# Handmade Soap and Health Claims



## JillGat (Mar 2, 2021)

As soapmakers, we are sometimes asked by customers to recommend soaps that are beneficial for certain skin conditions.  We, of course, aren't supposed to promise medical benefits from our soap, else we would have to categorize them as a drug.  However, because of these requests, we may sometimes have the opportunity to encourage folks to get important medical evaluation that they might otherwise not pursue.

Here is my personal experience. More than a year ago, I developed a rash on my ring finger.  I asked around about it and was told this was common; either an allergic reaction to my wedding ring or dermatitis caused by bacteria building up under the ring.  So I stopped wearing my wedding ring.  The rash didn't go away. 

While at a general health check up, I pointed it out to the doctor and she gave me a prescription for acyclovir cream (not cheap!).  I thought that odd, because acyclovir is a treatment for herpetic lesions, and herpes tends to be episodic; not chronic like my rash was.  It didn't work.  I went back and she wrote me a prescription for a strong cortisone cream she said "would knock it out."  It didn't.  Was at an appointment with another medical provider and showed it to him and he suggested I try an over the counter anti-fungal, like for athlete's foot.  I did, and the rash persisted.  Couple of months later, I was at the doctor's office for another reason and asked her whether I should see a dermatologist about this rash.  She said no, it's a common contact dermatitis and I should just be sure to keep it moisturized.  She said it would take too long to get in to see a dermatologist, it would cost a lot, and they would most likely tell me the same thing.

A few months later, I decided to make an appointment to see the dermatologist anyway.  He did a biopsy of my rash.  I was called today by the dermatologist, saying that the biopsy found squamous cell carcinoma.  I've had it for at least 18 months, without diagnosis or treatment.  I was given an appointment for next week for electro-desiccation and I may need to use a topical chemotherapy cream.  (Do not look up pictures of electro-desiccation... I'm just sayin'.)

My point here is NOT that soapmakers should be attempting to do any kind of diagnosis or treatment for skin cancer.  My point is that we all run into people who shy away from "Western Medicine" and are looking for natural remedies for health conditions.  They may think natural soaps - with essential oils, etc. - are the answer.  For some minor skin problems, this might be true.  Generally speaking, our homemade soaps contain much gentler ingredients than commercial soaps.  But sometimes these folks will come to us IN LIEU OF seeing a licensed medical provider, for symptoms that may be caused by more serious underlying conditions.

I think it is important to urge those with skin conditions that are not resolving to see a medical provider to rule out more serious conditions.  If they are not getting results, they should SEE A DERMATOLOGIST.   Many general doctors are not experienced or educated about skin conditions, that can be caused by everything from lymphoma to syphilis.  I wish I hadn't delayed seeing a specialist for my rash and I hope it hasn't progressed because of this delay.

Thanks for reading.
1515
4 Comments


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## dibbles (Mar 2, 2021)

I’m glad you decided to be proactive and will be getting the treatment you need. Good luck with your procedure, and thanks for sharing some valuable advice.


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## cmzaha (Mar 2, 2021)

I totally agree with you and many times in the forum I mention to people they should see a Dermatologist. Modern medicine is NOT BAD. JillGat I am so glad you persisted and found the right Dermatologist and I hope it goes well for you. We just have to be persistent today. 

 I have severe eczema but when I was under severe stress with legal family issues my legs broke out with lesions that I had never experienced before and would not heal. For over two years under the care of a dermatologist, they are finally 90% healed. But not all Dermatologists all equal I had one tell me it was flea bites and I told her it was not, and she ignored me. I never went back to her. The one I stayed with did biopsy some of the lesions which fortunately turned up negative. It was a form of my eczema caused by stress. She gave me some liquid gold Steroid lotion samples which started the healing process then followed up with a Steroid Tape. Both of the prescriptions are amazing. When I say the Lotion is liquid gold I mean liquid gold, she told me it is somewhere around $1700 for a small tube and she saved the samples she was given for me. So yes, sometimes we need medical doctors and modern medicine.


