# Using lard, oily soap result



## UrsaMinor (Jan 4, 2021)

Hi y'all! I have a question. I've made around 7 batches and I've been using tallow for around 60-90% of my soaps. Most of them were hard to very hard  and everything was great. Then. Duh duh duh. I started using lard and I find that my soaps are really oily when I unmold and cut them. Is it normal? Should I have smaller lye discount? Does the oiliness worsen? I'd like to keep going with lard but I feel a bit sad right now.  Thanks!


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## DeeAnna (Jan 4, 2021)

Lard soap, properly made, isn't oily. It might not be as hard as tallow soap, but that doesn't mean it's oily.

You don't say a single word about the recipe you're using and your method of making the soap, so how can any of us critique your superfat, etc.? Provide more specific info, please and then maybe you can get the advice you're wanting.


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## UrsaMinor (Jan 4, 2021)

I used cold-process and superfatted it at 5%. If it bothers you to answer me, feel free not to. I'm new to this, yes, but you're not repping the camaraderie of this forum which I have so enjoyed at this point by giving me attitude. The best teachers are patient with their students.


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## cmzaha (Jan 4, 2021)

Try mixing lard and tallow it makes a wonderful combination.


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## cmzaha (Jan 4, 2021)

UrsaMinor said:


> I used cold-process and superfatted it at 5%. If it bothers you to answer me, feel free not to. I'm new to this, yes, but you're not repping the camaraderie of this forum which I have so enjoyed at this point by giving me attitude. The best teachers are patient with their students.


DeeAnna is never bothered with answering, and she said nothing condescending or rude or whatever you took it as, on the other hand, I can be all of those in my old age so accept my apologies now. No one can help you without your recipe, and she did not even get short with you as we can sometimes do, or as newbies sometimes think we do. DeeAnna is our resident chemist with a wealth of information that she readily takes her time to share. 

If you are here to *learn* then stick around you will learn, even when you may not like the answers you get. We are not here to sugar coat and baby, we are here to teach how to make safe soap. We have extremely knowledgeable soapmakers in this forum, better than you will find in most FB forums.


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## SoapDaddy70 (Jan 4, 2021)

UrsaMinor said:


> I used cold-process and superfatted it at 5%. If it bothers you to answer me, feel free not to. I'm new to this, yes, but you're not repping the camaraderie of this forum which I have so enjoyed at this point by giving me attitude. The best teachers are patient with their students.


DeeAnna is one of the most helpful people I have had the pleasure of dealing with on this forum. I am a new soapmaker and have asked many questions on this forum and everyone has been very helpful. What I have noticed lately on some other forums I am on is that every new person wants their hand held through every step and asks multiple questions and expects miracle answers that will allow them to make soap without any effort put into actually learning about it. Seems the formula is - find more knowledgeable people - suck them dry of all the knowledge and hard work they put into their craft and not actually do any research on your own. What Deanna is asking is that if you expect to be helped - at least give as much information as possible so that you can get the answers you are looking for. Do a little work on your end and you will reap the benefits of some of the great people on this forum. Do the bare minimum and you don't really deserve their time.


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## Carly B (Jan 4, 2021)

UrsaMinor said:


> I used cold-process and superfatted it at 5%. If it bothers you to answer me, feel free not to. I'm new to this, yes, but you're not repping the camaraderie of this forum which I have so enjoyed at this point by giving me attitude. The best teachers are patient with their students.



I think you are misinterpreting DeeAnna's comments.  She is by far one of the most helpful members of the forum.  As you look through the forum posts, you will notice that a lot of people ask for recipe advice or problem solving. None of us can tell you about why your soap behaves this way or that way without knowing everything that went into it.  Changing oils or additives make a difference.  I make lard soaps, tallow soaps, and lard/tallow soaps, which are hubby's favorite.  None of mine are ever oily.  It's not a common reaction, so knowing what you put in your soap and at what quantities will help troubleshoot.  If you don't want help, that's fine.  But if you truly want help, help us help you.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 4, 2021)

I don't have an attitude, and if I thought it was going to be a bother to give advice, I wouldn't have posted in the first place. You have to be willing to first explain what you did so we can help you to figure out what went wrong. All the patient hand holding in the world won't solve a problem if you aren't willing to share the parameters of the problem.

