# Single oil soap experiment



## AlchemyandAshes (Jan 9, 2013)

I find myself constantly referring to the Zen Soaps Single Oil Soap Swap because I find it so interesting, and think it is helpful to determine which oil you may or may not want to use in your formula.

However, part of me wishes it was a bit more "scientific"...since the single oil soaps were made for a "swap" by different people in different environments with different water and such, there's no real way to determine what caused the DOS, or to really validate some of the results.

So I decided I am going to try to replicate the experiment myself, as scientifically as I can, so that all the soaps will be made in the same environment, with the same water, and the same method. 

I chose 12 oils based on common usage, availability, and cost:
(I will list brand, price and place of purchase with the results)

CANOLA
CASTOR
COCONUT (LouAna 76 degree)
CRISCO (New)
GRAPESEED
LARD
OLIVE (Refined)
PALM (Hydrogenated Organic)
RICE BRAN
SAFFLOWER
SUNFLOWER
TALLOW

I will soap each oil with full water (distilled) with a 5% superfat and pour them into individual molds. I will (hopefully) gel all of the soaps. I will keep one of each soaps in two different places: one in a cool, dark room and one in a moist bathroom cabinet.

I'm hoping to start this experiment after my next show, so it will be the beginning of February before I gather all the oils I don't personally use. I will post updates to this thread and to my blog.

Does anyone have any suggestions or requests? What oils would you like to see in my experiment?


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## lizflowers42 (Jan 9, 2013)

I have looked at that site before and wondered about how it would have compared coming from just one persons methods!

How about soybean or corn oil since they are cheap cooking oils?

Also since Crisco is a blend of oils wouldn't you think in theory that it would hold up better?


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## AlchemyandAshes (Jan 9, 2013)

Crisco is Soybean and Palm, so maybe I will swap that out for just Soybean? I was trying to think of oils a lot of soapers use that can be found in a grocery store...so Crisco came to mind, but since I'm already doing Palm, I should just do Soybean too.


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## melstan775 (Jan 9, 2013)

When I was browsing oils yesterday, I noticed Pompeii makes a blend now, of olive, grapeseed, and I forgot the other. Maybe you could use this, just to see how a preblended oil mix saponifies?   Just a suggestion. What does DOS mean?


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## AlchemyandAshes (Jan 9, 2013)

DOS = Dreaded Orange Spots, a sign of rancidity in soap

I'm experimenting with single oils so that we can see exactly how they react in soap and curing conditions...if I use a blend, I won't know which oils caused what roblem:


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## Gryfonmoon (Jan 9, 2013)

You know, I've always wondered what a single oil jojoba soap would be like. It would be an expensive experiment though, lol. Good luck with your experiments!


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## AlchemyandAshes (Jan 9, 2013)

Since Jojoba is actually a wax and not an oil, I don't imagine it would saponify completely the way an oil would...I know some people add it as a superfat in HP, but its a little too pricy for my purposes :wink:


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## Gryfonmoon (Jan 9, 2013)

Yeah true. It would probably be very sticky!


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## Fran2 (Jan 9, 2013)

I think it is a great idea.  Good luck with your experiment!   Look forward to the results.


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## Jack (Jan 9, 2013)

As mentioned in another thread, my mission is used corn oil from the fryer.  It's the most common oil used in deep fryers so I would like to know more about how it performs.

Not only is it cheap but for anyone with a fryer, it's free.

Jack


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## maiseycat (Jan 9, 2013)

I am excited to follow your progress! I know alot of people use Avocado oil in their soaps, maybe try that one?


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## AngelMomma (Jan 10, 2013)

I will be glad to see your results.  I have wondered if the results would come out the same as that other one oil test that you refer too.  Looking forward to it.


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## Clemmey (Jan 10, 2013)

I too would like to try this... how are you doing your recipes? 100% of the oil at hand, then what % water discount?


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## green soap (Jan 10, 2013)

I would like to see what a 100% peanut oil soap is like.  It is mostly monounsaturated (oleic) so will it behave like a castile?

I have been using recycled peanut oil from deep frying as part of my utility liquid soap.  Promising so far.

Looking forward to your results for any oils!


