# Sunflower and Honey Soaps



## faerytech (Jul 17, 2016)

Hi everybody! My name is Maddy. (Wait, this isn't the introduction thread! Just kidding!) 
I'm currently trying to figure out how to create a batch of Sunflower Castile soap to use to make a Sunflower and Honey shampoo. (Mmm, just mix sunflower seed oil and honey to make an amazing salad dressing!) 
I'm using the soap calc for the castile soap, but to be honest, I don't quite understand it, and I'm not sure I'm doing it right. 
I'm using both Sunflower seed oil (for it's scent and properties) and coconut oil (mild scent, high cleaning power!). Although I was ready to do away with the coconut oil altogether. 
I can't seem to get the proportions right to create a "creamy" soap. Is that necessary? 
It also has very high iodine, from the sunflower oil. Is that really bad? 
What is the INS and is it bad if it's not within range? 
Would a soap with less "cleaning" properties be necessarily bad to use as a shampoo (especially if you use no poo?)
What other oils would you suggest I add in, in order to achieve the maximum hair care, while still keeping the strong scent of sunflower seeds?
What other scents would you suggest that would go along well with sunflower seeds and honey? I've been thinking of adding jasmine, since it reminds me so much of honey suckle. However, I don't have jasmine essential oil, just some jasmine tea bags. Is there any way I could add the tea leaves in for abrasion and scent, or the jasmine tea liquid at some point in the process? Or should I just wait to get some jasmine essential oil?
I also have been having problems bringing my soaps to trace (I started by hand mixing, then using a stick blender, I'm pretty certain I just need to cave and buy an immersion blender)
Do you have any idea if it's possible to add the honey into the castile soap recipe, or will I need to mix it together afterwards? (I know some soap recipes allow mixing of honey into it, so I'm curious about the shelf life.)
How can I tell how much soap the soap calc recipe is going to make, and how can I lower that amount?
Could I make milk, honey, and sunflower seed oil soap without ending up with a spoiled milk scent and maintaining the scent of the sunflower seed oil? 
Any further suggestions, tips, warnings, etc?

Also, thanks so much for reading all of this and your help!


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## cmzaha (Jul 17, 2016)

faerytech said:


> Hi everybody! My name is Maddy. (Wait, this isn't the introduction thread! Just kidding!)
> I'm currently trying to figure out how to create a batch of Sunflower Castile soap to use to make a Sunflower and Honey shampoo. (Mmm, just mix sunflower seed oil and honey to make an amazing salad dressing!)
> I'm using the soap calc for the castile soap, but to be honest, I don't quite understand it, and I'm not sure I'm doing it right.
> I'm using both Sunflower seed oil (for it's scent and properties) and coconut oil (mild scent, high cleaning power!). Although I was ready to do away with the coconut oil altogether.
> ...


Over time using "Soap" for hair is very destructive. You really need to make shampoo, which are surfactant  based if you want shampoo. Soap is NOT Shampoo... The only way to get scent in soap is to use EO's or FO's. Sorry I do not have time to answer all your questions, but someone will show up and answer. My biggest pet peeve is the thinking that soap is good for hair. Hair was my business for over 30 yrs. Be kind to your hair, it Cannot be fixed once it is severely or even moderately damaged. You can treat it but you cannot fix what is actually dead and hair is dead once it appears through the scalp, it is just very resilient.


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## RobertBarnett (Jul 17, 2016)

Bramble Berry I believe has a sunflower fragrance oil, which is lovely.

Robert


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## dixiedragon (Jul 17, 2016)

I'm a bit stumped on the scent of sunflower oil. Are you talking about sunflower cooking oil? To me that doesn't really have a scent. Or are you talking about flowers?

Scent wise, the only way to scent your soap is to use Essential Oils (EOs) or Fragrance Oils (FOs). You can get a very mild scent from honey, or from adding spices like cinnamon to your soap. This is a VERY light scent - for me, my nose has to be touching the bar to smell it. Some people can't detect scent at all. 

Even if you use 100% coconut oils, the soap WILL NOT smell coconutty.


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## faerytech (Jul 17, 2016)

Well, actually I made soap using sunflower seed oil and it had quite a strong and pleasant scent, so that is what I was talking about. I had wanted to make "shampoo" using castile soap... That is in fact what seems to come up when looking for recipes, I've never heard that it was bad for your hair. I currently use the no poo method and am pretty happy with it, but my roommate needs that lather. Of course, I only intend to use the shampoo myself about once a week or so, and he maybe twice a month. I can't smell coconut oil at all, but to me, sunflower seed oil has a VERY strong scent that carried over into the bars. I use them daily and while they might not stick to my skin, per se, I can definitely smell them when using them? I just had to go smell my soap bars to be sure... They still smell like sunflower seed oil! :O Perhaps that fades over time? I made these using hot process about a month and a half ago, so I could see them losing fragrance over time, especially since I have them laid out on my counter in a way that is not really very good.


