# my soap is thicker than pumpkin puree



## clownking99 (Aug 15, 2015)

my ingredents are listed down below-  
i coulda sworn that my temps were the same?
once i added the lye mix to the oils and started to blend it got SUPER THICK- like pumpkin puree
what could have gone wrong? is it still fixable? 




250g goat milk
117 grams lye beads

olive oil - 247 grams 
coconut oil -248g
palm oil -165g
shea butter - 124 gr
castor oil - 42 g
fragrance oil - 42 g


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 15, 2015)

can someone give me the top 3 reasons this went wrong?
soon as i started blended (high speed just for 3 second spurts)
added the scent to the oils after all were heated up and shea butter

could the temp diffrences done this? tho i thought they were the same?

its officaily clumpy and i cant use


----------



## TeresaT (Aug 15, 2015)

(1) you didn't run your recipe through SoapCalc?
(2) you used far too much FO
(3) this would have been fine if you used the correct amount if FO?
With the amount/rate of FO/kg I don't believ you can save it.  


ETA:  I had to play with SoapCalc for a while to come up with the 250 gm goat milk and the 42 gm FO.  30.25% WATER TO OIL (not lye to water like I had) ratio is not common.  Neither is a 51 fragrance ratio.  WHERE did you get those numbers/this recipe?  What lye calculator did you use?


----------



## not_ally (Aug 15, 2015)

ClownKing, you've posted several times about your first soap, I think several of us have told you that it would be best to keep it simple.  It seems from Teresa's check that your numbers might be off.  Really, it would be best to start w/a v. basic recipe, checked carefully, and go from there.  Lots of people will be willing to offer opinions on that, but no one will be able to on the current basis.


----------



## Susie (Aug 15, 2015)

You would truly benefit from using a good soap calculator and sticking with the default numbers on things such as fragrance oil percentage, and water as percentage of oil weight.  Just go with the basics until you get much more experience.


----------



## Obsidian (Aug 15, 2015)

That sounds like your soap seized. Top reasons are:

1. your FO, what did you use and where did it come from. Using too much didn't help any either
2. using a lot of hard oils, palm and a high amount of shea are asking for trouble
3. Soaping too warm. You oils/lye don't have to be the same temp but the warmer they are, the faster it will trace.

I would guess it was the FO, that seems to be the most common cause of seize. It can be saved but whether or not it will be safe depends on what FO you used. Some aren't safe at that amount.

You have 2 choices with a seized soap, you can plop it in a crock pot and proceed to hot process it or you can wrap you soaping bowl in a towel and wait for it to go into gel. If you choose the second option, once its in gel you'll want to mix it really well before molding it.


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 15, 2015)

not safe to mix due to sieze? or for my body ? :-0


----------



## Obsidian (Aug 15, 2015)

for your body. Some FO will irritate skin or cause other issues and you used quite a lot. Some will be safe at that amount though, thats why we need to know what it is and where it came from.


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 15, 2015)

found the recipe in her video @ about 6:50 
i felt like i followed it to a 'T' tho i used red unprossesed palm oil

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdp4zy7b9Ag[/ame]


----------



## Susie (Aug 15, 2015)

You always, always, always run every last recipe through a lye calculator for yourself, no matter where you get it from.


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 15, 2015)

the FO was 'artminds' brand that i purchased from michaels
says soap fragrance not soap oil?


----------



## Susie (Aug 15, 2015)

Most soap fragrances available at Michael's and Hobby Lobby are intended for the melt and pour soap that they sell there.  You need to only purchase fragrance oils intended for use in cold processed soap.


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 15, 2015)

could that possibly be the cause?


----------



## Obsidian (Aug 15, 2015)

Watched the video. It traced really quick for her, add in a FO that causes acceleration and its no wonder you got a thick mess. This wasn't a good choice for a beginner recipe and in all honesty, unless you have skin that tends to be oily, it might be too harsh since it has quite a lot of coconut oil.

Yes, the fragrance oil you used is not made for cold process soap. How is soap doing now? Is it getting soft in the crock pot?


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 15, 2015)

could you possibly shoot me a recipe   and i try again?  using some of the same stuff?


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 15, 2015)

i also have lard on hand :-0


----------



## Dahila (Aug 15, 2015)

http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/coldprocesssoapmaking/ss/sscpsoap.htm
he has a lot of recipes


----------



## Susie (Aug 15, 2015)

Dahila said:


> http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/coldprocesssoapmaking/ss/sscpsoap.htm
> he has a lot of recipes



That you need to run through a lye calculator for yourself.

My standard recipe to tell newbies to try is this:

Palm/Lard/Tallow 60%
Olive Oil 20%
Coconut Oil 15%
Castor Oil 5%

Superfat 5%

Use essential oil or fragrance oil intended for use in cold processed soap.  Or better yet, go unscented and uncolored so you limit what can go wrong.


