# de-funk de pits



## TeresaT

I decided to start this thread because it's really rude to hijack someone else's thread.  I'm sorry Marie.  However, I must also thank you.  You got a great thread started and that in turn got my wheels spinning.  So, if you're just joining in, please read mzimm's thread here:  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=59818

I have discovered that babassu oil works much better than coconut oil at deodorizing the pits.   On Monday, (7/25) I concocted a "pit detox" (something I had never heard of until I read the thread) made with bentonite clay and water.  Since I added too much water, I had to add some kaolin clay to thicken it up a bit.  I put that on my armpits for about 30 minutes.  It was too long.  I didn't mean to leave it that long, but I was doing laundry and watching Netflix.  Oh, well.  I rinsed it off with a warm wash cloth, dried well and put a little powder on there to make sure any residual moisture was absorbed. 

 I haven't used deodorant since then.  I just shower, dry off really well, and put a little powder on to make sure any residual moisture gets absorbed.  This has actually worked well for me.  And I am shocked because (if you read mzimm's thread) I stink.  Seriously.  Bad.    Thursday night when I went to bed (I think it was Thursday, they're all a blur) I didn't have the a/c set to 72, it was on 80 and I was sweating all night.  I woke up stinking.  After my shower, I was fine.  And I was good all day: however, I did notice that my shirt smelled bad.  The armpits of the t-shirt I was wearing absorbed the sweat (and therefore the funk); but when I smelled my skin, there was no funky odor.  Just the shirt was funky.  So, basically, the detox worked.  As long as the sweat (and therefore the bacteria) are not on my body, I don't stink (badly).  

 I don't want to use an antiperspirant again. I don't mind sweating.  It's the stinking that I mind.  Besides, my antiperspirant wasn't doing that great of a job in the first place, ya dig?  The antiperspirant is made to plug up the stink glands (uh, sweat glands) under your arms so you don't sweat and feed the bacteria.   It's the bacteria that make you stink, their waste products, actually (I think).  So, kill the bacteria and you kill the stink.  Which leads me to today's experiment. 

 I was hoping to stink, so I left the a/c on 86 last night and sweated my butt off.  I also had Max in bed with me as well as Chase and Ivy.  Max usually sleeps in his crate, so Friday & Saturday nights he gets a break and I get no sleep.  I have 67 pounds of Max on one side of me and 52 pounds of Ivy on the other side of me.  Sweat city.  PERFECT!!   Boy did my pits make my eyes water today.  I didn't even have to lift my arms high to catch a whiff.   Can you say, "Gag a maggot."

I grabbed a sliver of babassu oil out of the fridge and melted it in my palm.  That was taking too long so I just rubbed it onto my left armpit.  The oil absorbed quickly and the stench disappeared within a minute or two of application of the oil.  Impressive!!

I grabbed the jar of (melted) coconut oil and dipped a clean (very important!) finger into it and rubbed it onto my right armpit, trying not to gag.  The oil did not absorb well and my finger stunk.  (TMI?)  The thing is, 5 minutes later, I grabbed the jar and dipped four (clean!!) fingers into it and tried again.  This time I rubbed the oil into my skin for a longer amount of time.  The oil did not absorb well into the skin and 15 minutes later I got the babassu oil and rubbed it onto my right armpit.  

My left armpit is not greasy or oily and does not have a strong odor.  There is a slight odor, but it is not detectable unless I really stick my nose in there.  I would definitely go out in public and not be bothered at all.  I'm confident not one could smell me but me.  (And I've got to stick my face in my pit.)

  My right armpit still stinks.  It's not quite as bad as it was before; but it is bad enough that I would not be comfortable going out in public. It's probably not so bad that people would confuse me for being a hippie or homeless, but I'd be self-conscience about it.    Mind you, this is even though I used significantly more coconut oil on it compared to the babassu on the left AND actually used babassu as well.  I think the babassu was not able to penetrate through the coconut oil to get to the bacteria causing the odor.  I'm going to go wipe all of the oil off of my armpit with a dry paper towel and try the babassu again.   

So, although it is in no way scientific, I believe babassu oil is definitely the best oil to use for a deodorant.  It certainly proved this morning it has antimicrobial activity.  It absorbs well into my skin and is not at all greasy.  I don't even think that I'll need to add arrowroot or cornstarch to this if I made it into a stick deodorant.  

What I am going to do is use plain babassu oil as a deodorant on one armpit for the coming week and just powder the other (as I've done since Tuesday morning).  I'll see how the babassu compares to the powder.   The powder I've been using is the Dollar General version of Shower to Shower deodorant powder.  I've been using that for years after my shower, especially in the summer when it's so humid.


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## Cindy2428

T- A very "telling" experiment. But also very interesting thank-you


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## Soapmaker145

TeresaT said:


> It's the bacteria that make you stink, their waste products, actually (I think).  So, kill the bacteria and you kill the stink.  Which leads me to today's experiment.
> 
> So, although it is in no way scientific, I believe babassu oil is definitely the best oil to use for a deodorant.  It certainly proved this morning it has antimicrobial activity.  It absorbs well into my skin and is not at all greasy.  I don't even think that I'll need to add arrowroot or cornstarch to this if I made it into a stick deodorant.
> 
> What I am going to do is use plain babassu oil as a deodorant on one armpit for the coming week and just powder the other (as I've done since Tuesday morning).  I'll see how the babassu compares to the powder.   The powder I've been using is the Dollar General version of Shower to Shower deodorant powder.  I've been using that for years after my shower, especially in the summer when it's so humid.



Your post cracked me up.  The problem with BO is the bacteria feeding on our waste products that are secreted through the skin and converting them into stinky compounds.  I think your experiment proved that you can alter the food source that the bacteria uses and in the process eliminate the offensive odor.  Even if babassu oil killed the bacteria, it couldn't eliminate the offensive compounds.  You need to convert them into something that we can't smell.  It's more likely that the babassu oil activates enzymes in the bacteria that eliminate the funk.  I wonder what is in babassu oil that isn't in coconut.  

I'm not sure I would have been brave enough to try this experiment.

If the powder you use contains talc, consider using something else.


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## IrishLass

LOL, Theresa your posts always make my day by putting a smile on my face and a hearty laugh in my belly. Line of the day, "I was hoping to stink..."  

I'm curious- does the babassu cause any shirt stains for you? I'd like to try some of my babassu out, but I don't take kindly to underarm stains being left behind on my shirts. The last natural deodorant I tried last year (from Wholefoods) had coconut oil, cornstarch, cocoa butter, and shea butter in it, as well as that deodorant additive that BB sells, and it horribly stained 2 of my favorite blouses, which had me steaming mad. Thankfully I was able to get them out with my homemade concoction of Dawn Ultra and vinegar, but I'd rather not have to deal with it again. Maybe I'll try it out while wearing one of my 'play' shirts that I wear when working around around the house. Hmmm....


IrishLass


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## doriettefarm

I wonder if a babassu based lotion/cream would work without staining shirts?  I've got some of the BB deodorant additive and it's water soluble so I'm thinking about adding it to the water phase in a lotion.  But I'm also worried since the additive contains enzymes that the heat & hold will kill all the useful properties.  Anyone tried this?


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## soaring1

I have not used any type of underarm anything for three years. Your body gets used to it and doesn't produce the smell. You are suppose to sweat to cool your body off. Strictly soap to shower with and I don't stink or at least everyone tells me I smell good. Ha Ha


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## KristaY

When I saw the thread title "de-funk de pits" I just knew it had to be you Teresa! Honestly, you just kill me sometimes (in a good, LMAO kind of way). As I was sitting here LMAO, I had 2 dogs and 3 cats sitting a safe distance away from me and staring. I could just see them thinking "is she losing her ever-loving mind?" Well, that might be true but not from your post.....

Anyhoo, very interesting experiment you're doing! I've tried and tried to get away from commercial antiperspirants but nothing has worked. Tom's burned me enough I couldn't use anything on my pits for several days. I may have to give your babassau concoction a try.

Thanks T, for the post and the giggle.


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## TeresaT

First of all, thank you everyone for your wonderful comments.  I am so glad you are enjoying the humor as well as the information.  Please continue to add to the conversation in any way you think is worthy.  Diverting onto different tangents is welcome and encouraged. I do it all the time and some of my best ideas come from...OH LOOK!  A squirrel....

Stinky pits are a problem we all face.  (Err, perhaps _face_ isn't the word I want to use, who wants to "face" stinky pits?)    However, someone's gotta be brave and take on the funk.  And post explicit details about it.  Sharing is caring.  I have decided to stink, so you don't have to.  And, it helps with my antisocial tendencies...



IrishLass said:


> LOL, Theresa your posts always make my day by putting a smile on my face and a hearty laugh in my belly. Line of the day, "I was hoping to stink..."
> 
> I'm curious- *does the babassu cause any shirt stains for you*? I'd like to try some of my babassu out, but I don't take kindly to underarm stains being left behind on my shirts. The last natural deodorant I tried last year (from Wholefoods) had coconut oil, cornstarch, cocoa butter, and shea butter in it, as well as that deodorant additive that BB sells, and it horribly stained 2 of my favorite blouses, which had me steaming mad. Thankfully I was able to get them out with my homemade concoction of Dawn Ultra and vinegar, but I'd rather not have to deal with it again. Maybe I'll try it out while wearing one of my 'play' shirts that I wear when working around around the house. Hmmm....
> 
> 
> IrishLass



I don't know yet, because I've only tried it today and I've worn a cami all day.  I doubt it will, though because it has completely absorbed into my skin (just checked) and there is no residue of oil left.  There's also no funky odor unless I stick my face in my pit (or touch the fingers that I used to check for greasiness to my nose--not a pretty picture, huh?).  

I'm disappointed about the right pit, though.  I've definitely got some odor going there.  (I'm not even checking for greasiness!)  I haven't showered yet today (it's Saturday and I've been home and lazy all day).  Once I do that, I'm going to try the babassu on both clean pits.  I'll put a white t-shirt on after I do that just to check for staining and post about it.    



doriettefarm said:


> I wonder if a babassu based lotion/cream would work without staining shirts?  I've got some of the BB deodorant additive and it's water soluble so I'm thinking about adding it to the water phase in a lotion.  But I'm also worried since the additive contains enzymes that the heat & hold will kill all the useful properties.  Anyone tried this?



I just read about the deodorant on the BB website.  I didn't know what it was and wanted to check ingredients.  It sounds amazing.  However, I wouldn't use it for a deodorant product because it is water soluble and I don't want to have to use germicides in the product.  It does state usage rate for hard soap is 1%, but doesn't specify if it's safe to use in CP because of the heat issue.   I read the reviews and one reviewer stated she used it and it got rid of the onion smell from when she chopped onions in the kitchen (but didn't say if she used CP or HP).  So, there's a possibility of using it in my soaps (instead of the lauric acid  that I had mentioned in the other thread).  

I'll definitely be interested to find out how the deodorant additive works in a lotion.  If you already have a lotion recipe you like could you make a small batch substituting coconut oil (if you use it) with babassu and add the deodorant additive and see how that works?  I'll be more than happy to be a tester for the product and make a donation toward any supplies you have to purchase to make it.  The idea of a lotion as a deodorant is kind of nice, since we don't pamper our pits the way we pamper the rest of our skin.



soaring1 said:


> I have not used any type of underarm anything for three years. Your body gets used to it and doesn't produce the smell. You are suppose to sweat to cool your body off. Strictly soap to shower with and I don't stink or at least *everyone tells me I smell good*. Ha Ha



They lie!! :twisted:



KristaY said:


> *When I saw the thread title "de-funk de pits" I just knew it had to be you Teresa!* Honestly, you just kill me sometimes (in a good, LMAO kind of way). As I was sitting here LMAO, I had 2 dogs and 3 cats sitting a safe distance away from me and staring. I could just see them thinking "is she losing her ever-loving mind?" Well, that might be true but not from your post.....
> 
> Anyhoo, very interesting experiment you're doing! *I've tried and tried to get away from commercial antiperspirants but nothing has worked*. Tom's burned me enough I couldn't use anything on my pits for several days. I may have to give your babassau concoction a try.
> 
> Thanks T, for the post and the giggle.



Awesome, that had me laughing.  Try that detox thing first.  If you're using an antiperspirant and not a plain old deodorant, then the antiperspirant is plugging up the sweat glands under your arms.  My theory is with constant use, they never get a break.  Do you ever notice a film on your pits when you go to shave?  I did, even after washing.  I started using a pouf and rubbed my skin raw.  There had to be a better way to get clean.  But I couldn't figure it out.  I went back to the wash cloth and just dealt with it.  Then I read about the detox thing and the hijacking of a thread occurred.   

I refused to "waste" perfectly good honey on my armpits so I tried the clay.  I would not leave it on that long; set a timer.  If you don't have bentonite clay, I'm guessing any clay that you use for a face mask will work.  I received a sample of an activated charcoal face mask from Soap Making Resources.  I'll bet that would work well, too.  

(Just went and grabbed the sample and info.) Some of the other ingredients are bentonite clay, lavender,  patchouli, and bergamot mint EOs (on the list of antimicrobial essential oils I posted a few links for on mzimm's thread) and finally ROE.   The recipe for the AC mask is here (http://www.soap-making-resource.com/activated-charcoal-facial-mask-recipe.html) and the sheet that came with the sample states "if you are going to be making and selling this product" so there's apparently no problem doing that if anyone is so inclined. 

Once you detox your armpits, you just need to make sure you are completely dry after your shower/bath.  That's why I used the powder, but I'll bet corn starch or arrowroot will work if you don't want to use talc.  Since I don't have either one, I can't say for sure.  (I think I'll go buy some cornstarch just to see if that will work.)  You should give it a try on the weekend or during a time when you're not going to be around a lot of people if you're uncomfortable about the idea of going out in public with no deodorant/antiperspirant.  

Me?  I don't care.  If you're close enough to smell me, you're too darned close!!    Back up! I don't want to have to hurt you.  :evil:

I guess I bored you all enough for one session.  I'm going to wash my dishes.


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## Guspuppy

I haven't used deo for a couple years. Just like soaring1, I was pretty sure I didn't stink. And anyway, I walk dogs for a living, I don't have to see people! But then I went to Colorado and did an 8-hour hike up a mountain. Then two days later I walked 12 miles in a scorching high-desert park. The friend I was staying with told me (a year later mind you) that she 'noticed' my BO at that time but was embarrassed to mention it to me. Well, yeah, I'd done a whole lot of exercise in high heat conditions those days! I do stink though, most especially on days where my arms are clamped to my sides all day (as in wearing dressy clothing) and especially if I am at all nervous during that day. So I made up a CO/grapeseed oil/lemon EO blend with a tiny bit of baking soda in it. For a long time it was sort of crunchy and CO-hard, but then one day this summer it all melted when I forgot to put it back in the fridge after applying. So while it was a liquid I used my emulsion blender on it and popped it back in the fridge. Holy smoke, that concoction is divine now! It's so smooth and melts instantly and it only takes a bare smidgen on my fingertip. And seriously I don't smell at all using it!


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## TeresaT

Guspuppy said:


> I haven't used deo for a couple years. Just like soaring1, I was pretty sure I didn't stink. And anyway, I walk dogs for a living, I don't have to see people! But then I went to Colorado and did an 8-hour hike up a mountain. Then two days later I walked 12 miles in a scorching high-desert park. *The friend I was staying with told me (a year later mind you) that she 'noticed' my BO at that time but was embarrassed to mention it to me. *Well, yeah, I'd done a whole lot of exercise in high heat conditions those days! I do stink though, most especially on days where my arms are clamped to my sides all day (as in wearing dressy clothing) and especially if I am at all nervous during that day. So I made up a CO/grapeseed oil/lemon EO blend with a tiny bit of baking soda in it. For a long time it was sort of crunchy and CO-hard, but then one day this summer it all melted when I forgot to put it back in the fridge after applying. So while it was a liquid I used my emulsion blender on it and popped it back in the fridge. Holy smoke, that concoction is divine now! It's so smooth and melts instantly and it only takes a bare smidgen on my fingertip. And seriously I don't smell at all using it!



That is hilarious!!  Totally priceless.  It's an embarrassing situation all around.  Kind of like who wants to point out the huge booger hanging or the spinach on your teeth?  Nobody but your bestest friend in the entire world will say anything.  (Or me.  I'll hand you a tissue and say, "Here, you might want to use this."  The spinach?  No.  I'll let you suffer on that one.)


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## Guspuppy

right?!


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## doriettefarm

TeresaT said:


> I just read about the deodorant on the BB website.  I didn't know what it was and wanted to check ingredients.  It sounds amazing.  However, I wouldn't use it for a deodorant product because it is water soluble and I don't want to have to use germicides in the product.  It does state usage rate for hard soap is 1%, but doesn't specify if it's safe to use in CP because of the heat issue.   I read the reviews and one reviewer stated she used it and it got rid of the onion smell from when she chopped onions in the kitchen (but didn't say if she used CP or HP).  So, there's a possibility of using it in my soaps (instead of the lauric acid  that I had mentioned in the other thread).
> 
> I'll definitely be interested to find out how the deodorant additive works in a lotion.  If you already have a lotion recipe you like could you make a small batch substituting coconut oil (if you use it) with babassu and add the deodorant additive and see how that works?  I'll be more than happy to be a tester for the product and make a donation toward any supplies you have to purchase to make it.  The idea of a lotion as a deodorant is kind of nice, since we don't pamper our pits the way we pamper the rest of our skin.



You must be reading my mind girlfriend!  I will happily send you a tester of the pit lotion if it turns out.  I have a lotion recipe that normally calls for shea, coconut & sunflower but I want to substitute mainly babassu and maybe some kokum butter (because it's drier feeling than shea).  I'm thinking the BB deodorant additive plus some odor-eating EOs would be nice as well.  I've got plenty of supplies so no donations required . . . you supplied the inspiration so I think that's a fair swap!  And just to hijack your thread a bit I'm working on those Mexican cocoa bubble scoops as we speak you stinky enabler you


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## reflection

for those worried about staining their clothes you can add a little powder (arrowroot, cornstarch, etc) after applying the oil so it won't be directly against your clothes. also, rather than using too much oil, which might stain, add essential oils to it to enhance its effectiveness. tea tree, lavender and lemongrass are great. while citrus oils are phototoxic i don't think they should be a problem in deodorant as we don't normally raise our arms much in the sun. just be aware of it though if you do try something like lemon, bergamot, grapefruit and proceed with caution. sweet orange isn't supposed to be phototoxic but check your essential oil brand's info sheet to be sure. different brands have different cautions.

also, i think it's best not to scrub pits as they just get irritated and raw, jmo. you can even use half a lemon on each pit to deodorize them. i haven't tried it but some even use that daily for a deodorant. to me that is wasting too many lemons unless one has a huge lemon tree. 

definitely do a pit detox (see other thread) before switching to these kind of crunchy deodorants or using something like Tom's. they aren't usually as strong as antiperspirants so killing off a lot of the bacteria, or whatever the detox does, really makes a difference in the effectiveness of the deodorant.


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## TeresaT

doriettefarm said:


> You must be reading my mind girlfriend!  I will happily send you a tester of the pit lotion if it turns out.  I have a lotion recipe that normally calls for shea, coconut & sunflower but I want to substitute mainly babassu and maybe some kokum butter (because it's drier feeling than shea).  I'm thinking the BB deodorant additive plus some odor-eating EOs would be nice as well.  I've got plenty of supplies so no donations required . . . you supplied the inspiration so I think that's a fair swap!  And just to hijack your thread a bit I'm *working on those Mexican cocoa bubble scoops *as we speak you stinky enabler you



I am totally excited about that!!  Oh, and the pit lotion. :wink:


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## IrishLass

Theresa, I just wanted to let you know that for the past 3 days I have been rubbing a little bit of babassu oil on my pits just after showering and right before I apply my usual deodorant (a 'natural'-type from the health-food store). Before I go on, I need to make the qualification that it's been an extraordinarily hot summer here which has been very taxing on the effectiveness of said deodorant. It's gotten to the point that I have to re-apply it a few extra times throughout the day to keep my pits smelling pretty. 

Well...... for the past 3 days of applying babassu before applying the deodorant, I have not had to reapply the deodorant at all, even though on top of the heat it's also been very humid here the last 3 days, which has caused a fair bit of sweating.

Oh, and it has not stained my shirts (so far). It easily absorbs right into my skin just like you yourself experienced. Color me impressed! 


IrishLass


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## TeresaT

IrishLass said:


> *I'm curious- does the babassu cause any shirt stains for you?* I'd like to try some of my babassu out, but I don't take kindly to underarm stains being left behind on my shirts. The last natural deodorant I tried last year (from Wholefoods) had coconut oil, cornstarch, cocoa butter, and shea butter in it, as well as that deodorant additive that BB sells, and it horribly stained 2 of my favorite blouses, which had me steaming mad. Thankfully I was able to get them out with my homemade concoction of Dawn Ultra and vinegar, but I'd rather not have to deal with it again. Maybe I'll try it out while wearing one of my 'play' shirts that I wear when working around around the house. Hmmm....
> 
> 
> IrishLass




IL, I wanted to use it for a couple of days while wearing shirts with sleeves.  So far, no, I have not had any stains on the shirts.  

I have discovered something interesting, though.  I thought it was just my imagination, but I googled it and others have the same issue:  one pit smells worse than the other.   (http://hosbeg.com/why-one-armpit-smells-worse-than-the-other/)  Of course, this is not a scientific paper and I couldn't find any scientific data to back it up, but it actually makes sense to me.  So, I'm buying it.  (Anyone else have that issue?)

So, I've been using the oil on the right pit and nothing on the left pit.  I still do not stink.  It's not that there is no odor at all, but I don't stink.  So, I'm convinced that (1) the detox really helped (2) using a solid antiperspirant/deodorant stick was actually making me stink because bacteria was growing on the stick (3) babassu oil works well to control/inhibit bacterial colonies on the skin. 

It is something that you definitely need to do on clean skin.  Babassu oil cannot be used as a "freshen up" between showers like a deodorant (aka perfume cover-up) can be.  It will not actually remove any odor that may be there, so there's really no way to tell if it is killing those little critters.  For example, I shower in the morning, not at night.  If I used a commercial deo before I went to bed tonight, the slight odor I have right now would be covered up and gone by the time I fell asleep.   If I put some babassu oil on before I went to bed tonight, I'd be moisturizing my pits.  I'd probably inhibit any bacterial growth during the night and kill anything there already, but I'd wake up smelling the same, and maybe even worse than I do now.  

I'm thoroughly satisfied with the experimentation of the plain babassu oil over an 8 day period to know that it is something that will work for me personally; so I am going to melt down some oil, weigh it and add a few drops of lemongrass essential oil to it.  I want to start using the babassu with the lemongrass on the right (and nothing on the left still) to see if there is better odor control with the addition of one essential oil known to kill 22 bacteria and 12 fungi.  I'll give it at least as long as the oil alone.  Then I'll change to a different essential oil (probably peppermint or clove) and do the same thing.

Oh, I told one of the agents at work (he is a soap tester) about my detox and babassu experiment and said, "Wanna smell?"  For some unknown reason he declined.  I just can't figure out why he didn't want to stick his nose in my pits, can you?


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## Arimara

^^ Do you REEALY need an answer? LOL I only stick my nose in my daughter's pit if not mine. Poor little girl is starting to get a little smelly. The tester I made will be scrapped but I must say, I like my deo way better without the baking soda.

You made me remember this quote, Lady.


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## TeresaT

I've never heard of Zora Neale Hurston.  I'm going to have to look her up.  However, that is an AWESOME quote.  I saved that photo.  I'm going to have to print that out and put it on my "wall of fame" at work.


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## reflection

TeresaT said:


> Oh, I told one of the *agents* at work (he is a soap tester) about my detox and babassu experiment and said, "Wanna smell?"  For some unknown reason he declined.  I just can't figure out why he didn't want to stick his nose in my pits, can you?


are you CIA? oh wait, soapy intelligence? what is that?


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## Arimara

TeresaT said:


> I've never heard of Zora Neale Hurston.  I'm going to have to look her up.  However, that is an AWESOME quote.  I saved that photo.  I'm going to have to print that out and put it on my "wall of fame" at work.



Harlem Renaissance was her time in the lime light. She was a well known writer. Still, my absolute favorite quote is this: "I prefer not to." Put that on a shirt and those who get it may have a chuckle.


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## TeresaT

reflection said:


> are you CIA? oh wait, soapy intelligence? what is that?




Nope.  Secret Service.  I give one of my coworkers soap to test for me. 

I'm in Nashville today and tomorrow helping with some administrative issues that haven't been addressed since I came here in 2001 and took care of them.    In typical government fashion, people are afraid to destroy things.  There are files for vehicles that were sold at auction 10 years ago.  (Only a _slight _exaggeration!)  What a mess!!   I'm exhausted and have a headache.   It's only 5:30 here, but I'm ready to fall asleep.


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## TeresaT

Arimara said:


> Harlem Renaissance was her time in the lime light. She was a well known writer. Still, my absolute favorite quote is this: "I prefer not to." Put that on a shirt and those who get it may have a chuckle.




I say that a lot; but not for "that" reason.  I actually had to look it up, because I didn't get it.  I thought, "What's so funny about that?"  Because, I say it a lot.  And do what ever it is that "I prefer not to" do.  Specifically, my former boss used to say, "do you want to..." when she wanted me to do something (instead of saying, do this).  So, I'd say, "I prefer not to."  To which she'd promptly reply, "too bad."  And I'd say, "why'd you ask?"  I miss her.  She was fun.


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## reflection

TeresaT said:


> Nope.  Secret Service.  I give one of my coworkers soap to test for me.
> 
> I'm in Nashville today and tomorrow helping with some administrative issues that haven't been addressed since I came here in 2001 and took care of them.    In typical government fashion, people are afraid to destroy things.  There are files for vehicles that were sold at auction 10 years ago.  (Only a _slight _exaggeration!)  What a mess!!   I'm exhausted and have a headache.   It's only 5:30 here, but I'm ready to fall asleep.


i totally can't tell if you are serious or just kidding me. i don't know if a SS person would tell you if they are one. i guess i should say something pit related to not totally hijack your thread. uh, that babassu sounds awesome especially if it smells a little florally. it's on my very long list of oils & butters i'd like to try some day.


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## Arimara

TeresaT said:


> I say that a lot; but not for "that" reason.  I actually had to look it up, because I didn't get it.  I thought, "What's so funny about that?"  Because, I say it a lot.  And do what ever it is that "I prefer not to" do.  Specifically, my former boss used to say, "do you want to..." when she wanted me to do something (instead of saying, do this).  So, I'd say, "I prefer not to."  To which she'd promptly reply, "too bad."  And I'd say, "why'd you ask?"  I miss her.  She was fun.



It's an English major thing. Kind of like how it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to NOT read Chinua Achebe's _Things Fall Apart_ between high school and college here (I've read that book 4 or 5 bleeding times).

Getting back on track, is the Babassu still leaving the funk de-funked?


----------



## TeresaT

reflection said:


> i totally can't tell if you are serious or just kidding me. *i don't know if a SS person would tell you if they are one.* i guess i should say something pit related to not totally hijack your thread. uh, that babassu sounds awesome especially if it smells a little florally. it's on my very long list of oils & butters i'd like to try some day.




No, an SS person would NOT tell you if they were one.  There is no statute of limitations on war crimes and the Schutzstaffel were the ones in charge of the concentration camps.  They were Hitler's most brutal henchmen. Most would say they were just following orders; however, many of them actually liked their jobs. 

We prefer "USSS" or "Secret Service" to ensure there is no mistaking us for Schutzstaffel.  As a matter of fact, Former President George H.W. Bush (the first Pres Bush) quit the NRA over a comment made about federal agents being "jack booted thugs" after the Murrah Bldg in Oklahoma City was blown up.   (http://jacksonville.com/reason/fact...rge-hw-bush-left-nra-over-jack-booted-remarks).  If you recall, the Murrah bldg was bombed on the anniversary of the Waco, TX, raid.  I had been living in Dallas during that time period (assigned there 1992-1997).  

Anyway, yes, I make a lot of jokes and sarcastic remarks.  But the "Secret Service" one isn't one of them.  I've been a government drone since 1989.  Here's my life story.  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=60274

Babassu oil doesn't smell florally.  It doesn't have any odor that I can detect.  That's what's nice about it.  And it's still working really well.  Today I've got some lemongrass essential oil mixed in with it.  (I think I put a little too much EO in there, though.  It stung a little when I put it on.)  Any way, no odor and still smells like lemongrass.  So it's definitely a win right there.


----------



## TeresaT

Arimara said:


> It's an English major thing. Kind of like how it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to NOT read Chinua Achebe's _Things Fall Apart_ between high school and college here (I've read that book 4 or 5 bleeding times).
> 
> *Getting back on track, is the Babassu still leaving the funk de-funked*?




Yep.  Working great.  I added lemongrass EO (a bit too much because it stung when I put it on) and there's no odor.  I still smell like lemongrass.  Way better than smelling like funk!


----------



## reflection

TeresaT said:


> No, an SS person would NOT tell you if they were one.  There is no statute of limitations on war crimes and the Schutzstaffel were the ones in charge of the concentration camps.  They were Hitler's most brutal henchmen. Most would say they were just following orders; however, many of them actually liked their jobs.
> 
> We prefer "USSS" or "Secret Service" to ensure there is no mistaking us for Schutzstaffel.  As a matter of fact, Former President George H.W. Bush (the first Pres Bush) quit the NRA over a comment made about federal agents being "jack booted thugs" after the Murrah Bldg in Oklahoma City was blown up.   (http://jacksonville.com/reason/fact...rge-hw-bush-left-nra-over-jack-booted-remarks).  If you recall, the Murrah bldg was bombed on the anniversary of the Waco, TX, raid.  I had been living in Dallas during that time period (assigned there 1992-1997).
> 
> Anyway, yes, I make a lot of jokes and sarcastic remarks.  But the "Secret Service" one isn't one of them.  I've been a government drone since 1989.  Here's my life story.  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=60274
> 
> Babassu oil doesn't smell florally.  It doesn't have any odor that I can detect.  That's what's nice about it.  And it's still working really well.  Today I've got some lemongrass essential oil mixed in with it.  (I think I put a little too much EO in there, though.  It stung a little when I put it on.)  Any way, no odor and still smells like lemongrass.  So it's definitely a win right there.


whoops! i'll definitely keep my abbreviations straight on that. USSS it is then. that's a pretty wild job you have. i'm off to read your story. 

now why did i think someone said babassu had a slight floral scent? oh well. glad it's all working. lemongrass is so nice and makes me want that thai soup with lemongrass in it.


----------



## Susie

soaring1 said:


> I have not used any type of underarm anything for three years. Your body gets used to it and doesn't produce the smell. You are suppose to sweat to cool your body off. Strictly soap to shower with and I don't stink or at least everyone tells me I smell good. Ha Ha



Not everyone's body chemistry is the same.  Not everyone has the same bacteria living on their skin (although most of them should be the same).  Not everyone lives up north.  We have 80+ degree Fahrenheit days in January.  January.  So, while I understand those are your results, please understand that other's results could be wildly different.


----------



## doriettefarm

Batch #1 of pit lotion is in the books. Even if it's not an effective deodorant  it still smells and feels nice . . . used orange, patchouli & clove combo.


----------



## TeresaT

The packaging looks great!  Can't wait to try it out.


----------



## Arimara

That sounds like a great Deodorant name. You better get it protected. That EO blend must smell dreamy.


----------



## TeresaT

IrishLass said:


> Theresa, I just wanted to let you know that for the past 3 days I have been rubbing a little bit of babassu oil on my pits just after showering and right before I apply my usual deodorant (a 'natural'-type from the health-food store). Before I go on, I need to make the qualification that it's been an extraordinarily hot summer here which has been very taxing on the effectiveness of said deodorant. It's gotten to the point that I have to re-apply it a few extra times throughout the day to keep my pits smelling pretty.
> 
> Well...... for the past 3 days of applying babassu before applying the deodorant, I have not had to reapply the deodorant at all, even though on top of the heat it's also been very humid here the last 3 days, which has caused a fair bit of sweating.
> 
> Oh, and it has not stained my shirts (so far). It easily absorbs right into my skin just like you yourself experienced. Color me impressed!
> 
> 
> IrishLass



Oh my gosh! How did I not see this until just now?  This is awesome news!!  Are you still using the babassu oil?  Did you ever get any stains on your shirts with the oil?  

I am happy to report that I have still not used any deodorant since I first started the "experiment" on 07/25.   It has been 15 days and I'm still comfortable in public (even in a sleeveless blouse).  One of the nicest things I've noticed about using the babassu oil vs commercial antiperspirant is the condition of my skin has improved.  I no longer have red bumps under my arms.  (I think that was irritation from the antiperspirant plugging my sweat glands and hair follicles.)  My skin is smoother feeling and there is significantly less odor and sweating at the end of the day. In fact, right now, I still smell a little bit of the lemongrass essential oil that I've used in the babassu oil.  I put the "deodorant" on this morning at 8:00 or so.  It's nearly 9:00 PM now.  

I think I'll melt some babassu and add clove essential oil to it.  I'll switch to the clove tomorrow and compare that to plain babassu for a few days, then compare it to the lemongrass babassu for a few days.  I'll definitely have to use a dropper for the clove eo.  I don't want to over do that one and get a chemical burn.  I put a bit too much lemongrass in the babassu oil and stung my pits the first couple of times using it.


----------



## Marshall

Teresa may I ask where you’re getting your Babassu oil from? I would like to give it a try but it seems to be a bit hit or miss, I have found it on some vendors but there seems to be some liquid and some as a solid?  Any advice would be appreciated. 

 I gave up commercial deodorant a little over a year ago and have since been using a powder of sorts made of arrowroot and baking soda mixed with Bergamot, TeaTree and Patchouli EOs. I went to a brand called “Bobs Red Mill” for both the arrowroot and baking soda. The arrowroot is super smooth and soft and the baking soda is much finer than that found in the grocery store, overall makes for a nice body powder. Would like to see what the addition of the Babassu would do.


----------



## Ruthie

First time here in a while and what is the first thread I latch onto?  What a hoot to read!!  I used Tom's tea tree oil deodorant  for years (I'm allergic to every "regular" store-bought one) but it became too hard to get, as we are so far from a health food store.  So for the last year I have used baking soda.  Period.  It works well enough for me, but if I forget it early and my pits get wet first, then it irritates.  Wish I'd seen this before I made my WSP order this morning.  I would have ordered some babassu.  TFS ya'll.


----------



## TeresaT

Marshall said:


> Teresa may I ask where you’re getting your Babassu oil from? I would like to give it a try but it seems to be a bit hit or miss, I have found it on some vendors but there seems to be some liquid and some as a solid?  Any advice would be appreciated.
> 
> I gave up commercial deodorant a little over a year ago and have since been using a powder of sorts made of arrowroot and baking soda mixed with Bergamot, TeaTree and Patchouli EOs. I went to a brand called “Bobs Red Mill” for both the arrowroot and baking soda. The arrowroot is super smooth and soft and the baking soda is much finer than that found in the grocery store, overall makes for a nice body powder. Would like to see what the addition of the Babassu would do.



Thanks for the tip on the Bob's Red Mill.  I've used that brand for flour, oats and other things, but didn't think about arrowroot and baking soda.  Good to know.  As far as the babassu oil is concerned, I bought a pound from Misty Magic Supplies.  It's a Facebook pre-buy group.  I only bought 16 oz to try out. I like her supply group for oils because I can get anywhere from 2 oz to 16 oz to test out an oil and not have to worry about wasting a large amount if I don't like it.  I've purchased hemp, babassu, emu, cherry kernel and a bunch of other oils from her.  I'm not sure if they're less expensive than other retailers, but it's convenient.  And that's all I'm interested in right now:  conveniently trying new stuff at a fairly reasonable price.  

Babassu is actually a solid oil.  It has a melting point of  76 degrees (just like coconut oil).  I've got mine in the refrigerator right now.  There is only about 3 oz left.  I've just ordered 7 lbs from Soaper's Choice and it should arrive early next week.  I'll leave it in the garage or on the shelves in the kitchen until it's completely liquid so I can divide into jars then put it into the refrigerator.  (Soaper's Choice is in a one gal jug.)   I think, on average in spite of the shipping charges, Soaper's Choice has the best prices for oils.  (But I haven't done a whole lot of heavy comparisons for "fancy" oils.  There might be less expensive babassu, but I needed other things and added it to my list.)

ETA:  I just noticed you're "just outside Nashville."  What town?  PM me if you don't want to make that public.


----------



## TeresaT

Ruthie said:


> First time here in a while and what is the first thread I latch onto?  *What a hoot to read!!*  I used Tom's tea tree oil deodorant  for years (I'm allergic to every "regular" store-bought one) but it became too hard to get, as we are so far from a health food store.  So for the last year I have used baking soda.  Period.  It works well enough for me, but if I forget it early and my pits get wet first, then it irritates.  Wish I'd seen this before I made my WSP order this morning.  I would have ordered some babassu.  TFS ya'll.



Glad to entertain you.  I just ordered seven pounds of babassu.  PM me your address and I'll send you a few ounces to try out once it arrives.  It can tide you over until you make your next order.   And, if it doesn't work for you, you haven't wasted any money.


----------



## Marshall

Teresa thanks for the input, I will give Misty Magic Supplies a shot!  

Sent a PM

Have a great day.


----------



## IrishLass

TeresaT said:


> Oh my gosh! How did I not see this until just now? This is awesome news!! Are you still using the babassu oil? Did you ever get any stains on your shirts with the oil?


 


Yes- I'm still using the babassu, and yes- it's still working for me. And no- it has not caused any stains on my shirts!  

I filled up a tiny cosmetic jar with babassu and I've been keeping it in my bathroom to use after showering. The jar probably only holds about a couple of teaspoons worth of anything, and it has lasted me through at least 5 days so far (not much is needed per application). The rest of my babassu is kept in the fridge as is normal with me.

Anyway, I haven't used it on its own yet. Basically, I shower, dry off, apply the babassu, then I apply my regular natural deodorant (from the health food store). Normally, the deodorant from the health food store works on me only if I apply it a few times throughout the day, especially in this hot, humid weather we are experiencing at present. But since I've been applying the babassu after I take a shower, I have not needed to apply any extra swipes of the deodorant throughout the day, and the stinklessness has even lasted through the night and into the following morning, which I think is pretty darn awesome!


IrishLass


----------



## TeresaT

IrishLass said:


> Yes- I'm still using the babassu, and yes- it's still working for me. And no- it has not caused any stains on my shirts!
> 
> I filled up a tiny cosmetic jar with babassu and I've been keeping it in my bathroom to use after showering. The jar probably only holds about a couple of teaspoons worth of anything, and it has lasted me through at least 5 days so far (not much is needed per application). The rest of my babassu is kept in the fridge as is normal with me.
> 
> Anyway, I haven't used it on its own yet. Basically, I shower, dry off, apply the babassu, then I apply my regular natural deodorant (from the health food store). Normally, the deodorant from the health food store works on me only if I apply it a few times throughout the day, especially in this hot, humid weather we are experiencing at present. But since I've been applying the babassu after I take a shower, I have not needed to apply any extra swipes of the deodorant throughout the day, and the stinklessness has even lasted through the night and into the following morning, which I think is pretty darn awesome!
> 
> 
> IrishLass




*WAHOO!!  This is awesome!!! *

 I think we're onto something here.  I just ordered a dozen deodorant tubes.  I'm going to make up some deodorant sticks to see if I can get a few friends to try it out.  I've got one GF that has already used the pit detox and uses a deodorant stone, so I think she'll be willing to try the babassu and essential oils.  I think I'm going to experiment this weekend with a little beeswax for stability and arrowroot powder for less greasiness.  Although, honestly, I don't think it's very greasy at all.  It seems to absorb into the skin very well and last all day. 

I'm looking for powder bottles/jars with the shaker lids so I can make my own powder.  I actually found a company that sells them, but was having an issue checking out.  They have a paypal option, but I wasn't able to use it.  When I put my credit card info in there, it rejected it because my address was wrong.  (Uh, I think I know where I live...)  But that was using my phone and mobile sites are sometime a bit wonky when it comes to ordering online.  I'll try again later from the computer.  I just have to try to remember what company it was.


----------



## reflection

IrishLass said:


> Anyway, I haven't used it on its own yet. Basically, I shower, dry off, apply the babassu, then I apply my regular natural deodorant (from the health food store). Normally, the deodorant from the health food store works on me only if I apply it a few times throughout the day, especially in this hot, humid weather we are experiencing at present. But since I've been applying the babassu after I take a shower, I have not needed to apply any extra swipes of the deodorant throughout the day, and the stinklessness has even lasted through the night and into the following morning, which I think is pretty darn awesome!
> 
> 
> IrishLass


that's so cool that it's working. are you going to try one of the pit detoxes too? they really seem to work. who knew? 



TeresaT said:


> I'm looking for powder bottles/jars with the shaker lids so I can make my own powder.


i've heard people use empty spice jars or salt & pepper shakers. i used a  cheese shaker for my dry dog shampoo and a former stevia powder container for my own powder. i'm going to use my nice glass spice containers when i use up some of my spices to replace the plastics.


----------



## TeresaT

reflection said:


> that's so cool that it's working. are you going to try one of the pit detoxes too? they really seem to work. who knew?
> 
> 
> i've heard people use empty spice jars or salt & pepper shakers. i used a  cheese shaker for my dry dog shampoo and a former stevia powder container for my own powder. *i'm going to use my nice glass spice containers when i use up some of my spices to replace the plastics*.



I thought of doing that, but I am too much of a klutz.  If it's not arthritis it's nerve issues from cubital tunnel syndrome that makes me drop things.  I'd be too afraid of it eventually shattering in the sink or all over my pebble "tile" bathroom floor.   I remembered the company.  It's SKS Bottle & Packaging, Inc.  They've got tons of cool stuff on their site.  If you've never seen it, it's worth taking a look at:  https://www.sks-bottle.com/AmenityContainers.html


----------



## doriettefarm

Would these little glitter shakers work T?  Mad Oils is doing free shipping & mica sale thru Aug 15.
http://www.madoils.com/collections/containers-supplies/products/shaker-container


----------



## reflection

TeresaT said:


> I thought of doing that, but I am too much of a klutz.  If it's not arthritis it's nerve issues from cubital tunnel syndrome that makes me drop things.  I'd be too afraid of it eventually shattering in the sink or all over my pebble "tile" bathroom floor.   I remembered the company.  It's SKS Bottle & Packaging, Inc.  They've got tons of cool stuff on their site.  If you've never seen it, it's worth taking a look at:  https://www.sks-bottle.com/AmenityContainers.html


that site is awesome! i've been buying glass bottles & metal tins at specialty bottle which is another great one. gotta love the internet!

i think you're going to start selling your pit paste. "if it's strong enough for an agent it's strong enough for you." *cue james bond music*


----------



## TeresaT

doriettefarm said:


> Would these little glitter shakers work T?  Mad Oils is doing free shipping & mica sale thru Aug 15.
> http://www.madoils.com/collections/containers-supplies/products/shaker-container




No, but thanks for checking.  I've ordered a dozen 8 oz powder bottles with the twist caps.  I think you just pop the cap on the bottle and then you just give a half twist to open it.  They look a lot like baby powder bottles.  I'm going to make some powder with arrowroot, cornstarch and a bit of baking soda then  add some clove and peppermint (or lemongrass) to it.  I have no idea if it will work, but it sounds kind of refreshing.  I might try rice flour..  I haven't really thought it through yet.  I'll probably try rice flour before I try cornstarch.  I don't like cornstarch.  It feels weird.


----------



## doriettefarm

TeresaT said:


> No, but thanks for checking.  I've ordered a dozen 8 oz powder bottles with the twist caps.  I think you just pop the cap on the bottle and then you just give a half twist to open it.  They look a lot like baby powder bottles.  I'm going to make some powder with arrowroot, cornstarch and a bit of baking soda then  add some clove and peppermint (or lemongrass) to it.  I have no idea if it will work, but it sounds kind of refreshing.  I might try rice flour..  I haven't really thought it through yet.  I'll probably try rice flour before I try cornstarch.  I don't like cornstarch.  It feels weird.



They are kinda tiny . . . might be better for travel than home.  Do you have an asian grocery close by?  If the rice flour doesn't work out, I've scored some tapoica powder there for cheap.


----------



## Marshall

TeresaT said:


> No, but thanks for checking.  I've ordered a dozen 8 oz powder bottles with the twist caps.  I think you just pop the cap on the bottle and then you just give a half twist to open it.  They look a lot like baby powder bottles.  I'm going to make some powder with arrowroot, cornstarch and a bit of baking soda then  add some clove and peppermint (or lemongrass) to it.  I have no idea if it will work, but it sounds kind of refreshing.  I might try rice flour..  I haven't really thought it through yet.  I'll probably try rice flour before I try cornstarch.  I don't like cornstarch.  It feels weird.



From my experience I think you will be happier with spice jars. The powder I make from arrowroot and baking soda with EOs will not flow like commercial powder as they have flow agents added to them. I use old plastic spice jars with the larger holes in them and they have worked out good for me. I fought with bottles with smaller holes in them early on and quickly moved to the bigger ones.  

Never tried an official powder bottle though so please share your thoughts on them when you get them.


----------



## doriettefarm

doriettefarm said:


> Batch #1 of pit lotion is in the books. Even if it's not an effective deodorant  it still smells and feels nice . . . used orange, patchouli & clove combo.



I made v2 of the pit lotion with BB deodorant additive today.  I'll be sending out samples to a few guinea pigs who volunteered to blind test both versions and provide feedback.  I'll try to update the thread with results in case anyone besides me was on the fence about purchasing the BB additive and wondering if it was worth the money.  Also came across this video earlier today about using roasted alum to make a stick deodorant and thought folks might be interested.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4JltsX9gtc"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4JltsX9gtc[/ame]


----------



## TeresaT

doriettefarm said:


> I made v2 of the pit lotion with BB deodorant additive today.  I'll be sending out samples to a few guinea pigs who volunteered to blind test both versions and provide feedback.  I'll try to update the thread with results in case anyone besides me was on the fence about purchasing the BB additive and wondering if it was worth the money.  Also came across this video earlier today about using roasted alum to make a stick deodorant and thought folks might be interested.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4JltsX9gtc



I played it twice just to listen to her voice.  I don't know why I find accents so fascinating and entertaining.  Now I'm trying to talk like her.  Got any French or Russian videos to post?  Maybe some German or Norwegian?


----------



## IrishLass

Theresa, I thought I'd let you know how extra impressed I've been with the babassu over this past weekend. My vehicle conked out on me the other day just after noontime as I was driving home from running some errands, and I spent about 50 minutes out by the side of the road in our blistering 110F weather waiting for the tow tuck to show up. Thankfully, it couldn't have conked out in a better place as there were some protective, shady trees nearby to sit under, and it also helped that the last errand I ran was to pick up some In & Out burgers and drinks for myself and my son and my nephew who were with me, but it was still quite the sweat-fest, and we were all quite drippy/glisteny by the time the tow guy showed up......... _buuuut_ my pits stayed smelling pretty.  _Aaaaand_ they stayed smelling pretty the rest of the day without me having to re-apply anything. 


IrishLass


----------



## lenarenee

It used to be that you could buy alum crystals in the deodorant aisle. Anyone ever still see them sold that way?


----------



## Arimara

TeresaT said:


> I played it twice just to listen to her voice.  I don't know why I find accents so fascinating and entertaining.  Now I'm trying to talk like her.  Got any French or Russian videos to post?  Maybe some German or Norwegian?



I'm actually banking on some kind of Asian accent, more specifically a South Asian accent. Looking through a few other videos, she seems well versed with Ayuvedic herbs but I don't want to use that as an excuse to back up my thoughts of her accent. In any case, yes her accent is cool and but it doesn't sound like French, Italian, German, Russian or Norwegian but I haven't been exposed to that many dialects to say for sure.


----------



## TeresaT

Arimara said:


> I'm actually banking on some kind of Asian accent, more specifically a South Asian accent. Looking through a few other videos, she seems well versed with Ayuvedic herbs but I don't want to use that as an excuse to back up my thoughts of her accent. In any case, yes her accent is cool and but it doesn't sound like French, Italian, German, Russian or Norwegian but I haven't been exposed to that many dialects to say for sure.



Oh, yes.  I think she's from Southeast Asia, too.  I was wondering if there were any videos with people speaking English with definite French, German, Russian or Norwegian accents.  I find those to be fun to listen to, too.  Actually, any accent is fun for me.  I always try to mimic them.  I have ever since I was a little kid.  I don't have a distinctive accent that puts me in any particular regional category.  I pick up accents and colloquialisms easily and have a bit of a blend of everywhere I've ever lived or everyone I've ever spent a great deal of time with.  I have a friend from Portugal.  You can tell when I've spent any time with her, I develop a slight Portuguese accent.  It's purely unintentional, but it happens.


----------



## Arimara

TeresaT said:


> Oh, yes.  I think she's from Southeast Asia, too.  I was wondering if there were any videos with people speaking English with definite French, German, Russian or Norwegian accents.  I find those to be fun to listen to, too.  Actually, any accent is fun for me.  I always try to mimic them.  I have ever since I was a little kid.  I don't have a distinctive accent that puts me in any particular regional category.  I pick up accents and colloquialisms easily and have a bit of a blend of everywhere I've ever lived or everyone I've ever spent a great deal of time with.  I have a friend from Portugal.  You can tell when I've spent any time with her, I develop a slight Portuguese accent.  It's purely unintentional, but it happens.



I'm like that too but it's moreso from baeing able to distinguish a N&S Carolinian or a Georgian from an old school Floridian before those Yuppies turned it into a major resort state. It was the only way NOT to insult any Southerner from such states.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure you have an accent. Mine ranges from Upstate NY still. (WHY?)


----------



## doriettefarm

I need 2 more volunteers to blind test my pit lotion . . . PM me if interested.


----------



## reflection

teresa, i was just reading about lemongrass EO from the lady who runs the learning about EOs site and she says lemongrass, due to its chemical family (aldehydes), needs to be used at low dilution and is strongly recommended for short-term use. i know we always have to use the dilution recommended by the company where we bought the EO, but i hadn't heard before it's best for short-term use. i checked aromaweb and they do say it isn't a good one for people with hypersensitive, diseased or damaged skin. they don't say anything about short-term use though. it is a known dermal irritant but that sounds like it usually happens immediately if i'm understanding correctly. since i recommended this EO to you for a deo i definitely wanted to mention this. it was used in the deo recipe in a book i have. i didn't see anything about short-term use when i looked it up previously, but i'd hate for you or anyone else to have a problem. i did just see on webmd it says lemongrass is possibly safe to use topically on a short-term basis. i wanted to let you know as you may want to reconsider using it on a daily basis. ack! sorry, i didn't know about this when i recommended it to you for a deo.


----------



## TeresaT

reflection said:


> teresa, i was just reading about lemongrass EO from the lady who runs the learning about EOs site and she says lemongrass, due to its chemical family (aldehydes), needs to be used at low dilution and is strongly recommended for short-term use. i know we always have to use the dilution recommended by the company where we bought the EO, but i hadn't heard before it's best for short-term use. i checked aromaweb and they do say it isn't a good one for people with hypersensitive, diseased or damaged skin. they don't say anything about short-term use though. it is a known dermal irritant but that sounds like it usually happens immediately if i'm understanding correctly. since i recommended this EO to you for a deo i definitely wanted to mention this. it was used in the deo recipe in a book i have. i didn't see anything about short-term use when i looked it up previously, but i'd hate for you or anyone else to have a problem. i did just see on webmd it says lemongrass is possibly safe to use topically on a short-term basis. i wanted to let you know as you may want to reconsider using it on a daily basis. ack! sorry, i didn't know about this when i recommended it to you for a deo.




Thanks for the info.  I'll look into it further.  Right now I'm testing doriettefarm's pit lotion.  So far, the red is working well.  I'll switch to the blue starting tomorrow and see if that one works as well.


----------



## Marshall

Received some Babassu from the vendor you recommended  TeresaT thank you for the suggestion, they were a pleasure to work with.  

About 3 days ago I mixed up a small batch of Arrowroot and baking soda, when it was done I matched the dry volume with Babassu and added the mix of EOs I noted earlier. Cooled it in the fridge taking it out every few minutes and whipped it with a wisk, it took on the consistency of a whipped body butter. Plopped it in a container and here we go.  Over night it got harder than Superman's chest, so much for the whipped texture. The powder is nicely suspended in the blob I have and a gentle rub with a couple of fingers easily produces enough to apply as needed.  So far it has been working better than the powder alone.  Tomorrow starts the work week and the true test.


----------



## TeresaT

Marshall said:


> Received some Babassu from the vendor you recommended  TeresaT thank you for the suggestion, they were a pleasure to work with.
> 
> About 3 days ago I mixed up a small batch of Arrowroot and baking soda, when it was done I matched the dry volume with Babassu and added the mix of EOs I noted earlier. Cooled it in the fridge taking it out every few minutes and whipped it with a wisk, it took on the consistency of a whipped body butter. Plopped it in a container and here we go.  Over night it got *harder than Superman's chest*, so much for the whipped texture. The powder is nicely suspended in the blob I have and a gentle rub with a couple of fingers easily produces enough to apply as needed.  So far it has been working better than the powder alone.  Tomorrow starts the work week and the true test.



LMBO!!  That is hilarious!  Yeah, babassu gets rock hard when you put it in the fridge.  It would probably have kept its nice whipped texture on the counter, even if it got hot.  I've had my babassu & lemongrass in a tiny condiment container in the bathroom and it stays soft.  Not lotion soft, but not whipped butter consistency either.  I'll bet if I added some arrowroot or other starch to it, that would help keep it firm.  

Keep us posted.  I never thought to use equal volume of powder to oil.  I'm used to weighing everything.  I was thinking of doing 1:4 ration of powder to oil.  So let me know how your equal volume does.


----------



## TeresaT

doriettefarm said:


> I need 2 more volunteers to blind test my pit lotion . . . PM me if interested.



Do you want me to post my opinion here or email you with it?


----------



## doriettefarm

For now just msg me with results . . . don't want to skew anyone else's opinion just yet


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## TeresaT

IrishLass said:


> Theresa, I thought I'd let you know how extra impressed I've been with the babassu over this past weekend. My vehicle conked out on me the other day just after noontime as I was driving home from running some errands, and I spent about 50 minutes out by the side of the road in our blistering 110F weather waiting for the tow tuck to show up. Thankfully, it couldn't have conked out in a better place as there were some protective, shady trees nearby to sit under, and it also helped that the last errand I ran was to pick up some In & Out burgers and drinks for myself and my son and my nephew who were with me, but it was still quite the sweat-fest, and we were all quite drippy/glisteny by the time the tow guy showed up......... _buuuut_ my pits stayed smelling pretty.  _Aaaaand_ they stayed smelling pretty the rest of the day without me having to re-apply anything.
> 
> 
> IrishLass




I'm sorry about your car.  I'm sure you've had it fixed by now (I really need to check this thread more often.)  But I'm soooo thrilled that the babassu is working for you.  I really like the fact that it is not greasy feeling and absorbs well into the skin.  I've noticed that my pit hairs don't grow as much/fast when I'm using babassu directly on the pits.  Anyone else notice that?  I've been trying doriettefarm's "Pit Stop Lotion" for the past couple of weeks and have growth, so I guess it is the babassu oil alone that is inhibiting hair growth. (Unless I'm just imagining it.)  I thought it was kind of interesting.  I'm going to have to shave my legs then use babassu on one and not the other to see if there is any kind of delay in growth on the babassu leg.  This is turning into a miracle oil.  LOL.


----------



## TeresaT

Marshall said:


> From my experience I think you will be happier with spice jars. The powder I make from arrowroot and baking soda with EOs will not flow like commercial powder as they have flow agents added to them. I use old plastic spice jars with the larger holes in them and they have worked out good for me. I fought with bottles with smaller holes in them early on and quickly moved to the bigger ones.
> 
> *Never tried an official powder bottle though so please share your thoughts on them when you get them.*



Love them.  I've been using one with unscented powder for a few weeks.  It works great.  The first round of scented powders I made didn't work very well.  I think that's because I used the drops in the product and ended up having to try to sift through it with my fingers to break up the clumps.  This next time around I'm going to put the FO on cotton balls and drop them into the jar and leave it for a few days (shaking when I think of it) to allow the aroma to be absorbed by the powders.  I read one of the (many) online articles about making powder that suggested adding fragrance to the bath and body powders that way to avoid clumps.  I tried it with one small batch (less than 4 oz) and it seems to have worked.  However, I haven't put that into a bottle yet.   I do know that I do not like baking soda in the powder.  It is too scratchy; I threw that stuff away.  This new batch is with rice powder, arrowroot powder, kaolin clay and diatomaceous earth.  The DE and kaolin clay are both natural anti-caking agents as well as gentle drying agents reducing sebum and helping you to feel dry.