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## lizflowers42 (Jan 10, 2013)

green soap said:


> I would like to see what a 100% peanut oil soap is like.  It is mostly monounsaturated (oleic) so will it behave like a castile?
> 
> I have been using recycled peanut oil from deep frying as part of my utility liquid soap.  Promising so far.
> 
> Looking forward to your results for any oils!


Utility liquid soaps...as in laundry/dish soap? If so that is a brilliant recycling idea! I always wonder what to do after I make eggplant parm!


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## Paintguru (Jan 10, 2013)

As for stuff to monitor (just off the top of my head), I think it might be interesting to monitor pH and hardness over time.  One way to do a hardness test is to find some sort of indenter (ball bearing or some sort of conically shaped item) and put some constant weight on top of it.  You could then measure the width of the indentation, which would give you a relative comparison of the hardness across the samples.  You could do this over time to see how it changes.  You could measure the pH with tape and plot that vs. time too.  This could help people understand what to expect as far as pH reduction/hardening rates if they change their recipe.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Jan 10, 2013)

Good Point, PaintGuru!
Things I will monitor (some will have to be anecdotal/opinion based since I'm not a "real" scientist):
Hardness (indentation or solubility in water?)
pH (with strips)
Lather
Color
Texture
Odor
Anything else?
I could do 24 hours/1 week/1 month/etc
I will add Corn and Peanut oils to the list.
I'm excited! :-D I may start sooner than February...


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## AlchemyandAshes (Jan 10, 2013)

Clemmey said:


> I too would like to try this... how are you doing your recipes? 100% of the oil at hand, then what % water discount?



Each soap will be 100% of a specific oil
Superfat 5%
Distilled water
Gelled
Individual silicone molds
Soaped @115 degrees F 

I was not going to do a water discount and use full 38% water/oil, but I may change that and either master batch my lye or use 30% water/oil. Either way, I will use the same formula for every oil.


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## ToniD (Jan 10, 2013)

Cool.  I too refer to the single oil swap results.

How about butters?  Shea, cocoa?

Also would suggest blind testing.  Preconceived notions will influence how we think something performs.   Have someone else (or a small panel) rate  the attributes that are more subjective using "soap #1, #2, instead of coconut oil, peanut oil etc

Look forward to knowing results!


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## Genny (Jan 10, 2013)

Will you be blogging the experiment?  

I think you should add avocado as well, but that's because I love avocado 

There's another soaper that I've seen that has done this as well and blogged about it.
http://curious-soapmaker.com/big-test-100-one-oil-soaps-part-i.html

I look forward to hearing about how it goes.


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## Genny (Jan 10, 2013)

Will you be blogging the experiment?  

I think you should add avocado as well, but that's because I love avocado 

There's another soaper that I've seen that has done this as well and blogged about it.
http://curious-soapmaker.com/big-test-100-one-oil-soaps-part-i.html

I look forward to hearing about how it goes.


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## thefarmerdaughter (Jan 10, 2013)

the curious soapmakers experiment is very good. But no animal fats were used, so it's not particularly helpful to soapers who use those. 
Thank you A&A for including lard and tallow in your experiment.


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## 2lilboots (Jan 10, 2013)

You are in a rather warm humid climate so this should be a true test on the oils.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Jan 10, 2013)

How could I have missed that experiment?! That's exactly what I had in mind. For some reason, that has never come up in my googling. Brilliant!
I will add trace times to my things monitored.
I will add Avocado.
I don't really want to add butters: expense (this little experiment may get pricy as it is) and they usually aren't readily available at most supermarkets. I was going to try to keep to 12 oils, but I'm already at 15. After this experiment, I may try another batch of oils, like Pumpkin Seed, Sesame, Walnut, Hazelnut, etc and maybe add butters to that.
I will be blogging my experiment and results, and will also post them here.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Jan 10, 2013)

Oh, yes...and blind testing! I will emboss each soap with a number. I was going to emboss each with its name, but a number system is smarter :wink:

It is super humid here in Florida most of the time, but with the AC going, it's not so bad. I will note the temperature in the kitchen when I soap and the temperature in the curing areas. Is there an (easy) way to measure humidity? 
I'm leaving all the soaps unwrapped, since I think that would be another variable that could affect outcome, and even oils that could normally stand the test of time could have a problem with plastic wrapping.
There's another experiment idea right there: How does packaging effect soap longevity or rancidity?
Any takers? :wink:


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## AlchemyandAshes (Jan 10, 2013)

thefarmerdaughter said:


> the curious soapmakers experiment is very good. But no animal fats were used, so it's not particularly helpful to soapers who use those.
> Thank you A&A for including lard and tallow in your experiment.


