# Disapointed: Southern Soapers non-bleeding colorant bottles



## candice19 (Jun 20, 2009)

I'm disapointed.  I purchased a few bottles of the above colorant.  They color well, but they are sooooooooo hard to squeeze out of the bottle.

Today, I squeezed too hard   So hard that the cap completely shot off into my bowl of HOT m&p base, splattering base all over my chest and arms (believe me, it hurt, and I have the red marks to prove it).  Not to mention my 1 pound of m&p base is wasted b/c there's .5 ounces of colorant in it.

I'm writing them asking them to improve their bottles and for a replacement for my loss of materials (that I bought from them anyway).

I'll keep you all updated.  But, really, be careful with their bottles!!!  Or you'll end up with red dots on your skin like me 

UPDATE: She wrote me back and said that it's "common knowledge to snip the ends of the bottles" to increase flow and won't offer a replacement.  Is this really common knowledge?!?  Other colorants I have are twist tops, require droppers, or just flat out have an easier flow.   What should I do???


----------



## Artephius (Jun 20, 2009)

Hmm, I haven't used their colorants before, but I have used the 'snip the end of the bottle' trick for many creams and art supplies in the past. _That being said_, I wouldn't call it 'common knowledge', especially if nothing about it is mentioned on the website. I can definitely tell you that in retail, it's dangerous to assume the customer knows something you haven't told them. 

I doubt you'll get her to replace the M&P base, but I would have expected her to offer to replace the dye.

I would maybe unscrew the caps of the bottles and use a toothpick/dropper to scoop out the appropriate amount of dye for the remaining bottles you have left-- but I'm guessing you probably won't be ordering any more from them again.


----------



## candice19 (Jun 20, 2009)

Artephius said:
			
		

> Hmm, I haven't used their colorants before, but I have used the 'snip the end of the bottle' trick for many creams and art supplies in the past. _That being said_, I wouldn't call it 'common knowledge', especially if nothing about it is mentioned on the website. I can definitely tell you that in retail, it's dangerous to assume the customer knows something you haven't told them.
> 
> I doubt you'll get her to replace the M&P base, but I would have expected her to offer to replace the dye.
> 
> I would maybe unscrew the caps of the bottles and use a toothpick/dropper to scoop out the appropriate amount of dye for the remaining bottles you have left-- but I'm guessing you probably won't be ordering any more from them again.


She actually said she won't be replacing anything b/c it "is common knowledge." She did give a $5 voucher (big whoop).

The bottles don't have screw tops, it's just the dropper as the end.  The dropper part can't be removed easily, or without making a mess.

The only thing that's preventing me from ceasing to purchase from them.  Anyone know of anywhere that offers SFIC base cheaper than $9.99/2 lbs?


----------



## Artephius (Jun 20, 2009)

Ah well, sometimes the only thing you can do is vote with your wallet and walk away.  :?

I hope you find another base that works for you.


----------



## Deda (Jun 20, 2009)

I'm so sorry that happened to you.  I've never heard of having to snip the tops to increase the flow, but I don't use their colorants.



> Anyone know of anywhere that offers SFIC base cheaper than $9.99/2 lbs?


Not off the top of my head, but I remember last year there was talk of an SFIC co-op.  Perhaps we could generate enough interest again to see it through.  You never know?


----------



## carebear (Jun 22, 2009)

i stuck a pin in the end to widen the orifice - or cut it.  Same as with any other squeezy bottle (glue comes to mind, and that stuff we use to paint on t-shirts).  I don't recall ever seeing instructions to do that - but I guess not everyone would think of it.


----------



## soapbuddy (Jun 22, 2009)

Deda said:
			
		

> I'm so sorry that happened to you.  I've never heard of having to snip the tops to increase the flow, but I don't use their colorants.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



For the SFIC MP soap base, try here: http://www.soapies-supplies.com/shop/sfic-cut-ups.html


----------



## Deda (Jun 22, 2009)

Thanks, Soapbuddy, I've been wanting to try theirs!


