# Few basic general questions



## MrDurden (Oct 15, 2014)

I've been making soap for a number of years. I learned from reading older books (my computer was down). 

Just making sure I'm doing things the ways I should be....

Lye and soap temps. I mix the two when the oils are 100 degrees and the lye is 120 degrees. Also interested in people doing some sort of ice bath to cool the lye down faster? I thought about making some sort of rack with a fan. And can lye be pre-mixed and re-heated up? I saw a video from Oregon Soap Company and they seemed to do something different with that step. 

I use Brambleberry 36 bar mold. I use standard freezer paper to line in. Lining the mold is a little time consuming so I'm wanting to see if there's a better way to do that. 

I keep the soap in the mold for 24-48 hours. Is that standard? 

And curing... 3-5 weeks I typically read. 

Thanks for any input.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 15, 2014)

Aren't you already selling? These should be things that you have down 100% before doing so, don't you think? Still.......

Lye and oils don't have to be a certain temperature when mixed or within x degrees of each other. Temperature can effect how long you have to work with the batter though. 

I wouldn't cool it down with a fan. A ice bath would work. You can master batch lye and use it as you need it, but as I understand, heating up again is not done. 

You could get a mould that doesn't need lining. Or find a quicker way to line. I can make a mould liner up in less than a minute. 

Leave the soap in the mould for precisely.......as much time as it needs! After making soap for so long, I know that you have seen that different recipes need more or less time before unmoulding and cutting. Find the right point for your soaps, because it might well be different from my soaps. 

Cures of 4 weeks are often considered a minimum but many people give it longer. Special soaps such as those high in OO need longer


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## MrDurden (Oct 15, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Aren't you already selling? These should be things that you have down 100% before doing so, don't you think? Still.......
> 
> Lye and oils don't have to be a certain temperature when mixed or within x degrees of each other. Temperature can effect how long you have to work with the batter though.
> 
> ...



I'm just wanting to verify things. Different sources say different things. I've never had a batch of soap that didn't come out (other than the one time I tried to make peppermint. I read that essential oil tends to be an issue). There's even people who don't use a lye calculator and use their tongue to know how much to add. I've read probably 10 books on the topic. And the method I use has worked fine to produce a great soap. 

They don't have to be a certain temperature meaning what? I'm assuming it's not advised to pour 180 degree lye into oils. Those temperatures were one of my biggest questions do to information varying soooo much on that. 

I've never seen a change with soap and needing to be in the mold for less time. 

Molds that don't need a liner? Like the plastic ones? I previously used an 18 bar mold I got off eBay. It was so incredibly hard to get the bars off the bottom. And the information I got from that guy was horrible according to the people on this board when I asked.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 15, 2014)

But you have read on here people saying "I soap with oil and lye at room temperature" or "I put the hot lye on to my solid oils to melt them"?the actual temperature that each batch is made it will vary based on what you're trying to achieve and your personal preference within limits. 

Personally, I HP so I tend to go with it hot anyway.  

Regarding moulds, have you never seen the silicone moulds at all?


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## Susie (Oct 15, 2014)

NaOH solution can be master batched.  That means you can make a big batch and use what you need when you need it.  Just be sure it is in a container that can be securely closed and is safe to store in.  I can't tell you how to properly use this as I have never used this method.  I believe there is at least one video on YouTube.  Here is the link for the one I remembered:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-MGBLfMiLo[/ame]

You do not need to put a fan on the NaOH solution because you do *not* want to blow the fumes all over the room.  If you don't want to master batch, why not mix it the night before you intend to use it?  Again, be sure it can be closed securely and stored safely.

I use the heat transfer method.  I use my hot NaOH solution to melt my solid oils, then once melted, I add that to the liquid oils(including the EOs).  But I do not do swirls.  Just solid colored soap.  I assure you that my NaOH solution is a great deal hotter than 180F when I pour it into the solid oils.  I will test the temperature the next time I make soap, but I need an oven mitt with an additional pot holder to hold that container to pour it.  And I routinely use bare hands to test food doneness in a 400F oven.  If you are swirling, you need to soap cooler than this to not have such a fast trace.  

