# Syndopour shampoo syndet base testing



## Mobjack Bay (Jun 30, 2022)

My first round of Syndopour shampoo bars are made.  The short story - the bars I made today turned out perfectly, but something went awry in yesterday’s effort.

For context, Syndopour is a new melt and pour syndet base by Stephenson.  There’s another thread by @earlene discussing Syndopour, here.  In addition to the YT videos by Royalty Soaps and Ellen Ruth that were linked in the other thread, I found one by Sunshine Soap and Candle Company and one by the Soap Kitchen in the UK for a facial cleansing bar.  There’s also a shampoo bar YT by the Soap Kitchen, here, but the list of ingredients gives a different base.

Photos up front.  The long explanation of how I made them is below.








Day 2: happy, happy!
white, round - unadulterated base
green, round - green tea extract, matcha tea powder, rosemary eo
I got the idea to use the “travel size“ bee molds from the Ellen Ruth video.

Day 1: not happy, for reason explained below
pink, square - NS Queen of Hearts mica (by volume, 3x as much colorant as the other batches from Day 1), BB Wild Rose FO (I used 2%, but will use 1% the next time); I washed my hands with the lower pink bar midday today and dinged it because it was still quite soft.
lavender, square - ultramarine violet, lavandin eo
green, square - blend of green and yellow oxides, lavandin & rosemary eos, provitamin B5 and silk amino acids; additives inspired by Sunshine Soap and Candle Co.

The square bars were made yesterday and all were still a bit soft and sticky this morning, at least 18 hours after they were made. Each color was made separately as 112-150 g of base split into two cavities of the mold. The suggested limit for additives is 3%, including fragrance up to 2%.  I added 2% FO or EO to each batch. The green squares have additional additives totaling 1% of batch weight.  I did not count the colorants in the additives. Each colorant was suspended by adding a tiny spritz of 91% IPA, which also was not counted in the additives.  By tiny, I mean a few drops, based on what I saw in the bottom of the 30 ml beaker I spritzed into.  That’s except for the green bars where I spritzed twice so the B5 additive would dissolve.  The instructions are to heat the base to 80C.  I heated each batch in the microwave until it was about 80-90% melted and then stirred until the last of the base was melted.  I was worried about overshooting the correct temp and may have been below 80C, but the base was nicely fluid each time and I didn’t bother to write down the temperature at the melted/fluid point.

Based on the YT videos by Royalty Soap and Ellen Ruth and the product information, I expected the bars to firm up pretty quickly and get harder overnight.  Instead I got soft and sticky.  Since I didn’t make a control bar yesterday, I figured I better do it today.  For the three smaller bars I made this morning, I heated the base to 80C +/- 2C.  The white ones were made in one batch and are the unadulterated base.  One white bar was un-molded after an hour and was just the tiniest bit soft.  The second white bar was un-molded several hours later and was firm.  The round green bar is made with matcha tea powder that I counted as an additive.  It suspended easily into a mixture of the other additives (green tea extract in glycerin and water, plus the EO). I removed that bar from the mold after about three hours and it’s shiny gorgeous. There’s no preservative for the tea, so I will need to watch it and do some research.

Something I did yesterday caused a problem in all three batches.  The alcohol?  The temperature?  Both? The soft bars seem to be getting a bit firmer as the day goes on, but they’re still softer than the bars made today. Based on the photos, it looks like the square green bars with the extra 1% additives were the stickiest coming out of the mold,  Perhaps the additives also played a role? 

The Day 1 bar that I tried earlier today made nice lather with some good size bubbles, but I don’t think testing a soft bar is a fair test and will wait at least another day before I take one into the shower.


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Jul 1, 2022)

I read through the Syndopour documents before I made the bars, but without taking good notes. I’m re-reading them now and a few things are popping out:

On temperature for melting - “The base will begin melting above 50/60°C, but the base should be heated up to 70 - 85 degrees during processing to achieve the best quality bars.”

On hardening - “One of the main differences you will see with Syndopour 200-MB is the softness of the base. Once the syndet base has been poured to create finished bars the base will harden, they need to be left for longer than soap base. The longer you leave Syndopour, the firmer it will become.”

They recommend against using intricate molds because “the base is more brittle than other melt and pour.”  I just checked the bars from yesterday and the edges are not at all brittle.  I know for sure that the melted base for those bars was within a couple of degrees of 80C.  For my next round of testing I will include an unadulterated batch heated to 83-85C.

Essential oils - can affect “setting time, hardness, clarity.“ The Day 1 bars I made using an FO are as soft as the two sets from that day that were made with EOs.  That doesn’t rule out issues with using EOs, but they’re not the primary issue for me at the moment.

The base can be remelted, which is good to know for the future. I’m going to leave what I’ve made alone and keep track of what happens over time.

As I noted above, I used a little extra IPA to dissolve the dl-Panthenol. It sounded like a great idea to include some in a bar, but in the midst of flying by the seat of my pants I realized that I didn’t know how to add it. When I make lotion, I add it during the cool down phase and have never had a problem. Lotioncrafters specifies a melt point of 64.5-68.5C.  According to this site, it’s soluble in water, ethanol, methanol, and propylene glycol; slightly soluble in glycerin and has a boiling point of 118-120C, so I guess I will try adding it directly to the melted base, or maybe to a portion of the base that I can incorporate into the bulk of the base. The ingredients in the base are: Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate (20-40%), Propylene Glycol (20-40%), Glyceryl Stearate (10-20%), Aqua (10-20%), Glycerin (10-20%).

