# Psoriasis and coconut oil allergy



## AlicesWonderhands (Dec 5, 2014)

Hello fellow soapers! 
I have a client who has psoriasis in her scalp and she is allergic to coconut oil. my first thought was to make her a salt bar for her skin, but this may not be good for the hair AND C.O. burns her skin! 

Any ideas on a shampoo bar recipie for this teenager? she has a bald spot where the psoriasis is and I would love to help her gain some self esteem and comfort back.


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## cmzaha (Dec 5, 2014)

A trip to a good dermatologist will do much more than you can. You *Cannot* treat her scalp, and I personally would not be responible. What if you make her a soap that lends to a severe life threatening allergic reaction... Yes it can happen. She needs a good doctor who can help her figure out the best treatment.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 5, 2014)

^^^ this.

I think this is a great point for all new soapers to keep in mind - some things need the expert advice like a dermatologist. 

Imagine what would happen if we didn't know she had a co allergy? Ouch. Now what else is there that we might not know? Not a risk worth taking


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## Jstar (Dec 5, 2014)

Going to have to agree with the others here..we can't make medical claims on our soap. Altho homemade soap can help alleviate some issues, {like dryness etc} it's not wise to attempt to create a product for those suffering from actual allergies...and if she is allergic to CO, she may have other unknown allergies that maybe even 'she' isn't aware of..best to let a Dr advise her on what she can and cannot use, and 'then' go from there.


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## Susie (Dec 5, 2014)

I can't help you on the psoriasis, as only a physician can treat that(and even then it is trial and error at best).  I can tell you that you will have to make a lot of batches without CO, then give her small bars to see what bothers her the least.  This will not be a simple process(vast understatement), and I admire you for trying to help a friend. 

If it were me, I would begin looking at high lard or tallow soaps as you will need something that will yield a harder bar.  Unless you have 6+ months to allow Castile soap to cure.  No colors or scents.  Just soap until you know what is safe for her.  

But my biggest concern, by far, is that CO allergies sometimes go hand-in-hand with other allergies and you could possibly trigger one of those.  If it were me, I would not make soap for her without a list of known allergens from an allergy specialist that has done a full battery of allergy testing in the last 3-6 months.  I do understand you are trying to help her, but you are leaving yourself open to be sued if she has a reaction.


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## boyago (Dec 6, 2014)

AlicesWonderhands said:


> Hello fellow soapers!
> I have a client who has psoriasis in her scalp and she is allergic to coconut oil. my first thought was to make her a salt bar for her skin, but this may not be good for the hair AND C.O. burns her skin!
> 
> Any ideas on a shampoo bar recipie for this teenager? she has a bald spot where the psoriasis is and I would love to help her gain some self esteem and comfort back.



Your friend probably already has a dermatologist, I think you should recruit your friend as an agent to grill the Dr on all the soaping snake oil cures for skin abnormalities.  Pine tar, neem oil, EOs for acne ect. and have her report back here with the goods.
On the more serious end of this It would be really nice of you to tell her to let her doctor know that she has a soapmaker that would be willing to make her custom soaps and what suggestions do they have in the way of ingredients.


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## sassanellat (Dec 6, 2014)

There is a fantastic shampoo for people with psoriasis called Nizoral, which you can get a prescription for from your doctor/dermatologist. It is pretty stripping, but you only need to use it occasionally, and you can use a good conditioner after. It really works well for moderate to severe psoriasis.


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## Susie (Dec 6, 2014)

Here is the list of ingredients for Nizoral Shampoo:

Nizoral Shampoo Description

NIZORAL® (ketoconazole) 2% Shampoo is a red-orange liquid for topical application, containing the broad spectrum synthetic antifungal agent ketoconazole in a concentration of 2% in an aqueous suspension. It also contains: coconut fatty acid diethanolamide, disodium monolauryl ether sulfosuccinate, F.D.&C. Red No. 40, hydrochloric acid, imidurea, laurdimonium hydrolyzed animal collagen, macrogol 120 methyl glucose dioleate, perfume bouquet, sodium chloride, sodium hydroxide, sodium lauryl ether sulfate, and purified water.

