# Thickening LS experiment #1



## Justcallmewillie (Aug 31, 2021)

Had 16oz left over LS I made the other day and also found some methylcellulose in the cabinet while looking for something. Let’s see what that does in LS I said  
To room temperature  LS, I sprinkled in about 1.5tsp methylcellulose then stirred lightly to avoid foam.
Ended up adding .5tsp more methylcellulose then heated a little. Now I have a thick clear gravy.  If anyone tries this and gets chunks, strain the soap and go on. Just curious to see if it works and it does in case anyone is interested


----------



## Tara_H (Aug 31, 2021)

Justcallmewillie said:


> Had 16oz left over LS I made the other day and also found some methylcellulose in the cabinet while looking for something. Let’s see what that does in LS I said
> To room temperature  LS, I sprinkled in about 1.5tsp methylcellulose then stirred lightly to avoid foam.
> Ended up adding .5tsp more methylcellulose then heated a little. Now I have a thick clear gravy.  If anyone tries this and gets chunks, strain the soap and go on. Just curious to see if it works and it does in case anyone is interested


I tried something similar a while back.  Would be very interested to see how yours turns out; after a week or so mine was very determined to be a layer of rather thick gel with the remainder of the liquid soap sitting on top and not getting involved in the whole business...


----------



## Justcallmewillie (Aug 31, 2021)

Tara_H said:


> I tried something similar a while back.  Would be very interested to see how yours turns out; after a week or so mine was very determined to be a layer of rather thick gel with the remainder of the liquid soap sitting on top and not getting involved in the whole business...


I didn’t have issues until the stuff was heated snd then added .5 tsp more MC and a 1/16 tsp sea salt. When I did that I got white chunks. Strainer was old snd got some crap from that but for now, it’s holding well. Thick but not gelatinous jelly


----------



## Justcallmewillie (Aug 31, 2021)

I’ll keep you posted @Tara_H as to what happens a week or so from now.


----------



## Kcryss (Aug 31, 2021)

Here's a link on how to use HEC to thicken liquid soap:


----------



## Justcallmewillie (Aug 31, 2021)

I don’t have HEC @Kcryss .  The link turned black when I tapped it. Very runny soap doesn’t bother me yet some friends wanted it a little thicker like commercial soap. The experiment did work and only time will tell as for how long and sturdy it turns out


----------



## Kcryss (Aug 31, 2021)

Justcallmewillie said:


> I don’t have HEC @Kcryss . The link turned black when I tapped it.


ohhh ... lol. My mistake. Well, in that case, I would be interested in the results as well. I have used xanthan gum and arrowroot. Both work to thicken the soap as well.

Not sure why the link didn't work. I'll try again if anyone wants it Alaiyna B. Bath and Body: Thickening liquid soap with Hydroxyethel Cellulose (HEC) - Method 1


----------



## AliOop (Aug 31, 2021)

Kcryss said:


> I have used xanthan gum and arrowroot. Both work to thicken the soap as well.


Would you be willing to share how you thicken with either or both of those? My results were less than stellar. I did recently learn that glycerin is better than water for initially dissolving xanthan, so that was going to be my next try.


----------



## Kcryss (Aug 31, 2021)

AliOop said:


> Would you be willing to share how you thicken with either or both of those? My results were less than stellar. I did recently learn that glycerin is better than water for initially dissolving xanthan, so that was going to be my next try.


I don't mind at all. However, it's more trial and error than anything scientific. 

I use about 1/2 tsp xanthan gum for ~2 cups of liquid soap. I've only done this with a small amount of soap. Basically enough to fill a dispenser. Dissolve in glycerin, may take a while to get it dissolved, then I use a hand blender (the little milk frothier tool) or sb to mix into the ls. Depending on the thickness of the soap you are starting with 1/2 tsp may not be enough.

With arrowroot, the ls needs to be warmed but not boiling. I just add arrowroot directly to the soap and sb. Usually about 1 tsp for ~2 cups of ls. 

HEC is a pain, but it does work ... and requires a lot of work to make it work. lol


----------



## Justcallmewillie (Aug 31, 2021)

Kcryss said:


> ohhh ... lol. My mistake. Well, in that case, I would be interested in the results as well. I have used xanthan gum and arrowroot. Both work to thicken the soap as well.
> 
> Not sure why the link didn't work. I'll try again if anyone wants it Alaiyna B. Bath and Body: Thickening liquid soap with Hydroxyethel Cellulose (HEC) - Method 1


I’ll have a look at that link. Thank you for resending


----------



## AliOop (Aug 31, 2021)

@Kcryss  That's awesome, thank you!


----------



## Kcryss (Sep 1, 2021)

Just a quick side note, no matter what I've used to thicken ls, it seems it has to sit for a couple of days before you see the final thickness. Too often I decide it's done, pour it into a dispenser just to wake up the next day and find it's too thick to dispense.


----------



## Justcallmewillie (Sep 1, 2021)

last night it was holding well with no change in consistency UNTIL I added a little Lebermuth BlackBerry FO. It immediately turned cloudy then original thickness then separated overnight. I have a strong feeling I’ll be chasing my tail on this experiment using methylcellulose and suggest something else. It does work with LS as long as it’s not scented. I’ve got one last idea then I’ll quit cause I’m not buying more stuff to turn into another rabbit hole.


