# Hot Process Soap - Volcano on Purpose??



## KimW (Jul 14, 2020)

Greetings all!  Wanting to expand to making hot process soap.  Stumbled on "The Ultimate Guide to Hot Process Soap" and in all the videos and tutorials I've watched/read so far, it looks like they bring the soap to what I think is the "Volcano" stage on purpose - which actually looks like some good fun.  But, seems like I read everywhere else that the volcano stage is something to be avoided.  I've tried to research this, but just keep getting hits on avoiding it... Maybe I misunderstand "volcano stage"?  Hoping someone can help me understand what I'm seeing in these videos:  

Thank you!


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## DeeAnna (Jul 14, 2020)

If you think it's an intriguing idea to manage a strong chemical reaction that's close to going out of control without your 100% strict attention, then by all means volcano away. I think once a person gets used to the technique, it's probably not that big of a deal, but the consequences of failure are ... interesting.

But most people aren't too enthused about seeking this level of excitement. There are safer and less anxiety producing ways to accomplish the same thing -- soap -- without nearly the thrills and chills. 

High temp HP is definitely not something I'd recommend to a new soaper who is trying to build skills -- that would be like putting a toddler on a motorcycle.


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## cmzaha (Jul 14, 2020)

In all my years of soaping I had one accidental volcano while making LS which I could not get to stir down, I never want to experience another volcano, whether on purpose or not. Nope, not me. I really do not see the point of wanting to push my luck and deal with boiling hot soap again, it was not fun.


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## Tinlee (Jul 14, 2020)

Scary


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## msunnerstood (Jul 14, 2020)

I dont know that i seek them but because I soap hot, I expect them. 

Ashley from the UGHPS soaps at 200 or just above so a volcano is an expectation and she recommends a crock pot/Bowl 3 times the height of the batter. 

I would not recommend those kinds of temperatures for a newer soaper. You can achieve fluidity in other ways like Yogurt, or a simple syrup after the cook.


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## KimW (Jul 14, 2020)

msunnerstood said:


> I dont know that i seek them but because I soap hot, I expect them.
> 
> Ashley from the UGHPS soaps at 200 or just above so a volcano is an expectation and she recommends a crock pot/Bowl 3 times the height of the batter.
> 
> I would not recommend those kinds of temperatures for a newer soaper. You can achieve fluidity in other ways like Yogurt, or a simple syrup after the cook.


Thanks, msunnerstood - So, then she's doing this to achieve fluidity quicker?


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## msunnerstood (Jul 14, 2020)

KimW said:


> Thanks, msunnerstood - So, then she's doing this to achieve fluidity quicker?



The concept is if you cook quicker, you lose less water but I think the other idea is to be done quicker.  Its risky though because if you cant control the volcano, you have hot, lye heavy batter everywhere and potentially on your skin. 

I would start with temps from 170-180. Adding yogurt powder in oil after the cook or hot sugar water, putting the lid back on and waiting a few minutes will increase fluidity without as much danger. you will still have the batter rise up on you but not as quicky. 

Once you get used to handling the volcanoes, you can start experimenting with higher temps going up slightly each time.


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## KimW (Jul 14, 2020)

msunnerstood said:


> The concept is if you cook quicker, you lose less water but I think the other idea is to be done quicker.  Its risky though because if you cant control the volcano, you have hot, lye heavy batter everywhere and potentially on your skin.
> 
> I would start with temps from 170-180. Adding yogurt powder in oil after the cook or hot sugar water, putting the lid back on and waiting a few minutes will increase fluidity without as much danger. you will still have the batter rise up on you but not as quicky.
> 
> Once you get used to handling the volcanoes, you can start experimenting with higher temps going up slightly each time.


Got it.  I shall follow your advice - thanks SO much!


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## AliOop (Jul 15, 2020)

Honestly, most so-called volcanos in high-temp hot process (HTHP) are better classified as "expansions." The batter expands and puffs up, but is easily stirred back down. It's not a true volcano in the sense of an uncontrollable explosion of soap batter flowing everywhere.

