# Castor Oil Substitution



## JLeigh (Nov 17, 2014)

I'm hoping to make a salt soap soon (say that really fast  ) and was wondering if there is a good substitute for castor oil. Thanks!

I've been trying to find a silicone mold that is about 10" long x about 4" tall and 2.5" wide. The reason is I want thinner soaps but still want to add creativity at the top. I've looked and looked and looked...Can someone point me in the right direction? Thank you.


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## shunt2011 (Nov 17, 2014)

I love salt soap but I can't think of a replacement for Castor and you don't really need one.  You can make 100% CO with a 20% SF and use 50-100% Salt.  You'll still get good lather.  You could also try adding some sugar to your water before your lye mixture.


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## JLeigh (Nov 17, 2014)

Sounds interesting! I'm new to soaping, so I've never heard of adding sugar to lye water. What does adding sugar to the water do? And what % should I add?


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## HorseCreek (Nov 17, 2014)

This is close: https://www.etsy.com/listing/162824195/tall-skinny-wood-soap-mold-with-drop


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## new12soap (Nov 17, 2014)

I agree, you really don't need castor oil in a salt bar, 100% coconut oil works great.

Sugar can help boost bubbles in soap, use it at up to 1 tbsp ppo, but I really don't think you need that in a salt bar, either. JMO, but they already bubble pretty darn well.

Just an FYI, if you are in the US, castor oil is easy to find and relatively cheap in any walmart target kmart walgreens cvs etc, it's in the pharmacy section with laxatives.


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## lsg (Nov 17, 2014)

Try 93% coconut oil and 7% shea butter with an 8-10-% superfat.


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## Obsidian (Nov 17, 2014)

I've use castor in my salt bars a few times and I honestly don't notice a difference when I leave it out. 80% coconut oil with 20% oil of your choice is a good start. I prefer olive oil as I find butters make my salt bars sticky and reduce lather.


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## JLeigh (Nov 17, 2014)

new12soap said:


> I agree, you really don't need castor oil in a salt bar, 100% coconut oil works great.
> 
> Sugar can help boost bubbles in soap, use it at up to 1 tbsp ppo, but I really don't think you need that in a salt bar, either. JMO, but they already bubble pretty darn well.
> 
> Just an FYI, if you are in the US, castor oil is easy to find and relatively cheap in any walmart target kmart walgreens cvs etc, it's in the pharmacy section with laxatives.



Thanks! I'll give it a try . But here's a "newbie question" - - what does "ppo" stand for?



JLeigh said:


> Thanks! I'll give it a try . But here's a "newbie question" - - what does "ppo" stand for?



WAIT! I googled it and the BEST list (from this site) of acronyms for soaping came up! 

"Per pound of oil"

Excellent!


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## new12soap (Nov 17, 2014)

:clap: nicely done!

Yep, per pound of oil, sorry... you get so used to the "shorthand"... you will, too!


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## JLeigh (Nov 17, 2014)

Another question: I can use up to 100% of oil weight in salt bars, but am wondering what the benefits are for less v. more salt. I'm thinking, for one, less salt (say 50%) would make the soap batter easier to deal with, right? wrong? 

But what about advantages to the skin?


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## new12soap (Nov 17, 2014)

I like 25% salt per pound of oil by weight. A lot of people like more. I would suggest starting with 50% salt and see what you think, then you can adjust up or down from there.


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## IrishLass (Nov 17, 2014)

I do 25%, too.

The more salt you add, the harder the soap and the less bubbly your lather.

IrishLass


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## JustBeachy (Nov 17, 2014)

Obsidian said:


> I've use castor in my salt bars a few times and I honestly don't notice a difference when I leave it out. 80% coconut oil with 20% oil of your choice is a good start. I prefer olive oil as I find butters make my salt bars sticky and reduce lather.



I agree and disagree with Obi. You don't really need the castor in a salt soap. I use it at 5%, because........well cause I always have. 

I do a 75% coconut with castor, avocado and shea butter. I don't get a sticky feeling at all, but it's only 5% butter. I think if I made a soap without butter my head would spin off.   Maybe I need to do some experimenting and try to kick my butter addiction.

I've settled into using 50% ppo. Still produces a nice salt feel to the finished soap, but like others have said, it's easier to work with, less chance of crumbles and easier on the lathering.


