# Hard and Soft Oils Ratio



## bluebirdwing (Mar 11, 2021)

So, my stick blender arrived and I am onto my second batch of CP. I have read the soaping oils should have atleast 40% of hard oils. Since I am from tropical region, almost all oils are in liquid form, except butters. I found the soapcalc little confusing. Can anyone help me choose oils for the soap? I can list most common and easily available oils in my city.

Coconut oil
Palm oil
Sunflower oil
Soybean oil
Peanut oil
Sesame oil
Ricebran oil
Mustard oil
Olive oil
Castor oil
Cocoa butter
Shea butter


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## dibbles (Mar 11, 2021)

From your list, coconut oil, palm oil, cocoa butter and shea butter are hard fats


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## bluebirdwing (Mar 11, 2021)

Thank you @dibbles.


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## bluebirdwing (Mar 12, 2021)

So, I made the second batch yesterday. Melted stearic acid and cocoa butter together, mixed in other oils. Added the lye water and mixed with spatula. Felt it getting thicker, added the FO and it become curdled. Tried to mix it together with stick blender and it become like churros dough. .

Then I remembered I didnt add any color. So, mixed some mica color in alocohol and added to the dough like batter and tried to mix it in. Scooped it into the mould somehow. By the time the soap in the bottom of the pot was hard, still pliable, so, I scraped them and molded to small balls, hoping to use them as embeds in my next CP attempt.

The recipe I used is the following:
Cocoa Butter 52 g (5%)
Coconut Oil 260 g (25%)
Olive Oil pomace 260 g (25%)
Palm Oil 416 g (40%)
Castor Oil 52 g (5%)
Stearic acid 20 g

Water 295 g
Lye 147 g

Fragrance - 73 g

Pink Mica color


I dont know whether its Stearic acid or the FO made the dough like reaction. I am attaching pics.




This is just after filled the mould and sprayed with alcohol.





This is after 12 hrs, it was still pretty warm.

I was able to unmould after 16 hrs, they came out clean. The soap was firm, but the top portion was bit crumbly.



I was able to slice them easily. Do I have to spray the slices with alcohol to prevent soda ash?


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## Tara_H (Mar 12, 2021)

I can't speak to the recipe itself since I'm still getting the hang of these things myself, but I don't think you mentioned anywhere what the FO was that you used? I expect that info will help with troubleshooting.


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## bluebirdwing (Mar 12, 2021)

Tara_H said:


> I can't speak to the recipe itself since I'm still getting the hang of these things myself, but I don't think you mentioned anywhere what the FO was that you used? I expect that info will help with troubleshooting.


Since the FO is a local brand, I didnt thought it will help anyone here to identify the issue. Its named Berry Blossom and nothing about acceleration or discoloration mentioned in the bottle. I have used it before in M&P, this is the first time in CP.


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## Soapy_suds (Mar 12, 2021)

I am 99% sure its the olive oil. Which brand did you use? I would say try single oil soaps first if you are new to soap making. that ways you understand each oil. Try really small batches.


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## GemstonePony (Mar 12, 2021)

Alcohol causes acceleration/seizing, and if the FO was for M&P, it wouldn't list it's effects on CP. I'm honestly surprised you got your colorants mixed in as well as you did.
Literally every ingredient in your soap increased acceleration, so I would be extremely proud that your soap turned out as well at did. Congratulations on your first batch!


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## Zing (Mar 12, 2021)

Very pretty.  Why did you mix your mica with alcohol?  I dump my micas right into the batter.  For oxides and other colorants, I add mica to a tablespoon of a light oil (like sweet almond), stir, and then add to the batter.
I successfully avoid soda ash -- after pouring in the mold, I spray with alcohol, cover with plastic wrap, then cardboard (and towels to gel).  
The next day, I unmold and slice, and I do not spray again with alcohol.
Congratulations!


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## earlene (Mar 12, 2021)

Mixing colorants with alcohol is good for when you are doing mica painting (painting color on finished soap), and I think some people do it with MP soap because it will evaporate out.  But it is not common to add alcohol to colorants being added HP or CP (lye) soap because alcohol heats up the batter.  

For HP or CP soap making, pre-mixing colorants in oil or glycerin or even water (depends on which colorants you are using, which medium you choose), is more common. Some do add the dry powder directly into the soap batter; some don't like that method.


