# All your fault!!



## Sonya-m (Jul 22, 2015)

Argh!!! It's everyone on here's fault that this irritates me! I've given up replying that just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD use HP straight away!

Since I'm not replying anymore I've come here to vent (I know you guys will understand!)


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## Saponista (Jul 22, 2015)

Let it wash over you and find your zen. People will always be idiots, fail to take advice and do as they please. Just be thankful you know how to make fantastic soap and they suck!


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## Retropixie (Jul 22, 2015)

Remind your self...to each their own. I prefer CP...but everyone has their own thing. HP definitely has it's place in an emergency...and has saved my butt a few times.


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## FlybyStardancer (Jul 22, 2015)

Retropixie, what I think has her wanting to pull her hair out is the idea that HP doesn't need a cure. The consensus here is that HP needs just as much of a cure as CP, if not more.

Sonya, just remember: not your monkeys, not your circus. If someone wants to use uncured soap that will just melt away on them, that's their prerogative.


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## cmzaha (Jul 22, 2015)

A couple days ago a gal on that FB site posted she was so fantastically happy her new Olive Soap was fantastic. She made it the day before and let her young daughter try it. Her daughters hands looked extremely irritated from unsaponified lye. She mentioned how slick and nice feeling the soap was even though it would not lather. You just cannot stop stupidity.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 22, 2015)

Seriously?! I missed that one - did anyone inform her that lovely slick feeling could be the lye?!?


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## IrishLass (Jul 22, 2015)

FlybyStardancer said:


> Sonya, just remember: not your monkeys, not your circus.


 
 - Good saying. I like it. 

I completely understand how you feel, Sonya. Hopefully, as the months go by and she happens to use some of her older HP bars, she'll begin to wonder why they are milder and/or not so slick and irritating, and seem to last longer and lather better than her freshly unmolded HP bars. And then in her quest to find an answer, mayhaps she'll happen to stumble upon our forum.....and then, well....you know.... 




IrishLass


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## spenny92 (Jul 22, 2015)

Even for a newbie like me, it really irritates me seeing this kinda stuff! I'm trying to find this Facebook page/group but can't seem to find it - does anyone have a link?


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## Sonya-m (Jul 22, 2015)

Hopefully IL!! 

I got a message from someone through that group last week after I posted that it irritates me seeing people give new soapers bad advice - same thing, that HP is good to go straight away. She said it wasn't bad advice because it's true - I told that is her opinion and I stand by what I said!


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## Sonya-m (Jul 22, 2015)

I'm so thankful I found this forum before I found that FB page!!


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## cmzaha (Jul 22, 2015)

Sonya-m said:


> Seriously?! I missed that one - did anyone inform her that lovely slick feeling could be the lye?!?


LOL, of course I did...:razz:  Had to laugh then she back peddled what she said. But her childs hand pretty much told the story


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## Susie (Jul 22, 2015)

IrishLass said:


> - ... And then in her quest to find an answer, mayhaps she'll happen to stumble upon our forum.....and then, well....you know....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You know...she will pitch a hissy fit saying that we are trying to keep her from making any money, and that something else MUST be the cause, and we are all just mean and hateful, snarky, ugly, <fill in your favorite insult>!!!!!1!!!1!!!  And, and, and ...

Sorry, I might be a tad cynical today.:evil:


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## Jstar (Jul 23, 2015)

Yup, can't fix stupid.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jul 23, 2015)

Susie said:


> You know...she will pitch a hissy fit saying that we are trying to keep her from making any money, and that something else MUST be the cause, and we are all just mean and hateful, snarky, ugly, <fill in your favorite insult>!!!!!1!!!1!!!  And, and, and ...
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I might be a tad cynical today.:evil:




Not cynical at all!

