# Goat/cow milk soap.  Need help.



## mymy (Oct 28, 2015)

I know this is not appropriate to be asked over and over again but I just want to double check the method of making milk soap.  Please do forgive me. 

My main target is to obtain milky white soap.  Slightly brown is quite ok I guess. 

1st method- Freeze 100% milk as water and melt it by pouring lye slowly on top of it so the milk won't burn. Blend with oil and keep it inside a fridge to prevent gelling. 

2nd method- 50% water 50%milk. Dissolve lye with water, blend with oil and add milk upon trace. Store in a fridge.  

3rd method - I got from soap loving blog. 1:1 lye to water.  Mix milk with oil and then add the lye solution in.  This method requires no milk freezing and store batter in a cool place.  

Which method works best based on your experience?


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## Arimara (Oct 28, 2015)

Milk soaps, unless you're going to use titanium oxide, are generally going to be a little discolored thanks to the sugars in them. I did read that coconut milk was an exception. My buttermilk soap was made with buttermilk powder and it gelled. It would have been a much lighter beige than what it was if I had not let if gel. So sticking your soap in the freezer or fridge for a while may help.

By the way, I used the 3rd method but not in those ratios. I used 2:1 water to lye and had a heck of a time figuring out how much powder to use.


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## lsg (Oct 28, 2015)

I use cream and water as my liquid.  I dissolve the lye in water and add the cream at thin trace.  After the soap is poured into the mold, I pop the mold into the freezer and leave it for at least 12 hours.  This is the only way that I have have been able to prevent gel.  My soap stays creamy white this way.  Please note, that adding fragrance oils with vanilla will discolor soap.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 28, 2015)

For those that have done both - does adding the milk after the cook avoid the brownness but still give the benefits of having milk in a soap?  Or should the milk interact with the lye in some way to get the benefits that we know and love?  Just wondering if there is an option 4 here, add it after the cook in HP


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## Arimara (Oct 28, 2015)

Found something helpful (I hope):

http://thenerdyfarmwife.com/how-to-make-soap-with-milk/


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## Obsidian (Oct 28, 2015)

I used method #3, make sure the lye solution is chilled before adding to the oils and leave the mold in the fridge overnight. My recent batch of goats milk soap is a nice light creamy ivory. If you want it very white, you'll need to use TD.


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## mymy (Oct 28, 2015)

Arimara said:


> Milk soaps, unless you're going to use titanium oxide, are generally going to be a little discolored thanks to the sugars in them. I did read that coconut milk was an exception. My buttermilk soap was made with buttermilk powder and it gelled. It would have been a much lighter beige than what it was if I had not let if gel. So sticking your soap in the freezer or fridge for a while may help.
> 
> By the way, I used the 3rd method but not in those ratios. I used 2:1 water to lye and had a heck of a time figuring out how much powder to use.



I try to avoid colorants as much as I could because I like it natural and more importantly I want to use milk soap on my face. So I must skip TD this time. 
Hmmmm you used powdered milk, how much did u put inside if I may know? Thank you for the share!   



lsg said:


> I use cream and water as my liquid.  I dissolve the lye in water and add the cream at thin trace.  After the soap is poured into the mold, I pop the mold into the freezer and leave it for at least 12 hours.  This is the only way that I have have been able to prevent gel.  My soap stays creamy white this way.  Please note, that adding fragrance oils with vanilla will discolor soap.



Thank you for the tips!   What was the ratio of water, lye and cream? I assume  cream will just work as good as yoghurt? 



The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> For those that have done both - does adding the milk after the cook avoid the brownness but still give the benefits of having milk in a soap?  Or should the milk interact with the lye in some way to get the benefits that we know and love?  Just wondering if there is an option 4 here, add it after the cook in HP



I am scared to try HP while working with milk.  Plus this is my first time.  I have the same idea like yours too.  



Arimara said:


> Found something helpful (I hope):
> 
> http://thenerdyfarmwife.com/how-to-make-soap-with-milk/



Thank you!   



Obsidian said:


> I used method #3, make sure the lye solution is chilled before adding to the oils and leave the mold in the fridge overnight. My recent batch of goats milk soap is a nice light creamy ivory. If you want it very white, you'll need to use TD.



Slightly brownish is okay with me. If it turned out as coffee color I will be very sad.


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## shunt2011 (Oct 28, 2015)

I use the 50/50 split method.  I add the milk to my oils before the cooled lye mixture.  I gel my soaps and it's an ivory/pale beige.


