# Can I just add ingredients to pre-made Castile Soap?



## CastileAway (May 27, 2008)

Hi, I'm new and wanted to make some of my own soaps. 

Out of simplicity sake, I was wondering if I could just add essential oils like Tea Tree, Neem, etc. to already made Castile Soap?

Could I just mix and stir? Do I have to heat? Do they have to be essential oils, or could other oils such as CO2 oils be used?

I'm not looking to do melt and pour as I want a gentle and liquid Castile soap.


Also, can exfoliants be added to pre-made Castile soap? Would they stay suspended? Are there any recommended exfoliants, as I've heard that jagged (as opposed to smooth or rounded) exfoliants are not good for the skin.

Thanks


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## CastileAway (Jun 2, 2008)

Hmmm...no one has tried it before?


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## pjdxxxwa (Jun 3, 2008)

CastileAway said:
			
		

> Hmmm...no one has tried it before?



I have tired many things...lol.   I just don't get to boards very often, mail usually comes to me.  :wink: 

One can make any type of soap as a base, but you would then be limited on what you add to it because once once saponified other oils will NOT turn into soap UNLESS you add more water and lye to saponify that as you melt the other, then cook them both again whle the new oil saponifies fully. 

BUT, if you are making castile soap, you can melt slowly in the over several hours, then add a fragrance or essential oil,  maybe oats or ground poppy seed for exfoliating, etc.  

You would need to be careful that they are groupn enough to NOT hurt delicate skin.  Also, your fragrance oils need to be soap or cosmetic grade to not irritate skin.  Fragrances are all manufactured for particular purposes so you really  need to get the manufacturer's paperwork to ensure that your vendor is not selling you a different grade, such as, candle or potpourri grade oils for soaps.


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## pjdxxxwa (Jun 3, 2008)

Ooppps  sorry to have forgotten my signature.  Just put it on automatic so it may show up this time.


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## Tabitha (Jun 3, 2008)

Here is all the info you ever wanted to know about making castile soap:

http://www.millersoap.com/castile.html

Hope the link helps helps you to make safe informed descisions.

The process by which you take an already made bar of soap & add to it is called rebatching. Here is the miller page on rebatching: http://www.millersoap.com/re.html


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2008)

CastileAway said:
			
		

> Hmmm...no one has tried it before?



I've just been reading Catherine Failor's "Making Liquid Natural Soaps" and I suggest you get your hands on a copy and read it. Try to find a copy at your local library it's call number is 668.1 F161.

Apparently you can add EOs and FOs provided they are skin safe, and you should consider that some may be allergenic to those with sensitive skin. Failor suggests the following:

"Most commercial soaps are fragranced at a 1 percent rate, or 1 percent of fragrance per weight of the soap. But fragrancing is very subjective, and some fragrances are much stronger than others. Use this as a rough guideline only."

Even though you aren't making your liquid Castile soap from scratch it seems to me that since fragrancing is one of the later steps you should be able to do the same to your commercial Castile. I suggest you should experiment on a small quantity and not exceed the 1 percent guideline.

But what do I know?


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## pjdxxxwa (Jun 3, 2008)

Lovehound said:
			
		

> CastileAway said:
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I did not get the impression that post was referring to premade and purchased liquid castile.  If so, it would already be fragranced and many fragrances do not blend in a friendly way.  
I got the impression, perhaps I was wrong, that this post was referring to hand made castile soap (both  bar and liquid).  As I reread it perhaps it was only liquid?  In that case one can not just add any old thing as an exfoliant. You would pretty much need to add some chemicals for gelling that would aid in keeping the exfoliating items afloat. If in the US that would then convert this product from soap to a liquid detergent and she would need to follow the www.FDA.gov  rules for cosmetics.


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2008)

The OP said, "I want a gentle and *liquid* Castile soap" and "wondering if I could just add essential oils ... to *already made* Castile Soap?"

I suppose it depends on how you interpret "already made." And I see the reference to liquid soap as fairly strong but YMMV.

It's up to the OP to return and elaborate, and forums being what they are it's sometimes rather uncertain if the OP will ever return and read the replies.

One more comment I forgot to put into my earlier post is that I saw no mention of exfoliants in Failor's excellent book, nor was it mentioned in the index, so I suspect that exfoliants are not used in liquid soap. That kind of makes common sense to me.

I suggest we withhold further comment pending the return of the OP, in order to save typing if nothing else.


