# Uncommon Saponified Oils



## coconutoliveallergyp (May 4, 2021)

Anyone know where I can buy uncommon saponified oils? Other than the typical oils commonly used to make soap (coconut, olive oil, palm oil, shea butter, tallow/lard, soy, etc). Anyone know where I can buy liquid or bar soaps made out of something other than the common stuff like saponified grapeseed oil for example. I l like grapeseed oil the most.


----------



## Obsidian (May 4, 2021)

Unfortunately, grape seed oil soap is prone to rancidity. Are there other oils you can use?


----------



## ImpKit (May 4, 2021)

NDA sells a lot of different oils, including grapeseed. So you can buy the oils and make the soap yourself. But I don't know of any place that just sells soap made from the more uncommon oils, not only because of the rancidity problem @Obsidian mentions but also the cost. The uncommon ones are uncommon partially due to price...

Are you allergic to cocoa butter and sunflower/safflower/canola oils? Because you could try to get a semi-balanced recipe using a HO sunflower, safflower, or canola oil instead of olive and then use some cocoa butter to get the hard oil in there for hardness/longevity. And then a modest percentage of grapeseed to keep the chance of rancidity/DOS down.


----------



## coconutoliveallergyp (May 4, 2021)

ImpKit said:


> NDA sells a lot of different oils, including grapeseed. So you can buy the oils and make the soap yourself. But I don't know of any place that just sells soap made from the more uncommon oils, not only because of the rancidity problem @Obsidian mentions but also the cost. The uncommon ones are uncommon partially due to price...
> 
> Are you allergic to cocoa butter and sunflower/safflower/canola oils? Because you could try to get a semi-balanced recipe using a HO sunflower, safflower, or canola oil instead of olive and then use some cocoa butter to get the hard oil in there for hardness/longevity. And then a modest percentage of grapeseed to keep the chance of rancidity/DOS down.


No cocoa butter does not work for my skin. I've tried sunflower and that didn't work either... I've never tried canola but from a quick google search I see it has a high oleic content and my skin has problems with all oils high in oleic acid (which shea butter, coconut oil, olive oil all are high in oleic).


----------



## coconutoliveallergyp (May 4, 2021)

Obsidian said:


> Unfortunately, grape seed oil soap is prone to rancidity. Are there other oils you can use?


What do you know about passionfruit oil and apricot kernel and peach oil? My skin likes those


----------



## cmzaha (May 4, 2021)

Are you sure you are still allergic to all those oils once they saponify into soap? If you make soap not superfatted you will not have a lot of the free oils left you will only have soap. Your skin may like the above oils as oils but when they become soap the game changes.


----------



## coconutoliveallergyp (May 4, 2021)

To Impkit: No cocoa butter does not work for my skin. I've tried sunflower and that didn't work either... I've never tried canola but from a quick google search I see it has a high oleic content and my skin has problems with all oils high in oleic acid (which shea butter, coconut oil, olive oil all are high in oleic). 

To cmzaha: I'm pretty sure. I have allergic reaction everytime I use soaps w those ingredients.


----------



## KiwiMoose (May 4, 2021)

coconutoliveallergyp said:


> To Impkit: No cocoa butter does not work for my skin. I've tried sunflower and that didn't work either... I've never tried canola but from a quick google search I see it has a high oleic content and my skin has problems with all oils high in oleic acid (which shea butter, coconut oil, olive oil all are high in oleic).
> 
> To cmzaha: I'm pretty sure. I have allergic reaction everytime I use soaps w those ingredients.


Just check the other ingredients too in case there's something common to all the soap you've used - such as cocomidopropyl betaine.  It may be something else entirely (not the oils per se).

If you know it's high oleic then you could try something along the lines of babassu, rice bran oil, avocado oil, castor oil.  It may not be the best soap, but it might be best for you. Apricot kernel oil is high in oleic.

I'd be interested to know which soaps you have used before throwing all the babies ( the good soap-making oils) out with the bathwater - it could be any number of things that are causing the allergy.  Are you able to eat coconut/olive/palm/animals/soy etc?  If so, then it might not be the oil, but rather the constitution or qualities of the soap that bear exploring.


----------



## coconutoliveallergyp (May 5, 2021)

KiwiMoose said:


> Just check the other ingredients too in case there's something common to all the soap you've used - such as cocomidopropyl betaine.  It may be something else entirely (not the oils per se).
> 
> If you know it's high oleic then you could try something along the lines of babassu, rice bran oil, avocado oil, castor oil.  It may not be the best soap, but it might be best for you. Apricot kernel oil is high in oleic.
> 
> I'd be interested to know which soaps you have used before throwing all the babies ( the good soap-making oils) out with the bathwater - it could be any number of things that are causing the allergy.  Are you able to eat coconut/olive/palm/animals/soy etc?  If so, then it might not be the oil, but rather the constitution or qualities of the soap that bear exploring.



It's interesting you ask, because no I am not allergic to any of those oils when it comes to eating. I use olive oil almost everyday for cooking, and I love coconut milkshakes. Except for soy though, I have a complete allergy to soy and peanuts, walnuts, etc. And as far as the quality of soap, yes that's something I've wondered. But I am not sure how to begin with understanding how to find soaps made in the best quality.


----------



## KiwiMoose (May 5, 2021)

coconutoliveallergyp said:


> It's interesting you ask, because no I am not allergic to any of those oils when it comes to eating. I use olive oil almost everyday for cooking, and I love coconut milkshakes. Except for soy though, I have a complete allergy to soy and peanuts, walnuts, etc. And as far as the quality of soap, yes that's something I've wondered. But I am not sure how to begin with understanding how to find soaps made in the best quality.


