# oil substitutions for soap making



## reflection (Jul 21, 2016)

i thought it'd be good to have one thread discussing substitutions for various oils, specifically for soap making, as i keep seeing mention of them online and jotting them down & can't remember where i jotted them. i know some don't use animal fats, others don't use palm, some have allergies and of course cost considerations. 

here are a couple i've heard:

Coconut Oil for Palm Kernel Oil

Canola Oil for Olive Oil 

questions: is there a sub for Castor Oil? can butters replace things like lard or tallow? 

if you want to add substitutions for additives that is cool too. (e.g. subs for beeswax for the vegans).


----------



## earlene (Jul 22, 2016)

I don't know if others have found this to be the case, but I found sesame oil alone produces a lot of bubbles, so I use it for castor sometimes.  Or adding anything with sugars can increase bubbles.  Egg yolk boosts bubbles, too.  (Just run the faucet into a bowl after beating eggs for an omelet and see all the bubbles.)

Rice bran oil for olive oil.


----------



## TheDragonGirl (Jul 22, 2016)

Lard/Tallow for Palm

Sunflower for Olive

As far as I know castor is actually a unique oil, and nothing else behaves exactly like it, it doesn't really make more bubbles, it makes the bubbles stick around longer.


----------



## topofmurrayhill (Jul 22, 2016)

reflection said:


> i thought it'd be good to have one thread discussing substitutions for various oils, specifically for soap making, as i keep seeing mention of them online and jotting them down & can't remember where i jotted them. i know some don't use animal fats, others don't use palm, some have allergies and of course cost considerations.



There are categories of oils based on what fatty acids they contribute to the soap. Oils within a category can substitute for each other. With more experience you can even learn to adjust the amounts so that alternative recipes are more similar to each other, for instance by looking at the fatty acid profile of a recipe in Soapcalc.

Here is more info about what oils fall into the various categories:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=595379&postcount=18


----------



## lsg (Jul 22, 2016)

I have never heard of a good substitute for Castor oil.  I do not use canola oil because it is prone to rancidity and the soap is prone to DOS.  High oleic rice bran oil is a good sub for olive oil.  I order my rice bran oil in bulk from Riceland.


----------



## dixiedragon (Jul 22, 2016)

I don't consider canola a substitute for - well - anything in soap. IMO - cheap filler oil. It goes rancid more quickly and it makes a tacky feeling soap.

Lard, tallow and palm are fairly interchangeable.
If you want to use a butter instead of one of those, try shea butter at 50%, but drop your superfat to 2%. I've got a batch of that curing now and I'm eager to try it.
Substitute SOME olive for sunflower. But not all.
Substitute SOME olive for rice bran. But not all. IMO, these three - rice bran, sunflower and olive, work together. I haven't done a blind test, though.


----------



## Arimara (Jul 22, 2016)

Babassu is a nice but pricey sub for coconut oil and I really think it's more gentle too. Besides using avocado oil in place of olive oil sometimes, especially when I don't have olive oil on hand, I tend only to use substitutions for when I don't want a cleansing factor but still want a hard bar in 12 weeks.


----------



## Cindy2428 (Jul 22, 2016)

Candelilla wax vegan sub for bees wax


----------



## dixiedragon (Jul 22, 2016)

Sounds like you are looking for some kind of "master list". That's not really possible. The oils people choose for their soaps are based on lots of things - cost, availability, ethical/cultural/religious considerations (vegan, palm-free, no lard, etc), water (water affects how soap performs) and finally their personal preference. 

You probably won't find one single substitution that will get universal approval. For example, IMO, a soap that is 50% palm doesn't feel as good as 50% lard. Maybe it's my skin, maybe it's my water, maybe it's all in my head. A lot of us think castor is crucial. But quite a few of us are "meh. I use sugar and it's fine". Some people like avocado oil in their soaps. IMO, it's wasted in soap but lovely in any kind of leave on product.

I do like to Google "properties of soap making oils" and read the various lists. It gives me ideas. But those are only IDEAS and guidelines.


