# Finding MY professional soaping identity



## Guest (Jun 21, 2009)

Okay, I am officially deciding that making soap will be a part of my retirement plan.

My soaps are really really primative looking.  Although I have an art background, I am not at all good at conventional design.  Right now I couldn't make a pretty swirly soap if my life depended on it.

I do feel I have nailed a _basic _ understanding of ingrediants and oils (I started in April, this year)...so I am a super newbie.  I think I have a basic understanding of my local offline market.

I have at least 25 recipes I've tried.  Lard is my favorite medium.  I will be ordering tallow.  I love the orange of unrefined palm and citrus eo.  My all veggie recipe base extremely limited.  My coloring, cutting and molds experience are still in the toddler stage.  Limited success with td and micas, never tried anything else, I have one rippled soap cutter, and my favorite mold is a pyrex casserole dish and a DTV recorder box.

I will be ordering at least 4 bulk oils, some fo's...but I'm still too cheap to buy a loaf mold yet....

what do you guys see in my future?  What should I be doing next?  what should I attempt to master that will put be on the road to more professionalism as a soap maker?


----------



## Dixie (Jun 21, 2009)

Keep in mind that you never stop learning or improving.


----------



## Guest (Jun 21, 2009)

Dixie said:
			
		

> Keep in mind that you never stop learning or improving.



Dixie, I'll tell ya something funny.  more "soap makers" are at the flea market now...and I looked at this one couple's soap...and I felt bad, theirs looked so nice...nice professional labels.  So I brought a bar home.

It's a **** bar a soap from www.naturalsoapwholesale.com...they even had the nerve to look down on my lard soap...and claim they whipped their shea butter for 6 hours, so no perservatives or emulsifiers were needed.

I want to step up my game, so that my real stuff looks even better than the "cheaters"


----------



## Guest (Jun 21, 2009)

So I figure to create a good solid inventory I need

A Lard or animal fat Line      and a All vegatable Line
A moisturizing bar                A mositurizing bar
A cleansing bar                    A cleansing bar
                                          A mild simple bar (for kids)


----------



## Guest (Jun 21, 2009)

Ditto what Dixie said  
I learn something every time I make a batch of soap or read the forums. The sky is the limit , your product would knock the socks off the phony rebranded soap. Make a great bar of soap and the soap sells itself. 
 Soap is my retirement plan too , so I have a few years to make it the best I can . Word of mouth is the best advertising you can get and it's pretty much free.
 I gave the neighbor across the street a bar of gardeners soap yesterday, she tried it and came back to ask if I sell my soap. I don't yet but I will barter with her for plants for the garden. I have had this experience more than once . It leads me to believe that my retirement will be fantastic , doing something I love to do.

HTH

Kitn


----------



## xraygrl (Jun 21, 2009)

If you are going to "up your game", IMHO you really need to get some molds to make a more uniform looking product.

Consider these: 

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid ... Categories

Unfortunately Ikea has discontinued these and you can only find them on Ebay, but I know that some people use the drawers for molds. They have 9 drawers, and that makes 9 log molds for $19.99 plus shipping. Can't beat that! Also the ones with the longer drawers can be used for a slab mold for doing those pretty swirls.


----------



## Guest (Jun 21, 2009)

I don't think you necessarily need to buy a mold, but a box the perfect size for 12 or 18 bars . I made my own slab mold for $7.00 .

Kitn


----------



## Guest (Jun 21, 2009)

xraygrl said:
			
		

> If you are going to "up your game", IMHO you really need to get some molds to make a more uniform looking product.
> 
> Consider these:
> 
> ...



excellent ideal...I ordered my bulk oils...ordered my favorite scents...looking at my budget for color and molds


----------



## kaseencook (Jun 21, 2009)

Maybe your next step could be to write a business plan to focus your ideas and niche market. There's many free templates on the web. It may seem like a futile exercise to begin with, but there comes a lot of clarity and direction with a business plan that can mean the difference between fishing around in the dark and seeing the path to your goals. It's almost sub-conscience. 

This way you can also formulate ideas about the kind of soap making you want to specialize in and the kind of persona you want the life of the business to possess. Having a specialist area (niche market) can really give you an edge, some examples have been things like goats milk soap, medicinal soaps, vegetarian soaps, "all natural" soaps, artistic soaps, luxury soaps, hotel soaps, olive oils soaps, wholesale, custom soaps, ect... with some creativity and good long thinking I'm sure there are other untaped soap markets out there as well. 

From my experience, I would say that the fewer types of soap you start with (maybe like five feature soaps), the better, from a stress point of view, and keep things simple so you can grow slowly. There is nothing more stressful than trying to start big with a huge line of products and then being overwhelmed and loosing direction.... I also find that some people don't like being overwhelmed by choice, especially when they are ordering off the internet and can't experience the soap, I think a lot of people just have to guess what they would like (unless they have shopped there before) and would likely prefer to choose from a small selection of soaps that they can assume are the best of the best because that's why the soap maker chose to make a compact set of their best recipes. 

These are just some things that come to mind, but I'm no expert and you live and learn as you go, I hope you have fun planning everything and making your soap and that you don't get too stressed!


----------



## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

Kaseen thanks for the great advice I will follow it esp the suggestion about 5 good soaps (recipes) 2-animal fat (one cleansing, one moisturizing) and 2 all vegatable (one cleansing, one moisturizing) and one extra mild all veggie

Then I will have some "base scents"...
so far what has either been popular or a personal favorite

orange scents
almond/vanilla cookie
pucker berry/street oil mix

I just really need to define my niche market


----------



## carebear (Jun 22, 2009)

soaps don't moisturize
soaps remove oils
it's the nature of soap


----------



## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

carebear said:
			
		

> soaps don't moisturize
> soaps remove oils
> it's the nature of soap



I think your incorrect about whether soaps "moisturize" or not...perhaps soapcalc calls it conditioning, but I definately think if certain soaps leave certain people dry and itchy...and other soaps can leave that same person's moisture level intact, whereas they are NOT dry and itchy...then a formula can indeed be moisturizing.

I guess the question is whether it's the person's own moisture left intact or is the soap adding something.


----------



## carebear (Jun 22, 2009)

I think we are in agreement - doesn't matter what the term is but soaps don't moisturize: some are just more stripping than others.


----------



## carebear (Jun 22, 2009)

phillysoaps said:
			
		

> ...and other soaps can leave that same person's moisture level intact, whereas they are NOT dry and itchy...then a formula can indeed be moisturizing.


so you are saying that leaving moisture levels intact (i.e., not stripping the oils) is the same as moisturizing?


----------



## cdwinsby (Jun 22, 2009)

What should you be doing next?

I always say....practice, practice and then practice some more! Read so much that you have a really great understanding of your ingredients and the process and not just a basic one.

Pretend you're the customer and ask yourself some questions. Any question about the ingredients or the process. If you can answer them easily and knowledgably, then your customer will realize that you know what you're talking about and that you know what you are doing. Makes the customer very happy to purhcase from you.

Professionalism is knowing your business inside and out and being willing to learn every day.

