# Question about gel



## bookreader451 (Aug 17, 2019)

I just made my first CP soap ever.   I soaped at 106 degrees and used 28.14% water as ratio to oils.  I was worried about partial gel so I am just leaving it out on my table covered with the lid that came with the mold.  I took the temperature and it is about 132 degrees right now.  Will I still get a partial gel if it is getting that warm in the center?  

I did a three color in the pot swirl and other than the colors blending a lot on the top as I textured it I am really happy with the way it looks and I am afraid I will have a big blob in the center where it partially gelled.


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## KristaY (Aug 17, 2019)

Do you want to gel or avoid gel?

If you're trying to encourage it, leave the lid on. You can cover with a light towel or cloth if you want. If you want to avoid gel, pop it in the fridge or freezer but you'd want to do that immediately after making the soap.

If you do end up with partial gel it'll be aesthetic only so the quality of the soap won't be affected, only the appearance. I've had a couple of partial gels and the effect can be pretty cool looking! I know it's not the look you want with this batch but don't get overly stressed out about it. Sometimes the soap will do what the soap wants to do!


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## bookreader451 (Aug 17, 2019)

I was trying to avoid gel.  I thought that if I just left it out by the window ac unit it wouldn't get hot enough to gel, but when I saw it heating up I was afraid of partial gel.  So next time I guess I will put it in the fridge as soon as I am done and this time I just have to wait and see if it gels on me.


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## Marilyn Norgart (Aug 17, 2019)

soap at a lower temp and put in the fridge or freezer


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## DeeAnna (Aug 17, 2019)

Keeping the soap cooler is certainly a strategy that can help, but it's not necessarily a surefire solution. A reliable way to avoid gel is to use less water in your recipes. 

Less water doesn't keep the soap cooler. What less water does is increase the temperature at which that particular soap will go into the gel phase. Use 33% or higher lye concentration (this is _not _"water as % of oils"). That will help a lot.

You can put your soap mold on something like some soup cans so air can flow under and all around the molded soap. Direct a fan on the soap. That's an efficient way to cool the mold that doesn't tie up your fridge or freezer. Cool, flowing air can be more efficient at cooling than cold, still air.


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## bookreader451 (Aug 17, 2019)

Thanks I did use a 33% lye solution.  Next time I will either insulate and commit to gel or refrigerate.  I will see what happens when I unmold it.


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## penelopejane (Aug 17, 2019)

bookreader451 said:


> Thanks I did use a 33% lye solution.  Next time I will either insulate and commit to gel or refrigerate.  I will see what happens when I unmold it.


You said you used 28.14% water as % of oils that is equal to 31% lye concentration (if you used OO) not 33% lye concentration. That extra 2% will make a big difference.


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## Baqn (Aug 17, 2019)

Don't worry. It shouldn't gel. I think so. 28% water is pretty low for beginner  but it looks nice on the picture. Keep on working like that


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## DeeAnna (Aug 17, 2019)

Did you use the *default* water as % of oils setting? If so, that's *38%* water as % of oils, not 28%. At 38% water as % of oils, the lye concentration will range anywhere from 26% to 31%, depending on the fats in the recipe. That range of lye concentration is right in the range where gelling is fairly likely. 

If you really did use *28%* water as % of oils, then the lye concentration will be a fair bit higher -- maybe in the 35% to 40% lye concentration. The actual lye concentration will depend on the fats in your recipe. Soap made with that range of lye concentration is much less likely to go into gel.


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## bookreader451 (Aug 18, 2019)

I used soap calc and that is what the recipe said the % was.  I used 33% lye concentration as the basis of the calculation with a 5% superfat and that is what it said.


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## bookreader451 (Aug 18, 2019)

Baqn said:


> Don't worry. It shouldn't gel. I think so. 28% water is pretty low for beginner  but it looks nice on the picture. Keep on working like that


Thanks for the encouraging words.  I researched the heck out of soapmaking before trying it.  Then watched youtube to see how to make it pretty.  I have been using melt and pour and making body butters and sugar scrubs.....decided it was time to finally dive into CP.


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## DeeAnna (Aug 18, 2019)

Okay, so now I understand. Thank you for sharing your recipe so I can see the entire picture. Yes, you are correct -- your recipe is set at 33% lye concentration and that happens for this particular recipe to also be 28% water as % of oils. 

A 33% lye concentration is perfectly safe and fine for beginners as well as for accomplished soapers, so stick with it if you like how your soap behaves at that lye concentration. The soap at 33% lye concentration is not very likely to go into gel. It _could, _but not very likely.

