# Why this batch changes color?



## Jose M (Jul 28, 2019)

Recipe in image below
I stirred this batch until trace
Left it to rest for a few days
The one on top is how it looks after I stir a little more with a fork
The one on the bottom is how it looks after I let it sit still again
Why does it change when I let it sit still?

Thanks in advance


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## Obsidian (Jul 28, 2019)

The lighter one is due to air being whipped into the soap. It changes back dark after the air has had time to come back out.


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## Jose M (Jul 28, 2019)

Oh that's amazing! 

thank you


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## Zany_in_CO (Jul 29, 2019)

It's actually going through saponification. Don't stir. Just cover it to keep the dust out and let it continue the process. Depending on the oils used, it will take 1-2 weeks for the process to be complete. 

Rather than using a crockpot (HP) I know quite a few soapers who make LS this way (CP). You simply bring the soap to trace and let it finish saponification over time. One advantage to this method is that you don't have to worry about cooking the soap too much, or too little. Just let it do its thing in its own time and when it tests "neutral" it's ready for dilution. Even then, you can store it for up to twelve weeks (starts to dry out) in the fridge for whenever it's convenient for you to dilute it.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jul 29, 2019)

Oopsie! My bad. I just looked at your recipe and it could use a little adjusting. Unfortunately, most online calculators are designed for hard bars... which means, you need to be armed with a little knowledge in order to successfully produce use-able liquid soap.

For one thing, once you know the KOH amount you need, the water amount needed is 3 X the KOH amount by weight. (2 X KOH can be used in some cases, but it is a more advanced technique for experienced LS-ers because it may cause the soap to bloat up and spill over the sides fairly quickly.)

This calculator allows you to do that. Choose *Water:Lye Ratio* and type in 3:1:
*http://www.soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.as*




The second thing is, the recommended superfat percent is somewhere between 0%-3% to prevent free oil from floating to the top of the finished LS.

Here's a link to a good site to learn more about making liquid soap:
*http://alaiynab.blogspot.com/2014/07/basic-beginner-liquid-soap-and.html*


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## Zany_in_CO (Jul 29, 2019)

Also, 100% sunflower oil may take a long time to fully saponify and also not lather well. Better to use 50% sunflower and 50% coconut oil for a denser LS with better lather.

ZANY’S NOTES ON WHAT TO EXPECT FROM VARIOUS OILS IN LS - From a variety of sources, including Catherine Failor

QUOTE: _It isn't a problem if your oils cause clouding. Some people LIKE the "creamier" look of LS. The problem is that if you are not experienced, you won't know if the clouding is from the formula or from it not saponifying properly. HTH Sharon_

OILS FOR CLEAR LS: Almond, Apricot Kernel, Canola, Castor, Coconut, Flax seed (linseed), Olive, Palm Kernel, Rosin, Soybean, Sunflower. (This list is by no means complete, only what I have gleaned so far.)

COCONUT - Use more than you do in hard bar formulas, 30% - 80%. Coconut oil is the mainstay of liquid soap for clarity, great lather, excellent cleansing, and is not drying when combined with at least 20% liquid oil. For a high foaming mild LS, use 50/50 Coconut/liquid oil(s) of choice. 100% coconut oil LS works well in hard or salt water but is not recommended for dry skin. NOTE: Borax will NOT thicken formulas that have more than 20% coconut oil.

Use LIQUID OILS at higher percents for mildness and clarity.

Keep HYDROGENATED OILS on the low side -- instead of solid soy use liquid.

Use CASTOR OIL for conditioning and super lather. 

AVOCADO OIL contains “unsaponifiables” but creates a clear LS with dense lather once the particles settle out.

BUTTERS contain “unsaponifiables” and should be kept below 2%. Instead of shea butter, try shea oil.

UNSAPONIFIABLES are a large group of compounds called plant steroids or sterolins. They soften the skin, have superior moisturizing effect on the upper layer of the skin and reduce scars. The sterolins in avocado oil have been found to diminish age spots. Oils with the highest unsaponifiables are shea butter, avocado oil, sesame oil, soybean oil and olive oil.

WAXES, including JOJOBA, should be kept at less than 2% to ensure transparency. The fatty alcohols in waxes do not dissolve and form a waxy, milky layer that floats at the top of the soap mix. 

