# Bramble Berry gripe



## Kittish (Jan 12, 2018)

I recently placed an order with Bramble Berry, and the lanolin I got clearly has fragrance in it. A sort of baby powder floral. Not even close to anything that might be considered the natural odor of lanolin (especially not when I have another jar from another supplier that doesn't smell even remotely perfumed). Not something I can use, with my allergy to artificial fragrance. A rep replied to my complaint, stating that their lanolin has no fragrance in it, and that she would make a 'one time exception' to their policy of not allowing returns on oils and waxes, but I'd have to pay to ship it back. To my way of thinking, the product is either misrepresented or contaminated (and thus defective), and requiring me to pay to return it is not ok. I'm thinking I'll probably take the easier route, and simply not buy from Bramble Berry again.


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## earlene (Jan 12, 2018)

Well, that's disappointing.  I have used lanolin most of my life and never once has it ever smelled like baby powder or floral.  However, I have read about a process for deodorizing and bleaching lanolin.  By 'ultra-refined' I wonder if that's another word for 'chemical processes used to deodorize' the lanolin.  Processes such as those could certainly leave behind their own fragrance.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jan 13, 2018)

Hmmm. That's weird. It was some time ago, but I had one item in my order that was unacceptable. They credited my account but I didn't have to return it. I wish I could remember the whole story, but I was happy with the outcome. If I were you, I would give it another try and be sure to talk to someone higher up if need be. To simply stop shopping there, from my perspective, you're only punishing yourself, not them.


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## Saponificarian (Jan 13, 2018)

Sorry about your experience but I love Brambleberry. I have had only one issue with them recently when I got a wrong FO. I made a batch with both and sent them the pix with disclouration or lack of and they sent me a refund. I can’t imagine not shopping at B.B. They have the Best FOs and at great prices too. Everything else I can get cheaper somewhere but their FOs, the best amongst the 6 fragrance suppliers I sampled


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## Kittish (Jan 13, 2018)

> Our Lanolin does not have any added fragrance, though it does have a pretty distinct natural smell. The ingredients in the Lanolin are: Lanolin.
> 
> Though if you would like to return it you are more than welcome to. We don't normally take returns on waxes / oils but I would be happy to make an exception in this case.
> 
> ...



That's the initial response to my complaint. Their return policy does NOT address defective products, only incorrect items and items damaged in transit. I asked in my reply what their policy is regarding defective items.

I'm waiting to see what the response is, but the tone the rep took in her initial reply... that's mostly what's prompted my ire. And, alas, it's hard to take a pic of fragrance where no fragrance should be, and I really am unwilling to pay shipping AGAIN to send it back to them. The error is on THEIR end, whether it's incorrectly labeled product slipping through or contamination that occurred while my order was being pulled (or at any other point, really before it was shipped out).

I wouldn't be hurting myself much buying the oils and EOs I've gotten from them elsewhere. There are multiple other sources for each of them.


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## SaltedFig (Jan 13, 2018)

Surely they could skip the whole problem definition step by taking another jar from the same batch and smelling it?

Kinda resolves the question of scent without any postage cost to anyone.

I wonder where it was made? Anyways, good luck!



Kittish said:


> And, alas, it's hard to take a pic of fragrance where no fragrance should be


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## Cellador (Jan 13, 2018)

Funny...while I like many of Brambleberry's FOs, I always seem to get a whiff of note that is the same in each of them. It's kind of like a powdery-floral-vanilla. While it's not bad, I had wondered if they used it as a base for their FOs or if they had one scent that was so pervasive, it transferred to everything else. When I think of BB, I can almost smell that scent- I totally associate it with them.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jan 13, 2018)

Cellador said:


> When I think of BB, I can almost smell that scent- I totally associate it with them.


I thought it was just me, but I know exactly what you're talking about. Weird. I don't order FOs from BB often, but when I do, I focus on the Cybilla line. Cybilla's fragrances were tops when I first started soaping in 2004. I was happy when BB picked up her scents when she retired.


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## SunRiseArts (Jan 14, 2018)

They usually have really good customer service.  I would call and ask for a supervisor Kittish.  Explain your allergies, and how serious it could be to your health.


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## Kittish (Jan 15, 2018)

So Bramble Berry sent me a prepaid shipping label this morning, with no comment beyond "we'll get your refund processed as soon as we get the product back." I wonder if they did check the rest of their stock and found that I was right about it having fragrance added? I've opened up and sniffed at this container several times over the weekend, just in case it was lingering scent just in the air or something, but it hasn't gotten any fainter, and I'm also not the only person who's been able to smell it. Going to box this back up and ship it back either today or tomorrow.


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## toxikon (Jan 15, 2018)

Cellador said:


> Funny...while I like many of Brambleberry's FOs, I always seem to get a whiff of note that is the same in each of them. It's kind of like a powdery-floral-vanilla. While it's not bad, I had wondered if they used it as a base for their FOs or if they had one scent that was so pervasive, it transferred to everything else. When I think of BB, I can almost smell that scent- I totally associate it with them.



