# Hair Conditioner for use after medicated shampoo



## beckster51 (Dec 7, 2019)

I am posting this to see if anyone has a good experience with conditioner, either DIY or bought, for use after using shampoo to treat seborrheic dermatitis on the scalp.  I must use these types of shampoos almost exclusively, and they leave my very thin hair dry and lank, especially in the winter.  Every conditioner I have ever tried has aggravated my dermatitis and made my scalp feel greasy or itchy.  Anyone have any ideas or good experiences?


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## Obsidian (Dec 7, 2019)

I have seborrheic dermatitis too and conditioner is absolutely terrible. I have bleached hair though and have to use something.

Pantene foam conditioner is really light and rinses clean, one of the only I can use. If your hair is long, try to apply conditioner only to the length.

Cantu detangling spray for kids also works really well and can be carefully applied to keep it off the scalp.

What kind of shampoo are you using and do you use it? You shouldn't have to use it exclusively.
I apply mine and let it sit for 10-15 minutes to really work. A couple treatments gets things mostly under control.


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## beckster51 (Dec 7, 2019)

Thanks, Obsidian!  I thought you had mentioned you also have this problem.  I use selenium shampoos (various, Head and Shoulders, Selsun Blue), and I also occasionally use some shampoos with salicylic acid to remove flakes.  I don't wash my hair every day since my scalp and hair are also very dry before shampooing.  I have really short hair, so it is difficult to use conditioner only on the hair and not the scalp.  I have found a shampoo that really makes my hair look thicker, shiny, and conditioned, but I don't use it often because it aggravates my dermatitis a bit, not a lot, but I imagine it would if I used it more than once every week of so.  It is Triple Moisture by Neutrogena.  It's hard to find, and I bought it online after reading about it on some forum.

I really appreciate your suggestions!  I will look for both of these products.  I really hate that my hair looks like straw most of the time.


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## Obsidian (Dec 7, 2019)

My hair is short too but I'm trying to grow it. I have to wash every day or 2, any longer I'll flare up.

Most days I just use suave daily clarifying, it doesn't have cones or oils which can really irritate SD.
I used to use a prescription selenium shampoo but my insurance won't cover it anymore.

I've been using head and shoulders refresh for men. It has pyrithione zinc 1% and it seems to work better then selenium. Its also minty and really feels nice on a irritated scalp.


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## beckster51 (Dec 7, 2019)

I used H&S for a while, but it did not seem to work as well as the selenium preparations for me.  But I have found that my body is an ever evolving situation, so I may try the H&S for men.   The minty nature of the shampoo sounds wonderful.  I have to wash my hair every couple of days to avoid flares.  Again, thanks for your help.


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## earlene (Dec 7, 2019)

I just don't use any conditioner at all.  I haven't for years because they all gave me red blotchy skin every single time I ever used any one of them, so I just haven't ever tried again for the past few decades.

I do use a medicated shampoo on my scalp and sometimes if I leave it on for an extended period (a method recommended by my doctor) it is really hard to rinse it well enough to make my hair feel soft.  So what I have done is simply use a mild regular shampoo to do a second wash.  That leaves my hair feeling softer and I don't have to mess with trying to find a conditioner that won't turn my face into a blotchy red mess.


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## beckster51 (Dec 7, 2019)

Well, that's a thought.  I had not thought about using a second shampoo.  I will consider this, Earlene, thanks!


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## Obsidian (Dec 7, 2019)

I sometimes use a second shampoo too. I try to just wash the hair and not scrub my scalp.


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## beckster51 (Dec 7, 2019)

See?  I knew you guys would have suggestions.  Thank you.  I was stuck and couldn't figure out what else to try.  I know this isn't a big deal in the greater scheme of things, but it's a daily aggravation.


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## Kcryss (Dec 11, 2019)

I might be a couple days late to this discussion, but wanted to share that I finally just stopped using conditioners and started using coconut oil instead. Just rub a tiny bit into the palms of your hands after towel drying hair then lightly touch/scrunch onto hair ends. Soaks in quickly and leaves my hair soft and manageable without weighing it down. I have baby fine hair so I use very little.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 11, 2019)

I second @Chris Veer's suggestion about using a teeny tiny amount of a light oil that doesn't aggravate the skin. 

I've found you can do the same thing with a light hand or body lotion, if you have a lotion that your skin is okay with. 

I don't have dermatitis (I feel bad for all of you who do!), but some hair care products make my scalp itchy. I more often than not use Chris's suggestion with a compatible oil or lotion.


