# Olive Oil vs Extra Virgin OO



## Vonna (Jul 21, 2009)

Pro's....Con's?  Opinions....suggestions?  What does everyone prefer or think about the two?


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## reallyrita (Jul 21, 2009)

*Olive Oil versus Extra Virgin OO*

1.  cost    Extra virgin is much more expensive than light or extra light and it
               adds nothing extra to the soap

2.  odor  Extra Virgin has a stronger smell than the light and could come 
              through in some recipes, especially unscented ones.

3.  color   Light OO and extra light OO contribute to making a whiter soap.
               If you color your soap this is also important because the deeper
                tones of the extra virgin will affect  your colorant...especially if 
               the oil has a green tinge to it.


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## Rosey (Jul 21, 2009)

I also was wondering! Thank you for posting this!


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## gekko62 (Jul 21, 2009)

ditto on the price...I can get pomace for 1/2 the cost of evoo, regular for approx 2/3. If I want green tinged soap I go the pomace,& for everything else the reg(or lite if I can find it on sale)
Hey Vonna,don't know exactly where you are,but I get reg. 100% OO from aldi 4L/$22...& pomace from a wholesale deli in West End 4L for $17


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## Rosey (Jul 21, 2009)

so you just use pomace instead of OO in a recipe? I've seen where people say they use it but I have no idea what it is


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## artisan soaps (Jul 21, 2009)

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## Rosey (Jul 21, 2009)

can you find pomace in the stores or do you order it online?

And that's very helpful!


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## artisan soaps (Jul 21, 2009)

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## Rosey (Jul 21, 2009)

I'll look and see what I find here and look more closely at the oils in the store. I haven't really looked into the difference between the different OO's.


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## zajanatural (Jul 21, 2009)

I have never used EVOO in cp soap, always the Pure Olive oil that I get from my local Costco.


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## artisan soaps (Jul 21, 2009)

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## madpiano (Jul 21, 2009)

Pomace, definitley. 

Much cheaper than VOO. But check the label, a lot of Pomace is mixed with soy or cottonseed oil. (KTC in the UK)

Not sure if I would use it for cooking. I ran out of OO for a tomatoe salad tonight and used Rice Bran instead. Pomace just doesn't appeal to me in food.


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## gekko62 (Jul 21, 2009)

artisan soaps said:
			
		

> [quote="artisan soaps":24u4j1zf]I actually find in my Castiles that Pomace OO gives a very white bar, and my 2nd pressing OO gives a yellowy green bar .. I use both according to what colour results I'm after ..



I just took another look at my La Primavera (Prima Qualita) Pomace OO Can and the ingredients list: Refined Pomace Olive Oil, Extra Virgin Olive Oil

That's obviously why I'm getting stark white bars with it .. And it's still the cheapest so works for me [/quote:24u4j1zf]

A lot of 'regular' OO is a blend of evoo & processed.So long as it's all olive,no probs  

Roseyomace can speed trace(well,it's faster than other OO).It is obtained by solvent extraction from the last of the olives,plus seeds,so has a higher rate of unsaps,hence,less trace time.Great stuff  :wink: 
  Also,apparently in the states there was some pomace being sold that had other oil blended in,so make sure to label check,& buy from a trusted source,or a meditteranean grocer

Madpiano:my local expert(the greek grocer! lol) says nonono donta use pomace for cookin,its a salad oil. And a soap oil,I tell him!


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## Vonna (Jul 21, 2009)

Well I just did a shop at my local woolies because they have 4 litres of EVOO, ELOO, and OO for only $27.00!!!!!!  I bought 2   It's 100% pure with no additive so I know it's good!!  I LOVE BARGAINS!!!  Gekko, might want to check your local woolies.   :wink: btw I'm near Rocky.  I used to live at Maleny though so next time I'm down for a visit....I might have to make a run to Brissy


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## gekko62 (Jul 22, 2009)

Vonna said:
			
		

> Well I just did a shop at my local woolies because they have 4 litres of EVOO, ELOO, and OO for only $27.00!!!!!!  I bought 2   It's 100% pure with no additive so I know it's good!!  I LOVE BARGAINS!!!  Gekko, might want to check your local woolies.   :wink: btw I'm near Rocky.  I used to live at Maleny though so next time I'm down for a visit....I might have to make a run to Brissy



gee,thats a good price ....ok,Im off to woolies  scored ELOO at coles last week 4L/$26 only grabbed one,then didn't get back


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## NATURE BOY (Jul 23, 2009)

*Re: Olive Oil versus Extra Virgin OO*



			
				reallyrita said:
			
		

> 1.  cost    Extra virgin is much more expensive than light or extra light and it
> adds nothing extra to the soap
> 
> 
> Extra v.o.o. is particurarly rich in antioxidants like "squalene". Squalene is the main of the UNSAPONIFIED ingredients of olive oil and the most precious. So it's desireable to apply olive oil on our skin or to wash our body with an extra v.o.o. soap. Many contemporary studies prove the anti-aging and even anti-cancer qualities of squalene. Google it.


