# Liquid Castille



## MagiaDellaLuna

I have been asked to make a 100% OO liquid soap. The customer is allergic to Coconut in any form.

Has anyone made this before and is there also a "slime" factor involved ?

Thanks.


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## carebear

I haven't made it - but I don't think there would be a slime factor as long as you are using potassium hydroxide and not trying to just dilute down a bar soap.


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## MagiaDellaLuna

Thanks, Carebear.

I will be using KOH. I have made a few batches of liquid soap in the past, just never with plain OO. I will try a small batch and see how it turns out. He did not say I cannot use Castor oil and I'm thinking of perhaps doing 50/50 as those numbers come out better in soapcalc than 100 % OO.


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## Sunkawakan

MagiaDellaLuna said:
			
		

> He did not say I cannot use Castor oil and I'm thinking of perhaps doing 50/50 as those numbers come out better in soapcalc than 100 % OO.



I would ask him about the castor oil, if he's allergic to coconut oil, he might possibly be allergic to castor oil as well.

I've had GREAT success grating 5 oz oo soap (just oo & lye - already made from previous stock) and gently mixing it with 1/2 tsp pectin (yes, pectin) and 30 oz of water.  Heat on medum until thick.  Its time cosuming, takes about an 2 hrs to heat (be sure to stir GENTLY (you don't want foam) but I don't know if that would work for you or not.  I'm sure there's a better way but thats how I do it.


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## MagiaDellaLuna

I have mentioned to him that I normally use OO, CO, Palm and Castor. The only thing he mentioned as an allergy was Coconut.

Unfortunately I do not have any pure OO soap on hand. You method sounds interesting, but I will have to make a batch from scratch so I may as well use KOH.

When I have more time available it will make an interesting experiment though.


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## carebear

Sunkawakan said:
			
		

> MagiaDellaLuna said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've had GREAT success grating 5 oz oo soap (just oo & lye - already made from previous stock) and gently mixing it with 1/2 tsp pectin (yes, pectin) and 30 oz of water.  Heat on medum until thick.  Its time cosuming, takes about an 2 hrs to heat (be sure to stir GENTLY (you don't want foam) but I don't know if that would work for you or not.  I'm sure there's a better way but thats how I do it.
Click to expand...

really?  how interesting.  another experiment - whee!


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## Vintageliving

Sun, this sounds good.  What brand of pectin do you use?


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## Sunkawakan

Not sure, I'll check when I get home tonight and let you know.  I do remember that the box is yellow, blue and white and I got it in the canning seciton of wally world.


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## Vintageliving

Sun, thanks for checking.  I don't know that Walmart stocks the same brands in every store.  The different brands of pectin have different "ingredients".

I'm hoping the brand you use will be one I can get here.  I'll check this thread late today, too.

Your recipe appeals to me.  I'm keen to try it.


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## MagiaDellaLuna

Vintageliving said:
			
		

> Sun, thanks for checking.  I don't know that Walmart stocks the same brands in every store.  The different brands of pectin have different "ingredients".
> 
> I'm hoping the brand you use will be one I can get here.  I'll check this thread late today, too.
> 
> Your recipe appeals to me.  I'm keen to try it.



I have loads of soap "bits" from the ends of various logs ( not pure OO, so this will be for own use ) but I think I will give this a whirl too.

Sunkawakan, does the pectin prevent the soap and added water from separating after standing for a while ? In my early soaping days I "rescued" a failed rebatch by melting it down again and adding loads of water, thinking I could use it as a handwash liquid in the kitchen. It kept separating, so eventually I tossed it out.


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## Sunkawakan

Vintageliving said:
			
		

> Sunkawakan, does the pectin prevent the soap and added water from separating after standing for a while ?



All I can tell you is yes, apparently.  Mine has been sitting for about 2 months, getting used of course, with no separation.  I also use this method when making my shampoo.  I just make a batch adding my eos at the end.  I know it sounds weird, pectin in your hair but it makes for a nice shampoo - which after all is, in a sense, liquid soap, isn't it - I use the 2 interchangebly in a pinch.  If using on hair, and because I baby my hair, zap testing and curing is critical - I'd rather burn my skin than my hair!

I use a vinegar rinse on my hair (chamomile and apple cider vinegar) so any soap residue comes out without problem.


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## Vintageliving

Sun,  thanks for your posts.  That was MDL who asked about the separating.

Were you able to find out the name of the brand of pectin you use?

I'm going to try this in the next few days, as I've got some freshly made olive/castor soap.  It sounds as though this would be less work than making the liquid soap with potassium hydroxide.

I use apple cider vinegar as a rinse, too.  I quite like it.

How often/much do you stir the mixture while it's heating?

Do you heat until thick, or to a certain temperature?

Thanks so very much!


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## Sunkawakan

Sure-Jell http://brands.kraftfoods.com/surejell/products.htm
Wally world carries it in their canning section as does Safeway and King Soopers if you have them where you are.

I don't stir a lot and only with a spoon (I use wooden and only because I like them), you don't want it foamy.  Heat until the soap has melted and then I take a little bit out (1/2 tsp or so) and let it cool to test consistency - cook on medium or medium low until its just a bit thinner than what I want as it will thicken some with cooling - I like mine a bit thick but be reminded that the thicker it is, the lower the volume.  In other words, don't expect to get 30 oz of liquid soap out of this due to the thickening - make sense.

Hope this helps.  Next time I make a batch I'll take pics if anyone's interested.[/url]


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## Vintageliving

I bought the Sure Jell Premium Fruit Pectin.  Am going to give this a try today.

Sun, I'd be interested in photos of your next batch, if it's not much trouble.

Thank you very much for posting this recipe, and for your help.

Do you ever add essential oils, or extras, such as jojoba oil?


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## Sunkawakan

I add the eos just before pouring into the bottles (warning, go light) and will occasionally use joboba in the soaps - in fact, thats the ONLY time I use it is when I'm making soap for shampoo.  

Also, rather than water I will, on occasion and/or special request from my sister, substitute a chamomile infusion for the water but you could use any infusion I suppose.  I've never tried milk of any kind, not sure if it would curdle or not and don't really want milk in my hair. 

I run it through soap calc, and use about 1 oz per 2lb batch (the rest is oo).  I'll also add 1 tbs white sugar ppo but thats just habit and I like the lather it creates.


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## Vintageliving

Sun, thanks.  I agree, I wouldn't want milk in my hair.

I'll make an olive/jojoba batch of soap bars for shampoo soon.  That sounds nice for face washing, too.  I sometimes use straight jojoba oil as under eye and neck moisturizer.

I've got the pot on the stove now.  Great fun!

Do you ever add anything other than essential oils before pouring into bottles?

It's very generous of you to post all this.  I appreciate your help.


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## Sunkawakan

Nope, nothing else - real simple.


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## Vintageliving

Do you ever add sugar to the liquid part as it is melting/thickening?

I like how simple this is.

I'm going to give this a try for liquid laundry soap too, once my lard soap sets up a bit.


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## Sunkawakan

"Do you ever add sugar to the liquid part as it is melting/thickening? "

No, that's what the pectin does I guess and to me that would be making soap jelly (yuck).  And, as I said, I put sugar in my soap.  Sounds like you might be over thinking it.  Try a small batch (say 2.5 oz soap to 15 oz water and 1/4 tsp pectin if you're concerned.  That way if you don't like the results you're not out much.


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## Vintageliving

Sun, thanks very much.  I've got the full batch on the stove and it looks good.

I'll try some sugar in a small batch of soap and see how I like it.


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## MagiaDellaLuna

Sunkawakan, thank you so much for all the advice.

I must admit that I am dying to try this. Certainly a lot easier than making regular liquid soap..............and I have been meaning to make a new batch of shampoo, so I think I will do that before going on to the special order for my customer.

If I were to make a Castille bar, how long would I have to let it cure to avoid any slimy effect in the diluted (with pectin) liquid soap ?


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## Vintageliving

MDL, I'll test the shampoo I made yesterday and post a report.  I used soap which I made Oct. 1 and unmolded Oct. 5.

Might be tomorrow before I test and report.


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## MagiaDellaLuna

Vintageliving said:
			
		

> MDL, I'll test the shampoo I made yesterday and post a report.  I used soap which I made Oct. 1 and unmolded Oct. 5.
> 
> Might be tomorrow before I test and report.



Thanks, Vintageliving. That will be great. I have so little spare time for soaping that any time saving advice is greatly appreciated.

ETA...I managed to get some Pectin, so hopefully I can try this out tonight. I will be using remnants of a Milk/Silk/Honey bar (powdered milk). Very exciting


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## Vintageliving

I tried the shampoo.  It cleans very nicely.  It seemed a bit too "strong", so I am going to dilute mine as I like a thinner shampoo to get through my hair to the scalp.  I will also test adding a bit of glycerin, as I like the feel of glycerine in shampoo.  I also think that having jojoba oil in the shampoo would be nice.

It does thicken up several "shades" after cooling.