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## dibbles (Mar 12, 2021)

Stearic acid is a huge accelerator as well. As Gemstone Pony mentioned, all of the fats you used can cause acceleration, but the stearic acid stick out the most to me. The 'blossom' part of the FO name might also give a bit of a clue to an accelerating FO. Not all, but many florals can cause acceleration.

Others have already given good advice to mix your mica with oil, glycerin or even water. You only need a tiny bit - just enough to get the mica pourable. You can add it dry. I don't because I usually don't want to do more mixing with a stick blender to incorporate it at that point.


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## amd (Mar 12, 2021)

dibbles said:


> Stearic acid is a huge accelerator as well.


I don't think it affected the soap in this case - looking at measurements given


bluebirdwing said:


> Castor Oil 52 g (5%)
> Stearic acid 20 g


If 52g is 5%, then stearic acid is roughly 2.5%. At this amount it's very workable in cold process. I can't remember off the top of my head, but when I did my stearic acid experiments, I think I had to go quite a ways up - I think in the 10% range - before I experienced any kind of acceleration.

My suspicion is that the FO is not made for CP, that's why the batter thickened (as it should when stickblending), and then curdled when adding the FO. Given that the FO has a floral name, well, florals are also notorious for being finicky in CP. I don't see anything that would concern me with the recipe.


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## AliOop (Mar 12, 2021)

I agree with @GemstonePony. Each one of your ingredients has the ability to speed up a CP soap batter, even before you added an FO designed for M&P, and then alcohol.

And although the amounts of each oil on its own would not make a soap batter accelerate, you literally had no slow-moving ingredients (regular OO, lard) to balance them out. The FO and alcohol probably just put it over the top.

M&P is very different from CP because the first has no active lye, and the second one is filled with active lye.  That's part of why the fragrances and colors used for one often don't work for the other. 

The good news is that your soap is still very pretty! And I'm sure it will be a very nice soap to use after it cures, too.


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## Mobjack Bay (Mar 12, 2021)

Congratulations on your pretty pink soap!

I noticed that the stearic acid you listed seems to be over and above the 100% you gave for the other oils and butters.  When I put your numbers through the SMF calculator, I get the same lye and water amounts as you did for the recipe without the stearic, using a 33.3% lye concentration and 5% superfat.  With the stearic and that amount of lye, the superfat goes up to about 7%.

I agree that this recipe is likely to be a mover. I’ve made recipes with 40% palm a few times and they moved very fast, even without anything else added that would cause acceleration.  One way to slow the recipe down would be to try regular olive oil or high oleic sunflower oil instead of OO pomace, or slow it down even more by dropping the stearic out, or dropping the palm by 5% and replacing it with more of the liquid oil.  The soap won’t last quite as long, but the difference hardly noticeable if you give the soap a good 4-6 weeks to cure.


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## bluebirdwing (Mar 13, 2021)

Soapy_suds said:


> I am 99% sure its the olive oil. Which brand did you use? I would say try single oil soaps first if you are new to soap making. that ways you understand each oil. Try really small batches.


I used the same olive oil for a baby soap and it took a long time to get trace, and olive oil was 70% in it. The brand is Del Monte.


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## bluebirdwing (Mar 13, 2021)

GemstonePony said:


> Alcohol causes acceleration/seizing, and if the FO was for M&P, it wouldn't list it's effects on CP. I'm honestly surprised you got your colorants mixed in as well as you did.
> Literally every ingredient in your soap increased acceleration, so I would be extremely proud that your soap turned out as well at did. Congratulations on your first batch!


Alcohol is added after the seizing & acceleration, actually just before putting in the mould, I fogot to add color and thought adding more oil or water will make it worse, so, mixed the mica color in a tsp of alcohol and mixed in the batter. Its good to know that Alcohol is an accelerant too. I am too surprised about the color, didnt know it got mixed in well, I was kind of expecting white swirls when I cut the soap. Hadmade soap is not a well established thing in our country, so, we cannot get anything specified for CP and M&P. Everything is kind of same for both. Thank you @GemstonePony 




Zing said:


> Very pretty. Why did you mix your mica with alcohol? I dump my micas right into the batter. For oxides and other colorants, I add mica to a tablespoon of a light oil (like sweet almond), stir, and then add to the batter.
> I successfully avoid soda ash -- after pouring in the mold, I spray with alcohol, cover with plastic wrap, then cardboard (and towels to gel).
> The next day, I unmold and slice, and I do not spray again with alcohol.
> Congratulations!


