# Have you heard of LUSH?



## Guest

Has anyone heard of a company called LUSH, which sells handmade soaps in the malls....apparently has stores all over?

I was in one in Maryland...and they have bath bombs the size of footballs. When I asked if there handmade soaps were made locally...they said, no in Vancouver...and it's a British-owned company.


www.lush.com

Interesting.......and scary for me as a small business.


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## Tabitha

Yes, they are huge & quite popular. There for a while every handmade soap maker was trying to copy Lush recipes for bombs & esp bubble bars. The world of B&B was in a LUSH bubble bar frenzy about 2-3 years ago....


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## soapbuddy

They are syndets for the most part. I like local and or handmade better.

Irena


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## Bret

I love love love their Honey I Washed The Kids soap. It just smells divine. 

And Butterball, and Black Pearl.... 

But now that I'm making my own soaps, I don't know what to do with my massive inventory of Lush.


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## dragonfly princess

You could do what my kids suggest and throw it at passing vehicles


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## Tabitha

I am going to have to disagree with you soapbuddy. The ingredients in their products are 95% natural. They are not 100% natural but they do a great job and have a quality IMHO.

LUSH has been around for 30+years and have have created such a demand w/i the marketplace they needed to add extra hands to do the job but they are making items by hand, just more of them.

As for being local, we can all only be local in 1 zipcode, if someone ships their product to Texas, NY, CA, London they may not be local to thiose areas but it does not change the quality of a product. People do not always find what they are looking for in their own zipcode but it does not lessen a products quality.


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## soapbuddy

This is from their web site:

"Our handmade soaps are made with only 40-60% soap, leaving more room to add other goodies, not as drying and harsh as other commercial brands."

That sounds like BS to me. Only 40% soap?

Irena


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## Tabitha

Anything can look like BS when taken out of context.

Here is the rest of that quote:

LUSH handmade soaps are made with fresh, organic fruits and vegetables, and pure essential oils, for a cleansing experience beyond the ordinary.

Each chunk contains only 40-60% vegetable soap to leave lots of room for beneficial ingredients like honey, clay, aloe Vera, and seaweed. We also add propylene glycol or glycerin to soften your skin.

It is very similar to Dove claiming to be 25% moisturizer & 75% soap.


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## Bret

I was shocked to find out their soap is M&P. 

Then I realized... it gives me something to aspire to!


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## edco76

soapbuddy said:
			
		

> They are syndets for the most part. I like local and or handmade better.
> 
> Irena[/Whats a syndet?


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## Tabitha

Another company that has had great success with M&P is Primal Elements.


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## soapbuddy

edco76 said:
			
		

> soapbuddy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are syndets for the most part. I like local and or handmade better.
> 
> Irena[/Whats a syndet?
Click to expand...


Synthetic; like the soap in the grocery store.

Irena


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## uplandermom

*On Lush*

I had no idea LUSH was  M&P. Actually, I do melt & pour, so this kind of gives me hope if it can be that successful. 

Someone at a craft show a few weeks back told me that M&P is the "ugly stepchild" of soapmaking? 

I don't think so.... I've seen some wonderful M&P products

Is that the consensus..or are there just some folks who are purists about the CP method?


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## uplandermom

*Lush....*



			
				dragonfly princess said:
			
		

> You could do what my kids suggest and throw it at passing vehicles



Those basketball-sized bath bombs might total a car!

 :wink:


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## sunflwrgrl7

*Re: On Lush*



			
				uplandermom said:
			
		

> Someone at a craft show a few weeks back told me that M&P is the "ugly stepchild" of soapmaking?
> 
> I don't think so.... I've seen some wonderful M&P products
> 
> Is that the consensus..or are there just some folks who are purists about the CP method?



Ugly stepchild?  :shock:  Oh lordy.  I hope it's not the consensus.  I think CP and M&P are totally different things, both can be very beautiful, both can be total disasters, too, LOL, and neither should be considered inferior, they are just different, two different sorts of craft, two different types of craftsmanship.  There are things you can do with CP that you can't do with M&P and likewise, there are things you can do with M&P that you can't do with CP.  My personal opinion.


