# Adding glycerin and surfactant



## seven (Feb 21, 2014)

my LS is too runny for my taste and i was wondering if i can add glycerin as a thickener? i know xanthan gum is also an option, what would be a better choice?

also, it is pretty limited in the bubble area, and I was wondering if i can add cocamydopropyl betaine to my LS? if so, how should i add it?

TIA


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## lsg (Feb 21, 2014)

Why do you want to add cocamydopropyl betaine to your liquid soap? Is it because you have hard water and are not getting the bubbles you want? Liquid soap never lathers well in our hard water. Instead of adding cocamydopropyl betaine to your LS, use it and another mild surfactant such as Plantapon LGC Sorb to make a body wash or hand wash? There are plenty of recipes at The Herbarie or on Susan's blog. If you just wish to thicken your LS, try adding a thickener such as Crothix liquid.


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## Susie (Feb 21, 2014)

Non-commercial liquid soap will not be as thick or a bubbly as the store bought stuff.  It would require some of those chemicals most of us are trying to avoid to thicken it up and add bubbles.  

However, it DOES clean.  It does bubble, just not as much.  It does works just fine in my soap pumps that are from those store bought products.  And it moisturizes much more than even the uber moisturizing liquid soap I could find on the market.  And my liquid soap is just as thick as Dr. Bronner's.  Which is the closest comparable product I can find.  

Glycerin will thicken it a little.  Key word here is little.  But I don't need thick soap for it to do the job I made it for.


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## FGOriold (Feb 21, 2014)

I have never had glycerin thicken my liquid soap.  I only use HEC to thicken - works every time.  HPMC is another option that many people like, but I prefer HEC.


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## seven (Feb 21, 2014)

lsg said:


> Why do you want to add cocamydopropyl betaine to your liquid soap? Is it because you have hard water and are not getting the bubbles you want? Liquid soap never lathers well in our hard water. Instead of adding cocamydopropyl betaine to your LS, use it and another mild surfactant such as Plantapon LGC Sorb to make a body wash or hand wash? There are plenty of recipes at The Herbarie or on Susan's blog. If you just wish to thicken your LS, try adding a thickener such as Crothix liquid.



this is my 1st time making LS, and to be honest i am quite surprised about its consistency. i guess i'm just used to commercial ones. i am planning on making the LS as a bodywash, and coco betaine is the only surfactant i have. i also have a powdered SLES. i was using it in the shower earlier today and i hated it that there were only lil bubbles  

i did quite a bit of a read at Susan's blog today, and some of the stuff are not available here. i might have to check on the availability of Crothix and Plantapon LGC too.



Susie said:


> Non-commercial liquid soap will not be as thick or a bubbly as the store bought stuff.  It would require some of those chemicals most of us are trying to avoid to thicken it up and add bubbles.
> 
> However, it DOES clean.  It does bubble, just not as much.  It does works just fine in my soap pumps that are from those store bought products.  And it moisturizes much more than even the uber moisturizing liquid soap I could find on the market.  And my liquid soap is just as thick as Dr. Bronner's.  Which is the closest comparable product I can find.
> 
> Glycerin will thicken it a little.  Key word here is little.  But I don't need thick soap for it to do the job I made it for.



I don't need it very thick, just a lil bit thicker. mine is not runny, like water runny, it's just that like i said earlier perhaps i'm just used to the consistency of store bought LS.

I will try adding a dash of glyerin then..



FGOriold said:


> I have never had glycerin thicken my liquid soap.  I only use HEC to thicken - works every time.  HPMC is another option that many people like, but I prefer HEC.



I have to check whether my supplier has HEC or HPMC. the ones i have that can be a candidate as a thickener are glycerin and xanthan gum. so i'm thinking just to use the ones i already have.


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## lsg (Feb 21, 2014)

You might use foamer bottles for your thin liquid soap.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=foamer+bottles

http://www.bulkapothecary.com/conta...-7oz-clear-foamer-bottles-and-foamers-49-set/


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## seven (Feb 21, 2014)

thanks for the links, gonna check 'em out and see whether the local suppliers here have those kinds of bottles.

btw, i forgot to ask... if i were to add glycerin and coco betaine, how do i add it? after dilution once the soap cools down? or still warm? hot?


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## lady-of-4 (Feb 21, 2014)

Glycerin really doesn't thicken.  Have you tried table salt?  I know that doesn't always work either,  but it's worth a shot. 

Coco-betaine is naturally derived,  from coconut oil, if I'm correct.  So it's not as bad as using SLS or its cousins.  You can also try decyl glucoside which is derived from plant sugars. Ingredients to Die For sells this product called Foaming Soy,  which as it says on the name,  is soy based.  I keep that one handy for when I make my bubble bath again,  since we have hard water. Honestly,  your LS is probably too diluted.  I try too keep mine at a 30-40% soap dilution,  depending the recipe.  Rarely do i go less than that. And with this glycerin method batch I just did,  I didn't even need the full dilution amount for 30% recommended by the SBM calculator.  I used half,  40 oz,  and got the perfect consistency,  even when a little salt didn't work to thicken more. The glycerin method is most certainly easier to dilute. 
The consistency of home made LS is something to get used to. So it's just a matter of playing with dilution, which I know is hard to do.


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## seven (Feb 21, 2014)

i didn't use a lot of water as far as i can remember. 1.5 x paste weight was what i used. i've read somewhere that you can also do the evaporation method. that is heat the diluted soap to let the water evaporate till you get the right consistency that you're after.

i've read salt can distract with the lather. mine is already poor in the bubble area (only 15% castor. i think next time i'm gonna use more). don't want to risk it much further.


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## lady-of-4 (Feb 21, 2014)

seven said:


> i didn't use a lot of water as far as i can remember. 1.5 x paste weight was what i used. i've read somewhere that you can also do the evaporation method. that is heat the diluted soap to let the water evaporate till you get the right consistency that you're after.
> 
> i've read salt can distract with the lather. mine is already poor in the bubble area (only 15% castor. i think next time i'm gonna use more). don't want to risk it much further.



That's true.  I read elsewhere in the forum that adding salt cuts lather... initially.  That thread ended saying that after a bit of sequester time,  the bubbles came back in full force. You can most certainly do the evaporation method.  I forgot about that,  and it's my normal method so I don't have to use additives to manipulate the soap.  It's just so much work getting the right temp where water cooks off but keeping the soap from bubbling over. Plus stirring in any skin that forms on the top.  I've spent 3 days,  4 hours each,  with that method.  Then again,  I'm neurotic so... might not take you as long.  Just keep some Isopropyl alcohol and a small spritz bottle handy to blast foam that will form while doing this.


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## lsg (Feb 21, 2014)

Depending on your recipe, I have read that salt doesn't do well with a high coconut oil recipe, but it does better with a high olive oil content.


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## Lindy (Mar 2, 2014)

Guar Gum works really well and you can add it with the soap warm.  It doesn't take a lot so use with a light hand.  As for the surfactant add it when the soap is warm as well.....


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