# A Cream Soap Tutorial



## Lindy

First let's start with an easy recipe:

*Stage One

** Stearic Acid 8.4oz
* Sweet Almond Oil 2.55oz
* Coconut Oil 3.1oz
* Shea Butter 2.1oz
* Glycerin 5.0oz

*Stage Two*

* Water 3 oz
* Kaolin Clay .2oz

*Lye Water*

* Water 15.6 oz
* NaOH .6 oz
* KOH 2.2oz

*Super Cream Stage* 

* Stearic Acid .5 oz
* Glycerin .7 oz

Now we get to play.

You are going to put all of the stage one ingredients in the pot to melt together. I use a crock pot, but you could use a double boiler or even the oven if that is your preference:










Let's get geared up for safety now.

While you're waiting for this to melt get your lye ready. Measure your water as usual and set aside. You're going to measure into your lye cup your NaOH first, then add the KOH right on top. If you don't usually wear mask (uhm like me) you may want one for this as it is stinkier (technical term that). Add your lyes to your water like you normally would and you're going to hear a hissing sound as they mix into the water as you're stirring. I promise it's not a snake or precursor to an explosion. Well it shouldn't be anyways otherwise it is one very annoyed snake. So just set it aside.

Once your oils are melted you are going to weigh out your water and clay, combine them well then pour into your oils and stir.


----------



## Lindy

Now you're ready to add your lye. I like to preheat the bell part of my stickblender before adding the lye because the stearic acid attaches itself to anything cold and solidifies.

Have your stickblender in the oils and just give a quick twirl to make sure your clay is mixed it. Now add your lyes slowly stickblending the whole time....









Because I used full water on this it didn't chunk up on me as soon as the lye hit. That doesn't mean it won't to you, it can be rather temperamental on you so if it does, no reason to panic.

Well we made this far and I'm hoping no injuries - oh yeah - hold on now people you did put on your safety gear right? Whew....

We're going to let this cook for about 1 1/2 hours with frequent checking. I use high on my crockpot. In an oven I'm going to recommend about 180* F for the cook.


----------



## Lindy

Because I used full water on this it didn't chunk up on me as soon as the lye hit. That doesn't mean it won't to you, it can be rather temperamental on you so if it does, no reason to panic.

Well we made this far and I'm hoping no injuries - oh yeah - hold on now people you did put on your safety gear right? Whew....

We're going to let this cook for about 1 1/2 hours with frequent checking. I use high on my crockpot. In an oven I'm going to recommend about 180* F for the cook.

So once that magic number of 1 1/2 hours has skipped by you are going to want to measure out your super-cream ingredients and put them on the stove to melt using medium low temperature. You need to stay right there with it because it will melt and then turn into steam before you blink (of course I always have a customer come into the store at this moment). Pour this into your soap and you may need to chunk it in . Take the time to get it well mixed in, then return to the cook for another 30 minutes.









After the 30 minute cook you're going to remove it from the heat and let it sit overnight....




You'll notice I didn't add any fragrance at this point. I like to fragrance once I'm ready to package it which is at least 2 months away. If I wanted a colour I would add it when I added my clay. In fact that is the time to add anything you are wanting to include in this, oats, milk powder, any other additives would be put into that 3 oz of water and then added before the lye.

Next Day...
So this morning the mixture was still very stiff:


----------



## Lindy

I put it into my mixer to soften it up and see if I was going to need to add liquid (I was pretty sure since I want this to end up being in a lotion pump bottle):





I used my bread attachment as I don't want a lot of air being mixed into this since it's not a whipped soap and within a couple of minutes you could see it starting to soften:








But not enough so I added 4.25 ounces boiling water:


----------



## Lindy

I still wasn't quite happy so I added an additional 3 ounces and this was just the ticket and where I want it to be:








And that's all there is to it. This is going to "rot" for the next couple of months in a sealed container and I might peak at it now and then (yeah like any of us can keep from peaking at our creations - whatever 

Once it is fully cured/rotted you can add more liquid if you want and that is when you would add your fragrance. You will so love the feel of this and if you sell your customers will be beyond delighted.....

Thanks for letting me share this passion with you....


----------



## new12soap

SO generous of you, Lindy! Thank you!


----------



## shunt2011

Thank you for sharing Lindy....question do you need preservative in this at all?   I so want to try this.


----------



## Susie

Thank you so much!  I was wondering how to make cream soap.  Couple of questions, though:

1.  Is the kaolin clay absolutely necessary to the consistency?  

2.  I did not notice any preservative, is this correct?


----------



## snappyllama

Nice tutorial!  Another one to add to the list of things to try!


----------



## IrishLass

Awesome tutorial, Lindy! Thanks for sharing!


 IrishLass


----------



## HorseCreek

Thank you so much for the tutorial!! I have to ask though... any thoughts on GM as part of the water? Is it possible? Will it turn brown or just off white like CP?

Also wondering if the total water amount listed in the first post includes the extra you put in to make it thinner (pumpable) in the end, or if that amount is in addition to the first number listed.


----------



## Lindy

You're welcome everyone.

There are 2 schools of thought on the preservative debate. Some believe that preservative is absolutely necessary some say that it is soap and the environment of soap does not allow for bacteria or mold. So you need to decide for yourself. I personally don't believe that it needs preservative even though once (in 4 years) I had a problem. After studying what happened I have decided that it was an aberration caused by condensation so I am back to believing preservative is not needed.

But you need to make your own decision based on your own research.

 Goat Milk is fine in your Cream Soap as long as it is added prior to saponification being completed so I would add it just after you add the lye.  You will have to chunk it in.


----------



## HorseCreek

Lindy said:


> Goat Milk is fine in your Cream Soap as long as it is added prior to saponification being completed so I would add it just after you add the lye.  You will have to chunk it in.



I just want to be clear on this.. lol. I'm sorry for all the questions! 

As a portion of the initial water amount? Like you would in CP if you don't want to burn the milk?  Or as additional liquid?  You don't think you could mix it with the lye/water?


----------



## Lindy

You could put it in with your lye same as CP.


----------



## Stacy

Thank you Lindy!  This is so much more informative than anything else I found to date!


----------



## Susie

Anyone have a cheap source of small amounts of kaolin clay?

*EDIT* Nevermind.  Found some online for really cheap.


----------



## new12soap

Any chance this tute could be made a sticky?


----------



## Saponista

Thank you so much for this lindy. I'm definitely going to give it a go


----------



## Lindy

I would love to hear about your results and how you like doing it.


----------



## seven

thank you so much for the tute Lindy. i've made my 1st cream soap around 2 months ago. question, can i whip it again and add water at this stage? it's a bit drying on my skin, so i'm also thinking, perhaps adding a bit more glycerin?


----------



## Ellacho

Oh my ~~I did not even see this thread until today! Wow Lindy, thank you so much for sharing another amazing tutorial! I am still loving and enjoying my goatmilk lotion! You must have spent a lot of time taking pictures, writing the post and uploading them all! Thank you for your time to do everything for us! I've never made cream soap before, but I must try it now.  I am so excited and I cannot wait to get all of my ingredients. Thank you, with a big hug !


----------



## Lindy

*Seven* - Yes you can add more water and whip again, but be very careful with how much water.  Cream Soap is best left as long as possible.  6 months is not unreasonable - I have some that is 3 years old and it is amazing and such a pretty pearly colour.  (I kept some to watch as it ages to see what it's like).

*Ellacho* - thank you, I enjoyed making the tutorial.


----------



## KristaY

Wow ~ Lindy, you're amazing! Great tutorial. It's very easy to follow and understand your steps. I've made many batches of HP LS but no cream soap yet so it's going on my to-do list. That darn list just keeps getting longer, lol. Thank you so much for sharing and doing such a great job teaching!


----------



## TVivian

This is so great!!


----------



## Lindy

Thank you ladies....


----------



## clairissa

Thanks for the great tutorial.  I have mine cooking right now.  Fingers crossed.


----------



## Rowan

Wow, not sure how I missed this thread but I can't wait to try it. My list is getting longer and longer! Thanks so much Lindy for posting this. You really are the most wonderful people on this forum for sharing so freely and its really appreciated.


----------



## Lindy

You are welcome.  Cream soap becomes very addicting.... the only drawback is the cure (rot) time.


----------



## Obsidian

I don't know how I missed this thread either but I will definitely try this soon. I do have to ask, why steric as the super cream? Could I sub something like coco butter or shea? I'm not so great with numbers, what is the ratio of NaOH to KoH? I will most likely replace the almond oil with avocado.


----------



## Lindy

Stearic Acid is the very base of the recipe.  Everything else builds from there.  Supercream is different from superfat so you really can't switch it out.


----------



## Obsidian

I though that might be the case, thanks for the confirmation.


----------



## RhondaJ

Lindy said:


> You are welcome.  Cream soap becomes very addicting.... the only drawback is the cure (rot) time.



Thanks for the great tutorial Lindy  I'm going to whipping this one up this week 

I do have a question though about the rot time. I know there's probably a very good reason for such a long cure/rot, but why is this so different from bar soap and liquid soap? 

We're using mostly KOH, and liquid soap using KOH doesn't need the long resting/curing period that NaOH soaps need. Same with the shave soaps that are a combo of the 2, they don't seem to need such a long cure time. Obviously everything is better with a long cure time, but all I've read on cream soap is that it's a MUST - minimum 8 weeks, and preferably closer to 16 weeks. 

My chemistry resistent brain just can't figure out the difference between this and say the shave soap or even liquid soaps?


----------



## Lindy

Hi Rhonda ~ the longer the cure the gentler the soap.  With so much stearic acid it is harsher than a regular or shaving soap.  With the HP shaving soaps they do better with a longer cure as well but there is not anywhere near the amount  of stearic acid in them.


----------



## RhondaJ

Lindy said:


> Hi Rhonda ~ the longer the cure the gentler the soap.  With so much stearic acid it is harsher than a regular or shaving soap.  With the HP shaving soaps they do better with a longer cure as well but there is not anywhere near the amount  of stearic acid in them.



I figured the stearic had something to do with it  Thanks for clearing that up for me


----------



## Lindy

You're welcome


----------



## kdaniels8811

I have a gallon or more of creme soap that has been rotting almost a year, guess it is time to make some more!  Cream soap is the most decadent lovely soap there is but does need to age, I find 6 months is good, more is better.


----------



## Lindy

Absolutely agreed


----------



## seven

i am doing Lindy's recipe as we speak.. so excited! This is my 2nd cream soap.


----------



## Lindy

Awesome Seven, let us know how it turns out.  Isn't Cream Soap fun?


----------



## seven

yeah it IS fun! i doubled the recipe  it is currently in the crock pot, doing its overnight rest. i did try to whip it before but it was too hard, i think i better let it rest for a lil while. will update with pics later.


----------



## LBussy

I just got pointed to this thread so I have a few questions if you will indulge me?

I don't understand what "super cream" is, or why you use stearic for it.  You say it is extremely important but I'm not following why.  In the context of superfat I want this for conditioning, however stearic acid/stearin is solid at room temp.  Anything you can tell me to help it sink into my thick skull will be appreciated.  What makes my shaving soap what it is relates to the fats/butters I use as SF.  Looking at this as a way to maybe make a cream shaving soap, that presents an issue.

Second, what the heck is "rot?"  I understand what cure is, but not why you would say rot/cure in this context.

Lastly, I'm afraid I don't believe any noticeable chemical reactions happen in a longer cure of KOH-only, SA/CO-based soaps (shaving soaps).  I have new tubs and I have some 6+ months old and they both act the same on my face.  My face is pretty durned sensitive compared to my hands and shortcomings in process and recipe are easy to highlight.  What makes this different?

Thanks in advance for any help or clarification.


----------



## dosco

I'll pile on as well.

Firstly, thank you for that informative post. Good stuff.

The process raises a few questions for me.

1. There is reference to the recipe being "harsh" due to the stearic  acid. Why? Is there zero superfat, zero excess lye, and excess acid? (it  would be nice to see a soapcalc analysis of the recipe presented in  that thread).

2. What's special about adding the stearic and glycerin to the cook  after the batch has turned to mashed potatoes? Why couldn't you add  everything to the pot at once?

3. Seems like this would be highly applicable to shave soap, which has a high stearic content.

Cheers-
Dave


----------



## LBussy

dosco said:


> 1. There is reference to the recipe being "harsh" due to the stearic  acid. Why? Is there zero superfat, zero excess lye, and excess acid? (it  would be nice to see a soapcalc analysis of the recipe presented in  that thread).


Well, SoapCalc doesn't do two lye batches but SummerBee does.  I've attached the "reverse calc" I did and it comes to 17% superfat.  Note that I only to get the lye as close as possible given the proportions stated ... I did not make any effort to separate out things, address process, whatever.  



