# A Different Word for Lard



## melonie (Nov 22, 2009)

Hi All,

I have to put the ingredients of my soaps on labels, and one of the ingredients is lard.  I'd rather not use the word lard and have been trying to come up with something with a nicer sound.  Would you please help me with this.  I'd appreciate all your help.

Thanks,

Melonie


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## donniej (Nov 22, 2009)

You could use tallow instead... It's very similar and looks better on the label.  Even better yet is vegetable shortening.


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## melonie (Nov 22, 2009)

Hi Donniej,

Thank your for your quick response.  I like the sound of the word tallow and also thought about using it.  However, doesn't tallow contain beef fat and lard contain pork fat?  If this is not going to confuse people, I'd definitely use it on my labels.  Thank you for you input.

Melonie


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## Deda (Nov 22, 2009)

donniej said:
			
		

> You could use tallow instead... It's very similar and looks better on the label.  Even better yet is vegetable shortening.



DonnieJ, are you really suggesting that Melonie lie about what's in her soap?

Lard is Lard, INCI - Lard.
Tallow is Tallow, INCI - Tallow.

2 completely different animals.  

Vegetable shortening?  You must be kidding.


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## carebear (Nov 22, 2009)

The definition of tallow varies - some references site it as simply meaning "animal fat".

But it wouldn't be fair to those keeping kosher or who have other reasons for avoiding pork products to keep that hidden.

Call it lard.  It's best to be open and honest.

Otherwise you are being neither.


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## Deda (Nov 22, 2009)

Melonie, if you don't want lard on the label, then don't use lard in your soap.

Personally I don't use animal products, but there is NOTHING wrong with lard soap. 

Use the best ingredients you can find and be proud that you've made a quality product.


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## melonie (Nov 22, 2009)

Hi Deda,

I normally made my soap with all vegetable oils also.  However, for my last two loaves of soap, I have incorporated lard into the ingredients after reading a posting on the SMF.  I really liked the way they looked and would like to sell them.  I know some people don't mind to have animal fats in their soaps, but some do.  I am not about to fool anybody with the ingredients, but just don't like the sound of the word lard.  It's not what what you say, but how you say it.  And, there must be another word for lard that has a nice sound to it.  What do you think of fatty acids?

Melonie


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## GoddessMama (Nov 22, 2009)

I think donniej was saying instead of using lard in your soaps, use tallow as it preforms similar in soap and dosen't carry the stigma that lard dose.


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## donniej (Nov 22, 2009)

I was suggesting a change of ingredients, not just the label.


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## ChrissyB (Nov 22, 2009)

The saponified form of lard is 'sodium lardate".


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## krissy (Nov 22, 2009)

melonie said:
			
		

> Hi Deda,
> 
> I normally made my soap with all vegetable oils also.  However, for my last two loaves of soap, I have incorporated lard into the ingredients after reading a posting on the SMF.  I really liked the way they looked and would like to sell them.  I know some people don't mind to have animal fats in their soaps, but some do.  I am not about to fool anybody with the ingredients, but just don't like the sound of the word lard.  It's not what what you say, but how you say it.  And, there must be another word for lard that has a nice sound to it.  *What do you think of fatty acids?
> *
> Melonie


i think it is deceptive and misleading. i use and love lard in my soaps. i label them as such. there is a few threads about this around here.


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## dagmar88 (Nov 22, 2009)

fatty acids is not the same as lard. How are people going to know it's lard when you put fatty acids on your label?
There are a lot of people who are happy eating mat, wearing leather shoes and using non vegan soap.


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## carebear (Nov 22, 2009)

donniej said:
			
		

> I was suggesting a change of ingredients, not just the label.


I should have known!  You're nothing if not open and honest!

Well, if lard doesn't rock you - try "pig fat".

I'm sorry - I understand where you are coming from but I don't think there is another way to say it.  Even the INCI for pig fat is lard.  http://www.oshun.ca/inci.html


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## dagmar88 (Nov 22, 2009)

aaahw, don't make the sad face! I'm not even allowed to sell lard/tallow soap for human use!
 and we call lard 'reuzel' and tallow 'blanc de boeuf'.


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## krissy (Nov 22, 2009)

i asked a question about using Lard and what others customers thought of it.  you might find the info/opinions useful:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/forum/vi ... highlight=


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## carebear (Nov 22, 2009)

Copying this from the other thread...


			
				honor435 said:
			
		

> I just asked 5 people if they would buy soap with lard, they all said no, hmmm.



I wonder, if shown a magnificent soap with lard on the label if they would love it, see the ingredient list, and then put it down and walk away because of the lard.


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## holly99 (Nov 22, 2009)

I would definitely love to use lard and lard soaps but due to personal reasons, I do not. The name of it certainly doesn't turn me off. To me tallow doesn't sound any more attractive. In fact, I think lard sounds better to me. But that's just my opinion.  I think the best solution is to make a collection of all veggies soaps for those who wouldn't want lard.


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## Manchy (Nov 22, 2009)

i would be beyond mad if i bought your soap saying it contains "fatty acids", and later discover it contains lard! it may be a smaller problem for you, and a type of a problem "way it sounds", but believe me, there are some people with much stronger opinion about it. my point is - list it clear black on white or don't use it.


