# Your First Thought on My Logo



## tbeck3579 (Aug 4, 2015)

What do you think?  Don't hold back :thumbdown:  I won't be offended, well I don't think so??? Hahaha.  





http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## biarine (Aug 4, 2015)

I like it simple but looks clean


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## commoncenz (Aug 4, 2015)

Same. Although you might want to get rid of the "Name/Descriptor" part and leave the "Soap" part by itself.


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## Dorymae (Aug 4, 2015)

First impression was baby products. It is very cute, but if you are going for goats milk soap geared to adults the logo didn't hit me that way. It is a picture I would expect on baby products.


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## not_ally (Aug 4, 2015)

Patrick, I assume the "Name/Descriptor" part will be filled in by the frangrance/type, eg "Lavendar Buttermilk" or whatever, so the label needs it.  Could be wrong, though.

Teresa, I'm afraid that I agree with Dory, it does suggest a baby/children's soap, maybe because of the lamb pic.  It also suggests mildness/naturalness/simplicity generally - and maybe people will take it that way - but it might be interesting to try some changes now and see how they are received (heck, get some opinions from those donees you are giving soap to at the food pantry/church, get them to work!)


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## Susie (Aug 4, 2015)

I am going to third the baby soap impression.  I also don't get the tie between "Lamb" and soap unless you are milking sheep.  If Lamb is your last name, I would go with something like, "Lamb's Luxurious Soaps" or "Lamb's Sustainable Suds", then perhaps just the face of a lamb in the top left corner next to the word 'Lamb's'.


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## spenny92 (Aug 4, 2015)

In all honesty, I dislike it. I wouldn't buy a product with that logo. To me, it looks dated and, as above posters have mentioned, child-like. It may be a personal thing, but I really dislike the fonts used and the picture of the lamb.

I had my logo designed by someone else, as I'm hopeless at interpreting the ideas in my head onto paper (well, screen). It was very cheap and better than anything I could have done myself. Are there any logos out there that you like the look of? It might be nice to see your inspiration, or a description of what you want your logo to say/mean.


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## Dahila (Aug 4, 2015)

Yes I agree with above, is better to have done by professional, if the money is an issue ask a student of fine art to make one for you.  This does not look like logo.  I had seen it and did not want to hurt your feelings so kept quiet.  Logo is something that everyone will remember ,  look apple , everyone knows what it is,  the bitten off apple........Your logo must be clean, neat and not clattered and easy to remember.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Aug 5, 2015)

If you use goat milk, then 'kid' soap is what should be on there. 

As for the label, you need to work out what is important - is the company name 'lamb' or 'sustainable suds' or a mix of the two? 

For logos, labels and marketing in general, think about why people will buy your soap. What is it about your soap that makes it worth them buying? Who are your target customers and why? Hippy people looking for 'all natural'? Bubbly teens looking for bold FOs and bright colours? Then think of things that will appeal to them


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## not_ally (Aug 5, 2015)

Actually, Teresa, I love the name "Sustainable Suds", I like the dual meaning (ie; environmental message and the notion that the bubbles hang in there!) 

It must be hard to balance packaging which represents who you are w/whom your market is.  So I guess if it were my logo I would try to figure out that balance, ie; mostly for you/donations (that would be the case for me, so I probably wouldn't care that much about what other people thought) or mostly/exclusively for sale, in which case some of the answers might take time to figure out.  

Eg, is/will your market be mostly local - in which case I'd want the label to appeal to the types that are the most frequent buyers in your particular areas/outlets - or on-line, in which I'd try to make it as wide-reaching/sort of attractively and eye-catchingly generic as possible within limits.  Ugh, I can see it is not fun to design a label, unless you are crazy like cenz and IL 

I don't like Lush, but they certainly can sell the crap out of soap ....


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 5, 2015)

I want to give a like to each person that posted, but if I remember correctly I only have a certain number of "likes" I can use each day and I'm afraid if I run out I'll offend someone.  I appreciate the candid response from everyone.  I also recognize that if I wanted a consumers opinion of soap the group here would be very biased -- we can't help it, we know too much about soap.

First, please fill in the blank:  Dove _______________.  9 out of 10 of you probably said soap.  When I see a Dove I personally think of bird crap because the dog gone Mourning Doves on the farm leave me big piles Everywhere they roost.

I'm sort of giggling to myself because...  

1.  I needed a logo only for the sale of soap at the church fall craft fair.
2.  All the "Christian" symbols I looked at really didn't convey what I wanted: this is soap for people who want "pure" ingredients and it IS "gentle" to the skin.  Remember, I live in a rural area and "lye" soap is sometimes conceived as harsh, very bad for the skin, and not very gentle.  Most people do not make soap and most people are marketed "Beauty Bars" by the mass media, so most people are biased.
3.  The lamb with the cross on it seemed a little too, well, specific to the Church.
4.  I took my own advice and looked at "big business"; the multi-billion dollar corporate logos.  I looked at the top 10 richest companies logo's.  Think "Apple" and you don't think of computers; Steve would disagree with you.  Think "Windows" and you don't think of software; Bill would disagree with you.  Very simple pictures that have nothing to do with technology.
5.  Now think about the best selling soap ever:  DOVE.    

