# Get off my a$$ about lard!



## DWinMadison (Oct 29, 2014)

I'm glad to see so many of you putting lard in your soaps.  It's a great ingredient, but has gotten such a bad wrap that I think people tend to shy away from it as well as other animal fats, like my preference, beef tallow (GV shortening) in soap making.  If find many people somehow translate their negative views of lard as a food/cooking method to their views of applying it their skin.  Do you guys find that as well?  I don't sell soap, but I've given it as gifts and sometimes people look a little of-put when they ask "what's in it?" and I list words like lard or tallow.  I've even been tempted to use the word "manteca" just to make it less offensive.  I also find there to be a general feeling that animal fat is somehow inferior, "cheaper" products in soap making.  Thoughts?


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## Susie (Oct 29, 2014)

Most people I give my soap to do not ask what is in it.  And I use lard in the 55% range routinely.  I adore what it does to soap!
The two(my kids) who do ask are making sure I put lard in there, LOL.  I have had one friend ask what was in there, and I discussed the EO blend.  They were perfectly happy with that info.


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## shunt2011 (Oct 29, 2014)

I have a several that are made with lard.  I find those do not sell as well as my all veggie soaps.  However, it seems to depend on where I am selling.  If I sell 3 hours north of me ( I do 3 shows) it's not a problem as there is a lot of hunting.


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## DWinMadison (Oct 29, 2014)

On the up side, I think lard is making a dietary comeback.  Here's a couple of redemptive articles.

http://www.foodandwine.com/articles/lard-the-new-health-food

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/28/cooking-with-lard-baking_n_5212804.html

Every good southern cook used to keep a can of bacon drippings next to the stove or in the fridge.  My mama sure did, and it made awesome biscuits and cornbread!


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## lionprincess00 (Oct 29, 2014)

I spend three days and several hours rendering my own tallow until it's completely white and hard as a rock with nothing but clear water separating by the final render. It is completely scent free as well. It's a luxury in my opinion in that I spend so much time and effort doing this and have a wonderful final product. I'm proud of it and wouldn't hesitate to tell someone as such seeing as I put so much work into it. That, and my best soaps have a ton of tallow in it. Don't like it? Move along then  lard I'm sure is also awesome. Just had to give my 2 cents on the animal fat thing.


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## DWinMadison (Oct 29, 2014)

Susie said:


> Most people I give my soap to do not ask what is in it. And I use lard in the 55% range routinely. I adore what it does to soap!
> The two(my kids) who do ask are making sure I put lard in there, LOL. I have had one friend ask what was in there, and I discussed the EO blend. They were perfectly happy with that info.


 
I think most people are intrigued when you tell you MADE soap, so they naturally ask questions. Most are then surprised to learn that soap is made with any sort of fat at all. And to be fair, it is fairly counter-intuitive. We've been so conditioned to believe fat = bad that a lot of folks just can't get past it.



lionprincess00 said:


> I spend three days and several hours rendering my own tallow until it's completely white and hard as a rock with nothing but clear water separating by the final render. It is completely scent free as well. It's a luxury in my opinion in that I spend so much time and effort doing this and have a wonderful final product. I'm proud of it and wouldn't hesitate to tell someone as such seeing as I put so much work into it. That, and my best soaps have a ton of tallow in it. Don't like it? Move along then  lard I'm sure is also awesome. Just had to give my 2 cents on the animal fat thing.


 
You go pioneer woman! I want to live in the tent next to yours when the zombie apocalypse comes!!!


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## Susie (Oct 29, 2014)

lionprincess00 said:


> I spend three days and several hours rendering my own tallow until it's completely white and hard as a rock with nothing but clear water separating by the final render. It is completely scent free as well. It's a luxury in my opinion in that I spend so much time and effort doing this and have a wonderful final product. I'm proud of it and wouldn't hesitate to tell someone as such seeing as I put so much work into it. That, and my best soaps have a ton of tallow in it. Don't like it? Move along then  lard I'm sure is also awesome. Just had to give my 2 cents on the animal fat thing.



My closest source of tallow is a butcher an hour from here.  All the butchers in town sell their beef fat to some company.  And since it is hunting season, there is no one willing to give/sell beef fat .  I am sure tallow works as well as lard, I just don't have easy access to it.


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## DWinMadison (Oct 29, 2014)

Susie said:


> My closest source of tallow is a butcher an hour from here.  All the butchers in town sell their beef fat to some company.  And since it is hunting season, there is no one willing to give/sell beef fat .  I am sure tallow works as well as lard, I just don't have easy access to it.



Original Walmart GV shortening has a large % of beef tallow in it.  The other main ingredient is Palm.  Now bad could that be? It works great as in ingredient in your soaps.


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## Obsidian (Oct 29, 2014)

Susie, if you can get a hold of some deer or bear fat, do it. It makes the best tallow and is well worth the time spent rendering it.

I use lard in nearly all my soap, luckily no one in this area really seems to care. If someone did have issues with it, they can get their soap somewhere else.


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## DWinMadison (Oct 29, 2014)

I'm not suggesting that we be defensive about it.  I'm merely suggesting that in a largely urban world, where all things "fat" are demonized that we need to 1) not apologize for using animal fats in soap and 2) educate folk about the many benefits of animal fats.  Plus, I thought the "lard a$$" reference was kinda funny.


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## lenarenee (Oct 29, 2014)

So lard is in the process of redemption! That's great! 

The cool thing is we soapmakers of the world can be part of its redefinition. It's a rare occasion when someone asks me what's in the soap, and should they freeze up at hearing the L word, I wax historic - mentioning how our forefathers used lard and tallow soap to wash our ancestors at Plymouth and Williamsburg.  (Insert patriotic music here) Lard and tallow were fundamental ingredients in making soap, and today we can add other wholesome ingredients like essentials oils and shea butter to the improve the classic recipe. 

And if that doesn't work, go into the green thing.


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## lenarenee (Oct 29, 2014)

DWinMadison said:


> Original Walmart GV shortening has a large % of beef tallow in it.  The other main ingredient is Palm.  Now bad could that be? It works great as in ingredient in your soaps.



Thanks for mentioning that. I've been curious about trying tallow,  but not willing to render my own or buy from etsy. I'm going to look for that next time I have to pick up so early lard.


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## Seawolfe (Oct 29, 2014)

I've only had a few people hesitate at my lard soaps, but once they try they ask for it again. Im pretty sure my semi kosher/vegan mother in law would balk at it, but her gourmet husband wont


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## lionprincess00 (Oct 29, 2014)

DWinMadison said:


> I think most people are intrigued when you tell you MADE soap, so they naturally ask questions. Most are then surprised to learn that soap is made with any sort of fat at all. And to be fair, it is fairly counter-intuitive. We've been so conditioned to believe fat = bad that a lot of folks just can't get past it.
> 
> 
> 
> You go pioneer woman! I want to live in the tent next to yours when the zombie apocalypse comes!!!



No comment.



Sorry Susie. That really is crummy. I have a butcher I go to once a week. They have more than enough for me. They don't charge now, and fingers crossed they don't get wind of the fact they could charge and people would pay for it! Shhh, did I say it out loud?


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## marilynmac (Oct 29, 2014)

I gave some bars of soap to my neighbor.  When I told him I was making soap, his eyes lit up and he asked "Like with lard?"   He was so happy to get real lard soap.  

Traditional is a good word for it, maybe.


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## DWinMadison (Oct 29, 2014)

lenarenee said:


> So lard is in the process of redemption! That's great!
> 
> The cool thing is we soapmakers of the world can be part of its redefinition. It's a rare occasion when someone asks me what's in the soap, and should they freeze up at hearing the L word, I wax historic - mentioning how our forefathers used lard and tallow soap to wash our ancestors at Plymouth and Williamsburg.  (Insert patriotic music here) Lard and tallow were fundamental ingredients in making soap, and today we can add other wholesome ingredients like essentials oils and shea butter to the improve the classic recipe.
> 
> And if that doesn't work, go into the green thing.



That makes me want to stand up and eat apple pie...with a lard crust.


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## snappyllama (Oct 29, 2014)

Lard is just awesome in soaps and in food! 

We use store bought lard for pie crusts and dumplings. One of the first things I bought for my kitchen when just starting out was a grease saver (the kind with the little filter holes on top) to save my bacon grease.   The bacon grease is used to make roux (for various Cajun dishes and cream gravy).  I also use it to make chicken fried steak... mmm.  We don't eat any of those things very often.  But if you're going to do something, it should be delicious.  

Crisco and margarine aren't great for you either... they just had good marketing campaigns.


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## lenarenee (Oct 29, 2014)

Ooooh. That's the ticket! Convert the naysayers with a great bar of lard soap and slice of pie with lard crust!! Putty in our hands!


