# New here and need help with my liquid soap recipe...



## joshsoapguy (Dec 12, 2021)

Hey everyone, I'm Josh... I'm new here, can't believe I haven't came across these forums until now. I've been making soap for a few years and recently turned it into a business that is actually catching on very fast and I'm getting busier and busier... I'm getting a ton of requests for a liquid soap... I see that people mentioned here the SMF recipe but I can't seem to find it... I googled recipes but haven't came up with one similar to the amount of liquid soap I want to make or one with percentages of oils for me to substitute. 

If anyone could pass along a percentage liquid soap recipe I would be extremely grateful... thanks to everyone who took the time to read this


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## ResolvableOwl (Dec 12, 2021)

Welcome @joshsoapguy to SMF!

not sure what you mean by “the SMF recipe”? There are literally hundreds of LS recipes across SMF, especially in the liquid soap sub-forum – you can sort it by Filters→Views→Descending for a simple popularity metric.

And what are you meaning with “percentage LS recipe”? Every soap calculator will let you work with percentages (ratio between oils and KOH). The one tricky thing with LS, where these calculators can't help you, is the percentage of _dilution_, i. e. the ratio of paste (oils+KOH+batch water) to dilution water to reach the final viscosity. There is quite some folk wisdom about this, scattered across all places of LS resources. If you cannot find helpful advice to the oil blend you're aiming at (or a similar one), you'll have to find out yourself by trial and error. Like I did to grasp single-oil LS dilution rates.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 12, 2021)

What recipe/s are you currently using? What do you like/not like about them?


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## Professor Bernardo (Dec 12, 2021)

Welcome to the SMF!  No one here is going to hand you a formula for liquid soap, there are way too many variables involved, especially if they use that formula in their own business.  Different oils used, variations of processes, etc.  Hot process (most common), Modified Cold Process (an intriguing process), and a Hybrid Hot/Cold Process. 

I highly suggest you get this book:  
*Making Natural Liquid Soaps*
*by Catherine Failor




*

Go to this website and you can get it "used" for $3.09 plus a $2.64 shipping fee.  AbeBooks


It's what got me started making liquid soaps over 20 years ago.  A few things have changed proportion-wise but other than that, it is a great resource to use.
The SMF calculator listed above has a "Liquid" soap option and you can fiddle around with it to see which oil impart which properties you desire.
For a liquid soap, coconut oil is highly recommended, but it's not a must.  Olive oil and/or High Oleic Sunflower oil are also high on my list. 

As the @ResolvableOwl stated... the trickiest part of liquid soap is the dilution rate.  It took me several batches until I realized that I need to start off with a really low ratio of soap paste to distilled water, and then work my up from there.  It's also advisable to always work with warm paste (if possible) and nearly boiling water or at least about 180°F to begin the dilution process.  The Owl endeavored to use a "SINGLE OIL" type liquid soap and it took that feathered fowl a while to get it right.

Once you get the hang of it... you will fall very deep into that rabbit hole!  
Good Luck!



The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> What recipe/s are you currently using? What do you like/not like about them?


From what I read, apparently @joshsoapguy has no recipes yet and is searching for one.


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## joshsoapguy (Dec 12, 2021)

Thank you so much, really freaking appreciate it... ordering it right now

and yes I could only imagine, the soap rabbit holes that I've already been in are fascinating but I truly love it so to me they're good rabbit hole, not the kind like when you watch the matrix and then a million youtube videos lol



The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> What recipe/s are you currently using? What do you like/not like about them?


I currently don't use any liquid soap recipe. I do strictly cold process bars as of current



ResolvableOwl said:


> Welcome @joshsoapguy to SMF!
> 
> not sure what you mean by “the SMF recipe”? There are literally hundreds of LS recipes across SMF, especially in the liquid soap sub-forum – you can sort it by Filters→Views→Descending for a simple popularity metric.
> 
> And what are you meaning with “percentage LS recipe”? Every soap calculator will let you work with percentages (ratio between oils and KOH). The one tricky thing with LS, where these calculators can't help you, is the percentage of _dilution_, i. e. the ratio of paste (oils+KOH+batch water) to dilution water to reach the final viscosity. There is quite some folk wisdom about this, scattered across all places of LS resources. If you cannot find helpful advice to the oil blend you're aiming at (or a similar one), you'll have to find out yourself by trial and error. Like I did to grasp single-oil LS dilution rates.


