# Sandalwood - anyone think it's worth the price?



## RogueRose (Jan 25, 2020)

I'd really like to buy some sandalwood EO as it was one for the main scents of a Vera Wang cologne I had back in my college days and it was one of the only scents that wasn't some light/fruity "unisex" cologne that most all men seemed to wear.  It was definitely a guys scent and the price was outrageous ($120+ for a 1oz bottle & that was w/ a steep employee discount).  Never had so many complements on a scent before, from both women and men, so it seems like it is universally liked.  IDK what the other scents were that were mixed in with it, but I still have it and could probably figure it out.  

I'm wondering if anyone uses this in their soaps. I can't justify the price as it stands now and the FO just don't do it justice - nothing close from what I've found.  

I am hoping I can find enough people who love this scent that I'll order a large amount from one of the 5 suppliers (direct from the distillers) I've managed to dig up over the years, which is much cheaper than the online resellers, but they still have a fairly large size minimum order (and it's international so, shipping from Aus or Asia area).  

I'd like to hear some recipes or mixes any of you have found to be especially nice with this scent.  I'm considering some cedarwood to try in it's place as a less expensive testing mix, but it just doesn't do it justice and isn't very close - but it's more masculine at least.  

If you have any experience, please let me know, in soaps, balms, oils, or any products, I'm interested and if you have interest in getting some at a very reasonable markdown from the outrageous pricing of online retailers, please let me know as well, I think it will take some time to find enough people to make it worth while, but I know you are out there and would probably love to be able to make more of this w/o going broke, so please let me know!


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## lsg (Jan 25, 2020)

I use a good sandalwood FO instead of the EO.


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## Obsidian (Jan 25, 2020)

I don't think any expensive EO is worth it for soap. Maybe for a lotion or perfume for personal use.


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## Carly B (Jan 25, 2020)

I agree with both @Obsidian and @lsg.  If you are willing to try a fragrance oil, I highly recommend Mysore Sandalwood from Oregon Trail.  It is the best sandalwood FO I have found.


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## soapmaker (Jan 25, 2020)

Carly B said:


> I agree with both @Obsidian and @lsg.  If you are willing to try a fragrance oil, I highly recommend Mysore Sandalwood from Oregon Trail.  It is the best sandalwood FO I have found.


Have you ever compared it WSP's Sandalwood?


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## Carly B (Jan 25, 2020)

soapmaker said:


> Have you ever compared it WSP's Sandalwood?



No. At least I don't think so.  I haven't shopped at WSP for over 10 years now.


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## DonS (Jan 26, 2020)

Carly B said:


> No. At least I don't think so.  I haven't shopped at WSP for over 10 years now.


I was using Suzie's (owner of Oregon Trail) Sophisticated Sandalwood just yesterday.  Not the best behaving in CP...super accelerated trace.  I mean...1/2 the time or less of their Lavender Fields FO I was using in another batch.  I was soaping at 120 deg for oils and lye water.  Oils are olive, 76 deg palm, and coconut.  Only other additive is Sodium Lactate.  For the next batch I make I will use their Mysore Sandalwood and see if it traces at psycho speed.  Yesterday was my very first time making CP soap by the way!!!

Oh...and question for everybody about FO scent usage rates for CP soap.  I come across usage rate numbers from 3.31% to 5.58% which is normal, I suppose, depending on the FO.  That all said, is that percentage for the oils only or the oils + water/lye?  I have seen conflicting information.    Yesterday I was using the oil only weight percentage.

Oh...one more thing.  Acronym usage.  FO is Fragrance Oil.  EO is Essential Oil.  CP means Cold Process soap.  I see acronyms being tossed around but I don't see a glossary.  Would someone point me to one?  *WHAT THE HECK IS WSP?*


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## cmzaha (Jan 26, 2020)

WSP is Wholesalesuppliesplus.com one of the larger suppliers. Here is a link to check out for acronyms https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/the-acronym-and-abbreviation-definition-thread.51841/


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## DonS (Jan 26, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> WSP is Wholesalesuppliesplus.com one of the larger suppliers. Here is a link to check out for acronyms https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/the-acronym-and-abbreviation-definition-thread.51841/


Thank you!  I now have a good resource for acronyms.  I will have to check out WSP.  Anything that I should know about them?

