# Horse and Dog Shampoo Bars



## CherryGardenGirl (Mar 3, 2010)

Does anyone have experience making horse or dog shampoo bars???  How do you get the ph adjusted???


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## Hazel (Mar 6, 2010)

bump  

I'm interested in learning this, too.


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## dagmar88 (Mar 6, 2010)

I haven't made dog/horse soap; but I'm planning on using my 100% tallow soap on my dog when it's cured.
Adjusting PH isn't possible...


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## SoapyMom (Mar 6, 2010)

I don't adjust the ph on my pet soaps, and they turn out just great.  I even sell them to local vet clinics and grooming shops - everyone seems to love them, so I'm sure they will love yours too!


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## Hazel (Mar 6, 2010)

SoapyMom,

What oils do you use for dogs?


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## CherryGardenGirl (Mar 6, 2010)

Does homemade soap end up to be a neutral ph then???  

I did some reading about horse shampoos and supposedly the most gentle ones are neutral . . . although horses have a high-ish acid mantle.  Does citic acid help adjust the ph?

My horse gets serious hives from commercial equine shampoo, my dog has allergies, and I break out from their shampoos   If we can all use the same recipes it would solve everything!


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## SoapyMom (Mar 6, 2010)

I'm sure it has a lot to do with the ingredients you use in your bars.  My dogs don't have any allergies, but I have clients at the grooming shop whose dogs do have severe allergies, and cats, and they've never had a problem with my homemade shampoos.  I've used my shampoos on countless horses also, some of which had sensitive skin, and never had a problem with them either. 

My base is Olive oil, but I've used multiple other oils and never had any problems.  I don't use cream, because that tends to be too oily.  For the cats I find that olive oil doesn't work well either, because it's too oily.  It doesn't bother the skin at all, but it's oily.


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## Hazel (Mar 6, 2010)

I read somewhere that adding citric acid to soap doesn't work. You end up with a big ball of glop. (Yes, this is my technical vocabulary.    )

Perhaps using base oils which have a lower pH in the shampoo would help to lower it. I've seen meadowfoam oil listed in some natural dog shampoo recipes and I know it has a lower pH (4.1). Mountain Rose Herbs has really good educational oil profiles which list pH values. You could check out the oils you want to use. Don't forget that distilled water has a pH of 7 so that's fairly close to the pH that you want for dogs which I believe is 6.5 to 6.8.

http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/bulkoil/bulkoil.html

Also, did you see this discussion?

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/forum/vi ... hp?t=17185

Thanks SoapyMom for letting us know about the olive oil. It's pH is also 4.1 so there's another oil for you, CherryGardenGirl. We'll get this figured out.


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## SoapyMom (Mar 6, 2010)

So, y'all have me wondering now ... what exactly is the ph of my soaps?  I'm going to get some test strips either tonight or tomorrow and test it!  

What are the numbers I'm looking for for humans and pets?


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## Hazel (Mar 6, 2010)

SoapyMom said:
			
		

> So, y'all have me wondering now ... what exactly is the ph of my soaps?  I'm going to get some test strips either tonight or tomorrow and test it!
> 
> What are the numbers I'm looking for for humans and pets?



The skin's acid mantle tends to be between 4.5-5.5. If you go a little above, it's okay because normally the skin can balance itself within a short period of time. (Except for my skin, I generally always have to use a toner.    ) 

However, to clean the skin, products must have a higher pH which is why it's good to use a toner to restore the acidity of your skin. The acidity of the skin is your body's first defense against bacteria. 

Dogs' pH levels vary according to the breed - 6.5-8.6? Something like that. I've heard it's best to keep them at 6.8-7.0 so it would be okay to use on all breeds. Of course, breeds with more acidic skin would actually need a higher pH level to get clean. 

I know I've posted about this before and included links to info on dogs. I'll have to go hunt for that post.

Also, I'm not an expert on dogs. I'm learning along with everyone else.  

I typed in "dog and shampoo" into Search and still couldn't find the thread. But there is a lot of old discussions about dog shampoos if anyone wants to search.   

SoapyMom, I'd say if you're selling and there aren't any complaints then your shampoos probably have a good pH level.

I just realized that none of this is helping CherryGardenGirl with her horse shampoo.


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## Pepper (Mar 7, 2010)

Hazel, is your dog 3-legged,   8)   or is it just the way he's (she's) standing?


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## dagmar88 (Mar 7, 2010)

CherryGardenGirl said:
			
		

> Does homemade soap end up to be a neutral ph then???



Soap (including soapymoms soap) is always alkaline; with a PH from around 9.5 to 10.5.
If you would try to make the PH more neutral with an acidic substance (lemon juice, sulfur, vinegar) it would stop being soap eventually...

There's no way to influence this and PH strips are a waste of time and money (not accurate).

I'd say; come up with a mild recipe, don't wash your pets to often and you'll be fine.