I've been making soap for 10 years now and I'm always learning something new....I think that's why I find it so much fun.

As for 'primative looking'....uneven, chunky soaps are beautiful too! As long as the soap makes your skin feel 'oh, so goooood' then you've got it nailed.


----------



## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

carebear said:
			
		

> phillysoaps said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i dunno, u tell me....and then explain the purpose of super fatting, which I'm assuming leaves some of the fat or oils unsaponified....


----------



## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

cdwinsby said:
			
		

> What should you be doing next?
> 
> I always say....practice, practice and then practice some more! Read so much that you have a really great understanding of your ingredients and the process and not just a basic one.
> 
> ...



thanks for the advice


----------



## oldragbagger (Jun 22, 2009)

Hey Phillysoaps,
I disagree wholeheartedly that soaps are not moisturizing.  I have extremely dry skin.  If I can get INTO the shower with ashy looking dry skin, shower with a superfatted, butter rich soap and then get out feeling silky smooth and no more ashy look, you can call it what you want, but as far as I am concerned I've been moisturized.


----------



## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

oldragbagger said:
			
		

> Hey Phillysoaps,
> I disagree wholeheartedly that soaps are not moisturizing.  I have extremely dry skin.  If I can get INTO the shower with ashy looking dry skin, shower with a superfatted, butter rich soap and then get out feeling silky smooth and no more ashy look, you can call it what you want, but as far as I am concerned I've been moisturized.



I agree with you 100% 8)


----------



## kaseencook (Jun 22, 2009)

carebear said:
			
		

> soaps don't moisturize
> soaps remove oils
> it's the nature of soap



It is my belief that super fatted soap leaves an oil residue on the hands, which can be seen as a moisturizing effect when washing in water. 

Although soap forms micelles around oils and other particles on the skins surface and they are carried away by the flow of water, some of the extra oils on the soap are attracted (lipophilic = lipid loving) to the lipids in the skin in the aquatic (polar) environment. Oil is more attracted to skin than is it to water, as water is polar and skin is lipophilic, so when washing your hands the super fatted oils will be attracted to you skin, even though soap can carry some of this oil away, I believe that a nice layer remains. To me this is like dipping your hand in oil and then washing your hands with detergent, generally after a normal wash there is still a layer of oil left on your hands and it takes a lot of washing and physical scrubbing/force to get it all off. I would think that the natural oils on your hands are very very thin and mixed with other particles, making them easy to dislodge with soap, where some the thicker and more numerous oils in a supper fatted soap will come in and easily coat the skin in an aquatic environment replacing some/all/more of the removed natural skin oils.  

I don't think that soap is so straight forward that it is a simple matter of differing degrees of removing natural oils from the skin, or else there would be no point to supperfatting and our hands would always feel drier after washing (which is not the case with lovely supper fatted soap), so there must be oils added back onto the surface of the skin from the supper fatted soap to produce the improved moisturizing feel we get after using our super fatted soaps!


----------



## oldragbagger (Jun 22, 2009)

Well said, Kaseencook.


----------



## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

I agree too,  kaseencook and well said . Like oldragbagger,  I have super dry skin , if I can have a bath with my soap and do not need lotion after I dry off .I do believe I would be correct in saying that my  soap  definitely added moisture to my skin . I have always used a ton of lotion , creams etc until I started using my own handmade soap. It has to be something in the soap.

Kitn


----------



## safire_6 (Jun 22, 2009)

How interesting to hear so many of you say that you are newbies and plan soaping to be a part of your retirement.  That is my exact plan too. I've decided to make as much soap as I can in 4 or 5 different fragrances and then jazz them up to make them uniquley mine and then I am giving them away to friends, coworkers, neighbors so I can build business by word of mouth.  I have  been l breathing, sleeping and living soap since last February and I can't stop!  I haven't cleaned my house in over 2 months .  What is happening to me :!!!!

I need help.  Is there a treatment center for soap addicts and maybe a halfway house for extended care?


----------



## carebear (Jun 22, 2009)

believe what you wish - that simply does not make it so.


----------



## SimplyE (Jun 23, 2009)

cdwinsby said:
			
		

> What should you be doing next?
> 
> I always say....practice, practice and then practice some more!



Agreed!

As I read this thread, it makes me realize that even after months/years there is constant change to what you originally thought was a good  bar of soap, including that recipe that you find to be "the one".  I was one who thought that I could sell quickly after soaping for a couple of months.  Not so.  There is so much more involved than just "making soap".  It seems to be such a simple practice, but after all, it is a natural chemistry that makes soap, and there needs to be a considerable amount of research, as well as trial and tribulation, not to mention a ton of expense, to make that bar of soap "just right".  There are just too many variables to take it lightly, IMO.


----------



## carebear (Jun 23, 2009)

I wonder - how many bars of soap would you have to sell to actually support yourself by soaping...

Taking in the ACTUAL cost to make soap, and the price you can ACTUALLY get.

I don't think it'll be much like retirement...


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

carebear said:
			
		

> believe what you wish - that simply does not make it so.



 I believe in what my skin feels like now , after years of suffering with horribly dry skin  , that truly does make it so in my book.





Kitn


----------



## gekko62 (Jun 23, 2009)

safire_6 said:
			
		

> I have  been l breathing, sleeping and living soap since last February and I can't stop!  I haven't cleaned my house in over 2 months .  What is happening to me :!!!!
> 
> 
> I need help.  Is there a treatment center for soap addicts and maybe a halfway house for extended care?



ROFLAO!!! ahh hahaha 

I SO know the feeling LOL

Soapers Anonymous......hi,my name is____,it has been __days since I last soaped   :shock:


----------



## gekko62 (Jun 23, 2009)

cdwinsby said:
			
		

> As for 'primative looking'....uneven, chunky soaps are beautiful too! As long as the soap makes your skin feel 'oh, so goooood' then you've got it nailed.



Ditto

Whenever I see soaps like that(primitive/rustic,woteva),1st thing springs to mind is natural,handmade,gentle. If you're comfy with yr bars that way,I say go for it! I absolutely love the look.

Praps you could have a rustic line & a fancier one??

MAKE some molds..easy-peasy! Even saw a youtube vid where you didn't need nails!


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

carebear said:
			
		

> I wonder - how many bars of soap would you have to sell to actually support yourself by soaping...
> 
> Taking in the ACTUAL cost to make soap, and the price you can ACTUALLY get.
> 
> I don't think it'll be much like retirement...



Carebear, most time for folks, everything is not black and white but shades of grey, of course you've heard this before.

When I see soaping as part of my retirement plan, I look forward and build on what I already have.  I have a thriving daycare business that pays for the roof over my head, my car, blah, blah blah...and long as I pass the business to my daughter I expect that to contiue...now looking forward...soaping is that thing I LOVE!...will bar sales pay a $1,000 a month mortgage...I don't even have the energy to imagine setting that as a goal...HOWEVER...

making gift baskets and  selling other crafters wares in addition to my own...I can definately see in my future and if I can get to $500 a week I can be less of a "burden" to my daughter and what will eventually be her daycare business.  Right now I can make about $100 selling soap in one serious outting...but as you know my material cost is still high.


