# What % of hard butters to oils in lotion recipe?



## jnl (Feb 19, 2015)

Ive made a number of lotions and have been allergic to all so far.  Hopefully this time it will be good...  If its not, then it would be the e-wax or preservative that bothers me.

I want a hand lotion that soaks in really fast and is not greasy.


So far this is my recipe:

Cocoa butter   ?%
Camelina Oil   ?%  (this is a very light non-greasy oil that soaks in super fast)
Grapeseed or Sunflower Oil  ?%   (both are supposed to be light and soak in fast)

e-wax  4%

water (oat milk)  ~80%
Glycerine  2%

Vitamin E  1%
Optiphen  1%



What % of my oils should be hard butters compared to soft oils?  I dont use any other thickeners, and i like to keep the ewax as low as possible because it has chemicals in it.


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## biarine (Feb 19, 2015)

When I make lotion I don't use percentage instead for 100 grams of water I used 25 to 30 grams of oil and 5 grams of e-wax


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## BubblesnBears (Feb 19, 2015)

I use either veg-emulse or olivem 1000 as an emulsifier as I try to use natural products as far as possible (though the latter can be a wee bit temperamental...the instructions I got with the olivem suggested using at 3-5% for a lotion, but I find I need to use it at around 6-8% and also be very careful with my blending, or the lotion has a tendency to separate out after a couple of weeks sitting in tubes). 

I go by weight rather than percentage too - but would work out roughly similar to the numbers biarine gave - though I use a wee bit of either beeswax (or if I have a request for a vegan lotion, candelilla) as well as my oils. My breakdown would be (for 100g water) approx 17g liquid oil, 10g butter (personally like a combo of cocoa & mango) and 2g beeswax. I don't add glycerin - but do use about 1g of Vit E for that quantity. I also prefer Preservative NB or Geogard Ultra ...partly in keeping things as natural as possible, partly I've found that Optiphen seems to do some odd things to veg-emulse (have found it thins it out, have had some weird precipitate things going on too...


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## Dahila (Feb 19, 2015)

Ewax is a generic of polawax and it is awesome emulsifier. Using percentage is the only way to go.   it must add to 100 % which are grams or ounces.  you need 12% of oils and butter, then I would add some thickener cetyl alcohol, or if you do not have it, stearic acid is good  

*Phase water *
75% water
2% humectant glycerine
*Oil phase *
Camellia 16%
cocoa butter 4%
Ewax* 5% *I always add a tad more to have a perfect emulsion
*Cool down phase*
Fragrance 1%
Optiphen 1%

It is 100 now and whatever you want to add take out the same amount of water.  If you want less cacao butter take some out and add in oil I am sure it will be awesome lotion . If you decide to add thickener like cetyl , recalculate it again take the amount of water but you must add it to oils so you will need more ewax


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## Dahila (Feb 19, 2015)

biarine said:


> When I make lotion I don't use percentage instead for 100 grams of water I used 25 to 30 grams of oil and 5 grams of e-wax


If you do not percentage how do you know how much preservative to add?  BTW
25% of all oils and butter should be emulsifier


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## IrishLass (Feb 19, 2015)

Whatever you do, you don't want to skimp on the recommended usage rates for e-wax (or whatever other emulsifier) that you decide to use for your particular formula. If you lower it beyond the recommended rates, it's pretty much a given that your lotion will separate. 

The recipe Dahila posted looks great! I would give it a try. 


Re: percentages: I agree 100% with Dahila. I find using percentage is the best way to go for a few different reasons (preservative amount, FO amount, and consistency when scaling up or down being paramount). I use percentages in every single B&B product I make, even when I make homemade food goodies such as bread and other baked goods (baker's %). 

Looking at a recipe through the eyes of percentages helps me to be able to 'see' in a flash how each of my ingredient relate to each other so that my tweaking and scaling endeavors come out more successful and consistent no matter how tweaky I get or how large or small I scale my recipes.

Although I can see that if one has successful recipes that they never stray from and with which they always make the exact same size batch every single time, that they can get by without using percentages, but if you ask me, if one is ever going to tweak their ingredients or successfully scale them up or down, percentages are essential.


