# Coconut oil free Shampoo



## melinda48 (Oct 13, 2019)

I was at a show yesterday and had a customer who is allergic to coconut oil ask if there are any shampoo products without put coconut oil. I told her that I would ask here as I do not make other than cp soap and lotion bars.

 So, my question is: can anyone recommend coconut oil-free shampooing products?

Many thanks!
M


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## Kathymzr (Oct 13, 2019)

If you look on SoapCalc there are a few oils that are cleansing, besides Coconut Oil. Babassu oil is one. Some are kind of exotic and expensive but why not try? Spend some time with SoapCalc swapping out oil combinations till you find a combination of acids that mimic coconut oil soap. You don’t need to buy anything to play with SoapCalc. Try a combination of Murumuru, Babassu, Kokum, High-Oleic Safflower, etc, and you will really learn the properties of each oil too!


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## Zany_in_CO (Oct 13, 2019)

This makes an elegant feeling, coconut-free, shampoo bar,  particularly nice for mature hair. It made my dear hubby's white hair shine with no trace of yellow (ugh):

14% PKO (Palm Kernal Oil)
23.5% Olive Oil
62.5 % Palm or Lard

33% lye concentration
2-3% superfat


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## melinda48 (Oct 13, 2019)

Kathymzr said:


> If you look on SoapCalc there are a few oils that are cleansing, besides Coconut Oil. Babassu oil is one. Some are kind of exotic and expensive but why not try? Spend some time with SoapCalc swapping out oil combinations till you find a combination of acids that mimic coconut oil soap. You don’t need to buy anything to play with SoapCalc. Try a combination of Murumuru, Babassu, Kokum, High-Oleic Safflower, etc, and you will really learn the properties of each oil too!


Thank you!



Zany_in_CO said:


> This makes an elegant feeling, coconut-free, shampoo bar,  particularly nice for mature hair. It made my dear hubby's white hair shine with no trace of yellow (ugh):
> 
> 14% PKO (Palm Kernal Oil)
> 23.5% Olive Oil
> ...


I will, for sure, try this. I happen to have “mature hair” myself. Look forward to trying this.


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## Dahila (Oct 13, 2019)

Soap is not shampoo, btw, and none of my shampoos contain coconut oil.  Liquid or syndets


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## cmzaha (Oct 13, 2019)

BTW I would never recommend a "Soap" bar to someone for shampoo. Sorry, Zany I know you love them but for someone with damaged hair like mine it would be disastrous and they would not know it. Mine damage is from stress this last year not soap usage on my hair since I never never use soap on my hair. It is sad because my hair has always been in beautiful condition until this mess with my mom, now one would think I am under chemo treatments.  That is another reason to never recommend soap to a customer as shampoo you never know health or treatment they may be going through.


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## Dahila (Oct 14, 2019)

my grandchild has a long blond and shiny hair,  She uses my syndets but one day she mixed the one for the body with probably high ph,  with the shampoo,  Immiediately her hair lost shine.  I could not believe it,  How dull it looked,  the one she used  is probably 9 ph.  Her hair is like Liquid gold but not after using high ph
I wish Zany would show us how shiny and helthy her hair is.  Using soap on it


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## shunt2011 (Oct 14, 2019)

It ruined my hair.  Wish I had a picture of how much hair had to be cut off because of using CP soap on it.  I don't recommend it to anyone.   Not worth it to find out if it will work or not.


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## Dahila (Oct 14, 2019)

shunt2011 said:


> It ruined my hair.  Wish I had a picture of how much hair had to be cut off because of using CP soap on it.  I don't recommend it to anyone.   Not worth it to find out if it will work or not.


So had I  Shunt


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## Zany_in_CO (Oct 20, 2019)

Dahila said:


> I wish Zany would show us how shiny and helthy her hair is.  Using soap on it








Your wish is my command... I'm new to using a cell phone but I managed to get this shot this AM, just for you, Dahila!  If you know how to zoom in, you can see a few silver threads amongst the brown.