I tried the pink bar again a few minutes ago.  It’s a little firmer than it was yesterday, but not what I would call hard or brittle compared with soaps I’ve made.  The lather looked very similar to what I aim for in my soap recipe, with a good distribution of bubbles initially, including some up to a cm or more in diameter. The lather transforms to a foam and then gets almost creamy with more rubbing.  I would call the hand feel “silky,” but not slippery like a soap made with a good percentage of RBO feels. After I dried my hands they initially felt just a tiny bit tacky, but that went away as they dried further. My hands are pretty dry overall due to testing so much soap and I may not be the best one to judge hand feel. I assume the base is formulated to suit normal/average hair. My hair is fairly grey at this point, a bit coarser than it was when I was younger (coarse side of average), tries to get frizzy in humid weather and my scalp leans dry, especially in the winter and if I wash my hair more than every three days. This has me thinking that I could add a wee bit of oil to a next batch.  My choices will be jojoba, or any of the base oils I keep on hand (shea?), or I could order another oil or something else. I will do more research on my own and try the bars I made, but if anyone has any suggestions for my kind of hair please let me know!


----------



## Obsidian (Jul 1, 2022)

You should test a bar for awhile before adding oil. The formula looks like it could be gentle enough not to dry out you scalp.
If you are adding oil, I'd go with argan or jojoba.

I'm really interested in this base. I like solid shampoo bars but buying all the separate ingredients is too expensive. 
Looking forward to hearing how these perform.
If you need a oily scalped, fine haired guinea pig for testing, let me know


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Jul 1, 2022)

Thanks Obsidian!  I will test for a bit before adding the oil.  I am still at the bottom of a steep learning curve when it comes to bath & body.  I formulated a couple of lotion recipes a few years ago, liked them and basically stopped there.


----------



## AliOop (Jul 1, 2022)

For your type of hair, I'd concur with argan or jojoba oils. Meadowfoam seed and broccoli seed might be other good choices. My dry, coarse hair responds well to all of those, as well as silk amino acids, which you already added.

Does the base have any form of panthenol in it already? If so, adding more in the form of ProVitamin B5 may not be desirable. If not, then adding that does seem prudent, although I have no experience with that specific type. My go-to is powdered DL-panthenol, but only because its readily available and not as expensive as other forms.

I really appreciate all your work and how you freely share it with the rest of us!


----------



## JoyfulSudz (Jul 1, 2022)

I've been reading about, making and testing many syndet bars over the last couple months.  My hair is grey, colored, curly (often frizzy), and fine.  I found that glycerin just sucked in the high humidity here in the PNW and made my frizzies worse.  More oil in my base didn't add much value. I save that for my conditioner.  Hydrolyzed protein, daikon radish seed extract, and honeyquat proved to be the winning additives for me.


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Jul 1, 2022)

@AliOop According the manufacturer, the base has only Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate (20-40%), Propylene Glycol (20-40%), Glyceryl Stearate (10-20%), Aqua (10-20%), Glycerin (10-20%).  The dl-panthenol I have is the powdered form.  That’s all I’ve seen on Lotioncrafter, but I see now that MakingCosmetics has it as a liquid.  I forgot that I have some Meadowfoam seed oil, so I guess that’a another option to consider when I get to that stage of testing.  Thanks for the tips.  As for sharing, I’m here to learn and if I can help someone else avoid wasting expensive ingredients, all the better.

@JoyfulSudz I had an inkling that the glycerin might exacerbate the frizzies. I have the protein and will check out those other additives.  Thanks!


----------



## Jersey Girl (Jul 2, 2022)

Thank you for the very detailed description of your experience. Will be following closely


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Jul 2, 2022)

Today’s update:

The Day 1 bars may be catching up with the Day 2 bars in terms of firmness.  Based on the bottom edges, I still wouldn’t characterize any of the bars as brittle.

The matcha tea bar is turning tan already, especially on the top side that is exposed to light and air.  

I washed my hair today using the pink Syndopour bar. I also used my normal shampoo by mistake after grabbing the wrong container when I was reaching for conditioner.  I used my normal conditioner after using the pink bar for a second time.  Lathering up with a bar shampoo is a bit different.  I didn’t want to rub it directly on my head, so I built up some lather in my hands and then rubbed that into my hair.  It didn’t seem to be making much lather on my head until I added a bit more water and then all was good.  It wasn’t lather like my usual shampoo makes, possibly because I use more of that than is needed, but the hand feel was enough to signal where it was in my hair and where to distribute it further. My hair was noticeably squeaky clean after both rounds with the Syndopour bar, and not squeaky clean feeling with my regular shampoo (Nexxus Therappe).  My really clean hair has dried and feels good.  My scalp isn’t red and it doesn’t feel irritated.


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Jul 3, 2022)

There’s no sign of the bar sweating so far, but they’re sitting in my air conditioned house. I found this statement about packaging the product:

“It is a product specifically designed to help consumers conserve water, reduce carbon footprint and reduce the use of plastics, as it can be packaged in card cartons or wrapped in recyclable paper.”

The Soap Kitchen web page for Syndopour provides a link to a Stephenson Guidebook pdf that I didn’t find on the Stephenson website.  It includes a few example formulations.  Look in the documents section towards the bottom of the page.

In this Stephenson video, the recommended melting temperature is 85C, with a pouring temp in the range 70-85C.


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Jul 8, 2022)

Day 8

The bars are all about the same now in terms of how they feel, which is dry, but not waxy or brittle.  There’s no sign of sweating on any of them.

