# CP versus HP - Do any of you do both?



## Meena (Jan 2, 2019)

Here's a newb question:  Do people tend to do CP OR HP but not both, or do some of you switch back and forth?  What might be some reasons to do both or to stick to just one process?  
I ask as more than an intellectual exercise -- I'm trying to decide where to start, and if there is a wisdom in specializing in one or the other.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jan 2, 2019)

I do both, but I prefer CP... just easier. The pour especially. Often (but not always) with HP you hafta glop the soap into the mold and the texture is somewhat rustic looking.


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## Misschief (Jan 3, 2019)

I've done both but much prefer CP. I use HP only for rebatching and shave/cream/liquid soap.


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## KiwiMoose (Jan 3, 2019)

From one newb to another - HP scares me!  I would never do it - although I am contemplating buying a crock pot solely for the purposes of rebatching.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jan 3, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> ...although I am contemplating buying a crock pot solely for the purposes of rebatching.






  Yeah, right.


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## shunt2011 (Jan 3, 2019)

I've done both and prefer CP hands down.  I do use HP for my shave soap but that's about it.  Don't even rebatch.  Generally just shred and add it to another batch.


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## gloopygloop (Jan 3, 2019)

I started out with CP but then tried my hand at HP and never looked back as I much prefer it for many reasons. My suggestion would be to start with CP and get to know it first and then try out HP and see the difference, both have their challenges but they are different ones and you need to find out what you are more comfortable with and what you want your finished soaps to look like, this will also determine your choice between the two.


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## jcandleattic (Jan 3, 2019)

Depends on what look, scent, etc., I'm going for. I make both but I make more CP than I do HP.


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## IrishLass (Jan 3, 2019)

I do both. Basically, I'm a CP girl who only resorts to doing HP when she absolutely has to, such as when making my shaving soap and when I'm soaping a very ornery FO that doesn't take kindly to being CP'd. I find CP much easier and less time consuming than HP, and my soaps come out much smoother and prettier. Also, CP gives me more design options.....and it's definitely much easier to swirl in CP than HP.


IrishLass


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## SaltedFig (Jan 3, 2019)

Both, with a preference for CP.

I find CP allows for more creative designs; I really like the gentle swirls and the smooth, creamy finish of a good CP soap. 
(There's a bit of waiting involved, especially for ungelled CP, but it doesn't have to be particularly intense or frantic )

HP to me is all about the business end of making soap (it's quick to make, easy to clean and goes from cook to the curing rack in no time ).


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## dixiedragon (Jan 3, 2019)

I think most of us are mostly CPers, but I know at least 1 member who is mostly HP. I do think all soapers should try both at some point.

HP is totally not scary. It is generally going to be bumpy/lumpy on the top, but that's easily fixable with a cheese slicer. It has a huge advantage when working with some troublesome ingredients, such as spicy smelling FOs or spice EOs (clove, cinnamon, etc). I personally like to make my honey soap HP style, because I like to use 5% beeswax, so I can't soap cool. 

I think that either way is fine for a first batch, even. Just make sure you watch some videos of HP (soaping 101 has a good one), so you know what it looks like. HP might even be better than CP for a first timer, because it's a little more forgiving, since you are adding your FO after the cook so you don't have to worry about the FO causing ricing or seizing.


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## Dean (Jan 3, 2019)

I started CPing.  Then switched to HP so that I could choose the SF.  Realized all the SF was  going down the drain so switched back to CP.  Now am having a lil ash issue so will try CPOP next.


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## Relle (Jan 3, 2019)

I don't like the look of hp, so do all cp.


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## Meena (Jan 3, 2019)

gloopygloop said:


> I started out with CP but then tried my hand at HP and never looked back as I much prefer it for many reasons. My suggestion would be to start with CP and get to know it first and then try out HP and see the difference, both have their challenges but they are different ones and you need to find out what you are more comfortable with and what you want your finished soaps to look like, this will also determine your choice between the two.



