# One more salt question... Am I making this more complicated than it really is?  :)



## JayJay (Aug 15, 2015)

Hi everyone,

I have been reading a few salt threads and I am still a little fuzzy about how varying levels of salt effect soap. Some of the things I have read confuse me a bit. Please help me to understand by correcting the statements below and/ or answering the questions.

Things that I have read:

1. Salt decreases lather, so lots of CO is needed to  get lather. 
2. Salt bars are incredibly rich with lather. 
Question- are salt bars lathery because of the CO or because of the salt CO combo? A the salt bars more lathery than 100% CO bars or less lathery than a 100% CO soap.

3.  Salt makes the soap more mild. 
4.  Higher levels of salt make soap more drying. 
Question - Does salt really make soap  more mild or just less lathery?

5. More salt makes a harder bar.
6. Don't use iodized salt. 
7. Be mindful of the size/shape of the salt crystals because they can be sharp.
8. Individual cavity molds work best but if you decide to use a log it must be cut within 2 hours.
9. Cure time is 4 months.

I am making a batch for my hubby. He likes scrubby and lathery soap. He doesn't care about (or doesn't notice ) whether soap makes his skin dry. So given this, I want to go for the most lathery version that I can make. 

Thanks in advance for your help


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## Obsidian (Aug 15, 2015)

Question 1: both, the abundant lather is from the high coconut amount but the salt is what makes it so thick and rich.

Question 2: It seems like salt bars might be a bit more mild then my 100% coconut bars but then again, I don't use 100% coconut for my salt bars. Salt will greatly reduce lather in regular soap recipe. 

I've found that 80% coconut, 20% OO and 25% salt makes that richest lather, the more salt you add the less lather there will be. If you have soft water, you can use more salt if you wish. 
Even if hubby likes scrubby soap, use fine salt. Coarse salt isn't scrubby, its sharp and will slice the skin, I know this from first hand experience. If you want it to be scrubby, add some finely ground coffee or whatever your exfoliant of choice is.


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## not_ally (Aug 15, 2015)

From making brine soaps (more salt than regular soaps, less than salt soaps) and regular salt soaps, it does seem like salt cuts the lather, but makes it creamier.  I like brine soaps b/c I like the way they look/feel more than regular salt soaps, but I use my regular recipe (w/about 15% coconut but other lather boosters) and just add brine, so they are less lathery than others might be w/more coconut oil.  To me, it is worth the trade off so far.  Still waiting for the salt bars to cure out, though, it has only been a month or so and according to all the mavens they need at least three for a real test. 

The salt does seem to make a harder/less melty bar.

I like logs, always, and like to swirl, but keep a close eye on the log for cutting purposes, w/both brine and salt.  Often when I cut they are hard on the outside but still warm and a little soft on the inside, but if I wait for longer they get crumbly.  

You didn't ask - and I haven't used it based on wide-spread advice here - but Dead Sea salt will make the soap ooze.

If your hub does not mind drying, I would max out on CO.  I am sensitive to it so don't - and use a higher SF than most probably - but if he is a lather fan I would look for some of Irish Lasses' posts, she is as well, and a great, thoughtful soaper.


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## IrishLass (Aug 15, 2015)

JayJay said:


> 1. Salt decreases lather, so lots of CO is needed to get lather.


 
I've found this to be very true. I use 100% coconut oil in mine.



JayJay said:


> 2. Salt bars are incredibly rich with lather.


 
Much depends on your salt level, your coconut oil level, and your super-fat level as to how a salt bar will lather. Also the quality of the water you bathe in (i.e., hard or soft water) For what it's worth, 100% coconut oil salt bars with 100% salt and a 15% superfat gave me more of a foamy-type lather rather than a rich, bubbly-type lather. Lowering my superfat to 10% with the same formula gave me more of a bubbly lather rather than foamy lather. I use a totally different salt bar recipe than that nowadays that I like much better, though: 100% CO, 100% coconut milk as my water amount, 25% salt ppo and a 13% super-fat. 



