# Basic trinity of oils starter formula



## Zany_in_CO (Apr 27, 2019)

A balanced bar starts with the Basic Trinity of Soapmaking Oils:

BASIC TRINITY OF OILS STARTER  FORMULA

Olive Oil 35%  ~ for emollience, conditioning
Coconut 25% (or PKO* or Babassu) ~ for hardness, lather
Palm or Lard 40% (or GV* Shortening from Walmart) ~ for bulk

*PKO = Palm Kernel Oil (flakes)
*GV = Good Value

After getting the feel on trace times, bar hardness, lather, etc., start tweaking, to build other elements into the bar… TAKE NOTES each time you tweak the formula.

TWEAK 1
Olive 30%
Coconut or PKO 22%
Palm, Lard or Shortening 40%
Shea Butter 5% ~ for luxury and moisturization
Castor Oil 3% ~ humectant and lather booster

TWEAK 2 (to reduce cost of Olive oil)
Olive 20%
Rice Bran 10% (or Sunflower, Safflower, Almond, Avocado, etc)
Coconut or PKO 22%
Palm, Lard or Shortening 40%
Shea Butter 5% (or Cocoa Butter, Mango Butter, etc.)
Castor Oil 3%

NOTE: Shea Butter and other “luxury” oils &  butters ... at 5% you WILL notice the difference in the bar, it keeps the cost per bar still within a reasonable profit margin for resale, and gives you a GREAT ‘adjustable’ formula to tailor to your own formula creations.

Just be sure to run any and all changes through a *lye calculator*.


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 29, 2019)

Bumping this for Noobs.


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## LilyJo (Apr 30, 2019)

Any ideas for a basic recipe without palm or lard?

Have stopped making soap for a while with frustration at not having a recipe that consistently works, isnt drying and doesnt use palm or lard - I have a few recipes but tbh whilst they are all good soaps, they are not amazing!


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 30, 2019)

LilyJo said:


> Any ideas for a basic recipe without palm or lard?


Not sure if you have a shortening like Crisco in the UK, but that's a good alternative. Makes creamy lather.


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## atiz (Apr 30, 2019)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Not sure if you have a shortening like Crisco in the UK, but that's a good alternative. Makes creamy lather.


Doesn't Crisco have palm in it?
There was a recent thread about palm free vegan here.


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## cmzaha (Apr 30, 2019)

The Crisco available here is Soybean & Palm. While I love palm in soap I am not a fan of soybean and I will also add I hate the Basic Trinity recipe, but I dislike OO in soap.


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## earlene (Apr 30, 2019)

LilyJo said:


> Any ideas for a basic recipe without palm or lard?
> 
> Have stopped making soap for a while with frustration at not having a recipe that consistently works, isnt drying and doesnt use palm or lard - I have a few recipes but tbh whilst they are all good soaps, they are not amazing!



Check out the link atiz posted above for other palm-free vegan recipes.  Also there are numerous palm-free & animal-free recipes around the web if you do a search.  That's where I started when I was new.  It's okay to tweak any recipe you find here or online, as long as you run all changes through a lye calculator to get the correct amount of lye for your recipes.

Here are a few links to palm-free recipes:
http://www.soaprecipes101.com/homemade-soap-recipes/palm-free-soap-recipes/
https://www.lovinsoap.com/2012/06/palm-free-recipes-day-1/
https://www.millersoap.com/soapallveg.html
https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/tutorial-vegan-milk-and-honey-soap/  (all vegan recipe)
https://thenerdyfarmwife.com/how-to-make-any-soap-recipe-palm-free/  (how to alter a palm recipe to be palm-free)
https://www.soapqueen.com/tag/palm-free/  (palm oil alternatives - not actual recipes)


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## IrishLass (Apr 30, 2019)

LilyJo said:


> Any ideas for a basic recipe without palm or lard?
> 
> Have stopped making soap for a while with frustration at not having a recipe that consistently works, isnt drying and doesnt use palm or lard - I have a few recipes but tbh whilst they are all good soaps, they are not amazing!