Now, the giggling part -- remember Dove is the best selling soap ever marketed to the American public and they have made more money than any other soap company.  Compare the photo below to mine (same type of font, color and arrangement) and keep in mind multi-billion corporations appeal to your micro-second decision making process (knee jerk reactions of the human mind).  A consumer will either look at a product or not, and if they don't look your product you don't get a sale.  Industrial Psychology is a science and they are PAID big money to influence your buying decisions.  You may not think your decisions are influenced, but I guarantee mass media has told you what to think, when to think it, and you think it hundreds of times a day.  Okay, the pics:




http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## Obsidian (Aug 5, 2015)

I don't care much for it either, sheep doesn't make me think of soap, purity or children. It makes me think of smelly animals, I grew up with sheep and there is nothing pure about them. I do quite like the name and think a pile of suds with or without a bar of soap would convey a better message.

If you had millions of dollars to advertise your product then you could make anything work, as you pointed out with dove and apple. We know what they are because both are advertised non stop, literally shoved in our faces daily.


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## galaxyMLP (Aug 5, 2015)

tbeck3579 said:


> 5.  Now think about the best selling soap ever:  DOVE.
> 
> Now, the giggling part -- remember Dove is the best selling soap ever marketed to the American public and they have made more money than any other soap company.  Compare the photo below to mine (same type of font, color and arrangement) and keep in mind multi-billion corporations appeal to your micro-second decision making process (knee jerk reactions of the human mind).  A consumer will either look at a product or not, and if they don't look your product you don't get a sale.  Industrial Psychology is a science and they are PAID big money to influence your buying decisions.  You may not think your decisions are influenced, but I guarantee mass media has told you what to think, when to think it, and you think it hundreds of times a day.  Okay, the pics:



I think the issue with trying to "match" an already existing brand is that they dont need an eye catching logo anymore. They are already established in the market and at the time of their initial logo design descisions, that may have been a good name. If "Dove" was just getting started as a company now, I can pretty much guarentee that they would not choose a logo like that. 

I agree that I think the lamb is a bit odd for a soap label. Maybe something like "Lamb Lather Soaps" would be a better name? 

I also think a different logo may look better. Maybe something more like this:


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## shunt2011 (Aug 5, 2015)

I don't care for it much either.  Too simple/childish looking  and doesn't come across as or  scream soap or B&B etc.  Regardless as to what/how Dove is you want something that makes you stand out and grab peoples attention.


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## TVivian (Aug 5, 2015)

tbeck3579 said:


> I want to give a like to each person that posted, but if I remember correctly I only have a certain number of "likes" I can use each day and I'm afraid if I run out I'll offend someone.  I appreciate the candid response from everyone.  I also recognize that if I wanted a consumers opinion of soap the group here would be very biased -- we can't help it, we know too much about soap.
> 
> First, please fill in the blank:  Dove _______________.  9 out of 10 of you probably said soap.  When I see a Dove I personally think of bird crap because the dog gone Mourning Doves on the farm leave me big piles Everywhere they roost.
> 
> ...




So.... Was this whole thing a test? Hahaha... Cause I'm certainly amused haha .. Very interesting.


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## Trix (Aug 5, 2015)

Lol I love the name, but I to thought baby products. It used the same colour and font as some very famous baby product producers and you have a baby sheep...a lamb.

It's a good first effort though, so now time to perfect it. some suds somewhere in the logo would be nice, and if you tell us why you used a lamb, or why you chose this, maybe we can help you get your more desired logo faster,


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## Trix (Aug 5, 2015)

Ah ok just noticed there is a second page now...never mind some of my questions were answered,can you got some really good advice


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## kchaystack (Aug 5, 2015)

I can see what you are trying to do, and I think it might work for the target audience at a church function.  I would float it by some friend in your church, and maybe the pastor/minister/priest (depending on what kind of church) and see if they 'get' the reference.


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 5, 2015)

Many people are feeling "duped" by my logo, and that wasn't my intent.  My intent was to see if anyone saw Dove Soap (it's actually a beauty bar) and they didn't (an I didn't want you to), and to see if they saw pure and gentle, which they did.  Once people look at my product I can "sell" them on the differences between a "beauty bar" and lye soap that contains sustainable and simple botanical additives.


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## Obsidian (Aug 5, 2015)

I'm confused, why would you think people would see dove when they look at your logo and why are you comparing the two so much? You are better off selling your soap on its own merits then saying its better then dove, even if it is. I'd only compare handmade soap to commercial bars if someone asks about the difference.


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## Dorymae (Aug 5, 2015)

I'm sorry, I saw baby product - like a logo for onesies, not pure and gentle soap. I don't see the correlation you are trying to make to Dove soap. 

But hey, if it works for you go for it.


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 5, 2015)

This is getting a little in-depth and really all I want to do is sell a nice, healthy product so the church can make a little money to help others, but here goes.

You can agree or disagree, but billions are spent to get you to do  something, motivate you into thinking something, or believe something;  even if you really don't want to believe it, buy it, can't afford it, or  it supersedes logical thought processes.  It works and believe me, you  are manipulated all day, everyday by people who know how to skillfully  and methodically do it.  It's a science.

I often forget that people don't understand the science of psychology.  My undergrad degree is psychology; summa cum laude U of I.  Getting someone to buy your products is an emotional experience -- there are hundreds of products to choose from (many could be cheaper and better than mine) so why is someone going to choose my product? For example, they have a choice between a picture of a lamb in an old scrub pan over a product picturing a simple lamb with a name like lamb?  Well, if you've got hundred thousand dollars and 4 years to get a psychology degree I can give you all the ins and outs of our brains complex thought processes, but since that isn't going to happen -- hahaha. Most of you would hate psychology but it is my passion -- why do people do what they do?  

