# Newbie- preservatives and other questions



## Freya (Jan 7, 2010)

Hi everyone!
I'm pretty new at bath and body product making, and even newer to this forum (wich is incredible, by the way; I've been on it for 3 days XD)

I've already done bath bombs with 2 recipes (one that just crumbled, and the other one was perfect), and tried to do some bath melts/ bath truffles with mixed results (crumbly, too oily, too hard or just right, depending of the recipe!). I also tried to make a solid perfume, but it was too hard as well (probably too much beeswax).

Now I'm interested in making scrubs and foaming scrubs, the last one by using _Foaming Bath Butter_ from New Directions Aromatics.

I was wondering
1- Do I need to add a preservative if I use the base (I guess not since it's already made almost to use as it is)
2- NDA sells 2 preservatives: _Liquid Germall Plus_ and _Geogard Ultra_. Which one would be better, and is one of them Paraben free?

I read on 2 different web sites that Germall plus was paraben free, or that it contained paraben, so which one is it? I don't see it in the ingredients, but I don't have any knowledge on the subject, so maybe there's one that's a by-product??

Thank you all for the infos; I'm pretty sure I'll have more questions in a not-so-distant future!!!


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## dagmar88 (Jan 8, 2010)

That base should be preserved already.
Here more info on preservatives:
http://www.lotioncrafter.com/lotioncraf ... ervatives/


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## gekko62 (Jan 12, 2010)

Ive never used either,but try the preservatives 101 link here http://southernsoapers.com/news/classes/

Great info.


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## pink-north (Jan 23, 2010)

I have a question about "all natural" products. Isn't it dangerous not to put a germicide or preservative in your lotions? Is Vitamin E (d-alpha tocopherol) a good enough preservative to prevent mold growth and other nasties from invading your product?

I keep asking this question, but it keeps nagging me. I've seen so many products that do not put anything other than the vitamin E and I wonder how they pull it off.


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## IanT (Jan 23, 2010)

pink-north said:
			
		

> I have a question about "all natural" products. Isn't it dangerous not to put a germicide or preservative in your lotions? Is Vitamin E (d-alpha tocopherol) a good enough preservative to prevent mold growth and other nasties from invading your product?
> 
> I keep asking this question, but it keeps nagging me. I've seen so many products that do not put anything other than the vitamin E and I wonder how they pull it off.



I am no expert on preservatives, however Vitamin E (Tocopherol) is not a preservative per se, it is an antioxidant meaning that it pulls out free radicals from your mixture and allows more time before the oils go rancid...it in essence preserves the length of time that you can keep your lotions from going rancid, but a true preservative is needed. (This goes for lotions that include water)... Now if you are going to make a lotion without the use of water, (i believe its referred to as a cream at that point?) then it would be okay to use Vit E or Rosemary Oil Extract alone since there is no water involved.

Water=nasties after a while.

So Vit E will not prevent mold growth, but it will prolong the life of your oils and prevent them from going rancid prematurely.

That being said.. I am right there with you, I am a licensed massage therapist and I cant tell you how many lotions etc that I have seen (but do not use) that only have Vit E or ROE as a "Preservative"... which kind of bothers me... makes me think theyre A) hiding something or B) havent done their research... I dont know which one I find more unnerving. But thats why I started making my own lotions for my practice. 

I dont use a preservative (yet) but I make very small batches and keep it in the fridge.... it usually doesnt last more than 3-4 days. and I figure if I can leave meat in there for a week with no problems, it should be okay for lotion too?

at least thats my logic...correct me if Im wrong...


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## pink-north (Jan 23, 2010)

Thank you very much for clearing that up for me. I would like to produce and all natural product, but agree that bacteria is much more dangerous than the preservatives and will do more damage.

Now to come up with suitable formulas. What do you know about body butters?


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## IanT (Jan 23, 2010)

pink-north said:
			
		

> Thank you very much for clearing that up for me. I would like to produce and all natural product, but agree that bacteria is much more dangerous than the preservatives and will do more damage.
> 
> Now to come up with suitable formulas. What do you know about body butters?