----------



## reflection (Jul 22, 2016)

dixiedragon said:


> Sounds like you are looking for some kind of "master list". That's not really possible. The oils people choose for their soaps are based on lots of things - cost, availability, ethical/cultural/religious considerations (vegan, palm-free, no lard, etc), water (water affects how soap performs) and finally their personal preference.



i get what you're saying. how about rough guidelines, then.  it just helps to know what the options are & i thought it might be helpful to other newbies. 

i wouldn't use canola oil myself but thought i'd post it as i read the info. i luv olive oil.



> I do like to Google "properties of soap making oils" and read the various lists. It gives me ideas. But those are only IDEAS and guidelines.


i'll keep that in mind. i found a couple great lists the other day:

qualities of soap making oils
properties of soap making oils


----------



## Arimara (Jul 22, 2016)

dixiedragon said:


> Sounds like you are looking for some kind of "master list". That's not really possible. The oils people choose for their soaps are based on lots of things - cost, availability, ethical/cultural/religious considerations (vegan, palm-free, no lard, etc), water (water affects how soap performs) and finally their personal preference.
> 
> You probably won't find one single substitution that will get universal approval. For example, IMO, a soap that is 50% palm doesn't feel as good as 50% lard. Maybe it's my skin, maybe it's my water, maybe it's all in my head. A lot of us think castor is crucial. But quite a few of us are "meh. I use sugar and it's fine". Some people like avocado oil in their soaps. IMO, it's wasted in soap but lovely in any kind of leave on product.
> 
> I do like to Google "properties of soap making oils" and read the various lists. It gives me ideas. But those are only IDEAS and guidelines.



Are ya sure 'bout that? I've made an 100% avocado oil soap and it feels nothing like a castile. I've found that it adds a nice slickness so to speak, especially when coupled with olive oil. :mrgreen: But I can't say I don't agree with you about the leave-on products. my recent batches of lotions are fantastic (I finally found a recipe to use and it uses avocado oil). Too bad I can't buy any more cetearyl alcohol for a while.


----------



## snappyllama (Jul 23, 2016)

For me:

Olive sometimes gets subbed with Hazelnut or Avocado
Coconut is normally split with Palm Kernel Flakes since they play really well together
Lard could be subbed with tallow or palm - but why? It's too lovely in soap to fiddle with...
Castor is a unique snowflake

If I plan on using Pumpkin Seed Oil, I borrow from my Olive Oil portion but still put in some Olive Oil since I watch my fatty acid profile on pumpkin. I did the same for using Hemp, but had DOS even watching my fatty acid so just don't use it anymore.

I use milks in almost all my soap and sub in Coconut Milk for Goat Milk if I'm making something vegan OR in salt bars (just like to stick with a coconut theme on those + the lighter lather boost goes nicely imho). Sometimes I'll combine them in the regular recipe depending on the lather I want. I keep meaning to try almond milk too. I do not sub in cow's milk/cream as my nose picks up on the butyric acid - blech in my recipe.

I use butters fairly often but consider each pretty distinct. I normally reach for Shea since saponified Mango feels harsh to me (love it in B&B though). Cocoa Butter gives my primary recipe a texture I don't care for though I do have a vegan recipe where that texture works well. I'm planning on trialing more butters in the future for grins.


----------



## reflection (Jul 23, 2016)

guys, this thread is super helpful. 



snappyllama said:


> I use milks in almost all my soap and sub in Coconut Milk for Goat Milk if I'm making something vegan OR in salt bars (just like to stick with a coconut theme on those + the lighter lather boost goes nicely imho).



oooh, coconut milk in soap. that sounds amazing. once i get a few batches of soap down i'd like to try a milk soap. i didn't realize people used coconut milk. i have a hair conditioner with it that i buy and it is so rich & creamy.


----------



## Susie (Jul 23, 2016)

There is no substitute for personal experience.  None.  We can tell you all day that we substitute this for that, but until you try it yourself, you just don't know that YOU like what it brings to the soap.  The best idea is to start with a simple 3 or 4 oil soap and go from there.  Castile (100% Olive Oil) takes 6-12 months to cure, so I do not recommend it for a newbie that needs to learn the properties of the oils.


