# Coffee EO



## KoffeeKat

Has anyone got experience with Coffee EO? I'm after an espresso smell without using FO.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

As far as I'm aware, there is no such thing as a coffee eo I'm afraid to say


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## kchaystack

Oh it exists.  

http://www.newdirectionsaromatics.com/coffee-essential-oil-p-223.html

But it is very very dear stuff.  I have never used it.


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## newbie

Yikes! At that price, I'd be reluctant to use it in soap. Are you looking to use it in other leave-on products, Koffeekat?


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## snappyllama

Wow, that's unexpectedly spendy. It seems like coffee EO shouldn't cost that much.


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## KoffeeKat

CP soap I:m afraid.

You can see why I hesitate to buy it. Admittedly I've seen it cheaper elsewhere but not much.

Some places indicated it will give aroma in soap but I suspect they are strategically omitting that it is M&P not CP.

As you can see from my user name- I don't have any issues with coffee.


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## TVivian

I think if you infuse your oils  in lots of fresh ground coffee, plus add a bit of finely ground to the mix ... You may get a bit of coffee scent left in there after cure. 

::Quietly whispering in your ear::.. If you decide to try an FO, brambleberry espresso is awesome.


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## newbie

I'm afraid I have to second BB's Espresso. Nice coffee scent without the crazy cost. Or perhaps, if you were going to try the EO, blend it with this FO to decrease your overall cost?

A good coffee FO is difficult to find. Some of them are dreadful.


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## KoffeeKat

TVivian said:


> I think if you infuse your oils  in lots of fresh ground coffee, plus add a bit of finely ground to the mix ... You may get a bit of coffee scent left in there after cure.
> 
> ::Quietly whispering in your ear::.. If you decide to try an FO, brambleberry espresso is awesome.



I spent a day experimenting with coffee/oil/water infusions this week. Even with grounds there really isn't much aroma left in any of them.

I'm trying to avoid FOs because I and a friend have multiple chemical sensitivities and I try to keep things as simple as possible. 

I might have to do more FO research and see if they will be OK for us.


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## FerrisWheel

I failed with a batch of coffee soap recently.

Used a very fine local coffee merchant and made a very strong java brew.

The resulting bars smelt like an ash tray.

Not good!


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## OliveOil2

I made a very strong coffee oil infused with strong coffee grounds, and let it infuse for a month. The finished soap had a slight coffee smell, that faded before cure was complete. I used the same oil to make a coffee scented scrub and the smell was amazing.


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## amd

I made a coffee bar using 2x brew strength. It just came off the cure rack with a light coffee fragrance my daughter thinks its chocolate.


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## boyago

I did a trifold infusion with coffee grounds CPed it.  The lye monster ate all of the coffee scent (which was VERY strong going in).  Was thinking about doing it again with HP and using the infused oil as a high SF anyone ever try something like this?


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## KoffeeKat

I've tried a range of things in my test.  Hopefully you can sort of read what is on each cake to get an idea but as a starting point I hot infused 1/2 cup(50g) fine grounds (left over from making espresso) in 2 cups of oil (500g), then did likewise with water.

Then I filtered (with a coffee filter), strained (one batch with a strainer and a second with a stocking) and diluted as noted on the cakes of soap. I also tried adding the infusion at light trace for oil and emulsion for water (wasn't sure how late I could go on that one). One half was forced to gel. The other (unlabelled) was prevented from gelling.

The test recipe was super simple - OO 65%, CcO 28%, CasO 7%, SF8% Water 38%. In case you are wondering why the SF and water were so high it was because I fancied it (SF) and so I had lots of coffee to play with (water).

I also tested a turkish mocha FO from BB to see how it would discolour/accelerate.

RESULTS: 

Coffee infused OO seemed to accelerate trace slightly. Water did not.
Turkish Mocha does discolour but didn't seem to accelerate trace in this recipe.
The only soap with any fragrance remaining is the Turkish Mocha (which is sweet and warm but not what I was after at all.)


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

KoffeeKat said:


> Has anyone got experience with Coffee EO? I'm after an espresso smell without using FO.



