# Lying Soapmakers!



## urboogyman (Jun 9, 2019)

Hi all. I’m out of ideas.

I’m an honest soapmaker. I honestly label and advertise what’s in my soap. I never call it organic, and only call it “natural” if it’s made with essential oils, not fragrance oils. HOWEVER, I have a competitor in my own market who has grown much bigger than me by lying and cheating, calling their soaps “all natural” and even “organic” when they can't possibly be.

They even advertise on TV, radio, and Internet, that their soaps contain “only plant based ingredients” and “no dozen-letter artificial ingredients” or “unpronounceable ingredients” when it’s OBVIOUS they’re using the same Nature’s Garden fragrance oils most of us use! They even name their soaps the same names as the fragrance oils they use, like Narcissus and Ferocious Beast.

According to the MSDS, some of these oils contain _Tetramethel Acetyloctahydronaphthalenes, Methyldihydrojasmonate, _and many other unpronounceable words.

The owner has convinced his employees, and the employees have convinced their customers, that “the owner had these scents especially formulated from all essential oils.” BULL BULL BULL!

To add insult to injury, they advertise that their cold process soaps “need to be in the molds for 40 minutes, and can be used safely 48 hours later.”!! 

They advertise that their soaps are 100% plant based. They advertise 100% transparency, because "you can watch them make it and see exactly what goes in it", even though you don't know that what's in those re-labelled fragrance oil bottles is 100% synthetic chemicals not plant-based, full of chemicals nobody can pronounce.

I’ve asked the owner to stop this, and he became really hostile. I’ve tried to educate the public, and his customers don’t believe me. I’m tired of trying to sell against fake “all natural” and fake “organic” soaps. I am NOT going to start lying.

An insider in that company let it slip that they’re putting boric acid in their soaps, probably to lower the pH to make it look like it’s cured before it really is. Boric acid is an insecticide.

Have any of you encountered this problem? What did you do about it? What can I do about it?

Thanks in advance.


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## earlene (Jun 9, 2019)

I am so sorry you are facing this!

I don't know what you can do about it.  Changing other people's behavior is usually beyond my control, so I don't try unless they are hurting me.  And if that doesn't work, I leave.

However, if they are making false claims on their website you may actually have a recourse of reporting them for false advertising to the FDA.  Things with our national agency websites have changed so much lately, that I don't know if I could find the method for reporting to the FDA for misbranding soap anymore, though.

Just as an aside, when I was young, my dad occasionally washed out his eyes with Boric Acid opthalmic solution.


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## Lin19687 (Jun 9, 2019)

I hate people like this.  I always just try to tell people if they ask about Organic.
If you see a soap that says Organic, ask them for the Organic Certificate.  You can not have one with Soap.
i would also tell the FM manager about the False advertising.  Explain that when it gets out it will look VERY BAD on HIM !

At a FM, free and small, I called out a seller of food as it was neither Labeled or Weight on it.
I finally emailed the BOH from my spam email I have to call it out.  They will be out to check this year when it starts.  hope to see a change as this woman is just a Nasty person anyway............ not to mention her stuff is not very good at all.


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## shunt2011 (Jun 9, 2019)

I see this all the time at my shows. I’ve learned to just ignore them and educate my customers.  Telling the people that run the shows doesn’t generally do anything.   Can’t really change it.


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## Nanette (Jun 9, 2019)

That is so sad, really! I doubt if you can do anything tho, but be true to yourself. If the people who run the market dont care....just do your own thing. People will catch on eventually.


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## lsg (Jun 10, 2019)

While it is infuriating, you are not the quality control police for other people.  That is the job of the FDA.  It sounds like to me that you need a vacation from the stress of competing with the "giants."  Big companies know what they can get away with and how to get around the rules.  That doesn't make it right; but as far as talking to the owner, continually butting your head against a stone wall will only give you a headache.


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## urboogyman (Jun 10, 2019)

Wow this is great support, and I feel better already knowing I’m not the only one. 

The company in question is fully commercial, brick-and-mortar retail with (not kidding) 20 stores, growing at a rate of 8 stores a year based on these lies, and doesn’t do shows or markets. There seems to be literally million$ involved, and nobody can figure out where the money is coming from! You all know there’s just not THAT much money in this biz unless you’re Lush.

They’ve had local business groups and charities to give them big awards. He has everyone fooled. No soapmakers around here understand HOW it’s happening, or why he’s still in business. Great PR and social marketing can sell salt to snails, I guess.

My growing business is suffering, as is that of my other local soapy friends. The guy is SUPER aggressive, and has a sleezy lawyer who goes after anyone who crosses him. I’m probably at risk posting here. Good thing I have nothing to lose. Anyway, if he sues me at least I can put all this info in the public (and press) domain through Discovery. That should do it.

I’ll tell you, when the top finally pops off this thing, it’s gonna be quite a show!


