# What do you use to mix your Lye and Water?



## Lin19687 (Jan 27, 2018)

I am in need of a new bowl.  The one I have is not good and just noticed flakes 

What do most of you use for a larger batch ?
Something that would hold 2-4# of water?
I like to use bigger so I don't have spillage.

So far I have only use 2# of water for a lye mix, about a 84 oz oil recipe.

Thanks

I see from another older thread that #5 plastic is better.  Not sure why it didn't come in my search, obviously it is operator error :headbanging:


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## Obsidian (Jan 27, 2018)

What about a smaller food safe plastic bucket? The deli at our grocery store has them in all different sizes, they sell empties for a few bucks.


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## Lin19687 (Jan 27, 2018)

I did a better search, looks like Plastic #5 is what people are using ?


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## DeeAnna (Jan 27, 2018)

Recycle code 2, high density polypropylene, HDPE, or recycle code 5, polyproplylene, PP, are the most desirable. Both are suitable for hot and room temperature lye solution. Also choose as thick and heavy a container as you can find -- you want sturdiness as well as chemical resistance. 

Recycle code 4, low density polypropylene, LDPE, is a distant third. It is best only for storage of room temperature lye solution. I don't recommend anything else.

See: https://classicbells.com/soap/lyeStorage.html


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## Kittish (Jan 27, 2018)

You can get buckets in #2 or #5 plastic from Home Depot and Wal-Mart, if you only want a couple of them. I know my local Home Depot has them in sizes from about half a gallon all the way up to 5 gallons. If you want more, you might look at places like U-Line and restaurant and bakery supply places. 

Personally, I use a stainless steel milk frothing pitcher, but even a 60 oz capacity is probably too small for the kind of batch sizes you're talking about.


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## earlene (Jan 27, 2018)

I use pitchers that I buy either at Walmart or a Dollar type store or even at Goodwill or other second hand stores.  I have 3 or 4 that I bought for this purpose, of varying sizes.  Which size I use depends on the amount needed for a particular recipe.  The larger ones are recycle code #5 PP, and I have a couple smaller ones that are #2 HDPE.  I also bought a stainless steel pitcher for this purpose, but have not used it yet.

For my masterbatch lye, I use the largest one with a #5 PP recycle code,  After mixing the mastervbatch lye solution and it cools down, I later pour it into bottles that Essential Depot lye comes in and those are #2 HDPE.  That's one reason I really like to buy lye from ED, is for the bottles.  They are already labeled and it makes for a good size to lift and pour my masterbatch lye from.  I have a bigger gallon jug I was going to use, but as an old lady with less strength than in my youth, I don't really want to be lifting and pouring 7 pounds of lye solution.  A couple of years ago  I dropped a 5 gallon jug of water when trying to replace it onto a water dispenser and the clean up was quite a big deal, and that was only water!  Evidence to me that my super human mom-strength is waning with age.


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## Susie (Jan 27, 2018)

I use a 64 oz bain marie from a restaurant supply store.  It is stainless steel, tall and not too big around.  It is an awesome container to mix large masterbatches of lye in.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jan 27, 2018)

earlene said:


> Evidence to me that my super human mom-strength is waning with age.


Me too, Earlene! I had to give up my wooden mold for 90 oz oils batch. Switched to 60-65 oz. oils mold, which I still use, but four silicone molds (WSP 1501) that hold 30 oz oils each are quickly becoming my go-to molds. I really like them.

As for mixing lye, I used #2 and #5 HDPE (re-purposed NaOH /KOH containers) for a while until one container totally degraded into lye that got too hot (!) and the other crumpled under the heat (over 150°F). I'm back to using Pyrex now and I really prefer that I can see whether the NaOH or KOH and any additives like tussah silk or powder colorants) have completely dissolved or not. But that's just me. I'm not suggesting that's what you should use. I'm just sayin...


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## SaltedFig (Jan 27, 2018)

I also like to use stainless for soaping.

It might be a bit more expensive to start with, but it can take the lye, the heat and the knocks.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jan 28, 2018)

SaltedFig said:


> ...It might be a bit more expensive to start with...


Um, not if you prowl the garage sales :mrgreen:  ... I have a cabinet full of Stainless Steel utensils, pots, pans, pitchers, bowls, measuring cups & spoons, etc. of various sizes .. really cheap... I love bargains.


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## BattleGnome (Jan 28, 2018)

I have a gallon sized juice pitcher from Walmart. They’re $1 or less at the end of summer sales and comes with a lid in case you need to wait a while for everything to cool.


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## earlene (Jan 28, 2018)

BattleGnome said:


> I have a gallon sized juice pitcher from Walmart. They’re $1 or less at the end of summer sales and comes with a lid in case you need to wait a while for everything to cool.



Yes, lids are very useful.  I think that's probably why I haven't used the stainless steel pitcher yet.  It doesn't have a lid and all the other one's I use do, except the one I use for small batches.


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## Lin19687 (Jan 29, 2018)

hmmm,  good reports all 

I grabbed a juice pitcher from Big lots.  #5 but the bottom still looks thin to me  .  I have not soaped with it yet.  But did get a 12 qt SS pot for my HP   It is smaller then the other one I have so I like that for smaller recipes 
I mix my Lye outside on the deck, just in case of a spill no one gets hurt.  So if it is too thin I will know fast enough 

I also always mix my lye slowly, about 1/4 at a time and stir stir stir


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## DeeAnna (Jan 29, 2018)

I absolutely understand why stainless steel makes a lot of sense for soaping ... except it's not a perfect panacea. 

Metal contamination is the bane of soap, because it triggers rancidity (DOS, dreaded orange spots). IMO it's best to avoid metal as much as one possibly can when prepping, making, and storing soap. Even though stainless steel is supposed to be chemically inert, I also know it isn't perfectly inert. This is especially true for stainless items sold to retail consumers. Ever seen rust spots on a stainless steel knife or bowl? 

