# Help please! Frustrated, Discouraged, but refusing to give up!



## McLasz (Sep 11, 2018)

AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just about gave up last night after I made my third batch of soap ever. However, this morning what I'm really hoping is that this is my beginner soaping story that I will be able to tell years from now about how when I started making soap it was a colossal failure, but I went right back to the soap kitchen and started again, and again, and again until it was exactly what I wanted! 
SO... rewinding to today, I have attached everything I used and my math in hopes that someone will be able to tell me where I went wrong. 
I was using a 50/50 lye/water solution and added the correct amount of extra water using the math that amd confirmed for me in another thread (learned it on soaping 101), and I measured my ingredients* to the drop. *
I added my lye water to my oils and stick blended in short bursts for less than a minute all together. I separated the batch into three containers, added my color and used a wisk to blend them in by hand, then used the same wisk to add and blend in my FO, and within minutes it turned into a brick- I couldn't do anything with it. SO DISCOURAGED!!!!! I refuse to give up though. Can someone weigh in on my problem? I thought that maybe my stick blender is too powerful for small batches? its over 800 watts- could that be it? My mold is small. 
Any thoughts or feedback or anything that anyone can offer will be so very appreciated- I will keep coming back until I get it right, but it would be helpful if I knew where I went wrong. 
THANK YOU ALL IN ADVANCE!!!


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## Lin19687 (Sep 11, 2018)

You already have this in the OTHER thread.


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## SaltedFig (Sep 11, 2018)

Two thoughts, looking at your soap and your extra text (with your answers to questions people have asked you in your original thread).

Your water might be a bit too low (of a lye concentration) for a soap made predominantly with olive pomace (40%) and coconut oil (30%). Both of these oils are known to saponify fairly quickly (chemically extracted olive pomace is reputed to saponify a lot faster than cold-processed olive oil, and coconut oil is always quick), so you would be better off with a little more water in your recipe (30%-33% lye concentration is sweet for just about all recipes - for this one I would suggest the lower end of the scale, as has already been suggested to you, to counteract the speed - 35.2% might be a bit too strong a lye concentration for this recipe and for you as a beginner soaper).

The main thought that occurred to me, in reading what you have written, is that you had that effect almost immediately following the addition of your fragrance oil, so it is possible that your FO has accelerated your recipe even further. I think that, as Lin has mentioned, this was covered in your first thread.

While you are learning, smaller batches, a little more water, and a fragrance oil that doesn't accelerate might go a long way to helping you get to the point where you have a successful soap. Once you have that, you can expand to the other ideas you are keen to incorporate.

Anyway, here is the original thread: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/steep-water-discount-questions.71378/

Good luck.


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## DeeAnna (Sep 11, 2018)

I looked at the NG fragrance oil that the OP used and it's listed as a non accelerator by the company and by reviewers, so the chance of it accelerating this batch is on the lower side. Not saying it won't accelerate, but just that it seems not as likely.

What really catches my eye in this particular thread is this --

_"I added my lye water to my oils and stick blended in short bursts for less than a minute all together...."
_
I read this sentence that you stick blended the batter for a _total _of 1 minute, roughly. Am I reading this correctly? And then you went on to portion out the batter, add color, and whisk?

If so, that is waaaaaaay too much stick blending time up front.

Try a total of 10 seconds of stick blending spread out over several minutes. No more than a total of 15 seconds. If you're going to split the batter and add color, you want your main batter to be at emulsion at the time you split the batter, not at trace. If the batter has reached the stage of visible trace, it's pretty likely the soap won't allow you nearly enough time to get your colors mixed and do a swirl.

After you get your portions split out and colored and you think the batter is too thin, _then _you can stick blend the bejezus out of it to rev things up.


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## cmzaha (Sep 11, 2018)

What Salted Fig says above. I soap with 30-33% Lye Concentration depending on my recipe, but only go higher with 100% single oils soaps such as OO, Canola, Sunflower.
What works for one soapmaker will many times not work for the average, especially a new soapmaker. I would also almost guarantee it was your FO which you did not list on your printout.

