# the mystery of the instant cure



## JBot (Apr 9, 2015)

Last summer, while I was enthusiastically purchasing handcrafted soap but hadn’t yet considered making it myself, I had an interesting conversation with a local crafter.  She sells at several of the farmers markets in the area and appears to have a sizeable business.  She makes goat milk soap using fresh milk from her own goats, and I think it’s a full-time occupation for her and her family.

She was friendly enough, and it seems like she knows what she’s doing.  (I was very amused when a customer asked her whether her soap is “pH balanced,” and I overheard her answer, “Yes, it’s balanced to a pH of 10!”)  She said various other things that lead me to believe she has a solid grasp of soap-making chemistry.

Based on the appearance of the soap – texture, swirls, etc. – I’m pretty sure it’s cold process.  But when I asked her how long she cured it, she said she uses a “proprietary process” that allows her soap to be ready for sale/use in as little as 24 hours.  At the time I knew very little about soap-making, and had no idea how preposterous that sounded, so of course I was very impressed.  She said it’s a technique she’s developed over time, but she obviously didn’t want to say more, and I didn’t press her.  She told me a story about how a local specialty hotel that uses her soap had some sort of inventory emergency, and she was able to make and deliver the soap that very day.  I’m familiar with the hotel, and the other details of her story were totally believable, so I’m not sure what to think.

I’ve been wondering about it every since.  What could she possibly be doing?!  The swirls are too wispy and the soap is too smooth for it to be HP, and besides, HP needs to cure just like CP.  It’s not MP.  I don’t think she was lying, and everything else she said to me that day has turned out to be true, but I just cannot see how it’s possible to instantly cure CP.

There aren’t very many things that only ONE person has thought of, and considering how many people have been making soap for how many years, I would think that if such a process existed, other people would have “discovered” it, too.  (Has anybody here tried putting fresh CP in an industrial dehydrator?)

What do you all think?  Does she have a magical trick, or is she blowing smoke?

She did say one thing that seemed odd in retrospect.  I bought a bunch of her soap, and when I asked her about storing it, she said it would keep indefinitely, except that the scent might fade.  To preserve the scent, she recommended storing them in plastic bags or saran wrap.  Yikes!  I cut up some of the bars stored them in various ways: unwrapped, paper-wrapped, cloth-wrapped, saran-wrapped, plastic-bagged, Glad Cling-Wrapped, wax paper-wrapped, parchment paper-wrapped, and Food Saver-sealed in airtight plastic.  Eventually I’ll open them up to evaluate their condition and report back.

I ultimately wasn’t crazy about her soap when I used it.  It didn’t have a great lather, it dried out my skin, it smelled “goat-y” to me, and her other ingredients struck me as very cheap.  But that’s all personal preference.  Objectively her soap seems just fine, and lots of people appear to like it.


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## Dorymae (Apr 9, 2015)

I have used a professional dehydrator and it will dry the soap faster. However it doesn't cure it. It will make it hard as a rock quickly, but again it only takes away the water, it can not make the soap mild. 

There is the chance that the woman simply did not know that curing is not just getting rid of water. I believe that is the case because a good soap when cured properly will not dry you out or smell like anything but fragrance and soap. 

I've made bad soap that was borderline after a good cure. Decent soap is really really good after a cure.


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## IrishLass (Apr 9, 2015)

I call blowing smoke. I think these two things from your experience with her soap are good indicators as to why: "It didn’t have a great lather, it dried out my skin". Those 2 things are very typical of uncured soap (and a few of the reasons why we are all so adamant about curing!). This is just a hunch on my part, but I think it's very possible (probably in order to get to market quicker?) that she's simply just zap-testing as soon as she unmolds and then calling them 'cured' if they don't zap? 

I'll be interested to know the results of your 'storage' experiment!


IrishLass


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## Obsidian (Apr 9, 2015)

If she forces gel, it should be zap free and "safe" after 24 hours but as you discovered, it won't be a good soap.


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## Susie (Apr 9, 2015)

If I were you, I would look around her trash for the boxes of MP.  That is the only way she was able to make and deliver soap the same day to a hotel.  Sorry, but my fertilizer alarm is going off.


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## newbie (Apr 9, 2015)

If she made the soap, gelled it, cooled it quickly, then cut it, it would be zap-free. If that is her definition of ready to use, she could manage a same day delivery. WHo knows? But it wouldn't be quality soap or her best quality soap, anyhow.


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## LBussy (Apr 9, 2015)

Is it possible she makes her own "M&P" bases, then finishes when she needs a batch?  I might be way off base here but it seems plausible to have 50# of base laying around.  If one did it that way, it would certainly not be in one's interest to advertise it as a M&P.


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## AnnaMarie (Apr 9, 2015)

It's called the art of sales- one can make virtually anything sound good and legitimate with a few well placed and official sounding words (ie: proprietary process). It might all be true from a certain viewpoint....I'm with Susie on this- something is fishy here.

Best,
Anna Marie


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## JBot (Apr 9, 2015)

IrishLass said:


> I call blowing smoke. I think these two things from your experience with her soap are good indicators as to why: "It didn’t have a great lather, it dried out my skin". Those 2 things are very typical of uncured soap (and a few of the reasons why we are all so adamant about curing!). This is just a hunch on my part, but I think it's very possible (probably in order to get to market quicker?) that she's simply just zap-testing as soon as she unmolds and then calling them 'cured' if they don't zap?
> 
> I'll be interested to know the results of your 'storage' experiment!
> 
> ...



I would agree that the poor lather and the dry skin were indicators of it being essentially uncured, except that it's exactly the same today as it was last summer.  (Re-testing bars that were sitting unwrapped on a shelf all this time, so they had every opportunity to cure.)  Still smells like goat-butt, too; if anything that's gotten worse over time.

Even weirder: I'm not sure her soap is gelled.  But I'm not all that great at telling gelled and un-gelled bars apart.  Is it even possible to make soap using fresh goat's milk and force gel without cracks and volcanoes?  I don't work with milk soaps myself.

I don't know if the particular bars I purchased were made that recently, only that she claimed she COULD have them ready in 24 hours.  Her soaps had an extremely uniform appearance and texture, too, even though the colors varied from one scent to the next.

I would love to try a professional dehydrator on my soaps.  I bet that would ensure that the bars wouldn't shrink unevenly after I trim/plane them.


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## OliveOil2 (Apr 9, 2015)

Sounds like she is all talk, lots of people care more about the sale, than the quality of their product. Last weekend I was talking to a soap maker at a craft fair, claimed to be soaping a couple of years, however she was selling cold process soap that she had made a few days before the fair. I opened my big mouth, and asked why she would do that, and she told me it was perfectly safe. When I told her the soap would improve with time and last longer she looked at me like I was crazy. She told me she has always done it that way, and I was probably very rude, but I said then you really shouldn't sell your soap.


