# Selling to Soon



## cmzaha

Here is a quick example of someone I ran into last night that was selling to soon. I do an art walk every other month that is small. To make a story short I went to the other parking lot to see who was out there and low and behold two more soap makers. Operative word here this is a small Art Walk. Anyhoo I was talking to one of the other soapers out there that knew what she was doing and had a great display. Everything wrapped labeled etc, all cp. The other gal came over checking out the booth and asked how she makes her soap she said she only makes hp since she has no patience to wait to sell. We both looked at each other and told her she still needs to let her soap cure and dry before selling. The answer was oh no it is ready. Okay...This person did not know the difference between cp and hp by looking at it, but she was selling acne curing soap, psorisis curing soaps and a few other magic healing soaps per her signage. 
I did not feel sorry for her knowing she would not sell any soap, but I did feel sorry for the experienced girl that got stuck in the area she was in. I was in the main lot with the bands where everyone congregrates.


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## lpstephy85

Ugh, that really sucks. Great example of impatience. I get the wanting to get out there and sell bug because I had it last year but I waited (next weekend is my first show) but now I know I am prepared. If you think HP is sellable after 24 hours you need to go back and learn a little something. Yeah, it is useable but I wouldn't want a customer using a smushy bar of soap because it hasn't properly cured. And the whole medicinal side of the story... Don't even get me started!!


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## cmzaha

LOL, I am the same way when I see the signs on soaps pertaining to medicinal. Chaps my hide!! Melty soap will not bring back customers! LOL, I have had customers tell me my soaps last to long...they want to try others but want to use what they have!


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## crunchy_cruncher

I have seen soap with ONLY address and phone number on the labels! WHAT?! It angers me! No way I will buy that soap. Actually, I'm scared to buy some of the soap that's being sold - so how can one tell if the seller actually knows what he/she is doing?


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## ilovesoap2

I have to admit I was ready to start selling too. Once I started reading threads old and new I realize there is still a lot to learn. I won't even share soap with anyone outside this household until goodness knows when. Maybe I've taken some of what I've read here too literally, but I do know we live in a sue-happy society so I'm a whole lot concerned.


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## Celestial Balance

I know this is an older post but I can tell you I have seen a lot of her kind and I know where they are coming from. There is a soap maker that has a huge you tube following and a huge FB page that is teaching people this snake oil sales mentality. She is a HP soap maker that has the most insane medical claims on her soaps online that I have ever seen. She is churning out a whole new community of soap makers with no clue.


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## elmtree

I know exactly to whom you are referring. I used to enjoy her videos as pure entertainment but I've gotten so tired of her bad mouthing reputable suppliers and very reputable essential oil suppliers and saying that her preferred company, 'essential depot' (she gets money for this), is better than every other company and not only is her preferred company better, all of the other very reputable companies dilute, tamper with, or aren't selling what they say.... I'm not sure how she can go on in practically every video and say all of these things when they just aren't true. Especially her medical claims. She specifically states she only cures her HP for a week so I'm sure people new to soap making see this and think well, what's a few days less than a week... She told me it's ready right away...


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## shunt2011

We see this kind of thing frequently on the forums I belong too.  It saddens me that people think they are ready to sell after their first batches.  And those that make medical claims just make me crazy.  I bite my tongue but I'm not going to lie i've started to write an email but stopped myself and just walked away.


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## Lyric

elmtree said:


> that her preferred company, 'essential depot' (she gets money for this), is better than every other company and not only is her preferred company better, all of the other very reputable companies  dilute, tamper with, or aren't selling what they say.... I'm not sure how she can go on in practically every video and say all of these things when they just aren't true.



Shaking my head!  Essential Depot, eh.  The one in FL??  Hmm.


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## Celestial Balance

You hit the nail on the head!!! I got banned from her group because I posted in another group about making claims to cure infertility with a bar of soap!! :roll:  I never called her out by name. I was concerned over how easily people were falling for her sales pitch and repeating it. She got wind of it and instead of correcting things she banned a bunch of people that were in the thread if they said anything negative. She is the first soap maker that I think the feds need to bust. She got busted last year by the EPA over her dog soap being an insect repellent. 

She can do what she wants but the moment she steps into teaching mode she needs to be careful! I can always spot one of her students. They do not know how to calculate any adjustments, want information spoon fed to them, post medical claims, hot process, 1 week cure, selling after the first few batches EVER made. :thumbdown:




elmtree said:


> I know exactly to whom you are referring. I used to enjoy her videos as pure entertainment but I've gotten so tired of her bad mouthing reputable suppliers and very reputable essential oil suppliers and saying that her preferred company, 'essential depot' (she gets money for this), is better than every other company and not only is her preferred company better, all of the other very reputable companies  dilute, tamper with, or aren't selling what they say.... I'm not sure how she can go on in practically every video and say all of these things when they just aren't true. Especially her medical claims. She specifically states she only cures her HP for a week so I'm sure people new to soap making see this and think well, what's a few days less than a week... She told me it's ready right away...