----------



## candice19 (Jun 22, 2009)

soapbuddy said:
			
		

> Deda said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, even their regular 2 lb tub is cheaper than SS!  Do you have experience with shipping speed and cost?


----------



## soapbuddy (Jun 22, 2009)

candice19 said:
			
		

> soapbuddy said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've ordered from her before. The cost is about average and she shipped fairly quickly.


----------



## Vinca Leaf (Jun 22, 2009)

Thanks for the info....and while I'm not in the market for colorants, I will make a mental note of what type of customer service they provide.


----------



## candice19 (Jun 22, 2009)

Vinca Leaf said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info....and while I'm not in the market for colorants, I will make a mental note of what type of customer service they provide.


It's kinda unfortunate because I gave them a rave review not too long ago   Between then and now I've had another experience, and it was overall not good.


----------



## zeoplum (Jun 26, 2009)

Here's another good source for affordable SFIC base:

http://southerngardenscents.com/
(formerly known as Tony's)

or the direct link to the bases:
http://southerngardenscents.com/index.p ... 3de9973128

zeo


----------



## tildy (Jun 26, 2009)

*Re: Be CAREFUL w/ Southern Soapers non-bleeding colorant bot*



			
				candice19 said:
			
		

> I'm shocked and angry at the same time.  I purchased a few bottles of the above colorant.  They color well, but they are sooooooooo hard to squeeze out of the bottle.
> 
> Today, I squeezed too hard   So hard that the cap completely shot off into my bowl of HOT m&p base, splattering base all over my chest and arms (believe me, it hurt, and I have the red marks to prove it).  Not to mention my 1 pound of m&p base is wasted b/c there's .5 ounces of colorant in it.
> 
> ...



Candace
The information to snip the tips on the bottles of colorant that you want a faster flow on is on our website. Had you emailed us when you first experienced a problem, we would have gladly directed you to this information: 

http://southernsoapers.com/cart/soap-co ... 76_19.html

"These Non Bleeding Gel Colors have been formulated specifically for use in Melt & Pour Soap bases, and are non-migrating - non-bleeding in Melt & Pour bases. Easy to use because the dry powder pigments are already dispersed in glycerin, making clean up easy also! Just squeeze a few drops into your soap base until you achieve the color or shade desired. The Basic Colors are oxides or ultramarmines, and approved for both soap and cosmetics. The Jeweled Colors are gleaming micas, and are also both soap and cosmetic approved. The Neon Brights are approved only for use in soap however. Three of the Jeweled Colors (Rouge Maroon, Midnight Blue, & Patagonia Purple) are not 100% non bleeding, however they migrate minimally, still making them good choices for most Melt & Pour applications. Please note: These gel colorants are very thick. The dropper bottles only allow a small drop at a time. *If you need a faster flow with these liquid colors, simply use your scissors to snip the tip of the dropper bottle so the liquid pigment has a wider tip to flow through.* "

The bottles are not defective as you stated in your email to me. You noted that you had experienced the problem with the other liquid colorants also, but had not emailed or called us for any guidance on the matter. That is what we are here for, and our phone number is freely available on the website as well as our customer service email.

Your demand that Southern Soapers replace all of your liquid colorants and the soap base was unreasonable considering you did not follow stated directions on our website for using these colorants, nor email or call for us to assist you in the matter when you first experienced difficulty. 

*As a courtesy, I still issued you a Gift Certificate for $5.00 regarding this matter. I don't see you mentioning this fact anywhere in your complaint.* 


Again, I am very sorry you had this mishap. Very sorry you did not call or email us for help. However, our policies are very clear that Southern Soapers is not responsible for the use or mis use of our products. That is where the customer has to take responsibility in the matter.

Kelly Bloom
Southern Soapers
http://www.southernsoapers.com


PS>  EDITED TO NOTE :


			
				candice19 said:
			
		

> "She did give a $5 voucher (big whoop). "



Hmm, I take that back. You *did* mention the $5.00 Gift Certificate we issued you.