If there is an acceptable plastic soaping utensil, I'll use it over a metal version any day. I can't get entirely away from metal (my stick blender for example), but I minimize it.


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## dixiedragon (Jan 29, 2018)

I like to use a pitcher with a lid.


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## SaltedFig (Jan 29, 2018)

Lower grades of stainless can trigger DOS, or pit, just as DeeAnna said, depending on what filler materials are used in them during manufacture.

A good quality stainless is required for soaping, just as a good quality plastic of the correct type is required (if one is using plastic), or silicone (if one is using silicone). 316 Grade (or 18/10) will work.

Stainless items, even of the best quality, will pit if acids are kept in contact with them.


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## Happy2018 (Jan 29, 2018)

I just bought a tall stainless steel pot with lid from a second had shop, how can I tell if it is the lower grade?  
If it is lower grade, will the DoS show up sooner then later when making soap if it is a lower grade of Stainless?
(some what cursing self for paying to much for it)
I was looking for a tall pot, to help prevent lye splashes.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 29, 2018)

You often cannot tell if you're talking about consumer products made from stainless steel. Some products have markings, but many don't. The best insurance is to buy reputable brands rather than bargain basement no-name stuff. Even secondhand is fine, just look for quality. 

No one is saying rancidity WILL happen from using stainless. What I am saying is there are reasons why I prefer using plastic if there is an acceptable plastic alternative to metal. If I don't, then stainless is my first choice of metal. 

Keep in mind it can be difficult to stir and pour out of an overly tall vessel. As long as your container is sufficiently large and sturdy, you're best insurance against spills and splashes is to be alert to what you're doing and work with care. And wear appropriate safety gear -- at a minimum, chemical splash goggles and gloves.


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## earlene (Jan 30, 2018)

Happy2018 said:


> I just bought a tall stainless steel pot with lid from a second had shop, how can I tell if it is the lower grade?
> If it is lower grade, will the DoS show up sooner then later when making soap if it is a lower grade of Stainless?
> (some what cursing self for paying to much for it)
> I was looking for a tall pot, to help prevent lye splashes.


Here's an interesting article about grades of stainless steel.  I suggest reading the comments as there is some very good information by one of the commenters who goes into detail about the different grades.  VERY GOOD information.

One of our members posted a very good summary of similar information here on the forum sometime within the past couple of years, but I can't find it right now or I would link to it for you.


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## Lin19687 (Jan 31, 2018)

I am glad I started this thread !  I learned even MORE !
TY all


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## Soapmaker123 (Jan 31, 2018)

Hi.  I've used the regular 7-gallon pails (a while ago); they work.  But it's better for me to use a larger tank, to which I've attached a proper spigot.  I support this tank on a trolley which I made from wood, with suitably-strong casters.  This way you can move-things-to-clean-and-mop.


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## earlene (Jan 31, 2018)

That's a pretty cool setup, *Soapmaker123*. How do you do the actually mixing of the lye in a tank that large and so deep?


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## Soapmaker123 (Jan 31, 2018)

You can mix by the full-sack: the water in first, 50-lb sack of lye in second, then trim with additional lye or water to set the exact ratio.

I always wear goggles and an apron.  But when I charge-the-tank also wear a dust mask and a cap (occasionally you'll get a back-splash, from lumps.)

One sack will take the water from cold to about 170 deg. F.


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## Soapmaker123 (Jan 31, 2018)

A part of a production system: the lye tank, the scale, the base-oil tank,


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## earlene (Feb 1, 2018)

Happy2018 said:


> I just bought a tall stainless steel pot with lid from a second had shop, how can I tell if it is the lower grade?





earlene said:


> One of our members posted a very good summary of similar information here on the forum sometime within the past couple of years, but I can't find it right now or I would link to it for you.



*Happy2018*, Google searches are resulting in live links again, so I found this post by *BrewerGeorge* for you that gives some detail about grades of stainless steel:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/is-there-a-test-for-stainless-steel.63938/#post-650639


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## Lin19687 (Feb 1, 2018)

Wow that is BIG !

I am not sure I want to get that big lol, I would never be able to do a batch that big in HP


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## amd (Feb 1, 2018)

I make smallish batches - about 27 oz water - and I use plastic beer pitchers. My step-dad owns a bar and he gets really thick plastic (good for soaping) pitchers for free from the distributors. They are tall so I have plenty of room for sudden volcanoes when I soap with beer etc. They also have a nice sturdy handle for pouring.





(side note: the fact that he gets free pitchers from distributors is funny because he doesn't have tap beer... so why does he need pitchers?)


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## Lin19687 (Feb 2, 2018)

HAHA that is funny about the Tap  

That was what I was looking for , a handle.  Makes it safer I think.

The one I bought was a larger oval shaped one but the bottom looked so thin.
Yesterday I went out and get a pitcher just like the one you pictured there, but a Rubbermaid one.
I have the bigger 4-5 qt rubbermaid one and didn't know they made a 2qt one. So I got that.
Thicker bottom and a handle.

Thanks all


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## elurah (Feb 4, 2018)

Hi! It looks like you already got a lot of great suggestions on what to use. Does the juice pitcher you bought say what type of plastic it is made out of? It's usually at the bottom somewhere. When  I first started, I used a cut out milk jug.  I figured out it was a  lower quality plastic eventually because the bottom became rough and was starting to erode.

Since then, I use Dynalon polypropylene beakers that I really love! They come in all sizes, from 1L to 4+L, they pour like a dream, and they are dishwasher safe. The smaller sizes are also great for separating smaller quantities of soap batter.

Here is a link for a 2L beaker for $14:
http://www.sustainablesupply.com/Dy...MI-ZK_t7S92AIVj1x-Ch2hCQEUEAkYBiABEgLMU_D_BwE

Hope that helps!


