# face scrub recipes please?



## emi (Apr 22, 2017)

I've been using the mild original cetaphil on my face since I was a teen, and then use a scrub about twice a week. It's been St Ives apricot scrub for many years now which works for me just fine. I'd like to try to replace these products with my own recipes eventually, so I started trying various scrub recipes. I found a bunch online but most of them just involved an oil like olive or coconut with some type of exfoliant in it like sugar, salt, oatmeal, etc. I found these types of scrubs to leave my skin way too greasy. I don't have particularly dry or oily skin. Maybe slightly on the dry side. Maybe olive or coconut oil would be ok for the rest of my body, but it's just too much for my face. Does anyone have any facial scrub recipes that involve more than oil plus exfoliant? Something that won't require me to wash my face again?


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## shunt2011 (Apr 22, 2017)

I highly recommend checking out swiftcraftymonkey.com.  There is a plethora of information and recipes for formulating just about anything.


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## Saranac (Apr 22, 2017)

shunt2011 said:


> I highly recommend checking out swiftcraftymonkey.com.  There is a plethora of information and recipes for formulating just about anything.



Great site and Susan even has a dupe of Cetaphil on her blog.  As for the face scrub, polysorbate 80 will help the oils rinse better.


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## lsg (Apr 22, 2017)

Ditto from me.


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## emi (Jun 5, 2017)

Ahh I finally figured it out! I have to go to swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com. Not swiftcraftymonkey.com. 

Wow, what an amazing amount of info! I'm just getting into soap and this will be another world for me to dive into! As daunting as some of these ingredients sound, I'm definitely going to try out some of these recipes. 

Thanks for the link!


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## DeeAnna (Jun 5, 2017)

Here's more: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=58468


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## Dahila (Jun 5, 2017)

you are wrong she is Canadian and her address is : http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ca/


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## DeeAnna (Jun 5, 2017)

swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com or swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ca both work, Dahlia.


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## Dahila (Jun 5, 2017)

yeah DeeAnna they do, a months ago or so, It took me to some strange pages, when I went on .com , but it is working  thanks


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## emi (Jun 7, 2017)

Please correct me if I am wrong on what I think I've learned so far. As I said in my original post my goal is to replace my St. Ives apricot scrub I use for my face, (but I have a feeling curiosity and fascination with other possibilities will derail me before I get there!) After reading from various posts on swiftcraftymonkey as well as the suggested thread on the forum, I think my first step should be to attempt an "emulsified sugar scrub". I'm guessing that the apricot scrub is some type of emulsification? I'm planning to work with the proportions that was posted on the recommended thread by DeeAnna below:

Base --
liquid oil ... 46.7%
solid fat ... 31.2%
e-wax ... 17.3% (can vary up or down 1-2% depending on the skin feel you want)
fragrance ... 3.0% (may vary from 1% to 3%)
clay ... 1.3% (used for color)
preservative ... 0.5%
Add sugar to the base at 150% of the base weight. (Example: 100 g base + 150 g sugar)

I saw the recipe on swiftcraftymonkey that doriettfarm from this forum suggested for "emulsified sugar scrub with black cocoa butter" and found that recipe to be similar to DeeAnna's proportions. Except it asked for 10% stearic acid or cetyl alcohol, saying "5% of each is very nice". I believe I've seen stearic acid in soap making for solubility. I was considering adding some to this recipe. Any thoughts? 

I'm a newbie soap maker, so while some of the ingredients I came across were familiar, some were foreign to me. Knowing from cooking that "emulsify" means to combine oil and water into a homogeneous substance (like mayo), I figured out that "E-wax" is the essential ingredient that allows this scrub to become emulsified. I looked up what "E-wax" was and learned that it is a wax that has been treated by other chemicals to allow it to combine oil and water. I read on wikipedia that:

The ingredients for Emulsifying Wax NF are: "Cetearyl Alcohol, Polysorbate 60, PEG-150 Stearate, and Steareth-20"

Then I went on amazon to try to order it and saw one of the products title as this:

"Emulsifying Wax Nf/ Polysorbate 60/ Polawax/ E-Wax"

Then on Coopcoco.com the INCI for Polawax was "Cetylstearyl Alcohol (and) Polysorbate 60. OR Emulsifying Wax NF"

I understand INCI to be the scientific names for substances?

So.... Is Polywax the same as E-wax? If not, how are they different and which one should I get for this recipe? I also happen to have sodium lactate for soap making. Would that work as a preservative for this scrub?

Again, this is my first attempt, so I agree with anyone who says I  should keep it as simple as possible. As some of you know, I definitely  made that mistake with soap making!


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## BattleGnome (Jun 7, 2017)

Polywax is a brand name while e-wax is the generic.

Your recipe looks good to me, but I will say that I'm also pretty new to the emulsifier thing


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## dixiedragon (Jun 7, 2017)

I also find emulsifiers a bit confusing. I think there is some proprietary information here, which is why they are described somewhat vaguely. Honestly, there's a bit of guess work. I had a lotion recipe I liked using something called "conditioning e-wax" - well, I ran out of that bag and that supplier isn't around any more, so I ordered some more e-wax, thinking, "E-wax is e-wax." Nope. I've had to tweak my lotion recipe a bit to get it back to where I like it.

Re face scrub - don't use harsh or sharp exfoliants on your face. I read about a lady who washed her face with Lava soap every day. Her complexion was beautiful for years, but because the pumice bits were give her little micro- scratches on her face EVERY DAY, there's a build-up of scar tissue on her face that makes her look MUCH older. I would not use salt, pumice, walnut hulls, etc on my face. Oatmeal is nice.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 7, 2017)

"...stearic acid in soap making for solubility..."

You have it rather backwards. Stearic acid is used to thicken lotions if used as-is. It makes a nearly *in*soluble soap if reacted with NaOH. 

You can add stearic acid to an emulsifying scrub to add thickness if you don't get the right texture and performance without it. Beeswax is acting as a thickener, if you see it listed in other people's emulsifying scrub recipes. Bottom line -- there's no magic to beeswax or stearic acid. You can use either one, both, or neither of them as you think is best.

Polawax is the brand name for a type of emulsifier made by the Croda company, if memory serves me correctly. Polawax has one and only one INCI. It's the "Kleenex" of facial tissues. 

E-wax is a generic emulsifier. If you see "E-wax NF" then you know the product adheres to a minimum standard of performance, but the "NF" (national formulary) designation doesn't mean there is one single fixed recipe. This means the composition can vary somewhat, and that's why you're seeing the different INCI variations. "E-wax" is the "facial tissue" of facial tissues. 

Which is best? IMO, use whatever emulsifier you want. Susan (swiftcraftymonkey) prefers the results she gets from using Polawax, but it's not carried by the suppliers I prefer to use and I've had good results with generic e-wax, however it is formulated. So just pick one and get used to how it works for you. That's really the key -- stick with one product, at least while you're a rookie, and learn how it behaves.

