# Local & Sustainable Soaps



## foxandmonkey (Sep 26, 2014)

Hello all,

First post here and brand new to soapmaking. I imagine based on what I have read so far that this is likely my next obsession, to go along with sourdough bread making and a few others! I'm trying to read as much as possible without asking questions that have likely been asked and answered time and time again but I do have one specific to using local ingredients. I know that oils such as olive and coconut are very well regarded for soap making, but unfortunately coconuts and olives don't grow in the UK! Part of the reason I want to start making my own soaps (and other body products) is to live not only more naturally, but also more sustainably. 

Now both lard and tallow are readily available here and I like the idea of using what are quite often waste products in soap. Other oils which can be locally sourced include rapeseed oil (we have some really nice cold pressed extra virgin ones too), hemp seed oil, linseed oil and borage seed oil. Essential oils get a bit more tricky but, based on the minute amounts used compared to base oils, I think that locally sourced is less important. (I do a lot of cooking and try to buy all my produce locally but spices obviously can't be). That being said, perhaps doing infusions of locally grown herbs in the oils could replace the use of imported essential oils? I have also heard that ground horse chestnuts make for a nice exfoliant to add.

Does anyone have any experience using these ingredients (or others) for 'local soap'? Would be interested to know if people have any recipes I could try of general guidance to percentages for these oils etc. Also any thoughts or ideas for other ingredients that are local to SW England / Wales for scent, lather, preserving, exfoliation or other.

Thank you in advance.

Best Regards,

James (Monkey)


----------



## dixiedragon (Sep 26, 2014)

Olive oil and coconut oil are the "dynamic duo" of soap making. Palm kernel oil can be a good substitute for  coconut, but since palms also don't grow in England that doesn't help you. You can make a good soap with just lard or just tallow - it won't be as bubbly as one with olive and coconut, and there's really no way around that. One option might be rice bran oil - no idea of there is rice farming in the UK.

Rapeseed - many soapers strongly advise against it. It's very prone to spoiling, and IMO it's just a cheap filler oil with no real value. 

You can infuse your oils with locally-grown herbs if you'd like. But you won't get any scent out of it. You simply can't get enough of the scent into your oil.

Finely-ground oats make a nice exfolliant. Calendula petals hold their color in soap.


----------



## foxandmonkey (Sep 26, 2014)

The rapeseed oil I am talking about isn't like the kind of rapeseed oil I encountered when I used to live in the US. Here this is non-GMO, organically grown and I use the first cold press extra virgin variety in much of my cooking. It's nuttier than extra virgin olive oil and not as 'peppery' but generally is less bitter as well. It is high in Omega 3 and Vitamin E. This is definitely not inferior 'filler oil'. The brand I buy is called Cotswold Gold am not sure if I can put links in here but you can Google it to learn more about it!


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Sep 26, 2014)

What an oil or fat is like outside of soap does not translate in to the soap itself, except for the superfat.  It doesn't matter if it is so high in Omega 3 that they actually call it "Omega 300", what really matters is what the saponified oil adds to the soap.  So, for example, coconut oil adds some physical hardness and bubbles to the bar, whereas lard adds a creamy conditioning feel to the soap.  

Rapeseed adds a lot of creaminess but very little of anything else, hence the view of it as a filler - from a soaping point of view, it's bringing very little to the party and just taking up space that could be used by an oil that has more properties that you are looking for in a soap.

A good tip is to look at the oil properties in a lye calculator such as soap calc.

Some oils are also rather prone to spoilage, at least when used in soap.  This also needs to be considered.  I don't know how rapeseed holds up on that.  

That said, my palm-product is a shortening that is 80:20 palm:rapeseed and I have no spoilage, but then it is just a small amount in my soaps.


----------



## Seawolfe (Sep 26, 2014)

Lard and tallow make lovely soap, if the lather is a bit unimpressive - perhaps sugar would help with that. I adore hemp oil in my soaps, but no more than 20%, and it is one oil that can contribute to rancidity and DOS. Here is one (of many) lists of oils and their properties in soap. Apparently Borage is another one prone to DOS, but linseed oil (which apparently is also known as flaxseed oil) seems a useful choice. If you can get castor oil that would help a lot.

I have 2 friends who have made 100% lard soaps, both report that after a longish cure (8 weeks or more) they are quite nice. One lives in the countryside in China, so hes just thrilled to have a way to use up all the lard and some good cheap soap.

