# How to make 2 color soap as quickly as possible?



## petech (Mar 27, 2017)

I was looking at this 2 color soap on etsy.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/262191664/oriental-pagoda-temple-with-plum-tree

I understand they probably used melt and pour soap with a mold. I know how to make molds from a 3d printer. Right now I'm wondering what are some options on technique on how to make manufacture 2 color soap of my own design in as little time as possible? 

My initial though on how they made this soap is to drop in the white color soap first and just wait a while till it dries, then spray rubbling alcohol, then pour the blue color soap. Look at the example on etsy, it looks like so much care needs to be used to make sure the white soap does not overflow. I'm not keen on exercising that much care on making soap, I rather explore options on how to make something similar while spending as little time (and care) on it as possible. The more care I need to take, the more labor time increases, and the more costs increases. 

The most amazing part about this soap for me, is how delicate looking the white part of the soap is. 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!


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## shunt2011 (Mar 27, 2017)

I highly suggest perhaps you watch some youtube videos.  You're already selling per previous posts and it sure doesn't sound like you have much knowledge on what you are selling.   Even though it's only MP you should still know what's in your product and why.  Sorry, I don't mean to sound mean but I've gone back and read your other posts and you really need to do some research rather than asking someone to give you the technique fast.  None of us had all our information handed to us, I've been selling for years but also researched and learned how do do things and why I was doing them before I ever made my first product, then tested and perfected my craft for well over a year before selling.


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## WeaversPort (Mar 27, 2017)

petech said:


> I'm not keen on exercising that much care on making soap, I rather explore options on how to make something similar while spending as little time (and care) on it as possible. The more care I need to take, the more labor time increases, and the more costs increases.



I'm going to give you an answer that is likely to piss you off, and I accept that. If you aren't willing to put care into your craft, you aren't ever going to get good. The skills of doing beautiful things "fast" come after years of practice. Look at pottery making, painting, sculpting. It all is a combination of art, science, and repeated effort and practice. The apprentice might take twenty hours to get one decent bar of soap, that a master has the knowledge and experience to do in 30 minutes.

You might take a lot of care at this technique because you love it and are inspired by it, knowing that the care is an investment in your craft. At that point you eat the margins because you want to get good. You want to excel. You want to provide your clients and customers with a quality product that is more than a run-of-the-mill bar of soap. 

Or you don't, and that's fine.  But in that case I'd pick a technique with less attention to detail. Stay more basic. This example is going to benefit from the  knowledge of how the soap and the colorants might interact or misbehave.


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## earlene (Mar 27, 2017)

If you want to make two-color soap fast and easy, just do an In-The-Mold Swirl.  Melt your MP soap in two separate contianers.  Add different colors to each.  Pour two-handed, moving your hands a bit, so you create the swirl as your pour.  That's easy and fast.  No intricate details required.  

If you want something as beautiful as the link you included, you have to put time and effort into it.  LOTS of time and LOTS of effort.  Intricate details take intricate work, which is time consuming.


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## cmzaha (Mar 27, 2017)

^^^Well said by Susie and WeaversPort. My daughter used to do this type of detail and it is time consuming. She would carefully inject the depressions in the mold with the colors she wanted then fill in the solid color. It is quite tedious. Don't do the craft if you do not like spending the time, which is why I do not do melt and pour. I do not even have the patience to clean the edges of each piece. Once my daughter gave me hundreds of little lego men type soaps to help her clean the edges for a sizable order. My answer was, "you have to be kidding me", nope she was not and promptly handed me a clay cleaning tool. What a pain in the backside, but we did it. After that she made sure not to over-pour the little guys, making for no edges to clean


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## petech (Mar 27, 2017)

@shunt2011

Thanks for the advice. I’ve watched a lot of youtube videos already, but perhaps I haven’t seen the right ones. The ones that I have watched where there are 2 or more colors look very tedious to make. Here’s the thing about trying to make money from soap sales that is worth while, without a factory or being hyper efficient, it is hard to make any meaningful amount of sales to justify doing it full time. At $12 per hour wage, every minute is $0.20. So I spend 10 minutes on one bar of soap. That is $2 of just labor. Say I spend on average another $0.75 - $1 for materials of melt and pour soap and fragrance and coloring. That brings me to $3 approx, if I’m efficient. Say I sell to the store at $4 wholesale and they sell it at $8 retail. My net profit is now $1 if I’m lucky. Not counting the time it takes to drive to the store or to ship it out. 

My opinion, and it maybe false, is that 90% or more of soap makers don’t make any amount of money per annum that is meaningful. How I personally define meaningful is gross sales of $80k p.a. Where I expect half of that to be labor and cost of good sold. Which leaves $40k as profit. Which would equal to a low paying while collar job, depending on where one lives. 

As far as not knowing a lot of stuff, everyone needs to start somewhere. I’ve been doing this since December last year. So in 4 months, I’ve managed to sell into 8 stores local to me. It is decent, but for sure not long term viable. I’ve made about $800 in sales so far. For sure not viable long term. 80k divided by 12 months is approx $6,700 per month. I’m no where near that. 

Asking questions is to me doing research. It is one of many different methods to find answers. I have done google search, and I have watched youtube. You can see from my initial post, I obviously understand how to replicate the sample soap in question doing it the slow way. The slow way is for sure not economically viable. I spoke to a lady on the street the other day who thought $8 soap was too expensive and it should be $4. I told her, it is super difficult for handmade soap to be priced that low in a shop environment. Given that at $4 retail, the store takes $2, so there is only $2 left. 

I hear you about spending a year researching before selling your first product. For sure that is one way to do it. I’ve read opinions from other very successful people in other industries say don’t wait until it is perfect, get the minimum viable product first, launch it, and the refine as you go. 