IrishLass


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## biarine (Feb 19, 2015)

Dahila said:


> If you do not percentage how do you know how much preservative to add?  BTW
> 25% of all oils and butter should be emulsifier



I don't use Preservative Dahila instead I use vitamin E, Rosemary extract and grapefruit seed extract. I don't make to much just good for 3 to 4 weeks and I put them in fridge if i can. I want as natural as I can because I never sell my lotion. Second I use hydrosol floral water. But I used 2 to 3 %


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## Dahila (Feb 19, 2015)

biarine said:


> I don't use Preservative Dahila instead I use vitamin E, Rosemary extract and grapefruit seed extract. I don't make to much just good for 3 to 4 weeks and I put them in fridge if i can. I want as natural as I can because I never sell my lotion. Second I use hydrosol floral water. But I used 2 to 3 %


That's awful,  you risking your health .  Take a bit of your unpreserved lotion and put under microscope,  you will be terrified.  
Rosemary extract and grapefruit seed extract, is antioxidant; it slowers the rancidity of oil.  It does not do anything for mold or bacteria :shock:


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## biarine (Feb 19, 2015)

I know that making toiletries without preservatives is very unethical but I did making my lotion since 2008 I don't have problem even in my heavy cream for my husband boils, nothing can cure his sore on his armpit just my cream. Because the first time I use a preservative it makes my hand dry. I use the Phenoxyethanol preservative. I hate synthetic. That's why I never use FO on my cream just essential oil. My chemist friend keep telling me to use preservative but I refused, I am stubborn


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## Dahila (Feb 19, 2015)

If you hate syntetic , you probably do not take supplements, vitamins or any medication?
*Natural Skin Care : The dangers of Phenoxyethanol*


Phenoxyethanol, glycol ether often derived from natural sources, is a popular antibacterial and preservative chemical, used by many so called natural and organic skin care brands. It is also used in many vaccines and bug repellants.
A few beauty brands marketed as the greenest in the industry use phenoxyethanol as a preservative, suggesting that it is derived from grapefruit. Well, cocamide DEA is derived from coconut but this doesn’t make it any less toxic!
Chemically known as ethylene glycol phenyl ether or ethylene glycol monophenyl ether, phenoxyethanol is an ethoxylated compound that may be contaminated with carcinogenic toxin 1,4-Dioxane.
http://www.organicapoteke.com/blog/2010/06/natural-skin-care-the-dangers-of-phenoxyethanol/


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## jnl (Feb 19, 2015)

I have not seen veg-emulse or olivem before.  I will have to look into those.  I do have some ritamulse SCG (https://www.voyageursoapandcandle.com/Ritamulse_SCG_Emulsifying_Wax_p/62143.htm) but it has a small PH range and i dont have a way to test PH right now, so i cant use it without risking it not actually working.

I want to go as natural as possible.

I tried geogard first and i am allergic to it (the salicylic acid).  Does anyone know any other preservative that is as close to natural as possible?  I will look into that Perservative NB.



BubblesnBears said:


> I use either veg-emulse or olivem 1000 as an emulsifier as I try to use natural products as far as possible (though the latter can be a wee bit temperamental...the instructions I got with the olivem suggested using at 3-5% for a lotion, but I find I need to use it at around 6-8% and also be very careful with my blending, or the lotion has a tendency to separate out after a couple of weeks sitting in tubes).
> 
> I go by weight rather than percentage too - but would work out roughly similar to the numbers biarine gave - though I use a wee bit of either beeswax (or if I have a request for a vegan lotion, candelilla) as well as my oils. My breakdown would be (for 100g water) approx 17g liquid oil, 10g butter (personally like a combo of cocoa & mango) and 2g beeswax. I don't add glycerin - but do use about 1g of Vit E for that quantity. I also prefer Preservative NB or Geogard Ultra ...partly in keeping things as natural as possible, partly I've found that Optiphen seems to do some odd things to veg-emulse (have found it thins it out, have had some weird precipitate things going on too...


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## jnl (Feb 19, 2015)

apparently ritamulse is just another name for veg-emulse.


i just need to figure out how i can use it and get the PH right.  is there a way to do it without having any testers?


