# Soap too soft and creamy day 2 – after saponification process



## alexanderte (Jun 22, 2016)

I tried to make soap yesterday following this very simple recipe:

*Superfat*
5%

*Lye*
115.54 g (4.08 oz)

*Liquid*
337.5 g (11.90 oz)

*Olive oil*
900 g (31.75 oz)

This was my second batch. If I recall correctly then the soap after the saponification process of my first batch was a lot more solid. This time it was really soft and creamy.

If I’ve done anything wrong then it might be that the scale wasn’t resting on a stable surface. That might have confused the scale, and it might have done the weighing incorrectly. :-?

I probably need to throw this away?


----------



## Rusti (Jun 22, 2016)

What oils did you make your first batch out of? Lots of more experienced folks than I have mentioned that a 100% OO soap will take much longer to unmold sometimes.


----------



## alexanderte (Jun 22, 2016)

Rusti said:


> What oils did you make your first batch out of? Lots of more experienced folks than I have mentioned that a 100% OO soap will take much longer to unmold sometimes.


For the first batch I was using extra virgin olive oil – I used no additional oils. For this one I switched to regular olive oil.


----------



## kchaystack (Jun 22, 2016)

Castille soap can take several days to a week to get to harden depending on several factors.  It looks like you used full water.  If you used a silicon mold that will also need longer to unmold.

Give your soap about a week, then zap test.  If there is no zap - it should be ok to use.

It will also take about a year for 100 olive oil soaps to cure.


----------



## penelopejane (Jun 22, 2016)

You can use 100% Castile after a few months cure it just gets harder over time so will be less likely to go mushy.


----------



## alexanderte (Jun 22, 2016)

kchaystack said:


> Castille soap can take several days to a week to get to harden depending on several factors.  It looks like you used full water.  If you used a silicon mold that will also need longer to unmold.
> 
> Give your soap about a week, then zap test.  If there is no zap - it should be ok to use.
> 
> It will also take about a year for 100 olive oil soaps to cure.


What does full water mean? I used a larger percentage of water this time than for my first batch. I used 38% which was recommended by SoapCalc. There is no other reason why I used this amount. I need to look further into this.

I’ll let it rest for a week. It looks a bit funny because I cut it when it was so soft, but I’ll be glad if I can use it.

A year!? Wow. I’ll let it cure for a year, but I need to learn some recepies that needs only 4–6 weeks of curing. I really want to use soap that I’ve made myself. :mrgreen:


penelopejane said:


> You can use 100% Castile after a few months cure it just gets harder over time so will be less likely to go mushy.


Do you know how many months?


----------



## kchaystack (Jun 22, 2016)

alexanderte said:


> What does full water mean? I used a larger percentage of water this time than for my first batch. I used 38% which was recommended by SoapCalc. There is no other reason why I used this amount. I need to look further into this.
> 
> I’ll let it rest for a week. It looks a bit funny because I cut it when it was so soft, but I’ll be glad if I can use it.
> 
> A year!? Wow. I’ll let it cure for a year, but I need to learn some recepies that needs only 4–6 weeks of curing. I really want to use soap that I’ve made myself. :mrgreen:




Soapcalc defaults to 38% water as % of oils.  This is anywhere from a 26 -28 % concentration.  This is the lowest concentration lye solution as I would use.  If you used even more water, this means you dropped your lye concentration even lower and that is not ideal for cold process soap (but ok for hot process)

When I make castille soap, I use a 40% lye concentration.  There is a button  under section 3 of soapcalc that says lye concentration.  this means you will use LESS water, and the soap will trace faster and be ready to cut sooner.

It still needs a long cure tho.


alexanderte said:


> Do you know how many months?



This is a question that differs from person to person.  3 to 6 months is ok for some people.