E-wax is not the same as conditioning emulsifier. E-wax is based on the emulsifier Ceteareth 20 or Polysorbate 60. 

Conditioning emulsifier is based on the emulsifier Behentrimonium Methosulfate. BTMS is the brand name for a specific type of conditioning emulsifier. There are several flavors of BTMS -- I know of BTMS 25, BTMS 50, and BTMS 225. There may be others. You can also buy generic versions of BTMS, and they are just called "conditioning emulsifier."

Sodium lactate is used as a preservative in meats, but it is NOT an effective broad spectrum preservative for bath and body products. Use Phenonip or Liquid Germall Plus or other broad spectrum preservative formulated for this specific use.


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## Dahila (Jun 7, 2017)

Ewax or Emulsifying wax NF is a generic form of Polawax ,  Ewax;  INCI: Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Polysorbate 60,  I think wikipedia is wrong


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## DeeAnna (Jun 7, 2017)

The INCI for generic e-wax (or generic emulsifying conditioner) will vary somewhat. Wikipedia's INCI may well be right for the particular product the author was looking at. The correct INCI for YOUR emulsifier is whatever YOUR supplier says it is.


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## emi (Jun 7, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> "...stearic acid in soap making for solubility..."
> 
> You have it rather backwards. Stearic acid is used to thicken lotions if used as-is. It makes a nearly *in*soluble soap if reacted with NaOH.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks you for this! and for correcting me with the stearic acid and sodium lactate. It's embarrassing to make dumb mistakes like that especially as a newbie. I did see BTMS as well. I will stick to an E-wax for now and try out your recipe. Do you have any specific oils you recommend? Susan used mostly soybean oil with 20% black cocoa butter in that recipe I referenced. I don't really know what to shoot for with this kind of product. I would also like to use a different exfoliant instead of sugar, like oatmeal as dixiedragon suggested. I'll use a well blitzed oatmeal or maybe even a collodial or instant as suggested by fellow soapers. I made the mistake of not blitzing my old fashioned oats in soap and it was like little rocks. I had to soak it in hot water before I could use it. Thank you again for replaying with so much generous information!



dixiedragon said:


> I also find emulsifiers a bit confusing. I think there is some proprietary information here, which is why they are described somewhat vaguely. Honestly, there's a bit of guess work. I had a lotion recipe I liked using something called "conditioning e-wax" - well, I ran out of that bag and that supplier isn't around any more, so I ordered some more e-wax, thinking, "E-wax is e-wax." Nope. I've had to tweak my lotion recipe a bit to get it back to where I like it.
> 
> Re face scrub - don't use harsh or sharp exfoliants on your face. I read about a lady who washed her face with Lava soap every day. Her complexion was beautiful for years, but because the pumice bits were give her little micro- scratches on her face EVERY DAY, there's a build-up of scar tissue on her face that makes her look MUCH older. I would not use salt, pumice, walnut hulls, etc on my face. Oatmeal is nice.


 
Gosh that's scary. I hope I haven't been doing the same with this apricot scrub. It's definitely not as harsh as sugar. I don't even know if crushed apricot seeds are even available. Probably is somewhere. I absolutely love oatmeal and plan to try that. There's all kinds of exfoliants I'd like to experiment. I tried poppy seeds in one of my soap batches that turned out nice. I was thinking of trying wheat germ next. But what might work for a bar of soap to be used on the body won't necessarily translate into a facial scrub. That lava pumice story is something to keep in mind though. Thanks for sharing that with me!


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## DeeAnna (Jun 7, 2017)

I don't have any strong recommendations for the fats because everyone is different. I have used shea, lard, or tallow for the solid fat and jojoba, meadowfoam, rice bran oil, high oleic sunflower, or coconut oil for the liquid fat. But the animal fats are a turn-off for many people. The jojoba and meadowfoam are on the exotic side. But most of these fats (excluding jojoba and meadowfoam) are ones I keep on hand for soaping. I like "multi-taskers!"

Try rubbing a dab into your skin of the various fats you have on hand. See which ones feel best to you -- silky, dry, greasy, light, heavy, etc. -- and choose accordingly. I like fats that tend to be light and dry on my skin. You might like fats that create a heavier skin feel or something else. Hard to say!


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## BattleGnome (Jun 8, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> I have used shea, lard, or tallow for the solid fat and jojoba, meadowfoam, rice bran oil, high oleic sunflower, or coconut oil for the liquid fat.



Do you add any extra preservative if you use an animal fat? 

It's not something I ever considered because of the refrigeration thing but sounds like it could be a fun experiment someday.


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## emi (Jun 8, 2017)

dixiedragon said:


> Re face scrub - don't use harsh or sharp exfoliants on your face. I read about a lady who washed her face with Lava soap every day. Her complexion was beautiful for years, but because the pumice bits were give her little micro- scratches on her face EVERY DAY, there's a build-up of scar tissue on her face that makes her look MUCH older. I would not use salt, pumice, walnut hulls, etc on my face. Oatmeal is nice.



I feel silly that I'm just noticing this now, but I'm pretty horrified to learn that the 2nd ingredient (after water) in my "apricot" scrub I've been using all these years is WALNUT shells!! Then the 4th ingredient is corn meal! The only apricot in there is the 2nd to LAST ingredient that is apricot extract. Yet another scam where they barely put some in just so they can claim it on the label. Ugh, what a disappointment. But I suppose also a relief that I'm finding this out earlier than later. I'm 38 and I've been using this stuff on and off for the last 20 years, maybe consistently about twice a week in the last 5 years. I'm gonna whip me up a batch as soon as my Ewax and Germaben II arrives! I'm going to split it into 2 batches to try different exfoliants. Maybe instant oatmeal in one and poppy seeds in the other. Any more suggestions for a facial exfoliants? I think I do like it rougher than most. I find the store brands with "mirco-beads" to not be enough at all. I used to love the smoothness I felt after scrubbing with the apricot scrub I'm not going to be using anymore. And for oils, I was thinking of trying sunflower oil and shea butter.


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## dixiedragon (Jun 8, 2017)

I thought that might be the one! I think the Apricot mostly refers to the scent. I strongly encourage you to step away for the harsh exfoliants on your face - you may be irritating your skin, causing it to produce more oil to defend itself. To get the same smoothness, use a mild, exfoliant-free cleanser or soap and move your fingertips in gentle circles all over your face for one minute. It will feel just as smooth and is MUCH easier on your skin!


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## Dahila (Jun 8, 2017)

facial scrubs should not be used more than twice a week,   dixie is right


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## DeeAnna (Jun 8, 2017)

BattleGnome said:


> Do you add any extra preservative if you use an animal fat? ...



