# Insurance & Labeling



## jenmarie82 (Sep 3, 2008)

Hi,
I'm going to be placing my soap in a shop and I also sell it and i was wondering about liability insurance. I'm just now starting out so i don't have a business license or anything yet and i'm really just testing my soap on the market. Would I be able to get insurance right now? And I need to know how to label my soaps and how to word a disclaimer so as to protect myself. Thanks.


----------



## Tabitha (Sep 3, 2008)

Do you know how to go back & look to see if anyone has given you responses on your other open threads?

You have 3 other threads open where I have given you labeling info and at least 1 other thread open where I have given you insurance info.

Are you not able to access those threads?


----------



## jenmarie82 (Sep 3, 2008)

Yes I do...i'm NOT stupid. I wasn't getting the answer i wanted. And this is a totally different section of the forum. Are there limits to the number of threads a person can post??


----------



## Harlow (Sep 3, 2008)

I think she was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Not everyone is familiar with how forums operate.

It realy is polite to let people know you have read what they have written so they do not think they are wasting their time responding to you.


----------



## Becky (Sep 4, 2008)

Jenmarie, Tabitha has responded to many of your posts with links to the information you are looking for.  She is actively trying to help you. It just so happens that the info you need, you need to read thru and gather for yourself.

In every post of yours I have read today, you are asking someone to just hand you information. There comes a time when you have to do your own research and determine for yourself what is required, what works, what doesn't. 

Nearly everyone on this forum is actively trying to help each other. Just realise that there are some decisions that you have to make for yourself, and some information you have to gather for yourself.


----------



## Lane (Sep 4, 2008)

" i'm really just testing my soap on the market."

Be very careful with that. If something doesn't "test" as well as you'd like, it could ruin your name and business rep...


----------



## Harlow (Sep 4, 2008)

I would be worried about ruining your name and business too, as Lane said, but primarily I would be worried about hurting someone.

According to the info on your website you are adding baby powder fragrance oil to your baby soaps. Did you do your research on the effects of chemicals (fragrance) on newborn baby skin? Did you speak with a few pediatrician? Fragrance oils are very dangerous to new tender baby skin. You are really setting yourself up for trouble not to mention those poor little ones that might get their delicate skin burned. I would suggest you do lots of research first and market test much later. 

Have you researched the different levels and grades of fragrance oils?  There are a few good threads here on fragrance safety.

Don't worry, there is a lot to learn, but businesses do not pop up overnight. We all do our research, put in our time and do lots of testing. In fact, the research never stops. We are constantly searching the internet and libraries for the most current info. It just makes sense.


----------



## jenmarie82 (Sep 4, 2008)

I can understand your feelings towards this, but i have a question...
why is everyone telling me to not do the things I'm doing? And telling me that i will burn babies skin with my soap??? Come on, what do you think is in the commercial baby shampoos and body washes?  Do those "burn" babies as well? Everyone seems to be just fine with those products but as soon as a handmade product comes along, you can't dare have any type of fragrance. I'm just wondering why that is. I realize that there are a lot of things to watch out for but come on...all this talk is really souring it for me. I have a 6 month old and i've used my soap on her and i've had 2 other moms use it on their babies and not one has been irritated by it. I'm not going into this totally blindfolded.  However i do appreciate the concern and info.


----------



## jenmarie82 (Sep 4, 2008)

And I do offer baby soap without anything added to it so people are free to choose that if they're afraid something might irritate the skin.


----------



## Tabitha (Sep 4, 2008)

The big companies you refer to have chemists & scientist on hand & have all of their soaps tested in labs on a regular basis. We as smaller crafters do not have the resources they have. The oils we have access to are also not the same grade as those being used & produced by the big boys.

You are forunate you have not had an reaction by a child. I made soap for 2 years before I had one, it was w/ an adult & once it happens you won't soon forget it.

You can look through old posts here. This is not the first time the baby issue has come up. We just want you to be safe. It is something we wish we had all been told in the begining. It is better to hear it from us than a customer, the mother of a hurt child or the emergency room attendant.


----------



## Tabitha (Sep 4, 2008)

I should add that many of us add the phrase, "Not for use on babies or young children. Consult your doctor before using if you are pregnant". So it's not just you, we abide by the same set of guidlines.


----------



## jenmarie82 (Sep 4, 2008)

Well thanks, but that's why it's important to have disclaimers and what not.
I wouldn't ever suggest that a newborn use the soap with fragrance But I mean, how are you supposed to know if someone's allergic to something? It's not your fault as the soapmaker.  I put a disclaimer on my website because of this sort of thing.  Honestly how can you truly avoid this? You make your products and make it clear that you don't give medical advice, etc...If someone wants to purchase a certain type of bar who are we to tell them no, they can't have that one.  I'm just curious.


----------



## Tabitha (Sep 4, 2008)

You are right, you can not control what they do with it after it's been bought... BUT...When you advertise baby soap w/ fragrance oil in it, you KNOW who they are using it on because you made the suggestion.

When someone buys from you, they have not researched the ingredients, they should, but they don't. They are trusting that you already have. They are  putting their faith in you as a professional.

Does your disclaimer erase your moral obligation to make a safe product?

