# Successful & failures



## Desirae (Oct 14, 2016)

So my 1st real batch has hit its 4 week mark I used color and scent. And it came out perfect, my only problem stupid me can't find the recipe I used that I would love to make my permanent recipe, I got large bubbles smells great so now I have no clue what to do bc I can't find the recipe I do know I used gv shortening, CO, OO but can't remember what else so right now I'm hating myself big time. So I have a few questions of different topics so thought it best to post here in 1 single post and hope you all don't mind. 

1. What temp should I use for coop? My oven is both a convection and regular oven, what one should I use and what temp and for how many minutes/hours? I tried it once using convection at 175 bc that's the lowest it will go, and after hAlf hr the top of the soap came out all bubbley like, and rough feeling. To high a temp maybe?

2. I have a batch came out great so far, gelled perfect only problem is the scent is completely gone so I'll never use that scent ever again fyi it was by rustic escentuals called candy cane cupcake, after day 5 of curing the scent was gone, what should I do with the soap, how do I "rebatch" soap?

3. Ive done a few milk instead of water, the 1st time I did it I used goats milk and it stayed liquid like, unfortunately the 2nd time I tired it and 3rd time I used coconut milk, once I got all the lye mixed in and it cooled down to about 90 degrees it went thick on me almost to the point of pudding, why did this happen? I didn't do anything different, will that affect the the quality of the soap if I were to still have used it? I ended up throwing it out wasting both milk and lye

4. Is it OK to use stearic acid in all my recipes to help make the bar harder?

5. Sodium lactate is pricey so can I use white vinegar instead since it's so much cheaper?

6. Bc I have so many scents that have a vanillin  in it and the brambleberry vanilla stabilizer is only used with mp is there something else I can use or is there a stabilzer that works best for cp?

7. I've tried different ingredients to play around with on the soapee calc to tried and get the bubbley as high as possible and the longevity a high number, what oils work best for this?

8. Bc of the experience I had with the 1 scent I used, I heard adding kaolin clay will help bind the scent to that after its done curing the scent will stick. Is this true and if so how much do I use?

Sorry for all the questions


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## Scooter (Oct 14, 2016)

I really like that green color. Congrats on what looks like a nice bar of soap.

Scooter


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## Desirae (Oct 14, 2016)

Scooter said:


> I really like that green color. Congrats on what looks like a nice bar of soap.
> 
> Scooter



Thank you, for the compliment however actually the green didn't come close to what I was wanting it to be, the scent is mistletoe and ivy and I was trying for a dark green, the color is called woodland Green and I bought it from bulk apothecary but it didn't come close to the color that's in the bag of powder


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## shunt2011 (Oct 14, 2016)

Desirae said:


> So my 1st real batch has hit its 4 week mark I used color and scent. And it came out perfect, my only problem stupid me can't find the recipe I used that I would love to make my permanent recipe, I got large bubbles smells great so now I have no clue what to do bc I can't find the recipe I do know I used gv shortening, CO, OO but can't remember what else so right now I'm hating myself big time. So I have a few questions of different topics so thought it best to post here in 1 single post and hope you all don't mind.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




1.  Most just turn their oven on when they start making the soap and turn it off when the soap goes n and leave the door shut. I don't CPOP as I can obtain gel without the oven.  

2.  Some scents just don't stick.  Haven't found anything that makes them stick so, I use those for other things.  Sometimes the scent will come back after cure or at least when used in the shower. 

3. It's the fats in the milk saponifying. Hats mostly why I do the split method and add the milk and powdered milk to my oils and mix my lye with water.  

4.  I've not used it in anything but shave soap so no help. 

5.  I use SL it doesn't take much.  Salt will help too. 1 tsp ppo added to your water and dissolved before adding lye. I've not used vinegar 

6.  I haven't found that VS lasts long term so I just work with it.  I frequently leave part of my batter unscented and colored then swirl that into my scented batter.   Has worked well for me. Plus VS is expensive. WSP carries it. 

7.  Bubbly is CO, PKO and Babassu.  Too much of these can be drying. As for longevity I use lard or Palm.  High CO soap will dissolve quicker.  

8. I have not found this to be true in my experience.  However, I also avoid faders.


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## Desirae (Oct 14, 2016)

shunt2011 said:


> 1.  Most just turn their oven on when they start making the soap and turn it off when the soap goes n and leave the door shut. I don't CPOP as I can obtain gel without the oven.
> 
> 2.  Some scents just don't stick.  Haven't found anything that makes them stick so, I use those for other things.  Sometimes the scent will come back after cure or at least when used in the shower.
> 
> ...



Ok I'll do that when trying the cpop, for me when I try to get,  I end up with it only partially  gelling and then I have a batch of soap that looks awful 
Thanks for the other tips and what is pko? 

Also can you go into a little more detail with how you do your milk based batch? Do u cut back on your water amount since adding  the milk also? And do you add the milk before or after trace?  Also lastly sorry for the stupid question  but if you added only the milk powder to the batter  how is that still milk when it's  only powder, I know I've read other posts where they say to add 1 or 2 tbs of powder to the powder but my confusion  is how is that considered  adding milk when it's  only a tiny little bit of powder that hasn't even been made into milk.  I hope you understand what I'm asking lol


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## kchaystack (Oct 14, 2016)

Desirae said:


> 1. What temp should I use for coop? My oven is both a convection and regular oven, what one should I use and what temp and for how many minutes/hours? I tried it once using convection at 175 bc that's the lowest it will go, and after hAlf hr the top of the soap came out all bubbley like, and rough feeling. To high a temp maybe?



To use your oven to force gel, head the over to its lowest temp.  Place your soap and mold into the over and turn the over off and leave it as the over cools. Don't open the door if you can help it - use the light and window to make sure it is not overheating and turning into a volcano.  I would put it on a cookie sheet lined with parchment paper so if it does, you do not make a huge mess in the oven.