How long it stays in the mold is determined by your recipe, and how hard it gets in what period of time.  I generally remove mine in 18-24 hours and cut it.  

I can't help you with mold lining.  I have never used that particular mold.  But I am with TEG, have you never used a silicone mold and cut the soap?  Silicone requires no lining.  

And I must say, it is rather worrisome for me(who does not sell soap, and considers herself still learning) to be answering questions for someone who does sell.


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## Tilia (Oct 15, 2014)

Thanks for this link, I didn't know which plastics were suitable for mixing lye, and thanks to this I can check it.


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## IrishLass (Oct 15, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> You can master batch lye and use it as you need it, but as I understand, heating up again is not done.


 
 Actually, you can heat it up again if you need to. I master-batch a 50/50 solution and heat portions of it up as needed for my batches of soap. 

 Basically, I weigh enough cool/room temp lye solution out for my batch into a Rubbermaid measuring cup, cover the cup securely with plastic wrap, and then I place the covered cup inside a larger/wider container filled with hot water until the solution warms up to around 100F/38C. 

 IrishLass


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## Lion Of Judah (Oct 15, 2014)

MrDurden said:


> There's even people who don't use a lye calculator and use their tongue to know how much to add. I've read probably 10 books on the topic. And the method I use has worked fine to produce a great soap.



could you please explain this method to me for its the 1st time i am ever hearing about it


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## Susie (Oct 15, 2014)

You know, I really am a proponent of zap testing soap, but not using a lye calculator at all....not me.  I am not sticking my tongue anywhere near a soap made without some sort of lye calculator in use at the point of weighing ingredients.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 15, 2014)

He might well be referring to the older methods/using self-made lye where we can't use a calculator but rather adding in oils and cooking, testing it and then adding more and so on.


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## Susie (Oct 15, 2014)

Could be, but...eek!  We have lovely, easy to use lye calculators now!


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## DeeAnna (Oct 15, 2014)

Lion -- The Gent is right -- it was used by commercial soap makers a century ago and possibly by people today who are making soap with a "boiled" method. They taste (aka zap test) the soap during the boiling process to see if it is "sharp" or not. That is how they learned whether the soap needs more fat or more lye. 

It's not going to be a technique I would recommend to anyone making CP or HP soap as we typically do it. First of all, there is the safety risk of tasting soap while it is saponifying. The second is that this technique is not useful with modern CP or HP methods -- the soap moves far too fast, especially when soaping with a stick blender. It is best used with an hours-long boiled technique. 

A soap recipe calculator is a far safer and more practical alternative. Zap test if you will ... but after saponification is over.


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## Lion Of Judah (Oct 16, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> He might well be referring to the older methods/using self-made lye where we can't use a calculator but rather adding in oils and cooking, testing it and then adding more and so on.


even then you had methods to test the strength of your lye .i.e; feather test and the egg test . but putting your tongue on/in lye water to test its strength does not sound wise to me



DeeAnna said:


> Lion -- The Gent is right -- it was used by commercial soap makers a century ago and possibly by people today who are making soap with a "boiled" method. They taste (aka zap test) the soap during the boiling process to see if it is "sharp" or not. That is how they learned whether the soap needs more fat or more lye.
> 
> It's not going to be a technique I would recommend to anyone making CP or HP soap as we typically do it. First of all, there is the safety risk of tasting soap while it is saponifying. The second is that this technique is not useful with modern CP or HP methods -- the soap moves far too fast, especially when soaping with a stick blender. It is best used with an hours-long boiled technique.
> 
> A soap recipe calculator is a far safer and more practical alternative. Zap test if you will ... but after saponification is over.



DeeAnna thanks for that information [ you get a triple kudos from me , always! , for you take my learning to a higher level ] it sounded funny/weird to me , for when i did research way back when on how the early settlers made lye water (potash) for soap i remembered that they could have tested it with a feather or egg. they were some brave souls back then to test it with their tongue . 
Again , thank you for your informative reply  it made me happy



Lion Of Judah said:


> even then you had methods to test the strength of your lye .i.e; feather test and the egg test . but putting your tongue on/in lye water to test its strength does not sound wise to me



i understand it now


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## MrDurden (Oct 17, 2014)

Watching that master batch lye video. That's interesting. So it's a concentrated lye solution. But suggested to only use as much as you can use in a week? Hmmm. Waiting for the lye to cool is the single biggest use of time when making soap for me. I pre-weigh my oils so I don't have to worry about all that when I'm actually making soap. 

