# F.O vs E.O



## Permanent Guest (Dec 4, 2009)

Long time lurker here but I have a few questions so I finally signed up.

Anyways  what are the pros\cons of E.O and F.O in soap making and all other BB products.  

And thanks for having me in this wonderful community  (actually I sneaked in)


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## dagmar88 (Dec 4, 2009)

Welcome to the soap making forum!

EO pros:
They're considered natural and some people find that important.
They have an effect on the skin (soothing, anti-bacteria, anti inflametory etc.)

Cons:
You need to do thorough research before using EO's as they can be harmful.
A lot of fragrances can not be substracted from the actual substance (strawberry, coca cola, sugar etc)
A lot of a plant material is needed to produce a little bit of EO. This makes EO's expensive.

FO's create the possibility to recreate almost every possible smell without having an effect (aside from people with allergies or sensitivities) on the skin.


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## carebear (Dec 4, 2009)

How about the pro of the FO:
- the variety is vast and someone's done all the blending for you so it's much easier to get a lovely, commercially acceptable scent!
- they have to meet certain regulations (IFRA, RIFM) which means they are less likely (when used as directed) to cause irritation or sensitivity.  EOs are not regulated (in the US)
- they are more stable than many EOs so storing them is easier and they can last longer
- they are often less expensive than EOs

(I use both)


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## honor435 (Dec 4, 2009)

eos have benefits, but not in soap, its washed away. I sell eos they are very useful for many ailments, i just dont waste it in soap.
I love fos, there are thousands of choices, they can dupe so many smells, its amazing, even your favorite perfume( the commonscent.com has over 1200 smells, any perfume dup you could ever think of), i use eos, not much though, just too spendy for me.


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## Permanent Guest (Dec 7, 2009)

honor435 said:
			
		

> eos have benefits, but not in soap, its washed away. I sell eos they are very useful for many ailments, i just dont waste it in soap.
> I love fos, there are thousands of choices, they can dupe so many smells, its amazing, even your favorite perfume( the commonscent.com has over 1200 smells, any perfume dup you could ever think of), i use eos, not much though, just too spendy for me.



E.O's can enter your blood stream through your nasal cavities so if you can smell it, it has benefits.  So not all is washed down the drain,  However yes they are expensive and its hard to find that perfect blend.  But for a simple lavender or bergamont soap I think the E.O's would be better than F.O's  (plus it looks better on the ingredient list)  

So in short I guess their is no perfect answer, it all depends on what you are trying to create.


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## dagmar88 (Dec 7, 2009)

:wink: In the end it all comes down to your personal preferences.


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## honor435 (Dec 7, 2009)

tend to disagree that eos have benefits after the lye monster.


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## dagmar88 (Dec 7, 2009)

Permanent Guest said:
			
		

> Anyways  what are the pros\cons of E.O and F.O in soap making *and all other BB products*.



Yes, that is questionable; but this question didn't concern just soap.


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## Permanent Guest (Dec 17, 2009)

So if E.O is eaten by the lye monster then I know not to add it to CP soaps, maybe a rebatch.  All other products I dont see a problem so far as you keep it below 2%, even though I typically use 1% or less.  

What are the effects of F.O on the skin?  Are they skin irritants or neutral?  I have never used an F.O before and am curious about them.


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## dagmar88 (Dec 17, 2009)

Permanent Guest said:
			
		

> So if E.O is eaten by the lye monster then I know not to add it to CP soaps, maybe a rebatch.



EO is often used to scent soap, both HP & CP. Everyone has their own feelings on EO's being beneficial in soap or other rinse off products.



			
				Permanent Guest said:
			
		

> All other products I dont see a problem so far as you keep it below 2%, even though I typically use 1% or less.



That's why you really have to look into EO's before using them; there are EO's that can be irritating the skin at that amount, are phototoxic and can be harmfull to pregnant woman and babies of breastfeeding mothers.



			
				Permanent Guest said:
			
		

> What are the effects of F.O on the skin?  Are they skin irritants or neutral?  I have never used an F.O before and am curious about them.



Yes, they can irritate the skin in larger amounts. That's why FO sellers should always say what % to use as a maximum. Some FO's do contain EO's as well.


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## honor435 (Dec 17, 2009)

I love fos, there are so many to chose from, ive only had 2 reactions to a fo, cin( that was supossed to be skin safe) and orange( made me get a rash) If you need rec to places that have good fos, ask us! I like peakcandles( make sure they are body safe, they make a lot for candles), natures garden, bitter creek, elementsbath and bady, wsp(wholesale supplies plus) good luck and have fun, its an addiction.


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## carebear (Dec 17, 2009)

Permanent Guest said:
			
		

> So if E.O is eaten by the lye monster then I know not to add it to CP soaps, maybe a rebatch.  All other products I dont see a problem so far as you keep it below 2%, even though I typically use 1% or less.
> 
> What are the effects of F.O on the skin?  Are they skin irritants or neutral?  I have never used an F.O before and am curious about them.



