# Help with hair



## Micki (Sep 17, 2022)

Zany_in_CO said:


> I like your attitude. Experience is the best teacher! Quite ambitious though, I must say.


Hi, I just washed my hair with Coconut oil Castile. Liquid soap.  The texture of my hair is now waxy and not soft!  Can anyone tell me what I can add to make soft ‘clean’ hair please?


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Sep 17, 2022)

Micki said:


> Can anyone tell me what I can add to make soft ‘clean’ hair please?


When using lye-based shampoo, it's important to get every last trace of soap residue out. Rinse with increasingly cool water until it is as cold as you can handle. Follow up with an apple cider vinegar rinse. I use 1 oz ACV + 15 oz water. You may need more. Leave on if you prefer. The ACV smell dissipates. Or gently rub your hair and scalp for a minute or so and then rinse out.  

Be aware -- if this is your first time using lye-based shampoo, there may be an adjustment period. Chagrin Valley Soap & Salve has more information:

*WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT LYE-BASED SHAMPOO*

I use 100% Coconut Oil LS for laundry. The same process applies, except I add 1/4 cup White Vinegar to the rinse cycle. You will know if you didn't get ALL the soap residue out when your whites are stiff and dingy looking. 

I sometimes use 100% Coconut Oil LS in foamers.
Dilution Rate for LS: 40% soap (paste) to 60% water
Dilution Rate for Foamers: 1 oz LS to 3 oz water (X 2 for 8 oz foamer)

For a more conditioning shampoo, try 50% coconut oil + 40% liquid oil of choice + 10% castor oil.

My friends & family favorite Hair & Body LS is 50/50 Lard and PKO. My personal fave:

*ZANY'S FLAXSEED SHAMPOO*

*ETA*: OOPS! I see @AliOop got in before me! Her advice is well taken. This post belongs in a new thread in the *Liquid Soap forum.*


----------



## artemis (Sep 19, 2022)

Micki said:


> Hi, I just washed my hair with Coconut oil Castile. Liquid soap.  The texture of my hair is now waxy and not soft!  Can anyone tell me what I can add to make soft ‘clean’ hair please?


There are a lot of people here who just can't use lye based soaps, liquid or otherwise on their hair. You can learn more by searching the forum for shampoo bars. Even though the threads you get will be about bar soap, the experiences reported apply. For some, it's  drying and breaking hair that no amount of time or vinegar can fix. For others there is a waxy build up which may  be related to the hardness of your water.

Those who have trouble with lye base hair soap often have better luck with syndets. That's another term you could search for more info.

There is even a new product out there called syndopour that makes experimenting with syndets a lot easier. Try this thread for more info on that: Thread 'Syndopour shampoo syndet base testing' Syndopour shampoo syndet base testing


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Sep 19, 2022)

artemis said:


> There are a lot of people here who just can't use lye based soaps, liquid or otherwise on their hair.


There's a reason why that is so.

SHORT STORY: When I first joined in 2017 even the mention of making lye-based shampoo bars and liquid shampoo was FORBIDDEN. As a consequence, I was pilloried unmercifully for offering input. My posts were abruptly deleted, as were Newbies' posts like this one. SMF members were in danger of being banned if they admitted to using lye-based shampoo. There are quite a few here who do but they are not all that forth-coming although a few courageously "fess-up" when the subject comes up.

It took a long time for SMF to get to where we are today. Both syndets and lye-based shampoo are allowed to be discussed -- just like on any other forum/group I've been on since 2004. It's a good thing! Many soapers outside of SMF offer lye-based shampoo bars online and at markets and events. They are popular. The 3 wholesale customers I had over 10 years+ sold shampoo bars. All were good sellers.

While I agree that some people can't use them, I think it's sad when a Newbie who wants to know how to make them is side-lined into making syndets without first trying a natural shampoo or bar. After reading horror stories about how soap _is drying and breaking hair that no amount of time or vinegar can fix_, I would go that direction too if I didn't know better. 

Speaking just for me, I didn't learn how to make soap to go back to using synthetics/detergents on my skin and hair. For one thing, why would I do that when I can buy the same thing, i.e., that kind of shampoo, right off the shelf, for less money? Just the investment in cost for ingredients and time makes no sense to me. 

