# shampoo/ conditioner bars



## JCsuds (Jan 14, 2015)

Hi I am new here I have 3  daughters and a wife with long thick hair (I am mostly bald 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  ) and we want to get off the grid as far as shampoo and conditioners  etc…. I am looking for some good shampoo bar soap recipes  I bought a bunch of jello and tart tins molds  made out of metal . After looking at many forums I have seen that most folks use wood boxes with a lining . I have been spending a couple of hours at night reading  but I am not sure I am getting it .:crazy: hot cold melt and pour 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/261716171804?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261713949495?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT  . I got the Idea from a book The Complete Soapmaker: Tips, Techniques  & Recipes for Luxurious Handmade Soaps . She has soaps made in tins  like these but what I am wondering is could you get these out with a  heat gun? or how would you do it ?  Or are there other  hand soap recipes , or conditioner bars that you might have under your belt now that you could share ?  I  am particularly interested in ones with tallow .I  have access to an abundance of Beef suet . I have heard that it can go  rancid fairly quickly does anyone know what could added to the bars to  be a natural preservative that they have had experience with like  Benzoin , ascorbate etc…. I have not made my first batch yet but I am  hoping to gain the wisdom of other soapers first  Thanks in advance  James


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## Obsidian (Jan 14, 2015)

You don't use metal not because the soap is hard to remove but because the lye will react to metal unless its stainless steel. You can use a milk carton or drawer organizers from the dollar store for molds.

Cold process is soap made with oils and lye that isn't cooked, its poured into the molds once all the ingredients have been mixed and it starts to get thick. Hot process is the same process but once its thick, you cook it in a crock pot to speed up the chemical reaction that turns the oils into soap. You have to use lye (sodium hydroxide) with both these process. This is the soap that reacts bad to metal. These kinds of soap need at least 4 weeks to cure after being removed from the molds.

Metal and pour soap is a type that has already been made with lye & oils plus some other ingredients that makes it easy to melt in a double boiler or the microwave. You then would scent/color it as you want and pour it into molds. Its safer, faster and ready to use immediately. You can get good shampoo melt and pour base from soaping supply companies like brambleberry.com or wholesaleplus.com. Personally I don't care much for melt & pour, it leaves my skin with a weird film.

I've been using CP (cold process) shampoo bars on my hair for about a year now, I'll never go back to shampoo. Condition bars are a whole different ball game though, too complicated for me. Instead, I use apple cider vinegar rinse and occasionally a good light weight conditioner.

This is a terribly long post but I recommend you read it http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=30946& also, go to youtube and watch soaping101 videos, they are some of the best for learning how to soap.


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## snappyllama (Jan 14, 2015)

Hi James and welcome to the forum!  Soap making is a really fun hobby that gives you fantastic , lovely things you could never get in a regular store.  I had a bit of information overload when I first got started. A good resource to get down the basics is the youtube channel for Soaping 101. Her videos build on one another... so you'll want to check out the oldest first.  She mainly focuses on Cold Process soap, but has a few on Hot Process as well. Both of those are different ways to go from oil + lye to soap. Since you have access to tallow (lucky duck!), you'll probably want to focus on cold process or hot process. Reading through the beginner soap portion of this forum is a great way get a ton of information.  Without it, I'd still be thinking about making soap instead of making it! Check out the stickies there and articles... they give a bunch of beginner info!

The best place to start is with a simple recipe. Tallow + olive oil + coconut oil + castor will make a lovely soap from ingredients you can get from a grocery store/pharmacy. Personally, I'd go with something like 40% tallow, 15% coconut, 40% olive, 5% castor with 6% superfat. It's not a shampoo bar, but you'll be well served to start with a simple hand soap before venturing into more complicated ones. that recipe is just something that I would like... there are as many opinions as soapmakers on what makes a good recipe.  Play around with a lye calculator and see what seems good to you! Learn to use a lye calculator. I think most folks here use SoapCalc. There's a stickie with instructions on the forum. 

Your soap will not need any preservatives. You'll want to render the suet before using it.

Melt & Pour is buying a soap base and then scenting and decorating it. The soap part is already made for you.

You won't need any preservatives in your soap.

Please do not use metal to mold your soaps.  Lye eats through everything but stainless steel and you'd have a heck of time trying to unmold from something without give. You can use plastic containers, silicon molds, pvc pipes, or even pringles cans for molds (just make sure to remove the metal parts first and line with freezer paper - shiny side facing the soap). You can make your own wooden ones and line with freezer paper too. 

