# Cat Litter Problems Solved



## BrewerGeorge (Feb 17, 2016)

After owning cats for most of my 44 years, I've finally found the perfect litter solution and I wanted to share it.

Go to one of the pet stores or Amazon and get the Tidy Cats Breeze.  (You can probably find coupons online still.)  Throw away all the stuff that comes with it and go to Tractor Supply or Rural King or similar and buy the compressed pine horse bedding.  This is the same stuff that's sold as Feline pine, but without the 400% markup - I got 40 lbs for $5.  Fill the Breeze box with a couple inches of the pine and let the cats at it.

When the pine pellets get wet, they break up into sawdust and fall through the grate into the tray.  Once a day I scoop out the solid waste and rake the litter to make sure all the sawdust is down in the tray, then pull the tray and dump it.  Since it's just sawdust and not clay, I can dump it into the toilet and flush.  I add a half or 3/4 of a cup of new pellets into the box and I'm done.  It's about 3 minutes a day to care for.  It never gets dumped because all the used-up litter falls down and gets removed every day.  I suspect the 40# bag will last me two or three _months_ with 2 cats using it.

This thing is fantastic.  It's transformative to the cat owning experience.  No urine smell whatsoever, absolutely none - and no weird perfume cover-up smell either.  The only possibility of smell is a particularly bad BM, but then I just scoop it early.  If the stools are loose, the pellets break down and clump the sawdust to them, firming them up and making them scoopable.  The pellets are too big to track much and any that fly out as they scratch around just go back into the bin.  There's no gross clay dust, either.  The cats love it because it's much cleaner and they smell better overall with none of that "just came out of the litter box" odor about them.  Litter costs have gone from $10/week for expensive, clumping litter to $5/quarter.

If you have cats, I cannot recommend this more highly.


----------



## IrishLass (Feb 17, 2016)

I don't have cats, but I just wanted to celebrate with you on your awesome find.  I love good/handy finds like that.


IrishLass


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 17, 2016)

Wow! Intriguing idea, BG!!! I've got 5 house cats and a minimum of two large litter boxes out at all times. I am always struggling to keep their litter boxes tidy and fresh. I use the cheapest clumping litter I can buy (TSC's house brand). It's an ongoing chore to haul those 25 lb sacks from TSC back home and into the house and then haul 5 cats' worth of used litter out of the house to dispose of.

Just want to clarify that you're using this type of litter box specifically because of its removable tray? I've never seen this Breeze litter box, so I want to make sure I understand.


----------



## cmzaha (Feb 17, 2016)

Thankyou for the information. Going to try it


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Feb 17, 2016)

DeeAnna said:


> ...
> 
> Just want to clarify that you're using this type of litter box specifically because of its removable tray? I've never seen this Breeze litter box, so I want to make sure I understand.



Yes, the removable tray _and_ the slotted bottom.  

The Breeze box has a slotted bottom above a removable tray.  It is designed to be used with hard (like bisque-hard) clay pellets in the box and a special absorptive pad below in the tray.  Solids are scooped out while liquids run down to be sequestered by the pad - presumably by a super absorbent polymer like a diaper.  This system actually works passably well, but it is somewhat expensive and the hard clay pellets are problematic.  They stick to solid waste and they're too hard for me to feel good about flushing them.  Not to mention stepping on them is like stepping on a Lego.

So I'm using the box alone with the pine pellets.  The pine pellets are large enough to stay above the slots in the box, but the sawdust falls through them.  It's awesome.  Truthfully, I love this solution so much that I kind of look forward to emptying it every day - it's just so cool!  We used to have family squabbles about whose turn it was to "do the litterbox" on trash days, but now that's a thing of the past.

ETA:  We also have a dog and in the past have always needed to use litter boxes with covers to prevent the dog from "snacking" therein.  The Breeze does not have a top, which initially concerned me, but it has absolutely not been an issue.  I can only imagine that the dog does not like the scent of the pine because she has not gone looking for "treats" there a single time.


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 17, 2016)

My dogs like to snack too, especially the basset. :sick:

Thanks for explaining -- I got it now!


----------



## Seawolfe (Feb 17, 2016)

My 10 lb dog USES the cat box if we don't let him out in a timely manner. The 18 and 20 lb cats haven't killed him yet, so they must be ok with it.

This intrigues me. We have used pine pellets in the past, but the sawdust got tracked everywhere much worse than the clumping litter (which is mostly trapped by the grid in front of the box, and the rug the box and grid sit on). But you say that the sawdust trickles down into the tray so thats not an issue?


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Feb 17, 2016)

The sawdust falls down when I rake the litter.  Otherwise it sort of stays together.  This method does absolutely require daily attention to rake the sawdust down.  Just 3-5 min, but every day.