----------



## doriettefarm

TeresaT said:


> I'm sorry about your car.  I'm sure you've had it fixed by now (I really need to check this thread more often.)  But I'm soooo thrilled that the babassu is working for you.  I really like the fact that it is not greasy feeling and absorbs well into the skin.  I've noticed that my pit hairs don't grow as much/fast when I'm using babassu directly on the pits.  Anyone else notice that?  I've been trying doriettefarm's "Pit Stop Lotion" for the past couple of weeks and have growth, so I guess it is the babassu oil alone that is inhibiting hair growth. (Unless I'm just imagining it.)  I thought it was kind of interesting.  I'm going to have to shave my legs then use babassu on one and not the other to see if there is any kind of delay in growth on the babassu leg.  This is turning into a miracle oil.  LOL.



Please keep us posted on your leg shaving experiment.  I would be overjoyed if straight babassu slowed down hair growth because I detest shaving my legs!


----------



## Arimara

doriettefarm said:


> Please keep us posted on your leg shaving experiment.  I would be overjoyed if straight babassu slowed down hair growth because I detest shaving my legs!



I'll shave once a month or go a little longer for sheer laziness when the weather turns cold. if it works out- SWEET!


----------



## cherrycoke216

TeresaT said:


> This new batch is with rice powder, arrowroot powder, kaolin clay and diatomaceous earth.  The DE and kaolin clay are both natural anti-caking agents as well as gentle drying agents reducing sebum and helping you to feel dry.




May I ask your DE micron size? ( or mesh ) Does it scratch?
my DE is way bigger than Arm and Hammer baking soda!!!
Have I gotten the wrong particle size?

Also, have any of you experiencing new grown or more blackhead when using butter ( or hard oil  ) based deodorant? Besides oil stain, this is one thing I want to fix. 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## TeresaT

cherrycoke216 said:


> May I ask your DE micron size? ( or mesh ) Does it scratch?
> my DE is way bigger than Arm and Hammer baking soda!!!
> Have I gotten the wrong particle size?
> 
> Also, have any of you experiencing new grown or more blackhead when using butter ( or hard oil  ) based deodorant? Besides oil stain, this is one thing I want to fix.
> 
> Thanks in advance!



I didn't know DE came in different particle sizes.  The only thing I can tell you is the one I'm currently using was given to me by a coworker.  It is as fine as flour and is "food grade" DE.  I purchased some DE online from ebay, but haven't opened it yet since I still have a good bit of the other left.  This is what I purchased, though.  (http://www.ebay.com/itm/301999949776?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT)  

I don't plan on using any butters in the deodorant.  Honestly, the thought never occurred to me simply because I want to keep the ingredients as limited as possible.  The purpose for this particular deodorant experiment is to see if using babassu oil and known antimicrobial essential oils will work as well as a commercial deodorant at reducing armpit odor.  I would think that adding a butter into the oil would just be increasing the "food" for the microbes. 

I considered using beeswax in with the oil to give it a little more stability (not melt so much in the heat) but I decided against that.  One thing I might try when I put it in the sticks, is to add a bit of rice flour to the oil to make it less greasy going on.  However, the babassu oil absorbs into the skin very well and does not stain my clothes; so, adding rice flour might actually cause staining.  I won't know until I try it.


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## beckster51

Just a quick comment on defunking pits!  I have successfully used rubbing alcohol to sanitize my pits.  Don't use it after shaving - ouch!  But applying alcohol and letting it dry kills most germs.  I guess you could use alcohol hand rubs if you like.  I am a nurse, and alcohol is one of the best "de-germers" out there.  It would be easier to use that powders and clays and probably more effective.  ymmv


----------



## TeresaT

beckster51 said:


> Just a quick comment on defunking pits!  I have successfully used rubbing alcohol to sanitize my pits.  Don't use it after shaving - ouch!  But applying alcohol and letting it dry kills most germs.  I guess you could use alcohol hand rubs if you like.  I am a nurse, and alcohol is one of the best "de-germers" out there.  It would be easier to use that powders and clays and probably more effective.  ymmv



No doubt about the effectiveness of alcohol.  I actually do use that on occasion.  (And have used hand sanitizer gel while out and about to freshen up a bit.  If I can smell me, I'm sure someone else can, too!)  However, the point of the clay to "detox" the pits is more for a long-lasting deep cleansing of the pores and sweat glands than it is of removal of surface bacteria.  

Most people use antiperspirants (not deodorants).  Antiperspirants work by plugging the sweat glands; thereby not allowing them to do their job.  They also leave a film behind on your skin that you can feel, especially when you're shaving.  Your razor tends to skip instead of glide.  Some people don't use wash cloths or poufs to shower; they just lather up with the bar.  In that case, the film doesn't wash off.  The components of commercial antiperspirants are not water soluble.   You've got to scrub that off.  

By using the clay to detox your pits after you stop using a commercial product; you are allowing the clay to unclog the pores and sweat glands of any residual product.  I noticed after using the clay, I had a noticeable reduced amount of odor (perhaps I should unnoticeable amount of odor?).  I had stopped using the commercial antiperspirant once I did the pit detox.  I believe part of the issue of the odor is the actual antiperspirant stick itself.  I believe that bacteria are growing on the product and I'm applying those bacteria to my armpit.  I have no scientific proof of this; this is solely my opinion of what may have been contributing to my underarm odor.   My pits do not stink as much as they did when I used commercial products.  Logic would tell you this is the direct opposite of what is supposed to happen.  

I have not made my deodorant in stick form yet.  (I've been too lazy.)  So, maybe the true benefit to this experiment is in getting away from a stick form  and applying a paste or lotion form.  By doing that, and using fingers, there will be no bacterial growth on the "applicator" because I wash my hands before and after application.  The true "tell" will be when I melt down some babassu oil and pour it into a tube to harden back up.  However, I'll probably end up adding some DE or something else to it to make it less greasy when I apply, since I wouldn't have as much control over the amount as with my fingers.  Another problem (I just thought of) with the stick compared to the finger application is absorption.  Right now, I'm able to rub the concoction into the skin until it is mostly absorbed.  I believe this is one of the reasons my clothes are not stained.  Using a stick product, I wouldn't be able to do that.  Well, I would, but that would defeat the purpose of using a stick deodorant if I have to follow up application with rubbing the product in with my fingers.  I might as well just use a jar.  :think:

All in all, I think this experiment is actually fascinating.  I have not used a commercial antiperspirant or deodorant product since I did the pit detox (7/25) and I am very comfortable going out in public every day.  Most days at work, I wear a sleeveless blouse or dress and don't worry about raising my arms above my head to get something from a cabinet or what ever.  I was actually sharing the details of my experiment with my boss from Nashville when he came to Chattanooga for an inspection.  He laughed at the whole idea of it, but is willing to be a guinea pig for me when I get the sticks made up with the final combination of essential oils.  If I discover the sticks are not working, I'll just make up jars of it to send to my testers.   So much to do, so little time to do it.


----------



## debra062013

Since I received this in an update/ popular Soap forum email have not read all the replies.
What I am using is Bentonite clay, apple cider vinegar (Bragg's) and water. At first it stung a bit but now it does not. 
Dries quickly and other than a few minutes of vinegar smell it works great. 
I don't think you need to use Bragg's because it is expensive but I had it on hand.
That concludes my de stink de pits comment
:mrgreen:


----------



## TeresaT

debra062013 said:


> Since I received this in an update/ popular Soap forum email have not read all the replies.
> What I am using is Bentonite clay, apple cider vinegar (Bragg's) and water. At first it stung a bit but now it does not.
> Dries quickly and other than a few minutes of vinegar smell it works great.
> I don't think you need to use Bragg's because it is expensive but I had it on hand.
> That concludes my de stink de pits comment
> :mrgreen:



That's what you use daily as a deodorant or to occasionally detox your pits?  Where did you get the recipe (or how did you come up with the idea of that particular combination?)  Is it a liquid that you spray or roll on or a paste that you apply? Does it stain your clothes (after it dries, does the clay flake off onto the clothes like powder would)?    See what you started?  You can't just make a statement like that and not explain yourself. 

(This thread is about an experiment using babassu oil and various essential oils as a deodorant.  They have antimicrobial properties and we're trying to figure out the best combination to use.)


----------



## debra062013

Sorry I was just giving my way of ridding de stink: 
I got the recipe from one of the 100s of DIY that pop up on my FB page.The first time I mixed it in an open container and it kept drying out so I added more vinegar. But now I must find a small lidded jar because it really works. For some reason all commercial deodorants have stopped working for me even though I have been hiding inside in the a/c this Fl summer. 
This mixture goes on wet, dries fast, does not flake or stain. I can smell the vinegar for a few minutes but by the time I am dressed the vinegar smell is gone. It does sting occasionally because I don't have to use it daily so I believe it detox's my pits once a week???? (my guess).
I will try to find the source and post it. You only use a little and I have a lot of bentonite clay to use. 
Here is where I found it and in the mean time I searched in my 3 boxes of mason jars and found a small one to make a bigger batch. . I now use my fingers to apply but that might gross some folks out so you could use a facial pad or even a small spatula (mine is gone to soaping) but I don't mind using my fingers. 
http://wellnessmama.com/25432/detox-your-armpits/







TeresaT said:


> That's what you use daily as a deodorant or to occasionally detox your pits?  Where did you get the recipe (or how did you come up with the idea of that particular combination?)  Is it a liquid that you spray or roll on or a paste that you apply? Does it stain your clothes (after it dries, does the clay flake off onto the clothes like powder would)?    See what you started?  You can't just make a statement like that and not explain yourself.
> 
> (This thread is about an experiment using babassu oil and various essential oils as a deodorant.  They have antimicrobial properties and we're trying to figure out the best combination to use.)


----------



## IrishLass

beckster51 said:


> Just a quick comment on defunking pits! I have successfully used rubbing alcohol to sanitize my pits. Don't use it after shaving - ouch! But applying alcohol and letting it dry kills most germs. I guess you could use alcohol hand rubs if you like. I am a nurse, and alcohol is one of the best "de-germers" out there. It would be easier to use that powders and clays and probably more effective. ymmv


 
I've used alcohol, too (70% Isopropyl) , and although it certainly does help, the de-stinking effects unfortunately do not last all day with me, and it dries my pits out something horrible if used too many days in a row, causing dryness, redness and irritation.

What I love about the babassu oil is that it does a wonderful de-stinking job that lasts all day on me with only 1 application no matter how much I might sweat during the day in our hot, sweltering weather, and I can use it every day without it drying me out like Isopropyl alcohol does. And it doesn't stain my shirts/blouses! It's a win, win, win for me! 


IrishLass


----------



## TeresaT

IrishLass said:


> I've used alcohol, too (70% Isopropyl) , and although it certainly does help, the de-stinking effects unfortunately do not last all day with me, and it dries my pits out something horrible if used too many days in a row, causing dryness, redness and irritation.
> 
> What I love about the babassu oil is that it does a wonderful de-stinking job that lasts all day on me with only 1 application no matter how much I might sweat during the day in our hot, sweltering weather, and I can use it every day without it drying me out like Isopropyl alcohol does. And it doesn't stain my shirts/blouses! It's a win, win, win for me!
> 
> 
> IrishLass


 
I'm so glad!  This is such an awesome post!!  Have you noticed any benefits to the skin itself after using the babassu for a while?  I've notice that my skin is softer and no bumps or redness, even after shaving.  It's an extra benefit of moisturizing the skin that no one ever moisturizes!  It's also easier to shave whenever I do (which is not often at all).


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## doriettefarm

Just wanted to share this link in case anyone else was trying to formulate a cream deodorant.  http://soapdelinews.com/2016/09/natural-lavender-cream-deodorant-recipe-bentonite-clay.html

One of the ingredients is magnesium hydroxide (active ingredient in milk of magnesia).  I'm assuming it's the powdered form because the recipe says to mix it with bentonite clay & arrowroot powder then add to the wet ingredients.  

I might be game to try this recipe because it doesn't contain baking soda which always gives me 'pits of fire'.  But I'm also pretty happy with the pit lotion I formulated so not sure if I want to change what's working at the moment.  My only hesitation with the above recipe is the shea butter . . . I worry it's going to stain my shirts and the babassu based lotion has shown no signs of doing that whatsoever.


----------



## DeeAnna

Thanks for sharing that! Some thoughts -- 

Why not use the babassu in place of the shea? Also, keep in mind that the FCO might have an effect similar to babassu.

I see the recipe in the link calls for neem. I'd prefer not to have BO, but if the price of no body odor is putting up with the smell of neem ... I'm not sure I could do that. :sick:


----------



## TeresaT

doriettefarm said:


> Just wanted to share this link in case anyone else was trying to formulate a cream deodorant.  http://soapdelinews.com/2016/09/natural-lavender-cream-deodorant-recipe-bentonite-clay.html
> 
> One of the ingredients is magnesium hydroxide (active ingredient in milk of magnesia).  I'm assuming it's the powdered form because the recipe says to mix it with bentonite clay & arrowroot powder then add to the wet ingredients.
> 
> I might be game to try this recipe because it doesn't contain baking soda which always gives me 'pits of fire'.  But I'm also pretty happy with the pit lotion I formulated so not sure if I want to change what's working at the moment.  My only hesitation with the above recipe is the shea butter . . . I worry it's going to stain my shirts and the babassu based lotion has shown no signs of doing that whatsoever.



*I'm happy with the pit lotion, too*.   I looked at the recipe in the link.  I don't make lotions or body butters yet.  However, it seems odd to me to use fractionated coconut oil and neem oil then add e-wax to it to prevent separation.  Why not use regular coconut oil?  Wouldn't it have less chance of separating than using two liquid oils?  

I'll probably give the recipe a try using the babassu oil instead of fractionated coconut oil.  I've already established that coconut oil just does not work for me as a deodorant.  

BTW:  I did make up a deo stick with babassu a little bit of diatomaceous earth and clove EO.  The stick did not work very well this morning.  I put too much deo on and had to rub it in with my fingers--which totally defeated the purpose of having a stick to begin with.  I was afraid that would happen.  I'll try again tomorrow to use less.  But I think the way to go (for me personally, I don't know about anyone else) will be a lotion, cream or paste.  I'll try to made some by just whipping it with DE and the EOs.  I wonder if whipping the oil as it's cooling down will help it to retain the airiness or if I'd have to add a softer oil to it.  There's only one way for me to find out.


----------



## earlene

I have made deodorant with coconut oil.  And I have also used deodorant with one of the butters.  Both stain my clothes.  So beware of that problem.  I prefer non-staining underarm deodorants.  Happily after reading here about MOM, I started using it and it's great.  No stains and it actually works very well all day long, at least for me.


----------



## DeeAnna

The e-wax isn't there to prevent separation of the oils from each other. They will stay mixed just fine without any emulsifier. 

One of the complaints about a fat-based deodorant is buildup of the product on one's clothes. Adding an emulsifier would definitely help with that problem. 

This recipe strikes me as being very similar to an emulsifying sugar scrub -- one that is basically a mixture of fats, sugar, and emulsifier. The emulsifier in the scrub doesn't do anything at first except behave as a thickener. When the user rinses her face, water is then added to the product, and the emulsifier suddenly can do its real job of emulsifying the fats in the water so the fat rinses off the skin cleanly. 

The e-wax in the deodorant recipe is functioning the same as the emulsifier in an emulsifying scrub. When the clothing is washed, the emulsifier is going to help the deodorant residue wash out of the fabric more completely. (I suppose you could argue that sweat would emulsify the product too.) In some commercial deodorants, sodium stearate (the soap of stearic acid) is used as a thickener, but this soap would also help the product wash out of clothing more cleanly.

So if y'all want to stick with the babassu, by all means, stick with it. I really don't think the shea and FCO blend in the original recipe is writ in stone. And I'm not totally convinced the clay and arrowroot are even needed except as fillers and texture modifiers. I can't say I'm real excited about idea of clay and starch coating the armpit area of a nice dress blouse. 

I am a bit concerned about the amount of EOs called for in this recipe -- about 3% by weight. I'd cut that back to 1% to 2% in a product meant for long-term use on a specific patch of delicate skin.

I think the key concepts in the recipe are the use of the emulsifier to solubilize the fat in the washing machine and the use of magnesium oxide to (I think) inhibit bacterial growth. Add the use of babassu which does seem to be effective in controlling BO, however it does it ... and there's the germ of an idea that might work very nicely for y'all.


----------



## TeresaT

DeeAnna said:


> *The e-wax isn't there to prevent separation of the oils from each other. They will stay mixed just fine without any emulsifier.
> 
> One of the complaints about a fat-based deodorant is buildup of the product on one's clothes. Adding an emulsifier would definitely help with that problem. *
> 
> This recipe strikes me as being very similar to an emulsifying sugar scrub -- one that is basically a mixture of fats, sugar, and emulsifier. The emulsifier in the scrub doesn't do anything at first except behave as a thickener. When the user rinses her face, water is then added to the product, and the emulsifier suddenly can do its real job of emulsifying the fats in the water so the fat rinses off the skin cleanly.
> 
> The e-wax in the deodorant recipe is functioning the same as the emulsifier in an emulsifying scrub. *When the clothing is washed, the emulsifier is going to help the deodorant residue wash out of the fabric more completely*. (I suppose you could argue that sweat would emulsify the product too.) In some commercial deodorants, sodium stearate (the soap of stearic acid) is used as a thickener, but this soap would also help the product wash out of clothing more cleanly.
> 
> So if y'all want to stick with the babassu, by all means, stick with it. I really don't think the shea and FCO blend in the original recipe is writ in stone. And *I'm not totally convinced the clay and arrowroot are even needed except as fillers and texture modifiers*. *I can't say I'm real excited about idea of clay and starch coating the armpit area of a nice dress blouse.
> *
> I am a bit concerned about the amount of EOs called for in this recipe -- about 3% by weight. *I'd cut that back to 1% to 2% in a product meant for long-term use on a specific patch of delicate skin.*
> 
> *I think the key concepts in the recipe are the use of the emulsifier to solubilize the fat in the washing machine and the use of magnesium oxide to (I think) inhibit bacterial growth. Add the use of babassu which does seem to be effective in controlling BO, however it does it ... and there's the germ of an idea that might work very nicely for y'all.*



1.  I thought they would stay mixed without an emulsifier since there is no water in there.  
2.  I didn't know this.  I thought emulsifiers were used to make sure water and fats didn't separate.  However, wording it differently, emulsifiers bind water and fats together.  So, I can now see how this would help clean the arm pit areas of clothes by binding the fats to the water and washing them down the drain.  
3. I added some DE to my stick deodorant to help maintain the texture and hardness a bit in the container.  I don't know if that's really necessary since it's getting cold and the babassu is still pretty solid in the morning.  I'll have to try again in the summer.    
4.  Putting the DE in the "formula" was a hard choice for this exact reason.  But I didn't use a lot of it and it doesn't seem to be staining or coming off.  But, I do make sure the deodorant is well absorbed into my skin before I get dressed and I don't use a lot of product.  Using the stick is actually bad for me because I ended up putting too much on and had to wipe some off and then rub the rest in.  Which defeats the purpose of using a stick.  
5.  I think that's too much EO, too, especially if you're going to use the EOs on the list of antimicrobial ones.  Lemongrass is strong and burns if you put too much in there, plus according to a post by Reflection, you shouldn't be using it long term.  Clove oil burns, too, in high quantities.  (I'm not sure why you'd want to put lavender EO in a deodorant.  Lavender is associated with  calming/sleeping; do you want your deodorant to make you fall asleep?  Ha!)  
6.  I wonder if just adding magnesium to the babassu with bring anything to the party.  There's only one way to find out...


----------



## DeeAnna

"...I thought they would stay mixed without an emulsifier since there is no water in there.... I can now see how this would help clean the arm pit areas of clothes by binding the fats to the water and washing them down the drain...."

That's exactly right -- the emulsifier doesn't function as an emulsifier in the deodorant mixture itself, because there is no water in the product to emulsify with the fats. It basically is acting as a thickener in the deodorant mixture before it's put on the skin. This is a good thing -- it lets you use low-melting-point fats or liquid fats without ending up with a goopy, runny product. 

But the e-wax ~will~ function as an emulsifier when washing the clothes that have deodorant residue. Here are two threads where we talk about this very thing, although in the context of emulsifying sugar scrubs that wash cleanly off the skin and down the drain. In a scrub or in this recipe for deodorant, the emulsifier functions in a similar way. 

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=59775
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?p=580947

"...I'm not sure why you'd want to put lavender EO in a deodorant. Lavender is associated with calming/sleeping..."

Believe it or not, lavender EO is a good all purpose EO for skin ailments, as well as for sleeplessness and anxiety. It is antiseptic, antibacterial (MRSA, staph), and antifungal (candida) and promotes healing. Lavender is one of the safest EOs to use on the skin -- it seldom irritates or causes a reaction.

It pairs well with tea tree -- the two together work better than either alone at providing antiseptic and antimicrobial properties. That's good since tea tree is a skin irritant. Blending it with lavender allows one to use less tea tree and still get good results.  All that said, I personally wouldn't use 3% total EO in a daily-use product.


----------



## Arimara

DeeAnna said:


> Believe it or not, lavender EO is a good all purpose EO for skin ailments, as well as for sleeplessness and anxiety. It is antiseptic, antibacterial (MRSA, staph), and antifungal (candida) and promotes healing. Lavender is one of the safest EOs to use on the skin -- it seldom irritates or causes a reaction.
> 
> It pairs well with tea tree -- the two together work better than either alone at providing antiseptic and antimicrobial properties. That's good since tea tree is a skin irritant. Blending it with lavender allows one to use less tea tree and still get good results.  All that said, I personally wouldn't use 3% total EO in a daily-use product.



I totally agree here. I love tea tree and lavender together and they have helped clear my face up really well in my younger days.. well, early twenties since I'm not that old.


----------



## TeresaT

DeeAnna said:


> Thanks for sharing that! Some thoughts --
> 
> Why not use the babassu in place of the shea? Also, keep in mind that the FCO might have an effect similar to babassu.
> 
> *I see the recipe in the link calls for neem. I'd prefer not to have BO, but if the price of no body odor is putting up with the smell of neem ... I'm not sure I could do that. *:sick:



My latest deodorant adventure was to add neem to the babassu.  I wanted to see if it added anything to the party.  It did.  Major stink.  I melted 52 grams babassu and added 2 grams neem.  Not a lot of neem at all, so it shouldn't stink.  Right?  Wrong.  I also added 8-ish drops of Clove EO, 8-ish drops of lemongrass EO and 8-ish drops of my grapefruit-rosemary EO blend.  (Eight is my favorite number.  It's the same upside down or right side up and sideways it is the symbol for infinity.  Eight is constant, never changes and goes on forever.  OK.  Enough of that.)    In spite of having 24 drops of EOs, all I can smell is neem.  

I have a pound of neem oil.  What the heck am I going to do with it all?  I guess I'm going to have to make some really funky smelling soap with neem and tea trea.  If you're going to make a stink, make a big stink.


----------



## doriettefarm

Ewwww, thanks for the heads up T.  I have a 4oz bottle of neem and was contemplating using it for deodorant.  Might have to reconsider if you can't cover the stank with that EO combo . . . isn't covering the stank the whole purpose?  I wonder if the lye monster tames some of the stench?


----------



## Arimara

doriettefarm said:


> Ewwww, thanks for the heads up T.  I have a 4oz bottle of neem and was contemplating using it for deodorant.  Might have to reconsider if you can't cover the stank with that EO combo . . . isn't covering the stank the whole purpose?  I wonder if the lye monster tames some of the stench?



I doubt it but let's find out, shall we? :twisted::mrgreen::twisted:


----------



## TeresaT

doriettefarm said:


> Ewwww, thanks for the heads up T.  I have a 4oz bottle of neem and was contemplating using it for deodorant.  Might have to reconsider if you can't cover the stank with that EO combo . . . isn't covering the stank the whole purpose?  I wonder if the lye monster tames some of the stench?



I might melt down the oils again and add more EOs.  The 24 total drops probably didn't even amount to 1 gram.  But now that I've got my micro scale, I can weigh stuff that is less that a gram.  The scale weighs in increments of .01 grams.  This is the exact reason I bought a scale like this.


----------



## debra062013

They use Neem oil to clean leather such as saddles. I really had to search by leather for that to come in a google search. 
So maybe it will work but I did not like it on saddle.   The ACV I use with bentonite clay is smelly enough


----------



## BeesKnees

TeresaT said:


> I might melt down the oils again and add more EOs.



Any more updates on your experiments??   Finding a deodorant that doesn't irritate my underarms is high on my list of things I would love to do.  I've been using Primal Pit Paste (which has baking soda, which is what I think my body dislikes) for months and am not loving the underarm irritation.  Then I go without deodorant for a few days (when I can get away with it) to let my skin recover, but the reprieve doesn't last long.  It may have been wellness mama where I read to change the skin's pH by applying apple cider vinegar to your underarms about an hour before applying deodorant--btw, ACV on the underarms stinks almost as bad as low-level BO, IMO--but I'm not loving those results either.  So I had high hopes someone else in the forum would be interested in the topic and--lo and behold, TheresaT had a whole thread on it!!  So now my mind is brimming with ideas to try and I'm curious on how the experiment has gone in the past month??


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman

Also consider using a citric acid solution for things which call for acv for pH adjusting but acv might smell a bit too much


----------



## IrishLass

TeresaT said:


> I wonder if just adding magnesium to the babassu with bring anything to the party. There's only one way to find out...


 
I was able to find this out for myself just these past few days with the magnesium hydroxide powder that I bought off of Amazon last week. Magnesium hydroxide is the same type of magnesium used in Milk of Magnesia (MOM). I added a smidge to my tiny little jar of babassu oil that I keep filled up in the bathroom to aid in deodorizing my pits, and it has been working wonders so far. 

Just to remind you of my experiences with the babassu that I wrote about in my earlier posts in this thread: I've normally been applying the babassu to my underarms after showering and right before applying my store-bought natural deodorant, and it's been keeping me smelling pretty all day with just one application of the deodorant (instead of needing 2 or three applications of the deodorant throughout the day without the babassu).

Well, to continue, as an experiment for the past few days, I've been applying just the babassu oil/magnesium hydroxide mixture alone to my pits after showering (i.e., without applying any of my store-bought 'natural' deodorant afterwards), and it has been keeping my pits smelling fresh and lovely all day and throughout night with just that one, single application after showering earlier in the day. 

In case anyone is wondering, the powered magnesium hydroxide I bought is very fine, and thus far has not been irritating to my pits at all. This is the brand I bought: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GUOWEL8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 You can also make your own Milk of Magnesia with it for indigestion.


IrishLass


----------



## nframe

Well, after reading this thread, I made a deodorant cream.  Here is my recipe:

20g babassu oil
2g zinc oxide
3g arrowroot powder
2 g bicarbonate of soda
0.17g tea tree EO
0.17g lemongrass EO

I added zinc oxide because too much bicarbonate of soda irritates me.  The resulting cream is very white (because of the zinc oxide) and it cannot be poured into a deodorant container because it does stiffen enough.  I just poured it into a pot.  To use, I rub my finger on the cream and spread what I gather on my arm pits.  It does not irritate me at all.  I don't know whether it would stain clothing white because I do not wear tight-fitting tops.  I find that one application in the morning after washing is enough for the day.


----------



## dixiedragon

To those with the arm pit irritation - have you considered waxing  your underarms vs shaving? If you've never done it,  you're probably cringing! I recommend some Veet wax strips - I get them at Walmart. They aren't as good as a hot wax but they're pretty good. Do each armpit ONCE. If you keep applying it trying to get those last hairs, you will regret it. Trust me. Rub an unscented oil on your armpit - mineral oil or a soaping oil. That will dissolve any remaining wax. Wait a day or two and do it again, if there are any hairs remaining. I used to be pretty bad ingrown hairs and armpit irritation when I shaved, for me waxing is much better.


----------



## BattleGnome

Switching from store bought deodorant to what I use now (MOM and magnesium oil) has seemed to fix the ingrown hairs for me. 

(I also get less acne in my shoulders but I think that's more my skin appreciating the switch from commercial soaps)


----------



## BeesKnees

dixiedragon said:


> To those with the arm pit irritation - have you considered waxing  your underarms vs shaving?



Dixiedragon, I've tried waxing but my skin reacted badly to it.  For a while after switching to the natural deodorant I stopped shaving my underarms completely to see if that would improve the situation but it didn't.  I'm going to look up babassu oil and magnesium hydroxide from IrishLass's experiment and see about trying that, with the zinc oxide and arrowroot powder to add if the 2 ingredients alone don't work for me.


----------



## IrishLass

For what its worth, I shave my pits every time I shower, and my babassu oil/magnesium hydroxide mixture does not sting me at all. 


IrishLass


----------



## TeresaT

So far, I'm still deodorant free.  I've been using the babassu and neem oil combo since I made it and I've gotten used to the neem smell.  I'm also pretty convinced that the neem combo might be the key for me.  The only problem I have is the application.  I don't like using my fingers with the neem oil because it seems to stick even with a few washings (although, honestly, I'' probably smelling the residual odor from my pits and not my hands) and the neem makes the babassu feel greasier to me.  I'm going to add a bit of DE or rice flour to it the next time to see if that works.     

I've given up on shaving.  I just don't care anymore.  If someone is offended by my hairy legs ir armpits, that's their issue, not mine.  I've cut myself once too often to deal with it anymore.  I may change my mind again at some point, but for now, I'm going natural.  My hair isn't dark, or plentiful, so that's probably a factor in my decision.


----------



## Gaisy59

*Defunk the pits*



IrishLass said:


> I was able to find this out for myself just these past few days with the magnesium hydroxide powder that I bought off of Amazon last week. Magnesium hydroxide is the same type of magnesium used in Milk of Magnesia (MOM). I added a smidge to my tiny little jar of babassu oil that I keep filled up in the bathroom to aid in deodorizing my pits, and it has been working wonders so far.
> 
> Just to remind you of my experiences with the babassu that I wrote about in my earlier posts in this thread: I've normally been applying the babassu to my underarms after showering and right before applying my store-bought natural deodorant, and it's been keeping me smelling pretty all day with just one application of the deodorant (instead of needing 2 or three applications of the deodorant throughout the day without the babassu).
> 
> Well, to continue, as an experiment for the past few days, I've been applying just the babassu oil/magnesium hydroxide mixture alone to my pits after showering (i.e., without applying any of my store-bought 'natural' deodorant afterwards), and it has been keeping my pits smelling fresh and lovely all day and throughout night with just that one, single application after showering earlier in the day.
> 
> In case anyone is wondering, the powered magnesium hydroxide I bought is very fine, and thus far has not been irritating to my pits at all. This is the brand I bought: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GUOWEL8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 You can also make your own Milk of Magnesia with it for indigestion.
> 
> 
> IrishLass





IrishLass said:


> For what its worth, I shave my pits every time I shower, and my babassu oil/magnesium hydroxide mixture does not sting me at all.
> 
> 
> IrishLass



Hi IL was wondering what the proportions are that you use. I have been using coconut oil 1/4 cup, 1/4 cup arrowroot powder and 1 Tbsp baking soda for over a year and the baking soda still burns. I like the idea of switching to the magnesium for my poor pits and i have already purchased the babassu oil to replace the coconut oil.


----------



## BattleGnome

I just saw a recipe that subbed matcha powder (ground green tea) for baking soda. I glossed over the recipe, so I don't know how different it is.


----------



## IrishLass

Gaisy59 said:


> Hi IL was wondering what the proportions are that you use. I have been using coconut oil 1/4 cup, 1/4 cup arrowroot powder and 1 Tbsp baking soda for over a year and the baking soda still burns. I like the idea of switching to the magnesium for my poor pits and i have already purchased the babassu oil to replace the coconut oil.


 
Don't laugh, but my measurements at the moment are very tiny, and they are in volume instead of weight. Basically, I'm using 1 teaspoon of babassu oil to 1/16 teaspoon of magnesium hydroxide. I keep the mixture in a mini cosmetics jar made for sample-size solid perfumes or lip balms. Believe it or not, this miniscule amount lasts me about five days before it runs out and needs re-filling. 


IrishLass


----------



## Gaisy59

IrishLass said:


> Don't laugh, but my measurements at the moment are very tiny, and they are in volume instead of weight. Basically, I'm using 1 teaspoon of babassu oil to 1/16 teaspoon of magnesium hydroxide. I keep the mixture in a mini cosmetics jar made for sample-size solid perfumes or lip balms. Believe it or not, this miniscule amount lasts me about five days before it runs out and needs re-filling.
> 
> 
> IrishLass



Trust me this is serious stuff im not laughing (but i am smiling). Its good to start small so nothing gets wasted. Just an fyi i use the little canning jars from Gem i think it is and they have the standard canning lid which is leak proof and i use that for travelling because when hot the oil melts, and i found cute little white screw on tops from same canning company which i use at home. 

Now my next question is where do you get the magnesium hydroxide? I have tried health food stores but all they have are the capsules or liquid but not pure powder. And on a different note do you know where i can get sodium citrate? I was able to buy some from the hospital pharmacy because they use it for dialysis patients but i cant find it from soap supply sites.

And thanks very much for helping out. I love connecting with people who have same interests


----------



## BeesKnees

Gaisy59 said:


> where do you get the magnesium hydroxide?



::raising hand::  Ooo, ooo, I know an answer!!!  I can contribute!!   :mrgreen:  

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GUOWEL8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

When she recommended it I went straight to my amazon cart to add it.  Being a newbie to soapmaking I have zip to contribute to soapmaking discussions so it's nice to be able to answer your question, at least!


----------



## dixiedragon

TeresaT said:


> So far, I'm still deodorant free. I've been using the babassu and neem oil combo since I made it and I've gotten used to the neem smell. I'm also pretty convinced that the neem combo might be the key for me. The only problem I have is the application. I don't like using my fingers with the neem oil because it seems to stick even with a few washings (although, honestly, I'' probably smelling the residual odor from my pits and not my hands) and the neem makes the babassu feel greasier to me. I'm going to add a bit of DE or rice flour to it the next time to see if that works.


 
Both neem and babassu are solid oils - what about a roll up tube, or possibly a roller ball?


----------



## IrishLass

Gaisy59 said:


> Now my next question is where do you get the magnesium hydroxide?


 
Ditto what BeesKnees said - at Amazon. Just use the link she posted. 






dixiedragon said:


> Both neem and babassu are solid oils - what about a roll up tube, or possibly a roller ball?


 

A roll-up tube may prove to be problematic with babassu if it's kept at room temp, at least where I live anyway. My babassu oil is 100% totally liquid when kept at our usual room temp of 78F, but completely solid when kept in the fridge. 


IrishLass


----------



## TeresaT

dixiedragon said:


> Both neem and babassu are solid oils - what about a roll up tube, or possibly a roller ball?


 

It's hotter than Hades in my house during the summer and the tube isn't a good idea.  I did use it for awhile, the problem is when I use the stick, I end up putting on too much and have greasy pits.  It's easier to apply with my fingers.  And then I'm back to the smell.  It's ok.  I guess it's better to smell like neem than funk, right?  Although, some people think that neem is funk.


----------



## earlene

I've been using the straight MOM for a coupple-thre months now and. I'm totally happy with it.

I put some in a small hotel shampoo bottle and just a little squirt is all I need TG o last .e all day most days. For those rare occasions when I felt I needed re-application, I have one such bottle in a plastic baggy in my purse.

At first I did not like the finger application method, but have necome used to it and learned to accept it. Avoiding a little spillage now and then is hard, but not a big deal.


----------



## Gaisy59

*Defunk the pits*



BeesKnees said:


> ::raising hand::  Ooo, ooo, I know an answer!!!  I can contribute!!   :mrgreen:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GUOWEL8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
> 
> When she recommended it I went straight to my amazon cart to add it.  Being a newbie to soapmaking I have zip to contribute to soapmaking discussions so it's nice to be able to answer your question, at least!



  LMBO so cute!  I too am new and thanks for this cause I have been going crazy trying to find this stuff.  I want to try the babassu oil, arrowroot and magnesium deodorant.  I have been using baking soda for the past two years and it still burns.


----------



## BattleGnome

earlene said:


> I've been using the straight MOM for a coupple-thre months now and. I'm totally happy with it.
> 
> I put some in a small hotel shampoo bottle and just a little squirt is all I need TG o last .e all day most days. For those rare occasions when I felt I needed re-application, I have one such bottle in a plastic baggy in my purse.
> 
> At first I did not like the finger application method, but have necome used to it and learned to accept it. Avoiding a little spillage now and then is hard, but not a big deal.



I use a sprayer for my MOM then rub it in, one of the 6oz ones from Walmart. Every once in a while I need to rinse the tip but it seems to work.


----------



## BeesKnees

earlene said:


> At first I did not like the finger application method, but have necome used to it and learned to accept it. Avoiding a little spillage now and then is hard, but not a big deal.



Earlene, I can understand the issue with the finger application method.  An added benefit is that, for those of us who might not otherwise get around to our monthly BSEs, this can at least help us get familiar with what our underarms feel like underneath so we hopefully we would notice sooner if there were a lump.  Early detection is critical.


----------



## Gaisy59

BeesKnees said:


> Earlene, I can understand the issue with the finger application method.  An added benefit is that, for those of us who might not otherwise get around to our monthly BSEs, this can at least help us get familiar with what our underarms feel like underneath so we hopefully we would notice sooner if there were a lump.  Early detection is critical.



Very good point BeesKnees! I never thought of that. I just apply with fingers because like everyone else when it gets hot it gets liquid. Just an FYI to all i have taken my deodorant camping and kept the jar in our cooler.  

I have ordered my magnesium powder and can hardly wait til it gets here to mix up my deodorant


----------



## nframe

I am interested in trying the magnesium hydroxide and babassu oil combination but the cost of the one that Amazon sells (here in the UK) is prohibitive.  I have found some tablets that I thought I could crush.  However, they are marked as magnesium *oxide* (not hydroxide).  Is it the same stuff?  Would it work in the same way?  Here is the link:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00I6M1LS4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


----------



## BattleGnome

I use Epsom salts. It isn't as pure as most other forms of magnesium, but it easy to find to start figuring out your formula


----------



## Gaisy59

nframe said:


> I am interested in trying the magnesium hydroxide and babassu oil combination but the cost of the one that Amazon sells (here in the UK) is prohibitive.  I have found some tablets that I thought I could crush.  However, they are marked as magnesium *oxide* (not hydroxide).  Is it the same stuff?  Would it work in the same way?  Here is the link:
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00I6M1LS4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20



Hi i had to order on amazon as well and a bag of the powder was priced at 14.00 but when all was said and done it will end up costing me 30.00 and im not sure if i will have to pay duty as it is coming from the states and i am canadian but if this works better than baking soda it will be well worth the price. A small jar of my homemade deodorant lasts a long time compared to store bought, and i made some for my friend and it has lasted her almost a year!


----------



## IrishLass

How big is the bag you bought? I bought the 1 kg bag myself, and at the rate I'm using it, it should last me for a looooooong, looooooong time. I'm thinking _way more_ than a year or 2, _at the very, very least_! 


IrishLass


----------



## Gaisy59

*Defunk the pits*



IrishLass said:


> How big is the bag you bought? I bought the 1 kg bag myself, and at the rate I'm using it, it should last me for a looooooong, looooooong time. I'm thinking _way more_ than a year or 2, _at the very, very least_!
> 
> 
> IrishLass



The bag was 250 gm.  I bought the small one cause I'm not sure if it will work.  You have said it works so I sure hope it does.  I have been using the baking soda recipe for two years now and it still burns but I'm determined not to do store bought ever again.  I love the idea that babassu does not stain because my daughter stopped using it for that very reason.  She plays soccer and it worked because she did not smell.  My fingers are crossed IrishLass that babassu, arrowroot and magnesium works!

Just an FYI here...if I had ordered the powder and shipped it to the border and picked it up myself it wouldn't have cost so much.  It is Canadian shipping that sucks, and like I said I still don't know if I will have to pay duty.


----------



## debra062013

nframe said:


> I am interested in trying the magnesium hydroxide and babassu oil combination but the cost of the one that Amazon sells (here in the UK) is prohibitive.  I have found some tablets that I thought I could crush.  However, they are marked as magnesium *oxide* (not hydroxide).  Is it the same stuff?  Would it work in the same way?  Here is the link:
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00I6M1LS4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20



Have you looked into having some from the USA shipping it to you , does anyone on eBay sell it?


----------



## Gaisy59

debra062013 said:


> Have you looked into having some from the USA shipping it to you , does anyone on eBay sell it?



Hmmm that would be a very good thought, but i can get stuff shipped free to a post box at the border and i would just pick it up which saves me bothering anyone...i just didnt feel like drving to border for one little package. I would do it for a big order though


----------



## Gaisy59

*Defunk the pits*



IrishLass said:


> I was able to find this out for myself just these past few days with the magnesium hydroxide powder that I bought off of Amazon last week. Magnesium hydroxide is the same type of magnesium used in Milk of Magnesia (MOM). I added a smidge to my tiny little jar of babassu oil that I keep filled up in the bathroom to aid in deodorizing my pits, and it has been working wonders so far.
> 
> Just to remind you of my experiences with the babassu that I wrote about in my earlier posts in this thread: I've normally been applying the babassu to my underarms after showering and right before applying my store-bought natural deodorant, and it's been keeping me smelling pretty all day with just one application of the deodorant (instead of needing 2 or three applications of the deodorant throughout the day without the babassu).
> 
> Well, to continue, as an experiment for the past few days, I've been applying just the babassu oil/magnesium hydroxide mixture alone to my pits after showering (i.e., without applying any of my store-bought 'natural' deodorant afterwards), and it has been keeping my pits smelling fresh and lovely all day and throughout night with just that one, single application after showering earlier in the day.
> 
> In case anyone is wondering, the powered magnesium hydroxide I bought is very fine, and thus far has not been irritating to my pits at all. This is the brand I bought: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GUOWEL8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 You can also make your own Milk of Magnesia with it for indigestion.
> 
> 
> IrishLass



Ok so im ready to make my deodorant. Now i never used to melt down my coconut oil i used to just mash it up with the baking soda. In your opinion should i melt down the babassu oil first then add magnesium? Also i see you are just using babassu and magnesium without the arrowroot. Is this still working for you? Thanks


----------



## IrishLass

Gaisy59 said:


> Ok so im ready to make my deodorant. Now i never used to melt down my coconut oil i used to just mash it up with the baking soda. In your opinion should i melt down the babassu oil first then add magnesium?


 
Hi Gaisy! Due to the warm climate in which I live, my babassu is 100% liquid if kept at room temp, although having just said that, we recently had a cold spell set in this past week and the little set-aside portion of babassu that I have at room temperature has firmed to a soft, slushy consistency. In my opinion, if your babassu is soft enough to mash, I wouldn't melt it. I would just mash/stir up the magnesium powder with the soft/slushy babassu and call it done. Actually, that's just what I did this morning (I needed to replenish my little jar of homemade deodorant), and it worked perfectly fine.  




Gaisy59 said:


> Also i see you are just using babassu and magnesium without the arrowroot. Is this still working for you? Thanks


 
Yes- it's totally working for me with just the babassu and magnesium. It's truly amazing how well this stuff works. For what its worth, I've never added arrowroot to mine, and since it's working so well without it, I personally don't see the need for it. 

The babassu/magnesium hydroxide mixture sinks right into my skin and does not cause any oil slicks or stains on any of my shirts/blouses _at all_. And it goes on smooth without any friction/scratchiness- even when I've increased the magnesium to babassu ratio to see what it feels like with a paste-like consistency (several folks who wrote reviews on Amazon underneath the Magnesium Hydroxide product were making their homemade deodorants with it into a paste, so I thought I'd try it out). To tell you the truth, the mixture actually feels quite smooth and soothing to my skin...... the total opposite of how baking soda feels to my skin. I really think you're going to love it.


IrishLass


----------



## Gaisy59

IrishLass said:


> Hi Gaisy! Due to the warm climate in which I live, my babassu is 100% liquid if kept at room temp, although having just said that, we recently had a cold spell set in this past week and the little set-aside portion of babassu that I have at room temperature has firmed to a soft, slushy consistency. In my opinion, if your babassu is soft enough to mash, I wouldn't melt it. I would just mash/stir up the magnesium powder with the soft/slushy babassu and call it done. Actually, that's just what I did this morning (I needed to replenish my little jar of homemade deodorant), and it worked perfectly fine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes- it's totally working for me with just the babassu and magnesium. It's truly amazing how well this stuff works. For what its worth, I've never added arrowroot to mine, and since it's working so well without it, I personally don't see the need for it.
> 
> The babassu/magnesium hydroxide mixture sinks right into my skin and does not cause any oil slicks or stains on any of my shirts/blouses _at all_. And it goes on smooth without any friction/scratchiness- even when I've increased the magnesium to babassu ratio to see what it feels like with a paste-like consistency (several folks who wrote reviews on Amazon underneath the Magnesium Hydroxide product were making their homemade deodorants with it into a paste, so I thought I'd try it out). To tell you the truth, the mixture actually feels quite smooth and soothing to my skin...... the total opposite of how baking soda feels to my skin. I really think you're going to love it.
> 
> 
> IrishLass



This is great and amazing! I will be sooo glad to get rid of the baking soda and its down to only 2 products.  I hope Teresa sees this post...she started something wonderful!


----------



## nframe

debra062013 said:


> Have you looked into having some from the USA shipping it to you , does anyone on eBay sell it?



The problem with that is that we have to pay import duties from the USA and these are quite high, too.  Plus we also have to pay Royal Mail £8 just for opening and re-closing the parcel!


----------



## earlene

I am still using only Milk of Magnesia, but last week I needed to replenish my little bottle, which was a small hotel shampoo bottle (about 0,75 ounce size.) 

Since I was home again, it occurred to me a somewhat larger bottle might be nice so I wouldn't have to refill it every week.    Well, being the saver that I am, I tend to save empty FO bottles, so bingo, I used an FO bottle of a scent I really liked in a recent soap.

Now I have Teakwood Cardamon scented deodorant! Well, not actually. I think the scent lasted about a day inside the bottle and at first I could smell it on me, maybe the first day, but less the second day. Now I cannot smell it at all. But the MOM is green. So now I have unscented green deodorant.  

Either way it still works very well.  It does make me wonder once again about adding fragrance to deodorant. When I first started using an artisan deodorant stick last April I loved the strong lemongrass scent, but hated the fact that it stained my clothing, so stopped using it. Then a couple of months ago I decided to use it one day just for the lemongrass scent since I was going to be doing some heavy work in old clothes I didn't care about, and lo and behold the lemongrass fragrance was no longer strong. That made me wonder if adding fragrance to deodorant is actually worth the expense.


----------



## IrishLass

I'm glad you brought scenting up, Earlene. So far, I have not added any scent to my concoction, but the other day I was debating with myself whether it would be a good idea or not. After reading your post, I'm leaning towards probably not such a good idea (at least for me anyway).

Re: then staining: Do you think it was the lemongrass EO in the artisan deodorant you bought that stained your shirt or the deodorant itself?


IrishLass


----------



## earlene

IrishLass said:


> I'm glad you brought scenting up, Earlene. So far, I have not added any scent to my concoction, but the other day I was debating with myself whether it would be a good idea or not. After reading your post, I'm leaning towards probably not such a good idea (at least for me anyway).
> 
> Re: then staining: Do you think it was the lemongrass EO in the artisan deodorant you bought that stained your shirt or the deodorant itself?
> 
> 
> IrishLass



I believed it was the oils used in the deodorant, but of course cannot be positive.  Sadly the ingredients list wore off and I can't now read what those were.  I  meant to utilize the ingredient list in case I ever wanted to make a deodorant stick myself, but because of the staining lost interest.


----------



## Gaisy59

*Defunk the pits*

Ok so my recipe is 100 gm babassu oil and 30 ml magnesium hydroxide.
I had to melt the babassu oil as it is rock solid and not at all as soft as coconut oil.  Once melted i added the magnesium until it was well incorporated and poured it into my jar.  

OMG it is rock solid lol. I am going to have to scrape shavings off to use on my pits


----------



## Gaisy59

*Defunk the pits*



Marshall said:


> Received some Babassu from the vendor you recommended  TeresaT thank you for the suggestion, they were a pleasure to work with.
> 
> About 3 days ago I mixed up a small batch of Arrowroot and baking soda, when it was done I matched the dry volume with Babassu and added the mix of EOs I noted earlier. Cooled it in the fridge taking it out every few minutes and whipped it with a wisk, it took on the consistency of a whipped body butter. Plopped it in a container and here we go.  Over night it got harder than Superman's chest, so much for the whipped texture. The powder is nicely suspended in the blob I have and a gentle rub with a couple of fingers easily produces enough to apply as needed.  So far it has been working better than the powder alone.  Tomorrow starts the work week and the true test.



Hey there Marshall i would like to know how you can manage a couple of swipes of the babassu deodorant. I made a batch with babassu and magnesium and this product is rock solid. I have had to scrape it to get enough to put on. Im thinking i will have to shred my whole jar. Any suggestions to make it less solid?


----------



## DeeAnna

Gaisy59 said:


> Ok so my recipe is 100 gm babassu oil and 30 ml magnesium hydroxide.... OMG it is rock solid lol....



Irish Lass talked about using 16 parts babassu to 1 part MOM. Yours is roughly 3 to 1. Your recipe seems based on the "if a little is good, more is better" theory. Maybe back off on the mag hydroxide just a bit?


----------



## Gaisy59

DeeAnna said:


> Irish Lass talked about using 16 parts babassu to 1 part MOM. Yours is roughly 3 to 1. Your recipe seems based on the "if a little is good, more is better" theory. Maybe back off on the mag hydroxide just a bit?



OK I will add more babassu and mix it up again.  Hopefully that will help soften it up a lot.  I swear it is like cement, but the babassu I ordered is just as hard.  I called the company and they said that is how the product is.


----------



## DeeAnna

Yes, my babassu is very firm too, but it melts easily at body temp. 

If you still want a softer product yet, you might have to add a liquid oil to soften the consistency. You don't want it too soft, so I'd guesstimate to try adding 5% oil and see how that works. My top pick for this kind of thing would be fractionated coconut oil, since FCO is much more likely to wash out of fabric easier than an oil like olive.


----------



## IrishLass

When refrigerated, my babassu is totally rock-solid hard, but goes completely liquid when my summer/early autumn ambient room temp is kept at 78F/26C (via air conditioner). And like DeeAnna said, it also melts very easily at body temp. Mine starts melting right on contact with my skin when taken straight from the fridge.

The past few days, though, we've hit a bit of a cooling spell in my area and we were able to turn our air conditioning off without sweltering. Right now as I type, it's 72F/22C in my house and my normally liquid babassu/magnesium hydroxide mixture that I keep in a small jar in my bathroom has now firmed to a soft, semi-solid consistency just like Vaseline- very easily spreadable/workable. 

How cold is it in your house?


IrishLass


----------



## TeresaT

I haven't been here in a bit.  I leave mine on the bathroom counter.  It is usually semi solid because it's still warm Here.  We did have a bit of a cold spell and it became rock solid, but the bathroom was like a meat locker before I turned on the heater.  If you have a candle or mug warmer plate, you could probably turn that on to warm up your container while you are in the shower if it's rock hard.   I added a little bit of neem the last time I made it, so it doesn't to get as hard as just the babassu and EOs.  IL, I'm so glad it is still working for you!! I have actually been thinking of using some of the fragrance oils I have IF I can get a deodorant to work that is unscented.  So far, the deodorant is fine, but not very long lasting.  I definitely need to try the magnesium hydroxide; it's on my list of things to buy.


----------



## Marshall

Gaisy59 said:


> Hey there Marshall i would like to know how you can manage a couple of swipes of the babassu deodorant. I made a batch with babassu and magnesium and this product is rock solid. I have had to scrape it to get enough to put on. Im thinking i will have to shred my whole jar. Any suggestions to make it less solid?



Last batch I made was a mixture of Arrowroot powder (2 parts) fine ground Baking soda, I use BSoda from Bob's Red Mill, it seems to be finer ground (1 part) and added Babassu to closely equal the dry ingredients. As the oil began to cool I kept whipping the mixture with a whisk almost like making body butter and as it started to really thicken I poured/packed it into an empty Altoids tin.  

I have been using this mixture since the post you noted. I simply rub 3 fingers around in the tin until I have some melted off on my fingers and rub it in. This has been working great for me, no odor at all. There are times at work when I will begin to sweat a bit, but not bad and never with any odor. 

My wife has tried it and likes is but in not digging the whole finger rub deal. I have ordered some empty deodorant containers and will give that a shot, but not done yet. 

To your question directly ... I noticed the second batch I made (described above) is softer than my first, the first batch which i used up was as you describe, I applied it with my fingers as well. The only difference is a little more Babassu was added, not a lot more at all so be careful. 

Hope that helps!


----------



## Gaisy59

Hmmm not sure if my last reply to IrishLass went through but our house is 70F/20C. I tried adding arrowroot powder to break up the babassu but it is still rock solid. I dont want to add oil as that is why i am trying to get away from coconut oil...staining. I will try adding more arrowroot but i am thinking it wont work, but this batch is a train wreck anyway so it cant hurt.


----------



## IrishLass

Gaisy- you should have no worries about the babassu staining. I've used it straight on my underarms without anything mixed in with it, and there's never been any staining on any of my shirts or blouses. Other oils and/or butters have stained my shirts/blouses, but not the babassu. 


IrishLass


----------



## TeresaT

Gaisy59 said:


> Hmmm not sure if my last reply to IrishLass went through but our house is 70F/20C. I tried adding arrowroot powder to break up the babassu but it is still rock solid. I dont want to add oil as that is why i am trying to get away from coconut oil...staining. I will try adding more arrowroot but i am thinking it wont work, but this batch is a train wreck anyway so it cant hurt.



No staining here either and I've got neem mixed with mine as well as several essential oils.  In fact, I was wearing a white dress shirt on Friday and didn't let the deodorant absorb completely when i put my shirt on.  Bad move on my part, but there's no stains on the shirt.  I was actually surprised at that.


----------



## Gaisy59

I just dont understand why my babassu is so rock solid! Im so frustrated!


----------



## BeesKnees

I'm appreciating very much the way the babassu oil-magnesium hydroxide is performing.  No irritation, no staining.  

The babassu oil had to be scooped out of the bottle because it had been outside (during shipping) and had to be melted in the microwave but when softened  mixed fine with the magnesium hydroxide.  I didn't completely melt it, softened was fine with me.  My pits are happy so far.


----------



## TeresaT

I just got my magnesium hydroxide in (I bought 500 g) and I'll be melting down the 2 oz deodorant I've got now and adding some to it.  There's neem in it, so I guess that's cheating a bit; but, I've been using this particular iteration of it for a while.  I'm familiar with how well it works.  Adding the magnesium hydroxide will actually be good, I'll be able to tell right away if the MH improves the action.


----------



## TeresaT

Gaisy59 said:


> I just dont understand why my babassu is so rock solid! Im so frustrated!



Is is cold where you are?  That could be a contributing factor.  When mine is hard like that, I just pop it out of the container and rub it on the underarms.  If I get too much product on there, I just rub it in with my fingers.  At first, I found this to be annoying because if I was going to use a solid form, I didn't think I should have to rub it in.  However, I've just gotten used to it by now and it's NBD.  Once I figure out exactly what combination of babassu and other ingredients are that works best for me, I'll use the deodorant sticks.  I'll have to refrigerate them in the summer, but that's kind of refreshing if you think about it.


----------



## Gaisy59

Teresa T you have done it again!!  Yes it is cold here, I live in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada and we have hit winter!  But you are amazing!  I will shave down the sides until it fits into my container and just pop it out and rub it on.  I love you!!!  

To everyone else following this thread, I have been using the babassu and Mg hydroxide and it works!.  I have de funkiest pits without deodorant, but this is working great and now thanks to Teresa I will do a little magic and pretend it is a stick. Not sure what will happen in summer, but I think it will stay harder than where you folks live, and if camping I will keep it in cooler.

Last question, would essential oils stain?  I know Teresa uses neem, but I am thinking about other scents.  I have no problem with unscented but my daughter would love a scent.

Thanks to all!


----------



## TeresaT

Gaisy, yay!!  problem solved.  Glad it's all worked out.  I'm thinking about adding fragrance oil(s) to the combo when my current supply ends.  I've got 85 or so different ones to choose from, so why not?


----------



## BattleGnome

I add tea tree and lavender to my concoction, partly for extra antibacterial defense and part because I like the scent. So far I have no issues with clothing colors but I do not wear much white. I have a lot of dark colored shirts and there is no residue that I can tell.


----------



## redhead1226

*Debate*

I am having a so-called discussion, maybe an argument soon with a soaper on a FB group. He made a "deodorant soap" and is telling everyone they can use it as a deodorant instead of deodorant! That some of his men friends (customers) are saying that they wanted him to make a soap that lasted and kept them fresh lol. He said he used the BB deodorant additive. I explained to him in my opinion on that no soap is going to be a deodorant. That it can get rid of the funk of BO because your washing yourself. But he is saying no that isnt true. I need some help here as I have exhausted my explanation. I told him its a wash off product what does he expect to stay on them? Aren't I correct? Or am I missing something with this BB additive?