----------



## not_ally (Aug 15, 2015)

People here have been very kind to you, on multiple threads.  Please, just do do the following for your first soap:  use a combination of the "trinity", palm/lard, OO and coconut.  Or go higher w/lard, which is easy to get in the US, which is where you are, I believe.  If you want an easier/slower tracing formula, many folks will be happy to provide it.  Lard is good, as far as I am concerned.   The perfect soaping oil if you are ok w/animal fats (which, if you eat eat meat like most of us do, you should be.)

Forget about FO for your first batch, which seems to have been problematic.  Likewise milks.

This board is enormously useful if you take a bit of time to research.


----------



## Jstar (Aug 15, 2015)

Im sorry, but I gotta say it..not to be snarky or mean, so please do not take it that way.

I have been watching you post about your first soaping project for days now, and you are all over the place. 

We can't help you if we are chasing threads all over the forum..its too confusing..and we WANT to help. So please, please keep it in one thread, and listen to the advice given.

I would start out saying what others have..first and foremost...run every recipe thru a calculator before you do ANYTHING else.

Second, start out with 2-3 basic oils, preferably slower movers, forget about FO's or any other additives..including any other liquids such as milks, teas, coffee's etc..use water.

You need to get a basic feel for how just the soap comes together, and how it performs..and get comfortable with it before you start adding things...that way you will 'know' when something is going wrong, or is about to..and how to avert a disaster, or lose alot of product...or heaven forbid make something that is dangerous.

Just remember, your first soap doesn't have to be a work of art..it takes patience and ALOT practice..and you will have failures..even seasoned soapers have them.

Slow down and enjoy the learning of making artisan soap..we'll be right here with you to help you and to congratulate you


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 15, 2015)

not_alley if u have a problem with my thread feel free just to skip it bro.
yes - i know people have been kind


----------



## Obsidian (Aug 15, 2015)

Make this but stay away from scents for now and only make 1 lb batches until you get the hang of things, less to waste if something goes wrong. I set my SF a 8%, if you have oily skin, you can change it to 5%


http://www.evernote.com/l/ANiTh0q4oF9NdoKoP02aIAeiH1fg9f08uMg/


----------



## TeresaT (Aug 15, 2015)

clownking, everyone has been giving you wonderful advice.  I watched the video you posted and was impressed with the patience she had with taking that long to mix her lye with her milk.  I have made buttermilk soap, once mixing it with the lye (dump lye in frozen buttermilk, watch it turn brown and stink to high heaven). The next time I added it at trace...and watched it turn brown and stink a little bit.  I'll have to try the ice bath/take-an-hour-to-mix-it method.   Or, not so much.  Anyway.  Here's my starter recipe.  I've had wonderful luck with this and have slowly buildt up from it.  I've played with percentages and added "extras" and different oils.  AFTER the soap has cured long enough for me to use it a while and get a feel for it.  Run the numbers through SoapCalc first and post it.  Don't use any additives or FOs.  Just make a pure soap with lye and distilled water. Don't run before you can walk.  Ready?

60% lard
30% olive oil
10% coconut oil.

That's it.  Your local grocery store has all three oils and the distilled water.  Make a two pound batch and see how you like it.  Then, after it has cured for SIX WHOLE LONG BORING WEEKS, give it to family and friends and see how they like it.  Then, based on the feedback, tweak it a little bit.  Maybe 50% lard, 40% olive & 10% coconut; and start your whole process again.  Soaping is not for the impatient.

Good luck.  Please plug in the numbers and post your screenshot.  I want to make sure you understand how to use it.

ETA:  Obsidian has a good point.  Made one pound batches.  I have a two-pound mold so that's my go-to size.  But you can make smaller batches and almost use anything for a mold.


----------



## not_ally (Aug 15, 2015)

Great, I am a bro!  Not sure why that is good, but it seems so somehow.  Clownking, threads have a life of their own, I'm afraid that you don't own them once they are posted.  Also, being defensive about soaping advice is somewhat ill-advised.  Mine not be to your taste, but really, it might be best to have an open mind.


----------



## DeeAnna (Aug 16, 2015)

"...not_alley if u have a problem with my thread feel free just to skip it bro...."

That was rather rude of you to say this. Not_ally has not said a word to you that deserves this kind of response. She and many others have been bending over backwards to help you simply because you asked, nothing more. The quickest way to dry up this kindness is to say stuff like this.


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 16, 2015)

Teresa i did my lye milk the same way - turned out exactly the same ;-0
thought it was going to be a home run :\


----------



## TeresaT (Aug 16, 2015)

clownking99 said:


> Teresa i did my lye milk the same way - turned out exactly the same ;-0
> thought it was going to be a home run :\



Cool!  Maybe I will give it a shot.  I have the goat milk in the fridge.  I just haven't gotten up the courage to give it a go yet after the buttermilk episodes.  The funky smell kinda put me off milk soaps.  Did the GM smell bad when you did it?

