# Oils Found In Supermarket



## rjlnokom (May 27, 2018)

Hi there!

I'm new to soap making and I was wondering can I use the coconut oil or palm oil I see in the supermarket aisles? Most of them are in the cooking oil section. 

Thanks!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (May 28, 2018)

You usually can. You just need to make sure that it isn't a blend of oils. So "vegetable oil" is going to be a mix of different oils which makes it harder for working out a recipe


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## rjlnokom (May 28, 2018)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> You usually can. You just need to make sure that it isn't a blend of oils. So "vegetable oil" is going to be a mix of different oils which makes it harder for working out a recipe



Thanks! I found picture of the oils I have mentioned:












Can I use these? Thanks!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (May 28, 2018)

Aye, that looks to be fine to use for your coconut oil [emoji106]


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## rjlnokom (May 28, 2018)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Aye, that looks to be fine to use for your coconut oil [emoji106]



Thanks! How about the second one? That is for the palm oil...


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (May 28, 2018)

Palm olien is also used by a lot of soapers. Do a quick search in Google "palm oil olien site:soapmaking forum.com" as some people have done a bit of work on that before


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## rjlnokom (May 28, 2018)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Palm olien is also used by a lot of soapers. Do a quick search in Google "palm oil olien site:soapmaking forum.com" as some people have done a bit of work on that before



Thanks! Much appreciated!


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## SunRiseArts (May 28, 2018)

I would say yes you can use them.  Some of them have preservatives which is fine!


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## rjlnokom (May 28, 2018)

SunRiseArts said:


> I would say yes you can use them.  Some of them have preservatives which is fine!



Thanks! I just attended my first soap making class last week and I am now curing my first batch of soaps.

The reason behind my questions was I was looking for cheaper alternatives to the oils that I can use. Since both coconut and palm oil is quite cheap here in the supermarkets and grocers.

I also am looking for those oils which have no discernible smell which lead to also ask the question. These oils (I think, based on experience and on their labels) have no smell but again as someone new in soapmaking, I figured out to ask first.


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## Pjclark1 (May 28, 2018)

The coconut oil should be fine. 
But not the palm olien.
Palm kernel oil is great for making soap, high in stearin.
I use these two oils all the time soap.


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## DeeAnna (May 28, 2018)

@rjlnokom -- What you've got is not exactly palm oil --  it's palm olein, sometimes spelled palmolein. It will be slightly higher in oleic acid and slightly lower in palmitic acid than actual palm oil. It is fine to use in soap, just realize it is a little different than regular palm.

@Pjclark1 -- Palm KERNEL (PKO) is high in lauric and myristic acids, similar to coconut and babassu. Palm is high in stearic and oleic acids, similar to tallow and lard. PKO and palm are different products with different benefits for soap, but both are fine in soap if you know the strengths of each.


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## rjlnokom (May 28, 2018)

Pjclark1 said:


> The coconut oil should be fine.
> But not the palm olien.
> Palm kernel oil is great for making soap, high in stearin.
> I use these two oils all the time soap.



Thanks! I'll have this noted.



DeeAnna said:


> @rjlnokom -- What you've got is not exactly palm oil --  it's palm olein, sometimes spelled palmolein. It will be slightly higher in oleic acid and slightly lower in palmitic acid than actual palm oil. It is fine to use in soap, just realize it is a little different than regular palm.
> 
> @Pjclark1 -- Palm KERNEL (PKO) is high in lauric and myristic acids, similar to coconut and babassu. Palm is high in stearic and oleic acids, similar to tallow and lard. PKO and palm are different products with different benefits for soap, but both are fine in soap if you know the strengths of each.



Thank you! This is very enlightening!

I guess I have to go back to the grocery and take a few more pictures and read more on the ingredients list.


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## ItsForrest (May 28, 2018)

There are definitely some good options for soaping oils in the supermarkets. Do a bit of searching and reading here on the forums and you will find good info on using shortening for a low cost oil. Read the ingredients like you are doing now and make sure you know which type to pick in whichever soap calculator you are using. 

I started out with the more expensive base oils like coconut oil and olive oil. After making soap for about a year I am becoming more cost conscious and experimenting with the cheaper base oils like shortening, lard, sunflower oil, soy oil, etc. 
The more expensive oils may have better label appeal but I think you can make soap that's just as nice to use using more common oils. Plus, if you use cheaper oils for the main oils in the recipe, it's easier to afford luxury oils and butters that you use in smaller percentages.