I also had a regional big box store express some initial interest in my soap. Their buyer said I’d have to lower my retail price point to $5. Which means I would only get paid $2.50 wholesale. The talks have stalled because I wasn’t sure I could make it and earn a profit at $2.50 wholesale. I’m one person and I’m too small and I’m not efficient enough (yet). 

Nevertheless I appreciate your input!!! 

@weaversPort

Definitely not pissed off. Thanks  
I appreciate your input! 
For sure I understood this type of 2 color soap looked like it was time consuming to make. Which adds labor cost. I was hoping to figure out a way to ‘outsmart’ the labor intensiveness of it. Call it problem solving. Here’s a type of soap I like. I have a problem with what I can reasonably charge a retail price for, because I’m human and not a machine in a factory. However the factory made products have set an expectations of what things cost, so how to do I figure out how to make it more efficiently as a human? 

@earlene
About the swirl, I’ve looked into this and I have experimented with suspension melt and pour. I do like the results. I do have a problem with the ingredients that is typical. It has chemicals that enough consumers (not all) find problematic. So it is problematic to use suspension melt and pour. For example, when I pitch to shops, 1-2 out of 4 will ask is it all natural? 

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it! 

@cmzaha
Thanks for the story and feedback, it is insightful and I definitely appreciate it. 


TO ALL
In summary, I figured it was time consuming to make the soap that I referenced. But I liked it a lot. And if I could figure out how to make it fast, then I would make it, because it then makes economical sense to “me”. Problem solving is what humans do, right? In my house I have a 3d printer. It makes almost anything that I can design first on the computer, isn’t that amazing? I have a paper cutter called the Silhouette Cameo, it makes beautiful boxes for my soaps. The precision in which it can cut is beyond my scissors skills. Isn’t that amazing? I can talk to all of you via the internet, I have no idea who you are or where you live, isn’t that amazing? Following that logic, wouldn’t it be amazing if I or we could figure out how to make 2 color soaps fast? That would be a game changer!


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## Susie (Mar 27, 2017)

cmzaha said:


> ^^^Well said by Susie and WeaversPort.



Not me, but thank you for attributing it to me.  I could only hope to achieve what Shari and you have learned.  It will take me years, though.

OP-I understand you want to know it NOW.  I really do.  However, you have not developed the critical thinking skills and muscle memory that are required.


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## toxikon (Mar 27, 2017)

I think you'll find that many of us are hobbyists for that exact reason - making a livable wage just by selling soap is incredibly difficult. Especially if it's just you - if you have employees and a full range of bath and body products then you might be able to do it full-time. But it takes a lot of time and effort to get to that point.

I have to wonder - what is your big rush? You've been soapmaking since December and you've already sold product to 8 stores? I find that a bit scary. If something goes wrong with those soaps, like they develop DOS/start sweating out oils/shrink and warp/become soft in a few months, you've just lost business at EIGHT places! And you may have 8 angry shop-owners wanting refunds on soap they cannot sell.

That is why everyone recommends settling on your recipe and your suppliers and letting your bars cure for a YEAR minimum to make sure everything is A-OK before pursuing selling. And every time you try a new EO/FO, that's another period of testing you should go through. 

It's really a long process that shouldn't be rushed. It's not like jewelry-making - you're making something that is applied to skin - the largest organ on the human body. Things CAN go wrong and you can end up paying for it.


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## cmzaha (Mar 27, 2017)

Susie said:


> Not me, but thank you for attributing it to me.  I could only hope to achieve what Shari and you have learned.  It will take me years, though.
> 
> OP-I understand you want to know it NOW.  I really do.  However, you have not developed the critical thinking skills and muscle memory that are required.


OOPS, it was Shunt!!


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## Arimara (Mar 27, 2017)

petech said:


> *As far as not knowing a lot of stuff, everyone needs to start somewhere.* I’ve been doing this since December last year. So in 4 months, I’ve managed to sell into 8 stores local to me. It is decent, but for sure not long term viable. I’ve made about $800 in sales so far. For sure not viable long term. 80k divided by 12 months is approx $6,700 per month. I’m no where near that.



With this I agree but that should have been done well before you started selling anything.



PETECH said:


> TO ALL
> In summary, I figured it was time consuming to make the soap that I referenced. But I liked it a lot. And if I could figure out how to make it fast, then I would make it, because it then makes economical sense to “me”. Problem solving is what humans do, right? In my house I have a 3d printer. It makes almost anything that I can design first on the computer, isn’t that amazing? I have a paper cutter called the Silhouette Cameo, it makes beautiful boxes for my soaps. The precision in which it can cut is beyond my scissors skills. Isn’t that amazing? I can talk to all of you via the internet, I have no idea who you are or where you live, isn’t that amazing? Following that logic, wouldn’t it be amazing if I or we could figure out how to make 2 color soaps fast? That would be a game changer!



Everyone else can be as nice as they want to be about this but I'm not everyone else. I can't take someone who doesn't know when to take their time and do all the research they need and/or want so that all their cards are stacked BEFORE they pursue their goals seriously. Not as a soaper and especially not as a vendor. It's nice that you have the ability to make molds and make your own packaging yourself. It would be even nicer if you showed some sense, slow down and take the advice of soapers who have been doing this a whole lot longer than you have. I have not touched M&P soap; I lack the funds. I do know the basics how how to make two-colored candles and jellies. Sure they are not soap but the technique for both shares one common trait- the need for patience.


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## LilyJo (Mar 27, 2017)

I agree with so much that has been said and I dont feel like being nice either!

We would all like to make money NOW but we all recognise the safety aspects of what we do and the potential to cause harm - yes its only soap but in order to make that we use chemicals and skin irritants.  No matter what you might think fragrance oils are full of chemicals that people are allergic to and you need to have a better awareness of what you are doing whether that is CP, M&P or bath bombs. That means researching, testing and trialling for consistency, shelf life, deteriotaion, preervatives etc - all of these are the reasons why everyone is telling you to slow down.

