# Fun with mp!



## Laurabolyard (Feb 24, 2018)

i decided I wanted to play and try mp, so I went to Michaels with a coupon and picked some up. It was definitely soothing to play and not be rushed, but is this stuff even soap??  Lol!


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## SoapAddict415 (Feb 24, 2018)

I plan to play with mp today too. I had a request for Batman soap from my oldest son. I love your colors! They remind me of summer.


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## lsg (Feb 24, 2018)

Great looking soap.


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## Laurabolyard (Feb 24, 2018)

Thank you, my son says it cheating!!  I have to agree, to a point!  It was fun, no pressure!


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## jcandleattic (Feb 27, 2018)

Laurabolyard said:


> Thank you, my son says it cheating!!  I have to agree, to a point!  It was fun, no pressure!


How do you mean cheating? As in you are using a base? That's not cheating. It's all soap, and M&P did at one point have to go through a CP type of process to become M&P. Just because you didn't do that part doesn't mean it's cheating.


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## Laurabolyard (Feb 28, 2018)

jcandleattic said:


> How do you mean cheating? As in you are using a base? That's not cheating. It's all soap, and M&P did at one point have to go through a CP type of process to become M&P. Just because you didn't do that part doesn't mean it's cheating.


I 'get' what he means though!  Kind of like buying salsa in a jar vs. making it yourself...  it's still salsa, although it doesn't have as many of the personal touches that you would have added, having made it yourself!!  I like being able to still have salsa even when I'm too busy to make it myself (expanding on the metaphor!)!  It was fun, I enjoyed it. I found it to be stress relief!!


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## jcandleattic (Mar 1, 2018)

Laurabolyard said:


> I 'get' what he means though!  Kind of like buying salsa in a jar vs. making it yourself...  it's still salsa, although it doesn't have as many of the personal touches that you would have added, having made it yourself!!  I like being able to still have salsa even when I'm too busy to make it myself (expanding on the metaphor!)!  It was fun, I enjoyed it. I found it to be stress relief!!


I don't know, I guess I just don't equate M&P as 'cheating' or not being "real" soap, which seems to be a common conception in the CP soaping community. There are people who can do things with M&P that I would never in a million years be able to do. 
JMO though


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## Laurabolyard (Mar 1, 2018)

Jcandleattic, I have been watching tons of videos, so cool!  I went and bought some more!  I just LOVE the amethyst geode-looking soaps, I can't WAIT to give those a try!!


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## jcandleattic (Mar 1, 2018)

Laurabolyard said:


> Jcandleattic, I have been watching tons of videos, so cool!  I went and bought some more!  I just LOVE the amethyst geode-looking soaps, I can't WAIT to give those a try!!


Right? there is so much creativity that can be done with M&P.


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## Troy (Mar 1, 2018)

jcandleattic said:


> There are people who can do things with M&P that I would never in a million years be able to do.
> JMO though



I think it's amazing some of these melt and pour bars people are making. I, myself am going to be trying to make the cupcake soaps or birthday soaps with layers....  Very excited. Will post photos later on once I have some completed. I just got all my new supplies in. Yea!!! me.....


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## Keds45 (Mar 4, 2018)

That soap is fantastic!! I've made mp for years and am getting into cp. I think they both have their advantages. Personally, I really love the beautiful stained glass and color effects you can get with mp!


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## Laurabolyard (Mar 7, 2018)

Me too!!  I love the glassy and/or opalescent effect, lovely!!  I feel that one can really get colors to POP!!


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## ilovebathing (Mar 7, 2018)

I just actually made a batch of transparent clear melt and pour for an art project and it was a nervous feeling at first.   I've wanted to try it hardcore method, lucky that I found this recipe from Good Earth Spa, Bonnie who explained it in detail.  Can't wait to do the easy stuff now!


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## Kamahido (Mar 7, 2018)

SoapAddict415 said:


> I plan to play with mp today too. I had a request for Batman soap from my oldest son. I love your colors! They remind me of summer.


I saw this about a week ago on reddit...

https://www.reddit.com/r/soapmaking/comments/818ah1/batman_soaps/


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## SoapAddict415 (Mar 8, 2018)

Kamahido, those are so cool! I could do that! Here's pics of the ones I made. I think my embeds would be larger than the ones on Reddit but it could work.