I‘ve now washed my hair twice with a rose-scented pink bar and once, earlier today, with one of the square green bars, which contain dl-panthenol, silk amino acids, lavandin and rosemary eos. My hair has been great all week, including after riding my bike a couple of days in hot, humid weather. No frizzies! My scalp wasn’t red or irritated with the pink bar, but it felt different for a reason I can’t explain (a tiny bit sensitive?) and the FO was too strong for my nose. The pink batch was the only one I scented at 2% and the only one that has an FO scent rather than EOs.  My scalp feels totally normal after using the green bar, so I’m going to stick with it for a bit.

Does anyone know what a typical/standard protocol is for testing for irritation from shampoo?  I can look it up, but thought I would check first.


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Jul 9, 2022)

Day 9

I’m happy with the soft feel of my hair today and my scalp feels normal. My hair is remarkably straight and not frizzy even though the weather is wet outside.  This is after washing with the shampoo bar and then adding about a tsp of my normal conditioner since I still haven’t gotten around to making the conditioner bars.  The first photo is of the top of my head and the second one is of the bottom ends where pre-Covid coloring remains.  I tried using purple shampoo to tone down the color, but the commercial brands give me a headache.


----------



## AliOop (Jul 9, 2022)

Wow, that looks fantastic! Your natural color looks great. I am trying for the third time to grow out my coloring, as well. Had I not caved two other times since March 2020, it would be over by now.


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Jul 9, 2022)

Pre-covid I noticed that all my retired friends let their hair go grey while my professional colleagues were still coloring their hair like I was. It continues to be the expectation in my world, along with wearing at least some makeup and business dress, including heels. I can break the rules now because I’m close to retirement and no longer working for a promotion or a better raise. It’s so much easier!


----------



## AliOop (Jul 9, 2022)

Heels?! That's almost a cuss word in my book. I am thankful that most of my work-related meetings are on Zoom now. Business on top, sweats on the bottom. Makeup, yes. Heels - HARD NO.


----------



## earlene (Jul 12, 2022)

Looking good, @Mobjack Bay!

My violet#2 (per this discussion) came while we were in DC; Hubby just picked up our mail from the Post Office yesterday.  And the Syndopour came the day before we left.  So I can make a shampoo bar this week & start trying it out.

I think I'll make only one unscented bar as a trial.  And see how it works for me before making additional bars.  I'd like to know how the bar smells without added scent.

How long from making to using did you go?  Is your white bar unscented?  You said it is 'unadulterated' so I suspect it is unscented.  Have you used it yet? 

I don't wash my hair as often as when I was constantly sweating from hard work; I guess I just don't do the heavy sweaty stuff that I used to do quite so much anymore.   Plus I keep my hair very short these days.  

I'll update my thread with my own experience once I make my first bar, since my concern was really as much about the violet#2 as it is about the Syndopour.


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Jul 12, 2022)

@earlene I’m going to be really interested in how the violet #2 works out for you because I could use a little toning on my ends. The first trial I did was on day 3, with the pink bar.  I have not tried the uncolored, unscented bars, but should do that so I have the control.  To my nose, the unscented bars have a very faint scent of generic soap.

To date, I have the impression that the shampoo bar is leaving less of something on my hair compared with the shampoo I was using.  My hair feels soft and smooth.  I’ve washed it 2x with the pink bar and 2x with the square green bar that has the dl-panthenol and silk amino acids added.

Using the shampoo bar I made is not like washing with liquid shampoo. It takes a bit more work to get a lather rather than a lotion-like feel. When I washed my hair yesterday, I lathered up the bar by hand, which softens the outer surface a little, and then swiped it across the top and sides on my head and also around my hairline along the back of my neck between my ears.  With some water added from the showerhead, I was able to build up a foamy lather that felt like the shampoo experience. 

The unused bars are still sitting out on my dining room table and haven’t changed in a noticeable way over the last week or so.  They’re still firm, not brittle or waxy and not sweating.  The color in the bar with matcha tea stabilized after the initial color change.  The photo shows the green bar that has been used 3x now, including 1x by my partner, with the unused green bar.  Those two bars were about 70 g each of base when they were poured.


----------



## Quilter99755 (Jul 13, 2022)

I jumped in an bought some Syndopour. I was ready to try a new pourable recipe but the ingredients cost over $70, so decided the Syndopour was a better deal even with the high shipping.

I'm just doing no color or scent since it is mainly for my daughter and how it gets along with her cochlear implant. 

My impression after the pour and after they came out of the molds was icky. It definitely felt like a Melt and Pour soap. I think it is definitely a soapy smell right out of the container. They felt wet but were NOT sweating. After about two days it didn't feel as wet but they are soft. I made them on Saturday and this morning I checked again...no wetness, firmer but even without pressure, my fingernail will put a mark of the bar. This is the 4th day.

I did notice in the clean up process that there was not as much suds as my other syndet recipes. I am going to wait for about a week before I try it.

I did find with my other syndet bars, that because most of them broke or at least chipped off a bit that I put them in the little organza gift bags to hold all the parts together. I put the bag under the shower water for a second or two, then rub that between my hands to start the sudsing action. Then I rub it on my hair. I find that it doesn't tug as much on my hair and distributes the suds a lot better. May end up using that method even if these don't break or chip.


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Jul 13, 2022)

Quilter99755 said:


> I jumped in an bought some Syndopour. I was ready to try a new pourable recipe but the ingredients cost over $70, so decided the Syndopour was a better deal even with the high shipping.
> 
> I'm just doing no color or scent since it is mainly for my daughter and how it gets along with her cochlear implant.
> 
> ...