Love this explanation and reasoning!  Sounds like a plan...   Thank you very much.  



Dean said:


> I started CPing.  Then switched to HP so that I could choose the SF.  Realized all the SF was  going down the drain so switched back to CP.  Now am having a lil ash issue so will try CPOP next.



Oh my gosh, i can't remember what SF is!!!  and CPOP?   Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!!   



dixiedragon said:


> I think most of us are mostly CPers, but I know at least 1 member who is mostly HP. I do think all soapers should try both at some point.
> 
> HP is totally not scary. It is generally going to be bumpy/lumpy on the top, but that's easily fixable with a cheese slicer. It has a huge advantage when working with some troublesome ingredients, such as spicy smelling FOs or spice EOs (clove, cinnamon, etc). I personally like to make my honey soap HP style, because I like to use 5% beeswax, so I can't soap cool.
> 
> I think that either way is fine for a first batch, even. Just make sure you watch some videos of HP (soaping 101 has a good one), so you know what it looks like. HP might even be better than CP for a first timer, because it's a little more forgiving, since you are adding your FO after the cook so you don't have to worry about the FO causing ricing or seizing.



This also is a great explanation and raises excellent points.  I need to find out what ricing and seizing are in this context...  Thank you so much.  I do like both rustic looks and smooth, sophisticated ones as well.  Depends on the overall artistic look one is after for a particular batch.  Sometimes you need your lug-soled ankle boots, and sometimes, high heels.  



IrishLass said:


> I do both. Basically, I'm a CP girl who only resorts to doing HP when she absolutely has to, such as when making my shaving soap and when I'm soaping a very ornery FO that doesn't take kindly to being CP'd. I find CP much easier and less time consuming than HP, and my soaps come out much smoother and prettier. Also, CP gives me more design options.....and it's definitely much easier to swirl in CP than HP.
> 
> 
> IrishLass



Super, but at this stage of my non-game D), I can't fathom why any FO would care.  I guess it's a chemistry thing?  Maybe certain oils don't like heat, is that why?



SaltedFig said:


> Both, with a preference for CP.
> 
> I find CP allows for more creative designs; I really like the gentle swirls and the smooth, creamy finish of a good CP soap.
> (There's a bit of waiting involved, especially for ungelled CP, but it doesn't have to be particularly intense or frantic )
> ...



Quick to make and easy to clean, hmmmm, you are tugging at my heart strings!  LOL!!


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## Steve85569 (Jan 4, 2019)

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/the-acronym-and-abbreviation-definition-thread.51841/
Is the link to all the short speak we use here. It takes a while to learn to speak soap.

I am like most I can do both but I almost always do CP or CPOP now. I started out with HP and fairly quickly changed over to CP.

Some FO's like to make soap on a stick ( accelerate) but behave well in HP. I have a few floral FO's that I have to be quick with.


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## Meena (Jan 4, 2019)

You soapers are all fantastic people!!   I appreciate all the input and will let it rattle around in my brain while I'm working myself up to actually DOING SOMETHING.     ThankYouThankYouThankYouThankYouThankYou



Steve85569 said:


> https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/the-acronym-and-abbreviation-definition-thread.51841/
> Is the link to all the short speak we use here. It takes a while to learn to speak soap.
> 
> I am like most I can do both but I almost always do CP or CPOP now. I started out with HP and fairly quickly changed over to CP.
> ...




OK, now i am REALLY going to have to delve into the chemistry of this FO matter.  Or maybe not, since I'm "organic girl" and so might probably stick to EOs....  or do they have "finicky" issues, as well?   Oh, and thanks for the lingo link!


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## dibbles (Jan 4, 2019)

The spice - particularly clove - and floral EOs can be finicky too. Citrus EOs will fade quickly. The usage rates are different as well, so be sure to check.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jan 4, 2019)

Meena said:


> You soapers are all fantastic people!!   I appreciate all the input and will let it rattle around in my brain while I'm working myself up to actually DOING SOMETHING.     ThankYouThankYouThankYouThankYouThankYou


YW YW YW YW YW ...It helps when Newbies ask questions we know the answer to! 