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## JBot (Apr 9, 2015)

AnnaMarie said:


> It's called the art of sales- one can make virtually anything sound good and legitimate with a few well placed and official sounding words (ie: proprietary process). It might all be true from a certain viewpoint....I'm with Susie on this- something is fishy here.
> 
> Best,
> Anna Marie



Yeah, I wasn't moved by her use of the term "proprietary process," since I'm well aware that it's just a fancy way of saying "sooper seekrit recipe."  (I worked in the legal field way too long to be impressed by that kind of language.)  What DID impress me was her "ability" to "cure" the soap in 24 hours.  But obviously I'm skeptical about it now.

I, too, wondered if she used some kind of homemade MP that she prepared in large batches in advance.  But I'm pretty sure that even homemade MP has to contain ingredients other than goat milk, soybean oil, and coconut oil.  Unless she's lying on her label, but that's a whole other can of worms.


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## IrishLass (Apr 9, 2015)

JBot said:


> I would agree that the poor lather and the dry skin were indicators of it being essentially uncured, except that it's exactly the same today as it was last summer. (Re-testing bars that were sitting unwrapped on a shelf all this time, so they had every opportunity to cure.) Still smells like goat-butt, too; if anything that's gotten worse over time
> 
> Even weirder: I'm not sure her soap is gelled. But I'm not all that great at telling gelled and un-gelled bars apart. Is it even possible to make soap using fresh goat's milk and force gel without cracks and volcanoes? I don't work with milk soaps myself.


 
Very interesting. I'm now thinking the same thing Susie is thinking- i.e., looking around her trash for boxes of MP. All the MP I've ever used has never improved with time, and if fresh goat milk was added to it, it stinks, and the stink gets worse (I used to know a lady who made MP with fresh milk from her goats). Of all the CP batches I've made with fresh goat milk, I must say that none of them have ever smelled like goat butt. lol Granted, my 'fresh' goat milk was in a carton from the refrigerated section of my grocer instead of being fresh from the goat, but they've all smelled great. 



			
				JBot said:
			
		

> Is it even possible to make soap using fresh goat's milk and force gel without cracks and volcanoes?


 
Yes- I do it all the time.

IrishLass


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## JBot (Apr 9, 2015)

OliveOil2 said:


> Sounds like she is all talk, lots of people care more about the sale, than the quality of their product. Last weekend I was talking to a soap maker at a craft fair, claimed to be soaping a couple of years, however she was selling cold process soap that she had made a few days before the fair. I opened my big mouth, and asked why she would do that, and she told me it was perfectly safe. When I told her the soap would improve with time and last longer she looked at me like I was crazy. She told me she has always done it that way, and I was probably very rude, but I said then you really shouldn't sell your soap.



HAHA!  My two favorite pieces of baloney that I've heard from sellers at markets and craft fairs:

"Goat milk soap cures cancer because the pH of goat milk is exactly the same as the pH of your skin!"  Never mind the fact that the pH of the finished soap is totally different, right?  (This was not the same person who told me her soap could be ready in 24 hours.)

"My cold process is superfatted with unicorn oil."  If you're experienced enough to sell, you should understand enough about the chemistry to know that unless it's a single-oil soap, you can't control which oil makes up the superfat in CP.  You CAN'T.  Full stop.  So the seller was either A) lying, or B) ignorant about her own product.  I'm not sure which one troubles me more.

I almost never call them out on it, since I worry that hostile confrontations with strangers could end badly, but this sort of thing is terribly frustrating.  The spread of misinformation is damaging to us all.


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## JBot (Apr 9, 2015)

IrishLass said:


> Very interesting. I'm now thinking the same thing Susie is thinking- i.e., looking around her trash for boxes of MP. All the MP I've ever used has never improved with time, and if fresh goat milk was added to it, it stinks, and the stink gets worse (I used to know a lady who made MP with fresh milk from her goats).
> 
> IrishLass



Now you've got me thinking: if you're adding milk to MP, which is presumably fully saponified with no free lye remaining, then wouldn't the milk in the finished bar be essentially raw/uncooked/unsaponified?  Wouldn't the milk spoil?  What a revolting thought. . .


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## OliveOil2 (Apr 9, 2015)

Yes that is what I wanted to say, is by selling fresh soap you are making all soap makers look bad. You know I was thinking about the possibility that it was m&p; you just have to go to Etsy to see soaps that look more like cp with tons of additives, herbs, clays etc. they are made to look like cp. So maybe that is her secret.


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## AnnaMarie (Apr 9, 2015)

JBot said:


> Yeah, I wasn't moved by her use of the term "proprietary process," since I'm well aware that it's just a fancy way of saying "sooper seekrit recipe."  (I worked in the legal field way too long to be impressed by that kind of language.)  What DID impress me was her "ability" to "cure" the soap in 24 hours.  But obviously I'm skeptical about it now.
> 
> I, too, wondered if she used some kind of homemade MP that she prepared in large batches in advance.  But I'm pretty sure that even homemade MP has to contain ingredients other than goat milk, soybean oil, and coconut oil.  Unless she's lying on her label, but that's a whole other can of worms.



What I was trying to imply was that she might be escaping on technicalities when saying her soap is cured in a day (it all might be true from a certain viewpoint). Maybe in her mind the fact that her soap doesn't zap means it's cured. Who knows what her criteria for curing is? In any case, it sounds like bull, and you're right to be leery


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## pamielynn (Apr 9, 2015)

JBot said:


> Now you've got me thinking: if you're adding milk to MP, which is presumably fully saponified with no free lye remaining, then wouldn't the milk in the finished bar be essentially raw/uncooked/unsaponified?  Wouldn't the milk spoil?  What a revolting thought. . .



Just like the breast milk lady who's been in the news so much lately.


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## JBot (Apr 9, 2015)

AnnaMarie said:


> Maybe in her mind the fact that her soap doesn't zap means it's cured. Who knows what her criteria for curing is?



Absolutely.  For similar reasons, I don't like the way some people use terms like "natural."  It can be misleading, often deliberately so.



pamielynn said:


> Just like the breast milk lady who's been in the news so much lately.



What?!  Tell me more!  I will google it, although I fear the garbage that may be in my search results. . .


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## zolveria (Apr 10, 2015)

Dunno Gals I made a HP soap and it was done it did not lather much but on a puff sponge it went wild. I have CPOP and then COOLED and my soaps are nice. I have also Just CP and let cook for 3 weeks and they where the nicest little bars. BUT nothing compares to a hard cured soap  I know for sure. My family and friends have used my soaps Moringa  soaps etc after 72 hours and none have complained of dry skin. 

Maybe it MP soap?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Apr 10, 2015)

AnnaMarie said:


> What I was trying to imply was that she might be escaping on technicalities when saying her soap is cured in a day (it all might be true from a certain viewpoint). Maybe in her mind the fact that her soap doesn't zap means it's cured. Who knows what her criteria for curing is? In any case, it sounds like bull, and you're right to be leery




I think this is a good point. I might sell a 4 week old soap and consider it cured. Someone else my sell a 6 week old soap and consider that cured, but 4 weeks too early. She might well consider "a few moments" fully cured. Which is scary!