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## soapbuddy

*Re: On Lush*



			
				sunflwrgrl7 said:
			
		

> uplandermom said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Someone at a craft show a few weeks back told me that M&P is the "ugly stepchild" of soapmaking?
> 
> I don't think so.... I've seen some wonderful M&P products
> 
> Is that the consensus..or are there just some folks who are purists about the CP method?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ugly stepchild?  :shock:  Oh lordy.  I hope it's not the consensus.  I think CP and M&P are totally different things, both can be very beautiful, both can be total disasters, too, LOL, and neither should be considered inferior, they are just different, two different sorts of craft, two different types of craftsmanship.  There are things you can do with CP that you can't do with M&P and likewise, there are things you can do with M&P that you can't do with CP.  My personal opinion.
Click to expand...


That's my opinion too.  

Irena


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## Tabitha

Here is a link re syndets by Eucerin, a dermatological skin care company based out of the UK:
http://216.109.125.130/search/cache...s.asp&w=syndets&d=SP_0_vL9Pm_U&icp=1&.intl=us

*Soaps, Syndets and Surfactants*
Sumarian clay tablets from 2500 BC found between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers document the early usage of soap. Soap, the product of a chemical reaction between natural fats and alkaline lye, has some disadvantages, especially for sensitive skin. Soap scum forms and surfactants are inactivated when used with hard water. Carbonate salts are deposited on the skin hindering the restoration of oils, which makes skin raw. 


Schematic diagram of surfactants.

1 Hydrophilic part

2 Lipophilic (hydrophobic) part

*Development of Syndets*
Soap's disadvantages led to the search for new body cleansing substances. In the late 1950's, scientists introduced synthetically produced detergents, known as syndets. Today, syndets are used in skin-beautifying cleansing because they have distinct advantages over soap:

Do not form insoluble soap scum 
No alkalising, so pH can be set 
Suitable for skin with a lowered alkali reducing capacity 
Little swelling of the horny layer 

  The currently popular expression "syndet" comes from the syllables "syn" for synthetic and "det" from detergent. Detergents refer to cleaning agents of all kinds, including soaps and synthetic surfactants. The term "synthetic surfactant" is sometimes used as a synonym for "syndet".

*Surfactants*
These molecules or ions are comprised of a very water soluble (hydrophilic) part (1), the head and a fat-soluble (lipophilic) long-chained segment (2). Individual surfactants have specific properties, such a creating foam (anionic surfactants), or leaving behind a pleasant sensation on the skin (amphoteric surfactants). Most cleansing products consist of a mixture of them. 


Besides active cleansing agents, the term surfactant is used to describe emulsifiers, foaming agents, solvents and other similar substances.



This was the forst webiste to pop up when I entered syndet at yahoo search. It is a *pro synet *site, it you do a thourough serach you will alos fid *con syndet *info.


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## Tabitha

Soap is defined as: soap (sp)n.
1. A cleansing agent, manufactured in bars, granules, flakes, or liquid form, made from a mixture of the sodium salts of various fatty acids of natural oils and fats.

A syndet (in a nut shell) is any other cleaning agent that does not begin with fats & lye. 

synthetic + detergent=syndet

Most  M&P bases contain synthetic detergents.


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## Bret

Tabitha said:
			
		

> A syndet (in a nut shell) is any other cleaning agent that does not begin with fats & lye.
> 
> synthetic + detergent=syndet
> 
> Most all M&P is a synthetic detergent, it contains oils but does not begin w/ lye.



But SFIC base is considered soap, correct? Because it does have saponified oils?


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## leansoapqueen

Lush is overpriced and full of yuck for my skin but a lot of people like it. I prefer Primal Elements as it's lovely on my skin and pretty. People like to bad mouth MP a lot but a lot of it is quite nice and nourishing and you can get great SLS free MP base!  
It drives me a little nuts when I see other soapers on Ebay or Etsy say that (and they usually put it in bold letters) THIS IS NOT MELT AND POUR SOAP! Hate it with a passion and I end up not buying from them because of this- who cares what process you use- if it gets you clean, smells good, and is good for your skin then why not give it a try.
I like making CP myself but that is what I'm used too- I will use any soap that is handmade and appeals to me and hopefully won't make me itch!