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## cmzaha (Jul 17, 2016)

faerytech said:


> Well, actually I made soap using sunflower seed oil and it had quite a strong and pleasant scent, so that is what I was talking about. I had wanted to make "shampoo" using castile soap... That is in fact what seems to come up when looking for recipes, I've never heard that it was bad for your hair. I currently use the no poo method and am pretty happy with it, but my roommate needs that lather. Of course, I only intend to use the shampoo myself about once a week or so, and he maybe twice a month. I can't smell coconut oil at all, but to me, sunflower seed oil has a VERY strong scent that carried over into the bars. I use them daily and while they might not stick to my skin, per se, I can definitely smell them when using them? I just had to go smell my soap bars to be sure... They still smell like sunflower seed oil! :O Perhaps that fades over time? I made these using hot process about a month and a half ago, so I could see them losing fragrance over time, especially since I have them laid out on my counter in a way that is not really very good.


No matter what all the scare mongers want us to believe. Surfactants can be very gentle and are not bad for us. LYE soap is Bad for hair. When surfactant based shampoo was invented hair started to improve.


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## reflection (Jul 19, 2016)

hi faery. i have been wanting to try using shampoo bars as well but haven't yet. i have heard the trick to using them is to use an ACV rinse afterwards. this seems to be pretty necessary to close the hair shaft which the 'poo bar opens up. that's what i've read anyway but i haven't even soaped yet so feel free to take anything i say about soap making with a big ole grain of salt. anyway, if you use 'poo bars definitely use the ACV rinse. i just started using an ACV rinse with my low poo shampoo & wow, my hair is so much softer. you could even infuse the vinegar with sunfower petals.

also, i've read 'poo bars may or may not work for color-treated hair. if you stick to low cleansing oils & higher conditioning oils this would help for color-treated hair. that is what i was advised by the author of the following book. here is a sunflower shampoo bar recipe from a book i have 101 easy homemade products for your skin, health & home. 

sunflower shampoo bar from jan berry (the nerdy farm wife):

4.02 oz (114 g) sodium hydroxide
10 oz (283 g) water
8 oz (227 g) coconut oil
2 oz (57 g) shea butter
10 oz (283 g) olive oil (she infuses it with sunflower petals beforehand)
4 oz (113 g) castor oil
4 oz (113 g) sunflower oil
1 oz (28 g) argan oil
2 T. (30 ml) lemongrass essential oil (optional)

i know shea butter, olive oil & i believe sunflower oil are all hair-loving oils. jojoba too. on her blog, which i just love, she has lots of shampoo bar recipes and the second one has honey in it. since i haven't started soaping yet i can't comment on her soap recipes, although i've heard they are great, but i usually refer to her skincare recipes for tips before making up my own. fyi: i'm not connected to her in any way--i just really like her blog & now book.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jul 19, 2016)

Those saying that shampoo with lye soap is not a good idea have also used rinses afterward - they still had trouble with the hair. Now, not everyone will, but it seems that many do, to the extent that a friend asked me to look at shampoo for a hotel and I said it would have to be non-lye based or it will cause too many issues. 

Also, when looking at which oils are good for hair or skin or whathaveyou, bear in mind that the salt of those fatty acids, the soap of the oil, may not be anything like the oil. Coconut is great for skin, but sodium cocoate (the soap of coconut oil) is very drying - polar opposites. Any blogger that states "x oil is lovely topically so let's make a soap out of it to get those benefits" is not really giving useful information in many cases


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## soapygoat (Jul 19, 2016)

I've used my CP soap on my hair exactly once and did not like it at all. I was on a trip and forgot to pack my shampoo. I figured I'd just go buy some the next day, but I wanted a shower the night that I landed, so I tried to just use my soap. I'm not quite sure how to describe it, but it left my hair with an icky feeling that I did not like at all. Definitely won't be trying that again, but maybe it's just me.


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## shunt2011 (Jul 19, 2016)

I have to agree with the others on using soap for shampoo.  Maybe once in a long while won't hurt anything but I can say that it may ruin your hair in the long run.  I tried it and my hair became spongy in some areas, crunchy in others, faded my hair color and cause my hair to break.  Had to cut it off and then it took time.  Someone with really short hair (my husband) may not have a problem, but I would't recommend it if you want your hair to remain nice.

Some folk have to learn for themselves though.


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## cmzaha (Jul 19, 2016)

reflection said:


> hi faery. i have been wanting to try using shampoo bars as well but haven't yet. i have heard the trick to using them is to use an ACV rinse afterwards. this seems to be pretty necessary to close the hair shaft which the 'poo bar opens up. that's what i've read anyway but i haven't even soaped yet so feel free to take anything i say about soap making with a big ole grain of salt. anyway, if you use 'poo bars definitely use the ACV rinse. i just started using an ACV rinse with my low poo shampoo & wow, my hair is so much softer. you could even infuse the vinegar with sunfower petals.
> 
> also, i've read 'poo bars may or may not work for color-treated hair. if you stick to low cleansing oils & higher conditioning oils this would help for color-treated hair. that is what i was advised by the author of the following book. here is a sunflower shampoo bar recipe from a book i have 101 easy homemade products for your skin, health & home.
> 
> ...