Word of advice use the note section of Soap Calc to write down your procedure, you can always find the inci which is only needed if you are non-US and selling. Do make smaller batches, 5-6 lbs of seized soap is a lot of soap. By taking good notes on your printout, which I save all of mine, you can look back and know what the FO did, how your Lye Solution percentage worked out, it you added in additives, milks, etc. Good notes are very critical for assessing problems

ETA: Since DeeAnna types faster than me  I will add that my vegan recipe can only take one short burst of the SB a couple of stirs and separate for colors, and it will still hit a thick trace immediately with an accelerating fo and at best give me a very few minutes to color and pour. It is one I only mix in one swirl color. Another hint with coloring, if you do not know how your batch is going to act it is better to work with one swirl color incase you have to re-batch, this way you will most like not end up with poopy looking colored soap


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## dixiedragon (Sep 11, 2018)

I agree with DeeAnne - I think you are probably stickblending too much. I also don't see a temperature anywhere - try soaping cooler. Palm oil has a melting point of 95 degrees. Try having  your oils at 100-105 and your lye at room temp.

Pre mix  your colors with a bit of oil, water or glycerin (I prefer glycerin). If you use oil, just dip a spoonful or so of melted oil out of your soap pot (before you add lye water), put it in a Dixie cup, and scramble it with a chopstick or a bamboo skewer. Get it all mixed and all of the lumps out.

Stick blend the oils + lye water JUST ENOUGH so that it is evenly mixed. Then pour them into your separate containers. Have a container of warm water near by. Add color and give each container a blast with the stick blender. Blast the stick blender in your container of warm water to avoid color transfer. Move between containers until the soap is slightly thinner than you think you want. Pour!


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## amd (Sep 11, 2018)

Temp is listed in the third pic: lye 80° and oils 95°.


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## DeeAnna (Sep 11, 2018)

_"...scramble it with a chopstick or a bamboo skewer..."_

Love your choice of words, @dixiedragon ! I'll have to remember that one.


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## Sonya is soaping (Sep 11, 2018)

I don't understand as a beginner, why don't you just use other peoples recipes, there are literally hundreds of them online. Once you have made quite a few successful soaps and understand the process better then go onto trying your own recipes.
Just a thought, as it seems like diving in the deep end will end up with you giving up eventually


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## DeeAnna (Sep 11, 2018)

Just because a person follows someone else's recipe doesn't mean the soap making process will go smoothly or the soap will be good. Of all those online recipes, a large percentage are mediocre to awful. In the case of the OP's situation, the OP has adapted a recipe from a respected soap maker, so the OP isn't trying to make it up utterly from scratch. I don't think the recipe isn't causing the OP's difficulties, regardless of where the recipe comes from -- the trouble is more of a technique issue.


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## Alfa_Lazcares (Sep 11, 2018)

I agree with Sonya, I would also cut back on the FO and colors until you know what you are doing (dont mean to be mean, we all didnt know what we were doing our first batches!) and that you can get a grasp of how a normal process from emulsion to thick trace looks like and from there you can determine when to pour your FO and how much to mix your colors. I just think that you are making this more difficult for yourself, and harder and it really is not that hard, I promise, but you need to walk before you run!


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## Sonya is soaping (Sep 12, 2018)

I'm still new at this but I have had no problems like this at all. I think you lye to water ratio is too strong. You said you're using 1 part lye to 1 part water?
Brambleberry calculator uses 1 part lye to 2.4 parts water for a 5% superfat recipe.
I could be wrong but my gut is saying you need more water ?


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## steffamarie (Sep 12, 2018)

Re: lye concentration 
I use a 33% now but I’ve used up to 40% with little issue - as long as I don’t over blend it. You can totally get away with a 50% solution, but the extra water will help thin the batter and give extra working time.


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## DeeAnna (Sep 12, 2018)

Sonya is soaping said:


> ...I think you lye to water ratio is too strong. You said you're using 1 part lye to 1 part water?....



