# I think I'm done



## navigator9

I think I'm done with craft fairs. I did one today, that was supposed to have 60 to 65 vendors...there may have been 30. There were a fair amount of customers, but most of the vendors only did so so. The only one who was selling like hotcakes was the lady  selling truffles. She had customers several deep for most of the day, but most of the vendors I spoke with did pretty poorly. I sold $117 worth, and the booth fee was $50, so I cleared $67, and that's just not nearly worth it for what I put into it. Of course, this has happened before, when I said I'm done, but then I forget how tired and discouraged I am afterward, and I get sucked back in again. So if you hear me post again that I'm thinking of doing another craft fair, please give me a virtual smack upside the head, and tell me to forget it. And if you want to do craft fairs...think about selling truffles instead of soap...that woman cleaned up!!!


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## dibbles

So disappointing. Sorry it didn't go well. I know craft fairs and markets are exhausting.


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## topofmurrayhill

Anyone have a truffle dog? Maybe we can add a section to the board.


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## navigator9

dibbles said:


> So disappointing. Sorry it didn't go well. I know craft fairs and markets are exhausting.


Thanks dibbles. They're just such a crap shoot. No way to predict if it will be boom or bust. And while the exhaustion is bad enough, it's when I think of all the time it takes to make all that soap, print and cut the labels, wrap and label, make everything look pretty, make the signage, wash the table coverings, stamp the bags, all the many, many small details...it's all that _*time*_ that I can't get back. At almost 66, time gets to be a precious thing, not to be squandered. But like I said, I've been here before, so who knows. But for tonight...I'm quite done.


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## SuzieOz

navigator9 said:


> At almost 66, time gets to be a precious thing, not to be squandered.



Oh I do so agree! I'm sitting at a market right now - been here nearly 5 hours - I've sold $45 worth! Mostly to relatives. Thank God for relatives 

The weather is the culprit but, hey, we need the rain too.

I'm rethinking markets too ... hmm :?


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## shunt2011

I'm so sorry it was a bust.  It's so hard to tell how they may go.


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## Arimara

topofmurrayhill said:


> Anyone have a truffle dog? Maybe we can add a section to the board.



Truffle dog?


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## cmzaha

navigator9 said:


> Thanks dibbles. They're just such a crap shoot. No way to predict if it will be boom or bust. And while the exhaustion is bad enough, it's when I think of all the time it takes to make all that soap, print and cut the labels, wrap and label, make everything look pretty, make the signage, wash the table coverings, stamp the bags, all the many, many small details...it's all that _*time*_ that I can't get back. At almost 66, time gets to be a precious thing, not to be squandered. But like I said, I've been here before, so who knows. But for tonight...I'm quite done.


I am heading to 68, and now doing 4 markets per week. It is Exhausting and frustrating to not make any money. I decided to not do a Spring Craft fair that I have done for 6 yrs, and had booked for this weekend, due to the fact they started bringing in several additional soapmakers. Just cannot make enough to justify the costs. Here it is very difficult to make money selling soap and we seem to have a whole influx of newbies coming into the markets thinking they are going to make easy money. As if that is going to happen...It is just so frustrating. I love making soap and in order to make as much as I do I have to sell, but I get extremely tired and frustrated


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## topofmurrayhill

Arimara said:


> Truffle dog?



Truffle dog.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhEGeqDVpUk[/ame]


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## PerthMobility

Arimara said:


> Truffle dog?



It is almost the only way to find Truffles. A large operation just south of me uses dogs exclusively to locate the fungus for harvesting.


cmzaha said:


> I am heading to 68, and now doing 4 markets per week. It is Exhausting and frustrating to not make any money. I decided to not do a Spring Craft fair that I have done for 6 yrs, and had booked for this weekend, due to the fact they started bringing in several additional soapmakers. Just cannot make enough to justify the costs. Here it is very difficult to make money selling soap and we seem to have a whole influx of newbies coming into the markets thinking they are going to make easy money. As if that is going to happen...It is just so frustrating. I love making soap and in order to make as much as I do I have to sell, but I get extremely tired and frustrated



I have no idea what the rules are in your part of the world but you might consider diversifying a little and adding other products to your range. Perhaps the latest edition of my Calculator may offer a couple of ideas.


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## newbie

My guess is the other vendor was selling truffles of the chocolate variety. Most of us can sniff those kind out any day and no need for a dog! 

I guess dogs are easier than pigs to train for the fungal variety.


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## cmzaha

PerthMobility said:


> It is almost the only way to find Truffles. A large operation just south of me uses dogs exclusively to locate the fungus for harvesting.
> 
> 
> I have no idea what the rules are in your part of the world but you might consider diversifying a little and adding other products to your range. Perhaps the latest edition of my Calculator may offer a couple of ideas.


I have lots of products, including crochet and golf art. Just soap will not cut it


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## PerthMobility

cmzaha said:


> I have lots of products, including crochet and golf art. Just soap will not cut it



I completely agree. My idea was to consider therapeutic products, perhaps?


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## topofmurrayhill

newbie said:


> My guess is the other vendor was selling truffles of the chocolate variety. Most of us can sniff those kind out any day and no need for a dog!
> 
> I guess dogs are easier than pigs to train for the fungal variety.



The pigs are looking for a meal, but dogs aren't interested in eating the truffles.


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## CTAnton

Navigator, I don't know if this helps but down my way there are several huge flea markets, one of them every weekend, that don't cost a fortune to participate in . I don't do any fairs as of yet  but I wonder if the sheer volume of people would make for a profitable day. Maybe its a numbers game; if 1% of attendees buy something from me....
I was invited to sell at a farmers market that had a soap maker on alternate weekends. While I have no idea of why it happened, she dropped out.I went there earlier in the season and the number of vendor vehicles outnumbered the customers by a huge margin...just my thoughts...


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## cgsample

I went to a craft fair last weekend as a customer.  The "live music" was so loud, I couldn't talk to the vendors.  I got disgusted and left.

If the organizers schedule music, tell them to tone it down!


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## navigator9

cmzaha, at "heading to 68", I congratulate you for doing 4 markets a week. People who haven't done markets and fairs have no idea now much goes into that.

Perth Mobility, if I really thought it was about diversifying, I'd do that, but I don't think that's the issue. Where I used to work,  there was a holiday craft fair every year, and I routinely sold just over $1000 of just soap. But there, 95% of the buyers were repeat customers, who knew the soap and knew they liked it. Going to random craft fairs where people aren't familiar with my soap is asking them to spend their money for something that they may or may not like. I think that people are just not that confident yet that the economy is rebounding fast enough, and they are hesitant to part with their money on an unknown. I also think it depends on the venue. At some craft fairs, people routinely seem to spend more money. Unfortunately, there just aren't enough of those venues out there. 

