# The Oldest Documented Soap Recipe!



## Meshaal (Dec 28, 2018)

Hello everyone!

I think it would be so much fun reproducing old soap recipes! I have done some research and I came across three old recipes written in the Arabic literature.

1. short description written by al-Razi who were an Arab alchemist and physician. (10th Cent.)
2. long description written by a king in Yemen. (13th Cent) http://www.history-science-technology.com/notes/notes5.html
3. short description written by al-Antaki a Syrian pharmacist. (17th Cent)


Does anyone know of other old soap recipes?


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## Misschief (Dec 29, 2018)

That was an interesting read, Meshaal. Thank you!


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## Obsidian (Dec 29, 2018)

and here I thought my gramas recipe was old lol.


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## Zany_in_CO (Dec 29, 2018)

SMF member Kathy McGinnis (Soaping 101 on You Tube) in her introduction to Aleppo Soap gives a brief but interesting history of soaping making on this video:



If you click on "Show More", there is a link to a video that shows how Aleppo Soap was made in the 8th century. Sadly, the city of Aleppo was obliterated during the Syrian war as were most of the 60 soap making factories  that kept the centuries old tradition alive and previously flourished throughout the country


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## Meshaal (Dec 29, 2018)

Thank you all for participating in the thread. Unfortunately, I only found the English translation of the Yemeni king description of soap making in his era. I'm still looking for the al-Razi's description. I have the third one, al-Antaki's description, only in Arabic. Once I found an English translation I will add it here.

Zany- many thanks for sharing the video, I will be watching it now


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## DeeAnna (Dec 29, 2018)

Here's a soap making method written in 1742 by Monsieur Claude Joseph Geoffroy, a noted French pharmacist and chemist, in a letter to an Englishman David Hartley.

The author explains in detail how he makes a lye solution (he also uses the word lees to mean lye) by combining lime with the carbonate alkali made from the ash of specific kinds of seacoast plants. This combination converts the carbonate lye into an hydroxide lye. This hydroxide lye is close to the NaOH solution we use today for making soap.

He then explains how he uses this hydroxide lye to saponify "the best oils." Tallow and olive were most likely the fats he would have had available, and I'm guessing since he says "oils," he probably used olive oil.

He refers to Alicant soap in much the same way as we refer nowadays to Castile soap. Alicant is a city on the coast of southeastern Spain and apparently was a noted source for the high-quality ashes needed to make his lye solution. 

Geoffroy also mentions how the relatively pure soap made by his method was used for medical purposes. Some of my other reading explains that soap was often mixed with medicines and formed into pills a person would swallow.

Monsieur Geoffroy is quite dismissive of the English soap makers who used carbonate lye from regular wood ashes for making soap. He doesn't think much of how slow that process is nor of the soap makers' need to then add salt to firm up the texture.

The footnotes on each page are my notes that explain the archaic names and unusual words that he used.

More about Monsieur Geoffroy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Joseph_Geoffroy
This David Hartley might have been his correspondent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hartley_(philosopher)


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## Meshaal (Dec 30, 2018)

@DeeAnna great input! this is definitely useful .. hopefully we can make a bank of text of soapmaking methods, techniques, and recipes of the past.

I also found a book called _The Secrets of Maister Alexis of Piemont_ written in the 16th Cent by an Italian alchemist and physician. The book is available in PDF form free to download, you can search for it in google. I cannot post the link of this book here as it contradicts with the forum rules. However, it is easily found if you google it.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 30, 2018)

Not sure why you think posting a helpful link is against forum rules. I post links to information fairly often and have never gotten dinged for it. If you post a link to your website to sell stuff, well that's a different matter entirely.

Here's one source for the Alexis treatise: 
More about the author: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexius_Pedemontanus


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## Zany_in_CO (Dec 30, 2018)

Meshaal said:


> @DeeAnna  I cannot post the link of this book here as it contradicts with the forum rules


Really? I didn't know that. I post all kinds of links to support whatever it is that I need to share info.