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## demme

Bret said:
			
		

> Tabitha said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A syndet (in a nut shell) is any other cleaning agent that does not begin with fats & lye.
> 
> synthetic + detergent=syndet
> 
> Most all M&P is a synthetic detergent, it contains oils but does not begin w/ lye.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But SFIC base is considered soap, correct? Because it does have saponified oils?
Click to expand...


No, it is still a syndet bar.  Only soap can produce lather/bubbles without adding a synthetic such as sorbitol, slsa or liquid sufacants.


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## Bret

According to their website (took out parts that are n/a for this discussion):

"Our soap is 100% real soap and not a combination of detergents and or surfactants, which are erroneously called soap.  Surfactants and detergents are derived from crude mineral oil ("motor" oil).  By blending them, a so-called "Syndet" bar (synthetic detergent bar) is produced.  

Our Glycerine Soap is a superior form of soap. It is made of pure vegetable oils (no animal testing or products) and contains a high percentage of glycerine. 
Our soaps are: 

100% Pure Soap 
Only the Finest Natural Vegetable Oil Recipe 
20% Kosher Glycerine Added 
Hypo-Allergenic 
Non-Comedogenic 
No Animal Testing 
No Animal Products (unless you ask for milk to be added) 
No Detergents 
No Sulfates 
No Surfactants 
No Alcohol 
No Sugar solutions "

And the ingredients do contain Sodium Hydroxide, which is lye, I think:

"Coconut Oil, Palm Oil ,Castor Oil
Safflower Oil ,Shea Butter,Glycerine (kosher, of vegetable origin)
Purified Water,*Sodium Hydroxide (saponifying agent)*
Sorbitol (from berries, moisturizer)
Sorbitan oleate (emulsifier)
Soy bean protein (conditioner) Titanium dioxide. "


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## leansoapqueen

Those are Lush? Ok maybe the bar soap isn't that bad- I could have been looking at the ingredients for lotion and that shower whip. 
Thanks for the info Tab...
I will say if you like Soap and natural handmade soap and butters- Basin.com is cheaper than Lush- they have some great stuff kinda like Primal as a matter of fact I'm wondering if Primal doesn't make their stuff. There soap is amazing- unfortunately the Shampoo bars have SLS but I guess most do- everything else is fine- Their body butter has 9 ingredients and is heavenly- I order sometimes when I'm bored with what I've got.


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## Tabitha

The ingredients Bret listed above are from SFIC, not Lush.

Hm, guess it has been a while since I have been on the SFIC webiste. That is intresting Bret.


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## leansoapqueen

LOL that explains it


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## Bret

Here's an ingredient list for my favorite soap from Lush, Honey I Washed The Kids. (Although, now that I know about some of the ingredients, and started making my own, don't know how much more, if any, I'll buy. Love the scent though.)

Black = Safe Synthetic   Green = Natural and/or Organic 


Honey Water (Mel Aqua), Propylene Glycol, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Perfume, Beeswax (Cera alba), Sweet Orange Oil (Citrus dulcis), Bergamot Oil (Citrus bergamia), Aloe Vera Extract (Aloe barbadensis), Aloe cupensis), Sodium Chloride, Glycerin, EDTA, Tetrasodium Editronate, Gardenia Extract (Gardenia jasminoides), Titanium Dioxide.


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## leansoapqueen

SLS= itchy skin for me!


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## Bret

Anyone know what EDTA is?


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## Tabitha

Most often, Lush (like many other successful B&B co) get's a bad rap because people  envy their success,  IMHO


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## 7053joanne

EDTA is diaminoethanetetraacetic acid which is an irritant which is used in detergents, industrial cleaning agents and in fertilizer.  It is used to make cosmetics more stable.

Makes you want to run out and buy more doesn't it?

Joanne


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## leansoapqueen

And pay big cash for it-


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## Guest

Tabitha said:
			
		

> Most often, Lush (like many other successful B&B co) get's a bad rap because people  envy their success,  IMHO



I couldn't agree with you more. 

Melt and Pour has a place in the industry. Even the syndet variety. Some people are allergic to real soap and HAVE to use sydnets. And I would wager to bet that until most of us used handmade soap for the first time - we were probably quite happy with our store bought sydnet bars. Maybe not in love with it as we are CP - but accepting of it nonetheless.

