# How to prvent stearic acid spots in soap ? Alternative to?



## vjbakke (Oct 13, 2011)

I have a few batches that have palm oil in them that have white small white spots specked throughout the bar. I have found that they are stearic acid spots. Are they caused by the oil not being hot or warm enough? The palm oil. I use spectrum organic shorting. Ingredients are pressed palm oil. I usually mix when oil is 100-115 degrees. Also how do you prevent this from happening with milk soaps when you need the temp lower. I just wrap my mold up, would putting it in a warm oven help? Thank

Also what would a good alternative to palm oil be ? I will add that I won't use lard or Crisco, we don't use any soy in our house. We also avoid corn as well.


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## soapbuddy (Oct 13, 2011)

I would melt all of your palm oil and keep stirring as it cools. Then measure it for your soap batch.  I normally soap at 110 degrees, but I don't use palm oil.


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## IrishLass (Oct 13, 2011)

I've found that soaping warmer helps (120 to 125 degreesF). I use the same temp for my milk soaps, too, when soaped in my higher stearic formulas (I use the split method- 50% water to mix the lye in, and 50%_ warm _milk mixed in with my warm oils).

IrishLass


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## vjbakke (Oct 13, 2011)

Thanks!  I will be trying these next time.


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## busymakinsoap! (Oct 13, 2011)

I ditched palm for that exact realson, and I am soooo glad I did.

I now have a whole lot of new 'issues', but not stearic :wink:


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## khermsen (Oct 13, 2011)

I have used up the last of the palm oil, still have palm kernel left.  When the last of it is gone, I won't be replacing it for the same reason stated above.


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## vjbakke (Oct 13, 2011)

What oil is a good replacement for palm oil? I would prefer to formulate my recipes without it but haven't mastered how to yet.


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## Stinkydancer (Oct 13, 2011)

Tallow or Lard are good sub's for Palm. 

I was having a stearic problem but never with Spectrum (very expensive) but I love using it.
You might try soaping hotter. (edited)

When are you cutting? I thought I had stearic spots but I realized it was air bubbles from my wire cutter. So that might be something to consider before you kill Palm. In my slab mold- I never have spots and use Palm.


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## nattynoo (Oct 13, 2011)

I soap a bit hotter lately to avoid the stearic prob. Also I make sure I really stir all my oils together before I add the lye. I found this to help tremendously.


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## vjbakke (Oct 13, 2011)

I don't use lard. The spectrum is the cheapest and easiest for me to get. They are not air bubbles. I made a chocolate soap and you can really see them with that one. I will try hotter oils and melting all the palm oil before giving it up


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## Stinkydancer (Oct 13, 2011)

Sheesh- where do you get Spectrum cheap? I love the stuff but it's a fortune here. 

Are you using a wire cutter to cut the soap or a blade?


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## vjbakke (Oct 13, 2011)

I use a blade cutter.  I get the spectrum for $ 5.95 from Azure.


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## judymoody (Oct 13, 2011)

I'm curious, why do you object to Crisco if you are willing to use palm?  It's just hydrogenated palm and soy oils, at least the variety sold in my region is.  Is it due to GMO concerns?


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## Stinkydancer (Oct 13, 2011)

vjbakke said:
			
		

> I use a blade cutter.  I get the spectrum for $ 5.95 from Azure.



Well yep- that's stearic. Soap hotter that should help. 

5.95 is pretty cheap- it's 8.95 here which is why I only get it if I'm in a pinch. It soaps nicely though.


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## dOttY (Oct 14, 2011)

I was having this problem too.  I reformulated my recipe and *knock on wood*, I've not had stearic spots since.  

I found soaping  hotter didn't work for me....

Best of luck.  I know how disappointing it is when you slice your soap and there they are!


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## vjbakke (Oct 14, 2011)

dOttY said:
			
		

> I was having this problem too.  I reformulated my recipe and *knock on wood*, I've not had stearic spots since.
> 
> I found soaping  hotter didn't work for me....
> 
> Best of luck.  I know how disappointing it is when you slice your soap and there they are!



