# Essential Oil Scent Fading



## GardenGirl (Jun 25, 2010)

Hey all y'all!

I used a bar of soap today that I set to cure on May 4.  It was a mini-batch of 454 g (1 pound, right?) of oils.  I used 3/4 T of litsea and 1 T Rosemary.  It smelled wonderful and I was envisioning my future shower, all surrounded in lemony-rosemary-ness!

Welp, I used it today (I think it's been 7 weeks on the shelf) and it seems to just barely smell!  Not like there's NO smell, but it's quite soft.  Might be fine for some, but I was wanting a bit more.  

So, for my question.  As I've made larger batches, it's amazing how much liquid accumulates just in essential oils.  Is there an upper limit to how much essential oil you can put in?  Not talking so much about the smell as much about the additional liquid.  I usually keep my water amounts quite low - is that important since I'm adding so much in essential oils?  

So, for the batch I mentioned, I'm considering doubling those amounts - it seems way too strong, but I want more lemon!  

Or, is a 7 week bar of soap past it's prime?

Or, should I be storing them with only other soaps of the same scent - in a plastic bin or something - after my 4 week cure?  I've read of folks doing this I just don't want to waste time boxing up soap if it doesn't really help.  I've just got all my soaps on a shelf in a large closet.

There, I'm certain I've reached my quota of questions.  Or your quota of patience!

Thanks for any/all advice.


----------



## Jezzy (Jun 25, 2010)

I think you could have used more EO. I just weighed out what you put in and its about 20 g most everything I have read says 1 oz (28g) ppo. You might want to weigh out your eo's too.


----------



## reallyrita (Jun 26, 2010)

GardenGirl:  you don't need to include your EO in your oil or your liquid amounts when doing your calculations.  It is just extra.  You really need to weigh out your EOs or your Fragrance oils on your scale.  EOs can have different weights.  Some of these oils are really dense, others are lighter.  It is best to weigh them out rather than using teaspoons or tablespoons.  The usual rule of thumb is to use one ounce of Fragrance per lb of soaping oils.  Some fragrances are so strong that you can use alot less.  Most EOs benefit from the full ounce as they can fade.  I recently came across the suggestion of using a tablespoon of cornstarch mixed into the EO or FO and a bit of the soaping oil, then adding this mixture back into the  pot of oils before adding the lye water.  This is supposed to help anchor the scent.  I have not tried this myself but I plan to try it out soon.  Up your amount of EO and weigh it out on the scale and you should have better luck.


----------



## Jezzy (Jun 26, 2010)

I have tried the cornstarch as an anchor. My soaps are still curing but the still smell wonderfully citrusy!


----------



## Angela (Jun 26, 2010)

I made a batch 4 weeks ago using cornstarch and only lime eo.  Very happy with the fragrance.  Took a shower with it yesterday very very pleased.


----------



## MagiaDellaLuna (Jun 26, 2010)

It makes my little heart very happy to hear that the corn starch is working out for you ladies 

It has never let me down in many, many soaping years


----------



## emilaid (Jun 26, 2010)

I'd like to try using cornstarch - at what point in the process do you add it? and how much do you use?

Thanks


----------



## reallyrita (Jun 26, 2010)

Emilaid:  see my post above:  you add it to the EO with a bit of your soaping oils....mix well, add back to the pot of oils and THEN add your lye water.  I have read that one tablespoon is about right for each pound of oils.  I realize you may be on metric system....don't know the equivalents...sorry.


----------



## FloridaSoaper (Jun 26, 2010)

I just have a question - if you add the eo/cornstarch mix to the oils before you mix the lye in, won't this cause more of the scent to be diminished by the harsh chemical reaction with the lye? I always heard you were supposed to add the eo/fo in at trace? Just a question...I could be totally wrong on this.


----------



## Sunny (Jun 26, 2010)

The chemical reaction is still happening even after trace. IMO it doesn't matter when you add the FO, I still add everything at trace just in case of seizing but I don't think anything is preserved by adding it later.