Anyway, does anybody have a answer around the FO usage rates and if I should take the lye+water weight or not?  Again, on certain websites they generically say to only take the weight of the oils into account.  On others, it says to do both.  I guess I took the safer road by using the oil weight as my basis.  That all said, when the water evaporates from the CP soap that would leave a higher usage rate than one would not if the calculation was based upon all ingredients...would it not?

As for super fast tracing, I think I have the answer to that issue:  Bring the base oils to light trace FIRST.  Then, whisk in the FO (not stick blend).  Does this sound reasonable?


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## lsg (Jan 26, 2020)

FO usage rates are figured on the total amount of oils/fats.  Most reliable suppliers will list the maximum usage rate for soaps, lotions etc.   You might use more slow moving oils, (ones that are liquid at room temp.) instead of butters, palm, lard, etc.  Here is more info. on accelerating FOs.

https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-...how-to-work-with-accelerating-fragrance-oils/


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## Mobjack Bay (Jan 26, 2020)

I read on Wikipedia that the price of sandalwood EO is so high because the slow growing tree is relatively rare due to unsustainable harvesting in the past.


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## soapmaker (Jan 26, 2020)

DonS said:


> As for super fast tracing, I think I have the answer to that issue:  Bring the base oils to light trace FIRST.  Then, whisk in the FO (not stick blend).  Does this sound reasonable?


Definitely reasonable. Don't stick blend accelerating FO or EO. Also soap cooler, I soap at around 90-95 with accelerating oils and no water discount. I don't know your percentages of oils in your recicpe but using a high percentage of olive or sunflower oil slows trace. (liquid oils)


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## FreeBird (Jan 26, 2020)

@RogueRose  Because I am an EO snob I do use a sandlewoods blend from The Perfumery in soaps. It is spectacular in blends. 
There are other EOs that can take up the slack and the blend comes through as 'just' sandlewood. 
However since the fires down under I may not be able to afford even the SW blend much longer.

(I have never used FOs except in the 8 candles I make but those are for the 'primatives' market.)


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## Carly B (Jan 26, 2020)

DonS said:


> I was using Suzie's (owner of Oregon Trail) Sophisticated Sandalwood just yesterday.  Not the best behaving in CP...super accelerated trace.  I mean...1/2 the time or less of their Lavender Fields FO I was using in another batch.  I was soaping at 120 deg for oils and lye water.  Oils are olive, 76 deg palm, and coconut.  Only other additive is Sodium Lactate.  For the next batch I make I will use their Mysore Sandalwood and see if it traces at psycho speed.  Yesterday was my very first time making CP soap by the way!!!



I made CP with the Mysore Sandalwood, and used clay as a colorant.  It behaved fine.

And congrats on your first CP soap!


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## DonS (Jan 26, 2020)

lsg said:


> FO usage rates are figured on the total amount of oils/fats.  Most reliable suppliers will list the maximum usage rate for soaps, lotions etc.   You might use more slow moving oils, (ones that are liquid at room temp.) instead of butters, palm, lard, etc.  Here is more info. on accelerating FOs.
> 
> https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-...how-to-work-with-accelerating-fragrance-oils/


Thanks!



soapmaker said:


> Definitely reasonable. Don't stick blend accelerating FO or EO. Also soap cooler, I soap at around 90-95 with accelerating oils and no water discount. I don't know your percentages of oils in your recicpe but using a high percentage of olive or sunflower oil slows trace. (liquid oils)


I appreciate this!  I will definitely add the FO as the very last step, and whisk it in.  This would be after achieving light trace.  As for temps...I am using 15oz Olive, 11 oz palm, 8 oz coconut.  Two of my oils are not exactly liquid at room temp.  Figure maybe 110 deg?



Carly B said:


> I made CP with the Mysore Sandalwood, and used clay as a colorant.  It behaved fine.
> 
> And congrats on your first CP soap!


Thanks for this info.   Yeah, I am pretty proud of the results.     I will be sure and use the Mysore Sandalwood in my next batch.  I am just starting out, so I am avoiding colorants and other additives other than FO or EO/FO blends until I get better at what I am doing.


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## Gaisy59 (Jan 27, 2020)

RogueRose said:


> I'd really like to buy some sandalwood EO as it was one for the main scents of a Vera Wang cologne I had back in my college days and it was one of the only scents that wasn't some light/fruity "unisex" cologne that most all men seemed to wear.  It was definitely a guys scent and the price was outrageous ($120+ for a 1oz bottle & that was w/ a steep employee discount).  Never had so many complements on a scent before, from both women and men, so it seems like it is universally liked.  IDK what the other scents were that were mixed in with it, but I still have it and could probably figure it out.
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone uses this in their soaps. I can't justify the price as it stands now and the FO just don't do it justice - nothing close from what I've found.
> 
> ...