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## artisan soaps (Jul 23, 2009)

*Re: Olive Oil versus Extra Virgin OO*

..


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## NATURE BOY (Jul 23, 2009)

In my experience an 100% e.v.o.o. soap without any additives is always white. So, if you see in the market an 100% olive oil soap with other color, something happens...


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## NATURE BOY (Jul 23, 2009)

Just one reference about squalene:
http://www.eat-online.net/english/educa ... nefits.htm


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## artisan soaps (Jul 23, 2009)

..


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## Nehlena (Feb 20, 2015)

May I ask a question...?

From reading Extra virgin olive oil and virgin olive oil gives a white bar..., right?

Why I have seen the ingredients used in various soap sellers that write eg. virgin olive oil BUT the soap is green? :shock::roll:


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## Susie (Feb 20, 2015)

Soaps made with high percentages of EVOO and virgin OO are going to have a greenish tint.  IF the oils are green, the soap will be greenish.  Any pure white bars made with high amounts of those oils almost certainly have TD(titanium dioxide) added to give that whiteness.


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## Nehlena (Feb 20, 2015)

Susie said:


> Soaps made with high percentages of EVOO and virgin OO are going to have a greenish tint.



What might be a high percentage? A 63% EVOO is it considered high? I have made a soap with this amount of EVOO and is creamy white...

I am inserting a link that I have found that shows a chamomile olive soap using solely EVOO and is white, ok cream but not green... 

I have no idea whos the site is and I used it only to show that I have seen also other EVOO that give this creamy white color... 

http://www.olivesandtrees.com/#!beauty--health/c5u4

On the other hand pls check the following site, again I have no idea whos is, and tells that pomace gives a green soap... 

http://www.zoya.bg/en/Natural-Olive-Pomace-Oil-Soap-Green-–-100-g.5389

:shock:


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## Cactuslily (Feb 20, 2015)

I'm just throwing this out there. I use high olive oil content, though not 60%. However, I've noticed that different batches of olive oil in the bottle, same brand, can look vastly different in color. So, I tend to buy the lightest, and I keep TD to a minimum. If I get too high an OO content in my bars, I notice a bit of a slimy feeling for lack of a better word. How do you avoid that?


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## Dorymae (Feb 20, 2015)

I always was told 72% or better was high.  The Marseille, Castile, and Bastile soaps. Sorry if my spelling is off, it's early here.


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## Susie (Feb 20, 2015)

Susie said:


> *IF the oils are green, the soap will be greenish.*  Any pure white bars made with high amounts of those oils almost certainly have TD(titanium dioxide) added to give that whiteness.



I think quoting myself is rude, so please forgive me.  I did qualify that statement with IF.  I have found EVOO ranging from just yellow to forest green.  The color of the oil used in high percentages will affect the color of the soap UNLESS you do something to change that. 

I don't make high OO soaps.  I did not like a 50% OO soap I bought.  Just did not care for that feel.  I have, however, had a dark green EVOO change the color of my normally cream colored soap at as low as 30%.  

Judge for yourself by trying different OOs.  You will soon see.


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## Nehlena (Feb 20, 2015)

Susie said:


> I think quoting myself is rude, so please forgive me.  I did qualify that statement with IF.



Ok, I understood... an EVOO that is veeeery green is actually a fresh oil... Fresh squeezed oils, have this color and are more expensive... over time, not much of course, EVOO mellows and turns a green that gives a creamy white...


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## hud (Feb 20, 2015)

NATURE BOY said:


> In my experience an 100% e.v.o.o. soap without any additives is always white. So, if you see in the market an 100% olive oil soap with other color, something happens...



Me, too. My 100%  evoo baby style soap I make is mostly very light cream like white but my pure pomace oo is  whiter.
I don't use any TD at all to make it white. My EVOO is very dark green.


