# New Soaping Area.



## TashaBird (Jul 27, 2020)

I’ve decided to repurpose one of my art areas in my garage to a soaping area. No more soaping in the kitchen! There is a sink, but no stove or microwave. I may have to get a heating element for melting oils, plug in preferred. Recommendations?


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## GemstonePony (Jul 27, 2020)

Hello! What are your current/expected soaping methods? Cold process? Hot process? Melt & Pour? And what is your expected maximum batch size? Those might influence the answers you get.


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## Megan (Jul 27, 2020)

I bought a Cusimax Infrared portable electric stove from Amazon and I am very pleased. It heats up really fast, but also has low heat settings for when you need that. I don't have to worry about the type of pot I'm using being compatible...and I feel it's affordable.


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## TashaBird (Jul 27, 2020)

GemstonePony said:


> Hello! What are your current/expected soaping methods? Cold process? Hot process? Melt & Pour? And what is your expected maximum batch size? Those might influence the answers you get.


Cold process. Currently 2-2.5 lb loaves, but I’m eye balling a 5lb loaf.



Megan said:


> I bought a Cusimax Infrared portable electric stove from Amazon and I am very pleased. It heats up really fast, but also has low heat settings for when you need that. I don't have to worry about the type of pot I'm using being compatible...and I feel it's affordable.


How low does it go?


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## Megan (Jul 27, 2020)

I will have to check.


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## GemstonePony (Jul 27, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> Cold process. Currently 2-2.5 lb loaves, but I’m eye balling a 5lb loaf.


I was going to say a microwave or a hot plate should be adequate, but the infrared stove sounds pretty nifty.


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## Megan (Jul 27, 2020)

GemstonePony said:


> I was going to say a microwave or a hot plate should be adequate, but the infrared stove sounds pretty nifty.


technically it's just a hot plate with a fancy name as far as I'm concerned...but I specifically wanted to make sure that it wasn't induction because I despise induction burners (It's what I have for my normal cooktop haha! I was not prepared to switch out all of my old pans when I moved.)


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## TashaBird (Jul 27, 2020)

Microwave might be good!


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## TheGecko (Jul 28, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> I’ve decided to repurpose one of my art areas in my garage to a soaping area. No more soaping in the kitchen! There is a sink, but no stove or microwave. I may have to get a heating element for melting oils, plug in preferred. Recommendations?



I’m looking to move out into our garage when it gets cleaned up and I’ve been eyeing:  https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Cuisin...d=1595988106&sprefix=Hot+plate,aps,227&sr=8-3

I’ve come to really enjoy melting my oils/butters on the stove instead of the microwave.  I won’t have a sink, but a wash bucket will work fine for me.


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## TashaBird (Jul 29, 2020)

TheGecko said:


> I’m looking to move out into our garage when it gets cleaned up and I’ve been eyeing:  https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Cuisin...d=1595988106&sprefix=Hot+plate,aps,227&sr=8-3
> 
> I’ve come to really enjoy melting my oils/butters on the stove instead of the microwave.  I won’t have a sink, but a wash bucket will work fine for me.


I can always carry my bowl of oils up stairs to the microwave. It’d sure be easier than carrying each of my oils upstairs to my kitchen to measure, and then back downstairs to store them again! 
The more I think about moving my operation to the garage, the more excited I’m getting about it!!
The hubs loves a good building project!! He does stress carpentry! I’ve got shelves in places I never knew I needed shelves!!! 



TheGecko said:


> I’m looking to move out into our garage when it gets cleaned up and I’ve been eyeing:  https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Cuisin...d=1595988106&sprefix=Hot+plate,aps,227&sr=8-3
> 
> I’ve come to really enjoy melting my oils/butters on the stove instead of the microwave.  I won’t have a sink, but a wash bucket will work fine for me.


I wonder what temperature low is on that hot plate.


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## TheGecko (Jul 29, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> I wonder what temperature low is on that hot plate.



Call the company that makes them and ask


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## Cosmo71 (Jul 29, 2020)

I keep all my supplies in a tough box in the garage. I also mix my lye in the garage...I guess it won't be long and I'll be soaping out there as well. Why not?