But this post and some other recent ones about the garbage being touted on Facebook groups as knowledge make me very glad I never joined any of them


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## gigisiguenza (Jul 23, 2015)

I don't understand where people got the idea that HP soap needs no curing. I've not even made my first batch yet, but I've been researching the saponification process and soap making for months now and not seen anything that suggested HP needs less cure time. My assumption, based on the research was that hot or cold, lye is lye and it takes time to complete the process, and no amount of rushing it will change that. My only confusion so far was regarding water discount and if it shortened cure time, and even that, I wasn't sure of, so I asked.

That pic of that FB post about the kid using the fresh soap upset me. That kid could be scarred by the lye. Ugh.


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## not_ally (Jul 23, 2015)

cmzaha said:


> LOL, of course I did...:razz:  Had to laugh then she back peddled what she said. But her childs hand pretty much told the story



That is horrible.  Really. I don't have kids but can't imagine ever not noticing that and realizing I was wrong.


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## snappyllama (Jul 23, 2015)

I cannot imagine having anyone (let alone my child) use my products before I thoroughly test them.  Some people... grrr


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## Susie (Jul 23, 2015)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Not cynical at all!
> 
> But this post and some other recent ones about the garbage being touted on Facebook groups as knowledge make me very glad I never joined any of them



I joined them, then left them once I realized that:

1)  They enjoyed drama WAY too much.

2)  They often espouse ideas that I know are not good science/good sense.  Like allowing a kid to try HP soap right after it was made.


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## galaxyMLP (Jul 23, 2015)

gigisiguenza said:


> I don't understand where people got the idea that HP soap needs no curing. I've not even made my first batch yet, but I've been researching the saponification process and soap making for months now and not seen anything that suggested HP needs less cure time. My assumption, based on the research was that hot or cold, lye is lye and it takes time to complete the process, and no amount of rushing it will change that. My only confusion so far was regarding water discount and if it shortened cure time, and even that, I wasn't sure of, so I asked.
> 
> That pic of that FB post about the kid using the fresh soap upset me. That kid could be scarred by the lye. Ugh.



I used to think HP didnt need a cure when I first started about 3 years ago! I read about HP not needing a cure all over on blogs and I never took recipes from them (always ran them on a calculator) but since saponification was "done" I figured that it was ok to use. I didnt really realize the difference that cure itself makes because I read it so many times that HP is good to go when its done and I didnt have any reference at the time. As I soaped more, it became evident. (and I got affirmation of that here)


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## cmzaha (Jul 23, 2015)

I joined the group just for the entertainment of reading. There are a few knowledge people there, but not many


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## DeeAnna (Jul 23, 2015)

There's more than one FB soap making group and most have a fair bit of drama and misinformation, so just pick one and check it out. I bite my lip a lot too. I read a couple of liquid soap making groups .... same general level of drama with different names ... in fact, the LS makers seem rather more prone to go to extremes -- "I've been cooking my liquid soap paste for 3 days and it's still not done!"


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## Jstar (Jul 23, 2015)

snappyllama said:


> I cannot imagine having anyone (let alone my child) use my products before I thoroughly test them.  Some people... grrr



Right?? Nobody gets to even touch my soaps until I have thoroughly tested them myself, in the shower..on all parts...they can sniff and ohh and ahh..but thats it until Ive done the tests.


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## Susie (Jul 23, 2015)

Yup, I still also zap test every batch before ANYONE other than me gets to touch it.


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## dillsandwitch (Jul 24, 2015)

I also like to lick my soap before letting anyone else touch it.  Somehow now the threat of wash your mouth out with soap doesn't seem as scary as it did when i was a kid. Hahahaha


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## shunt2011 (Jul 24, 2015)

I love to visit the couple of FB groups I belong to just to see how much bad information is there.  It's unbelievable what people think is okay.   I see a lot of the HP being ready right after unmolding.   I don't usually get too involved because as some have said "you can't fix stupid" and that goes with advice too.    Sometimes I just laugh and move one.   I will however post if I see something way wrong.   I don't even let my grandchildren use my CP soaps yet(they are crazy little beasts in the tub 1 1/2& 2 1/2 years old).  Maybe soon though.  I couldn't imagine letting them use freshly made soap.


