# It's been a week and the paste is still thick



## Jena (May 16, 2017)

I tried making a how to liquid soap on a vendor site, but made my own recipe. The site said I could add a specific amount of butters, so I added 3% Kokum Butter. I'm thinking that was my error.

First the paste wasn't absorbing, then it was, but it had a layer on top. I googled and found that I needed more lye, so I added that, when it still didn't dissolve, I googled again, and saw a post that suggested poly 80. So, I added that. It's still been days of adding more water, but it finally emulsifies when it's cool, and I can stir it easily, even though it's still thick. I have it in the crockpot again now.

I'm not sure what to do. It's still a golden paste. The ph is 8.4. I purchased a meter a while back. Everything I read suggests that's too low. 

Does the soap still have a chance, or should I toss it and start over? I read about citric, but it's not lye heavy. I read about borax, but it indicated it could be an irritant to sensitive skin. If I leave it, will it ever become liquid without the paste?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (May 16, 2017)

People are going to need to know your exact recipe, process, and any thing that you have done in as much detail as possible.


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## Jena (May 16, 2017)

*Recipe and Process*

Thanks for responding Craig. Here is the recipe and process. It's a 24 oz batch.

11.2 Coconut Oil       KOH: 7.155
2.56 Castor              Water: 21.46
12.48 Olive
4.8 Safflower
.96 Kokum Butter

I put it in the crockpot and cooked it like hot process, heated a pot and, moved the paste to a pan with warm glycerin. 

I let it sit for a couple days. Stirring was more of a folding the soap into it and trying to mix. It developed a crust on top, but the bottom was thickish, but clear. I tried stirring it together, but nothing would make it emulsify. 

So I went over the instructions. I had used a -5 superfat. The original recipe was -7. The reason for that was that if something isn't pure, how can I tell how much is too much? So I had went with -5. I re-figured the recipe for -7 (thinking maybe that was the problem), and recooked it in the crockpot.

Back in the pan, but I added water this time. I had the same odd separation. I googled and started reading what I could find. Someone suggested the poly sorbate. I didn't add a lot, but didn't keep track. They had said until it emulsified. At about 5 ounces, it looked like it was working, so I stirred and added more water. The separation wasn't too bad after that. It started coming together, but the paste wasn't melting.

At this point, I was ready to toss it, but did another google search, and someone said it sometimes takes her soap two weeks to liquefy. She just adds a little more water daily, until it's diluted.

At this point the soap is thick, and most of the chunks of paste seemed to be out of it this morning. By tonight, it had thickened again, so I added more water.

Should I trash it and start over? The soap seems okay, but it's taken a lot of distilled water, and is still semisolid at room temperature. If the ph is low, should I add more lye?


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## Susie (May 16, 2017)

I rarely say this, but at this stage of this, toss that and do some reading before starting another batch.  

Start here:  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46114

Read IrishLass' excellent tutorial in post #8, and follow it.  Pay attention to the method.  

I don't know who's tutorial you were watching/following before, but you have come to the right place to get advice on how to make good liquid soap.


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## Jena (May 16, 2017)

Thanks, Susie. I was thinking that might be the only way at this point.


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## Susie (May 16, 2017)

Liquid soap is very forgiving.  It can be fixed through almost anything.  This is not one of those cases.  I am so very sorry that you got bad advice on making liquid soap.  It truly is much easier than bar soap.


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## Soapmaker145 (May 16, 2017)

Jena said:


> I'm not sure what to do. It's still a golden paste. The ph is 8.4. I purchased a meter a while back. Everything I read suggests that's too low.
> 
> Does the soap still have a chance, or should I toss it and start over? I read about citric, but it's not lye heavy. I read about borax, but it indicated it could be an irritant to sensitive skin. If I leave it, will it ever become liquid without the paste?



The kokum wasn't your problem.  Your pH is too low which means you didn't have enough KOH in your recipe.  I think you didn't factor in that KOH is usually no more than 90% pure so you ended up with about 5+% superfat.  Using soapcalc, you were missing close to 23g of KOH for a -5 superfat.  If you haven't tossed it yet, add an oz of KOH (dissolved in water) and mix it well.  Leave it alone for 2 to 3 weeks to do its thing.  You'll need to neutralize with citric acid when diluting.  

Aim for a pH closer to 9.5 (measured at room temp).  Don't let it drop below 9 because the saponification reaction begins to reverse itself.

Do read the thread that Susie mentioned.


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## Jena (May 17, 2017)

Thank you, Soapmaker 145. 

I did toss it. I'm glad it wasn't the kokum butter. I really love it in bar soaps so wanted to add it to liquid. I hope to make Susie's method tomorrow or the next day. I read the entire thread. 

Do I still need the drops if I have a ph meter?


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## Susie (May 17, 2017)

You don't need either one.  Those tell the pH.  You don't need to know the pH, you need to know if there is still free lye remaining in it (if it is safe).  Zap testing is fast and free.  Just rub a wet gloved finger on the paste and touch it to your tongue.  If you get a zap, you wait to dilute, if you don't, then go ahead and dilute.


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## DeeAnna (May 17, 2017)

Here is a good article on correct methods of testing pH. I disagree with the author on one point about zap testing. It IS a valid and useful test. It is arguably more useful than pH testing, since the pH doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the level of excess alkalinity (excess lye). For that, you want to do a zap test or a full fledged excess alkalinity test.

pH testing: http://www.modernsoapmaking.com/how-to-ph-test-handmade-soap/

my article on zap testing: https://classicbells.com/soap/zapTest.html


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## Jena (Jun 13, 2017)

Just an update on this. I loved your article. It has so much information. After reading, I did the test with 1% lather in water. It came up 8.6. Then my husband found the paper strips and three tests came out in the 10 range.

I think it's fair to say my ph meter is flawed. I'm hoping a calibration will fix it.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jun 13, 2017)

Jena said:


> Just an update on this. I loved your article. It has so much information. After reading, I did the test with 1% lather in water. It came up 8.6. Then my husband found the paper strips and three tests came out in the 10 range.
> 
> I think it's fair to say my ph meter is flawed. I'm hoping a calibration will fix it.



It's more likely that the strips are flawed.  They're generally garbage - especially if they're paper instead of plastic strips.


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## Jena (Jun 13, 2017)

They were paper. I didn't even know they made plastic ones.


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