# I Hate to Ask, but I'm Confused



## BrewerGeorge (Jan 28, 2016)

Sorry to do this because I know it's redundant to info that's already in these threads, but there is SO MUCH info that I'm confused.

What's the current "state of the art" method for GLS?  I've read the BIG thread several times, and I've read/watched Irish's recent tutorial.  But there's creamy vs clear, hot glycerin vs water dissolve, cooked vs not cooked, PS20 vs PS80, and all kinds of other subtle distinctions that have my head spinning.

So I've got a quart of glycerin.  I've got a few pounds of KOH, and all the typical oils, scents and colors from making bar soap. I even have some stearic acid.  And I want to try GLS tonight.  Can somebody cut through all the fog and just tell me what to do?


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## DeeAnna (Jan 28, 2016)

You are asking a bunch of opinionated soapers to tell you to do -- liquid soapers at that???? Brave man!  Here's my opinion!

***

1. Make your first LS using a recipe that will give you a clear liquid soap when diluted. This will make it easier to troubleshoot problems, should that be needed. After that, the field is open.

To that end, a good place to start is IL's recipe for general hand and body use --
65% Olive Oil
25% Coconut Oil
10% Castor Oil

Another good recipe would be Susie's LS for laundry -- either 100% coconut oil OR a blend of 95% CO + 5% castor.

To make very roughly 1 quart of diluted liquid soap, size your recipe to use 250 g to 300 g of oils (9 oz to 11 oz).

2. Calculate the lye and "water" weights for your recipe.
I put "water" in quotes because you're going to use water and glycerin to make up this total.

If your KOH is about 90% purity, use SoapCalc with the 90% purity setting turned ON. 
If your KOH purity is close to 100%, use Soapcalc with the 90% setting left OFF. 
If your KOH purity is about 95%, use SummerBeeMeadow calc.

Set the calc at your choice of 1% to 3% superfat. I use 3%.
Set the calc to 25% lye concentration -- that's a ratio of 3 parts "water" to 1 part lye.

3. Make your lye solution.

First dissolve your KOH in room-temperature distilled water equal to the KOH weight.
Measure glycerin equal to 2 times the KOH weight.
When the KOH is completely dissolved in the water, combine the glycerin with the lye solution and mix. 
You can use this water-glycerin-lye solution right away -- no need to cool it.

4. Make the soap paste per Susie's tutorial: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=465968 see Post 2. 

5. Dilute the soap paste per Susie's tutorial (see Step 4 above) or per IL's tutorial: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46114 see Post 9.

Unless you have better information, start diluting the paste at 0.5 parts water to 1 part paste by weight. Add SMALL amounts of water after that to find the best dilution.
Use only distilled water for diluting the soap paste. No tap water, no aloe, no fragrance, no infusions -- nothing but plain distilled water.

6. After the soap is diluted and any problems are fixed, add fragrance to the diluted soap as you wish. 
I suggest scenting at 0.5% to 1% of the total diluted soap weight (0.5 gram to 1 gram of scent per 100 g of diluted soap). 
I recommend testing each fragrance in a small sample before you scent a larger amount -- some FOs and EOs will change the thickness or texture of the soap.

7. Pour into bottles and use. No cure time is required. 

***

I'm sure you'll get a bunch of other opinions, but hopefully you'll be able to sort some sensible ideas out of the chaos.


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## IrishLass (Jan 28, 2016)

BrewerGeorge said:


> What's the current "state of the art" method for GLS?


 
"State of the art" is actually whichever way works easiest for you. In other words, you can't go wrong with any of them- they all work wonderfully and will give you lovely liquid soap in the end- but it will all come down to what is easier/more comfortable for you and the way you like to work/soap.

For what it's worth, the easiest/less fussy way is to mix your KOH with enough water to dissolve, and then add the full complement of glycerin to it before dumping into your melted oils. 

Cooked vs. Uncooked: uncooked is the easiest/less fussy way to go.

PS20 vs PS80: PS80 is the better of the two when making liquid soap. PS20 is too weak for this task.

I will help you through step by step if need be.

Step one: Do you want to make clear soap or creamy/opaque soap? 