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## Dahila (Jul 24, 2015)

I am in Canadian soapers group, and it is awful.  Most people have no idea what they are doing.  How is it possible that they sell. Everyone is showing freshly poured soap, in the mold but not very often the cut )


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## TeresaT (Jul 24, 2015)

I too, used HP soap after it was unmolded and cut.  I thought as long as it is completely cooked and there is not lye in it, it's OK.  I made the stuff and I wanted to use it!  I was OK, but not great and I was wondering what's the big deal about homemade soap.  Then I thought it was the recipe and tried others.  Same thing.  However after reading that HP needs curing time, too, I put it away and left it alone for 6 weeks.  My Bastille, the one that volcanoed in the oven, is freakin' amazing!  It is ALL about the cure.  My other soaps feel much better, too.  Now, I've got some ends and pot scrapings that I use when the HP (or CP) is a few days old just at the kitchen sink.  I'll probably always do that.  But I won't use those to determine the quality of the soap.  Only time will tell.  Y'all made a believer out of me!


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## IrishLass (Jul 24, 2015)

I'm so glad I don't go on any of the Facebook soaping sites, which for me is easy since I actually don't have an FB account (I know, I'm so early '90's- I don't even have a smartphone. I have a plenty-smart-enough-for-me-flip-phone instead  ). Besides, I know myself only too well-going on those sites would get me in so much of a dither and riled up that there wouldn't be any space left in my mind to concentrate on better things... like our forum here. We have such a great group here.  


IrishLass


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## Sonya-m (Jul 30, 2015)

Right that's it! I've read (and corrected!) the last 'HP doesn't need a cure' and 'Ph strips work for ph testing soap' posts I intend to read or comment on!!

Too frustrating! I'm quitting the FB soap group!


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## Saponista (Jul 30, 2015)

I just saw the post you commented on and ended up wading in. I really should leave that group too. It does nothing for my sanity.


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## Sonya-m (Jul 30, 2015)

Yeah your post shut some of them up didn't it!!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jul 30, 2015)

See now I want to risk my sanity and have a look


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## Sonya-m (Jul 30, 2015)

Don't do it TEG, you'll be sucked in

On second thoughts go on and we'll watch you put them straight!!


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## Jstar (Jul 31, 2015)

OOOOoooo I wanna see!


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## Be Love (Jul 31, 2015)

I was very briefly a member of that group but had to leave for the same reason. Too many misinformed soaper's and too much drama! Not my circus (as someone put it) so I just left. I don't have time or energy for it! It is amazing how misinformed some soaper's are!!


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## DeeAnna (Aug 1, 2015)

In the FB tallow soapers group I'm in, one soaper said tallow makes a lot more glycerin than other soaping fats. I explained why that is not correct. Although we're having a reasonably civil discussion about the matter, it's pretty clear she doesn't believe a word of what I'm saying. I'm starting to grind my teeth.


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## Dorymae (Aug 1, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> In the FB tallow soapers group I'm in, one soaper said tallow makes a lot more glycerin than other soaping fats. I explained why that is not correct. Although we're having a reasonably civil discussion about the matter, it's pretty clear she doesn't believe a word of what I'm saying. I'm starting to grind my teeth.



Ha! There you go trying to ruin her good story with facts!


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## gigisiguenza (Aug 1, 2015)

I hadn't even thought to look on FB for soaping groups n now I'm glad I didn't. It bugs me enough when I'm watching YouTube videos and see people's kids running behind them while they are working with lye etc. I think a group full of misinformed people would make my brain explode LOL


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## Sonya-m (Aug 10, 2015)

Facebook strikes again!!


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## Saponista (Aug 10, 2015)

Let it go....... Let it go........... Sings loudly. Seriously though, you can't fix stupid.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 10, 2015)

I need to, really I need to let it go!!