I don't use animal fats in my soaps personally, but I don't use most of the others in this experiment either... Besides, this isn't an experiment just for me :wink:


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## AlchemyandAshes (Jan 10, 2013)

Updated Oil List:
AVOCADO
CANOLA
CASTOR
COCONUT (LouAna 76 degree)
CORN
GRAPESEED
LARD
OLIVE (Refined)
PALM (Hydrogenated Organic)
PEANUT
RICE BRAN
SAFFLOWER
SOYBEAN
SUNFLOWER
TALLOW

I will use 360 g of each oil and 108 g of water (30% Water:Oil Ratio) with 5% Superfat


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## green soap (Jan 10, 2013)

lizflowers42 said:


> Utility liquid soaps...as in laundry/dish soap? If so that is a brilliant recycling idea! I always wonder what to do after I make eggplant parm!



Yes, utility as in dishes and laundry.

I am married to a southern boy.  We have a lot of used frying oil. I have also recycled used soy oil, but we are phasing out soy completely, in food (GMOs) and soap (DOS).  For liquid soap though, DOS is not an issue.

I have been using about 50% recycled deep frying oil, and 50% CO (new).  So far the peanut coconut combo is working out great.  It works well in laundry and dishes.  I also much prefer peanut oil for deep frying, it has such a high smoking point.  There are peanut allergies though, something to consider.


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## chicklet (Jan 10, 2013)

Wow, Shawnee - this is a huge undertaking for you but I'm so glad you're doing it.  We're all going to be so smart when you get done!    I don't have any other suggestions, but I do like the idea of master batching the lye for consistency, and numbering the bars is a great idea.  Looking forward to your results


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## AlchemyandAshes (Jan 10, 2013)

Ok guys...here is the first entry relating to the Single Oil Soap Experiment on my blog:
http://alchemyandashes.blogspot.com/2013/01/im-up-to-somethingagain.html


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## thefarmerdaughter (Jan 10, 2013)

I really enjoyed reading that! looking forward to the next entry.


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## lizflowers42 (Jan 10, 2013)

AlchemyandAshes said:


> Ok guys...here is the first entry relating to the Single Oil Soap Experiment on my blog:
> http://alchemyandashes.blogspot.com/2013/01/im-up-to-somethingagain.html



I love it!  I have a total girl crush on you!  :-D


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## Genny (Jan 10, 2013)

Love the post!  I left a little comment for you


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## Paintguru (Jan 10, 2013)

Another suggestion to test the hardness/solubility of the soap.  Assuming all of these weight the same amount, you could put a bar into a container of water with a mini-pump of some sort (something to move the water constantly).  These are easily found at pet stores.  Let it sit in the water for a set amount of time and weigh it both before and after submersion.  May want to run a trial on one that you think will be somewhere in the middle to see how long it takes to get a real, measurable weight loss (10% maybe???).  Again, thinking off the top of my head.  Ideally you would want to use as big of a container of water as possible so that the dissolving of the soap doesn't change the ability of the water to dissolve the soap.


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## Gryfonmoon (Jan 10, 2013)

lizflowers42 said:


> I love it!  I have a total girl crush on you!  :-D



Yeah I'm gonna second the fangirling here.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Jan 10, 2013)

lizflowers42 said:


> I love it!  I have a total girl crush on you!  :-D



Well at least SOMEONE still has a crush on lil ol' me... :LOL: Bwahahaha! I will take that as the highest compliment! :wink:


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## AlchemyandAshes (Jan 10, 2013)

Gryfonmoon said:


> Yeah I'm gonna second the fangirling here.



