# Lotion with preservative has orange spots around the edges - bacteria apparently!



## lunablue (Jul 18, 2017)

So I've just joined here and it looks like a lot of great stuff happening.

I started making lotion last week. Been making CP soap for a few months. So I made the lotion and it turned out great except it apparently has mold growing on it. Yikes! Orange spots around the edges of the tins that are growing. 

I disinfected all my equipment and containers in a bleach bath and dried them with paper towels as directed (1 gallon water with 1 oz. bleach).

Here's the recipe I got off Brambleberry.com for making lotion from scratch:

1.7 oz sweet almond oil
1 oz avocado oil (I used apricot kernel and jojoba, being out of avo oil)
1 oz stearic acid
1.2 oz emulsifying wax
1.2 oz shea butter
18 oz distilled water
.2 oz phenonip
.1 oz fragrance or EO

The directions said to let the lotion cool for 1-2 hours with caps off. I used flat 4 oz tins that have rust resistant coating, not bottles. I ran them all through the bleach bath and dried with paper towels.

Is this the wrong method? Why would I be getting orange spots of mold? Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Thank you!


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## BattleGnome (Jul 18, 2017)

Can you take us through each step that you did for the lotion making? Did you use the microwave or heat/hold? Was your distilled water a fresh bottle or did it sit around? How fresh were your ingredients and what fragrance did you use? How long were your paper towels sitting on the counter before you used them to wipe the jars?

I'll add here that I'm no expert on lotions but the answers to these questions might help someone else with an answer. I bring up the paper towels on the off chance you used the end of the roll and a kid with sticky fingers out their hand on the flat end and accidentally contaminated something


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jul 18, 2017)

Is this the lotion which is currently for sale on your site?  :???:


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## lunablue (Jul 18, 2017)

I actually made 6 batches. The first ones I heated the oils in a container inside a pot of water then added the shea butter after everything melted. The last batches I microwaved, then added the shea butter. 

Some of the distilled water had been opened for soapmaking and some was freshly opened. All other ingredients were bought from reputable suppliers within the last few months.

Paper towels were straight off the roll. No way with the sticky fingers.

Not all of them are affected... at least not yet. Not sure how long it takes for it to show up if it's going to. But it's all started around the inside edges where the tin meets the lotion. Some say to leave the lids off, others say bacteria gets in your lotion if you leave the lids off. I let the last ones cool in a the oven (not turned on) to isolate them more, lids off.


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## lunablue (Jul 18, 2017)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Is this the lotion which is currently for sale on your site?  :???:



Yes, but I've disabled all sales until I figure this out. People were begging me to make lotion. Water-based products are a whole different ballgame.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jul 18, 2017)

That's no reason to sell or even list untested products!  That's just common sense, isn't it?


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## lunablue (Jul 18, 2017)

Yes, you're right. I've taken them off.


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## Kittish (Jul 18, 2017)

Is it possible that the orange spots are rust? Maybe scrape the lotion out of one of the affected tins and see if there's any visible rust spots inside? It's entirely possible that the rust resistant coating on the tins got damaged.

My other thought would be that it's possibly mildew. Orange mildew is pretty much endemic to plumbing, at least in the U.S. It's generally harmless, so people don't notice it much usually. If your tins came into contact with tap water (damp towel, hands still damp after washing, stray drops of water...) then it might be mildew.


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## doriettefarm (Jul 18, 2017)

You could try one of these test kits from Lotioncrafter and possibly figure out what your contaminant is  http://www.lotioncrafter.com/microbial-test-kit-4_pack-lotioncrafter.html


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## dixiedragon (Jul 18, 2017)

I agree that it's rust. Possibly the process of cleaning wiped off the rust-resistant coating?

There's a reason lotion isn't sold in tins.


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## DeeAnna (Jul 18, 2017)

Okay, you gave a rough outline of your method, but you didn't give it in detail. This is not particularly helpful. 

You're focusing on the idea of contamination occurring when you're cooling the product in the container, but that's not a helpful assumption to make if you want US to help you troubleshoot.