 Did you ever try the coffee eo in CP soap? I'm wanting to try it with a small % to help with costs. Hoping that a small amount will stretch the purchase out and will still give a nice scent.


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## KoffeeKat

Hi Alli, 

If I had ordered it the day I posted the first question I still wouldn't have it. LOL.  I'm in country Western Australia and WA stands for wait awhile. 

I'm not sure if it has been available for a long time or not. I hadn't seen it until I really went looking a few weeks ago  and I'm not sure if it is 'newish' or just too expensive for anywhere in West Australia to bother stocking.

I will wait a bit longer and see if anyone else has any information on it.


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## rparrny

Just putting my two cents in...
I'm making some coffee soap for my coffee addicted sister.  When I asked her if she would want it to smell like coffee she said "Hell no, I may love coffee but I don't want to smell like it, in fact if I spill it on myself it drives me nuts that I have the smell on me".
I was surprised, but she still wanted coffee soap...just not with the smell.  She's opting for peppermint instead to help wake her up.
For those that love flavored coffees maybe concentrating on the "flavor" for aroma would be a better idea.  Hazelnut? Vanilla? Chocolate?


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## TVivian

rparrny said:


> Just putting my two cents in...
> I'm making some coffee soap for my coffee addicted sister.  When I asked her if she would want it to smell like coffee she said "Hell no, I may love coffee but I don't want to smell like it, in fact if I spill it on myself it drives me nuts that I have the smell on me".
> I was surprised, but she still wanted coffee soap...just not with the smell.  She's opting for peppermint instead to help wake her up.
> For those that love flavored coffees maybe concentrating on the "flavor" for aroma would be a better idea.  Hazelnut? Vanilla? Chocolate?





When I make my coffee soap, I use my espresso FO in a blend with cinnamon and vanilla. Even though those are all very "foody" smells  (which I don't care for in a scent that lingers on my skin) it still smells very soapy. The nice thing about soap is that you get to enjoy the scent while in the shower, but it usually doesn't stick to the skin for long. I hate the scent of spilled coffee on my shirt too! Coffee lotion or perfume, I'd give it a big "hell no" as well ha!


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

rparrny said:


> Just putting my two cents in...
> I'm making some coffee soap for my coffee addicted sister.  When I asked her if she would want it to smell like coffee she said "Hell no, I may love coffee but I don't want to smell like it, in fact if I spill it on myself it drives me nuts that I have the smell on me".
> I was surprised, but she still wanted coffee soap...just not with the smell.  She's opting for peppermint instead to help wake her up.
> For those that love flavored coffees maybe concentrating on the "flavor" for aroma would be a better idea.  Hazelnut? Vanilla? Chocolate?



Good idea!


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

I just found it even cheaper at 

Newdirectionsaromatics.com


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## KoffeeKat

rparrny said:


> Just putting my two cents in...
> I'm making some coffee soap for my coffee addicted sister.  When I asked her if she would want it to smell like coffee she said "Hell no, I may love coffee but I don't want to smell like it, in fact if I spill it on myself it drives me nuts that I have the smell on me".
> I was surprised, but she still wanted coffee soap...just not with the smell.  She's opting for peppermint instead to help wake her up.
> For those that love flavored coffees maybe concentrating on the "flavor" for aroma would be a better idea.  Hazelnut? Vanilla? Chocolate?



I was thinking of something robust, not sweet and maybe with some Orange oil so it would be a good deodouriser and wake up soap.

With that combination of scents I may have to try a HP so I can add it late and try to get it to stick.  

All good fun - and it does keep us off the streets and kind of out of trouble. :shifty:


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## Spice

rparrny said:


> Just putting my two cents in...
> I'm making some coffee soap for my coffee addicted sister.  When I asked her if she would want it to smell like coffee she said "Hell no, I may love coffee but I don't want to smell like it, in fact if I spill it on myself it drives me nuts that I have the smell on me".
> I was surprised, but she still wanted coffee soap...just not with the smell.  She's opting for peppermint instead to help wake her up.
> For those that love flavored coffees maybe concentrating on the "flavor" for aroma would be a better idea.  Hazelnut? Vanilla? Chocolate?



