# lye solution master batch?



## dubnica (Sep 16, 2010)

Maybe this is a stupid question   but I read a lot here about masterbatching your lye solution but I have no clue how does that work?  If you make 50/50 solution...how do you then figure out how much of that to add to your soap so you don't end up with soap that is lye heavy?


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## IrishLass (Sep 16, 2010)

No such thing as a stupid question!   

I make a 50/50 masterbatch lye solution all the time, and it's actually very easy to figure out how much to add. This is how I proceed and the math equation that I use:

1) First, forget that you are using a 50/50 lye solution and just run your recipe through a lye calculator (like SoapCalc, etc..) as you would normally do, making sure to enter the superfat % that you would like to use and the lye concentration % that you normally like to soap at.   

2) Once the calculator shows you the normal water amount and lye amount for your batch, utilise the following simple math equation to get the proper amount of 50/50 lye solution to pour out, and the extra water amount to pour out for your batch. FYI- this specific equation only works if you are using a 50/50 lye solution, but you can apply this same exact equation to whatever lye concentration you normally use for your batches, be it a 33% lye concentration or a 40% or a 34%- or whatever %. :

The equation:

Lye amount: Take your total lye amount that the lye calculator gave you and multiply it by 2 in order to get the amount of 50/50 lye solution to pour out.

Water amount: Take your total water amount that the lye calculator gave you and subtract from it the total lye amount that the lye calculator gave you to figure out how much extra water to add.

For example, say your recipe calls for 5 oz of lye and 12 oz of water. First, you would multiply 5 by 2 to get the amount of 50/50 lye solution to measure out, which comes to 10 oz, so pour out 10 oz. worth of the lye solution.

Then, to figure how much extra water to measure out for your batch, take the 12 oz that the calculator gave you and subtract from it the total lye amount the calculator gave you (which was 5): so.... 12 minus 5 equals 7, so you would measure out 7 oz of extra water for your batch.

HTH!
IrishLass


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## dubnica (Sep 16, 2010)

Oh..simple...thanks


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## BakingNana (Sep 17, 2010)

Once you start using a 50/50 solution, you'll love it.  No more fumes (other than initial mix) and batches can be made one after the other with almost no down time.  And speaking of initial mix, don't do what I did the first time I mixed one.  I made it in the garage assuming with the door cracked open it'd be fine.  Dead of winter and freezing cold.  Mixed up a couple of pitchers' worth and covered them with plastic to cool before pouring into storage container.  My husband had some small tools, screwdrivers and such, layed out a few feet away and they all rusted instantly.  Obviously iron and not SS.  Weirdest thing I ever saw.  Luckily, he didn't care.  Powerful fumes mixing 50/50 solution.


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## heyjude (Sep 17, 2010)

Great explanation, Irishlass! I keep telling myself it would make my soaping so much easier to do this, but need to find a good container first! I do have a backload of laundry so it may be sooner rather than later.   

What a crazy tool story too!


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## safire_6 (Sep 17, 2010)

This is the first I've heard of pre-mixing lye.  Is there a post here that explains how to do it?  How much can be made ahead of time?  How long will it last?


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## oh2bejoy (Sep 17, 2010)

THANK YOU, Irish Lass!!!!   That was a very quick and simple explanation....will try that this weekend.....


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## BakingNana (Sep 17, 2010)

safire_6 said:
			
		

> This is the first I've heard of pre-mixing lye.  Is there a post here that explains how to do it?  How much can be made ahead of time?  How long will it last?



As long as it's properly stored and airtight, I see no reason why it wouldn't last a pretty long time.  Having said that though, I don't have it sitting around for a really long time.  I make 160 oz. of finished solution at a time, which fills 2 detergent bottles of the 100-oz (56 load) size.  I don't like to use detergent bottles any bigger than that, or they get unwieldy to use.  I get about 9 batches out of that using Upland 18" logs.  My business is small, so I only make about 3 batches a week.  (Except last July and August when I soaped like mad to get ready for fall craft shows.)


