# Venting...



## fuzz-juzz (Jun 9, 2015)

I feel we should have a section for venting. roblem:
I came across this soaping community a while ago, it's in my native language so I try to educate newbies to the best of my abilities, but I'm constantly getting shot down by oldies in the community who think they know the best.
New low was giving advice to newbies how it's OK to sell CP after 7 day cure or as soon as it stops zapping (?!).
I'm really done with so much stupid... gahhh
This makes me love SMF even more. :angel:


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## KristaY (Jun 10, 2015)

It's so funny you mentioned this, fuzz-juzz. I was thinking the same earlier today. I was browsing some You Tube soap videos for inspiration and saw so many things that are down right dangerous. No gloves, no goggles, lots of clutter around the work area that could lead to disaster, kids and pets yelling and running around while soap is being made, etc. There was one that not only wasn't wearing gloves, she wasn't wearing SHOES! We all know better than to practice these unsafe measures but I always worry about new soapers that don't know better. They may see these videos and think lye is no big deal so don't need to worry about safety. Heaven forbid they have their first big lye volcano or batter spill with no shoes or eye protection. Eek....


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## seven (Jun 10, 2015)

Lol, you're not alone. Handmade soaps are kinda slowly booming over here, but sadly not everyone is willing to take time to read, research, and practice.

Imagine my horror to find a relatively new soaper selling natural sunscreen in the form of balm. Or another selling lotion w/o preservative.

The word natural and organic (over here), unfortunately, not being understood very well by some. Some thinks that EVERYTHING can be made au naturel. I feel like banging my head to the wall.


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## fuzz-juzz (Jun 10, 2015)

It's unbelievable isn't it grrr. 
What's even worse is that in the end I got judged and told off for actually having correct info.
I've given up for now, not worth wasting my energy and time.
There's nothing like SMF though, so much support and shared knowledge is a rare find these days on the www.:thumbup:


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## LBussy (Jun 10, 2015)

Sometimes I need to remind myself of an Internet-apropos analogy:

"Arguing with someone on the Internet is like wrestling in the mud with a pig. You never quite win and sooner or later you realize the pig likes it."


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## shunt2011 (Jun 10, 2015)

I totally get it as well.  I belong to several facebook groups and see the same kind of things.  I just bite my tongue sometimes.


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## Susie (Jun 10, 2015)

I leave those groups as soon as I see that info not get corrected promptly.  It saves me so much frustration and aggravation!


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## fuzz-juzz (Jun 10, 2015)

LBussy said:


> Sometimes I need to remind myself of an Internet-apropos analogy:
> 
> "Arguing with someone on the Internet is like wrestling in the mud with a pig. You never quite win and sooner or later you realize the pig likes it."



Love it haha!


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## LBussy (Jun 10, 2015)

shunt2011 said:


> I totally get it as well.  I belong to several facebook groups and see the same kind of things.  I just bite my tongue sometimes.


I quit Facebook several years ago, after finally getting fed up with vague self-serving, narcissistic "pray for me" posts.  I have a presence there, and people can contact me if they wish (who knows who will really need to find me?) but I don't allow posts, or tagging, or any of that.  I treat my Internet persona as carefully as I approach a job interview because it is.

Now, the only time I even touch Facebook is to look at a picture of my new Grandson (now you have to put up with a gratuitous Grandson pic







Anyway ... I realize Facebook is a valuable marketing tool for people in commerce, I get it.  Otherwise I always suggest people do as my Dad said and "never miss a good chance to shut the hell up."   When we actually had to _call_ people to talk to them, we called the phenomenon "phone balls," where a person would talk real big on the phone and not to your face.  Now it's even worse because you can say things to someone you have less of a chance meeting face to face than you have a chance to win the lottery.  How a person handles that speaks to their character.

I'm not going to say I have never stooped to the lows other people have presented me.  I'm only human, but I try now to surround myself with good people who will not feed that sadistic beast hiding in all of us.  There is no advice, no instructions, no help, for which it is worth sacrificing your character.

So my advice (and I know the OP did not ask for it, this was a vent) is to just surround yourself with good people.  If you don't know a word in English, post it in German and we value you enough here to figure it out.  I wish I could return the favor and write in German.  I can only speak it as a result of being stationed there, and because of the context in which I learned I'm most comfortable speaking German when ordering drinks or coming on to a lady.


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## Cactuslily (Jun 10, 2015)

I subscribe to the adage,"I'd rather be thought a fool, than to  open my mouth and prove it"
I've been shocked by the level of Internet nastiness. People hiding behind a computer and pseudo name can be appalling. Stupidity can be fixed, ignorance however, cannot. 
Thank goodness for the SMF community!