So to get the best help, keep your mind open and present the situation without assumptions. Yes, cooling the lotion in an open container MIGHT be the problem, but it might not. Or it might not be the only problem. 

Here's one tidbit that troubles me, for example --

"...The first ones I heated the oils in a container inside a pot of water then added the shea butter after everything melted. The last batches I microwaved, then added the shea butter. ..."

So do you know about doing a proper "heat and hold" method? Did you follow it to the letter? Reason why I ask is that this sentence suggests you did not do "heat and hold" for ALL of your heat tolerant ingredients -- including the water AND shea. The assumption that the water is sanitary might be okay, but how do you KNOW that? If you don't KNOW, don't assume all is well. And the idea that the shea doesn't need sanitizing, frankly, is not a good assumption to make.

Some people can make lotion with success using room temperature ingredients and careful sanitation, but most of us hobbyists are far better off using a "heat and hold" method and following the method to the letter. It's for sanitation as well as for proper emulsification. Don't cut corners with this just because it seems tedious or unnecessary.

Anne Watson has a good book called Smart Lotionmaking. She presents "home" and "pro" methods of lotion making and covers the "heat and hold" process thoroughly. I recommend it.

***

The tin could be causing trouble. Rust resistant only means the tin is coated to prevent rust; it doesn't mean the coating is inert to the lotion ingredients. I'd never use a metal tin for a lotion due to the possible interaction between metals and the lotion.

***

My next comment doesn't specifically relate to your problem, but your use of open containers for an emulsified lotion tells me you haven't done your homework about good product design. An open tin of lotion is a perfect invitation to uncontrollable microbial contamination as the product is used. 

There is a reason why emulsions such as lotions are usually sold in CLOSED bottles with a pump or nozzle dispenser -- this keeps dirty fingers from introducing cooties. Preservatives can do only so much -- you can't challenge any preservative with dirty fingers if you want lasting protection! 

If you are intending to use this for yourself, by all means use whatever container you want and make the lotion however you want to make it. If you intend to sell, do the homework, test your products, get more experience and confidence, and definitely ditch the idea of open containers.


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## cmzaha (Jul 18, 2017)

I would certainly agree that it is rust from the tin. I quit using tins years ago for even anhydrous products because some fragrances and eo's can eat away the coating and turn rusty. I also had it happen with lip balms in slide tins. 

I find it quite disturbing you would make a lotion and turn around and sell it without out proper testing and waiting to see what the lotion will do. Also I never use an open jug of distilled water when making lotions, they are also newly opened then the remainder of the water, if any is left, is saved for soaping. Lotion is quite tricky and many things can go wrong with them, and they can simply be dangerous. I have a shelf full of test lotions and copious notes that I can refer back to if a lotion goes south, and quite a few have. I never take a new lotion recipe out to market under 3-6 months. Learn all you can about preservatives, and they can all work differently. I have one lotion I make that cannot use EDTA since it contains Glyceryl Strearate. I do make a very thick lotion that will not pump and goes in a jar, but it is preserved with a dual preservative system. So you see it takes months to make and test lotions. Also learn what is bug-food in lotions before branching off and adding additives

By the way everyone, my troublesome Evening Primrose lotion is still sitting on the shelf, it never went to market since it bothered me severely with the allergic lotion. It just sits there laughing at me..... Please do not risk customers health selling lotions until you know what you're doing with lotions. There are many suppliers such as Essential by Catalina that make nice lotion bases you can bottle and fragrance.


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## Soapmaker145 (Jul 18, 2017)

lovefromsb said:


> The directions said to let the lotion cool for 1-2 hours with caps off. I used flat 4 oz tins that have rust resistant coating, not bottles. I ran them all through the bleach bath and dried with paper towels.



To add to what everybody else said: what do you think happened to the rust resistant coating when you put it in a bleach bath?  You need to think about the materials you use and the impact of every step of the process on their performance.  The tins were a bad idea for something with high water content and the bleach bath made it worse.


