# Looking for a recipe without coconut oil



## Traumabrew (Aug 17, 2017)

I'm looking for a coconut oil free recipe. I know that olive and palm oil can be used in high amounts, but most other oils are made 10% max. What oils can I use at higher percentages without losing hardness, cleaning and conditioning?


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## 0115d8cf (Aug 17, 2017)

You can sub palm kernel oil/flakes or babassu oil instead of coconut. They're both more expensive, though, if that's an issue.


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## toxikon (Aug 17, 2017)

Well the main thing that coconut oil provides is bubbles. If you don't care much about bubbles, you could omit it and still have a nice bar.

You could do 60% lard/tallow/palm (or a mixture + some shea), 35% olive oil/sweet almond oil/avocado oil and 5% castor. And add a bit of sugar for a bubble boost. 

Or like mentioned above, sub the coconut for babassu or PKO.


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## AngelBar (Aug 17, 2017)

In addition to using PKF (using more than 15% total in your recipe is NOT recommended),  Tallow is also an excellent substitute.


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## Zany_in_CO (Aug 17, 2017)

My favorite "No Coconut Oil" Recipe:



> BASIC PALM OLIVE (60 oz. oils yields 16 bars, 5 oz.)
> Ingredients: Palm oil or lard, olive oil, palm kernel oil.
> 
> NOTE: Run recipe through SoapCalc or Soapee before making to be sure the numbers are correct for whichever fat you use -- palm oil or lard.
> ...


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## Traumabrew (Aug 17, 2017)

I am trying to avoid coconut oil as I am finding it very drying. Will Palm kernel flakes/oil or babbassu oil also be drying?


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## jcandleattic (Aug 17, 2017)

Traumabrew said:


> I am trying to avoid coconut oil as I am finding it very drying. Will Palm kernel flakes/oil or babbassu oil also be drying?



Personally I find babassu oil to be more drying that coconut oil in higher %. (Others experiences may differ) 
I haven't found that to be the case with PKO though, and I use PKO in my recipes at at least 25%.


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## dixiedragon (Aug 17, 2017)

I think people generally find PKO (NOT the same as palm!) to be less drying than coconut.

It seems as though you find it drying, vs having a coconut allergy? I ask b/c it seems like many people who are allergic to coconut have trouble with other members of the palm family - including palm, palm kernel and babassu.

Have you tried a recipe with say, 5 or 10% coconut and a higher superfat, maybe 10% or so?


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## cmzaha (Aug 17, 2017)

While coconut will give you a harder bar it is a more soluble bar that will dissolve quicker than a bar with higher palmatic and stearic acids. I usually keep coconut in the 12-17% category with the higher % being in my men's soaps. I superfat 1-3% the lower number for soaps that have 0-5% coconut oil, which are a couple of facial bars I make. Avocado, Sweet Almond will lather some on it's own so I like them in my low percentage CO soaps. Adding sugar can also help with bubbles. One other mix I like is equal parts PKO & CO instead of all CO for you percentage requirement


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## MorpheusPA (Aug 17, 2017)

The sky's the limit!  I've made 100% lard (palm for a vegetarian substitute) bars that are absolutely lovely.  The same with 100% tallow.

Or you can add in some to a lot of olive oil for more conditioning, like a 60% lard/40% olive bar.  It may take a bit longer to cure, but it'll be really nice and gentle when it gets there.

You can also use up to about 8% castor oil in any recipe to increase the bubbles.  It'll make up for not having the coconut oil without being harsh or drying.  Castor is actually very gentle and conditioning.

Modifying one of my favorite recipes to get rid of the CO and playing around a bit would give you about 70% lard, 25% olive, 5% castor.


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## biarine (Aug 17, 2017)

Here's mine without coconut. This 1000 grams oil batch. 

40% avocado oil - 400 g
25% palm oil - 250 g
10% apricot kernel oil - 100 g
10% palm kernel oil - 100 g
10% castor - 100 g
5% Cocoa butter - 50 g

10% koh ( 90%) - 21 g
90% NaOh - 122 g
35% water - 350 g
3% fragrance - 30 g


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## ajoyforever (Aug 30, 2021)

biarine said:


> Here's mine without coconut. This 1000 grams oil batch.
> 
> 40% avocado oil - 400 g
> 25% palm oil - 250 g
> ...


Hi there - know this was from a few years ago but curious about the use of koh. It’s a solid bar, yes?


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## TennisGirl (Aug 30, 2021)

Yes. Using a small amount of KOH makes the bar lather up more easily. That's especially important when you are using low amounts of CO or PKO, which are the main bubble makers in soap.


