# Trash-Talking Vendors



## cerelife (Jul 9, 2014)

Ok, so I've sat on this file since February. I typed it up just after a visit to a market where I was doing some research on whether or not my products would be a good fit when I butted heads with one particular vendor. I was so appalled by her attitude that I created the file just so I wouldn't forget the details of our conversation. I figured that karma was  bigger than me, so I never posted it anywhere.
BUT, since I've been invited (and accepted the invitation) to participate in this market, I'm pretty sure I'll run into her again. Not really as competition - she only sells soy candles, while my main focus is CP soap but I do offer a very small line of soy candles as well. While I hate the thought that she will be out there spewing this nonsense, I don't want to sink to her level.
So if any of you kind folks could take the time to read my original file, my question is: How would YOU deal with a vendor like this? Or should I even care, since soy candles aren't my 'thing'... it just really bothers me that there are other vendors here who do market soy candles, and she's blatently trashing them!?
So here's my original file:
I was strolling through New Orleans' French Market doing a little business research back in February to see what my competition might be (not much - with the exception of three vendors selling soy candles and a couple of people selling some pretty crappy soap). So YAY on that )
But one of the vendors selling soy candles pissed me off big-time! 
And BTW: when I'm checking out other peoples' products, I rarely tell them that I make the same stuff. The only time I mention it is if I'm truly impressed with their products (I always buy some for comparison and we usually end up as friends); or in this case when someone is just being ridiculous and blatently attempting to trash-talk the competition.
While I have NO problem with selling yourself and your business by explaining why your products are different/special, I was a bit taken aback by this woman telling me (along with several other potential customers) that her soy candles were unique in that they were "100% All Natural and Organic", while other vendors were just jumping on the bandwagon and making soy candles with a lot of trash in them. She said outright that most people didn't know what they were doing. "They are just trying to make a fast buck by making candles in their kitchens without the knowledge to make true all-natural soy candles like mine." I may be paraphrasing - but those were pretty much her exact words to the best of my memory. She talked a really good game and made some sales (even though her candles were ridiculously overpriced), but after the other customers walked off, I stayed to talk to her. I thought she was completely full of ****, but I always try to keep an open mind. Despite my tons of research on everything I make, I DO realize that there's always room to learn!
This was our dialogue:
Me: So what kind of soy wax do you use?
Her: 100% soy.
Me: Yeah, I got that, but from what company? All 100% soy waxes aren't equal...I use Golden Brand 464. I like that it's pesticide and GMO-free, and sourced in the US from locally grown and processed soybeans....so what do you use?
Her: I'm not going to share that with you.
Me: Well, can you tell me what wicks you use? I prefer the ECO 10 from CandleScience for the obvious reasons you were just mentioning about the importance of them being carbon-free and made from natural fibers.
Her: Not going to tell you that either.
Me: I'm a little confused about the 'trash' you mentioned in other vendors' candles. Could you be more specific on what they use that is NOT in your candles?
Her: I don't use any chemicals, artificial colorants or additives. My candles are 100% all-natural and organic.
Me: Yeah, I WAS kind of curious about that since many of your candles seem to be scented with fragrances that to the best of my knowledge aren't available as pure organic essential oils; for example I've never seen a Magnolia essential oil? Or that King Cake candle - I'm pretty sure that scent doesn't occur in nature. So I have to assume that you're using fragrance oils... unless you've found a way to distill the scent of King Cake into an all-natural organic essential oil? Not that I have a problem with fragrance oils, I use them myself. But they ARE artificial, non-organic, chemical based scents. So...are you a complete genius who has discovered how to distill scents like King Cake into organic essential oils, or are you just shameless liar trying to boost your sales by trashing your competition?
Her: <glare> and turns her back to me.
Me: Oh, and BTW, I make my soy candles in my kitchen. Do you still want to say that I don't know what I'm doing? 
Her: Totally ignoring me
Me: Well, I guess I have my answer.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jul 9, 2014)

Fair play for keeping a lid on it instead of posting it in the heat of the moment.  Shocking tactics by this vendor, bad form all round - but more so when you consider that she is lambasting others for some things that she herself does.

But alas I think that when she realises that you are selling there too, she might well be looking to tarnish your reputation.  You might have some work there to undo any bad vibes she sends your way with out seeming negative...................


