# Does everyone eventually start selling?



## I_like_melts (May 17, 2018)

It seems like every crafter (especially for wax melts and soap) starts out saying the same things I did. "Wax is expensive and I'll save money if I start making it" or "This looks like fun" with no intention to sell. Then, friends and family start asking you to make things, one thing leads to another, and then you wind up on Etsy. Is that normal progression for these hobbies? This is simply meant as an observation, lol.


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## shunt2011 (May 17, 2018)

Nope, many continue to keep it as a hobby and something for themselves and family.  Starting a business now s very difficult as there are so many people making/selling.


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## I_like_melts (May 17, 2018)

shunt2011 said:


> Nope, many continue to keep it as a hobby and something for themselves and family.  Starting a business now s very difficult as there are so many people making/selling.


Good point. I guess I got more into it since I know a few people who sold on Etsy when I started and don't live near anyone I know (family is in Indiana, friends are all over the place). Making grab bags for friends and family (20 large bags of wax melts) last Christmas did wonders for my anxiety too, and I see wax/soap more like abstract art since then.


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## Steve85569 (May 17, 2018)

No.
I enjoy the hobby and low stress level.
Also the chemistry and keeping my mind active.
Did I mention FO's and EO's?

OOO! look! I could use that for a mold!


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## dixiedragon (May 17, 2018)

I would say many people at least take a crack at selling - small local shows, etc.


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## I_like_melts (May 17, 2018)

Steve85569 said:


> No.
> I enjoy the hobby and low stress level.
> Also the chemistry and keeping my mind active.
> Did I mention FO's and EO's?
> ...


 
Oh geez the molds. I have more molds than I can store and Im still finding more ! Lol I saw one that makes 3D full sized apples.


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## BrewerGeorge (May 17, 2018)

I will take commissions from a select few now, but have no interest at all in selling other than that.

I've seen too many home brewers destroy their hobby by trying to make it a business - even those who succeeded at the business.

As far as soap goes, I didn't come into this looking to save money in the first place, so I might have started from a different place than many.  I came to soap explicitly looking for a new hobby that would allow me to create useful things and learn things.  So for me, the hobby has always been the most important part.


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## IrishLass (May 17, 2018)

For some folks that might be the full progression of things , but for a lot more folks (at least I think so according to my observations over the years), it's like a wave on the shore, i.e., it progresses to a certain point and looks like it might go further, but then pulls back and remains a hobby. At least that's how it was with me......

I'm the type of person that simply enjoys making things from scratch, and soaping started out as just another fun, interesting endeavor for me, but then things quickly progressed to the point where my giftees of family and friends loved my soap so much that they began enthusiastically encouraging me to sell. The pressure encouragement to sell became so strong that for awhile I seriously toyed with the idea of taking things to the next level, but I know myself too well.....I would have grown to passionately hate the pressure and stress of having to make gobs of soap to meet a deadline instead of wanting to make it for the sheer enjoyment of making it and happily giving it away as gifts.......... so I (happily) remain a hobbyist. 


IrishLass


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## I_like_melts (May 17, 2018)

IrishLass said:


> For some folks that might be the full progression of things , but for a lot more folks (at least I think so according to my observations over the years), it's like a wave on the shore, i.e., it progresses to a certain point and looks like it might go further, but then pulls back and remains a hobby. At least that's how it was with me......
> 
> I'm the type of person that simply enjoys making things from scratch, and soaping started out as just another fun, interesting endeavor for me, but then things quickly progressed to the point where my giftees of family and friends loved my soap so much that they began enthusiastically encouraging me to sell. The pressure encouragement to sell became so strong that for awhile I seriously toyed with the idea of taking things to the next level, but I know myself too well.....I would have grown to passionately hate the pressure and stress of having to make gobs of soap to meet a deadline instead of wanting to make it for the sheer enjoyment of making it and happily giving it away as gifts.......... so I (happily) remain a hobbyist.
> 
> ...



One of my acquaintances bought a few bars of soap from me. He said he loved one so much he doesn't want to use anything else  It makes it hard to say no. I'm still making what I want, regardless of market demand, especially when it comes to gifts


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (May 19, 2018)

I do find it odd that this craft, and actually other crafts, tends to have this progression. 

If making soap as often as one wants is too expensive.......don't make soap as often as one wants to! Don't pour more money than you should in to the hobby and then sell purely because you need to do so to support the hobby.