It took a long time for SMF to get to where we are today. Both syndets and lye-based shampoo are allowed to be discussed -- just like on any other forum/group I've been on since 2004.
It's a SOAP Making Forum, afterall!


----------



## artemis (Sep 19, 2022)

Ok. I have been here for a while and know full well about the controversy. A newbie should be given both sides of the story and then trusted to make an educated decision about whether or not to use lye based "shampoo" on their hair on their own. 

It is likewise, as you say, sad that when an opposing point of view is mentioned, that you would try to talk me down instead of letting the point stand. I am not sidelining anyone into anything, merely directing a person to more information.


----------



## Obsidian (Sep 19, 2022)

Micki said:


> Hi, I just washed my hair with Coconut oil Castile. Liquid soap.  The texture of my hair is now waxy and not soft!  Can anyone tell me what I can add to make soft ‘clean’ hair please?



Could be a couple different things. First is too much superfat, it can leave a oily/waxy residue and no amount of vinegar or rinse technique will remove it.
Could be soap scum, especially if you have hard water. if you do, your soap could benefit from a chelator. I'll let someone else explain that, I don't really use them.
The high PH of lye soap lifts the cuticle on the hair, leaving a rough feeling. A acidic rinse like diluted vinegar helps the cuticle lay back flat. For those who get damage from lye soap (like me) its this opening and closing of the cuticle that causes the damage, it can take a long time for it to accumulate and you may not realize you have damage until its too late. 

Castile soap is quite low cleansing, the few times I tried it on my hair it was awful. You might like a solid bar with a more balanced recipe better.
I have one recipe I quite like. Though I can't use lye soap for any length of time, I have a skin condition on my scalp that occasionally flares up and lye soap doesn't irritate it so it can heal quicker.

if you are interested in trying a solid bar before making your own, I've heard good things about Natural Shampoo Bars


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Sep 19, 2022)

@artemis


----------



## contrinokathy (Sep 20, 2022)

If I may add a few comments here. I have spent a year formulating shampoo bars for my friend (thin straight hair) and myself (full, slightly  curly and heavily damaged). Nothing I read worked for me. 
I was determined to make the lye shampoo bar work as I didn’t want to deal with any of the fine powdery synthetic powders to make a syndet bar. Even with a good mask I worried it would get into my lungs. 
I have hard water as well so started adding 2% citric acid to the lye water but the vinegar rinse just made my hair super dry. I finally settled on a recipe for myself and add honey then using a conditioner bar/conditioner I make with a touch of hair oil. 
My hair is now healthy and hydrated. It has repaired decades of damage. It may take time but it is very worth it in the end.


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Sep 20, 2022)

contrinokathy said:


> I was determined to make the lye shampoo bar work as I didn’t want to deal with any of the fine powdery synthetic powders to make a syndet bar. Even with a good mask I worried it would get into my lungs.


Good to know! Thank you!


----------



## contrinokathy (Sep 20, 2022)

Maybe it was just me. I also felt if I was going to sell shampoos bars I definitely did not want to deal with the sticky mess.


----------



## cmzaha (Sep 20, 2022)

Being a retired cosmetologist I will still stick to my convictions of not using lye-based soap for shampoo, and certainly not risk selling it. While I will admit some get away with soap used for hair I will say the vast majority most likely do not, on a regular basis. As I have done before I will refer back to the Wynn lawsuit. While it is hard to find his original ingredient list I looked it up when his system first came out, the product he was sued over was lye-based Apricot Kernel Oil based. When he settled, instead of losing in court the actual ingredient list disappeared. Over my span of 30+ years and my mom's 60+ yrs in the business I saw a lot of hair damage and a lot of it was from soap damage. 

My opinion is if you want to use it on yourself go for it, do not risk selling it. You cause damage to someone's long beautiful hair that has taken years to grow they will not be happy when they have to cut it off. Short hair on the other hand if usually trimmed fairly regularly so the damge is trimmed off. Something to think about.