----------



## alexanderte (Jun 22, 2016)

kchaystack said:


> Soapcalc defaults to 38% water as % of oils.  This is anywhere from a 26 -28 % concentration.  This is the lowest concentration lye solution as I would use.  If you used even more water, this means you dropped your lye concentration even lower and that is not ideal for cold process soap (but ok for hot process)
> 
> When I make castille soap, I use a 40% lye concentration.  There is a button  under section 3 of soapcalc that says lye concentration.  this means you will use LESS water, and the soap will trace faster and be ready to cut sooner.
> 
> It still needs a long cure tho.


Water % of Oils, Lye Concentration, Water : Lye Rato – are these the same thing expressed in different ways? I get approximately the same amount of water when setting Water % of Oils to 19.25% as when setting Lye Concentration to 40%.

I know nothing about this – just curious. 

Edit: By the way – for the first batch I used the Bramble Berry Lye Calculator. I think it has a water percentage that is lower than 38%, but it is not stated anywhere that I could find what percentage it uses.

Edit 2: Got the same water amount with Bramble Berry Lye Calculator as SoapCalc when setting the water % to 33%.

Edit 3: Found this post: http://www.lovinsoap.com/2012/12/calculating-your-water-amount-for-soapmaking/ – some simple guidelines: 2 times lye, 1.5 times lye, and 1.1 times lye for different situations. Interesting stuff!


----------



## Arimara (Jun 22, 2016)

alexanderte said:


> Water % of Oils, Lye Concentration, Water : Lye Rato – are these the same thing expressed in different ways? I get approximately the same amount of water when setting Water % of Oils to 19.25% as when setting Lye Concentration to 40%.
> 
> I know nothing about this – just curious.
> 
> ...



Lye Concentration and Water : Lye ratios are the same things expressed differently. Water to Lye ratios are a more generalized outlook of lye concentrations and can help you get a feel for how to use lye concentration when the time is right for you. The same cannot be said of the water percentage. That function causes the water amounts of your recipes to vary in proportion to the weighed amount of oils that you use. Lye concentration and  the ratios keeps your water amounts more consistent and really depend on the amount of lye needed to saponify your oils. The highest you can go is a 50% lye concentration or 1:1 water to lye. You may want to avoid that unless you're using a more advanced technique or something to that effect.


----------



## alexanderte (Jun 22, 2016)

Arimara said:


> Lye Concentration and Water : Lye ratios are the same things expressed differently. Water to Lye ratios are a more generalized outlook of lye concentrations and can help you get a feel for how to use lye concentration when the time is right for you. The same cannot be said of the water percentage. That function causes the water amounts of your recipes to vary in proportion to the weighed amount of oils that you use. Lye concentration and  the ratios keeps your water amounts more consistent and really depend on the amount of lye needed to saponify your oils. The highest you can go is a 50% lye concentration or 1:1 water to lye. You may want to avoid that unless you're using a more advanced technique or something to that effect.


I’m not fully able to grasp the difference, but I sort of understand. Any idea why the water relative to oils instead of water relative to lye is the choice aimed at beginners in SoapCalc? Is there a reason why I _shouldn’t_ think in terms of water relative to lye from the beginning of my soapmaking “career”?

I’ll try the 1.1 : 1 water–lye ratio tomorrow when doing another attempt at making a castile soap.


----------



## penelopejane (Jun 22, 2016)

alexanderte said:


> Do you know how many months?



You can use Castile after 6 weeks but you will find it goes mushy quickly.  You will have to dry it out between uses.  It is generally ok in the shower once a day. This is when people give up and say they hate Castile soap.

After 2 months you will notice it is harder. People still give up on Castile soap at this stage. 

After 6 months it is harder and more creamy. 

After a year it is starting to get really hard and even more creamy. 

After 1 1/2 to 2 years it is a beautiful soap.

If you add 1 tsp of salt ppo it will not be so mushy. It is such a nice soap that it is worth the wait in my opinion.  If you don't have allergies or eczema you can add 1 tsp of honey ppo for more bubbles if that concerns you.


alexanderte said:


> I’m not fully able to grasp the difference, but I sort of understand. Any idea why the water relative to oils instead of water relative to lye is the choice aimed at beginners in SoapCalc? Is there a reason why I _shouldn’t_ think in terms of water relative to lye from the beginning of my soapmaking “career”?
> 
> I’ll try the 1.1 : 1 water–lye ratio tomorrow when doing another attempt at making a castile soap.