I regularly use Ashley's HTHP method and have had only one expansion that was scary due to a small amount of batter overflow. This happened only because I didn't follow the directions; my oils were at least 40º hotter than the max recommended starting temp. Oops. Lesson learned - stir the oils before checking the temp!  _ETA: I remember now that this was also the first time that I'd ever used molasses as my sugar. It definitely heats up the batter even more than honey, IMO._

That being said, I also didn't try HTHP until I was pretty experienced with soaping -- probably 6-7 years in. By that time, all the basics of soaping were already automatic for me. No way should a new soaper who is just remembering all the basics steps try HTHP.

Also, Ashley never claims that HTHP is the only way to get fluid HP batter - it's just quicker. Her book also has information about getting fluid batter with low-temp HP. But the best part about that book is all the information about soap science, fatty acid profiles, and how to create recipes that turn into good soap. Sure, most of that information is available on sites like this for free. I personally felt that having a lot of soaping information in one place for easy reading, plus all the info on HTHP that was not readily available elsewhere, made the book well worth the price.


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## Arimara (Jul 15, 2020)

To be fair, producer of that video does state in the coments that this is not something for a beginner soapmaker to even attempt. I agree with that statement 1000%. I wouldn't even use that process because I am prone to making a lot of mistakes.


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## cmzaha (Jul 15, 2020)

CP soap is so much easier and controllable.  I just do not understand the point of fussing with any type of hp except with cranky fo's or shave soap when a one wants to play with colors and fluid batters. But what do I know...


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## gloopygloop (Jul 15, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> CP soap is so much easier and controllable.  I just do not understand the point of fussing with any type of hp except with cranky fo's or shave soap when a one wants to play with colors and fluid batters. But what do I know...



Ooooow I dont agree that CP is much easier, mmmm temperamental FOs, seizing, separation, ricing, oil on top, partial gel. HP easy peasy with none of those problems but I guess you love it or hate it! I happen to love it❤


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## KimW (Jul 15, 2020)

AliOop said:


> Honestly, most so-called volcanos in high-temp hot process (HTHP) are better classified as "expansions." The batter expands and puffs up, but is easily stirred back down. It's not a true volcano in the sense of an uncontrollable explosion of soap batter flowing everywhere.
> 
> I regularly use Ashley's HTHP method and have had only one expansion that was scary due to a small amount of batter overflow. This happened only because I didn't follow the directions; my oils were at least 40º hotter than the max recommended starting temp. Oops. Lesson learned - stir the oils before checking the temp!  _ETA: I remember now that this was also the first time that I'd ever used molasses as my sugar. It definitely heats up the batter even more than honey, IMO._
> 
> ...


Thank you so much!  I suspected, as you and msunnerstood have explained, that her method was to get it done faster.  Thank you also for explaining that she's mixing past the heat expansion phase, rather then creating a true "volcano" - neither of which have I seen in CP.


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## KimW (Jul 15, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> CP soap is so much easier and controllable.  I just do not understand the point of fussing with any type of hp except with cranky fo's or shave soap when a one wants to play with colors and fluid batters. But what do I know...


I'm sure you know plenty.  I'd expanding to HP for two reasons: 1.) The speed to usable and then dried (aka cured) bars  2.) Learn something new.


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## gloopygloop (Jul 15, 2020)

KimW said:


> I'm sure you know plenty.  I'd expanding to HP for two reasons: 1.) The speed to usable and then dried (aka cured) bars  2.) Learn something new.



Bare in mind HP isn't usable any faster than CP as it still needs to cure for at least 4 weeks, I have used fresh HP and its fine but not like cured HP at all. Incidentally I find crock pots to be too hot and never use them, have not had success with high heat, but stove top or oven where its controllable I find works best and it doesn't take long to be done.


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## AliOop (Jul 15, 2020)

I agree with @gloopygloop that the HTHP bars don’t cure any faster. They do saponify faster, so they are safe to use almost immediately.  But “safe” does not equal “ideal.”

I didn’t know this for the first few years that I soaped, and I always wondered why some bars felt different than others (not as drying), or didn’t get mushy in the shower.  Curing was what made all the difference. Your soap will be so much nicer on your skin, and will last so much longer, after a proper cure.

