# Feeling Discouraged



## Confused_Penguin (Jan 10, 2015)

I have made 3 successful batches of soap. I usually do one batch a day but since I'm pressed for time and I wanted to try to sell them around Valentines Day I decided to do two batches in one day. And that's when hell happened. 

All I did was double my batch size, mixed more than usual since it was a large amount of soap. I wanted to make a pumpkin soap and a guava scented soap. I usually let my soap be around the same temperature, which is 120-125 degrees. I separated the batter and then started adding color to one of the soap. It mixed well, but when I walked 2 feet to get another color and came back and tried to grab my blender out of the pot, it was stuck in place like a rock. This was after I added my fragrance oil, which said it did NOT accelerate. I mixed the color in and tried to pour it but it came out like hot process soap. I banged it on the table to get the air pockets out and tried to work as fast as I could. 

When I did the other one it was still workable. I added the color and the fragrance and  mixed it a couple of times... and noticed it started to gel right in my container. It came out as horrible as the other one. 

Can someone tell me what I did wrong? Was my temperature too high? Did I mix too much? I have not had anything gel on me when I was working on one batch and I tripled check my calculator to make sure everything was okay. 

I guess big batches are not for me. This is the first time I messed up and I hate it because I feel like I wasted money on something that turned out horrible. I'm praying its a happy accident.... but I'm sure that won't happen. I will take imgs of it to tomorrow to share what it looks like..


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## Seawolfe (Jan 10, 2015)

My guess would be the FO, if it is one you haven't used before. Likely only you will be able to tell what went wrong, through trial and error, and a lot of experimentation. This is why I decided not to sell until I've had a full year of practice. I just had a batch that for no reason decided not to gel, and almost a week before it can be cut without crumbling. And it was a familiar recipe, colors and EO.

I sometimes think that soap is like dealing with horses, you can know all the theory you can, and one will still take the bit and bolt off in a random direction.


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## Cactuslily (Jan 10, 2015)

Hi confused! As a new soaper who is experiencing what you are, it's nice to know I'm not alone. I'm sorry it happened to you. I can so commiserate. My question is, I've been thinking my soap is accelerating too fast for some reason or another. Is this the same as early gel phase? How can you tell the differance?


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## Confused_Penguin (Jan 10, 2015)

Accelerating is when trace speeds up and your batch becomes extremely thick really really fast (like pudding). You need to put it in the mold fast before it hardens up. I heard adding a little bit of water helps but once it gets going you really need to move quick. Gel in the other hand is when the batch looks translucent and if you ever had gelling happen in your pitcher like I did you can tell right away. It turns a slightly darker color, and the container feels warm/hot around it. So warning sign- acceleration before gelling... i think?

Thank you for your support <3

I have done my research for the past 6 months and have experience with hot process soap making. Though I like the process since its fast, you can use it immediately, or sell it after 1-3 week cure, I rather enjoy he designs you get with cold process. I still feel bad though because I made 8 pounds of soap today... and I feel like I wasted it. Lesson learned... but I still think its hard to swallow this mistake T.T


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## janzo (Jan 10, 2015)

Confused Penguin don't get discouraged, believe me it happens to us all.  

I agree with Seawolfe it is prob your fragrance, is it from a reputable source?  I ask this because I changed supplier last month and the fragrances I got all seized, so if you are in The States (I am not)  please confer with people on here who live there that the supplier is good.  

I also think that you should try and soap a lot cooler, like below 100 degrees even 90, it really does make a difference for some fragrances etc.  

Are you able to post your recipe so we can take a look, make sure your water discounts etc are ok.  I have only been soaping a year so hopefully one of our long term pros will step in with some more advice.  

This is a great forum to be on, if they can't solve the problem here then there is a problem!!!

Don't let it discourage you, it's a wonderful addiction and the gremlins visit us all from time to time!!!