Sent from my Z828 using Soap Making mobile app


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## Laurabolyard (Mar 19, 2018)

I am just LOVING using up my soap scraps into a MP!  Anyone know the best deals on MP?  I've been doing Micheals when they have a 50%off


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## lyschelw (Apr 24, 2018)

I view CP, HP and MP as different forms of art.  You just can't do some of the things with CP and HP that you can do with MP (and visa versa). 

Love seeing all the fun soaps!  

@Laurabolyard Your scrap soaps remind me of something.  Art pieces-Like "The Scream".  Impressionist.  Love them.


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## amd (Apr 24, 2018)

I'm going to confess to being one of those soapers who called M&P "cheating"... until I tried it in December. I was bound and determined that all of my embeds were going to be CP. A lot of work calculating for molds and batter and I always wound up with too much or not enough. I tried M&P as a project with my daughter in December... well... I no longer call it cheating. It's a lifesaver! So much time saved, and even if I do end up short, its not a big deal to melt a little bit more. I did switch to detergent free base though, just to make myself feel better about the "not really soap" part of it. hahaha The silly things we think when we really don't know better...


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## Lin19687 (Apr 26, 2018)

I pick up a blop of MP tomrrow.  Can't wait to play with it.
How do you label MP ?


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## jcandleattic (Apr 26, 2018)

Lin19687 said:


> I pick up a blop of MP tomrrow.  Can't wait to play with it.
> How do you label MP ?


I believe M&P falls under a cosmetic for labelling so you have to list all ingredients.


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## Lin19687 (Apr 26, 2018)

TY  that is what I thought.


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## earlene (Apr 26, 2018)

*Lin*, depending on both the composition of the base you use, possibly coupled with the claims you make about your resulting soap, are what determines if your soap will be considered to be a cosmetic or a true soap, and therefore dictate your labeling requirements.

I would refer you to this blog post by Marie Gale for more detail:

http://www.mariegale.com/melt-pour-soap-soap-cosmetic/


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## Lin19687 (Apr 26, 2018)

Oh I know that soap is soap, I make no claims other then that.   Just was wondering what others put for MP.
I guess I should have realized that it was considered a Cosmetic (and to be labeled as such)

I saw somewhere where someone didn't label it because it was "Soap" which would be correct if it was just soap but I didn't think it was correct.

Thanks for the Link !!


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## amd (Apr 26, 2018)

I took a quick peek at Royalty Soaps ingredient list - she uses M&P embeds in her cold process soaps - and there is no mention of the M&P ingredients. When I do mine, I list them separately as

Soap Ingredients: [insert ingredients here]
Embed Ingredients: [insert list from M&P label here, plus whatever color & fragrance I add at the end because I don't where else to put it]

@Lin19687 I don't make cosmetic claims for my soaps, so I follow the general guidelines for soap, not the cosmetic guidelines. People ask me if I make soap for dry skin and I respond "I make soap to get you clean."

ETA: I'm not sure that's right, but more upfront and honest than Royalty Soaps....


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## cmzaha (Apr 26, 2018)

Some of the bases my daughter used were soap and some were not, so we labeled accordingly. She used soap bases from 2 different companies

I also answer that soap is made to get you clean, when I am asked for eczema soap, etc. I do fully label and if they ask for moisturizing soap I simply tell them my soap should not dry their skin, and have some very nice lotions available


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## Lin19687 (Apr 26, 2018)

Well learned a little bit more. 
That person that labeled her M&P just soap could have correct depending on what the base was made from.  TY again.
My base would be soap, not cosmetic as I didn't get the one with all the 'other stuff' in it, just soap.

I never make claims either.  It is a wash off product for cleaning you.


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## jcandleattic (Apr 26, 2018)

Even though I don't make claims, and even when I made my own M&P (that was just soap, no syndet's or anything other than glycerin that wasn't in my main recipe was in it), for my own peace of mind, and for transparency for the customers that wanted to know, I always label my soaps. Even when I sold them nekkid, I would always hand out a label/ingredient list with each soap.


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## Lin19687 (Apr 26, 2018)

Yes, sorry I do label my soaps. But I get them pre-made, sticky, and put on the wrapper.
This M&P that I will be doing, only because I am not stocked for this free show, will have Biz cards with ingredients on the back to go with it.
well that is if I can get the M&P to look like I like   1st time playing with it.