While fiddling around on SoapCalc one day a few years ago, I was able to come up with a unique combination of specific veggie butters and oils whose combined fatty acid profile was so close to palm oil's fatty acid profile that it could in theory be used as a substitute:   

Shea butter 45.5% / Cocoa Butter 43% / Sunflower Oil 10% / Coconut Oil 1.5%

So, let's say you wanted to make 2 lbs of the Basic Trinity soap that Zany listed at the very top of her list, but would like to substitute the unique butter/oil combo for the palm:

First, type the Basic Trinity recipe into SoapCalc and set the oil weight box for 2 lbs. Hit calculate and then view print. Your oil amounts should look like this on page 2:

Olive oil................... 11.20 oz/317.51 g
Coconut Oil............. 8 oz/226.8 g
Palm oil................... 12.8 oz/362.87 g 

Copy those amounts down somewhere.

Next, hit the reset/clear button on the first page and change the oil weight box to 12.8 oz or 362.87 g (the palm oil amount), then go to the 'recipe oil list' part of the page, click on the % circle, then type in these oils and %'s:

Shea butter 45.5%
Cocoa Butter 43%
Sunflower Oil 10%
Coconut Oil 1.5%

Hit calculate and view/print recipe. On page 2 it should give you these amounts:

5.82 oz/165.11 g Shea Butter
5.50 oz/156.04 g Cocoa butter   
1.28 oz/36.29 g Sunflower oil
.19 oz/5.44 g Coconut oil

That's how much of each butter/oil to use for the combo to be able to sub for the palm amount.

Now, go back to page 1 and click on the oz or gram circle above the 'recipe oil list' section, and then click on olive oil and add in the 
11.20 oz or 317.51 g amount for olive oil to the list, and then add 8 0z or 226.8 grams to the .19 oz/5.44 g coconut oil amount that's already there as part of the palm substitute.

This is what things should look like:








And below is what the recipe looks like with palm instead: Look at the fatty acid profiles and compare to the one above without palm. Yes- the individual palm and stearic numbers do not match up, but these two fatty acids act so similar to each other that they are virtually the same in my book where soap is concerned. Their combined total is 28 in the palm sub recipe and 29 in the palm recipe......only 1 point difference from each other, which is way too little to make any discernible difference in the finished soap.









IrishLass


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 30, 2019)

> Irish Lass wrote: And below is what the recipe looks like with palm instead:


Excellent analysis and information, as always, Irish!  
Too bad it's getting buried in this thread.  
I don't mean to sound nasty. Not at all; I'm just sayin'...


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## LilyJo (May 1, 2019)

IrishLass said:


> While fiddling around on SoapCalc one day a few years ago, I was able to come up with a unique combination of specific veggie butters and oils whose combined fatty acid profile was so close to palm oil's fatty acid profile that it could in theory be used as a substitute:
> 
> Shea butter 45.5% / Cocoa Butter 43% / Sunflower Oil 10% / Coconut Oil 1.5%
> 
> ...





I think I love you!!!  Thank you so much for a fabulous post, so much really useful info, have always wondered what a combined sub would do.  

Thats my bank holiday soap making planned out!


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## Zany_in_CO (Nov 16, 2020)

IrishLass said:


> While fiddling around on SoapCalc one day a few years ago, I was able to come up with a unique combination of specific veggie butters and oils whose combined fatty acid profile was so close to palm oil's fatty acid profile that it could in theory be used as a substitute:
> 
> Shea butter 45.5% / Cocoa Butter 43% / Sunflower Oil 10% / Coconut Oil 1.5%


 I'm getting ready to make the Basic Trinity but I'm out of palm.  Came on here to see if anyone had tried it with a palm sub. I'm so happy to see this! Thank you for all your hard work, * @IrishLass* . You just made my day!


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## Corsara (Mar 15, 2021)

What would be a basic trinity tweak that would add a significant amount of tallow to the recipe? (I hope this thread isn't too old to resurrect )


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## jcandleattic (Mar 15, 2021)

Corsara said:


> What would be a basic trinity tweak that would add a significant amount of tallow to the recipe? (I hope this thread isn't too old to resurrect )


Substitute the Palm oil with tallow.


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## Corsara (Mar 15, 2021)

jcandleattic said:


> Substitute the Palm oil with tallow.


Thanks!


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 30, 2021)

See recipe for Basic Trinity of Oils attached.