I just did a quick internet search on "psychometrics"  and marketing.  Here is a web site that has a free download on "motivemetrics" (how to motivate someone to buy your product). Human beings are very complex and we form "schemas" without conscious thought  -- it's how we learn and we begin forming schemas (pictures if you will) very early in our childhood.  Our brain creates and files the information, then cross-references.  That's why when you see a lamb you think of baby's.  Baby's, along with animals create emotions (one of the most powerful psychological marketing ploys), and those emotions are a part of the reason consumers buy a product.  So, a baby and an animal, is double wammy on our brain and emotions.  We categorize everything we see, touch, feel, smell, and experience emotionally.  We do it and we don't even know why, and it creates emotion (unless you are a psychopath, then no emotion is created).  So, if we have seen a logo numerous times, everything about the logo (color, font, picture, etc.) is categorized in our brain and it creates an emotion -- we don't know why blue is soothing when we see it, but it is.  It's very complex and the human brain is very well researched in terms of getting people motivated to do something, especially to spend money.  I'll stop here.  Anyway, marketing isn't "I like the lamb in the tub", marketing is "what does a lamb convey to most people".  It's an emotion.


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## shunt2011 (Aug 5, 2015)

If you don't like the opinions and input you received then you probably shouldn't have asked. You are free to do whatever you want to do. However, you don't need to tell us what psychology does. There are many many well educated people and many have successful businesses here. They gave you their time and experience.  You can take it or leave it. It's just advice that others are freely sharing. Good luck to you


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## galaxyMLP (Aug 5, 2015)

tbeck3579 said:


> Most of you would hate psychology



I feel this is a jab at many of us for no reason.

 I did not mean to insult you by the "lamb in the tub" picture. I was genuinely trying to help.

There is a psychology associated with that as well. As people, we associate bar soaps and suds with cleanliness and often with simplicity or a simplistic lifestyle. It is reminiscent of pioneering days thus, placed in conjunction with "pure and simple". 

A baby lamb on the other hand, while cute and evokes emotion it makes you think of a baby or children. That is not the right kind of emotion that I want to think of when looking at a bath and body product. I want to feel a soothing emotion. Like I do when I take a bath or shower. I think that is why you have received the responses that you did.

I think if the logo will work for you, by all means use it. However, please don't discount the advice we gave here because we don't have a degree in human psychology. For all you know, some of us might.


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## Dorymae (Aug 5, 2015)

tbeck3579 said:


> This is getting a little in-depth and really all I want to do is sell a nice, healthy product so the church can make a little money to help others, but here goes.
> 
> You can agree or disagree, but billions are spent to get you to do  something, motivate you into thinking something, or believe something;  even if you really don't want to believe it, buy it, can't afford it, or  it supersedes logical thought processes.  It works and believe me, you  are manipulated all day, everyday by people who know how to skillfully  and methodically do it.  It's a science.
> 
> ...



I agree with you, however please realize that slapping a lamb on a product doesn't mean it will sell or everyone would do it. You see besides the psychological there is also an intelligence you are dealing with. We don't run on instinct alone. Blue might be soothing, but paint a doctors office blue and I'll guarentee my blood pressure goes up just as much as if it were red. Why? Because my dislike for being sick and depending upon the medical professions (no disrespect meant to all the nurses out there) supersedes any psychological effect of color. 
I would agree that marketing is emotion, however I still think you are on the wrong track with a lamb. Maybe it does provoke the right emotion in you, and maybe it will for your group but for me seeing a lamb on soap conveys a product meant for kids and babies therefore I would pass it by.


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## zolveria (Aug 5, 2015)

THE THE LAMB BEFITS THE PURPOSE.
Do not let our POV side track you. 
The lamb fits the purpose now that I hear it for Church People.
GO WITH WHAT IN YOUR HEART.  



tbeck3579 said:


> This is getting a little in-depth and really all I want to do is sell a nice, healthy product so the church can make a little money to help others, but here goes.
> 
> You can agree or disagree, but billions are spent to get you to do  something, motivate you into thinking something, or believe something;  even if you really don't want to believe it, buy it, can't afford it, or  it supersedes logical thought processes.  It works and believe me, you  are manipulated all day, everyday by people who know how to skillfully  and methodically do it.  It's a science.
> 
> ...


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 5, 2015)

Dorymae said:


> I agree with you, however please realize that slapping a lamb on a product doesn't mean it will sell or everyone would do it. You see besides the psychological there is also an intelligence you are dealing with. We don't run on instinct alone. Blue might be soothing, but paint a doctors office blue and I'll guarantee my blood pressure goes up just as much as if it were red. Why? Because my dislike for being sick and depending upon the medical professions (no disrespect meant to all the nurses out there) supersedes any psychological effect of color.
> I would agree that marketing is emotion, however I still think you are on the wrong track with a lamb. Maybe it does provoke the right emotion in you, and maybe it will for your group but for me seeing a lamb on soap conveys a product meant for kids and babies therefore I would pass it by.