That's a good point! I love scampi, but do I want to smell like it? I love the smell of fresh grind coffee, I am just now wondering if I want to smell like it, and...........how would the scent be because people have different body oils that change the chem of things.Would I smell like that burn coffee that's been on the hot plate for 8 hrs?


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## vmakkers

I made a coffee sugar scrub with some vanilla coffee grounds and I smelled like a frappucino for the first half of the day. I don't know how I feel about that. I mean I love the smell of coffee but smelling like a frappe was a bit weird. I've used caramel coffee from Nurture and it ends up curing to a creamy vanilla, light caramel, less on the coffee. I really like it. I'm hoping their reformulation will be just as good.


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

I think the coffee scent would definitely stick in a lotion or scrub. But with soap it should be more is an aromatherapy experience than an all day scent. I ended up ordering some coffee eo and will be trying it soon in cp soap. I'll update you all!


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## TeaLeavesandTweed

vmakkers said:


> I made a coffee sugar scrub with some vanilla coffee grounds and I smelled like a frappucino for the first half of the day. I don't know how I feel about that.



This kind of cracked me up.

Also, I think old coffee grounds smell a bit like cigarette smoke. Boyfriend left his coffee grounds out one day that I was working from home and I came down in the middle of the day and freaked out because I smelled cigarette smoke and thought someone had broken in to our basement. Just a thought as to how coffee EO might morph during saponification.


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## Spice

TeaLeavesandTweed said:


> This kind of cracked me up.
> 
> Also, I think old coffee grounds smell a bit like cigarette smoke. Boyfriend left his coffee grounds out one day that I was working from home and I came down in the middle of the day and freaked out because I smelled cigarette smoke and thought someone had broken in to our basement. Just a thought as to how coffee EO might morph during saponification.



That is good to know. I have not made soap in awhile and Iam trying to get my ducks in a row. What I mean by not making soap in awhile, I mean I have been stuck on the same style and am ready to try something new.


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## KoffeeKat

TeaLeavesandTweed said:


> Also, I think old coffee grounds smell a bit like cigarette smoke... Just a thought as to how coffee EO might morph during saponification.


 
Used grounds certainly do.  

I should report that one of my tests had a slight coffee scent for a little while. I must have missed it in my first round of sniff tests and it is already gone now. It was from one of the infused oil batches and fortunately it didn't smell like cigarette smoke.:smile:

I tried using fresh ones that had been skimmed before I pour my shot - recycling the little bits that fall off each time.

Since my grounds take a while to collect, I'm thinking I should grind some up just to experiment with and start infusing them straight away. Also do a triple infusion like one of the guys on here suggested and leave it for longer before I use it.

Then use a  coffee ground tea (it is just wrong to say 'tea' when referring to coffee) for colour.

Hanging out to hear what results come from the EO.

No matter what, the time isn't wasted (and neither is the soap). I'm learning and I know someone else will come along and read this thread and maybe help them too.


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

My coffee eo should arrive tomorrow!! I can't wait!


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## KoffeeKat

HappyHomeSoapCo said:


> My coffee eo should arrive tomorrow!! I can't wait!



Any news yet Alli?


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

I haven't made it yet! Hopefully this week!


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## KoffeeKat

Sounds like you have similar planning issues to me. There is always something else taking precedence over what I want to do.:sad:


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## rparrny

Okay, so I made my coffee soap...I used very strong coffee and wasn't happy with the color so I added a tsp of espresso powder to really darken it up...this is what I was hoping for...


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## rparrny

This is what I got...


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## rparrny

I unmolded early knowing it was a dud which is why it's not so crisp.  Reminded me of puffed wheat I used to eat as a kid.  Wondering if next time I should use my black oxide or coco powder to color it.  My sister isn't a chocolate fan...(I know she's very weird) so I don't know if it will give off a chocolate scent...
Any suggestions?


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## KristaMarie

Cocoa powder won't leave a scent, but also won't be as dark as your first picture. I'd add the tiniest bit of your black oxide to the cocoa, to darken it up.