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## IrishLass (Sep 17, 2010)

safire_6 said:
			
		

> This is the first I've heard of pre-mixing lye.  Is there a post here that explains how to do it?  How much can be made ahead of time?  How long will it last?



It's as easy as mixing the lye and water as you would normally do, only you are mixing equal parts of lye and water together- a 50/50 solution. You can mix up as much as you have lye, water, space, and proper storage containers to store it in.   

First, you want to make sure you have lye-compatable containers with tight-fitting lids to store the solution in once it's mixed and cooled. I use cleaned out All-brand detergent bottles made of HDPE #2 plastic, which is stamped on the the underside of the containers. HDPE #2 containers are great for the job, and if you can get one with a spill-proof spout like my All containers have- all the better. 

Stay away from containers made of PETE #1 and PS #6. They are not lye-compatable. Glass is not recommended either because it will etch over time and the glass will break.

I mix my solution up along with some Tussa Silk fibers in a large Rubbermaid pitcher made of PP #5, cover, let it cool, and then pour it into my detergent bottles through a fine mesh stainless steel strainer. Then I cover tightly and store in an out-of-the-way place at room temp. until ready to soap.

I did an experiment over the spring/summer to see how long I could let some of my 50/50 lye solutiuon sit and have it still be good for soaping. So far, 5 months works great. I made the solution back in March and made 3 batches with it just last month (August). It's now cured and the soap came out as normal as if I had mixed my solution up yesterday. 

IrishLass


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## heyjude (Sep 18, 2010)

Just wondering, Irishlass, do you give the jug a quick shake or anything before you use it each time? I'm assuming a spatula wouldn't fit inside. But, maybe since it's strained you don't need to shake it?


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## IrishLass (Sep 18, 2010)

I don't think I really need to, but yes, I give it a shake just for good measure. Actually, my 'shake' is really more of a swirling-type motion.

IrishLass


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## heyjude (Sep 18, 2010)

Gotcha. Thanks!


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## Chris-2010 (Oct 11, 2010)

For simplicity and practicality, I mix up a lye supply tank at the normal concentration that will be added to the oil.  Advantages are that you control your lye solution concentration through precise weight measurements of the solid lye and the water components, and you just do this one time.  2nd advantage is that you can create larger quantities of solution and use whole 50 pound sacks of lye at a go (no residual).  A larger tank has a lower surface area to volume ratio than a smaller tank, so heat loss is slower and internal lye solution mix temperatures go higher.

Base water first.  Mix one sack AM, tank goes too hot to touch.  Give the tank all day to cool down if you need to add a 2nd sack lye, otherwise, danger of going boiling.  Trim your supplementary water for your exact concentration.  Put fans toward the tank, and let it cool all night to an approximation of room temperature for the next day.  Other than when adding water or lye or stirring, the lye tank must be capped at all times, especially when it is hot, or you will get large evaporative water loss (which will screw your lye solution concentration) and lye fumes.

And stir the lye tank!   Stir, stir, stir.


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## heyjude (Oct 11, 2010)

Sounds really interesting, but I'd never be able to mange a 50 pound sack of lye on my own and it's sounds a little scary to me to work with that large an amount at one time.  :shock: 

Sounds like a good system for you though. Must save  you a ton of time.


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## Muzhik (Oct 11, 2010)

heyjude said:
			
		

> Sounds really interesting, but I'd never be able to mange a 50 pound sack of lye on my own and it's sounds a little scary to me to work with that large an amount at one time.  :shock:



@chris-2010, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you're not working out of your kitchen, right?


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## BakingNana (Oct 11, 2010)

Muzhik said:
			
		

> heyjude said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MangoMade (Jul 26, 2017)

*Equation is confusing to me*

Hi all,

I'm very confused by the equation.

Let's say that I always use the exact same recipe, and that my calculator says it requires 119 grams NaOH to 286 grams H20 (about 41.6%).

Let's say I multiplied that by 10, so I mixed 1190 grams NaOH to 2860 grams H20, which would yield me 10 batches at 41.6%.  

Wouldn't I then just measure out 405 grams of this mix (119+286=405) for each batch of soap?  I don't understand the need to add extra water.