I use the recommended amount of preservative per the manufacturer's instructions. I'm puzzled -- why would a product with animal fat need more preservative?


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## BattleGnome (Jun 8, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> I use the recommended amount of preservative per the manufacturer's instructions. I'm puzzled -- why would a product with animal fat need more preservative?



It feels like animal products would need some sort of extra.... something to make it (for lack of a better term) stable at room temperature? It just seems like it would get smelly or I'd have the cats after me for a taste. Maybe I'm just assuming rancidity because I consider animal food products to not be shelf stable.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 8, 2017)

I don't know that I agree with you. Any fat can become rancid with time. It is true that some fats become rancid faster than others, but there are many factors that contribute to the differences in shelf life, not just whether the fat is from an animal or a plant. 

Look at grapeseed oil that has a shelf life of perhaps 6 months vs. coconut oil that has a shelf life of perhaps 2 years. THe difference in these two fats is the high % of fatty acids with double carbon bonds in the grapeseed versus very low % of these fatty acids in coconut. 

But other factors can contribute to shelf life, including how the fat is manufactured and stored. It wasn't all that many decades ago that coconut oil was considered to be the LEAST stable of the soaping fats, because of how it used to be harvested, handled, and processed. This was such a problem that soap makers used the minimum possible amount of coconut to boost lather, because the coconut oil of the day smelled so bad. 

I think you're mixing apples and oranges, however. Rancidity isn't prevented by _preservatives_ such as Liquid Germall Plus. It is inhibited by _antioxidants_ (examples: Rosemary Oleoresin, BHT) and by _chelators_ (EDTA, sodium citrate).


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## emi (Jun 8, 2017)

Aww shoot. You're all saying what my mom's been telling me for years! Not to use scrubs!  Or very weary of them anyway. She's used nothing but cetaphil  on her skin since I think she was a teenager herself. She's 76 now and her skin looks amazing. She always tells me just to use a soft warm washcloth  and gently rub circles with my fingers using just cetaphil instead of scrubs. Maybe it's because I'm used to it now, but if I go a week without using a scrub I can literally feel the dead skin layer forming on my face.  the washcloth method works particularly well if i wet my face with warm water, apply cetaphil, wait a few minutes then rub with wet towel. Im just so lazy to go through that. But I'll try to work it into my shower routine. I still want to make a scrub. But I'll keep it to oatmeal.


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## dixiedragon (Jun 8, 2017)

LOL. Listen to your mom! Also, if your face is over producing oil and skin cells to make up for the fact that you're basically rubbing sandpaper on your face daily, it's going to take a little time for it to calm down and go back to normal.


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## toxikon (Jun 8, 2017)

Yeah, walnut shell is no-bueno for your skin. The sharp little edges can cause microtears. The St Ives apricot scrub is pretty well-known around the Reddit skincare community as being a bad choice for skin.

Most folks recommend sticking to chemical exfoliation - it's much gentler than physical exfoliation. BHAs and AHAs are good. 

I usually use chemical exfoliants once or twice a week, then a physical scrub once a month to get rid of any dead skin build-up that the chemicals might miss. But my physical scrub is just a washcloth.


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## emi (Jun 9, 2017)

toxikon said:


> Yeah, walnut shell is no-bueno for your skin. The sharp little edges can cause microtears. The St Ives apricot scrub is pretty well-known around the Reddit skincare community as being a bad choice for skin.
> 
> Most folks recommend sticking to chemical exfoliation - it's much gentler than physical exfoliation. BHAs and AHAs are good.
> 
> I usually use chemical exfoliants once or twice a week, then a physical scrub once a month to get rid of any dead skin build-up that the chemicals might miss. But my physical scrub is just a washcloth.



ah geez. I guess I'll bring down my use of only oatmeal scrubs to just a  couple times a month then, or maybe just a wash cloth like my mom said all this time. I'm 38 and I still hate it when she's right!!  I do appreciate the  informed advise from all of you.... as well as my mother. I'll try chemical exfoliants then for more regular use.  BHA and AHA. I don't know anything about them so I looked it up. Do you  think the information here is accurate?

http://www.differencebetween.net/science/difference-between-aha-and-bha/

I  do know what salysilic acid is, which according to this article, is the  only type of BHA. I remember it being very harsh on my skin and drying  it out too much. But that was back when i was a teenager with more  oilyness and monthly breakouts that lead me to try those "acne" products  which I found to be way to harsh and unnecessary. I just had some  clogged pores, not infections and inflammation of bad acne. So i never  touched anything with salycilic acid in it again. I guess I have pretty normal  "combination" skin with a little oilyness in the "T" zone, a few dry  patches in front of my ears. But maybe if I use the salycilic acid in  smaller amounts it can serve the purpose of a general exfoliation? Those "acne" face washes and products are so incredibly harsh. Or  should I choose AHAs? The article suggests that it doesn't matter...  after it tells you all these big differences between them and how they  work.


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## BattleGnome (Jun 9, 2017)

To derail things (for a bit)...

I found the dry patches by my ears disappeared when I changed my shampooing habits. I wash my hair 1-2x a week and the patches have disappeared. It was enough of a change that I don't often need a moisturizer anymore. It's only been a few months but the change has been significant.


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## toxikon (Jun 9, 2017)

emi said:


> ah geez. I guess I'll bring down my use of only oatmeal scrubs to just a  couple times a month then, or maybe just a wash cloth like my mom said all this time. I'm 38 and I still hate it when she's right!!  I do appreciate the  informed advise from all of you.... as well as my mother. I'll try chemical exfoliants then for more regular use.  BHA and AHA. I don't know anything about them so I looked it up. Do you  think the information here is accurate?
> 
> http://www.differencebetween.net/science/difference-between-aha-and-bha/
> 
> I  do know what salysilic acid is, which according to this article, is the  only type of BHA. I remember it being very harsh on my skin and drying  it out too much. But that was back when i was a teenager with more  oilyness and monthly breakouts that lead me to try those "acne" products  which I found to be way to harsh and unnecessary. I just had some  clogged pores, not infections and inflammation of bad acne. So i never  touched anything with salycilic acid in it again. I guess I have pretty normal  "combination" skin with a little oilyness in the "T" zone, a few dry  patches in front of my ears. But maybe if I use the salycilic acid in  smaller amounts it can serve the purpose of a general exfoliation? Those "acne" face washes and products are so incredibly harsh. Or  should I choose AHAs? The article suggests that it doesn't matter...  after it tells you all these big differences between them and how they  work.



Yup, that article has a good overview. While they're both effective chemical exfoliants, it usually seems like people generally use BHA for clogged pores/acne while AHA is used for reversing sun damage and anti-aging properties. 

Here's another good read:
http://www.paulaschoice.com/expert-...s/_/difference-between-AHA-and-BHA-exfoliants

I wouldn't recommend the acne face washes or anything harsh, I just use BHA pads to gently wipe down my face after cleansing before bed, then follow up with my moisturizer.

