# Question - Red Sandalwood Powder



## cg_lem (Oct 19, 2012)

I'm new in this forum-- and relatively new to soapmaking.  TONS yet to learn!

I much prefer doing things naturally/organically.  And, as we have some wonderful goats, I prefer to make most of my soaps using our does' milk.

I'm trying to get some basics under my belt as far as coloring my soaps.

I've gotten some red sandalwood powder and, not knowing any better, have tried to infuse this in olive oil, as I've done with organic annatto seed (putting the olive oil in a jar and heating it, double-boiler style, to app. 150F, keeping it there for app. 1/2 hour, and allowing it to sit for several hours).  As of yesterday, I've got probably about a cup-and-a-half of slightly reddish-colored olive oil with a lot of powder ("dregs"??) sitting at the bottom.  I can stir this up, and the oil then looks the deep red I'm desiring for the next batch of soap I want to make.  But, of course, it doesn't stay that way.

My mentor has been quite sick-- she's thankfully starting to get better now.  But she's now told me that infusion won't work with the sandalwood powder.

As  I don't want to bother her further right now, I'd like to ask you here two things.  First, what can I possibly do with this oil and sandalwood powder right now?  Also, I do still have some powder left-- and I've found that it looks like I should use app. 1 tsp of this per pound of soap added at light trace.  Have you found this works for your soap making?  Being a "newbie" in this, I must ask as well-- what exactly is "light trace"?

Thank you so much in advance!

- Cathy


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## AlchemyandAshes (Oct 19, 2012)

I use Red Sandalwood powder quite extensively,as like you I prefer to use natural colorants and scents. I use the powder directly at trace. You could still use your oil, dregs and all as part of your total oils in your recipe and just stick blend it really well before adding the lye  to incorporate it evenly. As long as your powder is fine, it shouldn't be too scratchy. I've gotten anywhere from a burgundy to a brown red to a purple...just depends on your recipe. I usually use 1/4 - 1/2 oz ppo at trace.


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## cg_lem (Oct 19, 2012)

Thanks!  This is very helpful.  I can probably learn a lot from you! ;-)  I'm still relatively new to this all.  How I've added the annatto coloring is I've lowered amount of olive oil (I think it was app. 3 oz) from the total amount called for in the recipe, and heated that lowered amount up with the other oils, etc.  Then, when I blend the oils into the lye/goat milk, I've added the infused olive oil, so that the total amount of olive oil in the soap is what the recipe specifies.  Would I follow this same procedure with the sandalwood-infused oil, then, after I stick-blend it well?  Thankfully, it is a fine powder.

Can you tell me what "ppo" is?  Is this in reference to using just the sandalwood powder for coloring?  Would the app. 1 tsp/pound of soap mixture to be a good amount?  

I'm envisioning a deep maroon or burgundy color for the soap I want to do.

Thanks a ton!

- Cathy


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## AlchemyandAshes (Oct 19, 2012)

PPO = per pound of oils 
Yes, the same method you used for your annatto infused oil would be the same for your sandalwood powder infused oil. If your recipe calls for 16 oz of oils and you have 8 oz of infused oil,  you would only need another 8 oz of oil...easy, right?


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## cg_lem (Oct 19, 2012)

Wonderful.  Makes a lot of sense to me!

Thanks a ton, Shawnee!

- Cathy


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## lsg (Oct 20, 2012)

I have tried soaking red sandalwood powder in oil for several weeks and then using it in cp soap.  I didn't get much scent out of it.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Oct 20, 2012)

Yeah, you won't get any sandalwood scent from the powder, unfortunately


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## cg_lem (Oct 20, 2012)

Just did my batch of soap using the red sandalwood oil I've infused.  Turned out to be 8.3 oz of it-- so I reduced the olive oil by that amount and just added the infused oil-- stirred well first!-- just prior to trace.

So far it's looking like it's turning out great! ;-)  It's a very dark, almost brown-ish maroon.  Probably a bit heavy on the sandalwood.  But now I've used it and have seen what I need to do if I ever space out and try infusing it again. :-D  (I'm pretty sure I'll remember to add it in powder form at light trace. . . . .)

I also added a nice frankincense EO.  It smells just wonderful!

I'm very excited to explore more colorants too!  Is this a general rule, then, with the natural colorants-- if they're in powder form, to not infuse them, just add them at trace?  And is 1 tsp ppo a general rule for any colorant in powder form?  If not, where will I be able to find any guidelines for this?

Thanks again for your help here, Shawnee!  

