# Plain soap turning purple



## chachalaca (Jan 8, 2016)

Hello, I just made two bars of plain soap, no fragrance, no color.  I let them sit in the mold for 24 hrs, then took them out and one was light purple, the other one was white.  With time the light purple bar became darker and the white bar became light purple.  The color is only on the outside, the inside is still white so far. Can someone explain what happened? Can it be an excess of lye? Attached are some pictures. Thank you


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jan 8, 2016)

Hello. 

Can you post your full recipe and procedure - especially the moulds used and if they were new or, if old, what they have been used for for?

Cheers


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## Arimara (Jan 8, 2016)

POst a pic of the soaps too! I'm curious.


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## Obsidian (Jan 8, 2016)

Any chance you used a purple silicone mold?


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## Soapsense (Jan 9, 2016)

That happens to me also, but only when I use a certain fragrance, I just thought it was the fragrance, but I see you didn't use any.  Curious to what causes it.  I use an acrylic mold.


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## Muskette (Jan 9, 2016)

Did you use distilled water?


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## Soapmaker145 (Jan 9, 2016)

Are the molds you used in the background of the picture?  It looks like you used a metal mold that reacts with lye.


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## shunt2011 (Jan 9, 2016)

That's likely the problem. The pans you are using are reacting with the lye. You should only use materials like wood, boxes or plastic lined with freezer paper or silicone molds.  Nice catch.


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## MySoapyHeart (Jan 9, 2016)

Agreed with soapmaker145 ^^ 

After you have uploaded the images of your mold we notice it looks like you have used galvanized metal as a mold. Metal-molds or metal utensils are a huge no-no when making lye-based soap, *unless it is 100% stainles steel.* Lye is highly corrosive and will instantly react with the metal and break it down and seep into your soap. If this is the case here - and it really looks like it - your soap is not safe to use. At least I wouldn`t risk it using it on skin. I am sorry.

But the silver lining of making mistakes, is that we learn from it and can do better next time

*ETA* someone beat me to it while I wrote this. Answers come fast here, lol


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## penelopejane (Jan 10, 2016)

The purple is around the entire soap so they must have used a column mold of some sort, I think.


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## MySoapyHeart (Jan 10, 2016)

penelopejane said:


> The purple is around the entire soap so they must have used a column mold of some sort, I think.



That sounds about right, that pan in the background is way to shallow to have made loaves like that. Perhaps they used molds in metal that is used for making loaves of bread or something...


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## cmzaha (Jan 10, 2016)

I have mentioned this before. There are times when a high lard will do this with some fragrances. My lard always goes pink with my Salty Air Fragrance, and it is not a discoloring fo, only with high lard. Some lard can change to pinkish on its own. Soap just loves to do what it wants to do


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## noob (Jan 10, 2016)

cmzaha said:


> I have mentioned this before. There are times when a high lard will do this with some fragrances. My lard always goes pink with my Salty Air Fragrance, and it is not a discoloring fo, only with high lard. Some lard can change to pinkish on its own. Soap just loves to do what it wants to do



well this explains the purple looking color I was seeing in the middle of my bars. Thanks!


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## chachalaca (Jan 10, 2016)

Thank you for so many thoughts on this issue. The molds I use have always been used to make soap. They are supposed to be of stainless steel, I don't know which grade though. They are open, not precisely a column, they have four walls and a bottom but the top is open. The purple color is on all sides of the soap, including the one that is not in contact with the metal. I will try using another type of mold and or use parchment paper to check if there is a difference. Could there be another reason for this other than the mold? Thanks


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## Steve85569 (Jan 10, 2016)

I myself am suspicious of the recipe you used. I have also seen certain oils trace to colours that are not no way added or part of the plan.
Like Carol said I too have had lard recipes pink up on me with no EO or FO involved. I do not add scents until trace.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jan 11, 2016)

What was the recipe? Please give as much detail as possible, otherwise people are shooting in the dark


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## chachalaca (Jan 12, 2016)

*Recipe*



The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Hello.
> 
> Can you post your full recipe and procedure - especially the moulds used and if they were new or, if old, what they have been used for for?
> 
> Cheers



The moulds are old but have always been used to make soap.  They are supposed to be 100% stainless steel but they do have a rubber between the bottom and the walls to prevent leaking.