Thanks all.
Mango


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## Kittish (Jul 26, 2017)

If you mix your masterbatch solution at the lye concentration/water discount you regularly use, then you don't need to add extra water. Just add together your lye and water amounts from your recipe and measure out the total weight. (From your example, you would add together 119 (weight of your NaOH) and 286 (weight of your water) to get 405 which is the total amount of your premade solution you'd measure out for use.) 

If you decide to make a masterbatch of lye stronger than what you use normally for soaping (like the 1:1 mix described- equal amounts of water and lye), _then_ you'd need to add extra water to bring the lye concentration down to where you want it, using the calculation IrishLass gave to determine how much water to add.


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## beliefpatrol (Mar 30, 2018)

for those that masterbatch their lye, can the cooled lye solution be stored with sodium lactate in it, or do they add the sodium lactate right before making the soap batch?


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## shunt2011 (Mar 31, 2018)

beliefpatrol said:


> for those that masterbatch their lye, can the cooled lye solution be stored with sodium lactate in it, or do they add the sodium lactate right before making the soap batch?



I add my SL when I make the soap. I don’t think it would really matter if added when the lye is mixed.


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## Lin19687 (Mar 31, 2018)

Laundry container question.
Are you all talking about the one that has the Spout on it with the bubble button ?  Any trick to get it all cleaned out ?  I gave up trying to clean it out for recycling because it used too much water.

Is that safe to use and not deteriorate ?

I wouldn't mind having a done batch, but I am afraid of where to store it.  I guess I can in the basement


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## DeeAnna (Mar 31, 2018)

I personally would not use the container with the valve for storing lye solution. There is a gasket in the valve that prevents the valve from leaking and there's no assurance that this gasket is intended for long term exposure to NaOH. If you're determined to use that type of container, always, always store it with the valve pointing up so you're not counting on the valve to stay perfectly sealed shut. Like this --







I'd be much more comfortable using this type of container instead. It has a larger mouth so it's easier to fill as well as having a more secure and NaOH-proof closure.


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## Lin19687 (Mar 31, 2018)

@DeeAnna Thank you for the pics.  That is what I was thinking.  I didn't know they had the big bottles without that spout.

I may just use the mason jars I have with plastic wrap on it and then the top.


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## DeeAnna (Mar 31, 2018)

I strongly recommend that you do NOT ever use glass for mixing or storing lye. There is considerable evidence that strong NaOH solution etches glass and makes glass more prone to break. 

Even if you don't believe that, simply think about the consequences of dropping a glass jar versus a plastic jug. A broken glass jar with NaOH solution will be more hazardous to deal with.

There are quite a few threads about choosing safe containers to store lye solution -- check 'em out.


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## beliefpatrol (Mar 31, 2018)

shunt2011 said:


> I add my SL when I make the soap. I don’t think it would really matter if added when the lye is mixed.



ok thanks, im gonna make a lot of lye so i can be ready for a future order. i was thinking of adding the SL to each jug then storing for later, or i could just add the SL RIGHT before i make the soap. i plan on having 50-60 gallons of pre-mixed lye water and it will save a LOT of hours of prep when the times comes to make the batches.




DeeAnna said:


> I strongly recommend that you do NOT ever use glass for mixing or storing lye. There is considerable evidence that strong NaOH solution etches glass and makes glass more prone to break.
> 
> Even if you don't believe that, simply think about the consequences of dropping a glass jar versus a plastic jug. A broken glass jar with NaOH solution will be more hazardous to deal with.
> 
> There are quite a few threads about choosing safe containers to store lye solution -- check 'em out.



yes thank you, i mix the lye in PP5 containers and store them in PP2 after the solution has cooled


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## Susie (Mar 31, 2018)

I have my SL in a separate bottle, and I weigh it out when I weigh out my other ingredients.  This way I can still do the math for everything much easier.


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## Romane (Apr 4, 2018)

I have adopted this method a while ago and I found it very practical. However, this time, when I opened my jar to use my lye solution, it was like a thick jelly. I must have done something wrong, but I can't figure what. Did you ever experience something like that? Do you think my lye is still usable?