> 2. What's special about adding the stearic and glycerin to the cook  after the batch has turned to mashed potatoes? Why couldn't you add  everything to the pot at once?


Glycerin should not make any difference except to the consistency for the process, it does not react.  

We've had discussions previously about the "promiscuous ion dance" and if anything the longer this soap sits (cures) the more likely the mixture will reach equilibrium ... the same equilibrium you'd have if you mixed everything at once.  That's my hypothesis anyway.



> 3. Seems like this would be highly applicable to shave soap, which has a high stearic content.


Well that's what caught our eye ... except the ultra high superfat would kill the lather I'm betting. 

View attachment Cream Soap - Lindy.pdf


----------



## biarine

I am impress with the cream soap, one day I want to make but them but I am still learning in soap making. I need to start from simple and then to very complicated.


----------



## Lindy

Okay guys let's see if I can clarify.

Supercream is not superfat, they are 2 different beasts.  As CP crafters you already understand a SF.  Supercream means that by adding additional stearic acid you are creating a thicker cream that is creates a denser lather, like what you are looking for in a good shaving soap.  This is also great for doing sugar/salt scrubs and any type of soapy product you like.

Not for the reason of the long rot/cure.  Stearic acid is very drying and for whatever reason (not a scientist here, just a mostly humble soapmaker  ) a longer cure/rot makes a big difference in the gentleness of the soap.  I have been making cream soap for a few years now (since 2010) and by doing my own testing I can tell you that it is true, but as always I recommend checking it out yourself.

Lee as for how my shaving soaps are (not this recipe) check out B&B for Malaspina Soaps....  Nothing but good reviews although my solid shaving soaps can be a little finicky to get that sweet spot for lathering.


----------



## Obsidian

Would it help to add a bit of shea as SF along with the super cream? If so, how much?


----------



## LBussy

Lindy said:


> Lee as for how my shaving soaps are (not this recipe) check out B&B for Malaspina Soaps....  Nothing but good reviews although my solid shaving soaps can be a little finicky to get that sweet spot for lathering.


Lindy, thanks for sharing and answering my questions.

To be just completely, brutally honest (surprise from me, right? ), I don't trust most of the reviews on B&B.  That's not to say I don't believe your soap is great, just that ANYONE can post a review there.  You can find fanboys for a lot of "soapers" we know for a fact are just re-branding commercial bases.  It's rare for people to take a soapmaker who participates in this small community to task.  I'm sure you can think of such a thread there in the last year where an "artisan" soaper was taken to task - physical threats were made to the original reviewer ... bad blood ensued, and so on.

There may as well be an iron curtain between the US and Canada to make it even worse.  Shipping soap across the border in small quantities either way is ridiculously expensive.  If a shaver in Canada says your soap is great, that person is likely only comparing that to widely imported/exported commercial soaps.  I'm betting you think your soap is a WHOLE lot better than those, and among the best artisanal soaps, but how do the shavers know with a limited sample?   Likewise I expect US shavers who have used your soaps are rare compared to the distribution of US-made artisanal soaps.  Maybe I'm wrong and you have a US distributor?  

I need to sit down and re-read this thread and your process because obviously and as Dave (dosco) pointed out, there are some things that are so close to shaving soap that it piques our interest.  The only way to know is to try it.  "Real Soon Now (TM)" I will give a cream soap a go and see what I can learn from it.

PLEASE accept this in the spirit it was intended ... I'm just a natural skeptic and I over-evaluate everything.  I greatly appreciate you sharing this tutorial and I will certainly return to share my thoughts after I try it out.

One last question:  What's the smallest batch you think would be effective?  There are some physical limits to the "creaming" phase I imagine.


----------



## dosco

Lee:
I'm thinking of making a 1lb batch of 100% KOH shave soap from lard, CO, and stearic to try the "creaming" process ... only problem is that my schedule is pretty full for the next week so I'm not sure when I'll get to it. Sigh.

I am worried about such a high SF ... is the point of the creamed soap to simply put it on the face and shave it off (like canned goo)? Or is the user supposed to make lather with it using "the normal process?"

Cheers-
Dave


----------



## LBussy

I'm wondering the same myself ... I may check on B&B to see if someone has tub in the US and they'd be willing to share so I can experience it as Lindy intended to have it experienced as a shave soap.


----------



## Lindy

Cream Shaving Soap is meant to be loaded on a brush in the same manner as you would any other shave soap.  You need to reduce your superfat for a shaving soap, but to where is up to you.  Play with it.  Here is a picture of the brush using my shaving soap recipe, which again, is *not* this recipe.


----------



## LBussy

dosco said:


> Lee:
> I'm thinking of making a 1lb batch of 100% KOH shave soap from lard, CO, and stearic to try the "creaming" process ... only problem is that my schedule is pretty full for the next week so I'm not sure when I'll get to it. Sigh.


I have about 3 more weeks before I'll have time on the weekends.  So many things I want to try!  I will try this recipe as a cream soap "primer", then expand from there.



Lindy said:


> Here is a picture of the brush using my shaving soap recipe, which again, is *not* this recipe.


I get it ... "Pictures may not represent actual product, do not take internally, discontinue if bleeding of the eyes or ears starts, does not prevent halitosis, your mileage may vary."  

I just intend to start with this recipe so I can use it as an example.  So ... how do you package/dispense THIS recipe?


----------



## Lindy

It goes into 4 ounce jars.  But I do have some tubes that I am going to play with; the biggest challenge there is labeling.


----------



## LBussy

Lindy said:


> It goes into 4 ounce jars.  But I do have some tubes that I am going to play with; the biggest challenge there is labeling.


I thought the challenge there would be stuffing it all in that little hole!


----------



## Lindy

Hah no - it will be the getting a label to stick!


----------



## kchaystack

I would imagine one of those flavor injectors that the BBQ pit masters all use to get butter and oil into a pork butt would make it much easier?




LBussy said:


> I thought the challenge there would be stuffing it all in that little hole!


----------



## Lindy

Actually I have a manual filling machine like THIS and it works really well to fill tubes as well as bottles and jars.


----------



## LBussy

kchaystack said:


> I would imagine one of those flavor injectors that the BBQ pit masters all use to get butter and oil into a pork butt would make it much easier?


Sorry, was a poor joke.  Metal tubes are often filled from the large end and then crimped shut.  Now that I think about it I'm not actually sure how the plastic ones are done but ... anyway.


----------



## kchaystack

I am sure much the same way.  But I was not entirely serious in my reply.  




LBussy said:


> Sorry, was a poor joke.  Metal tubes are often filled from the large end and then crimped shut.  Now that I think about it I'm not actually sure how the plastic ones are done but ... anyway.


----------



## Lindy

The plastic ones are filled at the end where the cap is.


----------



## kharmon320

Thanks for the tutorial Lindy!


----------



## Lindy

You're welcome Kerrie.


----------



## lizard1232

Thank you so much for this tutorial, Lindy. I've been wanting to make cream soap for quite a while and was just too intimidated until I saw this thread. I made it yesterday and just set it to rot after a round in the mixer. I'm always so giddy after trying something new and this is no different. Thanks again for helping me overcome my apprehension.


----------



## Lindy

You are very welcome


----------



## jnl

What is cream soap used for?  Just body scrubs?  Or can you pump it out and use it as hand soap?


----------



## jnl

what does it look like after a 6 month rot?  does anyone have any pictures?  i think the pictures I have seen are just freshly made stuff.


----------



## Dorymae

Cream soap is too thick for a pump. It has the consistency of whipped cream and after it has cured (rotted) it takes on a beautiful sheen. 

It can be used lots of ways. As it is, a luxurious soap. Adding an exfoliant it can be a nice gardeners soap. Added to a scrub it makes a foaming scrub. 

Cream soap is the bomb but for it to be good it must be cured (rotted) for a long time, which is why you rarely see the real stuff for sale, and when you do it is pricey. Etsy is full of imitations and "whipped soap", it is not cream soap, the ingredients give it away.


----------



## rogue

Thank you so much for the tutorial. This is my next skill set I want to work on. I tried to join a certain cream soap group looking for advice but I'm apparently not cool enough


----------



## LBussy

Did you use the same username?


----------



## rogue

No. I have a yahoo address I've been using since circa1997-1998. The thought of trying to remember yet another e-mail address/password combo makes me want to cry. I've got them for work (medical job), soaping business stuff ( I think I have 3?) there's 3 from Mac I deal with.....remember letters, postcards? It was so exciting as a kid


----------



## LBussy

I hear ya ... I have tried a lot of different password programs but since I am on a different platform all the time none of them really work all over the place.  

Anyway ... this is my last weekend after more than a year of weekends being full for me.  So, hopefully starting next week I can try some new things like this cream soap.


----------



## TRBeck

I'm due to try a cream soap as well. It seems a natural outgrowth of lots of things I already do regularly (shave soap, HP, etc.). Thanks for this great tutorial, Lindy! Hope to try it in the next couple of weeks, although rot time dictates that the final result will not be apparent for some time.


----------



## rogue

This seems like an "investment " in soaping & scrub making futures.


----------



## DeeAnna

"...What's special about adding the stearic and glycerin to the cook after the batch has turned to mashed potatoes? Why couldn't you add everything to the pot at once?..."

Adding stearic and glycerin "super cream" after the cook does seem inefficient and rather silly at first glance, but I strongly suspect there are good reasons for doing this. It's too bad the theory and practice of cream soap making seem to be shrouded in mystery, but it is what it is. Being a curious sort (as y'all have probably noticed), I did my first cream-style shaving soap a few weeks ago following Lindy's basic procedure. I evaluated the process as I made the soap. Given my background in chemical process engineering and soap making, I think I'm qualified to take a stab at answering these questions, subject to revision as I get more experience.

First off, stearic acid has two basic functions in the bath and body world -- stearic-as-soap and stearic-as-thickener. The two are not necessarily the same. Soapers don't usually think of stearic acid as a thickener and texture modifier, but lotion makers use it routinely in their products for these benefits.

Stearic acid added after the cook will help the product to be thicker and less sticky. If you added all of the stearic to the soap pot, the other fats in the recipe are much more likely to be the "superfat" since stearic saponifies so readily. This is not going to give the same results of thickening and texture modification as when you would add stearic after the cook as a "superfat" aka supercream. 

One of the complaints about adding stearic as the thickener is that the cream soap can end up rather waxy feeling, so it's clear that stearic-as-thickener should be used with a light hand. 

Adding glycerin after the cook will act as a processing and mixing aid. It will help loosen the sticky, heavy soap so you can more easily mix the soap, incorporate the stearic, and whip the soap to a lighter texture (if that's what you want to do). If you add all the glycerin to the soap pot, it will not function as a processing aid at the time of mixing.

A close analogy is making a cake by hand. Some recipes have you cream the sugar and butter, beat in the eggs, and then add the flour and milk, alternating about 1/4 of the flour, 1/4 of the liquid, 1/4 flour, etc. until all of the flour and milk are stirred in. You could mix in all of the flour in one go and then mix in all of the milk, or vice versa, but the process would be considerably more difficult.

One could use water as a processing aid, and I think some cream soap makers do, but water evaporates, so the end texture of the soap will change with time. Glycerin has its drawbacks too, but evaporating is not one of them. 

Soap is more soluble in glycerin than in water, so that is another consideration for using at least some glycerin for efficient processing.


----------



## DeeAnna

Another question that's been asked is why let a cream soap "rot" (ugh, I hate that term!) for a good time after being made. 

If you think back to comments you might have read about cream soap, one of the things people sometimes say is that cream soap becomes more "pearly" with age. The reason why this pearly effect is happening is that the soap molecules are getting organized. The molecules in a fresh cream soap are an amorphous (random/disorganized) mess. 

As time goes on, the insoluble soaps gradually organize themselves into solid structures of rod and plate shaped crystals. These rods/plates reflect light in a way that an amorphous system does not, hence the pearly look. 

The soluble soaps also organize themselves into tidy structures of micelles within the fluid phase of the soap's structure. All of this crystallization and organization tends to make the soap milder to the skin, better lathering, and longer-lived. This also happens in bar soaps, but the changes caused by curing are not quite as obvious to the naked eye. I mostly see the changes to my bar soap in terms of its performance -- lather production, longevity, and mildness to the skin.

Whether the benefits of a longer cure are worth the wait or not depends on the maker and his or her perceptions of the changes.


----------



## HoneyLady

Lindy --

Thankee for the tutorial with PICTURES!  Dee Anna -- thankee for the explanations! If you ever give up engineering, please consider being a teacher.  I might have passed HS Chem if I'd had someone who spoke layman.

Lindy, I wonder if you can give us some ideas for percentages with this sort of thing.  Obviously, stearic acid is the base.  But what about the rest?  If I use all solid oils (PKO, CO, Lard, shea) does it make a stiff soap?  If I use all liquid oils (almond, avocado, olive) does it make it sloppy?  What about lanolin?