What ways did you reformulate your recipes?

 And yes it is a GMO and soy issue with the crisco. We don't buy food made by that company sorry.


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## carebear (Oct 14, 2011)

vjbakke said:
			
		

> What ways did you reformulate your recipes?
> 
> And yes it is a GMO and soy issue with the crisco. We don't buy food made by that company sorry.



must make shopping challenging.  crisco is part of smuckers, and smuckers owns tons: http://www.smuckers.com/family_company/ ... fault.aspx


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## vjbakke (Oct 14, 2011)

carebear said:
			
		

> vjbakke said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 We make a lot of our own food ( bread, jam, soup etc ) I can say that we very rarely will buy anything from that  list of brands.

Now back to soap Anyone have a good way to reformulate the recipes? Less palm oil more of another oil?


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## trishwosere (Oct 14, 2011)

IrishLass said:
			
		

> I've found that soaping warmer helps (120 to 125 degreesF). I use the same temp for my milk soaps, too, when soaped in my higher stearic formulas (I use the split method- 50% water to mix the lye in, and 50%_ warm _milk mixed in with my warm oils).
> 
> IrishLass



Forgive the intrusion to your thread but, can you tell me please Irishlass why you like your milk added warm and some other people advocate freezing their milk? I find this quite confusing and would like to make milk soap with fresh milk instead of powdered but am a little wary of doing so.


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## tinglingclean (Oct 22, 2011)

*laundry soap*

I made the laundry from the recipe on this forum, the one with the lard,lye washing soda, borax. hot and cold water
I have whisked this for two days, and the lard is  still floating on the top.
It said it would set up in three days, but so far, there isn't any sign of it mixing together.
Is there a way I can add more lye to help the lard saponsifiy and not waste my product?  I added the amount in the recipe, but didn't run it through the calculator, so am wondering if that could be the problem.
Has anyone else had this problem?  I would appreciate any help.
Thanks[/i]


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## bhelen (Jan 29, 2015)

IrishLass said:


> I've found that soaping warmer helps (120 to 125 degreesF). I use the same temp for my milk soaps, too, when soaped in my higher stearic formulas (I use the split method- 50% water to mix the lye in, and 50%_ warm _milk mixed in with my warm oils).
> 
> IrishLass



Lol IrishLass, I just found this. Warm milk?! Maybe that's why my soap is getting grainy with the split method plus powder....milk powder not dissolving fully because the milk is cold? I never thought of warming the milk. Doh.


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## Rune (Aug 10, 2017)

I've learned a lot by reading this thread, but still am very confused. That's why I didn't make soap two days ago, I could not find out how to make a soap with notorius ingredients like milk, honey and stearin without making a disaster (as I did the last time I tried). I might just make another type of soap than oatmeal, milk and honey.

But I wonder one thing. What about using the stearic acid, stearin or palm to make a lotion first, and then add the lotion to the soap? Would that work? Would that solve any problems? And most important of all, would a soft lotion harden the bars of soap?

I came to think about a lotion, because that is smooth, and a colder soaping temperature should be possible without specs of stearic acid floating around maybe?

I'm totally confused what to do. Soap hotter so to melt the stearin or stearic acid or palm, add milk that easily gets burned in no-time and honey that heats up everything even more, what will happen then? I'm seeing a disaster coming...

Maybe do hot process without anything added but oils and lye, and then add everything after the cook, when the soap has cooled down a bit? But I have read that you can get DOS that way because of "untreated, raw" milk, or something like that.

Or what about soaping relatively cold, with milk and all, apart from the stearic acid containing fats, and stop blending at light trace. Then melt the stearic acid, palm or whatever in the microwave to melt. And pour some of the soap over in another container, like when you mix in colours. Maybe heat it a little bit in the microwave as well, not to shock the stearic acid too much, and to make the stearic acid not to freeze and make instant soap on a stick. Dump the stick blender in there and blend like crazy while pouring the hot stearic acid in slowly, until very well combined. It will most likely be a thick trace (or soap on a stick in the worst case). And some more thin traced soap can be added, well blended to even it out, and add it all back to the main batch of soap, and blend to the trace you want. Will such a method work? The idea I had was that stearic acid will be easier evenly blended in some soap that way, and soap-blended stearic acid will easier blend with just soap afterwards. And just a small portion of the milk will maybe be overheated and caramellized, not the whole batch. But who knows if it will work that way.