There are many M&P makers out there that make syndet bars and they are quite happy with their product as many of them should be. Some of them look at our lye soap in the same way Lush is being looked upon here - with disgust.

I like several of Lush's products. I prefer my own soap but have nothing bad to say them. And I have *actually tried* the products.


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## Tabitha

Thank you Marr & I hate to tell you this ladies, but there is far worse crap in the foods you eat, unless you hand raise all that you ingest. If you knew what was in your meds, over the counter & perscription, your heads would spin.

This thread was started before we inacted the rules below, or it probably wouldn't be here now.

_We pride ourselves on being the friendliest soap making forum on the net. Please abide by the following rules to keep it that way. 

1.For the purposes of this forum, ALL products commonly known as soap are handcrafted/handmade, regardless of whether it began as oils and lye or a base that may or may not contain detergents. BOTH products qualify as handcrafted/handmade soap in this forum. 

2.Disrespect and criticism of another member, their practices or choices, will not be tolerated. 

3.Disrespect of any member of the soaping community, whether they hold memberships on this forum or not, will not be tolerated. 

4.Disrespect of suppliers will not be tolerated. While everyone have the right to post experiences with suppliers, both favorable & not, it shall be done in a professional manner free from insult. 

Any negative, nasty, offensive or questionable comments regarding the above points will not be tolerated and will result in that thread/comment being deleted by the Moderating Team without further reference to the member. 

Continued posting of negative, nasty or offensive comments will result in that member being banned from the board. 

Thank you!- The mod team_


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## Soapmaker Man

Lush is very good, and very, very expensive.  If people are willing to pay that high price, all the power to Lush, we are a society based on freedom of choice! :wink:  I do wish I could sell a strange shaped piece of soap for $30.00 per pound though.  

Paul


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## Guest

Soapmaker Man said:
			
		

> I do wish I could sell a strange shaped piece of soap for $30.00 per pound though.
> 
> Paul



LOL! No doubt! But hey - they must be doing something right.


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## Bret

I still adore Lush. I just look at some of the products (bath bombs, etc) a bit differently now. They have a huge following, and will continue to do so. 

(I still have a box in my closet FULL of Lush. I just can't bear to part with it  )


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## Guest

Im not a Lush fan at all. I did go and visit the store to see all the rave behind it.. I touched and smelled everything .. and I just was not happy with the packaging or the items in the store. 

But its a market for it, certain people like it, and certain people dont.


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## pepperi27

It just amazes me how they can have the mp soap all out like that even in the summer time and there is no sweating.


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## 7053joanne

I  know it.  You would kind of expect a little bit of sweating....especially off the soaps in the plastic bags.....but nothing!

Has anyone tried the sea salt face scrub?  30 bucks for a small container but it is one of those things that lasts a long time.   Makes my face glow!

Joanne


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## Jnice999

ok so i am a little late posting here but Propylene Glycol is definitely not good for your skin. anything that you put on your skin enters your blood stream.


Propylene Glycol

A cosmetic form of mineral oil found in automatic brake and hydraulic fluid and industrial antifreeze. In the skin and hair, propylene glycol works as a humescent, which causes retention of moisture content of skin or cosmetic products by preventing the escape of moisture or water. The Material Safety Data Sheet warns users to avoid skin contact with propylene glycol as this strong skin irritant can cause liver abnormalities and kidney damage.


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## AshleyR

I've bought a few Lush products. I've loved them all, but do find them super expensive. 

I had no idea their soaps were M&P either!


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## Tabitha

> Material Safety Data Sheet warns users to avoid skin contact with propylene glycol as this strong skin irritant can cause liver abnormalities and kidney damage.



The same could be said for lye or fragrance oil. It's all in how it's used & diluted. 

Propylene Glycol is _in_ brake fluid & antifreeze, that does not mean Propylene Glycol = brake fluid & antifreeze. Water is _in_ insect repellant, that does not mean water = insect repellant.


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## Lindy

I have to admit being a little behind the trend here and I am just learning about Lush - I will say I find some of their ideas quite intriguing and makes me want to try to create something else I've never made.

It's fascinating where and when and how we will find inspiration.....bubble Bars - oooooooooo


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## surf girl

Jnice999 said:
			
		

> anything that you put on your skin enters your blood stream.



