# Experience of anorexic dog? Anyone?



## Sonya-m (Jul 26, 2016)

My dog has recently been diagnosed with kidney disease so was placed on a prescription renal diet which means it's low protein, high fat as his kidneys can't process protein. He was doing well on it then last Wednesday our neighbours dog bit him. Ever since then he has refused all food. The vet has ruled out an infection from the bite and is treating him with steroids to try make him hungry. He's also taking ranitidine for a suspected but not confirmed stomach ulcer. He's lost so much weight in the last 6 days and I just know we're losing him but I'm not ready for that at all. He's only 5, he should have years ahead of him. I managed to purée some food today and get some into him but not much and that's obviously not a long term fix. Any ideas? Bearing in mind the dietary restrictions??


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## dixiedragon (Jul 26, 2016)

I'm so sorry for your pet! That's just awful.

Maybe do some googling - foods for dogs with kidney disease, high-calorie foods for dogs, etc. Then ask your vet which he things would be okay?

Perhaps get some beef bones and boil them down for broth? lots of fat in that!


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## shunt2011 (Jul 26, 2016)

I'm so sorry....that's so sad and so hard.  Even harder when they are so young.  Hope you find something the furbaby will eat.


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## TeresaT (Jul 26, 2016)

I'm so sorry about your dog.   Have you tried sweet potatoes?  My dogs love sweet potatoes and they're fairly inexpensive.  If that's something your dog ends up liking, maybe you can get him to eat his prescription food by adding some pureed sweet potatoes to it.


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## dixiedragon (Jul 26, 2016)

It may be helpful to offer small amounts multiple times a day of multiple things. My mom's dog towards the end of her life would only eat cheesy scrambled eggs and hot dogs. Not ideal by any means.


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## DeeAnna (Jul 26, 2016)

Those prescription diets just don't taste or smell good, especially to a critter who is in frail health to begin with. One thing that has worked okay when a cat or dog is really sickly is to offer chicken broth. It smells good and adds hydration. Sometimes just getting them to eat or drink SOMETHING -- even just a tiny bite or a little lick every half hour -- is the key to turning the appetite back on. 

If a critter won't eat on its own, I will sit with my sick pup or kitty and hand feed the food from my fingers with lots of gentle reinforcement for every bite swallowed. And if they won't eat the special diet but will eat other foods, I will break the rules and feed what they will eat until they get back on track again. Kidney disease is no joke, but starving to death is even worse. :cry:


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## Rusti (Jul 26, 2016)

Ask your vet about A/D - it's high calorie, super palatable and is kind of a last resort to the ones we're trying desperately to coax into eating. It's not meant for the long term, but it might help you get your pup back on his food again. You can also try things like boiled chicken and rice to get him going. Hand feed for a day or two if you need to.

Kidney critters as a general rule seem to have appetite problems. I have a CRF 18 year old cat I've been managing for the past couple of years (the chronic renal failure being the sort that's more manageable. What you describe sounds acute. 5 years old? Is your dog a Dane or other giant breed?) and only recently have I been able to convince her to finish all her dinner so I'm hoping she'll put some weight back on.


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## Lee242 (Jul 26, 2016)

[FONT=&quot]Try spaghetti. I'm not sure what the protein in it is but I haven't had a dog that wouldn't eat it.
Hope you find something for him.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]


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## galaxyMLP (Jul 26, 2016)

What about chicken or beef fat? Like if you boiled chicken skin, and froze it to take off the fat on top. Maybe also feeding the broth? Or the same with some high fat beef. That would be high fat but low protein and would probably smell/taste good. 

You could strain out the actual chicken or beef and cook it into something else for yourself so you don't waste it.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 26, 2016)

dixiedragon said:


> I'm so sorry for your pet! That's just awful.
> 
> Maybe do some googling - foods for dogs with kidney disease, high-calorie foods for dogs, etc. Then ask your vet which he things would be okay?
> 
> Perhaps get some beef bones and boil them down for broth? lots of fat in that!




I made a renal dog food last night that I found on the Internet. Beef mince, sweet potato, green beans, rice, egg whites and coconut oil. He ate maybe a spoon then walked away. It was that I puréed today and syringed into his mouth so he had had something today


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## Sonya-m (Jul 26, 2016)

DeeAnna said:


> Those prescription diets just don't taste or smell good, especially to a critter who is in frail health to begin with. One thing that has worked okay when a cat or dog is really sickly is to offer chicken broth. It smells good and adds hydration. Sometimes just getting them to eat or drink SOMETHING -- even just a tiny bite or a little lick every half hour -- is the key to turning the appetite back on.
> 
> If a critter won't eat on its own, I will sit with my sick pup or kitty and hand feed the food from my fingers with lots of gentle reinforcement for every bite swallowed. And if they won't eat the special diet but will eat other foods, I will break the rules and feed what they will eat until they get back on track again. Kidney disease is no joke, but starving to death is even worse. :cry:




The odd thing is he seemed to love his prescription food until last Wednesday when it was like someone switched off his appetite. Before then he was eating everything we put in front of him. He was getting both dry and wet prescription food bulked up with pasta and olive oil. Since the dog bit him he just won't eat. He is still drinking water though - thankfully. 

I've tried sitting with him to feed him, he just turns his head away from me. 

I've also broken rules and have given him his favourite biscuits - custard creams - but I do need to be careful not to give him too much that he's not allowed. 

This is the first dog I've had, how do people get other dogs after losing one? I don't think I could do this again. I know we're losing him and there's nothing I can do.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 26, 2016)

Lee242 said:


> [FONT=&quot]Try spaghetti. I'm not sure what the protein in it is but I haven't had a dog that wouldn't eat it.
> Hope you find something for him.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]




He was eating pasta with his food but just won't touch it now.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 26, 2016)

galaxyMLP said:


> What about chicken or beef fat? Like if you boiled chicken skin, and froze it to take off the fat on top. Maybe also feeding the broth? Or the same with some high fat beef. That would be high fat but low protein and would probably smell/taste good.
> 
> You could strain out the actual chicken or beef and cook it into something else for yourself so you don't waste it.




The meal I made for him last night was with the high fat mince - had a spoonful then nothing. 

I think he wants to eat but something is making him not


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## galaxyMLP (Jul 26, 2016)

Well then, I guess enticing foods are out of the options. I think the syringe feeding was probably a great idea. 

My dog stopped drinking water for a few days, and when I noticed it, I tried to encourage her to drink. When she wouldn't, I ended up filling a pipette with water and just dribbling it in her mouth. She didn't drink that much that night but I did it again when I woke up in the morning and she was drinking on her own that night. 

Maybe encouragement and syringe feeding for a few days might jump start his appetite to eat on his own? 

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this. My first dog is getting up there in age and it's so hard seeing her deteriorate. I hope your buddy gets to eating again soon!


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## Dahila (Jul 26, 2016)

Sonya a free run egg just yolk and add a few drops of good cognac ,  give it to your dog drop buy drop,   ............sometimes they make their choice when they are in pain, they do not eat.  I had breed and judged dogs for years.   It seems that your dog lost his zest for life.  He needs some protein.   I kind of not believing in vets' they are here to make money , a lot of money.  When they make a mistake they have no consequences.  
I wonder if it is more mental than physical, do not get me wrong but talk to him whisper ,,,,,,,,,, try the egg...........it had work in past , I had many dogs and a lot of experience
I forgot to add tat I  probably love animals much more than people.............


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## Rusti (Jul 26, 2016)

Did the vet do a kidney panel to check his numbers to see if they'd spiked?


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## Dahila (Jul 26, 2016)

I had this expierence when my 3 years old dog got pancreas cancer.   I hope it is not case with yours.  I do not think the dog bite influence his appetite


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## DeeAnna (Jul 26, 2016)

You are linking his loss of appetite to the dog attack. Could there be something wrong with his mouth, teeth, or throat? Perhaps an injury that's been overlooked that makes it hard for him to chew or swallow? 

I'm reminded of a couple of my dogs who have bitten across a small stick and broke the free ends off. The part of the stick between their teeth became wedged in place between the teeth. They will lose their appetite due to the discomfort. Solution was to open the mouth and pull the stick loose. Then life went back to normal.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 26, 2016)

Rusti said:


> Did the vet do a kidney panel to check his numbers to see if they'd spiked?




Yeah they did that today, his urea (BUN) has gone from 7.2 to 16.4 but my vet tells me this is still within a range they would at worst class is low/moderately reduced renal function. And his creatinine has gone from 184 to 224. Again the vet said it up but not to a dangerous level. 

My friend has just been round and she had some dog treats which he probably shouldn't have but I gave three to him to try and he ate them straight away. I don't get it - he just will not eat any meal I give him but he will eat these? I don't believe he didn't like his prescription food - from day 1 till last Wednesday he ate every scrap of it - there's been no slowly decreasing appetite just this sudden stop.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 26, 2016)

DeeAnna said:


> You are linking his loss of appetite to the dog attack. Could there be something wrong with his mouth, teeth, or throat? Perhaps an injury that's been overlooked that makes it hard for him to chew or swallow?
> 
> I'm reminded of a couple of my dogs who have bitten across a small stick and broke the free ends off. The part of the stick between their teeth became wedged in place between the teeth. They will lose their appetite due to the discomfort. Solution was to open the mouth and pull the stick loose. Then life went back to normal.




The vet checked all of his neck etc last week. He's still happily running around with toys/tennis balls in his mouth. I'm at a complete loss


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## lenarenee (Jul 26, 2016)

Do you know that vets disagree on kidney disease management? So consult with many veterinarians. Find canine kidney disease websites.

This is for cats, but was an endless source of info for me: http://www.felinecrf.org/  I don't know how it translates to dogs...but it can give you a starting place for asking questions.

For 4 years I dealt with inappetance. I bought every single type, brand, style, flavor of cat food I could find. What worked one day, didn't necessarily work the next day. So don't stop trying food your dog didn't eat yesterday. 

However...shoving food in front of him a hundred times a day won't help. Try to choose wisely...chicken once, beef next. It's difficult, I know. 

Look into force or tube feeding. Sometimes once your pet gets a few decent meals the appetite recovers.

There is a Rx food for recovery. It's not a kidney disease food. But the recovery food is packed with nutrition and a little of it goes a long way. My cat almost always ate it.

Before my cat died (2 yrs ago, but NOT from kidney disease!) the current research was suggesting that the_ amount_ of protein was not a problem, it was the _quality/type_ of protein. I don't remember the intricacies of that, but something for you to research. (Perhaps pinpointing the exact amino acids types?)

In hindsight, the best vets told me to feed whatever she would eat. She rarely ate the Rx kidney food, which stressed me and her to the max. Force feeding her demoralized her. I quit. I put myself in her shoes - I would choose quality of life over longevity and decided that's what I wanted for her. 

For most of her last 4 years she ate crappy Fancy Feast. The last few months of her life appetite was a constant struggle. Cat treats and cooked liver kept her alive and comfortable. The liver is rich, and yes full of protein - but high in calories and a little went a long way. 

Crumbling your dog's favorite and most smelly treats on top of food might help? 

For cats, it was recommended to place food on plates, and to remove it after a reasonable time if not eaten. The constant smell of food in the house can be off-putting - especially with the digestive issues that come with kidney disease.

Can dogs have something other than rantidine?

That's all the ideas I have for now. 
Are there ulcers in the mouth (another kidney problem)

Hand feeding - sounds like you've tried it. Maybe time to stop, for a day, then try again?


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## BlackDog (Jul 26, 2016)

I'm so sorry you're going through this, Sonya.  Even just reading about animals in pain puts a lump in my throat.  Most of the ideas I had have been suggested.  If it were my dog (everyone's pooch has different idiosyncrasies with foods they like) I would probably melt some lard and drizzle it on spaghetti.  I'd also try a little ice cream (full fat, the only kind that counts :mrgreen Best of luck!  I hope your pup is eating again soon.


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## snappyllama (Jul 26, 2016)

Poor guy!

Whenever my dog has been on a restricted diet, she loves rice cooked in chicken broth, tiny bits of bacon drippings, or mashed up with canned pumpkin. I'd make up a several day batch and just portion it out to save on prep time. 

One thing... it's always easiest to convince my dog, Miss Beadie, that something is fantastic with a lot of acting. "OMG THIS IS THE BEST THING FOR THE BEST DOG EVER - WHO WANTS A JOINT SUPPLEMENT? MISS BEADIE DOES!!!!" and make her do her "treat-tricks" like sitting pretty. She now thinks her joint supplement pill is the best thing on earth. Of course, your dog might be a little brighter than mine...

Good luck!


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## Sonya-m (Jul 26, 2016)

Thanks everyone. I'll try the rice cooked in chicken broth and will add maybe some beef mince and puréed sweet potato. I need to keep his phosphorus levels down so have to be really careful. 

Think we're also going to take him to a different vet for another opinion. 

SL - I've done the pretending it's s treat thing, he was having none of it!! I've even tried turning it into a game by rolling pieces of his prescription food over the floor to him. He ate a few bits then figured out he was eating so stopped.


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## Arimara (Jul 26, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> This is the first dog I've had, how do people get other dogs after losing one? I don't think I could do this again. I know we're losing him and there's nothing I can do.



For some people, adopting dogs (and cats) and giving them the best life they could is well worth the pain of eventually losing them. Even if an owner had to feed their dog the crap from a convenience store, that dog is still better off than in a shelter with other animals. Lenarenee offered some good advice- do some additional research and contact multiple vets. I don't know how vets are where you live, but I only trust them for injured pets. where diet is concerned, I believe in a more holistic approach than that of Purina or Science Diet. I've heard many people say their sick pets thrived on holistic foods and even raw diets. But research is a must before taking drastic measures. 