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## lenarenee (Oct 29, 2014)

marilynmac said:


> I gave some bars of soap to my neighbor.  When I told him I was making soap, his eyes lit up and he asked "Like with lard?"   He was so happy to get real lard soap.
> 
> Traditional is a good word for it, maybe.



Traditional is an  excellent word for it! 
Time honored tradition.


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## DWinMadison (Oct 29, 2014)

It's not just "the other white meat" anymore.


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## Cindy2428 (Oct 29, 2014)

Though still in my rather intense learning phase, I think it it comes down to education. I'd give them a blind sample of a vegan soap to compare to lard/tallow soap with the promise they get back to you of which they liked better and why. Here in Indiana in hunting country, my mechanics in the shop would most definitely go for the animal fat soap. My stereotypical mindset of a "Hollywood Vegan", not so much.


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## AMyers (Oct 29, 2014)

My husband is an elk hunter.  I SO wanted him to bring some elk fat home and render to make a soap.  He forgot.  Sigh.  Maybe next year.  I am on a mission to find lard and tallow local to me.  Looks like I have to drive 20 minutes to get tallow.  I haven't found lard without a bunch of additives yet, but I haven't checked Wal Fart yet.  I'll do just about anything to avoid setting foot in there!


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## snappyllama (Oct 29, 2014)

Check your regular grocery store. They keep is hidden away on bottom shelves most of the time.  I also avoid Walmart like the plague - though the one near me now isn't nearly as bad as the ones in Houston were... bleh.


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## KatieShephard (Oct 29, 2014)

I used lard in my soap for the first time a few weeks ago.  I'm never going back!  It's so conditioning...I would recommend it for anyone, like me, who struggles with dry skin in the winter.

Try it.  Just once.  If you don't like it, you can send your bars to me 

Edit:  although my local WalMart carries it, it was cheaper from Wegmans.


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## Earthen_Step (Oct 29, 2014)

I personally hate the massive meat industry and choose not to support it.  If I were to use lard/tallow I would purchase it from local farms I trust and like.  I'm also not in love with "conventional" farming methods and buy organic/sustainable for everything I can justify.  I plan on migrating to 100% organic at some point, at least for the oils (I'm almost there).  I just think a lot of the current conventional mass production of one animal/plant is unhealthy for the planet/humanity.

That said, I don't judge any of you for whatever you use!  But that is why I don't use lard in my soap.


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## shunt2011 (Oct 29, 2014)

I personally love lard in soap.  Espcially in my facial soap.  I carry soaps with lard and all veggie.  That way I appeal to most customers.


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## dixiedragon (Oct 29, 2014)

That's one of the benefits of living in the Deep South - people who eat pork rinds don't get upset about lard soap!

When people ask me about it, I say, "Lard is a great soap making ingredient. It makes a hard, gentle, long-lasting bar of soap."


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## snappyllama (Oct 29, 2014)

dixiedragon said:


> That's one of the benefits of living in the Deep South - people who eat pork rinds don't get upset about lard soap!



Off topic, but do y'all remember during the Atkin's diet mania when pork rinds were considered health food? :think: That still cracks me up.  Personally, I'm waiting for the potatoes, cheese and chocolate diet.  That one I could get behind.


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## Moody Glenn (Oct 29, 2014)

Hello! I also use lard in my soap and occasionally had a few comments about it from customers. I do not plan to change my recipes due to a very small fraction of people having a hissy-fit about it. Most people don't care. The one or two that do I figure will never shop again. The best advice I ever received was "You can't please everyone so get over it and make the people who are pleased even more happy." 

I totally understand if someone is vegan, concerned about animal rights or has religious reasons not to have soap made with lard. I applaud them for their tenacity, beliefs and lifestyle. But I do highly question why they complain if they eat bacon for breakfast, ribs at barbecues and ham for Easter.  That is lard hypocrisy.

PS: Label your soap as containing *LARD*. Give proud credit to those wonderful piggies.


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## IrishLass (Oct 29, 2014)

Lard lover here, too. 

 

I came up with a couple of different formulas that include lard, but my favorite is my combo tallow & lard formula. I also use tallow in my shave soap.

I don't sell, but I give away lots of my bars as gifts, and I've only ever had one person ask me if any of my soap contained lard (she avoided lard for religious reasons). Because of this, I believe it's very important to not mince words when it comes to labeling lard soap. If lard is in there, don't try to hide it behind other words that others might not recognize.

When I label my soaps that contain lard (and tallow), I'm very up front with it. The words, "Sumptuous Tallow/Lard Formula" are proudly displayed on the front of my label, and they also listed in the ingredients on the back, of course.

Other than that one person I mentioned above who avoided lard for religious reasons, no one else seems to care what oils/fats I use in my soap. All they know is that they love my soap and they consider it a welcome treat whenever they are gifted with some. The only thing they really seem to be discriminatory over is the scent.

One of these days, I want to get my hands on some leaf lard to use in my pie crust. I normally use all-butter for my crusts, and it makes awesome, flaky crusts for me, but I hear so many wonderful things about the lard crusts of old (before hydrogenation came into vogue) that it's my dream to one day be able to make one with leaf lard. 

IrishLass


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 29, 2014)

The first soap that I made using lard was actually called "Lard soap # 1" so it was not overly hidden 

Off topic, but Snappyllama, I'm on the Sea Food diet - I see food, I eat it!


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## AMyers (Oct 29, 2014)

snappyllama said:


> Check your regular grocery store. They keep is hidden away on bottom shelves most of the time.  I also avoid Walmart like the plague - though the one near me now isn't nearly as bad as the ones in Houston were... bleh.



One of my regular stores carries a 4lb bucket of lard, but it's not just lard, it also has several other ingredients, including citric acid.  I figured that I don't want to mess with all that other stuff, especially since I'm new.  But is that what "everyone" is using?  The other store where I regularly shop said they no longer carry lard (though one employee implied that they often will bring it back in for the holidays, because, tamales.)


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## hlee (Oct 29, 2014)

I don't sell but give lots away. I love my lard, don't use it in every soap but personally I like it better than my soaps without it.
 No one that I give it to seems to have a problem with it but then again, it's free soap.


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## KatieShephard (Oct 29, 2014)

AMyers said:


> One of my regular stores carries a 4lb bucket of lard, but it's not just lard, it also has several other ingredients, including citric acid.  I figured that I don't want to mess with all that other stuff, especially since I'm new.  But is that what "everyone" is using?  The other store where I regularly shop said they no longer carry lard (though one employee implied that they often will bring it back in for the holidays, because, tamales.)



I used this one...


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## dixiedragon (Oct 29, 2014)

Mine comes in a green and white bucket and it says Manteca on one side. I think it actually has some citric acid as well, but I've never had a problem with it. My Wal-Mart ussed to carry it in 30 lb buckets, but now the biggest is 4 lb. *sigh*


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## dixiedragon (Oct 29, 2014)

snappyllama said:


> Off topic, but do y'all remember during the Atkin's diet mania when pork rinds were considered health food? :think: That still cracks me up. Personally, I'm waiting for the potatoes, cheese and chocolate diet. That one I could get behind.


 
Compare pork rinds to a bag of potatoe chips. Pork rinds are actually a better choice for most people! They've got some protein, at least!

My dad's diabetic and I make meatballs with powdered porkrinds instead of bread crumbs.


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## Jstar (Oct 29, 2014)

DWinMadison said:


> On the up side, I think lard is making a dietary comeback.  Here's a couple of redemptive articles.
> 
> http://www.foodandwine.com/articles/lard-the-new-health-food
> 
> ...



I keep my bacon drippings in a can in the fridge..and I use it alllll the time..I LOVE bacon..and I figure if it can go on my insides with a smile, then it can sure as heck go on my outsides with a smile too LOL

Funny this thread comes up, because I haven't gotten to use lard yet, but Imma gonna..already went and bought it so thats my next soaping adventure.. {and if nobody wants it, that just leaves more for meeeeee hehehehe


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## Jstar (Oct 29, 2014)

lionprincess00 said:


> I spend three days and several hours rendering my own tallow until it's completely white and hard as a rock with nothing but clear water separating by the final render. It is completely scent free as well. It's a luxury in my opinion in that I spend so much time and effort doing this and have a wonderful final product. I'm proud of it and wouldn't hesitate to tell someone as such seeing as I put so much work into it. That, and my best soaps have a ton of tallow in it. Don't like it? Move along then  lard I'm sure is also awesome. Just had to give my 2 cents on the animal fat thing.



Amen sister


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## dixiedragon (Oct 29, 2014)

I've been saving my bacon drippings to recycle into bacon grease soap and people keep THROWING THEM AWAY! :evil:


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## Jstar (Oct 29, 2014)

Susie said:


> My closest source of tallow is a butcher an hour from here.  All the butchers in town sell their beef fat to some company.  And since it is hunting season, there is no one willing to give/sell beef fat .  I am sure tallow works as well as lard, I just don't have easy access to it.