----------



## DeeAnna

I think you're probably wasting your breath, Redhead, even though I agree with your point of view. 

I get the distinct impression the debate is going nowhere useful, which is often the case with most online disagreements. Continuing to argue, no matter how correct your information may be, will do nothing to change the other person's point of view. 

My gentle advice is to let it go.


----------



## redhead1226

Thank you DeAnna - I did - obviously not worth my time frankly- I just get annoyed I guess with the new people in the soaping world and really there are quite a few.... that make ridiculous claims and put equally ridiculous additives in their soap. I'm really into the "normal" ingredients. Yes I have added some things to my soap and created recipes that I think will achieve what Im looking for but also have trashed a lot of recipes where I actually achieved nothing! But I'm seeing it more and more and I just got disgusted. But I came here to ask because maybe there is something Im missing with the deodorant additive from BB. In a lotion or creme maybe but not a soap. lol


----------



## Gaisy59

Just an update here...i have been using Teresa's babassu and Mg hydroxide for a bit now and i am loving it. No complaints so far from others. I am finding that it does not last overnight on my right sided funky pit though but that is just me. Do you think i could up the Mg a bit to make a difference or should i leave well enough alone?


----------



## Marshall

Fun facts with homemade deodorant.... I am still using the Babassu/Arrow root/Baking soda mix poured into an Altoids tin. Typically a few quick swirlies  with 3 fingers will melt off enough for application. Our heat went out Friday night, woke up this morning to an outside temp in the low 20s with an inside temp of around 50ish. I would have had better luck rubbing a hole in a cinderblock than getting it to melt this morning :neutral:


----------



## TeresaT

Gaisy59 said:


> Just an update here...i have been using Teresa's babassu and Mg hydroxide for a bit now and i am loving it. No complaints so far from others. I am finding that it does not last overnight on my right sided funky pit though but that is just me. Do you think i could up the Mg a bit to make a difference or should i leave well enough alone?


 
I would just leave well enough alone if it were me (and have, actually).  I have one stinkier pit than the other and ended up googling it.  I think I posted about this earlier in this thread.  It turns out most of us do have one stinkier pit than the other (kind of like one foot is bigger than the other).  I forget the exact reason behind it, I'd have to look it up again, but I've learned to just deal with it.  If it really bothers you, try putting some deodorant on at night before you go to bed to see if that helps before you start mucking about with the Mg.  

I finally have a stained shirt!!  Not that I'm excited about it, especially since it was an expensive T-shirt, too.  However, I noticed the pits on a shirt were stained when I was doing laundry yesterday.  That is the only shirt that is stained.  And I do remember being in a hurry getting dressed and not bothering to wait until the oil was absorbed into the skin.  However, to be honest, I think it has more to do with the neem oil than the babassu oil.   Since this is a shirt I won't be wearing outside of the house ever again, I'm going to experiment with some babassu and neem oils and see how badly each of them stains the shirt.  I'll add that to the list of stuff I've got to do.


----------



## IrishLass

TeresaT said:


> It turns out most of us do have one stinkier pit than the other (kind of like one foot is bigger than the other).


 
I have one pit stinkier than the other. Funny thing is that sometimes they switch. lol



			
				TeresaT said:
			
		

> I'm going to experiment with some babassu and neem oils and see how badly each of them stains the shirt. I'll add that to the list of stuff I've got to do.


 
So far, so good with mine (still not getting any stains on any of my shirts/blouses from my babassu oil).


IrishLass


----------



## earlene

*Scenting came back or my nose was off that day*



IrishLass said:


> I'm glad you brought scenting up, Earlene. So far, I have not added any scent to my concoction, but the other day I was debating with myself whether it would be a good idea or not. After reading your post, I'm leaning towards probably not such a good idea (at least for me anyway).
> 
> Re: then staining: Do you think it was the lemongrass EO in the artisan deodorant you bought that stained your shirt or the deodorant itself?
> 
> 
> IrishLass



*IrishLass*, I've been meaning to update you on this, but kept forgetting.  Anyway, while I was in Branson having my soapmaking marathon, I noticed I could smell the teakwood & cardamom FO again in my (green) MOM.  It made me wonder if the scent came back or if (probably more likely) my sinuses were acting up the week I made that original post.  I don't remember being sickish at all, but that doesn't mean my sinuses may not have been inflamed or some such.  It happens.

I still have some of this green MOM in the original FO bottle and I can still smell it when I open the bottle and spread it on my underarms.  I don't think the fragrance lasts long, but it is definitely still there.  

What's interesting though is that the color intensity has increased.  It was just green to start, now it's a deeper color.  Not pure green as you see in a pinewood forest, but more of a blue-ish green, but deeper than it was to start.


----------



## TeresaT

Gaisy59 said:


> Just an update here...i have been using Teresa's babassu and Mg hydroxide for a bit now and i am loving it. No complaints so far from others. I am finding that it does not last overnight on my right sided funky pit though but that is just me. Do you think i could up the Mg a bit to make a difference or should i leave well enough alone?



BTW:  that's not my recipe, I believe IrishLass started the Mg Hydroxide in the babassu oil.  I've actually never heard of Mg Hydroxide until it was mentioned here.  I bought some (from the link provided) but haven't used it yet.  I'm still working on my neem-babassu combination.  As an aside, I'm glad I added the neem oil to the babassu.  

I used a soap that I received from an acquaintance that had coffee grinds in it.  The soap ended up being scratchier than I realized and I scratched my right arm pit.  That quickly got tossed to the side and I finished showering with a smoother soap.  I didn't think the scratch was that bad until I was drying off and that thing hurt like all get out. It looked like a cat scratched me.  I was reluctant to put any deodorant on, then remembered neem and babassu oils have antibacterial qualities and that's the reason I'm using them instead of commercial products.  DUH!!  

Anyway, the scratch was healed two days later.  I can still see a tiny line where the coffee grounds cut into my skin, but the pain and irritation are gone.  I'll probably end up with a slight scar (I scar very easily) but the neem helped heal the scratch quickly.  I don't like the smell of neem oil, but I definitely like the benefits of neem oil.  I had serious (deep) cracks on my right heel that were painful and made walking irritating.  I grabbed the neem and put it on before I went to sleep and again before I put on my socks.  The crack was healed enough in two days that it did not hurt anymore to walk or if I pressed on it.    I just wish there was something that could cover that rank smell.


----------



## Gaisy59

My apologies IrishLass...with all the back and forth i lost track of who made what. Your invention is still working for me


----------



## Gaisy59

Marshall said:


> Fun facts with homemade deodorant.... I am still using the Babassu/Arrow root/Baking soda mix poured into an Altoids tin. Typically a few quick swirlies  with 3 fingers will melt off enough for application. Our heat went out Friday night, woke up this morning to an outside temp in the low 20s with an inside temp of around 50ish. I would have had better luck rubbing a hole in a cinderblock than getting it to melt this morning :neutral:



Very sorry for your difficulties Marshall! As you know i have the same issue all the time. I feel your frustration.


----------



## BeesKnees

I wanted to chime in now that I have been using the magnesium hydroxide-babassu concoction deodorant for a few weeks.  I don't have a specific recipe of how much of each, as I've been mixing it up day by day, for the most part, and applying it first thing in the morning.  A few days I've even just applied some magnesium hydroxide only.  No problems, no irritation, no funk.  I'm calling this combination a winner for me and my body chemistry.  My underarm skin is certainly much happier with it!


----------



## Scooter

TeresaT said:


> I used a soap that I received from an acquaintance that had coffee grinds in it.  The soap ended up being scratchier than I realized and I scratched my right arm pit.... It looked like a cat scratched me.



Wow, that's crazy. Did you give any feedback to the soap maker? I'm sorry that happened but glad you had the neem soap to deal with it.

Scooter


----------



## BattleGnome

An observation after spending the holidays away.

Just before Christmas we spend ten days with my mother in law, one of her cats like to eat soap so I was using a store bought body wash (soft soap) with my usual arrangement of deodorant. I thought it was travel stress, but I found myself stinking more by the end of the day than usual. After we got home the stink got worse, at the end of the work day I was stinking through a heavy sweatshirt. Then I noticed I had red marks under my arms that would sting when I applied my eo blend. I switched to using the gentlest soap I have (100% lard) and plain MOM for a few days, my skin feels back to normal and I'm normal levels of stinky.

I'm figuring to was probably a combination of travel stress and then jumping into house sitting and a 8 day work week or a previously unknown sensitivity to soft soap (though it was the brand I used to use before learning cp). I was just wondering if anyone else had an instance of needing to return to a commercial product and noticing extra stink or if it was a case of stress and sensitivity. (Just trying to narrow it down. I have a feeling I'll be experimenting with liquid soap making soon to prevent this)


----------



## TeresaT

Scooter said:


> Wow, that's crazy. Did you give any feedback to the soap maker? I'm sorry that happened but glad you had the neem soap to deal with it.
> 
> Scooter



No, since it was my own fault.  It's a "kitchen" soap and I used it in the shower.  Not the smartest idea.  I was actually using it at the bathroom sink since I've already got about 12 bars at my kitchen sink.  I decided to try it in the shower to see if a coffee based soap worked well as a deodorant soap.  If it can get garlic off your hands, why not?  Apparently, those coffee grounds embedded themselves in my washcloth.  I'm not the gentlest of scrubbers when showering...

If it was a soap that was designed to be used in the shower, I definitely would have told her.  However, since I'm the one at fault, no sense worrying her.


----------



## earlene

BattleGnome said:


> An observation after spending the holidays away.
> 
> Just before Christmas we spend ten days with my mother in law, one of her cats like to eat soap so I was using a store bought body wash (soft soap) with my usual arrangement of deodorant. I thought it was travel stress, but I found myself stinking more by the end of the day than usual. After we got home the stink got worse, at the end of the work day I was stinking through a heavy sweatshirt. Then I noticed I had red marks under my arms that would sting when I applied my eo blend. I switched to using the gentlest soap I have (100% lard) and plain MOM for a few days, my skin feels back to normal and I'm normal levels of stinky.
> 
> I'm figuring to was probably a combination of travel stress and then jumping into house sitting and a 8 day work week or a previously unknown sensitivity to soft soap (though it was the brand I used to use before learning cp). I was just wondering if anyone else had an instance of needing to return to a commercial product and noticing extra stink or if it was a case of stress and sensitivity. (Just trying to narrow it down. I have a feeling I'll be experimenting with liquid soap making soon to prevent this)



I did have a similar experience although not with a liquid commercial soap.  It was with a hard bar commercial soap, however.  I was also traveling so considered it could be related to travel stress.  But I travel all the time, so don't know if I can actually attribute anything to travel stress any more than normal stress.  IMO in my case, I really think it had more to do with the commercial soap and it's affect on the integumentary system (skin as an organ, which it is, btw).  But then I thought about another factor...

What about diet?  Sometimes dietary changes alter the fine balance of body odor as well.  During travel, dietary changes are common, at least for me.  When I am at home I don't eat in fast food restaurants.  When I travel, I do.  Otherwise I'd have to cook at rest areas, and that's not at all convenient and often frowned upon.  I used to prepare all my on-the-road meals and snacks ahead of time, but I just don't bother with that anymore as it is so time and space consuming.  So I eat veggie burgers at Burger King or potato tacos at Taco Bell.  Sometimes even french fries, or potato chips, which are never allowed in the house most of the time.  Once I get where I'm going, my diet is still altered because, either I am not the one cooking, or I don't have all the same ingredients I would normally have at home so cook and eat differently than when I am at home.  So travel diet will affect what my glands are sweating out.  

So yes, I suppose it probably is travel-related when this happens.  But is it the diet and not the soap?   I think it's probably a bit of both.  The purpose of skin is to safeguard the rest of the body by performing as an intact encasement as well as to regulate heat.  When it is compromised by being too dry (as what happens to my skin over time when I use commercial soap) or cut or whatnot, it can't do as good a job as intended, so in that regard I believe the soap plays a part in the process.  Mainly because dry skin wants moisture and sweat is moist, so the dry armpits and other body parts may try to re-absorb some of the smelly sweat.  That's what I think happens.  Diet, of course, also plays a part because the food has to be processed and in that process we produce certain odors which we expel through our skin (example: when we eat garlic or onions or asparagus, etc.)  

But in your case, the redness and stinging would indicate a new sensitivity to something like the liquid soap or some additive in the liquid soap.  Maybe the formulation has changed since you last used it or maybe it is a newly developed sensitivity to an ingredient in it all along.  I would look at the ingredient list and use that for comparison purposes if you do start making your own liquid soap.

Just some rambling thoughts on my part.  I could be totally off on all of this.


----------



## TeresaT

^^or you could be totally dead on!!   Very good ideas and food for thought!


----------



## BattleGnome

Thanks Earlene, I hadn't given diet much consideration. I'm only now starting to get back to my usual diet (it's been a week) but I know I definitely ate more on vacation than I usually do.


----------



## TeresaT

Look what I did today! (Well, yesterday and today.  I made the deo yesterday and piped it into the containers.  I put labels on them today.)  I'm going to give these to a couple of friends to try out.  I finally did the Mg(OH)2.   I used 306 grams babassu and 250 grams Mg(OH)2.  I had only purchased an 8 oz bag of the Mg(OH)2 so I used it all.  I was going for IL's 50/50 recipe, but didn't feel like melting the oil then reweighing it.  Once they were mixed, I zapped them with my (food) stick blender to make a nice creamy concoction.  I started to fill the tubes with a spoon and gave up on that because it was too thick.  I put the blend into a small plastic baggie and snipped the end.  It worked wonders!!  Each one is about 1.35 oz (40 g).  It's enough for a few weeks depending on how much the person decides to use.  I really like this formula much better than just the oils because putting it on is not as greasy and absorbs much faster.   Also, I put the deo on after my morning shower yesterday and there was no odor at all by the time I went to bed.  I put a little bit on before bed and woke up smelling good.  No funky odor at all.  Haven't had a shower today and didn't put any more on and still don't stink.  I'm definitely hooked on the Mg(OH)2 and babassu combo.  There is no need for fragrance oils or essential oils to cover up any smells or use as antibacterial agents.  The Mg(OH)2 leaves a bit of a residue on the surface of my skin after the oil has completely soaked in.  I think that Mg(OH)2 residue is acting as a barrier to sweat and odor.  I know the oil combos never prevented me from sweating, but this does seem to.   Irish Lass, thanks for the awesome idea!!  This thread started out as somewhat of a joke, but I think it turned out to be a great help!! I've been without a commercial deodorant since I made my first entry.  Although the various mixtures I've tried worked to some degree, they were not as good as the Mg(OH)2.  Maybe I should have just bought a bottle of milk of magnesia to begin with; but then again, I wouldn't have had as much fun..


----------



## Gaisy59

Gaisy59 said:


> Very sorry for your difficulties Marshall! As you know i have the same issue all the time. I feel your frustration.



Btw i put the hard deodorant under my armpit to warm it up and it spreads better


----------



## Gaisy59

TeresaT said:


> Look what I did today! (Well, yesterday and today.  I made the deo yesterday and piped it into the containers.  I put labels on them today.)  I'm going to give these to a couple of friends to try out.  I finally did the Mg(OH)2.   I used 306 grams babassu and 250 grams Mg(OH)2.  I had only purchased an 8 oz bag of the Mg(OH)2 so I used it all.  I was going for IL's 50/50 recipe, but didn't feel like melting the oil then reweighing it.  Once they were mixed, I zapped them with my (food) stick blender to make a nice creamy concoction.  I started to fill the tubes with a spoon and gave up on that because it was too thick.  I put the blend into a small plastic baggie and snipped the end.  It worked wonders!!  Each one is about 1.35 oz (40 g).  It's enough for a few weeks depending on how much the person decides to use.  I really like this formula much better than just the oils because putting it on is not as greasy and absorbs much faster.   Also, I put the deo on after my morning shower yesterday and there was no odor at all by the time I went to bed.  I put a little bit on before bed and woke up smelling good.  No funky odor at all.  Haven't had a shower today and didn't put any more on and still don't stink.  I'm definitely hooked on the Mg(OH)2 and babassu combo.  There is no need for fragrance oils or essential oils to cover up any smells or use as antibacterial agents.  The Mg(OH)2 leaves a bit of a residue on the surface of my skin after the oil has completely soaked in.  I think that Mg(OH)2 residue is acting as a barrier to sweat and odor.  I know the oil combos never prevented me from sweating, but this does seem to.   Irish Lass, thanks for the awesome idea!!  This thread started out as somewhat of a joke, but I think it turned out to be a great help!! I've been without a commercial deodorant since I made my first entry.  Although the various mixtures I've tried worked to some degree, they were not as good as the Mg(OH)2.  Maybe I should have just bought a bottle of milk of magnesia to begin with; but then again, I wouldn't have had as much fun..



First question is where did you get the underarm tubes and second question is did the mixture stay fluid while you were piping it in and third question is once it hardened was it easy to push up??? Thanks


----------



## Scooter

Gaisy59 said:


> First question is where did you get the underarm tubes and second question is did the mixture stay fluid while you were piping it in and third question is once it hardened was it easy to push up??? Thanks



I was thinking the same exact things. Thanks for posting.

Scooter


----------



## doriettefarm

Nice job on the labels & packaging T, those look great!  I just got some magnesium hydroxide powder from Amazon so am going to try this next and compare it to my pit stop lotion.


----------



## TeresaT

Gaisy59 said:


> First question is where did you get the underarm tubes and second question is did the mixture stay fluid while you were piping it in and third question is once it hardened was it easy to push up??? Thanks



I bought the tubes at Got Oil Supplies.  However, they no longer have those tubes and, more importantly, their delivery and customer service both suck.  I would never do business with them again.  

The texture was more of a creamy lotion than a liquid so it wasn't very fluid at all.  It was like a medium-heavy trace.  It had the texture of thick clotted cream or Greek yogurt.  It was actually much easier filling the tubes with the cream than with the melted oils.  The oils leaked out but the cream did not.  Having the Mg(OH)2 in with the babassu was incredibly helpful to get the tubes filled.  I ended up throwing one of the tubes away the first time I tried filing it (with just the melted oils) because it leaked all over the place.  The tubes did not come with any kind of instructions (you're supposed to know what you're doing).  I figured out quickly you shouldn't use warm liquids to fill them.  

After I filled them, I put them in the fridge to harden so I wouldn't accidentally knock them over.  Once they've warmed up a bit, they're actually very easy to move up and down.  The lids are screw on lids, which makes it kind of nice. You don't have to worry about the lid popping off.   I also discovered that I can re-use these because they're really hard plastic.  (The ones in the photos are brand new!)  

Once my original tube was empty, I tossed it into hot water to melt all of the residual oil off.  Once that melted down, the whole thing came apart easily.  I was able to wash it in hot soapy water then let it dry over night.  That's actually a good thing because I completely forgot about weighing a tube before I filled them. Once that old tube was dry, I reassembled it and weighed it, then weighed the filled tubes and was able to put the weights on the labels.  I now have two tubes for personal use that I can re-use.  If my test subjects want to clean out their tubes and return it for a re-fill, then that will be great.  If not, they'll be getting little cups of product.   

BTW:  SKS Bottle has really nice deodorant tubes that are much bigger than the ones I bought. I think I'm going to get these the next time I order:  https://www.sks-bottle.com/340c/fin8ai.html.   When I ordered the blue tubes, they were 6 for only $5.94; however, the shipping was $6.95.  That pushed them to $2.15 each.  SKS Bottle shipping wasn't cheap either, but their products are better priced.  I didn't remember about them until after I found Got Oil Supplies and ordered the deodorant tubes; otherwise I would have ordered the deodorant tubes from them as well as the powder bottles I ended up getting.  I first used SKS Bottles a few years ago when I bought some decorative canning jars from them.  I really like their selection and customer service.    I hope this helps.


----------



## TeresaT

doriettefarm said:


> Nice job on the labels & packaging T, those look great!  I just got some magnesium hydroxide powder from Amazon so am going to try this next and compare it to my pit stop lotion.



Thanks!!  I really like the ease and convenience of the babassu and magnesium hydroxide.  It is not greasy at all and I can use the tube to apply.  I'm happy to report that I showered yesterday morning around 10 AM and used the new deodorant then and last night before I went to sleep.  I didn't have to work today, so I was lazy and didn't shower.  It's 11:11 PM and still no stink.  That is a world record for me!!

ETA:  Oh my gosh!  I just realized, today is Monday.  I actually haven't had a shower since Saturday morning.  I'm a pig.  But I don't smell like one.  I didn't have to work today so I've been busy all day doing things and it just occurred to me.  This babassu and magnesium hydroxide combination really do work!!   Wow.  Too bad I have to work tomorrow.  I might have waited to see if it worked one more day.


----------



## earlene

Okay, I have decided to try the babassu and magnesium hydroxide together.  I can order the Mg(OH)2 from Amazon Prime (500g for $17.00), but the babassu is too expensive from Amazon.  So if I go for the better price from Soaper's Choice of 7 pounds for $30, what would y'all suggest I use all the extra for?  I've never used babassu oil in soap, so I suppose I could try some.  Are there any other uses y'all can recommend?

Also, what kind of formula would you recommend?  I see Teresa went for a 50:50 mix, but I seem to recall IrishLass is using a much different mix.  Perhaps I should try smaller amounts of Mg(OH)2 until I find a mix that seems right for me.


----------



## TeresaT

Babassu oil has similar qualities to coconut oil in soap; however, it is not as drying.  I've made some soap with it and it was really nice.  I'd have to find out what exactly I did.  However, I'm thinking of doing a sample batch of salt soap using babassu oil instead of coconut oil and reducing the SF to a normal 5% instead of 20%.


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## doriettefarm

earlene - babassu is really nice in lotions and soap . . . like T mentioned it seems less drying to me than coconut


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## beckster51

I love Babassu oil in so many ways.  I am very sensitive to coconut oil, it makes me itch.  So I use babassu in soap. It also makes a killer lip balm with just a bit of beeswax.  I have been known to use it as a moisturizer.  It's a skin-loving oil and can be used in any way.


----------



## BeesKnees

earlene said:


> I've never used babassu oil in soap, so I suppose I could try some.  Are there any other uses y'all can recommend?
> 
> Also, what kind of formula would you recommend?  I see Teresa went for a 50:50 mix, but I seem to recall IrishLass is using a much different mix.  Perhaps I should try smaller amounts of Mg(OH)2 until I find a mix that seems right for me.



I think my babassu oil came from WSP since I was already ordering from them. My bottle is 1 lb. 

I definitely agree that the babassu oil is more silky and soothing to the skin than coconut oil.  It felt like my underarms were saying, "Ahhh" when I put it on.  For myself, I haven't figured out a consistent formula (which is due to my morning rush more than not caring) but I prefer the mix to be on the dry side, so more magnesium hydroxide than babassu oil.  When I let the formula veer over to majority babassu oil, it seems like I feel my underarms are damp that day.  I'm a sweat-er (haha, no, I'm not a piece of clothing so I had to add the hyphen) so my pits seem to need more dryness than soothing oil.  However, on those days when I felt like my underarms were damp/sweaty because of a heavier babassu oil percentage, I did not stink so for me it was a comfort issue.  As always, YMMV.


----------



## IrishLass

earlene said:


> I've never used babassu oil in soap, so I suppose I could try some. Are there any other uses y'all can recommend?


 
Besides soap and lotions, you can also use it in lip balms.



earlene said:


> Also, what kind of formula would you recommend? I see Teresa went for a 50:50 mix, but I seem to recall IrishLass is using a much different mix. Perhaps I should try smaller amounts of Mg(OH)2 until I find a mix that seems right for me.


 
I've been experimenting with a few different ratios in small lip balm jars that I have on hand. The one I'm using now is a 50:50 ratio by weight, which is a little too thick /dry for my likes. I think I'm going to try tweaking it to a 60:40 ratio (babassu:magnesium). 


IrishLass


----------



## TeresaT

Holy cow!  I cannot believe there are 171 comments on this thread!!  (172 now that I've made this astute observation.)


----------



## Millie

I cannot believe a member of the secret service discovered a way to defunk my pits! Teresa you are so cool! And everyone else who posted  I've just been reading up on this half year of research you all did, love it!


----------



## Dr. Bob

redhead1226 said:


> I am having a so-called discussion, maybe an argument soon with a soaper on a FB group. He made a "deodorant soap" and is telling everyone they can use it as a deodorant instead of deodorant! That some of his men friends (customers) are saying that they wanted him to make a soap that lasted and kept them fresh lol. He said he used the BB deodorant additive. I explained to him in my opinion on that no soap is going to be a deodorant. That it can get rid of the funk of BO because your washing yourself. But he is saying no that isnt true. I need some help here as I have exhausted my explanation. I told him its a wash off product what does he expect to stay on them? Aren't I correct? Or am I missing something with this BB additive?


There are possible ways he could be right.  Some commercial deodorant sticks use a soap base -- a low-solubility soap, sodium stearate.  So maybe his product isn't for washing, but an actual leave-on product.

But assuming it is a soap for washing with, I'll remind people that when Dial soap contained hexachlorophene, some of their advertising claimed it obviated the need for underarm deodorant.  Now that its antibacterial is triclocarban, they claim only about a 25% reduction in BO.  Also, soaps that leave perfume on skin make it hard to smell body odors, just on the basis of the inability to perceive more than one smell at a time.


----------



## TeresaT

Millie said:


> I cannot believe a member of the secret service discovered a way to defunk my pits! Teresa you are so cool! And everyone else who posted  I've just been reading up on this half year of research you all did, love it!



That made me laugh!!


----------



## JasmineTea

I'm coming out of lurking to reply to this thread, which I've loved, by the way.  When I first read it, I was thrilled to find some ideas on modifying homemade deodorant.  I've used homemade deodorant for 7ish years, and been mostly happy with it.

I've used a coconut oil based deodorant with beeswax, arrowroot, baking soda and essential oils.  It's been the best natural deodorant that I've ever used, usually working 24 hours without reapplication.  This past year I've noticed an unpleasant smell when I used it (which was every day).  It was not BO.  It is reminiscent of . . . graphite . . . you know, what you smell when you sharpen pencils.  Strange, I know.  I not only smelled it on me, but on other family members who use the deodorant.  

I readily admit that I have a sensitive nose.  Nobody else said anything about it, and happily kept right on using the deo.  First question: why would I recently notice this after years of use?  I thought it might be some of the ingredients, so I began making some slight alterations.  Maybe my containers weren't clean?  I thoroughly cleaned them and spritzed with alcohol.  Nothing helped.

Then, the pit thread!  Okay, I began swapping ingredients.  Babassu?  Check.  By the way, I really like the way the deo applies when made with babassu - much smoother and silkier application.  I reduced the baking soda and added some kaolin clay.  The graphite smell isn't there, but the deo is not as effective now.  I'm smelling at the 24-hour point.  Here's my latest sample:
coconut oil, babassu oil, baking soda, arrowroot powder, kaolin clay, vitamin E, lemon, lavender, tea tree, white thyme, rosemary essential oils (not in descending order - the babassu is actually the highest, by weight).

My next venture is the magnesium hydroxide and babassu.  I just ordered the magnesium and can't wait to try it!  I'll update when I have some results to report.  I really, really want to keep the babassu an integral part of it; it's just so pleasant to put on.  My hopes are up .

JasmineTea

Thank you, Theresa, for starting this thread.


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## JasmineTea

Sorry . . . I meant Teresa, not Theresa :-(.


----------



## earlene

Dr. Bob said:


> There are possible ways he could be right.  Some commercial deodorant sticks use a soap base -- a low-solubility soap, sodium stearate.  So maybe his product isn't for washing, but an actual leave-on product.
> 
> But assuming it is a soap for washing with, I'll remind people that when Dial soap contained hexachlorophene, some of their advertising claimed it obviated the need for underarm deodorant.  Now that its antibacterial is triclocarban, they claim only about a 25% reduction in BO.  Also, soaps that leave perfume on skin make it hard to smell body odors, just on the basis of the inability to perceive more than one smell at a time.



I beg to differ.  Additional scents may confuse the issue sometimes for some noses (or rather the brains deciphering what the nose is smelling), but not for all noses. Strong BO and certain types of BO (not all BO is created equal) underlie or overpower added scents. The result can be quite unpleasant.

The human sense of smell is absolutely capable of perceiving more than one scent at a time.

And then regarding advertising, in my experience that needs to be taken Wirth a grain of salt.


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## SheLion

I am so glad this thread exists! Like TeresaT, I also get pretty stinky when I sweat. And I sweat. I don't sparkle, glisten, or any of that other garbage; I sweat! And like many others before me, I have tried many of the various natural deodorants, all to no avail. Tom's of Maine should just stop making deodorant because they are so ineffective it's ridiculous. The crystals have pieces flake off and you don't notice it until you have a bright red, angry scratch in your armpit. (I can't be the only person that's done that, right?) I was using a homemade liquid formula that was moderately effective at the smell part but not at all effective at stopping the wetness. And since I sweat when I'm nervous, anxious or just one degree too warm (so basically quite a lot), something that helps with the wetness would be great. I know that we're talking deodorant, not anti-perspirant, but still.

So I got very, very happy as I read this thread and discovered that an effective natural deodorant can be made. I ordered the needed supplies and mixed up my first batch the other day. I went for Irish Lass' 60:40 blend (babassu:magnesium) and added some lavender EO both for scent and for the skin benefits. It goes on beautifully-I put mine in a mint tin and use my fingers to apply. It's so creamy and just melts into my skin. And my underarm skin is definitely happier now. For the big test, I went to the gym today; when I got home from my workout-no smelly pits! 

So a huge thank you to TeresaT, for your extensive testing and humorous sharing of the results, and to Irish Lass for the magnesium addition.


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## JasmineTea

​I am ready to report on my babassu/magnesium hydroxide deodorant trial:

I made a small batch of 1:1 ratio on January 20 and began using it the next day.  The consistency is smooth and firm, perfect for application from a roll up stick.  It goes on beautifully, unlike my previous recipe with baking soda and coconut oil.

Is it effective?  Yes!  It's winter here, so the true test will come this summer, but it works now to keep odor at bay for at least 24 hours.  And . . . no graphite smell!

My husband and a friend have also tried it and like it.


----------



## earlene

Thank you for the update, JasmineTea.   I haven't ordered my babbasu yet, because I keep thinking I might want something else as well, so the Soapers Choice webpage is still an open tab in my browser.  I plan to finalize that tomorrow (or maybe later tonight) so I can give this a try asap.  I received my order of MgOH & the deodorant tubes from Amazon the day before we left for our last trip, with plans to order the babbasu upon our return.  Then the website was down for days (maybe a couple of weeks, not really sure).  

Anyway, good to read one more positive feedback on the use of, as well as your ration.

Does your husband find it as effective as you do?  I was wondering if men are experiencing the same effectiveness.  Not to be sexist, just curious.


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## JasmineTea

Earlene, my husband wasn't specific about hours of effectiveness, but then again, he's not highly expressive =).  So, for him to volunteer the information that it works and he likes it means that it WORKS!


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## redhead1226

I made the Babassu/Magnesium Hydroxide 60/40 combo and gave it to my sons and daughter in laws. I added an ounce of refined shea butter, and a half ounce of beeswax and scant amount of bergamot and grapefruit essential oils -they loved it. I was a little concerned that it would firm up enough for a tube which is why I added the small amount of beeswax. The consistency was perfect. Thanks for all the awesome info. This was my first time making deodorant and i thoroughly enjoyed it.


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## TheDragonGirl

Sorry I've been following this thread and I read back and forth a few times trying to find the answer, whats the 60/40 combo? I've seen a 16/1 ratio mentioned for the babbasu and magnesium but I'm not sure what the former numbers represent?


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## DeeAnna

What Redhead said in the post before yours -- "...Babassu/Magnesium Hydroxide 60/40 combo...."

Babassu 60%
Magnesium hydroxide powder 40%


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## Dahila

I am looking for it and can not find decent price,  how much you guys pay for it,  My pound of that comes over 30 dollars from Amazon.  It is the cheapest
Found it in Canada, pricey though


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## IrishLass

I bought 1 kg/2.2 lbs from BulkSupplements for $21.00 on Amazon. I live in the USA.


IrishLass


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## Dahila

I found laboratory in Canada got 140 g of Dandelion root powder,  and a pound of Mg Hydroxide, will try to do it I should have it on Monday


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## redhead1226

I bought it on amazon for $21 for 2.2 lbs ( 1kg ) on prime ( free shipping )


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## TeresaT

I've been catching up on this tonight and I cannot tell uou all how incredibly happy I am right now.  This thread was started as a lark and I never expected anything to come of it.  I certainly didn't expect such good results for the babassu oil, but combining it with the magnesium hydroxide was sheer genius.  I never would have thought of that; I had no idea what magnesium hydroxide was!  I'm still using the 50/50 combo with great results.  I haven't even bothered to put any essential oils into it because it works so well.  Summer is only weeks away and that will be the true test.  However, I am proud to tell you that I have not used a commercial deodorant since I started this thread and people still stand close to me.  

Although this is strictly a deodorant and not an antiperspirant, I have not been unusually sweaty.  But, then again, it's winter (as someone has already pointed out).   I'm glad the experiment is working for so many of us and that we're sharing recipes and experiences.


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## Dahila

In Canada it is at least double
I just mixed 60 babassu and 40% magnesium. lets see how it works


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## Guspuppy

Ok babassu users: how on earth do you get the magnesium hydroxide to stay in suspensionn until the oil hardens up again?? 

Also, I must have the worst pits anywhere because it seems to *help* but I don't have the luck most of you have reported. Perhaps I need more mag h. I spoon it loosely in so it's about half the container I mix it in, but of course once the oil is added it settles. I probably should measure both ingredients by weight.


----------



## redhead1226

Guspuppy -Are you sure your using Magnesium Hydroxide? Sounds like Magnesum citrate. Is it smooth or grainy?


----------



## Guspuppy

package says magnesium hydroxide! Its a powder, very fine, makes a very smooth mix when put in the oil.


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## IrishLass

Guspuppy- try a 50:50 ratio by weight. Volume-wise to the eyes, a 50:50 ratio by weight looks like you are adding double the amount of magnesium hydroxide as per babassu, and it will easily stay in suspension.  

Now that it is getting warm where I live, a 50:50 ratio by weight has been making a lovely, soft, easily-spreadable, thick lotion/creme for me (instead of a hard, difficult-to-spread putty). 


IrishLass


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## Guspuppy

Thank you IL! I suspected the volume/weight might be my problem. I just made a batch (I use a small disposable condiments cup to hold it) and the MH seemed to stay in suspension much better this time. And I think it will actually work for me with more MH in it.  That would be lovely.


----------



## Dahila

I made 60 Babassu to 40% of magnesium, and it is hard as hell.  I am thinking about warming it up and putting somehow in the tube, very hard in the jar


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## Dahila

I just mixed babassu oil with MH and poured into deo containers, works like a charm  Next I am planing to add 5 % of beeswax 55 oil, 5 beeswax and 40 MH  will report


----------



## DeeAnna

If the babassu and MH is very hard, Dahlia, do you expect the beeswax to make the mixture softer perhaps? Or is there an advantage to the beeswax that I'm not thinking of?


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## TeresaT

Yes, please tell what you are hoping to get out of the beeswax addition to the formula.  BTW: since it has been so cold lately, the deodorant is hard as a rock and not quite so easy to apply at the 50/50 oil/magnesium hydroxide combination.  However, I keep the bathroom door closed at night so it stays warm in there for my morning shower and the deodorant is the perfect softness to apply after being in there.  For those having issues with it being too hard, try putting it near your heater or vent overnight or while you shower.  I know when the weather gets warmer, I'll have no issues at all with the product being too hard.  I might have to add some beeswax myself during the summer months.


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## IrishLass

My 50/50 mix is quite lovely and creamy/lotiony (it's been in the mid 90's here for the past few weeks).


IrishLass


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## redhead1226

TeresaT said:


> Yes, please tell what you are hoping to get out of the beeswax addition to the formula.  BTW: since it has been so cold lately, the deodorant is hard as a rock and not quite so easy to apply at the 50/50 oil/magnesium hydroxide combination.  However, I keep the bathroom door closed at night so it stays warm in there for my morning shower and the deodorant is the perfect softness to apply after being in there.  For those having issues with it being too hard, try putting it near your heater or vent overnight or while you shower.  I know when the weather gets warmer, I'll have no issues at all with the product being too hard.  I might have to add some beeswax myself during the summer months.



I did this exact combo with the added Beeswax - Im in Florida and I wanted it to be a stick deodorant. So I added the BW. Its too hot here and it gets super mushy.


----------



## Dahila

DeeAnna said:


> If the babassu and MH is very hard, Dahlia, do you expect the beeswax to make the mixture softer perhaps? Or is there an advantage to the beeswax that I'm not thinking of?



DeeAnna, I want to try to add the beeswax cause with skin contact babassu leaves grease on tube, outside of tube and beeswax may keep it together. I will try cause babassu and MH is working like a charm. Maybe cera bellina is better option


----------



## DeeAnna

Oh, I get it now. So you're focusing less on firm vs mushy (like Redhead) and more on the texture of the solid product. 

I know you live in Ontario and I'm not so far south here in Iowa (in fact some parts of Ontario are as southerly as I am), so I didn't think the issue of firm vs mushy was going to be too much of a problem for either of us 10 or 11 months of the year.


----------



## TeresaT

Redhead, so adding the beeswax helped keep the product from getting mushy?  What ratio did you use?    Dahlia, I know exactly what you mean.  If I don't wipe the product off the tube when I use it in the sticks, it gets in the threads and the lids won't come off.  I have to run it under hot water to let it melt a little.  I just ordered a bunch of deo tubes that don't have the screw tops.  They're also 2.6 oz instead of .33 oz, so that will be nice, too.  Since this formula works so well, I think I'm going to start scenting the deodorant with my fragrance oils.  I can use a different fragrance every day, depending on my mood or wardrobe!


----------



## DeeAnna

I finally made a test batch for myself. I went with 50:50 babassu:magnesium hydroxide by weight. Added EO at 1% of the product weight. I used a blend of 2 parts lavender, 1 part rosemary which is sweetly herbaceous to my nose -- not overpowering. I chose lavender and rosemary because they are also antibacterial. 

I put the mixture into a used but carefully cleaned deodorant container -- the large oval kind that you twist up to get more product. My house is 65 to 70 degrees F and the product at these temps is a firm waxy solid that softens a bit when rubbed on the skin. I'm going to remember Dahlia's objection about the product being a bit messy -- if I think that's a problem with this type of dispenser, I'm pondering a few ideas for future recipe tweaks.

As far as controlling BO, so far so good, but it's only been a couple of days and the weather is still cool. I haven't used antiperspirant for decades since I was a college undergraduate learning that shaving my legs and underarms, plucking one's brows, and wearing deodorant or antiperspirant were personal choices, not laws of nature. (I was very naive as a young woman from a small western Iowa town, and I had a lot to learn about life!) 

One thing that contributed to my becoming less naive in my undergrad days was that I was getting badly plugged sweat glands in my armpits. Every so often they would become painful and infected cysts. When I finally tumbled to what the problem was and stopped wearing antiperspirant, the problem promptly went away. I've tried antiperspirant a few times since those days and the problem comes right back, so deodorant for me is a matter of health as much as a personal preference. (I also learned back then that shaving my armpits also helped reduce BO, so I shave for that reason.)

Thankfully I don't usually have a huge BO problem, so Tom's of Maine deodorant works for me pretty well most of the time. But occasionally on days with lots of stress or on hot summer days, good ol' Tom fails me. So I'm curious to see how the babassu-MH blend works for me.


----------



## Dahila

I like DeeAnna have not real problem with sweating but when stressed up I do , and then I need a good one.  I have Jason but I do not like it,  I wonder what container Teresa ordered?  I had not done yet the one with beeswax cause I have not more containers.  They are coming,   I think the one with beeswax tiny bit may work


----------



## DeeAnna

I'm using the recycled version of this. It seems to be working so far, but I don't have a lot of experience yet, especially during warm weather, so my opinion could change.






Source: https://www.sks-bottle.com/340c/fin8am.html

***

Teresa talks about a container with a screw-off top. Maybe like this?





Source: https://www.sks-bottle.com/340c/fin8ai.html


----------



## earlene

That second one is more like the one I got, although mine are more translucent so I can see the level of product inside. I just ordered the most affordable one I could find online with a screw top lid and I am happy with the result.  Teresa did include a link to the ones she ordered, I think, in a previous post.

My niece was collecting used up deodorant containers to use for a roll-on baby-bum productb she planned to make, so re-using them certainly is something people do. I would have done so myself, but I didn't have any on hand.


----------



## TeresaT

DeeAnna, yes.  You are correct, that's what they looked like.  I didn't purchase my screw top tube from S&K, I bought it from another company.  I won't use them again, though (poor customer service).  However, I purchased those new tubes from S&K.  I haven't used them yet.  Here are photos.  You can see in the first how gunked up the screw tubes get, so I wouldn't be using that type of container again.  The only benefit I can see for that is a travel product.  If you fly a lot, that would be ideal for your deodorant and any other type of solid lotion because the cap wouldn't come off under the pressure of the plane's cargo hold.  That's happened to me, so I usually carry that stuff in my overnight bag.  The container is small enough to be in the overnight bag, so I'm not sure if there would be any benefit to that.  S&K might have larger sized deodorant containers with the screw on lids; but that's not something I would want for the gunking up reason.  Then again, there may be people that actually wipe their containers off.  I'm not that neat or conscientious about things.   The second photo shows the difference in size of the two containers.  The first deodorant containers I purchased were truly "testers."  I checked my notes and they were only 1.35 oz.   The white containers are full sized 2.6 oz deodorant containers.  I bought a case of 48 with caps.  I also bought shrink bands for them.   I've decided to add fragrance oils to the deodorant, partly because I'm totally addicted to Carolyn's Dragon's Blood, and partly because I've got so many of them that I want to see if using FO in the deodorant makes any difference in how it works.  I'm still not having any stinky pits issues, but it might be nice to have coconut lime deodorant when I shower with coconut lime soap or dragon's blood when I shower with dragon's blood.  I already make powder that I'm able to fragrance with whatever I want to, why not have multiple deodorants with complimentary fragrances so I can do that layering thing?  I'm thinking of delving into making lotion, too.  Actually, I have to, I've already bought the bottles for the lotion (and for liquid soap).  I've either got to make the stuff or sell the bottles.    I'll be glad when summer gets here and I'm over this state of constant exhaustion that winter brings me.


----------



## WeaversPort

First of all, I'm loving reading this thread, thank you!! 

Second, after an extended bout with painkillers, I have "mint flavor" Milk of Magnesia in my cupboard just gathering dust. I'm inspired to use it as more than a dust collector, though I'm wondering if it will make my armpits feel minty fresh. 

Minty fresh, non-funky armpits might be fun once we get into summer... I'm thinking 50:45:5 (babassu/magnesium/beeswax) with the beeswax to harden the mixture with that much MOM.


----------



## DeeAnna

The mag hydroxide powdered works fine when mixed with babassu (and I'm sure it will work if beeswax is included), but liquid MoM might not work so well. Being a water-based liquid, the MoM will want to separate and weep out of the fat and wax mixture unless you also use an emulsifier. Beeswax alone does not emulsify. People have trouble with honey weeping out of their beeswax-based lip balms at just a percent or three of honey. I'd think MoM liquid at 45% of the recipe would be a real mess. Also, I'd probably want to think about a preservative with a water-fat blend.


----------



## WeaversPort

DeeAnna said:


> The mag hydroxide powdered works fine when mixed with babassu (and I'm sure it will work if beeswax is included), but liquid MoM might not work so well. Being a water-based liquid, the MoM will want to separate and weep out of the fat and wax mixture unless you also use an emulsifier. Beeswax alone does not emulsify. People have trouble with honey weeping out of their beeswax-based lip balms at just a percent or three of honey. I'd think MoM liquid at 45% of the recipe would be a real mess. Also, I'd probably want to think about a preservative with a water-fat blend.



Put this way, it makes a lot of sense why Milk of Magnesia would be a bad idea in this particular recipe. I'll keep it around as a dust magnet until I find further use - or until I have further reason for opioid painkillers (hopefully no time soon! Knock on wood..)

Thank you, DeeAnna!


----------



## redhead1226

TeresaT said:


> Redhead, so adding the beeswax helped keep the product from getting mushy?  What ratio did you use?    Dahlia, I know exactly what you mean.  If I don't wipe the product off the tube when I use it in the sticks, it gets in the threads and the lids won't come off.  I have to run it under hot water to let it melt a little.  I just ordered a bunch of deo tubes that don't have the screw tops.  They're also 2.6 oz instead of .33 oz, so that will be nice, too.  Since this formula works so well, I think I'm going to start scenting the deodorant with my fragrance oils.  I can use a different fragrance every day, depending on my mood or wardrobe!



Theresa - I have used 2% but have gone as high as 5%. It doesnt need much to firm up a bit. It is starting to get very hot here in Miami so Ill see how it holds up. 5% is more to my liking. The air conditioning is always on here and I keep my house relatively cold so it has stayed pretty solid. The babassu as you know is very solid as well. I know it did help make it a nice stick.


----------



## redhead1226

DeeAnna said:


> The mag hydroxide powdered works fine when mixed with babassu (and I'm sure it will work if beeswax is included), but liquid MoM might not work so well. Being a water-based liquid, the MoM will want to separate and weep out of the fat and wax mixture unless you also use an emulsifier. Beeswax alone does not emulsify. People have trouble with honey weeping out of their beeswax-based lip balms at just a percent or three of honey. I'd think MoM liquid at 45% of the recipe would be a real mess. Also, I'd probably want to think about a preservative with a water-fat blend.



DeAnna - I have been using honey in my lip balms lately and whipping it with my mini blender until it blends in. Like the way honey butter is made. I let my recipe firm up a bit so I can blend it in. Then Ill heat it a bit after to make it a little more pourable. I have some test batches sitting for a while to see if it weeps or separates. So far so good. But time will tell. Its only a tsp in a 6oz batch but Im still experimenting.


----------



## BattleGnome

WeaversPort said:


> Minty fresh, non-funky armpits might be fun once we get into summer... I'm thinking 50:45:5 (babassu/magnesium/beeswax) with the beeswax to harden the mixture with that much MOM.



Like DeeAnna said, you'll probably need an emulsifier. I have an idea for making a babassu/MOM lotion but need to pick up babassu first. 

I currently use unflavored MOM and dont have any complaints about my scent. Before I switched I did the honey detox mentioned earlier in the thread somewhere and plan to do it again soon (it's been six months). If you want to trust the mint flavor and possible sugar you could give it a try for a weekend, but I don't know how the flavor will interact with things.


----------



## DeeAnna

Redhead -- Even if you're lucky enough to avoid separation, are you concerned about microbial growth? IMO, the added sweetness is not worth the risk to me. I harvest beeswax from my own hives, so the wax still has that warm sweet beeswax aroma. That and a touch of essential oil make a really nice lip balm without the risk and without preservatives.


----------



## WeaversPort

BattleGnome said:


> Like DeeAnna said, you'll probably need an emulsifier. I have an idea for making a babassu/MOM lotion but need to pick up babassu first.
> 
> I currently use unflavored MOM and dont have any complaints about my scent. Before I switched I did the honey detox mentioned earlier in the thread somewhere and plan to do it again soon (it's been six months). If you want to trust the mint flavor and possible sugar you could give it a try for a weekend, but I don't know how the flavor will interact with things.



honey detox... Hmm.. in my insomniac state I don't even remember anything about a honey detox. 

I do like honey though.


----------



## redhead1226

DeeAnna said:


> Redhead -- Even if you're lucky enough to avoid separation, are you concerned about microbial growth? IMO, the added sweetness is not worth the risk to me. I harvest beeswax from my own hives, so the wax still has that warm sweet beeswax aroma. That and a touch of essential oil make a really nice lip balm without the risk and without preservatives.



If get my beeswax from a local farmer here and agree it has the sweetness. nice! As far as the microbial growth - I dont sell it, strictly for myself and family/friends. But thanks for reminding me of that.


----------



## WeaversPort

Random thing I learned while looking into this: magnesium sulfate is in Epsom salt and Milk of Magnesia. Magnesium chloride is the supplement people take when they're low on magnesium because it stays in the body longer. Assuming that one doesn't have medical conditions where they should avoid extra magnesium, magnesium chloride might be absorbed nicely through the skin and used as both a supplement and a de-funkifier in combination with Babassu. 

Though there might be a period where it is important to *slowly* introduce the magnesium, in order to avoid camping out in the bathroom while getting adjusted.  :think:

Treating pit stank, slow digestion, and arthritis since 2017...


----------



## DeeAnna

MoM is magnesium hydroxide, not mag sulfate.

http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-326/milk-of-magnesia-oral/details
https://www.phillipsdigestive.com/products/milk-magnesia/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_hydroxide


----------



## BattleGnome

WeaversPort said:


> honey detox... Hmm.. in my insomniac state I don't even remember anything about a honey detox.
> 
> I do like honey though.



There were 1 or 2 other threads going when this one started, so it might have been in one of those. I wish I could remember who said it, so I can give them credit.....

Slather some honey in your pits and let it sit for 30+ minutes then wash it off. The antibacterial of the honey will kill most of the gross stuff (I think DeeAnna had the science of why) and in the end you'll smell a better. Also remember to use real honey, they get the cheap/fake stuff at work and it worries me.


----------



## BattleGnome

WeaversPort said:


> Though there might be a period where it is important to *slowly* introduce the magnesium, in order to avoid camping out in the bathroom while getting adjusted.



How you take the magnesium and how much effects what it does. There are general magnesium supplements that do nothing in your guts but still give magnesium benefits to the rest of your body. Toptical magnesium starts the benefits where you apply it then soaks in from there. Unless you rub magnesium on your stomach there should be no rushing to the bathroom.


----------



## earlene

WeaversPort said:


> Put this way, it makes a lot of sense why Milk of Magnesia would be a bad idea in this particular recipe. I'll keep it around as a dust magnet until I find further use - or until I have further reason for opioid painkillers (hopefully no time soon! Knock on wood..)
> 
> Thank you, DeeAnna!



Perhaps the MOM would work in a roller ball type applicator. You'd have to shake before use, of course because MOM does separate in the bottle.


----------



## WeaversPort

DeeAnna said:


> MoM is magnesium hydroxide, not mag sulfate.
> 
> http://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-326/milk-of-magnesia-oral/details
> https://www.phillipsdigestive.com/products/milk-magnesia/
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_hydroxide



My bad.. Apparently at this point I'm losing track of all my magnesiums... Thank goodness I'm not formulating anything serious!


----------



## WeaversPort

BattleGnome said:


> Slather some honey in your pits and let it sit for 30+ minutes then wash it off. The antibacterial of the honey will kill most of the gross stuff (I think DeeAnna had the science of why) and in the end you'll smell a better. Also remember to use real honey, they get the cheap/fake stuff at work and it worries me.



My boyfriend is going to start worrying about my sanity. I'm going to have to start referring to him as "DB" short for "Daring Boyfriend". I don't think he realized how enthusiastic I can get about this kind of thing.

That aside, I don't think the honey was this thread, because I believe Theresa started it after doing a Kaolin or bentonite thing. I have a bunch of honey, and it's cheaper than getting yet another mad potion brewing! 



BattleGnome said:


> How you take the magnesium and how much effects what it does. There are general magnesium supplements that do nothing in your guts but still give magnesium benefits to the rest of your body. Toptical magnesium starts the benefits where you apply it then soaks in from there. Unless you rub magnesium on your stomach there should be no rushing to the bathroom.



Yeah, I am going to be the first to admit I don't really know how this ends up working. While looking into magnesia, and Epsom salts I found out that apparently "magnesium oil" is the new "magic cure" that coconut oil has been up until now given special honors for. But I noticed in some pages people talked about having to camp out in the bathroom, and did they need to adjust the recipe for their homemade magnesium oil. I don't think any of the comments spelled out where they'd been applying it though. 

I did find it amusing that whether or not the stuff cures migraines, it can help you poop but keep you from stinking!


----------



## WeaversPort

earlene said:


> Perhaps the MOM would work in a roller ball type applicator. You'd have to shake before use, of course because MOM does separate in the bottle.



I'll probably attempt my Epsom salts in a spray bottle first. After daring my MoM I couldn't handle the sticky feeling of the flavored version. And smelling like cherry mint sweat wasn't pretty. 

Luckily I didn't have to go out in public too early today.


----------



## Dahila

I want to name my deo and hate to steal Teresa name it would be not ethical,  Irishlass is the best with names,  Can I get help with it,  It is about de funk the pits 
I have different deos too


----------



## redhead1226

WeaversPort said:


> Random thing I learned while looking into this: magnesium sulfate is in Epsom salt and Milk of Magnesia. Magnesium chloride is the supplement people take when they're low on magnesium because it stays in the body longer. Assuming that one doesn't have medical conditions where they should avoid extra magnesium, magnesium chloride might be absorbed nicely through the skin and used as both a supplement and a de-funkifier in combination with Babassu.
> 
> Though there might be a period where it is important to *slowly* introduce the magnesium, in order to avoid camping out in the bathroom while getting adjusted.  :think:
> 
> Treating pit stank, slow digestion, and arthritis since 2017...



Weaver - Magnesium is only absorbed at the rate your body needs it.


----------



## earlene

TeresaT said:


> You can see in the first how gunked up the screw tubes get, so I wouldn't be using that type of container again.  The only benefit I can see for that is a travel product.  If you fly a lot, that would be ideal for your deodorant and any other type of solid lotion because the cap wouldn't come off under the pressure of the plane's cargo hold.  That's happened to me, so I usually carry that stuff in my overnight bag.  The container is small enough to be in the overnight bag, so I'm not sure if there would be any benefit to that.  S&K might have larger sized deodorant containers with the screw on lids; but that's not something I would want for the gunking up reason.  Then again, there may be people that actually wipe their containers off.  I'm not that neat or conscientious about things.



Aside from the time the deodorant melted in my HOT car trunk, I have not had any messy experience with the screw-top applicators.  

I don't get that 'gunking up' effect when I use the applicators with the screw-on lid.  I don't wipe them either.  What I do is advance the stick up only a tiny bit before use, and detract it back down into the tube after each use.  But I've always done that when I used store-bought deodorants, so it's a habit I already had.  Still, I think it's an easy enough habit to develop.  Maybe I'm wrong about that, though, since developing habits can be a very personal thing.

The reason for advancing only a tiny bit before each use is so I don't apply more than needed.  The reason for detracting back into the tube afterward, has always been because when I don't, that's when I put the cap back on a little wonky and mess up/waste product by nicking it or getting it on the outside of the container.  

I love the idea of the different fragrances.  You could end up with dozens of bottles of deodorant, though and then you're going to have to buy a second medicine cabinet just for your various deodorants!


----------



## nframe

WeaversPort said:


> Second, after an extended bout with painkillers, I have "mint flavor" Milk of Magnesia in my cupboard just gathering dust. I'm inspired to use it as more than a dust collector, though I'm wondering if it will make my armpits feel minty fresh.
> 
> Minty fresh, non-funky armpits might be fun once we get into summer... I'm thinking 50:45:5 (babassu/magnesium/beeswax) with the beeswax to harden the mixture with that much MOM.



I have been using 40% Phillips' milk of magnesia liquid (traditional mint flavour) mixed with 60% babassu oil since January and it is still holding together.  It has not separated and is very effective as a deodorant.


----------



## earlene

nframe said:


> I have been using 40% Phillips' milk of magnesia liquid (traditional mint flavour) mixed with 60% babassu oil since January and it is still holding together.  It has not separated and is very effective as a deodorant.



That's good to know.  Your weather is on the cool side, I assume?  

I also found that just straight MOM worked perfectly as a deodorant.  It's good to know that mixing the actual MOM with the babassu will work, too, and maybe in the winter I might try that for fun.

However, in hot summer weather, here where I live, I am positive it would melt.  Coconut Oil melts in my house in the summer and it looks like babassu has the same melting point.


----------



## nframe

You are right - this is England after all!  
Although summers can be hot these days.  I'll monitor what happens in the summer.


----------



## WeaversPort

Since people have been having success with MoM, I decided to experiment with just Epsom salts and essential oils for deodorant. It hasn't gone through anything like gym time yet, but my mini (week long) test shows promise, though lacking babassu.

Roughly 1/4 to 1/3 Epsom dissolved in distilled water in a small spray bottle.  
1 drop lemongrass EO, 
1 drop clove EO, 
1 drop cinnamon EO, 
2 drops lemon EO 
Oils are mixed into the Epsom salts and put in the spray bottle for easier distribution.  The water is added last, and the bottle is shaken to dissolve the salts. 

Bottle is shaken before using. 

Post-it note provided for scale 

Update: next time I'll probably just use regular water instead of distilled. Save the distilled water for soap


----------



## BattleGnome

I was using Epsom salts for a while but got sick of making it up very quickly. It takes longer to dry than MOM but seems to work just fine.


----------



## WeaversPort

BattleGnome said:


> I was using Epsom salts for a while but got sick of making it up very quickly. It takes longer to dry than MOM but seems to work just fine.