Please note that it contains "cococnut fatty acid diethanolamide".  I would strongly suggest that you not tell your friend about this as it does contain coconut ingredients.  Which goes to show you why you should never take medical advice from people on a soaping forum.(And why people on a soaping forum without a medical license should never give medical advice.}


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## Jstar (Dec 6, 2014)

Susie said:


> Here is the list of ingredients for Nizoral Shampoo:
> 
> Nizoral Shampoo Description
> 
> ...



Amen sister


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## girlishcharm2004 (Dec 6, 2014)

Sodium lauryl ether sulfate is also derived from coconuts. I guess it would depend on how specific the allergy is.


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## Susie (Dec 6, 2014)

I did not know that, but I will file it away.

If you have a "client", why are you posting questions in the beginner's forum?


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## sassanellat (Dec 8, 2014)

girlishcharm2004 said:


> Sodium lauryl ether sulfate is also derived from coconuts. I guess it would depend on how specific the allergy is.


 
Exactly. Allergies are usually to proteins, and although it's possible to be allergic to the component listed, it's highly unlikely due to the size, being a lipid, being chemically modified, etc.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 8, 2014)

Unlikely, but possible - if they have a coconut allergy then it is possible that they could react to a product containing coconut. Which leads me to..........

......//This is a soaping forum, not a 'treating psoriasis' forum. Please leave all advice for helping the psoriasis at home.


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## Susie (Dec 8, 2014)

Susie said:


> I can't help you on the psoriasis, as only a physician can treat that(and even then it is trial and error at best).
> 
> But my biggest concern, by far, is that CO allergies sometimes go hand-in-hand with other allergies and you could possibly trigger one of those.  If it were me, I would not make soap for her without a list of known allergens from an allergy specialist that has done a full battery of allergy testing in the last 3-6 months.  I do understand you are trying to help her, but you are leaving yourself open to be sued if she has a reaction.



I guess someone missed this statement.(Not you, Craig.)

Also, I never said Nizoral was a bad product.  Just that it contains something that the "client" has already said she is allergic to.  Did you not read the list of ingredients before giving medical advice without a license?


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## AlicesWonderhands (Dec 8, 2014)

1. this "client" is as good as my own daughter, there is a reason she came to me. 
2. my question was about soap making, not doctors or other products.
3. "asking your doctor" is one of the biggest scams of the century. the man in his white coat, who receives kick backs from the prescriptionous poisons he prescribes no longer has our trust here in the mountains. its a cop out to keep from getting sued. this is not an issue in my case. i simply want to know how I can make a shampoo bar with out coconut oil and if any of you have wisdom on oils that help psoriasis.


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## cmzaha (Dec 8, 2014)

AlicesWonderhands said:


> 1. this "client" is as good as my own daughter, there is a reason she came to me.
> 2. my question was about soap making, not doctors or other products.
> 3. "asking your doctor" is one of the biggest scams of the century. the man in his white coat, who receives kick backs from the prescriptionous poisons he prescribes no longer has our trust here in the mountains. its a cop out to keep from getting sued. this is not an issue in my case. i simply want to know how I can make a shampoo bar with out coconut oil and if any of you have wisdom on oils that help psoriasis.


You already got snotty with me on another thread, but here I go again... I really do not think anyone is going to suggest any oils, additives etc to use in the soap, so just do a lot of research and hopefully you do not hit on something else she is severly allergic to. I without a doctor I would have died several yrs ago of anaphylactic shock and this was something I have used for many years. You want to take the risk and keep the treatment in the mountains go for it, just do not ask us to contribute.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 8, 2014)

Take a deep breath, folks. It's time to let things mellow a bit, please.


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## Dahila (Dec 8, 2014)

cmzaha said:
			
		

> without a doctor I would have died several yrs ago of anaphylactic shock and this was something I have used for many years.


