# Are butters effective in soap?



## Nyknits (Jul 27, 2019)

Good morning from Long Island, NY! Hey everybody, I have taken the advice given and limited myself to simple soap recipes and one soaping process. I started with hot process at the end of  May (I waited for the Mercury retrograde to be over) and have 4 batches under my belt.  I’ve been handing out samples to friends and family to test. I think I’m going to be overwhelmed with soap curing all over the place. Lol I’m ready to invest in this craft and will be researching  this weekend. I thought I would throw this out here too. Is there a big difference between a silicone lined wood mold and just a silicone mold? Which do you prefer? What do you think about adding butters like shea and mango? Should I bother since it’s being rinsed off? Save it for after bath use? I have family with eczema and psoriasis. My original goal was making simple, fragrance free for them. However, I am now liking this too much and want to try making all the soaps. All tips are appreciated.


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## IrishLass (Jul 27, 2019)

Silicone is a great material for soap molds, but in my experience (if we are talking about log and slab molds as opposed to individual-type molds), I've found that it's not sturdy enough to stand on its own without bowing out to some extent when filled with soap, which is where having a wooden support box comes in super handy. I have 3 silicone log molds that thankfully came with support to keep the sides from bowing outward. 

RE: butters. Whether to add ingredients such as butters or not really all comes down to personal preference. True- in the end, it all rinses off, but you'll have to do some experimenting to see for yourself if they add anything worthwhile enough to your formulas to include them. Some butters, such as shea for example, contain a high  amount of unsaponifiables, which many feel lends a really nice touch to their finished soap that's very tangible to them.....but for others it might not be so noticeable. Much depends on individual skin types, which are all different. You'll just have to experiment to see what works for you and yours, which is one of the great things about making your own soap- you can tailor it to each person.

One sure thing about butters where soap is concerned, is that if nothing else, they are great for adding that extra bit of hardness to ones soap formula. My own formulas normally contain a bit of either cocoa butter, mango butter, kokum butter and/or illipe butter to bump up my hardess level without having to resort to using straight stearic acid which is very tricky to soap with in CP.  

And of course, butters are great for lotions and body butters. My favorite butter for use in anhydrous (waterless) body butters is kokum butter, mixed with meadowfoam seed oil at a 75:25 ratio. And my favorite butter for use in emulsified butters (made with water e-wax to create a really thick lotion) is shea butter.


IrishLass


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## Nyknits (Jul 27, 2019)

IrishLass said:


> Silicone is a great material for soap molds, but in my experience (if we are talking about log and slab molds as opposed to individual-type molds), I've found that it's not sturdy enough to stand on its own without bowing out to some extent when filled with soap, which is where having a wooden support box comes in super handy. I have 3 silicone log molds that thankfully came with support to keep the sides from bowing outward.
> 
> RE: butters. Whether to add ingredients such as butters or not really all comes down to personal preference. True- in the end, it all rinses off, but you'll have to do some experimenting to see for yourself if they add anything worthwhile enough to your formulas to include them. Some butters, such as shea for example, contain a high  amount of unsaponifiables, which many feel lends a really nice touch to their finished soap that's very tangible to them.....but for others it might not be so noticeable. Much depends on individual skin types, which are all different. You'll just have to experiment to see what works for you and yours, which is one of the great things about making your own soap- you can tailor it to each person.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your great input. Chockfull of information to digest. I’m ready to buy a mold and some other goodies.


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## Marilyn Norgart (Jul 27, 2019)

I have only made one soap with cocoa butter in it--it was one of my first soaps--so its about a year old.  I didn't like it when I made it and just tried it again last week and still don't like it.  I don't even remember what recipe I used but it feels slimy and doesn't really lather.  I am sure I did something wrong but what ever it was--it was enough so that I don't want to try it again


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## runnerchicki (Jul 27, 2019)

I am a relatively new soaper - I've been doing CP for just over a year - so I'm not an expert.  But, in my year of experimenting I have found that I personally like just a little bit of butter in my recipe. It adds a nice, creamy feel to the lather, but too much and I had problems with accelerated trace (EVERY TIME!), decreased lather, etc. So you will have to experiment to see how you like it and how much to use. I am only now, after many trials, at the final tweaks of my recipe and all along the way I was reducing the butters. The absolute max I use now is 10% of any given butter, and if it is something really hard like Kokum butter, I will drop it down lower. My recipe is hard, low on the cleansing number, lathers decently, and doesn't get goopy in the shower. It really took a lot of test recipes to realize that I didn't need a whole lot of expensive butter in the recipe to get a nice bar.

