# HARD bar recipes?



## jmk3482

I'm looking for more inspriation on a soap recipe. I would like to make a harder bar. Like 41 - 48 on the hardness scale but I don't want it to be too cleansing because I have dry skin. Does anyone have a favorite recipe they would like to share?

Thanks!


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## soap_lady

I suggest you sit down with soapcalc and just start working with oils and numbers until your happy with the results.

I'm not posting a specific recipe because I have no idea what oils you currently have or what your preferences are.

But yes it is possible.  Personally I think 40 is plenty hard on the scale.  And I like to see the cleansing number around 16-17 with a maximum of 19.   And conditioning at least 54-57.


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## jmk3482

I have been working with oils and numbers on the soap calc and I have some ideas but I wanted opinions, suggestions and inspiration from others that have made harder bars. The soap calc doesn't give me that.

It doesn't matter what I have on hand because if someone is nice enough to post a recipe that I really like, I'll just buy what I need. 

I appreciate that you gave me the numbers that you prefer. Thank you.


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## beautifulbay

using lard in your recipe will harden your soaps up real nice.

try this ...

3/4 C lard
3/4 C shortening
1/2 C coconut oil
1/4 C lye
3/4 C water or goats milk (frozen chunks)
fragrance as desired

use cold proces method...you will have a hard, nicely pure white soap


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## james

60% lard
20% coconut oil
20% olive oil

with a 5% superfatting, I use the following measures: 

450g lard
150g olive oil
150g coconut oil
106g lye 
250ml water

This recipe gives a soap with the following properties:
hardness 44
cleansing 14
condition 51
bubbles 14
creamy 30
INS 156


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## Etelka

beautifulbay said:
			
		

> using lard in your recipe will harden your soaps up real nice.
> 
> try this ...
> 
> 3/4 C lard
> 3/4 C shortening
> 1/2 C coconut oil
> 1/4 C lye
> 3/4 C water or goats milk (frozen chunks)
> fragrance as desired
> 
> use cold proces method...you will have a hard, nicely pure white soap



When measuring out you should be using proper scales and not a cup,  in such a small batch it is so easy to overmeasure the lye you would only need a small extra amount and you'd be looking at lye heavy soap.  Please never ever use cups to measure your ingredients,  but invest into a good set of scales.
Etelka


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## IanT

Olive oil alone will make a very hard bar!!


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## lecheymiel

For me, the best way to increase the hardness is the beewax, take your favorite recipe, add a little bit ... and voila!


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## MikeInPdx

For me......I can get a really rock hard bar with about 75% tallow or lard, 20% coconut, and about 5% castor.

Up the superfat to about 7-8% and it will also be a very mild soap.


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## whisks

can the lard be replaced by palm oil?


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## dagmar88

sure.
Here some info on common oils:
http://soapmakingforum.com/forum/viewto ... highlight=


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## Sibi

I just recently started using 2% beeswax in my soaps and it sure does work for hardening the bar up!  Am very pleased with the results


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## MikeInPdx

whisks said:
			
		

> can the lard be replaced by palm oil?



Sorry for the late response, but yes.  Not an issue at all.

You can also make a weapon hard, but mild bar using about:

40% Palm
35% Olive
20% Coconut or PKO
5  % Castor


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## whisks

thanks mike. will 5% castor make the soap sticky?


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## carebear

not mike, but 5% won't be a problem.  above 10% might be problematic.


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## whisks

thanks, carebear!


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## Jody

lecheymiel said:
			
		

> For me, the best way to increase the hardness is the beewax, take your favorite recipe, add a little bit ... and voila!



What a great idea.  I am going to have to try this.


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## KayleyC

*Oil instead of lye? Glycerin base alternative???*

So, you can use oil instead of lard or lye to make soap? Im hearing many different things and Im new to making soap as well. Im looking for an inexpensive and more natural way to make soap just to experiment safely. I also read something somewhere about using glycerin soap as a melt and pour base. I dont know if thats true or not and if it is, will I be able to produce bars with a glycerin base? Like I said, Im new.


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## IwantItgreen

*Re: Oil instead of lye? Glycerin base alternative???*



			
				KayleyC said:
			
		

> So, you can use oil instead of lard or lye to make soap? Im hearing many different things and Im new to making soap as well. Im looking for an inexpensive and more natural way to make soap just to experiment safely. I also read something somewhere about using glycerin soap as a melt and pour base. I dont know if thats true or not and if it is, will I be able to produce bars with a glycerin base? Like I said, Im new.