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## The_Phoenix (Aug 30, 2021)

Traumabrew said:


> I am trying to avoid coconut oil as I am finding it very drying. Will Palm kernel flakes/oil or babbassu oil also be drying?


All three are comparable. What percentage do you typically use in your recipe(s)? Using these in your soap will only be drying if you use them in high %. Rather than use a substitute, I recommend lowering the % in your soap.


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## Arimara (Aug 30, 2021)

The_Phoenix said:


> All three are comparable. What percentage do you typically use in your recipe(s)? Using these in your soap will only be drying if you use them in high %. Rather than use a substitute, I recommend lowering the % in your soap.


Good advice but I don't think OP will see it. They definitely should have learned it by now if they kept up with soap making.


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## ResolvableOwl (Aug 30, 2021)

Coconut oil, along with palm kernel (natural or hydrogenated/flakes), babaçu, murumuru, is a *lauric oil*, i. e. high in lauric and myristic acid, and MCT fatty acids.

People who are *specifically allergic* against coconut come along with replacing CO by other lauric oils.

People who (like OP, if I understood you correctly) want to avoid lauric oils for their *drying/stripping/irritant* action, only lose time with rotating through lauric oils. Though very helpful for lathering, solubility and cleaning action, lauric oils are not necessary for a satisfactory soap experience.

The steps I care about for a non-lauric soap recipe, that still is great performing (some have already be mentioned):

Dual lye: replace 5–10% of NaOH by KOH (with adjusted amounts of course)
Use aloe vera juice or rice porridge instead of water
Add sorbitol/sugar/honey
Castor oil at 5–8%
You'll notice that, without lauric oils, the “hardness” and “longevity” numbers of soap calculators are identical. I like recipes around 25–35 of these numbers best (higher and the soap becomes too insoluble and “stone like”. Your calculator might warn you that they would be too soft (when in doubt, unmould a few hours later than usual)
You might aim around 15% linoleic acid, no less than 10%. (That's a personal quirk of me, but I found that PUFAs add a pleasant “slip” to non-lauric soaps, and their conditioning properties offset some of the stripping action of CO even with low superfat). Keep in mind rancidity issues, have your chelators and antioxidants at hand.
Balanced palmitic/stearic ratio around 1:1. Too palmitic-heavy, and the soap might not become hard enough in reasonable time; too stearic-heavy can feel chalky and is slow-lathering
ETA:


Traumabrew said:


> most other oils are made 10% max


I'm sorry? Never heard of this “rule”, and it sounds like advice given to beginners to prevent them lose time on trying to run before they can walk.
The authoritative measure for a soap recipe is the final fatty acid profile. How you end up there is secondary. There are indeed oils that qualify as base oils and others don't. But reducing the “>10% oils” to palm, olive, and coconut would make many soapers very unhappy .


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## Zany_in_CO (Aug 30, 2021)

ResolvableOwl said:


> Coconut oil, along with palm kernel (natural or hydrogenated/flakes), babaçu, murumuru, is a *lauric oil*, i. e. high in lauric and myristic acid, and MCT fatty acids.


Scientific comments like this, while helpful, makes me wonder how I got as far as I have in my 17 years of making soap. ??? I don't pay any attention to the fatty acids; for me, experience has been the best teacher. Just interested in results and learn from that. BTW, I recently tried soaping at 0% SF and adding 5% MCT oil SF just before pouring. Lovely results. Too old to change -- couldn't keep the new info in my wonky memory if I tried.  BUT. I do appreciate the effort to provide input for others. 

For those who may be reading this and are interested in a *NO COCONUT OIL* recipe, it is one of my best sellers!


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## ajoyforever (Aug 30, 2021)

TennisGirl said:


> Yes. Using a small amount of KOH makes the bar lather up more easily. That's especially important when you are using low amounts of CO or PKO, which are the main bubble makers in soap.


I appreciate that! I actually made them last night and they look lovely. Appreciate this forum very much!


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## cmzaha (Aug 30, 2021)

Using 5% KOH works well in soaps high in Stearic acid, Palmitic, or Oleic Acid soaps. I make a high Palm or high Tallow soap with HO Sunflower or Canola Oil in which I use 5% KOH. I find it helps kick up the lather faster and possibly cut the slime a little from the higher Oleic acid. I have never used 10%.


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## LynetteO (Aug 30, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> My favorite "No Coconut Oil" Recipe:


Another Zany nugget found. Thank You Very Much!


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