Speaking of hunting season..I used to hunt, but got tired of freezing my rear end off...and altho deer is lean, I know there's some fat somewhere...has anyone ever tried deer fat for soap?


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## Jstar (Oct 29, 2014)

Obsidian said:


> Susie, if you can get a hold of some deer or bear fat, do it. It makes the best tallow and is well worth the time spent rendering it.
> 
> I use lard in nearly all my soap, luckily no one in this area really seems to care. If someone did have issues with it, they can get their soap somewhere else.



Ack!, I need to read everything before I ask a dumb question thats already been answered LOL


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## JustBeachy (Oct 29, 2014)

My grandma, who first showed me how to make soap when i was just a kid, would be rolling over in her grave if she saw one of my all vegetable recipes. haha. She used nothing but, as she put it, "Good hog lard, lye and water."  It was out in the country so we would cook it up outside in a big black cauldron, over an open fire. Ah, good times. 

Years back when i got into soap making, I started with lard and other oils, it just progressed into non lard recipes. These days, I just don't even think of using it. I like my recipe and it produces a great bar of soap.  I still like to experiment with stuff, usually one batch per week, maybe this weekend I'll try out a lard recipe.


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## Jstar (Oct 29, 2014)

snappyllama said:


> Off topic, but do y'all remember during the Atkin's diet mania when pork rinds were considered health food? :think: That still cracks me up.  Personally, I'm waiting for the potatoes, cheese and chocolate diet.  That one I could get behind.



Im on the steak, stuffed baked potato, and chocolate diet right now


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## Susie (Oct 29, 2014)

dixiedragon said:


> I've been saving my bacon drippings to recycle into bacon grease soap and people keep THROWING THEM AWAY! :evil:



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo!!!!!!!!  Lost bacon drippings!  I had to hide mine in a bag of frozen veggies to keep certain people from tossing it.  Now I just tell them it is for that lovely soap, and they leave it alone.(It is not for soap, it is for gravy.  But shhhhhh.)


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## sososo (Oct 29, 2014)

50% lard + 50% pomace OO - what do you think about this recipe? I want to try it these days...


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## Susie (Oct 29, 2014)

I live WAY away from legal bear hunting.  Matter of fact, someone went to jail for killing one not too long ago.  And the deer here are extremely lean, which is why all the butchers use tallow and lard to make sausage with venison.

I tried the GV shortening, but was unimpressed.  Matter of fact, my family said no more of that.  Just lard.  So I gave that batch to the shelter.


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## Susie (Oct 29, 2014)

sososo said:


> 50% lard + 50% pomace OO - what do you think about this recipe? I want to try it these days...



I think it will lack bubbles, and I am a bubble addict.  I like Lard 55%, Olive oil 20%, CO 20% and Castor oil 5%, with 1 Tablespoon(14 gm) sugar/500 gm oils.


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## sososo (Oct 29, 2014)

Susie said:


> I think it will lack bubbles, and I am a bubble addict.  I like Lard 55%, Olive oil 20%, CO 20% and Castor oil 5%, with 1 Tablespoon(14 gm) sugar/500 gm oils.


30-40 years ago my grandmother made 100% lard soap and, as I remember, there was enough bubbles...


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## dosco (Oct 29, 2014)

I use lard and it's great.

I've used it successfully in shave soap (in place of tallow) and also most recently in making facial soap and pine tar soap (both were made 2 weeks ago).

I cut a piece of PT soap from the large piece/batch (molded in a PVC pipe) and used it this morning to wash my hair. Plenty of bubbles and lather. Excellent result.

I plan on continuing my use of lard. Cheap, easy to get, and makes good soap.

Cheers-
Dave


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## seven (Oct 29, 2014)

i personally don't mind animal fats, but i know some ppl do. i can't use lard (for religious purposes), but i loooveeee tallow in soaps!


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## JustBeachy (Oct 29, 2014)

Jstar said:


> Im on the steak, stuffed baked potato, and chocolate diet right now



Very few people realize this, or maybe it's only me, but chocolate is it's own food group!!!!


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## JustBeachy (Oct 29, 2014)

sososo said:


> 30-40 years ago my grandmother made 100% lard soap and, as I remember, there was enough bubbles...



I'll second that one.


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## Jstar (Oct 29, 2014)

JustBeachy said:


> Very few people realize this, or maybe it's only me, but chocolate is it's own food group!!!!



Totally agree..and btw, dark chocolate is 'very' good for you, and thats my fave kind


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## DWinMadison (Oct 29, 2014)

Earthen_Step said:


> I personally hate the massive meat industry and choose not to support it.  If I were to use lard/tallow I would purchase it from local farms I trust and like.  I'm also not in love with "conventional" farming methods and buy organic/sustainable for everything I can justify.  I plan on migrating to 100% organic at some point, at least for the oils (I'm almost there).  I just think a lot of the current conventional mass production of one animal/plant is unhealthy for the planet/humanity.
> 
> That said, I don't judge any of you for whatever you use!  But that is why I don't use lard in my soap.



As the father of a vegan I respect that totally.  As for me, call me a skeptic, but I'm dubious of words like "organic" and "sustainable."  I'm not really even sure anybody knows what those mean.  I lump them in with words like "green," "whole grain," "bio-friendly," and "global warming" er...now "climate change."  They all seem to have a common theme of someone else telling me how to live my life, asking me to pay more for doing it and shaming me if I don't live up to some anonymous group's standards and rules.  Guess I'm an earth-hater


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## Susie (Oct 29, 2014)

Yeah, not so much an earth hater.  Just not on the bandwagon of <insert cause of the day here>.  When I was a child, they taught us all about the coming ice age caused by pollution and gases going into the atmosphere.  Now we are being told that it is warming.  Guess they need to make up their mind.  

Yes, if I can get lard from a local farmer, I will do so.  Why? It is good for our local economy, and makes good use of what is produced here.  Am I going to avoid using mass produced lard?  Nope.


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## goteeguy (Oct 29, 2014)

My "go to" soap recipe uses 36.5% Lard.  My family, friends, and co-workers LOVE the soap and swear they'll never use store bought again.  However, several people requested a vegan soap due to religious restrictions, dietary choices, etc. so I make that as well.  I live in a very multicultural community, so try my best to respect other people's choices.


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## KSwiderski (Oct 30, 2014)

My grandma love soap made with lard. She calls it lye soap. But she doesn't like the soaps I made without the lard/tallow (beef) 

I am interested in trying deer tallow


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## sassanellat (Oct 30, 2014)

Susie said:


> Yeah, not so much an earth hater.  Just not on the bandwagon of <insert cause of the day here>.  When I was a child, they taught us all about the coming ice age caused by pollution and gases going into the atmosphere.  Now we are being told that it is warming.  Guess they need to make up their mind.
> 
> Yes, if I can get lard from a local farmer, I will do so.  Why? It is good for our local economy, and makes good use of what is produced here.  Am I going to avoid using mass produced lard?  Nope.



I'm curious if you feel the meterological science that was done 40+ year ago before there were really computers more powerful than a Commodore 64 compares to the staggering advances in understanding and the use of supercomputers now? Science always makes the best estimation of the data at the time - and then the press completely gets it wrong (which is what they did went wild with non-peer reviewed nonsense paid for by the oil industry way back then). But hey, we can take comfort in the fact that we now KNOW that we're in extremely deep do-do due to human-produced climate change, and that 98.83% of all the global peer-reviewed scientific literature on the subject since 1990 is in agreement. It's good to be skeptical... but it's better to be informed. 

Fat that goes to the landfill ferments anaerobically and becomes methane, which is thirty times more powerful of a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide (the product you get when soap is eventually broken down by bacteria under aerobic conditions. Therefore soaping animal fats is also very green (in addition to the positives that you mention).


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## Susie (Oct 30, 2014)

sassanellat said:


> I'm curious if you feel the meterological science that was done 40+ year ago before there were really computers more powerful than a Commodore 64 compares to the staggering advances in understanding and the use of supercomputers now? Science always makes the best estimation of the data at the time - and then the press completely gets it wrong (which is what they did went wild with non-peer reviewed nonsense paid for by the oil industry way back then). But hey, we can take comfort in the fact that we now KNOW that we're in extremely deep do-do due to human-produced climate change, and that 98.83% of all the global peer-reviewed scientific literature on the subject since 1990 is in agreement. It's good to be skeptical... but it's better to be informed.
> 
> Fat that goes to the landfill ferments anaerobically and becomes methane, which is thirty times more powerful of a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide (the product you get when soap is eventually broken down by bacteria under aerobic conditions. Therefore soaping animal fats is also very green (in addition to the positives that you mention).



