# Mixing Essential and Fragrance Oils Together?



## BayBoy

Hi,

So I'm still working on a blend of essential oils for an aftershave similar to bay rum. I've come up with a recipe that I really like, but it needs vanilla to round it out. 

Is it considered strange to mix fragrance oil with an EO blend? Do they even blend? I ask because vanilla absolute and the like is so expensive.


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## Obsidian

They blend just fine and no, its not considered strange. I have a lovely citrus mint blend that has EO and FO.


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## DeeAnna

EOs should never have synthetic fragrances in them, but FOs may contain essential oils. Here are some examples: http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/fragrance-oils/fragrance-essential-oil-blends.aspx


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## IrishLass

As Obsidian said, no- it's not strange at all, and yes- they blend fine. My favorite homemade bay rum formula is a mixture of bay racemosa EO and Barbershop 1920's FO. I make other FO/EO blends, too, such as vanilla-mint for example (vanilla FO with spearmint EO).


IrishLass


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## Saranac

Most of my fragrance blends are a mix of EO and FO.  I like the idea of EO, but they aren't as well-rounded as FOs.  I'm not a perfumer and I find it difficult to formulate a nice, well-rounded EO blend.

There's also price.  In my area, Balsam is a big seller, but it's expensive and doesn't stick in CP soap.  So I blend it with a cheaper FO and am able to put balsam EO on my labels.


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## Zany_in_CO

For EO blends, I sub Sandlewood EO, Rose otto, Vanilla absolute with their FO counterparts because they are expensive. For me, this is where top quality FOs from reputable suppliers comes into play. I've been happy with results. One thing I've noticed, tho. It often takes time for blends to mellow... like fine wine... allowed to age they peak down the road a few months... I recently soaped a blend that was a year old. I didn't care for it at that time, but it smells wonderful now and is strong in the soap.


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## mistral

Zany_in_CO said:


> For EO blends, I sub Sandlewood EO, Rose otto, Vanilla absolute with their FO counterparts because they are expensive. For me, this is where top quality FOs from reputable suppliers comes into play. I've been happy with results. One thing I've noticed, tho. It often takes time for blends to mellow... like fine wine... allowed to age they peak down the road a few months... I recently soaped a blend that was a year old. I didn't care for it at that time, but it smells wonderful now and is strong in the soap.



May I ask where you got your Rose Otto FO?


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## Zany_in_CO

mistral said:


> May I ask where you got your Rose Otto FO?


It's been a while -- I'd have to start with a search at Fragrance Finder, and go from there... Here's a link:

http://www.fragranceoilfinder.com/catalog/index.php

Just type "rose" in the search box and see what comes up that sounds like something that might work for you...


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## WeaversPort

Zany_in_CO said:


> For EO blends, I sub Sandlewood EO, Rose otto, Vanilla absolute with their FO counterparts because they are expensive. For me, this is where top quality FOs from reputable suppliers comes into play. I've been happy with results. One thing I've noticed, tho. It often takes time for blends to mellow... like fine wine... allowed to age they peak down the road a few months... I recently soaped a blend that was a year old. I didn't care for it at that time, but it smells wonderful now and is strong in the soap.



I also swap expensive EOs with their FO counterparts. I have a Sandalwood, Vanilla, Lavender, and Sage blend where the Sandalwood and Vanilla are FOs. 

Plus using FOs is a way to get around essential oils that might seize on you in soap - like clove. Or could be phototoxic if left on the skin - like most citrus.


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## anshika154

I Think it would help you easy nine steps  

http://www.growingupherbal.com/blending-essential-oils-for-beginners/


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## Soapstars

Hi there, I have a base recipe that calls for 31g of fragrance. But I am wondering, is that the same quantity whether it is essential oil or fragrance oil? Or because EO's can be powerful is it a different quantity for different ones etc? I know safety is important but the bottles of Eo say 5 drops in a bath and I want to know how much to put in 1kg of cold process soap really. Anyone help please?


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## Susie

Whomever you purchased the EO or FO through should have some safe use recommendations available on the website.  Different EOs and FOs have different safe usage rates for various products.


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## dixiedragon

The Sage (www.thesage.com) and Brambleberry have fragrance calculators. You put in the essential oil or the fragrance, what you are making and how much and it will tell you how much fragrance to use. I admit, if I have (for example) Dragon's Blood from another vendor, I'll use the BB calculator to figure out how much to use.


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## lsg

I use sandalwood FO in some of my essential oil blends and it works well for that.


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## Soapstars

Hi dixiedragon, I tried the BB fragrance calc on occasions but they don't have the same ones I have and each oil might have a different strength of Eo and carrier oil in it mightn't it anyway? It seems hard to nail quantities. I contacted the supplier who just said follow a recipe.

Anyone know what the IFRA class is for cold process soaps please?


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## shunt2011

Soapstars said:


> Hi dixiedragon, I tried the BB fragrance calc on occasions but they don't have the same ones I have and each oil might have a different strength of Eo and carrier oil in it mightn't it anyway? It seems hard to nail quantities. I contacted the supplier who just said follow a recipe.
> 
> Anyone know what the IFRA class is for cold process soaps please?


 
if you are using EO/FO from a reputable company there shouldn't be any carrier oils added. 