I make two batches in about 3 total hours. I offset the batches by 10 mins. 

I wouldn't store or make lye in a plastic container though.


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## new12soap (Oct 17, 2014)

MrDurden said:


> I wouldn't store or make lye in a plastic container though.



Why not? In what would you store it?


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## CanaDawn (Oct 17, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> You could get a mould that doesn't need lining. Or find a quicker way to line. I can make a mould liner up in less than a minute.



With a 36 bar mould, that's still a half hour...

Sometimes with difficult moulds, putting the whole thing in the freezer briefly will shrink the soap away from the mould enough to make removing it relatively easy.


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## MrDurden (Oct 17, 2014)

new12soap said:


> Why not? In what would you store it?



I use as little plastic as possible with everything. And I never use plastic when heat is involved. I use glass when I can.


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## MrDurden (Oct 17, 2014)

I watched this video today. Didn't realize you should freeze milk or beer when making those soaps. I'd like to do some in the future as to why I was researching. 

What about freezing water to add the sodium hydroxide too? This would keep the lye temperature MUCH lower. To the point where where I could use it as soon as it was mixed. 

There's really no problem with different temperatures with lye and oils? I've read so so so many times to keep them 20 degrees apart. By oils will always be around 100 degrees due to the melting of the solid oils. Room temp lye to 100 degree oil???

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0Gq3aEi8_U&list=UU6NFc1XyVdzuyQw-f9HG42g[/ame]


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## CanaDawn (Oct 18, 2014)

MrDurden said:


> I use as little plastic as possible with everything. And I never use plastic when heat is involved. I use glass when I can.



Well, make sure you're very aware of what that glass is made out of, in that case. 

Loose cannon, anyone?



MrDurden said:


> I use Brambleberry 36 bar mold.



Soooo....this would be the one with plastic dividers?

There's something wrong/off here. I can't put my finger on it, but it's really unsettling me, combined with the ingredients thread.


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## cmzaha (Oct 18, 2014)

I master batch my lye solution in #2 hdpe buckets, set in the sink in case the bucket decides to be naughty and spring a hole. In five years it has not happened and my buckets are at least 3 yrs old. I also store in #2 hdpe bottles with naught problems. I would Not trust glass when making  1or 2 gallons of 50/50 lye solution. 
Speaking of 50/50 solution remember you take your lye requirement and double the number when using your solution since 50% is lye and 50% is water. Then you add in the balance of liquid, which I always add directly into my oils before adding the lye solution. 
This is a bit of an odd thread from someone soaping for several yrs. These should be questions posed by a newbie not an experienced soapmaker.


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## Susie (Oct 18, 2014)

I truly do add extremely hot lye solution to solid oils to melt them, then that mixture immediately into liquid oils.  It is now the only way I mix my soaps.  It just saves a whole bunch of time.  But it is a fast trace, and if you use a lot of heat producing ingredients, you have to keep a very close eye out to prevent volcano action.

This is not the first thread we have had that seemed off.  And at least this person is polite enough not to demand someone answer them immediately(anyone?) in the middle of the night for us.  Or demanding whole recipes including scents and colorants.  I know that people get busy and fall into ruts of doing the same thing over and over.  Sometimes it is good to stop and look around to find out that you can do something better and/or easier.


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## new12soap (Oct 18, 2014)

MrDurden said:


> I use as little plastic as possible with everything. And I never use plastic when heat is involved. I use glass when I can.



When I made my own masterbatch I stored it in plastic, and now that I buy it from a chem supply company, it comes in plastic. Nice, heavy duty, sturdy, _chemical and heat resistant_ plastic.