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## rdc1978 (Mar 2, 2021)

JillGat said:


> As soapmakers, we are sometimes asked by customers to recommend soaps that are beneficial for certain skin conditions.  We, of course, aren't supposed to promise medical benefits from our soap, else we would have to categorize them as a drug.  However, because of these requests, we may sometimes have the opportunity to encourage folks to get important medical evaluation that they might otherwise not pursue.
> 
> Here is my personal experience. More than a year ago, I developed a rash on my ring finger.  I asked around about it and was told this was common; either an allergic reaction to my wedding ring or dermatitis caused by bacteria building up under the ring.  So I stopped wearing my wedding ring.  The rash didn't go away.
> 
> ...



Its a little frustrating that your primary care doctor was such a gatekeeper for the dermatologist.  I totally understand trying to keep costs down, but like second or third time I think they should have relented.  

My mother had a cough for like a year and no one would refer her to a specialist.  Like NO ONE.  I was so frustrated for her because you can just imagine having a persistent cough in the middle of a worldwide pandemic. Thankfully she was able to resolve it, but I felt so bad for her.  She was so self conscious about it.


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## Peachy Clean Soap (Mar 2, 2021)

JillGat so sorry you had such a hard time w/ many Dr.'s how frustrating to say the least' Im glad you finally got a DX & was treated. I hope you have perfect health moving forward.


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## Relle (Mar 3, 2021)

My recent experience was I got a referral from the GP for a lesion near my elbow that needed to be looked at by my a dermatologist. They said it would be 6 months for a consult - after a few questions - Is it bleeding, have you been here before etc. I got the appt for two weeks after that. I had 6 biopsy's over my body, 3 came back as malignant BCC's and the elbow one was treated with the cream for 6 wks. While removing the one on my head, she said there was something close to the one she was removing that needed a biopsy (this was not picked up on the original consult).
I received a phone call that all was well with the ones removed but need to come back as the biopsy was another BCC. Now I have to go back on 7th April to get that done. I've had to wait 8 wks as I had trouble with my head, I woke up two days after the surgery and thought my dressing had dropped over my eyes, but my eye and face was swollen. I was put on antibiotics and stronger pain killers for the throbbing of the head. My incision is still not healed. I was told I might get a black eye from the BCC near my left eye, but that was OK.
So, even the specialists find things they are not sure of.


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## Catscankim (Mar 3, 2021)

@JillGat is this your own experience? If so, I am terribly sorry. 

I don't think that recognizing that someone has a medical issue and pointing out that they need to see a physician for it has anything to do with making a claim about your homemade soap. Going from the title of this thread here.

My friend's mom (in her 90s) owns an antique shop. This antique shop sells my soap. One day I told my friend "your mom smells like really strong pee"...this is a very active 90 year old lady. She owns a store, plays saxophone, plays pool, and drinks beer lol. SUPER cute. I was concerned so I brought it to my friends attention. Turns out that she had a problem with a pessary that she was seeing a dr for. Not soapy advice.

Now if I told her that her mom smells like pee, and I could give her a soap to make her NOT smell like pee because I can fix the UTI that she had, then I would be making a claim about my soap, so that is why I am a little confused about the title of this thread. Did you post this elsewhere as well, because I see 4 replies marked on it.

Again, I am sorry for this experience. I hope all is well. Not all western medicine is bad, there are just some people who practice it badly. I think of myself as someone who believes in a little bit of both mindsets of medicine.


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## JillGat (Mar 3, 2021)

Catscankim said:


> @JillGat is this your own experience? If so, I am terribly sorry.
> 
> I don't think that recognizing that someone has a medical issue and pointing out that they need to see a physician for it has anything to do with making a claim about your homemade soap. Going from the title of this thread here.
> 
> ...



Soap is not curative.  If one has sensitive skin, some soaps are less irritating than others.  It's the reason I started making soap.  My concern is that, believing soap (and/or other products JUST because they are "natural") will effectively treat or cure health problems may cause some people to delay diagnosis and treatment of potentially serious conditions.