Desirae said:


> 2. I have a batch came out great so far, gelled perfect only problem is the scent is completely gone so I'll never use that scent ever again fyi it was by rustic escentuals called candy cane cupcake, after day 5 of curing the scent was gone, what should I do with the soap, how do I "rebatch" soap?



You could rebatch, or just grate it up with a cheese grater or food processor and use it to make confetti soap.  



Desirae said:


> 3. Ive done a few milk instead of water, the 1st time I did it I used goats milk and it stayed liquid like, unfortunately the 2nd time I tired it and 3rd time I used coconut milk, once I got all the lye mixed in and it cooled down to about 90 degrees it went thick on me almost to the point of pudding, why did this happen? I didn't do anything different, will that affect the the quality of the soap if I were to still have used it? I ended up throwing it out wasting both milk and lye



The milk had more fat in it than the previous ones, so that fat started to saponify.  Its normal and you could have used it with no problems.




Desirae said:


> 4. Is it OK to use stearic acid in all my recipes to help make the bar harder?



Stearic acid is very difficult to use in CP soaps.  You have to soap hotter and it causes accelerated trace.  There are other ways to harden soap - force gelling, adding a teaspoon of salt per pound of oil to your liquid before you add the lye will also help.



Desirae said:


> 5. Sodium lactate is pricey so can I use white vinegar instead since it's so much cheaper?



Here is a thread about using vingar:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=59148&highlight=vinegar




Desirae said:


> 6. Bc I have so many scents that have a vanillin  in it and the brambleberry vanilla stabilizer is only used with mp is there something else I can use or is there a stabilzer that works best for cp?




Not really.  Even vanilla stabilizer will only delay the discoloration, not prevent it.  Its best to just plan for it in your design and go with it.



Desirae said:


> 7. I've tried different ingredients to play around with on the soapee calc to tried and get the bubbley as high as possible and the longevity a high number, what oils work best for this?



Sigh.  I wish the would take the labels off those numbers.  There are several threads about them on this forum that go into it. 

Basically there are 3 oils that are considered the bubbly oils.  Coconut, palm kernal and babassu.  But they also can be drying to the skin if you do not balance the fatty acid content of the soap.  

You can add 5 -10% castor oil to help stabilize the lather.  You can also use some kind of sugar (cane sugar, honey, milk, aloe juice for example) to boost your bubbles.  Using sugar can cause acceleration and overheating so you have to watch the soap until you are comfortable with your recipe and FO.



Desirae said:


> 8. Bc of the experience I had with the 1 scent I used, I heard adding kaolin clay will help bind the scent to that after its done curing the scent will stick. Is this true and if so how much do I use?



This is another thing that is very subjective.  Most people on the forum have not found that clay anchors scent at all.  Some report it works great.  No way to tell if it will work for you unless you try.

I add it sometimes for a light exfoliant (I can feel it in my bars).  I use a tablespoon per pound of oil.




Desirae said:


> Sorry for all the questions



No problem.  Better to ask than to not.


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## earlene (Oct 14, 2016)

Desirae said:


> So my 1st real batch has hit its 4 week mark I used color and scent. And it came out perfect, my only problem stupid me can't find the recipe I used that I would love to make my permanent recipe, I got large bubbles smells great so now I have no clue what to do bc I can't find the recipe I do know I used gv shortening, CO, OO but can't remember what else so right now I'm hating myself big time. So I have a few questions of different topics so thought it best to post here in 1 single post and hope you all don't mind.
> 
> 1. What temp should I use for coop? My oven is both a convection and regular oven, what one should I use and what temp and for how many minutes/hours? I tried it once using convection at 175 bc that's the lowest it will go, and after hAlf hr the top of the soap came out all bubbley like, and rough feeling. To high a temp maybe?
> 
> ...



Your green soap is very pretty. 

Question #1. Did you turn off the oven after it heated up. The trick is to pre-heat the oven, then turn it off before/when putting in the soap.  Cover the soap while in the oven (cardboard top, towel or inverted cardboard box - whatever fits) to keep the heat in the soap so it will gel. LEAVE the soap undisturbed for several hours or overnight. Do Not open the oven door as the heat escapes, until the next morning or several hours later. Leave the oven light on if it produces heat (some do, some don't).
I have no experience with convection oven, although I understand that a continuous hot air flow speeds up the cook process.  I don't think you want that if your lowest setting is 170, though.

Question #2. Non-scented soap is still soap and is fine to use.  I wouldn't rebatch it all. I'd keep at least one or two bars for testing purposes.  You can learn a lot from the soap as it ages. 


Question #5.  Others have more experience with using white vinegar. I have only just started experimenting with it and am too much of a novice to the inside and outside of vinegar in soap to explain it well.


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## Desirae (Oct 14, 2016)

kchaystack said:


> To use your oven to force gel, head the over to its lowest temp.  Place your soap and mold into the over and turn the over off and leave it as the over cools. Don't open the door if you can help it - use the light and window to make sure it is not overheating and turning into a volcano.  I would put it on a cookie sheet lined with parchment paper so if it does, you do not make a huge mess in the oven.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh my gosh thank you  thank you,  you are a saint sent to me.  I'll just hour for the best and when using titanium  dioxide  I won't scent that portion of my batter to avoid  the ugly browning. I think I'll avoid the sugar but will try the salt idea.  As with the stearic is it ok to melt it with my butters  and oils ?  The recipe I used it in I did that and it called for such a small amount I'm not sure if it even made a difference . It was a 42 oz batch and I used only .4 so less then half an oz,  or should I avoid using it all together .
For the milk since you said the fat caused it, if my recipe calls for 12 oz of water will my lye solution  be less likely  to thicken  to pudding if I used 6 oz of water and 6 oz of milk this way I'm still using the milk for the creaminess ? What I find odd  with my milks being different fats is that I used powdered goats milk and rather then making it each time and chance it not made right each time I made up a batch big enough to use in 4 different  batches, besides measuring water to powder ratio was a pain then mixing it well enough was an even bigger pain in the neck.  That's why I was actually considering  using p remade no more measuring lol but if I do that should I do half water half milk and will that help it from becoming  pudding on me? 