----------



## FloridaSoaper (Jun 26, 2010)

Yah, that makes sense! Thanks


----------



## dcornett (Jun 26, 2010)

I tried the corn starch too, I added it to my batch of lemon lavender a little over 4 weeks ago...and it still smells nice and lemony.  Thanks MagiaDellaLuna! It worked great in my tropical breeze to, you can still smell the coconut Mmmm!


----------



## MagiaDellaLuna (Jun 27, 2010)

dcornett said:
			
		

> I tried the corn starch too, I added it to my batch of lemon lavender a little over 4 weeks ago...and it still smells nice and lemony.  Thanks MagiaDellaLuna! It worked great in my tropical breeze to, you can still smell the coconut Mmmm!





If you have not added any silk please let us know whether you find that the corn starch has added anything to the "feel" of the soap/lather too. It is supposed to make it feel more silky, but since I always add silk I cannot judge whether this is true ot not.



			
				emilaid said:
			
		

> I'd like to try using cornstarch - at what point in the process do you add it? and how much do you use?
> 
> Thanks Smile



Just as reallyrita said. The rough conversion (we are metric too) is 1 TBS per 500 g oils.


----------



## carebear (Jun 27, 2010)

I've not found cornstarch to help at all with true citrus EOs (orange, for example - litsea isn't a citrus).  I spoke with our perfumers and they chuckled and said that it wouldn't protect them from degradation - that citrus EOs are simply not stable at high pH, nor over time anyway.


----------



## reallyrita (Jun 27, 2010)

Wow, Carebear, I was surprised to hear this about the true citrus EO's.  I was planning on using the cornstarch on my next batch of Lavender EO soap but also on some citrus EO's I have stashed away.  I have had very good luck with Aromafix from Lotioncrafters' but I have not tried it with any EOs yet, just with FOs.

I always add my fragrance to the oils before adding the lye water.  Never had any problem with doing it this way.


----------



## MagiaDellaLuna (Jun 27, 2010)

carebear said:
			
		

> I've not found cornstarch to help at all with true citrus EOs (orange, for example - litsea isn't a citrus).  I spoke with our perfumers and they chuckled and said that it wouldn't protect them from degradation - that citrus EOs are simply not stable at high pH, nor over time anyway.



I have several bars of soap made with Sweet Orange EO which are at least 6 months old. The aroma is still as strong as the day they were unmolded. They are whipped soap, so the PH would be as high as the same soap made using CP.

Do you think the fact that I always use "full" water could make a difference ?


----------



## dcornett (Jun 27, 2010)

MagiaDellaLuna said:
			
		

> dcornett said:
> 
> 
> 
> > I tried the corn starch too, I added it to my batch of lemon lavender a little over 4 weeks ago...and it still smells nice and lemony.  Thanks MagiaDellaLuna! It worked great in my tropical breeze to, you can still smell the coconut Mmmm!





If you have not added any silk please let us know whether you find that the corn starch has added anything to the "feel" of the soap/lather too. It is supposed to make it feel more silky, but since I always add silk I cannot judge whether this is true ot not.

I don't add silk, and as far as the lather goes I can't tell much difference in the bars with cornstarch compared to the ones without, but the bar itself does has a nice satiny feel. It's very smooth and silky to the touch.


----------



## MagiaDellaLuna (Jun 27, 2010)

dcornett said:
			
		

> I don't add silk, and as far as the lather goes I can't tell much difference in the bars with cornstarch compared to the ones without, but the bar itself does has a nice satiny feel. It's very smooth and silky to the touch.



Thanks for letting us know, dcornett. 
Did you CP or HP ? I am going to check the texture of my Orange soap now and compare it to one of the bars without corn starch.


----------



## dcornett (Jun 27, 2010)

I do cp.


----------



## GardenGirl (Jun 30, 2010)

Thanks for all the replies, ya'll.  I couldn't get back to check till now.

I actually did use arrowroot powder (in the same way you're using cornstarch) in this test batch.  I forgot to say that at first.  

