# Blue or coloured EO experience, please



## JoeyJ (Jun 13, 2020)

I need some advice regarding the use of coloured essential oils and their properties in cold/hot process soap. 
I am wanting to use Australian Blue Cypress Essential Oil in my next lot of soaps. Can anyone share any experience of using this oil or or other coloured essential oils, please? 

Does the Blue colour fade or change, and any advice on if this should be added after emulsion or earlier? Its an expensive oil, so I want to avoid spoiling it.


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## Mobjack Bay (Jun 13, 2020)

From Wikipedia, the pigment is *chamazulene* (see the very last paragraph, here), which is in the family of azulene compounds. I searched around a little for information on pigment stability at high temperature and high pH, but didn’t turn up anything useful. Hopefully someone has tried it and knows the answer!


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## szaza (Jun 15, 2020)

Wauwsers, that's a very blue EO! Really cool 

I only have experience with orange/yellow/brown/tan discoloration from essential oils, which seems to be relatively predictable. The resulting soap generally turns out a bit lighter than the pure EO. 
I wouldn't be surprised if you could get a (pale) blue soap out of your fancy blue cypress EO. I think I remember reading about someone who used blue chamomile EO to make blue soap, but I can't remember the details.

According to my experience with blood Orange, the color may or may not fade when the scent fades (once it did, once it didn't and I don't know why), Fortunately, woody EO's generally stick pretty well, so I wouldn't be too worried about short term fading (fir and cedar stick for +-1 year in my soaps)

Hope this helps a bit.. sorry I don't have any real experience with your EO.


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## Mobjack Bay (Jun 15, 2020)

If I’m remembering correctly from my web search, blue chamomile has the same blue color pigment as blue cypress.


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## szaza (Jun 15, 2020)

I think this is where I read about blue chamomile in soap. It just says to add a few drops at trace. Unfortunately there are no pictures of the resulting color.. 
I looked a bit further and found brambleberry shows a picture of what thei blue chamomile EO looks like in cp soap. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



I'm wondering if the base soap could have been a bit yellowish.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 15, 2020)

I can't answer your question about the blue color, but I have to ask -- Have you really thought about the advisability of using an expensive EO in a wash-off product? We get this question a fair bit about the advisability and efficacy of using expensive EOs such as rose otto and sandalwood in soap. Your cypress EO falls in that category.

Even if you assume the EO stays perfectly intact through saponification (and there is no research to indicate this happens) and assuming the EO can survive survive the alkalinity of soap even if you add the EO after saponification (again, zero research on this), this fact remains: it's going to be washed off in seconds. The likelihood of it being efficacious for the person using the soap is very small.

Why not consider using it in a leave-on product instead?

And the idea of adding ingredients at trace to "preserve" them is a nice idea, but it's also a myth. A lot of the lye is still active at trace.


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## szaza (Jun 15, 2020)

I absolutely agree that EO's in soap shouldn't be expected to have any health benefits. 
I don't know the reason OP wants to use this specific EO in soap, but the question 'is it worth it?' is definitely worth asking.
Once in a while I do use expensive EO's in soap. Sometimes just to spoil myself, but more often because I bought it for the diffuser I never use and don't want it to go to waste or if it was a present from a friend and I don't know what else to use EO for except soap making.


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## Marsi (Jun 15, 2020)

the patent holder makes soap with the EO
it looks grey
no idea how much oil they used









						Sensitive Soap - Kakadu Blue | Australian Blue Cypress
					

KAKADU BLUE Sensitive Soap What is it used for? Fantastic nourishing Bar brightens and soothes skin Fantastic shaving bar All skin types All rounder  Ingredients: Coconut oil, olive oil, sweet almond oil, caster oil, shea, coco butter and Australian Blue Cypress.




					kakadublue.com.au


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## JoeyJ (Jun 15, 2020)

Thanks people! I really appreciate all your comments and points of view. The scent is as fancy as the blue, and I would be doing very small batches. I agree that any major health benefits of this essential oil will mostly be washing off, but the scent and colour are what I am mostly intrigued by! What drives me the most is that I am changing to use less synthetic fragrances, and this is a very strong scent, but refreshing like pine/eucalyptus/menthol/cedar. 


Marsi said:


> it looks grey



 and and grey is what I was trying to avoid, Thanks heaps Marsi. Good to see another Aussie on here! Just wondering...do you happen to have seen their soap? I cant say it looks all that stunning by the pictures on their webpage. 
Indigo has a tendency to go grey and it starts out a beautiful deep blue colour, so I guess I was trying to avoid that happening here.


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## Marsi (Jun 15, 2020)

Hi Joey!