Thanks for all your advice


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## shunt2011 (Oct 14, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Ok I'll do that when trying the cpop, for me when I try to get, I end up with it only partially gelling and then I have a batch of soap that looks awful
> Thanks for the other tips and what is pko?
> 
> Also can you go into a little more detail with how you do your milk based batch? Do u cut back on your water amount since adding the milk also? And do you add the milk before or after trace? Also lastly sorry for the stupid question but if you added only the milk powder to the batter how is that still milk when it's only powder, I know I've read other posts where they say to add 1 or 2 tbs of powder to the powder but my confusion is how is that considered adding milk when it's only a tiny little bit of powder that hasn't even been made into milk. I hope you understand what I'm asking lol


 
I add enough milk powder to make equal full milk amount.  I use the same amount of water as lye to dissolve my lye.   Then I use the rest of the required liquid amount in milk.  I add my powdered milk to the liquid milk to equal full when added.  Then I stickblend that into my oils before adding my cooled lye mixture.

PKO is Palm Kernel Oil (flakes)   Have similar property as Coconut.  Can be too cleansing in too high amount.   I like to use it in conjunction with my Coconut but have recently run out so just using CO.


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## kchaystack (Oct 14, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Oh my gosh thank you  thank you,  you are a saint sent to me.  I'll just hour for the best and when using titanium  dioxide  I won't scent that portion of my batter to avoid  the ugly browning. I think I'll avoid the sugar but will try the salt idea.  As with the stearic is it ok to melt it with my butters  and oils ?  The recipe I used it in I did that and it called for such a small amount I'm not sure if it even made a difference . It was a 42 oz batch and I used only .4 so less then half an oz,  or should I avoid using it all together .



You are welcome.  

I don't think the browning is ugly - if you plan for it.  We did a challenge on here with discoloring FO's and they were really pretty.  Here are the pics of everyone's entries:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=56326

I would avoid stearic acid.  At least until you are much more comfortable with the process.  I only use stearic acid in shave soap, but that is hot process soap and is a different beast.




Desirae said:


> For the milk since you said the fat caused it, if my recipe calls for 12 oz of water will my lye solution  be less likely  to thicken  to pudding if I used 6 oz of water and 6 oz of milk this way I'm still using the milk for the creaminess ? What I find odd  with my milks being different fats is that I used powdered goats milk and rather then making it each time and chance it not made right each time I made up a batch big enough to use in 4 different  batches, besides measuring water to powder ratio was a pain then mixing it well enough was an even bigger pain in the neck.  That's why I was actually considering  using p remade no more measuring lol but if I do that should I do half water half milk and will that help it from becoming  pudding on me?
> 
> Thanks for all your advice




If your recipe calls for 12 oz of water, you would use 12 oz of milk and no water. 

Or, like shunt said, you split your lye solution.  Add water = to the weight of your NaOH.  Then the rest of your water amount you use milk, add it to your oils and stick blend well before you add your lye.  

If you want to fortify your milk with extra powdered milk, you can do that.  

This keeps your milk from scorching from the heat of the lye, and you do not have to mess with freezing your milk and using an ice bath when you make your lye.  I've done that, it is a pain.

You can also just add enough powdered milk to your oils before you add your lye and mix it well.  When you add your lye the water in the lye will hydrate the powdered milk.  Again this prevents scorching anything


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## Desirae (Oct 14, 2016)

earlene said:


> Your green soap is very pretty.
> 
> Question #1. Did you turn off the oven after it heated up. The trick is to pre-heat the oven, then turn it off before/when putting in the soap.  Cover the soap while in the oven (cardboard top, towel or inverted cardboard box - whatever fits) to keep the heat in the soap so it will gel. LEAVE the soap undisturbed for several hours or overnight. Do Not open the oven door as the heat escapes, until the next morning or several hours later. Leave the oven light on if it produces heat (some do, some don't).
> I have no experience with convection oven, although I understand that a continuous hot air flow speeds up the cook process.  I don't think you want that if your lowest setting is 170, though.
> ...




I have no problem  using the sl  I was just hoping that I could use something else that I can find in store rather then ordering online and was cheaper option too.

As for the oven, I read a few didn't places and it was mixed,  I tried 1 of them which is the one I probably  shouldn't have done,  it said to turn on the oven to 175 degrees preheat then put the loaf  in the oven with the oven on and 1 hr per lb, so I did that,  nothing about covering it up. So I'll try it the way you told me to,  my light bulb does not put off any heat.  I only turn on my oven to preheat  once it reaches temp put my loaf in with it covered  up then turn off the oven and then leave it be for 24hrs, I got that right?  And I could use that now unscented  batch a few as gifts a few to make confetti  out of,  it was my 1 st try at making half the loaf 1 color and the other half another color so that I could attempt  to swirl them a little  bit, problem  was it was too thick by the time I pulled out the cardboard that the soap actually would swirl together  so half of  it is white and other half is red,  hence the candy cane cupcake fo  I chose,  I'll take it as a learning curve and next time be sure to use a lighter trace


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## navigator9 (Oct 14, 2016)

One extra tip for CPOP...if you're using a silicone mold, preheat the mold too. Here's what I do. When I start soaping, I turn the oven on to it's lowest temp, and place the mold in there to warm up. Just before I'm ready to pour, I take the mold out, (now, it's nice and toasty) close the oven door, pour the soap into the mold, pop it into the oven, close the door again, and turn the oven off. Leave it in there, til the next morning, and I don't open the door. My soap gels all the way to the edges every time. I think it's possible that when people's soap doesn't gel all the way, they may not have pre heated the mold, too. Hope this helps.