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## carebear (Mar 7, 2010)

if you want to make a "soap" for animals you really need to think about using detergents (aka syndet = synthetic detergent) because these can be had at almost any pH.

if you use a highly alkaline soap (and the pH is going to be high as this is the NATURE of soap) it can be bad for the animal's skin.

doesn't matter if you use a more acidic oil - once it saponifies it's alkaline.  and adding an acidic oil won't shift the pH more than an iota.  Adding an acid will leave you with a sludge which is, sadly, no longer soap.

yes you will find people who say they use soap on their pets.  this doesn't make it a good idea.

The vets I know, by the way, wouldn't ever recommend true soap for use on animals, and the two groomers I just called said that real soap is not only bad for the skin leaving it dry and flaky but also dulls the coat.


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## Hazel (Mar 7, 2010)

Pepper said:
			
		

> Hazel, is your dog 3-legged,   8)   or is it just the way he's (she's) standing?



3 legged dog Max aka Tripod. Yeah, I know it's not original but that's what my BIL always called him. 

carebear quote: "Adding an acid will leave you with a sludge which is, sadly, no longer soap." 

That explains citric acid and "glop".   

Thanks carebear for the info. I did wonder how the saponification process would effect the pH of the oils because I did know that cleansers have to be slightly alkaline. I guess I won't try to make a shampoo bar for my dogs. I just don't like the smell of the ones I buy and I thought I could make one with a more pleasing scent. I guess it doesn't matter because bath time isn't that often and we bathe them as fast as we can since they act like we're torturing them. 

I'd also heard that pH strips aren't very accurate. I had bought some to test the pH of my lotions and creams. Is there something else I could use which would give me a more accurate reading?


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## carebear (Mar 7, 2010)

there are some great shampoo bases, and bodywash bases that you can get unfragranced - those might work for you.  detergents are your friend here.  I'm not sure which are really pet-safe, though.  You might start by reading up on the ingredients in commercial products.

FOs and EOs are potentially dangerous to an animal that licks it's fur.


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## Hazel (Mar 7, 2010)

carebear said:
			
		

> there are some great shampoo bases, and bodywash bases that you can get unfragranced - those might work for you.  detergents are your friend here.  I'm not sure which are really pet-safe, though.  You might start by reading up on the ingredients in commercial products.
> 
> FOs and EOs are potentially dangerous to an animal that licks it's fur.



That's a good point about the EOs. I didn't stop to think about it but I do have one cat that occasionally attempts to "groom" the dogs. I'd better not risk it. 

Hmm...but then again, he's a really obnoxious cat.  :wink:

I'm kidding. I really wouldn't want anything to happen to him.


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## Galavanting Gifts (Mar 7, 2010)

We use and sell our Happy Horse soap with excellent results. Our local animal shelter uses it on their shelter dogs and our local Horse riding school for their horses that suffer with Qld itch as does our customer on his Race horses after finding out the hard way with all the chemical products he was using on his New Zealand bloodline Standardbreds.

Although we have not specified it be used for dogs (only because we are looking at making one specifically for them) our customers as ourselves use it for that purpose without any issues except that on my softer longer coated dog it can leave his coat not oily but soft and dull but saying that he never had a shiny coat to start with. On our short haired dog her coat comes up beautiful as does her skin (she suffers badly from allergies).

We use Sesame, Grapeseed,castor oil,olive oil,sweet almond,coconut and palm oil.


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## Hazel (Mar 8, 2010)

Thanks for posting! So you just use oils? You don't use EOs?


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## Galavanting Gifts (Mar 8, 2010)

yep just oils no essential oils, we did start off using the Lavender EO in the soap but decided not to continue on with it, not for any particular reason though we just wanted to keep the bars plain althogh whe a customer requests a batch with Lavender EO in it we have no problem with doing so. We also used the same soap on our show goats with long hair.


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## Hazel (Mar 8, 2010)

I didn't think about not using EOs. Now I may reconsider making a bar.   

I don't know. I guess I'll put this idea off for awhile until I'm more confident in doing CP. The dogs only get bathed occasionally in the warmer months so this isn't an urgent topic. I'll also talk to my vet and the groomer and see what they say about shampoos.

Thanks for telling us about your shampoo.


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## Dahila (Aug 30, 2014)

I do not know much about shampoo bar for dogs, but i know that EO or any fragrance is bad for them.  Consider that they have 100 times better sense of smell than we have.  I used on my dogs (boxers) simple shampoo and rinced them with AC, solution.  Of course I would not do it just before Show due to less shiny coat.  I do believe that mild soap unscented one is good for dogs.  
After their coat is dry, put some (few drops) olive oil in your palm and rubbed together, and pet your dogs from the head to the end of tail once each area.  No problem with the dry dull coat. 
When the dog is dirty and there is not due a bath, sponge them with lemony water,


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## Earthen_Step (Aug 31, 2014)

Dahila said:


> I do not know much about shampoo bar for dogs, but i know that EO or any fragrance is bad for them. * Consider that they have 100 times better sense of smell than we have.*  I used on my dogs (boxers) simple shampoo and rinced them with AC, solution.  Of course I would not do it just before Show due to less shiny coat.  I do believe that mild soap unscented one is good for dogs.
> After their coat is dry, put some (few drops) olive oil in your palm and rubbed together, and pet your dogs from the head to the end of tail once each area.  No problem with the dry dull coat.
> When the dog is dirty and there is not due a bath, sponge them with lemony water,



I assumed that first.  I found so many people adding EO's to their dog shampoo bars it must be ok for most dogs?