I have only seen the picture,and had the same thought as you their other soap is even paler, not a hint of blue or grey so maybe their CP soap doesnt have much essential oil the scent sounds amazing. I hope you get the blue to come through


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## JoeyJ (Jun 20, 2020)

Have started a batch of @Zany_in_CO 's no slime castile and followed the directions to premix the EO with White Clay and Castor to "fix" the scent. The blue immediately went, and the clay oil mixture turned a dirty grey. 


50 drops Blue Cypress Oil to 1 teaspoon clay and 10gms of castor

I figured that if I am using natural scents and colourants for this, I could easily add ultramarine to bring back the blue. 
(Now I understand that ultramarine is produced in a lab, but having done my research am happy to forgo the heavy metals that come with purely natural ultramarine!)

Second observation is that the scent has stayed, and it is a delicious woody fresh scent...(and my headache has gone...)

I will update this in an hour or two when I have some more pics.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 20, 2020)

JoeyJ said:


> I figured that if I am using natural scents and colourants for this, I could easily add ultramarine to bring back the blue.


Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember that ultramarines give off the odor of rotten eggs. 

It's been ages since I used *Crayola Crayons* to color soap. You might want to try using *Cerulean Blue* Crayola. It makes the most gorgeous blue soap! You can find it in the box of 24.
*Use Rate: 1" PPO

Label Ingredients: Paraffin wax, stearic acid and powder color pigment.*
Each of those ingredients is GRAS (Generally Regarded As Safe) and they are found in any number of B & B products.

Just a thought. As it happens I've just been thinking about making blue soap lately.


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## Obsidian (Jun 20, 2020)

My blue ultramarine definitely does not smell like rotten eggs.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 20, 2020)

Obsidian said:


> My blue ultramarine definitely does not smell like rotten eggs.


*@Obsidian* Thanks! Good to know! Is yours from Brambleberry?
Right after I posted, I found this on line:


> *Smells Horrible* (Review)
> (Answer) Our *Ultramarine* Blue Pigment is a natural *ultramarine* which *can* definitely have a sulfur *smell*. We've found that when used in a scented *soap* the *smell* is easily covered.
> *Ultramarine Blue Pigment | Bramble Berry*
> Ultramarine Blue Pigment | BrambleBerry


So, that raises the question, _*"a natural ultramarine"*_ as opposed to what? Synthetic?


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## Obsidian (Jun 20, 2020)

I got mine from the local soap supply shop, they won't disclose who they use for supplies. I don't think its BB though.


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## szaza (Jun 20, 2020)

Ultramarine blue used to be made from lapis lazuli, but I think most of it now is nature identical from a lab (at least that's what I found when I read up on ultramarines)
@Zany_in_CO you seem to imply that adding crayons to soap is a natural way to color soap. Powdered pigments can be many different things and though some are considered natural, many aren't. According to wikipedia the pigment Cerulean blue was discovered in 1789 by the Swiss chemist Albrecht Höpfner. Chances are the pigment in your blue crayon aren't from any kind of natural or even nature identical origin. As far as I'm aware, paraffin wax also isn't considered natural by most soapmakers. 
I'm not saying you shouldn't use crayons in your soap, I think it's a fun idea. I just don't think there's any basis for calling it a natural way to color soap if that's indeed what you were implying.

Lastly, @JoeyJ what kind of white clay are you using? Bentonite is the one that's often cited as a fixative. I can't easily get it where I am and I've tried (green) kaolin instead which didn't help to fixate my EO's at all. Just to say.. not all clay is equal


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 20, 2020)

szaza said:


> @Zany_in_CO you seem to imply that adding crayons to soap is a natural way to color soap.


Listing the label ingredients is for adding the information to your soap label. Thanks for sharing your research.


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## JoeyJ (Jun 21, 2020)

szaza said:


> what kind of white clay are you using


White Australian Clay. 



Zany_in_CO said:


> As it happens I've just been thinking about making blue soap lately.


@Zany_in_CO ...are you feeling a little blue? 


 A little blue is great on a smurf!
2020 was like that...even the like button was shut up in a small blue cell


...


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 21, 2020)

PRECIOUS!


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## Megan (Jun 22, 2020)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember that ultramarines give off the odor of rotten eggs.
> 
> It's been ages since I used *Crayola Crayons* to color soap. You might want to try using *Cerulean Blue* Crayola. It makes the most gorgeous blue soap! You can find it in the box of 24.
> *Use Rate: 1" PPO
> ...



Ultramarine can smell like rotten eggs when it reacts with acidic compounds (like citric acid)... so it can't go in bath bombs and such...unless you want a stink bomb that is!


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## JoeyJ (Jun 29, 2020)

Well, my ultramarine blue was mixered by my junior apprentice into other mixering stuff. 
 I had very carefully dehydrated (only took a week!) and powdered some watermelon, and was steeping it in castor oil...
To  that was added half of the powder I had left, and  the remaining powder in the jar smelt very strongly of blue cypress oil...
The day before he'd appeared with the blue cypress saying he was shaving, and I was wondering what the blue was on his chin, but was rushing to another engagement...
Next day, I discovered it all
My fault anyway, my "young shaver" had destroyed my 'hard won' watermelon experiment, and I was left wondering what method to use to get back some blue!

