# Need to Vent!



## lpstephy85 (Nov 15, 2014)

Today, the DH and I worked out booth at a craft show. We had never done this one but from the application it sounded like it would be a nice one. It was juried as I had to send in photos and wait to be accepted. It is a two-day event (my first two-day one) so I will have to be back tomorrow.

The reason I need to vent, and maybe someone who has been through this can give some advice is that on the application it said as quoted from the application: "Original Handcrafted items will be accepted. Manufactured and imported items will not be considered. No resellers of commercially produced products that can be purchased in a store or through a distributor or products sold commercially through a vendor or wholesaler. No computers will be allowed except for the purpose of point of sale payments. Booths containing items not matching the approved application will be asked by management to remove items up to and including removal from the show without refund."

So, this morning we walked in to see: Avon, Perfectly Posh, and Scentsy. Theses all effect my sales and W
everyone is going to go to Scentsy vs. me because they are commercialized as well as Avon. 

My mom who will be with me tomorrow suggested I talk to the organizer and take a copy of the application to them and ask why though it says they wouldn't accept those they did and ultimately ask for a partial refund of my booth fee. I am a very passive and introverted person when it comes to situations like this.


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## PinkCupcake (Nov 15, 2014)

I'm not great at confrontation, but I would certainly speak up! You were misled about the nature of the show. I have looked at the soaps in your Etsy shop, and they are beautiful. Personally, I would be angry at having those products compared to Avon and Scentsy.


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## Luckyone80 (Nov 15, 2014)

Oh I would so talk to the organizer about it, they are totally breaking their own rules and its not fair. I went to several craft fairs last month in hopes of seeing and buying products from individuals that made their products. For the most part I was happy with most of the ones I attended but a couple really got me b/c out of all the vendors maybe only a handful had products that they actually made themselves. I don't think its fair to call them a "craft fair" but  then turn around and allow commercial vendors, it goes against the whole point. I can buy that commercial crap anywhere but I have to attend the fairs to find the local artists, that is what I go for.


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## JustBeachy (Nov 15, 2014)

Sounds like your mom has the exact plan needed to address the situation. If you can't get a refund, politely ask when they are planning on removing the non compliance vendors. Then just be quiet and let them respond.  Don't argue, just keep coming back to the point of "their" contract.  I like to use the, "I'm a little confused, isn't this your contract?  Can you explain to me how Avon isn't out of compliance with the contract?"  Then again, quiet and let them talk. They've got to know they're out of contract compliance. Whether or not they will comply or refund, is something you'll have to find out. 

To me, there's rarely a reason to be nasty about it, but there's never a reason to let people walk on you either.


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## lpstephy85 (Nov 15, 2014)

Thank you all for the great advice (and compliment PinkCupcake). I will definitely say something.


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## Susie (Nov 15, 2014)

It seems to me that you have 3 choices.

1.  You can sit back and do nothing.  This will result in lowered sales and simmering resentment on your part.  And I am not sure I would be able to look myself in the mirror if I chose this one.

2.  You can go confront the organizer tomorrow with a copy of your contract.  This person may be running around like a headless chicken trying to deal with the logistics of the end of a craft fair.  And you will be angry when you do that.  

3.  You can wait until Monday, and then contact the organizers with a copy of the contract.  You might want to contact some of the other vendors that actually do offer only handcrafted products to follow up on this also.  This is breach of contract.  It is a valid complaint.  Something needs to be done about it.  But, I would use my time Sunday gathering cards of other vendors to send them a letter or email rather than confronting the organizer just yet.  The more of you complain, the more likely something will be fixed.


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## OliveOil2 (Nov 16, 2014)

I think Susie has an excellent idea, you will have time to organize other vendors and place a complaint. The organizer may be more concerned about losing future business if the complaint comes from multiple vendors. This would be speaking up for all handcrafters, since this type of reseller is becoming commonplace at craft fairs. This is especially distasteful since they set the rules for handcrafted only and did a great job of spelling them out, and have no excuse for failing to enforce their rules. I would feel like they deceived me as a vendor.


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## goji_fries (Nov 16, 2014)

Craft mafia soul poison politics


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## cmzaha (Nov 16, 2014)

And at the end of the day you will most likely accomplish nothing by complaining but get yourself on their do not call list. Do you really want to cut yourself off from doing any other fairs they may organize? Breach of contract probably but are you will to take them to small claims. Since they accepted them in they are Not going to throw them out. Most craft fairs and farmer markets I do have Scentsy and Avon, which is why I do not make tarts. They really will not affect your sales that much. Customers that want handmade want handmade. I am doing a 5 day fair after Thanksgiving that I am sure will have at least 5 soapmakers and it is a smallish fair and I was told when I first started a few years that there would only be 1 more. Nope I did not complain, I just have to have better products.
Good luck to you tomorrow


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 16, 2014)

That is a good point - if they have other fairs that you do go to, you might be blacklisted.  If this is the only fair that they organise, I'd say go for it. 