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## earlene (Apr 26, 2018)

Yes, I agree that labeling should include all ingredients, but I also know that not everyone does because they don't have to list every ingredient in all cases.

Additionally, when the question is 'Is this soap?' or 'How should it be labeled?', or some of the answers suggest 'it's always (xxx)' then I feel it is prudent to look back at the actual regulations that define 'what is soap' and 'what labeling requirements' exist surrounding the product in question.  It also helps to have experts like Marie Gale, who can more clearly answer those kinds of questions in fairly easy to understand laymen's terms as well.

Knowing what is really required, does not mean you can't go further and list all ingredients.  Of course you can and as a consumer, I would prefer that everyone did.

ETA: most of what I say regarding regulations (Marie Gale, included) are as they pertain to the USA, because that is where I live.  I have very little knowledge of EU requirements or other locations on this topic, but I know they are more stringent in some regards (maybe all.)


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## soap1daze (May 28, 2018)

I agree that regulations need to be followed depending on your location and keeping your market in mind ie European standards if selling overseas.  I like know what is in my soap and I like sharing that information with my customers.  Is there a section for m and p photos I have a few to share but mostly I'm a cp soapmaker!


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## Relle (May 29, 2018)

You can post your M&P photos in the Photo Gallery, it is not specific to CP. https://www.soapmakingforum.com/forums/the-photo-gallery.22/


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## soap1daze (May 29, 2018)

Thanks so much.  I just learned to do a profile pic.  Always learning!


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## happyshopper (Jun 6, 2018)

I think the idea from M&P being 'cheating' is if you just make a simple bar of soap (one colour, solid block) in both M&P and CP. The melt and pour would be cheating as all you do is heat/colour and mold, the CP takes a lot more effort.

However when you start to compare the two when fancy designs come into play, its certainly not cheating as M&P can produce some really creative soaps, more effort can be put into creating those than their CP equivalents.


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## seaberry (Jun 6, 2018)

Laurabolyard said:


> View attachment 29395
> I am just LOVING using up my soap scraps into a MP!  Anyone know the best deals on MP?  I've been doing Micheals when they have a 50%off



WSP offers it on sale occasionally.    I get the 5lb tubs at michaels with coupon to make popsicles and cupcakes


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## I_like_melts (Jun 8, 2018)

MP is an art of its own - especially when you start customizing your recipes. There is a fine line between soap and cosmetic. If you live in an area where you cannot produce/sell cosmetics, you will have to carefully research the ingredients. Most detergent-free MP bases are considered soap, provided you don't make claims. If you are soley worried about labeling for FDA purposes, I say it's better safe than sorry. I'm in FL (I can only make "soap" at home) and still list ingredients (EVEN ON GIFTS)


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## CaraBou (Jun 8, 2018)

Very cool Laura. I've only melted once, but it was fun to work with - and challenging too.  But man did it sweat - is there any way to control that?


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## jcandleattic (Jun 8, 2018)

happyshopper said:


> I think the idea from M&P being 'cheating' is if you just make a simple bar of soap (one colour, solid block) in both M&P and CP. The melt and pour would be cheating as all you do is heat/colour and mold, the CP takes a lot more effort.


I sincerely do not agree with that. It's still takes effort if even not as much as other soap forms. But that's JMO and we all have our own. 



CaraBou said:


> Very cool Laura. I've only melted once, but it was fun to work with - and challenging too.  But man did it sweat - is there any way to control that?


You can wrap it tightly with cling/saran wrap, use low sweat formulas, etc, but if you live in high humid areas, wrapping is the only thing IMO that helps.


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## happyshopper (Jun 8, 2018)

jcandleattic said:


> I sincerely do not agree with that. It's still takes effort if even not as much as other soap forms. But that's JMO and we all have our own.



Yes it takes effort if you add extra ingredients/additives, or make a fancy design.

But just to put some in a jug in a microwave, melt, add a drop of colouring and pour into a mould. Not much effort in that as far as I am concerned   Not thats theres anything wrong in doing that, I am currently doing just so with melt and pour but I wouldn't describe it as making soap.