But, my batch didn't have any citrus, so I wasn't really thinking it ought to have faded so much.  My addition of arrowroot wasn't for staying power so much as that I like the way arrowroot feels on my skin and thought it might be nice.  Isn't that what test batches are all about?  

I think, though, that I just didn't use enough EO to begin with.  I was wanting to be careful since Litsea is so amazingly strong, so I went carefully.  

What about storage?  Should I store each kind separately?  Like after the 4 weeks is up, stick all the same scents together in a box or something?

And, I'm still interested in this whole idea of water usage and using LOTS of EO's.  Do I need to be careful to keep the water use low if I'm going to be adding bucketloads of EO's?

Seems like so much liquid.


----------



## BakingNana (Jul 1, 2010)

Check out how much of each EO is still skin safe before adding a ton.  I'd stay at or under the 1 oz. PPO with all of them except maybe lavender.  For sales, anyway.  But I'm the cautious type.


----------



## honor435 (Jul 1, 2010)

I couldnt imagine using 1oz pp of lavender, that stuff is strong!
Also, I tried adding my eo/fo with the oils, it did not prevent seizing.
Kinda spendy using lots of eos, are you opposed to fos? I started out with eos, then switched to fos, love em.


----------



## BakingNana (Jul 1, 2010)

I agree with Honor.  That's what I meant by "except lavender" but I wasn't very clear.  Wouldn't go above .5 for that one.  I switched to mostly FOs; exception being lemongrass and eucalyptus, and lemon eucalyptus if my store ever gets it back in stock!  I buy phthalate-free FOs.  Aroma Haven has a lavender that's dead on, at least to my nose.  I have a cedarwood FO that's also dead on, but I suspect that one may have at least some cedarwood EO in the blend.  My sons love that one.  I can go crazy with those little 1 or 2 oz. sample bottles!  Here's the thing...I'm sort of leary about using EOs without research.  Here's a link to some information on various EOs, whether they're safe, etc.

http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/newsle ... h_care.php

Most people know whether they're sensitive to fragrances or not.  But I think some people think EOs are always safe and that might not be the case.  If you're going to use a lot of EOs, I'd sure do your homework first.  Just my opinion.


----------



## PrairieCraft (Jul 1, 2010)

I am an essential oil nut and have been applying them neat (that's undiluted) to my skin for years.  Wintergreen is a great essential oil to use as a muscle rub.  The list you posted recommends never ingesting oils that are "food" oils.  Obviously you don't want to take a gulp of EO but I know a lot of people who ingest EOs as some type of therapeutic regiment. I have used diluted cinnamon on skin with no problem but cinnamon is the one oil I would use a lot of caution with (when applying directly to the skin even diluted)  Some of the oils listed as skin irritants won't bother the majority of people and those people who are prone to irritation are usually aware of what they need to avoid.  Quite a few people have a problem with citrus oil.  

In my opinion the amount of EO used in a batch of soap, the fact that it is highly diluted and will not remain on your skin for any length of time makes it very unlikely that  most people (other than those with known sensitivities) will have a problem with EOs.  The heat from the lye reaction (or any heat added to an EO)  also changes it and it is never recommended to heat an EO so it seems likely the heat alone would render the EO ineffective to do any of the bad things they could possibly do.

One of my favorite uses for the "dangerous" wintergreen is to apply it to the gums around a sore tooth, instant relief.  I would never use an oil that I bought from a soap supplier for this though.  If you are interested in the therapeutic benefit of oils buy from a vendor who carries therapeutic grade oils.  

Just my opinion    I have applied every essential oil I own (50+) neat to my own skin at some point.  Crazy!