----------



## tildy (Jun 26, 2009)

candice19 said:
			
		

> Artephius said:
> 
> 
> 
> > The only thing that's preventing me from ceasing to purchase from them.  *Anyone know of anywhere that offers SFIC base cheaper* than $9.99/2 lbs?



Yes Candace!  You order enough soap base that you really should consider ordering directly from SFIC.  Just order the cut ups and get five 50 lb boxes. This is also called 'front loading ' your profit margin, making it possible for you to sell your M&P soaps more profitably yourself. 

SFIC is located in San Francisco, CA... Southern Soapers does NOT sell SFIC at wholesale prices due to the incredibly high cost of shipping to Virginia from California.  Nor do we have any intention of competing with suppliers that do wholesale the SFIC soap bases. I order SFIC soap bases primarily for our Soapalooza! Soap Arts Studio retail store here in Virginia.  I run the prebuy twice a year on SFIC cut ups when I am reordeing for my Soapalooza! Soap Arts Studio retail craft store, solely as a courtesy for those soapmakers that normally would not want 250 lbs minimum of their own.  Shipping soap bases is expensive, a function of weight and distance. The further you are from California, the more expensive the shipping will be, of course.

The SFIC tubs you see on Southern Soapers are offered to let those wanting to try it for the first time, soapmakers in an immediate manufacturing emergency, and for those wanting to get a few pounds of soap base with their fragrance order (saving them a separate shipping bill from another supplier).  

Here is where  you can go to order your SFIC soap bases directly:
http://www.sficcorp.com/meltandamppoursoapbase.aspx

Good luck! Ordering directly is absolutely, positively the way to go on this!  You can mix and match your five 50 lb cases also.

Kelly Bloom
Southern Soapers
http://www.southernsoapers.com 
757-224-2439


----------



## candice19 (Jun 26, 2009)

Kelly,

It's very professional of you to post someone's entire complaint email.  By posting, you're showing people on this board your customer service skills as well - possibly even making people think twice about discussing their shopping experiences online??

I ASKED for a replacement and to discuss it to come to a resolution we could both be happy with.  You just emailed me the voucher.  The most unfortunate part is that I've been so busy this week that I actually had time to think about the voucher, etc, and wanted to email you BACK saying forget it, it's possible I overreacted at the time I emailed you since I was mad afterall, and then purchase even more soap from your current pre-buy event.

I've said nothing but good things about SS up until this moment and even recommended you to someone 2 days ago!  Sad to say, that will end today.

Oh, and thanks for valuing me as a customer and letting me know where else I can shop.

Candice, with an "i"


----------



## Vinca Leaf (Jun 26, 2009)

Kelly Bloom, to be clear: I do not "know" Candice any more than I know you.  I *would* like to give my perspective as a person that shops for soap supplies though.  

YES the soaper/consumer does have an element of responsibility in using products they purchase.  If Candace wanted to super-scent her M&P and overused it, thus ruining her 2# of soap, that is TOTALLY her fault, and she should take her lumps.  What she described was not that...it was a failed cap, thus ruining her 2# of soap.  Additionally, the hot soap on her probably gave her a bad day.  Not a bad burn, but a bad day.  And it was directly from the cap popping off into her soap base.  The cap from colorant that she purchased from your company. 

I see now that in the listing for colorant you give instructions on what to do if the colorant does not flow freely.  I can only assume that the info came out of this situation (which is something positive!).  If it was there before, well then Candice should take her lumps.  I suspect it wasn't though, since you chided her in her email for it being "common knowledge" to fiddle with the cap.

Finally, while Candice came to the forum with a problem, I'm not sure it's your place (on behalf of the company) to put a laundry list of what transpired between you, the company, and she, the consumer.  At the very least it's poor form, but the reason why it concerns me is that it seems to be a breech of trust.  She went to the source to alert the company to the problem, the company says "You should know better", and then when she comes to fellow soapers in disbelief, the company comes in and airs the dirty laundry?  And as an aside, it seems you did so in a bit of a tizzy to not notice that she HAD mentioned the $5 credit.  Her story does not differ from what she told us, and what you've cut and pasted here.

