# Cure Times



## ShirleyHailstock (Jan 19, 2020)

I've been reading messages and blogs on cure times and mostly what I see has a maximum of six weeks. Yet, the forum messages under various titles mentions longer times. What is the time for curing? And how can you determine if you have waited long enough before using?

Thanks for the advice.


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## cmzaha (Jan 19, 2020)

I would change the maximum to a minimum of 6 weeks. My soaps are cured 8 weeks min to 1 year. I make a shea facial bar with over 50% shea which cures for a min of 6 months to make its perfect mark.


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## ShirleyHailstock (Jan 19, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> I would change the maximum to a minimum of 6 weeks. My soaps are cured 8 weeks min to 1 year. I make a shea facial bar with over 50% shea which cures for a min of 6 months to make its perfect mark.



Is this written when you buy shea? I was looking forward to 6 weeks, but I can be patient if it needs longer. I just need to know where I can find the statistics for length of time. Or is it experiment and experience?

Thanks for your reply. I'll put that in my notes file regarding shea.


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## Misschief (Jan 19, 2020)

Most of my soaps cure for a minimum of 4-6 weeks. I cure my salt bars for a minimum of 3-6 months even though they're better the longer they sit. Try doing a lather test with your soap once a week; you'll notice the difference between a short cure vs a longer cure. It will also help you figure out how long a cure your recipe needs.


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## shunt2011 (Jan 19, 2020)

It will depend on your recipe. A soap with high olive or liquid oils may need 6-12 months to be a decent bar.  However, a well balanced recipe can require 4-6 weeks or a bit longer.   I like Carolyn prefer to cure mine at least 6 weeks.


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## Obsidian (Jan 19, 2020)

It really is a matter of experience and experimentation. I cure my high lard soaps min 6 weeks but usually longer.
My salt bars on the other hand require min 6 months with 1-2 years being better.

It seems like a lot of time but after you have a few batches ready to go, the cure period for new soap just slides right by.

I make salt bars every 3 months or so, that way I always have a batch ready.


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## cmzaha (Jan 19, 2020)

ShirleyHailstock said:


> Is this written when you buy shea? I was looking forward to 6 weeks, but I can be patient if it needs longer. I just need to know where I can find the statistics for length of time. Or is it experiment and experience?
> 
> Thanks for your reply. I'll put that in my notes file regarding shea.


Experience, and it is the high amount of shea I use in one particular bar. My bars with 10% shea cure for 6 weeks which is my min preference cure time for soaps. If I end up short like I did this year I will take soaps to market at a 4 week cure but it is just not my preference to do so. I failed to mention my salt bar cure for 6-12 months preferably 1-2 yrs. Salt bars get better and better the older they get. Castile soaps (100% OO) I cure for 1 year, using Costco light Pure OO, or Pomace.


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## ShirleyHailstock (Jan 19, 2020)

Misschief said:


> Most of my soaps cure for a minimum of 4-6 weeks. I cure my salt bars for a minimum of 3-6 months even though they're better the longer they sit. Try doing a lather test with your soap once a week; you'll notice the difference between a short cure vs a longer cure. It will also help you figure out how long a cure your recipe needs.


Thank you. That is a good idea.


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## Dawni (Jan 19, 2020)

I also cure my "balanced" soaps a minimum of 8wks.... Not just coz of lather, hardness, too. Also, it more or less stops warping at that time and I can plane them if I need to sometimes.

I have a soap that has 40% combined shea, cocoa and mango. I keep forgetting to take pics of lather tests but I noticed the minimum for that soap to be what I like is 12wks. Same goes more or less for soleseifes.

I have small test pieces of each batch I make and try em weekly if not at least twice a month. You'll figure out eventually how much cure time which soap needs. 

I should note that my soaps are 90% HP.. I raaarely CP.


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## ShirleyHailstock (Jan 19, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> Experience, and it is the high amount of shea I use in one particular bar. My bars with 10% shea cure for 6 weeks which is my min preference cure time for soaps. If I end up short like I did this year I will take soaps to market at a 4 week cure but it is just not my preference to do so. I failed to mention my salt bar cure for 6-12 months preferably 1-2 yrs. Salt bars get better and better the older they get. Castile soaps (100% OO) I cure for 1 year, using Costco light Pure OO, or Pomace.