Based on what you told us so far --

Cold process method is plenty fine.
Although I superfat at 2-3% as a personal preference, many others use 5% with fine results.

We still don't have much more info -- such as what you used as the lye concentration, or what other fats you might be using in addition to lard, or whether the soap got warm enough during saponification to gel, or what other additives you may have used and the amounts of each. So we can't help you troubleshoot any of these issues.

Maybe your water content is overly high, or your soap didn't gel, or you could improve your recipe with a blend of fats, or some additive is throwing a monkey wrench in the works. Or maybe you had a measurement error that gave you a higher superfat than expected because the battery in your scale is dying or you forgot to tare the scale or something.

Hard to say.


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## Saponificarian (Jan 4, 2021)

UrsaMinor said:


> I used cold-process and superfatted it at 5%. If it bothers you to answer me, feel free not to. I'm new to this, yes, but you're not repping the camaraderie of this forum which I have so enjoyed at this point by giving me attitude. The best teachers are patient with their students.



Are you serious?! You need help, you are being asked to provide information and you are throwing a hissy fit?

While the best teachers are patient with their students, the best students are the ones that are humble enough to not let their ego get in the way of their learning. You are not* repping* the comradery SMF represents so lose the attitude.


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## Hope Ann (Jan 4, 2021)

UrsaMinor said:


> I started using lard and I find that my soaps are really oily when I unmold and cut them. Is it normal? Should I have smaller lye discount? Does the oiliness worsen? I'd like to keep going with lard but I feel a bit sad right now.  Thanks!



Besides what was already mentioned, I would want a clarification of what you mean by oily.  Does it feel oily when you wash with the soap?  Is there oil sitting on the soap?

The more details you provide, the more likely you are to receive a pinpointed, accurate answer.

Hope


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## rdc1978 (Jan 4, 2021)

UrsaMinor said:


> I used cold-process and superfatted it at 5%. If it bothers you to answer me, feel free not to. I'm new to this, yes, but you're not repping the camaraderie of this forum which I have so enjoyed at this point by giving me attitude. The best teachers are patient with their students.



I've felt like you have.  I just think some people communicate differently, especially online.  Its hard to read between  "no nonsense and just wants to get information to help" and "bothered and dismissive"

@DeeAnna  has normally been so helpful to me so I think its just a matter of difficulty in reading tone.

You should ask questions and so I wouldn't want you to feel scared to do so.  There is so much more knowledge available now than ever before.  Maybe just try to give people the benefit of the doubt....its hard, but there isnt much lost by assuming the best of people.  Though its human nature not to, so I totally understand. 

PS- wish I could help but I know nothing about lard soap except the only batch I made ages ago smelled like floral lard!!!!  Maybe it's the brand?


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## DeeAnna (Jan 4, 2021)

You bring up a good point, @Hope Ann. It brought to mind my experience when my soap overheats a little bit. There can be a film or droplets of glycerin/lye/fragrance oil/etc. on the surfaces of the soap when I remove it from the mold. This liquid can feel oily on my fingertips even if it really isn't oil. (And it's probably best to get it washed off ASAP, since it's most likely caustic and that's not good for skin.) In my experience that normally gets absorbed by the soap in a day or so, and after that the soap feels fine.


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## DoriLou (Jan 4, 2021)

DeeAnna said:


> Lard soap, properly made, isn't oily. It might not be as hard as tallow soap, but that doesn't mean it's oily.
> 
> You don't say a single word about the recipe you're using and your method of making the soap, so how can any of us critique your superfat, etc.? Provide more specific info, please and then maybe you can get the advice you're wanting.


This


DeeAnna said:


> Lard soap, properly made, isn't oily. It might not be as hard as tallow soap, but that doesn't mean it's oily.
> 
> You don't say a single word about the recipe you're using and your method of making the soap, so how can any of us critique your superfat, etc.? Provide more specific info, please and then maybe you can get the advice you're wanting.


Umm, maybe you didn't mean to come across so condescending and mean, but you did. For us newborn babes in soap land, this is exactly what makes us not want to even ask questions about our exciting new pastime, but Soap Forum is known to be a safe place with its kindness and patient, teaching answers. Grace and mercy on each other, folks. After all, if we're posting, we just survived 2020 alongside each other.


