# Help needed please. Preservative question in scrubs.



## nourishbay (May 15, 2020)

I am making a sugar scrub and I want to put in preservative. The one I am using is phenoxyethanol. My recipe is a percentage of oils and a percentage of sugar mixed.  I know preservative is used at 1%. So my question: is it 1% of the liquid oils or 1% of everything including the sugar? The Sugar is a dry ingredient so not sure if I should include it? Thanks


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## atiz (May 15, 2020)

nourishbay said:


> I am making a sugar scrub and I want to put in preservative. The one I am using is phenoxyethanol. My recipe is a percentage of oils and a percentage of sugar mixed.  I know preservative is used at 1%. So my question: is it 1% of the liquid oils or 1% of everything including the sugar? The Sugar is a dry ingredient so not sure if I should include it? Thanks


You would want to use 1% of your total batch weight (including the sugar).

If your scrub is oil-based, and you are not planning to get it wet with your fingers, you may not need a preservative. But if you do use one, I would probably use a broad-spectrum one (phenoxyethanol is not one of those).


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## Megan (May 15, 2020)

I am also trying phenoxyethanol in my formula. No, it's not broad spectrum...but people still use it often in these types of products. From what I understand, the high concentration of sugar also helps to preserve the formulation if water introduction is kept to a minimum.


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## shunt2011 (May 15, 2020)

I use 1% of the entire batch.  Sugar is the food that feeds molds etc. especially once exposed to water.  I use Phenonip correction I use Germall.  I just had to go and look at my recipe and notes.   It's phenonip that doesn't work well with Polysorbates.  I tired Optiphen but had problems with it clumping in my mix regardless of the temp.


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## nourishbay (May 15, 2020)

I read it is broad. Here is the snippet. *Phenoxyethanol* is incredibly versatile: It works in a large range of formulas and pH ranges, has *broad spectrum* activity against many pathogens you don't want multiplying in your skincare products, is stable, and is compatible with many other *preservatives* used in cosmetics.


So what preservative do you use for coconut oil and shea butter based sugar scrubs. Because people keep it in the bathroom and dip wet fingers in.


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## Megan (May 15, 2020)

nourishbay said:


> I read it is broad. Here is the snippet. *Phenoxyethanol* is incredibly versatile: It works in a large range of formulas and pH ranges, has *broad spectrum* activity against many pathogens you don't want multiplying in your skincare products, is stable, and is compatible with many other *preservatives* used in cosmetics.
> 
> 
> So what preservative do you use for coconut oil and shea butter based sugar scrubs. Because people keep it in the bathroom and dip wet fingers in.


Phenoxyethanol has little activity against mold. I know some people use Optiphen plus because of sorbic acid....there are others though. I still maintain that if you keep water contamination to a minimum, sugar used at around 60% is a good preservative. Sugar can absorb a ton of water, leaving it unavailable for microbes. You don't want to leave a pool of water on top of your scrub, but the miniscule introduction from wet fingers once or twice during each use should not be an issue.


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## atiz (May 15, 2020)

I agree with @Megan, if it is for yourself and know how to be careful. 
If you give it away or sell, I would use Liquid germall plus or something similar.


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## amd (May 15, 2020)

Megan said:


> I still maintain that if you keep water contamination to a minimum, sugar used at around 60% is a good preservative. Sugar can absorb a ton of water, leaving it unavailable for microbes. You don't want to leave a pool of water on top of your scrub, but the miniscule introduction from wet fingers once or twice during each use should not be an issue.


The chemist I share an office with has told me that sugar as a preservative only works with food based products - such as jams or salt for curing meat, etc. - and does not apply to the world of cosmetics. Any introduction of water is a risk for mold and/or bacteria contamination.

That said, I use Germall for my emulsified oil scrubs. I saw a table (and I should have saved the link) that very clearly explained the advantages of different preservatives. Germall, although it is a bit picky about temperature, seemed to cover the majority of situations.


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## cmzaha (May 15, 2020)

@shunt2011 I just posted this in another thread. Where did you read about Optiphen being inactivated or unstable with Polysorbates? I have only read about Phenonip becoming inactivated or possibly inactivated with polysorbates. One problem with using it in sugar scrubs or lotions it is not good against mold, fungi or yeast. It is also better in products that contain water. But it does look like Optiphen ND can be used but still may not be a great pick. 
Here is a link to one site I like
Preservative Reviews


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## nourishbay (May 15, 2020)

amd said:


> The chemist I share an office with has told me that sugar as a preservative only works with food based products - such as jams or salt for curing meat, etc. - and does not apply to the world of cosmetics. Any introduction of water is a risk for mold and/or bacteria contamination.
> 
> That said, I use Germall for my emulsified oil scrubs. I saw a table (and I should have saved the link) that very clearly explained the advantages of different preservatives. Germall, although it is a bit picky about temperature, seemed to cover the majority of situations.


Please send the link. Thanks. Mine us emulsified too


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## nourishbay (May 15, 2020)

So for you guys thst make emulsified scrubs Gremall is the way to go? This is for UK purchase. Please send link to a reputable buyer you have used. Thanks


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## nourishbay (May 15, 2020)

shunt2011 said:


> I use 1% of the entire batch.  Sugar is the food that feeds molds etc. especially once exposed to water.  I use Phenonip correction I use Germall.  I just had to go and look at my recipe and notes.   It's phenonip that doesn't work well with Polysorbates.  I tired Optiphen but had problems with it clumping in my mix regardless of the temp.