Speaking in general, the water as % of oils percentage isn't nearly as helpful as lye concentration in predicting how the soap might react. I suggest leaving the "water as % of oils" percentage out of the story -- lye concentration is plenty fine.


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## bookreader451 (Aug 19, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Okay, so now I understand. Thank you for sharing your recipe so I can see the entire picture. Yes, you are correct -- your recipe is set at 33% lye concentration and that happens for this particular recipe to also be 28% water as % of oils.
> 
> A 33% lye concentration is perfectly safe and fine for beginners as well as for accomplished soapers, so stick with it if you like how your soap behaves at that lye concentration. The soap at 33% lye concentration is not very likely to go into gel. It _could, _but not very likely.
> 
> Speaking in general, the water as % of oils percentage isn't nearly as helpful as lye concentration in predicting how the soap might react. I suggest leaving the "water as % of oils" percentage out of the story -- lye concentration is plenty fine.


Thanks for the reassurance.  I thought I had things right.  I was so worried about measurements I used a pipet to make sure every oil was exact.


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## bookreader451 (Aug 19, 2019)

well I took it out of the mold and no gel  There are a lot of small bumps. Are those air bubbles or is my soap no good?


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## KristaY (Aug 19, 2019)

Very pretty @bookreader451 ! It looks some spots are small air bubbles but the majority look like stearic spots. As long as there's no zap, the soap is absolutely dandy!


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## bookreader451 (Aug 19, 2019)

KristaY said:


> Very pretty @bookreader451 ! It looks some spots are small air bubbles but the majority look like stearic spots. As long as there's no zap, the soap is absolutely dandy!


Are steric spots from the palm?  I melted it in the container before I measured it


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## jcandleattic (Aug 19, 2019)

bookreader451 said:


> Are steric spots from the palm?  I melted it in the container before I measured it


Yes, stearic spots typically come from palm. The oils may have started to cool a bit before you actually poured your soap. 

Honestly I can't see any spots, but that is probably my computer, more than anything else.  
Did you use a wire cutter? Sometimes cutting ungelled soap too soon will give spots to a soap as well.


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## KristaY (Aug 19, 2019)

Yes, they're from the PO. My oils are always clear and at about 100 - 110 F when I add the lye water. I always gel and sometimes I get stearic spots and sometimes I don't. The only real correlation I've noticed is I usually get more stearic spots with accelerating FO/EO's and none with well behaved FO/EO's. I don't know if that's because those accelerating scents make the batter heat faster and higher or what. I just know to expect them when I use a bratty FO.


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## penelopejane (Aug 20, 2019)

bookreader451 said:


> I used soap calc and that is what the recipe said the % was.  I used 33% lye concentration as the basis of the calculation with a 5% superfat and that is what it said.


So sorry. I really hadn't seen a recipe before where 33% lye conc was equivalent to 28% water as a percent of oils!  When I plugged in OO as you hadn't posted the recipe it was way different.  So, sorry about that. 

The stearic spots are avoidable if you soap at 110-115*F  I know that is pretty close to what you used but next time try a little hotter.  After you poured all those layers your soap probably cooled down a fair bit. 

I always gel my soaps because it is easier for me to avoid partial gel that way.  I am not sure what putting a soap into the fridge or on an airflow rack after you finish it does to stearic spots.  I've not had a problem with stearic spots and accelerating FO's because I never use accelerating FO's!  Too difficult for me.


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## drummergirl (Aug 20, 2019)

I really appreciate all of this info on gel.  I have been avoiding it, even though I want to to get brighter and deeper color with natural plant colorants.  The last time I covered a soap was my dog soap bars - I used lard instead of shea and used canola oil.  Colorant was ground safflower petals.  I covered it a room temp but it cracked open and being afraid of a volcano, I uncovered and put in the fridge.  I had to cut the cracked part off.  Now I wonder if the EO's I used accelerated and caused heat - anise?  My current soap went into the fridge to avoid gel because I can't abide wasting my time and money on cracks or messes.  When you gel - are you using mostly soft oils?  I soap palm free but use coconut and shea and also lard in some recipes.  I have been soaping now at room temp, masterbatching my lye, in order to be more efficient and avoid glycerin rivers and cracking.


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## linne1gi (Aug 20, 2019)

bookreader451 said:


> well I took it out of the mold and no gel  There are a lot of small bumps. Are those air bubbles or is my soap no good?



Looks like air bubbles to me - did you use a wire soap cutter - that's usually the culprit.