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## LunaSkye (Jul 9, 2014)

I think you humbled her for the most part (and I'm betting that you gave her some new sites to look for materials). I was wondering why you describe the other soaps as crappy, but you said it yourself that you sometimes buy products from other vendors.

To answer your question from a consumer's perspective, not sinking to her level will be the best thing you can do. A lot of people will not support a negative vendor and her prices will do little to her.

It may be a good idea to check your state's laws for libel as well since she would have to have proof of what she is saying (otherwise she may be liable for damages from the false accusations). Additionally, recording the events for the day and making complaints to the organizers of the event may be helpful.

I wish I could be more helpful, but the only thing I have done when faced with negative people at the workplace was keep doing my best while recording the wrong that was done to me by others (particularly the managers). Good luck in what ever you do.


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## Relle (Jul 9, 2014)

You asked how would you deal with a vender like this ?

 I think from the start her answers said it all with - I'm not going to share that with you and Not going to tell you that either. She had her back up from the beginning, so I wouldn't have pushed it. All in all, you can only control what you say and do and not what others do. So I would just set up your stall, talk up your product without mentioning anything about her.


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## pamielynn (Jul 9, 2014)

I will openly tell my customers about issues like "ask for proof of organic certification, if a business is claiming that" and "be aware that there is NO governing body which certifies essential oils as organic". My market manager keeps letting in people like doTerra and I hear them all day talking about how their EOs are "certified". And the MP soap lady who was claiming her soaps as "organic". Show me the proof - as a customer I'm entitled to see it before I buy.

Don't have to trash-talk anybody - just educate your own customers and passers-by.


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## Seawolfe (Jul 9, 2014)

This is just my opinion, but I think that vendor is a bully. And bullies dont like to be stood up to. They usually back down, as she did, but if they are especially insecure they might try to sneak up on you from behind - so I'd keep an eye out.

Sometimes I have problems speaking my mind, especially when someone says something outrageous - like this plastic surgeon I know suggesting that a topical application of stem cells would be beneficial (like a face cream) - I called him on that in front of a table full of people who were just nodding and smiling. Maybe its because I teach science, but I really have a problem when someone is speaking as an expert and claiming something that is patently, provably false. They are lying, and it makes me nuts.

So I'd probably be lousy at selling at a market like this


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## leapinglizards (Jul 9, 2014)

So... if I visit a vendor that does ANY of the things I do, I always introduce myself, and let them know I am a vendor as well, first thing up front.  I always make sure to do this privately and not in front of any potential customers.  I compliment them on something I can find to compliment them on, see if they are friendly or defensive to me since I am in theory "Competition."    If they are friendly, I stay and chat.  If they are not I move on.  

Occasionally I hear from customers...  well, Person A says this this and this.   And I say-  Not sure where they got their information,  My understanding is this.

I don't see anything served by arguing, bad talking or confronting others on their BS-- UNLESS I am in a managment role at a given venue.

Just my two cents.


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## navigator9 (Jul 9, 2014)

It's unfortunate that all vendors don't have stellar business practices, but there's really little you can do other than make a spectacular product yourself, and tell your customers what makes it so great. Saying anything negative about another vendor only makes you look defensive. The cream always rises to the top. If you make a great product, the word will get out and you'll do well despite your less than forthcoming competition. I'd forget about her and just enjoy yourself at the market.


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## pamielynn (Jul 9, 2014)

Oh, and by "passers-by" I don't mean accost them like our new doTerra guy and his bottle of peppermint oil spray. He's like the perfume ladies at Macy's. I was a little mean to him though, last week. Told him if he got peppermint oil in my eye, I was NOT gonna be happy. Whoops.


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## Aline (Jul 9, 2014)

I think this is pretty common (the deceptive marketing bit). I was at a swap meet and there was a vendor selling tropical scented bath salts he was claiming were scented with essential oils. I usually bite my tongue these days but he addressed me directly so I told him that there is no gardenia essential oil, to which he replied that they distill their own - at which point I just walked away. There is so much of that going on here. Even a big company here that sells $500,000 of Hawaiian Bath & Body products yearly doesn't label their products accurately (not just claiming essential oils when they are FOs but they label their lotion saying 'a proprietary blend of emollients and aloe vera'. No emulsifier, no preservatives, no INCIs. I've thought about reporting them to the FTC because I think they are influencing the entire Hawaii marketplace here into dishonest labeling....