Two in one night! Man, if my head keeps swelling, I may not be able to fit through the door :wink:


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## lizflowers42 (Jan 27, 2013)

How is the project coming along?


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## 2lilboots (Jan 28, 2013)

Oh come on we all have a girl crush on A&A.  Her soaps are awesome and she is smart as the dickens.  She is so creative with the information she has that accompany her soaps.  I bow before your awesomeness A&A!


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## AlchemyandAshes (Feb 2, 2013)

HELP! 
I have all of my supplies ready to go for this experiment...but I CAN NOT for the life of me find RENDERED TALLOW anywhere locally! I can purchase 1 quart from Essential Depot for $7.49...plus $15.75 shipping!!! They are about an hour drive from me, and I may consider it if I don't have any other options. I don't even use animal fats in my soaps so I would only be using it for this experiment. I've checked all the local grocery stores, and can find the bulk fat, but would have to render it myself, which I'd highly prefer not to do. The local butcher also only carries it unrendered.

Any suggestions? Anyone have the Tallow hook-up?


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## marghewitt (Feb 2, 2013)

Wow Thank you! I am looking forward to keeping up with this thread and the results.


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## thefarmerdaughter (Feb 2, 2013)

It's a long shot but is there maybe another soaper in your area, who might be already rendering it and might sell some to you....?


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## Cherry Bomb (Feb 2, 2013)

AlchemyandAshes said:


> Oh, yes...and blind testing! I will emboss each soap with a number. I was going to emboss each with its name, but a number system is smarter :wink:
> 
> It is super humid here in Florida most of the time, but with the AC going, it's not so bad. I will note the temperature in the kitchen when I soap and the temperature in the curing areas. Is there an (easy) way to measure humidity?
> I'm leaving all the soaps unwrapped, since I think that would be another variable that could affect outcome, and even oils that could normally stand the test of time could have a problem with plastic wrapping. There's another experiment idea right there: How does packaging effect soap longevity or rancidity?
> Any takers? :wink:




Hello AlchemyandAshes! It just so happens that I can help you figure out your % relative humidity (RH) in your rooms if you'd like! I will do my best to explain. The actual formulas are time consuming but pretty basic once you have the information you need. I can't picture anyone wanting to do math formulas every morning! Well, maybe I would at first and then I would get bored or tired! lol There are humidity calculators online and this is the easiest one I have found. You will need to know the dew point of outside temp and the temp in the room you are using. You can easily get the dew point of the day by asking Siri (lol) or using THe Weather Channel website. 

http://www.weather.com/maps/maptype/currentweatherusnational/uscurrentdewpoints_large.html

Just go to maps/current weather/ and at the bottom of the map just select dew points) 

Then go to this website and plug in your current temp of the room you are in and the dew point and hit calculate. It will give you the % of relative humidity in that room. 

http://andrew.rsmas.miami.edu/bmcnoldy/Humidity.html

I hope the links work and that this MSG is not confusing! I tried my best to help you out


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## nebetmiw (Feb 2, 2013)

AlchemyandAshes said:


> I find myself constantly referring to the Zen Soaps Single Oil Soap Swap because I find it so interesting, and think it is helpful to determine which oil you may or may not want to use in your formula.
> 
> However, part of me wishes it was a bit more "scientific"...since the single oil soaps were made for a "swap" by different people in different environments with different water and such, there's no real way to determine what caused the DOS, or to really validate some of the results.
> 
> ...



There was someone many years ago on this forum that did this.  It was not a swap either and they made a blog about it.  I do not remember who for I saw it back when I joined and by then it had been a few years.  Glad to see it done again it is real interesting and good help for the new people.


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## Trxflyer (Feb 14, 2013)

AlchemyandAshes said:


> HELP!
> I have all of my supplies ready to go for this experiment...but I CAN NOT for the life of me find RENDERED TALLOW anywhere locally! I can purchase 1 quart from Essential Depot for $7.49...plus $15.75 shipping!!! They are about an hour drive from me, and I may consider it if I don't have any other options. I don't even use animal fats in my soaps so I would only be using it for this experiment. I've checked all the local grocery stores, and can find the bulk fat, but would have to render it myself, which I'd highly prefer not to do. The local butcher also only carries it unrendered.
> 
> Any suggestions? Anyone have the Tallow hook-up?