Well in the case I suspect it's not the oils themselves, but how the soap is made.  Why don't you ask one of lovely peeps on here who lives close to send you a sample bar to try?  Have you tried hand made soap before, or just commercial brands?


----------



## coconutoliveallergyp (May 5, 2021)

Yes I've tried quite a few homemade soaps on Etsy. Most recently tried a palm oil soap from there and it didn't work for me. I know eventually I'll figure things out. Sometimes I feel like the problem is that I'm just not asking for the right thing. The solution is out there I just don't know what to ask for.


----------



## Arimara (May 5, 2021)

How many of the soaps that you tried had no additives whatsoever? By that, mean no fragrance, colorings, added sugars, etc.


----------



## coconutoliveallergyp (May 5, 2021)

The list is endless. I've tried pure coconut oil soap just coconut oil made with lye and no extra additives. I think I got that from Chagrin Valley and it made my scalp the itchiest I have ever experienced in my life. coconut oil itself and coconut oil soap gives me terrible acne. I've tried pure olive oil soaps, pure palm oil soaps no glycerin... liquid soaps, liquid shea butter (black soap) from Alaffia products. Shea butter is in everything these days and it works for most people but I always get an allergic reaction to it.


----------



## FragranceGuy (May 6, 2021)

coconutoliveallergyp said:


> Anyone know where I can buy uncommon saponified oils? Other than the typical oils commonly used to make soap (coconut, olive oil, palm oil, shea butter, tallow/lard, soy, etc). Anyone know where I can buy liquid or bar soaps made out of something other than the common stuff like saponified grapeseed oil for example. I l like grapeseed oil the most.



Are you looking for soap ingredients that work for your skin, or are you looking for ingredients to make your own soap? If you look at a list of ingredients as a purchaser (without percentages) I imagine you’ll get a huge range of soap qualities, whether they contain the same oils, many that won’t work for you. If you’re trying to make soap for yourself, then the oils by name are probably less important bc you’re in control of the fatty acids. You know that high olenic soaps don’t seem to mesh with you, so maybe keeping olive oil below 20% of your oils or completely eliminating it is a good option. If grapeseed oil does seem to work wonders for your skin, then maybe higher linoleic soaps are your jam. You referenced lard as being a popular oil. Are you specifically looking for a vegan soap?


----------



## ImpKit (May 6, 2021)

So... just gotta ask: have you tried working this problem out with an allergist and / or dermatologist? With the list of oils you've experienced issues with, it may be better to seek a medical opinion for a hypoallergenic and possibly medicated option.


----------



## coconutoliveallergyp (May 6, 2021)

Fragrance Guy: I'm mainly looking for what works for my skin. Believe it or not I have tried soaps with a lesser percent of olive oil and it doesn't seem to make a difference and still causes a reaction. And vegan soaps are best for me because I've tried emu oil soaps and emu oil and other animal-based oils and milks (i.e., goats milk soap). Still not quite right for my skin.

ImpKit: I have seen an allergist before but he only tested me for food allergies and confirmed what I already knew. But I never thought about getting tested for what my skin can tolerate. I will consider that. He gave me Vanicream samples if you've ever heard of that brand which is parrafin/petroleum based and my skin hates anything petroleum as well. Petroleum is usually the base of everything medicated. I've tried other otc soaps like Sebamed, CeraVe, Cetaphil... none of it works and it's all coconut derived or petroleum derived.


----------



## Quanta (May 6, 2021)

coconutoliveallergyp said:


> Fragrance Guy: I'm mainly looking for what works for my skin. Believe it or not I have tried soaps with a lesser percent of olive oil and it doesn't seem to make a difference and still causes a reaction. And vegan soaps are best for me because I've tried emu oil soaps and emu oil and other animal-based oils and milks (i.e., goats milk soap). Still not quite right for my skin.
> 
> ImpKit: I have seen an allergist before but he only tested me for food allergies and confirmed what I already knew. But I never thought about getting tested for what my skin can tolerate. I will consider that. He gave me Vanicream samples if you've ever heard of that brand which is parrafin/petroleum based and my skin hates anything petroleum as well. Petroleum is usually the base of everything medicated. I've tried other otc soaps like Sebamed, CeraVe, Cetaphil... none of it works and it's all coconut derived or petroleum derived.


Sounds to me like you definitely need to see a dermatologist. You mentioned an allergy to shea butter, but it isn't even technically possible to be allergic to that (sensitive to, yes, but not a true allergy). Based on that fact, I think you have something else going on and a dermatologist will be able to figure it out. 

If you have widespread itching over your whole body, based on what doctors have told me regarding my own case, it's something internal going on with one of your organs, and not anything to do with your skin at all. It just manifests in your skin. Might want to see your primary care doctor to ask about testing for that, too, if that's what you're experiencing.


----------



## ImpKit (May 6, 2021)

I really want to second a dermatologist, especially if an allergist didn't look into skin-related allergies.

Because your options are, and this is from a novice soaper and someone NOT in the medical field, becoming swiftly limiting with soap. You've eliminated, basically, all the options for "cleansing" oils (coconut, and for safety PKO & babassu because of the close relation and that an allergy to one increases probability of an allergy to all). You've eliminated more or less all of the non-cleansing hard oils: lard, cocoa butter, shea butter, and by extension for safety mango seed & other butters (most share a number of proteins and any of those could be the trigger). And you've eliminated high oleic oils.

