# The MAX fragrance you would add to soap..



## FragranceGuy (Mar 9, 2021)

I’m curious, what is the absolute most fragrance that you would add to a 1lb (oils) soap recipe? Do you make a distinction between EO and FO as far as percentages? Most calculators recommend 3% fragrance oil/essential oil weight. I’m not satisfied with this amount as far as EOs go, not even close!! I enjoy soaps that can be smelled from 1-2 inches from the bar when dry. As far as skin scent, I’d like to smell the fragrance on my skin for 1-2 hours after showering when I touch my nose to my forearm. That’s kind of my baseline. I’ve read that 0.7 oz PPO is the maximum to add to soap, others say 0.85 oz. I understand that some fragrances can disrupt trace and saponification if used in excess, but I’d like to hear your experiences...


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## AliOop (Mar 9, 2021)

The 3% is a default that corresponds with the max usage rate in the EU. Most US soapers will use around 6% max, sometimes 8%, but not usually more than that from what I've read on this forum and other sites. At some point, the additional liquid does begin to mess with your recipe.

*BUT*

Some EOs are not skin-safe at all; others are skin-safe in only tiny percentages.

Some FOs are not skin-safe, either; usually these are designed for candles, not soap.

Given your SMF name, @FragranceGuy no doubt you know all this already.  But others may read this post and not understand that *there is no blanket skin-safe amount for EOs or FOs*.

To say it another way, every FO and EO has a different safe usage rate. The soaper needs to check the safe usage rate for each fragrance component before mixing up a great-smelling blend that can cause severe skin irritation, eye irritation, seizures, or worse.

Thanks for humoring me to spell all that out so that there is no misunderstanding by others who read this, whether now or later.


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## KimW (Mar 9, 2021)

AliOop said:


> The 3% is a default that corresponds with the max usage rate in the EU. Most US soapers will use around 6% max, sometimes 8%, but not usually more than that from what I've read on this forum and other sites. At some point, the additional liquid does begin to mess with your recipe.
> 
> *BUT*
> 
> ...


I like what you wrote a lot better...LOL  I saw someone posted, but I was still typing and messing about with the doggie and didn't look.  LOL


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## Zing (Mar 9, 2021)

I like this website for usage rates for essential oils:








						Enter Your Own Blend » EO Calc - Essential Oil Calculator
					






					www.eocalc.com
				



I also like it because they have a ton of suggested blends.  I can just type in what I have in stock and get several ideas.  They don't have every single essential oil, so then I go to Bramble Berry's Lye Calculator and Fragrance Calculator (it's for both essential oils and fragrance oils).

I only do essential oils and almost always use the highest recommended rate (except for peppermint which I use at low amounts, unless you like getting tingly in, um, all the places.)


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## FragranceGuy (Mar 10, 2021)

@AliOop Thank you! That’s exactly the information I was looking for  I want to say that I chose the name FragranceGuy because I’m obsessed with fragrance and own about 60 colognes  When I began creating my own blends I found that I have a knack for it. Probably because I’ve smelled so many fragrances and know what I like. However, I don’t consider myself a fragrance expert at all, especially with how fragrances interact with soap. So PLEASE never hold back knowledge for me or anyone else!  

Oh Zing @Zing I think you just directed me to another place on the web to spend hours and hours of my time  Seriously though, that’s probably going to be my second favorite website after this one  Thanks!


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## Obsidian (Mar 10, 2021)

I generally use 6% unless the recommendation is lower


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## GemstonePony (Mar 10, 2021)

Hmm.. I thought I replied earlier, but maybe it got deleted for some reason? Or I only thought I posted it? Anyways, putting not-soap into soap seems to start messing with the lather and the bar texture at 5-10% and goes downhill from there. Different FOs have different viscosities as they are made up of different materials, so might start messing with lather and soap texture at different rates. Even if a FO is rated safe for higher usages and not very strong, I'd still keep it under 10% for the good of the lather.


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## KiwiMoose (Mar 10, 2021)

I use about 4% of FO if it fits within the recommended guidelines ( and less for some EOs as per @AliOop's comment).
As someone else once commented on here - if you need to use a lot to get a decent level of scent then it's time to choose a different FO that will deliver more for less.  Given that they all cost about the same, I'd much rather spend circa $NZ7 for a batch of soap than $NZ14 just because the FO is too weak and i have to use more of it.
I have found that smell sells, more than any other quality.


