# Just started a site, would like some peer review.



## jcw4815 (Feb 19, 2012)

Hey everybody! I just started my site, well a couple of months ago and just recently had time to start doing some real work on it. I know I have a long way to go and would really appreciate some peer review of the blog and store. 
http://www.lyesoapstore.com


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## xyxoxy (Feb 26, 2012)

OK... here goes.

The good:
 - The site has some flashy widgets that are not overdone and which give it a more professional look. 
 - The color scheme is nice and not offensive which is a plus as some people make the mistake of thinking that using all of the crayons in the box somehow makes it better. You could even add a bit more color if you wanted to... perhaps in your logo. 
 - Its nice to see a blog and not just a store. Makes you more approachable.

The not so good:
 - First thing I noticed is that the logo on your blog is large and distorted. I'm using Chrome as my browser and did not test others to see if the same is true there, but it would not hurt to check your site from multiple browsers and/or fix your logo image. It's quite distracting.
 - The widget that scrolls your recent posts moves far too quickly to read it. It took me a while to even realize that's what it was. Since they move by too quickly to read them it is effectively useless.
 - Probably the biggest issue I have is the content in your blog and your online store. Frankly it doesn't convince me that you are an authority on the subject. It is very general and in some cases misinformed. I get the feeling that some of it has been copied from other sources (maybe SMF?) without really understanding it fully. Looking at some of your "how to" posts I have to wonder how long you have actually been making soap and if you are actually experienced enough to be selling. Please don't take that as an attack. That's just how it reads. You also have several spelling and grammatical issues which do not help.
 - There is no "About Us" or "About Me" link on the site. If I'm going to buy pretty much ANY hand made product I want to know something about the person who made it. In this case I'd like to know something about your soaping philosophy, your experience etc. This also factors into the trust aspect.
 - You will also find that most people (myself included) would NEVER buy a body product that does not list the ingredients. As a soaper I know that soap making requires lye, but simply calling a product "handmade lye soap" or "olive oil lye soap" is not enough information. And for non-soapers who view your site, the "L" word can work against you if you don't take time to explain it a bit.

It's a good start but as you say, you still have some work to do.

I hope this helps.


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## carebear (Feb 26, 2012)

STOP RIGHT THERE!!!  SERIOUSLY!!!

DO.NOT.MAKE.LYE.SOLUTION.IN.PYREX.  It's dangerous!!!  And your writeup is a teaching one, of sorts.  SERIOUSLY DON'T DO IT, AND DON'T TEACH ANYONE ELSE TO.

A few questions:  How long have you been making soap?  How many batches, about, would you say you've made?  How long do you cure your soaps?


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## xyxoxy (Feb 26, 2012)

carebear said:
			
		

> ...  How long do you cure your soaps?



That was just one of the many things that jumped out at me. According to the CP recipe in one of the blog posts "The soap is ready to use in about 3 days".
Not in MY soaping universe. And I would never use wooden spoons with lye. And there is more but I think that's enough to stop and ask the question... "should you really be selling your soap to the public".


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## jcw4815 (Feb 26, 2012)

*Responses to reviews.*

Thanks for taking the time to review my site! I found most of the responses very helpful and informative (almost). To answer some of the questions presented, I've been making soap for a little over a year 2-3 batches a month, sometimes more if time and money for materials is available. 
About curing: How long should it cure? Many sources claim that the soap is safe after 24 hours. 
Honestly, I do feel "attacked" somewhat by the comment that I have plagiarized materials from this site. This really is a documentation of my steps for making soap. 
I would like to hear more about the problems with using pyrex? Why? I know that some have said to use plastic, and some have said to use pyrex. I know that it can fracture if damaged, is that what you mean?
Lastly, if this is how I will be viewed by peers then I am pulling the sites tonight.
Thanks again, for being honest.


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## sosocal (Feb 26, 2012)

I can see you put a lot of work and love in to your site. Spend a bit of time going through old threads on this forum and you will see members here are quite passionate when it comes to sellers selling before they may be ready or people giving misinformation (even if unintentionally). There are a lot of people who come and want to start a SM business without proper knowledge and experience and it can be hard to differentiate the well meaning from the not. I just want to let you know to try and not take it personally, they really know their stuff and although it may be hurtful to read, they only have your customer's best interests in mind. I hope you wont be dismayed from staying around and learning from the people here, you will benefit greatly. I am a new soapmaker myself, so I am not going to give advice on your site, but just wanted to to send you a cyber "there there (" ,)" and encourage you to read back on the forums and see why some of these things are such sensitive issues. 

P.S.
Glass containers (pyrex, anchor, etc) have been known to shatter/explode, putting you at great risk. #5 plastic is great to use.