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## cmzaha (Jan 10, 2015)

Confused_Penguin said:


> Thank you for your support <3
> 
> I have done my research for the past 6 months and have experience with hot process soap making. Though I like the process since its fast, you can use it immediately, or sell it after 1-3 week cure, I rather enjoy he designs you get with cold process. I still feel bad though because I made 8 pounds of soap today... and I feel like I wasted it. Lesson learned... but I still think its hard to swallow this mistake T.T[/QUOTE
> 
> 1 week cure time is certainly not long enough for a hp soap to cure, actually I do not find 3 weeks long enough. Any hp soap I end up making I cure min of 8 weeks since it contains more liquid. You are not selling a quality bar of soap when you do not cure it long enough. Of course I love it when someone comments at my booth that their soap they purchased from me lasted so much longer than others they have purchased. You need to spend more time making soap before selling. When using a new fo it is best to test with a small batch to see how it will act. Your recipe can also play a big part in tracing. Many factors come into play when making soap.


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## cmzaha (Jan 10, 2015)

Confused_Penguin said:


> I have made 3 successful batches of soap. I usually do one batch a day but since I'm pressed for time and I wanted to try to sell them around Valentines Day I decided to do two batches in one day. And that's when hell happened.
> 
> All I did was double my batch size, mixed more than usual since it was a large amount of soap. I wanted to make a pumpkin soap and a guava scented soap. I usually let my soap be around the same temperature, which is 120-125 degrees. I separated the batter and then started adding color to one of the soap. It mixed well, but when I walked 2 feet to get another color and came back and tried to grab my blender out of the pot, it was stuck in place like a rock. This was after I added my fragrance oil, which said it did NOT accelerate. I mixed the color in and tried to pour it but it came out like hot process soap. I banged it on the table to get the air pockets out and tried to work as fast as I could.
> 
> ...


 
I am 99% sure your fo's were the culprits. The first was what we call soap on a stick. Severe acceleration. You could have covered the pot and let it go into gel then you could have quickly poured it in the mold. It will look more like a hp but at least it will not have the air pockets and voids you usually when trying to pack practically solid soap in a mold. The second batch apparently overheated and gelled in the pot. You will probably find that the quava cannot be cp'ed without severe overheating. Some fo's are so cranky they are better hp'ed and unfortunetly you seemed to have used 2 in a row. Bad gremlins...Believe me this will not be your first or last if you continue to make soap. I make a lot of soap and still have batches go south at times. With time you will figure out how to save even the worst of soaps.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jan 10, 2015)

I want to preface this by saying - don't get discouraged about making soap.  Issues come, especially early on and when trying new things.  It's a large part of how we learn.  To be honest, if the soap is actually usable then it is not all lost.  Just might not sell too well.  

Which brings me to the next point:



Confused_Penguin said:


> I have made 3 successful batches of soap....................I wanted to try to sell them around Valentines Day............And that's when hell happened.................Can someone tell me what I did wrong?....................



Firstly, if you are posting in the beginner section and have questions like this and thoughts about selling a 1 week cured bar, then you really should wait longer before selling.  For two reasons -

1) for your own experience.  What do I do when it hits the fan?  After time, you'll know.  You'll have a lot of the issues worked out from your process and it will be like a well oiled machine.  But more importantly, you'll know how to react to certain things quickly and with confidence.  When making soap as a hobby, it's not a major issue to have a fail.  When selling, it is rather major.

2) this is the more important point.  Until you know for certain how a soap will be in 6 months or even 12 months, can you sell that to people?  How would you feel if you sold all but one of a batch of new soaps and then 2 months later you saw that it had gone bad?  There is a good chance that people still have that soap unused and now unusable.  Personally, I don't want to sell a product to someone unless I know the quality from actual experience.  You only get that experience over time. 

As I said, selling shouldn't be a concern for now - get soaping, soap until your blood is 5% castor and you know more about oil properties than any normal person thinks is healthy.  Then look to sell a quality product that is worthy of being sold.


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## pamielynn (Jan 10, 2015)

Don't look at it as "waste". When learning to make soap you may encounter many issues and lose a batch. That's how you learn. I've been doing this for 10 years and still lose batches on occasion. You can't expect that every single batch ever will be perfect - especially at the beginning.

But to your question - I agree with everyone else - it's most likely your FO. When you have a tricky fragrance, adding more water to your recipe can help. But remember also, that when scaling a recipe, you should run it through a soap calculator before making it.


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## Neve (Jan 10, 2015)

I've been soaping 18 months and I screwed up my valentines day soap too... Batches only started going wrong when I started selling! Go figure.