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## cmzaha (Nov 17, 2014)

Obsidian said:


> I've use castor in my salt bars a few times and I honestly don't notice a difference when I leave it out. 80% coconut oil with 20% oil of your choice is a good start. I prefer olive oil as I find butters make my salt bars sticky and reduce lather.


That is interesting Obsidian, I notice a huge difference when using 10% castor oil. I recently played with some different oil combos and dumped all the salt bars. Back to my original 90-10 coconut /castor with 15% superfat.


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## JLeigh (Nov 17, 2014)

I did it. I used 50% salt ppo (ha! I know what that means now :grin or, rather, I got to the end, started filling the mold and realized - and I hope this happens to other people - I had _forgotten to add the salt._

I regrouped fast and got the salt in though, lol. This is my third CP attempt. Sometimes I feel like I have such a long, long way to go. 

Thanks for your help everyone.

Edit: I DO have a long, long way to go!


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## new12soap (Nov 17, 2014)

if you used a loaf mold, make sure you unmold it and cut it as soon as it will hold together, while it is still warm!


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## JustBeachy (Nov 17, 2014)

JLeigh said:


> I did it. I used 50% salt ppo (ha! I know what that means now :grin or, rather, I got to the end, started filling the mold and realized - and I hope this happens to other people - I had _forgotten to add the salt._
> 
> I regrouped fast and got the salt in though, lol. This is my third CP attempt. Sometimes I feel like I have such a long, long way to go.
> 
> ...



Yeah it would sorta blow the whole batch if you forget to put salt in your salt soap. :razz:

Just kidding. In case no one has mentioned it, you need to check it at around 3 hours from pour. It hardens up fast and if you wait to cut it much beyond 4 to 5 hours it will crumble on you as you cut. I cut mine within 3 hours or so. 

Nice job on the getting it done.



new12soap said:


> if you used a loaf mold, make sure you unmold it and cut it as soon as it will hold together, while it is still warm!



Hahaha, looks like we had the same thought.


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## JLeigh (Nov 19, 2014)

*Another question about salt soap*

LOL. I thought, "Rather than wait 24 hours before unmolding - because it's a salt soap and will crumble when I cut it, I'll unmold and cut in 12 hours. Aren't I smart?"

Of course it crumbled. So I'm going to try it again today or tomorrow and cut it in about 4 hours as you all suggest. I'll get it right next time.

I'll say this though, it's pretty if you like "rustic imperfection." :grin:

Here's the ?: Do you guys recommend gelling the loaf if you're cutting it so early?


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## new12soap (Nov 19, 2014)

Believe me, it has already gelled! Salt soap heats and sets _fast_.

I unmold and cut mine within an hour.

Seriously. As soon as you can, even if it is still the teensiest bit squishy in the middle.

Or, better yet, use individual cavity silicone molds, then no worries, leave it in there a day!


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## Obsidian (Nov 19, 2014)

Salt bars are something you have to babysit and check constantly. I've had batches ready after one hour while others took 4-5 hours. As soon as I can get the soap out of the mold, I cut, often the soap is still quite soft. I've pretty much switched to using cavity molds as its just so much easier.


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## shunt2011 (Nov 19, 2014)

Obsidian said:


> Salt bars are something you have to babysit and check constantly. I've had batches ready after one hour while others took 4-5 hours. As soon as I can get the soap out of the mold, I cut, often the soap is still quite soft. I've pretty much switched to using cavity molds as its just so much easier.


 
Question for you.  I used individual molds for the first time a few months ago and got the worst ash I've ever had.  I mean really thick.  It also ashed on the mold side when I unmolded it.   I couldn't even wash it off.  I've started using them.....dummy here made 48 bars of it :thumbdown:   I have always used a slab with dividers and works great with no ash.  These not so much.

I would like to try them again as I sell a lot of them and wanted to introduce something different but am afraid to take the chance.   I did cover them and put them in the oven just with the light on overnight.

TIA for any suggestions.


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## Obsidian (Nov 19, 2014)

Thats not something I can help with, my salt bars all ash really bad. I have CPOP in cavity molds a couple times and they don't ash but its so easy to overheat salt bars I don't do it often. I have a microplaner I use to scrap off the worse of the ash.


