# Dry crumbled soap



## Jsoaps21 (May 21, 2016)

Hi, I have been making CP soap for about a month now. 
I have had much success, but 2 failures today.
I have a question about one of them though. I un molded my loaf today and cut it, the loaf is dry and a crumbled.
After the loaf was poured in the mold and insulated it also kind of all lumped to one side, which has never happened to me. I am less concerned about that as I could plane the tops to even them out, but each bar cut has a small spot that has crumbled off. And one bar broke very easily, when I cut the loaf.
Anyone else have this issue before what could have cased this?
Previous I have used fragrance oils all from the same company, this is the first time I used this brand/company in CP and this Is the first time I have had this issue, nd I use the same recipe each time.
Thank you for any insight.


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## penelopejane (May 21, 2016)

Hi you are going to have to post your recipe and a photo for anyone to be able to troubleshoot for you.


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## Jsoaps21 (May 21, 2016)

6.2 oz coconut oil
18.9 oz olive oil
3.3 oz palm oil
4.6 oz sunflower oil
4.6 oz lye
10.9 oz water
2.5 oz Old Spice Like Fragrance oil
1 tsp Black mica dispersed in 1 tbsp. canola oil
1 tsp yellow mica dispersed in 1 tbsp. canola oil

Let me snap a pic


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## kchaystack (May 21, 2016)

Did you use a kitchen knife to cut?  Sometimes using a knife will cause soap to look crumbly near the bottom.


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## Jsoaps21 (May 21, 2016)

I did use a knife, the same one I usually use, but maybe that is the problem. I automatically assumed it was my recipe...like I said very new still.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (May 21, 2016)

Is it a cp-safe FO?


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## Jsoaps21 (May 21, 2016)

just went back and read the websites info, does not say it is for sure CP safe. Only 2 customer reviews and neither one says they have used it in CP. I bought this FO back when I was doing exclusively M&P soap, so I just thought I would give it a go. You would think I would have checked before using it since using untested FO ruined a batch of soap earlier in the day...


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## Steve85569 (May 21, 2016)

Does it zap?
I'll bet not.The FO may be the culprit.
 I will every once in a while wait a bit too long to cut a batch and it seems brittle when I cut. 
As long as there's no zap I'd let it cure and use it.


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## Jsoaps21 (May 21, 2016)

Is there a thread on this forum where people can post their favorite/tried and true products they have used? I don't know if it is appropriate to mention different company names within regular threads. I don't want to break any rules, but I am not really interested in purchasing fragrance oils that are not going to cooperate, so it would be nice to have input from veteran soapers. Thanks!

No zap.
Just made it yesterday however.
I expected the soap to be soft and sticky still as this is how my soaps are typically the day after being made. This was completely dry, not tacky in the slightest. Right from the start it was un-usual compared to all the other soaps I have made. Of course all previous soaps were made with EO or FO from the same (what I consider to be) reputable company. This FO was from a different one.


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## earlene (May 21, 2016)

Jsoaps21 said:


> Is there a thread on this forum where people can post their favorite/tried and true products they have used? I don't know if it is appropriate to mention different company names within regular threads. I don't want to break any rules, but I am not really interested in purchasing fragrance oils that are not going to cooperate, so it would be nice to have input from veteran soapers. Thanks!


See the Fragrance Oils/Fragrance Reviews area.  You may find that helpful.


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## cmzaha (May 21, 2016)

Where did you get your fo. Some companies, such as Essentials by Catalina, have fo's that are notorious for acting cranky in cp soap. Actually I have never found one of their fo's that act nice in cp soap.


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## Jsoaps21 (May 21, 2016)

This particular one was from Bulk Apothecary. I have always used Brambleberry FO and EO in all my other batches.


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## penelopejane (May 21, 2016)

Is the crumbliness all the way through? When did you add the FO, was it SB in or hand mixed. 

I don't know that a soap using that recipe should be soft and sticky a day later. Are there streaks of crumbliness through it? It looks like it in the photo but that could just st be part of the white swirl. 

I find with hard oils I have to melt them and the SB into the other oils really well before I add the lye to make sure they mix thoroughly.