I have always had my doubts about taking a year before you sell but having experienced many a weird batch of soap and bath bombs over the last two years I know you cannot rush it. You might think you have cracked it today but trust me, that recipe that seems perfect Day 1 is just as likely to do something weird on day 131 or 231 or whatever.  If you have sold that product at the very least you have an unhappy customer or retailer but at worst case you have a threat of legal action.  

I dont know where you are selling but all I can assume is that its not anywhere that is covered by EU regulations cos if you are you are breaking the law.

Assuming you are selling somewhere else - learn to make your products properly, Understand why things happen and what to do to overcome the problems. If you dont understand WHY things happen you cant understand what to do to prevent issues.

Oh and one more thing, create your own products - stop trying to copy someone elses hard work and creativity.


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## shunt2011 (Mar 27, 2017)

petech said:


> @shunt2011
> 
> Thanks for the advice. I’ve watched a lot of youtube videos already, but perhaps I haven’t seen the right ones. The ones that I have watched where there are 2 or more colors look very tedious to make. Here’s the thing about trying to make money from soap sales that is worth while, without a factory or being hyper efficient, it is hard to make any meaningful amount of sales to justify doing it full time. At $12 per hour wage, every minute is $0.20. So I spend 10 minutes on one bar of soap. That is $2 of just labor. Say I spend on average another $0.75 - $1 for materials of melt and pour soap and fragrance and coloring. That brings me to $3 approx, if I’m efficient. Say I sell to the store at $4 wholesale and they sell it at $8 retail. My net profit is now $1 if I’m lucky. Not counting the time it takes to drive to the store or to ship it out.
> 
> ...




Unfortunately, people like you are the reason so many fail. No integrity just looking to make a buck. Sorry, all you are doing is melting a base and pouring it into a mold. You want to put little or no effort into the art.  You say you've talked to successful people who told you you don't need to put a lot of time and energy into this well, I suggest you go ask them for help because you just want information handed to you. 

I'm going to leave this conversation at that.


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## petech (Mar 27, 2017)

To everyone:

I’m using melt and pour soap. I’m not doing CP soap. I don’t need a year to know how to melt the soap in the microwave and re-pour it. I’ve tried making CP soap, and yes I can tell it can take a while to figure things out, that is why I don’t go that route. Also I’ve made the judgement that CP soap making is not as friendly for making soap out of molds. 

toxikon:
For me it is mostly about the opportunity costs. My day job is that I’m photographer, I earn over $100,000 net, each year for the last several years. However, the particular photography market I’m in is cratering and that level of income I earn is unsustainable. I also have a college degree. So I can go into a white collar job and earn between $50-70K p.a. I’m having a go at making soap, because with the knowhow of making custom molds, I can create a large variety of custom soaps that no one else is making. That has the potential to make me more unique as a soap maker. If I was making the same soap as everyone else, I wouldn’t make soap. I would easily make more money sitting at a desk job. The ability to have sold into 8 stores so quickly is because I make soap they have never seen before. But I also understand the fact that I’m local to them makes my soap more desirable to them. 

Let’s go through the math. “If” I can sell $1,000 of order per store, per annum. Then to reach my target of $80k gross p.a. I need to sell into 80 stores nation wide (USA). There are 50 states. 80/50 = 1.6 stores per state. 1.6 stores per state “seems” quite plausible. If I double that and sell into 3.2 stores per state, I can now earn a gross of $160,000 p.a., which seems way more attractive. 

“If” I can personally sell an average of $1,000 per store is something that I don’t know if I can personally do it, but I understand that it can be done and that others do it. I talk to the owners of boutiques local to me. Some soaps they have in their store already do anywhere from $200-$500 per month. Which equals to several thousand dollars per year. 

Arimara:
I hear you! Thanks! I don’t need you to be nice. I was looking around for a solution that wasn’t obvious to me. Making two color soaps the SLOW way, I already knew how to do that. Making it in an cost effective fast way, that I didn’t know how to do. Remember $8 retail is $4 wholesale. Labor at $12 per hour is $0.20 per minute, not counting material costs. With such low margins, doing things the slow way is unsustainable. 

LillyJo:
I am just melting soap and re-pouring it. If people have allergies, they can read the ingredients list. I live in the USA not the EU. 

As for creating my own products, I thought all soaps look generally the same no? For sure there is a few variety, but otherwise they are al the same. And I actually do create my own products. I design custom molds. 

Shunt2011:
Why are you offended. I don’t want to make CP soap. With melt and pour, it is literally melt and pour it. I didn’t say a lot of time and energy isn’t needed. In fact I’ve spent a lot of time and energy. I work on this full time. What I did say is that quite a few very successful people suggest get the product to a minimum viable state, launch it, and then improve as you go.


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## toxikon (Mar 27, 2017)

petech said:


> toxikon:
> For me it is mostly about the opportunity costs. My day job is that I’m photographer, I earn over $100,000 net, each year for the last several years. However, the particular photography market I’m in is cratering and that level of income I earn is unsustainable. I also have a college degree. So I can go into a white collar job and earn between $50-70K p.a. I’m having a go at making soap, because with the knowhow of making custom molds, I can create a large variety of custom soaps that no one else is making. That has the potential to make me more unique as a soap maker. If I was making the same soap as everyone else, I wouldn’t make soap. I would easily make more money sitting at a desk job. The ability to have sold into 8 stores so quickly is because I make soap they have never seen before. But I also understand the fact that I’m local to them makes my soap more desirable to them.
> 
> Let’s go through the math. “If” I can sell $1,000 of order per store, per annum. Then to reach my target of $80k gross p.a. I need to sell into 80 stores nation wide (USA). There are 50 states. 80/50 = 1.6 stores per state. 1.6 stores per state “seems” quite plausible. If I double that and sell into 3.2 stores per state, I can now earn a gross of $160,000 p.a., which seems way more attractive.
> ...