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## Johnez (Apr 14, 2021)

Hey @Zany_in_CO , I have have all the ingredients and can't wait to try the first recipe. My question is I found some HO canola oil and am wondering if I can incorporate Canola oil in place of OO for a tweak in the future.

At, scratch that apparently I did the calculation wrong and the canola is mid-oleic. Dope! Another lesson learned.


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## stephswan (Apr 14, 2021)

what a great post! thank you for bumping it up for the n00bs!


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 15, 2021)

Johnez said:


> Hey @Zany_in_CO , I have have all the ingredients and can't wait to try the first recipe. My question is I found some HO canola oil and am wondering if I can incorporate Canola oil in place of OO for a tweak in the future.


Actually that's what the Basic Trinity is all about. Once you get a feel for the 3 legs as is, you can sub any liquid vegie oil of your choice for OO; any hard, lathering oil for the Coconut (limited choices are PKO or Babassu); any solid-at-room-temp oil/fat for the palm (lard, tallow, shortening, Crisco, Soybean, shea butter, etc.)

I will say this though, the Basic recipe, using the Default Settings on *SoapCalc*, is one of the nicest bars you are likely to experience. It reminds me of triple-milled French soaps with an elegant feel. Hard to beat, IMO.


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## Johnez (Apr 16, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Actually that's what the Basic Trinity is all about. Once you get a feel for the 3 legs as is, you can sub any liquid vegie oil of your choice for OO; any hard, lathering oil for the Coconut (limited choices are PKO or Babassu); any solid-at-room-temp oil/fat for the palm (lard, tallow, shortening, Crisco, Soybean, shea butter, etc.)
> 
> I will say this though, the Basic recipe, using the Default Settings on *SoapCalc*, is one of the nicest bars you are likely to experience. It reminds me of triple-milled French soaps with an elegant feel. Hard to beat, IMO.


Aw man this sounds good Zany, I don't know if I can wait till the weekend....I might even do this on a work night haha!

I will bug you one more time about this recipe to ask you if A) there needs to be any special consideration if I HP this recipe, and B) should I keep water as a percent of oils at 38% (default in soapcalc)? I will try to convert myself to the seemingly more standard lye concentration or water:lye ratio since I've read that's the better way to view recipes.


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 16, 2021)

Johnez said:


> A) there needs to be any special consideration if I HP this recipe, and
> B) should I keep water as a percent of oils at 38% (default in soapcalc)?


A & B  For HP, *water as a percent of oils* at 38% is so-called "full water". To my mind at least, HP needs this because of the amount of water loss during the cook. But I'm not the best person to ask. I prefer CP. It's easier with less fiddling. I like the smooth pour and the finished look I get vs the "rustic" look of HP, plus there's the "plop and glop" aspect of the pour that challenges me. 


Johnez said:


> I will try to convert myself to the seemingly more standard lye concentration or water:lye ratio since I've read that's the better way to view recipes.


Good thinking. It's best to decide for yourself and have a reason to convert.
Using "*Lye concentration*" is popular on SMF. 30-33% is common. If you haven't already been advised to switch, it's bound to happen sooner or later. The idea of "discounting water" came along mid-career for me. To be honest, there are few soaps that are better with it. I have only one formula where I use 32% lye concentration.
"*Water:lye ratio*" comes in handy for making *Liquid Soap. 3:1 ratio* is ideal in most cases. You type it in. I also use it for making _*ZNSC*._
Other than that, I'm currently using 38% water as a percent of oils and 0% SF (to fully saponify all the oils) and liking it.

The other consideration in HP is SF (% of super fat aka "lye discount"). That's a matter of preference but HP'ers generally *add SF oil and fragrance at the end* (when the batch is fully saponified) to spare them from going through the lye process.


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## Johnez (Apr 17, 2021)

Excellent stuff as always @Zany_in_CO , I've taken the info and am 2/3 of the way into my first batch of the Basic Trinity-first recipe with zero changes (except EOs added). I must say so far this has been a delightful soap to create compared to my first one. The slower tracing and steps in between (separation, applesauce, puffing) have all been manageable. I'll play with specifically superfatting in the next batch, that should be fun. 

Well, I did it. I made a bar of soap big enough for my hands!

Going to cut it tomorrow and let it cure.