If the company you are dealing with does not provide the IFRA usage rates I would find somewhere else to do business with.

The IFRA class is 9 for soap.


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## DeeAnna

IFRA Category 9:  Bar soap, bath gels, foams, mousses, salts, oils & other products added to bathwater, body washes, conditioner (rinse off), face cleansers, liquid soap, shampoo of all types, shaving creams of all types, aerosol air freshener sprays


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## Saranac

Susie said:


> Whomever you purchased the EO or FO through should have some safe use recommendations available on the website.  Different EOs and FOs have different safe usage rates for various products.



I recently placed an ordered with a "reputable company."  After receiving my order, it took 2 weeks to get a reply from them about usage rates. . . .


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## cmzaha

IFRA is great but fragrance manufacturers are not required to have all or any fragrances tested by them. It is a self regulating organization in the fragrance industry. I am not one to refuse to use a fragrance because it does not have an IFRA rating, but then I can be a bit of a rebel...I do use common sense and do not take a spicy or other irritating fragrance and use it at my normal 6-7%.


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## Soapstars

Just looking at IFRA category 9, there is A @ 20%, B at 40% and C at 40% and the recipe I use calls for 31g which is 3.1% of the oils in the recipe. Does this sound right please?


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## shunt2011

Soapstars said:


> Just looking at IFRA category 9, there is A @ 20%, B at 40% and C at 40% and the recipe I use calls for 31g which is 3.1% of the oils in the recipe. Does this sound right please?


 
What essential oils are you using?   There are some that can't be used at more than 1-2% but generally 3.1% should be fine for the most commonly used.


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## Soapstars

I am deciding which ones to use regularly but I have rosemary, lemongrass, clary sage, bergamot, lavender, tea tree, geranium. I only used 2 teaspoons of the lemongrass in 1200g of soap and it was really strong! How do I know which can only be used at 1-2% though?

If I use 31g of chamomile Eo in my 1kg soap recipe that costs about £60! What do you all do? Is fragrance oil just as good?


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## shunt2011

Lemongrass is pretty strong.  I use at at 3-4% in 6 lbs of soap.  I measure everything by weight in grams.   Again you need to check usage rate recommendations for the individual oils.   It will also depend if you are getting pure EO's or diluted in a carrier oil.   Again, purchasing from reputable companies comes into play.   Sorry, I don't use a lot of EO's I prefer FO's in many cases.


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## WeaversPort

Soapstars said:


> I am deciding which ones to use regularly but I have rosemary, lemongrass, clary sage, bergamot, lavender, tea tree, geranium. I only used 2 teaspoons of the lemongrass in 1200g of soap and it was really strong! How do I know which can only be used at 1-2% though?
> 
> If I use 31g of chamomile Eo in my 1kg soap recipe that costs about £60! What do you all do? Is fragrance oil just as good?



This is pretty much exactly why I use fragrance oils. When dealing with a good vendor it's much easier to at least get a range on the usage rate. 

I'd probably go about it like this:

1) identify which ones have the biggest chance of causing skin sensitivities and use the least of those. (e.g. Cinnamon, black pepper, etc.)

2) start testing small sample batches at 1%, 2%, and 3% and note how they react individually. You can use small paper cups and do a 27g pour at a 1% EO usage and use far less essential oil than if you do 1lb. Then you can see which ones accelerate, which ones are strong enough at 1%, which ones discolor, and which ones hold up to the soaping process and 4-8 week cure. 

You can do step 2 for your personal blends as well. Then you'll know if geranium and chamomile hold up individually vs together... Things like that.


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## Soapstars

Thank you Weaversport. It sounds like a lengthy process and I am like a cat on hot bricks! Can't wait to nail my recipes and start selling to friends : ) 

I have made about 8kg of soap in different fragrances, oils and EO's over the last 3 months but the more i find out the less simple it all seems:???:


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## WeaversPort

Soapstars said:


> Thank you Weaversport. It sounds like a lengthy process and I am like a cat on hot bricks! Can't wait to nail my recipes and start selling to friends : )
> 
> I have made about 8kg of soap in different fragrances, oils and EO's over the last 3 months but the more i find out the less simple it all seems:???:



*grins* unfortunately it is a lengthy process. Right now my curing box is almost entirely full of 25g soap samples testing different fragrance oils. I have some going on 8 weeks cure and some on 3 weeks cure. I figure it would suck to sell a bunch of soap and not realize that in two months all the scent had faded. Plus out of the bottle some fragrances smell horrible, but once in soap have become quite pleasant. 

Then there is the whole design aspect, if you enjoy doing swirls. Do they discolor? Seize? I have a Flying Fox fragrance from Nurture Soap that I love, but it's a real stinker when it comes to speed. I could barely get the time to finish stirring it into the sample cup. I also have some wonderful vanilla blends that look like caramel fudge once they finish discoloration. 

