# base not for lavender NOT patchouli



## green soap (Jan 24, 2013)

I usually anchor lavender EO with patchouli EO.  However, the world is divided into patchouli lovers and patchouli haters.  My labels have full disclosure of all EOs because of potential allergies, and even though I use patch in small amount, they see it there and think they smell it.  Maybe they do?  The patchouli lovers buy the soaps enthusiastically.  However, it seems like a majority of people love lavender, even though they might hate patchouli.  

So, is there another base note EO that is compatible with soap making (CP), and that would blend well with lavender 40/42 EO?  I have a good dozen base notes EOs, any suggestions?

TIA


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## Genny (Jan 24, 2013)

Personally, I love patch but really don't like lavender.
But I do like lavender with Peru Balsam.  Once in a while in I blend it with Ginger.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Jan 24, 2013)

I love Lavender with Rosewood (a bit pricy but AWESOME) and Lavender with Anise...but Anise is another love/hate scent (use less than 10% in the blend and it will not be so "licorice-y"). Lavender with Vetiver is very green and herbal (but not too much Vetiver! Less than 10%).


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## paillo (Jan 24, 2013)

I made some facial salt bars a few weeks ago with lavender and rosemary. Wasn't sure I'd like the result, but as it cures indeed I do - the greenness of the rosemary is a really nice complement to the lavender. I HATED patch for many years and have just recently rediscovered it, and now love, love, love it!


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## green soap (Jan 24, 2013)

Thanks for the excellent suggestions!  I love this forum.

I have Peru Balsam and vetiver at my fingertips.  Also Anise, but I want to blend Anise with something else first, since I am an anise virgin.  I have to see what it does 'sans' lavender.

I also use rosemary with lavender, glad to see another vote for it.  I think of rosemary and lavender both as middle notes, but I suppose rosemary has some base notes too?  lots of these EO are more than one note.  Another middle note I use with lavender is clary sage.

Unfortunately my ginger EO is the wet sock smelling variety, so i will use it in something I have done before, not to spoil my nice lavender soap...  

No rosewood here (I spent way too much on EOs in 2012....) but I have two kinds of cedar.  I also have lemongrass and litsea cubeba.  I am considering those two base notes but they might be a blend?


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## lsg (Jan 24, 2013)

You could also anchor the lavender with cosmetic clay.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Jan 24, 2013)

Lavender and Litsea are beautiful together! I use a blend of both in a balm I make.
Anise pairs well with Orange, and makes it sweeter and lighter...kindy of a fruity chewing gum smell. I have a salt soap with Anise, Clove, and Blood Orange and it converts a lot of the Anise haters :wink:


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## andoy (Jan 24, 2013)

I quite like Oakmoss, but it is an irritant/allergen and don't know if it will survive CP soap.

Cade is good for masculine scent. Again don't know if it will survive CP soap.

Thyme  in my opinion is such an underrated scent. It's more of a mixer than using on it's own.


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## green soap (Jan 24, 2013)

lsg said:


> You could also anchor the lavender with cosmetic clay.



What is cosmetic clay?  something like rose clay?  or bentonite clay?


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## green soap (Jan 24, 2013)

AlchemyandAshes said:


> Lavender and Litsea are beautiful together! I use a blend of both in a balm I make.
> Anise pairs well with Orange, and makes it sweeter and lighter...kindy of a fruity chewing gum smell. I have a salt soap with Anise, Clove, and Blood Orange and it converts a lot of the Anise haters :wink:



Ah good to know about litsea and lavender.  Anise, clove and orange!  wow this sounds good.  I don't have blood orange, but I have tangerine and over a gallon of sweet 10x orange.


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## paillo (Jan 24, 2013)

I use litsea and lavender together too, they blend wonderfully. And I ADORE white thyme with eucalyptus and lavender, but find that thyme is a major trace accelerant. Go lightly with it, as its very strong on its own anyway. Shawnee, your anise, clove and blood orange soap sounds divine


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## lsg (Jan 25, 2013)

green soap said:


> What is cosmetic clay?  something like rose clay?  or bentonite clay?


Any clay that is skin safe.


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## paillo (Jan 26, 2013)

I use a lot of French green, French pink, rose and yellow, and also Australian black clay, which is actually hematite. Sometimes I use bentonite, and want to experiment with some other more exotic clays.  I put Kaolin clay in everything, every single batch, then round it out with whatever other clay I want to use for color or properties. I'm a HUGE fan of clay in soap, obviously


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## paillo (Jan 26, 2013)

andoy said:


> I quite like Oakmoss, but it is an irritant/allergen and don't know if it will survive CP soap.
> 
> Cade is good for masculine scent. Again don't know if it will survive CP soap.
> 
> Thyme  in my opinion is such an underrated scent. It's more of a mixer than using on it's own.



Andoy, would love to hear more of your favorites, sounds like you like some of the unusual ones and are well versed in them.


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## sagehill (Jan 26, 2013)

Paillo, I like clays for colorants too. Do you find they increase tracing though?