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## TashaBird (Jul 29, 2020)

Cosmo71 said:


> I keep all my supplies in a tough box in the garage. I also mix my lye in the garage...I guess it won't be long and I'll be soaping out there as well. Why not?


I have a small kitchen and keep all my soap supplies downstairs in the garage. I have been making soap int he kitchen upstairs, which means a LOT of trips up and down the stairs. That’s not too bad, exercise and all. But, can’t make food if I’m in a project. Also, stains and spills and stuff. I’m getting super excited for my new space.


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## Adobehead (Jul 29, 2020)

I melt in a crock pot.  With bigger batches (like 8 pounds) i do the whole thing in there.  But for smaller batches it is nice to just use an electric teakettle to heat some water and make kind of a double boiler, the hard oils melt really quickly.  I like to keep it simple, but plan on building a bigger space, too.  Going back and forth to the stove is the scourge of the earth!


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## dibbles (Jul 29, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> I can always carry my bowl of oils up stairs to the microwave.


If you plan to do this, I'd recommend using something with a tight fitting cover. I soap in my basement, and used to take my oils upstairs to melt them in the kitchen. It only took one time with a small misstep resulting in a good sized oil spill to put a microwave in my basement.


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## MGM (Jul 29, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> I’ve decided to repurpose one of my art areas in my garage to a soaping area. No more soaping in the kitchen! There is a sink, but no stove or microwave. I may have to get a heating element for melting oils, plug in preferred. Recommendations?


I think you've mentioned wanting to sell so I'm reposting this very interesting cautionary tale. There may be some useful information for you :
A Surprise Visit from the FDA - Soap Queen


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## Cosmo71 (Jul 30, 2020)

MGM said:


> I think you've mentioned wanting to sell so I'm reposting this very interesting cautionary tale. There may be some useful information for you :
> A Surprise Visit from the FDA - Soap Queen


I had read this "a surprise visit for the FDA" I think the main issue that caused the inspection was the lady was labeling her soaps as medicinal! I have been soaping for about 2 weeks and even I know you shouldn't do that.  Making soap and selling soap are 2 completely different entities and if selling interests you, you better do your research before you try to market and sell a product that will be used on skin and sometimes looks like food. I want to sell soap but it sounds incredibly risky...definitely wouldn't do it without insurance.


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## TashaBird (Jul 30, 2020)

MGM said:


> I think you've mentioned wanting to sell so I'm reposting this very interesting cautionary tale. There may be some useful information for you :
> A Surprise Visit from the FDA - Soap Queen


Thanks! Yikes!! Good reminder to stay on top of the rules and regs. Just registered for HSCG, they seem to have consolidated good info on the requirements. Are they a good source? Any other sources you recommend? I’m gearing up to sell, but want to take my time and do it right.


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## TheGecko (Jul 30, 2020)

Cosmo71 said:


> I had read this "a surprise visit for the FDA" I think the main issue that caused the inspection was the lady was labeling her soaps as medicinal!



No she wasn't: "_the inspector came across her website and noticed several problems with the way products were described. Specifically, Robin described a scent as “medicinal,” and stated that tea tree and lavender essential oils contained antibacterial properties._" Even though what she wrote is correct as far as scent and properties are concerned, what makes it a problem is that folks are going to think/assume/presume that those properties will be IN the soap.

It's something that I struggled with when I went to work on my Ingredients page of my website. I knew I couldn't I label my soap as anything but soap without crossing over, but I thought I could talk about the various 'benefits' of the ingredients that I used...like how I see a lot of YouTube soapers describe theirs. I was quickly set straight that I cannot...if I am just selling "Soap".

BUT...when you go on to read the story, there were issues with her overall manufacturing "facility", storage, and processes.  I think just about every soap maker starts out in their kitchen and while they are probably taking the same care and concern in making soap as they make supper for their family, the requirements for making a consumable products are much, much higher.


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## TashaBird (Jul 30, 2020)

This is great advice! I’d rather comply from the start. So, I’m looking to see how I can ready this new area as I’m organizing it. Is the HSCG insurance (Veracity) what most soap sellers have? Also, HSCG seems to be a good resource for requirements. Any others?