The procedure:  I melt coconut oil + beeswax + shea butter + cocoa butter. We pour all melted oils in the mixer and add soybean oil and palm oil.  We start mixing and then add the water+lye solution.  Continue mixing until trace and then pour into the moulds.  We leave the soap for 24-48 hrs in the moulds then take it out, cut it and let them rest for some days.  This was the first time I made a plain bar of soap, before I had always added colour (liquid) and fragrance always after trace.  I've always had color issues though, so I am wondering if this turning purple thing is what is messing up with the color.  

I also think it has a lot to do with the recipe and/or oils I am using or with the fact that to make the first plain bar (the one that is of a darker purple) I only took out color and fragrance and didn't replace that ammount of liquid with anything.  The second bar was an attempt to compensate and turned out a lot better.


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## galaxyMLP (Jan 12, 2016)

What was the last soap you made in those molds? Did they have residual fragrance before you used them?

ETA: Wait, just read its on all sides, even the exposed one... Hmm.


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## shunt2011 (Jan 12, 2016)

Can you post your exact recipe? That may help folks out. Also what fragrance if any used. Also, I hope you let them cure/rest for more than a few days. They should be cured 4-6 weeks. It's certainly a hmmmmm moment for why they turned purple.


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## Susie (Jan 12, 2016)

Yes, please post the entire recipe, including NaOH, water, additives, and fragrances in weights.  This is the only way we can troubleshoot it for you.


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## Muskette (Jan 12, 2016)

What kind of water did you use?


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## chachalaca (Jan 12, 2016)

Muskette said:


> What kind of water did you use?



The water that I used is regular purified drinking water (not from the tap, not distilled).

The exact recipe (without compensating for taking away the fragrance and colour solution = very purple bar):
Ingredient	   QTY (KG)
Water	   0.54
Lye	           0.25
Soy oil	   0.533333
Palm oil	   0.433333
Coconut oil	   0.433333
Beeswax	   0.03
Shea butter	   0.015
Cocoa butter  0.015
BHT	           0.0012

The exact recipe (compensating for fragrance and colour solution = very very light purple bar):
Ingredient	   QTY (KG)
Water	   0.673
Lye	           0.25
Soy oil	   0.533333
Palm oil	   0.433333
Coconut oil	   0.433333
Beeswax	   0.03
Shea butter	   0.015
Cocoa butter  0.015
BHT	           0.0012


Susie said:


> Yes, please post the entire recipe, including NaOH, water, additives, and fragrances in weights.  This is the only way we can troubleshoot it for you.



This are the two recipes I used:

1.Without compensating for taking away fragrance and liquid colour (very purple bar):

Ingredient - QTY (KG)
Water - 0.54
Lye - 0.25
Soy oil - 0.533333
Palm oil - 0.433333
Coconut oil - 0.433333
Beeswax - 0.03
Shea butter - 0.015
Cocoa butter - 0.015
BHT - 0.0012

2. Compensating with water the equivalent weight of the fragrance and colour I took away:

Ingredient - QTY (KG)
Water - 0.673
Lye - 0.25
Soy oil - 0.533333
Palm oil - 0.433333
Coconut oil - 0.433333
Beeswax - 0.03
Shea butter - 0.015
Cocoa butter - 0.015
BHT - 0.0012


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## Steve85569 (Jan 12, 2016)

Does this soap zap?!?
I get a -10 SF using PK flakes when I put this into soapcalc. Something doesn't jive.


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## Susie (Jan 12, 2016)

I don't know why it is turning purple, but I know it is -14% superfat.  So it is lye heavy.  I would not use this for a very long time.  I would also strongly suggest that you make no smaller than 500 gram batches of soap, as very small weighing errors create big bad impacts on smaller batches.

I am assuming you are using BHT in an effort to avoid rancidity in oils, but I have no idea what effect it would have on soap.  I also would not use soybean oil, as you are not adding anything good to the soap with it, and you are raising your risk of DOS.

I would NOT zap test this for a LONG time.


Steve85569 said:


> Does this soap zap?!?
> I get a -10 SF using PK flakes when I put this into soapcalc. Something doesn't jive.



Use palm oil for the calculator.  I got -14% SF.


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## chachalaca (Jan 12, 2016)

Steve85569 said:


> Does this soap zap?!?
> .



What does this mean? Sorry, I'm not familiar with the language yet...


Susie said:


> you are raising your risk of DOS.
> 
> I would NOT zap test this for a LONG time.



What does DOS and zap test mean? Thank you


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## Susie (Jan 12, 2016)

DOS= Dreaded Orange Spots- soap going rancid and stinking with distinctive orange spots.
Zap test=  Touching wet finger to soap, then to tongue to see if soap is lye heavy.  Your soap IS lye heavy.  No need to test.

