# Looking for wood in all the wrong places...



## makemineirish (Mar 13, 2017)

I hope the "titles" thread has a field day with that one.  In all fairness, I am not sure that there is any way to avoid the double entendre.  Now, onto the "meat" of my problem.

I have a soap that is still in the hypothetical stage.  I know the design, colors, name, story, and fragrance notes that I want.  Creating the scent is more difficult...and yet not too terrible.  I am not trying to duplicate a specific smell.  Rather, I just want to make something that I like from some specific components.  Therefore, I need an "oak".

Let's be honest, aside from some very aromatic tree species (pine/spruce, cedar, sandalwood), most wood is not that distinguishable from one another...particularly once I blend it.  My problem is that most oak/wood FOs are already heavily doctored with herbs, fruits, or florals.  I can certainly cope with some background notes.  However, most FOs relegate the wood to the background note.

Fragrance Oil Finder is driving me nuts by including EVERY option that mentions oak, wood, or woody (even if it is in the business name).  So I am throwing myself on the mercy of the forum.  Can any of you think of an FO that is predominantly woody/oaky?


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## bbrown (Mar 13, 2017)

Maybe you could go with an essential oil...???   Cedarwood and Cedarwood Atlas are both very strong, sometimes pungent.  I love them in blends with other essential oils and fragrance oils.  I've never tried to look for an oak EO but it's worth a shot.


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## toxikon (Mar 13, 2017)

I have an indie perfume called "Covered Bridge" that really captures a realistic foresty/wood scent. Maybe the description could point you in the right direction:



> Sixteen premium fragrance and essential oils bring the Bell's covered bridge to life.  Wood notes comprised of *Virginia Cedarwood EO*, *Alaskan Cypress Wood EO*, *Blue Cypress EO* and sandalwood meet earthy notes of patchouli, vetiver and musk. A cool blend of oakmoss, dirt, fir absolute and fern envelopes the dry wood notes and pairs well with a blend of sweet fall air, hay and wood smoke elements. Covered Bridge is a very smooth and evocative woodsy blend.



So perhaps a blend of the EOs above with the Dirt FO would do the trick. It'll definitely take some experimenting!


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## Susie (Mar 13, 2017)

Don't try Mandarin Oak from WSP.  Both the mandarin and the oak are back notes.  It isn't bad, but not descriptive.


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 13, 2017)

Cucumber Oak from Bramble Berry

https://www.brambleberry.com/Cucumber-Oak-Fragrance-Oil-P5613.aspx#reviews


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## makemineirish (Mar 13, 2017)

CeeMoor said:


> Cucumber Oak from Bramble Berry
> 
> https://www.brambleberry.com/Cucumber-Oak-Fragrance-Oil-P5613.aspx#reviews



I am loving that suggestion.  I could cope with some cucumber in the mix and it has the advantage of being from a vendor that I already order from (need dancing emoji).

Have you smelled it before?  Is cucumber oak particularly woody...or just a less fruity/floral iteration of cucumber?  Do you like it (subjective, I know).  I'm running off to search the Soap Scent Review Board and SoapMaking Forum Fragrance Chart for reviews.

Thank You!


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## makemineirish (Mar 13, 2017)

Susie said:


> Don't try Mandarin Oak from WSP.  Both the mandarin and the oak are back notes.  It isn't bad, but not descriptive.



Thanks!  It is just as important to know which ones to avoid.  One of my primary pet peeves with descriptions is that they fail to reflect proportion.  I really need a pie chart that signifies the relative prominence of the composite notes.  I always use Frangrantica's graphics as a guide when considering FOs that are perfume/cologne replications.  However, I am often at a loss when they are not.  So many soapers only mention performance notes in their reviews (acceleration, discoloration, etc).  That is helpful, but I really want to know what it SMELLS like.


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## makemineirish (Mar 13, 2017)

toxikon said:


> I have an indie perfume called "Covered Bridge" that really captures a realistic foresty/wood scent. Maybe the description could point you in the right direction:
> ...
> So perhaps a blend of the EOs above with the Dirt FO would do the trick. It'll definitely take some experimenting!



I specifically want to avoid all the aromatic trees that people are so familiar with like cedar, sandalwood, and spruce.  I wouldn't turn my nose up at any hardwood option as I am not sure that I (or anyone else) could easily distinguish between blondewood, poplar, beech, and mahogany.  Any lumber smell should work as a passable mimicry of "oak"...especially given how suggestive names themselves can be.

Unfortunately, most woody scents are heavy on the more fragrant trees.  Those that do incorporate "oak" or its compatriots are spiced and doctored to the point that they are not useful for me.

However, the addition of dirt FO is an interesting thought.  I already have some in my arsenal and am absolutely going to try a tester or sample bar to see how it goes : )


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## TheDragonGirl (Mar 13, 2017)

I haven't tried this myself, but have you considered https://www.mountainroseherbs.com/products/oakwood-absolute/profile ?


