# CPOP or naw?



## nogud247 (Aug 6, 2015)

Is there any reason I cannot CPOP a soap that's 80% OO and 20% CO? I have read that CO gets hot fast so I don't want a volcano or anything. It's my first soap ever but I ran the numbers through soapcalc and bramble berrys calc and it seems sound.


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## shunt2011 (Aug 6, 2015)

You can most certainly CPOP. You shouldn't have a problem with 20% CO. It's when you have 100% CO that can be an issue. Many CPOP, however, I've never had any luck with it personally. I ended up with issues no matter how I tried. So, I just insulate and let it go. Also, with 80% Olive you will need to give your soap a good long cure.   If you have palm/lard available I would add a higher amount of those and drop your OO to 30% or so. You will get a nice hard creamy bar of soap.  High OO can give a bit of a slimy feel sometimes.  

Welcome to the forum! You may want to pop in to the introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself.


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## Susie (Aug 6, 2015)

I never CPOP, I have issues every time.  I have just given up on the whole concept.  However, if you are thinking that you can skip cure by doing CPOP or HP, you can't.  You still need 4-6 weeks cure for most soaps, and probably 4 months minimum for a soap that high in OO.


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## nogud247 (Aug 6, 2015)

Thank you for the prompt replies. I am not trying to avoid a cure so much as assure gel. I know that I can blanket it and hope but I'm just trying to assure it turns out. I might go get some other hard oil and reduce the OO as suggested. If I do so will I have a usable bar sooner? I need to make this and hopefully have some ready to sell mid September for a local charity. Again thanks for the advice and I will pop into the intro section later tonight.


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## kumudini (Aug 6, 2015)

I use CPOP when I want to absolutely make sure that the soap gels. Gelled soaps give you sharper colors where as non gelled soaps have a creamy subdued look. Partial gel is something I'm not ready for. So I either insulate well/ CPOP. My HDPE molds have been really good for that. No glycerine rivers or bubbly tops or anything like that. I get minimal ash too. Silicone molds are different though, I always get bubbly tops and lots of ash.
Here is what I do. HDPE molds, I preheat the oven to the lowest setting which is 170 F, put the soap in. After one hour, turn the oven off but leave the soap in there. For silicone molds, I turn the oven off within 15 min and check for complete gel before taking the soap out.


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## cmzaha (Aug 6, 2015)

Like Shari and Susie I almost always have some issue with cpop so I do not use that method. When I used to gel soap if it was a cold night I would put a heat pad underneath the mold to help along with gel. Now I put them in the freezer to stop gel. I know some say gelled soap gives brighter, sharper colors, I find with my colors it does not, and have always hated the colors my cpop, when I was playing with the method, turned out


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## nogud247 (Aug 6, 2015)

shunt2011 said:


> You can most certainly CPOP. You shouldn't have a problem with 20% CO. It's when you have 100% CO that can be an issue. Many CPOP, however, I've never had any luck with it personally. I ended up with issues no matter how I tried. So, I just insulate and let it go. Also, with 80% Olive you will need to give your soap a good long cure.   If you have palm/lard available I would add a higher amount of those and drop your OO to 30% or so. You will get a nice hard creamy bar of soap.  High OO can give a bit of a slimy feel sometimes.
> 
> Welcome to the forum! You may want to pop in to the introduction section and tell us a bit about yourself.




So if I do 50% lard/30% OO/ 20% CO do you think it would be a nice, hard, worthy of selling or giving away soap by September?


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## kumudini (Aug 6, 2015)

Brighter colors or not, I dread partial gel for some reason, that's why I CPOP sometimes. And since I didn't have any issues except for the minor ones with silicone molds, I'll most likely continue to do that with my other molds. But I'm kind of wondering, what kind of issues could come up. Susie, Shunt or Carolyn, can you share the issues you had with the process so I can be on the lookout? May be I'm actually having issues and not seeing them as I'm not very experienced at this. I've only been soaping for about 9 months now.


