# Looking for Dish Soap bar recipe.



## TashaBird (Jun 9, 2020)

I’ve searched here on the forum and I haven’t found any. I’ve found a couple online. But, I’m looking for a recipe for a bar soap that would be good for washing dishes, not a liquid soap.
Thanks in advance!


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## Obsidian (Jun 9, 2020)

100% coconut oil with 0 superfat. Might be a bit rough on skin though, I'd use gloves for hand washing to prevent dryness.


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## Arimara (Jun 9, 2020)

Obsidian said:


> 100% coconut oil with 0 superfat. Might be a bit rough on skin though, I'd use gloves for hand washing to prevent dryness.


Might?  The consequences of using such a soap without glove can be nigh detrimental to our poor skin. We don't want out hands to look this ought, do we?


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## TashaBird (Jun 9, 2020)

Arimara said:


> Might?  The consequences of using such a soap without glove can be nigh detrimental to our poor skin. We don't want out hands to look this ought, do we?


Is there a formula that wont give me chicken hands, but will clean dishes?


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## Anstarx (Jun 9, 2020)

I've seen people using 100% lard soap with 0% SF as laundry and dish soap. It doesn't lather well and takes longer to scrub but I imagine it's more gentle on the hand.
I use a 100% CO liquid soap myself and I don't wear gloves when doing dishes. But than again I wash maybe 5 dishes a week and always apply moisturizers right after.


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## AliOop (Jun 9, 2020)

If you use a scrub brush with your dishes, and keep your hands out of the soapy water, the 100%CO -0%SF will be great. I'm personally not that coordinated, and also hate to wear gloves, so I keep my homemade hand butter nearby.


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## Arimara (Jun 9, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> Is there a formula that wont give me chicken hands, but will clean dishes?


Like everyone mentioned, 100% coconut oil is the trend. You can try 50% each coconut oil and lard with a 0% superfat but I don't know if that would be any more gentle. It'll still clean plenty.


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## AliOop (Jun 9, 2020)

Arimara said:


> Like everyone mentioned, 100% coconut oil is the trend. You can try 50% each coconut oil and lard with a 0% superfat but I don't know if that would be any more gentle. It'll still clean plenty.


@Arimara I've tried 100% lard on my dishes and it didn't remove the food grease, so I stuck with 100% CO. I never thought to try 50-50 lard-CO, so thanks for that suggestion. I have a bunch of tallow so may try 50% tallow with 50% CO as well.


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## Arimara (Jun 10, 2020)

AliOop said:


> @Arimara I've tried 100% lard on my dishes and it didn't remove the food grease, so I stuck with 100% CO. I never thought to try 50-50 lard-CO, so thanks for that suggestion. I have a bunch of tallow so may try 50% tallow with 50% CO as well.


Tallow might be better. It is a little more cleansing than lard. Didn't think about that one.


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## AliOop (Jun 10, 2020)

Arimara said:


> Tallow might be better. It is a little more cleansing than lard. Didn't think about that one.


I like tallow in skin creams but prefer lard in soaps - non-dish soaps, that is. So if I can use up my abundant tallow inventory on dish soap, and save my lard for the hand-body soap, I'm happy!


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## TashaBird (Jun 10, 2020)

AliOop said:


> I like tallow in skin creams but prefer lard in soaps - non-dish soaps, that is. So if I can use up my abundant tallow inventory on dish soap, and save my lard for the hand-body soap, I'm happy!


Thanks. The other recipes I found were CO %80 and Castor Oil %20 With zero SF. Would a %1 SF leave a residue on dishes?
I also have a lot of tallow and use it in most of my skin care. Would a %70CO %20Tallow %10Castor w a %1 SF be a good possibility?


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## AliOop (Jun 10, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> Thanks. The other recipes I found were CO %80 and Castor Oil %20 With zero SF. Would a %1 SF leave a residue on dishes?
> I also have a lot of tallow and use it in most of my skin care. Would a %70CO %20Tallow %10Castor w a %1 SF be a good possibility?