With all due respect, I have seen scientists and media run around like Chicken Little screaming that this or that is true for a lot of years.  Then I have seen their dire predictions come to naught.  But you never see a single one of them get on the TV and say they were wrong.  Whether you choose to believe them or not is your choice.  I will continue to weigh what they say against what they said last week, month, or year to see if their track record shows them being right more than wrong, and whether they are honest enough to say when they are wrong.


----------



## dosco (Oct 30, 2014)

sassanellat said:


> I'm curious if you feel the meterological science that was done 40+ year ago before there were really computers more powerful than a Commodore 64 compares to the staggering advances in understanding and the use of supercomputers now?



Weather is a large multifactorial problem and scientists have very little understanding of how the factors relate ... numerical solutions are interesting but without some way to verify their accuracy they're completely questionable. This is the case in structural engineering, fluid dynamics, and many many other fields that have adopted the use of powerful computers and mathematical models.



> Science always makes the best estimation of the data at the time - and then the press completely gets it wrong (which is what they did went wild with non-peer reviewed nonsense paid for by the oil industry way back then).



If you're referring to "global cooling" perhaps you should obtain the body of information developed by Carl Sagan, who was a huge proponent/mouthpiece of the "global cooling" doomsday community. I have some serious doubts he was sponsored by big oil.



> But hey, we can take comfort in the fact that we now KNOW that we're in extremely deep do-do due to human-produced climate change, and that 98.83% of all the global peer-reviewed scientific literature on the subject since 1990 is in agreement. It's good to be skeptical... but it's better to be informed.



I subscribe to the idea that we should use our resources wisely (which collectively we are not) but I am not convinced that "because scientists are in agreement then it is true."

But yes, you can choose to believe in what you want. It is a free country.



> ... ... Therefore soaping animal fats is also very green (in addition to the positives that you mention).



YES!

We are in violent agreement!!

Cheers-
Dave


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## dosco (Oct 30, 2014)

Susie said:


> I have seen scientists and media run around like Chicken Little screaming that this or that is true for a lot of years.



Since scientists need sponsorship, and because people seem to only respond to dire predictions, scientists have largely adopted the "politics of doomsday" to appeal for $$.


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## DWinMadison (Oct 30, 2014)

dosco said:


> Since scientists need sponsorship, and because people seem to only respond to dire predictions, scientists have largely adopted the "politics of doomsday" to appeal for $$.



I was going to make the same point.  The same people who demonize "big oil" fail to recognize the only way these climate "scientists" get grant funding to pay their salaries and Al Gore makes billions off of his clean energy investments is by scaring people and legislating that we live "green" lives. I'm all for living responsibily, I just don't trust politicians and scientists with co flicks of interest.

Remember the gulf oil spill?  Probably not.  I drove to the Alabama beaches where I spent many vacations over my life right after it happened. I stood there and wept because "scientists" said that the gulf coast ecosystem was ruined for the rest of my life.  Been to the beach lately?  Sugar-white sand and the raw oysters are great. 

I've joined PETA (People Eating Tasty Animals)  Praise the Lard!


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## DWinMadison (Oct 30, 2014)

OMG!  (omg? What am I, 13?) We should do a soap challenge with a rif on lard soap.  Extra style points for related shapes colors and fragrances. We could call it "Praise the Lard!"  For sellers it would be a fun soap to sell and a way to educate customers about the benefits of rendered fats in soap.


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## Obsidian (Oct 30, 2014)

This would be a perfect mold


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 30, 2014)

Could scent a lard soap with a dandelion scent and call it "Swine & Dandy"


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## Susie (Oct 30, 2014)

*Cleans coffee off the laptop AGAIN!*  

Y'all are just hilarious!


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## Earthen_Step (Oct 30, 2014)

DWinMadison said:


> As the father of a vegan I respect that totally.  As for me, call me a skeptic, but I'm dubious of words like "organic" and "sustainable."  I'm not really even sure anybody knows what those mean.  I lump them in with words like "green," "whole grain," "bio-friendly," and "global warming" er...now "climate change."  They all seem to have a common theme of someone else telling me how to live my life, asking me to pay more for doing it and shaming me if I don't live up to some anonymous group's standards and rules.  Guess I'm an earth-hater



I agree with you to a point.  The key words of "organic" and "sustainable" mean less and less as time goes on.  They still mean much more than "all natural" which means absolutely nothing.  I buy the majority of my food from local farms and I know their practices.  I have been to the farms and see what they do.  I have gone out of my way to meet the farmers and see their practices.  I wish I had that option for oils, but my climate is pretty terrible for any of the oils I use in soap.  

If I become wealthy enough I will travel around and find sources for my oils that I trust and know are sustainable.  I would love to have permaculture grown oils at some point -- if possible.  I will make due with what options I have at the prices I can afford.  I have found oil farms that seem to be top notch, but the prices are also out of my reach.  I should dig deeper into the sources of the oils I do purchase, it would be nice to know more details.

Palm oil farms come from deforestation.  I buy RSPO palm oils, which is a great step in the right direction imo.  The mass production of lard from pig farms is not appealing to me.  I think the way the animals are treated can be horrendous and is uncalled for.  It creates an atmosphere of disease and is demoralizing to humanity.  There are many pig farms around my area that are top notch.  Well treated animals that live happy great lives until the slaughter.  These are the farms I would go to if I were to switch to using lard.

Manure is a problem for these massive farms.  Some have these huge pools of filth that are unusable as fertilizer because it's diseased and loaded with harmful chemicals.  On smaller operations the manure is a commodity that is very useful as a compost to feed their plants.  A complete cycle of life that can sustain itself forever.  No outside sources of fertilizer, pesticides, hormones, feed, and so on.

I think the solution is a decentralized monopoly of our food industry.  Moving the supply back to the smaller farms.  Small farms with sound practices that produce a variety of crops.  Prices would go up, but quality would as well. The way to change this is by switching with your consumption.  Money talks louder than words.  The food I buy from the local farms here have vastly superior products.  It looks, smells and tastes remarkably better than what I can buy at the chain store up the road.

I also find it a disgrace that in the USA taxes are used to lower the cost of bad practices.  Around $20 billion per year is paid in taxes to agriculture. Most of that money goes to very few people.  It's a terrible system imo, and I'd like it to change.

I can tell a VAST difference between the oils I purchased pre-organic to now.  I started off with non-certified organic oils for everything.  I have switched most of them over and the difference is remarkable.  They smell amazing, taste fantastic and look different.  The soap has increased in quality as well.  It feels better, smells better and is more conditioning.  I don't think I'm crazy in all this, my users have agreed.

I realize this is not an option for all of you.  And some of you could care less.  Different viewpoints and budgets.  I just want to explain myself further. The conversation has expanded since my last post on this thread.

I apologize to all of you if I'm offending.  I don't mean to come off preachy.  I do not think I'm superior to any of you!  I am just a human with strong opinions and love to share what I think is good.  I don't think you are wrong in thinking differently than me.  If I can change a persons mind, I'd love to.  but I realize that probably will not happen.  I'm sure there are others on here who think similar to me, I hope to be a voice for like minded.  There are many voices in opposition, it's good to have various viewpoints to ponder about.

*A few links below for those interested in examples of what I'm talking about.*
Large pig farms:
http://www.rodalenews.com/pasture-raised-pork
http://www.belsandia.com/factory-farming.html
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/01/27/the-disgusting-methods-factory-farms-use-to-dispos.aspx

Information on RSPO cert here: http://www.rspo.org/en/frequently_asked_questions

Permaculture:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permaculture
http://www.organicgardening.com/learn-and-grow/introduction-permaculture
http://www.permaculture.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/water-in-permaculture.pdf
http://permaculturenews.org/
http://midwestpermaculture.com/tag/plant-guilds/

A video for on EU farming. There are many more videos and articles showing  animal raising practices in the USA and all around the world.

http://youtu.be/T2lvTwrBfBE

Good intro movie to small farm thinking
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adooHT4ubnY[/ame]


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## DWinMadison (Oct 30, 2014)

Obsidian said:


> This would be a perfect mold



Is there "Love" button to click somewhere on here?


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## reinbeau (Oct 30, 2014)

I use lard from my neighbor's hogs.  I used to buy heritage hog leaf lard from a local farm, but my neighbor gives it to me for free - and he gets free soap for his trouble!  I'm hoping to get some deer tallow from him this fall, I have my feelers out to all the hunters I know.  I love tallow and lard in my soap!

As for the climate debate, seriously, in the 70s (I'm old enough to remember) we were all going to freeze to death in the dark.  Now we're going to boil to death.  Sorry.  They're using their agenda driven science to control us.  Not buying it.  Stop pollution because it's bad for all of us?  Yes.  Stop it because it's going to change the climate?  Tell me again why the polar ice caps on Mars were melting as ours were and I might pay attention to you.