----------



## FloridaSoaper (Jul 1, 2010)

PrairieCraft I love this! I just love to hear when people go against the norm. I knew that there had to be people out there who do this, but haven't yet met any in regards to eo's.  Anyways, can I ask what your favorite eo's are? You said you have 50 so I'm really interested since I've only smelled a few of them so far! I love soaping with eo's...they smell so "fresh" as opposed to fo's. Now I do still soap with fo's...but a very limited few...only ones that I've smelled that I really like. I don't really have rules with myself regarding eo's/fo's...I research to find out more about eo's and use them with caution myself...I love learning all about them. I put a blend together at a soap class I took and I forgot to write down what eo's I put in, and gosh, the finished soap smells soo good...I know for sure that there is vetiver, lemongrass, and lavender in it? There was one more I put in there too, but I really have no idea. So what do you think of vetiver? I'm thinking the missing eo could be peru balsam but I'm not sure. Anyways, sorry this is so long...just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.  



			
				PrairieCraft said:
			
		

> I am an essential oil nut and have been applying them neat (that's undiluted) to my skin for years.  Wintergreen is a great essential oil to use as a muscle rub.  The list you posted recommends never ingesting oils that are "food" oils.  Obviously you don't want to take a gulp of EO but I know a lot of people who ingest EOs as some type of therapeutic regiment. I have used diluted cinnamon on skin with no problem but cinnamon is the one oil I would use a lot of caution with (when applying directly to the skin even diluted)  Some of the oils listed as skin irritants won't bother the majority of people and those people who are prone to irritation are usually aware of what they need to avoid.  Quite a few people have a problem with citrus oil.
> 
> In my opinion the amount of EO used in a batch of soap, the fact that it is highly diluted and will not remain on your skin for any length of time makes it very unlikely that  most people (other than those with known sensitivities) will have a problem with EOs.  The heat from the lye reaction (or any heat added to an EO)  also changes it and it is never recommended to heat an EO so it seems likely the heat alone would render the EO ineffective to do any of the bad things they could possibly do.
> 
> ...


----------



## soapsmurf (Jul 1, 2010)

PrairieCraft said:
			
		

> I am an essential oil nut and have been applying them neat (that's undiluted) to my skin for years.  Wintergreen is a great essential oil to use as a muscle rub.  The list you posted recommends never ingesting oils that are "food" oils.  Obviously you don't want to take a gulp of EO but I know a lot of people who ingest EOs as some type of therapeutic regiment. I have used diluted cinnamon on skin with no problem but cinnamon is the one oil I would use a lot of caution with (when applying directly to the skin even diluted)  Some of the oils listed as skin irritants won't bother the majority of people and those people who are prone to irritation are usually aware of what they need to avoid.  Quite a few people have a problem with citrus oil.
> 
> In my opinion the amount of EO used in a batch of soap, the fact that it is highly diluted and will not remain on your skin for any length of time makes it very unlikely that  most people (other than those with known sensitivities) will have a problem with EOs.  The heat from the lye reaction (or any heat added to an EO)  also changes it and it is never recommended to heat an EO so it seems likely the heat alone would render the EO ineffective to do any of the bad things they could possibly do.
> 
> ...


Just wanted to mention to you that it's quite possible to develop sensitivities to EOs over time, particularly when used neat.  Since everyone's level of sensitivity can be different, I wouldn't advocate using oils neat, in general, without the user having considerable knowledge of safety and potential sensitivity issues.  There was a blog I ran across of an aromatherapist who lamented that she was no longer able to use lavender neat, as she'd developed a sensitivity to it over the years.  Now just a whiff will cause a sneeze attack.  It's safer and doesn't terribly adulterate an EO if you add it to a carrier like sweet almond or evoo.  I'm glad it's working for you, but you could develop sensitivity over an unknown period of time, which would then limit your ability to enjoy your EOs.  jmo.