And yes, I posted a version of this on my FB page, then copied and edited it here.  I think the "4 comments" must have been part of what I copied.  Sorry about that! Removed.


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## KimW (Mar 3, 2021)

JillGat I am so sorry this happened to you and I'm glad you were able to get a proper diagnosis.  I do pray and hope all will go well with treatments and that you will soon enough be healthy once more!

When we moved a few years ago, the one thing that made me the most anxious besides leaving our church family was leaving our GP.  He is a well read Dr. with his own office and his own practice.  When my insurance changed and he was no longer in our coverage, I paid out of my pocket to see him rather than going to a covered clinic.  He told me his concern with modern medicine is that doctors no longer have the time or permission to talk with a patient and touch a patient and think about a patient.  Since I played sports (into an age when I shouldn't have been!  lol) and was always getting myself knocked about, he had to refer me to more than one specialist.  Since he kept himself so well versed on his skill, his diagnosis and his consultation of how it might be treated was correct every time - and he always referred me to like doctors who did not have their time and methods managed by a clinic.

Don't get me wrong - all Dr.s are not equal and there are some fantastic clinics out there.  But, in my experience, if you have something going on that's either out of the norm or not "fantastical", the clinic/HMO/hospital most usually falls short when it come to diagnosis.  If you're young and healthy, the managed clinics can be a real blessing when you have something non-life threatening or minor.  But otherwise, if you're a healthy looking 19 year-old, you're seen by 5 different doctors who insist you must have appendicitis and they don't relent until you full drop your pants in front of them and all of the ER to show them your scar - and only then do they call a senior doctor who actually touches you and figures out you probably have a severe UTI and possibly bladder or kidney infection and you should be admitted, watched for shock and put on an IV until they get the test results back.  Yeaaahhhhh.  Sorry for the rant...no offense to anyone!!


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## Richard Perrine (Mar 3, 2021)

I believe that making safer, more wholesome soap has nothing to do with the experience the OP had. There are chemicals in commercial soaps that I used in the laboratory that clearly have safety alerts attached to them. Making more natural soaps is simply smarter. As I read the OP's post, I made the only observation I could....why in the world was he prescribed drugs for viral conditions by a doctor who had made no attempt to determine what it was in the first place and why did it take multiple visits to finally determine that it was cancer? If anyone makes false or unsubstantiated claims to the treatment or prevention of disease regarding their soap, it should always be seen with suspicion. If the last year-plus has readily revealed, anyone can make claims and there will be a lot of people who will believe them whether true or no.


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## Arimara (Mar 3, 2021)

Richard Perrine said:


> I believe that making safer, more wholesome soap has nothing to do with the experience the OP had. There are chemicals in commercial soaps that I used in the laboratory that clearly have safety alerts attached to them. *Making more natural soaps is simply smarter. *As I read the OP's post, I made the only observation I could....why in the world was he prescribed drugs for viral conditions by a doctor who had made no attempt to determine what it was in the first place and why did it take multiple visits to finally determine that it was cancer? If anyone makes false or unsubstantiated claims to the treatment or prevention of disease regarding their soap, it should always be seen with suspicion. If the last year-plus has readily revealed, anyone can make claims and there will be a lot of people who will believe them whether true or no.


At the bold, except when it makes the skin of the intended party worse. My daughter uses a specific brand of soap made for sensitive skin because it works best for her. Her skin is too sensitive for soaps without gentler surfactants in them.

@JillGat I'm glad your dermatologist caught that. I don't always shy away from western medicine but I do not like or trust MOST general doctors that I have come across. With me being aphasic, I have the added bonus of having doctors who have never dealt with patients trying to talk who have never NOT been able to talk before (not fun and patience is a valuable virtue people need). Sometimes, it's better to IGNORE what some doctors say, especially for concerns like your skin or if you have persistant joint pain or something like that, and seek the advice from a practitioner who specializes in dealing with issues of the body (like in your case with the dermatologist).


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## Richard Perrine (Mar 3, 2021)

Absolutely agree! Natural products are also made up of chemicals (natural) and people have allergies to those as well.