P.S. I looooove the color of your soap. It may not be what you were aiming for, but it's a beautiful color for a bar of soap.


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## Desirae (Oct 14, 2016)

kchaystack said:


> You are welcome.
> 
> I don't think the browning is ugly - if you plan for it.  We did a challenge on here with discoloring FO's and they were really pretty.  Here are the pics of everyone's entries:
> http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=56326
> ...


 
Wow that's a  good idea,  idk why I never thought of that,  we'll heck I'll just do that for now on when I use milk rather then water,  thank you for that . With the other idea about adding  water equal to lye, you mean that by if I need 4 oz lye then use 4 oz water and the rest milk?


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## Desirae (Oct 14, 2016)

navigator9 said:


> One extra tip for CPOP...if you're using a silicone mold, preheat the mold too. Here's what I do. When I start soaping, I turn the oven on to it's lowest temp, and place the mold in there to warm up. Just before I'm ready to pour, I take the mold out, (now, it's nice and toasty) close the oven door, pour the soap into the mold, pop it into the oven, close the door again, and turn the oven off. Leave it in there, til the next morning, and I don't open the door. My soap gels all the way to the edges every time. I think it's possible that when people's soap doesn't gel all the way, they may not have pre heated the mold, too. Hope this helps.
> 
> P.S. I looooove the color of your soap. It may not be what you were aiming for, but it's a beautiful color for a bar of soap.


Thank you for the compliment  I appreciate  that.  So for my mold when I preheat  it, which all my mold are silicone bc after I saw the $$ amount for the regular  mold I almost spit my drink out every where $80 for a small 2lbs loaf in my book is way too much besides i tried to line a loaf lets just say it had wrinkles all over the place bc i couldnt get the freezer paper to lay flate in the corners, they wanted to overlap,  especially  when I can use that to buy stuff that I run out of,  but my silicone  molds are held in wood so will that be ok to put in the oven also or do I need to take out the silicone then after its time to use it have to use oven mittens to get it back in the wood  so I don't burn my hands


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## shunt2011 (Oct 14, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Wow that's a  good idea,  idk why I never thought of that,  we'll heck I'll just do that for now on when I use milk rather then water,  thank you for that . With the other idea about adding  water equal to lye, you mean that by if I need 4 oz lye then use 4 oz water and the rest milk?




Yes, that's what I do.


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## shunt2011 (Oct 14, 2016)

I have silicone molds that fit in wood boxes. You can put the whole thing in the oven.  And I've yes, if it calls doe 4 oz of lye I dissolve it in 4 oz of water the rest is milk.


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## kchaystack (Oct 14, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Wow that's a  good idea,  idk why I never thought of that,  we'll heck I'll just do that for now on when I use milk rather then water,  thank you for that . With the other idea about adding  water equal to lye, you mean that by if I need 4 oz lye then use 4 oz water and the rest milk?



Yes, that is right.

Here is what I do.  I would not suggest trying this until you are pretty comfortable with making soap.

I master batch my lye at 50% concentration and usually make 1kg (so 500 g NaOH and 500 g water) at a time.  I keep it stored in a well washed laundry detergent bottle.  This means my lye is always at room temp.

When I make soap, I pour out twice what the calculator says is my amount of lye ( since it is a 50% concentration you need 2 times as much solution to get the right amount of lye) and then I add the lye weight of aloe juice.  This makes a 33% lye solution - which is what I like to soap at.   

Adding the aloe does make the lye heat up a bit - but never as much as mixing it fresh.  

All my other additives (if I add any) go into my oils and get a good blast with my stick blender.   I will sometimes add kaolin clay, powdered goat milk, sodium lactate.  I don't usually use sugar or honey.


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## penelopejane (Oct 14, 2016)

I follow shunts post 9 for milk soap. It's easy and works well. 

For CPOP I would personally not preheat my silicone mold. A lot of people have had problems with silicone molds being overheated and getting blisters that never go away. 

I put my mold in a cardboard box that fits it (would love a wooden one!) then wrap it in a blanket and put it in the oven (which is turned off) and leave it overnight. 

I put it in when the oven is 40* C (102* F). It does not matter what temp you preheat any oven to. You let it cool until it gets to this temp. You can be a micro manager like me and use a thermometer or you can use your hand - it is the temp of a very hot day. 

If you overheat your soap it will be leathery and a funky smell forever ie: ruined.


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## navigator9 (Oct 14, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Thank you for the compliment  I appreciate  that.  So for my mold when I preheat  it, which all my mold are silicone bc after I saw the $$ amount for the regular  mold I almost spit my drink out every where $80 for a small 2lbs loaf in my book is way too much besides i tried to line a loaf lets just say it had wrinkles all over the place bc i couldnt get the freezer paper to lay flate in the corners, they wanted to overlap,  especially  when I can use that to buy stuff that I run out of,  but my silicone  molds are held in wood so will that be ok to put in the oven also or do I need to take out the silicone then after its time to use it have to use oven mittens to get it back in the wood  so I don't burn my hands



I can only give you my personal experience...I have molds from several different suppliers, Upland, Nurture Soaps, Ebay, Aliexpress, and I preheat them all in the oven in their wooden boxes. I've not had a problem with the boxes or the silicone molds. The lowest setting on my oven is 170 degrees. I don't need to use potholders when I move them, in their boxes. And I have never gotten blisters or pock marks on my soap. Ever. The sides of my soap that touch the silicone come out smooth as glass.  I'd say try it with one of your molds and see how it works for you. That's the only way you'll be able to tell for sure.