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## DeeAnna (Apr 4, 2018)

What is the temperature of your lye solution? If it's in the low to mid 60s F (15-20 C) or colder, that's the reason for the solution being thick. If this is the issue, let it warm up and it should thin out to the consistency you usually see.


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## Romane (Apr 5, 2018)

My soap lab is pretty cold these days (we have cold temperature in Québec!) and it must be the reason. Merci!


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## catche (Jan 5, 2019)

IrishLass said:


> No such thing as a stupid question!
> 
> I make a 50/50 masterbatch lye solution all the time, and it's actually very easy to figure out how much to add. This is how I proceed and the math equation that I use:
> 
> ...





IrishLass said:


> It's as easy as mixing the lye and water as you would normally do, only you are mixing equal parts of lye and water together- a 50/50 solution. You can mix up as much as you have lye, water, space, and proper storage containers to store it in.
> 
> First, you want to make sure you have lye-compatable containers with tight-fitting lids to store the solution in once it's mixed and cooled. I use cleaned out All-brand detergent bottles made of HDPE #2 plastic, which is stamped on the the underside of the containers. HDPE #2 containers are great for the job, and if you can get one with a spill-proof spout like my All containers have- all the better.
> 
> ...


ok so i do mostly HP and still love to do CP so i get the whole 50/50 mix and i get how much solution to use but then when you subtract the lye % from the water amount do you use the solution or distilled water as the extra .


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## DeeAnna (Jan 5, 2019)

catche said:


> ...when you subtract the lye % from the water amount do you use the solution or distilled water as the extra .



The extra liquid is water only. If you used more lye solution, you'd be adding too much NaOH for your recipe.

Example:
My last batch of soap called for 450 grams of 50% NaOH lye solution. 225 grams of this masterbatch solution is NaOH and the other 225 grams is water.

The TOTAL water called for is 490 grams. The soap is getting 225 grams of water from the masterbatch solution, so I need to add this much extra water to get the correct total amount of water --

Extra water = Total water - Water in 50% NaOH masterbach
Extra water = 490 - 225 = 265 grams

This extra water is just water or something that's mostly water, such as aloe or milk or beer or whatever.
No more NaOH is added -- only the NaOH that is in the Masterbatch is all that is needed.

I hope this answers your question!


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## Clarice (Feb 15, 2019)

Holy Moly - it never occurred to me to master batch lye until I saw that option on the SMF calculator and went hunting answers.  this sounds FABULOUS!

I have a Q though - I have seen many recipes that say - mix lye with oils when temperatures are within about 10 degrees of one another.  Since the lye is at room temperature if it has been premixed - do you heat it up?  

Thank you!


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## shunt2011 (Feb 15, 2019)

Clarice said:


> Holy Moly - it never occurred to me to master batch lye until I saw that option on the SMF calculator and went hunting answers.  this sounds FABULOUS!
> 
> I have a Q though - I have seen many recipes that say - mix lye with oils when temperatures are within about 10 degrees of one another.  Since the lye is at room temperature if it has been premixed - do you heat it up?
> 
> Thank you!



Nope, I rarely use warmed lye.  I master batch it or make it the day before.  Mine is always room temperature.   My oils are just warm/clear.   The temp of your lye doesn't matter.


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## Clarice (Feb 15, 2019)

HOLY MAN! Whole new door opening!  YAY!


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## Clarice (Feb 15, 2019)

OK - checking my understanding.  

If I have mixed a master batch that is a 30% concentration, and I have a recipe that calls for a 33% concentration, it is NOT a good idea to add more lye to the master batch.  True or False

Is that why you make a 50/50 super batch - as you can always dilute, but not easy to make stronger? 

Thanks!


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## jcandleattic (Feb 15, 2019)

That's why I make 50/50. Because I don't always use the same concentration. Most the time I do, but sometimes I need a lower or higher concentration and it's just easier to add the amount of additional liquid I need for each particular soap I'm making.