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## lunablue (Jul 18, 2017)

All this information is extremely helpful. I'm going to do my homework thoroughly before attempting this again. I really appreciate the input and am so glad I joined this forum to hear you all weigh in with your expertise. MUCH appreciated!! Thank you.


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## lunablue (Jul 18, 2017)

Did you mean Smart Lotionmaking or is that a different book? Thank you, DeeAnna. All this info is very helpful!



DeeAnna said:


> Okay, you gave a rough outline of your method, but you didn't give it in detail. This is not particularly helpful.
> 
> You're focusing on the idea of contamination occurring when you're cooling the product in the container, but that's not a helpful assumption to make if you want US to help you troubleshoot.
> 
> ...


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## DeeAnna (Jul 18, 2017)

"Smart Lotionmaking"

Yes, that's the one. My apologies for the mistake!

edit: I corrected the error in my earlier post.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jul 18, 2017)

dixiedragon said:


> There's a reason lotion isn't sold in tins.


^^^^^ Ditto. That was my first thought.


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## lunablue (Jul 18, 2017)

No worries, DeeAnna. I've already downloaded it and started checking it out. Thank you!

Yes, live and learn, Zany and dixiedragon...


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## biarine (Jul 19, 2017)

Lotion making is very tricky, I made a lot of lotion over the years and many of them had problems but I never sell mine just personal use. My chemist friend said lotion making is very sensitive and precautions is needed. Here in uk lab testing of lotion making can cost 500 to thousand pounds to check all ingredients.


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## kimvoen (May 14, 2021)

lunablue said:


> So I've just joined here and it looks like a lot of great stuff happening.
> 
> I started making lotion last week. Been making CP soap for a few months. So I made the lotion and it turned out great except it apparently has mold growing on it. Yikes! Orange spots around the edges of the tins that are growing.
> 
> ...


Same thing happened to me.  I used the exact recipe, sanitized everything with bleach and disinfected with alcohol and today, opened a jar and there was this orange mold on the top.  Unfortunately, I didn't catch it before I put it on, hopped in the shower and scrubbed it off.  I looked at other jars that I made, and so far, there hasn't been anything.

Not sure why it would do that.


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## kimvoen (May 14, 2021)

[QUOTE="lunablue said:


> So I've just joined here and it looks like a lot of great stuff happening.
> 
> I started making lotion last week. Been making CP soap for a few months. So I made the lotion and it turned out great except it apparently has mold growing on it. Yikes! Orange spots around the edges of the tins that are growing.
> 
> ...


Same thing happened to me - by the way, I used glass jars.
, post: 655159, member: 23683"]
So I've just joined here and it looks like a lot of great stuff happening.

I started making lotion last week. Been making CP soap for a few months. So I made the lotion and it turned out great except it apparently has mold growing on it. Yikes! Orange spots around the edges of the tins that are growing. 

I disinfected all my equipment and containers in a bleach bath and dried them with paper towels as directed (1 gallon water with 1 oz. bleach).

Here's the recipe I got off Brambleberry.com for making lotion from scratch:

1.7 oz sweet almond oil
1 oz avocado oil (I used apricot kernel and jojoba, being out of avo oil)
1 oz stearic acid
1.2 oz emulsifying wax
1.2 oz shea butter
18 oz distilled water
.2 oz phenonip
.1 oz fragrance or EO

The directions said to let the lotion cool for 1-2 hours with caps off. I used flat 4 oz tins that have rust resistant coating, not bottles. I ran them all through the bleach bath and dried with paper towels.

Is this the wrong method? Why would I be getting orange spots of mold? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!
[/QUOTE]


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## Mscookie (May 15, 2021)

kimvoen said:


> Same thing happened to me.  I used the exact recipe, sanitized everything with bleach and disinfected with alcohol and today, opened a jar and there was this orange mold on the top.  Unfortunately, I didn't catch it before I put it on, hopped in the shower and scrubbed it off.  I looked at other jars that I made, and so far, there hasn't been anything.
> 
> Not sure why it would do that.


 Was the temperature 80ﾟ or below when you added the preservative to your oils/butters?


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