# Sugar to soap



## musmar.firas (Feb 21, 2021)

Hi
I heard that Sugar can help with bubbles in soap. how much sugar I should add to Oils ? when I should add it? does it work with hot process ?


----------



## Todd Ziegler (Feb 21, 2021)

I have never done HP soap but you can use in CP soap making.

You can use around 1 tsp of sugar per pound of oils.

You will dissolve it in the water that you are going to use for your lye. Once it is dissolved completely, then add it to your lye. 

Make sure that it is dissolved completely or it can carmalize. You also might want to put the lye/water/sugar mixture in the fridge to keep it from getting to hot. Then proceed as you normally would with the rest of your recipe.


----------



## GemstonePony (Feb 21, 2021)

I tend to do a bit more than 1tsp per pound of oils, but I do recommend dissolving it and then adding it to cool lye solution. If I add it to hot lye solution, it definitely turns darker and may cause the solution to boil.


----------



## dibbles (Feb 21, 2021)

I also use 1-2 tsp PPO. I use some of the batch water, warm it slightly, make sure the sugar is dissolved completely, then add it back into the batch water before adding the lye. I have never had the batch water get too hot, but I set my pitcher in a large stainless bowl just in case.

I don't usually masterbatch my lye solution, but did recently. When I tried adding sugar dissolved in the additional water to the cool MB lye solution, it turned into a gloppy blob that took forever to stir in - just like adding sugar to cooled lye solution, only not as bad as that. I won't do that again 

ETA: I make CP, not HP


----------



## AliOop (Feb 21, 2021)

Yes, you can use sugar for HP. If you want a more fluid batter, I recommend saving some water until the end of the cook. Heat the water, add the sugar and dissolve it, and then stir it well into your cooked batter. The batter will loosen up a lot and be more pourable or even swirlable.

You can also use this hot sugar water to disperse your colorants. Add the colored hot sugar water to the separate pouring containers after splitting your batter.

The key is to make sure the sugar water isn’t colder than your batter.  It needs to be hot, or your batter will thicken instead of loosen. You can also dissolve your citric acid or citrate in this water, as well.

ETA: these directions are HP-specific.  I don’t do this for CP.


----------



## The_Phoenix (Feb 21, 2021)

Just a note: sugar caramelizes at 320 degrees, so you will never get your soap that hot, not even during HP. Also, sugar will not caramelize until all water boils/evaporates off--caramelization does not happen if you have more liquid than sugar. Though your lye solution will increase in heat upon upon the addition of sugar, it will only get so hot before it begins to cool down.

A work-around to using sugar in its crystal structure is to make a simple syrup and keep it in the fridge. Basically, add sugar and water (a 1:1 ratio) to a pan and bring it to a boil. Simmer until you see the bubbles increase in size (literally, the bubbles that form on the surface will get bigger--this means that water is rapidly evaporating off). Cool and store in the fridge.


----------



## gloopygloop (Feb 21, 2021)

A go to amount in the UK for sugar is usually 5% of the oil weight in sugar mixed into the lye water prior to the lye, and as already said it must be completely dissolved first. I have not tried the trick of holding the sugar back until the soap is fully saponified, does this still give the same desired bubblyness?


----------



## senaraj (Feb 21, 2021)

Can we add both salt and sugar to the lye water in cold process soap making?


----------



## soapmaker (Feb 21, 2021)

senaraj said:


> Can we add both salt and sugar to the lye water in cold process soap making?


In a 5 lb. batch I add 4 T. sugar and 3 t. salt to my cold water and dissolve completely before adding lye. Never had a problem.



Todd Ziegler said:


> You will dissolve it in the water that you are going to use for your lye. Once it is dissolved completely, then add it to your lye.


I'm assuming everyone knows not to add the liquid to the lye. Add the lye to the liquid.


----------



## KimW (Feb 21, 2021)

The_Phoenix said:


> A work-around to using sugar in its crystal structure is to make a simple syrup and keep it in the fridge. Basically, add sugar and water (a 1:1 ratio) to a pan and bring it to a boil. Simmer until you see the bubbles increase in size (literally, the bubbles that form on the surface will get bigger--this means that water is rapidly evaporating off). Cool and store in the fridge.


GENIUS!


----------



## The_Phoenix (Feb 21, 2021)

KimW said:


> GENIUS!


I can’t take 100% credit for the idea. Someone else suggested using a simple syrup and my first thought was “Why didn’t I think of that!!” So I’m passing the genius on.


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 21, 2021)

Caramelization temperatures of sugar in water don't apply to sugars added to alkaline mixtures such as lye solution or soap batter. The caramelization of sugars in an alkaline solution occurs at lower temperatures.

"..._The rate of caramelization is generally lowest at near-neutral acidity (pH around 7), and accelerated under both acidic (especially pH below 3) and basic (especially pH above 9) conditions_. ..."

Source: Wikipedia, Caramelization - Wikipedia where Villamiel, M.; del Castillo, M. D.; Corzo, N. (2006). "4. Browning Reactions".  In Hui, Y. H.; Nip, W-.K.; Nollet. L. M. L.; Paliyath, G.; Simpson, B. K. (eds.). Food biochemistry and food processing. Wiley-Blackwell. pp. 83–85. ISBN 978-0-8138-0378-4​
"..._The degradation of sugars rapidly increased at a high alkaline pH (10.0-12.0)_ ..."