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## dibbles (May 19, 2018)

I too am keeping soap making to a hobby. Do I have too much soap? Of course I do. I think about selling every once in awhile, but after I really sit and think about everything that comes with starting and growing a business - especially in a saturated market, reality thankfully sets in. Twenty years ago maybe, but not at this point in my life. Almost everyone I know is now a hand made soap convert, and appreciates it when I give them a bag full of soap to use and share with others. I'm always on the look out for organizations to donate to. I do realize how lucky I am that my husband is supportive of my hobby so there are no issues there.


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## cmzaha (May 19, 2018)

My journey started out because of my daughter, I actually had not intentions of making soap let alone selling it. In desperation for money, my daughters hubby could not find work here, she started with m&p and talked me into making cp soap. She is an epileptic with rheumatoid arthritis and had a young toddler at the time, and just could not work with lye. So the journey began and I fell in love with making soap and selling at markets plus it was something to do after retirement and not being able to travel due to the parents. For 4 years my daughter supported her family with her m&p and other products but it was a huge amount of work and promoting, you do not just decide to sell and make money... 

Funny thing is,  I have no family members, with the exception of one Sister in Law, that beg for soap, but do expect me to supply it for special occasions such as holidays and most of our good friends are no longer with us, so the family and friends do not work for me...


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## NsMar42111 (May 19, 2018)

I actually had a friend who was a soaper who encouraged me to start making soap. At first it was just christmas presents, and then people wanted to buy  more bars that I had given them, and then a friend opened up a small shop and asked if I wanted to put soap in it. Right now I just do that shop and one other, toyed with going online but haven't done so yet. It was nice today when after I restocked and was chatting a guy ran in and grabbed two bars and went right for the checkout...raving to the cashier about how great the soap was...didn't know I was the maker standing there! 

The temptation to try and monetize hobbies is huge...I'm also a musician and did a bunch of gigging to justify spending money on equipment...I figured it out once and I barely made minimum wage! Below if you start figuring in practicing time (individual and band). But now that I"m not in a band, I can't go somewhere and play for free/low because I know I'll be undercutting "working" musicians... so I don't get to play much anymore.  

I've also sold bonsai (another hobby) at farmers' markets and online, again to justify spending on the hobby. Learned quickly it's a "splurge" item and very very seasonal...so now I just grow for myself. I've toyed with selling them again, but for now it's a "real" hobby LOL. Ditto for miniatures (scenes and such), found I liked it better making them for gifts than I did  trying to make for selling. Temptation is real....


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## cerelife (May 20, 2018)

I first thought of selling for the same reasons as so many others. "Ooohh, I love your soap! Best stuff ever! You should sell this!!", etc.
BUT...I had so many things to consider before I started selling. Can I afford the cost of starting a business (licenses, insurance, etc.)? Do I have the time and energy to devote to a business? My husband and I both have full time careers, so this was a huge question for me (the time and energy). When I had an opportunity to take a position for three 12-hour shifts at the hospital instead of five 8-hour shifts I jumped on it! But I still played it safe by setting up a meeting with our accountants to determine if my idea for creating a business was viable for me personally for exactly the reason Irish Lass mentioned.


IrishLass said:


> I would have grown to passionately hate the pressure and stress of having to make gobs of soap to meet a deadline instead of wanting to make it for the sheer enjoyment of making it
> IrishLass


With the accountants' help and advice, I created my business. I intentionally keep things small enough to be manageable - for instance you can only order from my website by calling or emailing me. But I do a few shows/markets/festivals to generate enough income and word of mouth sales to justify my tax deductions and keep the IRS from declaring my business a 'hobby'. 
So far this works for me, and I look at the work I'm doing now as the groundwork for my retirement. I'm slowly but surely building a loyal clientele and a reputation of quality for my business. When I retire in 10 years or so, I hope to supplement my income by doing a circuit of festivals and shows in the places I would want to visit anyway!


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## Lin19687 (May 20, 2018)

@cerelife  Oh the 12 hr shifts !!  Hate and Love all at the same time.  Unfortunately at my ER I always got nailed with the Fri-Sun or Sat-Mon shifts at least once a month. That took me 2 days to recover the older I got.  Took a Trauma Surgeon's personal Secretary/Reception spot, M-F and didn't look back ! A lot more Drama in the office setting but nice when we have a Blizzard and the office is closed  plus I get up and sleep at the same time just about every day.