There is science behind this and a good explanation from DeeAnna (our resident science teacher) and others:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=53642

It is better to use the "Lye Concentration" as it has more meaning when you actually think about the process. You just have to get used to it.


----------



## TeresaT (Jun 22, 2016)

alexanderte said:


> I’m not fully able to grasp the difference, but I sort of understand. Any idea why the water relative to oils instead of water relative to lye is the choice aimed at beginners in SoapCalc? Is there a reason why I _shouldn’t_ think in terms of water relative to lye from the beginning of my soapmaking “career”?
> 
> *I’ll try the 1.1 : 1 water–lye ratio tomorrow when doing another attempt at making a castile soap*.



I would _not_ recommend using a 50% (1:1) concentration until (1) you have completely read through the thread posted by PenelopeJane wherein DeeAnna explains the science behind the lye concentration and (2) you understand completely the science of lye concentration.  The lye concentrations we regularly use  (26% to 40% as kchaystack pointed out) are extremely strong and quite dangerous.  To use a 50% concentration _without having a specific purpose to do so_ is, in my opinion, asking for trouble.  I am offering this advice to you because I consider myself an "experienced" soaper,  and still managed to burn the crud out of my hands on raw soap. 

I did a zap test on a soap I made and it passed.  So, I washed my hands with the soap.  After about 15 seconds of lathering up, my hands were on FIRE!  I quickly switched the tap to cold and flooded my hands with cool running water for about 5 or 10 minutes. 

I had nasty burns on my hands after 15 seconds with partially saponified 2:1 concentrate lye (my normal 33.333% concentration).  Imagine what can happen if you accidentally splash 1:1 lye solution or raw batter on yourself?   I'm pretty gutsy and daring.  I have a "try anything attitude" when it comes to making soap (I love vinegar as a water replacement!), but I would not soap with a 50% solution.


----------



## Susie (Jun 22, 2016)

alexanderte said:


> .
> 
> Edit 3: Found this post: http://www.lovinsoap.com/2012/12/calculating-your-water-amount-for-soapmaking/ – some simple guidelines: 2 times lye, 1.5 times lye, and 1.1 times lye for different situations. Interesting stuff!



You need to use a lye calculator to figure out your lye and liquid amounts until you have more experience.  You can, however, change your lye concentration (as mentioned above) as needed for different situations.


----------



## Arimara (Jun 22, 2016)

alexanderte said:


> I’m not fully able to grasp the difference, but I sort of understand. Any idea why the water relative to oils instead of water relative to lye is the choice aimed at beginners in SoapCalc? Is there a reason why I _shouldn’t_ think in terms of water relative to lye from the beginning of my soapmaking “career”?
> 
> I’ll try the 1.1 : 1 water–lye ratio tomorrow when doing another attempt at making a castile soap.



1. Water relative to lye is generally how many soapers first learned how to soap, from my general understanding. There's nothing wrong with it some recipes but when it comes to castiles and some other recipes (another type of soap that uses primarily coconut oil), this setting will give you not-as-nice results.

2. Many of the soapers here prefer the latter two settings because of the more consistent results you get from them relative to the batch size of the soap.  I was going to continue but I lost my train of thought. ALso, Penelope gave you a link that will help you tremendously. DeeAnna's advice is one of the biggest gems you can come across here and well worth the read.