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## dibbles (Mar 10, 2021)

I, too, use about 6%, or one ounce PPO for FO unless it is unusually strong, if skin safe at that level. When I use EOs I usually blend them, and use the EO calc Zing linked to above.


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## FragranceGuy (Mar 10, 2021)

@KiwiMoose  Both you and @Zany_in_CO have pointed out that fragrances play a huge role in soap/ shower experiences. I believe it, because I live it! I’m all about shower experience, I shower alone and I love fragrance, so it’s obviously a personal experience. I notice changes in scent based on how often I use the soap, how often it gets wet and whether it contains animal fats. Animal fats seem to make everything about soap better except the fragrance  Homemade soap will randomly give me an off scent, but ultimately it’s SO nice! I’m leaning towards lowering my SF to 2% because I feel confident in my ability to measure and I check my scales regularly on level surfaces. My gut is telling me to add EOs to my heated base oils before stick blending and then add my FOs at light trace. I don’t know why, just a gut feeling. I’ll give it a try and let you know how it works!

@Obsidian I was thinking of using 6% as my new baseline, thank you!!

@GemstonePony Thanks for your insight! I’m certainly interested in pushing the limits, but not beyond functionality which you explained perfectly. Thanks!!


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## AliOop (Mar 11, 2021)

FragranceGuy said:


> My gut is telling me to add EOs to my heated base oils before stick blending and then add my FOs at light trace.


You are asking lots of great questions, and also thinking out loud, which leads me to another suggestion...some EOs will accelerate trace, including many florals, and most "hot" oils like cinnamon, clove, anise, basil, oregano, and thyme. You would not want to add those to your warm oils unless you are planning a single-color, no swirl, plop-and-drop design.

It's good to read up on the known behaviors of various EOs in CP soap, and definitely use EOCalc for skin-safe rates. They don't list all the EOs, but the most common ones are there. And some of their blends are .


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## LadyV (Mar 11, 2021)

The amount of fragrance or essential oils I use depends upon the type of soap I am making. I spend a bit of time reading reviews on fragrance oils.  This is a major time saver when it comes to ricing, acceleration, and smell longevity.  

My starting points PPO
Hot process 4%
Cold process 6% and up depending upon the suggested usage rate  by the manufacturer. 
Melt & Pour between 4%-6%


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## Stephd31 (Mar 11, 2021)

_My gut is telling me to add EOs to my heated base oils before stick blending and then add my FOs at light trace. I don’t know why, just a gut feeling. I’ll give it a try and let you know how it works!_

Wow, I actually have something to contribute here. That doesn't happen often. You may want research this a little more or experiment. I am not an expert by any means and I'm not telling you to go against your gut. Bear with me because this may seem off topic. I know many candlemakers who add there FO and EO's to their hot wax only after the wax has cooled below the Flashpoint of the FO or EO they're adding. Not because they're worried about starting a fire, but because the theory is the heat interacts with the oil and destroys their hot and cold throw (how strong the candle smells). I don't know if this is scientifically backed or not. (Also, we're not really soaping at as high of temps as they'd pour wax) I do know several follow the practice, but like soapmaking there are many personal preferences.

I bring this up because you want a strong smelling soap and EO's don't always stand the test of time. I'd hate for you to inadvertently botch your own plan. Just something for you to experiment with or have in the back of your head. Maybe do more research than I have.

Sorry for the rambling, it's pretty early here.


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## Virgogoddess (Mar 11, 2021)

I’ve read that a lot of soapers like to mix their F/O and essential oils with kaolin clay. Like they’re “steeping” or “anchoring” with the clay. I’ve been wanting to try this as well. I’m a bit of a “fragrance girl” myself. I always use Kaolin clay in every batch of soap I make to anchor scent but this idea seems intriguing.


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## RevolutionSoap (Mar 11, 2021)

I was just searching for some answers on this today.  I bought some supplies from the-sage.com and the Fragrance Calc they use will suggest say 3.0% max but the IFRA statements (attached) on their site says 17.9% max for CP.  Which is it?