----------



## carebear (Jun 23, 2009)

no, philly, profit IS black and white.

shades of gray is for when you get into the satisfaction and fun aspect.  which, sadly, don't pay the rent, taxes, or utilities.


----------



## Deda (Jun 23, 2009)

phillysoaps said:
			
		

> Right now I can make about $100 selling soap in one serious outting...but as you know my material cost is still high.



Philly what is your percentage of profit based on your current selling price/COGS?


----------



## oldragbagger (Jun 23, 2009)

Profit is indeed black and white, but how much of that black and white profit needed is purely individual and is where the grey area comes in.  I see that Philly has other resources, continued income from a daycare center, and hopefully social security and none of us knows, or needs to know, what else.  I have a lot of older, retired friends who often say to me how just a few hundred dollars extra a month could help cover their medications, or give them a much needed visit to the grandkids once in awhile or whatever the case might be. 

I too see soaping as PART of my retirement plan.  And an important aspect of the role it will play in my retirement plan does have to do with the fun of it.  I know more bored, aimless, sick retirees than I care to admit.  But I also know retirees with a passion and a zest for life that are living in what we could truly call their golden years.  I want to be one of the latter and I think that being engaged in something that stimulates you, something that you love, contributes to that end beyond anything you can calculate in terms of monetary profit.  That having been said, if it is also something that can bring a little extra cha-ching into the mix, what could be better than that.

Fortunately I have a few years left before those retirement years are upon me, so I am taking it slow.  I experiment and experiment and experiment some more.  As a matter of a fact, my husband gathered up 5 bars of my lavender soap and took it to work yesterday to give to the secretaries because I still have every bar of soap I have made except for the ones we have used.  I guess I'm a little anal about not wanting to let go of any until I have it "just perfect".

Obviously we are a diverse group, and there are so many paths available for us.  But we all share a common obsession and can surely find ways to encourage each other along whatever his/her individual path may be even if that particular way would not be right for us.


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

carebear said:
			
		

> no, philly, profit IS black and white.
> 
> shades of gray is for when you get into the satisfaction and fun aspect.  which, sadly, don't pay the rent, taxes, or utilities.



well care bear...I'll be 46 this year so like Picard says ...I have 20 years to "make it so" 8) 

right now I'm at about $1.58 in material cost per bar...but once I get my first order of bulk oils and lard and tallow, my cost per bar will go under $1.  I am also shooting for a holiday kiosk at one of the local malls, contacting other crafters in my area to see if they are interested...and looking at materials to create bath and body related gift baskets I can sell for $50 that contain $20 or less in materials.


----------



## cdwinsby (Jun 23, 2009)

Every one of the markets I go to is filled with retired folks peddling their wares. They all enjoy what they do and it gives them some pin money. They have their financial planning for the 'bills'. Crafting is for the fun and for the 'extras' in most cases.

They (nor I) worry much about an hourly wage since they are combining 'work' with 'pleasure'. If your hobby and passion is also your job then it's much easier to give yourself a lower hourly rate. Heck, I do this 24 hours a day...I was up at 4:30 this morning...jumped straight out of bed to go and cut soap...even before coffee...now that's nuts! :roll: 

How many people do you know who get paid to have fun? Not many....I feel lucky to be one of those people. Even though I don't actually get paid much, it's more than enough to keep me going. I'm only 41 but I sure hope I'm doing this in some form or another when I 'retire'.


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

Making money full time from soap must be do-able. I mean if there's older family members who are able to help out here and there then it should work as a family business type of project.....?

I'm currently on the sick and I know that if I was ever able to work again, I'd like to make soap for a living.


----------



## carebear (Jun 23, 2009)

pin money is one thing
supporting yourself is another.

soaping is expensive = and some don't see just how expensive because many of the costs are buried in other household bills.  for example, when I'm on a big soaping run my utility bills go up (water and electricity, mainly).  some of my materials costs are included in my grocery bill.  and insurance isn't cheap!!!  

I could go on and on.

I do make money soaping, but sadly nothing near what it costs to run my household.  To do it as my primary means of supporting myself would take oodles of energy and capitol as well.  Not to say it cannot be done - clearly some do it.  Right now I am saving the money toward my retirement - but let me tell you, a full time soaping job to bring in - say $40K a year AFTER TAXES (which, by the way, wouldn't go far where I live) would take a LOT of soap.

Say your oils cost you $0.80 per bar of soap.  Then there are fragrance materials, colorants, packaging.  Then business expenses of insurance, an accountant (if you go full time you may need one! at least for taxes), capitol expenditures, utilities, brochures for your wholesale business.  Don't forget fuel for your car, plus wear and tear.  And even the bins to haul stuff in.  Running that dehumidifier and or air conditioning.  Hell, buying the humidifier.  Kiosk fees and the like aren't cheap - and malls require you to have $1-2 million dollars in liability insurance.  

How much does that come to per bar?  Let's say your bar cost you $2.50 with all that included.  You sell them for $4.  Take out your income tax.  And you are up to a cost of almost $3 per bar.  Say you make, though, $1.20 on a bar of soap in the end.  Then you need only sell 33,000 of them to make that $40,000 to live off of!  Per year.

(ok, so you sell your stuff nekkid - no packaging.  and you only sell at markets with a minimal booth fee, and you forgo taxes.  so you make $3 off each bar.  great.  then you need only sell about 13,300 bars!

AND THAT'S NOT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT PAYING YOURSELF. or anyone else.

Yes, people do it for a living - and that's great.  I'd like to.  I hope to.
But to support oneself on it is a tremendously CHALLENGING full time job.


----------



## gekko62 (Jun 23, 2009)

Personally,I'd look on selling soap as supplementing income,but MOSTLY as a way to afford to keep doing something you love. Seriously,I don't think anyone has the idea to get rich off it.


----------



## Dixie (Jun 23, 2009)

cdwindsby



> They (nor I) worry much about an hourly wage since they are combining 'work' with 'pleasure



My husband was trying to help calculate my expenses and he said I had to include my time. I told him if I did that the bar of soap would cost $30.00!!! You can not calculate the time invested because for one, being a hobby, you spend twice as much time as you need to. If I was making soap calculating my time it would not be enjoyable.

So instead I look at it like this: I get paid for having fun![/quote]


----------



## ibariaSoap (Jun 23, 2009)

I'm noticing that some of the more successful soap makers/sellers have a really specific niche. Some of them go for more modern looks/packaging, some more 'country' looking.. some more 'organic' looking.. it really all depends on your target demographic of those you believe you will be selling to.

 I think the business plan idea is a great one! Don't be afraid to tweak your ideas/goals along the way!


----------



## honor435 (Jun 23, 2009)

do you know anyone that can make you a log mold? I love my bars that are all the time. The wood is so cheap, hubby said that it only cost him 3$ to make!!!
 Just wonder why you like lard or is it crisco? less expensive.