Meena said:


> ...I'm "organic girl" and so might probably stick to EOs....  or do they have "finicky" issues, as well?


"Stick" is the operative word. Getting EOs to "stick", i.e., linger more than 6 months or so, takes a bit of knowledge and experience. I used EOs only for 5 years and then switched to FOs because fragrance sells, and FOs deliver scent better.


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## Richard Perrine (Jan 4, 2019)

I'm relatively new to soap-making and do both. I am with many others as I prefer CP (easier, smoother pour). I use HP for my transparent soap and every once in a while to mix it up. I just don't have the skills to make the HP (not transparent soap) consistent for me and the final product doesn't look as pleasing.


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## gacowgirl (Jan 4, 2019)

Meena said:


> Here's a newb question:  Do people tend to do CP OR HP but not both, or do some of you switch back and forth?  What might be some reasons to do both or to stick to just one process?
> I ask as more than an intellectual exercise -- I'm trying to decide where to start, and if there is a wisdom in specializing in one or the other.



I started out with HP and still like it because of cure time. I have since added CP to my skills but prefer HP. I don't do all the cute and pretty soaps. Instead, I concentrate on having a great quality of ingredients. Just my preference.


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## shunt2011 (Jan 4, 2019)

gacowgirl said:


> I started out with HP and still like it because of cure time. I have since added CP to my skills but prefer HP. I don't do all the cute and pretty soaps. Instead, I concentrate on having a great quality of ingredients. Just my preference.



What do you mean because of the cure time?  HP requires just as much cure time as CP and sometimes longer as more liquid is used in HP.


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## jcandleattic (Jan 4, 2019)

gacowgirl said:


> I started out with HP and still like it because of cure time.


HP should be cured just as long as CP soap. The difference between HP and CP is the saponification time. It's quicker in HP than in CP. Soap is safe to use after saponification is complete - in HP that's as soon as the cook is over, in CP that is anywhere between 24-72 hours.


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## IrishLass (Jan 4, 2019)

Meena said:


> Super, but at this stage of my non-game D), I can't fathom why any FO would care.  I guess it's a chemistry thing?  Maybe certain oils don't like heat, is that why?



It's a chemistry thing between the lye and certain constituents present in the ornery FO.... and also certain EOs as well.

One of the most ornery constituents is eugenol, found in abundance in your more spicier EOs such as clove EO, and also several FOs (FOs are a mix of EOs and manufactured chemicals). It causes what many of us refer to as 'soap-on-a-stick', i.e., when after adding your FO or EO the soap batter all of a sudden thickens up lightening fast and hardens on you while you are in the middle of stirring or stick-blending your soap batter. Basically, the batter goes from being nicely fluid to solid right before your eyes in a matter of a few seconds. It's the bane of many a soaper-maker. The way to avoid soap-on-a-stick with known ornery FOs or EOs is to HP them and hold off on mixing them in until after the cook when your lye has all been completely reacted with the oils/fats. 



			
				gacowgirl said:
			
		

> I started out with HP and still like it because of cure time.



Ditto what Jcandleattic said in post #22. Unfortunately, there's a lot of misinformation in regards to HP and cure time spread out all over the net, but the truth of the matter is that saponification time and cure time are 2 very different things. Saponification gives you soap that will bubble and clean, but cure goes one better by giving you _awesome_ soap that lathers much better, is more gentle, and lasts much longer than soap straight from the mold.