Now apologize to NA (she says threateningly shaking her rolling pin at your head.)


----------



## cmzaha (Aug 16, 2015)

TeresaT said:


> (1) you didn't run your recipe through SoapCalc?
> (2) you used far too much FO
> (3) this would have been fine if you used the correct amount if FO?
> With the amount/rate of FO/kg I don't believ you can save it.
> ...


Not sure how you came up with to much fo, but what Clownking used was half the amount of fo I would use, and a 32% Lye Concentration which is 30.1% of Water as % of Oil, is not uncommon. But I would recommend going with the recommended "full water" of 38% Water as % of Oil or a 27.2% Lye Concentration.

When using soap calc you have 3 choices under the #3 section. Number 1 being Water as percent of oil, (38 is the default) #2 Lye Concentration, #3 Water:Lye Ratio. Hopefully I did not add confusion

As mentioned stay away from fo's from hobby stores, they just are not manufactured for cold process soap. Even some that are made for cp can be troublesome


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 16, 2015)

sorry for being immature and making too many threads NA  :-(
this isnt the first forum ive been that btw :-0   i have many hobbies


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 16, 2015)

my first melt and poor a few weeks ago
i moved the mold as it was setting so it has a nice rippled effect :-\


----------



## not_ally (Aug 16, 2015)

D and T, thank you for being kind.   King, I am sorry if I was cranky.  I just want you to make good soap out of the bat.  It is so fun to do, and it is not hard if you stay simple.  You can get fancy pretty quick, but at the beginning it just is so much easier - and beautiful, you might come back to the simple ones after all the tricks - to just go forward in a basic way.  Simple is really, really good.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Aug 16, 2015)

It's not that you make too many threads, per se, rather that they are all very similar to one another - I lost count of how many times I saw you post that recipe, to the point that I started to think it was the oddest spam attack ever!

It doesn't take long to get used to this forum and the preferred styles of things, though.


----------



## TeresaT (Aug 16, 2015)

cmzaha said:


> Not sure how you came up with to much fo, but what Clownking used was half the amount of fo I would use, and a 32% Lye Concentration which is 30.1% of Water as % of Oil, is not uncommon. But I would recommend going with the recommended "full water" of 38% Water as % of Oil or a 27.2% Lye Concentration.
> 
> When using soap calc you have 3 choices under the #3 section. Number 1 being Water as percent of oil, (38 is the default) #2 Lye Concentration, #3 Water:Lye Ratio. Hopefully I did not add confusion
> 
> As mentioned stay away from fo's from hobby stores, they just are not manufactured for cold process soap. Even some that are made for cp can be troublesome



You are right. There are multiple ways of looking at the figures on SoapCalc.  I usually use oz, not gm, so I was having to convert.  You've seen my other posts, you know I'm not good with math. (Face palm). Every mathematically challenged person should hand out free advice, donchaknow.   However, in my defense, this guy is new to making soap.  He followed a recipe from a YouTube video.  He did not run the numbers through any lye calculator himself.  He had approximately 29 oz oils and used 1.5 oz FO.  The default on SoapCalc is set at .5 oz ppo.  If he had used the calculator at the default settings he would have used significantly less FO and significantly more GM.  That video was a good tutorial (even though she talks waaaaaay too much); however, I do not think it was a good enough  for someone that has not made multiple batches of soap before (and has obviously not done any significant research on how to make soap).  Perhaps I was out of line for trying to help a fellow-newbie, and for that I am terribly sorry.  But I still believe my statements and advice are dead-on accurate for someone that is not experienced in making soap, which is why I only gave him percentages and asked him to run them through the calculator for me before he did anything. I've been making soap for only 4 months.  I've only had one complete failure.  I've had to rebatch several (as we ALL know) and I've made a few with buttermilk. Although I like the way the BM soap feels, I don't like the way it smelled when I made it or used it.  It's put me off milk soaps.  I'm glad I saw this post.  I watched the video and learned something.  But I'm not sure I'm going to grab the can of GM out of the fridge and pour it into the ice trays just yet. (I'm sorry this is so long, or if anyone finds it rude or insulting.  I don't mean for it to be.  I'm just honest and kind of blunt.)


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 16, 2015)

i went to walmart to get distilled water and they didnt have any - go figure
can i just use bottled dasani water?  it has 025 tds


----------



## TeresaT (Aug 16, 2015)

I would not use anything but distilled water.  However, maybe someone else can give you better advice.


----------



## not_ally (Aug 16, 2015)

Susie said:


> That you need to run through a lye calculator for yourself.
> 
> My standard recipe to tell newbies to try is this:
> 
> ...



I know you are going to dismiss this, coming from me, but this is a a really good recipe to start with, almost no fail, and a **** good bar of soap. If you add an FO, make sure it is well behaved.