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## Desirae (Oct 14, 2016)

navigator9 said:


> I can only give you my personal experience...I have molds from several different suppliers, Upland, Nurture Soaps, Ebay, Aliexpress, and I preheat them all in the oven in their wooden boxes. I've not had a problem with the boxes or the silicone molds. The lowest setting on my oven is 170 degrees. I don't need to use potholders when I move them, in their boxes. And I have never gotten blisters or pock marks on my soap. Ever. The sides of my soap that touch the silicone come out smooth as glass.  I'd say try it with one of your molds and see how it works for you. That's the only way you'll be able to tell for sure.



Most of my molds I've bought from amazon, I did buy 1 from wholesale supplies, I am making a batch tonight and will definitely use your method for sure. Out of curiosity,  since 2 of my mold are silicone with the wooden box, can the box itself be used as a mold itself as long as I line it with freezer paper? Just wondering since it would allow more batter for my batch. My mold is made to fit 42 oz and when I make my batter I always always have extra left over to put in another mold that I have that will hold up to 16oz as there individual pockets, I'd like to try and make all the batter fit one 1 mold so I only have 1 mold to clean rather then 2


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## navigator9 (Oct 14, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Most of my molds I've bought from amazon, I did buy 1 from wholesale supplies, I am making a batch tonight and will definitely use your method for sure. Out of curiosity,  since 2 of my mold are silicone with the wooden box, can the box itself be used as a mold itself as long as I line it with freezer paper? Just wondering since it would allow more batter for my batch. My mold is made to fit 42 oz and when I make my batter I always always have extra left over to put in another mold that I have that will hold up to 16oz as there individual pockets, I'd like to try and make all the batter fit one 1 mold so I only have 1 mold to clean rather then 2



I only got a couple of hours sleep last night, so I'm a bit fuzzy today, but if what you are asking is if you can use the wooden box from your silicone mold, without the silicone, but instead lined with freezer paper...I don't see why not. And just a thought, the silicone liners from Nurture Soaps are great quality and a great price, especially if you build your own box for them. I have no woodworking training whatsoever, and I managed to make boxes for my silicone liners. It makes them much more affordable if you build your own box. Back when I started soaping silicone molds were crazy expensive, it's really nice to see them become more affordable.Keeping my fingers crossed for you! :-D


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## Desirae (Oct 14, 2016)

navigator9 said:


> I only got a couple of hours sleep last night, so I'm a bit fuzzy today, but if what you are asking is if you can use the wooden box from your silicone mold, without the silicone, but instead lined with freezer paper...I don't see why not. And just a thought, the silicone liners from Nurture Soaps are great quality and a great price, especially if you build your own box for them. I have no woodworking training whatsoever, and I managed to make boxes for my silicone liners. It makes them much more affordable if you build your own box. Back when I started soaping silicone molds were crazy expensive, it's really nice to see them become more affordable.Keeping my fingers crossed for you! :-D


Thank you for letting me, I wasn't sure if I could considering its a much thinner wood compared to the wood boxes I've seen on brambleberry which are ridiculous expensive, I wish I knew why there so high priced, and they don't even come with the silicone liner, which bring my next question, is there something different about how soap molds using those wood boxes as apposed to using the silicone mold that has the wood boxes like mine? This is the type I have, and I love them, butb1 thing I really absolutely hate about them is that when I unfold them the corners always get rubbed off even after sitting in the mold for 2 days.is it better to use wood molds with freezer paper or silicone? And how would I go about making my own wood mold?


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## navigator9 (Oct 14, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Thank you for letting me, I wasn't sure if I could considering its a much thinner wood compared to the wood boxes I've seen on brambleberry which are ridiculous expensive, I wish I knew why there so high priced, and they don't even come with the silicone liner, which bring my next question, is there something different about how soap molds using those wood boxes as apposed to using the silicone mold that has the wood boxes like mine? This is the type I have, and I love them, butb1 thing I really absolutely hate about them is that when I unfold them the corners always get rubbed off even after sitting in the mold for 2 days.is it better to use wood molds with freezer paper or silicone? And how would I go about making my own wood mold?



When you ask about the difference between a thicker and a thinner wooden box, the only purpose of the wooden box is to stop the silicone mold from bowing out when the soap is poured into it. Most silicone molds are very flexible, and if you fill them, they bend out at the sides. The wooden box keeps them square. As to whether it's better to use the wooden box with freezer paper or silicone, it doesn't make a difference to the soap, it's just that folding freezer paper can be tedious if you make a lot of soap, and silicone eliminates that job, and also gives you nice, smooth sides. One thing I might be concerned about with your wooden molds and putting them in the oven is, that being that thin, are they even thick enough to be nailed or screwed together, or are they maybe just glued. If they are held together with glue, repeated heating and cooling may loosen them. As far as making your own mold, there are many different designs if you Google "diy wooden soap mold". Some are easier than others. Here is just one of them. You would have to measure your silicone liners and make the box the appropriate size to fit them.  [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN-_Ktoi-j4[/ame]


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## IrishLass (Oct 14, 2016)

Desirae said:


> IAs for the oven, I read a few didn't places and it was mixed,


 
It will be mixed no matter where you read, even here. 

CPOP exists for one purpose- to ensure full gel. The temp required to bring a soap to full gel can vary, though, depending on several factors- your water amount/lye concentration, the type of soap mold, your fragrance oil, your soaping temp, etc., That's why CPOP advice can be so mixed. 

The best advice I can give anyone regarding CPOP is what I wrote to another forum member yesterday: attaining full gel via CPOP is best accomplished by using the _least_ amount of heat from the oven that will get the job done..... the amount of which will vary from person to person based on the above-mentioned factors^^^).

I regard CPOP as a method of _encouraging/coaxing_ full gel, as opposed to _forcing_ full gel. Usually when one tries to force it, they set the oven too high and something usually ends up going wrong with the soap. You may have to experiment with each of your formulas to find that 'sweet-spot' oven temp for CPOP, but always start on the low side of the thermostat, somewhere between 100F - 110F or so. 

