# Dandruff Shampoo bar?



## Stakie (Sep 6, 2013)

So, I am finally giving in and going to make a shampoo bar. I want it as a personal bar. I am looking to create one with dandruff fighting ingredients like coconut oil and shea butter. I can't use any citrus as I am allergic. I know both olive oil and castor oil are good for the hair, but not sure about the scalp. The scalp is my main focus.

So, Coconut oil and shea butter. Any suggestions as to oils or butters I should add?

Thanks in advance for your help!


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## MOGal70 (Sep 6, 2013)

Both pine tar and Neem are said to be good for skin conditions.


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## Stakie (Sep 6, 2013)

MOGal70 said:


> Both pine tar and Neem are said to be good for skin conditions.


What would be a good pine tar? Would you happen to know?


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## judymoody (Sep 6, 2013)

You can buy tine tar at feed stores or on line.  A lot of soapers use Bickmans.

Cocoa butter is also good in shampoo bars.  Some folks like egg yolks too.


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## Robert (Sep 6, 2013)

If I ever got back into soap making, one project I had in mind was a dandruff bar including sodium undecylenate.  Undecylenic acid is such a rare fatty acid (occurring in human sweat, but not in large amounts in any fat, so they make it by cracking castor oil) that you probably won't find sap/neutralization values for it in soapmaking tables.  My hypothesis is that since undecylenic acid is anti-fungal (used to be the active ingredient of Desenex), and since dandruff shampoos these days are based on anti-fungal agents, it would work, and since sodium undecylenate would be a soap, it'd be easy to formulate into a shampoo bar.  Plus, what soap could be gentler on skin than a component of your own sweat?  (Just a lot more of it and a lot more alkaline than your sweat.)

I just don't know what percentage might work.  I'd figure on its not being the main soap in there, the rest being mostly a fairly strong soap like coconut or palm kernel, castor to mellow it out, and some palmitamidopropyl betaine.  Palmitamidopropyl betaine was shown to be more effective than some other surfactants in removing dandruff from pigs, and alkamidopropyl betaines are especially effective at dispersing the lime soaps that form in "hard" water.  (Yeah, pigs.  They get a heck of a dandruff after a few days if they've got no pool to wallow in and you don't grease them.)


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## birdfeeder (Sep 6, 2013)

I'm going to make a shampoo bar too. I heard avcado oil is good for skin and hair.This is my recipe, just for 1 bar:


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## Stakie (Sep 6, 2013)

Yeah, I read online a lot about the fungal aspect of it all. I am just fed up with trying to find shampoos that I am not allergic to AND help with dandruff. It's hopeless. I might as well just make something of my own!


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## Stakie (Sep 6, 2013)

What does the sunflower provide that the other oils do not?


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## birdfeeder (Sep 6, 2013)

Stakie said:


> What does the sunflower provide that the other oils do not?



http://www.livestrong.com/article/90229-benefits-sunflower-oil-hair/


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## Stakie (Sep 6, 2013)

Thank you for the information. =3


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## Robert (Sep 6, 2013)

Stakie said:


> Yeah, I read online a lot about the fungal aspect of it all. I am just fed up with trying to find shampoos that I am not allergic to AND help with dandruff. It's hopeless. I might as well just make something of my own!


I find it interesting that over roughly the same period of time, dandruff and peptic ulcers went thru a stage of being believed to have an infectious/microbial cause, then being believed not to have such a cause, and then again believed to have such a cause.  In neither case is the microbe sufficient to produce the condition, because most people are colonized by it, but most people don't have the condition.  However, if you get rid of the microbe, you do get rid of or at least improve the condition.

Nobody to my knowledge is using undecylenate as a dandruff treatment, the industry having moved on to stronger antifungal agents.  Nobody's going to invest the time to get FDA (or other governments') licensure of this labeled use of an antifungal when athlete's foot etc. treatments have moved on to stronger ones, but I suspect undecylenate will work at least fairly well when formulated well.  Undecylenic acid moieties are being used in some surfactants to help preserve toiletry formulas against mold, as long as it's a secondary usage (the surfactant having another primary purpose in the formula) so they don't need to get EPA registration as a fungicide.  Similarly someone could use undecylenate in a soap-based shampoo bar, just not claiming it as an active ingredient; they could even market it as a dandruff shampoo with another, licensed, active ingredient.