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## new12soap (Feb 19, 2015)

jnl, since you say you are allergic to your lotions, why not do spot tests of each specific ingredient? take a little bit of oil on a cotton swab and rub it on the inside of your forearm/elbow area and leave it there for 24-48 hours. Reapply to the exact same spot after washing or showering. That should tell you pretty quickly and definitively whether you are sensitive to any of the oils or butters. If all those are fine, dilute your preservative to the correct amount in distilled water and apply that (to a clean unreacted area), and the same with the emulsifier. It shouldn't take you more than a week to determine what if any sensitivities you may have, and then you can adjust your recipe accordingly.

I cringe when I see people say they want "natural", aresenic and ebola are perfectly natural. An unpreserved lotion is as dangerous as eating homemade mayonnaise made with raw eggs that has been left to sit on the countertop. I know I wouldn't use it, even if someone else said they ate it and they were fine. I certainly wouldn't use it after 3 days, let alone 3 weeks. Not worth the risk. Not everything that is natural is good for us, and not everything that is synthetic is bad for us. Zero point five percent of something that will protect me, my family, and my friends is worth far more than being able to call something "natural". Ask anyone that has ever had a skin infection. Vitamin E and rosemary seed and grapefruit seed extract are not preservatives, they are at best antioxidants.

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2015/02/why-are-preservatives-considered.html some light reading with more links about the importance of preservatives.

Some people have good luck with optiphen, but it can be difficult to work with and break emulsions. I use liquid germall plus.


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## jnl (Feb 19, 2015)

some things do not show up right away, but make my hands itchy over time, like mango butter and possibly shea butter (i hope not, but i have a bad feeling....i am allergic to latex and shea is a common allergy for people allergic to latex).  i did try a ton of oils on my hands (including shea and mango), but i cant really tell any reaction that way because they are so greasy.

the salycilic acid makes my hands itch and sting right away, which makes sense because ive had that reaction from all acne creams/washes that contain the same ingredient.

yes, some natural things are bad.  but im not using those things.  and i AM using a preservative.  natural is usually better than chemical.  and there is nothing wrong with trying to be as natural as possible.  especially when i am at a high risk for cancer.

there are plenty of checmials that are "deemed safe" that we later find out are dangerous.  when they tell me that aspartame is safe and deet is safe and rBST is safe, i know they are liars and dont trust them on anything.


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## BubblesnBears (Feb 19, 2015)

Preservative NB is Benzyl Alcohol, Glycerine, Benzoic Acid & Sorbic Acid... You'll still need to pH test to be able to use it though as its got quite a narrow range of activity. 

New12soap... I do agree on natural not always good vs synthetic not always bad (not knowing me, you've never seen the arguments I've had with people on this very same subject re the pharmaceutical industry :shock If a synthetic preservative was the only option available to me that would be far and away preferable over using nothing (I studied microbiology for two years as part of my degree...no way are those wee beasties making into my products!). But as I do have access to safe and effective plant derived products they will always be my first preference


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## biarine (Feb 19, 2015)

No I don't take vitamins but I took blood pressure tablet because I have no choice. My Physician warn me not to stop my tablet. Phenoxyethanol yes know my chemist friend given me that preservatives. She uses them in some of her stuff. As I said I minimise my synthetic I don't mind FO on my soap once in awhile but I won't use it in my face cream because if I use much synthetic in my cream there is no point for me to make my own I will just buy in the store more easy. And cheaper. My boil cream as I called it contain 15 or more essential oil on it that can kill bacterial on my husband sore maybe can killed bacteria in my lotion too. I don't use only one essential I use a lot of kind in one cream.


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## jnl (Feb 19, 2015)

argh.  i am out of lotion and need some now.

is a lotion normally between 5 and 7.5?  no EO added.  only some oat milk.

or is there a certain amount of citric acid i could add that should make it in that range?

its just for me, and its the emulsifier that needs the ph range, not the preservative.


