# To Superfat Or Not to Superfat...That Is the Question



## thinkativeone (May 2, 2013)

Other than the unbelievably obvious title, that's pretty much my question. It came about this way, in (not word for word) conversation: 

Me: "I followed the general advice I read around, to superfat at 5%."
Experienced Soapmaker: "I never superfat anymore, anything above 2% (and that was pointless at that rate) gave me DOS and I knew for a fact my oils were very fresh, not rancid at all."
Me: "Huh. I'll have to do some reading on that." *did not even know what Dreaded Orange Spots were at the time* :crazy:

So is it really fine to not superfat at ALL? Will it save me on oils and prevent DOS? This came about from a conversation where I was discussing making my own 100% coconut oil soap for washing laundry (I make homemade laundry detergent - a Dr. Bronner's bar is part of it) and for washing dishes by hand (I wash dishes with Dr. Bronner's bar soap also and baking soda). Even my 5% superfatted 100% olive oil soap can make my skin dry. I make lotion bars and body butter too, so it might stand to reason I should just save the oil and keep using those moisturizers the same amount since my soap is not really moisturizing for me? I cannot think of a time a bar of soap ever felt moisturizing to me, with the exception of maybe Dove (yuck, personally, it left a clingy film).

I see everything from "Break the rules! Do a 20% superfat for your 100% coconut oil soap!" To, "0% superfat only if it is a strictly cleaning bar - but do not use it on your skin!" :Kitten Love:

I have another question but it might be better suited to a separate thread. Thanks for reading the lengthiness!  I appreciate your help so much.


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## jax1962 (May 2, 2013)

i might be inserting foot into gob here but i usually superfat at a massive 15% and i've only ever had one soap with dos - i now know it was because i has a high % of sunflower oil as i thought at the time it would make a nice white soap (it did, but a year later it's almost all orange lol!).  i even go as high as 20% if i've got a high % of coconut oil. perhaps the dos in your friend's soap was caused by humidity? or some people say that curing on cardboard may cause it?


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## mel z (May 2, 2013)

Since you were talking about laundry soap, super fatting is not necessary as you will not be using it on your skin.

Not calculating a super fat percentage does not save on oil. You will use the same amount. Super fat is there to make sure the lye gets all used up, just in case you get a couple grams over, issues with the lye, etc... It is there to cover that. 

I have found that 5% super fat is still a very drying to my skin bar and have now started using 8% to see how that goes. I have not noticed DOS, I think that comes about due to the types of oils used, how long the shelf life of the oils is, and how old the oil was to begin with. I could have missed some reasons for DOS and super fatting there.


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## new12soap (May 2, 2013)

Ohmygoodness. Yes Yes YES a million times YES you NEED to build superfat into recipes. Unless it is for laundry or dish soap where a little bit of excess lye won't hurt anything, for use on people you should _always _have some superfat (or lye discount) built into your recipes!

The reason for this is twofold; first of all, no kitchen scale is going to be completely totally 100% accurate.  Get a good one and keep it calibrated, but we are not making soaps in a lab with medical grade equipment here, small variances will happen! And in a small, home-sized batch of soap, say one pound, the difference between a 5% superfat and a 0% fat is usually something less than _one quarter of an ounce_ (depending upon your oils). We NEED that margin to cover even the smallest differences!

The second reason for a superfat is because saponification values are _averages_ only!  There is no one set value for any oil, because agricultural products will always vary from one year to the next, from one region to the next. The values given on any lye calculator are averages, not hard numbers. That is why if you put your recipe through several different calculators you will get back slightly different lye amounts! The sap value of YOUR oil may be higher or lower than that average, and there is no way to tell. Superfat gives you a range of protection to cover that possibility.  Read here http://cavemanchemistry.com/LyeDiscount-Dunn.pdf  A superfat of 5% is really the minimum level to give you insurance against being lye heavy.