I haven't done any salt bars, but I did a 100% OO (not pomace). I'll wait longer on that one.



Dawni said:


> I also cure my "balanced" soaps a minimum of 8wks.... Not just coz of lather, hardness, too. Also, it more or less stops warping at that time and I can plane them if I need to sometimes.
> 
> I have a soap that has 40% combined shea, cocoa and mango. I keep forgetting to take pics of lather tests but I noticed the minimum for that soap to be what I like is 12wks. Same goes more or less for soleseifes.
> 
> ...


I noticed from your posts that you use HP. I only use CP at this point. I think my cure times are going to go longer. I want hard bars that lather a lot. I got into this because I bought a bar of soap after Christmas two years go from TJMAXX (a discount store in the Eastern US, not sure if it's nationwide). The soap smelled great, lathers with only a couple of turns and lasted almost 8 months. I wanted more, but it was exclusive to TJMAXX and Marshalls (another discount store). I could not buy it direct and it was hit or miss to find more. When I saw a Brambleberry guest appearance on TV, I decided to try and make my own.  The 16 bars I just made is done with oils that make a hard soap.  I think it will need to cure for months not weeks.



shunt2011 said:


> It will depend on your recipe. A soap with high olive or liquid oils may need 6-12 months to be a decent bar.  However, a well balanced recipe can require 4-6 weeks or a bit longer.   I like Carolyn prefer to cure mine at least 6 weeks.


I think I'm going to work on "well balanced" recipes. I'm not sure what this means, but I assume it's using the same type oils (balance between solid and liquid), and balance between percentages, not thing is heavy weighted in one oil.


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## Dawni (Jan 19, 2020)

I initially thought to cure my soaps longer coz, contrary to common belief, HP does not cure faster than CP and a lot of it is to do with HP using more water.

Did you manage to get the ingredients of that soap to replicate it?

Good luck!


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## ShirleyHailstock (Jan 19, 2020)

Dawni said:


> I initially thought to cure my soaps longer coz, contrary to common belief, HP does not cure faster than CP and a lot of it is to do with HP using more water.
> 
> Did you manage to get the ingredients of that soap to replicate it?
> 
> Good luck!


Yes, I used the soap calc and printed everything out. I attach the soap calc sheet to the curing soap, so I know the ingredients and proportions.


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## Dawni (Jan 19, 2020)

ShirleyHailstock said:


> Yes, I used the soap calc and printed everything out. I attach the soap calc sheet to the curing soap, so I know the ingredients and proportions.


I meant that soap from TJMAXX that you liked?


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## ShirleyHailstock (Jan 19, 2020)

Dawni said:


> I initially thought to cure my soaps longer coz, contrary to common belief, HP does not cure faster than CP and a lot of it is to do with HP using more water.
> 
> Did you manage to get the ingredients of that soap to replicate it?
> 
> Good luck!


No, I didn't. The soap was wrapped for Christmas and I didn't think to get them. I didn't know I was going to think it was different from anything I found at the local supermarket until I used it for the first time. Then I didn't know it was going to last as long as it did. As I couldn't find it again, I was lost to replicate it.


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## Dawni (Jan 19, 2020)

Awww that's too bad.. I've seen several posts here of people asking help to replicate a certain soap they liked.

I'm sure you'll make something close enough or even better over time


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## cmzaha (Jan 19, 2020)

ShirleyHailstock said:


> No, I didn't. The soap was wrapped for Christmas and I didn't think to get them. I didn't know I was going to think it was different from anything I found at the local supermarket until I used it for the first time. Then I didn't know it was going to last as long as it did. As I couldn't find it again, I was lost to replicate it.


It almost sounds like it might be a triple-milled soap which will last a lot longer than our handmade soap. Triple-milled are shredded, and many times have plasticizers added them run through roller presses. They do this process at least 3 times. This results in a very hard long lasting soap that we cannot replicate with handmade soaps.

I do have to ask why you are making batches with 72 oz of oils not knowing if you will even like the soap. You really should start with 1lb batches.


