persecution or abuse of people I will not stay silent about, however. I prefer not to participate in discussions such as those, but when I see it happening, I cannot stand by and be silent, because I feel a moral & societal obligation to intervene.


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## Susie (Aug 25, 2017)

penelopejane said:


> Three most divisive topics:
> 1) newby selling soap
> 2) natural colourants
> 3) lard
> 4) ph measurement vs zap test



Fixed that for you.


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## DeeAnna (Aug 25, 2017)

One topic I should never post on is anything having to do with measuring the pH of soap, especially as an alternative to the zap test. I really shouldn't. I still get sucked in. Just got sucked in today, in fact. But I really shouldn't. <sigh>


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## Kittish (Aug 25, 2017)

Susie said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by penelopejane  View Post
> Three most divisive topics:
> 1) newby selling soap
> ...



Four! The four most divisive topics are!


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## SunRiseArts (Aug 26, 2017)

ha ha I am half Latin, half native indian.  Latin people talk a LOT, they actually all talk at the same time.  Most have no measure to say ( or type) what they are thinking ... and I am no exception!  :headbanging:

So yes,  I often put my foot in my mouth,  and in forums like this, I cannot go back and delete it when I regret it!  So I try to be more careful .....


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## IrishLass (Aug 26, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> One topic I should never post on is anything having to do with measuring the pH of soap, especially as an alternative to the zap test. I really shouldn't. I still get sucked in. Just got sucked in today, in fact. But I really shouldn't. <sigh>


 
For what its worth, I, for one am very appreciative that you let yourself get sucked in today. The info that you (and also psfred) shared on alkalinity was very informative and helpful. 


IrishLass


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## penelopejane (Aug 26, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> One topic I should never post on is anything having to do with measuring the pH of soap, especially as an alternative to the zap test. I really shouldn't. I still get sucked in. Just got sucked in today, in fact. But I really shouldn't. <sigh>



I agree with Irish Lass. 

In really think it is important that false assumptions are corrected.  I personally need these issues reiterated a couple of times before they really sink in. 

I also really like to hear the scientific explanation clearly expressed as you do it. 
It must be awfully frustrating for you, though.  Maybe just comment once a post (for your sanity) then leave those that don't want to learn to be left unenlightened. 

Watch those trolls, though!


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## DeeAnna (Aug 26, 2017)

Thanks, all. I appreciate the words of encouragement.

I'll definitely keep an eye out for them trolls, however.


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## artemis (Aug 31, 2017)

I just found another one I have to avoid: the idea that the pH of soap is safe for dogs. Related: detergents are all Harmful Chemicals, but handmade soap is All Natural, and therefore safe (and better) for everyone all the time.


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## Kamahido (Aug 31, 2017)

earlene said:


> What to have on your pizza?
> 
> Luckily I never have a problem with my husband and what to order on our pizza.  Thankfully.  Sometimes he orders a meaty pizza and I get my own olives pizza.  Then we have enough leftovers for a couple of more meals, so that works well for us!
> 
> ...



About 15 years ago I read about a man who murdered his wife. When the police were interviewing him he confessed that the argument that spiraled out of control was what to have on the pizza they were ordering.


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## artemis (Aug 31, 2017)

Kamahido said:


> About 15 years ago I read about a man who murdered his wife. When the police were interviewing him he confessed that the argument that spiraled out of control was what to have on the pizza they were ordering.


The local radio station reports "the Bizarre Files" fro. Across the country. A good percentage of those stories have to do with people going into a rage over food! Things like, who got the last piece of chicken!


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## penelopejane (Aug 31, 2017)

Kamahido said:


> About 15 years ago I read about a man who murdered his wife. When the police were interviewing him he confessed that the argument that spiraled out of control was what to have on the pizza they were ordering.



A few months ago a man killed his wife on a cruise with their children because he said she laughed at him!  So very sad. Apparently she was a lovely, nice, kind woman. He must have just snapped.