Ok, couldn't wait to cut. Showing only the pretty sides. I learned another lesson-slab molds might be best left for cold process pours being I have a rough side.


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## earlene (Apr 18, 2021)

Well that's surely a manly sized bar!


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 18, 2021)

Johnez said:


> Well, I did it. I made a bar of soap big enough for my hands!
> Going to cut it tomorrow and let it cure.








Johnez said:


> Ok, couldn't wait to cut.







TIP: Compare oils side by side using *SoapCalc*.
First, enter 100% Olive Oil and tick Calculate. Look at the Left Menu. The OO Fatty Acid numbers are displayed in the right column under "*All*".

Go down the list of oils and select the oil you want to sub for the OO. Those numbers are displayed in the left column under "*One*". Go down the list and select another oil to compare one at a time. For example, select Canola oil for comparison. Then HO Canola, Almond, Corn, Grapeseed, Peanut, Rice Bran, Sunflower, HO Sunflower, etc.





This tip is especially useful when you run out of an oil during the weighing and need a sub. That's how I learned lard is a good sub for shea butter and vice versa.  

HAPPY SOAPING!


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## Fenchurch (Apr 18, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> TIP: Compare oils side by side using *SoapCalc*.
> First, enter 100% Olive Oil and tick Calculate. Look at the Left Menu. The OO Fatty Acid numbers are displayed in the right column under "*All*".
> 
> Go down the list of oils and select the oil you want to sub for the OO. Those numbers are displayed in the left column under "*One*". Go down the list and select another oil to compare one at a time.


I'm happy I was already using this tip!
Thanks, it helps checking whether I'm doing right or not!

Happy Bubbles to all of you,
Stéphanie


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## Zany_in_CO (Apr 18, 2021)

Fenchurch said:


> I'm happy I was already using this tip!


 Stephanie, you are sounding less and less like "a beginner" every time you post! I bet you discovered that tip all by yourself, yes? Good for you!


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## pjj (Jun 11, 2022)

Zany_in_CO said:


> A balanced bar starts with the Basic Trinity of Soapmaking Oils:
> 
> BASIC TRINITY OF OILS STARTER  FORMULA
> 
> ...


5-6 kinds of oils are hard to find, hard to store long term [for me] oil flakes ? i do not know how to take % and convert them to weight, ounces, but appreciate your time

i guess that after 50 yrs,i am NOT a real soap maker, just a one trick pony


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 11, 2022)

pjj said:


> i guess that after 50 yrs,i am NOT a real soap maker, just a one trick pony


It may surprise you to learn that I made my first soap in 2003 at age 60! I'm basically self-taught from books I got at the library. I made CP (cold process), HP (hot process) and transparent soap (before I knew any better).

To this day, most of my soaps contain lard/tallow, the 3 basic oils or variations of those oils once I understood what I can  sub for the Coconut, Palm and Olive in the *Basic Trinity of Oils*. My *Zany's No Slime Castile* can be made with a single oil, olive oil, or a variation thereof although, for personal use, I use 85% OO, 10% coconut and 5% castor.

I didn't join a forum until 2004 where I was able to share my experience with others. I also had excellent mentors that helped me along my soapmaking journey of 19 years to date. I also joined the Liquid Soapmakers Yahoo Group (now defunct) where I participated for 10 years before the arrival of FaceBook which was the death of many good forums and groups.

It's totally up to you if you fall off that one-trick pony whether you pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get on with your journey or not. We're here to help.


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## pjj (Jun 12, 2022)

Zany_in_CO said:


> It may surprise you to learn that I made my first soap in 2003 at age 60! I'm basically self-taught from books I got at the library. I made CP (cold process), HP (hot process) and transparent soap (before I knew any better).
> 
> To this day, most of my soaps contain lard/tallow, the 3 basic oils or variations of those oils once I understood what I can  sub for the Coconut, Palm and Olive in the *Basic Trinity of Oils*. My *Zany's No Slime Castile* can be made with a single oil, olive oil, or a variation thereof although, for personal use, I use 85% OO, 10% coconut and 5% castor.
> 
> ...


despite watching several U Tube video's, my old brain is unable to figure out how the soap calculators work, or rather how i can use them, they just say to add random numbers to calculator, and still no recipe at the end. how do i weigh or measure a percentage/% ?!! it makes me feel so stupid !