TeresaT said:


> I would _not_ recommend using a 50% (1:1) concentration until (1) you have completely read through the thread posted by PenelopeJane wherein DeeAnna explains the science behind the lye concentration and (2) you understand completely the science of lye concentration.  The lye concentrations we regularly use  (26% to 40% as kchaystack pointed out) are extremely strong and quite dangerous.  To use a 50% concentration _without having a specific purpose to do so_ is, in my opinion, asking for trouble.  I am offering this advice to you because I consider myself an "experienced" soaper,  and still managed to burn the crud out of my hands on raw soap.
> 
> I did a zap test on a soap I made and it passed.  So, I washed my hands with the soap.  After about 15 seconds of lathering up, my hands were on FIRE!  I quickly switched the tap to cold and flooded my hands with cool running water for about 5 or 10 minutes.
> 
> I had nasty burns on my hands after 15 seconds with partially saponified 2:1 concentrate lye (my normal 33.333% concentration).  Imagine what can happen if you accidentally splash 1:1 lye solution or raw batter on yourself?   I'm pretty gutsy and daring.  I have a "try anything attitude" when it comes to making soap (I love vinegar as a water replacement!), but I would not soap with a 50% solution.



I don't mean to double post like this but this is sound advice and to your benefit more often than not. There are few times you may need to make up a 50% lye solution for but they are more advanced projects that you're not quite ready to tackle. I'm telling you from personal experience, get a good understanding of lye concentrations and/or ratios BEFORE you try to venture off with different soaps (ie- milk soaps, beer soaps, ghost swirls). Once you get a good understanding, then sky's the limit for you.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jun 23, 2016)

Even after 6 months, home made Castile can be disappointing, depending on your expectations. Of course you CAN use it at 6 weeks, but then there are lots of things that one CAN do, but that doesn't make them good ideas!

I would start to make other recipes for a bit, leaving your Castile alone to cure for a nice amount of time. More balanced recipes only need 4 weeks to cure, which is much easier for a beginner to deal with


----------



## alexanderte (Jun 23, 2016)

I guess I need to work on my patience. Two years is a while. But I see no reason why I can’t do both. I can make Castile soap that will be ready in 1–2 years, and I can try recipes that cures faster at the same time. I plan on having a curing rack of some sort, and I label my batches with a number – and I’ve got more detailed batch information on my computer.

I read the thread with posts by DeeAnna. Very clear, fun, and helpful read! I will use water relative to lye from now on.

What lye concentration do you recommend for a Castile soap? 40%?


----------



## alexanderte (Jun 23, 2016)

I did another Castile batch today with 5% superfat, 40% lye concentration, 35 °C/95 °F. Took ages to cool down the lye water. Ended up filling the sink with cold water. Temperature and timing is complicated!

I hope it won’t take more than 24 hours before it’s ready for cutting.


----------



## kchaystack (Jun 23, 2016)

alexanderte said:


> I did another Castile batch today with 5% superfat, 40% lye concentration, 35 °C/95 °F. Took ages to cool down the lye water. Ended up filling the sink with cold water. Temperature and timing is complicated!
> 
> I hope it won’t take more than 24 hours before it’s ready for cutting.



You really do not have to let the lye cool.  The heat will help speed up trace as well, which is really helpful with this kind of soap.  ANd it might also promote gel phase, which will let you cut sooner.


----------



## alexanderte (Jun 23, 2016)

kchaystack said:


> You really do not have to let the lye cool.  The heat will help speed up trace as well, which is really helpful with this kind of soap.  ANd it might also promote gel phase, which will let you cut sooner.


Okay, that would save me a lot of time. It starts out at around 80 °C/176 °F. Can I mix it with the oil at that temperature? And do I need to heat the oil?


----------



## cmzaha (Jun 23, 2016)

What is usually going to happen with a 50% Lye Concentration 1:1 is the fact it is going to trace much faster and I find in some recipes it can leave the soap dry and brittle. Yes, I have played with 50% concentrations, lol sometimes accidently. I do find a 50% works well in pure light olive oil, will usually trace very quickly with pomace, I do not use EVOO so no help there.
Theresa, I do not find any difference between a 30% solution versus a 50% solution or even straight lye crystals when it comes to acquiring a burn on the skin. It all burns equally in my opinion. Unfortunately I am a great one for getting bit by lye, since it can get above my short nitrile gloves


----------



## kchaystack (Jun 23, 2016)

alexanderte said:


> Okay, that would save me a lot of time. It starts out at around 80 °C/176 °F. Can I mix it with the oil at that temperature? And do I need to heat the oil?