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## MorpheusPA (Apr 10, 2015)

Mind you, I did an HP rescue on a CP failure and used it three days later.  In my own shower, and I'd never give it to anybody else. It's decent soap if you ignore the warped scent and terrible color.  I still have my hide intact and it's not drying.  Durability leaves something to be desired due to the lack of cure.

However, even with HP I wouldn't give the stuff away until week 4 at minimum.  Week 6, more likely.

I tend to agree that the lack of improving characteristics tends to indicate MP.  Not that there's anything wrong with MP, per se.


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## JBot (Apr 10, 2015)

MorpheusPA said:


> I tend to agree that the lack of improving characteristics tends to indicate MP.  Not that there's anything wrong with MP, per se.



Nothing inherently wrong with MP, but there IS something wrong with misrepresenting it as CP/from scratch.  Her label reads: soybean oil, coconut oil, goat's milk, palm oil.  Maybe soybean oil is actually a good soaping oil -- never used it myself -- but I associate it with the bulk vegetable oil that's sold at the grocery store for cooking, and it seems terribly cheap.  And by "cheap" I mean low-quality, not a good bargain.  

But after examining it again, I really don't think it's MP.  It doesn't have that sticky texture, and it doesn't sweat.  They've shrunk over time; the cigar bands are noticeably looser.

My nose is more sensitive than most, and the sour smell I can detect under the fragrance is just awful.  No DOS or anything, but they do have that sort of muddy yellow color that a lot of milk soaps seem to end up with, which sadly detracts from the colored swirls.  Her swirls are really beautiful!  Some of the FO she uses must be accelerators: rose, plumeria, etc.  Makes me wonder how she gets those lovely, delicate swirls that need to be done at thin trace.

If YOU figured out a way to actually do what she's claiming she does, would you tell other people how you do it?


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## Susie (Apr 10, 2015)

I don't sell my soap, so I would tell everyone.  Repeatedly.  But, yes, I get your point.  Anyone that does sell soap would certainly be wise to keep it a secret.


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## Trix (Apr 10, 2015)

Hi jbot, I agree with those who say this is probably M&P mixed with goats milk, and then dehydrated.
 ppl add all sort of additives to melt and pour, and goats milk is no exception at all.

Did she not have an ingredients list, I thought that by latin the USA a seller needs to have one, but I don't really know?


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## Muskette (Apr 10, 2015)

There's an easy way to rule out it being MP. Just put a piece in the microwave and melt it - see if it turns to liquid.

I think it's some kind of HP. Lots of soapers believe that HP doesn't need curing. Maybe she just used the GM as an additive at the end of the cook, for label appeal, and to make the batter more fluid for her swirls. That would explain the goat smell.


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## dillsandwitch (Apr 10, 2015)

Theres this lady on one of the Facebook pages I'm a member of that sells her soap less than a week after she makes it and people seem to snap up her "all natural soaps". She lists her ingredients as Coconut oil, Olive Oil, Tallow, Distilled water, Natural colouring and Essential oils, yet some of the fragrances she has can in no way be an essential oil. I mean can you squeeze jelly beans or something? hahahahaha

It drives me nuts when people do this, especially as I have been thinking somewhat seriously about getting into selling my own soaps soon. Maybe I should just make it a goal to sell better and more quality soaps then her and "steal" away her customers..... mmmwwhahahaha 

But until then if it happens i will just quietly disprove of her  selling uncured soaps to unsuspecting peoples.


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## LBussy (Apr 10, 2015)

Trix said:


> Did she not have an ingredients list, I thought that by latin the USA a seller needs to have one, but I don't really know?


No, but if it is listed it needs to be correct.  Shave soap does need an ingredient list, but not something simply made for cleansing.

Now, make a claim like "moisturizes skin" and you are in a different category.


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## navigator9 (Apr 10, 2015)

I have used my own CPOPed soaps right after I cut them. They are "useable", but I would never sell them without a full cure, or even give them away to my friends. There will always be sellers who see dollar signs as more important than people. But if you make great soap, and are honest with your customers, you will grow a loyal customer base who know and love your product and can't live without it. If you make a great product, there's no need to stretch the truth. And if you do stretch it, sooner or later someone will call you out, and it's very hard to regain customer's trust once you've lost it. It's so much easier to just do the right thing.


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## Seawolfe (Apr 10, 2015)

I bet she CPOP's her soap, and, following the logic of that crazy lady who says HP is ready for use after cutting, so is CPOP.
You really cant do CP swirls in M&P I am finding, and M&P will never match the hardness of CP/HP/CPOP soap.


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## JBot (Apr 10, 2015)

navigator9 said:


> I have used my own CPOPed soaps right after I cut them. They are "useable", but I would never sell them without a full cure, or even give them away to my friends. There will always be sellers who see dollar signs as more important than people. But if you make great soap, and are honest with your customers, you will grow a loyal customer base who know and love your product and can't live without it. If you make a great product, there's no need to stretch the truth. And if you do stretch it, sooner or later someone will call you out, and it's very hard to regain customer's trust once you've lost it. It's so much easier to just do the right thing.



Indeed.  I don't know whether she has repeat customers (people who don't know that soap can be better than that?), but I'd think it would be difficult to make a living selling soap if you didn't have repeat customers.



Trix said:


> Hi jbot, I agree with those who say this is probably M&P mixed with goats milk, and then dehydrated.
> ppl add all sort of additives to melt and pour, and goats milk is no exception at all.
> 
> Did she not have an ingredients list, I thought that by latin the USA a seller needs to have one, but I don't really know?



She does.  Soybean oil, coconut oil, goat's milk, palm oil.



Susie said:


> I don't sell my soap, so I would tell everyone.  Repeatedly.  But, yes, I get your point.  Anyone that does sell soap would certainly be wise to keep it a secret.



I've thought about this a lot as I've wondered if I could ever get her to tell me what she's doing.  (She won't, pretty sure of that.)  I actually think I would share the secret, even though I do plan to sell in the future, and here's why: it has no bearing on how good your recipe is, how good your soap smells, or how pretty it is.  It's purely a matter of time.  Assuming equal quality, it makes no difference (to me) whether I have to cure my soap for 4-6 weeks or can sell it right away.

Seriously, what's the rush?  Maybe it would matter for the first month or two, but after that, you should have plenty of cured soap available for sale while the fresh stuff cures, and as long as you maintain your pipeline, it shouldn't be a problem to wait.

If I had a huge operation, perhaps the amount of space it takes to cure a lot of soap for 6 weeks would make a difference, but if I had business that big, presumably I would also have the space.

Then again, easy for me to say, right?  I've never been in that position.


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## MorpheusPA (Apr 10, 2015)

JBot said:


> But after examining it again, I really don't think it's MP.  It doesn't have that sticky texture, and it doesn't sweat.  They've shrunk over time; the cigar bands are noticeably looser.