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## rdc1978 (Mar 4, 2021)

Richard Perrine said:


> I believe that making safer, more wholesome soap has nothing to do with the experience the OP had. There are chemicals in commercial soaps that I used in the laboratory that clearly have safety alerts attached to them. Making more natural soaps is simply smarter. As I read the OP's post, I made the only observation I could....why in the world was he prescribed drugsy for for viral conditions by a doctor who had made no attempt to determine what it was in the first place and why did it take multiple visits to finally determine that it was cancer? If anyone makes false or unsubstantiated claims to the treatment or prevention of disease regarding their soap, it should always be seen with suspicion. If the last year-plus has readily revealed, anyone can make claims and there will be a lot of people who will believe them whether true or no.



I'd be so scared making any claim about any of my soap.  I probably go the other way and over-explain things.  I only promise that my soap will smell good and while its not the best soap, its the best soap I could make.  

In modern medicine I think GPs and now more than ever NP and PAs are supposed to operate as gatekeepers, especially for some HMOs.  So they will go through everything it could possibly be and see how you respond to therapy.  Once all common offenders are ruled out because it doesn't make anything better THEN they will send you to the specialist.  And some doctors, certainly not all, but some have their own little ego and pride.  Healthcare in our country is a business and using gatekeepers can be a costsaving measure.  

Its funny, my insurance does not require a referral to see a specialist, but nearly everytime I want to see a specialist we go through the same song and dance about getting one because they have all been screwed over by another insurance company.


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## JillGat (Mar 4, 2021)

Richard Perrine said:


> I believe that making safer, more wholesome soap has nothing to do with the experience the OP had. There are chemicals in commercial soaps that I used in the laboratory that clearly have safety alerts attached to them. Making more natural soaps is simply smarter. As I read the OP's post, I made the only observation I could....why in the world was he prescribed drugs for viral conditions by a doctor who had made no attempt to determine what it was in the first place and why did it take multiple visits to finally determine that it was cancer? If anyone makes false or unsubstantiated claims to the treatment or prevention of disease regarding their soap, it should always be seen with suspicion. If the last year-plus has readily revealed, anyone can make claims and there will be a lot of people who will believe them whether true or no.



Thanks, Richard.  Also the earlier person who posted this [[I don't think that recognizing that someone has a medical issue and pointing out that they need to see a physician for it has anything to do with making a claim about your homemade soap. Going from the title of this thread here.]]

I see how the title of my post was confusing now.  My main point was that, as soap makers, some of whom sell at farmers' markets, etc., we are sometimes approached by people who are asking for soap that might help them with a health condition.  Instead of promising any kind of cure via soap (which I know most people here already never do), sometimes this is a great opportunity to recommend that they get medical follow up.

And yeah, I agree that it's kind of outrageous that it took so long for me to get a diagnosis or even a recommendation that I see a dermatologist.  I had to do that on my own.


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## earlene (Mar 4, 2021)

*@JillGat* , I am so glad to hear that you have had this diagnosed and treated! Of course, it is sad that it had to take so long to identify.



Catscankim said:


> I don't think that recognizing that someone has a medical issue and pointing out that they need to see a physician for it has anything to do with making a claim about your homemade soap. Going from the title of this thread here.


*
Kim*,  in *JillGat*'s post I see more than a couple of things that address the thread title topic, which I think is entirely appropriate given that there are numerous soapmakers who DO make claims and do NOT suggest people see a specialist.