I also hate using a crockpot bc it is too heavy to handle easily and too difficult to control the temp. Plus, a lot of soap gets overcooked and dried on the sides, and thus wasted bc you don’t want to incorporate those dried bits into your soap. Also, some people don’t have a crockpot and don’t need to spend on another item that is stored just for soap.

For HTHP, I prefer to heat on the stove, using a stainless pot with handles. Compared to a heavy crock, it is sooo much easier to pour from there into the mold, or into separate containers for mixing colors.

For her HTHP method, Ashley primarily uses the microwave to melt her oils, and adds no additional heat after that. I enjoy that for small batches, but my microwave is too small to fit the size of container needed for larger batches of HTHP. As noted, you need a container big enough to accommodate the possibility of a significant expansion. My expansions are fairly tame, but I don’t and won’t take chances by using a too-small container, just to get it into the microwave.

I suppose I could melt the oils for a large batch in the microwave, and then pour them into my preheated stainless pot for mixing. But part of my love for HTHP is the economy of dishes to wash, and the simplicity of fewer steps to take.

Lots of ways to skin the cat, as they say. Much of the fun comes from trying different things and finding what works for you.


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## sarahmarah (Jul 15, 2020)

I love Ashley’s Cold Process book. It really broke down CP in a way that was accessible to me. I’ll have to grab this HP book!


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## AliOop (Jul 15, 2020)

sarahmarah said:


> I love Ashley’s Cold Process book. It really broke down CP in a way that was accessible to me. I’ll have to grab this HP book!


I started with the HP book bc I had long ago started with HP soapmaking, based on an ancient blog post I’d read. After her teaching upped my HP game so dramatically, I ended up getting her LS book and then the CP book, too. She’s super responsive to emails and in her FB group, too. Very sweet lady.


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## Megan (Jul 15, 2020)

It looks far to tiring and stressful for me to try. All that whisking to avoid overflow.


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## AliOop (Jul 15, 2020)

Megan said:


> It looks far to tiring and stressful for me to try. All that whisking to avoid overflow.


I actually whisk more in CP to avoid getting past emulsion.


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## linne1gi (Jul 15, 2020)

KimW said:


> Greetings all!  Wanting to expand to making hot process soap.  Stumbled on "The Ultimate Guide to Hot Process Soap" and in all the videos and tutorials I've watched/read so far, it looks like they bring the soap to what I think is the "Volcano" stage on purpose - which actually looks like some good fun.  But, seems like I read everywhere else that the volcano stage is something to be avoided.  I've tried to research this, but just keep getting hits on avoiding it... Maybe I misunderstand "volcano stage"?  Hoping someone can help me understand what I'm seeing in these videos:
> 
> Thank you!



Check out videos on YouTube on Fluid Hot Process.  It's amazing.


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## linne1gi (Jul 15, 2020)

KimW said:


> I'm sure you know plenty.  I'd expanding to HP for two reasons: 1.) The speed to usable and then dried (aka cured) bars  2.) Learn something new.


As others have said, HP soap is pretty much the same as CP soap except it has been cooked to saponification in about an hour as opposed to saponifying in the mold.  There's absolutely no magic involved that makes it cure faster than CP.  I honestly don't understand how this fallacy every got started.  Yes, it is safe to use when you unmold it - the same as CP soap is safe to use after about 24 hours.  But it is not it's best.  It needs to have water evaporate - get harder and continue to harden the crystalline inner structure.  But definitely cure HP soap for 4-6 weeks the same as CP.


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## Kcryss (Jul 15, 2020)

I started with hot process and have always had volcanoes. The first few times it was a bit scary, but stirring it down was not a problem. My soap batter with oils and lye are a little less than half the crockpot.  As someone else mentioned, you do need a crockpot or cooking vessel that is much larger then needed for the amount of batter. You do have to stay by the crock while cooking. Do not walk away or you'll be cleaning up a big mess. 

I like being able to add things after the cook that will not be eaten by the lye monster.


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## linne1gi (Jul 15, 2020)

Kcryss said:


> I started with hot process and have always had volcanoes. The first few times it was a bit scary, but stirring it down was not a problem. My soap batter with oils and lye are a little less than half the crockpot.  As someone else mentioned, you do need a crockpot or cooking vessel that is much larger then needed for the amount of batter. You do have to stay by the crock while cooking. Do not walk away or you'll be cleaning up a big mess.
> 
> I like being able to add things after the cook that will not be eaten by the lye monster.