Something I think is important, is the freezing point of oils. But that are hard to find. I saw a youtube video. It was a short and not good video. But it was something important there. And that is that melting point and freezing point are not the same. They said stearic acid will melt at let's say 70 celsius. But it will not go back to solid again before 50 celsius. It was something around there, I don't remember. It was some science experiment video. And I think that is very true. So if you soap at a lower temperature than an oil's freezing point, it may be specs of "frozen" oils floating around in the soap.

Melting point is easy to find, freezing point almost impossible, but at least just as important.


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## toxikon (Aug 10, 2017)

Rune said:


> I've learned a lot by reading this thread, but still am very confused. That's why I didn't make soap two days ago, I could not find out how to make a soap with notorius ingredients like milk, honey and stearin without making a disaster (as I did the last time I tried). I might just make another type of soap than oatmeal, milk and honey.
> 
> But I wonder one thing. What about using the stearic acid, stearin or palm to make a lotion first, and then add the lotion to the soap? Would that work? Would that solve any problems? And most important of all, would a soft lotion harden the bars of soap?
> 
> ...



There are a few ways of painlessly including milks in your CP recipes. I wouldn't recommend using stearic acid with CP, but palm should pose no problem.

1. Powdered milks. Other folks around the forum have said they don't notice a difference between powdered vs. liquid milks when it comes to the finished bar - both perform nicely. Powdered milk can be added right to the melted oils or at trace - it's very easy!

2. Split lye method. Make a strong 50% lye solution with water, while holding back additional liquid milk to add at trace. It's easy to figure out the numbers you need with a lye calculator. 

Whatever you do, it's best to prevent gel in milk soaps. So just pop your soap into the fridge or freezer when you're done pouring and leave it alone for at least 24 hours before you take it out.


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## penelopejane (Aug 10, 2017)

Rune,
You should copy and paste your question into a new thread rather than tack it onto a six year old thread that might have outdated information in it. 

You will get a lot more replies and helpful advice if you do.


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## Rune (Aug 12, 2017)

penelopejane said:


> Rune,
> You should copy and paste your question into a new thread rather than tack it onto a six year old thread that might have outdated information in it.
> 
> You will get a lot more replies and helpful advice if you do.



Yes, you're absolutely right. I will do the next time. I got some advice here, so I will just do something and see what happens. Maybe it will work out just fine in the end. If not, then I desperately need some more advice


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## penelopejane (Aug 12, 2017)

Deleted.


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## Rune (Aug 12, 2017)

toxikon said:


> There are a few ways of painlessly including milks in your CP recipes. I wouldn't recommend using stearic acid with CP, but palm should pose no problem.
> 
> 1. Powdered milks. Other folks around the forum have said they don't notice a difference between powdered vs. liquid milks when it comes to the finished bar - both perform nicely. Powdered milk can be added right to the melted oils or at trace - it's very easy!
> 
> ...



I actually intended to use powdered milk, that is what I have bought, and I bought it to be able to get an amount equal to a whole liter of milk in there, by mixing it stronger. And it is stearin I have, not stearic acid. I guess I wrote stearic acid, I mess a lot with the two. Stearin will split into stearic and palmitic acid, if I remember exactly what DeeAnna said (but I'm sure I remembered her name totally wrong  ) But, just very few minutes ago, while googling the candle I have to find out more (yes I know, candle, not skin safe, but I will be the only user of this soap, and I take the chance. And I will buy skin safe stearin or stearic acid. A candle is just an emergency solution), I discovered that the candle I have, which is "Svanemerket", meaning Swan-marked, which it is a high standard for products based on consumer safety + environmental safety and sustainable. One of the criterias is that it can not contain any palm. So, the 100% stearin candle, without fragrance, color or nothing, is stearin from an unknown oil or fat. I have no idea other than it is not palm stearin. And then I can't know the saponification value. But I will superfat at least 10%, so I don't think it matters, since there is a safety buffer there already. If I could find palm oil somewhere, I would use that and not a candle. I will search for palm oil or palm alternatives locally and see what I can find. 

