# Preservatives and the role of liquids in body butter?



## milky (Jun 10, 2017)

I have a few questions about formulation. Also not sure how to proceed with someone who really wants to buy. 
So, for Christmas I made some body butter to give to close family. I think it could be called body butter anyways.. It didn't contain any water because I didn't have any preservatives on hand. Is that butter or balm? There were two versions. One was just whipped shea butter and rosehip seed oil. The other one contained shea, lard, coconut oil (maybe?), rosehip seed oil, and a little fragrance. I put them in baby food jars and labeled with a sharpie. Super campy. 

Everyone loved it which is neat but I know I'm not experienced enough to sell any and my step mom has a coworker/friend who keeps bugging her about buying some. I don't remember the exact recipe I used though, and probably should add stuff like ROE and a preservative.. Unless she liked it because it didn't contain any.. That got me to wondering how necessary a preservative would be if I kept it without water. Then I wondered why there aren't more formulations like that. Is there anything wrong with it? Why add liquids? Does water help the oil apply or moisturize better and how important is it? I vaguely remember reading the answer somewhere but it's lost to me now.  

If I go ahead and make some more, what, if any, preservative should I add? Phenonip? Would Optiphen work? If I wanted to make a goat milk lotion as well, would I be able to use the same preservative or would it be have to be different because of the water content? 

A while back I was really interested in making goat milk lotion but I don't remember most of what I read. Kinda nervous about buying unfamiliar ingredients like emulsifiers and thickeners, etc. I've been holding off on making a purchase from SoapGoods just in case I decide to add this other lotion stuff to the order. Can anyone recommend a basic lotion supply list from what they sell?


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## Obsidian (Jun 10, 2017)

What you made is body butter, balms are thicker and usually made with wax of some kind.

If your product only contains oils, you don't need preservative. ROE will help the body butter from going rancid but if you use long lasting oils, that really shouldn't be a issue either.

I have some whipped body butter that is shea, coconut and olive. It's now just starting to smell a bit rancid and it's over three years old.

Still safe to use, the smell isn't from bacteria or other cooties. If it gets too smelly, I'll toss it and make some new.

Water is added to make a product moisturizing. Water is moisture, oil is a emollient. The oils coat the skin, keeping​ the water locked in better.
Body butter isn't really moisturizing but if used after a shower, it locks the moisture in and feels fantastic.

There is no reason to start adding water if your butters are getting good reviews. Once water is added, you introduce a whole new list of things that can go wrong.
My first few lotions molded, even with preservative.  What I make now seems stable and I'm ok giving it as gifts but I would never sell it without testing, just to make sure there are no cooties. You can't always see or smell bacteria/gems in lotions.


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## Dahila (Jun 10, 2017)

products with only oil and butters will not moisturize,   Only water can bring the moisture to the skin


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## Susie (Jun 10, 2017)

However, body butters and balms applied directly after a bath or shower will seal that moisture in.


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## BattleGnome (Jun 10, 2017)

IMO: a preservative would be useful in body butter if you expect the end user to stick a wet hand in the jar after a shower. At that point it would just be something to cover your butt just in case and not necessarily needed if you know the jar is going to end up on the end table in the living room.


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## Dahila (Jun 10, 2017)

Susie said:


> However, body butters and balms applied directly after a bath or shower will seal that moisture in.



Susie you are right, but I had tried oil on damp skin and it is not so easy to spread it :bunny:


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## milky (Jun 12, 2017)

Thanks all. I have found what you said to be true regarding it not being so moisturizing when made of oil only. As soon as I wash my hands they're back to being dry and crinkly. That's with using homemade, high superfat soap, too. 
I relayed the info to my step mom and she let her friend know. Don't know yet if she still wants any, original or a different formulation or none. I'd like to try a new version though.
I read that Phenonip would probably be good in an oil-only product like the first one. Would it also work well in a normal lotion with water included? 
SoapGoods sells something called "emulsifying wax pastilles." Are those good to use? It's INCI is Cetearyl Alcohol and Polysorbate 60. They have a ton of ingredients that I'm unfamiliar with and I don't know if anything else could act as an emulsifier. Do I need a thickener like stearic acid as well?


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## Nao (Jun 12, 2017)

I don't think so, if I remember correctly cetearyl alcohol is usually used as a thickener.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jun 12, 2017)

Aye, if it has those two you are okay


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## DeeAnna (Jun 12, 2017)

Nao said:


> ...I don't think so, if I remember correctly cetearyl alcohol is usually used as a thickener....



Yes, that is true, but lotions typically also include additional thickener for nicer texture of the lotion and better stability of the emulsion. Thickeners can also provide additional benefits such as being an oil-free conditioner for hair and skin. Cetyl alcohol being an example. In my experience, a separate thickener gives a nicer product.



> As soon as I wash my hands they're back to being dry and crinkly. That's with using homemade, high superfat soap, too....



High superfat does not mean the soap actually provides any conditioning to the skin. That superfat basically reduces the cleansing ability of the soap and that's about it. 

You can do the math to learn how much fat might possibly stick to the skin if you assume the superfat in soap can actually do that (stick to the skin I mean) rather than emulsifies with the soap itself so it rinses away. You'll find the amount that sticks is tiny. Far better to apply a good lotion or balm right after washing.

A butter or lotion can only do so much especially after washing the skin, but choosing the right ingredients can help it do its job a bit better. 

For example, fats high in stearic and palmitic fatty acids are more occlusive and emollient -- in other words they help protect and soothe the skin longer -- compared to fats lower in these fatty acids. That's why shea and other butters are so popular -- and why lard and tallow were just as popular in earlier times. I've made tallow or lard based balms that work well to give longer protection for my hands which crack badly in winter due to my job.

If you don't want a heavy lotion or butter, however -- say for a face lotion -- you might use other fats or use these high stearic-palmitic fats in smaller amounts.


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