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## DeeAnna (Feb 4, 2018)

Soapmaker123 -- 

I'm a chemical process engineer. In looking at your lye solution tank, I would not allow that plastic valve and pipe to stick out in the open like that, especially with the tank on a movable dolly. Someday that pipe is going to hit something, crack or break off, and start leaking. The result will be lye solution all over the floor and your feet, and you won't be able to stop the flow until the tank is empty. This is a case of "if" not "when," speaking from experience working in the chemical industry. That is an extremely vulnerable setup -- please make a safer design!


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## Soapmaker123 (Feb 4, 2018)

Hi Deanna.  Yes.  This photo is from the initial lye tank assembly.  Later the spigot was replaced with a shorter, and more temperature-tolerant CPVC assembly, protected with a bumper-case assembly, mouted to the trolley, to surround the valve and spigot.  Also, the tank does not sit out-in-the-open as it was when these photos were taken several years ago: the tank resides in its own protected emplacement.  When the tank is nearly empty, then, it is a good opportunity to move and clean the area.


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## DeeAnna (Feb 4, 2018)

Good to hear. My suggestion -- if you're going to share photos of your equipment with the rest of the real world, you might want to share ones of your safest setup. I know there are many people who would blithely copy the equipment setup you show in these photos without any idea of the safety risks.


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## Soapmaker123 (Feb 4, 2018)

Interestingly, there are there are situations with more potential hazard than a spigot-leak, if have found.

One is just safety in moving dry lye.  I have had to unload a tractor-trailer of 60 sacks of lye by hand by  myself because the truck had no hydraulic lift-gate and the driver couldn't assist.  Summer heat and across a parking lot and down a long flight of steps to the storage area.  I am fully buttoned-up in protective gear like an astronaut.  Usually, a delivery truck will present a wrapped pallet of lye sacks into the loading-dock-door via a hydraulic lift and a pallet jack dolly.

Two is the storage of the essential oils.  I have a large essential oil stock.  So much so, that I store the bottles, jugs and cans in a special one-hour-fire-resistant locker room, with a special fire resistant steel door.  We made the fire-walls up to code with two layers of gypsum board on each side of the steel studs and caulked all the entry gaps with fire-proof caulk.  This was inspected and approved by the fire marshal.

Three is the integrity of the tank-support trolley.  I have see defective trolleys with insufficient wheel bearing strength, which, in my opinion, invited a danger of collapse.  Thereafter, I construct and over-build my own trolleys.  The trolley in the picture has a rated minimum wheel load strength of 1,400 pounds; the typical weight of the working lye tank is less than 200 pounds.  On a double-charge, the tank will still weigh less than 350 pounds.  The trolley itself weighs about 80 pounds.

Also, no one approaches or accesses the lye tank except for me.


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## DeeAnna (Feb 4, 2018)

I get where you're coming from. There is a lot of bad information out there, and I think we have an obligation to present the best information possible. If a person knows there's a better or safer way, then show it. Or explain how an existing setup could be improved to be better or safer.


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## Lin19687 (Feb 5, 2018)

Thanks  *elurah,*
*The 1st i got said 5 on the bottom but just looked too thin so I got the rubbermade 2 quart one.  I already have a 4 qt one but use that for water to the chickens *


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## Happy2018 (Feb 22, 2018)

Thanks Earlene

This is what I use to mix the lye in:










Soapmaker 123, your  pictures aren't working, or I should say, I am not seeing them.


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## shunt2011 (Feb 22, 2018)

Happy2018 said:


> Thanks Earlene
> 
> This is what I use to mix the lye in:
> 
> ...



You should never use glass to mix lye. The lye will etch the glass and could shatter.


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## Happy2018 (Feb 22, 2018)

OH !

I had no idea!

I'll have to look around for something else.


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## shunt2011 (Feb 23, 2018)

You can use stainless steel. I use plastic containers with the #5 coded triangle on the bottom.  Rubbermaid pitchers work well as do some of the store brand.  #5 or #2 are best for lye.


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## Happy2018 (Feb 23, 2018)

I will most definitely look for those rubber maid, or other containers with # 5 or # 2 on the bottom of them. 

THANK YOU!


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## Happy2018 (Feb 23, 2018)

OH, I just thought of a question,  after melting my oil, I pour it into a glass measure cup, ( I've been making small batches and experimenting until I find something I like), as the contents in the pot are shallow, and I've had a few splashes on my face  with the stick blender. (on that note, I bought a safety face protector)   Back to the measure cup, the oil is in it, then when the stick blender is going, I pour the lye in.  Is there any danger then of the glass breaking?


Thank you!


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## earlene (Feb 23, 2018)

Happy2018 said:


> OH, I just thought of a question,  after melting my oil, I pour it into a glass measure cup, ( I've been making small batches and experimenting until I find something I like), as the contents in the pot are shallow, and I've had a few splashes on my face  with the stick blender. (on that note, I bought a safety face protector)   Back to the measure cup, the oil is in it, then when the stick blender is going, I pour the lye in.  Is there any danger then of the glass breaking?
> Thank you!



Stop doing that!  First, yes, there is a danger.  Stop the glass and stop the stick blender!  Stop too shallow!

Second, don't pour the lye in while the stick blender is turned on!   No.  Keep your finger OFF that button!  In fact, if that's your habit, REMOVE the SB before you pour the lye in and use a spoon or other stirring tool instead.  Pour the lye slowly into the oils, which should be in a lye safe container that is not too shallow.  

Here s a video that shows how to safely add lye solution to the oils.  Notice the SB is not turned on.  You can do this with a silicone spatula or stainless steel spoon as well.  Also notice the container is not shallow.


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## Happy2018 (Feb 23, 2018)

WOW,

There is really a lot of mis information on the internet. I am so glad I found this site!

_*T. H .A. N. K..... Y. O. U !.!.!*_


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## DeeAnna (Feb 23, 2018)

_"...Back to the measure cup, the oil is in it, then when the stick blender is going, I pour the lye in. Is there any danger then of the glass breaking?..."_

You're wanting to find an exception to the rule about not mixing glass and lye. There aren't any exceptions.