Most ovens only go as low as 170F, but keep in mind that as an oven is heating up, there's a point in time where it will reach 110F (or whatever other low temp) on its upward climb to 170F. For my own oven, the point in time that it reaches 110F is 3 minutes from the moment I turn the oven on. After those 3 minutes are up, I pop my soap in the oven and immediately turn it off (and leave it off) and then let it sit there for 18 to 24 hours before unmolding and cutting. I get full gel 99% of the time (there's always that occasional misbehaving batch out of the bunch, of course). 

Anyway- for my own batches, 170F is exorbitantly high. I don't want to cook the soap- I only want to give it a enough of a nudge so it can merrily go on to do what it likes to do naturally. I only heat my oven to 170F when I'm HPing.


IrishLass


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## penelopejane (Oct 15, 2016)

Desiree 
If the corners of your soap are crumbling you have a problem which can be fixed.  It could be that you haven't left them in the mold long enough. Following Irish Lass's instructions for CPOP which encourages gel will also speed the initial cure so the soap will be harder a little quicker and the soap will be able to be taken out of the mold sooner and in one piece.


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## Desirae (Oct 15, 2016)

IrishLass said:


> It will be mixed no matter where you read, even here.
> 
> CPOP exists for one purpose- to ensure full gel. The temp required to bring a soap to full gel can vary, though, depending on several factors- your water amount/lye concentration, the type of soap mold, your fragrance oil, your soaping temp, etc., That's why CPOP advice can be so mixed.
> 
> ...



Thank you for that info, I'll definitely have to do a timer on mine and see how long it takes to get to that temperature


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## Desirae (Oct 15, 2016)

navigator9 said:


> When you ask about the difference between a thicker and a thinner wooden box, the only purpose of the wooden box is to stop the silicone mold from bowing out when the soap is poured into it. Most silicone molds are very flexible, and if you fill them, they bend out at the sides. The wooden box keeps them square. As to whether it's better to use the wooden box with freezer paper or silicone, it doesn't make a difference to the soap, it's just that folding freezer paper can be tedious if you make a lot of soap, and silicone eliminates that job, and also gives you nice, smooth sides. One thing I might be concerned about with your wooden molds and putting them in the oven is, that being that thin, are they even thick enough to be nailed or screwed together, or are they maybe just glued. If they are held together with glue, repeated heating and cooling may loosen them. As far as making your own mold, there are many different designs if you Google "diy wooden soap mold". Some are easier than others. Here is just one of them. You would have to measure your silicone liners and make the box the appropriate size to fit them.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN-_Ktoi-j4



I would be interested in trying to line my wooden box and use that as my mold just to try it once just so I can see how it differs from the silicone and if easier to unmolding as apposed to the silicone unmolding. I would imagine it's easier unmolding wood boxes since all you have to do is lift the paper up and out and viola where with my molds when I unmolding I have to release the air pockets and sometimes spend 20 min getting it out of the mold bc it doesn't want to release from the very bottom edge corners. I've looked online and all the videos I've watch on how to line they make it look SO SO complicated to do, do you have a good way to explain how to do it or a video that's better at showing it step by step, alot of the videos I've seen are missing alot of important stuff like how to determine  how wide my liner needs to be etc. I'd appreciate it, and also my wooden boxes are held by glue


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## penelopejane (Oct 15, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Thank you for that info, I'll definitely have to do a timer on mine and see how long it takes to get to that temperature



100*F is the temp of a very hot day. You can use your hand to test the temp but it would be better to use a cooking thermometer. 

People pay a fortune for silicon molds because they are so much easier than lining molds with paper which creases and leaves marks on the soap and allows soap batter to leak etc. 

IMO you would be better off either being patient and leaving your soap in the silicone mold for 3 + days or however long it takes for your soap to pop out in 30 seconds or working out where your receipe or process is going wrong as this should not happen. 
But if you want to struggle on, only to find the same thing happens with your wooden mold this is also a sticky:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=30362

But don't CPOP your mix, use your lined wooden mold and then say silicone does not work because CPOPing following Irish Lass's instructions might fix your problem with soft corners and if it doesn't you have a problem with your recipe. 

If your 42oz mix is too big for your mold look at the sticky about mold size and work out how much batter you need for your mold then go to soap calc and adjust your mix accordingly:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=2909


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## kchaystack (Oct 15, 2016)

Desirae said:


> I would be interested in trying to line my wooden box and use that as my mold just to try it once just so I can see how it differs from the silicone and if easier to unmolding as apposed to the silicone unmolding. I would imagine it's easier unmolding wood boxes since all you have to do is lift the paper up and out and viola where with my molds when I unmolding I have to release the air pockets and sometimes spend 20 min getting it out of the mold bc it doesn't want to release from the very bottom edge corners. I've looked online and all the videos I've watch on how to line they make it look SO SO complicated to do, do you have a good way to explain how to do it or a video that's better at showing it step by step, alot of the videos I've seen are missing alot of important stuff like how to determine  how wide my liner needs to be etc. I'd appreciate it, and also my wooden boxes are held by glue



Here are the ones I used to learn how to do line the few wooden molds I have.

https://youtu.be/Z6k0Hyu_FYw
https://youtu.be/3mSg-OQ51hM
https://youtu.be/8AHajJtHj4g


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## Desirae (Oct 15, 2016)

penelopejane said:


> 100*F is the temp of a very hot day. You can use your hand to test the temp but it would be better to use a cooking thermometer.
> 
> People pay a fortune for silicon molds because they are so much easier than lining molds with paper which creases and leaves marks on the soap and allows soap batter to leak etc.
> 
> ...