I started back in '04 or '05 for our sensitive skin, worked PT back then and had a very small child at home.  Then thought to sell some of the extras at a market.  Did ok, made back the Fee plus I think $50 so not bad for a VERY tiny market of 8 vendors.
Then life happened, divorce, moving, raising 2 kids alone with no child support.  Just couldn't afford the supplies or time.

Now I can, money and time, so I want to really give it a go.  Just needed to stop procrastinating, finalize on a recipe and GO.
So while I am not 'new' to soaping, I am new to some different techniques and making CP instead of HP.


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## DeeAnna (May 20, 2018)

I think most people don't realize how time consuming it can be to own a small business, even the tiniest of tiny small biz. You might make the best soap in the universe, but if you don't have ready cash, marketing skills, people skills, and the ability to manage your resources, it doesn't matter how wonderful your soap is nor how beautiful your packaging and designs are. You can't have a viable business without being willing to also learn the skills needed to run a business.

It usually takes most small businesses 3-5 years to really get things figured out. During that time, a person must be able to pump in outside money (don't quit your day job!), build solid business skills, deal with the inevitable cash flow problems, and develop a decent market. Many fail instead due to lack of resources -- time, money, energy -- and a decent market.

"...Small businesses fail for several reasons, but the most common reasons include a lack of demand, poor management, and cash flow issues...." https://www.fundera.com/blog/what-percentage-of-small-businesses-fail

I'm not saying that a person shouldn't try it ... just be realistic and practical rather than starry eyed about what you're getting into.


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## cmzaha (May 20, 2018)

Even large businesses fail...


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## NsMar42111 (May 20, 2018)

DeeAnna, that's a great article you linked!

I agree, the "business" side of it is what kills most hobbiest turned business owners...it's why I'm staying small for now and haven't expanded. Working 12 hour shifts (which I prefer over 8s actually!) on nights (sigh) I thought would give me more time for the business side...but that hasn't worked out yet (sleeeeeep). It's all the "little" things adding up cost wise that can kill a small business. Ooooh I need fancy business cards! Brochures! Banners! Displays! Tablecloths! Packaging! Info signs! A website! Payment processor! 30% self employed tax! Next thing you know, wham, no profit much less paying yourself...


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## Rogue-Soaper (May 20, 2018)

I have been soaping for many years.  My son as a child, had eczema, so I made tallow soap for him a couple of times a year.  He loved it.  Then I discovered other oils. I was hooked.  I have tweeted the recipe until I love it.  I make lots of soap, but have no desire to sell it.  I give it away to almost everyone.  When I have a batch that I either don’t like the fragrance or the design is “ugly” and a Christmas time I donate soap to the local homeless shelter.  
BTW, my son is 45 and still raids my soap stash.


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## DeeAnna (May 20, 2018)

Even though I sell my soap at one local gift shop and on my (non-B&B) website, I still consider my soapmaking to be a hobby. The modest demand from the gift shop and from a few friends and family let me make enough soap often enough to make the hobby worth pursuing. If someone came to me with a proposal to add enough volume of sales to turn my soap making into a "real" business, I'd most likely turn them down.

I don't have any desire to do craft shows or farmer markets any more, which seems to be the way a lot of soap makers sell their wares. Shows/markets can sometimes be fun, and they can be a good way to advertise one's business. I don't see them, however, as the sole way to make a business viable or pay the owner a living wage. I don't think I've ever done a show/fair and actually felt like I could even pay myself at minimum wage for the time involved.


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## cmzaha (May 20, 2018)

I agree with DeeAnna, even when attending up to 5 markets a week I will say it did not even come close to a living wage, but it does give us extra money for going out, buying groceries etc, and saves my sanity which is the biggest asset of all.


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## DeeAnna (May 20, 2018)

Soapmaker123 said:


> ...Soap making can become a profitable business within the first 6 months, I have found, twice, when done right....



Do tell! What in your opinion does it take to do it right and achieve profitability in 6 months? What did it take for you to accomplish that goal, given that so many do not?


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## Primrose (May 20, 2018)

I'm interested to hear that as well! 

I actually started out the opposite, with my end goal to start selling as I'm looking to market my goat milk in some way. 