People new to soap making are often appalled at the large amounts of EO's needed to scent a batch of CP soap. Lye is a great feeder on scents. You can use less EOs if you hot process your soap, but I have never heard of home-made infusions leaving any scent after a few weeks of cure. However many people use herbs from their garden to add color or exfoliation - here is one thread that discusses that.

Ground chestnuts sound nice, but I've never tried them. In soap, you want the additions to dry out well during the cure or they will rot, but on the other hand sharp dried bits can be hugely scratchy, so you need to find the happy middle. Oh and the lye and reaction can darken or even blacken some herbs or flowers, so there's that too.


----------



## foxandmonkey (Sep 26, 2014)

Interesting. So looking further at some soap calcs it seems that cleansing and bubbles are both considerably higher with sheep or goat tallow vs. beef. Also that list of oils contains canola which is GM rapeseed but not standard rapeseed (not sure about the acid content differences here). Both duck and goose fat seem to have somewhat higher hardness and conditioning (but not as much as coconut for hardness and olive for conditioning. Additionally beeswax seems to have very high hardness and reasonably high conditioning. 

So am thinking of a recipe using beeswax as primary base with beef and sheep tallow, rapeseed oil and hemp oil in decreasing percentages. To boost the lather and cleansing I could substitute some of the water for milk fat. 

Thoughts?


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Sep 26, 2014)

Alas no, no beeswax base.  More than a low amount will make a terrible soap, but many people won't even use any at all.

Please post a whole recipe so people can give it a once over.  You're going out from the envelope by a wide margin so it won't be too easy to do.  

Have a look at a soap with the following:

20% CO
50% Lard
40% OO

Then look at other oils that can work to these sorts of numbers and post the recipe here and we'll have a looksee


----------



## dixiedragon (Sep 26, 2014)

I use beeswax at 5% sometimes. I like the color it adds. You can also use honey, about 1 tablespoon per pound of oil. If you use honey and beeswax, you can get a soft sweet honey scent that's nice. Not very strong, but nice.

You are trying to do something very different, which is cool. But I think you're going to have to do a lot of experimenting!

Sunflower oil would be a nice addition.


----------



## foxandmonkey (Sep 26, 2014)

Ok so a lot of calculations and have come up with a starting point I think. Please let me know if I'm on the right track:

50% Sheep Tallow
25% Milk Fat
15% Hemp Oil
10% Rapeseed Oil

This gives me:
41 Hardness
11 Cleansing
44 Condition
11 Bubbles
30 Creamy
70 Iodine
139 INS

Ideally cleansing, condition and bubbles should all be a bit higher and it could do with being a bit harder as well I am guessing.


----------



## dixiedragon (Sep 26, 2014)

I'm not even sure where you can get milk fat, unless that means butter or cream? I don't think that much dairy in your soap is a good idea.

Re: sheep fat - do you have a source for that? Are you going to have to render your own?

Here in the US, you can buy lard at the store, in the baking aisle. You said your brand new to soap making, so I'm assuming you've never made soap before? Just buy a container of lard, do a small batch of 100% lard soap, and see if you like it. Right now you're playing with numbers on soapcalc, which is fun, but you have no actual experience with the end product.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Sep 26, 2014)

You could add in 2 tblsp Sodium lactate per kg of oils for some hardness.  Also the same amount of sugar per kg of oils to up the bubblage.

The one that bothers me here is the milk fat.  I think it is literally the fat part of the milk, which even in full fat milk is a lousy 4%.  Hopefully the soapers who are more in to milks in soaps can set the record straight, but I think that if you wanted to make a 1kg batch you would need 250g milk fat.  I think that is a lot (lot!) more than 250g of milk


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Sep 26, 2014)

I put in the following:

50% Sheep Tallow
25% Lard
15% Hemp
10% Rapeseed

Gives you

Hardness	                 39
Cleansing	                 8
Conditioning               47
Bubbly                       8
Creamy                     32
Iodine                       70
INS	                        39

Someone did say that you could make a good soap, which is very true.  Compared to commercial soaps it will be like a warm beer on a rainy day.  But you will be limited in getting to a stunning soap by the choice of oils


----------



## Seawolfe (Sep 26, 2014)

If I am not mistaken, milk fat is clarified butter - or ghee - all the fat and none of the milk. Is that what you were planning to use? 
There is a recent thread around here by people who have used butter in the soap and they found the smell objectionable.

As far as your recipe - cleansing and conditioning are both lowish, but I have learned that the recommendations on the calculators are just that - recommendations. I've made a perfectly decent soap with a cleansing value of 1. Best thing is to make a batch and see how you like it. If you want more bubbles, you can stir some honey into the water before you add the lye - maybe start with 2 small tsp per kilo of oils.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Sep 26, 2014)

dixiedragon said:


> ..............Right now you're playing with numbers on soapcalc, which is fun, but you have no actual experience with the end product.