----------



## snappyllama (Jul 23, 2016)

reflection said:


> guys, this thread is super helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> oooh, coconut milk in soap. that sounds amazing. once i get a few batches of soap down i'd like to try a milk soap. i didn't realize people used coconut milk. i have a hair conditioner with it that i buy and it is so rich & creamy.



It gives more bubbles just like with goat milk, but I think they are a little fluffier/less dense than goat milk. You can either use canned coconut milk or use coconut milk powder which is easier and goes a long way. 

When you get ready to try it, let us know... we can give tips on successfully using milks in soap.


----------



## dixiedragon (Jul 23, 2016)

IMO, coconut milk is WAY easier than animal milk.


----------



## Steve85569 (Jul 23, 2016)

dixiedragon said:


> IMO, coconut milk is WAY easier than animal milk.


Yup. That make two of us.

I know it's redundant but:
ALWAYS run any change in a recipe through a lye calculator since oils all have different SAP values. 
I have a list somewhere that I think I got here. It may have been the link that TOMH put up earlier in this thread...


----------



## Arimara (Jul 23, 2016)

dixiedragon said:


> IMO, coconut milk is WAY easier than animal milk.



Agreed. I just can't use it since my daughter has tree nut allergies. The bars I have have to be used up ASAP.


----------



## reflection (Jul 23, 2016)

Arimara said:


> Agreed. I just can't use it since my daughter has tree nut allergies. The bars I have have to be used up ASAP.



ah, that's a bummer. allergies are no fun.



topofmurrayhill said:


> There are categories of oils based on what fatty acids they contribute to the soap. Oils within a category can substitute for each other. With more experience you can even learn to adjust the amounts so that alternative recipes are more similar to each other, for instance by looking at the fatty acid profile of a recipe in Soapcalc.
> 
> Here is more info about what oils fall into the various categories:
> 
> A question about oils



i'm bringing your post over to this thread in case anyone wants to read it hear as it's really good:



topofmurrayhill said:


> Oils and Fatty Acids 101
> 
> As you read this post, look at the fatty acid numbers in Soapcalc for the various oils, so you can see what I'm talking about.
> 
> ...


----------



## cmzaha (Jul 23, 2016)

I am the oddball that happens to like the feel of Canola Oil  in soap. Until recently I did not use Canola HO, but do now. I have never had dos even when using regular canola oil. My percentage is usually around 20% and I do not consider it a cheap filler oil. I personally dislike high Olive Oil soaps (>25%). I really think dos has a lot to do with the recipe used.


----------



## dixiedragon (Jul 24, 2016)

reflection said:


> ah, that's a bummer. allergies are no fun.



Ah. That is a bummer! I have wondered about soaping with things like rice milk, oat milk, flax milk, etc. Might be interesting! And since you aren't drinking it, you can make it pretty cheaply since you aren't worried about it separating or being lumpy.


----------



## topofmurrayhill (Jul 24, 2016)

It's never been clear to me what a 'cheap filler oil' is. The most useful soaping oils are pretty common, and usefulness doesn't correlate well with price. The qualities of soap come from the sum and balance of all the oils. I don't think I can take any recipe I've made and point to what is the filler part of it.

Fillers in soap are a real subject, especially going back in time, but that's something different.


----------



## reflection (Jul 24, 2016)

topofmurrayhill said:


> It's never been clear to me what a 'cheap filler oil' is. The most useful soaping oils are pretty common, and usefulness doesn't correlate well with price. The qualities of soap come from the sum and balance of all the oils.



it's great to hear that some of the most useful soaping oils are the most common and not expensive. it's also good we have so many options to choose from with all our different preferences that dixie mentioned.

this brings up something i was wondering for the lard lovers. do you love the lard mostly because of it's qualities for soap or did you start using it to avoid using palm oil or is it price or a combination of the above reasons? i ask because i was surprised to see so many here recommend lard and am wondering why it is such a favorite. i will probably try it at some point but right now i'm loving shea butter and want to try some of the other butters in my homemade concoctions.


----------



## topofmurrayhill (Jul 24, 2016)

reflection said:


> this brings up something i was wondering for the lard lovers. do you love the lard mostly because of it's qualities for soap or did you start using it to avoid using palm oil or is it price or a combination of the above reasons? i ask because i was surprised to see so many here recommend lard and am wondering why it is such a favorite. i will probably try it at some point but right now i'm loving shea butter and want to try some of the other butters in my homemade concoctions.