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## IrishLass (Jan 10, 2015)

Although I understand your discouragement, Penguin, there's actually no need to be discouraged. Instead, you need to look at this as a learning experience. Get out that notebook and take notes and then go back to the drawing board!  See this as a mere bump in the road and take encouragement from knowing that great soap makers are not made overnight, but actually go through several such learning experiences before finding themselves on steady, (or at least steadier) ground.

Learning experiences such as the one you just went through are why so many of us with several years of soaping experience recommend to have about a year of consistent soaping experience and testing under your belt before considering to sell. 

I know that a year seems like such an awful long time, but the nature of lye-based soap is such that a year is actually the perfect amount of time to not only get to know the craft and be able too work out the kinks caused by unruly FOs and/or other additives, and/or problems with the base formulas, but more importantly, it also provides a goodly amount of time to observe whether or not problems such as DOS/rancidity, scent or color fading, and/or morphing will rear their ugly heads. Those kinds of things usually don't reveal themselves right away, but instead weeks or months later..... 

For example, you can have a soap that looks and smells absolutely lovely right out of the mold and even after a 4-week cure, but then 2 months further down the road it has developed ugly orange spots all over it (DOS), or the scent has totally faded and/or the color has morphed dark brown. Giving yourself a good cushion of a year for testing/quality control purposes is priceless and will save you from a lot of potential heartache down the road. 

I've been soaping for almost 10 years now and still run into persnickety problems from time to time, but I've learned to look at them as mere bumps in the road, or opportunities from which I can learn something new.


IrishLass


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## pamielynn (Jan 11, 2015)

IrishLass said it perfectly. You now know that FO moves fast. Make a note of it and do your process a little differently the next time you use it (more water, cooler temps, less swirling, etc)

When you move in to selling, those can go in your scratch 'n dent basket.


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## Relle (Feb 9, 2015)

pamielynn said:


> IrishLass said it perfectly. You now know that FO moves fast. Make a note of it and do your process a little differently the next time you use it (more water, cooler temps, less swirling, etc)
> 
> When you move in to selling, those can go in your scratch 'n dent basket.


 
Unfortunately for others pamielynn, this person is already selling after only 3 weeks of making their first batches of soap ( that's why all the beginners questions they are wanting answers to ). Heaven help the public.


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## ClaraSuds (Feb 9, 2015)

Confused_Penguin said:


> I guess big batches are not for me. This is the first time I messed up and I hate it because I feel like I wasted money on something that turned out horrible. I'm praying its a happy accident.... but I'm sure that won't happen. I will take imgs of it to tomorrow to share what it looks like..



Ah the soap Gods! They let you get just enough success to feel confident then like to mess with a batch or two for a while before returning you to your former self. It's all in a good cause though....we learn stuff from it. 

I found its easier to control a smaller batch, I had the unexpected happen a few times with big batches. Now I'm content to do multiple small batches instead, plus it gives me the opportunity to mix up scents or try out a new ingredient etc. 

Your soap will be usable anyway, and you never know it may throw up something you really like. My first hot process soap was the result of a mistake and then I discovered I really liked hot process and did that for a while. I just cut the rough tops off them and you can't tell they are HP soap.


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## pamielynn (Feb 10, 2015)

Relle said:


> Unfortunately for others pamielynn, this person is already selling after only 3 weeks of making their first batches of soap ( that's why all the beginners questions they are wanting answers to ). Heaven help the public.



Oh, whoops. Didn't catch that one.


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## Confused_Penguin (Feb 10, 2015)

Relle said:


> Unfortunately for others pamielynn, this person is already selling after only 3 weeks of making their first batches of soap ( that's why all the beginners questions they are wanting answers to ). Heaven help the public.



I've made a lot of hot process soaps in the past. Temperature and fragrance was never an issue to me in the past working in hp. When I wrote this message it was my 3rd batch of cold process soap-- a type of soaping I'm still getting the hang of, and researched 6 months prior before attempting to actually do it. And I'm allowing my CP soaps to cure 6 weeks + like recommended.  So please don't jump into conclusions. Thanks.

And also thank you everyone for the encouragement. I'm putting one foot over the other and learning from past mistakes.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 11, 2015)

Confused_Penguin said:


> ......... When I wrote this message it was my 3rd batch of cold process soap-- a type of soaping I'm still getting the hang of, and researched 6 months prior before attempting to actually do it..........I'm putting one foot over the other and learning from past mistakes.