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

carebear said:
			
		

> pin money is one thing
> supporting yourself is another.
> 
> soaping is expensive = and some don't see just how expensive because many of the costs are buried in other household bills.  for example, when I'm on a big soaping run my utility bills go up (water and electricity, mainly).  some of my materials costs are included in my grocery bill.  and insurance isn't cheap!!!
> ...



If it costs you that much carebear I wonder why you would go to the trouble for so little  or no return. It sounds like  if you live in a very high cost of living area  or live very high on the hog ,you are out of luck to try and make a soap business very profitable. Everyone's socioeconomic status is different , because it would be hard for you , certainly does not mean that no one could do it.
  My most luxurious soap costs $1.05 to make + 0.10 for label and packaging .Grand total $1.15 for soap that includes fo color etc. My electricity has not gone up since I started soaping .I do RTCP . ( don't know if that makes a difference or not).My water bill has not changed either . We would be running the AC or furnace and humidifier anyway , but I get to claim the expense on my taxes . I file the grocery bills with any soap supplies in my tax file .The insurance , molds ,  supplies, gas ,utilities , kiosk fees, the bins , depreciation on my car , internet fees, my cell phone, the accountant ,and anything else purchased for the business is deductible as well as the mortgage and tax portions of the rooms dedicated to making soap. I keep track of all expenditures religiously .
 This will be my retirement and I will do well with it .I have 3 years yet to get it perfected . I am retiring early . I have worked **** hard to be able to do it .It can only get better as I learn more , order in larger quantities etc. I don't want to get rich I want to do something I love and make some cash doing it and I will. 
Just for the record I don't sell yet , but we  do have an antiques and collectibles  business that I draw the business experience from.
If I made $20,000.00 a year selling soap in my retirement , I would be laughing all the way to the bank. That is 1.217 batches a day or 8.523 a week , I could easily double those numbers and still have 5 days a weeks to play and run the business. 
It is as easy or hard as one wants to make it . I am a positive and determined person , if I set out to do something I will do it .

Kitn


----------



## sweetcreekherbs (Jun 23, 2009)

cdwinsby said:
			
		

> What should you be doing next?
> 
> I always say....practice, practice and then practice some more! Read so much that you have a really great understanding of your ingredients and the process and not just a basic one.
> 
> ...



Excellent advice.  And, don't be afraid to hand out samples.  The hard part is to get the customer to try it.  Once they do, most of them are hooked.


----------



## carebear (Jun 23, 2009)

Oh, I'm a rich ***** - living high on the hog.  Yep, that';s me. 

But seriously not all of us live in low-cost-of-living parts of the country.  Suburbia ain't cheap.  So where you live $20K is a living.  Where I live we call that poverty level.  

By the way, because the cost of living is higher here, so are the prices we command for our products - so it's not the contrast you pretend it to be.

And no, you won't be able to claim the utilities unless you get separate bills.  Nor likely the soaping room - there are very specific laws about assigning space to a business.  And you forgot income taxes.  You do know it's the law to pay those.  

Deductions are great - they come off your profit.  But you have to pay them regardless.  Even if you depreciate your molds (you really cannot, by the way).

I'm sure you know all this stuff from your other business.  I do from mine.

You make that many batches - and then you have to find someone to buy them.  It's not all in the making as you know.

I really think it would be great if you could support yourself on it.  I'm a big fan of positive thinking.  I encourage you to try, but also to have a backup plan.

*The whole point being - be realistic, take accurate account of costs, and have a backup plan.*


----------



## Deda (Jun 23, 2009)

carebear said:
			
		

> Oh, I'm a rich bitch - living high on the hog.  Yep, that's me.



I just knew it!

I have a few thoughts on the subject _(not of Carebear's lifestyle)_ of soapmaking as a business.

Ya'll come here for advice, yet when advice is given that you don't like you scoff, stomp your feet and cry that it doesn't apply to you.

Listen up kiddos, there are some knowledgeable people here, willing to share their ideas on the making of soap, as well as the business side.  You would be doing yourself a favor by occasionally actually heeding a little of that advice.

Take all the shortcuts you want, skip the insurance, blow off the FDA regs, to hell with occupancy permits and licensure requirements.  
Nobody's gonna find out. Right?  Wrong.

If you decided tomorrow you were going to build houses or race go cart or give piano lessons for a living you would learn how before you started.  
Right? Isn't making soap like that?  

If you want this a business, work it like a business.  
Have your insurance (1 million minimum), permits, licenses.  
Follow every single FDA guideline.  
Have your products thoroughly tested.  
Know your soap at 2, 4, 6 and 12 months.  
A thousand other things that we don't have the space to list.

Nobody is dashing your dreams, just slow down, learn your craft, _it's not a race.  _

If one of us succeeds in making a successful go in business it makes it that much easier for the next.  If you drag your nasty bars of lye heavy soap and sell them from the street corner it makes it harder for all of us.


----------



## SimplyE (Jun 23, 2009)

Deda said:
			
		

> carebear said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well said...


----------



## safire_6 (Jun 23, 2009)

Hey Deda,

As a newbie I think your advice is sound and practical and I am taking it!  Learning from others experiences has always worked for me.  Thanks!


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

carebear said:
			
		

> Oh, I'm a rich ***** - living high on the hog.  Yep, that';s me.
> 
> But seriously not all of us live in low-cost-of-living parts of the country.  Suburbia ain't cheap.  So where you live $20K is a living.  Where I live we call that poverty level.
> 
> ...



I knew it too :wink:

Your advice is pertinent to you or those who live in your state or country , think about that when you post . I live in Canada surely you don't propose to know the tax laws here . I can  and will deduct my soap making space and utilities etc and everything else I posted about in my last post . If I didn't pay my taxes , I sure as heck wouldn't be  talking about deductions , would I now. If there is no contrast , there is something wrong with your business model you talked about charging $4.00 a bar , maybe that isn't enough to make a real profit ? You are assuming I would live off the 20K , no dear, that is my pin money . Why would one depreciate a mold ? It gets worn out or ruined you buy another , a mold is a little different than a car , at least where I live, it is .
 I am being totally realistic and don't really need a back up plan , as phillysoaps and others have stated this is retirement money , not a living , there is a huge difference in the two .

Just for the record I have home and  business insurance and follow the Canada Health Regulations to the letter , regarding labeling , ingredients etc. I have an accountant , I pay taxes . I have been making soap for 7 months now and learn something everyday which will help greatly when I start selling in the next 4 or 5 months. 

Good advice is always accepted graciously .

Kitn

Kitn


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

Deda said:
			
		

> carebear said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Deda is this not a universal soap making forum ? Some of the advice given is not applicable to me  or any other soap maker that does not live in the good old US of A.

Kitn


----------



## Deda (Jun 23, 2009)

Kitn said:
			
		

> Deda is this not a universal soap making forum ? Some of the advice given is not applicable to me  or any other soap maker that does not live in the good old US of A.
> 
> Kitn



Geez Louise Kitty - You're splitting hairs.  Take what you will and leave the rest.  Everyhone here is only trying to help.  