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## beckster51 (Dec 11, 2019)

My hair is fine and thin like a baby's, no exaggeration.  I have tried a teeny tiny bit of oil or lotion, but even a whisper of oil makes my hair look more thin, or as my mother used to say, like a cat has been sucking on it.  HA HA  Thank you for the suggestion, but it doesn't work for me.

I went to the drugstore and looked for all 3 products that Obsidian suggested, and they didn't have _any_ of them.  But, I did find a new product from H&S that I used last night, and I really like it.  They are now making a conditioner to match a new shampoo.  I did not buy the shampoo because I have plenty.  The conditioner is called RE-fresh Scalp Care and Conditioner, and it looks like this:







It is very light, contains 2% salicylic acid, and it left my hair shiny, and with increased volume.  No more straw hair!  So far, so good, no flare.  We shall see over time, I guess.   Thanks, Obsidian, for suggesting those products or I would never have found this.  I will still look out for the ones you suggested.  Thanks everyone, I appreciate your assist!


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## Obsidian (Dec 11, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> I second @Chris Veer's suggestion about using a teeny tiny amount of a light oil that doesn't aggravate the skin.
> 
> I've found you can do the same thing with a light hand or body lotion, if you have a lotion that your skin is okay with.
> 
> I don't have dermatitis (I feel bad for all of you who do!), but some hair care products make my scalp itchy. I more often than not use Chris's suggestion with a compatible oil or lotion.



The fungus that causes seborrheic dermatitis feeds on oil. Oiling hair in this case is absolutely the wrong thing to.

Unfortunately when you have SD, its a delicate balancing act between keeping the scalp happy and keeping hair moisturized.

@beckster51 so glad you found something that is working, lets hope it continues. I'm going to try the trader joes tea tree shampoo and conditioner. They don't have any cones, quats or polymers, the things that really irritate my scalp.

I would love to find a conditioner I can use ever wash. Ever the light foam conditioner can cause issues if I use it every time.


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## beckster51 (Dec 11, 2019)

Let me know how you like the TJ's products, and I will let you know how this conditioner works out.  Maybe both of us will find something that works.  Wouldn't that be terrific!?


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## DeeAnna (Dec 11, 2019)

I'm not educated on seborrheic dermatitis, so my apologies for not understanding what a person with SD needs to be careful about. I'll just keep my mouth shut and learn from here on.


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## beckster51 (Dec 11, 2019)

No, no, don't do that.  All suggestions are welcome!


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## DeeAnna (Dec 11, 2019)

On a re-read, my last post sounded grumpy. It's been a frustrating day at work, and I'm not choosing my words very well here.

A more diplomatic try -- I realize I don't know much about SD and I want to learn, so I'll just quietly follow along with your conversation.

Thanks for the encouragement, @beckster51. 'Preciate that.


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## Obsidian (Dec 11, 2019)

@DeeAnna no worries, its not something the average person knows about. I didn't know about oil for years after I was diagnosed. Wasn't until I joined a hair forum that I really learned about the condition.

Your input is always appreciated and for a average person, hair oiling is a great idea.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 11, 2019)

Okay, so lemme ask a newbie question... I know many conditioners have at least a little bit of oil in them, so do you try to find conditioners that are specifically labeled oil free? Or do other ingredients in conditioner also cause trouble?

I know you can use just BTMS and water to make a very simple oil-free hair conditioner. Would this type of conditioner be an option to try?


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## beckster51 (Dec 11, 2019)

I am not familiar with BTMS, I don't think.  Educate me, DeeAnna, as you usually do.


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## justjacqui (Dec 11, 2019)

Here is some information for anyone who is interested on why oils aren't a great idea for treating Seborrheic Dermatitis. 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/1308503


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## Obsidian (Dec 12, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Okay, so lemme ask a newbie question... I know many conditioners have at least a little bit of oil in them, so do you try to find conditioners that are specifically labeled oil free? Or do other ingredients in conditioner also cause trouble?
> 
> I know you can use just BTMS and water to make a very simple oil-free hair conditioner. Would this type of conditioner be an option to try?



I have tried to find oil free conditioners but that doesn't seem to help in my case. Its the heavier ingredients that coat the hair and skin that give me the most trouble.

Cones of all kinds are awful, even the water soluble ones. Polyquats seem to be a issue too but I haven't narrowed which ones.

