# Olivem 1000



## Dean (Sep 8, 2018)

What are the comedogenic ratings of  Sorbitan Olivate and Cetearyl Olivate?  Its not coming up on google.


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## earlene (Sep 8, 2018)

Try this: 

https://hallstar-sds.thewercs.com/p...N~~EN~~2015-09-24 13:03:57~~OLIVEM® VS FEEL~~

https://roccocobotanicals.com/image/Roccoco-Botanicals-Comedogenic-Ingredients.pdf

and this:  https://www.beneficialbotanicals.com/comedogenic-rating/

As is not uncommon, sometimes there is more than one proper chemical name for an ingredient, and it looks like the Sorbitan Olivate is also called sorbitan oleate, and the cetearyl olivate is also called cetaryl oleate, but on the MSDS for olivem 1000-VS Feel, it lists cetearlyl alcohol.  Either way, that should help your search.  Or complicate it; I'm not sure which.


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## Dean (Sep 10, 2018)

The manufacturer informed me today that the product was tested by multiple testers resulting in comedogenic scores of .16-.56 and that that the product is "non-comedogenic".   Lotion Crafters spec sheet states:

_OLIVEM 1000 performs also as self-emulsifying system. This means that if OLIVEM
1000 is added with water, it may act both as emulsifier and as the only source of
fats.  The result is a very light gel-emulsion, containing a high amount of water, suitable for a wide range of application. Olivem 1000 is melted alone and added under fast agitation (stirring is not necessary) to water pre-heated at 60-70 °C.  In these cases the percentages of Olivem 1000 are between 5 to 10%, depending on the kind of viscosity and texture desired. Higher amount will provide a more consistent and nourishing creamy product, while at 5% you will get a “gel-cream” emulsion with a cool and light texture._​I'm going to order some today to make an "oil-free" facial cleanser/moisturizer!    I've been using Aveeno which is silicone based.   Silicone belongs in celebrities, not moisturizers.


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## cmzaha (Sep 11, 2018)

It can be a cranky emulsifier. I have had it work beautiful in some formulas and completely fair in others. Did you check to make sure it is compatible with an oil free? I do not remember without going through my notes what lotion formulas I had it fail in.


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## Dean (Sep 11, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> Did you check to make sure it is compatible with an oil free?


 
I’m hoping the self emulsifier recipie at 5% above with hydrosol a lil EO  and of course  a preservative.  will act as a light oil-free moisturizer/cleanser that can be applied with a cotton pad.  If Olivem  alone proves insufficient, I was thinking of adding a luxury oil at 10%.


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## Dean (Oct 12, 2018)

Hi all.

Olivem 1000 is suppose to be self emulsifying at 5%.  I tried to make a topical product of:
90% aqueous fluid (infused orange blossom water preserved with willow bark extract)
5% Olivem
5% sodium lactate 60% sol.

I melted the olivem.  Combined and heated the fluids, and then whisked the two together.  The olivem stuck to the container and whisk, and formed tiny balls in the fluid.  There was no emulsion.

Last time that I tried to use Olivem, it was similarly disasterous.

Help please!


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## Eepa (Oct 20, 2018)

I haven't tried it without oils but I have a face cream recipe that has always worked and emulsified without problems. It's gotten pretty complicated but originally it was mostly water, oils and Olivem 1000 with cetyl alcohol. =D  Original recipe is from a book Natural beauty by Karen Gilbert and the instructions for making are from there too. This process has always worked for me so I'm following it even if it takes more time.

Oil phase
       Olivem 1000 (3%)
       Cetyl alcohol (2%)
       Macadamia nut oil (5%)
       Evening primrose oil (5%)
       Saboderm TCC (5%)

Water phase
 Water (49%)
 Lavender hydrosol (20%)
Aloe vera 10x (2%)
 Allantoin (0,5%)

Cooling phase
      D-panthenol (2%)
     Silk protein (2%)
     Saboderm CV (2%)
    Vitamin E (1%)
    Green tea extract (0,5%) + 5 g water (from the water portion)
    Phenoxyethanol EHG (1%)


Weigh cetyl alcohol and Olivem 1000 into a beaker and melt in a water bath.
Add the oils and allow the mixture to completely melt again.
Weight the water phase ingredients into another beaker warm in the water bath.
Heat and hold both beakers at 70 degrees for 20 minutes.
Pour water phase slowly into the oils while mixing with a spoon. Continue mixing for 2 minutes.
Change spoon for a hand mixer and mix for 5 minutes.
Take the beaker out of the water bath and continue mixing until the mixture thickens.
Let it cool and add rest of the ingredients and mix well.
Some helpful tips:
Cetyl alcohol or xantham gum stabilize the emulsion and Swift Crafty Monkey recommends using one of those always with Olivem 1000 (IIRC, can't check at the moment). My recipe had cetyl alcohol in it and I have never tried any recipe without it when using Olivem 1000.