CTAnton, I sincerely wish you luck if you decide to do the flea markets. It can be really profitable...and then again...not. If your good days outnumber the bad, you're all set. I remember when customers used to spend a lot more money at craft fairs. These days, not so much. I like to talk with other vendors when I do fairs, and most that I've talked to in recent years have told me that their sales are way down. I have noticed though, that food vendors always seem to do well. Like the truffle lady. And hey, if Trump gets in, he's going to make America great again, and all our problems will be solved! :crazy:


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## TBandCW

We are really trying to "work smarter, not harder".  We are getting more picky about the shows we do.  Still doing (fingers crossed) 4 markets this season that have been good to us and dropped the losers.   Just not worth all the trouble it takes to set up, etc. and not make enough $$$.
Keep looking for other venues, ask other vendors about shows they've done, you'll hit one or two that are good for you!


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## cmzaha

navigator9 said:


> cmzaha, at "heading to 68", I congratulate you for doing 4 markets a week. People who haven't done markets and fairs have no idea now much goes into that.
> 
> 
> _Navigator_, LOL, our market was trying to get me to do 2 on Wed which we were going to do until I had an issue with a gal/vendor he has managing one of them. BTW I set up 10 tables every market. That is work. She gave someone else my space and was going to put me in the dirt. DIRT, nope no way. The dummy did not get out of earshot when she called the owner complaining that a vendor was giving her trouble. We promptly told her we are not giving her trouble and left. What she does not know is the fact she could be working for me if we were to decide to partner with him. Don't think we will but one never knows...
> 
> Perth Mobility, if I really thought it was about diversifying, I'd do that, but I don't think that's the issue. Where I used to work,  there was a holiday craft fair every year, and I routinely sold just over $1000 of just soap. But there, 95% of the buyers were repeat customers, who knew the soap and knew they liked it. Going to random craft fairs where people aren't familiar with my soap is asking them to spend their money for something that they may or may not like. I think that people are just not that confident yet that the economy is rebounding fast enough, and they are hesitant to part with their money on an unknown. I also think it depends on the venue. At some craft fairs, people routinely seem to spend more money. Unfortunately, there just aren't enough of those venues out there.
> 
> 
> _Perth,_ The people are not buying like they used to.
> The craft fair I dropped out of this week was always good for $1200 or so 3 yrs ago, now I pray I can make $500, so it is not worth it. Even if I only make $200 at my main market I come out ahead because I do not pay a booth fee.
> 
> CTAnton, I sincerely wish you luck if you decide to do the flea markets. It can be really profitable...and then again...not. If your good days outnumber the bad, you're all set. I remember when customers used to spend a lot more money at craft fairs. These days, not so much. I like to talk with other vendors when I do fairs, and most that I've talked to in recent years have told me that their sales are way down. I have noticed though, that food vendors always seem to do well. Like the truffle lady. And hey, if Trump gets in, he's going to make America great again, and all our problems will be solved! :crazy:




_CTAnton_,I refuse to sell my products at flea markets. Be careful of flea markets and swap meets, it gets you labeled as a swap meet vendor. I travel up to 50+ miles for some monthly markets and people will recognize my label. Customers will tell me they saw me at so and so market.


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## TBandCW

cmzaha said:


> _CTAnton_,I refuse to sell my products at flea markets. Be careful of flea markets and swap meets, it gets you labeled as a swap meet vendor. I travel up to 50+ miles for some monthly markets and people will recognize my label. Customers will tell me they saw me at so and so market.



I agree Carolyn, you have an image to project.  I'm getting into some very nice shops and if I did a flea market it wouldn't look good.  I'm not being snooty, just keeping it real.


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## CTAnton

To be honest, you guys and gals are right. I never thought it through but I am in several higher end shops and that's the direction I want to go in. Many thanks to all!


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## Spice

CTAnton said:


> Navigator, I don't know if this helps but down my way there are several huge flea markets, one of them every weekend, that don't cost a fortune to participate in . I don't do any fairs as of yet  but I wonder if the sheer volume of people would make for a profitable day. Maybe its a numbers game; if 1% of attendees buy something from me....
> I was invited to sell at a farmers market that had a soap maker on alternate weekends. While I have no idea of why it happened, she dropped out.I went there earlier in the season and the number of vendor vehicles outnumbered the customers by a huge margin...just my thoughts...





navigator9 said:


> I think I'm done with craft fairs. I did one today, that was supposed to have 60 to 65 vendors...there may have been 30. There were a fair amount of customers, but most of the vendors only did so so. The only one who was selling like hotcakes was the lady  selling truffles. She had customers several deep for most of the day, but most of the vendors I spoke with did pretty poorly. I sold $117 worth, and the booth fee was $50, so I cleared $67, and that's just not nearly worth it for what I put into it. Of course, this has happened before, when I said I'm done, but then I forget how tired and discouraged I am afterward, and I get sucked back in again. So if you hear me post again that I'm thinking of doing another craft fair, please give me a virtual smack upside the head, and tell me to forget it. And if you want to do craft fairs...think about selling truffles instead of soap...that woman cleaned up!!!





cmzaha said:


> _CTAnton_,I refuse to sell my products at flea markets. Be careful of flea markets and swap meets, it gets you labeled as a swap meet vendor. I travel up to 50+ miles for some monthly markets and people will recognize my label. Customers will tell me they saw me at so and so market.



navigator9, I was at a craft fair the early part of this month, it was crap! Last year, same time, same market, I did 4x the amount I did this season. I have learned that when things dont do will, I have to find the, "What can I learn from this." As I sat there waiting for some one to come by and buy, I noticed that my name keep confusing people with my soap. My name is on the label. That was learning lesson number one, change my label. Then I started looking at my booth. I noticed that the way I had set up my booth had created a little blind spot that I never noticed before, change number two. And finally, I decided to to change my layout of my tables so that they could be more customer friendly. When life gives me lemons, I sell them!

When I was starting out, I was very scare to come out of my closet, so of speak. I had no pretty tables, didnt even have a table cloth for my 1950 year old poker table; I had no idea what to say, I didnt even know how to describe my products to others. All I knew was that if I was to get out, I had to do the raw thing, if I could sell at a flea/swap market, I could sell anywhere. This was how I honed my skills at talking soap. Convincing people of another lanugage why they need to buy my 6 dollar bar at a flea market. I knew at some point in time I would say good-bye. No one has ever said a thing to me about it and I dare anyone too. I am very strong on judging others, and I let others know it. BUT.....I use my age to get away with it. I dont dye my hair, so I call it Silver, now, how is someone going to disagree with an older woman and look cool? Just saying, will be 61 this Nov.


