# Is this normal for Funky Hair Syndrome?



## FlybyStardancer (Mar 28, 2014)

So I'm transitioning from storebought shampoo to my own shampoo bar. And dealing with the joys of Funky Hair Syndrome. Today was my third time using the shampoo bar.

Noticing that my hair was feeling a bit greasy, I decided to french braid it to get it up and back and to minimize the look of "hey, bad hair day!". However, my hair was fighting me the entire time I was braiding it. It was like it was sticky instead of the more slick movements it gets when it's got a lot of oil in it.

Can anyone explain why it's doing this? Is it normal during this transition period?


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## Obsidian (Mar 28, 2014)

Yeah, its normal but I can't really explain the why of it. Has to do with washing away layers of build up from shampoo/conditioner. Hang in there, it gets better. Make sure to always use a vinegar rinse, it helps a great deal.


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## FlybyStardancer (Mar 28, 2014)

I've been doing acidic rinses. Started with vinegar, but just before I switched to the bar I changed over to citric acid. Unlike ACV, there's no awful smell. I've been doing a two-stage rinse... One rinse to get the acid mixed in with the soap and get that all rinsed out, then a second smaller one that gets left in to rebalance my hair's pH, since the water coming out of the taps is consistently over a pH of 8. I'm planning on replacing the second rinse with a light leave-in conditioner, but that hasn't been made yet.

I think I'm mostly worried about going into work tomorrow. lol I'm a receptionist, and the only admin on-duty on weekends. It's my face everyone sees, and I don't want my hair to be too awful.


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## jules92207 (Mar 28, 2014)

All I can add as I just went through this with Genny's recipe is lather lather lather... Get it super sudsy before you rinse. That really helped me.


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## Belinda02 (Mar 28, 2014)

I googled the problem of wax on hair and individuals were using washing soap to clean their hair of a product called Dax? Tomorrow I'm buying dawn dish washing soap.


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## Obsidian (Mar 28, 2014)

There is no need to rinse the soap out with the acidic rinse, just use water followed up by the leave in acidic rinse.


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## DeeAnna (Mar 28, 2014)

^^^ What Obsidian said. I worry that the acidic rinse might be breaking the soap down into fatty acids while the lather is still on your hair. If so, that could be kinda icky since the FA's aren't water soluble. 

Rinse with water to get rid of the soap. Then acidify the hair.

I use citric as well, but only after I rinse. Haven't tried it the other way 'round like you're doing. My hair looks and feels pretty nice afterwards.


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## FlybyStardancer (Mar 28, 2014)

I'm not using the first citric acid rinse while the soap is still in my hair!

My routine: Get my hair wet. Get lather from the bar, work it into my hair (has taken at least three lathering sessions to get my hair coated, but even then the lather vanishes as soon as it hits my hair). Put my hair up into a bun, and go about washing the rest of my body. Rinse out my hair thoroughly as I would with anything. Carefully pour on acidic rinse, working it through my hair. Rinse that out, then add in more acidic rinse. Pile on top of my head, turn off the shower and wrap my hair in a towel while I dry off and get dressed and do various other related tasks.

I know the lather isn't as good as it could be. The bar is only just five weeks old either yesterday or today. (I grabbed the thin little excess bar, figuring it would have dried out more and that using it would give the full-sized bars more time.) I also have a LOT of hair. Coarse, thick, and down to the small of my back.


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## DeeAnna (Mar 28, 2014)

Oh. I'm sorry ... I missed the ball on this one, FlyBy.


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## FlybyStardancer (Mar 28, 2014)

It's fine, DeeAnna. You're still my soapy superhero!


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## Obsidian (Mar 28, 2014)

I misread too, it sounded like you were rinsing the soap out with the acid rinse:silent: You might try running the bar down the length of your hair instead of trying to transfer the lather from your hands onto the hair. Thats how I first used my shampoo bar and it never worked very well, now I gently swipe the bar down my hair and it lathers up really nice.

Are you putting your soapy hair into a bun or did I read that wrong? If you are, then you might reconsider doing that. There really isn't any reason to leave the soap sit in your hair and I can't imagine the high PH does your hair any good.


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## FlybyStardancer (Mar 29, 2014)

My thought for letting it sit is that soap is a wash-off product, so letting it stay on the hair for a few minutes gives more time for what's in the soap to have an effect on the hair. For instance, I used a tea with marshmallow root, chamomile, and lemon, and infused the OO with chamomile, calendula, and lemon zest. I would do something similar for a rinse-off conditioner.

I also did try rubbing it directly on my hair today, and I got even less lather that way (compared to lathering up in my hands). As long as I have enough water on my hands, I get light, fluffy bubbles that quickly turn into a lotion-like lather.


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## grayceworks (Mar 29, 2014)

I have hair similar to what you describe. Very very thick and coarse. Except I recently cut it really short, up just past my shoulders. Was down to my waist for  years. And mine's curly -- curlier now that it's short.

Even short though, I still have to  use a good conditioner, or it likes to tangle. Less since I have been using soap bars regularly instead of shampoo. But I use either As I Am coconut co-wash for every other cleansing, or some other silicone-free conditioner, because silicones build up and are hard to wash out without synthetic detergents. But the coco-betaine in the As I Am stuff works well for a gentle cleanser. 

I "lather" with the conditioner and scrub my scalp, then leave it sit on my hair in the shower while I finish up everything else, and rinse last. Sometimes, I will add a bit more and only partly rinse that out, so that it is like a leave-in conditioner. Works wonders on my very coarse curly hair.  

