# Paraben free, phthalate free?? Flavor oil & sweetener ingredient question



## JBB (Jan 6, 2018)

Okay, guys. I know this may be a stupid question, but with marketing my lip balm, I obviously want to be clear about the ingredients I use. Does anyone know when parabens, sulfates and phthalates come into play? I want to list my lip balms as being FREE from these things if they are in fact free from them, but I'm not sure of the exact ingredients that are used in the flavor oils and the Lip Smacking sweetener that I buy from Brambleberry. Does anyone know??

I certainly don't want to list any untruth, misleading statement on my products. Can anyone help?


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## dibbles (Jan 6, 2018)

Brambleberry lists on the MSDS sheet for their flavor oils that it is considered proprietary, and will probably not provide the ingredients. But they are good about answering questions, so I would email them and ask how to label products using these flavor oils/sweeteners. Ask if they are free of parabens, phthalates and sulfates and they will probably let you know.


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## SaltedFig (Jan 6, 2018)

^^^ this.


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## JBB (Jan 6, 2018)

I did ask Brambleberry some time back about the lip smacking sweetener ingredients and they would not tell me. Makes you really wonder what it is. I sent an email to them, as well as Bulk Apothecary, tonight in hopes that they will tell me if they are free from parabens, sulfates & phthalates. I won't get an answer back until next week, but was hoping someone on here may know. Working under a time crunch (isn't it always?). 
I really hate that we don't "know" what are in these things because our consumers ask these questions all the time. Some people really turn their noses up when you tell them you used flavor oils and sweetener. Isn't that what most people use when they make lip balms. I know some use essential oils, but what is predominately used?


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## SaltedFig (Jan 6, 2018)

CO2 extract flavor oils are an alternative that can be used to formulate without synthetics, but they tend to be more expensive.


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## JBB (Jan 6, 2018)

Where do you get that at?


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## cmzaha (Jan 6, 2018)

I find EO's burn my lips even used in very small percentages. Here in the US it is legal to not disclose all ingredients and list them as proprietary, including fragrance oils, so even msds sheets will not give all the answers.


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## SaltedFig (Jan 6, 2018)

I'm not sure where you are, but I am in Australia, so local to me would cost you a bit in postage.

When you find a supplier local to you, you will want to be sure you use oils specifically extracted for use in the food industry, and not just "essential oils" (which may not be suitable for use on lips), and then use the oil according to the manufacturers recommended usage rate.

(PS. Thanks cmzaha, I forget sometimes that the labeling can be so different.)


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## Bann51 (May 28, 2018)

Try soapcakes.com They have natural flavors and sweeteners.


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## Rune (May 28, 2018)

If they can't say if their oils are free of phtalates, parabenes and so on, you can assume they are packed full of them. Otherwise they would definately tell.


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## Dari J. (May 30, 2018)

I


JBB said:


> Okay, guys. I know this may be a stupid question, but with marketing my lip balm, I obviously want to be clear about the ingredients I use. Does anyone know when parabens, sulfates and phthalates come into play? I want to list my lip balms as being FREE from these things if they are in fact free from them, but I'm not sure of the exact ingredients that are used in the flavor oils and the Lip Smacking sweetener that I buy from Brambleberry. Does anyone know??
> 
> I certainly don't want to list any untruth, misleading statement on my products. Can anyone help?



Anything made in a laboratory is fake.
It's hard to stay away from them since people tend to smell every single thing (soaps, lip balms, lotionS) ...sad thing is that if it doesn't smell "good" then people loose interest.
I believe in essential oils and unscented smells.  I know is more expensive but is the best for anyone.
I think we have to start thinking


JBB said:


> Okay, guys. I know this may be a stupid question, but with marketing my lip balm, I obviously want to be clear about the ingredients I use. Does anyone know when parabens, sulfates and phthalates come into play? I want to list my lip balms as being FREE from these things if they are in fact free from them, but I'm not sure of the exact ingredients that are used in the flavor oils and the Lip Smacking sweetener that I buy from Brambleberry. Does anyone know??
> 
> I certainly don't want to list any untruth, misleading statement on my products. Can anyone help?





JBB said:


> Okay, guys. I know this may be a stupid question, but with marketing my lip balm, I obviously want to be clear about the ingredients I use. Does anyone know when parabens, sulfates and phthalates come into play? I want to list my lip balms as being FREE from these things if they are in fact free from them, but I'm not sure of the exact ingredients that are used in the flavor oils and the Lip Smacking sweetener that I buy from Brambleberry. Does anyone know??
> 
> I certainly don't want to list any untruth, misleading statement on my products. Can anyone help?



I think that for instance many of the fragrances have vanillin listed as one of their ingredients (on their bottles) and I just looked it up online and found that is actually synthetic ....and it's scientific name  is 4-Hydroxy-3-methoxybenzaldehyde.
That's no good... especially when you cant even pronounce it.  
I think we should start building concsiousnes among us (Crafters) and what we offer to our community.  I'm including myself in it.  
Is very attractive and tempting to have products with awesome smells and fragrancesb (that might sell great) but not good for anyone's health(in the long run). I started investing on essential oils myself. 
This is not to criticize anyone ...I'm just sharing my thoughts and converns. 

i


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## Dari J. (May 30, 2018)

My message got cut ....I didn't mean to say we have to start thinking like you guys don't do...sorry about that.  I meant "we should start building concsiousnes".


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## DeeAnna (May 30, 2018)

_"....That's no good... especially when you cant even pronounce it...."_

Well, then, I'm not going to ever let dihydroxy monoxide ever pass my lips again. And triacylglycerides .... ugh, how awful!

Seriously -- there are many chemicals that are found in nature that have long complicated names. There's no way a person can form sensible decisions about risk and safety using the "can I pronounce it" test.