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## lsg (Oct 28, 2015)

My ratio is about 66% water and 33% cream.


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## cmzaha (Oct 28, 2015)

mymy said:


> I try to avoid colorants as much as I could because I like it natural and more importantly I want to use milk soap on my face. So I must skip TD this time.
> Hmmmm you used powdered milk, how much did u put inside if I may know? Thank you for the share!



TD is a natural oxide found in food, toothpaste, sunscreen, candy, etc, and known to be one of the whitest naturally occurring substances on earth. I soap with 50/50 lye solution, using milk for the remaining liquid. After adding my lye solution to my oil I mix a little then add in the milk Many times I mix powdered milk with the liquid milk to up the strength

ETA: I put all my milk soaps in the freezer to prevent gel. Sometimes it works sometimes not if I use an overheating fo, fortunately I do not mind the look of partial gel


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## lovinglife (Oct 28, 2015)

I use 100% goat milk for water, freeze in cubes, then make sure they are melted a bit for when I start adding the lye, I put my bowl in my sink with some ice water to keep it nice and cool.  I get the lye disolved with no problems, it stays cool, if I don't use a discoloring fragrance it stays creamy colored, plus the color of your oils will affect the color of your soap.  Use your fridge or freezer to put your soap in if you don't want gel.  I don't like using a lot of colors in my soaps as I can't stand to have colored bubbles or hands.  Only thing I use is natural clays to give a tint of color and they will lather with color is over used, so mine are all pastels or plain with a light swirl for variety.  Some of my fragrances color a dark brown, but no colored lather so far from that.


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## mymy (Oct 28, 2015)

lsg said:


> My ratio is about 66% water and 33% cream.


Thanks!   



shunt2011 said:


> I use the 50/50 split method.  I add the milk to my oils before the cooled lye mixture.  I gel my soaps and it's an ivory/pale beige.



Great! So both oil and lye are cooled down? But when a batter is gelling, temperature's rising isn't it? Hmmmm. Maybe there's a range of temperature that ensures the milk will not be scorched during gelling.  Depends on the initial mixing temperature i guess.  Gosh so many questions.  Sorry :'(



cmzaha said:


> TD is a natural oxide found in food, toothpaste, sunscreen, candy, etc, and known to be one of the whitest naturally occurring substances on earth. I soap with 50/50 lye solution, using milk for the remaining liquid. After adding my lye solution to my oil I mix a little then add in the milk Many times I mix powdered milk with the liquid milk to up the strength



My supplier told me that TD is dangerous to be used that is why I'm scared to use it. Thank you for your explanation cmzaha. Now I know that it's safe  



lovinglife said:


> I use 100% goat milk for water, freeze in cubes, then make sure they are melted a bit for when I start adding the lye, I put my bowl in my sink with some ice water to keep it nice and cool.  I get the lye disolved with no problems, it stays cool, if I don't use a discoloring fragrance it stays creamy colored, plus the color of your oils will affect the color of your soap.  Use your fridge or freezer to put your soap in if you don't want gel.  I don't like using a lot of colors in my soaps as I can't stand to have colored bubbles or hands.  Only thing I use is natural clays to give a tint of color and they will lather with color is over used, so mine are all pastels or plain with a light swirl for variety.  Some of my fragrances color a dark brown, but no colored lather so far from that.



Thank you for your brief explanation lovinglife. I guess there are few factors that could change the color of milk soap after it went through gelling. Like you said, oil.  I couldn't agree more on this, I'll keep it in mind. My saltbars are colored with blue mica and I had a rough time cleaning the pots I used to mix the batter. Bummer.


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## Obsidian (Oct 28, 2015)

I don't have any pics of  my recent goat milk soap but this is my very first soap made, I used 100% chilled goat milk and added the lye in very slowly. I kept the pitcher in a bowl of ice so the solution never got hot. My recent batch is the same color, neither were gelled.


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## mymy (Oct 28, 2015)

Lovely color u have there Obsidian.  I like it! Hmmmm something is wrong here, I can not upload pictures that I would like to show.


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## snappyllama (Oct 28, 2015)

TD is quite safe - I'm worried about what else your supplier has gotten wrong. You can also explore natural colors using oil infusions: do a search here to see some fabulous results and tips. To get lovely color from mica and avoid colored bubbles, consider coloring only a small portion of your batter with the mica.

