# Reselling without permission?



## SomethingGoodAustin (Oct 17, 2014)

I make a dog shampoo bar.  It's one of the products with which I am most pleased--I've even used on myself, because I love the smell and because it's very gentle! I sell this bar on Etsy and it does fair-to-middling well, but not great.  All of a sudden, though, I have this repeat customer who likes to purchase in large quantities. Her first order in August was for five bars, which was an order I couldn't completely fill (large for me is actually pretty small at this point). I explained this, apologized, and offered her two cured bars and three two-week-old bars. I advised her that the fresher bars needed to be cured _at least_ another two weeks and included a best by date on the labels so she would know when to use them. 

After I sent them, I realized that "best by" might be confusing--it sounds too much like an expiration date--so I contacted her again to clarify. She said that was fine and that she would "correct the labels." Hmm.

In mid-September, less than a month after I shipped her her first order, she ordered another five bars. Curious, I looked her up and found that she owns a dog grooming business. She's also a dog rescue enthusiast (I looked up her email and it came up in connection with a Dog Rescue page on Facebook--I know, I know, this sounds stalkery). OK, I thought, so maybe she has five dogs.

I contacted her again and let her know that I would again need extra time to fill this order. I also asked whether she was buying for private use or giving them as gifts. She said she just used them on her dog--her one dog--and loved them because they were so good for his skin. She was fine with waiting. Yesterday, I messaged her to let her know her bars were still curing, and to offer her some irregular bars--same formula, same batch as the ones I sold her last month, same weight, just not as pretty due to stamping issues. She wants to wait for the pretty ones because _now_ she's giving some as gifts. 

SO. Perhaps I'm just overly suspicious, but I wonder whether she's either using them in her business or possibly reselling them (why correct the labels otherwise?). And I wonder whether this could possibly cause other problems down the road for me--I don't know what those could be, but I'm pretty new at this.

Should I be concerned? Should I ask her straight up whether she's reselling and risk offending her, cut her off, attempt to cut a wholesale deal, or just gratefully assume/accept that I have a semi-reliable customer (with a really clean dog) who likes my product and wants to keep it around always? Any thoughts?


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## OliveOil2 (Oct 17, 2014)

I think that if you are selling them on Etsy, and she pays the price you have them listed for, then she can do whatever she wants with the soap. At this point you are are already selling them so you have whatever liability there may be in selling a soap.
I would just be happy that she likes your soap enough to keep ordering, and to me you have a good product. If it were me I might offer her a 'wholesale price for 10 or 15 bars. But I would never ask her about selling them.


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## DeeAnna (Oct 17, 2014)

^^^ What OO2 said. A customer, whether wholesale or retail, doesn't need your or anyone else's permission to resell something she legally owns, assuming that's what she's actually doing. On top of that, she's paying full retail price and is a loyal customer. What's not to like about a customer like that? 

I can see why this seems a little weird to a new business person, but IMO, it's not something I'd spend much time worrying about. You could decide to not sell to her if it bothers you a lot, but otherwise relax and let it go -- you can't really do much about it.


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## SomethingGoodAustin (Oct 17, 2014)

Good points. Just relaxing was the direction I was leaning toward, but I guess I was feeling a little nervous. Y'know--just cause I can't see any unusual pitfalls ahead doesn't mean they aren't there.   

Thanks!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 17, 2014)

Aye - it might seem like you are losing out on business, but in actual fact you are likely getting much more!  If she is selling them or even just giving them to her regular customers/other doggie folks, then you have gone from having a few sales to lots of sales through another channel, people that you might not have ever reached and sold to.  That is a good result and you actually want this to continue.


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## Aline (Oct 17, 2014)

And I would not offer her a wholesale price! Sounds like she is buying as many as she can sell or use in her dog grooming business already.....


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## Susie (Oct 17, 2014)

As long as she is not changing the label, she is advertising for you while paying retail price for the privilege of doing so...sounds like a win-win to me.


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## dixiedragon (Oct 17, 2014)

I'm involved in a dog rescue group, and I can tell you that dog rescue folks are NUTS for cute doggie stuff. If your labels have your contact info, you might find yourself with orders from them!


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## SomethingGoodAustin (Oct 17, 2014)

Good point!  I'm about to redo my packaging anyway--will have to make sure I include my email!


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## wetshavingproducts (Oct 17, 2014)

Retailers are force multipliers, not sales stealers. Whether she's reselling or not, just be happy to be making the sales.

Also, it's completely legal and I can't see why it would be unethical unless she claims she personally made them.


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## pamielynn (Oct 17, 2014)

Personally, this would piss me off. You have no idea if she is selling them, if she is selling them with your packaging on it or if she is selling YOUR product as HER product. Changing the label would definitely be a red flag to me. Maybe some see it as a great vehicle to get your name out there- but are you really?

I still have too much "pride of ownership" of my products - and that can become a huge problem when one wants to scale up their business, but I don't like sneaky and I definitely wouldn't want someone pushing my hard work as their own.