JayJay said:


> Question- are salt bars lathery because of the CO or because of the salt CO combo?


 
Definitely the coconut oil. Salt is a lather inhibitor and can actually kill lather, depending how much you use. If you use a lot of salt, the soap will still lather (if you use a high amount of coconut oil), but it won't be the typical lather you get from a soap without salt. It's more of a foamy-type lather.



JayJay said:


> Are the salt bars more lathery than 100% CO bars or less lathery than a 100% CO soap.


 
I find salt bars to be much less lathery than plain 100% coconut oil soaps without the salt.



JayJay said:


> 3. Salt makes the soap more mild.


 
I have found this to be very true in my salt bars.




JayJay said:


> 4. Higher levels of salt make soap more drying.


 
I personally have not found this to be true, but everyone's skin is different in what it can tolerate/not tolerate.



JayJay said:


> Question - Does salt really make soap more mild or just less lathery?


 
For me, the answer to that question is both- it makes it more mild _and_ less lathery. 



JayJay said:


> 5. More salt makes a harder bar.


 
I've found this to be very true in my salt bars.




JayJay said:


> 6. Don't use iodized salt.


 
I use iodized salt in mine with no problems. The salts to keep away from are Epsom salts and Dead Sea salt (unless you want really weepy, mushy salt bars). 




JayJay said:


> 7. Be mindful of the size/shape of the salt crystals because they can be sharp.


 
I've found this to be true. I only like to use fine-grade in mine.




JayJay said:


> 8. Individual cavity molds work best but if you decide to use a log it must be cut within 2 hours.


 
Yes- indy-molds are great for salt bars, but if you are diligent in keeping a look-out for the gel stage after pouring your batter into a loaf mold, you can cut them fairly nicely if you unmold and cut right after they have firmed back up enough from the gel stage. I press on the top of mine to test if it's firm enough to stand up to cutting without turning to mush. The soap will still be hot, so use gloves. The amount of time it takes for a salt batch to go through gel will vary. I've had some batches firm back up from gel within 1 hour after pour and other batches that took 4 hours. I know of several soapers that cut their soap in 2 hours without really knowing if their soap went through gel or not, but for me, gel is the determining factor as to when I cut.



JayJay said:


> Cure time is 4 months.


 
This will depend entirely on you. I'm fine with using mine earlier. Although they do get even better with a longer cure (as do all soaps), my skin is fine with them at 4 weeks.


IrishLass


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## Seawolfe (Aug 15, 2015)

I'm the same as IrishLass, I start using mine at 4 weeks and am happy with them. 

You really just need to make a basic salt soap batch


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## Susie (Aug 16, 2015)

JayJay, you just need to make the soap and see how it works with how hard or soft your water is.  No one can tell you that.  Start with the lowest amount of salt that you think you ought to try, and increase it each subsequent batch.  Make small batches.  You should find your "Goldilocks" amount soon.


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## not_ally (Aug 16, 2015)

J, I made my first real round of salt bars about a month ago and made three batches, one at 80% salt, one at 50% and one at 30%.  They take so long to cure that I didn't want to wait to do them sequentially, and I figured that someone would like the ones that were not my favorites, plus I wanted to test them side by side.  Still somehow resisting testing them, although IL and Sea are tempting me


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## Seawolfe (Aug 16, 2015)

A month ago NA? Pffft give them to me - Ill test 'em!

I so rarely argue with any of the good sense that Susie shares, but I would actually start with a high salt bar and work down - or try what not_ally is doing. You may fall in love with your first batch and not move on (says the girl who keeps making 80% salt to oil weight salt bars  and cant seem to stop )


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## JayJay (Aug 16, 2015)

Thank you everyone for the detailed information and advice. I think that I have a better understanding now. I like to experiment but I think that I do better better when I base it in a theory.  I made a 25% salt batch last night for the hubby who likes lather and isn't sensitive to dryness. I will make a 100% batch next.   That should give me a good contrast. 

