# What oil(s) should I add for more slip and silkiness?



## milky (May 29, 2017)

Hi you all! I've been experimenting with different proportions of lard, coconut, olive, and castor oils in my CP goat milk soap. So far the only negative review I've received is that it isn't as "slippery" as the soap my dad is used to. Looked it up and saw that adding avocado oil is good to help with that. Or maybe rice bran oil. Or high oleic sunflower... 

So my question is, what oil(s) should I add to the recipe next? Avocado, RBO, HO sunflower, or a different one? HO canola or PKO? What is the best bang-for-your-buck place to buy the one you suggest? I'm also looking for a cheaper place to buy castor oil since I've been getting the little bottles at Walmart. Thanks!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (May 29, 2017)

What is the rest of your recipe? That night have an impact on the suggestions


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## milky (May 29, 2017)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> What is the rest of your recipe? That night have an impact on the suggestions



The last soap I made contains 55% lard, 22% coconut, 18% olive, 5% castor, all goat milk for the liquid, a 33% lye concentration, and a 5% superfat.

I really don't know what the exact recipe was of the bar that he was referring to but it contained the same ingredients and the order of the oils, by proportion, was the same. Probably the same superfat.


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## anjouwu (May 29, 2017)

I agree with Craig (aka the E.G.) that a recipe would help. 

I do love Avocado, with its relatively high percentage of unsaponifiables, but for "slip" I generally rely on clay (usually either Bentonite or Kaolin) which does the trick. Some people find it overly drying, however.


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## shunt2011 (May 29, 2017)

I would try replacing the olive with avocado and see if that helps. I don't use clay in my soaps as I it too drying. Didn't notice any extra slip but it may be me.


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## milky (May 29, 2017)

anjouwu said:


> I agree with Craig (aka the E.G.) that a recipe would help.
> 
> I do love Avocado, with its relatively high percentage of unsaponifiables, but for "slip" I generally rely on clay (usually either Bentonite or Kaolin) which does the trick. Some people find it overly drying, however.



Thanks, I'd forgotten about clay being good for that. I have bentonite clay but was under the impression that it wasn't the greatest to use in soap. Problem with mixing, I think.. Does it behave well for you?


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## toxikon (May 29, 2017)

There are a few additives that can help create a silky feel.

Tussah silk is one, and clays can help too. A tempered egg yolk can add creaminess, not sure about "slip" though.

I've used 1 tsp bentonite clay PPO with great results.


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## milky (May 29, 2017)

I'm sure the best thing would be for me to try them all out but, you know, instant gratification.. I need to go through again and read everything I can find about the different oil I mentioned. If not slip, I don't know what they might add to or detract from what I've been making. Is it the unsaponifiables in avocado oil that make it more slippery, like how clay works?


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## ngian (May 29, 2017)

Well after many experiments I have a list of things that can make silkier suds. 

Avocado
Macadamia 
Shea Butter
Aloe vera gel (instead of water) 
Oatmeal flour 

Here is one recipe;
Avocado 45%
Coconut 25%
Shea Butter 25%
Castor 5%


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## anjouwu (May 29, 2017)

milky said:


> Thanks, I'd forgotten about clay being good for that. I have bentonite clay but was under the impression that it wasn't the greatest to use in soap. Problem with mixing, I think.. Does it behave well for you?




I've had a few issues, but once I stopped adding it to the lye water and started adding it to the oils directly (and mixing it thoroughly) everything smoothed out (so to speak). Tussah silk, in my experience, did nothing but drain the bank account.


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## BrewerGeorge (May 29, 2017)

I'm guessing that he might be used to detergents and real soap with its accompanying scummy 'squeak' could be described as 'not slick.'  I'd try some chelator like EDTA or sodium citrate before changing oils. Oil differences will be subtle, soap scum is not.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (May 29, 2017)

I was also thinking along those lines - is it just this soap, or lye soaps in general? A chelator might well help


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## earlene (May 29, 2017)

milky said:


> I'm also looking for a cheaper place to buy castor oil since I've been getting the little bottles at Walmart. Thanks!