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## paillo (Jan 26, 2013)

sagehill said:


> Paillo, I like clays for colorants too. Do you find they increase tracing though?



yes, i do find that they increase trace, because i add them pretty liberally .  so i soap pretty cool and almost always with just a wire whisk. my poor stick blender hasn't seen action in months -- the wire whisk really does the job.

i also learned from my painter/builder spouse that the best way to mix with a wire whisk when you're incorporating heavier elements is with a constant lifting motion, lifting and mixing the clay, which tends to sink to the bottom.  this helps emulsify the oils so you don't wind up with a loaf that oozes oils from inadequate mixing.  important too to  keep it all beneath the surface so you don't get air bubbles.  it took me a while to get the hang of it, but i swear by this trick.  hth!


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## green soap (Jan 26, 2013)

andoy said:


> I quite like Oakmoss, but it is an irritant/allergen and don't know if it will survive CP soap.
> 
> Cade is good for masculine scent. Again don't know if it will survive CP soap.
> 
> Thyme  in my opinion is such an underrated scent. It's more of a mixer than using on it's own.



I have stared at thyme many times when ordering EOs.  I think it is going to make it to my next purchase, which I am trying to hold off for a few more weeks....trying to resist.  

The other two are unknown to me, so I will research them and expand my horizons.  Thank you!


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## green soap (Jan 26, 2013)

paillo said:


> I use a lot of French green, French pink, rose and yellow, and also Australian black clay, which is actually hematite. Sometimes I use bentonite, and want to experiment with some other more exotic clays.  I put Kaolin clay in everything, every single batch, then round it out with whatever other clay I want to use for color or properties. I'm a HUGE fan of clay in soap, obviously



I just have used rose and bentonite.  Still curing the soap that has rose, so not sure how it will affect the feel of it.  The bentonite is only for the shave soaps.  I decided to try rose clay for color mostly, just because paprika infusions are annoying the heck out of me (talk about speeding trace).  Plus, the light versions do a disappearing act (fade).  I have read that the clays do not fade.  I am eager to learn more about what clay does for soap, other than color.


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## judymoody (Jan 26, 2013)

Do you ever do lavender straight up?  I find that it sticks alright but it depends on which lavender you are using.  I usually go for something economical in CP soap like 40/42 or I blend with lavandin grosso.

Eucalyptus is nice with lavender as is rosemary (already mentioned) or a blend of the three.  Rosewood is too rich for my blood, but I have used amyris, cedar, and ho wood to good effect.  Anise and lavender did not work for my nose but there are many folks who love it.  I like anise a lot but it takes over a blend, especially as the soap cures.  I generally use it at no more than 20% of a blend and it comes through loud and clear.

Love lavender mixed with 5x lemon and a bit of litsea.

Vetiver is also nice, in very small amounts, maybe 5-10% of your blend.

Finally, lavender and tea tree.  Some folks find it slightly medicinal smelling - to me it smells very fresh and clean.

I know you want to get away from patch but I love the blend of lavender, folded orange, cedar and patch.

Hope this helps!


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## paillo (Jan 26, 2013)

I do a lot of straight-up lavender because I have so many requests for it and it's consistently one of my best sellers. I get really bored with making it, and have had fun with lavender and pink or rose clays, and I personally love lavender and spearmint and have made a good bit of that. But -- sigh -- what most of my customers want is plain classic lavender.


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## green soap (Jan 26, 2013)

Plain classic lavender is a possibility, why not?  I should do at least one soap this way.


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## andoy (Jan 26, 2013)

I'm fairly new to fragrances and ironically I don't use any fragrances myself. I've only started using some of my concoctions for test purposes.

I don't really stick to rules in using fragrances. So I don't think of them as top/middle/base. I visualise them as a shape or curve arriving in a wave (like a spectrograph) with impact they have on the senses. Just like a pianist pressing several keys simultaneously (imagine if he/she has as many fingers as there are keys in a piano). The sound arrives as one combined wave of energy.

Some scents are more round (a clump of notes closer in melody played together). E.g. geranium, tuberose, amber, musk, vanilla, coumarin ... impression of gentle hum, relaxing/mellow

While some scent are sharp jolts (a few keys on there own or at diverse ends of spectrum played together). E.g. black pepper, ginger, lime, white birch, aniseed ...they feel like a sharp spice or sudden sound or a wake up!

Many scents have an elements of both. They are all valid, but too many round scents mixed together can create a plain or non-descript aroma (using the musical analogy, a bit like Enya). Too many contrasting sharp notes feels random and perceived as noise (a bit like heavy metal). The combined shape can consist of top/middle/base, but it isn't essential to use the full range to have a good scent.

p.s. nothing against Enya or heavy metal LOL!

here is a bit of Enya to meditate to... [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOtQ2vMxOl0[/ame]


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## paillo (Jan 26, 2013)

great analogies, love this!

i am, ahem, a fan of heavy metal myself, i like to think of some of it having roots in opera or mahler. love this hijack, andoy 

so do you do aromatherapy work? curious as to how you have such a refined nose for scents without actually using them! and, imho, you don't know what you're missing if you don't use them in products you make


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## andoy (Jan 26, 2013)

LOL no background whatsoever. I have only been doing soaps for a year. My background is in IT and finance, but gave up the rat race to live a rather unconventional life :O

I have a cupboard full of fragrance. I'e been trying to figure out how to mix them for my liquid soaps and came up with all sort of disgusting scents. I don't think I have "le nez" as the French call it. I think anyone can learn. I am still learning myself. 

p.s. I knew heavy metal fans aren't as easily offended as Enya fans.