Will report back after I test my additives.  That'll be a few days from now.

I also plan to try this method for dishwashing liquid, and laundry soap.


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## MagiaDellaLuna

Hi Vintageliving

Thanks for the feedback. I am soooo inspired now that I will definitely make some tonight.
I always add a few drops of Jojoba and also EO to my shampoo.

Was there any slime from such a new OO soap ? Was there much soap scum/residue ? I cannot stand the smell of Cider vinegar in my hair which is very long (waist length) and thick. Within a few hours it smells like a brewery  We have extremely hot days here !!

I wonder whether a weak Citric acid solution would work as a rinse.


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## Vintageliving

MDL, The soap feels a tad slimy to me, but it could be the bar soap of 89% olive/11% castor, and not the pectin.  I'm hoping the glycerin will give it a slicker feel.  Nothing felt like soap scum to me.  When I rinsed my hair, before using the cider vinegar, my hair felt less soap-scummy than with liquid soap from the health food store.

There is citric acid, jojoba oil, Vit E, sea salt and hemp oil added to the saponified coconut and olive oil in the store-bought.

I rinse out the vinegar.  I tried once, a couple of weeks ago, not rinsing it out.  The vinegar smell didn't go away until I washed my hair again.

My hair is long, and porous, so whatever smells are around, go right into my hair.

I like experimenting with this.  Hope yours go well! 

Unless I do something unusual, I'll test the amended shampoo on Sunday and report in then.

My hair is still damp from washing it this morning, but it does have a good texture.

If you try the citric acid, will you post a report?

I'm still using some leave-on conditioner that I bought at a health food store.  I'm hoping with the pectin recipe that I'll be able to duplicate it.

I wait until my hair has dried about halfway before putting the conditioner on it.  I only use straight oil on my hair when it is dry.  Otherwise, the oil weights my hair down.


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## MagiaDellaLuna

Holy Moly.............I think I cooked this a while too long :shock:  :shock:  

After cooling there was some creamy "stuff" on top of the more clear soap. Probably the excess oils from the superfatted soap which I had grated. Possibly also some of the milk powder which was in the soap.

The whole lot was quite thick at that stage, so I used the beater to get it all evenly mixed again, not wanting to waste any of the "good stuff"

I now have a cream soap which shows no sign of separating. I will try it as a shampoo tomorrow and report back on that and also the Citric acid rinse which I plan to try instead of Cider vinegar.

..................but my mind is working overtime.

I think in it's present state this will also make a fabulous shaving cream, so I will hand some out to male relatives and ask them to evaluate it.

Another thing which I will try with it is.............
sugar/salt scrub !!

I love the way sugar scrub makes my skin feel, but hate the oiliness of most scrub recipes. I will add some lovely Avocado or Macadamia Nut oil and 50/50 sugar/salt. Once I have the measurements and the test results I will post them, but how fabulous to have a scrub and a soap all in one    When the scrubbing is done, just add water, lather up and rinse off.

Many thanks to Sunkawakan for sharing this revolutionary ( pretty sure I have never heard of this method before ) idea.

Vintageliving, your enthusiasm has infected me. Thanks for all your input.


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## Vintageliving

MDL, your soap sounds wonderful.  What was your bar soap made of?  How long did you heat the liquid mixture?

I keep thinking of things to try with this method!

Thanks for your kind thoughts.

I'll post reports as soon as I do my next experimenting.


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## MagiaDellaLuna

The bar soap was a Whipped Soap made with Palm, Coconut, Olive and Castor. Additives were full cream milk powder added last, honey dissolved in the water, silk dissolved in the lye.

I let it cook for 2 hours on a medium/low setting (so that it did not actually come to the boil) but it looked too thin even though there were floaty bits on top which I thought was just foam at that stage.

Cooked for another hour and then left it to cool down. Once it had completely cooled it was pretty thick but not solid. Almost like a thick apple sauce.

I hope I can repeat this result with another bunch of Peppermint EO scraps which I have. I want to use it for the sugar/salt scrub experiment. I think it would make a good scrub for gardener's hands.


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## MagiaDellaLuna

There is no turning back now 

I have been using commercial shampoo for a while because the old method for making liquid soap is so time consuming.

This is what I did with my new "cream" soap.......

I wet my hair, scooped out some of the "cream" soap and lathered it between my hands, then into my hair. Rinsed out and repeated. Rinsed with plain water. At this stage my hair was squeaky clean. Used a rinse of 1 TBS Citric acid crystals dissolved first in a little boiling water, then topped up to about 2 lt. (that's about 3.5 pints) with lukewarm water. Then a final rinse with plain water.

I decided not to use conditioner so that I could feel whether this would have a drying effect on my normally dry type hair.

Guess I won't be needing the conditioner anyway. My hair and scalp feel great and I have more volume to my hair, not that I need it  I also noticed that there was less shedding. Normally I shed like a Wookie 

I'm loving this.


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## Vintageliving

MDL, your bar soap sounds great.

I'm going to try a different bar recipe, and cook the liquid for three hours, and try the citric acid.

I agree, no turning back now!


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## MagiaDellaLuna

I have tried 3 batches now, each with a different cooking time.

The second batch cooked for 2 hours. (remnants of Geranium/Palma Rosa whipped soap). This did not have any creamy bits floating on top, so I think my suspicion that the first batch had milk powder residue in it was correct. Possibly also protein from the Silk. The second batch cooled to an almost pasty consistency. I had poured it into squeeze bottles before it cooled completely. I can squeeze it out but still find it a little too thick.

The third batch cooked for 1 hour. (remnants of Litsea/Ginger/Patchouli whipped soap). So far, so good. It is pretty liquid and lathers very well. Still just under lukewarm so it may thicken a little more.

Now I am thinking............

Shower Gel..............  

would Arrowroot or Xanthan Gum be the better choice to turn this into Gel ?


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## Vintageliving

MDL,  cooking times, arrowroot, xantham gum, hmmmm, more happy experiments to come.  Thanks for the suggestions.

I am thinking about cooking some Irish Moss and using it for thickener.  I like all the possibilities with this.


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## MagiaDellaLuna

.......from the diary of a compulsive experimentalist   

The 3 hour batch from a few days ago is holding up nicely. The texture is still like a creamy mousse with no sign of separating.

The 2 hour batch (which was not beaten after the cook/melt) is a very thick paste which is difficult to squeeze out of the bottles.

The 1 hour batch has firmed up quite a bit, so I will not be needing the Xanthan Gum for this batch. It is now a thick liquid but squeezes out of the bottle easily. Good texture for a shampoo.

I am going to try a half hour batch which should be just enough time to get the soap shavings melted down. If that stays runny after cooling and sitting for a while I will try the Xanthan Gum to make a Gel.


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## Vintageliving

MDL, thanks for your report.

I took a bit of my batch made with the olive/castor bar and amended it with glycerin.  I like the glycerine in it.  My hair feels much less "attacked" than it does with the Dr. Bronner's mixture.  (Why did I wait so long to start making my own soap???)  

I was at a quilt meeting today and a woman who owns a quilt shop commented on how soft the skin was on my hands.  I told her about soapmaking, and I think she's going to give it a try!  

I don't have unusually nice skin on my hands, but I don't have the rough patches and difficulties that many do who work with fabrics.  Those chemical finishes are so rough.

Soaps I'm planning to make in order to use this pectin method:

 olive/jojoba bar for shampoo
 lard bar for dishwashing soap

MDL, I'm looking forward to your next report!


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## MagiaDellaLuna

Vintageliving, looks like only the 2 of us are into this experiment now 

I like the idea of OO and Castor for my actual shampoo, but I will add some Jojoba after the pectin cook. I don't want to lose any of the beneficial wax during saponification. I used to add about 10 drops to a 200 ml bottle of the old style liquid soap and found that was enough.

The other thing about the pectin method that has surprised me is that the EO's which were in my shreds have actually retained their aroma in the pectin soap. I expected them to totally evaporate, but the aroma is still there even though it is not so strong.

Are you going to superfat the lard soap for the dishwash ? Let me know how that turns out. I have only ever used vegetable oils, but might be tempted to try Lard if it works well.

ETA My late Gran used to soap with Lard for laundry soap, but I switched to vegetable shortening.


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## Vintageliving

MDL, 

I have some lard soap which I did not superfat.   I will make a tiny batch of pectin soap with it, as a test batch for dishwashing liquid.  It crumbled a bit taking it out of the mold, but the chunks (can't exactly call them bars) are hardening nicely.  (I may try melting some of the lard soap in water, mixed with borax, for laundry soap.  I don't care if it is thick or thin.)

I will make a test with my olive/castor/glycerin and add some jojoba to it.  I've been putting jojoba oil directly on my hair.  I alternate that with lanolin, and castor.  A different one each night.  I hate to put jojoba in shampoo if it doesn't make a definite improvement, as it is expensive.

I would like to try the lard for dishes and laundry as it costs less than the other fats and oils I've been considering.