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## PuddinAndPeanuts

I do maybe 20-30 shows a year. I started off doing only jewelry, then added bath and body.  My sales volume doubled instantly.  To this day, most shows are 1/2 and 1/2 between the two.  My point being, diversity definitely helps me.  The only other thing I'd say is to really evaluate your shows.  I haven't found much of a relationship between what I pay to be in a show vs how much I'll sell.  I do know that I need to avoid church or school shows unless it's Christmas time.  When evaluating whether to do a show, I look at how many years it's been going on and the average income of the zip code it's in as a start to figuring out if it's worthwhile


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## JuneP

I went through the same thing when I was selling my pottery through craft shows. One time I was next to a guy selling German silver rings, which aren't even silver, and there was a long line of people waiting to buy those. The other problem I had with that home town show, was we are a tourist town, and people loved my work, but they'd say, I don't have any more room in my suitcase! I loved peoples feedback but the sales just weren't enough, in my mind to make up for the time spent away from the studio, setting up, tearing down and and energy it took to do it. 

I always did better at my home gallery sales. A friend of mine once a year invited other artists and held her own outdoor show at her home. She was a pottery and invited a couple of other potters, a weaver and other high end crafts people. Everyone provided their mailing lists and the cost of the printing and postage was shared. That worked out better than a lot of our local craft shows.

When you live in a tourist town, and I've lived in two over the years, the people who do best it seems were those selling jewelry and clothing  and other easily packable items. 



navigator9 said:


> I think I'm done with craft fairs. I did one today, that was supposed to have 60 to 65 vendors...there may have been 30. There were a fair amount of customers, but most of the vendors only did so so. The only one who was selling like hotcakes was the lady  selling truffles. She had customers several deep for most of the day, but most of the vendors I spoke with did pretty poorly. I sold $117 worth, and the booth fee was $50, so I cleared $67, and that's just not nearly worth it for what I put into it. Of course, this has happened before, when I said I'm done, but then I forget how tired and discouraged I am afterward, and I get sucked back in again. So if you hear me post again that I'm thinking of doing another craft fair, please give me a virtual smack upside the head, and tell me to forget it. And if you want to do craft fairs...think about selling truffles instead of soap...that woman cleaned up!!!


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## SunRiseArts

navigator9 said:


> I think I'm done with craft fairs. I did one today, that was supposed to have 60 to 65 vendors...there may have been 30. There were a fair amount of customers, but most of the vendors only did so so. The only one who was selling like hotcakes was the lady selling truffles. She had customers several deep for most of the day, but most of the vendors I spoke with did pretty poorly. I sold $117 worth, and the booth fee was $50, so I cleared $67, and that's just not nearly worth it for what I put into it. Of course, this has happened before, when I said I'm done, but then I forget how tired and discouraged I am afterward, and I get sucked back in again. So if you hear me post again that I'm thinking of doing another craft fair, please give me a virtual smack upside the head, and tell me to forget it. And if you want to do craft fairs...think about selling truffles instead of soap...that woman cleaned up!!!


 

This is interesting, I was wondering what the average people make minus supplies, booth, etc.

I thought I would get into the next craft fair, but is making less than 100 an average, because then is not worth it ....


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

I think many people over estimate how successful a show was, by thinking "I sell a soap for $5 and the booth costs $50, so if I sell 11 soaps I have made a profit". But that ignores the actual costs of the soap itself. If you sell at $5 but the soap itself costs you $3 to make, you have to sell 26 soaps to make a profit from the show ($5 price - $3 cost = $2 profit per soap, $50 booth fee / $2 = 25 soaps to break even, + 1 soap for profit)


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## PuddinAndPeanuts

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> I think many people over estimate how successful a show was, by thinking "I sell a soap for $5 and the booth costs $50, so if I sell 11 soaps I have made a profit". But that ignores the actual costs of the soap itself. If you sell at $5 but the soap itself costs you $3 to make, you have to sell 26 soaps to make a profit from the show ($5 price - $3 cost = $2 profit per soap, $50 booth fee / $2 = 25 soaps to break even, + 1 soap for profit)




You're forgetting of the the craft fair vendors greatest mandatory expenses...  yummy craft fair FOOD!!!


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## navigator9

SunRiseArts said:


> This is interesting, I was wondering what the average people make minus supplies, booth, etc.
> 
> I thought I would get into the next craft fair, but is making less than 100 an average, because then is not worth it ....



Give it a try, you never know. I have a love/hate relationship with craft fairs. I LOVE doing them. I love the atmosphere when you get there early in the morning to set up. I love meeting the other vendors, looking around to see what they're selling. I love talking to the customers about soap. 

I hate getting ready. I'm really picky, and I wrap my soaps in tissue and then a cigar band, and I'm very fussy with the wrapping, so it's tedious and takes forever. I hate loading the car. I have a teeny car, and it's always a miserable job trying to squeeze everything in. And I'm getting older, and everything feels heavier than it used to! I hate getting to the venue and having to unload the car all over again, drag it in and set up, only to have to break it all down at the end of the day, drive home, and unload it all again. If, and this is a big if...if you make enough money, it makes it all worth it. But lately, the return just hasn't been enough, and I get home asking myself, why am I doing this? 

So then I stop, and some time goes by, and I start missing the craft fairs again, and I forget how miserable it is when you don't do well, and I get sucked back in!!! But you may live in an area where craft fairs do well, and you may be very successful. So I say, try it and see how it goes for you.  I'm not sure if it's still the economy, or what it is, but people just don't seem to be spending at craft fairs like they used to. So try one and see what you think!


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## DeeAnna

I've done fairs off and on since about 2005 or so, and my sales are almost always a break even or a loss. I've used the argument "it must be the economy" in the past to justify spotty sales, but I've been saying this for soooooo long ... it's hard to believe that's the problem.


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## cmzaha

I love attending craft fairs and meeting the people plus the vendor friends I have made over the years. Sales are certainly not what they used to be with all the DIY sites whether safe, good or bad most just do not know the difference and blissfully make their unsafe lotion at home. In the last year I have had more and more come to my booth and mention they make all their own lotion, when I asked how they preserve it 9-10 say they do not need preservative.... I will say, if we had to unload our truck and haul everything downstairs after each market I would probably not do them. I am fortunate enough to live on a quite dead end hillside street, so we just back the truck into the carport and leave everything packed.Last year we did up to 4 per week but now with the parents we are down to 1 since I cannot comment to any market managers of being there each week. The owner of our market understands plus he owes me dearly! That's another story. 

Sales at craft fairs and farmer markets can very much depend on the location of the market and where you are in the market. If you have all B&B sometimes you can get the manager/owner to get you close to the produce area and it can lead to double the sales if you are out of the craft area. Getting preference in a market usually means a few years of attending and sticking with them, even attending their loser markets. Owners will have their list of their standby vendors that they call on when they are in desperate need of vendors. 