Thanks you so much, I was struggling navigating here a little bit so that helped alot ^ I'm trying my best to avoid the trial and error game but I know it's part of the process... when I first started cold process I had a few recipes that tried my patience until I finally locked it in so I understand, thanks for pointing me in the right direction, very much appreciated


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## ResolvableOwl (Dec 13, 2021)

Ohhh, don't listen to me when you want to avoid trial & error . I'm still learning new stuff every day, and I expect (read: hope) this will stay so for some time.


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## Zany_in_CO (Dec 14, 2021)

Hi Josh and Welcome!
I've been making LS since 2004 and I was a member of the Liquid Soap Makers Yahoo Group for 10 years. I'm a little late to the party, but hopefully I can help you get off on the right foot.



joshsoapguy said:


> I'm getting a ton of requests for a liquid soap


Lye-based LS tends to be "watery" with great lather. If you're looking to make an LS that rivals what your customers can buy at Target or wherever, then you are up for a challenge. You may want to think about buying a base and just adding scent & color.

*WSP's Crystal Clear Shower Gel*



joshsoapguy said:


> I see that people mentioned here the SMF recipe but I can't seem to find it


There are about as many different ways to make LS as there are LS-ers! The most popular LS tutorial on SMF is @IrishLass 's. She may pop in with a link but it is not a "basic" recipe. Just one that a lot of members enjoy making. It's best to try something less advanced for a first-timer.


joshsoapguy said:


> I googled recipes but haven't came up with one similar to the amount of liquid soap I want to make or one with percentages of oils for me to substitute.


If you use *SoapCalc* you can enter any size batch. Calculate for pounds, ounces or grams. Then you can switch to the "%" option to resize the batch to 12-16 ounces which is plenty starting out. 12 oz. oils yields 16 oz. paste (soap) which you can then divide into 4 portions to determine the amount of dilution water you want your batch to have -- i.e., the "viscosity" of the final product.

Some soapers prefer to just add enough water to reach the viscosity of commercial LS. They end up with a nice feel but it requires more rinsing (wasted soap down the drain) to get all the residue off.

For the "perfect measure", i.e., LS that rinses off quickly and cleanly, here's how I do it:

*DILUTION RATE*


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## HoliHealerz (Feb 18, 2022)

Professor Bernardo said:


> Welcome to the SMF!  No one here is going to hand you a formula for liquid soap, there are way too many variables involved, especially if they use that formula in their own business.  Different oils used, variations of processes, etc.  Hot process (most common), Modified Cold Process (an intriguing process), and a Hybrid Hot/Cold Process.
> 
> I highly suggest you get this book:
> *Making Natural Liquid Soaps*
> ...


I can only share what I learned in my first try.  I wanted to see the effect of pure tallow.  I used sheep and the cook was dry so I added water enough to liquidy it for cooking.  The result was a white liquid soap which I was told was not drying on the body by a freind who now uses it for the gym where her body was getting too.dry by commercial LS.  There is a pearly sheen to my soap and although I have not figured out the quantity of water yet so I set it all aside, it is still good for using on hands but although several friends have said that they will use it in the shower (I left it thick enough for them to add glycerine and /or water to add their own choices.  I used nerolic for scent in some and mint in others.  The one with glycerine left a moisturized feel and the one that didn't was a LITTLE dry but OK.  So that was my single fat/oil experience and I think that I will make a 100% coconut oil ls to mix with my tallow LS to make it more cleansing.  It is only gently cleansing right now.  Hope this helped.  My soap IS opaque but clarity was not my focus in properties, I knew that tallow would have the opaque aspect to it logically.



HoliHealerz said:


> I can only share what I learned in my first try.  I wanted to see the effect of pure tallow.  I used sheep and the cook was dry so I added water enough to liquidy it for cooking.  The result was a white liquid soap which I was told was not drying on the body by a freind who now uses it for the gym where her body was getting too.dry by commercial LS.  There is a pearly sheen to my soap and although I have not figured out the quantity of water yet so I set it all aside, it is still good for using on hands but although several friends have said that they will use it in the shower (I left it thick enough for them to add glycerine and /or water to add their own choices.  I used nerolic for scent in some and mint in others.  The one with glycerine left a moisturized feel and the one that didn't was a LITTLE dry but OK.  So that was my single fat/oil experience and I think that I will make a 100% coconut oil ls to mix with my tallow LS to make it more cleansing.  It is only gently cleansing right now.  Hope this helped.  My soap IS opaque but clarity was not my focus in properties, I knew that tallow would have the opaque aspect to it logically.