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## kumudini

My soaps from my strong cold brew thread also lightened up a bit initially but then went back to their dark color. I had posted a not so attractive pic in that thread. These are the same soaps, prettied up a bit, but mind you, my coffee must be the strongest brew out here. Need to make a loaf of this soap yet.


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## not_ally

K, those are *perfect* looking coffee soaps.


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## KoffeeKat

rparrny said:


> I unmolded early knowing it was a dud which is why it's not so crisp.  Reminded me of puffed wheat I used to eat as a kid.  Wondering if next time I should use my black oxide or coco powder to color it.  My sister isn't a chocolate fan...(I know she's very weird) so I don't know if it will give off a chocolate scent...
> Any suggestions?



From the tests I did the darkest colour comes from pouring boiling water over fresh coffee grounds.  I poured 2 cups boiling water over 1/2 cup fine (espresso) grounds for a couple of hours then filtered through a coffee filter as I didn't want any grit. You might get more colour if you boiled it for longer, percolated it or even evaporated off some of the water after filtering.

I used 38% water/w oil so I could incorporate the maximum amount of colour and finally, the soap had to gel.

After all of that, a month later the colour is less black brown like espresso and more dark brown sugar. This photo is on white paper with a couple of beans on top for reference.


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

Vanilla eo makes a really good dark/chocolate brown.


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## rparrny

I'm not sure if she will like a vanilla fragrance_.  _I'll try grinding my coffee to a powder and adding cocoa to it and see if I get the results I'm looking for.


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

So I am FINALLY making my coffee soap today. My lye solution is cooled and my oils are cool. I've added my coffee eo to the oils but the scent disappeared! I bought a 16oz bottle of Brazil Coffee eo from New Directions Aromatics. It was $138 delivered. So by only using 3oz eo in my 8lb batch of soap i am keeping my cost down. I was hoping that the scent, even if it is light, would still have enough coffee scent. I used 20oz of water to dissolve the lye and added 20oz strong cold brew coffee after the lye cooled. I'm sooo dissapointed! I've never had an essential oil disappear on me in the warm oils!! I would hate to make the soap for it to turn out UNSCENTED!!!!  In order to give it some scent I'm thinking of adding benzoin(vanilla) to give it something yummy.


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## kumudini

My coffee bar was scented with 0.5oz ppo of a coffee FO and it smells quite nice, but EOs take much higher usage rate to scent a batch and stick. I use most EOs at 0.7 to 1.0oz ppo, individual or as a blend. You might just need to up your EO amount and yes it's going to cost even more.


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

Thanks for the feedback kumudini. Thats what i was afraid of initially.


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## dixiedragon

You may want to consider HP. It uses less scent.


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## kumudini

dixiedragon said:


> You may want to consider HP. It uses less scent.



But as HSC already mixed the EO with oils it would be counter productive to go the HP route now, wouldn't it? I'm sure you missed that point in that post, but just wanted to make sure HSC knows this and doesn't go burning off that precious EO in HP.


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## dixiedragon

kumudini said:


> But as HSC already mixed the EO with oils it would be counter productive to go the HP route now, wouldn't it? I'm sure you missed that point in that post, but just wanted to make sure HSC knows this and doesn't go burning off that precious EO in HP.


 
Sorry, I didn't explain myself clearly. I meant if HSC wants to try this again, try making HP soap. You are right, HP (really a rebatch I suppose) would just burn off the coffee EO.


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

dixiedragon said:


> You may want to consider HP. It uses less scent.



I took this as "to try next time"


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

Well I'm going to go ahead and add a 4th ounce. I figure, some batches of soap are much much cheaper so if i can make an awesome coffee soap then it'll be worth it and even out!


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## kumudini

Are you opposed to using FOs? I might not use them for myself, at least not in the winter as I'm discovering that when compared to EO soaps, FO soap batches with same recipes otherwise are a bit drying to my skin. If you have no reservations about artificial fragrances, you will be able to get better results with an FO.


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

I have chosen the natural route for my business. It does make me get quite creative! Using all natural colorants/herbs and only essential oils to create my own scent blends. I never thought it would be possible to do coffee soap but the idea of giving it a try with a smaller ratio of usage was my hope.