As a side note these guys are only an hour from me and this will be my first order from them.  Shipping was free if over $200 and it shipped same day I ordered and will arrive today.


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## dibbles (Mar 11, 2021)

@RevolutionSoap the IFRA statement gives you the maximum safe usage rate for the product you are making, in this case - for bar soap - 17.9%. Just because you can use that amount safely, you don't necessarily want to do that for a number of reasons, the most important being it will most likely cause problems with your soap. Also, even though I like a strongly scented soap, at a 17.9% usage rate it would be way too strong.

Using 1 oz PPO, or roughly 6% is my benchmark. If I'm not happy with the level of fragrance at that usage rate, I won't buy the fragrance again. MMS is a good company with very nice products. Have fun with your new things!


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## RevolutionSoap (Mar 11, 2021)

That makes sense!  Thanks!  I usually use 1oz PPO as well with Kaolin Clay.  But like many, I do like a strong scent.


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## kaygrrl (Mar 11, 2021)

I have only experienced the scent linger on me when using essential oils!


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## KiwiMoose (Mar 11, 2021)

If you want a lingering scent - Patchouli.  Now I'm leaving before I get beaten up! lol.


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## dibbles (Mar 11, 2021)

KiwiMoose said:


> If you want a lingering scent - Patchouli.  Now I'm leaving before I get beaten up! lol.


I'll be your wingman KM. I love patchouli!


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## Arimara (Mar 11, 2021)

I like to think my nose is good enough. I use 3% most times because I'm too scared of having a soap I love that causes a migraine. I already have a bar I hate that used to trigger them (the scent has lightened up a bit but I still hate it).


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## FragranceGuy (Mar 11, 2021)

Wow! So many wonderful responses!! Thank you ALL!!! I’m realizing more and more just how complicated soap making can be, as are most beautiful crafts. It’s not turning me away, it’s actually grabbing my interest even further. I’m going to let myself truly enjoy the learning process and focus on a few things at a time. Right now it’s finding ingredients I like and developing a few recipes that satisfy me. During that process I’m going to slowly learn the art of soap fragrance. I’m putting colors, swirls and designs down the road, maybe a couple years (I say that now, but...  ) I’m in this for the long run and I’d prefer the gratification of achieving my goals rather than rushing the process. I know I sound like a broken record, but I’m SO grateful to have been welcomed into this wonderful community. THANK YOU!!


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## Emmamia (Mar 13, 2021)

Hi, Steph, when you say that you add your essential  oils to your heated oils AND then,  your fragrance oils at light trace..... Do you mean you add both , like mix them? EO and FO . Just trying to learn whatever helps me to make my soaps more aromatic... thanks


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## Stephd31 (Mar 13, 2021)

Emmamia said:


> Hi, Steph, when you say that you add your essential  oils to your heated oils AND then,  your fragrance oils at light trace..... Do you mean you add both , like mix them? EO and FO . Just trying to learn whatever helps me to make my soaps more aromatic... thanks


Hi Emmamia, I was actually quoting FragranceGuy's post about adding FO to soft oils and adding EOs to heated oils. It's a method he plans on experimenting with.

I haven't tried that method personally.

There are several people on the forum who marinate their EOs in Kaolin Clay for at least an hour and then add it to their soap for a longer lasting scent. I've not tried this method either.

I'm not an expert at long lasting scents. I typically add both my EOs and FO's shortly after adding my lye solution to the oils.


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## Rsapienza (Mar 16, 2021)

IME, I find that if a FO has good scent retention, it has good scent retention. If it doesn't, using more doesn't help that; it just makes the scent stronger during the time it is fragrant. I hope that makes sense. I typically use 4%. I just  picked up a soap tonight that was made in 2019 that smells like I made it last week. All FO's are definitely not created equal.


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## AAShillito (Apr 27, 2021)

In the recipes I've been trying out it's been 1 oz ppo.


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## GemstonePony (Apr 27, 2021)

AAShillito said:


> In the recipes I've been trying out it's been 1 oz ppo.


That's over 5%(5.88%, to be more precise). Not a problem from a "not soap" standpoint, but always check to be sure that your FOs or EOs are safe to use at that concentration, since many have a maximum safety rating of 5% or less.


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