# How to dilute LS similar to Dr. BRonners



## Tfitzp02 (Aug 28, 2019)

I've made Olive oil LS and also Coconut oil LS.  Diluting the paste is driving me nuts.  I'm assuming diluting 1:1 will bring MY LS to base line that is roughly the starting point of Dr Bronners Castile soaps.  I would like to try some recipes that calls for his LS but use mine instead.  

Any advice would be most helpful!
Thanks
Terri


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## shunt2011 (Aug 28, 2019)

Hello and welcome!  Firstly, Dr. Bronners isn't truly castile.   Castile soap is 100% Olive Oil.    Assuming a 1:1 dilution isn't correct.  Different recipes and even the same recipe will require different amounts for dilution.   I've never used Dr. Bronners so can't speak to it's texture.  There are several liquid soap recipes and postings on the forum.   Might be a good read for you.

Here's one:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/my-creamy-cocoa-shea-gls-tutorial.57974/

Makes a lovely soap.


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## Tfitzp02 (Aug 28, 2019)

shunt2011 said:


> Hello and welcome!  Firstly, Dr. Bronners isn't truly castile.   Castile soap is 100% Olive Oil.    Assuming a 1:1 dilution isn't correct.  Different recipes and even the same recipe will require different amounts for dilution.   I've never used Dr. Bronners so can't speak to it's texture.  There are several liquid soap recipes and postings on the forum.   Might be a good read for you.
> 
> Here's one:
> https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/my-creamy-cocoa-shea-gls-tutorial.57974/
> ...


Thanks for your response.  Yes, I'm aware what true castile soap is as I made both different kinds.  I do know tat Dr. Bronners many versions of castile isnt true castile.  

I guess I wasnt clear enough. I'm combining my true castile soaps together at different ratios to incorporate into different types of soaps for the body, hands and face.   For each type (coconut as well as olive oil paste) how do I start out.  1:1 wateraste ratio for each castile type then use that concentration in the recipe (which is then further diluted in most recipes I've seen).

It's the baseline castile liquid soap I'm looking for dilution ratio.


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## shunt2011 (Aug 28, 2019)

There's really no set ratio is what I'm trying to explain.  You'll need to test individual recipes.  Also, some will never be thick enough.   Many recipes are very thin with very little lather. 

You'll need to do some research on your own with recipes.  There are many threads on the forum.  I've only ever made the one I linked to.


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## Tfitzp02 (Aug 28, 2019)

shunt2011 said:


> There's really no set ratio is what I'm trying to explain.  You'll need to test individual recipes.  Also, some will never be thick enough.   Many recipes are very thin with very little lather.
> 
> You'll need to do some research on your own with recipes.  There are many threads on the forum.  I've only ever made the one I linked to.


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## Tfitzp02 (Aug 28, 2019)

Again, thanks for your quick response.  I wasnt looking for thickness just the ratio to start with for coconut oil castile liquid soap and the ratio for olive oil castile liquid soap.  I've performed research and did PH testing for several ratios for both LS.  I also did PH testing (various methods) for a combined version of the two Castile's at different ratios.  Just thought there was a baseline starting point out there that I was missing.  

At this point, I'm thinking I've got it covered more that what's out there.  
Thanks for your help!!
T


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## DeeAnna (Aug 28, 2019)

I don't get the "baseline ratio" thing. Do you mean you want to dilute each type of LS to one set percentage of pure soap? Or do you want to dilute each one to a specific viscosity (thickness) regardless of the pure soap percentage? Or is there some tutorial or other reference you can provide to explain what you do mean in more detail.

As far as thickness goes, you won't ever get the coconut oil LS to have the same viscosity as olive oil LS by dilution alone, if you're wanting to dilute them to a honey-thick viscosity. Salt is also not likely work as a thickener on coconut LS. A gum or cellulose based thickener will most likely be required.

The pH of soap needs to be tested using a 1-10% dilution of soap in distilled water at room temperature using a calibrated pH meter. Otherwise the pH will test artificially low. Also pH test strips are usually inaccurate -- most give an artificially low reading.


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## Tfitzp02 (Aug 28, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> I don't get the "baseline ratio" thing. Do you mean you want to dilute each type of LS to one set percentage of pure soap? Or do you want to dilute each one to a specific viscosity (thickness) regardless of the pure soap percentage? Or is there some tutorial or other reference you can provide to explain what you do mean in more detail.
> 
> As far as thickness goes, you won't ever get the coconut oil LS to have the same viscosity as olive oil LS by dilution alone, if you're wanting to dilute them to a honey-thick viscosity. Salt is also not likely work as a thickener on coconut LS. A gum or cellulose based thickener will most likely be required.
> 
> The pH of soap needs to be tested using a 1-10% dilution of soap in distilled water at room temperature using a calibrated pH meter. Otherwise the pH will test artificially low. Also pH test strips are usually inaccurate -- most give an artificially low reading.