Not really.  Absorption through the skin depends on the substance's molecular weight, ionization, solubility in fat, etc etc etc.  That's why percutaneous absorption studies are done, to see what will and won't cross the skin barrier e.g. to see how safe/hazardous a substance is, or to find a way to get a drug into the body using the transdermal route.



> ok so i am a little late posting here but Propylene Glycol is definitely not good for your skin.
> 
> Propylene Glycol
> 
> A cosmetic form of mineral oil found in automatic brake and hydraulic fluid and industrial antifreeze. In the skin and hair, propylene glycol works as a humescent, which causes retention of moisture content of skin or cosmetic products by preventing the escape of moisture or water. The Material Safety Data Sheet warns users to avoid skin contact with propylene glycol as this strong skin irritant can cause liver abnormalities and kidney damage.



I think people sometimes need to take a step back from emotive words and consider things dispassionately. Is it the truth that antifreeze, simply by being antifreeze, is bad for the skin?  Antifreeze lowers the freezing temperature of water.  Salt lowers the freezing temperature of water.  The fact that something is used for one purpose does not make it automatically bad for another purpose.

Despite it being listed as a "mild skin irritant" on an MSDS, propylene glycol is used as personal lubricant...must not be particularly irritating to the average user.  Or maybe it's just for the S&M folks   

And I don't read the MSDS as implying that skin exposure will result in liver or kidney damage.


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## Annmarie0407

We went to the LUSH store and had to walk out. My husband and I both got headaches. I even checked out all the ingredients they had listed and could not pronounce anything.......hmmmmm Synthetic


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## Lindy

Sometimes when I am reading the INCI list for our ingredients I find I can't pronounce half of them either and yet I do know that they are natural with the exception of Lye.  Which is why I prefer to label in plain language even though regulations require the INCI names - harrumph - evil government language.....   8)


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## carebear

Annmarie0407 said:
			
		

> We went to the LUSH store and had to walk out. My husband and I both got headaches. I even checked out all the ingredients they had listed and could not pronounce anything.......hmmmmm Synthetic


INCI names are the chemical or latin names of the ingredients.  EVERYTHING - naturally occurring or synthetic - is comprised of chemicals so don't let the names throw you.  It's just a way of standardizing - and actually makes labels easier to understand once you know what's what.


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## madpiano

pepperi27 said:
			
		

> It just amazes me how they can have the mp soap all out like that even in the summer time and there is no sweating.



Lush Soap is not MP soap, it's HP soap. Yes they do make the soap off base and then rebatch later, but it's still just normal HP soap. 

They use Sunflower, Canola and Coconut Oil as their recipe. 

I like Lush and they were my inspiration to make soap, but they are rather expensive. 

Here is the ingredients list for one of their soaps - this one contains SLS, but not all of them do and they are all salt bars. 

Ingredients
Click on highlighted ingredients to learn more.
Water (Aqua), Propylene Glycol, Rapeseed oil; Sunflower oil; Coconut oil (Brassica napus; Helianthus annuus; Cocos nucifera), Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Sodium Stearate, Perfume, Sodium Hydroxide, Titanium Dioxide, Vanilla Absolute (Vanilla planifolia), Sodium Chloride, Colour 18050


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## carebear

Hmmm from what I've seen (and experienced, I love Lush) most of the stuff sold on Lush-USA seem to be MP - with propylene glycol and Sodium Coco-Sulfate or Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (detergents) along with some soap.

I've been looking (kid home sick) for a bit and I have yet to find one that is purely HP soap that I can tell from the ingredient list.

Alkmaar (my fave scent): Honeysuckle Infusion (Lonicera capifolium), Amaranth Infusion (Amaranthus hypochondriacus), Sodium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Titanium Dioxide, Perfume, Glycerine, Jasmine Absolute (Jasminum officinale), Vetivert Oil (Vetiveria zizanoides), Styrax Resinoid (Styrax Benzoin), Sodium Chloride, EDTA, Tetrasodium Etidronate,. 