It's a current fad on the board. These things can come and go. At times there has been some resistance to animal fats and more recently resistance to palm oil. But it's a combination of reasons, including the fact that there are some simple lard recipes that make very good soap. Lard can be an extremely variable product depending on how it's manufactured, so some of us have discovered samples that can be very prone to DOS.


----------



## snappyllama (Jul 24, 2016)

reflection said:


> it's great to hear that some of the most useful soaping oils are the most common and not expensive. it's also good we have so many options to choose from with all our different preferences that dixie mentioned.
> 
> this brings up something i was wondering for the lard lovers. do you love the lard mostly because of it's qualities for soap or did you start using it to avoid using palm oil or is it price or a combination of the above reasons? i ask because i was surprised to see so many here recommend lard and am wondering why it is such a favorite. i will probably try it at some point but right now i'm loving shea butter and want to try some of the other butters in my homemade concoctions.



I really like the way my high lard soaps perform... 50%-60%. The lather is luscious feeling... creamy and lotiony.

Palm just doesn't feel the same to me (plus there's the sustainability-thing). Tallow is a close contender, but I end up trying to tweak my recipe to get it more lardy-feeling. 

I'm just a hobbyist so keeping costs down isn't really a determining factor... within reason.


----------



## Cindy2428 (Jul 24, 2016)

Lard just makes great soap. When I started, there was no way I was going to put "piggy" on my body or horrors! my face. Then the lard "enablers" here made me curious. Loved it, and my favorite bars to date have lard in them. No fad - once you try it you understand why.


----------



## Arimara (Jul 24, 2016)

reflection said:


> it's great to hear that some of the most useful soaping oils are the most common and not expensive. it's also good we have so many options to choose from with all our different preferences that dixie mentioned.
> 
> this brings up something i was wondering for the lard lovers. do you love the lard mostly because of it's qualities for soap or did you start using it to avoid using palm oil or is it price or a combination of the above reasons? i ask because i was surprised to see so many here recommend lard and am wondering why it is such a favorite. i will probably try it at some point but right now i'm loving shea butter and want to try some of the other butters in my homemade concoctions.



I'm more of a tallow gal, especially since my pork intolerances even affect my skin(whyyyy!:cry. A lardy soap really feels nice and it's a touch more gentle than palm and tallow to me. The only thing I hate about the lard I've used is that I get that piggy smell after 6 weeks curing and I have to hold on to it longer to let the smell cure out. So, if you get interested, try some lard out.

For the record, I don't mind palm I just hate how waxy it can get past 40%. I'm also too lazy to order it now.


----------



## reflection (Jul 25, 2016)

Cindy2428 said:


> Lard just makes great soap. When I started, there was no way I was going to put "piggy" on my body or horrors! my face. Then the lard "enablers" here made me curious. Loved it, and my favorite bars to date have lard in them. No fad - once you try it you understand why.



too funny. i am fully expecting this forum to create a bacon soap if there isn't one yet.

i actually do use a lard soap on my face for a skin condition. it helps some but i decided it's too expensive to use all over. it's really simple and i like it well enough. i just looked it up and it is lard, lye & water. that's it! didn't realize that is even possible. i'm sure with some other oils a lard soap would probably be a lot nicer. i also have used a lard laundry bar for making laundry soap. i thought i was buying coconut but it's lard. love homemade laundry powder but i'll do coconut next time just to compare. by then i'll hopefully make my own.  

i just realized the 3 soaps i buy are all 100% of the oils: the lard face one, kirk's 100% coconut castile, and a true olive oil castile albeit a cheapy one. i can't afford to buy expensive soaps retail but i can afford to make expensive soaps.

the soap i just loved was a burt's bees honey & shea butter soap that is now discontinued. i recently wrote down the ingredients and will try to make something similar. actually, the one recipe i am planning with CO/OO/Shea may be somewhat similar. i have a feeling i'll be a butters girl.

ok, back to researching the remaining supplies i need.