As for DOS, that is not true that a higher superfat causes it. Not at all. http://cavemanchemistry.com/HsmgDos2006.pdf  If your experienced soapmaker friend was getting DOS it was because of another reason, not the superfat.  As for "breaking the rules" and superfatting a coconut oil soap at 20%, that is a fairly standard practice in soapmaking. When using oils that are more cleansing many soapers will raise the superfat level to offset the drying effects. And it is pretty easy to go that high with coconut oil because it is so very shelf stable. I routinely SF mine at 15%, then add coconut milk (with lots of fat to increase the SF level, I just don't do the math). Again, that is for use on skin, not laundry or dishes.

I agree with the previous poster, you are not "saving" any oil whether you do a superfat or not. Your batch size is based on total weight of oils, no matter when you add them (and putting them into CP after trace is just a waste of time and effort).  Superfat just means you use less lye for the oil amount.

I do not know why your 100% olive oil soap superfatted at 5% is drying to you. How long a cure does it have? Castile really should have at least a 6 month cure to be at its best.

Okay, sorry if this comes across as a lecture, there are just so many beginners that might think it is fine to just do away with a superfat and end up with a lye heavy soap! But I will step off my soapbox now   HTH


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## mel z (May 2, 2013)

Well said newsoap12! You are very good at 'splainin' things.


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## judymoody (May 2, 2013)

According to Kevin Dunn (Caveman Chemistry; Scientific Soapmaking), superfat level does not contribute to higher incidence of DOS.

I SF at 10%.  I've only gotten DOS twice - once when I was experimenting with fragrances and used a cheap recipe with Crisco.  The second time was 100% OO and I believe it was from the essential oils I used (citrus/lavender/cedar).  That was well after a year the soap was made for both problem batches.


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## thinkativeone (May 2, 2013)

Haha, relax...  The whole purpose of this thread was to find out if it was okay before I did it - I was not saying, "I heard this so I'm gonna do it!". The explanations make sense, thanks for all the great links and help everybody.  I do not fool around with lye!!  Seems the superfatting confuses a lot of people, but now I know that if anything, I guess with a superfat you might save a teensy bit on lye.  Who knew. I actually would use the coconut oil on my skin unintentionally because I would be washing dishes by hand, so would the 0% not be safe for that? I use a dishwasher sometimes but prefer to wash by hand.

To answer your question, my soap has a minimum cure time of 4 1/2 weeks before I use it. However, similar to what you said, I have noticed it is at its peak for me between 4-5 months. Just harder and more bubbly. But I have always loved bar soap and never found any bar of soap to be moisturizing, except for the one example that sort of fits that. I know that's probably weird.


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## Soapman Ryan (May 7, 2013)

new12soap said:


> I routinely SF mine at 15%, then add coconut milk (with lots of fat to increase the SF level, I just don't do the math).


new12soap;
Could I ask what oils you're using in your soap?


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## VanessaP (May 7, 2013)

Soapman Ryan said:


> new12soap;
> Could I ask what oils you're using in your soap?



The 15% superfat level she was talking about was for her 100% coconut oil soap, judging by the rest of that paragraph. The milk she adds has its own fats to add to help up her superfat up to near 20%. 100% coconut oil soaps have such a high superfat to help offset the stripping effect of the soap.


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## Soapman Ryan (May 7, 2013)

VanessaP said:


> The 15% superfat level she was talking about was for her 100% coconut oil soap, judging by the rest of that paragraph. The milk she adds has its own fats to add to help up her superfat up to near 20%. 100% coconut oil soaps have such a high superfat to help offset the stripping effect of the soap.



Would a 10% SF be too much for regular oils such as OO, CO, shea, castor and palm?


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## dagmar88 (May 8, 2013)

thinkativeone said:


> But I have always loved bar soap and never found any bar of soap to be moisturizing, except for the one example that sort of fits that. I know that's probably weird.



Meh. Soap is soap = cleansing.
Moisturising might not be the best word; 'less stripping' comes closer.


