# Best facial bar ever



## Obsidian (Dec 30, 2013)

I'm sure there are other people who have already discovered this  but if you have dry skin, Genny's shampoo bar is a amazing facial bar. Try it

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=30946&


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## TVivian (Dec 30, 2013)

Yes!! I absolutely can vouch for this!


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## DeeAnna (Dec 30, 2013)

Or even as an all-over bath soap for dry skin. I can vouch for that too!


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## lpstephy85 (Dec 30, 2013)

Making it as soon as I get my Avocado from WSP


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## shunt2011 (Dec 30, 2013)

If you have a Costco they have Avocado Oil at a pretty reasonable price....it was more than 16 oz and it was 9.99 a bottle.  I'd never seen it there before but want to go back and pick some up as it's a great price.


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## lpstephy85 (Dec 30, 2013)

shunt2011 said:


> If you have a Costco they have Avocado Oil at a pretty reasonable price....it was more than 16 oz and it was 9.99 a bottle.  I'd never seen it there before but want to go back and pick some up as it's a great price.



Nope, no Costco but WSP is right down the road from where I work so I can pick up can get a discount for doing so. Living in NE Ohio finally has it's perk :mrgreen:


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## roseb (Dec 30, 2013)

shunt2011 said:


> If you have a Costco they have Avocado Oil at a pretty reasonable price....it was more than 16 oz and it was 9.99 a bottle.  I'd never seen it there before but want to go back and pick some up as it's a great price.



Crying...our Costco carries a very limited amount of oil!  Definitely, no avocado!


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## roseb (Dec 30, 2013)

My mother was the one that told me about the poo bar being good for bathing.  She got confused and used the poo bar on her body and body bar on her head.  LOL


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## Obsidian (Dec 30, 2013)

Out of three local costco stores, only one carries the avocado.


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## cmzaha (Dec 30, 2013)

Our costco no longer carries avcocado. Cibaria soap supply does carry it. I am fortunate that they are within 40 miles and I pick up


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## fuzz-juzz (Dec 30, 2013)

They sound lovely! I'm yet to try avocado oil. I'm currently using lard and olive oil facial bar. I haven't used lard before and I can say I'm converted.


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## cmzaha (Dec 30, 2013)

I absolutely love lard soaps. Everytime I mention to my hubby that a soap is exceptional I go check the recipe and it is always a lard recipe. I do not make all soap the same recipe. I also love lard and canola together in soap


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## Dahila (Dec 30, 2013)

In Canada costco carry avocado 1 l for 10.99 and 1.5 kg  organic virgin coconut oil for 17.99 then olive oil 28.99 for 6 litres.  I do not think the co is good for soap.


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## Jaccart789 (Dec 30, 2013)

Almost all health food stores carry Avocado oil but its so pricey! I was just at one and for 1lb. 20.00! I buy for 4.00 a pound normally. I will wait for the next order. Thanks for sharing and telling us your results.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 30, 2013)

I've been showering with "shampoo" soap for a few days now, skipping my usual (handcrafted) lotion. So far so good -- I'm not remotely shriveling into an itchy, peeling, wrinkled mass of dry skin. At least not just yet ... but winter is definitely of a mind to stick around here in Iowa. 

On a related note, I wanted to tweak Genny's recipe to make it my own and to use it more for a face and dry skin soap. Most of my recipes have some coconut oil in them (cleansing = 8 to 12%), and sometimes even that seems too much for my skin in winter. My goals were to keep the 10% castor and 30% avocado that Genny used, keep the conditioning level as high as possible, and drop the cleansing to zero.

I like to use lard, and I generally don't stock shea or olive -- I use rice bran oil and/or high oleic safflower in place of olive. I don't normally have avocado either, but this recipe just begged me to use it, so I gave in and bought some special for the recipe. I also wanted to try pink (rose) clay as a colorant, just because I wanted to try it.