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## hud (Feb 20, 2015)

Nehlena said:


> Ok, I understood... an EVOO that is veeeery green is actually a fresh oil... Fresh squeezed oils, have this color and are more expensive... over time, not much of course, EVOO mellows and turns a green that gives a creamy white...



Actually whether I CP it or HP 100 % EVOO it turns white it's not green.


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## hud (Feb 21, 2015)

NATURE BOY said:


> reallyrita said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## SoapBro (Feb 21, 2015)

I soap exclusively with extra virgin olive oil, not by choice, its just the only thing i can get my hands on, no one sells anything else here, so let me tell you, extra virgin olive oil soap ALWAYS has a green tint to it, its never ever white or creamy.

i've used a bunch of brands and all of them made a soap with a green tint except one that turned out white, the oil was expired and from a really shady dealer so i'm pretty sure it wasn't even extra virgin.


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## Dahila (Feb 21, 2015)

I do not want to rain on your parade , but wrapping children in plastic foil which is made from mineral oil, and is carcinogenic,  it is not really smart choice.......... EVOO is just an olive oil and mostly it is mixed with sunflower oil.  4o years ago they used goat fat and badger fat for it.  It did not do harm that's for sure.  I have asthma and as a child I was exposed to this methods and it was nightmare ......
Pomace OO has a greenish tint


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## hud (Feb 22, 2015)

Dahila said:


> I do not want to rain on your parade , but wrapping children in plastic foil which is made from mineral oil, and is carcinogenic,  it is not really smart choice.......... EVOO is just an olive oil and mostly it is mixed with sunflower oil.  4o years ago they used goat fat and badger fat for it.  It did not do harm that's for sure.  I have asthma and as a child I was exposed to this methods and it was nightmare ......
> Pomace OO has a greenish tint



I don't know where did you read about wrapping children with plastic foil? What I said is that [FONT=&quot] I add one layer of very soft thin plastic like clear wrapping plastic[/FONT][FONT=&quot] over a [/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]soft gauze pad with double thick layers for extra cushioning  so the oil will not get on their clothes. The plastic goes between the thick gauze and the clothes, I do that when they are very congested. It takes few minutes for them to breathe very well and go in deep sleep.

As for the EVOO if you didn't get the original one that is not mixed with anything it doesn't mean that it's not existed. I had the pleasure to be around different countries where the farmers will cold press their crops of fresh olives right in front  the customer who is waiting. It tastes, smells and feels great.
Also, there are dozens of varieties of olives[/FONT][/FONT] that contribute to the quality of EVOO. It varies from country to another, the soil and water also make difference.
I treated my Azma  and my children's Azma with EVOO, we didn't need to use any type of medication any more. Maybe it's not easy to do that, I was determined to help myself and my children, it did take me time and effort like taking shower twice a day and keep washing plenty of clothes with bedsheets everyday because I am sensitive to any smell on clothes or the bedsheets due to any treatment. The results were clearly noticeable that what helped me to go on. I wanted to remove extra chemicals from my children's bodies because they started experiencing different side effect that made me unhappy. 
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]
The pomace OO that I order from different places here doesn't give me any green tint. It's interesting though to hear from different soap makers from different places in the world about their own experiences with EVOO and pomace OO.

 I am in touch with physicians who use natural healing methods with adults and children. I enjoy and love the natural healing methods but some people might have different point of view. It's OK with me.
[/FONT][/FONT]


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## SoapBro (Feb 22, 2015)

Dahila said:


> EVOO is just an olive oil and mostly it is mixed with sunflower oil.



absolutely ridiculous, EVOO is most definitely not olive+sunflower oil, and its also not just regular olive oil, it is the oil produced from First Cold pressing of the olives.

regular olive oil is made by pressing the already pressed olives several times until nothing can be extracted anymore, most of the time regular olive oil is not cold pressed, the oil is heated and processed (what results in a white bar of soap).

pomace is even worse and is not really fit for consumption, they press/cook all of the leftovers from the previous presses, leaves, branches, skins, already pressed olive flesh and seeds.
what they end up with a an olive oil that is not very pure at all, contains a whole lot of free fatty acids and might contain contaminants since its not intended for consumption and therefor is not regulated.


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## Susie (Feb 22, 2015)

hud, I don't know if you live in the US or not, but if that is what you do to your children when they are ill, and you live in the US, Child Protective Services would take a really dim view of that "medical treatment" for your children.


