# Do polysorbates inhibit lather?



## Carl (May 21, 2019)

I'm making foamer bottles from my liquid soap.

I'm doing 37% liquid soap and 63% distilled H2O in my foamer bottle (works out to be 3 oz and 5 oz for total of 8 oz).  I'm then adding fragrance or essentials at about 1-3% depending on which one I use.  Some of them have started to separate.  Others have not. 

The ones that have separated, I started using an equal part of PS80 mixed with the scent.

But I noticed, the ones with the PS80, do not lather as well.

So

Do polysorbates inhibit lather in LS?


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## IrishLass (May 22, 2019)

I don't notice any lather inhibition in my liquid soap with PS80, but then again, I don't use foamer bottles or dilute my soap any thinner than a honey-like consistency.

PS80 is actually a surfactant with lathering abilities, which I found out when making clear linen or perfume sprays out of FO, vodka and water, e.g.- some of my FO's in my sprays needed more PS80 in comparison to other in order to emulsify things and make a clear spray (as opposed to cloudy), and those particular sprays always suds up when sprayed or shaken. 


IrishLass


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## BattleGnome (May 22, 2019)

I haven’t had any issues with PS80 and foamer bottles. I know there are some fragrances that can mess with consistency, maybe you have one of those. You could also adjust your ratio a bit, add more/less soap to see what happens


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## earlene (May 22, 2019)

I've used straight PS80 on my hair and it lathers okay, but not as well as when I then added actual shampoo to my hair, so it's not as  good a latherer as straight shampoo.  But it supposed to enhance lather, so I am just not sure that it would inhibit it, but perhaps the proportions play a role in that.

So perhaps the proportions are what has lead to a reduction in lather.  Maybe do as BattleGnome suggests and adjust your ratio & try less PS80 to see if it helps.


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## Zany_in_CO (May 25, 2019)

Carl said:


> Do polysorbates inhibit lather in LS?


No.   It's more likely that the FO is causing the separation. Polysorbates are "solubizers", i.e., they are used to make oils water-soluble.

I generally use 1 tablespoon of PS-80 to 1 teaspoon of FO/EO per 16 oz. of foamer soap. It's best to add the PS-80 to some water first. Stir until clear. Then add the FO/EO and stir to be sure it's completely incorporated before adding to the rest of the foamer soap batch. All FOs/EOs are not alike, so you may have to play with it a bit to see what works.

ETA: Polysorbate 80 has been discussed here many times. If you search "Polysorbate 80" quite a few links pop up. Here's just one: *Fun With Polysorbate 80*


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## msunnerstood (May 26, 2019)

Zany_in_CO said:


> No.   It's more likely that the FO is causing the separation. Polysorbates are "solubizers", i.e., they are used to make oils water-soluble.
> 
> I generally use 1 tablespoon of PS-80 to 1 teaspoon of FO/EO per 16 oz. of foamer soap. It's best to add the PS-80 to some water first. Stir until clear. Then add the FO/EO and stir to be sure it's completely incorporated before adding to the rest of the foamer soap batch. All FOs/EOs are not alike, so you may have to play with it a bit to see what works.
> 
> ETA: Polysorbate 80 has been discussed here many times. If you search "Polysorbate 80" quite a few links pop up. Here's just one: *Fun With Polysorbate 80*


I just made some oil cleanser with it.


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## Zany_in_CO (May 26, 2019)

msunnerstood said:


> I just made some oil cleanser with it.


Cool!


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## Arimara (May 26, 2019)

I accidently used Polysorbate 80 in my bar soap. I must say, that mistake lead to a superhard batch of soap. The lather was not lacking either.


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## earlene (May 26, 2019)

Arimara said:


> I accidently used Polysorbate 80 in my bar soap. I must say, that mistake lead to a superhard batch of soap. The lather was not lacking either.



In replace of what?  I searched to find a thread where you talked about this, but can't find it.  I am really curious about that soap!


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## msunnerstood (May 26, 2019)

earlene said:


> In replace of what?  I searched to find a thread where you talked about this, but can't find it.  I am really curious about that soap!


Im with you Earlene. I was searching the internet last night trying to find if anyone tried this.


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## Carl (May 26, 2019)

Zany_in_CO said:


> No.   It's more likely that the FO is causing the separation. Polysorbates are "solubizers", i.e., they are used to make oils water-soluble.
> 
> I generally use 1 tablespoon of PS-80 to 1 teaspoon of FO/EO per 16 oz. of foamer soap. It's best to add the PS-80 to some water first. Stir until clear. Then add the FO/EO and stir to be sure it's completely incorporated before adding to the rest of the foamer soap batch. All FOs/EOs are not alike, so you may have to play with it a bit to see what works.
> 
> ETA: Polysorbate 80 has been discussed here many times. If you search "Polysorbate 80" quite a few links pop up. Here's just one: *Fun With Polysorbate 80*



No separation at all in this particular test.  Lack of lather was the issue.


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## Zany_in_CO (May 26, 2019)

Carl said:


> No separation at all in this particular test.  Lack of lather was the issue.


Oh darn, I misunderstood...   In any case, if you add a bit of Poly 80 to water and give it a good stir, it lathers, so I don't think it's the problem... although it is an unusual coincidence. Hmmm.


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