Thank you @Zing . When the last time I used mica color I just dumped in the batter, I got small granules of color sedimented in the finished soap, and the mica color bottle it was mentioned to mix in with alcohol for easy dispersal. Also, I was in a kind of panic mode, I thought oil or water will make the batter worse . I do follow all other step you mentioned after pouring to mould, sprayed alcohol, covered with plastic wrap, towel and all.




earlene said:


> Mixing colorants with alcohol is good for when you are doing mica painting (painting color on finished soap), and I think some people do it with MP soap because it will evaporate out. But it is not common to add alcohol to colorants being added HP or CP (lye) soap because alcohol heats up the batter.
> 
> For HP or CP soap making, pre-mixing colorants in oil or glycerin or even water (depends on which colorants you are using, which medium you choose), is more common. Some do add the dry powder directly into the soap batter; some don't like that method.


Ok, good to know that alcohol can heat up the batter, that explains why my soap was still hot even after 12 hrs. Thank you @earlene 




dibbles said:


> The 'blossom' part of the FO name might also give a bit of a clue to an accelerating FO. Not all, but many florals can cause acceleration.


Its really helpful tip, since none of the FO's here comes with any description or warning, there will be only Fragrance name sticked to the bottle. Thank you @dibbles


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## bluebirdwing (Mar 13, 2021)

amd said:


> If 52g is 5%, then stearic acid is roughly 2.5%. At this amount it's very workable in cold process. I can't remember off the top of my head, but when I did my stearic acid experiments, I think I had to go quite a ways up - I think in the 10% range - before I experienced any kind of acceleration.
> 
> My suspicion is that the FO is not made for CP, that's why the batter thickened (as it should when stickblending), and then curdled when adding the FO. Given that the FO has a floral name, well, florals are also notorious for being finicky in CP. I don't see anything that would concern me with the recipe.


I used 2% Stearic acid. I cannot find any FO's thats specifically made for CP here. And batter got thick as soon as I mixed lye with spatula, and curdled after added FO. Ok, got it, floral FO's accelerate too. Thank you @amd 




AliOop said:


> I agree with @GemstonePony. Each one of your ingredients has the ability to speed up a CP soap batter, even before you added an FO designed for M&P, and then alcohol.
> 
> And although the amounts of each oil on its own would not make a soap batter accelerate, you literally had no slow-moving ingredients (regular OO, lard) to balance them out. The FO and alcohol probably just put it over the top.
> 
> ...


Ok, I dont know what is regular OO, the common OO we get are EVOO, Pomace and Extra Light, apart from Pomace all others are expensive, and Lard is not available. So, the list I mentioned in the first post, does it have any slow moving oils? Thank you @AliOop




Mobjack Bay said:


> Congratulations on your pretty pink soap!
> 
> I noticed that the stearic acid you listed seems to be over and above the 100% you gave for the other oils and butters. When I put your numbers through the SMF calculator, I get the same lye and water amounts as you did for the recipe without the stearic, using a 33.3% lye concentration and 5% superfat. With the stearic and that amount of lye, the superfat goes up to about 7%.
> 
> I agree that this recipe is likely to be a mover. I’ve made recipes with 40% palm a few times and they moved very fast, even without anything else added that would cause acceleration. One way to slow the recipe down would be to try regular olive oil or high oleic sunflower oil instead of OO pomace, or slow it down even more by dropping the stearic out, or dropping the palm by 5% and replacing it with more of the liquid oil. The soap won’t last quite as long, but the difference hardly noticeable if you give the soap a good 4-6 weeks to cure.


Thank you @Mobjack Bay. Oh, I didnt know, I should have to include the additives to the total oils, something new to learn. Do superfat have anything to do with pH. I checked the pH of this soap and it was only 8, where as my first CP was a 10, before curing. If my soap is now 8 and after curing, will it drop further down?