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## hud (Feb 22, 2015)

SoapBro said:


> regular olive oil is made by pressing the already pressed olives several times until nothing can be extracted anymore, most of the time regular olive oil is not cold pressed, the oil is heated and processed (what results in a white bar of soap).
> 
> .



SoapBro, do you mean by regular olive oil is the yellow or light yellow color oil that usually labeled as Olive Olive only?
Why some times the same quality comes with dark color? I used EVOO all my life, and when I started making soap my soap makers friends referred me to pomace oo, but I am not familiar with the quality in between.
Thank you in advance.


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## hud (Feb 22, 2015)

Susie said:


> hud, I don't know if you live in the US or not, but if that is what you do to your children when they are ill, and you live in the US, Child Protective Services would take a really dim view of that "medical treatment" for your children.



Susie, wherever I am living I am not violating any rules or regulation. Thank you for caring.
I didn't mention the term "medical treatment" where did you get it from?


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## Dahila (Feb 22, 2015)

Soapbro what planet are you living on?  Have you not read about adding sunflower oil to EVOO to make the quantity.  Italy and Spain a huge OO producers started to do it for some time.  Anyway I stopped believing in EXTRA and Organic a long time ago.  Where is money the faking exist . 

hud your practice is more like from 14 century and it would not approved in Europe either.  The rules about safety of children are kind of the same Europe or Us or Canada.


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## Susie (Feb 22, 2015)

Hud- 

"For the little ones when they are very congested I warm it up slightly then spread it over soft gauze pad with double thick layers for extra cushioning that locks it in over the chest, then I add one layer of very soft thin plastic like clear wrapping plastic to prevent it from spotting on their clothes. On their feet I rub the warm EVOO with Vicks, I may add very little amount of ground cloves to the oil. It also helps. At the end I have to put socks on their feet. To get the maximum benefit of the EV olive oil it needs to be messaged for 15-20 minutes until the skin absorbs it very well and it doesn't give any greasy feeling. After this application 90 % of the symptoms will disappear. I have some friends from other countries use EVOO for soothing the baby's tummy and for diaper rashes. Their babies do not suffer any rashes problem with EVOO. 
I used EVOO when my children and I had Azma, gradually the symptoms started to fade away. Finally we stopped all the medications because there was no need to use it.

I treated my Azma and my children's Azma with EVOO, we didn't need to use any type of medication any more."

No matter how you choose to look at it, you are saying your treat their illnesses with EVOO.  That is you "medicating" them.


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## Dahila (Feb 22, 2015)

When someone says it I have a hard time to believe it, even I am old woman, senior to be exact.  I thought that "healing" like that does not happen anymore.  Oh boy I am wrong
"Using hemp oil, kills 95% of cancer cells, using Coconut oil heals cavities, putting crystal on your forehead opens third eye" oh fairy tales, what is very sad; in this age with such easy access to information people still believe it.  I use Coconut oil for cooking for over 5 years due it high smoke point and I had not lose miraculously my beautiful belly fat......... :roll:


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## mx5inpenn (Feb 22, 2015)

Susie said:


> No matter how you choose to look at it, you are saying your treat their illnesses with EVOO.  That is you "medicating" them.



I would say that is a treatment, not medicating. Tylenol (which is probably far more dangerous) *is* medicating. Is it wrong to give a dose of tylenol for a fever or use sweet oil for an earache or have a child gargle salt water for a sore throat without consulting a doctor? No. So why should someone be called out/attacked for the equivalent? Imho it really doesn't belong on a soap forum in the first place, but tolerance of differing opinions and beliefs belong everywhere.


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## Dahila (Feb 22, 2015)

mx6inpenn said:


> I would say that is a treatment, not medicating. Tylenol (which is probably far more dangerous) *is* medicating. Is it wrong to give a dose of tylenol for a fever or use sweet oil for an earache or have a child gargle salt water for a sore throat without consulting a doctor? No. So why should someone be called out/attacked for the equivalent? Imho it really doesn't belong on a soap forum in the first place, but tolerance of differing opinions and beliefs belong everywhere.



No one is attacking one here,


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## mx5inpenn (Feb 22, 2015)

Dahila said:


> EVOO is just an olive oil and mostly it is mixed with sunflower oil.



This is correct for most all evoo imported to the US. Imports arent tested. If you want 100% evoo here, you are better off buying one pressed in the US, find one with a California olive oil council seal.