That was my first thought. Perhaps they store their lanolin close to some very strong fragrance oils, and that scent permeated the lanolin.


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## earlene (Jan 15, 2018)

Well, today is a holiday, so the post offices are probably closed.  Glad you got that shipping label.


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## SunRiseArts (Jan 15, 2018)

Kittish, maybe they read this form?  :shock:

Glad it got solved for you.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jan 16, 2018)

Kittish said:


> So Bramble Berry sent me a prepaid shipping label this morning, with no comment beyond "we'll get your refund processed as soon as we get the product back."



YAY! Good for them! :clap::clap::clap:


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## shunt2011 (Jan 16, 2018)

I'm glad they came around.  CS is so important.   I don't order much from them due to the long time it takes to get to me.


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## MaryWaldman (Jan 16, 2018)

I'm glad they sent you a pre-paid shipping label, that was the right thing to do.

I order regularly from Brambleberry but have noticed a dramatic change, for the worse, in their shipping. My last order, delivered in early December, was supposed to include a 15 oz bottle of Lavender EO 40/42. It arrived in an unmarked bottle - there was a label on it, but it was blank. It did smell like lavender EO, though. The box also arrived with no packing slip or invoice.

The Brambleberry website clearly states that the Lavender 40/42 flashpoint is 150 degrees, and it has an MSDS. Shipping a product like this without a label tells me there's serious issues in their warehouse. Another telling sign is they no longer include the little 'checked by' labels on the boxes.

When I contacted Brambleberry customer service they blew it off, and suggested that the product had leaked and erased the label information. No, I looked at it under a magnifier, and there was no ink or impression anywhere on that label. 

I requested a pre-paid return label so they could deal with it, but instead all they offered was to send me another label because they were 'super sure' it was Lavender 40/42. Also 'a lot of our packages ship without invoices or packing slips. We figure you can print them off yourself.' 

I run a tight shop. My supplies have labels, and I write purchase, open, and expiration dates on them. I'm not interested in doing business with suppliers who can't get the basics right. Brambleberry used to be a trusted supplier that I would pay a bit extra to use, but I'm steering clear from now on.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 16, 2018)

Before I launch into what I really want to say, I want to state for the record that I always send a receipt or packing slip with the orders I ship from my small business. I might send 1 item .. or I might send 10,000 items. They all ship with a packing slip or receipt.

I read the occasional article on how to pack and ship more efficiently, and I know there is a growing school of thought that says a printed receipt/pack slip is no longer necessary. The slip is viewed as a waste of natural resources (paper and ink) as well as an overhead cost that can be pruned to make the business more cost effective. We're talking about the labor cost to pay employees to print and handle the paperwork as well as the material costs for the paper and printer supplies.

In addition to that, larger businesses are going to all-electronic order handling and shipping. The person packing an order might be ticking off the items on a touch screen rather than on a paper packing slip, so for the shipper, the piece of paper is no longer needed for them to function properly.

There is no documentation included in orders I receive from Amazon and I don't always get receipts in small orders from some sellers on Etsy, so it's not just BB who is taking this approach.

I guess I can kind of see the logic for orders shipped to a retail customer. Just whip out one's trusty smart phone, find the receipt, and verify that all items were received. 

It does not make nearly as much sense for orders shipped to a business. The unpacking space of the receiving business might not have easy access to electronic receipts to view while unpacking. In my business, I have to traipse to my office, print the order, traipse back to the shop, and unpack. Perhaps someday we will all carry smart phones or tablets so we can quickly access electronic records, but that's not a universal practice at the moment.

I received an order from The Sage yesterday. The items in the order were nicely protected and impeccably packed. And there was a neatly folded packing slip right on top of the merchandise.


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## toxikon (Jan 16, 2018)

I'm annoyed that Amazon and most other online vendors don't provide physical packing slips/invoices anymore. I live on the US/Canada border and often cross the border into the US to pick up packages (selection, pricing and shipping is way better on Amazon US, even accounting for exchange rate!). The border guards sometimes ask for receipts for your packages, so I have to manually print off my invoices before I pick up my packages... which can be a big pain in the butt if I've forgotten to print them and I'm halfway across the bridge.


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## SunRiseArts (Jan 17, 2018)

This is such an interesting conversation.  And I think all sides are partially right.

I am one of those always trying to do the right thing by the planet, and to me less paper is always a plus.  But items need to be properly labeled, always.


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## earlene (Jan 17, 2018)

I prefer a packing slip myself.  I can check my computer, or even my tablet, should I need to, but really prefer a packing slip in or on the box with my product. Remember those clear pockets on the surface of the box for packing slips?  Forget about checking for a receipt on a smart phone if you have my old eyes and a small phone!  As far as printing out the receipt to check against my order, I don't do that myself.  In the old days I printed everything, but I rarely print superfluous stuff these days; it's just a waste of resources, one being my time.