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## Clarice (Feb 15, 2019)

Just played with the SMF calculator

Have my Masterbatch set at 1:1 (50% lye concentration) and for a random recipie I plugged in, set the lye concentration at 30%.  The calculator tells me:

Lye Mix  XXX grams
Additional Liquid XXX grams 

In other words - the calculator does the work FOR me that @IrishLass described in an early post in this thread!

So very helpful!


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## jcandleattic (Feb 15, 2019)

Clarice said:


> Just played with the SMF calculator
> 
> Have my Masterbatch set at 1:1 (50% lye concentration) and for a random recipie I plugged in, set the lye concentration at 30%.  The calculator tells me:
> 
> ...


Yep, that's how I have my SMF set up too. Love it.


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## Clarice (Feb 15, 2019)

So I could choose the "additional liquid" to be milk, tea, whatever, right?

Does the fact that the lye is at room temp mean it is less likely that milk would scorch?


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## jcandleattic (Feb 15, 2019)

Clarice said:


> So I could choose the "additional liquid" to be milk, tea, whatever, right?
> 
> Does the fact that the lye is at room temp mean it is less likely that milk would scorch?


Yes, and yes...

And you can add that additional liquid directly to the oils without adding it to the lye solution first, which will help even more with not scorching anything.


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## Clarice (Feb 15, 2019)

OMG  HORIZONS!  I see possibilities ahead!  Jumping around the room!  

Whoo Hoo!

Does anybody know if milk gallon bottles will work (plastic). I cannot find the PP number on it?  Is there a way to test? 

Thanks


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## shunt2011 (Feb 15, 2019)

@Clarice No, not thick enough nor the right kind of container.  I use a laundry soap container like shown in a previous post.


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## Cal43 (Feb 15, 2019)

I’m dizzy, this master batching talk got my head spinning. But it all good. I’m learning lots! Thanks ladies and gentlemen!


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## Clarice (Feb 15, 2019)

Hot Dawg!  I have just discovered my gallon white vinegar containers - of which I have many as I use for cleaning - say HDPE on the bottom - that triangle with the 2 in it! super thick like detergent bottles (which i don't use!  I use Charlie's Soap Powder) so I was flummoxed for a bit!  YAY


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## Cal43 (Feb 15, 2019)

Clarice said:


> Hot Dawg!  I have just discovered my gallon white vinegar containers - of which I have many as I use for cleaning - say HDPE on the bottom - that triangle with the 2 in it! super thick like detergent bottles (which i don't use!  I use Charlie's Soap Powder) so I was flummoxed for a bit!  YAY


I have one also!! Yay


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## IrishLass (Feb 15, 2019)

You're going to love masterbatching! If you're anything like me, you will never look back with a wistful eye to the days of mixing your lye fresh for each batch.

I like to use the HDPE laundry bottles that have the no-spill spout. It catches any lye dribbles and directs them back into the bottle.


IrishLass


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## Clarice (Feb 15, 2019)

I may just have to go buy some laundry detergent just for the spout!  I can see how that would be super helpful!  Thanks!


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## Cal43 (Feb 15, 2019)

IrishLass said:


> You're going to love masterbatching! If you're anything like me, you will never look back with a wistful eye to the days of mixing your lye fresh for each batch.
> 
> I like to use the HDPE laundry bottles that have the no-spill spout. It catches any lye dribbles and directs them back into the bottle.
> 
> ...


Are you referring to the bottle that was posted in the previous post?


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## IrishLass (Feb 15, 2019)

Cal43 said:


> Are you referring to the bottle that was posted in the previous post?


 
If you're talking about the one with the valve/gasket....no.  Mine looks like this: https://www.thriftyfun.com/Reusing-Laundry-Detergent-Bottles.html

*Edited to add *Thought I should mention that I always use the bottles from unscented detergent as opposed scented, because I don't know how much of the scent sticks around.


IrishLass


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## Cal43 (Feb 15, 2019)

IrishLass said:


> If you're talking about the one with the valve/gasket....no.  Mine looks like this: https://www.thriftyfun.com/Reusing-Laundry-Detergent-Bottles.html
> 
> *Edited to add *Thought I should mention that I always use the bottles from unscented detergent as opposed scented, because I don't know how much of the scent sticks around.
> 
> ...