Where do you live? And do you prefer local stores or online?  Do you have an Amazon Prime account?

In the USA, I have found larger bottles of Castor Oil in some grocery stores (HEB in Texas, for example).  Also the same product is available on Amazon and with an Amazon Prime account delivery is fast and no extra shipping, and although the price is lower per ounce than at the drugstore, it's still not cheap.  The best buy I've found is at Soaper's Choice at $2.67 per pound.  The smallest bottle is 7 pounds at $18.69 plus shipping.  If you want to make a lot of soap, that's a good buy.  But if you only want to make a few small batches of soap, this deal might be a good one.  It's an offer of buy one 8 oz. bottle and no shipping using this code: FREESGD but the offer ends today.


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## DeeAnna (May 29, 2017)

"...A tempered egg yolk can add creaminess..."

I think it does do that, but I don't think it adds slip in the sense that the OP is talking about.


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## Obsidian (May 29, 2017)

I found lard to produce the slickest lather but it can also be the worse for producing soap scum. Using a chelator will definitely help with that.
One of my favorite recipes is 80% lard, 15% coconut and 5% castor with 5% SF. I use citric acid in it, hard, smooth slick bar. It doesn't produce a lot of lather but its a pretty awesome bar. Next time I make it, I will probably add a little KOH to help with lather.


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## lenarenee (May 29, 2017)

Wow...I find any recipe I've ever made to make a slipperier (really? is that spelled right?) bar than any store bought I used - I'm forever dropping them.
Makes me wonder if there's more to what your dad means and it's just hard to explain since he's a non-soap maker.

If your water is even moderately hard I'd think about using a chelator for a couple of reasons; it rinses better, leaves less scum, and sodium citrate and edta help stave of dos. (not sure about citric acid). It may not fix the slippery problem, but I think its a valuable additive regardless.

My favorite recipe is very similar to the one you stated except I rarely use olive oil but use 10 - 20% high oleic sunflower or safflower, almond, or avocado. I love lots of lard, but do find the lather to be "dry" in feel and appearance. The liquid oils fix that. Almond is more expensive, but I think it adds the most benefit.

So many people like to add clay for "slip", but I used to use it make my bars less slippery! Go figure!


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## shunt2011 (May 29, 2017)

I use lard and also add tussah silk and have really slippery bars.


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## Seawolfe (May 29, 2017)

When I want a slippery soap I add clay, but this recipe also makes a slippery soap with fabulous lather, despite the lack of castor oil:
Lard 65%
Coconut oil 15%
Sweet Almond oil 20%
5% superfat AND I used citric acid in the recipe because hard water, so I recalculated the lye to accommodate that. Oh and 1 tsp sugar ppo in the lye water.

It seems like all my soaps with sweet almond oil are a bit slippy now that I think about it.


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## Arimara (May 29, 2017)

While I can use bentonite clay, I prefer kaolin as it is less harsh on the skin. Bentonite can clear my skin faster if I have a breakout but I run a risk of drier skin.

I use Avocado and RBO for extra slip. They have served me fine. Clays can help but I tend to forget about them.


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## Obsidian (May 29, 2017)

I'm not a fan of clay but if I do use it, I very much prefer kaolin. I've been using a salt bar with kaolin in it and the feel of the lather is incredible, really thick and slick, not super fluffy like a regular salt bar.


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## milky (May 30, 2017)

Wow, thanks you all! That was really helpful!
I'm pretty sure the water is hard where my dad lives in Florida. He most certainly has a water softener though. 
Mine is probably the only homemade soap he's tried. Growing up he was always an Irish Spring guy.

Even if hard water wasn't the problem, reducing scum should still be a plus. Do you use sodium citrate and EDTA in the same soap? Do they prevent DOS better together? Actually... I vaguely remember reading a comparison of various ways to prevent DOS and that may or may not have been the winner.. 