Dahila said:


> Sonya a free run egg just yolk and add a few drops of good cognac ,  give it to your dog drop buy drop,   ............sometimes they make their choice when they are in pain, they do not eat.  I had breed and judged dogs for years.   It seems that your dog lost his zest for life.  He needs some protein.   I kind of not believing in vets' they are here to make money , a lot of money.  When they make a mistake they have no consequences.
> I wonder if it is more mental than physical, do not get me wrong but talk to him whisper ,,,,,,,,,, try the egg...........it had work in past , I had many dogs and a lot of experience
> I forgot to add tat I  probably love animals much more than people.............



I totally agree with you. I just wish I could get into caring for dogs the way I can with cats or I could be of better help here.


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## Guspuppy (Jul 26, 2016)

I think someone mentioned this before, but bone broth is super good for ailing dogs. Use any kind of bones you have or can get easily - beef marrow bones or I have bought turkey backs/necks at the grocery store and cooked those. Put the bones in a crockpot, fill with water, and cook overnight. Add a quarter cup of apple cider vinegar before cooking, this enhances the minerals to be drawn from the bones into the broth. My dog had some stomach upset/liver problems due to not metabolizing doxy (at all) when he was diagnosed with Lyme, the bone broth worked wonders for getting him eating. I'm not sure how phosphorus plays into bone broth so maybe you'd want to check that out before making some. I feel for you and wish you the best in getting your dog eating again and on the road to recovery, or at least stabilized!


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## Sonya-m (Jul 26, 2016)

Thanks - just did some research into the bone broth and unfortunately bones are high in phosphorus so a no go


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## dibbles (Jul 26, 2016)

Sonya, I am so sorry you have to face this. I don't have any suggestions, but wanted to let you know I'll be thinking of you. I think you said there aren't any sores or any inflammation in his mouth. I've heard pumpkin is like candy to dogs. 

We lost a 3 year old lab, and what we and the vets think, was that he inhaled a grass awn which lodged in his lung and caused a massive infection. He pretty much lost his appetite. Our vet suggested boiled ground beef and rice. He did eat that.

I hope your buddy turns around soon.


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## gdawgs (Jul 26, 2016)

Sorry to hear about your dog.

I'm no help with dogs, but we do have an anorexic son and I can tell you that was pure hell.  By far the worst thing we've ever experienced.  He is completely recovered now and doing awesome.

I hope your dog recovers soon.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 27, 2016)

He's taken a turn for the worse overnight. There is vomit and diarrhoea all over and he can't keep water down now but is still trying to drink. I'm going to take him to the vets again but I think we're going to be told to say goodbye to him. I can't deal with this but need to do right by him.


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## shunt2011 (Jul 27, 2016)

Sending thoughts and prayers your way. I'm so sorry!


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## TDS (Jul 27, 2016)

I'm so sorry you and your furbaby have to go through this. My heartfelt prayers are with you both!!


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## dixiedragon (Jul 27, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> This is the first dog I've had, how do people get other dogs after losing one? I don't think I could do this again. I know we're losing him and there's nothing I can do.


 
This made me tear up. I've had dogs my whole life - literally the only time I haven't lived with a dog is 4 years in college.

Its really hard to lose them. I think it's a bit easier for me, since I've known my whole life - both intellectually AND emotionally - that the dog will only be here for a little while. This pet will only be a chapter in my book. 

"They don't know their lives are short, only that they are full."

It makes it easier when you have more than one. you don't go from coming to slobbery kisses to coming home to quiet.


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## Rusti (Jul 27, 2016)

Oh, Sonya, I'm sorry. This is the hardest part of pet ownership even though we all know it's going to end way before we want it to (unless you happen to get a tortoise or a parrot).

I hope they can get him sorted for you but if it doesn't work out that way, all my sympathy.


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## dixiedragon (Jul 27, 2016)

Sonya, I'm so so sorry. Please know that you gave him a good life, even if it was shorter than you'd hoped for.  I am crying for you and your dog.


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## dibbles (Jul 27, 2016)

I'm so sorry :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:


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## mrsserena (Jul 27, 2016)

It sounds like maybe he ate something he shouldn't have - did the vet do x-rays? Maybe he has some foreign object stuck in his digestive system?


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## earlene (Jul 27, 2016)

I am so very saddened by this.  Losing my Phaedra (doberman) to breastfeeding cancer was the hardest thing I had ever faced when I was a young woman.  We had been pregnant together and just had a very special bond.  I am hoping for peace and comfort for you both.


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## snappyllama (Jul 27, 2016)

I'm so sorry, Sonya.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 27, 2016)

The vet has given him an injection to stop the sickness and nausea to see if that helps convince him to eat. Also gave us some prescription food for malnourished dogs that's not really allowed with his kidney issue but says getting him to eat is much more important right now. He's also taken him off his kidney meds for now as they could be causing the symptoms. He has to go back tomorrow to see if he's eaten and possibly for another injection. Thankfully Buster hasn't vomited since this morning but has passed more blood. He's asleep in the garden where he loves to be at the moment.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 27, 2016)




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## doriettefarm (Jul 27, 2016)

Sending lots of good mojo Buster's way plus a big hug for you Sonya


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## Cindy2428 (Jul 27, 2016)

Prayers for you both Sonya, I know how hard this is:cry:


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## lenarenee (Jul 27, 2016)

You must be scared, exhausted absolutely overwhelmed right now, I'm sorry. 

Sonya, anyone who's had a pet with kidney disease can tell you there are days when you wonder if the end is near - only to be surprised a week later with how well they recover.  I don't want to offer false hope, but I and others I've commiserated with learned not to give up. There's many nuances to the condition and there's a balancing act to finding what works with 
your pet.  

Take notes (with dates)  - on everything. Food, water, mood, energy.

Has the vet mentioned subcutaneous fluids? Vets differ on their importance. My cat seemed to feel better with them.

When this crisis passes, I encourage you to talk with other owners, vets, and find an online support group or forum.  There's no much to learn. This is vital..._its hearing other owners talk about how many times their pets were in dire shape, but then improved...._that taught me not to make assumptions, or give up with this disease.

Never give up until there are no other options - there can be incredible turnarounds with this disease. I dearly hope you're experiencing one this week.  Sending you hugs, lots of support and courage. Keep us informed.


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## TeresaT (Jul 27, 2016)

He is beautiful, Sonya.  What kind of dog is he?


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## MySoapyHeart (Jul 27, 2016)

Oh dear, so sorry for all of this! We had a dog, so know how we really get so attached to our pets. Making sure thay are well cared for, get lots of love, cuddles, making sure they are eating right, being safe, having fun and have lots of room to be just silly, goofy dogs.

But when they get sick... Nothing like the feeling of complete loss of control when nothing really helps. Sending you lots of positive thoughts and hope it turns out all righ in the end <3


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## dixiedragon (Jul 27, 2016)

What a sweetie pie! I want to smush his widdle smush-face!


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## Saponista (Jul 27, 2016)

My cat kept getting kidney infections - they prescribed him special kidney food and he ate it willingly. Every time he did though, he vomited it up within a few hours. I made the decision to take him off it myself as I was seriously concerned about dehydration and weight loss. I wonder if buster's new food has disagreed with him severely too.


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## Dahila (Jul 27, 2016)

Sonya my late dog ate something and she would not stop vomiting,  not eating no drinking at this time.  My friend gave me (pharmacist) gave me few pills for people who can not stop vomiting after chemo, It stopped and I started her on clear liquids for a few days,  She recovered and I had her for another year.  Blessed year.  I hope, that you doggie will recover, I hope in it so much.  To lose a dog is losing a family member and the pain is awful  Sending the warmest thoughts to your pop and to you


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## Sonya-m (Jul 27, 2016)

lenarenee said:


> You must be scared, exhausted absolutely overwhelmed right now, I'm sorry.
> 
> Sonya, anyone who's had a pet with kidney disease can tell you there are days when you wonder if the end is near - only to be surprised a week later with how well they recover.  I don't want to offer false hope, but I and others I've commiserated with learned not to give up. There's many nuances to the condition and there's a balancing act to finding what works with
> your pet.
> ...




I've read so much over the last few days my head is going to pop. I think we're going to do away with the prescription food and make him one of the many renal diets people recommend. 

I've found a Facebook group that has answered many questions but also generated more I need to ask the vet. 

Regarding sub q fluids he's currently drinking ok again and hasn't vomited and had a loose stool since this morning.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 27, 2016)

TeresaT said:


> He is beautiful, Sonya.  What kind of dog is he?




He certainly is! He's a shar pei.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 27, 2016)

The vet said we should give him anything he's willing to eat at the moment without worrying too much about his kidneys since his bloods weren't giving high readings. So he's not really shown an interest in the high calorie food but he has eaten, by himself without coaxing, 3 fish fingers and a custard cream biscuit. I'd made him a renal dog food the other day with rice, beef mince, butternut squash, green beans, sweet potato and egg whites cooked in coconut oil. I've puréed this along with some gravy for taste, fish fingers, Yorkshire puddings and white bread. I've been syringe feeding him this hourly today and so far he hasn't been sick since around 10am. I needed to purée some more tonight - it's in daily portions in the freezer - so I added some of the high calorie vet food to the mix. I put a few spoons of it into his bowl and he ate maybe 2 spoons of it unaided. These are very small steps but I'm pinning all my hopes that's he's gonna come through this.


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## lenarenee (Jul 27, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> I've read so much over the last few days my head is going to pop. I think we're going to do away with the prescription food and make him one of the many renal diets people recommend.
> 
> I've found a Facebook group that has answered many questions but also generated more I need to ask the vet.
> 
> Regarding sub q fluids he's currently drinking ok again and hasn't vomited and had a loose stool since this morning.


 

That is so good to hear!!  

Sub q fluids, in cats, help remove some of the impurities the kidney doesn't, not just dehydration. Just another thing for you to investigate. Not all vets or owners feel they are necessary for that purpose. 

Keep learning Sonya. Deep breaths. Ask lots of questions.


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## Cindy2428 (Jul 27, 2016)

He is so precious - probably a real lover. Good to hear things are slowly improving


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## Saponista (Jul 27, 2016)

I'm so glad you have got him eating something again. I really really hope he starts improving xxxx


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## BlackDog (Jul 27, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> Regarding sub q fluids he's currently drinking ok again and hasn't vomited and had a loose stool since this morning.



That is good to hear!  And thanks for the pics; he is just beautiful!  I love Shar Pei and their smooshy faces.


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## newbie (Jul 27, 2016)

It's so difficult to have a sick pet. It weighs on the heart. I hope your guy comes around.

Have your tried adding something super smelly, since smell is so linked to taste? I was wondering if you got tuna packed in water and then just used the water part over or with his other food. I see he ate some fish so maybe that would appeal, or if you used the oil from a can of sardines, that may go over well too. Wet cat food is often very appealing to dogs and maybe a spoonful or two mixed in would help. 

I've heard of Satin balls being used to put weight on a dog. One assumes they are appealing to dogs. The name drives me mad, but the recipe was named after the dog for whom the owner made the recipe. 

1 lb cheap hamburger (for high fat %)
1 and 1/3 cups Total cereal
1 and 1/2 cups uncooked oatmeal
1 raw egg
6 Tablespoons wheat germ
1 package Knox unflavored gelatin
2 Tablespoons vegetable oil
2 Tablespoons unsulfured molasses
Pinch of salt


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## Arimara (Jul 27, 2016)

TeresaT said:


> He is beautiful, Sonya.  What kind of dog is he?



He looks like a shar pei to me.

Oops, Didn't see the extra page.


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## dibbles (Jul 27, 2016)

He's adorable. Good to hear he's eating a little.


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## Arimara (Jul 27, 2016)

It just dawned on me- Would tripe be out of the question, Sonya? I know it's a stinky food but many dogs love it.


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## lenarenee (Jul 27, 2016)

newbie said:


> It's so difficult to have a sick pet. It weighs on the heart. I hope your guy comes around.
> 
> Have your tried adding something super smelly, since smell is so linked to taste? I was wondering if you got tuna packed in water and then just used the water part over or with his other food. I see he ate some fish so maybe that would appeal, or if you used the oil from a can of sardines, that may go over well too. Wet cat food is often very appealing to dogs and maybe a spoonful or two mixed in would help.
> 
> ...



She may need to check the amount of phosphorus in the cereals.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 28, 2016)

newbie said:


> It's so difficult to have a sick pet. It weighs on the heart. I hope your guy comes around.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I've tried the tuna juice thing but he just tried to lick up just the juice. 

I could probably modify that recipe to reduce the phosphorus by substituting some of the cereal/oatmeal with some butternut squash or sweet potato. Would have to look into the gelatin and molasses though.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 28, 2016)

Arimara said:


> It just dawned on me- Would tripe be out of the question, Sonya? I know it's a stinky food but many dogs love it.




Tripe would be fine in fact I went to the pet shop yesterday and got some minced green tripe. It's a low phosphorus protein and apparently dogs with kidney disease do well on a raw food diet that includes it. I haven't tried him on it yet but it's in the list. I will need to add rice and veggies to it to make sure he's getting enough calories without getting too much protein.


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## Arimara (Jul 28, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> Tripe would be fine in fact I went to the pet shop yesterday and got some minced green tripe. It's a low phosphorus protein and apparently dogs with kidney disease do well on a raw food diet that includes it. I haven't tried him on it yet but it's in the list. I will need to add rice and veggies to it to make sure he's getting enough calories without getting too much protein.