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## KristaY (Jun 10, 2015)

My hubby's favorite saying is "arguing with a fool only proves there's two". He thinks of it every time he starts to disagree with a foolish or stupid person so hangs up the phone, walks away or closes out Facebook. There's no point in trying to give good advice or instruction to someone that won't take it.


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## dixiedragon (Jun 10, 2015)

Confession time - I sometimes make soap with no gloves and no shoes. But I would never make a video of me doing that!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jun 10, 2015)

dixiedragon said:


> Confession time - I sometimes make soap with no gloves and no shoes. But I would never make a video of me doing that!



None of my soaps have gloves nor shoes....................


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## soapmage (Jun 10, 2015)

I actually left Facebook because of those groups and for other personal reasons for my personal AND biz page page (post reach being sucky due to their algorithms, yada yada)! There was SO much negativity, narcissism, the "I'm so much better than you because I've been doing it the longest", etc... not to mention the racial slurs, name calling, general cattiness. I had enough and it was actually affecting my clinical depression and anxiety. After I removed myself, I actually started feeling better. Granted, I miss some of the people I met there, but I left plenty of contact info so they could find me elsewhere... (has anyone contacted me? Nope).

Also, on the YT soaping vids... all I can say is YIKES on several I've seen. I'm just now starting to make vids myself and am so self conscience about what people will see. I always wear my PPE, my child is never allowed in my soaping room when I'm working unless I'm doing MP or BB's. I only have the one table, so yes, my space can be a bit cluttered, but I keep it as safe as possible and keep everything I need within reach. I know that on my videos, you can see the limited space, but I do what I can with the room I have. But some of the ones I've seen are from very well known soapers who have tons of fans and I cringe whenever I hear the very small children right in the room where soap is being made and lye is being handled! Or my favorite, screaming at the children full blast and not taking the time to edit that crap out or at least muting the volume during that section!!! GAH! Edit that crap before uploading, geez...


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## Stacyspy (Jun 10, 2015)

I'm guilty of not wearing shoes. I know I should. But I certainly wouldn't make a video of it either.  When I started making soap again, I wanted to brush up since it had been several years of not soaping. I saw so many "tutorials" that used unsafe practices, vague references, faulty recipes and just outright lies, I decided I would've been better off not seeing them.  It concerns me terribly that the uninitiated soaper sees these, and runs the risk of serious injury by following incorrect practices.


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## LBussy (Jun 10, 2015)

dixiedragon said:


> Confession time - I sometimes make soap with no gloves and no shoes. But I would never make a video of me doing that!


You pointing at someone?!  It was for the sake of the viewers!


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## not_ally (Jun 10, 2015)

It *is* crazy how some of the videos clearly have kids running around nearby.  I am dexterity challenged - never been diagnosed w/anything but have always had a lot of spills, accidents, etc.  Today, the end of my nose is burnt because I managed to stick it in lye batter when sniffing it, my face has little lye speck burns from splashing myself with lye batter while SB'ing, and I have a nasty 3 week old still-healing cut on my right index finger (do you guys know how much that one gets used, you realize it when it is out of commission) from leaving the SB on by mistake when cleaning.  I just ordered a face shield and cuffed lab coat from Amazon 

Anyway, soaping safety and caution - especially with kids and pets around - is really important, videos that disregard them are actively dangerous.


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## TeresaT (Jun 10, 2015)

I'm guilty of not wearing shoes.  And I slightly burned my foot.  Even AFTER I neutralized the dribbled lye water with vinegar and mopped it up with copious amounts of water and paper towels.  I must have stepped in a spot that I hadn't neutralized.  I'm just glad it was the bottom of my foot and not one of the dogs.  After that slight mishap, I decided shoes are cool soaping gear after all.  I highly recommend them.  "Once burned, twice shy," ain't no joke.


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## LBussy (Jun 10, 2015)

not_ally said:


> I am dexterity challenged.


True story:  I saw my wife trip on a stripe in the parking lot.


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## TeresaT (Jun 10, 2015)

Oh gosh, Not Ally, that is awful!  (Have you ever had your depth perception tested by an eye specialist?  Might be a good idea.  And your inner ear for balance issues by an ENT?  Problems with either depth perception or inner ear issues can cause all kinds of weird "klutzy" stuff.)

Anyway, which lab coat & face shield did you end up ordering?  I'm still searching.  I hate my goggles, they are constantly fogging up.  Which forces me to take them off.  Where's the safety in that, I ask (smh&rme)?


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## not_ally (Jun 10, 2015)

Teresa, that might not be a bad idea (testing, I mean).  I'll ask my PCP about it next time I go in.