Also, I found that my lotion recipe which contains BTMS is very nice on  my hair for a leave-in also. Add while sopping wet, along with whichever gel I'm using, like a flax-seed gel, which is awesome for coarse thick hair. then pile it up in a micro-fiber towel (nicer to your hair's cuticle than terry-cloth) and go about my routine until it's almost dry. 

Long hair is a lot of work. I miss my long hair though. I think I'm gonna have to let this haircut grow out. lol


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## FlybyStardancer (Mar 29, 2014)

I've cut my hair short before... I hate it. lol I can't pull my hair back into a ponytail and get it to stay there until it's mid-shoulder blades. Also, if I go short then I need to wash it every morning, or else I spend the whole day with horrible bed head. Not even just wetting it works, it has to be washed. I'm not enough of a morning person to handle that.


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## FlybyStardancer (Apr 9, 2014)

So, I'm a couple weeks into this switch... My hair is still caught up in FHS. It's still feeling like it's shellacked, and just plain unpleasant to touch.

I'm cranking up the amount of citric acid I dissolve in the rinse. I started with 1/24th tsp for 1 pint water. Today I added 1/4tsp instead. I'm also using my purified drinking/cooking water for the rinse, instead of the liquid rock coming out of the tap.

Anyone have any tips for managing it until I'm past this hurdle? It's been looking horrible, and I've been embarrassed to go into work with it like this. I'm a receptionist, so I'm the first face clients see when they walk into the office. Having unruly hair just doesn't work well.


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## Susie (Apr 9, 2014)

Lather, rinse, repeat.  You missed the most basic step.  The repeat.

When you wash with anything, the first lathering just removes the surface junk.(dust, hair spray, products, pollens, etc)  It binds with it.  That is why the lather just disappears.  When you rinse the junk out, then re-lather, THEN is when it gets down to the scalp and the hair shaft.  That is when you will see good lather.  

I rub my shampoo bar straight onto my hair.  Both times.  It seems to lather better and saves a bunch of time.


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## inkyfingers (Apr 10, 2014)

Hi all, I'm a new member and this is my first post, but I thought I'd post because I can totally relate.

 I went no 'poo (wash with aloe vera gel and honey) in November 2013, and couldn't handle the unpredictability of sometimes having a wash last me for 8 days, and sometimes only 2.  It was necessary because of scalp irritation worsening with regular shampoo, despite trying several different kinds.

 I made my first bar of soap only 6 weeks ago, and 3 weeks ago I made Soap Queen's pH balanced shampoo bars.  I was supposed to let it cure for a whole 10 weeks, but I just couldn't wait that long.  So when the bars were 2 weeks old, I did the zap test on it, and it passed.  The first time I washed it, I couldn't get any lather (which is what I missed most about being no 'poo) but my hair still got clean.  5 days later, I washed again, but noticed I had let the shampoo bar sit in the badly designed soap dish.  The sludgy part of the bar is what I washed my hair with.  Best lather in my life, and not one spot went unwashed.

 I do find I need an apple cider vinegar rinse, or I'm a tangled mess.  My hair is also thick and past waist length.

 It doesn't feel dry or static-y.

 So maybe you should give the sludgy underside of the bar a go?


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## FlybyStardancer (Apr 10, 2014)

Susie, I did try that once. I used my pure coconut bar for the first wash (hoping that the super-cleansing power of the coconut would help get the worst gunk off), and then the dedicated bar for the second. I didn't really notice any difference, but I might as well try it again.

inkyfingers, welcome to the forum! And man, I don't get any sludgy underside! My shower is a tub/shower combo, and it has two sets of shelving on the long side, one at either end. I put my bars on the top shelf of the shelving on the far side from the shower head, and the shelf is ridged to allow the soaps to dry. It's not perfect (sometimes the soaps stick), but it does allow them to dry. I used up the last of the little partial bar from the batch, so next time I wash my hair I'll be using one of the full-size bars for the first time, and they'll be 6 weeks old by that point.


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## grayceworks (Apr 10, 2014)

I have noticed that some of my recipes have to almost drown for a few minutes to get a good lather, and some will lather just barely wet. 

The one that I like best... umm... I don't think I can choose. It depends on how my hair is acting. I like my 98% coconut/2% cocoa butter, with a 20% SF (no salt) for general use. Cleans good, tons of lather, doesn't leave my skin feeling stripped, leaves my hair soft and shiny --- but still needing a conditioner or it's frizzy. I use it once a week on my hair. Other times I  use one of my other ones, still experimenting, but less cleansing and no need for leave-in conditioner. I don't use a vinegar rinse with any of them. I probably should maybe, but I'm lazy. lol

I tried one of my salt bars that was the same recipe as above, but with salt, and I'm not sure I like the salt. It LOOKS good after it dries, seems to make my curls clump together more or something, but they don't FEEL soft and silky, they feel stiff or something. I imagine like what they'd feel like with some of those beach-hair salt spray things. I'd rather have soft and frizzy than defined and stiff. 

But ideally, I'd like defined and soft. I might just have to start making my flax gel again, but I've been tired and gotten used to not putting extra stuff on my hair lately.


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## FlybyStardancer (Apr 10, 2014)

I make two uses worth of rinse at a time. It's still extra work, but it's better than having to make it every time. With my hair still going through the funky stage, it's really hard to tell how I need to adjust what I do.