I don't think any of the conditioners I've tried contains BTMS but I'm not sure. I've been a bit afraid to try it, I've had such bad luck with new ingredients. I suppose I should try though.
Maybe I could find a sample size on Amazon.

The new conditioner I'm getting today is mostly oils and cetyl alcohol. It has great reviews about being lightweight so I'm hoping it rinses clean.
Once I grow out the bleach damage, I'm done with conditioner all together.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 12, 2019)

BTMS is an emulsifier, but it is also a "substantive" material, which is a fancy way of saying BTMS is able to chemically stick to hair. 

When I started to make my own hair conditioner, my first batch or two were essentially BTMS and water. And then I got sucked into the "add lots of fancy additives to make it even better" mindset. 

Some of these additives have proved to be helpful to my scalp and hair, but the BTMS-only conditioner wasn't too bad. It is very light on my fine, wavy hair.

A refinement of this super simple BTMS and water recipe would be to also include a little cetyl alcohol as a thickener. That will make the emulsion a little more stable and smooth out the consistency. But just BTMS + water will work. 

I'm not mentioning preservative in my comments ^^ but I always also use a preservative.


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## cmzaha (Dec 12, 2019)

Obsidian, what about a conditioner similiar to my oil-free lotion using BTMS 50, no IPM a low percentage of silicone to add a little slip and shine with the BTMS 50?

I also do best with pyrithione zinc 1% instead of Selenium-based when my eczema flares on my scalp. Granted I do not have the oil issue but do have to be careful what I use on my scalp.

ETA, should have read Obsidian's answer before asking the above question.  What about a touch of IPM which is a synthetic Oil with BTMS? Maybe I will do some playing in the next week or so.


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## Obsidian (Dec 12, 2019)

@cmzaha I was actually wondering the same thing just yesterday. I plan on trying the lotion as a leave in first, just to see how it feels in the hair.
I have to wait until this flare is healed though, guess its time to break out the steroids.

I really do think the problem is just inherent to conditioner. Its made to coat hair, it also coats skin and thats the cause of my issues.

I can use cones if they are way down on the list and I rinse it out quickly but I have to clarify my scalp almost every wash.

I've never tried IPM, in fact I've never tried any kind of handmade hair product but I'm willing to try almost anything. You never know when I'll come across the perfect product.


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## beckster51 (Dec 12, 2019)

So far my new conditioner has not caused a flare.  It is silicone free and paraben free.  Like Obsidian, I cannot use anything with silicone, but I am not familiar with the other "cones".   I also cannot use anything on my hair with any oils in it.  I have no idea about BTMS or IPM since I have never used either to my knowledge.  I think this conditioner may work better for me because of the salicylic acid content.  I think that it most likely has a clarifying effect on the scalp.  I am due to wash my hair tonight, and I will use it again and report back.  It's nice to have normal looking hair for a change without itching, scaling and hot, red thick blotches all over my scalp.  My hair is so thin, the redness is usually visible, at least to me.  I do try to remember that other people are not "studying" my scalp like I do.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 12, 2019)

Maybe they're not, but you are!  Anything that makes you less self conscious, more comfortable, and more confident is a good thing.


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## Dahila (Dec 12, 2019)

BMTS-50 inci name; Behentrimonium methosulfate (and) Cetyl Alcohol (and) Butylene Glycol
behentrimonium methosulfate 45 - 60%
cetyl alcohol 35 - 40%
butylene glycol 5 - 10%
Catonic


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## beckster51 (Dec 12, 2019)

Exactly!  Thanks for understanding!


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## Obsidian (Dec 14, 2019)

Well, my testing of the trader joes tea tree products is a bust. They don't irritate my scalp which is great but they leave my hair a frizzy, dry mess. It actually is better without any conditioner then this stuff.


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## beckster51 (Dec 14, 2019)

Obsidian said:


> Well, my testing of the trader joes tea tree products is a bust. They don't irritate my scalp which is great but they leave my hair a frizzy, dry mess. It actually is better without any conditioner then this stuff.



Well, that is a bummer, Obsidian.  I can't use many products with tea tree oil.  They really dry my skin, scalp, and hair a lot.  I have tried several preparations, and maybe I just haven't found the right one yet with tea tree.  I used the conditioner again last night when I washed my hair, and all is well so far after two uses.  Last night I used a little too much, so my hair is a bit weighed down (my fault), but still no flare, no itchiness, no scale.  I may not be able to use this after every wash, but I will just have to wait and see.  So far, I like it very much.  And calculating how much I use and how big the bottle is, it should last me about 10 years - LOL.


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