Re goggles, I initially got some of those onion goggles b/c the Soap Queen always wears them and I watched so many of her videos in the beginning   But end up mostly wearing my cheap dollar store ones, I like them better now.  But it is not usually humid here in LA, so no fogging problems.

Here's the links to the shield and lab coat - I wanted to get stuff that was /well-rated but still relatively inexpensive, these seemed like the best combo.  Haven't tried them yet though, they don't arrive until tomorrow, so can't personally opine:

shield:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BO6RIE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

lab coat: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0024906A4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## IrishLass (Jun 10, 2015)

LBussy said:


> Otherwise I always suggest people do as my Dad said and "never miss a good chance to shut the hell up."


 

I like it! I'm adding that to my list of wise sayings. 




			
				LBussy said:
			
		

> When we actually had to _call_ people to talk to them, we called the phenomenon "phone balls," where a person would talk real big on the phone and not to your face. Now it's even worse because you can say things to someone you have less of a chance meeting face to face than you have a chance to win the lottery. How a person handles that speaks to their character.
> 
> I'm not going to say I have never stooped to the lows other people have presented me. I'm only human, but I try now to surround myself with good people who will not feed that sadistic beast hiding in all of us. There is no advice, no instructions, no help, for which it is worth sacrificing your character.
> 
> So my advice (and I know the OP did not ask for it, this was a vent) is to just surround yourself with good people.


 



Ditto that^^^^. The level of rudeness and downright mean-ness that abounds on the interwebs/social media can be quite breathtaking. All of us are given the opportunity daily to either feed that inner sadistic beast or to 'shut the hell up', and it amazes me how so many are so incredibly eager to throw every vestige of caution to the wind on social media and sacrifice their character (or decimate someone else''s life) just to feed an ugly, sadistic beast. Yeah, there might be a brief feeling of satisfaction/superiority from having 'one-upped' someone, but at what price? As one who used to cluelessly feed that beast with abandon in my younger days, I can say without hesitation that he's truly not worth the expense of so much 'food'.

Shhhh, don't tell anyone, but I often soap without shoes....... but never, ever without gloves or goggles.


IrishLass


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## Susie (Jun 10, 2015)

Ignorance(according to Mirriam Webster) is this:  : a lack of knowledge, understanding, or education : the state of being ignorant

Stupidity, however, is this: the state of being foolish or unintelligent : the condition of being stupid

In practical terms, however, stupidity is the unwillingness to learn(foolish), rather than the lack of knowledge.  

We can cure ignorance by providing good, solid information.  No one can cure stupidity except the person that refuses to learn.  

Those FB groups have way too many of the "don't want to learn better", and too few willing and able to provide good information.


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## galaxyMLP (Jun 10, 2015)

I agree that it is some stupidity. I also think its the mentality of "well, I'm careful so that won't happen to me". If working in a lab has taught me anything, its that bad things can happen to the most careful people. 

I get the soaping with no shoes thing. I soaped with sandals on once (instead of sneakers) and that happened to be the time that I spilled soap batter on my feet/floor. I dropped everything and cleaned up right away. I wear my prescription safety glasses while I soap. I also wear long pants, sneakers, and gloves. 

For some reason my dogs know not to go into the kitchen while I soap. Cooking is a different story though... Lol.


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## fuzz-juzz (Jun 10, 2015)

I actually did leave FB for almost 2 years. I don't know why I bothered again...
SMF will always have me though hehe! 
Thanks guys, you made me laugh and feel better!

I'm awake now and can type more (had my coffee  ).
I now that Internet can unfortunately be a very nasty place. But it keeps surprising me again and again. 
I know people will turn to personal insults in the lack of valid argument. My pet hate is when they include my children in it (?!).
it just shows personality of those people, not me. 
Apart from being sonewhat angry, I actually do pitty them in a way and feel sorry for new people who are not getting proper advice,, but I guess it is how will it always be on the www.
Not worth the energy and time as many of you said. 
Let's spend time on making soap.


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## Relle (Jun 11, 2015)

KristaY said:


> My hubby's favorite saying is "arguing with a fool only proves there's two". He thinks of it every time he starts to disagree with a foolish or stupid person so hangs up the phone, walks away or closes out Facebook. There's no point in trying to give good advice or instruction to someone that won't take it.


 
My dh's saying is -
Never argue with an idiot, because they'll drag you down to their level and bet you through shear experience.



fuzz-juzz said:


> I feel we should have a section for venting. roblem:


 
FJ, as for a section for venting, I say no, because I think keeping everything positive is the way to go. See my dh's saying above - I think that say's it all. The idiots can't argue with silence.


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