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## SunRiseArts (May 28, 2018)

Oh good catch.  I thought it was palm oil!  Yikes! 

In which country are you?  Do you have Crisco where you live?  I have made soap with just Crisco, and coconiut, and makes for a lovely inexpensive bar!


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## rjlnokom (May 28, 2018)

ItsForrest said:


> There are definitely some good options for soaping oils in the supermarkets. Do a bit of searching and reading here on the forums and you will find good info on using shortening for a low cost oil. Read the ingredients like you are doing now and make sure you know which type to pick in whichever soap calculator you are using.
> 
> I started out with the more expensive base oils like coconut oil and olive oil. After making soap for about a year I am becoming more cost conscious and experimenting with the cheaper base oils like shortening, lard, sunflower oil, soy oil, etc.
> The more expensive oils may have better label appeal but I think you can make soap that's just as nice to use using more common oils. Plus, if you use cheaper oils for the main oils in the recipe, it's easier to afford luxury oils and butters that you use in smaller percentages.




Thanks! That is exactly what I have been thinking!  Much appreciated!



SunRiseArts said:


> Oh good catch.  I thought it was palm oil!  Yikes!
> 
> In which country are you?  Do you have Crisco where you live?  I have made soap with just Crisco, and coconiut, and makes for a lovely inexpensive bar!



Hi there! I'm from the Philippines. I think I seen Crisco on the specialty stores that sell mostly items from the U.S.


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## KristaY (May 28, 2018)

Hi rjlnokom! Certain oils are harder to come by or more costly in different countries so it would probably be easiest to let us know what oils are less expensive and readily available to you. From there we can suggest what might be best to use. There are many oils that have similar fatty acid profiles so picking the right combination from what you can easily buy might help you out. Good luck!


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## rjlnokom (May 28, 2018)

KristaY said:


> Hi rjlnokom! Certain oils are harder to come by or more costly in different countries so it would probably be easiest to let us know what oils are less expensive and readily available to you. From there we can suggest what might be best to use. There are many oils that have similar fatty acid profiles so picking the right combination from what you can easily buy might help you out. Good luck!



Hi there! Sure that is a great idea! I have to go to the grocers if I have time and I would probably take pictures especially with the ingredients list. Hopefully by weekend I can post it here.


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## KristaY (May 28, 2018)

Pictures of the ingredient lists would be perfect!


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## abby (May 29, 2018)

Omg. I have been 


DeeAnna said:


> @rjlnokom -- What you've got is not exactly palm oil --  it's palm olein, sometimes spelled palmolein. It will be slightly higher in oleic acid and slightly lower in palmitic acid than actual palm oil. It is fine to use in soap, just realize it is a little different than regular palm.
> 
> @Pjclark1 -- Palm KERNEL (PKO) is high in lauric and myristic acids, similar to coconut and babassu. Palm is high in stearic and oleic acids, similar to tallow and lard. PKO and palm are different products with different benefits for soap, but both are fine in soap if you know the strengths of each.


Omg i have been inputting wrong oil on my calculator. Im using olein, thought thats the palm oil.


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## DeeAnna (May 29, 2018)

abby said:


> Omg i have been inputting wrong oil on my calculator. Im using olein, thought thats the palm oil.



The saponification value for palm oil, palm olein, and palm stearin are nearly the same. So your lye weight will not change much if any in your recipes if you start using palm rather than palm olein to do the lye calculation.

What will be different between the three fats is the proportions of the fatty acids. If you pay attention to the fatty acids or the Soapcalc "numbers" (creamy, bubbly, hardness, etc.), you'll want to use the correct fat. Palm olein will give your soap more oleic acid. Palm stearin will give your soap more stearic acid. Palm is somewhere in the middle.


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## Pjclark1 (May 29, 2018)

rjlnokom said:


> Thanks! I'll have this noted.
> I guess I have to go back to the grocery and take a few more pictures and read more on the ingredients list.



I use this from my local baking supplies shop $3/Kg (50% coconut, 50% Palm Kernel), makes great soap (20% superfat), no other oil needed.
Finished soap bars on the left.








rjlnokom said:


> Hi there! I'm from the Philippines. I think I seen Crisco on the specialty stores that sell mostly items from the U.S.