Even if you don't believe lye can etch glass and cause it to break more easily, then think about a simple accident --

Think about simply dropping a glass container with lye solution or soap batter in it, then picture yourself being cut by a shard. If that's not enough incentive to not mix glass and lye, then I don't know what is.


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## dixiedragon (Feb 23, 2018)

I like to use a pitcher with a  lid. You can get them at dollar tree for less than $2 usually.


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## Steve85569 (Feb 23, 2018)

Glass + soap.
What could go wrong?

Just use your imagination. Glass and soap mix as well as explosives and alcohol.
Don't ask. It's a long story...


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## dibbles (Feb 23, 2018)

Happy2018, a lot of us use these. They are lye safe and not too shallow, and a stick blender fits well. Inexpensive and found at most hardware stores - the big box ones at least.


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## Happy2018 (Feb 23, 2018)

Thank you everyone, 

I went through all of my soap supplies,  and got rid of  all the glass. 

Thank you I'll look for those HDX quarts, next time I'm the "city", I'm in a rural town.  In the mean time, I'm planning a thrift store shopping spre!


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## IrishLass (Feb 23, 2018)

Happy2018 said:


> WOW,
> 
> There is really a lot of mis information on the internet.



You hit that nail right on the head!  The internet truly is a dangerous minefield for new soapmakers, no ifs, ands, or buts about it! Some (but not all) soap-making books contain misinformation as well.

There are a good handful of threads lurking about here on the forum opining the abundance of misinformation about soapmaking that gets propagated out there on the net (FB, especially). You came to the right place to help you separate the soapy facts from all the myth-information. 


IrishLass


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## MorpheusPA (Feb 26, 2018)

Technically, borosilicate glass would be fine for soap making.

However, Pyrex is no longer borosilicate and went with the cheaper tempered glass many years ago.  At this point, I wouldn't trust any glassware at all.

I also don't trust the thinner plastics.  Over time, they'll crack a bit and eventually fail, and it's not always obvious when they're about to do so.

I use a thick-walled plastic pitcher to mix my lye, and throw it out once the plastic shows signs of hazing or cracking.


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## Zany_in_CO (Feb 26, 2018)

It really is a personal preference, based on knowledge and experience. Do what works for you.

I, along with many experienced soapmakers, use Pyrex cups to mix lye and soap; also borosilicate glass beakers for lotions & potions as needed. I have several sizes.  For me, it's just easier to see what's happening. I use the microwave a lot... both to melt fats and, more recently, to cook the soap. But my batches are small (16 bars) so I do what works for me.

I had a bad experience with both #2 and #5 HDPE plastic... one crumpled under hot lye over 150°F; the other literally degraded plastic into the lye water, which I then had to pitch. While it's true that "glass breaks", plastic can slip out of your grip. So it's a moot point, to my mind at least. In either case, just be careful. Both glass and plastic degrade over time. In both cases you need to be aware and replace when needed.


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## Serene (Feb 27, 2018)

Here is what I use.  These are both #5 and can be found at the dollar store.  2 and 3 qt.  Please do your own testing to figure out if it will work for you.


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## Lin19687 (Feb 27, 2018)

That is funny, I have the Blue one and it has DE for the Chicken coop hahaha
I didn't even think to look on the bottom !


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## DianaMoon (Mar 1, 2018)

Steve85569 said:


> Glass + soap.
> What could go wrong?
> 
> Just use your imagination. Glass and soap mix as well as explosives and alcohol.
> Don't ask. It's a long story...



Please, but with all due respect, "just use your imagination" doesn't help. I don't consider myself stupid. I am totally clueless with respect to science. Sorry. I studied languages and I am a Civil War buff. But I'm a total ignoramus when it comes to chemistry, and if I had not discovered this forum, I shudder to think what I would have done because when I think "nonreactive," I think glass.


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## jcandleattic (Mar 1, 2018)

DianaMoon said:


> Please, but with all due respect, "just use your imagination" doesn't help. I don't consider myself stupid. I am totally clueless with respect to science. Sorry. I studied languages and I am a Civil War buff. But I'm a total ignoramus when it comes to chemistry, and if I had not discovered this forum, I shudder to think what I would have done because when I think "nonreactive," I think glass.


Glass can etch and become weak, and shatter with the use of lye. Now imagine that happening with a glass vessel full of lye solution. Lye solution + glass shards while holding the handle in your hand = highly dangerous.


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 2, 2018)

jcandleattic said:


> Glass can etch and become weak, and shatter with the use of lye.


While that's true, I've been using Pyrex & borosilicate since 2003 and that still hasn't happened! LOL That being said, I picked up a heavy glass 4-cup pitcher at a garage sale early in my soapmaking journey. It must have belonged to a soapmaker because it was etched so badly it looked like frosted glass. I cherish it thinking about the happy soaping journeys it must have had.

On another note, I was browsing through Delores Boone's book, _"Handmade Soap" _today_._ It's a beautiful book with lots of colored pictures and oodles of excellent information for beginners. I like to page through it for inspiration. FWIW, in the section on equipment I saw this statement: _"Glass is better than plastic for mixing lye because lye crystals will stick to plastic."  _and there was a picture showing just that. Funny I never noticed that before, but that may be just another reason why I prefer Pyrex.

In any case, to each his own, I say. No one should be put down because they prefer one to the other and nervous Nellies who try to scare Newbies into using plastic should soften the prosyltizing maybe?


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## IrishLass (Mar 2, 2018)

Zany, you may not have had your Pyrex shatter on you while soaping, and I hope you never do, but other soapers have, and it was a pretty scary and messy experience for them- one they do not care to ever repeat.  I for one do not consider cautioning those against using it as a container for mixing lye as scaremongering, but rather being a responsible soaping mentor to those new to the craft, especially when there are much less potentially dangerous lye mixing alternatives available.