If I had to mix it up daily, it would be a lot of effort. I've been using it from the spray bottle - just giving it a few good shakes and spray it on de pits. 

And it is easy enough to spray on and let it dry while doing the rest of getting ready.


----------



## Dahila

48 babassu, 10% beeswax, 40% MH seems to absorb fast, and it is not leaving grease on skin, no grease on tube either


----------



## BattleGnome

WeaversPort said:


> If I had to mix it up daily, it would be a lot of effort. I've been using it from the spray bottle - just giving it a few good shakes and spray it on de pits.
> 
> And it is easy enough to spray on and let it dry while doing the rest of getting ready.



I was doing the exact same thing. It just takes long enough for the Epsom salts to dissolve that I'd have to prep it the day before I needed it. I was just forgetting about it or rushing to mix it up before leaving the house to make sure enough would dissolve before I needed it (my house tends to be on the cooler side and I was using refrigerated Brita filtered water). Convenience wise, it ended up much easier to decant the MOM into the same spray bottle.


----------



## SoaperForLife

*Stinky Neem Oil - possible sub*



TeresaT said:


> BTW:      I just wish there was something that could cover that rank smell.



Karanja oil is a close relative of Neem oil with the same benefits as Neem but without the characteristic odor.  Maybe someone would be interested in swapping the two and see if their deo works the same.


----------



## SoaperForLife

*Water in deodorant*



WeaversPort said:


> Since people have been having success with MoM, I decided to experiment with just Epsom salts and essential oils for deodorant. It hasn't gone through anything like gym time yet, but my mini (week long) test shows promise, though lacking babassu.
> 
> Roughly 1/4 to 1/3 Epsom dissolved in distilled water in a small spray bottle.
> 1 drop lemongrass EO,
> 1 drop clove EO,
> 1 drop cinnamon EO,
> 2 drops lemon EO
> Oils are mixed into the Epsom salts and put in the spray bottle for easier distribution.  The water is added last, and the bottle is shaken to dissolve the salts.
> 
> Bottle is shaken before using.
> 
> Post-it note provided for scale
> 
> Update: next time I'll probably just use regular water instead of distilled. Save the distilled water for soap



I know it's only deodorant but usually when we are making things and we add water to them, we need to worry about a preservative.  I don't know.... what do you think?


----------



## jules92207

I was following this thread religiously but fell off the wagon for a while so I need to catch up, but I have been using Native deodorant for several months now and I really like it, it's the first "natural" deodorant that has worked for me. I in no way benefit from sharing, just thought I'd throw it out there for an alternative. 

https://www.nativecos.com/product/deodorant-women/


----------



## WeaversPort

SoaperForLife said:


> I know it's only deodorant but usually when we are making things and we add water to them, we need to worry about a preservative.  I don't know.... what do you think?



It's quite possible, and I wouldn't discount it. My thought was with the high magnesium salt content, it might be hostile to bacteria. But I'll admit straight up that I'm far from an expert in these areas. I suppose I could always add some rubbing alcohol or something.


----------



## WeaversPort

jules92207 said:


> I was following this thread religiously but fell off the wagon for a while so I need to catch up, but I have been using Native deodorant for several months now and I really like it, it's the first "natural" deodorant that has worked for me. I in no way benefit from sharing, just thought I'd throw it out there for an alternative.
> 
> https://www.nativecos.com/product/deodorant-women/



I have a friend who loves Native Deodorant, particularly the coconut fragrance one. I think the challenge with Native might be for people who react to the baking soda. The addition of acidophilus is interesting though.


----------



## jules92207

WeaversPort said:


> I have a friend who loves Native Deodorant, particularly the coconut fragrance one. I think the challenge with Native might be for people who react to the baking soda. The addition of acidophilus is interesting though.




They have new baking soda free ones now, I alternate between the bs and not to keep the redness down.


----------



## WeaversPort

jules92207 said:


> They have new baking soda free ones now, I alternate between the bs and not to keep the redness down.



Huh, interesting. Milk of Magnesia is an ingredient in the non-baking soda mix.. 

_
"Caprylic/capric triglyceride (fractionated coconut oil), arrowroot powder, stearyl alcohol, magnesium hydroxide (milk of magnesia), shea butter, coconut oil, hydrogenated castor oil, polyglycerol-3 beeswax (cera bellina wax), jojoba esters, tocopherol (Vitamin E), L. acidophilus, dextrose, glyceryl caprylate, glyceryl undecylenate."_


----------



## Dahila

not only preservative but also emulsifier to emulsify the oils, Shaking does not mix oil with water. Adding RA will dry the skin and may irritate


----------



## earlene

Dahila said:


> 48 babassu, 10% beeswax, 40% MH seems to absorb fast, and it is not leaving grease on skin, no grease on tube either



*Dahlia*, I am curious about your formula.  How much babassu?  48% or is it 50%?  If it's 48%, what is the last 2% in your formula?

What temperature range has your deodorant stick been exposed to?  I see that it would stay solid at much warmer temps than mine does (without the beeswax).  I suppose I'd still not leave it inside a hot car for extended periods, but it looks like it would fare far better than mine did on my last trip.  

Upon further thought, it occurs to me that even lipstick and lip balms and 100% coco butter melts inside my hot car, so why would I think deodorant sticks would stay solid?  Duh!  I just shouldn't leave them inside my hot car, right?  I don't anymore, I pack them in the cooler with my food (in a plastic baggie, of course, for sanitary purposes.)


----------



## Dahila

40% Magnesium hydroxide ,  48 Babassu, 10 Beeswax there is also 1% of essential oils and VE ( 0.2%).  what about using Kokum butter instead of Babassu, it is very effective.  I keep 20 C in house winter or summer always the same temps, I would not leave anything in car on summer, Even water is boiling in it


----------



## DeeAnna

Dahila said:


> not only preservative but also emulsifier to emulsify the oils, Shaking does not mix oil with water. Adding RA will dry the skin and may irritate



RA? Can you translate what you mean by that, Dahlia? I'm confused.


----------



## Dahila

oops Rubbing alcohol there were a version of it on Soapforlife post


----------



## TeresaT

jules92207 said:


> I was following this thread religiously but fell off the wagon for a while so I need to catch up, but I have been using Native deodorant for several months now and I really like it, it's the first "natural" deodorant that has worked for me. I in no way benefit from sharing, just thought I'd throw it out there for an alternative.
> 
> https://www.nativecos.com/product/deodorant-women/




Thanks for sharing Jules.  I looked at the ingredients.  Too many of them and way too much coconut.  The idea behind this thread was to get away from coconut as the basis for the home made (or natural) deodorant.  All of the home made (and "natural" commercial) deodorants are made with coconut oil as a base and other ingredients added.  I stink; no way around that.  When doing the research, I found out babassu had some benefits to it that coconut does not, which is why I experimented with it.  It turns out babassu oil makes a better deodorant than coconut oil does.  It has antibacterial properties that coconut oil doesn't have and it is not nearly as greasy.  I'm glad you found a commercially available natural product that works for you.


----------



## jules92207

TeresaT said:


> Thanks for sharing Jules.  I looked at the ingredients.  Too many of them and way too much coconut.  The idea behind this thread was to get away from coconut as the basis for the home made (or natural) deodorant.  All of the home made (and "natural" commercial) deodorants are made with coconut oil as a base and other ingredients added.  I stink; no way around that.  When doing the research, I found out babassu had some benefits to it that coconut does not, which is why I experimented with it.  It turns out babassu oil makes a better deodorant than coconut oil does.  It has antibacterial properties that coconut oil doesn't have and it is not nearly as greasy.  I'm glad you found a commercially available natural product that works for you.




Well I like where your headed with this, I want to make my own but have been happy I have something in the meantime that isn't chock full of bad stuff. I'm still working through this thread so I can learn more about it.


----------



## earlene

Dahila said:


> 40% Magnesium hydroxide ,  48 Babassu, 10 Beeswax there is also 1% of essential oils and VE ( 0.2%). what about using Kokum butter instead of Babassu, it is very effective.  I keep 20 C in house winter or summer always the same temps, I would not leave anything in car on summer, Even water is boiling in it



I don't leave things in the car in the summer indefinitely, but I take lots of roadtrips and when I stop for a meal, etc. things have to stay in the locked car, so they get hot.  So for me stuff melting in my car is a very real concern.  Although I've never had water boil inside my car.  That's a little scary!   (I need a smiley with sweat dripping off it's face!)  

  Looking for one that fits...


----------



## Dahila

Earlene keep it in the cooler, even facial lotion can be deactivated by high temps, I mean the preservation.  50 C will deactivate Germal


----------



## Guspuppy

I went to Walmart and bought a 97¢ tube of deodorant to get the tube. (whew the perfume in that Suave deo was WAY too strong!!) The tube said the net wt was 1.4 oz, so I made up a 45% babassu, 45% mag h, and 10% beeswax mix for that weight. But the finished amount did not look like enough to fill the tube, so I made up another batch. Then, since I could not bring myself to waste ANYTHING, I added in the bit of left over bab/mag I had in my bathroom (which had been mixed by sight not weight), and some leftover melted beeswax. I had no idea what the amounts of any of that were. So it's an extremely unscientific mixture. But I poured it in the tube, put it in the fridge to harden quickly, then put it in the bathroom. I tried it this morning and I really have way too much beeswax in there. It felt like I had rubbed a candle on my armpits and I think if I use it as is it will clog my pores and make pimples. So I'm going to remelt everything and double the amounts of bab/mag that I previously put in and try that. Plus this will give me a chance to add EO for scent, which I meant to do and forgot. All the leftovers can stay in the melting cup until I need to refill the tube so no waste.   But it sure is nice to have it in a tube!!


----------



## godschild

I'm not sure about a preservative for MOM but for my magnesium oil, I was told by a lady when I called a supplier that benzyl alcohol is used for preserving magnesium in the little tubes for using in the hospital so I ordered some and am going to use that at 1%.


----------



## DeeAnna

Benzyl alcohol appears to not be effective for alkaline products -- commercially formulated preservatives I looked at that contain this chemical are only effective in acidic conditions (pH of 5 to 5.5). And it's not a broad spectrum preservative either -- it needs to be combined with other preservatives to be fully effective. So I question whether it's a good choice for preserving milk of magnesia. 

Neither of the preservatives I know of that can tolerate high pH -- Suttocide and liquid Germall Plus -- are really suitable for a mix of mag hydroxide + babassu + optional beeswax. The preservatives are water soluble and the deo mix is not.

More info: http://www.makingskincare.com/preservatives/


----------



## toxikon

Has anyone played around with adding a small percentage of other anti-bacterial oils? I have some Neem that might work nicely. If used in a small percentage and covered with a dash of FO, it might not smell too terrible.

Other options could be: avocado oil, passionfruit oil, pomegranate seed oil, praxaci seed oil.


----------



## BattleGnome

I'm rereading this thread with a specific eye towards neem oil. In the 80's of post numbers (page 9) need was brought up but immediately nixed due to scent. 

I've been wanting to make a lotion using babassu and MOM but don't have the patience/cash to place a full order. I can get neem easily in town and wasn't offended the last time I smelled it. 

Has anyone actually used neem and can give us a review? I have to flip my sleep schedule tomorrow and was figuring on filling time with quick lotion making. 

(Toxikon, I'm referring specifically to posts 80-86 right now. I still need to finish rereading the thread and double checking all the links from this thread and mzimm's original thread. I don't know if you'll be able to glean something that I'm missing. Best I've got is that it's over powering at less that 10%)


----------



## godschild

I'm glad I replied then or I wouldn't have known!  I wonder what the ph is of just magnesium flakes/water oil?  I have to order a meter so I can check it because I don't know.  What preservative would you suggest for a simple mag oil or the cream please Deanna?  What in the world am I going to do with all this Benzyl alcohol lol?


----------



## SoaperForLife

Instead of using the mag oil, has anyone tried incorporating the flakes into the recipe? Using the flakes would negate the need for a preservative I would think.


----------



## Dahila

my formula works perfect


----------



## DeeAnna

Just to be clear, magnesium "oil" is not being used for the basic deodorant recipe being discussed. The deodorant recipe is using magnesium hydroxide powder. Mag hydroxide is not the same magnesium compound that's in mag oil -- that's a variation that godschild is using. Also, can you imagine scraping flakes over one's armpits? I'll stick with the powder, methinks.


----------



## ManScent

Very cool thread, and you know... I could use something like this.  I'm an "apply deodorant multiple times a day" type guy (unfortunately), and have tried multiple products and "remedies" over the years without much change.  I'll start with the bentonite clay detox and then utilize the deodorant after that. Will be buying the ingredients for this today or tomorrow likely and then giving this a shot.  Will use 45% babassu, 45% magnesium hydroxide and 5% beeswax (year-round temps are usually 60-85F here and I'd prefer a deodorant in a stick form that can stand up to the summer temps as well) to start but will likely also give the neem and/or karanja oils (separately) a test as well, no EO's to start with.  I'll report back after using for a week or so and try and provide some more detailed feedback from a sweaty man's perspective.  Also, I suppose this gives whole new meaning to my username.


----------



## TeresaT

BattleGnome said:


> I'm rereading this thread with a specific eye towards neem oil. In the 80's of post numbers (page 9) need was brought up but immediately nixed due to scent.
> 
> I've been wanting to make a lotion using babassu and MOM but don't have the patience/cash to place a full order. I can get neem easily in town and wasn't offended the last time I smelled it.
> 
> Has anyone actually used neem and can give us a review? I have to flip my sleep schedule tomorrow and was figuring on filling time with quick lotion making.
> 
> (Toxikon, I'm referring specifically to posts 80-86 right now. I still need to finish rereading the thread and double checking all the links from this thread and mzimm's original thread. I don't know if you'll be able to glean something that I'm missing. Best I've got is that it's over powering at less that 10%)



BattleGnome, I used the neem oil right before I heard about the magnesium hydroxide.  I think the neem worked really well, actually.  I'd have to go back through the thread and read to see exactly what my weights were, but the neem was very small compared to the babassu and was still overpowering.  I think it was something like 50 g to 5 g babassu to neem, not positive though.  Once I put the deodorant on and it absorbed into my skin, I didn't notice the smell anymore.  I don't know what EO goes well with neem (and is skin safe in fairly high amounts) to help mask or tone down the scent.    Try a small batch of just the two oils for a week or so to test it out.  It can't hurt anything, right?


----------



## TeresaT

ManScent said:


> Very cool thread, and you know... I could use something like this.  I'm an "apply deodorant multiple times a day" type guy (unfortunately), and have tried multiple products and "remedies" over the years without much change.  I'll start with the bentonite clay detox and then utilize the deodorant after that. Will be buying the ingredients for this today or tomorrow likely and then giving this a shot.  Will use 45% babassu, 45% magnesium hydroxide and 5% beeswax (year-round temps are usually 60-85F here and I'd prefer a deodorant in a stick form that can stand up to the summer temps as well) to start but will likely also give the neem and/or karanja oils (separately) a test as well, no EO's to start with.  I'll report back after using for a week or so and try and provide some more detailed feedback from a sweaty man's perspective.  Also, I suppose this gives whole new meaning to my username.



Welcome!!  I'm glad you're finding this to be helpful and interesting.  For what it's worth, I live in hot, sticky, humid Chattanooga, TN, and don't have central air conditioning.  I only have a unit in my bedroom for at night.  My deo gets pretty soft and I sometimes put it in the fridge to harden back up, but it has never liquified (so far).  It's actually nice having it in the fridge and applying the cold stick to my hot pits.  It brings the body temp down a bit: instant cooling.

Another thing, as you know from reading the thread, I started it because I stink.  Or, because I used to stink.  Since I've been using this home made deodorant, my pit odor issues have been greatly reduced.  In fact, this morning I was running late and didn't shower or put on deodorant (oh gross!) and I don't stink.  Seriously, I kid you not.  I'm wearing a sleeveless dress and I just stuck my face in my pits (now that's a lovely image!) and didn't detect any funk.  I'm sure that by this afternoon I won't be able to say that, but this deodorant honestly does work.  Babassu oil and magnesium hydroxide.  That's all.  I showered yesterday morning around 7:30 am and did some strenuous stuff in the yard after work.    I was going to shower before I went to bed, but spent too much time knitting and it was 1 AM before I knew it.  So, I figured I do it when I woke up, and totally overslept.  That's really the story of my life!  Thank heaven Max had to pee.  His whinning woke me up at 8:03 AM.  Three dogs outside, brushed teeth, return two dogs to crates, got dressed, drove third dog to daycare and was only 15 minutes late.  I realized once I got to my desk that I never touched my hair.  Total bed head.  I have such class.


----------



## BattleGnome

TeresaT said:


> I don't know what EO goes well with neem (and is skin safe in fairly high amounts) to help mask or tone down the scent.    Try a small batch of just the two oils for a week or so to test it out.  It can't hurt anything, right?



I just picked up neem but don't have any babassu with no known local sources. I'm traveling for the weekend and wanted to make a quick pit paste. I sent a spray bottle with roughly 1oz of MOM/sage hydrosol ahead (I'm flying and had some lotions I wanted to gift) but am unsure if I'll have enough for a full weekend. 

As to scents, the tester at the coop smells like a edible nut butter to me (similar qualities to peanut butter or tahini). When I opened and spilled my bottle in the car (didn't realize it was melted) I immediately thought tea tree would be complimentary. 

I'm going to try a neem lotion (maybe some coconut as a filler for now) with MOM as my water phase and tea tree/lavender for scent.


----------



## ManScent

TeresaT said:


> My deo gets pretty soft and I sometimes put it in the fridge to harden back up, but it has never liquified (so far).  It's actually nice having it in the fridge and applying the cold stick to my hot pits.  It brings the body temp down a bit: instant cooling.



While I would definitely enjoy the cool feeling, I'm not exactly _awake_ when I wake up most mornings and have to rush off to work.   As such, I worry that I'll end up forgetting to grab the deodorant out of the fridge frequently.  At warmer temps (anything over mid 90's fareheit usually only occurs maybe 1-2 weeks a year, so I'll say that's my high) would you think that the deodorant would hold up well enough sitting out at this temp to use in stick form?  If so, I'll gladly skip the beeswax and do 50/50 (by weight) of babassu and Mg(OH)2.


----------



## WeaversPort

BattleGnome said:


> I just picked up neem but don't have any babassu with no known local sources. I'm traveling for the weekend and wanted to make a quick pit paste. I sent a spray bottle with roughly 1oz of MOM/sage hydrosol ahead (I'm flying and had some lotions I wanted to gift) but am unsure if I'll have enough for a full weekend.
> 
> As to scents, the tester at the coop smells like a edible nut butter to me (similar qualities to peanut butter or tahini). When I opened and spilled my bottle in the car (didn't realize it was melted) I immediately thought tea tree would be complimentary.
> 
> I'm going to try a neem lotion (maybe some coconut as a filler for now) with MOM as my water phase and tea tree/lavender for scent.



If I recall, part of the move away from coconut was because coconut stains? But I might be mis-remembering. You might be able to get away with just neem and MoM, dropping the coconut oil altogether?


----------



## BattleGnome

I forgot about the coconut stains.... I wear a ton of dark colors, so hopefully it won't be an issue?

One bad day later and I have some sort of whipped lotion.

180g MOM
19g neem
7g coconut
2g castor
1g each - lavender and tea tree
(Plus appropriate wax and germaben)

After an MOM explosion I heated everything in the microwave to condense my bowls and get stuff into the sink. The upside is that all the cleaning I've been avoiding is starting to get done.

2 minutes after pouring my small jar for travel is firm enough to hold upside down without issue. It is a beautiful buttery, custardy yellow from the neem. I can't tell if the scents compliment or contrast at this point, each time I smell it there is a different combo.


----------



## TeresaT

BattleGnome said:


> I just picked up neem but don't have any babassu with no known local sources. I'm traveling for the weekend and wanted to make a quick pit paste. I sent a spray bottle with roughly 1oz of MOM/sage hydrosol ahead (I'm flying and had some lotions I wanted to gift) but am unsure if I'll have enough for a full weekend.
> 
> As to scents, the tester at the coop smells like a edible nut butter to me (similar qualities to peanut butter or tahini). When I opened and spilled my bottle in the car (didn't realize it was melted) I immediately thought tea tree would be complimentary.
> 
> I'm going to try a neem lotion (maybe some coconut as a filler for now) with MOM as my water phase and tea tree/lavender for scent.



I bought my babassu oil from Soapers Choice.  I think they have good prices on their oils, but their shipping is killer for me.  I wait until I have a large order for them because it's more cost effective for me to pay $30 to have 4 boxes shipped than it is to pay $23 to have 2 boxes shipped.



ManScent said:


> While I would definitely enjoy the cool feeling, I'm not exactly _awake_ when I wake up most mornings and have to rush off to work.   As such, I worry that I'll end up forgetting to grab the deodorant out of the fridge frequently.  At warmer temps (anything over mid 90's fareheit usually only occurs maybe 1-2 weeks a year, so I'll say that's my high) would you think that the deodorant would hold up well enough sitting out at this temp to use in stick form?  If so, I'll gladly skip the beeswax and do 50/50 (by weight) of babassu and Mg(OH)2.



I think it would hold up well for most of the summer.   The product will definitely get a soft creamy consistency and will be easier to apply with fingers from a container than from a stick.  I put mine in the fridge because last year I had them in sticks.  This summer I'm just going to use a jar to avoid the issue.  When I made my last batch, I piped it into small embed sizes molds (hearts and butterflies).  I've got about 3 dozen of those in a jar.  One usually lasts three or four days. I put the current one on a little soap dish I have for it.   When it starts to get really hot, I'll transfer a few into a jar to keep in the bathroom and put the rest in the fridge. 



WeaversPort said:


> If I recall, part of the move away from coconut was because coconut stains? But I might be mis-remembering. You might be able to get away with just neem and MoM, dropping the coconut oil altogether?



Yes, that was part of it.  I was going to try to make a deo from neem & tea tree.  Someone asked why those two.  I ssid because of the antibacterial qualities and was told about antibacterial qualities of coconut snd it went from there.  That was actually in a different thread, but I didn't want to hijack that one so started this.  I linked the original thread that inspired the search in the first post of this thread.   There is actually really good and useful info there, too, about antibacterial and antimicrobial qualities of various essential oils.  

I'm excited about this thread actually, that so many people found it interesting, inspiring, have made such wonderful contributions to it and are still talking about it so many months after my first post.  Who knew funky pits would be such a hot 'n' happenin' topic?  Oh, yeah.  I must have...   bwahahahaha

BTW!  As an aside and an important scientific bit of information: it is now nearly 5 PM and I still do not stink.  Which is actually quite surprising to me.  I thought for sure I'd be getting a bit tipe by now.  But not so much.  I'm either fresh as a daisy or my nose is totally blocked up.  Since I can smell other things in the vicinity, I'm going with fresh as a (somewhat wilted) daisy.  And there you have it.


----------



## IrishLass

Babassu has a melting point of 76F/24C. For what it's worth, it's 78F in my house right now (with the air conditioner on- it's hot outside) and my 50/50 babassu/magnesium hydroxide deodorant that I keep in a replenish-able 1-oz jar in my bathroom is completely fluid, but of a lovely creamy consistency like heavy cream from a carton. 

I confess that can't be bothered into making it into a stick now that I'm used to applying it with my fingers. At first, it was weird because I'd never applied deodorant that way before, but I'm actually pretty fine with it now. I scoop it up out of the jar with a clean cosmetic spoon/scoop first so that I don't contaminate the rest of the jar contents.



			
				WeaversPort said:
			
		

> If I recall, part of the move away from coconut was because coconut stains?


 
Yes- very true. Coconut oil will stain, but babassu will not. At least that has been my experience.


IrishLass


----------



## toxikon

Is the general consensus that magnesium citrate won't work? I have a bag of it that I'd love to use up.


----------



## SoaperForLife

godschild said:


> I'm glad I replied then or I wouldn't have known!  I wonder what the ph is of just magnesium flakes/water oil?  I have to order a meter so I can check it because I don't know.  What preservative would you suggest for a simple mag oil or the cream please Deanna?  What in the world am I going to do with all this Benzyl alcohol lol?



Could you just melt the flakes with the other ingredients?  I have magnesium chloride flakes here that I had bought to make the oil but never did....always thought about trying it in a deodorant recipe.


----------



## ManScent

Ok, so it has been about one month now since I first tried the detox (1 Tbsp bentonite clay powder and 2 tsp water; did that daily for 4 or 5 days and used no deodorant during that time) and I have been using the babassu deodorant (babassu - 125g, magnesium hydroxide - 125g, emulsifying wax - 10g, 6 drops tea tree oil; made enough for two 2.5oz deodorant tubes plus a bit extra) ever since.  

Before all of this I was pretty much back to smelling like I did as a teenager (puberty, hockey, lacrosse and football combined to make one helluva stink), and it seemed like nothing I did made any difference - the smell was awful and was only getting worse.  I was at the point where I was putting on deodorant 4-6 times a day and there was no need to stick my nose near my pits to smell them they were that bad.  

I must say, "impressed" doesn't even begin to describe how I feel about the outcome of the detox and deodorant.  That awful smell that was emanating from my underarms was gone in a few short days and has stayed gone ever since.  I (no joke) put the babassu deodorant on only every other day and (again no joke) have, on more than a few occasions, had family and friends stick their faces in my pits and take a whiff when they have trouble believing that this has worked so well.  I'm not going to lie, it's kind of fun seeing their looks of disgust at the thought of smelling my armpits quickly turn to surprise after not being met with any of the horrid smells they had expected.   Thank you, Teresa and everyone who contributed here, you have done what I was beginning to think was impossible!


----------



## DeeAnna

I am having really good results from the 50:50 mix of babassu and mag hydroxide.  I added a bit of lavender and rosemary EOs to lightly scent it. Put it in an oval deodorant container with a screw-up mechanism. See post 206 in this thread. I've been working in my flower garden digging and dividing plants and spreading mulch, so the past few days have been a good test of this deodorant mix. Very pleased.

When the weather was cooler and my house was in the upper 60s F (around 20 C), the mixture was pretty firm. Now that the temps in the house are in the 70s F, the mixture is still a solid but slightly softer and more pasty -- it drags on the skin more than I'd like. Since I only need the barest film of deo on my skin, I'd like the product to be more glidy so less comes off onto the skin. 

I'm pondering what could be added to the mix to ensure the deo remains solid but with a more glidy texture. I'm wondering if stearic acid might be helpful to raise the melt point of the product and improve the glidy-ness -- it's used in lotions and scrubs as a thickener, so why not in this? Another possibility would be a soap (sodium stearate) made from stearic acid and NaOH. If anyone has any thoughts on this ... I'm all ears.


----------



## ManScent

DeeAnna said:


> I am having really good results from the 50:50 mix of babassu and mag hydroxide.  I added a bit of lavender and rosemary EOs to lightly scent it. Put it in an oval deodorant container with a screw-up mechanism. See post 206 in this thread. I've been working in my flower garden digging and dividing plants and spreading mulch, so the past few days have been a good test of this deodorant mix. Very pleased.
> 
> When the weather was cooler and my house was in the upper 60s F (around 20 C), the mixture was pretty firm. Now that the temps in the house are in the 70s F, the mixture is still a solid but slightly softer and more pasty -- it drags on the skin more than I'd like. Since I only need the barest film of deo on my skin, I'd like the product to be more glidy so less comes off onto the skin.
> 
> I'm pondering what could be added to the mix to ensure the deo remains solid but with a more glidy texture. I'm wondering if stearic acid might be helpful to raise the melt point of the product and improve the glidy-ness -- it's used in lotions and scrubs as a thickener, so why not in this? Another possibility would be a soap made from stearic acid and NaOH. If anyone has any thoughts on this ... I'm all ears.



I actually made a mistake above.  It was not Beeswax I used, but emulsifying wax.  I did so because of its higher melting point (~120F if I remember correctly).  I wanted to start low of this to see how well it would work and figured I could go from there.  Although temps are not too high just yet, we did have a couple days last week in the low 80's and I did not notice much (if any) difference in consistency of the deodorant.


----------



## DeeAnna

Yes, an emulsifier like e-wax or emulsifying conditioner (BTMS) might also be options for making the deo firm at higher temperatures and perhaps more glidy. Thanks for the update!


----------



## Saranac

DeeAnna said:


> Another possibility would be a soap (sodium stearate) made from stearic acid and NaOH. If anyone has any thoughts on this ... I'm all ears.



Take this with a grain of salt as I haven't tried the babassu/ magnesium hydroxide blend yet.  I have tried a few times to make deodorant with a NaStearate and glycol blend and I'm not crazy about it.  The texture is great (10-12% NaStearate), but I always end up with irritation.  I'm relatively certain that the high alkalinity of the soap is the problem.  Technically (I think!), as long as there is no water in the mix, the pH should be neutral.  But once it goes on and I start to sweat, there's water. . . .  Just my 2 cents, but I think that if a person is bothered by baking soda, the NaStearate might cause problems as well.


----------



## DeeAnna

Good point, Saranac -- I'm glad to hear from the voice of experience! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## TeresaT

ManScent, I'm so glad it's working for you!!  I think it's awesome that your family was actually willing to sniff your pits.  That is hilarious.  Did you get it on film? I'm going to have to send a batch of deodorant and detox pit powder to my cousin.  She's got a 15 year old son.  'Nuff said right there.   Your testimony about the efficacy of the products have reminded me of her recent post about smelly teenage boys.


----------



## Gaisy59

*Babassu/Magnesium*

WOW!  I have not checked in for quite a while on this thread as I have been trying to work out my deodorant up here in the north (Manitoba).  I can't believe how many people have been working things out!  So here is what I have been up to:
I tried the 50:50 babassu/magnesium but I found that too draggy (dry) on my skin so I changed that out to 50 gm magnesium and 80 gm babassu which was not as dry.  As for my mold (....wait for it....) I used an empty toilet paper roll LOL.  I wanted a stick form but didn't want to use a deo tube in case it leaked.  Well I ended up having to hold the tube as it wasn't very stable BUT i have a nice hard roung tube of deo.  Now as it hasn't hit even hit 70F here yet it is very solid.  My husband tried it one day and came upon a solution...he ran the deo under hot water which softened it up enough to apply!  I am actually looking forward to warmer weather to see hot soft it will actually get.  

This deo works!! I love it and my advice to all is keep it simple.  Babassu and magnesium and scent if you like.  I noticed a few people are just making it harder than it should be IMO.

Just one question though...has anyone noticed that when you wear a dark top there are white marks if you don't dress carefully?


----------



## Dahila

DeeAnna I made one with Ewax and it is perfect , just exchanged beeswax for ewax,  glidy and nice


----------



## IrishLass

Gaisy59 said:


> I am actually looking forward to warmer weather to see hot soft it will actually get.


 
For what it's worth, the ambient temp inside my house is currently being kept @ 78F/25C (it's been in the 90's outside) and my 50/50 blend of babassu/magnesium hydroxide is a thick and creamy liquid, much like heavy cream from a carton, or a lotion with a somewhat runny consistency if that helps give y'all a better idea. 



Gaisy59 said:


> my advice to all is keep it simple. Babassu and magnesium and scent if you like. I noticed a few people are just making it harder than it should be IMO.


 
I couldn't agree more. Mine is very simple indeed- just babassu, magnesium hydroxide and a few drops of lavender EO. I'm still keeping it stored in a jar and doing the finger application method, which works great for me now that I've gotten used to it. 



Gaisy59 said:


> Just one question though...has anyone noticed that when you wear a dark top there are white marks if you don't dress carefully?


 
Yes- do make sure to dress carefully with darker tops. There's been a time or 2 when I've accidentally brushed part of the outside of my top against my freshly deodorized armpit when I was in a rush putting it on, and I ended up with a few visible white marks on it. Thankfully, I was able to remove them in a jiffy with a wipey.


IrishLass


----------



## Guspuppy

I also am VERY pleased with the results from the babassu/mag hydroxide mix! I've been using my oval-tubed, screws-up container with 95% bab/mag (at a 50/50 mix for the 2) and 5% beeswax. I noticed if I apply it fresh before dressing that my pits will be oily and stain my shirt, but if I apply it the night before after my shower, no staining and no odor. I even skipped a day and didn't shower for 48 hours, working 2 jobs (one in a hot kitchen) and still DID NOT STINK. It's suddenly gotten hot here and today was 90°, so at least 83°F in my bathroom where I keep it. It's a little soft but not melty or anything. I just need to remember one light swipe is enough, I don't need several swipes as I used to with regular deo! Mine is scented with lemongrass and a whiff of that is all I get after 24 hours, during which I am working outdoors in the heat, or in the kitchen at my other job. The other day I spent about 5 hours shoveling dirt and still amazingly only smelled, faintly, lemongrass when I did a test sniff before my shower that night. I am SO impressed!! I add my hearty thanks to TeresaT and IrishLass and everyone else who experimented along this thread!


----------



## Gaisy59

*Babassu deo*

YES! I too appreciate Teresa and Irish Lass for diving wholeheartedly into this issue. Great minds willing to experiment and help this twit brain.

Thank you!


----------



## TeresaT

I've got mine in a deo tube.  It's still the 50/50 babassu/magnesium hydroxide and I'm not stinking.  This stuff is amazing.  I haven't noticed any transfer onto shirts or anything, but I have noticed some on bras.  Since no one sees them but me, I don't care.  I also wash all of my laundry in cold water, so there hasn't been any permanent staining.  It is starting to get really hot here--98 the other day when I got in the car after work.  By the time I got moving, the temp dropped down to 95 and it was only 88 at home.  But it was 79 this morning on my way into work.  That does not bode well as a precursor for the summer temps.  Sorry.  Squirrel moment there.  ANYWAY, the deo is still solid, but a tiny bit soft which makes it glide on well.   I can't believe it's been about ten months since I used a commercial product.  That just blows my mind.  Oh, and I also haven't used a commercial powder in about as long.  I forget when exactly I started experimenting with making my own powder, but I perfected my recipe and use it every single day.  I'm fat and have lots of nooks and crannies (kind of like Thomas's English muffins.  Or not.:think that tend to get irritated.  The powder makes sure I stay dry and comfortable all day.  It actually works better than the commercial stuff I was using.  .


----------



## IrishLass

TeresaT said:


> It is starting to get really hot here--98 the other day when I got in the car after work. By the time I got moving, the temp dropped down to 95 and it was only 88 at home. But it was 79 this morning on my way into work. That does not bode well as a precursor for the summer temps. Sorry. Squirrel moment there. ANYWAY, the deo is still solid, but a tiny bit soft which makes it glide on well.


 
Wow- I'm surprised that yours is still solid in that heat! Mine is as melty as a snowman on a hot tin roof in Death Valley in the summer. That makes me curious- do you add equal amounts of each by weight or by volume? For what it's worth, I've been doing equal amounts by weight.


IrishLass


----------



## miheypete

I've been waiting for some hot, humid, soggy DC weather before I wrote in.  This deodorant is a huge success.  Thank you TeresaT and IrishLass for experimenting, and to all the others for trying the original and variations. We had 3 days of very hot weather (from 80s to mid-90s, and it worked beautifully.  Every night at 10 or so, I do a sniff test and am sort of amazed that there's nothing but EO scent.  My formulation was for a total of 100 grams, and that filled a 3.5 oz. deodorant tube (from Amazon) with enough left over for a little jar.  I used (by weight) 57 grams of Babassu oil, 40 grams of magnesium hydroxide and 3 grams of beeswax.  Melted in a glass jar, in hot water, stirred well, and added several drops of rosemary and lavender EOs.   When it cooled slightly, I poured it into my deodorant tube, and had a bit left that I kept in a small jar.   (My notes show that 40 grams of magnesium hydroxide equalled approx. 1/2 cup, if that helps anyone!)

The deodorant is holding its shape, not melting at all, and glides well.  I keep it in my bathroom and I have the air-conditioning at about 78-80 degrees. I can also put it on right after shaving with no stinging.  I also wear mostly dark tops and haven't noticed any white film or marks.   I LOVE THIS STUFF.  Thank you so much for this crazy, fun thread and all the help.  

Mary


----------



## TeresaT

IrishLass said:


> Wow- I'm surprised that yours is still solid in that heat! Mine is as melty as a snowman on a hot tin roof in Death Valley in the summer. That makes me curious- do you add equal amounts of each by weight or by volume? For what it's worth, I've been doing equal amounts by weight.
> 
> 
> IrishLass



It's by weight.  I'm surprised it's not softer by now, too.  I wonder if these new tubes are helping keep it solid.  I actually had slightly more oil than magnesium hydroxide when I mixed it (bigger mystery why it's not melting!).  I only bought 8 oz of the magnesium hydroxide.  When I weighed out the oil, I had about 3/4 oz too much and didn't think it was with the trouble putting it back in the container.    In spite of the fact that it is getting hot now, it's still relatively cool on the mountain. It's only in the high 80s so far.  I have a lot of trees on my property, so the shade helps keep it cool. It doesn't start to get sweltering and intolerable until mid to late June.  I'm good for anothet few weeks.  Then all of my oils will melt and my deodorant will go in the fridge.


----------



## Millie

TeresaT said:


> I'm fat and have lots of nooks and crannies (kind of like Thomas's English muffins. .  .


Are you sure? In my head you're a blend of Bond femme fatale and '90s grunge chic. The Efficacious Gent always wears a scarf and a newsboy cap, downs shots of espresso and spends his time in heated philosophical arguments. KCHaystack is a tall redheaded woman with short tight curls.... oh dear. Illusions shattered! If you must picture me, I'm a bombshell with legs up to my ears.


----------



## WeaversPort

Millie said:


> Are you sure? In my head you're a blend of Bond femme fatale and '90s grunge chic. The Efficacious Gent always wears a scarf and a newsboy cap, downs shots of espresso and spends his time in heated philosophical arguments. KCHaystack is a tall redheaded woman with short tight curls.... oh dear. Illusions shattered! If you must picture me, I'm a bombshell with legs up to my ears.



Or she's implying that's she's best when buttered up? :think:


----------



## kchaystack

I'm a very fat gay man with short dirty blonde hair and a beard/goatee depending on how lazy I've been about trimming .  KC stands for Kansas City, where I lived for almost 20 years and really consider it home.   Haystack is a nickname I've had since high school.


----------



## Millie

I realized you are male when I saw the May challenge thread. Shockers! I don't know why I picture everyone - still have a childishly overactive imagination :???:


----------



## ibct1969

Just bought babassu this weekend.  So excited to try this!  Can anyone say what happens when you start using this method WITHOUT detoxifying first?

BTW, I got the babassu from Mile Hi Soaps in Denver.  $11.50 for 14 oz in case that would be helpful to anyone.  I live here so I just drove up and bought it so I'm not sure what he charges for shipping.  www.Milehighsoap.com


----------



## DeeAnna

Just start using the deo and if it is going to work for you at all, it will work. With or without "detox."


----------



## IrishLass

ibct1969 said:


> Can anyone say what happens when you start using this method WITHOUT detoxifying first?


 
I never did the de-tox, and my homemade deodorant worked perfectly on me from the get-go.  


IrishLass


----------



## ibct1969

*Whoopee!*



IrishLass said:


> I never did the de-tox, and my homemade deodorant worked perfectly on me from the get-go.
> 
> 
> IrishLass



Thank you.  I just really and really and really didn't want to put clay on my armpits... :lolno:


----------



## DeeAnna

I'm trying really hard to be polite about the "detox" stuff -- I'll just say I'm a skeptic and leave it at that. As you might imagine, I did the same as IL with utterly no problems.


----------



## Dahila

I am not going to be very polite saying that "detox" is pure BS,   People use that word and actually it does not exist in Medical Language.  I had read it countless times about changing ph in armpits.  We do not change ph that much and not for any longer period.  Our body and organs (skin the biggest organ in the body) will still balance it to keep the healthy ph.  It is trendy lately, but most people do not understand what it means....... I recommend listening to Joe Szwarz about this subject. Plain English,  easy to understand


----------



## Zany_in_CO

Sorry for the hijack... this is too funny to pass up...



Millie said:


> Are you sure? In my head you're a blend of Bond femme fatale and '90s grunge chic. ... If you must picture me, I'm a bombshell with legs up to my ears.


In my head, Teresa is a biker chic with wild dark hair, artistic tattoos, a wardrobe of black leather of course, tough on the outside; jello on the inside and a "who gives a cahcah" attitude.

And, of course, Millie, you described yourself (ahem) perfectly!  :mrgreen:



kchaystack said:


> I'm a very fat gay man with short dirty  blonde hair and a beard/goatee depending on how lazy I've been about  trimming .


Cool! You just described one of my favorite actors... Philip Seymour Hoffman!


----------



## beckster51

You make your own powder?  I am interested in your process.  I hate commercial powders, but I like using a powder in the summer.  I live in Memphis, and if it is possible, it is more hot and humid here than where you are, Teresa!  Would you share what ingredients you are using?


----------



## Zany_in_CO

TeresaT said:


> Oh, and I also haven't used a commercial powder in  about as long.  I forget when exactly I started experimenting with  making my own powder, but I perfected my recipe and use it every single  day. ... It actually works better than the commercial stuff I was  using.





beckster51 said:


> You make your own powder?  I am interested in your process.  I hate commercial powders, but I like using a powder in the summer.  I live in Memphis, and if it is possible, it is more hot and humid here than where you are, Teresa!  Would you share what ingredients you are using?



I make my own powder as well. I'm happy to share my recipe. I'm wondering if this might be a good topic to start a new thread? (I'd move it myself except I was told I'm not allowed to "move the furniture". LOL)


----------



## IrishLass

Starting a new thread is a good idea. 


IrishLass


----------



## TeresaT

I'm at work, but I can give you the powder recipe when I get home.  I'll put it in a new thread if no one has started one yet. For the Home Sweet Home swap, I added a sample of the powder for everyone.  It's got a really nice soft texture.


----------



## ManScent

TeresaT said:


> ManScent, I'm so glad it's working for you!!  I think it's awesome that your family was actually willing to sniff your pits.  That is hilarious.  Did you get it on film? I'm going to have to send a batch of deodorant and detox pit powder to my cousin.  She's got a 15 year old son.  'Nuff said right there.   Your testimony about the efficacy of the products have reminded me of her recent post about smelly teenage boys.



Unfortunately, no, I didn't think about getting video evidence   I should have though!

Update: temps got to mid 80's this last week and weekend and my deodorant turned into lotion.  Luckily I knew it was going to happen at some point, and took precautions against mess.  84F was the lowest temp I noticed it at this consistency, at 81F the week before it was softer than normal, but still more deodorant bar than creamy lotion.  I will be upping the emulsifying wax in another batch soon and seeing where that gets me.  I might try a couple different mixtures (wax at 10%, 15%, 20%) just to get a better idea of what holds up and what feels more like dragging a bar of Mr Zogs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Zog's_Sex_Wax - don't let the name fool you, it's a surfboard wax) on my underarms than a stick of deodorant


----------



## navigator9

Holy cow! I didn't realize that there were so many pages of this thread that I had missed. I've just been catching up, and it's so gratifying to see how this thread has spawned a deodorant recipe that works for so many people. And it doesn't have a bunch of junk in it!  First time around, I got to the point of the thread where MOM was mentioned, and I've been using that, straight ever since with good results, although once my big bottle runs out, I'd really lie to try the Mg hydroxide/babassu combo. I just want to throw this out there for those of you who are using some version of DIY deodorant that is liquid, and might be looking for a more convenient way to apply it. I'm loving these *refillable* roller ball deodorant tubes. The top screws off, I refill with MOM, and it's good to go. I got them a while ago, and don't remember where, but I just found some like them on Ebay. Not inexpensive, but they should last forever, I'd think. https://www.ebay.com/i/252961946942?chn=ps&dispItem=1


----------



## Zany_in_CO

navigator9 said:


> ... I just want to throw this out there for those of you who are using some version of DIY deodorant that is liquid, and might be looking for a more convenient way to apply it. I'm loving these *refillable* roller ball deodorant tubes.



And I'm using MOM (Milk of Magnesia) in a spray mist container all over before bed time after reading a post on Wellness Mama about the benefits of magnesium absorbed by the skin. As for the DIY deodorant with magnesium powder + babasu oil, it's the best ever! I was gifted with a full-size container from a SMF member and I'm loving it. I just wish I was stinkier so I could give it a real test. I should give it to one of our "boys" (age 57) who doesn't bother with deodorant (Ugh) -- don't want to be down wind if him, I tell ya -- but I don't want to part with it. LOL

ETA: Link to Wellness Mama's article about MOM spray (Too easy!):

https://wellnessmama.com/5804/magnesium-oil/


----------



## navigator9

Zany_in_CO said:


> And I'm using MOM (Milk of Magnesia) in a spray mist container all over before bed time after reading a post on Wellness Mama about the benefits of magnesium absorbed by the skin. As for the DIY deodorant with magnesium powder + babasu oil, it's the best ever! I was gifted with a full-size container from a SMF member and I'm loving it. I just wish I was stinkier so I could give it a real test. I should give it to one of our "boys" (age 57) who doesn't bother with deodorant (Ugh) -- don't want to be down wind if him, I tell ya -- but I don't want to part with it. LOL
> 
> ETA: Link to Wellness Mama's article about MOM spray (Too easy!):
> 
> https://wellnessmama.com/5804/magnesium-oil/



Thanks for that, Z.


----------



## Zany_in_CO

You're welcome, N.


----------



## earlene

navigator9 said:


> Holy cow! I didn't realize that there were so many pages of this thread that I had missed. I've just been catching up, and it's so gratifying to see how this thread has spawned a deodorant recipe that works for so many people. And it doesn't have a bunch of junk in it!  First time around, I got to the point of the thread where MOM was mentioned, and I've been using that, straight ever since with good results, although once my big bottle runs out, I'd really lie to try the Mg hydroxide/babassu combo. I just want to throw this out there for those of you who are using some version of DIY deodorant that is liquid, and might be looking for a more convenient way to apply it. I'm loving these *refillable* roller ball deodorant tubes. The top screws off, I refill with MOM, and it's good to go. I got them a while ago, and don't remember where, but I just found some like them on Ebay. Not inexpensive, but they should last forever, I'd think. https://www.ebay.com/i/252961946942?chn=ps&dispItem=1



*Navigator9*, how big are they?  I was thinking for travel it might be easier.  My solid always melts in my luggage in my care when traveling if I forget to put the container in the ice chest.  At least in the Spring and Summer it has done.  So I had thought of using Cocoa Butter and was reminded about what I forgot and that was that most other oils leave an oily residue and stained my clothing.  So have since abandoned that thought.

Anyway, I was looking for something on the small side for travel.

ETA:  Oh, my mistake, I found in the description they are 4 inches tall and hold 2 ounces.


----------



## Gaisy59

Hey everyone i am checking in from canada with babassu/magnesium deodorant. As stated previously my deo is rock solid up here in Manitoba, and my husband suggested running it under hot water. Don't do that lol! I have just been noticing that our drain is starting to clog up . So i have now gone back to heating it up with the hair dryer. 

Also, the temp here has gone up considerably and it has put this deodorant to the test with
Heat and lots of dancing at a couple of weddings. Its great! No stink! 

Finally i put my batch in a used Dove container and it didnt leak and it rolls up nicely.  Sooo very happy with this deo


----------



## ewenique

What a great read! Thanks to all who participated and shared their insight in to this natural deodorant. Now I'll have to try it, too.


----------



## TeresaT

I'm nearly out of the batch I made.  I bought a 1kg bag of MH to be able to have on hand.  I'm off from work next week, so I'm finally going to make some soap after a six month hiatus.  I'm also going to make deodorant and add fragrance oil to it to experiment with.  I have a coconut lime scent that I love and there is also a spiced clove scent I'm crazy about as well.  I've used both successfully in the bath powder (as well as soap) and I think it would be nice to have a light fragrance in the deodorant to layer with other products.  I know it's a popular selling point in commercial products, so I think I'll give it a go.


----------



## earlene

I keep thinking I'll be running out soon, too Teresa.  So I keep thinking I will be making some again soon, but so far it hasn't come to that yet.  Next batch has to have something to keep the deodorant firmer in the super hot travel conditions.  I just haven't decided what route to take.  I need to review parts of the thread that address the issue so I can make my decision.  

I used Rose FO in my last batch and at first had a reaction to it, but that seemed to go away after a week or so, happily.  I plan to try something else next time.  I like the idea you had of making a different scent with each bottle.  I may try that, too.  I am loving dragon's blood in soap, so maybe I'll try it in deodorant, too.


----------



## DeeAnna

Mmmmmm. I'm thinking you should be careful with the spiced clove FO, Theresa. Because clove EO is pretty inexpensive, the FO may actually contain the real EO, and clove EO is a skin irritant and sensitizer. I'd hate to hear "da pits of de Teresa" were irritated by the FO.


----------



## earlene

In the next few days, I plan to re-make some more deodorant, this time using some beewax as *Dahila* does so it won't melt so much in the extreme heat I sometimes get when I travel.  

But I have a question for anyone willing to report or speculate.  Has anyone tried Dragon's Blood FO in a homemade deodorant?  I love the fragrance in soap and was thinking of giving it a try in one tube.  I expect it might discolor, but will it stain my skin?  Any thoughts?

Last time I used Rose FO and am thinking of branching out to other fragrances.  But perhaps I should only make one stick this time since I haven't used the beeswax before and want to make sure I am happy with the formula before making more than one tube of it.


----------



## IrishLass

earlene said:


> But I have a question for anyone willing to report or speculate. Has anyone tried Dragon's Blood FO in a homemade deodorant? I love the fragrance in soap and was thinking of giving it a try in one tube. I expect it might discolor, but will it stain my skin? Any thoughts?


 

I actually just got done using up a small 1oz tub of my babassu/magnesium deodorant scented with Dragon's Blood FO. It didn't stain my clothes or my skin. I didn't use a whole lot of it though- maybe just 2 or 3 drops in my 1oz-worth of deodorant- just enough to give it a light scent without it being overpowering.


IrishLass


----------



## earlene

Thank you, *IrishLass*!  Very helpful!


----------



## KristaY

I've been following this very informative thread since it's inception and learned so much! Thanks Teresa for starting it (even though it was a bit of a lark at first, lol).

I haven't used an aluminum based antiperspirant for about 10 months so at least that's been off my skin for quite a while. I tried the MOM and never really felt it was effective for me. When I worked in the yard in hot temps I REALLY smelled my BO. Even though I reapplied it a couple of times during the intense heat. I did come to appreciate the fingers application though. I realized I've grown a skin tag on one pit so now I'm monitoring it's size, color and growth. Nothing worrisome but I'm aware of it. So I'm thankful for that! 

Last week I made a 50/50 babassu/Mg(OH)2 scented at 1% with lavender & tea tree EO's. Boy do I LOVE IT! When I do the math on the % of Mg(OH)2 in this formula beside the MOM, it looks like it's about the same per application. So I think the babassu and EO blend is what's more effective for me. Our house stays cool in summer with central A/C so I haven't had a problem with it being too soft. Because of that, I haven't added beeswax to it. When I travel in summer I might consider it.

So thank you Teresa for starting a very informative thread!


----------



## BeesKnees

An update from someone who has been using magnesium hydroxide for months now:  I became too rushed to do the daily mix with babassu oil so began using only magnesium hydroxide (powder) and it's been working great for me despite the awful heat and humidity here, even when I've been working outside all day.


----------



## DeeAnna

I had run out of the magnesium hydroxide-babassu deodorant and was using my standby Toms deo for the last week or two. Today was a particularly sticky and sweaty day, and I could tell it -- by lunchtime, I was offending myself and was pretty sure others might notice the aroma too if I had to work near another person. (That wasn't a problem today, but ya never know!)

At noon, I did what I seldom do -- applied a second coat of deo. Rather than use more of the Toms, I dug a fingertip bit of the MH-B deo from the residue left in the container and applied it to each pit. A large amount of the stink went away -- what aroma I can smell is acceptable to me and would not offend others.

What was odd is that I also thought I was sweating a little less in the underarm area after using the MH-B deo. I know this is not supposed to be an antiperspirant, and I don't expect that, but I'll pass this tidbit along in case others have noticed this too.


----------



## BeesKnees

Yes, DeeAnna, I have noticed that as well. My underarms don't seem to get as sweaty when I'm wearing the MH, even when I'm outside in the southern heat and humidity all day long.


----------



## earlene

And I thought it was just me!  Me, too in the impression that I am experiencing reduced moisture under 'dem pits.


----------



## Violet80

Zany_in_CO said:


> And I'm using MOM (Milk of Magnesia) in a spray mist container all over before bed time after reading a post on Wellness Mama about the benefits of magnesium absorbed by the skin. As for the DIY deodorant with magnesium powder + babasu oil, it's the best ever! I was gifted with a full-size container from a SMF member and I'm loving it. I just wish I was stinkier so I could give it a real test. I should give it to one of our "boys" (age 57) who doesn't bother with deodorant (Ugh) -- don't want to be down wind if him, I tell ya -- but I don't want to part with it. LOL
> 
> ETA: Link to Wellness Mama's article about MOM spray (Too easy!):
> 
> https://wellnessmama.com/5804/magnesium-oil/



This magnesium oil calls for magnesium chloride flakes, and the deodorant everyone is making (and I'd like to make soon!) is magnesium hydroxide. Does anyone know what the difference is, if any?


----------



## Dahila

same observation here, less sweat almost none,  After 10 hours on very humid day in Market I could smell light 'aroma' but it was already 6 pm.  What it helps me in very hot day,  deo followed by my powder, which also contain MH,  under the b, and arms,  works incredibly well .

Magnesium Hydroxide the powder we use,  Magnesium Chloride is the one you use to make MOM,  
Magnesium Chloride
This is likely the most popular mineral magnesium. Magnesium chloride is commonly found in sea water. It’s believed to have the highest bioavailability of mineral magnesiums and can be supplemented as a capsule or a liquid.
Magnesium Oxide and Hydroxide
Magnesium oxide is a mineral compound commonly found in the earth’s crust. It has very low bioavailability and is considered the least optimal form of magnesium to supplement.

Magnesium oxide is often used in milk of magnesia products since it has a strong laxative effect. That in itself is a red flag for those looking to increase magnesium levels; as a general rule, loose stools from magnesium supplementation are a sign that your body isn’t fully absorbing the magnesium or that you’re taking too much.

Unfortunately, this type of magnesium is commonly used in supplements due to its low cost.
This is what I found but I do not think it is right info about MH,  We must wait for DeeAnna


----------



## DeeAnna

"...less sweat almost none..."
"...I am experiencing reduced moisture under 'dem pits...."
"...My underarms don't seem to get as sweaty...."

Huh. So it's not just my imagination. Well, that's very good to know! :mrgreen: I have GOT to raise the priority on making more MH-B deo. DH and I are cutting and splitting wood lately and working in our yard, garden, and his elderberry patch -- all are hot, dirty, sweaty jobs. And the pressure is up in my day job -- we have several large orders to get out before the end of the month. The big orders really help pay the bills, but they raise the stress level.

As far as using mag-chloride rather than mag-hydroxide to make deodorant, I don't have any great words of wisdom. 

Mag-chloride is hygroscopic (absorbs water from the air) so it may cause a deodorant mixture to change texture and maybe even get goopy as the mixture absorbs water. Mag-hydroxide is not hygroscopic in the open air (what mag-hydroxide does when ingested is a different story).

I'm not familiar with mag-chloride as purchased -- if it is large scratchy crystals, the texture may be irritating to delicate armpit skin. Mag-hydroxide is a fine powder. 

I get the impression that some magnesium from mag-chloride is absorbed into the body through the skin. Excess magnesium in the body is largely excreted through the kidneys, but it may cause diarrhea and intestinal upset if enough is absorbed. Apparently very little magnesium from the mag-hydroxide is absorbed through the skin. Mag-hydroxide and mag-chloride are both considered to have overall low toxicity to humans. 

I guess you'll have to try it and see what you think. Report back -- I'm sure others will want to know how this works.


----------



## Violet80

I haven't ordered anything yet, but was looking at the (supposed) benefits of magnesium and got confused about the different types. I'd rather not have to buy different kinds, but sounds like I might not have a choice really.


----------



## Marshall

TeresaT said:


> I'm at work, but I can give you the powder recipe when I get home.  I'll put it in a new thread if no one has started one yet. For the Home Sweet Home swap, I added a sample of the powder for everyone.  It's got a really nice soft texture.



Did a powder thread ever get started? I have been watching for it but may have missed it. 

Thanks!


----------



## earlene

Marshall said:


> Did a powder thread ever get started? I have been watching for it but may have missed it.
> 
> Thanks!



Here it is:  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?p=647684

Three days ago I finally got around to making another tube of this deodorant.  This time I wanted to used *Dahila*'s method.  I was going to use e-wax, but did not have any.  I thought of trying stearic acid, which I do have, but went with the beeswax instead.

My formula for 110grams:

50 grams Magnesium Hydroxide
50 grams Babassu
9 grams Beeswax
1 gram Dragon's Blood FO

It took about 45 seconds (in shorter bursts) to melt the beeswax in the oil in the microwave oven; I had already melted the babassu in a warm water bath in my kitchen sink.  I mixed the rest using a whisk & poured into a clean, disinfected (with alcohol), dry roll-up deodorant tube.  It had begun to thicken up pretty fast, so I had a solid droplet on the pour spout of my measuring cup by the time I had finished filling the deo tube.