JillGat said:


> As soapmakers, we are sometimes asked by customers to recommend soaps that are beneficial for certain skin conditions.  <snip>... because of these requests, we may sometimes have the opportunity to encourage folks to get important medical evaluation that they might otherwise not pursue.
> <snip>


 Middle portion condensed for brevity & to include what I read as implied within her text:

Her skin condition looked benign to others (including some medical professionals) and what should not happen is that when a client says to a soapmaker/soap seller "I have (_name that skin condition_). What soap would you recommend?" some soapmakers DO say, try this soap or try that soap (pine tar soap, for example), INSTEAD of saying something like, "You really should see a skin specialist (dermatologist or other, depending on your country)" 

She continues to say



JillGat said:


> My point is that we all run into people who shy away from "Western Medicine" and are looking for natural remedies for health conditions.  They may think natural soaps - with essential oils, etc. - are the answer.  For some minor skin problems, this might be true.  Generally speaking, our homemade soaps contain much gentler ingredients than commercial soaps.  But sometimes these folks will come to us IN LIEU OF seeing a licensed medical provider, for symptoms that may be caused by more serious underlying conditions.
> 
> I think it is important to urge those with skin conditions that are not resolving to see a medical provider to rule out more serious conditions.  If they are not getting results, they should SEE A DERMATOLOGIST.



So, IMO, *JillGat*'s post really is about how important it is to encourage customers to seek medical advice for skin conditions instead offering what they are seeking, which is an easy fix. Sometimes people ask the wrong questions, but that doesn't mean we should give them the wrong answers. And if we give a soap that they asked for to treat their skin condition, we really ARE making a claim, even if we don't say it verbally; it is implied by our action.


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## JillGat (Mar 4, 2021)

I was going to post a link to it, but I wont.  There is a soap maker on Etsy who claims that her products have ingredients that "have proven to" work better than chemotherapy and other modern treatments for lung cancer.


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## rdc1978 (Mar 4, 2021)

JillGat said:


> I was going to post a link to it, but I wont.  There is a soap maker on Etsy who claims that her products have ingredients that "have proven to" work better than chemotherapy and other modern treatments for lung cancer.


I sincerely hope someone reported her.


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## Arimara (Mar 4, 2021)

JillGat said:


> I was going to post a link to it, but I wont.  There is a soap maker on Etsy who claims that her products have ingredients that "have proven to" work better than chemotherapy and other modern treatments for lung cancer.


Please report her. I wonder if she knows what it's like to see someone die of cancer because that's the experience she's encouraging for foolish customers.


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## GemstonePony (Mar 4, 2021)

JillGat said:


> I was going to post a link to it, but I wont.  There is a soap maker on Etsy who claims that her products have ingredients that "have proven to" work better than chemotherapy and other modern treatments for lung cancer.


I totally agree with not giving disinformation a platform. 
Also, I have a sister who is a nurse, a sister who is a chiropractor and does alternative therapy, and a sister-in-law pharmacist, and this type of stuff drives me bonkers. Natural/traditional medical malpractice gives natural medicine a bad name, just as much as western medical malpractice gives western medicine a bad name.


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## amd (Mar 4, 2021)

JillGat said:


> Generally speaking, our homemade soaps contain much gentler ingredients than commercial soaps. But sometimes these folks will come to us IN LIEU OF seeing a licensed medical provider, for symptoms that may be caused by more serious underlying conditions.


I agree. I had a customer (friend) who was buying sugar scrubs like crazy. I finally asked her if she was gifting them or if there were a lot of people in her house using them. She said no, she uses it every day because her skin is so dry she needed to exfoliate every day. Now I know a lot of makers out there who would just take her money and carry on, but I am not that maker. I told her that no one needs to exfoliate every day and if her skin is that dry, she really needed to see a doctor or dermatologist because it may be an underlying skin condition. She finally did make the appointment and discovered the dry skin was likely a symptom of the diabetes she discovered she had. She told me that she probably would not have ever gotten checked out until something major happened if I hadn't pushed her to do it (and I was horrible, I texted her daily until she finally made the appointment! LOL good thing she is a friend of many years). She's still a customer, just not as frequent as she once was. And because of her, I do very clearly tell people that I have recommended usage for a reason, and if they have concerns they should see a doctor.


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## Jill B Blasius (Mar 10, 2021)

I'm glad to hear you found a Dr. who took your concerns seriously. I have had a lot of family and friends go to western medicine Dr.'s who "blow them off" that their concern is minor or all in their head and eventually die from a serious condition, mainly cancerous. And by the time they actually found someone to listen to them, it was too late. If anyone reading this isn't getting an answer to your liking from your current doctor - even if it is someone you've been going to for years and you have a great deal of trust for them - I urge you to seek out someone else for a second, even third opinion.