Pretty much every soap I make contains goat milk or coconut milk. I've tried the split method and iced milk method. Both produce identical results so long as you soap cool and avoid gel. Keep an ice batch handy in case things heat up and a spot in your freezer/fridge in case the batter decides it wants to heat up. 

Tip for cleaning-up: procrastinate! Wipe out what you can. Then leave those batter-splattered dishes to saponify by locking them up in a bucket out of reach of kids, pets, and other people. When you get back to them, you'll just have soap residue to wash.  Just get your stickblender clean - soaping residue inside its bell is a pita to clean later.


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## shunt2011 (Oct 28, 2015)

TD is perfectly safe, I don't know where your supplier is getting their information or why they are saying such a thing.  Many of my cosmetic contain TD and it's also used for sunscreen.


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## mymy (Oct 28, 2015)

snappyllama said:


> TD is quite safe - I'm worried about what else your supplier has gotten wrong. You can also explore natural colors using oil infusions: do a search here to see some fabulous results and tips. To get lovely color from mica and avoid colored bubbles, consider coloring only a small portion of your batter with the mica.
> 
> Pretty much every soap I make contains goat milk or coconut milk. I've tried the split method and iced milk method. Both produce identical results so long as you soap cool and avoid gel. Keep an ice batch handy in case things heat up and a spot in your freezer/fridge in case the batter decides it wants to heat up.
> 
> Tip for cleaning-up: procrastinate! Wipe out what you can. Then leave those batter-splattered dishes to saponify by locking them up in a bucket out of reach of kids, pets, and other people. When you get back to them, you'll just have soap residue to wash.  Just get your stickblender clean - soaping residue inside its bell is a pita to clean later.



Thank you snappyllama! Yes, I've no idea that TD is safe until cmzaha wrote bout it. My supplier told me that TD is used to stabilize something that I couldn't recall. Haha. Anyway, it does not matter now as I am leaning to make soap with natural colorant such as tumeric, spirulina and more. Now I want to try milk soap. One question, what if the batter is suddenly gelling inside the fridge? Anything that I can do?


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## cgpeanut (Oct 28, 2015)

mymy said:


> I know this is not appropriate to be asked over and over again but I just want to double check the method of making milk soap.  Please do forgive me.
> 
> My main target is to obtain milky white soap.  Slightly brown is quite ok I guess.
> 
> ...


 I use method 3.  I don't do the the method 2 because lye must be mixed with an equal amount of water and unless you are sure 1/2 of the liquid in the recipe that you will use in method # 2 in you water meets the requirement for the lye to dissolve you could run into problems.


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## mymy (Oct 28, 2015)

shunt2011 said:


> TD is perfectly safe, I don't know where your supplier is getting their information or why they are saying such a thing.  Many of my cosmetic contain TD and it's also used for sunscreen.



Yes, now I know that is it safe to use.  Credits to this forum members!  

Maybe they just don't want to encourage me to use colorant as I'm new in soapmaking though.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 28, 2015)

Then why say it is unsafe?  A supplier that would lie to me instead of just saying "maybe hold off on that for now" is a bad supplier.


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## mymy (Oct 28, 2015)

cgpeanut said:


> I use method 3.  I don't do the the method 2 because lye must be mixed with an equal amount of water and unless you are sure 1/2 of the liquid in the recipe that you will use in method # 2 in you water meets the requirement for the lye to dissolve you could run into problems.



Thank you for your feedback!    I see. 
As far as I know, water can dissolve lye twice its weight but I have never tried it yet.  I should try it out someday.



The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Then why say it is unsafe?  A supplier that would lie to me instead of just saying "maybe hold off on that for now" is a bad supplier.



Oh ya, I remember it now, they say TD is some kind of bleach that is used in cosmetics, they don't recommend me to use it but they have it in stock if I insist to buy.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 28, 2015)

mymy said:


> ................water can dissolve lye twice its weight but I have never tried it yet.  I should try it out someday............................



No no no no! This is really untrue and very dangerous - water can dissolve lye of an equal amount, but not more so.  The most you can do is a 50% solution.

Please tell me that this didn't come from that same supplier?


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## mymy (Oct 28, 2015)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> No no no no! This is really untrue and very dangerous - water can dissolve lye of an equal amount, but not more so.  The most you can do is a 50% solution.
> 
> Please tell me that this didn't come from that same supplier?



I read it in here.  I forgot which thread.


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## dixiedragon (Oct 28, 2015)

mymy said:


> Thank you for your feedback!  I see.
> As far as I know, water can dissolve lye twice its weight but I have never tried it yet. I should try it out someday.
> 
> 
> ...