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## penelopejane (Aug 21, 2019)

I don't know about lard.  All soap hot for all my soaps (coconut, shea, OO etc) and they are all covered and insulated.  I gel everything because I can't stand partial gel.  I soap at the equivalent to about 32% lye concentration on soap calc. My salt bars go in individual molds and are covered and insulated winter and summer.  I haven't had a volcano or cracking yet - fingers crossed.  It might be your FO or EO?  Not at all sure.


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## bookreader451 (Aug 21, 2019)

linne1gi said:


> Looks like air bubbles to me - did you use a wire soap cutter - that's usually the culprit.


Yes,  I did cut with a wire cutter.  I am too spastic to use a knife and get it even.


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## linne1gi (Aug 21, 2019)

bookreader451 said:


> Yes,  I did cut with a wire cutter.  I am too spastic to use a knife and get it even.


Wire cutters are notorious for leaving air bubbles behind. You can plane your soaps or rinse them to get rid of the air bubble look.


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## bookreader451 (Aug 21, 2019)

linne1gi said:


> Wire cutters are notorious for leaving air bubbles behind. You can plane your soaps or rinse them to get rid of the air bubble look.


Thanks for the tip!  Did a hot process too, as my second batch, and that had drag marks from oatmeal.


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## linne1gi (Aug 21, 2019)

bookreader451 said:


> Thanks for the tip!  Did a hot process too, as my second batch, and that had drag marks from oatmeal.


If the oatmeal was on top (as a decoration), turn your soap on the side to slice it


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## bookreader451 (Aug 21, 2019)

Thanks, it was on top and in the soap.  I will definitely turn it next time if I add a top


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## linne1gi (Aug 21, 2019)

bookreader451 said:


> Thanks, it was on top and in the soap.  I will definitely turn it next time if I add a top


Isn't it funny when we hear something like that?  We say (to ourselves), why didn't I think of that.


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## penelopejane (Aug 21, 2019)

bookreader451 said:


> well I took it out of the mold and no gel  There are a lot of small bumps. Are those air bubbles or is my soap no good?


Easiest way to determine if they are wire cutter bubbles or stearic spots is to but a slice with a knife.  If they are still there they are stearic spots.


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## Zany_in_CO (Aug 21, 2019)

@bookreader451 Congratulations on your first batch! Well done!


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## bookreader451 (Aug 21, 2019)

Zany_in_CO said:


> @bookreader451 Congratulations on your first batch! Well done!


Thank you


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## linne1gi (Aug 21, 2019)

bookreader451 said:


> well I took it out of the mold and no gel  There are a lot of small bumps. Are those air bubbles or is my soap no good?


Looks to me like air bubbles from the wire cutter. If you rinse the soap with water and dry it. The spots should go away, if they’re air bubbles.


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## bookreader451 (Aug 22, 2019)

linne1gi said:


> Looks to me like air bubbles from the wire cutter. If you rinse the soap with water and dry it. The spots should go away, if they’re air bubbles.



I will test that on the end piece I have.  Thank again


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## Dawni (Aug 23, 2019)

Soap looks lovely @bookreader451! Congrats!


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## bookreader451 (Aug 23, 2019)

Dawni said:


> Soap looks lovely @bookreader451! Congrats!


Thank you


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## Roe (Aug 23, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> Easiest way to determine if they are wire cutter bubbles or stearic spots is to but a slice with a knife.  If they are still there they are stearic spots.



Hello, I hope it is ok for me to jump in  here. My soap looks the same way. I have just started using a wire cutter. I tried washing it and they still have white spots. If it is stearic, what is the answer to avoid the white spots, and if it is wire cutter marks, how do we not get that? I can not cut straight so I was really interested in the wire cutter......but I hate the white spots. Thank you!


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## Marilyn Norgart (Aug 23, 2019)

lovely soap!!!!


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## GraciousGraphics (Aug 23, 2019)

Long time lurker here, Bob from New Zealand.

I don't make soap, but I do make wire soap cutters - this is the first time I've heard of a wire cutter having a 'downside'.
I'm wondering if anyone has looked further into the problem, perhaps found out just how these air bubbles form and hopefully how to avoid it!

My cutters use a wire of 0.2" (0.508mm). Perhaps a smaller diameter wire would help?
(But that may mean more breakages, and probably more stretching of the wire)

None of the people who use my cutters have mentioned getting bubbles, but perhaps, like me, they haven't heard about it before.
If there is a problem that I can fix, it'd be great to do so before someone complains...
Cheers from Christchurch, Bob


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## linne1gi (Aug 23, 2019)

Roe said:


> Hello, I hope it is ok for me to jump in  here. My soap looks the same way. I have just started using a wire cutter. I tried washing it and they still have white spots. If it is stearic, what is the answer to avoid the white spots, and if it is wire cutter marks, how do we not get that? I can not cut straight so I was really interested in the wire cutter......but I hate the white spots. Thank you!