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Feb 17, 2016)

See if this link works... 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/photos/?s...&did=7f3acd86eeaae6db4813b428919403c5ce389846


----------



## Seawolfe (Feb 17, 2016)

Huh interesting - thanks!


----------



## Susie (Feb 17, 2016)

I copied/pasted that info to my sister-in-law who is owned by multiple cats.


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 17, 2016)

I'm convinced, and I'm going to give it a try. If this does nothing but just eliminate the schlepping of heavy clay litter ... it's going to be worth it. Thanks again -- super idea!!!


----------



## nsmar4211 (Feb 18, 2016)

I've been using this stuff for years because I used to use it on other livestock and had it around-never considered the "breeze" system though! Had to buy "feline pine" last week because I couldn't get to the feed store and it's the EXACT same stuff....what a ripoff.

For a regular box, a recent trick I learned was a thin (1/8th inch) layer of the silicone "crystal" litter on the bottom of the box helps even more with some of the odor....


----------



## Arimara (Feb 18, 2016)

At first, I was going to say "I HATE TIDY CATS CAT LITTER!!!" but then I calmed down and read the rest of it. I've never used Feline Pine (I was little leery of it and  I liked Dr. Elsey's)  but I have to say that your idea is genius and cost efficient. But I no longer have my kitty and I would not be driving to look for the closest Agway right now.


----------



## CaraBou (Feb 18, 2016)

We have a Tractor Supply Co going up near us - will check it out for sure.  I have been pleasantly surprised by my two young cats' use of nature's latrin" since moving to MT (although winter has slowed it). They scrape the pine needles   Now that we're rural with no busy roads and we've found a way to minimize bird kills, we let them outside here (which we did not frequently do in Anchorage).  But we do still have litter boxes too so thanks for the tip.

This leads me to another great product to add to your thread, if you don't mind George: "clown collars" from http://www.birdsbesafe.com/
These are colorful fabric fan collars that birds readily see, and that break away if the collar gets hung up on something. We've seen a drastic decline in captured birds, which maintains the cats' privileges to go outside.  They still hunt, but are rarely successful.  Voles are less lucky, but that is noticeably reduced too.  Win-win-win for cats, their people, and wild critters!


----------



## Arimara (Feb 19, 2016)

CaraBou said:


> We have a Tractor Supply Co going up near us - will check it out for sure.  I have been pleasantly surprised by my two young cats' use of nature's latrin" since moving to MT (although winter has slowed it). They scrape the pine needles   Now that we're rural with no busy roads and we've found a way to minimize bird kills, we let them outside here (which we did not frequently do in Anchorage).  But we do still have litter boxes too so thanks for the tip.
> 
> This leads me to another great product to add to your thread, if you don't mind George: "clown collars" from http://www.birdsbesafe.com/
> These are colorful fabric fan collars that birds readily see, and that break away if the collar gets hung up on something. We've seen a drastic decline in captured birds, which maintains the cats' privileges to go outside.  They still hunt, but are rarely successful.  Voles are less lucky, but that is noticeably reduced too.  Win-win-win for cats, their people, and wild critters!



That should lead to a nice drop in the "cats are evil" camp.


----------



## CaraBou (Feb 19, 2016)

Hope so!


----------



## nsmar4211 (Feb 19, 2016)

Those collars remind of putting a scrunchie on the cat for fun LOL.


----------



## LBussy (Feb 19, 2016)

I have one of those Litter Maid automatic raking ones.  I put it on a deal with a chute that eliminates the need for the trays and allows me to empty a bag once a week (two cats.)  It looks sorta like this but a little more furniture-like:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EVPW8A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Now people either love or hate the Litter Maid.  Knock on wood I have a good one right now, but even when I have issues I know enough about them to (generally) be able to address the issues.


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 20, 2016)

Went to Wally World tonight and could find the pads for the Breeze litter box, but of course ... no actual Breeze litter boxes. Grrr. Went to TSC and got the usual heaped cart of dog-cat-horse food ... and one bag of pine pelleted bedding. 

Got home, grabbed a couple of empty spare litter boxes, and put pellets in each. (I have spare boxes so I can put extras out when we go away for a few days.) Put one pellet filled box next to each of the two clay filled litter boxes I have for my five cats ... and we'll see what happens. 

Cleo, my opinionated nosy gray girl cat, checked the pine litter, but didn't seem impressed. But give it time.


----------



## lenarenee (Feb 21, 2016)

Do be careful with elderly cats, cats with asthma or are prone to respiratory infection if the horse bedding/cat litter is pine. The pine vapor and dust particles are very problematic for them.