Good luck


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## Hazel (Feb 26, 2012)

*Re: Responses to reviews.*



			
				jcw4815 said:
			
		

> About curing: How long should it cure? *Many sources claim that the soap is safe after 24 hours.*



I would be very careful about following any information coming from a source that _*only *_says soap is safe after 24 hours. I've had batches that still had active lye in them for 2-3 days. One batch was still zapping me on the fifth day after pouring it. Of course, these were batches wihich I had put in the frig to prevent gelling. However, all my gelled batches were completely saponifed within 24 hours.

Also, the source should also mention that even though soap is safe to use after it's finished zapping it still isn't the best it will be until after several weeks of curing. Plus the soap will still be soft and melt away fairly quickly. Most sources I've read have stated 4 weeks is the minimal curing time to allow for water evaporation and the soap to become milder. The longer the cure, the better the soap becomes. I generally cure my soaps about 6 weeks but some I let cure for several months. It depends on what type of soap I've made - regular, salt, bastile, etc. The bars last longer, the soap is milder and the lather becomes much better after a long cure.

I'm curious about what the sources were where you found this information.


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## krissy (Feb 26, 2012)

i agree with the others that pyrex is very unsafe for soap making, that soap is not at its best after only 24 hours and many of the other things that have been posted already. 

on your blog you say regarding colors in soap 





> However, the information I’ve uncovered is enough to make chills race up your spine....<snip>...
> What? It’s only touching us… it will rinse off? Surely you don’t believe that. Have you ever used a pain relieving muscle rub, a nicotine patch, or a self tanner? Perhaps recently, you’ve used a mentholated chest rub to relieve coughing or ease breathing. These things sink in, with no real filter.


 then you go on to list a bunch of nasty side effects from ingesting food coloring.  it seems you are implying that using any color other than "natural" could aslo give you these reactions, and that you are implying that the 5 or 6 drops of color in a 2# batch of soap are being absorbed into the users skin. that is highly unlikely and seems like nonsense. the things that you listed as an example are all things you _slather on and keep on_ the body with the intent of it doing something for your body. soap rinses off as soon as it is put on and does not get slathered on and left on until it absorbs into your skin.
also if you are going to make a claim that is meant to be a scare tactic as to why colorants are bad, it would be helpful if you gave some of your resources so that others can either understand where you are coming from or form their own opinions.


ETA- according to the FDA your web site is considered part of the labeling! it's called collateral labeling. so you have to be careful what you say there re: claims. AND TESTIMONIALS COUNT TOO!! 

if you dont intend your website or products to be labeled as a drug or cosmetic, you might want to watch all the claims about acne etc on your site.


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## xyxoxy (Feb 27, 2012)

I really didn't mean to imply that you plagiarized the content. It's just that your posts contained lots of information... some good and some kinda wrong. I guess the inconsistency was a bit suspicious. That and the fact that you are so new to the forum. And I've seen plenty of sites that harvest information from online forums just so they can sell advertising etc. But that's not what's going on here.

What I think is going on is that you found out how much fun it is to make soap and you just ran with it. Nothing wrong with enthusiasm. But just be sure you have walking down before you start to run. Sharing soap recipes is not quite the same as sharing cookie recipes and bad information, even with good intentions, can get people hurt.

Here is a thread that addresses this issue pretty well.
http://soapmakingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17621

A couple of notes that you can find more about using the forum search feature:
 - CP soap (which you are making) should have 4-6 weeks to cure. More is better. It's really not even safe to use for at least a few days.
 - HP soap CAN usually be safe to use within 24 hours... but it still benefits from a longer cure. (Your posted recipe is NOT HP)
 - Pyrex and other glass can become etched by repeated lye use and sooner or later will break.
 - Wooden spoons should not be used for lye and raw soap. They can break down and end up in your soap.
 - Your posted recipe uses a 50% lye solution. This is not unheard of but it's uncommon and usually only done by experienced soapers in specific situations.
 - Failing to insulate your soap will not ruin the batch. You could get partial gel but it is still perfectly usable soap. Many people like myself prefer not to insulate but instead refrigerate the soap to prevent gel. It's just a matter of personal preference.

These are just a few of the things that stand out to me and made me ask the questions I did. And again I hope you read these comments in the spirit that they are meant. We really are a friendly group here and we want everyone to enjoy this wonderful soapy world as safely as possible and with the best information possible.