I have almost no experience with melt and pour so the comparison is really useful for me.  I have some questions and if you have the time and inclination to answer, thank you in advance.  Do you know what temperature the base reached when you melted it? How soon did you unmold? Do your other syndet recipes include the other surfactant (SCS?).  If I’m remembering correctly, that one is more bubbly, but less mild. I would need to go back and check my notes to be sure. With respect to the fingernail mark in the bar, does that not happen with other pourable syndet recipes you make? The only thing I have to compare with is soap and one batch of melt and pour soap that I made recently.

I will try the organza bag method the next time I wash my hair.  Thanks for sharing all of the observations and the tip.


----------



## Quilter99755 (Jul 13, 2022)

I'm sorry but forgot to get my thermometer out ...I melted in the microwave in short spurts of one minute or so as I was afraid to get it too hot. When the last of the syndopour melted I poured it into the mold.

I put the mold in the refrigerator for 24 hours(it's been over 100 here for the past few days), then let it sit on the counter for an hour or so then unmolded. It was in a flower mold and unmolded perfectly. It came out feeling sort of wet...but that is what I equated Melt and Pour like.

My other recipes use both SLSa and SCI (no SCS )...neither have been pourable, so they are pressed into a moon cake mold (sort of). They are sort of dry to start with, which I think makes them crumbly, especially if I drop them. And no, my fingernail moved over the top of those will not make a mark. I bought DIY recipe for her pourable syndet bars but her recipes are totally different and is going to take a major change to go over to her new method. Buying the Syndapour was cheaper to try out than buying the full ingredients. 

I plan on giving my daughter one to try out for a week starting Saturday...that gives it a week to "cure" and if it is more than that to get hard enough to use then I'll try another recipe. It usually takes about a week of use for her implant to get irritated. If it works AND lasts a reasonable amount of time then I will probably just continue to use the Syndapour. If not, then I'll get the other ingredients and try the pourable DIY recipe. I haven't had any problems with any of the syndet recipes on my own hair plus I am also one of those that can use regular soap on my hair without a problem...so I am only going down this rabbit hole to find something for my daughter.  Since she does not make soap/syndets the melt and pour would be ideal for her after I can no longer mange making it.


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Jul 13, 2022)

@Quilter99755 thank you!  Your experience with other syndets and melt and pour allows you to put this product into a broader context.  It’s very helpful.  I hope it works out for your daughter.


----------



## Quilter99755 (Jul 14, 2022)

Actually, I need to thank you for testing this out. I did not know of the product, although when I was using Melt and Pour soap, it was with Stephenson's. I'm hoping this works for her. It will be easy to gift her with the base and a mold or two and let her do her own shampoo as she needs it. Chemistry has never been my long suit. And I equate the snydet bars with that! I can go back to my soap and play on the soap calculators to my hearts content.


----------



## Quilter99755 (Jul 20, 2022)

Update on my daughter's use. She keeps her hair short...post operative short...about 3/4" to 1" more or less. She has used the syndopour 3-4 times. So far no irritation at the cochlear implant site, so that is a big plus. She feels that the suds it produces is smaller than the other syndet bars that I have made but that is not a big enough minus to stop using it. And her hair/scalp feels cleans and rinses well. She also said it felt like the bars are being used up at a faster rate than our other attempts, too. That might be a game changer. It will take another week or two before she says "for sure" that it isn't irritating her implant site.

One of the reasons that I stopped using Stephenson's Natural Melt and Pour Soap was that it didn't last very long (and it was about that time that I started my own journey with HP soaping). So maybe that is a factor of all Melt and Pour soaps? I used one base from a craft store that made my skin itch so did not finish using that base, and then found the "natural" base from Stephenson's so never used any other kind.  

I think I will start a test on my hair now that I got an update from my daughter. I'll get back with you in another week or so.


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Jul 26, 2022)

I was away at a gathering this past weekend and had five friends test one of the pure base bars I made in late June. They were all shampoo bar newbies so I explained in advance that it would not be like using a high sudsing liquid shampoo and described how I distribute the shampoo on my head and work it around to build a bit of a lather and clean my scalp.  All testers have partly or fully grey or white hair.  The feedback was uniformly positive and they all wanted to know when I will have them for sale!  This is a crowd that travels and they immediately made the connection to the convenience of packing fewer liquids.


----------



## Quilter99755 (Jul 27, 2022)

Great to hear about your testers! For traveling the shampoo bars are awesome! The first time I traveled after making the first of my syndet bars meant it was totally easy to get all my liquids in the quart zip bag.

On my testing I actually managed to get my hair wet...in the shower with my glasses on...to test out the suds. By feel I'd say it is a smaller suds than my other bars, but was surprised that it didn't look any smaller with glasses on. There might have been a bit less suds but not any smaller. My hair felt nice and soft after the shampoo but might have had a little less body than the last bar I used. Since I kept forgetting to put a bar in the shower, I've only used it once so far. But I will report back after I get a week or two of use out of it.


----------



## Juggsy (Jul 29, 2022)

can I ask what the pH is? Does the base say what pH is? Have you tested the pH?


----------



## Quilter99755 (Jul 29, 2022)

I have not personally tested it , but their website says between 5-6.


----------



## earlene (Aug 3, 2022)

I have only washed my hair once since making the sydopour purple shampoo bars (because I do not shampoo frequently), but the lather was really fabulous.  The first pass less than the repeat.  I had a lot of product build-up in my hair, hence the low lather with the first pass.  Both times, I wet my hair first, then used the bar on my hair.

To be fair, I do not know if MP soaps have the same issue of first time use being less lathery than subsequent uses, but if that is the case, it may also have had something to do with my experience.