Here's Genny's shampoo (aka facial and dry skin) soap recipe: 
Castor Bean Oil 10.0%
Shea Butter 10.0%
Soybean Oil 10.0%
Avocado Oil 30.0%
Olive Oil 40.0%

Here's my recipe:
Castor Bean Oil 10.0%
Safflower Oil, High Oleic 17.1%
Avocado Oil 29.6%
Lard 43.3%

Superfat 5%.
Nonfat cows milk (from our local micro-dairy) for the water phase. 
3% ppo white sugar. 
Added 10 grams pink clay to 1500 g oils (this looked about like a heaping tablespoon of clay, but I didn't measure the volume.)
CPOP at 170 deg F for about an hour.

Got this made yesterday. The soap is harder coming out of the mold than Genny's (which I've made in the past). The recipe was fairly slow to trace (about 10 minutes = slow for me). Otherwise, nothing remarkable to report -- the finished soap doesn't zap, and it looks and lathers like soap (duh!). The bars are going to dry down to an attractive dusty-coral color. I'll have to see how it smells, looks, and lathers with time.

I told my mom about this batch and she seemed really interested in trying it out -- at a vibrant 83 years young, her skin tends to get dry too.


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## jaggedrande (Dec 30, 2013)

can anyone tell me what I could sub out for soybean oil?? or is that just shortening???


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## Obsidian (Dec 30, 2013)

No, its not shortening. Its the liquid vegetable oil you find in the grocery store.


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## jaggedrande (Dec 30, 2013)

oh ok, thanks, also how it this bar for  hardness, does it turn to mush after the first use?? also I ran it through the soapcalc and there is no cleansing is that normal for a shampoo bar??


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## Obsidian (Dec 30, 2013)

I've never had any issues with the bar getting mushy but I have a wire soap holder so the bar can dry between uses. If you let it sit in water, it would get soft.
Yes, shampoo bars have a low cleansing number which is why its so gentle for hair and dry winter skin. If you have oily skin/scalp this particular recipe might not be quite cleansing enough.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 31, 2013)

Genny's original recipe is admittedly on the somewhat softer side compared with most of my soaps. But if you allow the bar to cure and dry down and also let the soap dry properly between washings or showers, it will do fine. In my version, the lard increases the initial hardness and the overall insolubility of the soap.


Some comments...

Zero "cleansing" doesn't mean you won't get clean. It just means the soap does not have any myristic and lauric fatty acids in the recipe. 

Soap made from these fatty acids is highly soluble in hard/cold/salt water and is going to be an aggressive cleaner. If you're washing clothes in cold water, you'll probably want to make a soap high in lauric-myristic. Many folks make 100% coconut oil soap for household cleaning and clothes washing. The so-called "cleansing" number is the approximate % of lauric and myristic fatty acids in a recipe.

If you're washing yourself, you will want to design a recipe with just enough myristic-lauric soap to suit your skin -- anywhere from zero to whatever. Dry or sensitive skin needs less -- a lot less -- than oily skin. But even oily skin can be stripped of too much oil, so overdoing the myristic-lauric % can be harsh on even oily, tough skin.


Also, there's a difference between hardness and insolubility ... and a related tradeoff between abundant fluffy lather and moderate creamy lather. 

A 100% coconut oil or palm-kernel oil soap is hard, but soluble. It will dissolve quickly and make lots of fluffy lather. The myristic and lauric fatty acids in CO and PKO are responsible for this.

A 100% lard or tallow or palm soap is hard and insoluble. It will last a long time and make a moderate amount of whipped-cream lather. The palmitic and stearic fatty acids in lard/tallow/palm are responsible for this.


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## Dahila (Dec 31, 2013)

In the last days I am here I learned more from you ladies than in the last years searching the internet,  thank you, you are awesome


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## lpstephy85 (Dec 31, 2013)

deeanna said:


> genny's original recipe is admittedly on the somewhat softer side compared with most of my soaps. But if you allow the bar to cure and dry down and also let the soap dry properly between washings or showers, it will do fine. In my version, the lard increases the initial hardness and the overall insolubility of the soap.
> 
> 
> Some comments...
> ...