It's weird, but my MP base doesn't sweat or get sticky.  I use Crafter's Choice.  

I can't tell you if it shrinks because I plastic wrap MP or leave it naked (I find a syndet bar simply does better on my hair and for shaving, so I use those instead of CP).



> Makes me wonder how she gets those lovely, delicate swirls that need to be done at thin trace.



That does indicate CP as MP is extremely difficult to swirl.  It can be done, and I've managed, but the swirls aren't what you'd call "delicate."



> If YOU figured out a way to actually do what she's claiming she does, would you tell other people how you do it?



Probably.  I've freely shared any other technique or modification I've done so others can benefit.  Specific recipes, experiences with fragrance oils and colorants, you name it.

Hey, you guys aren't really competition for me even if I sold.  My aesthetic is going to differ and there's room for everybody.  Just the price of this stuff says that demand is greater than supply.


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## MorpheusPA (Apr 10, 2015)

Susie said:


> I don't sell my soap, so I would tell everyone.  Repeatedly.  But, yes, I get your point.  Anyone that does sell soap would certainly be wise to keep it a secret.



Maybe, but knowing something exists is already half the battle in figuring it out.

CP soap has so few ingredients that it's not an additive or it'd have to be on the label.  Most techniques--like dehydration, additional heat, moving air, and so on we've tried.

Here, I tend to be in the camp that says she's selling lye-bound and non-zapping but not fully cured soap and mistaking no zap for full cure.


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## coffeetime (Apr 10, 2015)

Wasn't there a soaper on here that was making HP with the addition of sodium lactate to keep it fluid for swirls? Would adding goats milk near the end of HPing create sodium lactate? I don't HP so I don't know.


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## LBussy (Apr 10, 2015)

coffeetime said:


> Wasn't there a soaper on here that was making HP with the addition of sodium lactate to keep it fluid for swirls? Would adding goats milk near the end of HPing create sodium lactate? I don't HP so I don't know.


You'd need to add lactic acid to react with free lye to make sodium lactate.


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## Susie (Apr 10, 2015)

Y'all are missing the point about the hotel...she was able to bring them soap the same day they asked for it.  Wouldn't you need to give HP or CPOP the same 18-24 hours in the mold as CP?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Apr 10, 2015)

That's if she actually did that - which I am beginning to doubt.


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## IrishLass (Apr 10, 2015)

Do what Muskette suggested earlier on page 2 of this thread. Take some of the soap and melt it. You will know immediately if it is MP or not, and that will settle the issue. MP melts smoothly and quick. CP/HP/CPOP does not. She could be making melt and pour from scratch, but if she is, she's left out some very key ingredients on her label.

IrishLass


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## pamielynn (Apr 10, 2015)

JBot - breast milk! In MP.

Admins - let me know if you want me to remove the link: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/09/03/breast-milk-soap/15020677/


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## JBot (Apr 10, 2015)

coffeetime said:


> Wasn't there a soaper on here that was making HP with the addition of sodium lactate to keep it fluid for swirls? Would adding goats milk near the end of HPing create sodium lactate? I don't HP so I don't know.



I do HP almost exclusively.  I use sodium lactate and add liquid oils after the cook, which definitely helps.  It's pretty smooth for HP, but still not quite as smooth as CP.  I had one batch that probably could have passed for CP at first, but the water was so high that it warped horribly during the cure.

If there's a way to make HP look just like CP, really and truly, I sure hope I figure it out.



Susie said:


> Y'all are missing the point about the hotel...she was able to bring them soap the same day they asked for it.  Wouldn't you need to give HP or CPOP the same 18-24 hours in the mold as CP?



I can usually cut my HP as soon as it's cool, which is anywhere from 8 to 12 hours.  But it's nowhere near as hard as it gets while curing.  I would not want to bevel, wrap/label, transport, or really handle it at all at that stage.



IrishLass said:


> Do what Muskette suggested earlier on page 2 of this thread. Take some of the soap and melt it. You will know immediately if it is MP or not, and that will settle the issue. MP melts smoothly and quick. CP/HP/CPOP does not. She could be making melt and pour from scratch, but if she is, she's left out some very key ingredients on her label.
> 
> IrishLass



Exactly.  MP needs some kind of solvent, right?  Like alcohol or glycerin?  I will nuke some tonight and report back!



pamielynn said:


> JBot - breast milk! In MP.



Soaping with body fluids.  Nice.  Yes, I know goat milk is a body fluid too, but it just doesn't generate the same ick factor.


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## Obsidian (Apr 10, 2015)

Susie said:


> Y'all are missing the point about the hotel...she was able to bring them soap the same day they asked for it.  Wouldn't you need to give HP or CPOP the same 18-24 hours in the mold as CP?



Not necessarily. I made a  small batch a couple days ago that I CPOP. It took about 5 hours from the time I poured to the time I cut, I could have cut that time down by putting the gelled soap in the freezer to cool faster.
If she started in the morning, she could have a CPOP soap cut and wrapped by late afternoon.

I remember a video on youtube of a lady slicing and selling fresh HP at a outdoor farmers market. You know that soap wasn't good either but she had no issues selling.


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## biarine (Apr 10, 2015)

When I make my HP soap and I am eager to try ( impatient), I will use a piece but it melt faster than if I will cure it for 4 to 6 weeks or more.


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## MarlinFlake (Apr 11, 2015)

Is it possible that the stench is rancidity?  I know you said there's no DOS, but if the soap already has a muddy yellow color, then how would you be able to tell?  If her main ingredient is soy oil it seems reasonable to expect rancidity.

The way I see it there are two basic possibilities:
1) She is lying.  If that's the case, then why stop at suspecting her of selling MP? If she's lying on her ingredients list then she could be lying about making a soap and delivering it same-day.  Maybe she just had old soap laying around. Maybe she bought someone else's soap and resold it.  The possibilities are unlimited.

2) She's not lying. With that ingredient list she could be doing CPOP, as others have pointed out. I'm pretty new at this, so experienced soapers can correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't hard soap with no zap but bad lather and skin-drying sound like a description of same-day CPOP?  Her "proprietary method" might be as simple as CPOP followed by a couple hours in the freezer.


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## Consuela (Apr 13, 2015)

... have we discovered if it is M&P?

I know that MP doesn't swirl the same as CP.... but I have friends who own a soap company, and their primary production is MP Soaps. And sometimes they get some REALLY nice swirl action..but I mean, that's what _they do_. Only MP... and I think if you're a **** good MP artist, you might be able to make soaps that look like CP?


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## Jstar (Apr 13, 2015)

#1. I think she is lying somewhere.

#2. "Soybean oil, coconut oil, goat's milk, palm oil" You can make an almost 100% Coconut oil soap and it'll get hard as a rock in a matter of hours, no zap, and completely cuttable {in fact, you had BETTER cut it very very soon or you'll get a crumbly brick}...and it'll also be hard to lather and dry your skin. 