Getting back to the original question...i love sandalwood and used 80.00 worth in my soap and did not get a smell at all. I could have cried. There was a hint but it faded fast. Not worth using this precious scent in soap. I would suggest maybe a lotion if only to keep it around longer.


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## JuliaNegusuk (Jan 27, 2020)

I use commercial sandalwood in my soap, which seems to include essential oils and "fragrance materials" so falls between being an EO and an FO.  Amyris is also supposed to smell like sandalwood, also called west indian sandalwood.  But I have never tried it.  My supplier (in the uk unfortunately) also does an amyris/sandalwwod blend.  These options are all at least 10% of the cost of real sandalwood or less.  I'm sure there are US suppliers that will do something similar.  It is a rare thing for the UK to have something that the US doesn't!


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## Mjsid (Jan 27, 2020)

Carly B said:


> No. At least I don't think so.  I haven't shopped at WSP for over 10 years now.


Who do you use instead of WSP?


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## Carly B (Jan 27, 2020)

Mjsid said:


> Who do you use instead of WSP?



Depends on what I am shopping for.
For fragrance and micas, primarily Nurture Soap, although I also sometimes use Fragrance Buddy, Nature's Garden, Rustic Escentuals, or Oregon Trail for certain fragrances.


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## Kcryss (Jan 28, 2020)

I don't like to use Sandlewood EO because I don't agree with needing to kill a tree to get it. IMO, sometimes it's best to use a FO.


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## Amy Robinson (Jan 29, 2020)

JuliaNegusuk said:


> I use commercial sandalwood in my soap, which seems to include essential oils and "fragrance materials" so falls between being an EO and an FO.  Amyris is also supposed to smell like sandalwood, also called west indian sandalwood.  But I have never tried it.  My supplier (in the uk unfortunately) also does an amyris/sandalwwod blend.  These options are all at least 10% of the cost of real sandalwood or less.  I'm sure there are US suppliers that will do something similar.  It is a rare thing for the UK to have something that the US doesn't!


Hi, How did you find the Sandlewood/Amyris Blend.  Did it hold up well?, I thought about giving it a try.


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## JuliaNegusuk (Jan 30, 2020)

Hi Amy.  Sorry I haven't tried the sandalwood/amyris blend.  I only noticed it when I was looking up stuff for this post.  I have not seen it before so it must be a fairly new product.  The commercial sandalwood is a strong scent and holds well. But Soap Kitchen keep changing the description so they don't entirely seem to now what it is, or at least are learning new things about it all the time.  I've been using it for several years and only fairly recently they said it should be described as "parfum" as the blend of EOs was secret to their supplier.  Then they updated the description again to say it contained "fragrance materials".   Also being strong you don't need so much of it.  I use it at about 2%.   My supplier is Soap Kitchen if you want to give either of these a try.

Cheers


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## Amy Robinson (Feb 8, 2020)

Thank you for your advice, I might just give the sandalwood/amyris blend a try.


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## lsg (Feb 8, 2020)

The amyris I bought doesn't have much of a scent.


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## cmzaha (Feb 8, 2020)

lsg said:


> FO usage rates are figured on the total amount of oils/fats.  Most reliable suppliers will list the maximum usage rate for soaps, lotions etc.   You might use more slow moving oils, (ones that are liquid at room temp.) instead of butters, palm, lard, etc.  Here is more info. on accelerating FOs.
> 
> https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-...how-to-work-with-accelerating-fragrance-oils/


I am not trying to start any arguments here, but I would really like to see where it is stated it is only used as a percentage of the oils, maybe this is the number the suppliers use in their calculators but where did the usage factor originate, is it from the manufacturer? The manufacturer my DB comes from only supplies the IFRA, and nothing else on the Certificate they send out. Even IFRA does not state the usage rate is based on oil weight. Not all liquid evaporates from soap and we also have other additives. When I make salt bars I am now adding a lot more weight to my soap since I use 100% of my oil weight and you can bet I up the fragrance usage. 

To answer the original question, no I do not use Sandalwood EO as the cost is prohibitive. While Amyris smells good is just is not Sandalwood.  Australian Sandalwood is $700-1900.00 lb.


