# Kidney diet for cats



## navigator9 (Feb 22, 2016)

I took my cat with the thyroid problem back to the vet to have her bloodwork checked, and it was good news/bad news. Good news, her thyroid levels are so good that we can cut that med in half. Bad news, her kidney values are not so good, so she needs to start on a kidney diet. Really bad news, an 8.5 lb. bag of Hill's Science KD diet costs $42.99, and the little one serving cans are $1.38 apiece. I've looked online, but I can't find it cheaper by more than a couple of dollars, and then with shipping, it's even more. So I was wondering if by any chance someone out there may know of a source where it's cheaper. I'm not holding out much hope, but you never know, unless you ask. Keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## osso (Feb 22, 2016)

No, the stuff is expensive. The Hill's reps often give out coupons though, $10 or $15 sometimes. If I get my hands on some I'll be happy to send them your way (pet store perks).


----------



## navigator9 (Feb 22, 2016)

osso said:


> No, the stuff is expensive. The Hill's reps often give out coupons though, $10 or $15 sometimes. If I get my hands on some I'll be happy to send them your way (pet store perks).



Thanks osso, that would be much appreciated.


----------



## Susie (Feb 22, 2016)

Your vet also gets free KD and many coupons (my sister-in-law's mother worked at one for many years).  Ask them if they would be so kind as to save you some coupons.  Explain to them that this is too expensive for your current budget, and you may have to either feed the cat regular food, or put her down.


----------



## dixiedragon (Feb 22, 2016)

Is making your own food an option? Canned food is very expensive! I was googling these same issues and according to my research, it is the high-protein foods that are hard on their kidneys, especially as they age. 

I feed Orijen, which has the highest fat content of any dry food. (Also the most expensive, sigh). In your shoes, I would do some research on making your own food and ask  your vet what he/she thinks. For example, maybe you can get some lard or tallow, or even suet, and mix that with your food?


----------



## Serene (Feb 22, 2016)

Navigator,

This site will be helpful.  http://www.felinecrf.org 
  My Evan died last year.  He was diagnosed when he was 8 years old and lived to be 18.   

I am not going to give you a brand name to buy but I never went with any of the prescribed food.   Here are the guidelines I followed:



No fish ever. Phosphorus has to be low.        Ideally you want a food with a level of 0.5% or lower.  
Very limited dry food.  I had to put all 3 of my cats on a schedule.  The food needs to be low in protein.  Protein                     28.8 or lower
Wet food once or twice a day..   I feed them twice a day.  Morning and late afternoon. It helps increase the water intake.
No wheat, no corn, no soy
There are plenty of other options that are cheaper you just have to look for it.   

There is also the option of feeding raw.  I was not able to make that work due to having a cat with sensitive stomach that could not deal with raw.


Here are pictures of my Evan.  I miss him so much.


Sere

Disclaimer:  I am not a Vet.  Please do your research.  What worked for my cat may not necessarily work for others.  It is always smart to consult with your Vet and see if he or she is willing to work with you with another alternative other than the prescribed food.   I am lucky that I have a Vet that has been willing to work with me in all aspects of keeping my cats healthy.  She allows me to have a say and is not afraid to tell me when I am acting like the crazy cat lady.   Having a good Vet that is not in it for the money is paramount to helping you make smart decisions in regards to what is best for your cat.


----------



## dixiedragon (Feb 22, 2016)

Serene - what a gorgeous cat! Look at those big beautiful ears! And those green green eyes!


----------



## kchaystack (Feb 22, 2016)

My Karma (a 18yo black tabby) is on Hills.  He was on the KD for a bit, but it caused him to have horrible tummy troubles.  He also would not eat more than half a can at a time.  So we switched him to WD.  He has to have wet food (he only has 3 teeth left) and it is about $43 a case.  He has 2 cans a day - tho he would eat more - but that makes him sick to his stomach. 

Last time i went they had some coupons - now that I know about them I will ask.  

