# Bunny's Castile Questions



## AlicesWonderhands (Apr 22, 2015)

What's the super fat?
When I run the oz through the soap calc I get different water and lye ratios, so I imagine I am not calculating that correctly. 

I plan to HP it. How long will it take to cure?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Apr 22, 2015)

x Oz of olive oil should always give the same lye amount.  I think most people superfat their Castiles at 5% and leave it for at least 6-months, if not 12.  Mine is over 14 months old and still not fab - but that is the nature of 100% OO soaps.

ETA - okay, I see that this isn't actually a Castile at all, but a bastile.

Bastiles still need a long old cure, generally reducing as the OO amount reduces but also bearing in mind the other ingredients - so 70% OO will need less than 80% when the other 30% or 20% are made up a mix of similar oils


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## Seawolfe (Apr 22, 2015)

Are you talking about this commercial soap? 

http://www.bunnysbath.com/category/Castile-Olive-Oil-Bars-56

Thats not a Castile soap, its just your basic OO/CO/PO soap

Ingredients
Saponified Oils of Olive, Coconut, and Palm

I would guess 5% Superfat would be fine unless your CO is over 15-20%

HP cure takes just as long as CP cure really, 4-6 weeks - more if olive oil is more than 50%


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## AlicesWonderhands (Apr 22, 2015)

I am talking about this:
http://www.soapdisharchives.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29369
VERSION 1: 
32 oz olive oil 
1 oz castor oil 
4.25 oz lye 
10 oz distilled water 

VERSION 2: 
32 oz. olive 
3 oz. castor 
4.5 oz. lye 
12 oz. water 

VERSION 3: 
95% olive oil 
5% castor oil 

I want to make a baby soap, very mild and creamy. I thought this recipe with oat flour and honey would be nice for baby and momma.

I also considered adding a touch of coconut oil to add to the hardness of the bar( I really dont have time for a 12-14 month cure. One of the reasons I want to HP it.)  but not too much to become harsh for baby....


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## Susie (Apr 22, 2015)

And it says castor oil, also.

My guess is this:

OO 45-50%
CO 20-25%
Palm 20%
Castor 5%

I would stick with superfat 5% if you use CO 20%, and superfat 8% if you use CO 25%.

However, that is not how I would make soap using those ingredients.  I would use higher palm and less OO to cure faster than 6 months.

ETA-I just saw your proposed recipes.  Those recipes are going to take a *very* long time to cure. 

I would probably use a high lard soap: Lard 80%, CO 15%, Castor Oil 5%.  Lard is incredibly conditioning.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Apr 22, 2015)

HP does not reduce the need for cure - it is SAFE as soon as the cook is done, but is far from READY.

Has the particular mother and baby involved given any hints as to what they want in a soap?


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## IrishLass (Apr 22, 2015)

I remember Bunny! I _loved_ reading her posts when I first started soaping. She was always so kind and generous. I hope she's still around somewhere.

For version one, this is what I came up with on SoapCalc using Bunny's ingredient amounts:

96.97% Olive Oil (32 oz.)
3.03% Castor oil (1 oz.)
29.82% lye concentration/or 30.3% water as % of oils (10 oz. water)
4.8% S/F (4.25oz. lye)

For version 2:

91.43% Olive oil (32 oz.)
8.57 Castor oil (3 oz.)
27.28% lye concentration/or 34.3% water as % of oils (12oz water)
4.6% S/F (4.5oz. lye)

If I were making either one of those recipes using CP, I would use much less water than Bunny since olive oil takes _forever_ to come to trace and set up at those particular levels. If doing HP, however, the water amount is fine 'as is'. (For CP, I would personally use a 33% lye concentration for either recipe, and I'd let it cure for at least 3 months on the low end, and 6 months to a year at the high end. But that's just me. ).

As for superfat, I'd use at least 5% superfat, but that's just me, too.

I've never HP'd high % olive oil soap, so I'm not sure what it would _feel_ like or how it would perform if the cure time were any shorter than what I mentioned above. You'll definitely want it to cure for at least 4 to 6 weeks, though, even if HP'd. HP needs a good cure just like CP, possibly even longer because of the extra water.

IrishLass


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## AlicesWonderhands (Apr 22, 2015)

Susie said:


> And it says castor oil, also.
> 
> My guess is this:
> 
> ...