*Edited to add*: DeeAnna beat me to it again! lol


IrishLass


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## BlackDog (Jan 28, 2016)

Wow, DeeAnna.  That is extremely helpful in a very concise way.  I've been looking at LS methods since I want to try it this summer (must research everything for 6 months first, according to my weird brain!) and there is so much to read and look at that it all felt a little overwhelming.  Bookmarking this thread!


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## DeeAnna (Jan 28, 2016)

There are many ways to makie soap and many of the methods work perfectly fine. This diversity is part of the fun ... and the confusing frustration ... of soap making. 

Hopefully my suggestions will encourage beginners to give liquid soap making a try. With a basic first batch under your belt, I hope people will feel braver to branch out.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jan 28, 2016)

DeeAnna said:


> You are asking a bunch of opinionated soapers to tell you to do -- liquid soapers at that???? Brave man!  Here's my opinion!
> 
> ***
> ...



Thank you for cutting through the fog!  These will be my marching orders for tonight.

Thank you too, IrishLass!


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## lenarenee (Jan 28, 2016)

BrewerGeorge said:


> Sorry to do this because I know it's redundant to info that's already in these threads, but there is SO MUCH info that I'm confused.
> 
> What's the current "state of the art" method for GLS? I've read the BIG thread several times, and I've read/watched Irish's recent tutorial. But there's creamy vs clear, hot glycerin vs water dissolve, cooked vs not cooked, PS20 vs PS80, and all kinds of other subtle distinctions that have my head spinning.
> 
> So I've got a quart of glycerin. I've got a few pounds of KOH, and all the typical oils, scents and colors from making bar soap. I even have some stearic acid. And I want to try GLS tonight. Can somebody cut through all the fog and just tell me what to do?


 
Thank you for asking this, and thanks for DeeAnna and Irish Lass for responding  (and anyone else who does) - I was pretty much in the same boat as you.  I'm not a detail person - and all that information from the thread was overwhelming for me.  Have to get polysorbate 80 - but first find our if its save for kids.

I vowed to never make liquid soap as I never liked it. However, our little one  has trouble with bar soap (homemade soap is so slippery)  that she scrapes the bar with her fingernails.  She finally swiped a fresh bar of soap off the shelf, shredded it (she's a pro at shredding soap and cheese!) soaked it in water and put it on the food processor!  Turned out quite nice actually. But I'm taking that as a hint that I'd better learn to make liquid soap.  :idea:


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## BrewerGeorge (Jan 28, 2016)

What recipe size should I use if I want to fit comfortably in a quart Mason jar?


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## IrishLass (Jan 28, 2016)

I use 1-qt jars when I dilute my paste, and I can comfortably fit 16 oz. of the paste, plus all my dilution ingredients.


IrishLass


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## BrewerGeorge (Jan 28, 2016)

Well, that was interesting.  Went from looking like a good gelatinous gravy, to a graininess like a slightly broken custard, back to shiny smooth and thin for about 30 seconds, then *instantly* set to the consistency of taffy when you're about half-way done pulling it.  Sure looks like soap paste.  I covered it and will give it a couple hours before zap testing and hopefully diluting overnight.

What's the dilution ratio for the recipe DeeAnna posted?  When do I add the sodium lactate?


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## DeeAnna (Jan 28, 2016)

I'm assuming you're using IL's recipe? If so, you'll want to see IL's tutorial where she answers those questions: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46114 and look for Post 9.

Your experience sounds pretty close to mine! Fun, ain't it???


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## Misschief (Jan 28, 2016)

I diluted mine at .75:1 and found it a little runnier than I expected. I'd recommend starting at .5:1. You can always add water; you can't take it out.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 28, 2016)

Good point, Misschief. It's always wise to sneak up on the final dilution, especially if you're using a recipe that is new to you. Susie recommends adding dilution water = 1/2 of the paste weight to start with and then working up from there, and I'd say that's a pretty safe plan. Even though I know IL's dilution ratio for her olive-CO-castor recipe, I follow Susie's method of diluting the paste.


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## Susie (Jan 28, 2016)

And keep good notes on dilution amounts.  Then you can just start with that next time.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jan 28, 2016)

We have zapless paste.  Diluting in the stock pot now.   Think I'll just put a little litsea in this one for scent.  (I don't have any PS80 yet, so I'm only diluting 200g.)