I honestly think that with your skills, you could be making way more money pursuing a different venture. The simple fact is that people will not buy expensive soap, and it's very difficult to make artful, unique soap fast enough to turn a profit. 

Have you thought about making and selling soap molds instead? Soapmakers happily pay a pretty penny for good quality, unique molds. Instead of pumping out batch after batch of soap, selling each bar for $5, you could make custom high-quality molds and sell for $20+ each. I'm not sure how the material costs compare, but I have a hunch that the plastics that go into mold-making are less expensive than gallons of oils and pricey fragrances/colourants.


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## petech (Mar 27, 2017)

Toxikon:
Thanks for suggesting the idea of selling soap molds. For sure that is an idea I could explore  

Everyone:
Obviously I’ve offended quite a few of you. I not sure why. But I hear you. It wasn’t my intent to come on this forum and offend people. Typically what people do on forum is to ask questions. My goal is to figure “if” I can make an living wage off making soap. What I understand from being a relatively high earning photographer is that being efficient super important. The less time I spend on making something the more money I get to keep. Labor is a huge cost. I assume most soap makers don’t make a living wage of their work. That’s fine. I thought I had enough of a unique product offering that I would exploring seeing if I can make a living wage. If I thought for sure I could only make pocket money, I go do something else with my time. There are literally thousands and upon thousands of other people already making soap. The world does not need me making soap if I’m making the same stuff as everyone else.


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## Susie (Mar 27, 2017)

I appreciate your candor.  I also appreciate the financial situation you are in.  I get the fact that you are "only" making MP soap.  You still do not have the experience necessary to turn out a good enough product to compete with everyone else that makes soap.

The biggest problem people have with you selling soap is not actually about you selling soap.  It is far more about how you ask for advice.  I realize that you see no problem with how you asked.  However, let me present it from their side of the situation.   Someone who has only been on the forum, and making any sort of soap, a month demands that you tell them how you make the two color soap (that took you 3-4 years to get right) so that they can go into business competing with you.  Not cool.  Not cool at all.  (I do not sell, and I do not make MP, so this does not pertain to me.)

The suggestion to make molds is a valid one.  You have no idea how much molds and cutters cost.  Just go take a tour of Etsy if you really want to see where the money is.  There are thousands of soapmakers.  There are very few making molds and cutters.  You could be making money (not $100k/yr!) within a month.  AND you have all these lovely people in this forum that could happily help you figure out what is needed.


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## WeaversPort (Mar 27, 2017)

petech said:


> Toxikon:
> Thanks for suggesting the idea of selling soap molds. For sure that is an idea I could explore
> 
> Everyone:
> Obviously I’ve offended quite a few of you. I not sure why. But I hear you. It wasn’t my intent to come on this forum and offend people. Typically what people do on forum is to ask questions. My goal is to figure “if” I can make an living wage off making soap. What I understand from being a relatively high earning photographer is that being efficient super important. The less time I spend on making something the more money I get to keep. Labor is a huge cost. I assume most soap makers don’t make a living wage of their work. That’s fine. I thought I had enough of a unique product offering that I would exploring seeing if I can make a living wage. If I thought for sure I could only make pocket money, I go do something else with my time. There are literally thousands and upon thousands of other people already making soap. The world does not need me making soap if I’m making the same stuff as everyone else.



I think I can help a little with this. I think we have what my industry calls a failure to "read the room". 

First, yes.. With your particular skills and setup, making unique molds might be a better "moneymaker". I love soap molds. 

Second, yes. The bath, body and soap market is saturated. Unless you can differentiate yourself, you're going to be one of the gang. 

Third, people here are people who love soaping. Many of them are in it for the love of soapmaking, some do it as a business. People know that contributing to the forum makes this place special and unique for beginners AND advanced soapmakers. While people appreciate that we all need to "make a buck" to survive, imagine going to a forum of French chefs and without ever contributing to the knowledge; the shared passion; or science of the conversation; asking them if they can help you figure out how to mass produce French food - because you already have six customers lined up and your day job isn't sustainable.  

You're going to get some people furious with the impression that you're not aware of potential health and safety issues. Others upset because if feels like you're taking their artistry and devaluing it. A bunch will see you as a threat, because you're asking them to give their hard work and experience away.. And likely the casual hobby cooks in the metaphor will see you as a taker; here to learn the art to make a quick buck, without taking the effort to see the soul of the craft.

If you have experience with United States manufacturing, what you just asked the business person is: _how do I become China?
_
The only thing that most people heard is: _How can I cheapen what you love to do? And ultimately do it better._

While there is nothing wrong with what you're asking, I believe it is getting lost.


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## Arimara (Mar 27, 2017)

WeaversPort said:


> I think I can help a little with this. I think we have what my industry calls a failure to "read the room".
> 
> First, yes.. With your particular skills and setup, making unique molds might be a better "moneymaker".
> 
> ...



Love the French chef analogy. Many of them love what they do and I have nothing but respect for those individuals. They make their products with love and care, and all I wish I could say is "shut up and take my money!" If you're going to sell your hard work, it better be something you are passionate about.


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## cherrycoke216 (Mar 27, 2017)

You sound like a polite and straightforward person. And you do realize the economic aspect and all. And you have take everyone's opinion well. I mean, they don't sound harsh, just being practical and honest, but there will be new member hearing this and start a internet war/troll or something. :headbanging:

The real fast way is melt a one color MP and after unmold it, you paint it with a brush using rubbing alcohol and mica. This might be a little faster than using a syringe kind of thing to inject white outline and then the blue base. Because using syringe, you have to be fast enough that soap is not harden inside syringe but slow enough that make the outline clean and clear. But take my words with a grain of salt. I'm a mostly cold process soap maker and occasionally use MP as a medium in decorations.  

