# Palm oil alternatives to this recipe?



## SudsyFox (Jun 28, 2020)

Hi everyone,

I'm thinking about making my favourite recipe palm-free. I got this recipe from Voyageur's website (link here) way back when I first started making soap and it's served me well! It's a nice hard bar with lovely soft lather and feels pretty moisturizing overall. I'm wondering what I could substitute for the palm oil if I want to make it palm-free. Babassu oil seems like a good choice but it's much too expensive for me.

Here's the recipe...

25% Coconut oil
32% Palm oil
36% Sunflower oil
7% Shea butter

Any suggestions?  Oh, and I'm hoping not to use lard or tallow as I have had people tell me they're glad I don't use any animal products in the soap.


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## artemis (Jun 28, 2020)

This comes up a lot. Try searching the forum for palm free or palm substitute etc.


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## Jersey Girl (Jun 28, 2020)

SudsyFox said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Any suggestions?  Oh, and I'm hoping not to use lard or tallow as I have had people tell me they're glad I don't use any animal products in the soap.



If they only knew how awesome lard is in soap...*sigh*
I believe babassu is a replacement for coconut oil and is even more drying so I’m not sure you’d want to use that given the 25% co already in the recipe.  Hmmmmm...I say lard...lol. I’m sorry, I’m no help.  I say change their mind... give them a small sample of a soap with lard and see How they like it!  It’s really pretty awesome!


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## Orla (Jun 28, 2020)

I'm a bit of a neophyte here, but two interesting things came up when I formulated a similar question: rapeseed wax and soya wax. I have ordered the soyawax (not organic but non-OGM), and I'm very disappointed that soapcalc does not have rapeseed wax on its list of ingredients. I tried to send them a message, but it bounced. The sex appeal of either of those words in France - either colza or soja - is pretty near zero, but I'm going to plough ahead, and hope that the soap itself meets the approval of my friends...


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## lsg (Jun 28, 2020)

If you are not adverse to using lard, IMO, it makes a great substitute for palm


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## Kamahido (Jun 28, 2020)

SudsyFox said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm thinking about making my favourite recipe palm-free. I got this recipe from Voyageur's website (link here) way back when I first started making soap and it's served me well! It's a nice hard bar with lovely soft lather and feels pretty moisturizing overall. I'm wondering what I could substitute for the palm oil if I want to make it palm-free. Babassu oil seems like a good choice but it's much too expensive for me.
> 
> ...


How about Shea Butter? It's not a perfect substitute like Tallow or Lard would be. But it is a nice hard oil when you need a non-animal product substitute.


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## SPowers (Jun 28, 2020)

I was also going to suggest lard... I love it - my new favorite.


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## Gaisy59 (Jun 29, 2020)

I think KiwiMoose uses soy wax and likes it.


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## JoAnn Mancuso (Jun 29, 2020)

SudsyFox said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm thinking about making my favourite recipe palm-free. I got this recipe from Voyageur's website (link here) way back when I first started making soap and it's served me well! It's a nice hard bar with lovely soft lather and feels pretty moisturizing overall. I'm wondering what I could substitute for the palm oil if I want to make it palm-free. Babassu oil seems like a good choice but it's much too expensive for me.
> 
> ...


Try rice bran


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## shunt2011 (Jun 29, 2020)

Babassu is not a sub for Palm oil. It’s a sub for Coconut.  Ya will need to play on a soap calculator and I would start by asking Shea and or cocoa butter. It will take some work.  Could also try soy wax. I have no experience with that so no help.


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## Arimara (Jun 29, 2020)

Jersey Girl said:


> If they only knew how awesome lard is in soap...*sigh*
> I believe babassu is a replacement for coconut oil and is even more drying so I’m not sure you’d want to use that given the 25% co already in the recipe.  Hmmmmm...I say lard...lol. I’m sorry, I’m no help.  I say change their mind... give them a small sample of a soap with lard and see How they like it!  It’s really pretty awesome!


The thing about babassu is that it is incredibly deceptive in how it feels. In soap, if feels like a million bucks and I have yet to regret ever using it in soap but, unlke coconut oil, I have had to cap that oil to 20% because of its cleansing qualities. I feel that it is more gentle than coconut oil but it really is a tad more harsh (just a little bit). Still, it is great to use in combination with coconut oil if you ever decide to splurge. Just keep the total cleansing oil amount to 20%.


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## penelopejane (Jun 30, 2020)

You could use olive oil instead of the palm. It will need a longer cure - 9-12 weeks. I’d up the Shea butter to 10% and reduce the coconut oil.


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## SoapSisters (Jul 1, 2020)

I started using soy wax a few months ago and I really like it. I originally wanted to use it for the hardness it contributes to soap, but I was surprised to find out it also adds really good lather. I think many people here use it at 20%. I've found that even 10% adds harness and lather.