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## lsg (Feb 8, 2020)

cmzaha, when I started making soap it seems the standard advice was to use total oil weight.  It seems that there is conflicting advice on the Internet.  Some say to use total weight of soap while others say use total weight of oils.

This from https://www.soapalooza.com/blog/2013/12/how-much-fragrance-oil-should-i-use/
"Cold Process Soap: .5 oz to .8 oz per lb of base oils (3 – 5%)."

https://www.elementsbathandbody.com/Testing-Fragrances-in-CP-Soap/ states, ".5 oz to 1 oz FO per pound of soap oils is fairly standard."


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## Kcryss (Feb 9, 2020)

lsg said:


> cmzaha, when I started making soap it seems the standard advice was to use total oil weight.  It seems that there is conflicting advice on the Internet.  Some say to use total weight of soap while others say use total weight of oils.
> 
> This from https://www.soapalooza.com/blog/2013/12/how-much-fragrance-oil-should-i-use/
> "Cold Process Soap: .5 oz to .8 oz per lb of base oils (3 – 5%)."
> ...



I see a lot of the same thing and it always confuses me to some degree. I've never come across anything indicating how much to use for HP, which is what I do so I just use what is recommended for cold process. Should the amount be different for HP?


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## lsg (Feb 9, 2020)

I can't speak for the others, but I use the same amount in HP.  I don't do HP very often, so others may have  more informed advice.  Advice from Soap Queen  is " Rebatch Soap: 0.4 ounces per pound."  Brambleberry.com fragrance calculator does not have an option for HP soap, but does have a "rebatch" option.


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## Kcryss (Feb 9, 2020)

lsg said:


> I can't speak for the others, but I use the same amount in HP.  I don't do HP very often, so others may have  more informed advice.  Advice from Soap Queen  is " Rebatch Soap: 0.4 ounces per pound."  Brambleberry.com fragrance calculator does not have an option for HP soap, but does have a "rebatch" option.



That's interesting. I would not have thought to think of it as rebatch, but it does make sense since the fragrance is added after the cook.


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## cmzaha (Feb 9, 2020)

lsg said:


> cmzaha, when I started making soap it seems the standard advice was to use total oil weight.  It seems that there is conflicting advice on the Internet.  Some say to use total weight of soap while others say use total weight of oils.
> 
> This from https://www.soapalooza.com/blog/2013/12/how-much-fragrance-oil-should-i-use/
> "Cold Process Soap: .5 oz to .8 oz per lb of base oils (3 – 5%)."
> ...


When I started the recommendation was also using oil weight. I really started questioning this when IFRA came into play. So they state soap Catagory 9 8% usage rate. Rate of what? This is why I question IFRA guidelines. Until IFRA guidelines came out I really never questioned the 1 oz ppo or 6%, but I normally used what worked in my soap. Also, it is not mandatory for Fragrance suppliers to submit their fo's for testing. I just think more soapmakers are questioning how the rate is based. I do usually find 6-6.8% of my total oil works for my fragrances, and feel we still need to implement common sense
.


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## maxine289 (Feb 10, 2020)

Yes, this is a very confusing topic. I like soap with a lot of scent but I also want to be safe.  The IFRA guidelines may not be perfect, or even accurate, but they are some sort of a guide for a substance that can be irritating to the skin.  I assume that IFRA is basing the usage rate on the total amount of the thing being produced, i.e. total soap recipe.   But since I don't know for sure, I tend to try and find FO's with minimum rates of 9%.  If FO has an IRFA usage rate of 9% or more, I use FO at the rate of 6% of the total recipe. So for a 94 oz. total of oils, lye & liquid, I would use 5.64 oz. (6% of 94 oz.).  But if the IFRA rate is only 6% (about 1 oz./lb. of oil) I would only use 3.8 oz. FO because 5.64 oz. would be 8.8% of oils, which would exceed the IRFA of 6% for that particular FO.  I may be being overly cautious, but it makes me feel better.


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## IrishLass (Feb 10, 2020)

From the beginning of my soaping endeavors, I was taught to calculate FO as per pound of oils, and that's what I continue to do. Ever since reading through my copy of Essential Oil Safety by Tisserand/Young in which they shed some pretty interesting light on the infrastructure of IFRA and how they determine their guidelines, I no longer put them (IFRA's guidelines) on a lofty pedestal like I used to do. As it turns out, the per pound of oil usage rate of the FOs that I use turns out to be lower than the their max use guidelines anyway.


IrishLass


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