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## artemis (Nov 10, 2017)

...and here we are, back to watching train wrecks, deleting posts before sending, cringing and biting our tongues. Or, am I the only one?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 10, 2017)

Unfortunately, if people who know what they are talking about bite their tongues, then the loud crowd with no idea or messed up ideas are the ones who post which means that the information given out is bad at best.  My view - the forum is primarily a place about making soap, so if someone is upset when I call them out on something about that then, within reason, too bad.  This isn't a camp fire circle where we sing kumbaya.  I try to be as nice as I can about it, but my dry sense of humour and my lack of tolerance for fools makes that hard at times.  I do step away often, all being said, because the contra information is already there and I don't have time to waste anymore.


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## artemis (Nov 10, 2017)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Unfortunately, if people who know what they are talking about bite their tongues, then the loud crowd with no idea or messed up ideas are the ones who post which means that the information given out is bad at best.



Oh, I know that. This is just me-- I step into a post that I know is going to be like that when I'm personally better off not watching the back-and-forth. Worse- out of frustration, I start to compose posts that are just more of what's already been said. At that point, my post would be redundant.


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## Susie (Nov 10, 2017)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Unfortunately, if people who know what they are talking about bite their tongues, then the loud crowd with no idea or messed up ideas are the ones who post which means that the information given out is bad at best.  My view - the forum is primarily a place about making soap, so if someone is upset when I call them out on something about that then, within reason, too bad.  This isn't a camp fire circle where we sing kumbaya.  I try to be as nice as I can about it, but my dry sense of humour and my lack of tolerance for fools makes that hard at times.  I do step away often, all being said, because the contra information is already there and I don't have time to waste anymore.



I feel much the same way.  But I am going to have to stop responding to this particular individual directly.  Indeed, I have blocked him.  I will, however, be forced to put true information out there in response to the people who know no better that are interacting with him.  I don't know any other way to stop feeding this troll, yet put truth out for those poor newbies.  If the mod/mins can suggest anything, I am most willing to try them.


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## artemis (Nov 10, 2017)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> I do step away often, all being said, because the contra information is already there and I don't have time to waste anymore.



While revisiting the "trainwreck," I hit a limit this morning and wrote a response. I even hit the send button. A glitch prevented it from posting, but by that time, you and a couple others already responded with the very things I wanted to say.


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## Susie (Nov 10, 2017)

artemis said:


> While revisiting the "trainwreck," I hit a limit this morning and wrote a response. I even hit the send button. A glitch prevented it from posting, but by that time, you and a couple others already responded with the very things I wanted to say.



I am so glad it is not just me!


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## SudsanSoaps (Nov 10, 2017)

Could be I'm causing you issues and don't realize it. But if it's what I think it is, it's too confusing to be understood. Might just be me being dense though.


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## Susie (Nov 10, 2017)

SudsanSoaps said:


> Could be I'm causing you issues and don't realize it. But if it's what I think it is, it's too confusing to be understood. Might just be me being dense though.



You are not the problem.  I promise.  If you look at some of the newest threads, you will find it.


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## artemis (Nov 10, 2017)

SudsanSoaps said:


> But if it's what I think it is, it's too confusing to be understood. Might just be me being dense though.



It's an on going phenomenon. Someone thinks they've hit on some deep truth. They come here and talk as if all these experienced soapers are just not smart enough to have thought of these things before. I sit back and cringe while I watch the fallout. 

It's like being at an awkward family Thanksgiving dinner.


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## DeeAnna (Nov 10, 2017)

I might have to tie my hands to my chair and bite my tongue bloody, but I'm going to stick to my resolve to not fall down the rabbit hole any more.

No, Suds, it's not you. Definitely not!


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## artemis (Nov 10, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> I might have to tie my hands to my chair and bite my tongue bloody, but I'm going to stick to my resolve to not fall down the rabbit hole any more.
> 
> No, Suds, it's not you. Definitely not!



I have enough understanding to know if something IS wrong, but not enough to explain WHY it's wrong. So I wait patiently and watch for you to step in and explain.

But there are only so many times you can explain the same thing without getting frustrated.