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## Catscankim (Jan 5, 2021)

And this is what you decided to be your first post @DoriLou 

If she didn't want to take the time to answer, then she wouldn't have replied at all. She is a scientist and required more information to give an educated answer to their problem. There is a difference between straightforward and condescending. And condescending she is not. There are not many places where you are going to have an actual scientist give you their precious time to answer your questions. If the OP  simply gave her the information she need to analyze the problem, they would have gotten a well thought out, detailed -make your head spin- reply...bulletted, highlighted, with links and references.

And if you notice, they are all still hashing out what could be the problem with this person's soap, despite the hissy fit over misunderstanding @DeeAnna intentions in her reply.

I have been accused of being mean to the "kiddos" at work. I am not mean, I am blunt, and if I notice you doing something wrong, then I will tell you. Learn from me the way I teach or sink. Suck it up buttercups.

Some people are so delicate, and need their "safe place".


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## Arimara (Jan 5, 2021)

DoriLou said:


> This
> 
> Umm, maybe you didn't mean to come across so condescending and mean, but you did. For us newborn babes in soap land, this is exactly what makes us not want to even ask questions about our exciting new pastime, but Soap Forum is known to be a safe place with its kindness and patient, teaching answers. Grace and mercy on each other, folks. After all, if we're posting, we just survived 2020 alongside each other.


I don't see anything mean or condescending in what DeeAnna said. DeeAnna has actually been one of the nicest posters here in my time as a member. She's also a wealth of information and was on the money. In order to pinpoint what [may have] went wrong in a recipe, we need the recipe itself to be written, preferably in weights or in percentages, if you mention how much oil(s) was used.

OP's said their soap was oily. Without a recipe, we can only assume that they may have mismeasured somewhere or they bought bad lye.


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## kevenaeakin (Jan 5, 2021)

DeeAnna said:


> Lard soap, properly made, isn't oily. It might not be as hard as tallow soap, but that doesn't mean it's oily.
> 
> You don't say a single word about the recipe you're using and your method of making the soap, so how can any of us critique your superfat, etc.? Provide more specific info, please and then maybe you can get the advice you're wanting.


Deanna hi I just want to say thanks for the information you put in soapy stuff on your website. I only found it a few days ago and it is so interesting an educational. You gone to a lot of trouble to put it there, thank you


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## Gaisy59 (Jan 5, 2021)

Saponificarian said:


> Are you serious?! You need help, you are being asked to provide information and you are throwing a hissy fit?
> 
> While the best teachers are patient with their students, the best students are the ones that are humble enough to not let their ego get in the way of their learning. You are not* repping* the comradery SMF represents so lose the attitude.


 Sorry but i just had to laugh...

Well said and I am glad that this us straightforward.


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## rdc1978 (Jan 5, 2021)

Everyone is saying their piece and I am glad because thats what a forum is about.  

However, props to the new soapers for having the courage to ask questions, even if they don't ask them the right way or inadvertently misread tone.  

Its brave to put yourself out there and ask a question that might be dumb or seem dumb.  It's super easy to become self conscious with so many experienced and knowledgeable soapers. 

As a soaper who is starting to (perhaps wrongly) think that she should sit at the big kids table I really appreciate these questions.  I NEVER use lard and had been sorta maybe considering trying it again since people rave about it and I've seen a few lards treated in order to make them unscented.  I would have never known about some of the ins and outs of working with lard had the question not been asked.  

So, long story short, thank you knowledgeable soapers.. for your knowledge and willingness to share and thank you super newbie soapers for having the stones to ask questions!  

Now, let me cut my 5th failed clamshell swirl soap.


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## Kiti Williams (Jan 5, 2021)

DeeAnna said:


> I don't have an attitude, and if I thought it was going to be a bother to give advice, I wouldn't have posted in the first place. You have to be willing to first explain what you did so we can help you to figure out what went wrong. All the patient hand holding in the world won't solve a problem if you aren't willing to share the parameters of the problem.
> 
> Based on what you told us so far --
> 
> ...




