# FO instead of EO?



## RobinHoodFan (May 21, 2012)

Still very new to soapmaking and just ordered stuff for my first batch...I just received my first two EOs in the mail and they're very strong! Woah....plus they're tiny and i hope i have enough to make my first batch!  And not to mention EXPENSIVE (luckily i used birthday money but it's not always going to be that way)...anyway...so  i've been sticking with searching for EO's because of their "natural-ness" and that they are all safe to use in soap-making so i dont really have to worry. I read in many places that some FO's are not. So I didn't want to risk it. How do I know if a FO is ok to use in soap?

What do most of you use in your soaps..FO or EO? Do more people want soaps with EO's since it's natural? I just feel like there's so much more variety with FO's not to mention the better price. Is one better, more stable in soapmaking than the other? 

I was looking at the wellington website and it does seem that all their FO's are safe for soap yes? Are there some there that arent that I should be careful of? Anyone order FO's from this site and safely make soap with them?

Personally, I use handmade soap in the shower and love when the scent is still left on my skin once I'm dry.  Now, if i do really like soapmaking, i know I'm going to have more soap than I know what to do with and would like to sell it as well...so I'd like to find a safe medium to use here.

Any suggestions?


----------



## VanessaP (May 21, 2012)

The safety of whether or not a FO is skin safe depends on the vendor. Even the same scent at one vendor can be skin safe and NOT skin safe at another. 

Personally, I use FO because the cost of EOs are so high for so many of them and I seriously SUCK at trying to come up with scent combinations on my own so I like to purchase FOs where the blend is already done for me  The only EOs I own right now are Spearmint (I love it!), Tea Tree, and I think Ginger.

I believe that generally speaking, you can use about half the amount of EO that you use of FO to get the same strength scent. However, there are various EOs that aren't safe, and then there are the ones that aren't safe if you're pregnant, etc.

I'm hoping to start selling early next year when I've had pretty much my full year of watching for DOS, scent fading/morphing, warping, etc. One thing to keep in mind if you're going to eventually sell is that just because you enjoy a strong leftover scent on your skin, a lot of people may not. Unscented is popular as well - I have to make up another batch of unscented with coconut milk for my mother when I get back from vacation 

For vendors, I've never even heard of Wellington until the last couple of days. I use Bramble Berry, Elements Bath & Body and Wholesale Supplies Plus. When I go to restock a few scents, I'm going to try Nature's Garden, Sweet Cakes or Oregon Trails so I can compare, then once THOSE are gone, I'll make a decision on which vendor to use for which scent.


----------



## new12soap (May 21, 2012)

Ditto what Vanessa said

Any online FO supplier should indicate somewhere whether the product is bath and body safe.

EO's are very tiny but you use a lot less as I understand it. Also, EO's can be VERY strong and cause skin irritations in too high a concentration (as can FO's), so be careful.

Don't get too caught up in "natural", poison ivy is completely natural but I don't care for it on my skin! In other words "natural" does not necessarily mean "good".

JM2C   

Oh, I use FO's and so far Peak's Candle Supply is my favorite (they are the ones I have the most with, but others are very good, too), and MMS. You can specifically click on B&B FO's at Peak, so that helps.


----------



## Genny (May 21, 2012)

All EO's are not safe to use in soap or in topical applications.  If you are truly interested in using EO's I'd recommend reading a couple good aromatherapy books.

FO's that are considered skin-safe have been formulated to less likely be a dermal irritant. That's why I use only fo's for scent in my products that I sell.  I do use EO's that I know are skin safe in products for myself and family members, though.

Also, with EO's, most of them tend to fade in soap making and some never survive saponification. 
As far as them being more natural, I don't know about that since there are some eo's that can ony be extracted by using solvents.

The supplier of your fo should state on there if your fo is safe to use in soap.  