I think you are polite and persuasive in person, plus you have unique product to sell it to 8 stores. On the internet, people can't hear your tones so we can only guess. And toxikon is right, I will be the weirdo to pay big bucks for unique and one of a kind mod when some love the drawer as a mold. But to each his own.


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## petech (Mar 27, 2017)

@susie and @weaversport

I hear you both, you give valid critiques of me. Yes I agree I failed to ‘read the room’ properly. 

For sure if I could do it over again, I’d find a different way to ask my question. 

@arimara
I hear you, thanks! 

@cherrycoke216
Thanks for the tips about painting it with mica, that idea hadn’t occurred to me to try. And thanks for your other kinds words, I appreciate it. 

Everyone:
I like making soap as far as it is a challenge to me, as I’ve never made soap until recently, everything is new to me. Figuring things out is fun to me. I’ve learned to use 3d software, I’ve learned to use a 3d printer, I’ve learned about MP soap, I’ve learned about using a paper cutting machine, I’ve learned to design packaging on the computer and then turn it into real paper box. I’ve learned how to door knock on stores. I’ve learned what stores like and don’t like. There is a ton of stuff that I know now that I didn’t know a few months ago.  

As far as CP soap goes. There are tons of beautiful soaps out there. I’ve seen them on pinterest and youtube and in stores. I don’t think I can add value there, because I have no obvious ideas on how to make CP soaps that isn’t the same as everyone else. MP soap is very kind to custom molds, that is where I think I can add value by being unique. 

My apologies to those of you who felt I was rude in how I came on this forum and asked my question. Not my intent to make you feel uncomfortable. People who know me in real life say I don’t filter what I say before I open my mouth.


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## Arimara (Mar 27, 2017)

petech said:


> @susie and @weaversport
> 
> I hear you both, you give valid critiques of me. Yes I agree I failed to ‘read the room’ properly.
> 
> ...



Like Weaver suggested, why don't you concentrate on making molds? You could have your standard sets and if you're a good enough artist, you can branch out from that. Obviously, you enjoy being creative and having an outlet and mold making would be a better way of being unique. You'd still have to take some time to learn how much punishment your molds can take or if you could possibly use those molds for certain culinary crafts *HINT*


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## WeaversPort (Mar 27, 2017)

petech said:


> @susie and @weaversport
> 
> I hear you both, you give valid critiques of me. Yes I agree I failed to ‘read the room’ properly.
> 
> ...



I have a lot of respect for you, and how you've handled a rather rocky start to the conversation. It also takes a lot of chutzpah to start knocking on doors so early in a process! You're still (like myself) something of a soap hatchling here  

As a businesswoman in a former incarnation, I can tell you that there are people who pay good money for molds.. And might pay excellent money for custom molds if, as @Arimara points out, you've got good design skills AND they've been proven to hold up to the intensity  of cold process soap making. 

I also happen to know that people in Europe find it a challenge to access some of the stuff the US has, so there might be a rather large untapped EU market.


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## Millie (Mar 27, 2017)

Speaking of which, I'm on the hunt for the perfect medallion soap mold...


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## petech (Mar 27, 2017)

@arimara
For sure I will consider making molds for sale. Though I like to finish through with seeing if I can make selling soap a success first. “IF” I can figure it out, the number of customers for soap is many times more numerous than those looking for molds, even if each mold commands a high price. 

You mean make molds for chocolate?  Yes I thought of that and people have asked me. There is one technique that is needed in 3d printing for food molds that I am aware, of which I don’t have the skills yet. One of my friend is going to teach me later this week. I actually think the market for chocolate made out of unique molds is infinitely bigger than soap. Everyone needs to eat right? Though food has a much larger safety concern than soap too. Although I’ve already looked into chocolate, the way to go is use compound chocolate. You just melt them and pour into mold. Then I just need to figure out how to comply with my local state’s cottage kitchen laws for food safety. 

I’ve also though about making candles out of unique molds. I definitely have a skills gap in knowing how to make molds suitable for candles. Also I’ve heard candle making is apparently some what technical. 

Thank you for your input. I appreciate it.

@weaversport
Thanks for the kind words. I appreciate it.  And for sure I’ll look into mold making as a business after I’ve given soap making a good effort. 

@millie
Maybe we can talk at a future time when I’m more setup to take on mold making business  Thanks for your interest. 

Everyone:
I realize quite a few of you have gotten some awful first impressions of me. I probably deserve it. It is just my opinion, but let me say, I’ve tried harder than you think I have. A lot harder. 

Here are some photos that I took recently, showing where I am up to in my soap making progress. 

Easter themed soaps:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/23ipieh5stzl4h8/1.png?dl=0

Misc circle soaps:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/efbudvj8tb0b60i/2.png?dl=0

I designed the graphics on the computer. I then turned them into 3D molds. I then created matching paper boxes to go with each soap. I’ve traveled extensively across the USA, Australia, and Europe for my photography job the last few years. I’ve been inside many boutique stores to look at what soaps are selling. The style of soaps that I make are not common. 

I’ve put a ton of effort into getting this far. The reason is because I speculate that I “might” just have an idea that will set me apart, and allow me to earn a decent living wage from selling soap. But of cause I won’t know for sure until more time has passed. So far I’m making too little amount of money. So far it is not sustainable as a living wage. Here’s the thing though. I’m focused on making money. To make money I need to keep expenses down, which mostly means labor cost, which means doing things as quickly as possible. I thought the 2 color soap style of soap would be a good compliment to the range of one color MP soap that I make now. But for me to offer 2 color soap, I have to know how to make it super fast, otherwise I can’t offer it as I don’t think the margin is there to make it sustainable for my business. 

I have other soaps that I’ve made that I haven’t shown photos here. I current range is about around 100 now. 

My current goal is to figure out how to get into LA Mart trade show for June or July. I emailed them earlier last week but never heard back. So I think I need to be a little more persistent in getting their attention somehow. 

