# Making lye water in advance.



## Wilster98 (Jul 18, 2011)

I read some where that you can make lye solution up ahead of time and warm it up when ready to make soap. To me that sounds easier than trying to cool the lye solution and oils at the same time. My question is, is there a limit as to how far in advance you can make up the lye solution? Once the lye and water are mixed, does it have a shelf life?

Thanks
Willy


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## nattynoo (Jul 18, 2011)

R u talking about masterbatching your lye??
There's a ton of threads about it here in the search engine, though I don't do it myself.
I do however make my lye in single containers ahead of time. Either the day or week before. I put lids on the containers once the heat has gone.
I definitely don't reheat it though. I melt all my solid oils, put in the room temp oils, add the lye solution, then the soaping temp is pretty much spot on for me.


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## xyxoxy (Jul 18, 2011)

I make mine in advance too and I agree with not reheating it. I also mix mine 50/50 and adjust my lye concentration accordingly when it's time to make soap by adding extra liquid. As nattynoo said... search the threads for master batching and you should find plenty of discussions on the topic.

As for shelf life... I don't always get to make soap as much as I'd like and have used lye solution as old as 6 months with no issues. I keep it in a well marked HDPE laundry detergent bottle and just give it a really good shake before using.


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## IrishLass (Jul 18, 2011)

xyxoxy said:
			
		

> As for shelf life... I don't always get to make soap as much as I'd like and have used lye solution as old as 6 months with no issues. I keep it in a well marked HDPE laundry detergent bottle and just give it a really good shake before using.



Same here. I'm currently using up an 8 month old masterbatch of 50/50 solution and it still works perfectly fine. No negative issues with my soaps or anything like that. 

IrishLass


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## Wilster98 (Jul 19, 2011)

I thought it was necessary to have the temperature of the lye solution within a few degrees of the oil. Was I misinformed? If that is not the case, it would make things a lot easier.


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## HomeBrew (Jul 19, 2011)

I've never done this before. How do you calculate the amount of lye solution into total oil?


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## IrishLass (Jul 20, 2011)

Wilster98 said:
			
		

> I thought it was necessary to have the temperature of the lye solution within a few degrees of the oil. Was I misinformed? If that is not the case, it would make things a lot easier.



It all depends on your formula and what oils/fats you are using. For instance, I use a large % of hard fats in some of my formulas and so I like to keep the temp of my lye solution and melted fats in those particular formulas close enough so that I don't end up with pseudo-trace. In those batches I heat my oils/fats to 120 degreesF, and I warm my prebatched lye solution up to about  100 degreesF (I warm it up in my sink in in a hot water bath while my hard fats are melting). This balancing act works for me in keeping my melted fats from reverting back to their solid state when the cooler lye solution hits them (which kept happening when I soaped them cooler). In my 100% Castile formula, though, it doesn't matter how close or far apart the temps are at all.


IrishLass


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## IrishLass (Jul 20, 2011)

HomeBrew said:
			
		

> I've never done this before. How do you calculate the amount of lye solution into total oil?



It's very easy if you make a 50% masterbatch solution (50% water/50% lye). First, run your recipe through a good lye calculator as you would normally do, and then use this simple equation:

Total recipe amount of lye X 2 = how much of the 50% lye solution to weigh   out for your batch.   

Total recipe amount of liquid – the total recipe amount of lye = how much more liquid to add to your batch. 

Because the masterbatch is a 50% solution, the above equation will work for each and every recipe regardless of the lye solution % you type into the lye calculator.

IrishLass


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## xyxoxy (Jul 20, 2011)

That formula works perfectly IL.

Because I almost always soap with a 33% solution (2 parts liquid to 1 part lye) and because I stink at math, it can even get a bit easier.

If you think of your 50/50 solution as your lye and then swap the numbers from soapcalc (Lye amount-> Liquid amount and vice versa) then you will have a 33% solution.

So if at a 33% solution your recipe says you need 50 grams of lye and 100 grams of liquid, then what you really need is 100 grams of your 50/50 solution and 50 grams of additional liquid.

I hope that's not too confusing.


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## HappyHenrySoap (May 4, 2017)

I've seen a lot of people using HDPE containers (ie. old laundry detergent bottles) to store cooled lye water in, but what do y'all mix your lye and water in? I've heard glass is a no-no because the lye can etch the glass which could cause unexpected glass explosions. I've also heard that HDPE can't stand up to the high temperatures the lye water gets up to when you mix them together. Just curious what everyone uses.

