# Ugh, can’t seem to get it right.



## Katie68121 (Apr 8, 2021)

Hey soapers 
I’m struggling to nail down my recipes and techniques. I keep coming up with cosmetic issues. This time I think is my first experiencing stearic spots... I also struggle with soda ash on almost every batch  maybe someone can help inform me what I’m doing wrong? This batch I wanted to CPOP for the first time, so I soaped with lye solution and oils around 88F my recipe is as follows
Olive oil 40%
Coconut oil 25%
Sunflower oil 15%
Cocoa butter 10%
Shea butter 5%
Castor oil 5%
Lye concentration at 33%


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## AliOop (Apr 8, 2021)

The soap looks very pretty! FWIW, I don't think those are stearic spots. They look more like ash to me. I get that on the sides of some bars, more frequently when I've used AC for black. Also, looking at your edges and some of the dings in the soap, it looks  pretty soft to me. Cutting while the soap is still pretty soft means that there is more unsaponified lye making contact with the air and creating soda ash.

The other possibility is that you have some colorant, possibly TD, that wasn't thoroughly mixed. The third pic in particular shows that the white stuff is following the color lines of the soap. But again, that could just be ash that is following along with the AC swirls.

To avoid ash, I've had to raise my lye concentration (usually to 40%), cover immediately after pouring, and wait longer than I'd like to cut it. Even after cutting, I cover the soap for a few days if it contains AC, since that ashes like crazy if I don't keep it covered for a few days at least. You can also try raising your soaping temp, which increases the rate of saponification so there is less unreacted lye to create ash.

The good news is that you can usually steam the ash away after curing, although it is not my favorite use of time.


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## Katie68121 (Apr 8, 2021)

AliOop said:


> The soap looks very pretty! FWIW, I don't think those are stearic spots. They look more like ash to me. I get that on the sides of some bars, more frequently when I've used AC for black. Also, looking at your edges and some of the dings in the soap, it looks  pretty soft to me. Cutting while the soap is still pretty soft means that there is more unsaponified lye making contact with the air and creating soda ash.
> 
> The other possibility is that you have some colorant, possibly TD, that wasn't thoroughly mixed. The third pic in particular shows that the white stuff is following the color lines of the soap. But again, that could just be ash that is following along with the AC swirls.
> 
> ...


Thank you!! I did not use TD but did use AC... what’s weird is I left this in the mold for almost 4 days until I cut it! I’ll have to invest in a steamer I think, and I’ll try soaping at warmer temps. I always worry about over heating when I soap at higher temps because I’ve had some batches crack on me too


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## AliOop (Apr 8, 2021)

Yes, it can be tough to find that sweet spot. Hopefully CPOPing and soaping even a small bit warmer will help - maybe 95-ish?


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## amd (Apr 9, 2021)

I steam off soda ash for wholesale accounts, but for my own selling/use I embrace it. It has not stopped anyone from buying the soap and they rarely ask.
I have found that some FO's will cause soda ash - same recipe, same soap method, even made on the same day, and that.one.FO will always ash. I just learned to embrace it when I have to. I have a few FO's that if I can spritz periodically with isopropyl alcohol the first 6 hours or so after making, it won't ash after being cut. Others are a bit more stubborn and will continue ashing after cut regardless of how long I wait.


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## cmzaha (Apr 9, 2021)

I agree with amd, I have some FO's that will ash no matter what I do, and of course they were some of my best-selling soaps, so I found it best to go with the flow. Ash never stopped my sales, customers never even questioned what was on the top of the soap.


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## Katie68121 (Apr 10, 2021)

amd said:


> I steam off soda ash for wholesale accounts, but for my own selling/use I embrace it. It has not stopped anyone from buying the soap and they rarely ask.
> I have found that some FO's will cause soda ash - same recipe, same soap method, even made on the same day, and that.one.FO will always ash. I just learned to embrace it when I have to. I have a few FO's that if I can spritz periodically with isopropyl alcohol the first 6 hours or so after making, it won't ash after being cut. Others are a bit more stubborn and will continue ashing after cut regardless of how long I wait.


Thank you for the input! May I ask, do you have an Etsy shop or website? I’d love to support it, as well as anyone else!