I know most CP makers use a combo of solid/liquid oils based on preferences, recipes, etc.  I know most lotion makers use different oils depending on the amount of glide, occlusion, and sink-in-ability they desire for the final texture.

Just wondering how all that plays into something that will never be solid -- as opposed to a bar -- or not.

Thanks!
~Honey Lady~


----------



## Lindy

Just a quick note on Deeanna posts.  Although you can whip this soap it does not have the structure to hold that whip and will quickly flatten back down.  I do "whip" mine with a dough hook prior to putting it to bed if I am doing a small batch.  If I am doing a large one then I use a paint mixer and a drill.

Honeylady, other than the base being stearic acid you are not limited to any percentages of oils/butters.  You can make this as a single oil/butter soap if you chose.  I know a lady that made a shaving soap using just olive oil which in the world of wet shaving is a big no no and yet the group of hard core wet shavers she tried it on all loved it.  I personally don't have the guts to try that due to label appeal, or should I say not.

The amount of Stearic is going to determine the density of the soap rather than the oils.  I tend to do a blend of oils/butters, but that is simply my preference.


----------



## LBussy

Lindy said:


> I know a lady that made a shaving soap using just olive oil which in the world of wet shaving is a big no no and yet the group of hard core wet shavers she tried it on all loved it.


There's always someone that wants to eat someone elses cooking.  I'm sure you've seen the folks on one of the Shaving forums all arguing about which soap is better - the two contenders both using the M&P same base.

Tentatively planning to try this recipe this coming weekend.  Of course I've said that about a lot of things.


----------



## Lindy

LOL -yup but they can't seem to see that.  They could make the same soap if they had a mind to.  Mind being the most important part of that sentence.  :lolno:


----------



## ParadiseFarm

Hi, did anyone ever try this with GM? I make GM CP and would love to try this. My thoughts would be it would go brown though, I've tried liquid GM soap and it does go brown. But I do use 100% GM as liquid and go from frozen so that is all my experience.


----------



## abc

Lindy said:


> Just a quick note on Deeanna posts.  Although you can whip this soap it does not have the structure to hold that whip and will quickly flatten back down.



Can anything be added to keep it whipped?


----------



## Lindy

Pretty much but if you add botanicals or dairy products you will need to find a preservative that will work in the high pH.


----------



## abc

I will rephrase. Can anything be added to give the soap structure to stay  whipped and keep it from flattening out?


----------



## Lindy

I haven't found anything, but then I have tried.  Whipped soap is a different product and this was always meant to be more of a creamy style soap.


----------



## abc

Lindy said:


> I haven't found anything, but then I have tried.  Whipped soap is a different product and this was always meant to be more of a creamy style soap.



Thanks


----------



## Lindy

abc said:


> Thanks


 
That should have said I *haven't *tried.


----------



## rogue

Any thought to boric acid vs steric. I was lucky enough to get a hold of Failors book & summerbee's calculator talks about using vs it also.


----------



## Lindy

2 very different ingredients with different properties.  I wouldn't sub them for each other.  Cream soap is based on stearic acid and from there you choose your oils depending on what properties you want to bring to the soap.


----------



## rogue

I meant for the supercream. I did the whip on my first batch today. I apparently was not paying close attention to my recipe yesterday when I realized at supercream time,"oh most of that glycerin shoulda been in there already. Hmmmm."  Seems to be fine but softer than expected. I set aside 150gm & added a gm of boric in 5cc water to see how it changes it. I'll redo the whole thing this week the 'right' way to compare also so I can see what I've got when I actually use it in a few months & see what difference the timing of glycerin makes.


----------



## DeeAnna

Why do you think the boric acid is suitable for the supercream? I don't get it.


----------



## rogue

If you plug into their calc at summerbee's http://summerbeemeadow.com/content/advanced-calculator-solid-cream-or-liquid-soaps it gives you options for steric or boric acid. I know Failor book uses it for thickening I don't off the top of head remember supercream & I'm at BF house. Need to re-read again.


----------



## DeeAnna

Okay. I understand boric acid is sometimes used for cream soap, but I can't say it's as often used as stearic acid from all the recipes I've collected for this type of soap. But hey if it works, it works.


----------



## rogue

Looked at Failors book this am. Boric supposedly 'pulls' out fatty acids to supercream by neutralizing hydroxide half. Interesting.


----------



## LBussy

I think what DeeAna is raising her eyebrows about is that stearic acid is a fatty acid while boric acid is an acid of a metalloid.  As something to use to lower the pH of a substance it's probably good because it's readily soluble in water.  It will not saponify and smart money is against it creaming anything.  I suppose if it reacts with the lye preferentially that technically leaves cree stearic acid for creaming but ... 

I dunno, I have to go back to what that old man told me once:  If you want to learn, first imitate.  Start with a known good recipe then branch out.  That's always worked for me.  By "you" in this I'm not pointing at anyone, it's just the saying.


----------



## dosco

rogue said:


> Looked at Failors book this am. Boric supposedly 'pulls' out fatty acids to supercream by neutralizing hydroxide half. Interesting.



Sounds something like "by using boric acid you'll lower the pH of a soap enough to convert some of the soap salts back into fatty acids."

To translate, by adding the acid you're "un-making" your soap.

Not sure why you'd do that with a salt of a metal (instead of a salt of a fatty acid) since the thought here for "supercream" is to add more stearic (fatty acid).

Cheers-
Dave


----------



## DeeAnna

Dosco and Lee are reading my mind. Not saying boric acid won't work ... just that I don't think the method is particularly common anymore. 

Adding stearic acid after the cook will neutralize any lye excess by making stearic soap, which has the beauty of just making more of what you have already made. Stearic acid is also going to provide a consistent type of thickening if you are adding an excess of stearic for that purpose.

Adding boric acid after the cook will neutralize any lye excess by making sodium borate (aka borax). Some people argue this might lower the pH slightly, but borax is still alkaline, so I can't get too excited about that. The thickening created by an excess of boric acid due to breaking down the soap into fatty acids will vary depending on the fatty acids in any given recipe -- some fatty acids do not thicken as much as others do. If you read about the use of boric acid to thicken liquid soap, you'll see this inconsistency to be a real concern with liquid soap makers. Not to mention there are some health concerns about borax that make people increasingly leery of using it in their soap and other body products.

But, hey, YMMV and all that.


----------



## rogue

I wonder if it was a cost issue at one point. Boric being relatively cheap and the needed quantity quite low. Until the age of readily available Palm steric (which btw if someone has a source for non palm stearic I love to know!) I bet it was a lot more $$$


----------



## boyago

rogue said:


> Looked at Failors book this am. Boric supposedly 'pulls' out fatty acids to supercream by neutralizing hydroxide half. Interesting.



Are you talking about her "Making Cream Soap" book?  I've been looking for it and can only find the one copy on Amazon for $3,097 + $3.99 shipping.  And I mean Pfff, come on, who's gonna pay four bucks for shipping!


----------



## Dorymae

boyago said:


> Are you talking about her "Making Cream Soap" book?  I've been looking for it and can only find the one copy on Amazon for $3,097 + $3.99 shipping.  And I mean Pfff, come on, who's gonna pay four bucks for shipping!



The paperback is only $79.00. Might help you with the shipping!

Or libraries in Kansas and one in Wyoming carry it!


----------



## dosco

rogue said:


> Until the age of readily available Palm steric (which btw if someone has a source for non palm stearic I love to know!) I bet it was a lot more $$$



Fully hydrogenated castor oil, also known as castor wax, is evidently high in stearic acid.

Discussion here.

Regards-
Dave


----------



## boyago

Dorymae said:


> The paperback is only $79.00. Might help you with the shipping!


Found it at thesage.com for $7.

https://www.thesage.com/catalog/Books.html

I think I might hold off though as my to read stack is ever-growing.


----------



## boyago

dosco said:


> Fully hydrogenated castor oil, also known as castor wax, is evidently high in stearic acid.
> 
> Discussion here.
> 
> Regards-
> Dave



According to Soapcalc soy wax is around 87% stearic and I think it's more available and cheaper than fully hydrogenated castor which btw is also sometimes labeled as non-petroleum jelly.


----------



## Lindy

Cream Soap & Liquid Soap are very different animals.  You would use Boric Acid to neutralize LS because you're doing it at 0% SF or lower.


----------



## DeeAnna

Lindy -- Failor really did write about about cream soap being neutralized/thickened with boric acid. I don't have her cream soap making book, but here's a quote from someone who does: "...my initial attempt at making cream soap (below) follows the method outlined in c. failor's book and uses a stove-top double boiler, and is later supercreamed with boric acid...." Source: http://www.saveonscents.com/skinesscentuals/Cream1.html

"...I wonder if it was a cost issue at one point..."

This use of boric acid appears to be a method created by Failor and/or the handcraft soapmakers from the era when she developed her skills and wrote her book. 

Stearic acid or stearin (a high stearic-palmitic fat) has been available for well over 100 years. From reading old soapmaking manuals, it's pretty clear that medium to large scale soapmakers did not use boric acid to neutralize excess lye. They used fat to neutralize.


----------



## dosco

boyago said:


> According to Soapcalc soy wax is around 87% stearic and I think it's more available and cheaper than fully hydrogenated castor which btw is also sometimes labeled as non-petroleum jelly.



I thought castor wax was a solid? Not sure how it could be "jelly" ...?

-Dave


----------



## boyago

dosco said:


> I thought castor wax was a solid? Not sure how it could be "jelly" ...?
> 
> -Dave


Me too... perhaps when I found it for sale the product was actually just partially hydrogenated.  I imagine that would make it more like vegetable shortening and more jelly-like than what I imagined as it looking like (soy wax or stearic acid).


----------



## rogue

Someone else just made the soy wax recommendation to me. I'm going to have to try it. 
Failor's book is really very thin. I need a bit more time with it then I'll offer it up to whoever wants it with the promise the pass on the love


----------



## Obsidian

I'm off the the soap supply store to pick up some KOH today. I'll be making my cream soap tomorrow, so excited


----------



## kchaystack

Obsidian said:


> I'm off the the soap supply store to pick up some KOH today. I'll be making my cream soap tomorrow, so excited



You have a brick and mortar supply store?  I am SO envious!roblem:


----------



## Obsidian

Yep, it doesn't have a lot of stuff but I can get my lyes and overpriced EO's/FO's. They had a bunch of brilliantly bright super fine glitters but I had to walk away lol.


----------



## Dorymae

For those near enough to Phoenix there are two places I've found so far that sell lye in bulk and Eo's, molds, etc.   It is so nice not to have to worry about shipping costs!


----------



## Lbrown123

Thanks for sharing Lindy! That soap looks so pretty! I can't wait ti try it!


----------



## Obsidian

My cream soap is finished, can't say I'm a fan of making it but I'm glad I did. Went off without a hitch but when I was scooping the whipped soap into a bucket, I found some chunks that hadn't gotten whipped up. Can I whip it again in a month or two?


----------



## Lindy

dosco said:


> I thought castor wax was a solid? Not sure how it could be "jelly" ...?
> 
> -Dave


 
Castor Oil  & Beeswax makes a non-petroleum jelly.



Obsidian said:


> My cream soap is finished, can't say I'm a fan of making it but I'm glad I did. Went off without a hitch but when I was scooping the whipped soap into a bucket, I found some chunks that hadn't gotten whipped up. Can I whip it again in a month or two?


 
You can whip it the next day again.


Deanna - Thank you, I didn't know that.  Boric acid certainly does not make sense to me.  You superfat as well as supercream your cream soap so why would you need to neutralize it?  Unless she was working from the same basics as LS where you do need to unless you have a slight superfat.

Interesting.

LBrown I'm happy to help....


----------



## Obsidian

Thank you. I went ahead and whipped it again, it had softened quite a bit in a few hours so this time it whipped really nice. Its already starting to look pearlescent, can't wait until I can start making stuff with it.


----------



## DeeAnna

Lindy ... you hit the nail square on its head. roblem:

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD


----------



## Lindy

LOL  Yeah depending on what I'm making and what the end use is I will do a 20% superfat for the conditioning and it creates a nice creamy lather.  I've got some I need to check on that is 4 years old.  That is going to be some amazing soap.


----------



## Lbrown123

I have a stupid question! When you make this or shaving soap for that matter do you cover the crock pot and let it condense on the lid and drip back into the pot? Or leave the lid off and let it evaporate while cooking?


----------



## LBussy

Lbrown123 said:


> I have a stupid question! When you make this or shaving soap for that matter do you cover the crock pot and let it condense on the lid and drip back into the pot? Or leave the lid off and let it evaporate while cooking?


I leave the lid on (making shaving soap), because a crock pot is really not intended to be an "open lid cooker."  It still evaporates a bit of water.