You've pointed out a couple mid oleic/linoleic oils that work for you... but the problem is if you look into general recommendations, "higher" linoleic/linolenic content in a soap increases not only probability of rancidity, but my understanding is it can accelerate the timeline for rancidity. 

And most soapers who do this professionally won't be willing to touch making a product for you for a few reasons:
1) Making a "higher" linoleic product decreases the shelf life, increases rancidity, and means the product isn't one they can stand by ethically.
2) Making a "higher" linoleic product can have repercussions for their product liability insurance if you (or someone else) were to submit a claim if, or rather when, the soap went rancid.
3) With all of your allergies, making a product for you puts them at risk of liability if it triggers *anything*.

All of that places the burden of making a product squarely on your shoulders, which I'm sure is no surprise. You ARE _here_ after all...

But with the increased risk and timeline for rancidity that a high to mid linoleic soap will carry... realistically I see that you'd be needing to make a SINGLE (maybe two) bar(s) of soap once every week to three weeks (depending on size, how long it can cure, shower performance, etc) and then IMMEDIATELY picking up the new bar as soon as cure is done. Trying to make in more bulk than that means you run the real risk of rancid soap / DOS before you get to it, and that means wastage. Lack of hard oils means that the bars sit in molds longer, and may mean longer cure times (a true castille soap requires 6 months plus and some people on here say 12 months plus). So it's also possible that you can't even realistically GET to the soap before it starts to go rancid. Antioxidants like vitamin E or ROE help but all they do is slow/delay oxidation which the source, at least as I understand it, of rancidity.

So... realistically, I think you need to work with a dermatologist and/or other medical professionals to address the issues medically. You might not have an allergy to oleic oils, for example. It could be a different adverse reaction from an underlying condition that needs to be treated, as suggested by @Quanta.


----------



## Obsidian (May 6, 2021)

coconutoliveallergyp said:


> To Impkit: No cocoa butter does not work for my skin. I've tried sunflower and that didn't work either... I've never tried canola but from a quick google search I see it has a high oleic content and my skin has problems with all oils high in oleic acid (which shea butter, coconut oil, olive oil all are high in oleic).
> 
> To cmzaha: I'm pretty sure. I have allergic reaction everytime I use soaps w those ingredients.



What kind of allergic reaction are you having, if you don't mind sharing?
I'm wondering if you have just used poorly made soap and its too harsh?


----------



## coconutoliveallergyp (May 7, 2021)

ImpKid: Thank you for your response. I understand that I am highly limited into what I can make and I have learned that high linoleic oils do not make for good soaps so trying that is out of the question. And I am a super novice soap maker. So I know if trained soap makers can't do it then I would have even a harder time. I will definitely check out an allergenist to see if I can get some help.


----------



## coconutoliveallergyp (May 7, 2021)

Obsidian: Okay, don't judge me but I have uncommon reactions. I get a skin-crawling sensation every time I use anything coconut based. I feel it esp in my fingers and toes. One time I tried a shower gel from a homemade business and felt that sensation all over the lower part of my leg. It was disturbing... and I think it was a coconut based shower gel. Then I get pimples from anything olive-oil based. Coconut oil gives pimples, too. Shea butter dries my skin out in a way where my hands sound like rubbing sandpaper together and I can snag mittens, gloves, towels if I use it. It also causes an allergic reaction if I use it as a lip balm for example, my lips and tongue start burning... sometimes I get dyshidrosis, that happens a lot with petrolem-based lotions (little bumps all over my fingers). Cocoa butter causes pimples. And as ImpKid stated, a lot of these oils/butters share proteins so I have pretty much a negative reaction to other things related to them. so I've tried mango butter, kokum butter, cupuacu butter and got these same negative reactions... I guess my problem could be internal, never really thought about that.


----------



## Quanta (May 7, 2021)

coconutoliveallergyp said:


> Obsidian: Okay, don't judge me but I have uncommon reactions. I get a skin-crawling sensation every time I use anything coconut based. I feel it esp in my fingers and toes. One time I tried a shower gel from a homemade business and felt that sensation all over the lower part of my leg. It was disturbing... and I think it was a coconut based shower gel. Then I get pimples from anything olive-oil based. Coconut oil gives pimples, too. Shea butter dries my skin out in a way where my hands sound like rubbing sandpaper together and I can snag mittens, gloves, towels if I use it. It also causes an allergic reaction if I use it as a lip balm for example, my lips and tongue start burning... sometimes I get dyshidrosis, that happens a lot with petrolem-based lotions (little bumps all over my fingers). Cocoa butter causes pimples. And as ImpKid stated, a lot of these oils/butters share proteins so I have pretty much a negative reaction to other things related to them. so I've tried mango butter, kokum butter, cupuacu butter and got these same negative reactions... I guess my problem could be internal, never really thought about that.


Normally "pimples" means acne to most people. Do you mean acne, or are you referring to hives?

And what exactly do you mean by "coconut based", because that can refer to either a true soap made with coconut oil, or surfactants (i.e. synthetic detergents) which are mostly made out of coconut these days.

Your dry-skin reaction to shea butter, is this if you use just straight shea butter, or is this a lotion that has some in it?

How many different shea butter lip balms have you tried from different manufacturers? Because what you describe is what happens when someone uses fragrance oil in lip balm instead of lip-safe flavor oil. I have seen negative customer reviews for fragrance oil where the reviewer used it in lip balm and complained that it made their lips burn, and when I checked the safe usage limits for the oil, it wasn't approved for lip use. If you bought something homemade at a craft fair or farmer's market, I wonder how lip safe it really was. 

