# Have a hard time getting paste to break down



## candicec003 (Sep 18, 2017)

Hi all  I've made liquid soap a handful of time with ok results. One recipe in particular i've had turn out quite well and its wonderful to use. The one constant with this particular recipe is that, after i've made the soap paste and add the water for dilution, let it sit over night, the paste is never fully dissolved. In fact its only about half dissolved. So its like a 2-3 day process because i have to heat it back up again and let it sit for another day, and usually after this second heating up, there's still a thick skin left on top. I have herd that recipes high in olive oil do take quite a bit of water for dilution but is it unrealistic to make a recipe with a high content of olive oil and wake up with a nice smooth liquid soap?? I've tried this recipe with 1x, 1.5x and 2x the weight of paste in distilled water but always seem to be left with a good amount of undissolved paste. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Ill list my recipe below

9oz Olive oil
1.5oz Castor oil
1.5oz Coconut oil

2.5oz KOH
7.5oz distilled water

Takes approx 4 hours to reach cooked, translucent paste.


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## toxikon (Sep 18, 2017)

I've only made liquid soap once, but dilution went really smoothly for me actually.

I used IrishLass's method and put some paste into a wide-mouthed mason jar with enough room for lots of water. I used about 1 part paste to .60 part distilled water (so it'd be like 100g paste and 60g water). Sealed the jar, shook it up, and put it in a simmering pot of water.

I checked it after half an hour and gave it a poke with a fork to break it up, shake again, then place back in the pot.

Another 15 minutes later, I stuck my stickblender into the jar and pulsed a few times until the paste was completely dissolved. Then back in the simmering pot - now off the heat - for another few hours to allow the soap to become clear.

It ended up being the perfect consistency, thick like honey and clear. The foamy top disappeared after a few days.


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## candicec003 (Sep 18, 2017)

I use the crock pot method


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## CTAnton (Sep 18, 2017)

Sounds to me like you couldn't go too wrong with gently warming it in a double boiler and stick blending to break up the remaining clumps...


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## BrewerGeorge (Sep 18, 2017)

Are you using glycerin?


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## candicec003 (Sep 18, 2017)

No Im not


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## HowieRoll (Sep 18, 2017)

I'm_ super_ lazy when it comes to dilution, and in the past have put paste (that is cold from being stored in the fridge) into a container, put water on top of it, and let it sit at room temp on the counter.  It would usually take a couple days to dilute.

Then the other day I went to dilute more paste and as an experiment, I put the paste into the microwave for 30 seconds first (without water), then heated up the distilled water separately in the microwave, poured it over the paste, and wrapped it all up in a couple of towels.  Before I went to bed I stirred it around and stabbed at it with a fork, then covered it up again.  By morning it was mostly diluted.  I say mostly because it needed a small splash of water to finish the job.  It was the fastest lazy-way dilution I've had.

FYI, the recipe has 50% OO, 20% CO, 15% Almond Oil, and 15% Castor.


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## Susie (Sep 18, 2017)

You may have over cooked your paste.  Four hours is a really long time to cook soap, and over cooking leads to excessively hard/dry paste that is the dickens to dilute.  You need not cook at all.

However, I am going to suggest you use the crock pot method to dilute this batch of paste.  Just keep it on low and add water a little at the time, and stick blend when you get down to the last two small lumps.  If you get a skin, add a little more water.


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## Zany_in_CO (Sep 18, 2017)

candicec003 said:


> ...after this second heating up, there's still a *thick skin* left on top. ...I've tried this recipe with 1x, 1.5x and 2x the weight of paste in distilled water but always seem to be left with a good amount of undissolved paste.



The "thick skin" is an indication that there's not enough water to dilute the paste.

As a general rule of thumb:
LS paste with high % of coconut oil: 40% paste to 60% dilution water
LS paste with high % of olive oil: 15% paste to 85%% dilution water
All other oils/fats/combos fall somewhere in between.

15% : 85% for 100% olive oil results in thin LS but you will be amazed at how well it lathers.

With 75% olive oil in your recipe, I would try 20% paste /80% water. If it lathers well, but it's too thin, it can be thickened with salt i.e. brine solution. Here's a link to read about diluting castile paste:

https://www.brambleberry.com/Castile-Liquid-Soap-Paste-P4846.aspx

HTH


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## candicec003 (Sep 19, 2017)

Susie said:


> You may have over cooked your paste.  Four hours is a really long time to cook soap, and over cooking leads to excessively hard/dry paste that is the dickens to dilute.  You need not cook at all.
> 
> However, I am going to suggest you use the crock pot method to dilute this batch of paste.  Just keep it on low and add water a little at the time, and stick blend when you get down to the last two small lumps.  If you get a skin, add a little more water.



I've been wondering about over cooking the paste, and if you can do that and what the repercussions are. Maybe i am over cooking it, in fact i think i may be. Sometimes i get very dark spots in the paste, the little bits on the sides accumulate and look burned. But honestly that's how long it takes to look fully translucent. Next time ill test the paste sooner. I've also been wondering about stick blending liquid soap after the dilution stage. Once i tried that and the end result was alot of bubbles, and the soap ended up separating in the end.


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## toxikon (Sep 19, 2017)

candicec003 said:


> I've been wondering about over cooking the paste, and if you can do that and what the repercussions are. Maybe i am over cooking it, in fact i think i may be. Sometimes i get very dark spots in the paste, the little bits on the sides accumulate and look burned. But honestly that's how long it takes to look fully translucent. Next time ill test the paste sooner. I've also been wondering about stick blending liquid soap after the dilution stage. Once i tried that and the end result was alot of bubbles, and the soap ended up separating in the end.



Check out IrishLass's liquid soapmaking technique, it's incredibly easy with no cooking required.

Post #8 on this thread: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46114

For my own personal reference, I summarized and simplified IL's steps as well:



> *IL's Liquid Soap*
> 
> (Use SummerbeeMeadow's Advanced Liquid Soap Calculator: http://summerbeemeadow.com/content/advanced-calculator-solid-cream-or-liquid-soaps)
> 
> ...


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## shunt2011 (Sep 19, 2017)

You seemed to be having the same issue back in May when you posted regarding overcooked paste.  You have cut down your cook time but are more than likely still cooking it too long hence causing dilution issues.   I did the same in the beginning.  I've learned you don't need to cook the dickens out of it.


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## Susie (Sep 19, 2017)

shunt2011 said:


> You seemed to be having the same issue back in May when you posted regarding overcooked paste.  You have cut down your cook time but are more than likely still cooking it too long hence causing dilution issues.   I did the same in the beginning.  I've learned you don't need to cook the dickens out of it.



^^^^What Shari said!

Again, it need not be cooked at all.  I have successfully made lots of different recipes of liquid soap without cooking any of it.  It only takes stirring or stickblending to emulsion, then you can put a lid on it and walk away.  Truly.

Some recipes may take up to 4 hours (off heat) to gel completely, depending on room temperature and oils used.  But you are not going to over cook soap if you don't cook it.  Why not try it and let us know?


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