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## KiwiMoose (Apr 10, 2021)

Gorgeous soap! 
I used to get soda ash a lot, but now I don't much at all.  Yours looks mostly like a soda ash issue to me. I started out with 28% lye concentration and since moving to 30-33% and CPOPping/gelling, I seem to have beaten the ash. I don't cover my soaps anymore (except with the mould wooden lid), or spray with alcohol. Another change which i think has helped is the move to soy wax.  It can be recipe dependent, and I did used to use cocoa butter before switching to soy wax - so maybe that could have contributed?  Who would know really with so many other variables.  I soap about 40 degrees celsius BTW.


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## Catscankim (Apr 10, 2021)

I have used an iron set to steam instead of a steamer.

If they are non decorative tops, then I plane it off. If they are soaps that cannot be planed, then I just leave it or wash them in distilled water and let them sit for a day or so before packaging.

My charcoal bars are the worst offenders. Ash will build up over time...like you can literally roll it off the top with a finger. I usually plane or wash them. My non charcoal bars get it but not as bad, and whatever they had by the time I cut is all I get.

I don't stress about it. And nobody has ever asked me about it.


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## CpnDouchette (Apr 10, 2021)

Nothing useful to add, just stopped by to say that is a gorgeous bar of soap


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## Katie68121 (Apr 10, 2021)

KiwiMoose said:


> Gorgeous soap!
> I used to get soda ash a lot, but now I don't much at all.  Yours looks mostly like a soda ash issue to me. I started out with 28% lye concentration and since moving to 30-33% and CPOPping/gelling, I seem to have beaten the ash. I don't cover my soaps anymore (except with the mould wooden lid), or spray with alcohol. Another change which i think has helped is the move to soy wax.  It can be recipe dependent, and I did used to use cocoa butter before switching to soy wax - so maybe that could have contributed?  Who would know really with so many other variables.  I soap about 40 degrees celsius BTW.


Thank you  I actually ordered some soy wax last night! I’ll be giving that a try.


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## Katie68121 (Apr 10, 2021)

CpnDouchette said:


> Nothing useful to add, just stopped by to say that is a gorgeous bar of soap


Thank you


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## Zing (Apr 11, 2021)

Pur-tee!  
For my loaf molds, right after pouring I spray with alcohol and cover with plastic wrap.  I have not gotten soda ash ever since.


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## SPowers (Apr 11, 2021)

Before I got a steamer, I used to 'wash' my soap under warm water.  Can't do that if you have botanicals, etc but for plain tops, it works fine.


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## Katie68121 (Apr 12, 2021)

Zing said:


> Pur-tee!
> For my loaf molds, right after pouring I spray with alcohol and cover with plastic wrap.  I have not gotten soda ash ever since.


Thank you! Do you CPOP? Is your alcohol 99 percent? I still can't seem to find the 99...


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## amd (Apr 12, 2021)

Katie68121 said:


> Is your alcohol 99 percent? I still can't seem to find the 99...


If you can find 97 or 91 that will work just as well. I've tried the 71 (or whatever it is) and it didn't do anything to help.


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## Tracy von Elling (Apr 13, 2021)

I also don't have anything to add,  but your soap is beautiful!!


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## Zing (Apr 14, 2021)

Katie68121 said:


> Thank you! Do you CPOP? Is your alcohol 99 percent? I still can't seem to find the 99...


I have been using the 70-something alcohol because I can't find the 90-something.  I have used both and did not have soda ash.
I have CPOPed a few times (when the house and the oils and lye solution are particularly cold) and then only the mold of soap goes into the oven without covers, sleeping au naturale for the night.


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## earlene (Apr 14, 2021)

Katie68121 said:


> Thank you! Do you CPOP? Is your alcohol 99 percent? I still can't seem to find the 99...



Try stores that specialize in electronics parts, especially who sell computer parts.  Not saying they will necessarily have a huge  (or even any supply, depending on size of store & your area), but it's what's recommended for cleaning electronics (fast evaporation due to low water) .

Also tattoo parlors use 99% for skin sanitizing prior to tattooing, so you could ask if the can share where they source it.

I know in my travels, some stores don't even stock 70% IPA, but only 50%, and never 91% or 99%.  I don't really know why (never asked, because I doubt most employees would have no idea why.)

Yet, I can find almost all of those in my area, if I shop around.

Funny how odd it is that the same national chain doesn't carry the same products in all regions/states/counties across the nation.  It's frustrating for the traveling consumer.


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## TheGecko (Apr 14, 2021)

It could be Stearic spots given your low soaping temperature of 88F.  Even though you are only using 5% Shea Butter, it has eight times the Stearic than Palm Oil (according to SoapCalc) and the melting point of Shea Butter is 89F to 100F.