----------



## PrairieCraft (Jul 1, 2010)

soapsmurf said:
			
		

> PrairieCraft said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have studied and used EO's for quite a while and am aware of the potential to develop sensitivities.  This is a well known side effect of overusing many things, I haven't been able to use perfumes for over a decade, at all.  There are so many things we use in our lives that we can develop sensitivities to.  I use my oils as needed for certain things, I rarely put one on for no reason.  I have heard this about lavender before.  It always seems to be lavender that someone has developed sensitivity to.  I can only guess this is because it is the most popular oil and good for everything.  It is not my favorite and I do not use it in an all over kind of way (like on my clients during a treatment) but rather as a spot treatment.  I think people can get into trouble if they use the same oil or oils on a daily basis.  To me they are almost like medication, you don't take an advil if nothing hurts, right?  I also don't care to go about life spending too much time thinking about negative things that could happen(you bring about what you think).  I don't own an umbrella because I don't plan to be rained on.

Are you also someone who uses EOs for things other than soap?

The only point I was trying to make with my spiel was that it's unlikely people are going to end up with harmful effects from an EO in soap, and that some of them aren't as dangerous as you might be led to believe.  Common sense and moderation in all things!!

My disclaimer is that some of the oils listed in the link earlier in the thread are not familiar to me, musturd?  Not sure what, why?   Some of them aren't common at all so I can't imagine they have much going for them.


----------



## PrairieCraft (Jul 2, 2010)

{PrairieCraft I love this! I just love to hear when people go against the norm. I knew that there had to be people out there who do this, but haven't yet met any in regards to eo's.  Anyways, can I ask what your favorite eo's are? You said you have 50 so I'm really interested since I've only smelled a few of them so far! I love soaping with eo's...they smell so "fresh" as opposed to fo's. Now I do still soap with fo's...but a very limited few...only ones that I've smelled that I really like. I don't really have rules with myself regarding eo's/fo's...I research to find out more about eo's and use them with caution myself...I love learning all about them. I put a blend together at a soap class I took and I forgot to write down what eo's I put in, and gosh, the finished soap smells soo good...I know for sure that there is vetiver, lemongrass, and lavender in it? There was one more I put in there too, but I really have no idea. So what do you think of vetiver? I'm thinking the missing eo could be peru balsam but I'm not sure. Anyways, sorry this is so long...just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.}



I am definitely an against the norm kinda person.  I am a Massage Therapist and have been interested in, studying, using and selling EOs for over a decade now.  I have had the benefit of working with a lot of people who also use EOs therapeutically.  So I have my own personal knowledge and also my colleagues, clients, teachers etc...  Some people can have bad reactions to EOs, in my experience it's usually citrus, cinnamon, evergreens and as I mentioned in the thread some overuse sensitivity issues regarding lavender. (Oh and also, don't ever put bergamot on your skin if you will be out in the sun, it won't hurt but it will leave the ugliest brown spot that stays for weeks.  I was unfortunate enough to experience this, I was aware of the effect but forgot I had put it on the day before!)   That doesn't mean they are dangerous to use, but you should be informed about what you are using.  Learn from other people who are already experienced and have some oil ready to put over any EO you are trying for the first time to dilute it if it irritates the skin.  Don't ever put water on an EO that is irritating your skin, it just causes the EO to be absorbed into your skin faster.  First douse it with OO or whatever plain oil you have handy and then wash it after it calms down.  Also, as I mentioned in the thread, cheap EOs are great for soap but I would never recommend using them in a therapeutic way, EOs are really powerful and you want to make sure you're getting the purest highest quality oils you can.  

I considered using only EOs with soap but LOVE some of the neat scents you can only get with the synthetics.

If you want to learn A LOT about EOs check out a few books at the library and then buy The Essential Oils Desk Reference, big book kinda pricy, I got mine used on Amazon.  Used books=good stuff.  

I think vetiver has some great therapeutic properties and a lower vibration, if you will, that a spazz like me is drawn to.  It's recommended for stress    I like to use it in bath salts for a sleepytime bath.  Again, most adults will be ok with this but you never know.  No two people are the same and someone could have a reaction to something that no one else has ever been bothered by.  I would hesitate to put anything in a childs bath water.  I have pale Irish skin and remember as a child how certain products and even bubble baths were/are irritating.  