I have read about making your own food.  While I would be happy to do this - the amount of time required to do this is huge.  I just do not have the time to do it.


----------



## Stacy (Feb 22, 2016)

I recently lost one of my fur babies with kidney issues so I've done a lot of research on food.

I will preface this with a couple of things. Food research will drive you INSANE. There is so much information (and misinformation) out there.

Vets aren't always the unbiased source of information you would hope they were. This is NOTHING against Vets who, for the most part, probably got into their field because of the desire to help animals. It's just that the education system is set up and paid for in many ways by commercial food companies that give them minimal training on nutrition and teach them to rely on prescription pet foods. Yes, I know some people consider this tinfoil hat territory, but there are a lot surprising facts on this.

Many of the ingredients in the expensive prescription foods are the same/worse than other sources.

That being said, after making myself insane, I realized that the best I could do was research, talk to my vet and come up with a plan I was comfortable with.  

My google search started with "prescription feline kidney diet alternatives" and never seemed to end 

In the end, if you're interested in alternatives to the food itself it's a journey you'll have to take to figure out what you're comfortable with and what makes sense to you.

Just a couple of quick notes on the off chance you decide to go this route. From what I learned, one of the most important things with kidney health is keeping the cat hydrated. This means no dry food since that actually dehydrates them more. Cats tend to have a very low thirst drive, the best way to get water into them is through their food.

If you decide to make your own food, run from any site that doesn't talk about things like taurine and other supplements that may need to be added. 



> Taurine is a naturally occurring amino acid mostly found in muscle meat  and organs like heart, kidney and liver and in seafood. In muscles,  taurine gets more concentrated the harder the muscle works.





> Taurine  deficiency is most commonly seen in cats who are given dog food in  their diet or home made diets which are not adequately supplemented.  Taurine  begins to degrade when cooked, especially in water. If you are feeding a  home prepared diet, please speak to your veterinarian to ensure that  all your cat's nutritional needs are being met.




Best of luck with whatever road you decide to take. Having sick pets is never easy.


----------



## dixiedragon (Feb 22, 2016)

@ Stacy - I've actually heard the same thing. of course, they could also be biased, but most pet store people I've talked to have a lot of disdain for Hill's. Hill's spends a lot of time and money educating and "educating" vet students, wining and dining them during their college years, etc.

@kchaystack - you say it is very time consuming - I'm just curious how? In your shoes, I would join some cat forums, get some tentative recipes, then run them by your vet. I'd think you could grind the stuff up in your food process and freeze it in individual portions? So you could make enough food for several months at one time? (Unless your freezer space is very limited).


----------



## navigator9 (Feb 22, 2016)

Susie said:


> Your vet also gets free KD and many coupons (my sister-in-law's mother worked at one for many years). .



Good idea, thanks.



dixiedragon said:


> Is making your own food an option? Canned food is very expensive! I was googling these same issues and according to my research, it is the high-protein foods that are hard on their kidneys, especially as they age.



I've been checking that out online, and it looks like you need to add a lot of supplements to the food you prepare, so that it probably ends up being as expensive as the commercial food, but I'm going to talk to my vet about that further.



Serene said:


> Navigator,
> 
> This site will be helpful.  http://www.felinecrf.org
> My Evan died last year.  He was diagnosed when he was 8 years old and lived to be 18.



Thanks so much for that site, loads of great info there. And thanks for the pics of your Evan, such a beautiful boy. I know how hard it is to miss them, but I believe we'll see them again. 



kchaystack said:


> My Karma (a 18yo black tabby) is on Hills.  He was on the KD for a bit, but it caused him to have horrible tummy troubles.  He also would not eat more than half a can at a time.  So we switched him to WD.  He has to have wet food (he only has 3 teeth left) and it is about $43 a case.  He has 2 cans a day - tho he would eat more - but that makes him sick to his stomach.