I want to do some reading about hydrogenation, as the pre-rendered lard I've found is a mixture of lard and partially hydogenated lard.  I don't want to be using something that has the molecular structure of plastic in my soaps.

I'll post my next round, and am looking forward to your next reports.


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## Vintageliving

Test batch using 100% lard soap, no SF, is thickening nicely.

Will add baking soda, and a couple of drops of tea tree oil.

This will be dishwashing soap.

Edited to add:  the baking soda added the to freshly made liquid soap starts turning it back into solid soap.  I had quite a chuckle.  That got me squishing the "coagulating" soap through a sieve and adding great quantities of water.  It washed dishes just fine, but wasn't the soap I intended to make.

Looks like the best method it to use the liquid soap and add the baking soda, as needed, during each round of dish washing.

The tea tree oil is nice and takes the edge off the smell of lard.


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## ctmax

I did this using some of my ugly soaps and I have to say this is what I will be doing with all of my soap that I don't like.  It worked perfect.  I did get a little impatient though, it didn't seem like it was thickening so I added another 1/2 t of pectin and when it cooled down I had some really thick soap.  I added more water to thin it out and so far it hasn't seperated.  Thank you for this wonderful idea.


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## andreja

Wow, how come I haven't seen this before? Can't wait to try it out! Just like cooking jam.


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## MagiaDellaLuna

Vintageliving said:
			
		

> Test batch using 100% lard soap, no SF, is thickening nicely.
> 
> Will add baking soda, and a couple of drops of tea tree oil.
> 
> This will be dishwashing soap.
> 
> Edited to add:  the baking soda added the to freshly made liquid soap starts turning it back into solid soap.  I had quite a chuckle.  That got me squished the "coagulating" soap through a sieve and adding great quantities of water.  It washed dishes just fine, but wasn't the soap I intended to make.
> 
> Looks like the best method it to use the liquid soap and add the baking soda, as needed, during each round of dish washing.
> 
> The tea tree oil is nice and takes the edge off the smell of lard.



ROFL. Sounds like the baking soda took it full circle, but at least you were able to salvage it. Brings back fond memories  of the first batch I tried, the 3 hour batch. I also tried squishing that through a sieve. What a mess !! I gave up, salvaged what I could and then beat the living daylights out of it. The creamy mousse that it ended up as has kept it's texture ever since, but I do not know whether I can get the same result again. My brother tried some of this batch for shaving and loves it.
I have so much liquid soap now of different thicknesses that I will have to wait a while before I make any more.

@ ctmax and andreja
Welcome aboard. This can become very addictive. Get plenty of bottles ready, you will need them 
I have made about 5 batches and am planning another one with my few remaining scraps.


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## Vintageliving

MDL, yes the sludge can be used, but it wasn't at all what I intended.  I did have to chuckle.

My first batch with the olive/castor separated a bit.  I shook the bottle and it has stayed mixed for a day since then.

Will try some of the re-amended shampoo later today.  It has glycerin, water, and jojoba oil added.

Planning to make more shampoo with this, albeit sans sodium bicarbonate.   :wink:

I apologize for the lack of editing in my earlier post.  Goodness, I must have been tired.

Ctmax and Andreja, will you post how your batches come out?


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## andreja

Vintageliving said:
			
		

> Ctmax and Andreja, will you post how your batches come out?


Of course! I just have to do it first.  :wink:  I am not at home yet, but will be in few days. I don't have any bar of pure castille, so I will try with other soap I have.


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## tracy

Well now I'm all excited to melt down some soap and try this for myself!

 I have a question about colorings though. I have a batch of soap that I colored with turmeric and paprika (which worked pretty well), which I'm thinking of using for this experiment . As a shampoo, would that be something that would turn my hair funky colors or is it pretty much all absorbed in the soap? I know that's a dumb question, but when it comes to my hair I'd rather ask than find out the hard way!


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## MagiaDellaLuna

tracy said:
			
		

> Well now I'm all excited to melt down some soap and try this for myself!
> 
> I have a question about colorings though. I have a batch of soap that I colored with turmeric and paprika (which worked pretty well), which I'm thinking of using for this experiment . As a shampoo, would that be something that would turn my hair funky colors or is it pretty much all absorbed in the soap? I know that's a dumb question, but when it comes to my hair I'd rather ask than find out the hard way!



You could still try this out and use as a liquid handwash. Perhaps the spices will not be great for your hair. Best to use an uncoloured soap for shampoo.


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## tracy

Yeah, you're probably right - I think I'll use another unscented uncolored batch for that. Glad I found you guys - it helps take the mystery out of this whole soapmaking thing!


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## MagiaDellaLuna

tracy said:
			
		

> Yeah, you're probably right - I think I'll use another unscented uncolored batch for that. Glad I found you guys - it helps take the mystery out of this whole soapmaking thing!



You can add EO's which are correct for your hair type to the finished liquid, or use soap with those EO's already in it. If you are not sure which, tell me the type i.e. Dry, Oily etc. and I will look it up for you in "The Fragrant Pharmacy".


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## Vintageliving

MDL, that sounds useful.

Would you mind looking up a couple for...dry, um, er,  grey hair? :wink:

(It's still hard to admit the grey hair.)   

Thanks!


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## MagiaDellaLuna

Vintageliving said:
			
		

> MDL, that sounds useful.
> 
> Would you mind looking up a couple for...dry, um, er,  grey hair? :wink:
> 
> (It's still hard to admit the grey hair.)
> 
> Thanks!



Lavender, Geranium, Carrot, Yarrow, Sandalwood.

then for moisture use Jojoba or Avocado, but Jojoba would be my first choice.

Not much we can do about the grey


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## Vintageliving

MDL, thank you very much!  I'm trying to adjust to the grey.

Can/could you say why you'd choose jojoba over avocado?

Reports on the liquid soap experiments:

Batch No. One, the olive oil/castor now stays separated.  That'll have to be shaken before every use.  Still useable, but not as nice as I'd like.

Batch No. Two, the no-SF, lard round into which  I put the baking soda, has solidified, not bar hard, but not goopy. There also seems to now be unsaponified lard, as if the baking soda separated things!  I'm thinking of melting it and turning it into bars again.  Baking soda is definitely not a good addition the pectin method.  Oh, well.


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## MagiaDellaLuna

Vintageliving said:
			
		

> Can/could you say why you'd choose jojoba over avocado?
> 
> Reports on the liquid soap experiments:
> 
> Batch No. One, the olive oil/castor now stays separated.  That'll have to be shaken before every use.  Still useable, but not as nice as I'd like.
> 
> Batch No. Two, the no-SF, lard round into which  I put the baking soda, has solidified, not bar hard, but not goopy. There also seems to now be unsaponified lard, as if the baking soda separated things!  I'm thinking of melting it and turning it into bars again.  Baking soda is definitely not a good addition the pectin method.  Oh, well.



Thanks for the feedback on the experiments.

Jojoba most closely resembles the sebum which we would naturally produce and dry hair indicates a lack of natural sebum. Jojoba is actually a wax and seems to coat the hair without making it greasy. I suspect Avocado might feel a bit greasy. You don't need much Jojoba, only about 10 - 20 drops in a 200 ml bottle of shampoo.

My experiments have all stayed as they were at last report. Mousse is still holding up, thick paste is impossible to squeeze out of the bottle and the more liquid (1 hour) soap is holding up nicely.

I need to restock on Xanthan Gum, then I will try a half hour batch and hopefully it will be thin enough so that I can try to tranform it into shower gel.


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## Vintageliving

MDL, I'm glad your batches have stayed consistent.

Thank you for the information on the oils.  I use jojoba directly on my hair, and sometimes on my skin. I quite like it.  I alternate with castor, lanolin, and coconut, using one each evening.  Though, I find I use less of the coconut.  The lanolin is very nice on chapped hands after gardening or serious chores.


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## Bajramovic

Could somebody tell me what's the purity of KOH you use?
I could only find 85% pure(i think the rest is H2O) and i buy that stuff from a pharmaceutical supplier,so I guess that's the purest KOH I can find.

Do i put like 14% more or what?

Thanks


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## MagiaDellaLuna

Bajramovic said:
			
		

> Could somebody tell me what's the purity of KOH you use?
> I could only find 85% pure(i think the rest is H2O) and i buy that stuff from a pharmaceutical supplier,so I guess that's the purest KOH I can find.
> 
> Do i put like 14% more or what?
> 
> Thanks



Not quite sure. I have given up on the conventional liquid soap process as it just takes too long.


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## ctmax

ctmax said:
			
		

> I did this using some of my ugly soaps and I have to say this is what I will be doing with all of my soap that I don't like.  It worked perfect.  I did get a little impatient though, it didn't seem like it was thickening so I added another 1/2 t of pectin and when it cooled down I had some really thick soap.  I added more water to thin it out and so far it hasn't seperated.  Thank you for this wonderful idea.