For posterity...


> Ya'll come here for advice, yet when advice is given that you don't like you scoff, stomp your feet and cry that it doesn't apply to you


.


----------



## kaseencook (Jun 23, 2009)

bariaSoap said:
			
		

> I'm noticing that some of the more successful soap makers/sellers have a really specific niche. Some of them go for more modern looks/packaging, some more 'country' looking.. some more 'organic' looking.. it really all depends on your target demographic of those you believe you will be selling to.
> 
> I think the business plan idea is a great one! Don't be afraid to tweak your ideas/goals along the way!



Yes, this is what I was going to say too. This business (http://www.billiegoatsoap.com.au) was on the news a while back, they are a VERY successful handmade soap operation. Their success was mostly due to the their specific niche market of being goats milk soap and appealing to the people with skin conditions, as well as having the authentic fresh goats milk. It looks like they mostly sell to pharmacies and specialty stores all over the country, and probably have a really loyal following of people who have felt the benefits to their skin conditions from the soap. There is a good clip from the show they were on about how they got started and became successful.   

Although the goats milk market niche is probably a bit full, it just takes some really creative brain storming and experimenting to find something really unique and special to offer that will give your venture an identity. It could be a soap of convince (like the invention of soap on a rope!), a soap service (like custom soaps), a medicinal soap (like the goats milk), or whatever cool soap invention you can think of! I suppose most people in the population are happy to just buy cheap crap soap off the shelf and most either don't know handmade soap exists or the benefits of handmade soap or think that it's too expensive for everyday use, so people really need a reason to make the effort to get something special (like a skin condition) and/or your soap needs to be somewhere convenient (like at health food stores, pharmacies, hotels, malls, specialty stores).

Anyway, just some ideas! I know that there can be a lot of discouragement and caution when thinking about selling your products, and that can be a bit of a confidence deflater (heck, it makes me feel down), but I think that with a positive attitude, innovative ideas, confidence in your abilities, using your strengths and working on your weaknesses, success certainly is possible - who knows if YOU will be the next Billy Goat soap! I'm sure the lady that stared Billy Goat soap didn't know she would one day be running a very successful soap business, but she sure would not have succeeded if she had a doubtful attitude that it would not be possible to make a living from soap making. It's manifest destiny - if you are always thinking positively about your ventures you will be able to see the oppertunities to help you succeed, if you are doubtful and negative you will only see the walls in your way and focus on the what brings you down. If you are positive a confident it will definitely make your customers feel like they want to have a slice of that happiness, and feel great using a positive product from a confident positive person! 

There is a big picture, that is made up of small pictures. Insurance, regulations, fees, and admin issues are only a small picture, and is just a matter of doing some research, filling out forms, and dishing out the money when you decide to begin. But these things are just a small part of the overall picture, and can sometimes be over stressed, it is important to not forget the overall big picture and not get overwhelmed by the small pictures. 

You can achieve your goals! With the right attitude and great ideas, you'll see the oppertunities that are out there


----------



## cdwinsby (Jun 23, 2009)

For those of you who haven't read this yet....

Anne-Marie Faiola (aka, the Soap Queen) posted a nine day series on 'Kick Starting Your Business'. It's filled with some fantastic advice on how to focus yourself and create your business plan.

http://soap-queen.blogspot.com/2009/01/ ... -nine.html

I've posted the last day in the series since it lists links to all nine days at the bottom.

I must confess that I have yet to do this BUT it is on 'The List'.


----------



## artisan soaps (Jun 23, 2009)

..


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

MrsJones said:
			
		

> Kitn?  Are you this way with everyone you cross paths with?
> 
> It seems to me, a definite outsider, yet a soapmaker all the same, that everytime you have a disagreement you go on the attack?
> 
> ...



I don't know if it is appropriate for me to weigh in on this but I personally feel there is something that needs to be said.  Kitn has been extremely kind to me as have most people on this forum.  I think the untold story on this forum is that there is another forum that is very unkind to newbies.  It is a place where it seems anything goes and that perhaps those who have participated on both forums may have feeling related to incidents and attitudes that have happened there.

I can only tell my story.  I jumped in on a thead that was controvercial...and I was cussed at, badgered, taunted and then one person encouraged by all the online melee on another forum started to harrass me in real life.  Luckily the person was a minor and not to good about covering their tracks and I was able to contact their parents.

I'm not a fan of any online biting out a person's back.  We need to just agree to disagree, or discuss points not personality.  And those who ARE carrying stuff over from other forums and past disputes need to recognize and admit what they are doing.


----------



## Deda (Jun 23, 2009)

cdwinsby said:
			
		

> For those of you who haven't read this yet....
> 
> Anne-Marie Faiola (aka, the Soap Queen) posted a nine day series on 'Kick Starting Your Business'. It's filled with some fantastic advice on how to focus yourself and create your business plan.
> 
> ...



Great Link!  Thanks!


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

cdwinsby said:
			
		

> For those of you who haven't read this yet....
> 
> Anne-Marie Faiola (aka, the Soap Queen) posted a nine day series on 'Kick Starting Your Business'. It's filled with some fantastic advice on how to focus yourself and create your business plan.
> 
> ...



excellent link...will read tonight


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

artisan soaps said:
			
		

> cdwinsby said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I also jump up like christmas morning, excited to see how each batch set up overnight.

I will definately keep on...and today believe it or not I think I met my future business partner.  I'd advertised for a partner of sorts for this new phase of my life and a woman in her 40's with a 10 year old, looking to move to Philly from another state finally came over to meet me.

I shared about my soap business, and she's a published writer who has fallen on hard times, she writes about holistic health...and I'm so excited we "clicked".  So ya never know where the road can take you being involved with something as simple as soap.


----------



## Bunny (Jun 23, 2009)

Philly, can you do some simple constructions with scrap wood, or do you know someone that can do it for you? I have two wooden log molds that I have been using for years, and they are wonderful. They are super simply made, from scrap pallet wood. They costed almost nothing to make. I paid a friend a few dollars to make them for me and they are the bomb. Mine are (inside dimensions) 8" wide, 4" deep and 18" long.  The logs are spilt down the middle and then cut into 1" slices and makes 36 bars of soap that is 3" or 4" (depending on how full I pour the mold) x 4" x 1".  This is an affordable option for making many uniform bars at a time.
Hope this helps!


----------



## gekko62 (Jun 23, 2009)

Great strides are made in ALL fields,by newcomers who aren't strictured by knowing what ISN'T possible......

just a thought.....


----------



## kaseencook (Jun 23, 2009)

Philly, I definitely know what you mean about the combative attitude on other forums, and like you I really find it to be a huge turnoff. I found that if there was ever mention of a newbie even thinking about a business in the future, there was a gang of soap police ready to run them down and tell them they were not good enough, didn't have the skills, couldn't manage the responsibilities, and that they were hopeless and unrealistic.

It's all well and good to be prepared, but there was so much unnecessary discouragement, bullying and negativity, and assumptions about who people were and what they were capable of, when these people were really just looking for some positive support and ideas, not a scolding.