Mimi is on both the dry Hills Science kidney diet, and the canned Hills. She seems to love the canned, and tolerates the dry. It's only been a short time, so we'll see how it goes. She still gets medication twice a day, and another every third day. I'm thinking about mixing the wet with the dry, because I mix her meds in with her food, and I want to be sure she eats it all, and gets the meds. 
We love them, so it's all worth it. I wish you luck with your Karma!


----------



## kchaystack (Feb 22, 2016)

The recipes that I found talked about grinding bone and long prep times.  Plus, it did not freeze well - and I only have one small freezer on top of my fridge.  I do not remember all of it as it was 3 years ago that I looked.  I do have more time now - but he is doing well on the vet food.  I am able to afford it.  So I will spend the time I would spend in the kitchen petting him.  haha


----------



## lenarenee (Feb 22, 2016)

Navigator,  (Sorry, this is a long post and may be more info than you wanted)

If your kitty has crf, then the website that Serene mentioned is a fantastic resource. Also, check with Cornell University veterinary school website where they're researching kidney disease.

The amount of information, and the amount of disagreement regarding treatment can be overwhelming.  

My Sheba had crf for 4 years, died at 18 and NOT because of her kidneys. '

Here's an extremely short version of my experience:

Hills, Purina, Eukanuba, Royal Canin have kidney formulas for cats. 3 years ago, Hills KD was filled with all sorts of crap that I wouldn't have normally let my cat eat. Hopefully their formula has improved.

Veterinarians get very little training in nutrition - and often what they get is taught by .....cat food company reps!!!  I stopped seeing one vet because she didn't understand why she was telling me to feed my cat Royal Canin kidney food!

*Quality of protein can be more important than the quantity. This has to do with how the protein is digested, and what amino acids the cat's body needs most. 

*Phosphorous (and something else..another mineral?) is also an extremely important factor in kidney disease.  

*Cat food company websites have lots of info on nutrition and renal disease....but verify it! Hills website was filled with bad info about 5 years ago. (I can't recommend Tanya's crf website or Cornell University enough!)


Making your own cat food is_ extremely_ complicated and involves exacting amounts of vitamins and minerals. Ideally, homemade food should be lab tested to ensure the nutrient content because a lack of taurine and other things are deadly to a cat. Its very easy to malnourish a cat on homemade cat food. I gave it up.

My cat would _not_ eat the kidney diet foods, despite mixing them with "real" food and whatever tricks we could come up with.  I fed her what she would eat. For a while, it was high quality cat food with no grains or vegetables (cats are obligate carnivores). When she quit eating that, all she would eat was fish flavored Fancy Feast (fish=bad for kidneys, Fancy Feast=crappy quality food)

I really stressed over food choices and spent tons of money on every single honking food ever made, and still ended up with Fancy Feast. The vet gave me the option of force feeding her the RX food. I did that once. Then I realized I would not want to be treated that way. I choose her quality of live, over quantity of life.

I stopped stressing.

The last 3 months of her life she ate cat treats and homemade cooked chicken liver. She died of what we think was cancer. When she didn't enjoy her life, we helped end it.

I gave her subcutaneous fluids 3 times a week. It's a bit of a controversial therapy because supposedly it is more work on the kidneys. However, it can help the cat feel better because more toxins are washed out, and helps with the dehydration. 

The kidney disease may worsen her thyroid condition later.

Crf can cause excess stomach acid (my cat ended up on famotidine). Not all acid blockers are safe for cats - and not all vets know which one is best!

Feel free to ask questions.

Sorry you and your cat have to deal with this. And don't forget to look into the other kidney formulas and prices.  Let us know how it goes.