Do try some pumpkin sometime, if allowed and he'll go for it. It'll give you an option to vary a little bit.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 28, 2016)

Arimara said:


> Do try some pumpkin sometime, if allowed and he'll go for it. It'll give you an option to vary a little bit.




Yeah he's allowed pumpkin so will try that too. 

Update from today: The vet gave him another injection and has referred him to the animal hospital for a full diagnostic check to find out for sure what's going on. They're calling me tomorrow with an appointment. He's eaten 2 fish fingers today, Si has been giving him the syringes of food and then he ate some of the non pureed mince, rice and veg food by himself - not a lot but it's a start. His stools are still loose but not completely just liquid like they were and he hasn't been sick. He seems a bit brighter today.


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## navigator9 (Jul 28, 2016)

Oh Sonya, I'm so sorry to hear this news. I don't have a dog, but a cat  who was put on a kidney diet a while back. We tried both the dry and the  canned. I mixed them together to make it more appetizing. At first, she  was OK with it. Then, she would eat the canned food, but leave the dry  behind. Eventually, she stopped eating it altogether. She's about 15  years old, we're not sure because I found her as an adult in a parking  lot. I did not want the end of her life to be miserable, so I made the  decision to put her back on the regular canned food that she loves. I  also put some water in the empty can and swish it around to get all of  the "juice" in the bottom, and get some extra water into her. Since  then, she's her old self again. I'm not sure what her numbers will show  when she gets her upcoming bloodwork done, but I couldn't stand to see  her miserable. She does get Remeron every three or four days to  stimulate her appetite, and so far, so good, and she's her old, sweet  self again. It's sooooo hard dealing with a sick pet, because you can't  explain to them what's happening. All you can do is love them. It sounds  like things may be turning a corner for Buster, and I sure hope so.  Sending lots of good energy your way.


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## Steve85569 (Jul 28, 2016)

Keeping you both on my prayer list.


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## Cindy2428 (Jul 28, 2016)

Thanks for the encouraging update Sonya - keeping you both in my prayers


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## Sonya-m (Jul 29, 2016)

He's being admitted to the animal hospital today for further checks.


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## Rusti (Jul 29, 2016)

For what it's worth, you all with kidney animals can ask your vets about phosphorus blockers and other supplements. I use Epakitin on my 18 year old cat's food because at 18 years old, she can eat what the heck ever she darn well wants to eat. I'm less worried about controlling her food at this point than just making sure she eats enough to not lose any more weight. She was an 11-12 pound cat (bit fat, honestly, but...) that now weighs 8.

She also gets Aventi Kidney Support. It's sort of like Azodyl, but is way, way cheaper and doesn't require refrigeration.

So far the combination seems to have stopped her daily vomiting and helped improve her appetite and her kidney numbers are steady enough.

I hope you get through this crisis with your pup Sonya, and I wish the best to everybody else with a renal failure critter (be it acute or chronic)!


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## newbie (Jul 29, 2016)

If he's gotten better since the vet put him on prednisone, you should ask the hospital to check to see if your dogs has Addison's disease. It is also called The Great Pretender because it can look like so many different things, but many dogs are diagnosed with renal disease when it's Addison's as Addison's affects the hormone that controls certain salts in the blood. In this disease, the adrenal glands also stop producing cortisol, the stress hormone, and the dogs can crash in a big way, pretty abruptly. It's extremely treatable.

A lot of what you mention- rapid weight loss, kidney issues, loss of appetite, slowing, low energy, gastric ulcers, GI bleeding- can all occur. The hospital would have to do a ACTH stimulation test to definitive diagnosis but since he's had prednisone, they would have to wait until that has cleared as it would make the test falsely negative. Percorten could be given if they suspect it and your dogs sodium and potassium look suspicious in their ratios. 


http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/endocrine/c_dg_hypoadrenocorticism

I actually hope this is what he has, as dogs live perfectly normal lives once they are on the proper treatment.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 29, 2016)

They're keeping him in overnight. They've done bloods, urine etc and a scan. It looks like he has pancreatitis brought on by the prescription diet for his kidney disease - too much fat in his diet causes pancreatitis but his kidney disease needs high fat low protein. The bloods have to be sent to America for confirmation that it is that. We have to call tomorrow to find out what's next. Think they're putting him on a drip tonight. 

I just don't know how we're going to manage his diet going forward cos he has two conditions needing completely opposite diets


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## newbie (Jul 29, 2016)

Sonya, have they considered Addison's and ruled it out? It would explain why he took a turn after the dog bite- an extra stressor when you can't make stress hormone would tip it. He sounds so much like it.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 29, 2016)

newbie said:


> Sonya, have they considered Addison's and ruled it out? It would explain why he took a turn after the dog bite- an extra stressor when you can't make stress hormone would tip it. He sounds so much like it.




I've just read up about this and you're right, he has almost every symptom and obviously it all started with the dog bite. I'm calling the hospital first thing to request the test which sounds pretty simple - involves injecting with something that should trigger the stress hormone and if bloods show he hasn't then he has Addison's. Thank you Amy - I'd never come across this before and it sounds rare but also says it's one of the last things tested for when nothing else is found.


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## newbie (Jul 29, 2016)

The test is simple but in your dog's case will be complicated by the fact that he was given a steroid (a stress hormone), prednisone, recently. There is some time period that he has to be without that before the test is valid. Even so, to have it in sight as a possible diagnosis will be good and they can stop the prednisone for the timeframe needed. Actually, I hope this is what he has because dogs lead normal full lives with it as it's pretty easy to treat. My fingers are crossed for him!


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## Sonya-m (Jul 29, 2016)

Do you mind me asking how you know so much about this? Just when I mention it to the hospital I don't want to come across as some crazy Google lady diagnosing my dog on the Internet. 

He hasn't had the steroid since Tuesday morning - do you know how long he would have to have been without it?


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## newbie (Jul 29, 2016)

My dog has Addison's. I lucked out in that my vet thought of it immediately when I brought her in weak, wobbly, skinny and her first set of labs showed the potassium and sodium issues. She's (the vet is) younger and closer to school; many vets don't think if it so quickly. Even diagnosed so quickly, my dog had a rough go of it with a massive GI bleed, dehydration and the lot. However, she's perfectly healthy now.

I will see what I can find about how long a dog has to be without prednisone before the test. You can now say you know someone whose dog has Addison's and they suggested it, so you don't look like you're trying to be Dr. Google.


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## newbie (Jul 29, 2016)

This is from an Endocrine website. I'm waiting for a response from some of the experts who run the Addison's page I'm on, but it looks like at least 24 hours without any steroids, so you would be in luck. It may depend on how much your dog was given, but in reading this (lots of jargon, but still), they recommend a taper down then at least 24 hours without. 

http://www.endocrinevet.info/2013/09/confirming-diagnosis-of-addisons.html


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## lenarenee (Jul 29, 2016)

You have the right to look like a crazy Google lady.  It's your dog,  your money, and you have the right to present any info or questions you want.

If the vet doesn't like it, then you need a better vet.  Any dedicated pet owner would do the research you're doing. What do you think a vet does when their dog becomes ill?  (One of my vets had a cat with kidney disease.....and I think that's why she worked so hard for my cat.)

You won't regret doing everything you can for your dog, I promise.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 29, 2016)

Thank you for this, the more I read the more I'm convinced it's this especially as I kept going back to the fact he just suddenly developed symptoms after the bite. 

I've spoken to the hospital tonight just to see how he's getting on and have asked that the veterinary nurse mention it to the vet that's looking after him.


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## newbie (Jul 29, 2016)

I agree with that. It's surprising how many doctors and vets bristle about a person's personal research though and I think it can blind them to possibilities which is unfortunate. 

A US vet did research on using low doses of one of the meds used in the US to treat Addison's. Who wouldn't want to minimize a medication as long as you are getting good control? Well, the answer is that LOTS of vets refuse to consider it and many owners of Addison's dogs end up shopping for a vet willing to look at that research. The researcher vet offers to consult with any other vet for free about it but some will still refuse. Seems crazy to me. I have a great set of vets and the one who diagnosed my dog was a bit nervous and reluctant to try the low dose, but she called the researcher and went along with it. The low dose protocol works fantastically well, saves a dog from being over medicated and saves the owner a lot of money which then reduces the number of people who would have to consider putting their dog down because they can't afford to treat it. 

It's a crazy world out there.

Sonya, I would make sure to ask the vet again yourself, just to be sure. Messages can be forgotten or missed or the vet could not like the suggestion coming from an owner, wrong as that would be. It really pays to be a strong advocate.0


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## Sonya-m (Jul 29, 2016)

The vet is calling me tomorrow anyway so I fully intend to bring it up - I just need to find out what is wrong with my pooch as I can't imagine him not being around. It was awful coming home tonight and him not being there greeting me with his wagging tail and slobbery chops!


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## TeresaT (Jul 29, 2016)

I have to agree with Newbie.  It is up to us to do as much research as possible regarding our animals.  We see them everyday and know what is normal and what is not.  *We have to be the advocates for our fur babies just like we would be for our human babies.*   I'm the one that discovered Shredder had Cushing's Disease.  I told the vet I wanted her tested.  The vet thought I was nuts.  After listing my reasons--and the vet offering alternative causes for the symptoms--I said "run the tests anyway."  I miss her, but I know I did the right thing for her.  The medicine didn't work for her and it came down to quality of life vs quantity of life.  _Quality of life will, _for me_, always win over quantity of life._  I could not let her continue to suffer just so I could have the pleasure of her company.  It is a horribly difficult decision to make, but it is one made out of supreme love for your fur baby.  I hope you do not have to make it for another 10 years.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 29, 2016)

Just sent a very precise and to the point email to the hospital so they can read it before they call tomorrow. I just though it may be easier for me to write everything down in an email than trying to remember everything I want to say to them. I've requested that even if they don't believe it to be this that they please test him to rule it out. I will keep you updated


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## TeresaT (Jul 29, 2016)

Good for you Sonya.  At least you'll have peace of mind that you are taking an active part in your dog's care.  Good luck.  I hope it it Addison's so that it can be managed and he'll be around for a long time.   Praying for you and Buster that everything turns out well.


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## Dahila (Jul 29, 2016)

Sonya print the email you send and keep beside the phone, when we are upset we tend to forgot asking the right questions.  It will help


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## newbie (Jul 29, 2016)

Please keep us updated, Sonya. I hope your boy pulls through whatever this ends up being, with flying colors.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 30, 2016)

They've done the test already apparently and it's not that. He's still not eating either. I just know we're losing him. We're going to see him this afternoon.


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## TeresaT (Jul 30, 2016)

Oh, Sonya.  I'm so sorry it's not Addison's.  I hope they find out what it is soon.


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## navigator9 (Jul 30, 2016)

Rusti said:


> For what it's worth, you all with kidney animals can ask your vets about phosphorus blockers and other supplements. I use Epakitin on my 18 year old cat's food because at 18 years old, she can eat what the heck ever she darn well wants to eat. I'm less worried about controlling her food at this point than just making sure she eats enough to not lose any more weight. She was an 11-12 pound cat (bit fat, honestly, but...) that now weighs 8.
> 
> She also gets Aventi Kidney Support. It's sort of like Azodyl, but is way, way cheaper and doesn't require refrigeration.
> 
> ...



Thank you for this Rusti. I have to bring Mimi to the vet soon to check her bloodwork, and I'm going to ask about these. 

Sonya, my thoughts are with you and Buster.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 30, 2016)

We've just been to him and to speak to the vet. He talked is through all the results. His kidneys are pretty much damaged beyond repair. It's definitely not Addison's, he had a normal response to the test in that his cortisol levels shot up as expected. He's having IV fluid therapy to flush the waste products from his system but he's very unwell and has lost so much weight. If he doesn't respond soon to the fluids we're going to have to do the right thing for him. It will absolutely break my heart and I can't ever go through this again - no more dogs for me.


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## TeresaT (Jul 30, 2016)

Oh, I'm so sorry.


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## Cactuslily (Jul 30, 2016)

my thoughts and prayers are with you and Buster.


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## newbie (Jul 30, 2016)

****! I'm sorry, Sonya. Having to put a dog/pet down is one of the worst experiences, I swear, even if it is clearly the right thing to do.


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## lionprincess00 (Jul 30, 2016)

Im also sorry. We put our boy down September of 2013. It was and always is so difficult. I am thinking of you and hope you're ok. I completely understand how hard it is when faced with this...so sorry.


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## lenarenee (Jul 30, 2016)

Sonya, did the dr. tell you his kidney values and what they mean?  What stage?

This may only be a crisis event, and not the end. I  glad to see fluids being used, because a build up of  stuff in the blood  causes a lot of discomfort that makes them feel like they have the flu.....hence the loss of appetite,  lethargy,  etc .

It's common for pets to not eat while styling at the clinic.....too many new sights, sounds, smells, and stress, so you don't necessarily need to take that as being a bad sign.

I'll pray for him to be stabilized and sent home, where then a system of care can be established through trial and error.

It's an exhausting process for you. It was for me too and I almost gave up in the beginning. It was experienced pet owners that showed me that often the bad times can be surviveable and to fight through them if I had the money and energy, and if I believed it was what my cat would have wanted.

I encourage you to try all the avenues you can handle. And I also support any decision you need to make.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 30, 2016)

I know there are different units of measure for BUN and creatinine but whatever the units being used are, he is at 22 BUN and 222 creatinine. From what I've read these aren't critically high. But the scan on his kidneys did show significant degradation. 

