# Pine Tar & Neem Oil CP Recipe



## JonQ (Jan 6, 2019)

I recently made a batch of Pine Tar soap using the following recipe.
60% Olive Oil
20% Coconut Oil
5% Castor Oil
15% Pine Tar
I also added Activated Charcoal and I was very pleased with the results. I would like to make another small batch and introduce Neem Oil. My thought was 10% Pine Tar and 5% Neem Oil or is that too much or too little? I have no experience with Neem Oil. Any thoughts on adding Neem to my recipe?


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## Twinkle (Jan 6, 2019)

I make a 100% neem oil soap and i love it. I dont mind the smell at all, is quite solid and lathers well. As such, i believe you will be fine with any amount you choose to add.


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## Obsidian (Jan 6, 2019)

I'd add at least 10% neem, reducing the OO. I personally use 25% and like it. It does have a very strong smell but it fades a lot during cure.


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## JonQ (Jan 6, 2019)

I really like that suggestion of replacing 25% of the Olive Oil. I love the smell of Neem, so that should work out well.
Thank you!


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## JonQ (Jan 6, 2019)

Twinkle said:


> I make a 100% neem oil soap and i love it. I dont mind the smell at all, is quite solid and lathers well. As such, i believe you will be fine with any amount you choose to add.


Thank you Twinkie, I may try that sometime!


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## DeeAnna (Jan 6, 2019)

Neem soaps fine at higher %. I've done 85% with no trouble, and I think Obsidian has done 100%.

I am a little hesitant to wholeheartedly recommend that much neem in soap, however. Neem, while reasonably safe on the skin, can be toxic if ingested. If a child or pet were to eat a high-neem soap, it could cause real trouble. Neem is awfully bitter, I know, but people and pets sometimes do crazy things.

Up to 20% to 25% is probably a wiser upper limit for neem, IMO. That amount is high enough to be efficacious, but low enough so it's cost effective and relatively safe. Here's a recent discussion: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/using-high-of-neem.72618/ And here's another: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/neem-oil.69716/

I do want to ask why you want to mix all of these active ingredients into one soap? Are you taking "if a little is good, more is better?" approach? I question whether this is wise or necessary, to be honest. If you're dealing with skin problems such as dermatitis, acne, etc., it's possible that mixing "medicines" could be counter productive.


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## JonQ (Jan 6, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Neem soaps fine at higher %. I've done 85% with no trouble, and I think Obsidian has done 100%.
> 
> I am a little hesitant to wholeheartedly recommend that much neem in soap, however. Neem, while reasonably safe on the skin, can be toxic if ingested. If a child or pet were to eat a high-neem soap, it could cause real trouble. Neem is awfully bitter, I know, but people and pets sometimes do crazy things.
> 
> ...


Good point, I will adjust to 20%. I'm using a bar of Pine Tar with Neem now that I purchased from a local artisan soaper and I just love it. I use it all over in the shower including face and scalp.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 6, 2019)

If it is working well for you, that's good to hear! Do you think you're seeing any benefits from the neem + pine tar combination? 

I am using my 85% neem soap and my spouse is using his pine tar soap, but neither of us has skin problems that neem or pine tar are supposed to be good for. He just likes the scent of his pine tar soap -- I make it specially for him. He shares a few bars with his hunting buddies.

As for me and the neem soap ... well, I have 4 bars of 85% neem soap to use up, and I don't want to give or sell it to anyone.  It's actually quite nice now that's it's got, oh, about 8 months of cure, so I truly don't mind using it. It's nicely lathery, physically hard, mild to the skin, and (surprisingly) very mild to the nose.


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## JonQ (Jan 6, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> If it is working well for you, that's good to hear! Do you think you're seeing any benefits from the neem + pine tar combination?
> 
> I am using my 85% neem soap and my spouse is using his pine tar soap, but neither of us has skin problems that neem or pine tar are supposed to be good for. He just likes the scent of his pine tar soap -- I make it specially for him. He shares a few bars with his hunting buddies.
> 
> As for me and the neem soap ... well, I have 4 bars of 85% neem soap to use up, and I don't want to give or sell it to anyone.  It's actually quite nice now that's it's got, oh, about 8 months of cure, so I truly don't mind using it. It's nicely lathery, physically hard, mild to the skin, and (surprisingly) very mild to the nose.