And it can be deadly for little hamsters and such - must use aspen instead.

Tried to use the horse pellets for a large guinea pig cage when the vet said it would be safe - but one of them started showing signs of respiratory distress so out that went.


----------



## Saponista (Feb 21, 2016)

I use the pine litter too. I tried some of the other options and they all smelled awful! I will see if I can find the horse bedding though as that's a ridiculously cheap price compared to bags of cat litter! Thank you for the tips


----------



## penelopejane (Feb 21, 2016)

DeeAnna said:


> Put one pellet filled box next to each of the two clay filled litter boxes I have for my five cats ... and we'll see what happens.
> 
> Cleo, my opinionated nosy gray girl cat, checked the pine litter, but didn't seem impressed. But give it time.




DeeAnna, I find if you want to change a fussy cats litter (or food) mix a substantial amount of the old litter in with the new and gradually reduce the amount of old litter over a week or more. Infiltration/change by stealth.


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 21, 2016)

I put a large clump of pee from the clay litter into one of the new pine litter boxes last night. Someone used that box sometime in the night. Yay! 

Thanks for the tip about mixing the litters if needed, PenelopeJane -- I'm hoping I can encourage the cats to make the switch without mixing, but I have two elderly fellows who are set in their ways and might need more of a hint.

I now understand how the pine can be dusty, but it doesn't seem to be any more dusty than the clumping litter. Agreed that clay dust is not the same as pine dust, however. I used aspen shavings for my birds too, since they are sensitive to pine resin like your guinea pigs. I can see that Brewer George's screened litter pan and faithful daily cleaning would help by removing the broken down pellets before they dry out.


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Feb 21, 2016)

The phenols from pine resin _can_ be a problem for cats - especially when there is inadequate ventilation such as in a covered box.  However, shaved pine bedding is NOT the same as the compressed pine pellets vis-à-vis dust and resin.  The compression process to make the pellets creates very high heat that destroys the resin.  They are, in fact, held together by the resin and lignin activated by the heat of compression.

As for training the cats to use the new litter, I just gave them the sink-or-swim treatment.  They swam.


----------



## lenarenee (Feb 21, 2016)

BrewerGeorge said:


> The phenols from pine resin _can_ be a problem for cats - especially when there is inadequate ventilation such as in a covered box.  However, shaved pine bedding is NOT the same as the compressed pine pellets vis-à-vis dust and resin.  The compression process to make the pellets creates very high heat that destroys the resin.  They are, in fact, held together by the resin and lignin activated by the heat of compression.
> 
> As for training the cats to use the new litter, I just gave them the sink-or-swim treatment.  They swam.



Right, there's a difference between  wood chip bedding and pellets. However I was talking about the pine pellets...the stuff sold as litter and horse bedding. 

 Heres what I know: my former veterinarian  did feline research at Cornell University, and he's done autopsies ...well...I'll skip that. But he believes long term exposure to the  pine pellets causes lung issues as he's found pine residue in lungs of deceased cats. (Uh....I don't believe he was saying pine pellets caused the deaths.his speciality was kidney disease) He advised me to stop using it for my elderly cat because of her age and susceptibility to infection. 


The horse bedding we saw in Virginia  and California has a strong pine scent, so the heat didn't destroy everything. I do know that not all horse bedding is pine.

This reminds me we need to run down to our farm supply store for guinea pig hay. Half the price of pet store stuff  and LOTS fresher!


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Feb 21, 2016)

Ah, so you're talking about the dust itself.  I haven't heard anything about that, just the phenol issue.  Hopefully my removing it every day will mitigate that possibility.  Thanks for the info.


----------



## lenarenee (Feb 22, 2016)

BrewerGeorge said:


> Ah, so you're talking about the dust itself. I haven't heard anything about that, just the phenol issue. Hopefully my removing it every day will mitigate that possibility. Thanks for the info.


 
You know - I'm really not sure which was the problem. It was a conversation we had 5 years ago.
I know he advised owners of asthmatic, elderly, and infection prone cats to not use the pine litters. 

You sound very attentive to your cat and its litter box, so I'm sure you'll know what's safe your cat.

I'm definitely sure that small animals like hamster, gerbils are hugely affected by the pine chips and pine pellets.


----------



## nsmar4211 (Feb 23, 2016)

Chiming in with a completely different viewpoint.

My older cat is asthmatic. Was misdiagnosed as hairballs for years by my normal (ex) vet. New vets all wanted to run $400 worth of blood tests before even looking at him even after I told them I suspected asthma. Finally found a vet who agreed to at least *look* at him... he had an attack right on the table and viola! Asthma. We're talking inhaler twice a day and emergency inhaler several times a week strength asthma.