Hi!
I want to dilute each type of LS to one set percentage of pure soap.  The thickness doesnt matter for what I'm looking for.

The PH, I use Apera meter test kit and I also cross reference with two types of test strips.

I'm testing at 9.4 on a 1:1 ratio on the coconut and 9.2 on the olive oil same ratio.  I want to ensure I'm along the correct path before I mix to make foaming face soap.  Then oll be working on the body liquid soap.  Does that make sense?  I'm glad you havent given up on me yet!  Thank you.


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## shunt2011 (Aug 28, 2019)

No, I'm still not understanding your thought process.   Liquid soap is liquid soap.  How are you going to differentiate face wash from body wash?  PH strips are useless.   The PH of soap is 8.5-12.  Bar or liquid.  So what are you testing ph for?   It's not going to tell you if it's lye heavy or not.    I use bar soap on my face and liquid soap.  I use the same on my body.   Maybe I'm just confused in what your trying to do.


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## DeeAnna (Aug 28, 2019)

I'm with Shari about liquid (KOH) soap being liquid soap. You can call it by any name you want for marketing purposes, but whatever name is on the label, it's still really just liquid soap.

I guess I can see making a blend with less coconut oil LS for washing the face and a blend with more coconut oil LS for general bathing. Is that what you're going after with the idea of a face soap vs a body soap?

***

_"...I'm testing at 9.4 on a 1:1 ratio on the coconut and 9.2 on the olive oil same ratio...."_

A 1:1 ratio of water and paste is too concentrated for accurate pH testing if you want to do it correctly. The soap solution should be 1% to 10% soap on a pure soap basis.  

I confess I don't understand your emphasis on the pH -- are you trying to make your products "pH balanced"?

The pH of a properly made LS will vary slightly depending on the fatty acid blend in the soap mixture, but soap is always going to be alkaline, as Shari explained.

***

If you want to compare apples and apples, you would figure everything on the basis of pure soap weight or the percentage of pure soap in a particular mixture --

Pure soap weight = fat weight + alkali (KOH) weight
Total batch weight = fat weight + alkali (KOH) weight + weight of everything else
Pure soap % = Pure soap weight / Total batch weight X 100​


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## Dahila (Aug 28, 2019)

Apera is a good ph meter,   Mix 5 g of soap paste in the  45 grams of water it will give you ph,  Always solution.
BTW I do not understand the trend to check ph in LS we all know that it is 9-14 ph
LS seems to be on lower range around 10.  The last one I added some sufracants to make it maybe mild (one of my experiments) and went to 9 ph ,  The surfacant is 6 ph


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## Zany_in_CO (Aug 28, 2019)

Tfitzp02 said:


> I've made Olive oil LS and also Coconut oil LS.  Diluting the paste is driving me nuts.  I'm assuming diluting 1:1 will bring MY LS to base line that is roughly the starting point of Dr Bronners Castile soaps.  I


Hi Terri, I'm kinda late to the game, but here's the dilution rates I use:
100% coconut oil: 40% soap to 60% dilution water.
100% olive oil: 15-20% soap to 85-80% dilution water. NOTE: This results in very thin soap with excellent lather. Thicken with salt (brine) solution.

Dr Bronner's Ingredients: _Water, Saponified Organic Coconut & Organic Olive Oils (W Retained Glycerin), Organic Hemp Oil, Organic Jojoba Oil, Citric Acid, Vitamin E._

My Dr. Bronner's dupe is 50% coconut oil plus 50% combo of 39% olive, 10% hemp, 1% jojoba. I make a 20% solution of citric acid and add it at a rate of 0.06% to the diluted soap after the 2-week sequester. I squirt 1-2 Vitamin E capsules (1000 IU) PPO and 1/2 tsp ROE (antioxidant) PPO into the warmed oils before adding the lye solution. Dilution rate: 40% soap to 60% dilution water. This results in a viscosity slightly thinner than Dr. Bronner's but close enough for me! 

For foaming soap: I find 1 part soap to 3 parts water is just right.

There's good info on pH, dilution rates, and thickening here:
http://alaiynab.blogspot.com/search/label/tutorial

FYI (So as not to be confused): The terms "castile", meaning 100% olive oil soap and "bastile", meaning 70% olive oil soap plus 30% other vegie oils, exist within the soapmaking community only. In the commercial world, "castile" is any soap made with all vegetable oils, i.e., no animal fats. Examples: Dr Bronner's Castile Soap and Kirks Coco Castile (all coconut oil) among others.


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