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## jcandleattic (Jun 8, 2018)

happyshopper said:


> But just to put some in a jug in a microwave, melt, add a drop of colouring and pour into a mould. Not much effort in that as far as I am concerned   Not thats theres anything wrong in doing that, I am currently doing just so with melt and pour but I wouldn't describe it as making soap.


Okay, yes, it is much less effort, but I just don't equate less effort with "cheating" - it is still creating something from something else, so there is still creativity there, even if it is just pouring into a mold. 
That's all I'm saying. I never will think of M&P - regardless of effort - as cheating. To me, and IMO that is just an unfair assessment to soapmakers that make M&P.,


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## Kelsey O'Malley (Jun 13, 2018)

Does anyone know anything about mixing other oils with a glycerin M&P soap base? Something like castor oil to make it more bubbly?


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## cmzaha (Jun 13, 2018)

I totally agree with Jcandleattic, m&p is not cheating and it is not especially easy to work with. My daughter excelled at it and I cannot even pour a decent plain bar. I would also say my daughter put more work into her m&p than I do with my cp. At times she had to mix bases to accomplish what she wanted, so it is not put in a jug, heat and pour happyshopper. No one has said it is making soap unless they make their own m&p base, which I have made, but it is another form of a beautiful art. Ever seen some of the m&p out there? Some are gorgeous


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## Ladylather (Jun 13, 2018)

Laurabolyard said:


> View attachment 29395
> I am just LOVING using up my soap scraps into a MP!  Anyone know the best deals on MP?  I've been doing Micheals when they have a 50%off



Really pretty soaps!


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## I_like_melts (Jun 13, 2018)

Kelsey O'Malley said:


> Does anyone know anything about mixing other oils with a glycerin M&P soap base? Something like castor oil to make it more bubbly?



Yes. You're base should have a percentage of "other oils" rating. FOR EXAMPLE, this information was taken from a listing for Crafter's Choice Detergent-Free Citrus Soap.

*Country of Origin: *United States
*Composition:* TBD Naturally Derived Ingredients
*Maximum Fragrance:* 3% (Follow IFRA Guidelines)
*Maximum Total Fluid Additives:* 6% 
*Maximum Heating Temperature:* 160º F
*Recommended Container:* Air Tight Wrap 

According to this, you need to stay under 6% including fragrance. Castor oil can be added to 10% in many recipes, so you will need to adjust accordingly. (3% castor, 3% fragarance)


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## kirkwill (Jun 14, 2018)

I do not think in anyway M&P is cheating. I create a completely different and customized soap.












Kleanz Soaps



__ kirkwill
__ Jun 14, 2018


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## Lin19687 (Jun 15, 2018)

You don't add oils to MP


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## earlene (Jun 15, 2018)

Kelsey O'Malley said:


> Does anyone know anything about mixing other oils with a glycerin M&P soap base? Something like castor oil to make it more bubbly?





I_like_melts said:


> Yes. You're base should have a percentage of "other oils" rating. FOR EXAMPLE, this information was taken from a listing for Crafter's Choice Detergent-Free Citrus Soap.
> 
> *Country of Origin: *United States
> *Composition:* TBD Naturally Derived Ingredients
> ...



I don't have a ton of experience with MP other than what's available at Michael's or Hobby Lobby and only a few times.  But I did notice a huge loss of bubbly-ness when I added only a little bit of oil (mixed my mica with oil for a technique challenge) in a clear glycerine base. 

I did not look for the ratings that *I_like_melts* posted about above.  It probably would have been a good idea to check on that.  Anyway, I don't like the resulting soap, so plan to re-batch it at some point.


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## cmzaha (Jun 15, 2018)

I_like_melts said:


> Yes. You're base should have a percentage of "other oils" rating. FOR EXAMPLE, this information was taken from a listing for Crafter's Choice Detergent-Free Citrus Soap.
> 
> *Country of Origin: *United States
> *Composition:* TBD Naturally Derived Ingredients
> ...