I was just going to update everyone.  In my last post I mentioned I got impatient and added another 1/2t of pectin.  Well I poured everything into a sealer and put it under the sink.  A few days later I came back and it looked like everything seperated, so I just gave it a good shake and put it back.  Then a couple days after that I went to pour it into a soap container and it was like grape jelly pretty solid.  I started shaking it really hard and it liquified and has stayed together ever since.  When I do this again I will stick to the 1/2 t of pectin and see how that goes.


----------



## Vintageliving

Ctmax, thanks for your reports.  It's useful to how adding this or that, or doing this or that effects the batch.


----------



## HomekeepingGran

As I am understanding this thread, you are all getting creamy-looking soaps, not clear, right?  (or wrong?)  Also, if you make dishwashing liquid how are the suds?  I have some lard, coconut, olive and castor bars curing but they have no added sugar.  Dishwashing liquid wouldn't feel right without lots of bubbles!   :wink:


----------



## ctmax

I made a liquid hand soap.  I actually used some whipped soap that was scented with vanilla.  So my hand soap is actually a brown color.  I have not tried dish soap yet.


----------



## MagiaDellaLuna

HomekeepingGran said:
			
		

> As I am understanding this thread, you are all getting creamy-looking soaps, not clear, right?  (or wrong?)  Also, if you make dishwashing liquid how are the suds?  I have some lard, coconut, olive and castor bars curing but they have no added sugar.  Dishwashing liquid wouldn't feel right without lots of bubbles!   :wink:



Correct, the soap is creamy not clear. I have only used this as shampoo and for washing my hands, never tested it as a dishwash.

I think that you will not get the same quality of suds with handmade soap that you will get from a detergent based dishwash as the lather from handmade soap does not have the same staying power anyway IMO, but I believe it will still do a good job of cleaning the dishes. My only concern would be about using it in a dishwasher as there would be residual soap scum depending on the level of superfatting of the base soap.

With that being said, why not try a batch ? It does not take much base soap and at worst if you find that it is not suitable as a dishwash you will have some creamy hand soap (or shampoo) to use.


----------



## HomekeepingGran

Very true, Magia!  Oh, I'm sure dishes can be clean without bubbles.  It's just one of those things where I'm conditioned for the bubbles, plus, I strongly suspect my husband will be all weird about non-traditional dishwashing liquid, especially if it doesn't bubble.  I have no intention of using it for either the automatic dishwasher or probably not my bum-length hair either, since the base bar is lard based.

Totally Off Topic: By the way, Magia, VintageLiving, I am very proud of my grey but I prefer to call it _silver_ because _Silver Rocks! _ I never got hair color compliments until I silvered up some.  Either or both of you might enjoy Going Gray Looking Great.  Magia, if you love your long hair, you might also like The Long Hair Community Forum.

Back to Your Regularly Scheduled Topic: Do I need to let my Piggy Batch totally cure before turning some of it into pectin dishwashing soap?  I still have enough Palmolive dishwashing liquid left to let it cure longer if need but I'm just antsy to make it.   :wink:   And as you said, if I don't like it for dishes it can always be handsoap.


----------



## MagiaDellaLuna

Hi Carla.

I gave in to pressure from my sisters and started colouring my hair. It is going to take a while to grow it back out, but I have given it a lot of thought.

I used some well cured bits for my experiments. I think it might be dodgy to use anything less well cured unless it does not zap in the slightest. Grate some up and zap test the slivers. You can always let them sit a bit longer in their grated state if they zap.


----------



## HomekeepingGran

(((((((Magia))))))))   

I know, Magia.  Practically everybody colors their hair because the societal pressure to do so seems to be intense.  And once you start, it is really hard to quit, apparently.  Somehow, hair coloring has never interested me but I was fortunate enough to not show too much grey (ahem, silver) until in my mid 40s.  Then I got a cool streak down the bangs section so it has been good.  I have a tad _more_ than a streak now.  LOL.

OK... back to soap.  Most likely the Palmolive will hold up until the Piggy Bars are fully cured so I'll simply wait that one out.  Thank you for the help.


----------



## Vintageliving

HG, I made liquid soap using olive/castor bars that were only a few days old.  The mixture separated.  I have to shake it before using it.  I put a bit of it in a shampoo bottle, add more water, some glycerin and jojoba oil.  It's a great shampoo for me.  I'm wondering if it separated because the olive/castor bar hadn't properly cured.

I made a batch using no-superfat, lard soap, which was but a few days old, for dishwashing liquid.  It probably would have turned out fine, but I put in some baking soda, thinking that would give it more cleaning ooomph.  Ha, it made a mess, turned the liquid into an almost solid.  I re-batched it and now have a slithery, very thick gel.  I've been using it for dishes, but it's not easy to use.

I will make another batch of liquid soap with pectin, using the no-superfat, lard bars, after I've used up the glop I made.

MDL, do you think this method would work for pine tar shampoo?


----------



## MagiaDellaLuna

Vintageliving said:
			
		

> MDL, do you think this method would work for pine tar shampoo?



Hiya, Vintageliving

I have absolutely no experience with pine tar soap. I haunted every hardware, equestrian and feed supply store to get hold of some, but no luck finding usable pine tar in South Africa.

I am guessing that any soap can be "liquidized" with water and pectin, but am not sure whether the pine tar would seperate out like the milk powder seemed to do in my one batch, but then again that may just have been because I overcooked it.


----------



## Vintageliving

MDL, thanks.  I may just have to try a daring experiment.


----------



## pink-north

You kbow this thread is so interesting I think I'll print it out. One day I will try to make liquid soap. I need to find a close supplier of KOH. That's why I love this forum, one can learn sooooo much. Thanks guys


----------



## Vintageliving

I'm wondering if my shampoo batch separated because I cooked at too high a heat, or too long.  I've been thinking about MDL's post about the milk separating.

I've just made a batch of pine tar soap.  I plan to turn some of that into pine tar shampoo using the pectin method.  Will report as soon as I dare melt a bar....


----------



## MagiaDellaLuna

Well, I finally got around to making the "gel". I have bottled it and will post results after a few days so I can monitor what happens to it over the next few days. So far, so good. It has a nice slip to it, not as clear as I would have liked but it lathers well and rinses off very easily. Depending on how well it holds up I think this will be my preferred method for shampoo as it is easier to handle than the mousse.


----------



## Vintageliving

MDL, what did you differently with the "gel" than with previous batches?

I'm getting ready to make another batch.


----------



## MagiaDellaLuna

Hiya VL.
I used
170 g of soap shreds
1000 g of spring water (non sparkling mineralwater will do) I had run out of distilled water 
2 ml pectin.

My settings go upto 6, I set the heat on level 4 so it would heat up faster. Stirred slowly with a wire whisk. All the soap had melted after 20 minutes (starting from a cold start on the cooker/stove) but it did not come to the boil.
Reduced heat to level 3 for another 5 minutes (just for luck)

Turned heat off but left the pot on the cooker.

Sprinkled 3 ml Xanthan gum into the pot and stirred a little faster till it was all incorporated, then left it to cool. It looked like cloudy Jello when it was cold and I had to loosen it up by using the wire whisk, but it just slid through the funnel into the bottles.

It forms a creamy lather when rubbed between dry hands and then more bubbly when a little water is added. Might feel a tad slimy to some, but not so much that it is unpleasant. Rinses out very easily.

I am also going to try another batch (if I can find any more bottles  ) with only Xanthan gum, no pectin. Same quantity of soap and water but with 4 - 5 ml Xanthan gum.

Will post results, good or bad.


----------



## Vintageliving

MDL, thanks for posting your gel experiment.  

What do you like about the consistency, or any other aspect of the gel, with the xanthum gum?  How is the result different than not using it?



If I get around to it, I think Irish Moss would be worth a try as a thickener.  I bought some, but haven't used it yet.  I wanted to use it to try blancmange.


----------



## MagiaDellaLuna

Vintageliving said:
			
		

> MDL, thanks for posting your gel experiment.
> 
> What do you like about the consistency, or any other aspect of the gel, with the xanthum gum?  How is the result different than not using it?
> 
> 
> 
> If I get around to it, I think Irish Moss would be worth a try as a thickener.  I bought some, but haven't used it yet.  I wanted to use it to try blancmange.



It seems more fluid, had better slip to it.


----------



## HomekeepingGran

I tried this technique today, hoping for dishwashing liquid.  Well, it looks pretty and smells good with the lime EO but it makes no suds.  Period.  

I started by grating 5 oz. of a lard/coconut/olive and castor bar.  Melted it in 30 oz. of water with ½ tsp. of pectin.  It didn't take too long to melt and once it was all liquid, I added 1 tsp. of lime EO.  It set up to a soft gel like everyone else talked about.  I'm kind of wondering what to do with it.  I'm sure it will clean hands or maybe (gulp) my hair.  My question is, what have the rest of you done with your projects spawned by this thread?


----------



## MagiaDellaLuna

Hi Carla
I am away from home on a work assignment, so I have not seen the "experiments" for just over a week now.