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## bluebirdwing (Mar 13, 2021)

Thank you all for all the advice . So, summarising......

I need to add a slow moving oil in the recipe. 

All/most of the floral FO's can be accelerating, so, do a test. 

Alcohol is another accelerant, also it heat up the soap batter. So, mixing mica colors with oil/water/glycerine is better than mixing with alcohol.

Additives should be included along with total oil content to calculate the lye amount. 

Some oils acts as slow moving when alone, but, can be fast moving when combined with other oils.


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## Kasuda (Mar 13, 2021)

bluebirdwing said:


> So, I made the second batch yesterday. Melted stearic acid and cocoa butter together, mixed in other oils. Added the lye water and mixed with spatula. Felt it getting thicker, added the FO and it become curdled. Tried to mix it together with stick blender and it become like churros dough. .
> 
> Then I remembered I didnt add any color. So, mixed some mica color in alocohol and added to the dough like batter and tried to mix it in. Scooped it into the mould somehow. By the time the soap in the bottom of the pot was hard, still pliable, so, I scraped them and molded to small balls, hoping to use them as embeds in my next CP attempt.
> 
> ...


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## Soapy_suds (Mar 13, 2021)

I used Disano pomace olive oil. It was a castile soap. My oil traced very fast. I had heard that olive oil is very slow moving, so it was very unexpected for me. Did you use virgin or extea virgin OO?


bluebirdwing said:


> I used the same olive oil for a baby soap and it took a long time to get trace, and olive oil was 70% in it. The brand is Del Monte.


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## bluebirdwing (Mar 13, 2021)

Kasuda said:


> What made u add stearic acid to the recipe.?was it because you wanted hard sosp?  I am new to Soaping ,just two batch old and not very happy with the results .


My first batch was really hard to take out from mould, I heard stearic acid will help with it, also, it will make the soap more long lasting in shower.


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## bluebirdwing (Mar 13, 2021)

Soapy_suds said:


> I used Disano pomace olive oil. It was a castile soap. My oil traced very fast. I had heard that olive oil is very slow moving, so it was very unexpected for me. Did you use virgin or extea virgin OO?


I used Pomace Olive Oil, EVOO or VOO are way too expensive to use in soap. Others told me ordinary olive oil is slow moving, may be its VOO, I dont know. Other slow moving they mentioned is lard, that we cant get here right?


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## GemstonePony (Mar 13, 2021)

Light Olive oil might behave better than Pomace, but no guarantees.
From your list, Rice Bran oil would probably be best for slowing the recipe down without increasing rancidity.
Sunflower would be ok, as long as it was High-Oleic. But if it doesn't specify, I would assume it is the Linoleic variety which might increase risk of rancidity if used over 15%, and Soybean and Sesame might also increase risk of rancidity if used at over 15% as well. With Peanut oil you might be ok with 20%.


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## Mobjack Bay (Mar 13, 2021)

@bluebirdwing Stearic acid is a ”free” form of one of the fatty acids found in the triglyceride fats we use in soap making. It reacts quickly because it is not bound up in a triglyceride molecule. So, yes, you need to include it in the lye calculation. It’s not hard to do because you can select it from the fat choices in the lye calculators.  Whether or not you include other additives in the calculation depends on the additive. For example, sugar does not saponify and does not react in a way that affects how much lye is needed.  On the other hand, citric acid (added as a chelator and/or in citrus juices) and vinegar (hardens the soap) do not saponify, but they react with lye and must be accounted for in the lye calculation.  So, step 1 is to select the additive if it is listed in the “oils, fats and waxes”  list and then step 2 is to check and account for any other additives that may react with the lye. Some of the calculators will make the adjustments for citric acid and vinegar, but I recommend that you do some research/reading here on the forum at at the *Soapy Stuff* website in advance so you understand the reactions and basis for the lye adjustments. 

As for the effect of superfat on pH, I don’t know the answer.


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## Kasuda (Mar 13, 2021)

Soapy_suds said:


> I used Disano pomace olive oil. It was a castile soap. My oil traced very fast. I had heard that olive oil is very slow moving, so it was very unexpected for me. Did you use virgin or extea virgin OO?


Pomace olive oil traces very fast ...


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## Mobjack Bay (Mar 13, 2021)

This article from the Soapy Stuff website tells you how to figure out if an oil is “high oleic”.