Neroli*


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## Professor Bernardo (Feb 18, 2022)

HoliHealerz said:


> My soap IS opaque but clarity was not my focus in properties, I knew that tallow would have the opaque aspect to it logically.


How about some photos?


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## HoliHealerz (Feb 18, 2022)

That WOULD BE logical wouldn't it.  Ok.  Let me take some 



Professor Bernardo said:


> How about some photos?


Actually by opaque, I should have said white.  Some things are obvious only to the conveyer of information.


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## Zany_in_CO (Feb 18, 2022)

HoliHealerz said:


> Actually by opaque, I should have said white.


Tallow & lard result in opaque soap. Both have benefits when combined with other oils.

*What to Expect from Various Oils in LS*



HoliHealerz said:


> I will make a 100% coconut oil ls to mix with my tallow LS to make it more cleansing.



*Zany's 100% Coconut Oil LS for Laundry*

Good thinking! My 50/50 PKO & Lard Hair & Body Shampoo is a favorite with friends and family. It also sells well -- scented with Peppermint or Lavender essential oils. What is interesting, it starts out opaque white with a little pearlessence then clears after about 6 months.


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## HoliHealerz (Feb 18, 2022)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Tallow & lard result in opaque soap. Both have benefits when combined with other oils.
> 
> *What to Expect from Various Oils in LS*
> 
> ...


That IS odd but interesting. Thank you for the recipe link. I will try it out.  Inreally want.to replace commercial laundry powder and add a nice EO.  I'll post if and when I make this one.  Thank you again. Good job with coming up with a favorite formula.  I'm still not happy with the shampoo bars I've made although others are.  I really want to find a good herbal liquid shampoo formula or recipe. 

About the tallow.  I agree, I just cannot get myself to make soap without tallow (sheep and /or camel (mostly home rendered).  That's in bars and although it took me 5 + hours to work myself through the first LS.  I know that I will go back and do the coconut one.  I think I want to experience the clear.  Anyone made shower gel?
I will follow that other LS link you sent.  Thanks again.


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## Zany_in_CO (Feb 18, 2022)

HoliHealerz said:


> I really want to find a good herbal liquid shampoo formula or recipe.


I have lots to say about that. Whenever you're ready, use the *Recipe Feedback Forum* to start a new thread to get advice about it or to get input for a formula before you try it. 

PS: Don't mind the "Syndet Naysayers" who will use scare tactics to discourage you from making a lye-based shampoo. There are plenty of us who do, only we aren't as vocal about it, i.e., it's one of those subjects that provokes a strong emotional response. Sigh.


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## HoliHealerz (Feb 18, 2022)

Zany_in_CO said:


> I have lots to say about that. Whenever you're ready, use the *Recipe Feedback Forum* to start a new thread to get advice about it or to get input for a formula before you try it.
> 
> PS: Don't mind the "Syndet Naysayers" who will use scare tactics to discourage you from making a lye-based shampoo. There are plenty of us who do, only we aren't as vocal about it, i.e., it's one of those subjects that provokes a strong emotional response. Sigh.


I had no idea.  I will see you on the other thread, we can continue there.  Thank you for your guidance.  Maybe someone will explain WHY?? I did actually see someone tellling Marissa from that Tallow site, come to think of it that lye is not good for hair and she responded that she had been using it for 5 years with amazing results.  She told them.  What is shampoo made of then??  (On the other thread) and everyone else here SORRY!!!


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## ResolvableOwl (Feb 18, 2022)

All hair is not created equal. Some can use lye-based soaps, some can't. This has more to do with the properties of the hair than with the soap. You can't know to which group you belong, until you try it.