A little over a year after I started soaping I'm almost ready to sell. Waiting till august/September for our NICNAS registration


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## Desederata (May 20, 2018)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> I do find it odd that this craft, and actually other crafts, tends to have this progression.
> 
> If making soap as often as one wants is too expensive.......don't make soap as often as one wants to! Don't pour more money than you should in to the hobby and then sell purely because you need to do so to support the hobby.


good advice........I hope I can adhere to it.


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## scard (May 20, 2018)

I hope at some time to sell a bit of soap, just to supplement my retirement, but I'm not there yet and I'm in no hurry. I really have a lot more learning and experimenting left to do. I also do other artwork and I'm in the process of opening an Etsy shop for that. The selling part doesn't thrill me but if I don't sell I can't create.   (and it gets a bit crowded  here)


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## SunRiseArts (May 20, 2018)

I did a bazaar last Christmas.  I did good.  But the cost of selling like that, compare to what you spend, I personally think is not worth it.  I am sure if you keep at it,  you can make a little income out of it.  But to have a full salary out of it, seems to me very, very difficult.  Seems to me you would have to really commit.  I prefer the creative process...  I also like to always try new things, patterns, recipes.. probably not the best approach for those who sale.

One would have to sell a lot of soaps daily.  I like Dean on the tube.  Once he made a good breakdown of it.  Soaping 101 also has good videos on the subject.


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## BrewerGeorge (May 20, 2018)

Profitable is easy.  I'm profitable on the stuff I make on commission.  A living wage is another story.


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## DeeAnna (May 20, 2018)

Good point, BG.

I'll never get rich from my small biz, but it pays me an acceptable income, pays all its bills, doesn't require me to carry long-term debt, lets me employ another person who is a marketing wizard (that's not my strength), and pays her a fair wage too. I seriously doubt I could do all this with a soap making business.


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## cmzaha (May 21, 2018)

DeeAnna said:


> Good point, BG.
> 
> I'll never get rich from my small biz, but it pays me an acceptable income, pays all its bills, doesn't require me to carry long-term debt, lets me employ another person who is a marketing wizard (that's not my strength), and pays her a fair wage too. I seriously doubt I could do all this with a soap making business.


I seriously doubt it too.



DeeAnna said:


> Do tell! What in your opinion does it take to do it right and achieve profitability in 6 months? What did it take for you to accomplish that goal, given that so many do not?


Not sure where the post went but Soapmaker seems to like us to all know they have the capital to purchase big tanks, molds etc and have a shop, but that does not mean it is self supporting or making money, but it looks good....  bite my tongue...

We do have a successful Soap Company here, but they started before the huge surge  https://soaptopia.com/pages/soapstory


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## I_like_melts (May 21, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> I seriously doubt it too.
> 
> 
> Not sure where the post went but Soapmaker seems to like us to all know they have the capital to purchase big tanks, molds etc and have a shop, but that does not mean it is self supporting or making money, but it looks good....  bite my tongue...



Many businesses are profitable within 6 months, BUT the people behind them usually have connections, start up capital, and some business acumen (or someone in their life that does). Accounting is a must.

Not to sound negative about the video  (I liked it!  Good examples) but I do want to point out that for years I "got by" on less than 10k per year, and working part time minimum wage would be far less then that. (I dont make that now lol) so, video wise, I if I sold 4-5 bars per day, or 1,825 per year, I'd be producing decent income opposed to say, working McDonalds  Not trying to poke holes, but pointing out why it seems feasable to some people.


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## amd (May 21, 2018)

I'm "one of those" who started my business to support my hobby. I dove in without any research into the business side of things - absolutely crazy for me. I researched soapmaking for a year before I made my first soap, and then spent a year making soap. The only thing I knew was that I had a good base recipe that wouldn't go bad in 6 months to a year. I've learned a lot and still have lots to learn about the cost of doing business. At tax time my husband was upset to learn that my business was -$300. I was beyond ecstatic - in 2015 I was -$1500 and in 2016 I was -$800, so to me -$300 was a sign of growth. Whether it was better bookkeeping, better planning, or just flat-out more selling (hopefully all three!), it meant I was learning something. I was accomplishing something. It might take me another 3-5 years to make up for those negative years, but I'm ok with that. If I could go back in time, I would have spent more time making a business plan, but I would still have my business. I don't think that would change that my first 3 years had losses, but it would have minimized those losses. I don't do this to get rich, or replace my day job, I do this because I truly enjoy making soap and when someone picks up a bar of my soap and tells me it's a work of art, it makes me happy. When customers call because they are stressed out, out of soap, and in desperate need of shower therapy, that makes me happy.