I'm not far from you, the supermarkets in Asia are the wrong place for you to look for the base oils, you need a catering/baking  supplies store.
They will have a large selection of coconut oil, palm kernel oil. Crisco is really expensive out here as it's a foreign import.
There are loads of locally produced fat spreads for baking.
(Samson Gold $2.50/Kg Palm Stearin + Palm Kernel + Coconut, is about the same as Crisco)
Palm oil may be listed as Palm oil from pericarp on the ingredients list.


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## rjlnokom (May 29, 2018)

Pjclark1 said:


> I'm not far from you, the supermarkets in Asia are the wrong place for you to look for the base oils, you need a catering/baking  supplies store.
> They will have a large selection of coconut oil, palm kernel oil. Crisco is really expensive out here as it's a foreign import.
> There are loads of locally produced fat spreads for baking.
> (Samson Gold $2.50/Kg Palm Stearin + Palm Kernel + Coconut, is about the same as Crisco)
> Palm oil may be listed as Palm oil from pericarp on the ingredients list.



Hi there! Thank you for your input! I'll take a look also from baking suppliers/stores here.


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## zolveria (May 29, 2018)

rjlnokom said:


> Hi there!
> Where r u located try resurany supply houses for doughnut fry.. it is made from cottonseed and palm. Also look at Lowe's home improvement for rice bran oil 24 buck for 3 gallons. Local hardware stores can get lye sometime at bulk 50# or so.
> I'm new to soap making and I was wondering can I use the coconut oil or palm oil I see in the supermarket aisles? Most of them are in the cooking oil section.
> 
> Thanks!


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## rjlnokom (Jun 3, 2018)

I there everyone! I have completed my supermarket/grocer canvassing and here are some of the oils I have found:

I found Crisco which is an option based on what @SunRiseArts  said:





There is a lot of Grapeseed Oil I have found. How much percentage can I used in my CP soap making?





Rice Bran oil is also plentiful.




Safflower Oil is also available.





And on a side note I found Vitamin E Acetate in aisle also. Can I add this as well to my soap?





Also available which I found are the following: Macadamia Oil, Pumpkin Oil, Avocado Oil. 

Lastly, is Sweet Almond oil different from Almond Oil? I found it also but I was confused.

Hope to hear from you all!


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## earlene (Jun 14, 2018)

I like Rice Bran Oil in soap and have used it as high as 100%, although usually not that high.  Grape seed oil has a short shelf life (about 6 months), so many soapers don't even use it, but in small percentages (say 5% to 10%) while it is still fresh and using a minimal superfat setting in your lye calculator, I have not had any problems with it.

My eyes are pretty old, so I'm having some trouble reading the Safflower Oil label.  I can't tell if it's High Oleic or regular (lower oleic).  Either is fine for use in soap, but the HO oils are less likely to contribute to DOS.  If it is the regular, then I would suggest using it at low percentages in the formula.

I like Almond Oil in soap, but it's hard to find in grocers in the US lately, so I don't use it as much as before.  But even so, I would still keep it's percentage on the low end, say 15% or less.  Sweet Almond Oil is the same as 'Almond Oil' as far as I know. 

Avocado Oil is a very nice oil in soap, but rather expensive in the states, so I would rather use it for cooking.  I have used pumpkin oil in soap, but didn't like it.  It darkens the soap quite a bit, has an odor that I didn't much like in soap, and it's just too costly (here) anyway.  I have not used macadamia nut oil in soap, and it is really high priced here.

I wouldn't bother with the vitamin E acetate in soap.  I know some people do add vit. E to soap to help prevent DOS, but according to Dr. Kevin Dunn (author of Scientific Soapmaking), it's not really effective at preventing DOS.  (reference:  http://cavemanchemistry.com/DreadedOrangeSpot-Dunn.pdf)

The Crisco is fine, as mentioned before, but make sure if you use it, you use the setting for the type you purchase.  There are two Crisco settings in some lye calculators, the kind with animal fat (Crisco, old) and the kind without animal fat (Crisco, new w/palm).  See soapee for the settings I mentioned.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jun 14, 2018)

Looks like HO safflower to me.  Assuming the total fat under the glare is 14g, 11/14 is 78.5% oleic - more than olive oil.