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## MGM (Jul 30, 2020)

TheGecko said:


> BUT...when you go on to read the story, there were issues with her overall manufacturing "facility", storage, and processes.  I think just about every soap maker starts out in their kitchen and while they are probably taking the same care and concern in making soap as they make supper for their family, the requirements for making a consumable products are much, much higher.


Yeah that was my take-away...whatever triggered it (and I agree that saying the *smell* is medicinal isn't claiming your product is a drug!), *IT* ended up being a big hairy deal. And that doesn't even count the civil claims that someone could (in theory) bring against an entrepreneur (which could then trigger FDA inspections, or the civil case could be bolstered by the results of an FDA inspection); the US is a pretty litigious society.
Any time I think about selling, I remember allllllll of this, and suggest that my "customers" make a donation to the charity of their choice


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## TheGecko (Jul 31, 2020)

MGM said:


> Yeah that was my take-away...whatever triggered it (and I agree that saying the *smell* is medicinal isn't claiming your product is a drug!), *IT* ended up being a big hairy deal. And that doesn't even count the civil claims that someone could (in theory) bring against an entrepreneur (which could then trigger FDA inspections, or the civil case could be bolstered by the results of an FDA inspection); the US is a pretty litigious society.
> 
> Any time I think about selling, I remember allllllll of this, and suggest that my "customers" make a donation to the charity of their choice



While I understand why the FDA got involved in the first place, I don't understand their continued involvement if it was determined that she was just selling 'soap' because 'true soap' doesn't fall under their jurisdiction.  That leave me to believe that she is selling more than "true soap", that she has crossed over to 'cosmetic' and now is under their radar.


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## TashaBird (Jul 31, 2020)

I’ve taken the cautionary tales to heart and am considering getting all my legal ducks in a row, as I go. I’m not there yet, but am moving in that general direction. And, this isn’t perfect, but it sure does beat working upstairs in the kitchen!


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## TheGecko (Jul 31, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> This is great advice! I’d rather comply from the start. So, I’m looking to see how I can ready this new area as I’m organizing it. Is the HSCG insurance (Veracity) what most soap sellers have? Also, HSCG seems to be a good resource for requirements. Any others?



If you PM me with you email address, I can send you a write up I did for YouTube soaper.  I don't know a lot about the HSCG, but I did include a lot of information I had gleaned from official and notable sources and links.


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## TheGecko (Jul 31, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> I’ve taken the cautionary tales to heart and am considering getting all my legal ducks in a row, as I go. I’m not there yet, but am moving in that general direction. And, this isn’t perfect, but it sure does beat working upstairs in the kitchen!



I'm jealous!  That looks great.  The article said something about metal cages for light fixtures...which I believe is to make it difficult to accidently strike the bulbs.


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## MGM (Jul 31, 2020)

TheGecko said:


> While I understand why the FDA got involved in the first place, I don't understand their continued involvement if it was determined that she was just selling 'soap' because 'true soap' doesn't fall under their jurisdiction.  That leave me to believe that she is selling more than "true soap", that she has crossed over to 'cosmetic' and now is under their radar.


hmmmm that's true. I forgot that in the US there's the soap/non-soap split (in Canada it's all Health Canada). This makes me wonder if the story is a bit apocryphal....either way, guess she could get a visit from any regulating agency, but you're right, it's a bit odd...


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## mtinetti61 (Jul 31, 2020)

Just out of curiosity, what is the cost of insurance for soapmaking?


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## mtinetti61 (Jul 31, 2020)

I should have said soap selling....


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## TashaBird (Jul 31, 2020)

TheGecko said:


> I'm jealous!  That looks great.  The article said something about metal cages for light fixtures...which I believe is to make it difficult to accidently strike the bulbs.


The main light is the long led light. I hope to get some more of those.



mtinetti61 said:


> I should have said soap selling....


HSCG membership is $175 and I think the insurance was $275. Those were both for the smallest scale of selling available.


