# Lye burn and the aftermath...



## Stacyspy (Jan 4, 2016)

First off... Happy New Year! 
Due to this stupid hand, I've been unable to soap for quite some time, and it made me fairly depressed to see everyone's lovely work, so I haven't been on much lately.
At some point, apparently I had a small tear in one of my gloves in between my pinky and ring fingers. Unfortunately, for a while, it was misdiagnosed. It went away, mostly, but returned more than once. I don't want to gross any of you out, but please, check your gloves each and every time you put them on!!
I'm hoping to get the ok from the Dr. to start soaping this week. 
On a wonderful note, my husband (whom I love very much, but he works on the 2 year plan to get anything done...lol), emptied out what is going to be my workshop!!! So I've been cleaning and painting!


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## galaxyMLP (Jan 4, 2016)

Oh  my goodness!! That does not look good! I hope you are not in too much pain and I admire your soaping spirit. 

Yes, checking gloves is so important. Sometimes we forget that checking PPE is just as important as remembering to put it on! Thank you for this reminder. 

Please do feel better soon!!


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## shunt2011 (Jan 4, 2016)

Oh dear, sorry that happened.  A good reminder to check out everything when soaping.  Fee better soon!


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## cmzaha (Jan 4, 2016)

Oh my goodness Stacy, that is very ugly and mean looking.  Did you end up with some complications healing or the normal slow healing of a burn? Hopefully it will be completely healed soon and you can get back to what you like to do. Lye just has no mercy when it hits our skin and it makes one wonder why some folks choose to soap without gloves.


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## Serene (Jan 4, 2016)

Ack!  I will be checking my gloves.   So sorry this happened to you.   Hopefully it wont be much longer for you to get back to soaping.  Congratulations on your new space.  I would love to see some pictures when possible and if you have time.

Sere


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## dixiedragon (Jan 4, 2016)

Ouch! Hope you get well soon!


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## Stacyspy (Jan 4, 2016)

It's more just annoying now...lol...hopefully the worst of the pain has passed. I think the healing process has been prolonged because the first Dr I went to diagnosed it as poison oak... I know I will be fairly paranoid from now on...



cmzaha said:


> Oh my goodness Stacy, that is very ugly and mean looking.  Did you end up with some complications healing or the normal slow healing of a burn? Hopefully it will be completely healed soon and you can get back to what you like to do. Lye just has no mercy when it hits our skin and it makes one wonder why some folks choose to soap without gloves.


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## Deedles (Jan 4, 2016)

OUCH! Good thoughts for quick healing.


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## Stacyspy (Jan 4, 2016)

Thanks all for the well wishes! I'm going to believe the worst is over, and that things will only get better from here!


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## TheDragonGirl (Jan 4, 2016)

Yikes, get better soon! I hope it heals well


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## dibbles (Jan 4, 2016)

Oh dear. I truly hope it heals soon, and stays that way. Thank you for posting - we can't have too many reminders. I always wear gloves, but now I will be checking them carefully.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jan 4, 2016)

Blimey! That's a really bad one. Glad it's on the mend


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## IrishLass (Jan 4, 2016)

Ouch! Praying for a speedy healing!


IrishLass


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## MySoapyHeart (Jan 4, 2016)

Ack! 
Feel better, that was a nasty one, but glad it is getting better.


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## Relle (Jan 4, 2016)

Nasty, I think I can feel your pain. Ooooo


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## Arimara (Jan 4, 2016)

I liked your photo because it's a reminder of just what can happen if we are careless with lye or lye solution (or in your case, an accident happens). I think this is a good photo to drive home some of the  seriousness of our craft to fool hardy people who want to learn to soap but are too lazy to do their research. On that note, I wish you the best of recoveries. That looks like it hurt like a beast. :cry:


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## MrsSpaceship (Jan 4, 2016)

Oh ow!  My hands started hurting looking at this, but really I can't begin to imagine how much it must hurt.
Are you habitually around poison oak in the middle of winter so that was a valid diagnosis? That just seems so odd. 
I hope that your recovery is speedy now that you've gotten the correct diagnosis and treatment.


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## snappyllama (Jan 4, 2016)

Oh my goodness, OUCH! I hope your hand heals up quickly.


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## Steve85569 (Jan 4, 2016)

That right there is why I buy and use disposable gloves. By the box. Once the lye has "taken root" there is very little that can be safely done. 

Prayers for quick healing and rest in the mean time.
Thank you for posting the painful reminder.


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## Susie (Jan 4, 2016)

Steve85569 said:


> That right there is why I buy and use disposable gloves. By the box.