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 16, 2015)

do you mix   the lard/OO/CO/castor oil all in a pan and warm it up to 127* , then stir it for a little bit and let it set  until room temp?


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Aug 16, 2015)

Not Theresa, but you can melt them all together, or just heat the solid oils until melted and then add the liquid fats. 

Some people use heat transfer- your lye solution starts off hot and we need heat to melt those oils......so we pour the freshly made lye solution over our solid fats to melt them, then add in the liquid fats


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 16, 2015)

Btw could my soap have gone wrong and super clumpy if i blended it up 2 much?


----------



## Susie (Aug 16, 2015)

It would not have gone clumpy.  That was the giveaway clue to the FO being your problem.  Some FOs just behave badly, and need special handling.  When I read it was from Michael's, I knew instantly it was for MP soap because I just went there the other day and that was all they had.(You will soon find yourself unable to resist checking out soaping supplies in any store you go into.  And almost everything can be used for soaping in some capacity.)


----------



## Seawolfe (Aug 16, 2015)

Yes for acceleration like that, its almost always the fragrance oil, or sometimes floral EO's. Unless of course you are soaping with stearic acid, then its the stearic acid.

I've used tap water for my soaps, it works, but distilled is better. Anything closer to distilled is better.


----------



## rparrny (Aug 16, 2015)

Excuse me for putting in my 2 cents as I am not a seasoned soap maker but did have a similar experience that might have some bearing here.  I had one of my first batches of soap seize up on me and I followed everything to the letter via soap calc...only to find out what I thought was a bargain OO from costco was a mixture of OO and some other oil (don't remember anymore which one).  It was the mixture that caused the seize.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Aug 16, 2015)

It would have to be mixed with something rather odd to cause a seize - if it was mixed with some other oil it wouldn't necessarily seize.


----------



## DeeAnna (Aug 16, 2015)

Actually any oil that is close to becoming rancid or definitely rancid will have a lot of free fatty acids (FFA). These fatty acids can cause ricing and seizing in what should be a mild-mannered soap recipe. The effect is much like when you add a few percent of stearic acid to a bath bar recipe -- in effect you are deliberately adding FFAs to the batter. The amount of FFA in a not-fresh oil will vary depending on circumstances and you can't always smell or see any difference to alert you that the oil has a high % of FFAs. This means you can't predict the effect, but it does happen.


----------



## Jstar (Aug 16, 2015)

TeresaT said:


> Although I like the way the BM soap feels, I don't like the way it smelled when I made it or used it.  It's put me off milk soaps.  I'm glad I saw



I almost gave up on milk soaps as well because of the smell..not because the milk scorched {which is what happened to yours btw} but because of the baby spit up smell after the bars were cured..however I have discovered coconut milk {goya brand} and it is WONDERFUL with no yuck smells..still freeze it tho so you dont scorch it}



clownking99 said:


> i went to walmart to get distilled water and they didnt have any - go figure
> can i just use bottled dasani water?  it has 025 tds



I use all kinds of water...Dasani water is fine imo. Also if you can't find the distilled, go to the babyfood section in the grocery store..


----------



## not_ally (Aug 16, 2015)

J, I had that cheesy smell in a full cream bar I made.  I almost threw them out, and then tried one, it is really, really nice.  Plus the smell went away in use, and I don't smell it at all, which is weird, I don't know why wetting them would fix the problem.  I still smell the cheesiness in the unused bars, so I don't give them to anyone but my mom (she doesn't care), but I sure do like them.


----------



## Obsidian (Aug 16, 2015)

I can smell the sour milk scent in any bars with any type of cow products, even in cured bars it smells rancid to me. I don't notice it with goats milk though. I do prefer coconut milk myself, no weird smell and it makes the lather really nice.


----------



## not_ally (Aug 16, 2015)

King, Nature's Garden is a good place to order from if you are starting out w/FO's, they have pretty cheap testing sizes and discount if you buy 10 or more, I think.  Plus they ship really fast.  Their FO's can be hit or miss, but if you post the ones you are interested in here, lots of people have experience with them.  Or if you have a certain scent type that you like, folks could make suggestions.  There are other places that do testers/samplers w/no minimum order as well.


----------



## not_ally (Aug 16, 2015)

Obsidian said:


> I can smell the sour milk scent in any bars with any type of cow products, even in cured bars it smells rancid to me. I don't notice it with goats milk though. I do prefer coconut milk myself, no weird smell and it makes the lather really nice.



That is the thing, Obsidian, I still get the smell in the cured unused bars, just not once I actually wet/use them.  I only got the funky smell from the full cream bars (not from eg, yogurt, buttermilk, gm), I figured it was from the amount of butterfat.  I do like CM the best though, I agree w/you on the lather.