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## Celestial Balance

That would be the one. I do love their stuff but not over and above everyone else. Her soap company is the same name only soap and not depot. :shh:



Lyric said:


> Shaking my head!  Essential Depot, eh.  The one in FL??  Hmm.


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## Cindiq4u

It takes all kinds in business. As long as people aren't negative about one another's products during an event, there are plenty of customers who make purchases for differing reasons. 
 I've experienced a soap maker boast her EO soap to the moon, and yet speak negative about someone using FO's at that same event "simply rude". 
 Honesty about our products is essential, along with being considerate of other soap makers. Some people will want fluffy high peaked fancy soap, others will want a rectangle bar that looks nice. Yet if both make the customer happy, there's the key.     

 When I got back onto soaping I saw this gal you speak of on YouTube, and like someone said I was "entertained".
 I was surprised by her claims and even with my relatively good knowledge of EO's, her claims just seamed out there. I even tried a couple of bars, since I had at that point not made or tried any HP soaps. 
 The soap was nice, yet her female hormone bar had to be thrown out because my husband couldn't stand the smell "maybe it was those female hormone EO's". LOL 
 All I can say is yes, her claims are like snake oil " and I do believe it's a placebo affect for some users". I will give it to her for being a go getter, networking kind of gal. Her videos are far to long winded for me, yet someone's watching them.
 I'm surprised she is actually supported by Essential Depot though. They have things to risk with her claims. Honestly, her video of her washing her daughters puppy just broke my heart for the little guy. Either way, soap with good intentions and give your customers the same treatment that you would want for yourself. Cheers~~


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## SoulShine

This is my first post...I`ve been lurking ooops LEARNING for years. I was urged to post because I wanted to ask a question and get some opinions. 

I see how many of you are down on the "medical claims" that some use as a selling point. I make soap (CP) and I grow a lot of herbs and it`s fun combining the two. I sell my soap but I`m very careful of the words I choose on my labels. I never say my soap may "cure" or "heal" but rather I use words like "may help with". Do any of you think changing the words we use is okay? Or do you think NO healing properties of ANY of these herbs,honey,teas,EO`s etc; can come through the lye?


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## AustinStraight

I think some of the healing properties might come through... but even if they do, it's soap, it only stays on your skin for a few moments and is rinsed right down the drain.  I'd rather use expensive essential oils & herbs in body butter, lotion bars, body sprays, massage oils, etc. 

I'm gonna wait until I have at least a year of soapmaking under my belt before I start selling.  I do give as gifts, though   To be honest, I think it's better to give soap away for awhile before selling anyways because that way you have a "fanbase" for when you start selling.  Friends and family tell their friends and family about your soap, those friends & family buy the soap and tell their friends and family, etc. 

And as far as that particular soapmaker goes... yikes.


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## SoulShine

Well at least I hope some of the properties come through. That`s where I find the most joy in making soap,concocting my own recipes( I always use a Soap Calc).
I have been selling soap about 4 years now,making it for almost six. I put a lot of time into making my soaps safe and my labels informative. I also carry an insurance policy to protect myself. I`m not taking my business lightly. 
I`m glad I came upon this thread because I`ve been thinking of doing lotions,herbal salves to utilize my desire in concocting...lol...and when I make soap I`ll just make simple soap,


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## cmzaha

Celestial Balance said:


> That would be the one. I do love their stuff but not over and above everyone else. Her soap company is the same name only soap and not depot. :shh:


 
Oh my, I was looking on her site and checked out her Womens soap. She really needs to clean up her spelling. Advice is spelled advise, thru is spelled threw...I am sure there are many more errors. Watching one of her videos she pointed out she owned a Beauty Shop, but apparently she never learned the difference between cosmetology and aromatherapy. I was a cosmetologest for almost 40 yrs and it did not make me an essential oil espert. Shame on Essential Depot for endorsing her


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## pamielynn

"She can do what she wants but the moment she steps into teaching mode she needs to be careful! I can always spot one of her students. They do not know how to calculate any adjustments, want information spoon fed to them, post medical claims, hot process, 1 week cure, selling after the first few batches EVER made. "

Have you seen her soap teaching class video? Where she has the students lift their lye/water containers over their heads to check for "floaters". I almost choked.