Some other things you need are eye protection (glasses do not count), gloves, a scale that weighs in grams, and a stick blender. You can mix your soap in plastic tubs - I use painters ones from the hardware store.  Just make sure that they have a 2 or 5 at the bottom so that they can withstand the heat.

And I've rambled on too much - blame the afternoon coffee that just kicked in.


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## JCsuds (Jan 14, 2015)

Thanks for your responses ! do you think she did the tin ones from re-maid soap (grinding basic soap and adding things to it ?)


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## normajean999 (Jan 14, 2015)

Hi. I'm new too.  I'm currently curing my first shampoo bar.  I found this thread extremely helpful in determining a recipe. 

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=30946


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## snappyllama (Jan 14, 2015)

JCsuds said:


> Thanks for your responses ! do you think she did the tin ones from re-maid soap (grinding basic soap and adding things to it ?)



Yes. I'm sure she wasn't putting cold process soap in one.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnPrtYUKke8[/ame]


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## Obsidian (Jan 14, 2015)

JCsuds said:


> Thanks for your responses ! do you think she did the tin ones from re-maid soap (grinding basic soap and adding things to it ?)



Yes, I would have been rebatching but thats not a fun process and isn't something I would do except to fix a mess up batch.

I think I have the same book you do, there are some good idea for herbal blends but I don't really like her techniques. Plain old cold process is much easier with less work then grating and rebatching everything.


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## JCsuds (Jan 14, 2015)

So if you could have 3 books which ones would they be ? I dont want to wast a bunch of more  money nor do I want to spend countless hours trolling around the internet trying all of these random recipies . Something that would cover beginner / to things a little more advanced also - for cold process  . I figured out last night how to use a lye calculator . I have watched several videos on soap making .... I am really wanting to make shampoo and KILL the V05 bottle :-D so something that would cover bar shampoo also


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## Obsidian (Jan 14, 2015)

I haven't found any books I actually like. The info on this forum is a lot more up to date and informative. Keep in mind that not all women can successfully switch to shampoo bars, it takes awhile to switch over and some peoples hair just won't accept it.

I would suggest you try the shampoo bar recipe in the first post of the thread I linked you too in my other post. Its simple and really nice. Are you interested in bath bars or just shampoo? For a basic bar I like 50% lard, 25% olive oil, 20% coconut and 5% castor, if you don't use animal fats, you can use palm instead but lard makes a better soap.


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## Susie (Jan 14, 2015)

This forum beats all of the soap books I have combined.  Easily.  Don't waste your money.

Do what Obsidian said.  Go watch some Soaping 101 videos, go read the shampoo bar thread.  Then we can start you on making regular bar soap before going advanced with shampoo bars.  

If you are trying to get all the females off of commercial shampoo and conditioner to save money, it won't work.  It is more expensive to buy ingredients and supplies to make shampoo and conditioner than to just buy the commercial stuff.   

If they want to start using more natural products on their hair, then they can start buying the Alba brand from Walmart.  It is reasonably priced and does not contain detergents or silicons.(And it will be a while before the soap is ready to use, then you have to make a shampoo bar that then has to cure 4-8 weeks.)


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## shunt2011 (Jan 15, 2015)

I agree with the others.  Your best reading is here on this forum as well as Soaping 101 videos.  When I first started I think I read every single post back from the beginning (seriously).  I learned so much from this forum.  I still find it an inspirational place to hang out.  A lot of really helpful, artistic and knowledgeable folks here.   So, if you can't find an answer to a question ask away.


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## lionprincess00 (Jan 15, 2015)

I watched the 4 soap queen episodes while learning to start out. It's good for beginners because she breaks it down in, like 4 or so short videos on safety
on equipment 
colorants and fragrances 
Soaping a plain bar, and soaping with colorants and fragrances 

Those and soaping 101 are great starting points for beginners. 
There's also excellent blogs out there with information I came across again and again while starting out. 

Final word of advice, steer clear of ANY soap maker that measures in cups, teaspoons, etc. Soap is made my weight, not volume! A ton of misinformation is out there, so start easy with these video recommendations. I've never made a shampoo bar, so I can't help you with that really. Good luck!!!