----------



## Quilter99755 (Sep 20, 2022)

I am also one of the "few" people who can use a lye based soap on their hair. I have been trying to formulate a syndet bar for my daughter who has a cochlear implant.  She is able to use one of my recipes and she can also use the Syndapour but it leaves her with bed head, which on hair that is only a half inch long is weird.

@contrinokathy, you have given me a couple of ideas to think about for just formulating a different lye based soap for her. I am mostly concerned for the future...I know she will continue to make soap but not so sure about syndet bars. It might be the ingredients of the soap bar I make that irritates the implant, as she was able to use soap prior to her operation.

I actually hate to make the syndet bars and even though I wear a mask, I am sure I still get some of the powders in my lungs. So that might be the answer to her future when I am no longer able to provide soap and syndets for her. I am so thankful for this forum. It may not solve my problem but at least there is hope.


----------



## contrinokathy (Sep 20, 2022)

cmzaha said:


> Being a retired cosmetologist I will still stick to my convictions of not using lye-based soap for shampoo, and certainly not risk selling it. While I will admit some get away with soap used for hair I will say the vast majority most likely do not, on a regular basis. As I have done before I will refer back to the Wynn lawsuit. While it is hard to find his original ingredient list I looked it up when his system first came out, the product he was sued over was lye-based Apricot Kernel Oil based. When he settled, instead of losing in court the actual ingredient list disappeared. Over my span of 30+ years and my mom's 60+ yrs in the business I saw a lot of hair damage and a lot of it was from soap damage.
> 
> My opinion is if you want to use it on yourself go for it, do not risk selling it. You cause damage to someone's long beautiful hair that has taken years to grow they will not be happy when they have to cut it off. Short hair on the other hand if usually trimmed fairly regularly so the damge is trimmed off. Something to think about.


I have incredibly long hair and my hair is healthy and vibrant.



Quilter99755 said:


> I am also one of the "few" people who can use a lye based soap on their hair. I have been trying to formulate a syndet bar for my daughter who has a cochlear implant.  She is able to use one of my recipes and she can also use the Syndapour but it leaves her with bed head, which on hair that is only a half inch long is weird.
> 
> @contrinokathy, you have given me a couple of ideas to think about for just formulating a different lye based soap for her. I am mostly concerned for the future...I know she will continue to make soap but not so sure about syndet bars. It might be the ingredients of the soap bar I make that irritates the implant, as she was able to use soap prior to her operation.
> 
> I actually hate to make the syndet bars and even though I wear a mask, I am sure I still get some of the powders in my lungs. So that might be the answer to her future when I am no longer able to provide soap and syndets for her. I am so thankful for this forum. It may not solve my problem but at least there is hope.


Formulating a lye based shampoo bar can take a long time. Coconut oil can be very irritating - palm kernel oil and babassu oil also have cleansing attributes and are less irritating. I found many of the recipes online were not good. Dried out my hair and didn’t help much and the vinegar rinse made things worse. I kept making different changes to increase the benefits to my hair.


----------



## Obsidian (Sep 20, 2022)

PSA for anyone working with powdered detergents, you really need a proper respiratory and not just a face mask.

You can find particulate respirators at any hardware store for not too much.


----------



## cmzaha (Sep 20, 2022)

contrinokathy said:


> I have incredibly long hair and my hair is healthy and vibrant. There is bad soap everywhere


But the simple fact is, no matter the soap, the ph is high that is why perm solutions are hard on hair, it comes down to ph. You simply cannot change the ph of soap. Yes, some soap can be more gentle than others but the ph is still high. There are wonderful quality shampoos on the market, just do not close your mind and think handmade soap is the end-all answer. Some folks cannot even use handmade lye-based soaps on their skin, no matter what formula it is. In all my years of selling and I sold a lot of soap, I never closed my mind and thought my soap or any artesian soap was the best thing on earth and good for all skin conditions. 

FYI, I have severe eczema and sometimes go to syndet bars when my eczema takes a turn for the worse, and will go back to making syndet shampoo bars. 

Damage does not happen overnight and can take a year or more, but when it shows up on long luscious hair it is too late. You cannot fix damaged dead hair, other than by cutting it off.