Dahila said:


> 40% Magnesium hydroxide ,  48 Babassu, 10 Beeswax there is also 1% of essential oils and VE ( 0.2%).



I don't know what VE is and cannot find it in the acronym list here on the forum, but this was my guide for my newer formula.



Guspuppy said:


> bought a 97¢ tube of deodorant to get the tube. ...I made up a 45% babassu, 45% mag h, and 10% beeswax mix for that weight. ... Then, since I could not bring myself to waste ANYTHING, I added in the bit of left over bab/mag I had in my bathroom (which had been mixed by sight not weight), and some leftover melted beeswax. I had no idea what the amounts of any of that were. So it's an extremely unscientific mixture.
> It felt like I had rubbed a candle on my armpits and I think if I use it as is it will clog my pores and make pimples. So I'm going to remelt everything and double the amounts of bab/mag that I previously put in and try that. Plus this will give me a chance to add EO for scent, which I meant to do and forgot. All the leftovers can stay in the melting cup until I need to refill the tube so no waste. But it sure is nice to have it in a tube!!



I wanted to use a small tube like this, too, especially for when I travel, so bought one last time Hubby & I stayed in Chicago (we had missed our train back home, so ended up spending an unplanned overnight without any personal overnight items.)  But when it came down to it, I was too lazy to go in search of said tube, so I only made a full deodorant tube of it this time. 

However, 110 grams was more than I needed for the larger tube, and only filled a small portion of a condiment cup.  So I went and got what I had left from another small condiment  cup that I had leftover the last time I made the 50:50 mixture, remelted  the new mixture and added them together.  It may be a better fit into  the 0.5 ounce deo tube that I bought in Chicago.  I have since gone into  my luggage to find it and bring it out so I can try it before we go to  Carbondale for the Eclipse.  That will be the perfect test for this  travel size tube with beeswax.  (I get what you said about the fragrance in the store bought deodorant;  I just sniffed it and I HATE it.  It didn't seem so bad when we had been walking all day in the heat in Chicago, but here in the comfort of my own home, I can't say I like it at all!)



Dahila said:


> my formula works perfect






DeeAnna said:


> 50:50 mix of babassu and mag hydroxide.  I added a bit of lavender and rosemary EOs to lightly scent it.
> 
> I'm pondering what could be added to the mix to ensure the deo remains solid but with a more glidy texture. I'm wondering if stearic acid might be helpful to raise the melt point of the product and improve the glidy-ness -- it's used in lotions and scrubs as a thickener, so why not in this? Another possibility would be a soap (sodium stearate) made from stearic acid and NaOH. If anyone has any thoughts on this ... I'm all ears.






DeeAnna said:


> Yes, an emulsifier like e-wax or emulsifying conditioner (BTMS) might also be options for making the deo firm at higher temperatures and perhaps more glidy.





Dahila said:


> DeeAnna I made one with Ewax and it is perfect , just exchanged beeswax for ewax,  glidy and nice



Okay, so I have used the beeswax containing formula for a couple of  days, and I expect by the time the bottle is close to empty I will be  used to the waxy feel when I roll it on.  But the idea of it being more glidy while at the same time being more solid and less meltable in the high heats I get when I travel, is really appealing.  That's why I want to try the e-wax next time.




IrishLass said:


> I actually just got done using up a small 1oz tub of my babassu/magnesium deodorant scented with Dragon's Blood FO. It didn't stain my clothes or my skin. I didn't use a whole lot of it though- maybe just 2 or 3 drops in my 1oz-worth of deodorant- just enough to give it a light scent without it being overpowering.
> IrishLass



I am really really liking the Dragon's Blood FO in this deodorant!   I used just under 1% (1 gram to a total of 110 grams) and it's still pretty subtle.  I think I could go a bit higher next time without it becoming overpowering.



DeeAnna said:


> "...less sweat almost none..."
> "...I am experiencing reduced moisture under 'dem pits...."
> "...My underarms don't seem to get as sweaty...."



So far so good!  It's interesting that there is less actual wetness. 

Now on to the extended use of the new-to-me formula with the beeswax.


----------



## DeeAnna

I think "VE" means vitamin E.


----------



## earlene

Thank you, *DeeAnna*.  I would never have thought of that.  Not ever!


----------



## Dahila

earlene said:


> Thank you, *DeeAnna*.  I would never have thought of that.  Not ever!



sorry next time is vitamin E,  Earlene.
For summertime I go with ewax or bmts up to 17% it works the best.  Beeswax is too draggy for me


----------



## DeeAnna

"...I am really really liking the Dragon's Blood FO in this deodorant! I used just under 1%..."

I made a tiny batch of MH-B deodorant tonight with cetyl alcohol to (hopefully) raise the melt point and (hopefully) add some glide and less MH to (hopefully) make the mixture less draggy. And hopefully it will still control odor. A tall order, I know. I will report back with recipe and results when I get some experience with this variant. But the story I wanted to share is this -- 

I had every intention of adding 1% of Carolyn's Dragon's Blood per your suggestion, Earlene, but my nose said STOP! by the time I'd added just 0.5%. Boy howdy, is this FO strong! I think 0.5% is going to be plenty strong enough for me. Isn't it funny how noses are so different?


----------



## earlene

Thank you, *Dahila*.  So I guess my next step is to buy some e-wax to try the next time I make this.  Since a bottle lasts me so long, I won't need it right away, but since I don't have any thought I'd ask if it matters which e-wax to get?  Since I only recall you posting about using e-wax (maybe one other person may have tried it, too; I am unsure), what kind did you use?

ETA:  *DeeAnna*, the DB I used was Mad Oils, and I am not sure how it compares as I haven't used *Carolyn*'s yet.  :-?


----------



## DeeAnna

If you have a chance to try Carolyn's, I'd enjoy hearing about your perception of the differences between hers and Mad Oils. I love Carolyn's, but I haven't tried any others, so I'm certain I'm unfairly biased. I wiped up a tiny droplet of the deo that flicked onto the counter, and now I can't stop smelling the DB on my fingertip. Maybe that's TMI, but her FO smells soooo good.


----------



## Dahila

Earlene it could be any emulsifier you have , the most luxurious would be BMTS-50 .  I have Emulsifying wax NF,  it is INCI: Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Polysorbate 60
BMTS-50 INCI name Behentrimonium methosulfate (and) Cetyl Alcohol (and) Butylene Glycol
Knowing the inci names will help you to find what you need.  I will try one with Emulsimulse too,  it is dry similar feel as BMTS-50


----------



## KristaY

I have some candellila wax I'm considering using in place of beeswax in this deo. Has anyone tried it?


----------



## DeeAnna

I'm doubtful about using any type of wax in this type of product. What people are seeing with coconut oil and the butters (shea, cocoa, etc), these tend to accumulate in and discolor fabric. The point of using babassu oil is that people have found this specific fat is less staining and easier to wash out -- even better than coconut oil, which is often touted as being fairly easy to wash out. 

To me, adding a wax to this deodorant recipe seems to be a big step in the wrong direction. Waxes don't wash out easily and I'm quite concerned they will build up in fabric without strict attention to pretreating. 

I think the better way to go if one wants to improve the texture and melt point of the deo is to look at emulsifiers and thickeners normally used in lotions -- ingredients that are more soluble in water and less likely to build up and stain fabric.

edit: Just to be clear for those who might not know, e-wax (emulsifying wax) is an emulsifier, despite the poor choice of name. It is not a wax in the sense that candelilla and beeswax are waxes.


----------



## Arimara

^^Could not have said that better myself... I do have personal experience to back up why waxes would be  a no-no.


----------



## IrishLass

I never thought I'd ever say this about a "hand-applied", crème-type of deodorant, but I must say that I'm quite content with the creamy consistency of mine, which only contains the babassu and mag hydroxide and must be applied by hand. 

Applying by hand was weird to me at first because I've only ever used deodorants packaged in either a roll-on or stick applicator all of my life, but applying by hand has become so normal to me now that I currently have no desire to add waxes or some other type of hardener to try making a solid version. I may one day, though (never say never).  



IrishLass


----------



## TeresaT

This is really interesting.  I'm actually comfortable with just the babassu oil and magnesium hydroxide.  I made a new batch this week and did 55% oil, 45% mg(oh)2. I added 4% (of total weight) fragrance.  I meant to use coconut lime, since that's what I used when I made my recent batch of powder; but I grabbed black orchid instead. I like having the scented deodorant.  I wasn't sure if I would, but it's light and gives me a bit more confidence about odor control.  At the end of the day, I'm still smelling the black orchid, not funky pits.


----------



## DeeAnna

I can understand your point of view, Irish Lass, and applying the deo with fingers is a good way to keep this recipe really easy and simple. Speaking for myself, I like a stick type product that feels dry upon application. I never liked roll on liquids or those fancy wipe-on gels (sticky), nor aerosols (antiperspirant in my face and down my lungs -- ew!!!). I'm also not crazy about finger application -- I would tolerate it, if necessary. A dry feeling wipe-on stick is my happy place. 

In my last tiny test batch, I reduced the Mg(OH)2 from 50% to 30% of the total with the remaining portion being mostly babassu (melt point about 76 F) with some BTMS (MP about 140 F) and cetyl alcohol (MP about 120 F), and a dab of fragrance. My original thought was to just use the cetyl alcohol to raise the overall melt point, but I then decided to add the BTMS to see if it would help the mixture to rinse cleanly. 

The mixture is less draggy due to less MH powder, and I like that. The emulsifier does its job -- I rubbed some of the mixture on my hands and then rinsed them under cool water. It rinsed cleanly with water and mild agitation. The reduced MH still seems to control odor -- I worked outside filling and wrapping pallets of products today and I'm still nicely fresh tonight. And I was dripping sweat on my face working in the sun on those pallets, but there still seemed to be a mild antiperspirant effect in my pits while I worked.

So far so good, but I want to give this a longer test before I decide what I really think about it.


----------



## KristaY

Good points, everyone, on the wax addition. I really don't want to deal with a waxy build up on my shirts and bras so I'll skip it. My thought was to harden it a bit but, my thought should actually have been to apply it differently. I poured my deo into 2 oz roll up style deo containers and I love it this way. I found myself reverting back to my old style of applying it, basically using a heavy and firm hand. At first I found it smeared around the outside of the container because I was applying too much. Since then I've learned to lightly swipe only a couple of times and it's all good. Once the firm babassu hits the warm pit, it quickly melts. 

I also started paying attention to my perspiration level after DeeAnna's comment about noticing it reducing for her. That's totally the case for me too. When I was using the MOM I was always sticky and could detect an unpleasant odor within an hour or two. With this combo it's significantly reduced the sticky-icky and I only notice an odor after a long day working and sweating in the heat. I'm seriously in love with this stuff!


----------



## DeeAnna

My underarms are really, REALLY sensitive to aluminum based antiperspirants. It started when I was in my 20s and I was in misery for months until I finally admitted to myself what the problem was. (I was mortified at that time to learn I would actually have to .... sweat .... to avoid the misery.) 

Every decade or so since then, I try antiperspirants to see if anything has changed and quickly learn that my pits adamantly refuse to deal with antiperspirants. What happens to me is that I get infected sweat glands and general swelling and fever in the armpit tissues -- seriously icky and painful stuff. So I go back to using basic deodorant.

As an aside -- Shopping the antiperspirant shelves for just plain deodorant is a humbling experience, at least in US stores. You might find one, maybe two products, hidden like utter pariahs somewhere down on the very bottom shelf. Unattractively packaged and overly expensive for what you get.

So back to my point -- the MH-B deo recipe is really good news. I have not felt my armpits complain one bit with this recipe, even though it does seem to inhibit perspiration. I've used my first batch continuously for long enough that if my pits were going to complain, I know they would be showing signs of serious unhappiness by now. 

:mrgreen:


----------



## Dahila

Yes I also have very sensitive skin in general.  the deo works great, the skin looks healthy, no itching or irritation.  I also use the MH as a powder, but only on extremely humid days. I wonder what cetyl is bringing to this deo.  I use ewax but had not add cetyl.  Would be it easier to wash off?
DeeAnna any insights?


----------



## DeeAnna

No insights just yet, Dahlia. I'm not convinced the cetyl is necessary -- the emulsifier may be enough.

My goals are to increase the melt temp a bit, make the deo more glidy on the skin (going lower in the MH % is also helpful), and make the deo wash out of fabrics even more easily. And I want all this without reducing the deodorant effectiveness and not causing irritation or other skin issues. 

At the moment, this is still a work in progress.


----------



## earlene

DeeAnna said:


> I'm doubtful about using any type of wax in this type of product. What people are seeing with coconut oil and the butters (shea, cocoa, etc), these tend to accumulate in and discolor fabric. The point of using babassu oil is that people have found this specific fat is less staining and easier to wash out -- even better than coconut oil, which is often touted as being fairly easy to wash out.
> 
> To me, adding a wax to this deodorant recipe seems to be a big step in the wrong direction. Waxes don't wash out easily and I'm quite concerned they will build up in fabric without strict attention to pretreating.
> 
> I think the better way to go if one wants to improve the texture and melt point of the deo is to look at emulsifiers and thickeners normally used in lotions -- ingredients that are more soluble in water and less likely to build up and stain fabric.
> 
> edit: Just to be clear for those who might not know, e-wax (emulsifying wax) is an emulsifier, despite the poor choice of name. It is not a wax in the sense that candelilla and beeswax are waxes.



My husband used to get horribly painful cysts under his pits as well.  I don't know how he survived the pain and eventual draining that would occur before he finally agreed to go see a doctor about it.  We were just dating at the time.  Anyway, for him the problem was two-fold: skin-tight shirts and antiperspirants.  Once he stopped using antiperspirants and tossed out the t-shirts that were so **** tight and started wearing only shirts that allowed some air-flow, the problem stopped recurring.  A course of antibiotics and frequent showers were also in order to clear it up, but it was ending the antiperspirants and increasing the opportunity for air-flow to the underarms that prevented repeat occurrences.


----------



## Dahila

Thank you DeeAnna,  that's awesome explanation.  I am still working on mine,  I have that small containers right now my MH is 40% and it seems to be still very effective and stays nice and dry on skin.  I will try to add some cetyl to see how it work, will report.  Right now I am comparing 4 of them 
earlene the story is a proof that we are exposed to so much not so friendly chemicals,  eh,  I even make my own all purpose cleaning solution, cause my asthma is acting up with commercial ones........


----------



## Gaisy59

Ok so my husband and i are driving to Grand Forks North Dakota for the weekend and we are talking about the babassu/magnesium deodorant and how well it works. He asks me what is in it and i tell him after which there is this big silence and he says "i thought you wanted to stay away from aluminum in your products?" I said its not aluminum its magnesium to which he replied its a derivative of aluminum. And nowww im upset. Plus i just ordered two 1kg bags of magnesium which i intend to use regardless.  Anyone want to jump in here with a) ease :cry::cry:my qualms or b) another new formula with babassu and without magnesium lol


----------



## earlene

Gaisy59 said:


> Ok so my husband and i are driving to Grand Forks North Dakota for the weekend and we are talking about the babassu/magnesium deodorant and how well it works. He asks me what is in it and i tell him after which there is this big silence and he says "i thought you wanted to stay away from aluminum in your products?" I said its not aluminum its magnesium to which he replied its a derivative of aluminum. And nowww im upset. Plus i just ordered two 1kg bags of magnesium which i intend to use regardless.  Anyone want to jump in here with a) ease :cry::cry:my qualms or b) another new formula with babassu and without magnesium lol



As I recall, on the period chart, Magnesium stands alone.  It can become part of an alloy, but that does not make it a derivative of the other metals in the alloy.

More about magnesium:  https://www.livescience.com/28862-magnesium.html


----------



## DeeAnna

"...[magnesium is a] derivative of aluminum..."

No, no, no. Hubby needs to take a chemistry class. Yes, it is true that magnesium is a metal and aluminum is a metal. BUT they aren't the same metal at all. 

Look at the periodic table of the elements and find these two metals (#12 and #13). The abbreviation Mg stands for magnesium and Al stands for aluminum. Are they in the same square on this chart? Nope. They have different atomic structures, which is why they don't occupy the same square, and that means they aren't the same thing at all.

And it's important also to not leap overboard about the aluminum-in-deodorant myths. If you don't want to use antiperspirant, then don't. But do so while appreciating the facts, not buying into alarmist theories. More: http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/features/antiperspirant-facts-safety#1

"...Plus i just ordered two 1kg bags of magnesium..."

And on top of that we're also talking about magnesium HYDROXIDE in this deodorant, not magnesium the metal. Gotta get the chemistry straight!


----------



## earlene

I am happy to report that my deodorant stick did NOT melt at all even though sitting upside down all **** day inside the hot trunk of my car in Carbondale, IL during the Celestial SuperBowl (Total Eclipse event) at the Southern Illinois University.  I purposely did not use the cooler because it was a test to see how well beeswax would work at keeping this deo stick solid in my normal traveling conditions.

I put the deo stick into a plastic baggie and sealed it up tight, of course, then placed it top side down into my luggage so that if it did melt the melt would end up in the screw-on cap and not under the roll-up bottom end (harder to clean, in my experience).  It stayed that way for several hours.  When we checked into our hotel last night (a different hotel than the night before, otherwise the deodorant would still have been in a hotel room and not in the trunk of my car), the first thing I checked was my deodorant.  It was quite warm as the inside of the car was well over 100*° *F when we came back to it in the middle of the day.   In spite of the heat, the deo stick remained solid with no visual evidence of melting.  I am thrilled.

Now that I know that, I may or may not use an e-wax, but I probably will because the beeswax is rather draggy on my skin.  Still, I could probably reduce the beeswax some and improve glide, too, without having to compromise the non-melt issue.  But in the meantime, until the next formula change I can safely say this is perfect for hot travel conditions.  It's at 8% of the formula now; I could try reducing it by 2% increments and re-test for hot-car travel conditions as needed.

Here is a photo of the stick this morning, showing the discoloration of the Dragon's Blood as well as the solidity post-hot-car travel.


----------



## Soaps_and_more

This sounds really great.
There is something called Cera Bellina out there. Its some kind of modified beeswax, I quickly googled this, but there is ton of other sites out there

http://www.lotioncrafter.com/cera-bellina.html

Its much softer than beeswax. I actually have it. Its great. Maybe you want to give it a try.

I use it in my deo, because the drag of beeswax (which I adore for many reasons) is not so nice under the arms


----------



## Dahila

cera belina is great but much softer than beeswax, and who knows in high concentration it could be draggy too,  you would need to use at least 20% to get the same hardness ( :twisted: ) as beeswax
I love Cera belina and I use in all my balms


----------



## Soaps_and_more

Thank you Dahlia (2.000 posts! Wow! Congratulations  ).

I should have probably said: replace some of the beeswax with Cera Bellina. Alone it is too soft, but together with beeswax you can get a softer consistency for your deo stick.


----------



## Dahila

Soaps_and_more said:


> Thank you Dahlia (2.000 posts! Wow! Congratulations  ).
> 
> I should have probably said: replace some of the beeswax with Cera Bellina. Alone it is too soft, but together with beeswax you can get a softer consistency for your deo stick.



Thanks,  It took 4 years, I had not even noticed  
I do not like the one with beeswax or cera belina, I use like many people here Emulsifying wax


----------



## dibbles

I know I'm pretty late to this endeavor, but I finally gave it a try. I don't mind finger application, but what I don't like is how hard it is. We did have a cool August (when it was made), but here there is really only a couple of months in the year when it could be warm enough to potentially soften the babassu to easily get it out of the jar. 

My mix was 60% babassu/40% Mg(Oh)2. I'm thinking of trying to do a stick type next, and was wondering if anyone had formed an opinion on e-wax or cetyl alcohol added in for glide. Or any ideas on making it a bit softer for my next try? I'm not likely to remember to set my little jar in hot water to soften before I shower.


----------



## DeeAnna

I used BTMS and cetyl alcohol along with babassu and cut the Mag hydroxide content (see post 336). It stays firm and not very glidy even at typical Iowa summer temperatures. We've had temps in the 80s and low 90s F while I've been using this batch. I'm nearly certain e-wax will function about the same as BTMS in this application.


----------



## dibbles

DeeAnna said:


> I used BTMS and cetyl alcohol along with babassu and cut the Mag hydroxide content (see post 336). It stays firm and not very glidy even at typical Iowa summer temperatures. We've had temps in the 80s and low 90s F while I've been using this batch. I'm nearly certain e-wax will function about the same as BTMS in this application.



Thank you DeeAnna. I have BTMS, so I can try that in a twist up deo container. Any recommendation of how much to use of each as a starting point - 1%, 2% - more? I don't mind testing to figure out what I like, but a guideline to begin with would be so helpful.


----------



## DeeAnna

I really can't make a recommendation on how much BTMS and cetyl alcohol to use. My test mixture is no different than the plain babassu + mag hydroxide mix as far as being more glidy, and that was my point when adding these ingredients. 

My current idea is that it's mainly the powder that is making the mixture so non-glidy. I'm getting good odor control at 30% Mag hydroxide -- as good as when I used 50% -- so that's a step in the right direction. 

So the melt point has gone up, the odor control is just as good, but glidy-ness ... not so much. This is a work in progress, definitely.

Edit: This is the recipe I trialed --

Mg(OH)2 powder 30 gram
Babassu 55 gram (melt temp 76 F)
Cetyl alcohol 14 gram (melt temp 120 F)
BTMS 14 gram (melt temp 140 F)
Fragrance 0.5 gram

The melt point of this mix is below 125 F -- I'm guessing maybe 110 to 120 F.

This amount will fill up one regular oval deodorant tube (the kind most commercial antiperspirants are sold in) plus one mini oval deo tube (about 0.4 ounce (12 gram) capacity)


----------



## Zany_in_CO

DeeAnna said:


> Edit: This is the recipe I trialed --
> 
> Mg(OH)2 powder 30 gram
> Babassu 55 gram (melt temp 76 F)
> Cetyl alcohol 14 gram (melt temp 120 F)
> BTMS 14 gram (melt temp 140 F)
> Fragrance 0.5 gram
> 
> The melt point of this mix is below 125 F -- I'm guessing maybe 110 to 120 F. This amount will fill up one regular oval deodorant tube (the kind most commercial antiperspirants are sold in) plus one mini oval deo tube (about 0.4 ounce (12 gram) capacity)




​ 



​


----------



## dibbles

DeeAnna said:


> I really can't make a recommendation on how much BTMS and cetyl alcohol to use. My test mixture is no different than the plain babassu + mag hydroxide mix as far as being more glidy, and that was my point when adding these ingredients.
> 
> My current idea is that it's mainly the powder that is making the mixture so non-glidy. I'm getting good odor control at 30% Mag hydroxide -- as good as when I used 50% -- so that's a step in the right direction.
> 
> So the melt point has gone up, the odor control is just as good, but glidy-ness ... not so much. This is a work in progress, definitely.
> 
> Edit: This is the recipe I trialed --
> 
> Mg(OH)2 powder 30 gram
> Babassu 55 gram (melt temp 76 F)
> Cetyl alcohol 14 gram (melt temp 120 F)
> BTMS 14 gram (melt temp 140 F)
> Fragrance 0.5 gram
> 
> The melt point of this mix is below 125 F -- I'm guessing maybe 110 to 120 F.
> 
> This amount will fill up one regular oval deodorant tube (the kind most commercial antiperspirants are sold in) plus one mini oval deo tube (about 0.4 ounce (12 gram) capacity)



Thank you for this DeeAnna - much appreciated!


----------



## JuliaB

I've been having good luck with Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar in a spritzer bottle. It couldn't be simpler and once it's dry, the vinegar smell leaves.


----------



## Dahila

Is not the same amount of cetyl and BMTS too dry?  I thought about 3% of cetyl ,  scratching my head


----------



## DeeAnna

Too dry? I don't understand, Dahlia. Can you explain?


----------



## Dahila

too dry, I mean no glide,  I need to make one with 3% of Cetyl and will see..... Bmts 50 is a very talc like emulsifier so is Emulsimulse, Ewax seems to be a bit greaser so it goes easier on skin.  That' my impression but i need to make it first then I will report


----------



## Zany_in_CO

Dahila said:


> Bmts 50 is a very *talk* like emulsifier so is Emulsimulse, Ewax seems to be a bit greaser so it goes easier on skin.


I think autocorrect created another classic boo boo.    I agree about the BTMS vs regular Ewax... BTMS has a *talc* like feel to me too, which I like in some applications, and it doesn't have the glidey feel that I would expect from Ewax.  IF I ever get around to trying this, I have some sunflower wax on hand that I want to use. Looking forward to reading your results, Dahila.


----------



## Dahila

Thank you Zany


----------



## DeeAnna

Okay, thank you for explaining. You might be right, Dahlia. I'm curious to see how your trial works!


----------



## uticasoap

*Question too much mg?*

Does anyone worry about absorbing too much mg through the skin?  Since I've used mine, I've been having headaches and bp issues.... I've been reading that it is possible to get too much mg..... do you think it could be my deodorant?  If it is that stinks since I do believe this combo works..... stopped using the mg-babassu oils deodorant today and already feeling better w normal bp...

Thanks!

Roseanne


----------



## Gaisy59

Funny but i too have been having issues. I seem to be breaking out in itchy bumps all over my body. I think i will go deodorant free for a weekend (don't want to stink out my work buddies) and see if the "hives" go down. I sure hope it isnt the mg because i think it works great and i bought two big bags of it!



JuliaB said:


> I've been having good luck with Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar in a spritzer bottle. It couldn't be simpler and once it's dry, the vinegar smell leaves.



I might have to try this if i am reacting to the magnesium. I do have lots of apple cider vinegar. What made you try this for deodorant?


----------



## IrishLass

From what I understand from reading different medical .edu sites, some forms of magnesium, such as Epsom salts, can be absorbed by the skin, but so far I have not read of the same being true of magnesium hydroxide.

The most that I have been able to find so far (from what I consider to be legit sources that have actually conducted tests and published their testing parameters and conclusions), is info from the NCBI (National Center for Biotechnology) in their publication entitled, Toxicological Risks of Selected Flame Retardant Chemicals . 

If you click on the above link and scroll through the chapter, you'll see where it states that there is no information to be found in regards to the dermal absorption of magnesium hydroxide in either humans or experimental animals, that there are no studies to be found that investigate the distribution of magnesium hydroxide cations in relation to dermal or inhalation exposure in humans or experimental animals, or that investigate the biotransformation of magnesium hydroxide in humans or animals after exposure by any route, etc...

Further down under the heading of "Exposure Assessment and Risk Characterization" you'll see where they did, however, happen to conduct dermal tests (the parameters of which are explained in chapter 3 ) in relation to the exposure of skin in direct contact with furniture upholstlery treated with magnesium hydroxide as a fire retardant. Here are their conclusions:

"The subcommittee concluded that Mg(OH)2 is an ionic substance and, therefore, is essentially not absorbed through the skin...." 

And down at the bottom under the heading of "Data Gaps and Research Needs" it was concluded that no further research was needed for assessing health risks as they relate to dermal or inhalation exposure to magnesium hydroxide, because their hazard indices (explained under the "Exposure Assessment and Risk Characterization" heading) were less than 1.

I don't know if that helps or not, but that's the only legit/tested info on the subject that I've been able to glean.

If you find that you are having a reaction to the Mg(OH)2, by all means discontinue for a week or so and see what happens. For what it's worth, I for one have not experienced any adverse affects to date (been using my deodorant for about 1 year now).


IrishLass


----------



## Dahila

the reason for itchy bumbs is not MH,  change your detergent , soap, lotion.  itchy bumbs can be caused by ;  Stress, yes stress,  food allergies,  contact allergies (had it after changing my deteregent ) presence of  pet in house,  yes you can get allergies (contact ) when the dog or cat sleep in your bed, it does not matter that you never had it before,  Iam using it for at lest 6 months so is my granchild (eczema) and none of us break out with anything.  Irishlass is right discharge it for a 7 days and observe what is happening. Take a bath with addition of oatmeal


----------



## DeeAnna

And keep in mind that you can get irritation or allergy from other ingredients besides the mag hydroxide. Fragrance can be a culprit, for example.


----------



## Gaisy59

Thank you ladies for all the info. I too tried researching using magnesium transdermally on the net and came up with nothing. I did read Irish Lass's report and it was the same conclusion...nothing with regards to transdermal use. I will discontinue for a week and see what happens. I use an earth friendly detergent, make my own soap (coconut oil, babassu oil, almond oil, and lard...unscented), and my deodorant is the babassu/mg mix unscented.

I will figure this out one way or another.


----------



## Zany_in_CO

Gaisy59 said:


> Funny but i too have been having issues. I seem to be breaking out in itchy bumps all over my body. I think i will go deodorant free for a weekend (don't want to stink out my work buddies) and see if the "hives" go down. I sure hope it isnt the mg because i think it works great and i bought two big bags of it!


Thanks for posting this! I was bothered with a hives-like rash on my upper chest and cluster-bumps on my face -- one place at the hairline on my forehead; also between the brows on my forehead; also on my left cheek. 

I went deodorant free right after reading your post. The facial bumps completely disappeared within 3 days -- and they had been hanging around for a couple of weeks. The rash on my chest has receded to just a line, shoulder to shoulder at the base of the neck. Weird.

I never suspected the deodorant. I thought it was something I was ingesting -- beet juice or a supplement -- I've been trying a few different things. I was really concerned because I've always been blessed with clear skin... no teenage acne... no eczema or psoriasis.. nothing. I'm so happy to have my face back! LOL


----------



## Millie

Zany_in_CO said:


> Thanks for posting this! I was bothered with a hives-like rash on my upper chest and cluster-bumps on my face -- one place at the hairline on my forehead; also between the brows on my forehead; also on my left cheek.
> 
> I went deodorant free right after reading your post. The facial bumps completely disappeared within 3 days -- and they had been hanging around for a couple of weeks. The rash on my chest has receded to just a line, shoulder to shoulder at the base of the neck. Weird.
> 
> I never suspected the deodorant. I thought it was something I was ingesting -- beet juice or a supplement -- I've been trying a few different things. I was really concerned because I've always been blessed with clear skin... no teenage acne... no eczema or psoriasis.. nothing. I'm so happy to have my face back! LOL



Zany, was it the mag/bab deodorant you had trouble with or a different recipe? How long were you using it before you developed a rash?

My mom is excited to try the mag/bab but I feel a little guilty always using her as my guinea pig. I hope if any one else has had issues you'll let us know (and save my precious mother).


----------



## Zany_in_CO

Millie said:


> Zany, was it the mag/bab deodorant you had trouble with or a different recipe? How long were you using it before you developed a rash?


Yes, it was the mag/bab deodorant. I didn't make it. I got it from another member who generously sent me a full size container so I could try it before making it. I've been using it since mid-June, if I remember correctly. I really like it! I don't remember when the rash started or the breakouts on my face, and I forgot to mention, my back also, but it's been a month or two or three? Not sure. There was so much going on family-wise, that the last couple of months are just a blur. I wish I could be more precise, but I actually didn't think the deodorant was the cause until I stopped using it and the rash and breakouts went away.

ETA: I think I'm probably allergic to the magnesium. I can't take mag/zinc/calcium supplements -- they don't like me.


----------



## Dahila

DeeAnna said:


> Okay, thank you for explaining. You might be right, Dahlia. I'm curious to see how your trial works!


3% Cetyl makes it smooth and easier to apply,  You are a genius DeeAnna


----------



## nframe

Dahila said:


> 3% Cetyl makes it smooth and easier to apply,  You are a genius DeeAnna



Is that 3% cetyl as well as BTMS or 3% cetyl instead of BTMS?


----------



## Dahila

nframe said:


> Is that 3% cetyl as well as BTMS or 3% cetyl instead of BTMS?


I use Emulsifying Wax NF and Cetyl alcohol it makes it stable, credit to DeeAnna


----------



## nframe

Dahila said:


> I use Emulsifying Wax NF and Cetyl alcohol it makes it stable, credit to DeeAnna



Thanks.  I'll try that.


----------



## Gaisy59

I have just completed some time off from my babassu/magnesium deodorant after seeing that rash.  I am going to try it again just to make sure that it wasn't something else that was affecting my body.  My fingers are crossed because I really like this deodorant.  Just an FYI my friend found an online site for natural deodorant (Native Deodorant) and it too contains babassu and magnesium and a WHOLE LOT of other stuff, so I'm definitely going to give this another go.

Wish me luck!  Will keep you guys informed on how it goes.


----------



## Zany_in_CO

Good luck, Gaisy! I liked the Mag/Bab deodorant too! So sad it didn't like me! LOL



Gaisy59 said:


> ...FYI my friend found an online site for natural deodorant (Native Deodorant) and it too contains babassu and magnesium and a WHOLE LOT of other stuff,


I saw that too -- here's a link and list of ingredients:

https://www.nativecos.com/product/deodorant-women/



> Caprylic/capric triglyceride (fractionated coconut oil),
> arrowroot powder,
> stearyl alcohol,
> magnesium hydroxide (milk of magnesia),
> shea butter,
> coconut oil,
> hydrogenated castor oil,
> polyglycerol-3 beeswax (cera bellina wax),
> jojoba esters,
> tocopherol (Vitamin E),
> L. acidophilus,
> dextrose,
> glyceryl caprylate,
> glyceryl undecylenate.


----------



## BattleGnome

I finally ordered babassu oil and it should be in tonight, trying to figure out a basic recipe to start. I don’t currently have magnesium hydroxide but I have been using MOM. I’d like to use the MOM with the e-wax to make a lotion but if I’m reading my notes right that wasn’t a stable combination (tried making a neem/MOM lotion last year)

The ideas I’ve got for right now: (making small lotion bars to test)
1) a plain babassu bar as a control
2) 90% babassu, 10% beeswax
3) 90% babassu, 10% ewax

I have small containers to keep the bars in but I am also debating decreasing the waxes by 1% to use fragrance as my identifier. Are the percentages ok? Should I decrease/increase the wax percentages based on what everyone else has found to work?


----------



## nframe

I have tried making a lotion (or rather a cream) with milk of magnesia and it is still stable after 7 months.  I used 47% milk of magnesia, 48% babassu oil and 5% BTMS.  I would like to make it stiffer so that I can pour it into deodorant tubes but I am not sure what to do...


----------



## Gaisy59

Ok all i am back! Hopefully this forum is still going. My last posting was that i had a rash and was taking a break. Rash cleared up and it was NOT caused by mag/babassu deo. Yayyy. Now for my update: i have mixed a 60/40 babassu magnesium mixture and yes it is still hard but it does glide better. And this baby just travelled with me to Aruba where the temp was a consistent 34 celsius everyday. Wooo boy even my knees were sweating. The deo did not melt at all.  And according to my friend i did not smell!

To date i have not been able to use a deo container. I have managed to break three containers. The twister breaks when i try to move the deo up. Oh well i will continue to use toilet paper rolls as molds.

Bottom line is i love this deo. I dont smell, my clothes wash clean, and no staining.


----------



## earlene

*Gaisy59*, sounds like your deodorant worked well in Aruba.  I hope you had a wonderful time!  Sorry about the experience you are having with the containers.  I use these from Amazon and have not had any issues whatsoever.  When done, I wash and re-use them and they continue to work.

ETA:

To make the link more visible, I think I need to change the color of the linked text thusly:  these


----------



## Dahila

BG do not use beeswax it is incredibly draggy on skin.  Use emulsifier instead


----------



## Gaisy59

Had a blast in Aruba thank you. Your link to tubes did not come through but i believe mine broke because i only have the two ingredients and i was using a 50/50 blend. I can try again with the 60/40 blend and see if it will slide up better. If not it will be back to toilet paper rolls lol.

And i really am trying to keep my natural formulations as simple as possible and so i dont want to add an emulsifier, but thanks for that input. I really appreciate what i have read in this amazing forum!


----------



## earlene

Gaisy59 said:


> Your link to tubes did not come through but i believe mine broke because i only have the two ingredients and i was using a 50/50 blend. I can try again with the 60/40 blend and see if it will slide up better. If not it will be back to toilet paper rolls lol.



Sorry you didn't see the link.  It's because the links just don't show very well in this format, for some reason.  If you click on the word 'these', that's the link.  But here it is again:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZVSQWC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


----------



## Guspuppy

I realize it's been a long time since anyone posted in here, BUT! I just went on a 3-month road trip wherein I was camping in my car and only showered about every 3 days. My max was 5 days. I have to say that my 50/50 babassu/mag deo WORKS. After 4 days I would get stinky no matter what, but for 3 days I was usually good! I did use baby wipes on my pits once per day before reapplying the deo but still. I am impressed beyond words and could not wait to get home and tell you all how well it worked. Thanks a million times Teresa!!!!


----------



## cmzaha

Guspuppy said:


> I realize it's been a long time since anyone posted in here, BUT! I just went on a 3-month road trip wherein I was camping in my car and only showered about every 3 days. My max was 5 days. I have to say that my 50/50 babassu/mag deo WORKS. After 4 days I would get stinky no matter what, but for 3 days I was usually good! I did use baby wipes on my pits once per day before reapplying the deo but still. I am impressed beyond words and could not wait to get home and tell you all how well it worked. Thanks a million times Teresa!!!!


Thankyou for posting your results, I have been wondering if anyone is still using the Bab/Mag mix


----------



## DeeAnna

I am too and am still pleased by the results.


----------



## cmzaha

Thankyou DeeAnna, I am going to work on making some as soon as my Babassu gets here.


----------



## dixiedragon

Where do you get magnesium? I see WSP has it, anyone else?


----------



## earlene

I bought mine via Amazon (link).

And, yes, I still use it.


----------



## Obsidian

Do you have to use babassu? Would coconut be ok instead?


----------



## cmzaha

I got mine on Ebay, Amazon also has it. If I remember correctly Coconut will yellow white clothes.


----------



## dixiedragon

Obsidian said:


> Do you have to use babassu? Would coconut be ok instead?


I haven't made this yet, but if IIRC, Theresa did an experiment with coconut oil and it didn't work as well.


----------



## earlene

If you read back in this thread, you will see why Babassu was selected.  It does not stain my clothes, which is the most important aspect of choosing which oil to use.


----------



## Dahila

I am also happy with it, of course I had changed a bit but all feedback is great and I am great too,  Never tried two days without shower, but whole day on hot day on market it works,  We have all July temps around 98F
Obsidian, babassu oil has deodorizing properties on it's own , and not stain at all (earlene )
In my opinion we should keep that thread alive  the only upload of pic is through URL?????


----------



## dibbles

I’m still using it too.


----------



## cmzaha

But I do have to ask a rather elementary question. How are you dissolving the Magnesium or is it oil soluble? I am just to hot and lazy to look it up. House is 100º F again today. If it does not cool down tonight my house will be hotter tomorrow


----------



## Holly8991

Holy smoke!  100 degrees inside?  I would melt  
When we 1st took my daughter to visit her college it was April,  We are wearing shorts in ATL and got off the plane and was like OMG I need a parka!  
But that was in San Francisco and it seems to be always cold there


----------



## IrishLass

I'm still using mine and it's still working great! I buy my mag hydroxide from the same link Earlene posted.



cmzaha said:


> But I do have to ask a rather elementary question. How are you dissolving the Magnesium or is it oil soluble? I am just to hot and lazy to look it up. House is 100º F again today. If it does not cool down tonight my house will be hotter tomorrow



The mag hydroxide does not so much dissolve as disperse (like TD). Currently, in this hot weather, I make a thick paste of it with the babassu using a ratio 45% babassu to 55% mag hydroxide and apply with my fingers, rubbing it in. The mag hydroxide is very fine and powder soft and the deodorant goes on smooth and creamy. There's no friction and no irritation at all from it, and the babassu does not stain or cause oil slicks on my clothing (unlike coconut oil).


IrishLass


----------



## cmzaha

IrishLass said:


> I'm still using mine and it's still working great! I buy my mag hydroxide from the same link Earlene posted.
> The mag hydroxide does not so much dissolve as disperse (like TD). Currently, in this hot weather, I make a thick paste of it with the babassu using a ratio 45% babassu to 55% mag hydroxide and apply with my fingers, rubbing it in. The mag hydroxide is very fine and powder soft and the deodorant goes on smooth and creamy. There's no friction and no irritation at all from it, and the babassu does not stain or cause oil slicks on my clothing (unlike coconut oil).
> IrishLass


Thankyou, for the info


----------



## earlene

Dahila said:


> the only upload of pic is through URL?????



No, you can also upload a photo using the button below your post entry box, which says 'Upload a File' (to the right of 'Post Reply').


----------



## nframe

I, too, use it still and am happy with it.  I made another one though, after seeing a recipe on a French website the other day.  Here is the recipe:

50% coconut oil (I used babassu oil for the reasons mentioned above)
10% carnauba wax
3% cetearyl alcohol
6% olivem 1000
Melt all these in a bain-marie then add:
20% magnesium carbonate
9.5% arrowroot powder
1% litsea EO
0.5% palmarosa EO.

It is like a lotion bar although, in the heat wave we are experiencing at the moment, it is a bit soft.  I find it equally effective.


----------



## Gaisy59

Gaisy59 here and i too am still using the babassu/mag deo and still loving it. IrishLass discovered that i was using the harder babassu oil which was why i was breaking all those tubes AND peeling skin off my underarms when applying lol. 

When i make more all i do is melt the oil a bit to soften it and then stir in the mag and plop it into my tubes. Easy peasy. This thread has been great and i too have been keeping an eye on it. One question tho...how much scent do you guys have to add? I cannot seem to add enough to get any aroma.


----------



## dixiedragon

If the magnesium acts as a deodorizer, is it absorbing/neutralizing the scent?


----------



## nframe

dixiedragon said:


> If the magnesium acts as a deodorizer, is it absorbing/neutralizing the scent?


I have no idea what it is doing but it works!


----------



## earlene

dixiedragon said:


> If the magnesium acts as a deodorizer, is it absorbing/neutralizing the scent?



I once thought that about another deodorant I used, but it turned out the scent came back, so I assumed I had had some sort of nasal congestion that was interfering with my sense of smell for a period.



Gaisy59 said:


> One question tho...how much scent do you guys have to add? I cannot seem to add enough to get any aroma.



It depends on the fragrance itself, I believe.   I've been using 1% with 

Too much Rose FO (accidentally spilled) made my underarms red and inflamed.  Boy was that uncomfortable.  But the fragrance was certainly strong.  But I couldn't use it!  I ended up melting it down and adding more oil & mag sulfate.   

When not making mistakes like that, I go for 1% by weight of the total batch size.  With Dragon's Blood, I smell the fragrance all day long.  Some fragrances are not as long lasting, though.  But remember the armpits are a sensitive area and too much fragrance can be irritating.  Also, I suggest reading the IFRA safe usage rates for each FO or EO you plan to use.  Remember that deodorants & anti-perspirants are in category 2 (link).


----------



## BeesKnees

I have been using only magnesium hydroxide as a powder on my underarms for months now and have had good results with it despite the many hours of being outside in the heat and humidity most days.  It's rather amazing stuff.


----------



## IrishLass

I've done that as well (dusted underarms with the straight mag hydroxide powder), and then applied one of my store-bought deodorants over it that I still had in my medicine cabinet (to use it up), and darned if the store-bought deodorant didn't work the best that it ever had before. lol


IrishLass


----------



## KristaY

I've been using 50/50 babassu & mag hydroxide for about a year and I love it! An interesting thing I've found is if I notice a smell at the end of the day, I use a hemorrhoid wipe (witch hazel) and clean the deo off, reapply, no odor! It's like the deo absorbs the smelly stuff and holds onto it. Once it's wiped off, icky scent is gone. My shirts have no oil stains in the armpit area either.

My problem right now is the babassu I recently bought. About 6 months ago I bought it from one vendor and it's still firm, soft since it's summer, but solid. A few weeks ago I bought it from another vendor and it's liquid at room temp, which right now is about 76 F in my house (Thankfully not 100F!) The only way I can get it solid is to keep it in the fridge. Are there different types of babassu? Is the new one not 100% babassu? I bought both from soap supply stores so I don't understand it. My deo is now at a consistency I have to apply it using my fingers since it's so soft, like a cream. My previous batches were firm enough to dispense from roll up deo containers. Isn't the melting point about 76F, the same as coconut oil? 

On a side note, I recently tried my old store brand aluminum based deo and it burned my pits! I guess my skin is now used to being aluminum free and prefers the mag hydroxide.


----------



## Gaisy59

KristaY said:


> I've been using 50/50 babassu & mag hydroxide for about a year and I love it! An interesting thing I've found is if I notice a smell at the end of the day, I use a hemorrhoid wipe (witch hazel) and clean the deo off, reapply, no odor! It's like the deo absorbs the smelly stuff and holds onto it. Once it's wiped off, icky scent is gone. My shirts have no oil stains in the armpit area either.
> 
> My problem right now is the babassu I recently bought. About 6 months ago I bought it from one vendor and it's still firm, soft since it's summer, but solid. A few weeks ago I bought it from another vendor and it's liquid at room temp, which right now is about 76 F in my house (Thankfully not 100F!) The only way I can get it solid is to keep it in the fridge. Are there different types of babassu? Is the new one not 100% babassu? I bought both from soap supply stores so I don't understand it. My deo is now at a consistency I have to apply it using my fingers since it's so soft, like a cream. My previous batches were firm enough to dispense from roll up deo containers. Isn't the melting point about 76F, the same as coconut oil?
> 
> On a side note, I recently tried my old store brand aluminum based deo and it burned my pits! I guess my skin is now used to being aluminum free and prefers the mag hydroxide.


Lol Krista did you see my recent post? Thanks to IrishLass i discovered that yes there are two kinds of babassu oil. I actually didnt mind the harder ine for travelling but it really is difficult to apply. When i travel with the softer one it becomes more like a cream and i used a small canning jar so it doesnt leak and i apply with my fingers. 

I was really confused when everyone said it was soft at room temperature and mine never was.

I order big batches of the 76 degree one because i ended up using it in my soap now too.  Hope this clarifies your confusion.


----------



## TeresaT

Hi everyone.  I just popped in to look at some old photos from challenges in 2016 so I can figure out what my soaps are and saw I had a few messages.  I'm so thrilled that this thread is alive and well.  It warms my heart that the babassu oil is so successful for so many people.  IrishLass's discovery of the magnesium hydroxide was the real breakthrough, I think.  I've been using it since I started this thread and I'm still pleasantly surprised at how well it works.  I've also noticed that my diet has a huge amount of influence on how stinky I am.  If I eat meat, I tend to stink.  If I stay with a mostly veggie diet, it's not as bad.  It also helps my IBS, so I tend to be vegetarian more than carnivore these days.


----------



## cmzaha

Hi Teresa, been wondering how you are. Good I hope


----------



## TeresaT

Very well, thank you.  Trying to catch up with some stuff and never seem to do it.


----------



## KristaY

Hi Teresa! I'm happy to see you back, even if it's for just a bit



Gaisy59 said:


> Lol Krista did you see my recent post? Thanks to IrishLass i discovered that yes there are two kinds of babassu oil. I actually didnt mind the harder ine for travelling but it really is difficult to apply. When i travel with the softer one it becomes more like a cream and i used a small canning jar so it doesnt leak and i apply with my fingers.
> 
> I was really confused when everyone said it was soft at room temperature and mine never was.
> 
> I order big batches of the 76 degree one because i ended up using it in my soap now too.  Hope this clarifies your confusion.



Thanks Gaisy! I looked back a few pages but didn't see that. So I over looked it or didn't read it correctly. I'm happy to know it's not one of my suppliers since I like and trust them both. Since I'm a moron and didn't see the post, do you remember what the melting point of both are? Then I'll know which one to look for. Thanks again!


----------



## Gaisy59

KristaY said:


> Thanks Gaisy! I looked back a few pages but didn't see that. So I over looked it or didn't read it correctly. I'm happy to know it's not one of my suppliers since I like and trust them both. Since I'm a moron and didn't see the post, do you remember what the melting point of both are? Then I'll know which one to look for. Thanks again!


Hi Krista you need to look for the 76 degree melting point one. Having said that my first purchase of babassu ever was from New Directions and it was the super hard one. Looking at New Directions just now i see that they do not say what their babassu oil melting point is. My second purchase was from Saffire Blue and this was the softer babassu oil. I think i will contact New Directions and see why they sell such a hard oil. If these sellers dont look familiar just an FYI i am from canada.



TeresaT said:


> Hi everyone.  I just popped in to look at some old photos from challenges in 2016 so I can figure out what my soaps are and saw I had a few messages.  I'm so thrilled that this thread is alive and well.  It warms my heart that the babassu oil is so successful for so many people.  IrishLass's discovery of the magnesium hydroxide was the real breakthrough, I think.  I've been using it since I started this thread and I'm still pleasantly surprised at how well it works.  I've also noticed that my diet has a huge amount of influence on how stinky I am.  If I eat meat, I tend to stink.  If I stay with a mostly veggie diet, it's not as bad.  It also helps my IBS, so I tend to be vegetarian more than carnivore these days.


Hi Theresa nice to hear from you. I see you suffer from IBS and so do i. I dont want to step into any medical areas but mygirlfriend is a dietitian and she suggested i try the low FODMAP diet as did my family physician. It has alleviated a great deal of my symptoms. Not saying it will help you, but at least it is something you can do some research on and/or give it a try.


----------



## KristaY

So it's not just me! I just looked at several sites and none of them listed the melting point of their babassu. Apparently I got the higher melt point from the 1st vendor and the lower melt point from the 2nd. Now I know I need to find that out before I purchase. Thanks for your input Gaisy!


----------



## Alzie

Boy did my pits make my eyes water today.  I didn't even have to lift my arms high to catch a whiff.   Can you say said:
			
		

> This has me dying laughing!!. I can so relate, when I was a teen, my uncle was driving  me to my horse show and said "whew! Girl you need to start wearing detergent, you could get a maggot!" Mortified teen me thought to myself ,"but I DID wear it...." Lol


----------



## IrishLass

Good to hear from you again Teresa! We've missed you! 


IrishLass


----------



## SoaperForLife

I have never heard of different babassu oils which makes me wonder.... when I was making lotions for sale I would include babassu oil in my recipe and it was always semi-soft (similar to what Bramble Berry sells).


----------



## beckster51

I have noticed the different types of babassu oil that I have received, but I just assumed that one was hydrogenated and processed, while the softer one was not.  If I may ask, which suppliers do you use that sell the softer ones?  It would be helpful to know.  Thanks!


----------



## Dahila

Gaisy59 said:


> Hi Krista you need to look for the 76 degree melting point one. Having said that my first purchase of babassu ever was from New Directions and it was the super hard one. Looking at New Directions just now i see that they do not say what their babassu oil melting point is. My second purchase was from Saffire Blue and this was the softer babassu oil. I think i will contact New Directions and see why they sell such a hard oil. If these sellers dont look familiar just an FYI i am from canada.


Get one from Windy Point, when you spend $125 before taxes,  shipping is free,  Her babassu is wonderful but pricey


----------



## DeeAnna

The babassu I have is from Majestic Mountain Sage. It's a number of years old, but the shelf life on this stuff must be really long -- it still smells fine. It's always been a firm solid, even in the warmest days of summer. Interesting to learn there is a softer version.


----------



## Gaisy59

DeeAnna said:


> The babassu I have is from Majestic Mountain Sage. It's a number of years old, but the shelf life on this stuff must be really long -- it still smells fine. It's always been a firm solid, even in the warmest days of summer. Interesting to learn there is a softer version.


Hi DeeAnna i am interested to know how you applied your babassu/mag deo because it sounds like you have the hard stuff like Krista and i had our first time.  Trying to apply that stuff almost put me over the edge


----------



## Obsidian

I was looking at babassu on amazon and the pictures show a liquid oil, does it come like that too? I was hoping to find it and the mag at the same place to save shipping.


----------



## Gaisy59

Obsidian said:


> I was looking at babassu on amazon and the pictures show a liquid oil, does it come like that too? I was hoping to find it and the mag at the same place to save shipping.


My first rock solid oil came in a plastic container with a screw top and they were big hard chunks. My second order of the softer oil came in a big shampoo like bottle but it wasnt liquid it was a soft solid. As i didnt want to keep warming it up to get it out i cut it out of the bottle and put it in an easier to access container. That was my experience.


----------



## DeeAnna

Gaisy59 said:


> Hi DeeAnna i am interested to know how you applied your babassu/mag deo because it sounds like you have the hard stuff like Krista and i had our first time.  Trying to apply that stuff almost put me over the edge



I think my deo would probably drive you nutty too. The stuff doesn't glide, that's for sure -- I use kind of a dabbing motion to get enough rubbed onto my skin.

I have played around with using less magnesium hydroxide to try to reduce drag and adding cetyl alcohol and conditioning emulsifier (generic BTMS) to the blend to increase the melt temp and hopefully also reduce drag. Compared to a 50:50 mix of mag hydroxide and babassu, these changes did reduce the drag a little and increased the melting temperature. The mix is still overly draggy, however, although it now doesn't get goopy at warm room temps. The recipe from the last batch I made in August, 2017:

Mg(OH)2 (magnesium hydroxide) powder 30 g
Babassu oil 55 g
Cetyl alcohol 14 g
Conditioning emulsifier 14 g
Fragrance 0.5 g

This fills one regular deodorant-type tube plus one small twist up tube (a giant version of a lip balm tube). The lower mag hydroxide content still works well to control odor. 

My notes from shortly after I made it say the reduced drag might be due to simply using less mag hydroxide -- I questioned whether the cetyl alcohol and cond emulsifier really did all that much to reduce drag. 

What those ingredients would do is make the mixture more water soluble so it will wash out of fabric easier. That said, I've not noticed any build up of the mag hydroxide deodorant on my clothing, whether or not I've included any emulsifier. The Tom's deodorant I have used for years does leave a yellow, stiff residue in the armpit area that doesn't wash out easily.


----------



## earlene

I bought mine from Soapers Choice and it remains solid in my house no matter how hot it gets, which is probably no higher the low 80'sF.  It only melts when I put the bottle in a hot water bath for a couple of hours or so.  However, it melts quickly upon contact with my skin.  

However, I did run into melting in high heat even with this high-melting point babassu when I travel.  So I set out on a search to solidify it more for use while traveling, which I do a lot of by car.  Finding melted deo stick in ones luggage is no fun.

Looking back to pages 14 through 20 of this thread there is discussion of additives to make the deo stick more solid in hot weather as well as maintaining a glide during application.  Several ideas are mentioned, including e-wax, BTMS, cetyl achol and so forth.

I first tried beeswax because I had it on hand, but its just a bit draggy on the skin, although I got used to that as I wanted to use up what I had.  Now I am using Cera Bellina wax with rice bran wax, although I did not mean to mix the two in the same Deo; that was a mistake on my part.  I've only been using this version for a couple of weeks and it is less draggy than the beeswax was.  I plan to try BTMS 50 since ordering some from SaveOnCitric, but haven't mixed it up yet.

I see DeeAnna added more info while I've been typing. I don't seem to have the same trouble with application as DeeAnna mentions.  Maybe my armpits are hotter than hers and mine melts faster.  I don't know.  But of course, I am using a different mixture also.  But even with the beeswax, I didn't need to do the dabbing motion; dragging it along my skin worked fine.


----------



## Gaisy59

Hi DeeAnn and Earlene, that hard stuff is uncompromising! The best results i had with it were warming it up with a hairdryer prior to application. I even did the 60% babassu and 40% mag, and like you say it deodorizes just fine but the drag was still there. Having said that i really do like this one better for travel as it doesnt melt...at all. I had it in Aruba at +34 celsius every day and no melt. But for every day use i do prefer the softer babassu. As it is with the harder one i broke my twist tubes as it would not go up. For travel i used a toilet paper roll to mold it and used a leak proof case to carry it.


----------



## earlene

*Gaisy59*, I am so amazed yours was so draggy in Aruba. Without the added wax, mine melted on my armpits on contact.  That was at 50/50 babassu to MgOH powder.  I have never had to warm it up at all to use it, not even with the added wax.

Without the added wax, mine softened and melted enough to change the internal shape inside the deo-stick in my car truck inside my suitcase while driving in summer heat (thankfully it was in a plastic baggy, too, so no spread of product into the surrounding stuff in my suitcase).  Of course, I do realize the small metal compartment of a car trunk traveling along in the hot sun does intensify the heat a lot more than inside the cabin of the car.


----------



## DeeAnna

My "hard" babassu doesn't melt at temps up to 85 F (30 C) -- maybe a little higher than that. But above those temps, the mixture with only babassu and mag hydroxide gets goopy, so I'm sure it wouldn't travel well in a typical deodorant tube. I'd have to put it in a screw-cap jar. 

Adding the emulsifier and cetyl alcohol increased the melt temp to roughly 110-120 F (45 C). That works pretty well, although it still could melt in a super hot car. But then I'd wonder about any deodorant (or lipstick or any other salve-like product) in that kind of situation. I know Tom's deo melts at about the same temp as my emulsifier-fortified deo.