Really good suppliers will also let you know on their site how each fo reacts in soap making.   
Personally I'm not a big fan of Wellington because if your order is below their $50 minimum, they have a $5 service fee.  Also, I don't really like how their fo size goes from 1/2 oz, then the next lowest is 8 oz.


----------



## IrishLass (May 21, 2012)

As the others have said, don't get too caught up in the 'naturalness' of EOs. They are active medicinals and need to be used with care because many can cause irritation, and some can cause UV senstivity in skin. While it's safe to use a small handful of them directly on the skin (like lavender, for instance), others are _not_ safe to be used on the skin, while others can be used if properly diluted down first. One should really know their EOs and the reliability of their EO suppliers/manufactureres before using them. That's because EOs are not regulated (at least here in the US). It's best to ask around and find a reputable supplier before buying. I'm not trying to scare you off on using them or anything, but know your stuff and buyer beware. 

I use FOs in my soap because they are regulated and have been safety tested for the medium in which I use them. 


IrishLass


----------



## RobinHoodFan (May 21, 2012)

Thanks everyone! Lots of good tips here! I think I'll try FO's after all   After spending some time on the wellington site, they do have a great description and FAQ section that all of their FOs are safe for soap..and that the premium grade is the best bet.  I agree with the size jump thing..kinda sucks but I guess its still cheaper to buy a bunch of 1/2 oz than sticking with pricey EO's!

The only reason I ordered this many EO's was b/c i used my birthday money. Hoping for cheaper alternitive in the future and i really like some of the potential of the FO's they have on welmington.

So far I only have 1oz (30ml) of 100% Vanilla EO and 5ml (like a tsp) of100% Cocoa Absolute EO (fyi...does not smell like cocolate...it's BITTTERRRRR...wheeww..I'm assuming a little will go a long way with that one).  I think those are ok health wise anyway.  and BTW That order alone cost like $32!!!  Oy! Thats why I wanna try and cut some costs in the future.

I also ordered Ylang Ylang in a separate order which hasn't come yet. The reason I got that one too was cuz i needed something to hit super saver shipping and i keep seeing everyone rave about the scent..so what the heck..I grabbed one.  I'm also wilting some peony petals and rose petals now to infuse my own oil...which i heard is not very strong and may not make the saponification process BUT I figured it couldn't hurt to try


----------



## Lilahblossom (May 22, 2012)

Genny is right about the EOs. And notice some of the FOs even can cause photosensitivity. Which is a bummer cause I think orange and citrus are great in the summer but I'm not putting them in my soap for the summer. Some EOs like peppermint and cinnamon have to be used cautiously. You have to read up on them and treat them with respect. Ylang Ylang is my favorite next to rose. I use it in my own spray on deodorant. I did use it for a few bars for Mother's day along with my precious rose absolute. But otherwise it's only for my own use. I'm not selling any yet as I have to get my system down and finish applying for permits.


----------



## RobinHoodFan (May 22, 2012)

Lilahblossom said:
			
		

> Genny is right about the EOs. And notice some of the FOs even can cause photosensitivity. Which is a bummer cause I think orange and citrus are great in the summer but I'm not putting them in my soap for the summer. Some EOs like peppermint and cinnamon have to be used cautiously. You have to read up on them and treat them with respect. Ylang Ylang is my favorite next to rose. I use it in my own spray on deodorant. I did use it for a few bars for Mother's day along with my precious rose absolute. But otherwise it's only for my own use. I'm not selling any yet as I have to get my system down and finish applying for permits.



What's photosensitivity?

Yea i dont think i'd sell unless i really get into it...solely for the purpose of the handmade aspect of it. Would at least need to incorporate first which i should be doing soon anyway as an LLC.

Anyway, thanks for the info! I currently have some roses and peonies infusing in oil since last night...they sure don't smell anything like the flower anymore...does the rose EO smell good out of the bottle or is it just one of those things that need to saponify to really appreciate? I'm so new to this..and again just smelled EOs frot he first time yesterday when I got my Vanilla and Cocoa in the mail (and the cocoa smells nothing like chocoloate)..so it's all quite confusing.