The OP is using a 35% lye concentration to make their soap. That's a reasonable lye concentration for this recipe. Even a 50% lye concentration would work, but I agree that the soap batch might be more tricky to make that way. But not impossible.

What I think is throwing you, Sonya, is the OP is using a different method than usual to make the lye solution. The OP first made a 50% NaOH solution and then added extra liquid to dilute the solution to a 35% concentration. 

Many of us make masterbatched 50% NaOH solution ahead of time, enough to make multiple batches of soap. To use it to make a batch, you measure it out and add enough extra liquid to dilute the 50% concentration down to the concentration you want for the recipe. You can use any water-based liquid (beer, aloe, milk, etc.) as the extra liquid. 

Read up on masterbatching lye -- there are many threads on SMF about this topic.


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## dixiedragon (Sep 12, 2018)

I have a theory. I am thinking that if her oils were 95 and this was a small batch, and palm has a melt temp of 95, I think her oils started to thicken up (false trace or the beginning of it), so she had to stick blend even more to blend in the colors. I do think next time you try, use just 1 color so maybe a white soap with a swirl of another color. I really struggle to get a smooth pour with 4 colors and I've been doing this a long time!

Is there a reason you used pomace vs grade a olive oil? I get mine from Costco and it's cheaper than any source of pomace in my area. Get the jug that says Olive Oil, not the one that says Virgin Olive Oil.


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## Lin19687 (Sep 12, 2018)

I still say go back to basics, make the Lye (no masterbatch as you might have made a mistake) and do a full water.  Know what your recipe does First before you start to discount water.
Palm at RT WILL thicken faster, I can not do RT with my recipe because of that.  But that may NOT be the full reason for your issues.  You don't 'Know' your recipe in the basic form, how will you figure out what went wrong when you did 6 different things to it.

I am not trying to be mean here..... but you need to walk before you run.


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## McLasz (Sep 12, 2018)

Lin19687 said:


> You already have this in the OTHER thread.


OOPS- I didn't mean to double it. I thought I took it out of the other thread. Sorry about that.


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## McLasz (Sep 12, 2018)

After reading all of your thoughts and suggestions I am coming away with some mixed emotions. 
Thank you to those of you who have been supportive and understanding of the excitement that sometimes can take over and make a person want to do it all right out of the gate. Clearly that was me. I appreciate you're patience and care in responding. I have new valuable information that I can learn from.
Being that this is a "beginner" forum, I hope that no one else goes away feeling dumb, especially from another "newbie's" response.
I realize now that I posted in two threads, by mistake- I thought I deleted it from the other one. Apparently I did not. Honest mistake. No need for caps.
All of this said, I get it. Go back to basics, observe, learn, take good notes and repeat. But for God sake, don't ask stupid questions!


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## amd (Sep 12, 2018)

When you're first starting, there are no stupid questions, so don't feel bad.


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## dibbles (Sep 12, 2018)

@McLasz Ditto what amd said. I totally understand wanting to try it all right away. You should feel that you can ask any question here. That is so much better than making a mistake. I've been making soap for a little over three years, and the learning never stops. There is always something new to explore. And since you learned from 'trying it all' there is value in that as well, both to you and another ambitious newbie that may read this thread in the future. Plain soap is beautiful. If you really can't bring yourself to make an uncolored, unscented batch, the first thing I would add in is a fragrance - as long as you are certain you have one that behaves. There is a fragrance review board *here*, and many suppliers have soaping notes or reviews to read. Or you can start a thread in the fragrance section of the forum asking for recommendations, or listing what you have on hand. Your soapy journey is just beginning. I am sure you will be making great soap before long, but this will not be the only bump in the road. I had a major fail this week - it happens to everyone sometimes.