I have silicone molds, and wood molds with liners (all small batch sizes). I use both, but a silicone mold on its own is going to need support if it is filled all the way, and it will not retain heat as much as a wood mold. So I usually have to leave the silicone mold batches in the mold an extra day or two in order to get them out without damaging the soap because I can't peel them back as well as with the wood molds w/liners.

Also - if you are concerned about Mercury in Retrograde during your experimentations - you might want to wait a few more days. It's happening again right now from July 8th to August 1st.  I, myself, am blaming it on my poor effort at a hanger swirl this morning.


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## cedarstar (Jul 27, 2019)

I make most of my soaps with either cocoa butter or shea butter. I have been told they make your skin feel feel soft. Yesterday I had an older woman come to my table to purchase a bar of soap, that had previously taken a sample tell me that it's the best soap she's ever used. I like what the butters add to my final product with my combination of oils


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## DKing (Jul 27, 2019)

I make a goat milk soap that has shea butter which I absolutely love.  I make others that do not have shea, and they are still very nice soaps as well....but the shea adds a bit of a luxurious feel to it.


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## Dawni (Jul 28, 2019)

I'm one who uses cocoa and shea butters to harden my soaps. Cocoa is harder. I have used only Shea in some, together with lard, and I like what it adds, compared to lard being the only hardener. I do cure it them longer than the others though, for better lather, especially if I'm using a lot of the butters.


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## darby (Jul 28, 2019)

I find that butters decrease my lather.


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## Obsidian (Jul 28, 2019)

Everyone has there own preferences when it come to certain oils. I myself, do not like butters, especially cocoa.

A little shea is ok but I find it doesn't really add to the soap but at least it doesn't decrease the qualities I like.

I've heard some butters like shea, can cause reactions with eczema so you might run that by your doctor.

If you do want to try a butter. Make a 1 lb batch with 10% and see how it is.

I spent around $2000 my first year soaping just on oils, trying to find a perfect recipe. I finally stopped using luxury ingredients and was able to perfect my recipe with grocery store ingredients.


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## cmzaha (Jul 28, 2019)

I make a 57% Shea Butter soap that is long aged, mainly for a facial bar and selling /label appeal. I will say after a year it lathers very nice but really does not feel much different from my lard/tallow or palm based soaps.


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## Nyknits (Jul 28, 2019)

Thank you for all your input. I have a lot of  things to try. Another question, I just made a batch of bastille with a recipe from soaping 101. What do you do with all your experiments? I’ve been been keeping one aside from each batch to see what it’s like in 3,6,9 months. I, of course use some and I give away a lot. And I’m only making  1lb batches! I’m liking this a bit too much and I want to keep at it. Should I store them in the basement? A closet? Designate a dresser drawer?


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## Obsidian (Jul 28, 2019)

You know @cmzaha, I never did tell you how much I like your lard/tallow recipe. Its one of my favorite soaps.
If tallow wasn't so dang messy to render, I would use it in all my soaps.

@Nyknits I store my cured soap in paper bags in the closet. I know others store in boxes under a bed.
A basement would be ideal provided its not a damp dirt floor basement like mine.
The soap should be stored cool with some air flow so no plastic bins.


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## Nyknits (Jul 28, 2019)

Obsidian said:


> You know @cmzaha, I never did tell you how much I like your lard/tallow recipe. Its one of my favorite soaps.
> If tallow wasn't so dang messy to render, I would use it in all my soaps.
> 
> @Nyknits I store my cured soap in paper bags in the closet. I know others store in boxes under a bed.
> ...


Thank you. I’ll try the basement for now. I have a small house and don’t want to be overrun with soap everywhere.


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## Obsidian (Jul 28, 2019)

Nyknits said:


> Thank you. I’ll try the basement for now. I have a small house and don’t want to be overrun with soap everywhere.



Good luck!