It's difficult to say because I actually use a medicated oil on parts of my scalp and forehead once a week. I'm hoping this could reduce the frequency. If not, I enjoy the earthy tones.


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## amd (Jan 7, 2019)

If you do the neem and pine tar soap... be super ready for acceleration! Neem accelerates trace, as does pine tar... I'm really interested to hear your results back if you do it.


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## JonQ (Jan 8, 2019)

I received my Neem Oil today. I'm somewhat concerned that the consistency is that of jelly and not a smooth oil. Is that normal, does it need to be heated like Coconut and Palm oil?


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## DeeAnna (Jan 9, 2019)

Neem has a lot of palmitic and stearic acids in it, so it's going to act more like unhydrogenated lard or palm than a typical liquid oil (olive, canola, etc.) It's probably going to be liquidy at warm room temps and solid-ish at cool room temps. The pantry where I store my neem is in the mid to lower 60s F this time of year, and my neem is a soft paste -- you might call it a jelly texture. I bring it into my warmer kitchen and it liquefies in a few hours.


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## JonQ (Jan 9, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Neem has a lot of palmitic and stearic acids in it, so it's going to act more like unhydrogenated lard or palm than a typical liquid oil (olive, canola, etc.) It's probably going to be liquidy at warm room temps and solid-ish at cool room temps. The pantry where I store my neem is in the mid to lower 60s F this time of year, and my neem is a soft paste -- you might call it a jelly texture. I bring it into my warmer kitchen and it liquefies in a few hours.


Oh good, I will begin soaping


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## newlife (Jan 23, 2019)

When my neem oil solidifies, I put the container in the sink with warm water. It works really well.


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## laurahatt214 (Jan 27, 2019)

If you do not mind me asking, where do you get your pine tar from?  Thank you!


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## amd (Jan 28, 2019)

Look for places that sell horse supplies. I bought mine locally at Tractor Supply Co in their Equine section.


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## newlife (Jan 30, 2019)

Please make sure to buy PURE pine tar as some are adulterated.  100% pine tar preferably organic is what you want. There are some out there that are compounded and for use on hoofs. You do not want to use this for your soap. Auson is a good one and can be had on Amazon ( at least in the US anyway).  Check the Nerdy Farm Wife site. She has a link to it.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 30, 2019)

I've never, ever seen "organic" pine tar, so I'm curious about this. Auson pine tars are not certified or described as being "organic." Can you recommend a source for pine tar that is?


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## Deborah Long (Jan 31, 2019)

Oh, heck.  So of course I bought Bickmore...  lol  The label says 100% light pine tar.  That leads me to believe there's no additives, right?


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## Meena (Jan 31, 2019)

Deborah Long said:


> Oh, heck.  So of course I bought Bickmore...  lol  The label says 100% light pine tar.  That leads me to believe there's no additives, right?



I hate to say this and to feel this way, but no producers of virtually any products can be trusted, IMO.  I am an inveterate label-reader.  I'm hell at potlucks and such because I won't eat anything that I can't read the label of.

Just took a closer look at mica samples I got tonight before soaping, and one should not be called a mica -- it's 2 chemicals and ALUMINUM!!  "How 'bout a little Alzheimer's with that shower, lady?"


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## DeeAnna (Jan 31, 2019)

The Bickmore will be fine to use, @Deborah Long. Farnam and Su-Per Pine Tar are two other brands of pure pine tar that I've seen for sale in the US. 

It always pays to read the labels, however. If it's not pure pine tar, you might also see ingredients such as "tall oil", turpentine, pitch, or rosin as ingredients in addition to the pine tar.

Auson (Sweden) sells pure pine tar as well as mixtures of pine tar and other ingredients. Dalbrand Tratjara (Dale Burned Wood Tar) #773 and Akta Tratjara (Genuine Wood Tar) #850 are both pure pine tars. I haven't seen the Dale Burned for sale in the US in the past year or so, but I just bought a can of their Akta Tratjara a month or so ago.


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## Deborah Long (Jan 31, 2019)

@DeeAnna  Thanks so much for that!  I bought it because it said online that it was 100% and the others I found had turpentine, etc. in it - I didn't want that, fer sure...
DeeAnna, I trust you so VERY much!  Thanks for all of your helpful advice and reassurance!


