# Shampoo Bar recipe - thoughts?



## dixiedragon (Jan 17, 2019)

This recipe is from Swift Crafty Monkey (now behind a paywall).

I've put the links to the Lotion Crafter products. They have everything I need with 2 maybe exceptions? Can you check these out, especially the items in blue? Thanks!

*CONDITIONING SHAMPOO BAR SUITABLE FOR DRY HAIR*
HEATED PHASE

30% SCI (with stearic acid) – https://lotioncrafter.com/products/surfpro™-sci?variant=16192867172441

22% SLSa or other powdered surfactant – https://lotioncrafter.com/products/surfpro™-slsa?variant=16192678690905

10% SMC or SMO taurate or other gentle surfactant - https://lotioncrafter.com/collections/surfactants/products/foaming-apple I’m just guessing this might work? Do you have a better suggestion?

15% cocamidopropyl betaine – https://lotioncrafter.com/products/surfpro-capb-cocamidopropyl-betaine?variant=13079668359257

3% cetyl alcohol - i have this

3% Incroquat BTMS-50 or cetrimonium bromide https://lotioncrafter.com/products/lotioncrafter-btms-50?variant=13079623139417

10% hard butter of choice - shea? mango? cocoa?

2% hydrolyzed protein – https://lotioncrafter.com/products/hydrolyzed-flax-seed?variant=13079609245785



COOL DOWN PHASE

2% panthenol – https://lotioncrafter.com/products/dl-panthenol?variant=13079591944281

1% dimethicone - i have this


2% essential oil blend

0.5% to 1% preservative – https://lotioncrafter.com/collections/preservatives/products/leucidal-liquid I’m guessing again. Do you have a better suggestion?


Thanks!


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## DeeAnna (Jan 17, 2019)

Do you have polysorbate 80? You could sub PS80 for the SMC/SMO. 

I am getting away from using cetyl alcohol because the formulation that had cetyl in it got awfully soft and mushy in humid weather. I'm using stearic instead with good results so far, but I have yet to evaluate the recipe in a humid Iowa summer.

My hair is fine and slightly dry. I use only 2% fat in my recipe. More than that and my hair is limp. If your hair is curly or coarse, this might not be an issue for you and 10% fat might work great. If you do reduce the fat %, I'd add it to the SLSA %. I've used any fat that appeals to me at the moment -- tallow, shea, "hard" babassu, etc. Any fat that's reasonably solid at room temp is good.

I use liquid germall plus for the preservative. YMMV.


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## cmzaha (Jan 17, 2019)

I do not like the shampoo bar recipes on Swift Crafty Monkey due to the fact they always became very mushy


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## dixiedragon (Jan 17, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> I do not like the shampoo bar recipes on Swift Crafty Monkey due to the fact they always became very mushy



SCM is in Canada, I'm wondering if her substantially cooler weather is the cause? Or maybe she doesn't mind mushy? I'm gonna go with Deanna's Stearic sub. And I also have the Polysorbate 80, so savings there!


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## DeeAnna (Jan 17, 2019)

I don't think Carolyn and I have the answers about why there's this issue. All I know is Susan's recipes and recipes similar to hers aren't working well for me in really humid weather. I _think _their use of cetyl alcohol is a key factor. But please keep in mind I haven't used my no-cetyl recipe in humid weather, so this is just a hypothesis I'm testing. 

What I can tell you is my no-cetyl bars are staying noticeably firmer in the shower this winter (20-30% humidity) than the cetyl based bars I've made in the past. Because they're harder, they're lasting longer, and that's a big plus given the cost of the ingredients.


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## SoaperForLife (Jan 18, 2019)

I have that recipe on my list of ones to try and since you brought it up perhaps someone can tell me... the original recipe calls for SCI with stearic acid but the inci at Lotioncrafter just says Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate.  Would this have stearic even though it's not listed?


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## amd (Jan 18, 2019)

I have not been liking adding Germall Plus to shampoo bars because by the time it gets to the right temperature, the mixture is so firm that it is difficult to get mixed in thoroughly. (I've been combining a small amount of mica with the FO and Germall to help me see when it is thoroughly mixed in.) It's on my list to look into preservatives that can be added at a higher temp and are suitable for this type of product. I don't know anything about preservatives... so I haven't started yet for fear of going down the rabbit hole...

There is a shampoo bar book on my radar by Lisalise that I am curious about. I am a bit concerned because she does clearly state that the shampoo bars are preservative free, which is why I haven't bought the book yet. Well that and it's expensive!


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## Dahila (Jan 18, 2019)

dixiedragon said:


> SCM is in Canada, I'm wondering if her substantially cooler weather is the cause? Or maybe she doesn't mind mushy? I'm gonna go with Deanna's Stearic sub. And I also have the Polysorbate 80, so savings there!