----------



## Corilee13

I want to make a face scrub to help with my breakouts and I was directed to this tutorial. I'm not sure if this has already been answered, but is there a good calculator for this? I have allergies to certain oils (nuts) so I'll have to use a few different oils from what you use in your recipe and I want to make sure I get it right. The calculators I've found (Summerbeemeadow) call for way less glycerin (none except at the supercream stage) than this recipe and also a lot more water. So I'm a little lost.


----------



## rogue

The glycerine I believe is supposed to be split between part replaced for the initial water. The rest at the end. I added all at the end and got very, very soft soap. Almost semi liquid


----------



## Corilee13

Corilee13 said:


> I want to make a face scrub to help with my breakouts and I was directed to this tutorial. I'm not sure if this has already been answered, but is there a good calculator for this? I have allergies to certain oils (nuts) so I'll have to use a few different oils from what you use in your recipe and I want to make sure I get it right. The calculators I've found (Summerbeemeadow) call for way less glycerin (none except at the supercream stage) than this recipe and also a lot more water. So I'm a little lost.




It also doesn't call for any stearic acid in the batch, only at the super cream stage.


----------



## Corilee13

Corilee13 said:


> It also doesn't call for any stearic acid in the batch, only at the super cream stage.



Or is the stearic acid/glycerin just part of the oils and can be subbed for other oils?


----------



## DeeAnna

Glycerin doesn't saponify, so you wouldn't ever want to sub it for a fat/oil. 

Stearic acid added after the cook should remain pretty much as stearic acid, assuming you formulate the recipe with some amount of lye discount. Added as a supercream ingredient, stearic acid thickens the soap, but it doesn't itself become soap. This is a special case in soaping because this supercream stearic acid should not be included in the fats that you want to saponify.

Bear in mind the makers of the Summerbeemeadow calc chose certain parameters on which to base their cream soap calculations, but their parameters are not the only ones that will create a successful cream soap. There is a fair bit of variation amongst cream soap recipes.


----------



## Corilee13

DeeAnna said:


> Glycerin doesn't saponify, so you wouldn't ever want to sub it for a fat/oil.
> 
> Stearic acid added after the cook should remain pretty much as stearic acid, assuming you formulate the recipe with some amount of lye discount. Added as a supercream ingredient, stearic acid thickens the soap, but it doesn't itself become soap. This is a special case in soaping because this supercream stearic acid should not be included in the fats that you want to saponify.
> 
> Bear in mind the makers of the Summerbeemeadow calc chose certain parameters on which to base their cream soap calculations, but their parameters are not the only ones that will create a successful cream soap. There is a fair bit of variation amongst cream soap recipes.



If glycerin doesn't saponify, why is it added in the oils stage in the recipes I'm finding? And I should've worded it the other way around, subbing other oils for the glycerin in the recipe.


----------



## LBussy

Corilee13 said:


> If glycerin doesn't saponify, why is it added in the oils stage in the recipes I'm finding?


Because that's the last time to mix it in very evenly.  It distributes itself very well at that stage.


----------



## Corilee13

LBussy said:


> Because that's the last time to mix it in very evenly.  It distributes itself very well at that stage.



Ah got it  that makes sense since it becomes so difficult to stir later.


----------



## wiacomm

Absolutely wonderful tutorial! I'm making your recipe today thank you so much


----------



## DeeAnna

"...subbing other oils for the glycerin..."

I suppose you could try that; there's nothing saying it won't work. I personally haven't tried it, so I can't say if it would be a bust or a good thing. 

My guess is that adding more fat in place of glycerin might have two possible downsides. As superfat goes up, the lather goes down -- even faster than adding extra glycerin. Also the added fat, especially if it's a liquid fat or low melt point solid fat, may loosen the texture of the cream soap too much, even to the point where the soap separates.


----------



## Lindy

The glycerin is adding a conditioning agent to the cream soap without diminishing the lather to the same degree as that amount of oil would. The stearic acid is truly the backbone of cream soap so you don't want to eliminate it in the recipe. Play with the percentages to see if you find a level you're happy with but make the basic recipe first and then see what you want to change or play with.


----------



## Lbrown123

I am so disappointed in myself! I tried the recipe, got to the cream part, added the extra glycerin and steric, set the timer for 30 minuites and fell asleep exhausted from my day. I woke up this morning expecting to find the crock pot off but it was still on low! I added a little water and mashed it in but I think it's a bust. I. Tried a hunk in the sink and no bubbles. I am going out to church to pray for wisdom and patience.


----------



## DeeAnna

My cream soap doesn't bubble a lot either. Remember, cream soap is a high stearic soap, so it's naturally going to have a dense creamy lather that will develop more slowly.

Lindy may have more words of wisdom about what to do with your batch, since she's the "cream soap queen". I'll just encourage you to not give up. Cooking all night might make the soap a little drier due to water loss, but if the batch were mine, I'd just be ready to add a bit more water and have patience when mixing.


----------



## boyago

Not sure if it's relevant but I was putzing around with a cream like experiment and wound up with and accidentally making a temperature controlled soap.  It only suds and foams at around 80F and then takes off the warmer it gets.


----------



## Lbrown123

I just as well whip it anyway. It will not be snow white but well see in a few months! I don't have enough attention span for hot process!


----------



## Lindy

I find all soap lathers better at warmer temperatures.  I find that cream soap does not give you big bubbles unless you add a surfactant and even then you will find that the lather ends up being more creamy than big bubbles but it would start out with the first bubbles being bigger due to the flash bubbles of surfactants.  If you were to do that you could start making your own foaming bath butter.


----------



## rogue

I find that trying to melt the stearic without some glycerin is a nightmare. Way easier to melt together. 

On my quest to go total Palm free...I made some emulsified sugar/salt scrub this weekend & subbed out the stearic with soywax & it's lovely. I'm going after cream soap without stearic but subbing the SW this week. Small batch. Fingers crossed. Will remember to add glycerin in stages although may not need as much fluid.


----------



## Lindy

Stearic Acid is the bones of Cream Soap.  I don't know what you will end up with.  BTW when using stearic add it to your oils to melt.


----------



## rogue

Soy wax is supposedly 80% stearic acid. The "stearic" we get from suppliers isn't 100% stearic acid it is apparently a mix I believe of palmitic also which makes sense since much of it is coming from Palm oil. 100% stearic is tech grade is mondo pricey. There was a whole conversation about this on another board. Someone was getting ocd about his calculations. I'm just trying to put my chemistry hat back on & get away from using more Palm. I know it's not that realistic it's in our food to but that's another battle...

I use glycerine for stearic instead of oil to melt because technically glycerin is an alcohol & will help 'dissolve 'it a bit better. Same reason I use a little Everclear when I'm rebatching makes my soap batter completely smooth like real milled soap. 
Wow. That was all relatively coherent. Adderall apparently just kicked in


----------



## Lindy

Thanks for that information, I hope you will let us know how your experiment goes.


----------



## LBussy

rogue said:


> Soy wax is supposedly 80% stearic acid. The "stearic" we get from suppliers isn't 100% stearic acid it is apparently a mix I believe of palmitic also which makes sense since much of it is coming from Palm oil. 100% stearic is tech grade is mondo pricey. There was a whole conversation about this on another board. Someone was getting ocd about his calculations. I'm just trying to put my chemistry hat back on & get away from using more Palm. I know it's not that realistic it's in our food to but that's another battle...


That OCD person was me.  

It's not true that real SA is more expensive.  This is a source:

http://www.lotioncrafter.com/stearic-acid-nf.html

Note the CAS number 57-11-4 which is (relatively) pure SA and not the palmitic/stearic blend.  That one is often advertised as "triple pressed vegetable" and is CAS 67701-03-5.  The latter is said to be "40-60% palmitic acid."

Source Sigma-Aldritch


----------



## Lindy

I think everyone has their own definition of expensive.  I personally don't feel SA is expensive and always have some in stock, I buy mine here - https://www.voyageursoapandcandle.com/Stearic_Acid_Triple_Pressed_Vegetable_p/62200.htm and last time I bought the 55 lb bag.


----------



## rogue

LBussy I thought we had been talking about tech grade? Hmmm. Getting old timers.


----------



## LBussy

rogue said:


> LBussy I thought we had been talking about tech grade? Hmmm. Getting old timers.


I may have said that in another thread, but then IrishLass shared that LotionCrafter's has that stuff and it's real SA.


----------



## Obsidian

I check my cream soap for the first time since I made it about 3 weeks ago and it seems almost snotty. Is this normal or should I whip in some more water? I plan on using it for a foaming sugar scrub with a little added oil that will be made in small batches as needed.


----------



## doriettefarm

Obsidian said:


> I check my cream soap for the first time since I made it about 3 weeks ago and it seems almost snotty. Is this normal or should I whip in some more water? I plan on using it for a foaming sugar scrub with a little added oil that will be made in small batches as needed.



Have you tried using homemade cream soap as a sugar scrub base before?  I attempted a small batch using Catherine Failor's #4 recipe and added the same amount of sugar I would normally add to foaming bath butter base.  Let's just say it didn't turn out as planned.  The sugar just seemed to liquify and didn't stay grainy/scrubby at all.  Anyone have tips on how to make this work with a homemade cream soap?


----------



## Obsidian

Only a couple spoonfuls at a time and it was used immediately. I used 2:1 sugar:soap, it didn't really foam that much but it was nice.


----------



## Lindy

Obsidian said:


> I check my cream soap for the first time since I made it about 3 weeks ago and it seems almost snotty. Is this normal or should I whip in some more water? I plan on using it for a foaming sugar scrub with a little added oil that will be made in small batches as needed.


 
Don't add anymore water, it sounds like there may be a bit too much.  Whip it again using your SB.  Once you've done that take a bit out and add warm water to it to see what your lather is like.


----------



## Lindy

doriettefarm said:


> Have you tried using homemade cream soap as a sugar scrub base before? I attempted a small batch using Catherine Failor's #4 recipe and added the same amount of sugar I would normally add to foaming bath butter base. Let's just say it didn't turn out as planned. The sugar just seemed to liquify and didn't stay grainy/scrubby at all. Anyone have tips on how to make this work with a homemade cream soap?


 
Try adding sugar until it becomes more solid/grainy.


----------



## Obsidian

I tried to SB it but it's just too thick, much like marshmallow cream. Its also full of air bubbles and not creamy at all. I did test lather it, a little added water smoothed it out quite a lot and more produced a decent amount of lather. I'm going to mix a little with sugar today and try it on my legs, they need exfoliated badly.


----------



## Lindy

If you need to add water do it slowly so you don't get too much.  Sounds nice though.


----------



## DeeAnna

I stumbled upon this cream soap calculator today: http://www.soulgazersundries.com/calculator.html

It's not an online calc -- it is an Excel spreadsheet for use on your computer. You can download a free trial version with 25 fats loaded in, or you can buy the full version with 125 fats for about $10 USD. What's really cool is the instructions give the rationale for calculating the amounts of water, glycerin, and such in a cream soap recipe. Cool!

A tip: To get the trial version, it might not download properly if you click on the "download" button. At least it didn't work for me. I had to right click on the "download" button and choose "save link as" in Firefox. If you are using another browser, follow this general method and look for the equivalent command to save the file to your computer.

Enjoy!


----------



## Lindy

Thanks DeeAnna


----------



## LBussy

DeeAnna said:


> I stumbled upon this cream soap calculator today: http://www.soulgazersundries.com/calculator.html


Thanks DeeAnna!


----------



## janzo

Thank you Lindy, I made my first batch of cream soap yesterday and it turned out great.  Your tutorial was invaluable, it's always good to check that you are on the right track.  It is now in a sealed container put away for a few months.  Now to give liquid soap a try!!


----------



## Lindy

I am thrilled that you enjoyed the process.  It does become addictive, just a fair warning LOL


----------



## alaskazimm

Thank you for putting this up, Lindy. There doesn't seem to be much out there on the net about cream soap and this is helpful.

A couple of clarifications, if you will - I made the batch yesterday and whipped it this morning, but the resultant cream seems rather greasy to me. Is this recipe 3.5:1 KOH:NaOH with a lye discount of 17%? That's how I had to work it in SoapMaker to get the numbers you posted.

What little I've been able to find says to use 0% discount with the supercream of 3 - 5% taking the place of the lye discount. Or does the rotting period take care of the greasy feel? Or am I off the mark in my thinking (this being the most likely case)?


----------



## Lindy

You can lower the SF but don't take it too far down as cream soap is rather drying which is why I never take it to a 0% SF.  The super cream is different than SF as it is just stearic (drying) and glycerin.  I've not found this one particularly oily but that could be just me.  Do play with it now that you've made it and seen what the different stages look like.  Then share you results....


----------



## LBussy

Lindy, up there in the beginning you showed where you move to the blending bowl.  It did not look like the entire batch - was it?  Or do you blend a little at a time?