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## shunt2011 (Aug 6, 2015)

Separation, overheating, volcanos, weird looking tops. Just a few things I had happen when I first started out. Now I just lay a couple towels around my mold and let it be. I have never had partial gel even with the air running and our room temp is 69.


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## kumudini (Aug 6, 2015)

Those will be pretty obvious I think. So may be I was just lucky so far.
Btw, my last orange soap batch after pouring in the log mold I put the extra in the bug mold. I put the log mold in the oven and the bugs just in my window after covering with plastic. There definitely is a color difference. In this instance I like the bugs better as 1. they are bugs and 2. They have that creamy look to them with a smooth surface where as the cut bars are darker but nothing special about the color and all the damage to surface the dragging off of the knife caused.


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## TeresaT (Aug 6, 2015)

nogud247 said:


> So if I do 50% lard/30% OO/ 20% CO do you think it would be a nice, hard, worthy of selling or giving away soap by September?



In your original post you state "it's my first soap ever."  So, _*NO*_, it will not be a soap worthy of selling by September.  You might be able to give it to some close friends and family; however, selling or giving your "first soap ever" to strangers is inviting trouble.  If you made a batch of soap today,   it wouldn't be ready to use until September 17th at the soonest.  And you'd have to test it, on yourself, first to make sure it was safe to use, before giving it to someone else.


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## nogud247 (Aug 6, 2015)

TeresaT said:


> In your original post you state "it's my first soap ever."  So, _*NO*_, it will not be a soap worthy of selling by September.  You might be able to give it to some close friends and family; however, selling or giving your "first soap ever" to strangers is inviting trouble.  If you made a batch of soap today,   it wouldn't be ready to use until September 17th at the soonest.  And you'd have to test it, on yourself, first to make sure it was safe to use, before giving it to someone else.




Awesome. Thank you. I fully understand. Now if I still do the lard OO co soap today in the previously mentioned ratios do you think it would be a nice soap to use at home?


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## nogud247 (Aug 6, 2015)

Also does nobody believe that if you do enough research and follow the science closely enough that it's possible to have good results out the gate?


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## kumudini (Aug 6, 2015)

I don't use lard but going by what a lot of people on this forum have to say, your recipe would indeed make a good soap if everything goes well. That last part is where most mistakes happen with brand new soapers. You might have seen this other thread about no trace, we couldn't successfully troubleshoot it yet.


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## coffeetime (Aug 6, 2015)

We all start out thinking soap is easy. But when most of us look back at our first batches, they are simply awful compared to what you'll be able to make a year or two later. Trust us: this is the whole 20/20 hindsight thing that we are trying to give to new soapers to spare them some trouble.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Aug 6, 2015)

nogud247 said:


> Also does nobody believe that if you do enough research and follow the science closely enough that it's possible to have good results out the gate?




The experience that would help you answer that is obviously lacking, which means that while the soap itself might be perfectly okay, you yourself are not in a position to give it further as you don't know in practice how it compares to other recipes and the actual practice of soap making. Theory is one thing, but not no matter how lucky you think you are, you still lack experience to back up the theory. Not to mention that you can research on some utterly terrible sources and your theory is actually garbage.


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## kumudini (Aug 6, 2015)

nogud247 said:


> Also does nobody believe that if you do enough research and follow the science closely enough that it's possible to have good results out the gate?



My first batch was good. Was it sellable? May be, but I can tell you that I make much better soaps now, every new recipe is a learning opportunity. All the studying in the world doesn't compare with hands on experience. R&D is a practical thing not theory. And, I wouldn't trust most of the internet sources or even books, anybody who thought they have something to say can put up a blog or publish a book these days.


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## TeresaT (Aug 6, 2015)

nogud247 said:


> Awesome. Thank you. I fully understand. Now if I still do the lard OO co soap today in the previously mentioned ratios do you think it would be a nice soap to use at home?