I tried my coconut bar once, before I was ready to make the switch, and after that time my hair felt like straw. I'm starting to use my light leave-in conditioner though. I wasn't really sure if that was a good idea or not, but I needed to do something.


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## Susie (Apr 10, 2014)

I don't use an acidic rinse.  I use store bought conditioner.  My hair is long, dry, and naturally curly/frizzy.  I go through LOTS of conditioner.  I may at some point need to use an acidic rinse, but not yet. I am not ruling out the possibility of needing it at some point, and indeed keep some citric acid in the bathroom, just in case.

I use basically the Lindy recipe posted elsewhere in the forums.  Not exactly that, but really close.  High conditioning, low cleansing.  I only wash my hair once a week because it is so dry.  I know someone is saying "yuck" and envisioning oily hair, but trust me when I say there is no oil, even on the scalp, at the end of a week.  

My sister-in-law has oily hair, and she uses my shampoo bars.  Same recipe.  She has stopped having to wash her hair every day, and now only washes every 2-3 days because of the shampoo bars.   I don't understand how or why one bar works for both types of hair, but there you have it.


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## FlybyStardancer (Apr 11, 2014)

I'm using the lindy bar, only I subbed mango butter for the shea, and jojoba for one of the liquid oils... Soy, maybe? I also did an infusion with the OO, made a tea for the water, added citric acid to the lye-water to made sodium citrate to help with rinsing out the soap in hard water...

My hair is certainly on the dry side, but after three-four days it's noticeably oily. My normal cycle is washing every 2-3 days, and I've been doing a steady two day cycle since switching to hopefully help get rid of the gunk faster.

And I washed my hair tonight, and switched up my lathering technique... For the first time I got thick full lather like an SLS shampoo! (And that was with both coconut oil soap and my shampoo bar, I hadn't been able to get either to really lather up my hair before). And after rinsing out my hair felt much better. The last several times I've washed it I could feel the gunk even while it was sopping wet. This time I didn't start feeling it until after giving it a brisk towel-dry. I have it up in a hair-twist towel to dry some more overnight. 

Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of the hair funk!


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## Saponista (Apr 11, 2014)

I tried a variety of different shampoo bars, but every one left my hair feeling really weird, kind of springy and rubbery. I just couldn't stand it. I went back to standard shop bought shampoo. It's such a shame as I would have loved to get it right. I have very very fine hair and I think it was ending up coated with too much oil. Do you rinse with neat apple cider vinegar?


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## shunt2011 (Apr 11, 2014)

I too am unable to use shampoo bars.  I have thick, course, somewhat curly, color treated hair and it just did not work for me.  My husband loves them for his hair.


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## FlybyStardancer (Apr 11, 2014)

Verdict this morning--it seems like last night's battle got rid of most of the gunk from the top of my hair, around my scalp! I could still feel it a further down on the shaft, but I also wasn't as vigorous in my working the later on that area so that might be why. I can actually touch the top of my head without cringing at the feel! Whoo!

Saponista--I don't use the ACV neat. When I was using it I was diluting it into water (I started with 1 Tbsp into 1 cup water, upped it to twice that before switching to citric acid). I have heard of some using a rinse that was 1:1 ACV to water, though that doesn't seem to be the norm. ACV, even the cheap stuff, just seems way to expensive to use straight as a rinse.

shunt2011--I'm sorry it didn't work out for you! My hair is thick and coarse too, and closer to wavy than curly (though it's edging closer to curly since I started with acidic rinses). I don't color treat my hair, though!


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## Obsidian (Apr 11, 2014)

Its possible that the addition of jojoba is leaving more a film since its actually a liquid wax. I used Ginny's bar for a few months but it left too much residue. My last batch I replaced the soy with 5% coconut and 5% neem. It raised the cleansing number from 0 to 3, just enough to clean a little more. Its a much better bar for my hair which is fine but thick and wavy.


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## FlybyStardancer (Apr 11, 2014)

It may be the case, though I'm going to hold back my opinion of how well the shampoo bar works until I can tell if it's the shampoo bar or from transitioning. I hope it's not the jojoba--I used it in the conditioner I made too.


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## DiddlyO (Apr 12, 2014)

Did you make sure you got all of the silicones off before you went no-poo? I had the same problem with the nasty sticky hair through the length. My hands looked like I had waxed them after I 'washed' my hair - the water beaded. I gave up and bought some of the cheapest SLS laden shampoo I could find and used that for 2 weeks with a nice silicone free 'natural' conditioner (moogoo). The stuff that came off my hair in that first SLS wash was unreal. I'm now using the moogoo shampoo and conditioner until my shampoo bar cures (just made it today). I'm hoping by then that all of the nasty waxes and silicones from my old conditioners and products will have washed off and I'll have a better time of it. I've also switched to avocado oil as my hair 'product' for heat protectant - apparently it's got a really high smoke point, and I'm not adding more silicone, which needs a detergent to be removed.


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## FlybyStardancer (Apr 12, 2014)

The shampoo I was using just before I switched to my bar (H&S 2in1 Dry Scalp Care with Almond) had plenty of SLSes and silicones...

I don't need a heat protectant, thankfully, since I don't use any sort of heat stylers on my hair.