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## dibbles (Nov 10, 2017)

What artemis said. It wasn't long ago that I was a complete newbie and had questions about EVERYTHING. I can't even imagine trying to sort through some of this and make sense of it as a new soaper. 

So, even if you don't want to go far enough into the rabbit hole to risk falling to the bottom, I hope you will at least continue to add your thoughts and share your knowledge when you see it is needed. All of you who provide the scientific information as well as those who can share from experience. I hope you know how valuable you are.


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## SaltedFig (Nov 10, 2017)

Suds, it is terrific that you checked, because we can all tell you it's not you! 

I hope there isn't too many others that feel how you did.


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## jenlwhi2 (Nov 10, 2017)

I would also like to say...if it's me im so sorry! I'm new here and I'm sure my ignorance is just shining through. But I'm certainly not trying to offend anyone or insult anyone. For goodness sake, you guys are brilliant!


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## SaltedFig (Nov 10, 2017)

Hi jenlwhi2, your recent gift bag thread has been most enjoyable ... please don't worry


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## DeeAnna (Nov 10, 2017)

You're fine, Jenlwhi2. Not to worry!

***

There are a few who don't understand by posting in SMF they are participating in a community of real people. A community stays healthy by respectful conversation, healthy debates, and mutual sharing. A community isn't about some people competing to win at the expense of others -- it's about the art of pleasant conversation, a dose healthy compromise, knowing when to "agree to disagree", the ability to stay open minded and not make assumptions about others, and a willingness to "give a little to get a little."

Some are not able to or choose not to learn this lesson in getting along with others. They bluntly express their theories or ideas in black and white terms. They show quick contempt for others' point of view. They are often argumentative, rude, or combative. They quickly take refuge in "I'm right because I said so!" defense or "If I yell loudly enough, I must be right!" tactic. They can make blunt demands (gimme a recipe NOW!) with no intention of sharing in return. 

The sad thing is that many of these people don't realize that lightening up, slowing down, and mellowing out would help them fit in and get their needs met in a less stressful way. (I also think a small few thrive on the discord and have no intention of fitting in.)

All of us are human and we all fall short of being perfect members of this or any community. (And, yes, I'm musing on my own failures as I write this!) Most of us, however, fall short only on occasion, and others are habitual offenders.


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## jewels621 (Nov 10, 2017)

I, too, have been biting my tongue, not wanting to be goaded into lowering myself to even reply. Thank the good Lord for all of the intelligent "respect-has-to-be-earned" members of this forum. I learn so much from you each day....and I will continue to ignore the one that is obviously creating a negative stir. Much love to my favorite soapers!


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## artemis (Nov 10, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> ... and not make assumptions about others, ...
> They show quick contempt for others' point of view.



The way that something is said is important. Stepping in and saying, "Hey, did anybody else notice this" or "here's another way of calculating," that could have lead to worthwhile conversation. Instead, it was more like, "hey! I'm the only person who figured this out and you're too dumb to get it!" 

That's a good reminder to me, though, to not enter a situation acting like I'm the Queen Bee. (I usually do-- one of my internet handles is Bossy Mrs B!)


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## DeeAnna (Nov 10, 2017)

I agree with you, Artemis. I've gotten into hot water a few times online and in real life because the other person thought I was being stuck up, arrogant, or something along those lines. It's usually someone who doesn't know me well, so my nerdy quietness leads the person to draw the wrong conclusions about me. 

It's especially tough online because people can't see me and get to know me, so I've learned (but obviously don't always succeed) to write as if I'm a more extroverted and less egg headed person than I  am. My words come across better if I do that. But it can be a challenge at times to strike the right tone.

And to further complicate things, a person's annoyed or prickly reaction sometimes seems to be more about that person's own issues, and not really so much about me and what I am saying. It can be hard to sort that out.


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## Kittish (Nov 10, 2017)

So glad I'm not the only one. I've been mostly just keeping my mouth shut because I'm still such a newbie. You can block people here? I may have to check that out. Reminds me of one person who showed up shortly after I joined that simply would NOT be told anything they didn't want to hear (I know, that narrows it down so much, right?).