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## cmzaha (Jul 28, 2019)

Thankyou Obsidian. I love tallow in soap as we know


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## Mobjack Bay (Jul 28, 2019)

I’m a relative newbie, too (and I grew up in Smithtown ).  I’m 6 months and about 30 batches into soap making and have tried all kinds of recipes (but, sadly, not tallow).  I haven’t been wowed by butters in soap, especially given their price, but I’m still experimenting with them.  Based on everything I read here, and much to my surprise, I decided to try lard soap pretty early on.  It makes a dense, creamy lather, that I really like, but I have no idea how it would be for those with eczema and psoriasis.  I do love the butters for the lotions and creams I make.   

Do you have soap in every room yet? If not, you still have capacity 

As for molds, I have 2 small wood molds with silicone liners and find them super easy to use.  I just bought a smaller stand alone silicone mold for test batches and found that the perimeter bows out a little.  Compared with the silicone liners, I thought it was easier to “pop” the loaf out of the stand alone mold.  When I buy my next, slightly larger mold, it will be a lined wood mold because I don’t want to deal with trying to support a larger stand alone silicone mold.


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## KiwiMoose (Jul 29, 2019)

Mobjack Bay said:


> Do you have soap in every room yet? If not, you still have capacity





I use 10% Shea in every batch. I started out with a bit more than that, because it was my only 'hardener' alongside coconut (which is hard but doesn't last long).  I have also tried cocoa butter and liked it, but it is just too expensive for me to keep including it. Bearing in mind that I'm palm free and animal fat free in my soap my options are limited.  I eventually went with 20% soy wax as my main 'hardener' and still use 10% Shea butter and 20% coconut oil - then the rest is made up of my soft oils.


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## Nyknits (Jul 29, 2019)

Mobjack Bay said:


> I’m a relative newbie, too (and I grew up in Smithtown ).  I’m 6 months and about 30 batches into soap making and have tried all kinds of recipes (but, sadly, not tallow).  I haven’t been wowed by butters in soap, especially given their price, but I’m still experimenting with them.  Based on everything I read here, and much to my surprise, I decided to try lard soap pretty early on.  It makes a dense, creamy lather, that I really like, but I have no idea how it would be for those with eczema and psoriasis.  I do love the butters for the lotions and creams I make.
> 
> Do you have soap in every room yet? If not, you still have capacity
> 
> As for molds, I have 2 small wood molds with silicone liners and find them super easy to use.  I just bought a smaller stand alone silicone mold for test batches and found that the perimeter bows out a little.  Compared with the silicone liners, I thought it was easier to “pop” the loaf out of the stand alone mold.  When I buy my next, slightly larger mold, it will be a lined wood mold because I don’t want to deal with trying to support a larger stand alone silicone mold.


Thank you for your input. It’s nice to meet you. I’m from Rocky Point and work in E Setauket. My very first batch was 100% lard with turmeric. I liked it! I’m going to do a bunch of experimenting and I’m definitely getting a wood. Old. Thanks again.


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## Nyknits (Jul 29, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> I use 10% Shea in every batch. I started out with a bit more than that, because it was my only 'hardener' alongside coconut (which is hard but doesn't last long).  I have also tried cocoa butter and liked it, but it is just too expensive for me to keep including it. Bearing in mind that I'm palm free and animal fat free in my soap my options are limited.  I eventually went with 20% soy wax as my main 'hardener' and still use 10% Shea butter and 20% coconut oil - then the rest is made up of my soft oils.


Thank you. Do you make cold or hot process soap?


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## Mobjack Bay (Jul 29, 2019)

Nyknits said:


> Thank you. Do you make cold or hot process soap?


I made a few batches of HP at the beginning but rapidly moved to CP.  The possibilities seem end with CP, but HP has the advantage of being kinder to EOs, which I think is a big plus.  I haven’t given up on the idea of making more HP soap.


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## Mobjack Bay (Jul 29, 2019)

Oops, I answered the question for @KiwiMoose


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## Nyknits (Jul 29, 2019)

Mobjack Bay said:


> I made a few batches of HP at the beginning but rapidly moved to CP.  The possibilities seem end with CP, but HP has the advantage of being kinder to EOs, which I think is a big plus.  I haven’t given up on the idea of making more HP soap.