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## grayceworks (Apr 12, 2014)

The silicones build up and leave a residue. That's why you have to use a cleanser that can actually remove silicones in order to get rid of the gunk before you go no-poo.  Either an sls shampoo WITHOUT any of the -cones or -xanes or other silicones,  or something with coco-betaine should do the trick. Can't use a shampoo with silicones in it still, it defeats the purpose of trying to get rid of the built up goo


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## FlybyStardancer (Apr 12, 2014)

My understanding is that using a shampoo bar isn't going no-poo, it's changing what's used to clean the hair. And it seemed like the one-two pump of the two bars got rid of a lot of it, I just need to better work the lather through the areas that are still a bit gunky (which is localized to the back of my head, mostly on the strands. It's an area I have trouble really getting thoroughly anyways).


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## Saponista (Apr 12, 2014)

Just been to the supermarket and bought timotei no silicone shampoo and conditioner. Going to use the whole bottle up then start on my shampoo bars and see if there's any improvement.


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## AnnaO (Apr 13, 2014)

I'd like to pop into this thread if I may to recount my shampoo bar experience to date 

Four days ago I too began making the transition from silicon-laden shampoo and conditioner to a Genny-type shampoo bar (-thank you for generously sharing your recipe, Genny).

In my bar I have kept the oil proportions the same as the original recipe, but used sunflower oil instead of soybean, and lard instead of shea butter. Sunflower oil because I have been unable to source soybean oil locally, and lard because my OH has a sensitivity to shea butter. 
(I reasoned that should the bars not work out as shampoo, then my OH can use them as facial bars. He is prone to very dry skin while mine is oily. If all goes well though I shall treat myself to a proper shea butter version!)
I HP'd, used no fragrance or EO, and SF'd at 6%. 

After the first wash my hair felt vile. It combed out easily enough after rinsing, but once it was dry it soon settled down into being a gunk fest. It felt as though some semi-sticky gloop was holding it together. I combed it through as best I could and styled it in a plait, and then tried to forget about it 

Yesterday I washed my hair again. I stood in the shower and gazed at the bottle of shampoo on the shelf and wondered 'Should I?!'
Then on the spur of the moment I grabbed a 20% superfatted 100% coconut oil bar instead and washed my hair thoroughly with that. It felt so great to have loads of lovely lather! After rinsing I washed my hair once again, but this time with the shampoo bar. 

I didn't use conditioner or acid rinse, and my hair combed through easily. Once it was completely dry it felt a whole lot better. 
I'm not 100% happy with how it feels, it still seems a tad 'tacky' in places, but at least when I move my head it 'swishes' around again like hair should, rather than being glooped together like some great mutant dreadlock, and it does feel clean and fresh now, which it didn't before. 

It feels so nice having an itch-free scalp - for over twenty years now I have quickly developed a sensitivity to it seems every shampoo I have ever used, and it feels so good to have an itch-free, non-cracking, non-flaking scalp 

That is the main reason I hope the shampoo bar works out for me. I think the coconut soap helped shift some of the gunk (-silicon?) residue from my hair. It felt so very unpleasant beforehand and I did wonder if it was worth carrying on! 

Next time I wash my hair I'll use the coconut soap again, followed by the shampoo bar. Ultimately I hope to use the shampoo bar alone. 

I forgot to say that we are lucky to have soft water here. 
Also my hair is long, I do not dye or blow dry it, and while it is adjusting to the new regime I will keep it plaited, I think I'll go for the Rapunzel look


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## FlybyStardancer (Apr 13, 2014)

After today's shampoo, trying to focus on the area where there's still gunk... Still didn't get it completely off. I think the almost-gone shampoo I had bought to wash non-machine-washable wool knits is silicone-free, though. Might try a localized application of it next time. (It's from the Suave Naturals line up.)

The places where the previous wash got rid of the gunk are very soft after today's wash, and I didn't even have time to put my leave-in conditioner in it!


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## AnnaO (May 16, 2014)

I'm now 5 weeks into using my Shampoo Bar (- as per Genny's original recipe, albeit with no EOs or FOs, and Lard instead of Shea), and things are slowly improving 
(Btw, I normally need to wash my hair every 5-6 days, it's long, I don't blow-dry, and my scalp tends towards dry rather than greasy).

Up until last week, every time I combed my hair (- I have long, slightly wavy hair, which I comb with either a rake or a wide-toothed comb), a thin layer of greyish-white residue would collect on and coat the inner edges of the comb teeth. This residue I could scrape off with my fingernail, and could be collected and squished together like putty :Kitten Love:
I'm not using conditioner, and I don't use any styling products, or colour my hair, so I assume the grey squidgy stuff was some kind of silicone residue (?)

I do think that this residue was the cause of my personal funky hair syndrome, when my hair was tacky and glooping together, and also the cause of the weird staticy effects (- I had unusually static, flyaway hair for the first few weeks). 
It's definitely clearing now though, and just small amounts the mystery gunk are collecting on my comb, and I've been wearing my hair loose again, as the tackyness has just about completely gone 

My scalp dermatitis has cleared up completely, and for the first time in years, my scalp is not flaking or cracked or raw. I can't say how great that feels!
I am shocked though at what had been building up on my hair, I always though shampoos were there to clean, not leave a build-up of gunky residue...


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## Saponista (May 16, 2014)

I had the same silicone residue, looked like dandruff bits in my hairbrush. Now I seem to have washed it all off, it took about two weeks with shop bought silicone free shampoo. I have now started using my own shampoo bar with a citric acid rinse (instead of vinegar as I don't like the smell). My hair has never felt better, it is smooth and shiny and I now only have to wash it every other day rather than daily.


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## Obsidian (May 16, 2014)

Anna, are you still using the coconut soap bar? If so, thats possibly where the gunk is coming from. With a 20% SF, a lot of oils are getting left in your hair. Your regular shampoo bar is low cleansing and it just can't wash all that excess oil away at once.