ETA: Yes! It is possible to block someone. Takes a bit of finding, but it's there. Getting kind of entertaining actually, reading responses without wading thru the... other posts.


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## artemis (Nov 10, 2017)

Kittish said:


> ...one person who showed up shortly after I joined that simply would NOT be told anything they didn't want to hear (I know, that narrows it down so much, right?).



[emoji3] [emoji1] [emoji28]  yes... We seem to go through cycles of a bunch of ordinary new members followed by more high octane members. If they don't mellow out right away they either storm out or just disappear.


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## artemis (Nov 10, 2017)

Look! I saw the trainwreck and this time I walked away! Ok, ok. So I posted something earlier, but just now-- I walked away.


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## DeeAnna (Nov 10, 2017)

I'm having a hard time tonight -- I have come very, very close in the last hour to breaking my promise to myself.

So ... I'm going to have to stop reading SMF for the evening. After I post this I will be turning my computer off, getting myself a big glass of good wine, and diving into the mystery novel I've been reading. I've been working my way through a bottle of Chilean Cabernet that someone left after a party, and it's quite good. 

And maybe I will need to take Susie's advice tomorrow and learn how to block a person if this situation seems like it's going to continue much longer.

Good night, all......


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## SaltedFig (Nov 10, 2017)

I'm away too ... off to do some work in the garden I think.

Enjoy your book and the Chilean ...


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## annalee2003 (Nov 10, 2017)

jenlwhi2 said:


> I would also like to say...if it's me im so sorry! I'm new here and I'm sure my ignorance is just shining through. But I'm certainly not trying to offend anyone or insult anyone. For goodness sake, you guys are brilliant!





I’m going to jump on the apology wagon as well. 
I know I posted something in a thread recently that I probably shouldn’t have. I don’t post much. I like to sit back and read what others have said.
I admit that I got a bit caught up in all the hoopla though. I almost didn’t post anything, but for some reason I did. So for that quick snap judgement,  I apologize.


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## jewels621 (Nov 10, 2017)

I, too, am shutting this off for the night and learning to block people tomorrow...I am writing this from the relaxing Caribbean and refuse to even read this persons posts anymore.

Before I sign off for the night, I just want to say how tremendously invaluable "this Deeanna person" is to me. Now I'm done.


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## SoapAddict415 (Nov 10, 2017)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Unfortunately, if people who know what they are talking about bite their tongues, then the loud crowd with no idea or messed up ideas are the ones who post which means that the information given out is bad at best.  My view - the forum is primarily a place about making soap, so if someone is upset when I call them out on something about that then, within reason, too bad.
> 
> I appreciate it when someone who's more knowledgeable or experienced speaks up to dispel bad info. I love learning new things & I enjoy the scientific explanations that are sometimes given here so by all means, keep posting & correcting! Unfortunately there's so much bad info out there. For years I was under the assumption that hp soaps didn't require as long of a cure time as cp. I just recently found out that they do. I don't sell but I don't want to give away anything that's not going to be my best. Getting the right information ensures that I'm always giving my best.


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## Susie (Nov 10, 2017)

annalee2003 said:


> I’m going to jump on the apology wagon as well.
> I know I posted something in a thread recently that I probably shouldn’t have. I don’t post much. I like to sit back and read what others have said.
> I admit that I got a bit caught up in all the hoopla though. I almost didn’t post anything, but for some reason I did. So for that quick snap judgement,  I apologize.



It isn't you.  I promise.  Matter of fact, if anyone feels the need to apologize, it isn't you either.


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## Millie (Nov 11, 2017)

Personalities will come out!
Sorry 



.....*phew*


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## jewels621 (Nov 11, 2017)

Thought we all could take a little break and breathe this in for a moment.....


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## artemis (Nov 11, 2017)

That doesn't look like Minnesota...



Kittish said:


> ETA: Yes! It is possible to block someone. Takes a bit of finding, but it's there. Getting kind of entertaining actually, reading responses without wading thru the... other posts.