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## Brandica2013 (May 8, 2013)

*Thanks*



new12soap said:


> Ohmygoodness. Yes Yes YES a million times YES you NEED to build superfat into recipes. Unless it is for laundry or dish soap where a little bit of excess lye won't hurt anything, for use on people you should _always _have some superfat (or lye discount) built into your recipes!
> 
> The reason for this is twofold; first of all, no kitchen scale is going to be completely totally 100% accurate.  Get a good one and keep it calibrated, but we are not making soaps in a lab with medical grade equipment here, small variances will happen! And in a small, home-sized batch of soap, say one pound, the difference between a 5% superfat and a 0% fat is usually something less than _one quarter of an ounce_ (depending upon your oils). We NEED that margin to cover even the smallest differences!
> 
> ...


~OK As a newbie I want to say thank you for this info.I have been reading so much about SF & I have only done a few soaps but I SF @ 5% so I knew that but The info you just gave along with the PDF helped me so much & i understand it so much more. So this to me is not a lecture its a soaper really knowing what the heck she is talking about. This is a learning process and a-lot is hands on but I believe that other soapers that's been doing this a long time are the teachers for us new soapers and I value your opinion and information & if not for you all id be so lost...


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## Brandica2013 (May 8, 2013)

mel z said:


> Well said newsoap12! You are very good at 'splainin' things.



I agree 100% she splains things so us new soapers understand better


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## thinkativeone (May 8, 2013)

dagmar88 said:


> Meh. Soap is soap = cleansing.
> Moisturising might not be the best word; 'less stripping' comes closer.



I was thinking this but not saying it, wondering if that was the case.  

I wash my hands a LOT throughout the day. For my 100% OO castile soap, should I modify the 5% superfat to an 8%? Or more? Or is that just going to ruin it? I want to make a HUGE batch so it can cure for months before I use it. It really does get better with age.


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## Hazel (May 8, 2013)

I have dry skin and I used 7% SF (or lye discount depending on how you like to phrase it) when I made a 100% OO batch and I used buttermilk for the liquid. I found it very gentle and not drying at all. I calculated the fat in the buttermilk and I think it may have bumped the SF about 1%. It's just my opinion but I think 8% would be fine.


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## dagmar88 (May 9, 2013)

8% is fine.


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## sethkaylyn (Sep 3, 2014)

*Superfat?*

I'm ready to make a second batch of soap but not sure about superfatting. Which is the most recommended superfat to use?

My recipe I used for the first batch:

20% coconut oil
40% lard
35% oo
5%   Castor oil


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## Susie (Sep 3, 2014)

Wow, you necro'd this thread.  Next time it might be better to start a new one.  

Is the soap for someone with dry skin or oily/normal skin?  I use 5% for my normal skin.


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## shunt2011 (Sep 3, 2014)

I superfat 7-9% but use 15-22% Coconut/PKO Combination in most.  I've the perfect medium for my soap recipes.


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## jules92207 (Sep 3, 2014)

There is a lot of good advice on this thread, but I want to also say a lot of olive oil in soaps tend to feel drying to me too. I do think mine need a longer cure but I also think its just my skin. I don't do as well with oo as others. So I keep my olive oil around 40% in my soaps and fill in with avocado, butters, almond, rice bran, etc and I find them less drying. I also keep my sf around 5%. Just my 2 cents.


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## scotsman (Sep 3, 2014)

I may be off base here and it may have already been addressed in an earlier post, but my understanding is that superfatting up front in the recipe by way of a lye calculator doesn't cause you to add more oils but rather discounts the lye so you would be using the same weight of oils but a bit less lye. Again, I could be wrong here, and feel free to correct me if I am, but that was always my understanding from everything I've read over the years. Now superfatting after saponification on a hot process recipe...I believe that would add slightly to the oils you were using, although not by much unless you were cooking a particularly large batch.


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## cmzaha (Sep 3, 2014)

I keep my superfat around 2% and love the feel. I just adjust the the recipe to be more moisturizing, low cleansing. Also we found our plumbing is much better since I stopped the higher superfatting. With my turpentine laundry sticks I did a -4% (yes minus) and they do not zap or are they noticeably drying.


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## DeeAnna (Sep 3, 2014)

"...superfatting up front in the recipe by way of a lye calculator doesn't cause you to add more oils but rather discounts the lye so you would be using the same weight of oils but a bit less lye..."