Anyway, that's why I love this forum, most of the time there is positive support and positive, friendly, non-judgmental, advise - even constructive criticism need not be attacking, and is much more useful when it feels like a friends support rather than a strangers judgement.

Thank you for sharing with us the plans for your retirement! That's the good thing about forums is that you can share a common part of your life with people of similar interests, and maybe connect with people with similar plans for retirement and share in the journey in a supportive environment. 

It sounds like you are off to a great start and I am sure you will get more than just money from your experience!


----------



## carebear (Jun 23, 2009)

Great link.

Philly I thought you said that woman was a friend you were trying to help out. 

Regardless I hope you can make a go of it. 

But to those of you who want to hear nothing but cudos and nothing that doesn't involve cheering - well a positive attitude is important but without a healthy dose of reality you weont be prepared for the challenges you face. 

Rose colored glasses will only get you so far.


----------



## Tabitha (Jun 23, 2009)

> I'm noticing that some of the more successful soap makers/sellers have a really specific niche. Some of them go for more modern looks/packaging, some more 'country' looking.. some more 'organic' looking.. it really all depends on your target demographic of those you believe you will be selling to.


This is the best statement I have seen in this thread so far, but I am only on page 3 & trying to catch up.


----------



## Tabitha (Jun 23, 2009)

> You can not calculate the time invested because for one, being a hobby, you spend twice as much time as you need to. If I was making soap calculating my time it would not be enjoyable.



A better way to do it is to calculate_ reasonable time_. That is just like if you had to run out & buy emergency  M&P soap base at the hobby shop for $6.00 a pound. You can not charge your customer that mark-up just because you ran out. You charge what is reasonable & what a reasonable.


----------



## Tabitha (Jun 23, 2009)

> If it costs you that much carebear I wonder why you would go to the trouble for so little or no return.



It costs everyone that much, give or take a smidge. Most people just don't think about all the little details. I find it informative that carebear has laid it all out. It makes you/me/we think about all the little things that slip through the cracks. When you/I/we truely understand what it takes & what it cost you/I/we will be better armed to make wiser choices.

Soap is a low dollar item, but you make up for that in volume. It's an item people replace monthly. So while you/we/I may only profit a dollar or 2 on each bar, we can sell 1000 bars in X amount of time. The profit on a 2,000 oil painting is much higher, but your volumn will be much lower.

That si why everyone does need to know exactly where they can save an extra .10cents and needs not to foget about that nickles worth of so & so . I always forget to add the cost of paper towels, etc, which I use a lot of. 

When you think about it, .10 savings x 6,000 basr of soap a year is 600. That 600 is not just 600 though, if you spent it on additional supplies & sold those soaps for a 4x mark up, that 600 becomes 2400... and all because you saved .10cents a bar or remembered to include paper towels in your cost report... etc...

Disclaimer: The above is not relavent if this is ony a hobby.


----------



## Tabitha (Jun 23, 2009)

> You make that many batches - and then you have to find someone to buy them. It's not all in the making as you know.



LOL! I have changed my mind, that is the very best statement I have read all day. Making product is maybe 5% of the time I invest in my biz.  Finding someone to buy what you have made is the real trick & it seems like today there is a soapmaker on every block so branding is most important.


----------



## Tabitha (Jun 23, 2009)

Wow, you girls got heated.

I wanted to interject that 20,000 in one neighborhood can very well = 40,000 in another.  The same exact house in N Dallas will cost $350,000  and will cost $125.00 in my town just 1 hour S of Dallas, so that argument is silly, not relavent and borders on abuse .


----------



## kaseencook (Jun 23, 2009)

carebear said:
			
		

> Great link.
> 
> Philly I thought you said that woman was a friend you were trying to help out.
> 
> ...



Why can't a "healthy dose of reality" be friendly, tactful and positive? 

Being positive does not mean being unrealistic and non-constructive, and the people you are giving advice to will be much more receptive and appreciative when they do not feel scolded. If people are shamed and scolded by advice, then they will want to retaliate and be defensive, if the advice is given in a tactful and positive/encouraging manor it is more likely to be received and taken on board. Since we are all strangers here, giving critical advise to people we don't know can involve making a lot of assumptions about them, and if not delivered in a tactful and sensitive way can be a recipe for negative interactions and an unfriendly forum. But I have seen a lot of constructive real world advise given on this forum in very positive and supportive ways that were well received. After all, from what I have read in the mission statement of this forum it's intension is to be a positive and supportive forum and free from the negativity that has plagued other forums.


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

carebear said:
			
		

> Great link.
> 
> Philly I thought you said that woman was a friend you were trying to help out.
> 
> ...



care bear "what woman" are u talking about?

an my rose tinted glasses have last me quite a few years...they were on special at Walmart


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

kaseencook said:
			
		

> carebear said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



HERE HERE! I second this emotion :!:  8)


----------



## Deda (Jun 23, 2009)

I think Carebears response was friendly, tactful and positive.

I feel it's a calculated decision to post an idea or plan specifically to draw us into a dialog where our ideas aren't going to be in sync.  The logical progression is going to lead to a sometimes heated discussion. That's not such a bad thing, much can be learned by all parties.

Getting pissy because not everyone is jumping on a half baked idea is unrealistic and non-constructive.  Going on the attack is contrary to the goals of this forum. 

Positive and supportive doesn't mean stroking the ego.

IMHO.


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

throughout this thread...I couldn't fight the thought....

carebear, I've never seen your soap :twisted: 

may I?


----------



## Tabitha (Jun 23, 2009)

philly,
carebear is about to host a swap, keep your eyes peeled & you can swap a bar w/ her if you like.


----------



## SimplyE (Jun 23, 2009)

I personally think this thread needs to be closed.  There is too much negativity of late, and this thread is going no where.  

There are people out there who have a lot of experience and good information and are willing to give their advice...from experience.  I have learned more this way than I ever could by reading a book.  In order to better ourselves, we all need to take the experence of others and take advantage of it.  They are not wrong.  It is just that it has worked for them!

Why is it that some of the "newby's" seem to want the one's with more experience to "prove" themselves?  Grow the he!! up!  Take advantage of what they have to say and quit bickering or trying to pick fights.  

Mods, I would love to see this thread closed.


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

Tabitha said:
			
		

> philly,
> carebear is about to host a swap, keep your eyes peeled & you can swap a bar w/ her if you like.



wouldn't it be easier for me to keep my eyes peeled for a photo or 2 on a forum?

whats a swap?


----------



## Guest (Jun 23, 2009)

SimplyE said:
			
		

> I personally think this thread needs to be closed.  There is too much negativity of late, and this thread is going no where.
> 
> There are people out there who have a lot of experience and good information and are willing to give their advice...from experience.  I have learned more this way than I ever could by reading a book.  In order to better ourselves, we all need to take the experence of others and take advantage of it.  They are not wrong.  It is just that it has worked for them!
> 
> ...