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## IrishLass (May 21, 2016)

I can't see anything terribly wrong with your recipe that stands out horribly to me. 

If you ask me, either of the following (or maybe even both) might be the culprit:

1) Your scale might be off, or a mistake happened when weighing....

or

2) The FO might be the culprit, especially considering where it came from (I've noticed that there have been lots of complaints lodged against BA lately for selling below-par products). Plus- you added a lot of it to your batch. Speaking only for myself, the absolute highest amount of FO that I would have added to that size of a batch is 2 oz, but only if the FO was a lightweight in terms of scent strength in my finished/cured soap, and if it were a safe usage rate. The normal amount I would have started with (if it was my first time CP'ing the FO and I couldn't find a usage rate for it) would've been 1.5 oz, which is .75 oz ppo. 

Did the soap gel? 


IrishLass


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## Jsoaps21 (May 21, 2016)

I guess soft and sticky is the wrong description.
The loaf is hard, but when cut into it is a usually a little tacky. And very dry. It also has a different feel to it than my other batches do. It is super smooth in some spots, when you handle it, it falls apart in some places. There are patches or streaks of dryness throughout the bars.
This batch was not. This batch is as dry as my 4 week old bars.

It could have been an error in measuring/weighing ingredients, I am a pastry chef and use a scale every day to weigh/measure but of course I am not above making a mistake.

Hmmm...I thought 1 oz of fragrance per lb of oils was average usage, but I will admit I was just sort of guessing at that and I decided to use less since it was an untested FO.

I don't think it gelled. I checked on it a few times and it never looked like my gelled soaps do, plus it never got really hot/warm like my gelled soaps do. And it doesn't look like my gelled soaps do.

Sorry for sounding like such a newbie, I really do appreciate all the input.


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## SuzieOz (May 21, 2016)

Hi Jsoaps21, I have had this happen a lot and I've so far nailed it down to a few things - It is more likely to happen if my soap batter is thin (thin trace), if I soap cool (less than 40 degrees celcius), and if the temperature of my room is quite cool (maybe this causes the batter to cool down quicker) and/or if my soap doesn't gel.

There are no doubt other causes, but for me I am able to ensure my soap doesn't crumble if I soap hot, bring to a thick trace and make sure the soap gels. This is, of course, not much good if you want to do intricate swirls, but I've just about given up on trying to do those anyway, in favour of a lovely hard, gelled soap.

I understand that other soapers have good success without gelling their soaps, also soaping at room temperature, but I don't. Soaping is such a personal thing and everyone needs to find what works for them.

Hope this helps at least a bit. Keep experimenting and you will find what works for you as you gain more experience. Good luck!


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## Seawolfe (May 21, 2016)

I've had ungelled soaps crumble on me when I cut them - and I cut them a bit too late.  The recipe was good (I still use it), and the scent was only lavender. So I blamed the non-gelling and not cutting at the right time or with the wrong tools (a thinner knife is better). When I gel I dont have cutting problems, so I gel


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## SuzieOz (May 21, 2016)

Seawolfe said:


> When I gel I dont have cutting problems, so I gel



Yep, same.


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## penelopejane (May 22, 2016)

SuzieOz said:


> Yep, same.



Yes, same. 
If I use shea butter or coconut oil I heat them and SB them into the oils before adding the lye.  This seems to work to avoid separation of hard and soft oils (which can lead to spots or unmixed sections).

I only blend to emulsion and don't have a problem with that.


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## Jsoaps21 (May 22, 2016)

I think I forgot to say I used a stick blender. Generally I just hand mix the oils together once the hard oils are melted. I will stick blend and see how that works.


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## penelopejane (May 22, 2016)

Jsoaps21 said:


> I think I forgot to say I used a stick blender. Generally I just hand mix the oils together once the hard oils are melted. I will stick blend and see how that works.




Sounds like a good idea. Just don't go too far. I SB before the lye so I know I only have to SB the lye in quickly. Try a bit of SB and then a little hand blending. It doesn't take much to get to emulsion and thick trace is hot on its heels especially at high lye 30% +
I usually only handblend colours but everyone in the world SBs them on YouTube so I'm the odd one out.


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