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## DWinMadison (Oct 30, 2014)

Earthen_Step said:


> I agree with you to a point.  The key words of "organic" and "sustainable" mean less and less as time goes on.  They still mean much more than "all natural" which means absolutely nothing.  I buy the majority of my food from local farms and I know their practices.  I have been to the farms and see what they do.  I have gone out of my way to meet the farmers and see their practices.  I wish I had that option for oils, but my climate is pretty terrible for any of the oils I use in soap.
> 
> If I become wealthy enough I will travel around and find sources for my oils that I trust and know are sustainable.  I would love to have permaculture grown oils at some point -- if possible.  I will make due with what options I have at the prices I can afford.  I have found oil farms that seem to be top notch, but the prices are also out of my reach.  I should dig deeper into the sources of the oils I do purchase, it would be nice to know more details.
> 
> ...



All good points, although I can't attest to commercial pig farming I have toured the huge poultry processing plant owned by Tyson foods here in my area.  It's a marvel of cleanliness and efficiency.  Having wrung the neck of many a chicken for Sunday dinner on my grandparent's farm as a boy, I can tell you I feel WAY better after touring about the cleanliness and safety of our US poultry supply.  I love the idea of small farms, but I am not prepared to say that large-scale farming is bad or produces an inferior quality product.  Smaller is not always better.  Just like there is not definitive science proving that there is a single benefit to "organic" food.  

Remember when environmentalists pushed for the ban on DDT because "science" demonstrated it was harmful?  That was followed by 50 million new malaria deaths in Africa, South America, India and similar countries.

Sorry this is off the topic of lard and soap.  I will say that is one great thing about our country.  Everybody has (or used to have) choices. C'est la vie!


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## DWinMadison (Oct 30, 2014)

See!  This is why I quit soaping last time.  The creative side of me tends to get a little obsessive about it.  I think I told you guys I was considering making soaps for my church to use in various ways.  Well, I have agreed to help lead a new "Life Group"....Sunday School for you "old timers."  Anyway, we've been working on ways to promote this new class to visitors or even folks who may have stopped attending other life groups for one reason or another.  (Now keep in mind, I live in a part of the country where "church" = about 2,000 people on Sunday and a life group can be 50 people or more, so this is no small undertaking) Anyway, I came up with the idea to make a custom soap specifically for folks who join or visit our life group--sort of a promotional idea.  I have already made a soap stamp using the church logo a couple of years ago.  So now, of course I know what the first soap will be made of and what it will be named - "Praise the Lard!"


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## dosco (Oct 30, 2014)

DWinMadison said:


> Remember when environmentalists pushed for the ban on DDT because "science" demonstrated it was harmful?  That was followed by 50 million new malaria deaths in Africa, South America, India and similar countries.



But DDT was and is harmful to a variety of species on the planet, and in the end was probably harmful to us. I'm fairly certain my father died of lung cancer because as a kid his family used DDT on the farm to control the flies and other insects (he wasn't a smoker).

And your point about malaria deaths is also correct. So the science wasn't bad and the scientists weren't wrong.

Instead we're talking about a different problem. It's a trade study ... is the use of certain chemicals that are known to be "bad" be a net positive or net negative, all things considered?


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## girlishcharm2004 (Oct 30, 2014)

I started making my tallow soaps from rendering beef fat collected from Whole Foods which was organic, grass-fed, and followed the 5 principles of humane treatment of animals.  I do not have a problem with animal fats.  In fact, they gave me the fat for free so it was even economical for me to get started soaping. I do agree that there is a fine line between stewardship and abuse when it comes to farming -- large or small.  However, animals were created for our use.


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## Jstar (Oct 30, 2014)

Susie said:


> *Cleans coffee off the laptop AGAIN!*
> 
> Y'all are just hilarious!



I'm right there with ya..I dont know how many times I have almost lost whatever liquid I have been drinking at the time of reading some of these posts...I need to get some saran wrap I think and cover my lappy when I come here.


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## Susie (Oct 30, 2014)

OOOH!  Good idea!


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## Consuela (Oct 30, 2014)

Jstar said:


> I need to get some saran wrap I think and cover my *lappy* when I come here.



Jstar, are you an Aussie at heart?  

(sorry for the derailment)


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## Jstar (Oct 30, 2014)

LOL..not sure..could be..I'm a mixture of everything I think at times


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## IrishLass (Oct 30, 2014)

Jstar said:


> I'm right there with ya..I dont know how many times I have almost lost whatever liquid I have been drinking at the time of reading some of these posts...I need to get some saran wrap I think and cover my lappy when I come here.



That's a good idea. lol

I had the misfortune of spewing a bit of hot chai on my keyboard a couple of years ago, although I must say that I think I was more mad at having lost out on some of my chai than having had spilled it on my keyboard.




Happily, my keyboard survived and I'm still typing away on it, but still, to this day, my backspace button will stick when we get the rare humid day around here.

 IrishLass


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## sassanellat (Oct 30, 2014)

Susie said:


> With all due respect, I have seen scientists and media run around like Chicken Little screaming that this or that is true for a lot of years.  Then I have seen their dire predictions come to naught.  But you never see a single one of them get on the TV and say they were wrong.  Whether you choose to believe them or not is your choice.  I will continue to weigh what they say against what they said last week, month, or year to see if their track record shows them being right more than wrong, and whether they are honest enough to say when they are wrong.



It's actually rare for scientists to be on media at all, so mostly it's the press getting is wrong. When scientists get is wrong, that's published in the same journals - you know, in print. There really isn't much science each year that they that's wrong due to peer-review (and that's assessed yearly and published, too - so it's all quite transparent). Mostly, the 'science' you're mentioning is propaganda designed to look like science, but it's really just PR for a corporation or special interest (much like FOX News). Despite how people get misdirected for personal interest, the same scientific method has pretty much created everything in the modern world, from your clothes on down. We know vastly more about evolution and human-produced climate change than we know about gravity these days, and no one really has any doubt about that.


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## Susie (Oct 30, 2014)

Consuela said:


> Jstar, are you an Aussie at heart?
> 
> (sorry for the derailment)



Lappy is a widely used nickname for laptops these days.  Lots of folks liked the Aussie word, including me.


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## sassanellat (Oct 30, 2014)

dosco said:


> Weather is a large multifactorial problem and scientists have very little understanding of how the factors relate ... numerical solutions are interesting but without some way to verify their accuracy they're completely questionable.



Not so much anymore. they'd accurate modeled and *predicted* storms exactly like Hurricane Sandy seven ears earlier using models for the changes they were seeing for that window in time. Is it easy? Nope. But we have satellites now that track the temperature of every square meter of the surface of the planet. And they aren't speaking of modeling the weather at your house for the next three years, but the large scale of global warming, the greenhouse gasses, etc. they have nailed down. Humans have never seen a 99%= accordance: it's as much fact as witnessing a car run into a tree, and more reliable than your memory of seeing it.  



> If you're referring to "global cooling" perhaps you should obtain the body of information developed by Carl Sagan, who was a huge proponent/mouthpiece of the "global cooling" doomsday community. I have some serious doubts he was sponsored by big oil.



Actually, I was referring to the major source of the textbook changes which was funded by Big Oil. The account of that was actually covered in a documentary on the subject recently, but for the life of me, I can't remember the name. Regardless, they were working with computers the size of buildings that were hand cabled and punch carded. The difference in data and tech is like a medieval village lighting their way with a burning ember and using a LED flashlight. I don't think people really understand how much has changes even since 1980 - the growth has been exponential in ways that most people don't grasp well.  



> I subscribe to the idea that we should use our resources wisely (which collectively we are not)



Me, too! 



> But yes, you can choose to believe in what you want. It is a free country.



Yes, you can believe in what you like, but that really only matters in religious or unknown subject areas. The science is the science whether people 'believe' in it or not - something that Neil DeGrasse Tyson (an intellectual scion of the brilliant Sagan) famously pointed out earlier this year and something Sagan talked about all the time. I even saw him express that I've before he died (seriously, Sagan was the BEST lecturer that I've ever seen).  

Anyway, I think we're off-topic, and I was mostly just curious since Susie is a nurse, and I was interested in her training since I train them. As always, people can think as they choose.


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## Susie (Oct 30, 2014)

sassanellat said:


> It's actually rare for scientists to be on media at all, so mostly it's the press getting is wrong. When scientists get is wrong, that's published in the same journals - you know, in print. There really isn't much science each year that they that's wrong due to peer-review (and that's assessed yearly and published, too - so it's all quite transparent). Mostly, the 'science' you're mentioning is propaganda designed to look like science, but it's really just PR for a corporation or special interest (much like FOX News). Despite how people get misdirected for personal interest, the same scientific method has pretty much created everything in the modern world, from your clothes on down. We know vastly more about evolution and human-produced climate change than we know about gravity these days, and no one really has any doubt about that.