I say close it right after I get to see a picture...soap porn...soap...porn...isn't that what it's called :twisted:  :twisted:


----------



## krissy (Jun 23, 2009)

phillysoaps said:
			
		

> Tabitha said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



it is when a bunch of people send a certain amount of soaps to one person then the hostess sends back your box with one of everything that was received. so everyone gets a something from everyone else who participated.

look in  http://soapmakingforum.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=22


----------



## Lindy (Jun 24, 2009)

Hmmm - in Kitn's defense I have neber found her to be a negative personality type anhd Mrs. Jones I would love to have enough time to review all of one person's posts, I'm a little busy for that.  In Canada we can claim a portion of of the square footage of our home as a tax write-off for our business, we are also entitled to take the same percentage of our uytilities as a write-off for the business.  The laws between each country are significant in their differences, but our commonality should be our love of soaps.  We are allso entitled to charge mileage on our vehicle if we use it for business.

I am one of those who uis starting a business in Soap, Bath & Body.  Is it a challenge - you bet, can it be done - absolutely.  It takes a solid business plan and like any other business venture it takes time to break even, let alone make a profit.  Being self-employed allows us to claim a significant amount of things as write-offs that we couldn't as an individual working for someone else so it does end up balancing off because we are not going to pay as much in income tax for each dollar earned.

So let's try to remember that there are differences, not only in the laws of our countries but in our cost of living.  I can make 24,000  go as far where I live as 40,000 in a big city.  I am willing to work the hours which will enable me to make a living doing what I love whereas I am no longer willing to do the high pressure, big money job I left behind after my illness.

Just my 2 cents here.  

Now if I have offended anyone, please accept my apologies, but this kind of bashing is a tad annoying when people are speaking specifics in areas they only know the generalities.  Carebear I have a great deal of respect for your knowledge as a soapmaker and am glad to read your posts - Kitn, you are a generous individual and are working a solid plan towards making this your career, you DO know your tax lawas as well as the cosmetic laws here in Canada, and from what I have gathered follow them to the letter.  Mrs. Jones you don't know what you are talking about.  I find both Carebear & Kitn to be helpful and generous to newbies as well as others who ask for assistance.

Cheers
Lindy


----------



## Guest (Jun 24, 2009)

kaseencook said:
			
		

> Why can't a "healthy dose of reality" be friendly, tactful and positive?
> 
> Being positive does not mean being unrealistic and non-constructive, and the people you are giving advice to will be much more receptive and appreciative when they do not feel scolded. If people are shamed and scolded by advice, then they will want to retaliate and be defensive, if the advice is given in a tactful and positive/encouraging manor it is more likely to be received and taken on board. Since we are all strangers here, giving critical advise to people we don't know can involve making a lot of assumptions about them, and if not delivered in a tactful and sensitive way can be a recipe for negative interactions and an unfriendly forum. But I have seen a lot of constructive real world advise given on this forum in very positive and supportive ways that were well received. After all, from what I have read in the mission statement of this forum it's intension is to be a positive and supportive forum and free from the negativity that has plagued other forums.




Amen sister Amen. I nominate this for best post I have seen lately.


----------



## Guest (Jun 24, 2009)

Thank you for your advice on the subject of selling  . Isn't it always a little bit of a contraversial subject when it happens? lol.

I wonder if AshleyR is reading this thread? I say that because I know she's completing the SEB program in Canada and starting a B&B business (saw her youtube vid). I'm actually thinking of applying for the same thing in about 6months or so. It's not called SEB in the UK, it's something else but basically it's a government run scheme which enables people who have been out of work for more than 3 months to start their own business, helps them get started etc. 

So that's where I'm at. I just figured I now have 6 months of CP soap making behind me....wow time flies :shock: 

Is there anyone else on this forum who has completed/is completeing a SEB type of placement?


----------



## Guest (Jun 24, 2009)

Soap_for_breakfast said:
			
		

> Thank you for your advice on the subject of selling  . Isn't it always a little bit of a contraversial subject when it happens? lol.
> 
> I wonder if AshleyR is reading this thread? I say that because I know she's completing the SEB program in Canada and starting a B&B business (saw her youtube vid). I'm actually thinking of applying for the same thing in about 6months or so. It's not called SEB in the UK, it's something else but basically it's a government run scheme which enables people who have been out of work for more than 3 months to start their own business, helps them get started etc.
> 
> ...



You know 10 years ago here in the US they had a similar program, if you were on unemployment assistance, you went through business start up training...then any money you made would not be deducted from your benefits.

I went through it prior to opening my daycares.


----------



## Guest (Jun 24, 2009)

Phillysoaps, did it help you a lot? were you able to get started successfully and survive on a basic income?


----------



## madpiano (Jun 24, 2009)

Soap_for_breakfast said:
			
		

> Thank you for your advice on the subject of selling  . Isn't it always a little bit of a contraversial subject when it happens? lol.
> 
> I wonder if AshleyR is reading this thread? I say that because I know she's completing the SEB program in Canada and starting a B&B business (saw her youtube vid). I'm actually thinking of applying for the same thing in about 6months or so. It's not called SEB in the UK, it's something else but basically it's a government run scheme which enables people who have been out of work for more than 3 months to start their own business, helps them get started etc.
> 
> ...



I am in the UK as well and I am starting my own business for B&B. I was only made redundant 1 month ago, so I don't qualify for the SEB Thing, I am using my redundancy money for start-up capital and claim JSA instead. Jobsite Plus has information about the SEB thing (I think it's under employer publications), but you need to be unemployed for 6 months to qualify. 

It's hard work. The making of the product is actually the least of it. Thats the fun part. But the certifications, paperwork and record-keeping is a pain. Then you need to work out your logo, website, twitter-presence, Facebook Presence (don't forget to register your name on the 28th !!). As I make CP soap, planning ahead to have cured bars was my downfall. I have everything else, but my bars are still curing, so can't sell for another 4 weeks or so. That gives me 4 weeks to check out possible market stalls etc....I am now working more time than I did in my full time job before, but it is so much more fun


----------



## madpiano (Jun 24, 2009)

oh, and I wanted to say that I didn't find any of the responses here nasty. They were all well thought out and thanks to carebear to mention all the little things that get forgotten.


----------



## Guest (Jun 24, 2009)

Soap_for_breakfast said:
			
		

> Phillysoaps, did it help you a lot? were you able to get started successfully and survive on a basic income?



That program was my start, it gave you the freedom to begin to make money on your own without the risk of defrauding the government.  It took the pressure off so, you did not have to use your time for job search and as a group everyone was supportive.  I believe we did about 10 classes on entrepuenuership, with speakers.

So here I ma 10 years later and still in business.


----------



## Deda (Jun 24, 2009)

Programs like that seem like a great idea.  I'm glad there are things like that available, in these economic times startup businesses have a tough time staying afloat.

Does anyone have any statistics on survival rates of businesses that started under these programs.


----------



## oldragbagger (Jun 24, 2009)

So much food for thought on this thread (personality clashing aside).  