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## Lin19687 (Sep 12, 2018)

@McLasz   "But for God sake, don't ask stupid questions!"  If this is towards me, that is not what I said.  I did give you advise.  Search, Learn, get basics done, then once you have all the basics then try new things.  Took me more then 30 batches of simple recipes to get things right.
You have to understand that these questions are asked over and over.  People gave you a lot of advise .  I admit I get short worded at times and that is the nature of the interwebs beast.  Take what you want and leave the rest.


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## Consuela (Sep 12, 2018)

Learning to soap takes time. We have ALL started at square one. Sometimes we just forget what that looks and feels like from time to time - even if we're not that far out of the gate ourselves.

To address the comment above about why she didn't just use someone else's recipe: My very first recipe was someone else's. That was also the very last time I ever used anyone else's random soap recipe. It sucked, quite simply put  And I already liked DeAnna's response to that, but I feel like it needs to be said again: using anyone else's recipe does not guarantee you success.

Soaping catastrophes they happen to anyone, at any time, even the most seasoned soapmaker.

Sometimes smaller batches of soap trace really quickly for me. At first that's what I thought might have happened here for you - but upon further inspection of your numbers (this is not as small a batch as I had initially pictured in my head), and I'm in agreeance with DeAnna here that maybe the stick blending bursts were too heavy at the beginning and you were past the point of emulsion and well into trace perhaps by the time you got to colouring and scenting.

Give it another try and don't let this setback, set you back


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## SaltedFig (Sep 12, 2018)

McLasz said:


> After reading all of your thoughts and suggestions I am coming away with some mixed emotions.
> Thank you to those of you who have been supportive and understanding of the excitement that sometimes can take over and make a person want to do it all right out of the gate. Clearly that was me. I appreciate you're patience and care in responding. I have new valuable information that I can learn from.
> Being that this is a "beginner" forum, I hope that no one else goes away feeling dumb, especially from another "newbie's" response.
> I realize now that I posted in two threads, by mistake- I thought I deleted it from the other one. Apparently I did not. Honest mistake. No need for caps.
> All of this said, I get it. Go back to basics, observe, learn, take good notes and repeat. But for God sake, don't ask stupid questions!



The question (requesting help understanding where you went wrong) is extraordinarily common, but not usually accompanied with such careful attention to detail. Your version of this very common question is exemplary for it's detail, not stupid 

I would like to add one small thing, to add to my earlier answer:


McLasz said:


> I thought that maybe my stick blender is too powerful for small batches? its over 800 watts- could that be it?



A powerful stick blender can cause your soap batter to thicken quickly, but the batter consistency is still within your control.

Knowing when your soap batter has reached emulsion is one of the foundation skills that can benefit every soaper. It can be especially useful if you work with accelerating fragrances or recipes, and comes into it's own if you like working with complex designs and multiple colours.

This link is Newbie's Stickblending to Emulsion video, and if I can recommend you just one video to watch, this one is it!


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## Alfa_Lazcares (Sep 12, 2018)

So many people want to make it all on their first batch, and its cool if you are feeling adventurous, but if you failed and  are starting to get frustrated, making a few less steps might be helpful. 
I made a plain soap (came up with the recipe myself) asked how it looked, got feedback, twiked it and showed it again. It looked fine and i did it and i ended up with a fine soap. Then i went to try a couple other recipes. And i didnt stumbled across a really bad one, specially when you land on this forum a lot of experienced soapers have shared their “tried and true” recipes. Something can go wrong even then, I agree, and i also find it very good that you came up with all your details to ask the question cause there is a lot of people that come here saying “i mixed my oils and the lye and the soap never hardened, what happened?” And we all are like... “err... we dont know?” You provided the info that was needed. 


I am just like 5 months ahead of you, so by no means an expert, i just can tell you what helped me at the begining and that was a plain soap. I then went to add escential oil to another one and an extra: oatmeal, then i moved to adding the EO, the oats and a color. And so on. My max has been 3 colors, 4 is super ambitious (which is cool, but this things can and do happen even to experienced soapers). 