LANOLIN - VERY low side of your formulations.

TALLOW/LARD/PALM make good cleansing, very mild soap with lasting thick bubbles, but the palmitic and stearic acids they contain produce opaque soap. Lard adds pearlescence to liquid soap. TIP: Make up a small batch of 100% tallow and add a small % to Liquid Soap for body and to help prevent thinning of gels during the summer months.

ROSIN at 5%-15% makes incredibly clear amber brown LS with awesome lather. Adds transparency and emolience and acts as a preservative as well. Try with 5% coconut oil and 80% liquid oil(s) of choice for high foaming shampoo. CAUTION: Can be sensitizing.


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## Dahila (Jul 29, 2019)

if this is CPLS your paste went through sanctification process it looks awesome , like Vaseline.  Check for zap and start to dillute .  It should be light soap
it takes like 4 hours for me not to zap and ready to add water ,  Some soapmakers like to keep paste for few days,  I make solution as needed too


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## Jose M (Jul 30, 2019)

Wow great information everyone!

So to add a few more details: this batch was made July 6, it should have completed saponification according to the comments here right?

@Zany_in_CO Undiluted, this paste is quite bubbly and lathery, the last dilution didnt end up so well though. I tried 20:1 water/paste this time and its better, however the high superfatting value may be to blame a lil bit. Also, the reason I'm using this oil is because I can get tons of it! It comes from deep fryers, so closing the loop on an otherwise wasteful industry is crucial. I'm betting its canola+sunflower, but I should probably dig deeper and find more exact ratios and types to be sure. Will read your link and get back to you.

@Dahila can't find whether CPLS is crock pot liquid soap or cold press LS. I warmed up the oil to 110°F to match the KOH solution, then started mixing. What do you mean by "Check for zap"?

Any recommendations on natural fragances? The kind where you just take leaves or flowers, do something to them and add them to the mix kind of thing?


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## Zany_in_CO (Jul 30, 2019)

Jose M said:


> this batch was made July 6, it should have completed saponification according to the comments here right?


Yes.


Jose M said:


> Undiluted, this paste is quite bubbly and lathery, the last dilution didnt end up so well though. I tried 20:1 water/paste this time and its better, however the high superfatting value may be to blame a lil bit.


As a general rule of thumb, LS that is high in Coconut Oil dilutes well at 40% soap to 60% water. LS that is high in Olive Oil (Sunflower falls in this category) dilutes well at 15-20% soap to 80-85% water. NOTE: This results in thin LS but has good lather that rinses easily. Thicken with salt brine. And yes, I agree, 7% SF may be to blame .


Jose M said:


> can't find whether CPLS is crock pot liquid soap or cold press LS.


I'm so happy you picked up on that! Here on SMF, CPLS is "crock pot liquid soap", but it's actually "HP" (Hot Process liquid soap using a crock pot.) Very few members use the term CP for Cold Process or even know that it's an alternative to HP or CP as in Crock Pot. LOL


Jose M said:


> I warmed up the oil to 110°F to match the KOH solution, then started mixing.


When making Cold Process liquid soap, temps are important. Combine when Oils are 160°F and Lye is 140°F and keep warm while bringing to trace for best results.


Jose M said:


> What do you mean by "Check for zap"?


To check your paste to see if it's fully saponified there are 3 choices:
1) Zap test -- The most popular method here on SMF. Use the "Search" feature top right of this page to find Irish Lass's thread on how to do it safely.
2) Soap-in-water test for clarity. (Won't work for this batch. 7% SF leaves too much oil unsaponified for a clear result.
3) Phenolphthalein drops -- IME & IMO the most reliable.
Here's a link that tells how to make sure your LS tests neutral (no excess lye) Scroll down to Step #11:   *http://alaiynab.blogspot.com/2013/03/how-i-create-liquid-soaps-and-shampoos.html#more*


Jose M said:


> Any recommendations on natural fragances? The kind where you just take leaves or flowers, do something to them and add them to the mix kind of thing?


Sorry, no. You can use botanicals infused in oil to color your LS but the fragrance doesn't come through. FOs or EOs are the way to go, EOs being the most natural.


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