__





						High oleic, mid oleic, and regular oil | Soapy Stuff
					

Classic Bells restores antique sleigh bells and manufactures bell home decor. Wholesale. Retail.




					classicbells.com


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## Soapy_suds (Mar 13, 2021)

bluebirdwing said:


> I used Pomace Olive Oil, EVOO or VOO are way too expensive to use in soap. Others told me ordinary olive oil is slow moving, may be its VOO, I dont know. Other slow moving they mentioned is lard, that we cant get here right?


Lard is pig fat. I don't work with animal fats. Many indian consumers would not want it in their soap. So its not widely available.


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## dibbles (Mar 13, 2021)

Light olive oil would be what I think @AliOop is calling regular olive oil. Pomace accelerates for me so I don't use it and I agree, EVOO is too expensive for use in soap. I have used olive oil that was labeled light (as in light tasting) and had no problems.


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## bluebirdwing (Mar 13, 2021)

Soapy_suds said:


> Lard is pig fat. I don't work with animal fats. Many indian consumers would not want it in their soap. So its not widely available.


I know, I am from India too.


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## bluebirdwing (Mar 13, 2021)

GemstonePony said:


> Light Olive oil might behave better than Pomace, but no guarantees.
> From your list, Rice Bran oil would probably be best for slowing the recipe down without increasing rancidity.
> Sunflower would be ok, as long as it was High-Oleic. But if it doesn't specify, I would assume it is the Linoleic variety which might increase risk of rancidity if used over 15%, and Soybean and Sesame might also increase risk of rancidity if used at over 15% as well. With Peanut oil you might be ok with 20%.


Ok, Thank you @GemstonePony , I think I will replace some of the Pomace with Rice Bran oil.



Mobjack Bay said:


> @bluebirdwing Stearic acid is a ”free” form of one of the fatty acids found in the triglyceride fats we use in soap making. It reacts quickly because it is not bound up in a triglyceride molecule. So, yes, you need to include it in the lye calculation. It’s not hard to do because you can select it from the fat choices in the lye calculators. Whether or not you include other additives in the calculation depends on the additive. For example, sugar does not saponify and does not react in a way that affects how much lye is needed. On the other hand, citric acid (added as a chelator and/or in citrus juices) and vinegar (hardens the soap) do not saponify, but they react with lye and must be accounted for in the lye calculation. So, step 1 is to select the additive if it is listed in the “oils, fats and waxes” list and then step 2 is to check and account for any other additives that may react with the lye. Some of the calculators will make the adjustments for citric acid and vinegar, but I recommend that you do some research/reading here on the forum at at the *Soapy Stuff* website in advance so you understand the reactions and basis for the lye adjustments.
> 
> As for the effect of superfat on pH, I don’t know the answer.
> 
> ...


Thank you @Mobjack Bay for the detailed explanation, I will check out the article too.



dibbles said:


> Light olive oil would be what I think @AliOop is calling regular olive oil. Pomace accelerates for me so I don't use it and I agree, EVOO is too expensive for use in soap. I have used olive oil that was labeled light (as in light tasting) and had no problems.


Ok, Thank you @dibbles


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## Peachy Clean Soap (Mar 13, 2021)

@bluebirdwing The info below is related to oils & what each will bring to your soap.  You can find an in-depth comprehension list of oils & its properties @nuturesgardencandles.com. 


Soap is made by the chemical reaction that occurs when mixing fatty acids, lye (NaOH for bar soap, KOH for liquid soap), and water. Lye acts as the chemical emulsifier that bonds fatty acids with water molecules by generating heat. This process is called saponification. Soap cannot be made without lye.
Each soaping oil/butter has its own fatty acid composition, and these fatty acids provide finished soap with important characteristics. The following are the most common fatty acids found in soaping oils/butters along with the qualities they provide in a finished bar of soap.
Lauric Acid: Provides hardness, cleansing, and bubbly lather. Linoleic Acid: Provides conditioning
Myristic Acid: Provides hardness, cleansing, and bubbly lather. Oleic Acid: Provides conditioning.
Palmitic Acid: Provides hardness and a creamy lather.
Ricinoleic Acid: Provides conditioning, bubbly lather, and a creamy lather.
Stearic Acid: Provides hardness and a creamy lather.
Each soaping oil/butter has a unique saponification value (the number of milligrams of lye required to saponify 1 gram of the specified oil/butter).
In order to create a quality bar of soap, it is necessary to find a balance between hardness, cleansing, conditioning, bubbly lather, and creamy lather. This usually involves using a combination of oils/butters in your soap recipe. A typical bar soap recipe calls for 38% water content, and a 5% superfat (the percentage of oils that do not saponifiy).