----------



## ngian (Jul 25, 2016)

snappyllama said:


> I really like the way my high lard soaps perform... 50%-60%. The lather is luscious feeling... creamy and lotiony.
> 
> Palm just doesn't feel the same to me (plus there's the sustainability-thing). Tallow is a close contender, but I end up trying to tweak my recipe to get it more lardy-feeling.



Well the description you give somehow can be "decoded" by looking at their fatty acids profiles.

Palm is somehow a balance between hard (palmitic/stearic) and soft (oleic/Linoleic) FAs (49% - 49% based on soapcalc) while Lard has less hard and more soft FAs (41%-52%) giving a little more of that known snotty (silky) feeling in the final soap that one can get more intensive from olive oil alone.

That balance in Lard also makes it a little less prone to fast tracing compared to palm, as the bigger % of oleic FA it has, takes a little longer for it to reach trace.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jul 25, 2016)

Again, I find the use of the word "fad" to be borderline offensive. I use lard because it is a very good soaping oil. I've used palm and prefer the feeling from lard. To say that it is a fad is akin to saying that using coconut is a fad - there are alternatives, but the majority of people use it because of the oil itself rather than any particular fashion of the season. To say it is a fad is to suggest something else will take the place of lard in my recipes and as yet I don't see anything that would do that. 

Now, lard may or may not wax or wane in general popularity here as different people join or leave, but that is different from a fad, as the lard lovers will still be loving lard, just no longer the majority on the boards


----------



## reflection (Jul 25, 2016)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Again, I find the use of the word "fad" to be borderline offensive. I use lard because it is a very good soaping oil. I've used palm and prefer the feeling from lard. To say that it is a fad is akin to saying that using coconut is a fad - there are alternatives, but the majority of people use it because of the oil itself rather than any particular fashion of the season. To say it is a fad is to suggest something else will take the place of lard in my recipes and as yet I don't see anything that would do that.
> 
> Now, lard may or may not wax or wane in general popularity here as different people join or leave, but that is different from a fad, as the lard lovers will still be loving lard, just no longer the majority on the boards



maybe "trend" is a better word to use?  i do think all the oils are perfectly fine but was just surprised so many use lard due to many people avoiding animal fats these days.


----------



## topofmurrayhill (Jul 25, 2016)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Again, I find the use of the word "fad" to be borderline offensive. I use lard because it is a very good soaping oil. I've used palm and prefer the feeling from lard. To say that it is a fad is akin to saying that using coconut is a fad - there are alternatives, but the majority of people use it because of the oil itself rather than any particular fashion of the season. To say it is a fad is to suggest something else will take the place of lard in my recipes and as yet I don't see anything that would do that.
> 
> Now, lard may or may not wax or wane in general popularity here as different people join or leave, but that is different from a fad, as the lard lovers will still be loving lard, just no longer the majority on the boards



I stand by my post 110%.

The credit I gave to the reason people like lard is quite sufficient. As you acknowledge, interest on SMF could wax and wane. That's why I called it "a current fad on this board." What people do after they leave here is speculative. I personally speculate that if carebear (Carol Grant) and others were still soaping they would still be here. But it's probably true that lard is popular with any 125 year-olds still soaping.

Is there a noticeable interest in lard beyond what has spread among several individuals here? Questionable. Nobody sells lard except Soaper's Choice. Nobody talks much about lard outside of SMF. Even here, most people either make lard soap for their own use, or they sell it in places where people are familiar with raising animals in a sensible manner and rendering fat.

It's only in the past several years that people have seriously weighed animal fat vs. palm oil. That's a tough one too. The vast majority of commercial lard comes from pigs who spend the 6 months of their short, miserable lives in a crate they can't turn around it. Not clear which is the socially responsible choice.

Virtually no oils substitute directly for each other. If you change the oil you have to change the recipe. Taking that into account, give me your favorite lard soap and I can make it with vegetable oil. Lard is totally replaceable with oils that are rarely DOS bombs, as previously described. Coconut and PKO aren't replaceable because alternatives are practically the same and/or way more rare and expensive.

To sum up, crafters used lard years before you made your first soap and have always known the qualities it contributed to soap. I ordered my first 50 lb cube of lard from SC before ANY of the lardinators here ever picked up a stick blender. Interest in lard has varied for a number of perfectly supportable reasons. If you think my assessment is wrong, let's re-assess around 2028 or so.