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## Yill (Mar 15, 2013)

Hi everyone,

As a newbie in soap making (wanting to create a lavender soap) I find this thread very useful!
I only purchased lavender eo, but do you think it's better to anchor lavender with another eo? Read that some of you use only lavender, but I don't want my scent to fade quickly. Thanks!


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## paillo (Mar 15, 2013)

One of the beauties of lavender is that you do not need to anchor it


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## Seifenblasen (Mar 15, 2013)

The three blends I do most often where lavender is the prominent note are straight lavender, lavender with a wee bit of geranium, and lavender with bergamot.  The lavender and geranium is going strong after 12 months (in a batch of castile that I plan to age for 18 to 24 months).


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## Lolly58 (Mar 15, 2013)

One of my best sellers is lavender combined with ylang ylang


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## soap_rat (Mar 15, 2013)

I like lavender and palmarosa.


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## cliff (Mar 15, 2013)

I do not understand much about blending scents, but I definitely want to learn. I did mix peppermint and tea tree once in a castile. I've also done a straight up lavender. 

I currently have lavender and patchouli EO's and would like to blend them in a batch tomorrow if possible.  Can someone tell me how much of both to combine and how much of that blend to use ppo?


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## Yill (Mar 16, 2013)

This is a nice article on essential oils and blending, it's from Back Porch Soap Company: http://backporchsoap.blogspot.nl/2010/01/top-five-essential-oils-for-soap-making.html


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## AlchemyandAshes (Mar 16, 2013)

cliff said:


> I do not understand much about blending scents, but I definitely want to learn. I did mix peppermint and tea tree once in a castile. I've also done a straight up lavender.
> 
> I currently have lavender and patchouli EO's and would like to blend them in a batch tomorrow if possible.  Can someone tell me how much of both to combine and how much of that blend to use ppo?



It's really personal preference, but I'd start with 2 parts Lavender to 1 part Patchouli (more masculine). If its too much Patchouli to your nose, try 3 parts Lavender to 1 part Patchouli, etc...the more Lavender you add, the more "feminine" the scent will become, though Lavender & Patchouli can be a unisex scent, of course.

This forum suggest 3% Total EO (of base oil weight) usage rate. Lavender and Patchouli are generally safe, with the exception of allergies and sensitivities of course, and can be used at slightly higher rates in my experience.


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## liafrank (Mar 16, 2013)

You're right. Some people are really turned off by patchouli. My mother dislikes being in the same room with someone who has used a mildly fragranced patchouli soap. On the other hand, I absolutely adore lavender patchouli soap. I suppose I would simply keep the patchouli soaps well away from the other soaps so as not to put some of your customers off. Additionally as many have commented, I think lavender works well with just about any citrusy fragrance, and perfectly well on its own.


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## S_S (Mar 16, 2013)

Ohh!  My boyfriend and I have had many conversations about patchouli.  I love it, he loathes it.  He says it smells like some kind of dirty hippie salve (whatever that means).  

I do not have enough experience to say what scent mixes well with what, as in ratios, but I do know that I really like lavender and ginger together.


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## green soap (Mar 16, 2013)

A friend of mine describes it as 'a damp basement - rusty pipe type of smell'

I suppose it has elements of both, so it is hard to figure what us patchouli lovers find so appealing about it.


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## Mish (Mar 19, 2013)

Hello,  I love both lavender and patchouli.  As far as lavender essential oils go I really like the lavender 40/42 the most... I am not a fan of French lavender... Speaking separately from lavender though... Have you tried patchouli with either orange or grapefruit?  I absolutely love orange and patchouli mixed together... the citrus really takes the edge off of the earthy smell... I've also used patchouli, grapefruit and rose together and really liked the results.  Oo and vanilla lavender or lavender lemon..


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## cliff (Mar 20, 2013)

I personally like the smell of patchouli. Before I ever smelled it someone had described it to me as being a cheap sandalwood. I'm not sure how close of a description that is, though.  I don't have any sandalwood to be able to compare. I doubt I ever will have any sandalwood EO being how insanely expensive it is. Plus I think I read somewhere that sandalwood is endangered.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Mar 20, 2013)

cliff said:


> Before I ever smelled it someone had described it to me as being a cheap sandalwood. I'm not sure how close of a description that is, though. .


Not close at all...even to most "unrefined sniffers", in my opinion. Patchouli is more earthy and sometimes smoky, where Sandalwood is kind of sweet and, obviously, woodsy 
I love them both for different uses...but yes, Sandalwood is wildly expensive, and is becoming endangered. I think NDA offers a "nature identical" Sandalwood oil. Amyris is called "Poor Man's Sandalwood", and maybe it's similar, but I don't think it's close enough to be used as a substitute...but it is nice on it's own account.


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