I personally wouldn't see the need for castor oil in a dish soap, but perhaps someone else could chime in as to how that could be beneficial. Normally castor oil is used to stabilize or increase lather, but coconut oil produces plenty of lather on its own.

I like the idea of 80%CO and 20% tallow, or even 50-50, as suggested in another post, above. Using a 1% SF probably wouldn't leave grease on the dishes, and it would give you a little margin of error. Maybe give it a try and see what you think! If you make it as HP, you can try some of it right away (although it won't be long-lasting) while you let the rest of it cure.


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## Arimara (Jun 10, 2020)

A 1% superfat probably won't hurt since its dishes but I do caution not to consider such a soap for laundry.


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## soapmaker (Jun 10, 2020)

Arimara said:


> A 1% superfat probably won't hurt since its dishes but I do caution not to consider such a soap for laundry.


Maybe I shouldn't but I do use a 1% superfat in laundry soap for a little margin just so the soap doesn't go a little over in the lye heavy direction. I don't want to fade colours by having it go that way.


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## artemis (Jun 10, 2020)

soapmaker said:


> Maybe I shouldn't but I do use a 1% superfat in laundry soap for a little margin just so the soap doesn't go a little over in the lye heavy direction. I don't want to fade colours by having it go that way.



My _laundry_ soap has a -3% superfat and I haven't noticed any colors fading.  I think I based the -3 on another discussion on laundry soap in another thread. Obviously, would never use it for for dishes or handle it without gloves.


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## SudsyJurn (Jun 10, 2020)

artemis said:


> My _laundry_ soap has a -3% superfat and I haven't noticed any colors fading.  I think I based the -3 on another discussion on laundry soap in another thread. Obviously, would never use it for for dishes or handle it without gloves.



How do you get a negative lye discount?

Also, would 100% CO with 0% SF work for laundry as well?


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## artemis (Jun 10, 2020)

SudsyJurn said:


> How do you get a negative lye discount?
> 
> Also, would 100% CO with 0% SF work for laundry as well?



To get a -3% superfat I put -3 in the superfat box in the lye calculator.
0% is fine for laundry.


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## SudsyJurn (Jun 10, 2020)

artemis said:


> To get a -3% superfat I put -3 in the superfat box in the lye calculator.
> 0% is fine for laundry.


Oh. That makes so much sense that I feel dumb for asking. Hahahaha. 
Thank you!


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## Susie (Jun 10, 2020)

I would stick with the 0% SF.  Using a -3% simply makes you afraid to use it, and will likely end up a 0% SF by the time it is cured.

Are you planning on grating this for use in dishwater, and are you aware that you aren't going to get a nice lather?


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## artemis (Jun 10, 2020)

Susie said:


> I would stick with the 0% SF.  Using a -3% simply makes you afraid to use it, and will likely end up a 0% SF by the time it is cured.
> 
> Are you planning on grating this for use in dishwater, and are you aware that you aren't going to get a nice lather?



Is this for the OP and her dishwashing plans? Or my reply to a question about laundry soap? 

If directed at me, I grate it up and use it in a clothes washing machine, scooped out with a spoon, so there is no contact with skin.


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## Gaisy59 (Jun 10, 2020)

Just a thought but have you looked at the dishwashing paste recipe from Humblebee and Me or La Fille de la Mer (Ariane)? Super easy to make and i love it as do a lot of other people.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 10, 2020)

I'd say a big reason why you don't see much about dishwashing soap in bar form is that bar soap is cumbersome to use. You either need to grate it into flakes or powder or or scrub a lot on the bar with the dish cloth or scrubbie.

There was some discussion awhile back about making a paste cleanser for dishwashing that some people really like. I think the recipes in the thread were synthetic detergent blends, but that's not to say you couldn't make a true soap in a paste form. Basically you'd still make an all or mostly coconut oil as the others are suggesting but use KOH, rather than NaOH, and use enough liquid, whether water or glycerin, to keep the soap as a soft paste.

If you grate or powder a soap with a -3% superfat, whether for dishwashing or laundry, any excess NaOH in the grated or powdered soap will quickly react with the carbon dioxide in the air to form washing soda. It doesn't stay as NaOH. If you have a -3% excess lye in a bar soap, the excess NaOH will gradually react too, but the process is slower simply because the soap is in a single solid piece so only the outside surface is exposed to air.

