# Is this true?



## lillybella (Jan 18, 2015)

Is this true?

"Once trace is reached you can pour the soap into a mold. Allow the soap to sit undisturbed for 12-24 hours. After the soap has been allowed to sit for up to 24 hours, you can unmold the soap and cut it. Arrange the cut bars of soap in an area where there is good air flow but where they will not be in the way. I like to put them on a sheet of cardboard. You are now ready for the curing process. The curing process is just allow the soap to dry out, giving you a nice hard bar. _*You can use your soap immediately after cutting but it will not last as long as a fully cured bar.*_"

When is the soap safe to touch so I don't get burned?


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## snappyllama (Jan 18, 2015)

Your soap is safe when saponification is complete (e.g. all lye present is converted into soap). The best way to test this is with a zap test. I tend to cut and test at 24 hours though some folks wait for 48 to test. Once it passes the test, it is perfectly safe to touch and use. 

However, you still want to cure it: the soap changes during cure. I see this when I try out my scraps each week. They come harder; they lather better; they feel more gentle; they hold up to being used better.


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## Dorymae (Jan 18, 2015)

Stick your tongue on the bar, if you get zapped don't use it. If you don't it is safe to use but it will have inferior lather and may still be harsher than after cure. Don't judge a soap until after cure, but yes you can use it if you have to. A bar of uncured soap lasts me a few days. After cure it will last about 3 weeks.


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## lillybella (Jan 18, 2015)

Thanks Snappy 

So the statement above is true?

Thanks Dorymae :grin:


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## SpringLily16 (Jan 18, 2015)

lillybella said:


> Is this true?
> 
> "Once trace is reached you can pour the soap into a mold. Allow the soap to sit undisturbed for 12-24 hours. After the soap has been allowed to sit for up to 24 hours, you can unmold the soap and cut it. Arrange the cut bars of soap in an area where there is good air flow but where they will not be in the way. I like to put them on a sheet of cardboard. You are now ready for the curing process. The curing process is just allow the soap to dry out, giving you a nice hard bar. _*You can use your soap immediately after cutting but it will not last as long as a fully cured bar.*_"
> 
> When is the soap safe to touch so I don't get burned?



 I have only made Hot Process soap.......  OK , I did a search and discovered that soap is safe to use 24 - 48 hours after making, BUT needs several weeks to cure to get harder and perform as a soap should. Wow...maybe I should make me some CP soap!


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## Susie (Jan 18, 2015)

They left out one important phrase... "*If the soap does not zap, then*...you can use your soap immediately..."

The one determination of safe/not safe is zap.  If it zaps, it is not safe.  If it doesn't, it is.  Period. 

Now, I would not want to judge or use a soap that has not had a proper cure.  It will not be good.  It will clean, but will not give good lather or much conditioning.


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## snappyllama (Jan 18, 2015)

lillybella said:


> Thanks Snappy
> 
> So the statement above is true?



Yup, it's true but not totally complete as the other folks said.  If you're in a pinch, you can use it but know what it's not nearly as good as it will be, and you won't have it around very long.


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## lillybella (Jan 18, 2015)

Thank you,
I'm just afraid of the lye & want to make sure when what is safe!

What about adding water to the soapy dishes that were used?

Plastic is safe with lye?

Are latex gloves enough?

You must be able to tell, I'm getting ready!


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## Dorymae (Jan 18, 2015)

Plastic is fine. Latex gloves are fine. If you leave the dishes till the next day it will be easier. You can then scrape off the bulk of the soap- if you want make a big soap ball with it. That way you don't have a huge amount of soap going down your drain. 

One note: never ever use glass to mix your lye. Lye can weaken glass and someday it can shatter on you. ( not something you want to happen with a pitcher of lye. )


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## lillybella (Jan 18, 2015)

Do I washing  or ipe out the lye pitcher after I mix the lye?

Is it best to add everything into the oils except the lye solution?

How do you get the temperature to come down?


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## Earthen_Step (Jan 18, 2015)

My soap is mild enough to use when I cut it.  I have used a sliver for fun  -- it sure melts away quickly though.


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## Dorymae (Jan 18, 2015)

You can fill your empty lye pitcher with water and let it sit until you are ready to wash it. (After your soap is set aside to saponify overnight) then just wash it like a regular dish.