I would reduce the CO by 5% and make it castor oil to help stabilize the bubbles.   However, the recipe as stated would make a nice bar of soap to use at home.  And once you started using it, you could decide what you like (or don't) about it.  Then you could tweak the recipe for the next time.  Continue doing that until you have your perfect product.


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## TeresaT (Aug 6, 2015)

nogud247 said:


> Also does nobody believe that if you do enough research and follow the science closely enough that it's possible to have good results out the gate?



Nope.  Not me.  I've only been making soap since April.  My first soaps were great.  They made my skin feel great.  My skin problems literally disappeared before my first bar of soap did.  But soon after using them, my shower clogged up.  Turns out I have hard water.  Soap makes scum in hard water.  Did your research tell you that?  Mine sure as heck did not!  I had to buy a huge bottle of drain cleaner and a snake to clean out the shower drain.  Then I discovered what a "chelant" is and how to use it.  Now, I add it to all of my soaps.  However, I still have 4 months worth of soaps that do not have a chelant in them.  So, I have to warn my "testers" that the soap will cause scum if they have hard water.  I also tell them only use the soap a few times to get an idea of how it lathers, makes their skin feel, etc., and then toss it.  I don't want to knowingly be responsible for a bunch of bad plumbing.  So, all the research I did before I ever made my first batch of soap did not prepare me for the real world of soap.  Sorry.  I don't mean to sound mean or argumentative, but think about it, did what you learned in high school really prepare you for life?  No different with learning about soap vs making soap.


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## nogud247 (Aug 6, 2015)

TeresaT said:


> Nope.  Not me.  I've only been making soap since April.  My first soaps were great.  They made my skin feel great.  My skin problems literally disappeared before my first bar of soap did.  But soon after using them, my shower clogged up.  Turns out I have hard water.  Soap makes scum in hard water.  Did your research tell you that?  Mine sure as heck did not!  I had to buy a huge bottle of drain cleaner and a snake to clean out the shower drain.  Then I discovered what a "chelant" is and how to use it.  Now, I add it to all of my soaps.  However, I still have 4 months worth of soaps that do not have a chelant in them.  So, I have to warn my "testers" that the soap will cause scum if they have hard water.  I also tell them only use the soap a few times to get an idea of how it lathers, makes their skin feel, etc., and then toss it.  I don't want to knowingly be responsible for a bunch of bad plumbing.  So, all the research I did before I ever made my first batch of soap did not prepare me for the real world of soap.  Sorry.  I don't mean to sound mean or argumentative, but think about it, did what you learned in high school really prepare you for life?  No different with learning about soap vs making soap.




Yes my research did. I believe some people use citric acid or something to help combat it? I'll gain the knowledge hands on as suggested. Thanks to all that replied.


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## dillsandwitch (Aug 7, 2015)

Research is a great thing to do but getting in and getting your hands dirty  (haha) is the best thing to do. I did heaps of research before my first batch and i still have had heaps of batches go wonky. Ive had soap on a stick, overheating issues, morphing colours, too much colours and im sure other things i can't remember right now. 

Reminds me of a mate i had in high school who "theoretically" knew how to use a clutch in a manual car. Needless to say all his theory went out the window the second  he hopped behind the wheel. I still  laugh about it to this day.

Anyhoo enjoy your soaping and  if you really want to get some soaps for the charity sale in september maybe some melt and pour soaps for this one and your cp soaps for next year would be the way to go.


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## nogud247 (Aug 8, 2015)

Anyone want to pick this apart and let me know what I'm failing at from the start?


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## TeresaT (Aug 8, 2015)

nogud247 said:


> Yes my research did. I believe some people use citric acid or something to help combat it? I'll gain the knowledge hands on as suggested. Thanks to all that replied.