Here are some examples of folks here on the forum who have experienced adverse reactions with their Pyrex. I'll begin with a former modmin of mine and a very experienced soaper who you may or may not remember (carebear). She had her Pyrex mixing container explode in her sink just a few minutes after mixing her lye solution in it. Thankfully, it was in the sink (not on her counter) and she wasn't standing right over it when it happened.

From forum member Raha from 2010:


			
				Raha said:
			
		

> Dear Soap Makers,
> Today I write for your support. I always try to be so careful when dealing with lye--as I have read a few horror stories. Well, I made a big mistake today...while making my green tea soap, I poured hot green tea in with lye...I feel so horrible for making such a big mistake...the lye bubbled up like a volcano and I stepped back and then the whole glass jug exploded. I am so so so grateful that I didn't get hurt (except for a minor burn on my thumb). I just finished cleaning the minimum and plan in a half hour or so to continue the mass clean up.
> Anyways, thank you for your support and just let me share my frustrations...
> Gratefully yours,
> Raha



From forum member Deda from 2010


			
				Deda said:
			
		

> Earlier this week I had a Pampered Chef glass batter bowl [which is made from tempered glass] explode just sitting, clean, dry and unused on the shelf. I didn't use it for soap, only pancake batter. Can you imagine the havoc wreaked if it had been filled with lye/water.



Forum member Paillo from 2011:


			
				Paillo said:
			
		

> i would be scared to death to use a glass or pyrex container for my main mixing bowl. i use glass for my smaller containers -- swirl colors, milk mixtures, etc. but last week we had a large pyrex container shatter in the sink. mercifully it wasn't soap, but there were scary sharp shards of glass everywhere, and one of us or one of the pets underfoot could have been seriously hurt.



Forum member Candybee from 2013:


			
				Candybee said:
			
		

> From my own personal experience I had a large pyrex measuring cup shatter on me one day. I wasn't using it for CP at the time. I had been making M&P soap in that glass for about 5 yrs before it finally broke. I was so surprized and had not imagined that such a sturdy popular brand of glassware would shatter on me but it sure did. So when seasoned soapers tell me that lye can etch the glass that tells me it weakens the glass and yes it will eventually shatter. Could take a few weeks or a few years but I would not want to be there if it shattered with a lye mixture in it.



Forum member BlueberryHill from 2015:


			
				BlueberryHill said:
			
		

> I just had my Pyrex glass measuring cup explode as I was pouring lye into it! Thank goodness it was in my laundry sink, where I always mix my lye water, and I was all safety geared up! I'm shocked because I used it last week for the first time and it was fine. I thought I was being safer using the Pyrex than the plastic container from the dollar store. I hadn't read the article in this thread before. Beware everyone.



Forum member Newbie from 2016:


			
				Newbie said:
			
		

> I am one of the people who has had pyrex shatter. Thankfully, it shattered while in the dishwasher instead of all over my kitchen. Lesson learned.



There are also a good handful of soapers over at the Dishforum that have had it happen to them as well, but I'm not about to copy/paste their testimonies here. You'll have to go searching for them over there.

Glass is pretty strong stuff, but there are four things that are its 'kryptonite (if I can borrow from Superman jargon), i.e., things that aggressively attack it and weaken its resistance, causing it to actually corrode and even dissolve layer by layer:

1) Hydroflouric acid
2) Concentrated phosphoric acic (when hot or when it contains flourides)
3) Hot concentrated alkali solutions of at least 9 pH (lye has a pH of 14)
4) Superheated water

Of the above 4 things, the thing that concerns us as soapmakers of course is #3, alkali. Alkalis affect the surface of glass by directly attacking the silica that the glass is made of, leading to its dissolution, little by little, over time as the surface of the glass is repeatedly exposed to the alkaline solution. And the rate of corrosion increases if the hot alkaline substance is agitated, such as when being stirred.

The above corrosion happens to all glass with the repeated exposure to hot lye solution- _even borosilicate. See the following safety sheet on borosilicate glass....scroll down to 3.3 under Chemical Composition:_
*https://www.scilabware.com/en/glass-types-properties*
_ "Only hydrofluoric acid, hot concentrated phosphoric acid and strong
 alkaline solutions cause appreciable corrosion of the glass." [emphasis mine]
_
Also this in regards to borosilicate glass_: *http://www.camglassblowing.co.uk/glass-properties/*
 "Resistance to alkaline solutions is moderate and strong alkaline solutions cause rapid corrosion of the glass, as does Hydrofluoric acid and hot concentrated Phosphoric acid." [emphasis mine]
_
See also the following in regards to how glass corrodes_: _*http://corrosion-doctors.org/Household/Glass.htm * _"Glass is resistant to most acids but is highly susceptible to attack by alkaline materials, especially a concentration of OH*-* ions giving a pH greater than 9.0. The result is an attack of the network forming silica-oxygen (Si-O) bonds, leading to dissolution of the glass surface." [emphasis mine]_

While it's true that borosilicate glass is stronger and more resistant and takes a longer time to weaken than soda-lime glass, its still chemically vulnerable to concentrated alkaline solutions and will dissolve bit by bit with every exposure until it reaches the point of no return, aka, 'kaboom!'. The problem is that it's impossible for any of us to know when the shattering day of reckoning will arrive until it actually arrives. You may be willing to take that risk, and that is your choice, but I for one will continue to 'proselytize' about it so that those who are new to the craft and haven't yet been made aware of this issue will at least be able to make an informed choice.


IrishLass


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## shunt2011 (Mar 2, 2018)

I too have had pyrex explode.  I wasn't making soap but tea.  I took it out of the microwave and set it on the counter and it shattered.   I think it's irresponsible of anyone to say that using glass with lye is safe or okay.  Individuals can feel free to do so if they so choose but should not tell others it's okay.   If someone has it happen because another person said it was okay, I would be horrified as that person.

Safety first and always working with lye.


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## DeeAnna (Mar 2, 2018)

Irish Lass -- Thank you for taking the time to research and write your post, Irish Lass. It took a lot of time and hard work, and the result is extremely well done! Again, my heartfelt thanks.