Regarding the protein content of fats, while the proteins may be shared between members of the same family of plants, usually in the fats that are extracted from those plants there is very little protein remaining. Usually allergies are your body's reaction to protein, so something with almost no protein is unlikely to be reacted to. There are zero verified cases of allergies to shea butter for instance. Usually what is thought to be an allergy to shea or cocoa butter turns out to be an allergy to something else.

Definitely go see your primary care doctor, and see a dermatologist as well.


----------



## ImpKit (May 7, 2021)

Quanta said:


> How many different shea butter lip balms have you tried from different manufacturers? Because what you describe is what happens when someone uses fragrance oil in lip balm instead of lip-safe flavor oil. I have seen negative customer reviews for fragrance oil where the reviewer used it in lip balm and complained that it made their lips burn, and when I checked the safe usage limits for the oil, it wasn't approved for lip use. If you bought something homemade at a craft fair or farmer's market, I wonder how lip safe it really was.


I have not (yet) made any lip balms nor have I purchased any from hand crafters. So while I was aware of the existence of flavor oils versus fragrance oils, I hadn't looked into the differences. This information is very helpful, thank you!


----------



## Zany_in_CO (May 7, 2021)

@coconutoliveallergyp You have my deepest sympathy.  You sound a lot like me 15 years ago. My dermatologist recommended Alepo Soap which was available at the drug store back then. It stunk to high heaven! That's when I embarked on my soap making journey.


coconutoliveallergyp said:


> Anyone know where I can buy uncommon saponified oils?


Am I reading your request correctly? You want *saponified oils*? To do what?


coconutoliveallergyp said:


> Anyone know where I can buy liquid or bar soaps made out of something other than the common stuff like saponified grapeseed oil for example.


I've had a few customer requests that I've made for people along the way. For example, I made 100% almond oil (liquid) shampoo that turned out better than expected! Quite nice, actually, and had good, if not copious, lather. I imagine I could try the same with grapeseed oil, which by the way, I'm also quite fond of... I use it in lotions and I cook with it daily. 
FYI: I normally add antioxidants ROE (Rosemary Oleoresin Extract) and vitamin E to all my oils to extend shelf life and to prevent rancidity.


coconutoliveallergyp said:


> What do you know about passionfruit oil and apricot kernel and peach oil? My skin likes those


I'm familiar with Apricot Kernel Oil. It is a lovely addition to LS, lotions & balms. I've seen it used in CP bars as well.

ETA: What about PKO (Palm Kernel Oil) and Palm? Are you allergic to them?


----------



## coconutoliveallergyp (May 7, 2021)

Yes, by pimples I mean acne not hives thank goodness. As yes, as you stated so many soaps are derived from coconuts. For example, I recently tried cocoglucoside, cocamidopropyl betaine, and decyl glucoside which is coconut based. Many soaps ending in sulfate are derived from the coconut. And as far as shea butter, I've tried soo many. Unable to remember them all but Shea Moisture products, TGIN products, burt's bees, Palmer's.

I'm seeking saponified oils to wash up basically, take a shower. I'm tired of showering and getting all these problems that come with it. And yes palm oil gives me huge problems unfortunately. I just used a pure palm oil soap from Etsy and it caused a bad reaction. But that's great you make almond oil liquid soap. It sounds wonderful. I would request that if it weren't for my allergy to nuts


----------



## Quanta (May 7, 2021)

coconutoliveallergyp said:


> Yes, by pimples I mean acne not hives thank goodness. As yes, as you stated so many soaps are derived from coconuts. For example, I recently tried cocoglucoside, cocamidopropyl betaine, and decyl glucoside which is coconut based. Many soaps ending in sulfate are derived from the coconut. And as far as shea butter, I've tried soo many. Unable to remember them all but Shea Moisture products, TGIF products, burt's bees, Palmer's.
> 
> I'm seeking saponified oils to wash up basically, take a shower. I'm tired of showering and getting all these problems that come with it. And yes palm oil gives me huge problems unfortunately. I just used a pure palm oil soap from Etsy and it caused a bad reaction. But that's great you make almond oil liquid soap. It sounds wonderful. I would request that if it weren't for my allergy to nuts


As far as I know, acne is not an allergic reaction. Allergies can make it worse, and I have heard of food allergies exacerbating existing acne, but it isn't caused by something coming into contact with the skin. There are conditions that resemble acne, and one of those might be what you have. 

I really think that since you have tried so many things and nothing is working, you really have something else going on. I don't think it's likely that you are really allergic to literally everything, but rather that something is going on that causes your skin to react when _anything at all_ touches it, which is different from having an immune system response to all those things.

Go see your doctor!


----------



## Zany_in_CO (May 7, 2021)

coconutoliveallergyp said:


> I'm seeking saponified oils to wash up basically, take a shower. I'm tired of showering and getting all these problems that come with it. And yes palm oil gives me huge problems unfortunately. I just used a pure palm oil soap from Etsy and it caused a bad reaction. But that's great you make almond oil liquid soap. It sounds wonderful. I would request that if it weren't for my allergy to nuts


It's highly unlikely that you will find saponified oils that you are not allergic to anywhere. Your only option in that case is to either find someone to make something for you or, more likely, make it yourself.

Do you have any negative reaction to therapeutic grade castor oil? It is a known "healer", has a long shelf life, and adds lather to a formula. Walmart has it in 2 oz. bottles. Combined with grapeseed oil, it should make a nice hair & body shampoo that rinses off cleanly.


