# Natural Emulsifier



## Joseph (Oct 6, 2014)

Hello I'm new to this area and trying to make body scrub from natural ingredient that safe to use for my self and family.
Formula for emulsifying body scrub always containing emulsifier such as e-wax or pola-wax, are there any natural emulsifier that we can use to make a creamy body scrub?
thanks in advance


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## Joseph (Oct 6, 2014)

oh I forgot, I also tried use my bar soap as an emulsifier, but this was a bad idea, my soap would dissolve in the oil, even I have use heat and hand blender for a long time :???:


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## Meganmischke (Oct 6, 2014)

Lecithin is a natural emulsifier but I doubt the hlb would be compatible with what you are trying to accomplish.  I believe there are some naturally derived ewaxs available.  Check out www.swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com for tons of info


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## lsg (Oct 7, 2014)

You can use melted M&P soap as an emulsifier.  I have a recipe for an emulsified salt scrub that uses melted M&P soap, Epsom salt and just a little almond oil.


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## Joseph (Oct 8, 2014)

thank you... i read on swtichcraftmonkey many used polawax or emulsifying wax, are this wax synthetic or natural?


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## DeeAnna (Oct 8, 2014)

What do you mean by "natural" vs "synthetic", Joseph? There is no legal definition of these words, so everyone has their own opinions. For the record, even lecithin, which usually comes from soybeans, is processed in a chemical plant. Not to mention the GMO issue with most soybeans, at least in the US. 

On a related note: Emulsified scrubs and lotions -- any product that contains a water phase AND an oil phase -- also requires a preservative for safety, unless you are the sort of person who will willingly eat homemade mayonnaise (also an emulsion) after letting it sit on your kitchen counter for a week.

If you are determined to use ingredients that are processed as little as possible, then making lotions and emulsified products is not realistic. Stick with salves, lotion bars, balms, and other oil-based products. They do not require emulsifiers and preservatives.


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## Susie (Oct 8, 2014)

Joseph said:


> oh I forgot, I also tried use my bar soap as an emulsifier, but this was a bad idea, my soap would dissolve in the oil, even I have use heat and hand blender for a long time :???:



Does this mean that the soap would NOT dissolve in the oil?


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## LBussy (Oct 8, 2014)

I love the "natural" argument,  Never gets old really.


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## lsg (Oct 8, 2014)

Joseph, just because something is labeled "natural"  that does not necessarily mean it is good for you.  If you think about it our food is made up of chemical elements. http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/faqs/faqchemicalsinfood.htm

 Read Swiftcraftymonkey's take on chemicals vs. natural.  
http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/search?q=natural


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## steliyana (Oct 17, 2014)

Mayonnaise has eggs in it which go off much faster that water and oil. Water on its own and oil on its own last for quite a while if they are not contaminated with germs. Not sure how the emulsification changes their properties???But I will keep some of mine in the fridge and use a spatula so I don't bring germs in it. But I think we cannot expect a a very long shelf life from fully natural products


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## DeeAnna (Oct 17, 2014)

"...Water on its own and oil on its own last for quite a while if they are not contaminated with germs...."

Certainly! By definition, "not contaminated with germs" means you're talking about a sterile ingredients and sterile processing and packaging. 

Most people use a sanitary method to make B&B products -- working as clean as possible but definitely not sterile. Preservative ensures long-term sanitary conditions.

Emulsification -- whether you're making mayo or hand lotion -- intimately mixes the water, oil, and other ingredients, as well as incorporating microbes intimately into the mix. This greatly increases the chance of microbial growth.


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## steliyana (Oct 17, 2014)

I see your point


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## steliyana (Oct 17, 2014)

I followed her recipe 
http://www.rootsimple.com/2011/11/the-whip-a-homemade-moisturizer-how-to-from-making-it/
and I like the idea of treating my cosmetics the way I treat food. I believe many of the ingredients in our food like preservatives and coloring, are not good for us either!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 17, 2014)

While I consume a lot of food, I don't tend to eat my BB products.  So that leaves absorbtion as the method by which my Optiphen will enter my body.  At the percentages we work with, that is a very small amount of preservative on my skin at any given time.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I'd rather spread that on me than some of the bad mould cultures


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## DeeAnna (Oct 17, 2014)

http://www.rootsimple.com/2011/11/the-whip-a-homemade-moisturizer-how-to-from-making-it/

She gives some suggestions for keeping this product reasonably safe. Good for her. Most bloggers really don't have a clue, so it is good to see someone giving a more balanced viewpoint.