This is the paste I can put in a push tube for hand-washing on the go, right?


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## Misschief (Jan 28, 2016)

BrewerGeorge said:


> We have zapless paste.  Diluting in the stock pot now.   Think I'll just put a little litsea in this one for scent.  (I don't have any PS80 yet, so I'm only diluting 200g.)
> 
> This is the paste I can put in a push tube for hand-washing on the go, right?



I'm interested in that idea, too. I happen to have some push tubes I bought for deodorant about 10 years ago. They'd be perfect for hand-washing on the go.

How would you get it into the tubes?


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## DeeAnna (Jan 28, 2016)

Yep, BG, this one will work fine (before dilution) for Susie's idea for Soap2Go. At least that's been my experience. Just mark the tube as Soap or whatever, so's you don't confuse it with your lip balm. Don't ask me why. Ahem......

Misschief -- I just smoosh the paste into the tube with my fingers and the blunt end of a chopstick. Not very scientific or elegant, but it's the easiest way to fill a few tubes for personal use.


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## Susie (Jan 28, 2016)

^Yep, exactly that way.  Did that, too.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jan 29, 2016)

Here's a pic a couple hours after dilution.  Hopefully it will be uniformly clear-ish by tomorrow.  It doesn't look like it's going to clear completely, probably because of the litsea without PS80, but we'll see.

And if it looks extra orange, that's because I used my bargain CO with the beta carotene.

Thanks, All!


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## Misschief (Jan 29, 2016)

Looking good!


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## Susie (Jan 29, 2016)

You can kill that top layer of bubbles with a few sprays of rubbing alcohol.  If you would take a pic in the morning, I would appreciate it.  I am rather concerned about the middle layer on that soap.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jan 29, 2016)

Susie said:


> You can kill that top layer of bubbles with a few sprays of rubbing alcohol.  If you would take a pic in the morning, I would appreciate it.  I am rather concerned about the middle layer on that soap.



I didn't get a pic before leaving for work, but the three layers are still there - although the two top ones are about 1/3 the size of the pic.  The whole thing is cool and the clear soap is much more viscous.  I'm guessing it cooled too much before it all incorporated?  Should I reheat without disturbing it?

ETA:  Also, is it too late to add sodium citrate?  I forgot yesterday.


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## Susie (Jan 29, 2016)

Don't add sodium citrate yet, don't try to re-mix yet, either.  I am afraid that the middle layer is oils (superfats) that separated.  If so, we will have to have you add some additional KOH and water to bring them together.  Or maybe some PS80.  IrishLass will have to step in here and help troubleshoot.  I don't use either product, I'm afraid.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 29, 2016)

I haven't had good results adding citrate to diluted soap -- it turned the LS milky the times I tried it. But give it a go with a small sample of your LS once it's properly diluted and see what happens -- I might have made an error. 

I'd add EDTA to diluted soap, however -- I know that doesn't change the appearance or texture.

Tip -- get the soap paste diluted first with plain distilled water, no fragrance. After you KNOW the soap is diluted properly and no problems, THEN add scent. This has two benefits -- one is there is absolutely no interference from the scent while the soap is being diluted, because EOs and FOs can cause texture and color changes. The other is the fun of adding a variety of fragrances to different portions of the diluted soap, if you like.

Susie -- I'm hoping that middle layer is just chunky bits of paste that have yet to dissolve, but yeah I am a wee bit worried too.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jan 29, 2016)

I didn't mess with it this morning other than to look at it, but I thought the middle layer was undissolved paste from when I chopped it up with the SB.

Is it possible to have foam/lather on top of oil?


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## DeeAnna (Jan 29, 2016)

If you used a SB, then yes the middle layer could be chunky bits of soap paste that have yet to dilute. If it were me in a hurry, I'd add a bit more water and see if that helps, but if you have the time, I'd wait for Susie to contribute her opinion on what to do next.

Yes it's possible to have foam on top of that middle layer from the fatty acids if that's the situation -- fatty acids can form a foam if agitated. Also the SB will froth up the diluted soap underneath to form a sticky, fairly stable soap foam like that.