----------



## Suisan2 (May 22, 2012)

Photosensitivity is also known as "sun allergy". Medicines can cause it too. Basically, you can get rashes after sun exposure if you are suffering from photosensitivity. Sometimes they itch, sometimes not, but they can be really uncomfortable and unsightly.


----------



## RobinHoodFan (May 22, 2012)

Suisan2 said:
			
		

> Photosensitivity is also known as "sun allergy". Medicines can cause it too. Basically, you can get rashes after sun exposure if you are suffering from photosensitivity. Sometimes they itch, sometimes not, but they can be really uncomfortable and unsightly.



Oh!


----------



## RobinHoodFan (May 22, 2012)

Oh hey..just thought of something...

Can you mix FO and EO's? Like if i were to make a batch of soap can I use both FO and EO to scent it or will it cause some sort of bad reaction?


----------



## Genny (May 22, 2012)

RobinHoodFan said:
			
		

> What's photosensitivity?


Photosensitivity means that you get a sunburn easier.  Most citrus eo's are phototoxic, which means that when the eo's are exposed to sunlight, the compounds become toxic and makes our skin more susceptible to damage from light/sun.



			
				RobinHoodFan said:
			
		

> I'm so new to this..and again just smelled EOs frot he first time yesterday when I got my Vanilla and Cocoa in the mail (and the cocoa smells nothing like chocoloate)..so it's all quite confusing.



Any cacao absolute that I've tried has always smelled like the dark baking chocolate that tastes really bitter.


----------



## Genny (May 22, 2012)

You can mix fo's and eo's in your soap.


----------



## RobinHoodFan (May 22, 2012)

Genny said:
			
		

> Photosensitivity means that you get a sunburn easier.  Most citrus eo's are phototoxic, which means that when the eo's are exposed to sunlight, the compounds become toxic and makes our skin more susceptible to damage from light/sun.


Gah! Thats not good...does that happen with FO's too? 




			
				Genny said:
			
		

> Any cacao absolute that I've tried has always smelled like the dark baking chocolate that tastes really bitter.


Yup! You nailed it! Thats exactly what i thought when i took a whiff! Have you tried it in soap? Does it translate well?


----------



## Genny (May 22, 2012)

RobinHoodFan said:
			
		

> Gah! Thats not good...does that happen with FO's too?


I was told by a couple suppliers that no they don't because in the end FO, the level of  Furanocoumarin (which causes the photosensitivity) is very minute and most of the time, nonexistent.



			
				RobinHoodFan said:
			
		

> Yup! You nailed it! Thats exactly what i thought when i took a whiff! Have you tried it in soap? Does it translate well?


I honestly don't know because I've only used it in soap that I also use cocoa butter in and cocoa powder for coloring.  So in the end, my soap's pretty chocolatey.


----------



## RobinHoodFan (May 22, 2012)

> I honestly don't know because I've only used it in soap that I also use cocoa butter in and cocoa powder for coloring.  So in the end, my soap's pretty chocolatey.



I was considering melted unsweetend chocolate to my batch. But when do you add it? Do you add it to the melted oils or do you add it around  the same time that you add the fragrance (after adding the lye solution)? Does the same go for the cocoa powder?


----------



## Genny (May 22, 2012)

I've only added my melted chocolate to the oils.

As for cocoa, I've added that to the oils and it works good that way. Or when I want to use the cocoa for a swirling color, I add it at trace.


----------



## RobinHoodFan (May 22, 2012)

Genny said:
			
		

> I've only added my melted chocolate to the oils.
> 
> As for cocoa, I've added that to the oils and it works good that way. Or when I want to use the cocoa for a swirling color, I add it at trace.


Ok cool..i wasn't sure if it was different with powder v.s melted chocolate.  I've heard that its easy to have problems with powder if it's not mixed well...but that could have been something else..not cocoa


----------