From what I have gathered for a pet shampoo bar you would want the PH close to 7.  For human shampoo you want 5-6.5.  For human skin bars, 6-10.5 since we create our own acidic layer out of sebum.  This sebum has fully restored your skin in about 3 hours.

With dogs you can use some EO's,  lot's of people seem to use insect repellent types.  For cat's you are much safer using no EO, they can have problems with many kinds.  Might be funny to use catnip as a pet EO?

I'm in the works of figuring out a great shampoo bar, after I master that i'll tinker with pet bars.  I have shampoo micro batch #4 or #5 curing right now!  Can't wait to try it.


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## Dahila (Sep 1, 2014)

When you try let me know please,  I am still against eo for pets,  When the dog is dry the hair does not stink anymore.  I had judging and breeding boxers well over 30 year, observing their reaction to different smells was an eye opening for me.


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## Obsidian (Sep 1, 2014)

I don't really care for regular shampoo bars for the dogs but I make a 25% neem shower bar that works great on them. They are clean, shiny and have no wet dog sell after the bath. Its unscented.


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## Carla Burke (Nov 20, 2019)

Galavanting Gifts said:


> We use and sell our Happy Horse soap with excellent results. Our local animal shelter uses it on their shelter dogs and our local Horse riding school for their horses that suffer with Qld itch as does our customer on his Race horses after finding out the hard way with all the chemical products he was using on his New Zealand bloodline Standardbreds.
> 
> Although we have not specified it be used for dogs (only because we are looking at making one specifically for them) our customers as ourselves use it for that purpose without any issues except that on my softer longer coated dog it can leave his coat not oily but soft and dull but saying that he never had a shiny coat to start with. On our short haired dog her coat comes up beautiful as does her skin (she suffers badly from allergies).
> 
> We use Sesame, Grapeseed,castor oil,olive oil,sweet almond,coconut and palm oil.


Thank you!


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## shunt2011 (Nov 21, 2019)

Carla Burke said:


> Thank you!



This post is extremely old.  The OP hasn't been here since 2011.


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## Carla Burke (Nov 21, 2019)

shunt2011 said:


> This post is extremely old.  The OP hasn't been here since 2011.


Apparently, I need to re-read the site rules. I thought surely expressing my gratitude for great information would be an acceptable way to keep track of posts I'd like to be able to reference, later on.


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## shunt2011 (Nov 21, 2019)

Carla Burke said:


> Apparently, I need to re-read the site rules. I thought surely expressing my gratitude for great information would be an acceptable way to keep track of posts I'd like to be able to reference, later on.



This may help. 

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/smf-culture-and-tone.56833/


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## artemis (Nov 21, 2019)

Carla Burke said:


> ... would be an acceptable way to keep track of posts I'd like to be able to reference, later on.



Above the top-most post there is a button that says "watch thread." Click that, and later you can go back to it by clicking "watched threads" at the very top of the screen


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## DeeAnna (Nov 21, 2019)

I guarantee once you post on a hundred threads or more, it will be near impossible to wade through them all to find one particular thread. 

Watching a thread works far better if you want to bookmark a thread for future reference. You can unwatch a thread, so you can weed out watched threads that aren't useful anymore. You can't end your participation in any thread after you post, so the valuable threads get buried in the not-so-valuable ones.


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## Carla Burke (Nov 21, 2019)

Really, I get it. I looked it up. I read the stuff. Can we let this dead horse go in peace now, please?


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## shunt2011 (Nov 22, 2019)

Carla Burke said:


> Really, I get it. I looked it up. I read the stuff. Can we let this dead horse go in peace now, please?



They were just trying to help you navigate and give suggestions as our kind members try to do most the time.  No reason to be rude about it.


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## Carla Burke (Nov 22, 2019)

shunt2011 said:


> They were just trying to help you navigate and give suggestions as our kind members try to do most the time.  No reason to be rude about it.


 And, I wasn't meaning to be rude - to anyone. My thought process was, if the issue is about reviving a dead thread, and I'm hitting the 'like' button, to let folks know I've read their posts, and I'm trying not to add more posts, in an effort to let the thread go back into the abyss of history... ok. I'm not posting in this thread, again. Not trying to be nasty or snarky. Honestly, I'm just trying to let it go.


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