^This.  No need risking big owies like that.

You have my thoughts and prayers.


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## CaraBou (Jan 4, 2016)

Yikes! Didn't you feel it when the lye hit your skin?  You must not be very sensitive.


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## Stacyspy (Jan 4, 2016)

Oddly enough, I didn't feel it. I have a pretty high tolerance, but I thought I would've noticed something like that. It very first appeared beneath my replacement wedding band- while mine was in the shop, so I just assumed it had contained some nickel, as I have a slight allergy. Within 48 hours it looked like the photo, and hurt something awful. 



CaraBou said:


> Yikes! Didn't you feel it when the lye hit your skin?  You must not be very sensitive.


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## JayJay (Jan 4, 2016)

Yowsers! 

That looks absolutely awful.  I'm so sorry that this happened to you... And that you were misdiagnosed. That really stinks!

It could happen to any of us. I never notice a break in my gloves until I feel my hands sliding around with moisture. I use disposable gloves and get breaks just about every time that I soap.  

One time, a little bit of batter got inside of my glove but I was able to rinse rinse rinse like crazy before a burn set in. I think it helps that the break happened on the palm side of my finger where the skin is thicker and heals rapidly.  I had some dead skin but nothing appearing to be a burn.

This is making me wonder what really is a sufficient level of hand protection. Should we be wearing disposables inside of dishwashing gloves? 

Yikes.


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## Stacyspy (Jan 4, 2016)

The 2nd Dr I saw actually laughed when I said I was told it was poison...until he realized I wasn't joking... 
The first Dr I went to never did any tests, never even looked at it, said the nurse told him it looked like poison, gave me antibiotics and steroid pills and sent me on my way. I finally managed to get an appt with my family Dr. who told me up front he didn't know what it was...so after tests, cultures, swabs and biopsies they finally decided it was a chemical burn, and sent me to a dermatologist.



MrsSpaceship said:


> Oh ow!  My hands started hurting looking at this, but really I can't begin to imagine how much it must hurt.
> Are you habitually around poison oak in the middle of winter so that was a valid diagnosis? That just seems so odd.
> I hope that your recovery is speedy now that you've gotten the correct diagnosis and treatment.


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## Rowan (Jan 12, 2016)

Wow that looks so painful. Really hope it's healing now? Bless you for a great reminder that safety is so important.


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## regansoap (Jan 21, 2016)

Gosh that's scarey I've had lye burns but they just itch for a while and go away.  Looks like it's got trapped between your skin and glove and had a while to really burn you - nasty hope it gets better soon.


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## pjones (Jan 27, 2016)

So now I'm curious on people's opinions. Is it better to go gloveless so you instantly know when you get something on your hand and can immediately tend to it or wear gloves and possibly get burned because some leaks into a glove unknowingly? I know when I wear gloves for any length of time my hands get sweaty and I can no longer differentiate what is sweat and what is accidental  contamination, if my hands are dry though then I instantly know. 

How long does it actually take for lye solution to damage the skin? That's a serious question. I ask because I don't know (and would rather not preform my own experiment on this one). This question alone may provide an answer to the above. 

So now, is it a question of "when is safe too safe"? Are we wearing so much protection that it's actually less safe? or is it more a question about "what is the right product for protection"? Too thick of gloves and you risk more spills, too thin and they may break...


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jan 27, 2016)

This is why I wear disposables.  When I am finished, I wash my hands.  If there is enough of a leak that anything major would happen in that time, I would feel it.  Next time I go with new gloves.  This really makes sense - I found that thicker "marigolds" made it harder to soap and then started to break which would be an issue.

This particular case was caused by reusing gloves with a hole - just enough caustic was getting through to irritate and the following mis-diagnosis meant that the same hole was allowing multiple "applications" of the caustic.

If you can see a spill on your gloveless hand to know to clean it, you can see it on gloves too - I don't leave spills on my gloves for the whole time, I was my gloved hands as soon as possible - mainly because I don't want to then transfer lye/batter around the place.  If there is a hole in the glove that would let it in, you would feel it as if it was on the hand.

So, no - I would not suggest going without gloves.


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## galaxyMLP (Jan 27, 2016)

I also do not suggest going without gloves. You should always check for holes in your PPE. Ive also seen something that does concern me when people soap on youtube (I don't know if anyone does this here).

 Gloves are meant to protect you for a short amount of time from accidental exposures. Key word here is accidental. They are not meant to go with full gusto into the thing you are protecting yourself against. I see people all over youtube that purposely wipe batter from inside of cups to clean out their containers or what have you with their gloved finger. You should not be purposely exposing your hand (gloved or not!) into the batter. Don't wipe up spots on the counter or on your mold with your gloved finger. Use a paper towel or rag to do that. 