In any case, I am pleased with the soap so far.  I am not sure when I'll be washing my hair next, as it still seems fine, as long as I don't go out in the heat and start sweating from my head, which may well happen if we go for a walk midday.  But I've been avoiding the highly humid outdoor heat here.

I am still unsure how long a bar will last, but since I do not shampoo my hair very often, it may not be a real concern for me anyway.  For travel purposes I do like it, but I also wish it were not so soft; for a bar soap it is much softer than my lye soaps, so I'm really not used to that.


----------



## AliOop (Aug 3, 2022)

@earlene I don't recall if you put yours in the freezer to harden. Some folks, including Susan Barclay Nichols over on Swifty Crafty Monkey, are adamant that this makes for a harder, more "plasticized" (her word) shampoo bar over the long term. 

Of course, I assume she means a frost-free freezer, since those are so low in humidity. I mention that because some folks do use mini-fridges or old fridges in their soap rooms, and many of the freezers on those aren't frost-free, IME.


----------



## earlene (Aug 3, 2022)

I did, but not sure if time in freezer matters, as I don't really recall for how long they were in there.
I wonder if I should put back in freezer and see if it makes a difference.


----------



## AliOop (Aug 3, 2022)

If you are a subscriber, here is the link to her discussion on that issue. I don't think it is accessible to non-subscribers, which is why I'm not pasting the actual text here.


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Aug 3, 2022)

Back of the envelope calculation here - The test bar I’m using was approx. 70 g when I started and I’ve used it nine times (3x per week). Based on a visual check, 50% of the bar or 35 g remains.  That puts my usage at under 4 grams each time I wash my hair.


----------



## earlene (Aug 4, 2022)

AliOop said:


> If you are a subscriber, here is the link to her discussion on that issue. I don't think it is accessible to non-subscribers, which is why I'm not pasting the actual text here.


Okay, thanks.  I have left it in there over an hour at this point, so I'll either take it out tonight or may wait until morning and let it warm to room temp and check to see if it seems less soft.  Also I may not have left them out in the open long enough before we left on our trip.  I cut them to fit inside my mini-soap travel box so no evaporation can happen.  I did take it out to 'air dry' while in Florida, but didn't think to re-freeze.  

So I am hoping the re-freeze and a couple of days or more to air-dry may give me a harder bar.  Thank you again, for the link.  I did not recall what it said and you saved me from searching for it.  In fact, just now I bookmarked it so I don't have to search for it.  The drawback may be the humidity and heat, as she says that will inhibit this drying out process.  But it is what it is and I'll just have to give it a go with what is available in this environment.


----------



## AliOop (Aug 4, 2022)

Mobjack Bay said:


> Back of the envelope calculation here - The test bar I’m using was approx. 70 g when I started and I’ve used it nine times (3x per week). Based on a visual check, 50% of the bar or 35 g remains.  That puts my usage at under 4 grams each time I wash my hair.


How does that compare to how quickly you would go through a liquid shampoo?


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Aug 4, 2022)

AliOop said:


> How does that compare to how quickly you would go through a liquid shampoo?


I have no idea at all, but let’s do another back of the envelope calculation. A squirt of my shampoo from the pump bottle is about one tsp. which is what I usually use to wash my hair.  If the liquid shampoo weighs 6 g per tsp (slightly heavier than water?), I’m using 6 grams per wash. So far, my estimated use of the shampoo bar is 3.9 g per wash, but that does not take into account the initial testing at the sink, which means my actual usage per shampoo event is probably a bit lower. If the first cut estimated numbers are correct, I need 43% less shampoo bar by weight each time I wash my hair, which equates to a 54% increase in number of washes with the shampoo bar compared with the liquid shampoo.


----------



## AliOop (Aug 4, 2022)

That sounds quite promising! Do you think it works out to less money per wash, as well? I haven't paid much attention to the cost per wash since I'm committed to using the solid shampoo even if it is more expensive. My hair and scalp are healthier, and I like the reduction in packaging waste, although ingredient packaging and delivery to my home create their own issues.


----------



## Quilter99755 (Aug 4, 2022)

I'm going to take a break from my testing because right now I am comparing how my hair feels in the heat wave we are having with how it felt before the heat wave (and humidity). In the meantime, I will pop the bar into the freezer for a day or two just to see if it does change the feel somewhat AND before I start in again I will weigh my bar. I think that is warranted since Darcy felt it wasn't lasting as long as the others. And I'll do the same for my current syndet bar that I'll go back to using, so I'll have that to compare it with. Gotta find a place in the bathroom to mark the number of uses, too, since I don't always shampoo on a regular basis....except in the high heat days.

It appears that the heat is somewhat less but it feels muggy, so may just wait until we can live in the house without air conditioning. It might be a while before you hear back from my testing on Syndopour.


----------



## Carly B (Aug 4, 2022)

I tried my Syndopour bar and I like it better than the other Stephenson M&P shampoo base.  I prefer bars when I have short hair, but I have hair now almost to my waist, and I find my hair snarling up with most shampoo bars, but it didn't with the Syndopour.  I don't notice that much
of a texture difference from other M&P bases.  I'm still not a fan of Stephenson's M&P conditioner.  I'm thinking I'll need to add some argan or coconut oil to it, because I really didn't like the way my hair felt after using it.


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Aug 4, 2022)

AliOop said:


> That sounds quite promising! Do you think it works out to less money per wash, as well? I haven't paid much attention to the cost per wash since I'm committed to using the solid shampoo even if it is more expensive. My hair and scalp are healthier, and I like the reduction in packaging waste, although ingredient packaging and delivery to my home create their own issues.