Please be aware that even borosilicate glass is vulnerable to extreme temperature changes and can and will etch over time. There have been numerous reports of soapers that used a pyrex measuring cup to mix their lye right up until the cup exploded. Why take the chance? I would _never_ use glass as a storage vessel for lye, far too dangerous if you just knocked it over. You would need something that will contain the caustic safely, have a tight closing lid, that you can clearly label and store in a safe place.

Yes, you can freeze water to use to mix lye. The purpose of freezing milk is to prevent burning of the sugars, the purpose of freezing beer is to prevent volcano when you add the lye. In both methods the lye is added to the frozen substance a very little bit at a time and dissolved completely before the next addition. MUCH more time consuming IMO than just adding lye to room temp water.


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## CanaDawn (Oct 18, 2014)

(fwiw, it was no different when the OP was Jamison on this forum from 2010-2014.  I'm a bit more surprised at the questions being asked, after learning how long they've been participating here (and selling).  Maybe it's just me.)

OP - I would suggest learning how to run a good search on this forum, as a lot of the questions you have are ones that have been really well addressed by the generous expert soapers on this forum.  That way you can decide whose advice you want to follow, and see what has already been discussed over the years.  Saves time waiting on the whole topic to unfold again, too, if you're wanting quick answers.


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## MrDurden (Oct 18, 2014)

CanaDawn said:


> Soooo....this would be the one with plastic dividers?
> 
> There's something wrong/off here. I can't put my finger on it, but it's really unsettling me, combined with the ingredients thread.



I try to use it as little as possible. What is your deal? Are you that board in life? 

And I asked about using better quality ingredients. That's unsettling to you? What's unsettling is how few people actually care about putting the best ingredients they can into the products they make.

I don't use this board very often because of the s*** people give others here. It's like a Jr High girl's bathroom. I'm here to learn about soap making. Not having people question every little detail about what I'm doing in life. Get over it, move on. If you don't have input for what I asked then don't reply. You're clogging up my thread with things that aren't relevant to what I'm asking. It's disrespectful. 

Soap trolls be gone.



Susie said:


> I truly do add extremely hot lye solution to solid oils to melt them, then that mixture immediately into liquid oils. It is now the only way I mix my soaps. It just saves a whole bunch of time. But it is a fast trace, and if you use a lot of heat producing ingredients, you have to keep a very close eye out to prevent volcano action.
> 
> This is not the first thread we have had that seemed off. And at least this person is polite enough not to demand someone answer them immediately(anyone?) in the middle of the night for us. Or demanding whole recipes including scents and colorants. I know that people get busy and fall into ruts of doing the same thing over and over. Sometimes it is good to stop and look around to find out that you can do something better and/or easier.



That is very interesting. Thank you for the input. Saving time is what I'm trying to do. This older school method takes more time than it needs to. 

So are all your oils in one pot (hard and liquid oils) and you add the near 180 degree lye solution to it? That seems like I could drop 45 mins (guessing) off the time it takes to produce a batch. 

And thank you for understanding why I'm here asking my questions. I truly appreciate it. Learning is an ongoing process.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 18, 2014)

MrDurden said:


> That is very interesting. Thank you for the input. Saving time is what I'm trying to do. This older school method takes more time than it needs to.
> 
> So are all your oils in one pot (hard and liquid oils) and you add the near 180 degree lye solution to it? That seems like I could drop 45 mins (guessing) off the time it takes to produce a batch.



Letting the lye water cool down naturally or in a cold water bath is not really "older school" but is just a different way that actually doesn't work for all people in all instances with all recipes - as Susie pointed out.  For those who want to spend a lot of time with colours and so on, for instance, this method is not ideal.



MrDurden said:


> And thank you for understanding why I'm here asking my questions. I truly appreciate it. Learning is an ongoing process.



My issue, one shared by many here from what I read, is that you are asking these questions while selling your soap to people.  People who most likely take it for granted that you have at least half an idea of what soaping is all about.  If you were one of your customers and you were reading the sorts of questions that have been asked in this thread, would YOU be happy having bought a soap from this person?