Make sure both your water and Olivem are the same temperature before mixing. I tend to warm both in the same waterbath so that's not usually a problem for me.

Olivem 1000 does need high shear mixing so if you are whisking it by hand, that't not going to work. I use hand mixer at maximum speed or very near after the initial hand mixing with a spoon.

Also pour your water into the Olivem 1000 and not the other way around. Especially if you are only using Olivem 1000 as otherwise you can't get most of the stuff poured as it will solidify onto the container walls.


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## cmzaha (Oct 20, 2018)

I also have a lotion I use Olivem 1000 in but I have also had several failures when using it. There are simply easier emulsifiers to use, and Susan has had problems with it, stating it is very unstable, so it is not just my opinion. I have tried several test lotions using Olivem 1000 that failed.


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## Eepa (Oct 20, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> I also have a lotion I use Olivem 1000 in but I have also had several failures when using it. There are simply easier emulsifiers to use, and Susan has had problems with it, stating it is very unstable, so it is not just my opinion. I have tried several test lotions using Olivem 1000 that failed.



Yeah, Susan doesn't really like it as it has failed her so often. And many others have complained about it but I started with it when first started making lotions and stuff. And I have very very rarely had a emulsion failure. I'm not sure what I'm doing differently but for me it has always been very reliable.


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## Dean (Oct 20, 2018)

Eepa said:


> I haven't tried it without oils but I have a face cream recipe that has always worked and emulsified without problems. It's gotten pretty complicated but originally it was mostly water, oils and Olivem 1000 with cetyl alcohol. =D  Original recipe is from a book Natural beauty by Karen Gilbert and the instructions for making are from there too. This process has always worked for me so I'm following it even if it takes more time.
> 
> Oil phase
> Olivem 1000 (3%)
> ...



Thx so much for the reply.  I tried your technique.  Unfortunately it failed again.  The emulifier formed tiny beads.  

I got it to work once with just emusifier and water.  If I add anything else, it fails.


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## Dean (Oct 21, 2018)

I just tried again following Eepa’s instructions above.  It failed (tiny olivem beads).  I could tell when I was stiring with the spoon it wasn’t emusifying.

My recipie...

Oil phase
2.8 g (5%) Olivem
8 drops EO 

Water Phase
37.8 hydrosol
10.4 aloe juice
2.8 sodium lactate
2.8 willow bark extract

I got it to work once with just olivem and water as a test but it fails with other ingedients.

Help?


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## cmzaha (Oct 21, 2018)

did you use a stick blender or hand mixer?


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## redhead1226 (Oct 21, 2018)

Dean said:


> I’m hoping the self emulsifier recipie at 5% above with hydrosol a lil EO  and of course  a preservative.  will act as a light oil-free moisturizer/cleanser that can be applied with a cotton pad.  If Olivem  alone proves insufficient, I was thinking of adding a luxury oil at 10%.



Have you considered a Micellar Water? I use Olivem 300 and works great. I use a cotton pad to apply and clean.


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## Dean (Oct 21, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> did you use a stick blender or hand mixer?



Hand mixer (one beater) cuz test batch was only 2 oz.



redhead1226 said:


> Have you considered a Micellar Water? I use Olivem 300 and works great. I use a cotton pad to apply and clean.



I have.  Was a lil afraid to use 300 cuz its a PEG which I hear is carcinogenic.  There were other solubolizers out there such as Naturem but they seem to be unavailable to hobbyists.


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## cmzaha (Oct 22, 2018)

If you check Hallstar formulas you will see a thickener such as Xanthan Gum  thickener (Aqueous) and /or Carrageenan is also used with the 1000. Also many of their formulas are using a co emulsifier. It does need a higher shear such as a stick blender not a mixer. Except for the one foot cream I make Olivem 1000 is not worth the hassle or risk of lost ingredients. Sorry I forgot you are making a high water product. I found all high water lotions failed


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## Dean (Oct 22, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> If you check Hallstar formulas you will see a thickener such as Xanthan Gum  thickener (Aqueous) and /or Carrageenan is also used with the 1000. Also many of their formulas are using a co emulsifier. It does need a higher shear such as a stick blender not a mixer. Except for the one foot cream I make Olivem 1000 is not worth the hassle or risk of lost ingredients. Sorry I forgot you are making a high water product. I found all high water lotions failed



Thanks. 

The time I got it to work with just olivem @ 5% and water, I used a hand whisk.  I'll give the stick blender a try before giving up.  I'm beginning to hate the stuff...



redhead1226 said:


> Have you considered a Micellar Water? I use Olivem 300 and works great. I use a cotton pad to apply and clean.



BTW...How much oil to use in your micellar water?