I so hope you're right and it's a crisis event but I've truly never seen him so miserable and so skinny - I almost wish I'd not seen him like this. It was heartbreaking.


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## lenarenee (Jul 30, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> I know there are different units of measure for BUN and creatinine but whatever the units being used are, he is at 22 BUN and 222 creatinine. From what I've read these aren't critically high. But the scan on his kidneys did show significant degradation.
> 
> I so hope you're right and it's a crisis event but I've truly never seen him so miserable and so skinny - I almost wish I'd not seen him like this. It was heartbreaking.



It absolutely is heart-rending,  and scary as hell. I'm so sorry. 

Cats can live with 75% and more of their kidney function gone. And live comfortably enough. 
Each case is different. I knew a cat that had stage 4 (90% gone) and lived more than a year.

Has the vet given a stage? A prognosis? (Which has to be taken with a grain of salt)

Are you getting the sense the vet has the experience to deal with this or just not willing to work with this?

You're in the UK, do you have the option of administering sub q fluids at home?

Plese look at www.felinecrf.org.  it's for cats  but I'm hoping you'll get a sense for what I'm talking about when I say that there may be hope. Pets can crash until near death, but rebound. It's just the way this thing works.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 30, 2016)

They haven't given us a stage recently but when he was diagnosed 7 weeks ago they said borderline 2-3. 

I get the feeling the vet is still of the opinion there's hope because he was talking about 'when Buster comes through this..'  But I just find it hard to believe after seeing him today

He did talk about giving sub q fluids using a skin button or something.


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## Guspuppy (Jul 30, 2016)

Aww, I'm so sorry to hear this Sonya.  My dog had a bad reaction to Doxycycline (an antibiotic used for Lyme disease) in that his body did not process it like normal, so he got a bad overdose with just three doses. His creatinine was over 1000, literally off the chart, and his kidney tests were also so bad that the vet felt there was surely something else going on and wanted to give him even more drugs. But I refused, had them give him sub-q fluids and took him home to drink as much as he wanted and eat if he felt like it or not. He drank over a gallon of water a day for almost a full week before he started to recover. It was extremely frightening but he DID eventually make a full recovery from the overdose. I hope and pray that your dog will pull through this and go on to lead a long and happy life.


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## lenarenee (Jul 30, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> They haven't given us a stage recently but when he was diagnosed 7 weeks ago they said borderline 2-3.
> 
> I get the feeling the vet is still of the opinion there's hope because he was talking about 'when Buster comes through this..'  But I just find it hard to believe after seeing him today
> 
> He did talk about giving sub q fluids using a skin button or something.



Okay, so your vet hasn't given up...that's good.

Is he still at the clinic? Can they line fed him for you?

This is not a promise,  but it's not unusual for them to bounce back.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 31, 2016)

He is still there. They called with an update this morning to say he's still not eating. They keep syringe feeding him and he's letting them. He hasn't lost anymore weight since yesterday but he's lost around 2kg in little over a week. He was never a massive dog, usually around 19kg

They're treating him for pancreatitis too at the moment. 

I'm worried that if he does pull through this event it is only a matter of weeks till he has another. It feels wrong to press on getting him well if this is going to keep on happening to him. 

The nurse that called said she's seen dogs in worst condition pull round which would be promising if I wasn't worried about it just keep happening time and time again.


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## LilyJo (Jul 31, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> He is still there. They called with an update this morning to say he's still not eating. They keep syringe feeding him and he's letting them. He hasn't lost anymore weight since yesterday but he's lost around 2kg in little over a week. He was never a massive dog, usually around 19kg
> 
> They're treating him for pancreatitis too at the moment.
> 
> ...



Hi Sonya

Newbie here!

Is it at an ordinary vets or a specialist referral centre?


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## Sonya-m (Jul 31, 2016)

LilyJo said:


> Hi Sonya
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Specialist referral hospital. Dread to think how big the bill is getting. Thankfully we have insurance but it will only cover the first 4K


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## LilyJo (Jul 31, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> Specialist referral hospital. Dread to think how big the bill is getting. Thankfully we have insurance but it will only cover the first 4K



I know but you cant think of that now.  Specialist referrals are brilliant, we have had quite a bit of experience with them with various animals and they are usually really good at getting further advice.  And they also dont give up without a fight - next time you go in to see him I would ask to speak to the nurse or vet tech looking after him and have a proper chat with them, they should be able to explain the prognosis without it being a formal vet visit.

Know its a horrible time (been there done it too many times) but if there is a chance he can recover they will move heaven and earth to get him there and then its about managing his condition.

Thinking of you.


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## dibbles (Jul 31, 2016)

I'm so sorry Sonya. Sending hugs.


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## Rusti (Jul 31, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> Specialist referral hospital. Dread to think how big the bill is getting. Thankfully we have insurance but it will only cover the first 4K





LilyJo said:


> I know but you cant think of that now.



Well, actually...she does need to think about that. It's unfair, but it's also not fair to say someone should spend money they don't have. When I was a CVT I never insisted someone plow on with care when it's becoming apparent that they cannot afford it or they are taking on crippling debt. 

Ultimately, sooner or later pet ownership only ends one way for most of us. Sonya has made the effort here, and if she has to make a decision because money's finally run out, then I won't fault her for that any more than if the decision comes from how sick puppy is getting.

I'm sorry Sonya. I know that you will make the decision that is best for you and your family, whether it's continuing with treatment or deciding it's time to call it quits.


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## Cindy2428 (Jul 31, 2016)

Oh Sonya, I cry as I type this. When my Spitzle (cat) had his stroke, I was there holding his head as they put him to sleep. I can't even type this without crying. I asked myself in his place what would I want done? 12 years later and it still hurts. My thoughts and prayers are with you.


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## Rusti (Jul 31, 2016)

Cindy2428 said:


> Oh Sonya, I cry as I type this. When my Spitzle (cat) had his stroke, I was there holding his head as they put him to sleep. I can't even type this without crying. I asked myself in his place what would I want done? 12 years later and it still hurts. My thoughts and prayers are with you.



Yeah. When I called it for my 14 year old GSD, I asked if we could go outside. So we sat under a tree on a blanket I'd brought to wrap her in and I held her head in my lap. I will get another dog when I'm finally back in my own place because it was all worth it to me, but I also understand Sonya not wanting to do it again. It _is hard_, no matter the age or the illness.


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## lenarenee (Jul 31, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> He is still there. They called with an update this morning to say he's still not eating. They keep syringe feeding him and he's letting them. He hasn't lost anymore weight since yesterday but he's lost around 2kg in little over a week. He was never a massive dog, usually around 19kg
> 
> They're treating him for pancreatitis too at the moment.
> 
> ...


 

And there's no way to predict when or how often this will happen again. My cat only had 1 major crisis, never a complete crash. But because she wouldn't eat the Rx kidney diet, we kept her on fluids 3 times a week and fed her whatever food she would eat, had her kidney levels checked every 6 months. There were times where appetite was a real struggle, but gave her Recovery food or chicken livers until it passed. Had 4 more years with her and she died at the age of 18.

Your dog may end up as lucky as my cat, or not. Only time will tell.
As I re-read this post, I can see how heartless it might sound. I don't mean it that way. Medical things used to freak me out, so when my cat got sick and I had to play nurse, I almost gave up on her, and without the help of others who'd been through it, I would have. I'm so glad I didn't, because it ended up being worth it as we both enjoyed the last 4 years.  

Only you and your dog can know what the right choices are. You have all of my support.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 31, 2016)

I'm missing him so much. The house doesn't feel right without him here


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## lenarenee (Jul 31, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> I'm missing him so much. The house doesn't feel right without him here


 
It's a very empty feeling, isn't?  Our senses get used to their presence, so even if we're not actively  playing with them, we're still very aware of when they sleep, snore, walk to a sunny window for a nap, eat, etc.

Any idea when he might be coming home? Does he have a toy or blanket with familiar smells from home with him?


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## Sonya-m (Aug 1, 2016)

lenarenee said:


> It's a very empty feeling, isn't?  Our senses get used to their presence, so even if we're not actively  playing with them, we're still very aware of when they sleep, snore, walk to a sunny window for a nap, eat, etc.
> 
> Any idea when he might be coming home? Does he have a toy or blanket with familiar smells from home with him?




It's awful, stupid things like not having  to take him for a walk, seeing his blanket on the sofa without him on it, not saying 'night dog' before bedtime. 

I don't know, we spoke about when to bring him home and if they still feel they're helping then we will leave him a there for now but if they don't think there's more they can do AND he's not suffering, we want to bring him home even if only for a day or so. We don't want his last days to be spent away from us, miserable in hospital. He has the blanket from his bed with him.


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## lenarenee (Aug 2, 2016)

How are things today Sonya?


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## Sonya-m (Aug 2, 2016)

They've taken him out of ICU and onto a regular ward. His bloodwork yesterday was a mixed bag as his BUN has come down from 23 to 16 and his creatinine has come down from 222 to 174. But his white blood cell count his high indicating infection still present and his red cell count is low and causing him anaemia. They haven't had the amylase results back yet which will confirm the pancreatitis or not. He had sickness and diarrhoea yesterday but nothing today. They've reduced the level of fluid therapy now his bloods are improving and in case it's causing the dilution of his red cell count. Ideally they'd like to do a kidney biopsy but are reluctant to as he already has reduced kidney function and they don't want to reduce it further. They also said the anaesthetic could be a worry for him at the moment. They would like to do an endoscopy but are holding off at the moment because of the issue with anaesthetic. He has put a little weight on but still refuses to eat but is still allowing them to syringe feed him. They're waiting on some results from a stool sample also. They've said he seems brighter but they're struggling with how to move forward until they get these results. 

I'm so low at the moment, I just want my pooch home. But I'm also terrified if he comes home that this happens again. We were supposed to be going to Spain for 2 weeks on Sunday. I've cancelled my flight and moved it to the following week but I don't think I will be going at all. And if my dog is ok I don't mind never taking a holiday ever again.


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## Cindy2428 (Aug 2, 2016)

Thanks for the update - so sorry you are going through this. Keeping you both in my prayers


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## Dahila (Aug 2, 2016)

I am terrified to read the thread.  I am terrified what could happen to puppy.  God let him be ok,


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## Sonya-m (Aug 2, 2016)

He's in the best place he could be so for that I'm grateful, it's a new hospital that only got built last year. We're lucky to live so close to it. 

http://www.wear-referrals.co.uk


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## lenarenee (Aug 2, 2016)

Sonya, please make sure you're eating and drinking enough. Get out of the house to some place positive....like a park, bookstore.

Very impressive facility, looks like lots of experienced staff.


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## Arimara (Aug 3, 2016)

Wow, this is rough. I'm wishing you the best and all.


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## dixiedragon (Aug 3, 2016)

I wish I could be there to hold your hand.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 3, 2016)

dixiedragon said:


> I wish I could be there to hold your hand.




Thanks. This definitely isn't the best time I've had.


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## maya (Aug 3, 2016)

Oh God. <3


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## Sonya-m (Aug 4, 2016)

Just spoke to the hospital. No results back today but he's eaten 3 meals of just chicken by himself today - no syringe feeds! I can't tell you how happy that makes me!!!


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## Guspuppy (Aug 4, 2016)

YES!  Hope this is a sign of things to come!!!


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## Sonya-m (Aug 4, 2016)

I hope so. They've also extended the time between pain meds to 8 hrs from 6 so only getting it 3 times now instead of 4. He's barking for attention and pawing at his kennel so seems a lot more alert.


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## crispysoap (Aug 4, 2016)

That's such a promising sign  my fingers are crossed for you both!


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## Steve85569 (Aug 4, 2016)

Finally some good news!
I'll keep pulling for ya from this side of the pond.

Steve


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## BlackDog (Aug 4, 2016)

I'm so thrilled for your (moderately) good news! I've been wondering all day how he's doing. I hope this is the beginning of a quick recovery!


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## TeresaT (Aug 4, 2016)

Yay!!  That's good news.  I hope he continues to take baby steps in his recovery.  Barking, pawing, seeking attention (and eating on his own)  all sound like wonderful signs of him getting back to normal.  It's not going to happen over night, but I think any show of improvement is a good thing.


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## navigator9 (Aug 4, 2016)

I'm hoping that this is a sign that Buster is turning a corner.


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## Cindy2428 (Aug 4, 2016)

Yea!!!!!


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## Sonya-m (Aug 5, 2016)

They've just called to say they're discharging him tonight! I feel nervous that they are but I have to trust that they're doing the right thing for him. Everything they've done so far for him has been the right thing.


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## crispysoap (Aug 5, 2016)

Wow what fantastic news! I'm sure being home will be a big boost for him as well.


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## Rowan (Aug 5, 2016)

Sonya, that's amazing news. I'm so happy for you. They are our family and its devastating when they are so unwell. Look after yourselves


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## LilyJo (Aug 5, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> They've just called to say they're discharging him tonight! I feel nervous that they are but I have to trust that they're doing the right thing for him. Everything they've done so far for him has been the right thing.



I am so pleased, have been keeping my fingers crossed for you both!

From my own experience the first couple of days at home are always tricky as its such a worry when you have to do all the things the nurses were doing for him but he will feel better in his own home and with you.

Really glad he is coming home for the weekend - let us know how you get on when he gets home.


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## dibbles (Aug 5, 2016)

The best news ever. So happy for you!!