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## JCsuds (Jan 15, 2015)

Susie and everyone  Thanks for your responses . No I am not trying to save money . We are actually looking forward to not buying junk and putting it in our hair . And we dont shop at WALMART . Maybe ??? they a large jail facilities equip with advanced security systems two way radios and cages over all of the windows and skylights .They actually have eye   and liscence plate recognition systems in them ....  They are in every major town  and often several in a major city capable of holding thousands of people during martial law  MART LAW :shock: Enough on the conspiracy theories ...
   I dont eat pork so the thought of washing in pig fat freaks me out but I do have access to a lot of Beef suet / and tallow (I do eat burgers occasionally  ) Are shampoo bars that much more different / difficult than bar soap?Another question I have it seems like recipes everywhere do not include step by step instructions only ingredient lists are there threads regarding the cold process that I could print a shampoo recipe so that I don’t have to watch the videos while making it ? I really dont know a thing about any of this ....Thanks also for the input about books . I have bought 3 books ( I feel I have wasted my money $twelve bucks )and had about 6 more in my cart on Ebay . I will save the money and buy ingredients instead.


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## abc (Jan 15, 2015)

I went to the library and got all the soap books they had. If they didn't have it, I put it on hold. I found this forum to have much better information than any of the books!!

The Soap Queens introductional videos are good.  Watch them along with soaping101's and you should be able to figure out what to do with  he recipes you find! I also read various blogs like Lovin' Soap, Adventures with the Sage, Modern Soapmaking etc. 

I am still in the researching stage myself. I've done other bath and body projects off and on for 16 years, more frequently the last 8. I just haven't gotten the nerve up yet to try cp soap.


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## Obsidian (Jan 15, 2015)

Shampoo bars aren't any different then regular bath bars, I'm not sure why people are suggesting you make bath bars first.

Here is a basic shampoo recipe that takes 2 pounds of oils. Weigh all ingrediants

Avocado oil 4.8 ounces
castor 1.6 ounces
Olive oil 6.4 ounces
shea butter 1.6 ounces
soybean oil 1.6 ounces

Water 5.6 ounces
Lye 2 ounce

Mix the lye in cold water. Make sure you add the lye into the water, never add water to lye. The water will heat up and produce vapors. Don't breath it in and wear your safety gear. Its best to mix by a vent or outside.

While your lye is cooling down, weigh all your oils and melt them together. I use a large mixing bowl from the dollar store and melt using the microwave. Don't get the oils too hot, they only need enough heat to be completely melted.

Now wait until your oils and lye solution are around 100* F. Add your lye solution to the oils and starting mixing with a stick blender. Use short burst of the stick blender, the motors can overheat if they are ran continuously. Once the mix starts to get thick, pour it into your mold. 
If you want to use a scent, add it anytime after you mix in the lye solution but before it get too thick to pour. Make sure you use soap safe scent.

After 24 hours, unmold and slice your soap. Sit it some place where it can get good air circulation and let cure 4 weeks before using.

This is a good video to see the process. ignore the recipe and additives, just watch how the actual mixing of lye and oils work.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWnqXTqZTvU[/ame]


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## snappyllama (Jan 15, 2015)

You'll see a bunch of lard recipes on the forum, because a lot of us really like the properties it gives to soap and readily have it available. Beef tallow and lard have similar properties.  Compare them both on SoapCalc - the big difference is that beef tallow is higher in Stearic acid and lower in Oleic and Linoleic acids.  This translates to beef fat making a harder bar with higher cleansing and less conditioning/less creamy lather. I adjusted my normal lard recipe to accommodate those property differences in lard/beef tallow since you've got easy access to beef fat. As I said, this is just what I like - you may find you want a more conditioning bar and want to up the olive or change it up however you want down the line!  Like I said, it's not a shampoo bar (where I would have to worry about adjusting pH and such).  It's a nice beginner bar of soap.

40% tallow, 15% coconut, 40% olive, 5% castor with 6% superfat

The actual process for making soap is fairly simple.  Here's how I like to do it:

1. Weigh and melt solid oils. Add to soaping container.
2. Weigh liquid oils. Add to soaping container. Add and mix in any powder additives like clay.
3. Weigh water
4. Weigh and Add lye to water (never water to lye!)
5. Wait until both water and oils are within a comfortable temperature of one another.  It can be room temperature, or 90F or whatever not-too-hot temperature you want to soap at. There are upsides and downsides to this decision. During this time I like to prep my work space, colors and FO.
6. Add lye water to oils. Add FO. Add any liquid additives
7. Stick blend to emulsification 
8. Separate batch if I'm doing different colors. Add colors, hand stir. Stick blend if I need a thicker trace.
9. Pour batter into mold. Make design. I normally don't gel and live where it's cold so I just cover my mold with a bit of plastic wrap and leave it.
10. Wait until it can be unmodeled. It will be firm. This normally takes me 24-48 hours depending on the recipe.