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## makemineirish (Mar 13, 2017)

TheDragonGirl said:


> I haven't tried this myself, but have you considered https://www.mountainroseherbs.com/products/oakwood-absolute/profile ?



I had not even discovered that yet to consider it.  The price is a bit precious, but I may not need much, particularly in a blend.  I will call MRH tomorrow to ask for some information on usage rates and concerns.

P.S. - Mountain Rose Herbs is also a vendor that I currently patronize!!!  I was prepared to suck it up and pay shipping on a single FO if needed, but am more than thrilled to find some solutions that do not require me to.

Thanks!


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## TheDragonGirl (Mar 13, 2017)

The good news is its an absolute! Those are usually far stronger than essential oils.


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## makemineirish (Mar 14, 2017)

TheDragonGirl said:


> The good news is its an absolute! Those are usually far stronger than essential oils.



Fair point!  I'm really loving the idea of having a straight oak to play with.  While a bit spendy, I should also have the reassurance that actually smells like what it is supposed to...which is not always the case with FOs.

Thanks again.


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 14, 2017)

TheDragonGirl said:


> The good news is its an absolute! Those are usually far stronger than essential oils.


This is true. I buy oakmoss absolute and dilute it in jojoba oil at 1/9 (10%) It's a staple in my fragrance arsenal... used to offset the odor of lard/tallow and it's an excellent base note for just about any thing. I don't why I didn't think of it earlier. It's very earthy.


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## makemineirish (Mar 15, 2017)

*Safe Usage Rate of Oakwood Absolute?*

Another forum member is sending me a sniffie of BB cucumber oak, but I  am pretty excited about the MRH Oakwood Absolute.  However, I am having  trouble finding usage rates for soap or bath and body.  I called  Mountain Rose Herbs only to be told that they are not herbalists and  cannot prescribe "dosages".

Do any of you have a credible source for the safe usage rate of oakwood absolute in soap and lotion?  There is not really much information out there.


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## cerelife (Mar 16, 2017)

I have BB's Cucumber Oak. Not a bad scent, but I don't get oak from it, or really much of anything woodsy. Could just be my nose, though.


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 16, 2017)

makemineirish said:


> Do any of you have a credible source for the safe usage rate of oakwood absolute in soap and lotion?  There is not really much information out there.



When using any essential oil, absolute, herb for the first time, it's a good idea to learn as much as you can about it. Not all EOs are alike. Some, like lavender, are benign; others can be dangerous; all have precautions. Your  supplier should have this info readily available. But if they don't, you can search IFRA + the EO to learn more.

My experience with MRH is they're great if you want to become an herbalist. They have wonderful instructional videos and online classes for that purpose, but I don't buy EOs from there -- too pricey for my pocketbook. When it comes to things like IFRA and use rates, IMO, it's best to buy from a supplier who posts that info with the essential oil.


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## makemineirish (Mar 16, 2017)

CeeMoor said:


> When using any essential oil, absolute, herb for the first time, it's a good idea to learn as much as you can about it. Not all EOs are alike. Some, like lavender, are benign; others can be dangerous; all have precautions. Your  supplier should have this info readily available. But if they don't, you can search IFRA + the EO to learn more.



Understood and agreed.  My current dilemma is that this is a fairly esoteric ingredient that is not listed on IFRA or any source that I have yet to find.  I have checked with the supplier (MRH) and relayed my frustration with their response.  Hence my question as to whether anyone was aware of a credible source detailing usage rates and contraindications of this material as it is not covered in any of the texts that I own.



CeeMoor said:


> My experience with MRH is they're great if you want to become an  herbalist. They have wonderful instructional videos and online classes  for that purpose, but I don't buy EOs from -- to pricey for my  pocketbook.



On this, I respectfully disagree.  It is one of my complaints regarding the company.  While I feel that they carry quality products, the information I have found provided by them is for the non-analytical hobbyist.  I find the information provided to be much more limited in scope than I would like, given that there are legitimate concerns with many essential oils.  One of my (admittedly many) pet peeves are people and/or companies that argue that natural is synonymous with safe and/or enviromentally-friendly. I also do not appreciate that their recipes (and by extension, usage rates) are all given in terms of "drops"...rather than weights.



CeeMoor said:


> IMO, it's  best to buy from a supplier who posts that info with the essential  oil.



I would be thrilled to find one


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 16, 2017)

makemineirish said:


> I would be thrilled to find one


I'm kinda slammed today. Hafta help hubby with his March Madness Bracket for one and a few other things that can't be put off any longer... take a bath, do wash, clean up after soapmaking project yesterday, etc. I'll go through my Files to see what's in there, but not any time soon


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## WeaversPort (Mar 16, 2017)

I haven't made any soaps, but I have had success with some fragrances from Bulk Apothecary. I can't vouch for these specific blends though. 

They have a "Wood Shop Fragrance" that might be worth checking out. At roughly $3 for 0.5 ounces, it could be a decent fallback. 

http://www.bulkapothecary.com/wood-shop-fragrance-oil/#reviews


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