# Determining dilution rates for LS



## Yooper (Jun 12, 2013)

I have Catherine Failor's book, and while I'm not stupid (I hope!) I'm having trouble guessing the dilution rates recommended and how much that actually is.

For example, her chart has "percent actual soap" and "water added per pound of paste".  At 30 percent, she has 16 ounces (1 pound) of water per pound of paste.

In my head, I see one pound of water per pound of paste as a 1:1 dilution, and NOT 30%.  To me, 30% is much closer to 3:1.  

What am I missing here?


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## VanessaP (Jun 12, 2013)

Its taking into consideration the larger amount of liquid you use to make the paste to begin with to end up with a 30% actual soap.

When trying a new formula, I would start with 1:1 and go from there. I made 80% olive oil, 20% cocoa butter, and I think 3:1 dilution isn't quite enough. Most of my fragrances made it so thick that I had to add water to it to even be able to call it liquid again LOL


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## Yooper (Jun 13, 2013)

VanessaP said:


> Its taking into consideration the larger amount of liquid you use to make the paste to begin with to end up with a 30% actual soap.
> 
> When trying a new formula, I would start with 1:1 and go from there. I made 80% olive oil, 20% cocoa butter, and I think 3:1 dilution isn't quite enough. Most of my fragrances made it so thick that I had to add water to it to even be able to call it liquid again LOL



Ah, ok.  Well, back to more dumb questions.  When I make the paste, it's so thick that a spoon will stand up in it.  Not only that, a spoon can get stuck in it!  So I have this assumption that much of the water has been steamed/boiled off.  That's why we weigh the paste.  So, at that point if I weigh the paste, and it's 22 ounces, it seems to me that should be where we start dilution rates.  Or why else weigh the paste at all?  I guess that's the part I don't "get".  

If I start with 16 ounces of oils, and add 6 ounces of glycerine (which I did for my last batch), that is 22 ounces of "stuff" total.  It didn't boil off, and I had 22 ounces of paste.  (Water I realize my boil off/steam/dissipate).  

If I look at her chart, 16 ounces of paste at 30% dilution is 16 ounces of water.  That's 1:1.  I had 22 ounces of paste, so that should be 22 ounces of water?  That isn't right.  I actually used alot more water to get it to dissolve.  

And the recipes don't suggest dilution rates, so that makes it hard for a newb LS maker like me.


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## bodhi (Jun 13, 2013)

I never bothered with Failors dilutions.  They made no sense to me either.  Dont worry, many people say her book is more confusing than not. I think i figured out what she was doing before i tossed it though and i though it was something similar to what vanessa said, but that still didnt make sense, as the paste is soap so who knows what she was talking about.  I agree, that is a 1:1 dilution which in my book is 50%, not 30.  Either way, i usually start at 1:1 and go from there.  I dont think there is an easy way to figure it out because all the oils dilute differently.  If there is, i would like to know too!


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## songwind (Jun 14, 2013)

Yooper said:


> I have Catherine Failor's book, and while I'm not stupid (I hope!) I'm having trouble guessing the dilution rates recommended and how much that actually is.
> 
> For example, her chart has "percent actual soap" and "water added per pound of paste".  At 30 percent, she has 16 ounces (1 pound) of water per pound of paste.
> 
> ...



Actually, 3:1 would be 25% (1 out of 4 parts is soap). So 1:1 would be 50% soap paste. I assume her recipes create a paste that is 40% water.

So, 50% free water, plus 40% of 50% (soap weight) 20% water from paste for 70% of the total weight made of water, and 30% made of soap solids.

16oz water + (6.4oz paste-water + 9.6oz paste-soap-solids) = 32oz total liquid soap.
22.4oz water + 9.6oz soap solids

Does that make any more sense? I'm very good at understanding numbers but not always as good at transferring that understanding to others.


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## Yooper (Jun 15, 2013)

songwind said:


> Actually, 3:1 would be 25% (1 out of 4 parts is soap). So 1:1 would be 50% soap paste. I assume her recipes create a paste that is 40% water.
> 
> So, 50% free water, plus 40% of 50% (soap weight) 20% water from paste for 70% of the total weight made of water, and 30% made of soap solids.
> 
> ...



Yes, I understand what you're saying, thanks!  

The "dilution rate" still doesn't make sense to me, though- as she says it's "paste" dilution, which of course would include any water used from the beginning.  

I think the easiest way for me to do this is to add water 1:1.  Let it dissolve.  If it does and looks good, great.  If not, then add more water until it does dissolve, and then take good notes for the next time.  

I made a very nice liquid castille soap with the video in another thread, using glycerine instead of water for the paste.  It's more of a bastille, though, as it was 13 ounces OO, 1.5 ounces CO and 1.5 ounces castor oil.  I diluted it quite a lot following the directions in the video, like 3:1 (wateraste).  It's a bit thin, but not too thin.  I used it for shampoo AND body wash, and was very pleased with it.   

I do want to do some out of Failor's book now, using more coconut oil.


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## Smee (Jun 25, 2013)

That book had me pretty befuddled, too.  
Not being much of a scientist and barely squeaking through math in school, I just
weigh out a blob of paste, add that same weight in water, then keep adding more
water until it's either dissolved or the kettle is full.   And no, I don't keep track
since like bodhi said, they all dissolve at different rates anyway.
But I do know that the more olive oil in the batch, the more water it takes...LOTS more!
/hope that helps...:mrgreen:


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## SarahTH (Jul 4, 2013)

I am a new newbie  And am no expert on soap making but I do love cooking and have had great success with all sorts of meals.  
I did my first batch of liquid soap last weekend. It made a 4lb batch of paste and I stored half of it in the frig to dilute later when needed.  Not having any idea on the dilution rate I went with a statement I read that it is 2lbs water to 1lb paste.  Probably because I had more of a percentage of olive oil I had to add an extra 10oz over time the next day till all the globs dissolved.   The soap wasn't super watery but I still thickened the 2lbs with almost 1/4 cup of canning salt and 6oz of warm water, I didn't have to add all of this to the pot though.  When I felt the soap pushing back against my stir I stopped adding.


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