I get a micro-second to induce people's brains to want to look at what I'm selling.  There are literally thousands of people marketing bath&body and as a society we  are inundated, over stimulated by all the b&b products on the market.  I hear people saying you want people to be interested, you want to stand out.  Please, I sincerely want to know:  1)How are you standing out?  2)What pic do you have that makes you stand out from a thousand others?  3)What brings people to your booth?  4)What emotion are you provoking? 5)Why do people want to visit ANOTHER b&b booth? 6)What research did you do to support your marketing approach?  Anyway, it is food for thought.  I want consumers to look so I have an opportunity to "sell" it.   Once I pass that hurdle I can spend time selling/explaining why homemade lye soap is pure and natural, why I use honey, oats, olive oil, why it feels better, etc. etc. etc.  And, a big one, I want people to REMEMBER my brand.


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 5, 2015)

galaxyMLP said:


> I feel this is a jab at many of us for no reason.


  I'm sorry you took it that way.  I only meant that most people find it boring, unexciting, like watching paint dry.  Please don't read more into it because it isn't a jab.


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## not_ally (Aug 5, 2015)

Teresa, I think there is a fundamental disconnect here.  Ie; I think everyone is on board w/the notion that advertising in general is driven by the desire to tap into fundamental, often subliminal, emotions/feelings.  However, based on the responses, I'm afraid that your label is not accomplishing that, at least here, and in the way that you want.  

If you just want to sell to the church market, it might even be better to incorporate your original idea somehow, ie; the lamb w/the cross.  I don't think it will hurt you there, and it could help.  If you do want to reach a wider market I would think about what has been said here, though.


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 5, 2015)

shunt2011 said:


> If you don't like the opinions and input you received then you probably shouldn't have asked. You are free to do whatever you want to do. However, you don't need to tell us what psychology does. There are many many well educated people and many have successful businesses here. They gave you their time and experience.  You can take it or leave it. It's just advice that others are freely sharing. Good luck to you



What gave you idea that I don't like your opinions?  I was supporting my ideas, like a thesis, and I welcome the feedback.  I'm afraid there is a lot of emotion here, and I don't deserve to be slammed, because I sure didn't slam any of you.


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 5, 2015)

zolveria said:


> THE THE LAMB BEFITS THE PURPOSE.
> Do not let our POV side track you.
> The lamb fits the purpose now that I hear it for Church People.
> GO WITH WHAT IN YOUR HEART.



Thank you!

http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## biarine (Aug 5, 2015)

I love Camay logo


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 5, 2015)

galaxyMLP said:


> I think the issue with trying to "match" an already existing brand is that they dont need an eye catching logo anymore. They are already established in the market and at the time of their initial logo design descisions, that may have been a good name. If "Dove" was just getting started as a company now, I can pretty much guarentee that they would not choose a logo like that.
> 
> I agree that I think the lamb is a bit odd for a soap label. Maybe something like "Lamb Lather Soaps" would be a better name?
> 
> I also think a different logo may look better. Maybe something more like this:



Just to be clear, I honestly like your picture better than mine, which is why I used that as an example.  I think it is far cuter.  My comments about the lamb pictures were coming from a cerebral "thinking" area of the brain, and nothing more.  It is a very cute pic and I didn't mean anything back handed at all.  Thanks for sharing it cuz it is much cuter than my simple drawing.

http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## spenny92 (Aug 5, 2015)

Well, this escalated quickly...

Personally, I feel like you are dismissing the opinions of some very talented and experience people here - opinions which you asked for, might I add. Instead, you've decided that we all need an in-depth lesson on psychology (I, too, have studied psychology at undergrad level) and want us to say that yes, your logo is just like Dove and that automatically means that everyone will buy it, la la la...

It doesn't appeal to me, but it might do to others. To me, it looks old-fashioned and dated, and I really think you ought to take a step back and re-read some of the great, constructive criticism that has been handed to you freely from the lovely people on this forum. 

If this was some sort of odd psychological test, then I'm just annoyed that so many of us have wasted our valuable time trying to help you with a logo, only for you to throw it back in our faces. Just my two cents.


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## galaxyMLP (Aug 5, 2015)

Theresa, thank you so much for explaining yourself. I greatly appreciate it. I voiced my opinions because I didn't want to be offended if in fact, no offense was meant by your comments. 

I think NA is right that the cross and lamb may actually work to your advantage in your instance.


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## shunt2011 (Aug 5, 2015)

tbeck3579 said:


> What gave you idea that I don't like your opinions? I was supporting my ideas, like a thesis, and I welcome the feedback. I'm afraid there is a lot of emotion here, and I don't deserve to be slammed, because I sure didn't slam any of you.


 
Nobody is slamming you.  They are giving you their opinions and telling you that the kind of thing you are trying to evoke with your label isn't doing what you would like it to do.  That is all.  It's your product and you need to do what you feel is best for you and your product. If the lamb is it then go with it.   To each their own that's why we do what we do. Opinions are just that, opinions and we all have one. This is a forum and you can read the responses how you like.  I meant nothing hurtful, just supporting many of those who responded like you did your thesis theory as you were trying to support your idea.

We are all here to bounce ideas off as long as we are able to take critical responses.  Usually people are just being honest and trying to make us think as it's always nice to see things from another perspective.


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## IrishLass (Aug 5, 2015)

Dorymae said:
			
		

> You see besides the psychological there is also an intelligence you are dealing with. We don't run on instinct alone


 
Quite true. 

Leave it to me to be one of the few that didn't think of babies or children. lol The moment I saw your logo, my pragmatic side kicked in and I immediately thought, 'Oh, I wonder if there's lanolin in the ingredients?'