I have completely replaced olive in my soaping with HO safflower.   You can make a pretty darn good all veg bar with 50% of that Crisco, 25% HO safflower, 20% coconut, and 5% castor.  Coconut isn't on your list, but I'm hoping it's so common that you didn't bother including it?  If you don't have castor, just move the 5% to the Crisco or safflower.


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## rjlnokom (Jun 19, 2018)

earlene said:


> I like Rice Bran Oil in soap and have used it as high as 100%, although usually not that high.  Grape seed oil has a short shelf life (about 6 months), so many soapers don't even use it, but in small percentages (say 5% to 10%) while it is still fresh and using a minimal superfat setting in your lye calculator, I have not had any problems with it.
> 
> My eyes are pretty old, so I'm having some trouble reading the Safflower Oil label.  I can't tell if it's High Oleic or regular (lower oleic).  Either is fine for use in soap, but the HO oils are less likely to contribute to DOS.  If it is the regular, then I would suggest using it at low percentages in the formula.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much! It is very enlightening! Based on the link that you added, the best preservative in soap making is BHT with Sodium Citrate.

Luckily, I might have a local supplier of both chemicals. Thank you so much!


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## rjlnokom (Jun 19, 2018)

BrewerGeorge said:


> Looks like HO safflower to me.  Assuming the total fat under the glare is 14g, 11/14 is 78.5% oleic - more than olive oil.
> 
> I have completely replaced olive in my soaping with HO safflower.   You can make a pretty darn good all veg bar with 50% of that Crisco, 25% HO safflower, 20% coconut, and 5% castor.  Coconut isn't on your list, but I'm hoping it's so common that you didn't bother including it?  If you don't have castor, just move the 5% to the Crisco or safflower.





BrewerGeorge said:


> Looks like HO safflower to me.  Assuming the total fat under the glare is 14g, 11/14 is 78.5% oleic - more than olive oil.
> 
> I have completely replaced olive in my soaping with HO safflower.   You can make a pretty darn good all veg bar with 50% of that Crisco, 25% HO safflower, 20% coconut, and 5% castor.  Coconut isn't on your list, but I'm hoping it's so common that you didn't bother including it?  If you don't have castor, just move the 5% to the Crisco or safflower.



Thank for your comment! I really appreciate all the help I can get. I'm slowly getting the equipment needed. Recently bought spatulas, digital weighing scale, immersion blender and easy pour containers. My next target are the raw ingredients.

You are correct that Coconut oil is readily available locally here. But I have a question regarding coconut oil. I have encountered "fractionated" Coconut Oil. Which is the best to use in soap making? Virgin coconut oil, fractionated coconut oil or just the plain coconut oil?

Thanks in advance!


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## dibbles (Jun 19, 2018)

rjlnokom said:


> You are correct that Coconut oil is readily available locally here. But I have a question regarding coconut oil. I have encountered "fractionated" Coconut Oil. Which is the best to use in soap making? Virgin coconut oil, fractionated coconut oil or just the plain coconut oil?





rjlnokom said:


> Thanks in advance!




Just regular coconut oil.


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## earlene (Jun 19, 2018)

In the lye calculators, there are 3 Coconut oils listed.  It is the 76 degree (melts at 76 degrees Fahrenheit = 24 Celsius) that is most commonly used in making bar soap.  You can use the others, but the Fx CO is more often used for cosmetic purposes.  Fx CO has some of the fatty acids removed, so if it is used in soap, the make-up of the bar would be quite different than if one uses regular CO.


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## Alfa_Lazcares (Jun 19, 2018)

Sorry to post this here but i also just found crisco in a supermarket near me, its 3 lb for 7 dollars aprox, should i buy it? Is the closest thing to palm oil i am gonna get here...


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## earlene (Jun 19, 2018)

Alfa_Lazcares said:


> Sorry to post this here but i also just found crisco in a supermarket near me, its 3 lb for 7 dollars aprox, should i buy it? Is the closest thing to palm oil i am gonna get here...



That seems a bit expensive to me, but for you it's an import, so perhaps not excessively expensive.