As with any product, you should always introduce them slowly. Try using them once a week, then a few weeks later, try twice a week, etc. 

Here's the BHA I use (it's alcohol-free which means it's less drying): http://a.co/4PYRHM7

Sadly, my favourite St Ives AHA pads have been discontinued, so their price on Amazon is crazy expensive: http://a.co/i0kCnHm

But there are tons of alternatives, especially in the Asian skincare market. They actually have some great products that are much gentler - but shipping can be a pain.

CosRX is one of my favourite cosmetic companies and it looks like they have a AHA/BHA toner: http://jolse.com/product/cosrx-ahab...-toner-150ml/3396/?cate_no=25&display_group=1

Anyway... I could talk skincare for hours and hours, so I don't want to derail your post too much. But my PM box is always open!


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## Flutter (Jun 11, 2017)

I have not read through all 3 pages of this thread, but wanted to share the face scrub I make.  Mine is really simple; I use green tea (just cut open a bag), white sugar and rice bran oil (I never use coconut oil on my face) and a little lavender eo.  I have sensitive skin, so I only use it like once every couple of weeks.

Another natural/homemade face thing I like is what I call "spicy mask"; it is turmeric, greek yogurt and honey (teaspoon of each makes one mask).  I do this once or twice a month and it feels great.  You do have to scrub your face a bit after so you don't end up looking like an Umpa Loompa


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## emi (Jun 15, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> I don't have any strong recommendations for the fats because everyone is different. I have used shea, lard, or tallow for the solid fat and jojoba, meadowfoam, rice bran oil, high oleic sunflower, or coconut oil for the liquid fat. But the animal fats are a turn-off for many people. The jojoba and meadowfoam are on the exotic side. But most of these fats (excluding jojoba and meadowfoam) are ones I keep on hand for soaping. I like "multi-taskers!"
> 
> Try rubbing a dab into your skin of the various fats you have on hand. See which ones feel best to you -- silky, dry, greasy, light, heavy, etc. -- and choose accordingly. I like fats that tend to be light and dry on my skin. You might like fats that create a heavier skin feel or something else. Hard to say!



I made my scrub and it was way too greasy. I couldn't wash it off with water. It was as if I just rubbed coconut oil on my skin and was trying to wash it off. Did i do something horribly wrong? Here's my exact recipe and procedure.

Avocado oil  15.5%   23.25g
HO Sunflower oil 30%   40g
Cocoa butter 15%   22.5g
Shea butter 15%   22.5g
Cetyl alcohol 8%   12g
Ewax 15%     22.5g
Germaben II 0.5%   0.75g
Lavender EO  1%    1.5g

total 150g

I sterilized all my equipment with rubbing alcohol. I melted over a double boiler everything except the EO. I melted everything and got it up to about 170F then held it at 70C (158F) for 20 mins. Then I put the mixture in the fridge and cooled it down to about 45C (113F) and added the EO. I put it back in the fridge until it started to solidify with a thin film over the top and the sides were hardening. I took it out and used a stick blender with a whisk attachment and whisked it for about 5-10 minutes until it reached the consistency of pudding. I then added about a tsp of pulverized oatmeal for exfoliant. Put it into a sterilized jar and let it cool to room temperature. 

I basically used your recipe for ingredient proportions and got the procedure from a scrub recipe I found on swiftcraftymonkey's blog that had similar proportions as yours, but hers had only 10% ewax instead of 15%, and 10% cetyl alcohol instead of 8%.

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2010/09/experiments-in-workshop-black-cocoa.html

Can you tell me if I did something wrong? Or is it supposed to be this greasy?


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## WeaversPort (Jun 15, 2017)

emi said:


> I made my scrub and it was way too greasy. I couldn't wash it off with water. It was as if I just rubbed coconut oil on my skin and was trying to wash it off.



Out of curiosity, did you do a skin test with these oils individually before you combined them? I find Shea butter is amazing in solid lotion bars, especially after a shower. It can, however, leave a heavier skin feeling. That makes it perfect for preventing transepidermal water loss; but if you're not prepared for that, it might feel like leaving chapstick all over your face. 

You might be better off with a "lighter" butter like mango butter. Avocado butter could also be a good option (though you already have avocado oil in the recipe), or you might try one of the more exotic butters if you wanted. Olive butter might be another way to go. The squalene is a nice addition to a facial product, but you'd again want to test it first to see if you like it on your skin. Chances are it might feel a little heavy at first, but should quickly absorb.


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## Dahila (Jun 15, 2017)

Ewax is is greasy,  oils are too heavy for my liking.  I use BMTS-50 or Emulsimulse  ;  inci Glyceryl Stearate (and) Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate, much cheaper and gives the feel similar to BMTS 50


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## DeeAnna (Jun 15, 2017)

"...I made my scrub and it was way too greasy. I couldn't wash it off with water. It was as if I just rubbed coconut oil on my skin and was trying to wash it off. Did i do something horribly wrong?..."

You are expecting to use someone else's recipe with your own tweaks and expecting perfection in the first try. My recipe as written works for me, and it took me about 6 trials to get it right. You'll need to do your own tweaking to get your recipe right for you.

If the product doesn't wash off, then the simple answer is that you need to tweak the emulsifier amount.

My recipe in this thread -- http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=58468 -- calls for e-wax e-wax at 17.3%. I also say in the recipe that you can vary that amount up or down 1-2% depending on the skin feel you want. I also explain why you want to tweak this percentage, starting in Post 24 of this thread.

You used 15% emulsifier. Compare that to my emulsifier percentage and think about it-- you used less emulsifier than the recipe calls for, and you say your face is too greasy after using the product. What tweak can you make to help solve this problem?

edit: And I also see you've included cetyl alcohol in your recipe. That will change the behavior of the scrub as well, so don't expect the emulsifier percentage that I used in my recipe to hold true for yours. Regardless, the method of thinking I'm trying to get you to figure out is still the right way to go to get your recipe to work better for you.


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## dixiedragon (Jun 15, 2017)

I use a salt scrub that's just salt, fragrance and oils on my legs. I like it b/c it does precisely what you say - it leaves oil on my skin. In my inexpert opinion, that recipe looks like lotion + exfoliant.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 15, 2017)

dixiedragon said:


> ...In my inexpert opinion, that recipe looks like lotion + exfoliant.



That's more or less what the recipe is, although it doesn't become a lotion until you rinse the product off with water. 

The OP said somewhere in the middle of this thread after some discussion of alternatives, "... I think my first step should be to attempt an emulsified sugar scrub...." 

That's why we've been talking about scrubs with emulsifier rather than the more basic scrub that you described.