Thank you, that’s a good  suggestion.


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## Clarice (Feb 16, 2019)

So I made my master batch last night out on the back patio - - - and it should be cool by this AM

So - Q - making a soap with heavy cream

I have seen recipes that say freeze the cream pre mixing with the lye - I am assuming that with a master batch, since it is at room temperature, I don't have to do that - right?

I understand that I WILL need to prevent it from overheating once in the mold so as to prevent scorching - so I can pop the mold into the freezer.

Thanks!


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## TwistedRabbitCreations (Feb 16, 2019)

Just be aware that if you use a 50:50 master batch and dilute it to a lower percentage it will heat up when you add the additional water. Mine heats up to about 125 which works great for me.


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## steffamarie (Feb 16, 2019)

When I use my 50/50 masterbatch, I add my other liquid directly to the oils because I often use coconut milk. I bought a heavy #5 plastic pouring pitcher from Walmart with a screw-on lid and a spout that snaps shut to keep air from getting in and messing with my solution. I LOVE using masterbatch and I find that I make more soap when I have things just ready to go. My next adventure is going to be masterbatching oils, but I need to do some research to find a good storage solution for that. Once I get that accomplished, the possibilities are endless! SO much soap to be made, and it can happen so quickly!


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## earlene (Feb 16, 2019)

As we get older, lifting and pouring any liquid from a large container becomes more uncomfortable.  For some, it even becomes completely unwieldy.  I thought I'd mention that in case anyone here has reached a time in their life that the challenge of lifting and pouring a gallon of anything is more than you want to consider when that liquid is a 50% lye solution.

If any of you order your lye from Essential Depot (a few times a year they have a really good sale and no shipping charges, making it a good deal), the bottles their NaOH comes in are perfect for storing your 50% lye solution.  And they are small enough that lifting and pouring is not as much a challenge for arthritic or weaker hands.  PLUS, they are already labeled as Lye, so all I have to so is add a note about it being 50% concentration & I put the date I made the solution on the masking tape (my own added label) as well.  AND the lids are quite secure with a child-lock type closure, making it even safer if it gets knocked over.  Although I have never tested it by knocking it over.

When I make my MB, I usually fill about 2.5 - 3 of those ED bottles, which originally hold 2 pounds of lye crystals.  The containers are recycle #2, so perfectly safe for storing lye solution.


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## jcandleattic (Feb 16, 2019)

Clarice said:


> So I made my master batch last night out on the back patio - - - and it should be cool by this AM
> 
> So - Q - making a soap with heavy cream
> 
> ...


You can gel a cream soap, you just don't want it to overheat. Milks/creams tend to heat on their own so you normally don't have to force gel, but then you run the risk of partial gel.


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## Susie (Feb 17, 2019)

earlene said:


> As we get older, lifting and pouring any liquid from a large container becomes more uncomfortable.  For some, it even becomes completely unwieldy.  I thought I'd mention that in case anyone here has reached a time in their life that the challenge of lifting and pouring a gallon of anything is more than you want to consider when that liquid is a 50% lye solution.
> 
> If any of you order your lye from Essential Depot (a few times a year they have a really good sale and no shipping charges, making it a good deal), the bottles their NaOH comes in are perfect for storing your 50% lye solution.  And they are small enough that lifting and pouring is not as much a challenge for arthritic or weaker hands.  PLUS, they are already labeled as Lye, so all I have to so is add a note about it being 50% concentration & I put the date I made the solution on the masking tape (my own added label) as well.  AND the lids are quite secure with a child-lock type closure, making it even safer if it gets knocked over.  Although I have never tested it by knocking it over.
> 
> When I make my MB, I usually fill about 2.5 - 3 of those ED bottles, which originally hold 2 pounds of lye crystals.  The containers are recycle #2, so perfectly safe for storing lye solution.



That's exactly what I use, and exactly why I do it.  I am short, and my shoulders are not what they used to be.  Those 32 oz bottles are perfect.  And I saved a bunch.  I have the contents labelled on the top of the "shoulder" of the bottle, that way, if you are looking down into a tote of supplies, you know instantly what it is.