So for those of you who thought so lowly of me, I hope my progress photos show you a better side of me, and in the future when I will have more questions about things I don’t know, you guys might feel better about sharing any knowledge you might have that I do not yet have. Thanks!  And for the record, I do lots of google searches and I watch lots of youtube videos. Asking questions here is part of that learning process.


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## SunRiseArts (Mar 27, 2017)

petech said:


> I was looking at this 2 color soap on etsy.
> https://www.etsy.com/listing/262191664/oriental-pagoda-temple-with-plum-tree
> 
> I understand they probably used melt and pour soap with a mold. I know how to make molds from a 3d printer. Right now I'm wondering what are some options on technique on how to make manufacture 2 color soap of my own design in as little time as possible?
> ...


 

The mold is a plastic mold sold on line, not from a 3d printer, if I understood you currently. I actually have a couple of the ones she shows in her page. They are called milky way molds. 

I got mine at wholesale supply plus.

And ditto to everything others said.


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## Millie (Mar 28, 2017)

I'm sorry you stumbled on a 'hot-button' issue in your first post. I'm sure there are many people on the forum who started selling too soon and know exactly where you are coming from... and have had similar responses to their early posts! Actually, I think there is a warning in a sticky post somewhere on the forum because it happens so often.

You are correct, coming to SMF is part of the learning experience when making soap! There lots of good people here with experience and it would be wise to think about their comments before going forward with a trade show and taking on any more accounts. But you can and people do. Newbie soaps invade shops all the time (it's a big ol' pet peeve, along with soaps that are magically made out of oils... just oils). But... well, every day people are posting about things that go wrong with soap. It can happen with MP too. Scents are unpredictable over time. Your packaging is cute and marketable. But it has to be good soap too, if you want returning customers. Do your friends beg for scraps and like the soap even without the designs? Does it go mushy in the shower or weep in the summer? 

I do hope that you take the time to develop your craft and succeed.


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## Luviesmom (Mar 28, 2017)

I don't want to be Debbie Downer but I highly doubt you can make $12.00 per hour soap making. Even when I had I business for goats milk soap years ago, I didn't make minimum wage. I made more profit selling my young bucks for meat! 

It's the starving artist syndrome.  I make products because I enjoy creating, it's therapy. I spend an insane amount of time of some of my bombs. I think your Easter boxes are really cute. I think you could make more profit selling labels or soap boxes, custom printing perhaps?


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## TheDragonGirl (Mar 28, 2017)

Those soaps for sure look really nice, I'm with the others, go into mold making and you'll make good money.


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## Arimara (Mar 28, 2017)

I'm more inclined to make sugar candies than chocolate, when it occurs to me. I hate having to melt those wafers down.


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## Luviesmom (Mar 28, 2017)

Silly, Amimara! Made me laugh. Had to reread it 3x to understand. Made me feel guilty about making melt n pour hand soap for my family.  But they buy from others cause it is "pretty".


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## Arimara (Mar 28, 2017)

Luviesmom said:


> Silly, Amimara! Made me laugh. Had to reread it 3x to understand. Made me feel guilty about making melt n pour hand soap for my family.  But they buy from others cause it is "pretty".



If it's what you like, don't stop on anyone's account, mine especially. I'd love to give M&P a go but it's more cost efficient for me to make CP soap and I've already narrowed it done to what I like at least. My kid... That struggle is real.


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## earlene (Apr 2, 2017)

petech said:


> @arimara
> For sure I will consider making molds for sale. Though I like to finish through with seeing if I can make selling soap a success first. “IF” I can figure it out, the number of customers for soap is many times more numerous than those looking for molds, even if each mold commands a high price.
> <snip>
> Here are some photos that I took recently, showing where I am up to in my soap making progress.
> ...



One of your Easter soap designs is quite similar to a silicone mold I just bought recently at WalMart for under $4.00.   It is sold as a Cake Making mold.  I also bought one they sell for candy making, but am using it for soap, too.  My plan is to add the Soap Flower on top of a solid soap sometime in the future.  












I have spent much more for other molds, but am always looking for a good bargain and these were definitely a bargain in my book.

I am also always on the look out for a good car mold and a good eagle mold.  Boyish or Mannish molds are kind of hard to find, too, so I think they would really draw potential customers.


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 2, 2017)

I had a wonderful mentor my first year of soaping who encouraged and inspired me enormously.  "Paying it forward" is the best way I know of to show gratitude to her for all the help I got from that lady early on.  We all build on what has gone before. I'm not a scientist, but I know what works for me. I would be proud to help you build your business, or not, and wish you all the luck in the world... 
HTH   :bunny:​


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## petech (Apr 2, 2017)

@earlene
Those easter egg molds are awesome looking. Actually better than the ones I've made myself. So far I only know how to make flat molds. Haven't quite learned how to make curve shapes in 3D software. $4 is an amazing deal, great find! 

@zany
Do you or anyone else here know much about selling at trade shows? The LA Mart trade show is on in June and July. I saw it is around $2,000 to attend. I'm thinking paying the fee to go sometime soon. I've never been to a trade show before, so I'm not sure what to expect. Though I have seen videos online of the American's Mart in Atlanta. I'd guess the LA Mart would look something similar. At this point I have a variety of different soaps. I have packaging sort of figured out for most of my soaps. I have a website up sometime in the next week or two. My biggest fear is to go to the trade show and end up selling nothing. I've done 'okay' selling into a small batch of stores that are local to me, though recently I tried going to a neighboring state to sell and sold nothing. I quickly learned that once I'm not local to shops, they become quite a lot more picky. At the time I didn't have the nice paper packaging that I have now, and I got quite a few comments from different shops that my soaps looked too homemade for their store. So I went home and added paper packaging.


