# Ideas



## scotsman (Jul 28, 2014)

I recently obtained my first commercial client. They own a pair of high-end salon/spas and were sufficiently impressed with my soap that they now want to stock it on their shelves and are willing to buy it wholesale from me at almost my retail price. The only caveat is that they want the front of the packaging labeled with their company's logo, with my company's logo and info on the back of the packaging. Totally doable, especially since they have no issues about me stamping my company's logo directly on the bar of soap. They plan to significantly mark up the price of the soaps as they have an extremely wealthy clientele that won't bat an eye at paying $9 or more per bar. My quandary is that I'm trying to come up with ideas for luxury, spa-quality soaps I can make test batches of and pitch to them that will be sufficiently luxurious as to justify the incredibly high price point they will be charging and will appeal to their wealthy clientele. Anybody have any ideas? I'm already kicking around some salt bar ideas and just did up another test batch last night with some higher-end ingredients like silk. I was thinking of maybe adding some luxury oils like argan or emu. Does anybody have experience using the luxury oils in cp soap? Which ones would retain noticeable benefits in the finished product? I don't want to dump a bunch of luxury oils into soap for label appeal alone. I want them to at least provide some benefit and from my research there seems to be two schools of thought. The first is that many of these luxury oils do little to nothing in cp soap because their beneficial properties are essentially nullified during saponification and really only provide noticeable results in leave-on treatments(which are not an option for me). The second school of thought is that they do retain beneficial qualities in cp...especially emu oil. What do you guys think?


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## shunt2011 (Jul 28, 2014)

My personal feeling is using luxury oils in soap is strictly for label appeal as there is really no way to know what survives the soponification process. Som oils do have more unsoponifiables in them so you would need to research the oils you want to use. I choose to use luxury oils in leave on products only. I do use silk in all my recipes except my vegan soaps. However, if you hot process then you could add your luxury oils after the cook. I have seen some beautiful hot process soaps.  Adding certain clays to soap also gives them label appeal.


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## lsg (Jul 28, 2014)

I consider my Aloe/Cream bar spa quality, as it is sudsy and has a wonderful creamy feel.  Why not use infused oils.  Infuse with calendula, comfrey or chamomile etc.  That way you can use olive and other readily available oils with the label appeal of herb-infused oils.


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## DeeAnna (Jul 28, 2014)

I will also add that your client is impressed with the soap you are CURRENTLY making, so keep that in mind. It is tempting to do too much too fast in search of an elusive goal and lose sight of the success one already has found.

There's nothing wrong with exploring new ideas, different additives, tweaks to recipes ... I do it all the time too ... but keep in mind that you already have something that is working really well. 

Another thing to consider is design. I don't know if you do much in the way of swirling and other fancy design work, but increasing the visual interest of your product might be something to consider. 

And on the same note, what about an upgrade to your packaging? (I have absolutely no idea how you package your soap, so don't take this as a criticism of what you do -- it's totally a blind suggestion.) Sometimes it's not what's IN the box that is particularly different or special ... it's the box itself.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jul 28, 2014)

I agree with DeeAnna - they want to sell your soap, so why are you looking at doing too much to change what they like?


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## jade-15 (Jul 28, 2014)

I have my basic recipe which is *almost* perfect. On my to-do list is to test the addition of 10% of different oils (sweet almond, avocado, grapeseed, mango butter etc) and then I can compare the differences... By keeping my base the same I will know exactly what each oil brings. 
I can't offer any advice about luxury oils and what they bring, but just thought I would share my plan... 

I also agree with DeeAnna and TEG, they are already impressed with your soaps!
And congratulations.


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## dixiedragon (Jul 28, 2014)

Congratulations! That's awesome! Since they like the soaps as is, I wouldn't tinker with it to make it "better". I would definitely try some things like salt bars, etc. If it's a spa that is all about being natural, I would use natural colorants.


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## eucalypta (Jul 28, 2014)

DeeAnna said:
			
		

> will also add that your client is impressed with the soap you are CURRENTLY making, so keep that in mind. It is tempting to do too much too fast in search of an elusive goal and lose sight of the success one already has found.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with exploring new ideas, different additives, tweaks to recipes ... I do it all the time too ... but keep in mind that you already have something that is working really well.


 
 ↑This↑

 I would say "Less is more".
 If you'd wish to add some special oils, please choose those because YOU like them.
 Educate yourself about butters and oils; google for example "emu oil benefits"; read as much as you can, 
 and if you're pleased with what you read, order some and test it yourself.

 My 2 cts on "special" fats:
 Each country/region has its own oils. In Africa it is Shea; they use it for everything.
 But in New Zealand there is Emu oil, same story: the swear by it.
 In the mediterrenean region it's Olive oil.
 Then there is Babassu, Kokum, Illipe, Kpangnan ..... I 'don't think I need to go on. 

 Sure thing you get most benefits from the oils and butters in leave on products. 
 But if you'want to soap them, see what theybring to the table soapwise.
 ( example: Babassu + coconut oil is one too many as they more or less have the same soaping properties.)

 Once in a while I make a "spoilt rotten" soap (started as a Valentine Soap);
 Qua oils to include I choose a few of these: Emu Oil, Evening Primrose, Sea Buckthorn Oil, Shea Nilotica (Vitellaria Nilotica) with Vanilla Planifolia; Monoi de Tahiti, Babassu, Kokum Butter and Cocoa butter (castor and olive).
 Madness, but great label appeal.

more about exotic oils profiles 
 Always a pleasure to share SCM 's info.


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## LunaSkye (Jul 28, 2014)

Everyone is giving good advice. 