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## IrishLass (Aug 10, 2015)

(announcer's voiceover) Tune in tomorrow for yet another episode of, As The Stick-blender Turns..... Will the hapless FB group follow A's faulty advice and douse their eyeballs with vinegar, or will they listen to S's lone pleas for reason? (cue ominous organ music). 


IrishLass


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## Dahila (Aug 10, 2015)

Facebook is evil with all the recepies for soap, lotion with beeswax of course (they tons of whinners about separation in lotion duuuh) 
I still think the worst is all that knowledgable people about Essential oils, especially essential oils used on children and animals........Horror stories


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 11, 2015)

Your subject "all your fault" got my attention.  I was expecting something like "I'm addicted to soap making".  Once I started reading I was laughing so hard I couldn't quit.  I quit FB long ago and for the same reason.  I didn't even leave my page up.  Drama doesn't even begin to explain my feelings about it.  At first blush I thought the person you described was young, or confused and didn't understand all the different methods for making soap.  If you grind up a bar of soap that has already cured, put it in the crock pot and add a few things you can use it.  I thought possibly she had confused a microwave dinner with cooking from scratch.  Then I realized it was a FB group -- enough said. I got so irritated with someone on FB I wanted to wring that someones neck for giving dangerous advice. I decided it was time to leave, before I screamed bloody murder.  Lye burns on a child fall into the same category.  It's no wonder those stupid TV shows say "don't try this at home" while they are jumping from the Empire State Building :Kitten Love:

One last thought...  By using FB I understood why our govt is so screwed up -- by the people for the people.  Sigh...


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## TwystedPryncess (Aug 11, 2015)

I'm teetering between curious mogwai wanting to go look,  but I know someone somewhere will have too much stupid in them and turn me into a gremlin.  Or some sort of evil corrective demoness,  and I don't really even consider myself anything other than beginning mediocre. Now ya'll went and done it!  Lol.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 11, 2015)

Sonya has left the building (well FB group but you know what I meant!)

Couldn't keep reading those posts. I get that some people chose not to wear gloves (this is what that post was originally about) but they made it sound ok not to and my concern is there are lots of new soapers finding that group who are going to be massively misinformed.


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## gigisiguenza (Aug 11, 2015)

Sonya, I am the same way about the YouTube videos. I watch them and get distracted from the actual tutorial or process because I'm busy being distressed by the fact that the soapers kid is walking into the frame, their face within inches of fresh soap batter full of active lye. Or their pets. I can't take the poor safety, or lack of it at all, with kids and animals around. It aggravates me enough that as soon as I hear or see a kid in frame, I close it n go to the next video.


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## shunt2011 (Aug 11, 2015)

But sometimes it's like an accident and you are driving by and can't help but look.   I just recently saw another post on a FB group about someone making HP so they can use it right away.  I just shook my head and moved on.


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## DeeAnna (Aug 13, 2015)

On a liquid soaper's FB group there is a thread discussing the pros and cons of using preservatives in LS. To support her opinion that LS does not need preservatives, one person explained that pickles are alkaline with a high pH, and since no preservative is needed for pickles so none is needed for LS. 

When I explained that pickles are acidic, she explained that I was wrong. She also informed me that "everyone knows" table salt used in pickling is alkaline. And she suggested if I'd bother to learn about pickles on the internet, I would Know These Things. 

Oy. I'm about to bang my head on the wall. :Kitten Love:


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## Saponista (Aug 13, 2015)

I feel your pain DeeAnna. If she had spent any time on this forum then she would realise that you are far more knowledgable than she is and that she's just making a fool of herself.