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## BlackDog (Aug 5, 2016)

That is FANTASTIC!!  Be sure to prescribe extra snuggles and ear scratches.


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## dixiedragon (Aug 5, 2016)

Great to hear!


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## Sonya-m (Aug 5, 2016)

I didn't think we would see this again - home at last, out enjoying the garden.


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## Arimara (Aug 5, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> View attachment 22038
> 
> View attachment 22039
> 
> ...



That's great news. Congrats to Pup's steadier health. :mrgreen:


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## lenarenee (Aug 5, 2016)

So very happy for you both!  I know how it feels!


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## dibbles (Aug 5, 2016)

So happy to see him home.


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## Cindy2428 (Aug 5, 2016)

I think the only family member who is happier than you for him to be home is Buster! Hopefully he will continue to gain some weight and all members of the family will find some peace. Truly wonderful Sonya :clap::clap: (1 for you and 1 for Buster)


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## dixiedragon (Aug 5, 2016)

YAY!!! So happy for you!  (cute widdle smush face!)


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## navigator9 (Aug 6, 2016)

Oh, he looks goooood! And happy to be home.  Yay!


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## Guspuppy (Aug 6, 2016)

He DOES look good! YAY! Hopefully it's all good from here on out for you all.


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## newbie (Aug 6, 2016)

Wow! What a great turn around. I'm sure he will pick up speed now that he's home and in his comfort zone. When my dog was hospitalized recently, she didn't eat for almost 4 days but once she was home, she was happy to eat and be in her regular routine. Go, Buster!


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## TeresaT (Aug 6, 2016)

Wonderful news!  So happy for you all.  Buster looks great!!


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## Sonya-m (Aug 6, 2016)

Thank you to everyone for the support you all offered over the last two, awful weeks. He's doing really well, he's not resisting to much to the meds and he's had 3 meals today - two of them had some of the new prescription food in it which he seemed to like. He won't entertain the wet version but we ordered the dry last night for next day delivery and he seems ok with it. Slowly plan to introduce more of it bit by bit to the rice and chicken he's currently eating.  He's back in two weeks for tests to see how things are going but I can already see a difference in the last 24 hours. 

I was supposed to be going to Spain for two weeks tomorrow but had to cancel which sucks but given the choice of having my Buster healthy but never having a holiday again, I know what I'd choose.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 6, 2016)

Skinnier than he should be and covered in shaved patches from all the tests and iv tubes but happy to be home on his sofa.


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## MySoapyHeart (Aug 6, 2016)

Aaaw, look at that poor thing... (still cute though!) 
Happy that he is finally back home after that ordeal for both of you.


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## TeresaT (Aug 6, 2016)

I'm diggin' his purple arm band!!  I'm glad he's had a good turn around.  Sorry about your holiday, maybe another year...


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## Sonya-m (Aug 7, 2016)

Had a bad start this morning - he wouldn't eat his prescription food and the chicken I gave him instead came straight back up. This afternoon was slightly better but gave up on the prescription food for now - I think it's too much for his tummy at the moment so chicken and rice little and often for now - he's kept two small meals down.


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## lenarenee (Aug 7, 2016)

Are dogs similar to cats in regards to changing foods gradually? I was taught to introduce foods slowly - sometimes just a spoonful mixed in with regular food - to help reduce any digestive upset.

Plus, the Rx food - If its the recovery food, high in fat and calories - it's prone to causing digestive issues because it's so rich. A little goes a long way. My cat would get diarrhea from it - even 2 days after her last recovery meal.  Just FYI.

Wondering if he's developing food sensitivities or even allergies. Just because it's a Rx food, doesn't mean its made with the most wholesome ingredients.


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## Rusti (Aug 7, 2016)

lenarenee said:


> Are dogs similar to cats in regards to changing foods gradually? I was taught to introduce foods slowly - sometimes just a spoonful mixed in with regular food - to help reduce any digestive upset.



Yes, this is true for dogs as it is for cats. Sudden, drastic changes in diet can cause stomach upset for sure. The most gentle sort of food for upset canine tummies is boiled or steamed chicken or super lean ground beef and rice.


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## jules92207 (Aug 7, 2016)

I'm so happy to read he is improving. Good thoughts and prayers you all continue to move forward in recovery!


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## Dahila (Aug 7, 2016)

I am happy he is doing better,  I am hoping for full recovery.  I had so many dogs, with different diseases, some of them cut their life too short.  Everyone of them was on food I cooked,  I cooked the same as for my children,  Nutritious full meals, no spices at all salt is  in meat so not salt added.  They always enjoyed veggies and fruit,  When you know which you can give it, it certain situation.  The dog will fight with disease.  I think you need to watch his potassium levels.........It is difficult to do it, but it can be done.  My friend kept his dog for years with kidney failure........ it took a lot of work for the family but the dog was living happy long life .   Sonya do post, and do not despair, his stomach is probably smaller now and extra sensitive  It is going to get better.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 8, 2016)

lenarenee said:


> Are dogs similar to cats in regards to changing foods gradually? I was taught to introduce foods slowly - sometimes just a spoonful mixed in with regular food - to help reduce any digestive upset.
> 
> Plus, the Rx food - If its the recovery food, high in fat and calories - it's prone to causing digestive issues because it's so rich. A little goes a long way. My cat would get diarrhea from it - even 2 days after her last recovery meal.  Just FYI.
> 
> Wondering if he's developing food sensitivities or even allergies. Just because it's a Rx food, doesn't mean its made with the most wholesome ingredients.




Yeah I added a small amount to his chicken and rice on Saturday in two of his meals and he ate that but then yesterday he was sick. I wonder if it was too soon to try? It's a gastrointestinal prescription food that's low in fat because of the pancreatitis - the high fat renal diet probably caused the pancreatitis. 

I have a new problem now in that he will not drink out of his water bowl in the house. He has one outside he will drink from but he obviously can't be outside all the time. 

I'm exhausted and not sleeping or eating well myself - I know this is stupid and only serves to make me feel worse so I intend to force some healthy food down me today. 

I was going to pop out to a friends for a couple of hours but now he's not drinking I don't think I can.


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## Saponista (Aug 8, 2016)

Oh Sonya, you need to eat or you will feel more depressed and sad. Try making the water seem more appealing. Could you put it in a pint glass or a glass bowl so it looks fresh and clean. Has something dropped in his bowl or does it smell like washing up liquid or something? He may be more sensitive to smells now he's been poorly. Try putting it far away from his food too, maybe even in a different room. If you can get him to drink today, I think you should go out for a bit and try and eat some food with your friend. It will make you feel so much better  xxxx


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## dixiedragon (Aug 8, 2016)

I have heard of people mixing some chicken or beef broth with water to make it smell better so the dogs will drink more. Maybe try that?


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## McMomWV (Aug 8, 2016)

When my littlist aussie had pancreatitis, eating was an issue.  I took the wet prescription food, cut it into small disks and baked them.  She found them more palatable that way.  I only let her eat 1/2 to a whole patty (think breakfast sausage patty size) at a time and waited a couple hours for that to digest before making another.  If she ate more, it didn't stay down in she experienced pain which kept her from trying again for some time.  If you have dry food, you can break it down in the blender with a bit of water to make a paste to form patties.  Just an idea.
Thoughts are with you.


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## lenarenee (Aug 8, 2016)

Just ideas, (but I'm thinking like a cat owner)

Change the bowl to a glass, metal, or ceramic dish that doesn't retain odor. (plastic does)

Have more than 1 bowl in the house.

Put one on a raised platform so he doesn't have to lower his head to drink.

Keep the vets informed.

Can someone stay with him while you go out for an hour or two? You'll worry less if someone is there.

Also, if you're quite anxious and stressed - Buster knows it too and can stress him. Deep breathing girl, use or do something that helps you de stress - *you have to take care of yourself in order to take care of Buster.*

Think of how you feel when you're surrounded by someone who's stressed.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 8, 2016)

I've tried every bowl we have and he will not drink in the house - he will outside??

I guess for now I will just have to let him do his thing cos drinking is too important to not happen. 

I'm also adding extra water to his chicken and rice so he gets extra fluid and have also added some pureed sweet potato to his meal tonight (pureed with the water it cooked in) so he's getting moisture from there too


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## Dahila (Aug 8, 2016)

Sonya you probably tried to give him drink in your palm,  When my dog did not drink (sick) I put my hands into bowl and cupped water they usually started to drink.  I always think they try hard to satisfy us........


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## dibbles (Aug 8, 2016)

Sonya, who knows what goes on in a dog's head and why they suddenly won't do something that they always did before without any problem. It's baffling, but the important thing is he is drinking water somewhere and eating on his own. That is huge considering what you have just gone through. Hopefully, when he gets back to normal he will decide that drinking water inside is just fine.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 9, 2016)

Had to have bloods done today vet doesn't think they can do anymore for him. His blood levels have shot up to over 50, around 7 is normal and the highest his have been before now was 23. He's told me to bring him home for few days and just feed him anything he will eat. He said they could do fluid therapy again but that he feels this would keep happening. I'm going to have to take him to be put to sleep. I don't think I can do it. I came in tonight and he ate loads of chicken and rice then played with his toys - he was happy, I can't believe he's this sick when he's still eating and playing.


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## Cindy2428 (Aug 9, 2016)

Oh, Sonja, so sorry, so **** sorry


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## Saponista (Aug 9, 2016)

Oh Sonya, I'm so so sorry. I feel absolutely awful for you.


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## Arimara (Aug 9, 2016)

I'm sorry to hear that. Perhaps you could let him eat what he will and enjoy the last few moments with him. When that time comes, do right by the dog. It is your decision ultimately but I really think you may want to let him get his last bouts of playtime out while you make your decision.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 9, 2016)

Yep he can eat whatever he wants and we're off to the beach tomorrow as he loves going, always turns into a puppy again at the beach. I will buy him ice cream and let him run on the sand.


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## dibbles (Aug 9, 2016)

I am truly heartbroken for you Sonya. The decision you have to make is one of the most difficult in life. When faced with this I always go back to this; the dog has given us unconditional love and so much happiness, and they deserve for decisions to be made in their best interest. I wish I could give you an in-person hug. A virtual one will have to do.


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## TeresaT (Aug 9, 2016)

Sonya, I am so sorry for what you are going through.  I think I  understand how  you must be feeling right now.  I just recently went through this with  Shredder.  It is the hardest decision in the world to make.    Two  things helped me to grieve.  One, I made a tribute to her on my Facebook  page.  It was for my comfort, and mine alone.  However, by putting it  out in so public a format, it proved that she was real and had an impact  on my life, and it helped others who were grieving over their loss to  see they weren't alone.   Second, I read this story  (http://weruletheinternet.com/2011/05/24/a-dogs-purpose-according-to-a-6-year-old/)   and it made an immense impact on me.   The truth is so clear and plain  that we adults so often fail to see it.  Sometimes, it takes the wisdom  of a child to remind us of this simple fact.   I got my first dog when I  was 18 months old.  His name was Mickey.  He died when I was 13 years  old.  I have a statue of him in my living room.  I have had many dogs  and cats since then.  I've loved and cherished every one of them.  Each  one is special in his or her own way.  None can ever be replaced.   However, my house isn't a home without fur flying and paws pattering.  I  hope someday you are able to open your heart and home to another pet in  need of love and shelter.  But if you cannot, at least you have known  the unconditional love of one special and lucky dog.  I'm sorry there is  not a better outcome for Buster.   We were all hoping and praying there  was.  Enjoy and cherish your remaining time together.


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## Susie (Aug 9, 2016)

My heart breaks for you.  Truly.  This is probably the most difficult thing you have ever had to do.  Enjoy your time together, but don't put off that last task too long, lest he start hurting again.


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## Dahila (Aug 9, 2016)

the ending of his life, just awful,  It is one of the hardest decision to make, and you are with it completely alone.  I was, with house full of people, they thought i am crazy........ eh.   He will tell you when is time Sonya, he will .   My heart goes to you and this suffering doggy..............I am soo sorry


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## crispysoap (Aug 9, 2016)

I'm so sorry! Losing a pet (who is a very real member of the family) is incredibly hard. Having to make that choice for them is so much harder. I hope you and Buster have a brilliant day at the beach! Sending you lots of hugs from NZ.


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## DeeAnna (Aug 9, 2016)

Oh dear. Sonya -- I feel for you. Enjoy your time with your boy while he feels good, and help him gently go when the time is right.


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## houseofwool (Aug 9, 2016)

I'm sorry Sonya. Will your vet make a house call for this so he can be at peace in a familiar place?


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## CaraBou (Aug 10, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> I will buy him ice cream and let him run on the sand.



That's the way to do it. He will know he is loved for every moment of his life. But your greatest gift will be the one that removes his suffering. A dog that won't eat is a sick dog indeed. When the time comes, you must be brave. Remember, you are his hero.


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## KristaY (Aug 10, 2016)

Sonya, I can't tell you how heartbroken I am for you. As all pet owners know, we've had to face this decision. Don't make the decision to euthanize this moment. Since he's eating and playing, give it time. You'll know when the time is right to do it. If he's feeling well and playing, let the decision rest until he's not. That might be hours or weeks. The one thing Buster knows is how much you love him so that's what's important to focus on. God gives us pets for their whole life, but only part of ours. It's so hard to let them go but I've always found comfort in "all dogs go to heaven". Their hearts are so pure and good, it has to be true. 

My prayers & virtual hugs are with you. :angel:


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## lenarenee (Aug 10, 2016)

houseofwool said:


> I'm sorry Sonya. Will your vet make a house call for this so he can be at peace in a familiar place?