Take pictures of the other stands selling the commercial items. 

Ask for a full refund - you were entirely misled about what you were purchasing. 

When they don't play ball, take it to claims - or not, depends on how much it bothers you or how much you lose out this weekend because of it


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## cmzaha (Nov 16, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> That is a good point - if they have other fairs that you do go to, you might be blacklisted. If this is the only fair that they organise, I'd say go for it.
> 
> Take pictures of the other stands selling the commercial items.
> 
> ...


Other problem is, it is impossible to prove how much revenue was lost due to the commerical items. Do you really think Avon is going to hurt your soap sales? I have had my booth right next to Scentsy and Avon. Did not hurt my sales in the least. Scentsy booths usually bring around a decent amount of shoppers and lookers, can't hurt when they see you and your great products. If people want Scentsy they are going to buy it and not your handmade tarts, if you sell them. Also the organizers of the markets tend to know each other and talk with each other just like vendors do. Best to suck it up, sell what you can and do not do their market again if you do not like the way they handle it. It is their market... You also need to understand the markets today are not making big bucks for the owners and they need to sell spaces. Usually they have contracted to supply x amount of vendors so they have to get who they can. They need vendors, we need the markets and market managers. Without the market I cannot sell my soap and that would make me sad.


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## JustBeachy (Nov 16, 2014)

Carolyn, nothing you said is wrong and it makes sense from a perspective of 'make lemonade out of the lemons".  It's a good attitude and outlook. 

Couple of caveats though. Any other seller affects your sales. In simple terms, if 10 people are going to buy 10 bars of soap, and there is only one vendor, then the one vendor is going to sell all 10 bars. Make it 3 vendors and now the odds drop that one vendor is going to get all 10 sales. etc. Even if a vendor is selling a different product, they can pull business away from your buyers just by taking up the purchasing power of the consumer base. For example, a buyer is going to only spend 50 dollars today. After visiting 3 booths before yours, they spend 60, (cause people are horrible at staying within budget, haha). Now by the time they hit your booth, they're in browsing mode and not really thinking about any more purchases. Every vendor affects every other vendors selling potential. 

In this described example though, the main point to me is the fact that the organizers are failing to abide by their written contract. I make a really good living saying what I'm going to do, and then doing exactly what i say.   To me, that's one of the biggest problems with business today, hollow promises and contracts that aren't worth the paper they're written on. The only reason entity's get away with that type of business practice, is because people allow them to.  I try not to tell anyone how to live, but if you accept the broken promises/contracts, then you have no one to blame but yourself.


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## goji_fries (Nov 16, 2014)

JustBeachy said:


> _I make a really good living saying what I'm going to do, and then doing exactly what i say._



Marketer>?


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## pamielynn (Nov 16, 2014)

I agree with waiting until the show is over to say anything. You can't really prove you've lost revenue to Scentsy or Avon and you will still make money today.

If they hand you a review form to hand out, politely -but strongly- make your point known that you would not have attended had you known that direct sales people would be there. If you don't get a form, email the organizers as soon as you can, expressing your disappointment.

Usually, these organizers start out with the best of intentions, but find they can't fill all the available spots. And believe me when I tell you that these direct sales people start sending in emails and application requests the second an event goes live - and since there's usually about 12 of each company in the immediate area, the organizers get bombarded with requests from them. If they don't fill all their spots, they relent and let in the resellers. It sucks, big time. But you should definitely tell them, from an artist's point of view, how this drags down the reputation and attendance of their show.


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## lpstephy85 (Nov 16, 2014)

I really appreciate everyone's responses to this whether or not I agree with the advice.

For the two days it was $50.00 to rent the booth space. Not a huge chunk of change and yesterday I had $36 in sales so if I make another $14 today I at least have my booth fee covered. The money aspect is not what I am upset about, it is the fact that they clearly stated on the application that no commercial or manufactured items that one could byy in a store or through a vendor would be able to purchase. Is Avon really going to hurt my soap sales, no not really. 

Yes, I sell tarts and the way the floor is set up is that anyone coming in is going to see Scentsy first as they are in the first row. My booth though isn't until almost the very end. I counted a decent amount of people that had bags full of their tarts. How is that supposed to give someone who takes the time to make the product and knows how it is made and exactly what goes in it a fair shake?