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## emi (Jun 16, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> "...I made my scrub and it was way too greasy. I couldn't wash it off with water. It was as if I just rubbed coconut oil on my skin and was trying to wash it off. Did i do something horribly wrong?..."
> 
> You are expecting to use someone else's recipe with your own tweaks and expecting perfection in the first try. My recipe as written works for me, and it took me about 6 trials to get it right. You'll need to do your own tweaking to get your recipe right for you.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your feedback! You're absolutely right. I shouldn't expect results of what I might like using someone elses recipe I didn't even follow exactly. So this shall be another jouney of tweaking and adjusting to get to my hopefully ideal face scrub. I might also try an alternative to Ewax like Dahlia suggested since she too mentioned the heaviness. But i'm going to first see if omitting the shea and increasing the ewax might lighten the feel. But you didn't mention anything about the process. Did those temperatures and hold time seem ok to you? I am curious what your process is. I'm also going to try coconut oil instead of shea. Shea, as Weaverport says, does feel really heavy on my skin. The only other solid oil I have on hand is soy wax, beeswax, and coconut. So I'm going to try coconut since I do like the feel of it on my skin. I'm going to try increasing ewax all the way to 20% and use proportions of about 40% hard oil and 60% liquid oil as your recipe has just as a starting point and tweak from there as you suggested.  I got the cetyl alcohol from the swiftcrafty recipe. I read that it is a thickener and an emulsion stabilizer and noticed it in several other scrub recipes. Do you find that ingredient to be unnecessary? I'll try this recipe. 

cocoa butter  14%
coconut oil   14%
RB oil  21.5%
Sunflower oil 21%
Ewax  20%
cetyl alcohol 8%
Germaben II  0.5%
Lavender EO 1%

I'll use the same process as before unless I hear I should do otherwise. And only do total 100g in case I have to throw out this batch too! Thanks again for yours as well as everyone else's feedback!


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## artemis (Jun 16, 2017)

emi said:


> And only do total 100g in case I have to throw out this batch too! Thanks again for yours as well as everyone else's feedback!



If you haven't thrown out your first one, maybe you should try it on a different part of your body.


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## Dahila (Jun 16, 2017)

If I was in your situation I would read carefully the instruction how to make them. http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/search?q=sugar+scrub


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## emi (Jun 16, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> That's more or less what the recipe is, although it doesn't become a lotion until you rinse the product off with water.
> 
> The OP said somewhere in the middle of this thread after some discussion of alternatives, "... I think my first step should be to attempt an emulsified sugar scrub...."
> 
> That's why we've been talking about scrubs with emulsifier rather than the more basic scrub that you described.



Well actually maybe that's what I have wrong to begin with. Because you're both   right, it does feel a lot like a lotion. My original attempt here was to  replace using St. Ives apricot scrub. I was at first just wanting to  make my own, but then learned from fellow soapers that the exfoliant  used in that product, walnut shells, are harmful and much to harsh for  the face. So I was going to try making something similar to it but use a  milder exfoliant like oatmeal. I've searched on the web for different  scrubs and they usually involved just some kind of oil plus exfoliant.  Those are way too greasy and wanted something that would actually clean my face as well as exfoliate. Then I discovered recipes with Ewax which I  thought was what I was looking for after learning that ewax has polysorbate 80 in it which is water soluble and somehow thought it would make it less greasy and water soluble. I couldn't find anything other than "scrubs" or "emulsified scrubs". I've only made 2 batches so far  using ewax, with the Ewax in my 2nd batch up to 20% which is definitley less oily, but still oily enought that I would feel the need to use a cleanser either before or after it. As I searched for different "emulsified scrub" recipes, I found the  soap queen lady making something also called "emulsified scrub". But  hers involves using liquid soap which I'm sure dramatically changes it's effect, and maybe closer to what I'm looking for? So maybe my next step is to make liquid soap. Then make a emulsified scrub that has liquid soap in it? yes? no?


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## shunt2011 (Jun 16, 2017)

You could also look into maybe using a premade foaming bath whip and add your exfoliant to that.  I've used this one as a base and mixed other stuff into it to make a pumice scrub.  

http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/products/foaming-bath-whip.aspx

Have never tried it on my face though.


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## emi (Jun 16, 2017)

Dahila said:


> If I was in your situation I would read carefully the instruction how to make them. http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/search?q=sugar+scrub



Thank you for that link! I was using the process instructions from this page:

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2010/09/experiments-in-workshop-black-cocoa.html

which is exactly the same as the process explained in the link you sent me. And I did very carefully hold my temp at 70C for exactly 20 mins and cooled down quickly, whipped and everything. However, I kept reading down on the link you gave me where it goes into preservatives and I just realized the preservative I was using, Germaben II, is completely useless in a anhydrous recipe such as this one! I should've ordered Phenonip instead. But other than that mistake I followed the procedure exactly. That link also talks about using a different emulsifier:

"In my emulsified scrubs, I like to use a cationic emulsifier like Incroquat BTMS-50 or Rita BTMS-225/Incroquat BTMS-225 because it will condition our skin more than using a non-ionic emulsifier like Polawax and because it offers a less greasy feeling to the product."

I noticed you said the same thing in an earlier post for the same reason. I'm wondering though will this product have a cleansing effect? As in to remove any dirt or oil from my face well? That's why I was intrigued by the soap queen lady's recipe that included liquid soap.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB7t9rNo0ck[/ame]


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## cherrycoke216 (Jun 16, 2017)

If the first batch of emulsified scrub feels too greasy, try a muslin clothes or cheese cloth dampen with lukewarm water. It should give your face a bit of sauna effect and make it less greasy. Repeat if needed. Do wash the muslin clothed with soap or dish detergent. 

Or try it like Artemis suggested, on other body parts. Elbow, knee, foot scrubs.

Maybe add a bit of BTMS to fix it. But do have to take note what grams/ percentage it become. Or get some aloe Vera to whip it up. Should also take note, too. Aloe Vera can lessen the greasy feeling. But you have to watch at what gram/ percentage can your first batch take. Do add it based on the propositions of lotion type of scrubs.


ETA: if you go the aloe Vera or distilled water route, you have to heat the water phase and the " first batch" oil phase together, so the temperature are the same. Then whip it good or stick blending it.


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## Dahila (Jun 16, 2017)

Shunt 2011 how does it work for you.  Sugar tends to dissolve slowly so I thought about pumice,  I have extra fine pumice and I made my own bath whip.  How do you find pumice on  your face? Is it gentle or scrubby?


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## shunt2011 (Jun 16, 2017)

Dahila said:


> Shunt 2011 how does it work for you. Sugar tends to dissolve slowly so I thought about pumice, I have extra fine pumice and I made my own bath whip. How do you find pumice on your face? Is it gentle or scrubby?


 
I haven't tried it on my face.  I made it for my husband.  Unfortunately, the last batch I made the pumice was the extra fine and I didn't notice and he didnt' care for it as much.  I'll just end up using it on my feet and hands post gardening etc..