----------



## Arimara (Feb 22, 2016)

Have you checked chewy.com? They were a life saver in terms of cat litter (I'm not one for walking a mile home with a 40lb bag of litter, lol) and shipping is free at the $50 (otherwise, they have a flat-rate shipping). There are also some alternatives to feeding Hill's as well,as far as dry and canned are concerned but it may take  some leg work and some research on your end. I say this only because Hill's is overpriced and just horrible in regards to having corn/wheat in pet foods. Here's another page to check out: http://www.catinfo.org/?link=cannedfoods


----------



## Arimara (Feb 22, 2016)

kchaystack said:


> The recipes that I found talked about grinding bone and long prep times.  Plus, it did not freeze well - and I only have one small freezer on top of my fridge.  I do not remember all of it as it was 3 years ago that I looked.  I do have more time now - but he is doing well on the vet food.  I am able to afford it.  So I will spend the time I would spend in the kitchen petting him.  haha



Not to double post but if that's what you mean, there's a company that sells supplement packets that include the calcium needed for your cat. All you need are the organ meats (maybe, don't quote me) and the meat itself. It could still take a while but not the length of time needed to grind up bones. Or, at the very least, look in to Bravo! when they are not having one of their recalls going on.


----------



## lenarenee (Feb 22, 2016)

osso said:


> No, the stuff is expensive. The Hill's reps often give out coupons though, $10 or $15 sometimes. If I get my hands on some I'll be happy to send them your way (pet store perks).


 
Yes and doesn't that tell you exactly how massively overpriced it is??? Taking advantage of pet owners with ill cats!!

My last veterinarian refused to carry Hills because 1) it was crappy quality, 2) they were part of the huge pet food recall for melanine and slow to recall despite illness and death of pets 3) exorbitant prices

Fancy Feast's company, by the way as of 2015 bought fish from overseas suppliers that use slave labor.


----------



## Serene (Feb 22, 2016)

Lenarenee,

I went through 4 vets before I found the one I have been using for years.   A couple of them "fired" me because I refused to feed Evan Science diet. It is so hard to find a good Vet that truly cares.
One of the Vets went so far  as to taste the food himself when he opened a can to show me how "safe" the food was. He could not understand what my issue with the food was.  I put Evan in the carrier and told him to call me in a week and be sure to tell me how he felt after eating that food for a week for breakfast, lunch and dinner.    The look was priceless.   

Sere


----------



## lenarenee (Feb 22, 2016)

Serene said:


> Lenarenee,
> 
> I went through 4 vets before I found the one I have been using for years. A couple of them "fired" me because I refused to feed Evan Science diet. It is so hard to find a good Vet that truly cares.
> One of the Vets went so far as to taste the food himself when he opened a can to show me how "safe" the food was. He could not understand what my issue with the food was. I put Evan in the carrier and told him to call me in a week and be sure to tell me how he felt after eating that food for a week for breakfast, lunch and dinner. The look was priceless.
> ...


 
Oh wow!  Wish I had a picture of that!  That was definitely a doctor that hadn't educated himself on feline nutrition and simply went with the status quo. 

I couldn't believe the sight and smell of the Hill's Science diet kidney formula - the food was dead gray - and smelled worse. No cat food looks or smells good to humans but the Hill's was just miserable!

Yes, finding a veterinarian that works with you, instead of dictating to you can be difficult. I found the perfect one in Maryland, but then had to move to CA. Brought all the records and such with me, and went through 4 more vets who refused the records and crf diagnosis and wanted to start the exams process all over.  Finally found an excellent vet who honored my wish for my cat's comfort and happiness over doing all possible treatments (including kidney transplant!).  In the end, she told me she would have made the same choices for her cat that I made. 

The final moments of my cat's life were outside the vet's office under a quiet shady tree. She rested in the leaves - relaxing away from the smells and sounds of a doctor's office. I got to hold her, and it was an effortless death. What more could I ask for?


----------



## lenarenee (Feb 22, 2016)

Stacy said:


> I recently lost one of my fur babies with kidney issues so I've done a lot of research on food.
> 
> I will preface this with a couple of things. Food research will drive you INSANE. There is so much information (and misinformation) out there.
> 
> ...


 

Well said, and good info!


----------



## lenarenee (Feb 22, 2016)

It's  almost the 2 year anniversary.  