That's an option that needs to be investigated thoroughly because different areas in the US have different regulations about which drugs can be used out of clinic for euthanasia, the 'home use' drugs here in California are not the same that are used in the clinics. My neighbor had a horrific time with her dog at home because she was not informed of the difference and what happens if something goes wrong.

Don't know how it is in the UK.


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## Susie (Aug 10, 2016)

Where I used to live, the vet had a mobile clinic, so the euthanasia drugs could be administered anywhere within, IIRC, 50 ft of that mobile clinic.  That was one of the main reasons he created that clinic on wheels.


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## LilyJo (Aug 10, 2016)

Its different in the UK, some vets will and some wont - it kind of depends on the vet and your relationship with him/her.

Sonya, am so sorry to hear your news especially as he seemed to have perked up a little - as someone else said, dont make that decision right now but you will know when the time is right.

We had a beautiful house rabbit who we all adored and who adored a few years back and as he got towards 10 he started to be ill sporadically.  We got him through every illness but there came a time when we all just knew that he didn't have any fight left in him and it was time - it broke my heart but I am so grateful we tried for as long as we did and so proud we made the right decision for him at the right time.

Its the hardest thing any of us do and no one can ease your pain right now; stay strong and take each moment as it comes. Enjoy every kiss, snuggle, woof, play and let him know how very much you love him.

Sobbing whilst I write this so I think I need to take my own advice and go snuggle my dogs!


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## dixiedragon (Aug 10, 2016)

In my area , some vets are willing to do it in your car in their parking lot. That might be worth asking about.

I'm not a follower of organized religion particularly, but I think that the existence of dogs and the deep bond between us and them is proof there is a Divine Being of some kind who loves us. Helping them to find peace at the end is our duty and our privilege.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 10, 2016)

How will I know? He's eating a little bit has been sick today. I don't want to leave him so long he's suffering but equally I don't want to go ahead and do it now if there's a slim chance he could pull round. 

He's back tomorrow for bloods and weigh in. If his bloods are worse and he's lost more weight do I make the decision? I know there's only me can make the choice but I'm scared I'll question my decision forever


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## Rusti (Aug 10, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> How will I know? He's eating a little bit has been sick today. I don't want to leave him so long he's suffering but equally I don't want to go ahead and do it now if there's a slim chance he could pull round.
> 
> He's back tomorrow for bloods and weigh in. If his bloods are worse and he's lost more weight do I make the decision? I know there's only me can make the choice but I'm scared I'll question my decision forever



If they were having trouble, I used to tell folks to keep a calendar. Mark each good day with a color, mark each bad day with a different color, red maybe. When the bad days begin to outnumber the good, or take over the calendar completely, you will know.

Some folks are better at intuiting it and trusting their instincts and what their animals are telling them. Others just need something to visualize to help them be sure because it *is* a rough decision, and you *do* sometimes second guess yourself, and if your second-guessing reflex is bad, having the calendar to look at and go say to yourself 'yeah, it was time' might be helpful.

I still have brief moments where I wonder if I didn't fight hard enough for my 14 year old GSD. But then I remember the morning of that she was off leash on the way to the car and didn't bother to go pick a fight with a neighbor dog, which is something she had always taken great glee in doing if she could. I knew then. So I remember that moment when the guessing happens.


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## dixiedragon (Aug 10, 2016)

I wish I had magic words to give you. I think that it is very normal for us to feel some small "what if"? We can only do our best with the information and resources we have. 

Ask your vet and/or the vet techs, "If this was your dog, what would you do?"


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## Susie (Aug 10, 2016)

dixiedragon said:


> I wish I had magic words to give you. I think that it is very normal for us to feel some small "what if"? We can only do our best with the information and resources we have.
> 
> *Ask your vet and/or the vet techs, "If this was your dog, what would you do?"*



^^^This!  Vets and vet techs have a much more objective view of the situation.  They will probably be unwilling to actually give you an answer, but watch their faces, if you see them flinch, frown, or look away, then you know they would do the kind thing if it was their pet.


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## Guspuppy (Aug 10, 2016)

Oh Sonya my heart is breaking for you. But if he's playing, if he's  eating, if he's acting happy, then it's not time yet. If he's suffering  more than he's happy, you'll know it in your heart. Do like Rusti said  and keep track of the good and bad days. It's such a hard thing to do,  and sometimes it helps to ask the vet what they would do. Sometimes we  need that 'permission' to do the hard thing even if we know it is the  right thing to do. And even then we can be left with doubts. I know a  lady whose dog had a slow-growing bone cancer for years before she had  to finally put her down for it. That lady spent tens of thousands of  dollars treating the dog, and nursed it through every surgery and  sickness. She did everything it was possible for her to do, even selling  her house to pay for the vet, but in the end she had to let the dog go.  And even then she still felt like there was more she could have done,  that maybe she did it 'too soon'. There was NOTHING more she could have  done, but she still feels guilty and sad about it and won't get another  dog. I think the only thing we can do is enjoy whatever time we have with our  dogs and try to be brave for them when it's over. I know you are  horribly worried about Buster right now but try not to show it to him. Try to be  happy and encouraging for him. I hope he gets his day at the beach with  ice cream and enjoys every moment of it. Any happy memory you can have  after all that has gone before is going to be priceless to you.


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## LilyJo (Aug 10, 2016)

If its a good vet (and I think you said he was at a referral centre) then they will know and will help you to make the decision when you need to. I remember worrying so much about when would be the right time but one day you just look at them and you know its time.

If you ask them "what would you do" dont read anything into a failure to answer - our vet (who I trust implicitly) told me once that they are trained to not answer the question as it can throw up a whole load of legal issues but the better you know the vet or nurse the more likely they are to find a way to tell you.

Marking off the good and bad days or even good and bad half days is such a good idea, its so easy to get stuck in feeling of despair but if you can see that the good and the bad are balanced or there are more good than bad, it can really help to see a little light.

How was the beach, did he love it?  Did you enjoy it too?


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## Sonya-m (Aug 10, 2016)




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## dixiedragon (Aug 10, 2016)

Great pics!


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## Sonya-m (Aug 10, 2016)




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## dibbles (Aug 10, 2016)

Wonderful pictures, Sonya. I'm glad you and Buster enjoyed your day at the beach. 

I know people have told you that you will know when it's time. You have some doubts that you will, but I really think that, in your heart, you will know. You are in my thoughts.


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## MySoapyHeart (Aug 10, 2016)

Lovely pictures of you and your dog. 

Sending you my best wishes, and hope you get some rest inbetween the things that are going on.


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## lenarenee (Aug 10, 2016)

How will you know? I don't think anyone can tell you that. (For myself and my cat, I promised her that when she couldn't enjoy life, or lived in pain, fear that I would end it.) There's also the question of how much a person can take.

*I really don't understand why they haven't sent you home with sub q fluids! They aren't the answer for every case, but in the US, it is one of the very first things vets RX for kidney diagnosis.

They are NOT difficult to administer once someone walks you through it can you get confident in the process. I warmed the fluids in a sink of hot water and my cat would purr through the process.

As the BUN level goes up, the appetite goes down and digestive issues go up. Fluids flush the toxins from the blood, lowering the BUN levels (it won't fix the cause).

Again, I know that sub q fluids weren't legal in the UK a few years ago, and if they are now...then it's still a very new thing that probably hasn't caught on fully. (I did note that the vets at your clinic are all older doctors. I found the best kidney vets I found were younger...simply because med school was fresher, and their experience level had them seek consults with other vets.

But if you have the strength to fight a little longer, I'd start demanding more from these vets. (Don't I sound like a tough outspoken witch? Not at all, I'm shy and quiet mostly. But I almost euthanized my cat at diagnosis due to my fear of medical things, and the overwhelming process of learning how to live with her illness. I had good people help me through; and four more good years with her.) My goal is to help you handle as much as you're capable, and to not let you give up until you feel its needed. And I will always support what you need to do!

This is taken from http://www.felinecrf.org/subcutaneous_fluids.htm and is a direct quote:

"Not only that, but dehydration feels horrible. Human CKD patients have described dehydration and the accompanying high levels of toxins in the blood as feeling similar to a bad hangover. It can make you feel so horrible that you stop eating and drinking, and according to Evidence-based step-wise approach to managing chronic kidney disease in dogs and cats (2013) Polzin DJ _Journal of Veterinary Emergency Critical Care (San Antonio) _*23(2)* pp205-15, it may even "precipitate a uremic crisis" and "predispose to AKI [acute kidney injury].""

Myself, not knowing all the details of Buster's condition....I'd want to see how the next 2 - 4 weeks go while using fluids at home.


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## Dahila (Aug 10, 2016)

For my late dog ,  I knew in my heart that she is not going to last, my daughter made the decision and she was at home at this time, but could not stay in the same room (vet come to my home) Two months ago her 16 years old dog got sick gravely sick and they offer her the operation......... The dog could not go outside anymore, he was in pain, almost blind,  had not control his function.  She called and asked me, I said do not put him through unnecessary suffering, it is time.  I made the decision for her. It was tough,   I loved the dog Max .  When he could not come when I came, I knew that he is on his last days........ it is difficult,  so difficult, eh Sonya you will have to get another one sometime, that the best option for people like us,  It will be no replacing cause you can not replace the dog, ever


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## Sonya-m (Aug 11, 2016)

lenarenee said:


> How will you know? I don't think anyone can tell you that. (For myself and my cat, I promised her that when she couldn't enjoy life, or lived in pain, fear that I would end it.) There's also the question of how much a person can take.
> 
> *I really don't understand why they haven't sent you home with sub q fluids! They aren't the answer for every case, but in the US, it is one of the very first things vets RX for kidney diagnosis.
> 
> ...




I asked our vet today about the sub q fluids and he said he's on board for cats but feels that as dogs need a fair bit more fluid due to size it would just be a prolonging exercise. 

The main issue is how quickly buster deteriorated from last Friday when he left the hospital and his BUN was 13 to Tuesday when it had shot up to 50. Plus the urine sample shows he's not able to concentrate his urine, the specific gravity was very low and that was on a day that he wasn't really drinking so any urine he produced should have been more concentrated. 

I'm taking him for another blood test today to see what has happened over the last two days and will take things from there. 

He was a bit sick yesterday morning but a lot brighter in the afternoon. It's very up and down so I'm going to start marking on the calendar how he is.


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## navigator9 (Aug 11, 2016)

Oh Sonya, what wonderful pictures. I think our pets teach us a lot about what kind of human beings we are. Abigail Van Buren, who wrote the Dear Abby column, had a quote that I love..."The best index of a person's character is, A. how he treats people who can't do him any good and B.how he treats people who can't fight back." I think that applies perfectly to animals, and your compassion for Buster says a lot about you. You are lucky to have found each other. And I'm sure that Buster knows in his heart that you will do the best thing for him when the time comes. And he will love you for it. Until that time comes, enjoy every minute you have with him.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 11, 2016)

Thank you for all the lovely words

He's been for bloods today and his BUN has come down from 50 to 45 but that's still way higher than its ever been. His creatinine is off the chart at over 600 (the lowest it's been is 124 and the previous highest 223). I asked the vet what he would do if Buster was his dog and he was totally honest and said he would consider euthanasia but that he wasn't saying that should be today but probably within a few weeks. 

He's outside playing at the moment and has just eaten, is also drinking ok again at the moment. 

I'm so conflicted because part of me feels whilst he's eating (albeit only small amounts - he hasn't lost anymore weight since Tuesday), drinking, playing and willing to go for walks that it's not the right time but the other side of me knows that when he's no longer doing these things it's because he's really suffering and I don't want that. 

The vet is going to do a day of fluid therapy as an outpatient tomorrow then take bloods to see how effective it is. I guess I will see what tomorrow brings but I know I can't keep taking him in for that - once a month maybe but if it were more is that just too much to keep putting him through?


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## shunt2011 (Aug 11, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> Thank you for all the lovely words
> 
> He's been for bloods today and his BUN has come down from 50 to 45 but that's still way higher than its ever been. His creatinine is off the chart at over 600 (the lowest it's been is 124 and the previous highest 223). I asked the vet what he would do if Buster was his dog and he was totally honest and said he would consider euthanasia but that he wasn't saying that should be today but probably within a few weeks.
> 
> ...


 
I'm so very sorry you are going through this.   I know how difficult it is to make the decision to end their lives.   What a precious pup you've got there.

I've had to make that decision more times than I've liked.  However, as others have stated, you know in your heart of hearts when the right time is.  They have a way of telling you when it's just too much.  

Follow your heart and gut.   Will keep you all in my prayers.


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## lenarenee (Aug 11, 2016)

That's correct - fluid therapy isn't a cure. It hydrates because of the inability to concentrate urine and helps lower the toxin levels to help the animal feel better.

I wonder what your vet meant by prolong? Prolong the inevitable end? But _isn't that the whole idea_? Keep the pet comfortable enough to still enjoy life despite the kidney disease. Yes, the disease progresses - some faster than others. Maybe you'll get a few more good months, a year, or more. No way to tell without trying. You did say they declared Buster to be about stage 2 - 3, correct?

I just spoke with one of my former vets, and yes, they do use home fluid therapy for dogs.

Again...home fluid therapy in the UK is fairly new. Maybe your vet's personal preference is based on that?  The first time they tried to teach me to administer fluids I cried - I thought it was barbaric and couldn't imagine living like that.  Then I saw how much better my cat looked and acted. And that, once I was comfortable with the process....she would purr or sleep through it.