----------



## Lauriertje (Sep 21, 2022)

contrinokathy said:


> If I may add a few comments here. I have spent a year formulating shampoo bars for my friend (thin straight hair) and myself (full, slightly  curly and heavily damaged). Nothing I read worked for me.
> I was determined to make the lye shampoo bar work as I didn’t want to deal with any of the fine powdery synthetic powders to make a syndet bar. Even with a good mask I worried it would get into my lungs.
> I have hard water as well so started adding 2% citric acid to the lye water but the vinegar rinse just made my hair super dry. I finally settled on a recipe for myself and add honey then using a conditioner bar/conditioner I make with a touch of hair oil.
> My hair is now healthy and hydrated. It has repaired decades of damage. It may take time but it is very worth it in the end.


Do you have a recipe?


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Sep 21, 2022)

Lauriertje said:


> Do you have a recipe?


Good for you for wanting to make a lye-based shampoo bar! 

Haha. I'm not @contrinokathy but I'm here to tell you that any Shampoo Bar recipe may not work for you. Notice that she "spent a year formulating"!

Be aware -- if this is your first time using lye-based shampoo, there may be an adjustment period. Chagrin Valley Soap & Salve has more information:

*WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT LYE-BASED SHAMPOO*

My advice is to first educate yourself about using a lye-based shampoo bar. As for formulating, there is good infomation on that sight about oils, essential oils and other additives that are benefical to hair. The time you spend there, learning all you can, will be time well spent in the long run.


----------



## AliOop (Sep 21, 2022)

I am able to use CP soap on my hair, but it does way better with a syndet bar. Many people’s hair or skin simply cannot tolerate the high pH of lye soap at all - period, full stop. The type of rinse, temperature of water, or phase of the moon does not change this.

My husband used my lye soap on his hair for years, until it quit working for him due to skin conditions. He has to use a low pH shampoo or pay severe consequences. And believe me, he and I are dedicated to using the most “natural” ingredients possible to lower his toxin load. If there were a solution for him other than syndets, I would have found it.

All that to say, I don’t mind people preferring lye soap, or preferring syndets. I do mind when people on either side of the issue are spoken to and treated as if they didn’t try hard enough, or aren’t good enough formulators, to make something work the way someone else thinks it should. 

Most of us started soaping to find solutions and alternatives to products that are supposed to work for everyone - but don’t. We all have different solutions that work for our needs, and that’s ok.


----------



## Prysm (Sep 21, 2022)

contrinokathy said:


> I have incredibly long hair and my hair is healthy and vibrant. There is bad soap everywhere



I totally understand that you're doing what is right for your hair.   And I also understand "there is bad soap everywhere".    I don't see how it can be insulting to any soap maker here unless they decide to be insulted.   You've not made an insult to anyone.   So, everything is okay.


----------



## AliOop (Sep 21, 2022)

Prysm said:


> I totally understand that you're doing what is right for your hair.   And I also understand "there is bad soap everywhere".    I don't see how it can be insulting to any soap maker here unless they decide to be insulted.   You've not made an insult to anyone.   So, everything is okay.


To me, the clear implication was that the only reason some people couldn’t use lye soap on their hair, is because they are using “bad soap.” That was the context of the discussion. And since most of us here make our own soap, and many of us have tried lots of formulations, I was quite taken aback by that.

I’m not seeing what else that statement could have been intended to convey, but apparently something else was intended, and I missed it. My sincere apologies!


----------



## Quilter99755 (Sep 22, 2022)

contrinokathy said:


> Formulating a lye based shampoo bar can take a long time. Coconut oil can be very irritating - palm kernel oil and babassu oil also have cleansing attributes and are less irritating. I found many of the recipes online were not good. Dried out my hair and didn’t help much and the vinegar rinse made things worse. I kept making different changes to increase the benefits to my hair.


For several years now all of my soaps have been with some combination of lard and RBO as the two main ingredients. We love the soap on our skins and neither of us had problems using the soaps on our hair. When her implant got infected after her brain surgery I immediately thought it had to be the soap, but didn't think about changing the formula. Sometimes you can't see the forest due to the trees.