My mind went that way because I myself use a lamb on one of my own labels- a lip balm label- not so much as a logo (because I actually don't have a logo), but because I have lanolin in the ingredients of that particular balm, and I thought it would be an easy (and cute) way of differentiating that balm from my others that don't have lanolin. I also label that particular lip balm as, "Lip Baahlm".  I don't sell or anything, by the way- this is for my own amusement and the amusement of those I gift my balm to. lol


IrishLass


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## Dahila (Aug 5, 2015)

Tbck as sharp as you are, it is pure Bs what you trying to push on us.  I do not want to say it, but I finished fine art school in Europe and worked as fabric desinger for years.
I would not expose anyone to label or Logo as you call it........You telling us about your psychology and how educated you are.........I am laughing out loud lady, I am ) truly


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## JayJay (Aug 5, 2015)

So much has been said, but let me also add that there is much more to graphic design than taking the color, picking a similar font and switching out animals (lamb for a dove) to create an equally well designed logo. A design can have those elements as the base of a concept but the designer would pull them together in a way that is esthetically pleasing. Spacing, proportions, contrast, thickness of the lines make a huge difference as well.  Maybe you should stay true to your concept but take some previous posters advice and get a design student to look at it.  

On the other hand, if you really don't want to go through the trouble, that's your choice as well. I love the name, and I think that the idea of the lamb is nice. You can always rework the look in the future if you decide to appeal to a broader audience.


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 5, 2015)

Dahila said:


> Tbck as sharp as you are, it is pure Bs what you trying to push on us.  I do not want to say it, but I finished fine art school in Europe and worked as fabric desinger for years.
> I would not expose anyone to label or Logo as you call it........You telling us about your psychology and how educated you are.........I am laughing out loud lady, I am ) truly



I'm not trying to push anything on you, and I posted in response to some of the comments.  It was to clarify my thinking when I created the logo and get feedback in the form of marketing and logos.  I'm not quite sure why you are going out of your way to be rude to me.  I'm glad you are so experienced in art.  It's a shame your comments were more to make me feel small than to share your education with me because your experience could have been helpful.  I guess I have a thick skin and can take it, but I am sensitive to the personal attacks.
http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 5, 2015)

I apologize if anyone felt I was attacking them.  I was brainstorming with everyone here and taking EVERY ONE's comments very seriously.  In fact, the posts about the lamb pic AND the very helpful CAMAY photo gave me an idea.


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 5, 2015)

JayJay said:


> So much has been said, but let me also add that there is much more to graphic design than taking the color, picking a similar font and switching out animals (lamb for a dove) to create an equally well designed logo. A design can have those elements as the base of a concept but the designer would pull them together in a way that is esthetically pleasing. Spacing, proportions, contrast, thickness of the lines make a huge difference as well.  Maybe you should stay true to your concept but take some previous posters advice and get a design student to look at it.
> 
> On the other hand, if you really don't want to go through the trouble, that's your choice as well. I love the name, and I think that the idea of the lamb is nice. You can always rework the look in the future if you decide to appeal to a broader audience.



Thank you for the feedback, it is much appreciated!  In fact, the lamb seemed to invoke so much emotion here that I was getting a little nervous and changed it.  The only people who knew I switched it out were the people here and when I told them... Oh well...  I guess they felt it was some sort of psychological experiment when in fact it was nothing more than trying to get a quality logo quickly.


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## zolveria (Aug 5, 2015)

Hey Tbeck3579 
Here is my prototype for my box. We are finalizing this and sending to my local print guy and old timer here in the valley been in business since 1930 .. he will score them and i will just have to bend them 

300 for 135.00  this box will be High Gloss black letters. I will foil them myself.


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 5, 2015)

spenny92 said:


> Well, this escalated quickly...
> 
> Personally, I feel like you are dismissing the opinions of some very talented and experience people here - opinions which you asked for, might I add. Instead, you've decided that we all need an in-depth lesson on psychology (I, too, have studied psychology at undergrad level) and want us to say that yes, your logo is just like Dove and that automatically means that everyone will buy it, la la la...
> 
> ...


''

I wasn't dismissing anyone or their opinions.  Yes, emotional here.  People felt duped and that wasn't the intention.


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## zolveria (Aug 5, 2015)

Ouch dahlia. let us be open minded here. Depending on the audience she is trying to reach . Her brand though may be simple can actually turn out well in her local community. 

Simple is always Best. that what hold true to this day. I have been in Pr for a while and now that Simple is best.  Also the right PR to push your product is another avenue. 
so taking your soap on the road and giving it away in other areas of your state etc. 
it really depend again on what she want and how far is she willing to go with this product.
I have never went to art school but I AM a  natural artist. not taught. I have designed all my logos. and have Artist give me nothing but hand downs. so ART SCHOOL MEANS NOTHING. IT YOUR CREATIVE EYE THAT COUNTS




Dahila said:


> Tbck as sharp as you are, it is pure Bs what you trying to push on us.  I do not want to say it, but I finished fine art school in Europe and worked as fabric desinger for years.
> I would not expose anyone to label or Logo as you call it........You telling us about your psychology and how educated you are.........I am laughing out loud lady, I am ) truly


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## Susie (Aug 5, 2015)

Hey Theresa, just in case you missed it, I am a Christian, and while I understand that you are selling to a church crowd, this use of a lamb just feels wrong to me.  I get the symbolism, but no, just no.

I would more likely hit the "pure and gentle" harder than the lamb.  I would also avoid using the "soothing" shades of blue.  You don't want to bore folks away from the table.  Hit their eyes with some bold, bright, and aggressive colors(red, bright blue, yellow).  Then suck them in with lovely scents.  If you don't get their attention fast and hard, you will have them walking away.