In reading what has transpired, SS only stands behind it's products as far as the purchase happens.  Then, you're on your own.  Hiding behind "Our policy clearly states...." would be inflammatory to me as a customer.  I have no experience with you (collectively), but I wonder if I ever will?  I have heard raves about lovely scents, but it's not just the product for me.  Customer service goes along way.  Treating people with courtesy and concern goes a long way.  Wanting to make sure everything is a-ok goes a long way.  Along with good packaging, speedy service and all the automated type things too.  

"In these trying economic times" my money goes to those who are trying.


----------



## tildy (Jun 26, 2009)

Candice
Perhaps calling Southern Soapers privately would have been more professional on your part also? 

Your complaint here however misrepresents the problem and our communications. The problem you experienced though was two fold : 1. you did not read directions,  and 2. you did not ask for help.

You brought your customer complaint to a public forum instead of to us, and asked for help. It has been given. I have directed you to the place on our website where the instructions were on how to handle the colorant bottles. I have directed you to the SFIC Soap Base Manufacturer source to secure your future success.

I wish you well in all your endeavors. 


Kelly Bloom
Southern Soapers
http://www.southernsoapers.com
757-224-2439


----------



## tildy (Jun 26, 2009)

Vinca Leaf said:
			
		

> Kelly Bloom, to be clear: I do not "know" Candice any more than I know you.  I *would* like to give my perspective as a person that shops for soap supplies though.
> 
> YES the soaper/consumer does have an element of responsibility in using products they purchase.  If Candace wanted to super-scent her M&P and overused it, thus ruining her 2# of soap, that is TOTALLY her fault, and she should take her lumps.  What she described was not that...it was a failed cap, thus ruining her 2# of soap.  Additionally, the hot soap on her probably gave her a bad day.  Not a bad burn, but a bad day.  And it was directly from the cap popping off into her soap base.  The cap from colorant that she purchased from your company.
> 
> ...



If you have further questions, please feel free to contact me or Candice personally.

edited to highlight my last response in red and to add that the one thing this incident will do is ensure the note to snip the non bleeding colorant bottles in on each of their individual pages. Hopefully, this will prevent a similar circumstance.  And for the tangles my fingers make on keyboards.

Kelly Bloom
Southern Soapers
http://www.southernsoapers.com


----------



## Vinca Leaf (Jun 26, 2009)

tildy said:
			
		

> If you have further questions, please feel free to contact me or Candice personally.
> 
> Kelly Bloom
> Southern Soapers
> http://www.southernsoapers.com



Thank you for your reply Kelly.  I think I've got all the info I need.  Have a harmonious day.


----------



## candice19 (Jun 26, 2009)

tildy said:
			
		

> Candice
> Perhaps calling Southern Soapers privately would have been more professional on your part also?
> 
> Perhaps. It was also on a Saturday, and your phone hours are 9 am - 6 pm M - F, so I don't think it was unreasonable I emailed you. But at the same time, you could have called me as you have my information on account.
> ...


And really, so what if I brought it to a public forum?  I care about my fellow soapers and wanted to warm them of the possibilities and share my experience.  They'd help me enormously, so why wouldn't I help them?  Even if I asked people here for help - could they really help me with your customer service?  Just like if you bought an item in a store that broke and told your friends about it - they can complain all they want but ultimately only the people at the store can help you.

I'm most disappointed to see that you posted correspondence between us.  In a way though, I'm really glad you did.  It speaks much more clearly of Southern Soapers than I could.

I'll be expecting my refund soon.  Thanks.


----------



## carebear (Jun 27, 2009)

If the OP wanted to put her story out in the public forum, then it's certainly appropriate for Kelly to clarify the missing details - which were absolutely key.

I've only made a few purchases from this supplier, but this thread won't impact my decision about whether or not to shop there again.

If she wanted her communications kept private then she should have left the whole thing so herself.  

She didn't come here to vent - look at the topic of this thread:  it's a WARNING, not a vent.  And it's irresponsible, then, to misrepresent things.  

It's a reap what you sow thing.