I went on the quest of finding a syndet that did not affect the implant area. I did find a gift soap in my stash that did not contain lard or RBO so she is going to use that for a few shampoos. I have my fingers crossed on this as it is so much easier to try to formulate soap than deal with all the chemicals that are hard to pronounce, and that I need a dictionary in order to figure out what they add to the recipe. 

She used it yesterday for the first time and said it left her hair kind of gummy...which is the usual if you are not used to using soap on your hair...but that it would take 4-6 shampoos to see if it gets irritated. So wish me luck. I really do want to be done with the syndet bars.


----------



## cmzaha (Sep 22, 2022)

AliOop said:


> To me, the clear implication was that the only reason some people couldn’t use lye soap on their hair, is because they are using “bad soap.” That was the context of the discussion. And since most of us here make our own soap, and many of us have tried lots of formulations, I was quite taken aback by that.
> 
> I’m not seeing what else that statement could have been intended to convey, but apparently something else was intended, and I missed it. My sincere apologies!


I read it the same way. Also good and bad soap is really personal interpretation. What I would call a bad soap some would love it. If a soap contains over 18% CO I cannot use it so in my opinion, it is bad, at least for me.


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Sep 22, 2022)

Quilter99755 said:


> *I have my fingers crossed* on this as it is so much easier to try to formulate soap than deal with all the chemicals that are hard to pronounce, and that I need a dictionary in order to figure out what they add to the recipe.


Me too! Good luck!


----------



## contrinokathy (Sep 22, 2022)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Me too! Good luck!
> View attachment 68733


Good luck


----------



## M.Leffew (Sep 22, 2022)

contrinokathy said:


> If I may add a few comments here. I have spent a year formulating shampoo bars for my friend (thin straight hair) and myself (full, slightly  curly and heavily damaged). Nothing I read worked for me.
> I was determined to make the lye shampoo bar work as I didn’t want to deal with any of the fine powdery synthetic powders to make a syndet bar. Even with a good mask I worried it would get into my lungs.
> I have hard water as well so started adding 2% citric acid to the lye water but the vinegar rinse just made my hair super dry. I finally settled on a recipe for myself and add honey then using a conditioner bar/conditioner I make with a touch of hair oil.
> My hair is now healthy and hydrated. It has repaired decades of damage. It may take time but it is very worth it in the end.


Would you be willing to share that recipe? I make my own bar soap and have thick wavey hair with a little damage. I go one day without a wash and it looks like I dumped oil on my roots while the rest is still fine...


----------



## Obsidian (Sep 22, 2022)

Quilter99755 said:


> For several years now all of my soaps have been with some combination of lard and RBO as the two main ingredients. We love the soap on our skins and neither of us had problems using the soaps on our hair. When her implant got infected after her brain surgery I immediately thought it had to be the soap, but didn't think about changing the formula. Sometimes you can't see the forest due to the trees.



Back when I was using soap regularly as shampoo, I learned right away that lard was a no go for hair.

I generally used a shea and avocado based recipe but for some reason, I made a batch with palm, safflower, coconut, neem and castor. 
Its been 2 or 3 years now and I've been using it on my face but started shampooing with it again and it doesn't leave my hair gummy. Granted, I only have 1" hair but I don't use vinegar or conditioner and it still feels nice.

I can share the recipe if you'd like to try it. It also contains marshmellow root tea, silk and citic acid.


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Sep 22, 2022)

Obsidian said:


> Back when I was using soap regularly as shampoo, I learned right away that lard was a no go for hair.


That may be true for your hair, but get this... my 50/50 _Lard & PKO liquid Hair and Body Shampoo_ is a friends and family favorite. From my 96-year-old geezer pal back in New England, to all 9 family members, spread out from Florida to Hawaii, kids & stepkids with totally different hair.

I'm not braggin'; just saying, although it might not work for everyone, it's worth a try because so many different "hairs" tried it and liked it.  

For white/silver hair, my dear hubby liked *Zany's Palm Olive* bar soap It made his hair shiny and healthy looking with no trace of yellow.


----------



## contrinokathy (Sep 23, 2022)

M.Leffew said:


> Would you be willing to share that recipe? I make my own bar soap and have thick wavey hair with a little damage. I go one day without a wash and it looks like I dumped oil on my roots while the rest is still fine...