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## Dawni (Oct 20, 2019)

I'm envious of that color @Zany_in_CO, even with the silver 

I think.. Some people can use soap on their bodies n some can't so it's safe to say the same is the case for lye based shampoo? I know it's been discussed tons, but just saying.....


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## cmzaha (Oct 20, 2019)

Not trying to play Devil's Advocate here, but is this your natural color Zany? I ask because hair colorants are loaded with conditioners today and do leave the hair shiny. I comment to my mom every time I color her hair how nice the new colors are today. I am not talking 3 step funky colors I am talking natural colors such as browns. If your hair is naturally this color you are very very lucky at our ages. Just the cosmetologist in me coming to the surface.


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## Millie (Oct 20, 2019)

Wow @Zany_in_CO you look about 30 years younger than you lead us to believe. Good genes or alter ego?


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## Zany_in_CO (Oct 20, 2019)

Dawni said:


> I'm envious of that color @Zany_in_CO, even with the silver


It must have been the lighting in the bathroom. My hair color is more of a mousey brown... according to my hairbrush! 


cmzaha said:


> Not trying to play Devil's Advocate here, but is this your natural color Zany?


LOL Carolyn, you sound just like my SL in Arizona, a former hairdresser. She raised an eyebrow when I told her it's my natural color when I last saw her. Also, see my reply to Dawni above. I shampooed with one of my liquid shampoos; rinsed with 1-2 Tbls ACV in 16 oz water -- using increasingly cool water until it was as cold as I could stand it (think "Viking); a couple of drops of oil infused with lavender, rosemary, and tea tree. No dye; no product whatsoever. 


Millie said:


> Wow @Zany_in_CO you look about 30 years younger than you lead us to believe. Good genes or alter ego?


LOL Thank you! I was too chicken to post the face shot, Millie.    I have "battle scars" that reveal every one of my 76 years.  To answer your question: Good genes (99.6% Eastern European, i.e. Polish), 15 years of homemade bath and body products, a fairly healthy diet and lifestyle.


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## cmzaha (Oct 20, 2019)

You are fortunate Zany and that is Genetics.  I am aware you do ACV rinses and are one of few that the ph of soap does not bother your hair. Not all hair is the same. 

I had a customer many years ago with thick dark brown hair without a strand of gray at 80 yrs young. It was her natural hair. Sadly she had to go under chemo and we know what happened to her hair. I felt so sorry for her when she felt she was being punished for being vain about her hair, of course, I told her no way the big fella above would not do that. Her hair did come back, even a darker brown again without gray and was very curly.


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## Dahila (Oct 20, 2019)

Zany_in_CO said:


> View attachment 42120
> 
> 
> Your wish is my command... I'm new to using a cell phone but I managed to get this shot this AM, just for you, Dahila!  If you know how to zoom in, you can see a few silver threads amongst the brown.


thank you sweet heart,  I managed to take a pic of mine similar color, twice more with all due respect, but I use a lot of protein in my syndet bar,  When I show my blondie granchild after using my shampoo people just buy it  I know there is a small number of people who are ok with high ph.  Nice hair nice color ,  Zany thank you
Carolyn is right,  genetics play a huge role.  Huge
I wish I had as beautiful hair as you do Zany,  My is fine and not to much of it


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## Zany_in_CO (Oct 21, 2019)

I forgot to mention... my hair is fine and thin too.


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## Dahila (Oct 22, 2019)

no Zany it is not,  you should see mine 7 hair in 5 roads soft similar to baby hair
I think yours is beautiful,  maybe you had never seen real thin hair


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## Zany_in_CO (Oct 22, 2019)

Oh my, that's REALLY bad.  
But I think I know my own hair. I've been struggling with it all my life. I do take good care of it but it still doesn't hold a set or brush style dry. And once again, it doesn't look like that picture in real life. It's quite mousey with some gray and makes a skinny pony tail.

When I was young, even then it was hard to create volume so I would bleach and perm it. I found this old picture in an old photo album and clipped it to the fridge to shoot it, hence the "chip clip" at the top. Here's me at 29, bleached & permed:


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## Millie (Oct 22, 2019)

Wow Zany!!!