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## Skatergirl46 (May 16, 2014)

Saponista said:


> I tried a variety of different shampoo bars, but every one left my hair feeling really weird, kind of springy and rubbery. I just couldn't stand it. I went back to standard shop bought shampoo. It's such a shame as I would have loved to get it right. I have very very fine hair and I think it was ending up coated with too much oil. Do you rinse with neat apple cider vinegar?



My hair is like yours. I have tried several shampoo bar recipes but they all leaving my hair feeling stripped, yet strangely oily and straw like. Yuck. I wish I could figure this out. I have never tried adding citric acid but I suspect my problem might be with the pH.


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## AnnaO (May 16, 2014)

Obsidian said:


> Anna, are you still using the coconut soap bar? If so, thats possibly where the gunk is coming from. With a 20% SF, a lot of oils are getting left in your hair. Your regular shampoo bar is low cleansing and it just can't wash all that excess oil away at once.



Hello Obs 
I used my coconut bar just the one time, which was the second time I used the shampoo bar. Although I think it did help me move away from the 'one solid dreadlock' look, I didn't want to use such a high cleansing bar on my hair any more than was absolutely necessary, and yes being 20% superfat, it will have left a residue all of its own. Thank you for pointing that out 

I have very long hair, which would mean proportionally more residue being left on my comb too. 

Interestingly I've had the same 'funky hair syndrome' once a few years ago, when I  switched brands of shampoo, from Head and Shoulders (I think - not 100% certain, as I've used so many?) to a much cheaper, no-frills, supermarket own brand. At the time I held the 'new' shampoo responsible, and returned it to the shop... 

And as for that yucky feeling when you can't run your fingers through your hair, because strands suddenly decide to stick together (- this is what I experienced anyway)... I think that 'funky hair syndrome' is a very apt name for it


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## DawninWA (May 18, 2014)

My hair LOVES shampoo bars, by my scalp hates coconut oil (and SLS, which is why I wanted to use shampoo bars).  I tried just buying one without coconut oil, but I couldn't find one in my search.  They all work for a few tries then start to irritate.  Some brands are better than others.  I tried a 100% coconut oil soap once, before I knew, ouch!  

That's why I am here, I decided to make my own.  I wanted to keep the oils very basic.  Partly because I don't know what I am doing yet and didn't want to waste a bunch of expensive oils if I screwed up .  I used Lard and Castor oil, but I just made it last night so it will be a while until I can try it.

I use a vitamin c rinse instead of vinegar or citric acid.  No real reason other than because I had a bunch of pure vitamin c crystals left over from a film developing project a couple years ago .  Works well and doesn't smell like anything.


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## FlybyStardancer (May 18, 2014)

It took a while for the FHS to go away, but it finally did! Eventually what got rid of it was a double-whammy of washing with first my 20%SF 100% CO soap, and then my shampoo bar. Now I'm just using my shampoo bar and doing a citric acid rinse. My hair feels wonderful on the  day of washing, but then is on the dry side the next day. Doing a CO treatment before washing seems to help with that, though I don't necessarily want to do that every time I wash my hair! When I remember I'll comb a conditioner I made through my hair on the non-wash days to battle the dryness.

I have found that leaving the lather from the shampoo bar on my hair a few minutes before rinsing it off leaves my hair feeling better than just lathering up and rinsing immediately.


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## neeners (May 19, 2014)

Skatergirl46 said:


> My hair is like yours. I have tried several shampoo bar recipes but they all leaving my hair feeling stripped, yet strangely oily and straw like. Yuck. I wish I could figure this out. I have never tried adding citric acid but I suspect my problem might be with the pH.



have you tried a low SF soap?  I made my poo' bar with 3% simply because I have fine-ish very straight hair.  I was told by a hairdresser recently not to over-condition my hair b/c it would be too heavy.  so when I formulated my poo' bar, I kept that in mind and it seems to be working....

 so my poo' bar one month in is doing well.  better now that it's cured for longer.  I have slight tackiness in my hair (I haven't ever had that one dredlock syndrome), hoping that will go away soon.  sometimes I "condition" with half a lemon/lime.  I get oily scalp, so I just lather by the scalp.


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## Skatergirl46 (May 19, 2014)

neeners said:


> have you tried a low SF soap?  I made my poo' bar with 3% simply because I have fine-ish very straight hair.  I was told by a hairdresser recently not to over-condition my hair b/c it would be too heavy.  so when I formulated my poo' bar, I kept that in mind and it seems to be working....
> 
> so my poo' bar one month in is doing well.  better now that it's cured for longer.  I have slight tackiness in my hair (I haven't ever had that one dredlock syndrome), hoping that will go away soon.  sometimes I "condition" with half a lemon/lime.  I get oily scalp, so I just lather by the scalp.



Yes, my last shampoo bar was 3%SF. I have to use a cream rinse conditioner or a light leave-in conditioner or I can't comb my hair out.


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## neeners (May 20, 2014)

mine get tangly when wet, then smooths out when dry.  hmmm.  rub a lemon in your hair?  I find that helps....


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## Obsidian (May 20, 2014)

Skatergirl46 said:


> Yes, my last shampoo bar was 3%SF. I have to use a cream rinse conditioner or a light leave-in conditioner or I can't comb my hair out.