I have always respected your advice.  Even when I goofed and made liquid soap paste!  LOL!  Seems we have someone with a thin skin.


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## Chrissy Murphy (Jan 5, 2021)

UrsaMinor said:


> I used cold-process and superfatted it at 5%. If it bothers you to answer me, feel free not to. I'm new to this, yes, but you're not repping the camaraderie of this forum which I have so enjoyed at this point by giving me attitude. The best teachers are patient with their students.



I have been making soap on and off for 20 years plus, however I used the same recipe over and over and now I’m exploring new recipes.  My first recipe I used a lot had shortening which is the Same as lard? Pretty close, never a oily bar.  It actually came out beautiful ans waxy.  The other recipes I’m using because where I live nobody wants a bar with animal fat or palm I have trouble shooting due to using fragrance instead of EO.  My point is I have used up to 30% shortening ( sometimes crisco which is lard) never a oily bar.


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## kevenaeakin (Jan 5, 2021)

rdc1978 said:


> Everyone is saying their piece and I am glad because thats what a forum is about.
> 
> However, props to the new soapers for having the courage to ask questions, even if they don't ask them the right way or inadvertently misread tone.
> 
> ...


You're very Brave I haven't even tried it once


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## rdc1978 (Jan 5, 2021)

kevenaeakin said:


> You're very Brave I haven't even tried it once



LOL, there is a fine line between bravery and insanity.  I feel closer to that line every time I try to do this method!


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## SoapHobbyJT (Jan 8, 2021)

UrsaMinor said:


> Hi y'all! I have a question. I've made around 7 batches and I've been using tallow for around 60-90% of my soaps. Most of them were hard to very hard  and everything was great. Then. Duh duh duh. I started using lard and I find that my soaps are really oily when I unmold and cut them. Is it normal? Should I have smaller lye discount? Does the oiliness worsen? I'd like to keep going with lard but I feel a bit sad right now.  Thanks!


I have a question. What do you mean by a lye discount? Did you mean a water discount?

Did you use a soap calculator to make sure the amount of lye was correct? Were you using relatively pure lye or something else? Did you add any additives? 

What lard did you use? Is it pure lard? Or does it have other ingredients in it?

Without these sorts of details, it's really hard to say what could be the cause of the oiliness. I've messed up a batch or two with a little too much olive oil and false trace causing my soap to be improperly emulsified, so it wound up being oily and seeping oil for a good week (And this soap recipe was the exact same one I'd used twice before minus the accidental issue with the excess olive oil when mixing colorants and false trace).


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## lenarenee (Jan 8, 2021)

UrsaMinor said:


> Hi y'all! I have a question. I've made around 7 batches and I've been using tallow for around 60-90% of my soaps. Most of them were hard to very hard  and everything was great. Then. Duh duh duh. I started using lard and I find that my soaps are really oily when I unmold and cut them. Is it normal? Should I have smaller lye discount? Does the oiliness worsen? I'd like to keep going with lard but I feel a bit sad right now.  Thanks!



Soaps high in lard stay fluid much longer than many other oils - tallow included. High lard soaps harden more slowly. Sometimes, depending on the fragrance I use, my 60% lard soaps take a week or more to unmold....and longer before they can be cut.

So, this makes me wonder if what you interpret as "oily" is actually just the naturally slower pace at which a high lard soap hardens up.

Also, a high tallow also does make a very "crisp" and hard bar of soap.


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## cmzaha (Jan 8, 2021)

SoapHobbyJT said:


> I have a question. What do you mean by a lye discount? Did you mean a water discount?
> 
> Did you use a soap calculator to make sure the amount of lye was correct? Were you using relatively pure lye or something else? Did you add any additives?
> 
> ...


All store-bought lard will have additives such as BHT to preserve flavor and deter rancidity. Home rendered will not have additives and the additives do not make a difference in making soap. False trace really does not happen when using OO, it happens when using hard oils such as lard, tallow, palm, soy wax, and butters when soaping too cool. What happens to the hard oils, if the lye solution is room temp or cooler will cool down the oils too fast causing them to start to solidify or thicken sooner than normal. When this happens you just have to get a spoon and stir until your lye solution starts reacting and the oils heat up, you will notice a color change in the batter and it will start thinning out, then just proceed as normal.