Acronym and abbreviation thread:  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=51841

Zap test guide:  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=30690

ETA- You really need to learn to use a lye calculator of some sort.  This is my favorite one currently:  soapee.com


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jan 13, 2016)

Did you come up with this recipe or is it from somewhere?

It's also a fairly large batch. I'd go to making 500g to 1kg batches until things are going well and you are more comfortable with soap making


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## Steve85569 (Jan 13, 2016)

Zap is a test for heavy base (lye) and from what I can tell the recipe is quite lye heavy. 
Susie got it right. I would NOT zap test that. At least not until it has cured for a long, long time.


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## Soapmaker145 (Jan 13, 2016)

You have a contaminant in your mix that is oxidizing in the presence of oxygen.  Since you didn't use an FO or a colorant, it can come from:
1- the water which may contain a number of minerals (if you didn't use deionized water)
2- the lye which can also be contaminated with minerals
3- your oils.  Oils can be extracted using a variety of methods and may be treated with a number of chemicals along the way
4-Your molds

The only way to know for sure is to run some test eliminating/replacing one ingredient at a time.  I would start with the water and line the molds with freezer paper. Then I would go down the list.


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## Susie (Jan 13, 2016)

Craig- thank you for catching that it is really large!  My math skills ... you can see smoke coming from my ears and hear the gears stripping ...


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## chachalaca (Jan 13, 2016)

*Thank you!*

Thanks to all the people who are trying to figure this out, I will test all theories and let you know what happens.

The recipe I am using is not mine, is a recipe that already existed and has a lot of problems, evidently.


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## shunt2011 (Jan 13, 2016)

chachalaca said:


> Thanks to all the people who are trying to figure this out, I will test all theories and let you know what happens.
> 
> 
> 
> The recipe I am using is not mine, is a recipe that already existed and has a lot of problems, evidently.




You need to use a soap calculator and be sure to always run a recipe through it before making soap.


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## chachalaca (Jan 13, 2016)

shunt2011 Thanks for the advice! I'll do that


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## chachalaca (Mar 5, 2016)

I want to let you all know that after a series of different tests I've come to the conclusion that it was an excess of lye probably interacting with the minerals of the water, since I used tap water. I've changed the recipe and they came out beautifully, colors look great and are quite stable. Thanks for your help


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## paillo (Mar 5, 2016)

Nice job of deducing, Craig. Tap water can contain many nasties. For example, you would never want to soap with tap water in this town. http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/03/us/st-joseph-louisiana-investigative-audit/
 Just sayin'


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## Kamahido (Mar 5, 2016)

Just my two cents, but my soaps went up in quality DRASTICALLY after I learned how to formulate my own recipes. It didn't really take that long, as most of the recipes you will find online are quite badly formulated.


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## TeresaT (Mar 5, 2016)

paillo said:


> Nice job of deducing, Craig. Tap water can contain many nasties. For example, you would never want to soap with tap water in this town. http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/03/us/st-joseph-louisiana-investigative-audit/
> Just sayin'



I'm thinking it's safer to drink the water in Mexico City than in St. Joseph.  But that's just my unscientific guess.

ETA:  Kamahido, funny you should say that.  The only epic fail soap I had was from a recipe I got either from a book or online--don't remember which.  I did run it through SoapCalc before I made it, but for some reason (and I'd have to check my notes) it never set up.  All of my soaps, except that one, have been experiments based on the benefits or qualities of a given fat or oil.  I like figuring things out on my own and then asking questions when I get stuck.  I'm definitely a "hands on" learner.


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## Dr.J (Mar 7, 2016)

chachalaca said:


> Ingredient - QTY (KG)
> Water - 0.54
> Lye - 0.25
> Soy oil - 0.533333
> ...


 
I would hypothesize that the BHT is the root cause. It and other phenolic antioxidants, when over-oxidized can form color bodies (quinones) which range from yellow to pink. Pink is especially common in alkaline environments.



cmzaha said:


> ...There are times when a high lard will do this...


 
I suspect this is for the same reason - most lards contain BHT, BHA, and/or propyl gallate for increased shelf life (all are phenolic antioxidants).

A reference about plastic (not soap), but relevant to the topic at hand (esp the paragraph directly under Fig 2):
http://www.ampacet.com/faqs/yellowing-and-pinking-white-pe-pp/


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## DeeAnna (Mar 7, 2016)

Thank you for the info, Dr J. This goes to show "the devil is in the details."


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