Milk powder at trace, that sounds like a very good solution! Thank you. Yes, prevent gel, I guess that is the only way. I was thinking of using a 48% lye and 52% water (not 50/50 because I wanted a small buffer zone). And I hope to use only that, no other added water. That should prevent partial gel and prevent gel in general since less water means that it will gel at a higher temperature. I actually want little water and full gel. But that is not possible with milk. It will be like coffee instead of milk.

But I saw a lady in Australia making a Youtube video where she made a so called ghost swirl in a milk soap. She divided the batch in three, and had different lye concentrations in each. It did gel, but the parts with the highest water content did get much darker. That is the ghost swirl, making a swirl without any colorants, just swirled by water content (in case you did not already know). So I thought a maximum water reduction can help the milk soap to stay whiter. 

I have seen on Youtube that putting soaps in fridge or freezer ends up with partial gel almost always. I guess I have seen the worst videos. I think that will happen when using full water, which gels a lot easier and at lower temperatures. I had not intended to put the soap in the fridge. But I will do as you suggested and actually keep it cold. Plus use water reduction to prevent partial gel. In theory, that should work great.

I wonder if also adding the honey at trace instead of in the beginning could keep the soap from overheating too much? I think, it is in the soap for a shorter time. And when it eventually gets in the soap, it will soon end up in the fridge anyway. So that might be helpful instead of adding honey to the oils.


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## DeeAnna (Aug 12, 2017)

Stearin is a FAT. Stearic acid is a FATTY ACID. They are not at all the same. 

"... Stearin will split into stearic and palmitic acid..."

Not really. Stearin would need to be broken down into its fatty acids and glycerin, and then the fatty acids could be separated from the glycerin and from each other. Stearin has a relatively high amount of oleic acid as well as stearic acid and palmitic acid, so it's not just fat that is only made from stearic and palmitic acids.

Commercial stearic acid is actually a blend of stearic acid and palmitic acid. It theoretically could be split into the two separate fatty acids, if need be, but it's not typically done for the commercial grade product.


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## uma Naik (Aug 1, 2020)

IrishLass said:


> I've found that soaping warmer helps (120 to 125 degreesF). I use the same temp for my milk soaps, too, when soaped in my higher stearic formulas (I use the split method- 50% water to mix the lye in, and 50%_ warm _milk mixed in with my warm oils).
> 
> IrishLass


Gr8 advice ..will follow this next time... wont soaking at high temperatures cause early trace ? Also now that I already have steric spots all over my soap (yes I used palm oil) is it good to go ? Or do I need to rebatch ? The soap is soft to touch after 2 days.


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## bookreader451 (Aug 1, 2020)

I have been using the no stir palm from WSP and I don't have issues with stearic spots. I usually soap between 80-100 degrees. I love not having to melt and stir.


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## IrishLass (Aug 1, 2020)

uma Naik said:


> Gr8 advice ..will follow this next time... wont soaking at high temperatures cause early trace ? Also now that I already have steric spots all over my soap (yes I used palm oil) is it good to go ? Or do I need to rebatch ? The soap is soft to touch after 2 days.



I've found  that early trace when soaping warm really depends a lot on the formula and /or the fragrance oil, and/or how often you use the stickblender.  For example, if I make a batch of my standard lard/tallow formula with a 33% lye concentration and a well behaved fragrance oil such as the Scent Work's Blue Sugar, and only use a whisk or spatula to hand-stir, it can take as long as up to an hour to come to trace, even if soaped very warm. However, if I stick-blended it instead, it would take 10 minutes to come to trace. I found that out when making a very complicated double pencil-line swirl with that FO. It took me an hour to execute the swirl and my soap stayed fluid and workable that whole time as long as I only hand-stirred.


IrishLass


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