# Lard Vs Palm



## Soulboy1973 (Oct 1, 2019)

Hi Gang,
Quicky...Can Lard be substituted for Palm in most CP recipies and are the qualities of the soap similar? 
Thanks.
Wayne.


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## jcandleattic (Oct 1, 2019)

Soulboy1973 said:


> Hi Gang,
> Quicky...Can Lard be substituted for Palm in most CP recipies and are the qualities of the soap similar?
> Thanks.
> Wayne.


Short answer, yes. But still run it through a lye calculator for lye amounts. 
Also, make sure it's Palm and not Palm Kernal.


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## Baqn (Oct 1, 2019)

Theoretically you can substitute Lard with Palm. They are almost 50/50 SAT/UNSAT fatty acids. They are both soft oils at room temperature. The difference is that Lard has more Stearic acid and Palm Oil has more Palmitic acid as saturated FA. I think that Palm would move slower than Lard oil. And don't forget to recalculate your LYE!


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## dibbles (Oct 1, 2019)

Baqn said:


> I think that Palm would move slower than Lard oil. And don't forget to recalculate your LYE!


Actually, lard moves slower than palm, at least in my experience. One of the many reasons I like soaping with it. @Soulboy1973  you can absolutely replace palm oil with lard. As the others have said, just run the recipe through a soap calculator.


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## Dawni (Oct 2, 2019)

jcandleattic said:


> Short answer, yes. But still run it through a lye calculator for lye amounts.
> Also, make sure it's Palm and not Palm Kernal.


And not Palm Olein. I found most of ours from the supermarket is labeled palm, but the info on the back says palm olein.


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## Arimara (Oct 2, 2019)

jcandleattic said:


> Short answer, yes. But still run it through a lye calculator for lye amounts.
> *Also, make sure it's Palm and not Palm Kernal*.



Commit that to memory. You do not want to use a soap with 30%+ palm kernal oil.


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## Mistrael (Oct 3, 2019)

Arimara said:


> Commit that to memory. You do not want to use a soap with 30%+ palm kernal oil.


Okay, I have to ask the noob question... What would happen with 30% palm kernel oil?


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## Michele50 (Oct 3, 2019)

dibbles said:


> Actually, lard moves slower than palm, at least in my experience. One of the many reasons I like soaping with it. @Soulboy1973  you can absolutely replace palm oil with lard. As the others have said, just run the recipe through a soap calculator.


I've had the same results as you @dibbles with lard moving slower than palm. And like using it for the same reason you do.


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## Baqn (Oct 3, 2019)

Well it was my mistake because initially I understood that she want to substitute Palm with Lard. At the end of the post I realized that I have to edit it. I also agree Lard moves slower than Palm.


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## amd (Oct 3, 2019)

Mistrael said:


> What would happen with 30% palm kernel oil?


I haven't used PKO, but my understanding is that it is very similar to CO. If my understanding is correct, it would be a drying soap - especially if you already have CO in the recipe as well.


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## shunt2011 (Oct 3, 2019)

Mistrael said:


> Okay, I have to ask the noob question... What would happen with 30% palm kernel oil?



I sometimes use PKO in conjunction with CO.  I use a higher amount of PKO than CO.  They are both cleansing as amd stated so you don't want to go too high with it.


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## Soulboy1973 (Oct 3, 2019)

Dawni said:


> And not Palm Olein. I found most of ours from the supermarket is labeled palm, but the info on the back says palm olein.


I have got my Palm from a specialist Soap making supplier here in the UK.


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## Liesel Atwood (Oct 3, 2019)

amd said:


> I haven't used PKO, but my understanding is that it is very similar to CO. If my understanding is correct, it would be a drying soap - especially if you already have CO in the recipe as well.


     I too have read that PKO is very similar to coconut. I  made a soap using both of these oils together.  It turned out pretty well, as far as I can tell,  with a 20% superfat.  However, the recipe also had some shea and sweet almond, I think.  Moved very quickly with all those hard oils!  That's just my personal experience  though.  Perhaps others have had different results.


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## Soulboy1973 (Oct 3, 2019)

I have run a recipe I recived from a kind member here through Soap Calc and replaced the Palm with Lard. No difference in the Water/Lye ratio and only a couple of numbers off on the hardness scale. I'll make a batch up as the difference between Palm and Lard moneywise is massive.


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## cmzaha (Oct 3, 2019)

Palm Kernel is approx 2% less in cleansing value than CO. I like using CO/PKO 50/50 in my soaps. As for Palm, it will move your batter much faster than Lard. I have DOS issues with Lard so I use it at a rate of approx 22% and 40-45% Tallow. I will adjust the CO/PKO accordingly since Tallow has a cleansing value of around 8% and Lard 1%. This info is from soap calculators, so like anything is it an average. 