----------



## Justcallmewillie (Sep 1, 2021)

Update…used a FO especially for CP soap and that did not cloud the LS nor did it affect the thickness of the soap. I mixed about 1-2tsp methylcellulose to a little distilled water first then added to hot LS (16oz) No chunks and it thickened well. Not over the top thick cause I don’t want to use a spoon


----------



## Justcallmewillie (Sep 1, 2021)




----------



## Kcryss (Sep 1, 2021)

That looks great! I've been reading up on methylcellulose. I think I will give it a try. I'm interested to see what happens after cool down and then within the first 24 to 48 hrs after.


----------



## Justcallmewillie (Sep 1, 2021)

Kcryss said:


> That looks great! I've been reading up on methylcellulose. I think I will give it a try. I'm interested to see what happens after cool down and then within the first 24 to 48 hrs after.


 it’s been in the fridge about 20 min so far. I’m not sure if it needed to be heated but I pretended I was making gravy.  Gravy is always thin when heated then gets thicker upon cooling so I used the MC until I could feel it thicker then stopped. I guess I’m a way, I do want my LS to be a little thicker because it runs straight through a pouf and on to the shower floor thus wasting half if not more.  With anything, we don’t know unless we try and it could help someone along the way


----------



## cmzaha (Sep 1, 2021)

Just a little thought about using Arrowroot powder. When using it in any water-based product especially LS I have had it go moldy even when using a preservative. I learned early on to avoid arrowroot powder in water-based products or in products that could come in contact with water. Several years ago I tested it in LS as a thickening agent, it did not work for me so if selling I would not risk it. I never had problems with HEC.


----------



## Justcallmewillie (Sep 1, 2021)

cmzaha said:


> Just a little thought about using Arrowroot powder. When using it in any water-based product especially LS I have had it go moldy even when using a preservative. I learned early on to avoid arrowroot powder in water-based products or in products that could come in contact with water. Several years ago I tested it in LS as a thickening agent, it did not work for me so if selling I would not risk it. I never had problems with HEC.


I was experimenting last year with an organic paint mask using arrowroot, xanthan and Guar just to discover, like you did, a soured mess of utter disaster. Bacteria laden sewer smelling garbage.


----------



## Kcryss (Sep 1, 2021)

cmzaha said:


> Just a little thought about using Arrowroot powder. When using it in any water-based product especially LS I have had it go moldy even when using a preservative. I learned early on to avoid arrowroot powder in water-based products or in products that could come in contact with water. Several years ago I tested it in LS as a thickening agent, it did not work for me so if selling I would not risk it. I never had problems with HEC.


Good to know! I've never had it around long enough to notice anything growing, maybe I just got lucky. I will not be using it again! Thanks for the heads up! 



Justcallmewillie said:


> I was experimenting last year with an organic paint mask using arrowroot, xanthan and Guar just to discover, like you did, a soured mess of utter disaster. Bacteria laden sewer smelling garbage.


 Yuck! Was it from the arrowroot or do you think xanthan gum and/or guar helped with the bacteria mess?


----------



## Justcallmewillie (Sep 1, 2021)

Kcryss said:


> Good to know! I've never had it around long enough to notice anything growing, maybe I just got lucky. I will not be using it again! Thanks for the heads up!
> 
> 
> Yuck! Was it from the arrowroot or do you think xanthan gum and/or guar helped with the bacteria mess?


Not sure. I have them for making egg free ice cream but food items are either eaten cold or hot; not for storage at room temperature from the experiments ive done.  I had a test soap going out to a friend and decided she will get the experimental MC thickened stuff  
On this one, I poured 15oz scented LS into a pitcher, separately mixed 1tsp MC with 1oz distilled water in a beaker until smooth then poured the MC solution into the LS. I stirred this very gently to avoid foam until I got a very light trace. Stopped there snd poured into the bottle. So if this works like I think it may, then we now have an easier alternative for HEC


----------



## Justcallmewillie (Sep 2, 2021)

2nd update. As of today, what was done yesterday is still holding well with zero signs of separation. It’s not super thick, which I want and not real thin to run through the pouf on to the floor. So if you try Methylcellulose, try 15oz soap, scent it, mix 1 tsp methylcellulose to 1oz distilled water and stir until mixed..about 5 seconds. Pour that into the soap. Stir gently until incorporated and continue until a light trace is noticed. May have to add more methylcellulose/water. Do NOT add methylcellulose to hot or warm soap or you will get gnarly chunks. Room temperature only snd no need to cook. No need for a stick blender.


----------



## Kcryss (Sep 2, 2021)

Great news! Thanks for the update!


----------



## Justcallmewillie (Sep 7, 2021)

So, it’s Tuesday.
update 2  was last Thursday.  So far, the methylcellulose is holding well, no signs of change, no mutations, no separations, and I’m satisfied with the experiment. No cooking, no standing on your head with your tongue on the right side stuff. Just need some patience. 1tsp In a little distilled water per 16oz LS. …like 15ml will work. Make sure the LS is scented first, then slowly add the solution. Gently stir with a spatula, go do something else, come back and stir some more. Maybe add a little more solution, stir some more, wait a bit, stir and then you will see a slight trace.
I think I got the methylcellulose from the chemical store. It’s a white powder. Don’t wanna get this stuff airborne then inhale it accidentally.


----------



## Kcryss (Sep 7, 2021)

Thanks for the update @Justcallmewillie and great news!


----------



## Justcallmewillie (Sep 7, 2021)

Kcryss said:


> Thanks for the update @Justcallmewillie and great news!


Sure thing! Did you order any?


----------



## Kcryss (Sep 7, 2021)

Justcallmewillie said:


> Sure thing! Did you order any?


Not yet! But will be ordering some very soon!


----------