I’m looking forward to trying cp. I love essential oils, but I’m going to try some fragrance oils too.



Mobjack Bay said:


> Oops, I answered the question for @KiwiMoose


No worries. I’ll take tips from everybody. Lol


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## KiwiMoose (Jul 29, 2019)

CP


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## Rune (Jul 31, 2019)

I have made soaps full of shea butter (I don't know the exact percentage, since it was in a mixed product). The amount of shea butter in my finished soap must have been way over 10%. I will guess around 30% or something. I can't say that it does not lather, since my soap have lathered really, really well. I have used dual lye with around 5% KoH and 95% Naoh, and there is definately no lack of lather. I have used coconut oil also (not sure about the percentage either, since it was in the same product, and sometimes I added a little extra coconut, but the coconut percentage have never been high) and castor oil at around 7-9%.

If butters don't lather, it is very easy to make them lather. So I don't think that should be a big problem, since it can easily be fixed with especially dual lye. You can also use additives like sugar dissolved in the the water before you add lye to boost the bubbles a bit. Or blend a sugar solution into the oils. You can increase the coconut oil and castor oil a bit, if necessary and if wanted. They say castor oil will create a draggy feel to the soap if used in a high percentage. I think that is true, I had one soap with a drag. But, I have found that kaolin clay counteracts that drag and make it work out just beautiful with a higher percentage of castor oil (kaolin clay makes slip, and that will balance out any drag, in my experience. But I'm not an experienced soaper at all, just sayin'. So others, more experienced ones will perhaps have very different experiences).

Are butters needed? Probably not. I think they are a lot about label appeal. I used a mixed product high in shea butter mainly because I had no other hard oils available. Yes, it was exactly that. That was the only thing I could buy in grocery stores other than coconut oil and soft oils. So I felt I had no choice. I'm not sure I would have gone online and order shea butter if I had cheaper alternatives locally, like palm oil or something. I have switched to soy wax, but I can't say anything good or bad about it, since my first soap with it is not cut yet. But it is a cheaper alternative to butters, and many soapers prefer to use it.


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## Nyknits (Jul 31, 2019)

Rune said:


> I have made soaps full of shea butter (I don't know the exact percentage, since it was in a mixed product). The amount of shea butter in my finished soap must have been way over 10%. I will guess around 30% or something. I can't say that it does not lather, since my soap have lathered really, really well. I have used dual lye with around 5% KoH and 95% Naoh, and there is definately no lack of lather. I have used coconut oil also (not sure about the percentage either, since it was in the same product, and sometimes I added a little extra coconut, but the coconut percentage have never been high) and castor oil at around 7-9%.
> 
> If butters don't lather, it is very easy to make them lather. So I don't think that should be a big problem, since it can easily be fixed with especially dual lye. You can also use additives like sugar dissolved in the the water before you add lye to boost the bubbles a bit. Or blend a sugar solution into the oils. You can increase the coconut oil and castor oil a bit, if necessary and if wanted. They say castor oil will create a draggy feel to the soap if used in a high percentage. I think that is true, I had one soap with a drag. But, I have found that kaolin clay counteracts that drag and make it work out just beautiful with a higher percentage of castor oil (kaolin clay makes slip, and that will balance out any drag, in my experience. But I'm not an experienced soaper at all, just sayin'. So others, more experienced ones will perhaps have very different experiences).
> 
> Are butters needed? Probably not. I think they are a lot about label appeal. I used a mixed product high in shea butter mainly because I had no other hard oils available. Yes, it was exactly that. That was the only thing I could buy in grocery stores other than coconut oil and soft oils. So I felt I had no choice. I'm not sure I would have gone online and order shea butter if I had cheaper alternatives locally, like palm oil or something. I have switched to soy wax, but I can't say anything good or bad about it, since my first soap with it is not cut yet. But it is a cheaper alternative to butters, and many soapers prefer to use it.