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## pjdxxxwa (Jun 3, 2008)

Lovehound said:
			
		

> The OP said, "I want a gentle and *liquid* Castile soap" and "wondering if I could just add essential oils ... to *already made* Castile Soap?"
> 
> One more comment I forgot to put into my earlier post is that I saw no mention of exfoliants in Failor's excellent book, nor was it mentioned in the index, so I suspect that exfoliants are not used in liquid soap. That kind of makes common sense to me.
> 
> I suggest we withhold further comment pending the return of the OP, in order to save typing if nothing else.



It is possible to suspend items in a gelled liquid, but not a liquid the consistency of shampoo.   :wink: 
I agree. We need clarifying from the OP to see what (s)he intended. To purchase or make from scratch, then add EO.


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2008)

BTW Hi Dolores and welcome to SMF!  I see that you just joined today. I'm short time myself but happy to be among the first to welcome you and hope you enjoy the forum!


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## pjdxxxwa (Jun 3, 2008)

Lovehound said:
			
		

> BTW Hi Dolores and welcome to SMF!  I see that you just joined today. I'm short time myself but happy to be among the first to welcome you and hope you enjoy the forum!



Thank you, Greg.  Glad to be here. Everyone seems quite nice and hopefully I can add a few nuggets to what everyone is talking about, and learn a few for myself on what is going on in the soap world these days.


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## CastileAway (Jun 4, 2008)

Thanks for all of the responses.

To add some clarification...

1. I am a he.

2. I wanted to add stuff to already made LIQUID Castile Soap. By already made I mean purchasing a bottle of Castile Soap. The kind made with nothing but Olive Oil and Lye.

My hope was that I could buy a bottle of Olive oil Castile Soap and just add other ingredients such as Tea Tree, Seabuckthorn, Neem Oil, etc. Mix them up thoroughly and have a custom soap.

I wanted Castile Soap because it's simple, gentle, and liquid (which I prefer). I wanted to add the other things for other purposes such as killing bacteria, healing, etc.

One reason specifically was to to try to make my own anti-acne soap since SBT, Tea Trea kill bacteria, parasites, etc. The idea of adding the exfoliants was because many anti-acne soaps contain them, such as Proactive.

I checked out the Rebatching pages, but did not see anything about liquid Castile or simply adding ingredients. Perhaps, I will indeed need to make this from scratch. I was hoping I could just add to it for simplicity's sake, and so I could test a formula and perform simple tweaks.


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## Tabitha (Jun 4, 2008)

OK, I missed the *liquid* part of that post.

www.fromnaturewithlove.com is the only supplier I know that carries liquid castile soap base. I am sure you could phone them & ask what will or will not mix into their base successfully.

I also found this link w/ a little more info.:
http://www.newdirectionsaromatics.ca/


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## Tabitha (Jun 4, 2008)

You can add exfoliants, fragrances, etc to most any liquid base. Each supplier will have specific recommendations and amounts for their specific product. I have seen liquid soaps w/ exfoliating jojoba beads in them, apricot kernal is another option. You might run into the exfoliants sinking or the fragrances seperating, but that will all be trial & error.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

I think the OP CastileAway is ... away.


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## Deda (Jun 4, 2008)

CastileAway said:
			
		

> 2. I wanted to add stuff to already made LIQUID Castile Soap. By already made I mean purchasing a bottle of Castile Soap. The kind made with nothing but Olive Oil and Lye.



Liquid soap isn't made with Regualr Lye (NaOH - Soduim Hydroxide), its made with Potassium Hydroxide (KOH) or Potash Lye.

When I have made it I added fragrance and/or oils like Tea Tree and Neem Oils (great flea soap) after the whole batch has cooked and cooled for a total of about 3 days. 

That said, if you bought yourself a big ole bottle of Dr Bonners and threw about 1-3% of whatever you wanted to mix you would probably be ok.  As for floaters?  I don't know what the water ratio is to commercially made soap.  If I want to add something like jojoba beads, cornmeal or pumice I use less boiling water in the final thin down stage.  

Someone else may know if it is possible to "cook out" some of the water in liquid castile.


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## CastileAway (Jun 4, 2008)

pjdxxxwa said:
			
		

> ....
> 
> In that case one can not just add any old thing as an exfoliant. You would pretty much need to add some chemicals for gelling that would aid in keeping the exfoliating items afloat. If in the US that would then convert this product from soap to a liquid detergent and she would need to follow the www.FDA.gov  rules for cosmetics.



Not sure if anyone knows and not the proper place to ask, but since it came up...

I was looking over the FDA's site and I'm confused by some of their rules. Such as when a cosmetic becomes a drug. 

I see many products sold all over the internet that make claims that would seemingly fit the FDA's classification of a drug. There are lotions, creams, soaps, etc. that claim to heal or treat such things as eczema, psoriasis, acne, etc. Yet, they clearly have not gone through the FDA's approval process for drugs as they have disclaimers, "These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, yada yada yada..."