"...Now superfatting after saponification on a hot process recipe...I believe that would add slightly to the oils you were using..."

Yes to both, Scotsman. Nicely said! 

Superfatting-by-using-less-lye is lye discount. 

Superfatting-by-adding-extra-fat-after-saponification is ... superfatting.

The extra fat left in the soap after either method is ... superfat. 

Real clear, ain't it?


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## scotsman (Sep 3, 2014)

Exactly. The drawback to the lye discount being that there's no way of knowing what percentage of what oil is left after saponification. Unless there is a way to calculate this that has escaped me, lol!


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## sethkaylyn (Sep 3, 2014)

Thanks everyone for all of your help!
It looks like I'll try to SF at 5%. 
I'm just not sure which one I'll use just yet. I also am concerned about using too much oils which may cause problems with plumbing in the future :-/


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## new12soap (Sep 3, 2014)

sethkaylyn said:


> Thanks everyone for all of your help!
> It looks like I'll try to SF at 5%.
> I'm just not sure which one I'll use just yet. I also am concerned about using too much oils which may cause problems with plumbing in the future :-/



It looks like a good recipe, 5% would be a good sf for it. I would put all the oils in at once and don't worry about which one to use for superfat. Even with HP it really doesn't make _that_ much difference IMO.

Unless there is something wrong with your plumbing already, handmade soap shouldn't hurt it at all.


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## sethkaylyn (Sep 3, 2014)

new12soap said:


> It looks like a good recipe, 5% would be a good sf for it. I would put all the oils in at once and don't worry about which one to use for superfat. Even with HP it really doesn't make _that_ much difference IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> Unless there is something wrong with your plumbing already, handmade soap shouldn't hurt it at all.




Thanks for your response  new12soap!

I'm going to try to find Shea butter locally.


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## DeeAnna (Sep 4, 2014)

"...no way of knowing what percentage of what oil is left after saponification. Unless there is a way to calculate this that has escaped me, lol! ..."

Nothing has escaped you on this issue -- one really doesn't know. Kevin Dunn did some experiments to explore this issue. The fats left in the soap after saponification were in different percentages than the fats that he started with.

The thinking used to be that adding an oil at trace "saved" that particular oil to be the superfat, but testing has shown this idea to not be correct. Saponification is just getting started nicely by the time a soap reaches trace, so there is a lot of lye still left in the batter to react with an oil added at trace. 

The only way to have a reasonable control of the superfat is to hot process using a zero lye discount and add the superfat after the cook.

I'm not that hung up on controlling what's in the superfat, but that's just me. To each their own.


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## scotsman (Sep 4, 2014)

I'm also not terribly concerned with what exactly is left from my super fat. For me it's more just a way to give myself a small insurance policy against being left with a lye-heavy soap. Even the obscenely expensive commercial digital scales are often off by a gram or two even with regular calibration. A gram or two may not make much of a difference in a 10lb batch of soap but if you're doing a 1lb test batch or even a single bar test batch a gram or two very well might mean the rubbish bin or a re-batch...and I detest re-batching.
Usually, if I'm looking to add particular qualities to a recipe that will survive the saponification process I will use cosmetic additives or incorporate an oil with a higher percentage of unsaponifiables such as avocado oil. I actually have a base recipe that only uses lard, CO, OO, and castor and it's one of the best soaps I've ever used. Heck, you could make a mighty fine two oil soap if you have at least a working knowledge of the chemistry behind the curtain and a general idea of what qualities each oil will bring to the table after saponification. When I first started out I spent months researching and learning everything I could about the chemistry of soap making before I even attempted my first batch. Even beyond it being invaluable information to know I also find it incredibly fascinating. I've always really dug chemistry, even as a young child. That's one of the reasons I pursued a career as a chef. Cooking, and especially baking, in its purest form is chemistry. The chefs who practice molecular gastronomy understand the chemistry of food on a much deeper level than most and are thus able to manipulate food in amazing and ingenious ways.


