# Rancid Smell



## robcarr (Jun 23, 2017)

Hi!
I am new to soap making. I am doing the hot process soap making.
I have done three batches but all have come out with a rancid smell.
What am I doing wrong?:headbanging:


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## Kittish (Jun 23, 2017)

First thing, you should share the recipe you're using so the experienced folks on here can see if that's part of your trouble. 

Have you checked your oils and butters? If one of them has gone rancid it should be tossed and replaced. Can't undo rancid oil. My next thought would be to check the temps you're soaping at. Too hot and you can scorch your oils, which might also result in a rancid smell. Third thought would be to ask what else you're putting in your soap- colorants, fragrances, etc. Lots of soap add ins smell pretty funky while the soap is cooking.


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## Obsidian (Jun 23, 2017)

Any chance you are using animal milks?


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## robcarr (Jun 26, 2017)

Thank you for your prompt answers and please, excuse my lateness in replying to your posts.
I am using 15 oz of organic coconut oil, 10 oz of castor oil, 6 oz olive oil, 5 oz stearic acid, 8 oz sugar, 5 oz of water, 4 oz glycerin, 5 oz soda, 12 oz of water and 7.5 oz 80% proof vodka. Superfat at 7%. 
Fragrance is Rosemary. Nothing else.
I am using a crock pot at Hi temperature but it does not heat more than 160-170 F.
Thank you for your help.


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## milky (Jun 26, 2017)

I don't know anything about HP soaps so I'm really curious to see what the more experienced soapmakers here have to say. Compared to what I know about CP, a couple things stand out to me about your recipe: unusually high percents of castor and coconut oils, a lot of sugar, a lot of non-oil liquid, and the inclusions of stearic acid, glycerin, soda (baking soda?), and vodka. Maybe that's common for HP? Also, are you measuring by weight or volume? Is this a recipe you got from somewhere? What are your goals for the soap?


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## cmzaha (Jun 26, 2017)

What are you trying to make, a transparent soap, or a liquid soap paste? I am also not sure what the soda is you mentioned above. This is not a regular hp soap, so I am guessing a transparent soap which will come out smelling different that normal cp or hp soap, but to me not a rancid smell


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## dixiedragon (Jun 26, 2017)

From the sugar and vodka, I think he is trying to make clear soap?

Rosemary fragrance - does this bottle say 100% rosemary essential oil. NOT 100% rosemary oil. 

If it is a synthetic fragrance - where did you get it? Is it specifically CP safe?


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## robcarr (Jun 26, 2017)

Thank you all for your answers!
what I meant for soda is sodium hydroxide.
I was trying to make a big batch (14 to 15 - 4 oz soap bars)
And yes, I was trying to make transparent or translucent hp soap.


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## dixiedragon (Jun 26, 2017)

The sugar and the vodka could cause problems, but I don't think the soap smelling rancid is one of them. Is it possible the sugar burned?

My money is still on the fragrance, though.


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## Arimara (Jun 26, 2017)

If you're new to soap making, one of the most foolhardy things to do is to make a big batch of soaps. If every batch was the same size as this one and they all smell rancid, you wasted a lot of time and resources as that is 45 bars of bad-smelling soap you're better of tossing.

Also, where did you get your recipe from and why would you want to make a clear soap without even having a deeper working knowledge of successfully making a 1lb batch of soap? That in many respects is asking for avoidable trouble.

Lastly, are you familiar with soap calculators? Anyone who has made a clear soap before may have to correct me but that recipe is awfully cleansing and extremely hard. I don't know if you would really enjoy that soap.


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## robcarr (Jun 26, 2017)

Thank you Arimara, you are right. I will try making a 1lb batch. I did use a soap calculator and it came out with a 45% conditioning, 59% bubbles, 52% hardness, 52% cleaning, 49% persistence, 57% drying and a 58% solubility factors. I learned my lesson.
Thanks again!


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## penelopejane (Jun 26, 2017)

robcarr said:


> Thank you Arimara, you are right. I will try making a 1lb batch. I did use a soap calculator and it came out with a 45% conditioning, 59% bubbles, 52% hardness, 52% cleaning, 49% persistence, 57% drying and a 58% solubility factors. I learned my lesson.
> Thanks again!