Also; I've put the tutorial in a PDF so folks can download it and print it out.  I've attached that as my way of saying thanks for posting this! 

View attachment Lindy's Cream Soap.pdf


----------



## Lindy

Hi Lee, thank you for putting it into a pdf document, you rock.  I do put the entire amount into the bowl  It is a fairly large bowel LOL


----------



## LBussy

Lindy said:


> I do put the entire amount into the bowl  It is a fairly large bowel LOL


I went back and added it up ... I imagine the crockpot pictures is a 1.5 QT then?  That's the size I use for my shaving soap batches.


----------



## Lindy

It is.  For my large batches I put it into a pail and use a paint stirrer attachment that is just for cream soap and stir it that may.  Works a dream....


----------



## Lbrown123

Well I have this whipped batter.... What's next? I was envisioning a sugar whipped scrub thingy but the sugar kind of liquidified. What exactly do I do with this? ... I am thinking I did something wrong still.


----------



## Lindy

It all depends on how much water you added. If you are wanting to do a sugar scrub with this then you keep adding sugar until it doesn't melt. Same if you wanted to make a salt scrub.


----------



## Lbrown123

Thanks Lindy! I am a little intimidated by this experiment! I used 1 cup of whipped batter to about three cups of organic sugar and Wow! It makes my skin feel so great! Moisturized! Soft! Love your recipe!


----------



## Lindy

I am thrilled that you like it and that you were able to get it to work for you.


----------



## alaskazimm

When I made this recipe last week, I thought it was a bit greasy, but after sitting for a bit less than a week it's much less and the lather is a bit more bubbly. Even with the short "rot" I'm quite liking it and can't wait to see how it is after another month or two. 

I also made a shave cream based off my croap recipe. I juggled the numbers a bit to boost the stearic and used a superfat of 10% and stearic/glycerin supercream. Again, even with the short rotting time (less than a week) it makes some of the densest and slickest lather I've come across. At this point, though I haven't shaved with it, it's probably a bit drying. I'm trying to have patience before I put it on my face.

I got to thinking that instead of supercreaming with straight stearic, would there be much of a downside to supercreaming with shea or mango butter? Both of those are high in stearic, so I'm guessing it would probably work. I just wish I had a smaller crockpot so I didn't have to make such a big batch (~16 oz oils) of soap for testing.


----------



## LBussy

alaskazimm said:


> I just wish I had a smaller crockpot so I didn't have to make such a big batch (~16 oz oils) of soap for testing.


$15.85 and free shipping:




Proctor Silex 33015Y 1-1/2-Quart Round Slow Cooker


----------



## alaskazimm

Thanks for the suggestion, Lee! Of course, though that means I need more patience before I can try this again. . . sigh


----------



## alaskazimm

Also, playing around with the numbers - to get the 14 gm of stearic supercream needed, I would need 35 gm of shea/mango which are each ~40% stearic. That's 7.7% of the total oils. I wonder now if that much free oil will impact the lather too much? Really only one way to find out.


----------



## Lindy

That much in free oils will not be friendly to the lather plus it will increase the SF something terrible.  The Super Cream is not the same thing as the superfat, the super cream is to increase the density of the lather rather than increase the oil content.


----------



## alaskazimm

Thanks again for the advice Lindy.

I realize the supercream and superfat are two different beasts. I was contemplating if I could get the best of both worlds out of a supercream with shea - lather density and conditioning. Maybe I'll make a small batch for my own edification.


----------



## LBussy

I still have a really basic question/sticking point with this in general:

When is a fat not a fat?

I get that SA (technically a fatty acid) is often used in lotions, creams, whatever, to thicken, add "creaminess", etc.  Why is it that adding this is not the same as adding oils or fats?  Is it because it is a fatty acid?  Does the "stearic acid" most places sell that is really stearin work too?  I suspect it toes .. which leads me to another "why?" moment.


----------



## DeeAnna

"..instead of supercreaming with straight stearic, would there be much of a downside to supercreaming with shea or mango butter? Both of those are high in stearic, so I'm guessing it would probably work...."

I get the feeling you're confusing a fat and a fatty acid. Fats do contain fatty acids, but they don't function the same as fatty acids. It's like saying table salt and sodium hydroxide are the same because they both contain sodium. 

Stearic added as a "supercream" is acting as a thickener and it can even add a drier and more waxy feel. Shea or mango won't thicken the cream soap -- they instead will make the product softer and greasier.

***

"...Does the "stearic acid" most places sell that is really stearin work too?..."

Stearin and commercial stearic acid are not the same product.

When you cool liquid palm oil or lard or tallow slowly, the fats higher in stearic and palmitic acid will crystallize out into solid bits that can be removed by filtration. The solid fat blend collected from this filtration is stearin. Olein is the liquid fat collected from this same filtration -- these are the fats higher in oleic acid. 

Commercial stearic acid is the blend of palmitic acid and stearic acid from hydrolyzing stearin to break down this fat into its constituent fatty acids and glycerin.


----------



## LBussy

DeeAnna said:


> Stearin and commercial stearic acid are not the same product.


Yes ma'am and I think you know I know that.   I guess the point is unless you really know what you are buying when you ask for stearin acid, you could be getting stearin, a stearic/palmitic acid blend, or stearic acid.  I've seen all three sold as SA in hobby shops and online.  

The point I was leading towards was if the supercream effect depends on a fatty acid, or even more specifically SA, that may explain some of the mixed results.


----------



## DeeAnna

I was wondering why you asked the question in that particular way, Lee. I gather now that you were asking this rhetorically, and it's obvious I missed the cue. My apologies for not seeing it.

....bowing out of the discussion....


----------



## LBussy

Sometimes you get a big fish when you drop a hook. 

Your input is always valued DeeAnna, and if I'm headed in the right direction with that line of thinking I'm eager to know.  Just seems ... plausible.


----------



## alaskazimm

DeeAnna said:


> I get the feeling you're confusing a fat and a fatty acid. Fats do contain fatty acids, but they don't function the same as fatty acids.




OK, thanks DeeAnna, it's becoming a bit clearer. But here's what I still don't get - if the fatty acids and fats don't function in the same way, then why does the stearic component of shea, tallow, etc go towards the thick, creamy lather of a soap when not used as a supercream?

I may need to break down and find Failor's book on cream soaps . . .


----------



## Lindy

Stearic Acid is just that - 100% Stearic where Shea butter et el has stearic in them  By adding these you are increasing your superfat which reduces lather and adds greasiness.


----------



## DeeAnna

First, I want to add a bit more to my previous answer about why stearic acid and fats high in stearic are not the same. We were talking at that point about using stearic acid as a supercream ingredient. When used as a thickener, the stearic acid doesn't go through any chemical reaction. It's just a mechanical thickener -- a lot like stirring dirt into a bucket of water. Add enough dirt to the water, and you get thick mud, but the dirt doesn't change its chemical nature.

"...why does the stearic component of shea, tallow, etc go towards the thick, creamy lather of a soap when not used as a supercream?..."

When turned into soap, the stearic acid, no matter whether it's from shea butter or stearic acid pellets, goes through a chemical reaction so it is no longer shea butter or stearic acid. The product you have is the SOAPS that come from shea or stearic acid. 

Saponification (1) breaks down fats into fatty acids and glycerin and (2) turns the fatty acids into soap. 

You can saponify stearic acid directly, as when we do when making cream soap (see Lindy's recipe in this thread) or make shave soap (see Songwind's "my first shave soap is a success" thread). A lot of commercial soaps are made by direct saponification of various fatty acids. 

Or you can use stearic acid indirectly by using a fat that is high in this FA. Shea is mostly stearic and oleic fatty acids with a dab of palmitic and linoleic acids. So when you turn shea into soap, you end up with stearic soap + oleic soap + a touch of palmitic soap + a touch of linoleic soap + the unsaponifiable ingredients in shea. The soap isn't exactly a "shea soap" -- it's the soap that is made from the fatty acids in the shea. 

Any soap made with a high percentage of stearic (or palmitic) acid tends to have a low amount of creamy lather, so you're going to see this type of lather with any fat or fatty acid blend high in palmitic and stearic. 

Why, you wonder?

Stearic and palmitic soaps are not very soluble in water, so they don't rub off easily onto your washcloth compared to, say, the soaps from coconut oil. Less soap on your washcloth => less lather. These soaps are also rather long, heavy molecules, so they don't fluff up easily into a big puffy lather, compared with soap that comes from coconut oil which contains lighter, shorter, and more water soluble soap molecules. 

I hope this answers your question.


----------



## Lindy

Deanna thank you for explaining it better than I can.  I just know it works and that allows me to develop other soaps.


----------



## alaskazimm

I think I see now. So if I have this right - the stearic acid works as a thickener when used alone because it's just SA, but works when used in the saponification process (eg - shea) because it broken away from the rest of the fatty acids of the ingredient by the lye; so if shea is tried to be used as a supercream it isn't broken down into its parts and thus won't work in the same way. Which is what your first post said . . .

I've said it before and I'll say it again - you explain things so well that you could write a book! I'd be first in line to buy it.


----------



## DeeAnna

"...if shea is tried to be used as a supercream it isn't broken down into its parts and thus won't work in the same way..."

Bingo! You nailed it!  Sometimes it helps to hear something explained a couple of different ways. Everyone's like that, but not everyone is willing to keep pegging away to try to understand. You did, Alaska, and I'm glad you kept asking questions until you got the info you needed.


----------



## alaskazimm

And thank you for having the patience to stick with me trying to wrap my mind around this.


----------



## bodybym

I know that this is an old thread, but I have my first batch in the slower cooker and I am very excited to see how it goes!


----------



## Lindy

Awesome!


----------



## bodybym

It seems to have turned out OK. There are still some small chunks no matter how long I whipped it. It is rotting right now - so I am hoping it will improve in texture in a few months.

I want to make another batch with other oils I have. This could become addictive!


----------



## LBussy

I had a thought about this on the way to work.  Much better to think about soap than to think about traffic.

Could one put away the soap before creaming it?  Like let it age in a brick/loaf and in 6 months cream it?  It seems like it might save for a longer time since there's less water and a lot less surface area.


----------



## Lindy

Merryn it should smooth out.

Lee I don't know I've never thought of trying that.


----------



## LBussy

Lindy said:


> Lee I don't know I've never thought of trying that.


I think you said you've only had one batch go bad.  I was thinking not adding water to it would help prevent even that one.  Maybe I'll do one either way (if I can find my damned dough hook!)


----------



## Lindy

LOL - let us know your experience.  I learned that it was condensation that caused my problem.  Preservative wouldn't have stopped that because preservative doesn't immigrate with the condensation.


----------



## reinbeau

I have a batch rotting I made back on February 24th.  I didn't whip it for the first time until March 22.  When I put it into the container it was so hard, I found it hard to believe it would soften, but soften it did.  I whipped it with no additional moisture, it was lovely, creamy - but back into the container it went.  Haven't touched it since.  I want to leave it go for a good six months before I do anything with it.  I don't think I'll add any more water to it.  This is the picture after that first whipping (sounds so decadent, doesn't it??)


----------



## LBussy

I found my dough hook so the only thing keeping me back is me.  

Yes it does look very nice!


----------



## Irishgem29

I think I may need to try this soon but first I have 2 questions. 
1 where do you find koh?
2 what do you use it for again?  Just shaving or scrub?  Is this used like a soap for body in the shower also?  
It sounds interesting and would be great to make and let sit and then have in time for Christmas gifts!


----------



## Irishgem29

Oops forgot one question, how do I rework properly to sub almond for avocado.


I think autocorrect hates me,


----------



## Lindy

Beautiful!  At 6 months it will be even more beautiful.


----------



## reinbeau

I used a powerful hand mixer with no issue at all.  You'd have to recalculate the lye for a substitution, but it works like any other soap formula.  I get all of my lye, sodium or potassium, from The Lye Guy.


----------



## Lindy

The uses for this are as a soap, shave soap, for sugar/salt scrubs, facial cleanser and more.  Your imagination will come up with so many applications.


----------



## Irishgem29

Thank you both!  I just didn't want to make a ton and find out its limited to shaving. I will have to get some koh and put this on the to do list. Wonderful, and simple tutorial by the way. I saw something like this explained to make cp soap and that's when I thought I can do that!  I think I like visuals!


----------



## Lindy

Irishgem  - you are most welcome...


----------



## alaskazimm

OK, here is my latest attempt at shaving cream. In a previous batch I lowered the initial lye discount to 9% and after the cook added in 3% shea and 3% mango butter with the supercream for a final superfat of 15%. It wasn't drying during the couple of test shaves I did, but I think that level of superfat was hurting the lather.
Yesterday I made another batch but lowered the final superfat to ~12% by lowering the lye discount to 6%. I haven't shaved with it yet but the test lather was pretty dang good. I have high hopes for this batch.