You know, I have been being really polite and responding to you as I would want to be talked to.  We hold very different opinions on lots of things, but no need to be rude.  However, I truly think this has indeed veered too far from lard and soap.  We can agree to politely disagree and drop this, right?  If not, you can send me a PM.


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## IrishLass (Oct 30, 2014)

Susie said:


> I truly think this has indeed veered too far from lard and soap. We can agree to politely disagree and drop this, right?



I think that is an excellent idea. 

Please, let's keep moving forward everyone.

Back to the original thread topic, ye lard lubbers! 

Thank you.

IrishLass


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## sassanellat (Oct 30, 2014)

Susie said:


> You know, I have been being really polite and responding to you as I would want to be talked to.  We hold very different opinions on lots of things, but no need to be rude.  However, I truly think this has indeed veered too far from lard and soap.  We can agree to politely disagree and drop this, right?  If not, you can send me a PM.



I haven't ever been rude to anyone on this board from my end, and I'm always polite. I actually was just curious as to whether you actually said what you mean (because many people don't when they say things in passing). I certainly did not intend to be rude or make you feel uncomfortable in my attempts to be clear and express some things that most people quite literally do not know these days because the world is changing very quickly. And yes, I agree about the far afield issue - I said the same thing in response to Daryl in the post below yours. 

Truly, I like you and enjoy your posts!


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## debra062013 (Oct 30, 2014)

Depending on the soap brand you buy in the store several of them have tallow in them. It was either Dial or Yardley last I checked that listed that as ingredient. Find a store bought soap that says it uses tallow and give your and that as gifts LOL.


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## sassanellat (Oct 30, 2014)

IrishLass said:


> Back to the original thread topic, ye lard lubbers!



So, what is your favorite lard soap formula? I'm going to try my first one soon, so I'd love a good starting point.


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## JustBeachy (Oct 30, 2014)

Well didn't this thread get lively. 

Here's my take. Science is a wonderful thing and a horrible thing.It's  brought us medical breakthoughs and the atom bomb.  In my opinion, one cannot say that it is always wrong or always right. My doubts as to the reliability of scientists however, is justifiable. It was scientists who advised us not to eat butter, only margarine. Now, margarine is bad and butter is back in.  Google healthy eggs and it seems now it's just not that bad to eat some eggs. ( Not like I was avoiding them anyway haha) Low fat was going to be the cure all, yet now, it's "healthy fats", cause our body's need fat.  I tend to stay in food fashion more often than not by just not changing the way I eat every time science changes it's mind. Sooner or later it's back in style.  I like Jack Lalanne's idea, "if man made it don't eat it". Getting harder to do these days.

To bring this back to the "soaping" agenda, I'm sure an argument could be made for all lard or no lard. Responsible lard or irresponsible lard. (is there such a thing?)  Truthfully though, isn't this  just another soaping personal preference? I used to use lard, my grandma used lard. It makes a wonderful soap.  I don't use lard in my soaps anymore, because i found a different recipe I liked better.  No ulterior motives, just because. Arguing against it, under the pretense of global warming, seems to be a giant leap off topic and really only serves to voice one's opinion on other matters.   Mine included. 

At times I think we've become so politically correct, we've forgotten common sense.


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## JustBeachy (Oct 30, 2014)

IrishLass said:


> I think that is an excellent idea.
> 
> Please, let's keep move forward everyone.
> 
> ...



Sorry, didn't see your post before i posted my last. I'm thinking lard now, I promise.


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## Dahila (Oct 30, 2014)

I made one lard soap and we fight with each other to use it) I have 16 bars of tallow but had not try it yet, should be good is already 8 weeks.  I love lard soap. ) 
Some frying requires a high smoke point, lard probably have the highest one


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## Jstar (Oct 30, 2014)

IrishLass said:


> That's a good idea. lol
> 
> I had the misfortune of spewing a bit of hot chai on my keyboard a couple of years ago, although I must say that I think I was more mad at having lost out on some of my chai than having had spilled it on my keyboard.
> 
> ...



Oh my..I would be freaked out if I actually spilled something in mine..with the way my luck runs, it would be a goner lol


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## IrishLass (Oct 30, 2014)

JustBeachy said:
			
		

> Sorry, didn't see your post before i posted my last. I'm thinking lard now, I promise.



You are forgiven. :grin:

Now that everyone has gotten everything off their chests, here is the formula for my very first ever lard soap. I refer to it as my VCC #1 formula (VCC stands for 'veggie con carne' :razz: ). It went through a couple of tweaks before I settled on my VCC #3 formula, which contains both lard _and_ tallow, but this is the one that got me hooked on using lard in my soap. It makes a great bar, and I hope you all enjoy as much I do:

Olive Oil 34%
Palm Kernel Oil 31.5%
Lard 26.5%
Castor Oil 8%


IrishLass


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## Jstar (Oct 30, 2014)

Wow, where'd that other page come from? ..This thread moved too fast on me..

Ok, Lard.

My next soapy adventure will be first time using lard and CO...maybe toss some CM in there as well..hehehe.. Im now addicted to CM..sorry..*ahem*

Right now I have to run back outside and finish burning my leaves....{I also have a 'fire bug' instinct...where there is a pile of burning leaves, Imma be playing in it }


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## DeeAnna (Oct 31, 2014)

Making a valiant effort to redirect the conversation back to lard in soap.... 

"...30-40 years ago my grandmother made 100% lard soap and, as I remember, there was enough bubbles... ..."

I grew up helping (well maybe that's stretching the point a bit) my grandmother Goldie render lard and make soap with it. She used it for the laundry only -- she used store-bought soap for the bath and kitchen. What I'd say about my bar soaps that are mostly lard is that they lather better as time goes on. At first, the bubbles can be a bit thinner and lighter than I'd like, but after a few months the lather becomes denser and more abundant. Very nice.


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## summerflyy (Oct 31, 2014)

I have never used lard or tallow before because it's harder to get it back in Singapore but now that I'm in the UK, it's much more readily available so I think I'm going to try it in my next batch ! 

I would like to ask what's the difference between using tallow in soap and using lard in soap. Do you guys find a tallow/lard combination much nicer, and in what way ?


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## dixiedragon (Oct 31, 2014)

My lard soap recipe:
45% lard (sometimes I do half lard and half tallow)
20% coconut
25% olive
5% castor
5% sunflower

Lard is a perfect soap making oil. No other oil contributes hardness, bubbles and conditioning to soap. ESPECIALLY that that price point!


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## Susie (Oct 31, 2014)

Summerflyy- do your own test.  Make one batch with lard, and one with tallow.  Six weeks later, test them both.  The difference is there.  The numbers on soapcalc just don't tell the whole story.


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## summerflyy (Oct 31, 2014)

Susie said:


> Summerflyy- do your own test.  Make one batch with lard, and one with tallow.  Six weeks later, test them both.  The difference is there.  The numbers on soapcalc just don't tell the whole story.




Okay ! I'll do it when I order my supplies next month !


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## DWinMadison (Oct 31, 2014)

dixiedragon said:


> My lard soap recipe:
> 45% lard (sometimes I do half lard and half tallow)
> 20% coconut
> 25% olive
> ...



Thanks.  That was almost the exact recipe I was thinking of running through soapcalc.


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## judymoody (Oct 31, 2014)

I don't eat pigs or cows so I don't soap with their fats.  But that's just my personal preference.  I don't judge others by what they eat or the ingredients of their soap.


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## simplicitysarah (Oct 31, 2014)

lionprincess00 said:


> I spend three days and several hours rendering my own tallow until it's completely white and hard as a rock with nothing but clear water separating by the final render. It is completely scent free as well. It's a luxury in my opinion in that I spend so much time and effort doing this and have a wonderful final product. I'm proud of it and wouldn't hesitate to tell someone as such seeing as I put so much work into it. That, and my best soaps have a ton of tallow in it. Don't like it? Move along then  lard I'm sure is also awesome. Just had to give my 2 cents on the animal fat thing.



I also render my own lard for cooking and soaps!! but I notice people don't like the lard idea in their soap... my extended family wanted to know which of my soaps had lard in them and which didn't


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## sassanellat (Oct 31, 2014)

IrishLass said:


> You are forgiven. :grin:
> 
> Now that everyone has gotten everything off their chests, here is the formula for my very first ever lard soap. I refer to it as my VCC #1 formula (VCC stands for 'veggie con carne' :razz: ). It went through a couple of tweaks before I settled on my VCC #3 formula, which contains both lard _and_ tallow, but this is the one that got me hooked on using lard in my soap. It makes a great bar, and I hope you all enjoy as much I do:
> 
> ...



Thanks! This looks awesome, and I'm going to try exactly that ASAP. I love your idea to do a lard/tallow blend as well, so I'm adding that to my test list.


