# First try at a hair conditioning bar



## Mark the Box Guy (May 21, 2013)

*Though Genny's now immortal shampoo recipe* has (according to soapcalc) low cleansing, low bubbles, medium creamy, is soft, and has a ton of conditioning, and therefor has the same general characteristics I'd like in a conditioning bar, I'm compelled to still consider it a shampoo, *though I have no idea why.*

So after a trip into the local Lush, I picked up a bar of their crazy looking Jungle Conditioning Bar and leaped into the shower. That's a fine conditioner, and after a bit of digging about, saw that it was mostly Cocoa Butter with a bit of crushed up Avocado. As it so happens, I'm about to receive a carton with CB and Avocado Oil, *so why not give it a go.* It will be one of this weekend's projects.

Full disclosure: average white guy with fine greying hair that's washed too often with handmade (someone else's hand) Shampoo Bars and desperately wants a conditioner. I did have a bit of dandruff until the shampoo bars put an end to that.

*Here's what I've come up with:*

Avocado Oil 50g
Olive Oil 235g (though varying the weight from 130 to 300 had very little impact on SoapCalc.)
Castor Oil 80g
Cocoa Butter 200g

*Yes: this sounds good. *It should have zero cleansing, high conditioning, low bubbly, high creamy, and very soft. I had considering using shea butter and perhaps some sweet almond oil, but could find no immediate benefits. *Did I miss something?*

But this sounds inferior to Genny's shampoo. Her bar creates more bubbles. 

The confusion is over just how to distinguish between the various soap types. Since I've started making soap (and reading a great deal) I've taken the view that soaps shouldn't be neatly organised into types like hair, body, or face. *Instead, soap is very much a tool for a job*, and should simply be created with the result and use in mind.

Which still leaves me considering whether Genny's shampoo should be used as, and called a conditioner (albeit a shea rather then coconut one.)

Any thoughts? Remember, I have neighbours *(including my curmudgeonly Mum-in-Law)* who are watching me carefully. England can be a dodgy place.


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## FGOriold (May 21, 2013)

I make solid conditioner bars but not as cold process soap - and they are wonderful.  You cannot really cleanse and condition at the same time as effectively as separate products can.  Yes, there are 2 in 1 shampoos out there, but they do not condition as well as separate conditioners do IMO.  Soap/shampoos are meant removed dirt and oils from the hair while conditioners are meant to deposit conditioning and moisturizing agents onto the hair - it is difficult to do both with one product.  The best ingredient for creating conditioners (whether solid or liquid) is BTMS or BTMS-50.  There are also tons of great ingredients you can add to conditioners - polyquats, silicones, proteins, detanglers and oils/butters.  

The lush conditioners are not cold process bars and use Centrimonium Bromide as the conditioning agent instead of the BTMS listed above.  They also use Sodium Lauryl Sulfate which is a cleansing agent.  

It looks like you want to make a shampoo bar that has the most conditioning moisturizing qualities based on the oils - but it will still be a cleanser first.


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## Mark the Box Guy (May 21, 2013)

Nope: I'm just trying to make a hair conditioning bar. I'm assuming that it's also created like a soap.


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## FGOriold (May 21, 2013)

True hair conditioners are not created the same as cold process soap.  Soap is meant to cleanse and remove things from hair/skin etc.  Soap can have certain conditioning qualities - but in general soap is a wash off product with the sole purpose of cleansing.  Various formulations will add different qualities to your soap making it gentle/harsh etc. - but its main purpose is to cleanse.

Conditioners have no cleansing qualities (although those with very dry hair use conditioners as shampoo because their hair cannot take the cleansing) and are meant to add ingredients that will penetrate the hair shaft, etc and not completely rinse out.

This is a really good place to start to learn about conditioners for the hair.

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2010/06/conditioner-whats-that-then.html


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## DeeAnna (May 21, 2013)

I agree with FGO -- read Susan's blog (swiftcraftymonkey). Genny's shampoo is a mildly cleansing soap, but it is not a conditioner. 

A conditioner is, by definition, a cationic (say "cat-ion-ik") product. A cation has a positive electrical charge. This positive charge allows the molecules of conditioner to adhere (technically the word is "adsorb") to the hair shaft. 

Soaps, oils, and many lotions are not cations, because they are electrically neutral molecules. They can do good things when used on hair, but they are not conditioners in that they cannot electrically "stick" to the hair shaft.

A basic conditioner will contain oils, water, preservative, and a cationic emulsifier. BTMS is one commercially available cationic emulsifier that is readily available to home crafters. 

For further information, Susan is your girl -- she's way more knowledgeable than most about this stuff.


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## Mark the Box Guy (May 21, 2013)

I've looked through Susan's blog, and frankly, it's a bit too "laboratory" for me to follow with any sense of either comprehension or retention. 

Perhaps I should revisit my goal. Because I wash my hair often, I suppose that I could tolerate a shampoo with a lower cleansing rating. I'm not a coal miner; I'm a university lecturer. The bars I'm currently using seem to clean to harshly and not condition enough. Perhaps I'll simply mod Genny with a bit of tea tree oil. I could probably get away with substituting in some avocado oil too.

I'll give that a try this weekend. It will be my third official batch of soap.


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## DeeAnna (May 21, 2013)

Will an intriguing story be forthcoming about this batch? :razz:


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## Mark the Box Guy (May 21, 2013)

DeeAnna said:


> Will an intriguing story be forthcoming about this batch? :razz:



They're might be! It depends on my Mum-in-Law, to be fair. Let's hope that the mods decide to keep it in the CP forum  It's so much easier to find in here.


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## lizflowers42 (May 21, 2013)

I find that I do not need to condition my hair anymore using Genny's Shampoo bar.  You mentioned wanting to add some bubbliness (is that a word?)-try adding some sugar or do what I did-BEER!     The smell doesn't stick, I promise.


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