Big experiment about to begin?


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## AlchemyandAshes (Feb 15, 2013)

Well, since my search for Tallow (in small amounts) only led me to Essential Depot, I'm going to order it this week...plus they sent me a 20% off my entire order coupon, so that seals the deal  I wanted to have everything at once so there wouldn't be much variance in ambient temperature and what not. Hopefully I can get this show on the road next week!


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## lizflowers42 (Feb 15, 2013)

Exciting!


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## AlchemyandAshes (Feb 15, 2013)

Tallow order placed! (Finally!)


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## AlchemyandAshes (Feb 20, 2013)

Got my Tallow! Experiment to commence on Friday!


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## AlchemyandAshes (Feb 21, 2013)

The anticipation is killing me...


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## AngelMomma (Feb 21, 2013)

Beauty to the OCD eye!!!  I'm so excited that you are doing this :smile:


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## Trxflyer (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm with AngelMomma.  Nice!


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## AlchemyandAshes (Feb 22, 2013)

Phase One Complete...or almost, I should say.
All oils have been soaped. 10 were unmolded after 24 hours. 5 are still too soft to unmold, so I will check again in the morning, but will probably leave them another 24 hours.
I will start a new thread titled "Single Oil Soap Experiment : Phase 1" with all the updated information and pictures (hopefully) on Monday. I'm already a little surprised at some of the early results!


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## Badger (Feb 22, 2013)

Looking forward to hearing more about how the experiment turns out!


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## melstan775 (Feb 22, 2013)

Woot! Any hints about results so far?


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## green soap (Feb 22, 2013)

Are you going you mark them or stamp them to differentiate them?  

Looking forward to reading about your results.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Feb 22, 2013)

green soap said:


> Are you going you mark them or stamp them to differentiate them?
> 
> Looking forward to reading about your results.



Yes...I cut them in half, and carved a number and "a" or "b" so that they can be cured in separate environments, one in a damp bathroom and one in a dry closet.
I started to stamp them with plastic embossers but the Tallow started crumbling because it was already so hard...so I used a clay tool to "scratch" their assigned number into them.
I have a master list with their assigned numbers for "blind study" purposes, so my testers won't have preconceived notions.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Feb 22, 2013)

melstan775 said:


> Woot! Any hints about results so far?



Five oils were too soft still to unmold after 24 hours...can you guess which ones?


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## hlee (Feb 22, 2013)

No, but anxious to hear.
Love that you are doing this!


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## AngelMomma (Feb 22, 2013)

Canola, Soybean, Sunflower, Olive and Safflower........or maybe Castor:roll:


Its cool how already you can see a difference in colors.  Did you gel them?  I think I missed that detail somewhere.


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## green soap (Feb 22, 2013)

AlchemyandAshes said:


> Five oils were too soft still to unmold after 24 hours...can you guess which ones?



Canola, castor, safflower, sunflower and grape-seed?


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## AlchemyandAshes (Feb 22, 2013)

And the Top 5 Oils Too Soft To Unmold In 24 Hours Goes To:
Corn 
Grapeseed
Rice Bran
Soybean
Sunflower


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## melstan775 (Feb 23, 2013)

AlchemyandAshes said:


> And the Top 5 Oils Too Soft To Unmold In 24 Hours Goes To:
> Corn
> Grapeseed
> Rice Bran
> ...



Only sunflower and soybean were guessed, and grapeseed.  I would have thought since rice bran is used for drying purposes in dry oils, it would dry up fast enough,  oh well.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Feb 23, 2013)

melstan775 said:


> I would have thought since rice bran is used for drying purposes in dry oils, it would dry up fast enough,  oh well.