----------



## earlene (May 8, 2021)

Red Turkey Oil (aka Sulfated Castor Oil) may be something for you to try.  It is the only water dispersable oil, a surfactant, and therefore MAYBE would not cause pimples because it is not likely to clog the pores (being water soluble.)  It also emulsifies other oils.  But by itself, it cannot make a soap because it is no longer saponifiable.

It is NOT the same thing as regular Castor Oil, but is transformed using a method described in these two links. (*Link 1*; *Link 2*.)  Notice the use of sodium hydroxide as well as a catalyst, which in this case is EDTA (something many of us use to prevent soap scum and to facilitate reduction of soap turning rancid) and sulfuric acid and a controlled temperature during the process.  It's not something we would do at home, but the end product, Red Turkey Oil (NO TURKEYS ARE USED - it's just a name) is easily obtained through many soap supply vendors.

I get mine from Soaper's Choice:  CASTOR TURKEY RED | Soaper's Choice

You could use it in formulations as mentioned *here*, and substitute the other suggested oils with the ones you said your skin does not react to. For example, the Honey Ginger Sugar Scrub - Humblebee & Me calls for Olive Oil; you could use Grapeseed oil instead.

I use it in a LS that I use for shaving my legs (with a foamer).  But the recipe calls for lanolin and other things you may not want to use, so it's probably not one you'd care to look at.

Before jumping in and buying any, read the material and do a bit more research before deciding if you want to experiment with RTO.


----------



## coconutoliveallergyp (May 8, 2021)

Thanks for the castor oil suggestions. I have tried black castor oil on my skin, it's quite thick and difficult to use as a moisturizer. My skin seems to like it just not on my face as it causes acne. The lighter colored castor oil kind dries me out though.

And I have heard of castor red turkey, yep from Humble Bee and Me is where I first learned of it. I've done some research about it, it seems like it's quite strong. Apparently due to it's blend with sulfuric acid, it needs to be neutralized with an alkaline substance such as a nitrosamine and I know it's not good to deal with amines on skin as it can be carcinogenic. Perhaps a simple saponified castor oil would be better for me.


----------



## coconutoliveallergyp (May 11, 2021)

Zany_in_CO: I saw your suggestion for Aleppo soap and I'm thinking of buying it online to give it a go. I have never tried it because of the problems w/olive oil but I figure it's worth a shot. It seems like it's different from regular olive oil soaps somehow. Although I am seeing a lot of complaints that it smells like burnt tires hehe...


----------



## cmzaha (May 11, 2021)

Allergies can be extremely tricky. You can eat something and Not have an allergic reaction because it changes in the system but will act differently a-topically, which is why allergy testing to foods will not produce the same results as testing for skin allergies. 

You also should make small samples of single oil soaps that you suspect you are allergic to with different SF's for every single oil. Start with no superfat and go up to maybe 7% keeping good records for each sample, using all the same additives. I personally would only use water and no additives you want to rule out the oils. As Obsidian mentioned it might be your soap is simply too harsh as CO soap is. While this may be a bit of work it is truly the only way you will rule out if you are truly allergic to a particular ingredient in soap. As also mentioned some people are sensitive to high Oleic Acid soaps which I personally hate.


----------



## Zany_in_CO (May 11, 2021)

coconutoliveallergyp said:


> Zany_in_CO: I saw your suggestion for Aleppo soap and I'm thinking of buying it online to give it a go.


I would NOT recommend it for you since it is mostly olive oil with a little bay laurel oil thrown in.


cmzaha said:


> You also should make small samples of single oil soaps that you suspect you are allergic to with different SF's for every single oil. Start with no superfat and go up to maybe 7% keeping good records for each sample, using all the same additives. I personally would only use water and no additives you want to rule out the oils.


Good advice as always, but I am  beginning to suspect our new friend is also allergic to making it herself.


----------



## coconutoliveallergyp (May 11, 2021)

"our new friend is also allergic to making it herself. " that was rude, & wasn't necessary to say... I don't appreciate that


----------



## Zany_in_CO (May 11, 2021)

coconutoliveallergyp said:


> "our new friend is also allergic to making it herself. " that was rude, & wasn't necessary to say... I don't appreciate that


Aw, I am SO sorry. I didn't mean to be rude, just teasing... please accept my apologies. 
It's just that, _from my point of view_, i.e., _wanting to help in whatever way I can_, you don't seem to be interested in making "saponified oils" although that's where I and others can be the most help. It's also the best way to get exactly what you want. It's also the point of joining SMF, I might add.

Bottom Line: Do you or do you not want to learn to make _"saponified oils"_?

ETA: When I was in your shoes way back when, and I discovered that I could learn to make soap, I didn't waste any time doing just that. I am forever grateful to my mentors for being there to help me accomplish my goal. It's been a fun ride. I'd hate to see you miss out on what could be a very satisfying experience.


----------



## Aromasuzie (May 11, 2021)

I am sorry to hear about the skin issues you have to deal with.  Have you tried other products besides soap?  I went through a phase of using powders to cleanse myself, but I do like my scrubby ingredients.  I've used rice flour mixed with water or could could add a hydrosol like rose instead.  If you want to use oil, you could make yourself a sugar scrub with oils you know you don't react to.  I'm a great fan of jojoba oil as its a liquid wax and it's not a nut oil either.  It does have oleic acid 10-13% but sometimes some components actions are buffered by other ingredients.  I see you've tried Apricot Kernel oil, that has a higher oleic acid % than jojoba.  I agree with others on grapeseed oil having issues with rancidity.  Maybe you need to use something else to allow your skin to settle down before trying a soap product and in the meantime look at making 1 soap oils that you know haven't caused issues in the past.  It least you know exactly what is in them.  They may not make the best soap for if you want to wash with soap, it's probably your best option.  Good luck on your journey.