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## TheGecko (Jan 19, 2020)

ShirleyHailstock said:


> I've been reading messages and blogs on cure times and mostly what I see has a maximum of six weeks. Yet, the forum messages under various titles mentions longer times. What is the time for curing? And how can you determine if you have waited long enough before using?



Based on a number of factors...ingredients, lye concentration, time and temperature...four to six weeks is the MINIMUM amount of time you should allow your soap to cure.  Part of the curing process is allowing the moisture in your soap to evaporate which produces a harder, longer-lasting bar of soap.  My preference is for eight weeks for really no other reason than because it feels right (and it's easier for me to track).  But it's winter now and I'm in the Pacific Northwest and it's pretty damp this time of the year so I am giving my soaps 12 weeks.



> I just need to know where I can find the statistics for length of time. Or is it experiment and experience?



Experiment and experience mostly...based on experimenting and experience.  

Basic rule of thumb (from research and experience), the more soft oils you use the longer your cure time...which is why a 100% Olive Oil Soap aka Castile Soap takes a year to fully cure.  Also, your additives can affect how your soap cures...an example of this are salt soaps which do better with a longer cure time, somewhere around six months.



> I noticed from your posts that you use HP. I only use CP at this point. I think my cure times are going to go longer. I want hard bars that lather a lot. I got into this because I bought a bar of soap after Christmas two years go from TJMAXX (a discount store in the Eastern US, not sure if it's nationwide).



The cure time for HP is probably longer than for CP because HP requires more liquid.  A lot of folks think that HP is ready to go after it's unmolded...and it kind of is, CP can also be used out of the mold too, but you won't have a good, quality soap in either case.  Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but IMHO, the biggest difference between HP and CP is the saponification process.  In HP soap, the saponification process is taking place while you a 'cooking' the soap...about two to three hours.  In CP soap, while the saponification process starts as soon as you add lye to fats, once it's poured in the mold it takes 18 to 24 hours to complete.

Pacific Northwest...we have both stores here.  I got into soap making because of Black Raspberry Vanilla Goat Milk Soap; bought it only for quite a few years and then the lady retired and no more soap for me.



> I think I'm going to work on "well balanced" recipes. I'm not sure what this means, but I assume it's using the same type oils (balance between solid and liquid), and balance between percentages, not thing is heavy weighted in one oil.



A "well-balanced" bar of soap is one that is hard and long-lasting, gets you clean, doesn't dry out your skin, produces a nice lather and is soft and silky (creamy) feeling.  And there are many ways to achieve it.  For myself that is Olive, Coconut, Palm and Castor Oils, Cocoa and Shea Butters, and a little Sodium Lactate and Kaolin Clay.   For someone else, it could be Olive, Coconut, Palm, Sweet Almond and Castor Oils.  For someone else, that could mean adding powdered milks and Tusah Silk and the list goes on.

Two things I forgot to add:

1) Always run your recipe through a Soap Calculator

2) Soap making is exciting, ruining a batch is not.  So start small, with 8o z and 16 oz of oils


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## ShirleyHailstock (Jan 19, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> It almost sounds like it might be a triple-milled soap which will last a lot longer than our handmade soap. Triple-milled are shredded, and many times have plasticizers added them run through roller presses. They do this process at least 3 times. This results in a very hard long lasting soap that we cannot replicate with handmade soaps.
> 
> I do have to ask why you are making batches with 72 oz of oils not knowing if you will even like the soap. You really should start with 1lb batches.


It was due to family asking for soap when they saw the first few batches I made. The 16 bars produced by the 72 oz won't be enough for all those who want it, but I have others from smaller batches.  The process didn't take that long and it's come out looking great. It's curing now and the room smells so good. From what I've read here, my batches will be smaller.


I just read up on triple-milled soap and I think you might be right. Although that is very disappointing. I wanted to reproduce that soap and have it lather and last. I have one more bar, although I threw the wrapper out. I keep soap in a huge brandy sniper in the bathroom. It makes the place smell so good.


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## Primrose (Jan 20, 2020)

ShirleyHailstock said:


> I just read up on triple-milled soap and I think you might be right. Although that is very disappointing. I wanted to reproduce that soap and have it lather and last. I have one more bar, although I threw the wrapper out. I keep soap in a huge brandy sniper in the bathroom. It makes the place smell so good.