For example, contrary to a lot of the misinformation out there about CP vs HP, my gelled CP is actually completely saponified/zap-free and safe to use as soon as I unmold and cut, just the same as my HP is, but neither have fully matured yet to the best they can be according to what I built into their formula(s). Both lather up nice enough straight from the mold, but neither is as gentle or as bubbly or as hard and long-lasting as they are once 4 to 6 weeks of cure have passed. That's because of what goes on inside soap during cure. Here is our DeeAnna's wonderful treatise about what chemically takes place inside of a soap as it cures, and why it is more gentle and more bubbly and more long-lasting if given at least 4 weeks to cure:

*http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=634104&postcount=51*


IrishLass


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## DeeAnna (Jan 4, 2019)

I was watching a batch of my CP soap gel in the mold the other day. As the signs of gel spread from the center to the ends of the mold, I thought to myself, "How is this any greatly different than watching HP soap gel in a soap pot?" 

I don't make a lot of HP, but of the batches I have made, the cut bars have stayed softer for weeks compared with to equivalent CP soap bars. Soft soap is soap that doesn't last as long in the bath. That ... and the definite improvement in lather quality ... is enough reason for me to cure HP soap at least as long as CP soap, and maybe even a little longer.


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## jcandleattic (Jan 4, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> "How is this any greatly different than watching HP soap gel in a soap pot?"


IMO it's not. I mean, I'm not as eloquently scientific as you are, but really all HP does is speed up saponification through the added heat. HP just does that quicker than CP does.


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## KiwiMoose (Jan 4, 2019)

Zany_in_CO said:


> "Stick" is the operative word. Getting EOs to "stick", i.e., linger more than 6 months or so, takes a bit of knowledge and experience. I used EOs only for 5 years and then switched to FOs because fragrance sells, and FOs deliver scent better.


I will just add to that - My soaps haven't been in existence long enough to test 'stickability' of EOs but I was the adamant when I started that I would only ever use EOs. I could tell after a few weeks of curing that they weren't going to stick, so I started using a combination of FOs AND EOs together.  I feel more comfortable with that, than going wholly FO.  For example - when I made my Lime and Coconut bars, I used a lime and coconut FO, but I also used bergamot (which is an EO from citrus) and a touch of lemon EO.  In my somewhat loopy head that helps me feel better when trying to go for the 'no artificial additives' approach.


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## loriag (Jan 4, 2019)

I’ve had a small croc pot for a year just for rebatching or HP and haven’t used it once. I love CP. At first I didn’t like the look of HP but the all natural colour of a HP is now appealing to me. Who knows maybe it will happen yet.


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## dixiedragon (Jan 4, 2019)

This thread has lots of pictures of soap going wrong:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/a-picture-of-ricing-volcanos-separating-overheating.52097/

https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/tips-and-tricks/soap-behaving-badly/

Super, but at this stage of my non-game D), I can't fathom why any FO would care. I guess it's a chemistry thing? Maybe certain oils don't like heat, is that why?​
I don't know the exact science, but my understanding is that the fragrance (FO or EO) is reacting with the lye that is still present in the raw soap batter. If you do HP, most of the lye is gone by the end of the cook, because it has combined with the oils to form a new substance - soap. Certain FOs - spicy (cinnamon and clove), florals and salty come to mind - are notorious for this.


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## msunnerstood (Jan 4, 2019)

I do HP only and I dont think I have to Glop my soap into the molds. Ive been able to get a more fluid result. No doubt swirls can be much nicer in CP but Ive done some pretty soaps with HP that end up looking smooth and pretty instead of rustic. Clean up is always easier.


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## gacowgirl (Jan 4, 2019)

Excuse me for making a comment. To me, when my HP water discounted soap has gone through saponification in my crockpot and I put it into the mold and level it, it is safe to use. And I do use it. So do a lot of other people who get soap from me. My soap has never made a 6 month cure time and I don't know what is expected of the soap after saponification is complete. Even experienced soapers have commented on how lush and long lasting my soaps are.    So to all of you who attacked a self-professed newbie, don't worry. You won't get to do it again. I came here to learn. What a cat attack.


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## Hendejm (Jan 4, 2019)

I could be wrong - but I don’t believe anyone was attacking. Rather - they were giving informed opinions. I trust the experience of others that can only come with time and trial/error. I have learned so much from people on this forum and they have saved me more than once in regards to soaping. 

