# Glycerin method cloudiness after cooking



## sarahcycled (Mar 28, 2013)

I researched the heck out of this glycerin method before attempting it. I watched what seems to be the inky 2 videos about it on YouTube and I have Failor's book.

I tried combining one if Failor's recipes ( percentages only b/c I didn't want to waste that much paste if it went awry) I used about 48% coconut oil and 52% olive oil for a 2 lb batch. I then ran it though the BB calculator for liquid soaps and used the suggested water quantity for the glycerin. When everything mixed together, I blended until little bubbles started flying and let it cook on low in a crockpot-- stirring every half hour and testing for cloudiness. 3.5 hours later and it's as cloudy as milk.

I'm almost certain I did the method right....so what did I do wrong? Is there anything I can do to try to save this batch?

FYI, I made it last night and after it kept clouding, I just turned off the crockpot and went to bed.


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## lsg (Mar 28, 2013)

I usually test with Phenol P solution. I cook for a couple of hours and test the paste, if the solution turns the paste pink, I cook another 30 minutes and check. If the paste still turns pink with the Phenol P, turn off the heat and let the soap set in the crockpot until it tests neutral.


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## Dorado (Mar 28, 2013)

Strange.
But I can tell you how I do.
Lye in glycerine - boil until disolved. Cool of to 150F
Heat oil to 150F
Mix oil and lye/glycerine at 150F  (the temp will now rice to about 195-200F)
Stir (without heat on) until trace, first dark, then firm, last like honey with flying bubbles, within 5-15 min.
Tap on, Leave in crockpot on low 1½-2 hours until neutral. It now looks like clear honey.
Dilute with dem. water same temperature as soappaste.
Leave in pot, without heat on, until next day, and you shold have a nice and clear GLS


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## jcandleattic (Mar 28, 2013)

When I made mine, I didn't "cook" it. I melted the oils in the crock, then added my glycerin/lye and had the crock on until I got the bubbles and trace then turned the crock off, put a lid on it and let it sit until morning. 
The paste wasn't completely clear, just translucent, but once I diluted the paste, the final product is clear.


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## sarahcycled (Mar 28, 2013)

I don't have any Pheno P yet. I've ordered it but I wanted to try without it anyway. I did everything you suggested (dorado) pretty much. I did notice that after I blended until bubbles cAme..I kept going a little while because I thought it would get thicker...but it actually got thinner and it stayed a lighter brown color. The more I cooked it, there would get a layer of harder lighter color paste and under was a darker brown thin liquid. I'd stir it back in and keep cooking. I did that until there was no liquids stuff...just a paste...but it still turned milky. Did I not put enough lye in? Is there any way to fix it now?


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## Dorado (Mar 28, 2013)

I think, if you used B&B's calculator for liquid soap, you should be ok with lye.
When you mix glycerine/lye with oils (best at 150F), a cemical process wil start. You do not need to use a stickblender, a fork or spoon will do.
Whitin 5-15 min. after mixing, this will happend: Temperature will rise to about 195-200F. First, the liquid gets darker, then, it kind of separate, with a thick layer in the bottom, then al the paste will thicken, and then in the end, it will be lighter and liquid again with flying bubbles. All this happends within about 1 minute.
When the soappaste is neutral, after 1½-2 hours on low heat,  it will still be very liquid, like fluid honey, while it is still warm. 
If you don't dilute it, and let it get cold, it wil be very thick, thicker than firm honey.
I don't know, why your paste is not clear, you might have a lot of airbubbles in there, from the stickblender
My paste looks like honey with pearlshine in, if I let it get cold. But I prefer dilution right away, so I do't have to reheat.
I have only made 9 GLS batches, but non of them are milky after dilution. All very clear. 
Sorry about the spelling - hopefully this helped you a bit.

Edit: I have had a thick layer on top of one of my diluted soaps. I believe, it is, because my SF was too high.
You can take this layer of with a spoon, dilute it a bit more, and mix it with the rest of the soap, that is, what I did, and it worked.