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## sethkaylyn (Sep 4, 2014)

scotsman said:


> I'm also not terribly concerned with what exactly is left from my super fat. For me it's more just a way to give myself a small insurance policy against being left with a lye-heavy soap. Even the obscenely expensive commercial digital scales are often off by a gram or two even with regular calibration. A gram or two may not make much of a difference in a 10lb batch of soap but if you're doing a 1lb test batch or even a single bar test batch a gram or two very well might mean the rubbish bin or a re-batch...and I detest re-batching.
> Usually, if I'm looking to add particular qualities to a recipe that will survive the saponification process I will use cosmetic additives or incorporate an oil with a higher percentage of unsaponifiables such as avocado oil. I actually have a base recipe that only uses lard, CO, OO, and castor and it's one of the best soaps I've ever used. Heck, you could make a mighty fine two oil soap if you have at least a working knowledge of the chemistry behind the curtain and a general idea of what qualities each oil will bring to the table after saponification. When I first started out I spent months researching and learning everything I could about the chemistry of soap making before I even attempted my first batch. Even beyond it being invaluable information to know I also find it incredibly fascinating. I've always really dug chemistry, even as a young child. That's one of the reasons I pursued a career as a chef. Cooking, and especially baking, in its purest form is chemistry. The chefs who practice molecular gastronomy understand the chemistry of food on a much deeper level than most and are thus able to manipulate food in amazing and ingenious ways.




Thanks for your information!
I have been reading lots of forums and watching lots of videos this past month and I finally built up the courage to do my first batch a week ago. My recipe is exactly what you stated (lard, CO, OO, and castor). 
I found this recipe from another soaper and this is one of her favorites. I am pleased with it and probably will use this one often. 

Cooking is a favorite of mine also. I live in southern Louisiana and down here we "live to eat". Lol


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## scotsman (Sep 5, 2014)

If you don't mind me asking, what % of each oil are you using? I do mine with 40% lard, 30% CO, 25% OO, & 5% castor. I know, the CO is higher than most people are comfortable using but honestly I've never had a single bar from this recipe ever be the least bit drying to the skin and these ones have been a consistent customer favorite even over ones with some of the more luxury oils/butters. Go figure. Often there is a wonderful elegance in simplicity. Why muck it up by overloading it with a million ingredients? I like simple, and apparently my customers do as well. I also don't generally do advanced coloring/swirling techniques in all but a few of the soaps I sell. The ones I use to practice coloring typically go as gifts to loved ones...assuming my fiancée doesn't bugger off with them before I get a chance to package them and send them out, lol!


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## rogue (Sep 5, 2014)

I wonder if the "too drying" just isn't truly a skin to skin (individual) effect. I was excited to decrease my massive lotion consumption in the winter months, but no. Even with a 20% super fat in my one bar as my girlfriends of colour would say I'm starting to look "ashy". Pretty funny for a super pale girl. My skin has zero oil content on its own past mid fall.


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## sethkaylyn (Sep 5, 2014)

scotsman said:


> If you don't mind me asking, what % of each oil are you using? I do mine with 40% lard, 30% CO, 25% OO, & 5% castor. I know, the CO is higher than most people are comfortable using but honestly I've never had a single bar from this recipe ever be the least bit drying to the skin and these ones have been a consistent customer favorite even over ones with some of the more luxury oils/butters. Go figure. Often there is a wonderful elegance in simplicity. Why muck it up by overloading it with a million ingredients? I like simple, and apparently my customers do as well. I also don't generally do advanced coloring/swirling techniques in all but a few of the soaps I sell. The ones I use to practice coloring typically go as gifts to loved ones...assuming my fiancée doesn't bugger off with them before I get a chance to package them and send them out, lol!




My recipe is 40% Lard, 20% OO, 35% CO, 5% Castor. Yesterday  I ordered Shea butter to superfat. I hope I'm happy with it. It isn't refined, it states that it's raw. I've read some people would rather the refined because the smell isn't as strong as unrefined. I look forward to experimenting in swirls and all the pretty designs but my biggest goal is to make sure the fragrance is strong enough. I'm all about fragrance!.