Ty for your help and input, but out of respect for the planet we do not use palm oil.


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## AlicesWonderhands (Apr 22, 2015)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> HP does not reduce the need for cure - it is SAFE as soon as the cook is done, but is far from READY.
> 
> Has the particular mother and baby involved given any hints as to what they want in a soap?



no one specific but myself and some other close birthing mommas. I want to make a soap that is very mild and looks/feels creamy.


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## AlicesWonderhands (Apr 22, 2015)

IrishLass said:


> I remember Bunny! I _loved_ reading her posts when I first started soaping. She was always so kind and generous. I hope she's still around somewhere.
> 
> For version one, this is what I came up with on SoapCalc using Bunny's ingredient amounts:
> 
> ...


THANK YOU!!! what do you think if I added a 10% coconut oil to this?


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## IrishLass (Apr 22, 2015)

AlicesWonderhands said:


> THANK YOU!!! what do you think if I added a 10% coconut oil to this?


 

My pleasure!

Personally, adjusting things to add in 10% coconut would make it even lovelier if you ask me, but then again I do love my bubbles! 

Just make sure to run the new amounts through a soap calculator.


IrishLass


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## Rowan (Apr 22, 2015)

I made Bunny's castille which was posted on the lathering forum and add honey and either oats or oatmilk.  It's an awesome soap and I don't usually like high Olive Oil Soaps. The lather is bubbly and not slimy and my friends keep asking for more, they use it for their kids and as a facial soap.  Surprisingly it cures quicker than usual Castille soaps. My batches have been mild and lovely to use at 4 months, which is the same amount of time I cure my CP soaps! I'm wondering if that's due to starch from the oats.

Just a quick tip - add the honey, oats or oatmilk after its cooked and not before, don't ask me how I know It only takes me 45 mins from start to finish to HP.

I used 91percent Olive Oil
9percent Castor Oil

I've just made a batch CP with oatmilk, using the 50percent split method (adding oatmilk to the oils).  It traced within a few minutes and was ready to cut in 24 hours.  It's only a few days old, but so far looks really good.


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## AlicesWonderhands (Apr 22, 2015)

Rowan said:


> I made Bunny's castille which was posted on the lathering forum and add honey and either oats or oatmilk.  It's an awesome soap and I don't usually like high Olive Oil Soaps. The lather is bubbly and not slimy and my friends keep asking for more, they use it for their kids and as a facial soap.  Surprisingly it cures quicker than usual Castille soaps. My batches have been mild and lovely to use at 4 months, which is the same amount of time I cure my CP soaps! I'm wondering if that's due to starch from the oats.
> 
> Just a quick tip - add the honey, oats or oatmilk after its cooked and not before, don't ask me how I know It only takes me 45 mins from start to finish to HP.
> 
> ...



This is what I was considering as well. I was going to freeze the oat milk and use it for the water...


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## AlicesWonderhands (Apr 22, 2015)

IrishLass said:


> My pleasure!
> 
> Personally, adjusting things to add in 10% coconut would make it even lovelier if you ask me, but then again I do love my bubbles!
> 
> ...


 I am hoping it adds a bit to the hardness of the bar as well! I just <3 coconut oil in soap!


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## Rowan (Apr 23, 2015)

AlicesWonderhands said:


> This is what I was considering as well. I was going to freeze the oat milk and use it for the water...



the beauty of the 50percent split method is that you don't need to freeze the milk. You use 50percent water to dissolve the lye, then add the oatmilk to the oils.  It worked perfectly. I tried freezing the oatmilk and adding lye to it but it goes like thick lumpy porridge and I was worried that the lye hadn't fully dissolved without straining!

I'll try and post some photos, including the bubbles I get with the HP Olive Oil, castor oil, oats and honey.

The first is the CP oatmilk. I used sugar rather than honey for this one as I wanted to add lavender and lavender and honey didn't quite work last time!

The second picture is the HP oats, milk and honey, showing the bubbles! Good luck with whichever recipe you choose. I'm sure it will be an awesome soap whatever you do. Just to add , I used a 5percent superfat.

P.s. Thanks TEG for moving the photos into one post. I can't seem to upload more than one image at a time!