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## Relle (May 21, 2018)

DeeAnna said:


> Do tell! What in your opinion does it take to do it right and achieve profitability in 6 months? What did it take for you to accomplish that goal, given that so many do not?



DeeAnna, - Soapmaker 123 is no longer part of the forum.


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## DeeAnna (May 21, 2018)

Thanks, Relle. That's too bad -- I was sure hoping Soapmaker would share more info.


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## artemis (May 21, 2018)

Relle said:


> DeeAnna, - Soapmaker 123 is no longer part of the forum.


How strange: I thought I read a reply from them in another thread just yesterday or the day before.


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## Zany_in_CO (May 22, 2018)

I started soaping in 2003 at age 60 when I happened across a book on soapmaking in the bargain bin at B & N -- just about the same time my favorite $5  DHC Mild Face Soap went up in price! Again! It's now going at $17 for a 3.1 ounce bar! YIKES! It was a transparent soap and so one of my first soaps was a transparent soap -- before I knew how challenging they are to pull off! LOL

I read the book and I said to myself, "Self, you can do this!" And boy am I glad I did. Whenever I think about all the money I saved over the years, I can justify all the money I spend on soap & lotion making. Almost! LOL I make CP, HP, liquid soap, transparent soap; lotions & potions; green cleaning & laundry supplies. Altho I’m no expert, I’m drawn to the therapeutic use of herbs and essential oils.

I’m a hobbyist.  I never wanted to make it a business -- been there; done that! LOL But I did want my hobby to be self-sustaining so, out of necessity, I sold my inventory at an annual garage sale during the early years and made enough to buy supplies for the following year. Thus creating a satisfying vicious cycle.

I don’t do markets -- can’t take the heat! And I don’t have a website -- ‘puter challenged. I do have a wholesale customer that keeps me busy making GM soap, lotion, lip balms, etc. My best products are formulated for pain relief: Achy Breaky Balm (minor joint & muscle pain); MSM Emu Oil Cream (arthritis); GM Lotion with 6 essential oils (arthritis & fibro).



I_like_melts said:


> Many businesses are profitable within 6 months, BUT the people behind them usually have connections, start up capital, and some business acumen (or someone in their life that does). Accounting is a must.


Spot on! In college, I was an English major with a Business minor and enough accounting credits to become a CPA. (Ugh.) Start up capital came from our joint account and I paid that back within the first year, with enough $ to fund supplies for the following year. Our CPA advised me that I could make up to $3,000 and it would fall into the category of "Casual Sales", i.e., no need to claim it on our joint tax return. Perfect!

After about four years, I muddled along until I joined Southern Soapers Yahoo Group. There, just by happenstance, I picked up a wholesale customer here and there along the way that I made stuff for. That's when I reached that annual $3,000 goal and did just enough "business" to be fun and rewarding.

I'm lucky and grateful to have found a happy medium between a Hobby vs a Business. Other Colorado soapers I know started out doing markets and events, but the ones who are actually earning a living at it are certified Master Soapers, no longer doing markets and into wholesaling to small businesses all across the USA. Teaching is also a huge revenue maker. Imagine charging $135 per class, 10 students, holding classes at a local soap & lotion making supplier's warehouse.

SHORT STORY about the importance of having Contacts
"Accounting Chick", was a Canadian on the Handcrafted Soapmaking Forum. The firm she worked for catered to high end clients like Goldie Hawn & Kurt Russel. Their boys played hockey in BC and they had a home there.  One of the partners in the firm absconded with all the money and fled to Australia. On hold while awaiting to testify at the trial, Accounting Chick learned to make soap.

At that time, I was perfecting my "Rebatch with Alcohol" method for making transparent soap. She asked if it was possible to rebatch 100% olive oil castile. As it happened, I had just done that and shared the technique with her. Two months later, she was in business and doing quite well! Also too busy to play on the forum, I might add. LOL Never heard from her again but I often wonder...


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## Relle (May 23, 2018)

artemis said:


> How strange: I thought I read a reply from them in another thread just yesterday or the day before.


Yes, they had a couple of posts a couple of days ago. They are no longer part of the forum.


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