Hi Roe, The best advice I have is if you are pretty sure it’s stearic spots to soap a little hotter. Hopefully that keeps the stearin from forming the little spots it likes.  And by hotter, I mean quite a bit hotter. Stearic acid melts at 169 degrees Fahrenheit. I don’t think you have to soap quite that hot. Make sure your oils (hard butters) are completely melted and work with it at least 100 degrees. If it’s air bubbles from the wire cutter. You can rinse and dry your soap or you can plane and bevel it.


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## linne1gi (Aug 23, 2019)

GraciousGraphics said:


> Long time lurker here, Bob from New Zealand.
> 
> I don't make soap, but I do make wire soap cutters - this is the first time I've heard of a wire cutter having a 'downside'.
> I'm wondering if anyone has looked further into the problem, perhaps found out just how these air bubbles form and hopefully how to avoid it!
> ...


Hi Bob,  Thanks for chiming in! As a soap maker of 6 years I have frequently encountered air bubbles not caused by a wire cutter exactly but more like the wire cutter seems to enhance air bubbles that are already there. I seldom have air bubbles anymore so I think it’s a problem that newer soapers encounter more often. When you pour your soap you have to bang it pretty forcefully to get the air bubbles out. I think new soapers are less likely to bang hard enough to get the bubbles out. That’s my theory anyway. I’d appreciate if any seasoned soapers could chime in here with their thoughts.


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## GraciousGraphics (Aug 23, 2019)

I've also heard, in a different field altogether, that when pouring plastic into molds you can use a vacuum box to draw out the bubbles. 
(This was referring to the 2-part pourable plastic to embed items)

I.e. the complete mold, filled with just poured plastic/soap, is placed in an air-tight container of some sort with a lid and a vacuum applied to suck out the air.

Since vacuum pumps are expensive maybe a household vacuum (Hoover) might work - even vacuum pumps never pull _all _the air out.


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## bookreader451 (Aug 23, 2019)

linne1gi said:


> Hi Bob,  Thanks for chiming in! As a soap maker of 6 years I have frequently encountered air bubbles not caused by a wire cutter exactly but more like the wire cutter seems to enhance air bubbles that are already there. I seldom have air bubbles anymore so I think it’s a problem that newer soapers encounter more often. When you pour your soap you have to bang it pretty forcefully to get the air bubbles out. I think new soapers are less likely to bang hard enough to get the bubbles out. That’s my theory anyway. I’d appreciate if any seasoned soapers could chime in here with their thoughts.


How do you bang it without ruining the design?  I was afraid to slop it everywhere but, I did bang it on the counter.


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## linne1gi (Aug 23, 2019)

GraciousGraphics said:


> I've also heard, in a different field altogether, that when pouring plastic into molds you can use a vacuum box to draw out the bubbles.
> (This was referring to the 2-part pourable plastic to embed items)
> 
> I.e. the complete mold, filled with just poured plastic/soap, is placed in an air-tight container of some sort with a lid and a vacuum applied to suck out the air.
> ...


Well Bob, I’m not at all familiar with pouring plastic. I highly doubt a vacuum could be used with soap but I am not positive. Aside from banging the mold filled with newly poured soap, another top I have, is to “burp” the stick blender before turning it on to mix the oils & lye water. Many newbies do not do this.


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## linne1gi (Aug 23, 2019)

linne1gi said:


> Well Bob, I’m not at all familiar with pouring plastic. I highly doubt a vacuum could be used with soap but I am not positive. Aside from banging the mold filled with newly poured soap, another top I have, is to “burp” the stick blender before turning it on to mix the oils & lye water. Many newbies do not do this.


Sorry, another tip I have. Not top!


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## linne1gi (Aug 23, 2019)

bookreader451 said:


> How do you bang it without ruining the design?  I was afraid to slop it everywhere but, I did bang it on the counter.


You have to be careful but you need to bang nevertheless.


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## bookreader451 (Aug 23, 2019)

linne1gi said:


> You have to be careful but you need to bang nevertheless.


I did see air bubbles when I was stick blending.  I will be more careful when I do my next batch this weekend.


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## linne1gi (Aug 23, 2019)

bookreader451 said:


> I did see air bubbles when I was stick blending.  I will be more careful when I do my next batch this weekend.