Same here, I have severe allergies to medication (ASA) and honey bee sting. I would not survive if it was not the help from docs


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## Lindy (Dec 8, 2014)

Tallow is wonderful for shampoo bars.


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## Susie (Dec 8, 2014)

As is lard.


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## xoticsoaps (Dec 8, 2014)

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but babassu oil is a great substitute for coconut oil.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 9, 2014)

Alice, think of it from our position - if I tell you that oil x should be okay, you use it and then your client/quasi daughter has a terrible reaction to it then at the very least I feel terrible for having suggested it. At worst, YOU resent me for having suggested it and decide to sue. 

That's why a lot of people are stepping away and saying 'hey, get some experts in'

A doctor is not just a gp. Consult a doctor can also mean go to a allergist and she what she is and isn't allergic to. 

If the responses don't become more civil I think it'll have to be closed, ladies and gents.


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## girlishcharm2004 (Dec 9, 2014)

Someone had mentioned, "let the doctor be responsible."  I would like to point out that the doctor will _never _be responsible.  The doctor isn't the one who has to live the rest of their life with whatever the consequences are -- the client will.

Regardless of whom offers the solution to this client, the client makes the ultimate decision if she's willing to take the risk and live with the consequence.  It's part of taking responsibility for our own actions.  There is nothing inherently wrong with offering advice or a solution.

That is... I'm assuming the original poster isn't strapping this young girl down and washing her hair by force.


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## JustBeachy (Dec 9, 2014)

girlishcharm2004 said:


> Someone had mentioned, "let the doctor be responsible."  I would like to point out that the doctor will _never _be responsible.  The doctor isn't the one who has to live the rest of their life with whatever the consequences are -- the client will.
> 
> Regardless of whom offers the solution to this client, the client makes the ultimate decision if she's willing to take the risk and live with the consequence.  It's part of taking responsibility for our own actions.  There is nothing inherently wrong with offering advice or a solution.
> 
> That is... I'm assuming the original poster isn't strapping this young girl down and washing her hair by force.



Well, in theory that is true, the patient has the last word. Yet if the doctors never had to take responsibility there would be no need for malpractice insurance.

My personal take, is I'd rather the Doc's MP insurance handle the payout rather than my stock portfolio.  I'm just gonna refrain from offering any medical advice.  Not saying you're wrong.  Just my opinion. 

BTW, I hate going to the doc for anything. My sister in law is a doctor and she's always giving me grief for not going in to have things checked. I always tell her if it doesn't get better in the next couple of years, I'll give you a call.   So I'm not really that big on docs either.  But sometimes, it's just prudent.


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## girlishcharm2004 (Dec 9, 2014)

JustBeachy said:


> Well, in theory that is true, the patient has the last word. Yet if the doctors never had to take responsibility there would be no need for malpractice insurance.



Well, responsibility for malpractice is a little different, but I see where you're going with that.  However, I do stand firm that it's the client who has to live with the consequences, and it would be wise of her take such responsibility.



JustBeachy said:


> My personal take, is I'd rather the Doc's MP insurance handle the payout rather than my stock portfolio.  I'm just gonna refrain from offering any medical advice.  Not saying you're wrong.  Just my opinion.



You cannot be sued for the advice you give.  You can give all the advice you want.  You can't be sued if someone foolishly tried any of it.

http://www.cklplawfirm.com/blog/2014/05/4-basic-parts-of-a-medical-malpractice-claim.shtml



JustBeachy said:


> BTW, I hate going to the doc for anything. My sister in law is a doctor and she's always giving me grief for not going in to have things checked. I always tell her if it doesn't get better in the next couple of years, I'll give you a call.   So I'm not really that big on docs either.  But sometimes, it's just prudent.