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## Arimara (Jan 29, 2016)

BrewerGeorge said:


> Here's a pic a couple hours after dilution.  Hopefully it will be uniformly clear-ish by tomorrow.  It doesn't look like it's going to clear completely, probably because of the litsea without PS80, but we'll see.
> 
> And if it looks extra orange, that's because I used my bargain CO with the beta carotene.
> 
> Thanks, All!



This reminds me of that Jello that came out when I was a kid.


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## IrishLass (Jan 29, 2016)

Misschief said:


> I diluted mine at .75:1 and found it a little runnier than I expected. I'd recommend starting at .5:1.


 
Yes- when in doubt, starting with a lower amount of water is best. .75:1 works for me to get a honey-like thickness, but it might not work out the same or be as thick/thin as others might prefer. 



			
				Misschief said:
			
		

> You can always add water; you can't take it out


 
Actually, I found out that hard way one day that you _can_ take it out.  One of my dilutions from a few years ago came out a little thinner than I liked, and so I dumped it all into a pot and heated it on low until I was satisfied with the viscosity. I made sure to weigh everything before and after so that I knew how much water evaporated out. 

BrewerGeorge- I agree with DeeAna- it's best to never add the FO or EO when diluting. Always save the scent for last. I always mix my scent into my finished soap right before I bottle it. 

From where I'm sitting, that middle layer looks like oil, or maybe EO mixed with a blob of undiluted soap paste. If it were me, I would poke at it with a chopstick to see how firm it is. If it is firm, more water is needed to dilute it. 



If that middle layer is soft/liquidy/oily, that means that you have separation on your hands. PS80 will do the trick of solubizing it into the mix. I'd add PS80 @ .5 mL at a time until things hold together, letting the soap sit for a little bit after each addition. Remember to takes notes of everything you add!

I've never added citric acid to mine, so I have no advice there.


IrishLass


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## BrewerGeorge (Jan 29, 2016)

Well, I missed the advice to save the scent for last, apparently.  I'll chalk that up to lessons learned.

I couldn't make it home for lunch as I'd planned so I'll post a new pic this evening, but even this morning the stratification was MUCH less than the pic from last night.  I certainly hope it's not the EO; I only put 4 grams into the final batch of 350 g.

I'm still having a heck of a time finding PS80 at a price I'm willing to pay.   I _just_ got a big box of soaping supplies - like Tuesday just - and I don't need anything else for a while.  Buying the PS80 alone online is problematic because I'm simply psychologically incapable of paying more to ship something than it costs in the first place.


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## IrishLass (Jan 29, 2016)

RE; the PS80: Someone on the forum was recently saying that when they are running low on PS80 and don't want to wait for shipping, they sometimes are able to buy some from their local bakery (food-grade PS80 often used in many food-stuffs), and that it works fine for them (I'll see if I can find the post). If you have a local bakery, it might be worth a try. 

*Edited to add*: found it!. Hahaha, it was Serene responding to a post by you: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=58315


IrishLass


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## BrewerGeorge (Jan 29, 2016)

IrishLass said:


> RE; the PS80: Someone on the forum was recently saying that when they are running low on PS80 and don't want to wait for shipping, they sometimes are able to buy some from their local bakery (food-grade PS80 often used in many food-stuffs), and that it works fine for them (I'll see if I can find the post). If you have a local bakery, it might be worth a try.
> 
> *Edited to add*: found it!. Hahaha, it was Serene responding to a post by you: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=58315
> 
> ...



Hehe, yeah I saw that.  Unfortunately the only "bakery" near me is a Panera seemingly run by high school kids.  Might have to venture into Indianapolis over the weekend and see what I can find.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 29, 2016)

"...I only put 4 grams into the final batch of 350 g...."

If the EO was going to affect the texture, then that amount is definitely enough to do the trick. It doesn't take much. I'm not saying the EO did cause trouble, just saying it could. Here's more info: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=51237


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## BrewerGeorge (Jan 29, 2016)

Here it is now:






It really feels like undissolved soap - like spongy taffy.  I removed some of the lighter stuff without the clear and it does lather the same way as the clear by itself.  Nothing tastes zappy, feels oily or has a slick on top.