 Irish Lass  - I will try your recipe next.  Foamy lather sounds amazing.  And I will be very happy to test at 4 weeks.  ...but I won't hold my hopes too high. Also thanks for explaining the cutting process in more detail. 

You all rock! Thanks for the help.


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## TeresaT (Aug 16, 2015)

I just tried my salt bars this morning on my very itchy poison ivy (and my face).  It was pure heaven.  I used the salt at 25% with 100 CO and SF at 20%.  I cured them six weeks.  The lather was lovely.  Not bubbly (not my favorite) or creamy (is my favorite) but more of a foamy velvety texture (my new favorite?).  I'm definitely making more of these bars.  I'll try the same formula but a different type of salt.


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## JayJay (Aug 17, 2015)

TeresaT said:


> I just tried my salt bars this morning on my very itchy poison ivy (and my face).  It was pure heaven.  I used the salt at 25% with 100 CO and SF at 20%.  I cured them six weeks.  The lather was lovely.  Not bubbly (not my favorite) or creamy (is my favorite) but more of a foamy velvety texture (my new favorite?).  I'm definitely making more of these bars.  I'll try the same formula but a different type of salt.



Yay! Thanks for sharing. I unmolded my soaps this afternoon. I stood there in front of them imagining what they will feel like in the shower.  I sniffed them and held them in my gloved hands, grinning. This is the hardest part of soaping for me-- the patience part! But now, somehow I feel like I have tried it after reading your descriptor. 



What type of salt did you use and which will you try when you make more?


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## IrishLass (Aug 17, 2015)

They look beautiful! :clap:


IrishLass


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## Seawolfe (Aug 17, 2015)

Oh my so pretty JayJay!! How did you get that dreamy dove grey color?


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## JayJay (Aug 17, 2015)

Thanks ladies! I get so excited when I unmold! I feel like a proud mama. And the soaps are my babies. I just can't wait to use them. 

I used just a tiny bit of ultramarine blue oxide from BB.


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## shunt2011 (Aug 17, 2015)

Those turned out lovely!  I love salt bars.


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## TeresaT (Aug 17, 2015)

They are beautiful.  What salt did you use?  I used pink Himalayan, so I added just a touch of pink ultramarine to enhance the color.  I really like the color of yours and I do have some blue ultramarine in the house, although it is not BBs.


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## JayJay (Aug 17, 2015)

TeresaT said:


> They are beautiful.  What salt did you use?  I used pink Himalayan, so I added just a touch of pink ultramarine to enhance the color.  I really like the color of yours and I do have some blue ultramarine in the house, although it is not BBs.



Thanks Teresa! 

I used sea salt from Costco just because I had it on hand. It is slightly bigger sized crystals than regular table salt but still fine enough to go inside of a salt shaker. 

Did you take pics of your pink soap? I would love to see it. I bet it's pretty.


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## JayJay (Aug 17, 2015)

shunt2011 said:


> Those turned out lovely!  I love salt bars.



Thanks shunt! Something tells me that I will love salt bars too.


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## TeresaT (Aug 17, 2015)

It's just barely pink.


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## JayJay (Aug 17, 2015)

TeresaT said:


> It's just barely pink.



Ooooh, they're pretty! I love that pink color.


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## TeresaT (Aug 17, 2015)

Thanks, JayJay.  You're gonna love the salt bars.  Totally worth the wait.  This is the first batch of soap I made that I am not going to share.  I will share the next one.  Maybe.


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## Silver (Sep 1, 2015)

These salt bars sound heavenly! I must to try making a batch. I have lots of regular sea salt and I also have a bit of dead sea mud. Would adding some of the mud for color and appeal (instead of clay) to the bars be alright? Or would dead sea mud + sea salt count like using dead sea salt, which is a no-no?


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## not_ally (Sep 1, 2015)

Interesting question, Silver.  Don't know the answer, but my guess is that would be OK, I think that sea salt from the Dead Sea has certain minerals in it that make things oozy.  So regular sea salt, even in combo w/the DS mud (if it otherwise works for you - I only did it once, in a non-salt bar - and liked it) should be OK.  But just a guess.