Sheba


----------



## fuzz-juzz (Feb 22, 2016)

I'm sorry about your kitty 
I hope that she will be on the mend with the right care.

From my research, kibble could be one of the causes of kidney disease in cats. 
Convenience of it (it can sit in their food bowl all day) and price is what we all go for. But the lack of proper nutrients and fluid in it, it's what's really not good for cats.

I am sure you only want the best for your cat and I do like most of us good cat owners is to follow vet's advice.
I'm not going to repeat what many have said already, but I also had experience with VERY biased vet's when it comes to pet food. It was Hill's Science or nothing for them. I was told off by few vet's for my choice of feeding partly raw to my 2 kittens but it's my choice and I can see they are thriving on it. Cat's bodies are designed to eat protein, bones. i.e. meat.

They've been with us for a bit over 2 months, I've been feeding them sort of half raw, half commercial. My plan is maybe to go fully raw but I will see how they go with it, since they are growing up to be a bit fussy.  They will happily eat chicken, chicken hearts, chicken liver, beef, but won't eat kangaroo (which I'm sad about it's such a great lean meat), pork, etc. It makes up half or whole of their lunch and dinner. For breakfast it's commercial only. They get bit of kibble, but only before bed as a snack to settle them or if there is a long break between breakfast and lunch. It's something crunchy on their teeth (they still can't handle bones) and I realise, a bit of it, probably won't do much harm. I'm not adding any calcium to their raw as of yet since they get some commercial food but will look into it soon. 

All raw meat I source is human grade as those prepackaged pet meat is often filled with preservatives that kill vital nutrients. I fill about 5-6 zip lock baggies at the time and they are set for quite a few weeks. I make portion size balls of meat and defrost few every morning.

I feed them fish, but only once every maybe 7-10 days. Human grade salmon or sardines in water only. They go CRAZY for it, they sniff around a house for ages looking for more, it's worse than catnip haha. But it's a treat and bit of extra Omega 3s for them. 

Our previous cat died last year, he was 17 and in really good health until big C came and took him away in 3 weeks. No meds, no other health problems, maybe a bit of cat dementia but that comes with age. He was feed raw, Fancy feast and bit of kibble, as a snack or treat. Kibble was never left out for him to nibble all day.

I'm sorry if I kept on rambling but this is what I am really passionate about and have spend days researching after we got two young kittens. I just want to get it right for them as well.  I'm not a vet also but a crazy cat lady. Take my ramblings with a grain of salt.

I hope your kitty will be better with your help and like previous posters said, please look at the other options too.


----------



## dixiedragon (Feb 22, 2016)

Okay, this is super duper gross (sorry), but I am wondering if it might be price effective to order snake food (frozen dead mice, I think also frozen dead chicks) and puree that?


----------



## kchaystack (Feb 22, 2016)

Yeah, I volenteered at a rescue for raptors for a winter.  If I never have to gut, skin and bone another cold rat again, it will be toooooo soon.   Injured birds should never be given fur, intestines or bones - they are too hard for them to digest.  :sick:


----------



## lenarenee (Feb 22, 2016)

There are specialized pet supply stores that sell food grade frozen ground rabbit, and raw foods (I don't know if the raw foods were complete with all necessary feline nutrients). There is a privately owned butcher shop in CA that makes raw pet food on the side. There's probably other private places that do the same its just hard to find them.

Navigator will have to decide what works best for her and her cat - good luck to you.


----------



## osso (Feb 23, 2016)

lenarenee said:


> Yes and doesn't that tell you exactly how massively overpriced it is??? Taking advantage of pet owners with ill cats!!
> 
> My last veterinarian refused to carry Hills because 1) it was crappy quality, 2) they were part of the huge pet food recall for melanine and slow to recall despite illness and death of pets 3) exorbitant prices
> 
> Fancy Feast's company, by the way as of 2015 bought fish from overseas suppliers that use slave labor.



Totally agree! Without a doubt they are overpriced and full of poor quality ingredients.