It might be worth it for you for try it for a few weeks and see how it all pans out.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 11, 2016)

Yeah they did but that was when his BUN was holding steady at around 16, in the space of a week since the last fluid therapy it's gone up to 50. 

It was a different vet today and he's happy for me to take him in for fluids so I will have to see how effective that is.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 11, 2016)

But I will also ask the question about home administration of fluids. How often did you administer them to your cat?


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## reflection (Aug 11, 2016)

sonya, i'm so sorry to hear your buster is so sick. it's hard to even read this thread. as long as he's not in pain i wouldn't rush to make a decision if you just aren't sure yet. i can't remember if you've mentioned if you have gotten a second opinion. i'd definitely do that before making a final decision. maybe there is a specialist you can talk to. here's hoping anyway.


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## DeeAnna (Aug 11, 2016)

I've done subcutaneous fluids for sick dogs and cats. It's a little scary at first -- sharp needles and all that -- but it's not hard after a bit of practice. And they feel better afterwards, which makes me feel better about it too. If you can do this the first time at the vet clinic with the vet or a tech supervising, that might be a great idea if you've never done things like this before.


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## lenarenee (Aug 11, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> Yeah they did but that was when his BUN was holding steady at around 16, in the space of a week since the last fluid therapy it's gone up to 50.
> 
> It was a different vet today and he's happy for me to take him in for fluids so I will have to see how effective that is.


 
While I would expect his BUN level to go up considerably in a week's time without fluids, I can't speak to how "bad" or not bad it is to swing to 50 from 16 during that time frame.

Fluids do not "fix" the cause of BUN levels, but consistent use helps flush them out of the blood.  Every protein meal increases BUN levels.

I can tell you, (also answering your next question...) my cat started with fluids twice a week, went up to every other day within a year's time.  I've known people who gave daily, and even twice daily fluids to their cat.

It got to the point where I could tell when my cat needed them, or when I could delay them 12 - 24 hours without consequence to her.  There were still bad days, more struggles with appetite, but definitely more good than bad and it was worth it for us.


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## lenarenee (Aug 11, 2016)

DeeAnna said:


> I've done subcutaneous fluids for sick dogs and cats. It's a little scary at first -- sharp needles and all that -- but it's not hard after a bit of practice. And they feel better afterwards, which makes me feel better about it too. If you can do this the first time at the vet clinic with the vet or a tech supervising, that might be a great idea if you've never done things like this before.


 
There's a ton of videos on YouTube done by vet techs too. And the "scruff" area they show you (same area for cats and dogs) has fewer nerves in the skin so really doesn't cause much discomfort at all.

The skin of cats and dogs is not attached to the flesh like humans, so the needle pierces less of the body, than it would for humans.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 12, 2016)

reflection said:


> sonya, i'm so sorry to hear your buster is so sick. it's hard to even read this thread. as long as he's not in pain i wouldn't rush to make a decision if you just aren't sure yet. i can't remember if you've mentioned if you have gotten a second opinion. i'd definitely do that before making a final decision. maybe there is a specialist you can talk to. here's hoping anyway.




He's seen 3 different vets now, 2 at our local practice and the one that looked after him at the hospital. Of those 3, 2 have seen him this week and are in agreement that he's crashed pretty quickly since leaving the hospital and that they would be considering euthanasia in the next few weeks. 

I'm not ready to lose him yet so we will take him today for these fluids and ask the question of fluids at home also. 

I just need to make sure I'm not holding onto him for our own selfish needs - I don't want him to suffer.


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## Susie (Aug 12, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> He's seen 3 different vets now, 2 at our local practice and the one that looked after him at the hospital. Of those 3, 2 have seen him this week and are in agreement that he's crashed pretty quickly since leaving the hospital and that they would be considering euthanasia in the next few weeks.
> 
> I'm not ready to lose him yet so we will take him today for these fluids and ask the question of fluids at home also.
> 
> *I just need to make sure I'm not holding onto him for our own selfish needs - I don't want him to suffer.*



That is the real question here, not whether fluids can be done at home or not.

I am most worried about the pancreatitis pain.  It is one of the worst pains in humans.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 12, 2016)

I agree Susie and I intend to ask the vet today having had him in for the day if he believes he is in pain or not.


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## Dahila (Aug 12, 2016)

The problem with dogs is; they show the pain only when there is not way to hide it.  I would observe him closely.  Sonya you will know when he is in pain, in a lot of pain.......


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## TeresaT (Aug 12, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> He's seen 3 different vets now, 2 at our local practice and the one that looked after him at the hospital. Of those 3, 2 have seen him this week and are in agreement that he's crashed pretty quickly since leaving the hospital and that they would be considering euthanasia in the next few weeks.
> 
> I'm not ready to lose him yet so we will take him today for these fluids and ask the question of fluids at home also.
> 
> *I just need to make sure I'm not holding onto him for our own selfish needs - I don't want him to suffer*.



And that right there is the deciding factor.  Every case, every animal, every situation is different.  Only you can decide when "enough is enough."  Shredder had Cushings disease.  Her medicine was not working.  She was not "suffering."  She wasn't in any pain, she wasn't miserable or at death's door.  She was still quite chipper most of the time.  However, she was "off."  Extremely "off."  She drank excessively and then couldn't make it outside to relieve herself.  Her belly was bloated so badly I though she would either float or burst.  She panted. Constantly.  Even sitting in front of a fan blowing full on her.  She had difficulty getting up onto things.  Some days she would eat everything in sight and other days she didn't want anything at all.  She was a barker.  She barked long and loud at everything.  When she stopped doing that, I knew it was time.  For her not to want to bark for an hour at the squirrels in the yard was definitely a signal she was not herself.  And no matter how much I "forgave" her for peeing on the carpets, there was just no way to get around the fact that she wasn't barking like a psycho-mutt or attacking Max for daring to try to sit with me.  

I probably _could_ have tried stronger doses of medicine or waited longer to see if she would have improved, but her quality of life was going downhill.  I wanted her to go to sleep before she was too miserable to enjoy life.  I had waited far too long with my beloved cat Coney; she suffered far too long with old age and the infirmity that comes with it.  And I waited too long with my diabetic dog Daisy.  She suffered such horrendous extremes in sugar levels that if she had been human it would have killed her.    

I swore I would never let another one of my animals continue on just to keep me happy.  The greatest gift we can give to the animals we love is the gift and respect of a easy passing.  I held Shredder in my arms as she was given the medicines.  And I held her after the doctor pronounced her deceased.  They gave me all of the time I wanted/needed with her.  She is the only pet that I don't have any guilty feelings over.  I know I did the absolute best I possibly could have done for her.  She had 9.5 great years.

Good luck with your decision.  It is the hardest decision to make.  But when you make it, you are making it for all of the right reasons.  There is nothing selfish or cruel about ending your best buddy's suffering.  On the contrary, prolonging it just to have him around is the selfish and cruel thing to do.  And I've definitely been guilty of that in my past.


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## lenarenee (Aug 12, 2016)

I wasn't going to bring these up until later, but at this point I think its only fair to give you this info and you can do with it what you want.

Has anyone mentioned supplementing with fresh Omega 3's? (many are already rancid by the time you buy then in the store) Some cases have had good luck with them in reducing inflammation/workload of the kidneys, some regained some function. (Used them for my cat...who's disease did slow its progression BUT that isn't necessarily proof)

Also, they were investigating the use of ketoacids as substitutes for protein. Used in rats, the last time I knew, starting use in cats (I didn't), and I don't know about dogs.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 13, 2016)

He had fluid therapy yesterday and it brought his BUN down to 33. Still high but not as bad as the 50 it was on Tuesday. 

As he was with the vet all day I asked if he believed him to be in pain or suffering and he doesn't believe he is. 

He wants to see him again in a couple of weeks for a blood test to see how quickly the BUN is building up. 

The challenge I'm facing is his unwillingness to eat regularly - it's very sporadic. He tends not to want to eat on the morning but comes round by mid afternoon. I wish he would eat a bit more - I've tried every food out there!

I asked about sub q fluids and my vet said he would be willing to show me how but said for Buster's size and blood levels he would need a lot of fluid using multiple sites and that in his opinion it would cause him discomfort. I've decided I'm not going down that route as I'm not willing to cause him discomfort at home. 

I will look into the omega 3 oils though. 

When Buster was admitted to hospital and it became apparent that he was going to be sick for the long term I made the decision to move my flight for my holiday from last Sunday to this coming Sunday in case he was well enough to be left with the dog sitter. My husband wants me to go out and join him on Sunday and to leave Buster with his dad. It feels like a no win situation cos if I go I'm gonna panic about buster everyday and not enjoy it at all as well as making the other people we're away with miserable too. If I stay to look after Buster I'm going to make myself sick with worry as I'm not eating or sleeping well. The vet told me to go, said he would be caught right off guard if buster deteriorated hugely in the next week but that he obviously can't make any promises. I think if he was eating more I may have been OK with going. 

This whole thing is making me ill, I'm staying up really late so that I'm tired enough to sleep, usually around 1am but then I'm waking up at 6am everyday with this horrid heavy feeling on my chest. And I'm doing on my own at the moment because my husband is away and most of the friends I would visit are on the same holiday.


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## lenarenee (Aug 13, 2016)

Does your vet, or another vet, board animals?  They could keep a close eye on him, and be right there if he needed something.

Can they recommend a pet sitter that is a vet technician - would that help you feel better if you went on the trip?

Sonya, I wonder about the vet's statement about discomfort from sub Q fluids. My vets,  and the cat owners that helped me, always said there is either no discomfort - to very little discomfort.  I've seen cats sleep through the process. Maybe think about trying for a week and see what you think Buster's experience is.

Most importantly Sonya, you sound very alone - is there anyone you've been talking to besides vets?  Someone who can just listen?



Sonya-m said:


> He had fluid therapy yesterday and it brought his BUN down to 33. Still high but not as bad as the 50 it was on Tuesday.
> 
> As he was with the vet all day I asked if he believed him to be in pain or suffering and he doesn't believe he is.
> 
> ...


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## Sonya-m (Aug 13, 2016)

I think I'm going to leave him with my in laws. Neither option fills me with any happiness but I'm making myself sick with worry. 

I don't think he's going to see September if I'm honest - he's hardly eating anything at all. He's going to starve to death - it has to be the urea building up in his system making him feel sick. In which case I probably should have already done the right thing by him.


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## lenarenee (Aug 13, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> I think I'm going to leave him with my in laws. Neither option fills me with any happiness but I'm making myself sick with worry.
> 
> I don't think he's going to see September if I'm honest - he's hardly eating anything at all. He's going to starve to death - it has to be the urea building up in his system making him feel sick. In which case I probably should have already done the right thing by him.


 
Sonya, you're under a lot of pressure. Would you like to be with him at the end? Maybe consider ending it now, while he's not feeling horrible. You'll be grieving on your trip - but not worried sick about his condition or feeling guilty for not being there. If he doesn't know your in-laws well - he may not respond well to being there. (then again...it may not be a problem)

It would not be wrong or selfish. We know how this will end anyway. Even if he could live a few more months there will be bad and good days, but I'm concerned the stress on you both will simply not be advisable. 

There is no moral right or wrong here. It's about what you and Buster need.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 13, 2016)

He likes the in laws a lot and I know he'll be ok there. Yeah I'm scared of not being there for him at the end but I'm making myself sick now. 

It's Saturday night here now and if I go on the trip I need to leave at 6am so need to take him to the in laws tonight.


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## lenarenee (Aug 13, 2016)

He'll be well loved and feel safe then!  Leave an artice  of your unwashed clothing for him to snuggle.

I will be thinking and praying for you both every single day....that you will be home to care for him again.  Please rest Sonya. Have a good cry. And know that you've done your best, and done way more than a lot of people would.  Have a safe trip, enjoy as much as you can. Big hugs.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 14, 2016)

I know he's gonna be looked after s d he likes them but I feel like I've let him down by leaving him when he needs me. I'm weak because I can't do this week again. I'm gonna lose him whilst I'm away and I won't be there for him. 

I'm driving myself crazy over this


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## lenarenee (Aug 14, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> I know he's gonna be looked after s d he likes them but I feel like I've let him down by leaving him when he needs me. I'm weak because I can't do this week again. I'm gonna lose him whilst I'm away and I won't be there for him.
> 
> I'm driving myself crazy over this


 
Sonya, _listen_ to me. Right now I don't think you are not psychologically able to go through this another week. Re-read your post - you said it yourself. 

There's a very good chance, given the most recent numbers, that he will still be there when you get back.....BUT...

He needs to be taken to the vets for fluid treatments 2 - 3 times a week, (more even he needs it) and if he's not eating enough...they can syringe feed him. They can tube feed him. IV feed him. 

It's important to keep the creatinine and BUN numbers down (It's okay if they're not normal/healthy - just low enough to keep him feeling okay)...that has a lot to do with appetite. FLUIDS!

Tell the in-laws and vets (I know you're leaving in the morning... you can leave a voice mail) to keep him going another week. 

And there's also a chance that Buster will benefit from having less worried and stressed caretakers this week. Remember, the vet himself even said that he didn't think it was time for euthanasia.

Unless something new crops up, I _truly_ believe he's got a good chance of being there when you get back - your in laws and vets must be on board with this.  They can provide the medical support he may need.


But Sonya, if you honestly think you can't live with yourself if you go on this trip (I know you have a husband and have to take that into consideration) then don't go. 