All that to say that just take a breather, gather yourself and try again. I also though you were making a mini batch and thats why you reached trace so fast but is a little over a kg, so its even bigger than my biggest batch yet. If i were you i would try the recipe again with the changes that you got on this thread (the temps, less stick blending, etc) and just use a color. I am still a bit skeptical about the FO, that’s why i would remove it from the equation. It if wasnt then you can move on to change something else. If it was, then even better. I would also make a smaller batch if something goes wrong again you didnt wasted so much soap. Though this one you can still make confeti.


Anyway. Good luck. Keep trying!


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## dixiedragon (Sep 13, 2018)

Please feel free to ask any and all questions. We are a group of individuals, so sometimes one (or more of us) might seem a little brusque or discouraging in our answers. Try not to take it personally!

I also want to commend your attention to detail and good notes!

I think the only stupid question I've seen here was along the lines of "I don't want to share my super secret proprietary recipe, but I want you to troubleshoot this problem I'm having." The very common newbie question of "lye is scary, can I make soap without lye?" doesn't bug me, but the whole "trouble shoot my secret recipe that I'm not sharing" (that was just one time) really annoyed me!


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## Monique Serio Enete (Sep 15, 2018)

Knowing when your soap batter has reached emulsion is one of the foundation skills that can benefit every soaper. It can be especially useful if you work with accelerating fragrances or recipes, and comes into it's own if you like working with complex designs and multiple colours.

This link is Newbie's Stickblending to Emulsion video, and if I can recommend you just one video to watch, this one is it![/QUOTE]

THIS!  this is what I have been needing to see. I’m scared to death of bigger batches and I always do too much stick blending.  After reading OP and comments I can see one thing I’ve been doing very wrong.  My fear of false trace has me going to a thicker trace than wanted EVERYTIME.   

And to the OP, I’ve made loaves of soap off and on for a year and still can’t get it to my liking. I’ve tried and altered quite a few recipes.  Still can’t find a base recipe for myself.  I only have two batches that were total trash, so that’s a positive  

I’m so thankful to the OP and all that have given advice.  There is so much to learn!  I now spend more time reading than I do
making soap. Always hoping I’ll read another tip to help me make less mistakes


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2018)

congratulations on your first batch McLasz!

sure things went wrong for you, 

but when you sit back later and re-live it...you really should pat yourself on the back for all the things you did do right. 
You soapcalc'd,
you wrote detailed notes, 
you made clear calculations, 
you coloured,  
you scented,
you got the seizing beast in the mould  WOW!
I expect you also followed all safety procedure and came away un-injured. BONUS!

I expect also, your pride may have winced a little. Mine does when things go 'badly'. But your 'things gone badly' couldn't really have gone any worse, so your pride must be a lot more robust than mine.

As with all challenges, please take extra effort to see where you were right. 
Sure, learn from where you were challenged, then move forward to the next challenge...
and try to under-achieve a little next time 

do simple really well, then add in one further twist. One twist at a time. 

Be asured that everyone will be pleased to hear about your next batch...
cause we are all interested....
otherwise no one would have taken the time and effort to comment on your informative post. 
I certainly have learnt from your challenges, and so thank you for sharing them. 

Best Wishes,
Sandra


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## penelopejane (Sep 19, 2018)

McLasz
You will get quite a few differing responses to any “where did I go wrong” post because making soap is a pretty difficult task and we will each have a possible theory to put forward.

Temperature of the ingredients makes a difference to acceleration but learning what emulsion is is key.
Then you have to learn that every recipe is different - pure OO Castile may take a few mins of SBing to reach emulsion at 40*C while a mixed recipe may take 3 seconds. I’ve been soaping for almost 3 years and it still catches me out - I’ll just take this a little further...blast..too far!


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## Arimara (Sep 19, 2018)

This is the first newbie thread where a newbie provided everything to be evaluated in such detail. Well, the other soapers gave great advise. I don't have much to add save maybe get some smaller molds for testing recipes and additives. This hobby costs money you know. Also, checking our some videos of soap emulsion would help you greatly. I know someone had a good one but unfortunately, I forgot who.


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