She is using only beeswax in this recipe. Beeswax is NOT an emulsifier; it is simply a mechanical thickener. There is nothing to keep this "lotion" from separating back into its water-soluble and oil soluble parts. I had the displeasure of seeing a local maker's beeswax-thickened, no-preservative "lotion" for sale in a local store recently. The product was an unappetizing weepy mess. Ugh.

She wrote: "...What makes [the best batches] work seems to be a magical combination of temperature, timing and the blessings of the lotion fairies. You may find a little water sitting in the jar now and then. This is not unusual, certainly not a sign of failure. Just pour it off. In the not so good batches the amount of water that appears is epic as it comes unbound from the oil day by day. Just pour it off. The texture will be off, but the stuff still works, and is fine to use. It’s just not as nice. Try again. You’ll get the hang of it...."

Um..... :thumbdown:


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## steliyana (Oct 17, 2014)

Anyway ladies...it is just a different point of view i mean about keeping your creams in a cool place, using them while fresh, small batches, etc
What about grape seed extract?? Does it do the job as a preservative against mould, bacteria?
And what keeps the emulsification together if beeswax doesn't work. Mine ( the above mentioned recipe) also had water but apart from that is was great... At least to me


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## steliyana (Oct 17, 2014)

What about alcohol???I just read an article by someone (lost the link among the many) who produces creams for sale and has a background in microbiology and has done extensive testing. He says that alcohol up to 16% in his facial creams does the job against everything and noone has ever complained from dry skin even using his products around their eyes. Someone had commented that the downsides are cost and the smell. Has anyone used alcohol as a preservative? Can you cover up the smell with EO? Also what about propolis extracted in alcohol, both having great properties? Just an idea?


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## steliyana (Oct 17, 2014)

I found the article 
http://chemistscorner.com/how-to-prevent-contamination-in-cosmetic-products/ 
There is also Liliana ( one of the people commenting ) who says they have a patent on rosemary preservative, for food though. But she also mentions olive leaves. I wander if that can go in a cream. I have used olive leaf extract against candida and after my thorough research it seemed to be the best thing. Now candida is a fungus. One can buy olive leaf powder which is not as concentrated but there is also the extract which is also a powder and is more powerful. So you will need to use less. It will give a green coloring I presume i will see if I can find articles about people using it as a preservative in their cosmetics.


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## steliyana (Oct 17, 2014)

I have gone off a bit from the topic which was about emulsification, apology. Should transfer that to the preservatives topic.


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## Joseph (Oct 22, 2014)

thank you now i know better


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## shunt2011 (Oct 22, 2014)

steliyana said:


> Anyway ladies...it is just a different point of view i mean about keeping your creams in a cool place, using them while fresh, small batches, etc
> What about grape seed extract?? Does it do the job as a preservative against mould, bacteria?
> And what keeps the emulsification together if beeswax doesn't work. Mine ( the above mentioned recipe) also had water but apart from that is was great... At least to me


 
GSE is an antioxidant not a preservative. Can extend the shelf life of oils.  I add GSE or ROE to my oils when I receive them.  I would not keep anything unpreserved more than 2-3 days and I certainly wouldn't sell it to anyone even with a warning on the label.  Not worth the risk personally..


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## DeeAnna (Oct 22, 2014)

"...Mine ( the above mentioned recipe) also had water but apart from that is was great..."

Water weeping out of a lotion I've made would be a real failure in my book. I want my lotions to remain stable (and sanitary) for a reasonable length of time. It makes no sense to me to expect the "lotion fairies" and wishful thinking to keep my lotion nice.

Let's look at an example from a user's point of view. I want a light spreadable lotion to put on my legs and arms after showering. I formulate my recipe to have a 75% water phase and 25% oil phase, but I don't use an emulsifier -- just thickeners. The water phase in my lotion starts to weep out, and I just "pour it off" as the blogger suggests. Eventually my lotion may end up being 65% water phase and 35% oil phase. That is getting closer to a cream, and creams are hard to spread evenly on large portions of skin. That would be soooo not what I wanted in this lotion. That would be unacceptable to me, even if I didn't mind the awkward issue of tending to a weepy lotion. Ugh. I don't care to use a product like that and I certainly would never give or sell it to anyone else.


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## dreadhead (Oct 27, 2014)

Olivem is the most natural I've found and I love it. Have been using it almost a year in several products with good results.