At our cities farmer's market this summer, I competed against another soapmaker and someone who also had candles and tarts. The one that had candles and tarts has also been at two other craft shows I have done this year. Was I ever mad that I had to compete against them? No, because they were handmade products and that is how any craft show should be. At this event there is another soapmaker and also another candle maker. Big deal, they actually made the products so my hat is off to them that they do well also. 

I am still new to the selling and craft show game as it is my first year. I am not highly known and I don't go to these thinking I am going to make a lot of money. I go to the craft shows to get my name out their amongst potential customers who I know that I can provide a well crafted item to. If they have questions about the item I can tell them about the product and know everything that is going in to it. 

This was organized by a gymnastics/volleyball training facility so it is not an event organizer. I never said I wanted to get refunded my money and can careless if I do or don't as it is not going to financially ruin me. There is no need to take them to small claims court. I just want them to know that if they are going to say in their contract that there would be no commercial products, they should stick to that so future crafters that do this show won't also be mislead.


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## JustBeachy (Nov 16, 2014)

goji_fries said:


> Marketer>?



Not any more, per say, however as a wise man once told me, "Everything is marketing". I served my sentence in the corporate world, and luckily ended up with an early parole.   But yes, was involved in every level of sales and marketing pretty much all my life. From the cold calling sales man, to high end sales, and mid to upper level management of both. 

Now, I'm just a lowly entrepreneur. But **** I'm happier.


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## navigator9 (Nov 16, 2014)

If you approach them as justbeachy suggested, I can't imagine why you'd  be blacklisted. I would absolutely not let it go by without questioning  them. They're the ones who made the rules and then proceeded to break  them. Do you think they'd remain quiet if it were the other way around?  Not likely. 

Craft fair organizers run the gamut from fabulous to  absolutely awful. A really badly run craft fair can cause so many  headaches that it's not even worth doing. There is an organizer in my  neck of the woods who does the bigger craft fairs around here, and my  experience with them has been so absolutely awful that I've stopped  doing them. I could tell you horror stories! I now have a list of craft  fairs that I like to do, that are well run by people who actually care.  It's the old story of having to kiss a lot of frogs before you find the  prince, but eventually you get to know the fairs that are a pleasure to do.

You mention that this fair was not put on by an event organizer. Still...they made the rules, they should have adhered to them. Please keep us posted as to what happens. Best of luck.


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## cmzaha (Nov 16, 2014)

JustBeachy said:


> Carolyn, nothing you said is wrong and it makes sense from a perspective of 'make lemonade out of the lemons". It's a good attitude and outlook.
> 
> Couple of caveats though. Any other seller affects your sales. In simple terms, if 10 people are going to buy 10 bars of soap, and there is only one vendor, then the one vendor is going to sell all 10 bars. Make it 3 vendors and now the odds drop that one vendor is going to get all 10 sales. etc. Even if a vendor is selling a different product, they can pull business away from your buyers just by taking up the purchasing power of the consumer base. For example, a buyer is going to only spend 50 dollars today. After visiting 3 booths before yours, they spend 60, (cause people are horrible at staying within budget, haha). Now by the time they hit your booth, they're in browsing mode and not really thinking about any more purchases. Every vendor affects every other vendors selling potential.
> 
> In this described example though, the main point to me is the fact that the organizers are failing to abide by their written contract. I make a really good living saying what I'm going to do, and then doing exactly what i say. To me, that's one of the biggest problems with business today, hollow promises and contracts that aren't worth the paper they're written on. The only reason entity's get away with that type of business practice, is because people allow them to. I try not to tell anyone how to live, but if you accept the broken promises/contracts, then you have no one to blame but yourself.


What you say is very true about getting away with it. But the bottom line is, it happens, but you Cannot control sales or vendors in these type of markets If one does not like what they do move or open a brick and mortor, but even then you cannot stop someone from opening up next to you, and selling the same product. At least selling this way you are not paying for a store front 24/7 and all the expense that goes with a brick and mortor. Sure they get away with it, is it worth fighting the issue not in my opnion unless you have extra money to spend. I would rather save my money for supplies, and decide if I am going to do the same market again. But I will not put my self in the position getting blacklisted. I just watched our owner put a vendor on 3 month suspension, she has done his market for 21 yrs and decided to keep arguing with him when he told her she could not have a certain food item at the venue. Now she lost her main market for 3 months and this is her source of income. Just not worth an argument.Beachy, I also know corporate, we went through a 2yr legal battle with a former partner that was trying to push us out of our last corporation. He may still have the business,  but it cost him 10x's more than he was offering, he is still working chasing money while we are happily retired doing what we want with no great struggles, happily making and selling soap. So yep, I know when to pick a fight...Simple fact if you want to do markets in the area pick the fight and see who wins. You win by not becoming vendor for them again, but keep the door open.