I really just was trying to find out the difference btwn the silicone and wood, the reasoning behind all this is bc it seems to be alot cheaper to pay $18 for the mold I have which is silicone inside the wooden box, as apposed to say brambleberry  $80 wood mold for the same size as my $18 mold, so I just wanted to know why ppl buy those rather then the silicone I thought maybe there was something special about having to line the wood boxes, I just think it's insane to spend $80 for a wood box to have to line it and end up with creases leakage etc when you can pay 1/4 of the cost for a mold that has a silicone mold inside the wooden box and get perfect sides. That's all I was really wanting to know about the wood.

As for the CPOP I've read different sites about it so I wanted your alls opinion on how to so I don't screw it up a 2nd time. I wasn't arguing about how to do it that's why I asked how to correctly do it, I wasn't saying silicone was messing up CPOP, you did not read my originally posted correct, I just couldn't figure out why my edges were rubbing off and when that was happening had nothing to do with cpop'ing. my CPOP problem was that the top of my soap was bubbling and looked rubber like not bc my edges were rubbed off. I wasn't looking to get chewed out which is how you came across to me


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## penelopejane (Oct 15, 2016)

Desirae said:


> I really just was trying to find out the difference btwn the silicone and wood, the reasoning behind all this is bc it seems to be alot cheaper to pay $18 for the mold I have which is silicone inside the wooden box, as apposed to say brambleberry  $80 wood mold for the same size as my $18 mold, so I just wanted to know why ppl buy those rather then the silicone.
> 
> As for the CPOP I've read different sites about it so I wanted your alls opinion on how to so I don't screw it up a 2nd time. I wasn't arguing about how to do it that's why I asked how to correctly do it, I wasn't saying silicone was messing up CPOP, you did not read my originally posted correct, I just couldn't figure out why my edges were rubbing off and when that was happening had nothing to do with cpop'ing. my CPOP problem was that the top of my soap was bubbling and looked rubber like not bc my edges were rubbed off. I wasn't looking to get chewed out which is how you came across to me



Sorry I sound crabby. I am crabby because I haven't made soap in over a week!!

I think people wait for sales to buy silicone molds or buy them from nurture (best molds) on sale and make their own wooden boxes or if they can't do woodwork they just pay up! 

You will get the weirdest information on the net! 
You will still get conflicting info on this forum because soap is so incredibly variable. A recipe might work perfectly in Florida in someone's silicon mold bought from Italy and be a complete failure in Death Valley. 

You really have to work out what works for you, your oven, your recipe, your mold and your climate! It is pretty difficult. 

Then this also applies to your recipe!

The thing is the CPOP will speed up the process a bit and might solve the problem you have with crumbly corners and getting the soap out of the mold. If not come back because that problem can be solved with a recipe fix.


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## Desirae (Oct 15, 2016)

kchaystack said:


> Here are the ones I used to learn how to do line the few wooden molds I have.
> 
> https://youtu.be/Z6k0Hyu_FYw
> https://youtu.be/3mSg-OQ51hM
> https://youtu.be/8AHajJtHj4g



Thank you for those, looks like I'll stick with my silicone, looks like no matter what it's a total pain in the butt, there are pros and cons of both, silicone you have to wash, with wood lining you can toss and go. I'll have to give it a try to see if I can do it right. I'm always up for a challenge lol


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## Desirae (Oct 15, 2016)

penelopejane said:


> Sorry I sound crabby. I am crabby because I haven't made soap in over a week!!
> 
> I think people wait for sales to buy silicone molds or buy them from nurture (best molds) on sale and make their own wooden boxes or if they can't do woodwork they just pay up!
> 
> ...



Thank you and it's ok, we all have our bad days trust me. As for the one u mentioned nature? Is that the site? I'm so stuck on buying molds from amazon bc they seem to be the cheapest however there don't carry slab molds or vertical molds which I would like to try but also if it doesn't work with the vertical mold then I wasted money and they get expensive eek. But the ones I do have I have these ones that are individual bars and holds 6 but they keep bowing out, oddly even when I use mp so they might be going into the trash. 

I thought using the sodium lactate would help with my edges, and it's not the whole edge just the corners of the edges, maybe I'm pushing on it to hard? And I live in VA where it's constantly humid, needless to say I stick can't get bath bombs to stay round they activate still, it's 70 degrees right now and humidity is still at like 45%, my house I have 3 coral reef tanks so inside humidity is always at least 65% so I have a bad feeling I'm going to have issues.

But I'm really hating myself right now bc that batch I made, pictured on the 1st page came out picture perfect and I can't find my recipe


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## shunt2011 (Oct 15, 2016)

Nurture Soap Supplies. I have 6 of her silicone molds. 3 I purchased the liners only and my husband made the wood molds for them to fit in. They are excellent.


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## penelopejane (Oct 15, 2016)

Desirae said:


> As for the one u mentioned nature?
> 
> I'm so stuck on buying molds from amazon bc they seem to be the cheapest however there don't carry slab molds or vertical molds which I would like to try but also if it doesn't work with the vertical mold then I wasted money and they get expensive eek. But the ones I do have I have these ones that are individual bars and holds 6 but they keep bowing out, oddly even when I use mp so they might be going into the trash.
> 
> But I'm really hating myself right now bc that batch I made, pictured on the 1st page came out picture perfect and I can't find my recipe



I think it is pretty much universally accepted that these are the best silicone molds (yes, not all silicone - as you have found - is the same). 

https://nurturesoap.com/collections/soap-molds

I don't have nurture ones and I am very happy with mine.  They unmold perfectly every time but I have never cooked them so have not had blisters on them.  Your internet ones sound fine.  Just be careful to CPOP at the temps suggested by Irish Lass and no more. 

