# Questions regarding a lotion bar.



## PrimDawg (Jun 6, 2017)

So we've made about 8 batches of lotion bars and in shower lotion bars. With help from folks here, we have learned much and had a lot of fun. I will post some pics tomorrow of our latest attempts.
So, like I'm guessing many of you did, I gave away a bunch of our bars for fun and to get opinions. I was showing the bars to my "other" son, (not really my son, but should be) and he ran out to his car to show me a bar he uses in his rock climbing adventures. He loves this bar and he and all his climbing buddies swear by it being super healing and helpful. His only complaint is that a 1oz bar costs $10! He asked if I could try to make him something similar, so I'm going to try. The ingredients are as follows, in this order.
Unrefined yellow beeswax, apricot kernel oil, lavender oil, grape seed oil, wheat germ oil, essential oils-lemon and neroli and vitamin e. The other option is all the same ingredients except the oils are cedar wood and frankincense. 
Nothing about these ingredients seems particularly magical, but those who are more knowledgeable about the oils may be able to inform. 
So this bar comes in a tin and is hard enough that it can be tipped out of the tin and rubbed on cuts or chapped skin. 
I would think some butter of some sort would be of benefit but I'm willing to try just the beeswax and some oils. 
Would anyone like to hazard a guess at how much wax vs oil I should try the first time? 
Thanks all. 
Annette


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## Susie (Jun 6, 2017)

I am going to admit that my memory failed me for the correct proportions, but there is an active thread about lip balms that I remembered that IrishLass posted her "formula" for lip balm, and I remembered my tweak on that recipe for a lotion bar.  Here is the thread:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=63078&highlight=balm

Here is my tweak:

30% beeswax
25% solid at room temperature oils-like CO or lard
15% hard/brittle butters
30% liquid at room temperature oils

You can substitute any oils/butters you like.  To adjust the firmness, add a tiny bit of either beeswax or liquid at room temperature oils.  Be sure to write down your recipe!


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## IrishLass (Jun 7, 2017)

The starting ratios for a typical, 'basic' lotion bar (according to Susan Barclay, aka SwiftCraftyMonkey) are 33% beeswax, 33% butter and 34% oil, which can be tweaked to one's liking to make them harder or softer. 

The bar your "other" son likes has no butters in it, but you said it is hard enough that it can be tipped out of its tin, so I'm thinking you'd more than likely need more than the typical 33% beeswax.

I was able to find the actual product on Amazon. Wow- very expensive indeed- probably due to the essential oils (maybe they are using YoungLife or DoTerra oils which are akin to highway robbery).

I found it interesting that the lavender augustafolia (essential oil of lavender) was listed as the 3rd ingredient, coming before the grapeseed oil and wheatgerm oil. For what it's worth, the IFRA maximum safe usage rate for dermal exposure with lavender angustifolia is 5% of your formulation. 

Hopefully the lemon EO they use is the distilled type as opposed to the expressed type. My Essential Oil Safety book says that the expressed type is phototoxic and its max dermal usage rate is 2%. If used over that amount, the skin should not be exposed to sunlight or sunbed rays for 12 hours. In comparison, the distilled type is non-phototoxic and has a max dermal use level of 20%. 

Neroli EO is non-phototoxic and generally safe. My Essential Oil Safety book doesn't list any hazards or contraindications for it. You probably wouldn't want to use a lot of it, though, if the lotion bar will be used by guys.....unless they don't mind the floral orange blossom scent.

If it were me, I would experiment with a 1 oz. batch and start with about 35% beeswax and tweak from there. 


IrishLass


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## BattleGnome (Jun 7, 2017)

These numbers are based on the replies already in this thread. Using IL's findings and assuming PD listed the oils in INCI order (as in copied from paper not from memory)

Listed as percentages using the 35% beeswax IL suggested:
Beeswax 35
Apricot kernel oil 46
Lavender 5
Grape seed oil 4
Wheat germ oil 4
Lemon EO 2
Neroli EO 2
Vitamin E 2

Based on that I'd almost start with 50% beeswax and 31% apricot kernel oil to keep the ingredients in proper INCI order. 
The reasoning for the estimation is INCI rules that you list in decreasing order. If lavender is used at a max 5% and "G" comes before "L" in the alphabet the the grape seed oil and wheat germ oil have to be at less than 5%. Same alphabet reasoning if lemon EO is at max 2%. 

Seems like a ton of beeswax to me, but I've never been real rock climbing (I used the rock wall in high school).


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## PrimDawg (Jun 7, 2017)

Thanks so, so much. I will have to look into the essential oils book, it sounds very useful!
So do y'all see anything in those ingredients that is particularly healing? I'm thinking the beeswax is the most healing and the rest is just there? A placebo effect maybe? I'm still such a newb that I'm not up on what products are best for different hoped for outcomes.  
The option with cedarwood and frankincense is what I may try first. 
Here's a pic he sent me the other day, you can see why his hands would need some healing help.


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## dixiedragon (Jun 7, 2017)

I find it interesting that lavender oil is listed separately and is not called lavender essential oil. Usually "lavender oil" is lavender EO in some kind of base oil - like sweet almond oil or even mineral oil. IMO the beeswax is more protective than healing - I would wager it forms a protective barrier while the other oils penetrate and sooth. And Vitamin E is also very healing to skin.

Do you have more rock climbing pics? You know...to help with the lotion recipe?


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## PrimDawg (Jun 7, 2017)

dixiedragon said:


> Do you have more rock climbing pics? You know...to help with the lotion recipe?