May I suggest that you put one batch aside and let it cure for a period of 6 weeks and test the difference for yourself. I have found for me -  that instead of lashing out, it’s better to either trust or experiment yourself so you are making a complete, informed decision or choice. 

I want to keep things civil and not add to any negative discourse so please take my words in the spirit in which they are given.


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## Meena (Jan 4, 2019)

Personally, I use an Ayurvedic bar soap and a Sandalwood (Mysore Sandal) one.  They are ugly as sin, but they are the only non-conventional soaps that my wallet feels comfy buying regularly.  My next favorite, which I buy on a splurge basis, is Dr. Bronner's Hemp Rose or their Peppermint.  So I get what you're saying about "great quality of ingredients" over "cute and pretty."  I hope to some day produce some beautiful soaps like in the Gallery here, but at the outset I'll be concentrating on perfecting some great-for-skin recipes from near- or actual "food grade" ingredients.  Dr. Joseph Mercola (one of my health heroes) once wrote that you shouldn't put anything on your skin that you wouldn't put in your mouth, and I adopted that as my 'bar' (no pun intended), though a difficult standard unless you make your own stuff.

What I don't like about the soaps I'm using is they don't last worth a crap!  The Ayurvedic one is coconut oil-based.  I'm not sure if they're not curing the soaps long enough, or if there is some other problem.  I read about an ingredient -- I think it's Sodium something (sorry, my head is crammed with new soap stuff banging around ungelled [lol]) -- that helps soap get harder during curing, and last longer in the shower, but I have to look into the safety of that ingredient, what it's derived from, whether there's a possibility of it coming from GMO sources, and stuff like that.

I'm fascinated that some of you make lotions because that's another goal.  I do 'make' my own lotion from a purchased, unscented, health food store bottle as the base, to which I add Vitamin E oil, almond or other oils, several EOs, shea butter, and other fun things lying about in cupboards, but the ultimate would be to make my own base, also.

Thank you for sharing.


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## dibbles (Jan 5, 2019)

Meena said:


> What I don't like about the soaps I'm using is they don't last worth a crap!  The Ayurvedic one is coconut oil-based.  I'm not sure if they're not curing the soaps long enough, or if there is some other problem.  I read about an ingredient -- I think it's Sodium something (sorry, my head is crammed with new soap stuff banging around ungelled [lol]) -- that helps soap get harder during curing, and last longer in the shower, but I have to look into the safety of that ingredient, what it's derived from, whether there's a possibility of it coming from GMO sources, and stuff like that.
> Thank you for sharing.


You are probably thinking of sodium lactate. It will help with initial hardening so the soap can be unmolded sooner, but I'm not sure it makes the soap last longer. You may have read that here. I use it in most of my soap batches.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jan 5, 2019)

Meena said:


> ...(sorry, my head is crammed with new soap stuff banging around ungelled [lol])


hahaha Too funny! Meena, we are on the same page with our soaping goals. "Great-for-skin" formulas are what it's all about for me -- everything I make (custom orders excepted) is formulated for Denver Dry Skin -- including lotion, lip balm, etc. I also make a Dr Bronner's Baby Mild Castile liquid soap (type) dupe. Once you get the hang of it, you'll be able to dupe all of your favorite bars to your heart's content... and maybe even improve them by making them longer lasting.


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## jcandleattic (Jan 5, 2019)

gacowgirl said:


> Excuse me for making a comment. To me, when my HP water discounted soap has gone through saponification in my crockpot and I put it into the mold and level it, it is safe to use. And I do use it. So do a lot of other people who get soap from me. My soap has never made a 6 month cure time and I don't know what is expected of the soap after saponification is complete. Even experienced soapers have commented on how lush and long lasting my soaps are.    So to all of you who attacked a self-professed newbie, don't worry. You won't get to do it again. I came here to learn. What a cat attack.