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## TheGecko (Aug 1, 2020)

MGM said:


> hmmmm that's true. I forgot that in the US there's the soap/non-soap split (in Canada it's all Health Canada). This makes me wonder if the story is a bit apocryphal....either way, guess she could get a visit from any regulating agency, but you're right, it's a bit odd...



In the US, soap making can fall into three areas...Consumer Commodity, Cosmetic and Drug (there is a fourth, but most artisan soap makers probably won't go there). Anyhoo...a True Soap, which is a soap that makes no other claims than that it will clean, is a Consumer Commodity and fall under the jurisdiction of the Consumer Product Safety Commission and Fair Packaging and Label Act. It used to just be the later, but now it is a double-header. The rules are still the same...must be labeled correctly and make no other claims that it is 'soap' and will get you clean. You don't even need to list your ingredients.

Now if your soap contains any synthetic detergents or is 'moisturizing' or contains 'moisturizing shea butter' or makes you smell good or changes your appearance...like shampoo or shave soaps...it is a Cosmetic. It is governed by the FDA (food and drug administration), but it's still pretty loosy goosy...registration is voluntary, you DO need to list your ingredients and list them in order predominance, neither product or the ingredients need approval though you need to make sure you are using approved color additives and you are solely responsible for making sure your product is safe.

Now if you claim that you soap is "antibacterial" and will help folks with acne or eczema, it falls under the FDA too, but it's a lot stricter. You'll have to register your company, you'll have to submit a list of all your products and recipes, you can be required to submit samples for testing, your soap has to be approval for sale and so on and so forth.

And of course, once under the jurisdiction of the FDA, you are subject to inspection and compliance thereof of manufacturing processes, et al.


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## The Park Bench (Aug 1, 2020)

I have been using a Waring Professional single plug in burner for 7 or 8 years now.  It goes from 1 - 5 for heat levels.  I always try to use NSF equipment because I feel it will not only last longer but will be easier to clean.


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## TashaBird (Aug 1, 2020)

The Park Bench said:


> I have been using a Waring Professional single plug in burner for 7 or 8 years now.  It goes from 1 - 5 for heat levels.  I always try to use NSF equipment because I feel it will not only last longer but will be easier to clean.


What is NSF?


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## The Park Bench (Aug 2, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> What is NSF?


NSF is the acronym for the National Sanitation Foundation.








						NSF International - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


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## Sharon Patterson (Aug 2, 2020)

mtinetti61 said:


> Just out of curiosity, what is the cost of insurance for soapmaking?


I use Handmade Insurance (handmadeinsurance.com).  Roughly $285 for $1 million coverage.


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## TashaBird (Aug 6, 2020)

Sharon Patterson said:


> I use Handmade Insurance (handmadeinsurance.com).  Roughly $285 for $1 million coverage.


That’s great to know. I’ll start looking for insurance soon.


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## shunt2011 (Aug 13, 2020)

Cosmo71 said:


> I had read this "a surprise visit for the FDA" I think the main issue that caused the inspection was the lady was labeling her soaps as medicinal! I have been soaping for about 2 weeks and even I know you shouldn't do that.  Making soap and selling soap are 2 completely different entities and if selling interests you, you better do your research before you try to market and sell a product that will be used on skin and sometimes looks like food. I want to sell soap but it sounds incredibly risky...definitely wouldn't do it without insurance.



It's not a problem making and selling soap that looks like food.  I make cupcake soaps and sometimes ice cream soap and have been selling them for years.   Insurance is a must and of course you have to have a Tax ID# and register your name with the clerks office. 

Labeling them appropriately is most important.  I get my insurance from WSP.  I had HSCG but they were expensive in comparison for me anyway.


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## TashaBird (Aug 13, 2020)

shunt2011 said:


> It's not a problem making and selling soap that looks like food.  I make cupcake soaps and sometimes ice cream soap and have been selling them for years.   Insurance is a must and of course you have to have a Tax ID# and register your name with the clerks office.
> 
> Labeling them appropriately is most important.  I get my insurance from WSP.  I had HSCG but they were expensive in comparison for me anyway.


WSP?