----------



## rparrny (Aug 16, 2015)

Its been a few years but I think it was canola oil.  My next batch with the same recipe using the non-mixture was perfect as my teacher assured me it would be.


----------



## TeresaT (Aug 16, 2015)

Thanks for the tips on the milks.  One of the big problems, and hindsight is always glaringly obvious, is that I didn't do the ice water bath at all.  I read that I should.  I knew that I should.  But I don't use ice because I have sensitive teeth.  I would have had to get dressed and go buy ice.  I'm lazy.  My milk scorched and smelled nasty.  So the second time, I tossed it in with the oils.  My milk burned and smelled nasty.  Lesson learned.  I will go buy a bag of ice before I make any kind of milk soap again.  And I will do the takes-forever-to-combine-them method from the video, too.  I will also look for Goya brand coconut milk.


----------



## not_ally (Aug 16, 2015)

Teresa, have you tried the split method?  I find it so much easier.  Just involves splitting your lye liquid, putting the lye into one half of it and adding to the oils, and then adding the rest w/the milks/other stuff blended in later (I do at emulsification, others do to the oils or at trace.  But I have never had stinkiness or acceleration doing it this way, and you don't have to mess w/ice or temperature differences.)


----------



## Jstar (Aug 16, 2015)

not_ally said:


> J, I had that cheesy smell in a full cream bar I made.  I almost threw them out, and then tried one, it is really, really nice.  Plus the smell went away in use, and I don't smell it at all, which is weird, I don't know why wetting them would fix the problem.  I still smell the cheesiness in the unused bars, so I don't give them to anyone but my mom (she doesn't care), but I sure do like them.



My cows milk soap was the weirdest..the bars themselves were fine when cured...the only time I had an issue was when I touched the dry bars..the smell was on my hands 'only', but I could lean over and sniff the bar and I got nothing but clean smell..no smell when the bar was wet either, either on me or the bar...

When I switched to coconut milk however, I was hooked.. so never even attempted to try GM since I figured it was from an animal.


----------



## Jstar (Aug 16, 2015)

TeresaT said:


> Thanks for the tips on the milks.  One of the big problems, and hindsight is always glaringly obvious, is that I didn't do the ice water bath at all.  I read that I should.  I knew that I should.  But I don't use ice because I have sensitive teeth.  I would have had to get dressed and go buy ice.  I'm lazy.  My milk scorched and smelled nasty.  So the second time, I tossed it in with the oils.  My milk burned and smelled nasty.  Lesson learned.  I will go buy a bag of ice before I make any kind of milk soap again.  And I will do the takes-forever-to-combine-them method from the video, too.  I will also look for Goya brand coconut milk.



I freeze my coconut milk, and use at 100%. I sit my container in an ice bath while I add my lye so it stays pretty cold throughout the process..it will get kinda thick, and I stir a bit more than I would for say water, just to make sure it all gets dissolved..but once it hits the oils, it works for me pretty much as normal..I dont SB too much..I do more stirring with the SB than I do actually pulsing. I also dont do much in the way of superfatting.

Once you try it you will love coconut milk..such creamy lather and a nice clean milky type smell..its yummy

My next batch is probably going to be made using coconut milk and strawberry puree...may not even use  a FO since I love the way the coconut milk smells.

ETA: 





> And I will do the takes-forever-to-combine-them method from the video,  too



I kept wondering about why you said 'forever' to combine..so I went and watched that video..and omg..she takes an HOUR??:shock: ..holy moly..it doesn't take that long AT ALL..not for me it don't anyway..maybe 15 mins TOPS because I stir a bit longer than the water.


----------



## Mommy (Aug 16, 2015)

You oils/lye don't have to be the same temp but the warmer they are, the faster it will trace.
[/QUOTE]

i've been soaping for 2 years and never had that explained so simply before. Thank you!


----------



## Obsidian (Aug 16, 2015)

My very first soap was made with 100% goat milk. Chilled, not frozen. I took about 15 minutes to add in all the lye and it never overheated. I may have used a ice water bath too, I can't remember now.


----------



## IrishLass (Aug 16, 2015)

I do my milk soap via the split method that not_ally mentioned. I used to make them via the freezing method when I first started soaping, but I really, really suck at doing it that way. lol

The split method is the bees knees for me. No extra work or drama involved. I just mix my lye 50/50 with water (which is easy for me because I work from a 50% master-batched solution anyway), then I add my refrigerated or room temp goat milk to my oils either before or after adding my lye solution into them. My soap does not get that stinky ammonia smell and they turn out a lovely, creamy off-white color. I don't get any overheating or separation issues with the split method either. And if I want to do a 100% milk soap with the split method, all I have to do is fortify my fresh milk with enough powdered milk to bring it to the proper concentration for my batch, and then soap as normal. 