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## Marilyn Norgart (Jan 31, 2019)

JonQ said:


> Good point, I will adjust to 20%. I'm using a bar of Pine Tar with Neem now that I purchased from a local artisan soaper and I just love it. I use it all over in the shower including face and scalp.



not trying to be too personal but do you have eczema or psoriasis that you are using it for?  I have psoriasis and would like to try it


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## cmzaha (Feb 1, 2019)

Auson Pine Tar also mentions using it on hooves.
I use Bickmore Pine Tar for mine


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## Marilyn Norgart (Feb 1, 2019)

amd said:


> Look for places that sell horse supplies. I bought mine locally at Tractor Supply Co in their Equine section.



I was going to buy some but it says not to use on humans--do you buy a certain brand?


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## Deborah Long (Feb 1, 2019)

@Marilyn Norgart Both my brother and sister have psoriasis and love it using pine tar soap.  Hence the reason I want to try to make some for them!  They both also like it a little scrubby, so I thought of adding coffee grounds to it...


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## Marilyn Norgart (Feb 1, 2019)

Deborah Long said:


> @Marilyn Norgart Both my brother and sister have psoriasis and love it using pine tar soap.  Hence the reason I want to try to make some for them!  They both also like it a little scrubby, so I thought of adding coffee grounds to it...



yes the exfoliating feels good on my psoriasis.  you could also try some charcoal.  I have a friend who has it too, so I would like to make some for us both!!  have you ever used any neem?  I don't know if it would be a better bar to have both or if the pine tar is enough.  I made a bar that has tea tree oil/peppermint/lavender that felt nice too.  for me it seems that I need to rotate different soaps and shampoos and ointments--otherwise they seem to be not as effective.


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## DeeAnna (Feb 1, 2019)

@Marilyn Norgart ... Using pine tar on humans is an off label use. Makers won't say it's okay for human use because of liability issues and because that would be making unsubstantiated medical claims.  

We soap makers are in a similar boat -- we cannot legitimately claim our soap cures medical problems either, whether it's got pine tar or not.

Any of the brands listed in this thread are used on humans.


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## Marilyn Norgart (Feb 1, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> Auson Pine Tar also mentions using it on hooves.
> I use Bickmore Pine Tar for mine



when I was on the bickmore site it stated that their pine tar is for horse hooves and not for human use, where do you guys find pine tar that is for humans


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## Marilyn Norgart (Feb 1, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> @Marilyn Norgart ... Using pine tar on humans is an off label use. Makers won't say it's okay for human use because of liability issues and because that would be making unsubstantiated medical claims.
> 
> We soap makers are in a similar boat -- we cannot legitimately claim our soap cures medical problems either, whether it's got pine tar or not.



we must have been typing at the same time  .  I was wondering about the off label use, thanks!!  I would never claim that anything I make or buy for that matter will cure psoriasis cuz I know first hand it wont  but things do give some relief of the symptoms


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## DeeAnna (Feb 1, 2019)

Like I  said before ... you won't find pine tar labelled for human use. The FDA categorically does not recognize pine tar as an effective drug for treating human medical issues.

edit -- We were posting over each other, Marilyn. I don't mean to belabor the point!


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## Misschief (Feb 1, 2019)

I have one small (less than a 1" circular patch) of eczema on my arm (just that little spot can drive me insane with the occasional itching) and I've not found that  pine tar salve or pine tar soap have done anything for it. The best result I've had with pine tar was in wetting the sliver of soap and dabbing it directly on the spot and allowing it to dry. 

I've had better results with pure, unrefined shea butter than I have with pine tar or charcoal.


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## Marilyn Norgart (Feb 1, 2019)

Misschief said:


> I have one small (less than a 1" circular patch) of eczema on my arm (just that little spot can drive me insane with the occasional itching) and I've not found that  pine tar salve or pine tar soap have done anything for it. The best result I've had with pine tar was in wetting the sliver of soap and dabbing it directly on the spot and allowing it to dry.
> 
> I've had better results with pure, unrefined shea butter than I have with pine tar or charcoal.