Fancy Feast contains a lot of the generic "meat by-products" which could be almost anything. Fancy marketing.


----------



## dixiedragon (Feb 23, 2016)

@fuzz-juzz - My cat (the one who passed last December) would NOT eat anything wet! I think it came from us using it to hide pills? No sardines (in water or in olive oil), no tuna, no cottage cheese, no yogurt, no mayo, no lard. (the mayo and lard were tried in desperation).


----------



## Stacy (Feb 23, 2016)

Did you know that the worst enablers for dry food are the dry food companies?



> One  reason  that  cats  like  dry  food  so  much  is  because  the  pet  food  companies  do  not  play  fair  when manufacturing  this  sub-optimal  food  source.   They  coat  the  kibble  with  extremely  enticing  animal  digest sprays which are very pleasing to a cat - making a poor quality diet very desirable to the target animal.



For anyone else that has this issue, this is a REALLY good read on getting your cat to eat canned food: http://www.catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf

I love the whole catinfo site. It's run by a vet who is very passionate about cat health.


----------



## fuzz-juzz (Feb 23, 2016)

dixiedragon said:


> @fuzz-juzz - My cat (the one who passed last December) would NOT eat anything wet! I think it came from us using it to hide pills? No sardines (in water or in olive oil), no tuna, no cottage cheese, no yogurt, no mayo, no lard. (the mayo and lard were tried in desperation).



Wow he was really determined then 
Mine would eat anything covered in butter or cream. Like worming tablets.
Cat that passed away was a rescue and he only ate Fancy Feast stuff. Put anything else in his plate and he just walks away. He would rather starve than try other wet foods. He loved raw though.


----------



## navigator9 (Feb 23, 2016)

Thanks to all of you for your concern and the information you provided. I'm continuing to research, so much info out there, often conflicting, but I'm sure in the end, we'll figure out what works best for us. Mimi says thank you!


----------



## Arimara (Feb 23, 2016)

Serene said:


> Lenarenee,
> 
> I went through 4 vets before I found the one I have been using for years.   A couple of them "fired" me because I refused to feed Evan Science diet. It is so hard to find a good Vet that truly cares.
> One of the Vets went so far  as to taste the food himself when he opened a can to show me how "safe" the food was. He could not understand what my issue with the food was.  I put Evan in the carrier and told him to call me in a week and be sure to tell me how he felt after eating that food for a week for breakfast, lunch and dinner.    The look was priceless.
> ...



Eww, Really? That's just gross and borderline stupid (who puts grey matter into their mouths to try it?) if not outright. But the same with many of our doctors and thei lack of nutrition info, a lot of vets are trained  to endorse dry-only foods, especially for cats thanks to schools (like Cornell) that are heavily endorsed by major companies. I've learned to take what they say with a grain of salt.



lenarenee said:


> Oh wow!  Wish I had a picture of that!  That was definitely a doctor that hadn't educated himself on feline nutrition and simply went with the status quo.
> 
> I couldn't believe the sight and smell of the Hill's Science diet kidney formula - the food was dead gray - and smelled worse. No cat food looks or smells good to humans but the Hill's was just miserable!
> 
> ...



Sadly, I have to disagree there. There's only one food that I can name that looked like it would be palatable enough and that was Weruva's paw lickin chicken. It even smelled good compared to many other foods I tried and my former cat LOVED IT. I had to add water to pates to get her to eat canned after she had the weruva though.


----------



## lenarenee (Feb 23, 2016)

osso said:


> Totally agree! Without a doubt they are overpriced and full of poor quality ingredients.
> 
> Fancy Feast contains a lot of the generic "meat by-products" which could be almost anything. Fancy marketing.


 

Also something owners should know, is that pet food companies can legally use "downer" animal carcasses - sick, or animals that died from illness to make pet food.

The reason I know so much about topic isn't because I did all the research, but because my friend lost 2 pets to tainted pet food and was involved in a legal proceedings with the manufacturer. She was more than happy to educate any pet owner that would listen.