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## Meshaal (Dec 31, 2018)

@DeeAnna @Zany_in_CO , the issue is that whenever you enter the archive website a donation message pops up .. this contradicts with the forum rules. I posted the link of this book in the main thread post and the link was removed by the Admins due to this.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 31, 2018)

The donation only pops up at certain times of the year, but even if the donation request was a permanent feature, I truly question whether this is the specific reason why your post was removed. The Internet Archive is not your website for selling soap or B&B products; it's a general information website.

"Main thread post" ? Not sure what you mean by this.


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## Meshaal (Dec 31, 2018)

DeeAnna said:


> The donation only pops up at certain times of the year, but even if the donation request was a permanent feature, I truly question whether this is the specific reason why your post was removed. The Internet Archive is not your website for selling soap or B&B products; it's a general information website.



Yes, In a private message.



DeeAnna said:


> "Main thread post" ? Not sure what you mean by this.



I meant the post at the top of this page. This book was listed there (with the other 3 treatise I posted) with the same link you posted, however it was removed by the Admin for this reason. The Admin informed me that she edited the post and removed the link with the name of the book altogether due to the link has a donation pop up...etc


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## DeeAnna (Dec 31, 2018)

You're right, @Meshaal. I apologize for doubting you and I stand corrected.


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## karon L adams (Jan 1, 2019)

one of the reasons we have so little soapmaking tradition in the West is that soap was one of the most heavily taxed items in Western Europe. if you were caught making it at home and did not pay the tax on the soap you had made, from ingredients that you owned, you could be jailed. at a time that jail was a truly awful thing.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jan 1, 2019)

karon L adams said:


> one of the reasons we have so little soapmaking tradition in the West is that soap was one of THE most heavily taxed items in Western Europe. if you were caught making it at home and did not pay the tax on the soap YOU had made, from ingredients that YOU owned, you could be jailed. at a time that jail was a truly awful thing.


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## SoapWitch (Jan 2, 2019)

Karon L Adams, that is a horrible thing... It's on par with feeding yourself from your land and being taxed. 
I love the history of soap making... I wondered what are the oldest soap recipes some of you have? (Not that I expect you to share it, just wondering how old the recipes are.) What generation of soap maker are you? 



karon L adams said:


> one of the reasons we have so little soap making tradition in the West is that soap was one of the most heavily taxed items in Western Europe. if you were caught making it at home and did not pay the tax on the soap you had made, from ingredients that you owned, you could be jailed. at a time that jail was a truly awful thing.


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## dxw (Jan 2, 2019)

Eber's Papyrus (ca 1550BC)?
I suspect ancient Chinese scholars will have relevant writings too, but they're not accessible to me.


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## Iluminameluna (Jan 3, 2019)

My paternal grandmother, from El Salvador, had ladies come to her house to make soap for her. They'd keep some of it as trade for their labors.
My grandma would save the rendered fats of pig and get avocado seed oil from a neighbor who made it for his own family, but had ties to my grandmother. She'd also prepare the ashes she'd collected over the previous year by having already sifted for them.
I can't really say she made it, but I loved watching it being prepared. The ladies would arrive either on an evening, or very early in the morning, and after some food, or a good sleep, they start. First thing was to set the ashes in water, then melting the 50 or more pounds of lard. My grandma had a HUGE clay cauldron that was only used for soap, and the ladies (usually 3 of them) would set about getting it washed. I was the designated water girl, but only because since arriving at my grandma's for the first time, I became enamored of hauling water from the DEEP well! I got some leg muscles in the process!
The rest of the time, that first day, was arranging for the big fire over which the soap would be cooked.
After developing some serious skin issues, I decided to learn to make soap. Imagine my surprise at not needing to do all of the above!!


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## Joshua Hess (May 11, 2021)

Meshaal said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I think it would be so much fun reproducing old soap recipes! I have done some research and I came across three old recipes written in the Arabic literature.
> 
> ...


Arguably the 'recipe' for soap in Numbers 19 would be significantly older.


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