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## steliyana (Dec 26, 2014)

I have read that soap can act as an emulsifier, any thoughts on that?? The article just mentions it but doesn't elaborate on it.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 26, 2014)

steliyana said:


> I have read that soap can act as an emulsifier, any thoughts on that?? The article just mentions it but doesn't elaborate on it.



Soap IS an emulsifier, in that it combines with both oil and water (which is how it cleans us) but I think that the binding happens at a ratio of 1:1:1 oil:soap:water molecules, which might be part of the reason why it isn't used in lotions.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 26, 2014)

Yes, soap is an emulsifier within its limits. That's how soap can clean greasy clothes or dishes.


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## steliyana (Dec 27, 2014)

That's what I thought, but the article mentioned it as a something which can be used in creams and lotions which left me puzzled!

Reading back now I see that Isg has mentioned melted M&P soap for a bath melt. Can I actually use any of my CP soap for an emulsifier in a lotion? What are the limits DeeAnna? Also I have read on a facebook soap group some ladies using soy/ sunflower lecithin +xanthan or guar as emulsifiers. I can post the recipe/ ratio if someone is interested.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 27, 2014)

There have been a number of websites and articles mentioned in this thread. You know what article or website you're talking about, but I honestly don't have a clue. Would you please just post a quote and a link to the info? That would be very helpful.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 27, 2014)

"...melted M&P soap for a bath melt. Can I actually use any of my CP soap for an emulsifier in a lotion?..."

I really don't think you can compare the two. M&P in a bath melt or scrub isn't doing the same job as an emulsifier in a liquid lotion. In a finished bath melt (or scrub) the M&P is not acting as an emulsifier. It is more of a filler that allows the bath melt to be a solid object. After the whole thing is dissolved in water, then, sure, the M&P does emulsify the oils with the water. But at that point, it's not a bath melt (or scrub) anymore -- it's a mixture of a lot of water with a bit of added oil and soap.

I think you're just going to have to try soap-as-emulsifier-in-lotion for yourself. I don't know the answer. 

What I do know is I don't have much interest in trying the idea myself. It might it work. It might also seem that lye soap is more "natural" than a commercial emulsifier. The problem is the high pH of a lye soap is not something I want to add to a leave-on skin lotion. I want a lotion to soothe the skin, not irritate it. Soap as a wash-off product is one thing ... soap as a leave-on product is quite another.


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## steliyana (Dec 27, 2014)

lsg said:


> You can use melted M&P soap as an emulsifier.  I have a recipe for an emulsified salt scrub that uses melted M&P soap, Epsom salt and just a little almond oil.




I meant her post. Is this what you asked me for. The other website where I read it hasn't been mentioned in this group, cannot find it now but it doesn't give any info anyway, it just mentions it.



lsg said:


> You can use melted M&P soap as an emulsifier.  I have a recipe for an emulsified salt scrub that uses melted M&P soap, Epsom salt and just a little almond oil.




This is what I read here referring soap.

It doesn't let me quote for some reason but there is no actual link. The forum member Isg says that she has a recipe with melted m&p soap ina bath melt, that's all.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 27, 2014)

As far as lecithin as emulsifier, yes, it can work but only in combination with a co-emulsifier. If you use lecithin only, the emulsion will not be reliably stable.

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2013/02/question-how-to-use-lecithin-as.html
http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2013/11/weekend-wonderings-sucragel-lecithin.html

Xanthan gum or guar gum are not emulsifiers, meaning they do not do anything to help water and oil form a stable mixture. These gums can only provide thickening, so they are similar to beeswax, cetyl alcohol, or stearic acid.

***

That's fine -- thanks for the info. If all you are referring to is lsg's comment about M&P in bath melts, I think I've given you my best answer. 

What you said was, "...the article mentioned it as a something which can be used in creams and lotions..."

There was nothing about this in lsg's post about this specific issue, so this phrase was really confusing me -- I didn't know where this thought was coming from.


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## steliyana (Dec 27, 2014)

I can't find that article that I came across yesterday but it doesn't give any additional info anyway, it just mentions it. Thank you for your answers and links!


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## DeeAnna (Dec 27, 2014)

"...I can't find that article that I came across yesterday..."

Oh, gosh, I hate it when that happens to me!  :Kitten Love:

nyway, I hope what I shared is a little bit useful to you....


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## jnl (Jan 31, 2015)

i would not recommend ever using xantham gum in any body product.  it is slimy as hell.  really nasty stuff.  i use it in gluten-free baking.  i have seen some body product recipes that have it, and it makes me shudder.  just washing a spec of powder off my hands is like washing a handful of snot off.


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