----------



## CTAnton (Feb 23, 2016)

this thread has come at an interesting time for me. I've been ordering Flint River kibble for years and they went out of business so I'm looking for a new food. They do get their Fancy Feast for breakfast but after that its kibble in the bowl. Only thing I'm looking for is a larger can; there are 5 here. There was only supposed to be 3 but the last one in the house, the one I thought for sure was a male, surprised me by being pregnant when he(she) went to the vet. 5 different personalities for the combined weight of one large dog.....


----------



## CaraBou (Feb 24, 2016)

Mimi is a sweetheart! I'm glad you are there to take good care of her.



Stacy said:


> For anyone else that has this issue, this is a REALLY good read on getting your cat to eat canned food: http://www.catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf
> 
> I love the whole catinfo site. It's run by a vet who is very passionate about cat health.



I am concerned about this article suggesting to feed cats chicken or beef broth without clarifying that it should not have garlic or onions in it (as almost every commercial broth does).  These human foods (and others) can damage a cat's red blood cells, create "Heinz bodies", and make your cat very sick.  I learned this the hard way after trying to increase water consumption by my dear old cat.  Luckily the vet caught it and we were able to turn things around fairly quickly. The funny thing (not haha funny) was that broth was the only human food that I gave this cat or that she liked.  So please carefully check labels or make your own if you use broth to increase water intake.


----------



## dixiedragon (Feb 24, 2016)

My vet prefers dry food b/c it's better for their teeth.


----------



## Arimara (Feb 24, 2016)

dixiedragon said:


> My vet prefers dry food b/c it's better for their teeth.



Give the cat a piece of raw meat or even a raw wing tip and the kitty could reap the same benefits or so I've read.


----------



## dixiedragon (Feb 24, 2016)

We've had a lot cats over the years, and they've all lived on high-quality dry kibble. While we had a few vanish (we tried to make them be 100% indoor cats, they refused), all of our cats that did not vanish lived to be 15+ years old, with one exception - a 2 year old cat that threw a blood clot.


----------



## lenarenee (Feb 24, 2016)

dixiedragon said:


> We've had a lot cats over the years, and they've all lived on high-quality dry kibble. While we had a few vanish (we tried to make them be 100% indoor cats, they refused), all of our cats that did not vanish lived to be 15+ years old, with one exception - a 2 year old cat that threw a blood clot.


 

What is a "high quality dry kibble" - and who makes it?

My cat was adopted about the age of 1, and despite her habit of sleeping in the center of the road, (luckily it was a very quiet and tolerant neighborhood) being shot in the head, and detaching her ACL, could never be made into an indoor cat.  She would jump out 2nd story windows, and literally climb up walls to get outside.

She was old when we moved to CA, and had a little coyote proof kennel build for her. Just enough room to plant a couple bushes for her to sleep under and that satisfied her "outdoor" instinct.


----------



## dixiedragon (Feb 24, 2016)

Lenaree, I love your idea of an outdoor kitty kennel!

Re: high quality dry kibble. For a long time it was Science Diet (I know, I know, but better than Meow Mix and those were our only options.) Eukanuba for a long time, then Blue Buffalo (I think), now it's Orijen. We stopped the BB because it has "life source bits". The bulk of the food is cooked at a higher them that destroys vitamins, so they include the vitamins in the "life source bits" - which the cats came to dislike and simply picked out of their food bowls. Like a kid with a bowl of Lucky Charms. Cats are such brats, I swear. It's a good thing they're cute! Now it's Orijen, which has the highest fat content of any dry kibble I've found. And it's also the most expensive dry kibble. (Don't buy the 6 Fishes variety - it is RANK.)