Well, that's a good thing to know. I suppose it makes the entire thread a little difficult to follow. Or, makes everyone else look like the crazy guy who walks around arguing with an invisible friend. [emoji1]


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## SunRiseArts (Nov 11, 2017)

lol Artemis.  

Jewels were is that?  I want to go there....


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## bathgeek (Nov 16, 2017)

SoapAddict415 said:


> The Efficacious Gentleman said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunately, if people who know what they are talking about bite their tongues, then the loud crowd with no idea or messed up ideas are the ones who post which means that the information given out is bad at best.
> ...


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## IrishLass (Nov 17, 2017)

I didn't see the more 'focused' turn this thread had taken until just now. 



The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Unfortunately, if people who know what they are talking about bite their tongues, then the loud crowd with no idea or messed up ideas are the ones who post which means that the information given out is bad at best.


 
Ditto that 100%. If y'all don't know by now, the thread in question has been locked to further comments thank to our Relle, but I don't so much look at it as a train wreck as I do a thread filled with a lot of pretty awesome, detailed info, contributed and most wonderfully explained in so many different ways by several of the more knowledgeable among us, so that any newbie stumbling upon it ......or perhaps someone re-visiting it..... will have the best of chances to "get it" .......or hopefully "_finally_ get it".  When I was a newbie- those were the kind of threads I always seemed to learn the most from.

It also stands as a positive testament to the wonderful and giving and patient (yes patient- because it takes a lot of patience to show so much tongue-biting and hand-sitting restraint) group of folks we have here that so generously take precious time out of their days in the hopes of helping someone to 'get it' in order that they can be the best possible soapmakers they can be, or that truthful, expertly explained soapmaking info is put forth to dispel the myths. Y'all are pretty awesome. 


IrishLass


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## jewels621 (Nov 17, 2017)

SunRiseArts said:


> lol Artemis.
> 
> Jewels were is that?  I want to go there....



Just got home late last night.....we were in Playacar, Mexico. The hubby and I snuck away before the holidays fully hit. It is beautiful there...we try to go a couple of times a year. This is the first time we've been there in the 20-some years we've been going, that it full-on rained cats and dogs for the first 5 days that we were there. It was still good to be there, but I couldn't help but think that I could have been home making more challenge soap! I won't have time now as Thanksgiving is at my house this year, plus 20ish people the next day for our community lighting festival to kick off the Christmas season. Why do I do this to myself? Fear not....I have at least one vacation a month planned until spring. Right now, it's just very good to be home and just so this ties in to the thread....I think avoiding winter is one of my issues. :snowman:


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## toxikon (Nov 17, 2017)

jewels621 said:


> Just got home late last night.....we were in Playacar, Mexico. The hubby and I snuck away before the holidays fully hit. It is beautiful there...we try to go a couple of times a year. This is the first time we've been there in the 20-some years we've been going, that it full-on rained cats and dogs for the first 5 days that we were there. It was still good to be there, but I couldn't help but think that I could have been home making more challenge soap! I won't have time now as Thanksgiving is at my house this year, plus 20ish people the next day for our community lighting festival to kick off the Christmas season. Why do I do this to myself? Fear not....I have at least one vacation a month planned until spring. Right now, it's just very good to be home and just so this ties in to the thread....I think avoiding winter is one of my issues. :snowman:



Ah very nice! I love Mexico. My fiance and I spent a week in Tulum a few years ago. I've been a few times with my parents as well. We're actually getting married on Isla Mujeres this May. I am beyond excited!


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## graylady (Nov 17, 2017)

I don't say much on this forum, but I do want to say that I think it is an amazing place to learn from people who are passionate about soap. When I joined I thought "Oh yes, I could start selling soon." Well, I haven't started selling. I've learned to keep good notes, tweak recipes, keep samples for ages and try them again, how to design labels, and a whole lot of other stuff about colour, scents, effects, etc, etc. I've also learned a whole lot of things to avoid, because other people have made and posted their mistakes. Maybe, in another year or so, I might be ready to start selling. Or not. Selling isn't actually the issue now - it's the experimenting.
Thank you, forum members for your wisdom, your patience with answering people's questions (I don't need to ask many becasue I can usually find an answer somewhere), and for your generosity. This is my go-to soap place.