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## Dawni (Oct 22, 2019)

*whistles like my grandpa used to*

LOL

I wish I looked as good when I was 29... Hair n all haha.

I know I've said it somewhere that my hair likes syndets but my scalp doesn't, and my scalp likes lye based shampoo but my hair doesn't. I have tried both lye shampoo and syndets with and without coconut oil and the results are the same as stated above.

Testing has taken its toll on both my scalp n my hair and I'm still not entirely happy with the one I've settled for now. Of course, it could also be many other factors.. Age, nutrition, sleep, environmental changes, etc..

@melinda48 was your customer asking for commercially available products or asking you to make shampoo for her? Did she want a solid one? _I am sure there are lots of shampoos out there without coconut oil though I can't say what could be available to you/her _- - - apparently there aren't so many completely coconut free

*Edited above and to add:*
I realized I focused only on coconut oil and only now remembered that a lot of syndets use coconut derived surfactants, which could be a problem also.

I tried trusty ole Google and this brand seems to pop up often enough. I'm still reading ingredients lists but the Pine Shale one seems to be coconut free. This one is also coconut free but they're in the UK. These are labeled as hair washes and the first two are coconut free, not done reading yet.


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## Zany_in_CO (Oct 22, 2019)

Aw, those were the days, *@Millie*... so young and clueless about what lies ahead. As we all know, Life has a mind of its own. 

BTW, my brother-the-doctor and amateur portrait photographer took that candid shot unbeknownst to me while we were visiting him and his family in Honolulu in 1972. It's my favorite picture of me. Sadly, we lost Dr. Tim to a fatal heart attack a month ago at age 78. He was a good man, excellent physician -- but a terrible tease! We all miss him.



Dawni said:


> I know I've said it somewhere that my hair likes syndets but my scalp doesn't, and my scalp likes lye based shampoo but my hair doesn't.


 Have you tried using straight Polysorbate 80?

_*Fun With Polysorbate 80*_

ETA: I'm wondering if you have "black hair?" i.e. if you wanted to straighten it the hairdresser would use lye to do that. If so, I can't help you there. But there are a few places on line that discuss the problems and offer solutions for black hair, such as, of all things, using coconut oil straight as a conditioner.


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## Millie (Oct 22, 2019)

@Zany_in_CO I'm sorry for your loss. He sounds like a wonderful brother!


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## Dahila (Oct 22, 2019)

yeah you look at this pick like MM , beautiful


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## Carolynkc (Oct 10, 2020)

melinda48 said:


> I was at a show yesterday and had a customer who is allergic to coconut oil ask if there are any shampoo products without put coconut oil. I told her that I would ask here as I do not make other than cp soap and lotion bars.
> 
> So, my question is: can anyone recommend coconut oil-free shampooing products?
> 
> ...


I am allergic, too. Finding shampoo has not been possible so I have been using an olive oil hand soap. My scalp is almost itch free but my hair is not particularly pretty.


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## Dahila (Oct 12, 2020)

why would you put coconut in Shampoo???


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## Michele M. (Oct 13, 2020)

I am going to try the Palestinian soap that is 100% olive oil (in a bar) for shampooing soon as it arrives. My poor hair has been stripped by harsh soaps for years. I have not read any reviews of people using that soap for hair, but many reviews speak of how softening and conditioning it is to the skin (and helpful especially to those who suffer from eczema and certain allergies).


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## Carolynkc (Oct 13, 2020)

Dahila said:


> why would you put coconut in Shampoo???


Because it is in every shampoo and laundry detergent I've researched including natural,,, healthy... pure...etc. brands. I am washing my hair with an olive oil bar made by a friend.. my hair is not shiny or healthy looking.
Do you have a recipe I might try? Just bye the bye.. I don't do lye.


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## Carolynkc (Oct 13, 2020)

Michele M. said:


> I am going to try the Palestinian soap that is 100% olive oil (in a bar) for shampooing soon as it arrives. My poor hair has been stripped by harsh soaps for years. I have not read any reviews of people using that soap for hair, but many reviews speak of how softening and conditioning it is to the skin (and helpful especially to those who suffer from eczema and certain allergies).


