# Critique this shave-soap recipe...(REVISED RECIPE)



## IanT (Nov 21, 2010)

First directed attempt at making a shave soap, previously I used my regular cp but that was before i discovered wetshaving... soooo

Anyone made these (im talking the reeeeeal stuff thatll pass the 10min foam test)  before and care to take a gander.....

here is the recipe I thought up:

How does that sound for a shave soap?  (screencap from soapmaker3)













Thaaaanks


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## dagmar88 (Nov 21, 2010)

for shaving soap I'd go for a combo of naoh & koh.
http://www.snowdriftfarm.com/form_whippedsoaps.html


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## IanT (Nov 21, 2010)

how come?


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## judymoody (Nov 21, 2010)

This looks good to me.  When I did my research on shaving soaps on this forum, it suggested that castor oil and high stearic acid were essential to producing a creamy stable lather.  That you have here.  If you want to up the stearic even more from what you get from the cocoa butter, you could add a little palm or some stearic acid as an additive.

Let us know how it turns out!


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## xraygrl (Nov 21, 2010)

You have a decent start there. I second what Judy said, you gotta have the stearic for the stable lather, and you have a pretty good start with the cocoa  and shea butters. I'd be inclined to add some more stearic though, about 3% and subtract some of the lard. If doing cp you will have to soap at about 120 F (sorry I don't know celcius if that is what you use), and I'd use a weeker lye solution as well to counteract all the stearic and prevent a super fast trace.


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## IrishLass (Nov 21, 2010)

Looks like a pretty good start to me, too. It's actually not too far off in properties compared to my own shaving soap, the only major differences being that my stearic content is 20%, my ricinoleic is 22% and my oleic is 31%. The rest of my fatty acid profile matches yours with only a point or 2 difference here and there. Like xraygrl, I'd be inclined to bring your stearic up 3%, too, but who knows- your 17% might be just enough to do the trick. Let us know how it comes out!

IrishLass


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## mariflo (Nov 21, 2010)

dagmar88 said:
			
		

> for shaving soap I'd go for a combo of naoh & koh.
> http://www.snowdriftfarm.com/form_whippedsoaps.html



Yep, what Dagmar said. I make regular cream soap and add some goodies to it like clay and essential oils and stuff and my bf said he'd never seen that kind of lather before ...


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## IanT (Nov 21, 2010)

IrishLass said:
			
		

> Looks like a pretty good start to me, too. It's actually not too far off in properties compared to my own shaving soap, the only major differences being that my stearic content is 20%, my ricinoleic is 22% and my oleic is 31%. The rest of my fatty acid profile matches yours with only a point or 2 difference here and there. Like xraygrl, I'd be inclined to bring your stearic up 3%, too, but who knows- your 17% might be just enough to do the trick. Let us know how it comes out!
> 
> IrishLass



sweeet... 

I kinda tested a few of shave soaps (just to get a basis of what to expect/compare as far as lather etc)

now to get the stearic higher, whats the best way? Just add stearic acid? I have some I use for lotion-thickening, but I thought it was quite hard to work with in soaps etc... 

I think the silk would be cool too, never used that in soap but I ve also heard that one is quite nice


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## Deda (Nov 21, 2010)

Ian, I get shivers when I see soapmaker...

looks like a good recipe!


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## SudsyKat (Nov 21, 2010)

Deda said:
			
		

> Ian, I get shivers when I see soapmaker...
> 
> looks like a good recipe!



Deda - how come you get shivers???


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## Deda (Nov 21, 2010)

SudsyKat said:
			
		

> Deda said:
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It's such a great program.


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## ironbrewer (Nov 21, 2010)

Howdy Ian,

I saw the cross post to B&B. I've been experimenting with cream shaving soaps for about a year now. I know people love olive oil in soap over here, but the wetshavers aren't so enamored with it. I'ld ditch it. I'ld maybe cut down on the Shea butter, and cocoa butter and add a bit of stearic acid. You can just nuke it to melt it. Unless you want a soft soap I wouldn't add any KOH. If you want a cream go 75 to 95% KOH. I use Kaolin clay in my creams. It not only helps the slick, but I think it holds the FO's and EO's better as well. What does the sugar and silk do for it?? The rest of the recipe looks great.


