# Essential oil with human pheromones?



## BroknArrw (Feb 6, 2018)

So was turned into the thought of soap that would attract women. Use of pheromones. I know big companies do it. 
So I find something saying it has essential oil and human Pheromones; it use is a cologne. That suggest it is skin safe; opinions of trying it in soap?


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## shunt2011 (Feb 6, 2018)

Adding anything with alcohol will give you fits.  And there's no guarantee the scent would survive in soap either.


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## BroknArrw (Feb 6, 2018)

It's ingredients say essential oil and human Pheromones


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## DeeAnna (Feb 6, 2018)

A cologne by the definition of the word is not pure fragrance; the scent blend is diluted and that usually means dilution with alcohol. Also it's not safe to use essential oils neat (undiluted) on the skin, so that's another argument for the product being diluted.


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## lsg (Feb 6, 2018)

Real musk contains pheromones, but it is a rare substance and causes predation of an endangered species.


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## earlene (Feb 6, 2018)

Okay, here is a link to one such product.  That link even shows the ingredient list. 

*The first & main ingredient is DPG *- Dipropylene Glycol (commonly used in incense making or to cut fragrances to make them skin safe - Bramble Berry)  ( solvent of choice for fragrance applications due to its low odor, low toxicity and low skin irritation potential. - LotionCrafter)  *Botanical Name:  *Dipropylene Glycol Monomethyl Ether 


*Next is  SD40 ALC *- I think this is denatured alcohol, but a chemist or someone with more knowledge may correct me if I am wrong.

*The final 3 ingredients* on the list, and therefore lowest in actual content of the product are pheromones, so it makes me wonder how much of the actual pheromones are actually in the product.  Also are they natural or synthetic.  But for me it is moot, as I am not going to purchase.

What I conclude from this is that there is a high alcohol content. 

But that's not even the issue.  The question was would they 'work' in soap?  More to the point, would they survive the lye intact?  Doubtful.  What does survive lye intact and unchanged?

Even if they did, does one lather soap on the skin and just leave it there?  No, it is a wash-off product!


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## BroknArrw (Feb 6, 2018)

Great information. Hot Process it survives the lye since its added before it is put in the mold, but if there is alcohol then it couldn't be cooked out at that point.
Nice to have the forum too ask these things


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## earlene (Feb 6, 2018)

Okay, adding to HP after the cook would help prevent lye completely altering the pheromones, sure.  But what remaining invisible chemical interactions/reactions/recombinations continue to occur as the soap cures or sits around exposed the the air not being used?  We know that they do occur and that the crystalline structure within the soap is developing during this process.  So what happens to the pheromones within this process?  We don't really know, personally, but it would certainly seem some restructuring could occur.  Also during the cure, evaporation of water occurs and as it migrates out of the soap, so also will some of the water that is in the alcohol.

Still, I have to ask: How does one attract another person by using a wash-off product, other than by getting clean?  Sure sometimes there is a bit of lingering scent with really strong fragrances, and perhaps that can occur with pheromones.  I don't know; maybe it would; maybe it wouldn't.


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## BroknArrw (Feb 6, 2018)

When you use your soap; do you keep the fragrance after you rinsed? I know my rose scent stays with me on hot days.


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## earlene (Feb 6, 2018)

BroknArrw said:


> When you use your soap; do you keep the fragrance after you rinsed? I know my rose scent stays with me on hot days.



Some are stronger and do remain on my skin; many do not.


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## BroknArrw (Feb 6, 2018)

I have no idea how pheromones would work but do know they have mass produced in soaps....I'd imagine HP would keep more pheromones then would mass produced soaps


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## earlene (Feb 6, 2018)

Just because it's mass produced doesn't mean it works.  Just look at the antibacterial soap trend.  Years of mass produced OTC antibacterial soaps and the FDA has ruled they cannot be produced in the US anymore because there was no supporting evidence.  And also because the soap companies who made them could not prove the safety of the antibacterial additives.  

As for pheromones in soap being effective at attracting a person who would not otherwise be attracted, I shall remain skeptical.


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## lmosca (Feb 7, 2018)

The evidence for the efficacy of pheromones on humans is only speculative and controversial.
There are no peer-reviewed scientific studies, so I would treat pheromones just as I would treat any other snake oil.

Chemically, of the 5 axillary putative pheromones (androstadienone, androstenol, androstenone, androsterone, androstadienol) only 2 (androstenol and androstadienol) will survive the saponification. Of the other putative pheromones (mainly short-chain fatty acids) none survives saponification.

This is only in theory. There is no evidence that our vomeronasal organ (the organ responsible for pheromones detection) is actually functional, if existing at all. The part of our DNA that encodes for its functionality is actually inactive (while it is active for the rest of the mammals). 

So far, only one test has a scientific base, though not properly understood, and heavily criticized, and that is the McClintock effect (or period synchronization between women), which might (or might not) be related to pheromones.

For the rest, label appeal always works!

L.


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## dibbles (Feb 7, 2018)

I admit to knowing nothing about this, but I keep wondering - how are human pheromones collected anyway?


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## earlene (Feb 7, 2018)

lmosca said:


> For the rest, label appeal always works!
> 
> L.



Yes, label appeal is probably the only reason those soaps sell, IMO.  Or wishful thinking.  Or just because it's a novelty.  

To the OP: As much as label appeals to the buyer or even the soapmaker, it's still not going to have any effect on the stranger on the street.


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## lmosca (Feb 8, 2018)

dibbles said:


> I admit to knowing nothing about this, but I keep wondering - how are human pheromones collected anyway?



Extraction from natural sources is usually the first step toward the identification, characterization and structure elucidation of bioactive molecules.
Most of the times the chemists then try to find a cheaper way to produce them, usually by modifying cheaper and more available compounds. In the case of steroidal compounds, like the ones I listed in the previous post, and many other steroids, one would use starting materials like cholesterol, or phytosterols (that can be obtained from plant matter) and design a synthesis that, through brute force chemical modifications, or enzymatic transformation (for example using selected strain of bacteria, or yeasts, or isolated enzymes) will afford the final structure.

This is what we refer to as a partial or partial biomimetic synthesis. Total synthesis (starting from smaller molecules and building up to the final one) is a lot more expensive and challenging, but nevertheless fun!

For fatty acids, which are usually excreted by mucous membranes and further modified by the bacterial and yeast flora residing there, those are usually commercially or easily available compounds. Those are called "copulins" and have been identified first, in monkeys of the genus Rhesus, where they work as sexual attractants for the male monkey (they are produced by the female, in larger quantities when the female is fertile). 

L.


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## dibbles (Feb 8, 2018)

Thanks for the explanation.


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