Karma (my other fave) Water (Aqua), Propylene Glycol, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Perfume, Glycerine, Patchouli Oil (Pogostemon cablin), Orange Oil (Citrus dulcis), Lavendin Oil (Lavendula hybrida), Pine Oil (Pinus), Lemongrass Oil (Cymbopogan flexuosus), Elemi Oil (Canarium commune), Sodium Chloride, EDTA, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Gardenia Extract (Gardenia jasminoides), *Citral, *Geraniol, *Citronellol, *Limonene, *Linalool, FD&C Red No. 4,. 

They are not salt bars.  Where you see "sodium" it means the sodium salts of fatty acids - which simply means that the soap portion of the bar is made by reacting sodium hydroxide with the oils.  Salt bars have salt as a large proportion (usually in the area of 40%) added to the soap.

What soap is your ingredient list from?


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## Pug Mom

I honestly have never tried Lush, but I have never been tempted to.  I have spent some time in the store in the Orlando Airport and I haven't been tempted to buy anything....  I don't care for the scents or the textures, but that is just me, and like I said, I have never actually tried their stuff...


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## madpiano

seems to be different in the US - I got the ingredients from the Lush UK website. 

They also have videos on their website about their soap and how they make it. 

They do add Propylene Glycol to everything, but not because it is M&P

https://www.lush.co.uk/index.php?option ... 3&catid=52


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## pepperi27

Maybe thats why cause I do rebatch soap and I don't have anywhere near as many ingredients? Then again i'm no cp expert so I will look again. I've been to the stores and looked at the soaps up close and they "look" MP to me.


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## Deda

They make their own MP, in the form of soap noodles.  It' a little different than regular MP, kind of a hybrid between Basic MP and the all natural MP.


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## pepperi27

AHHH interesting!


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## miaow

Bret said:
			
		

> Anyone know what EDTA is?


(ultra-late) we use EDTA tubes in the veterinary office to keep blood from clotting when doing blood analysis! who knew you could be rubbing that all over your body?


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## waychie

I went into a Lush store a few weeks ago....nearly passed out from the smells!

The sales woman backed me into a corner and rubbed this massage lotion into my arm...it did smell lovely

It hasn't been in South Australia for very long, wonder how long it will stay


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## ChrissyB

There is a Lush not that far from my house, I should make the journey down just for a stickey beak one day. Feel like a road trip sometime Tanya?


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## bbkimberly

to each his own. I personally love Lush and recreate many of their products, not exactly of course....but they have a huge following.
There is a place for CP and M&P.


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## 12345smf

> Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:55 pm    Post subject:
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I may be one of the few people who do not like Lush . Overpriced crap imh. Yes I have tried it .
> 
> Kitn


 
_We pride ourselves on being the friendliest soap making forum on the net. Please abide by the following rules to keep it that way. 

1.For the purposes of this forum, ALL products commonly known as soap are handcrafted/handmade, regardless of whether it began as oils and lye or a base that may or may not contain detergents. BOTH products qualify as handcrafted/handmade soap in this forum. 

2.Disrespect and criticism of another member, their practices or choices, will not be tolerated. 

3.Disrespect of any member of the soaping community, whether they hold memberships on this forum or not, will not be tolerated. 

4.Disrespect of suppliers will not be tolerated. While everyone have the right to post experiences with suppliers, both favorable & not, it shall be done in a professional manner free from insult. 

Any negative, nasty, offensive or questionable comments regarding the above points will not be tolerated and will result in that thread/comment being deleted by the Moderating Team without further reference to the member. 

Continued posting of negative, nasty or offensive comments will result in that member being banned from the board. 

Thank you!- The mod team_


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## Saltysteele

i just made some liquid crack tonight (rock star dupe).  can't wait to see how it turns out.  it's a strange smell  oob.  good.... nice...., but strange.

kinda like a person of the opposite sex you find strange, yet oddly arousing   :shock:


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## ChrissyB

I love the Alkmaar dupe. It's to die for.
Really nice once soaped. The reviews said it accelllerated like a speedy sports car, but I didn't find that, I was ready for it though. I ended up having lots of time.