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## zolveria (Jun 16, 2017)

Avocado oil 15.5%  /  83.5  =18.4  X  7  =  12.8
HO Sunflower oil 30%  /  83.5 = 35.9 X 7  =  25.1
Cocoa butter 15%  /  83.5 =18.9  X 6  = 11.3
Shea butter 15%   / 83.5 =  18.9  X 8  =  15.1
Cetyl alcohol 8%   /  83.5  =9.5 X  15.5 =15.1
TOTAL HLB 79.4 

I DID THIS BY HAND.   so i can be off .. YOU CAN USE  hlb spread sheet. there is a ton of oil here.  but this is how you do it.
now you can find a emulsifiers. that can emulsify these. oils
one low range and one high to cover this

hope this help.  We had to understand this in Chemistry NURSE they went over this crap.. It just became handy a couple years ago LOL




emi said:


> I made my scrub and it was way too greasy. I couldn't wash it off with water. It was as if I just rubbed coconut oil on my skin and was trying to wash it off. Did i do something horribly wrong? Here's my exact recipe and procedure.
> 
> Avocado oil  15.5%   23.25g
> HO Sunflower oil 30%   40g
> ...


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## doriettefarm (Jun 16, 2017)

Just wanted to throw out a suggestion. Go back and study the ingredient list for the St Ives scrub.  Notice the main ingredient is water and that's what is missing from the OP's recipe.  I would omit the hard oils and add some water which should reduce the heavy, greasy feeling and also allow the Germaben preservative to work properly.

If you're considering the Soap Queen recipe, the main thing I didn't like about it was the draggy feeling it left on my skin (likely because of the beeswax & stearic acid).  If you like the idea of a scrub that uses liquid soap, here's one that I like much better (I use my homemade liquid soap instead of Dr Bronner's).  http://soapdelinews.com/2014/03/diy...-in-one-facial-scrub-and-cleanser-recipe.html  I substitute kokum butter for the shea because I have oily skin and also add some Poly 80.

And here's another easy scrub recipe that doesn't require any emulsifiers.  It's a dupe of Lush's Angels on Bare Skin and leaves my skin feeling moisturized but not greasy.  http://lovelygreens.com/2014/02/copycat-recipe-angels-on-bare-skin-from.html


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## emi (Jun 17, 2017)

doriettefarm said:


> Just wanted to throw out a suggestion. Go back and study the ingredient list for the St Ives scrub.  Notice the main ingredient is water and that's what is missing from the OP's recipe.  I would omit the hard oils and add some water which should reduce the heavy, greasy feeling and also allow the Germaben preservative to work properly.
> 
> If you're considering the Soap Queen recipe, the main thing I didn't like about it was the draggy feeling it left on my skin (likely because of the beeswax & stearic acid).  If you like the idea of a scrub that uses liquid soap, here's one that I like much better (I use my homemade liquid soap instead of Dr Bronner's).  http://soapdelinews.com/2014/03/diy...-in-one-facial-scrub-and-cleanser-recipe.html  I substitute kokum butter for the shea because I have oily skin and also add some Poly 80.
> 
> And here's another easy scrub recipe that doesn't require any emulsifiers.  It's a dupe of Lush's Angels on Bare Skin and leaves my skin feeling moisturized but not greasy.  http://lovelygreens.com/2014/02/copycat-recipe-angels-on-bare-skin-from.html



This is really helpful. Thank you. So I did some reading about preservatives and learned that there are few preservatives that work for anhydrous products, such as the one I just made. So I see how simply adding water to the product will allow me to use the preservative I have which is Germaben II, as well as help with the greasy feeling as well?  But I also read that I need to add it in the cool down phase, I believe it was under 140F. Phenonip and the different types of Liquipar preservatives were the only one suitable for anhydrous products. Then all this stuff about parabens came up, which I'm almost afraid to ask about on this forum. I get the sense that it's quite controversial and everyone has their strong stance on what they think about it? 
I'm going to try what you said about omitting the hard oils all together and adding water, and this time make sure to add the preservative later. Also I read somewhere that the cetyl alcohol can also attribute to greasiness. Did I read that wrong? Maybe I'll try omitting that as well. So basically just Ewax, liquid oil, preservative and water. I definitley want to try the recipe using liquid soap. I've been reading a lot and watching videos and how to make liquid soap and trying to find a good one to start with. Do you have a suggestion that would be good for a newbie like me? I have made about 9 batches of CP soap so far, and these few scrubs but that's it. Liquid soap is a new thing for me. I've read about how long it all takes and the different phases it will go through. I've bought myself the potassium lye and glycerin in preparation for it. Most recipes has a step where an acid like Boric acid or Borax is added to neutralize the extra lye. But I also found recipes that did not do so and said it was fine. Some use glycerin while others do not. Some use all olive oil to make a true "castile" soap while most recipes used some combination. I would love to make my own liquid soap for it seems to be a base for so many other uses. I'd love to make my own shampoo, liquid hand soap and dish soap. And thanks for the recipe links. I always read that activated charcoal is for oily skin which mine is more a combination. You said you like to add polysorbate 80 which is good for solubility right? I know it is an ingredient in Ewax but maybe just polysorbate would render a less greasy product. I think I might get some of that and experiment with it as well. Thanks again for your reply!


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## anshika154 (Jun 17, 2017)

I will tell you a natural recipe... have you heard about maize flour?? If not search for an Indian store you will get this there. 

Soak in water for 1 min and then apply it and massage lightly, and wash it with lukewarm water you will see visible result in 2 to 3 weeks.


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## emi (Jun 18, 2017)

After more research I found this amazing thread for a liquid soap recipe! I don't know how I missed this before. What I was expecting to be a 5-6 hour process is cut down to an hour or 2 by not just adding glycerin but completely subbing glycerin for water.  My questions were answered regarding glycerin. It speeds up trace. Don't know why but it does. And I think I understand the borax or no borax issue. For super clear soap, all oils need to be saponified. Even if we calculate at 0% SF there might be some chance due to impure KOH that all the oils won't be saponified, hence the 90% KOH option. However that will end up with up to 10% lye heavy soap which is why you would need to add some type of acid, boric or citric acid to neutralize the soap. correct?? For now I'm just going to follow this recipe with these incredible instructions! Thank you IrishLass!!

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46114


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## doriettefarm (Jun 18, 2017)

I highly recommend IrishLass' method for making liquid soap!  Don't have to worry about neutralizing excess lye or cooking your paste to death.  I do a 3% SF for mine.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 18, 2017)

"...even if we calculate at 0% SF there might be some chance due to impure KOH that all the oils won't be saponified, hence the 90% KOH option. However that will end up with up to 10% lye heavy soap..."

You're overthinking this. Neutralization with borax is not necessary. If you follow Irish Lass' tutorial, you'll be fine. 