My Wed Kaiser market which is/was a great market for me now sucks. We had to move to another location and my sales are now down to $50 a day. During the holiday sales were averaging $300 a week which was nice and up to last week with the move sales averaged $150 -200 per week, which would not be a lot if I had to pay the $50 booth fee. With the distance of 60 miles round trip it is a loser at the moment, but I will stick it out to keep the owner from losing his market. Believe me I have been having thoughts of quitting. I also have no desire to wholesale. I think he is going to have a new market open up next month on Thursdays twice a month and that one I am looking forward to. Sometimes I think, especially in our area, that Farmer's Market are dying out or there are just to many of them. It is hard frustrating work but I do still love it even though I get bummed out at times.


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## SunRiseArts

DeeAnna said:


> I've done fairs off and on since about 2005 or so, and my sales are almost always a break even or a loss. I've used the argument "it must be the economy" in the past to justify spotty sales, but I've been saying this for soooooo long ... it's hard to believe that's the problem.


 

I think is mainly a mind set more than anything.   Hand made soaps are a luxury.  I used to go to Macys to buy good soap, and to Ross to find them if I was lucky.  They became too expensive, and could not afford them, which Is why I learned to make them. Since I am an artist, then I have become so entangle with it.  ha ha

I dislike commercial soap so much.  Is so bad for your skin ...  but the average folk out there probably thinks why pay 5 dollars for a bar of soap, if I can get 8 or 10 at the grocery store for the same price?

Lots of people do not know, and / or do not care what they put on their skin. Even though it is the largest organ in our body.

Lately there is a fad with bath bombs and such because of certain companies  I shall not name.  Is a fashion thing, that is all.


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## navigator9

DeeAnna said:


> I've done fairs off and on since about 2005 or so, and my sales are almost always a break even or a loss. I've used the argument "it must be the economy" in the past to justify spotty sales, but I've been saying this for soooooo long ... it's hard to believe that's the problem.



I know Dee, I feel the same way about that. And then sometimes, I would think it was just me who wasn't doing well, so I'd go around and talk to the other vendors, and when I did really poorly, so did everyone else. Well, almost everyone, the food vendors always seem to do well. Soapmakers, if you want to sell...sell food instead of soap!!!



cmzaha said:


> I love attending craft fairs and meeting the people plus the vendor friends I have made over the years. Sales are certainly not what they used to be with all the DIY sites .



You know, I never thought of that, but maybe since you can learn how to make anything these days on the internet, maybe people are making their own crafts instead of buying them.

All I know is that years ago, people would go to craft fairs to get unique gifts that they couldn't find in stores. Today, a lot of craft fairs allow vendors who sell Avon, and Tupperware, Scentsy, etc. I've always tried to avoid those, but maybe shoppers don't see craft fairs as the unique shopping experience they once were. It's a shame. Good luck to all of you who are giving it a go!


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## shunt2011

I've been doing shows for quite a few years now. I was doing 7-10 per year but last year only did 4 and had my best year yet. Trying the same thing this year. They are fairly large shows in tourist towns about 3 hours from me but my parents live up that way so it's not a huge expense. I generally pay about 100 for a two day show. If this year is as good I think I'll stick to doing it this way. That and the sales I make at work and to family keep me being able to do it and put extra money in my pockets.


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## cmzaha

shunt2011 said:


> Be been doing shows for quite a few years now. I was doing 7-10 per year but last year only did 4 and had my best year yet. Trying the same thing this year.  They are fairly large shows in tourist towns about 3 hours from me but my parents live up that way so it's not a huge expense.  I generally pay about 100 for a two day show. If this year is as good I think I'll stick to doing it this way.  That and the sales I make at work and to family keep me being able to do it and put extra money in my pockets.


I did have one great 5 day over 2 weekends last year. It is a show I have attended for several years and the previous years had gone not so well. I was glad I forced the hubby to go last year as it was the best I have ever done there. Certainly had something to do with only 1 other soapmaker was there selling when she usually brings in 5 or 6. The cost of my 5 day one was $250. Three other large Holiday shows were barely make costs shows @ $50 per day.


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## wetshavingproducts

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> I think many people over estimate how successful a show was, by thinking "I sell a soap for $5 and the booth costs $50, so if I sell 11 soaps I have made a profit". But that ignores the actual costs of the soap itself. If you sell at $5 but the soap itself costs you $3 to make, you have to sell 26 soaps to make a profit from the show ($5 price - $3 cost = $2 profit per soap, $50 booth fee / $2 = 25 soaps to break even, + 1 soap for profit)



You forgot the time. Time to setup & breakdown & the time to man the booth. Multiply that by minimum wage and that's what you lost by not working McDonald's for X hours. If you had a helper, add that cost in too.

And then double minimum wage because you really aren't going to find anyone to work for you for that little. It's hard work and unless the unemployment rate is astronomical, you aren't going to get good help for less than 1.5x minimum wage, but 2x minimum and you should be able to get someone good. Also, don't forget that employing someone incurs additional costs other than wages, such as employer's tax (SSN & medicare), unemployment insurance, & worker's comp. So really, your time is your most valuable asset.

That said, if you had nothing better to do and like manual labor, then go for it. Or if you just love doing it, who am I to tell you what to do or not to do. But if you're serious about making a profit, you need to take those costs into consideration.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Very good points. Add in time and use of a car to get there and markets most likely aren't in themselves overly profitable. Maybe more marketing tools


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## LilyJo

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Very good points. Add in time and use of a car to get there and markets most likely aren't in themselves overly profitable. Maybe more marketing tools



THIS!!

We have more or less stopped doing fairs and markets unless its one we really WANT to do or if we need to get some feedback on branding etc.  We tend to just use them as marketing opportunities, they sure as heck dont make enough to consider them as truly profitable!


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## debbism

Good points. I've always found the weekly local markets to be a bust. Usually 38-50 for the booth and I was lucky to break even. After a year of fighting to do well, I switched to more themed events and found my niche. They were more 2-3 day events and festivals that seem to be more lucrative and a hell of a lot more fun.


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## Zany_in_CO

For what it's worth, just thinking out loud...

I think if you want to have a successful B & B business, keep up with the times. I would be thinking about Amazon. Did you hear? Amazon bought Whole Foods this week! It's a different world. People are shopping retail less and less -- since we can buy on line for the same cost and not hafta go thru the hassle of traffic, not to forget the time-saving factor of buying on line. 

Let's face it. Craft fairs are great for the camaraderie and opportunity for face time with customers, but craft fairs are going the way of retail stores, i.e., disappearing all over the place.

I just did a quick check "Amazon homemade soap" and there aren't many. And the ones I saw didn't compete with the lovely soaps that show up every day on SMF. I'm not sure about online artisan shops like Etsy.

Another thought... 2 Colorado soapers I know, started out at farmers markets for a few years and then started selling wholesale to places all over the USA. They are actually making a living selling B & B products to Boutiques, Bed & Breakfast establishments, Nurseries, Spas, Hotels, etc. Of course, it's more work than fun, but they keep busy and, happily, don't have to drag stuff somewhere, set up, take down and drag most of the product back home again.