IrishLass


----------



## not_ally (Aug 17, 2015)

One of IL's posts turned me on to the joys of the split method, and I pretty much use it all the time now, since I put CM in almost every batch.  For me it is so, so much simpler.  I do pretty much as she does, except add most/all of my additives (EDTA, sugar solution, milks, any purees) into the remaining liquid portion, stick blend well, then add the whole thing at emulsification.  I also do the full 100% milk thing, with either liquid milk as the "second half" and powdered added, or just adding a full powder amount to the second half if I am using aloe (usually do instead of water if I do not use liquid milk.)  It really helps me not to forget stuff, as well.

ETA:  I do use a slow tracing blend though (majority lovely, lovey lard) and rarely have problems w/acceleration, so maybe your results would vary if you use a quick-tracing one.   But I do discount water a bit, I usually use a 33% lye solution.  IL, I might be turning into your soaping mini-me, that is another recommendation from you that I took to heart. Unless you are actually 5 ft tall, then I will just be your soaping accolyte.  But Susie might still come first in the pantheon b/c of you know, the lard


----------



## IrishLass (Aug 17, 2015)

not_ally said:


> IL, I might be turning into your soaping mini-me, that is another recommendation from you that I took to heart. Unless you are actually 5 ft tall, then I will just be your soaping accolyte.


 
I am five-foot 1 and 3/16ths inches (gotta squeeze every last one of those micro-inches in there, lol). Having my own mini-me would be awesome because there is no one smaller than me amongst my family and friends. I am a hobbit in the world of men, as Tolkien might have put it (but thankfully my feet are a lot prettier). lol 



not_ally said:


> But Susie might still come first in the pantheon b/c of you know, the lard


 Aaaargh- I _knew_ it! Lard always wins in the end! 


IrishLass


----------



## not_ally (Aug 17, 2015)

Hah, you are a shrimp, I knew it! You should console yourself w/the fact that you have pretty feet, mine are not.  

Also, you know, lard.  I was going to try and be insightful. But Just Lard


----------



## IrishLass (Aug 17, 2015)

not_ally said:


> Hah, you are a shrimp, I knew it! You should console yourself w/the fact that you have pretty feet, mine are not.


 
Compared to hobbit feet, all feet are pretty. If you don't have hobbit feet, then I'm sure yours are prettier than you think! 



not_ally said:


> Also, you know, lard. I was going to try and be insightful. But Just Lard


 
No further words need to be said.  


IrishLass


----------



## Susie (Aug 17, 2015)

LOL, no one can be my mini-me, either!  I am only 5'3"(on a good day).  But it is not me that wins, it is the lard.  One oil to rule them all.  _Preciousss, my preciousss..._


----------



## not_ally (Aug 17, 2015)

Susie, apparently you are a giant among not so much giants   I know what you mean about crooning to the lard, though.  After I lug my 50 lb boxes up the steps I look at them and pat them fondly and possessively.  OK, this might be a problem.


----------



## DeeAnna (Aug 17, 2015)

I rendered my first batch of hog fat a few weeks ago. I really like soap made with store boughten lard ... but it ain't got nuthin on the two batches of soap I made with the home rendered stuff! 

At least that's what I tell myself. :wink:


----------



## Susie (Aug 18, 2015)

I will never willingly render fat again.  I may have to to get tallow, but not willingly.  It is as my mother used to say, "Too much sugar for a dime."  I love my store bought beautiful lard, and will find some online source of tallow ASAP.  I found out how nicely it plays with lard, and I may have to do that again.


----------



## DeeAnna (Aug 18, 2015)

My friend Renae gave me some suet recently when she heard I had rendered lard. I haven't got the suet rendered yet but I'm looking forward to doing that and trying tallow in soap. Given I have a couple of tried and true recipes w high percentages of lard, would you suggest I replace some of the lard w tallow? And by how much ... a quarter ... third ... half?


----------



## Susie (Aug 18, 2015)

I like the tallow soaps, but I like the tallow/lard soaps best.  I used this recipe for the best one:

Lard 47.5%
Tallow 47.5%
Castor Oil 5%
Sugar 1 T PPO
Superfat 5%

I thought I would keep it just the animal fats so that I knew exactly which oils gave which properties to that soap.  I may never use CO or OO again, LOL.

I may have to play with that recipe a bit to tweak it, but it really is amazing.


----------



## DeeAnna (Aug 18, 2015)

Thanks, Susie. I put your recipe into my soap calculator and I like how it looks. Thank you for sharing! 

I also learned from your recipe that tallow adds a dab of lauric and myristic acids to the recipe, which are the fatty acids that CO provides. I didn't realize that tallow had these fatty acids -- I have never played with tallow recipes before today, since I've never had any tallow to try until Renae's gift.

Tallow also shifts the balance of palmitic-stearic-oleic toward more stearic and less palmitic and oleic. That would make a harder, less lathery bar -- perhaps to a fault. I can see now why many recipes with tallow often have it mixed with a goodly % of lard and/or other low-stearic fats.