I have had some relief from a tar ointment.  unfortunately what will work for me may not work for someone else--such is psoriasis.  the cream I mix up is shea butter, cocoa butter and 100% aloe vera--it is very moisturizing and as my daughter in law says it feels soft.
I was just saying the charcoal is scrubby too--I have never used it as any type of med, it just kinda helps to loosen the scales a bit


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## amd (Feb 1, 2019)

My mom has psoriasis really bad around her scalp. When we were kids she bought a tar shampoo and that was the only thing that worked for her. I remember one time we went to the only pharmacy in our area that carried it and it was clearanced out. She asked the pharmacist why and was told that the product was being discontinued. She bought every bottle they had and we went home without groceries that day (the shampoo was really expensive, around $20 a bottle in the late 80's). I was in college when she ran out of shampoo. Now I am wondering if adding pine tar to a shampoo bar (clarify: a syndet shampoo bar) would 1) work and 2) help her psoriasis. Hmmm.... I may need to add this to the tinkering list.


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## DeeAnna (Feb 1, 2019)

I think Carolyn (cmzaha) says much the same thing as you, @Marilyn Norgart. Dermatitis, psoriasis, and eczema have so many different causes. A product that works really well for one might be aggravate another person's problem or it might not do a darn thing either way.

I don't have skin troubles like this (although my skin is turning very itchy and ashy from our very dry winter air!), but what I've seen from things people say here is a simple, basic hand made soap is often helpful simply because it has so few ingredients in it, so it is less likely to trigger reactions.

@amd -- We've had a few folks make liquid (KOH) soap that includes pine tar. I suspect you could make a syndet liquid shampoo with PT as well. Shampoo bars ... maybe not so much, because anything more than a smidge of PT is going to make the mixture too "wet" to make a solid, firm bar. It might end up being kinda pasty instead.

edit: Here are a couple PT threads for you --
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/pine-tar-liquid-soap-revisited.58398/
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/syndet-shampoo-bar-with-pine-tar.70312/


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## Marilyn Norgart (Feb 1, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> I think Carolyn (cmzaha) says much the same thing as you, @Marilyn Norgart. Dermatitis, psoriasis, and eczema have so many different causes. A product that works really well for one might be aggravate another person's problem or it might not do a darn thing either way.
> 
> I don't have skin troubles like this (although my skin is turning very itchy and ashy from our very dry winter air!), but what I've seen from things people say here is a simple, basic hand made soap is often helpful simply because it has so few ingredients in it, so it is less likely to trigger reactions.
> 
> @amd -- We've had a few folks make liquid (KOH) soap that includes pine tar. I suspect you could make a syndet liquid shampoo with PT as well. Shampoo bars ... maybe not so much, because anything more than a smidge of PT is going to make the mixture too "wet" to make a solid, firm bar. It might end up being kinda pasty instead.



good to know about the shampoo bar--maybe I should look into the liquid soap for my scalp.
I usually have to rotate cuz what works for me one week may not work the next.  unfortunately we can all lather or slather on anything we can but the main healing needs to come from the inside--and everybody has different triggers for a flare.  I flare from beef and I am thinking sugar and milk cause issues also.  I had eczema when I was a baby and then had psoriasis and eczema till I was in my early 20's and then the eczema disappeared but the psoriasis got worse--the only time it totally went away was when I was pg.  I do consider myself lucky cuz mine isn't too bad but I did develop psoriatic arthritis


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## DeeAnna (Feb 1, 2019)

Oh, dear. You've had your share of troubles!


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## Marilyn Norgart (Feb 1, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Oh, dear. You've had your share of troubles!



not trying to get sympathy just trying to let you know I have been dealing with this a long time and have tried a lot of things and take the disease very seriously and am not into making false statements   just looking to try yet another thing


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## JasmineTea (Feb 2, 2019)

I have made a shampoo (syndet) "bar" with pine tar. DeeAnna is correct in stating that it won't firm up. It didn't matter to me . . . I just put it in a disposable condiment cup, and my son uses a small plastic scoop to dish it up. It's not stored in the shower, so is not exposed to wet. The texture is that of a firm paste.


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## DeeAnna (Feb 2, 2019)

@JasmineTea -- I was re-reading the thread in which you posted a picture of the PT shampoo-bar-in-a-cup that you made. Thanks for sharing how it turned out for you. I hope it's helping your son!


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## amd (Feb 4, 2019)

@JasmineTea I'll have to find the thread about your shampoo bar in a cup! I tinkered with a recipe (on paper) this weekend but still researching a few questions that popped in my head as I was reformulating.


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## DeeAnna (Feb 4, 2019)

@amd -- I believe this is the thread you're looking for: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/syndet-shampoo-bar-with-pine-tar.70312/


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## amd (Feb 4, 2019)

Thank you!


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