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 5, 2015)

zolveria said:


> Hey Tbeck3579
> Here is my prototype for my box. We are finalizing this and sending to my local print guy and old timer here in the valley been in business since 1930 .. he will score them and i will just have to bend them
> 
> 300 for 135.00  this box will be High Gloss black letters. I will foil them myself.



I love it!  The rose is simple and feminine.  My first thought was "I want to know what that pretty rose is representing."  I was immediately drawn to it.


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## zolveria (Aug 5, 2015)

exactly . i WAS RAISED christian beliefs. my grand parents. and I respect her logo. The Lamb is Innocent and Pure. just as God want our souls to be 

and her soap are Pure from the land that god has given to us .. so YEAH it  NICE.. i would circulate it in CHURCH stores that sell bibles etc



Susie said:


> Hey Theresa, just in case you missed it, I am a Christian, and while I understand that you are selling to a church crowd, this use of a lamb just feels wrong to me.  I get the symbolism, but no, just no.
> 
> I would more likely hit the "pure and gentle" harder than the lamb.  I would also avoid using the "soothing" shades of blue.  You don't want to bore folks away from the table.  Hit their eyes with some bold, bright, and aggressive colors(red, bright blue, yellow).  Then suck them in with lovely scents.  If you don't get their attention fast and hard, you will have them walking away.


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## Dahila (Aug 5, 2015)

zolveria said:


> Ouch dahlia. let us be open minded here. Depending on the audience she is trying to reach . Her brand though may be simple can actually turn out well in her local community.
> 
> Simple is always Best. that what hold true to this day. I have been in Pr for a while and now that Simple is best.  Also the right PR to push your product is another avenue.
> so taking your soap on the road and giving it away in other areas of your state etc.
> ...



I am not closed minded,  I have open mind to all possibilities,  The only thing I hate is when someone belittle others.  It will get to me every time.  You know that this forum is very kind to every one and helps and advice , spending a lot of time to help others to start the business or to achieve a good product....I love this place.  
Please do not criticize artists, they are hard working people.  I am very happy you have an artistic ability (many people do) and know how to utilize it. )
I had not intention of insulting anyone, if I had,  I say I am sorry!!!


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 5, 2015)

Susie said:


> Hey Theresa, just in case you missed it, I am a Christian, and while I understand that you are selling to a church crowd, this use of a lamb just feels wrong to me.  I get the symbolism, but no, just no.
> 
> I would more likely hit the "pure and gentle" harder than the lamb.  I would also avoid using the "soothing" shades of blue.  You don't want to bore folks away from the table.  Hit their eyes with some bold, bright, and aggressive colors(red, bright blue, yellow).  Then suck them in with lovely scents.  If you don't get their attention fast and hard, you will have them walking away.



If you want unbiased opinions you can't give background information, or that will bias the responses you get.  No one here got the "symbolism" or the relation to Dove until I told them.  It only got emotional when I explained it was based on the best selling soap logo, and what the lamb represents (and the DOVE was used in a similar manner).  I'm guessing you've seen the lamb and dove used in marketing and never made the connection until now.  Now, everyone is biased which is why I DID NOT explain where the inspiration came from.  I like the saying "lies, **** lies, and statistics" (Mark Twain).  I can bias any study I want by giving specific information, and most studies are biased.  I wanted HONEST opinions and I wasn't trying to dupe anyone.  The emotion is running so high on this thread now that any response I get is likely to be biased.


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 5, 2015)

Dahila said:


> You know that this forum is very kind to every one and helps and advice



:think: Okay, I'll let that one slide.

http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## snappyllama (Aug 5, 2015)

I really hope I'm not going to offend anyone with this... I'm not Christian so I didn't think "lamb of God". I thought "lamb skin"... Maybe it's the font or spacing. 

If I had thought of your original intent, it would have turned me off buying as I like to keep religion out of my products. 

But I'm probably not the target audience anywho.


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## Dorymae (Aug 5, 2015)

zolveria said:


> Hey Tbeck3579
> Here is my prototype for my box. We are finalizing this and sending to my local print guy and old timer here in the valley been in business since 1930 .. he will score them and i will just have to bend them
> 
> 300 for 135.00  this box will be High Gloss black letters. I will foil them myself.



I think your box and logo are gorgeous. To me they invoke luxury, high end product. I would want to know what the soap was like by looking at the box. Awesome job!


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## Susie (Aug 5, 2015)

Theresa, I actually got all the symbolism when I saw the label the first time.  However, that original logo still screams baby products or wool to me.  Sorry, but it really does.  However, when you started explaining what you were going for, and I understood the market you were appealing to, I then could actually give you what seemed to me more helpful feedback.   If it wasn't helpful, then take my apologies, instead.


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## JayJay (Aug 5, 2015)

zolveria said:


> Ouch dahlia. let us be open minded here. Depending on the audience she is trying to reach . Her brand though may be simple can actually turn out well in her local community.
> 
> I have never went to art school but I AM a  natural artist. not taught. I have designed all my logos. and have Artist give me nothing but hand downs. so *ART SCHOOL MEANS NOTHING*. IT YOUR CREATIVE EYE THAT COUNTS



Whoa. I hate to get too far off topic but I have to disagree. While yes it is possible for people to have natural ability, being educated in something does represent a mastery/level of knowledge that exceeds a previous natural ability. I know a highly educated artist and I respect all of the hard work that she put into studying her field. Yes she had an eye and a talent before she stepped foot in anyone's school but she also learned a lot during her studies. I would just like to ask that we respect people's areas of expertise.


