# All the half-truths you can put on a label..



## Healinya (Dec 29, 2009)

1. Natural - natural means whatever you want it to mean. I disregard it when looking at the product.

2. Organic - also can mean anything. It doesn't have to be organic. For it to be Certified Organic, you need to pay for that right.

3. Not tested on animals - I don't care what it is.... at some point in human history, the ingredients in it were tested on animals.

4. Paraben free - Certain flower extracts are parabens... (plus the whole paraben controversy is just a marketing plan anyway - I like parabens myself) I looked up the msds for the common used preservatives. Parabens just look better on paper. 

5.No Synthetics - Is it me.... I kind of like my synthetics... I like that a scientist recreated something that is found in nature, or better yet - made an amazing discovry not found in nature but made by combining two of nature's elements. Just the power that our intellegence can produce is amazing. But really, what's the difference - whether manmade or 'natural' it's still the same thing. Except the manmade one is exact, consisitent from batch to batch, and it's been tested tested tested - where natural things can vary a great amount. Fact is that more people are allergic and have sensitivities over natural (from the earth) ingredients than they do manmade.

I'm not trying to spark a debate over it, but I'm curious what others think about the power of false advertising..


----------



## dagmar88 (Dec 29, 2009)

Natural: The whole natural thing is just clever marketing and people LOVE it. 
Makes them feel good about themselves; like they're making up for what they're poluting without having to enjoy life less.

Organic: We do buy a lot of organic foods, but only certified organic. Over here, to earn the certified organic mark, you need to be able to meet a lot of criteria.

We're not allowed to test cosmetics on animals anymore over here anyway. My cat likes to eat bits of coconut oil though, does that count?  

I like parabens; they're very reliable and very little people are paraben sensitive or allergic.

No synthetics? No one is taking my FO's from me!  :evil:

Big companies have clever marketing people who decide what way to go and the smaller business are just trying to make a living; I think we can all understand that.


----------



## kittywings (Dec 29, 2009)

I agree with the natural
Organic- I only believe it if it's certified organic
Animal testing is something that I do not agree with at all, there are still lots of companies that animal test new formulations, and I won't use those companies.

I take individual ingredients as they come, I don't make a blanket "no synthetic" rule.  I research each ingredient and only use the ones I feel are beneficial and not deemed toxic to some degree.


----------



## Candybee (Dec 30, 2009)

Can you imagine what it might be like if you had to list the 'carbon footprint' of your product on your label. That might have a whole nuther meaning to some. EG., you can attest to how 'natural' your product is but how about all the energy that was consumed to produce it? Might make ppl think twice. I can't imagine how one would go about quantifying it.

Sorry I strayed from the subject. Just a random thought that occurred to me.


----------



## donniej (Dec 30, 2009)

My personal favorite..... "Green".  Which is usually complete and utter BS.


----------



## Healinya (Dec 31, 2009)

hmm... I can easily see 'no carbon footprint' showing up in commercials and on packaging in 10 years. 

I'm just tired of people saying 'I need something that's all natural.' but can't name a single specific ingredient that they have sensitivities, too... That's when I tell them it may have nothing to do with the product, but more of a diet-related problem, and they should research how to nourish their skin from the inside lol.


----------



## Deb (Jan 5, 2010)

'With lipids'..yes it has fats. 
'organic'..well, last i checked organic chemistry = with carbon and oxygen molecules, so yes, it all counts..well, not water but that is an ingredient, not the end product right? 
Certified organic...When's the last time you could control where a bee flies? and if yes, do you really want them cooped up instead of free flying? Wher do you get 'certified organic' water?


----------



## Tabitha (Jan 5, 2010)

I think it is all a matter of striving to do better.... not being perfect.

What is the alternative? No one giving a flip about anything? A lot of it is BS, but much of it is heart felt. 

You can not write off all who use the terms because there are a few bad apples just as you can not write of an entire race , gender or nationality because of the actions of a few.


----------



## carebear (Jan 5, 2010)

water doesn't count in the "organic" equation.


----------



## kittywings (Jan 5, 2010)

Tabitha said:
			
		

> I think it is all a matter of striving to do better.... not being perfect.
> 
> What is the alternative? No one giving a flip about anything? A lot of it is BS, but much of it is heart felt.
> 
> You can not write off all who use the terms because there are a few bad apples just as you can not write of an entire race , gender or nationality because of the actions of a few.