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## IanT (Nov 21, 2010)

Deda said:
			
		

> SudsyKat said:
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lol shivers of loooooove 

I am absolutely in love with this program, as you can see I havent really input prices etc because im scared to see what I spend on this stuff in the testing phase lol, I figure Ill really take care of the inventory side of the program once I do decide to start selling stuff (not talking about shave soap at this point...those are just for me , just the cp stuff Ive been doing since I started here)





> Howdy Ian,
> 
> I saw the cross post to B&B. I've been experimenting with cream shaving soaps for about a year now. I know people love olive oil in soap over here, but the wetshavers aren't so enamored with it. I'ld ditch it. I'ld maybe cut down on the Shea butter, and cocoa butter and add a bit of stearic acid. You can just nuke it to melt it. Unless you want a soft soap I wouldn't add any KOH. If you want a cream go 75 to 95% KOH. I use Kaolin clay in my creams. It not only helps the slick, but I think it holds the FO's and EO's better as well. What does the sugar and silk do for it?? The rest of the recipe looks great.



Yeah its so crazy, I found that place on google... went over, registered, gathered so much info, bought my first razor, blades, the works... and I found out a few members here post etc lol i was like waaaaaooooahh small world! lol!!! crazy stuff!!! 

thanks for the advice!!  I figure its a heavy oil, like not a saturated heavy but mass-wise, and the unsaps mean it probably would screw with the lather because itd be heavier, less likely to fluff... is that what it does??? just my postulation... lol

as far as the sugar and silk, I just thought maybe for an extra bit of lather (sugar) and the silk because of the amino acids/proteins it adds... not sure how much actually makes it through the lye monster but ive heard it sworn by for CP soaps, so i figure ill give it a try (i figure im going to add it to a recipe i know first to see if i notice any differences ... then decide yae/nae on using it)

ive never worked with silk before so it should be interesting lol... i think its added to the lye solution...

Im kind of excited to try it ! 

alright im going to mess with the recipe and will post the update soon, and when i get around to making it ill be sure to post


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## IanT (Nov 22, 2010)

Alright, Hows this look now???

Stearic Acid up to 30% when you count additional+inherent Stearic content...

nixed OO, upped Castor and Lard...





Im going to give this a go tomorrow and see how it does 

Now as far as making soaps with KOH, havent even started on that route yet, thats a whollllle 'nother ballgame... I wonder if CP soap with NaOH can be made comparably?


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## BakingNana (Nov 22, 2010)

Too cool, Ian.  I use kaolin and silk in shave soap, and the lather is glossy, like meringue.  The stearic conversation got me to wondering about stability, because my percentage is so much lower than yours.  DH says it's plenty stable as it is.  I use palm where you are using lard, and good amount of cocoa butter, but even so SM3 says stearic is only 6.6 with Fluffy 4.6; Stable Lather 6.1; Moisturizing 6.4.

Can't wait to hear how it comes out.  Post pics of the lather if you get a chance.


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## soapbuddy (Nov 22, 2010)

Too much stearic acid by itself could make your soap seize. Just a heads up.


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## BakingNana (Nov 22, 2010)

soapbuddy said:
			
		

> Too much stearic acid by itself could make your soap seize. Just a heads up.



Didn't know that.  I've never used added stearic.  For future reference, how much is too much?  And evidently you can't sleep either, huh soapbuddy?  :wink:


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## soapbuddy (Nov 22, 2010)

BakingNana said:
			
		

> soapbuddy said:
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I put that recipe aside since it didn't work. As soon as I find it, I'll post how much extra stearic I used.


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## GardenGirl (Nov 30, 2010)

Does this recipe make a real soft bar?  Maybe real shaving soaps are quite soft?  

Did you make it, Ian?  How'd it turn out?


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## xraygrl (Nov 30, 2010)

Ian, 

I noticed that you have stearic listed as an extra additive there. Just a heads up in case you are not aware, stearic has to be calculated in with your oils as it has a sap value.


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## IanT (Nov 30, 2010)

xraygrl said:
			
		

> Ian,
> 
> I noticed that you have stearic listed as an extra additive there. Just a heads up in case you are not aware, stearic has to be calculated in with your oils as it has a sap value.