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 3, 2017)

No, I've never done a trade show, but in 2013 I had a wholesale customer who did and you remind me of her... Marilyn Konnerth of Utopia Bath, Long Island NY. You can read about her soaping journey at her website here:

https://www.etsy.com/shop/UtopiaBathLtd

She used goat milk & lanolin in her products and targeted a high end customer base, mainly the knitting community, and her packaging and prices reflect that. She did several trade shows during the year. Entry fee was $1500 and she always did well. Here's a link to one of the trade shows she did:

http://www.knittinguniverse.com/stitches/

HTH   :bunny:​


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## SunRiseArts (Apr 3, 2017)

petech, I tried to help. I told where to get the molds.  If you know how to melt and pour, which as you say is not hard to put in the microwave, two colors does not take long, and is very simple.  I will give you a direct ink for the molds, since you did not take note of my post.

Now where I disagree is that there is a lot to melt and pour than just heating the soap in the microwave.  If you need help on how to bond two colors, I can explain, but there is a gazillion videos on the tube for that.

Molds:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01953J01W/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06VV3Z7JZ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

http://www.ebay.com/itm/262844959833?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/products/wonderland-soap-mold.aspx

If you research enough online, I am sure you can find the pagoda one.


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## earlene (Apr 3, 2017)

Petech, in my youth I worked on electronic assembly lines and it has impacted some as to how I do things because I realized the efficiency of the method.  Perhaps that is what you need here in your goal to make these soaps faster.  That and some specialized equipment. 

For me, what slows me down when trying to do intricate work with soap are:
1.  Design intricacy and my lack of experience/practice doing the design (first time or not enough practice to become proficient.)
and when I want to make multiple soaps of the same design:
2.  Not enough molds on hand to allow for making more soaps of the desired design quickly (This is why I prefer multiple cavity molds when making soap that doesn't require cutting, rather than only one mold or a 3-cavity mold of a particular design.)

So, here are some ideas how to make an assembly line out of MP soap for that 2-color design you posted about:

You could try this Electric Topping Dispenser set-up:





You can purchase this from myBoelter Food Service supply online for under $200.00.

It might be perfect for keeping MP soap warm enough that you can squirt the two different colors into the molds several times before it gets too thick, then put the squirt bottle back in the warmer.  While the white warms up again, squirt the other color into multiple molds before it thickens up too much, etc.

Another less expensive option is an individual Batter Dispenser such as you see at some Hotels that serve all-you-can-eat breakfast waffles that you cook yourself:






This is only about $10.00, and releases a pre-set amount of batter with each pass, but seems it could be adaptable to soap.  Although it probably would not be as convenient as the Electric Topping Dispenser above.

You can solve the 'not enough molds on hand' issue that I face when I want to make multiple soaps of a design for which I have only one individual mold, because you can print them with your 3D printer.  And you can easily adapt a counter-top or table to an assembly line method.


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## cherrycoke216 (Apr 3, 2017)

@petech
Very pretty soap! I'm sure you have spent lots of time using 3d software trying to contemplate it.
You can search forum for "booth or trade show" for ideas.
@earlene
Very cool idea about set up an assembly line of soap production. And the electric topping dispenser &pancake batter dispenser... Very creative thinking!


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 3, 2017)

It's too late for this year, it's all sold out. But if you do get your custom soap mold business up and running, I think you could do very well at the Handcrafted Soap & Cosmetic Guild annual conference. Save $$$$ by joining HSCG -- plus there are many benefits/discounts available once you join, including reasonable liability insurance. Just a thought. Take a look...

HSCG Annual Conference

https://www.soapguild.org/conference/


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## Arimara (Apr 3, 2017)

Zany_in_CO said:


> It's too late for this year, it's all sold out. But if you do get your custom soap mold business up and running, I think you could do very well at the Handcrafted Soap & Cosmetic Guild annual conference. Save $$$$ by joining HSCG -- plus there are many benefits/discounts available once you join, including reasonable liability insurance. Just a thought. Take a look...
> 
> HSCG Annual Conference
> 
> https://www.soapguild.org/conference/



A very good thought if you want to sell soaps still.


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 3, 2017)

Arimara said:


> A very good thought if you want to sell soaps still.


??? I don't understand, Arimara. That would be like selling coal to Newcastle, wouldn't it? What am I missing.


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## Arimara (Apr 3, 2017)

Zany_in_CO said:


> ??? I don't understand, Arimara. That would be like selling coal to Newcastle, wouldn't it? What am I missing.



There's no harm in joining the guild if you're selling in general. Even an M&P soap maker can benefit from joining, as the OP is currently such. I was actually agreeing with you, in short.


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## petech (Apr 7, 2017)

@zany in co
Thanks!!!

@sunrisearts
Thanks for the tips and links, I appreciate it! 

@earlene
Thanks for the info, I can see you spent quite a bit of time for my (and hopefully other’s) benefit. I appreciate it! 

The electric topping dispenser is pretty cool idea. I’ll have to investigate it more. 

@cherrycoke216
Thanks!!!

@zany in co
I’ve thought about the soapers conference. I already have a membership because I bought the insurance. Haven’t decided if I’ll go to the conference. Was thinking I would instead put the money towards going to a tradeshow. 

@ Everyone else

What is the max $ you would pay for a custom soap mold? 

I had a long lost friend contact me on Facebook yesterday and said he wanted a surf wax mold made with a graphic of an orchid on it, he asked what I would charge to make it, plus make a packaging box for him. Basically he has seen my various FB posts over time about the progress I’ve made with my soaps, and he wanted the same thing to make a prototype for surf wax. I quoted him $150 for 2 pairs similar but different surf wax molds, one is where the orchid is indented and the other is the orchid extruded. $75 for the box design. $20 shipping to Hawaii. 150+75+20=245. Thus total for the job is $245. He agreed to my fees. Even before he agreed, I also gave him a referral to my local 3d printer store and have them quote out a potentially lower price. 