The four pounds of Syndopour I bought from Bulk Apothecary cost $9.33/lb ($.58/ oz) including shipping and tax after a first time customer discount of 15%.  The Nexxus shampoo I was using costs in the range of $.45-$.50/oz plus tax when I buy the 33.8 oz size.


----------



## Cricket (Aug 9, 2022)

Quilter99755 said:


> I'm sorry but forgot to get my thermometer out ...I melted in the microwave in short spurts of one minute or so as I was afraid to get it too hot. When the last of the syndopour melted I poured it into the mold.
> 
> I put the mold in the refrigerator for 24 hours(it's been over 100 here for the past few days), then let it sit on the counter for an hour or so then unmolded. It was in a flower mold and unmolded perfectly. It came out feeling sort of wet...but that is what I equated Melt and Pour like.
> 
> ...


Don’t out the syndet bars in the fridge. It can take three days for them to harden and it feels more like a lotion bar instead of MP which I work with every day.


----------



## Quilter99755 (Aug 10, 2022)

Cricket said:


> Don’t out the syndet bars in the fridge. It can take three days for them to harden and it feels more like a lotion bar instead of MP which I work with every day.


I only put the syndet bars in the fridge overnight because the temps here were over 100 and probably more in my garage where I put the bars to solidify before taking them out of the mold. They went into my soaping storage after they were unmolded and have been there for at least a couple of weeks. One of the other members suggested putting in the freezer to get them harder...which did not work. They are still very soft, which I already know the feeling since I worked with Stephenson's Melt and Pour soap years ago. 

I am now using the bars but have weighed the current one so I can compare it's decrease in weight with the other syndet bars I have made. I'm not all that sold on the product at this time but want to give it a fair test before I make a decision because the ease of making has to go into this decision, along with my daughter's result with her cochlear implant.


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Aug 10, 2022)

I’m still happy with how the Syndopour is working for my hair, but curiosity got the better of me and I broke down and watched a Humblebee YT video on making a shampoo bar.  The recipe included something like 75% ingredients that are solid at room temperature and the rest was liquid.  I think she said the water content was 11%.  Stephenson gives % ranges for the ingredients in the base, which is kind of annoying, but at a minimum the propylene glycol, water and glycerin add up to 50%.  I thought about buying a few shampoo bars to try, but they’re fairly expensive, so now I’m thinking about buying shampoo bar ingredients.  We need a rabbit hole emoji…


----------



## AliOop (Aug 10, 2022)




----------



## AliOop (Aug 10, 2022)




----------



## Jersey Girl (Aug 10, 2022)

AliOop said:


> View attachment 68182


You can’t see me , but I’m right behind you!


----------



## Carly B (Aug 11, 2022)




----------



## SoapSisters (Aug 13, 2022)

Mobjack Bay said:


> I’m still happy with how the Syndopour is working for my hair, but curiosity got the better of me and I broke down and watched a Humblebee YT video on making a shampoo bar. . . .  I thought about buying a few shampoo bars to try, but they’re fairly expensive, so now I’m thinking about buying shampoo bar ingredients.  We need a rabbit hole emoji…


Do it! I bought the DIY Pourable Shampoo bar recipe, and I was so imtimidated by the ingredient list - what each ingredient did and how I would source each one - that I just stared at it for a few months. Then I at myself down and made an excel sheet of each ingredient, how much it cost, where to buy it, etc. This helped me finally make the leap and purchase the items for the above recipe and Humblebee's rice shampoo bar. 

I'm so happy I did! I really love both of them and I really love comparing the two of them. My family members were reluctant to try them at first, but I just recently got enthusiastic reviews from my daughter, who has long, thick hair, and her husband. They especially loved the scent, which is rosemary EO (used as my "extract") and litsea EO.


----------



## earlene (Aug 13, 2022)

Mobjack Bay said:


> I’m still happy with how the Syndopour is working for my hair, but curiosity got the better of me and I broke down and watched a Humblebee YT video on making a shampoo bar.  The recipe included something like 75% ingredients that are solid at room temperature and the rest was liquid.  I think she said the water content was 11%.  Stephenson gives % ranges for the ingredients in the base, which is kind of annoying, but at a minimum the propylene glycol, water and glycerin add up to 50%.  I thought about buying a few shampoo bars to try, but they’re fairly expensive, so now I’m thinking about buying shampoo bar ingredients.  We need a rabbit hole emoji…


Me, too.  I washed my hair for the third time now using my Syndopour Purple Shampoo bar (with violet #2 colorant).  After the initial first use where it felt so extremely soft, I did as suggested by Susan at SwiftCraftyMonkey & did put it in the freezer overnight, which did apparently do the trick to make it feel less soft so that will be my practice going forward, I think.  I have only washed my hair with the syndapour shampoo bar since starting on our roadtrip 3 weeks ago, and no conditioner.  My hair looks & feels good; I am very pleased.  At this point trying to compare how much I use as related to my usual liquid L'Oreal Elvive seems unnecessary to me.  Perhaps I will feel the need to do so in the future, but since I have plenty of both to last my very short hair a very long time, I will just keep on using the Syndopour Shampoo bar soap to evaluate the long-term use on my hair.  It is the very first time ever using a shampoo bar, so I cannot compare it to others. 

My main motivation was to find out if it would work for me and my hair. Plus the fact that I travel so much I thought it worth my while to evaluate ease of use while traveling, knowing that packing bar soap is much more convenient that re-filling tiny little bottles with liquid for packing into my ditty bag.

edit: spelling correction


----------



## dibbles (Aug 13, 2022)

earlene said:


> put it in the freezer overnight, which did apparently do the trick to make it feel less soft so that will be my practice going forward


Do you mean you just put it in the freezer overnight when it is made, or keep it in the freezer when not in use? I'm glad to hear it's working for you - thanks for sharing your experience.