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## Dean (Nov 4, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> If you check Hallstar formulas you will see a thickener such as Xanthan Gum  thickener (Aqueous) and /or Carrageenan is also used with the 1000. Also many of their formulas are using a co emulsifier. It does need a higher shear such as a stick blender not a mixer. Except for the one foot cream I make Olivem 1000 is not worth the hassle or risk of lost ingredients. Sorry I forgot you are making a high water product. I found all high water lotions failed



As advised, I used a stick blender and finally got it to emulsify.  Thanks for the tip.  Unfortunately,  it partally seperated the next day.   Guess I can salvage by shakeNuse. Darn Olivem.


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## bahbah1182 (Nov 12, 2018)

I think you can heat the water and olivem together as one phase and it should come together fairly easy. I'll try and look up the formula but I believe it is on hallstars website. I found it, google olivem 1000 crystal skin. I was wrong it says to heat the water first and add the olivem. I made this a while back and it came together very easily with a stick blender and was stable for a long while after. I would start with 95 grams of water and 5 grams of olivem 1000 first just to get a feel. Then try it again with other amounts of additives subbed in for the water portion.


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## Dean (Dec 11, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> It can be a cranky emulsifier. I have had it work beautiful in some formulas and completely fair in others. Did you check to make sure it is compatible with an oil free? I do not remember without going through my notes what lotion formulas I had it fail in.



Hi.

Did you use a co-emulsifier?  Which one and how did it perform? I'm considering trying again with added xanthan gum.


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## Kathy Humphrey Hayes (Dec 12, 2018)

I wasted hundreds of dollars worth of ingredients last year trying to make different cremes and lotions with this stuff!  I was using Bramble Berry's Bio-Mulsion Wax which is the same thing.  I could not figure out why my cremes kept failing time after time, could not find info on "bio-mulsion" anywhere.... Then I finally figured out that bio-mulsion is the same thing as Olivem 1000 and had read all of Susan's comments about it and how she did not have good luck with it either and preferred to use Polawax.  

Every single batch I made separated. I was just learning how to make lotions and cremes and I thought it was my percentages/ingredients.  So I called BB and ran my recipes by them, and there was nothing wrong with the recipes I was using.  Well, I gave up trying to use this "PEG-free emulsifying wax that is plant derived, which comes from olive oil," (quoted from BB site) and switched it out for Polawax using the exact same recipes I was using and voila!!! Perfect cremes and lotions!  

So I called BB back and told them that it was the "au natural" e-wax that was causing it all to separate as the Polawax worked perfectly.  

As much as I would like to be able to use it, I refuse to ever try that stuff again. That was the biggest nightmare ever.  I literally wasted weeks of testing, reformulating, more testing, more reformulating, and hundreds of dollars of ingredients.  I had posted stories on my IG page about it as well.  

I can't give out my recipes as I am getting ready to launch my business, and I will be selling cremes using these recipes, but just know that I tried every possible combination with every type of ingredient you can imagine and then some....


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## Dean (Dec 12, 2018)

Kathy Humphrey Hayes said:


> I wasted hundreds of dollars worth of ingredients last year trying to make different cremes and lotions with this stuff!  I was using Bramble Berry's Bio-Mulsion Wax which is the same thing.  I could not figure out why my cremes kept failing time after time, could not find info on "bio-mulsion" anywhere.... Then I finally figured out that bio-mulsion is the same thing as Olivem 1000 and had read all of Susan's comments about it and how she did not have good luck with it either and preferred to use Polawax.
> 
> Every single batch I made separated. I was just learning how to make lotions and cremes and I thought it was my percentages/ingredients.  So I called BB and ran my recipes by them, and there was nothing wrong with the recipes I was using.  Well, I gave up trying to use this "PEG-free emulsifying wax that is plant derived, which comes from olive oil," (quoted from BB site) and switched it out for Polawax using the exact same recipes I was using and voila!!! Perfect cremes and lotions!
> 
> ...



I was thinking of  trying again with co-emulsifier xanthan gum.  Did you try XG or other co-emulsifier?


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## Kafayat Adebowale oyeniyi (Dec 13, 2018)

Hello ,please any recommendations on a wholesale website where i can get btms 25 in bulk in USA ....thank you


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## shunt2011 (Dec 13, 2018)

Kafayat Adebowale oyeniyi said:


> Hello ,please any recommendations on a wholesale website where i can get btms 25 in bulk in USA ....thank you



Soaper’s Choice. You can get 8 lbs


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## Kafayat Adebowale oyeniyi (Dec 15, 2018)

Please any leads on where i can learn how to make good emulsions.... body .lotions and creams aside youtube....


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## cmzaha (Dec 15, 2018)

One of my favorite emulsifiers is Hallstar NCD-20 which is the emulsifier that WSP sells as Soft & Silky. I do use a small percentage of Stearic Acid or Cetyl Alcohol with it and have never had a failed emulsion. It does give a fluffy look and feel, so if you do not like that it is better to use a different emulsifier.


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