I am willing. 


M.Leffew said:


> Would you be willing to share that recipe? I make my own bar soap and have thick wavey hair with a little damage. I go one day without a wash and it looks like I dumped oil on my roots while the rest is still fine...


I am 
Argan oil 5%
Camellia oil 5%
Castor oil 5%
Coconut oil 30%
Jojoba oil 5%
Neem oil 10%
Olive oil 15%
Palm oil 25%
Yogurt, goats milk, sodium lactate, honey powder, tussah silk, 2% citric acid. 
This is for dry damaged hair 
Canola oil 20%
Coconut oil 30%
Olive oil 20% 
Castor oil 5%
Palm oil 15%
Neem oil 10%
2% citric acid, sodium lactate, sugar 
This is for normal hair. 
I think what really helped us adding citric acid because we have hard water in Wny. 
I read changing the superfat alters the shampoo bar as well. For normal hair I have it at 0% sf but the citric acid leaves about 1-2% sf as I don’t add extra lye to cover the citric acid. 
For my hair I have 3% sf. I also use a hair oil on my hair and it feels lovely.


----------



## Obsidian (Sep 23, 2022)

Zany_in_CO said:


> That may be true for your hair, but get this... my 50/50 _Lard & PKO liquid Hair and Body Shampoo_ is a friends and family favorite. From my 96-year-old geezer pal back in New England, to all 9 family members, spread out from Florida to Hawaii, kids & stepkids with totally different hair.
> 
> I'm not braggin'; just saying, although it might not work for everyone, it's worth a try because so many different "hairs" tried it and liked it.
> 
> For white/silver hair, my dear hubby liked *Zany's Palm Olive* bar soap It made his hair shiny and healthy looking with no trace of yellow.



You might not remember but a few years back you sent me samples of your liquid lard and flax oil shampoo. Both were extremely harsh for me, even on skin. I wasn't able to use either


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Sep 23, 2022)

M.Leffew said:


> I go one day without a wash and it looks like I dumped oil on my roots while the rest is still fine...


Grapeseed Oil is readily available at the grocers here. It's known to be astringent. You might want to try it instead of stinky ole Neem in either of @contrinokathy 's recipes. Just a thought. I like grapeseed oil but don't use it much in soap.

NOTE: When testing a new recipe, I make a small 300g batch and follow it exactly. Then I tweak it from there. 

TIP: If you have some Polysorbate 80 on hand, it works well as a "clarifier" for oily roots -- all on its own or as a pre-treatment before shampooing.


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Sep 23, 2022)

Obsidian said:


> You might not remember but a few years back you sent me samples of your *liquid lard* and *flax oil shampoo*. Both were extremely harsh for me, even on skin. I wasn't able to use either


I DO remember that! Thanks for mentioning it! It's a reminder that there isn't a _"One Size Fits All_" when it comes to skin and hair. Everyone needs to find what works for them. Just like buying shampoo off the shelf, you might like *J & J's Baby Shampoo* (my dad used that) while I might choose *Mane & Tail* (or whatever). 

In any case, your experience doesn't negate all the positive testimonials I've received over the years for both of those -- moreso the Lard & PKO liquid shampoo that is easy to make and rinses clean without stripping the hair after shampooing.

The Flaxseed & Rosin Liquid Shampoo is an advanced technique that requires more knowledge of working with rosins/resins. It is my personal fave.

When cleaning out my soaping cabinet a year or so ago, I found a sealed 4 oz bottle that was 4 years old. When I opened it, it smelled fine so I used it. I was as good as when I first made it. Probably due to the Rosin -- in addition to boosting lather, it also contains preservative qualities.

NOTES:
*ROSIN* saponifies much like an oil but without any resulting glycerin. It has a smooth cold cream finish to the lather and also acts as a detergent and preservative. 
_*SoapCalc*_ - When formulating, Rosin has the same SAP value as Wheat Germ Oil.
May cause contact dermatitis in sensitive individuals.


----------



## Quilter99755 (Sep 23, 2022)

Wow! Recipes and suggestions all over the place. It will be a slow process for my daughter...usually 5-6 shampoos before her implant will get itchy or irritated. Then if it gets bad she has medication to help heal before she tries another new product. Sometimes she just isn't in the mood to be a lab rat.