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## JustBeachy (Nov 16, 2014)

cmzaha said:


> What you say is very true about getting away with it. But the bottom line is, it happens, but you Cannot control sales or vendors in these type of markets  If one does not like what they do move or open a brick and mortor, but even then you cannot stop someone from opening up next to you, and selling the same product. Sure they get away with it, is it worth fighting the issue nope unless you have extra money to spend. I would rather save my money for supplies, and decide if I am going to do the same market again. But I will not put my self in the position getting blacklisted. I just watched our owner put a vendor on 3 month suspension, she has done his market for 21 yrs and decided to keep arguing with him when he told her she could not have a certain food item at the venue. Now she lost her main market for 3 months and this is her source of income. Just not worth an argument. Just so you know I went through a 2yr legal battle with a former partner that was trying to push us out of our last. He may still have the business, but we wanted out anyway, but it cost him 10x's more than he was offering. So yep, I know when to pick a fight...Simple fact if you no longer want to do markets in the area pick the fight and see who wins. You win by not becoming vendor for them again, but keep open the door.



I hear what you're saying, but I think we're looking at it from a somewhat different perspective. 

No one is saying they want to control vendors. I'm pretty sure no one has a problem with another soaper setting up right next to you. The point the OP was making wasn't about that. It was about what the fair was being promoted as. 

It also costs no money to stand up for what you believe is right. No one is talking about suing anyone. There is a giant difference between voicing an opinion while questioning a contract and "picking a fight". Happens everyday in business while negotiating. 

I think we all know people around us who can't discuss an issue without getting argumentative. I have a brother that fits that description to a tee. I don't think anyone in this thread has advocated that approach.  But if politely and professionally questioning a obvious breach of contract resulted in my getting kicked out of a market, then it's certainly a place I wouldn't want to be anyways. 

I haven't sold soap in over 15 years. Back then, word of mouth and markets were the only way to sell soap. I "negotiated" a couple of times with market organizers. Never had a problem that wasn't resolved and was never blacklisted. Guess it's all in your approach. :smile:


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## lpstephy85 (Nov 16, 2014)

Back with an update. I was able to make back my booth fee and $43 so the weekend wasn't a total wash. I did not end up talking to the organizers due to the fact I talked to another vendor who also was selling wax melts and she had already voiced her concerns to them. She was advised this was their first year doing this event (which I was not aware of) and because of that they didn't have as many vendors sign up. Because of the lack of vendors they had to open it up to commercial vendors to help draw more people in. 

We were in a very affluent area but the traffic was very light. Yesterday I did less than I did today with less customers coming through today and shorter hours. I think it helped that I made a change to my booth: Where I was located there was a guy who had a very large display of framed decorative art (three booths worth) next to me and he kind of buried me in. So, when one was walking they would be looking at his stuff and then kind of just pass on by. Well today before my mom got there, I was talking to the Avon lady and she suggested pulling my tables up more to get out in front of him. I really think that made a difference. 

So another lesson to put under my hat


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## Jstar (Nov 17, 2014)

I'm going to go with JB as well..if its a _legal binding contract_, then the vendor has every right to question why others are not held to the same contract. Imo, its not the money, its the principle of the thing.

Also, if a contract is breached by the company, then the vendor has the right to withdraw from said contract with no repercussions. {such as being blacklisted, since this could affect sales} It can be taken to court and the favor would most likely be going to the vendor who withdrew, with the organizer {contract holder}being held responsible for paying for all of the court costs etc..

I don't like deceit, in any form, and I def do not practice it..and just as JB stated, if the organizer was breaching their own contract, but holding me to it, then that's not something I'd want to be a part of in the future, so I would gladly stand up and say something, without worrying about coming back.

That's just my 2 soap bubbles on the issue....

Anywayz, glad it worked out for you stephy


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## navigator9 (Nov 18, 2014)

If, for whatever reason, the organizers decided to change the original terms, all vendors should have been contacted beforehand, and offered the chance to withdraw if they chose to. I think that unfortunately, being their first craft fair, the organizers were not familiar with how things work in the craft fair world, and did not anticipate that there are crafters who choose particular craft fairs because they are specifically designated as all handmade. For this reason, I think vendors should ask about things that are deal breakers for them, beforehand. If organizers are reluctant to answer questions, that would be an indication to me, that it might not be a craft fair that I want to do. 

When I do a craft fair that is particularly well run, I always email the organizer afterwards to express my appreciation. A good organizer works* hard *to make sure things run smoothly. I think it's also appropriate to let an organizer know, in a respectful way, what things were not up to par. They can't change things if they don't know that vendors are not happy, and if they are new, they probably don't know, and hopefully will appreciate the feedback. Many craft fairs distribute a feedback form to vendors. Make sure you fill them out and return them!


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