----------



## Lindy

Very nice


----------



## reinbeau

Ok, as a nonshaver, I need to know, how do you lather up cream soap type shaving cream?  Wondering about excess water in the jar??  I really have no clue.  My father used to use a puck in a cup, I guess there would be excess water in the cup - but I truly am trying to understand.  Dad isn't here to ask anymore and my husband has a full beard


----------



## LBussy

Looks like a good lather to me. The question is how does a shave?


----------



## alaskazimm

reinbeau said:


> Ok, as a nonshaver, I need to know, how do you lather up cream soap type shaving cream?  Wondering about excess water in the jar??  I really have no clue.  My father used to use a puck in a cup, I guess there would be excess water in the cup - but I truly am trying to understand.  Dad isn't here to ask anymore and my husband has a full beard



I don't put the damp brush in the jar, but what I do is take a baby spoon or ice cream sample spoon and dip out an almond size portion. I either smear that on my face or on  the bristles of the brush, then commence to lathering on my face. Works wonderfully well :smile:



LBussy said:


> Looks like a good lather to me. The question is how does a shave?



I don't know yet. I was thinking to use it for today's shave, but a funny thing happened to it over night. It went from the stiffer cream in the picture to out-right runny, almost liquid. Maybe a mismeasurment some where, though I can't recall any funny stuff with the batch until now? 

Maybe I'll give it a shot anyway.


----------



## LBussy

reinbeau said:


> Ok, as a nonshaver, I need to know, how do you lather up cream soap type shaving cream?  Wondering about excess water in the jar??  I really have no clue.  My father used to use a puck in a cup, I guess there would be excess water in the cup - but I truly am trying to understand.  Dad isn't here to ask anymore and my husband has a full beard


alaskazimm gave you a good answer - let me expand on it.  Sometimes if you;re going to make shaving soap it helps to speak the language.

There are several ways to make a lather.  Some people make a lather on the soap - this is most appropriate for a harder soap like a puck.  You soak the brush in hot water, and optionally soak the puck in hot water to help it "bloom".  You then work the brush on the soap till you get what you want. 

Then there's bowl vs face latherers.  You can use any types of soap for these although a hard puck makes it more challenging requiring a better "bloom" most times.  The two are exactly what they sound like - you either work up a lather in the bowl or on your face.  I prefer a bowl because of my lather is going to give me grief, I'd prefer to work it in a bowl than potentially irritating my face with more manual action.

Shaving cream vs Croap:  Cream many times comes in a toothpaste tube; Proaso is a good example:







You squeeze a bit into the bowl (if you bowl lather) or on the soaked brush, and go to town.  An almond sized portion as alaskazimm says is the typical starter recommendation.  You can always add more.

If you have a croap you take that damp brush and load it on the soap till you have enough (most people count "laps") and then to the bowl or face.


----------



## bodybym

I think I'm becoming addicted to cream soap.

I made my first batch a few months ago, and it is rotting away nicely. Yesterday I made my 2nd batch, and created my own recipe from it using Summer Bea Meadow's calculator. It is resting and today I get to whip it.

I am also planning on making another batch tomorrow to start playing with other oils to see which ones I like best. This could be dangerous!


----------



## Lindy

Good for you!  And yes, it is very addicting.


----------



## HappyBeeSoapCo

I've wanted to try a cream soap for awhile and since I hadn't found this thread yet I made the soaping 101 recipe which didn't turn out how I imagined, it was too stiff and I had to add a lot of water and then it got too fluffy. It's been rotting for a month now. Then I saw this thread and it was like the sun came out! I immediately wanted to try it but after the previous one I didn't want so much of it in case it failed.

 So yesterday I made a very small batch, only 100 gr of oil. I rigged up a sort of mini double boiler because it was too small for my crockpot. I had to sub tallow for the co as I had run out but I was so eager to try this that I couldn't wait for next months order! I think it turned out even tho it never got super chunky like in your pics. Today it was very stiff, too stiff to beat it so I had to add quite a lot of water to it but it turned nice and creamy, albeit a think cream. It's a lovely white paste with no lumps in it. I am quite excited waiting for this one.


Thanks so much Lindy for going to the trouble to show how to do it so clearly.


----------



## Saponista

Looking good!


----------



## anhtran313

Awesome, your tutorial is very detailed, I can't wait to make my own cream soap with your tutorial tomorrow ! Thank you very much !! I love it!


----------



## cjisler

Good tutorial, easy to follow.


----------



## hnelbach

I'm excited to try this.


----------



## Soaps_and_more

This is an awesome thread, thank everyone for the efforts, the tutorial is really great. 
I tried to read all the posts, but maybe I just overlooked it:

Why whip when it is still so hard? Why not just leave it be as it is and you say it will get softer with time and you whip it then?

Maybe its something I dont understand ... would be very thankful for your opinions or rather explanations. Thank you all!


----------



## cmzaha

I pour mine in a sanitized bucket and whip it when I am going to make my scrub with it, which could be a year later. Since it is not my favorite type of soap to make I only make it about once a year so I have enough for a scrub I make with it


----------



## Soaps_and_more

Thank you very much! That is what i thought...
Also not in love with the process, but maybe the result will sweep me off my feet


----------



## Scorpion31

I noticed someone asked awhile ago, hopefully I didn’t overlook the response....but, why kaolin clay? What is the benefit? Can I use bentonite clay instead?

I did make the recipe using bentonite clay (only because I don’t have any kaolin); it will be awhile before I know how it turns out ).

Thanks


----------



## Clarice

Hello to all who many be interested.  The attached pdf is Lindy's recipe placed in document format (minus the pictures).  I did this so I could print it and work from it rather than scrolling among screens.  This is LINDY's recipe, not mine. I am just the transcriber.  

If anyone is interested in a pdf with her pictures included, I would be happy to make that up as well.  I did not do that because I did not want it to chew through my printer ink.

Thank you all, and mostly, thank you to Lindy, and to the admins who gave me the green light to post this.

Cheers!  Clarice


----------



## reinbeau

Clarice said:


> If anyone is interested in a pdf with her pictures included, I would be happy to make that up as well.  I did not do that because I did not want it to chew through my printer ink.


Clarice, I'd love to have the pdf with the pictures, thank you so much!


----------



## Clarice

Will get right on it, expect tomorrow latest!

Ok here you go

PLEASE NOTE - If Lindy made corrections in the body of the text in this thread, I have NOT incorporated them.  If as I traverse the thread I find any - I will update the PDF.  If you know of some changes that should be made, please let me know.

Thanks all!  Clarice


----------



## Jeboz

Hi, can I ask a newbie question, please? I see this is made as CP and HP soap (with both lyes, however). Is this product the same as the foaming bath whip in use? I know the ingredients are quite different. Looks like anther interesting product to use. I love the feel of the bath whip when whipped - is this similar in feel or looser? Thanks Jane


----------



## Clarice

I have not yet made this - so I cannot really comment

However, I am desperately looking for a creamed soap - by whipped are you meaning the soap that you ultimately shape into a bar, and it floats in the water? 

If you are meaning a cream soap - consistency like a really thick frosting - that you scoop out of a container to use - I would be interested in any recipes / experiences that you have had!

Thanks, C


----------



## Jeboz

Clarice said:


> I have not yet made this - so I cannot really comment
> 
> However, I am desperately looking for a creamed soap - by whipped are you meaning the soap that you ultimately shape into a bar, and it floats in the water?
> 
> If you are meaning a cream soap - consistency like a really thick frosting - that you scoop out of a container to use - I would be interested in any recipes / experiences that you have had!
> 
> Thanks, C



No, not a floating soap - a scoop out of the container and use as soap. I have bought a pre made base and I have also bought a recipe from a lady on etsy DIYbathandbodyshop- Sandra with these ingredients Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, Stearic Acid, Glycerin, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Distilled Water, Broad Spectrum Preservate. It's called foaming bath butter, foaming bath whip and maybe other names as well.


----------



## Misschief

Jeboz said:


> No, not a floating soap - a scoop out of the container and use as soap. I have bought a pre made base and I have also bought a recipe from a lady on etsy DIYbathandbodyshop- Sandra with these ingredients Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, Stearic Acid, Glycerin, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Distilled Water, Broad Spectrum Preservate. It's called foaming bath butter, foaming bath whip and maybe other names as well.


No, this is not the same thing. This is a cream soap, not a whipped soap base.


----------



## Clarice

Jane. I just tried “whipped soap”. (Really a cream soap based on what I have learned on this site) from humblebee and me.

https://www.humblebeeandme.com/diy-whipped-soap-base/

Note she alternates between calling it a whipped soap and a cream soap (sigh )

It turned out OK. Compare to the Pacha Whipped Body Scrub I give it a “B”.  (I am trying to replicate the Pacha).   Compared to Pacha the Humblebee version was insufficiently dense, so I will play with it more nd let you know what I experience. What appealed to me was that it did not need to “rot” and could be used right away.

Would love to share  any experience and recipient with you that you care to share! 

Best. Clarice


----------



## Jeboz

Clarice said:


> Jane. I just tried “whipped soap”. (Really a cream soap based on what I have learned on this site) from humblebee and me.
> 
> https://www.humblebeeandme.com/diy-whipped-soap-base/
> 
> Note she alternates between calling it a whipped soap and a cream soap (sigh )
> 
> It turned out OK. Compare to the Pacha Whipped Body Scrub I give it a “B”.  (I am trying to replicate the Pacha).   Compared to Pacha the Humblebee version was insufficiently dense, so I will play with it more nd let you know what I experience. What appealed to me was that it did not need to “rot” and could be used right away.
> 
> Would love to share  any experience and recipient with you that you care to share!
> 
> Best. Clarice


With my limited knowledge I would say you are after a foaming bath whip type product rather than a lye based one. The ingredients listed on the Pach site are not trad. soap. It's seems pretty much emollients, sugar, salt and preservatives with fragrance. But again I'm just new to all this.


----------



## Clarice

Jeboz said:


> With my limited knowledge I would say you are after a foaming bath whip type product rather than a lye based one. The ingredients listed on the Pach site are not trad. soap. It's seems pretty much emollients, sugar, salt and preservatives with fragrance. But again I'm just new to all this.



WOW - see - I don't know enough yet to decipher the Pacha ingredient list - thank you for doing that!!!!  That explains the density thing - and DUH!  why didn't I study it more instead of flailing around in the dark!!  

THANK YOU @Jeboz - you have spurred completely new thinking!  YAY!


----------



## plhamp

Clarice said:


> Jane. I just tried “whipped soap”. (Really a cream soap based on what I have learned on this site) from humblebee and me.
> 
> https://www.humblebeeandme.com/diy-whipped-soap-base/
> 
> Note she alternates between calling it a whipped soap and a cream soap (sigh )
> 
> It turned out OK. Compare to the Pacha Whipped Body Scrub I give it a “B”.  (I am trying to replicate the Pacha).   Compared to Pacha the Humblebee version was insufficiently dense, so I will play with it more nd let you know what I experience. What appealed to me was that it did not need to “rot” and could be used right away.
> 
> Would love to share  any experience and recipient with you that you care to share!
> 
> Best. Clarice


These two ingredients -Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate called SCI and Disodium Lauryl Sulfosuccinate are surfactants and can be purchased and made into a body whip by adding things like glycerin, water, some oils and your exfoliants and fragrance, etc.  

Or there is creamed soap made by using both Sodium and Potassium Hydroxides with butters some coconut oil and stearic acid and low amounts of maybe olive oil. Usually made by hot process like a HP Liquid Soap, but then treated differently after the cooked period is done. The soap you linked to doesn't have a good mix of oils to give that creamy silky creamed soap that you are looking for and also won't hold the creamed soap texture you are after. 

If you want to have a go at making Cream Soap with the two lyes do a search here and you will find a lot of good information to get you started. 

There is a nice tutorial here for making creamed soap: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/a-cream-soap-tutorial.49652/


----------



## Clarice

Right. That is the one from which I created the PDFs attached in earlier posts here. Thanks.


----------



## Guinevere

Thank you Lindy. It’s so very special when y’all share your wealth of information. 

Guinevere


----------



## Relle

Guinevere said:


> Thank you Lindy. It’s so very special when y’all share your wealth of information.
> 
> Guinevere


Lindy hasn't been here in years, so won't likely see your post directed to her.


----------



## Clarice

plhamp said:


> If you want to have a go at making Cream Soap with the two lyes do a search here and you will find a lot of good information to get you started.


Thank you so much!  

I was able to order a booklet by Catherine Failor from The Sage website - it is a photocopied booklet, 40 pages long, that contains 5 recipes as well as Failor's instruction.  I learned a LOT from it already, and am eager to make one of the recipes.

THANK YOU!



DeeAnna said:


> I stumbled upon this cream soap calculator today: http://www.soulgazersundries.com/calculator.html
> 
> It's not an online calc -- it is an Excel spreadsheet for use on your computer.