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## seven (Jul 9, 2014)

... and sadly, a lot of people who don't make soaps/candles are clueless about things like fragrance oils, they fall into the "all natural and organic" trap easily.


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## Susie (Jul 9, 2014)

Honestly, the best thing you can do is proudly post your ingredients on your soap.  Have a list of ingredients available should anyone request them on the candles.  Do be sure to copy the labels of all organic products for proof of what you say.  Above all, do NOT stoop to her level.  You should neither state nor imply in any fashion that she is not telling the truth.  You just let your openness stand for itself.  People in New Orleans are fairly good at telling when someone is full of it.  Tourists...not so much.


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## shunt2011 (Jul 9, 2014)

I agree with some of the suggestions already given.  You can't control what others are saying about their products but you can educate and inform your customers that visit your booth on what's good about your product.   If she continues to bad mouth other vendors then perhaps the manager of the market needs to be made aware of it.  I have a smililar situation where I've been doing the same market for 3 years and this would be my 4th.  I somehow got overlooked when applications went out so I went to check out the market on their first weekend.  She had 3 other soapers there....seriously???  This is a small market not enough traffic to support 2 soapers.  She spotted me and asked why I wasn't part of it and I told her I never got a application.   She said just come on up next Saturday and you can set up she was sorry about the oversite.  Well, I balked at the idea at first then checked out the other soapers.  There was one who was loud and kind of in the other vendors faces apparently.  They begged me to come back and give her a run as they had had many people looking for me.  So, this Saturday, I'm going to go and give it a go.  I'm not afraid of healty competition and I'll stand behind my products 100%.    So, just go to the market and kick some butt.


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## leapinglizards (Jul 9, 2014)

I  do find it challenging here in my area sometimes.  I make soap, all I claim about it is that it is soap as in Florida, that is all I can claim.  YET I come across other Fl vendors who talk about all the amazing properties of their soaps.     I have a licensed mobile food concession as well.  I have ever piece of paper and follow every rule I am supposed to- yet every week am set up along side folks who are violating ALL the rules.   I COULD toss up my hands and decide to join 'em if I can't beat 'em.

Instead, I try to do what I believe is correct and right and worry about me.  In my head I am still a 7 year old, and I think the basic rules I learned as a kid about fairness and following rules are still in play MOST of the time.


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## Genny (Jul 9, 2014)

I think most of us that do markets/fairs will run into someone like this at some point or time in their careers.  The lying that these people do to sell their products is crazy.  I mean if you've got to lie about your products to make sales, then there's something wrong.


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## Aline (Jul 9, 2014)

shunt2011 said:


> I'm going to go and give it a go.  I'm not afraid of healty competition and I'll stand behind my products 100%.    So, just go to the market and kick some butt.



Good for you! Please let us know how it goes


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## pamielynn (Jul 9, 2014)

Aline, I have a girl at my market who makes her own cucumber essential oil. Yep. She sure does. I just smile and nod.


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## Spice (Jul 10, 2014)

Im with you on the trash bit, but you baited her too. Your first remark to her was the start, from that point on she was on the defense and she knew you had her. Let it go and move on. You will not change how she is, this is something she does and she will keep on doing. Dont waste your time or energy on something that will not change. I made a soap once that I didnt like, I didnt like the color it come out with, rather then stress on the dislike, I pulled out what I did like and then worked with that. Took my stress away, she stressed you and that's why you have been feeling like this since Feb. She probable doesnt even remember you.