My Mom, she had peritonitis caused from taking lots of Motrin for rheumatoid arthritis pain, had severe stomach issues, vomiting and pain and her Dr.'s suggestion was to "just take some Maalox for your stomach pain". She finally checked herself into hospital and died 10 days later from it. It was gruesome. 

My brother, who was having throat trouble singing in choir and later, swallowing food, had complained for a couple of years, was told to "gargle with salt water" and "chew your food better", ended up having esophageal cancer but wasn't diagnosed until it was stage 4 and in his liver and brain. 

My father, complained of weakness and loss of energy. At 72 yrs old they dismissed it as "old age" but he was very active - a regular Jack LaLanne - swam every morning, golfed 9 holes twice a day - no cart - always walking, rode a bicycle *everywhere*, busy with church and charity groups. They told him he just needed to "slow down and take it easy - you're old!" After two years of hearing that answer he didn't like, he finally saw a different Dr.  A simple finger prick blood test showed he had no white blood cells, he had myeloid leukemia, and had had it for a few years. He died 3 months after his diagnosis. 

And my best friend of over 50 years. Sometime ago (about 15 years), her fingers swelled up, especially at the tips of her fingers. She was one of those ppl who religiously did an annual health exams, always pointed out her weird fingers to the Dr., who replied with "it's from biting your nails, stop biting your nails". For some reason after seeing the same Dr. for _years_ she switched Dr.'s. When she mentioned her fingers, the woman grabbed her hands, asked "how long have they been this way?" and immediately sent her for a CAT scan during her appointment, then after getting the results, a PET scan. She had stage 4 lung cancer, also now in her brain, liver and lymph nodes. She died 6 months after diagnosis.

I have about 6 more examples of friends who have passed that have been completely ignored by so-called "health professionals", but those three are the closest to me.

I have little regard for western medicine and use the holistic/homeopathic approach. I recently went for an "annual physical" at 60 yrs old with a western medicine Dr. - first one in 18 yrs! Last one was when I was 42 and pregnant with _my first child._ At that time I was told I had the health of a 20 year old! I guess I was getting scared of my family medical history and concerns over my longevity. I had every test know to man and then some, which insurance only paid for my mammogram and pap smear, I had to pay for all the rest. When all my results came back, the Dr. calls me and asks me to come back in to her office. OMG, I thought, it's bad news! I go in and the doctor says "Looking at you on paper, I'd swear you were only 30 years old! You're the picture of excellent health." So why did she call me in _for that_?! So she could charge me for another $150 for an office visit. Ah, good old western medicine!

I guess I won't be scheduling another "annual" exam until I'm 90....


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## rdc1978 (Mar 10, 2021)

Jill B Blasius said:


> I'm glad to hear you found a Dr. who took your concerns seriously. I have had a lot of family and friends go to western medicine Dr.'s who "blow them off" that their concern is minor or all in their head and eventually die from a serious condition, mainly cancerous. And by the time they actually found someone to listen to them, it was too late. If anyone reading this isn't getting an answer to your liking from your current doctor - even if it is someone you've been going to for years and you have a great deal of trust for them - I urge you to seek out someone else for a second, even third opinion.
> 
> My Mom, she had peritonitis caused from taking lots of Motrin for rheumatoid arthritis pain, had severe stomach issues, vomiting and pain and her Dr.'s suggestion was to "just take some Maalox for your stomach pain". She finally checked herself into hospital and died 10 days later from it. It was gruesome.
> 
> ...



I am so sorry about all this.  I totally understand your reluctance to trust western medicine.  If I were you I'd be wary too. 

I feel there are a variety of factors at play, but how could that ever change your outlook and why should it?  You've found what works for you.  

I think both approaches have their pros and cons, but if I were you, I'd probably just go another direction.