I hit up a Piping Rock sale and bought avocado and sweet almond to try, as well as a big jug of castor and some coconut. Saw on the forum that their EO's are scary so I'm really hoping the oils are good quality. Looking forward to trying to feel the difference between them. Would it be worth it to use both in the same soap?? Might do that just to use them up at the same time. 
One of these days I'll give RBO, high oleic sunflower or safflower a try, too.

I'm delighted that bentonite clay is okay to use! Should the superfat be higher if adding it or is it more of a problem with clay residue on the skin that can be drying (and if that's the case then maybe edta would help?)?
So many questions! Here's a bunny:
:bunny:


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## fuzz-juzz (May 30, 2017)

Rice bran oil is great for shiny slippery bars.

And kaolin clay.... I use teaspoon per 1kg of oils and it makes bars amazingly smooth and they glide so nicely over skin.

Low SF also helps, I keep mine at 0% or 1-2%.

Tussah silk made my soaps sticky, didn't like it at all.


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## Susie (May 30, 2017)

I am using all Piping Rock EOs now, and they are wonderful.  Not one problem, whatsoever.

Your dad may not like as much superfat as you do.  I would drop the superfat first before making a lot of changes.

My hubby likes a higher CO bar than I do.  I would try that next.  Just bump the CO to 20-25%. 

Then, he may not like the softer bar that handmade soap gives.  I would try using 1 tsp PPO of salt.  

But do one change, then the other, then the other, so he can tell the difference before doing all of them in one batch.


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## DeeAnna (May 30, 2017)

Use EDTA or sodium citrate, but not both.

https://classicbells.com/soap/citrate.html
https://classicbells.com/soap/EDTA.html


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## Nao (May 30, 2017)

Maybe I missed the train here but I would vote for tallow. When I tried like 25 different bars of 2 month old soap a while ago the tallow one really stood out as slippery to the point it wasn't nice to use. The slipperiness being the reason tallow is popular for shaving soap. Though it seems the tallow needs 2 months to develope the slipperiness since trying it after one month it didn't stand out at all. 

Second slipperiest was rapeseed, which you probably won't want to soap with so maybe something with similar make up of fatty acids but with less likelihood of going rancid. 

I wouldn't recommend avocado oil since it only had a fraction of the slipperiness that the rapeseed had.


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## milky (May 30, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> Use EDTA or sodium citrate, but not both.
> 
> https://classicbells.com/soap/citrate.html
> https://classicbells.com/soap/EDTA.html



Thanks for linking me to that info. I read it a long time ago and definitely needed the refresher. I think the DOS comparison I read was one that concluded EDTA + ROE to be the most successful, as you said there.


Susie, for your husband do you use both higher coconut and lower superfat? I'm scared! lol. Will give it a go though. 

Nao, been wanting to try tallow but keep forgetting about it. It doesn't come up on my shopping radar very often, if ever. Adding it to the list of oils to try next. What do you think of it compared to lard?


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## Susie (May 30, 2017)

Yes, my hubby likes both higher CO, and lower SF.  He also adores menthol soaps.  But, he has oily skin, and is from Alaska, so IDK what your dad would like.  Like I said, try one change at the time.


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## Nao (Jun 4, 2017)

milky said:


> Nao, been wanting to try tallow but keep forgetting about it. It doesn't come up on my shopping radar very often, if ever. Adding it to the list of oils to try next. What do you think of it compared to lard?



The only lard I've been soaping with is old rancid lard I found in my parents basement so I don't know if I'm qualified to answer that really. Lard seems impossible to buy in my country so I don't know if and when will get som fresh to try out.

Either way I didn't pick up on anything special with it and what I've heard from others lard's main contribution to lather is creamy and conditioning, not slippery. I'm sort of surprised that nobody else mentioned tallow. 

"The memory is good, but short" as we say up here, I, myself have a bunch of bones from our own cattle in the freezer but keeps forgetting to render the marrow from them lol.


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