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## Vicki C (Jun 12, 2022)

pjj said:


> despite watching several U Tube video's, my old brain is unable to figure out how the soap calculators work, or rather how i can use them, they just say to add random numbers to calculator, and still no recipe at the end. how do i weigh or measure a percentage/% ?!! it makes me feel so stupid !


Hmm. You’re not stupid. But it does sound like you’re getting frustrated! 
On soap calc, when you click “calculate recipe”, the recipe opens in a new screen, which isn’t obvious.
You mentioned that you have watched several youtube videos. May I suggest trying a video of Holly from holly’s soapmaking (aka Kapia Mera) - she includes a demonstration at the end of several of her videos of how she uses soap calc, and she has such a gentle, soothing voice and style. Here’s a recent video.


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## artemis (Jun 12, 2022)

pjj said:


> how do i weigh or measure a percentage/% ?!! it makes me feel so stupid !


After you enter your percentages, you should get a recipe in grams or ounces. Maybe you just need to try a different calculator. Some are more straightforward than others, in my opinion. Try: 
1) Soapee Soapee Next 
2) Soapmaking Friend Soapmaking Recipe Software & Lye Calculator


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## dibbles (Jun 12, 2022)

@pjj You need to know the total weight of oils in your batch to begin. If you don't know that from your written recipe, you can figure it out by multiplying the length of your mold (in inches) by the width of your mold (in inches) by the height of your mold (or how tall you want your soap bars to be). Multiply this number by .4. For example, I have a mold that is 9" long by 3.5" wide by 2.5" tall. I want to fill it completely, so 9 x 3.5 x 2.5 = 78.75. 78.75 x .4 = 31.5.

Looking at Soap-Calc:


In Section 1 'Type of Lye' - NaOH is selected by default. You are making bar soap, so leave this as is
In Section 2 'Weight of Oils' - pounds is selected by default. Change this to either ounces or grams (whichever you are more comfortable with - the calculator will give you a recipe with both). Change the default amount to the weight of oils you have calculated for your mold, or what you know from your original recipe.
In Section 3 'Water' - change the setting from the default 'water as % of oils' to either of the other two settings. For this example, try using 'lye concentration'. Enter a value from 30 to 33.
In Section 4 it is fine to leave the superfat at 5% and the fragrance amount is dependent on the safe usage rate.

You will now have something that looks similar to this:



Section 5 is where you will find the oil properties.
Section 6 is where you enter the oils you want to use and choose an amount (%) for each one


As an example you might end up with something like this


Below your list of oils you will see Section 7 (1) - Calculate Recipe. Click on that box and the calculator will fill in the amount of each oil you need in ounces (or grams if that was the value you chose).


You will also see that Section 7 (2) - 'View or Print Recipe' is now an option. Select that and a new window will be available. There will be a new tab at the top of your screen. Select that tab


Here you can enter a name/date for your recipe and notes for any additives, etc. The recipe is calculated in pounds, ounces and grams, and the correct water and lye amounts are provided. There is an option to print your recipe in the top right corner.

Learning to use a soap.calculator can be a little confusing, but it is an important skill to have and worth the effort. Keep asking if you have questions. You aren't alone in feeling overwhelmed by this - lots of us have been there.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 12, 2022)

@dibbles Good job! Thank you for taking the time to explain *SoapCalc*. It is more universally used than any other calculator available and best for Newbies, IMO.

However, there are a few missing points...



dibbles said:


> In Section 2 'Weight of Oils' - pounds is selected by default. *Change this to either pounds or grams (whichever you are more comfortable wit*h - the calculator will give you a recipe with both).


There are 3 options.  You can select *ounces* as well



dibbles said:


> In Section 3 'Water' - change the setting from the default 'water as % of oils' to either of the other two settings. For this example, try using 'lye concentration'. Enter a value from 30 to 33.


FWIW For Newbies, it's best to start with the Default Setting of  *38% water as % of oils* until you become familiar with discounting water and how that effects the results. There's nothing wrong with trying *Lye Concentration* or *Water to Lye Ratio* but those are best left to experienced soapers who understand what they're doing when they tick those options.



dibbles said:


> Section 6 is where you enter the oils you want to use and choose an amount (%) for each one


For *Ounces*, choose the button above "*OZ*" and enter the amounts. Once entered, click "CALCULATE" and it will give you the total amount of oils in the recipe as well as the % of each oil. Cool, eh?