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## DeeAnna (Dec 31, 2013)

When I saw this, I laughed and just about snorted coffee up my nose!


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## lpstephy85 (Dec 31, 2013)

^^^ Please don't choke, we need your valuable wisdom!!

I had forgot I made Genny's recipe last month as I had it curing in a different spot than my normal soap rack. I did modify it a little:

Avocado- 35%
Castor- 10%
Olive- 30%
Shea Butter- 8%
Babassu- 17%

7% superfat with buttermilk added at trace and used aloe for the liquid. HP and forgot what I added for additional superfat oil after the cook. I had to give it a nice 8 week cure because it was so soft unmolding and took till now to be hard enough for use.

I used it on my hair and face: Hair foamed up nice and didn't tangle when combing with no conditioner or rinse. My hair is use to bar soap as I have been using my bars on it for a few months now so it will take some time to see if this recipe does anything, but I have always conditioned after each shower with Desert Essence. It was squeaky sounding and is air drying right now but where it is dry it does feel soft.

Face: I have crap for skin. Dry and flaky out of the shower but gets very oily very quick. My face doesn't care for moisturizers as it will break out after a couple of times doing so. It didn't feel as dry out the shower but was still flaky. I will see if it gets oily.


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## thinkativeone (Dec 31, 2013)

I would like to make this recipe, but same as jaggedrande need to know what I can sub out for the soybean oil to be able to make it. Could I add more of one of the other ingredients or do I need a different oil more similar in composition to soy? 

Unrelated side note: I make the 100% CO soap for washing dishes (little baking soda for if something was cooked with a lot of oil and it's a breeze) and for laundry detergent, also makes a great stain stick. I did a CPOP (had a different oven last batch, so it didn't do as well - hoping for a better end result this next time - partial gel). Anyway, I have not used lard soap since I am personally opposed to animal fats in my soap (just my preference) and I have found the CO soap to last very well. Not that I have anything to compare it to, it just seems like CPOP ought to increase the lifespan of soaps like that.


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## Obsidian (Jan 1, 2014)

Do you not want to use soybean oil or is their another reason for wanting to sub it?


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## Ellacho (Jan 1, 2014)

Wow~~Thank you so much for sharing the link!  This sounds great! I've been wishing and wanting for a nice shampoo bar and I can hardly wait to try this recipe! Thanks again!


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## thinkativeone (Jan 1, 2014)

If I can't sub something else or use more of something else in the recipe I will not be making it, unfortunately. Other than that one ingredient everything else sounds very nice. I like that it is all liquid oils aside from the shea. But it's not something I will be making right away. We just moved so I am having to delay buying more oils and butters for awhile, but when I can get them it's something I'd like to make providing it's flexible.


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## Obsidian (Jan 1, 2014)

I'm sure you can sub it, I'm just not sure with what. You can get a cheap bottle of soybean oil at any grocery store. Any cooking oil labeled as pure vegetable oil is nothing more then soybean. I use the wesson brand, costs about $3


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## thinkativeone (Jan 1, 2014)

I only cook or soap with certified organic oils (for eating only EVOO and CO), and do not use soy for a plethora of reasons - the vast majority of non-organic soy being GMO is a big one. Sometimes it is inevitable, but where I can control it as much as possible I choose not to consume or use it. Not looking to fight with anyone that does not share my views, but that's what I ascribe to. Eating only EVOO or CO for oils can be restrictive but it's not so bad. I might even try sunflower at some point but CO is best for cooking, EVOO is usually only eaten in things like dressing for us... We may be weird, I know, but oh well.


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## Obsidian (Jan 1, 2014)

Not fighting, I just though maybe you didn't know that soy is easy to find. I would replace it with sunflower or grapeseed, they seem to have similar qualities.