----------



## lenarenee (Feb 24, 2016)

dixiedragon said:


> Lenaree, I love your idea of an outdoor kitty kennel!
> 
> Re: high quality dry kibble. For a long time it was Science Diet (I know, I know, but better than Meow Mix and those were our only options.) Eukanuba for a long time, then Blue Buffalo (I think), now it's Orijen. We stopped the BB because it has "life source bits". The bulk of the food is cooked at a higher them that destroys vitamins, so they include the vitamins in the "life source bits" - which the cats came to dislike and simply picked out of their food bowls. Like a kid with a bowl of Lucky Charms. Cats are such brats, I swear. It's a good thing they're cute! Now it's Orijen, which has the highest fat content of any dry kibble I've found. And it's also the most expensive dry kibble. (Don't buy the 6 Fishes variety - it is RANK.)


 

Thank you; it was just a 10x8 structure built by a handyman who built coyote proof structures for his own dogs and chickens. Then secured it into the ground. I work from home, but even with a 6 foot fence around the yard, the coyotes can get in and have a handy snack in under 60 seconds. I just couldn't take that chance.

When it was chilly, we used a huge sterilite storage container , cut a cat sized hole in the side, lined with fuzzy fleece and a heated cat bed to make sure she was warm enough. She was such an outdoor animal that the darn cat would sit outside in the snow and rain in Maryland!!!

And yes, cats can pick out any infinitesimal speck of unwanted food and they'll starve themselves before they'll eat it!!


----------



## lenarenee (Feb 24, 2016)

Just looked up Orijen - looks very promising!  The research I'd done years ago (we don't currently have a cat) said that the big increase in kidney disease in cats was possibly due to poor quality protein which was hard on kidneys, and high minerals content (phosphorous for example) due to natural content and I think it was a by product of digestive process.  

So many cat foods contain corn, wheat, and other grains - which are not appropriate for cats bodies.

It's like mass produced cattle; they're raised on corn/grains because they grow quicker/fatter and can be processed for food months earlier than grass fed cattle. However, if they aren't slaughtered at about 9 months of age - their corn/grain diet poisons them!!

Nature met for cows to eat grasses - and grass fed beef provides a lot more nutrition (vitamins A, E, omega 3s and other stuff) for us humans.


----------



## Arimara (Feb 24, 2016)

dixiedragon said:


> Lenaree, I love your idea of an outdoor kitty kennel!
> 
> Re: high quality dry kibble. For a long time it was Science Diet (I know, I know, but better than Meow Mix and those were our only options.) Eukanuba for a long time, then Blue Buffalo (I think), now it's Orijen. We stopped the BB because it has "life source bits". The bulk of the food is cooked at a higher them that destroys vitamins, so they include the vitamins in the "life source bits" - which the cats came to dislike and simply picked out of their food bowls. Like a kid with a bowl of Lucky Charms. Cats are such brats, I swear. It's a good thing they're cute! Now it's Orijen, which has the highest fat content of any dry kibble I've found. And it's also the most expensive dry kibble. (Don't buy the 6 Fishes variety - it is RANK.)



Orijen? You really love your kitties. I couldn't afford that and settled on Earthborn Holistics. It was the only food my former can did not throw up, besides the Orijen. Actually, she ate the Earthborn better.



lenarenee said:


> Just looked up Orijen - looks very promising!  The research I'd done years ago (we don't currently have a cat) said that the big increase in kidney disease in cats was possibly due to poor quality protein which was hard on kidneys, and high minerals content (phosphorous for example) due to natural content and I think it was a by product of digestive process.
> 
> So many cat foods contain corn, wheat, and other grains - which are not appropriate for cats bodies.
> 
> ...



That's why I don't trust most of the grocery store foods.


----------



## fuzz-juzz (Feb 24, 2016)

Chicken necks and wings, and generally chewy bits of meat are also good for dental health.
My kittens are 5 months old, still young for bones. But I cut up meat in chunky bits and they need to put quite a bit if work into their dinner sometimes. 

Supermarket kibble is awful. We fed it to our previous cat many years ago. When we knew close to nothing aboutbcat nutrition. He developed bloody diarrhea and vomiting.  We switched to one from pet store and he was fine after that.


----------