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## sarahcycled (Mar 28, 2013)

I just got back home from work and now my soap test is clear. It was just sitting in the crock for about 10 hours with no heat. Is this normal? Should I just have left it off the heat to begin with? Now to the dilution I guess...I have to dilute an almost solid chunk of paste. Any suggestions for dilution? How about a ratio to start off with?


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## jcandleattic (Mar 28, 2013)

sarahcycled said:


> I just got back home from work and now my soap test is clear. It was just sitting in the crock for about 10 hours with no heat. Is this normal? Should I just have left it off the heat to begin with? Now to the dilution I guess...I have to dilute an almost solid chunk of paste. Any suggestions for dilution? How about a ratio to start off with?



It's normal for mine, because I don't let it heat up in the first place (other than to melt the oils) 
As for dilution, that's when I put the paste to heat, I warm up both the paste and the water to dilute.


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## Dorado (Mar 28, 2013)

Goood  It is perfectly normal. (all soaps like to rest )
I prefere, to dilute while hot, it can be done cold, but it will take longer time.
Soappaste and water same temperature. 
Oils dilute differently - Olive more than Coconut.
I would start with 50% of soappaste.  If you have 2lb soappaste, add 1lb dem. water. (tap water will make it milky)
stir a bit, leave it over night in room temp, and se, if you need to dilute more tomorrow.
Remember notes for next time. Good luck


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## Dorado (Mar 28, 2013)

jcandleattic said:


> It's normal for mine, because I don't let it heat up in the first place (other than to melt the oils)
> As for dilution, that's when I put the paste to heat, I warm up both the paste and the water to dilute.



But don't you heat up the glycerine to disolve the KOH ?

I would like to try one day, to just let it sit over night, without heating after I have mixed the oils and lye.


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## lsg (Mar 28, 2013)

I always heat up the glycerin before adding the lye.


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## jcandleattic (Mar 28, 2013)

Dorado said:


> But don't you heat up the glycerine to disolve the KOH ?
> 
> I would like to try one day, to just let it sit over night, without heating after I have mixed the oils and lye.



Yes, I heat the glycerin then add the lye, then add the lye solution to the hot oils, keep the crock on low while stirring. Once I get to the little bubbles stage, I turn the crock off, cover it with the lid and let it set up and do it's thing until the next morning, day, whatever, check it to make sure it's paste (it always is), then I either dilute or bottle the paste depending on when I want to dilute.


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## Dorado (Mar 28, 2013)

Ok, jcandleattic, Thought so.
Must try it - seems like your way saves a bit on electricitybill.


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## sarahcycled (Mar 28, 2013)

Thanks guys! I am curious why there isn't that much info out there about this method. Is it harder? More expensive? More dangerous? Since I've never done liquid soap before I'm curious.


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## Dorado (Mar 28, 2013)

By coincidence I bumped into a looooooong thread on another forum, filled with enthusiasm, ,  I just had to try it.
I've read a lot about GLS here and there and everywhere, so continue searching.
I've never tryed without glycerin, which is quite expensive in EU. Maybe I shold try with water too,
someone told me experience is a good teacher


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## Smee (Mar 28, 2013)

jcandleattic said:


> Yes, I heat the glycerin then add the lye, then add the lye solution to the hot oils, keep the crock on low while stirring. Once I get to the little bubbles stage, I turn the crock off, cover it with the lid and let it set up and do it's thing until the next morning, day, whatever, check it to make sure it's paste (it always is), then I either dilute or bottle the paste depending on when I want to dilute.




This sounds too easy...there must be something I missed so I am going
to have to try it to see.  Thank you for explaining so well!

How long is "whatever"?  I'm going to  guess over 12 hours...  Is there a 
"that's-too-long" time to leave it sit?


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## jcandleattic (Mar 28, 2013)

sarahcycled said:


> Thanks guys! I am curious why there isn't that much info out there about this method. Is it harder? More expensive? More dangerous? Since I've never done liquid soap before I'm curious.