What we are saying is yes, it IS and will be SAFE to use as soon as saponification is complete. That is a given. Even CP soap is SAFE to use when saponification is complete. What we are saying is it is not cured. It will not be at it's optimum until a full cure has occurred of at least 4 weeks. That's all we are saying Nobody is attacking you, we are just trying to educate you.


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## Alfa_Lazcares (Jan 6, 2019)

gacowgirl said:


> Excuse me for making a comment. To me, when my HP water discounted soap has gone through saponification in my crockpot and I put it into the mold and level it, it is safe to use. And I do use it. So do a lot of other people who get soap from me. My soap has never made a 6 month cure time and I don't know what is expected of the soap after saponification is complete. Even experienced soapers have commented on how lush and long lasting my soaps are.    So to all of you who attacked a self-professed newbie, don't worry. You won't get to do it again. I came here to learn. What a cat attack.



What people are responding to was the “because of the cure time” part of your initial post. Cure time and saponification time are two different things. 

Yes, your HP soap is safe to use. No one here is debating that. 

What is expected about the soap after saponification is a good question and someone linked an article that talks about what happens to the soap after the saponification is over. 

But once again “saponification” and “cure time” are two different things and both happen to a soap regardless of method (HO vs CP). 

No one is attacking your soaps or method, you do you. But the suggestion is that, if your soaps are great without a cure time, then they’ll probably get even better after you give them time to cure. 



As for me, i do CP cause i dont have a crockpot. No other reason. I may one day do HP, but for the moment i’m pretty happy just doing CP soaps.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 6, 2019)

Not to say a crock pot isn't  helpful, but I don't use one for HP soaping. I work direct on the stove burner, watched very carefully, or in a warm water bath (bain marie). But I  also don't  cook the soap for hours, like some do ... I'm  sure a crock pot would be a big help in that case.


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## Fargood (Jan 6, 2019)

I do both. It depends on fragrance, time, desired results, etc.


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## SaltedFig (Jan 6, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Not to say a crock pot isn't  helpful, but I don't use one for HP soaping. I work direct on the stove burner, watched very carefully, *or in a warm water bath* (bain marie). But I  also don't  cook the soap for hours, like some do ... I'm  sure a crock pot would be a big help in that case.



Thank you DeeAnna, it is nice to read that you continue to use the SVHP (Sous Vide HP) method of soaping to make hot process soap! 

Sous Vide Hot Process (or SVHP)
Trivia: The process was named Sous Vide Hot Process (or SVHP for short), in reference to the modern method of cooking food using a temperature controlled water bath.

The equipment cost of SVHP soaping very low (it requires no items than likely to already exists in a kitchen (a pot, a cooktop and a wooden spoon to hang the bags on, or a rack and some plastic jugs to sit the bags in, as can be seen in the original pictorial).

While the original soapmaking challenge did not require any extra equipment, the SVHP technique was originally designed with an immersion heater in mind (a small, temperature controlled, water heater used to create a water bath from just about any pot or tub of water). With the surge in popularity of Sous Vide cooking (thanks Masterchef!), immersion heaters have become much cheaper to buy, and using a dedicated water bath simplifies this already simple Hot Process technique even further (no hot spots is my favourite part ).

Some bonuses with SVHP - the method is fast (I can have a fully saponified soap in the mold in under 20 minutes), can be used for most CP and HP soaps (including shave and liquid soaps) and SVHP does not need extra water for the "cook" (making switching between CP and HP recipes very easy)

If you are interested checking out how easy it is to get started with SVHP, the full description of the original technique, including a pictorial, is on the first page of the SVHP soap challenge, and all of the entry photo's are available in my media .

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/thr...ide-hp-soap-swirling.69725/page-6#post-698848


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## Twinkle (Jan 6, 2019)

i prefer CP cos the soap which IMO has a lot more advantages than HP. Only do HP when I'm impatient to try a new recipe cos i can use it immediately


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## Steve85569 (Jan 6, 2019)

Cure time:
Soap and wine are both safe to use when they are done working.
Both are better with time ( curing).
You CAN drink wine when it is done fermenting.
You CAN use soap when saponification is done.