Thank you. I’m thinking it’s all about how the soap “feels” rather than any real skin benefits. From what all of you have generously shared, it’s a personal thing. I think for my next experiment, I will add a ittle shea butter after the cook. I have tons of it. It’s great for my curly hair. ‍


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## penelopejane (Jul 31, 2019)

Nyknits said:


> Thank you. I’m thinking it’s all about how the soap “feels” rather than any real skin benefits. From what all of you have generously shared, it’s a personal thing. I think for my next experiment, I will add a ittle shea butter after the cook. I have tons of it. It’s great for my curly hair. ‍


I think it is more than how soap “feels” I think there are skin benefits from using Shea butter even at only 10%. I think my skin dries out less and testers agree. Try it and see what you think. I think if you read back there are others who agree (cedar star at least). 

For me Shea butter is one of those ingredients that you can actually detect and notice in soap and I use it in every soap except Castile.

I don’t know about using it in HP - that might alter the benefits completely. I make CP soap.


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## Nyknits (Aug 1, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> I think it is more than how soap “feels” I think there are skin benefits from using Shea butter even at only 10%. I think my skin dries out less and testers agree. Try it and see what you think. I think if you read back there are others who agree (cedar star at least).
> 
> For me Shea butter is one of those ingredients that you can actually detect and notice in soap and I use it in every soap except Castile.
> 
> I don’t know about using it in HP - that might alter the benefits completely. I make CP soap.


I’m definitely trying it. I am a lover of Shea. I was questioning the effectiveness of it in a rinse off product. If it feels good, that’s great but it’s good for much more than just moisturizing. Thank you for your input. I will try a little in this weekend’s batch.


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## penelopejane (Aug 1, 2019)

I’m one of those people who believe anything you put on your skin penetrates to some degree and makes a difference even if it is wash off.  Go for it. I think you’ll like Shea butter in soap.


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## Kathymzr (Aug 7, 2019)

I’m a newbie too. I spend a lot of time with the lye calculator and my notes, figuring out new recipes and learning how different oils interact. I’ve not limited myself to cheaper oils. But I don’t sell. I’m coming up with some standard combos that my F&F like. Coconut oil is a basic. The butters are beloved, but I too am using lesser amounts now. The challenge is finding a balance of cleansing & conditioning. So working with the lye calculator lets you see what combos will do or not do. You can add things like sugar, sodium lactate, dairy, or aloe to tweek the other numbers in the final product. My biggest issues now are techniques, timing, and making soap that looks and smells nice—it comes down to that in the end. Easier said than done. Haha!


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## Nyknits (Aug 7, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> I’m one of those people who believe anything you put on your skin penetrates to some degree and makes a difference even if it is wash off.  Go for it. I think you’ll like Shea butter in soap.


Good thinking. I’m making a goat milk and honey soap today and will add a little shea. I appreciate your input. Thank you.


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## Nyknits (Aug 7, 2019)

Kathymzr said:


> I’m a newbie too. I spend a lot of time with the lye calculator and my notes, figuring out new recipes and learning how different oils interact. I’ve not limited myself to cheaper oils. But I don’t sell. I’m coming up with some standard combos that my F&F like. Coconut oil is a basic. The butters are beloved, but I too am using lesser amounts now. The challenge is finding a balance of cleansing & conditioning. So working with the lye calculator lets you see what combos will do or not do. You can add things like sugar, sodium lactate, dairy, or aloe to tweek the other numbers in the final product. My biggest issues now are techniques, timing, and making soap that looks and smells nice—it comes down to that in the end. Easier said than done. Haha!


Thank you. I’m trying a little shea after the cook today. Let’s see how I like it.


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## JamesSaldivar (Aug 8, 2019)

Butter comes from a nut grown on the Karite tree which is native to Western Africa. It is mainly sourced and harvested by women-run cooperatives and is used in many health and beauty products. Here at Misty Mountain Soap Co. it is a key ingredient in many of our products including soap, lotion bars, body butters, balms, and scrubs. Almost all of our bar soaps contain pure  butter, along with other natural oils and butters.

Moisturizing
Weather protection
Antioxident rich
Anti-inflammatory
Anti-bacterial
Economic improvement


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## earlene (Aug 8, 2019)

James, I like how you emphasize economic improvement (for the women-run cooperatives) as a benefit of using shea butter.


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## Chris_S (Aug 8, 2019)

Nyknits said:


> Thank you. I’ll try the basement for now. I have a small house and don’t want to be overrun with soap everywhere.