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## Susie (Feb 23, 2015)

mx6inpenn said:


> I would say that is a treatment, not medicating. Tylenol (which is probably far more dangerous) *is* medicating. Is it wrong to give a dose of tylenol for a fever or use sweet oil for an earache or have a child gargle salt water for a sore throat without consulting a doctor? No. So why should someone be called out/attacked for the equivalent? Imho it really doesn't belong on a soap forum in the first place, but tolerance of differing opinions and beliefs belong everywhere.



I made a simple statement of fact after reading what hud does to treat her children for illnesses.  I wanted people to understand that such treatment is not something considered appropriate medical treatment in the US.  I am a nurse.  We were taught what are mandatory reporting situations.  That would be one.  I really made the statement to warn other people.  I did not bring any sort of medical advice to a soaping forum, and the only reason I quoted her was because she asked what sort of medical treatment I was referring to.


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## Nehlena (Feb 23, 2015)




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## SoapBro (Feb 23, 2015)

hud said:


> SoapBro, do you mean by regular olive oil is the yellow or light yellow color oil that usually labeled as Olive Olive only?
> Why some times the same quality comes with dark color? I used EVOO all my life, and when I started making soap my soap makers friends referred me to pomace oo, but I am not familiar with the quality in between.
> Thank you in advance.



I've never in my life seen olive oil that is yellow, olive oil is NOT yellow, there must be some other oil mixed in there, regardless of quality, pure olive oil, even if not extra virgin is green.




Dahila said:


> Soapbro what planet are you living on?  Have you not read about adding sunflower oil to EVOO to make the quantity.  Italy and Spain a huge OO producers started to do it for some time.  Anyway I stopped believing in EXTRA and Organic a long time ago.  Where is money the faking exist .
> 
> hud your practice is more like from 14 century and it would not approved in Europe either.  The rules about safety of children are kind of the same Europe or Us or Canada.



i'm living on earth, not sure where you're living, i'm more then aware that there are fake EVOOs that are actually blends, but to go and say that most EVOOs are fake blends like you did is just crazy talk, also EVOO is not the same as just plain olive oil in terms of quality, EVOO is the first Cold pressing of the olives, regular olive oil can be heated and processed further.

I dont know where you're from but here we take our olive oil industry Very seriously, we have few brands that are known for having a lower quality oil because we have a regulatory body that maintains quality, on top of that we as consumers get the oils tested regularly and the results are online for everyone to see.

if you guys as consumers allow your marketplace to be flooded with crap product thats your business but that will never fly here.


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## Nehlena (Feb 23, 2015)

SoapBro said:


> if you guys as consumers allow your marketplace to be flooded with crap product thats your business but that will never fly here.



SoapBro, if someone is not from a country that PRODUCES olive oil, well it is very normal that consumers cannot taste the difference... i am from the mediterraneo and opening my door and getting to the open air, olive oil trees I mainly see -along with pine. So, for me, it is not that easy to full me, but still... 
The other day I purchased cold pressed EVOO and was very green... this is what we call immature here- tastes SOOO good raw on salads etc. and I would like to try to make a batch with it... 

PLEASE... someone give me this answer... when you make a EVOO how much would you SF? And I ask because it conditions alot as an oil...


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## SoapBro (Feb 23, 2015)

Nehlena said:


> SoapBro, if someone is not from a country that PRODUCES olive oil, well it is very normal that consumers cannot taste the difference... i am from the mediterraneo and opening my door and getting to the open air, olive oil trees I mainly see -along with pine. So, for me, it is not that easy to full me, but still...
> The other day I purchased cold pressed EVOO and was very green... this is what we call immature here- tastes SOOO good raw on salads etc. and I would like to try to make a batch with it...
> 
> PLEASE... someone give me this answer... when you make a EVOO how much would you SF? And I ask because it conditions alot as an oil...



Although we produce a lot of oilve oil we also import a large amount, being able to taste the difference is not the issue, just because we have an official quality regulator doesn't mean we trust it, we do batch tests every 6 months or so, they should do what we do.

Regarding your question, if you're planning on making 100% EVOO soap then be aware that it will be very soft for a long time unless you do some sort of water discount, also the superfat shouldn't be very high,  personally i'd do a 40% lye water concentration and a 3% superfat, 
i'm no expert on 100% EVOO castile soap so you should probably wait for a second opinion.


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## Nehlena (Feb 23, 2015)

SoapBro said:


> Although we produce a lot of oilve oil we also import a large amount, being able to taste the difference is not the issue, just because we have an official quality regulator doesn't mean we trust it, we do batch tests every 6 months or so, they should do what we do.