No she is in BC , and they have very high humidity,  People think that Canada is cool no,  i am in Ontario and the temps go up to 45 in humidex which is usually 35 on summer time.  If I knew I would chose Calgary which is cooler much cooler  SM lives in worse climate than I do
I use Stearic acid in mine too and the butter is kokum , it seems to work fine.  I done one without sodium lactate and it is much drier


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## DeeAnna (Jan 18, 2019)

SoaperForLife said:


> ...the original recipe calls for SCI with stearic acid but the inci at Lotioncrafter just says Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate.  Would this have stearic even though it's not listed?



I'm speaking from memory here. SCI comes in various forms, some with stearic and some with other additives. I usually see it's 85% active ingredient and 15% fatty acids and other additives. The fatty acids can be stearic acid or they can be other fatty acids.

I don't think it's a deal breaker if you don't know the % stearic in your product. Just try the formulation as written with the SCI that you have and see how it goes.


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## Cellador (Jan 18, 2019)

I use Phenonip for the preservative...but in that case, you can't use the polysorbates or ceteareth-20.


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## Dahila (Jan 18, 2019)

yeah so not ewax either


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## DeeAnna (Jan 18, 2019)

I prefer BTMS in this type of product, rather than e-wax. BTMS is cationic, so it is able to "stick to" and condition the hair. E-wax doesn't have that ability. 

edit: I keep phenonip and liquid germall plus on hand. I use LGP in this product because it's water soluble and I want to encourage the preservative to migrate into the free water on the surface of the bar where any microbial contamination is likely to be. Phenonip is not water soluble, so it doesn't move into the water phase.

Remember that Sous Vide HP soap challenge awhile back? SaltedFig hosted that one. I've used that technique to make these shampoo bars and it works very well. Yes, liquid germall plus is a pain in the b**t to mix in, but the sous vide method reduces the pain. I put the ingredients go into a heat-resistant plastic bag and put the bag in a warm water bath. As the ingredients melt, the bag lets me "smoosh" the paste through the bag without having to directly stir the sticky paste.

I add the LGP and 2-3 drops of colorant (ultramarine powder mixed in glycerin) to the bag's contents at the appropriate temp. When the color is uniform, it's likely that the LGP is also mixed evenly throughout. Then I push all the paste into a corner, cut off a corner, and press the paste through the hole. That works better than trying to scrape the paste through the original bag opening.


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## SoaperForLife (Jan 19, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> 'm speaking from memory here. SCI comes in various forms, some with stearic and some with other additives. I usually see it's 85% active ingredient and 15% fatty acids and other additives. The fatty acids can be stearic acid or they can be other fatty acids.
> 
> I don't think it's a deal breaker if you don't know the % stearic in your product. Just try the formulation as written with the SCI that you have and see how it goes.


Thanks DeeAnna!


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## Dahila (Jan 19, 2019)

yes I use BTMS too it it is positively charged so it does stick to the hair,  I use BMTS-50 too.  I think I will try Varisoft too


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## SoaperForLife (Jan 20, 2019)

I am only about a week into making syndet shampoo bars.  I used to make and use cold-process shampoo bars many, many years ago.  I liked them but quit when my hair started to thin out due to age (I guess) and have been using bottled shampoo and conditioner since then.  I actually bought the Karma Komba shampoo bar from Lush for "research and comparison" and used that a few times - I don't think it would be a good long-term option for me, or maybe for anyone.  Anyway, so far I have learned that powdered SCI is the way to go if you're making these to sell due to the time/trouble to melt the flakes/prills/noodles and that size really does matter as the ingredients to make these are a bit pricey.  Pardon my prattle as we are snowed in today and I need a break from my experiments...


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## DeeAnna (Jan 21, 2019)

SoaperForLife said:


> ..., so far I have learned that powdered SCI is the way to go...



I agree if a person is melting the ingredients, but the needle form is popular with people who press the ingredients kind of like how a bath bomb is made.


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## SoaperForLife (Jan 22, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> I agree if a person is melting the ingredients, but the needle form is popular with people who press the ingredients kind of like how a bath bomb is made


I see lots of them done that way, including bars from Lush.  I have the "granular" version of SCI which resemble flakes more than powder and I've been experimenting with that.


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## SoaperForLife (Jan 22, 2019)

Regarding the above comment... I purchased the "BeSpoke" shampoo bar guide on Etsy and was looking through it this morning and stumbled upon this: _"By not melting the noodles, flakes, pellets or prills, the mixture of the whole formula will not be isotropic and this is not helpful especially if I am adjusting the pH of my shampoo.  If you are using surfactant noodles with a pH 6, you will not be able to bring the noodles' pH to a 5.5 if it remains in noodle form." _


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## Dahila (Jan 22, 2019)

SCI is around 6ph which is not bad,  I do not use it this way but I do think it is ok
I made a pressed shampoo lowered ph to 5 guessing with the SCS I am getting ph at least 6 .  My hair is incredibly shiny,  Never thought SCS can be that good in shampoo bar, and it is incredibly hard . SCS is high ph around 9.  it took a lot of tries for me to lower the bar to 5 , the noodles higher it again but with the water I do not think it is higher than 6.  With my thin hair I would see the bad results if it was very high ph


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