----------



## earlene (Aug 13, 2022)

dibbles said:


> Do you mean you just put it in the freezer overnight when it is made, or keep it in the freezer when not in use? I'm glad to hear it's working for you - thanks for sharing your experience.


I don't keep it in the freezer between uses, but after the first use I was commenting in another earlier in this thread about how I wished it didn't feel so soft and was reminded of Susan's experience and her recommendation to freeze overnight after making. Thanks to @AliOop for reminding me.  So I put it in the freezer overnight (probably more like 12-16 hours) and it really has made a difference.  It no longer feels 'too soft' after using it to wash my hair.  As I recall Susan did not speculate on the how or why it makes a difference, but the fact that it did for me is enough evidence for me to repeat the process next time I make this shampoo bar.


----------



## artemis (Aug 20, 2022)

I'm visiting my crafty friend this week. She travels almost every year and has used syndet bars for her hair.  So, we decided this would be the perfect project for us!

We ordered from Candle Science, along with several fragrance samples to play with. Our liquid color came from the M&P section of Michael's. The molds came from Amazon.

The only tip from our experiment is to melt more base than you think you need-- it will solidify on the sides of your container as you pour into your mold. 

We're going to test them out over the next few days to see what we think. I have never used a shampoo bar before.


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Aug 28, 2022)

I made another small batch of Syndopour yesterday for a couple of testers.  I inadvertently heated it to almost 200F (in under 30 sec) and the bars are quite firm this morning.  At this point I recommend heating the base to 185F before pouring.  That’s the maximum temperature I’ve seen recommended in Stephenson’s product information.

As for personal perceptions, I am still loving this product.  After two months of testing with the original bar made with allantoin and provitamin B5, my hair is as smooth and shiny as it has ever been and my scalp feels good.  As a bit of a reality test, I recently decided to try my former shampoo product again, but then immediately rewashed with the shampoo bar because my hair felt heavy and not clean. That’s a shifting baseline if ever there was one.  I do wish the Syndopour made more bubbles and had a little more glide on my hair, but right now that’s not enough to send me down the shampoo bar rabbit hole.  One more thing to mention is that I’m not having issues with my hair getting frizzy on rainy days.  I thought that might be an issue due to the high-ish glycerin content of this product.


----------



## earlene (Aug 28, 2022)

I had ordered a pillar mold for a candle that I thought would make a nice shape for a shampoo bar to use with Synodpour Shampoo base.  It came a couple of days ago.  It will mean cutting it to size since it is a pillar, but it's not very tall.  Depending on how thick I cut them, it will probably make 3 or 4 bars.  I hope it will work to cut as I do recall this being softer than I wanted, but I am going to give it a go sometime within the next week or two.  Not that I need to replace the bars I already made, but because I want to test out the mold ad because I want to try some fragrance.  I have not considered any other additives except the Violet #2, because other than the scent of Syndopour alone, I am very happy with it as is.

One other update is that my hair was more style-manageable without product when I just let it dry using my fingers to assist. Normally my hair lays flat and unflattering if I don't use gel or powder, but this time, I let it dry & just using my fingers while it was drying got it to go in the direction I normally do when I use the powder or the gel, only it was just still wet from the shampoo bar and my fingers were doing the lifting.  I cannot say it was as good as when I use product, but the result was better than when I would try this with my regular shampoo.  So it seems it provides more than clean hair.


----------



## Quilter99755 (Sep 3, 2022)

I have been testing both the Syndapour bars and my old recipe for syndet bars that have to be molded rather than poured. I tested each one 5 times with 2-4 days between shampooing. I have fairly curly fine thin  OLD hair.

With the Syndapour bars the process couldn't be easier. That is the biggest plus in my books. The first day of the shampoo my hair felt great, quite a bit of body which is nice. The second day it just didn't feel as clean and sometimes by the second evening I would have shampooed my hair if I were going out for the evening. Bed head is definitely a problem with this bar. Most days require a lot of moisture to "fix" the bed head syndrome.

My old recipe is a combo of SCI and SLSa plus other ingredients. It has to be molded in a moon cake or similar type mold. At this time I am grinding SCI noodles into powder as it is easier to mold. I get along with this recipe quite well other than it's a pain in the tushes to do the molding. The first day of the shampoo is great, lots of body but the second day is quite a big difference in how my hair feels and reacts. And there is almost no bedhead. Third day gets a little bedhead  and needs more moisture to fix it into my usual style. 

If I were choosing between the two for ease of making...Syndapour hands down. For how my hair feels and reacts, it has to go to my old recipe. I also weighed both of the bars prior to using them. The Syndapour lost 50% of the bar after using it five times, where my old bar only lost 21% of the bar. And the usage definitely goes to the old bar.

My daughter who has the cochlear implant says both are about the same for her, although she feels like the Syndapour gives her bedhead a little more than my old recipe. Since her hair stays clipped at about a half inch, it's not an issue. And there is something about the old recipe that if she brushes her hand across her hair it will leave just a bit of dandruff? or something that comes out of her hair. I have tried it on my hair and do not get that at all. 

So, I plan on trying out another pourable recipe before I call it quits, just in case we can figure out what is making the dandruff in her hair. But it is great knowing that the Syndapour is available and works on her implant. She confirmed that if I were unable to make the molded syndet bars, she would not bother and would find an outlet for the Syndapour. So that is a plus. 