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## TheGecko (Aug 13, 2020)

Wholesale Supplies Plus.  Didn't know they had insurance.


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## TashaBird (Aug 16, 2020)

shunt2011 said:


> It's not a problem making and selling soap that looks like food.  I make cupcake soaps and sometimes ice cream soap and have been selling them for years.   Insurance is a must and of course you have to have a Tax ID# and register your name with the clerks office.
> 
> Labeling them appropriately is most important.  I get my insurance from WSP.  I had HSCG but they were expensive in comparison for me anyway.


I just scoured the WSP website looking for their insurance and I don’t see any. Could you possibly please post a link? I swear I did look for it!


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## shunt2011 (Aug 16, 2020)

Www.handmadeinsurance.com


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## TashaBird (Aug 16, 2020)

shunt2011 said:


> Www.handmadeinsurance.com


Oh great! That one was mentioned earlier, but I did not know it was through WSP.


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## RevolutionSoap (Oct 9, 2020)

I'm glad I found this thread.  My wife just told me I can't use "her kitchen" anymore.   So now I'm looking for burners and maybe a microwave to soap in a spare room.  Maybe a mini fridge too.  But that has nothing to do with soaping.


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## GemstonePony (Oct 9, 2020)

RevolutionSoap said:


> I'm glad I found this thread.  My wife just told me I can't use "her kitchen" anymore.   So now I'm looking for burners and maybe a microwave to soap in a spare room.  Maybe a mini fridge too.  But that has nothing to do with soaping.


What do you mean the mini fridge has nothing to do with soaping? Somebody, please tell me I'm not the only one munching snacks and drinking a beverage while melting my oils!  I put them out of the way before pulling out the lye, of course, but as soon as my soap is put to bed, I wash my gloves, remove my gloves, wash my hands, and continue munching. I find it's easier to process any unpleasant feelings about my soaping endeavors and the mountain of dishes I've created that way. 
Besides, refrigerating your butters and oils is supposed to help with shelf life.. so there's that, too.


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## RevolutionSoap (Oct 9, 2020)

I CP soap now on a gas stove.  But that's not really an option for my new area.  Should I go with induction, infrared or ?  Any advice on these options?


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## TheGecko (Oct 9, 2020)

RevolutionSoap said:


> I CP soap now on a gas stove.  But that's not really an option for my new area.  Should I go with induction, infrared or ?  Any advice on these options?



You can use a hot plate if you want.


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## RevolutionSoap (Oct 9, 2020)

I ordered this one last night. I think it will work great. 



			https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M98956Y/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fab_t8hGFbX189PMG


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## The Park Bench (Oct 9, 2020)

I use a NSF rated electric hot plate by Waring professional ... It's called "professional extra burner" and it works fantastically for melting my oils


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## earlene (Oct 9, 2020)

RevolutionSoap said:


> I ordered this one last night. I think it will work great.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M98956Y/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fab_t8hGFbX189PMG


It will.

I bought a hot plate for cooking while traveling many many years ago, and used it frequently, even for heating oils for soapmaking on the road. I ended up giving it to my son a few years ago when he moved into a place without a working stove.


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## Zing (Oct 10, 2020)

I love my trusty Oster electric hot plate!  When we moved into our house -- WITH NO KITCHEN! _AND_ 4 COVID refugees moving in -- I bought the hotplate and originally thought of it as a stopgap.  Then we finished our kitchen and with all the new beautiful surfaces, I was paranoid to work with lye.  So I repurposed the basement wood shop into my soap shop and still using my trusty hotplate.  Our old house was set up differently and I would have to haul 2 boxes of soap stuff into the kitchen every time.  I love having a dedicated space and having everything just out and within reach.


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## d20chick (Oct 10, 2020)

I can't wait to see pictures of people's workspaces!  I'm just getting started and just work in my kitchen (and outside for the lye)


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## PaganArts (Oct 11, 2020)

d20chick said:


> I can't wait to see pictures of people's workspaces!  I'm just getting started and just work in my kitchen (and outside for the lye)


That's what I do as well, it's a pain dragging everything out, cleaning up and putting it all away though.


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