I don't think it is the molds that are causing the corners to break. It could be:
* not waiting long enough
* waiting too long if it is a salt bar recipe
* something wrong with your recipe
* not CPOPing
* using a lye concentration % that is too low


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## navigator9 (Oct 16, 2016)

Desirae said:


> I would be interested in trying to line my wooden box and use that as my mold just to try it once just so I can see how it differs from the silicone and if easier to unmolding as apposed to the silicone unmolding. I would imagine it's easier unmolding wood boxes since all you have to do is lift the paper up and out and viola where with my molds when I unmolding I have to release the air pockets and sometimes spend 20 min getting it out of the mold bc it doesn't want to release from the very bottom edge corners. I've looked online and all the videos I've watch on how to line they make it look SO SO complicated to do, do you have a good way to explain how to do it or a video that's better at showing it step by step, alot of the videos I've seen are missing alot of important stuff like how to determine  how wide my liner needs to be etc. I'd appreciate it, and also my wooden boxes are held by glue



I think I must be missing something in your explanation of how you get your soap out of the silicone molds. It should not be difficult, actually just the opposite. If you're having trouble, it may be because the soap just isn't ready yet. If you make soap in a silicone mold, and it doesn't gel, it can take several days before it's ready to unmold. If it gels, it can be removed the day after you make it. I just gently pull the sides away from the soap, and the ends, turn it upside down, and push with my thumbs, and it comes right out. Your mention of the problem with the corners makes me think that you're trying to get it out too soon. When you pull the sides away from the soap, if it sticks at all, it's not ready. And as for the tutorials on lining molds with freezer paper being complicated...well, that's why many of us use silicone!


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## shunt2011 (Oct 16, 2016)

I agree with navigator. I'm able to remove my soap easily from my silicone molds. 

I made soap yesterday morning and let it gel. I was unable to take them out last night. 

As stated, it will also depend on your recipe, water/liquid amount etc.  I do use Sodium Lactate at 2% which does help too. I have also used salt which makes it hard to make getting it out easier. 

Soap should release easy when it's ready


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## earlene (Oct 16, 2016)

The first few times I used my silicone loaf mold, I also had difficulty getting the soap out.  

For me, part of the problem was that this was something new I had never done before. It was an unlearned skill.  I really did not know how to judge when the soap was ready to come out of the mold AND I was new to using silicone molds for anything other than cake(and then only with limited experience removing cake from silicone molds.)  Soap is nothing like cake, btw. lol

Part of it was probably my recipe, too. But now I believe that is less important than recognizing when the soap is ready to come out. That comes with experience.

But there are a couple of things you can do to facilitate smoother removal until you have the experience under your belt.

1. Add sodium lactate per recommended usage 
2. CPOP
3. Use a release agent (I used lanolin successfully)
4. Put the mold in the freezer for a few minutes prior to release, then turn it upside down on top of your cutting surface, let sit a couple of minutes and unmold 
(There are probably others I am not remembering atm)

You can try any one of the above or more than one.

Eventually I learned to recognize when the soap was ready. I kept notes on each batch, including the recipe, which molds I used, method and how long before ready to unmold, any issues with cutting, etc.  But even with all those notes I now can see when my soap is ready or not ready to come out of the mold.  It just took time and practice.


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## Desirae (Oct 16, 2016)

navigator9 said:


> I think I must be missing something in your explanation of how you get your soap out of the silicone molds. It should not be difficult, actually just the opposite. If you're having trouble, it may be because the soap just isn't ready yet. If you make soap in a silicone mold, and it doesn't gel, it can take several days before it's ready to unmold. If it gels, it can be removed the day after you make it. I just gently pull the sides away from the soap, and the ends, turn it upside down, and push with my thumbs, and it comes right out. Your mention of the problem with the corners makes me think that you're trying to get it out too soon. When you pull the sides away from the soap, if it sticks at all, it's not ready. And as for the tutorials on lining molds with freezer paper being complicated...well, that's why many of us use silicone!


 Maybe I should wait a few additional hours before unmolding, what happens is, it feels nice and hard but when I pull the silicone away it sometimes seems to take longer to let go of it, then when I turn it upside down and push on the bottom, it's as if all the sides had vacuums sealed itself back to the soap so I have to go back and pull the silicone away from the soap again which feels like it wasn't done the 1st time, I hope this makes sense bc it does in my brain but not on the screen, lol. Good thing is I only have this problem when attempt to gel but not using the oven method, I primarily put most of my molds in the freezer or fridge bc they u old faster. I've noticed when I try to do the gel but not using the CPOP but hoping to gel that's when my edges rub off. I do use the sodium lactate when I remember to eek, but I need to try the salt and hope that works.


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## cmzaha (Oct 16, 2016)

Desirae said:


> I really just was trying to find out the difference btwn the silicone and wood, the reasoning behind all this is bc it seems to be alot cheaper to pay $18 for the mold I have which is silicone inside the wooden box, as apposed to say brambleberry  $80 wood mold for the same size as my $18 mold, so I just wanted to know why ppl buy those rather then the silicone I thought maybe there was something special about having to line the wood boxes, I just think it's insane to spend $80 for a wood box to have to line it and end up with creases leakage etc when you can pay 1/4 of the cost for a mold that has a silicone mold inside the wooden box and get perfect sides. That's all I was really wanting to know about the wood.
> 
> As for the CPOP I've read different sites about it so I wanted your alls opinion on how to so I don't screw it up a 2nd time. I wasn't arguing about how to do it that's why I asked how to correctly do it, I wasn't saying silicone was messing up CPOP, you did not read my originally posted correct, I just couldn't figure out why my edges were rubbing off and when that was happening had nothing to do with cpop'ing. my CPOP problem was that the top of my soap was bubbling and looked rubber like not bc my edges were rubbed off. I wasn't looking to get chewed out which is how you came across to me


A lot of it is preference on which type of mold to use and whether to line or not. I use hdpe molds that have to be line and do not mind. Making as much soap as I do I many times I do not have the luxury of my soap sitting in a mold for a few days, if my soap is still a little soft the next morning I can take it out of the mold and let it sit on a cutting board to continue letting it set up enough to cut. Bottom line is, you have to find what works for you


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