It is not telling you that you need to add anything to the base, it is giving you the max load it can contain. All m&p base is made to melt and pour without any additions. Hence the name.... Adding extra oils to m&p deters lather and castor does not make m&p lather better. Extracts in small amounts do work as does jojoba beads, oatmeal, activated charcoal, etc

Look up some of their other bases and you will not see anything listed


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## I_like_melts (Jun 16, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> It is not telling you that you need to add anything to the base, it is giving you the max load it can contain. All m&p base is made to melt and pour without any additions. Hence the name.... Adding extra oils to m&p deters lather and castor does not make m&p lather better. Extracts in small amounts do work as does jojoba beads, oatmeal, activated charcoal, etc
> 
> Look up some of their other bases and you will not see anything listed


 
I was using castor as an example 

I've worked with castor. It makes it slipperier. .. i think thats a good word for it.


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## Ladylather (Jul 7, 2018)

jcandleattic said:


> I don't know, I guess I just don't equate M&P as 'cheating' or not being "real" soap, which seems to be a common conception in the CP soaping community. There are people who can do things with M&P that I would never in a million years be able to do.
> JMO though



Totally agree with you, jcandleattic....

Some Melt N Pour swirls I've done.... you do a lot of creative things with it


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## dbloomingdale (Sep 5, 2018)

MP is not cheating.  I do both CP and MP.  I enjoy doing both.  It is easier to be creative with MP.  And those who are creative with CP have my up most respect.  You can make some really cool and beautiful soaps with MP.


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## Linda Lee Maurer (Oct 17, 2018)

Laurabolyard said:


> I 'get' what he means though!  Kind of like buying salsa in a jar vs. making it yourself...  it's still salsa, although it doesn't have as many of the personal touches that you would have added, having made it yourself!!  I like being able to still have salsa even when I'm too busy to make it myself (expanding on the metaphor!)!  It was fun, I enjoyed it. I found it to be stress relief!!



Just tell him that it get's extra love . . .


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## HobbitonHarpy (Oct 20, 2018)

jcandleattic said:


> I believe M&P falls under a cosmetic for labelling so you have to list all ingredients.



I just read up on this recently, the FDA page I read seemed to indicate that so long as the purpose of the product was to get you clean, versus deoderizing or making a specific claim,"  makes your skin look younger".

*In section 701.20 of Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations [21 CFR 701.20], the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) defines the term "soap" as a product in which the non-volatile portion consists principally of an alkali salt of fatty acids, i.e., the traditional composition of soap; the product is labeled as soap; and the label statements refer only to cleansing. If cosmetic claims, e.g., moisturizing, deodorizing, skin softening etc., are made on a label, the product is a cosmetic. Synthetic detergent bars are also considered cosmetics, although they may be labeled as "soap."*



jcandleattic said:


> I don't know, I guess I just don't equate M&P as 'cheating' or not being "real" soap, which seems to be a common conception in the CP soaping community. There are people who can do things with M&P that I would never in a million years be able to do.
> JMO though




I have read comments with attitudes about M&P that are rather disheartening.

Because of my small house with a husband, 3 kids, a dog, and my potentially lethal clutziness, working with lye is not feasable. So I do what I can.  Does that mean I'm not trying as hard or being as creative?


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## shunt2011 (Oct 20, 2018)

Many do MP. As stated though MP is considered cosmetic as it has other ingredients not used in CP, HP soap.  MP is a personal choice and ha day for those who don’t want to mess with lye.  I use it for imbeds on occasion.  Just label appropriately.


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## Kimscastles (Nov 12, 2018)

jcandleattic said:


> How do you mean cheating? As in you are using a base? That's not cheating. It's all soap, and M&P did at one point have to go through a CP type of process to become M&P. Just because you didn't do that part doesn't mean it's cheating.


I don’t think it’s cheating either, it’s artistic adventure soaping, it’s nice to have variety it’s the spice of life


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## math ace (Dec 2, 2018)

I work strictly with Melt and Pour.   Some CP techniques, like Swirling, are much harder to get right in M & P,  IMHO. I can't tell you how many pounds of M & P soap I had to give away before I finally mastered the swirling in M & P.  

I make a Beautiful lemongrass scented soap in which I create the lemon embeds from scratch.  It takes me a lot of time to create a loaf of this M & P soap.  In my eyes,  M & P allows you to concentrate on making art versus making soap.

Lady Lather,

Those are some beautiful peaces of art you've created with your m & p.  I especially liked the first bar, the pink bar.  I haven't mastered that technique yet.  BEAUTIFUL!