My hair is pretty tangled when wet but feels fine once its dry. I find using a acidic rinse really helps with the tangles. 
If its not quite enough, I use a tiny amount of leave in condition mixed in water to rinse with. I do a additional plain water rinse so I don't have too much conditioner in my hair.


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## AnnaO (May 20, 2014)

From the first time using my shampoo bars, immediately after each washing my hair has been tangle-free and combs through easily when wet without a conditioner or acid rinse. But we do have very soft water here and my hair is not bleached or coloured so that may well influence this. 
In the early days it was only when my hair had dried that the FHS would set in, and the hairs started clumping together in a really-difficult-to-describe way, like some kind of hybrid combination of staticy cling and a heavy, dragging tackiness, but without any visible oiliness or greasyness. 

Now, having more or less come out of the other side of FHS, my hair feels silky and smooth, and I'm soo happy to be able to wear it loose again  

When I used to use bottle shampoo, unless I used a conditioner my hair would be tangly when wet. Only when it was almost completely dry would it smooth out and be combable. I didn't condition every wash as conditioner aggravated my scalp dermatitis flare-ups.  

All being well, I'm hoping to stick with my original batch of shampoo bars for another couple of months or so. I'll play things by ear, and if my hair starts tangling then I'll acid rinse. 
Then I'll take a raincheck on the overall condition of my hair (- individual hair strands as well as scalp), and take things from there. Hopefully I'll ditch the lard for shea butter and adjust the cleansing or SF if need be, and maybe add Rosemary EO...
I really hope to continue being able to use shampoo bars, as the difference in my scalp has been utterly remarkable 

Has anyone here used the Genny shampoo bars for a good while? It would be interesting to know how someone's hair has actually fared long-term, in terms of any strand damage etc. I was at first wary of using soap on my hair, due to the high pH, but at the moment I am so very glad I made the change, as my hair and scalp seem to be absolutely loving it


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## jules92207 (May 20, 2014)

I made Genny's bar back in Feb/March I think and while it took a while for my hair to adjust, I had a few weeks of crazy sticky dread like slicks, it did eventually work itself out. Now I only wash a few times a week, no rinse, no conditioner, and love my hair. The trick for me is lather, if I rush it sometimes it still feels greasy sticky, but nothing like when it was adjusting. Just slightly heavier than normal.

I would rate my hair pretty normal, I eventually get oily scalp after a few days but the longer I wait to wash the longer it takes to get oily the next time.

I do get the strange film on my hair brush sometimes but it has lessened. I blame it on my rushing and not fully lathering and rinsing.


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## Skatergirl46 (May 27, 2014)

A few weeks for your hair to adjust? I have never stuck with it that long. My hair just feels so nasty I can't stand it. Is there anyone with very fine hair who has been successful with finding the right recipe? Either I seem to have a dry but greasy mess or it just feels stripped and nasty. This was my most recent attempt at shampoo bars:

Avocado Oil     30%	
Castor Oil	     10%	
Olive Oil	     40%	
Shea Butter    10%	
Cocoa Butter   10%
3%SF	

I would love to say goodbye to commercial shampoo if I can just ge the right recipe for my hair. BTW my husband uses my soap for his hair also. He has a completely different type of hair though.


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## Seawolfe (May 27, 2014)

I have super fine hair, and for some reason my salt bars (80 % salt, 20% SF one is 80% CO, 15% shea and 5% Castor, the other is 15% OO instead of shea) work really well on my hair. Though I do do use ACV rinse. Now that my Genny's bars have cured a while they are working better for me as well,  but the salt bars get my hair clean without feeling dry.

I think you just have to experiment to find what works for you.


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## Skatergirl46 (May 27, 2014)

Seawolfe said:


> I have super fine hair, and for some reason my salt bars (80 % salt, 20% SF one is 80% CO, 15% shea and 5% Castor, the other is 15% OO instead of shea) work really well on my hair. Though I do do use ACV rinse. Now that my Genny's bars have cured a while they are working better for me as well,  but the salt bars get my hair clean without feeling dry.
> 
> I think you just have to experiment to find what works for you.



You're using the 20% SF salt bar on your hair? It's not an oily mess at 20% SF?


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## Susie (May 27, 2014)

Skatergirl46 said:


> A few weeks for your hair to adjust? I have never stuck with it that long. My hair just feels so nasty I can't stand it. Is there anyone with very fine hair who has been successful with finding the right recipe? Either I seem to have a dry but greasy mess or it just feels stripped and nasty. This was my most recent attempt at shampoo bars:
> 
> Avocado Oil     30%
> Castor Oil	     10%
> ...



The problem may be that you keep swapping between commercial stuff and your shampoo bars. Every time I have to use commercial stuff for whatever reason, I just go ahead and wash my hair 4-5 times to de-gunk it and get FHS over with.


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## Seawolfe (May 27, 2014)

Skatergirl46 said:


> You're using the 20% SF salt bar on your hair? It's not an oily mess at 20% SF?


Nope  In fact it feels like I got one of those expensive texturing treatments (wotsit called, the Brazillian blowout?). And its lovely and soft, not stringy and oogy.


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## Saponista (May 27, 2014)

I have really fine hair and I rinsed all the waxes and silicones out by using silicone free shop bought shampoo first. My hair has never been better. I made shampoo bars with a load if spare oils I had knocking around. I used 8 different oils and superfatted at 5% the main constituents were palm and olive. 

I really did persevere with washing the commercial stuff out completely first though so there is no residue.