_"...Anything made in a laboratory is fake...."_

Then you definitely should not take the time to learn how essential oils and absolutes are produced. The procedures for distillation and solvent extraction come straight out of a laboratory. And if you make soap, you really don't want to know how NaOH is made.


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## Dari J. (May 30, 2018)

Those are your thoughts and respect them but don't share them.   I see how knowledgeable you are on the subject.
Have a good day


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (May 30, 2018)

It doesn't matter overmuch if you don't except them - the FACT is that everything that we use is a chemical, that many good things have complicated chemical names, and that bad things can have very simple names. 

If as a group we need to look at our mindset, as you suggest, I suggest it is on a good basis such as learning about the chemicals regardless of how complicated the name is, and also educating others on it.


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## Dari J. (May 30, 2018)

I m


The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> It doesn't matter overmuch if you don't except them - the FACT is that everything that we use is a chemical, that many good things have complicated chemical names, and that bad things can have very simple names.
> 
> If as a group we need to look at our mindset, as you suggest, I suggest it is on a good basis such as learning about the chemicals regardless of how complicated the name is, and also educating others on it.


I think I perhaps miss explained myself.  I try to avoid as much as I can that type of ingredients for myself my family and community. That's all.  
Thank you for your kind and respectful response.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (May 31, 2018)

Dari J. said:


> I m
> 
> I think I perhaps miss explained myself.  I try to avoid as much as I can that type of ingredients for myself my family and community. That's all.
> Thank you for your kind and respectful response.


But "that type" of ingredients, as you said earlier, are things which sound bad because of a complicated chemical name. 

Is it not better for your family to research a chemical and then decide if it's good or bad for them, rather than going by the way the name rolls of the tongue or not?


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## Rune (May 31, 2018)

I will just add one thing. Most people tend to believe essential oils are pure and natural. Yes, they can be. But definately not always. Using essential oils is also a risk, since essential oils very often are adulterated. They are often adulterated with natural materials, like carrier oils or other cheaper plant material. But they can also be adulterated with synthetics and solvents. Often can it be a multi-level adulteration - the distillers use solvents in the water to extract more oil, plus throw in other and cheaper plant materials that have a similar scent, the exporter dillutes it with carrier oils and synthetic fragrance, and the importer dillutes it with carrier oil, or something like that. Essential oils are one of the most adulterated goods we have in the world.

For soapmaking, it is not possible to buy the most exclusive and most tested essential oils. It will be too expensive. Most try to buy cheap and in larger quantities, since you have to use way more to fragrance a soap than for example a lotion. Thus the risk of getting adulterated essential oils increases.

I'm not saying it is wrong to use essential oils, definately not. It might be that using even adulterated essential oils both is better for humans and for the environment than using fragrance oils. But they are not always as pure as people think. And if they are not pure, who knows what's in them? Definately not the consumer.


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## LilyJo (May 31, 2018)

I would also like to throw my hat in the ring on this one...

Many of the allergens found in so called 'fake' fragrances are the same compounds as found in essential oils Cinnamal, Limonene etc and the natural is better argument, whilst one that we all have here from time to time, is one that is pretty much debunked everytime. 

Why are essential oils better? What is is you have an objection to? From an ethical standpoint one could argue that synthetic is better as it doesnt impact on crops, using valuable land for to produce tiny amounts of oils which are further treated/destilled and processed as detailed above. What about synthetic allergen free, or nature identical, or nature based compounds? Do you consider them as fake as well? 

I am all for reducing the number of harmful chemicals we use in our everyday lives but I dont beleive its as simple and synthetic/fake bad vs all essential oils good.


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## David1pro (Jun 7, 2018)

DeeAnna and LillyJo make wise points. Sometimes it's better to use something made to be safe in a laboratory over something made by nature. No one is making essential oil of poison ivy, poison oak and poison sumac soap even though it'd be perfectly natural - possibly even organic, and vegan to boot! All the names are even easy to pronounce! 

Just look at the Essential Oils Safety Quick Reference by FrannsAltHealth.com and you'll quickly realize that just because it's an "essential oil" and not a fragrance oil doesn't mean it's safe or better. 

Almond bitter, cassie and cinnamon bark soap, anyone? Maybe with some nice clove leaf for the autumn line? Hyperbole, but it makes the point.


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## penelopejane (Jun 8, 2018)

Dari J. said:


> I
> Anything made in a laboratory is fake.
> It's hard to stay away from them since people tend to smell every single thing (soaps, lip balms, lotionS) ...sad thing is that if it doesn't smell "good" then people loose interest.
> I believe in essential oils and unscented smells.  I know is more expensive but is the best for anyone.
> ...



I understand what you are saying but I am allergic to many Essential Oils.  My DH is allergic to  some EOs.  There is no "this is the right way" when fragrances are concerned.  
You have to understand that everyone is different and that "natural" doesn't necessarily mean "good" or "best" or "safe".


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## lenarenee (Jun 25, 2018)

I had a shocking "aha" moment when studying botany a couple years ago - one that obliterated my guilty feelings for not being vegetarian.
You know how trees and plants clean the air - therefore we should plant more of them?  They clean the air all right - because those particle of pollution are stored in the plant!  So much for clean eating!  

There's also the new revelation from science that plants/veggies produce toxins in response to being cut, torn, eaten; that includes toxins that are harmful to us if in large amounts.  Science can't answer the question of how much it takes i.e., eat a bucket of chopped cabbage in a day, or eat if there's an accumulation, i.e., eat half a head of cabbage every day for a year.


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## penelopejane (Sep 22, 2018)

Yes and if you are especially intolerant of those substances (like salicylates) you can make yourself extremely sick by eating a “healthy” high vegetable and fruit diet. 

Everyone is different. 
Vive la différence!


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