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## Dahila (Feb 19, 2015)

biarine said:


> No I don't take vitamins but I took blood pressure tablet because I have no choice. My Physician warn me not to stop my tablet. Phenoxyethanol yes know my chemist friend given me that preservatives. She uses them in some of her stuff. As I said I minimise my synthetic I don't mind FO on my soap once in awhile but I won't use it in my face cream because if I use much synthetic in my cream there is no point for me to make my own I will just buy in the store more easy. And cheaper. My boil cream as I called it contain 15 or more essential oil on it that can kill bacterial on my husband sore maybe can killed bacteria in my lotion too. I don't use only one essential I use a lot of kind in one cream.


 I do not mean disrespect, I am old woman and still I take any syntetic over nothing.  I am old school, and I avoid toxic ingredients as much as possible.  Come on we were syntetic clothes and use syntetic mops.  

I had a really succesful lotions and creams using optiphen plus, the secret is to add it in temps lower than 45 Celsius.  I had never had seperation using my termometer, and watching the temps. 

I do not think anyone here uses FO in face lotions, most people use Essential oils.  Not many essential oils can kill bacteria, even if that is possible you would need a lot of that,,

I am on bp medication too, and I will take meds when I need them, syntetic or not.  I am also trained herbalist back home, and have a sound knowledge of herbs, and still i preserve my lotions,  I could not risk health of my family, and my precious grandchild


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## jnl (Feb 19, 2015)

if i want vitamins, i eat vegetables.

if i start getting sick, i start chugging fruit juices (100% real juice, no sugar or flavor).


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## Dahila (Feb 19, 2015)

jnl said:


> if i want vitamins, i eat vegetables.
> 
> if i start getting sick, i start chugging fruit juices (100% real juice, no sugar or flavor).


 You must be very young.  A lot of people have the knowledge of juicing and herbs and still when they time come they go to doctor.  Even with my knowledge of herbs I could not cure my pneumonia.  
BTW you should eat fruit not the juice


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## biarine (Feb 19, 2015)

Dahila said:


> I do not mean disrespect, I am old woman and still I take any syntetic over nothing.  I am old school, and I avoid toxic ingredients as much as possible.  Come on we were syntetic clothes and use syntetic mops.
> 
> I had a really succesful lotions and creams using optiphen plus, the secret is to add it in temps lower than 45 Celsius.  I had never had seperation using my termometer, and watching the temps.
> 
> ...




I know what you mean I grew up in the small island in Philippines, we use a lot of herb but we still using paracetamol because no herb can replace paracetamol. Maybe I will give it a try I am not sure what preservative to use, I need more research.


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## jnl (Feb 19, 2015)

normally, its better to eat the fruit because the fiber balances the sugars.

but when you are sick your body needs extra fluids, and sugars, so juice is better.  only REAL juice tho.

and i do take medications if i need them, but a lot of time you dont need them.  even if you are sick, most of the time meds wont really help (flu, colds, etc).
even many medical conditions are not really helped by drugs.  the best thing i ever did for my ulcers was to stop taking the drugs.  some drugs are essential for certain conditions, but most are not.


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## Dahila (Feb 19, 2015)

I would never take anything for flue or cold beside herbs, I am allergic to Asa so aspirin is out of question.  the best for stomach ulcers is (in most cases) to cure the backteria Hyplorii bacteria and start using flax


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## jnl (Feb 19, 2015)

my ulcers are not caused by bacteria.  so i cant take a magic pill to get rid of them.  any time i get stressed it comes back.  or if i eat something im allergic to.  my stomach/intestines just like to attack itself.


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## Dahila (Feb 20, 2015)

Try to use flax, if you need to know how pm me please


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## jnl (Mar 6, 2015)

so i made my lotion and it irritates my skin.
argh
so its the preservative that i am allergic to

so i will make a batch with no preservative for my own use and see if that fixes the irritation.
if it does, then i will try this stuff: http://www.lotioncrafter.com/leucidal-liquid.html
if that stuff also irritates my skin, then i will just make my lotion for myself preservative free and keep it in the fridge
its too bad you cant freeze lotion...it would be great to freeze it in cubes and just take a cube out every day for that days use, but i hear freezing it makes the emulsification separate.


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