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## Obsidian (Apr 23, 2015)

There is no reason to add coconut to castle in order to harden it, it will be plenty hard on its own. I also wouldn't want coconut in a baby soap, even a little could cause issues with delicate skin.
I honestly don't know why people are hung up on castile for babies. A 100% lard soap is just as mild, cures faster and has a much nicer lather.


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## Rowan (Apr 23, 2015)

I agree with obsidian, there are other recipes that are just as mild.  It's good to try a few and find what works best for you. Personally, I used just water for my babies, until about 18 months old.   Sorry I didn't see that you were making the soap for babies too. I just wanted to comment on my results for Bunny's Castille!


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## Chefmom (Apr 23, 2015)

Rowan said:


> I made Bunny's castille which was posted on the lathering forum and add honey and either oats or oatmilk.  It's an awesome soap and I don't usually like high Olive Oil Soaps. The lather is bubbly and not slimy and my friends keep asking for more, they use it for their kids and as a facial soap.  Surprisingly it cures quicker than usual Castille soaps. My batches have been mild and lovely to use at 4 months, which is the same amount of time I cure my CP soaps! I'm wondering if that's due to starch from the oats.
> 
> Just a quick tip - add the honey, oats or oatmilk after its cooked and not before, don't ask me how I know It only takes me 45 mins from start to finish to HP.
> 
> ...



Rowan, how do you make your oatmilk?

http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## Rowan (Apr 23, 2015)

I soak my oats in distilled water for a few hours (sometimes overnight, if I'm organised the night before) and then strain it. I used about 3-4 heaped tablespoons in approximately 150mls of water.  I could have used a finer strainer, there's a couple of specks of very fine oats in the bars but I'm ok with that.


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## Chefmom (Apr 23, 2015)

Rowan said:


> I soak my oats in distilled water for a few hours (sometimes overnight, if I'm organised the night before) and then strain it. I used about 3-4 heaped tablespoons in approximately 150mls of water.  I could have used a finer strainer, there's a couple of specks of very fine oats in the bars but I'm ok with that.



Thank you!  I googled it, and found descriptions about blending it and then "milking" it through a special grain milking bag....it put me off just a little.  

If I don't mind wee bits of oats in the final soap...can I just use it as is, soaked and blended instead of straining it?


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## Rowan (Apr 23, 2015)

If you're not worried about little bits of oats in the final soap I would just put dry oats in a coffee grinder or bullet to make the oats a bit finer. Then I would add them to the soap after trace.  It makes an exfoliating bar with the creaminess of the oat milk included. 

If you don't like exfoliating bars, I would do the method suggested above and make oat milk.  I only use a normal sieve.  I don't worry about blending my oats, but I like to keep things simple! You get quite a thick milk just from soaking the oats. I imagine if you blended them you would gets lots of little bits and need a finer sieve/strainer.  Hope that helps?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Apr 23, 2015)

You might also be able to buy oatmilk.  I found out it is available here


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## Obsidian (Apr 23, 2015)

Chefmom said:


> Thank you!  I googled it, and found descriptions about blending it and then "milking" it through a special grain milking bag....it put me off just a little.
> 
> If I don't mind wee bits of oats in the final soap...can I just use it as is, soaked and blended instead of straining it?



You really should strain it, at least through a sieve to get out any big chunks.


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## AlicesWonderhands (Apr 23, 2015)

Obsidian said:


> There is no reason to add coconut to castle in order to harden it, it will be plenty hard on its own. I also wouldn't want coconut in a baby soap, even a little could cause issues with delicate skin.
> I honestly don't know why people are hung up on castile for babies. A 100% lard soap is just as mild, cures faster and has a much nicer lather.



Because Olive Oil has some of the same lipids and compounds as human skin and has been used for centuries on hair and skin for just that reason. 
Plus, we use no animal products or palm oils out of respect for the animals and our vegetarian customers.


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## AlicesWonderhands (Apr 23, 2015)

Rowan said:


> If you're not worried about little bits of oats in the final soap I would just put dry oats in a coffee grinder or bullet to make the oats a bit finer. Then I would add them to the soap after trace.  It makes an exfoliating bar with the creaminess of the oat milk included.
> 
> If you don't like exfoliating bars, I would do the method suggested above and make oat milk.  I only use a normal sieve.  I don't worry about blending my oats, but I like to keep things simple! You get quite a thick milk just from soaking the oats. I imagine if you blended them you would gets lots of little bits and need a finer sieve/strainer.  Hope that helps?