Yes!


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## KimW (Aug 28, 2020)

AliOop said:


> I agree with @gloopygloop that the HTHP bars don’t cure any faster. They do saponify faster, so they are safe to use almost immediately.  But “safe” does not equal “ideal.”
> 
> I didn’t know this for the first few years that I soaped, and I always wondered why some bars felt different than others (not as drying), or didn’t get mushy in the shower.  Curing was what made all the difference. Your soap will be so much nicer on your skin, and will last so much longer, after a proper cure.
> 
> ...


Hiya AliOop.  It's been a minute since you so kindly replied to my thread.  Follow-up question:  Have you noticed any issues with using stainless steel pots?  I'm finding I love the HTHP method of UltimateHP.  No more of the house smelling like soap for hours, no more wondering if the yogurt in the fridge is still good (I live in the middle of nowhere, so there's no just running to the store for plain yogurt).  Like you, I find crocks too heavy and the microwave too small, so I've always used my stainless steel pots - even for CP, just easier to use the same equip!   

I came across some threads about avoiding any sort of metal in soap making, including stainless.  I knew about glass and aluminum and copper et al, but "assumed" stainless was safe.  Now I'm wondering about stainless.  I can deal with doing regular HP in a crock if I must, but I think the crock isn't deep enough for the HTHP method, but maybe that's due to my limited experience with HTHP.  The highest temp rating I've found in professional grade containers is 210F for polycarbonate (all sellers of HDPE and PP have stated 180F as max temp), which is lower than the HTHP oils starting temp.  So, then, plastic isn't an option either for HTHP.  I've asked "what's the recommended blending container" question on one of UltimateHPs videos and haven't received a reply.  Perhaps because I'm not an official student - which is understandable.  I also tried to register on the website a couple of weeks ago, but when I try to login it still says my registration is pending. Their fb group page says to email questions about processes, recipes, etc , rather than posting it on the page.  Sadly, I do have some questions before buying the book, mainly about necessary equipment. Honestly, I'm wondering if I can afford the method since the recommended stick blender is $99 (which I did go ahead and purchase)!  LOL  Many thanks again.


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## AliOop (Aug 28, 2020)

Hi Kim, a stainless steel pot is the perfect cooking container for HTHP, and is what I use to make it on the stove. So you are good to go there. I don't think you will have to spend more on equipment - your regular soap equipment should be just fine. I use a very cheap stick blender and it has worked fine for me. But your investment in the $99 blender will last you a long time and probably save money in the long run.

Also, if you do decide to buy the book, be sure to use the FACEBOOKSPECIAL code to get 10% off on the price. They often run better specials around holidays, so watch the website and FB group for another coupon code around Labor Day weekend.


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## KimW (Aug 28, 2020)

AliOop said:


> Hi Kim, a stainless steel pot is the perfect cooking container for HTHP, and is what I use to make it on the stove. So you are good to go there. I don't think you will have to spend more on equipment - your regular soap equipment should be just fine. I use a very cheap stick blender and it has worked fine for me. But your investment in the $99 blender will last you a long time and probably save money in the long run.
> 
> Also, if you do decide to buy the book, be sure to use the FACEBOOKSPECIAL code to get 10% off on the price. They often run better specials around holidays, so watch the website and FB group for another coupon code around Labor Day weekend.


You're a peach.  Thanks so much.  I was close to pouting with the thought that I might not be able to HTHP.  LOL


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## IrishLass (Aug 28, 2020)

KimW said:


> I came across some threads about avoiding any sort of metal in soap making, including stainless.  I knew about glass and aluminum and copper et al, but "assumed" stainless was safe.  Now I'm wondering about stainless.



For what it's worth, I've been soaping in stainless steel bowls and pots for 15 years and have not had a single problem. I believe that whatever reported problems are due to using stainless that is not of good quality (there are different grades of stainless steel). The grade of stainless I use for soaping is 18/8 or 18/10 which is the most resistant to corrosion.  


IrishLass


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