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## sassanellat (Oct 31, 2014)

dixiedragon said:


> My lard soap recipe:
> 45% lard (sometimes I do half lard and half tallow)
> 20% coconut
> 25% olive
> ...



Thanks!  I see you use 5% sunflower, and I've seen a few pros do that as well. What do you experience as the benefit/additional qualities of adding it? We have a local, small batch maker nearby, and I'd love to use them (especially in small percentages because, as always, small batch is more expensive).


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## loopyloop (Oct 31, 2014)

Yep, got a thought: stop saying it's got lard!  for such Narrow minded people, Works a treat, trust me. Not harming anyone either. Simple!


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## Jstar (Oct 31, 2014)

I too have wondered about sunflower oil..several times almost grabbed some and didn't..but Im heading to town tomorrow so I might just go all out and get some.


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## DWinMadison (Oct 31, 2014)

I generally add about 5-7% of some light oil (sunflower, grape seed or peanut ) to my recipe. Biggest reason, frankly, is that they are all widely available locally (as opposed to having to order Palm and coconut) and inexpensive. Each of them counters the harshness of the coconut oil and provides conditioning. It's all about balance of oils in soap making to me.


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## dixiedragon (Nov 2, 2014)

I read that sunflower oil works synergistically with olive oil to improve lather. My soap gets lots of creamy lather. I should probably do a blind survey at some point.


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## DWinMadison (Nov 2, 2014)

dixiedragon said:


> I read that sunflower oil works synergistically with olive oil to improve lather. My soap gets lots of creamy lather. I should probably do a blind survey at some point.



So what does boost lather other than castor oil?  I've heard that sugar does, which I guess is why sugars/lactose in goat's milk and coconut milk help too.


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## Jstar (Nov 2, 2014)

I swear by my soybean oil to boost lather{creamy and fluffy}..and a few others who use it also agree.

Found these links:

http://www.soap-making-essentials.com/soap-making-oils.html

http://home.windstream.net/familyjeans/propertiesofoils.html

Babassu, palm kernel and CO are said to create the big bubbles..while other oils give the creamy lather


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## DWinMadison (Nov 2, 2014)

So, would you use soybean INSTEAD or in substitute of castor?


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## snappyllama (Nov 2, 2014)

Keep the castor.  It is your friend.


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## DWinMadison (Nov 2, 2014)

snappyllama said:


> Keep the castor.  It is your friend.



Oh definitely. It's relatively cheap, widely available and definitely does something special for suds.


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## Jstar (Nov 2, 2014)

While castor and soy both used alone would produce too soft of a soap, I find I can use soy as a bulk base oil and prefer to use castor in smaller SF amounts..soy catches its flack about as much as lard does lol...but imma keep it..I like it


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## DWinMadison (Nov 7, 2014)

Ok...so quick follow-up. No one in my life can appreciate this but you guys. Here is the official "Praise the Lard" soap stamped with my church logo. Obviously, I need to clean it up a but, but still....


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## grumpy_owl (Nov 7, 2014)

It's lovely, DW, and just for the record, I made Hanukkah soaps today with lard. No, I'm not evil--they are gifts my mother is giving out and I checked with her first. The recipients don't keep kosher and wouldn't care. Still, I got a dirty little thrill melting down the pig fat.

Okay, so I'm a tiny bit evil...


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## DWinMadison (Nov 7, 2014)

grumpy_owl said:


> It's lovely, DW, and just for the record, I made Hanukkah soaps today with lard. No, I'm not evil--they are gifts my mother is giving out and I checked with her first. The recipients don't keep kosher and wouldn't care. Still, I got a dirty little thrill melting down the pig fat.
> 
> Okay, so I'm a tiny bit evil...



OK. That is a little bit evil. (Makes me want a hot dog too, so STOP IT!)


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## jules92207 (Nov 7, 2014)

Oh my gosh, pig fat in Hanukkah soaps... I flippin love it!


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## JustBeachy (Nov 8, 2014)

hahah, We are a ....uh, diverse, group of people. :smile:


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## Susie (Nov 8, 2014)

I asked a local reform rabbi(hospice nurses get to know clergy of every denomination), and he said as long as they were not eating the lard, it did not matter.  If someone is keeping kosher, though, the pig slaughter needed to be handled a certain way, and witnessed by the proper authority.


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## DWinMadison (Nov 8, 2014)

Susie said:


> I asked a local reform rabbi(hospice nurses get to know clergy of every denomination), and he said as long as they were not eating the lard, it did not matter.  If someone is keeping kosher, though, the pig slaughter needed to be handled a certain way, and witnessed by the proper authority.



Well check us out!  Soap and World Religions 101.


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## snappyllama (Nov 8, 2014)

It is a bit different with other religions so please keep that in mind. Of course, individuals have their own adherence beliefs to each standard. 

My 9-5 company is very diverse; I would play it safe and only bring vegan products without additives that someone may object to if bringing gifts to work. I'd hate to have someone use something unknowingly that would cause them religious upset. A quick stroll around the office: Baha'i receptionist, programmers in all the flavors of the religious rainbow (Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Mormon, Shinto, Jewish, Christian, Atheists-that-are-vegans, Wiccans).  There are also folks with nut allergies or staying gluten-free and lactose intolerant people.  Ordering pizza can be quite the challenge. On the plus side, there's always a holiday for someone going on so treats are brought in by folks pretty often! LOL

Muslims generally avoid anything pig-related. Other animal products should come from Halal certified butchers.
Hindus generally avoid anything cow-related and may be comfortable only with vegan products.
Buddhists generally avoid all animal products.
A number of religions/sects avoid drugs: coffee, beer, etc.

Some might object only to consuming those items, but others would not want to handle them either. 

Cheers and happy-whatever-you-are-celebrating-today!


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## DWinMadison (Nov 8, 2014)

We're a pretty homogenous group down in my neck of the woods. Pretty much anything you can kill, you can (and do) eat, so I'm guessing turning it into soap isn't a problem.  Even though I don't sell my soap, I'd still never provide it to anyone with a full explanation of the ingredients if I thought they would have any objections, allergies, etc.

That brings up an interesting question. Do people with peanut allergies generally react to soaps containing peanut oil?


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## IrishLass (Nov 8, 2014)

DWinMadison said:


> That brings up an interesting question. Do people with peanut allergies generally react to soaps containing peanut oil?


 
 I suppose it would probably depend on the individual person. I have a friend who is allergic to peanuts, but she is able to eat foods that have been deep fried in peanut oil without any issues at all.


 IrishLass


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## Susie (Nov 8, 2014)

Theoretically, peanut oil is free of the protein that triggers the allergy.  I did say theoretically.  In real life, I would provide a detailed list of ingredients with any food I was bringing to any get together that has any potential allergies.  I just use the FDA list:

http://www.fda.gov/Food/ResourcesForYou/Consumers/ucm079311.html

And write the ingredients on an index card and place in front of the dish

Caution:  Contains wheat, peanuts, soy(for example)

I don't think I have seen any recipes calling for peanut oil in soap.  Wonder why?


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## girlishcharm2004 (Nov 8, 2014)

Susie is correct.  Most people allergic to peanuts are allergic to the protein, not the fat.

In my neck of the woods, and I would assume elsewhere too, people who have a serious allergy generally don't take or consume things from others.  I have digestive issues.  I have learned to identify what types of foods that will cause it -- so, unless I can read the package or make it myself, I won't eat it.  Saves money by not eating out! Ha.


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## Susie (Nov 8, 2014)

Yeah, I used to get horrible migraines.  I learned quickly that cooking it myself saved me a LOT of headache days.  One of the best things I learned was how to make "Cream of" soups from scratch.  I make double batches every time and keep the extra in the freezer.


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## jules92207 (Nov 8, 2014)

Allergies are crazy. I have a co-worker who is vegetarian and allergic to lavender. I pretty much decided she wasn't getting any soaping products from me, I love lard in most of my soaps and most of my non lard soaps have lavender! I can't win!  Lol!


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## JustBeachy (Nov 8, 2014)

It must really suck to have allergy's. Sounds like a real pain.


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## summerflyy (Nov 9, 2014)

It does suck to have allergies. I once got a very bad allergy attack and lo and behold, into the hospital I went, went into shock etc. never want to experience that again so now I'm ultra careful with things I use. But thank god I am not allergic to nuts ! I love them ! Talking about oil, did anyone try using Camellia seed oil in their soap ?


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## DWinMadison (Nov 9, 2014)

Susie said:


> Theoretically, peanut oil is free of the protein that triggers the allergy.  I did say theoretically.  In real life, I would provide a detailed list of ingredients with any food I was bringing to any get together that has any potential allergies.  I just use the FDA list:
> 
> http://www.fda.gov/Food/ResourcesForYou/Consumers/ucm079311.html
> 
> ...