I would try increasing the temperature of your oils and Lye Solution to around 100F-110F because even if you are doing a plain Jane soap...no color, no scent...the temperature of your batter will start dropping once you start mixing your oils and lye and if you drop below the melting point, the oil or butter will start to re-solidify.  That may not make a lot of sense since the saponification process heats up the batter and you are CPOPing so it shouldn't be an issue, but I know that there is a lot science in soap making that is way above my current pay grade.


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## Tracy von Elling (Apr 14, 2021)

Not sure if you have a Costco there, but I found 99% rubbing alcohol at Costco! I was pretty happy and it was a good price too.


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## Katie68121 (Apr 14, 2021)

TheGecko said:


> It could be Stearic spots given your low soaping temperature of 88F.  Even though you are only using 5% Shea Butter, it has eight times the Stearic than Palm Oil (according to SoapCalc) and the melting point of Shea Butter is 89F to 100F.
> 
> I would try increasing the temperature of your oils and Lye Solution to around 100F-110F because even if you are doing a plain Jane soap...no color, no scent...the temperature of your batter will start dropping once you start mixing your oils and lye and if you drop below the melting point, the oil or butter will start to re-solidify.  That may not make a lot of sense since the saponification process heats up the batter and you are CPOPing so it shouldn't be an issue, but I know that there is a lot science in soap making that is way above my current pay grade.


Thank you! Yeah I thought it looked like stearic spots too, but idk for sure...(how would I know for sure?...lol)  I will be soaping warmer next time, sticking with CPOP as well, do you or anyone else know is it ok to spray with alcohol and CPOP? I found 99 percent alcohol at my Target!


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## TheGecko (Apr 14, 2021)

Katie68121 said:


> Thank you! Yeah I thought it looked like stearic spots too, but idk for sure...(how would I know for sure?...lol)  I will be soaping warmer next time, sticking with CPOP as well, do you or anyone else know is it ok to spray with alcohol and CPOP? I found 99 percent alcohol at my Target!



The few times I have done it, I just covered the mold with Saran Wrap.


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## Basil (May 19, 2021)

KiwiMoose said:


> Gorgeous soap!
> I used to get soda ash a lot, but now I don't much at all.  Yours looks mostly like a soda ash issue to me. I started out with 28% lye concentration and since moving to 30-33% and CPOPping/gelling, I seem to have beaten the ash. I don't cover my soaps anymore (except with the mould wooden lid), or spray with alcohol. Another change which i think has helped is the move to soy wax.  It can be recipe dependent, and I did used to use cocoa butter before switching to soy wax - so maybe that could have contributed?  Who would know really with so many other variables.  I soap about 40 degrees celsius BTW.


Hi Kiwi, I'm struggling with soda ash now and I thought I had beat the problem when I switched to 33 lye concentration. But when I started using soy wax I'm getting it again..I wonder if it's because I'm trying to soap no higher than 35 C trying to balance it and goat milk?  I have no clue.  I use soy wax at 15%. I cover the soap with saran, spray with 99% alcohol and yesterday I decided to leave in the mold for 48 hours instead of 24...I'm watching it. It's harder to get the ash off of little detailed embeds.. I use 7-10% kokum but I've used it before.. I may go back to the 415 soy wax.. I tried it but it seemed to accelerate more than the american soy wax I was using. If you have any suggestions I'd be happy to hear. Thanks!


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## KiwiMoose (May 19, 2021)

I use 20% 415 wax, I gel, I don't spray or cover with 'glad' wrap ( our brand of saran). But I do cover with a lid while gelling. I tend to soap around 40 - 45 degrees but lately I have been going as low as 35 with no problems.  I find that gelling is key for me.  I still get a bit of soda ash now and again but it's very fine layer and you don't really notice it.  I use a 30% lye concentration.


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## Basil (May 19, 2021)

KiwiMoose said:


> I use 20% 415 wax, I gel, I don't spray or cover with 'glad' wrap ( our brand of saran). But I do cover with a lid while gelling. I tend to soap around 40 - 45 degrees but lately I have been going as low as 35 with no problems.  I find that gelling is key for me.  I still get a bit of soda ash now and again but it's very fine layer and you don't really notice it.  I use a 30% lye concentration.