Actually Rice Bran is quite moisturizing and very similar in make up to Olive Oil. It's great for dry or sensitive skin 
I figured Sunflower, Grapeseed, Safflower, Olive, Corn, Soybean and Canola would be too soft. Oddly enough, Olive was hard as a rock in about 18 hours! Castor was also surprising with hardness and how fast it traced...faster than Tallow!
My lye solution was a 41% concentration, btw.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Feb 23, 2013)

Just unmolded Rice Bran after 38 hours...still soft, but I was able to get it out without damage. Grapeseed is still like cream cheese. Soybean, Sunflower, and Corn are firmer, but not ready to unmold. Will check again tonight!


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## lizflowers42 (Feb 23, 2013)

How exciting!


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## AlchemyandAshes (Feb 25, 2013)

Okay, here we are 4 days later...and I was finally able to unmold Corn and Soybean...Sunflower and Grapeseed are still too soft to unmold without squishing them too much. I will do more testing on them once I can remove the last two from the mold. I don't want to do the freezer trick because I'm trying to test how they act on their own. I will give full report after the last 2 unmold, but for now, preliminary results are:

Hardest: 1. Tallow 2. Palm 3. Coconut (in that order) (I could have unmolded these in 6 hours they were so hard)
Softest: 1. Grapeseed 2. Sunflower 3. Soybean
Quickest to trace: 1. Castor 2. Tallow 3. Palm
Slowest to trace: 1. Grapeseed 2. Safflower 3. Sunflower

Lard has a distinct (and strong) smell even after unmolding. Tallow had a strong scent in the mold, but not after unmolding.
Safflower, Soybean, Avocado, Grapeseed, and Canola all began separating in the mold, but I was able to hand stir them in the mold back to emulsion before insulating.
Tallow is whitest, Rice Bran is the most yellow.


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## hoegarden (Feb 25, 2013)

That is a very comprehensive testing..


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## cliff (Feb 25, 2013)

Interesting. I would be curious to see the results. Good luck!


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## hoegarden (Mar 1, 2013)

So after a few more days, are the soaps still intact?


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## 2lilboots (Mar 1, 2013)

Glad to know I wasn't the only one who noticed the strong smell of lard in a soap.  The bars I made with lard do not have that smell anymore, but they sure did the first month and a half.


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## thefarmerdaughter (Mar 1, 2013)

I'm curious about the odor from the lard soap. Although I have read about other soaper's incountering it, I have never experienced it myself. (I've never made a loaf that didn't have lard in it) How would you describe it? Is it the odor of the lard itself?


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## sabon (Mar 1, 2013)

AlchemyandAshes said:


> Actually Rice Bran is quite moisturizing and very similar in make up to Olive Oil. It's great for dry or sensitive skin
> I figured Sunflower, Grapeseed, Safflower, Olive, Corn, Soybean and Canola would be too soft. Oddly enough, Olive was hard as a rock in about 18 hours! Castor was also surprising with hardness and how fast it traced...faster than Tallow!
> My lye solution was a 41% concentration, btw.



Did you use refined castor oil? I am asking because I once tried making soap using castor oil 45 percent and the rest coconut, waited 3 days but didn't harden, well, actually looked hard from outside, but was soft and creamy inside.Finally, I rebatched with salt and got a hard bar of soap. I used cold pressed unrefined castor oil and coconut oils. wonder if that was what made the difference.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Mar 1, 2013)

thefarmerdaughter said:


> I'm curious about the odor from the lard soap. Although I have read about other soaper's incountering it, I have never experienced it myself. (I've never made a loaf that didn't have lard in it) How would you describe it? Is it the odor of the lard itself?



Yeah, it reminds me of taking salt pork out of the package to make collard greens...I don't know how else to describe it 

I had my husband and 12 year old "blind smell test" them, and they both noticed a smell to the lard soap. My 12 year old also noticed a smell to Palm, Peanut, and Castor, oddly enough. My husband only thought Lard had a slight smell. I think the Rice Bran smells a little like Oatmeal, and the Grapeseed almost smells a little "off", like not rancid but maybe heading that way. Weird.

I finally removed Grapeseed and Sunflower after 5 days...Grapeseed was so squishy still that its a mangled looking square, but this isn't about looks 

I'm doing lather & pH tests today!