SoulShine said:


> This is my first post...I`ve been lurking ooops LEARNING for years. I was urged to post because I wanted to ask a question and get some opinions.
> 
> I see how many of you are down on the "medical claims" that some use as a selling point. I make soap (CP) and I grow a lot of herbs and it`s fun combining the two. I sell my soap but I`m very careful of the words I choose on my labels. I never say my soap may "cure" or "heal" but rather I use words like "may help with". Do any of you think changing the words we use is okay? Or do you think NO healing properties of ANY of these herbs,honey,teas,EO`s etc; can come through the lye?



If you are labeling your soap as just "SOAP", you can not make any kind of claim other than that it cleans. If you want to to say "helps with", you need to label as a cosmetic.


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## AustinStraight

And you can't make any references to medical conditions like acne, eczema, etc. otherwise it has to be treated as a drug.  I think even "may help with" is a medical claim.  Feel free to say things like "soothing", "mild", "cleansing", "balancing", "moisturizing", "for combination skin", etc.  

And @pamielynn - I winced when I watched that... especially the one guy in the background holding it above his head, by the side (not the handle) of the container, with one hand, yikes!


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## pamielynn

I know this thread went a bit off track, but it's comforting to know that not everyone thinks that woman is THE voice of soapmaking.


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## Miha Engblom

I never had the patience of watching even one video of essential soap to the end. Actually i can almost count on the fingers of one hand those times i actually checked her videos. What I do enjoy a lot on the other hand is : soaping101, (I think soaping 101 is the very BEST) tightly followed by mycherricola ,ariane arsenault and royalty  soaps . Soap queen TV i think is ok, just that i do not make melt and pour yet...


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

AustinStraight said:


> And you can't make any references to medical conditions like acne, eczema, etc. otherwise it has to be treated as a drug. I think even "may help with" is a medical claim. Feel free to say things like "soothing", "mild", "cleansing", "balancing", "moisturizing", "for combination skin", etc.............


 
To clarify on this point - in the US, if you say anything about "moisturizing" then you need to label it as a cosmetic and follow all the laws for that.  Soap can cleanse.  If you say it does anything other than that then you are in the cosmetic or even drug areas


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## Susie

I (unfortunately) watched some of her videos when I was learning how to make soap.  I then watched Soaping 101, Soap Queen, Ariane Arsenault, etc and un-learned all the bad info she gives out.  Fortunately, I am a nurse, and therefore have a finely-tuned "bull" detector, so I never believed any of the medical claims. 

And, for all the rest of you who ignore people who make false(and illegal) medical claims for soap, shame on you!  You should, at the very least, print out the FDA regulations for labeling of soaps/cosmetics/etc, and conveniently place it on your display table.  Then give a copy to the offenders.  I am not saying you should point any fingers, but at the very least equip your customers with knowledge of what is legal and what is not.


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## Saponista

I had never come across this lady or any of her videos until now. I just looked at some of the soaps that were advertised on her website and I am left seething with rage.


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## navigator9

I haven't seen it mentioned, so I will offer up the name of the soap and cosmetic labeling "bible", I can't imagine getting through the jungle of rules and regs without it. "Soap & Cosmetic Labeling - How to Follow The Rules and Regs Explained in Plain English" by Marie Gale.

I make soap, and only soap, and I make no cosmetic claims. I know I don't need to label it, but I want my customers to know what goodies are in there, so I decided to label. The rules about what needs to be on the label, what font to use, what size font, where on the label the information has to be, is incredibly specific. Even with the book, it's complicated. I wanted to make my labels compliant with the regulations, so that I knew there was one less thing to worry about. Any soaper thinking about selling would find this book incredibly helpful if they're trying to navigate the maze of labeling.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Saponista said:


> I had never come across this lady or any of her videos until now. I just looked at some of the soaps that were advertised on her website and I am left seething with rage.



Oh, my, word!  Not to mention the spelling


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## Saponista

Apparently her itch be gone cream gets rid of 'scares' (s******)

The word in brackets said s****** I didn't realise bracketing things starred them out, you learn something new every day.


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## ilovesoap2

Maybe it's the word and not the brackets as it's still starred out.


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## Saponista

The word isn't offensive at all but it's a British one and the letters after the a spell an offensive name for black people so I think that's why it's starred. Even though it's a perfectly innocent word, I looked up synonyms and what I probably should have written was snicker. Sorry everyone!