Zany -- Your name calling is inappropriate and unworthy of you. If YOU want to use glass, that's your choice and your problem. On SMF, we have a responsibility to the newcomers here to provide the best advice and guidance we can. And the best advice about lye and glass is that lye should not ever be stored or mixed in glass. There are detailed technical data and sufficient anecdotal reports, as Irish Lass' post shows, to prove this to be a blunt fact. I, for one, am not going to change my perspective nor moderate what I say about this matter.


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## DianaMoon (Mar 2, 2018)

jcandleattic said:


> Glass can etch and become weak, and shatter with the use of lye. Now imagine that happening with a glass vessel full of lye solution. Lye solution + glass shards while holding the handle in your hand = highly dangerous.



My point about objecting to "Just use your imagination" is that those of us who have a zero fact base will not be able to imagine anything. The phrase itself is a substitute for giving facts in a neutral fashion. 

I'm not looking to start an argument, and I won't say anything further on the subject because I know the internet and things can get out of hand quickly. 

I am simply admitting total scientific illiteracy. I've benefited from great advice in this forum. It's my go-to for soaping myth-busting.

Addendum: here is an example of what an ignoramus like me would have thought before coming here. Plastic is made of chemicals and oils, and perhaps it will react with the lye and give off toxic fumes that are harmful. Glass OTOH is "non-reactive."  Use glass.  OK, after reading here, I am convinced that plastic is the way to go. But if I hadn't been a advised of that, I would never have "imagined" it.


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## NsMar42111 (Mar 2, 2018)

I use the rubbermaid pitchers-nice and thick, and I get the oversized ones so I have plenty of room (saved my bacon when I made mountain dew soap and what a lye volcano!). Much cheaper than a doctor bill!


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## jcandleattic (Mar 2, 2018)

Zany_in_CO said:


> While that's true, I've been using Pyrex & borosilicate since 2003 and that still hasn't happened!


Maybe you have the pyrex that hasn't been reformulated. The newer pyrex glass is not like the kind you could get "back in the day". You've been lucky. I'm glad. 
Personally, I would rather be safe than lucky, but as you said, to each their own. 



DianaMoon said:


> My point about objecting to "Just use your imagination" is that those of us who have a zero fact base will not be able to imagine anything. The phrase itself is a substitute for giving facts in a neutral fashion.


Oh, I understand that, which is why I was trying to paint you a picture with words, so you could imagine it, that's all. 
DianaMoon, you have been asking excellent questions, and we can tell you are learning from the answers, and are excited in your new venture, and we are excited with you.


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## DianaMoon (Mar 2, 2018)

jcandleattic said:


> Maybe you have the pyrex that hasn't been reformulated. The newer pyrex glass is not like the kind you could get "back in the day". You've been lucky. I'm glad.
> Personally, I would rather be safe than lucky, but as you said, to each their own.
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you JCandle, I'm amazed at how much I've grown intellectually as a result of deciding to make soap, on a whim (sort of).  I was very daunted by Soap Calc at first, but I forced myself.


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 2, 2018)

*Irish,, Shari and DeeAnna:* Excellent information. Good to know. Thank you all and esp. Irish for the detailed accounts of horrific accidents.  And this certainly is a good thread to store it all together in one place.

Sorry if I offended you, but, whether you are aware of it or not, there are  times, like this, when you do come across  as intimidating rather than helpful, JMHO and IME.  And in my case, disrespectful, derisive, mocking, hurtful, etc. almost to the point of "bullying the new kid" during my short time on this forum, as not one, but a chorus of members would pile on, one after another, at the mere mention of my using Pyrex. Not kind.

Thought: Perhaps that's why we have so many Newbies parroting your position rather than experienced soapers willing to support mine. Experienced soapers treated that way seem to vanish, as I was ready to do also, until a very sweet member graciously PM'ed me and encouraged me to hang around.

There is no right or wrong on this subject; just a matter of opinion based on fact and/or experience in both camps. The other camp is what I'm presenting here. What's important, to my mind at least, is that we respect each other's preference and everyone's right to choose.

Just to be clear, as far as I know, I've just shared my preference as _"this is what I use"_ and _"why I prefer Pyrex"_ rather than _"you shoulld do as I do because I know what's best for you."_  As *Diane* alluded to, _Plastic is made of chemicals and oils, and perhaps it will react with the lye and give off toxic fumes that are harmful. Glass OTOH is "non-reactive. Use glass." _She should be commended for making that correct and thoughtful observation_. _Plastic #2 and #5 does degrade over time, shouldn't be used if temperatures climb over 150°F, in my experience, or it can crumple and ruin your container or leach into and ruin your lye solution. Also, you can't see through opaque plastic to determine if you've stirred enough so the solution is clear or if there are any degraded particles floating around in there.

I've never suggested to anyone that they do as I do but rather I've tried to share that it is an option left to their own discretion. I understand and sympathize with all who have had a bad experience. *It proves the point that soapers need to take care.* I hope we can all agree that the emphasis should be on taking great care with lye -- the importance of wearing protection and being alert and mindful while handling it -- including not setting a hot container on a cold surface; adding lye to the water -- not the other way around; be prepared to act quickly if some splashes on you; no kids, pets, and other distractions while soaping; and so on.

Stepping off my soapbox now.  Sorry to take so long. This just seemed to be the right time and right thread to say what needed to be said from the Minority of One on SMF. Thank goodness I'm not the only one in the soaping world outside of SMF. _Deo Gratias. _

Namaste


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## DianaMoon (Mar 2, 2018)

Zany_in_CO said:


> *Irish,, Shari and DeeAnna:* Excellent information. Good to know. Thank you all and esp. Irish for the detailed accounts of horrific accidents.  And this certainly is a good thread to store it all together in one place.
> 
> Sorry if I offended you, but, whether you are aware of it or not, you do come across  as intimidating rather than helpful, JMHO and IME.  And in my case, disrespectful, derisive, mocking, hurtful, etc. almost to the point of "bullying the new kid" during my short time on this forum, as not one, but a bevy of members would pile on, one after another, at the mere mention of my using Pyrex. Not kind.
> 
> ...