There's no way somebody washes one dog that many times in that time frame. I think it's hinky.


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## KatieShephard (Oct 17, 2014)

If you're concerned that she is repackaging your work and selling it as hers, then maybe you can stamp your bars?  I would imagine that isn't so easy to remove.


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## CanaDawn (Oct 17, 2014)

I agree that it's unsettling, but I also agree that if you can somehow make it clearly your soap, and she resells it, it's good business for you, indirectly.    Stamping would be a cool way to do it.


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## Aline (Oct 18, 2014)

OP says this woman has a dog grooming service so she has lots of dogs to shampoo....(but it does sound like she may sell them too).


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## CanaDawn (Oct 18, 2014)

she did say that, but the woman said she was using it on her own single dog, and was not gifting any, but was going thru a crazy number of bars if that was true....then she WAS gifting...the jumbled story makes it hard to have a lot of confidence.  I would have been fine with her saying "gosh, people love your soap.  Can we talk about a bulk order so I can stock my grooming shop?"  I"m not good with sneaky, even when the end results are the same  - I find trust to be a pretty important feature of a relationship with anyone.


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## pamielynn (Oct 19, 2014)

CanaDawn said:


> she did say that, but the woman said she was using it on her own single dog, and was not gifting any, but was going thru a crazy number of bars if that was true....then she WAS gifting...the jumbled story makes it hard to have a lot of confidence.  I would have been fine with her saying "gosh, people love your soap.  Can we talk about a bulk order so I can stock my grooming shop?"  I"m not good with sneaky, even when the end results are the same  - I find trust to be a pretty important feature of a relationship with anyone.



That is exactly what should be happening. And a contract should be signed that she is to sell it in it's original packaging OR pay for personalization or private label. In all transactions, the terms should be clearly spelled spelled out for both parties. I'd even give her a "bulk" discount, but not a wholesale price.

This is the perfect opportunity to turn her into a proper reseller of your product.


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## shunt2011 (Oct 19, 2014)

I agree with the advice others have given.  I would approach her with buying bulk and either selling it as your original product with labels or private label a contract with her.  I would also get a stamp and stamp your soaps with your logo/name.


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## DebiB (Oct 19, 2014)

DeeAnna said:


> ^^^ What OO2 said. A customer, whether wholesale or retail, doesn't need your or anyone else's permission to resell something she legally owns, assuming that's what she's actually doing. On top of that, she's paying full retail price and is a loyal customer. What's not to like about a customer like



I agree with DeeAnna. Your exclusive, hand made doggie soap could be a marketing tool she is using to set herself apart from the rest of the pack. (Oh, yes! pun.) Here's another: it's dog-eat-dog in the world of dog grooming.  There are 4 within a mile of my home. 

It sounds to me that she was being vague, not dishonest. She may have been expecting the type of reaction you shared here. Instead, would you be able to consider building a bridge? Perhaps engage in conversation with her. Ask her for a review of the product and how she used it. Send her a little gift for helping you. Maybe, you and she can build a deeper, mutually beneficial relationship. Free advertising on her website? Custom formula, just for her clients? Who knows where it could go? 

I don't sell soap, but my background is sales and marketing, so that's where my thoughts went


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## TheOneWhoSoaps (Oct 19, 2014)

I can agree with most here. 

She's buying your soap in larger amounts at full price, which is a great thing. The bad thing is, she might be selling them for double or triple your cost and making more money than you without even having the knowledge of how to make soap.

I would stamp my bars with a personalised logo if I were you, and make sure your labels have your website on them. If she is selling them for $20, and you sell them for $10, the customer is always going to buy them off you first if they can find your online store easily enough.

I wouldn't offer her any discounts unless she says that she wants to stock them in her shop, in which case you could work out a wholesale price.


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## SomethingGoodAustin (Oct 22, 2014)

Didn't mean to post and disappear.  I'm back.

CanaDawn and Pamielynn hit on the thing that is niggling at me.  It is the vagueness and the changing story that makes me uncomfortable.  While I understand that I have no control over what she does with the soap after purchase, the thought that she might be reselling and making money off of my work is deeply annoying, especially if she's not being straightforward about what she wants to do. To complicate matters slightly, she's in Canada, and I don't know whether liability/contract law is significantly different over there than over here in the States. But of course, I'm already liable just by selling the soap, so...

I like the idea of stamping my soap--I'll have to get a custom stamp made, of course. And perhaps a straightforward discussion about reselling under an agreement is the way to go, even if it means I lose her business. I'll have to think about it.  

Thanks, all for your input and ideas--they really help!


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## DeeAnna (Oct 22, 2014)

"...It is the vagueness and the changing story that makes me uncomfortable. While I understand that I have no control over what she does with the soap after purchase, the thought that she might be reselling and making money off of my work is deeply annoying, especially if she's not being straightforward about what she wants to do....."

