# Brine soap question



## ryan emily (Jun 2, 2018)

Hi everyone! I've been doing tons of research on salt soaps & brine soaps but i never find a clear answer for my question. I know salt soaps require a very long cure time, but ive never seen a recommended cure time for brine soaps. Do they require the same cure time as salt soaps or do they have typical cure time, also, do they improve the hard water scum problem? & will adding citric acid as a chelator work well in brine soap?


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## MuddleDesigns (Jun 2, 2018)

The first soap I ever made was a brine soap.  It really really depends on what your oils are, I've found.  I had a coconut heavy soap, and it set up very fast and cured in about half a month.  I also had an olive oil heavy soap, and it took a month and a half to cure, but cured VERY VERY hard.  I know you add salt to make soap set up faster in silicone molds, so I don't think they take longer to cure; rather to opposite.  

As for the other questions, I'm afraid I don't have an answer for that.


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## cmzaha (Jun 2, 2018)

ryan emily said:


> Hi everyone! I've been doing tons of research on salt soaps & brine soaps but i never find a clear answer for my question. I know salt soaps require a very long cure time, but ive never seen a recommended cure time for brine soaps. Do they require the same cure time as salt soaps or do they have typical cure time, also, do they improve the hard water scum problem? & will adding citric acid as a chelator work well in brine soap?


I add EDTA to my brine soaps and cure them for at least 8 weeks. Salt bars I cure approx 6 months. Like any soap they just become better with time. 



MuddleDesigns said:


> The first soap I ever made was a brine soap.  It really really depends on what your oils are, I've found.  I had a coconut heavy soap, and it set up very fast and cured in about half a month.  I also had an olive oil heavy soap, and it took a month and a half to cure, but cured VERY VERY hard.  I know you add salt to make soap set up faster in silicone molds, so I don't think they take longer to cure; rather to opposite.


You cannot shorten cure if you want a nice soap. Cure takes a min of 4 weeks with longer better. You are not just waiting for the soap to lose water. A well aged soap will last longer, lather better and come down a titch in ph. The longer a soap cures the nicer it gets. Hardness does not indicate cure time


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jun 2, 2018)

^^^ this

A soap may be very hard. It might even have stopped losing much weight. But that does not mean that it is cured, by any means. 

I use citric acid to make sodium citrate in all of my soaps as EDTA is fairly hard to get hold of over here in Europe and I have a plentiful supply of citric acid. When using the acid, remember to calculate for the extra NaOH (Google "citric acid sodium citrate site: soapmakingforum.com" for some top threads on this if you need more information on that)


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## ryan emily (Jun 3, 2018)

i have a a few advanced and beautiful batches under my belt, but im very curious about these. i have a bunch of citric acid, & i have super hard water so i just want to know if brine or "soleseife" soaps rinse off better in hard water aka less squeak/drag when rinsed

btw; I prefer my soaps at atleast 6 weeks. they're so much better around that time. I used one after like two weeks and it made my...privacy uncomfortable a little :/


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## Steve85569 (Jun 3, 2018)

EDTA or Citric acid will both (either) work with hard water to decrease the soap scum/ mineral buildup.
Most salts will harden soap - sodium citrate actually softens soap and seems to be the exception to the rule.

I use sodium acetate and sodium citrate in virtually all of my batches with salt bars and soleseife ( brine soap in English) being the exception. Soap will only hold so much salt of any kind.


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## zolveria (Jun 3, 2018)

I believe its 20 to 50 percent of salt to oils.. also you will need to cut in a few hours or you wont be able to cut it..  I have a love and hate with them.. they don't lather up as much.. so I also add.. 12 tbs of Himalayan salt to my water and 6tbs of sugar or sobital. to me current recipe.. that create a nice bar. no water loss but after 6 weeks. I get hard bars


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## TFriedman (Jun 5, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> I add EDTA to my brine soaps and cure them for at least 8 weeks. Salt bars I cure approx 6 months. Like any soap they just become better with time.
> 
> 
> You cannot shorten cure if you want a nice soap. Cure takes a min of 4 weeks with longer better. You are not just waiting for the soap to lose water. A well aged soap will last longer, lather better and come down a titch in ph. The longer a soap cures the nicer it gets. Hardness does not indicate cure time


I have been soaping 16 years, so feel stupid asking, but what is EDTA?