@DeeAnna - I tried this link and it is apparently dead.  I have tried to find the entity 'soulglazersundries" with no success either.  

Do you still have the spreadsheet, and is it something you can share?   If not, i understand completely.  Thank you for considering.


----------



## Jeboz

[email protected] This may be dead as well but could be worth a try. It's from http://www.soulgazersundries.com


----------



## DeeAnna

Oh, gosh, this is a blast from the past! For situations like this, I search the Wayback Machine for dead URLs and see if they have an archived version.

Try this for the intro page for the calc -- https://web.archive.org/web/20150220102626/http://www.soulgazersundries.com/calculator.html

The trial version of the calc can be downloaded using this 2007 link: https://web.archive.org/web/2007022...ries.com/creamsoapcalculator.trialversion.xlt


----------



## reinbeau

DeeAnna said:


> Oh, gosh, this is a blast from the past! For situations like this, I search the Wayback Machine for dead URLs and see if they have an archived version.
> 
> Try this for the intro page for the calc -- https://web.archive.org/web/20150220102626/http://www.soulgazersundries.com/calculator.html
> 
> The trial version of the calc can be downloaded using this 2007 link: https://web.archive.org/web/2007022...ries.com/creamsoapcalculator.trialversion.xlt


It's password protected and can't be opened.


----------



## Clarice

I was able to access the trial version by using the second link in @DeeAnna's post - @reinbeau I can email it to you.

When i tried to access the full version - by that I mean - tried to buy the full version - I was routed to an odd pay pal page that seemed dicey, so I backed off and did not go forward

Thanks


----------



## Jeboz

Ooooh.............  foreign soap language!


----------



## Liesel Atwood

I am so happy to find this recipe!  Cream soap is the loveliest thing!  I wonder if there is anyone who can help me troubleshoot with a different recipe I used.  Last year, just before the pandemic hit, I made a batch of cream (whipped soap) using a recipe provided by the gal over at Soaping 101.  Soaping101 Recipes  The recipe is in the link, called Cream Soap.  It is wonderful soap.....but, after a year of curing, I still had some left.  So I whipped it up with some water.  (I think I used 3 oz cream soap and 2 oz boiled, cooled water.)  It whipped up into gorgeous fluffiness!  But when I used it, there was no lather.  None!  It is very creamy, but with none of the satisfying bubbles that remind me I'm getting clean.  It wasn't like this the first couple of times I whipped the soap.  Did I add too much water?  Or can cream soap "rot" too long?  Thanks in advance for any input you might have.  I am excited to try the cream soap recipe listed here!


----------



## Christinefish

I am new to soap making can I use any oil at the super cream stage instead of glycerin or is the glycerine important (I wanted to add Tamanu oil. Or is it something that should be added back at stage 1 and sub out a bit of the almond or other oils there? Thanks to all


----------



## Professor Bernardo

This looks like a great shaving soap for men or ladies to use.  You want that slick glide for the razor so it will give as close a shave as possible.

Why is the term "rotted" used?  That has a strong negative connotation to it.  Wouldn't sequester or letting it age be better terminology?  

I know one thing, it wouldn't be used in any marketing literature that's for sure...

*Yes folks!  Our shaving cream has been exclusively rotted for THREE MONTHS to ensure a great shaving experience!  LOL!        *



Christinefish said:


> I am new to soap making can I use any oil at the super cream stage instead of glycerin or is the glycerine important (I wanted to add Tamanu oil. Or is it something that should be added back at stage 1 and sub out a bit of the almond or other oils there? Thanks to all


The glycerin is an important ingredient at this stage for it's emollient properties.  Helps to maintain the creaminess of the mixture too.  Don't skip on it.
Add your Tamanu oil in stage 1, you'll be fine.  Subbing it for one of the other oils shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## Zany_in_CO

Professor Bernardo said:


> This looks like a great shaving soap for men or ladies to use.  You want that slick glide for the razor so it will give as close a shave as possible.


 We are most fortunate to have Lindy as a (now inactive) member of SMF.


Professor Bernardo said:


> Why is the term "rotted" used?


The term was origniated by Catherine Failor in a book pubished in 2001. Get a load of that price. It knocked my socks off while recently researching the subject. There's a lot of secrecy surrounding the making of cream soap. Back in the day before Facebook, there was a Yahoo Group devoted to it. The members were sworn to secrecy.

*MAKING CREAM SOAP*


----------



## Zany_in_CO

Christinefish said:


> I am new to soap making can I use any oil at the super cream stage instead of glycerin or is the glycerine important (I wanted to add Tamanu oil. Or is it something that should be added back at stage 1 and sub out a bit of the almond or other oils there? Thanks to all


Welcome to the Forum! Please go to the *Introduction Forum* and tell us a little about yourself, especially your level of experience and what drew you to the Wonderful World of Soapmaking. This will help us to help you. If you want help with anything in particular, it’s best to start a new thread. Mention what you need help with in the Title. Make sure to post it in the appropriate forum.

FYI: Cream soap is an advanced technique. It's best to learn the basics first and then stretch your creativity to include more advanced techniques. Go to the *Beginner's Forum* and check out the thread, *"Learn to Soap Online"*. Scroll down to LOVIN' SOAP - COLD PROCESS SOAP MAKING GUIDE - An Excellent overview of everything about making CP soap. There you will learn most of what we talk about here.

Since you mention _"Tamanu Oil"_, I'm guessing you have something in mind to address a skin problem. ??? If so, tamanu oil might be a good oil to use, but not in soap which is a wash-off product. Since it's expensive, it's best to use it in a lotion or cream or balm or just straight as is, where it can do the most good. This was the advice in a recent thread -- that I can't seem to remember the title of just now. 

HAPPY SOAPING!


----------



## Albertina

Hello cream soapers.

 I stumbled on this thread and though it's a quite an old one and probably its originator not active here, I would like to ask if any of you would like to share a photo of your cream cured soap in its pump bottle, and possibly a photo of its lather in the hands. 

Or has cream soap moved to another thread? 

It would be lovely to know and see more. 
I'm a beginner and haven't yet attempted to cream soap. 
Thank you and happy labour day


----------



## ResolvableOwl

Just today I happened to make some heavily Lindy-inspired cream soap, so in a few month's, I'll be really curious too what the expected outcome would look like!


----------



## Zany_in_CO

ResolvableOwl said:


> Just today I happened to make some heavily Lindy-inspired cream soap,


That's the problem with reading about a new soap technique -- so hard to resist! 


ResolvableOwl said:


> so in a few month's, I'll be really curious too what the expected outcome would look like!


How long are you planning on waiting? 3 months? 6 months?


----------



## ResolvableOwl

Well, I suspect that will pose at least as many questions as it answers…

From the skin feel when cleaning the tools, I was less than impressed. In line with what I already noted earlier of my ambivalent relationship with high-stearic soaps. But I won't pass a definite judgment until it has got at least a few weeks of chance to cure…

ETA: @Zany_in_CO I'm already trying hard to combine as many unknowns as possible at once into one project (Lindy recipe, fatty acid profile forgery, grocery store challenge, canola wax, false trace, glycerol/glycol swap), to minimise the number of “first times” 

The good thing about liquid/cream soap is that you don't “start” using it like a soap bar, and (at least in theory) there is no difference between the first and the last squeeze. It's easily possible to scoop out a bit every month or so – the difficult part is remembering this and taking notes that are reliable and understandable after several months.


----------



## Zany_in_CO

Albertina said:


> I stumbled on this thread and though it's a quite an old one and probably its originator not active here,


True. Lindy hasn't been active since 2015.


Albertina said:


> I would like to ask if any of you would like to share a photo of your cream cured soap in its pump bottle, and possibly a photo of its lather in the hands.


Catherine Failor wrote both the book on Liquid Soapmaking (1999) and Cream Soap (2001). Liquid Soapmaking took off big time! On the other hand, very few soapers made cream soap. I, for one, was just never that interested in it. As a result, there is very little information available about the technique. 


Albertina said:


> I'm a beginner and haven't yet attempted to cream soap.


I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm, but it is an advanced technique and I advise you to put it on the back burner for now. It would be best to read what I wrote earler in this thread *here*.


----------



## Albertina

Zany_in_CO said:


> True. Lindy hasn't been active since 2015.
> 
> Catherine Failor wrote both the book on Liquid Soapmaking (1999) and Cream Soap (2001). Liquid Soapmaking took off big time! On the other hand, very few soapers made cream soap. I, for one, was just never that interested in it. As a result, there is very little information available about the technique.
> 
> I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm, but it is an advanced technique and I advise you to put it on the back burner for now. It would be best to read what I wrote earler in this thread *here*.


Thank you Zany. I had read that comment and still found a sparkle of self confidence in attempting.... I will now follow your suggestion and keep o  reading about cream soap, and maybe even look for Catherine Failor's books.


----------



## Zany_in_CO

Albertina said:


> Thank you Zany. I had read that comment and still found a sparkle of self confidence in attempting.... I will now follow your suggestion and keep o  reading about cream soap, and maybe even look for Catherine Failor's books.


My pleasure, Albertina. 
I posted a link to Failor's book on making cream soap earlier in this thread. Here is the link. NOTE: Be prepared to be shocked. I was!


----------



## Marley

Zany_in_CO said:


> As a result, there is very little information available about the technique.
> 
> 
> Hi Zany in CO. Every time I pop in here and see your name I have to smile. I remember you so well from the early Yahoo soapmaking groups. Then everything sorta went to Facebook and I lost touch with you. You might remember Gretchen Moritz from those early days as well. She stays pretty active on the Facebook Group "Cream Soapmakers Delight" and helps a lot of people through the process.
> 
> Albertina: If you're going to attempt the Cream Soap, you might consider joining that Facebook Group for support because there are more recent options that can be applied to that process...such as low stearic acid and stearic acid-free formulas.


----------



## Albertina

@Zany_in_CO and @Marley thank you both. Great advice. The Failor book... I'll look for another source rather than amazon since it is quoted 730 USD.


----------



## Zany_in_CO

Marley said:


> you might consider joining that Facebook Group for support because there are more recent options that can be applied to that process...such as low stearic acid and stearic acid-free formulas.


I agree with @Albertina --- Great advice! Thank you!


Albertina said:


> The Failor book... I'll look for another source rather than amazon since it is quoted 730 USD.


Haha. Crazy, yes? I just wish I had the presence of forethought to buy that book when it was readily available.


----------



## Lady_Boss

Awesome tutorial  I’m about to buy what I need to make this. But I have a question, can I get this recipe written in percents? Or can somebody help me transferring it to percents? That way it’s easier to scale it up and down.


----------



## Professor Bernardo

Lady_Boss said:


> Awesome tutorial  I’m about to buy what I need to make this. But I have a question, can I get this recipe written in percents? Or can somebody help me transferring it to percents? That way it’s easier to scale it up and down.


Just use the Soapmaking Friend Calculator associated with this site.  However, as a note of warning, it won't give you the exact amount of percentages as associated with the recipe at the beginning of this thread.  Cream soap making is an entirely different process, bucking against the "norms" most soap makers have associated with for years regarding lye & water percentages, oils and glycerin, etc.
I am not trying to be negative here, but it is best for you to explore the recipe and percentages yourself.  You will learn a lot more that way than if one of the members here does it for you.  Personally, I had to do the conversions myself, which is a somewhat lengthy and involved process, but I learned that cream soap making is a whole different ball game, so to speak.  One must throw "convention" out the window.

To use a famous saying from one of the greatest TV shows during The Golden Era of Television. since it is very applicable to the jump from conventional HP & CP soap making:

“You unlock this door with the key of imagination. Beyond it is another dimension: a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind. You’re moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. You’ve just crossed over into… the Twilight Zone.”


----------



## Zany_in_CO

Welcome to the Wonderful World of Soapmaking! When you have time, please go to the Introduction Forum and tell us a little about yourself, as much as you care to share, but especially about your soapmaking experience. That will better help us to help you when needed.  



Lady_Boss said:


> I’m about to buy what I need to make this.


If you've never made basic soap before, I suggest you start there. Cream soap is an advanced technique more suited to experienced soapmakers. Even at that, there are few SMF members knowledgable about making cream soap. It's really not very popular.


----------



## senihhines

Is someone willing to share their notes from Catherine Failor's "Making Cream Soap?" I would greatly appreciate it. It’s not so much about her recipes but more about me learning how to formulate them, knowing safe guidelines for Stearic acid amounts, glycerin, ratios for dual lye, etc. It’s the formulation of cream soap that I need help with. I’d like to create my own. I’ve found a few calculators but I don’t know what to enter nor how to interpret what it generates. Thanks!


----------



## AliOop

senihhines said:


> Is someone willing to share their copy of Catherine Failor's "Making Cream Soap?" It can be screenshots, photocopies, etc. I'm willing to share books that I have too. Thanks!