We should all feel free to ask away and to express how we do things. The only rule is: give a good reason why you do it the way you do.


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## IrishLass (Mar 4, 2018)

Zany_in_CO said:


> *Irish,, Shari and DeeAnna:* Excellent information. Good to know. Thank you all and esp. Irish for the detailed accounts of horrific accidents.  And this certainly is a good thread to store it all together in one place.
> 
> Sorry if I offended you, but, whether you are aware of it or not, there are  times, like this, when you do come across  as intimidating rather than helpful, JMHO and IME.  And in my case, disrespectful, derisive, mocking, hurtful, etc. almost to the point of "bullying the new kid" during my short time on this forum, as not one, but a chorus of members would pile on, one after another, at the mere mention of my using Pyrex. Not kind.


Zany, I don't know if you have had the chance yet to read the *SMF Culture & Tone sticky* in the Announcement and Rules section, but that will go a mile in helping to explain why certain subjects elicit certain responses on SMF (see especially item #4 in the sticky. It has always been the position of our forum to discourage the use of Pyrex in soapmaking for safety reasons). I'm sorry you have felt bullied, but I can assure you that it has been no ones intention to bully or be unkind. The link I provided will (hopefully) help to explain that.


IrishLass


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## Happy2018 (Mar 6, 2018)

Its been a while, and aching to make some soap, I've gotten myself a couple of thick rubbermaid pitchers, and won't be able to make soap until later this week. I've been reading the posts since my last post. 

OMG  I had no idea of some of the horrific accidents, and want to say, THANK YOU SO MUCH  for all of your posts!


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## melinda48 (Jan 5, 2019)

I had no idea either. I too thought plastic mixed with lye and water would be problematic. I truly learn something new every day. Many thanks for this forum!


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## Suzy Knight (Jan 6, 2019)

Zany_in_CO said:


> *Irish,, Shari and DeeAnna:* Excellent information. Good to know. Thank you all and esp. Irish for the detailed accounts of horrific accidents.  And this certainly is a good thread to store it all together in one place.
> 
> Sorry if I offended you, but, whether you are aware of it or not, there are  times, like this, when you do come across  as intimidating rather than helpful, JMHO and IME.  And in my case, disrespectful, derisive, mocking, hurtful, etc. almost to the point of "bullying the new kid" during my short time on this forum, as not one, but a chorus of members would pile on, one after another, at the mere mention of my using Pyrex. Not kind.
> 
> ...


Just wanted to let you know I've felt the same. It's why I rarely come here unless I want to add to the "What soapy thing have you done today?" Thread. I never ask for help because the last time I did I was censured and belittled. Pity.


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## carolp (Jan 6, 2019)

Ughh! I wish I had read these posts before buying containers!  I am a new soaper. After watching many, many videos and reading illustrated soap making books, I purchased glass and plastic containers from a reputable provider of soap making supplies.  It never occurred to me that they might not be the safest containers to use, specifically the glass. 

I am happy to have learned so much this morning and will be looking to replace my pyrex and large glass mixing container!


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## karon L adams (Jan 7, 2019)

Look to chemical supply places. I had a Nalgene tank that held 200 gallons for my lye tank. but, of course, smaller containers for smaller amounts. look for Nalgene. when you are dealing with something as extreme as lye, you have to check the kind of plastic. stainless steel is always good but when using plastic you have to know what kind of plastic.


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## Jan Kates (Jan 8, 2019)

karon L adams said:


> Look to chemical supply places. I had a Nalgene tank that held 200 gallons for my lye tank. but, of course, smaller containers for smaller amounts. look for Nalgene. when you are dealing with something as extreme as lye, you have to check the kind of plastic. stainless steel is always good but when using plastic you have to know what kind of plastic.


I freak out mixing enough lye solution for a 1kg batch of soap! How long does 220L of lye last? Once its mixed how long can you store it for?


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## shunt2011 (Jan 8, 2019)

I store my masterbatched lye in a laundry soap container that has been washed out really well. I mix 4 lbs lye with 4 lbs water at a time. Label bottle as .


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## Jan Kates (Jan 8, 2019)

shunt2011 said:


> I store my masterbatched lye in a laundry soap container that has been washed out really well. I mix 4 lbs lye with 4 lbs water at a time. Label bottle as .


That's a good suggestion. Does this mean you always use the same recipe? by that I mean you KNOW whatever you are making is uses x volume of 50% solution? Apologies if that's a really dumb question. I thought the ration of lye to water changes (or could) from recipe to recipe? Sigh. I have so much to learn.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 8, 2019)

@Jan Kates -- Yes, you're right that the amount of water can vary in proportion to the alkali (lye) from recipe to recipe. But think about it -- You add varying amounts of water when you make different recipes starting with solid NaOH, right? It's essentially the same idea when you use a 50% NaOH solution. The only difference is you add less water with the 50% solution than you do with the dry NaOH.


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## Jan Kates (Jan 8, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> @Jan Kates -- Yes, you're right that the amount of water can vary in proportion to the alkali (lye) from recipe to recipe. But think about it -- You add varying amounts of water when you make different recipes starting with solid NaOH, right? It's essentially the same idea when you use a 50% NaOH solution. The only difference is you add less water with the 50% solution than you do with the dry NaOH.


ah ok. I think it will be a long tiome before I am confident enough to make adjustments to a recipe on the fly like that. Mental maths not being my strong point!


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## atiz (Jan 8, 2019)

Jan Kates said:


> ah ok. I think it will be a long tiome before I am confident enough to make adjustments to a recipe on the fly like that. Mental maths not being my strong point!