I apologized for being long winded in my introduction  

FloridaSoaper if you have your email listed I will try to send you a copy of the vetiver listing from the book I mentioned.  Having technical difficulties with the scanner right now though, will have to wait til after my vaca, should be packing right now.

Has anyone ever been kicked out for talking too much?  My apologies to GardenGirl for hijacking your thread.


----------



## soapsmurf (Jul 2, 2010)

PrairieCraft said:
			
		

> I have studied and used EO's for quite a while and am aware of the potential to develop sensitivities.  This is a well known side effect of overusing many things, I haven't been able to use perfumes for over a decade, at all.  There are so many things we use in our lives that we can develop sensitivities to.  I use my oils as needed for certain things, I rarely put one on for no reason.  I have heard this about lavender before.  It always seems to be lavender that someone has developed sensitivity to.  I can only guess this is because it is the most popular oil and good for everything.  It is not my favorite and I do not use it in an all over kind of way (like on my clients during a treatment) but rather as a spot treatment.  I think people can get into trouble if they use the same oil or oils on a daily basis.  To me they are almost like medication, you don't take an advil if nothing hurts, right?  I also don't care to go about life spending too much time thinking about negative things that could happen(you bring about what you think).  I don't own an umbrella because I don't plan to be rained on.
> 
> Are you also someone who uses EOs for things other than soap?
> 
> The only point I was trying to make with my spiel was that it's unlikely people are going to end up with harmful effects from an EO in soap, and that some of them aren't as dangerous as you might be led to believe.  Common sense and moderation in all things!!


I agree with you on your point that EOs in soap are unlikely to be dangerous- though I still think some (like non-steam distilled citrus) can retain undesirable qualities (phototoxicity) through the soaping process. (Some debate that the oils have any efficacy at all once they go through the process of saponifying, so there's two sides to that coin, certainly.)  PrairieCraft, don't take my post the wrong way.  I'm not suggesting that you aren't knowledgeable in your use of EOs, in fact, quite the opposite.  I certainly agree that they can be much like medication and that's why I wouldn't advocate EOs being used neat by someone without the proper knowledge and experience with them.  Very few EOs are recommended for use neat, but lavender is one that often is. I honestly believe that so many develop sensitivities to it in particular because it's often taught as being one of the oils that's safely used neat.  Some probably take that endorsement to excess.  Others are more cautious of their application and are fine.  
I've used EOs before in other non-soaping applications, but it's always been diluted in some form.


----------



## FloridaSoaper (Jul 2, 2010)

I just love this thread! And PrairieCraft, if you get the chance when you get back from vaca., I'd love to have some more info. on vetiver from your book. I feel somewhat "drawn" to it too if that's the one I'm smelling in the soap. I think stress-relieving eo's are my thing. I will have to get the eo desk reference when I can scrape some extra dough together.  Thanks for recommending the book to me...I was wondering which books would be good to read up on eo's...just hadn't gotten around to asking about it yet. Well have a wonderful vacation! Thanks for all the input Prairie and soapsmurf!


----------



## GardenGirl (Jul 2, 2010)

PrairieCraft said:
			
		

> My apologies to GardenGirl for hijacking your thread.



No apologies needed, here!  The more the merrier, imo.  I learn more that way.

floridasoaper - I'm a huge vetiver fan, myself.  Love the stuff. Smells like a pipe or an old library or my grandpa or my idea of what "the indies" smells like or pirates or some combination of all of those things . . .

honor - I don't think I'm opposed to all fo's, I just am not feeling the need for them, yet.  I'm going to work on better/more accurate weight measurements and try my small batches again. I've been making unscented soap and am only now tackling scent.

bakingnana - thanks for the reminder.  Apart from any possible skin irritants, I'm not interested in paying for any more essential oil than is required to scent the soap- yikes.  It'd be easy to break the bank on EO's!


----------



## BakingNana (Jul 2, 2010)

You said it, Garden Girl!  I was just looking over a list of EOs this afternoon from one of my favorite vendors.  Yikes is the WORD!

Keep us posted on your experiences with EOs.  Very interesting.


----------