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## HoliHealerz (Feb 18, 2022)

Zany_in_CO said:


> I have lots to say about that. Whenever you're ready, use the *Recipe Feedback Forum* to start a new thread to get advice about it or to get input for a formula before you try it.
> 
> PS: Don't mind the "Syndet Naysayers" who will use scare tactics to discourage you from making a lye-based shampoo. There are plenty of us who do, only we aren't as vocal about it, i.e., it's one of those subjects that provokes a strong emotional response. Sigh.


There is another thing that cme to me just now and I would have thought that anyone in the field of science (soap making) would have risen to this level of personal evolution.  The point is that just as in philosophy and ethics (my background) there should be no emotion, in the same way there should be no emotional eruptions in science either.  I mean logic and reason in philosophy is as facts in science.  What reason do people have to become emotional about something that can be reasoned.  We are not children.  If someone acts emotionally about something that they disagree with - its a sign of fear AND politics (power).  ONE should be able to argue intellectually about anything without emotions covering or trying to cover up facts.  Just like I know that the nutrients in soap affect the skin and one who comes from a soaping background tries to ridicule this understanding because they lack healing information, we should be able to defend our claims if we disagree rather than stating.an Opinion as a fact just because others may back us up.
I will defend ANYONE who is ready to stand up for their stand - if the facts support them.  Anything should be able to be vocal.  
Stepping off the soapbox.



ResolvableOwl said:


> All hair is not created equal. Some can use lye-based soaps, some can't. This has more to do with the properties of the hair than with the soap. You can't know to which group you belong, until you try it.


I had no idea. Is this a fact? Could it be something to do with the type of oil rather than the lye? How will we know that it is indeed the lye that we cannot tolerate? So many questions.


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## ResolvableOwl (Feb 18, 2022)

There is no lye in lye-based soap.


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## HoliHealerz (Feb 18, 2022)

ResolvableOwl said:


> There is no lye in lye-based soap.


Because its been converted to soap? I guess I am not sure what that means.


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## ResolvableOwl (Feb 18, 2022)

HoliHealerz said:


> Because its been converted to soap?


Yes. Someone who tells you “that lye is not good for hair” is factually absolutely right, but at the same time has no clue what soap is.


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## HoliHealerz (Feb 18, 2022)

ResolvableOwl said:


> Yes. Someone who tells you “that lye is not good for hair” is factually absolutely right, but at the same time has no clue what soap is.


That's funny


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## Susie (Feb 19, 2022)

Soaping 101 liquid soapmaking video?
					

Hello!  I have a bunch of people asking me to make liquid soap, so I'd like to give it a try.  I was watching soaping 101's youtube video and noticed that she used glycerin instead of water to make it.  I understand that it speeds up the process considerably, but does it also contribute to the...




					www.soapmakingforum.com
				




I use the recipe in post #8.



ResolvableOwl said:


> All hair is not created equal. Some can use lye-based soaps, some can't. This has more to do with the properties of the hair than with the soap. You can't know to which group you belong, until you try it.



^^^This!!!
My hair won't tolerate it. I learned it the hard way and lost a LOT of hair. But if it works for you, go for it.


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## Zany_in_CO (Feb 19, 2022)

ResolvableOwl said:


> Yes. Someone who tells you “that lye is not good for hair” is factually absolutely right, but at the same time has no clue what soap is.



This is what one courageous soul had to say about that in this thread.

*Rehab Hair or How to Get Away from Lye Based Shampoo*



Susie said:


> ^^^This!!! My hair won't tolerate it. I learned it the hard way and lost a LOT of hair. But if it works for you, go for it.


And so it begins... I rest my case in Post #13.



HoliHealerz said:


> Maybe someone will explain WHY?? I did actually see someone tellling Marissa from that Tallow site, come to think of it that lye is not good for hair and she responded that she had been using it for 5 years with amazing results.


So now we travel into the area of "anecdotal evidence".

Susie is sharing her experience -- no doubt with the best of intentions. My experience is quite different. I had excellent mentors when I first used soap for shampoo in 2004. FWIW, I think those that complain about damaged hair from using lye-based shampoo -- hard bars or liquid -- didn't have that advantage.

Read more here:
*Everything About Using Natural Shampoo Bars*


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## HoliHealerz (Feb 19, 2022)

Susie said:


> ^^^This!!!
> My hair won't tolerate it. I learned it the hard way and lost a LOT of hair. But if it works for you, go for it.


Sorry to hear.