You can do it, it is really simple. Let's say your recipe says you need 3 oz lye with 6.5 oz water. If you have a 50% lye solution, you measure out 6 oz, which will have 3 oz lye and 3 oz water in it (3+3=6). So your lye in your recipe is all accounted for, and now you only need to add another 3.5 oz water to have 6.5 oz water as per your recipe.
[[Disclaimer: well, I have never actually done this... but this is how I'd do it. Maybe there are simpler ways.]]


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## Jan Kates (Jan 8, 2019)

atiz said:


> You can do it, it is really simple. Let's say your recipe says you need 3 oz lye with 6.5 oz water. If you have a 50% lye solution, you measure out 6 oz, which will have 3 oz lye and 3 oz water in it (3+3=6). So your lye in your recipe is all accounted for, and now you only need to add another 3.5 oz water to have 6.5 oz water as per your recipe.
> [[Disclaimer: well, I have never actually done this... but this is how I'd do it. Maybe there are simpler ways.]]


LOL now I'm rocking in the corner of the room.
Actually I do understand that example.


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## melinda48 (Jan 9, 2019)

carolp said:


> Ughh! I wish I had read these posts before buying containers!  I am a new soaper. After watching many, many videos and reading illustrated soap making books, I purchased glass and plastic containers from a reputable provider of soap making supplies.  It never occurred to me that they might not be the safest containers to use, specifically the glass.
> 
> I am happy to have learned so much this morning and will be looking to replace my pyrex and large glass mixing container!


Keep reading. There are many who swear by Pyrex. I, too, am new to soaping and am learning that there is often more,than one preferred way to accomplish many things.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 9, 2019)

melinda48 said:


> Keep reading. There are many who swear by Pyrex. I, too, am new to soaping and am learning that there is often more,than one preferred way to accomplish many things.



I'd rephrase that -- Avoiding glass with strong alkalis (NaOH, in other words) is NOT a preference. It's an established, proven safety precaution that chemistry labs train their workers to respect and follow. Soap makers should too.

Problem is, many soapers who use glass for their lye solutions and soap batter have not gotten into trouble with this practice, sometimes for many years. Because of this, they don't accept the facts about why it's not a smart idea. They can't see the microscopic etching that weakens the glass, nor have they had a fumble footed moment and dropped a glass container to shatter on the floor. But just because they've been fortunate enough to not have problems is not sufficient justification to ignore the safety recommendation.

It's like safety belts in cars -- until you need your safety belt, there's no point to wearing it. A lot of people ride in cars for years without safety belts and don't suffer any consequences, so they don't see any reason to change their ways. Unfortunately, when they need the protection of that safety belt, it's far too late to buckle up and the consequences are severe.


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## newlife (Jan 9, 2019)

I make full batches of lye solution for my regular recipe and store them in the Gladware containers with the screw top. They are #5 (polypropylene). I also make full batches of my butters and oils and also store in the large Gladware bowls. I place them in a hot water bath if they solidify depending on the time of year. I’m not good at math at all and it makes my head hurt so this has been the best solution for me. I got the idea from Amanda Aaron from Lovin Soap.


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## karon L adams (Jan 9, 2019)

Jan Kates said:


> I freak out mixing enough lye solution for a 1kg batch of soap! How long does 220L of lye last? Once its mixed how long can you store it for?


I never stored it. that was for a standard batch. Can't remember exactly what the recipe was but we mixed up the lye and the oil in a speparate tank. oroginally, we mixed it all at once in the stainless tank. but that created a mad RUSH to get all 20 types of soap set, colored, scented and cast before the entire batch began to set up.

Later, we mixed oils in the stainless and lye in the nalgeneand measured out the amount of oil & lye for the 20 pound cast and made it with the drills. we usually had two drill set ups running at all times. even so, the process took about 5 hours but each batch was done individually and well.


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## karon L adams (Jan 15, 2019)

Jan Kates said:


> I freak out mixing enough lye solution for a 1kg batch of soap! How long does 220L of lye last? Once its mixed how long can you store it for?


generally? about 6 hours before I made it into soap.  I made soap and oil a batch at a time. I made 400 pounds of soap, broken into 20 20 pound molds each 20 pound mold was it's own variety or fragrance


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## Meena (Jan 16, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> I'd rephrase that -- Avoiding glass with strong alkalis (NaOH, in other words) is NOT a preference. It's an established, proven safety precaution that chemistry labs train their workers to respect and follow. Soap makers should too.
> 
> Problem is, many soapers who use glass for their lye solutions and soap batter have not gotten into trouble with this practice, sometimes for many years. Because of this, they don't accept the facts about why it's not a smart idea. They can't see the microscopic etching that weakens the glass, nor have they had a fumble footed moment and dropped a glass container to shatter on the floor. But just because they've been fortunate enough to not have problems is not sufficient justification to ignore the safety recommendation.
> 
> It's like safety belts in cars -- until you need your safety belt, there's no point to wearing it. A lot of people ride in cars for years without safety belts and don't suffer any consequences, so they don't see any reason to change their ways. Unfortunately, when they need the protection of that safety belt, it's far too late to buckle up and the consequences are severe.



Ditto the above for goggles.  I don't think they are a preference item, either.  Eyesight is precious, and you never know when that one time will be.  If you've been lucky, great!  I wouldn't keep pushing your luck, though.  I know I'm a new soaper, yeah yeah, but you will find me in goggles during any activity where they are recommended/advised, including soaping.


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## karon L adams (Jan 16, 2019)

Meena said:


> Ditto the above for goggles.  I don't think they are a preference item, either.  Eyesight is precious, and you never know when that one time will be.  If you've been lucky, great!  I wouldn't keep pushing your luck, though.  I know I'm a new soaper, yeah yeah, but you will find me in goggles during any activity where they are recommended/advised, including soaping.


class is a dangerous thinjg in chemistry. the RIGHT glass has its place when used the RIGHT way. but you must do your research.

I used plastic whenever possible. as mentioned food safe and non-reactive plastics.

as for your goggles. ALWAYS, ALWAYS ALWAYS, the splash only has to go the wrong way ONCE


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