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## JustBeachy (Nov 19, 2014)

That's sorta strange. I make a lot of salt bars and it's one of the recipes I never have had a problem with ashing over. I cover mine with saran wrap, don't insulate or CPOP.   No alcohol spritzing.   No ash.   Weird that you're getting ash.


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## IrishLass (Nov 19, 2014)

Ditto what new12soap and Obsidian said. These things tend to gel and set up fast!

I babysit mine as well, checking for gel every 15 minutes or so, and then once full gel has been achieved, I periodically check for when it has firmed up enough to my liking before unmolding and cutting.

Some of my batches are ready to unmold and cut in about 1 hour, and some are not ready for 3 hours or so. It all depends on the FO for me. 

Basically, I unmold and cut mine when the soap has firmed back up from full gel and is still quite warm/hot, but still soft enough to have just a wee bit of 'give' to it when I press on the surface. That's the perfect time to cut in order for me to minimize crumbling. I might still get a little bit of crumbling at the edges, but it's quite minor and nothing that my beveller can't pretty up in a jiffy.

IrishLass


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## shunt2011 (Nov 19, 2014)

JustBeachy said:


> That's sorta strange. I make a lot of salt bars and it's one of the recipes I never have had a problem with ashing over. I cover mine with saran wrap, don't insulate or CPOP. No alcohol spritzing. No ash. Weird that you're getting ash.


 
I never insulate or CPOP my slab mold.  I just let it do it's thing.   I do put my cover on it.  I can usually unmold in 1-2 hours.  They are still pretty warm but easily removed.   I never get ash on those.

Maybe I'll try the individual molds again.  I've been making the salt bars for almost 5 years I think. They are pretty much all I use for me. 

Keep my fingers crossed..going to do it this weekend.


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## JustBeachy (Nov 19, 2014)

I'm doing three batches of different recipe tweaks on my salt soaps this weekend, more to check quality and performance over time. But, I'll play with them a bit to see if I can pour some different molds,( pretty much always use a loaf mold), different covering methods, etc. See if i can create some ash on any of them. I'll let you know what I find.


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## shunt2011 (Nov 19, 2014)

JustBeachy said:


> I'm doing three batches of different recipe tweaks on my salt soaps this weekend, more to check quality and performance over time. But, I'll play with them a bit to see if I can pour some different molds,( pretty much always use a loaf mold), different covering methods, etc. See if i can create some ash on any of them. I'll let you know what I find.


 
Awesome, thank you!   As I said this is the worst I ever experienced.  Might have to tweak my recipe a bit when I try again.   

Look forward to seeing what happens (or doesn't)


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## Obsidian (Nov 21, 2014)

I always chalked it up to the bars being so zappy when they are cut and having all the sides exposed to air. I rarely gel my salt bars but when I do, the ash is less.


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## JLeigh (Dec 20, 2014)

*Follow up on my first salt bars - THANKS*

I'll be darned but I sold each and every one (except the one I'm using myself) even though they were "damaged". My customer said, "I don't care!" Well, okay! So I just labeled them "Chunky Salt Bars". 

Thanks to everyone who helped me through! Now I'm off to make my next batch. 

You guys are great.

Happy Holidays!


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## Hazel (Dec 20, 2014)

You made your first CP batch November 4, your first salt batch November 18 (or 19) and you are already selling soap. 



JLeigh said:


> Hello, my name is Leigh and I'm new to soap making.  I've been doing MP for a few months, but just made my first small loaf  of CP soap this morning. _*I'm a firm believer in learning all I can about  whatever I put my mind to do. All it takes is some oil, some lye and a  little luck, right?*_ :smile:  _*And maybe the help and advice of some skilled pros.** I look forward to  reading and researching here, and maybe showing off a bar of soap or two  down the road.*_ Best regards to all. Leigh.



I don't even know where to begin.


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## Relle (Dec 20, 2014)

I'm with you Hazel. I need to have a lie down.

 :shock:  :shock:


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## JustBeachy (Dec 20, 2014)

shunt2011 said:


> Awesome, thank you! As I said this is the worst I ever experienced. Might have to tweak my recipe a bit when I try again.
> 
> Look forward to seeing what happens (or doesn't)



I'm glad someone posted here again, I forgot about giving you some results on the salt bars. Since the original post, I've made 5 batches of salt bars. 