I store my soaps inside the cardboard boxes that my cats wet food pouches come in i get big boxes of them and use the dividers to separate the scents then I put them one my clothes drawers and in the corners of my bedroom mostly because they wont fit under my bed thanks to it being incredibly low!

Edit I use shea butter in all my soaps iv tried cocoa butter but I just prefer shea I only usually use it upto about 10-15%!

@Kathymzr do you use local raw honey?


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## Dahila (Aug 8, 2019)

I have few batches with shea butter and one with cocoa butter (probably 3 years old already) and I do like it, but I never go over 5% ,  it makes the difference,  However my favorite are combination of OO,  Castro Lard and tallow.  No soap is as good as these ones.   Some are already like 5 years old


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## Nyknits (Aug 8, 2019)

JamesSaldivar said:


> Butter comes from a nut grown on the Karite tree which is native to Western Africa. It is mainly sourced and harvested by women-run cooperatives and is used in many health and beauty products. Here at Misty Mountain Soap Co. it is a key ingredient in many of our products including soap, lotion bars, body butters, balms, and scrubs. Almost all of our bar soaps contain pure  butter, along with other natural oils and butters.
> 
> Moisturizing
> Weather protection
> ...


Thank you for this.


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## Deborah Long (Aug 8, 2019)

@Nyknits - Welcome to your new addiction!  lol  I also have family with some horrible allergies and psoriasis and eczema issues.  All of us together have discovered that - in spite of the strong woodsy scent - pine tar soap works amazing wonders!  I have a brother who used it and made sure that was the only thing that he changed and his psorisis totally cleared right up!  I about fell off my chair when he showed me, actually!  If you're interested in pine tar, one of our members has the recipe that I used here - https://classicbells.com/soap/pineTarSoap.asp


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## Dahila (Aug 9, 2019)

Soap does help but I switched from steroid cream, after prednisone for days ,  to my calendula body butter (thick lotion) it clears my eczema like a charm and stops itching immiediately. I grow Calendula in my garden


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## Kari Howie (Aug 9, 2019)

What do y’all think of mango butter versus Shea butter in CP soap?


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## Dahila (Aug 9, 2019)

Mango butter is kind of expensive so I leave it for leave on products.  I like shea and cocoa butter .


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## Kari Howie (Aug 9, 2019)

Dahila said:


> Mango butter is kind of expensive so I leave it for leave on products.  I like shea and cocoa butter .


Good point. Thanks!


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## penelopejane (Aug 10, 2019)

Deborah Long said:


> @Nyknits - Welcome to your new addiction!  lol  I also have family with some horrible allergies and psoriasis and eczema issues.  All of us together have discovered that - in spite of the strong woodsy scent - pine tar soap works amazing wonders!  I have a brother who used it and made sure that was the only thing that he changed and his psorisis totally cleared right up!  I about fell off my chair when he showed me, actually!  If you're interested in pine tar, one of our members has the recipe that I used here - https://classicbells.com/soap/pineTarSoap.asp


What percentage of Pine Tar d0 you use?


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## Dahila (Aug 10, 2019)

soap will not cure, it only help ,  you need something on skin and also changing life style helps a lot


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## Nyknits (Aug 12, 2019)

Deborah Long said:


> @Nyknits - Welcome to your new addiction!  lol  I also have family with some horrible allergies and psoriasis and eczema issues.  All of us together have discovered that - in spite of the strong woodsy scent - pine tar soap works amazing wonders!  I have a brother who used it and made sure that was the only thing that he changed and his psorisis totally cleared right up!  I about fell off my chair when he showed me, actually!  If you're interested in pine tar, one of our members has the recipe that I used here - https://classicbells.com/soap/pineTarSoap.asp


Many , many thanks. I’ll definitely give it a go.


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## Nyknits (Aug 12, 2019)

Kari Howie said:


> What do y’all think of mango butter versus Shea butter in CP soap?


I’ll be following. I have both.


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## Nanette (Aug 12, 2019)

Obsidian said:


> Everyone has there own preferences when it come to certain oils. I myself, do not like butters, especially cocoa.
> 
> A little shea is ok but I find it doesn't really add to the soap but at least it doesn't decrease the qualities I like.
> 
> ...


I like the $2000 your first year...lol...yep.


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