What I did last night was take it out of the water bath after the paste had softened and blend it with the SB.  It turned into light yellow froth at that point.  However, I put it on the counter to cool after that instead of going back into the bath, and I'm guessing that it cooled down before it had a chance to fully dissolve.  On that presumption, I've stirred it back up (spoon, not SB) and put it back into a water bath.


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## Susie (Jan 29, 2016)

You are going to need some more water if that is what you are left with now.   See if hitting it with the SB will help before you start adding water, though.  Then, if you still have spongy stuff with or without lumps, add a very small amount of water at the time, think 14-15 g at the time, and wait half an hour minimum before the next addition.  Keep good notes.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 29, 2016)

I updated my Post #2 above to reflect some of the ideas given in these later comments. 

It's still a basic, simple KISS (Keep It Simple, Soaper!) method of making liquid soap. You won't find any of the enhancements and refinements that Susie and IL have shared in their many tutorials and posts on liquid soaping. I'm hoping this pared-down set of instructions will encourage people to try these ladies' no-cook no-misery method of liquid soap making.


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## BrewerGeorge (Jan 29, 2016)

We have Liquid Soap!






I added about 10ml of water, twice over the night and stirred as Susie suggested, but mostly just let it simmer in a shimmering pot of water for a good 4 hours or so.  There is still a bit of a tough skin - like a gravy skin - on top, but I poured under it.  We'll see if that gets absorbed over the weeks until I need to refill the bottle.

It's not quite perfectly clear as you can see, but I'm pretty happy with it as a first try.  If I can figure out that dilution step to be a little less effort- and natural gas- intensive, I may continue doing liquid soaps after all.  

Thanks for all the help IrishLass, DeeAnna, Susie, et al.  I couldn't have done it without you!


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## Susie (Jan 29, 2016)

You don't have to cook it so much.  Just start with the correct amount of water next time.  That should cut your trial and error time out completely.

Congratulations!


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## KristaY (Jan 29, 2016)

Nice work, BG, and congrats! I don't really care if my LS is clear or opaque. Once it's zap-less I'm good so I think it looks terrific.


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## lenarenee (Jan 30, 2016)

The soap looks great - nice gold color too.

How thick or thin is it?


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## IrishLass (Jan 30, 2016)

Looks beautiful! 


IrishLass


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## BrewerGeorge (Jan 30, 2016)

lenarenee said:


> The soap looks great - nice gold color too.
> 
> How thick or thin is it?


About warm honey


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## DeeAnna (Jan 30, 2016)

Well done, sir!


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## DeeAnna (Jan 30, 2016)

Like Susie, I also don't heat the soap paste when I dilute. I just put the paste and liquid into a container, smoosh the paste into somewhat smaller chunks with a spatula or potato masher, cover the container to keep curious noses out of trouble, and walk away. It's nice to start this in the evening. As I pass by and think about it, I smoosh the chunks a bit smaller yet, recover the container, and walk away. The paste usually dissolves in 12-24 hours with little effort, no hovering, and no heat. I've done this with LS paste made only with water and paste made with varying amounts of glycerin with good results.


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## lenarenee (Jan 30, 2016)

BrewerGeorge said:


> About warm honey


 
Thanks!

In an earlier post you said you didn't have ps80, correct?
Was your recipe simply oils and lye - no added stearic or other ingredients?
I'm asking because I always thought handmade ls was as thin as water, which won't work for my purpose (kids). (Your "warm honey" thickness sounds nice). 

I have oo, co, castor, 90% koh, glycerin (and a quart jar)...hope I'm ready to try this tomorrow. Its sounds too good to be true....(spoken in a gleeful tone of disbelief because I had long dismissed the idea of making liquid soap after 3 etsy purchases of water thin soap, and thinking that it needed lots of non oil additives that complicated the whole process!)


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## DeeAnna (Jan 30, 2016)

It's really true, Lenarenee. A recipe high in oleic acid -- like IL's recipe that I shared in Post 2 of this thread -- can be like honey or syrup when diluted with care. It's really easy to add too much water, especially when a person is new to liquid soaping, so plenty of patience and good notes are the key to getting the dilution just right.

A soap that is lower in oleic acid such as Susie's laundry soap (also mentioned in Post 2) will naturally be thinner (not as syrupy), all other things being equal. 