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## AlchemyandAshes (Mar 1, 2013)

sabon said:


> Did you use refined castor oil? I am asking because I once tried making soap using castor oil 45 percent and the rest coconut, waited 3 days but didn't harden, well, actually looked hard from outside, but was soft and creamy inside.Finally, I rebatched with salt and got a hard bar of soap. I used cold pressed unrefined castor oil and coconut oils. wonder if that was what made the difference.



I used cold pressed Castor Oil from WSP. I was actually surprised how quickly it traced. I use it in all my formulas, and get quick trace usually, but I also soap warmer with a liquid discount and 30% Coconut...so I wouldn't have necessarily attributed much of my quick trace to Castor. Ya learn something new everyday, right?!


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## DWinMadison (Mar 1, 2013)

Shawnee, I've finally had a chance to check in on your experiment.  Wow...you are a juggernuat! I'm a) too cheap to buy the oils and lye for this experiment b) too lazy to carry it out and 3) too disorganized to keep it all organized.  Kudos to you!  I know you really won't have definitive results until to see how they preform long-term, but what are your take-aways thus far?  Anything that would change your basic soap formulations?


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## nebetmiw (Mar 1, 2013)

Great work.  I would do another test on safflower and sunflower but using the HO versions of both.  See is there is a differance in how they set up.

I know when I made a high lard amount soap I had a slight bacon smell in the bathroom.  Not unpleasent, unless you consider it making you want to eat bacon.  That was a 50% lard soap unscented.  I think once we get use to a smell we do not smell it anymore.  At that point it takes others not use to it to see if it is there.  It was only the first bar I smelled it with and not rest of loaf.  I have smell problems with my cats too can't smell there box at all.  I always ask someone new to the house if they can smell it.  So far so good guess pine pellet litter works real well there.


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## thefarmerdaughter (Mar 1, 2013)

AlchemyandAshes said:


> Yeah, it reminds me of taking salt pork out of the package to make collard greens...I don't know how else to describe it



 good reference

Someone brought up sunflower oil. Every time I soap with it, even though I only use it at  10-15%. It makes my whole batch smell like roasted sunflower seeds.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Mar 1, 2013)

DWinMadison said:


> Shawnee, I've finally had a chance to check in on your experiment.  Wow...you are a juggernuat! I'm a) too cheap to buy the oils and lye for this experiment b) too lazy to carry it out and 3) too disorganized to keep it all organized.  Kudos to you!  I know you really won't have definitive results until to see how they preform long-term, but what are your take-aways thus far?  Anything that would change your basic soap formulations?



As for the oils I currently use, I think Castor oil has surprised me as far as how fast it traced, how hard it was after 24 hours...but also with the lather test (not a lot), the lowest pH, and dissolved the quickest. Not what I expected at all! Also, Palm was disappointing as a stand alone oil, and is making me rethink its use. It's a good cost effective filler as far as hardness goes...but that may be it. I currently use it at about 20% of my recipe.
One thing that hasn't changed my opinion is the animal oils - Lard and Tallow. Once again, they may be cost effective fillers, but I'm not impressed with lather or how they made my skin feel. Lard has a distinct odor, and Tallow was just hard. They both made beautiful creamy looking soaps, but lather? Not so much. Tallow had the highest pH, and Lard was right in the middle at 10 (most oils were).
The oil that surprised me with lather is Peanut! I did not have high hopes for it. Corn and Grapeseed oil have a strong odor, and Rice Bran smells a bit like oatmeal. Tallow had an odor at first but it dissipated after unmolding, as did Lard, but not as much. Coconut, Palm, and Tallow took the longest to dissolve.
I'm trying to finish up all the preliminary tests so I can post them at once. I'll have to redirect to my blog for most of the pictures, unless someone can tell me a super easy way of uploading about 40 pictures at a time to the forum


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## Badger (Mar 1, 2013)

Thank you for doing this, it has been fascinating to hear the results that you have been having with this experiment.  I am a bit surprised about the peanut oil also, that is interesting to notice.  I would love to try it and see how it works, but I have a friend that is deathly allergic to them and I would hate for her to have an allergic reaction.


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## nebetmiw (Mar 1, 2013)

This is why haveing a combo of oils works best when making soap.  Single oil soap is not all that but when combined then you have something.