----------



## coconutoliveallergyp (May 11, 2021)

No that's not true at all... I do want and am learning how to make my own soap. It's just that it takes time before the whole process is complete. First I have to figure out what oils/butters to use since I'm so sensitive to so many of them and the ones I can use cause rancidity. I have to first buy utensils, bowls, etc and lye, which takes a few days to arrive once ordered. Then I have to make my 1st batch which if it's anything like cooking probably won't come out right the first time. And then there's a long curing process, 4-6wks for most bars. So in the meantime I'm still on the lookout for a great soap to buy because I can see that it's going to take a while before I successfully make my own bar. It's not like once I start making it that's the end of my problems. And then I still have to make sense of all of the language. For example, people have been saying "you can superfat it with xyz," I don't know what that means at all... So I'm still trying to see if I can find the easy way out before I fully commit to soapmaking. 

Aromasuzie: I appreciate your suggestion. I actually have some rice flour sitting around that I have been wanting to get rid of. And I happen to have rose hydrosol too in the freezer. Thanks for reminding me, I'm gonna try that combination.


----------



## ImpKit (May 11, 2021)

Search Royalty Soaps on YouTube and look for a playlist called The Royal Creative Academy. It covers the basics of soap making, including providing some equipment lists / recommendations for supplies that can be acquired fairly cost effectively. It also provides links to a couple pages of supplemental reading that help explain the basics, including terminology, or soap making. And it's all available for free, so you don't need to invest in anything to learn.

As for superfat... that is a term referring to intentionally not using enough lye to saponify all of your oils. In so doing you leave a percentage of the oils as free floating / suspended in the soap. A lower superfat percentage can help reduce the chance of rancidity since those unsaponified oils are more prone to going rancid. Lower superfats can also create a slightly firmer bar of soap. A typical superfat is around 5% but some types of recipes, particularly high coconut oil soaps, will recommend higher superfats to offset the cleansing strength of the base oils.


----------



## Aromasuzie (May 11, 2021)

@coconutoliveallergyp I absolutely love rose hydrosol, I use it as a cleanser/toner for my face.  Yes, soap making is rather scary when you first start, but it can be addictive.  I usually use my nose when it comes to rancidity, it might be better to buy small batches of grapeseed oil to make the soap and to use quickly once cured.  I had a quick google and couldn't find anyone that mentioned using it as a one oil soap.  Have you tried rice bran oil? Lovin soap studio made a one oil soap out of it, didn't sound too bad.

The only other suggestion to make would be to try tallow or lard, but understand if you're not willing to try for ethical reasons.  I know a lot of people with oil issues find soaps made with either of these ingredients help their skin dramatically.


----------



## cmzaha (May 11, 2021)

coconutoliveallergyp said:


> Obsidian: Okay, don't judge me but I have uncommon reactions. I get a skin-crawling sensation every time I use anything coconut based. I feel it esp in my fingers and toes. One time I tried a shower gel from a homemade business and felt that sensation all over the lower part of my leg. It was disturbing... and I think it was a coconut based shower gel. Then I get pimples from anything olive-oil based. Coconut oil gives pimples, too. Shea butter dries my skin out in a way where my hands sound like rubbing sandpaper together and I can snag mittens, gloves, towels if I use it. It also causes an allergic reaction if I use it as a lip balm for example, my lips and tongue start burning... sometimes I get dyshidrosis, that happens a lot with petrolem-based lotions (little bumps all over my fingers). Cocoa butter causes pimples. And as ImpKid stated, a lot of these oils/butters share proteins so I have pretty much a negative reaction to other things related to them. so I've tried mango butter, kokum butter, cupuacu butter and got these same negative reactions... I guess my problem could be internal, never really thought about that.


Keep in mind a lot of butter including Shea has latex properties and a person allergic to latex can have problems with shea. I absolutely cannot use shea straight on my skin or in lotions but I can use high shea soaps that are not high superfatted soaps. My soaps are usually superfatted around 2% so I do not have a lot of free oil in my soap. As for the skin-crawling sensation, it can come from high CO soap, or even high Oleic Acid soap for some people. It mostly depends on formulas, which is why you have to put in the time to make your own. Most sellers are on the superfat wagon and higher CO for lather. Many of my soaps are also low CO 10-15% depending on who I am making them for. When targeting my men's market I would use 17-18% CO/PKO for women 12-15% average. All would be in the 2% superfat range some 1%. Again I will mention you are dealing with soap, not the original triglycerides, which have been transformed into glycerin and soap once they have been broken during the course of saponification and not the oil itself.


----------



## MGM (May 12, 2021)

This probably isn't the right board to post this thought on.... but soap isn't actually necessary to good hygiene <duck>. Or, if you do want to use a soap or a detergent bar, you don't have to use it on your whole body. 
I'm currently reading _Clean_  by James Hamblin, which is very interesting. It sounds like your skin/health issues are significant enough that you may need workarounds to what the rest of us use every day. That's fine; we all have "normal" things that we just can't do (eat gluten, eat nuts, see without glasses, etc.etc.). Maybe you need a super special soap, or maybe you need other ways of cleaning and then moisturizing afterward.