I’ll try the 415, no saran or alcohol but cover with lid and 30% and see if it helps. Thank you! I’ll let you know


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## marie1964 (May 21, 2021)

Katie68121 said:


> Hey soapers
> I’m struggling to nail down my recipes and techniques. I keep coming up with cosmetic issues. This time I think is my first experiencing stearic spots... I also struggle with soda ash on almost every batch  maybe someone can help inform me what I’m doing wrong? This batch I wanted to CPOP for the first time, so I soaped with lye solution and oils around 88F my recipe is as follows
> Olive oil 40%
> Coconut oil 25%
> ...


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## marie1964 (May 21, 2021)

Katie68121 said:


> Hey soapers
> I’m struggling to nail down my recipes and techniques. I keep coming up with cosmetic issues. This time I think is my first experiencing stearic spots... I also struggle with soda ash on almost every batch  maybe someone can help inform me what I’m doing wrong? This batch I wanted to CPOP for the first time, so I soaped with lye solution and oils around 88F my recipe is as follows
> Olive oil 40%
> Coconut oil 25%
> ...


 I would try increasing your hard oils if Soda Ash is the problem,  I found when i started if i used a higher percentage of soft oils i would get more soda ash probelms,  or  sometimes i like a balance of equal amounts of hard oils and soft oils, also a slight water discount helps also , just bare in mind it may come to trace quicker if you reduce the distilled water so id advise letting your lye and oils get to a lower temp before mixing to slow down the trace and keep it workable for longer.  It looks a really nice soap though.


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## Basil (May 21, 2021)

KiwiMoose said:


> I use 20% 415 wax, I gel, I don't spray or cover with 'glad' wrap ( our brand of saran). But I do cover with a lid while gelling. I tend to soap around 40 - 45 degrees but lately I have been going as low as 35 with no problems.  I find that gelling is key for me.  I still get a bit of soda ash now and again but it's very fine layer and you don't really notice it.  I use a 30% lye concentration.


@Katie68121 I apologize..I realized I posted on your thread. Didn't mean to highjack!


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## Katie68121 (May 23, 2021)

Basil said:


> @Katie68121 I apologize..I realized I posted on your thread. Didn't mean to highjack!


No worries! It’s relatable to the topic, I don’t mind


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## Shy1 (May 23, 2021)

I have found the same as many others that a spritz of rubbing alcohol and covering works well, also using a water discount. However the draw back of a water discount is that if you need it to stay fluid for swirls, you have less time to work. There is a great you tube video from Lisa at I dream in soap that explains all of this really well.


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## Tara_H (May 24, 2021)

Shy1 said:


> However the draw back of a water discount is that if you need it to stay fluid for swirls, you have less time to work.


This is not necessarily true in an absolute sense - there's a range at which a water discount will actually give a longer working time, although it also increases the impact of any accelerating fragrances etc.
I moved to a 38% solution for the purpose of having a more fluid batter for swirls; the fact that I don't really get soda ash any more is just a handy side effect.


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## Shy1 (May 24, 2021)

Tara_H said:


> This is not necessarily true in an absolute sense - there's a range at which a water discount will actually give a longer working time, although it also increases the impact of any accelerating fragrances etc.
> I moved to a 38% solution for the purpose of having a more fluid batter for swirls; the fact that I don't really get soda ash any more is just a handy side effect.


Thanks Tara.


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## AliOop (May 24, 2021)

Tara_H said:


> This is not necessarily true in an absolute sense - there's a range at which a water discount will actually give a longer working time, although it also increases the impact of any accelerating fragrances etc.
> I moved to a 38% solution for the purpose of having a more fluid batter for swirls; the fact that I don't really get soda ash any more is just a handy side effect.


I agree. I usually soap with a 40% solution (also to reduce ash), and it slows trace considerably for me.


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## Peachy Clean Soap (May 27, 2021)

"Ditto" To All post above in regards to Prevention Of Soda Ash!!!  @KiwiMoose adding 415 to soap helped w/ soda ash.  I gotta share my recent "light bulb moment too in regards to "Soda Ash"
Ive done just about "all their is to do to prevent "Soda Ash" as mentioned above.  But what had occurred to me is when I was getting low on Bees Wax and leaving it out in a few batches' then using what I had left in a few batches " in this last week" I realized the soap I had "NOT USED BEESWAX"  Is The Soap That Got " Soda Ash".  Hmmm I think the use of Beeswax or 415 soy wax? really helps in preventing soda ash.


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## TheGecko (May 27, 2021)

Wanted to add.  Most of the time, you can just plane off Soda Ash.  Or you can 'wash' it off your soap.  Or you can get a clothing steamer (I have one).


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