----------



## Artephius (Jun 27, 2009)

I thought a while before posting this, because I'm new and I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but I agree with carebear.

This thread struck a chord with me, because I've worked in retail for some time. Retailers have to have policies regarding product return and use. The truth is, customer service is important, but I know that if the store I work in abandoned the policies we have in place for those types of events, it would significantly impact us. I may not be able to please my customers 100% of the time, but I do the best that I can while still ensuring that the store is able to make enough money to employ me! It's a thinner financial margin than many people suspect (and I work for a major retailer). 

Not everyone will be pleased. I've had customers curse/yell/_threaten_ me because I could not return an item they had damaged (for (a real) example, ripped pages out of a book). Thankfully this situation did not get quite that aggressive!

The simple truth of customer service is that no matter how hard you try, you can't make everyone happy with the resources you have available to you. It's on the retailers shoulders to do the best they can, and it's on the customer's shoulders to recognize when they may have made a mistake. 

When situations get on the heated side, like after being brought to public attention, I think the tendency is for both parties to react in ways they might not under cooler settings. 

It does very well to think about what a situation seems like from both sides of the counter-- and that goes for retailers and customers alike.


----------



## Vinca Leaf (Jun 27, 2009)

Bahahaaaaa!  I absolutely *love* all the editing done on this thread.  Seriously? :roll: 

Now I *really* have all the info I need. :|


----------



## candice19 (Jun 27, 2009)

This entire thread has become ridiculous.  I came here, yes, WARNING other soapers of something that could happen that one would not expect - a cap flying off a bottle.  Seeing that some people who posted did not know snipping the bottle top as "common knowledge" goes to show that there are people in the same boat as me.

What drives me nuts is that I had NO INTENTION of badmouthing SS.  I wanted keep people updated in regards to the bottle top thing, and to know where else I could shop, end of story.  I see nothing that I posted before Kelly posted where I tried to steer people away from SS.  Even when she brought up the replacing 20 lbs of stuff, I chose not to give my side of the story of how they couldn't get their act together.  I feel I was forced to not keep my mouth shut and defend myself to clarify the situation, but some people misinterpret that as I'm out to point fingers.

It only got "heated" when the owner of the company decided to post emails.  Whether or not you want to  acknowledge it, that is a truly unprofessional act on all accounts.  Where and what exactly did I misrepresent?  It's not like I knew the information out before I started and denied it.  Anything I've said is what I knew and believed at the time.  It's not like I claimed SS had horrible customer service and they never did anything for me.  This post was for one isolated incident, but SS decided to put the whole thing out and bring the past out.  

I'm not embarrassed or insulted by anyone's feelings/stance on the situation between me and SS, and I'm sure it's not a forum member's (minus Kelly) intention to do so.  I've worked in retail as well and know that you simply cannot please anyone - but if they offer to work something out it's something you can consider.  And I certainly don't go blabbling their request to every other customer there.

Oh, I see now that Kelly had EDITED OUT and cleaned up all her commons in regards to snipping the cap being "common knowledge" - interesting.

Reap what you sow, reap what you sow.


----------



## Tabitha (Jun 27, 2009)

I am locking this thread now. When I get home from dinner & a movie I will sort through the posts & remove the info that should not be on a public forum. NEVER post a private email , PM or convo on a public forum. I 'believe' it's against the law. I could be wrong, I am not a lawyer.

I'll be back after while. If another mod pops in before I return, please feel free to do some house cleaning.

Thanks,


----------



## Tabitha (Jun 27, 2009)

OK, I have read the thread & edited only 3-4 words. 

Members at the SMF have a right to ask for public guidance if they are having trouble w/ a product or a supplier. They do need to do so in a way that is not inflammatory. 

Suppliers have the right to share their side of the story so long as 'personal' info is not divulged & it is not inflammatory. 

When you walk into a B&M shop, you can see if the employees & shop are clean, if they are polite, if the product is fresh & well cared for. You can't see any of those things online. That is why we must share our experiences, both positive & negative. 

Please continue to share both positive & negative online experiences re suppliers w/i this forum.


----------