As I recall, Walmarts is in many large cities in Mexico, selling many of the same products as they sell here.  Do you have a Walmart near you?  And if so, does it carry the Great Value Brand (Walmart's Brand) of Shortening?  It's usually cheaper than Crisco AND it is listed in the lye calculator soapee.com.  (Walmart GV shortening, tallow/palm).  It would be more affordable, I would guess.


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## Alfa_Lazcares (Jun 20, 2018)

earlene said:


> That seems a bit expensive to me, but for you it's an import, so perhaps not excessively expensive.
> 
> As I recall, Walmarts is in many large cities in Mexico, selling many of the same products as they sell here.  Do you have a Walmart near you?  And if so, does it carry the Great Value Brand (Walmart's Brand) of Shortening?  It's usually cheaper than Crisco AND it is listed in the lye calculator soapee.com.  (Walmart GV shortening, tallow/palm).  It would be more affordable, I would guess.




Yep, lots of walmarts and yes, lots of Great Value stuff but not shortening, i had no idea they made shortening, i will look for that anyway but the only shortening that wallmart sells here (as far as i know, and i have visited several) is brand called INCA which is suuuuper cheap it is just sold as vegetable shortening (with soy as the first ingredient) but no proportions and its not on soapcalc. How much does 3lb of crisco cost? I am really only considering it for the palm it contains to make a veggie soap with palm.


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## earlene (Jun 20, 2018)

Locally where I live your 3-lb can would cost less than $5.50 dollars US.  Or a 6-lb can is under $11.00 US. (I don't keep up with the exchange rates very much, but I think that $5.50 US is about 113 pesos.)

As a source for a veggie palm containing soap,  I would say go for it.  The price is higher than here, but for you it is an import and I expect most imports are often higher priced. 

It seems that in VeraCruz, palm oil production went down (in favor of more traditional crops), but apparently it is up in Chiapas, according to reports I read.  But four years ago 1/3 of palm oil from Latin-America was exported to Mexico.  Apparently that is being used in food products and not being sold to soap makers, however. 

Too bad it is so hard to find as a soaping oil where you live.  Even so, I make mostly all veggie soaps myself, and I don't use palm in most of my recipes.  IMO, palm is not an absolute necessity in an all-veggie soap.  But you should definitely try it and compare it to a soap without palm and decide for yourself.


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## Alfa_Lazcares (Jun 20, 2018)

earlene said:


> Locally where I live your 3-lb can would cost less than $5.50 dollars US.  Or a 6-lb can is under $11.00 US. (I don't keep up with the exchange rates very much, but I think that $5.50 US is about 113 pesos.)
> 
> As a source for a veggie palm containing soap,  I would say go for it.  The price is higher than here, but for you it is an import and I expect most imports are often higher priced.
> 
> ...



Once again, thank you so much for your answer.
Since the difference ends up being just about two dollars it doesnt seem too expensive, i was expecting it to be cheaper there, but the price here doesnt seem THAT bad. Specially considering, as you said, that it is an import product and this is the first time i’ve seen it since i started browsing the oils aisle at supermarkets, as you do haha. As i said in my introduction i had no idea palm oil was a thing so trying to easily find it i knew was not gonna happen and this is the closest thing. The inca one doesnt list palm oil in it. 
I think I’ll give it a try, even if its just, well, to try. I have made a couple veggie soaps without palm too, but since a lot of people seem to love the palm on their soaps it got me curious.


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## rjlnokom (Jun 21, 2018)

I was now researching with preservative I can use for my soaps and body butter and @earlene gave me link about a study on how to prevent DOS.

It says that the combination of BHT and Sodium Citrate is the ideal to prevent DOS.

I also came across EDTA which prevents DOS.

My question now is which of the two is better? BHT + Sodium Citrate or EDTA?

And how much is the recommend usage between those 2 options?

Thanks in advance!


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## shunt2011 (Jun 21, 2018)

rjlnokom said:


> I was now researching with preservative I can use for my soaps and body butter and @earlene gave me link about a study on how to prevent DOS.
> 
> It says that the combination of BHT and Sodium Citrate is the ideal to prevent DOS.
> 
> ...



You have posted the same question in more than one section of the forum.  Please start a new thread instead of tacking on to someone else's thread.   Use the link below for information regarding preservation of soap vs chelators.   You don't need to preserve CP soap.

https://classicbells.com/soap/soapyStuff.html


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