You are so lucky to have known about, and expected it, before hand.  None of my books addressed it.  None of my "how to do it" research warned about it.  I found out about it through experience.  Then I had to find out what to do about it.  Now I use citric acid at 2% in all of my batches.  Everyone learns and retains information differently.  I'm a hands-on seeing-is-believing kind of learner.  You can explain things to me a dozen times, but until I actually do it myself, I really don't get it.


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## Jstar (Aug 8, 2015)

Im going to agree with others here...these soaps you are making now may be ok to use yourself, but not for selling..you wont know how these soaps turn out say in 3- 6 months in a customers hands..some people buy handmade soaps and sit on them awhile..

Most here, including me, would advise getting many batches under your belt over a course of at 'least' a year to see how each soap/ingredients/FO's etc perform over time.

I wouldn't give out samples except to family and friends to start..not even charities...you may get a great soap to start, but its very easy to have major issues down the line..even soapers who have been doing it for 20 yrs still have surprises.

Good luck with your adventures, and welcome to the addiction


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## TeresaT (Aug 8, 2015)

nogud247 said:


> Anyone want to pick this apart and let me know what I'm failing at from the start?
> 
> View attachment 15813



I don't think you are doing anything "wrong" with this, but what are you hoping to get from the soap?  Personally, I like my soap at 50% lard, 30% OO, 15% CO and 5% castor (SF 8%).  It gives a hard, low cleansing, high conditioning bar with rich creamy lather and not a lot of bubbles.  That makes my skin feel great.  I also have a Bastile I love that is 75% OO, 25% lard & 5% castor (SF 8%). That is an amazing soap and it gives me a close shave without any nicks.  So far, of the different recipes I've given to friends to try, these two are the favorites.  You just have to make small batches and experiment.  Once you've tested them on yourself and deemed them safe, give some to close friends (that won't sue you ) and family to try out.  What you think is the perfect soap may be the worst thing in the world for someone else.  Soaping is an experiment in patience and a huge crap shoot.  Plus a fun addiction.


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## nogud247 (Aug 8, 2015)

I fully understand and concede to the terms collectively agree on by everyone here. That said do you think the posted soapcalc recipe would make good soap?


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## nogud247 (Aug 8, 2015)

Good as in a soap to use at home and does it seem like a good starter soap?


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## nogud247 (Aug 8, 2015)

TeresaT said:


> I don't think you are doing anything "wrong" with this, but what are you hoping to get from the soap?  Personally, I like my soap at 50% lard, 30% OO, 15% CO and 5% castor (SF 8%).  It gives a hard, low cleansing, high conditioning bar with rich creamy lather and not a lot of bubbles.  That makes my skin feel great.  I also have a Bastile I love that is 75% OO, 25% lard & 5% castor (SF 8%). That is an amazing soap and it gives me a close shave without any nicks.  So far, of the different recipes I've given to friends to try, these two are the favorites.  You just have to make small batches and experiment.  Once you've tested them on yourself and deemed them safe, give some to close friends (that won't sue you ) and family to try out.  What you think is the perfect soap may be the worst thing in the world for someone else.  Soaping is an experiment in patience and a huge crap shoot.  Plus a fun addiction.




Makes sense to me. I'm looking for a hard bar of creamy soap that doesn't suck lol. I just tossed the numbers in until it seemed like it might be something I'd like. I currently have OO, CO, and Lard on hand as well at a mold, cutter, FO. Just wanting to add this to my addiction list while also making something I can (eventually after years and some wizard training) give to people I like.


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## Susie (Aug 8, 2015)

That recipe will make most excellent soap.  My fear is that the high lard will spoil you for all other oil blends,


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## nogud247 (Aug 8, 2015)

Susie said:


> That recipe will make most excellent soap.  My fear is that the high lard will spoil you for all other oil blends,




Thank you for the feedback. I also posted the feedback in the correct place so I'm sorry for a double post. I was thinking lard is 1) cheap 2) available 3) well loved by many soap makers so I figured why not give it a try. 