I couldn't agree more... except for writing off entire races, etc.  I like my sterotypes!


----------



## Deda (Jan 5, 2010)

kittywings said:
			
		

> Tabitha said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ohsoap (Jan 5, 2010)

I have an experience with organic... I purchased hemp seed oil last month and didn't realize it was the organic bottle (not certified)  Went to restalk a few weeks ago and was surprised that the hemp oil was half the price and I got over twice as much.  I asked if it was onsale and they said nope, you must have gotten organic last time.  I asked if there was any difference in the outcome of my soap and was told Nope.... so I got the cheap stuff.
Organic = same sh*t ... bigger price tag

Natural = I agree with whole heartedly.  I try to go natural when ever I can, but I just can't give up my gel pit stick.  I tried, it wasn't pretty.  LOL
It really erks me that Lush uses SLS in their products, and still claim natural.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't sls a chemical?

 :evil:


----------



## chandler Trev (Jan 6, 2010)

carebear said:
			
		

> water doesn't count in the "organic" equation.



no carbon?


----------



## Bubbles Galore (Jan 6, 2010)

ohsoap said:
			
		

> Natural = I agree with whole heartedly.  I try to go natural when ever I can, but I just can't give up my gel pit stick.  I tried, it wasn't pretty.  LOL
> It really erks me that Lush uses SLS in their products, and still claim natural.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't sls a chemical?
> 
> :evil:



I think this explains it quite well.

http://www.shikai.com/publications/sodiumLaurylSulfate.htm


----------



## dagmar88 (Jan 6, 2010)

Deb said:
			
		

> Certified organic...When's the last time you could control where a bee flies? and if yes, do you really want them cooped up instead of free flying?



I don't know exactly what is going on in your country; but our bee population is decreasing rapidly. 
Instead of the normal 10% death rate during winter, it is now an average of 40% over here.
With the dissapearing of the bee both agriculture and wildlife will get in serious problems due to lack of pollination.
Our scientist think one of the main reasons the bees are dying are pesticides. The ones used presently and the ones from many years ago that are still poluting the environment.

In the Netherlands, the certified organic control stamp ensures the bees are able to collect their from nature, where no pesticides are used and that the hives are located at leas 7 km from farmers who use pesticides, any industry or traffic.

Also, the bees are treated more animal friendly; they hibernate on their own honey, the honeycombs are made out of beeswax, the beehive is made out of natural materials and when the beecolony is ill they are treated with medicines as natural as possible. 

So it is not about being able to conrol where a bee flies, nor about locking them up; it is about taking care of nature in the best way possible.



			
				ohsoap said:
			
		

> Organic = same sh*t ... bigger price tag



First of all I do hope both hemp seed oils were quality products.
Altough you won't see or feel any difference in your soap; there is a distinct difference between the both.

The organic farmer's land has been chemical (fertilizer, pesticides etc) free for several years and he is not using any chemical/synthetic substances, or genetically modified crops. 
Also he accurately records everything he does and is often inspected. This is on top of the local food safety and agricultural regulations.

The price difference (on average about 50 to 100%) is a result of the crops being more vulnerable when pests occure, lower yields, more manual labor etc.

For someone who's not interested in using organic products in general and isn't in business; buying organic soap ingredients probably isn't useful   

My vegetables are certified organic/biodynamic and DH & I wouldn't ever want to do without them. (even though he was very sceptic to start with!)
And to have the address and name of every farmer and farmer's wife our vegetables come from feels very comforting to us.

My point was, everyone should do what they think is right, or a good midway. :wink: live & let live.

The FDA hasn't defined the term natural; so there are no guidelines yet and everyone is allowed and able to call their B&B products natural.


----------



## Tabitha (Jan 6, 2010)

Albert Einstein: "No bees, no food for mankind. The bee is the basis of life on this earth."


----------



## kittywings (Jan 6, 2010)

I have been worried sick about the bees for years now, ever since I heard about the population dying.  I heard there might be a connection with the decreasing population and cell phones too....
 :shock:


----------



## dagmar88 (Jan 6, 2010)

Yes, apparently it's the radiation... 
And Einstein is very right!

I hope they find out what's the problem soon & are able to solve it. 
In the main time I think all soapmakers around here are doing a great job protecting the environment by bringing down mass production, caring about quality and the Earth. So we're all 'green'!


----------