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## Psalm 23 (Nov 22, 2009)

Could you just call it suponified fat?  (Sorry if the spelling's wrong  )


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## Lil Outlaws (Nov 22, 2009)

could you stipulate by saying "pork tallow" ? I know I've purchased tallows labeled "beef tallow, buffalo tallow, deer tallow, sheep tallow" etc. so why any different for pork?


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## xraygrl (Nov 22, 2009)

> Could you just call it suponified fat?



nope, there again you would be hiding the truth because saponified fat could be anything....beef fat, pig fat, vegetable fat. The only way to list lard is LARD. 

There are people who want to avoid certain ingredients in soap for various reasons, as stated above...religious or ethical. 

Put yourself in the customers shoes. Would you want the person you were buying from to be COMPLETELY HONEST about the ingredients they were using??? Of course you would. Especially if it was against your religion to use any products with lard in it or if you were vegetarian or vegan. 

Instead of hiding the truth try and educate your customers on the ingredients you chose. Why did you choose lard? For me it's because lard makes excellent soap with a creamy lather you just can't duplicate with veggie oils, Lard is similar in fatty acid composition to Olive, I can purchase lard locally which cuts down on costs because I don't have to pay for shipping. Just my 2 cents.


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## IrishLass (Nov 22, 2009)

I agree, honesty is the best policy, most especially when it comes to an ingredient that is considered off-limits to certain religious groups and highly offensive to many vegan/vegetarians. Heck, some people might even be allergic to it.  :shock: 

I _love_ my lard soap and actually go out of my way to *not* hide it. lol Not only is it listed on the back in my ingredients list, I also proudly state that it is made with lard right on the front of my label.  . I figure that if you really like using a certain ingredient, you should be confident of that ingredient and be ever ready to give a reason to those that ask of you why you like it so much. 

Why not formulate a 100% veggie soap to offer alongside your lard soap? That's what I do. I make a couple of 100% vegetarian formulas for those who might be offended by animal fats. So far, I haven't run across anyone who is offended by my lard soaps, but it's always good to be prepared. 

IrishLass


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## carebear (Nov 22, 2009)

Pork tallow might work.  But it sounds no better than lard and the INCI is lard.


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## Deb (Nov 22, 2009)

It's lard. the inci name is Lard. If you aren't proud of the product you produce and aren't willing to stand behind it, don't use it or don't produce it. 

Sorry if that sounds harsh but I'm a celiac - I have to put products down if they're labelled 'food starch' and it could be corn or wheat. It annoys me intensely. To be deliberately lied to? Grounds for a court case. 


You do not mess with people's health, nor people's religious beliefs. Just not done! 

So either stand behind your product as containing lard or chose a different oil/fat.


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## ChrissyB (Nov 22, 2009)

Right on Deb


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## GoddessMama (Nov 22, 2009)

Well people LOVe ivory and it has tallow in it, they label it like this sodium tallowate, sodium cocoate or sodium palm kernelate, water, sodium chloride, sodium silicate, magnesium sulfate, and fragrance.

I believe you would call the lard Sodium Lardate, as the makers of Dove, Leaver 200, and Caress do.  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:


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## carebear (Nov 23, 2009)

Kinda

But the makers of those soaps do combine the purified salts of the fatty acid (sodium tallowate, for example) in the mix to make their soap product whereas we CREATE the salts of fatty acid IN our soap.  

so their soap contains sodium tallowate and ours (assuming we use tallow) contains sodium tallowate and tallow and glycerin.

the correct way to label our soaps is by what goes in - tallow + sodium hydroxide.

or in the case of lard: sodium lardate, etc.


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## gekko62 (Nov 23, 2009)

dagmar88 said:
			
		

> aaahw, don't make the sad face! I'm not even allowed to sell lard/tallow soap for human use!



Why is that Dagmar?  :? I dont use animal fats but heavens above it's getting a bit bad when yr not even allowed to isn't it?


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## Bubbles Galore (Nov 23, 2009)

You know, there is a whole new, young generation out there that wouldn't know what Lard was, if it jumped up and bit them on the behind.    Can you guys get lard from organically raised pigs? Then you can say Organic Lard on the label and the yuppies will go nuts for it.


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## dagmar88 (Nov 23, 2009)

Well; as we can eat it/prepare food in it, but it doesn't make it through the safety assesment; I see no apperent reason but Europe likes to tell people what to do...
From what to eat and where it originates from, to what car to drive and where and when, to how to raise your children.


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## Deb (Nov 23, 2009)

Dagmar, I'm pretty certain that when we lived in holland mum still made suet pastry which definitely has suet in it...Which ok is kidney fat, but I'm pretty sure that was for sale at the time. Granted that was about 12+ years ago. Let me check with her to see where/what brands it was?


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## dagmar88 (Nov 23, 2009)

oh, it's for sale for sure; but can't be used in handmade soap.


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## carebear (Nov 23, 2009)

The rules for selling soap with animal fats in them are seriously strict in Europe - absurdly so.