Anything off the top of your head I should watch for since it will be my first soap? Should I cut ASAP or after two days ect.


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## Jstar (Aug 8, 2015)

Technically speaking, you should be able to cut that recipe within 8-12 hrs, maybe even sooner..however depending on what FO's etc you add, you need to watch for overheating, such as cracks or oil droplets on the top.


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## nogud247 (Aug 8, 2015)

Jstar said:


> Technically speaking, you should be able to cut that recipe within 8-12 hrs, maybe even sooner..however depending on what FO's etc you add, you need to watch for overheating, such as cracks or oil droplets on the top.




I am going to make this one lavender scented. I'm not sure how the FO will interact but here's to hoping. 
Thank you for the reply. I'm excited.


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## kumudini (Aug 8, 2015)

nogud247 said:


> I am going to make this one lavender scented. I'm not sure how the FO will interact but here's to hoping.
> Thank you for the reply. I'm excited.



If you are using a lavender FO, you might have some acceleration as it is a floral. The EO doesn't cause any problems for me.


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## Jstar (Aug 8, 2015)

If it were me, Id make my first soap unscented...just to see how the soap itself comes together...I'd do that several times and get the hang of it before adding anything else..and then only 1 extra thing at a time....


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## nogud247 (Aug 8, 2015)

Jstar said:


> If it were me, Id make my first soap unscented...just to see how the soap itself comes together...I'd do that several times and get the hang of it before adding anything else..and then only 1 extra thing at a time....




There is a lot of logic here. I will make two batches and leave one unscented and in the second I will only add FO and change nothing else. Great idea. Thank you.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Aug 9, 2015)

nogud247 said:


> Anyone want to pick this apart and let me know what I'm failing at from the start?
> 
> View attachment 15813




Please stop posting the same thing in different sections - if you post a recipe here asking for advice, don't post it in another section.


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## nogud247 (Aug 9, 2015)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Please stop posting the same thing in different sections - if you post a recipe here asking for advice, don't post it in another section.




I did apologize for the double post but yes I understand and it won't happen again.


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## nogud247 (Aug 9, 2015)

Okay I decided to actually make this. Lye is cooling now and everything's in place and waiting. I'm not sure why but I'm nervous lol. Pics one way or another sometime tomorrow.


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## nogud247 (Aug 10, 2015)

Looks like it might end up as soap after all? I hope. Soda ash on the top of it but I don't mind really. I'll cut it tonight after work.


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## nogud247 (Aug 10, 2015)

I can see all of the rookie mistakes I made in this batch but it doesn't zap anymore and it smells really nice. I lathered up a small piece and it is actually nice. Cannot wait till it cures and can be my ugly but handmade bath bar.


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## spenny92 (Aug 10, 2015)

Looks pretty good to me - congratulations on your first (of many, I'm sure) batch!


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## Arthur Dent (Aug 10, 2015)

Welcome to the Lard Side!


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2015)

Congrats on your first soap and there is nothing ugly about a beautiful white bar.


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## TeresaT (Aug 10, 2015)

:clap::clap::clap::clap:  You did a wonderful job.  It looks great!  Six weeks will drag by so slowly, but it's worth the wait.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Aug 11, 2015)

It's a good looking batch. Nicely done


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## nogud247 (Aug 11, 2015)

Is it normal to want to make more right away? Like change one veritable and do it again. And again.....


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Aug 11, 2015)

Normal indeed, but until you try a cured bar, do you really know what you might want to change?  Let's say you make a second batch now with more co, then find the first batch too drying - the second batch will be totally in the wrong direction. 

