# Snowdrift Farms Formulary



## SudsyKat (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi, all! I was looking over some of the recipes on the Snowdrift Farms website formulary. I'm looking forward to making my first liquid soap in the next couple of weeks, so I wanted to gather some formulation ideas. I also have Failor's Book on liquid soapmaking, but I found it a little confusing.

Anyhow, my question is - there's a recipe for a "Very Moisturizing Facial Soap" that's supposed to be good for mature or dry skin. However, from what little I know and have observed in CP soapmaking, their formula doesn't strike me as very moisturizing. It seems like it's very high on coconut and I'm not sure what purpose the sunflower seed oil serves (plus, I've heard that Sunflower is one of the oils more prone to rancidity). They seem to like using it in their formulas - maybe it's an inexpensive "filler" oil. I worry, though, because of the rancidity factor.

Could someone chime in here? 

Here's their formula (I added the information on percentages):

(36%) 45 oz. coconut 76 degree
(32%) 40 oz. sunflower seed oil 
(20%) 25 oz. olive oil
(10%) 12 oz. avocado oil
(2%) 3 oz. shea butter
Water = 48 fluid oz. 
Potassium hydroxide = 26 oz. (by weight). This is a 3% lye discount. 
Dilution water = 2 to 2.5 gallons

Thanks for your help!


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## jennikate (Nov 23, 2010)

Have you run this thru a calculator? I agree coconut seems little High. Also that is a lot of soap. I would shrink amount down run the numbers again and give it a shot. Just my 2 cents.


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## SudsyKat (Nov 23, 2010)

According to a calculator, it would definitely be drying, which is why I ask. It seems like Snowdrift Farm would know what they're talking about to some degree, but I wanted to get input. And they do give you an idea of how to shrink down the recipe, so I was definitely planning to make a small batch of whatever I make. 

I was thinking, Catherine Failor's book on liquid soaps makes it seem like coconut oil is the only oil you can use as your main oil - if you want to have a clear solution. To my limited thinking, that kind of condemns all liquid soap to be kind of drying, doesn't it? I guess that goes along with my original question, though.  :?


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## SudsyKat (Nov 23, 2010)

Sorry to bump this up   , but I was hoping for a little bit more input on this. I'm so excited about making my first liquid soap. Now that I think about it, is there a better place on this forum for me to post this question (since it's not really about CP soap)? Maybe I'm just posting in the wrong place.

The original question was "does this recipe seem too high in coconut oil?" Now, I guess the bigger question is, should all liquid soap recipes be high in coconut (like Catherine Failor suggests in her book)? If so, doesn't that mean that liquid soap would generally be more on the drying side? I'd love to make a liquid soap that's moisturizing enough to use on the face.

Thanks!


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## ToniD (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't have any experience with liquid soap, but  lovinsoap.com  AGriffin from here, has some stuff on liquid soap on her blog.  Her recipe does not have high CO.

You can buy liquid castile so I would guess that is at least high in OO if not all OO.


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## agriffin (Nov 23, 2010)

SudsyKat said:
			
		

> Sorry to bump this up   , but I was hoping for a little bit more input on this. I'm so excited about making my first liquid soap. Now that I think about it, is there a better place on this forum for me to post this question (since it's not really about CP soap)? Maybe I'm just posting in the wrong place.
> 
> The original question was "does this recipe seem too high in coconut oil?" Now, I guess the bigger question is, should all liquid soap recipes be high in coconut (like Catherine Failor suggests in her book)? If so, doesn't that mean that liquid soap would generally be more on the drying side? I'd love to make a liquid soap that's moisturizing enough to use on the face.
> 
> Thanks!



(thanks, ToniD!)

SudsyKat - Yes, to me that recipe is high in CO. 

Coconut oil in liquid soap makes for a very thin liquid soap as well as one that is much harsher than I like.

I especially wouldn't use one high in coconut on my face.  Just my personal preference.

Here is my favorite LS recipe.  (0% lye excess)  If you want a 10% lye excess per Failor then add 10% to the lye amount which will give you about 181 g KOH.  Then neutralize as you want.