I know there are some folks who hang out on forums like us who don't understand that not everyone has a computer, a tablet, a smart phone, and a printer, and now even 3D printers.  Too many people think that is the norm for the average person.  It's really not!  Why some people I know don't have printers, but they still order stuff online.  And some people I know don't have access to cell service or even internet where they live because it's just not available in their remote locations.  It's a fact, even in California.  So if they want to use the internet or even make a phone call, they have to leave home in search of cell service or a library for internet service.  Now, they can order stuff from Amazon and so forth, but they really would benefit from a packing slip.  If you use public wifi for your internet access, printers are not always an option.  I know.  Been there, done that.

Granted we are talking about many folks on the forum who have businesses and create their own soap labels, so do have printers.  But for the hobbyist like myself, I don't want to be printing off packing slips.  And the lady I know who lives in California and asked me to teach her how to make soap (maybe next time I am there visiting my son, I will do that) in a trailer park with no internet access and no mobile telephone service, she would not be able to just go check her receipt online if an order was shipped without a packing slip. 

Sorry, but it just irritates me when large companies claim they are making their business more 'efficient' because 'everybody' has a smartphone and 'unlimited data service' and can 'easily' just access their receipt on their phone and check it against the box as they open the shipment.  That is simply an illusion.

But for a company to blame a missing label on a possible leak during transport, is IMO simply an admission to shoddy packing practices and a red flag.  But then to argue about replacing the unlabeled item with a properly labeled item is even more shocking and more of a red flag.  One would think a supervisor or the owner of the business would not condone that kind of Customer Service.


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## dibbles (Jan 17, 2018)

I don't mind not having a packing slip. I am also a hobbyist, so I can pretty much remember what I ordered from where. If in doubt it is easy enough for me to walk from my soaping space in the basement to the computer to check the order. If I had a business, I may well feel differently about it.

Maybe the answer would be an option for those who want a paper packing slip to be able to request that at the time the order is placed.


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## lenarenee (Jan 17, 2018)

MaryWaldman said:


> I'm glad they sent you a pre-paid shipping label, that was the right thing to do.
> 
> I order regularly from Brambleberry but have noticed a dramatic change, for the worse, in their shipping. My last order, delivered in early December, was supposed to include a 15 oz bottle of Lavender EO 40/42. It arrived in an unmarked bottle - there was a label on it, but it was blank. It did smell like lavender EO, though. The box also arrived with no packing slip or invoice.
> 
> ...



"super sure"?  That phrase gave me an image of a Valley Girl teenager rolling her eyes, chewing gum with her mouth open while flipping her hair over her shoulder. 

It's simply not acceptable.

I'd be tempted to call them and ask for their lawyer's 800 number in case the mystery liquid in their UNLABELED bottle causes a reaction in one of your customers.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 17, 2018)

From my (the shipper's) point of view, either everyone gets a slip or no one does. The "either-or" scenario is incredibly frustrating, speaking from experience.

On occasion, someone will place an order and ask for a special version of a packing slip to be enclosed in the package or they ask that the address label not show my company name. (Thank goodness I seldom have to deal with people expecting gift wrapping or handwritten gift cards, but that happens too.) It's extremely confusing during the best of times to deal with exceptions to the normal procedure. But during the holiday rush, it can be just awful.


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## saratk (Jan 17, 2018)

When I first started ordering from Brambleberry early last year, I wasn't aware of a lot of other suppliers out there. I took their lengthy processing/shipping time + expensive postage to be the standard. Then I started ordering from different vendors and the difference is night and day. I now avoid ordering from them whenever possible. 
I've also read several product reviews on their site and the customer service response (usually written next to the comment) often seems arrogant. Along the lines of "well we're the standard and you just don't know or aren't doing it right". 
I think a greater focus on genuine customer service and boost in how quickly they get orders out would serve them well.


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## MaryWaldman (Jan 17, 2018)

My real concern is that the product, Lavender 40/42, has an MSDS. Any product that is required to ship with a Material Safety Data Sheet is, by definition, somewhat unsafe. At any point along the long shipping journey there could have been a leak, the box would have been opened, and no one would have known what risks were involved (aside from getting overwhelmed with lavender scent) because the product was unlabeled and there was no packing slip.

I think you have to have a license to ship hazardous materials, at least you did when I worked for a chemical company. 

The kicker is that I had selected a mica sample as a bonus and they forgot to include that as well. 

Thank you all for this interesting discussion, perhaps I should contact Brambleberry about this. It's just that it took them 10 days to respond to me in the first place... Here's a picture of the bottle with the blank label.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jan 17, 2018)

Thanks for the pic, Mary. It reminds me why I don't like BB's labels... once a bit of product gets on the label, it's unreadable. I've got a couple of bottles like that of stuff I rarely use and I have to guess what's in them.


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