 My doctor loves me for that very reason.  She told me she knows it's absolutely serious if I make an appointment.  

http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## new12soap (Dec 9, 2014)

girlishcharm2004 said:


> You cannot be sued for the advice you give.  You can give all the advice you want.  You can't be sued if someone foolishly tried any of it.
> 
> http://www.cklplawfirm.com/blog/2014/05/4-basic-parts-of-a-medical-malpractice-claim.shtml




Yes, you can. That link specifically applies to a medical malpractice claim. You cannot sue a doctor for medical malpractice because of something you read on the internet, but you can certainly sue someone for offering medical advice without a license to practice medicine.

Whether the claim went anywhere or not, you would still have to hire an attorney and go through all the time and stress and expense to get it dismissed. Not worth it, and in most places if you really were offering medical advice without a license to practice, and that advice caused harm to someone, that can actually result in criminal charges.

If I told you my doctor said such-and-such, and you did it and it didn't work and you were harmed by it, you could not sue my doctor. If I said you should do such-and-such, and it didn't work at best or harmed someone at worst, you could sue ME. Anyone can file a lawsuit at any time for pretty much anything. Frivolous? Sure, but that doesn't stop me from having to be the one to deal with it.


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## JustBeachy (Dec 9, 2014)

girlishcharm2004 said:


> You cannot be sued for the advice you give. You can give all the advice you want. You can't be sued if someone foolishly tried any of it.
> 
> http://www.cklplawfirm.com/blog/2014/05/4-basic-parts-of-a-medical-malpractice-claim.shtml
> 
> My doctor loves me for that very reason. She told me she knows it's absolutely serious if I make an appointment.



Oh I agree it would be next to impossible to lose a lawsuit, based on just giving someone advice. In today's litigious society,however, frivolous lawsuits get filed everyday. I'd still have to pay my attorney to get them laughed out of court. I can understand peoples decision to err on the side of caution. 

I'm glad to see I'm not the only hard headed "ah, it'll go away" person out there. 

Seems like we were thinking and typing alike there new12soap. haha


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## girlishcharm2004 (Dec 9, 2014)

new12soap said:


> Yes, you can. That link specifically applies to a medical malpractice claim. You cannot sue a doctor for medical malpractice because of something you read on the internet, but you can certainly sue someone for offering medical advice without a license to practice medicine.



I must have misread that.  I didn't perceive it to mean that a person was randomly choosing a doctor to sue because of the information they read on the internet, but rather they were suing the non-doctor for free advice.

Yes, there are a lot of frivolous lawsuits out there!  Anyone can take out a proceeding for anything.  However, it comes back to the 4 elements of negligence.


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## Susie (Dec 9, 2014)

I promised myself I would stay out of this forum, but I have to correct you on one point.

I have a state issued license to be a Registered Nurse.  This comes with a specific set of rules of what I can and can't do.  One of those things is that I can't practice medicine without a license.  (And there are several people in this forum with the same or similar restrictions.)  Telling someone what to do for a medical condition(other than "go see a doctor") is practicing medicine without a license.


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## JustBeachy (Dec 9, 2014)

I have an idea. Why don't we all agree there are points for both positions. Everyone choose what's right for them and agree that we just follow our own ideals/opinions and accept that we don't have to agree on this point. It's a topic that's not going to be agreed upon, no matter how much we discuss it, so it's probably better that we don't discuss it. 

Let's talk about soap!!


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## marilynmac (Dec 9, 2014)

There are plenty of people on the internet eager to give free medical advice, and even sell you stuff!  This isn't one of those places, this is about making soap.


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## jblaney (Dec 10, 2014)

Both of my parents have psoriasis and both have it on their scalp.   I told my Mom about Free and Clear Shampoo and Conditioner since it's what I use.   It has helped them both immensely.   I use it since any other shampoo and conditioner made my face break out.   I tried for 15 years to figure out what it was.   Changed everything before trying that and that's all I use now.   Not sure if it has coconut oil in it, but here are the ingredients below.   They sell it on Amazon and for $20 you can get one of each.  


Ingredients
Purified Water, Cetearyl Alcohol, Dicetyldimonium Chloride, Propylene Glycol, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Ceteareth 20, Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E), Potassium Sorbate, Panthenol, Cirtric Acid


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