Really!?!?!?!?!

 welll thats a headache...... 

hmmmmm never worked with stearic in a soap, just in lotions ....

now how to work it out... hmmmm


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## djk17 (Dec 1, 2010)

Soapcalc.net gives NaOH and KOH SAP values for stearic acid; it is easy to calculate for your needs.  

what I have read: raising linoleic will increase stable lather, (with the caveat of perhaps increased danger of rancidity);  coconut cream/milk will give a boost to creamy lather; the Snowdrift Farms cream soap recipe has a salve-like texture as opposed to fluffy.

Still working on my cream soap and shaving soap.  Last year's testers liked my cp shaving soap and requested more, but I think cream soap is what I will aim for now.


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## Saltysteele (Dec 4, 2010)

i agree with mixing the two lye's.  the koh aligns the molecules differently than the naoh, and it also gives different values.

i've been meaning to do it for a while, but make a batch with koh, then rebatching it with naoh.

as much as i love lard, won't make soap without it (except a OMH recipe i have), you won't find many good shave soaps that use it, they all use tallow.  it is a firmer oil and reacts differently with koh (from what i'm told)


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## IanT (Dec 4, 2010)

GardenGirl said:
			
		

> Does this recipe make a real soft bar?  Maybe real shaving soaps are quite soft?
> 
> Did you make it, Ian?  How'd it turn out?



Came out VERY hard.... literally was hard within a few hours!!



> i agree with mixing the two lye's. the koh aligns the molecules differently than the naoh, and it also gives different values.
> 
> i've been meaning to do it for a while, but make a batch with koh, then rebatching it with naoh.
> 
> as much as i love lard, won't make soap without it (except a OMH recipe i have), you won't find many good shave soaps that use it, they all use tallow. it is a firmer oil and reacts differently with koh (from what i'm told)



I have heard the thing about tallow...didnt have any on hand but I am looking into getting some soon 

Ive also heard bout mixing NaOH and KOH but i have Nooooooooooo idea how or where to start with that, thats a totally new area for me... never even worked with KOH yet... 

This soap seems to have a nice lather, but seems to peter out after a few minutes.. I can hear the bubbles slowly popping... may be just cause I tried it the day after pouring it and needs to mellow out and evaporate some of the water content out of the soap, so Im going to keep testing it throughout the month; Ive never been one for patience in testing soaps...usually as soon as theyre cool i test them out to see how their qualities change over time (and I take extensive notes on all batches)

... so Ill let you know how it lathers in a month. It definitely was a thick lather but i may need to tinker with it...


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## Saltysteele (Dec 5, 2010)

i've never made it myself; can't stand going through all the motions and then being disappointed.

from what i gather, you'd make soap with your tallow and the potassium.  i've been told it does not turn liquidy like other oils with potassium - no clue, no personal experience.

then, you would rebatch that soap with your other oils, using only enough lye for the additional oils (you've already saponified the tallow).

a buddy had done a ton of research on it, but neither of us ended up trying it    

so, i just bought some tabac, the bigalow stuff from bath and body works (proraso relabeled) and a couple other big names.  tabac was objectionable to me at first, but i love the stuff now (the scent)


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## hieroglyph (Dec 5, 2010)

i eventually dropped the lard from all the shaving soap recipes i tried. (prolly 6-8 logs)the lather was thin.


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## CiCi (Jan 1, 2011)

Saltysteele said:
			
		

> i agree with mixing the two lye's.  the koh aligns the molecules differently than the naoh, and it also gives different values.
> 
> i've been meaning to do it for a while, but make a batch with koh, then rebatching it with naoh.
> 
> as much as i love lard, won't make soap without it (except a OMH recipe i have), you won't find many good shave soaps that use it, they all use tallow.  it is a firmer oil and reacts differently with koh (from what i'm told)



A question I have about the two lyes (KOH and NAOH)...how do you calculate them? SoapCalc will only do one or the other, so if I put in a recipe using NAOH, how will I know how much KOH to add in. I understand it is suppose to be slightly more than the NAOH. Do I calculate in SoapCalc and them divide the lye amounts in half? So confused.


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## soapbuddy (Jan 1, 2011)

CiCi said:
			
		

> Saltysteele said:
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Look for a lye calc that does cream soap as your starting point. I believe Summer Bee Meadow has one.


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## CiCi (Jan 5, 2011)

Thank you! I will check it out.


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