A lye based soap Will fade hair color badly. But that is good for the cosmetologist if you go to a shop for your hair color!! "Shampoo Bars" are syndet bars not lye soap. Try a soap bar if you wish, but you may wish you did not use one over long term. You might luck and be one of few who has hair it does not hurt, but remember you cannot fix broken/damaged hair since it is already dead. Sorry if I have repeated myself.


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## reflection (Jul 19, 2016)

cmzaha said:


> A lye based soap Will fade hair color badly. But that is good for the cosmetologist if you go to a shop for your hair color!! "Shampoo Bars" are syndet bars not lye soap. Try a soap bar if you wish, but you may wish you did not use one over long term. You might luck and be one of few who has hair it does not hurt, but remember you cannot fix broken/damaged hair since it is already dead. Sorry if I have repeated myself.



hi carolyn. i hadn't heard of syndet bars before this forum. maybe people use the term shampoo bars for both lye bars for hair and these syndet bars? i'm not sure but i've always seen them refer to the lye bars for hair. anywho, i'll try to remember to clarify what i'm referring to so as not to cause confusion. no worries about repeating yourself. i get it that you are just trying to warn people so they don't have to chop off all their hair!


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## faerytech (Jul 25, 2016)

Wow, thanks so much to all of you for your help and information! Sorry I wasn't able to get back to you sooner, it's been a busy few weeks and my soap making has been taking a back burner. I'm still really interested in making something to wash my hair with! I have been going no poo, but like I've said, I've been looking for a solution that will appease my suds loving roommate. He works construction so he needs something strong that he can use quickly. I'm really confused now about what would be the best solution. Everyone saying that "soap" as in lye based, is bad for hair, what do you use for your hair and do you make it yourself? Or do you know where I could find information to make it? I've decently happy with my baking soda rinse, but it is starting to agitate my scalp. I have to use it more frequently than some because I live in a very hot and humid area. My skin is also very sensitive; I had been using baking soda in my homemade deodorant but it causes a rash as well. I've seen many things like egg, honey, etc. Have any of you experimented with things like this? My hair is long, straight, a bit fine, and uncolored. I take as much care of it as I can, mostly just avoiding blow "frying" and combing after the shower, hair spray, etc. His hair is thick, short, and a little coarse. He works outdoors and  washes it about once a week, so it can build up some dirt! I'm reluctant to use surfactants, mostly because I don't really know what they are or if I could make them at home. I don't like buying body products as quality can get quite expensive and isn't guaranteed. If at all possible, I'd like something I could make at home. I have a decent stock of equipment for body products, soaps, etc. The sunflower/honey shampoo was an idea I had, but I'm not totally attached to it. More important is something simple and healthy I can wash my hair with about once a week. Thanks so much, <3 Maddy.


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## reflection (Jul 25, 2016)

faery, i'm like you. i keep going back & forth and back & forth on the shampoo bar idea. i hear others rave about them all over the net after the initial adjustment so i don't know what to think. i still may try them but with caution.

anyway, here is something else that you could try that won't require a preservative but is a little bit of work to use. the recipe is just coconut milk and aloe vera (& essential oils if you want to add them). what this woman has done is to pour the mixture into ice cube trays and keeps them frozen. the thing is you have to remember to defrost one the night before using or i guess put it in a dish inside some hot water to melt it. i haven't tried it but those 2 ingredients are great so if one doesn't mind the hassle factor it might be a good option.


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## faerytech (Jul 29, 2016)

Hi guys! I actually have been experimenting with milk and honey "shampoo" (in this case it's my favorite bath additives so I just bathe in it and rinse well). It cleaned my hair, getting rid of the greasy feeling. Today my hair feels thicker but has a slightly different texture than what I'm used to. My main concern is that it will stink, so I've been going around asking people to smell my hair. So far no one has reported a bad smell. If it works out, I'm going to stick with it, because it's simple and makes my skin feel great as well. Plus it's really luxurious... I feel like Cleopatra!


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## cmzaha (Jul 29, 2016)

reflection said:


> hi carolyn. i hadn't heard of syndet bars before this forum. maybe people use the term shampoo bars for both lye bars for hair and these syndet bars? i'm not sure but i've always seen them refer to the lye bars for hair. anywho, i'll try to remember to clarify what i'm referring to so as not to cause confusion. no worries about repeating yourself. i get it that you are just trying to warn people so they don't have to chop off all their hair!


Calling lye soap a shampoo bar is not really correct. Shampoo is made with gentle surfactants not lye soap. I use and make syndet bars, Synthetic Detergent bars, but they cost more to make than buying a quality shampoo. I just like the convenience of a bar. Once in a while, because of allergy problems causing itchy scalp I will use one of my salt bars, but not regularly and try to keep it off the ends of my hair. Syndet is not soap. Soap is made with lye


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