# EOs with coumarin scent? (sweetgrass, etc)



## Dirtmonkey (Dec 22, 2010)

Does anyone know of an EO that has a strong coumarin scent, like sweetgrass and some other plants?

When I infuse herbs in oil it comes through in soap, a little bit, and seems to last a while, but it's so light that any other EO overpowers it.

Maybe it doesn't distill and I'm barking up the wrong tree, next step is searching for other kinds of extracts I guess.

I wish it weren't toxic internally and were still used in foods.

I've heard of FOs that are called something like "grass" or "hay" that probably have it, but I'd rather avoid the processed chemical blends with unknown ingredients.

Thanks!


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## soapbuddy (Dec 22, 2010)

You could use hay absolute but it's pricey.


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## Lindy (Dec 22, 2010)

Coumarin is actually a chemical part of some EO's and it is an anticoagulant so must be used with a great deal of caution.

Here is some info for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coumarin


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## Dirtmonkey (Dec 23, 2010)

I do appreciate the thought Lindy, it's good to keep in mind that nearly ALL EOs can be hazardous if misused.

From the wiki you linked to: 





> Although coumarin has no anticoagulant activity, it is transformed into the natural anticoagulant dicoumarol by a number of species of fungi



I won't be growing mushrooms in my soap 

Actually coumarin is pretty much harmless in normal exposure.  it's a natural ingredient in quite a few plants we eat regularly.  It just gets repeated a lot that it's dangerous, until everyone believes it.  It's used in flavorings and in cooking (but not legally in food in the USA for some years, due mostly to money politics- exactly like what stevia is going through now). You'd have to actually EAT a bunch of it to get the liver toxicity effect... the same amount of wintergreen oil (and probably others) and you'd be dead.  High doses of coumadin is a prescription anticoagulant, but even if I used that in soap, I doubt enough would get through the skin to have anywhere near the anticoagulant effect of a cup of tea, half an aspirin, or a beer 

I'll be using it in soap though, so as EOs go it would be completely fine.

After I posted the question, I remembered tonka beans, which fragrance is mostly coumarin.  It looks like I can find absolutes at a reasonable price, so I'll try it out.

I'll look up hay absolute too, at least to check it out.  thanks Irena.


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## Catmehndi (Dec 23, 2010)

African Bluegrass may have the scent you're looking for?
"Sweet, grass smell with slightly herbaceous base notes. It is earthy while remaining light and fresh. "


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## Dirtmonkey (Dec 23, 2010)

Catmehndi said:
			
		

> African Bluegrass may have the scent you're looking for?



I looked at that one I think... I was concerned that it was a Cymbopogon species like lemongrass and might have some of that kind of scent in common.

edit:  The New Directions website describes it as  "African Bluegrass is an aromatic gray-green grass, with a unique lemon odor. "  Maybe it was a different one you were thinking of?


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## carebear (Dec 23, 2010)

Pretty sure Cat was referring to the NDA African Bluegrass, considering that
a) she works there, and b) her description is farther down the page.  Surprised you didn't see that as you referred to the information directly below the description she quoted.


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## Dirtmonkey (Dec 23, 2010)

oops- sorry about that! 

I didn't read the whole page, I just stopped at the lemon part.


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## Dirtmonkey (Dec 23, 2010)

It looks like I contradicted myself about whether I thought it was toxic or not, too.  That's from having done more searching and reading on tonka beans after the first post


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## Lindy (Dec 26, 2010)

Dirtmonkey I can tell you as an aromatherapist that when we are working with someone who is on a bloodthinner or have a blood disorder we do not use EO's that contain coumarin because it is an anticoagulant. At the concentrations of essential oil it is there on therapeutic levels and needs to be used with respect.  Anything over 3% is considered therapeutic for seniors or people on medication.  At 5% is therapeutic  for everyone with a healthy immune system.

So if you are looking for a "grassy" scent I recommend you stick to an FO to get the strength of scent you are looking for.

Good luck with your search....