I'm not bashing the companies, because I know many work, and I'm not a fan of the FDA. And I know companies have gotten into trouble with the FDA in the past. 

I'm just confused as to how this works. Are the companies just skirting the rules and the FDA just doesn't bother with them often. Or does the whole drug rule not apply somehow, because they're selling products made with safe and natural ingredients. Because it seems like the term Drug applies to the claims, not the ingredients. So if one claims their Tea Trea Cleanser treats Psoriasis, it seems to me the FDA would call it a drug and drop the hammer on them.

I think some get away with it because they only show testimonials or tell their own story. So then it's just an anecdote, a testimonial, and free speech. But many come right out and say, "Heal, Treat, Relieve, Treatment, etc.) Such as Freederm HC.

Are they viable and legal ways around making claims, but not going through the drug approval rigmarole? Or is it just a matter of time before trouble?


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## Tabitha (Jun 4, 2008)

The FDA does not have black & white ruls, they are guidlines which leaves them open to interpretation. That is a sticky situation.

Yes, some companies just skirting the rules and the FDA just doesn't bother to police the issue. A large % of people who make bath & body items (or any other art craft item) look at their craft as a hobby rather than a biz & somehow rationalize the FDA does not apply to them. Many also do not collect sales taxes, report income, etc.


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## Tabitha (Jun 4, 2008)

I find the following 2 links to be the most helpful pages at the FDA.

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms
Is It a Cosmetic, a Drug, or Both?
(or Is It Soap?)


http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/cos-lab1.html 
1)Summary of Regulatory Requirements for Labeling of Cosmetics Marketed in the United States.
2)Cosmetic Labeling Regulations as Published in Title 21, Code of Federal Regulations, Sections 701, 740 and Other Pertinent Sections.
3)Cosmetic Labeling Guide.


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## CastileAway (Jun 4, 2008)

Thanks.

It might be worth a try to add some oils and see if they mix. I won't bother with the exfoliants just yet.


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## pjdxxxwa (Jun 4, 2008)

I have never purchased a ready made base myself, but from experience reading posts on the LiquidSoap list and the CosmeticLab lists do not be
surprised if your  additives fall to the bottom of the bottle.  You can always
shake it, I suppose.   :wink: 

Your additives of certain EO's.  Beware that you do not add MORE than the recommended percentage of total EO/ounces of soap.  And take note that certain EO's can actually irritate skin to worsen problems.  

Acne has different causes:  allergies,  plugged oil glands, entrapped dirt or particles, etc. 

If you use Lumina, for example, as an exfolliant and fail to rinse ever bit off can get what look like a zit from the bit buried under the skin. So first determine the cause then proceed from there. 

I have had great success clearing teen acne problems for customers with simple bar soap recipes using less comdogenic oil  combo like shea butter and sunflower oils in a base of coconut, palm kernel, castor and pure grade olive oil.   I scented with a mild rosemary,  lavender and tea tree.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2008)

Tabitha said:
			
		

> Yes, some companies just skirting the rules and the FDA just doesn't bother to police the issue. A large % of people who make bath & body items (or any other art craft item) look at their craft as a hobby rather than a biz & somehow rationalize the FDA does not apply to them. Many also do not collect sales taxes, report income, etc.


The hobbyists are counting on there being more of them than federal agents, and counting on being so small that it would be too expensive to prosecute them in terms of labor cost.

Not a good bet in my opinion. I'm just going to sell soap, charge sales tax where required, file income taxes, make no claims other than "it's just soap."


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## CastileAway (Jun 5, 2008)

pjdxxxwa said:
			
		

> Your additives of certain EO's.  Beware that you do not add MORE than the recommended percentage of total EO/ounces of soap.  And take note that certain EO's can actually irritate skin to worsen problems.
> 
> I have had great success clearing teen acne problems for customers with simple bar soap recipes using less comdogenic oil  combo like shea butter and sunflower oils in a base of coconut, palm kernel, castor and pure grade olive oil.   I scented with a mild rosemary,  lavender and tea tree.



Is there a site or list somewhere that gives the ratios?

I'd like to keep the soap only olive oil. Is that non-comogenic?


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## CastileAway (Jun 12, 2008)

CastileAway said:
			
		

> pjdxxxwa said:
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No such luck?


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## Tabitha (Jun 12, 2008)

Each eo from each diff supplier is going to have a dif ratio. No 2 oils are created equal.

That's like asking how many jelly beans can a person eat before they get a tummy ache. There re other factors that come in to play. Best thing to do is ask the specific supplier where you got the oil & see what they suggest.


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