Thanks!


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## Maevyn (May 4, 2017)

I will *only* master batch my lye now. It has saved me an unbelievable amount of time when it comes to making soap, and while it isn't difficult, I do recommend waiting until you're a little more comfortable with making it the usual way (if you're new to soapmaking). My entire reason for starting to master batch my lye was to help eliminate soda ash. I live in a fairly arid climate, and found that regardless of what I did, I ended up with atrocious soda ash on my soaps. I read somewhere that water discounting could help with that, and researching *that* led me to master batching my lye. LOL I now use a 33% solution, and have had either very little or no soda ash. 

I make 30 oz master batches at a time, and I store the COOLED lye pre-mix in these containers: 32 oz Utility Jugs. I've had absolutely no issue storing it in these. I do NOT mix it in these; I have plastic HDPE buckets that I mix in & allow to cool to room temp (without issue), then funnel-transfer to these. I make soap about every other week, and have had zero issues with the longevity of the lye solution. DO make sure to shake it up before you measure out what you need. (Well, gently shake it up. I pretty much just tilt the jug back and forth a few times.)

As far as heating it up goes, it's going to do that automatically when you add the required amount of extra water to it, per the calculations, so I heat my oils first, and when they're down to about 130 degrees, I go ahead and add the extra water to my lye pre-mix solution to bring the temperatures in line. I soap at ~110 degrees. 

Hope this helps! 

-Maevyn


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (May 4, 2017)

Seriously, what is happening this evening with necroing old posts. It's not even like this is the most recent or best thread on master batching


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## toxikon (May 4, 2017)

This would also be appropriate, Craig...


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## Maevyn (May 4, 2017)

Wow. Incredibly rude. 

Please remove my account. I don't wish to be a part of a place that I thought would be helpful, but is actually something where such hatefulness occurs. People replying to an old thread is no excuse for such behavior, and for the record, I only replied because the previous post was so recent. Your responses were unwarranted & unnecessary.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (May 4, 2017)

Maevyn said:


> Wow. Incredibly rude.
> 
> Please remove my account. I don't wish to be a part of a place that I thought would be helpful, but is actually something where such hatefulness occurs. People replying to an old thread is no excuse for such behavior, and for the record, I only replied because the previous post was so recent. Your responses were unwarranted & unnecessary.





Such hatefulness? Really? I am sorry but I think that is more than a little OTT. But it is your choice. 

The forum guidelines on necroing threads is in part because of what happened in your case - people don't notice it is old and cover roads already often travelled and in many cases referencing methods long since abandoned. 

But as I said, it's your choice if you want to miss out on the helpfulness because you take some lightheartedness as hatefulness.


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## sweetbean (May 4, 2017)

I just don't understand why commenting on an old thread is an issue. People get mad when you make a thread on a topic already covered, get mad when you reply to an old thread... the list goes on. It's pretty sad... everyone is here because they love making soap, are just starting out, etc. Why does everyone feel the need to be rude?

For what it's worth, I actually enjoyed reading this thread and haven't seen it before.


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## toxikon (May 4, 2017)

I was just joking around and I'm sure Craig was too! I've just seen a lot of necroposting today, thought it'd be alright to have a laugh about it. No offense intended.


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## HappyHenrySoap (May 4, 2017)

Thanks for the reply Maevyn, but I'm asking about what you *MIX* your lye water in. I'm not too concerned about storage, just curious what everyone uses for mixing.


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## sweetbean (May 4, 2017)

HappyHenrySoap said:


> Thanks for the reply Maevyn, but I'm asking about what you *MIX* your lye water in. I'm not too concerned about storage, just curious what everyone uses for mixing.




I mix in a SS bowl. I always use SS just for piece of mind.


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## Susie (May 4, 2017)

I mix my lye and water in a stainless steel bain marie.  But only because I have it.  Otherwise, I would just mix it in my soaping bowls.  I store my masterbatched lye water in the bottles I get my dry NaOH and KOH from ED in.  I pour it in there once it cools down.

I normally suggest people start a new thread, but I honestly did not see that this was necro'd, and I was answering a newbie to the forum.