 
Who is your supplier? They know their stock; I'd follow their advice. Perhaps their TD has something in it that makes it unsafe? So I wouldn't use their TD. I'd buy it from a soap supplier.

I use method 3, except I use canned milk. I do a 50/50 canned milk/water ratio. I dissolve my lye in water, and heat my oils. I let my lye water reach room temp and I let my oils reach between 90-100F. I add the canned milk to the oils and pour the lye water while blending. Honestly, with the sugar in the milk, I don't think you're going to get a snowy white bar.


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## mymy (Oct 28, 2015)

dixiedragon said:


> Who is your supplier? They know their stock; I'd follow their advice. Perhaps their TD has something in it that makes it unsafe? So I wouldn't use their TD. I'd buy it from a soap supplier.
> 
> I use method 3, except I use canned milk. I do a 50/50 canned milk/water ratio. I dissolve my lye in water, and heat my oils. I let my lye water reach room temp and I let my oils reach between 90-100F. I add the canned milk to the oils and pour the lye water while blending. Honestly, with the sugar in the milk, I don't think you're going to get a snowy white bar.



They  make and sell soaps too.  Hmmmm. Good point from you.  I see, if the oils are all liquid, would it be ok if i mix them at room temperature? Just curious.


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## dixiedragon (Oct 28, 2015)

mymy said:


> They make and sell soaps too. Hmmmm. Good point from you. I see, if the oils are all liquid, would it be ok if i mix them at room temperature? Just curious.


 
I don't see why not. Be prepared for the soap to take longer to trace.


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## galaxyMLP (Oct 28, 2015)

There was some speculation for a time that TD could cause cancer if the powdered form was inhaled in large amount over a long period of time. Like in the cases with factories that manufacture TD or use it in large amounts. 

From what I've read they've since said its safe. It turns out, it causes cancer (lung tumors) in rats but, not in mice, or hamsters. That means it has a species specific pathway. When they look at epidemiology (studying the people in the factories themselves) they found no link to cancer/higher incidence than normal. 

Abstract:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15790613

Full article:
http://annhyg.oxfordjournals.org/content/49/6/461.long

Us soap makers don't use large amounts of TD and make it go airborne so we don't have any risks associated with use. We especially don't have to worry once it goes into soap.


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## Dharlee (Oct 28, 2015)

snappyllama said:


> Tip for cleaning-up: procrastinate! Wipe out what you can. Then leave those batter-splattered dishes to saponify by locking them up in a bucket out of reach of kids, pets, and other people. When you get back to them, you'll just have soap residue to wash.  Just get your stickblender clean - soaping residue inside its bell is a pita to clean later.



Never pour raw soap down your drain for clean up. Snappy gave the best advice here- wait and let it turn to soap, then clean it up, except the stick blender. Wipe it down well and you're good to go!


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## Susie (Oct 28, 2015)

I wipe everything down with paper towels before washing.  Small kitchen and soap making mess do not make a good combination for me.


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## Relle (Oct 28, 2015)

I use the first method and find there's no need to use TD if you prevent gel. It comes out a creamy colour, not a stark white.


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## Yooper (Oct 28, 2015)

lovinglife said:


> I use 100% goat milk for water, freeze in cubes, then make sure they are melted a bit for when I start adding the lye, I put my bowl in my sink with some ice water to keep it nice and cool.  I get the lye disolved with no problems, it stays cool, if I don't use a discoloring fragrance it stays creamy colored, plus the color of your oils will affect the color of your soap.  Use your fridge or freezer to put your soap in if you don't want gel.  I don't like using a lot of colors in my soaps as I can't stand to have colored bubbles or hands.  Only thing I use is natural clays to give a tint of color and they will lather with color is over used, so mine are all pastels or plain with a light swirl for variety.  Some of my fragrances color a dark brown, but no colored lather so far from that.



That's what I do.  Freeze the milk, add the lye, stir well, and keep it in a bowl of ice water.  Then I mix the soap, again over the bowl of ice water, and pour into a loaf mold.  My milk soaps are a creamy light ivory color.

But I don't use fragrance oils that can discolor.


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## Arimara (Oct 28, 2015)

mymy said:


> I try to avoid colorants as much as I could because I like it natural and more importantly I want to use milk soap on my face. So I must skip TD this time.
> Hmmmm you used powdered milk, how much did u put inside if I may know? Thank you for the share!
> ...