I was going to say, if you expect any of your handmade soaps to last 8 months I think you will be disappointed and I think that bar was a commercially made soap.


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## bookreader451 (Jan 20, 2020)

I started making soap last August and I began giving away bars in November/December.  I experiment with different combinations of oils and keep a bowl of testers by my sink.

My first batches had more soft oils and the lather on those was thin and pathetic until about the 4 month mark.  Some of my more recent recipes have nice lather at about the two month mark.    I have a lard and sweet almond oil that cures nicely in about 6 weeks, while any HP I make seems to takes much longer as I superfat with shea and use more liquid.

None of the bars I have used last like a triple milled soap.  I have Penhaligon's bars that last forever.

Unfortunately, nothing can be done but wait.  It stinks, especially if you are just starting out and you want soooooo badly to use your soap.  My way around that is my testers, that way I can try batches whenever I want, and see how the soap is progressing.


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## ShirleyHailstock (Jan 20, 2020)

Primrose said:


> I was going to say, if you expect any of your handmade soaps to last 8 months I think you will be disappointed and I think that bar was a commercially made soap.


I agree, now that I read a comment about triple milled soaps. The next time I'm in one of those stores, I'm going to see if I can find the manufacturer and read up on their products. It might tell me. The soap was $4.00 USD a bar. The bars are 4 x 2 x 1 inches. They smell great, lather quickly and last a lifetime.

Now that I've made a few batches of my own, I love this process. So I'll probably make some for family, some for gifts and some for myself. If nothing else, the curing room smells great.



bookreader451 said:


> I started making soap last August and I began giving away bars in November/December.  I experiment with different combinations of oils and keep a bowl of testers by my sink.
> 
> My first batches had more soft oils and the lather on those was thin and pathetic until about the 4 month mark.  Some of my more recent recipes have nice lather at about the two month mark.    I have a lard and sweet almond oil that cures nicely in about 6 weeks, while any HP I make seems to takes much longer as I superfat with shea and use more liquid.
> 
> ...


Good plan and I will try this. More people than you have suggested I do that to test the lather and curing process. I'm also very patient and waiting is not a problem. I have other work to do, deadlines to make (I write and books are always due). I go smell the soap every now and then. The "unofficial" rule of the longer the cure, the better, is OK with me.


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## ShirleyHailstock (Jan 21, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> It almost sounds like it might be a triple-milled soap which will last a lot longer than our handmade soap. Triple-milled are shredded, and many times have plasticizers added them run through roller presses. They do this process at least 3 times. This results in a very hard long lasting soap that we cannot replicate with handmade soaps.
> 
> I do have to ask why you are making batches with 72 oz of oils not knowing if you will even like the soap. You really should start with 1lb batches.


I went back to the store today and looked at all the soaps. Some had triple-milled right on the packaging. Others did not, but felt as hard as the milled one. I bought a few that were on sale for $1.00 or $2.00 because they smelled so good. One is from Italy (totally vegan) and one is from France. The ingredients on the labels are long and all begin with Sodium Palmate.


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## cmzaha (Jan 21, 2020)

TheGecko said:


> Based on a number of factors...ingredients, lye concentration, time and temperature...four to six weeks is the MINIMUM amount of time you should allow your soap to cure.  Part of the curing process is allowing the moisture in your soap to evaporate which produces a harder, longer-lasting bar of soap.
> 
> The cure time for HP is probably longer than for CP because HP requires more liquid.  A lot of folks think that HP is ready to go after it's unmolded...and it kind of is, CP can also be used out of the mold too, but you won't have a good, quality soap in either case.  Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but IMHO, the biggest difference between HP and CP is the saponification process.  In HP soap, the saponification process is taking place while you a 'cooking' the soap...about two to three hours.  In CP soap, while the saponification process starts as soon as you add lye to fats, once it's poured in the mold it takes 18 to 24 hours to complete.
> 
> A "well-balanced" bar of soap is one that is hard and long-lasting, gets you clean, doesn't dry out your skin, produces a nice lather and is soft and silky (creamy) feeling.  And there are many ways to achieve it.  For myself that is Olive, Coconut, Palm and Castor Oils, Cocoa and Shea Butters, and a little Sodium Lactate and Kaolin Clay.   For someone else, it could be Olive, Coconut, Palm, Sweet Almond and Castor Oils.  For someone else, that could mean adding powdered milks and Tusah Silk and the list goes on.