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## TheGecko (Mar 13, 2021)

bluebirdwing said:


> I have read the soaping oils should have at least 40% of hard oils.



I disagree. You can make a quality bar of soap with just Soft Oils, you would just need to let them cure longer.

Be that as it may, the "Holy Trinity" (or most basic recipe) is an equal amount of Olive, Palm and Coconut Oils (34% Soft, 66% Hard).  My first recipe was around 41% Olive, 27% each Palm and Coconut, and 5% Castor.  I then played around with a bunch of different oils and butters and finally came up with 35% Olive, 20% each Palm and Coconut, and 5% Castor Oils and 10% each Cocoa and Shea Butters.  You have all of these available and are welcomed to give it a try.


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## earlene (Mar 14, 2021)

bluebirdwing said:


> So, my stick blender arrived and I am onto my second batch of CP. I have read the soaping oils should have atleast 40% of hard oils. Since I am from tropical region, almost all oils are in liquid form, except butters. I found the soapcalc little confusing. Can anyone help me choose oils for the soap? I can list most common and easily available oils in my city.
> 
> Coconut oil
> Palm oil
> ...





bluebirdwing said:


> I used the same olive oil for a baby soap and it took a long time to get trace, and olive oil was 70% in it. The brand is Del Monte.





bluebirdwing said:


> Pomace



I do not know, but assume that since your SB (stick blender) just arrived prior to the first post in this thread, that the soaps made prior to the pink soap was not made using the SB, and that would include the baby soap you mentioned that you made with 70% Del Monte pomace OO.  Is that correct?  Did you make it all by hand stirring?  

In one post you said you did not know what regular OO is.  I use the term 'regular' olive oil when I mean anything other than pomace olive oil because all the other olive oils are more alike than pomace.  I am not familiar with Del Monte brand pomace olive oil (I am familiar with the brand Del Monte, but have never seen or used pomace with that brand name on it), so cannot address your experience with their pomace olive oil.  But I have used pomace olive oil often (usually with an Italian brand name) and always it has been extremely fast to trace, in so much as I avoid using a stick blender at all because it traces so fast.  Although I have read of one or two other soapmakers who also said their experience with pomace is that it doesn't trace quickly, most soapmakers whose post I have read, do have the experience that it traces fast.  So I would wonder at the quality of your pomace olive oil.  Still, your experience is your experience, and if it came from the same bottle as the oil you made the baby oil from (or even the same brand), I would not expect the oil to act any differently.

Anyway, I did want to address some of the oils you mentioned.  I may have missed it, but I didn't notice anyone mentioning a couple of them.
*
Soybean oil* has a shorter shelf life and can go rancid sooner than some of the other oils you listed, so many soapmakers discourage its use in soap, or recommend only a small percentage of the formula be soy oil. HOWEVER, soy wax (a soy product) is an alternative to hard oils that has a much longer shelf life, and when used in soap is often used at higher proportions. Of course, you don't list it, so probably can't use it. I made a single oil soap using soy bean oil, which developed DOS rather quickly (went rancid and smelled awful). In small amounts (low percentages) in soap, it didn't cause problems, but since I don't cook with soy oil, I did not see any reason to keep a bottle of this oil around just so I could use a little bit of it to make soap, especially since it has such a short shelf life and other oils brought more to the soap.

*Mustard oil* - I would not use this in soap, although I never have tried it; I expect it is expensive and has better uses.