Good luck, let us know how it goes.


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## penelopejane (Aug 28, 2019)

Roe said:


> Hello, I hope it is ok for me to jump in  here. My soap looks the same way. I have just started using a wire cutter. I tried washing it and they still have white spots. If it is stearic, what is the answer to avoid the white spots, and if it is wire cutter marks, how do we not get that? I can not cut straight so I was really interested in the wire cutter......but I hate the white spots. Thank you!


If it is wirecutter bubbles you can cut the soap with a knife and they will disappear.  THis is not really preventable but a lot of people have found that timing the cutting of the soap just right - not too soft and not too hard - really makes a difference and they can be undetectable. 

If it is stearic spots heat your high stearic acid oils (eg: palm, coconut etc) and make sure they are clear mix them in with warm oils (about 43*C works well for me) and SB well before mixing in the warm (about 43*C) NaOH. You won't need to SB much at this temp but you still get a lot of play time if you are not over zealous with the SBer.  
This will ensure you don't get stearic spots or swirls in your soap. 

Some small white dots can be improperly mixed TD, milk or other powders.


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## penelopejane (Aug 28, 2019)

GraciousGraphics said:


> Long time lurker here, Bob from New Zealand.
> 
> I don't make soap, but I do make wire soap cutters - this is the first time I've heard of a wire cutter having a 'downside'.
> I'm wondering if anyone has looked further into the problem, perhaps found out just how these air bubbles form and hopefully how to avoid it!
> ...


Most people use size "G".  Mine have got 0.022P written on them.  I am assuming that is the diameter of the wire but I don't know for sure.   Someone has worked out the best one to use already -it's not the wire maybe it is the cure of the soap that causes spots.


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## linne1gi (Aug 28, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> If it is wirecutter bubbles you can cut the soap with a knife and they will disappear.  THis is not really preventable but a lot of people have found that timing the cutting of the soap just right - not too soft and not too hard - really makes a difference and they can be undetectable.
> 
> If it is stearic spots heat your high stearic acid oils (eg: palm, coconut etc) and make sure they are clear mix them in with warm oils (about 43*C works well for me) and SB well before mixing in the warm (about 43*C) NaOH. You won't need to SB much at this temp but you still get a lot of play time if you are not over zealous with the SBer.
> This will ensure you don't get stearic spots or swirls in your soap.
> ...


The other tip is to plane or bevel your soaps that have tiny air bubbles. As sometimes it is impractical to cut with a knife- I can’t cut straight slices at all! So if I ever get air bubbles, I would bevel my soaps.


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## bookreader451 (Aug 29, 2019)

linne1gi said:


> The other tip is to plane or bevel your soaps that have tiny air bubbles. As sometimes it is impractical to cut with a knife- I can’t cut straight slices at all! So if I ever get air bubbles, I would bevel my soaps.


I just ordered a planer/beveler so I will repost pics after I clean them up.  Thinking it was bubbles because the spots don’t seem white after sitting for a while.


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## linne1gi (Aug 29, 2019)

bookreader451 said:


> I just ordered a planer/beveler so I will repost pics after I clean them up.  Thinking it was bubbles because the spots don’t seem white after sitting for a while.


Great, post some photos.


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## rjuconnfan (Aug 29, 2019)

I have no idea why I am getting these spots more lately. I looked back at all my first soaps from last year. I made over 100 batches, all different recipes. NO spots of any kind. This year, I am more experienced, and am having spots. Some are white and are through the soap. Stearic. Some are bumps but not white. Some disappear when I test cut with a knife, or wet it. The only real change since last year is the wire cutter vs the knife because I can't cut straight even with the box and cutter device. I have tried increasing temps, waiting longer to cut, cleaning the wire between slices. Still getting these bumps. It is annoying since my beginner soaps all look nice and smooth ( but oddly cut and crooked). Now I am making more designs and cutting them straight, and I have spots/bumps. Frustration for sure. Will take some pictures and post later. I will have to start using a plainer but for the stearic, not sure how to beat that. I use the no stir palm this year.....maybe that is an issue. Stumped.


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## linne1gi (Aug 29, 2019)

rjuconnfan said:


> I have no idea why I am getting these spots more lately. I looked back at all my first soaps from last year. I made over 100 batches, all different recipes. NO spots of any kind. This year, I am more experienced, and am having spots. Some are white and are through the soap. Stearic. Some are bumps but not white. Some disappear when I test cut with a knife, or wet it. The only real change since last year is the wire cutter vs the knife because I can't cut straight even with the box and cutter device. I have tried increasing temps, waiting longer to cut, cleaning the wire between slices. Still getting these bumps. It is annoying since my beginner soaps all look nice and smooth ( but oddly cut and crooked). Now I am making more designs and cutting them straight, and I have spots/bumps. Frustration for sure. Will take some pictures and post later. I will have to start using a plainer but for the stearic, not sure how to beat that. I use the no stir palm this year.....maybe that is an issue. Stumped.