I am all about SIMPLE! I like the idea of soaking oats and adding the milk 50/50. I dont think mommies are going to be too happy with exfoliation in the baby bar.


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## DeeAnna (Apr 23, 2015)

"...Olive Oil has some of the same lipids and compounds as human skin and has been used for centuries on hair and skin for just that reason...."

One can say pretty much the same thing about any fat, including lard or tallow. The kinds of soap made and used by any given culture that uses soap is more about making do with what's available than it is about any particular magical properties of a given fat. It's only been in the last 100 years or so that people have had a wider choice of fats with which to make soap.

Traditionally, Mediterranean people used olive oil to make soap because that was what they had to use. Scandanavians used animals fats and linseed oil. People in tropical countries made coconut and palm soaps. People in the British Isles and pioneer America traditionally used tallow, horse fat, and lard. I suspect plenty of British and American people from babies to elders have washed with old fashioned lard soap and lived hale and hearty lives. People in the African continent have used goat and pig fat, shea, and other fats indigenous to their regions and I suspect they survived just fine and had lovely skin without castile.


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## AlicesWonderhands (Apr 23, 2015)

Rowan said:


> the beauty of the 50percent split method is that you don't need to freeze the milk. You use 50percent water to dissolve the lye, then add the oatmilk to the oils.  It worked perfectly. I tried freezing the oatmilk and adding lye to it but it goes like thick lumpy porridge and I was worried that the lye hadn't fully dissolved without straining!
> 
> I'll try and post some photos, including the bubbles I get with the HP Olive Oil, castor oil, oats and honey.
> 
> ...


thanks!!!! This was very helpful. Can you please tell me what happened with the lavender? I am planning to use some as well.


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## AlicesWonderhands (Apr 23, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> "...Olive Oil has some of the same lipids and compounds as human skin and has been used for centuries on hair and skin for just that reason...."
> 
> One can say pretty much the same thing about any fat, including lard or tallow. The kinds of soap made and used by any given culture that uses soap is more about making do with what's available than it is about any particular magical properties of a given fat. It's only been in the last 100 years or so that people have had a wider choice of fats with which to make soap.
> 
> Traditionally, Mediterranean people used olive oil to make soap because that was what they had to use. Scandanavians used animals fats and linseed oil. People in tropical countries made coconut and palm soaps. People in the British Isles and pioneer America traditionally used tallow, horse fat, and lard. I suspect plenty of British and American people from babies to elders have washed with old fashioned lard soap and lived hale and hearty lives. People in the African continent have used goat and pig fat, shea, and other fats indigenous to their regions and I suspect they survived just fine and had lovely skin without castile.



I suppose they did. 
It is wonderful to know that humans continue to grow and evolve, both vibrationally and spiritually. These days we are blessed to make choices. And many choose not to kill animals, or use them in any way. 
100s of years ago, using palm was cool, cause it was only sourced by the local tribe who was hand making and hand picking. 
The industrial age has seen a raping of the rain forest and her inhabitants for the palm oil, to offer it to those abroad. 

I remember my great grandmother, telling me about working in the coal camps in WVa. She was a midwife for her community and lived among many immigrants as it was a dirty, dangerous job and prejudice was high. (Think 20s - 30s) 
She recounted to me many times about the Italian children and how they always seemed to have the shiniest hair among all the other cultures. And how they hardly ever had blemishes or dark marks. 
She said one day she just had to know, so she pulled up her skirts and just asked a momma she had delivered for. "what do you use on your skin and hair? You seem to have such healthy skin." And the lady replied "olive oil only". From the time they are born. 
Since then, I have used it on my babies, their first wash down is with olive oil. I make lotions and salves with it and use it in many of my soap recipes. 
It makes sense, to me, to make a soap I hope is very  mild and nourishing, from olive oil. 
We all need a little magic in our lives.


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## Rowan (Apr 23, 2015)

AlicesWonderhands said:


> thanks!!!! This was very helpful. Can you please tell me what happened with the lavender? I am planning to use some as well.



I should have said I used lavender EO. This soap was for one of my Mum's friends who adores lavender.


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## AlicesWonderhands (Apr 23, 2015)

Rowan said:


> I should have said I used lavender EO. This soap was for one of my Mum's friends who adores lavender.


Did it speed up the soap?


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