----------



## earlene (Jul 25, 2016)

topofmurrayhill said:


> Lard can be an extremely variable product depending on how it's manufactured, so some of us have discovered samples that can be very prone to DOS.



Would you recommend using ROE with lard?  



topofmurrayhill said:


> Nobody sells lard except Soaper's Choice.



When you say 'nobody sells lard except..' you are referring to soapmaking suppliers, not the regular grocery stores where it is fairly easy to find, right?  

Someone mentioned lard being expensive. I find it to be quite inexpensive. (Or maybe I misread that.)  I have only used it recently to see how it soaps and for some of my non-vegetarian family to use.  I am not yet sure if I will continue to use it or not, as I don't much like the smell.  But I am curious about the DOS experience and if I should add ROE when using lard, which I buy from the grocery store.


----------



## topofmurrayhill (Jul 25, 2016)

earlene said:


> Would you recommend using ROE with lard?
> 
> When you say 'nobody sells lard except..' you are referring to soapmaking suppliers, not the regular grocery stores where it is fairly easy to find, right?
> 
> Someone mentioned lard being expensive. I find it to be quite inexpensive. (Or maybe I misread that.)  I have only used it recently to see how it soaps and for some of my non-vegetarian family to use.  I am not yet sure if I will continue to use it or not, as I don't much like the smell.  But I am curious about the DOS experience and if I should add ROE when using lard, which I buy from the grocery store.



People have had different experiences, but from the sum total of evidence it's probably a good idea to use ROE or some stabilizer system with lard.

Most oils will create soap that's stable for some reasonable time without stabilizers. Some people never use them at all. I tried Fannie and Flo leaf lard and had the worst DOS experience in all my years of soaping, though it looked and smelled fine when I made the batch. I made the identical recipe with lard from a different source and got some spots in a comparable time frame, but it wasn't as bad. cmzaha has a thread about her DOS experiences with lard. I didn't know what to think of it until it happened to me.

I used different lard in smaller quantities in the past and made soap that lasted a good 6 or 7 years before showing signs of age. I guess there are a number of factors that can come into play. But if we were talking palm oil this would definitely not come up as an issue.

If I had to guess, I'd speculate that using locally or artisanally rendered lard is russian roulette, and that larger commercial brands that are stabilized and hydrogenated are the safest bet. You could also order those big cubes from SC. The smaller size seems to be a different product; it's runny and probably not hydrogenated.

Yep, grocery stores have lard. They also have olive oil. Soap suppliers all have olive oil too. Hardly any have lard.


----------



## Susie (Jul 25, 2016)

earlene said:


> Would you recommend using ROE with lard?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No need to add ROE to commercially produced lard that has BHT in it.


----------



## reflection (Jul 25, 2016)

earlene said:


> Would you recommend using ROE with lard?



fish eggs?! you soapers put fish eggs in your soap?


----------



## topofmurrayhill (Jul 25, 2016)

Susie said:


> No need to add ROE to commercially produced lard that has BHT in it.



That sounds reasonable, but how were you able to come to the conclusion when Cmzaha got DOS with various lards, including commercial brands that had one of the usual stabilizer cocktails like BHT/citric?


----------



## lsg (Jul 25, 2016)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Now, lard may or may not wax or wane in general popularity here as different people join or leave, but that is different from a fad, as the lard lovers will still be loving lard, just no longer the majority on the boards



I agree.  Lard and tallow have been used throughout the ages since soap making began.  I don't think that either is a passing fad.


----------



## Arimara (Jul 25, 2016)

reflection said:


> maybe "trend" is a better word to use?  i do think all the oils are perfectly fine but was just surprised so many use lard due to many people avoiding animal fats these days.



People's beliefs aside, some of that is due to advertisement and marketing (ie animal fats are inferior) and some due to propaganda (think overly imposing vegan movements and animal rightist groups). I'm all for the use of animal fats in soap as it is used for a better purpose than attracting pets to cheap junk pet food with "meat" in it. It's using up a by-product and many people have benefited from it.


----------



## reflection (Jul 25, 2016)

i didn't mean to start a controversy. my apology everyone.