If you want a low oleic soap to be syrupy or if you want a very thick body gel type of consistency, then it's likely you will need to add a separate thickener to the soap. Thickeners can include stearic acid, gums, etc. But that's something I'd leave for another batch of liquid soap, not a person's first.

The keys to a syrupy liquid soap without a separate thickener are high oleic acid and careful dilution.


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## ngian (Jan 31, 2016)

I have read that if we make the paste with a brine water (the part of liquid that dissolves KOH) then when we will dilute the paste the liquid soap will have more easily honey thickness if the recipe has more oleic acid.


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## lenarenee (Jan 31, 2016)

DeeAnna said:


> It's really true, Lenarenee. A recipe high in oleic acid -- like IL's recipe that I shared in Post 2 of this thread -- can be like honey or syrup when diluted with care. It's really easy to add too much water, especially when a person is new to liquid soaping, so plenty of patience and good notes are the key to getting the dilution just right.
> 
> A soap that is lower in oleic acid such as Susie's laundry soap (also mentioned in Post 2) will naturally be thinner (not as syrupy), all other things being equal.
> 
> ...


 

I hope I didn't sound like too much of a doubting Thomas - I didn't mean to infer that people were making things up. 

I have tons of unwanted Costco olive oil and this just might be a happy way to use it up.


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## Susie (Jan 31, 2016)

You did not sound like a doubting Thomas.  You sounded like you needed more information.  Which is why we are all here, right?  To learn and share.  

And DeeAnna is exactly right, the high oleic soaps are just thicker if you dilute very carefully and slowly.   Do try IrishLass' recipe, and follow the list of ingredients carefully.  I do not do the superfat with meadowfoam oil or use the PS80, and I got gloriously thick soap with the rest of the recipe.


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## IrishLass (Jan 31, 2016)

Lenarenee- one of the things I gleaned from my GLS mentors over at the Dish is how easy it is to get a beautifully thick liquid soap with the glycerin method. Take 100% coconut LS made via Failor's method, for example. From what I heard from those who had tried making 100% coconut LS via Failor's method, or even a formula with just 35% CO made the same way, it was virtually unheard of to end up with a thick LS, but when they tried making it via the glycerin method, they were shocked and surprised at how thick they were able to get things.

The 65% olive oil GLS formula that I make is as thick as pourable honey without any thickeners added to it at all, and my cocoa shea GLS formula also comes out beautifully thick like pourable honey- and it's very rich and creamy to boot because of the stearic acid that I add during dilution.

I've made one batch of 100% CO GLS so far and I can attest that you can get it to dilute out nice and thick. Mine is as thick as my Dawn Ultra.

Just start out with a small amount of dilution water to begin with, and keep playing around with your dilution rates until you get the thickness you like.

Just so you know, there is such a thing as adding too little water. If you don't add enough, you'll end up with a blob of undiluted paste floating on top when all is said and done. That happened to me several times when trying to perfect my dilution rate for my creamy cocoa shea formula (it near enough drove me mad!), but I just kept playing with it and playing with it. It wasn't until I was very careful to add only mere drops of water to it at time until I finally hit the jackpot. Adding just a little water at a time is key. I swear, there were a couple of times when I added a mere half mL water (which I thought should have been piddling little enough), but it ended up being too much and made the soap too thin for the likes of me and I had to heat it out (which is a bit fussy, but works well, by the way). So, like Susie said, do be careful to go slow when figuring out your perfect dilution rate.


IrishLass


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## kchaystack (Jan 31, 2016)

Well I jumped in and followed Deeanna's CliffsNotes version.  

I was really worried at first because it took forever to trace.  I finally gave up on it getting more than a light trace and set it aside and worked on some salt bars.  Tonight was just a night of firsts!

After the salt bars were in the individual molds, I went back, and wouldn't you know it - it was taffy.   I stirred it with a plastic spoon, and even got some flying bubbles.

So now it is sitting until tomorrow just to make sure it is done - and I will start dilution


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## Susie (Jan 31, 2016)

Yay!


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## DeeAnna (Jan 31, 2016)

I said: "... A soap that is lower in oleic acid ... will naturally be thinner (not as syrupy), all other things being equal. ..."

IL said "...I've made one batch of 100% CO GLS so far and I can attest that you can get it to dilute out nice and thick...."