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## lynnie925

"Seething with rage!" I think I love you! LOL


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## jblaney

Under her "Itch be g*ne" soap a "saddened s*ap maker" wrote how she felt about her labeling.   I love it!  It was written on April 20 so I'm surprised it's still up on her site.


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## pamielynn

My grammar nazi friend actually develops a tic when I make her read new soap descriptions from there, lol. I'm incredibly evil.


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## lpstephy85

I made a mistake of checking out this persons site just now and I am completely speechless. The claims on her immune support soap made my blood boil!!!!!!! People like this lady make it hard for true artisan soap makers to get people to buy their products because we abide by the laws but people see health claims and think it is the best thing ever.


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## ilovesoap2

I've tried watching a couple of her videos but boy, they are too long for me.
I should look for the health claim ones though.


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## AustinStraight

I believe she made a soap that she said was anti-depressant, too.  This thread is quickly turning from "Selling Too Soon" to "Spilling the ES Truth Tea"...


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## pamielynn

I think it goes hand-in-hand though. I would put money on the fact that this woman made a batch of soap and starting selling right away. She has so many followers and people blowing sunshine up her butt, that she thinks her soap is the bomb. Now, I have no idea if her soap is good or bad, but it looks horrible to me. Her personality is selling the product - which is fine - but when I see her sharing mis-information to her followers, I cringe. She is passing along bad information that others will take and and start shoveling to the masses. 

I still haven't gotten over the overhead lye solution check. She's right up there with NT.


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## lpstephy85

pamielynn said:


> blowing sunshine up her butt




This is unequivocally the best thing I have read all day!!!!!


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## ilovesoap2

pamielynn said:


> I still haven't gotten over the overhead lye solution check. She's right up there with Nancy Today.



I love NT 
Wouldn't buy from her though, her workspace always looks dirty...not disorganized and messy but actually dirty.


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## pamielynn

ilovesoap2 said:


> I love NT
> Wouldn't buy from her though, her workspace always looks dirty...not disorganized and messy but actually dirty.



She entertains me - horrifies me - makes me laugh, all at the same time. She used to hold the container up to her head and shake it, too. My favorite "please don't do that" video is the one at market where her shirt is on inside out and she's cutting wet, sticky soap and selling it.

Or maybe the one where she tries to pick a bug out of the batter and can't, so she figures it just adds to the "natural" effect 

But indeed - NT is another example of putting out bad information. She has a video entitled something like "How to make the best handmade soap". It's over 20 minutes long because she can't get the batter to thicken up and has no idea why.


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## Saponista

Now I feel the need to look her up too as I've never had the experience. I know it will lead to more rage, but curiosity is going to get the better of me.


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## AustinStraight

Saw a video where a soapmaker said "And be very careful with the lye, it'll burn you.  It's acid."  :smile:  I had never heard of NT...had to look her up.  No gloves or anything, eek!


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## Lindy

Let's bring the thread back in line with the subject of selling too soon rather than bashing other soapers please.

 Thanks


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## Krazekelly

I joined a cold process soap makers group on Facebook and my head is about to explode from reading all the peoples comments on there. One batch and they're ready to sell and start a business. They don't know what gel, ash, trace or other things are and using aluminum pans and such as molds. Using soap uncured, ready to add additives of all kinds after a couple of batches. Like I said my head is about to explode!! I try to keep my mouth shut or reply in a friendly manner since I was a new soap maker once also. But I researched for months before making my first batch and even now I am still learning. It took me nearly a year to come up with my go to recipe. I just needed to vent!! LOL


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## lsg

I am closing this thread. Holding another soap maker up for ridicule on a public forum is unkind and unworthy of what we expect of our members. We are known as a friendly forum and have been very favorably compared to another forum where this kind of flaming goes on regularly. Please think before you post. We may not agree with information given out on a video or tutorial and it is OK to state that in a diplomatic manner. What is not OK is some of the remarks made in this thread. In case you are wondering, this was brought to my attention by a member who was shocked at the language and attitude displayed by some in this thread.


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## Hazel

If anyone is wondering about changes in some of their posts, it was because I went through and did some slight editing to eliminate references to specific people. 



Saponista said:


> The word isn't offensive at all but it's a  British one and the letters after the a spell an offensive name for  black people so I think that's why it's starred. Even though it's a  perfectly innocent word, I looked up synonyms and what I probably should  have written was snicker. Sorry everyone!



You're right about the last 6 letters being considered an offensive word. The programming identifies these letters and then 'stars' them out. It's unable to differentiate between these letters being part of an unoffensive word and the actual word which is prohibited.

There isn't any reason to say 'sorry'. You didn't know. I'm sure there are words commonly used in the US which are considered rude in the UK.


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