# Have you made cp soaps with sesame oil?



## jin (Mar 17, 2015)

I'm going to make cp soaps with sesame oil. (Life Flo Health, Pure Sesame Oil) 
How was it? What is the saponification value of sesame oil?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Mar 17, 2015)

I didn't realise that it wasn't in the online lye calculators - I thought it was but then I have never really looked for it.  Very odd.

If you don't know what the soap is likely to be like, what is it that is making you want to use it?


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## AnotherBozo (Mar 17, 2015)

Is there a feasible experimental way to determine a SAP number? I've read a decent amount of soaping information but I can't say I've ever read anything about finding SAP number when you don't know (or maybe when you don't know the exact type or blend of oil).

Back in the day before we all had balances with fractional gram accuracy and detailed tables, they still made a lot of soap. Is there any old-school wisdom that may apply here (with suitable 21st century tweaks)?

ETA: toasted sesame oil smells awesome--that would make me want a bar.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Mar 17, 2015)

Back in the day they used to then put the batter in a brine solution and scrape the soap curds off the top, sans excess lye but also sans superfat and glycerine - making it less than lovely soap.

For blends, I look at the mix of oils, or work it out by comparing the nutritional information, particularly the saturation to unsaturation fat ratio, to work out what mix of the oils would give that particular ratio.

As for SAP value, I think (wait for a real science soaper to confirm or correct) that is would work to look at how many molecules are in a gram of the oil to see how many molecules of lye you need for that.


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## DeeAnna (Mar 17, 2015)

Cold processed or hot processed soap was often lye heavy in the "old days" before saponification values were in wide use by handcrafted soapmakers, so the "old wisdom" is not really useful. If you are referring to the alternate method of boiled-and-salted soapmaking, that's another whole story. I don't recommend this method for newcomers to soaping.

Look at the online soap recipe calculators for -- have you ever checked them out? Sesame oil is most certainly on Soapcalc, Majestic Mountain Sage, Brambleberry, and Summerbeemeadow. You can get the sap value from any of these. If you plan to hand calculate your recipe, I suggest using a calc instead, whether on line or your own spreadsheet. Much less chance of error, much easier to tweak the recipe.

Toasted sesame is fine for cooking, but pungent to the point of being objectionable in a soap, lotion, or other bath and body product. Not-toasted sesame is okay as far as scent goes. Either version is very high in linoleic acid, so the any B&B product, including soap, will be prone to rancidity if you use sesame in a high % of your recipe.


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## AnotherBozo (Mar 17, 2015)

I'm just asking, so if there's not a way that's also cool.

But as to the prettiness, if you just dedicated a test batch to the determination of the SAP number, you could then do the rest in your preferred process.

Someone somewhere determined the SAP numbers we use (and I know there's a sort of a consensus value although references differ).

BTW soapcalc.net says 0.134 for sesame oil so maybe this is academic. I'm still interested in the idea though.

ETA: I hadn't read DeAnna's answer before I submitted my post. I'm still curious if I get some unicorn oil or whatever how to figure a SAP value experimentally. Or if people even do that.


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## DeeAnna (Mar 17, 2015)

You don't have to determine sap value by experiment -- you can calculate an ideal sap value for a pure fat, if you know the average molecular weight of the fat.

Three fatty acids per fat molecule + three NaOH => three sodium soap molecules. The NaOH sap value is the grams of NaOH required to fully saponify 1 gram of fat.

Three fatty acids per fat molecule + three KOH => three potassium soap molecules. The KOH sap value is the grams of KOH required to fully saponify 1 gram of fat.

That said, determination of sap value is not going to be easy by just doing a saponification experiment. You need to accurately know the excess alkalinity in the finished soap. That requires a separate titration of the soap solution with an acid.

Note: The long-standing convention for sap values is to provide KOH sap values, not NaOH. If you ever see a list of saponification values that are not clearly marked as NaOH sap values, they are probably based on KOH. Doublecheck by comparing a sap values you know with those in the list just to make sure. 

People who don't know the conventional way of stating sap values as based on KOH may not realize this and state NaOH sap values without being clear the values are based on NaOH. When I write about sap values, I do my best to spell it all out so there's no cause for confusion.

Convert KOH sap values to NaOH sap values with this formula:

NaOH sap value = (KOH sap value) / 1.403


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## AnotherBozo (Mar 17, 2015)

Thx  DeeAnna. Sorry about shortchanging you an "e" above.


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## DeeAnna (Mar 17, 2015)

No problem, AB -- my parents got a little carried away....


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## xoticsoaps (Mar 17, 2015)

TheSage.com calculator includes sesame oil.

oops. I just read Deanna's post. Lots of good info.


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## jnl (Mar 17, 2015)

sesame oil has a VERY short shelf life
its the only oil i have ever had go rancid on me
and that was even stored in the fridge
thats why for cooking i only buy the teeny tiny bottles that take me about 6 months or less to use up

if u want to put it in soap, i would suggest adding vitamin e and ROE to it


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