----------



## cmzaha (Jul 25, 2016)

reflection said:


> fish eggs?! you soapers put fish eggs in your soap?


ROE is Rosemary Oleoresin Extract. http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/products/rosemary-oleoresin-extract-roe.aspx

I have only stopped the dos problem with the lard I use from Smart & Final by adding in .1% extra BHT. I actually am slowly going back to using Palm Oil, which I purchase from Smart & Final as Palm Shortening. No DOS problems with it


----------



## Arimara (Jul 25, 2016)

reflection said:


> i didn't mean to start a controversy. my apology everyone.



All you did was ask an innocent question. No apology will be accepted at this time.



cmzaha said:


> ROE is Rosemary Oleoresin Extract. http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/products/rosemary-oleoresin-extract-roe.aspx
> 
> I have only stopped the dos problem with the lard I use from Smart & Final by adding in .1% extra BHT. I actually am slowly going back to using Palm Oil, which I purchase from Smart & Final as Palm Shortening. No DOS problems with it



I thought she made a funny.


----------



## topofmurrayhill (Jul 25, 2016)

reflection said:


> fish eggs?! you soapers put fish eggs in your soap?



Yes the controversy is ikura versus tobiko.


----------



## lsg (Jul 25, 2016)

reflection said:


> i didn't mean to start a controversy. my apology everyone.


Your question was a good one, no need to apologize.  Courtesy costs nothing and goes a long way in keeping the forum user friendly.  It is when someone starts pontificating that most of us get riled.:mrgreen:


----------



## reflection (Jul 25, 2016)

Arimara said:


> All you did was ask an innocent question. No apology will be accepted at this time.


you're sweet 





> I thought she made a funny.


for the life of me i couldn't think what ROE stood for & was too lazy to look it up. i did finally remember.



topofmurrayhill said:


> Yes the controversy is ikura versus tobiko.


mmm, japanese food. sushi, home style, it's all tasty.


----------



## HoliHealerz (Feb 19, 2022)

earlene said:


> I don't know if others have found this to be the case, but I found sesame oil alone produces a lot of bubbles, so I use it for castor sometimes.  Or adding anything with sugars can increase bubbles.  Egg yolk boosts bubbles, too.  (Just run the faucet into a bowl after beating eggs for an omelet and see all the bubbles.)
> 
> Rice bran oil for olive oil.


Agreed on any kind of sugars.  I use brown or white or molasses (date).  In the beginning I didnt even know about all the soap /oil properties, only skin so I didnt use castor at all, or coconut or olive.  The soap had lather but not a bubble bath full but the soap was mediocre cleansing and what people said was moisturizing but we know its sort of conditioning.  I will stand by tallow in my region as the foundational fat used and all other oils are additionals for antiox, vit E,  but then no ricinoleic content so I use castor for now.  What about glycerine? Can we get away without it and sub it in LS dilution?  Great thread, thank you for opening it to the one who did.



snappyllama said:


> It gives more bubbles just like with goat milk, but I think they are a little fluffier/less dense than goat milk. You can either use canned coconut milk or use coconut milk powder which is easier and goes a long way.
> 
> When you get ready to try it, let us know... we can give tips on successfully using milks in soap.


So we can use coconut milk instead of coconut oil to increase coconut properties without needing to use the oil?
Thank you for all your useful advice and information.


----------



## Relle (Feb 19, 2022)

HoliHealerz said:


> So we can use coconut milk instead of coconut oil to increase coconut properties without needing to use the oil?
> Thank you for all your useful advice and information.


Snappy hasn't been here for nearly 2 yrs, so it's not likely you will get a answer to your question from them. This thread is over 5 yrs old, not everyone is still around from old posts.


----------



## HoliHealerz (Feb 19, 2022)

Relle said:


> Snappy hasn't been here for nearly 2 yrs, so it's not likely you will get a answer to your question from them. This thread is over 5 yrs old, not everyone is still around from old posts.


I am an expert in questioning old threads.thank you.


----------



## Relle (Feb 19, 2022)

HoliHealerz said:


> I am an expert in questioning old threads.thank you.


The top left hand side over the avatar gives you the date on each post.


----------