LOL, he's a cutie for sure. I've known him since he was in first grade, his older brother and my son were best friends. I fell in love with both boys and as their mother was out of the picture and just took to treating them as mine. He just broke up with his girlfriend so is really getting into climbing which terrifies me as he knows! 
He's also a runner.


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## dixiedragon (Jun 7, 2017)

And he likes dogs!


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## IrishLass (Jun 7, 2017)

dixiedragon said:


> I find it interesting that lavender oil is listed separately and is not called lavender essential oil. Usually "lavender oil" is lavender EO in some kind of base oil - like sweet almond oil or even mineral oil.


 
The ingredient list of the actual product (on Amazon) lists it as "lavender angustifolia (essential oil of lavender) ". But it is still interesting that they word it ever so slightly differently than the other EOs on the list. Here's a link to the actual product on Amazon. You'll need to scroll down aways to see the ingredients listing at the end of the Product Description section.

According to what I've read in my Essential Oil Safety book by Tisserand/Young, lemon oil is mainly used for flavoring or for scent. It didn't list it as having any therapeutic benefits, but then again, that's not the focus of the book, which concentrates on all the constituents that make up each EO and their safe usage levels. However, for what it's worth, one of my aromatherapy books (by Purchon/Cantele) lists lemon oil as having anti-bacterial and fever-lowering properties, as well as having the ability to help stop external bleeding such as from nosebleeds and wounds. 

My same aromatherapy book lists neroli as a calming oil that also exhibits certain anti-bacterial and anti-fungal properties.

Lavender eo is good for all kinds of things. According to that same aromatherapy book, it's pretty much a jack of all trades (my words, not theirs). Among several other listed properties in the book, it also says it has anti-septic, anti-bacterial, anti-viral properties, and is good for healing wounds, boils, pimples, insect bites, stings, bruises, burns, scalds, etc.... This is purely anecdotal, but for what it's worth, lavender eo has personally helped me with scalds and also insect bites.


IrishLass


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## WeaversPort (Jun 8, 2017)

I don't see anything magical in the bar either, even though lavender is pretty awesome. You might see about doing some testing with two different batches - one using rice bran oil instead of apricot oil. It is great for skin and fairly shelf stable. 

Knowing climbers, they want things that will heal and protect, but specifically NOT soften skin. Otherwise they lose their calluses and that's a no-no. A high, unrefined beeswax, paired with low oils, and oils that are more about slip than moisturizing would make sense. It's pretty much a hardened salve instead of a lotion bar.


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## dixiedragon (Jun 8, 2017)

Is this product used before or after the climb? I'm wondering if the beeswax - a product that will stay on top of the skin and not be slippery, vs an oil that would be slippery or absorbed - is applied before hand to provide some protection while climbing?


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## PrimDawg (Jun 8, 2017)

From what I gather, they use this after climbing and between climbs to heal and soothe.



WeaversPort said:


> I don't see anything magical in the bar either, even though lavender is pretty awesome. You might see about doing some testing with two different batches - one using rice bran oil instead of apricot oil. It is great for skin and fairly shelf stable.
> 
> Knowing climbers, they want things that will heal and protect, but specifically NOT soften skin. Otherwise they lose their calluses and that's a no-no. A high, unrefined beeswax, paired with low oils, and oils that are more about slip than moisturizing would make sense. It's pretty much a hardened salve instead of a lotion bar.



Thanks for the help, oddly enough I saw a similar product with rice bran oil and was curious about the difference. I will try a batch like you suggested.  
Hardened Salve is a perfect description.


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## WeaversPort (Jun 8, 2017)

PrimDawg said:


> Thanks for the help, oddly enough I saw a similar product with rice bran oil and was curious about the difference. I will try a batch like you suggested.
> Hardened Salve is a perfect description.



You're welcome! 

Let us know how it goes! I have a few climbing friends and I'm curious if they've ever tried something like it! It might be a perfect Christmas present for some of them.


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## Flutter (Jun 11, 2017)

Looking for something to add to make the bar more healing; I love tamanu oil for healing.


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## Soapmaker145 (Jun 12, 2017)

If you decide to test different oils, I would suggest adding fractionated coconut oil, avocado or macademia, hazelnut, Kukui and some cera bellina on top of the beeswax.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jun 12, 2017)

Flutter said:


> Looking for something to add to make the bar more healing; I love tamanu oil for healing.



Tamanu is neat stuff, but I can't imagine what it would smell like with lavender.  It's definitely got its own, strong smell.


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## Flutter (Jun 12, 2017)

BrewerGeorge said:


> Tamanu is neat stuff, but I can't imagine what it would smell like with lavender. It's definitely got its own, strong smell.


It does have a unique smell, but you don't need a lot to get the benefits from it.

I make a foot balm with tamanu, peppermint and lavender; it has an almost mapley sent with a hints from the peppermint and lavender.


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## Nevada (Jun 12, 2017)

Lanolin, EVOO, Castor, Shea Butter are my go to oils for serious skin care.


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## Zing (Nov 27, 2018)

This post is old but I'm excited to find it.  I want to make this specific salve for my rock-climbing sons -- who swear by this product -- for Christmas.  Thanks all for this!  @PrimDawg , did you ever try the proportions listed by @BattleGnome , and if so, how did it turn out?  I literally just came home from the store with these exact ingredients, so excited to find this thread!


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## SoaperForLife (Nov 28, 2018)

This might shed some light on the benefits of the balm for climbing https://www.99boulders.com/best-climbing-salves


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