Unless I'm not reading it correctly, but yes you always need lye to make soap.  "No lye, no soap and that's no lie."  You can use oil, or lard, or oil & lard, but you always need lye.


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## KayleyC

ya.. I was confused with the Glycerin base instead of lye. but read more and found that glycerin base has lye already in it. lol. That answered my question. but thanks


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## sarawithouth

Sibi said:
			
		

> I just recently started using 2% beeswax in my soaps and it sure does work for hardening the bar up!  Am very pleased with the results



Is it just me or...when I plug my recipe in on soapcalc.net and shift oil amounts around to add 2% beeswax, the only attribute that changes is my hardness goes DOWN.  From 30 to 28!  No matter which oil I take from.  What's up?  Will it still produce a harder bar even if the calc says it wont?


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## carebear

It will, if it does anything.


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## agriffin

And beeswax can be tricky to soap.  You have to soap with higher temps so it doesn't harden before you're done mixing.  And even then I've had weird stuff happen in the mold. 

I know some people are successful with it...but not I.


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## sarawithouth

carebear said:
			
		

> It will, if it does anything.



Thanks, I'll have to try and compare the results!


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## countymounty22

My best reccomendation for a hard bar is stearic acid, a natural acid from animal fat.  I would do some research and find somebody who uses it frequently though.  Too much will seize your batch.  A buddy of mine just used it and is hooked on it.  The bar he gave me was as hard as a commercial bar.


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## judymoody

countymounty22 said:
			
		

> My best reccomendation for a hard bar is stearic acid, a natural acid from animal fat.  I would do some research and find somebody who uses it frequently though.  Too much will seize your batch.  A buddy of mine just used it and is hooked on it.  The bar he gave me was as hard as a commercial bar.



For the vegan/vegetarian minded among us, you can also get palm-based stearic acid.


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## new12soap

I use stearic acid to make my soap VERY hard. I use it sparingly, 1/8 to 1/4 oz ppo, I melt it separately and add it at medium trace. It thickens FAST. I also use sodium lactate, which works well, too. And no, soapcalc will not give you an accurate hardness number when trying to calculate beeswax (which I have also used, but I find it a PITA). In general, harder butters/fats will make a harder bar, softer liquid oils = softer bars. The exception is olive oil which as Ian said will make a very hard bar of soap, but only after it has cured for 6 months to a year.

However, I cannot determine from what source any of my stearic acid is made, whether vegetable or animal. Some are opposed to using animal products, others are opposed to using palm (the veg source of stearic), just wanted to put that out there.

Salt in small amounts will also harden soap, but it will cut down lather too. Try adding 1/2 to 1 tsp salt ppo, plus 1 tbsp plain white sugar ppo to boost your bubbles.


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## corrine025

I used 2% stearic acid in a bar I recently made.  Im not sure how it will affect it because I just unmolded it today actually but I thought I would give it a shot!


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## Obsidian

My hardest bar was made with 7% coco butter and 7% shea butter but it has no slip, sticks right to your skin lol.


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## dosco

countymounty22 said:


> My best reccomendation for a hard bar is stearic acid, a natural acid from animal fat.  I would do some research and find somebody who uses it frequently though.  Too much will seize your batch.  A buddy of mine just used it and is hooked on it.  The bar he gave me was as hard as a commercial bar.



SA is used extensively in shave soaps, my recipe uses 50% SA, 25% CO, and 25% lard.

But ... you're not making shave soap. OK. This past fall I made 3 non-shave soaps for christmas gifts, one was Pine Tar soap, the other two were sort of "generic" soaps (one scented with tea tree oil and the other with a baby powder FO). All three used 10% SA in the formulation. Each were made using HP.

I wouldn't call these soaps "super hard" - the triple milled Yardley lavender soap I use in the shower is really really hard stuff.

But, I would say that you shouldn't be afraid of including it in your soap. You can't really CP with it, though, so you'll have to think through your manufacturing process.

Cheers-
Dave


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## Dorymae

When I want a really hard bar of soap I use tallow. Never fails and I don't have to worry about calculating something else to add.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

This is a rather old post, ladies and gents - not sure that the OP is still as interested as we are.