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## umeali (Sep 1, 2015)

I never heard about salt bars before ,I tried to read the thread but still confused ,can any one tell me more about them ?or any link here? or recipe ?.Thanks in advance


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## not_ally (Sep 1, 2015)

Umeali, here's a recent, long thread about salt bars:  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=55002

The main things about these soaps is (1) using a *lot* of coconut oil in your mix - usually between 80-100% of your oil mix; (2) adding a lot of salt at trace (people vary a lot on this, between 30-100% of the weight of oils); and (3) super-fatting at a very high number, the most common is 20%, to counteract the effects of that much coconut oil, which otherwise would be very drying.

A couple of things to remember about them is that they often trace really fast once you add the salt, so you should have everything ready for your pour once you have done that, and that they will harden fast, within 1-4 hours, so have to check them often and cut as soon as it seems they are ready (read the link for that), or they will be crumbly.  Finally, although ready to use after a four week cure, these are bars which - more than most - really seem to do better after a much longer cure.

They produce a bar with a really, really nice lather and a great skin feel.

A recipe is hard because it really depends on your own skin/soaping likes, for example I only used 75% CO, and a higher SF, because I have dry skin.  I also made three batches at the same time using the same oils, but different amounts of salt in each one (30%, 50%, and 80%) because of the long cure time, I didn't want to make one, wait for 4 months, try another, wait again, etc.  I liked the 50% one the best, but others prefer more or less, you will see from the thread.  

I would post my recipe, but it is not typical because of my dry skin, and complicated because I add other additives into it (coconut milk, aloe juice, EDTA, sugar solution), and I think you would want something simpler.


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## dixiedragon (Sep 1, 2015)

Google salt bars and there are lots of threads. But they are not super complicated. The basics of a salt bar is 100% coconut with a 20% superfat. You add by weight anywhere from 50 to 100% of salt. So if you make a batch of soap that has 16 ounces of coconut oil, you will add anywhere from 8 ounces to 16 ounces of salt. The reason the bar is 100% coconut is that is the only way you will get lather, and the 20% superfat is so it won't be totally drying. Salt bars are very brittle and crumbly - you can't slice them. Individual molds are a must, in my experience. I have only done 1 batch and that was with 100% salt, so maybe with a lower amount of salt, slicing is possible.


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## IrishLass (Sep 1, 2015)

Silver said:


> These salt bars sound heavenly! I must to try making a batch. I have lots of regular sea salt and I also have a bit of dead sea mud. Would adding some of the mud for color and appeal (instead of clay) to the bars be alright? Or would dead sea mud + sea salt count like using dead sea salt, which is a no-no?


 
Silver- I've made salt bars with 100% sea salt and a little bit of Dead Sea mud before (1 tbsp. ppo), and it didn't cause me any problems. I added the Dead Sea mud in such a way that it made a really cool granite look to my soap (see if you can tell which is the soap and which is the granite:







I basically dumped the mud into my medium-thick traced batter along with my salt and gave things a haphazard whisking before pouring into my mold. I used regular sea salt in my main batter, along with a rose clay ITP swirl, and a little Hawaiian Red sea salt sprinkled on top for accent. I was trying to mimic the pink granite we have in our back yard. 


IrishLass


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## not_ally (Sep 1, 2015)

That is awesome, IL!  Good thing the actual granite is not soap shaped, a mistake would be pretty painful


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## Silver (Sep 1, 2015)

Oh, those look gorgeous IrishLass! Thanks for clearing up my concerns about dead sea mud. I am now very much looking forward to trying a hand at my own batch =)


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## shunt2011 (Sep 1, 2015)

IL that looks totally awesome!  Wowzers!!!!


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## MrsSpaceship (Sep 1, 2015)

Wow, IL, that is some amazing looking soap. It looks like something a soap carver would love to get their hands on.


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## coffeetime (Sep 1, 2015)

I make salt bars with 70% coconut oil, and a bunch of soft oils, 80% fine sea salt and 15% superfat. Not drying at all and oodles of lather.


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