I'll be saving this page to refer back to when or if I need more suggestions. We are hoping the new soap will work. But maybe that is just too simple to happen. I'll continue to post as I get the info from her.


----------



## Misschief (Sep 23, 2022)

Allow me to drop this here: (Part 1)






						Myth-understood: Does your hair need time to adjust when you start using a shampoo bar? Part one, comparing liquid and solid shampoo formulas and a few reasons your bar might not be awesome.  – Point of Interest
					






					www.swiftcraftymonkey.blog
				




(Part 2)






						Myth-understood: Does your hair need time to “adjust” when you start using a shampoo bar? Part two, things to check when using a shampoo bar your hair doesn’t like – pH & surfactants – Point of Interest
					






					www.swiftcraftymonkey.blog
				




You may have to pay to read the entire article but well worth the cost of $1 per month (starting level).


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Sep 23, 2022)

When I first started soaping in 2004, I shampooed with whatever soap we happened to be test-driving in the shower at the time. My early mentors told me to expect an adjustment period. For some people, there's no adjustment period. For me, it took a good long while. After years of perming and coloring, my hair wasn't in the best shape to begin with. Here's a pic from waaaay back when:






I persevered though, and I'm so glad I did. My fine thin hair is much healthier and happier! 

Just found this. It's a pic of my hair from 2 years ago -- posted on another SMF thread (which I'm unable to find at the moment   ) 






 This link covers what I learned from those good people so many years ago.

*TIPS WHEN ADJUSTING TO NATURAL SHAMPOO BARS*


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Sep 23, 2022)

Obsidian said:


> I only have 1" hair but I don't use vinegar or conditioner and it still feels nice.


Same here. I rarely do the vinegar rinse any more and I don't need to condition at all. If anything, I rub a few drops of argan oil on my palms and smooth it over my hair for control and shine.


----------



## M.Leffew (Sep 24, 2022)

contrinokathy said:


> I am willing.
> 
> I am
> Argan oil 5%
> ...


I have wavy hair, so I'll give this a try! Thank you!!


----------



## contrinokathy (Sep 25, 2022)

M.Leffew said:


> I have wavy hair, so I'll give this a try! Thank you!!


Good luck. I have naturally curly heavy hair. It finally keeps its curl with the shampoo bar. Commercial shampoo and conditioner just made my hair heavy.


----------



## Sirena (Dec 31, 2022)

cmzaha said:


> Being a retired cosmetologist I will still stick to my convictions of not using lye-based soap for shampoo, and certainly not risk selling it. While I will admit some get away with soap used for hair I will say the vast majority most likely do not, on a regular basis. As I have done before I will refer back to the Wynn lawsuit. While it is hard to find his original ingredient list I looked it up when his system first came out, the product he was sued over was lye-based Apricot Kernel Oil based. When he settled, instead of losing in court the actual ingredient list disappeared. Over my span of 30+ years and my mom's 60+ yrs in the business I saw a lot of hair damage and a lot of it was from soap damage.
> 
> My opinion is if you want to use it on yourself go for it, do not risk selling it. You cause damage to someone's long beautiful hair that has taken years to grow they will not be happy when they have to cut it off. Short hair on the other hand if usually trimmed fairly regularly so the damge is trimmed off. Something to think about.


I've read this thread and had to comment on the discouraging content.  If you want to make soap bars, perfect a recipe, sell them, whatever you want to do, never be discouraged by others!  

First, this lawsuit is specifically regarding a contract dispute - and NOT about an issue with a recipe.  You can read the court's opinion here:  Waldrep Bros. Beauty Supply, Inc. v. Wynn Beauty Supply Co., 992 F.2d 59 | Casetext Search + Citator 

It is complete hogwash to think a big commercial company can sell shampoo but you can't.  This is the very BEST time to sell shampoo bars!  They have no plastic bottles, and you can formulate them specially for local people's hair that you know, with fragrances popular in the area.  

