# Castile soap murky



## Deborah Long (Jun 6, 2020)

This is my first liquid soap.  Everything went well until I added my preservative and then it went from a lovely translucent soap to this!

I used Liquid Germall Plus at 3% and whisked it in.  Did I use too much?  If not, what caused my soap to turn this way?

Don't get me wrong, it's lovely and smells good, but it turned so quickly!  this is about 6 hours after adding the preservative.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 6, 2020)

If the soap was warm when you whisked the LGP in, just the cooling down could cause the clouding or any other number of things. I don't use preservative, but just looking at those bottles suggests to me that the soap will clear after a full 2-week sequester.  So, patience my dear.


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## Deborah Long (Jun 6, 2020)

@Zany_in_CO - Thanks for responding.  That's encouraging to know!  The soap was room temp when I added the LGP.  It's rather fussy about temp, I know.

I'll wait to see what happens and thanks again!


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## DeeAnna (Jun 6, 2020)

The recommended dosage for Liquid Germall Plus is 0.5%. Is there a reason why you're using 3%? That's quite a lot.

I haven't encountered this kind of problem when I've added LGP to liquid soap at the recommended dosage of 0.5%. LGP is temperature sensitive, so don't add it if the product is over 120F.

see Preservative Reviews


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## Deborah Long (Jun 6, 2020)

@DeeAnna - I swear I read in 2 different places that it was used at 1-5%!  Crap!  Is this soap even skin safe, if I'm that far over?  I added when it was cool, room temp, actually

ETA - the recipe I was using did not even call for a preservative!  Should I not have used one at all??


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## Deborah Long (Jun 6, 2020)

OMG!  I read it horribly wrong!  0.1 - .05%

Now I just think I should pitch it...
*sigh*


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## Dumfrey (Jun 7, 2020)

Dont pitch it!  Make a few more batches and mix these into get to roughly .5 %.  May take a while, but no waste.  It's good soap, just needs to be diluted with more soap


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## DeeAnna (Jun 7, 2020)

The preservative versus no preservative war isn't ever going to be won by either side. Zany doesn't use it at all, as she has mentioned here.

I don't use preservative in the paste. I do use preservative in the diluted soap. I can trot out all the reasons why I use it, but I'm not. Suffice to say I use it.

I have no idea what the downsides are of using LGP at 3%. I would be uncomfortable with it. It's a formaldehyde releaser which squicks some people out, although fruits such as apples release formaldehyde in comparable amounts to LGP when used at recommended rates. We eat apples, rather than wash our hands with apples, but somehow LGP is evil and apples aren't. But LGP at 3% ... that's a lot. I can't advise.

Dumfrey suggests mixing this soap with plain soap to dilute the LGP. That's a theoretically sound plan, but you'll have to make more than "a few batches" to dilute the LGP to 0.5%.

You'll end up with a volume of diluted soap that's six times larger than you currently have. That's a _lot _of liquid soap. You'll have to decide if you can get that much soap used up in a reasonable amount of time. Are you only using it for handwashing in your household? Can you give it away? Are there other uses for this soap?

I normally make one batch of paste with 300 g of fats and the diluted soap from that one batch lasts me better part of a year if used mostly for regular househould hand washing. (I also use it for my hobby of wet felting and it gets used up faster when I felt a lot). But a six-times larger batch of LS would last me for years even with my felting ... to the point where the soap would probably go rancid first.



Deborah Long said:


> I read it horribly wrong!  0.1 - *.05*%



In the interests of ensuring other people aren't misinformed, the numbers are 0.1 - *0.5*%. That's 1 to 5 grams of Liquid Germall Plus per 1000 grams of finished product. 

I recommend the upper amount of 0.5% for hobby/home crafters who aren't able to do formal challenge testing.