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## DWinMadison (Mar 1, 2013)

I think we all would agree with you about single-oil soaps. What Shawnee has done helps her, and us, understand the characteristics different oils bring to soap.  It helps us better understand how to mix oils for a better outcome.


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## DWinMadison (Mar 2, 2013)

Based on Shawnee's experiment, I bought some peanut oil at Kroger...(on sale for $.17/ounce).  What' the max you'd recommend as a % of the entire recipe...other oils will definitely be olive, palm, coconut, gv shortening.  Do you think peanut can replace castor for lather?


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## green soap (Mar 2, 2013)

Shawnee, thank you so much for including peanut oil in your experiment.  I requested it because I Have been using it in liquid soap.  I am so glad the CP version is interesting as well.

DWinMadison, I asked for peanut because we have switched to peanut oil for deep frying.  I recycle my deep frying oil and make it into utility liquid soap for laundry, or dishes (different formulas but all use some recycled oil).  DH does the laundry and he told me that he needs to use less of the peanut-coconut liquid soap to get a load clean.  This is compared to coconut-soy, and to coconut-olive.  All these oils have low stearic acid in their fatty acid composition, so they are good for liquid soap (soap stays clear). 

So long answer and no answer.  I have only used it in liquid soap in an effort to recycle the oil.  I have made CP soap out of recycled oil but I rather not go that route in my business at the moment.  If I was to use pristine peanut oil in CP I would replace the olive on my bastille recipe, to have enough of the peanut to tell the effect on the soap.  I entered into soapCalc and this puts the linoleic a little higher than i would like.  I would use ROE or mix in a little olive and decrease the total peanut %.  50% peanut seems like a safe amount, if you do not add oils high in linoleic and/or linolenic.  

Let's see if anyone who has used it in a CP recipe chimes in.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Mar 3, 2013)

I don't use Peanut Oil in my formulas, so I can't say from experience how much would give the lather benefit...I would start with 20% and build on that. Since the test is still underway, I don't know how well it holds up to rancidity/DOS. I should mention I do have a Kinetico water softener, so that does contribute to some of my lather results, though I will admit, I'm not sure to what extent.
Here's a picture of Peanut lather:


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## AlchemyandAshes (Mar 3, 2013)

And for reference, here's a picture of Coconut lather:


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## AlchemyandAshes (Mar 3, 2013)

And Castor Lather:


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## DWinMadison (Mar 3, 2013)

AlchemyandAshes said:


> I don't use Peanut Oil in my formulas, so I can't say from experience how much would give the lather benefit...I would start with 20% and build on that. Since the test is still underway, I don't know how well it holds up to rancidity/DOS. I should mention I do have a Kinetico water softener, so that does contribute to some of my lather results, though I will admit, I'm not sure to what extent.
> Here's a picture of Peanut lather:



So maybe...?
20% olive
20% palm
20% coconut
20% GV shortening
15% peanut
5% Castor


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## DWinMadison (Mar 3, 2013)

Shawnee, Did you it any TD in your bars?  They are so white!


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## AlchemyandAshes (Mar 3, 2013)

DWinMadison said:


> So maybe...?
> 20% olive
> 20% palm
> 20% coconut
> ...



Well, your values all fall right down the middle on SoapCalc, so it's a pretty balanced recipe. I don't use SoapCalc numbers as the "end all be all" of soap qualities (we all know Castille or salt bar recipes fail on SoapCalc, but can be great in real life), but it does help give an idea of end product. In my personal opinion, I don't find the need to use so many different ingredients to achieve the same end product, like GV Shortening and Palm. They both contribute very similar qualities (since GV Shortening contains Tallow & Palm if you're using the same variety as SoapCalc). You COULD use one or the other. I also like to consider what the soap's purpose will be. Like a facial soap for sensitive skin or a mechanics soap, for example, would require totally different formulas. A formula with a low cleansing value may be great for facial soap, but terrible for mechanics soap. 
I say go for it and let us know YOUR opinion of it.


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## AlchemyandAshes (Mar 3, 2013)

DWinMadison said:


> Shawnee, Did you it any TD in your bars?  They are so white!



Nope! That's just the pure oil colors.


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