True...


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 23, 2015)

Nehlena, I started a new thread with your question as it was a little bit lost and also a bit of a hijaak from the flow here.


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## Susie (Feb 23, 2015)

I can't find the new thread, so I am going to answer here.  I would not use more than a 5% SF.  It should not need more than that, especially with the 6 month-1 year cure time on a true Castile, or even a Bastile soap with a really high amount of OO.  Exactly because OO is already so conditioning and has EVOO has a lot of unsaponifiables.


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## Dahila (Feb 23, 2015)

soapbro answering your question; I live in Canada in the most populated province, not some third world country as you suggested,  Thank you very much
I had lived in Spain for over two years, in village specializing in OO production ) Seen it, been there, and there is not way you can taste the difference in OO,


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## SoapBro (Feb 23, 2015)

Dahila said:


> soapbro answering your question; I live in Canada in the most populated province, not some third world country as you suggested,  Thank you very much
> I had lived in Spain for over two years, in village specializing in OO production ) Seen it, been there, and there is not way you can taste the difference in OO,


i didnt suggest you lived in some third world country.. i dont think i wrote anything even relating to third world countries, i actually thought you're american.

i never said you can taste the difference either, when i said we test out oils i meant lab test if that wasn't clear.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 23, 2015)

Okay, folks - keep it above the belt, watch the rabbit punches and the high elbows. 

This is getting a little rough and tumble so take a breath before posting replies here please.


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## TeriDk (Feb 23, 2015)

This thread has been entertaining.  I use organic EVOO for my soaps.  I have no idea whether it makes a better soap but there is something to be said about sustainable agriculture, healthier soils which makes for a better olive and healthier workers.  Using nasty chemicals to extract oil does not appeal to me...exactly how are these chemicals disposed of?  In buying organic EVOO, certified ones, I had anywhere from dark green to a bright yellow depending on the origin of the oil.  I recently ordered a kit because I wanted to try using tallow for the 1st time.  The kit also used POO.  I don't care for the soap at all but others might like it just fine.  I don't make soap for profit, I make them because I'm concerned about what we are poring into our oceans.  The reefs are dying.


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## hud (Feb 25, 2015)

[FONT=&quot]Actually I have to say that maybe I shouldn’t have posted anything that is not related directly to soap making, I do apologize for all the readers for wasting their time reading this subject. Vonna I apologize for ruining your thread with such conversation I honestly didn’t mean to.  I would like to thank the admins for their patience, but also I would like to say that I am surprised how I was attacked, I didn’t really expect that. I was thinking that people here are friendlier. I wouldn’t approach someone who has different point of view about something the same way I was approached, and for those who think that I am using methods from 14th century I still don’t understand why such thing would be said. There is always two ways to say the same thing. I have a descent degree in medicine, I worked in  large famous manufacture for producing medicines, and I was mainly in charge of the whole process of adding chemical substances to create medicines to the finale shape of all types of medicines that was on the market at that time. I know very well what medical industry is. I have other degrees as well. I lived in several countries due to work; also I have traveled around the globe for various reasons. I am familiar with a lot of rules and regulations in the countries where either I live or I lived and traveled. I would say that always education is the key for solving any conflict. I think that the guys whom I believed attacked me maybe thinking that I am someone with no education, or they may not have heard of such different things than what they know. I came from a background that is educated, tolerant and open-minded. I do have plenty of friends or family friends who are either physicians or specialists and I am in touch with many of them, for those who are worried about me thank you for expressing your personal opinions and thank you for your kind feelings I am not acting on my own I am under the care of certified physicians who are working with me, they have the same natural route I have and I believe that they are aware of all the rules and regulations that applies to their career. I do appreciate for all of you your concerns about the safety of my children regardless whatever motivation you had. I always have respect for elder people and I understand that it’s difficult for them to change their minds about something which is not a problem for me. I don’t like to practice ethnocentrism over others, I like to be just and fare with them because I respect other people’s culture, practices, language, faith and all other differences. I am not saying that anyone has practiced it or not in this thread I am only expressing myself who I am.[/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot]I don’t think we should talk about this subject anymore because I don’t see any beneficial point of bringing it up again. I would like to suggest that the admins close this thread to keep it peaceful, its only suggestion you decide guys what is the best to do. Thank you for all your efforts taking care of this forum.
[/FONT]
  [FONT=&quot]Thanks for everyone here; I learned good things from this thread.[/FONT]


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