# that stinky neem oil



## bodhi (Sep 27, 2014)

blech,  I would love to use it in a leave on but cant stand the scent.  I have given up on masking it so im wondering i anyone has any ideas or tried and true ways to improve its scent.  There has to be something it can be blended with that makes a tolerable if not nice scent.


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## goji_fries (Sep 27, 2014)

I share your pain. Only in CP can it die down after a few (2-4) months. Can you imagine a fractionated coconut oil roll-on with 20% neem? Garlicky nut oil delight. I almost did cover it about a year ago but grew impatient during the cure time. 

I was using lower percentage neem (5-10%), dried iris root, anise seed ground, anise, juniper and lavender EOs. Dried galangal root may do the job, this is my next expermiment now. Galangal is STRONG.


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## newbie (Sep 27, 2014)

I just got Honey Beeswax FO from BB that is ridiculously strong. Even a few drops on paper scent the house. I got a touch on my nose sniffing the bottle and I am in the throes of developing a hatred for it because it is so very strong. I wonder if it would cover neem. I may have to do a single bar batch!


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## bodhi (Sep 28, 2014)

Ha ha, garlicky nut oil delight might just be a good marketing ploy     5-10 is what I think I am aiming for i think.  Iris, anise, lav and juniper, thats an interesting combo.  lots of sharp notes there.  galangal too.  were you going for scent of benefit?   Galangal is interesting.  I never thought of that in relation to neem.  hmmm.  If there was a way to capture the fresh when its first dug and sliced i think i would die on the spot its so beautifully intoxicating.  how is the scent of it dried, iris too, ive never used either dried?  Im trying to imagine how it might work with the neem.  Im thinking something really base but sweet... Of course its not helping that i cant find my notes chart.  

Newbie, thank you for the thought and reply but someone else might have to try that one.  i am staunchly anti fo.  so much so that im almost surprised no one responded to you and told you to duck.  lol


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## goji_fries (Sep 28, 2014)

bodhi said:


> Ha ha, garlicky nut oil delight might just be a good marketing ploy     5-10 is what I think I am aiming for i think.  Iris, anise, lav and juniper, thats an interesting combo.  lots of sharp notes there.  galangal too.  were you going for scent of benefit?   Galangal is interesting.  I never thought of that in relation to neem.  hmmm.  If there was a way to capture the fresh when its first dug and sliced i think i would die on the spot its so beautifully intoxicating.  how is the scent of it dried, iris too, ive never used either dried?  Im trying to imagine how it might work with the neem.  Im thinking something really base but sweet... Of course its not helping that i cant find my notes chart.
> 
> Newbie, thank you for the thought and reply but someone else might have to try that one.  i am staunchly anti fo.  so much so that im almost surprised no one responded to you and told you to duck.  lol



Iris is actually the powdered root which smells sort of creamy; it is a fixative and an anchor for other scents -- called orris root. 

Anise seeds ground up, star anise ground up, anise seed tea (yasoon), and star anise EO can be used. I notice using ground up seed in conjunction with EO & orris root tends to hold the lighter notes of anise better than nothing. The claim that Star Anise is toxic is folklore, although a Japanese plant similar to SA that is and get confused.

Juniper is used very lightly, to round off some of the neem. Too much and the mixture with neem smells bad. juniper wood EO is better than the berry/leaf EO but is more rare. 

Lavender of better quality is used to knock down the scent of this virtual Frankenstein we call neem. There are other EOs I used and some at just a few drops. Of course patchouli helps as an earthy base note and so does sandalwood but SW EO is ridiculously expensive. BB sells a good copy of sandalwood I hear.  

There are companies that sell galangal dried that is so strong you cant take a wiff of it. I have some. I am hoping a combination fo infusion and powdered with orris root will provide a sensual scent. 

Neem smell dies out in CP although not completely but the garlicky nut sour note is tamed after a few weeks. I am not recommending it but I've jeard of some people using over 20% neem in some recipes. Sounds interesting.


BTW, if you go to the internationalmarket they sell neem leaves which you can try. I think the bark too. As far as safety of those two I am not 100%.


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## newbie (Sep 28, 2014)

Thanks for not ripping me a new one, Bodhi! And thanks for being polite in telling me. Very close call. I would say if I do it again, I'm fair game. 