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## IrishLass (Feb 27, 2012)

Unless I have blinders on, it looks like you have made some changes, for I didn't see pyrex mentioned. That's good that it's not mentioned anymore. 
Pyrex is not good to mix caustic solutions in such as lye solution because of the etching issue. And when you combine the etching issue with the sudden high heat issue which comes part and parcel with mixing lye solutions, you've got an explosive situation just waiting to happen. What happens is that over time, lye solution will etch the glass (even Pyrex), causing it to get weaker and weaker until one day (and you won't know the exact day that will be)- KABLOOIE!- shattered glass everywhere when you go to mix your lye solution in it. It's happened to many soapers. I often say soaping with glass is like playing Russian Roulette. Plastic is much safer, but even with plastics you need to be careful because not all of them are lye compatible. PP#5 plastic is the one most soapers use. 

As for the best time to start using soap...... Like Hazel pointed out- soap is perfectly safe to use the moment it ceases to zap, *but* 'safe' does not necessarily equal 'best time to start using'. The longer you let it cure, the harder and milder it will get, the longer it will last, and the more the soap's lathering abilities will improve to the best they can be according to what was built into the formula. I really like what xyxoxy said in regards to 3-day old soap: "Not in MY soaping universe." I must say that heartily concur 100%.   Mine don't leave my curing racks until they have cured _at least _4 weeks. 

Regarding the colorants- you must've taken those down? I didn't see comments regarding colorants (unless I'm looking in the wrong place?). In any case, the quote that Krissy snipped from your site included some oft-repeated but misinformed scare tactics in there, so it's good if they have been removed. Not everything gets absorbed by the skin. The skin actually does a pretty good job of keeping most things out. Things like the nicotine patches that you mentioned actually have to be specially designed just so that they _can_ be absorbed.

Other than that, there are some typos that need to be fixed, and I agree with xyxoxy in regards to the widget thing that scrolls (it scrolls too fast).

In regard to how much soaping time and experience you have under your belt.... this is really the crux of the matter because handmade soap is one of those quirky products that gets better with time and doesn't take very kindly to being rushed. It's also quirky in that potential problems such as DOS (the bane of every soapmaker), doesn't show up until a few months after unmolding (or even later) if it is going to show up at all. Plus there are the issues of scent-fading and discoloration as the weeks and months pass by. The more batches and more time you have under your belt with experimentation and testing, the better. That cannot be stressed highly enough. Too many people make the mistake of rushing right into selling their soap and it ends up biting them in the rear because they didn't take the time to know how well their soap would stand up to time, and/or they didn't take the time to research the craft as thoroughly as they should and as a result they are now stymied for answers when things go wrong with a soap they sold and a customer calls complaining, etc...

Here is a very thought provoking post to read to gauge if one is ready to sell soap.We encourage all our members to read it before deciding to sell:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/forum/vi ... hp?t=17621



IrishLass


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## EnchantedSoaps (Mar 10, 2012)

lye can make pyrex and other glass stuff explode and if you are standing nearby that isn't a good thing!


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## cissy (Mar 14, 2012)

*Pyrex---help*



			
				carebear said:
			
		

> STOP RIGHT THERE!!!  SERIOUSLY!!!
> 
> DO.NOT.MAKE.LYE.SOLUTION.IN.PYREX.  It's dangerous!!!  And your writeup is a teaching one, of sorts.  SERIOUSLY DON'T DO IT, AND DON'T TEACH ANYONE ELSE TO.
> 
> A few questions:  How long have you been making soap?  How many batches, about, would you say you've made?  How long do you cure your soaps?



Your not suppose to use pyrex? I'm new to this forum and have been using pyrex for years. Help if I'm not suppose to


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## xyxoxy (Mar 14, 2012)

Hi Cissy and welcome to the forum.

No unfortunately Pyrex is not as safe as most people think. There are lots of posts about it on this forum including this one and lots of horror stories that end in broken glass and lye spills. Stick with Stainless Steel or HDPE plastic or one of the other plastics designed for high heat and caustic substances.


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## IrishLass (Mar 14, 2012)

Welcome cissy!   

Yes- definitely stay away from mixing lye solution in Pyrex. Although you may have used it for mixing lye solution for a period of a time without incident, it's an accident waiting to happen.

Studies have shown that with repeated use over time, lye reacts with glass, chemically etching it. It's a slow process, but it happens nonetheless. Once the tiny etches have formed, the sodium hydroxide particles can get trapped/wedged in those etches and remain even after washing where it then reacts with moisture in the air and starts little reactions that cause the etches to form micro-cracks that are nearly invisible, but can be seen most clearly under a microscope. Over time the trapped sodium hydroxide combines itself with the glass, slowly forming sodium silicate, which slowly compromises the integrity of the glass even more until one day, KABOOM!- your Pyrex container shatters as you are mixing lye solution, spewing glass and caustic solution everywhere. It's happend to enough soapers that we strongly advise against it's use as a mixing vessel for lye. The safer alternatives for mixing lye solution are quality 18/8 or 18/10 stainless steel, PP #5 plastic, and HDPE plastic.