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## cerelife (Jul 10, 2014)

Thanks to everyone for the great responses and food for thought! You've confirmed my idea to just ignore this vendor and do my own thing to the best of my ability...great products with honest ingredient lists/labels! 
@ Susie...yeah, you right! NOLA folks can suss out the BS...I'm currently making soap for my buddies at Villa Convento on Ursulines...but WTH should it smell like?? I"m playing around with a floral scent per the bordello angle, but any other ideas??
And yep, this vendor was VERY aggressive with her trash-talk and maybe it wasn't my finest moment to bait her as I did, but I despise bullies and one of my many failings is to refuse to back down when I know I'm in the right. BUT I sincerely doubt she would remember my face, and I never told her the name of my company...so no worries with her trying to sabotage me


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## pamielynn (Jul 10, 2014)

leapinglizards said:


> I  do find it challenging here in my area sometimes.  I make soap, all I claim about it is that it is soap as in Florida, that is all I can claim.  YET I come across other Fl vendors who talk about all the amazing properties of their soaps.     I have a licensed mobile food concession as well.  I have ever piece of paper and follow every rule I am supposed to- yet every week am set up along side folks who are violating ALL the rules.   I COULD toss up my hands and decide to join 'em if I can't beat 'em.
> 
> Instead, I try to do what I believe is correct and right and worry about me.  In my head I am still a 7 year old, and I think the basic rules I learned as a kid about fairness and following rules are still in play MOST of the time.



So far, at markets and shows, I find that these are the ones who fold quickly. They "break the rules", they lie and exaggerate and they go out of business because the proof is in the pudding (or soap or candles). I can see on visitors faces sometimes, that they DON'T want to hear the truth that my soap is not magical. Or that you can use a "facial" bar on any other body part. People WANT to believe all the crap that some vendors spew. BUT when they take that product home and it doesn't prove out to be a miracle, they are done and they move on. IMO it's much better to have repeat customers who value your product and ethics than to have to keep attracting new ones all the time.


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## cerelife (Jul 11, 2014)

LunaSkye said:


> ) I was wondering why you describe the other soaps as crappy, but you said it yourself that you sometimes buy products from other vendors.


Sorry LunaSkye...that comment was from my notes, and I should have edited it out before I posted 
But since I DID put this comment on a public forum, it's only fair that I clarify why I described these two vendor's soaps as 'crappy'.
Vendor 1 had soap along with a myriad of other things for sale, and every soap I picked up just smelled like 'old soap'... AND many of them had DOS.
Vendor 2 also offered soap along with many other items for sale and I honestly couldn't help but like the guy - he was a complete sweetheart! But he was slicing bars from a loaf of soap that he himself told me was only a week old...saying that he just didn't understand why the person he bought them from wanted him to wait a whole month before selling them.
I tried to explain why he really should wait, but he just laughed and said "Sugar, it's just soap and I have people wanting to buy it NOW!"


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## pamielynn (Jul 11, 2014)

"JUST soap"? Ack - my whole life is soap, LOL


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## ourwolfden (Jul 11, 2014)

She sounds very rude but I have to say I don’t fault her on not giving you the names of her suppliers.  I don’t sell soap but I come from a family of mall kiosk-ers and it was ingrained in my mind at an early age not to tell anyone where your supplies come from.  Especially today where everything is a google search away anyways I would be super hesitant.  I am surprised she didn’t talk shop with you though and the fact that she had no idea (or was pretending not to) about the differences in EO and FO.  I personally would have tried to make friends or acquaintances and maybe when you became a vendor work out a trade eventually if I liked your stuff (which I’m sure I would).  But I would not have told you where I purchased my supplies.

Hope that didn’t come crossed as rude.


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## dixiedragon (Jul 11, 2014)

I would be tempted to visit her regularly and ask in front of customers, "Where do you get King Cake essential oil?"


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## Epilepsydreams (Jul 11, 2014)

Hi I am new but with your situation and your Sig line, I had to respond. Do I feel she is going to play nice once she sees you set up? No, ugly people like that are desperate and selfish. But with you now, she will find some way to "talk" about you.Even possibly now making best buddies with the soapmakers there, to lie and trash you.

As for your quote.  My nickname is "Smiley". No matter where I go, it follows. More important tho, it has and does touch many lives.SO, NO MATTER WHAT, NOR HOW BADLY YOU "MAY" FEEL HURT......a sincere smile will prevail over all ugliness in the end. I hope she is more mature than what she has shown. Or learned from your convo. Good luck to you


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## cerelife (Jul 15, 2014)

ourwolfden said:


> Hope that didn’t come crossed as rude.


Not at all, Manda! I've worked hard on my recipes and won't share those, and honestly the only reason I shared suppliers with this person was because I was angry with her for trashing other vendors, and wanted to prove a point...not my finest moment 



dixiedragon said:


> I would be tempted to visit her regularly and ask in front of customers, "Where do you get King Cake essential oil?"