Something to think about.


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## wetshavingproducts

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Very good points. Add in time and use of a car to get there and markets most likely aren't in themselves overly profitable. Maybe more marketing tools



Yup. Marketing is the only possible benefit to most of the craft fairs from a purely business perspective. That said, marketing is also the humongous black hole of business. And how much that craft show increased your brand's standing is pretty much impossible to track, and in all honestly, probably not a huge effect unless you had a lot of interested people who took your sales literature.



Zany_in_CO said:


> I just did a quick check "Amazon homemade soap" and there aren't many. And the ones I saw didn't compete with the lovely soaps that show up every day on SMF. I'm not sure about online artisan shops like Etsy.



That's because amazon is not the place for homemade soaps. It's the place for mass produced inexpensive items that are purpose built for shipping as opposed to B&M retail.



> Another thought... 2 Colorado soapers I know, started out at farmers markets for a few years and then started selling wholesale to places all over the USA. They are actually making a living selling B & B products to Boutiques, Bed & Breakfast establishments, Nurseries, Spas, Hotels, etc. Of course, it's more work than fun, but they keep busy and, happily, don't have to drag stuff somewhere, set up, take down and drag most of the product back home again.
> 
> Something to think about.



Volume is the only way to make real money soaping. 200 years ago home made soap & luxury soap were the only game in town. Then industrialization hit, advertising improved, and P&G and Lever Brothers were born. Of course, a lot of competitors were mowed into the ground or were gobbled up by those two, palmolive and lifebuoy (which may be lever bros) come to mind. Massive mergers happened too so that today those are the two behemoths we're stuck with now.


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## Selaine

When I did shows 15 years ago, I could never sell enough soap to be worth it.  But I sold bath salts and bath oils and bath teas and bath items that were made at super low cost and sold at much higher margins to be able to support my soap making addiction.....


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## SunRiseArts

Zany_in_CO said:


> For what it's worth, just thinking out loud...
> 
> I think if you want to have a successful B & B business, keep up with the times. I would be thinking about Amazon. Did you hear? Amazon bought Whole Foods this week! It's a different world. People are shopping retail less and less -- since we can buy on line for the same cost and not hafta go thru the hassle of traffic, not to forget the time-saving factor of buying on line.
> 
> Let's face it. Craft fairs are great for the camaraderie and opportunity for face time with customers, but craft fairs are going the way of retail stores, i.e., disappearing all over the place.
> 
> I just did a quick check "Amazon homemade soap" and there aren't many. And the ones I saw didn't compete with the lovely soaps that show up every day on SMF. I'm not sure about online artisan shops like Etsy.
> 
> Another thought... 2 Colorado soapers I know, started out at farmers markets for a few years and then started selling wholesale to places all over the USA. They are actually making a living selling B & B products to Boutiques, Bed & Breakfast establishments, Nurseries, Spas, Hotels, etc. Of course, it's more work than fun, but they keep busy and, happily, don't have to drag stuff somewhere, set up, take down and drag most of the product back home again.
> 
> Something to think about.


 

I know what you mean, but I have huge issues with Amazon.  I would never again buy or sell anything there.


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## cmzaha

debbism said:


> Good points. I've always found the weekly local markets to be a bust. Usually 38-50 for the booth and I was lucky to break even. After a year of fighting to do well, I switched to more themed events and found my niche. They were more 2-3 day events and festivals that seem to be more lucrative and a hell of a lot more fun.


I have to admit if I had to pay a high booth price I would have to consider quitting since I do not have extra money to pay out for no return. I can actually make some money since I do not pay high booth fees. All supplies, gas, etc comes out of my market money and I still have enough to purchase groceries each week. It helps a lot when on fixed income after retirement. I am going to get rich doing this, nope but that is okay. We have been lucky to have had Boats, Harleys, Sandbuggys, traveled so life is good, even without lots of extra money now. Still have the Harley's but no time to ride with the parents care. Sorry I am rambling...

I have to admit I do not have a desire to wholesale, I am Retired, but I really enjoy my markets. If I can swing it along with taking care of my parents I will be adding 2 more markets in the next month or so. I did tell our market owner I cannot swing the fourth one he has starting. But I am really looking forward to having a Friday night market again. I will mention it is just as hard a business for the market owners with the economy and the popularity fading and handcrafted vendors fading away.


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## debbism

I'm with you there. I'm dealing with a different market type so a $250 booth for 2-3 days is rather low considering what I usually make at them and the fact that I am usually the only vendor of my type there. It's the huge events that I am nervous about taking a chance on doing where the booth fee is 3-4 times that.  I know I can do well there but I'm not sure I can afford the risk just yet.


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## Spice

SunRiseArts said:


> I know what you mean, but I have huge issues with Amazon.  I would never again buy or sell anything there.



I just went into amazon, there is 26 pages of soap. I tried to go to the 26th, not a chance. In order to get to page 26, I have to go through pages 1 -25.:headbanging:

Everywhere I go, there are hundreds of soaps. I am thinking that the "Big Gunners" get first page.


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## cmzaha

debbism said:


> I'm with you there. I'm dealing with a different market type so a $250 booth for 2-3 days is rather low considering what I usually make at them and the fact that I am usually the only vendor of my type there. It's the huge events that I am nervous about taking a chance on doing where the booth fee is 3-4 times that.  I know I can do well there but I'm not sure I can afford the risk just yet.


We checked out a large show at the Anaheim Convention that was in the $700 range and it was a complete bust for almost everyone there. I was invited and had thankfully backed off. It was a holiday show in 2015. I see you are in So Cal, and it makes me wonder where you are the only soap vendor. Very seldom am I the only one. Even the Avocado one in Fallbrook is not good anymore and is expensive. It was one that was really good several yrs ago


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## SunRiseArts

Spice said:


> I just went into amazon, there is 26 pages of soap. I tried to go to the 26th, not a chance. In order to get to page 26, I have to go through pages 1 -25.:headbanging:
> 
> Everywhere I go, there are hundreds of soaps. I am thinking that the "Big Gunners" get first page.


 

yep, There is so much competition out there. I have my MP soaps on ebay, if I sell one. Sometimes I do from time to time. 

When I make extra my hubby takes to work and his coworkers buy it. Maybe is enough to pay for supplies at the end. Honestly not worth it IMO.

I think those who make it to the grocery store or something like that you have to make thousands to make money that is decent. Then personaly I think, the joy of making an artistry is gone .