I am using 100% olive oil and it's better than the itchy scalp left by shampoo with coconut under one of its many names. My hair doesn't look great.


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## earlene (Oct 13, 2020)

There are so many threads here at SMF about shampoo bars, and loads of responses from members to those threads.  The majority of responses I have read from others who used lye soap shampoos experienced extreme damage, including me.  A few, one in particular, @Zany_in_CO, have positive experiences with lye soap shampoo.  So perhaps if you search for posts on shampoo bars and read as much as you can within those threads, you may find some very  helpful information in your search.

I will include links below for 3 of the many threads, but there are many more.





__





						Shampoo Bars
					

Everything you ever wanted to know about shampoo bars but were afraid to ask:  https://www.chagrinvalleysoapandsalve.com/products/natural-hair/natural-shampoo-bars/#scalp%20nourishing%20oils  If I had it to do over again, I would try some of these bars to see what works best for my hair and go...




					www.soapmakingforum.com
				








__





						what's the difference between shampoo bars and regular bars?
					

Title says it all .. anyone know the difference besides ingredients?  How do they act differently and why?




					www.soapmakingforum.com
				








__





						shampoo bars...again
					

So I know the general consensus on board is shampoo bars are bad for hair. I had my own issues with damaged hair from using them so I know the risks.  I have a skin condition on my scalp, normally medicated shampoos will get it under control but they aren't working anymore. I'm loosing hair...




					www.soapmakingforum.com


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## DeeAnna (Oct 13, 2020)

Carolynkc said:


> ...Just bye the bye.. I don't do lye.



I'm confused. You are asking for a soap recipe but you are also saying you don't "do lye". So how do you propose to make soap from olive oil, coconut oil, or any other fat?

The only way I know of to make soap is to use lye, which is usually sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide.

I might well be missing your point, however, so would you please explain more?


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## Carolynkc (Oct 13, 2020)

earlene said:


> There are so many threads here at SMF about shampoo bars, and loads of responses from members to those threads.  The majority of responses I have read from others who used lye soap shampoos experienced extreme damage, including me.  A few, one in particular, @Zany_in_CO, have positive experiences with lye soap shampoo.  So perhaps if you search for posts on shampoo bars and read as much as you can within those threads, you may find some very  helpful information in your search.
> 
> I will include links below for 3 of the many threads, but there are many more.
> 
> ...


thank you, so much for your reply DeeAnna.


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## DeeAnna (Oct 13, 2020)

No thanks needed for me -- that is Earlene's advice you're responding to.


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## Carolynkc (Oct 13, 2020)

DeeAnna said:


> I'm confused. You are asking for a soap recipe but you are also saying you don't "do lye". So how do you propose to make soap from olive oil, coconut oil, or any other fat?
> 
> The only way I know of to make soap is to use lye, which is usually sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide.
> 
> I might well be missing your point, however, so would you please explain more?



Very new to this soap making. I do not know the basics and, as I am quite disturbed, research is not easy. There's a lot of conflicting information out there. Frankly I am afraid to use lye.


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## Carolynkc (Oct 13, 2020)

DeeAnna said:


> No thanks needed for me -- that is Earlene's advice you're responding to.


Let's say I appreciate all who answer.


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## Carolynkc (Oct 13, 2020)

Carolynkc said:


> thank you, so much for your reply DeeAnna.


Sorry, Earline, thank you...


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## Zany_in_CO (Oct 13, 2020)

Michele M. said:


> I am going to try the Palestinian soap that is 100% olive oil (in a bar) for shampooing soon as it arrives.


There is good advice about using a lye-based soap as a shampoo bar here:

Everything About Shampoo Bars


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## Dahila (Oct 15, 2020)

Carolynkc said:


> Because it is in every shampoo and laundry detergent I've researched including natural,,, healthy... pure...etc. brands. I am washing my hair with an olive oil bar made by a friend.. my hair is not shiny or healthy looking.
> Do you have a recipe I might try? Just bye the bye.. I don't do lye.


natural yes, healthy on the frying pan,  I react bad to coconut in any product.  Shampoo is not a soap


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