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## MrDurden (Oct 18, 2014)

I understand your point that you've already made. And I have more than half an idea about soap making. Soap making is thousands of years old. It's not rocket science to make. How many of us on here are master chemists? There's always something to learn (yes, I'm being extreme with the master chemist reference). I make a great product and had zero complaints with in. People love it. It's hand-crafted soap. We all know what that is like. And I'm sure we've all gotten feedback from people who are use to regular "soap" who absolutely love what us soap makers produce. I give away more than I sell anyway. I enjoy making soap and am very interested in the process and learning more and more about it.


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## lsg (Oct 18, 2014)

MrDurden said:


> I try to use it as little as possible. What is your deal? Are you that board in life?
> 
> And I asked about using better quality ingredients. That's unsettling to you? What's unsettling is how few people actually care about putting the best ingredients they can into the products they make.
> 
> ...


Au contraire!  We are one of the more friendly forums on the Internet.  If you don't like what someone is posting, put them on your "Ignore" list.


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## MrDurden (Oct 18, 2014)

lsg said:


> Au contraire!  We are one of the more friendly forums on the Internet.  If you don't like what someone is posting, put them on your "Ignore" list.



My scenarios would make me disagree. And I don't come here that often because of how discouraging people are on here. I've been trolled numerous times. 

Ignore list!???? I wasn't aware of that. Can they still see what I post? There's a number of people I'd love to block on here.


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## lsg (Oct 18, 2014)

They can see what you post, but you cannot see what they are posting.  If you don't get along with another member or are upset by what they post, it is a good option to use.  That way you don't get upset by their replies.  I disagree about our members being discouraging.  They offer valid and valuable advise to those who want to learn.  If you get upset when someone disagrees with you, then you are going to be upset in life.  People disagree, that is life.  If someone offends you, why not just let it go? Going off on a rant about how bad you are treated here won't win friends or influence people for the good.


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## MrDurden (Oct 18, 2014)

It's not a matter of disagreeing. It's a matter of trolling and posting things that have absolutely no relevance to the questions being asked. There's a distinct difference. As for the example of using glass (rather not using glass). That was good information. I have only ever mixed lye in stainless pots.


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## lsg (Oct 18, 2014)

If more bickering is found on this thread, it will be closed.


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## DWinMadison (Oct 18, 2014)

I'm a little nervous about master-batching because I'm paranoid that I'll forget about it and some innocent future human will find it in an archeological dig of my house and drink it. Is that extreme?  Seriously, if you master batch lye when can you put a lid on it?  Does it have to be fully reacted first?


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## Susie (Oct 18, 2014)

MrDurden said:


> That is very interesting. Thank you for the input. Saving time is what I'm trying to do. This older school method takes more time than it needs to.
> 
> So are all your oils in one pot (hard and liquid oils) and you add the near 180 degree lye solution to it? That seems like I could drop 45 mins (guessing) off the time it takes to produce a batch.
> 
> And thank you for understanding why I'm here asking my questions. I truly appreciate it. Learning is an ongoing process.



I have my solid oils in one container, then my liquid oils in a separate one.  I find that the liquid oils cool the lye solution too much to melt the solid ones quickly.  By separating them, I shave a good 20 min off the process.  I usually go from mixing NaOH/water to pouring into the mold in about 20 min tops.


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## jwitte (Oct 18, 2014)

I have made some batches of cp soap without the temps being a certain temperature. I did room temp and it worked fine.


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## cmzaha (Oct 18, 2014)

DWinMadison said:


> I'm a little nervous about master-batching because I'm paranoid that I'll forget about it and some innocent future human will find it in an archeological dig of my house and drink it. Is that extreme? Seriously, if you master batch lye when can you put a lid on it? Does it have to be fully reacted first?


I store mine in gallon jugs that originally contained a commcial grade dish detergent and comes with a child proof top. I leave mine in the sink with a loose cover until cool and I know there is no leakage. This way I will not forget to put the lid on them. Actually I have never had a bottle leak. Then Lye is written in red and a big red x. I have two young grand kids and both have known since toddlers not to touch anything bottle, jug, bucket etc that has a big red x. I can draw a skull and cross bones but the red x has always worked well. I showed each one what happens to a piece of raw hamburger when dropped in a jug with lye. They do not go near any red x's!! I do also move them out when they are here, but I like children to learn.