Overheating is probably the cause of the smell.
Try a 1 pound batch but keep the temp as low as possible.


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## earlene (Jun 26, 2017)

When did you notice the rancid smell?  During the cook?  Or later?

How fresh were your oils to start with?  Did you buy them brand new for this soap, or were they already in your kitchen and possibly old?  I made the mistake when I first started soaping, of using oils sitting around my kitchen for an undetermined length of time.  I thought it would be okay to use up old oils that I didn't really like cooking with. I had even done a search and found a site with instructions how to 'clean' rancid oils and take away the rancidity using a salt bath.  Well I can attest to the fact that it *does not work* to remove all rancidity in case anyone is ever tempted to try this.  The soap made with that 'cleansed' oil still developed DOS and (dreaded orange spots) and eventually turned the soap orange and the  rancid smell in the soap was quite horrible as the DOS spread throughout  the bars.  

It was a learning experience, but I could have certainly used my time and resources more wisely if I had only known what a wasted effort that was.


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## robcarr (Jun 26, 2017)

Hi Earlene!
I noticed the smell during cooking and after. My oils were fresh. Just purchased them. I am going to try one more time but this time with a smaller amount of oils.
I am going to keep an eye on temperatures. That might be the problem.
Thanks for your prompt reply!!


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## cmzaha (Jun 26, 2017)

Arimara said:


> If you're new to soap making, one of the most foolhardy things to do is to make a big batch of soaps. If every batch was the same size as this one and they all smell rancid, you wasted a lot of time and resources as that is 45 bars of bad-smelling soap you're better of tossing.
> 
> Also, where did you get your recipe from and why would you want to make a clear soap without even having a deeper working knowledge of successfully making a 1lb batch of soap? That in many respects is asking for avoidable trouble.
> 
> Lastly, are you familiar with soap calculators? Anyone who has made a clear soap before may have to correct me but that recipe is awfully cleansing and extremely hard. I don't know if you would really enjoy that soap.


I happen to make a very gentle lovely clear soap, but do not use alcohol and do add in some surfactants and use propylene glycol as part of the solvents. 

Making clear soap is a different animal than making regular cp or hp soap. I really enjoy the process of making transparent soap but since it is not a great seller I do not make a lot of it. Mine is made with Avocado as one of the oils and it is lovely, but is not really a m&p, just transparent


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## Millie (Jun 26, 2017)

It couldn't hurt to sniff your bottles, including the essential oil, just in case. I once bought a rancid oil. It happens


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## Saranac (Jun 26, 2017)

I've tried making transparent soap with ethanol a few times, but the smell of the soap mixed with alcohol is something I just can't stand.  If your ingredients smell fine on their own, I'm thinking it could be that combo.  Do you smell it before adding the alcohol?  Also, there's a lot of coconut in there.  In solvent-heavy soaps, I tend to stick with 30%.  My nose is sensetive to the smell of (I think) lauric acid.  High percentages of coconut oil in soap (and small amounts in leave-on products) smell bad to me--very acrid.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 27, 2017)

First of all, good for you if you made 3 batches of transparent soap and your only problem is "it smells rancid"! LOL Well done! Pics please.

Transparent soap is one of the first soaps I made when I first started soapmaking back in 2004. This formula looks fine to me but I needed to reorganize your information in order to make sense of it. (See SoapCalc Sheet attached below.) I've not tried any of the latest approaches online today, so I would be very curious to know how you processed this soap? Link please, if it's not too much trouble. 

I'm somewhat concerned that you used 80-proof vodka, i.e., 40% alcohol by volume. Normally recipes call for at least 80% alcohol by volume for successful transparency.  I use 190 proof Everclear. Since your oils were fresh, and you soaped at 160-170, for the "rancid" smell I'm wondering if perhaps you used an inferior brand of fragrance oil? Rosemary has a unique scent that could very well smell "off" depending on whose fragrance oil you used.





HTH   :bunny:​


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## Nao (Jun 27, 2017)

Is it possible that you haven't made/used handmade soap before and is mistaking the soap smell for rancid smell? I know I thought my soaps smelled wierd when I just started making soap even though there wasn't anything wrong with them.