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## HoliHealerz (Feb 19, 2022)

Zany_in_CO said:


> So now we travel into the area of "anecdotal evidence".
> 
> Susie is sharing her experience -- no doubt with the best of intentions. My experience is quite different. I had excellent mentors when I first used soap for shampoo in 2004. FWIW, I think those that complain about damaged hair from using lye-based shampoo -- hard bars or liquid -- didn't have that advantage.
> 
> ...


Most probably.


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## AliOop (Feb 19, 2022)

Zany_in_CO said:


> FWIW, I think those that complain about damaged hair from using lye-based shampoo -- hard bars or liquid -- didn't have that advantage.


Dear @Zany_in_CO ,

I do have the greatest affection and respect for you. You also know that I'm in the minority camp of people, like you, who can use soap as shampoo with no ill effects (_and that's without any need to follow your cool water rinsing protocol - diluted ACV with rosemary and lavender EO works great for me)_. I say all that as a preface to my main point, in the hope that you can receive what I say as one friend to another.

When you make statements like the one I quoted above, what others hear is that you think they aren't as smart as you are, and that they too would have success with hair soap if they only followed the protocol that works so well for you. When you minimize or outright dismiss the extremely traumatic experience for people who practically had to shave their heads due to damage from hair soap, they (rightfully) become hurt and upset, and their responses reflect that. Reading back through the threads, this seems to be the root of the arguments over this issue which have spanned many threads in this forum. 

It's kind of like someone who can drink coffee right up to bedtime, telling others who cannot do so, that they must be drinking coffee the wrong way. Or that because they can eat gluten, someone else who can't eat gluten must be imagining it all -- or eating the wrong kind of wheat product, or not taking the right supplements, etc. No, we are all different. We don't have the same body chemistry, hair type, diet, water quality - so many variables. 

My husband followed the exact same protocol as I did for washing our hair with soap. He was fine for years, and then suddenly, he was not fine. His scalp began flaking severely, and his short, thick, healthy hair began breaking off and thinning. We tried all the things - different recipes, different rinses, different EOs/additives, etc. etc. - and none of them worked. He had to go back to syndets. Once he did, everything cleared up almost immediately. He does have some very significant health issues, for which he must take medications, and no doubt that also plays into things for him. But I can assure you, his inability to use soap on his hair has nothing to do with improper rinsing technique, or using the wrong recipes. Because we do like to keep things "natural" when we can, we tried everything before giving up (same with medications for his health issues - those are always last resort for us). Sadly, hair soap just doesn't work for him anymore. Fortunately, he can still use my handcrafted soap on his body, as long as it doesn't contain certain EOs and FOs which make his eczema and psoriasis flare up.

I know you have such a kind heart and don't intend to dismiss the experience of others. Maybe you feel like they have dismissed yours as well, for which I'm sorry. Perhaps when we talk about soap as shampoo, we should start each post with something like, 

_"People have very disparate experiences with hair soap. I'd like to share mine. In addition, I'd encourage you to research the topic thoroughly so you are aware of the possible risks and benefits, and can make the best decision for your own hair."_

Fondly,

AliOop


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## HoliHealerz (Feb 20, 2022)

Professor Bernardo said:


> How about some photos?





Professor Bernardo said:


> How about some photos?





AliOop said:


> Dear @Zany_in_CO ,
> 
> I do have the greatest affection and respect for you. You also know that I'm in the minority camp of people, like you, who can use soap as shampoo with no ill effects (_and that's without any need to follow your cool water rinsing protocol - diluted ACV with rosemary and lavender EO works great for me)_. I say all that as a preface to my main point, in the hope that you can receive what I say as one friend to another.
> 
> ...


Reasonable


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## Professor Bernardo (Feb 20, 2022)

Thanks for the photo.


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## HoliHealerz (Feb 20, 2022)

Professor Bernardo said:


> Thanks for the photo.


Welcome


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## Lyric (Feb 20, 2022)

What a beautiful, kind, well thought out response to whatever you all were discussing.  This touched my heart this Sunday morning.  Talking to AliOop said:


HoliHealerz said:


> Reasonable


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## HoliHealerz (Feb 20, 2022)

Lyric said:


> What a beautiful, kind, well thought out response to whatever you all were discussing.  This touched my heart this Sunday morning.  Talking to AliOop said:


 

Thank you.


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