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## Deborah Long (Jun 7, 2020)

@DeeAnna - I obviously was not comfortable not using a preservative.  I've read both sides but would rather err on the side of caution.  Having said that, @Dumfrey , I just don't have the storage for THAT much liquid soap!  lol  I understand what you're saying, however, to do that much more liquid soap and store it would be beyond me and my husband's (and neighbors and friends...) capability of using that much soap in a reasonable time!  But thank you for your encouragement and support!  I appreciate it!

DeeAnna - thanks so much!  I had posted this (almost exact) same thing in a few Facebook groups and gotten a variety of results!  I'm so glad you chimed in and pointed out the ERROR of my ways!  Yay, science!

I LOVE making mistakes!  I learn soooooooo much!  (although I am mourning the loss of the F/O that smells sooooooo good!  Used the last of what I had in it and am not going to order more FO until I get rid of more!)  lol


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## DeeAnna (Jun 7, 2020)

I've made whoppers of mistakes too and lived to tell the tale, but I'm sad you had this trouble. A learning experience for sure!

Could it be possible the FO is causing the clouding? Not sayin' it's not the LGP, but I do know cloudiness sometimes takes a while to form. If you've used the FO in liquid soap before, and had good results, that would tend to rule out the FO. But if not, it's hard to say what the real culprit is. 

So ... what's this wonderful smelling FO? Curious mind, with a cabinet full of FOs, and all that....


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## Deborah Long (Jun 7, 2020)

The FO is Crafter's Choice Mango Sorbet that I ordered at a friend's request.  Sounded to 'sweet' for my nose, but I've ended up absolutely loving it.  It behaved so well in CP soap, too!

The only reason I don't believe it was the FO is that I added it first and the LS was still just beautiful.  It was only after adding the preservative that it immediately clouded up!  I've dumped that batch and started again.  That was my first batch - and also the first batch of soap EVER that I've had to dump, so I'm not feeling too bad about it - just the loss of the FO...


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## DeeAnna (Jun 7, 2020)

Mmmm. Mango. Yeah, that does sound yummy! I'll put that one on my list to check out.


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## Deborah Long (Jun 7, 2020)

I ended up loving it!  Next time I place an order, it'll be on there!  lol


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 7, 2020)

Deborah Long said:


> I've dumped that batch and started again!


Oh dear... I wanted to see if the batch would clear.   

Speaking of mistakes, I made a batch of "Hog Wash" Hair & Body Shampoo that never cleared... even after 6 months... and it was also somewhat irritating. Tried a few remedies without success. On the positive side, the foamer turned out to be an excellent carpet stain remover! On a whim, I shot some foam on a stubborn stain under a plant pot. Let it sit for 5 minutes, scrubbed, daubed with a towel. Voila! Clean as new with very little effort. So, I was going to suggest that you try cleaning your carpets with it! 

To create Foamer soap, I use *1 oz soap to 3 oz water* which would dilute the soap (and LGP) X 3. That lovely FO would leave a room smelling nice... at least for a while.

I'm just saying, PATIENCE is the key to figuring out what to do with a failed batch. You never know who's going to come up with a solution. This is the closest I've ever come to throwing a batch out. It doesn't hurt to wait and see. I never know what's going to rise to the surface... and I love surprises. Hate wasting stuff though.

*@DeeAnna:* Thank you for a very informative and interesting discussion.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 7, 2020)

Deborah Long said:


> I obviously was not comfortable not using a preservative.  I've read both sides but would rather err on the side of caution.


This is the reason most people use to rationalize using a preservative. There are downsides, especially for those who aren't used to using them and don't understand how specific they are to various bath & body products. That's where "caution" needs to be applied. Case in point, this thread. 

I agree with DeeAnna. No one is ever going to win the debate about using preservatives in LS. I'm fine with each to his own preference.


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## Deborah Long (Jun 7, 2020)

Zany_in_CO said:


> the foamer turned out to be an excellent carpet stain remover!



Ahhh - I never ever thought about doing that!  Zany - you're sooo smart!  (and I'm too impatient, I know....)


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## Malleebird (Jun 7, 2020)

This discussion has been SO interesting....for she who's yet to make her first batch of LS                  Thank you....