One thing that I started experimenting with was his litter. I tried every litter on the shelf (and the wheat stuff is nastyyyyyy with urine) at the local store. One day I was looking at the pine stuff I used on the goat's sleeping areas....hrmm. Low dust and cheap. Switched him over to that by using it 50/50 for a week with what he was currently on and then the next week it was sink or swim...he swam. There was an asthma improvement within a week, and a  larger improvement within a month-I wasn't having to use the emergency inhaler much. 

A few years later (now), after learning what scents/triggers he's sensitive to, etc...he's off the daily inhalers except when the pollen flies a few times a year. 

My point is, asthmatic cats react differently to different litters...in my case, clay/wheat/newspaper litters are bad and pine is good. Is it the dust factor? Maybe...but even the "low dust" litters make mine react. For a vet to say not to use something without seeing how that particular cat reacts may mean misery for the cat !

That said, it's not like the cats are living in their litter boxes (I hope not) so the exposure to anything is very limited. Possibly the autopsied cats were breeders kept in an enclosed area with the pine stuff. Mine has a high side box (actually a rubbermaid tote with a side hole) but it's not covered so everything can dissapate.... 

When I had guinea pigs,I kept them on pine shavings, never had any respiratory issues...  Is this something new that's come up the past few years? Cedar is horrible for them , but pine was what we (myself and fellow show people) always used....aspen was through the roof price wise. Got out of it a few years back though, so maybe the way they make the shavings has changed?


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 26, 2016)

Brewer George ... consider yourself warmly hugged and kissed on the cheek!!!!

Thank you for sharing this idea. If my five feline friends stay agreeable about the switch in litter, the pine pellet litter is going to save my back, make my house smell better, save a little money, and make my cats and me happier. The odor reduction is impressive compared to clumping clay litter. I really appreciate how light the used litter is, since I have to schlep the stuff down several flights of stairs. I also like that I can compost the used litter for use in the garden. (I flush all the poo, so the used litter is just pee and pine).

My two elder fellows Murray and Albert -- the 17-18 year olds who live exclusively upstairs -- have transitioned to the pellets without an ounce of complaint, and their upstairs litter box is now 100% pellets. Cleo, my opinionated gray girl cat, apparently doesn't like the pellets underfoot. She is quite willing to pee outside the litter box if she doesn't like what's in it, so I'm keeping two downstairs litter boxes to keep peace with her -- one with clay and one with pine. But even she has gotten to the point where she will use the pine litter if she's upstairs and the old guys' box is the closest available. That gives me hope that she will eventually agree to transition to 100% pine. 

I'm most grateful for your kindness in passing this idea along!

Oh, and now I totally understand your comment "...I kind of look forward to emptying [the litter box] every day - it's just so cool!..." 

Yeah. I get it. :mrgreen:


----------



## thedarkreprise (Apr 19, 2016)

I'm a little late to this party, but that is quite an interesting find and one that I might look to trying in the future. We use walnut shells for cat litter. It cuts down on the smell an incredible amount, it attracts the cat to the box to begin with so there isn't any "roaming" at the mouth of the cover and it works like a dream to contain all moisture therein. The issue is that it can be pricy, however that's combatted by the fact that you don't have to completely change out the litter as often as you do with clay-based litters. Thank you for sharing your find though! I will certainly give that a try in the future.


----------



## DeeAnna (Apr 19, 2016)

I've been using BG's method for a couple of months now. Still happy. 

It works especially well with the sifting litter boxes made for pelleted litter like the Tidy Cat Breeze or this one http://allpinelitterbox.com/order.php

My elder guys tend to pee outside the box  if the box is too small, so I switched one of their litter boxes to a standard litter pan that is extra big. That kind of pan uses more pellets, since the liquid can't drain away like it can with the sifting litter box. But small matter -- it's still much better than clay litter. Much less dusty, less odor, faster and easier to clean, less weight to carry around, uses less bedding so cheaper to use, easier disposal of the wastes ... what's not to like?


----------



## Navaria (Apr 19, 2016)

I tried this last summer. One cat reluctantly agreed to the change. One had no problem at all. The other flat out refused. I even tried 10% pellet and 90% litter. Still no go. It lasted less than a week and we had to switch back. I was so sad we couldn't make it work because it sounded like the perfect solution.


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Apr 20, 2016)

Still going strong after two months.  I'm beginning to think about buying the second bag of bedding, but I've still got a couple weeks left in that first 40# bag I bought.


----------



## DeeAnna (Apr 20, 2016)

I've gone through a couple of bags in 2 months, but I have a couple of diabetic cats and they pee a LOT compared to a non-diabetic. Still a huge money saver.


----------