----------



## rparrny (Aug 19, 2015)

For those who hate to render fat, I have two tips for you that might change your mind.
1.  Get your butcher to grind the fat for you like you would grind chop meat.  If you have a meat grinder you can do it yourself.  This will give you the most rendered fat for your buck.
2.  Put your ground up fat in a large crockpot before you go to bed...when you wake up the fat will be rendered and you only need to strain it out.

I strain several times through larger and then finer sieves, then finally through muslin...if it has cooled even a little, heat up for the muslin strain so you don't waste a lot in the cloth.

Hope this changes your mind!


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 25, 2015)

first successful batch of soap made!  thanks so much to obsidian for the recipe and the step by steps 
will post pics tomorrow once the bars harden 
https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search...lla&fr=yhs-mozilla-002&p=successful&fr2=12642


----------



## Obsidian (Aug 25, 2015)

What ever happened to your first batch? Did cooking it help at all?


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 25, 2015)

the first batch didnt melt in the crockpot
just sorta softened up  like a extra thick mashed potatoes. my wife kept stirring it together and wound up keeping it !   i told her to pitch the batch but she refuses.    luckily it is keeping the room smelling nice!
should i secretly discard of it?    im sort of worried it could be damaging to our skin?


----------



## Obsidian (Aug 26, 2015)

That sounds like normal rebatch. I would zap test it just to be sure but its probably fine.


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 26, 2015)

Do i zap test in a month or now?
Btw this morning i took my soap out of the molds
And the soap was still soft like butter? Is this normal? Will it harden? How long does it usually take? Thanks again!


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Aug 26, 2015)

The zap test tells you when all the lye has gone (saponification is finished) so it shouldn't zap after 72 hours at the most usually. If you test then and get a zap, there could well be something amiss


----------



## Obsidian (Aug 26, 2015)

I usually wait a week after cutting to zap test. Soap can sometimes take a day or two to completely harden, just give it more time. When I make that recipe I can usually unmold and cut in about 8 hours but I use less water which will make it set up faster.
What did you use for a mold?


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 26, 2015)

Used a silicone mold
And also used a plastic mold


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 26, 2015)

Heres what my first bar looks like


----------



## Obsidian (Aug 26, 2015)

Looks great, good job! I like the lettering, neat idea.


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 26, 2015)

Obsidian heres some soap i made with the red palm oil!  5%


----------



## Obsidian (Aug 26, 2015)

Thats a really nice color and not so vivid it will make yellow lather.


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 26, 2015)

Hopefully it doesnt stain the tub or my bath towel :0


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 31, 2015)

well i done it again.
so tonight i made another batch - my wife said dont make another batch of soap without scent .

this time i bought Essential Oil from michaels not fragrance oil.
i added the EO to my oils then added the lye water and started blending
it came to a thick trace  Quick
where as before it would take me about 10 mins to come to trace

should this batch go in the trash?  will the soap go threw sopafication ?


----------



## doriettefarm (Aug 31, 2015)

Post your recipe and pics so we can help troubleshoot


----------



## clownking99 (Aug 31, 2015)

here is my recipe 
should i have waited until emulsification to add the EO?
seemed like it blended up WAY QUICK - id say 1-2 min tops
or was this just another case of the wrong EO?
will the soap go threw emulsification ? i added 0.25oz of EO that i purchased from michaels


----------



## galaxyMLP (Aug 31, 2015)

What eo was it?


----------



## doriettefarm (Aug 31, 2015)

ditto what galaxy asked . . . which EO?  1/4 oz PPO doesn't seem like too much to me.  I usually add mine to the melted oils before adding the lye water.  Floral or spicy EOs/FOs can accelerate trace so maybe that or temp could be a factor.  How hot were your oils & lye water when mixing?


----------



## clownking99 (Sep 1, 2015)

http://www.michaels.com/artminds-so...agrance/10448095.html#q=essential+oil&start=1


----------



## galaxyMLP (Sep 1, 2015)

Looks to me like that's still an FO. It's a blended FO/EO and since its lavender, a floral scent, it wouldn't surprise me that it accelerates. If you are looking for a decent lavender that doesn't accelerate (and is 100% lavender eo), I just soaped with Radha lavender eo from amazon and it was very nice. It also has a very nice floral scent and is inexpensive for 4 oz.


----------



## Susie (Sep 1, 2015)

You really need to order your EOs/FOs from a reputable vendor online.  Most of what Michael's and Hobby Lobby sells are intended to use in the MP they carry.  You need to be sure what you are ordering is intended to be used with CP.  This is when it pays to just order online.  You may want to check with us before ordering, also, because not all vendors are reputable.


----------



## Jstar (Sep 1, 2015)

Also, how long are you SB'ing? 1-2 mins isn't an _extremely_ quick trace..but you should be doing more stirring than SB'ing...