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## IrishLass (Aug 13, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> When I explained that pickles are acidic, she explained that I was wrong. She also informed me that "everyone knows" table salt used in pickling is alkaline. And she suggested if I'd bother to learn about pickles on the internet, I would Know These Things.
> 
> Oy. I'm about to bang my head on the wall. :Kitten Love:


 
Wow, I hope she doesn't teach canning workshops anywhere or anything like that, or else she'd find herself in a pickle for sure.  Other than that, I just have no words. :Kitten Love: 

Maybe FB really stands for FarceBook. Someone made a typo and forgot to include the 'r'. lol


IrishLass


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## kchaystack (Aug 13, 2015)

Wow...   just wow.

My uni professors are probably turning in their graves....


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## JayJay (Aug 13, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> On a liquid soaper's FB group there is a thread discussing the pros and cons of using preservatives in LS. To support her opinion that LS does not need preservatives, one person explained that pickles are alkaline with a high pH, and since no preservative is needed for pickles so none is needed for LS.
> 
> When I explained that pickles are acidic, she explained that I was wrong. She also informed me that "everyone knows" table salt used in pickling is alkaline. And she suggested if I'd bother to learn about pickles on the internet, I would Know These Things.
> 
> Oy. I'm about to bang my head on the wall. :Kitten Love:



Wow. I think that I've known that pickles were acidic since I was a chid... Well, probably because they are sour.   duh! I can see people running with misinformation in some situations when all of their sources are giving the same info. My first google searches turned up faulty information as well (about HP).  But at some point common sense should enter the picture. Anyone who has read a bottle of lye should know to wear gloves.


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## Susie (Aug 13, 2015)

I have to be very careful of the mood I am in to even read the one FB soaping group I am still a member of.  I don't really want to be banging my head against the wall, either.


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## Dahila (Aug 13, 2015)

yeah I just was corrected that parchment paper is better than freezer paper for lining molds. The same person told me that she gets the regular plastic bags for 3.99 a hundred and uses her hot gun to shrink them ......................I asked her for the name of the "wonderful" and so cheap bags................no answer ,    I would be scared to death even touch her soaps.   What pisses me off is the tone they use, they know *** t and are trying this very authoritative tone.......... If writing can be describe this way.   Most of them never heard about this forum) 
I am not sure stupid can be fixed


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## gigisiguenza (Aug 14, 2015)

I've been using parchment paper because I grabbed the wrong box at the store LOL. So far it's been ok. It's a little thin, and with the thinner batter I used on my swirl soap I had to be gentle pulling it away from the soap, but otherwise it has been ok. 

Is there some magic with freezer paper that I should know? Clue me in folks


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## Sonya-m (Aug 14, 2015)

Oh DeeAnna will you please just stop pretending to know what you're talking about!? Seriously? Pickles, alkaline? Kitten Love!!

I found myself typing really abrupt responses in the end so had to leave - I didn't like how I was coming across. That group was so infuriating though - a few members that have been there a while and seem to think they know everything - as a result other members seem to worship the ground they walk on. Oh and I love that one of them thinks she invented soleseife soap


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## DeeAnna (Aug 14, 2015)

Sonya ... you're a pill!!!

Susie, you've been doing good work on the FB liquid soaper group of yours ... explaining that the cold process method really works. They are having a hard time dealing with the fact that LS doesn't need to be cooked for three days over a fire circled 24/7 by virgins chanting to the soaper gods. 

I try to remind myself that everyone is entitled to have an opinion. I don't always agree with them, but I don't usually feel a great need to shout loud and long that my opinion is better. But there is a flavor of "don't confuse me with the facts" on FB at times that does grate on me. The alkaline pickles thing is a prime example.


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## Saponista (Aug 14, 2015)

Yep that lady drives me mad too. There's been a soleseife post on my blog for far longer and I quote where I found my original inspiration for it too! Then there's a mean crazy lady who thinks she is the authority on anything and gets really snarky if you help people first, then basically copies what you have said to try and make herself look better.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 14, 2015)

Saponista said:


> Yep that lady drives me mad too. There's been a soleseife post on my blog for far longer and I quote where I found my original inspiration for it too! Then there's a mean crazy lady who thinks she is the authority on anything and gets really snarky if you help people first, then basically copies what you have said to try and make herself look better.