Olive Oil – 350 g
Safflower Oil – 170 g
Coconut Oil – 115 g
Castor Oil – 170 g
Palm Oil – 50 g
KOH 168 g
Distilled Water 390 g

I love liquid soap full of olive and safflower oils with a touch of palm.  This makes for a nice full bodied liquid soap. 

I've also noticed that liquid soaps made with high coconut oil have a smell to them.  Hard to describe but very noticeable. 

Good luck!


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## SudsyKat (Nov 23, 2010)

Thanks so much to both of you! This is just what I needed! I think I'll just go with your recipe, agriffin. 

If you don't use a lye excess (which I'd prefer not to do), then do you usually end up right on the money in terms of PH, or do you end up having to neutralize a little? I am very precise with measurements, so I'm hoping to just get it right (but I'll have a neutralizer on hand).

Do you have to worry about your oils going bad in liquid soap (since you're not superfatting and may even be doing a lye excess)? 

Sorry for all the questions and thanks again for the recipe!


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## agriffin (Nov 23, 2010)

SudsyKat said:
			
		

> Thanks so much to both of you! This is just what I needed! I think I'll just go with your recipe, agriffin.
> 
> If you don't use a lye excess (which I'd prefer not to do), then do you usually end up right on the money in terms of PH, or do you end up having to neutralize a little? I am very precise with measurements, so I'm hoping to just get it right (but I'll have a neutralizer on hand).
> 
> ...



When I don't use a lye excess I end up with soap that is anywhere from 8.7-9.7 pH.  Which is good for me (under 10).  If you are seriously going to get into liquid soap...then get a digital pH meter.

I personally do not worry about oils going rancid in liquid soap.       

I float back and forth on doing a lye excess and not.  I would really recommend taking the same recipe and doing it both ways.  Then you'll know which you like better.


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## SudsyKat (Nov 23, 2010)

Great suggestion - I'll try the recipe both ways and see how i feel. 

As far as PH testing, I remember reading several posts about how ph testing is not really accurate when it comes to soap. Perhaps that was in reference to hard soap (bars) only? Maybe the liquid version is a different story. I would love to be able to know the exact PH of my soap (I'm just scientific like that!).

Thanks again for all your help!


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## agriffin (Nov 23, 2010)

SudsyKat said:
			
		

> Great suggestion - I'll try the recipe both ways and see how i feel.
> 
> As far as PH testing, I remember reading several posts about how ph testing is not really accurate when it comes to soap. Perhaps that was in reference to hard soap (bars) only? Maybe the liquid version is a different story. I would love to be able to know the exact PH of my soap (I'm just scientific like that!).
> 
> Thanks again for all your help!



Yes, I believe that is mostly using strips.  Using a digital tester in liquid soap is very accurate.


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## SudsyKat (Nov 23, 2010)

Okay, last questions on this - I promise!!!

1. what tester do you use and do you like it?
2. what is the acceptable range of Ph for soap (liquid in particular, if there's a difference)? I know it's a very beginner question, but while we're on the topic,...

Thanks so much!


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## agriffin (Nov 23, 2010)

SudsyKat said:
			
		

> Okay, last questions on this - I promise!!!
> 
> 1. what tester do you use and do you like it?
> 2. what is the acceptable range of Ph for soap (liquid in particular, if there's a difference)? I know it's a very beginner question, but while we're on the topic,...
> ...



I have this tester http://www.texashydroponics.com/shop/pr ... 387&page=1 and love it!

You could probably find a better deal on ebay or amazon.  They are right across the street from me so I ran over there one day.

Liquid soap pH should be from 8.5-10.  I really shoot for 8.5-9.

Once you get your meter...get some different liquid soaps and meter them.  Dr Bronners metered at 8.7 if I remember correctly.


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## SudsyKat (Nov 23, 2010)

I can't thank you enough for this help. It's people like you that motivate me to give back (or pay it forward, so to speak).  People like you are what keeps these forums alive and growing!