I don't see these statements as accurate.

Some EOs can be very benign, others irritants or worse.  The level at which they can safely be used varies dramatically with the EO.  Some cannot be used at all - others you may dunk yourself in.  And everything in between.

FOs are formulated based on strict rules from IFRA and RIFM.  When used according to the manufacturer's recommendations they are "neutral"  as in they should not cause irritation and are not toxic in the approved end use up the the approved maximum level.  Some are formulated to be used in candles - and thus cannot, when burned, form dangerous chemicals.  Others are approved for use on skin - in only wash off products or in wash off and leave on products (think soap v lotion).  Some may meet requirements for all 3.  You need to know the FO with which you are working.

EOs have the same limitations IN REALITY, but since they are not regulated in the US (except when as components of an FO) there are more likely to be misused and abused.

In Europe there ARE limits to their use.


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## Best Natural Soap (Jul 17, 2010)

I use EO's - have only used FO's a couple times- but the reason for me using the EO's is because I like the adventure of trying to find scents and colors with natural things. I do get disappointed when a scent doesn't last, or when it accelerates trace too much- but, I'm not dead yet (!) so I'll have plenty of opportunities to try again. 

I think with FO's, it's more of a sure thing- but even they have their issues. As far as EO's/FO's being better for skin than the other?? I would bet most of the effect of an EO gets lost when you react it with lye. Lye is pretty harsh stuff, and EO's can be pretty fragile. Anyone using EO's and selling them under the guise of "This soap will RELAX you, or this soap will IMPROVE YOUR MEMORY" is stepping into FDA Drug land-- not a place I want to go. If you can't prove your soap does it, don't state it. 

And, it's soap, afterall. Isn't it meant to clean you? And smell good? And maybe even look attractive? 
If I can accomplish all of that- I'm a happy soapie.


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## rubyslippers (Jul 17, 2010)

dagmar88 said:
			
		

> Welcome to the soap making forum!
> 
> EO pros:
> They're considered natural and some people find that important.
> ...



Very well said dagmar!


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## fasanis100 (Jul 17, 2010)

When I started, I tried EOs, mainly because I was going for the "all natural" marketing campaign in my soaps.  After a few tries I switched to FOs.  The two things I did not like about EOs were the high prices which cut too much on my profits, and the fact that most of them did not last enough.  So it really did not make any business sense to me using EOs.


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## Sunny (Jul 25, 2010)

I guess that depends where you buy them from, if I can get EO's or blends for $3 or $4 an ounce I will use them in soap, for the more expensive ones it may not be practical. But typically you get 1 ounce of FO for $2-3 and use 1 oz ppo, and with eo's it seems you can use less. I think they are fine to use cost-wise and prefer eo scented soap.


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## agriffin (Jul 26, 2010)

You can still smell the EO after the lye monster therefore it still has aromatherapy benefits which is why most people use EO's.  I'm not certain that anti-bacterial type properties such as in tea tree survive.  But you do still get the aromatherapy benefits.

If you are selling your soap you also get the label appeal.  Many people educate themselves when it comes to natural soap and they will just buy EOs.  

If you use EOs get training and educate yourself as they can be dangerous to use.

I personally use both as I have some customers who could care less if the scent is EO or FO and I have some customers who specifically ask for EO's.


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## Best Natural Soap (Jul 26, 2010)

I think that's a perfect compromise. You save a bit of money by using the FO's (and get to have fun with the variety of scents!), and you also have the EO's for the purists! 

How does Walmart do so well? It certainly helps that they have a little bit of something for everyone. Not a bad business philosophy.


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## honor435 (Aug 3, 2010)

anyone use lemongrass, do you really need 1oz pp?


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## Sunny (Aug 3, 2010)

honor435 said:
			
		

> anyone use lemongrass, do you really need 1oz pp?




I haven't used it by itself but I would say to go with .5 oz ppo and try that first. Maybe make a smaller than usual batch to try it out and add more if needed.


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## Lindy (Aug 11, 2010)

Essential oils are volatile oils and are very sensitive to heat.  I doubt the therapeutic properties survive the lye monster.  Yes the fragrance remains, but that's not the part of the EO that is therapeutic, other than on an emotional basis, but the same is true of FO's, the fragrance creates an emotional reaction.

Now having said that - I personally can't guarantee that, it's my opinion only.  The only thing I strongly recommend it to understand all the benefits and contraindicators of each essential oil that you want to use.  Essential Oils are basically over the counter meds without any controls for quality, strength, purity, etc.


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## dubnica (Aug 11, 2010)

honor435 said:
			
		

> anyone use lemongrass, do you really need 1oz pp?



I used lemongrass and I used .5oz ppo.


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