Source: Kim, J.-S & Lee, Y.-S. (2008). Effect of pH on the Enolization of Sugars and Antioxidant Activity of Caramelization Products Obtained by Caramelization Browning. Food Science and Biotechnology. 17. 931-939.​
"..._Strong alkalies, like strong acids, decompose the sugars. Weak alkalies or salts with alkaline reaction, like sodium bicarbonate, common baking soda, also act upon the sugars. Even alkaline salts found in hard water may produce considerable decomposition in some of the sugars. Of the disaccharids those most easily affected by acids are least readily decomposed by alkali, and vice versa. Sucrose is scarcely acted upon by a weak alkali, but maltose and lactose are affected more readily_. ..."

Source: Lowe, Belle. Effect of Alkalies upon Sugars. In chapter 2 of Experimental Cookery From The Chemical And Physical Standpoint. John Wiley & Sons. 1937. Text found here: Experimental Cookery From The Chemical And Physical Standpoint | by Belle Lowe​


----------



## The_Phoenix (Feb 21, 2021)

Well that is just fascinating. I had no idea. Thank you for that information, @DeeAnna.


----------



## KimW (Feb 21, 2021)




----------



## Spice (Feb 22, 2021)

what is the purpose of adding sugar?


----------



## AliOop (Feb 23, 2021)

Spice said:


> what is the purpose of adding sugar?


It boosts the lather of your soap - makes it more bubbly. This change doesn't show up in the soap calculator, so it takes some experimentation to figure out how much you like to add.  Other ingredients that include sugar or starch, such as aloe vera juice, honey, sorbitol, milks, rice flour, etc., will do the same thing.


----------



## Spice (Feb 23, 2021)

AliOop said:


> It boosts the lather of your soap - makes it more bubbly. This change doesn't show up in the soap calculator, so it takes some experimentation to figure out how much you like to add.  Other ingredients that include sugar or starch, such as aloe vera juice, honey, sorbitol, milks, rice flour, etc., will do the same thing.


ok, my soaps are really bubbly now but I will try a test batch and see the difference.  I will try honey.


----------



## AliOop (Feb 23, 2021)

Oooo honey is the most difficult one. It can really heat up your batter, which in turn can speed up trace. The only "sugar" that I've found to heat up a batter faster than honey is molasses. But both of them do give a nice, slightly sweet smell to the soap. The honey may make it turn a little bit tan, whereas molasses will turn it brown.

I'd recommend dissolving the honey in a little warm water, than blending that into your oils before adding your lye. Others add the dissolved honey water after adding the lye solution, but I find it too easy to forget other things once I've poured the lye solution. Anyway, if you don't get it mixed in very well, you will get brown honey spots in your soap. It doesn't hurt anything, but it can be sticky and attract gnats. Ask me how I know


----------



## GemstonePony (Feb 23, 2021)

^ I agree on everything @AliOop said. It's way easier to work with sugar or Sorbitol. I love honey, but making sure it's completely dissolved in water before the lye goes in the oil is highly recommended.


----------



## Arimara (Feb 23, 2021)

@AliOop I like honey in soap but on this I will have to agree. I just found out why so many of you guys like that aloe vera juice you can get. It's not as simple for me to acquire and I'm at the mercy of availability but I can see me using that instead of distilled water for a while.


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 23, 2021)

I seem to recall @IrishLass dissolves her honey in some warm water and then adds the dissolved honey to the lye solution not the fats. The honey and lye heat up at that point, rather than heat up later on in the soap batter. Again IIRC, she says this method works much nicer than the "add to the fats" method.


----------



## dibbles (Feb 23, 2021)

@DeeAnna you are correct about IrishLass's method. I made gardner's soap last week and added the honey to it that way. No drama from the honey at all. The lye water turned a bright orange color, but that didn't affect the outcome of the color of the soap.


----------



## Jersey Girl (Feb 23, 2021)

dibbles said:


> @DeeAnna you are correct about IrishLass's method. I made gardner's soap last week and added the honey to it that way. No drama from the honey at all. The lye water turned a bright orange color, but that didn't affect the outcome of the color of the soap.



Im assuming it should be added when the lye solution is cool?  This is good to know. I’ve used honey a couple times, but have been avoiding it for quite a while and I forgot this tip.  Thanks @DeeAnna and @dibbles!


----------



## dibbles (Feb 23, 2021)

Jersey Girl said:


> Im assuming it should be added when the lye solution is cool?  This is good to know. I’ve used honey a couple times, but have been avoiding it for quite a while and I forgot this tip.  Thanks @DeeAnna and @dibbles!


I used MB lye and dissolved the honey in the remaining batch water amount, then added that to the MB lye solution.


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 23, 2021)

I'd say you don't want the lye solution to be smokin' hot, but warm would be okay. Remember you can just add a little of the diluted honey at a time to control the rate of heating.


----------



## math ace (Apr 23, 2021)

My recipe includes aloe vera juice for 100% water replacement and coconut milk powder added to the oils.  Would sugar add bubbles to my current soap recipe since I already have these two additives in play?


----------