Both get better with cure time regardless of whether or not hot processing is used (wine can be made in "hot process" too).
Just my 2 cents worth. No offense intended.


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## Alfa_Lazcares (Jan 6, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Not to say a crock pot isn't  helpful, but I don't use one for HP soaping. I work direct on the stove burner, watched very carefully, or in a warm water bath (bain marie). But I  also don't  cook the soap for hours, like some do ... I'm  sure a crock pot would be a big help in that case.



Ha! You can do that? Truth be told I just researched about HP at the very begining of my soap making adventure and since everyone talked about using a crockpot i just ditched the idea. Butusing bain marie I could do (right now my soaping “studio” doesnt have a stove, just a microwave!) thanks for the idea!


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## DeeAnna (Jan 6, 2019)

Yep, @Alfa_Lazcares, it works fine!  It's definitely safer and more controllable than soaping over direct stovetop heat. Either a typical hot water bath or @SaltedFig's sous vide method. Since I don't do a lot of HP and my HP batches are usually on the small side, I don't care to dedicate a crock pot just for soaping. A hot water bath works plenty good enough for what I do. Some people do HP in the oven too, but I think it's more energy efficient to use a water bath.


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## SaltedFig (Jan 6, 2019)

Alfa_Lazcares said:


> Ha! You can do that? Truth be told I just researched about HP at the very begining of my soap making adventure and since everyone talked about using a crockpot i just ditched the idea. Butusing bain marie I could do (right now my soaping “studio” doesnt have a stove, just a microwave!) thanks for the idea!



The SVHP method of works however the water bath is created - it works in a Suis Vide machine, a bain marie, a tub of water with an immersion heater or a simple pot of water (as demonstrated in the challenge).

It is the combination of the temperature control of the water bath and limiting the exposure of the soap to the atmosphere that makes the process - these are two key points to my invention. In my original experiments, I also used steam (instead of a water bath) to create the SVHP.
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/thr...-experimental-thread.69718/page-2#post-696751

In recent times, I've taken to using steam when I'm in a hurry to run a test (a wooden bamboo steamer over a pot of gently boiling water works perfectly), but I still use my original immersion idea for larger batches.

@Alfa_Lazcares Try it - it is amazing!
If you already have a crockpot, you can see that NsMar42111 uses that to create the water bath instead:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/thr...ide-hp-soap-swirling.69725/page-6#post-698740


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## Meena (Jan 6, 2019)

dibbles said:


> You are probably thinking of sodium lactate. It will help with initial hardening so the soap can be unmolded sooner, but I'm not sure it makes the soap last longer. You may have read that here.



Yes, dibbles, that's where i saw it!  The article said it also makes soap last longer, but since it's derived from corn and beets, I'd have to find a non-GMO source for it -- not very likely, I'm assuming?


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## dibbles (Jan 6, 2019)

Meena said:


> Yes, dibbles, that's where i saw it!  The article said it also makes soap last longer, but since it's derived from corn and beets, I'd have to find a non-GMO source for it -- not very likely, I'm assuming?


I don't know. You could try using a little salt dissolved in the water before adding the lye as an alternative.


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## Callie (Jan 6, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> I will just add to that - My soaps haven't been in existence long enough to test 'stickability' of EOs but I was the adamant when I started that I would only ever use EOs. I could tell after a few weeks of curing that they weren't going to stick, so I started using a combination of FOs AND EOs together.  I feel more comfortable with that, than going wholly FO.  For example - when I made my Lime and Coconut bars, I used a lime and coconut FO, but I also used bergamot (which is an EO from citrus) and a touch of lemon EO.  In my somewhat loopy head that helps me feel better when trying to go for the 'no artificial additives' approach.