*Sesame oil* - nice natural fragrance (in my opinion), lends darkness to the soap when used in a soap, more costly (in the US) than most commonly used soaping oils.  I prefer it for cooking.  I did once make a single oil soap with it but it's not a great oil for soapmaking; it works, but it doesn't bring anything to the soap that makes it worth the extra cost.  
*
Peanut oil* - another short shelf life oil that I don't like in soap.  I did use it in tooth soap, because it was suggested it improves the taste of soap used for brushing the teeth.  I don't know if that was true or not, as I never made it without including peanut oil.  Anyway, I don't cook with peanut oil either, so did not like having a bottle hanging around to go rancid while I waited to use a little bit of it in soap.  

I do and have used all the other oils you list, and recommend you try them all in different formulas to determine which you prefer to work with and to come to know which formula you prefer.  

As far as fragrances, if you can look up the ones you already have on hand, and find information about them on the manufacturer's website, that might give you a better idea of if they are appropriate to use in lye soap.  Fragrances sold for use in Melt & Pour soap are not often appropriate for use in Lye soap, because they are not made to withstand the chemical processes that happens when we mix oils and lye to create soap.  MP soap doesn't go through that process after we get it and start melting it down, so it's not a concern.  

Also, even in fragrances that are appropriate to use in lye soap, some groups or types tend to cause more acceleration of lye soap. For example: floral fragrances, and spicy fragrances tend to quicken trace, or cause ricing, or acceleration, and even seizing. Alcohol can cause seizing as well, so adding alcoholic beverages to soap requires special precautions. There are methods to deal with these situations when they happen, so I'll include a link for future reference: How to Work with Misbehaving Fragrances | BrambleBerry


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## Rsapienza (Mar 14, 2021)

Soapy_suds said:


> I used Disano pomace olive oil. It was a castile soap. My oil traced very fast. I had heard that olive oil is very slow moving, so it was very unexpected for me. Did you use virgin or extea virgin OO?


Pomace is known to trace fast. Regular OO does not.


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## bluebirdwing (Mar 15, 2021)

earlene said:


> I do not know, but assume that since your SB (stick blender) just arrived prior to the first post in this thread, that the soaps made prior to the pink soap was not made using the SB, and that would include the baby soap you mentioned that you made with 70% Del Monte pomace OO.  Is that correct?  Did you make it all by hand stirring?


For both batch, I hand stirred. For baby soap(70% Pomace), I used a whisk and mixed till I got a thin trace. For Pink soap(25% Pomace), I mixed with a spatula and it went to medium trace under a min, so, I added the FO, it curdled. After that I used the stick blender to blend it back together and it become like a dough. 



earlene said:


> In one post you said you did not know what regular OO is.  I use the term 'regular' olive oil when I mean anything other than pomace olive oil because all the other olive oils are more alike than pomace.  I am not familiar with Del Monte brand pomace olive oil (I am familiar with the brand Del Monte, but have never seen or used pomace with that brand name on it), so cannot address your experience with their pomace olive oil.  But I have used pomace olive oil often (usually with an Italian brand name) and always it has been extremely fast to trace, in so much as I avoid using a stick blender at all because it traces so fast.  Although I have read of one or two other soapmakers who also said their experience with pomace is that it doesn't trace quickly, most soapmakers whose post I have read, do have the experience that it traces fast.  So I would wonder at the quality of your pomace olive oil.  Still, your experience is your experience, and if it came from the same bottle as the oil you made the baby oil from (or even the same brand), I would not expect the oil to act any differently.


Its the same Pomace I used for baby soap, same bottle. Only difference is pink soap have coconut oil & palm oil, also stearic acid.




earlene said:


> Anyway, I did want to address some of the oils you mentioned.  I may have missed it, but I didn't notice anyone mentioning a couple of them.
> 
> *Soybean oil* has a shorter shelf life and can go rancid sooner than some of the other oils you listed, so many soapmakers discourage its use in soap, or recommend only a small percentage of the formula be soy oil. HOWEVER, soy wax (a soy product) is an alternative to hard oils that has a much longer shelf life, and when used in soap is often used at higher proportions. Of course, you don't list it, so probably can't use it. I made a single oil soap using soy bean oil, which developed DOS rather quickly (went rancid and smelled awful). In small amounts (low percentages) in soap, it didn't cause problems, but since I don't cook with soy oil, I did not see any reason to keep a bottle of this oil around just so I could use a little bit of it to make soap, especially since it has such a short shelf life and other oils brought more to the soap.
> 
> ...


Ok, Thank you very much @earlene


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