_"...would 100% CO with 0% SF work for laundry as well? ..."_

Only if you also use enough washing soda or borax to soften the water and keep the pH sufficiently high enough in the wash water so the soap remains an effective cleanser. Soap is not a good cleanser if it also has to soften the water and adjust the pH. 

This is the downside to the idea of putting soap directly into dish water without also adding a water conditioner (washing soda or borax). Soap for washing dishes is most efficient when it's put directly on the wash cloth or scubby. Not added to the whole sink of water.


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## TashaBird (Jun 10, 2020)

I’m hoping to make a hard bar for dish washing by hand. My thinking behind adding castor oil is to add some lather. But, yeah, I guess not necessary with coconut oil. Here are a few images and where I got the idea. I like the home made, reduced plastic option. 
Several of these have ingredients I don’t understand. But, there are lots of dish soap blocks online using coconut oil, olive oil, castor oil... So, I’m hoping to make my own version of those
.


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## Gaisy59 (Jun 10, 2020)

I get what you are saying. Just something to keep in mind with the paste and i use a jar for my paste so no plastic and also no need to get a dish to sit it in.


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## TashaBird (Jun 10, 2020)

Gaisy59 said:


> I get what you are saying. Just something to keep in mind with the paste and i use a jar for my paste so no plastic and also no need to get a dish to sit it in.


I’ll look up that recipe. Thank you.


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## atiz (Jun 10, 2020)

The second one you attached is a synthetic blend (I couldn't read the first one).

I do like Humblebee&Me's dishwashing paste, which was mentioned earlier. It works fantastic, lots of bubbles and great cleansing, and doesn't even dry my hand that much. She also shared a version that is solid, but again, it is syndet, not true soap. I have not made that one yet, but am planning to.

I have bought one, which, from the ingredients, seems to be a combination bar (soap + syndets). I have not tried it yet; if it is good, it may be something worth experimenting with.


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## TashaBird (Jun 10, 2020)

Gaisy59 said:


> Just a thought but have you looked at the dishwashing paste recipe from Humblebee and Me or La Fille de la Mer (Ariane)? Super easy to make and i love it as do a lot of other people.


The paste looks very interesting! But, I don’t have those ingredients on hand, I do have lots of soaping ingredients, and I’m thinking I would prefer to try a hard bar for dish washing by hand.


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## TashaBird (Jun 10, 2020)

DeeAnna said:


> I'd say a big reason why you don't see much about dishwashing soap in bar form is that bar soap is cumbersome to use. You either need to grate it into flakes or powder or or scrub a lot on the bar with the dish cloth or scrubbie.
> 
> There was some discussion awhile back about making a paste cleanser for dishwashing that some people really like. I think the recipes in the thread were synthetic detergent blends, but that's not to say you couldn't make a true soap in a paste form. Basically you'd still make an all or mostly coconut oil as the others are suggesting but use KOH, rather than NaOH, and use enough liquid, whether water or glycerin, to keep the soap as a soft paste.
> 
> ...


That is super helpful, and a lot to think about. Maybe the dish bar isn’t such a great idea after all. I’ll look into the pastes and other ideas, but I don’t have any of those ingredients on hand. Glad I didn’t just try it without checking. Thank you!


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## DeeAnna (Jun 10, 2020)

_"...My thinking behind adding castor oil is to add some lather. ..."_

Castor, in and of itself, does not create lather, despite what the "cleansing" number in Soapcalc implies. It stabilizes the lather created by other soaps, making the lather last longer.

Coconut oil and similar "cleansing" fats have a high % of lauric and myristic acids. Soap made from these fatty acids dissolves quickly and easily and it can aggressively emulsify fats, regardless of whether the wash water is hot, warm, cold or salty. This is why a mostly- or all-coconut soap is often recommended for laundry and dishwashing and why it is so hard on your hands.