----------



## Zany_in_CO (May 12, 2021)

Aromasuzie said:


> I usually use my nose when it comes to rancidity, it might be better to buy small batches of grapeseed oil to make the soap and to use quickly once cured.  I had a quick google and couldn't find anyone that mentioned using it as a one oil soap.


I offered to make it. 


> Post # 24
> I've had a few customer requests that I've made for people along the way. For example, I made 100% almond oil (liquid) shampoo that turned out better than expected! Quite nice, actually, and had good, if not copious, lather. I imagine I could try the same with grapeseed oil, which by the way, I'm also quite fond of... I use it in lotions and I cook with it daily.


----------



## Quanta (May 12, 2021)

Aromasuzie said:


> @coconutoliveallergyp I absolutely love rose hydrosol, I use it as a cleanser/toner for my face.  Yes, soap making is rather scary when you first start, but it can be addictive.  I usually use my nose when it comes to rancidity, it might be better to buy small batches of grapeseed oil to make the soap and to use quickly once cured.  I had a quick google and couldn't find anyone that mentioned using it as a one oil soap.  Have you tried rice bran oil? Lovin soap studio made a one oil soap out of it, didn't sound too bad.


Here's a page detailing lots of single oil soaps, and grapeseed oil and rice bran oil soaps are both there. Rice bran oil makes a great soap, and grapeseed oil makes a terrible soap, apparently.






						Single Oil Swap Results - www.zensoaps.com
					

Ingredients contained in our handmade soaps. Zen and zensoaps, based in Orlando, Florida, we make the finest possible handmade soaps, sprays, body products, using the best ingredients. Feel the difference.



					www.zensoaps.com


----------



## coconutoliveallergyp (May 12, 2021)

ImpKit: Is this the correct Royalty Vids? 
Do you know of any good videos that discuss superfat?

Aromasuzie: Rice bran oil's a bit drying to my skin and hair too. But I am curious about Lovin Soap Studio maybe they have other tutorials that would work for me. Is that on YT as well?
And I don't have an ethical problem with tallow or lard at all but I've used one called Grandma's Lye Soap which gave me an allergic reaction, and I've bought a few lard soaps from homemade sellers on Etsy and those didn't work out either. From charts I see that lard and tallow are high in those fats my skin doesn't like such as oleic acid, the monosaturated and saturated fat so that kind of explains it.


----------



## ImpKit (May 12, 2021)

coconutoliveallergyp said:


> ImpKit: Is this the correct Royalty Vids?
> Do you know of any good videos that discuss superfat?
> 
> Aromasuzie: Rice bran oil's a bit drying to my skin and hair too. But I am curious about Lovin Soap Studio maybe they have other tutorials that would work for me. Is that on YT as well?
> And I don't have an ethical problem with tallow or lard at all but I've used one called Grandma's Lye Soap which gave me an allergic reaction, and I've bought a few lard soaps from homemade sellers on Etsy and those didn't work out either. From charts I see that lard and tallow are high in those fats my skin doesn't like such as oleic acid, the monosaturated and saturated fat so that kind of explains it.



Yes that's the correct channel and playlist. I would skip the first two videos (how to line soap molds and embeds) on the playlist and start at "Everything You Need to Make Cold Process Soap".

I don't know any that discuss superfat in detail. Maybe check out Brambleberry and Soapqueen.


----------



## coconutoliveallergyp (May 12, 2021)

Cmzaha: I've been hearing that lately that shea butter has latex but I'm not sure that explains my allergy because I've blown up rubber balloons and wear latex gloves for cleaning... so I'm thinking it's the fact that shea butter comes from a nut as opposed to a seed like some oils. And I am allergic to nuts, esp peanuts. 
Thanks for addressing the skin-crawling problem, you help confirm that it's an oleic acid issue which I only just realized my skin doesn't like. An article I read stated that some people have lower amounts of in linoleic acid in their sebum and an overproduction of oleic. So if they layer a high oleic acid oil over skin already high in oleic, they're more prone to breakouts. That seems to describe me.

MGM: You make a good point. I have definitely tried to shower with water only. I've even tried showering with fresh aloe vera only, okra gel only, flax gel, all sorts of stuff that's not soap... But I hate BO. It's not like I smell terrible or that I'm extremely dirty when I don't use soap, it's just you have to get used to your natural BO. And you have to get used to feeling kind of gritty too. but I agree with finding a workaround


----------



## coconutoliveallergyp (May 12, 2021)

Thanks Quanta for that website. It's nice to get an idea of how the soap will look once I begin. And thanks Zany for the grapeseed oil offer, I didn't realize you were offering to make it for me. Would that be liquid or bar?


----------



## Zany_in_CO (May 13, 2021)

Quanta said:


> Here's a page detailing lots of single oil soaps, and grapeseed oil and rice bran oil soaps are both there. Rice bran oil makes a great soap, and grapeseed oil makes a terrible soap, apparently.


FWIW, The date of the swap is April 15, 2003 -- the same year I made my first soap. I question the validity of the results as they apply today. Much has changed since then. To my mind at least, the results, while interesting, have little value to the way we make soap currently. So as not to Hijack  _@coconutoliveallergyp 's_ thread, I will start a new thread so please save any response for later.


coconutoliveallergyp said:


> thanks Zany for the grapeseed oil offer, I didn't realize you were offering to make it for me. Would that be liquid or bar?


Liquid.