" is it best to add everything to the oils except the lye solution. "

Not sure what you are asking. I mix the lye with the oil then add color and fragrance at light trace normally. 

As for temperature, you can fill your sink with ice water and set your lye pitcher in it to bring the temperature down. You could put it in the fridge or freezer as well if you have the room and are sure no one will be going in there. Just don't forget if you put it in the freezer!


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## lillybella (Jan 18, 2015)

Dorymae, thank you so much!
I know these are pretty basic questions, but not for me!

Can I mix the lye up a day ahead of time in a plastic picture? Can I keep the top on the pitcher or will it explode?


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## xraygrl (Jan 18, 2015)

You can mix the lye ahead of time, but be aware that some of the water may have evaporated from it. Know the weight of your container, and weigh the lye solution right after mixing. Weigh the container the next day,  then you can determine how much water will have evaporated so you can add the water back in. If you are using a weaker (read more water) lye solution, it may not even be necessary. Also you can cover the lye solution it won't blow up. :smile:


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## Earthen_Step (Jan 18, 2015)

lillybella said:


> Do I washing  or ipe out the lye pitcher after I mix the lye?
> 
> Is it best to add everything into the oils except the lye solution?
> 
> How do you get the temperature to come down?



I mix my lye water the same time as I get my oils ready.  I'll slowly heat up and melt all my oils/butters then set it aside.  By the time my oil is cooled down my lye is ready.  I usually mix all my stuff early morning, then make my soap after dinner in the late evening.

*I add most of my additives at light trace after the lye and oils are mixed.


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## lillybella (Jan 18, 2015)

Thank you xraygrl 
I'm becoming an expert!
I just have to do it now!


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## lillybella (Jan 18, 2015)

Earthen, this sounds like a good way!
is the lye still hot enough to burn you by nighttime or is it safer by then?


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## Earthen_Step (Jan 18, 2015)

lillybella said:


> Earthen, this sounds like a good way!
> is the lye still hot enough to burn you by nighttime or is it safer by then?



It's about room temp by that time.  This is around 500g of lye mixed with 35-38% water.

*in a plastic pitcher

**If you were doing very large batches it might still be hot by then.  I know when I do micro test batches it's cool much quicker than the batches using around 500g.


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## lillybella (Jan 18, 2015)

Thank you, Earthen 
This is so helpful!

You pour your lye water into your oils. What kind of container are you melting your oils in?

Your lye water is in a plastic container?

Do you still have to take the temp?

_It's about room temp by that time. This is around 500g of lye mixed with 35-38% water._

So the lye can't hurt you at this point?


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## Earthen_Step (Jan 18, 2015)

lillybella said:


> Thank you, Earthen
> This is so helpful!


You are very welcome, glad to help.


lillybella said:


> You pour your lye water into your oils. What kind of container are you melting your oils in?


I use a stainless steal pot, I want to use a double boiler at some point to be even more gentle to my oils.  *Right now I use a very low temp to heat them up, 2 out of 10 on my stove-top.


lillybella said:


> Your lye water is in a plastic container?


Yes my lye water is mixed in plastic #5 pitcher.  You can also use #2 and stainless steel, glass can degrade and potentially break in time.


lillybella said:


> Do you still have to take the temp?


I stopped taking temps about a year ago.  I have mixed my lye + oils while it's still warm to the touch or room temp and I have never had issues.


lillybella said:


> _It's about room temp by that time. This is around 500g of lye mixed with 35-38% water._
> 
> So the lye can't hurt you at this point?


The lye is still caustic and can burn you, it can hurt you.  If it's hot or cold it still retains it's caustic attributes.  Use gloves and goggles while dealing with lye and rise with a lot of cold water if any gets on your skin.


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## new12soap (Jan 18, 2015)

When you mix or store your lye make sure you are using heat and chemical resistant plastic. Heavy HDPE or PP (code 2 or 5 on the bottom).

YES THE LYE CAN HURT YOU!!!

A heat burn and a chemical burn both hurt like the devil at the very least and can be very serious at worst. Even at room temperature the lye concentrations used for soap must be handled VERY carefully. ALWAYS wear eye protection, gloves, long sleeves, and shoes when soaping (and no, pants are not optional either!), you want your skin protected from splashes. I buy inexpensive chemical resistant gloves at the hardware store. If you do get a splash rinse immediately with cold running water.

Lye can be handled safely, don't be afraid of it, but understand it and respect it. 