----------



## Gaisy59

Before i buy more babassu i will contact my two suppliers to see why there was such a difference. But for sure the hard one wasnt going anywhere fast. As for additives i kinda prefer just the two ingredients...my motto is keep it as simple as possible.


----------



## BattleGnome

Just adding to the melting point conversation. My babassu melts if I look at it, I got it from lotioncraftier. I started mixing up my own in April (I think) and the consistency stayed solid enough then but as soon as outside temps hit over 70F I needed to start adding stuff to keep it from separating due to melting point. 

My current batch is:
1g steric acid
10g babassu
10g mag hydroxide

It makes a nice paste but the steric is slightly grainy. I’m thinking of adding ewax in my next batch to see if that helps any. Ideally I’d like a solid to use a tube but I’m good with what I have if I never get there. 

I’ll note that I did try beeswax but it clogged my pores, don’t remember the percentage I used through


----------



## Gaisy59

earlene said:


> *Gaisy59*, I am so amazed yours was so draggy in Aruba. Without the added wax, mine melted on my armpits on contact.  That was at 50/50 babassu to MgOH powder.  I have never had to warm it up at all to use it, not even with the added wax.
> 
> Without the added wax, mine softened and melted enough to change the internal shape inside the deo-stick in my car truck inside my suitcase while driving in summer heat (thankfully it was in a plastic baggy, too, so no spread of product into the surrounding stuff in my suitcase).  Of course, I do realize the small metal compartment of a car trunk traveling along in the hot sun does intensify the heat a lot more than inside the cabin of the car.


I knowwww but that sucker would just not soften up! Once i bought the softer one i used the rock hard one for soaping. But like i said it trvelled wonderfully cause it would not melt



BattleGnome said:


> Just adding to the melting point conversation. My babassu melts if I look at it, I got it from lotioncraftier. I started mixing up my own in April (I think) and the consistency stayed solid enough then but as soon as outside temps hit over 70F I needed to start adding stuff to keep it from separating due to melting point.
> 
> My current batch is:
> 1g steric acid
> 10g babassu
> 10g mag hydroxide
> 
> It makes a nice paste but the steric is slightly grainy. I’m thinking of adding ewax in my next batch to see if that helps any. Ideally I’d like a solid to use a tube but I’m good with what I have if I never get there.
> 
> I’ll note that I did try beeswax but it clogged my pores, don’t remember the percentage I used through


Hey BattleGnome that is the babassu i have now. It starts to melt as soon as it hits the pits. However this does not travel well so i have to travel with it in leakproof container. I like both oils but the softer one is definitely easier for day to day application.


----------



## TeresaT

I wonder how much of the hardness/softness issue is in where y'all live.  I'm noticing some are in Canada and some are in the southern states (like me).  I'm not having any issues with melting points of the oil or dragging.  I'm still on my first 7# bottle of babbasu oil I purchased from Soaper's Choice.  I keep the oil in the fridge.  When I got the jug, I melted it in hot water and poured it into clean quart mason jars so it would be easier to access when I need to make more deodorant.  I keep it in the spare fridge in the garage. I melt it down in warm water.  I must have purchased the higher melting point kind.  I didn't know there were two different ones.  

I keep my deodorant on the bathroom counter.  I still haven't gotten my central air conditioner fixed, so it gets pretty warm in there.  My latest batch was 68% oil, 23% magnesium hydroxide, 7% emulsifier, 2% deodorant additive from Bramble Berry and 1% optiphen.  I used the preservative because the additive is water soluble and I thought I'd better add it and not need it than need it and not have it.  I decided to try the enzyme deodorant additive from Bramble Berry to see if it worked better. * It didn't.*  However, I only used the lower end of the spectrum; you can use up to 5% in your product.  I didn't want to start out with a high amount.  I'll probably try a few more formulations just "because."  A friend of mine said the deodorant I made (50/50 with babassau and magnesium hydroxide) did not work at all for her.  

I'll probably go back to the 50/50 blend; I'm most confident with that one. And the Dragon Blood fragrance oil.  That lasts all day even though I only use a little bit of FO in the mix.    But I still want to continue to experiment with the additive from Bramble Berry.  It might work for my stinky friend.  

ANYWAY.  Having the higher oil content still doesn't have a messy meltdown in the tube.  It does go on gloopier though.  I have to be careful when applying because it's softer and my body is warmer than in winter.  Not a good combination when putting on oil-based deodorant.


----------



## TeresaT

Gaisy59 said:


> Hi Theresa nice to hear from you. I see you suffer from IBS and so do i. I dont want to step into any medical areas but mygirlfriend is a dietitian and she suggested i try the low FODMAP diet as did my family physician. It has alleviated a great deal of my symptoms. Not saying it will help you, but at least it is something you can do some research on and/or give it a try.



I have no idea what FODMAP is, but I'll look it up and do some research.  Thanks for the tip.  I've been doing pretty well with the diet lately.  I've lost 15 pounds over the past two months (not a lot, but a lot in such a short time).  I've also noticed that I am far more satiated and happier with mostly crunchy foods like celery, cauliflower, radishes and peppers.  And cheese; I do really well with cheese and triscuits.  Weird, but true.  If I don't have those, I tend to eat aimlessly.


----------



## SoaperForLife

Could you add a bit of shea butter to the recipe to reduce drag?

Schmidt's makes a deo with magnesium hydroxide now.... ingredients are: Magnesium Hydroxide, Cocos Nucifera (coconut) Oil, Maranta Arundinacea (arrowroot) Powder, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride (fractionated coconut oil), Butyrospermum Parkii (shea butter), Euphorbia Cerifera (candelilla) Wax, Simmondsia Chinensis (jojoba) Seed Oil, Natural Fragrance, Tocopherol (vitamin E; sunflower-derived).


----------



## Dahila

SoaperForLife said:


> Schmidt's makes a deo with magnesium hydroxide now.... ingredients are: Magnesium Hydroxide, Cocos Nucifera (coconut) Oil, Maranta Arundinacea (arrowroot) Powder, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride (fractionated coconut oil), Butyrospermum Parkii (shea butter), Euphorbia Cerifera (candelilla) Wax, Simmondsia Chinensis (jojoba) Seed Oil, Natural Fragrance, Tocopherol (vitamin E; sunflower-derived).


oh it must stain clothes and be greasy,  Greasy is why people do not buy deos with a lot of oils.  Coconut oil stains clothes and nothing will wash the stain off


----------



## DeeAnna

SoaperForLife said:


> Could you add a bit of shea butter to the recipe to reduce drag?



Shea melts at about the same temp as babassu (at least the higher melt temp version) and we know already that the babassu-only version has a tendency to be too melty. If anything, it would be nice to raise the melt temp. 

Babassu is a top choice for being easy to wash out of fabrics, but shea is tough to remove. For me, one of the big benefits of the babassu-mag Hydroxide deo is that it does not make permanent stains and washes out well. 

And then there's the issue that some people are sensitive to shea, and that sensitivity could be aggravated by putting the deo on delicate underarm skin. 

I don't know that shea is a step in the right direction.


----------



## Obsidian

Do any of you sell? I wouldn't mind purchasing a sample before I order the expensive ingredients just to find out it doesn't work.
I checked etsy but all the natural deo there is coconut and baking soda.


----------



## earlene

*Obsidian*,  I don't sell, but I'd be happy to send you a small amount of each ingredient you don't have if you want to try it out yourself.  50 grams of babassu and 50 grams of MgOH powder makes about enough to fill my 2-ounce deodorant tubes about 1 and a 3/4 full, but it depends on what size tubes you might have on hand.  You can save an old tube from commercial deodorant and clean it to re-use.  I've actually got a couple of those, but you might feel better not using someone else's used deo tube.  

I'd suggest trying a plain 50:50 mix first, and if you want add 1% of your favorite FO.  My babassu stays solid at room temperature, so you should have no trouble with it melting before you use it.  Let me know if you want me to send you some.


----------



## KimT2au

soaring1 said:


> I have not used any type of underarm anything for three years. Your body gets used to it and doesn't produce the smell. You are suppose to sweat to cool your body off. Strictly soap to shower with and I don't stink or at least everyone tells me I smell good. Ha Ha


Eek, I wish someone would tell my Mother's body that it does not need to produce a smell.  She claims that as she does not shave her pits it wicks the moisture away from her body and therefore it produces no smell.  There are some days in summer where I have to say something as the only way I can drive without my eyes watering is to have the car window open.  Gag, wretch and double gag.


----------



## SoaperForLife

My dh quit wearing deodorant a while back.  He claims it's because it's not good for you but I believe that it's because he is very lazy and he's an aspie. He still smells....

Looks like New Directions sells the harder babassu butter (at least it appears that way from the picture).



Dahila said:


> oh it must stain clothes and be greasy,  Greasy is why people do not buy deos with a lot of oils.  Coconut oil stains clothes and nothing will wash the stain off


I actually bought a tube because I was curious about it.  It isn't greasy at all but didn't work any better than what I was already using.


----------



## Gaisy59

TeresaT said:


> I have no idea what FODMAP is, but I'll look it up and do some research.  Thanks for the tip.  I've been doing pretty well with the diet lately.  I've lost 15 pounds over the past two months (not a lot, but a lot in such a short time).  I've also noticed that I am far more satiated and happier with mostly crunchy foods like celery, cauliflower, radishes and peppers.  And cheese; I do really well with cheese and triscuits.  Weird, but true.  If I don't have those, I tend to eat aimlessly.


I hear ya girl! Cheese does fill that hole lol. But not to take away from this post, if you have questions just ask me.



SoaperForLife said:


> Looks like New Directions sells the harder babassu butter (at least it appears that way from the picture).


YES! That is the one i stumbled on first! That one is hard like a rock and it is great for travelling, but for everyday use a pain. I know Teresa said Canadian vs warmer southern states but i had it in +34 celcius and that baby did not soften!


----------



## amd

Jumping in on the deo conversation... there was a deo powder that was part of the Home Sweet Home swap January 2017, I've lost the majority of my notes during the moving process, but maybe it was someone in this thread that made it. That stuff is awesome! I only struggle during some of the summer months so I can predict when I will need to use the powder. I use a cotton ball (new one every time) to apply it put my deoderant over the top, and I am dry as a bone all day! I love that stuff. So if one of you made it, or know who made, or if there is a thread with the recipe (poop, just occurred to me it might even be in this thread) please point me in the right direction! I <3 that stuff and will be sad when I run out. Not to mention stinky.


----------



## IrishLass

I remember back when Gaisy first asked me about where I buy my babassu and then told me of her hard babassu conundrum that she bought from New Directions. I looked up the MSDS of the babassu New Directions was selling at the time and it listed it as having a melting point of between 86 degreesF (30C) to to 96 degreesF (36C). I buy mine from LotionCrafter and the MSDS for theirs lists a melting point of 76 degreesF (24.5C).

From the above, it sounds like babassu can come in 2 forms just like coconut oil, i.e., coconut oil 76 and coconut oil 92.

Out of curiosity, I just revisited New Directions MSDS page for their babassu again and noticed that it interestingly no longer lists a melting point for it. Unless my eyes are going crazy, I cannot see it anywhere on the MSDS. I do see that they recently updated their babassu MSDS info since the last time I checked, though (updated last month on June 25).

My LotionCrafter babassu is completely liquid at room temp in the summer months when we keep the central air conditioning set to 78F/25.5C. All I need to do is let it sit on my counter for a spell and it melts all on its own.  In the winter when we keep our thermostat set to about 70F/21C, it stays solid at room temp, but melts on contact with my skin.


IrishLass


----------



## IrishLass

amd said:


> Jumping in on the deo conversation... there was a deo powder that was part of the Home Sweet Home swap January 2017, I've lost the majority of my notes during the moving process, but maybe it was someone in this thread that made it. That stuff is awesome! I only struggle during some of the summer months so I can predict when I will need to use the powder. I use a cotton ball (new one every time) to apply it put my deoderant over the top, and I am dry as a bone all day! I love that stuff. So if one of you made it, or know who made, or if there is a thread with the recipe (poop, just occurred to me it might even be in this thread) please point me in the right direction! I <3 that stuff and will be sad when I run out. Not to mention stinky.




I just looked up the Home Sweet Home comments threads and saw that Teresa had contributed her Un-talcum Powder to the swap. You can find her recipe here: *https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/un-talcum-powder.63705/*


IrishLass


----------



## DeeAnna

And my babassu from Majestic Mountain Sage is definitely solid at 80 F (26 C). It melts instantly on my skin, but is solid in the jar. Interesting!


----------



## Gaisy59

DeeAnna said:


> And my babassu from Majestic Mountain Sage is definitely solid at 80 F (26 C). It melts instantly on my skin, but is solid in the jar. Interesting!
> 
> View attachment 31414


Hey DeeAnna that is what my second order looked like. If you look at New Directions pics those look like rocks and this one is solid but has a softer texture. Definitely two different types. Unfortunately i cannot find the information on Google that can differentiate the two. Might be how im wording my request. I will keep trying.


----------



## SoaperForLife

I checked my shelves and found some babassu that has been around for far too long (I used to use it in my lotion recipe but then quit making lotion).  What I have is pretty darn soft and smells horrible.  I know that coconut will stain clothing and you're saying that babassu won't?


----------



## TeresaT

amd said:


> Jumping in on the deo conversation... there was a deo powder that was part of the Home Sweet Home swap January 2017, I've lost the majority of my notes during the moving process, but maybe it was someone in this thread that made it. That stuff is awesome! I only struggle during some of the summer months so I can predict when I will need to use the powder. I use a cotton ball (new one every time) to apply it put my deoderant over the top, and I am dry as a bone all day! I love that stuff. So if one of you made it, or know who made, or if there is a thread with the recipe (poop, just occurred to me it might even be in this thread) please point me in the right direction! I <3 that stuff and will be sad when I run out. Not to mention stinky.



Me again!!  I'm glad you like it and found it useful.  I use it every day and can't live without it.  It keeps me dry in the humidity.




IrishLass said:


> I just looked up the Home Sweet Home comments threads and saw that Teresa had contributed her Un-talcum Powder to the swap. You can find her recipe here: *https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/un-talcum-powder.63705/*
> 
> 
> IrishLass



Thanks for looking this up.  I'm so glad it's been helpful for people.  As I said above, I can't live without it.  

BTW:  I haven't looked at that thread in a while.  If you want to add fragrance to the powder, I've found the best way to do it is to put it on a cotton ball or cotton pad and put that in the powder and shake it.  Seal the powder with the cotton for a few days and the powder will absorb the fragrance.  The longer you keep the cotton in the powder, the more fragrance it will absorb.  I usually just toss the cotton in the container and leave it.  However, if you want to sell or gift it, people might be upset to find a wad of cotton in their powder.



Obsidian said:


> Do any of you sell? I wouldn't mind purchasing a sample before I order the expensive ingredients just to find out it doesn't work.
> I checked etsy but all the natural deo there is coconut and baking soda.



I don't sell either; however, you are more than welcome to sample my deodorant and/or I can send you a few empty deodorant tubes.  I think I bought 50 2 oz sized containers and caps the last time I purchased them.  (I've got a most of them left.)  You can message me if you're interested.  I can drop them in the mail for you.  I've got a tube of the deo with the Bramble Berry additive in it at 2%.   I need to make up some with just babbasu and mag; I can toss one of each in the mail and you can see if either work for you.  I could use some guinea pits.  See what I did there...


----------



## DeeAnna

If it smells bad, I wouldn't use it. My babassu has a faint but pleasant odor. 

My friend who is a professional massage therapist likes coconut oil as a base for her massage lotions, and she says it washes out of her sheets pretty well. But people who have used coconut and other fats in deodorant concoctions say it can stain the underarm area as time goes on. I have been using the babassu mag hydroxide deo regularly for roughly 1 1/2 years and I don't see _any _staining or build up on my clothing.


----------



## Dean

TMI...I haven't used deodorant in years becuz of the aluminum.  I shower twice a day.   If someone thinks I don’t smell like a bouquet of flowers, they need to back out of my personal space.


----------



## TeresaT

Dean said:


> TMI...I haven't used deodorant in years becuz of the aluminum.  I shower twice a day.   If someone thinks I don’t smell like a bouquet of flowers, they need to back out of my personal space.



I have an autoimmune disease called Sjogren’s Syndrome.  It attacks the moisture producing glands in my body.  My eyes were the first to fall victim. They get so dry that my lids have actually stuck to and torn the corneal tissue.  I cannot shower daily because my skin can not tolerate it.  Showering twice a day is a luxury I can only remember from my teens and 20s.  I shower every other day and own stock in baby wipes.  I don’t use commercial deodorants because I don’t like the idea of having my sweat ducts plugged with chemicals to prevent a natural biological activity. Any moisture my body can produce is good as far as I’m concerned: spit, sweat, snot, tears.  But I don’t want to funk up the neighborhood (though I have been known to get down and get funky on occasion). 

 I agree with you that if someone can smell me, they’re in my personal space and need to get out; but sometimes I want someone in my personal space and having some deodorant on gives me the boost of confidence enjoy that contact. I don’t invite many people into my personal space because I’m not a PDA kind of person.  (Heck, I’m not a”DA” kind of person for that matter!) Having a deodorant that I can rely on if the need for a spontaneous display of emotions around anyone other than my dogs occurs is a good feeling.  This deodorant is definitely that without a crap-ton of chemicals that I don’t need.



amd said:


> Jumping in on the deo conversation... there was a deo powder that was part of the Home Sweet Home swap January 2017, I've lost the majority of my notes during the moving process, but maybe it was someone in this thread that made it. That stuff is awesome! I only struggle during some of the summer months so I can predict when I will need to use the powder. I use a cotton ball (new one every time) to apply it put my deoderant over the top, and I am dry as a bone all day! I love that stuff. So if one of you made it, or know who made, or if there is a thread with the recipe (poop, just occurred to me it might even be in this thread) please point me in the right direction! I <3 that stuff and will be sad when I run out. Not to mention stinky.



I’m almost out and need to make a batch.  If you don’t have the ingredients to make it, PM your details and I’ll mail you some to get you through the rest of the summer. I make 5 lbs at a time, so it’s no big deal.

Holy crow!! This thread is two years old!!  I haven’t used commercial deodorant in two years.  I had no idea it was that long ago.  With that exciting bit of news, I’m off to bed. G’night y’all.


----------



## Eepa

I found this thread really interesting. The only natural deo that has really worked for me had Mg(OH)2 in it and I had plans to make my own at some point but couldn't find the darn thing anywhere. Your links didn't help either but they helped me found another supplier that does actually deliver to Finland. So yey! Even more yey is that the natural deo I last bought actually has Mg(OH)2 in it, I didn't remember that. So now I can try it with out having to buy anything new. =]

Also, sometimes you don't need to be too close to anyone to smell the funk. I, unfortunately, have a co-worker that I can tell _has been_ in the room or hall way several minutes after he has gone elsewhere as the odor will linger... That is some tactical grade BO let me tell you. =D


----------



## beckster51

I agree, Eepa!  A lot of people that think they don't smell, really do smell.  It depends on what you are accustomed to and many other factors such as what you eat.  As I have gotten older, my "smeller" does not work as well as it did when I was young, and like Teresa said, I like having the confidence to know that I don't smell when close to others.  I love that phrase - tactical BO - that's hilarious and accurate!


----------



## DeeAnna

I once had to spend a lot of time with a co-worker who had unusually strong foot odor. It was sometimes hard to stand 3-4 feet away from her because the odor was so strong. I often wondered if she had a medical condition that caused this problem, because she didn't have a strong odor otherwise.

Although I prefer to smell clean, I don't think I need to absolutely and always prevent or mask normal smells from my body. For example, I think the smell of clean sweat after a hard day's work is perfectly acceptable. A good friend is really offended by any slight whiff, and I could never quite figure out why she felt that way. Maybe the difference is she's a city girl, born and bred, and I grew up in the country? Dunno.

In any case, I have used underarm deodorant for most of my adult life. Underarm sweat is the source of most odor problems for most people by the end of a long day, especially if it's a stressful one. I don't react well, as I've mentioned before, to antiperspirants because they plug the sweat glands and that causes me trouble. But deo works well enough to control underarm odor for me, so using deo is a good compromise.


----------



## beckster51

I agree.  Clean sweat smell is fine, but the "fermented" sweat smell, not so much.  If I have "nervous" sweat it smells terrible, I assume due to the chemicals my body releases when I am apprehensive.  I do wear deodorant most days, but if I am not going to do anything too taxing and will be indoors most of the day, I will skip it to let my pits breathe.  I find under those circumstances I don't smell much.  Again, it is the clean sweat smell and not much of it.


----------



## amd

IrishLass said:


> I just looked up the Home Sweet Home comments threads and saw that Teresa had contributed her Un-talcum Powder to the swap. You can find her recipe here: *https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/un-talcum-powder.63705/*
> IrishLass



Thanks, IL, for bringing up the thread! I've been quite crunched for time (and still trying to catch up on some "current" reading on the forum). @TeresaT I'd just like to say how much I have missed your spunky personality around here. Thanks for the offer to send me more, but now that I know where the recipe is I should be good to go when I run out! I transferred my powder to a large container (I have a cat that will eat baggies) so I am making myself a note to stick to it so I remember where to go. I'm also going to grab a few notes from this thread regarding MG and Babassu, I'd like to give DIY deoderant another chance. Maybe this time in combination with the powder I'll have good results.


----------



## soaring1

KimT2au said:


> Eek, I wish someone would tell my Mother's body that it does not need to produce a smell.  She claims that as she does not shave her pits it wicks the moisture away from her body and therefore it produces no smell.  There are some days in summer where I have to say something as the only way I can drive without my eyes watering is to have the car window open.  Gag, wretch and double gag.



I started using the Mag/Babassu deodorant and love it.


----------



## cmzaha

TeresaT said:


> I have an autoimmune disease called Sjogren’s Syndrome.  It attacks the moisture producing glands in my body.  My eyes were the first to fall victim. They get so dry that my lids have actually stuck to and torn the corneal tissue.  I cannot shower daily because my skin can not tolerate it.  Showering twice a day is a luxury I can only remember from my teens and 20s.  I shower every other day and own stock in baby wipes.  I don’t use commercial deodorants because I don’t like the idea of having my sweat ducts plugged with chemicals to prevent a natural biological activity. Any moisture my body can produce is good as far as I’m concerned: spit, sweat, snot, tears.  But I don’t want to funk up the neighborhood (though I have been known to get down and get funky on occasion).
> .


My youngest daughter also has Sjorgren's Syndrome and cannot tolerate showering daily. It is a very un-nice Syndrome. It affects her teeth horrifically. She is also epileptic and has Rheumatoid Arthritis. Autoimmune diseases are not nice. I can sure relate to what you go through after seeing what she goes through. 

Your powder sounds great and thinking I will try making some.

I just poured a 2 oz test batch using
40% Babassu; 32.5% Mag Hydroxide; 12% BTMS 50; 12% Cetyl Alcohol; 3% Soft & Silky Emulisier ; .5% DB
Since I have a market today and will be in at least 10ºF temp it should be a good test. I will be using it and taking the roll up container with me today


----------



## Dahila

cmzaha said:


> I just poured a 2 oz test batch using
> 40% Babassu; 32.5% Mag Hydroxide; 12% BTMS 50; 12% Cetyl Alcohol; 3% Soft & Silky Emulisier ; .5% DB
> Since I have a market today and will be in at least 10ºF temp it should be a good test. I will be using it and taking the roll up container with me today


you have very similar percentage to mine, and with over 35 Celsius still is good,  is just a bit druggy not enough not to have sales,  Works perfect for stink that's for sure  no staining clothes.


----------



## cmzaha

Update, it did not hold up in the heat, but the percentage of babassu to MH seems to work really well. It was very hot and humid yesterday.


----------



## earlene

cmzaha said:


> Update, it did not hold up in the heat, but the percentage of babassu to MH seems to work really well. It was very hot and humid yesterday.



That was this recipe (below)?  So did your deo in the roll-up tube melt? And how much? Did it soften, but remain inside the tube, or did it running out the bottom?  I'm just curious, because I bought some BTMS50 but haven't tried it yet.  I wasn't planning on adding an emulsifier, just the BTMS50 and maybe cetyl alcohol.  But I'd have to refresh my memory on what ingredients it was I was going to try with (or none with) the BTMS50.  



cmzaha said:


> I just poured a 2 oz test batch using
> 40% Babassu; 32.5% Mag Hydroxide; 12% BTMS 50; 12% Cetyl Alcohol; 3% Soft & Silky Emulisier ; .5% DB
> Since I have a market today and will be in at least 10ºF temp it should be a good test. I will be using it and taking the roll up container with me today



I'll be headed across country the next few days in and then staying in Mendocino County for another 8 days, so expect my deo will be subjected to high heats of travel again.


----------



## cmzaha

earlene said:


> That was this recipe (below)?  So did your deo in the roll-up tube melt? And how much? Did it soften, but remain inside the tube, or did it running out the bottom?  I'm just curious, because I bought some BTMS50 but haven't tried it yet.  I wasn't planning on adding an emulsifier, just the BTMS50 and maybe cetyl alcohol.  But I'd have to refresh my memory on what ingredients it was I was going to try with (or none with) the BTMS50.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be headed across country the next few days in and then staying in Mendocino County for another 8 days, so expect my deo will be subjected to high heats of travel again.


It became very mushy in the tube, so I put it back in my cooler. Sorry not much great help, but I am guessing it would have thinned out even more than it did if I had left it out on the table. It was soft enough it would no longer roll up. Will claify I was not trying to sell it just testing if it would stand up to the heat. In my opinion it would not.

 I melted the emulsifier and cetyl alcohol first then added in the BTMS50 to just melt without overheating and it still picked up a very fishy which is common with BTMS50, dang BTMS50 and it's fishy scent. I scented it with my DB and it seemed to intensify the fishy . I am not sure it is possible to keep it from melting in the hot weather we are having. I just poured another based on DeeAnna's recipe with a little tweak so will see how it does.

Edit to add...I have had the one from yesterday sitting on the kitchen counter for a couple of hrs after taking out of the cooler I had it in yesterday. I will say it is not liquifying just more squishy but staying in the tube. My kitchen at the moment is 95º F


----------



## Moose Wrangler

The primary recipe in this thread uses magnesium hydroxide. I already have magnesium chloride here at home so I'm curious if that could be subbed. I didn't find anything that popped out when I checked out Google.

Any chance anyone can tell me the difference between how magnesium hydroxide and magnesium chloride would work? I've seen magnesium chloride used in multiple diy deodorant recipes so I know some others use it. Chemically, I'm not sure how it impacts the deodorants effectiveness compared to magnesium hydroxide.


----------



## BattleGnome

@moosewrangler - several of us have used milk of magnesia with no issues, I think that’s magnesium chloride. The hydroxide choice was one based on purity. If I’m remembering right magnesium hydroxide is easy to get in a pure form while other forms of magnesium weren’t as pure or at least had less magnesium content. Someone else was asking about magnesium chloride because they already used it, or was that you in a different thread?

@cmzaha, was it more of a paste than a solid? That’s where mine ends up with 10% steric acid. Easy to use but definitely wouldn’t work in a tube


----------



## earlene

MOM ingredients:
*Suspension *
Each mL of suspension contains 80 mg of magnesium hydroxide. _Nonmedicinal ingredients:_ carboxymethylcellulose, cherry flavour (cherry only), citric acid, D&C Red No. 28 (cherry only), ethanol, glycerin, menthol, microcrystalline cellulose, mineral oil, peppermint flavouring (mint only), sodium saccharin, sodium citrate, sodium hypochlorite, sucrose, water, and xanthan gum.

So, not MgCl2.  I will update with some links I found with a search here on SMF for Magnesium Chloride after I sort through them.

BattleGnome's 2016 thread on magnesium 'oil' as deo (not MgCl2, though):  
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/another-deodorant-thread-magnesium-oil.61097/

A few threads with MgCl2 in the results were about magnesium soaps, so I won't list them as they were not at all pertinent to the deo question.

That was all I found, so apparently MgCl2 hasn't been discussed much here on SMF, or my search parameters are not specific enough.

In any case, I do seem to recall concerns others have expressed about absorption of magnesium transdermally and the possible side effects thereof.  So to address that concern, should it arise again (since MgCl2 is a more bio-available form that magnesium hydroxide), I include this link that concludes that there have insufficient studies to form a reasonably conclusion as to the efficacy of transdermal application of MgCl2:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5579607/


----------



## Gaisy59

cmzaha said:


> It became very mushy in the tube, so I put it back in my cooler. Sorry not much great help, but I am guessing it would have thinned out even more than it did if I had left it out on the table. It was soft enough it would no longer roll up. Will claify I was not trying to sell it just testing if it would stand up to the heat. In my opinion it would not.
> 
> I melted the emulsifier and cetyl alcohol first then added in the BTMS50 to just melt without overheating and it still picked up a very fishy which is common with BTMS50, dang BTMS50 and it's fishy scent. I scented it with my DB and it seemed to intensify the fishy . I am not sure it is possible to keep it from melting in the hot weather we are having. I just poured another based on DeeAnna's recipe with a little tweak so will see how it does.
> 
> Edit to add...I have had the one from yesterday sitting on the kitchen counter for a couple of hrs after taking out of the cooler I had it in yesterday. I will say it is not liquifying just more squishy but staying in the tube. My kitchen at the moment is 95º F


Hmmmm would it be better if you had the rock hard babassu for hot summertime use instead of the softer one? A few posts back i mentioned that i had ordered one from New Directions which did not melt even in + 34 celsius.


----------



## earlene

Gaisy59 said:


> Hmmmm would it be better if you had the rock hard babassu for hot summertime use instead of the softer one? A few posts back i mentioned that i had ordered one from New Directions which did not melt even in + 34 celsius.



I don't know which babassu Carolyn has, but mine, which is hard and not soft until I melt it will not work as you suggest.  I've posted about this in past with my deo, but when I travel a simple 50:50 Magnesium hydroxide:babassu will soften when exposed to high heats of summer travel, especially in my car trunk, but also in the cabin of my car if not in the cooler with my food.  That's why I added beeswax, and later trying other waxes to increase the melting point.


----------



## Moose Wrangler

BattleGnome and Earlene,

Thanks for the info/thoughts. I tried it out because I saw other posts elsewhere about it. I can't compare to the magnesium hydroxide but I can say I wouldn't recommend the magnesium chloride. I ended up removing it because it caused an ever so slight burning sensation. No one wants that from their deodorant! 

Maybe it was the amount or the scent I put in the recipe. No idea, but not excited to try it again. I'll pick up some magnesium hydroxide and give it a try.


----------



## earlene

Be careful with the scent.  Check the safe usage for all fragrances you use.  Remember that deodorant is a category 2, so that's the percentage amount you can safely use (up to that amount, but less is okay) for a given fragrance. 

Read this for descriptions of the categories: https://soapmakingrules.com/2017/11/30/how-to-read-ifra-rates-fragrance-oils/

Read this for an example of where to find the IFRA safe usage recomendations for an FO at this supplier (you need to click on the IFRA link for any particular FO to see the amount.):
https://arizona-mad-oils.com/pages/msds-ifras-fragrances


----------



## SoaperForLife

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that it's not so much what goes in your deodorant recipe as it is your length of time away from conventional deodorants.  I have been using my own formulation for over a year now and others before that and the only time that I still caught a whiff of body odor was after my weekly horseback riding lesson.  Just recently I noticed that there wasn't any odor after that either and today I tried a different formulation with cocoa butter (test).  The cocoa butter actually separated from the active ingredient in my formulation but yet I'm out in the sun and heat today moving manure with a wheelbarrow and working in the garden and I don't smell anything.  To me, this is very similar to how things went when I was using a cold-process soap shampoo bar.  In the beginning I needed to use a vinegar rinse or my hair felt yucky but as time went on, I no longer needed the vinegar rinse and could go several days without shampooing.  I attribute the yucky feeling to the residue left behind from commercial products and once that was gone, well life got much better.  It would be interesting to know how long everyone has been using something other than the commercial deodorant and how things are working out for them now...


----------



## cmzaha

Gaisy59 said:


> Hmmmm would it be better if you had the rock hard babassu for hot summertime use instead of the softer one? A few posts back i mentioned that i had ordered one from New Directions which did not melt even in + 34 celsius.


I have Soaper's Choice Babassu it was less expensive than ND's and ND's only states that their Babassu is a soft white fat. So I really doubt it will work any different from what I have. 



earlene said:


> I don't know which babassu Carolyn has, but mine, which is hard and not soft until I melt it will not work as you suggest.  I've posted about this in past with my deo, but when I travel a simple 50:50 Magnesium hydroxide:babassu will soften when exposed to high heats of summer travel, especially in my car trunk, but also in the cabin of my car if not in the cooler with my food.  That's why I added beeswax, and later trying other waxes to increase the melting point.


I do not find that 50:50 is going to get through heat. I did try DeeAnna's last posted formula with a slight tweak of lowering the Babassu and adding in 2% IPM. It did hold up in the tube yesterday without going to paste. I think it might be a winner with the 30% MH.

@BattleGnome it was a soft paste. I scooped some into a deli cup and it is still a very soft paste, so it will need to be jarred if I decide to make and sell it during the summer. I did melt some down and added in 3% Candelilla Wax to toughen it up and it was way to much. I am going to try 1% and see how it works.


----------



## Gaisy59

earlene said:


> I don't know which babassu Carolyn has, but mine, which is hard and not soft until I melt it will not work as you suggest.  I've posted about this in past with my deo, but when I travel a simple 50:50 Magnesium hydroxide:babassu will soften when exposed to high heats of summer travel, especially in my car trunk, but also in the cabin of my car if not in the cooler with my food.  That's why I added beeswax, and later trying other waxes to increase the melting point.


Post 465 shows a softer babassu and this is a pic of the rock hard one...i have had both and believe me there is a difference


----------



## earlene

I don't doubt you, *Gaisy*, but what you have there is called babassu butter so I wonder if it is the same?  I wonder what specifically is different about it that it is called a butter instead of oil and if that contributes to the extra hardness of it.

What is the melting point of your 'rock-hard' babassu?  And could you provide a link to where you purchased it, as I cannot find a babassu butter on_line _that looks like that in my searches.  I'd like to learn more about it.

Also, I think your description of the 'soft' babassu was confusing to more than just me.  To me that babassu is not 'soft'.  It's a hard oil, as hard oils are defined, so I was under the impression that when you talked about a soft babassu that you meant a liquid babassu and not the solid that *DeeAnna* pictured in her post (#465 on page 24).

edit: corrrection of a partially missing word (on corrected to _online_)


----------



## Dahila

I had read reviews on Babassu butter and it suppose to be the hardest, I ordered babassu oil,  Which one do you use Ladies?


----------



## earlene

*Dahlia*, I use babassu oil from Soaper's Choice.  It is solid inside the plastic bottle when at room temperature.  It has a melting point of 76°F, so quite like CO.


----------



## Gaisy59

earlene said:


> I don't doubt you, *Gaisy*, but what you have there is called babassu butter so I wonder if it is the same?  I wonder what specifically is different about it that it is called a butter instead of oil and if that contributes to the extra hardness of it.
> 
> What is the melting point of your 'rock-hard' babassu?  And could you provide a link to where you purchased it, as I cannot find a babassu butter on_line _that looks like that in my searches.  I'd like to learn more about it.
> 
> Also, I think your description of the 'soft' babassu was confusing to more than just me.  To me that babassu is not 'soft'.  It's a hard oil, as hard oils are defined, so I was under the impression that when you talked about a soft babassu that you meant a liquid babassu and not the solid that *DeeAnna* pictured in her post (#465 on page 24).
> 
> edit: corrrection of a partially missing word (on corrected to _online_)


Hiya Earlene, i purchased the hard babassu from www.newdirectionsaromatics.ca and they also have a US affiliate. They do not give a melting point unfortunately, but it is definitely higher than the 76 degree one. Sorry about the soft and hard description but if you had them side by side you could feel that one was “hard” and the other “soft”. 

Soooo it is getting clearer now...i first ordered a butter and the second time i ordered the oil. Interesting because the butter does work it just has to be softened prior to usage, and this is the one that does travel well without melting. I think i will use both then. The oil for everyday and the butter for hot vacations.

Awesome! Thanks!


----------



## TeresaT

I’m on my iPad, so this will be harder to do.  I searched for the qualities of babassu oil.  There is good info regarding the plant and its origins and uses at www.pfaf.org (attalea speciosa - Mart.).  So far, everything I’ve found regarding the melting point unequivocally states it is around 76 degrees.  I don’t see anything listed as having a higher melting point.  I know the oil I purchased is from Soaper’s Choice and came in a gallon jug.  It was hard as a rock.  I melted it down and poured it into pint mason jars.  I’ve kept the jars in the fridge and the oil is like a brick.  However, they’ve been sitting on my kitchen counter since Thursday and they are STILL solid.  The last I checked (Saturday) I could NOT shove a metal spoon through a full jar of oil to touch the bottom.  That is a PINT sized glass jar sitting out on a counter.  I can take a metal knife and shove the entire thing into my full jar of coconut oil. That’s the huge gallon sized jar from Big Lots that I got on sale a couple of years ago.  The coconut oil is extremely soft and pours easily.  The coconut is a cloudy semi-liquid.  The babassu is a solid opaque white that has the hardness similar to cold lard. When it’s been in the fridge, it has the hardness similar to cold tallow.  (Cold tallow can be a lethal weapon!!)  Now they’re both listed as 76 degree melting point and they’re both sitting in a house with no air conditioning.  You would thing the container with the smaller volume would have the softer/more liquid contents; however, that is just not the case.  The huge jug of coconut oil has a much more liquid consistency than the smaller jars of babassu.  My personal, non scientific, completely factless assumption about this is: MAGIC.  No, not really, but close to it.  Whatever magical ingredient that naturally occurs in the babassu oil that does not occur in the coconut oil (thereby making the babassu oil the antibacterial oil that coconut oil is not) is responsible for the babassu staying harder at higher temperatures.  Those little germ fighters gotta beat the heat to stay alive and fight our funk.  They can’t do it if they’re swimming in an oil slick. They’re doing some little magic dance to keep their environment solid until it hits the pits.



Gaisy59 said:


> Hiya Earlene, i purchased the hard babassu from www.newdirectionsaromatics.ca and they also have a US affiliate. They do not give a melting point unfortunately, but it is definitely higher than the 76 degree one. Sorry about the soft and hard description but if you had them side by side you could feel that one was “hard” and the other “soft”.
> 
> Soooo it is getting clearer now...i first ordered a butter and the second time i ordered the oil. Interesting because the butter does work it just has to be softened prior to usage, and this is the one that does travel well without melting. I think i will use both then. The oil for everyday and the butter for hot vacations.
> 
> Awesome! Thanks!



This is interesting.  I looked at the products on the website and they actually have origin information, which I have never seen before.  The difference between the “butter” and the “oil” is in the processing.  I was afraid the butter was like other “butters” which would be a mix of the specific oil plus hydrogenated vegetable oil (usually palm).  I never buy “coffee butter” or “cranberry butter” for that reason.  However, according to the info posted, the butter is unrefined babassu seed kernel oil.  They basically smash it, get rid of the debris, wash it with water and that’s it.  The other is refined and bleached and deodorized and a whole bunch of other stuff done. Possibly (just guessing, I have no scientific background) during the refining process some of the fat solids are lost making a softer end product.  Kind of like the difference between full fat and 2% milk. There is definitely a watered down texture and mouth-feel that is evident when making soups and creamy desserts.  Maybe that mouth feel in foods got translated into melting point (or perceived melting point) or hardness (perceived hardness) in the end product.    Although, I like my “magic germ fighter” theory much better than this “how it’s processed” theory.


----------



## Gaisy59

TeresaT said:


> This is interesting.  I looked at the products on the website and they actually have origin information, which I have never seen before.  The difference between the “butter” and the “oil” is in the processing.  I was afraid the butter was like other “butters” which would be a mix of the specific oil plus hydrogenated vegetable oil (usually palm).  I never buy “coffee butter” or “cranberry butter” for that reason.  However, according to the info posted, the butter is unrefined babassu seed kernel oil.  They basically smash it, get rid of the debris, wash it with water and that’s it.  The other is refined and bleached and deodorized and a whole bunch of other stuff done. Possibly (just guessing, I have no scientific background) during the refining process some of the fat solids are lost making a softer end product.  Kind of like the difference between full fat and 2% milk. There is definitely a watered down texture and mouth-feel that is evident when making soups and creamy desserts.  Maybe that mouth feel in foods got translated into melting point (or perceived melting point) or hardness (perceived hardness) in the end product.    Although, I like my “magic germ fighter” theory much better than this “how it’s processed” theory.


Lol i love your “magic” concept because i dont understand it either. As for your germ fighter theory well that works for me too


----------



## Dahila

I took a look at the price of babassu butter and lost my interest,  Babassu oil works great for me 
It is hard, but will melt while on skin but like Coconut oil
I move small amount to jars and keep it in fridge to have ready when making deos, in deodorants tubes.  The rest is in freezer.  I buy it from New Direction Aromatics just in Canadian store
 BTW I like the magic too, it is magical to be able to make own products


----------



## cmzaha

My new try went very mushy. This one is based on DeeAnna's 30% Magnesium Hydroxide. It is really looking without the addition of a wax they just do not want to stop going to mush. I do not like the feel of wax in the deodorant.

 I also did not like the price of the Babassu Butter so will just have to work it out with the oil


----------



## SoaperForLife

Just for historical purposes, I want to comment on my earlier post regarding the effect that commercial deodorants have on your body.  I happened to be on Aromantic's website and clicked on their post entitled Switching to a Natural Deodorant  and found this paragraph "As most antiperspirants work by clogging the pores to prevent the sweat from escaping your body, they can cause not only skin inflammation, but also can produce a build-up of bacteria in the clogged pores that can lead to a worsened body odour - quite the opposite of the desired result!"  Finding this piqued my curiosity enough to search further and lo and behold, there was a scientific study corroborating my beliefs.  "Antiperspirant usage led toward an increase of Actinobacteria, which is an unfavorable situation with respect to body odor development.  These initial results show that axillary cosmetics modify the microbial community and can stimulate odor-producing bacteria.l


----------



## beckster51

TeresaT said:


> I’m on my iPad, so this will be harder to do.  I searched for the qualities of babassu oil.  There is good info regarding the plant and its origins and uses at www.pfaf.org (attalea speciosa - Mart.).  So far, everything I’ve found regarding the melting point unequivocally states it is around 76 degrees.  I don’t see anything listed as having a higher melting point.  I know the oil I purchased is from Soaper’s Choice and came in a gallon jug.  It was hard as a rock.  I melted it down and poured it into pint mason jars.  I’ve kept the jars in the fridge and the oil is like a brick.  However, they’ve been sitting on my kitchen counter since Thursday and they are STILL solid.  The last I checked (Saturday) I could NOT shove a metal spoon through a full jar of oil to touch the bottom.  That is a PINT sized glass jar sitting out on a counter.  I can take a metal knife and shove the entire thing into my full jar of coconut oil. That’s the huge gallon sized jar from Big Lots that I got on sale a couple of years ago.  The coconut oil is extremely soft and pours easily.  The coconut is a cloudy semi-liquid.  The babassu is a solid opaque white that has the hardness similar to cold lard. When it’s been in the fridge, it has the hardness similar to cold tallow.  (Cold tallow can be a lethal weapon!!)  Now they’re both listed as 76 degree melting point and they’re both sitting in a house with no air conditioning.  You would thing the container with the smaller volume would have the softer/more liquid contents; however, that is just not the case.  The huge jug of coconut oil has a much more liquid consistency than the smaller jars of babassu.  My personal, non scientific, completely factless assumption about this is: MAGIC.  No, not really, but close to it.  Whatever magical ingredient that naturally occurs in the babassu oil that does not occur in the coconut oil (thereby making the babassu oil the antibacterial oil that coconut oil is not) is responsible for the babassu staying harder at higher temperatures.  Those little germ fighters gotta beat the heat to stay alive and fight our funk.  They can’t do it if they’re swimming in an oil slick. They’re doing some little magic dance to keep their environment solid until it hits the pits.
> 
> 
> 
> This is interesting.  I looked at the products on the website and they actually have origin information, which I have never seen before.  The difference between the “butter” and the “oil” is in the processing.  I was afraid the butter was like other “butters” which would be a mix of the specific oil plus hydrogenated vegetable oil (usually palm).  I never buy “coffee butter” or “cranberry butter” for that reason.  However, according to the info posted, the butter is unrefined babassu seed kernel oil.  They basically smash it, get rid of the debris, wash it with water and that’s it.  The other is refined and bleached and deodorized and a whole bunch of other stuff done. Possibly (just guessing, I have no scientific background) during the refining process some of the fat solids are lost making a softer end product.  Kind of like the difference between full fat and 2% milk. There is definitely a watered down texture and mouth-feel that is evident when making soups and creamy desserts.  Maybe that mouth feel in foods got translated into melting point (or perceived melting point) or hardness (perceived hardness) in the end product.    Although, I like my “magic germ fighter” theory much better than this “how it’s processed” theory.


----------



## beckster51

I like the magic theory, Teresa, and I don't deny that there is a lot of magic going on in this world.  My unscientific observations are that babassu oil tends to stay in whatever state it finds itself.  For example, if it is hard as a rock, it takes a long time for it to become liquid, much more time than CO.  If it is hard as a brick, it tends to stay hard for a long time, even if in a hot room.  So, I wonder if something about babassu makes it tend to stay in the state it is in unless exposed to extreme temps.


----------



## beckster51

SoaperForLife said:


> Just for historical purposes, I want to comment on my earlier post regarding the effect that commercial deodorants have on your body.  I happened to be on Aromantic's website and clicked on their post entitled Switching to a Natural Deodorant  and found this paragraph "As most antiperspirants work by clogging the pores to prevent the sweat from escaping your body, they can cause not only skin inflammation, but also can produce a build-up of bacteria in the clogged pores that can lead to a worsened body odour - quite the opposite of the desired result!"  Finding this piqued my curiosity enough to search further and lo and behold, there was a scientific study corroborating my beliefs.  "Antiperspirant usage led toward an increase of Actinobacteria, which is an unfavorable situation with respect to body odor development.  These initial results show that axillary cosmetics modify the microbial community and can stimulate odor-producing bacteria.l


----------



## beckster51

I was under the impression that the magnesium hydroxide exerted an antiperspirant action.  It does on me.  I do not sweat freely when I use it.  When I use plain babassu in my pits, I sweat more, but I am somewhat odor free.  It's true that clogging your pores anywhere you perspire may result in bacterial problems.


----------



## Moose Wrangler

I find this conversation fascinating! I'm kind of the opposite of most here though... My babassu oil is completely liquid and from across the room it looks like water. My 76 coconut oil is not completely liquid, rather it's gel like in a semi solid state. Both oils are in the same cabinet.


----------



## cmzaha

Moose Wrangler said:


> I find this conversation fascinating! I'm kind of the opposite of most here though... My babassu oil is completely liquid and from across the room it looks like water. My 76 coconut oil is not completely liquid, rather it's gel like in a semi solid state. Both oils are in the same cabinet.


My Coconut oil and Babassu are both liquid in the heat we are having. My Cocoa Butter is softening and my PKO is softer than I have ever experienced with it. Actually I see one small container of pko is starting to melt. It is Hot !


----------



## Gaisy59

beckster51 said:


> I was under the impression that the magnesium hydroxide exerted an antiperspirant action.  It does on me.  I do not sweat freely when I use it.  When I use plain babassu in my pits, I sweat more, but I am somewhat odor free.  It's true that clogging your pores anywhere you perspire may result in bacterial problems.


Hi Beckster i use the mag/babassu deo and i still sweat but no stink so far


----------



## Gaisy59

cmzaha said:


> My new try went very mushy. This one is based on DeeAnna's 30% Magnesium Hydroxide. It is really looking without the addition of a wax they just do not want to stop going to mush. I do not like the feel of wax in the deodorant.
> 
> I also did not like the price of the Babassu Butter so will just have to work it out with the oil


I have been using both types of babassu at the 50:50 ratio and no other additives. So far so good.


----------



## cmzaha

Gaisy59 said:


> I have been using both types of babassu at the 50:50 ratio and no other additives. So far so good.


I am doing my best not to have to jar it, but think it just will not work. Today is supposed to be around 100º


----------



## Gaisy59

cmzaha said:


> I am doing my best not to have to jar it, but think it just will not work. Today is supposed to be around 100º


Ya if you are using the softer babassu it will melt. You guys have amazing heat! And you say the butter is softening but is it liquifying like the oil?


----------



## IrishLass

beckster51 said:


> I was under the impression that the magnesium hydroxide exerted an antiperspirant action.  It does on me.



I sweat quite freely with mine, but no stink.


IrishLass


----------



## SoaperForLife

So if you're using the babassu because it is high in lauric acid, why use the mag hydroxide?

And another question... why not just take one of a bazillion of baking soda/coconut oil deo recipes and just swap out the coconut oil for babassu and use the mag hydroxide instead of baking soda?  Obviously the babassu/mag. hydroxide recipe needs tweeking since a lot of people can't make it work the way it is...


----------



## Dahila

SoaperForLife said:


> And another question... why not just take one of a bazillion of baking soda/coconut oil deo recipes and just swap out the coconut oil for babassu and use the mag hydroxide instead of baking soda?  Obviously the babassu/mag. hydroxide recipe needs tweeking since a lot of people can't make it work the way it is...


deos with baking soda eventually will cause rash and irritation.  Even with very low percentage of baking soda,


----------



## earlene

SoaperForLife said:


> So if you're using the babassu because it is high in lauric acid, why use the mag hydroxide?



The magnesium hydroxide is what reduces the body odor.



SoaperForLife said:


> And another question... why not just take one of a bazillion of baking soda/coconut oil deo recipes and just swap out the coconut oil for babassu and use the mag hydroxide instead of baking soda?  Obviously the babassu/mag. hydroxide recipe needs tweeking since a lot of people can't make it work the way it is...



Those of us who like the magnesium hydroxide and babassu combination don't find this so horrendous a problem as you seem to think.  We are simply working out, though trial and error, combinations of ingredients to solve a minor problem with melt-ability of the product in hot weather.  This is no big deal IMO.

I have no desire to try some other recipe and start over.  I am happy with what I have so far, so there is no need to start over from scratch again.  I am grateful to *TeresaT* for doing the necessary footwork to get me to this point.  And incidentally, I would suggest that if you read through her earlier posts, she has already addressed that first question you ask in the above post.  If not to your satisfaction, then here's one reason I won't go that route.  I already have use some of those recipes and hated them.  This is _much much_ better (for me.)


----------



## DeeAnna

I agree with Earlene -- we're tweaking for refinement.

Those baking soda recipes I've seen also show the signs of tweaks. I suspect early versions were just a mix of coconut oil and baking soda. Now they have arrowroot powder, clay, and who knows what. People wanted to refine the recipes to make them less irritating or less likely to melt or whatever, so they added the other stuff.

Also, babassu (not just lauric acid, because babassu oil is a fat, not a fatty acid) reduces odor. Magnesium hydroxide in water (Milk of Magnesia) also reduces odor. But the combo does even better than the individual ingredients alone. Synergy!


----------



## cmzaha

I will say I am amazed with this. Market today was very very hot over 100 I perspired a lot and no stinky at all. I am just going to break down and jar it for summer or a squeeze tube of some kind. I do not want to really tweak the Babassu and Mag anymore so without adding in a wax it is not going to happen in a roll up tube. It is amazing an No irritation at all. Thankyou Theresa, DeeAnna and Irishlass


----------



## cmzaha

Gaisy59 said:


> Ya if you are using the softer babassu it will melt. You guys have amazing heat! And you say the butter is softening but is it liquifying like the oil?


My PKO is starting to liquify and that Never happens. I have not check my coco butter


----------



## TeresaT

I’m so thrilled that so many people are having such success with this.   I sent a sample of the deodorant to a friend in Washington, DC for him to try.  It was scented with cmzaha’s Dragon’s Blood FO, which smells amazing and has great all day staying power at just 2% total weight. I’m going to knock it down to 1% next time because I forgot how strong DB is when I threw it together for him. 



SoaperForLife said:


> So if you're using the babassu because it is high in lauric acid, why use the mag hydroxide?



I started this voyage because I researched the difference between babassu and coconut oils. They are pretty much interchangeable as far as making soap and deodorant (and cooking) are concerned.  However, the benefits that babassu has over coconut are the natural anti microbial quality of the oil, the quicker absorption yielding a less greasy feeling on the skin, and (most important for some) non-staining.  After that discovery, it was just a matter of finding a recipe that works for you.  I tried just babassu, babassu with anti microbial essential oils, babassu with neem  oil and a few other recipes, including various recipes with clay, diatomaceous earth and baking soda.  Irish Lass hit on the magnesium hydroxide (which I had never heard of) and after trying that, I discovered it was the best combination for odor fighting for me.  It does not eliminate odor for me 100%, but it’s as good as, if not better than, commercial products without plugging my sweat glands.  (I have noticed if I take prebiotic supplements daily, then I have no body odor. My body odor is 100% related to my gut health. I need to go back to taking prebiotic supplements and build up healthy gut flora.)  I hope this helps explain a bit.  I’m not a scientist. It had nothing to do with the fatty acid compounds in the oil, but the info I found about anti microbial qualities.


----------



## redhead1226

cmzaha said:


> My new try went very mushy. This one is based on DeeAnna's 30% Magnesium Hydroxide. It is really looking without the addition of a wax they just do not want to stop going to mush. I do not like the feel of wax in the deodorant.
> 
> I also did not like the price of the Babassu Butter so will just have to work it out with the oil





cmzaha said:


> My new try went very mushy. This one is based on DeeAnna's 30% Magnesium Hydroxide. It is really looking without the addition of a wax they just do not want to stop going to mush. I do not like the feel of wax in the deodorant.
> 
> I also did not like the price of the Babassu Butter so will just have to work it out with the oil



I use candellia wax and e-wax as Im in Florida and it wont stay solid otherwise.


----------



## cmzaha

I am just now going to make a small test using candelilla with soft and silky emulsifier. May I ask what percentage of candelilla you use?


----------



## BattleGnome

If it helps, I tried 5% beeswax (taken from the babassu) and ended up with a very brittle result. It would have probably worked in a tube but I’ve been experimenting with a silicone cupcake mold. 

I don’t know if candelilla will have the same result but the beeswax also clogged my pores. I ended up with non irritating bumps under my arms that cleared up quickly when I started using steric instead. YMMV


----------



## cmzaha

I am going to use 1% wax. I tried 3% and it was much to hard would not glide at all


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## SoaperForLife

_Earlene wrote "Those of us who like the magnesium hydroxide and babassu combination don't find this so horrendous a problem as you seem to think. We are simply working out, though trial and error, combinations of ingredients to solve a minor problem with melt-ability of the product in hot weather. This is no big deal IMO". 
_
Sure it's like a witches brew where you throw in a little bit of this and a little bit of that - I get it.  I've formulated my share of products over the years and am familiar with the procedure.  Just be aware that it is easy to go back and forth with ingredients, trying to balance hard with soft in a recipe and you end up with a whole long list of raw materials.  

_Then Earlene wrote "I have no desire to try some other recipe and start over. I am happy with what I have so far, so there is no need to start over from scratch again. I am grateful to *TeresaT* for doing the necessary footwork to get me to this point. And incidentally, I would suggest that if you read through her earlier posts, she has already addressed that first question you ask in the above post. If not to your satisfaction, then here's one reason I won't go that route. I already have use some of those recipes and hated them. This is much much better (for me.)"_

Obviously the babassu that some of the forum members are using doesn't stay solid for them and (to them) it is a problem and so they are adding this and that trying to come up with something that works for them.  If my question offended you so much you could have ignored it Earlene.  
_
_


----------



## Dahila

SoaperForLife said:


> _Earlene wrote "Those of us who like the magnesium hydroxide and babassu combination don't find this so horrendous a problem as you seem to think. We are simply working out, though trial and error, combinations of ingredients to solve a minor problem with melt-ability of the product in hot weather. This is no big deal IMO".
> _
> Sure it's like a witches brew where you throw in a little bit of this and a little bit of that - I get it.  I've formulated my share of products over the years and am familiar with the procedure.  Just be aware that it is easy to go back and forth with ingredients, trying to balance hard with soft in a recipe and you end up with a whole long list of raw materials.
> 
> _Then Earlene wrote "I have no desire to try some other recipe and start over. I am happy with what I have so far, so there is no need to start over from scratch again. I am grateful to *TeresaT* for doing the necessary footwork to get me to this point. And incidentally, I would suggest that if you read through her earlier posts, she has already addressed that first question you ask in the above post. If not to your satisfaction, then here's one reason I won't go that route. I already have use some of those recipes and hated them. This is much much better (for me.)"_
> 
> Obviously the babassu that some of the forum members are using doesn't stay solid for them and (to them) it is a problem and so they are adding this and that trying to come up with something that works for them.  If my question offended you so much you could have ignored it Earlene.


you need to use combination of few ingredients,  it stay solid and we have temps up to 100F or 40 celsius,  I pack mine into tubes and have very good results,  Feedback from my customers is very good.  Teresa gave us starting point but after tweaking it for months I got what I want ,  works perfect .   Why I read criticism from you post?  Do I read it right or not.