----------



## Obsidian (Sep 1, 2015)

I have to agree here, you need to stop buying crap supplies at hobby stores. If you want scented soap, buy scent online from a recommended supplier. 1-2 minutes isn't that bad for trace and there is no reason the soap won't be just fine. How is it doing this morning?


----------



## not_ally (Sep 1, 2015)

Agree about never buying from craft stores.  Do the labels on the colors/fragrances from those places make clear that they should only be used in MP?  

This one did not (just talks about how great it will be in "your hand crafted soap") which would be kind of rude, IMO, if it is likely to cause problems in CP.  I know the "buyer beware" thing comes into play here, but it seems wrong, as well as a bad business practice, in the end.

Many people starting out do buying from craft stores, it is not good when they waste money/time on things that they don't know will be a problem, and even worse because having a bad batch at the start is so disappointing.


----------



## rparrny (Sep 4, 2015)

I will agree...mostly because the craft stores have NOTHING.  I had a 40% Michaels coupon and went looking for alphabet script stamps to use on my soaps with some gold mica I have.  I found exactly what I wanted...full alphabet with caps and small letters, numbers, exclamation point, dollar signs...more than I expected or needed in one kit...and with my coupon...$11.00...so I considered that a bargain and I have been testing on a reject soap and it looks beautiful.  That being said, I went to the soap making section just to see what they had and I was shocked to see how little they had for soap making and what little they had was low quality and overpriced.
But I think I got a steal on my stamps...


----------



## clownking99 (Sep 12, 2015)

How long until i can use the soap yo i made it on the 26th of lastmonth :-0 im ready to try it out


----------



## Obsidian (Sep 12, 2015)

You can test it on your hands now if you want but its best to wait at least 4 weeks. I tried to answer your PM but your inbox is full.


----------



## clownking99 (Sep 12, 2015)

I guess i need to upgrade my account when i get paid Monday 
Obsidian what kind of fragrance should i get? 
Can you link me to any lilly /orchid oils/ fruity smells that i can add to my soap :-0
I dont want to buy the wrong kind again


----------



## Obsidian (Sep 12, 2015)

You don't have to upgrade your account, just go delete your old messages. I'm afraid I don't use any of the fragrances you asked about but my favorite place to buy from is http://www.naturesgardencandles.com/  make sure read the reviews and notes about how the scents behave. Even FO's made for CP can misbehave at times.


----------



## cmzaha (Sep 12, 2015)

clownking99 said:


> I guess i need to upgrade my account when i get paid Monday
> Obsidian what kind of fragrance should i get?
> Can you link me to any lilly /orchid oils/ fruity smells that i can add to my soap :-0
> I dont want to buy the wrong kind again


Florals are notorious for accelerating trace so it is best to stay away from florals. It you want a luscious smelling non accelerating, non discoloring Black Raspberry Vanilla that smells and soaps like a dream try the one from soapsupplies.net. It is a great beginners fragrance. Energy Fragrance oil from Brambleberry is another great beginners fragrance that behaves perfectly and smell nice. When you are considering purchasing it is good to read the reviews and get an idea how the fo may act. Wholesalesupplieokys has a nice Raspberry Lemonade that also behaves well, although it is not as strong as my customers like. Lemongrass and Litsea EO work very nicely


----------



## clownking99 (Sep 12, 2015)

And whats the purpose of curing the soap for  4 weeks ? I just washed my hands and everything went great :-D just wish it had a smell


----------



## dillsandwitch (Sep 12, 2015)

clownking99 said:


> And whats the purpose of curing the soap for  4 weeks ? I just washed my hands and everything went great :-D just wish it had a smell




The soap is undergoing chemical changes as it cures. It becomes milder and gentler and the lather also improves as the water is evaporating out.  The longer the cure the better a soap gets. Try it again in another week and you'll be surprised at the difference

Hope I phrased that right. If not I'm sure someone will correct me.


----------



## Susie (Sep 12, 2015)

dillsandwitch said:


> The soap is undergoing chemical changes as it cures. It becomes milder and gentler and the lather also improves as the water is evaporating out.  *The longer the cure the better a soap gets.* Try it again in another week and you'll be surprised at the difference
> 
> Hope I phrased that right. If not I'm sure someone will correct me.



The longer the cure the better a soap gets *to a certain point*.  After that, it stays fairly stable for a while.  Depending on the recipe, soap can be cured in as little as 4 weeks or as long as a year.


----------



## clownking99 (Sep 24, 2015)




----------



## clownking99 (Sep 24, 2015)

My first scented bars- i made them lastnight! Yayyy
Obsi been super helpful and has walked me threw step by step along the way. Always more than willing to help.
My first scented bars are all cause of u obsi
Thank u, ans everyone whos added input


----------