My thoughts are, that she is using 50/50 or almost, 50/50 coconut and palm, and SF with soybean. {or thinks she's SF'ing with SB}

#3. I use soybean oil from time to time and thankfully I have not had DOS or rancidity 'yet'.. it doesn't affect my soap at all in a bad way, so I personally dont consider it a 'cheap filler'..some do..but it's whatever floats your boat I guess..LOL


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## JBot (Apr 14, 2015)

I don't think it's MP.  I put a piece in the microwave.  It bubbled and smoked and stunk, but it didn't look anything like the MP I've used.  The stink was really something.  I had to turn my range hood fan on full blast to suck up the smoke, and then I took the bowl outside and left if there for a few hours.

It was odd.  I've nuked my own (not MP) soap before, for just a few seconds, and it started to melt/bubble, but I didn't look or smell like THAT.

"Soybean oil, coconut oil, goat's milk, palm oil."  If she's listing her ingredients from largest amount to smallest amount, then she can't be doing an almost 50/50 coconut/palm mix.  But there's no reason to think she's labeling correctly, considering everything else she's saying/doing.

All I can think is that she's either CPOPing and freezing -- selling uncured soap, essentially --- or just lying about how quickly she can have her soap ready.  The more experience I gain and the more reading I do, the less I believe that there is any such magical process.


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## SoapyWater (Apr 14, 2015)

Can you cure soap in 24hrs. I've been making soap for about 15 years... the answer is no. No you can not cure soap in 24hrs. 

Can you use it? Yes but I advise against it. Although the soap has harden on the outside but if you snap the soap in half it is very soft in the middle. This is because each oil used in the soap is still going through its curing state. Each oil has a different length of time to cure. Olive Oil takes the longest to cure in soap. All oils will be finished with the curing stage at about 4 - 6 weeks depending on your soap making process. Using soap too early can cause irritation to the skin due to active lye in the middle of the soap. It would be a softer soap, very little lather and the soap will dissolve very quick in water.

Now. After 24hrs yes you have soap. The saponification process has completed and you now have soap. That is all that you have.  A good PH for your soap is about 8.5 however 10 is not bad. 

There is no secret. Her secret is that she didn't have an answer so she made something up. The reason why the soap still smells like goat is because the milk is still curing. The scent with eventually fade away. I am certain she does not gel her soaps due to the goats milk. It would over heat and cause it to heat up and turn brown in the soap and smell very odd. When I make Coconut Milk soap I do not insulate my soap. 

I am a deep discount soap maker. I use the bare minimum amount of water for my soap to cure at about 4 weeks. I do test my soap and if I feel that it needs to sit longer I will do so. 

So yes.. no point of over thinking it. She is full of a lot of it.


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## IrishLass (Apr 14, 2015)

SoapyWater said:


> The reason why the soap still smells like goat is because the milk is still curing.


 
According to JBot, though, the soap is many months old now, and she says it still smells just as bad as it did last summer when she bought it.




SoapyWater said:


> I am certain she does not gel her soaps due to the goats milk. It would over heat and cause it to heat up and turn brown in the soap and smell very odd. When I make Coconut Milk soap I do not insulate my soap.


 
I don't rule out the fact that this can happen with insulated milk soaps, but just wanted to interject that it's not a foregone conclusion that it _will_ happen. I (and many others) have been able to achieve the 'impossible' of gelling milk soaps (even 100% milk soaps) without them turning brown or smelling by using the 'split method' of milk soaping.




SoapyWater said:


> There is no secret. Her secret is that she didn't have an answer so she made something up.


 
I do believe you hit the nail right on the head. 


IrishLass


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## Stacyspy (Apr 14, 2015)

*Found this online*

http://frugalfarmwife.com/article/diy-hot-process-soap/

I found this in my travels around the 'net. It seems to say the same thing...that once it's molded, it's good to go. I don't like to say much about folks that blog, but this seems irresponsible to me. She says it's so easy, doesn't seem to give any lye safety warnings, and for a 1 lb. recipe, she cooks it for an hour and a half, because she doesn't want to do a zap test. I mean no offense, but I don't believe this is an accurate article. So, it stands to reason that, if a person read this (or a similar) article, they would believe what was stated, and think this was the way to go.


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## hmlove1218 (Apr 14, 2015)

Oh my gosh, that infuriates me!! She tells them to simply use 6 ounces of liquid, 2 ounces of lye, and a pound of oil. No recipe guide, no mention of SAP values, no mention of a soap calculator.. Someone could get seriously hurt with that advice!


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## Stacyspy (Apr 14, 2015)

hmlove1218 said:


> Oh my gosh, that infuriates me!! She tells them to simply use 6 ounces of liquid, 2 ounces of lye, and a pound of oil. No recipe guide, no mention of SAP values, no mention of a soap calculator.. Someone could get seriously hurt with that advice!



And to mix the lye solution in the crock pot, then add the oils seems very dangerous also. I would worry about splashing, and wouldn't it compromise the crock after being in contact with the lye?


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## SoapyWater (Apr 14, 2015)

IrishLass said:


> According to JBot, though, the soap is many months old now, and she says it still smells just as bad as it did last summer when she bought it.
> LOL well in that case she burned the milk during the process. She must have been impatient to wait... go figure! It will forever smell like burned mess lol
> 
> My question is since I don't milk goats myself... do you have to process the milk first before adding into the soap? Or is it just raw goats milk?
> ...


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## LBussy (Apr 14, 2015)

I firmly believe most soap benefits from a longer cure.  That being said I'm not without experience using soap (shaving soap in this case) and I do have the ability to evaluate the soap critically by virtue of some experience.  Some shavers are perfectly happy using "canned goo"; some have learned that wet shaving (what we broadly call using real soap and real razors) requires a little more careful attention to the software.  Some courageous/idiotic people will take that further and use a straight razor.  This is what separates the men from the boys, and the "artisanal" M&P shaving soap "makers" from the ones that really make a quality product.

I am one of those idiots sliding deadly instruments across my neck on a daily basis.

It takes no time at all to know if a shaving soap protects you or not.  One pass of a straight razor across coarse stubble and tender skin gives you instant feedback - there's no wondering if it was ready or considering if it was drying or not.  It takes a little bit longer to figure out why and much longer to figure out know to make a good soap knowing the first two answers.  I am still somewhere in the middle of the second question after about a year trying.

All THAT to say I make shaving soap that works for me.  Some other people have tried it and they like it.  I know where I place it in relation to some of the commercial soaps, and to the soaps some of the people here make.  I know I can make my soap and use it the next day with no burning or irritation.  It is therefore not "irresponsible" to suggest that a soap may be used 24 hours later.  It is in my experience truthful to say it will get better (declining returns) over time.

This is only true so far as I have tested it - with my process materials and recipe (which I freely share).

