# A Few CP Questions



## Dirty Boy (Dec 19, 2013)

Hi, does anyone have any knowledge of truly sustainable palm oil production? Is there such a thing, and if so, how do I know if I'm getting it or not?

Next, having little success with rebatching - seems impossible to melt soap, even finely grated, without water and a great deal of stirring, which seems to produce a very airy/bubbly final product. My question: Is there a way to finely grate and then add a small amount, say the equivalent of one bar, of rebatch soap to a new batch (perhaps while heating the fats/oils?) with good effect? Perhaps using the stick blender to emulsify and more finely chop the rebatch soap...

And, finally, does anyone have any advice for using fragrances like cocoa/chocolate, vanilla, hazlenut, coconut, almond, etc...? Any special considerations in making sure the fragrance is preserved in the end product? Good sources? Should I use essential oils, fragrance oils, or just ground nuts/beans?

THANKS! and HAPPY HOLIDAYS


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## dixiedragon (Dec 19, 2013)

Welcome!

1) I don't use palm. I use lard. Don't know if you are dead-set on a veggie bar, but if you're not, try lard. Easy, cheap, makes great soap.

2) Rebatching. I also have had little success with rebatching. I'm ashamed to admit - I just throw the soap away. For me, I spent a lot of time and effort grating soap, cooking soap, etc, adding even more ingredients to try to make it work, only to have it not ever really work for me. Depending on why you are rebatching, you can simply cut the soap into small chunks and mix it into a batch of new soap.

3) Fragrances - The smells of the ingredients you mention - coconut, chocolate, etc - will not survive the soap making process. Firstly, the smells simply are not concentrated enough. And secondly, raw soap is harsh stuff and a lot of things don't survive the process.  You'll need fragrance oils for those smells. There's no such thing as vanilla, hazelnut, etc essential oil.

4) Ground nuts and beans - You do want to be careful of how much non-soap stuff you put in soap. It can mold, etc. I make coffee soap and I will simply put some grounds in my lye water. The grounds add a nice scrubbing effect and also a slight coffee scent. But if I want a strong coffee scent, I get a FO (fragrance oil). You can put ground nuts, etc in your soap for a scrubbing effect.


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## alaskazimm (Dec 19, 2013)

For sustainable palm oil, I've used Soap Making Resource's. They have their palm oil in two catergories - sustainable and non. But I truly don't have the inside scoop on if it is or not. Best be may be to call the places that advertise sustainable source and talk to them.


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## seven (Dec 19, 2013)

i'm not a big fan of rebatching as i hate the grating process. but, one must do it, as i hate it more to waste ingredients. perhaps you can add a bit of liquid (water, milk) as it does help the soap to melt better. 

here's a video on soapqueen on how to rebatch. she has other tutorials on rebatching too.


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## cmzaha (Dec 19, 2013)

I find adding in some liquid to your grated soap and melting it down in the oven works best. I have tried rebatch in a crock pot with unsatisfactory results, but at 200 degrees in the oven it melts down nicely. You can always grate up the soap and add it as confetti to a new batch of soap.
I buy sustainable palm from  Cibaria Soap Supply. Do I know 100 percent it is sustainable nope, just go by their claim


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## Derpina Bubbles (Dec 19, 2013)

About the palm oil, the supplier of Sustainable Palm Oil should hold a registered copy of the RSPO Certification for their stock. RSPO is Roundtable on Sustainable Palm Oil.


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## boyago (Dec 19, 2013)

alaskazimm said:


> For sustainable palm oil, I've used Soap Making Resource's. They have their palm oil in two catergories - sustainable and non. But I truly don't have the inside scoop on if it is or not. Best be may be to call the places that advertise sustainable source and talk to them.



It's also kind of weird that they are the same price.  You'd think if they could charge the same for either they'd just sell the sustainable.


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## alaskazimm (Dec 20, 2013)

The palm kernel oil and sustainable palm oil are the same price. The regular palm is is a bit cheaper. I've had very good luck with their oils so I will continue to use them.


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## Ruthie (Dec 23, 2013)

Dirty Boy said:


> Next, having little success with rebatching - seems impossible to melt soap, even finely grated, without water and a great deal of stirring, which seems to produce a very airy/bubbly final product. My question: Is there a way to finely grate and then add a small amount, say the equivalent of one bar, of rebatch soap to a new batch (perhaps while heating the fats/oils?) with good effect? Perhaps using the stick blender to emulsify and more finely chop the rebatch soap...
> 
> THANKS! and HAPPY HOLIDAYS


 
I've rebatched and added grated soap to what I melted and it wasn't beautiful- mainly because of the mix of everything I was using- but the process worked well. 

I've also made a batch with just one color of grated soap and it looked fine- until the color of the grated pieces started to bleed. So that would be something to look out for. But the process works fine!! I just stirred the grated bits into a half-filled mold of fresh batter. Then added enough batter to finish filling and stirred a bit more. The grated pieces did suspend themselves nicely.

FWIW the color that bled was overdyed alkanet root....


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## Dirty Boy (Dec 23, 2013)

*Thanks - and one more question *

Thanks to all for your generosity and insight! Regarding the fragrance  oils, I am happy to have found them all at a local health food store,  and they are cheaper than essential oils, too! Just wondering if anyone  thinks it would be a better idea, i.e. help the fragrance(s) to "stick"  if I did hot-process instead? Is it the chemical saponification that  generally kills these fragrances, or is it temperature related?

Happy holidays!


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## eyeroll (Dec 23, 2013)

I don't do HP so am probably the absolute worst person on the forum to answer this, but my understanding of fragrance in CP is that the chemical reaction affects the scent, so yes, doing HP would preserve more scent. 

I believe the flashpoint of EOs/FOs have something to do with the temp at which you HP, so I am sure someone more knowlegeable will chime in.


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## dixiedragon (Dec 23, 2013)

I just did HP for the first time in November. I am totally digging it! I use the fragrance at 1/2 the amount recommended for CP and it is just as strong. I am planning on trying it with some FOs (such as citrus) that are notorious for fading in CP.

BTW, my HPed vanilla soap is just gorgeous! Vanilla FOs turn CP soap brown (unless you add a stabilizer, which I don't). The HPed vanilla has this delicated marbled look of transluscent, white, off-white, tan and brown.


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## seven (Dec 23, 2013)

dixiedragon said:


> I just did HP for the first time in November. I am totally digging it! I use the fragrance at 1/2 the amount recommended for CP and it is just as strong. I am planning on trying it with some FOs (such as citrus) that are notorious for fading in CP.
> 
> BTW, my HPed vanilla soap is just gorgeous! Vanilla FOs turn CP soap brown (unless you add a stabilizer, which I don't). The HPed vanilla has this delicated marbled look of transluscent, white, off-white, tan and brown.



another reason why i love HP, less EO/FO and the scent sticks better! i recently had trouble with rose FO in CP. did a HP, and it is def better now (no fast trace, no ricing, scent sticks, i am a happy camper). 

the only problem with HP before was the rustic look. i don't dislike it, i just prefer the smooth look of a CP, but now this problem also has a solution with sodium lactate (frikkin love that stuff).


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 29, 2013)

An important note on this that isn't 100% clear from the thread - in HP add the scent AFTER the gel phase.  It's the saponification in CP that is the issue with the scents, but with HP you can add the scents after the saponification has finished (gel phase is over).

If you add it before saponification in HP, you'll have the same result with the scent as if it was CP.


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