Dixie is actually spot on - make a few small batches and see what you think.  Refining a recipe is much easier when you can feel the properties


----------



## foxandmonkey (Sep 26, 2014)

I was basing the milk fat on heavy cream which from a local organic dairy is about 40% fat. I have seen goats milk soap recipes at about 25% total weight of oils. Yes you are correct this is all numbers and I have yet to make a batch but local ingredients are very important to me so I want to get a good starting point before I start. I am a sourdough bread baker and an engineer by trade so the numbers are crucial for me to get my head around first. And yes I can source any type of tallow/lard locally.


----------



## foxandmonkey (Sep 26, 2014)

Oh and Effy "Warm beer on a rainy day" is ALL English beer on ANY English day!


----------



## dixiedragon (Sep 26, 2014)

Once you've got some experience, you could make soap with beer or wine from local breweries/wineries. I've never made these, but one poster used the beer from a local brewery, and also the solid mixture left over after the beer was finished - I guess it was a mixture of grain, hops, etc? These are all possibilities, but you really need to make a few successful batches with just the basics. 

Lavender essential oil might be an option:
http://www.norfolk-lavender.co.uk/

OMG I so want to visit this place!

Some other optional additives include carrots (for an orange color), clay and barley.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Sep 26, 2014)

I'm popping over to see the family in Swindon next week, looking forward to a good pint of bitter with fish chips and mushy peas 

There are lots of local ingredients that would be interesting to incorporate in to your soaps, that is for certain


----------



## foxandmonkey (Sep 27, 2014)

The spent beer grain sounds fascinating. So is it dried and ground up into the soap? What are the benefits?


----------



## Birdie Wife (Sep 27, 2014)

I use local supplies whenever possible, you could probably call it my USP! I found a good base mix that works for me is Olive oil, lard (or tallow, which I render from beef fat supplied by the local butcher), coconut oil and castor oil. Local additives include dried seaweed, oatmeal, honey, bog myrtle, powdered nettles, powdered dandelions,  carrot juice, organic milk.


----------



## lionprincess00 (Sep 27, 2014)

I was confused when I started regarding milk fat and the soap calc. I then learned, you don't calculate milk, cream, rice milk, almond milk, coconut milk, or goat's milk in the 'milk any bovine' oil/fat part of the calculator. You only calculate the fats and oils and or butters. You then _replace_ the water amount, all or a portion, with the milk of your choice. It does automatically up the total fat/superfat, but it won't be calculated on the soapcalc because it was the "water amount". 
I have read hemp seed and especially rapseed oils are prone to dos and rancidity. Hemp seed, I've seen, 5% is a good amount. Tallow and lard with no cleansing oil like coconut or babassau will make a creamy no cleansing soap. It is recommended to have one cleansing oil to help the soap, well, clean 
I'd recommends 
Coconut 20%
Lard _or_ tallow 40%
Olive or rice bran or sweet almond oil, all great shelf life, 35%
And hemp seed if you want it 5%

With olive and lard read as 
Hardness
Cleansing
Conditioning
Bubbles
Creamy 

39
14
56
14
25

With olive and sheep tallow
43
19
48
19
24
*I've read beef tallow performs the best of the tallows

I'd try heavy cream like this, refrigerate half the required water amount as cream. Lye into half the water. Into the oils, stick blend two short pulses, add the cold cream, blend to trace. Keep a large bowl filled with ice and a tad water next to you so if it starts to over heat, put the soap bowl into the ice water bowl to cool until you're done. It'll keep it cool and creamy.


----------



## dixiedragon (Sep 28, 2014)

foxandmonkey said:


> The spent beer grain sounds fascinating. So is it dried and ground up into the soap? What are the benefits?



Google "soap making forum" and "beer soap" and you'll see some threads about it. I've never done it, so I can't really advise you. I think the spent grains add a gentle scrubbing effect - much like oatmeal or barley. I don't know that they even need to be dried.

Re: adding sugar for lather. I'm pretty sure that sugar isn't a local product, but you may be able to use honey instead.

Re: cleansing. It's true that an all-lard or all-tallow soap (no coconut), won't be as cleansing. But unless you are trying to wash dishes with it, or trying to remove heavy-duty grime, it will be plenty cleansing enough. I think "cleansing" refers to the ability to break down oil.


----------