$245 is not unreasonable for white collar contract work. This friend of mine is not a soap maker. He is a white collar worker, and the surf wax is a project at his desk job funded by his company. I just don’t think the average soap maker will be willing to pay anywhere near what I’ve asked for with this guy. 

I wouldn’t accept work for hire for anything much less than the amounts I’ve asked for in this example. It is because I’m reasonably well paid from my photography job, and so I base all my time value at what I think my photography job pays me. Which means I wouldn’t make a $20 or $30 or $40 custom mold. 

Thoughts? Thanks!


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## SaltedFig (Apr 7, 2017)

Hi petech,

It looks to me that you like the design part quite a bit. Your last question - about how much a person would pay for a custom mold seems to be in the same arena. So ... the idea for you (for what it's worth) ...

Why not follow that custom mold idea, but take a step further and make forms for silicone molds. Then you get to design the form (and keep it), and the material/time costs are put into pouring and curing silicone.

One of my favourite mold designers (to look at their designs) adds to their range regulary and does spectacularly detailed soap molds that they charge about $30 to $60 for.


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## earlene (Apr 7, 2017)

I would make my own custom mold rather than pay someone else to make it.  I have seen thousands of silicone molds online for reasonable as well as a few for exorbitant prices.  I have been sorely tempted by a couple of designs I'd love to have that want $36.00 US for a single soap mold, but I simply will not pay that for a mold that can be used for only one bar of soap.  I'd rather make the mold myself.  The trouble is that I'd first have to have the master from which to make the mold.

My avatar is from a mold I made myself.  After I made the mold, and made the soap, I later felted the soap, so that's what you are seeing when you look at my avatar.  But I did make that mold and a few others.  It was fun and I even had my granddaughter help make some others because she was interested.  Since then I have purchased many little items that I'd like to make molds of, but also lost interest at least for the time being.  That hasn't stopped me from looking at new and different soap mold designs periodically.

As I mentioned before, I prefer a mold with multiple individual cavities as opposed to single cavity molds.  And I prefer silicone molds to hard plastic.  I tend to use single cavity molds for left-over batter when doing CP soap.  Even with MP, multiple cavity molds make far more sense for efficient production, so the few times I've done MP, I preferred them.  But sometimes when I want a particular design, that is all that I can find online (single cavity molds.)


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## jod58 (Jun 26, 2017)

I have a hard time with mp. It hardens so fast. Have to keep heating than loose the scent!


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## SunRiseArts (Jun 27, 2017)

jod58 said:


> I have a hard time with mp. It hardens so fast. Have to keep heating than loose the scent!


 

It depends on what you are making ....   but definitively MP needs a lot of temperature checking.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jun 27, 2017)

petech said:


> @zany in co
> ...
> I wouldn’t accept work for hire for anything much less than the amounts I’ve asked for in this example. It is because I’m reasonably well paid from my photography job, and so I base all my time value at what I think my photography job pays me. Which means I wouldn’t make a $20 or $30 or $40 custom mold.
> 
> Thoughts? Thanks!



I'm not altogether sure you're asking the right question. If you search, you'll find a thread of mine called - I think - "Pricing Time" where we discussed the "fair" value of the labor of a soap maker.  I don't think a consensus we reached, but there's food for thought there.

It feels to me like you're approaching this backwards in regards to labor cost, trying to make soap-making or mold-making fit into your definition of what you're worth based on a previous job.  Whereas it seems like the better approach would be do figure out what a soap of mold business will make _then_ decide if you want to do it.  I suspect you will find that it's not tenable. 

I'm sure it is possible to make a successful business from handicrafts, but I can't imagine a scenario where it would be possible that such a business would net you the equivalent of $20/hr for your labor to meet your $40k goal, not to mention absorbing the doubled contributions for Social Security and healthcare relative to a salaried job.

That said, however, if there IS such a market it will not be in volume.  Making thousand of the same soap won't do it because a real manufacturer could destroy your CoGS - probably by a factor of 20 - and if the market was there they'd probably already be doing it.  I think your most valuable asset is the potential customization.  Try to get "in" with wedding and event planners who would use you to create wedding or party favors.  (Would I be right in guessing that as a photographer, you might already have in-roads into this industry?)  I'm thinking of a bride and groom sitting down to pick out the designs for a soap and a box (or two for His and Hers) personalized with their initials or names, the date of the wedding, etc.  Looking through a book of beautiful photographs (that you can clearly take yourself), sniffing scent samples and handling bars of soap.  It'd be like going to a cake tasting at a bakery.  Then you can knock out that custom mold and make a few hundred for that wedding.  A couple-three thousand dollars for wedding favors is a pittance in a lot of weddings nowadays.  So with anniversaries, retirement parties, maybe birthdays.  

I could see that being something viable, but I'd bet you still won't make $20/hr doing it, unfortunately.


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## charmed47 (Jul 9, 2017)

OMG!!! What is this? I also have (oups 2) college degrees and made a lot of money... like many also surely do here... so what? That is not the point I will be the Bit..h here... I'm making soaps because I LOVE IT!!! I never calculate my time... everybody know that crafting is NOT an hourly calculating money making job! I had a big car accident that forced me to do something else in my life and you know what? I've never been happier! I do M&P because I have no space and pets so I care for them and I wanted to start my business so I DEAL with it... with my health, with my lack of space and with the fact that if estimate the time I take to do this instead of the $65/hour I used to make 8years ago... well guess what I'm way below the minimum wage!
My suggestion to you.... DO SOMETHING ELSE! This is something we do with passion and love thats it! AND when you do it this way money will come but never expect to make 60$ an hour..... another suggestion is to go back to school to do something that will pay... since this is important... We are here to help each other with tips and tricks but this soap is not hard to do... IT TAKES TIME....  well take the time and do it! Its fun and relaxing to do you never know you could like it! me? I'd rather be happy then dead .... Voilà !


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