Yes, soap can be used as soon as saponification is complete, as others have said the best way to test it is the zap test, but it takes anywhere from 24 hours up to a week. It depends on your recipe, temperature, gel, a lot of things. Even though it is safe I have always found any recipe to be very harsh when used right away. Cure is NOT just about water evaporating.

Take a deep breath and make some soap!


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## Dorymae (Jan 18, 2015)

lillybella said:


> Thank you, Earthen
> 
> So the lye can't hurt you at this point?



Lye can still hurt you. Lye is an extreme base, like acid is an extreme acid. Hot acid is very dangerous, but cold acid can be just as dangerous. 

If you do splash lye on you wash it quickly with running water. Just water and be sure it is all rinsed away. 

Always wear gloves and eye protection when making soap. After 24 hours, after the soap has hardened you can handle the soap without gloves, but be sure to wash your hands well afterward. Handling small amounts this way won't hurt you, however if you handle several loaves you will find your hands may get red, dry and sore if you don't wash them or wear gloves.


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## lillybella (Jan 18, 2015)

ok so after 24 hours the lye can't hurt you?

Can you tell I'm hung up on this? :grin:

Thank you SO MUCH Earthen & New :clap:


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## Seawolfe (Jan 18, 2015)

Freshly mixed lye can burn you with temperature and chemically, pre-mixed (master batched) lye can still burn you chemically. Just wear gloves and sleeves and goggles around it, and just let the tap slowly run water into the containers after you pour the lye into the water or soap. All lye containers or drops can be made safe with simple dilution.

While you can use soap safely right after it stops zapping (usually after it hardens nicely and you've cut it - 24-72 hours), it is much much much better after 4-8 weeks. Go ahead and test this for yourself. Have you ever made beer or wine? While you CAN drink it right after bottling, nobody recommends that. Better to let it rest a while and it becomes much better.


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## Earthen_Step (Jan 18, 2015)

lillybella said:


> ok so after 24 hours the lye can't hurt you?
> 
> Can you tell I'm hung up on this? :grin:
> 
> Thank you SO MUCH Earthen & New :clap:



The original quote you had is talking about after mixing the lye with oil.  While you mix and by the time you get to full trace, from what I have read you are above 90% done with the chemical process.  After that happens it continues the next 12-24 hours and your soap is now soap.  After all of that and you are ready to cut, it is safe to touch.  It's still not the most gentle mild soap in the world but it shouldn't hurt you  -- as long as you are not lye heavy.  If you use a calculator and have an access of oils with a superfat % you should be good to go.  I would not go below 3% superfat, especially if you have a cheaper scale.  I go 5% or higher with all my soaps and cure for 30+ days, usually 60+.

Here is the calculator I use, and many others here.
http://soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp


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## Dorymae (Jan 18, 2015)

lillybella said:


> ok so after 24 hours the lye can't hurt you?
> 
> Can you tell I'm hung up on this? :grin:
> 
> Thank you SO MUCH Earthen & New :clap:



It is okay to clarify, after 24 hours of being mixed with the proper amount of oil the lye can't hurt you. To be sure it is totally safe, after 24 hours zap test by putting your tongue on the soap. (Yes really) if you get a zap, like a mild shock- but a shock! Then the soap is not ready and you should wear gloves to handle it. If it just tastes like soap or there is a tingle then you are good to go. Zap is unmistakeable, it is not a tingle and although it doesn't hurt it is uncomfortable and immediate.


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## IrishLass (Jan 18, 2015)

lillibella said:
			
		

> Is this true?
> The curing process is just allow the soap to dry out, giving you a nice hard bar.


 
As the others have said, this is only partially true. While evaporation is taking place to make the bar harder and longer-lasting, residual chemical reactions are still going on inside the matrix of the soap post-saponification/post-zap. These micro-reactions help to improve the soap's lathering abilities, and also help to drop the pH a little and mellow things out so that the soap becomes gentler over time (as bubbly and gentle as the parameters of your particular formula will allow). 

I kind of liken the soap curing process to the ripening of the oranges on the trees in my back yard. They're perfectly edible enough to pluck and eat in late December, but if I hold my horses and wait until January/February to start picking them, they are incredibly much sweeter and juicier, and much more delightful to eat.