Hope this helps others in some way. Remember that this is just the results from two people and for sure everyone has different results.


----------



## artemis (Sep 22, 2022)

@Quilter99755 

After seeing your post in the "hair" thread, I wondered how your daughter was liking the syndopour bars?


----------



## Quilter99755 (Sep 22, 2022)

See the post above this one. If I can't find an easy pourable recipe she will use the Syndapour after I can no longer supply anything better. LOL But overall it is still giving her the feeling that it is not clean after a day. I even notice it on the days that she doesn't shampoo. That's okay in the summer since she usually showers daily, but not so much in the winter when she doesn't. Like she says, it's better than the others that have irritated her implant.


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Sep 27, 2022)

I finally started using a second syndopour bar.  The first one wasn’t completely gone, but I wanted to bring a new one with me on my trip to California.  It’s making a bit more lather in the soft water at my son’s house and also has more of a glide on my hair here than it does in the harder water at my house.

updated usage calculation - the first bar weighed 70 g at the start and I used it for 3 months and an estimated 36 washes, which brings the usage down to 2g per wash from my initial estimate of 4g per wash.


----------



## JenniB (Sep 29, 2022)

Quilter99755 said:


> I jumped in an bought some Syndopour. I was ready to try a new pourable recipe but the ingredients cost over $70, so decided the Syndopour was a better deal even with the high shipping.
> 
> I'm just doing no color or scent since it is mainly for my daughter and how it gets along with her cochlear implant.
> 
> ...


I have been making 3oz bars and they don’t last as long as I think they should because they break into pieces. They have stayed pretty soft too.


----------



## Quilter99755 (Sep 29, 2022)

I think they last longer when I put them in the bags rather than direct pressure on my hair/scalp.


----------



## AliOop (Sep 29, 2022)

Quilter99755 said:


> I think they last longer when I put them in the bags rather than direct pressure on my hair/scalp.


I was just noticing that last night! Our little bag of scraps is lasting forever. 

ETA: To clarify, I haven't made any using the Syndapour base, only the ones from the DIY B&B recipe. But I am definitely noticing that using the bag increases the number of uses from the bars.


----------



## SweetSoap (Nov 16, 2022)

I’ve made syndopour shampoo bars and am testing them now. I go through the bar very quickly. They don’t last long. Any suggestions on how to remedy that?


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Nov 19, 2022)

SweetSoap said:


> I’ve made syndopour shampoo bars and am testing them now. I go through the bar very quickly. They don’t last long. Any suggestions on how to remedy that?


My longest lasting bars are the ones made with base that I inadvertently heated to almost 200F before pouring.  The highest melt temp I’ve found in Stephenson’s literature is 85C, 185F.  Bars that I made with base melted to a lower temperature were noticeably softer (my photos and description of issues are at the top of this thread)


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Saturday at 10:57 PM)

I made another batch of bars just before Christmas and feel like I may have worked the kinks out of the process.  the bar I’m testing from this batch is close to what I would consider perfect.  For the previous batch, I overheated the base a bit and the bars were on the too hard side of things, I had to work the bar in my hands to get the lather to build and then apply the lather to my head.  With the new bar I’m getting enough product directly on my hair to build lather. This bar has some slip to it.

I used this product for several months this fall and found it to be very mild.  My testers have been positive and the one who tested this last batch was very enthusiastic.  Her well water is as challenging as ours when it comes to making bubbles.

I changed my process this time based on some web research. Unfortunately, I managed to lose track of the link where someone suggested keeping the base covered while heating so it doesn’t dry out.  Another site recommended heating in 30 sec burst at half power.  I also read somewhere, probably at the link I can’t find, that this base dries out when re-heated.  Just tonight I read on the Stephenson site that the base can be re-melted, but they also state that the bars should be kept sealed so they don’t dry out.

Here are the key aspects of my process:
Keep the melting container covered while heating so the base doesn’t dry out.
Heat to between 158F and 185F according to the Stephenson product guidance on their website. 
To melt, heat in 30 sec bursts at 50% power in microwave, from the instructions here and they also have a linked video. I‘m still working with small batches and decided to use a water bath instead.  No overshoot on the temperature this time!
I let the melted base temp reach 180F.
After the base cooled a bit, I added a small amount of ultramarine blue in just enough in 91% isopropyl alcohol to dissolve/suspend and pour the colorant into the base.  I also added 1% lavender essential oil.
This batch is softer than the last one, but not overly soft or crumbly like one of my early batches.


----------



## Jersey Girl (Sunday at 11:37 AM)

Mobjack Bay said:


> I made another batch of bars just before Christmas and feel like I may have worked the kinks out of the process.  the bar I’m testing from this batch is close to what I would consider perfect.  For the previous batch, I overheated the base a bit and the bars were on the too hard side of things, I had to work the bar in my hands to get the lather to build and then apply the lather to my head.  With the new bar I’m getting enough product directly on my hair to build lather. This bar has some slip to it.
> 
> I used this product for several months this fall and found it to be very mild.  My testers have been positive and the one who tested this last batch was very enthusiastic.  Her well water is as challenging as ours when it comes to making bubbles.
> 
> ...


Thank you @Mobjack Bay  for sharing your experiences.  I bought this base several months ago but still haven’t got around to trying it. I really appreciate and value your input.


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Sunday at 3:38 PM)

@Jersey Girl I hope you will give it a try and report back


----------



## Jersey Girl (Sunday at 3:40 PM)

Mobjack Bay said:


> @Jersey Girl I hope you will give it a try and report back


I sure will!


----------