I gave up with figuring it out and sadly, I put two 1/2TBSPs of the powder. Math was never my strong point but I don't like caving like that either.

For reference, one TBSP of the buttermilk is needed for every two ounces of water. Just don't ask me the brand I used; It's at my mom's.


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## mymy (Oct 28, 2015)

dixiedragon said:


> I don't see why not. Be prepared for the soap to take longer to trace.



Correct.  I have never thought of this.   thank you! 







galaxyMLP said:


> There was some speculation for a time that TD could cause cancer if the powdered form was inhaled in large amount over a long period of time. Like in the cases with factories that manufacture TD or use it in large amounts.
> 
> From what I've read they've since said its safe. It turns out, it causes cancer (lung tumors) in rats but, not in mice, or hamsters. That means it has a species specific pathway. When they look at epidemiology (studying the people in the factories themselves) they found no link to cancer/higher incidence than normal.
> 
> ...



Great findings!  Thank you!  

When we see TD on microbiological side, to put an analogy, a microbe won't harm a living organism if it enters wrong pathway as for an example, E. coli is not harmful if it lingers on our skin instead of entering our digestive system. So, there might be a specific organ/system that is reactive to certain product. Since no people knows which part of our body reacts the most with TD, I don't want to risk it for now. Just to be careful. 








Dharlee said:


> Never pour raw soap down your drain for clean up. Snappy gave the best advice here- wait and let it turn to soap, then clean it up, except the stick blender. Wipe it down well and you're good to go!



Yes Dharlee, I learned this after I read through the threads.  Now I'm addicted to scrape soap residue on the the surface of the utensils after I left them to get dried for 4-5days and turn them into a soap ball! So cute! 









Susie said:


> I wipe everything down with paper towels before washing.  Small kitchen and soap making mess do not make a good combination for me.



I use clean clothes to wipe messes came from soap making process, just the counter though, and leave the pots and stuff to dry in a safe area. 








Relle said:


> I use the first method and find there's no need to use TD if you prevent gel. It comes out a creamy colour, not a stark white.




Yes, gonna try make milk soap by this weekend.   






Yooper said:


> That's what I do.  Freeze the milk, add the lye, stir well, and keep it in a bowl of ice water.  Then I mix the soap, again over the bowl of ice water, and pour into a loaf mold.  My milk soaps are a creamy light ivory color.
> 
> But I don't use fragrance oils that can discolor.



Did you chill the soap in the fridge? 








Arimara said:


> I gave up with figuring it out and sadly, I put two 1/2TBSPs of the powder. Math was never my strong point but I don't like caving like that either.
> 
> For reference, one TBSP of the buttermilk is needed for every two ounces of water. Just don't ask me the brand I used; It's at my mom's.



Haha thank you for the info! I was once rushing to make coffee soap and made 3tbps coffee powder into solution and added lye in.  I realized that it was too much after I poured the batter into the mold. Normally, only 1 teaspoon of coffee powder is used to make 1lbs of soap, imagine the solution consistency and the smell after the lye got in.  Yucks. Now, waiting the soap to cure. I bet bubbles will be a little bit darker.


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## Arimara (Oct 29, 2015)

Probably. I made a soap with red palm and I'm now seeing why refined palm is more popular. The soap is pretty good though.


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## BakingNana (Nov 1, 2015)

I use method 3; 50/50 lye solution, fresh milk blended into the oils equal to the amount of extra water I would have added to the 50/50 solution under normal circumstances, then I blend in powdered milk -- the amount it would take to reconstitute the water in my lye solution.  I do gel. Got tired of trying to fight it.  Soap stays a light beige creamy color that I actually like a lot.


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## mymy (Nov 1, 2015)

Arimara said:


> Probably. I made a soap with red palm and I'm now seeing why refined palm is more popular. The soap is pretty good though.



In fact, red palm is better than refined. I would like to buy it in bulk soon. soaps made with it came 
out orange right? Yummy! The only drawback is, bubbles will turn orange too.  






BakingNana said:


> I use method 3; 50/50 lye solution, fresh milk blended into the oils equal to the amount of extra water I would have added to the 50/50 solution under normal circumstances, then I blend in powdered milk -- the amount it would take to reconstitute the water in my lye solution.  I do gel. Got tired of trying to fight it.  Soap stays a light beige creamy color that I actually like a lot.



Aha, I have exams tomorrow. Will definitely make milk soap afterwards! Can't wait!


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