If you watch the Soaping 101 and/or Soap Queen beginner videos and take notes, you can come up with you own instructions that work for you and how you like to do things and save the effort of reading through outdated books... I say that since I have two books that still recommended using glass containers for mixing (don't do that! use stainless or plastic with a 2 or 5) and using vinegar on spills (don't do that! - use a bunch of cool running water over them) and one only mentions a handmixer as an afterthought from hand stirring the whole thing (the arms that woman must have had!).

Good luck!


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## seven (Jan 15, 2015)

you've got great advice so far. as far as mp (melt and pour) soap for shampoo, believe it or not, i have a customer who swear by it (it was my avocado base). so, i guess, it all comes back to personal preference.

i like to give this link by soapqueen to a lot of beginners. that post helps you understand a lot about the common oils used in soapmaking. it is esp. useful, particularly if you want to formulate your own recipe.

shampoo bar is basically a cp (or hp) soap, thus it is a good idea to familiarize yourself with basic soapmaking first, before venturing into shampoo/conditioner bars.


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## Susie (Jan 15, 2015)

Reason I suggested regular soap before shampoo bars:  fewer oils, cheaper oils, less worry about pH.

Basic soap safety:

1.  Safety goggles-glasses are not enough
2.  Gloves from the time you touch the NaOH container onward until you have cleaned up.
3.  Use plastic tubs with a 2 or a 5 on the bottom.  Those will tolerate the lye and temperatures.
4.  You need a good digital scale that measures at least tenths of ounces and grams.  Don't buy a postal scale, they are not good for weighing while adding to a cup.
5.  You need silicone, plastic, or stainless utensils.  If you use silicone or plastic, plan to have a dedicated set just for soaping.  

Here is a good link to cheap equipment from the dollar stores, you may want to start haunting your local thrift stores(Goodwill/Salvation Army, etc) for stick blenders and crockpots.  It would not hurt to have some spares. 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYhH20vWxvc[/ame]


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## shunt2011 (Jan 15, 2015)

Also, you and your family may or may not be able to use shampoo bars.  There are many that are able to use them but ther are also many who can not which I am one of them my hair just does not like them.  And, they may my haircolor fade too quickly.  It's a bummer.    So, it will be a test for all of you as well.  But if they don't like them on their hair they can still be used on the body.


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## abc (Jan 15, 2015)

Since you don't shop Wal-Mart, you can check out what your local health food store has in the meantime. Everday Shea makes a shampoo that doesn't have detergents and is made from saponified shea and coconut soap. It's ways on sale at my local store for $7.99 for 32 oz. I personally don't like it because it makes my hair a giant gnarled mess, the conditioner didn't help detangle.  Ymmv. 


I like this shampoo much better, EO Essentials. I can find it at my local discount grocer for $6.99 for 32 oz.


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## JCsuds (Jan 17, 2015)

Thanks for the suggestions where to buy soap but I am hoping to make it . My girls are 10,8 and 5 years old and they are really looking forward to this .Thank you all for being so generous  with your  time  to help me with where to buy materials recipe suggestions etc. The shampoo bar  post link in this post was pretty fascinating. I am thinking that my family needs a more conditioning than cleansing bar . None of us get very greasy more dried out tangle but this may be attributed to putting junk in our hair .  
    Could someone tell me the benefits of hot/ cold process soap? it seems that some folks say that hot process produces superior soap , Is this true ? I would like to make the best soap / shampoo I can . 
     Also I guess there are various ways to render tallow (just got 100 lbs of suet Friday :grin with water ,salt, baking soda, dry , triple process  etc.... I have one of those large roasting ovens and a commercial stove and 5 gallon pots . So if there are links to threads already on these topics(I am not sure how to find them )  or any responses would be greatly appreciated  James


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## snappyllama (Jan 17, 2015)

Hot Process Benefits: You can use less FO/EOs. You can pick the oil to SF with by adding it after cook is complete. Can be ready to unmold faster. More rustic feel (at least the ones I used from other since I only CP currently).

Cold Process Benefits: Typically smoother bar, more intricate design options.  

I'm sure there are a bunch of others, but that's just what came to mind for me. 

Here's an article on rendering fat: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/Home-Tallow-Rendering-For-Soap-Making-and-Other-Uses.html


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## Admin (Feb 25, 2019)

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338413729&icep_item=264201855294


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