I think if you cut a little later you may be able to eliminate the air bubbles, or plane them if all else fails. The stearic spots are not as easily fixed. I’m pretty sure you get them because the stearic molecules harden before the batter. I think you have to soap hotter to keep the stearic fluid longer. I hate saying this because soaping cooler is my mantra. Maybe DeeAnna knows how to get around this?


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## Mobjack Bay (Aug 31, 2019)

I have cut down on tiny bubbles in my soaps by:
1) giving my melted oils a few minutes to release any bubbles that are introduced when I pour the oils. I think stirring the warm oils and melted butters very gently with a spatula in a back and forth motion (not around and around) for a minute or two also helps.
2) using properly sized mixing containers -  I have good results if the container is about 2/3 full.  Given the volumes of the batches I make relative to the size of my stick blender, most of my containers are a bit taller than they are wide (funnel pitchers, large yogurt containers or bowls with tall sides). I aim to have the end of the stick blender fully submerged, even when I’m pulsing to mix the oils. It took me some time to find containers that are sized just right for my small batch volumes, and the even smaller portions of batter I split to color for swirls and layering.
3) ALWAYS checking to make sure that no air is trapped in the bell of the SB.  If I forget to “burp the bell” I stop right away and try to get the bubbles out by gently mixing the batter back and forth with a spatula before I proceed.
4) minimizing stick blending once the batter starts to comes to trace.  If I need a heavier trace, I try to be patient and let the chemistry do some of the work, coaxed by stirring rather than stick blending.
5) remembering to bang the mold.  When I make salt bars I actually drop the tray that my individual molds are on onto the floor from a height a 2-3” and multiple times.  It’s not as crazy as it sounds because the batter is usually at a med to heavy trace.  Even though I can’t get every bubble out, it helps, and it doesn’t affect my swirls.

I do still get some bubbles in my loaf mold soaps and the wire cutter makes them very obvious, but not enough to outweigh the benefits of using the wire cutter.  I’ve found that I can minimize the appearance of the bubbles by rubbing them with a piece of nylon stocking or microfiber cloth.


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## Mobjack Bay (Aug 31, 2019)

P.S. pretty soap!


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## linne1gi (Aug 31, 2019)

Mobjack Bay said:


> I have cut down on tiny bubbles in my soaps by:
> 1) giving my melted oils a few minutes to release any bubbles that are introduced when I pour the oils. I think stirring the warm oils and melted butters very gently with a spatula in a back and forth motion (not around and around) for a minute or two also helps.
> 2) using properly sized mixing containers -  I have good results if the container is about 2/3 full.  Given the volumes of the batches I make relative to the size of my stick blender, most of my containers are a bit taller than they are wide (funnel pitchers, large yogurt containers or bowls with tall sides). I aim to have the end of the stick blender fully submerged, even when I’m pulsing to mix the oils. It took me some time to find containers that are sized just right for my small batch volumes, and the even smaller portions of batter I split to color for swirls and layering.
> 3) ALWAYS checking to make sure that no air is trapped in the bell of the SB.  If I forget to “burp the bell” I stop right away and try to get the bubbles out by gently mixing the batter back and forth with a spatula before I proceed.
> ...


I also found that after time the bubbles are much less noticeable.


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## penelopejane (Sep 16, 2019)

rjuconnfan said:


> I have no idea why I am getting these spots more lately. I looked back at all my first soaps from last year. I made over 100 batches, all different recipes. NO spots of any kind. This year, I am more experienced, and am having spots. Some are white and are through the soap. Stearic. Some are bumps but not white. Some disappear when I test cut with a knife, or wet it. The only real change since last year is the wire cutter vs the knife because I can't cut straight even with the box and cutter device. I have tried increasing temps, waiting longer to cut, cleaning the wire between slices. Still getting these bumps. It is annoying since my beginner soaps all look nice and smooth ( but oddly cut and crooked). Now I am making more designs and cutting them straight, and I have spots/bumps. Frustration for sure. Will take some pictures and post later. I will have to start using a plainer but for the stearic, not sure how to beat that. I use the no stir palm this year.....maybe that is an issue. Stumped.