Everyone knows Bunni invented soleseife so there!!


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## Sonya-m (Aug 14, 2015)

Out if curiosity how much longer did that post go on for after I flounced out?


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## Saponista (Aug 14, 2015)

It sort of died off fairly quickly. One lady put up a scientific journal saying a weak 5% acid solution was better for lye burns than water, but someone else then found that it was a pre clinical trial, then found the full trial and it concluded that water was best so she was proved wrong again.

The person whose shampoo bar recipe is revered as if it was the holy grail is the one that annoys me most. She is worshiped like some kind of Saint.


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## Sonya-m (Aug 14, 2015)

Ah yes, I know who you mean


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## Seawolfe (Aug 14, 2015)

I think you see this a lot online, and in my imagination before the intarwebs it was just confined to small towns and the Junior League. 

People who really DO know what they are talking about (like our clever ones here who we all rely on for good solid advice) tend to be simple, matter of fact and don't attach their ego to their advice. Then you have people who would very much like to feel important - like little girls playing dress up who will prance about with absolutely NO substance. Its actually pretty funny to watch, but I can't participate or Ill just make fun of them...


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## galaxyMLP (Aug 14, 2015)

I find myself often typing out responses to various Facebook posts (soap related and not), reading it over after I type it aaaaaand.... deleting it. I always seem to catch myself right before I get involved. 

I'm often thankful I didn't when someone posts something similar to what I had written an either causes the conversation to blow up or gets berated for saying whatever they did. I've learned to bite my theoretical internet tongue. I find reading though a conversation enough times gets me to think the people writing in it are so ridiculous, it becomes unworthy of my time.


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## Saponista (Aug 14, 2015)

You are so wise, I need to learn to be less impulsive.


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## commoncenz (Aug 14, 2015)

Sonya-m said:


> Oh DeeAnna will you please just stop pretending to know what you're talking about!? Seriously? Pickles, alkaline? Kitten Love!!
> 
> I found myself typing really abrupt responses in the end so had to leave - I didn't like how I was coming across. That group was so infuriating though - a few members that have been there a while and seem to think they know everything - as a result other members seem to worship the ground they walk on. *Oh and I love that one of them thinks she invented soleseife soap*



And did you hit her with a well timed gif? Such as:


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## galaxyMLP (Aug 14, 2015)

Saponista said:


> You are so wise, I need to learn to be less impulsive.


Maybe. If I had read the pickles are alkaline thing I think that would've put me over the edge and nothing could hold me back. That would kill me. We all have our limits! That lady wouldve gotten a serious science lesson from me. That wouldn't be very wise (or maybe in this case it would be??)


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## DeeAnna (Aug 14, 2015)

Actually I got about as blunt as I dared. Here's the exchange:

Other poster: ...have you ever made pickles in brine? It doesn't need preservatives because it has high PH. The same things applys to LS if you don't superfat and neutralize it, if you do, the PH would drop and then a preservative needs to come to the party....

Me: ...pickles are acidic (low pH) not alkaline (high pH).

Other poster: DeeAnna Weed, you can make pickles with vinegar or with salt and water. Search the meaning of the pickle on the internet . We make cucumber pickles with salt water and we can keep it for more than 1 year. Salt is alkaline not acidic as everyone knows.

Me: I am well aware what a pickle is and how to make pickles. If you make pickles with just salt and water, then you will end up with a naturally fermented pickle. This fermentation process produces lactic acid. Again, an acid -- any acid -- LOWERS the pH of the finished product, it does not raise it. <sigh> 

"... Salt is alkaline not acidic as everyone knows...." 
Really? Reeeallly???? I give up.


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## TeresaT (Aug 15, 2015)

I like stupid people.  I get to stir the pot.  And they don't know it's been stirred. I find that very entertaining.  I'm not very nice.


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