No need to heat the oils.  I would make the lye, set it aside as I measure my oils and get my mold and sb ready, then carefully pour the lye in the oils and blend in short pulses using the sb to stir between. 

Of course if you want to add color or scent - then I would change this up a bit, but for plain soap it will work fine.


----------



## alexanderte (Jun 23, 2016)

kchaystack said:


> No need to heat the oils.  I would make the lye, set it aside as I measure my oils and get my mold and sb ready, then carefully pour the lye in the oils and blend in short pulses using the sb to stir between.
> 
> Of course if you want to add color or scent - then I would change this up a bit, but for plain soap it will work fine.


That’s a time saver. Is there any use at all to measure temperature when doing CP soapmaking?

How would you do it different if adding scent. If I’m going to add a scent, then it will be an EO of some kind.


----------



## kchaystack (Jun 23, 2016)

alexanderte said:


> That’s a time saver. Is there any use at all to measure temperature when doing CP soapmaking?
> 
> How would you do it different if adding scent. If I’m going to add a scent, then it will be an EO of some kind.



I have found that usually there is no need to measure temps for soap.  I use my thermometer for lotion making.

Depends on the blend.  Mostly I would add the EO to the oils before the lye and give it a blitz to combine.  Then pour the lye in the oils from there.

If my scent is an accelerator or causes heating, I'd probably let my lye cool to room temp.  This is because I would not want it to overheat and crack or volcano out of the mold.   But the EO's would still go into the oils before anything else.  

You can make you lye up the day before - if you have a safe place to keep it so it dose not get knocked over, and something to cover the container.  

I masterbatch my lye as a 50% solution (1:1 lye to water) which is about 1.5 liters at a time.  When I want to make soap I our out the amount I need of my solution and then add extra liquid to create my desired concentration.  It is a bit more math but it is not that hard to do.


----------



## alexanderte (Jun 23, 2016)

kchaystack said:


> I have found that usually there is no need to measure temps for soap.  I use my thermometer for lotion making.
> 
> Depends on the blend.  Mostly I would add the EO to the oils before the lye and *give it a blitz to combine*.  Then pour the lye in the oils from there.


What do you mean by giving it a blitz? I’m Norwegian. Don’t understand much. :mrgreen:



kchaystack said:


> *If my scent is an accelerator or causes heating*, I'd probably let my lye cool to room temp.  This is because I would not want it to overheat and crack or volcano out of the mold.   *But the EO's would still go into the oils before anything else.*


How do I know if an EO is an accelerator or causes heating? Do you pour all of the EO in the oils – or do you save some amount for right after the trace?


cmzaha said:


> What is usually going to happen with a 50% Lye Concentration 1:1 is the fact it is going to trace much faster and I find in some recipes it can leave the soap dry and brittle. Yes, I have played with 50% concentrations, lol sometimes accidently. I do find a 50% works well in pure light olive oil, will usually trace very quickly with pomace, I do not use EVOO so no help there.
> Theresa, I do not find any difference between a 30% solution versus a 50% solution or even straight lye crystals when it comes to acquiring a burn on the skin. It all burns equally in my opinion. Unfortunately I am a great one for getting bit by lye, since it can get above my short nitrile gloves


I think I for now will stick to the max 40% guidelines that I’ve read previously in this thread – unless I get another soft batter to cut tomorrow.


----------



## kchaystack (Jun 23, 2016)

alexanderte said:


> What do you mean by giving it a blitz? I’m Norwegian. Don’t understand much. :mrgreen:



A quick pulse with your stick blender.  Or with your whisk.




alexanderte said:


> How do I know if an EO is an accelerator or causes heating? Do you pour all of the EO in the oils – or do you save some amount for right after the trace?