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 5, 2015)

Susie said:


> However, that original logo still screams baby products or wool to me.



No reason to be sorry.  The reason it screams it is because corporate America's marketing gurus have made it so.  It didn't happen by accident, and the American people didn't realize that they were brainwashed.  We are all victims :cry:


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## zolveria (Aug 5, 2015)

Arts school teaches HISTORY of art and reinforce a natural talent.. Before there was history. we had natural artist LMAO.. the ones we go see in the Museums.. so yeah I kinda disagree and agree.. for someone who has no natarual ability.  Oh and all the  Rock carveer of rome and all the Ruins of Egypt I can go on. this is needed yes for Informative history. but we have a natural ability. that we re infornce with education. but I agree to disagree.. 



JayJay said:


> Whoa. I hate to get too far off topic but I have to disagree. While yes it is possible for people to have natural ability, being educated in something does represent a mastery/level of knowledge that exceeds a previous natural ability. I know a highly educated artist and I respect all of the hard work that she put into studying her field. Yes she had an eye and a talent before she stepped foot in anyone's school but she also learned a lot during her studies. I would just like to ask that we respect people's areas of expertise.


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## newbie (Aug 5, 2015)

Just jumping over all the prior explanations and all, your second label is more appealing but I would consider trying different fonts for the LSS part in the oval. It doesn't seem to fit with the rest, in particular, and it seems like there could be some other slight changes to make the label cleaner. 

You mentioned have just a split second to grab someone's attention then you could explain about your ingredients and what you are going for. I agree and disagree. You do have just a moment to make the impact and draw the eye. You first label did not have that draw for me and I would have passed it by. I don't necessarily think once you have caught the eye, you then have all the time to explain about your wholesome ingredients and how it's made etc... You will have a very short period of time in which to get someone interested enough to read your label and understand the nature of your products, unless you plan to talk extensively with each person who takes a second look at your soap. In a business/booth setting, that is not going to happen. Your label has to be able to convey some of that right away.


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## Dahila (Aug 5, 2015)

zolveria said:
			
		

> Arts school teaches HISTORY of art and reinforce a natural talent..  Before there was history. we had natural artist LMAO.. the ones we go  see in the Museums.. so yeah I kinda disagree and agree.. for someone  who has no natarual ability.  Oh and all the  Rock carveer of rome and  all the Ruins of Egypt I can go on. this is needed yes for Informative  history. but we have a natural ability. that we re infornce with  education. but I agree to disagree..


Have you any idea how many years Rembrand spend to achieve the mastery, painting for others?  Do you have any idea how many drawings Leonardo Da Vinci made before he got it right? 
Every artist and their masterpieces was a lot of work , tears, and sweat before it went to museum.  Actually only Pablo Piccaso could support himself with paintings.  Look at the Dutch artist.   Vincent Van Gogh, all life in poverty and then boom , after he died his paintings are good enough to go to museum.  Small paintings of his is selling for 30 millions US of course.  
Zolveria of course the talent must be there, but to create masterpiece it is only 10% of talent and 80% of work.  
Anything good needs a lot of work, as soapmaker you should know that)


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 5, 2015)

newbie said:


> Just jumping over all the prior explanations and all, your second label is more appealing but I would consider trying different fonts for the LSS part in the oval. It doesn't seem to fit with the rest, in particular, and it seems like there could be some other slight changes to make the label cleaner.
> 
> You mentioned have just a split second to grab someone's attention then you could explain about your ingredients and what you are going for. I agree and disagree. You do have just a moment to make the impact and draw the eye. You first label did not have that draw for me and I would have passed it by. I don't necessarily think once you have caught the eye, you then have all the time to explain about your wholesome ingredients and how it's made etc... You will have a very short period of time in which to get someone interested enough to read your label and understand the nature of your products, unless you plan to talk extensively with each person who takes a second look at your soap. In a business/booth setting, they is not going to happen. Your label has to be able to convey some of that right away.



Thank you for the feedback, it is VERY helpful.  It appears you may have some specific ideas on colors, fonts, etc. and I would greatly appreciate any feedback (maybe I'm reading too much into to your post?).  The logo/name will help draw people in.  Unfortunately the marketing and sales aspect has more to do with "a hook" then it does a good product (sigh).  The rest of the packaging and signage will focus on why it is pure/natural/sustainable and superior to the mass-market brand of chemical laden, skin drying "beauty bar" alternatives.  If all goes well I'll be appealing to their cerebral emotion of "I want a healthy, chemical free product for me and my family".   The scent is (do I dare say it) a HUGE psychological draw and it is very important.  If they get close enough to the booth I want the right scent wafting in the air -- not overpowering, just a response of "mmm, what is that?" emotion.  

The "I gotta have it" buying emotion is what I want now -- a lot of work to help charity -- I'm wishing I hadn't started this, but in for a penny in for a pound.  Hopefully they will respond unknowingly with "I will pay more because it is better".  If I can get them close enough to smell and do a quick read they can make up their own mind.  I'm still working on a "tag"; that first piece of "real" information.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Aug 6, 2015)

Let's also keep in mind that we aren't talking about a massive section of a supermarket isle full of the same product, each one trying to get noticed. That is not what most people here do and certainly not what you are trying to do - you're having a stand at a church fair, so I'm pretty certain that you have much more leeway than you think. 