One batch in a loaf mold I left uncovered (saran wrap). It got more ash on it than Mt St Helens. The other batches, I did the normal cover with saran wrap and left on a shelf, in the mold, uninsulated. No ash at all. 

One of the batches, I poured a couple of single bars. One covered, one uncovered. The covered was fine, the uncovered had ash, but not as bad as the loaf mold. 

Recipe I use is, 

CO 75%
Avocado 15%
Castor 5 %
Shea or Mango butter 5% (i've been experimenting switching this out)

Salt is normal sea salt, non iodized. at 50% of oil weight. 

All but two batches were different EO blends.

I gotta say, I have the same results on my base recipe soaps as well. CPOP all of them, covered in saran wrap. Every now and then I'll see a little corner of ash on the loaf, and it's always a corner where i didn't get the saran down tight. 

Hope that helps.



Hazel said:


> You made your first CP batch November 4, your first salt batch November 18 (or 19) and you are already selling soap.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't even know where to begin.



I.....am not going to say a thing.


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## cmzaha (Dec 21, 2014)

Salt bars are not even ready to sell with less than a 3 months cure in my opinion and I usually give a 6 month cure for salt bars.


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## shunt2011 (Dec 22, 2014)

JustBeachy said:


> I'm glad someone posted here again, I forgot about giving you some results on the salt bars. Since the original post, I've made 5 batches of salt bars.
> 
> One batch in a loaf mold I left uncovered (saran wrap). It got more ash on it than Mt St Helens. The other batches, I did the normal cover with saran wrap and left on a shelf, in the mold, uninsulated. No ash at all.
> 
> ...


 
Your recipe is very close to mine. The only things I don't do is use a butter and I vary between 25-50% salt. The only one's I got the ash on were the individual molds. Haven't had a chance to play with them yet....Hoping next weekend. Thank you for sharing your results.


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## JLeigh (Dec 22, 2014)

*Thanks!*

I just wanted to thank Relle, Hazel and JustBeachy! It's so much more helpful for a beginner to get anything other than a straightforward, helpful and informative response that might have gone something like this, "I understand you're new to soaping, but you should cure your salt bars for 3 to 6 months and here's why....". 

I haven't received payment for, nor delivered my salt soaps - and won't. I'll find the answer to the curing issue, but it won't be here, will it?


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## JustBeachy (Dec 22, 2014)

JLeigh said:


> I just wanted to thank Relle, Hazel and JustBeachy! It's so much more helpful for a beginner to get anything other than a straightforward, helpful and informative response that might have gone something like this, "I understand you're new to soaping, but you should cure your salt bars for 3 to 6 months and here's why....".
> 
> I haven't received payment for, nor delivered my salt soaps - and won't. I'll find the answer to the curing issue, but it won't be here, will it?



Well, actually, you could find the answers about curing here. In at least a hundred different posts. As well as great advice on all the aspects of starting and running a soaping business.  But to maybe clarify a bit as to this post.

I believe you said, "I'll be darned but I sold each and every one (except the one I'm using  myself) even though they were "damaged". My customer said, "I don't  care!" Well, okay! So I just labeled them "Chunky Salt Bars". 

I've been in the sales business for quite a few years, and while I don't claim to be an expert in anything, "Sold" has always had a fairly definitive meaning to me. I could be wrong though.

Sorry, if you got your feelings hurt. I really am. I was trying to be nice, by keeping my mouth shut. That said, you have a great Christmas and good luck with your soaping endeavors. Peace.


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## Hazel (Dec 22, 2014)

JLeigh said:


> I just wanted to thank Relle, Hazel and JustBeachy! It's so much more helpful for a beginner to get anything other than a straightforward, helpful and informative response that might have gone something like this, "I understand you're new to soaping, but you should cure your salt bars for 3 to 6 months and here's why....".



You're welcome! :grin:




JLeigh said:


> but you should  cure your salt bars for 3 to 6 months and here's why....".
> 
> I haven't received payment for, nor delivered my salt soaps - and won't.  I'll find the answer to the curing issue, but it won't be here, will  it?



Sweetie, you already received an answer about curing.



JLeigh said:


> I'll be darned but I sold each and every one  (except the one I'm using myself) even though they were "damaged". My  customer said, "I don't care!" Well, okay! So I just labeled them  "Chunky Salt Bars".



I may be wrong about what "sold" means, too. 

Ho ho ho.


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