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## thinkativeone (Jan 1, 2014)

Didn't think you were....But just in case anybody wanted to hop on and debate I had to put in a disclaimer. Though I probably have nothing to worry about, I just don't like drama or even potential drama is all. Makes me tired.  As a vegetarian, soy IS way too easy to find, unfortunately!  But like I said, when it comes to consumption anyway, I try to limit it as much as I can - they put soy in EVERYTHING, including bread and desserts - mostly soy lecithin. Little sense in having it in body products IMPO, for me. 

Sunflower, if it's high-oleic, I can easily get organic. Grapeseed I don't see as often but people here seem to love it for some reason!  Thanks.


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## Lin (Jan 1, 2014)

I'm a veggie as well, and boy do I know that about soy. I also have hypothyroidism and there's literature about soy possibly contributing to causing or worsening it due to the similarity to human hormones. I can't help but wonder if the period as a new veggie with consuming too much soy contributed to my hypothyroid! So I've avoided soy most of the time for years now.


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## thinkativeone (Jan 1, 2014)

Lin said:


> I'm a veggie as well, and boy do I know that about soy. I also have hypothyroidism and there's literature about soy possibly contributing to causing or worsening it due to the similarity to human hormones. I can't help but wonder if the period as a new veggie with consuming too much soy contributed to my hypothyroid! So I've avoided soy most of the time for years now.



:wave: Yay, a fellow veggie! I need to get my thyroid checked. I do basal temping and my temperature does not seem to be too low, but it can jump around quite a bit and I have noticed some other symptoms. Your reasoning is exactly why I am uncomfortable eating it, and now wonder, if I do have thyroid issues, if that could be the culprit. I tried to eliminate it entirely, but that ended up being impossible! So now I stick to limiting it. I have been a veggie since I was a kid, and while I do eat dairy I prefer almond or coconut milk at home now - back then, everything was SOY milk. And soy was touted as a great health food. They are finding quite the opposite now, it is really rather scary considering how much of it I consumed on a daily basis before I knew any different! I try to be careful about superfood fads after that.


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## Hayley (Jan 1, 2014)

I too will not use soya in anything, I get very bad sinus pain/migraines if i consume it, so to me there is something not right about this oil, so do not need it in my soap,  could be the GM thing, being a gardener by trade, I do not like gm food production.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 1, 2014)

"...it just seems like CPOP ought to increase the lifespan of soaps like that...."

Yep, I agree -- CPOP usually causes the soap to go through a full gel and gelled CP soaps tend to be longer lasting because they don't absorb water as fast as non-gelled CP soaps. 

Cure time is also a factor in making a longer lasting soap -- less water in the soap bar makes the soap slower to dissolve. (For those wondering why, think about a sponge you might use in the kitchen -- a damp sponge soaks water up much faster than a dry one.)

"...what I can sub out for the soybean oil..."

You'd want to look at oils with fatty acid profiles roughly similar -- high in linoleic and then next highest in oleic. Possibilities might include sunflower, safflower, rice bran oil, pumpkin seed, hemp, and corn. I'm sure there are others. Soapcalc would be a good resource to check on this.


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## jaggedrande (Jan 3, 2014)

ok so the more I come on here, more I discover I don't know, lol.  I  went to the store to 4 different stores to try and find soybean oil  but  could not find  it, from what I have read olive oil is close, so I am going to up the olive oil in this and see what happens. so my next question is,  I was reading above that the less water the  longer the soap will stay so I always do a 38 % water discount is that wrong should I be doing less if I want my soap to be harder and longer lasting??


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## Obsidian (Jan 3, 2014)

You won't find soybean oil labeled as soybean oil, its labeled as vegetable oil. I didn't know that until I checked to ingredients on my wesson brand vegetable oil, 100% soybean.

Using more water doesn't mean you will have a soft bar, it just means it will take longer to dry out. I use full water and HP this recipe, last time I added sodium lactate and a little salt. There bars were rock hard after just a couple days.

If I do CP, I set the water as percent of oils to 33, not sure how that compares to water discount.


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## thinkativeone (Jan 6, 2014)

Hayley said:


> I too will not use soya in anything, I get very bad sinus pain/migraines if i consume it, so to me there is something not right about this oil, so do not need it in my soap,  could be the GM thing, being a gardener by trade, I do not like gm food production.