Some of the very deep blue was mixed with water, so I put the lye into that ... it absolutely stunk, and went clear...

The rest of the blue I could salvage went in the soap...but it just went a dirty grey-blue, and a few pieces of powdered watermelon got in with it as well. 

The bar was way overscented, and the pieces of watermelon crumb went brown...

So when I can associate blue cypress oil with a more pleasurable result...I'll post the results!!


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## szaza (Jun 29, 2020)

Oh no, that's too bad.. I'm sorry you didn't get blue soap even with the addition of ultramarine.


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## Vicki C (Dec 3, 2020)

szaza said:


> Ultramarine blue used to be made from lapis lazuli, but I think most of it now is nature identical from a lab (at least that's what I found when I read up on ultramarines)
> @Zany_in_CO you seem to imply that adding crayons to soap is a natural way to color soap. Powdered pigments can be many different things and though some are considered natural, many aren't. According to wikipedia the pigment Cerulean blue was discovered in 1789 by the Swiss chemist Albrecht Höpfner. Chances are the pigment in your blue crayon aren't from any kind of natural or even nature identical origin. As far as I'm aware, paraffin wax also isn't considered natural by most soapmakers.
> I'm not saying you shouldn't use crayons in your soap, I think it's a fun idea. I just don't think there's any basis for calling it a natural way to color soap if that's indeed what you were implying.
> 
> Lastly, @JoeyJ what kind of white clay are you using? Bentonite is the one that's often cited as a fixative. I can't easily get it where I am and I've tried (green) kaolin instead which didn't help to fixate my EO's at all. Just to say.. not all clay is equal


I haven’t tried using crayons as colorants but this thread got me wondering if there are paraffin free crayons, and there are - both soy based and beeswax based. Might be fun to experiment with some of these. 7 Best Non-Toxic Crayons That Won’t Harm Your Toddler - Raising Them


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## Zany_in_CO (Dec 4, 2020)

Vicki C said:


> I haven’t tried using crayons as colorants but this thread got me wondering if there are paraffin free crayons, and there are - both soy based and beeswax based. Might be fun to experiment with some of these. 7 Best Non-Toxic Crayons That Won’t Harm Your Toddler - Raising Them


Hi Vicki, This is an old thread. Look at the date above your avatar and then at the date of the previous post. This thread is about using an essential oil to color soap blue. You make a good point but I think you would get more responses if you post it on the thread where we discuss crayons as colorants.  Here's the link:

*Crayolas to color CP/HP soap*
*https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/crayolas-to-color-cp-hp-soap.74017/*


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## Vicki C (Dec 4, 2020)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Hi Vicki, This is an old thread. Look at the date above your avatar and then at the date of the previous post. This thread is about using an essential oil to color soap blue. You make a good point but I think you would get more responses if you post it on the thread where we discuss crayons as colorants.  Here's the link:
> 
> *Crayolas to color CP/HP soap*
> *https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/crayolas-to-color-cp-hp-soap.74017/*


Ha, thank you! Me, wandering in the wilderness.


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## Zany_in_CO (Dec 5, 2020)

Just ran across this while searching for something else. The description says they can be infused in oil, but doesn't mention whether it can make soap blue. Curious. 

*BLUE CORNFLOWER PETALS*


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## earlene (Dec 5, 2020)

It will color yarn and cotton, but I don't know about soap.  My guess is the lye would be too alkaline for the color to to survive, even though Bachelor Buttons/Cornflowers like an alkaline soil to grow.


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## marehare (Dec 10, 2020)

szaza said:


> Wauwsers, that's a very blue EO! Really cool
> 
> I only have experience with orange/yellow/brown/tan discoloration from essential oils, which seems to be relatively predictable. The resulting soap generally turns out a bit lighter than the pure EO.
> I wouldn't be surprised if you could get a (pale) blue soap out of your fancy blue cypress EO. I think I remember reading about someone who used blue chamomile EO to make blue soap, but I can't remember the details.
> ...


You can add orris root powder to your soap and it fixes the scent of your EO so it doesn't fade. My pink grapefruit soap I made last year still smells as fresh as it did when I made it and normally citrus scents are the first to lose their scents. Add it to your EO before you heat it and then to add to your oils/lye mixture.


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## szaza (Dec 11, 2020)

marehare said:


> You can add orris root powder to your soap and it fixes the scent of your EO so it doesn't fade. My pink grapefruit soap I made last year still smells as fresh as it did when I made it and normally citrus scents are the first to lose their scents. Add it to your EO before you heat it and then to add to your oils/lye mixture.


Thanks for the tip! I'll keep it in mind if I want to experiment with fixatives again


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