I would try something totally different next time, like a salt bar or 80% lard or somesuch, and then something else totally different, then your first batch is cured enough for feedback


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## cmzaha (Aug 11, 2015)

Your soap looks GREAT! Congratulations :clap: and you're going to love it


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## nogud247 (Aug 11, 2015)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Normal indeed, but until you try a cured bar, do you really know what you might want to change?  Let's say you make a second batch now with more co, then find the first batch too drying - the second batch will be totally in the wrong direction.
> 
> I would try something totally different next time, like a salt bar or 80% lard or somesuch, and then something else totally different, then your first batch is cured enough for feedback




That's a great idea. Maybe a shampoo bar next. Salt bars look interesting as well. Thanks for the feedback.


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## IrishLass (Aug 11, 2015)

Nicely done! :clap:



			
				nogud247 said:
			
		

> Is it normal to want to make more right away? Like change one veritable and do it again. And again.....


 
Yep, it sounds like you've been successfully assimilated. You're one of us now. 


IrishLass


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## Arthur Dent (Aug 11, 2015)

nogud247 said:


> Is it normal to want to make more right away? Like change one veritable and do it again. And again.....



Absolutely! 
Good advice has been given on this question already, but I'll chime in anyway.
I have been soaping about a year and a half or so and consider myself a pretty raw beginner.  I have around 200 bars of various recipes in all stages of cure on the racks at any given time.  I watch this forum all the time, when I see a recipe that looks good I print it out, then I might make it or I might keep it a while and make it later.  Or not.  While those are curing I'll find another one and try it.  Now I'm learning to make modifications to those recipes, and have even made up a few myself.  Some of my early soaps are pretty darned good right now, some aren't worth a hoot.  Some of those first soaps I didn't keep notes on, so I don't really know what they are, and it's too bad too, because there is one that I really like, and I can't reproduce it.  Now I write down everything, and label all my soaps, so I can look anything up if I want to.
Watch the discussions here on the forum, just about any question you can think of will come up at some point or another, but if it doesn't then ask it yourself.  These folks are a goldmine of information.


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## nogud247 (Aug 12, 2015)

I've read so many posts here that it's insane but I have to soak up all the success and fails of y'all. I keep notes on most endeavors I take on, soap is no exception. My daughter thought me crazy when I was writing notes while making the soap. Then I showed her my candy notes... She might commit me. Thank you to all that have helped. I'm sure just by reading you'll help me even more.


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## nogud247 (Aug 12, 2015)

It feels really nice already. Can't wait for another month.


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## nogud247 (Aug 19, 2015)

It's been two weeks so I decided to try this soap again...it's really very nice. Much more mellow than a week ago. It leaves me with soft skin not dry. My daughter decided she wanted to use it and now I "can never stop making soap ever "


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## nogud247 (Aug 19, 2015)

Also, is there a way to keep it mostly the same but make more bubbles?


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## TeresaT (Aug 19, 2015)

Did you put castor oil in it?  That helps pump up the bubbles.  Others also talk about putting sugar in the batter to boost bubbles (1 tsp ppo I think?).  I have not tried this yet, but I'm sure someone will let you know the proper amount.


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## nogud247 (Aug 19, 2015)

TeresaT said:


> Did you put castor oil in it?  That helps pump up the bubbles.  Others also talk about putting sugar in the batter to boost bubbles (1 tsp ppo I think?).  I have not tried this yet, but I'm sure someone will let you know the proper amount.




I didn't add castor or sugar. I believe you are correct about that amount btw. I think I'll try that in a few batches when I come back to this recipe.


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## coffeetime (Aug 19, 2015)

The very high olive oil is why you have little lather and bubbles. Decrease the olive to 50%, add in 5% castor, then make up the difference with palm or lard. You will have much better lather and it will still be lovely on your skin.


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## nogud247 (Aug 19, 2015)

coffeetime said:


> The very high olive oil is why you have little lather and bubbles. Decrease the olive to 50%, add in 5% castor, then make up the difference with palm or lard. You will have much better lather and it will still be lovely on your skin.