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## CanaDawn (Oct 18, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> My issue, one shared by many here from what I read, is that you are asking these questions while selling your soap to people.  People who most likely take it for granted that you have at least half an idea of what soaping is all about.  If you were one of your customers and you were reading the sorts of questions that have been asked in this thread, would YOU be happy having bought a soap from this person?



That's actually an interesting way to look at it, and clarifies for me my feelings in this thread and the other quite a bit.  The responses to your posting this do the rest.


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## cmzaha (Oct 18, 2014)

CanaDawn said:


> That's actually an interesting way to look at it, and clarifies for me my feelings in this thread and the other quite a bit. The responses to your posting this do the rest.


EG had a very good answer


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## IrishLass (Oct 20, 2014)

DWinMadison said:


> I'm a little nervous about master-batching because I'm paranoid that I'll forget about it and some innocent future human will find it in an archeological dig of my house and drink it. Is that extreme? Seriously, if you master batch lye when can you put a lid on it? Does it have to be fully reacted first?


 
 I mix mine in a PP#5 (recycle code) container, and once it is all dissolved I cover with its lid and let it sit somewhere safe to cool down. Once cool, I then transfer the cooled solution to an HDPE container for long-term storage (a re-purposed laundry detergent bottle with a no-dip spout and cover), which I've marked all over in black Sharpie marker with drawings of skull & crossbones and the words "50% Lye Solution" and "Poison".

 IrishLass


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## MrDurden (Oct 21, 2014)

Susie said:


> I have my solid oils in one container, then my liquid oils in a separate one.  I find that the liquid oils cool the lye solution too much to melt the solid ones quickly.  By separating them, I shave a good 20 min off the process.  I usually go from mixing NaOH/water to pouring into the mold in about 20 min tops.



I pre-weigh ingredinets and they are in separate containers. So next time I make soap I'll give this a try. Putting the lye/water together then using that to melt the solid oils. Then pour the liquid oils in.


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## Susie (Oct 21, 2014)

MrDurden said:


> I pre-weigh ingredinets and they are in separate containers. So next time I make soap I'll give this a try. Putting the lye/water together then using that to melt the solid oils. Then pour the liquid oils in.



As you are going to be moving your lye solution through all three containers(you must add the lye/solid oil mixture to the liquid oils, not the liquid oils to the lye/solid oil mixture), you need to be absolutely sure all containers are safe for the lye to be in.  I bought additional containers to be able to do this method.  You sell, so you probably already have plenty.


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## MrDurden (Oct 22, 2014)

Susie said:


> As you are going to be moving your lye solution through all three containers(you must add the lye/solid oil mixture to the liquid oils, not the liquid oils to the lye/solid oil mixture), you need to be absolutely sure all containers are safe for the lye to be in.  I bought additional containers to be able to do this method.  You sell, so you probably already have plenty.




My oils are stored in food-grade plastic containers I get from a restaurant supply store. I've only mixed lye in stainless steel. So my pot for soap making gets the solid oils (where I put on low heat to melt them) and then add the liquid oils. Then the lye/water mix. But now I will try it with putting the solid liquids in the soap pot (as usual) then add the lye/water mix that I made in another stainless pot right after it's mixed to melt the solid oils. Then add the liquid oils. 

Selling is something I do very little of. Just want to make that clear. I give away most everything I make. That whole thing got blown out of context on here.


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## Susie (Oct 22, 2014)

If you add the oils to the lye solution, you could splash that lye solution all over.  That's why everyone tells you to add the lye solution to the solid oils,  and then to the liquid oils.  I can tell you from personal experience that even though you try to be careful and slow, you are going to get in a hurry and dump quickly at least once.  And that once lands who knows how much lye solution where it does no good.  Then you have to start over with the lye solution to have a good soap(after cleaning up).  It is just not worth it to do it the other way.

You may want to check the bottom of those food grade containers to see what they are made of.  If it has a 2 or a 5 in the little triangle, you could use one of those to do the final step of mixing the lye/solid oil mixture to the liquid oil.


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