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## Nevada

Soy wax (melting point 120-130F) may be easier to use than Bees Wax (melting point 144-147F)

Any discussion of soap hardness should include Deanna's treatise http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=50018


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## Luv2Soap

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> This is a rather old post, ladies and gents - not sure that the OP is still as interested as we are.




Well I am interested so I appreciate everybody's input.


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## BWsoaps

My bars are usually hard within 24 hours. I use olive oil and lye. 

Over the 6 week curing process they do go a lot harder though.

I am going to trying 2%beeswax like you suggested and see how that works though... Thanks


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## LisaAnne

I just read it and am interested!


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## PetraAnyz

The most hard bar I have ever made is definitely a salt bar. You can add a tsp od sea or himalayan salt per pound of soap to your custom soap recipe or do a real salt bar. Look at lovinsoap.com and find salt bar recipe. The thing is to add the same amount of salt as your oils and to have at least 50-100% of coconut oil and superfat between 10-20%. I love it. It is really soothing and hydrating soap. I dont need to use a lotion after shower!


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## cmzaha

PetraAnyz said:


> The most hard bar I have ever made is definitely a salt bar. You can add a tsp od sea or himalayan salt per pound of soap to your custom soap recipe or do a real salt bar. Look at lovinsoap.com and find salt bar recipe. The thing is to add the same amount of salt as your oils and to have at least 50-100% of coconut oil and superfat between 10-20%. I love it. It is really soothing and hydrating soap. I dont need to use a lotion after shower!


Although salt bars are very hard they are also very soluble because of the high coconut oil which allows them to lather and will not last as long as soaps with palm, lard or tallow. 100% coconut soap is the main soap used for sailors soap becuase it lathers in salt water. As mentioned you can a tsp tsp of salt ppo to help harden a bar. Hard does not equal longevity in soap. I discovered it several years ago but DeeAnna has a good post which describes the numbers in soap calc


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## HoneyLady

Soy wax is a soft wax, and will stay a soft wax.  Beeswax does have a high melting point, but at 2% or less, helps harden a bar.  I've never tried caranuba wax, although it is even harder than beeswax.

For a hard bar, I'd do something like lard/coconut/PKO flakes at a 33/30/30 ratio, with 5% castor for bubbles, and 2% beeswax.

Personally, I am not crazy about high OO soaps.  I find them drying, and with my hard water, they are slimy at anything over about 20%.

Beeswax over 5% softens a bar, for some technical chemical reason I don't understand.  (Dee Anna!  Over here!  {waves hand} ) 

~HL~


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## dixiedragon

HoneyLady said:


> Beeswax over 5% softens a bar, for some technical chemical reason I don't understand. (Dee Anna! Over here! {waves hand} )
> 
> ~HL~


 
Really? Interesting. I've never used over 5% beeswax - I use 5% and love it. Those are my hardest bars. Texture wise, they might be my favorite - sleek like a piece of marble.

I recently made some bars that are 10% beeswax, I'll let you know when they're ready to test!


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## HoneyLady

Well, I am quoting Soap Queen on this 'over 5%' statistic.  She does have a recipe for an 8% BW bar I used; and indeed, it was not ever as hard as the >5% bar.  But it did, indeed, feel lovely.  And BB has a lovely Saffron & Honey FO that was perfect for it.

But for hard bars, I like Lard/CO/PKO Flakes.  Have not tried salt yet.  On my list of experiments to try.

  ~HL~


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## PetraAnyz

cmzaha said:


> Although salt bars are very hard they are also very soluble because of the high coconut oil which allows them to lather and will not last as long as soaps with palm, lard or tallow. 100% coconut soap is the main soap used for sailors soap becuase it lathers in salt water. As mentioned you can a tsp tsp of salt ppo to help harden a bar. Hard does not equal longevity in soap. I discovered it several years ago but DeeAnna has a good post which describes the numbers in soap calc



I agree with you that hardness does not equal longevity. But my salt bar 150g has live in the shower (4 people using it every day, my daughter throw it in the bath water every day- still rock hard, no solubility ever noticed-I think this is the reason why sailors use it) for 3 months and there is still a chunk. Maybe its not enough for you. For me its very long...Im looking forward to get rid of it because I have a new recipe soap cured that I want to try!


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