# Lotion turned out frothy



## CastileAway (Sep 15, 2008)

I'm trying to make a lotion (or cream) and used about 41% oils (heated to 170 and maintained) , 47% water phase (heated to same and maintained), 5% emulsifier (Olivem 1000) and another 5% of oil not added until it cooled down to about 110 degrees (seabuckthorn) and 2% powder also not added until cool down. I also added some dead sea salt to the hot water.

I then used a stick blender and continued for several minutes until I felt it was completely blended. Then poured into a cup. I could tell there were a lot of bubbles trapped so I tapped the cup on the counter for a few minutes until no more bubbles came up.

I have two problems. 

One is that it did not stay completely emulsified. There seems to be a browner oil on the bottom that appeared after a couple hours of sitting. All of the oils in the hot phase blended into a yellow (like vegetable oil). So I'm thinking it might be the seabuckthorn (which is reddish) and the powders (orange and brown) that were added during the cool down phase.

So I'm thinking it's those ingredients because of their color as well as the fact they were added during the cool down phase. Does that make sense? And if so, what can I do as I have read those ingredients are to be added at cool down. Specifically the Seabuckthorn and the Green Tea powder. The other powders I have not seen any instructions for, so I just added them at cool down since the green tea powder was.

The other problem is that the whole thing is pretty frothy. I guess it's because of the stick blender adding air, but I thought it was standard to use a stick blender. Is frothy an indication of something specific, such as too-much/not-enough of something such as water, emulsifier, etc.? Or would a certain ingredient such as dead sea salt have that effect?

Any advice?
Thank you


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## Deda (Sep 15, 2008)

I wish I had an answer for you, but I have yet to keep a stable emulsion longer than a few months at best without using HLB.  I hardly ever use self-emulsifiers any more.  

I tried to find a HLB value for Olivem 1000, but there doesn't seem to be one. Perhaps if you contact the supplier they can give you the value?


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## Becky (Sep 16, 2008)

I'm not the most experienced at making creams & lotions, but here goes...

When I mix the phases together, I stickblend, then let it rest, then stickblend, then let it rest, then stickblend...I stickblend every 10 mins or so until it starts to cool & thicken. This may help with your separation issue - you may just not have blended often or long enough.

As for the froth, once it is cool & thick enough to stop stickblending, I find I can simply stir the air & bubbles out of it - they won't affect the finished product.

Hope that helps!!


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## CastileAway (Sep 16, 2008)

Thanks for the help, both of you.

I'll try to find the HLB rating and try an intermittent blending pattern.

But otherwise, no one else has problems with ingredients added during cool down not emulsifying?


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## soap_lady (Sep 17, 2008)

I've never used olivem 1000 before so I can't say anything about that product or how it's used or the outcome of the final product.

But you don't mention a thickener such as stearic acid being used?

But I'm guessing the salt might be the issue.   A long time ago I tried to make an Epsom salt cream because it's highly recommend for those with fibromyalgia and I have a close friend who was diagnosed with it.   And I had horrible issues with separation.   And I didn't go back to try and figure out how to make it right because she found a commercial made product that helped.   I don't believe i had issues with bubbles but i couldn't get it to stay emulsified and used both emulsifying wax and stearic acid in recipe.   I ended up just throwing the whole mess out.


When I make my lotions and creams I keep all the oils from the oil phase together and the other ingredients for the water phase together, and when I mix them together I don't add additional oils.   (I do add other miscellaneous ingredients, but not any other liquids or oils.)

Does my experience help at all?


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## CastileAway (Sep 23, 2008)

Yes, thank you for the additional input.

I will try the formula again without the salt this time and see what comes up.

I did not use any thickeners as I'm trying to keep the formula as simple as possible to avoid irritating ingredients. I do have some thickeners though that I have yet to try that I believe should be non-irritating or allergenic. Guar, Xantham and rice powder. 

So you've never added an oil at a cool down phase? I guess that happens a lot, but what if the ingredient is recommended to not be heated up.

Such as Sea Buckthorn which TheHerbarie recommends to be added at cool down temperatures.


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## CastileAway (Sep 24, 2008)

I guess another thing I should do is reduce my lipid levels to something around 20-25%. Don't remember what I was thinking when I made it so high. Must have seen it somewhere.


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