 If I feel any slickness on my gloves, I dry them with a paper towel.  When I get any sizable amount of batter on my gloves, I stop what I'm doing and go rinse. If I can't do that (lets say I'm mid pour/mid swirl) I stop as soon as I can. If I'm wearing my big gloves, and I almost always do, I stop to wash them completely and dry them. If I'm wearing nitrile gloves, I toss them mid soaping and don new gloves that I check. 

Maybe I'm over cautious but I work in the chemical industry. This is the common practice. You don't keep gloves on that become contaminated for any length of time. Sometimes that's not possible but, when I soap, I have control of what I can and can't do.

If you're sweating a lot in your gloves, you may need to go up a size. It should be comfortable and not constricting. I do know that some people sweat a lot and it can't be helped but I thought I'd put it out there.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 27, 2016)

I do pretty much the same as Galaxy, because I've worked in the chemical industry too. I now wear heavier duty nitrile gloves (thicker than the usual exam gloves but thinner than dishwashing gloves). I wipe and rinse the gloves off as needed. I would normally replace the thinner exam gloves after every soaping session, and I replace these thicker ones after every 2 or 3 sessions or anytime I think the gloves might have been damaged.

Lye in the concentrations used for soaping will cause a burn to the skin or eyes within seconds. It makes absolutely no difference if you're soaping with 25% lye concentration or 50%. The damage happens FAST, and you only have a short time to react to a lye splash. Gloves, eye protection, apron, and closed shoes are all worn to protect against a small splash and to give you enough time to react properly to a large exposure.

If you refuse to wear any other PPE, I strongly recommend wearing goggles or a face shield. Eyeglasses aren't enough -- they don't protect against a splash to the top of your head that drips down into your eyes. Lye can cause a serious permanent eye injury in just seconds ... your eyes are so vulnerable!


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## Stacyspy (Jan 27, 2016)

I would never soap without PPE...ever. I use the disposable black nitrile gloves. After trying several different types, they seem to work best for me....most of the time...lol... But seriously, there's always a chance of a defect. I've used pesticides, herbicides, and other chemicals for many years, and I think any initial discomfort I felt from the lye wasn't "bad" enough in comparison to other irritations to worry me.
In addition, I wear goggles and long sleeves. I am guilty of not wearing proper footwear most of the time ( flip flops are my go to footwear)
I also watch soaping videos and cringe when I see folks without gloves and goggles...


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## Susie (Jan 27, 2016)

I'm a nurse, so I would never, ever suggest anyone do without PPE.  I double glove with nitrile gloves every time I soap.  When the outer pair get "dirty", I just pull that glove off and keep on going with the pair underneath.  Which is what nurses do in most situations that may be prone to glove contamination.  I have even been known to triple glove with some procedures.

I do, however, weigh out everything except the lye and get everything set up before putting the gloves on.  That way, I am in them as little time as possible without sacrificing my safety.


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## Stacyspy (Jan 27, 2016)

Duh... why did I never think of 2 pair? If it was something I did to rupture the glove, that would've fixed it. Thank you  



Stacyspy said:


> I would never soap without PPE...ever. I use the disposable black nitrile gloves. After trying several different types, they seem to work best for me....most of the time...lol... But seriously, there's always a chance of a defect. I've used pesticides, herbicides, and other chemicals for many years, and I think any initial discomfort I felt from the lye wasn't "bad" enough in comparison to other irritations to worry me.
> In addition, I wear goggles and long sleeves. I am guilty of not wearing proper footwear most of the time ( flip flops are my go to footwear)
> I also watch soaping videos and cringe when I see folks without gloves and goggles...





Susie said:


> I'm a nurse, so I would never, ever suggest anyone do without PPE.  I double glove with nitrile gloves every time I soap.  When the outer pair get "dirty", I just pull that glove off and keep on going with the pair underneath.  Which is what nurses do in most situations that may be prone to glove contamination.  I have even been known to triple glove with some procedures.
> 
> I do, however, weigh out everything except the lye and get everything set up before putting the gloves on.  That way, I am in them as little time as possible without sacrificing my safety.


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## HoneyLady (Jan 27, 2016)

I also double glove.  It just makes it all simpler.  I double glove when I work my bees, because down here in south TX, we do run into Africanized bees, and they can sting THROUGH a glove.  So when I started soaping, I just doubled up off the bat.