But although antifungals are good for preventing dandruff, there are still other ingredients better at removing dandruff than general detergents.  Some ingredients like salicylic acid are keratolytic, kind of blasting the outer layer of skin to remove dead stuff now instead of waiting for it to form dandruff.  Others are keratoplastic, softening and smoothing down the skin so it doesn't flake off so fast.  In experiments on pigs at Procter & Gamble ~25 yrs. ago, Bisset & Mao showed palmitamidropropyl (cetamidopropyl in their terminology) betaine was a good secondary surfactant for removing flakes & smoothing skin, but they never to my knowledge used it in shampoo, only in Ivory Dishwashing Liquid, and then only for a couple years; I think they decided it was too expensive.


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## Stakie (Sep 6, 2013)

I honestly think my problem is not being able to use better shampoos and conditioners as I am just allergic to all of them. So get the layer of dead skin off and then keeping my head moisturized I think will remove most if not the entire problem. I am trying a very nice shampoo right now, but shampoo alone will not keep my head dandruff free at this point.


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## judymoody (Sep 6, 2013)

Stakie said:


> I honestly think my problem is not being able to use better shampoos and conditioners as I am just allergic to all of them. So get the layer of dead skin off and then keeping my head moisturized I think will remove most if not the entire problem. I am trying a very nice shampoo right now, but shampoo alone will not keep my head dandruff free at this point.



You might want to look at these:

http://wildwoodsoap.com/hair_care.html#!/~/product/category=3985484&id=17534253

They are surfactant-based, not CP soap. I know this soaper (she is wonderful!) and you could email her for more information about how these might work for you.


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## Saswede (Sep 6, 2013)

Argan oil is great for hair and scalp, Stakie - and it can be used as an oil treatment every so often.  It is expensive though (or at least it's expensive here!), but you only need a small percentage for the shampoo bar.

And I've also read that mango butter is good for hair, so I have that on my notes for my next batch of shampoo (in about a year from now!).


Sent from my iPad using Soap Making


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## lizflowers42 (Sep 6, 2013)

Tried a pine tar shampoo bar for hubby, who has dandruff...hasn't helped him too much.  I highly recommend dropping the coconut oil from your recipe-it's way too drying, and dandruff is usually caused by dry scalp.  You want something very moisturizing to soothe the scalp.


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## Stakie (Sep 6, 2013)

judymoody said:


> You might want to look at these:
> 
> http://wildwoodsoap.com/hair_care.html#!/~/product/category=3985484&id=17534253
> 
> They are surfactant-based, not CP soap. I know this soaper (she is wonderful!) and you could email her for more information about how these might work for you.


Thank you very much, but I have decided to make something of my own. I hate ordering things offline, anyway.


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## Ankh (Jun 7, 2014)

hie there...

well, even m planning to make shampoo bar for my dad in a few days..
well as i didnt find pine tar for dandruff i think neem might help a lot... so have made a neem infusion along with other ayurvedic herbs like brahmi, hibiscus.

honey being a natural moisturiser helps.... m not yet sure of what oils i am going to use....

give herbs a try.... might help....

ohh! ive also added turmeric... it has anti bacterial and anti fungal properties...


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## Rachelmf (Jun 7, 2014)

I have heard that tea tree oil is supposed to be good for dandruff.


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## Obsidian (Jun 8, 2014)

I use 5% neem in my shampoo bars. Not sure if it really helps with dandruff but it seems to help my scalp dermatitis. When formulating a shampoo bar, make sure to keep the cleansing number low, 0-5 is good and also keep the SF around 3 or so.


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## DeliaRana (Jun 16, 2014)

Camellia seed oil is good for your hair and skin.  If you don't use it in your soap you can also in your hair after it dries. Place a few drops in your hands rub them together then run your hands lightly through your hair.   Neem oil is also said to be good, but if you HP it smells like burnt rubber.  I have to cook my HP soap with neem in the garage (tends to make me nauseous when cooking also). I like tea tree oil also. It was recommended you have a low cleansing number, I would aim for about a 10 cleansing especially if you haven't used a shampoo bar before.  Then reduce it to a lower number once you hair and scalp have adjusted.


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## eucalypta (Jun 16, 2014)

IMHO you are doing more bad than good using a CP/HP soap for your hair, whatever ingredients you add to that.

 The problem is that dandruff is not a hair condition, but a scalp condition - and hard to fight.

 Perhaps you could make a scalp serum with willowbark, horse chestnut and burdock root for example, and use that as a pre-wash on the skin.
 Then wash your hair with a mild surfactant based shampoo (self made of course).
 Try to avoid the skin - certainly no massage with the shampoo.
 Rinse and use a suitable conditioner for your hair.

 The pH of CP/HP soap is far to high and irritating for your delicate skin and hair.
 It leaves a residue and makes your hair brittle. 

 I love natural products, but at the same time I embrace technology.;-)


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