- Cathy


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## AlchemyandAshes (Oct 20, 2012)

Glad to help!  :wink: 
For me, it depends on the herbs/colorant and the look I'm going for as to how much I use...for instance, Charcoal and Spirulina don't need as much...I'm more liberal with Madder Root...Alkanet Root and Woad can be tricky, sometimes more sometimes less...Clays are about the same : 1 tsp ppo...
Your sandalwood soap will probably lighten up...it will get real dark during gel, and then lighten up a little during cure. I've noticed that it sometimes depends on where I get my sandalwood powder as to the color I get.
Trial and error will teach you a lot


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## cg_lem (Oct 20, 2012)

I suppose it's good, then, that, now that I've made a few batches of soap and know a lot of the "basics", I'm not afraid to try new things!  Trial and error- here I come! ;-)

The soaps are already lightening up.  And I'm liking what I'm seeing.

What kind of red does Madder Root provide?

I've heard Woad can actually be rather dangerous to use.  What's your experience with that?

Here's another question, not at all having to do with Sandalwood Powder: I've learned quite well that I need to keep the temperature down making soap with our goats' milk.  I've gotten a wooden 4-lb loaf mold.  And I've read where, when I use that, it's probably best to put it right in the freezer to keep it from getting too hot.  But, where I read this, it doesn't say anything about how long I should leave this mold in the freezer.  I'm thinking it  doesn't make sense to leave it in the full 24 hours.  But maybe it does??  The first time I used this mold with goat milk soap, I removed it after just a few hours.  But the mold was still quite warm on the bottom.  The soaps ended up turning out just fine. 

But, may I ask, what is your take on wooden molds and goat milk soap and having them in the freezer?

Thank you once more!!

- Cathy


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## dirrdee (Oct 21, 2012)

where do you purchase your red sandlwood powder?  I only found one supplier online and they were out of stock  :x


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## TeriDk (Oct 21, 2012)

Hi.  Interesting thread and very timely.  A couple of things.  First it was mentioned above that woad can be tricky and possibly dangerous.  I just finished a column swirl using natural colors (safflower & woad).  Used about 1/8 tsp of woad and it turned a light gray (approx 2 cups of soap) for the 1st time.  Will it darken? What is dangerous about it?  I bought it from Soap Making Resource which sells lots of botanical colorants.  Is there cause for concern?  I'm experimenting with natural color.  I'll thank you all now for any insight.


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## Seifenblasen (Oct 21, 2012)

I think like everything else, it is possible that woad could cause an allergic reaction.  

Woad has been used for dye for a long time; and is also commonly used in Chinese herbal medicine (internally).  For the tiny amount used in soap, which is going to be washed off, personally I wouldn't worry too much about its toxicity.  Here are some interesting articles on woad:

http://www.pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?Lat ... +tinctoria
http://informedfarmers.com/dyers-woad-isatis-tinctoria/

P.S.  I have used woad in some of my soaps and so far they have not caused any immediate illness for me and four of my "human guinea pig" friends.  It is entirely possible, however, that 40 years from now we will all die of cancer from using woad (or alkanet root, or madder root, etc.) in soap!   :twisted:


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## TeriDk (Oct 21, 2012)

Thanks.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Oct 21, 2012)

I have gotten Red Sandalwood Powder from soapmakingresource.com and mountainroseherbs.com. If I just need a little and am too impatient to order it, a few local metaphysical shops carry it in small quantities, so you could try one in your area.

As for Woad, my comment on it being "tricky" was referring to the fact that you just can't predict the color you will get sometimes...grey...blue...something in between. It is a possible allergen as it is a noxious weed, but anyone can be allergic to anything, so...proper labeling should always be used. Woad smells terrible (like cat pee...eww) but luckily that smell doesn't come through the lye process. I have infused oil with it and just added it at trace with varying results. And I'm still alive! 

Cathy: maybe you can post your goat milk question as a separate post and I know you'll get some awesome advice... I dont use Goat Milk (only use Coconut Milk) and I never put mine in the freezer. You certainly can, but I usually don't need to.


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## dirrdee (Oct 21, 2012)

Thanks so much, somehow I never noticed it at SMR?  doh.

I have never gotten anything but grey from woad, I do think it has to do with the recipe tho.  I have tried adding it to the lye as well as at trace and never had any luck.


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## cg_lem (Oct 22, 2012)

I also got my red sandalwood powder from SoapMakingResource.  They really seem to be great, with all the stuff they've got.

I'm glad for the information you all have shared here about Woad.  That was brought up by my soapmaking menor-- a good friend of mine who I actually haven't physically seen in years (FaceBook is GREAT for certain things like this!) but ran her own soapmaking business for years.  I was trying to find what she had told me about it, but it's not surfacing right now.  I just remember she said that it's good to stay away from it.  But, reading what you have shared here, I think I'll be willing to try it at some point too.  Thanks to all of you who shared on this-- this is VERY helpful!

And thank you again, Shawnee.  I may bring up the wooden mold thing elsewhere.  I took my soap out of the freezer after about five hours or so, and it was just fine.

I'm so glad to have found this place!!

- Cathy


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## sabon (Oct 23, 2012)

I am planning to make a soap with red sandalwood powder for colour and wondering if anyone has added it to the lye solution and strained it before adding oils, that way you get the colour and  not feel scratchy?


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