It is possible that the mechanics of using shave soap, the somewhat unique formulations, or the way it is removed, can impact the result.  I do think however that I would have noticed if a 24 hour old soap was irritating my skin.  I definitely *have* experienced that from new CP bar soap.

So do I think the person referred to in the OP is lying or uninformed?  Yes.  Do I think there's no way to make a soap that is perfectly acceptable in 24 hours?  I disagree with that.  It's not bar soap, it's not used for washing hands, it's not swirled or even remotely pretty, but it is possible to achieve acceptable results as I've lined out here.


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## JBot (Apr 14, 2015)

I totally see what you're saying, Lee!  My own HP is perfectly SAFE to use after 24 hours, often less; mine's just not very nice at that age.  But since I've noticed that some of my batches are better (or less lousy) than others when they're fresh, I do think there is a range of quality among soaps that are safe/zap-free but still very new.

Still wouldn't sell mine at that stage, though.  When I first started making HP I was perfectly happy using it right away.  But once I experienced the difference after a good cure, I stopped using the new stuff.  I still do a test-wash when I unmold it, and periodically while it's curing, but I won't use it routinely until it's at least 6 weeks old.


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## Susie (Apr 14, 2015)

Stacyspy said:


> And to mix the lye solution in the crock pot, then add the oils seems very dangerous also. I would worry about splashing, and wouldn't it compromise the crock after being in contact with the lye?



No, lye does not hurt crock pots if they are properly glazed.  I use mine to make liquid soap in regularly and use it to make NaOH soap in if I am making  a larger batch.  I don't use that crock pot for food simply because it is a very old one(1986) and the crock does not come out of the electrical base, so it is not as user friendly for food as the new one.


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## LBussy (Apr 14, 2015)

JBot said:


> I totally see what you're saying, Lee!  My own HP is perfectly SAFE to use after 24 hours, often less; mine's just not very nice at that age.  But since I've noticed that some of my batches are better (or less lousy) than others when they're fresh, I do think there is a range of quality among soaps that are safe/zap-free but still very new.
> 
> Still wouldn't sell mine at that stage, though.  When I first started making HP I was perfectly happy using it right away.  But once I experienced the difference after a good cure, I stopped using the new stuff.  I still do a test-wash when I unmold it, and periodically while it's curing, but I won't use it routinely until it's at least 6 weeks old.


If I were selling soap, I would definitely adhere to a cure period.  I wish there was a way to quantitatively determine the "cure" because I do believe there is a declining return on investment.   

I have no issue giving away shave soap to friends after a couple weeks, or suggesting they let it sit that long.  I also have no issue shaving with my soaps 24 hours later for a period of several weeks.  Because of that I have an intimate feel for how it matures and behaves over time.  Again, one application, one recipe, one very regimented process, one man, so YMMV and all that.


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## Trix (Apr 17, 2015)

such I can't get this thread of my mind, and presuming she is telling the truth, is it possible she does her own melt and pour like this South African company does?

http:\\www.soapbarn.co.za/book-farmhouse.htm

 In which case her ingredient list was not in the correct order. Of course such she runs it as a business (the lady referred to in the OP) one can also presume she'd have extra soap in any case in case something went wrong or an 'emergency' order was placed...


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## LBussy (Apr 17, 2015)

Trix said:


> such I can't get this thread of my mind, and presuming she is telling the truth, is it possible she does her own melt and pour like this South African company does?


Yeah they say:

• Our soap is chemical free – made only with coconut oil and clay.
• Our soap has no added chemicals and is SLES free.

Horsehockey!


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## not_ally (Apr 17, 2015)

It is a little funny, we are preaching to the converted here.  Ie; mostly a bunch of soap nuts who more or less agree with each other.  I just hope people who  are really truly new and have not done much research come here and are willing to get/accept good advice from those who have time under their belts and are are willing to offer it. 

And not immediately start selling soap that will burn, um, private bits!


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## LBussy (Apr 17, 2015)

not_ally said:


> And not immediately start selling soap that will burn, um, private bits!


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## topofmurrayhill (Apr 17, 2015)

hmlove1218 said:


> Oh my gosh, that infuriates me!! She tells them to simply use 6 ounces of liquid, 2 ounces of lye, and a pound of oil. No recipe guide, no mention of SAP values, no mention of a soap calculator.. Someone could get seriously hurt with that advice!



Let's remember that people have been making soap for many lifetimes before us snobby scientific types came along.  Let's not attack less sophisticated approaches by pure reflex. These particular amounts that you highlighted are 100% safe. Nobody could possibly get seriously hurt using those amounts.


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## Susie (Apr 17, 2015)

topofmurrayhill said:


> Nobody could possibly get seriously hurt using those amounts.



Sure they could.  Never once does she even suggest gloves or goggles.

http://frugalfarmwife.com/article/diy-hot-process-soap/


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## kchaystack (Apr 17, 2015)

Um...  Yeah it does not take much lye to get a burn or damage your eye if an accident happens.  Those 'old time' techniques didn't have the high grade chemicals we do today - so it is apples and oranges.


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## DeeAnna (Apr 17, 2015)

"...6 ounces of liquid, 2 ounces of lye, and a pound of oil..."
"...Nobody could possibly get seriously hurt using those amounts...."

The water to lye ratio in this recipe is 4:1 which will make a high water soap that can separate in the mold and/or may be overly soft in the mold. Also the implied saponification value of that pound of oil and 2 ounces of lye is 0.125, which is very low for coconut, palm kernel, and babassu oils and below the sap values for most of the other typical soaping fats. So, yeah, you're probably right in saying that particular soap recipe won't hurt anyone, Murray, but I do believe this recipe could easily make an overly superfatted, soft soap that might be not very nice to use. 

My grandmother used those "less sophisticated approaches" you mention to make her soap, because she had no other alternative. Her lack of ability to control the quality of her soap meant the family didn't use her handcrafted soap for bathing, only for laundry, because her soap was lye heavy and harsh. I don't think it's snobby at all to analyze these informal recipes and find them wanting. My grandmother knew her recipe was less than the best, and she would have leaped at the chance to make better soap. She was a thrifty do-it-yourself woman who would rather not have spent her pennies to buy Palmolive.


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## topofmurrayhill (Apr 18, 2015)

Let's be realistic about how we sound to some people. I don't mean it's literally snobby. I was the proofreader for Scientific Soapmaking, so that is my bent as well.

As you observed, the 2 oz is a bit of a lye discount even for a low SAP oil. Hence it is safe. I considered that the 25% lye concentration has a good risk of separation in CP, but I believe her soap was cooked.

Of course such a person could learn a lot in a place like this, but I've seen more than one driven off by overly righteous crafters, so I thought I'd point out the reflexive reaction someone had to that recipe being dangerous not being run through a lye calculator. As we see, it is not.