IrishLass


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2012)

I am very impressed with your site and the photography.  A friend of mine is going to provide me with a website w/ shopping cart and all that jazz and I would be super pleased if it came out anywhere near what yours looks like.  I'm getting started selling too, everybody loves my soap and so what if it burned holes in their pants.

Don't let anyone discourage you.  It all comes down to money.  They are not really worried about your safety or anyone elses when they go on rants about the technique you are using; many of them are just parroting and don't really understand what they're ranting about anyways.  They are worried you're going to eventually hurt their business in some way.  Thats why theres all the ppl sitting in towers.  Take it as a compliment, the bashing is cause they're threatened.


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## Hazel (Apr 19, 2012)

bashfulbyte said:
			
		

> Get off this person's back. There is no hard and fast rule for when someone is "ready to sell soap". Just because their beliefs or technique is different than yours does not mean you need to bash them. Why does everybody think they need to be the soap police? The only way to learn is to do it, and who cares if you want to sell a few bars to see if you can? We are all adults and can make our own decisions to sell or not to sell, to purchase or not to purchase. There are much more dangerous things than lye and many of "seasoned soaper snobs" are stuffing their products full of them. I have been bashed too for mentioning that chemicals can absorb through your skin, but oh god its blashphemy, wrong, and "completely untrue" if it goes agains the way some soap snob likes to do things.
> 
> P.S. I am right about crap going through your skin and entering the blood. There are some things that do it so fast you won't have time to pour something on it. Look. It. Up. Everybody that works in science and chemistry knows this..



Whoa! What brought this on that you'd bring up a post that was started 2 months ago?  Plus, the last reply was over a month ago.  

jcw4815 asked for a peer review of her site. This is what she received and I don't think any of the comments were hateful or rude. I thought the replies from the members were thoughtful and helpful.  xyxoxy was giving her opinion about the content of the site and not accusing jcw4815 of anything.

IMO, if you can't take constructive criticism, then don't ask for it. Plus if you want to sell product which you don't know will hold up over time (scent fading or morphing, rancidity), then the" soap snobs" here aren't going to stop you. But you're really only hurting yourself if you're selling from your first few batches and they don't hold up over time. We only recommend testing over time so a soaper will know she is selling the best quality soap she can create. You may be able to sell some soap but if it doesn't hold up over time, customers won't return to buy more. Quality soap & products is what keeps customers returning to buy and that's how you build a business. 

Plus, what chemicals are you talking about that will absorb through skin and enter the blood? It's been quite awhile since I studied esthetics and the ingredients used in cosmetics and soaps. I would certainly like to know what "seasoned soaper snobs" are stuffing into their products which would make them so hazardous.

I was quite surprised when I went back to the topic and saw you had replaced the first message I quoted above with the one below.



			
				bashfulbyte said:
			
		

> I am very impressed with your site and the photography.  A friend of mine is going to provide me with a website w/ shopping cart and all that jazz and I would be super pleased if it came out anywhere near what yours looks like.  I'm getting started selling too, everybody loves my soap and so what if it burned holes in their pants.
> 
> Don't let anyone discourage you.  It all comes down to money.  They are not really worried about your safety or anyone elses when they go on rants about the technique you are using; many of them are just parroting and don't really understand what they're ranting about anyways.  They are worried you're going to eventually hurt their business in some way.  Thats why theres all the ppl sitting in towers.  Take it as a compliment, the bashing is cause they're threatened.



I seriously doubt any of the members who replied felt threatened or felt their business would be hurt by someone else. However, your replies come across as defensive, disrespectful and antagonistic towards SMF members and standards. 



			
				bashfulbyte said:
			
		

> I'm getting started selling too, everybody loves my soap and _*so what if it burned holes in their pants*_.



What?  :shock: 



			
				bashfulbyte said:
			
		

> They are not really worried about your safety or anyone elses when they go on rants about the technique you are using; many of them are just parroting and don't really understand what they're ranting about anyways. .



If we weren't worried about safety, we wouldn't waste our time writing about it over and over...ad nauseam. Plus if you would read previous posts by these members, you would find they're not "parroting" and they do understand what they're talking about. They understand because they base their replies on long term experiences with soap and product making.

Obviously, you're unhappy with members and the safety/quality standards we try to uphold on this forum. If you don't like this forum and its members, there are numerous other forums which you might find more congenial.


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## Relle (Apr 19, 2012)

I'm with you Hazel   .


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## IrishLass (Apr 19, 2012)

Well said, Hazel!

IrishLass


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## carebear (Apr 19, 2012)

Am locking this thread. love to take up the discussion again in another if all members can behave themselves. 

I'm stunned.


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