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## MGM (Jun 10, 2019)

Hmm, if I've found the right place (emphasis on nudity ), they don't seem to make any outrageous claims that I can see. They say their FO are phthalate and paraben free, but I don't see any claims of organic. That's just their website, mind you. No idea what they say IRL. To be honest, it seems pretty tame, especially compared to something like Goop, which had products pulled by Health Canada on its opening day ;-)


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## urboogyman (Jun 10, 2019)

Hey MGM. They're careful not to publish blatant lies. It's done IRL. I've walked into several stores myself and they've told me right to my face, using almost the same phrasing at different stores, like it's scripted. Virtually 100% of their customers confirm this when they show up at my stalls in the markets and shows. They appear clean unless you pull back the curtain just a bit.

[edited] Most of the ridiculous claims that are in print are in feature articles in local papers and on websites masquerading as news sources, probably written by their PR firm. I can find many articles claiming "organic" and "all natural" and the other lies with a google search. Stupid local writers and reporters just believe and print whatever they're told without fact-checking, so I don't know how much liability they have for this.

Also I noticed their website is SEO'd for "all natural" and "organic".


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## MGM (Jun 10, 2019)

:-( that must be so frustrating! Maybe they'll get busted for money-laundering....it's apparently more common than you think!


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## TAS (Jun 11, 2019)

MGM, when I first started reading this thread I had the exact same thought - money laundering. 

urboogyman, really sorry for what you are going through. Keep your head held high, continue to do your outstanding work and take pride in your ethics. I don't believe you are going to change this man's business practice, we can only change ourselves. Wishing you a strong center and happy bubbles.


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## urboogyman (Jun 11, 2019)

I'm not going to mention a name. There are several soap companies with multiple shops where I have a footprint - Hot Springs, AR, North Florida, Texas, and other places. I'm sure I've already attracted attention, but like I said, Discovery would be a real problem for them. HEY and thanks for all the support here. I'm probably not going to do anything unless provoked. I'll just keep telling the truth, making good soap, and hoping the bad guys go away. I guess I just needed to get it off my chest. Thanks for listening.


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## dixiedragon (Jun 11, 2019)

Might be worthwhile to create a throwaway email address and post your question on Reddit r/legaladvice. It sounds like the company is HQed in your area? Might be worthwhile to see if you can stir  up interest in the media, etc. 

I'm nosy - can you PM me the name?


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## urboogyman (Jun 11, 2019)

Hey dixiedragon. Nah, I'm gonna leave it alone unless they come at me, and then I'll pull out all the stops. Like I said, I have nothing to lose. I've collected enough dirt on them to sink them if I have to, including a certified lab analysis of their products proving what I'm saying. I'm just gonna let this drop so nobody gets hurt. I'd rather make soap.

In fact, to keep from stirring things up in here, I'm gonna try to delete this thread. It seems out of place in this happy place.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 11, 2019)

_"...I'm not going to mention a name...."
_
<..._sigh_...> If you're going to diss someone at length in a public forum of perfect strangers, you should have the cohones to be honest about whom you're talking. From the near-direct quotes you provide in your original post, it's not hard to figure out your little "secret." It's Buff City Soap -- https://www.buffcitysoap.com/

I am finding your words to be increasingly disturbing and most definitely unprofessional. No one here can provide corroboration of your story, the other party is not able to present their side of the story, and you're sounding more paranoid and threatening than you sound rational and mature. 

I'm not sure if you intend this thread to be a kangaroo court or a troll, but whichever it is, I don't care for it.


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## shunt2011 (Jun 11, 2019)

And to be honest, I see nothing wrong with anything listed on their site.  Their site seem upfront.  I too think you have a ulterior motive for the company and your post.   There are many out there like them. Either jump in and claim your own share or exit the situation.   I personally don’t have time to worry about others.  Kinda seems like a witch hunt and nothing better to do than having their products analyzed. The cost alone you would be better off putting it and your energy into your own business.


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## urboogyman (Jun 11, 2019)

DeeAnna! Bad mood today?

I seem to have offended you. It’s fortunate that my self worth isn’t the least bit determined by you, otherwise I’d be tempted to feel sorry for being here. Is that what you want? I’m not going to stoop to analyzing your motives for your posts, and I’m not going to claim to know enough about you or your situation to counter-attack you personally in return. 

Here’s why I didn’t name the company. 

To avoid charges of defamation I didn’t name the company because they are extremely litigious, and would no doubt sue me. So thanks for that, deeanna. Thanks. In the future, try not to assume you know everything. You know nothing about this. 

Right. OK now I’ll be kicked off the forum. Admins, will you please delete this thread to try and avoid my being further abused in here and in court? I have time for supporters. I have no time for haters.

Thanks everyone who supported me. You guys helped a lot. Goodbye and good soaping!

deeanna, you can’t see very well from that ivory tower, can you? <..._sigh_...>


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## urboogyman (Jun 11, 2019)

Shunt2011, Please delete this thread, for your forum’s sake. It doesn’t belong in this happy place. I got some great advice until tonight, when it devolved into some kind of s storm. This thread doesn’t belong here and neither do I.


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## lsg (Jun 11, 2019)

I am locking this thread.  It is not the policy of this forum to allow slanderous or libelous remarks about businesses or individuals.  Please read the forum rules.


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