I use the more liquid of the results as a hand wash, both in the kitchen and the bathroom. The first batch which turned out like a mousse has kept it's texture and I am using that to wash my hair. I found that I need to wet my hands, apply some of the soap then work up a lather before adding too much more water.

The batch which I made before leaving home was made without pectin, but with Xanthan Gum. I have not posted the results as yet because I wanted to see how it turns out once I get back home. I think I used too much of the Xanthan though. It was interesting to say the least, like a cohesive gel but still very slippery and fluid. It did not budge when the bottle was inverted, but given a good shake once or twice it would ooze en masse to the opposite side of the bottle. Lathered and rinsed out nicely. I will give an update in about 2 weeks when I am back home.


----------



## Vintageliving

HG,  the shampoo doesn't lather much, but works very well.  Having lots of bubbles isn't important to me.  

I have yet to make a new batch of dishwashing soap.  I'm still using the re-batched glop I made, to which I had originally added baking soda.  It has no bubbles, and is an odd mixture.  I'll make another batch of dishwashing soap sometime.

I'll make another shampoo batch next month and will report.


----------



## HomekeepingGran

I just didn't think it cleaned my dishes particularly well, suds or no suds.  I couldn't tell at first since I was doing my less greasy things to begin with (my usual habit) but once there was a bit of grease, it didn't cut it.  Then I tried it as a shampoo but quickly washed it out with my husband's Head & Shoulders sitting there.  It instantly coated my babyfine hair with... stuff... I don't know what to call it but I could feel it on my hair.  I didn't rinse with vinegar before the H & S so maybe it would have been OK, but I guess I panicked a little there.  (My hair is long, long and really fragile.  I had horrible visions of horribleness, LOL.)  

It did set up more like jello overnight.


----------



## Vintageliving

HG, what was your soap bar?

My shampoo is olive and castor at 5% Superfat.  The vinegar rinse is crucial.  MDL tried citric acid as a rinse and liked it, if I remember correctly.

My dishwashing soap is lard with no SF.  I plan to try one with vegetable shortening on the next round.

Some like coconut bars for household cleaning/dishes, etc.


----------



## HomekeepingGran

The lard bar was... I am remembering rather than having the records in front of me, you understand...

75% lard
10 % olive
10 % coconut
5% castor

This may not be exactly it but it's close and yes, there was a 5% superfat.  (I am a new soaper and don't have all the various specialty bars so many of you do.)  The dishes I let go since they mainly looked clean although I felt it was more the hot water and scrub with a washcloth than anything which cleaned them.  My hair on the other hand...  :shock:


----------



## Vintageliving

HG, could it be the superfat at 5% that makes it not so ideal for dishes?

I have yet to find coconut in soaps to be kind to my skin or hair.

I can't speak to lard in the bars for shampoo, as I haven't tried them.

We might have to wait for MDL, or for someone who has tried this pectin method with various bars.

The bars I use for shampoo are light olive oil 89% and castor 11% at 5% SF.  I added glycerin and jojoba oil, when the pectin mixture cooled, and  added more water, for the shampoo.  I use 1/3 cup apple cider vinegar for rinse.  I rinse out the vinegar, too.  I tried once not rinsing out the vinegar.  My hair smelled of vinegar for days!


----------



## MagiaDellaLuna

Vintageliving said:
			
		

> I can't speak to lard in the bars for shampoo, as I haven't tried them.
> 
> We might have to wait for MDL, or for someone who has tried this pectin method with various bars.
> 
> The bars I use for shampoo are light olive oil 89% and castor 11% at 5% SF.  I added glycerin and jojoba oil, when the pectin mixture cooled, and  added more water, for the shampoo.  I use 1/3 cup apple cider vinegar for rinse.  I rinse out the vinegar, too.  I tried once not rinsing out the vinegar.  My hair smelled of vinegar for days!



All the results are in the thread (which is becoming rather long  )
The vinegar rinse removed the residue, but the smell of it made my stomach heave. Even after rinsing it out I smelt like a brewery.

I am still using the Citric acid rinse which I described in one of the posts and it is very effective in removing the ickeyness.

I cannot wait to get back home to check on the state of my last experiment.


----------



## MagiaDellaLuna

HomekeepingGran said:
			
		

> My hair on the other hand...  :shock:



I can so relate to your shock and horror. As you know, I also have long hair and the first time I ever used homemade soap on my hair I was totally distraught. That ickey feeling from the soap residue was most alarming. The higher the superfat, the more residue and I SF to 8%. I had visions of having to wear a bandanna for life...............but the acid rinse takes it all out and leaves your hair soft and shiny.


----------



## HomekeepingGran

I guess I should have used an ACV rinse on my hair before I jumped to conclusions.  It will be a while before I shampoo again, though because my ends are going to need some time to recover from the lard/pectin gel and the Head & Shoulders.   :?  I may scalp wash only next time to give them a rest.  

Thanks, friends, for all your suggestions.


----------



## Vintageliving

HG, I always just do the scalp-wash, unless I've got paint or some such thing in my hair.  Hope you can find a combination that works well.


----------



## krissy

i am trying this as i type. this sounds like such a cool thing to try.


----------



## Vintageliving

Krissy, would you post a report on yours?  Dishwashing, hand soap or shampoo, etc.

Are you using the pectin, or xanthan gum?


----------



## krissy

i am using the pectin. so far i have it not quite boiling over very low heat for the past 10 mins. i am not really sure when to take it off the heat or when to pour it into a container...


----------



## HomekeepingGran

Vintageliving said:
			
		

> HG, I always just do the scalp-wash, unless I've got paint or some such thing in my hair.  Hope you can find a combination that works well.



Off Topic Hijack:  Even when I do use commercial shampoo I use only a little compared to the globs of suds the ads would have you think necessary.  And it goes on the scalp mainly and barely at all down the length.  However, lately I've been doing an oddball thing which has worked quite well.  Mix baking soda and very warm water till the soda dissolves (2 tbsp soda/2 cups water — more or less because the exact ratio isn't crucial) and pour it over the scalp.  Massage in and leave while you perform other showerly duties.  Rinse well.  Finish with an ACV rinse which is also lightly rinsed out, and you're good to go.  It doesn't strip my hair, although every several times I'll use a small bit of commercial 'poo and conditioner instead.  Mostly my hair does beautifully with benign neglect.

It amazes me exactly what all you can sucessfully clean with.


Back On Topic: Krissy, I will be interested in what you come up with.  My jars of this are like jelly once totally cooled.  But it seems like everyone else is having the same experience.


----------



## krissy

*pics so far...*

ok, i figured since no one has posted pics, i would and then i can ask questions/maybe answer someone else's.  
grated soap


dissolved soap in water



almost boil



thick and has kind of a "skin" like when making pudding





i took it off the heat and put it in a bowl to cool... we shall see what happens...


----------



## blueberrylolli

regarding the avc rinse, i tried it a few times but it's so annoying to make it when u need to shampoo and then it's pretty COLD not that pleasant.  really hard to keep it up everyday any suggestions? 

how much *liquid* do u use for a good rinse?  i've filled up those gallon bottles of water but always felt it was too much.  i tried 1/10 dilution is that too much? what do u do?

can u make a huge batch and store it somewhere, what method do u think is most efficient for using the avc? thanks!


----------



## HomekeepingGran

blueberrylolli said:
			
		

> regarding the avc rinse, i tried it a few times but it's so annoying to make it when u need to shampoo and then it's pretty COLD not that pleasant.  really hard to keep it up everyday any suggestions?
> 
> how much *liquid* do u use for a good rinse?  i've filled up those gallon bottles of water but always felt it was too much.  i tried 1/10 dilution is that too much? what do u do?
> 
> can u make a huge batch and store it somewhere, what method do u think is most efficient for using the avc? thanks!



Put a quart sized plastic container with a few (2-3 max) tablespoons of ACV into it.  When you are ready to rinse, fill the container with warm water from your running shower.  Rinse with ACV mix.  Rinse again briefly with plain warm water.


----------



## krissy

ok when the soap cooled it was like a slimy solid. it lathered beautifully and that was all fine, but felt strange. i think i over cooked it quite a bit. i ended up mixing it with a blender into a foamy mixture that feels like a thick shaving cream only slightly more solid-ish. i love it. from one bar of soap i got 16 oz of a creamed soap. i adore this!!