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## navigator9

Spice said:


> I just went into amazon, there is 26 pages of soap. I tried to go to the 26th, not a chance. In order to get to page 26, I have to go through pages 1 -25.:headbanging:
> 
> Everywhere I go, there are hundreds of soaps. I am thinking that the "Big Gunners" get first page.





cmzaha said:


> We checked out a large show at the Anaheim Convention that was in the $700 range and it was a complete bust for almost everyone there. I was invited and had thankfully backed off. It was a holiday show in 2015. I see you are in So Cal, and it makes me wonder where you are the only soap vendor. Very seldom am I the only one. Even the Avocado one in Fallbrook is not good anymore and is expensive. It was one that was really good several yrs ago





SunRiseArts said:


> yep, There is so much competition out there. I have my MP soaps on ebay, if I sell one. Sometimes I do from time to time.
> 
> When I make extra my hubby takes to work and his coworkers buy it. Maybe is enough to pay for supplies at the end. Honestly not worth it IMO.
> 
> I think those who make it to the grocery store or something like that you have to make thousands to make money that is decent. Then personaly I think, the joy of making an artistry is gone .



This makes me so sad. Do you think it is the internet, easily providing  people with the info to make anything they want? Craftspeople don't  learn from other craftspeople any more...the info they get on the  internet, (and we know this, from posts on this forum), may or may not  be correct. And many seem to not care about putting in the work to really learn a craft,  which is fine if you're just making something for your own enjoyment,  but if you're selling a product that has your name attached to it, I  would think you'd want to make sure it was the very best you could do.  Something you'd be proud of. But I don't see a lot of that these days.  So craft fairs become diluted with mediocre products, and people become  disillusioned with not being able to find unique, quality items at craft  fairs like they used to. Maybe all of this has lowered shopper's  expectations, and made them satisfied with less. I don't know, I'm just  rambling here, but it makes me miss the old days, and the sense of  anticipation I felt when I went to a craft fair, because I knew I would  always find something amazing.


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## debbism

cmzaha, it is not often I am the only soap vendor but as a returning vendor for SOME events, if I am there, they don't bring in others - the last few shows I have been as they were smaller events further north - like ventura, Sacramento and they limited the vendors so there were few no duplicate types.

And there are events that I have been turned down for because they already had another soaper there.


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## SunRiseArts

navigator9 said:


> This makes me so sad. Do you think it is the internet, easily providing people with the info to make anything they want? Craftspeople don't learn from other craftspeople any more...the info they get on the internet, (and we know this, from posts on this forum), may or may not be correct. And many seem to not care about putting in the work to really learn a craft, which is fine if you're just making something for your own enjoyment, but if you're selling a product that has your name attached to it, I would think you'd want to make sure it was the very best you could do. Something you'd be proud of. But I don't see a lot of that these days. So craft fairs become diluted with mediocre products, and people become disillusioned with not being able to find unique, quality items at craft fairs like they used to. Maybe all of this has lowered shopper's expectations, and made them satisfied with less. I don't know, I'm just rambling here, but it makes me miss the old days, and the sense of anticipation I felt when I went to a craft fair, because I knew I would always find something amazing.


 


I believe this. I think the internet has changed everything. Some of it good, and some is bad. I take so much research and study in everything I do, and I find a lot of people out there making stuff that is not up to standard. I like to do a lot of MP, but I am an artist and spend quite some time painting my pieces and such. A lot of people melt and sell just melt anything to sell. I think not always the quality is there.

On the other hand, among many issues I have with amazon, one is to be said for them taking the whole market. I guess you could say more or less the same about Walmart and target, although these last two companies employ a lot of people. Specially Walmart. At my local Walmart there is a guy with mild retardation that pushes carts, and he has been there for at least 5 years. Walmart often gives people with disabilities and senior citizen jobs that others would not. But amazon breaks all the laws of anti-trust, and get away with it. I think they are responsible for many businesses closing down, and all their stuff is from China.

I do not have the same quarrel with eBay, because eBay is a broker, and facilitates sells, giving many individuals the opportunity to sell from anywhere in the world.

I must be getting old,. When we had local stores and fairs, and such, communities were real places, people knew each other. Today it seems everyone is isolated. Lots of lonely people out there. I wish it was not like that.


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## Spice

navigator9 said:


> This makes me so sad. Do you think it is the internet, easily providing  people with the info to make anything they want? Craftspeople don't  learn from other craftspeople any more...the info they get on the  internet, (and we know this, from posts on this forum), may or may not  be correct. And many seem to not care about putting in the work to really learn a craft,  which is fine if you're just making something for your own enjoyment,  but if you're selling a product that has your name attached to it, I  would think you'd want to make sure it was the very best you could do.  Something you'd be proud of. But I don't see a lot of that these days.  So craft fairs become diluted with mediocre products, and people become  disillusioned with not being able to find unique, quality items at craft  fairs like they used to. Maybe all of this has lowered shopper's  expectations, and made them satisfied with less. I don't know, I'm just  rambling here, but it makes me miss the old days, and the sense of  anticipation I felt when I went to a craft fair, because I knew I would  always find something amazing.



You may have a point there, last week I was doing a farmers market, people were buying bath bombs and they kept asking me if it was going to give them a yeast infection (women). I make my products bland, IMO, if I use a colorant its from an herb/infused oil, I don't use dye in my bath bombs or have all those pretty fluorescent  colors, or spinning balls that light up the bathroom. Most said that Lush products were either giving them an itch or a yeast infection.

When Lush makes products like that, it make all crafters part of Lush's inferior products. A company that large, I would think, would have better products.


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## SunRiseArts

Spice said:


> You may have a point there, last week I was doing a farmers market, people were buying bath bombs and they kept asking me if it was going to give them a yeast infection (women). I make my products bland, IMO, if I use a colorant its from an herb/infused oil, I don't use dye in my bath bombs or have all those pretty fluorescent colors, or spinning balls that light up the bathroom. Most said that Lush products were either giving them an itch or a yeast infection.
> 
> When Lush makes products like that, it make all crafters part of Lush's inferior products. A company that large, I would think, would have better products.


 
Not sure if it is true, but I heard that anything with sugar down there can cause a yeast infection because it changes the ph. I avoid sugar in all my products, but mainly because we have crazy ants in Texas.

I think one of the fine ladies here is a nurse, maybe she can confirm or not the veracity of that statement.


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## earlene

I am a retired nurse, but not the only nurse on the forum.

Some women are more prone to yeast infections than others.  A variety of things can play a part in this extremely uncomfortable dilemna, including diabetes, blood sugar issues (with or without diabetes), tight pants or pantyhose, sexual activity, immuno-suppression, antibiotic usage, even genetic pre-disposition (according to some), physical aspects (of the body itself), obesity, birth control methods, douche usage, etc.  So it's not all about taking a bath with a bath bomb and the ingredients therein.

However, it is highly recommended that for women with a propensity to yeast infections, bath bombs should only be used once a week and that they don't sit long in the tub, especially if the bomb has any glitter.  In fact, it is recommended to shower after bathing with a bath bomb with glitter because glitter is not vaginal-friendly.  Also of note:  fragrances and colorants are also not vaginal-friendly and women with such issues are also more likely to do better with less fragrance and colorants in their bath bombs.