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## JillGat (Mar 11, 2021)

I'm the one with the SCC on my finger who started this thread.  Wanted to clarify a few things.  I trust science.  Having worked as an infectious disease epidemiologist and clinical researcher for many years, I have a respect for what is known, how it has come to be known, and how to prioritize options for diagnosis and care.  For this reason, although I know that some herbal remedies and meditation practices can improve some health conditions, I am frustrated and saddened when I see and hear people trusting a worker at Whole Foods to recommend an herbal remedy but don't trust Western Medicine.  You'll hear people say that Western Medicine is just out to get your money.  ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE PEOPLE ARE TOO, AND IT'S EVEN EASIER FOR THEM.  It's easier, because so many people have been treated inappropriately, have not been listened to, etc. by "Western Medicine" practitioners.  Some practitioners of alternative medicine have their hearts in the right place and some are just taking advantage of people who are desperate and making a lot of money doing it.

Let me just add here that in my opinion (and I can back it up with a lot of data if you're interested), homeopathy is complete and total hogwash. I really can't imagine anyone believing that homeopathy could in any way effectively treat peritonitis, esophageal cancer, myeloid leukemia or Stage 4 lung cancer. 

This being said, I DO know that, as in my experience, many doctors are like most other people: they tend toward either bending reality to match what they want to believe or what they *usually* see.  They trust Occam's Razor.  As an epidemiologist - a disease detective, basically - I was taught NOT to do that.

As a patient, it's really important to find medical providers who listen to you, who are curious and are critical thinkers.  We have to advocate for ourselves and watch out for bias, always.  It's a drag to shop around, but sometimes you need to push for a referral for a specialist or at least find a primary provider who is open minded and listens.


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## rdc1978 (Mar 11, 2021)

There is a very interesting clinic i visited at UCLA (part of a class on health care law) and they actually work on blending eastern and western medicines so both are considered when treating a patient.  I think the people who started the program realized that there are pros and cons of both types of medicine.  And where one was deficient the other could help.  

Allopathic, or western medicine was better suited for a lot of acute problems but didn't offer a lot of therapies for just being healthy.  It was more of a ",here is a problem. Let's fix a problem" approach and eastern medicines were better for just staying healthy.


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## SPowers (Mar 11, 2021)

I noticed a round (rough) patch on my back several years ago.  Slight variation in the colour from my skin - it was roundish and about the size of a penny.  After a number of years I finally thought to mention it to my doc or perhaps they noticed it (can't remember).  Nothing had changed with it during the passing years but turns out it was the same thing - Squamish Carcinoma.  I had it surgically removed as an out patient - I imagine it would be more difficult to deal with on a finger... good luck.


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## Jubilee8269 (Mar 28, 2021)

I'm kind of glad, and at the same time sad to know I'm not the only one going through all this sort of mess.  I'm making my own soaps now cause there;'s something in the chemicals of a lot of store bought brands that make me itch.  Like feeling like I have bugs all over me kind of itching. So I can't use them. 

I also have a skin disease along with a whole host of other problems.  For years I had doctors telling me I had herpes, even though the tests kept coming up negative for that. My own family kept telling me I was exaggerating everything, didn't need a doctor, or meds, and was just being lazy and trying to get out of working. Even though I'm on SSI for disability.  My current PCP keeps insisting the skin disease I have doesn't work the way it does and it can't possibly be in the places it is, while the dermatologists keep saying he's full of it and have put me on immunosuppressants to control it. I've also been telling people for years there's something wrong with my heart, and I'm showing signs of a certain disease.  They finally did a heart monitor test to 'shut me up' and it showed them there was something wrong.  Now I have to go to a clinic and get more tests done and be put on heart meds.  When I've been telling doctors I needed that since I was in middle school and no one would listen to me. Cause I had to be making it up. 

Sometimes Doctors can be great, and other times they can be jerks.  So I can see why some people look for natural cures when they can't get the help they need from the providers they're seeing. I tried the essential oils, the certain ways of bathing.  Eating certain fruits and veggies and cutting things out for my stomach disorders and my skin and my heart.  None of it helped though.  Sometimes it might for certain people.


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