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## Seawolfe (Jun 27, 2017)

Is your added fragrance a proper, reliably sourced soap-safe essential or fragrance oil? I had one early batch smell really bad because I used what I thought was tea tree essential oil, but it was just "tea tree oil" which absolutely did not work.


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## swisspensch (Jun 29, 2017)

Seawolfe said:


> Is your added fragrance a proper, reliably sourced soap-safe essential or fragrance oil? I had one early batch smell really bad because I used what I thought was *tea tree essential oil, but it was just "tea tree oil"* which absolutely did not work.



That caught my attention!

Do you mean "tea tree" versus "tea tree oil"?

I thought the two "tea tree oil" and "tea tree essential oil" were the same thing and Wiki would agree.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_tree_oil


> Tea tree oil (TTO), also known as melaleuca oil or ti tree oil, is an *essential *oil with a fresh camphoraceous odor



Is Wiki wrong? Am I wrong?


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## kchaystack (Jun 29, 2017)

It will all depend on the supplier.  Some will sell essential oils that are cut with various carrier oils that do not play well in soap.  That is why you have to be really thorough in researching the company you buy from


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## ilovebathing (Jun 29, 2017)

I'm not sure as well what could have caused rancidity in your soap, are you using "fresh" ingredients which I'm sure you are.  Or where you live how the items are stored?  I'm about to purchase a room temp gauge to make sure my oils are in their respective temps.  Sugar to me sometimes cause issues, perhaps using sodium lactate versus sugar first?  I know that the qualities in sugar is suppose to help with bubbles/lather and it's also good for your skin, however you've got castor oil for that as well.  All I can say is, good luck and hopefully you will try a smaller batch next?


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## MySoapyHeart (Jun 29, 2017)

swisspensch said:


> That caught my attention!
> 
> Do you mean "tea tree" versus "tea tree oil"?
> 
> ...



Hi there : )

Some refer to Tea Tree essential oil _as _Tea Tree oil - but it is indeed the same thing. Even Mr. Robert Tiserand refers to it as such.  But kchaystack is right, adulterated oils do happen. 

If you find well known and trusted suppliers they usually has good feedback from returning customers if their products are good. Reviews are helpfull. They say there is more Tea Tree oil available than there is the actual material of which it can be collected, so there is no doubt a lot of tampering going on for profit.

You have something that is called _Tea Seed _oil too, it has nothing to do with Tea Tree oil, but is an edible oil that also can be used in cooking. It also called Camelia Oil. Just mentioning it because I know there are some confusion out there about that and Tea Tree oil.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 29, 2017)

I was also going to mention tea seed oil (Camellia sinensis). It's the oil from tea plants -- meaning the tea that you drink -- but is sometimes confused with tea tree oil (Melaleuca alternifolia) essential oil due to "tea" in both of the common names. Camellia oil is not an essential oil. It has a saponification value, so you would treat it as a normal soaping fat if used in soap.


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## cmzaha (Jun 29, 2017)

ilovebathing said:


> I'm not sure as well what could have caused rancidity in your soap, are you using "fresh" ingredients which I'm sure you are.  Or where you live how the items are stored?  I'm about to purchase a room temp gauge to make sure my oils are in their respective temps.  Sugar to me sometimes cause issues, perhaps using sodium lactate versus sugar first?  I know that the qualities in sugar is suppose to help with bubbles/lather and it's also good for your skin, however you've got castor oil for that as well.  All I can say is, good luck and hopefully you will try a smaller batch next?


The OP is making translucent soap. Sugar and castor are used as part of the solvent system


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## Seawolfe (Jun 29, 2017)

Aaand that's exactly why I bought the "tea tree oil" in a tiny bottle from Trader Joe's. And got some really really nasty soap out of it. If it doesn't say "essential oil" from a reliable source - don't buy it!



swisspensch said:


> That caught my attention!
> 
> Do you mean "tea tree" versus "tea tree oil"?
> 
> ...


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## dixiedragon (Jun 29, 2017)

swisspensch said:


> That caught my attention!
> 
> Do you mean "tea tree" versus "tea tree oil"?
> 
> ...


 
I think that the word "essential oil" has meaning (legally speaking) and "oil" doesn't. So a product that is artificially scented with lavender in a mineral oil base can be "lavender oil" but not "lavender essential oil".


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