Can you post some photos so we can help you work this out?


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## Baqn (Sep 16, 2019)

Hallo Mobjack Bay, I suppose that your bubbles are not coming only from the mixing of the oils, nor from SB or post mixing. You can incorporate small air bubbles during pouring also. While the batter is cool they are small. Once the saponification starts in the mold the temerature rises. The air in the small bubbles get warmer and warmer. The hotter the air is, the bigger volume it has.
You can not evacuate small bubbles from the batter. Once it gets to trace it is too viscous for small bubbles to move to the surface. They are trapped. I get such bubbles when I make swirls and pour different colours in the mold. What comes to my mind to prevent bubbles is to prevent heating in the mold.


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## soapmaker (Sep 16, 2019)

Bookreader, that was a great first try!


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## Lucey (Sep 17, 2019)

When it comes to bubbles from SB, I recently tried a new SB when I realized my regular one was downstairs.  My “regular” one is a kitchenaid, and even though I burp it I was still getting air bubbles.  The one I used that gave me no air bubbles whatsoever was a cheap Proctor Silex blender (one piece, no removable shaft).  My theory is that because the blade on this SB is much smaller than my kitchen aid less air is being introduced.  Perhaps not as good for cooking but great for soap making.  I always snubbed my nose at the cheap blenders but now see the light.


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## soapmaker (Sep 17, 2019)

Lucey said:


> When it comes to bubbles from SB, I recently tried a new SB when I realized my regular one was downstairs.  My “regular” one is a kitchenaid, and even though I burp it I was still getting air bubbles.  The one I used that gave me no air bubbles whatsoever was a cheap Proctor Silex blender (one piece, no removable shaft).  My theory is that because the blade on this SB is much smaller than my kitchen aid less air is being introduced.  Perhaps not as good for cooking but great for soap making.  I always snubbed my nose at the cheap blenders but now see the light.



Happy that you found YOUR answer, but I have a kitchenaid that makes bubbles and a kitchenaid that doesn't make bubbles! Figure that one out  I haven't taken the time to analyse the situation, I just use the one that doesn't make bubbles.


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## soapmaker (Sep 17, 2019)

The title of the thread is "Question about Gel."  I see we have really gotten OT.


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## bookreader451 (Sep 17, 2019)

soapmaker said:


> The title of the thread is "Question about Gel."  I see we have really gotten OT.


Yes, but I am going to try to CPOP soon as I have a soap design in mind and I want it to force glycerin rivers.  So far none of my CP batches have been through gel.  Even the tangents are helpful and interesting information.


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## cmzaha (Sep 17, 2019)

soapmaker said:


> The title of the thread is "Question about Gel."  I see we have really gotten OT.


The OP bought up the subject of air bubbles and stearic spots. Straying from the original topic of the thread happens quite regularly. Many times I have strayed off from my own original topics and feel it is my thread I can stray... It just happens here, a question is mentioned and off it goes in another direction.


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## soapmaker (Sep 17, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> The OP bought up the subject of air bubbles and stearic spots. Straying from the original topic of the thread happens quite regularly. Many times I have strayed off from my own original topics and feel it is my thread I can stray...


True, so then I must not understand the concept of OT. I thought we were supposed to start a new thread if we wanted to change the topic from gelling to bubbles and stick blenders.


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## amd (Sep 17, 2019)

soapmaker said:


> True, so then I must not understand the concept of OT.


Normally I would agree, but if it is the OP steering the topic I usually don't mind, as it is their thread.


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## soapmaker (Sep 17, 2019)

amd said:


> Normally I would agree, but if it is the OP steering the topic I usually don't mind, as it is their thread.


Thanks! I learned something.


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## Mistrael (Sep 18, 2019)

On the wire/knife bubble question... Could the wire issue be a matter of cutting *too* cleanly? I'm yet to slice a soap because I've used individual molds until just today, but new soaps can have a softer consistency that reminds me of some cheeses. When cutting with a wire, there's probably no "smear" factor. However, with a knife the entire blade slides over the cut surface, which could have a smoothing effect that covers tiny bubbles...?


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## DeeAnna (Sep 18, 2019)

_"...with a knife the entire blade slides over the cut surface, which could have a smoothing effect that covers tiny bubbles......"_

Yes. Good thinking -- I agree that is what happens.


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## shunt2011 (Sep 19, 2019)

That's true.  However, if your soap is too soft even the wire can cause streaks when cutting.  I generally take it out of the mold and leave it sit out for about 8 hours before cutting.  I use silicone molds so they can sometimes be a bit softer (when I forget SL or Salt).