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## debbism

I've wondered about this especially since I used to be prone to these before my diet changed. I stopped drinking sugary drinks and as a result, I not longer crave/consume mass amounts of sugar. 

It also begs the question of whether adding probiotics would do anything. I already add it to other products but I wonder if it would stay intact even if it is a shelf stable type


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## charmed47

Hi everyone,
I was planning on doing craft fairs since I got my new soap business going... and reading you is a bit discouraging... I'm a newby... but I cannot do annything else since I had a big car accident and cannot work anymore and just can't see myself doing anything at all so for me it was a way of doing something with my life, seing people, doing something I love (making soaps) and a bit of money (not get rich) I have a question for you guys... Do you innovate with technologie? Do you have an online store? Do you sell something else then soap that is bath related... ? Sometimes it could be an idea to do different things? I don't know.... I'm in Canada, I don't know if its the same here but I'm questionning myself weither its a good avenue or not...? We were planning on getting on the road with the rv and doing fairs and all... am I just a big dreamer? I prefer to think positive and isn't their is a change of heart from people and they are coming back to homebased product... No?


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## cmzaha

I do not know the regulations for Canada but here in the US most cities/counties require Business Licenses to sell in their cities so it can get expensive to sell in multiple cities/counties. So that is something to check on if you are trying to have a mobile type business. Here in the US sales are not what they were even 5yrs ago, and I think the influx of DIY sites has hurt us tremendously. For example I have a customer that used to purchase bath bombs, she now makes them herself. LOL, in fact I am thinking about asking how much she would wholesale them to me...bath bombs are my nemesis . She does still purchase soap and syndet shampoo bars from me.


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## navigator9

Hello Charmed! Honestly, I wasn't meaning to discourage anyone, just to be realistic. I didn't start selling soap because I thought I'd make a lot of money. I had always loved going to craft fairs and thought it would be fun to be on the selling side for a change, and make some extra money. But I know there are a lot of people out there who do expect to make it big by selling their soap. And there are a few who do manage to do that. But not so very many, I'm afraid. When I first started selling, I also ordered soaps from some makers who were quite well known, and seemed to do a lot of business. I wanted to see how my soap measured up. I was quite surprised that their soaps didn't seem to be anything special. They were nice, but not nicer than mine. So what was the secret? I think marketing has a lot to do with it. They had websites with beautiful photos and graphics. They had a big online presence. They had widely read soap blogs. I think anyone who wants to make a considerable amount of money has to be good at marketing their product. If you just want to do a few craft fairs here and there, you can make some money, but for me, the amount of time and work I had to put into it, just isn't worth it. Your area may be different. You need to pick and choose craft fairs wisely. But definitely give it a try!!! You never know how things will turn out.


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## penelopejane

There are two business in Oz which are run by marketers. The have a good catchy name, they know people in magazines and have huge write ups about their soap. Their soap is not good (one has Castile sold at 8 weeks) but they sell for $$$ and sell well. 

I find it disappointing that the public are so unable to discriminate between good and bad soap. It's all about who you know, labelling and marketing not the product.


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## SunRiseArts

charmed47 said:


> Hi everyone,
> I was planning on doing craft fairs since I got my new soap business going... and reading you is a bit discouraging... I'm a newby... but I cannot do annything else since I had a big car accident and cannot work anymore and just can't see myself doing anything at all so for me it was a way of doing something with my life, seing people, doing something I love (making soaps) and a bit of money (not get rich) I have a question for you guys... Do you innovate with technologie? Do you have an online store? Do you sell something else then soap that is bath related... ? Sometimes it could be an idea to do different things? I don't know.... I'm in Canada, I don't know if its the same here but I'm questionning myself weither its a good avenue or not...? We were planning on getting on the road with the rv and doing fairs and all... am I just a big dreamer? I prefer to think positive and isn't their is a change of heart from people and they are coming back to homebased product... No?


 
Never let anyone stop you from what your dream is.  Besides the fact that you go from town to town might be a good thing!  just make sure you are complying with all that is necessary.  Do not commit lots of money to it.  I would just make a loaf or two and see how they sell, and take it from there.


----------



## SunRiseArts

Having said what I said above .....

The town I live has a knows farmers market every Saturday so I checked it out.  I personally do not like the fact that you have to commit through a contract for a whole year,  but ridiculously, these things are asked from the vendors:

_The Market Manager will also strive to limit the similar types of all items, to maximize variety for the consumer and regulate competition within the Market. _
 
_All vendors shall be subject to inspection of their farm or place of production. _

_All Farmer/Food vendors shall provide proof of $1 million of liability insurance with the market named as additional insured. _

_Violation of any provision of the Market Rules of Operation shall be a material breach and default by the vendor. Vendor will be required to vacate the market immediately. Failure to vacate may subject the vendor to civil and criminal remedies, including but not limited to remedies of civil and criminal trespass. There will be no refund for spaces for this day._

_Attire and grooming must be neat, clean and appropriate for the work being performed._ (as if) .....
 
Not sure I want to go there ... I carry insurance, but not that much, and only have it as a safety net, I make my soap in my kitchen and then clean thoroughly after I am done, and do not have a separated place in my house for soaping at the moment.

Not sure that is how I want to spend every weekend either.


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## ilovebathing

It's is definitely interesting when I read everyone's post.  When I lived in the Philippines, there were cattle ranchers who would "park" their carts in the middle of our land selling leather materials, and that was without technology.  It was their way of making a living and perhaps also because they can carry everything with them.  So all I can say is, it is definitely something to try and invest in.  I also remembered one important thing, if you plan to do this yourself, it will take lots of time and even more so than a full time job.  If you then decide to have a business partner, make sure this person is someone reliable and willing to handle whatever comes along with the business etc, meeting with other vendors with you.  I had invested on an art bus, a bus that would travel city to city teaching children how to paint or make art.  One day my business partner didn't go with me in dealing with our marketing video guy (who helped us with visual material) and to make the long story short, it was a bad idea to go by myself, hence the unreliable business partner who didn't commit in going with me.  These are just my experiences and hopefully this will give you a sense of what to expect perhaps.


----------



## WyvernWench

...........


----------



## toxikon

And don't forget those who buy handmade soap as gifts! They are looking a pretty soap in pretty packaging. 

It's very hard to tell the quality of a soap just by looking at it - so I think it's very important to package your products well and make your booth and design very visually attractive. It's an art and a skill all in itself.