I don't have the Failor book, but there is a handy set of cream soap tutorials and recipes on HumbleBee&Me. While the Failor book started it all, the cream soap threads here on SMF, as well as sites like HumbleBee, will have more updated techniques that take a lot of the mystery out of cream soap (as well as some of the myths that used to be considered absolute truth).

EDIT: One hardcover copy of the Failor cream soap book is listed on EBay right now for $160. Lowest price I've ever seen on it.  If someone would post a link to the FB group, that would also be helpful for those who are looking for more info.


----------



## TheGecko

senihhines said:


> Is someone willing to share their copy of Catherine Failor's "Making Cream Soap?" It can be screenshots, photocopies, etc. I'm willing to share books that I have too. Thanks!



Please be aware that what you are asking and offering is a gross violation of copyright law.


----------



## senihhines

TheGecko said:


> Please be aware that what you are asking and offering is a gross violation of copyright law.


You’re absolutely correct. Please forgive me. The book is no longer in print and I need more guidance than what I’ve been able to find on any forum, social media, etc. I wanted to get the info from the book and it seems no one is willing to share their knowledge in manner that I will be confident in creating my own soap recipes for cream soap. I haven’t even been able to find a class to take for this process. I was willing to pay someone to tutor me but no takers on that either. I am new to this forum and I don’t know how to delete my post so y’all forgive me.


----------



## TheGecko

senihhines said:


> You’re absolutely correct. Please forgive me. The book is no longer in print and I need more guidance than what I’ve been able to find on any forum, social media, etc. I wanted to get the info from the book and it seems no one is willing to share their knowledge in manner that I will be confident in creating my own soap recipes for cream soap. I haven’t even been able to find a class to take for this process. I was willing to pay someone to tutor me but no takers on that either. I am new to this forum and I don’t know how to delete my post so y’all forgive me.



No problem, just wanted you to know so no one gets in any trouble.

I believe in the adage: "_Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day.  Teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime_."

Not to put you down, but you remind me a bit of a gal from a Loom Knitting group that I used to run.  She was always looking for the quickest and easiest way to do things...her idea of 'learning' was simply to copy/mimic movements.  Which is fine when first starting out, but the problem is...if you don't learn the how or why, then you will always be dependent on someone else every time you need to do ABC or XYZ.  I was pretty much done with her when I got a private message from her one day.  Seems her neck of the woods had a storm that knocked out the Internet for a couple of weeks and so she was forced to actually learn the how and why...or not knit.  At first she was really angry...at me; it was all my fault that she didn't know how to knit.  Then she went through the saved PDF lists of all the patterns I posted each month on different techniques which explained the how and why, along with other PDF Tips & Tricks I had posted.  Given that she was knitting 12 hours a day, it didn't take her too long before she was able to read patterns, know the how and why of stitches, read her knitting, fix mistakes, etc.

It's pretty clear that you are stuck on this book and what you think you have to have...so much so that you're overlooking the obvious...this very thread. Here you have a recipe from an established soap maker, she includes step-by-step instructions and photos. And then you have pages and pages of discussion. Folks asking the same questions you are and questions you probably haven't even thought of. 

As for 'confidence'...books can only take you so far. It's in the actual doing of something in which you gain confidence. And even if you don't succeed, it's not a failure, it's simply an opportunity to learn more. My soap that shattered (I had added three dry tablespoons of TD instead of 3 teaspoons of dispersed TD). My soap that turned into concrete (I didn't read the reviews that the FO badly accelerated). My soap that I was sure was going to ignite and burn the house down (I had grabbed the Lye Solution I had made for a double batch and put it in the single batch). My Lemon Sherbet soap that turned orange (color morphing Mica that turned back to yellow). Another review that I didn't read had my Yellow layer looking like something you'd see in a diaper (discoloring FO).

My recommendation.  Start with Page 1 and Copy/Paste Lindy's first five posts to a Word (or other word processing document)....this is the recipe and instructions; save it.  Then start reading each post and pay particular attention to questions and answers and Copy/Paste every one to another document.  Don't skip so you don't miss anything.  Then when you are done...save it too.  Then print it out both file...do doubt there will be lots of pages and print on one side.

Then starting with the recipe/instructions and a blank piece of paper, review the recipe/instructions and start writing down any questions that you may have or things you want to know.  When you get done, take your list and the list of questions/answers you printed out and see if you can find your answers.  If you still have questions...then start a new post here and ask.


----------



## senihhines

You’re 100% correct. I want to learn the how and why. That’s the point I’m trying to make. I used the Soaping101 recipe for cream soap successfully. However, the lady who wants a batch of cream soap is allergic to coconut oil. I am unable to alter the recipe because I don’t understand how to formulate for cream soap. I can use another oil but does that mean I need to change the amounts of Stearic acid and glycerin used? If so, do I need to increase it or lower it? For oils that I have at home and want to use to make cream soap, that are not the ones in the recipes I’ve used, what adjustments need to be made. Forgive me for asking for help. Forgive me for desiring to read a text to help me understand. I’m not looking for shortcuts. To those who responded in love and positivity, I appreciate that. You have no idea what I’m going through and how simply making soap for folks is a ministry to them and myself. To those who are critical and judgmental, assuming to know what my intentions are, don’t worry I’ll be terminating my membership to this forum. It feels toxic after just a few days and I need less of that. To all on this forum, may God bless you richly in every area of life now and throughout 2022.


----------



## TheGecko

senihhines said:


> You’re 100% correct. I want to learn the how and why. That’s the point I’m trying to make. I used the Soaping101 recipe for cream soap successfully. However, the lady who wants a batch of cream soap is allergic to coconut oil. I am unable to alter the recipe because I don’t understand how to formulate for cream soap. I can use another oil but does that mean I need to change the amounts of Stearic acid and glycerin used? If so, do I need to increase it or lower it? For oils that I have at home and want to use to make cream soap, that are not the ones in the recipes I’ve used, what adjustments need to be made. Forgive me for asking for help. Forgive me for desiring to read a text to help me understand. I’m not looking for shortcuts. To those who responded in love and positivity, I appreciate that. You have no idea what I’m going through and how simply making soap for folks is a ministry to them and myself. To those who are critical and judgmental, assuming to know what my intentions are, don’t worry I’ll be terminating my membership to this forum. It feels toxic after just a few days and I need less of that. To all on this forum, may God bless you richly in every area of life now and throughout 2022.



It is of course, your choice to leave...or you can consider how you came across, learn from it, and move forward.

If you want an answer to all your questions, I am more than happy to go through the process with you to find the answer, but as I said...your choice.


----------



## Rsapienza

senihhines said:


> You’re 100% correct. I want to learn the how and why. That’s the point I’m trying to make. I used the Soaping101 recipe for cream soap successfully. However, the lady who wants a batch of cream soap is allergic to coconut oil. I am unable to alter the recipe because I don’t understand how to formulate for cream soap. I can use another oil but does that mean I need to change the amounts of Stearic acid and glycerin used? If so, do I need to increase it or lower it? For oils that I have at home and want to use to make cream soap, that are not the ones in the recipes I’ve used, what adjustments need to be made. Forgive me for asking for help. Forgive me for desiring to read a text to help me understand. I’m not looking for shortcuts. To those who responded in love and positivity, I appreciate that. You have no idea what I’m going through and how simply making soap for folks is a ministry to them and myself. To those who are critical and judgmental, assuming to know what my intentions are, don’t worry I’ll be terminating my membership to this forum. It feels toxic after just a few days and I need less of that. To all on this forum, may God bless you richly in every area of life now and throughout 2022.


Not for nothing but for someone who wants to learn, you certainly are ignoring any advice given to you. 
Did you even read the tutorial and all of the threads on here? TBH, there’s most likely more info on here than in the book you are so desperately set on reading. I mean, in the book, there won’t be questions and answers. Ya know??
I don’t think anyone is assuming anything other than you don’t have much experience and/or knowledge of soap making. That is what YOU said. You could also look up thread on shave soaps. They may also have info that can help you formulate.
Maybe, just maybe, the reason there is so little information about cream soaps is that they’re really not that good. Just a possibility. I do know there is a FB group dedicated to cream soap makers, but I was disappointed in that as well as the group has very little activity. You basically are going to need to dig a little deeper  and read a lot more. Good luck to you.


----------



## Professor Bernardo

I messed with the cream soap concept and for me it was total fail.  Not in the fact the soap didn't come out... it did, according to the method used at the beginning of this thread.  It was in the fact that I was desiring something akin to a cream or paste shaving soap... which it was not.  Lather was nonexistent, even using a shave brush.  It was really more like a cold cream consistency and very little, if any, cleansing properties to it.  Besides waiting two months, testing it out and then with some consternation, regret, slightly puzzled mind, etc. I washed it down the sink.  I only make about a 32oz batch so it wasn't much of a loss monetarily speaking. 

I went down a different path and highly modified the hot process dual lye shave soap method and have come up with an excellent product, IMHO.  
I will admit I used a couple of the techniques used in the cream soap method, but that is after the HP and saponification is complete.
The end product lathers like crazy, has a very dense creamy lather which provides plenty of blade cushion and glide.  It is packed in PP jars and has been selling very well.


----------



## Xmen559

I really really wanna try this


----------



## Rsapienza

Professor Bernardo said:


> I messed with the cream soap concept and for me it was total fail.  Not in the fact the soap didn't come out... it did, according to the method used at the beginning of this thread.  It was in the fact that I was desiring something akin to a cream or paste shaving soap... which it was not.  Lather was nonexistent, even using a shave brush.  It was really more like a cold cream consistency and very little, if any, cleansing properties to it.  Besides waiting two months, testing it out and then with some consternation, regret, slightly puzzled mind, etc. I washed it down the sink.  I only make about a 32oz batch so it wasn't much of a loss monetarily speaking.
> 
> I went down a different path and highly modified the hot process dual lye shave soap method and have come up with an excellent product, IMHO.
> I will admit I used a couple of the techniques used in the cream soap method, but that is after the HP and saponification is complete.
> The end product lathers like crazy, has a very dense creamy lather which provides plenty of blade cushion and glide.  It is packed in PP jars and has been selling very well.
> 
> View attachment 63382


My exact experience, although I did allow it to rot a bit longer and took a couple different stabs at it. In the end, tossed it all. It was just so pearly and pretty. I so wanted it to work out


----------



## AliOop

For those who want a soap calculator specifically for cream soap, plus a good summary of information about ingredient ratios, amount of water, oil properties in cream soap, etc., use the second link in @DeeAnna's post #232, above, which I have taken the liberty to copy and repaste here:

The trial version of the calc can be downloaded using this 2007 link:  https://web.archive.org/web/2007022...ries.com/creamsoapcalculator.trialversion.xlt


----------



## Yaroslav Fadeev

Lindy said:


> I still wasn't quite happy so I added an additional 3 ounces and this was just the ticket and where I want it to be:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's all there is to it. This is going to "rot" for the next couple of months in a sealed container and I might peak at it now and then (yeah like any of us can keep from peaking at our creations - whatever
> 
> Once it is fully cured/rotted you can add more liquid if you want and that is when you would add your fragrance. You will so love the feel of this and if you sell your customers will be beyond delighted.....
> 
> Thanks for letting me share this passion with you....



Thanks for the recipe. Will try it later


----------



## AliOop

FYI, MMS now offers Catherine Failor's book (booklet, really) "Making Cream Soap" for only $7.50.  Much better than the $194.57 price on Amazon, or $194.52 on eBay.


----------



## LynetteO

AliOop said:


> FYI, MMS now offers Catherine Failor's book (booklet, really) "Making Cream Soap" for only $7.50.  Much better than the $194.57 price on Amazon, or $194.52 on eBay.


Oh My Stars thank you so very much for sharing that piece of information. I have wanted that book for a while but no way would I pay $100+. Just completed my order!


----------



## AliOop

Honestly, I was trolling around MMS anyway looking at other stuff, and something just said to look in the book section. There it was!


----------



## LynetteO

AliOop said:


> Honestly, I was trolling around MMS anyway looking at other stuff, and something just said to look in the book section. There it was!


----------



## AliOop

PS - I bought a copy, too. I don't know why, since everyone says cream soap is a total disappointment. Maybe it was @Professor Bernardo's comment that he used some of the techniques to improve his shave soap. Or maybe it's just a rite of passage to try it and see what we think (like butter in soap).


----------



## LynetteO

@AliOop Exactly! And @ $7 if it’s a disappointment, so be it. However, I’d wager there’s a nugget or two pieces of information for success with cream soap making.

I have only a few cookbooks, medicinal herb books, EO books, quilt books, decoupage books, quilling books etc. that are  gems for information on very single page. Can anyone tell I have a  problem?! I’m not a hoarder, not a hoarder, not a hoarder…


----------