If you are thinking of sharp notes, maybe ginger EO? I really don't know how that would fly. Neem is a tough one. I have certainly heard of several people using eucalyptus plus lemongrass EO's with it and they feel after cure, it works pretty well.


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## bodhi (Sep 28, 2014)

I thought you might be referring to orris.  You have my curiosity piqued with the dried galangal.  Ive always used it fresh and the fresher the better because I dont particularly care for it as it ages, but because of that ive also never tried drying it.  i might just do that to see how it would blend.  And a juniper wood extract might be worth evaporating too now that you mention it.  very interesting.  thank you.  SA as toxic?  who says that?  afaik its only toxic to viruses and cancers. lol.  

I actually like it in cp after a good cure and i usually put a little sandalwood with it but not at 20%  thats just overkill.    

And now that youve got me thinking, orris, anise, licorice and lavender might be worth a too...


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## newbie (Sep 28, 2014)

Bodhi, you don't have a tamaskan, do you?


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## bodhi (Sep 28, 2014)

The Dog?


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## goji_fries (Sep 28, 2014)

newbie said:


> Thanks for not ripping me a new one, Bodhi! And thanks for being polite in telling me. Very close call. I would say if I do it again, I'm fair game.
> 
> If you are thinking of sharp notes, maybe ginger EO? I really don't know how that would fly. Neem is a tough one. I have certainly heard of several people using eucalyptus plus lemongrass EO's with it and they feel after cure, it works pretty well.



Good call on the Ginger EO. IDK off the top of my head the limit for Ginger EO but there is one. Ginger Lemongrass will probably do it in the right combination. Excellent call. :wave:



bodhi said:


> I thought you might be referring to orris.  You have my curiosity piqued with the dried galangal.  Ive always used it fresh and the fresher the better because I dont particularly care for it as it ages, but because of that ive also never tried drying it.  i might just do that to see how it would blend.  And a juniper wood extract might be worth evaporating too now that you mention it.  very interesting.  thank you.  SA as toxic?  who says that?  afaik its only toxic to viruses and cancers. lol.
> 
> I actually like it in cp after a good cure and i usually put a little sandalwood with it but not at 20%  thats just overkill.
> 
> And now that youve got me thinking, orris, anise, licorice and lavender might be worth a too...



Yeah some internet guidance counselor was claiming that Star Anise EO is toxic. I have never found it to be true but everybody must study for themselves I suppose. Some mistake Star Anise (Chinese) for Japanese Anise plant. Star anise is a tree usually from China; two completely different things but both contain anise oils. I want to get the bark of Star Anise, it can be used too.

Orris root powdered is relatively cheap $12/lb. IRIS ROOT BUTTER ON THE OTHER HAND is more expensive than gold.  :think: Example = $50/1ml, 30ml = 1oz, 30 x 50 = $1500 per oz

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=B000F4YD40&linkCode=as2&tag=moondragonbirt0d


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## bodhi (Sep 28, 2014)

goji_fries said:


> IRIS ROOT BUTTER ON THE OTHER HAND is more expensive than gold.  :think: Example = $50/1ml, 30ml = 1oz, 30 x 50 = $1500 per oz
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=B000F4YD40&linkCode=as2&tag=moondragonbirt0d



wow.  i might havr to go dig up some iris and see what the big deal is!


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## goji_fries (Sep 28, 2014)

bodhi said:


> wow.  i might havr to go dig up some iris and see what the big deal is!



Well you could but you'd have to wait about 5 yrs for the root to react and then you could extract the oils.:Kitten Love:


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## newbie (Sep 29, 2014)

Bodhi, yes the dog. THere is a Bodhi with a made-up last name on the tamaskan facebook pages.  Just wondering if it was you.


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## bodhi (Sep 29, 2014)

Nope, not me.  Those are some nice dogs though.


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## lsg (Sep 29, 2014)

Cedarwood and rosemary both have strong scents and can help mask the odor of neem.  I love neem in dog soap and in salves.


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## newbie (Sep 29, 2014)

I also thought about patchouli with neem, playing off the earthy (kind of) scent it has after curing.


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## Obsidian (Sep 29, 2014)

I've made a unscented oatmeal bar with 25% neem, after about 8 months the soap smelled like black tea, its a really nice soap now. I also use neem at 5% in my shampoo bars and after 4 months, I can still smell it even through the very strong huckleberry FO.