If a mom comes to you & tells you here baby was burned will you say "Not my problem I had a disclaimer"?

Disclaimer, by the way, do not hold up in court, they are not legally binding agreements. They are one sided suggestion. Ask your lawyer about that & she/he will tell you the same. That is why you need insurance. If the discliamers got soapmakers off the hook, there would be no need for insurance agencies for soap makers.


----------



## Harlow (Sep 5, 2008)

> I wouldn't ever suggest that a newborn use the soap with fragrance


 You are suggesting it when you sell soap with fragrance in it & list it as "baby" soap. 

You came here with questions, seeking help. Everyone has been very generous sharing really good information with you, but you don't seem to want it.


----------



## jenmarie82 (Sep 5, 2008)

I never said I didn't want the help, it just seems to me that the majority of people on here have an attitude problem. I think i'll just find another forum.


----------



## pepperi27 (Sep 5, 2008)

Sorry you feel that way but everyone on here has a lot of experience whether newbie or veterans. Some of us have been researching for quite some time. We learn from each other no matter what and you shouldn't take offense to that. We try to help to the best of our abilities.


----------



## jenmarie82 (Sep 5, 2008)

Well ever since i started posting on here a couple days ago, Tabitha has been doing nothing but putting me down, saying that my website is messed up and that i need to change the layout when others came along and said it was great. And others have made comments about me not trying and wanting to free load off of everyone. What the hell is up with that? I came on this forum for advice and help. When I asked for label examples you should read the response.  I didn't want a link to the freakin FDA website. That's not what I was asking for. I wanted to know if anyone knew of a website that I could go to that had an actual label that I could look at.  
I don't like posting on forums where the moderator or anyone else has a chip on their shoulder. But i guess i understand now why they said the things they did..everyone on here is in competition with the other because most of us sell our soap.  No one is going to offer real advice, why would they?


----------



## roseangel (Sep 5, 2008)

Being told the truth and sent to places with all the legal information you really should know is having attitude?
You have been more hostile than anyone else who has posted on your topics.
If you did not want honesty, maybe you shouldn't have asked.


----------



## jenmarie82 (Sep 5, 2008)

Whatever


----------



## jenmarie82 (Sep 5, 2008)

I'm not going to argue about this anymore because it's so ridiculous. Complete strangers acting like this on a free forum? Ha ha.
And you call it being nice when the first time you post on a forum and ask for HELP, someone tells you that they're not going to give you the information and you have to get it yourself....that's nice? That's offering advice?  LOL
That's not my idea of offering help to someone who asks for it.


----------



## IanT (Sep 5, 2008)

play nice children.


----------



## IanT (Sep 5, 2008)

Becky said:
			
		

> Jenmarie, Tabitha has responded to many of your posts with links to the information you are looking for.  She is actively trying to help you. It just so happens that the info you need, you need to read thru and gather for yourself.
> 
> In every post of yours I have read today, you are asking someone to just hand you information. There comes a time when you have to do your own research and determine for yourself what is required, what works, what doesn't.
> 
> Nearly everyone on this forum is actively trying to help each other. Just realise that there are some decisions that you have to make for yourself, and some information you have to gather for yourself.



well said baby cakes :*


----------



## Tabitha (Sep 5, 2008)

When your child asks for help w/ their homework, you point them in the right direction, you do not do their homeworks for them.

No one is going to write your labels for you. Period.  You have been handed the info now it's your turn to do a little work. We will not do it for you. If you want to see a label I am sure you have a couple dozen in the  bathroom & there are more at the corner market.

I am very put off by the fact you think we owe you. A forum is give & take & so far you have shown to only be a taker. 

This behavior will no longer be tolerated & should not have been put up with this long. Out of hundreds of members you are the only one that wants to be spoon fed and has not offered anything in return. You have not responded to anyone elses thread but your own & you have never uttered a single thank you.

Any attitude you are getting you asked for & in full stength. Most of us are biting our tongues, I was, untill now.

The buck stops here. Consider this your 1 & 2nd warning. A third means your account will be deleted & your IP will be banned.


----------



## pepperi27 (Sep 5, 2008)

jenmarie82 said:
			
		

> Well ever since i started posting on here a couple days ago, Tabitha has been doing nothing but putting me down, saying that my website is messed up and that i need to change the layout when others came along and said it was great. And others have made comments about me not trying and wanting to free load off of everyone. What the hell is up with that? I came on this forum for advice and help. When I asked for label examples you should read the response.  I didn't want a link to the freakin FDA website. That's not what I was asking for. I wanted to know if anyone knew of a website that I could go to that had an actual label that I could look at.
> I don't like posting on forums where the moderator or anyone else has a chip on their shoulder. But i guess i understand now why they said the things they did..everyone on here is in competition with the other because most of us sell our soap.  No one is going to offer real advice, why would they?



No you came on this forum because if you joined another one and only asked for information without doing some research yourself they would have some nasty words for you. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion so if you don't want to hear the truth then don't ask. We are buyers as well as sellers so when we give advice, its on a buyers level. If you want to see others labels just search for bath and body makers or handmade soap? Some of us have been there done that, so if we warn you about possible lawsuits because you mislabeled something I would like to think its because we are trying to help you? Hey if you don't want our help......


----------