I think it's because it's relatively "new" method of doing liquid soap and that's why there isn't a ton of info on it. I could be wrong about that though, but I only heard about this method about 6-9 months ago myself. 
IMO it is very much easier than the traditional water/neutralize/dilute method. 
More expensive? Maybe since you use glycerin initially and not just water, but not by a whole lot. 
And nope, not any more dangerous than working with a water/lye solution. You still have to be careful and follow proper safety methods. 
This has been my experience anyway.


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## jcandleattic (Mar 28, 2013)

Smee said:


> This sounds too easy...there must be something I missed so I am going
> to have to try it to see.  Thank you for explaining so well!
> 
> How long is "whatever"?  I'm going to  guess over 12 hours...  Is there a
> "that's-too-long" time to leave it sit?



Yeah, I wait at least 12 hours. Not because I have too just because I usually start the process late in the afternoon. So "whatever" means whenever I get the chance to get to it. LOL I don't know if there is a "too early" time to leave it sit, as long as it has become paste, but once it's paste and stored properly it can remain paste for MONTHS before dilution, so nope, there isn't a "that's too long to wait" time. 

HTH


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## Smee (Mar 28, 2013)

You are awesome, jcandleattic! 

This will save major time, frustration, and electricity!  
To me, Stored Properly means in mason jar in the fridge...? 
Or can you leave it on a shelf in the basement?


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## jcandleattic (Mar 28, 2013)

Smee said:


> You are awesome, jcandleattic!
> 
> This will save major time, frustration, and electricity!
> To me, Stored Properly means in mason jar in the fridge...?
> Or can you leave it on a shelf in the basement?



I am not 100% sure on that, but I *think* as long as it is airtight on a shelf in the basement should be fine. 
I've heard people doing both (fridge and not) and all said the paste has been fine...
I store mine on a shelf in the basement, and it has been fine, but I also don't sell... I will make sure of the correct method before I do so though.


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## Smee (Mar 28, 2013)

Reckon the best way to find out is to find out for myself then, right?
Saturday will be "Test Jcandleattic's Method" day.
I'll put one jar in the fridge and one in the basement...and see how long 
I can keep my hands off of them!


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## lsg (Mar 30, 2013)

I happened to remember this video, maybe TEA is the answer to cloudiness.  Check out the video titled "Trouble shooting cloudiess in M& P.   I would try it in just a small amount of LS first and then take the pH to be sure it wasn't too high. By the way I love this series of videos.

http://www.essentialwholesale.com/Learning-Library/Bulk-Cosmetics-Natural-Organic_14


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## Smee (Apr 1, 2013)

jcandleattic said:


> Yes, I heat the glycerin then add the lye, then add the lye solution to the hot oils, keep the crock on low while stirring. Once I get to the little bubbles stage, I turn the crock off, cover it with the lid and let it set up and do it's thing until the next morning, day, whatever, check it to make sure it's paste (it always is), then I either dilute or bottle the paste depending on when I want to dilute.



YOU'RE A GENIUS, JCANDLEATTIC!
It worked!  It worked!!  Bwwwaaaahahahahaha!  It WORKED!! :clap:

It probably would have worked even better if I would have
kept my nosy self out of it and left it alone...but that's not me  :roll:
Put one half in the fridge and one half in the basement to see 
how each one fares over a few months cuz I'm curious.
Now I'm so excited to make more liquid soap this way, but
I'm out of glycerin.   

Thank you for this most awesome tip!


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## jcandleattic (Apr 1, 2013)

Smee said:


> YOU'RE A GENIUS, JCANDLEATTIC!
> It worked!  It worked!!  Bwwwaaaahahahahaha!  It WORKED!! :clap:
> 
> It probably would have worked even better if I would have
> ...



LOL you are quite welcome. I'm glad it worked for you. 
And I am 99.99999% sure you don't have to refrigerate the paste. 
Let us know what your results are.


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