I agree with DeeAnna about sticking to the recipe they wanted. It's not bad if you want to try out some other ideas, but it's best to give people what they want. Plus, you could always provide your clients with samples of the other soaps, that way the can see other possible soaps for future sales.


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## Candybee (Jul 28, 2014)

I have several wholesale accounts and sell them what I have available. I can't stress how important this is. If you start making a whole line of soaps specific to this customer it means you always have to have them on hand to sell them. So if you don't ordinarily make them don't start a new account with soaps you don't already make and have on hand. I know this from experience and it was a hard lesson to learn. On top of that every time they order you have to make a special order for them and they also have to wait for them to cure. So this could take 6-8 weeks minimum or longer if you are out of any one ingredient and have to order. If they are okay with that, fine. If not, let them select from what you already make. Later on if you add new soaps to your line you can always show them what's new.

As far as adding luxory oils unless you plan to add them at 10-20% or more of the oil in your recipe you won't be able to tell the difference in the quality of the soap. For example, my luxory avocado soap features 20% avocado oil along with fresh pureed avocado, aloe vera, and grapeseed oil. If I used only 5% I could not tell the difference in the finished soap no matter what the luxory oil is. I hope that makes sense.  It is also important that you work the numbers and price your luxory oil soap according to the total costs of making it.


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## Seawolfe (Jul 28, 2014)

I agree that you should keep in mind that they were impressed with the soaps you are already making.

However if I were to pick two of my favorite bars for wow factor, one would definitely be a salt bar and one would be a red clay and charcoal bar. I got the idea for mine from this Soap Queen tutorial. Although that one is melt and pour its easy to figure out how to do similar with CP, and I used Moroccan red clay and madder root infusion for the red. People love it, and you can easily add in a bit of fancy oil or butter - I used shea.


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## HoneyLady (Jul 30, 2014)

All very good points!

 My question would be : What does the SPA want ?  Specifically ?  Are they looking for products they can use on the client and THEN sell in the front?  Just for sale ?  What's their niche ?  Do they use all vegan products ?  (My lard and honey/beeswax soaps wouldn't do, then !)  Organic ?  What's their hook ?  What products are they using now ?  Why do they like them ?

 Try and talk to them about what they envision.  I have had several different jobs through the years that involved my taking other's ideas and putting them on paper, in one form or another.  If these people don't know soap making, you are not on the same page with them.  You need to ask "Describe the picture you see in your head when you talk about my soaps in your spa."  Chances are 50/50 their picture is fuzzy, and THEY don't know what they want.

 They may be thinking coordinated lines of products -- soap, shampoo, lotion, balm, all identically scented.  They may want YOUR soaps with THEIR label on them, to give the impression THEY are creators of the soap.  Can you still sell soap elsewhere, or do they want to be exclusive ? 

 (An interesting question there : If YOU make it, and they put THEIR name on it, who bears the liability when someone decides the little red scratch on their arm they got from their own fingernail is really contact dermatitis, and are ready to sue ?)

 It may be a dream deal, but start writing down questions to ask.  It only makes you look smarter.

 ~HoneyLady~ :grin:


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## Dorymae (Jul 30, 2014)

HoneyLady said:


> All very good points!
> 
> (An interesting question there : If YOU make it, and they put THEIR name on it, who bears the liability when someone decides the little red scratch on their arm they got from their own fingernail is really contact dermatitis, and are ready to sue ?)
> 
> ~HoneyLady~ :grin:




The manufacturer of a product is responsible for the safety of the product.  That is what the regulations state in the US.


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## scotsman (Jul 31, 2014)

Yes, I would be liable even if I am doing private labeling for them, which is what they want. They get the front of the box and I get the back panel and the stamp on the bar. I have a meeting with the owner next week, but I already have a solid idea of what they are looking for because the gentleman who is brokering the deal for me has a strong working knowledge of the fundamentals of soap making as well as the general costs associated with it. Actually this guy is so good that he negotiated a wholesale price that was not too much lower than my retail price. In addition, he is considering becoming an investor in my company. An investor with very deep pockets, lol! Just don't wanna get too far ahead of myself. He's already courting additional clients to be resellers of my products and I worry that if I take on too many clients I won't be able to keep up with demand. I work 60+ hours a week minimum at my new day job so that doesn't leave a whole heck of a lot of time to make soap. Pretty soon my family will forget what I look like, lol! My son does help me with making soap, and is getting rather good at it, but he's not yet to the point where he can write recipes and put together batches completely on his own. Also, not sure I completely trust a 12 year old to handle raw lye on his own without me supervising. He's a very careful and methodical kid, but that just leaves too much potential for disaster. Maybe when he's a little older. But I will say that I am thrilled that he's taken such an interest in it and has a natural head for the scientific side of it. He actually helped me write my first base recipe that I still use frequently because it produces a wonderfully balanced, yet cost-effective soap. When he gets back from visiting his sister and her husband next week he wants me to teach him how to make shave soap since he's just recently had to start shaving his face and wants to do it old school like I do. Not gonna turn him loose with a straight razor and a strop just yet though. I picked him up an old fashioned safety razor the other day along with a really nice shave brush and a cool antique wooden shaving bowl. He can use those with his first handmade shave soap. Sorry I'm rambling but I'm excited that my boy is growing up. His mother isn't so enthusiastic that he's becoming a young man, lol! She'll always see him as a little boy no matter how old he is. Ok, I'm way over tired and methinks it is time to get my but into bed before I start getting crazy ideas...like starting a batch if soap at 1am when I have to be up for work at 5am, lmao!


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## girlishcharm2004 (Jul 31, 2014)

Twelve years old? He's basically a man.  Think of this as his Rite of Passage.  It'll be good for you both to give him a good challenge.


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