I use it in smaller amounts of 5 a 10% like you would sunflower. I also use it to emulsify colorants because it is almost as clear as castor in color but not as heavy.


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## DWinMadison (Nov 9, 2014)

girlishcharm2004 said:


> Susie is correct.  Most people allergic to peanuts are allergic to the protein, not the fat.
> 
> In my neck of the woods, and I would assume elsewhere too, people who have a serious allergy generally don't take or consume things from others.  I have digestive issues.  I have learned to identify what types of foods that will cause it -- so, unless I can read the package or make it myself, I won't eat it.  Saves money by not eating out! Ha.



There's a lot to be said for people taking responsibility for themselves.


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## Susie (Nov 9, 2014)

There is, indeed, much to be said for people taking responsibility for themselves.  And their safety is their own responsibility from start to finish.  No one else can do it for them.

However, I think when we go to Sunday School "Meet-N-Eats" of any sort, it would be great for people to be able to eat at least one food other than what they brought with some degree of safety.  And now that I have been doing this, others have also, so we have quite a few dishes with labelled allergens.


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## DWinMadison (Nov 9, 2014)

Susie said:


> There is, indeed, much to be said for people taking responsibility for themselves.  And their safety is their own responsibility from start to finish.  No one else can do it for them.
> 
> However, I think when we go to Sunday School "Meet-N-Eats" of any sort, it would be great for people to be able to eat at least one food other than what they brought with some degree of safety.  And now that I have been doing this, others have also, so we have quite a few dishes with labelled allergens.



No argument from me....especially for common allergens like nuts and shellfish.


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## AMyers (Nov 9, 2014)

Back to the op, I bought some of the lard off the shelf (with several additives, including citric acid) and soaped with it today. Results to come in 4-6 weeks!


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## grumpy_owl (Nov 9, 2014)

Naughty porky Hanukkah soaps. I had a slight partial gel issue -- wooden mold in the freezer -- but otherwise they look nice. The scent is BB's Salty Mariner and it accelerated like whoa.
Leviticus aside, lard makes a yumliciously smooth, hard soap.


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## DWinMadison (Nov 9, 2014)

grumpy_owl said:


> Naughty porky Hanukkah soaps. I had a slight partial gel issue -- wooden mold in the freezer -- but otherwise they look nice. The scent is BB's Salty Mariner and it accelerated like whoa.
> Leviticus aside, lard makes a yumliciously smooth, hard soap.



I agree. Just finished my 2nd batch of lard soap substituting it for GV shortening in my recipe. All the difference in the world.  Harder, whiter soaps which allow plenty of time to swirl. A real joy with which to work. Love the soaps btw.


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## dixiedragon (Nov 10, 2014)

Susie said:


> I asked a local reform rabbi(hospice nurses get to know clergy of every denomination), and he said as long as they were not eating the lard, it did not matter. If someone is keeping kosher, though, the pig slaughter needed to be handled a certain way, and witnessed by the proper authority.


 
I had no idea! That is very interesting!


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## dixiedragon (Nov 10, 2014)

Susie said:


> Yeah, I used to get horrible migraines. I learned quickly that cooking it myself saved me a LOT of headache days. One of the best things I learned was how to make "Cream of" soups from scratch. I make double batches every time and keep the extra in the freezer.


 
And they are SO MUCH BETTER! I made cream of chicken soup from scratch once, b/c I I was making a recipe that called for it and I didn't have any. It was SO GOOD.

BTW, I love love love the Cream of Celery and Cream of Zucchini soup recipes at Veggie Venture.


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## HoneyLady (Jan 16, 2015)

Lard and / or tallow in soaps is wonderful!!  Great for your skin.

Occasionally I run into crunchy granola "Boulder" types who protest.  {shrug}  Whatever.

I had one customer get fussy with me about it.  I asked if she thought I should use soy oil instead.  Thinking she was converting me, she said "YES!" enthusiastically.  

I pointed out that *no one* is raising hogs just for lard.  (Although at one time, that was another big reason hogs were useful on farms.)  They actually throw away lard because people don't use it like they used to.  I'm actually *protecting the environment and recycling!

LOTS of people are raising Round-Up Ready (TM) and other GMO soybeans JUST for the purpose of making soy oils and feed.

As a beekeeper, I have strong opinions :wink: about GMO plants, Round Up, herbicides and pesticides.  (I know all y'all are shocked about that.  )

Since the USDA does NOT label oils organic, and GMOs can't be labeled organic, it's not possible to make soap with organic soy oil.  

The woman fumbled, mumbled, and left with her tail between her legs.  We pick our soap boxes, I guess.  In this mostly rural area, "home made soap" MEANS lard soap.  Your customer base drives your  product selection.

If you have a local meat market (quite possibly ethnic) near you, go make friends with them.  Lard, tallow, you name it, they can help.  

As for beef tallow, DH recently brought home a large box of beef bones from a meat market that sells our honey.  We had shanks, legs, hips, etc.  They were free, because otherwise they pay a rendering company to collect them. They ran them through the saws for us to break them down.  We roasted them, saved the fat, and made lots of stock.  We chilled the stock overnight, which turned to gelatin.  Very nutritious.  On top of that well chilled stock was a 2" layer of pure beef tallow.  Bonanza!

Lard and tallow that has citric acid and BHT are fine to use.  Those won't affect your recipe.  They just keep the fats shelf stable, and retard rancidity.

Oink!  Moo!
~ HoneyLady ~


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## Earthen_Step (Jan 16, 2015)

HoneyLady said:


> Since the USDA does NOT label oils organic, and GMOs can't be labeled organic, it's not possible to make soap with organic soy oil.



I've seen certified organic soybean oil -- I don't understand this statement.  But I agree with a lot of what you said.  There is a lot of destructive practices in agriculture both with animals and plants.  And some sustainable healthy practices with both animals and plants.


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## reinbeau (Jan 16, 2015)

Serious organic producers do not care what the USDA labels as organic, frankly.  I know there are soybean growers in this country who are growing non-GMO soybeans.  Sourcing them, however, isn't that easy.  I too have seen certified organic soybean oil.  Way too pricey to use in soap.


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## lenarenee (Jan 16, 2015)

HoneyLady said:


> Lard and / or tallow in soaps is wonderful!! Great for your skin.
> 
> Occasionally I run into crunchy granola "Boulder" types who protest. {shrug} Whatever.
> 
> ...


 
Okay, I have to admit that I can't figure out how to quote a single paragraph rather than the entire post.

Animal fat in landfills contributes immensely to the amount of greenhouse gases. Soaping with lard/tallow is greener than palm in my opinion.


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## PinkCupcake (Jan 17, 2015)

When I first started soaping, I only wanted to used vegetable oils. I was strongly against lard or tallow. Then, I decided to try a lard soap. OMG! It's the best, creamy, conditioning soap ever! Lots of soft creamy lather, and a good hard bar. It also seems to slow trace, so that I can do the swirls I like to try. Lard, lard, lard, how I love thee!


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## HoneyLady (Jan 19, 2015)

Yes . . . sigh.  The USDA "organic" label is tricky, and politically iffy.

USDA does NOT certify ANY oils as organic or not, IF they are produced in the USA.  Soy beans can be organic, but the oil made from them is not covered.  They say they have no jurisdiction to do so.  HOWEVER . . . if the oil is produced elsewhere, and imported, and makes claims as organic, the USDA will grant the USDA label on it.

They claim since they have no jurisdiction in other countries, and can't PROVE that it ISN"T organic, they "have to" grant the label anyway.

 :shock: :evil:

Same thing with honey.  There are only *2* US producers who make USDA organic honey.  One in Hawaii, and one on the Olympic WA peninsula.  (You have to be able to certify that all the stuff your bees forage on is organic to be granted that label.  Bees fly in a 6 mile radius from the hive, meaning some 7000 odd acres has to be certified organic.  Ouch.)

If you see any other honey (almost all of it) with a USDA organic label it is IMPORTED from outside the US.  Related, over 4 million pounds of "Manuka" honey is sold worldwide each year.  New Zealand (the only producer) states that only about 2 million pounds are able to be produced every year.  Hmmmm.

Lies, **** lies, and statistics, as Mr. Mark Twain said.

I like lard soap.  It is soooo creamy and soothing.  Wow.  Tallow is not quite as creamy, but golly does it make a hard bar!

Peace, Honey, and creamy bubblies!
~HoneyLady


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## Susie (Jan 19, 2015)

HoneyLady~Wow, I would love to get a bunch of shanks and such for stock and tallow!  You were so fortunate!


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## IrishLass (Jan 19, 2015)

lenarenee said:


> Okay, I have to admit that I can't figure out how to quote a single paragraph rather than the entire post.


 
Lenarenee- just click on 'quote' as you would normally do, then delete all the paragraphs in the quote until you are left with only the paragraph that you want to remain.


IrishLass


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