Just an FYI, I asked many dumb questions, although no question is a "dumb" question, here and in The Dish forum when I started. I asked because I wanted to learn not to be babied. When the Dish was around some of the gals would tell you to put your "Big Girl Panties On". Actually, when I first started making soap I was not a member of any forum so I learned by the seat of my pants.


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## Melysg25 (Jan 8, 2021)

cmzaha said:


> All store-bought lard will have additives such as BHT to preserve flavor and deter rancidity. Home rendered will not have additives and the additives do not make a difference in making soap. False trace really does not happen when using OO, it happens when using hard oils such as lard, tallow, palm, soy wax, and butters when soaping too cool. What happens to the hard oils, if the lye solution is room temp or cooler will cool down the oils too fast causing them to start to solidify or thicken sooner than normal. When this happens you just have to get a spoon and stir until your lye solution starts reacting and the oils heat up, you will notice a color change in the batter and it will start thinning out, then just proceed as normal.
> 
> Just an FYI, I asked many dumb questions, although no question is a "dumb" question, here and in The Dish forum when I started. I asked because I wanted to learn not to be babied. When the Dish was around some of the gals would tell you to put your "Big Girl Panties On". Actually, when I first started making soap I was not a member of any forum so I learned by the seat of my pants.


Is the dish forum over? I actually remember them I briefly looked it over over 6-7 yrs ago I think.


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## SoapHobbyJT (Jan 8, 2021)

cmzaha said:


> All store-bought lard will have additives such as BHT to preserve flavor and deter rancidity. Home rendered will not have additives and the additives do not make a difference in making soap. False trace really does not happen when using OO, it happens when using hard oils such as lard, tallow, palm, soy wax, and butters when soaping too cool. What happens to the hard oils, if the lye solution is room temp or cooler will cool down the oils too fast causing them to start to solidify or thicken sooner than normal. When this happens you just have to get a spoon and stir until your lye solution starts reacting and the oils heat up, you will notice a color change in the batter and it will start thinning out, then just proceed as normal.



Oh sorry, it looks like I was unclear. I did not mean the OO caused the issue with false trace. I meant that it was a combination of 2 issues that caused me to have some issues with that batch. I used palm kernel oil, no-stir palm oil, and coconut oil as well making up about 58% of my oils and soaped in winter on a much colder day than my previous attempts.

Since I was unaware of false trace at that time, I did not continue mixing once it started to thicken up, and simply started mixing in micas and olive oil and pouring my soap batter into my mold. I figured out the false trace issue the day after I made that batch because I'd wondered about the extra oil and how quickly the batter had thickened up that day. If I recall correctly, the surface temperature of my batter had already dropped below 80F (26.67C) at that point in time.

I had not heard of false trace at that point but thought something was weird with how fast things were cooling and tracing and the slightly grainy texture of my soap. The room temperature was in the 60s (Fahrenheit this is roughly around 15-20C) and my usual attempts were made in a room that was about 10F or ~4C higher.

The olive oil issue, is because of things tracing faster than planned, I went for coloring as quick as possible (yet another mistake) and accidentally poured too much olive oil into my micas. At that point I was just trying to be as fast as possible, and hoping luck could save this batch. Then I oven processed it. 

It came out okay, eventually. But I nearly wrote it off entirely and threw it out.

As for why I thought the lard's source might be part of it:

I've seen store-bought lards that have citric acid in them. Based upon what I've read, I figured that citric acid would typically react with NaOH and form sodium citrate which can use up some of the lye as well as potentially skew some other additives. Unfortunately, I also couldn't say how much citric acid is added to the lard and if there would be a significant enough amount to affect anything.


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## lenarenee (Jan 10, 2021)

Melysg25 said:


> Is the dish forum over? I actually remember them I briefly looked it over over 6-7 yrs ago I think.



Yes, long gone and taken down. A shame; there was tons of excellent information, decades of experience on that site.


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## SPowers (Jan 10, 2021)

My main soap has a high percentage of lard and Ive never had a problem with oiliness.  Once you've posted more information I'm sure it will be fairly obvious what is wrong.


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