You can check reviews on soap sites.  Mostly it is things like clove and cinnamon (things you can't use much of anyway because they are irritants at larger amounts).  I am not an expert on EO's as I don't use many, I like the versatility of FO's.   

And no, dump them all in up front.  No need to save anything to add at trace.


alexanderte said:


> I think I for now will stick to the max 40% guidelines that I’ve read previously in this thread – unless I get another soft batter to cut tomorrow.



If you press on the side of your soap gently and it dents, do not cut it.  Let it sit another day.


----------



## alexanderte (Jun 23, 2016)

Thanks for the clarifications and advice, kchaystack. This is really helpful.


----------



## doriettefarm (Jun 23, 2016)

Just be careful about adding EOs at high temps . . . if it's too hot all your lovely scent will evaporate!  Same for some fragrance oils so check the flashpoint of whatever scent you decide to use.


----------



## penelopejane (Jun 25, 2016)

If you use butters and hard oils you might find you need to soap at 110*F to keep them from solidifying into spots or swirls of unsaponified oil
EOs are not necessarily "better". I am allergic to most EOs. DH can't have any fragrance - hence the mild Castile.


----------



## alexanderte (Jul 2, 2016)

kchaystack said:


> No need to heat the oils.  I would make the lye, set it aside as I measure my oils and get my mold and sb ready, then carefully pour the lye in the oils and blend in short pulses using the sb to stir between.
> 
> Of course if you want to add color or scent - then I would change this up a bit, but for plain soap it will work fine.


I just need to bring this one up another time. If the lye water is at 180 °F and my oils are not heated – will this cause any problems when mixing the two?

When making a Castile yesterday, I used non-heated olive oil, but was afraid to mix it straight away with the lye water – so I waited until the lye water was at 100 °F. I don’t think I got a medium–thick trace – only a light–medium (I guess). I’m a bit concerned about the saponification process for this batch – it seems very floaty still, one day after. This is the first time I’m using silicone molds, so that might slow down the saponification process?

What would comfort me was if there were an ideal temperature for mixing lye water into oils for this RT CP method.

Edit: I’m googling and it seems like falce trace (not sure if that has happened to any of my batches) seems to happen more often when mixing at colder temperatures. I know nothing about this – I’m just a bit concerned.

Edit 2: False trace is probably not a problem when using only olive oil, as it doesn’t turn solid at colder temperatures like coconut oil do. Right?


----------



## alexanderte (Jul 2, 2016)

http://www.soap-making-essentials.com/how-to-make-soap-roomtemp.html

This page pretty much explains it when there are hard oils involved. But I’m a bit confused when it comes to a Castile with only olive oil.


----------



## Susie (Jul 2, 2016)

No worries about false trace with just olive oil.  No hard oils to set back up.  

I never worry about temperature with my recipes, as I do not do fancy swirls or anything.  I mix the oils, mix the NaOH with the water, then dump the hot NaOH/water mixture into the oils.


----------



## alexanderte (Jul 2, 2016)

Susie said:


> No worries about false trace with just olive oil.  No hard oils to set back up.


Great! One thing less to worry about. 



Susie said:


> I never worry about temperature with my recipes, as I do not do fancy swirls or anything.  I mix the oils, mix the NaOH with the water, then dump the hot NaOH/water mixture into the oils.


I’m currently not into the decorative aspect of soap making, which means that I have even one less thing to worry about. 

But when making a Castile, i.e. only having olive oil, when using the room temperature method – can I mix when the lye water is at 180 °F? There is nothing to prepare, so there is little that I can occupy my time with while waiting for it to cool down – I only have one oil.


----------



## penelopejane (Jul 2, 2016)

I would be a bit concerned that your Castile hasn't set one day later.


----------



## Seawolfe (Jul 2, 2016)

Are you using a stick blender? It takes a looong time to get to trace, or even emulsion if you are making castile soap and not using a stick blender. And is your scale pretty accurate? You can check by weighing coins of known weight. Also, silicone loaf molds seem to take longer for the soap to harden up in some cases.