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## not_ally (Apr 18, 2015)

Murray, I really like your posts.  I think you are very smart, and probably a great soapmaker.  But for those of us who are still starting to figure it out, do you not think it is better to use the calcs and err on the side of caution?  I do, and still end up with lots of mistakes, but  am not selling them.  I think that was the part of the initial post that bothered me, the idea that someone would sell something that was ostenstibly instantly cured.


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## Susie (Apr 18, 2015)

Lots of us started with bad "recipes".  We learned better.  So will others if they want to make better soap than that.  Or they will go away convinced that handmade soap is inherently "bad".


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## topofmurrayhill (Apr 18, 2015)

Hi! Most people just shorten it to Top. I'm not the "Murray" type. ;-)


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## topofmurrayhill (Apr 18, 2015)

not_ally said:


> Murray, I really like your posts.  I think you are very smart, and probably a great soapmaker.  But for those of us who are still starting to figure it out, do you not think it is better to use the calcs and err on the side of caution?  I do, and still end up with lots of mistakes, but  am not selling them.  I think that was the part of the initial post that bothered me, the idea that someone would sell something that was ostenstibly instantly cured.



And yes, I think you should emulate the people here, not the insta-cured stinky goat or YouTube or blog people. This is where it's at. For us it's lye calculators all the way. And yay for brunettes.

People we find online get ridiculed on a regular basis. It just seemed ironic that the person knew that 2 oz NaOH  would be safe with 1 lb of any oil, while someone here thought it was dangerous. That advice is crude but not ignorant.


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## JBot (Apr 18, 2015)

. . .brunettes?

Have no clue what you mean, but I'm a brunette, so yay me!  Unless the fact that I don't get it means I'm having a blonde moment?  Hmm, maybe I do get it.

(No offense to blondes.  Some of my best friends are blonde!) :-D


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## hmlove1218 (Apr 18, 2015)

topofmurrayhill said:


> People we find online get ridiculed on a regular basis. It just seemed ironic that the person knew that 2 oz NaOH  would be safe with 1 lb of any oil, while someone here thought it was dangerous. That advice is crude but not ignorant.



I'm not appreciating the tone in which you keep referring to my comment.. I hope I'm just reading it wrong.

Sure, maybe THAT recipe is safe no matter what oil you use, but the blogger still makes no mentions of how every recipe needs to be run through a lye calc. So say someone takes her method, finds a properly calculated recipe, but decides to switch out a few oils without figuring the new lye amount.  They make the soap and it burns them and they have no clue why the new recipe didn't work.

That article is dangerous because it doesn't educate.


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## Trix (Apr 18, 2015)

LBussy said:


> Yeah they say:
> 
> • Our soap is chemical free – made only with coconut oil and clay.
> • Our soap has no added chemicals and is SLES free.
> ...



True, a reminder not everything on the labels is true (the high coconut oil content and marketed towards body use is already a tell tale sign of this..lspecially tne baby product
)
But that also ppl do all kind of M&P bases, and I imagine a piece of this would also melt in the strange way the OP described  the other soap did once put in a microwave.

The only reason I feel that lady was able to deliver on the same day was because she already had some lying around...


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## topofmurrayhill (Apr 18, 2015)

JBot said:


> . . .brunettes?
> 
> Have no clue what you mean, but I'm a brunette, so yay me!  Unless the fact that I don't get it means I'm having a blonde moment?  Hmm, maybe I do get it.
> 
> (No offense to blondes.  Some of my best friends are blonde!) :-D



Lol, not_ally joked about hair color in another topic, so I was just getting a little more mileage out of it.


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## topofmurrayhill (Apr 18, 2015)

hmlove1218 said:


> I'm not appreciating the tone in which you keep referring to my comment.. I hope I'm just reading it wrong.
> 
> Sure, maybe THAT recipe is safe no matter what oil you use, but the blogger still makes no mentions of how every recipe needs to be run through a lye calc. So say someone takes her method, finds a properly calculated recipe, but decides to switch out a few oils without figuring the new lye amount.  They make the soap and it burns them and they have no clue why the new recipe didn't work.
> 
> That article is dangerous because it doesn't educate.



My apologies, I didn't intend any offense.

You made a good point earlier about safety info. She should have discussed the lye more, and advised on gloves and eye protection. That's the only part that really concerns me. I appreciate that she wanted to make a simple presentation to encourage people who might never otherwise do it and avoid intimidating them. For some people this is all the information about soap making that they'll need. Others may want to get beyond this recipe or learn how to make better soap. For that they'll have to seek out more info.


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## DeeAnna (Apr 18, 2015)

"...she wanted to make a simple presentation to encourage people who might never otherwise do it and avoid intimidating them...."

TOMH -- As a former community college instructor who taught math and science, I'm all about explaining things simply and clearly to avoid intimidating my quarry, the elusive and wary freshman and sophomore science-and-math o'phobes. But I'm also all about teaching effectively, safely, and accurately. I would not have presented a recipe of that nature, even to a beginning soaper. When someone takes the role of a teacher, one needs to present good ways of working and thinking from the get-go.

"Top" in my world means something that I suspect you are not, so I'm not going there. If you aren't a Murray, then I'll default to TOMH.


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## not_ally (Apr 18, 2015)

DeeAnna, your post made me laugh b/c so many of my friends are gay, so I would use the term advisedly too!  I'm afraid I am going to have to go with TOMH, TOMH.

Edit, JBOT, TOMH was joking about another post where the Gent was talking about soap molecules and how the "boy" molecules gravitated towards the blond "girl" molecules.  That was pretty much all I understood on that thread b/c I am not a science genius like some of you all  Anyway, I jokingly complained about the gentlemen preferring blonds thing, and TOMH stepped up to jokingly defend us brunettes.


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## JBot (Apr 18, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> "Top" in my world means something that I suspect you are not, so I'm not going there. If you aren't a Murray, then I'll default to TOMH.



Oh my!  Can't think of anything clever to say, but couldn't let that go unacknowledged, either. . .



not_ally said:


> Edit, JBOT, TOMH was joking about another post where the Gent was talking about soap molecules and how the "boy" molecules gravitated towards the blond "girl" molecules.



Y'all can feel free to call me Jane!  "JBot" is sort of a joke based on the nickname my husband has among is colleagues.  His first name starts with "I," and they call him I-Bot.

Now I must go hunt for this science-y post about the blonde molecules.  Love that stuff.


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## LBussy (Apr 18, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> "Top" in my world means something that I suspect you are not, so I'm not going there. If you aren't a Murray, then I'll default to TOMH.





not_ally said:


> DeeAnna, your post made me laugh b/c so many of my friends are gay, so I would use the term advisedly too!  I'm afraid I am going to have to go with TOMH, TOMH.


Oh my.   Lots of gay friends and even had a gay roommate and I didn't go there!  

I was think Top as in Top Sergeant "First Sergeant" so I guess the Army has displaced my dirty humor.  Whoodathunkit?