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## BrewerGeorge (Jun 5, 2018)

TFriedman said:


> I have been soaping 16 years, so feel stupid asking, but what is EDTA?


I mean, I could google the answer from wiki for you for what the acronym actually stands for, but the useful answer is that it's a chelator and anti-oxidant. It helps with soap scum and rancidity.


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## zolveria (Jun 5, 2018)

Supposed to be chelator


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## Iluminameluna (Jul 3, 2018)

The one thing I can't seem to find is the use of seawater to make soap. I have about a half gallon of it, filtered, that I'd like to use.
I don't have hard water, quite the opposite, and even my Bastille soaps have great larger, so would I still have to use citric acid? Can I just sub it with lime juice?
I'm overseas so I can't get all those chemicals here at ALL. Lye being the exception. And no, ordering it online isn't an option. Even fragrance oils are out of my price range.
Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!!

Here's my recipe, thru Soapcalc.org:

Castor oil, 2 oz
Coconut oil, 4 oz
Virgin Olive Oil, 16 oz
Palm Oil, 16 oz
Essential Oils, 2.37 oz
Filtered Seawater, 13.27
Lye, 5.42 oz, @ 35% of  oils
0% Superfat

Add 2 oz each of olive oil and coconut oil with e.o. at trace to Superfat because I'm doing it through CPOP


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## Terri E (Jul 3, 2018)

*You could look up Ariane Arsenault on YouTube, she uses her local seawater to make some of her soaps.*


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## graylady (Jul 3, 2018)

You can substitute the seawater for all of the water in your soap. The lye mix will end up cloudy, but this is normal.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jul 5, 2018)

Seawater is hard, really hard.  Ten or twenty times harder than typical fresh water - most especially the magnesium component of hardness.  It's hard enough that it will actually weigh five or six grams/liter more than pure water.

Those salts are going to be dispersed in your soap so that even though your wash water is soft those salts are waiting right there to make it hard.  It won't be as bad as trying to was WITH sea water, but it will have an effect.  So I would use citric acid or lime juice for a chelator if it was me.


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## ShannonAll (Jul 5, 2018)

Has anyone tried goats milk brine?  I’ve made a couple of batches substituting the frozen milk with very fine Celtic sea salt for all of the water. So far they look great but are too new to try.  I’d love any advice anyone can offer. 
Thank you. 
Shannon


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## shunt2011 (Jul 5, 2018)

ShannonAll said:


> Has anyone tried goats milk brine?  I’ve made a couple of batches substituting the frozen milk with very fine Celtic sea salt for all of the water. So far they look great but are too new to try.  I’d love any advice anyone can offer.
> Thank you.
> Shannon



How are you substituting salt for water?  I’m a bit confused.  What are you dissolving your lye in?


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## ShannonAll (Jul 5, 2018)

Sorry to be unclear. Instead of water I used frozen goats milk. While the milk began thawing a bit, I added sea salt. Kept the milk and salt in an ice bath.  Mashed it with an avocado masher then added the lye.  I strained the lye milk salt mixture while adding it to the oils.  Kept temperatures at 100 to 110. 
Milk 26.6 ounces
Lye 9.88 ounces 
Celtic sea salt 3.34 ounces (milk-lye x 20%)
Sweet almond 7 ounces
Castor oil 7 ounces
Cocoa butter 7 ounces
Coconut oil 21 ounces
Olive oil 21 ounces
She’s butter 7 ounces 
5% super fat (not including any fat from the milk).  
No fragrance 
Bramble berry colorants 
Thanks again


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## DigitalEnigma (Jul 6, 2018)

ShannonAll, your soap looks lovely.


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## ShannonAll (Jul 6, 2018)

Thank you so much!  I have been having so much fun making soap.   I want to thank all of you in this forum!  I’ve learned so much from your comments and suggestions.


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