----------



## blueberrylolli

btw where can i buy pectin locally

checked walmart but they got nothing within 100 miles of where i live

i live in fort lee, new jersey.  i don't really grocery shop so i don't know what local stores might carry it.  any suggestions please?  

also can this be substituted by anything else?

btw i found this on how to make pectin (if all else fails)

http://www.wildflowers-and-weeds.com/Th ... pectin.htm

and citrus unripe fruit peels seem to have a lot of that stuff like lemons and oranges



> * Posted by readinglady z8 OR (My Page) on
> Mon, Jan 12, 09 at 21:02
> 
> Home cooks have been making pectin stock for a long, long time. Basically pectin stock can be made from any high-pectin fruit - apples, quinces, lemons, oranges, even plums I suppose. Apple stock is by far the most common because apples are loaded with natural pectin, they're available over a wide range of climate zones, they're easy to prep and the resulting stock is pretty "neutral." So apple pectin base is a good flavor carrier and can be used in a wide variety of jams and jellies without being obvious.
> 
> Citrus pectin has slightly different qualities from apple. There's a difference in texture and the flavor is more pronounced. The difference in texture doesn't mean it's inferior. Manufacturers will choose one over the other (apple v.s. citrus) depending upon what they're making and the "mouthfeel" they're aiming for. The more pronounced flavor of a lemon pectin base means it's most suited for a jam or jelly where you want that lemon.
> 
> The majority of pectin in citrus is contained in the white part of the skin — the pith or "albedo" — plus the membranes between the segments and the seeds. So if you really want some super-jelling pectin stock in large quantities, that's what you'll use. But, the pith is also bitter, so there is a tradeoff, which is why some "gourmet" commercial jam-makers settle for less quantity and use only the membranes and seeds.
> 
> You can find the formula for citrus pectin if you scroll down the page at the site link; it's an old document from 1931.
> 
> I hope this helps. Happy preserving,
> 
> Carol



so i'm gonna try to peel a few lemons, save that white stuff, and boil it in a whee bit of water on high heat for a small time and see if i get pectin O.O

anyone else want to try xD


----------



## krissy

*Re: pics so far...*



			
				krissy said:
			
		

> ok, i figured since no one has posted pics, i would and then i can ask questions/maybe answer someone else's.
> grated soap
> 
> 
> dissolved soap in water
> 
> 
> 
> almost boil
> 
> 
> 
> thick and has kind of a "skin" like when making pudding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i took it off the heat and put it in a bowl to cool... we shall see what happens...


ok this is what i ended up with...

nearly completely solid goo




so i used the mixer and whipped it with about 4 oz of water and got this...




it looks like a dessert of some sort. i love it!


----------



## MagiaDellaLuna

Fabulous, Krissy.

Thanks for posting the pics. I would have done, but my camera does not download properly.

That looks like the first batch I made and I think the longer cook definitely has something to do with the end result. I also whipped the living daylights out of mine (even though I did not add any more water) and ended up with a lovely mousse which even after all this time still has the same texture. That is the one I am using as shampoo now, but I also gave some to my brother to use as a shaving cream and he loves it.

I find that when I do not have time to make an actual batch of soap I can get some gratification from cooking up a batch of "liquid" soap 
and as you mentioned it is very economical to produce. The only trick is to find enough containers/bottles/jars for all the resulting soap. My last lot went into an empty mineral water bottle


----------



## krissy

mine went into a 16 oz container from Coconut Oil. i have so many containers left from soap making,lol. i am thinking of adding some sugar or salt and seeing how that feels in the shower.
i am also going to try this again without accidentally letting it boil! i think that is why i go the slime i ended up with at first.


----------



## Zenobiah

This thread is sooo cool! I have wanted to try liquid soap but have been dreading it too as it looked really complicated. This method looks a lot easier.

Eagerly awaiting your next results (until I get the nerve to try this myself).


----------



## Lil Outlaws

actually the pectin thing isn't so revolutionary - I read about it a few years ago in one of my books.. 
I think it was  Making Soaps by Paola Romanelli maybe?

It's her Shampoo recipe.. called for 1/2tsp of pectin.

I've done it a few times, even whipping it into shaving cream. good stuff!


----------



## Vintageliving

Lil Outlaws, do you just use soap, pectin and water, or do you add anything else?


----------



## Lil Outlaws

yeah just the soap/water/pectin. 
Here, I'll dig out the book 

Her recipe says "an indispensable ingredient in the preparation of liquid shampoo is pectin"

4.2oz grated soap
26oz water
1/2 tsp pectin powder

and then she listed the EOs she was using but obviously use whatever you want, or use scented soap gratings. 

The book says to melt soap in water in a double boiler (I use my crockpot though), add your EOs, then add 1/2tsp pectin and stir until it looks fluid. Fill a bottle with the shampoo, close top, and shake well before use.

I've messed around with it lots of ways (whipping, adding more water, more pectin, etc.) and though the results are always different it's still usually great to use!


----------



## MagiaDellaLuna

Well, I still stand by my statement that this is revolutionary to ME 

I do not have any books on soapmaking, so I am grateful to Sunkawakan for posting the pectin advice as it has opened up a whole new world for me as far as shampoo making is concerned.

Liquid soap making was something that I had tried, but decided that it was more work than justified the result which was less than satisfactory. I am thrilled with the pectin method and all the different ways it can be applied.

ETA...I will be back home tomorrow after 3 weeks away, so am really looking forward to seeing what has become of my last batch which was made with Xanthan gum rather than pectin.


----------



## Vintageliving

Lil Outlaws, thanks for posting the book excerpt.

I'm delighted with this method.  I appreciate how easy it is.  I find it very handy!

MDL,  am looking forward to your xanthum gum report.


----------



## Zenobiah

Thank you for these wonderful tips! 

Now to make an emulsified conditioner based on citric acid and water...


----------



## Lil Outlaws

Whomever said they weren't able to find it at Walmart, I'm really surprised!

It should be with the canning supplies, which are usually (I think) on the same aisle as baking goods. Just ask any little old lady you run into there  she'll know where it is!


----------



## violetflower

Wow, what a fantastic thread!!  I can't WAIT try the shampoo recipe, I have just ordered some pectin extract (all I could here!!), hopefully it will get here at lightning speed  so I can turn my castille bars into whipped shampoo!!    Can I add sugar as I haven't added sugar to my original batches (will do that next time!)  Thank you so much to everyone for posting their results to the experiments!


----------



## MagiaDellaLuna

violetflower said:
			
		

> Wow, what a fantastic thread!!  I can't WAIT try the shampoo recipe, I have just ordered some pectin extract (all I could here!!), hopefully it will get here at lightning speed  so I can turn my castille bars into whipped shampoo!!    Can I add sugar as I haven't added sugar to my original batches (will do that next time!)  Thank you so much to everyone for posting their results to the experiments!



Adding sugar at this time will not be a good idea as it will just produce a sticky mess. Your shampoo will turn out fine even though you did not use sugar in your original Castille bars.

Please let us know your results as we are all eager to learn from one another.


----------



## Deb

I'll be trying this next week with my shavings from this weeks fair....
and I"ll post results. 

Re long hair: I"m no longer a member of the long hair club, but I used to have it past my waist before I developed PCOS/Hypothyroidism/Celiac and the resulting hair loss..(bald patches with hair being pulled down? not attractive. I need it shorter now to give it volume). 

Have any of you ladies tried conditioner only? YOu cover your hair/scalp with conditioner, leave it to soak 10 minutes or so..I used to conditioner up get in, clean myself off, stand for a few minutes and then rinse. 

It feels lovely adn silky and clean to me then...at first i couldn't imagine how it worked and then i read the ingredient list.


----------



## MagiaDellaLuna

Deb said:
			
		

> Have any of you ladies tried conditioner only? YOu cover your hair/scalp with conditioner, leave it to soak 10 minutes or so..I used to conditioner up get in, clean myself off, stand for a few minutes and then rinse.
> 
> It feels lovely adn silky and clean to me then...at first i couldn't imagine how it worked and then i read the ingredient list.



I have very dry hair so this sounds like a great idea for a "moisture booster".
Will let you know when I try it.


----------



## violetflower

MagiaDellaLuna said:
			
		

> violetflower said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, what a fantastic thread!!  I can't WAIT try the shampoo recipe, I have just ordered some pectin extract (all I could here!!), hopefully it will get here at lightning speed  so I can turn my castille bars into whipped shampoo!!    Can I add sugar as I haven't added sugar to my original batches (will do that next time!)  Thank you so much to everyone for posting their results to the experiments!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Adding sugar at this time will not be a good idea as it will just produce a sticky mess. Your shampoo will turn out fine even though you did not use sugar in your original Castille bars.
> 
> Please let us know your results as we are all eager to learn from one another.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the advice!   

I will definitely will let you know how it turned out!!


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## Vintageliving

Am melting/mixing a new batch with EVOO-Castor bars.  I'll add glycerin and a little olive oil to it for shampoo.  I have really enjoyed using that first batch.  My hair and scalp have felt better with this than any of the health-food-store shampoos I'd tried.  This is such a thrifty, easy way to make shampoo.  It's delightful to be able to put in exactly what one chooses!


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## soapqueen

I just made some of this yesterday with a couple of year old bars of my own soap. Even when it had cooled down it was like water; I resisted the temptation to heat again and add more pectin, and left it to sit for several hours by which time it turned to an apple sauce consistency. I added a tbs of glycerin and a few mls of lavender eo, and whipped it up to a lovely mousse. Used a glob this morning as shampoo, and it lathered up really well. Rinsed with a couple of pints of cyder vinegar in water, then rinsed with water. Didn't use conditioner to really test the effects.