Sorry I made the 80% lard 15% co 5% OO actually. But yes my original was going to be high OO


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## Jstar (Aug 19, 2015)

Maybe try 

75% Lard
15% CO
5% OO
5% castor

OR

80% Lard
10% CO
5% OO
5% castor

Or you can try a bit of sugar...1 tsp ppo is correct


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## Arthur Dent (Aug 19, 2015)

That should actually be a pretty good soap. Next time try one of the recipes Jstar listed.  That 5% castor oil makes a big difference.


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## nogud247 (Aug 19, 2015)

Arthur Dent said:


> That should actually be a pretty good soap. Next time try one of the recipes Jstar listed.  That 5% castor oil makes a big difference.




I will for sure. I think I love this soap already. It's cool to note how it evolves over time. Even though it's been a small time it's so much nicer than before.


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## not_ally (Aug 19, 2015)

Bubbles, after some very limited no-fail wisdom, are hard.  The no-fail stuff:  CO in high proportions (although the downside of that is that it is v. drying for many folks.)  Castor to maximize the lather in the existing oils, I use b/w 7-8%, the average is probably lower (5% is what you see most often b/c it will accelerate your trace a little and make your soap softer in higher amounts), others have used higher amounts w/different mixes with success.  Sugar of whatever sort, including honey.  1 tspn to 1 Tb ppo, people vary on that too.  I use a sugar solution, so mine ends up being @ 1/2 TB ppo when you factor in the distilled water. 

After that, it is up for grabs.  I use aloe for my lye liquid and full coconut milk in every batch b/c *I* think they make the lather good.  But I got suggestions for doing that from anecdotal sources, so even if I like my soaps better with them, other people might disagree, and I have no scientific basis upon which to claim that my feeling is true (and really, I don't care, so wouldn't anyway.)  

It is such an unsatisfying answer, but you kind of have to try a bunch of stuff and just see what you like.  Although it sure is fun to try all the stuff


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## nogud247 (Aug 19, 2015)

not_ally said:


> Bubbles, after some very limited no-fail wisdom, are hard.  The no-fail stuff:  CO in high proportions (although the downside of that is that it is v. drying for many folks.)  Castor to maximize the lather in the existing oils, I use b/w 7-8%, the average is probably lower (5% is what you see most often b/c it will accelerate your trace a little and make your soap softer in higher amounts), others have used higher amounts w/different mixes with success.  Sugar of whatever sort, including honey.  1 tspn to 1 Tb ppo, people vary on that too.  I use a sugar solution, so mine ends up being @ 1/2 TB ppo when you factor in the distilled water.
> 
> After that, it is up for grabs.  I use aloe for my lye liquid and full coconut milk in every batch b/c *I* think they make the lather good.  But I got suggestions for doing that from anecdotal sources, so even if I like my soaps better with them, other people might disagree, and I have no scientific basis upon which to claim that my feeling is true (and really, I don't care, so wouldn't anyway.)
> 
> It is such an unsatisfying answer, but you kind of have to try a bunch of stuff and just see what you like.  Although it sure is fun to try all the stuff




I think it's a lovely answer! It is fun.  I'm excited to setup the experiments. It's clear my daughter wants to be a full time tester.


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## shunt2011 (Aug 20, 2015)

I would personally up the CO to about 20% and add Castor at 5-7% with an SF of 7-8.  I use a combination of PKO and CO in my recipes and I love the lather I get with it.  I generally go to around 22% in combination and my cleaning is still 14-15 which I find nice as does my family.  The castor will add stability to your lather.  Part of the fun is playing with your recipes until you find what you love most.


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## nogud247 (Aug 25, 2015)

I have to admit, the longer this soap cures the more lovely it gets. Currently the lather is great. There isn't anything off by any means. It leaves my hands clean and soft. Can't wait till it's been a year.


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## Jstar (Aug 26, 2015)

Heh heh...you have been assimilated as well...resistance is futile


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