My vegan recipe with 40% palm moves very quickly, and my non-vegan with tallow/lard moves much slower. In my vegan recipe I do cut the Castor oil to 3% or use no castor if I want more than 2 swirl colors. I ran some tests with the same palm recipe varying the castor oil and found even 1% can change how fast it traces. It was pretty enlightening how fast castor can accelerate trace.


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## Arimara (Oct 3, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> Palm Kernel is approx 2% less in cleansing value than CO. I like using CO/PKO 50/50 in my soaps. As for Palm, it will move your batter much faster than Lard. I have DOS issues with Lard so I use it at a rate of approx 22% and 40-45% Tallow. I will adjust the CO/PKO accordingly since Tallow has a cleansing value of around 8% and Lard 1%. This info is from soap calculators, so like anything is it an average.
> 
> My vegan recipe with 40% palm moves very quickly, and my non-vegan with tallow/lard moves much slower. In my vegan recipe I do cut the Castor oil to 3% or use no castor if I want more than 2 swirl colors. I ran some tests with the same palm recipe varying the castor oil and found even 1% can change how fast it traces. It was pretty enlightening how fast castor can accelerate trace.



I think my skin just hates anything palm. I've found PKO to be more drying  for me than CO. Babassu has always been the most deceptively gentle for me (I still kept that oil around 20% in soap).

@Mistrael the others have answered your question concerning the PKO. I don't think there is much else to add.


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## Michele50 (Oct 3, 2019)

Arimara said:


> "....Babassu has always been the most deceptively gentle for me (I still kept that oil around 20% in soap)...."


I'd love to give Babassu oil a try but  the cost!!!!


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## Arimara (Oct 3, 2019)

Michele50 said:


> I'd love to give Babassu oil a try but  the cost!!!!


It's a nice soaping oil that should only be gifted to loved ones given the price. Wait for Brambleberry to have a sale or a shipping fee discount to try that oil. Ordering from a supplier closer to you can also help stave off shipping, especially if you have the option to pick it up. I've ordered it from Camden Grey and Brambleberry and the latter has better packaging for it but the former is less expensive per pound of oils. Of course, Camden grey does have a minimum purchase requirement of $30 give or take.


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## amd (Oct 3, 2019)

Okay... so I've been doing some vegan recipe experiments. I put a bar of my first test recipe (approx 5 weeks old) into the shower last night. This recipe was a 1:1 sub palm in place tallow. It's weird. The soap bar itself feels a bit tacky and waxy. It lathered most unusual as well compared to my tallow recipe. It had a lot of big fluffy bubbles at the beginning (like first 5 seconds between the hands) and then the big bubbles dissipated and a nice creamy lather formed that quickly vanished. I thought it was odd, so rinsed and repeated, same bubble then lather formation. I didn't mind it, it just was different. My regular recipe usually has medium sized bubbles and the lather is more stable. As far as using it, it didn't dry out my super dry skin and was very clean rinsing.

All of that just to let you know: yes soap will be different if you switch from palm to lard (tallow). A bad different, probably not.


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## Michele50 (Oct 3, 2019)

Arimara said:


> It's a nice soaping oil that should only be gifted to loved ones given the price. Wait for Brambleberry to have a sale or a shipping fee discount to try that oil. Ordering from a supplier closer to you can also help stave off shipping, especially if you have the option to pick it up. I've ordered it from Camden Grey and Brambleberry and the latter has better packaging for it but the former is less expensive per pound of oils. Of course, Camden grey does have a minimum purchase requirement of $30 give or take.


Lol, $30 wouldn't be a problem; when I've ordered from Brambleberry it's usually $100-$200. And, yes, their orders are* so well packed* to ensure no breakage while in transit. I'll have to check out  Camden Grey: haven't heard about that one. The Christmas before, I got two free stick blenders from Bramble Berry because both my hubby and son allowed me to pick out what I wanted and both spent about $150 on me. Each order met the dollar amount to receive a free stick blender..........so I got two!! Any place I've purchased soaping supplies from has been over $30; I think it's because I order a bunch at a time that I start running out of things about the same time........or I like to tell myself that


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## cmzaha (Oct 3, 2019)

Arimara said:


> I think my skin just hates anything palm. I've found PKO to be more drying  for me than CO. Babassu has always been the most deceptively gentle for me (I still kept that oil around 20% in soap).


That is interesting since Babassu is a type of Palm


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## Michele50 (Oct 3, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> That is interesting since Babassu is a type of Palm


Yes, and *much more* expensive than 'palm' palm oil. I know that nuts from the babassu palm (Attalea speciosa) are one of the hardest nuts in the world to crack open and more difficult access since they grow in the denser parts of the jungle. Anything that requires more work to get to, transport, and extract will add to the cost.


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## Arimara (Oct 4, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> That is interesting since Babassu is a type of Palm


It does have some different characteristics. It's like Avocado- I definitely would not use the smooth-skinned ones from Florida for guacamole just because it is an avocado.


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