And yes, you can use the really hot lye solution, some people even use that heat transfer to melt solid fats. When working with liquid oils I prefer to let the lye cool a bit (say 130-150 deg F), just so I don't have hot lava soap batter.


----------



## alexanderte (Jul 2, 2016)

penelopejane said:


> I would be a bit concerned that your Castile hasn't set one day later.


I hope it’s because of the silicon molds – first time I’ve ever used them. Other than that I remember that the trace felt a bit thin. And – as I might already have mentioned, I mixed when lye water was at 95 ºF. What will happen if the trace is too thin? Will it take a longer to saponify – or will it not saponify at all?



Seawolfe said:


> *Are you using a stick blender?* It takes a looong time to get to trace, or even emulsion if you are making castile soap and not using a stick blender.


I’m using a stick blender.



Seawolfe said:


> *And is your scale pretty accurate?* You can check by weighing coins of known weight. Also, silicone loaf molds seem to take longer for the soap to harden up in some cases.


I think so. I paid around $40 for it. I remember on the packaging it said that it was precise down to +/- 1 gram.



Seawolfe said:


> And yes, *you can use the really hot lye solution*, some people even use that heat transfer to melt solid fats. When working with liquid oils I prefer to let the lye cool a bit (say 130-150 deg F), just so I don't have hot lava soap batter.


Thanks! Very good to know that I don’t need to worry about the temperature for this particular recipe.


----------



## Arimara (Jul 2, 2016)

Seawolfe said:


> Are you using a stick blender? It takes a looong time to get to trace, or even emulsion if you are making castile soap and not using a stick blender. And is your scale pretty accurate? You can check by weighing coins of known weight. Also, silicone loaf molds seem to take longer for the soap to harden up in some cases.
> 
> And yes, you can use the really hot lye solution, some people even use that heat transfer to melt solid fats. When working with liquid oils I prefer to let the lye cool a bit (say 130-150 deg F), just so I don't have hot lava soap batter.



Better than me. I just pour the lye as soon as the temp starts to decrease  and mix it with my oils until they're all melted. I only heat up my oils if I use cocoa butter or any of the solid palms.


----------



## topofmurrayhill (Jul 2, 2016)

alexanderte said:


> Other than that I remember that the trace felt a bit thin. What will happen if the trace is too thin? Will it take a longer to saponify – or will it not saponify at all?



Very thin trace can slow down saponification, but whether this is noticeable depends on your recipe and procedure. It can become important when you are making a recipe that saponifies slowly by its nature.

Trace is a convenient approximation of the point at which the soap batter is not likely to separate when you stop mixing. This applies best to recipes that contain a balance of hard and soft oils. Extra measures are called for in the case of a soft-oil recipe like castile. At 25% lye concentration or a very light trace the batter is likely to separate to some extent. For castile you should use a water discount and be sure to get a good trace.

Separation at least results in the soap on top being slightly different from the soap on the bottom. In more extreme cases the soap can be oily on top and lye heavy at the bottom, or the batch can fail entirely.


----------



## ngian (Jul 3, 2016)

alexanderte said:


> Thanks! Very good to know that I don’t need to worry about the temperature for this particular recipe.



Well in case you are using Virgin Olive oil, you should only use a whisk while mixing with high temperature.


----------



## Susie (Jul 3, 2016)

ngian said:


> Well in case you are using Virgin Olive oil, you should only use a whisk while mixing with high temperature.



Not that I would spend the extra money for VOO or EVOO, but why?


----------



## earlene (Jul 3, 2016)

Susie said:


> Not that I would spend the extra money for VOO or EVOO, but why?



Sometimes it is actually cheaper.


----------



## ngian (Jul 3, 2016)

Susie said:


> Not that I would spend the extra money for VOO or EVOO, but why?


Mixing when lye would be at 80°C, trace would come very quickly. The same is for the heat transfer method at any recipe. 

I guess this cannot be done with Pomace or very old Olive oil as the FFAs would make a soap rock in the pot at no time with high temperature.


----------