Me, too! We grow as much of our food as we can, organically.  

Obsidian, why 33% on the water? I have been using the standard set amout on soapcalc of 38% but would like to decrease it, isn't false trace an issue or was it something else? I am curious about this. Most of my soaps are based in a majority of OO and with CO since I don't use palm or animal oils...my list of things I don't use is expanding, but oh well - plenty of oils to play with! Due to the GM issue especially, no soy or corn due to cross-contamination even in certified organic oils, amongst other reasons. :smile:


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## Obsidian (Jan 6, 2014)

Lowering the water helps bring it to trace faster and will help the soap set up faster. Whenever I'm working with a softer recipe, I decrease the water. This won't cause false trace, that happens when you soap cool with hard oils.


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## boyago (Jan 6, 2014)

thinkativeone said:


> I only cook or soap with certified organic oils (for eating only EVOO and CO), and do not use soy for a plethora of reasons - the vast majority of non-organic soy being GMO is a big one. Sometimes it is inevitable, but where I can control it as much as possible I choose not to consume or use it. Not looking to fight with anyone that does not share my views, but that's what I ascribe to. Eating only EVOO or CO for oils can be restrictive but it's not so bad. I might even try sunflower at some point but CO is best for cooking, EVOO is usually only eaten in things like dressing for us... We may be weird, I know, but oh well.



Not sure where you are or if you order online but Essential Wholesale sells allot of certified organic products including soy oil if the GMO is the big thing.  When I am not feeling especially apathetic or broke that's where I go.  They also have organic castor.


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## thinkativeone (Jan 13, 2014)

boyago said:


> Not sure where you are or if you order online but Essential Wholesale sells allot of certified organic products including soy oil if the GMO is the big thing.  When I am not feeling especially apathetic or broke that's where I go.  They also have organic castor.



Thanks, I'll check them out! I just plain am not interested in soy though, 85% is GMO and even certified organic is deeply at risk for cross-contamination. Most certified organic corn (another huge GMO crop), for example, when tested is found to have cross-contaminated GMO corn in it. It's very hard to avoid when so much of these crops are GMO. Even so, with soy there are a lot of health concerns such as hormone disruption since soy is very estrogenic, not sure how that could translate to soap, but I still don't want it on my skin for that reason also. :Kitten Love:


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## paillo (Jan 13, 2014)

I won't use soybean oil either, concerns about GMO, rancidity, cross contamination, alarming amounts of land devoured for its production (same reason I won't use canola). I limit my consumption too, mostly due to concerns about endocrine disruption. I think you'd be fine subbing out high-oleic sunflower, easy to find and inexpensive. I subbed out the soy with broccoli seed and jojoba oils, both of which my hair loves.


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## Dahila (Jan 20, 2014)

The only places that carry no Gmo soybean oil in Canada is Saffire blue


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## thinkativeone (Jan 20, 2014)

paillo said:


> I won't use soybean oil either, concerns about GMO, rancidity, cross contamination, alarming amounts of land devoured for its production (same reason I won't use canola). I limit my consumption too, mostly due to concerns about endocrine disruption. I think you'd be fine subbing out high-oleic sunflower, easy to find and inexpensive. I subbed out the soy with broccoli seed and jojoba oils, both of which my hair loves.



Sweet, always a treat to meet another person with the same values! 

Where in the world did you find broccoli seed oil? That sounds very interesting!


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## green soap (Jan 21, 2014)

Thinkativeone here is another one that won't use soy oil....I do not think it would be harmful in soap, but soy and canola are prone to rancidity and I do not want to support any GMO crops.  (yes we grow our own veggies too...)

I have been leaving the soy out of Genny's bars since day one.  I use more avocado instead, so avocado oil is my first ingredient.  This makes them more expensive but they are wonderful dry hair (and dry skin) soaps.  

I just wanted to reassure you that the soy is not necessary in a shampoo bar!


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