You use at 1% of total mix?


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## Megan (May 15, 2020)

amd said:


> The chemist I share an office with has told me that sugar as a preservative only works with food based products - such as jams or salt for curing meat, etc. - and does not apply to the world of cosmetics. Any introduction of water is a risk for mold and/or bacteria contamination.
> 
> That said, I use Germall for my emulsified oil scrubs. I saw a table (and I should have saved the link) that very clearly explained the advantages of different preservatives. Germall, although it is a bit picky about temperature, seemed to cover the majority of situations.


Good to know. I always use a preservative but I thought that might help at least a bit.


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## LilyJo (May 15, 2020)

Is the for personal use or are you planning on selling?

Don't forget rules on ingredients and max %ages are very different in the US to the EU.  If you are thinking of selling you would need to check EU  approved preservatives and usage rates- your assessor can help too.

But if it's just for personal use, you can use whatever you want but just be careful.


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## nourishbay (May 15, 2020)

LilyJo said:


> Is the for personal use or are you planning on selling?
> 
> Don't forget rules on ingredients and max %ages are very different in the US to the EU.  If you are thinking of selling you would need to check EU  approved preservatives and usage rates- your assessor can help too.
> 
> But if it's just for personal use, you can use whatever you want but just be careful.


For selling


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## amd (May 15, 2020)

nourishbay said:


> Please send the link.











						Preservative Reviews
					

PreservativesAll you need to know!Learn how to preserve effectivelyCommon strategies chemists use to pass preservative testsPreservative free?True or false? Previous Next Free, online skincare…




					makingskincare.com
				



I think this was the source I referenced. As I said originally, I did not save the link, but this looks familiar...


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## atiz (May 15, 2020)

But I guess if selling in the UK the EU rules may not apply any more :/

For selling, I would definitely use a broad-spectrum preservative. I have used Liquid Germall Plus in emulsified sugar scrub and it worked fine, I had mine in the shower for like 6 months.

I also find this helpful when I just quickly want to look up something.


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## nourishbay (May 15, 2020)

Thanks all and for the links. One of the articles say Liquid germall plus in EU is to to be used in creams and lotions. My question is can I use it I. Sugar scrubs as the will be washed off? Also max usage is at. 5% not 1% like the others


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## amd (May 15, 2020)

nourishbay said:


> One of the articles say Liquid germall plus in EU is to to be used in creams and lotions. My question is can I use it I. Sugar scrubs as the will be washed off?


Sugar scrub is not a cream or a lotion, so you should be fine to use it.


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## atiz (May 15, 2020)

It should be fine. But I think the usage rate is 0.5%, not 5% -- you should double check.


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## cmzaha (May 15, 2020)

Megan said:


> Phenoxyethanol has little activity against mold. I know some people use Optiphen plus because of sorbic acid....there are others though. I still maintain that if you keep water contamination to a minimum, sugar used at around 60% is a good preservative. Sugar can absorb a ton of water, leaving it unavailable for microbes. You don't want to leave a pool of water on top of your scrub, but the miniscule introduction from wet fingers once or twice during each use should not be an issue.


If you research sugar is only considered a preservative for food not cosmetics. Oops I see this was already mentioned.


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## Megan (May 15, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> If you research sugar is only considered a preservative for food not cosmetics. Oops I see this was already mentioned.


I'm wondering if this is because food is subject to harsh digestion? So there's still microbial growth but not enough to be dangerous once it reaches our
 stomach?


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## LilyJo (May 16, 2020)

If this is for selling the person to ask is a cosmetic assessor, they can tell you what would be acceptable on a Cosmetic Safety Assessment. Please remember the rules for ingredients, max percentages and usage is very different in the EU to the US and as you would need your recipe approved before sale, it makes sense to check from someone who has the responsibility for such advice.

Recommend speaking to Cosmetic Safety Assessments, they are pretty good at initial advice before assessment.

Oh and yes the CSPR does still apply even after Brexit!


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## nourishbay (May 16, 2020)

nourishbay said:


> Thanks all and for the links. One of the articles say Liquid germall plus in EU is to to be used in creams and lotions. My question is can I use it I. Sugar scrubs as the will be washed off?





atiz said:


> It should be fine. But I think the usage rate is 0.5%, not 5% -- you should double check.


Yes sorry. I meant 0.5%


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## nourishbay (May 16, 2020)

For the UK there is only two accessors I have found so far. Naturalthinking and soap kitchen. Any one knows of any other?


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## shunt2011 (May 16, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> @shunt2011 I just posted this in another thread. Where did you read about Optiphen being inactivated or unstable with Polysorbates? I have only read about Phenonip becoming inactivated or possibly inactivated with polysorbates. One problem with using it in sugar scrubs or lotions it is not good against mold, fungi or yeast. It is also better in products that contain water. But it does look like Optiphen ND can be used but still may not be a great pick.
> Here is a link to one site I like
> Preservative Reviews


I corrected it after checking my notes. It was Phenonip.


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## LilyJo (May 16, 2020)

nourishbay said:


> For the UK there is only two accessors I have found so far. Naturalthinking and soap kitchen. Any one knows of any other?


There are loads of them, google it and the top one is the one I mentioned Cosmetic Safety Assessments, there are plenty of others too. The ones you mentioned you have to use their products for the assessment but an independent one is better.


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