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## Psalm 23 (Nov 23, 2009)

You guys are right.  So do you think it would be worth it to make vegitable and lard soaps...in case sombody was bothered by lard soap?  Or would they still just be upset that I was selling any soap with animal fat in it?


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## Manchy (Nov 23, 2009)

i'm vegetarian, and i don't mind people using animal fat in soap. after all, most people eat meat, and animal fat has to be used up too - it's certainly more ecological to use it, if you're already eating meat. of course, i wouldn't buy soap with animal fat, but would buy your soaps without animal fat - no problem.
it's just my opinion, but everyone is different..


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## holly99 (Nov 23, 2009)

It wouldn't bother me either if you made both. I would check the ingredients and if you had one with lard, I'd avoid it. If you had one without lard, I'd probably buy it.


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## honor435 (Nov 23, 2009)

Call it grandmas old fashioned lard soap, the older people may like it? I dont sell my lard soaps, one of my selling pts is: my soap doesnt have lard like most store bought soaps do. I think you have to be honest. Veg shortening is soybean- not lard.


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## beerfish (Nov 23, 2009)

They don't hide it!


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## mariflo (Nov 23, 2009)

How about "rendered pork fat" , "bacon fat" or "lardum" (lard in Latin)


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## gekko62 (Nov 23, 2009)

I really think the only people you're going to have a problem with are the ones that have problems with everything.No amount of explaining changes some peoples minds. You say lard it's eww animal fat.You say palm they say orangutan killer! silk you're a cruel insect murderer. 
I say be loud be proud.If you think your soap is great then others will too!  :wink:


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## krissy (Nov 23, 2009)

how about using ingredients you are proud of. educate yourself and others about the wonderful qualities that your soap will have using lard, coconut oil,palm or whatever.  if you like the way that your soap comes out with lard, the be proud of the fact you were able to make such a great product with something so many don't even realize is wonderful. if you plan on selling online, then leave room on your page to "state your case" about your use of lard. the same goes if you have a pamphlet. educate your customers. maybe not all of them will feel the same way you feel about a soap but maybe most will.


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## NatureandNurture (Nov 23, 2009)

How about rendered porcine byproduct.  I'm kidding btw, I use it and just call it lard.  If you're really worried about it, why not offer both kinds of soap, with and without lard.


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## melonie (Nov 24, 2009)

Hello Everyone,

I just checked in and wow!  I couldn't believe the number of postings.  Thank you so much for all your help, and this thread really confirms my concern - lots of people out there don't really care for lard.  I would still keep on making lard soaps, but more for home use.  This would make things less complicated when it comes to marketing my products.

Have a wonderful day,

Melonie


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## Manchy (Nov 25, 2009)

gekko62 said:
			
		

> I really think the only people you're going to have a problem with are the ones that have problems with everything.No amount of explaining changes some peoples minds. You say lard it's eww animal fat.You say palm they say orangutan killer! silk you're a cruel insect murderer.
> I say be loud be proud.If you think your soap is great then others will too!  :wink:



i think you're missing the point. in all those things you mentioned the principle is the same. it's not that "those people have a problem", they just have a principle of what they'll use in their cosmetics, and won't use products that brake them.

but your point is ok - everyone creates their own attitudes and standards, and should stand behind them, especially if you're selling it..

my point - it really doesn't matter does your soap contain lard or not, what is important is that you do what you believe is right, and stand behind your decisions.


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## dagmar88 (Nov 25, 2009)

@ Gekko
You should just respect other peoples wishes; it is their choice how they want to live their lifes. _Explain to a vegan hoe good eggs are for you, or to a Jew how delicious pork sandwitches are, and you think they'll start eating them?_  :wink: 
For a lot of people lard is not just animal fat; it is fat of a pig, and pigs are seen as unclean in some relegions. In other religions tallow would be seen as unclean.
Some people might like to go without meat or/and animal by products.
Some people might not want to use palm, other do not want to use soy.
And for your information, Tussah silk is cruelty free   

That doesn't mean someone from one of these groups has problems with everything. Or that these people have to be a problem. State clearly what you use to produce your product and design the right product for your target market.


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## gekko62 (Nov 25, 2009)

dagmar88 said:
			
		

> @ Gekko
> You should just respect other peoples wishes; it is their choice how they want to live their lifes. _Explain to a vegan hoe good eggs are for you, or to a Jew how delicious pork sandwitches are, and you think they'll start eating them?_  :wink:
> For a lot of people lard is not just animal fat; it is fat of a pig, and pigs are seen as unclean in some relegions. In other religions tallow would be seen as unclean.
> Some people might like to go without meat or/and animal by products.
> ...



Dagmar,I only meant some people object for the sake of it.They get a mind set where nothings going to change it. Palm will always be destroying orang habitat even if you explain you only use rto palm, I know Tussah is cruelty free,that's what I use,& have had people objecting strenuously anyway saying it kills silkworms. I don't use lard,that's a personal choice,but I 100% support anyone who does.Live and let live.If you use lard in your soap then be proud you use lard in your soap. I think that if you  label clearly,& are open & honest about what you use that is all you can do.


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