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## Susie (Nov 17, 2017)

toxikon said:


> Ah very nice! I love Mexico. My fiance and I spent a week in Tulum a few years ago. I've been a few times with my parents as well. We're actually getting married on Isla Mujeres this May. I am beyond excited!



Congratulations!

About the threads in question.  I had to bow out early to preserve my sanity.  I worried, though, about the newbies.  Thank you to everyone who hung in there and put truthful, wonderful, helpful information through the whole process!


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## SunRiseArts (Nov 17, 2017)

jewels621 said:


> Just got home late last night.....we were in Playacar, Mexico. The hubby and I snuck away before the holidays fully hit. It is beautiful there...we try to go a couple of times a year. This is the first time we've been there in the 20-some years we've been going, that it full-on rained cats and dogs for the first 5 days that we were there. It was still good to be there, but I couldn't help but think that I could have been home making more challenge soap! I won't have time now as Thanksgiving is at my house this year, plus 20ish people the next day for our community lighting festival to kick off the Christmas season. Why do I do this to myself? Fear not....I have at least one vacation a month planned until spring. Right now, it's just very good to be home and just so this ties in to the thread....I think avoiding winter is one of my issues. :snowman:


 ohhhh  That is awesome!  I am so happy for you. We went to Cancun a couple of years back to an all inclusive and had to drag my little one who was 16 at the time.

Shame on me, I have not taught him Spanish, but the day we got there he asked if he could go to the pool by himself ( we are very protective of him), and I say yes, and when I go look for him later, he is in the pool with his huge foot in the air doing aerobics with a bunch of people.  

He had a blast.  I hope we can go back on day, and take him snorkeling.:shark:


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## Rusti (Nov 18, 2017)

Susie said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> About the threads in question.  I had to bow out early to preserve my sanity.  I worried, though, about the newbies.  Thank you to everyone who hung in there and put truthful, wonderful, helpful information through the whole process!



Frankly I'm surprised and impressed by the folks that had the patience to read the 'confused' posts! I just stuck to reading the replies because I couldn't handle trying to make sense of what everyone was applying too. Kudos to the lot of y'all for wading through it in order to even be able to reply.


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## penelopejane (Nov 18, 2017)

I think I am turning into a grumpy old (before my time) woman. 
I find it so annoying when someone asks a question, totally ignores your answer (which would solve their problem) and goes on to say they still have the problem! 

Certain people (luckily there are only a few and I'm not talking about THE thread here) just don't want to learn. 
I have to tell myself to step away from the computer and let them drown in their own soapy mistakes.


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## Millie (Nov 18, 2017)

I was starting to worry that with the repetition, I would start to remember some of the nonsense as fact. Wading through someone's brain for too long takes its toll.


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## Kittish (Nov 18, 2017)

Millie said:


> I was starting to worry that with the repetition, I would start to remember some of the nonsense as fact. Wading through someone's brain for too long takes its toll.



This is exactly how some things get spread around. Repeat inaccurate information often enough, loudly enough, and otherwise sensible people will start to believe it, even if there's a mountain of actual evidence otherwise.


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## SunRiseArts (Nov 19, 2017)

penelopejane said:


> I think I am turning into a grumpy old (before my time) woman.
> I find it so annoying when someone asks a question, totally ignores your answer (which would solve their problem) and goes on to say they still have the problem!
> 
> Certain people (luckily there are only a few and I'm not talking about THE thread here) just don't want to learn.
> I have to tell myself to step away from the computer and let them drown in their own soapy mistakes.


 
 ha ha If you would live in north Dallas,  you would pull your head out.  Unless I really have to, I try not to go out.  And now during the holidays is like a jungle out there, people driving crazy, and being rude.

I am so happy I only have 6 more months here.


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