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## Cathie at Tigercreek (Feb 18, 2019)

Susie said:


> That's exactly what I use, and exactly why I do it.  I am short, and my shoulders are not what they used to be.  Those 32 oz bottles are perfect.  And I saved a bunch.  I have the contents labelled on the top of the "shoulder" of the bottle, that way, if you are looking down into a tote of supplies, you know instantly what it is.


Always makes me smile to see that someone else is doing exactly the same thing I am doing that I thought was a brilliant original idea.


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## Cal43 (Feb 18, 2019)

When you master match lye, do I just pour out what you need according to recipe or do I need to add extra water at times. I read the entire thread, but I’m not sure about this part.


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## shunt2011 (Feb 18, 2019)

Cal43 said:


> When you master match lye, do I just pour out what you need according to recipe or do I need to add extra water at times. I read the entire thread, but I’m not sure about this part.



If mixing a 50/50 batch you will need to add the additional liquid amount either to your lye/water mix or to your oils (which I do always).


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## DeeAnna (Feb 18, 2019)

Cal43 said:


> When you master match lye, do I just pour out what you need according to recipe or do I need to add extra water at times. I read the entire thread, but I’m not sure about this part.



It depends. Sorry, I know you are looking for a black and white answer, but there isn't one.

If you make your lye masterbatch at the 50% concentration that most of us do AND you want to make soap with a less concentrated lye, yes, you will have to add extra water. The extra liquid is needed to dilute the masterbatch to the concentration you need.

If you make your lye masterbatch at whatever concentration you use for soap making, then no, you would not add extra water. The masterbatch contains all the water required.


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## Clarice (Feb 18, 2019)

when you enter your recipe into the SoapmakingFreinds calculator (LOVE IT) you click "master batch" and the Water:Lye ratio at which you have made your master batch  at the top.  Then, in the lye section, you input the lye concentration you wish to use - say 33%. 

NOTE - I make my master batch lye solution at a 50% concentration, or a 1:1 water:lye ratio - be sure to put in the ratio at which you made your master batch.

When it calculates your recipe - it will tell you how much additional liquid you need.  See (poorly drawn  ) circles below.  I just threw in 100% olive oil at 500 grams oil weight for illustration.  for this - the calcuator tells me to take 128...gms of my master batch, plus 64...gms of additional liquid - as I input a 33% concentration.  Watch the numbers change as you change your concentration.

LOVE this calculator!


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## Cal43 (Feb 18, 2019)

THank you ladies, I’m so excited and still so afraid. This journey is awesome and you ladies and gentlemen are the best! Thanks again



Clarice said:


> when you enter your recipe into the SoapmakingFreinds calculator (LOVE IT) you click "master batch" and the Water:Lye ratio at which you have made your master batch  at the top.  Then, in the lye section, you input the lye concentration you wish to use - say 33%.
> 
> NOTE - I make my master batch lye solution at a 50% concentration, or a 1:1 water:lye ratio - be sure to put in the ratio at which you made your master batch.
> 
> ...



What would you consider a good beginning point for 50:50 solution. I was wondering if a gallon would be good?


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## Clarice (Feb 18, 2019)

I started with less than a gallon of distilled water cuz I only had one 1-gallon storage container at the time.  I think I used about 2/3 to 3/4 of a gallon of water.  What I did NOT do was confirm for my next batch how much concentrate it made - I can just tell you it fit into my 1-gallon container!  If you make notes on yield for a 50% concentrate solution - or if someone else has - would be super to know!


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## earlene (Feb 18, 2019)

Clarice said:


> I started with less than a gallon of distilled water cuz I only had one 1-gallon storage container at the time.  I think I used about 2/3 to 3/4 of a gallon of water.  What I did NOT do was confirm for my next batch how much concentrate it made - I can just tell you it fit into my 1-gallon container!  If you make notes on yield for a 50% concentrate solution - or if someone else has - would be super to know!