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## cmzaha

While no one wants to kill someone's dream I will again mention it is hard hard work and not big return when selling soap. If traveling to different cities and venues you are really not spending the time to build up a clientele like you would at a market you attend regularly. You risk only acquiring the customer that buys because it is pretty or smells good and many of those do not purchase again or move on to someone else's soap because it looks pretty or smells good. These people do not realize a difference in quality. Many customers do realize there is good and bad soap or the one's that get hooked on yours and will not even consider buying from another vendor. I have customers that do recognize the difference but it took several years to get to that point. My booth and label is recognized at most markets I attend even if I show up once a year, but this took over 5 yrs to happen. I do not even have a banner and they know who I am, lol, probably the one without a banner . I do make money, although not much now since my parents require full time care. Heck, last weekend I sold over $200 while working on my rental house, my customer came and picked up their products they wanted.  You have to love making soap and love the hard work of attending markets. My hubby and I enjoy meeting people and seeing our vendor friends, but as we are getting older it is getting harder. I carry $2 mil insurance, most markets in our area require $1 mil. 

My daughter originally started this venture with big dreams and I told her she was a few years late. She did make a living for her family, since she did not have to pay rent or house payment, in the beginning but 2 yrs ago the sales started declining so badly she gave up on her end, but still misses it. This was during the economic crash and her husband was out of work. There was just to many now selling handmade and decorative m&p products. Her sales were online and I think it was harder work promoting daily than going to markets. 

Sorry I am rambling so I will go to work now...back to the rental and painting


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## SunRiseArts

When something you enjoy making becomes such a worry,  then the love I put into it kind of falls.


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## burnandgroom

I'm done with markets after three years of doing them every weekend. Doesn't help that I live in Houston and its 145 degrees in the shade in February lol. I'm exploring wholesale options and going to things like wedding expos (that are indoors!) And I have my own site, Etsy and Amazon... I love making soap, I just hate selling it retail!!!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Your signature seems to contradict your new direction [emoji106]


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## TBandCW

We've been doing farmers markets and craft fairs for 5 yrs now and make a decent living at it.  We eliminate the bad ones and move on.  We also eliminate the products that don't sell well and add new ones, I do bring my lotions and oils, just don't put them out on the table.  Table real estate is too valuable to put out something that doesn't move fast, but I do have my loyal lotion and oil customers.  

We are now also selling a friends beef jerky at most of our shows and even though the profit margin isn't the same as our homemade items we sell a ton of it!  Diversity is working for us.

Living and selling in a tourist area helps a lot too!  All the backpackers and hikers love beef jerky.


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## cmzaha

TBandCW said:


> We've been doing farmers markets and craft fairs for 5 yrs now and make a decent living at it.  We eliminate the bad ones and move on.  We also eliminate the products that don't sell well and add new ones, I do bring my lotions and oils, just don't put them out on the table.  Table real estate is too valuable to put out something that doesn't move fast, but I do have my loyal lotion and oil customers.
> 
> We are now also selling a friends beef jerky at most of our shows and even though the profit margin isn't the same as our homemade items we sell a ton of it!  Diversity is working for us.
> 
> Living and selling in a tourist area helps a lot too!  All the backpackers and hikers love beef jerky.


I also sell my crochet hats, shawls and in some markets my husbands golf art. Yep diversity is the name of the game when it comes to outdoor markets


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## shoresoap

I agree - you can forget how bad some shows are when there's a gap of time in between. I'm in my 3 rd year of selling soap and learn something each time. My last show (inside during the summer!) I put my $10 bath products in sale for $7 and sold a bunch! I also determined that people like to buy soap that matches their bathrooms. Therefore my pink soaps weren't destined to be sold. I looked on Pinterest for popular bathroom colors (ocean and neutral colors). 

I enjoy selling at craft fairs but also love it when friends spend a bunch at one swoop! I keep notes of each fair I do So I know if I want to it again the next year. I did great at a fair at a distillery this spring after a divastating street fair where I know a lot of people (crazy weather that day!). 

So the moral of my story is; if you enjoy selling in person then do craft fairs. If you don't, focus on online sales and wholesale sales. Happy soaping everyone!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Wholesale is also selling in person- you have to get (and keep) wholesale accounts which means some face-to-face work in many instances


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## Spice

ilovebathing said:


> It's is definitely interesting when I read everyone's post.  When I lived in the Philippines, there were cattle ranchers who would "park" their carts in the middle of our land selling leather materials, and that was without technology.  It was their way of making a living and perhaps also because they can carry everything with them.  So all I can say is, it is definitely something to try and invest in.  I also remembered one important thing, if you plan to do this yourself, it will take lots of time and even more so than a full time job.  If you then decide to have a business partner, make sure this person is someone reliable and willing to handle whatever comes along with the business etc, meeting with other vendors with you.  I had invested on an art bus, a bus that would travel city to city teaching children how to paint or make art.  One day my business partner didn't go with me in dealing with our marketing video guy (who helped us with visual material) and to make the long story short, it was a bad idea to go by myself, hence the unreliable business partner who didn't commit in going with me.  These are just my experiences and hopefully this will give you a sense of what to expect perhaps.





cmzaha said:


> While no one wants to kill someone's dream I will again mention it is hard hard work and not big return when selling soap. If traveling to different cities and venues you are really not spending the time to build up a clientele like you would at a market you attend regularly. You risk only acquiring the customer that buys because it is pretty or smells good and many of those do not purchase again or move on to someone else's soap because it looks pretty or smells good. These people do not realize a difference in quality. Many customers do realize there is good and bad soap or the one's that get hooked on yours and will not even consider buying from another vendor. I have customers that do recognize the difference but it took several years to get to that point. My booth and label is recognized at most markets I attend even if I show up once a year, but this took over 5 yrs to happen. I do not even have a banner and they know who I am, lol, probably the one without a banner . I do make money, although not much now since my parents require full time care. Heck, last weekend I sold over $200 while working on my rental house, my customer came and picked up their products they wanted.  You have to love making soap and love the hard work of attending markets. My hubby and I enjoy meeting people and seeing our vendor friends, but as we are getting older it is getting harder. I carry $2 mil insurance, most markets in our area require $1 mil.
> 
> My daughter originally started this venture with big dreams and I told her she was a few years late. She did make a living for her family, since she did not have to pay rent or house payment, in the beginning but 2 yrs ago the sales started declining so badly she gave up on her end, but still misses it. This was during the economic crash and her husband was out of work. There was just to many now selling handmade and decorative m&p products. Her sales were online and I think it was harder work promoting daily than going to markets.
> 
> Sorry I am rambling so I will go to work now...back to the rental and painting



It is a lot of work! Most soapers don't have a crew to set up shop, which requires loading and unloading car and set up displays. Then there's the making of soaps and things, the set up, the recipe, and the clean up. Plus the packaging/wrapping. And the list goes on. 
It takes a lot of energy to stay positive with people that what 2 bars for 10.00 or buy one get one free. It is a costly art of soap making.
But I love soap making, and I believe, that is what keeps me going. I use all of the bad for good. :bunny:


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