And you do NOT have to use 100% glycerin -- most of us use part water and part glycerin. It also provides excellent results and is safer.


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## emi (Jun 19, 2017)

Ok thanks. I guess I'm just wanting to understand the principles behind these recipes and procedures. That way I don't have to keep asking so many annoying questions!   like why some have boric acid while others don't. I just have 2 questions about how to execute IrishLass's liquid soap recipe, regarding what to punch into the soap calculator. Do I choose the regular KOH or the 90% KOH option?  (would this happen to have anything to do with my overthinking thoughts about borax from before? Ha!) And do I just keep the "water as % of oils" default of 38%?

...and correct me if I'm wrong, but after reading IrishLass's recipe a few times, including her edits, I'm realizing there's really no need for a crockpot for there is no long low cooking periods involved. In fact there is no heating of anything, both lye solution and combined soap. Is it not very much like CP in the sense that there is no external heat added? Did I order a crockpot for nothing??Save​


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## BattleGnome (Jun 19, 2017)

emi said:


> Did I order a crockpot for nothing??Save​



I have a delicious recipe for crockpot carnitas or beef stew if you want ;p

Your next experiment could be hot process, I hear a crockpot is super useful there. (I haven't made hot process yet but have seen it on the stove top and a crockpot)


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## emi (Jun 19, 2017)

Realizing that I don't need to wait for my crockpot (literally arriving tomorrow!) and noticing how little time this is supposed to take, I went ahead and did it! I think it turned out right. I'm going to let it sit overnight now. It's thick but not like taffy. But the recipe said it was ok if it wasn't even a paste yet, which this is definitely past "paste" stage right? This is like CP liquid soap. The only little bit of heat I used was to melt the coconut oil at the very beginning.  I only used 300g oil because I was scared something was going to go wrong. I went ahead and calculated at regular KOH (not the 90% KOH) and left the water at 38% default. I guess I should test the lye heaviness of it tomorrow? I have phenophaline and my tongue!


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## Dahila (Jun 19, 2017)

Emi the paste is beautiful Vaseline like.  It suppose to be this way. phenophaline do not bother with it,  Tongue is your test the best one.  test it now and if not zapping you can start dissolving.  you do not need to wait.  I soon as I do zap test (never had one zapping) I dissolve it  Congrats on beautiful soap


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## shunt2011 (Jun 19, 2017)

I agree, it looks great.  If no zap you are good to dilute it.


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## emi (Jun 20, 2017)

Yay! No zap! But I'm having a heck of a time diluting it. I'm having to use a lot more water than the recipe said to dilute. The inital amount was basically absorbed by the soap and just made it softer but not at all liquid. I added more water and the sodium lactate and is sitting on a super duper low heat now on the stove. wishing for the best.


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## cherrycoke216 (Jun 20, 2017)

Don't want to rain on your parade...but I notice that you calculate KOH 100% purity.

Um... Did you double check your KOH package? Are you sure it's 100% purity? If not, you'll have some oil floating on top of your liquid soap.


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## emi (Jun 20, 2017)

cherrycoke216 said:


> Don't want to rain on your parade...but I notice that you calculate KOH 100% purity.
> 
> Um... Did you double check your KOH package? Are you sure it's 100% purity? If not, you'll have some oil floating on top of your liquid soap.



Nope I sure didn't. I asked about how to calculate KOH earlier but I didn't get or wait for an answer and went ahead with 100% purity which I'm sure my KOH is not. I just checked and the bottle itself says 84%-92% purity. I knew not understanding all that was going to bite me in the butt. That's why I made such a small batch. So I was supposed to calculate at 90% KOH afterall. ****. Plus this recipe was SF at 3% which I thought was odd for a liquid recipe but I just followed the directions. So this means I'm really going to have extra oil, like 13% SF right? I have it on the stove right now and it's almost all dissolved. Probably another hour or so.  Is there anything I can do at this late stage to fix it? I can't just add lye solution to it now can I? Thanks so much for catching that for me.

And can you tell me why some liquid soap recipes ask for borax or some acid to neutralize while others do not? Is it because some recipes are calculated to be 10% lye heavy to ensure full oil saponification so the acid is needed to neutralize any lye heaviness that might result from that? But that has nothing to do with the 90% KOH option right? I thought it did before but I'm thinking it doesn't now. It's simply to make up for most people's impure KOH. correct? Also, when making liquid soap, should I keep the "water % of oils" at the default of 38%?


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## cherrycoke216 (Jun 20, 2017)

emi said:


> Nope I sure didn't. I asked about how to calculate KOH earlier but I didn't get or wait for an answer and went ahead with 100% purity which I'm sure my KOH is not. I just checked and the bottle itself says 84%-92% purity. I knew not understanding all that was going to bite me in the butt. That's why I made such a small batch. So I was supposed to calculate at 90% KOH afterall. ****. Plus this recipe was SF at 3% which I thought was odd for a liquid recipe but I just followed the directions. So this means I'm really going to have extra oil, like 13% SF right? I have it on the stove right now and it's almost all dissolved. Probably another hour or so.  Is there anything I can do at this late stage to fix it? I can't just add lye solution to it now can I? Thanks so much for catching that for me.
> 
> And can you tell me why some liquid soap recipes ask for borax or some acid to neutralize while others do not? Is it because some recipes are calculated to be 10% lye heavy to ensure full oil saponification so the acid is needed to neutralize any lye heaviness that might result from that? But that has nothing to do with the 90% KOH option right? I thought it did before but I'm thinking it doesn't now. It's simply to make up for most people's impure KOH. correct? Also, when making liquid soap, should I keep the "water % of oils" at the default of 38%?




I think people skim through long post and did not catch your question. I read at a slower pace coz this is second language to me. 
I think neutralize thing comes from Catherine Failor's book. I get into liquid soap making long after her book published. So I'm not really familiar with that. Many here don't do neutralize thing.

I think it's possible to add back the KOH now. But I'm kinda math challenged here. If it's @92%, it's 11% sf. If it's 84%, it's 19% sf. I think. So I'm at lost here. Should emi just wing it, using simple 90% purity here?

Can you post recipe? So others with better math skill can help.

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=58535

Something to read for you. Post #5 explains how to add back KOH. 
But you should post recipe first, let more experienced folks here double check you. 

www.lovinsoap.com/2010/09/liquid-soap-neutralizing-and-superfating/

My experience in LS is quite limited and no neutralization for me. So I think this link might help.

I don't use soap calc for my liquid soap. I use summerbeemeadow or soapee.com & I use " lye concentration instead of water % of oils. Because every oil weight/ density is different. Lye concentration will give a more consistent results.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jun 20, 2017)

I have to also suggest spending more time on the site reading previous posts - a lot of threads do deal with making sure the koh setting is correct among other things. If an answer is not forthcoming it can also be that it is already answered, and recently. Reading through a few pages of the particular section of the forum when trying something new can show a lot of threads with great information.