Dixie, girl...I'm gonna try to take the high road, but it IS tempting, LOL!



Epilepsydreams said:


> SO, NO MATTER WHAT, NOR HOW BADLY YOU "MAY" FEEL HURT......a sincere smile will prevail over all ugliness in the end.


Thank you for posting! My 'real' job for the past 10+ years is in Radiology as a Cat-Scan tech in a very busy hospital. It truly IS amazing what a sincere smile can mean to people. Especially if you take the time to combine that with an honest inquiry of "How can I help you/make you more comfortable/ease your fears?' Such a small thing to do, but sometimes it means a great deal to others


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## Susie (Jul 15, 2014)

cerelife said:


> Thanks to everyone for the great responses and food for thought! You've confirmed my idea to just ignore this vendor and do my own thing to the best of my ability...great products with honest ingredient lists/labels!
> @ Susie...yeah, you right! NOLA folks can suss out the BS...I'm currently making soap for my buddies at Villa Convento on Ursulines...but WTH should it smell like?? I"m playing around with a floral scent per the bordello angle, but any other ideas??
> And yep, this vendor was VERY aggressive with her trash-talk and maybe it wasn't my finest moment to bait her as I did, but I despise bullies and one of my many failings is to refuse to back down when I know I'm in the right. BUT I sincerely doubt she would remember my face, and I never told her the name of my company...so no worries with her trying to sabotage me



I don't sell soap, so take this as being from someone who does not have that experience, but when I think of floral scents that say NOLA, three come to mind first:  magnolia, gardenia, oleander.  So, I would play with those and/or rose.  Then I would go with an undertone of some sort of spice and I hate to say it, but a tiny bit of a musky scent or a _teensy tiny_ bit of patchouli to give it that hint of naughtiness.  Think of jazz music...you have the melody playing(floral) that has all your attention, but playing in the background is that brass(spice)that makes it sound sexy, and percussion(musk) that really drives where that melody is going.  Make it hit that place in your brain that says that all their wishes can come true...


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## cerelife (Jul 16, 2014)

Susie said:


> I don't sell soap, so take this as being from someone who does not have that experience, but when I think of floral scents that say NOLA, three come to mind first: magnolia, gardenia, oleander. So, I would play with those and/or rose. Then I would go with an undertone of some sort of spice and I hate to say it, but a tiny bit of a musky scent or a _teensy tiny_ bit of patchouli to give it that hint of naughtiness. Think of jazz music...you have the melody playing(floral) that has all your attention, but playing in the background is that brass(spice)that makes it sound sexy, and percussion(musk) that really drives where that melody is going. Make it hit that place in your brain that says that all their wishes can come true...


Susie, that was almost exactly what I was thinking, but you've added some really great ideas!! Thank You 
My first thoughts were Rose or Gardenia for the floral notes, and Patchouli or Nag Champa for the 'naughty' notes, with a bit of Black Pepper to add some spice. I didn't even think about Musk (and I have some!) - so I'll add that to the mix!
And what a wonderful analogy about the music - you can bet I'll have my NOLA playlist going while I play around with scents for this soap!


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## hdicreations (Jul 19, 2014)

"crappy soap?"


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## Susie (Jul 19, 2014)

cerelife said:


> Susie, that was almost exactly what I was thinking, but you've added some really great ideas!! Thank You
> My first thoughts were Rose or Gardenia for the floral notes, and Patchouli or Nag Champa for the 'naughty' notes, with a bit of Black Pepper to add some spice. I didn't even think about Musk (and I have some!) - so I'll add that to the mix!
> And what a wonderful analogy about the music - you can bet I'll have my NOLA playlist going while I play around with scents for this soap!



Honey, I have been to NOLA several times, and I can assure you that to me, the music and the feel of that city are unique, entrancing, and utterly enmeshed in my mind.  I simply can't separate out one from the other.  

Oh, yes!  Those are perfect!  I was going to say magnolia, but the FOs never seem to get it right.  Matter of fact, if one batch is a success, I would do honeysuckle and gardenia in the spring, and rose and gardenia in the fall.


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