This cosmetologist - I am licensed too, by the way, has forgotten that commercial shampoos and conditioners, and all hair products were all just created by companies to make money, not to fill a need.  Marketers are in business to make money!  These products are less than 100 years old.  My great aunt told me that when she stayed at her grandmother's (my great-grandmother's), they used the same soap to do everything: from laundry, to washing bodies, to hair, to dishes.  They made the soap once a year, outside.  She stayed with her when her mother, my grandmother, went to see my grandfather when he was on leave during WWII, and he couldn't get all the way home, he could only get to a base, so she met him there.  This was in the mid 1940's!!! This would have been two ingredient soap!  Ash and lard (and any other fats!).  

I have very thick, thigh length hair myself so I have had zero ill effects of using shampoo bars.

Next, ALL soaps are lye based.  So are shampoos.  They ALLLLLL lye based.  You can look up no-lye soap recipes, but they aren't that effective, used supposidly by extremely sensitive people.  I don't know anyone who has tried these recipes actually.  Commercial soaps sold in stores are ALL lye based.  You can look this up.  This is not a secret.  The comments on here are just bizarre about lye being a big scary thing that nobody uses on hair ever oooooooo!

Sorry, just my 2 cents.


----------



## Cindy1961 (Dec 31, 2022)

Sirena said:


> I've read this thread and had to comment on the discouraging content.  If you want to make soap bars, perfect a recipe, sell them, whatever you want to do, never be discouraged by others!
> 
> First, this lawsuit is specifically regarding a contract dispute - and NOT about an issue with a recipe.  You can read the court's opinion here:  Waldrep Bros. Beauty Supply, Inc. v. Wynn Beauty Supply Co., 992 F.2d 59 | Casetext Search + Citator
> 
> ...


My shampoo does not contain lye.


----------



## Misschief (Dec 31, 2022)

Sirena said:


> Next, ALL soaps are lye based. So are shampoos. They ALLLLLL lye based.



Not true. I make  shampoo bars and they do not contain lye. They're a synthetic detergent (syndet), no lye involved in the process at all.


----------



## AliOop (Dec 31, 2022)

Sirena said:


> Next, ALL soaps are lye based.  So are shampoos.  They ALLLLLL lye based.  You can look up no-lye soap recipes, but they aren't that effective, used supposidly by extremely sensitive people.  I don't know anyone who has tried these recipes actually.  Commercial soaps sold in stores are ALL lye based.  You can look this up.  This is not a secret.  The comments on here are just bizarre about lye being a big scary thing that nobody uses on hair ever oooooooo!


Please don't go around spreading false information like "all shampoo is made with lye." I think you are confusing melt & pour soap with syndets. Yes, M&P soap based is originally created using lye, but syndets are a completely different product. 

Today, most commercial shampoos, laundry detergents, dish detergents, and dishwasher detergents are made with synthetic detergents (syndets). They do not contain actual soap, and were not made with lye. My handcrafted solid shampoo bars also contain no soap, only syndets, and thus were not made with lye.

I washed my hair with soap for years, and it was fine. However, since I quit using soap bars for shampoo, and started making and using syndet bars, my hair is much more soft, less dry, and more manageable. 

To be clear, I agree that lye isn't the issue, since no lye remains in properly finished soap. The issue for many people is that the pH of soap is too high, and it dries out their hair terribly. The example of folks using soap to wash their hair in years past isn't comparing apples to apples, because most folks today wash their hair much more frequently than folks in earlier times. The high pH that didn't bother folks who washed their hair once every couple of weeks, is much more damaging when one washes that same hair almost daily.


----------



## Kiti Williams (Jan 2, 2023)

Sirena said:


> I've read this thread and had to comment on the discouraging content.  If you want to make soap bars, perfect a recipe, sell them, whatever you want to do, never be discouraged by others!
> 
> First, this lawsuit is specifically regarding a contract dispute - and NOT about an issue with a recipe.  You can read the court's opinion here:  Waldrep Bros. Beauty Supply, Inc. v. Wynn Beauty Supply Co., 992 F.2d 59 | Casetext Search + Citator
> 
> ...


I agree.  Before I had my head shaved, my hair was down to mid thigh.  Cancer treatments made this nectary.  No problem at all with the health of my hair from a lye soap shampoo bar.


----------