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## emi (Jun 21, 2017)

cherrycoke216 said:


> I think people skim through long post and did not catch your question. I read at a slower pace coz this is second language to me.
> I think neutralize thing comes from Catherine Failor's book. I get into liquid soap making long after her book published. So I'm not really familiar with that. Many here don't do neutralize thing.
> 
> I think it's possible to add back the KOH now. But I'm kinda math challenged here. If it's @92%, it's 11% sf. If it's 84%, it's 19% sf. I think. So I'm at lost here. Should emi just wing it, using simple 90% purity here?
> ...



Thank you so much for this reply. I think I've figured out at least in concept what's going on with my soap now. My original recipe was exactly from IrishLass's recipe. I only used 300g total oils. 

olive 65%  195g
coconut 25%  75g
castor 10%  30g
SF  3%
KOH 59.87  (calculated at 100% purity)
water 114g  (60g water + 54g glycerin)

This resulted in too much oil that rendered the opaque blob that wouldn't dissolve when trying to dilute. So I calculated the recipe at 90% KOH which said 66.53g which is 6.66g more KOH than what I had used calculating at 100% KOH. So I dissolved 6.66g of water in 7g of water and added it to my soap and it immediately dissolved a good amount of the blobs. I used my SB and blitzed the whole thing into a smooth paste that took on the opaque color because of all the bubbles created. After some cooking, cooling and sitting, it still had an undissolved layer on top. Zap test passed. My bottle of KOH says on it 84%-92% purity which average is 88%. So I'm going to calculate at 88% purity, take the difference and add that. This has been a really great learning experience though. And thank you for telling me about the soapee calculator! That is great for precise KOH %. I also use lye concentration when I make CP soap instead of % of water of oils for the same reason you mentioned. 

Save​


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## emi (Jun 22, 2017)

I added the 6.66g of KOH diluted in 8g water, cooked, blitzed, cool,  sit. A thin foam layer formed on top so I just added some water to make  up for all the dehydration that likely happened. Heated and mixed with a  whisk. Cooled, let it sit and now I finally have the most beautifully  clear liquid soap with no separation! It was a process but I really  learned a lot. Thank you to everyone for helping me through this!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jun 22, 2017)

Looks great!  Glad it was saved - and that it was a positive experience in the end.  Sometimes that is better


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## cherrycoke216 (Jul 1, 2017)

Cool! How do you like your new facial  liquid soap? Does the gel like soap goes through pump bottle well?


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## emi (Jul 3, 2017)

cherrycoke216 said:


> Cool! How do you like your new facial  liquid soap? Does the gel like soap goes through pump bottle well?



I tried making the emulsified sugar scrub by the soap queen lady, but i think my liquid soap was a lot more concentrated. I didn't put it into a pump, but I think it would just barely go through. I split the batch I made into 6 different little jars trying different physical exfoliants. I ended up liking best superfine sugar and, although it requires a lot of it, facial jojoba beads. But my face ends up feeling quite tight and dry so I think I need to take back the liquid soap amount. Like I said I think mine is quite a bit stronger than the brambleberry castile that she uses. I just got some fruit complex AHA that I wanted to add into it, but I want to get the cleanser part right first. Yet another fun learning experience! Except my skin is pretty mad at me right now!


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## Nao (Jul 3, 2017)

I have followed this thread but I can't remember what's been said and not. But what about something really simple with non-comedogenic oils as the base? 
Say, 5% BTMS or polawax, 20% macadamia/hazelnut/ mango butter and water for the rest? Than add whatever exfoliant you want. 
If it's to thin in consistency add more polawax/BTMS, too greasy try upping the emulsifier or decrease the oils.


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## emi (Jul 3, 2017)

Nao said:


> I have followed this thread but I can't remember what's been said and not. But what about something really simple with non-comedogenic oils as the base?
> Say, 5% BTMS or polawax, 20% macadamia/hazelnut/ mango butter and water for the rest? Than add whatever exfoliant you want.
> If it's to thin in consistency add more polawax/BTMS, too greasy try upping the emulsifier or decrease the oils.



Well I tried 2 batches of something similar before I went down the liquid soap path. It's on the 4th page of this thread #32 and on. I first tried this:

Avocado oil  15.5%   23.25g
HO Sunflower oil 30%   40g
Cocoa butter 15%   22.5g
Shea butter 15%   22.5g
Cetyl alcohol 8%   12g
Ewax 15%     22.5g
Germaben II 0.5%   0.75g
Lavender EO  1%    1.5g

which was waaay too greasy for me. It was like slathering whipped butter on my face. well not that bad. But it wouldn't wash off without having to use another cleanser to get it all off. so I tried this below. using coconut instead of shea and increasing the soft oils to hard a bit and increasing the ewax.  

cocoa butter  14%
coconut oil   14%
RB oil  21.5%
Sunflower oil 21%
Ewax  20%
cetyl alcohol 8%
Germaben II  0.5%
Lavender EO 1%

This was a big improvement, but still not what I was looking for. It washed off much better, but I didn't feel like I cleaned anything. It just felt like I put lotion on my face and washed it off with water, which is exactly what someone said, that this was basically a lotion recipe after you add water. That's why the recipe with liquid soap in it was appealing. But maybe I should use BTMS instead of Ewax? Or maybe polysorbate 80 would help? Does BTMS or Ewax actually clean and dissolve dirt and oil on the face? I just wanted something that felt like I actually cleaned my face and dissloved dirt and oils instead of just moisturizing. Any thoughts?


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## Nao (Jul 3, 2017)

Oh, right, I sort of remember that now.

I actually went and tried washing a small part of my face with some polysorbate 60, with comes in a paste form (at least mine did) and it feels clean and oil-free afterwords, but I don't know if that is actually something you would want to do or if there is any safety concerns to use pure polysorbate 60 that way. Polysorbate 80 is in liquid form but works pretty much the same as PS60, you can probably switch one for the other without problems. I think most prefer PS80 though. 

I'm still thinking a light water based lotion would be worth giving a try since the other test batches you have made have been oil based and a bit on the heavier side. Something like 20 or even 10% sunflower oil, since you already have that on hand, 10% emulsifier and the rest water would be a good starting point. It really does not need to be more advanced than that.

BTMS supposedly feels more on the powdery side rather than oily/greasy so that might be the best opinion, BTMS also acts as an thickener so you don't have to worry about butters and waxes and such to get the consistency you want. But I don't know how BTMS compares to PS60 or what you already have on hand.

Do I make any sense at all? I've been typing and re-typing on this for a while and is starting to get an headache, lol. 

I also have to say that it's mostly theoretically, I have made some research and bought things for lotion making but haven't had the chance  actually experiment much with it yet.


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