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## houseofwool

I find if I use concentrated coffee as part of my liquid, I do get a faint coffee scent.


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

houseofwool said:


> I find if I use concentrated coffee as part of my liquid, I do get a faint coffee scent.



Yes i read that with people's experiences too. I used 50%of my water as concentrated cold brew coffee!


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

Light coffee eo = coffee ashtray....


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

I never did get the 4th oz of coffee eo added in, nor the benzoin. I think it would have helped. Even just adding the benzoin with the 3oz of coffee would have warmed up the scent. We'll see after the cure.


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

At least it looks good!! I think it actually will cure to a nice scent. Its a light coffee now with a faint ash to it. Im hoping the ash fades and not the coffee. Hahaa

Hmmmm.... It's not letting me upload a pic right now. I'll try again later


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

This is the color right after cut


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

This was the color within the hour of cutting


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

This is the color now, a few days later. The tops are a bit green!


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## dixiedragon

Pretty swirl! Maybe you can cheat a bit and top it with some coffee grounds or some whole beans.


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

dixiedragon said:


> Pretty swirl! Maybe you can cheat a bit and top it with some coffee grounds or some whole beans.



Good idea! Maybe I'll try pressing the top into a flat pan of grounds.


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## KoffeeKat

Thanks for posting this Alli.  Coffee EO is daunting.

Sounds like Coffee might be similar to one of my other absolute favourites, Orange EO - expensive and difficult to keep in :cry:

If I can source the EO, I think I will try a three pronged approach, coffee infused water, coffee infused oil and coffee EO at trace.

As you can tell from my user name, I don't have a problem saving coffee grounds.:mrgreen:


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

Good luck! I used cold brew concentrate for the liquid & the essential oil. I used 3oz in my 125oz/oil batch but wished i would have used 4oz. The soap, now fully cured smells like coffee with a hint of ash. But more of a scalded coffee ash rather than cigarette ashtray.


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

My next coffee batch will be with 4oz coffee eo & benzoin eo. Maybe a hint of nutmeg? Or peppermint? We'll see!


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## oilcrafter

I make a coffee extract using a alcohol vacuum extractor (Extractcraft). It will turn your head inside out- it is ~way~ too potent to taste. But it is perfect for making soap. Scented candles not so much, since it ends up smelling like burnt coffee. It is even better with a little mint in the soap, or almond extract.


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## Spice

FerrisWheel said:


> I failed with a batch of coffee soap recently.
> 
> Used a very fine local coffee merchant and made a very strong java brew.
> 
> The resulting bars smelt like an ash tray.
> 
> Not good!


Coffee is high with many acids and in particular one acid is common in vinegar. I wonder if that was a factor in your failed batch?

http://www.livestrong.com/article/434669-acids-found-in-coffee/


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## Spice

HappyHomeSoapCo said:


> Well I'm going to go ahead and add a 4th ounce. I figure, some batches of soap are much much cheaper so if i can make an awesome coffee soap then it'll be worth it and even out!


I wonder if a liquid soap would be better for the coffee eo?


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

oilcrafter said:


> I make a coffee extract using a alcohol vacuum extractor (Extractcraft). It will turn your head inside out- it is ~way~ too potent to taste. But it is perfect for making soap. Scented candles not so much, since it ends up smelling like burnt coffee. It is even better with a little mint in the soap, or almond extract.



Interesting! I'll look into it!


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## HappyHomeSoapCo

Spice said:


> I wonder if a liquid soap would be better for the coffee eo?



After a good long cure, i am happy with this coffee soap. And i ended up only using 3oz eo. Got busy with stiring and didnt measure out another ounce. This coffee soap smells great though! A teeny tiny hint of burnt coffee when smelling the dry bar, but when washing it smells like a cup of joe!


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## KoffeeKat

Sounds like I have Coffee EO in my future.


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## bluemoosesoap

My unscented coffee bar had a hint of a coffee scent from the strong coffee water and fine ground coffee.
It wasn't until i added vanilla FO to the recipe that sales jumped.


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