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## SudsyKat (Nov 24, 2010)

Okay, Agriffin - I lied. I actually need to ask another question (or two). 

I put your numbers through SoapCalc and it comes to 170g KOH instead of 120. Your thoughts on this?

I was going to order some safflower oil online and I noticed there are two kinds. One site has regular and "high oleic". Another site lists it as "Oleic" or "Linoleic". Which one do you use in your formula?

I was thinking about substituting sunflower, since they're similar in many ways. Maybe that's the simple solution. Would it make a huge difference?

Thanks!


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## agriffin (Nov 24, 2010)

SudsyKat said:
			
		

> Okay, Agriffin - I lied. I actually need to ask another question (or two).
> 
> I put your numbers through SoapCalc and it comes to 170g KOH instead of 120. Your thoughts on this?
> 
> ...



You are correct!  I changed the original.
I Just looked at my sunflower and it is high oleic. I just get the brand from Whole Foods. I think it's called 365 or something.


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## agriffin (Nov 24, 2010)

Oh and on the sunflower...yes you can use that.  It will be very similar.

I forget why I prefer safflower over sunflower...I know there was a reason...but I can't remember.  But yes, they are similar.

Good luck!


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## Mayren (Nov 24, 2010)

are you guys using the same calculator?

I use the Summerbee Meadow Calculator for LS at a 0% SF and
it comes out pretty nice.


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## SudsyKat (Nov 24, 2010)

I think I just figured out the issue. If you use NaOH, it comes to 120, but with KoH it comes to 168 ish. See...





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## agriffin (Nov 24, 2010)

Doh!   When I converted that recipe I didn't use KOH SAPs!  Sorry, SudsyKat...I'm glad you caught that!  Thanks for correcting!

See...that's why you check every recipe you find (even on a forum).   :shock:


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## SudsyKat (Nov 24, 2010)

Funny thing is, I caught that, but then I reduced the batch to about 1/4 the original size and forgot to reduce the KoH amount.   DOH! and Double-DOH! It was  a nice big clump of dry crumbly siezed ickiness! I'm starting again, though. I really want to do this! I'll keep ya posted!


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## agriffin (Nov 24, 2010)

SudsyKat said:
			
		

> Funny thing is, I caught that, but then I reduced the batch to about 1/4 the original size and forgot to reduce the KoH amount.   DOH! and Double-DOH! It was  a nice big clump of dry crumbly siezed ickiness! I'm starting again, though. I really want to do this! I'll keep ya posted!



Oh no!  Lol, it's been one of those weeks for me.  So I'm taking the rest of the week off!  

Good luck and let me know how it goes!


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## SudsyKat (Nov 26, 2010)

Okay - I'm at it again today - what concentration should my final mix be? I mean how much distilled water do you add in the end? I've seen anywhere from 20% for OO soap to 35 for other kinds. I'm not sure what the standard is. Thanks!!!

PS - just bought a small (3 quart) crockpot at Target for $8.99. Ridiculous, huh? And it's the right size for me because I want to try smaller batches at first.    8)


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## Coop (Nov 28, 2010)

I'm interested also in liquid soap, thanks for the recipe and info. Since i'm not sure making liquid is my cup of tea, I hate to spend the $$ for a ph meter. How necessary is it, can I get by without one for my first batch(es).  i can see it'd be a great tool if i continue to make liquid soap. or can you recommend a less expensive model, I tried to goggle if a soil ph tester would work but could not find an answer.


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## SudsyKat (Nov 29, 2010)

You can just order some phenolphthalein. It's not an exact pH reading, but it will indicate generally whether or not your soap is in the desired pH range.


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## eucalypta (Nov 29, 2010)

If you wish your LS to be clear, just follow the recipe.
You could superfat after the soap is done with TRO (Turkish Red Oil = sulfated Castor Oil) it is wonderful for the skin and leaves the clarity intact.

Just my 2 cts


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## HenleyNatural (Nov 29, 2010)

There's a lot of great information in this thread.  I didn't even know there was such a thing as a digital pH meter.  Thanks for sharing everyone!


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