I think that is the point - you're still learning how to make cold process soaps, still making mistakes, still getting the hang of it - and you're selling these cold process soaps on your store. 

This thread was started a little over one month ago, so any 6 week cured soaps that you're selling are from before the period that you wrote this


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## shunt2011 (Feb 11, 2015)

I'm with TEG on this one.  You don't even know how your soaps will be in 3 months or 6 months.  I guess that's why they say buyer beware.  

I highly recommend you at the very least give your soaps time to be tested.  If you choose to sell that's totally your choice.  I hope you have insurance.

Don't rush it.  You should want to sell the best product you can.  One that's time tested and approved by all your human guinea pigs.  I had about 20 of them. Besides, they loved all the free soap and I actually converted many over to the bright side of handmade soap from those store bought soaps.

Continue testing and making those soaps.  That's the true fun involved.


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## Relle (Feb 12, 2015)

Confused_Penguin said:


> I've made a lot of hot process soaps in the past. Temperature and fragrance was never an issue to me in the past working in hp. When I wrote this message it was my 3rd batch of cold process soap-- a type of soaping I'm still getting the hang of, and researched 6 months prior before attempting to actually do it. And I'm allowing my CP soaps to cure 6 weeks + like recommended. So please don't jump into conclusions. Thanks.
> 
> And also thank you everyone for the encouragement. I'm putting one foot over the other and learning from past mistakes.


 
I didn't come to any conclusions - your words, not mine - ' I'm still getting the hang of it '. Researching and actually making soap are two different things.


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## Confused_Penguin (Feb 12, 2015)

Relle said:


> I didn't come to any conclusions - your words, not mine - ' I'm still getting the hang of it '. Researching and actually making soap are two different things.



In soaping I don't think you ever stop learning. No matter how many times you've done something. No need for the "heaven help the public" part of your comment.  And as far as researching and actually making the soap, it's good to be prepared and you need both if you're trying something new.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 12, 2015)

While we do constantly learn, in all that we do, I think there is a curve in the learning - a beginner and an expert learn differing amounts from doing the same thing. There is also a point on the curve where selling is something that is fair to paying customers (the attitude of buyer beware in the USA aside) and I don't think that someone is at that point if they are still getting the hang of something. 

Would you want someone who is getting the hang of it working on your house or car with out support? Or a surgeon who is still getting the hang of it with no senior doctor there to help? Or something lighter, like someone who is still getting the hang of it doing your dry cleaning as their own business? Sure, you don't have to use them again if they do a bad job, but that doesn't mean you haven't wasted your time and money (and maybe ruined some clothes!) because they were running ahead of themselves.

ETA- you also need to check out your blurb, as I think you even go beyond cosmetic claims in to Drug claims :eh:


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## IrishLass (Feb 12, 2015)

shunt2011 said:


> You don't even know how your soaps will be in 3 months or 6 months.
> 
> I highly recommend you at the very least give your soaps time to be tested.


 
Herein lies the crux of the matter. Handmade soap is a curious thing in that problems don't always reveal themselves until weeks or months have gone by.....problems such as DOS, scent fading, scent morphing, color morphing, warping, etc..... And since customers don't always use the soap that they buy right away, it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility for the bar of soap to be icky by the time they finally get around to using it. 

I always advise waiting a year before selling in order to give oneself the time to get to know all the in's and out's of their formula and their scents and colors so that they don't short-change themselves or their customers.


IrishLass


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## Susie (Feb 12, 2015)

Before you start thinking that bad soap will only affect your business(and it will), it does also affect the rest of us.  I have family members that will not try my soap because they had a bad experience with someone else's hand made soap.  Selling soap before it is properly cured, high cleansing/low conditioning, DOS all affect your bottom line, and everyone else's reputation.  I don't even sell my soap, and it is affecting mine.


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## pamielynn (Feb 12, 2015)

***And since customers don't always use the soap that they buy right away, it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility for the bar of soap to be icky by the time they finally get around to using it.**

This is a straight-up fact. Just this past week, I made a home delivery to a customer, who dragged me inside to show me her "collection" of my soaps. She's got THREE containers of soap that she keeps for when people visit her so she can send them home with soap. Her personal soaps are in another closet. Thought it was a *little* strange, but she talks up my soap so much that I'm not making any judgments, ha ha. But, this is a perfect example of how you never know what a customer does with your product.


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