It's kind of like nice wine or whisky. Each different grain or grape blend adds something different to the finished product. Over time you learn what works best.


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## Soapstars

Just came across this information on a soap studio website:

"Essential oils are typically added to soap at a rate of .5-1 oz. per pound of oils (or 30-60 grams), but for certain essential oils, such as cinnamon or clove, this usage rate is higher than the recommend usage amount per IFRA."

I think that is wrong as .5 of an oz is not 30g is it. Anyone know what the usual percentage rate is for the normal EO's please? My recipe calls for 31g of fragrance in 1000g of soap so 3.1%. Is that the same whether it is EO or FO please?

Thanks for your help.


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## Zany_in_CO

Soapstars said:


> "Essential oils are typically added to soap at a rate of .5-1 oz. per pound of oils (or 30-60 grams), but for certain essential oils, such as cinnamon or clove, this usage rate is higher than the recommend usage amount per IFRA."


With essential oils it's best to follow IFRA guidelines.  ETA: Cinnamon & clove are known "heaters" and can play havoc with  your soap batch. They are also sensitizers. Use with a light touch.  Here's what I do: Mix 1 part Clove Bud EO + 3 parts Cinnamon Bark EO and  store it in an amber brown bottle until needed. Then add 1 part of this  to a blend. 


Soapstars said:


> I think that is wrong as .5 of an oz is not 30g is it.


Correct.


Soapstars said:


> Anyone know what the usual percentage rate is for the normal EO's please?


Unfortunately, there is no "normal" % for EOs. We really need to take good care when using them. That being said, I use MMS (Majestic Mountain Sage) Fragrance Calculator to determine the amount to use. They have reliable use rates for most bath & body applications. Here's a link:

https://www.thesage.com/calcs/FragCalc.html



Soapstars said:


> My recipe calls for 31g of fragrance in 1000g of soap so 3.1%. Is that the same whether it is EO or FO please?


No. With EOs, the fragrance rate varies; with FOs I normally use 0.85 oz PPO and adjust up or down depending on the strength of the scent.

HTH   :bunny:​


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## maxine289

My question isn't really about whether you can mix EO and FO. It's about the percentage that can be used. I sometimes purchase FO from Lonestar Candle Making and their bottles have the IRFA categories listed, including Category 9. The usage rate is stated as a percentage. My question is, a percentage of what? The total weight of the batch, which would include water/liquid, lye and oils, or the total weight of oils in the recipe? So, for a FO that said Category 9 usage was 11%, and I was making a batch that will weigh 46 oz. (total weight of liquid, oil and lye), would the amount of FO I could use be 11% of 46 oz, which would be 5.06 oz? I probably would not use that much, but based on the Category 9 usage %, I could do so safely. Is this correct? Or should I be calculating the usage percentage differently or based on something else?


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## jewels621

It might be best to start a new thread in the fragrance category, but I'll answer here. I base my fragrance on PPO. The IFRA number is the max percentage you can use for it to still be skin safe, but rarely do I ever use more than 5%.....some even less because of the strength. You don't have to use the skin safe percentage rate.....some are 100%! Play around with it a little bit and decide, based on your own nose, how much fragrance your soap needs. Keep good notes!

ETA: There are fragrance calculators out there if you need some kind of reference to start.....I know Brambleberry and The Sage both have them on their websites.


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## DeeAnna

To calculate the fragrance weight for lotions and most other products, most people base their calculations on the total batch weight. Most soapers don't do that -- they base their fragrance amounts on just the total oil weight for soap. I suppose it's done that way to be more consistent with the way other additives are used. 

I calculate the fragrance weight based on 90% of the total batch weight. I estimate there is 10% loss in bar weight during cure. I want the dosage to be correct in the cured soap, not the soap fresh out of the mold.

If the IRFA max is 11%, then theoretically you could use 11% of the FO based on total batch weight. What is theoretically possible and what's realistically sensible are two different things. I can tell you from personal experience that once you go above 5-6% fragrance, you run a good risk of the soap separating in the mold and/or the fragrance weeping out of the finished soap. My rule of thumb now is if 5% to 6% is not enough scent, I need to find another scent that smells stronger and lasts longer rather than continue to increase the dosage.

I agree with Jewels -- You'll get more responses to your questions if you start a new thread.


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## Larkfitz64

Hello,
My husband and I are somewhat new to making CP soap and are really enjoying doing it together.  We have several FOs from BB that we love.  I would like to make 32oz of CP soap using a combination of Leather FO, Patchouli FO and Lavender 40/42 EO.  I am not sure where to begin to combine them.  I am thinking .5oz Leather, .5oz Patchouli and .25oz Lavender.   None of these are said to work well in CP but since we do it in tandem we are able to move quickly so have not had any issues using them separately. I would love you opinion on what ratios you feel would smell nice.   I don't want one to over power the other, therefore loosing the scent of the other(s).

Please give me your thoughts on the ratios i have listed as I do not have a clue about Top Notes, etc.

Thank you,
Lark Fitzgerald
Larksdesignhouse.com


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