I have only been making soap for a couple of months and I absolutely love it.  I can see where I wouldn't mind using it as an avenue for a little something extra when I retire (it will not be my sole means of support by any means).  Partly for a little pin money, partly because it's just so much damned fun.  I have owned a craft type business before and have worked the craft fairs, etc.  So I have an idea of how that process works.  I have also been a successful seller on eBay for many years, so I know how that process works as well.

I guess, unlike some of the newbies, I am not in a big hurry to become a soaping empire.  I am considering 2009 my "experimentation year".  I am testing recipes, giving away soaps to friends and family and delighting in trying my own creations.  It's a rush to step into the shower and try a new bar for the first time, anticipating whether or not what you hoped to create will indeed perform as you expected.  Then brainstorming to try and figure out how you can make it a little bit more wonderful the next time.

I have a list of folks who have agreed to be testers for me.  They have committed to trying the bars I send them and providing me with a brief report of their opinion about the bar.  Sometimes it's hard to be biased about your own creation.  I want to know whether or not, if they had paid $4-$5 for the bar, would they do it again.  Why or why not?

If this year goes well, if I'm still having fun doing it 6 months from now, if people like it and my feedback is positive, if I have settled on some recipes that I feel are worthy of the cost........ if, if, if.......  Then first thing in January I will apply for all the proper licenses and permits, get my tax ID # and stick my big toe in the water.  I will continue to take it slow and I will do it as long as it remains fun.  I'll just have to see what grows from that.

(By the way, the IRS does allow for what it calls "casual sales" without collecting tax, and I believe you can have $500 income in such sales per year.  I would look into that more fully before taking my word for it, but that is what I read somewhere.)

I think I would find the process a lot more daunting if I were under some kind of pressure to fire up a big soap business overnight.  I also think that might tempt a person to skip some important steps in the realm of just research, learning and the perfecting of the craft.  After all, you are asking folks to trust the largest organ on their body, their skin, to what you are handing them.  We have an obligation to make it right, and make it safe.

There is so much to learn (and this forum has been excellent in facilitating that learning).  But the learning is a huge part of the fun for me.  Many nights I am up to all hours scouring the net for information or reading the latest soaping book I found.  I think that this is too important a stage to rush through, at least for me.  

I am going to start NOW though, tracking costs meticulously.  I am interested to see where my expenses fall in relation to everyone elses.  When I have accumulated some hard data, I will report back.

Thank you all for you insights.

Becky


----------



## Guest (Jun 24, 2009)

Madpiano, Good luck with your business. I'm definitely going to look into the whole thing at some point. Are you a musician? I am and would never need to rely on selling soap as I have music to back me up.





			
				phillysoaps said:
			
		

> Soap_for_breakfast said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's great news!


----------



## madpiano (Jun 24, 2009)

sorry soap for breakfast, I am not a musician. I am as musical as a horny cat at 3am actually....  

I will see how this pans out for a while. For the last 3 years I was working while the BF was at home. I advised him that he will have to find a job by September, so we can swap for a change. So I won't have to rely on soapmaking to keep us afloat for a while yet. 

There really is not much work out there anyways, at least not in what I enjoy doing and wages have dropped quite considerably. So I have a choice of being unemployed and mope, collecting benefits or use this time to start my business with a creative hobby that I enjoy. I have been working in a technical, office based job for the last 13 years. I think it's time to get more creative and spend some time with my teenage daughter before she is all grown up. 

Good thing is, that my technical training allows me to set up my own website, run my own servers and fix my own PC....I also did a bank clerk apprenticeship in germany (accounting sorted), worked in pubs and as a stewardess( face to face customer service sorted), worked in call-centres (direct sales training) and know lots of people from all walks of life (mouth-to-mouth advertising). 

Whereabouts in the UK are you based ?


----------



## SoapRMe (Jun 24, 2009)

*I have been delivered...I hope you like me!*

I made my first batch of soap in 1982.  It was so bad that I tied everything...spoons, spatula, pan, disgusting soap, and all into an old sheet and took it to the garbage.  My soap making days were over!  To put an exclaimation point on that dismal effort a Barred Rock rooster chased me back to the house...wings a flappin!  Ten years ago I tried again, and now I plan to make soap part of my retirement, too.  I found this list and loved it!  Your posts cover the things I think about.  I understand what it's like to eat...breath...think soap 24 hours a day.  I understand what it is like have more success at selling my soap than I ever thought possible, and still want to write an email asking for an assessment of where I am, and ask your opinion about what I should do next.  Philly I could relate so much to your question about where you were at with your business.  So I have experience to share, and many things to learn.  I found this group today because I was trying to answer a question.  
Recently I purchased a lye tank and an oil tank.  I have enough capacity to mix several biggy sized batches into the tanks.  They heat the oils and lye to 98.  This batch is bigger because I also, now, have bigger molds.  My question, less than a week into this new 'bigger batch' endeavor is:  How much lye solution should I be using for each batch?  Lets say there are 41oz of lye and 103 of water...I am assuming that I should take 144 oz from the tank using both the lye weight and the water weight rather than just the water weight...or is there another formula?


----------



## heyjude (Jun 24, 2009)

Gee.. I hadn't seen the last few pages of this post till now and I'm a bit shocked.  :shock: 

There IS a lot of good advice in this thread and I really appreciate that. In fact,  I should show it to my husband who thinks that just because I have made a few successful soap batches  and people are offering to buy it,  I should be selling it.  

But I know better and that is because of all the sound advice I have read over the last several months. Maybe years down the line, but certainly not now. But that is what's right for me and everyone's situation is different.

With that said, I want to close by saying that imho Kitn is one of the most welcoming and encouraging members in this forum. Her positive outlook and friendly comments make me want to visit Canada and visit for a cup of joe! 

And I am so envious of Carebear's soaping knowledge! With her years of soaping and business experience, she is such a great resource for this forum. I would love to think that one day I could possess a pinky full of what she knows. (I also would love to see pics of your soap!! )

I hope that while we may disagree on some things that our common infatuation with soap will bring us together rather than divide us. And the personal attacks will stop. Kumba ya.

Peace out,

Jude


----------



## Guest (Jun 24, 2009)

Mad piano, I'm based in Newcastle at the minute.



			
				heyjude said:
			
		

> I hope that while we may disagree on some things that our common infatuation with soap will bring us together rather than divide us. And the personal attacks will stop. Kumba ya.
> 
> Peace out,
> 
> Jude



Well said


----------



## Guest (Jun 24, 2009)

heyjude said:
			
		

> Gee.. I hadn't seen the last few pages of this post till now and I'm a bit shocked.  :shock:
> 
> There IS a lot of good advice in this thread and I really appreciate that. In fact,  I should show it to my husband who thinks that just because I have made a few successful soap batches  and people are offering to buy it,  I should be selling it.
> 
> ...



Thank you heyjude , you are more than welcome to visit anytime. I make a mean cuppa joe


----------



## heyjude (Jun 24, 2009)

I'll bring the muffins!!    

Jude


----------



## Guest (Jun 24, 2009)

heyjude said:
			
		

> I'll bring the muffins!!
> 
> Jude



Perfect   

Kitn


----------