However, we don't get made when people ask things that are already covered.  99% of what is discussed has already been covered.  We may kindly refer you to a thread that is AWESOME so you get the whole story with lots of opinions, but we don't get mad.

We don't even get mad when you necro a thread.  We may comment that it is necro'd and suggest a new thread.  We may even have a joke about necro'd threads.  Not about YOU, just necro'd threads in general.  

However, if folks are going to get their feelings hurt about this, they may want to get thicker skin if they want to stay on this forum.


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## sweetbean (May 4, 2017)

How do I delete my account?


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## DeeAnna (May 4, 2017)

sweetbean said:


> I just don't understand why commenting on an old thread is an issue....



Discouraging necro posting is not something that's peculiar to SMF. And it is discussed n the forum rules -- see http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=574424&postcount=2.  

To answer your question, Sweetbean, for this particular instance --

The person who necro-posted in this thread today asked a question, "...what do y'all mix your lye and water in?"

Why is this necro-post a less than optimum choice? 

The title of this necro'ed thread is "Making lye water in advance". If I'm not interested in yet another thread on masterbatching lye, I'm probably going to skip over this thread. That's pretty true of a lot of folks. So the necro-posted question is going to be overlooked, not because people don't care, but because they aren't being cued appropriately by the title of the thread.

If the person had asked this question in a NEW thread with an appropriate title such as "Best container for mixing lye", the question is more likely to get noticed by more people who have answers relevant to the question. Wouldn't it be nice if the question could be easily found by more people who are willing and able to give an answer, not just a few folks here and there?

What's just as important, a thread that has a relevant title is more likely to get read by new soapers who can really benefit from the answers. This particular necro-posted question happens to be one that gets asked a lot. Wouldn't it be nice if this question and its answers could be easily found by other people who might really need the answers?

I could go on, but I think these are the two key reasons why necro-posting this particular question in this particular thread was not the best idea. Understandable, yes, but not overly helpful to the question asker as well as to everyone else.

edit: To Sweetbean and Maevyn -- You're new to the party and still getting used to the social structure of the people on this forum. It's easy when a person is the "new kid on the block" to feel uncomfortable, but if you stick with us for a bit longer, I think you'll find we're actually a pretty nice group of people.


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## AsanaSoap (May 5, 2017)

I use a hard plastic cup to mix my lye solution. It has etched at the water line. If I'm going to store the solution, I put it in a glass mason jar. I've never stored it for more than a couple of days, and the jar seems fine. My plastic cup is too small for frozen cubes of milk, though, so if I'm making goat milk soap, I use a glass jar. No etching that I've noticed.


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## kchaystack (May 5, 2017)

AsanaSoap said:


> I use a hard plastic cup to mix my lye solution. It has etched at the water line. If I'm going to store the solution, I put it in a glass mason jar. I've never stored it for more than a couple of days, and the jar seems fine. My plastic cup is too small for frozen cubes of milk, though, so if I'm making goat milk soap, I use a glass jar. No etching that I've noticed.



Please do not store lye in glass.  Over time the lye will etch the glass, making it weak and prone to shatter.  Only store lye in heat resistant plastic with a 2 or 5 in the recycle symbol.


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## IrishLass (May 5, 2017)

To Maevyn and sweetbean- only Admins can delete an account, but I encourage you both to stick around.  Is our forum perfect? No, because people on the whole are not perfect, but having been a member of several soap-making forum/communities over the years, I can truly say that the group of folks that we have here is the best I've ever run into on any of them put together, and I truly hope you will decide to stay so that we can get to know each other better. I'm not sure if you have had the chance to read our "Forum Culture & Tone" stickie in the Rules/Annnouncements section of the forum yet, but it was written to help avoid/diffuse/bring understanding to situations such as this. Here is a link to it: SMF Forum Culture and Tone 


Re: necroposting: Ditto what DeeAnna said^^^. The biggest problem I see with necroposting is that the newer question gets lost in the mix, thereby resulting in a severely diminished chance of it ever being viewed/answered. Posting it in a new thread instead puts a beaming spotlight on it that will generate more views and answers. 

Case in point- I skipped right over this thread/refrained from opening it until today because I was limited on time and I saw that it had plenty of replies to it already. Unfortunately, little did I know that mostly all those replies dated back to 2011. I only opened it this morning because I had some extra time on my hands. If it were not for that, though, I don't think I would ever have opened it, because when I happened to have glanced over at its "Last Post" box, I saw that the last poster was an experienced member and I knew the OP had most assuredly been given excellent advice. 