To tell you the truth, not very much... I have been sticking to mostly soaps/chapsticks and lipbalm/lotions, but as far as stuff to include... the stuff on my list of definites would be cocoa butter, shea (in some form), aloe butter, mowrah butter... to name a few


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## gekko62 (Jan 24, 2010)

pink-north said:
			
		

> I have a question about "all natural" products. Isn't it dangerous not to put a germicide or preservative in your lotions? Is Vitamin E (d-alpha tocopherol) a good enough preservative to prevent mold growth and other nasties from invading your product?
> 
> I keep asking this question, but it keeps nagging me. I've seen so many products that do not put anything other than the vitamin E and I wonder how they pull it off.



Yeah,makes me wonder too. 
If you made your own & kept it refrigerated for up to a week thats one thing but when they're selling? Perhaps they're not fully disclosing on the label?

Check this out-comparison of preserved vs non-preserved lotion

http://www.cosmeticsinfo.org/

blech!! :shock:


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## IanT (Jan 24, 2010)

eeeeeeeeeew !!!


see thats what I was thinking too...that they arent fully disclosing on the label... I might have to play detective and see whats going on with that...  Im going to look into it next time I see a massage lotion that is claiming to be preservative free etc....

and then only using ROE or Vit E in it ....

see that link def is helpful to see what can happen on an extreme end, but there are also the little microbial baddies that you cant see building the bacteria colonies long before they become apparent...

its whenthey become evident that the problem is absolutely certain... I think thats why I have never bought the lotions claiming to be preservative free... Id never use something like that on a client!


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## Cattleyabubbles (Jan 31, 2010)

*Preservatives*

WSP has a really good info video on Lotions and Creams. Grapefruit seed oil is a temporary preservative, not really sure though how long product would be safe for use. I advise you talk to chemist friend if you know someone to find out further details & ask them in depth questions. There's also potassium sorbate and ETDA and few others can be used as preservatives minus Paraben DU of course.


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## dagmar88 (Jan 31, 2010)

To quote the FDA:

_There are no regulations or requirements under current United States law that require cosmetic manufacturers to print expiration dates on the labels of cosmetic products. Manufacturers have the responsibility to determine shelf life for products, as part of their responsibility to substantiate product safety. FDA believes that failure to do so may cause a product to be adulterated or misbranded.

Voluntary shelf-life guidelines developed by the cosmetic industry vary, depending on the product and its intended use. For instance, a 1980 article by David Pope in Drug and Cosmetic Industry suggested a minimum shelf life of 18 to 24 months "to maximize cost efficiency in warehousing, distribution, and marketing."

Among other cosmetics that are likely to have an unusually short shelf life are certain "all natural" products that may contain plant-derived substances conducive to microbial growth. It also is important for consumers and manufacturers to consider the increased risk of contamination in products that contain non-traditional preservatives, or no preservatives at all._

http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/ucm074248.htm

In other words, they expect you to make sure your products have a reasonable shelf life and when selling products without any or with non-traditional ("all natural") preservatives you are at risk of them being seen as adulteraded (containing filth) or misbranded (false or misleading information on packaging).
These malpractices probably won't be covered by your insurance cause they're unlawful.

More information on GSE (which isn't exactly natural anyway)
http://www.terressentials.com/truthaboutgse.html


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## Cattleyabubbles (Jan 31, 2010)

*That's true*

Most body care products don't have expiration dates printed on them. I've notice that few manufacturers may have Batch Lot # printed on back or bottom of packaging for their product(s). Preferable to include a stabilizer in your formulations, along with preservative and also use a vitamin E. I know it's overkill but it's better than making nasties growing in your formulation. They also sell a Microbial self test kit to test your formulation yourself at home without sending it outside to microbiologist for lab testing.


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## pink-north (Feb 12, 2010)

Has anyone used optiphen plus? I think I asked the question before, but can't find the thread. I need to know how to use it. How long should I test my product before launching it? Any suggestions?


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## Zenobiah (Feb 13, 2010)

pink, I was going to order Optiphen plus but, 1. I was getting my stuff from Brambleberry and they don't carry it and 2. I found out that Germall is paraben-free and Brambleberry had it in stock so I ordered that. 

I may try Cosmocil CQ or Optiphen plus later on.


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## Mr. Soap (Feb 13, 2010)

i have been using Liquipar Optima for several years now with very good results.  it is inexpensive to buy and requires very little to do a good job.  i use it in lotions and creams and have never had any nasties in any of them.


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## pink-north (Feb 14, 2010)

Hi Zen,  forgive my ignorance, but is paraben something people tend to be allergic to and does optiphen contain any?


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