Cure time also involves the soap forming its crystalline structure inside making for a harder longer lasting soap, it is not just the evaporation of water.
Saponification can actually take up to 72 hrs if cp soap is poured at a thin trace.
For me, a well balanced bar includes Sunflower HO, Canola HO or Avocado oil, not Olive oil, with palm or tallow/lard combo, cocoa butter and or shea butter in some. We are all different when it comes to well balanced bars. In other words, I hate OO in soap.

As for long cure time with salt bars, it is not mandatory, but they will lather much better and become milder. Pure OO bars will be a little less snotty and lather better after a long cure. Sorry Zany, but I did not have any luck with her no slime recipe.


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## Arimara (Jan 21, 2020)

Dawni said:


> I also cure my "balanced" soaps a minimum of 8wks.... Not just coz of lather, hardness, too. Also, it more or less stops warping at that time and I can plane them if I need to sometimes.
> 
> I have a soap that has 40% combined shea, cocoa and mango. I keep forgetting to take pics of lather tests but I noticed the minimum for that soap to be what I like is 12wks. Same goes more or less for soleseifes.
> 
> ...


Wait til that soap is cured for even longer. You might really like it then. but don't stress the pics.


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## Dblondi03 (Feb 5, 2021)

Will adding castor oil make the bar harder with 4-6 weeks of curing time?


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## TheGecko (Feb 5, 2021)

Dblondi03 said:


> Will adding castor oil make the bar harder with 4-6 weeks of curing time?



No. In fact, depending on your recipe, too much Castor Oil can make the bar softer and sticky. You can add salt to harden your bar, but too much is no good either. And a physically harder bar of soap isn't necessarily a better bar of soap. 

The simple fact is, there is just no getting around the time it takes to cure your soap.  And there is more to curing your soap than water evaporation.  There are things going on with your soap at a molecular level that makes for a better bar of soap (@DeeAnna can explain it better).  I usually do a 6 to 8 week cure time for my soap and plan accordingly.


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## GemstonePony (Feb 5, 2021)

Dblondi03 said:


> Will adding castor oil make the bar harder with 4-6 weeks of curing time?


Castor generally makes soap more soluble, so adding it for hardening purposes is not a good plan. There are a lot of reasons to add castor oil, but hardening and longevity are none of them.
You've told us nothing of your formula or process, so we have no possible way of estimating a minimum expected cure time. Even if we did, they would be just those: estimates and minimums. Even with similar recipes, some batches will take longer than others, and there is no substitute for experience over time when it comes to judging that.


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## Dblondi03 (Feb 6, 2021)

Oh ok, the reason I asked is because I made a batch with more castor oil than usual and by the time i had it in the mold it got so hard right away I had no chance of swirling the top


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## AliOop (Feb 6, 2021)

That's probably because castor oil speeds up trace, so the batter thickened and firmed up faster. But that doesn't translate into a hard bar after curing. Two different things. Also know that hardness does not equal longevity, either.

Coconut oil traces really fast, hardens fast in the mold, and feels hard to the touch. But it is very soluble in water, so it melts away quickly with use, and thus is low on longevity despite being hard.


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## Lynn55 (Jun 30, 2022)

TheGecko said:


> Based on a number of factors...ingredients, lye concentration, time and temperature...four to six weeks is the MINIMUM amount of time you should allow your soap to cure.  Part of the curing process is allowing the moisture in your soap to evaporate which produces a harder, longer-lasting bar of soap.  My preference is for eight weeks for really no other reason than because it feels right (and it's easier for me to track).  But it's winter now and I'm in the Pacific Northwest and it's pretty damp this time of the year so I am giving my soaps 12 weeks.
> 
> Experiment and experience mostly...based on experimenting and experience.
> 
> ...


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