			
				HappyHenrySoap said:
			
		

> I'm asking about what you MIX your lye water in


. 
I master-batch my lye solution all the time, and I mix it in a tall pitcher made out of PP(polypropylene) #5 plastic. 




			
				AsanaSoap said:
			
		

> I use a hard plastic cup to mix my lye solution. It has etched at the water line. If I'm going to store the solution, I put it in a glass mason jar. I've never stored it for more than a couple of days, and the jar seems fine. My plastic cup is too small for frozen cubes of milk, though, so if I'm making goat milk soap, I use a glass jar. No etching that I've noticed.


 
Ditto what kchaystack said. ^^^ Mixing/storing lye solution in glass is not recommended (you do so at your own risk). You may not notice any etching now, but just wait. Please see question #4 in post #1 of this thread: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=56833. 

And also see this article on how alkaline and acid solutions lead to corrosion of glass: http://corrosion-doctors.org/Household/Glass.htm

The reason why we so greatly discourage using glass is because we've had several soapers report that their glass/Pyrex mixing vessels shattered on them either when mixing lye in them, or when mixing soap batter in them. Better to be safe than sorry.

Not all plastics are equal when it comes to mixing/storing lye solution, and some are outright not compatible at all. I mix mine in PP#5 and store in HDPE#2. Both are lye-compatible.


IrishLass


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## DeeAnna (May 5, 2017)

Even if you don't believe NaOH etches glass, I'd like you to think about the fact that glass breaks, etching or no etching. If you go to an industrial analytical lab, you'll see that chemicals that can be stored in plastic will be in plastic containers. There are some chemicals that have to be in glass, but those glass containers are often covered with plastic mesh sleeves or other coating designed to minimize the hazards from breakage.

If a plastic container of lye is knocked off the counter and happens to split open or the lid pop off, at least the danger is limited to the lye solution itself. If the container is glass, the danger is greatly multiplied. If you think NaOH on unbroken skin is bad ... you don't want to think about what it's like to get NaOH in a cut. Even if there are no injuries, cleanup is more dangerous and difficult due to the glass shards in the NaOH solution.

When working with dangerous chemicals, a person HAS to plan for the worst case situation -- it's a foolish idea to assume accidents won't happen. Store lye solution in plastic, please!


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## cmzaha (May 5, 2017)

I mix 1-2 gallons of 50/50 at a time in #2 HDPE buckets that are set in an ice bath in the sink. They will get quite soft from the heat in not in an ice bath. I then transfer to #5 gallon containers. The transfer part is the most dangerous for me so I use a very wide funnel all is done in the sink. On days I do not feel really strong I transfer to 2 qt pitchers then into my gallon bottles. Not the safest since every transfer is a chance of a spill but it works for me. I simply do not have patience for making small batches of lye.


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## psfred (May 5, 2017)

Lye etches glass, and will absorb carbon dioxide from the air and turn into sodium (or potassium) carbonate, which will NOT make soap.  This is where "soda ash" on cold process soap comes from -- the free unreacted lye reacts with carbon dioxide instead of fatty acids.

The problem with Pyrex is mostly that since the early 80's Pyrex isn't really Pyrex borosilicate glass anymore, someone got all wound up that it would leach boron into food (which is extremely unlikely -- unless you are eating your soap or drinking neutralized lye....) and everything now labeled "pyrex" is just normal tempered glass.  Tempered glass is notorious for shattering with temperature extremes, and the etching you get from lye won't help with that as it produces "nucleation sites" for microcracks that turn into macro cracks and the container shatters.  I don't recommend glass baking dishes for this reason, either -- too many injuries from shattering baking dishes when removed from the oven and placed on something cool.

So if you do want to make up lye solution ahead of time, you need a plastic container that will not allow carbon dioxide to pass through.  That means heavy HDPE with a good air-tight seal.  It will degrade with time, so don't plan to store it for months.

Same thing for dry lye -- make sure you keep the lid sealed.  The lye will absorb both water and carbon dioxide from the air -- water makes lumps, CO2 makes carbonate.  KOH is so bad about the CO2 that it's usually sold as 90%, the balance is potassium carbonate amongst other things.


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