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## sassanellat (Sep 29, 2014)

If it's toxic to anything, it's often toxic to many things. And if it's toxic to cancer, it's toxic to regular cells.


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## lsg (Sep 30, 2014)

I have never heard that neem seed oil is toxic.  It is used for many skin conditions.


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## goji_fries (Sep 30, 2014)

lsg said:


> I have never heard that neem seed oil is toxic.  It is used for many skin conditions.



I read before that the oil is only toxic if taken in lab rat amounts for months. There is also neem leaf and neem bark. Indian store or international market can get some for $2 a bag.


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## bodhi (Sep 30, 2014)

sassanellat said:


> If it's toxic to anything, it's often toxic to many things. And if it's toxic to cancer, it's toxic to regular cells.


  While this can sometimes be the case it is definitely not always true.


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## bodhi (Sep 30, 2014)

lsg said:


> I have never heard that neem seed oil is toxic.  It is used for many skin conditions.


  As a general statement that is not true.  The oil should not be taken internally (as in eaten) though it is used for some internal uses.

Edit:  I Mis read.  I thought you said you have heard that neem seed oil IS toxic.  My bad.


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## goji_fries (Sep 30, 2014)

bodhi said:


> As a general statement that is not true.  The oil should not be taken internally (as in eaten) though it is used for some internal uses.



I am not recommending it but it is the bark  and leaf that was taken internally. AYRVDA


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## sassanellat (Oct 1, 2014)

Yes, it is true. My statement was correctly qualified. I'm a biologist (genetics and micro) with a lifetime of experience doing medical research including making chemotherapeutics, so I deal with these issues on a weekly basis. *For the most part*, the rule of thumb is that chemicals that are toxic to one living thing are toxic across the board. Antibiotics (a class of chemotherapeutic defined by cellular toxicity) are a great example: they preferentially kill bacteria, but they are also toxic enough to humans that there are only a handful of them in the world, and many are relegated to topical use only due to high toxicity. Well over 99.9% of toxic chemicals out there are more toxic to humans than bacteria.


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## lsg (Oct 1, 2014)

bodhi said:


> As a general statement that is not true.  The oil should not be taken internally (as in eaten) though it is used for some internal uses.



I don't believe that I stated that neem seed oil was not toxic, just that I had never heard of it being toxic.  I also never advocated that it be taken internally.  So as a general statement what I said was true.:razz:


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## bodhi (Oct 3, 2014)

lsg said:


> I don't believe that I stated that neem seed oil was not toxic, just that I had never heard of it being toxic.  I also never advocated that it be taken internally.  So as a general statement what I said was true.:razz:


  After not being on the board for a few days, i went back and re read.  I mis-read what you originally wrote lsg, and edited my comment.  

Just for giggles..  the oil should not be taken orally but it is used internally for fertility control.  There may be other internal uses, but it is generally ill advised to ingest it.  The bark and leaf as goji mentined are taken internally and are considered a great pharmacy unto themselves in ayurveda.  Neem is pretty amazing stuff.  I just wish the oil didnt stink so bad   Sorry for the confusion.


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## goji_fries (Oct 4, 2014)

bodhi said:


> After not being on the board for a few days, i went back and re read.  I mis-read what you originally wrote lsg, and edited my comment.
> 
> Just for giggles..  the oil should not be taken orally but it is used internally for fertility control.  There may be other internal uses, but it is generally ill advised to ingest it.  The bark and leaf as goji mentined are taken internally and are considered a great pharmacy unto themselves in ayurveda.  Neem is pretty amazing stuff.  I just wish the oil didnt stink so bad   Sorry for the confusion.



Imagine deep fried foods in neem oil. :sick:


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## lsg (Oct 4, 2014)

bodhi said:


> After not being on the board for a few days, i went back and re read.  I mis-read what you originally wrote lsg, and edited my comment.
> 
> Just for giggles..  the oil should not be taken orally but it is used internally for fertility control.  There may be other internal uses, but it is generally ill advised to ingest it.  The bark and leaf as goji mentined are taken internally and are considered a great pharmacy unto themselves in ayurveda.  Neem is pretty amazing stuff.  I just wish the oil didnt stink so bad   Sorry for the confusion.



No problem.  I don't think I could get it down either and I can't imagine the smell of deep frying with it.  :crazy:


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