I wouldn't say my hair is any better than usual, but it's no worse. So I'm well pleased to have found a way to cut out all the synthetic rubbish in supermarket shampoos, save myself some money, and finally find a use for all my failed batches.

Thanks so much for posting this really useful tip.


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## soapqueen

P.S. It's no good as dish washing liquid.  

But now I'm thinking of seeing if it would act as an emulsifier to make lotions. I have had some success with using lecithin granules. My understanding is that E-was contains SLS and PEG 100 whiich I think is derived from petroleum,  both of which I want to avoid in my products.


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## soapqueen

sorry, I meant E-wax


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## Vintageliving

Soapqueen, nice to read that the method worked well for you.  I, too, am glad to be free of trying to needing to buy shampoo.

I hope someone posts a way to have success with this method for dishwashing liquid.


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## soapqueen

Hi VL,
One reason it's not great for washing up liquid is that it makes the water very cloudy. Another is that the bubbles disappear too fast. Another is that it just isn't concentrated enough to cut through the grease. Maybe a pure coconut soap with no superfat and made partly with potassium instead of all sodium hydroxide would go some way to solving the latter two problems, but not sure how you would solve the first.


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## Vintageliving

Soapqueen, I'll give the dishwashing liquid another go sometime.  I ruined my first attempt by putting baking soda in it.  I've got a great jar of glop now.  Think I might use it for laundry.

I don't mind cloudy water, nor low suds.  Just need it to make the dishes squeaky clean, be easy to use, and economical.

I'll post a report when I experiment again.

At least I've got a great shampoo, which saves money and keeps away things I don't want on my hair or skin.


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## Vintageliving

Made my fourth batch of this today.  Went through my last batch of shampoo quickly, as I liked it so much.

Last batch was EVOO 95% and Castor 5%.  Added 1/2 t. vegetable glycerin and 1/2 t. EVOO, and a bit of distilled water to the cooled batch.

This time I used 6 ounces of soap and 36 ounces of water.  Used ultra low heat and cooked it for several hours.  It thickened wonderfully when it cooled.  Same EVOO-Castor bars as last time, but they were harder, so took longer to melt.

I so like having this recipe!

Batch of dishwashing soap that had baking soda in it which turned to very dense paste, got rebatched.  It turned to the consistency of old-fashioned waterless hand cleaner.  I'm going to turn it into gardner's hand scrub or something.

Anyone else experimenting with this recipe?


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## MagiaDellaLuna

Hiya VL
I have found that the type of shavings used (recipe of original soap) has an effect on the outcome of the "liquid" soap without a doubt.
While I was visiting my daughter in Ireland I grated up a bar of Milk, Silk and Honey whipped soap to use. Cooked it just long enough on low heat for the soap to melt. Once again I ended up with a mousse type result, so it seems that is the result I will get with this type of soap regardless of how long I cook it. The milk (powder) in the soap is the only ingredient which is different to my other whipped soap which produces a completely different result.

This is so versatile and I love it. The trick is to experiment with different base soaps and record the end result of each type, then use that for the purpose to which it is best suited. The mousse makes the best shampoo for me and is the most economical to use.


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## MagiaDellaLuna

Deb said:
			
		

> Have any of you ladies tried conditioner only? YOu cover your hair/scalp with conditioner, leave it to soak 10 minutes or so..I used to conditioner up get in, clean myself off, stand for a few minutes and then rinse.
> 
> It feels lovely adn silky and clean to me then...at first i couldn't imagine how it worked and then i read the ingredient list.



I tried this yesterday and cannot believe how good (and clean) my hair feels. I think I will alternate this method with a proper shampoo'ing in future as I have very dry hair and scalp.


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## Deb

chiming in late here...

I have one batch on the stove (covered) with pectin busy 'cooking', and I have one batch melted into the water (pine tar) that I'll do tomorrow evening, depending on how this batch turns out. I'm hoping for a nice gel like soap for in pump bottles. 

I'll let you know how the pine tar and this batch turned out - both are blended soaps (coconut, pine tar, lard, castor,stearic acid/coconut, PKO, lard, castor/stearic acid) and both are basically scraps from cleaning up the bars I just unmolded and what was in the pot after 24 hours.


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## Vintageliving

MDL, interesting about the milk powder and mousse consistency.

Deb, am looking forward to read your reports, esp. on the pine tar.

Yes, the recipe of the soap and how long it has cured make such differences.

Made a 100% lard batch yesterday and will try it for various household chores.


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## Deb

well on the orange batch...

the oxides floated to the top. So there was an orange layer, with whiteish soap under neath. It was ...very gelatinous. I've tried pumping it out f a pump bottle, and it won't move. I spooned some into a tub to take to work to use in the bathroom there, and i'll stick a stick blender in it this evening (the rest) to see if I can get it to loosen up a bit.


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## Deb

And some more results...

a good beating loosened it up enough it can be pumped in the bottle and mixed in the oxides. (they were in grapeseed oil and glycerine btw) 

The pine tar set nicely, needed another beating but loosened up and then (I"m sorry) looked like old snot. 

It did however, form a lovely if a bit slimy cream - not very bubbly but its not very cured yet, so I"ll see how it develops. Its in tubs. I'm wondering if I need to add a preservative?

on the plus side, I used it for shaving, my entire body and oh yeah, the hair. (pine tar, not the orange ) 

It's still drying, but it feels very soft so far (teh fringe is dry. The rest not yet). 

More later.


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## Vintageliving

Deb. thanks for your reports.

How much do you superfat your pine tar soap?

I add glycerin and extra oil to my shampoo.  I'm planning to liquify the pine tar bars soon.  Mine are lard, EVOO, and 20% pine tar, at 5% SF.


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## Deb

5% superfat, and 20% of the total is pine tar. 

And annoyingly, each and every jar has reset with the pectin. 

Maybe agar-agar or gelatine? or more liquids, although in that case i'd be wanting to ad a germicide.


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## Vintageliving

I'm sorry they're setting up firm.  I tried a lard batch recently and it set up firm as well. I can use it, but not for what I had hoped.

My olive-castor bars stay liquid.  I have used 89% olive and 11% castor at 5% SF.  Also, 95% EVOO - 5% castor, 7% SF.  Both soap bars work well.  I cook them very slowly for 3 - 4 hours.

Am wondering if less pectin would make a difference.

I may try the pine tar.  Mine is 20% pine tar and 5% SF.


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## MagiaDellaLuna

Vintageliving said:
			
		

> I'm sorry they're setting up firm.  I tried a lard batch recently and it set up firm as well. I can use it, but not for what I had hoped.
> 
> My olive-castor bars stay liquid.  I have used 89% olive and 11% castor at 5% SF.  Also, 95% EVOO - 5% castor, 7% SF.  Both soap bars work well.  I cook them very slowly for 3 - 4 hours.
> 
> Am wondering if less pectin would make a difference.
> 
> I may try the pine tar.  Mine is 20% pine tar and 5% SF.



I make a batch with plain whipped soap (no milk powder or fragrances) and thickened that with Xanthan gum instead of pectin. The result is a gel type soap which can be squeezed out of a dispenser quite easily. It feels marginally slimy but works extremely well as a hand wash with a little added Jojoba and Lavender EO.

The base soap definitely has an impact on the result. I made some CP soap which was very high in Castor (sticky bar) and also used PKO instead of CO. Now this one was "thickened" with double the amount of Xanthan gum but it has remained extremely liquid and clear. Who would have guessed ?

This is a lot of fun


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## Vintageliving

My last batch of lard soap solidified, even though I didn't add any baking soda to it.  This newer batch is good for washing dishes, so nothing lost.

MDL, I'm glad you've had such good success with the xanthan gum.  I'll give it a try.

Do you use the same amount as you would pectin powder?


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## MagiaDellaLuna

Vintageliving said:
			
		

> My last batch of lard soap solidified, even though I didn't add any baking soda to it.  This newer batch is good for washing dishes, so nothing lost.
> 
> MDL, I'm glad you've had such good success with the xanthan gum.  I'll give it a try.
> 
> Do you use the same amount as you would pectin powder?



VL I used
170 g soap
1000 g water
5 ml (1 teaspoon) Xanthan Gum.

Melt the soap in the water over high heat, then sprinkle the gum over the surface and stir in with a wire whisk until it starts to thicken. Take off the heat and leave for about 12 hours.

It will become quite solid and gelatinous, but will break up when you beat it with a wire whisk after which it can be poured into bottles through a funnel.

It tends to return to the gelatinous state after standing, but is easily broken up with a good shake and there is no separation. It can also be thinned out a bit with the addition of a little cold water which incorporates into the gel and also does not separate out. Very strange, but fun.


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## Vintageliving

MDL, thanks very much!  I'm going to use your method for my next batch.  Will post a report about what happens.