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## Deborah Long (Jun 7, 2020)

@Malleebird - This was TOTALLY my first batch ever!  lol


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## Malleebird (Jun 7, 2020)

DeeAnna said:


> In the interests of ensuring other people aren't misinformed, the numbers are 0.1 - *0.5*%. That's 1 to 5 grams of Liquid Germall Plus per 1000 grams of finished product.
> 
> I recommend the upper amount of 0.5% for hobby/home crafters who aren't able to do formal challenge testing.


Thanks DeeAnna for this information too....my first bottle of LGP has just arrived in the post !!


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## Deborah Long (Jun 7, 2020)

@Malleebird - Please don't make *my* mistake and forget the 0.1!  lol


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 7, 2020)

Malleebird said:


> Thanks DeeAnna for this information too....my first bottle of LGP has just arrived in the post !!


Oh nuts! I was hoping I wouldn't have to go there. But just for the sake of all reading this,_"Fully saponified soap requires no preservative,"_ Catherine Failor, Author,* Making Natural Liquid Soaps.*
If you think about it, hard bars don't require a preservative and they come into contact with water every time you use them and sit in water while drying out after use. The same is true with liquid soap. If fully saponified, it requires no preservative.

I started making LS in 2004. In all these years there's never been a problem. One of the members of the Liquid Soap Makers Group has a manufacturing plant in Indonesia. He and his partner do not add preservative. Dr Bronner's LS has been around since the 60's. No preservative. Vermont Country Store and other commercial, all-natural liquid soap, on the market, do not use preservatives.

That being said, I do understand the mentality of "rather safe than sorry". People are free to do as they choose and if it provides them some peace of mind, so be it.


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## Malleebird (Jun 8, 2020)

Deborah Long said:


> @Malleebird - Please don't make *my* mistake and forget the 0.1!  lol



Lol...


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## Malleebird (Jun 8, 2020)

Zany_in_CO said:


> But just for the sake of all reading this,_"Fully saponified soap requires no preservative,"_



Thank you Zany


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## Malleebird (Jun 8, 2020)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Dr Bronner's LS has been around since the 60's. No preservative. Vermont Country Store and other commercial, all-natural liquid soap, on the market, do not use preservatives.


I meant to include this quote too


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## Pyewacket (Jul 7, 2020)

I realize this is long over now - but could the liquid soap have been frozen? and then used up to make batches over time to get to the proper dilution?


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## Deborah Long (Jul 7, 2020)

@Pyewacket - I don't even think I would have had to do that.  I probably could have just kept it.  I could kick myself for just pitching it out of fear and not using it for cleaning around the house!   Live and learn, eh?


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## Zany_in_CO (Jul 8, 2020)

Pyewacket said:


> I realize this is long over now - but could the liquid soap have been frozen?


@Pyewacket Many LS'ers like to dilute portions at a time as needed. Just like hard soap, liquid soap doesn't need to be frozen to keep. Some people store it in the fridge, but it's not necessary.


Pyewacket said:


> then used up to make batches over time to get to the proper dilution?


My advice: Here's what I did when I was first learning to make LS in 2004.
Make a batch of LS using 12 ounces of oils. 
That makes 16 oz. of soap. 
Divide the 16 oz. into four 4 oz. portions.
From there you can test any variety of dilutions until you find one that suits you.

DILUTION TIP:
100% Coconut oil LS: 40% soap to 60% dilution water
100% Olive Oil LS: 15%-20% soap to 85%-80% dilution water.
All other formulas will fall within that range.

You will know when you reach the perfect viscosity when a film starts to form on the surface. Add a bit more water to fully incorporate the film and you're done.

The ratios result in somewhat watery LS compared to the commercial stuff. That's just the nature of the beast. If it lathers well, cleanses well, and rinses off easily that's what you want to achieve. 

That being said, everyone has a personal preference when it comes to viscosity.

HTH & HAPPY SOAPING!


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