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## Rowan (May 27, 2014)

I was so relieved when I read about funky hair. I tried to wash my hair once with a Bastille soap/ACV rinse and ended up with a semi solid mess. Not knowing about FHS I didn't persevere.  My DH didn't have the same problem but found his scalp was still a little itchy with normal cp soaps. So I decided to make the Opus beer shampoo bar from great soapworks. It's cured for 4 weeks now. DH used it yesterday. The lather is amazing and he said it's the first time he's not had an itchy scalp.

My scalp is also quite itchy, so I'm tempted to try again. In preparation I started using a silicone free shampoo, based on the information posted on this thread (which has been an amazing source of information). However I'm really nervous of using shampoo soap again. I have very thick dark hair that has been coloured. I'm pretty sure it really lightened the colour last time, which wasn't great! Does anyone else have coloured hair and experience the same problem? We're also in a hard water area.  If not l will give it a go again, albeit with a bit of trepidation. I love the idea of not having an itchy scalp!


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## Rowan (May 27, 2014)

Oops, I meant great cakes soap works.


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## Skatergirl46 (May 27, 2014)

Susie said:


> The problem may be that you keep swapping between commercial stuff and your shampoo bars. Every time I have to use commercial stuff for whatever reason, I just go ahead and wash my hair 4-5 times to de-gunk it and get FHS over with.



Ah, ok. I guess I'm going to have to just get the FHS over with and wear a pony tail and hat for a while. Would you recommend that I lather up and then rinse it more than once each time I wash it? ….and please help me out with the ratio of vinegar to water for the rinse?

I forgot to say that we have very hard water here where I live.


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## Seawolfe (May 27, 2014)

Skatergirl46 said:


> Ah, ok. I guess I'm going to have to just get the FHS over with and wear a pony tail and hat for a while. Would you recommend that I lather up and then rinse it more than once each time I wash it? ….and please help me out with the ratio of vinegar to water for the rinse?
> 
> I forgot to say that we have very hard water here where I live.



I use 1 part ACV to 3 parts water in a ketchup squeezy bottle. I do rinse it out with water too

 I don't know about hard water but I'm guessing a salt bar might help because they put salt in water softeners?


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## Obsidian (May 27, 2014)

I would recommend lathering twice and make sure your shampoo bars are 5% SF or under. I don't use a very strong vinegar rinse, about 1 Tsp to 1 cup water. If it doesn't seem like enough, you can make it stronger.


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## batty (May 27, 2014)

Has anyone who has very hard water gotten over the FHS? I tried shampoo bars, no-poo, co-poo, basically anything I could to get away from silicones and sulphates. But I have hard water. The only things that worked were 1)using bottled water with a shampoo bar....that did not last long  2) co-poo or conditioner washing, did this for about a year and 3) Now I just buy organic shampoo.
I spent way too long trying to go no-poo or using a shampoo bar and the FHS never got better. In fact I used one of my soaps yesterday in a fit of curiosity, to wash out some chlorine from my hair. I even tried the citric acid rinse and nope- dry, tangled straw as if it was day 1 of FHS, but my hair has no silicones, no product, nothing on it. I am convinced that the hard water just puts soap-scum on the hair and an acid wash really can't get it off. I'd love to know if and how those of you with very hard water succeed with shampoo bars (I would love to make and use them!)


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## FlybyStardancer (May 29, 2014)

I managed to get through FHS with liquid rock for water. Took about five-six weeks. I use bottled water when I make my rinse though, 1/4 tsp citric acid for 2 cups water. I'm thinking of upping the amount of acid slightly, though.


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## Dahila (Jun 5, 2014)

I use Linda's shampoo bar (I can not find the link) after 12 weeks of curing it is wonderful.  I was dealing with hair loss for over 3 years.  I am using the shampoo bar over two months and my fine hair  stopped falling.  I can manage it easier, than after using Nioxin shampoo and conditioner (pretty expensive) , forumulated for hair loss.   
I think the absence of strong chemicals in my shampoo is the key)


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## FlybyStardancer (Jun 17, 2014)

Okay, so after several months, my hair has fully transitioned, but now something else has cropped up.

I can't tell if it's too much superfat or soapscum on my hair. I've been switching between my variant of the lindy bar and my coconut oil bar, because it's getting harder and harder to get the lindy bar to lather in my hair, and I struggle to get the soap distributed without the help of lathering. My hair feels heavy and coated, but only very slightly in an oily way. It's also putting up resistance when I comb it, which it wouldn't be doing if it were truly oily. My hair has also been very dry, in like forever, but it hasn't felt dry in the past week or so, even with me stretching out days between washings.

I do have insanely hard water, so soap scum isn't out of the realm of possibility, even with the sodium citrate in the bar and the strong citric acid rinse I use after rinsing out the soap.

Any suggestions for cheap cleansers that I could use every now and then, until I get to a place with softer water? Something that wouldn't send me straight back into FHS-land.


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## Seawolfe (Jun 17, 2014)

Do you have salt or other bars you can try? Would borax help? i want to try this rinse: http://campwander.com/2013/03/thicker-softer-hair-with-rosemary-apple/


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## FlybyStardancer (Jun 18, 2014)

I'd never heard of using borax in a rinse. I don't have any salt bars (yet!), sadly... I'm using the citric acid instead of the ACV. I'd read that it should be what ends up being 1/32-1/24tsp of citric acid for 2 cups of water... What I've used the last couple of times has been 1/2 tsp of citric acid for the same amount of water.