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## Soap-Goddess

I gave this method a try this afternoon. It was unbelievably easy! I used shreds from my mixed shreds bucket so it was a combo of different soaps (milk, silk & various oils/butters). 

The result was very similar to MDL's first batch with the milk and/or silk particulates floating on top. So I added some mango FO and a bit of AKO and gave it a quick buzz with the SB. 

I ended up with a light tan colored, creamy looking soap with an awesome silky lather. It rinses clean and is not as drying as some natural liquid soaps I've used. I'd still like for it to be a bit more moisturizing though (I may have cooked it a bit too long). I'm thinking of adding a bit of botanical extract (in glycerin). And maybe a tiny bit of mango butter. 

Anyway than you so much Sun for sharing this fun recipe


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## monica123

would this method ith pectin work for pumpable shave cream?


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## cwarren

Thanks for all the Information !!! I'm gona make some soap just to use in shampoo...


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## johnsonlisa

Thanks so much for sharing this.  I tried it tonight for the first time and felt like it left a drag on my hands.  Any ideas how to get this?  It just didn't feel like it rinsed clean.

Lisa Johnson


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## johnsonlisa

Thanks so much for sharing this.  I tried it tonight for the first time and felt like it left a drag on my hands.  Any ideas how to get this?  It just didn't feel like it rinsed clean.

Lisa Johnson


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## MagiaDellaLuna

johnsonlisa said:
			
		

> Thanks so much for sharing this.  I tried it tonight for the first time and felt like it left a drag on my hands.  Any ideas how to get this?  It just didn't feel like it rinsed clean.
> 
> Lisa Johnson



I suspect that it is in fact too cleansing, resulting in a lack of slip on your skin. Try adding a bit of Jojoba to it.


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## tespring

I am so glad someone got this thread going.  I was looking to make some liquid soap too and have my Potassium and all but when ever I looked at the directions...I was overwhelmed.  lol  I will give this a try though as soon as I can get some pectin.  Whoo hoo!  New experiment!


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## johnsonlisa

I did add about 1/2 oz of vit e oil (not jojoba) but I only made the half batch.  Will try it again with the full batch and jojoba.

Is everyone just using a sauce pan to melt the soap or a double boiler (which I don't have)?  I notice that a great deal of the soap mixture was stuck to the bottom of the pan throughout the cook and I had to keep scraping the bottom.  I wasn't sure if that was "normal"?

Lisa


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## MagiaDellaLuna

johnsonlisa said:
			
		

> I did add about 1/2 oz of vit e oil (not jojoba) but I only made the half batch.  Will try it again with the full batch and jojoba.
> 
> Is everyone just using a sauce pan to melt the soap or a double boiler (which I don't have)?  I notice that a great deal of the soap mixture was stuck to the bottom of the pan throughout the cook and I had to keep scraping the bottom.  I wasn't sure if that was "normal"?
> 
> Lisa



I am not sure how CP or HP shreds behave, Lisa. I use shreds of whipped soap and those always float on top of the water. I use a normal saucepan. 
I have noticed though that when I use shreds which have colourant in them the colourant sinks to the bottom of the pan after the soap has melted into the water.

If you have a scale which can measure in grams try
170 grams soap shreds
1000 grams water

and once the soap has melted add 1 tsp pectin.

I use a wire whisk to stir the mixture as it creates the least amount of suds.

ETA.......I add the Jojoba after the soap has cooled completely.


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## johnsonlisa

Success!  I found success thanks to you all by using 170 g soap shreds, 1000 g water and 1/2 tbl pectin.  I cook for an hours, skim the top for bubbles and sludge, and whisk a bit.  The result is the texture of condensed milk.  My only issue is that it turns a honey brown color.  Has anyone else had this issue with non-colored soap.  Is there any way to lighten it up?  

Lisa Johnson
p.s.  I am using a bastille I made last week with 85% OO, 10% CO and 5% castor.


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## shonnyisley

This is a pretty neat idea but I do make 100% EVOO liuqid soap using the traditional HP liquid soaping metod. It is not slimy at all, you just have to dilute the heck out of it. It is acutally one of my best sellers for eczema and sensentive skin.


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## dubnica

Thanks for digging out this thread...I will try to make liquid soap following these instructions.


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## krissy

i just decided to try another batch of this because i need shampoo for dd. i ended up using 27 oz of soap and am making a HUGE pot of this.


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## Vintageliving

I am still enjoying this recipe and continue to use it for my shampoo and dish soap.  It's nice to see the thread is still going.


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## paillo

i tried the pectin method using a 5-oz bar of shredded cp soap, 25 oz of water, and a little less than a teaspoon of  SureGell pectin. cooked it on low in crockpot for a couple of hours and bottled. lather is nice, but it's still way too thin, and still separating a bit.

tried again with another batch, more pectin, and yet another batch using most of a small box of no-cook pectin. still no results that are viscous enough to really be useful. hhhhhhmmmmm, what am i doing wrong? or is this just expected to be thinner than a 'normal' dish soap or shampoo?


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## Vintageliving

Paillo, I'm sorry it didn't work well.  What were the ingredients in your soap?  What brand of pectin did you use?

It seems we are all getting different results with this recipe.  Mine has never separated.  It turns to a congealed mass with lard soap, and with the olive or olive and castor, it works perfectly and makes a lovely shampoo.


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## paillo

Vintageliving said:
			
		

> Paillo, I'm sorry it didn't work well.  What were the ingredients in your soap?  What brand of pectin did you use?
> 
> It seems we are all getting different results with this recipe.  Mine has never separated.  It turns to a congealed mass with lard soap, and with the olive or olive and castor, it works perfectly and makes a lovely shampoo.



i used the SureGel pectin, the tried-and-true brand that's been around for decades. earlier tried a house brand, but gave up on that, it didn't do anything 

the soap is pretty standard, OO, CO, Crisco, sweet almond, castor, shea butter plus botanicals etc...

i'm eager to get to the shampoo experiments, but for right now i have lots of sort-of-usable dish and laundry soap


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## Vintageliving

Paillo, I wish I knew something to recommend.  Some have used xanthan (aka xanthum) gum for thickener with success.  Hopefully, someone who has used this method with a similar soap recipe to yours will see this thread and post some help.


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## paillo

Vintageliving said:
			
		

> Paillo, I wish I knew something to recommend.  Some have used xanthan (aka xanthum) gum for thickener with success.  Hopefully, someone who has used this method with a similar soap recipe to yours will see this thread and post some help.



oh, right, i forgot about the xanthan gum, will try that, thank you vintage!!!


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## Vintageliving

Paillo, all the best to you.  Will you post the results?  I make the same things all the time and so haven't had anything new to post about this recipe.

Thanks.


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## Mayren

okay.. I am confused and request clarification pretty please:

MDL uses Cream Soap that was originally made with both NaOH and KOH?
So that of course will turn out to be great liquid soap since regular liquid soap is done with potassium hydroxide.

@ VL- Regarding The grated soap you start with: Is it CP, HP or 
Whipped Soap using NaOH & KOH?

Has anyone used CP or HP soap made with Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH)
with this Pectin Liquid Soap method with success?


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## Vintageliving

Mayren, I use CP, and nothing whipped.  My soaps are olive, olive/castor, or lard.

The original posts of the thread are all regarding soaps made with sodium hydroxide.  I haven't followed the entire life of this thread, so can only report that the lard soap I make, at 0% Superfatting, made by the pectin method, makes a dish soap, that works, even though it turns to a firm-ish, gelatinous mass.

The olive and olive/castor thicken somewhat, and make a very good, liquid shampoo for my personal needs.  I use varying percentages of superfatting in those, and all have come out fine.

I use 1/2 teaspoon pectin with 5 ounces, by weight, of soap, and circa 30 ounces of water.  For my needs, the water amount does not need to be exact.

I found MagiaDellaLuna's posts very helpful, and earlier in the thread, I went through all of her posts to help with how to have success with this method.  I used the Advanced Search function to read her posts.

Hope this helps a bit.  The thread has gotten rather complicated to read in its entirety.


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## Mayren

Thank you.  
I have read a ton of the threads and this one and 
the ones from other forums on the same topic that
were generously shared with i think you and others.


If I can get it to work it'd be a treat.


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## MagiaDellaLuna

Mayren said:
			
		

> okay.. I am confused and request clarification pretty please:
> 
> MDL uses Cream Soap that was originally made with both NaOH and KOH?
> So that of course will turn out to be great liquid soap since regular liquid soap is done with potassium hydroxide.



Hi Mayren
I use Whipped Soap, not Cream Soap. Whipped soap is made with only NaOH and does not contain KOH so it results in solid bars.

The soap has a high percentage of hard oils (80%) and is whipped rather than stick blended. You can read up on the process here
http://nizzymoulds.com/Whipped/index.htm


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## vuladams

This thread inspires me to experiment with pectin. Thanks everyone for your posts!


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## herackonchiasa

The pectin technique most definitely works.


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