Needless to say, I wait until January/February to start using my oranges....and by the same token, I wait a good 4 to 6 weeks before using my soap. I've found that my 1 week old soap can't hold a candle to my 4-6 week old soap.

As I often say- one can use their soap as soon as it doesn't zap, but since it's so much better in a few week's time, why would one want to?



			
				lillybella said:
			
		

> Do I wash or wipe out the lye pitcher after I mix the lye?


 
I just rinse mine out well with tap water. I don't even use soap on it since lye solution is a type of cleanser in its own right.



			
				lillybella said:
			
		

> Can I mix the lye up a day ahead of time in a plastic picture? Can I keep the top on the pitcher or will it explode?


 
Yes-. I do this all the time. I make up a large master-batch lye solution in a plastic pitcher made of PP#5 plastic (you can find the recycle code in the triangle on the bottom of the plastic) and cover it until it cools, then I store the cooled solution safely for months and months at a time in a tightly covered HDPE plastic container (actually, a reclaimed landry detergent bottle with a drip-proof lip).

Like xraygrl said, just remember to weigh everything, including the empty container and cover, before and after mixing the solution so that you'll know how much water has evaporated during mixing and can replace it if need be.

Be aware , though, that not all plastic is safe to use with lye. The best plastics to use are nalgene, polypropylene #5 (PP#5), and HDPE #2, though HDPE #2 is only heat resistant to 190F (which is why I only use it to store my cooled-down solution instead of mixing the solution in it).

Stainless steel is also very good.

Try to stay away from these plastics: PETE #1, or Polystyrene (PS, #6), which are not heat or alkali resistant. I used PETE #1 once and the lye solution ate away at my container and leaked out. 

Also, as the others have said, it's best to steer clear of glass. 


IrishLass


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## MarisaJensen (Jan 18, 2015)

SpringLily16 said:


> I have only made Hot Process soap.......  OK , I did a search and discovered that soap is safe to use 24 - 48 hours after making, BUT needs several weeks to cure to get harder and perform as a soap should. Wow...maybe I should make me some CP soap!



You still have to cure CP should be cured as well. Both HP and CP should be cured for a nice bar. 

Technically you can use your soap if it passes a zap test but the soap will be so much better after several weeks of cure.


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## lillybella (Jan 18, 2015)

All this valuable information & great tips - Thank you ALL so much!


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## JuneP (Jan 18, 2015)

*Question about master lye batching water amount*

Irish Lass, and others who master master lye batches. How do you handle  the problem of having to account for added water in colorants, TD, etc?

June  



IrishLass said:


> Yes-. I do this all the time. I make up a large master-batch lye solution in a plastic pitcher made of PP#5 plastic (you can find the recycle code in the triangle on the bottom of the plastic) and cover it until it cools, then I store the cooled solution safely for months and months at a time in a tightly covered HDPE plastic container (actually, a reclaimed landry detergent bottle with a drip-proof lip).
> solution in it).
> 
> 
> ...


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jan 18, 2015)

JuneP said:


> Irish Lass, and others who master master lye batches. How do you handle  the problem of having to account for added water in colorants, TD, etc?
> 
> June



Most people master batch a 50% lye solution - I don't think anyone would use a 50% solution alone in soaping, that just isn't enough water.  The extra water needed can be added in as plain water, milks, infusions, colours and so on.


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## IrishLass (Jan 18, 2015)

Ditto what the good Gent said.

Although I make a 50/50 lye solution as my master-batch, I add enough other liquid to it to dilute my solution down to anywhere between a 28% to 40% lye solution (depending on my formula) when I actually go to make my soap.

Sometimes I use some of that extra water to mix with my colorants, but mostly I've been using vegetable glycerin for that purpose as of late.

In any case, though, the amount of extra liquid needed to mix with my colorants is so miniscule in the bigger scheme of things that I don't even include it as part of my liquid calculations.

IrishLass


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## SpringLily16 (Jan 18, 2015)

MarisaJensen said:


> You still have to cure CP should be cured as well. Both HP and CP should be cured for a nice bar.
> 
> Technically you can use your soap if it passes a zap test but the soap will be so much better after several weeks of cure.



Thanks so much for the info....a person can ALWAYS learn new things every day no matter how old you get.  What a wonderful sharing forum!


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## lillybella (Jan 18, 2015)

_*50/50 lye solution as my master-batch*_

This must be advanced! 

This is the best group! Thank you all.


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