And everyone knows ladies with hair are where it's at!  (Although I am partial to redheads.  I sure wish I would have known how pretty they would be because I'd have been nicer in school. )


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## topofmurrayhill (Apr 18, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> "Top" in my world means something that I suspect you are not, so I'm not going there. If you aren't a Murray, then I'll default to TOMH.



I don't recommend any particular way to shorten it. Top is simply what most people spontaneously choose, but anything is fine except Murray. That's disconcerting because it's a real name but not mine. Even bottom is okay. ;-)


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## not_ally (Apr 18, 2015)

TMOH, no, no, not bottom either   I get why Murray does not work, though, that sounds so much like an old lovely grandfatherly type who does not make soap.  Although that would be good too, if that is who you are.  I am often amused at the fact that sometimes I assume men are women here, or vice versa, and then it becomes clear that they are not.  Board names are very misleading, I have a friend on another board whose name is Pastor Mike.  Before we exchanged emails I imagined him as a compassionate, married minister with a bunch of kids, station wagons, and a human flock.  The compassionate and dogs part was right, the rest pretty much completely removed from his real self!  I like the surprises.

"I guess the Army has displaced my dirty humor.  Whoodathunkit?"  Not me, Lee!  Armed forces guys are usually pretty respectful and polite around women (or at least me, maybe b/c I never served w/them) but I guess I thought they were worse than the rest of us generally, you know a bunch of guys together.  Even though I admit, I have quite the potty mouth at times, I can curse like a sailor if there is no one around to be offended.


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## topofmurrayhill (Apr 18, 2015)

not_ally said:


> TMOH, no, no, not bottom either   I get why Murray does not work, though, that sounds so much like an old lovely grandfatherly type who does not make soap.



In contrast, I am uber-cool. ;-)


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## not_ally (Apr 18, 2015)

I suspected, that TMOH!  I am too, at least in my own mind ).  Effed up in many, many ways but still cool on the outside.  Wait, that does not seem so good.


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## IrishLass (Apr 18, 2015)

topofmurrayhill said:


> I don't recommend any particular way to shorten it. Top is simply what most people spontaneously choose, but anything is fine except Murray. That's disconcerting because it's a real name but not mine. Even bottom is okay. ;-)


 
I am very tempted to call you Marvin after your chosen avatar.  (I've always loved Marvin the Martian.)


IrishLass


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## topofmurrayhill (Apr 18, 2015)

IrishLass said:


> I am very tempted to call you Marvin after your chosen avatar.  (I've always loved Marvin the Martian.)



Begging for mercy makes me very ANGRY!


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## LBussy (Apr 19, 2015)

Where's the KaBoom?


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## topofmurrayhill (Apr 19, 2015)

LBussy said:


> Where's the KaBoom?



There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom!



not_ally said:


> I suspected, that TMOH!  I am too, at least in my own mind ).  Effed up in many, many ways but still cool on the outside.  Wait, that does not seem so good.



No, that's good. Part of the cool factor.


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## Milagrito (Mar 27, 2019)

[QUOTE = "JBot, post: 507469, miembro: 18427"] El verano pasado, mientras estaba comprando con entusiasmo el jabón artesanal pero aún no había considerado hacerlo, tuve una conversación interesante con un artesano local. Ella vende en varios de los mercados de agricultores en el área y parece tener un negocio considerable. Ella hace jabón de leche de cabra con leche fresca de sus propias cabras, y creo que es una ocupación de tiempo completo para ella y su familia.

Ella era lo suficientemente amigable, y parece que ella sabe lo que está haciendo. (Me sorprendió mucho cuando un cliente le preguntó si su jabón tiene un "pH balanceado", y escuché por casualidad su respuesta: "Sí, ¡está equilibrado a un pH de 10!"). Dijo varias otras cosas que me llevan a creer que tiene Un sólido conocimiento de la química del jabón.

Basado en la apariencia del jabón (textura, remolinos, etc.) estoy bastante seguro de que es un proceso frío. Pero cuando le pregunté por cuánto tiempo lo curó, dijo que usa un "proceso patentado" que le permite a su jabón estar listo para su venta en tan solo 24 horas. En ese momento sabía muy poco sobre la fabricación de jabón y no tenía idea de lo absurdo que sonaba, así que, por supuesto, quedé muy impresionado. Ella dijo que es una técnica que ha desarrollado con el tiempo, pero obviamente no quería decir más, y no la presioné. Ella me contó una historia sobre cómo un hotel de especialidades local que usa su jabón tenía algún tipo de inventario de emergencia, y pudo hacer y entregar el jabón ese mismo día. Estoy familiarizado con el hotel, y los otros detalles de su historia eran totalmente creíbles, así que no estoy seguro de qué pensar.

I’ve been wondering about it every since.  What could she possibly be doing?!  The swirls are too wispy and the soap is too smooth for it to be HP, and besides, HP needs to cure just like CP.  It’s not MP.  I don’t think she was lying, and everything else she said to me that day has turned out to be true, but I just cannot see how it’s possible to instantly cure CP.

There aren’t very many things that only ONE person has thought of, and considering how many people have been making soap for how many years, I would think that if such a process existed, other people would have “discovered” it, too.  (Has anybody here tried putting fresh CP in an industrial dehydrator?)

What do you all think?  Does she have a magical trick, or is she blowing smoke?

She did say one thing that seemed odd in retrospect.  I bought a bunch of her soap, and when I asked her about storing it, she said it would keep indefinitely, except that the scent might fade.  To preserve the scent, she recommended storing them in plastic bags or saran wrap.  Yikes!  I cut up some of the bars stored them in various ways: unwrapped, paper-wrapped, cloth-wrapped, saran-wrapped, plastic-bagged, Glad Cling-Wrapped, wax paper-wrapped, parchment paper-wrapped, and Food Saver-sealed in airtight plastic.  Eventually I’ll open them up to evaluate their condition and report back.

I ultimately wasn’t crazy about her soap when I used it.  It didn’t have a great lather, it dried out my skin, it smelled “goat-y” to me, and her other ingredients struck me as very cheap.  But that’s all personal preference.  Objectively her soap seems just fine, and lots of people appear to like it.[/QUOTE]

Hi all!!! reactive this post that is 2015 because it kills me the curiosity !!!!!, in my case is not a mysterious lady who claims to have secret formula but courses that are being promoted for more than a year in Mexico and Spain, the truth is that I was totally skeptical first, but then I heard comments such as they are at 24 hours as if they had been after 40 days of curing, Can it be ????? or is it a total deception ?????, advertising says
 "It is an EXCLUSIVE and REVOLUTIONARY course of saponified cold soaps READY IN 24 HOURS Learn how to make saponified cold soaps without curing process, ready to use in 24 HOURS"
(the exclusive and revolutionary thing killed me) Now, I wrote to the page asking how they do it (jaaaaaaa nooo, nor such brazenness), I asked moderately if it is a formula or if it is a method, and they answered me that "it is a way Finally, I want to know if any of you know something and if so, what experiences and opinions you have had ... Affectionate greetings


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