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## scotsman (Sep 5, 2014)

Your recipe is almost the same as mine, only a small difference in the % of OO & CO. Great minds think alike right? When I use shea butter I get the unrefined stuff as well. I've read a few places that the refining process destroys some of the beneficial qualities in it. I don't know if that's actually true or not, as there are quite a few erroneous ideas pervading the soap making community that are touted as fact so I would have to conduct more in-depth research before I would wholly believe that. But even if it is true, it then begs the question: How much of those beneficial qualities even survive the process of saponification anyway? In lotions and other leave-on type products the choice of oils due to their properties I imagine would be essential. I haven't really done anything but occasionally dabble in that arena of the industry as I live in Florida and our state laws prohibit selling anything that the FDA defines as a cosmetic unless you have a dedicated and state licensed manufacturing facility. The law prohibits selling cosmetic products manufactured in a residential space. While I do have a pretty cool workshop, and observe strict quality and safety protocols, at the end of the day it means nothing in the eyes of the law because my workshop is located in my home. Because of this I stick strictly to making only true soap and stick with ingredients whose qualities I know will, at least in part, survive the saponification process. I do sometimes use shea butter, but it's more for label appeal. Personally I haven't noticed much difference between my soap made with it and without it. That just could be me though because I've got skin as tough as a rhino anyway, lol! My fiancée, however, swears by my shea butter soap and says it does wonders for her skin. I do buy the unrefined stuff, but only because it is cheaper. I haven't noticed any issues with an unpleasant odor. It does have an aroma out of the container that can vary anywhere from nutty to slightly smoky depending on the individual batch you get. I wouldn't say it's unpleasant though and I've never had the aroma transfer through to the finished product. I imagine that all the beneficial properties of the shea butter would remain if you make hot process soap and use the shea to super fat after saponification, but I can't speak with anything more than theoretical knowledge on this as I don't make hot process soap. As it is I detest re-batching and avoid it like the plague. My understanding is that this process is similar to HP so, as of yet, I've avoided HP as well. I stick strictly to CP. I like it and it works well for me.


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## sethkaylyn (Sep 5, 2014)

Scotsman,

Yes I believe great minds do think alike...lol. 
Btw....do you superfat with the other oils or do you add them after saponification? I know some do with the others and some wait till the end. Not sure when I'll add mine. 

I think just out of curiosity, one day I will attempt HP. It looks so interesting and fun!


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## Hazel (Sep 7, 2014)

scotsman said:


> I do mine with *40% lard, 30% CO*, 25% OO, & 5% castor. I know, the CO is higher than most people are comfortable using but honestly I've never had a single bar from this recipe ever be the least bit drying to the skin



I had just been following this topic but I wanted to concur with scotsman that 40% lard, 30% CO makes a very nice  soap. Amazingly, I can make this with 5% superfat and it's still not  drying. I generally keep coconut at 25% or below when using water as liquid but I did experiment with a few batches by changing the percentages to increase CO. I found increasing lard and CO slightly was not drying for my skin and I have very dry skin. Now this is with lard because 30% CO with all veg oils was drying for my skin. However, my nephews liked this soap and didn't find it drying.

Everyone is different and what is preferred by one person isn't necessarily going to be considered a nice soap by another person. This is a good example of why we recommend tweaking percentages. I generally recommend 25% CO for people who are beginning to make soap since I don't know their preferences and I don't know how accurate they may be with weighing ingredients. Plus, I still use a lower CO percentage in facial bars but again, this is personal preference.

BTW, I can also increase CO percentage in bastile since olive is so conditioning.


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## DeeAnna (Sep 7, 2014)

"...40% lard, 30% CO makes a very nice soap. Amazingly, I can make this with 5% superfat and it's still not drying...."

Hazel's observation about different fats affecting mildness reinforces my thoughts. I think the specific types of fats in a recipe are just as or even more important as superfat to get a mild, non-drying soap. 

Hear, hear!