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## Elaine (Jun 18, 2014)

Hi
I know when I first started using shampoo bars,effect was..well not too pleasant. It did go away after awhile, but before that,I would use conditioner plus I used a leave in conditioner from Lush, the R & B hair treatment and it helped tremendously as well as getting me hooked on it now.


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## paillo (Jun 19, 2014)

Well, I tried a shampoo bar from a very accomplished soapmaker whose bars I've been ogling for some time. She uses a high percentage of coconut oil, and my hair feels straw-like today, especially the ends. 

And, OK, I'll share my recipe:

Oils of Olive/Rice bran, Avocado, Castor.  Herb-infused tea (or infused beer).
Coconut or Goat milk.  Sodium  hydroxide. Shea butter.  Oils of Babassu, Jojoba, Argan, Broccoli seed.  
Essential oils. Kaolin clay.  Citric acid, Sodium lactate, Tussah silk, Dl-Panthenol, 
Silk amino acids, Honeyquat, Sugar.  
Next time I want to make a weak Soleseife version.

I honestly have to say it's the best shampoo I've ever used. Tons of lather, glossy and thicker feeling when dry. No stripping, drying, brittleness, straw, itchy scalp or buildup. I can go at least a day longer without having to wash my hair. My hair's long, thick and unruly, and I do use a tiny bit of conditioner on the ends. I don't want to sound like a self-promoter, but I do love these ingredients, and I swear the smaller quantities of the exotic ones make all the difference in the world.


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## DiddlyO (Jun 29, 2014)

Has anyone tried a shampoo bars with pine tar in them? I've been using Genny's shampoo bar recipe but I'm getting itchy scalp.....


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## judymoody (Jun 29, 2014)

SkaterGirl, I have never been able to get CP shampoo bars to work for me.  My hair would feel great straight out of the shower and then within a few hours, it was a gunky matted tacky mess.  I tried maybe 10 different formulations with various oils, additives, and superfat %.  I tried various acidic rinses (which were unpleasant to use - I don't thrill to cold liquids while taking a hot shower).  I could have persevered for longer than a week at a time, but I didn't.  Instead I went to Swift's site (pointofinterest.blogspot.com) and learned how to make solid shampoo using mild synthetic detergents.  I also learned how to make solid conditioner bars.  My hair looks and feels great.

I envy those of you that were able to get CP soap to work with your hair.  But for those of you for whom it doesn't seem to work, I wouldn't beat yourself up about it.


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## Obsidian (Jun 29, 2014)

DiddlyO said:


> Has anyone tried a shampoo bars with pine tar in them? I've been using Genny's shampoo bar recipe but I'm getting itchy scalp.....



I had a bit of itchy scalp too so I took genny's original recipe and replaced the 10% soy with 5% coconut and 5% neem. Its a much better recipe for me and my scalp no longer itches. I also lowered the SF to 3%


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## Bex1982 (Jun 30, 2014)

This might have been asked already, but how much (in weight) citric acid to 8 oz water (by volume)? For the hair rinse.  Thinking I'll just put it in a spray bottle and keep it in the shower.


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## Susie (Jun 30, 2014)

Bex1982 said:


> This might have been asked already, but how much (in weight) citric acid to 8 oz water (by volume)? For the hair rinse.  Thinking I'll just put it in a spray bottle and keep it in the shower.



I would be afraid of pathogens growing in there if you saved it longer than 3 days.  Then be sure to run a 10% bleach solution or something through that bottle and sprayer straw/head before refilling.


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## Dahila (Jul 7, 2014)

Obsidian said:


> I had a bit of itchy scalp too so I took genny's original recipe and replaced the 10% soy with 5% coconut and 5% neem. Its a much better recipe for me and my scalp no longer itches. I also lowered the SF to 3%


I have some itchiness too.  I got a question Obsidian 
What oil is similar to neem oil.  I hate the smell of it, I am using it in the garden to spray the pests. I thought about 5% CO 
I have right now;  rice brain oil, sweet almond oil , babassu oil, fractioned CO;
Do you think soy oil is the one causing itchiness? 
I have also all kind of butters..


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## Obsidian (Jul 7, 2014)

There really isn't anything to sub for neem, you could try pine tar but it smells even worse. All the good healing compounds neem contains is probably what makes it stink so bad. I too hate the smell but at only 5%, the scent isn't too bad. I used a nice strong scent in my bar and it mostly covers it. The scent does fade a lot with time. I made unscented body soap with 25% neem and after 4 months, it doesn't smell at all.
I'll never make shampoo bars without neem, its been that good for me.

My scalp has always been itchy, the soy had nothing to do with it. I just don't care for soy in soap so I replaced it. If you scalp is getting itchy since you started using a shampoo bar, I would guess its not quite cleansing enough. Thats another reason I added the 5% coconut, the original recipe just didn't get my scalp quite clean enough.


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## Dahila (Jul 7, 2014)

Obsidian thank you, I must overcome my hate )Will add the 5%of CO. My soya oil is organic so no GMO which I avoid  Thank you


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## DiddlyO (Jul 7, 2014)

I made a new batch replacing the soy with pine tar and using aloe vera juice for water. I kept it at 6% SF and scented with lavender. It stinks. I've ordered some neem and will make a neem version too and will report back.

I've got all kinds of skin issues so I'm no stranger to itchiness - I have seborrheic dermatitis in my scalp and psoriasis. I had been using Selsun blue for years before starting my soap adventure. Currently using Moogoo until I can get this right. I've also switched from regular boxed hair dye to a henna/indigo mix.


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