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## Saltysteele

i plan on making the alkmaar.  i know it smells wonderful! (just don't remember which one)(that was the sandalwood based one, right  )

my sister brought a bunch of her lushes over, but i don't remember which was which  lol

just remember the names of the ones i liked


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## Manchy

from the business point of view, i think lush made a big favor to everyone who wants to enter the market of handmade soaps. they have lots of money and can afford a big campaign, and so open and wider the market. i think it's much easier to enter once they did the hard job 
of course, they keep the large portion, unless another large company enters. so, for a small business it's hardly to say that they're your competition, at least in my opinion. every business has it's own unique qualities, their own customers and niche.

and, just for fun, here's the picture of a lush store in germany:
http://engrishfunny.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/engrish-funny-hand-job1.jpg?w=480&h=360


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## Healinya

Saltysteele said:
			
		

> i just made some liquid crack tonight (rock star dupe).  can't wait to see how it turns out.  it's a strange smell  oob.  good.... nice...., but strange.
> 
> kinda like a person of the opposite sex you find strange, yet oddly arousing   :shock:



That is *exactly* how I described their kazikazi (karma dupe), which has now become my absolute favorite.


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## madpiano

Manchy said:
			
		

> from the business point of view, i think lush made a big favor to everyone who wants to enter the market of handmade soaps. they have lots of money and can afford a big campaign, and so open and wider the market. i think it's much easier to enter once they did the hard job
> of course, they keep the large portion, unless another large company enters. so, for a small business it's hardly to say that they're your competition, at least in my opinion. every business has it's own unique qualities, their own customers and niche.
> 
> and, just for fun, here's the picture of a lush store in germany:
> http://engrishfunny.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/engrish-funny-hand-job1.jpg?w=480&h=360



I completley agree with you. And if you read about the guy who founded Lush, it really makes you think and admire them. 

He started making cosmetics from his home in the 1980s, very much like us but it wasn't paying the bills. The woman from Body Shop came across his products and placed an order. She was so happy with his stuff that she kept ordering more and more until he became their biggest supplier at which point Body Shop bought his business. (This was at the time when BS was still independant and did the whole natural, no animal testing thing). He used the money to set-up an online cosmetic business which failed spectacularly and he lost everything. He didn't give up though and started Lush with a small shop in Portsmouth and from there he grew to what they are now. 

He really is my inspiration (although I could do without the failing on-line business). If he can make it, any of us can as well. 

In an interview with one of his sons, he said that mum was always cooking soap in the kitchen and that that everyone who used the shower was always questioned on how they likes the soap. That sounded sooo familiar.


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## Saltysteele

Healinya said:
			
		

> Saltysteele said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i just made some liquid crack tonight (rock star dupe).  can't wait to see how it turns out.  it's a strange smell  oob.  good.... nice...., but strange.
> 
> kinda like a person of the opposite sex you find strange, yet oddly arousing   :shock:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is *exactly* how I described their kazikazi (karma dupe), which has now become my absolute favorite.
Click to expand...


isn't karma patchouli and sweet orange?  i just ordered some patchouli and sweet orange to try to emulate it.


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## carebear

miaow said:
			
		

> Bret said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know what EDTA is?
> 
> 
> 
> (ultra-late) we use EDTA tubes in the veterinary office to keep blood from clotting when doing blood analysis! who knew you could be rubbing that all over your body?
Click to expand...

EDTA is a chelating agent, among other things.  It binds with the minerals in water to prevent them from then binding with the soap to form soap scum.  It also keeps them from promoting oxidation and thus can extend the life of an oil or a soap.  

It's very much a magical material, IMO.


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## carebear

Saltysteele said:
			
		

> isn't karma patchouli and sweet orange?  i just ordered some patchouli and sweet orange to try to emulate it.


it is, but not these alone. Have you ever smelled the real thing?  IFT (now Agilex) has a marvelous dupe, as does Scent Works.  But the stuff aint' cheap.  I think at Scent Works it's about $48/pound now.


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## Saltysteele

yes, i've smelled the real karma, if that's what you're asking.  my sister was a lush-head, until she got tired of spending tons of cash there, and now has made her own soap.  so, she has a box with like 10-15 different varieties.

i love patchouli (used to care a vial of it everywhere i went), so of course, i was attracted to karma.  i figured there were other flavors in there, as well.

48 bucks!  dang!

she also had alkmaar, which i dug.  the karma was part of a 3 pack, which also contained happy and honey i washed the kids, or whatever their's is called.

i can see how people can get hooked on the stuff!  much cheaper and more fun to do it yourself.


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