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## The Cat Lady (Sep 21, 2019)

Just going back to gel. I've had real problems with so many of my soaps having partial gel. I know it's just a cosmetic thing but I'd prefer it if my soaps were either full gel or not gelled at all - not something in the middle (literally!) I think I've had a breakthrough this week!  
What I did different was only heating the solid oils in my recipe. Before I would put all the oils together and heat them together. This time I poured the melted hard oils into the liquid oils. I thenadded the lye when it was about 110f. Then instead of using a silicone liner I used freezer paper to line my wooden box. As soon as everything was poured I put it straight into the fridge for 24 hours, then out to room temperature for another 24hours.  I cut it today and so pleased there is no partial gel! yipee! The soaps aren't as neat as using a silicone liner but I can trim them off later. I think when the soap is ungelled it can have a slightly rubbery soft feel but I know after a few weeks it'll harden up. So very happy today.


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## soapmaker (Sep 21, 2019)

The Cat Lady said:


> Just going back to gel. I've had real problems with so many of my soaps having partial gel. I know it's just a cosmetic thing but I'd prefer it if my soaps were either full gel or not gelled at all - not something in the middle (literally!) I think I've had a breakthrough this week!
> What I did different was only heating the solid oils in my recipe. Before I would put all the oils together and heat them together. This time I poured the melted hard oils into the liquid oils. I thenadded the lye when it was about 110f. Then instead of using a silicone liner I used freezer paper to line my wooden box. As soon as everything was poured I put it straight into the fridge for 24 hours, then out to room temperature for another 24hours.  I cut it today and so pleased there is no partial gel! yipee! The soaps aren't as neat as using a silicone liner but I can trim them off later. I think when the soap is ungelled it can have a slightly rubbery soft feel but I know after a few weeks it'll harden up. So very happy today.



Good for you! I never heat my liquid oils. The other thing you could try is to soap at 90 F.  34 % lye solution, and leave on counter uncovered. For me this takes care of partial gel and ash. But it depends on your recipe.


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## DeeAnna (Sep 22, 2019)

Yes, I'm picking nits ... but I honestly do not know what you mean when you say "34% lye solution." I could _assume _it means "lye concentration" but I'd be guessing and would really have to ask to confirm. 

The phrase "lye solution" covers any mixture of water + alkali (NaOH or KOH or whatever) but that's all it means to me. There are three terms that are commonly used to define lye concentration beyond any shadow of a doubt --

"_The lye solution was 34% lye concentration_"
"_The lye solution was 34% water as % of oils_"
"_The lye solution was a 1.94 water:lye ratio_"


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## Susie (Sep 22, 2019)

Warning:  This is OT for the original question, but addresses several questions brought up by both the OP and others.  So, if you are the mods/admins, and feel it needs to be moved elsewhere, feel free to do so.  I would hate to offend by my OT'ness.  (And why, exactly, do we suddenly have several OT police in forums that are not mods/admins?  It boggles the mind.)

On to the OT topic at hand:

In my experience, bubbles after using wire cutters are due more to the bubbles present in the mold to start with (stickblending, too heavy of a trace for a swirl, etc).  After that it has to do with how hard your soap is when you cut it.  I gel my soap, so it is generally hard and ready to cut at about 12 hours.  Waiting longer is better at reducing the "snag and drag" effect sometimes seen on the surface of the bars.  The only effect I have found directly related to the wire cutter vs the knife is that the knife smooths the soap as it travels down, and the wire cutter does not.  But, wire cutters save so much time and effort, as well as giving me nice straight cuts, that I am never going back to the knife, no matter how much I have to work around one tiny downfall.


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## bookreader451 (Sep 22, 2019)

Once I got the planer my soaps look great.  I use the wire then a week or so later plane and bevel them. They look so much better.


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## soapmaker (Sep 22, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Yes, I'm picking nits ... but I honestly do not know what you mean when you say "34% lye solution." I could _assume _it means "lye concentration" but I'd be guessing and would really have to ask to confirm.
> 
> The phrase "lye solution" covers any mixture of water + alkali (NaOH or KOH or whatever) but that's all it means to me. There are three terms that are commonly used to define lye concentration beyond any shadow of a doubt --
> 
> ...



No, you are so right. For some odd reason I always say solution when I really mean concentration. Sorry.


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## melinda48 (Sep 23, 2019)

bookreader451 said:


> Once I got the planer my soaps look great.  I use the wire then a week or so later plane and bevel them. They look so much better.


That is what I do as well. Love how my soaps look after planing!


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