I think in a similar way to you. My love of citrus fragrance is starting to make me warm to FO.
If you are familiar with Lush soaps, it is very interesting to have a close look at the ingredients list in regard to the use of EO and fragrance together. They seem to reinforce the aroma of the EOs with fragrance chemicals to ensure a long lasting scent. They actually list the fragrance chemicals used which is helpful.


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## Alfa_Lazcares (Jan 7, 2019)

@DeeAnna i will do some more research in to it to try it. Thank you! 

@SaltedFig i still dont have a crockpot and since my batches are also on the small side i can make do with the pots i do have. I’ll check those threads. I am jist waiting for some more supplies to arrive since I’m almost out of lye... thank you!


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## Callie (Jan 7, 2019)

Hi. I have only been making soap for a few weeks now, but all of the practical chemistry and the learning curve has really drawn me in. I have been experimenting with all methods!
I was initially worried about loosing my fragrance (especially as I love citrus, which is fragile) to the chemical reactions in the cold process method, so I started with HP so I could add  the fragrance to a gentler environment (apart from the heat).

I have discussed my initial experiences with each method below. They are all really interesting in how they work and have their pros and cons. I think that I really like CPOP at the moment because you get pretty soap quickly

The first batch I made was a HP ( in my $20 KMart crockpot). I used Olive (60%), Coconut (30%), Sunflower (5%) and Almond (5%) oils with water and lye as per the Brambleberry calculator, and addex ground oats, honey and Lavender EO at the end. It turned out beautifully, although I think a bit more EO added at a lower temperafure (if possible) could have improved things. I think need to look into the smooth hot process methods so I can let the mixture cool more prior to the addition of fragrance without it turning solid.

My second go was a CP two layered recipie including yogurt and Lemongrass in the whole batch and then adding activated charcoal to one half and turmeric to the other. I was too heavy handed with both additives, but at least the bar has a scrubby texture. I oven processed this batch, and am sure that despite mt best efforts my oven was a bit hot (the turmeric on top strarted to sizzle and crust). The lemongrass EO did mostly vapourize out (as I had feared) but still ended up with a very earthy scrubby soap.

I had much better success that other day doing a CPOP in my dehydrator which has a digital temperature control by degree between 35 and 70 degrees celcius. The recipie was 50% Olive, 25% Coconut, 10% Sunflower, 10% Shea and 5% Castor. The EOs used were an equal blend of Peppermint, Eucalyptus, Lavender and Rosemary to a moderate level according to the Brambleberry Fragrance Calculator. I poured into a capped 80mm PVC pipe and put it in my dehydrating oven at 45 degrees Celsius for an hour to force saponification. I noted that the soap got to about 65 degrees Celsius. It was gelled evenly and the fragrance is nice and strong. I think that blend of For is pretty hardy as well.

My next experiment will be with natural homemade melt and pour in both opaque and translucent forms. My logic here is that I can let the soap cool to a much lower temperature before adding my EO so the fragrance will come up better. 

Does anyone have any further thoughts?


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## gloopygloop (Jan 7, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Not to say a crock pot isn't  helpful, but I don't use one for HP soaping. I work direct on the stove burner, watched very carefully, or in a warm water bath (bain marie). But I  also don't  cook the soap for hours, like some do ... I'm  sure a crock pot would be a big help in that case.



I do exactly the same, Yes I originally way back cooked the hell out of it, I crock potted it, I oven baked it but in the end I found gentle is best as with LS.


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## IrishLass (Jan 7, 2019)

I cook mine in the oven in a covered stainless soup pot. I set my oven temp to 180F. I like using the oven because of the evenness of the heat. Works great for me.


IrishLass


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## gloopygloop (Jan 8, 2019)

I did do that way to for many years  and it was good but these days I do as DeeAnna does and find I can keep and eye on it and control it more especially with fluidity in mind


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## Meena (Jan 9, 2019)

Thank you all so much!  I am going to start with CP but definitely try HP -- maybe after I have a few CP batches under my belt.  I am learning so much from you all, and I really appreciate you!


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