I go back to my original point - use something that will appeal to the target market (which comes from my marketing background rather than your psychology one). If you want pure and natural and so on, a lamb is fine.......if most people who you are targeting associate a lamb with pure and natural. In particular, the image of a lamb that you choose (not all lamb pictures will mean the same). 

If they don't, then you need to look at something that does give the ideas over to your target market. 

Also, the LSS font has to change - and first I thought that it was dollar signs!


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 6, 2015)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Also, the LSS font has to change - and first I thought that it was dollar signs!



I'm giggling.  There is a message that people don't want -- spending money -- too funny.  I appreciate your input, it is very helpful and I'm still considering the Lamb.  It won't help if people don't come back for more, and they won't if they can't remember the name.  Most of our church folks are old like me so the short term memory is shot.


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## lenarenee (Aug 6, 2015)

You wanted our first thought on the logo, mine went something  like this: "Huh? What's that got to do with soap? This must be a mistake. That's a bad picture of a lamb anyway."

Sorry, but those were my thoughts. I felt no connection with God, gentleness, purity, babies or lanolin with that logo. What I did experience was disconnect and confusion....and that is all. Sorry I don't have anything positive to say.


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## gigisiguenza (Aug 6, 2015)

Tossing my two cents in if it helps.

My first impressions of the original logo you posted wee not of soap, God, purity, or gentleness. They were, babies, softness, wool, and childlike.

The second logo drew my attention immediately to the brand name and sustainability, thanks to the very direct naming, but the lettering in the center felt disconnected, it didn't fit.

The color scheme in neither logo drew my eye, but I did like the simplicity, the lack of excessive frufru details, and the clean lines in both.

I agree with others who have said that considering your specific marketing venue for this particular event, the subliminal ties to religious iconography will likely prove to be a plus, but I think they could be used more effectively.

If I were to suggest anything it would be to use a soft, medium hue blue background in the center of the second logo, with the original lamb image in white, centered in the oval. The brand name across the top with sustainable suds below in the same blue, would create a nice visual that clearly states the maker and the product intention (Lamb's Sustainable Suds) while implying softer, gentleness, and a familiar religious symbol (lamb) that people in your intended market pool at this event will feel comfortable with and attracted to.

I would also suggest the subtle use a a darker, third color in a contrasting hue (perhaps a medium to dark orangey red color, or even a nice deep golden color) to balance the visual softness of the blue and white combination, so it doesn't come across as too "bland" or lacking any impact.

Just my suggestions, hope they help.


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## TheDragonGirl (Aug 6, 2015)

My first impression of the original logo you posted was that it reminded me of sunday school when I was younger  

I do find the font used in the middle of the second logo to be discontinuous, though it invokes less of that sunday school feel


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## JayJay (Aug 6, 2015)

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of the lamb. I would probably search for other versions of a lamb image and then reduce of some of the space between the lamb and the lettering. Maybe make the letters bigger. I also like the idea that the previous poster raised of playing with a third color. You could make several versions and test them among members of your target audience. You know, get a focus group of friends from your church and have them pick the one they like.


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 7, 2015)

Thanks everyone for your help.  It is very much appreciated!


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## dixiedragon (Aug 7, 2015)

I immediately thought fabric softener or Woolite. It's also a bit generic looking to me - like a high school student was assigned to come up with logo for an imaginary company for a school project.

Another issue is the name - if you google Lamb Soap, you get tons of hits.


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 8, 2015)

"Another issue is the name - if you google Lamb Soap, you get tons of hits."

I consider this to be a positive -- my selling schema has been bought and paid for by Corporate America.  IMO, there is nothing new or imaginary about soap. There is something new and imaginary about using a sustainable, clean smelling, natural soap that is gentle enough for children. A lamb will summon a lot of emotions from days gone by - nostalgic.   

I  will use a more sophisticated paper and other things that will make it  feel a little more like a soap for everyone in the family.  BUT... IMHO  the first reactions, before things got emotional, were what I has hoping  for. 

I will stick to my original logo with a few minor changes on size, position, color of paper.  I honestly liked it when people made connections like:  "I like it simple but looks clean; baby products; goats milk soap; it does suggest a baby/children's soap; it looks dated; I love the name "Sustainable Suds".  Those were the first knee jerk opinions.

After I explained my inspiration: "sheep doesn't make me think of soap, purity or children;  issue with trying to "match" an already existing brand; Regardless as to what/how Dove; but I to thought baby products; your logo and why are you comparing the two so much?; However, you don't need to tell us what psychology does." BTW, I apologize for sharing the psychology of marketing, it is my passion and interesting to me.  Why do we think or do the things we do?  It makes many people uncomfortable, like they have shared their soul without realizing it.

I want clean and simple, I want pure and gentle enough for a baby and I think the soap buyers, my target audience, will get that impression before any other knowledge is gained.  Additionally, I'm in ag country (my target audience) and most people around here have pet sheep at some point in their life.  When you pet sheep you get lanolin all over your hands and they feel very soft -- it's an "aha" moment you don't forget -- a moment that says "my skin feels awesome".  

I really do appreciate all the help and information.  Everyone has been very kind and thoughtful!  I genuinely appreciate that.


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 8, 2015)

*12 Rules of Logo Design*

I did want to share this link and forgot.  It encompasses most of the research on logo design; quick crash course research.  I hope it helps when others begin design on their logos.

12 Rules of Logo Design


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