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## sethkaylyn (Sep 8, 2014)

Hazel and Deanna 

I'm just realizing I gave the wrong amounts. This is the recipe I use: 40% lard, 20% co, 35% oo, 5% castor. I had my co and lard mixed up. 
I read many times not to use more than 25% co or it could be too drying. 
I made my second batch today using this recipe and it's very easy to work with especially since I'm new at this addicting hobby...lol. 
I really need to find a good FO that smells good. I will be placing an order soon and so overwhelmed with all the scents. I would love to find a nice clean smelling FO.


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## scotsman (Sep 9, 2014)

Juniper Aloe from Elements Bath & Body is a nice, clean scent. Scent projects well in the finished product, even after a long cure. Manuka Lavender Body Wrap, Country Clothesline, and Rosemary Mint, also from EBB, are clean smelling and have a nice strong throw in cp soap. These FO's are also well-behaved. No discoloration, ricing, seizing, or trace acceleration. To the earlier question, my super fat is actually a lye discount, so that is factored in up front. I typically only use a 5-7% lye discount, so not really going to have any substantial excess of oils in the finished product. It's merely an insurance policy against a lye-heavy soap.


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## jade-15 (Sep 9, 2014)

So I was on page 2 and wrote a response... then realised that this thread goes up to page 4.
Have deleted my comment as it now makes no sense.

Be nice to me, I'm sick! 
(Maybe I should get off the forums until my head works again...)


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## sethkaylyn (Sep 9, 2014)

Thanks Scotsman. 
I think I'm finally starting to understand a bit more about the lye discount. 
I'm glad you mentioned the FOs. I was thinking of getting a lavender scent too.


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## scotsman (Sep 9, 2014)

The lavender scent that I mentioned isn't really a true-to-life lavender scent, but it is very clean and nice. If you are looking for a lavender scent that smells just like the flower, that same company carries one. They also have a very true-to-life hyacinth FO as well.


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## newbie (Sep 9, 2014)

The proper SF is just the one you happen to like. Some people here SF at -2%(yes, negative two percent) to 2% and do not get zapping soap. A bunch of us made -40% SF soap (made with excess water though), that did not zap and which some people found to not be drying, although others others did. If your soap doesn't pass the tongue test after cure, you should not use it on your body, but you might be surprised what happens to a low SF or even a low negative SF soap.


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## AKjulz (Sep 10, 2014)

Newbie, curious as to why you would do a negative SF?  I can't puzzle out what the benefit would be...other than to experiment


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## DeeAnna (Sep 10, 2014)

^^ I second what Newbie said!

A big advantage of a negative superfat (lye excess) is that it ensures there is no unsaponified fat left in the finished soap.

For example, the -40% SF soap recipe originated as a way to use up olive oil that had been previously used for cooking. Used fats are more prone to going rancid, so it's a good idea to fully saponify the fat rather than leave some in the finished soap. Not sayin' one has to use THAT much of a lye excess however. 

The key point with a soap like this is to have the patience to wait until the soap is fully tongue neutral (not zappy) before even thinking about using it.

I have been using my -40% SF soap in the shower for several months now. The two batches I made -- one all olive, one a high-oleic safflower and lard mix -- are lathering well and are not drying to the skin at all. 

Would I make all of my soaps this way? Probably not, but I'm sure not afraid of a lye-heavy soap, if the soap is otherwise well made. I visited with Kevin Dunn about this point. He said he had tested soaps up to a -5% SF (5% lye excess) and found the same results -- the soaps had no excess alkalinity (no excess lye) after cure.


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## cmzaha (Sep 14, 2014)

I still superfat in the 0-3% range, which I started doing for plumbing purposes. My hubby just commented that our plumbing has been behaving so much better the last year. Most soap for selling are superfatted at 2% using a low percentage of CO


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## Soapman Ryan (Jul 12, 2016)

cmzaha said:


> I still superfat in the 0-3% range, which I started doing for plumbing purposes. My hubby just commented that our plumbing has been behaving so much better the last year. Most soap for selling are superfatted at 2% using a low percentage of CO



I'm using a 5% superfat with a 24% CO in my body bar. If I lower my superfat to 2%, for plumbing purposes. What should I change my CO percent to, to keep the same bar bubbles I have. I didn't want the bubbles increased by lowering the superfat percent.


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