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## SudsyFox (Jul 1, 2020)

Thanks all! Really good info here. I wouldn't be adverse to trying lard myself, but hearing the people I sell it to say "I'm glad you don't use animal products!" really makes me hesitant that using it would put people off!

Soy wax is an interesting idea. Is that the same as is used for candles?

I already use shea butter in my recipe, and I'd be hesitant to use too much in place of the palm as it doesn't contribute to lather or hardness (according to soapqueen anyway, heh). Maybe I should just stick with palm but use an organic version... it's so hard to find that perfect replacement.


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## Gaisy59 (Jul 1, 2020)

KiwiMoose uses about 20% soy wax in her recipes. If you search soy wax and KiwiMoose her info will come up


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## cmzaha (Jul 2, 2020)

SudsyFox said:


> Thanks all! Really good info here. I wouldn't be adverse to trying lard myself, but hearing the people I sell it to say "I'm glad you don't use animal products!" really makes me hesitant that using it would put people off!
> 
> Soy wax is an interesting idea. Is that the same as is used for candles?
> 
> I already use shea butter in my recipe, and I'd be hesitant to use too much in place of the palm as it doesn't contribute to lather or hardness (according to soapqueen anyway, heh). Maybe I should just stick with palm but use an organic version... it's so hard to find that perfect replacement.


Sometimes if not many times Soapqueen is wrong. I have a soap that I use 59% Shea with 12% CO 1.1% Sorbitol with 0.5% EDTA and Sodium Gluconate. It is a long-lasting bar that lathers really well after a 4-month cure. This is a bar I make as a facial bar but I have been using one as a bar of hand soap and it is wonderful. BTW I love Palm in soap and have absolutely not quilt feelings using it.


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## SudsyFox (Jul 3, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> Sometimes if not many times Soapqueen is wrong. I have a soap that I use 59% Shea with 12% CO 1.1% Sorbitol with 0.5% EDTA and Sodium Gluconate. It is a long-lasting bar that lathers really well after a 4-month cure. This is a bar I make as a facial bar but I have been using one as a bar of hand soap and it is wonderful. BTW I love Palm in soap and have absolutely not quilt feelings using it.



That's interesting, and good to know. I probably won't use that much % shea butter anyway as it's on the more expensive side for me. I don't have any particular qualms about palm oil myself because I do have a sustainably sourced brand (supposedly) but some people in my circles have raised concerns about it so that's why I'm looking into alternatives.


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## Catscankim (Jul 3, 2020)

Lard was my first soap. It is so inexpensive. And i have been using my first barst and they are awesome. Dont tell them its lard lol. Im not telling my sister!


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## MarnieSoapien (Jul 4, 2020)

When I first tried rapeseed wax, I tried it at 20% and hated it. It was too hard, too drying and felt a bit coarse. I've recently been experimenting with it again at 5% but haven't tried a bar yet. 
I also use shea butter at 20% because I love how it feels! I agree with PJ that you can always increase the olive oil to increase the hardness of your bars. Unfortunately the hardness isn't reflected in the lye calculators and it does require a longer cure time and it takes longer to unmold. But some people don't like high olive oil recipes because of slimy feeling they can have.


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## Orla (Jul 4, 2020)

SudsyFox said:


> Soy wax is an interesting idea. Is that the same as is used for candles?


In general, it is not the same as used for candles - as they are often still adding parrafin. I think you need to go towards the organic candle supplier people. I found one here in France:





						25kg Cire de soja européénne 100% vegetale pour bougies CONTAINER parfumées ou non. en plaques de 6cm environ.
					

25kg Cire de soja européénne 100% vegetale pour bougies CONTAINER parfumées ou non. en plaques de 6cm environ. - Latitude Nature, bougies en cire 100% naturelle fabriquees en france, natural wax french-made candles




					www.latitudenature.com
				



It's OGM-free. And 100% pure soya wax. 
I am sure you will find one in Canada, but I had to call L'Atitude Nature to make sure it was *100% hydrogenated* and *100% pure soya wax*. I can't give any feedback on the final product as I just made my first batch with it last night! But it seemed to go well and the soap looks fine - in fact very similar in every way to normal...


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## TheGecko (Jul 4, 2020)

SudsyFox said:


> Oh, and I'm hoping not to use lard or tallow as I have had people tell me they're glad I don't use any animal products in the soap.



Then they can pay for the cost of Babassu Oil...which come from a native Brazilian palm tree.

Other options include increasing your Coconut Oil up to 33%, but you'll need to balance the drying effects by either increasing your SuperFat or adding in moisturizing oils like Avocado or Sweet Almond Oil. You can increase your Shea Butter to 15% and add in Cocoa and/or Mango Butters.

I use RSPO certified Palm Oil and if folks don't like that I am supporting the fact that Palm Oil can be responsibly and sustainably produced or that I have been experimenting with Lard...that is THEIR problem and they can look elsewhere.  The simple fact is...you can please some of the people all of the time, or all of the people some of the time, but you cannot please all of the people all of time.


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