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## Dirtmonkey (Dec 26, 2010)

Thank you Lindy, and don't worry, there wouldn't be anywhere near those concentrations in my soap; and of course nearly all of that would go down the drain, and not into the body where it could be converted to blood thinners  Or are you saying that just the smell of it has an aromatheraputic, physiological effect?

I wouldn't be using a lot of it, just a little to accentuate the scent a little more than already comes through from herb-infused oils.  Lavender especially has quite a bit of coumarin- it's the only thing I can smell in soap made with lavender infused oils since there's not any lavender scent after soaping it.  It's also the most noticeable smell coming from the lavender bushes outside when the flowers dry and brown or when the frost bites them back.  The soap I made with a little over 1 tsp ppo dried _Achlys triphylla_ (vanilla leaf), and nothing else, smells of coumarin with a little spiciness like a tiny touch of cinnamon.  So it's really very small amounts I'm looking for.

As far as I've been able to find, synthetic FOs with coumarin scent are still made with coumarin.  It's just usually from a chemical source rather than plant extracts.


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## Lindy (Dec 26, 2010)

Even in a wash-off product a percentage stays on the skin and the olfactory bulbs convert the molecules which create the scent and causes a physiological reaction as.

If you're really interested in the science of essential oils a great book to pick up is Aromatherapy for Health Professionals.

Here is an excerpt from my training manual:

_Role Of Olfaction On Human Psychology

Tracing the path of essential oils through the olfactory system is fascinating and telling.  

The fragrance of an essential oil can directly affect everything in your emotional state.  

When a fragrance is inhaled, the odor molecules travel up the nose where they are trapped by olfactory membranes well protected by the lining inside the nose, then floats to the back of the nasal cavity.  Each odor molecule fits like a little puzzle piece into specific receptor cells lining a membrane known as the olfactory epithelium.  

The olfactory membranes are very tiny and well protected by the lining of the nose.  They contain about 800 million nerve endings that receive the microfine, vaporized oil particles, carry them along the axon of the nerve fibers, and connect them with the secondary neurons in the olfactory bulb.  Each one of these hundreds of millions of nerve cells is replaced every 28 days.  

We must consider the blood-brain barrier.  The walls of the tiny capillaries that carry blood around the brain are very selective.  Although tiny nutrient and oxygen molecules can pass through the capillary walls, larger molecules, including most therapeutic drugs, and blood cannot.  Aromatherapy by-passes this ‘barrier’ by going straight to the brain through the olfactory system.  The essential oil itself goes no further than the inside of the nose, but it triggers off a nerve impulse, amplified along the way, which has far-reaching repercussions.  Some of the exceptions to the blood-brain barrier rule eloquently reveal the potential power of the ‘olfactory by-pass’; for example, the sniffing of glue or cocaine.  

As airborne particles in a diffuser, their effect would be very subtle- affecting the mind via receptor cells in the nose and the olfaction bulb, and getting into the blood stream when absorbed through mucous membrane of the nose, mouth, and respiratory tract.  In the bath, essential oils work both percutaneously and through airborne matters, which generally gives much higher concentrations._ 

I hope this explains it better than I have been able...


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## judymoody (Dec 28, 2010)

This is a really interesting post that reinforces what I've been picking up on the forum over the last few months.

When I first started soaping, I vowed to stick to all EOs all the time.  But I quickly learned that sometimes artificial is better when you are dealing with scents that in their natural form don't survive the lye monster (coffee, coconut, vanilla).  Sometimes artificial is safer for humans (as in this case or for bitter almond) or doesn't threaten endangered species, etc.  I don't like to think about how real musk is obtained.   

I still prefer EOs but I'm glad I decided to branch out to FOs when there is no reasonable, safe alternative.  When my "but it's not 'natural' " bells start to go off, I remind myself that sodium hydroxide isn't 'natural' either.

That said, I'm curious what solution dirtmonkey comes up with in the end.  Keep us posted!


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## hervor (Jan 2, 2011)

This thread was a really interesting read - especially the explanation about how aromatherapy oils reach the brain.  8)


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## Traceyann (Jan 3, 2011)

Wow Lindy , thats an interesting read and Im sure the knowledge will come in handy in my nursing training, thanks for posting it


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