----------



## coconutoliveallergyp (May 13, 2021)

Ok what are your prices. well just inbox me them


----------



## Aromasuzie (May 13, 2021)

@coconutoliveallergyp did you try the rice flour and rose water?  I understand what you're saying about not feeling totally clean just using water.  That's why I like the flours for cleansing, you get that scrubby feeling, which can be adjusted by the coarseness of the flour.  If you react with rice flour, there's are others you can try.  I've even used chickpea flour but it still retains a scent I wasn't particularly keen on.  It might be a good adjunct until you find the soap that works for you.


----------



## Quanta (May 13, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> So as not to Hijack  _@coconutoliveallergyp 's_ thread, I will start a new thread so please save any response for later.


Good, because I have no idea what you're talking about. Can you please post a link to your thread here once you get it posted?


----------



## Zany_in_CO (May 14, 2021)

coconutoliveallergyp said:


> I do want and am learning how to make my own soap. It's just that it takes time before the whole process is complete. ...  It's not like once I start making it that's the end of my problems. ... So I'm still trying to see if I can find the easy way out before I fully commit to soapmaking.





coconutoliveallergyp said:


> Ok what are your prices. well just inbox me them


While I could make it for you, I'd like to see you at least try to make it on your own. No time like the present to do that and I think you will be happy with your decision to move forward. The nice thing about liquid soap is that you can start using it right away vs hard bars requiring a 4-6 week cure on average. The main difference between hard bars and liquid soap is the type of lye used.

*BASIC BEGINNER LIQUID SOAP* - Use this recipe. Sub grapeseed oil for the 70% olive oil, eliminate the coconut oil, use 30% castor oil.

*LIQUID SOAPMAKING - WHERE TO START* - Also helpful for Beginners just starting out.

You should have almost everything you need in your kitchen, except for a stick blender, safety goggles and gloves. You should be able to find grapeseed oil and castor oil locally. You will need to purchase lye online. Look for Potassium Hydroxide (KOH). 

You can also start a new thread if you want, to get recommendations for purchasing KOH and the rest of the things you'll need. 

HAPPY SOAPING!!!


----------



## ImpKit (May 14, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> While I could make it for you, I'd like to see you at least try to make it on your own. No time like the present to do that and I think you will be happy with your decision to move forward. The nice thing about liquid soap is that you can start using it right away vs hard bars requiring a 4-6 week cure on average. The main difference between hard bars and liquid soap is the type of lye used.
> 
> *BASIC BEGINNER LIQUID SOAP* - Use this recipe. Sub grapeseed oil for the 70% olive oil, eliminate the coconut oil, use 30% castor oil.
> 
> ...


Question, and I can search the forum later if I need to, but is there a viable option for cold process liquid soap making? I do NOT have space to store a pot (stove top or crock) dedicated to soap making. But I would be curious to try liquid soap making.


----------



## Tara_H (May 14, 2021)

ImpKit said:


> Question, and I can search the forum later if I need to, but is there a viable option for cold process liquid soap making? I do NOT have space to store a pot (stove top or crock) dedicated to soap making. But I would be curious to try liquid soap making.


The short answer is yes!  There's a thread on pale coloured LS iirc which should be a good place to start searching.


----------



## Zany_in_CO (May 14, 2021)

ImpKit said:


> is there a viable option for cold process liquid soap making?


Yes! The brief answer is, Bring to hard trace and stop there. Let sit for 1 - 2 weeks (or longer) as it continues to reach full saponification. IME and IMHO it is the best way for Noobs to have a satisfying first experience making LS.

I don't always HP to make it. But, with CP, it is important to watch your temps for the best result:

*Make lye solution:*
Water : Lye Ratio - type in* 3:1*
Super Fat: - 0%
Set in sink to cool to 140°F (60°C)






Weigh 16 oz. oils into 4-cup Pyrex (or microwave safe container of choice). Nuke 2:40 minutes @ high to 160°F (71°C). Add vitamin E and ROE (Antioxidants. Optional.). Stir. Set on preheated warmer plate.

LS traces slower than hard bars. Allow 12 - 45 minutes depending on oils used.

Once oils and lye are combined, keep temps at 160°F (71°C) while bringing to trace.
Continue to SB on and off until you reach hard trace.

At that point, I cover and let the batch set for a week. I sometimes put it in a ZipLoc in the laundry room.

Your favorite NaOH recipe may not transfer favorably to LS. For formulating:

*WHAT TO EXPECT FROM VARIOUS OILS IN LS*

*DILUTION RATES*

There you have it!

HAPPY LS-ING!   

ETA:  It seems @Tara_H and I were posting at the same time.


----------



## ImpKit (May 14, 2021)

Ooh that's a bit involved and looks like it still needs SOME heat (that warmer plate), albeit not the same as a HP crock pot requirement. I'm bookmarking this for a future experiment when I have fewer projects though!


----------



## Tara_H (May 14, 2021)

ImpKit said:


> Ooh that's a bit involved and looks like it still needs SOME heat (that warmer plate), albeit not the same as a HP crock pot requirement. I'm bookmarking this for a future experiment when I have fewer projects though!


Here's the one I was thinking of - a few posts later is the link to the thread with the recipe:





						Why Does Liquid Soap Nearly Always Turn Amber When Saponified?
					

Okay... inquiring minds (or my mind in particular) would like to know why liquid soap nearly always turns an amber color, regardless of the oils used.  I started out 20 years ago using the only book on the market, at that time, by Catherine Failor.  It's been my bible more or less since then...




					www.soapmakingforum.com


----------