The weight should be double what your water started out as, Clarice.  But that doesn't really tell you the volume.  So looking up DeeAnna's info on the subject, she says, "Lye solution can weigh up to 1 1/2 times more than the same volume of water" therefore you can use an algebraic equation (I'll leave that up to you) to determine how much volume you end up with.  (How to determine weight by volume of a solution: https://sciencing.com/calculate-wv-weight-volume-5092442.html)

When I add 997 grams of NaOH to 998 grams of water, I get 1988 grams of solution after evaporation (from the heat produced and the resulting vapor rising into the air).  I then add back in 6 grams of water to make sure the solution is 1994 grams total that I want.  This is from my notes of when I first made Masterbatch lye. (It was the easiest one to find because it's the one I go back to when I want to refresh my memory of how I make it.)  But I do not determine the volume because for me it doens't matter.  I have more than enough empty lye containers to use and never need to fill more than 3 of said containers (Essential Depot lye NaOH containers are what I use.)

To determine how much solution will fit into your one-gallon container, you need to know the weight of your solution.  I don't use a one-gallon container, so can't be much help on that score experientially, but here goes.  64 ounces = 1814 grams.  The 50% lye solution can weigh up to 1.5 x 1814 grams, but you only want 1814 grams of solution since the volume of your container is limited to holding that amount.

I would say if you start out with 1360 grams of water and add 1360 grams of NaOH, the resulting solution it should fit into that one-gallon container.  But you should double check the math to be sure before testing out my calculations.  Also make sure the weigh the solution and add back in any water that evaporated off.


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## DeeAnna (Feb 18, 2019)

1 gallon of water weighs roughly 8 pounds and 1 gallon of 50% masterbatch solution weighs roughly 12 pounds. Divide the 12 pounds by 2 to get the weight of water and the weight of dry NaOH you need to fill the jug -- 6 pounds of each. I underfill my lye jug for safety -- it's much harder to pour without spilling from a jug that's brim full than it is to pour from a container that has a little room at the top.

I also want to caution folks that making a large jug of NaOH solution might be too much of a good thing. You don't want the container you pour from to be too heavy for safety and comfort.

One way around having to pour from a jug is to use a jug with a dispensing spigot. If you go that route, be _absolutely certain_ the materials in the spigot are rated for use with concentrated NaOH. Most seals inside spigots you see in consumer products are _not _alkali resistant. If possible, I also recommend storing a jug with the spigot facing up so there's no liquid against the spigot in "storage mode." Set the spigot facing down only when you want to dispense.


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## IrishLass (Feb 18, 2019)

I make only enough 50/50 solution that will get me through about 7 or 8 (1lb to  2.8lb) batches of soap, which for me calls for 2lbs 4 oz NaOH. The solution fits nicely in my detergent bottle w/pour spout, and is light enough for me to handle and pour without issue.


IrishLass


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## Clarice (Feb 18, 2019)

I am switching to the detergent pour spout - too many drips from my gallon vinegar bottle!  and I like the idea of half way full - good safety tip!


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## Cosmo71 (Aug 16, 2020)

Making a note for myself to come back to this thread. I am making 5 batches of soap on Saturday and master batching would save me a lot of time. I was seriously going to make up 5 batches of lye water but this sounds much easier. Irish Lass you are a gem!


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## Susie (Aug 22, 2020)

Cosmo71 said:


> Making a note for myself to come back to this thread. I am making 5 batches of soap on Saturday and master batching would save me a lot of time. I was seriously going to make up 5 batches of lye water but this sounds much easier. Irish Lass you are a gem!



Masterbatching is truly a game changer when you know you are going to be making a lot!

I used to take one afternoon to masterbatch before making soap.  Get my big stainless steel pot out and masterbatch the oils, then masterbatch the lye.  Then divide it out per batch.  I used my leftover lard buckets to mix soap in, so I would just go ahead and weigh out the oils to have them ready to go and put the lid on.  That way, on soaping day, just put the oils in the microwave, heat them up and stickblend the lye and additives in (I masterbatched my sugar, aloe juice, and EDTA also).  Then color and pour.  All done.  5-7 batches of soap done in the time it would take me to make one batch the long way.


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