Many of my clients never explain what they're doing with my products. Why should they? It is truly none of my business. A person who has bought and paid for a product has legal ownership of said product. It is perfectly legal and appropriate for her to do whatever she wishes with her property, including reselling, without my permission or knowledge.

Some of my clients resell at a handsome markup of my price -- and others choose to give the product away. I set my prices fairly for my business, so I am properly compensated. If I don't feel my prices are fair to me, I raise them. I am not resentful of someone who can resell my product for more, even a LOT more. More power to them being able to market my goods to a well-heeled clientele. And more power to them coming back to me for more. In the end, we are both benefiting.

I'm so very puzzled by the angst being expressed. I suspect over a decade of running a small biz dealing with all sorts of clients, big and small, retail and wholesale, has given me a broader point of view.


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## DebiB (Oct 22, 2014)

DeeAnna said:


> "...I'm so very puzzled by the angst being expressed. I suspect over a decade of running a small biz dealing with all sorts of clients, big and small, retail and wholesale, has given me a broader point of view.



So very well said, DeeAnna.  In my line of work, we call them brokers.  They are able to offer a package of services that includes my product.  They mark up the product handsomely.

They can turn to someone else, who would *happily* supply them - and grow - their sweet piece of business. They choose my company for Quality-Service-Price...the magic trifecta!


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## SomethingGoodAustin (Oct 22, 2014)

DeeAnna said:


> I'm so very puzzled by the angst being expressed. I suspect over a decade of running a small biz dealing with all sorts of clients, big and small, retail and wholesale, has given me a broader point of view.



Hmm. Seems like quite a leap from personal annoyance and caution to "angst," but perhaps we have different definitions of that term.  

At any rate, having expressed my gratitude to all who contributed their much greater  experience--as well as stating my willingness to consider multiple options that might preserve both my brand and a potentially lucrative business relationship--I'm going to duck out of this discussion and go back to my day job for now. Thanks very much for everyone's helpful advice.  I appreciate it.


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## claudep (Oct 25, 2014)

In Canada, it depends on the province.  Since it falls under civil law for contract and liability, all the province and territory withthe exception of quebec use common law which is very similar to us law.  Quebec has a civil law regime which is different.

If you look at damage, it may depend on so many factors what she does with the soap.  If she use it do clean dogs she is grooming, there is no possible liability.  

If she were to resell the soap under a new branding it could be misleading, but by doing so, she would be assuming the risk of the sale.

If she sale for a different price, what you could want is to have a final price agreement which would be the price to be sold to client.

However, if you really want to approach her about wholesale, be ready to get paid less.  Normally wholesale is for less then the retail price.

If it where me, she is giving you money for the soap which you deemed to be sufficient profit for your work.  If not, you should consider adjusting your pricing.  Even if she resale for 20x your price, the fact that she has an exclusive business and relationship with people is what is selling your soap.  I do not know how you package and if you have any branding, but it is highly likely that she would not be passing off your ware has being made by her.  She would have to submit a form to our health department, and could be liable for damages if she did that.

Ask some questions and see if you can have a more regularized delivery schedule such has monthly shipment.  Profit from this sale arrangement to be able to grow your business.  From what i get, it is around 25 bars max to date.  Not a high volume.  Take the money and purchase equipment to scale your batch size and be ready to fulfill this on an ongoing business.  Also, i would be careful not to anger a good returning client, be gentle and offer more or even a promotion to ensure she will be a recurring customer.

If i where selling soaps, i wouldn't be asking the client what they are doing with it.  Take the profit be grateful for the sale and grow into making a better website, logo, branding publicity, soap making equipment, batch size capacity etc.  If you stop like this for every order, you will be fretting in your business and not putting your energy into growing, hard to run a business like that, in other words it is a hobby that will forever remain a hobby.

Cheers


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## pamielynn (Oct 26, 2014)

DeeAnna said:


> "...It is the vagueness and the changing story that makes me uncomfortable. While I understand that I have no control over what she does with the soap after purchase, the thought that she might be reselling and making money off of my work is deeply annoying, especially if she's not being straightforward about what she wants to do....."
> 
> Many of my clients never explain what they're doing with my products. Why should they? It is truly none of my business. A person who has bought and paid for a product has legal ownership of said product. It is perfectly legal and appropriate for her to do whatever she wishes with her property, including reselling, without my permission or knowledge.
> 
> ...



I get what you are saying - I've never questioned a customer on what they intend to do with the products - I hope they are washing with them 
My concern with this particular situation is that maybe the customer is reselling as her own soap and I would simply want to know and have the opportunity to approve of it.

I think that unless you are at the point where you WANT to private label, it is upsetting to think that someone is passing off your product as their own. maybe this customer doesn't understand private label and is scared to approach the soapmaker about it, but the conversation should be opened up between them.

Or maybe she's just OCD about washing her dog.


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## claudep (Oct 31, 2014)

Did she state that she had a dog grooming company?


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