I realize I'm making this matter sound more black and white than it really is -- I am glossing over some things in an effort to keep matters simple. 

To be clear, I agree with IL that a low oleic soap can be diluted to a honey-like consistency. The catch is this syrupy "sweet spot" is narrower for a low oleic paste than a high oleic paste. It's easy to dilute a bit too much and when you overshoot the dilution, the diluted soap will have a watery consistency. 

A high oleic soap has a wider sweet spot where it will have a syrupy consistency. This means it is a more forgiving soap to dilute, so it's a good choice for beginners or impatient soapers.


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## lenarenee (Jan 31, 2016)

Susie said:


> You did not sound like a doubting Thomas. You sounded like you needed more information. Which is why we are all here, right? To learn and share.
> 
> And DeeAnna is exactly right, the high oleic soaps are just thicker if you dilute very carefully and slowly. Do try IrishLass' recipe, and follow the list of ingredients carefully. I do not do the superfat with meadowfoam oil or use the PS80, and I got gloriously thick soap with the rest of the recipe.


 
Thanks for letting me know - I'm going to go back to my post and add the appropriate tone of hopeful disbelief.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 31, 2016)

Oh, I also understood exactly what you meant, Lenarenee! Your thoughtful "tone of hopeful disbelief" came through nicely in your first version, so no need to revise.


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## baylee (Jan 31, 2016)

Susie said:


> Do try IrishLass' recipe, and follow the list of ingredients carefully.  I do not do the superfat with meadowfoam oil or use the PS80, and I got gloriously thick soap with the rest of the recipe.



I so appreciate you posting this, Susie.  I want to try Irish Lass' recipe but don't have meadowfoam oil or PS80.  I also don't have cocoa butter but thought about just using shea butter.  Do you think just using shea butter for the 2 butters would work Irish Lass?

I love this forum!


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## kchaystack (Jan 31, 2016)

Here is my paste  and 100g being diluted so I can figure out my ratio.


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## IrishLass (Jan 31, 2016)

DeeAnna said:


> The catch is this syrupy "sweet spot" is narrower for a low oleic paste than a high oleic paste. It's easy to dilute a bit too much and when you overshoot the dilution, the diluted soap will have a watery consistency.
> 
> A high oleic soap has a wider sweet spot where it will have a syrupy consistency. This means it is a more forgiving soap to dilute, so it's a good choice for beginners or impatient soapers.


 
True that.  With my 100% CO GLS and the creamy cocoa shea, all it took was a mere few drops extra to send me muttering under my breath back to the drawing board because I overshot it, but the 65% OO formula had a wider range of acceptability to me, i.e., an extra mL of water wasn't so bad/didn't thin things out too much for my personal likes. 




			
				baylee said:
			
		

> I want to try Irish Lass' recipe but don't have meadowfoam oil or PS80. I also don't have cocoa butter but thought about just using shea butter. Do you think just using shea butter for the 2 butters would work Irish Lass?


 
I've never tried it with all shea for the butter component, but it sounds like an experiment I'd certainly like to try.  You'll have to adjust the KOH amount of course, and chances are that you'll probably also have to change the dilution rate, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. 

Instead of meadowfoam seed oil for the extra superfat after dilution, you can use any other liquid oil, but I'd definitely get some PS80, without a doubt. That's an essential for that particular formula that you'll need in order to keep the finished soap from separating. 


IrishLass


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## kchaystack (Feb 7, 2016)

So i figued I'd show off my first shot at diluting my paste. This is from 100g of paste with about 60g water.   Its not quite clear because i added a few drops of lemongrass eo.  But it lathers well enough.  I've got another 200 grams starting to dilute tomight.


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## Susie (Feb 7, 2016)

Beautiful!  Well done!


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## shunt2011 (Feb 7, 2016)

Very nice!


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## nsmar4211 (Feb 15, 2016)

Can't wait for my supplies to get here so I can try this one out...... my first one is too drying for my hands. This and the creamy one are next on the list! Encouraged by all the successes here


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## Soapsavvy (Feb 15, 2016)

Hon, I just posted a very similar statement here. I swear the more I read and research the more confused I'm becoming, so don't feel bad. Guess it's all part of our learning curves!


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