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## Sultana (Mar 3, 2019)

Laurabolyard said:


> View attachment 29022
> i decided I wanted to play and try mp, so I went to Michaels with a coupon and picked some up. It was definitely soothing to play and not be rushed, but is this stuff even soap??  Lol!


Yes it is soap


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## Sultana (Mar 3, 2019)

jcandleattic said:


> I believe M&P falls under a cosmetic for labelling so you have to list all ingredients.


No it doesn't as long as you make no claims. If you take your CP soap and say it does anything but clean then you are making a claim and your soap is a cosmetic.


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## Sultana (Mar 3, 2019)

Laurabolyard said:


> View attachment 29395
> I am just LOVING using up my soap scraps into a MP!  Anyone know the best deals on MP?  I've been doing Micheals when they have a 50%off


I only use SFIC base but you have to meet their $250.00 minimum


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## earlene (Mar 3, 2019)

Sultana said:


> No it doesn't as long as you make no claims. If you take your CP soap and say it does anything but clean then you are making a claim and your soap is a cosmetic.




It depends on a few things if MP is only soap or not soap.  Where you live and the regulations in your specific location.  Even in the US, some states have more stringent regulations than the FDA.  The EU has it's own rules and regulations, as to other countries as well.  AND the ingredients matter (at least in the US) as well as what the seller claims.  In the US, not all MP meets the FDA's definition of soap, since not all MP soap is 'composed mainly of the “alkali *salts* of fatty acids' (the FDA definition of soap.)

"To be regulated as “soap,” the product must be composed mainly of the “alkali salts of fatty acids,” that is, the material you get when you combine fats or oils with an alkali, such as lye."
Quoted from:  https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/productsingredients/products/ucm115449.htm​
"Cleansing products, many of which are marketed as “soap,” may be cosmetics or drugs regulated by FDA, or consumer products regulated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission, depending on how they are made or how they are intended to be used. For example, soaps and cleansers marketed as “antibacterial” are drugs." 
Quoted from:  https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/productsingredients/products/ucm388824.htm​


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## Sultana (Mar 3, 2019)

earlene said:


> It depends on a few things if MP is only soap or not soap.  Where you live and the regulations in your specific location.  Even in the US, some states have more stringent regulations than the FDA.  The EU has it's own rules and regulations, as to other countries as well.  AND the ingredients matter (at least in the US) as well as what the seller claims.  In the US, not all MP meets the FDA's definition of soap, since not all MP soap is 'composed mainly of the “alkali *salts* of fatty acids' (the FDA definition of soap.)
> 
> "To be regulated as “soap,” the product must be composed mainly of the “alkali salts of fatty acids,” that is, the material you get when you combine fats or oils with an alkali, such as lye."
> Quoted from:  https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/productsingredients/products/ucm115449.htm​
> ...


I don't know of any MP on the market that isn't made that way. Are you aware of a brand that doesn't?


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## earlene (Mar 5, 2019)

Sultana said:


> I don't know of any MP on the market that isn't made that way. Are you aware of a brand that doesn't?


I am not sure I understand your question.  Made what way?  Made primarily as an alkalai salt of fatty acids?  Or made primarily with detergents?

Perhaps this article by Marie Gale will clarify, whichever way you meant your question:

https://www.mariegale.com/melt-pour-soap-soap-cosmetic/

Keep in mind, Marie Gale writes as soap pertains to US laws, so it may not be the same in other countries.


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## Sultana (Mar 5, 2019)

earlene said:


> I am not sure I understand your question.  Made what way?  Made primarily as an alkalai salt of fatty acids?  Or made primarily with detergents?
> 
> Perhaps this article by Marie Gale will clarify, whichever way you meant your question:
> 
> ...


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## Rsapienza (Mar 6, 2019)

I don't think anyone is doubting the creativity of melt n pour. When someone says " cheating", I'm thinking they mean that it's not made from scratch.


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## Clarice (Mar 6, 2019)

I just learned a lot from this!  I must confess to being a snooty "it's not real" camp (like I even know enough to know that!) and you have opened my eyes!


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## earlene (Mar 6, 2019)

The link I included mentions Stephenson Suspending Melt and Pour Base as non-soap per the US's FDA regulations.  Which was one of the reasons I included the link.


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