----------



## DeeAnna

"... If my question offended you so much you could have ignored it Earlene. ..."

@SoaperForLife -- Hmm. If you see any offense in Earlene's reply, then I can only conclude you have been having a bad day and are more inclined to see offense where none was intended. From my perspective, Earlene's response to your questions was a calm, factual, and thoughtful reply that took a fair bit of time to think about and write.

Please reconsider your criticism of Earlene  -- I think your conclusion is misplaced.


----------



## SoaperForLife

To further explore my hypothesis regarding the effects of homemade deodorant I decided to not apply any yesterday as a test.  I have been using artisanal deodorant for probably two years now.  Occasionally I will use a commercial product if I am working a craft show or attending a function where I don't want to sweat but 99 percent of the time it is my homemade one.  If you remember from an earlier post, I had mentioned a study where they determined that antiperspirant usage led to an increase in odor-producing bacteria.  It was in the low 80's yesterday with sun so perfect weather for this..... I shoveled up 6 wheelbarrow loads of manure from our equine loafing area and distributed them in a nearby paddock.  I weeded a bit in the herb garden and then did some work inside.  Around 5:30 in the afternoon I took a 3.5 mile hike up and down and around the neighborhood.  At no time did I notice any body odor.  If I had been wearing the homemade deodorant I would have attributed the lack of odor to the product but I wasn't.... I would be curious to see if some of you who have been wearing homemade deodorant for a long time would try going without for a day and see what happens....


----------



## cmzaha

Might have to concede to the fact these are not going to keep from melting in tubes.  Tried again with 2% candelilla wax leaving out the IPM and they still melted


----------



## Gaisy59

cmzaha said:


> Might have to concede to the fact these are not going to keep from melting in tubes.  Tried again with 2% candelilla wax leaving out the IPM and they still melted


As much as it is frustrating i have taken the positives out of everything. The babassu butter may be more expensive but it does last longer and is good for travelling as it is a higher melting point. I have to use a hair dryer to start it but that is fine. The babassu oil glides better for everyday use and if i have to keep it in the fridge during hot days so be it. But i can put it into a tube and it works great.

My recipe is the simplest at 50:50. I do not have stained clothes. Ido not have body stink. I do not have burned pits like i do from baking soda. I Do Not Have Clogged Pits because i still sweat freely.

People...this works and i find that the conversations are getting too stressed out and complicated. Keep it simple  and enjoy the ingredients discovered by Theresa and company.


----------



## DeeAnna

I can appreciate where you're coming from @Gaisy59 and I regret that you find our discussion of tweaks to be stressful.

But I have to say I don't see anything inappropriate about discussing adjustments to a formulation to make the product meet the needs of a wider group of people. Teresa's original recipe (babassu with clay) in this thread was a tweak of other people's ideas. The idea of using magnesium hydroxide was a "tweak" of T's recipe that was suggested by Irish Lass. The combination of babassu and mag hydroxide is thus an amalgam of tweaks.

Given how this idea came about, I don't know that anyone can draw a line in the sand and say the "original idea" for this deo is on one side of the line and all "tweaks" are on the other. I agree you can argue a 2 ingredient formulation is really simple and adding ingredients to increase the glidy-ness and melt temperature is adding complexity. But if the added complexity also adds usefulness and pleasantness to the product so it pleases a wider group of people, I see that as a positive thing.

Look at general soap making and all the crazy things people add to soap or do to soap. I think a fair bit of it is silly, but I can see people are having fun, so I generally don't say much if I think there is no harm in what they're doing. I see the discussion here in much the same vein -- people are having fun, the tweaks are hopefully helping the basic formulation work better for more people, and the results are not harmful as best we can see.


----------



## earlene

I still sweat, too, *Gaisy59.*  How much is really dependent on activity levels or heat levels in the absence of climate control.  Has it diminished in any way?  I cannot truly be sure of that.  There are just too many variables at play.

As to being able to determine how much I smell, well I have to say that's totally a subjective assessment.  I don't think I can be a completely reliable source to say my sweat doesn't stink as much as before.  To me it's just too subjective.  It seems to me that it's true, but there are so many variable contributing factors that contribute to the odor of sweat, including dietary intake changes, activity level changes, stress level changes, etc.  So, I don't feel well qualified to say without a doubt, this is the end-all and be-all of deodorant.  But I'm really pretty happy with it and do believe on a personal level it's working very well for me.  And when I add the DB fragrance, I absolutely love it for staying power as a fragrance.

BTW, *SoaperForLife*, I do regularly go some days without deo.  My lifestyle doesn't require me to work with other people on a daily basis.  Sometimes my activity level is so minimal, I don't even notice myself sweat at all, so don't feel a need to wear deo on some days.  If I go out, I do wear it.  After a shower, I usually put it on, but when I am at home I do not shower daily; even on the road, I don't always shower daily.  Now and then I may feel a need to shower twice in a day and those are days I tend to re-apply deo twice in one day (heat & activity related).   But in spite of that, I can't really report on what happens when I go without deo because  I've been like this for many years, even when I wore commercially made deo.  Days without deo have always been a normal part of my life, except when I worked 60 hours a week, which I did for many years, but even then, I think I didn't always wear it on my days off work.  But as to what happens differently than on days with deo?  I don't really see anything different.  If there is anything different, I have become so used to it, I don't notice.


----------



## Gaisy59

DeeAnna said:


> I can appreciate where you're coming from @Gaisy59 and I regret that you find our discussion of tweaks to be stressful.
> 
> But I have to say I don't see anything inappropriate about discussing adjustments to a formulation to make the product meet the needs of a wider group of people. Teresa's original recipe (babassu with clay) in this thread was a tweak of other people's ideas. The idea of using magnesium hydroxide was a "tweak" of T's recipe that was suggested by Irish Lass. The combination of babassu and mag hydroxide is thus an amalgam of tweaks.
> 
> Given how this idea came about, I don't know that anyone can draw a line in the sand and say the "original idea" for this deo is on one side of the line and all "tweaks" are on the other. I agree you can argue a 2 ingredient formulation is really simple and adding ingredients to increase the glidy-ness and melt temperature is adding complexity. But if the added complexity also adds usefulness and pleasantness to the product so it pleases a wider group of people, I see that as a positive thing.
> 
> Look at general soap making and all the crazy things people add to soap or do to soap. I think a fair bit of it is silly, but I can see people are having fun, so I generally don't say much if I think there is no harm in what they're doing. I see the discussion here in much the same vein -- people are having fun, the tweaks are hopefully helping the basic formulation work better for more people, and the results are not harmful as best we can see.


Oh no no im just saying that some people are getting critical of what you guys are doing and what i am saying is i agree with what you are doing and yes we all adjust our likes and dislikes accordingly. I guess i didnt phrase it correctly. Kept it too simple lol. I love this thread and have received much help as i have had problems and i see everyone is trying to sort out all their problems as well. Im just getting bad vibes from some of the comments.


----------



## cmzaha

Adding to DeeAnna's number 520 post   Since I sell why in the world would I want a 2 ingredient formula. There are enough DIY'ers out there. I am certainly not going to sell something easily copied.  Mentioning soap, many times my additives are for label appeal, knowing most add nothing to soap...


----------



## Gaisy59

cmzaha said:


> Adding to DeeAnna's number 520 post   Since I sell why in the world would I want a 2 ingredient formula. There are enough DIY'ers out there. I am certainly not going to sell something easily copied.  Mentioning soap, many times my additives are for label appeal, knowing most add nothing to soap...


Interesting...


----------



## KristaY

I just remade my deo using my 1st babassu and it's awesome. Firm enough to roll up from my containers but melts easily when applied and glides smoothly. (No ripping the skin off my pits like Gaisy experienced). The previous batch which has the 2nd babassu is so soft I can only firm it up by putting it in the fridge, then it's too firm to roll up. Basically it's a gloopy goo. Yes, it's hot out there but it's usually 75-76 in my house. Travelling with it is a mess. So now I'm wondering if I got the butter 1st time and straight oil the 2nd time. Both containers say the same thing "INCI: Orbignya Oleifera Seed Oil. SAP 245-256". If the 1st one is truly babassu butter, shouldn't the label include the hydrogenated oils that would make it a butter? I've sent an email to the company asking them about it but haven't received a reply yet.


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## SoaperForLife

Day two - same result as yesterday.  No deodorant and no stink.


----------



## Gaisy59

KristaY said:


> I just remade my deo using my 1st babassu and it's awesome. Firm enough to roll up from my containers but melts easily when applied and glides smoothly. (No ripping the skin off my pits like Gaisy experienced). The previous batch which has the 2nd babassu is so soft I can only firm it up by putting it in the fridge, then it's too firm to roll up. Basically it's a gloopy goo. Yes, it's hot out there but it's usually 75-76 in my house. Travelling with it is a mess. So now I'm wondering if I got the butter 1st time and straight oil the 2nd time. Both containers say the same thing "INCI: Orbignya Oleifera Seed Oil. SAP 245-256". If the 1st one is truly babassu butter, shouldn't the label include the hydrogenated oils that would make it a butter? I've sent an email to the company asking them about it but haven't received a reply yet.


Its confusing isnt it. And why are some companies only selling the butter while others only sell the oil? Thats how i was confused in the first place.


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## SoaperForLife

When I google on babassu butter I get body butter for sale or recipes for body butter or babassu oil.  BTW, did anyone get the latest email from WSP with the deodorant recipe?  They are using magnesium stearate in their recipe "for its odor reducing properties" which I am questioning because when I google on it, it doesn't have much to say on that... *Earline - this is the end of day three of no deodorant. *Granted I didn't spend much time outdoors today so I didn't sweat at all but even when I sweat, there is no odor.  I have never gone without wearing deodorant before - even though I don't work off the farm.  It took a long time to get to this point and I'm just going to keep on with the experiment until people avoid me.


----------



## earlene

SoaperForLife said:


> When I google on babassu butter I get body butter for sale or recipes for body butter or babassu oil.  BTW, did anyone get the latest email from WSP with the deodorant recipe?  They are using magnesium stearate in their recipe "for its odor reducing properties" which I am questioning because when I google on it, it doesn't have much to say on that... *Earline - this is the end of day three of no deodorant. *Granted I didn't spend much time outdoors today so I didn't sweat at all but even when I sweat, there is no odor.  I have never gone without wearing deodorant before - even though I don't work off the farm.  It took a long time to get to this point and I'm just going to keep on with the experiment until people avoid me.



That's quite interesting that you are on day 3 without an odor.

I passed by a woman with her children in the grocery store today whose odor (her odor, not the kids) was so horribly strong and offensive, it made me wonder if they had a home or working plumbing in their home or if she has an illness causing the odor.  Sometimes in public restrooms, I will notice that some women's body odors are not revealed until they partially disrobe to use the facilities, and then it lingers in the room for a while after they are gone (I am not talking about the average normal odor, but the 'she hasn't washed in over a week' kind of odor.)

So watch for that.  I don't know how sensitive your nose is, as all of us have varying degrees of ability to smell things, some of us can smell things the average person doesn't even notice.  And I do truly believe some of us are poor judges of our own personal odors, for whatever reason.  Me, I can smell the chemical changes of illness when either of my sons are sick.  I thought it was a 'mom' thing, which may be to some degree true (I don't really know if there even is such a 'mom' thing), but I've also learned that my nose is more sensitive than some, although not as sensitive as some others.  My husband who was a smoker for decades can't smell a lot of things I can smell.  And I've got a pretty good sense of taste, which is linked to the olfactory sense, so it's not surprising I can ID foods going off before a few others in my family (they also happen to be smokers/former smokers.) Many things can interfere with the sense of smell, though, not just smoking.

BTW, my name has no 'i'.


----------



## Moose Wrangler

Success!

I made a second batch with magnesium hydroxide. Unlike the first batch with magnesium chloride there was no burning sensation this time.


----------



## TeresaT

earlene said:


> That's quite interesting that you are on day 3 without an odor.
> 
> I passed by a woman with her children in the grocery store today whose odor (her odor, not the kids) was so horribly strong and offensive, it made me wonder if they had a home or working plumbing in their home or if she has an illness causing the odor.  Sometimes in public restrooms, I will notice that some women's body odors are not revealed until they partially disrobe to use the facilities, and then it lingers in the room for a while after they are gone (I am not talking about the average normal odor, but the 'she hasn't washed in over a week' kind of odor.)
> 
> So watch for that.  I don't know how sensitive your nose is, as all of us have varying degrees of ability to smell things, some of us can smell things the average person doesn't even notice.  And I do truly believe some of us are poor judges of our own personal odors, for whatever reason.



That’s because we become accustomed to it.  We don’t smell our own “morning breath” even though it is directly under our nose because we’ve acclimated to it. We don’t find our own body odors offensive because we’ve become used to it.  It has to be really bad for us to notice, or we have to be consciously seeking it. At that point, if WE notice it, what do others smell? 

Based on my own personal experiences, I cannot believe after three days with no deodorant at all, there is no odor. Especially if s/he is that physically active.  Is the OP using deodorant soap or deodorizing powder? It doesn’t have to be a commercial product, BB has a deodorant additive composed of enzymes that works well in cold process soap according to their website. I know it works well in my deodorant. DE and baking soda are what give my untalcum powder the deodorant quality that it had, however little it may be; even on the hottest and most humid days, there is no odor or wetness in my groin and stomach overhang areas.  

I don’t know anyone that is that physically active that wouldn’t stink after not using deodorant for three days.  I don’t know anyone that lives a sedentary life that wouldn’t have at least some noticeable odor after three days of not using deodorant. The only exception would be a dedicated vegan that takes prebiotic suppliments religiously.  I say that because I know I stink less when I have a mostly vegetarian diet; I’ve never gone full vegan, so I can’t say for sur there’s no odor.  I was taking a prebiotic supplement for a few months and noticed very little body odor and my IBS was completely under control.  I had no issues while I was taking the prebiotics. I stopped because they were too expensive for me. I’m thinking of starting again, though.  If the OP is vegan with prebiotics, I’d believe there’s no odor.  Other than that, I’m quite sceptical of the “no” odor.  Everyone has odor to some degree.  How bad or negative that odor is perceived is entirely up to the smeller.


----------



## DeeAnna

Off topic to @TeresaT -- Have you considered making and eating lacto-fermented food, such as sauerkraut? Or other kinds of fermented food that are good for the digestive system? I'm not a health care person, and I don't have IBS, but my digestive system can get out of whack from stress, so I sometimes have to deal with a rumbly, unhappy gut. If I regularly eat small quantities of the sauerkraut I make -- say one forkful per day -- my digestive system stays much happier. I think it works as good as the probiotic supplements I was taking. And the price is waaay better. Just a thought....

And now back to the deo topic -- My dad's parents (born 1898 and 1900) and my uncle who lived with them throughout his life took weekly baths. My uncle had what I now realize is a body odor. It wasn't a strongly offensive smell ... just kind of oddly musty ... so as a kid I just thought that was just him, no big deal. So I can imagine that some people might have BO of this type, but BO it most certainly was. 

I find underarm odor personally distasteful, so when it crops up, it adds to my stress level, which adds to the BO, which adds to the stress, and so on. I also know how one's nose can become accustomed to it and how easily BO can put others off. Regular bathing, using deodorant, and wearing fresh clothing are important ways that help me prevent this problem.


----------



## IrishLass

DeeAnna said:


> And now back to the deo topic -- My dad's parents (born 1898 and 1900) and my uncle who lived with them throughout his life took weekly baths. My uncle had what I now realize is a body odor. It wasn't a strongly offensive smell ... just kind of oddly musty ... so as a kid I just thought that was just him, no big deal. So I can imagine that some people might have BO of this type, but BO it most certainly was.



This reminds me of when I was a teenager and my Great Auntie came out to visit us for 2 weeks and slept with me in my room. She was in her 70's and only took a bath once a week.....and boy did she ever progressively smell worse and worse as the days wore on after bath day. She couldn't smell her BO herself, but it was sheer torture for me who had to endure sleeping in the same room with her for a whole week. Her nose/smeller was fine, i.e., she had absolutely no trouble smelling a myriad of other things, but she just was not able to smell her own BO.

A very funny story from our past family files concerns my sis.....for the longest time she was convinced that her feet never, ever stank, not even after going for her usual daily run or playing various sports in the same pair of sweaty old sneakers, and she would often brag to us how her feet never smelled (they did, by the way....at least to our noses, but we could never, ever convince her of that). Anyway, for whatever reason her nose just couldn't detect it. Then one day when we were in our early 30's I got a phone call from her out of the blue regaling to me in an incredulous tone that (gasp!) her feet really did stink! She explained how she had come in from a run, took her shoes off, and was puttering around the house doing various chores when she kept getting whiffs of an unpleasant odor as she went about tidying up the place. After looking around a bit to try and see if she could pinpoint where the smell was coming from, she discovered to her horror it was her own feet!  I don't know when I ever laughed so hard!


IrishLass


----------



## SoaperForLife

From what I gather you can get some idea of whether or not you smell by taking your clothes off and smelling them and you can even use the old soap maker's coffee trick to help with that.  Huff Post had an article about a smartphone app that could be used (along with some sort of accessory) to check for smells and there are actually several devices that can be used to check for body odor that are unfortunately out of my price range at this point in time.  My husband is an Aspie (Asperger's Syndrome) and delights in telling me if I have visible nose hairs or my feet smell so I'm sure that he would have mentioned something if I smelled off to him.  I did have to apply my homemade deodorant yesterday as we were going to a family function.  Interestingly the niece that was there wears a homemade deodorant with coconut oil and clay and not sure what all else (the printing on the label had worn off) so there were two of us there with non-commercial products on.  I routinely check my shirts for odor and staining after I remove them and will often check again when they've sat in the laundry basket for a day or so.  

And so the question begs to be asked... if I can't smell myself to check for body odor when I don't use deodorant then how do you really know that your homemade deodorant is actually effective?  Ask a stranger on the street? Gauge how fascinated your dog is with your arm pits? Whether your co-workers resist leaning into your cubicle or pass by you with funny looks on their faces?


----------



## DeeAnna

SoaperForLife said:


> ...if I can't smell myself to check for body odor when I don't use deodorant then how do you really know that your homemade deodorant is actually effective?  Ask a stranger on the street? Gauge how fascinated your dog is with your arm pits? Whether your co-workers resist leaning into your cubicle or pass by you with funny looks on their faces?



Short answer: Yep, pretty much.

Longer answer: I think most people can tell if they have a bad case of BO that crops up due to unusual circumstances, but I do think it can be hard for a person to smell a low to moderate amount of funkiness especially if the odor is an ongoing, typical thing. Think of my uncle or IL's sister as examples. If it is important for you to test what's an acceptable level of normal body odor, you'll have to ask good friends and family for help.


----------



## TeresaT

DeeAnna said:


> Off topic to @TeresaT -- Have you considered making and eating lacto-fermented food, such as sauerkraut? Or other kinds of fermented food that are good for the digestive system? I'm not a health care person, and I don't have IBS, but my digestive system can get out of whack from stress, so I sometimes have to deal with a rumbly, unhappy gut. If I regularly eat small quantities of the sauerkraut I make -- say one forkful per day -- my digestive system stays much happier. I think it works as good as the probiotic supplements I was taking. And the price is waaay better. Just a thought....
> 
> And now back to the deo topic -- My dad's parents (born 1898 and 1900) and my uncle who lived with them throughout his life took weekly baths. My uncle had what I now realize is a body odor. It wasn't a strongly offensive smell ... just kind of oddly musty ... so as a kid I just thought that was just him, no big deal. So I can imagine that some people might have BO of this type, but BO it most certainly was.
> 
> I find underarm odor personally distasteful, so when it crops up, it adds to my stress level, which adds to the BO, which adds to the stress, and so on. I also know how one's nose can become accustomed to it and how easily BO can put others off. Regular bathing, using deodorant, and wearing fresh clothing are important ways that help me prevent this problem.



I eat kimchi frequently because I like the taste.  I don’t eat sauerkraut as often as I used to, just because I don’t eat kielbasa or hot dogs much anymore.  I probably should substitute the sauerkraut for the kimchi since it’s cheaper and not as spicy.  I tried kombucha once and was thoroughly grossed out by it, so never again for that.  I just bought six containers of PrebioThrive, so that will do me good for about half a year.  I try to drink kefir at least once a month to increase the gut bacteria, but I’ve been slacking the past several months.   Thanks for the tip, though.  I’ve read that fermented foods are really good for you because of the probiotics (which way the green light I needed to indulge in my kimchi obsession) but kimchi, sauerkraut and kombucha are the only fermented foods I know about.  Except the fermented camel milk in the Middle East.  I’m pretty safe from that, though.


----------



## DeeAnna

Kimchi is good too! And you can make it yourself as well, if you want to get into making fermented foods -- I agree making lacto-fermented food is not everyone's cuppa tea. My husband and I eat a small helping of cold sauerkraut a lot like people sometimes eat a pickle with a meal.

I just started making kombucha with the encouragement of the people posting on this thread -- https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/kombucha-brewers.69729/ My previous experience with other people's kombucha ranged from nasty to ... okay, but odd. So far, my kombucha tastes a lot like iced tea with a slice of lemon and a dash of sugar. Now I'm getting fond of the stuff.


----------



## LiLiSoapz

How does one quote the past two pages of utter hilarious undertones for scientific purposes?



TeresaT said:


> I eat kimchi frequently because I like the taste.  I don’t eat sauerkraut as often as I used to, just because I don’t eat kielbasa or hot dogs much anymore.  I probably should substitute the sauerkraut for the kimchi since it’s cheaper and not as spicy.  I tried kombucha once and was thoroughly grossed out by it, so never again for that.  I just bought six containers of PrebioThrive, so that will do me good for about half a year.  I try to drink kefir at least once a month to increase the gut bacteria, but I’ve been slacking the past several months.   Thanks for the tip, though.  I’ve read that fermented foods are really good for you because of the probiotics (which way the green light I needed to indulge in my kimchi obsession) but kimchi, sauerkraut and kombucha are the only fermented foods I know about.  Except the fermented camel milk in the Middle East.  I’m pretty safe from that, though.



If you like coffee or other such beverages a cool substitute is an herb called Chicory Root.  The best part of it is that it is a PREBIOTIC.  Other such herbs are:

dandelion root
burdock root
marshmallow root
elecampane root
licorice root
slippery elm (on the United Plant Savers At-Risk list)
plantain

You can also get prebiotic benefits from certain fruits and veggies like:

bananas
onions
garlic
leeks
asparagus
Jerusalem artichokes
I already knew about some of these, but the bullets were taken directly from a website called "The Herbal Academy".  Some of these could probably also double as a soaping additive.

ETA:  Thank you so much for all who have positively contributed to this thread. I've read the whole thing and have been delightfully encouraged by the sharing and contributions that grew from a simple (yet amusing) observance.  @TeresaT, you have truly sparked a Renaissance in this thread.


----------



## SoaperForLife

LiLiSoapz said:


> I already knew about some of these, but the bullets were taken directly from a website called "The Herbal Academy". Some of these could probably also double as a soaping additive.


Funny that you should post this as I was thinking along similar lines but more attuned to liver function than to having prebiotic properties.  Some of the above mentioned roots are used to detox the liver.  A good site for learning more is https://www.chinesemedicineliving.com/medicine/organs/the-liver/ I am studying herbalism and during my coursework discovered that I had symptoms pointing to a liver deficiency... which I have since tried to work to correct.  Perhaps natural deodorants work better when you follow a liver friendly diet....


----------



## bneylan

I'm so glad I found this thread.  I hate using supermarket spray deodorants but they have been the only ones to work.  Recently I tried a product called 'no pong'.  it's fab.  A little tub of mild smelling paste - I'm sure it has baking soda in it.  No problems with my skin so far.  I am going to try some of the things here too.  And so happy to hear about tummy fold areas and also for me under boobies.  Still doing hot flushes, so get sweaty easily.  All those fold areas get raw and all medical people can offer is cortisone cream !


----------



## earlene

I sure found a winner for the heat tolerance of the babassu this trip!  My car has not only tested my patience and heat tolerance, it has also tested my deodorant using Magnesium Hydroxide in Babassu oil (and additives) with temps inside the cabin of my car remaining at a constant 114°F  for several hours and also 120°F for at least 2-3 hours for two or three days in a row this trip!

I forgot to put my deo into my cooler in my car on Saturday morning in my rush to pack the car and depart my hotel room.   I showered after packing, so my deo stayed out of the cooler, and I forgot to put it there as planned when I got into the car.  It sat in a small bag with a few last minute things on the floor of the passenger's side of the car while driving without the aide of AC for two full days before I realized where I had left it.  On Sunday morning when I couldn't find it, I wasn't even sure where I'd put it, if it was in my car's cabin or the trunk or even left behind in the hotel.  I did later realize where it was while trying to cool off at a rest area parked in a non-parking space under some trees for the shade.  There it was un-melted after several hours inside that horribly hot car.

Remembering the time I brought it along and it melted when it was only babassu & MgOH, and since then with the 3% beeswax when I always kept it in the cooler, but didn't think to actually test it outside the cooler, but even if I had, my AC didn't go out until this trip, I know for sure the added cera bellina wax and rice bran wax (accidentally used two when my plan was to use only one, but since it's done, that's what I am currently using) will not melt in a car with such high temps sitting all day and all night for a minimum of 48 hours. 

Now when I say 120°F, I am talking about the heat in the cabin of the car while I was inside of it and driving with and windows cracked for ventilation.  This does not account for the heat build-up while I was not inside the car when I locked the car to go inside rest rooms, etc, which I did a few times.  The heat would tend to build up even more in those situations, but I failed to make note of any temperatures inside the car higher than 120° because I was really trying to figure out how hot the air my AC was blowing through the vents.  Obviously, not a desirable situation, but I certainly learned something about my current deo formula's resistance to heat inside a hot car!  Do I plan to repeat this accidental experiment?  Not if I can help it, but since the AC in my car isn't fixed yet, the opportunity still exists!  But this is the only deo I have with me, so no, not any time soon.


----------



## SoaperForLife

*FULL LIST OF INGREDIENTS INCLUDING FRAGRANCE:*
*NO PONG ORIGINAL*
Cocos Nucifera (Coconut Oil), Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking Soda), Corn Starch, Beeswax, and a proprietary blend of 100% pure, Australian certified organic essential oils consisting of Orange Sweet, Vanilla, Lemongrass, Cedarwood Atlas, Bergamot, Lime, Frankincense, Ylang Ylang, and Geranium, that together give No Pong it’s fresh gender neutral smell.

*NO PONG – LOW FRAGRANCE, BICARB FREE*
Our latest formula is a delicious, earthy, patent-pending formulation of Cocos Nucifera (Coconut Oil), Magnesium Hydroxide, Diatomaceous Earth, Beeswax, and a reduced concentration of our fresh, gender neutral, proprietary blend of 100% pure, Australian certified organic essential oils consisting of Orange Sweet, Vanilla, Lemongrass, Cedarwood Atlas, Bergamot, Lime, Frankincense, Ylang Ylang, and Geranium.


----------



## earlene

bneylan said:


> I'm so glad I found this thread.  I hate using supermarket spray deodorants but they have been the only ones to work.  Recently I tried a product called 'no pong'.  it's fab.  A little tub of mild smelling paste - I'm sure it has baking soda in it.  No problems with my skin so far.  I am going to try some of the things here too.  And so happy to hear about tummy fold areas and also for me under boobies.  Still doing hot flushes, so get sweaty easily.  All those fold areas get raw and all medical people can offer is cortisone cream !



For me I have had success using an OTC anti-fungal spray (the kind used for athlete's foot) to treat the Intertrigo that results in the abdominal fold.  There are anti-fungal powders as well, but I prefer the spray for ease of use.  

An interesting aside re: MOM (mainly magnesium sulfate) and tongue injuries from biting the tongue.  I have been suffering the painful result of biting my tongue (so much stress over my car problems I suppose), probably in my sleep because I don't remember the event happening.  Healing was taking so long that I decided to look for some home remedies online and found a site that recommends coating the bitten tongue with MOM.  Since I had a bottle of MOM in my car, I decided to give it a try.  It actually did relieve the pain for a short time.  It doesn't feel as though it has aided any healing, though.  I was surprised by the actual reduction of discomfort, though.  Yet I do remain skeptical about it promoting healing.


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## SoaperForLife

Spotted a new deodorant targeted for men on the Duluth Trading Site called Spit & Polish.  Ingredients are: Sodium Bicarbonate, Coconut Oil, Candelilla Wax, Arrowroot Powder, MCT Oil, Pumpkinseed Oil, Shea Butter, Fragrance, Rosemary Leaf Extract, Carrot Seed Essential Oil, Tea Tree Essential Oil, Aloe Vera Extract, Vitamin E, Aspen Bark Extract.  I like investigating ingredients and thought maybe some of you would too.  Lotioncrafters sells an aspen bark extract and here is some of what they have to say about it - "Today, the natural salicylates in Aspen Bark have been isolated by Active Micro Technologies and standardized between 54.0 - 60% in PhytoCide Aspen Bark Extract Powder.  This powder has been found to have a useful activity as an antimicrobial in cosmetic and personal care products. Initial efficacy testing has shown it to be effective at inhibiting the growth of E. coli, S. aureus, B. subtilis, P. aeuruginosa, yeast and mold. Additionally, it may also impart a smooth feel to the skin." I'm guessing that they incorporate the MCT oil for its higher lauric acid content? Anyone else care to comment on this recipe?


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## earlene

Salycilates (acetylsalicylic acid to be specific) are what's in aspirin, which is why when you are hiking and have a toothache chewing on willow bark is recommended by some naturalists.   Salycilates appear to act as a natural pesticide to protect the plants in which they are present, such as slippery elm, willow and many other vegetable matter, like broccoli and several other fruits and vegetables.  For people with salycilate sensitivities, which may include fibromayalga, it is recommended to avoid some of these foods and products containing these ingredients.  Just thought I'd mention that, as there are reasons some people cannot use a deodorant with salycilates.


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## SoaperForLife

earlene said:


> Salycilates (acetylsalicylic acid to be specific) are what's in aspirin, which is why when you are hiking and have a toothache chewing on willow bark is recommended by some naturalists. Salycilates appear to act as a natural pesticide to protect the plants in which they are present, such as slippery elm, willow and many other vegetable matter, like broccoli and several other fruits and vegetables. For people with salycilate sensitivities, which may include fibromayalga, it is recommended to avoid some of these foods and products containing these ingredients. Just thought I'd mention that, as there are reasons some people cannot use a deodorant with salycilates.



Yup, did know about salycilates as I included wintergreen eo in an arnica salve I used to make and it also has salycilates in it.


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## Obsidian

Thanks to generous members, I've been testing out a couple different types of defunk. One is the basic 50/50 bab/mag and the other has more stuff, including some of that deodorant additive from BB.
Honestly, I don't notice much difference between the two besides that one the extra ingredients is a bit more silky, glides just a little easier. Both work the same as far as keeping the stink away.

I do have a weird thing happen though and I have to wonder if it me or if others have experienced this too. I don't start to smell for a couple of days and even then, its pretty mild but at the end of day one, there is a really bad musty smell. After some investigating, I discovered it is my clothing.
For some reason, my shirts develop a funk in the pit area, bad enough I sometimes have to change my shirt in the middle of the day.
Its weird and I'd like to get to the bottom of the cause. All my deodorant it unscented. Going to melt down on jar and add some scent, see if that might help things.


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## SoaperForLife

Let me get this right... your pits don't smell but you've noticed that your clothing smells?  I would guess that your under arm odor is transferring to your clothing.... which means the deodorant isn't working as well as you'd like.  





Obsidian said:


> I do have a weird thing happen though and I have to wonder if it me or if others have experienced this too. I don't start to smell for a couple of days and even then, its pretty mild but at the end of day one, there is a really bad musty smell. After some investigating, I discovered it is my clothing.
> For some reason, my shirts develop a funk in the pit area, bad enough I sometimes have to change my shirt in the middle of the day.
> Its weird and I'd like to get to the bottom of the cause. All my deodorant it unscented. Going to melt down on jar and add some scent, see if that might help things.


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## Mary M

Your posts are a treat to read.....I will need to experiment with the Babassu, sounds interesting. I currently use a Magnesium Oil with a smidge of glycerin and a few drops of essential oils. Sells well in my product line, it’s totally non staining, dries quickly and lasts all day. Only draw back, must shave pits night before, the burn is bad on freshly shaven pits


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## lenarenee

Has anyone ordered babassu from Amazon and gotten the hard oil?  I'd appreciate if you'd let me know what brand it is.


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## homesteaders

I had a strange thing happen with my Babassu-Magnesium Hydroxide deodorant. It was working great, and then I changed from Amazon's Babassu (Dr. Adorable brand) to Soaper's Choice. About a week after making the new batch, it was all grainy. I've never had shea butter get grainy, but I guess it's like that. When I try to rub the deodorant stick across my arm, it sort of falls apart in little clumps. When I press with my finger, it's too soft for a stick deodorant. There are little "grains" of oil throughout that melt quickly on my arm when I rub it.  This has never happened before! I'd like to know the culprit. Since the only change has been in brand of Babassu oil, I assume that's it, but I don't know. I'll post my recipe here. I tested combinations of ingredients until I hit on something that worked well for my family and friends (testers). My babassu was Amazon's Dr. Adorable brand. The final deodorant that I've been using for about a year or so glided and was very smooth to apply. Not mushy in warm weather, and not too hard to apply in cold weather. It didn't melt in the car, but I'm sure it would have been too soft to apply if I had tried, but that wasn't a criteria for me so I didn't worry about that. I made it with different essential oils, and made some batches with a little charcoal. All has been great for quite awhile. Then I purchased from Soaper's Choice. That may not be what caused the grainy, mushy batch. I'd sure appreciate any suggestions, ideas and advice for fixing this batch. It was a large batch to add to Christmas gifts. Anything I can do to fix it? Here's my recipe:

46% Babassu Oil
25% Magnesium Hydroxide
15% Emulsifying Wax (I've found that different brands require different amounts sometimes)
14% Cetyl Alcohol
Essential Oils or Fragrance Oils - amount varies
I've also added a little activated charcoal and/or bentonite clay without any change.
Does Babassu require tempering? Maybe I let it get too hot while making it. I can scoop the deodorant out of the tube with my fingers to use it, but that won't do for gifts. Any help is appreciated.


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## Dahila

I would think too much cetyl, I do not go lower than 35% of magnesium, it works great every batch, I have such wonderful feedback on it


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## homesteaders

Dahila said:


> I would think too much cetyl, I do not go lower than 35% of magnesium, it works great every batch, I have such wonderful feedback on it


Thank you, Dahila. Where do you buy Babassu, or do you think that makes any difference. Just wondering because my recipe has worked great until I used the babassu from Soaper's Choice. All other ingredients were from the same source as previous batches. Maybe I don't need so much cetyl alcohol.


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## redhead1226

The only Babassu I have ever bought that was hard and not liquid form was from New Directions Aromatics. All others were liquid unless I put them in the refrigerator. Im in Florida so I have no idea how it behaved in a cooler area.


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## homesteaders

Mine have always been solid at room temperature (generally about 60 to 75 degrees F). I melt it by setting the jug in a sink with hot tap water. The babassu from Soaper's Choice stayed liquid for about a day and a half, but the babassu from Amazon became too solid to pour within a few hours.


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## DeeAnna

The babassu I have is from Majestic Mountain Sage. It is a brittle solid at room temp in all but the warmest of Iowa days, but melts easily at body temp. It's been a few years since I bought it, so I can't say if their latest babassu is the same.


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## cmzaha

Obsidian said:


> Thanks to generous members, I've been testing out a couple different types of defunk. One is the basic 50/50 bab/mag and the other has more stuff, including some of that deodorant additive from BB.
> Honestly, I don't notice much difference between the two besides that one the extra ingredients is a bit more silky, glides just a little easier. Both work the same as far as keeping the stink away.
> 
> I do have a weird thing happen though and I have to wonder if it me or if others have experienced this too. I don't start to smell for a couple of days and even then, its pretty mild but at the end of day one, there is a really bad musty smell. After some investigating, I discovered it is my clothing.
> For some reason, my shirts develop a funk in the pit area, bad enough I sometimes have to change my shirt in the middle of the day.
> Its weird and I'd like to get to the bottom of the cause. All my deodorant it unscented. Going to melt down on jar and add some scent, see if that might help things.


I have also had that happen a few times and I do scent mine. Please let me know if you figure it out


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## Dahila

NDA in Canada, but in US they have the same thing,  It is hard but dissolve very fast on skin,  I would say it is whiter than Coconut oi.  I do scent it with essential oils ,  works like a charm


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## Arimara

redhead1226 said:


> The only Babassu I have ever bought that was hard and not liquid form was from New Directions Aromatics. All others were liquid unless I put them in the refrigerator. Im in Florida so I have no idea how it behaved in a cooler area.


 I bought babassu oil from Camden Grey. It becomes liquid in the summer months since I'm in th northeastern part of the USA. right about now, if it gets consistently cooler, it should solidify in a few weeks.


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## SoaperForLife

cmzaha said:


> I have also had that happen a few times and I do scent mine. Please let me know if you figure it out


I think that body odor is affected by diet... https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/24/body-odor_n_3786361.html


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## Mara

SoaperForLife said:


> I think that body odor is affected by diet... https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/24/body-odor_n_3786361.html



I've made the experience that during a time when I was on a zero carbohydrate diet I also had zero body odor. Not just the body, but the feces didn't smell either. I was very surprised as I had expected the opposite to happen. My guess is that bacteria feed on the sugars that we eat.


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## SoaperForLife

Mara said:


> I've made the experience that during a time when I was on a zero carbohydrate diet I also had zero body odor. Not just the body, but the feces didn't smell either. I was very surprised as I had expected the opposite to happen. My guess is that bacteria feed on the sugars that we eat.


You may be right.... I am still trying to figure it all out.  I get to the point that I am odor free even though I sweat with my homemade deo and then I eat something and find that I start smelling again.  Oddly enough my test is my riding lesson - if I'm odor free afterwards I've done something right....


----------



## SheLion

Obsidian said:


> I do have a weird thing happen though and I have to wonder if it me or if others have experienced this too. I don't start to smell for a couple of days and even then, its pretty mild but at the end of day one, there is a really bad musty smell. After some investigating, I discovered it is my clothing.
> For some reason, my shirts develop a funk in the pit area, bad enough I sometimes have to change my shirt in the middle of the day.
> Its weird and I'd like to get to the bottom of the cause. All my deodorant it unscented. Going to melt down on jar and add some scent, see if that might help things.



I have found that if I'm wearing a shirt with synthetic fibers in it, the shirt will have a funk. As far as I can figure, it's the chemistry of my sweat reacting with the fibers because when I take the shirt off, my pits don't smell funky. And I don't get the funky smell with cotton. So I've started paying closer attention when shopping. Sadly for me, a very high percentage of clothing is made with polyester, which is the worst offender for me.


----------



## earlene

That's why I hate polyester.  Odors stick to it through repeated washings, too.  Under arm odors are the hardest to remove from polyester in my experience, so I avoid whenever possible.


----------



## SoaperForLife

earlene said:


> That's why I hate polyester. Odors stick to it through repeated washings, too. Under arm odors are the hardest to remove from polyester in my experience, so I avoid whenever possible.


Not sure that I even own anything polyester... I am a stay-at-home whatever so my clothes come from the second hand store here in town.  T-shirts, hoodies, long sleeved shirts with stains or holes are mostly what I wear these days.


----------



## earlene

I don't know about the mid-Atlantic area, *SoaperForLife*, but here in my little MidWestern town our local Goodwill has lots of polyester and polyester blends.  That's probably because there are so many polyesters in the clothes sold around here locally.  It also used to be quite common in clothes sold in the 70's and 80's when I was a young woman, so I wore it a lot when I was young, but it persists in the clothing industry.  It may be more common in some areas than others, of course.  I would guess in areas where the trend is toward natural fibers, it would be less common in stores.

All you have to do is read the labels (if they are still intact) in your clothing to see if polyester is one of the fibers listed.  It is quite often blended in clothes that are 'wrinkle-resistent' and 'active wear' clothing.  https://www.whowhatwear.com/what-is-polyester


----------



## Zany_in_CO

For what it's worth, I'd like to mention that when I ran out of my normal "Pit Defunker", due to the info in this thread, I tried using Milk of Magnesia straight in a Roll On bottle and it works. I had a couple of nights of hard labor recently where I ended up sweating like never before and stayed odor free -- clothes didn't get funky either.


----------



## Spice

TeresaT said:


> I decided to start this thread because it's really rude to hijack someone else's thread.  I'm sorry Marie.  However, I must also thank you.  You got a great thread started and that in turn got my wheels spinning.  So, if you're just joining in, please read mzimm's thread here:  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=59818
> 
> I have discovered that babassu oil works much better than coconut oil at deodorizing the pits.   On Monday, (7/25) I concocted a "pit detox" (something I had never heard of until I read the thread) made with bentonite clay and water.  Since I added too much water, I had to add some kaolin clay to thicken it up a bit.  I put that on my armpits for about 30 minutes.  It was too long.  I didn't mean to leave it that long, but I was doing laundry and watching Netflix.  Oh, well.  I rinsed it off with a warm wash cloth, dried well and put a little powder on there to make sure any residual moisture was absorbed.
> 
> I haven't used deodorant since then.  I just shower, dry off really well, and put a little powder on to make sure any residual moisture gets absorbed.  This has actually worked well for me.  And I am shocked because (if you read mzimm's thread) I stink.  Seriously.  Bad.    Thursday night when I went to bed (I think it was Thursday, they're all a blur) I didn't have the a/c set to 72, it was on 80 and I was sweating all night.  I woke up stinking.  After my shower, I was fine.  And I was good all day: however, I did notice that my shirt smelled bad.  The armpits of the t-shirt I was wearing absorbed the sweat (and therefore the funk); but when I smelled my skin, there was no funky odor.  Just the shirt was funky.  So, basically, the detox worked.  As long as the sweat (and therefore the bacteria) are not on my body, I don't stink (badly).
> 
> I don't want to use an antiperspirant again. I don't mind sweating.  It's the stinking that I mind.  Besides, my antiperspirant wasn't doing that great of a job in the first place, ya dig?  The antiperspirant is made to plug up the stink glands (uh, sweat glands) under your arms so you don't sweat and feed the bacteria.   It's the bacteria that make you stink, their waste products, actually (I think).  So, kill the bacteria and you kill the stink.  Which leads me to today's experiment.
> 
> I was hoping to stink, so I left the a/c on 86 last night and sweated my butt off.  I also had Max in bed with me as well as Chase and Ivy.  Max usually sleeps in his crate, so Friday & Saturday nights he gets a break and I get no sleep.  I have 67 pounds of Max on one side of me and 52 pounds of Ivy on the other side of me.  Sweat city.  PERFECT!!   Boy did my pits make my eyes water today.  I didn't even have to lift my arms high to catch a whiff.   Can you say, "Gag a maggot."
> 
> I grabbed a sliver of babassu oil out of the fridge and melted it in my palm.  That was taking too long so I just rubbed it onto my left armpit.  The oil absorbed quickly and the stench disappeared within a minute or two of application of the oil.  Impressive!!
> 
> I grabbed the jar of (melted) coconut oil and dipped a clean (very important!) finger into it and rubbed it onto my right armpit, trying not to gag.  The oil did not absorb well and my finger stunk.  (TMI?)  The thing is, 5 minutes later, I grabbed the jar and dipped four (clean!!) fingers into it and tried again.  This time I rubbed the oil into my skin for a longer amount of time.  The oil did not absorb well into the skin and 15 minutes later I got the babassu oil and rubbed it onto my right armpit.
> 
> My left armpit is not greasy or oily and does not have a strong odor.  There is a slight odor, but it is not detectable unless I really stick my nose in there.  I would definitely go out in public and not be bothered at all.  I'm confident not one could smell me but me.  (And I've got to stick my face in my pit.)
> 
> My right armpit still stinks.  It's not quite as bad as it was before; but it is bad enough that I would not be comfortable going out in public. It's probably not so bad that people would confuse me for being a hippie or homeless, but I'd be self-conscience about it.    Mind you, this is even though I used significantly more coconut oil on it compared to the babassu on the left AND actually used babassu as well.  I think the babassu was not able to penetrate through the coconut oil to get to the bacteria causing the odor.  I'm going to go wipe all of the oil off of my armpit with a dry paper towel and try the babassu again.
> 
> So, although it is in no way scientific, I believe babassu oil is definitely the best oil to use for a deodorant.  It certainly proved this morning it has antimicrobial activity.  It absorbs well into my skin and is not at all greasy.  I don't even think that I'll need to add arrowroot or cornstarch to this if I made it into a stick deodorant.
> 
> What I am going to do is use plain babassu oil as a deodorant on one armpit for the coming week and just powder the other (as I've done since Tuesday morning).  I'll see how the babassu compares to the powder.   The powder I've been using is the Dollar General version of Shower to Shower deodorant powder.  I've been using that for years after my shower, especially in the summer when it's so humid.


DELETE


----------



## earlene

Spice said:


> Is there something wrong with just using a crystal rock? I know that Babassu oil can be costly, the work it takes to mix, and the time...I would spent more time on something else. When my 18 year old boy (he has so much hair on his body, his brothers called him carpet) took my face towel and wiped his pits, then I came around washed my face and dried with that towel....I almost through up. I was mad...but he was getting a complex because he didn't know what to do, so I say to him, "use my salt rock". It worked, I actually thought it wouldn't because he has some very strong gene, sweats ALOT, and is a huge man now.



Well, much as I wish *TeresaT* would come back to us on a regular basis, she hasn't been around in about 6 weeks or so and a bit less frequently for a the past few months.  Life must hold a lot for her lately, I guess.  Anyway, I don't know when she will see your question.


----------



## Spice

earlene said:


> Well, much as I wish *TeresaT* would come back to us on a regular basis, she hasn't been around in about 6 weeks or so and a bit less frequently for a the past few months.  Life must hold a lot for her lately, I guess.  Anyway, I don't know when she will see your question.


I saw the date of this post and deleted. Have a real bad cold and just not myself. I haven't been around either. Anyway, that salt rock does miracles.


----------



## IrishLass

Spice said:


> I saw the date of this post and deleted. Have a real bad cold and just not myself. I haven't been around either. Anyway, that salt rock does miracles.



No worries, Spice- this seems to be one of those long, on-going threads, such as the shaving thread or the Soaping 101 thread. 

I used to use the crystal rock deodorant stones back in the late '90's, and while on the one hand they worked great for me, they ended up irritating my pits rather badly after a few months of steady use that I had to stop using them.

Thankfully, that has not been the case for me with the babassu/magnesium hydroxide after almost 2 years of steady use. I don't do the extra 'doctoring-up' to turn it into a stick deodorant, so mine is made and ready to go in less than a minute. I just mix the two ingredients in a jar and call it done. It's a creamy consistency that can be applied with the fingers. At first it kinda creeped me out having to rub it into my pits with my fingers, but it didn't take me very long to get used to it.


IrishLass


----------



## shunt2011

Spice said:


> I saw the date of this post and deleted. Have a real bad cold and just not myself. I haven't been around either. Anyway, that salt rock does miracles.



You are fine on this as it’s an ongoing process for most here.


----------



## SaltedFig

Carpet! 




@Spice That is seriously funny!

I'd only thought of Potassium alum (Potassium aluminium sulfate) from the art use side of things, I didn't realise it was the same stuff in crystal deoderant.

I tried the crystal deoderant a long time ago and decided then that I didn't like it, but other folk do swear by it (and it's very popular in countries around here).

Apparently it's also used as a post-shaving/post-hair removal treatment for it's soothing and antibacterial qualities (something I found out from the Wiki page, so thanks for talking about the crystals ... I've learned something new today )


----------



## SoaperForLife

As I was looking through one of my herbal tea books I happened upon a "Better Body Odor Tea" that some of you may be interested in trying out...  it is 2 parts peppermint leaf, 2 parts spearmint leaf, 1 part alfalfa leaf, 1 part nettle leaf.  There is a notation stating that "herbs rich in chlorophyll help purify the system from within".  I have not tried this specific recipe but I do often drink another herbal tea that contains two of the four aforementioned herbs and it's quite possible that there is a correlation between when I get on a "tea bender" and the subsequent lack of underarm odor I experience.


----------



## DeeAnna

Thought I'd give a cross-link to a recent related thread. There's been some good discussion there about where to find the "hard" babassu for the babassu / mag hydroxide deo. https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/hard-babassu-oil-for-deodorant.72028/#post-728149


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## TeresaT

earlene said:


> Well, much as I wish *TeresaT* would come back to us on a regular basis, she hasn't been around in about 6 weeks or so and a bit less frequently for a the past few months.  Life must hold a lot for her lately, I guess.  Anyway, I don't know when she will see your question.



SURPRISE!!  I just popped in for a second.  Don’t really know what prompted me to, actually.  Yes, Earlene, life is definitely getting in the way lately.  As far as the question of the salt crystal is concerned, I did use one of those for a long time and loved it.  The only problem I has was stinging after shaving (salt on an open wound kinda hurts).  Then suddenly it seemed to stop working.  I don’t know if my hormones had something to do with it or I got a fake salt rock the second time I bought one, but there was definitely a reduction in the deodorant ability of the product.  One of the tings I liked about the product was the longevity of it.  A standard deodorant tube sized stone lasted me almost a year of daily use.  When I bought it, I thought it was kind of expensive (at nearly $8 about 20 years ago).  But a friend of mine swore it was worth it.  It really was.  Unfortunately, the next time I purchased a crystal deodorant, I didn’t see that same brand and bout a different one.  It didn’t feel the same or work as well.  The cool thing about the salt crystal is you can also use it on your feet if you have sweaty, stinky feet.  (Personally, I would use a different one for my feet than for my pits; but, how many foot deodorants are on the market?  Does anyone use their Secret on their feet and their pits?)

Totally different subject: you remember I said my air conditioner went out in 2013?  Guess whose heater went out in 2018?  Yup, this girl.   I finally got a new heat pump!!  This summer I will actually have central air, humidity will be abolished, and my soap won’t sweat.  I can actually start making soap again.  I haven’t made any in over a year because it’s been so discouraging having sweaty soap all over the place.  Whatever soap I have in the house will be strictly personal use.  Anything I make starting now will be for gifting/selling.  It’ll be nice to get the mad scientist going again.


----------



## amd

TeresaT said:


> (Personally, I would use a different one for my feet than for my pits; but, how many foot deodorants are on the market?  Does anyone use their Secret on their feet and their pits?)



Well, I didn't use my stick deoderant on my feet, but when I used to wear a lot of dress shoes in the summer I would by the aerosol deoderant to spray my feet with. Worked a million times better than foot powder (and smelled nicer too).


----------



## Saipan

Wow, I went away for a bit, and this thread exploded. Is there a recipe in here somewhere?  Can anyone repost it for me or give a page number?


----------



## IrishLass

Well, there are a good handful of different recipes throughout this thread!  For simplicity sake, here's mine: 60% magnesium hydroxide powder mixed with 40% babassu oil. I normally make it unscented, but sometimes I add a few drops of FO or EO if the mood strikes me. My favorite FO to add is dragon's blood. 

It makes a deodorant with a creamy consistency that I apply with my fingertips. I should mention that my babassu oil is not the hydrogenated kind, so it's liquid at room temp. If you use a harder babassu that some vendors sell, the consistency of your deodorant will not turn out so creamy.


IrishLass


----------



## Saipan

Is Magnesium hydroxide powder the same as Magnesium sterate?


----------



## IrishLass

No. They are different from each other.


IrishLass


----------



## SoaperForLife

Odor Neutralizing Deodorant Recipe
Author: Wholesale Supplies Plus
Friday, July 13, 2018

This baking soda-free deodorant contains magnesium stearate which is a naturally occurring fatty acid originating from stearic acid. It helps this deodorant glide easily onto underarms and leaves a non-greasy feel to the product. It is also great for helping absorb odor!

_Wholesale Supplies Plus is not responsible for the products you create from our supplies.
You alone are responsible for product and recipe testing to ensure compatibility and safety._

*Project Level: *Easy
*Estimated Time: *1/2 Hour
*Yield: *4 Tubes

Ingredients

  •  1.44 oz. Coconut Oil - 76º Melt 
  •  1.16 oz. Magnesium Stearate 
  •  0.60 oz. Arrowroot Powder 
  •  0.40 oz. Beeswax - Ultra Refined & Bleached 
  •  0.24 oz. Shea Butter - Ultra Refined 
  •  0.14 oz. Smooth & Creamy Lotion Bar Additive 
  •  0.02 oz. Agave Nectar Odor Neutralizing FO 426 
  •  4 Piece(s) 1 oz White Lotion Bar Tube & Top - Dial Up 

Equipment

  •  Spatula 
  •  Metal Melting Pot 
  •  Wire Whisk 
  •  Scale - Digital Display (Professional) 
  •  Hot Plate or Double Boiler 

*INCI Ingredient Label:* Coconut Oil, Magnesium Stearate, Arrowroot Powder, Beeswax, Shea Butter, Polyglycerol-3 Beeswax, Fragrance. 

Recipe Directions

NOTE: If you are making these products for sale, good manufacturing practices recommend you wear a hairnet, gloves and a mask. We also recommend a clean apron and workspace.

To metal pan, add beeswax, lotion bar additive, shea butter and coconut oil. 
Place over desired heat source (hot plate or stove for double boiler) and heat on low until all ingredients have completely melted. 
Add magnesium stearate and arrowroot powder. Blend well with wire whisk.
Add fragrance and blend in.
Quickly pour mixture into lotion bar tubes. Product thickens quickly so you need to work fast. Let completely harden before adding tops.
Label product accordingly.
To Use: Apply to underarms daily.


----------



## Zany_in_CO

Saipan said:


> Wow, I went away for a bit, and this thread exploded. Is there a recipe in here somewhere?  Can anyone repost it for me or give a page number?


Check out Post #567


----------



## SaltedFig

SoaperForLife said:


> ...
> Author: Wholesale Supplies Plus
> Friday, July 13, 2018
> 
> ... magnesium stearate which is a naturally occurring fatty acid originating from stearic acid. ...



This information is not correct (see the last line below for the correct text).

Magnesium stearate is not a fatty acid, it is the the salt of a metal and a fatty acid.
The metallic salt of a fatty acid is otherwise known as a soap.
While Stearic acid occurs naturally in various animal and vegetable fats, Magnesium stearate is a type of manufactured soap.

The description looks like it could be an erroneously modified version of the text found on EWG's cosmetic database:
https://www.ewg.org/skindeep/ingredient/703708/MAGNESIUM_STEARATE/


> About _MAGNESIUM STEARATE_: _Magnesium stearate_ is a magnesium salt of stearic acid, a naturally occurring fatty acid


----------



## DeeAnna

Magnesium stearate is an insoluble, non-lathering, non-cleaning soap. Insoluble soaps like mag stearate, lithium stearate, etc. are often used for thickeners and/or lubricants. 

If a soap recipe has a fatty acid profile that contains stearic acid, then some of the soap scum that forms when you use this soap in hard water will be magnesium stearate.

A supplier's website should never be relied on as a source of technical information unless the info can be corroborated by other reputable sources.


----------



## SaltedFig

When reading pharmaceutical technical papers (Magnesium stearate is used in pills), the acidic naming form to describe the structure. I suspect this comes from Magnesium Stearate being a mixture, rather than a pure product, as defined by the United States Pharmacopeia (USP) standards:


> "A compound of magnesium with a mixture of solid organic acids, and consists chiefly of variable proportions of magnesium stearate and magnesium palminate. The fatty acids are derived from edible sources."



The industrial process for the manufacture of Mangesium stearate is different again, and the papers reflect this.

My favourite use for it is in candy coatings (it helps the super sticky hot sugar lollies not stick to the metal plates).

Food grade Magnesium stearate + SoaperForLife's linked recipe = "Skin Candy Deo"


----------



## SoaperForLife

SaltedFig said:


> Food grade Magnesium stearate + SoaperForLife's linked recipe = "Skin Candy Deo"


That might make a good marketing slogan <lol>.


----------



## earlene

In my effort to fine-tune my personal use babassu-MgOH deodorant recipe (thank you, *TheresaT*!), I have found one that works great and does not melt in the highest heat my car has achieved.  Now it is time to make more deodorant, as I am extremely close the very last of it.

My first successful recipe for no-melting-in-the-car was a bit too draggy with 9% beeswax (Aug. 5, 2017), so I came up with the following as an accidental mix (bad Murphy's law day).  It withstood the highest heat my car has ever reached and sustained for extended periods* (recorded temps referenced below), so that part is fabulous.  There was no draggy-ness on my skin with the two waxes.  Even though my plan was to use only one of them and test out the other on a separate occasion, I accidentally grabbed the wrong bag, then when I caught myself (in the midst of pouring), I grabbed the right one and added it to make up the difference in goal weight.  Hence the combo of both waxes.  The efficacy of the deodorant is very good as well, so I am considering simply repeating the exact same formula again.