Everybody had a "thing" -- nails on a chalkboard, the sound of gum chewing, etc.  My thing is the feeling of grease/oil/sticky on my hands.  I just can't stand it.  If I feel stuff on my hands, I just have to stop, wash, and come back.

Never had a lye burn, but have had poison ivy really bad.  Yuck.  I'm more and more convinced, based on my own, and other's stories, that ER docs are not really the most thoughtful/helpful people UNLESS you have a sucking chest wound, heart attack, or limb dangling.  Their record on things like kidney stones, appendicitis, severe bladder infections, is so-so.

Glad you're going to be okay!

~HL~


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## DeeAnna (Jan 27, 2016)

Susie brings up a good point -- do as many tasks first as you can that don't need gloves and goggles and only then get geared up for the work that does need PPE. 

I always wear an apron and shoes when doing anything for soaping even without lye being an issue -- I've been known to splash oil and other stuff on myself and drop heavy jugs on my feet.


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## galaxyMLP (Jan 27, 2016)

HoneyLady said:


> Everybody had a "thing" -- nails on a chalkboard, the sound of gum chewing, etc.  My thing is the feeling of grease/oil/sticky on my hands.  I just can't stand it.  If I feel stuff on my hands, I just have to stop, wash, and come back.
> ~HL~



I also DESPISE this feeling. I don't mind lotions or even body butters but straight oils just make me feel gross.




Susie said:


> I'm a nurse, so I would never, ever suggest anyone do without PPE.  I double glove with nitrile gloves every time I soap.  When the outer pair get "dirty", I just pull that glove off and keep on going with the pair underneath.  Which is what nurses do in most situations that may be prone to glove contamination.  I have even been known to triple glove with some procedures.
> 
> I do, however, weigh out everything except the lye and get everything set up before putting the gloves on.  That way, I am in them as little time as possible without sacrificing my safety.



This is very smart. I never thought of double gloving. I may have to try it the next time I soap.


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## gigisiguenza (Jan 27, 2016)

I can't imagine working with anything with lye in it without gloves. Lye still makes me nervous every time I use it, so it's a given I'm wearing gear.

My hands do sweat inside my gloves, and I'm always worried about leaks, so I've taken to wearing the very thin disposable gloves (like they use in food prep at subway) under a pair of nitril or latex. And I bought my nitril gloves a size up to ensure they aren't too tight (less sweating). I've found that this double layer makes me feel safer, and on the rare occasion that my nitril has either ripped or been pierced without my noticing, the layer underneath kept the batter off my skin. As soon as I see my gloves compromised, I strip off both pairs as soon as I'm able, wash and dry my hands, and Don new gloves.

I just can't understand why people don't appreciate the danger of what we as soapers work with. Lye is not a toy, it's dangerous, and even in soap batter, it can burn badly. What is the value of saving money on gloves, or convenience/comfort by going gloveless, if the risk of harm is raised significantly?

Makes no sense to me. I'll buy my cheap gloves, double up, and be safe. 

It's cheaper than a doctor or ER Bill for sure.


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## SomethingGoodAustin (Jan 27, 2016)

Oh, WOW. I am so sorry this happened to you! 

I am guilty of all of the above-mentioned safety infractions, and possibly more. Flip-flops instead of regular shoes, tank tops (summer in Texas, y'all) instead of sleeves, taking off my gloves when I'm trying to maneuver a slightly slippery pot, even taking off or forgetting to put back on my goggles when I stop to measure additives... I've been super lucky so far, I guess. 

I think separating out the non-goggle/glove activities from the goggle/glove activities is an excellent idea, as is double-gloving. I also need to look for smaller outer gloves, since mine are difficult to work in. 

Again, I am so sorry this happened to you, but I thank you so much for posting!


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## LittleCrazyWolf (Jan 27, 2016)

I'm glad you're on the mend and I'm glad you shared your story. It really reinforces how careful we need to be. I mean, here you are using proper safety precautions and you were still injured due to a small overlooked rip in your glove. 

I have had a small lye burn but mine was due to plain stupidity. After a soaping session, I used my bare hand to pick up and move a used soaping bowl. I didn't realize that the itchy feeling under my fingernail was actually the beginning of a lye burn until it actually started to burn. The underside of my fingernail was raw by the time I ran to the sink and got my hand under running water. I learned my lesson for sure.

The other day I ran across a pic of a lady doing a soap demonstration for a small group. I immediately showed my husband and asked him if he saw anything wrong with the picture. After a few seconds he said, "she's all suited up but none of the other people are." Bingo. Some of those people were leaning closer to watch her use the stick blender. None looked to be out of splatter range.


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