I'm concerned with your level of stress, also wondering if you feel supported by the people around you in the UK. You need to take care of yourself. 

And you have NOT failed Buster. Absolutely have NOT failed him.

Check your pm.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 21, 2016)

Back home, Buster seems to have enjoyed his time at his grandparents and looks to have put on a little weight. 

Worried what the future holds still as he's obviously ill bit hoping his blood test this week will be better news than before. 

Also worried he's not gonna eat much still but right now he can eat whatever he wants as its better than not eating


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## Arimara (Aug 21, 2016)

Weight gain's better than weight loss in this case. Still, It's nice to hear he's enjoying life.


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## Cindy2428 (Aug 21, 2016)

Glad you had a little break Sonya - I'm sure Buster was sensing your stress as well.


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## TeresaT (Aug 21, 2016)

Glad he's doing better and you've had a bit of a much needed break.  I think your stress levels were increasing his stress levels and you were both feeding off of each other.  I hope you can relax around him so he can relax and be himself, what ever "himself" might be these days.  Weight gain is great. Just try to stop worrying (nearly impossible, I know) and just get on with being happy.  Happy people and animals are healthier, heal faster and are able to deal with chronic diseases much better than unhappy and stressed out people and animals.   Your attitude has major influences on his health.


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## galaxyMLP (Aug 21, 2016)

Sonya, I'm so glad he's put on some (small amount) of weight at the in-laws. I'll be thinking of you and Buster and sending positive thoughts for good test results. 

I think you are one of the most wonderful pet mommies I've ever seen/read. You should take a moment and praise yourself for the love and care you give to Buster. He's lucky to have someone like you!


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## Sonya-m (Aug 23, 2016)

Thanks everyone for the support you've all shown me over the past horrid month. 

I know the worst is still to come but for now I'm trying my best to live each day as it comes. 

He's spending the day with my father in law today so he's not by himself whilst I'm at work.


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## Relle (Aug 23, 2016)

I'm so sorry to hear about Busters problems. I didn't read all your post as I can't, because have been through something similar with Pandora bunny the last few weeks and its been so upsetting. I can understand your horrid month and as you say take one day at a time. Keeping my fingers crossed.


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## dixiedragon (Aug 23, 2016)

Praying for you and Buster! I'm facing the same thing very soon - my mom and I were attending a craft show and found a beat-up old dog at a gas station. We posted his pic and info on several lost dog sites but nobody claimed him. The men at the gas station thought he had been an elderly person's dog and when the person died, the heirs dumped him. He has been a HANDFUL - he is some kind of hound mix so he doesn't bark, he HOWLS. He also climbs fences. Apparently this is a thing hound dogs do. So, in the two months we've had him, he's climbed the fence and escaped 4 times. We finally put a line in our fenced-in yard and clip him to the line. He has an inoperable bladder tumor. He's only been with us two months and I bawled when I heard. We will be putting him down this weekend.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 23, 2016)

Oh that's awful! Both that he's sick and that he was potentially dumped! I am dreading the day we have to do the best thing for Buster. 

I will be thinking about you this weekend


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## dixiedragon (Aug 23, 2016)

Thank you for your kind words. I take comfort in the fact that he did not spend June and July outside - they were brutally hot this year, with heat index reaching 110 more than once. He got lots of attention and affection. He was comfortable. He had companionship from other dogs. He got lots of good food. He actually made off with a rack of lamb that we had to rescue! His last 2 months were comfortable and safe.

There's a humorous twitter thing floating around that's something like, "When God made animals." For dogs: Man, these are great. I'm going to want all of these back eventually."


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## Dahila (Aug 23, 2016)

Dixie you are the dog's angel.   YOu provided for old sick dog comfortable two months. As sad as it is to put dog down, it is for not prolonging suffering. I had been there and every time is heart breaking.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 25, 2016)

dixiedragon said:


> Thank you for your kind words. I take comfort in the fact that he did not spend June and July outside - they were brutally hot this year, with heat index reaching 110 more than once. He got lots of attention and affection. He was comfortable. He had companionship from other dogs. He got lots of good food. He actually made off with a rack of lamb that we had to rescue! His last 2 months were comfortable and safe.
> 
> There's a humorous twitter thing floating around that's something like, "When God made animals." For dogs: Man, these are great. I'm going to want all of these back eventually."




I'm glad you've made his last months what he deserved them to be. Still I know this weekend is going to be tough for you. Even though this is a rubbish outcome for him it would have been much worse if he hadn't found you, at least this way you can do the right thing for him. I don't know about you but I know for sure Buster will be taking a little of me with him when he goes. 

I love that little quote, dogs are pretty awesome.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 25, 2016)

Just been to the vets for blood and urine sample testing. Urine is low concentration as expected but no protein present which is positive. Blood results have the vet confused as his BUN (urea) has gone down to just 13.2 which is only just above normal. Two weeks ago it was 50 then a day of fluids brought it down to 33 but the vet was expecting it to have gone up again since the fluids not down. His creatinine has also come down from 665 to 441, still high but much better. 

The vet is now completely baffled so is sending his bloods of to the external lab for another full screening. 

He's loads happier the last few days. Trying not to get my hopes up too much cos something is clearly wrong since he's not able to produce a concentrated urine sample but for now I'm happy he's happier and we will take one day at a time.


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## crispysoap (Aug 25, 2016)

Wow that sounds promising! Even if it just means that he is happier  Buster must be enjoying having you home!!


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## lenarenee (Aug 25, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> Just been to the vets for blood and urine sample testing. Urine is low concentration as expected but no protein present which is positive. Blood results have the vet confused as his BUN (urea) has gone down to just 13.2 which is only just above normal. Two weeks ago it was 50 then a day of fluids brought it down to 33 but the vet was expecting it to have gone up again since the fluids not down. His creatinine has also come down from 665 to 441, still high but much better.
> 
> The vet is now completely baffled so is sending his bloods of to the external lab for another full screening.
> 
> He's loads happier the last few days. Trying not to get my hopes up too much cos something is clearly wrong since he's not able to produce a concentrated urine sample but for now I'm happy he's happier and we will take one day at a time.


 

Sonya - your post just described life with kidney disease. This is the new normal. He could live months and years like this. 
Kidney disease doesn't get better - the numbers cycle up and down and the struggle is to find what works in keeping it stable as possible.

Wonder what your in-laws were feeding him, or was his stress greatly reduced and that allowed him to improve?  Even exposure to a different environment with fewer breathable toxins? Could be a weekend now and then with them might just be the ticket!

Glad you're home safe from your trip, and hope you could enjoy some of it.


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## TeresaT (Aug 25, 2016)

dixiedragon said:


> Praying for you and Buster! I'm facing the same thing very soon - my mom and I were attending a craft show and found a beat-up old dog at a gas station. We posted his pic and info on several lost dog sites but nobody claimed him. The men at the gas station thought he had been an elderly person's dog and when the person died, the heirs dumped him. He has been a HANDFUL - he is some kind of hound mix so he doesn't bark, he HOWLS. He also climbs fences. Apparently this is a thing hound dogs do. So, in the two months we've had him, he's climbed the fence and escaped 4 times. We finally put a line in our fenced-in yard and clip him to the line. He has an inoperable bladder tumor. He's only been with us two months and I bawled when I heard. We will be putting him down this weekend.


 
I'm sorry. That's horrible. At least you're giving the old man the best end of life care he can get. I had a hound mix and yes, that is their typical behavior. They howl instead of bark (which I actually love) and they will NOT stay in the yard. If they're not climbing fences, they're digging under them.



Sonya-m said:


> Just been to the vets for blood and urine sample testing. Urine is low concentration as expected but no protein present which is positive. Blood results have the vet confused as his BUN (urea) has gone down to just 13.2 which is only just above normal. Two weeks ago it was 50 then a day of fluids brought it down to 33 but the vet was expecting it to have gone up again since the fluids not down. His creatinine has also come down from 665 to 441, still high but much better.
> 
> The vet is now completely baffled so is sending his bloods of to the external lab for another full screening.
> 
> He's loads happier the last few days. Trying not to get my hopes up too much cos *something is clearly wrong since he's not able to produce a concentrated urine sample* but for now I'm happy he's happier and we will take one day at a time.


 
Is he drinking a lot of water? Isn't that a good thing not having "concentrated" urine? I don't know enough (or anything) about medicine to understand this. I know in humans we need to drink plenty of fluids because the goal is not to have a strong urine--it's supposed to be as close to clear as possible and odorless. Why isn't that good for dogs? Why would having a concentrated urine be good? I would think that would put stress on the kidneys and bladder (not filtering enough toxins from the body). 

Anyway, I'm glad he seems to be doing better. Maybe that's his ticket to improved health: visiting grandpa for play dates. You know he's well taken care of and he gets to have fun. Win-win for everyone. As long as grandpa doesn't mind doggy duty, that is.


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## lenarenee (Aug 25, 2016)

TeresaT said:


> Is he drinking a lot of water? Isn't that a good thing not having "concentrated" urine? I don't know enough (or anything) about medicine to understand this. I know in humans we need to drink plenty of fluids because the goal is not to have a strong urine--it's supposed to be as close to clear as possible and odorless. Why isn't that good for dogs? Why would having a concentrated urine be good? I would think that would put stress on the kidneys and bladder (not filtering enough toxins from the body).
> 
> Anyway, I'm glad he seems to be doing better. Maybe that's his ticket to improved health: visiting grandpa for play dates. You know he's well taken care of and he gets to have fun. Win-win for everyone. As long as grandpa doesn't mind doggy duty, that is.


 
There's still a "healthy" level of concentration for urine. With CKD the body uses a lot more water to try to filter out toxins, some of that should be recycled back into the blood stream but it isn't. Dehydration becomes a problem. Another reason to use fluid treatment at home.


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## dixiedragon (Aug 26, 2016)

TeresaT said:


> I'm sorry. That's horrible. At least you're giving the old man the best end of life care he can get. I had a hound mix and yes, that is their typical behavior. They howl instead of bark (which I actually love) and they will NOT stay in the yard. If they're not climbing fences, they're digging under them.


 
I enjoy the howling as well. I can just imagine a pack of hounds all howling and what a sound that must be! But it is disconcerting when he does it about 1 foot away from you because he wants your enchilada.

The fence climbing thing...I'm not a fan.


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## MySoapyHeart (Aug 26, 2016)

dixiedragon said:


> Praying for you and Buster! I'm facing the same thing very soon - my mom and I were attending a craft show and found a beat-up old dog at a gas station. We posted his pic and info on several lost dog sites but nobody claimed him. The men at the gas station thought he had been an elderly person's dog and when the person died, the heirs dumped him. He has been a HANDFUL - he is some kind of hound mix so he doesn't bark, he HOWLS. He also climbs fences. Apparently this is a thing hound dogs do. So, in the two months we've had him, he's climbed the fence and escaped 4 times. We finally put a line in our fenced-in yard and clip him to the line. He has an inoperable bladder tumor. He's only been with us two months and I bawled when I heard. We will be putting him down this weekend.



I feel a bit uneasy to hit `like` on a post when you mention having to put a sweet (howling) dog to sleep, but it was because you saved him from many weeks of agony, lonelyness and lack of love. 

Thanks SO much for doing that <3


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## Susie (Aug 26, 2016)

I always think twice about hitting the "like" button.  But it was explained here some time back that it means you "agree" or "appreciate" what was said.  I can hit it with those definitions in place.


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## Sonya-m (Sep 3, 2016)

Update on Buster. The lab results were the same as the results at the vet so that's positive. They also show that his phosphorus levels are elevated so he's been prescribed a phosphorus binder to help with that. I was worried he wouldn't eat with the powder on his food but he's eating it fine. All the meds he was on after his hospital stay are coming to an end now so feeling a little nervous he's gonna relapse but trying to stay calm. 

He got weighed this week and has put on around 350g, not a huge increase but any increase is better than still losing weight. 

He's happy, eating, drinking and is so much better than 3 weeks ago.


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## Susie (Sep 3, 2016)

OH!  That is WONDERFUL news!  Thank you for the update!


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## TeresaT (Sep 3, 2016)

Sonya-m said:


> Update on Buster. The lab results were the same as the results at the vet so that's positive. They also show that his phosphorus levels are elevated so he's been prescribed a phosphorus binder to help with that. I was worried he wouldn't eat with the powder on his food but he's eating it fine. All the meds he was on after his hospital stay are coming to an end now so feeling a little nervous he's gonna relapse but trying to stay calm.
> 
> He got weighed this week and has put on around 350g, not a huge increase but any increase is better than still losing weight.
> 
> He's happy, eating, drinking and is so much better than 3 weeks ago.




Started bawling.   So glad you've got good news.  Yes, 350 g is much better than losing weight and eating, drinking and being happy are all you can ask for at this point.  Praying he's going to have a long and happy life with (extremely) rare bouts of torture just to remind you he's got a chronic disease.  Poor puppy.  On the positive side, you know what to expect when/if the next episode comes along.

ETA:  Yes.  Definitely happy tears.


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## lenarenee (Sep 3, 2016)

Tears of joy? Me too! But I just knew it wasn't Buster's time yet and I'm so proud of Sonya for fighting through this tough situation.


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## Rowan (Sep 4, 2016)

Ok, floods of tears too, but really happy tears! I'm so relieved for you and buster. It's amazing news. Very proud of you for sticking by him and helping him through it


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## BlackDog (Sep 4, 2016)

I'm so happy to hear Buster has made it through this event.  Many hopes for a long and happy life for him - we have all seen what amazing care you're capable of giving him!


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