July 10/2018:
49% babassu oil
42% MgOH
5% Rice Bran Wax
3%  Cera Bellina Wax
1% FO


Maybe I will still do some experimentation with only Cera Bellina, and tweak percentages as well, but since I will be traveling in the summer heat by car soon and then going to Hawaii as well, I think I'll stick with the above formula this summer as well.

My plan is to create a new batch this week-end.  Dragon's Blood will be my FO unless I decide to go Hawaiian exotic with another fragrance.


* notation about the high temps at which this formula remained solid inside my car for 48+ hours in summer of 2018:

Inside cabin temperatures in my car were recorded at 120°F & above for several days while driving across country from California to Wyoming (where I finally found someone able to fix my car at last!)  While stopped and car left locked (at rest areas, restaurants, etc), the car reached much higher temps, but I did not record those because it was too hot to be inside the car to read the thermometer (left by an auto repair fella in California who unsuccessfully tryied to figure out how to fix my AC - it was not at all a Freon issue - totally unrelated).  During a 48+hour period, my roll-up deodorant tube sat forgotten inside a bag on the front passenger side floor-board.  I had thought I had left it behind at a hotel or something, and couldn't find it for 2 days.  Normally I had been putting it into my cooler to prevent melting, but lo and behold when I did find it, I realized I no longer have to attempt to refrigerate this deo while on roadtrips anymore!  A valuable discovery, indeed!


EDIT:  correction to formula (trascription error on my part when I was using the calculator to figure out the actual percentages used)


----------



## cmzaha

earlene said:


> In my effort to fine-tune my personal use babassu-MgOH deodorant recipe (thank you, *TheresaT*!), I have found one that works great and does not melt in the highest heat my car has achieved.  Now it is time to make more deodorant, as I am extremely close the very last of it.
> 
> My first successful recipe for no-melting-in-the-car was a bit too draggy with 9% beeswax (Aug. 5, 2017), so I came up with the following as an accidental mix (bad Murphy's law day).  It withstood the highest heat my car has ever reached and sustained for extended periods* (recorded temps referenced below), so that part is fabulous.  There was no draggy-ness on my skin with the two waxes.  Even though my plan was to use only one of them and test out the other on a separate occasion, I accidentally grabbed the wrong bag, then when I caught myself (in the midst of pouring), I grabbed the right one and added it to make up the difference in goal weight.  Hence the combo of both waxes.  The efficacy of the deodorant is very good as well, so I am considering simply repeating the exact same formula again.
> 
> July 10/2018:
> 49% babassu oil
> 42% MgOH
> 0.63% Rice Bran Wax
> 0.34%  Cera Bellina Wax
> 1% FO
> 
> 
> Maybe I will still do some experimentation with only Cera Bellina, and tweak percentages as well, but since I will be traveling in the summer heat by car soon and then going to Hawaii as well, I think I'll stick with the above formula this summer as well.
> 
> My plan is to create a new batch this week-end.  Dragon's Blood will be my FO unless I decide to go Hawaiian exotic with another fragrance.
> 
> 
> * notation about the high temps at which this formula remained solid inside my car for 48+ hours in summer of 2018:
> 
> Inside cabin temperatures in my car were recorded at 120°F & above for several days while driving across country from California to Wyoming (where I finally found someone able to fix my car at last!)  While stopped and car left locked (at rest areas, restaurants, etc), the car reached much higher temps, but I did not record those because it was too hot to be inside the car to read the thermometer (left by an auto repair fella in California who unsuccessfully tryied to figure out how to fix my AC - it was not at all a Freon issue - totally unrelated).  During a 48+hour period, my roll-up deodorant tube sat forgotten inside a bag on the front passenger side floor-board.  I had thought I had left it behind at a hotel or something, and couldn't find it for 2 days.  Normally I had been putting it into my cooler to prevent melting, but lo and behold when I did find it, I realized I no longer have to attempt to refrigerate this deo while on roadtrips anymore!  A valuable discovery, indeed!


Thankyou Earlene, I have been working to tweak mine for summer and since I have some Cera Bellina wax I will give this a try. Your Mag/bab are about the same percentage as my formula.


----------



## DeeAnna

Did you use something else in your recipe, @earlene? Your percentages don't add up to 100% which is why I'm wondering. 

"...
49% babassu oil
42% MgOH
0.63% Rice Bran Wax
0.34% Cera Bellina Wax
1% FO
..."


----------



## earlene

DeeAnna said:


> Did you use something else in your recipe, @earlene? Your percentages don't add up to 100% which is why I'm wondering.
> 
> "...
> 49% babassu oil
> 42% MgOH
> 0.63% Rice Bran Wax
> 0.34% Cera Bellina Wax
> 1% FO
> ..."




No, I guess I just transcribed my numbers wrong when I was using my calculator!  THANK YOU for catching that!
I went back to my original notes and did the math again.  I must have hit a wrong button or two when doing the Rice Bran Wax calculation as well.

Here is the *correct* formula:

49% babassu oil
42% MgOH
5% Rice Bran Wax
3%  Cera Bellina Wax
1% FO


----------



## steffamarie

I made a variant on a pre-fab deo recipe today to try out - no babassu (that's on its way) but it has arrowroot starch, zinc ricinoleate, Mg(OH)2, and emulsifying wax along with some other oils. I smeared a little of the drippings on my pit to test for dryness (a huge problem with storebought "natural" deos - looking at you Tom's of Maine) and irritation and so far it's a win! We'll see once the tubes harden up. I'm cautiously optimistic!

ETA: When my babassu gets here I'm definitely trying out the mag/bab recipe to compare.


----------



## Gaisy59

steffamarie said:


> I made a variant on a pre-fab deo recipe today to try out - no babassu (that's on its way) but it has arrowroot starch, zinc ricinoleate, Mg(OH)2, and emulsifying wax along with some other oils. I smeared a little of the drippings on my pit to test for dryness (a huge problem with storebought "natural" deos - looking at you Tom's of Maine) and irritation and so far it's a win! We'll see once the tubes harden up. I'm cautiously optimistic!
> 
> ETA: When my babassu gets here I'm definitely trying out the mag/bab recipe to compare.



I wondering about clothing stains steffamarie


----------



## steffamarie

Gaisy59 said:


> I wondering about clothing stains steffamarie


Remains to be seen! It was recommended to me by someone who's used it for a long time and likes it.


----------



## Zany_in_CO

earlene said:


> 49% babassu oil
> 42% MgOH
> 5% Rice Bran Wax
> 3%  Cera Bellina Wax
> 1% FO
> ...I realized I no longer have to attempt to refrigerate this deo while on roadtrips anymore!  A valuable discovery, indeed!


Yes indeedy! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## madison

earlene said:


> No, I guess I just transcribed my numbers wrong when I was using my calculator!  THANK YOU for catching that!
> I went back to my original notes and did the math again.  I must have hit a wrong button or two when doing the Rice Bran Wax calculation as well.
> 
> Here is the *correct* formula:
> 
> 49% babassu oil
> 42% MgOH
> 5% Rice Bran Wax
> 3%  Cera Bellina Wax
> 1% FO


 Thank you earlene for sharing!
Is it ok to go over 30% MgOH? mine is 30% only but I like to try stronger %, my skin is sensitive though.


----------



## madison

steffamarie said:


> I made a variant on a pre-fab deo recipe today to try out - no babassu (that's on its way) but it has arrowroot starch,zinc ricinoleate, Mg(OH)2, and emulsifying wax along with some other oils. I smeared a little of the drippings on my pit to test for dryness (a huge problem with storebought "natural" deos - looking at you Tom's of Maine) and irritation and so far it's a win! We'll see once the tubes harden up. I'm cautiously optimistic!
> 
> ETA: When my babassu gets here I'm definitely trying out the mag/bab recipe to compare.



I wonder what are the other oils. Last winter, I bought a handmade deodorant from a farmers market when I was out of town,  it had so many oils with a lot of starch, and so many EO.  I used it for sometime then stopped, I couldn't take it any more, maybe my skin is just too sensitive to so much starches, especially the choice of oils in it were all greasy. It didn't leave any stain but didn't feel good to me. Later on when the weather got hot I gave it another shot, it didn't remove the smell. I know you are talking about zinc ricinoleate and Mg(OH)2, both are known to use in deodorants.


----------



## KristaY

I'm still on the hunt for babassu butter. I've found 3 that say butter but aren't as the melting point is similar to CO. I'm so frustrated! I tried adding 1% candelilla wax and I ended up with a rash so scrapped that batch.

So until I can actually find butter, I'm going to give DeeAnna's recipe a shot by adding BTMS or E wax NF and cetyl alcohol. I love, love, love the babassu and mag hydroxide combo but have to get the melt point up a bit, especially in summer.


----------



## earlene

Last night I made more babassu-MgOH deodorant using cera bellina wax and rice bran wax as previously mentioned.

Although I had wanted to do a fairly large batch this time, I didn't think I would have enough of all the ingredients, so I only did 4 roll-up containers.  For the first time, I gave one to my husband (today was his birthday).  

It occurred to me that he might have gone to work and said something like, 'my wife gave me deodorant for my birthday' although I did not ask if he said anything like that. It just struck me as a funny thought.

So I need to order more MgOH, more rice bran wax and more cera bellina wax.  My orders for August are really adding up!

In future I may try something with BTMS-50 instead of the rice bran wax and cera bellina wax, but since that combination has given me such perfect results for my situation (lots of time in a hot car), and it's summer again, I chose to stick with the formula that works best.

Because Dragon's Blood is my favorite of scents lately, I made 3 containers with DB (1 for my husband), but also made one with White Jasmine FO, because I really like it, too.

Formula I am using:

49% babassu oil
42% MgOH
5% Rice Bran Wax
3% Cera Bellina Wax
1% FO


----------



## nframe

I don't have any rice bran wax, which other wax would you suggest as a substitute?  Or could you use 8% cera bellina wax instead?


----------



## earlene

nframe said:


> I don't have any rice bran wax, which other wax would you suggest as a substitute?  Or could you use 8% cera bellina wax instead?




The only other wax I tried was beeswax and it was too draggy on my skin.  So that's all I can say from personal experience. The only reason I combined the two waxes the first time I made this specific recipe was purely accidental.  I had planned to use only one of them as a test, but accidentally picked up the wrong one and by the time my reflexes caught up with my brain, I had already poured in part of the 8% I was going to try with just the one.  Then instead of just going with that one, I switched & made up the difference with the other to get the 8%.  I never did try one vs the other because I was so pleased with my accidental formula that works so perfectly for me, that I just haven't bothered yet.  For me, the issue was that with only MgOH & babassu oil, the stick melted in my car when I travel.  It worked fine as a deodorant, but it needs to stay solid in my car, hence the added wax.

If you read back through the thread, you will see other additives suggested for creating a deo stick that is less prone to melting in higher temperatures.


----------



## SoaperForLife

Rice bran wax has a melt point of 186.8 degrees F.  so you could sub carnauba wax  which has a melt point of between 180 - 185 degrees F.


----------



## KristaY

I've never worked with rice bran wax, cera bellina or carnuba wax. Does it add "drag" to the deo like bees wax? I added candellila wax at 1% and it was so draggy I ended up with a horrible rash so could use nothing on my pits for several days. Luckily I didn't have to go out in the world and offend everyone I came within 10 ft of during that time since it's getting quite warm these days!


----------



## KristaY

I was just searching EO's and came across Thieves Blend. I totally forgot about it as it's been several years since I read the interesting history of it. I'm considering using it to scent my deo. My concern is the clove and cinnamon being possible irritants. The recipe I came across is:

40 drops clove
35 drops lemon
20 drops cinnamon
15 drops eucalyptus
10 drops rosemary

Any thoughts or ideas about using it in deo?

Here's a little history lesson for those who haven't read it:

https://myhealthessentials.ca/thieves-oil-history-blend-benefits/


----------



## cmzaha

@earlene I am not sure BTMS 50 is going to replace the Cera Bellina Wax and Rice Bran Wax because of melting points.
Btms50 has a melting point around 140F  Cera Bellina has a melting point of 145-163 F and Rice Bran Wax melt point is 167-185F. So I can see why it would not be very melty.

In case anyone is curious here is melting points of some waxes and butters, all are Fahrenheit temps. Sorry I just do not do Celsius 
Cocoa Butter 93-101 º
Kokum Butter 100-105 º
Illipe Butter 100-104º
BTMS 50   140º
BTMS 25    140º
Cera Bellina Wax  145-163º
Rice Bran Wax   167-185º
Oliwax    122-131º
Soft & Silky Emulsifier (WSP) 115-131 º
Candelilla Wax 155-162º
Carnauba Wax 180-187º


----------



## earlene

Thank you for the info on melting points.  I had not looked those up in over a year when I decided to find a replacement for beeswax.

*KristaY*, personally, I did not find it anywhere near as draggy as compared to how the beeswax was draggy.  But have you tried the plain MgOH with only babassu yet?  It works perfectly fine for deodorant without the added wax that I use.  I only used it because I needed something that wouldn't melt in my car on roadtrips.  Inside my house, the plain deo without any additives remained solid and worked just fine.  No additives means no dragginess at all.  If you need the a firmer stick, like I did, but want to keep the drag down, you could try a smaller percentage.  8% is working for me, but perhaps you could try something less, like maybe 3 or 4% and see how it works for you.


----------



## KristaY

earlene said:


> Thank you for the info on melting points.  I had not looked those up in over a year when I decided to find a replacement for beeswax.
> 
> *KristaY*, personally, I did not find it anywhere near as draggy as compared to how the beeswax was draggy.  But have you tried the plain MgOH with only babassu yet?  It works perfectly fine for deodorant without the added wax that I use.  I only used it because I needed something that wouldn't melt in my car on roadtrips.  Inside my house, the plain deo without any additives remained solid and worked just fine.  No additives means no dragginess at all.  If you need the a firmer stick, like I did, but want to keep the drag down, you could try a smaller percentage.  8% is working for me, but perhaps you could try something less, like maybe 3 or 4% and see how it works for you.



I've been using babassu *butter*/mg hydroxide for over a year, maybe 2 years and I love it. The only other thing I added was lavender and TT EO's. My problem is the babassu oil is WAY to liquid at RT for me and my sis in summer. It's more a paste that needs to be applied with fingers. My sis travels a lot too so needs it to hold up when she's driving around southern AZ this time of year. Since I'm having a hard time finding the higher melt point butter, I want to use up the oil I have on hand. I'm going to give E Wax and cetyl alcohol a try to see if it firms it up any.

Thanks earlene!


----------



## lenarenee

Has anyone tried using stearic acid?  (please don't make me re-read 30 page of this!)  I have 2 lbs of it to use up.


----------



## KristaY

lenarenee said:


> Has anyone tried using stearic acid?  (please don't make me re-read 30 page of this!)  I have 2 lbs of it to use up.



That's a very interesting idea, lenarenee. I don't recall anyone mentioning it in the last 30 pages, lol. Hopefully someone brighter than me chimes in on it.


----------



## BattleGnome

The last I used steric acid it didn’t blend well. Probably a method issue but the steric solidified faster than the oil and I’d end up with “steric spots”


----------



## lenarenee

BattleGnome said:


> The last I used steric acid it didn’t blend well. Probably a method issue but the steric solidified faster than the oil and I’d end up with “steric spots”



Were the spots problematic?  

What would help the two oils mix better - aka can two oils be emulsified together?


----------



## madison

KristaY said:


> I've never worked with rice bran wax, cera bellina or carnuba wax. Does it add "drag" to the deo like bees wax? I added candellila wax at 1% and it was so draggy I ended up with a horrible rash so could use nothing on my pits for several days. Luckily I didn't have to go out in the world and offend everyone I came within 10 ft of during that time since it's getting quite warm these days!



1 % is too much, I am assuming that you made a small batch. I would start with very small amount like 0.1 gram, then adjust it.


----------



## madison

lenarenee said:


> Has anyone tried using stearic acid?  (please don't make me re-read 30 page of this!)  I have 2 lbs of it to use up.



 I am still playing with it, it's very hot here. I am not up to satisfying results yet. I may give earlene's recipe a try.


----------



## BattleGnome

lenarenee said:


> Were the spots problematic?



My steric acid is in flake form the heating/cooling turned it into very small pastilles. It was like rubbing jojoba beads into my skin, except they didn’t dissolve all the way. If you choose to use steric I’d probably suggest a slow cooling/tempering method to keep things smooth.


----------



## SoaperForLife

Hey Earlene,  
Curious as to which babassu oil you are using?  The "hard butter" version that New Directions sells or the one that is the consistency of 76 degree coconut or ?


earlene said:


> Formula I am using:
> 
> 49% babassu oil
> 42% MgOH
> 5% Rice Bran Wax
> 3% Cera Bellina Wax
> 1% FO


----------



## earlene

SoaperForLife said:


> Hey Earlene,
> Curious as to which babassu oil you are using?  The "hard butter" version that New Directions sells or the one that is the consistency of 76 degree coconut or ?



The only babassu I have any experience with comes from Soapers Choice.  It is harder than 76° CO, which melts inside my house this time of year.  Babassu remains solid throughout the summer here.  I'd say it looks like lard or tallow in the bottle, but even lard starts to melt sooner.  It melts in a hot water bath easily enough, but can take some time if the bottle is full, but even at 80°or more inside my house it remains solid.  Not until I touch it to my skin, does it start to melt.  So I would say it's melting point is close to my skin surface temperature, which is incidentally 92° currently.


----------



## Rembetissa

Earlene, thank you for posting how you make a stick that doesn't melt. I made it a few days ago, and so far have been really happy with it.


----------



## KristaY

Yesterday I made a new recipe (to me) that I adapted from previous posts on this thread (I'm sorry, I don't recall who posted). I used 12% BTMS 50 and 12% cetyl alcohol. The rest is babassu (low melt point) and mag hydroxide. So far so good but I'm getting a bit of "pilling" at the end of the day, meaning when I wash it off I feel bits of it on my pits. Maybe I need to drop the BTMS and cetyl to 10% or 11%? I'm really happy with the increased melt point though. I put it out on the back patio for about 6 hours and no change in consistency. It was only 90F and not in direct sun but this is a huge improvement over the deo without BTMS and cetyl.


----------



## HowieRoll

KristaY said:


> Yesterday I made a new recipe (to me) that I adapted from previous posts on this thread (I'm sorry, I don't recall who posted). I used 12% BTMS 50 and 12% cetyl alcohol. The rest is babassu (low melt point) and mag hydroxide. So far so good but I'm getting a bit of "pilling" at the end of the day, meaning when I wash it off I feel bits of it on my pits. Maybe I need to drop the BTMS and cetyl to 10% or 11%? I'm really happy with the increased melt point though. I put it out on the back patio for about 6 hours and no change in consistency. It was only 90F and not in direct sun but this is a huge improvement over the deo without BTMS and cetyl.



My current iteration of this deodorant is:
49%  Babassu oil
33%  Magnesium Hydroxide
8.5%  E-Wax (Mountain Rose Herbs)
9%  Cetyl Alcohol
0.5%  Fragrance

As you can see, there is no BTMS-50 in the recipe (ewax, instead) and I do not get any of the pilling you mention - do you think it could be the BTMS-50?  Of course, I'm also using a lower percentage of "hardeners," so maybe that could play a part, and I would think your idea of testing out a lower percentage of the BTMS-50/Cetyl is on the right track.


----------



## KristaY

Thanks HowieRoll! I chose to use BTMS only because it has a higher melt point than E Wax. For my next trials I'll make a batch with lower BTMS & cetyl, and also a batch replacing the BTMS with E Wax. Hopefully I'll be able to pin down the culprit. I appreciate your input HowieRoll!


----------



## madison

HowieRoll said:


> My current iteration of this deodorant is:
> 49%  Babassu oil
> 33%  Magnesium Hydroxide
> 8.5%  E-Wax (Mountain Rose Herbs)
> 9%  Cetyl Alcohol
> 0.5%  Fragrance
> 
> As you can see, there is no BTMS-50 in the recipe (ewax, instead) and I do not get any of the pilling you mention - do you think it could be the BTMS-50?  Of course, I'm also using a lower percentage of "hardeners," so maybe that could play a part, and I would think your idea of testing out a lower percentage of the BTMS-50/Cetyl is on the right track.



I used e wax and didn't like it. I hope you like it and update us about it.


----------



## HowieRoll

madison said:


> I used e wax and didn't like it. I hope you like it and update us about it.



I've been experimenting with these ingredients since Feb. 2018, and using this particular recipe since January 2019 and loving it.  The experiments where I used 3% each ewax and cetyl alcohol was too little (deodorant wasn't firm enough for my liking and resulted in applying way too much), and 10% each was too much (very draggy).  The current ratios are just about right for me, although I really need to set it outside to see how it does in the heat wave we've been having, or, better yet, take it for a ride in the car and leave it there for an afternoon.  I can see it now, where the husband asks where I'm going and I say, oh, just taking the deodorant for a ride...


----------



## Dahila

I use in mine E-wax as well and cetyl more or less like you do Howie,  works pretty well


----------



## madison

HowieRoll said:


> I've been experimenting with these ingredients since Feb. 2018, and using this particular recipe since January 2019 and loving it.  The experiments where I used 3% each ewax and cetyl alcohol was too little (deodorant wasn't firm enough for my liking and resulted in applying way too much), and 10% each was too much (very draggy).  The current ratios are just about right for me, although I really need to set it outside to see how it does in the heat wave we've been having, or, better yet, take it for a ride in the car and leave it there for an afternoon.  I can see it now, where the husband asks where I'm going and I say, oh, just taking the deodorant for a ride...



I am happy it worked for you.


----------



## LaPrairieLady

I have tried several recipes for 5 years and now I have found the right one for me. I am a person who stinks underarm even though I am 65 years old. Regarding the Babassu oil, yes it is very good for the deodorant. I use organic coconut oil, virgin, it is much less oily and penetrates quickly into the skin (not refined coconut oil 76 for soap). By adding E-Wax the greasy effect goes away completely.
Try this simple recipe.

1 tablespoon Organic coconut oil or Babassu oil
½ tablespoon E-Wax ant melt with oil

Dry ingredients

1/2 tablespoon of Baking Soda (If you are allergic avoid and use arrowroot or cornstarch)
1 tablespoon + 3/4 teaspoon of Arrow Root or Cornstarch
1/4 teaspoon Diatomaceous Earth
Mix well dry ingredients and add slowly to the oil.

Add 3 drops of Tea Tree essential oil
2 drops of Palmarosa essential oil
2 drops of lavender essential oil

Mix well and put in the jar or stick. 

I avoid beeswax or other wax because it makes me sweat. With this recipe, my armpits stay dry. with the E-Wax the oil is no greasy and I rinse my fingers under the water and no greasy effect remains.

I do not use any fragrance. My deodorant does not smell very good but the smell disappears in an hour and it smells nothing through clothes and especially does not stain.


----------



## Gaisy59

LaPrairieLady said:


> I have tried several recipes for 5 years and now I have found the right one for me. I am a person who stinks underarm even though I am 65 years old. Regarding the Babassu oil, yes it is very good for the deodorant. I use organic coconut oil, virgin, it is much less oily and penetrates quickly into the skin (not refined coconut oil 76 for soap). By adding E-Wax the greasy effect goes away completely.
> Try this simple recipe.
> 
> 1 tablespoon Organic coconut oil or Babassu oil
> ½ tablespoon E-Wax ant melt with oil
> 
> Dry ingredients
> 
> 1/2 tablespoon of Baking Soda (If you are allergic avoid and use arrowroot or cornstarch)
> 1 tablespoon + 3/4 teaspoon of Arrow Root or Cornstarch
> 1/4 teaspoon Diatomaceous Earth
> Mix well dry ingredients and add slowly to the oil.
> 
> Add 3 drops of Tea Tree essential oil
> 2 drops of Palmarosa essential oil
> 2 drops of lavender essential oil
> 
> Mix well and put in the jar or stick.
> 
> I avoid beeswax or other wax because it makes me sweat. With this recipe, my armpits stay dry. with the E-Wax the oil is no greasy and I rinse my fingers under the water and no greasy effect remains.
> 
> I do not use any fragrance. My deodorant does not smell very good but the smell disappears in an hour and it smells nothing through clothes and especially does not stain.



But you are suggesting baking soda which tends to burn a lot of underarms and i have tried the diatomaceous earth and did not like the scratchy consistency.


----------



## MGM

I've made dozens of recipes over the years (all coconut oil based) and have dozens of discarded half-full containers. It always comes down to how I do NOT like the smell of BO + CO, and whatever EOs I add are then tainted forever in my mind ;-)
Also, I buy most of my clothes second-hand and body odor can tend to stay in the clothes....they smell fine most of the time, but when I move around a little bit, it's not even my BO, but someone's from years ago that's now leaking out (I guess I have a high ick tolerance). 
Thirdly though, this is an important missing piece for most people I bet:  
*Material Girl – If you stink, it’s probably your clothes' fault.*


----------



## Gaisy59

MGM said:


> I've made dozens of recipes over the years (all coconut oil based) and have dozens of discarded half-full containers. It always comes down to how I do NOT like the smell of BO + CO, and whatever EOs I add are then tainted forever in my mind ;-)
> Also, I buy most of my clothes second-hand and body odor can tend to stay in the clothes....they smell fine most of the time, but when I move around a little bit, it's not even my BO, but someone's from years ago that's now leaking out (I guess I have a high ick tolerance).
> Thirdly though, this is an important missing piece for most people I bet:
> *Material Girl – If you stink, it’s probably your clothes' fault.*



YES! This is very true. I have had to toss tops that i have cleaned and when i dressed in them have found a definite stink. Out they go and it is sad because some were my favorite tops.


----------



## LaPrairieLady

Gaisy59 said:


> But you are suggesting baking soda which tends to burn a lot of underarms and i have tried the diatomaceous earth and did not like the scratchy consistency.



If you read well, I wrote "if you are allergic to baking soda replace it with arrowroot or cornstarch. The old recipes suggested 1 part of coconut oil, 1 part of baking soda and 1 part of arrowroot and cornstarch. There was too much baking soda, my armpits were irritated, so I cut in half and I had no problem. The recipe I wrote is last that I tried and I'm completely satisfied. It may be because of organic coconut oil and a little 1/4 teaspoon of Diatomaceous Earth but my armpits stay dry even when I'm sweating.


----------



## Dahila

what about stains on clothes from CO,  you can not wash it off.  I can not use baking soda due the immediate rash, does not matter how little I put there. Laprerielady we do not use tsp here,  weight or percentage,


----------



## LaPrairieLady

Dahila said:


> what about stains on clothes from CO,  you can not wash it off.  I can not use baking soda due the immediate rash, does not matter how little I put there. Laprerielady we do not use tsp here,  weight or percentage,



When using E-Wax it emulsifies the oil and I apply the deodorant with my fingers when I rinse the oil turns into lotion so not greasy effect. I do not use beeswax or other wax.

About weight or percentage, you are right, but here we are talking about oil and starch, not necessary. I make lotions and creams, soap, lipstick, balm etc. and all my ingredients are weighed. I know cosmetology. I do not sell soap and bath & body product, it's a hobby for me. 

If my post is not appropriate here, tell me I will delete it.


----------



## SoaperForLife

Gaisy59 said:


> YES! This is very true. I have had to toss tops that i have cleaned and when i dressed in them have found a definite stink. Out they go and it is sad because some were my favorite tops.


I wonder if you used a paste of baking soda and vinegar on the underarm area of the clothing, whether the smell would be gone then.


----------



## Gaisy59

SoaperForLife said:


> I wonder if you used a paste of baking soda and vinegar on the underarm area of the clothing, whether the smell would be gone then.



Hmmm going to try that. What have I got to lose as the top cannot be worn anymore as is.


----------



## Nanette

What is tsp???


----------



## CathiT

tsp is teaspoon.
LaPrarieLady, I appreciate your recipe. I screenshot it, I hope you don’t mind.


----------



## cmzaha

Nanette said:


> What is tsp???


Was this meant to be sarcastic? Or do you really not know what a tsp is...  Dahila was simply pointing out we usually use percentage or weight. But I do use measurements at times when making soap.  For cosmetic I always use weight.


----------



## Dahila

LaPrairieLady said:


> When using E-Wax it emulsifies the oil and I apply the deodorant with my fingers when I rinse the oil turns into lotion so not greasy effect. I do not use beeswax or other wax.
> 
> About weight or percentage, you are right, but here we are talking about oil and starch, not necessary. I make lotions and creams, soap, lipstick, balm etc. and all my ingredients are weighed. I know cosmetology. I do not sell soap and bath & body product, it's a hobby for me.
> 
> If my post is not appropriate here, tell me I will delete it.


Do you think I do not use emulsifier?  Co leaves awful stains so does cocoa butter,  The easiest to wash off is babassu oil.


----------



## Dahila

tsp teaspoon tbsp = table spoon.  Thanks Cmzaha 
like always I use metric,  I thought you use metric to while making lotions.  Am I right?


----------



## Zany_in_CO

I have no problem with volume measure (tsp/tbls) with this type of product. It's easy enough to weigh as I go and make notes for the next time. That being said, I agree with you, Dahila, I also prefer metric weights for making lotions and such.


----------



## CathiT

I think Nanette was just thrown off for a moment, as was I. Having been in a cleaning kick this weekend my first thought was “TSP in a soap/deodorant recipe?!” TSP (Trisodium Phosphate) is what I use to clean walls, sometimes. I quickly realized that my mind was not on measurements, as it should be. I don’t think she was being sarcastic.


----------



## cmzaha

Sorry I was probably in one of my moods. But I would always recognize tsp as teaspoon and TSP and Trisodium Phospate. Difference is in the lower and upper case usage.
Dahila, I do use grams when making cosmetics. When I make soap I use oz and sometimes use oz and grams.... Fortunately, I have never mixed up the two when I use both measurements. Not saying it could not happen


----------



## LaPrairieLady

CathiT said:


> tsp is teaspoon.
> LaPrarieLady, I appreciate your recipe. I screenshot it, I hope you don’t mind.



Not at all, I do the same thing for other people's recipes. I took a screenshot of the Madison recipe, in my next order I will buy Magnesium Hydroxide because I only have Magnesium Chloride.


----------



## Hennyfer

Well this is a long thread and I haven't read it all but I want to add something. I have always been pretty sweaty and quickly start to smell stinky if I don't use something on my pits. I got a tip from a fb group and decided to try it- it is very simple and has been working really well for me since I started to use it. It seems to reduce wetness somewhat and really eliminates the odor- it is simply lemon juice! Squeeze a little onto my hand and rub on and that's it!! It actually lasts up to several days (I shower about every 3rd day) I work outside and am active and this is my new go-to.  If you're looking for something easy and natural give it a try!


----------



## LaPrairieLady

Hennyfer said:


> Well this is a long thread and I haven't read it all but I want to add something. I have always been pretty sweaty and quickly start to smell stinky if I don't use something on my pits. I got a tip from a fb group and decided to try it- it is very simple and has been working really well for me since I started to use it. It seems to reduce wetness somewhat and really eliminates the odor- it is simply lemon juice! Squeeze a little onto my hand and rub on and that's it!! It actually lasts up to several days (I shower about every 3rd day) I work outside and am active and this is my new go-to.  If you're looking for something easy and natural give it a try!



It is not the first time I hear this. I even read that a woman used apple cider vinegar which is acidic like lemon.


----------



## earlene

Some people may have good results with vinegar, but I did not find that to be the case.  My brother also reported that he spent a long drive with a friend of his who was convinced the vinegar she used prevented smelly b.o. but she was wrong.

I had not read about lemon juice.  That is interesting.  Perhaps one day when I run out of my wonderful babassu-magnesium hydroxide deo, I'll pull some Lemon juice out of the fridge and douse myself.  But I won't waste a lemon; they're just too precious a commodity around here.  Maybe back when I lived in California when lemon tree was so prolific my boys thought that playing ball with them was a good idea...


----------



## LaPrairieLady

Some people use Original Milk of Magnesia only,  ingredient: Magnesium hydroxide


----------



## earlene

LaPrairieLady said:


> Some people use Original Milk of Magnesia only,  ingredient: Magnesium hydroxide



Yes, a few of us here did and I think at least one still does.  Personally, I didn't like it though because it was too messy and I had to clean up drips and drops every time I used it.  Plus, it doesn't really travel as well as a stick deodorant (not by my standards, anyway, and I travel a lot.)  But I think a couple of people did use Liquid roll-on containers and didn't have the drips and drops problem I mentioned.  I suspect that would travel pretty well if not left in a hot car.  But the bottle of MOM I had in the trunk of my car did not fare well.  Too long in the heat of my car caused the powder to precipitate out of the liquid and sink to the bottom while the water floated on top.  No amount of shaking and mixing brought it back together again, so I finally just tossed it since it could no longer be used as a GI treatment either (due to the disassociated components.)


----------



## cerelife

Just wanted to share that WSP now carries Magnesium Hydroxide powder for _wayyyy _cheaper than what I had been paying for it on Amazon!!
https://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/products/magnesium-hydroxide-powder.aspx


----------



## earlene

Thank you, *cerelife*.  I am due to order more in August, so it's good to know of another potential source.


----------



## SoaperForLife

cerelife said:


> Just wanted to share that WSP now carries Magnesium Hydroxide powder for _wayyyy _cheaper than what I had been paying for it on Amazon!!


Yeah, they've been carrying it for a little while now.  I just ordered another 5 lbs. during their recent sale.


----------



## Gaisy59

cerelife said:


> Just wanted to share that WSP now carries Magnesium Hydroxide powder for _wayyyy _cheaper than what I had been paying for it on Amazon!!
> https://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/products/magnesium-hydroxide-powder.aspx



Just did some calculations and it is a 4.00 savings but for us canadians there will be international shipping costs so then not worth it. So sad...


----------



## Dahila

Gaisy59 said:


> Just did some calculations and it is a 4.00 savings but for us canadians there will be international shipping costs so then not worth it. So sad...


we have it very cheap at Windy point and remember order of 125 before all discounts is free shipping  https://www.windypointsoap.com/products/magnesium-hydroxide?_pos=1&_sid=4f8d124c2&_ss=r 1.5 kg = $14 plus tax,  I had ordered 3 kg some time ago


----------



## Gaisy59

Dahila said:


> we have it very cheap at Windy point and remember order of 125 before all discounts is free shipping  https://www.windypointsoap.com/products/magnesium-hydroxide?_pos=1&_sid=4f8d124c2&_ss=r 1.5 kg = $14 plus tax,  I had ordered 3 kg some time ago



I had some from Bulk Supplements a while ago too for about the same, but i need some other products too now so Windy Point would be a good idea for free shipping thanks Dahila.


----------



## Dahila

Gaisy59 said:


> I had some from Bulk Supplements a while ago too for about the same, but i need some other products too now so Windy Point would be a good idea for free shipping thanks Dahila.


When you need any info about our suppliers,  I know them all  I tried everyone of them


----------



## Gaisy59

Hello de-funk de pits people. I know we haven’t been on this site for a while but i just wanted to update you:

I have now tried earlene’s suggestion and added Cera Bellina wax to my babassu combo. She actually added Cera Bellina and rice bran wax but i wanted to try simplicity so only added 8% cera. The outside temp is 29C or 84F and i placed the deo in my car in full sun for about 4 hrs. the deo was softer but it did not melt!! I am very happy with this experiment, and i only used the Cera Bellina wax.

IrishLass i tried it with your 60/40 blend decreasing the babassu by 8% but the stick is hard like a rock.

Earlene’s recipe of 49% babassu and 42% magnesium is good but i am getting a little bit of “funk” coming through. I might stick with this blend or i might tweak it but i must thank you earlene for a wonderful idea!


----------



## Eepa

Has anyone on the Europe side of the pond found MgOH? I've tried several suppliers I know, crawled through Amazon and Ebay and I can't find anyone who would sell it to me to Finland. I thought I'd found one but that turned out to be mostly corn starch and only 37% was MgOH so not a good choice.


----------



## Gaisy59

Does Amazon not send to you? I get mine through Amazon...


----------



## Eepa

Nope, Bulksupplements doesn't ship to Finland. 

Amazon UK does have one supplier who would deliver it to me, but the postage would be about triple what the actual product costs so not really an option. 

Ebay does have some options now although postage is again pretty steep.

Actually, I just checked the label on Bulksupplements as well as I could as the pic was grainy but can someone conform the stuff is actually 45% MgOH and rest is something else, corn starch probably. If you are using that stuff and not pure MgOH then my mix might work too.


----------



## Gaisy59

This is a snap off my bag. It shows it is pure Mag Hydrox


----------



## Gaisy59

Unfortunately i tried to buy some and send it over to you but just to buy a bag for me would cost 50$ canadian and then the shipping was another 40$. When our border was open i would just drive down and pick it up and save on the shipping and of course now the canadian dollar sucks compared to US dollar.


----------



## Eepa

Okay, so you have different stuff than what I found from the same manufacturer. I did find some 100% pure MgOH but again, the postage is at least double that of the actual product. 

From what I found 40 dollar postage for a package that costs 50 dollars, is actually pretty good. But I'm not prepared to put quite that much money into deodorant, even if that would be life time supply or something. =P 

The really annoying thing in all this is that MgOH happens to be one of the few variations of hydroxides or variations of Mg salts that our environmental lab doesn't have. Almost everything else I could borrow from work but of course not that one...


----------



## Gaisy59

Well first of all that would not be a lifetime supply lol. Personally i find 40.00 shipping fee highway robbery. It really is frustrating trying to be kind to your body because it costs more than putting junk into it.


----------



## Dahila

Gaisy Windy Point carries it


----------



## Gaisy59

Dahila said:


> Gaisy Windy Point carries it



Really?! That’s fantastic!


----------



## Gaisy59

Ok i just went in Windy Point site...Dahila I dont know how you do it but yes it is there and it’s cheaper than getting it from bulk supplements. Thank you!


----------



## SeaSuds

Does anyone else find that their essential oil scent completely fades away using this recipe?


----------



## Gaisy59

SeaSuds said:


> Does anyone else find that their essential oil scent completely fades away using this recipe?



I use mine unscented. Maybe others will chime in.


----------



## Gaisy59

My issue is that my clothing underams get stiff. How can i get rid of the “coating” that happens?


----------



## DeeAnna

I don't add other waxes to my deodorant -- just babassu and mag hydroxide -- and have _less _residue on my clothing compared to when I was using commercial deos.

You're using cera bellina in addition to the babassu and mag hydroxide. Cera bellina, as a beeswax alternative, has a fairly high melt point. My guess is the cera bellina is the problem. I'd probably try washing in ultra hot water with plenty of detergent and see if that removes the residue. 

I think your goal of getting a high melt point deo is probably the reason why you're also seeing this unintended consequence.


----------



## Gaisy59

DeeAnna said:


> I don't add other waxes to my deodorant -- just babassu and mag hydroxide -- and have _less _residue on my clothing compared to when I was using commercial deos.
> 
> You're using cera bellina in addition to the babassu and mag hydroxide. Cera bellina, as a beeswax alternative, has a fairly high melt point. My guess is the cera bellina is the problem. I'd probably try washing in ultra hot water with plenty of detergent and see if that removes the residue.
> 
> I think your goal of getting a high melt point deo is probably the reason why you're also seeing this unintended consequence.



Actually this is before the cera. I was only using babassu and magnesium. I have just started using the wax because a) the double combo would be very difficult to apply and b) the double combo melted when my daughter drive from Winnipeg to Saskatoon an 8 hr drive in hot car.

I cannot was my tops in hot water as i do not want to ruin them with fading etc. I cannot understand why i seem to have this problem and others do not . Not fair!


----------



## Eepa

I'm using commercial variants of this and had the problem with one particular night shirt that is really tight. I apply deo in the morning when I'm still in my pyjamas. They are normally loose so the deo has time to absorb before I put on more fitted day clothes. And I think that is why I had build up in that particular shirt. I got rid off it by using bile soap on the stains before washing normally at 30 degrees C.


----------



## IrishLass

Like DeeAnna, I have much less residue (actually, none at all) on my clothing with the babassu/mag hydroxide deodorant. In case it matters, my method of application is rubbing the deo into my underarms like a lotion/cream.


IrishLass


----------



## Gaisy59

Eepa said:


> I'm using commercial variants of this and had the problem with one particular night shirt that is really tight. I apply deo in the morning when I'm still in my pyjamas. They are normally loose so the deo has time to absorb before I put on more fitted day clothes. And I think that is why I had build up in that particular shirt. I got rid off it by using bile soap on the stains before washing normally at 30 degrees C.



Ummm what is bile soap?


----------



## Eepa

It's a commercial soap that is meant for stain removal, very effective. Google gives me name bile soap or gall soap. One variant: Stain Removing Bile Soap - sodasan.com english


----------



## Gaisy59

IrishLass said:


> Like DeeAnna, I have much less residue (actually, none at all) on my clothing with the babassu/mag hydroxide deodorant. In case it matters, my method of application is rubbing the deo into my underarms like a lotion/cream.
> 
> 
> IrishLass



Hi IL yes i was following your process this whole time. I started using roll up containers because i found the deo was drying my fingers. Also, your deo stays creamy but mine was never a lotion i could apply very well. I dont think we are as hot here as your area.

Perhaps i should try applying the lotion and waiting before i dress.


----------



## Gaisy59

Eepa said:


> It's a commercial soap that is meant for stain removal, very effective. Google gives me name bile soap or gall soap. One variant: Stain Removing Bile Soap - sodasan.com english


Ok that would cost me 30.00 just for the soap and then shipping. Thanks Eepa i will see if something here will work the same way.


----------



## Eepa

We have it in most supermarkets in here, so you could check yours next time. I have no idea how common the stuff is else where but here it's readily available. Or seeing if you can get it with more reasonable price elsewhere. Here it costs around 10 e, I think. It's not cheap for a soap but not super expensive either.


----------



## Dahila

Gaisy59 said:


> Ok that would cost me 30.00 just for the soap and then shipping. Thanks Eepa i will see if something here will work the same way.


I make a laundry soap 100% Coconut oil and use it as stain remover , It works awesome


----------



## Gaisy59

Dahila said:


> I make a laundry soap 100% Coconut oil and use it as stain remover , It works awesome



I have never made a 100% coconut oil soap before.  With 38% water and 30% lye, 5% superfat and 0% water discount??


----------



## DeeAnna

What do you want the 100% coconut oil soap for -- a stain stick or a bath bar? If stain stick, then I'd use a 0% superfat so the soap performs as strongly as possible as a grease cutter. If a bath bar, I'd use more like 20% superfat. If you only superfat a 100% CO soap at 5%, it will be really harsh on the skin.

If you state the lye concentration (30%), that's all you need to say -- everyone can totally understand what you mean and re-create the recipe.

No point to also talking about 38% water and 0% water discount. My opinion -- stick to lye concentration and only lye concentration. Fugeddabout adding the 38% water and 0% water discount -- this added info is not necessary and often rather confusing.


----------



## Gaisy59

Thanks i am going to use Dahila’s suggestion and use it as a stain remover. I will use it on the underarms to see if that will take away the deodorant build-up .


----------



## DeeAnna

If you will be applying the stain stick to delicate or brightly colored fabrics, be sure to test first. Soap can bleach some colors and can be hard on delicate fabrics.


----------



## Gaisy59

DeeAnna said:


> If you will be applying the stain stick to delicate or brightly colored fabrics, be sure to test first. Soap can bleach some colors and can be hard on delicate fabrics.



ok super frustrating...what would you suggest instead as i do have lovely colors in my tops.


----------



## DeeAnna

What I said in post #669 -- I'd probably try washing in ultra hot water with plenty of detergent and see if that removes the residue.


----------



## Dahila

Gaisy59 said:


> I have never made a 100% coconut oil soap before.  With 38% water and 30% lye, 5% superfat and 0% water discount??


no laundry soap is 0 superfat you do not want to have left fat on your clothes,  and I do 33% lye solution.  38 is just too much it takes a long time to evaporate that water ,  I grate it when still warm leave some for laundry sticks and cure it for about 3 to 4 weeks


----------



## SeaSuds

I added 5% rice bran wax to be able to use this in a push up tube.  Will report back in a couple of weeks to let you know how the cardboard holds up if anyone is interested.


----------



## Gaisy59

I am very interested! I am using the cera wax in my tube and it seems to be working. Earlene used a combo of rice bran and cera, but it seems to work with just the cera bellina so far.


----------



## Amonik

Eepa said:


> Okay, so you have different stuff than what I found from the same manufacturer. I did find some 100% pure MgOH but again, the postage is at least double that of the actual product.
> 
> From what I found 40 dollar postage for a package that costs 50 dollars, is actually pretty good. But I'm not prepared to put quite that much money into deodorant, even if that would be life time supply or something. =P
> 
> The really annoying thing in all this is that MgOH happens to be one of the few variations of hydroxides or variations of Mg salts that our environmental lab doesn't have. Almost everything else I could borrow from work but of course not that one...


 
Any luck finding mag hydroxide yet? I’ve bought from Organic Makers here in Sweden. Their prices are not great, but service etc is very good. Maybe that would work for you?


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## cmzaha

I do not get any build up on my clothes using carnauba wax at 6.2% in my deo sticks. It took the carnauba to get them to hold up in the tubes. I find beeswax and Cera Bellina would become sticky over time, the same as it does in lotion bars.


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## Gaisy59

Amonik said:


> Any luck finding mag hydroxide yet? I’ve bought from Organic Makers here in Sweden. Their prices are not great, but service etc is very good. Maybe that would work for you?


Yes Dahila told me where to find some. Im glad you also found some. 

Oh sorry Amonik that was for eepa lol


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## boxcutter

Hi guys! I'm new here, I've played around with multiple deodorant recipes. Initially, I used baking soda, shea, beeswax, Arrowroot powder and EO's. This caused me to break out in a red rashes under the armptis. I've been playing around with Zinc Oxide and Zinc ricinoleate, plus butters oils and EO's, this has worked extremely well without irritation, the only downfall is the marking on clothing from the zinc ! I'm really interested in trying out Magnesium and Babassu oil with oil/butter/wax ratio for cardboard push up deodorant. Can anyone share the ratios for a working mixture that applies easily and can be used in a cardboard push up?


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## atiz

boxcutter said:


> Hi guys! I'm new here, I've played around with multiple deodorant recipes. Initially, I used baking soda, shea, beeswax, Arrowroot powder and EO's. This caused me to break out in a red rashes under the armptis. I've been playing around with Zinc Oxide and Zinc ricinoleate, plus butters oils and EO's, this has worked extremely well without irritation, the only downfall is the marking on clothing from the zinc ! I'm really interested in trying out Magnesium and Babassu oil with oil/butter/wax ratio for cardboard push up deodorant. Can anyone share the ratios for a working mixture that applies easily and can be used in a cardboard push up?


Hi, and welcome.
I can't help you too much because don't use the push-up tubes, but the 60/40 MgOH/babassu ratio has been working well for me. I would experiment with adding 5-6% of wax.
Hopefully someone who has more push-up tube experience will be able to help more.


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## boxcutter

atiz said:


> Hi, and welcome.
> I can't help you too much because don't use the push-up tubes, but the 60/40 MgOH/babassu ratio has been working well for me. I would experiment with adding 5-6% of wax.
> Hopefully someone who has more push-up tube experience will be able to help more.



Ahh, thanks for the reply! Are you using it in a "plastic stick container" or as a smear on paste?


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## atiz

boxcutter said:


> Ahh, thanks for the reply! Are you using it in a "plastic stick container" or as a smear on paste?


It's a cream consistency for me, a bit depending on the temp. (It's summer right now and if I have the AC set for 75F, it's a thinner cream; if I have it set for 73F, it's a very thick cream. I think babassu oil has its melting temp right around room temperature.) 
So I keep it in a plastic container, one that you would keep a hand cream in, and apply it as a cream. I had originally thought it would be quite icky, but it's really not.


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## Gaisy59

Hi welcome. I too use the 60/40 split with cera bellina wax but i use the plastic tubes. And i will be trying a 5-6% wax. I had 8% and want to use less and see if it works as well.


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## DeeAnna

Way earlier in this thread, there was some discussion about various types of babassu being sold. 

Babassu from some suppliers is a brittle solid at room temperature, and babassu from other suppliers is softer. I can't tell you why there's a difference. It doesn't seem to be a difference that even the suppliers are aware of. Or maybe they are but aren't talking about it?

The babassu - mag hydroxide deodorant I make is always a stiff waxy paste. It works well in a twist-up deodorant container, even when the house is in the 80s F.


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## Gaisy59

Ok i will put my 2 cents worth in...the babassu butter is rock solid and the babassu oil is softer. I have both and that is how i found the difference. You definitely want the oil.


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## boxcutter

Gaisy59 said:


> Hi welcome. I too use the 60/40 split with cera bellina wax but i use the plastic tubes. And i will be trying a 5-6% wax. I had 8% and want to use less and see if it works as well.



Thanks! Why did you want to use less than 8% was it a personal choice thing, playing around or was it too hard? I'm gonna whip up several batchs with the different ratios and see what is best for me and my partner. Wondering if the ratios are better, the same or less effective between the different sexes.



DeeAnna said:


> Way earlier in this thread, there was some discussion about various types of babassu being sold.
> 
> Babassu from some suppliers is a brittle solid at room temperature, and babassu from other suppliers is softer. I can't tell you why there's a difference. It doesn't seem to be a difference that even the suppliers are aware of. Or maybe they are but aren't talking about it?
> 
> The babassu - mag hydroxide deodorant I make is always a stiff waxy paste. It works well in a twist-up deodorant container, even when the house is in the 80s F.



I've read the whole thread (Took awhile) 

I have ordered Babassu Oil, my supplier generally has good product so will be interesting to see what consistency it is!

Waxy paste is fine, the zinc deodorant I've had success making tends to paint clothing with white streaks if you are not careful when applying, it washes out though but can be annoying!

We have Celcius here in our part of the world, I believe 80F is around 26.6C, definitely would not hold up to our summers, sometimes 30C +. Will probably need to up the wax ratio!




Gaisy59 said:


> Ok i will put my 2 cents worth in...the babassu butter is rock solid and the babassu oil is softer. I have both and that is how I
> found the difference. You definitely want the oil.



I have ordered the oil so will be interesting to see whether it's hard or soft!

I look forward to playing around !


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## atiz

Oh yes, I remember that discussion about babassu. Interesting indeed. Mine in 80F (yes, around 27C; with AC!)would be clear liquid -- so my deo is a liquidy cream. My babassu solidifies around 73-75F; it is not super hard even then, you can still squeeze out of the container (it came in an upright bottle with a spout), but becomes opaque and vaseline-like consistency. 
Anyway, it's interesting. I don't think the consistency makes a whole lot of difference in effectiveness; I like mine whether it's on the solid side or on the liquidy side, as long as you don't mind the application method.
Good luck with experimenting!


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## Gaisy59

boxcutter said:


> Thanks! Why did you want to use less than 8% was it a personal choice thing, playing around or was it too hard? I'm gonna whip up several batchs with the different ratios and see what is best for me and my partner. Wondering if the ratios are better, the same or less effective between the different sexes.
> 
> 
> 
> I've read the whole thread (Took awhile)
> 
> I have ordered Babassu Oil, my supplier generally has good product so will be interesting to see what consistency it is!
> 
> Waxy paste is fine, the zinc deodorant I've had success making tends to paint clothing with white streaks if you are not careful when applying, it washes out though but can be annoying!
> 
> We have Celcius here in our part of the world, I believe 80F is around 26.6C, definitely would not hold up to our summers, sometimes 30C +. Will probably need to up the wax ratio!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have ordered the oil so will be interesting to see whether it's hard or soft!
> 
> I look forward to playing around !



I want to try less than 8% to see if it holds up when travelling.  I used 8% and stuck it in my closed car in the sun at 32 C.  It did not melt.  Now I want to see if it holds up using less wax as I think (could be my imagination) that it decreases the efficiency of the deo with more wax.  However, and this may be my imagination as well, but I find I get less white "coloring" of my clothes with the wax. So I want to see if that theory holds true with a bit less wax.

Now up here in Canada even the babassu oil is darn hard, especially in winter.  If I could get a paste for everyday use I would be very happy.  But the addition of the wax softens it enough that I don't have to nuke it whenever I need to use it lol.

OMG! Kuddos to you for reading the whole blog.  I have been with it from the start and even I have a hard time reviewing


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## boxcutter

atiz said:


> Oh yes, I remember that discussion about babassu. Interesting indeed. Mine in 80F (yes, around 27C; with AC!)would be clear liquid -- so my deo is a liquidy cream. My babassu solidifies around 73-75F; it is not super hard even then, you can still squeeze out of the container (it came in an upright bottle with a spout), but becomes opaque and vaseline-like consistency.
> Anyway, it's interesting. I don't think the consistency makes a whole lot of difference in effectiveness; I like mine whether it's on the solid side or on the liquidy side, as long as you don't mind the application method.
> Good luck with experimenting!



Nice, great to hear you have something that works for you! I struggle to use a cream type or liquid deodorant, might be just be a mental block but I can't seem to get passed it, unfortunately. I need at least 30 - 35 to hold up to our summer.



Gaisy59 said:


> I want to try less than 8% to see if it holds up when travelling.  I used 8% and stuck it in my closed car in the sun at 32 C.  It did not melt.  Now I want to see if it holds up using less wax as I think (could be my imagination) that it decreases the efficiency of the deo with more wax.  However, and this may be my imagination as well, but I find I get less white "coloring" of my clothes with the wax. So I want to see if that theory holds true with a bit less wax.
> 
> Now up here in Canada even the babassu oil is darn hard, especially in winter.  If I could get a paste for everyday use I would be very happy.  But the addition of the wax softens it enough that I don't have to nuke it whenever I need to use it lol.
> 
> OMG! Kuddos to you for reading the whole blog.  I have been with it from the start and even I have a hard time reviewing



Do you find you can smell body scent with the 8% wax content or just guessing before trying it? I'm keen to have a play around.

The colouring is a pain, I was thinking it didn't really occur with this recipe ? The zinc can mark big white marks if your not careful 

Have you tried using a butter-like shea or mango to soften it?


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## Gaisy59

Ya i can get a bit of smell coming through which i just reapply, but without the wax i could go all day without reapplying.

oh i know about zinc stains as my reef safe suntan lotion has zinc, but i found magnesium does the same thing. Not to that degree though. It is not a deal breaker because the deo works great.

Babassu is the key to not getting oil staining your clothes. It is the stains from coconut oil that moved this group away from that medium. Not sure if anyone tried shae, mango, cocoa butter but i sure am not going to reread that thread


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## Kiwi2:)

I love this deo - (thanks to the guys here for the inspiration!!) - tried a few tweaks to the original babassu/magnesium hydroxide mix and have added a combination of cetyl alcohol / emulsifying wax NF / castor wax (fully hydrogenated castor oil) to give me the texture/glide/skin feel that I was wanting. My deo is in a cardboard push up tube and it's pretty solid but not solid enough to be a stand alone bar.  I did begin with jojoba esters as hardeners and then moved to castor wax (I had a couple of kilos and the jojoba esters are pretty expensive).  I'm happy with the castor wax - it's non-comodogenic and doesn't seem to interfere with the deodourising function.  Haven't had any staining of shirts but I had a tiny amount of waxy build up on my black camisole after several weeks that washed out pretty easily given an overnight soak.  Best of luck with your formula!


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## Sapo

Hello.

Any insights or experiences on the differences between Magnesium hydroxide, oxide, chloride, citrate, sulfate for deodorant purposes? Are they interchangable?

Thanks


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## Sapo

Hello,

Note: food grade pure mag. hydroxide is used, I ate/zap tested some, no sensation, zap or taste at all.

I am attaching pictures of magnesium hydroxide+babassu deodorant in an aluminum container. It appears to react with and dissolve the aluminum over time (2-3 days after 'bottling'), creating black goo on the threads, and probably on the inside walls as well. For testing purposes, I've also done an experiment using aluminum foil in a water + mag. hydroxide 'solution'/suspension. Same results - the alu is blackened/dissolved (8 hours after insertion of foil into water/mgoh). For reference purposes, the other 2 glasses are 1) alu foil in water and 2) alu foil in water+baking soda - those did not blacken the aluminum.

The results are the same if aluminum is put into sodium/potassium hydroxides, but a drastically faster reaction.

alu containers are quite inappropriate it seems for this formulation.

Any similar experiences? Or...opposite ones, with alu being appropriate?

Pic 1: black goo is appearing on the threads of the container.






pic3: blackness on lid






Pic3: alu foil in (top to bottom) mgoh, water, water and baking soda


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## Eepa

I'm not entirely surprised by these results. Aluminium can't stand alkaline conditions (that's the reason why you shouldn't wash aluminium pans in a dishwasher) and MgOH is alkaline substance as it has the OH ion there. Didn't realise it was that alkaline but like I said, not entirely surprised. The reason is there. 

What I've been more surprised is that aluminium containers don't stand standard creams either. They're supposed to be neutral (never tested the pH myself but that's what I've always read about creams) so that shouldn't do it. I'm thinking about the water in the cream but have no idea why water would be a problem.


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