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## dibbles (Jun 12, 2022)

Zany_in_CO said:


> There are 3 options. You can select *ounces* as well


Good catch - I purposely wanted to leave out pounds and meant to say ounces instead. I have amended my post.


Zany_in_CO said:


> FWIW For Newbies, it's best to start with the Default Setting of *38% water as % of oils* until you become familiar with discounting water and how that effects the results.


I have to disagree here. I started using 38% water as % of oils and, as a newbie had problems with soap that was too soft (not knowing why) and glycerin rivers (not knowing why). I think 30% lye concentration is plenty user friendly, and up to 33% will give a good amount of working time for those who are learning. It's good to know why water is discounted, but as a starting point knowing that would have made no difference to me. It (the default setting) was just a starting point. It seems that most people aren't happy using the 38% water as % of oils default and change it, why not start using lye concentration from the beginning. I agree that for water discounting above about 33% lye concentration some soap making experience and understanding why you are doing this is best.

From my own experience, starting with the default water setting on Soap.Calc made me very timid about discounting the water at all.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 12, 2022)

pjj said:


> despite watching several U Tube video's, my old brain is unable to figure out how the soap calculators work, or rather how i can use them,


First of all, forget all you've learned on U Tube until you are able to tell the good ones from the not-so-good ones. They are not all the same and there are a lot of them that have more bad than good into. Fun to watch for inspiration but that's about it.


pjj said:


> they just say to add random numbers to calculator, and still no recipe at the end. how do i weigh or measure a percentage/% ?!! it makes me feel so stupid !


I know the feeling! Since I am both math challenged and my cognitive reasoning isn't as good as it once was when I was younger, I am grateful for SoapCalc. It is my #1 go-to helper in my soapmakers tool box. 

TIP: When I first started using it, I entered all the Tried & True recipes I wanted to make. I entered the *ounces* and after doing the *calculation*, once I had the *%s of each oil,* I would tick on the *% button*, enter 16 oz or 500 grams in *#2 Weight of Oils* and resize the batch to make smaller batches.  

I was the same age then as you are now when I first started using SoapCalc.  I spent HOURS learning to use it over a period of 2 weeks until I was comfortable using it. Granted, I didn't have brain injuries to contend with, but when I first saw it, it was intimidating!  With a "CAN DO" attitude I proceeded at my own pace. 

The thought that kept me going was _"Nothing ventured, nothing gained."_


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## Quilter99755 (Jun 12, 2022)

I'm not sure exactly how old I was when I started soaping, but definitely in my 60's. I made soap with a friend who gave me her recipes. I couldn't understand recipes that used percentages at all. Then at some point I found this site and ventured into using the soap calculator. The very first recipe that I created myself was in 2017 when I was 75. 

It looks like you have some instructions and a good video to guide you in another part of your soaping journey. I know I spent hours just playing with various oils and sizes of molds just to get totally familiar with the soap calc. I do prefer the one from Soapmaking Friend and I'm not sure why. I'm not as adventurous as I used to be...I've found a few recipes that work fine for me and my family so haven't tried anything new in quite a while.  But from this forum I found that olive oil does not like me, low coconut oil is better for my aging skin and I like lard and tallow batter than palm.  Don't feel stupid, ask questions and there is an abundance of help at your fingertips.
Good luck in your endeavors


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## BadPanda74 (Jul 1, 2022)

LilyJo said:


> Any ideas for a basic recipe without palm or lard?
> 
> Have stopped making soap for a while with frustration at not having a recipe that consistently works, isnt drying and doesnt use palm or lard - I have a few recipes but tbh whilst they are all good soaps, they are not amazing!


Anything is better than Dial or Ivory. Just sayin.


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## MsTigress02 (Oct 14, 2022)

Zany_in_CO said:


> A balanced bar starts with the Basic Trinity of Soapmaking Oils:
> 
> BASIC TRINITY OF OILS STARTER  FORMULA
> 
> ...


Bumping


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