Soaps made from longer fatty acids also emulsify and clean, but these soaps are less soluble in water and do not clean as as aggressively. This milder action is why these soaps are good for cleaning the skin without causing irritation or over-cleaning, but aren't so good for cleaning laundry and dishes. They will perform best in warm or hot water, and not so well in cold or salty water.

Lard soap has long been used in the laundry, but its historical use as a laundry soap is more because other fats were often not available for making soap. It isn't because lard soap is all that amazing for washing grimy clothes. Farm wives made soap with lard because that's all they had.


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## soapmaker (Jun 10, 2020)

artemis said:


> My _laundry_ soap has a -3% superfat and I haven't noticed any colors fading.  I think I based the -3 on another discussion on laundry soap in another thread. Obviously, would never use it for for dishes or handle it without gloves.


I don't understand why then I experienced colour fading. I was blaming it on 0% superfat and then with the unsaponifiables in the coconut oil, I thought it was probably going into the negative and causing colour loss. I switched to 1% superfat and it's now been so long ago I can't remember how that did. I *want* to make laundry soap, just never get there.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 10, 2020)

Unsaponifiables in coconut oil? The saponification value for a given oil is a real-life number that is a measure of everything in the oil that does and doesn't saponify. The unsaponifiable content in a fat is taken into account when the saponfication test is performed and the sap value is calculated for the fat.

Even if it wasn't accounted for in the sap value, the unsaponifiable content in coconut oil isn't all that high -- and is similar to the unsaponifiable content for many other common soap-making fats, including olive, palm, lard, palm kernel, etc. All have no more than 1-2% tops, and often less. Even pomace olive oil is limited per industry standards to a max of 3% unsap. content.  Avocado and shea contain higher unsaponifiable content -- more in the 5-10% range, speaking in general.

Soap is alkaline (high pH). Some colors and some fabrics can tolerate the alkaline nature of soap, and some can't. For delicate fabrics and bright colors, it's probably best to test first if a person wants to use soap to wash these clothes. Or stick to soap for washing jeans and everyday clothes and a syndet cleanser for the nicer stuff. 

People have shared ideas on SMF about making and using soap-based "stain sticks" to pre-treat stains on clothing. Coconut oil soap is often used for these sticks. Some people have learned the hard way that stain sticks aren't always the best thing to use - the soap sometimes causes the fabric color to change or fade. I thnk Carolyn (@cmzaha) has a good story about this, if my memory is working right.


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## soapmaker (Jun 10, 2020)

DeeAnna said:


> Unsaponifiables in coconut oil?


The reason I singled out coconut oil is because I used 100% CO. I have no knowledge of which oils have more unsaponifiables than others, just read that all oils have unsaponifiables. This was in a book I read 15 years ago so who knows whether it's accurate today or not.
Where I noticed fading was on a blue wash cloth, so it would have been cotton. I do use a coconut oil stain stick. I have never had that happen with that. Let's hear it from @cmzaha


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## Arimara (Jun 10, 2020)

soapmaker said:


> Maybe I shouldn't but I do use a 1% superfat in laundry soap for a little margin just so the soap doesn't go a little over in the lye heavy direction. I don't want to fade colours by having it go that way.


I'll take fading clothes over a slow-accumulating oil build up in my clothes. Even when I did use soap for laudry, I didn't have fading. I had to deal with stains that were stubborn and needed enzymes to break those down. laundry detergents, many of them, have those enzymes in their formula.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 10, 2020)

soapmaker said:


> ... just read that all oils have unsaponifiables. This was in a book I read 15 years ago so who knows whether it's accurate today or not.....



I agree that that all fats have some amount of unsaponifiable content -- true statement, that.

What I was trying to explain (and doing so poorly, I see!) is the saponification value accounts for this unsaponifiable content. It is not something people would need to worry about or adjust for. 

I think we're seeing this situation in much the same way, but maybe saying things differently.


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## soapmaker (Jun 11, 2020)

DeeAnna said:


> I agree that that all fats have some amount of unsaponifiable content -- true statement, that.
> 
> What I was trying to explain (and doing so poorly, I see!) is the saponification value accounts for this unsaponifiable content. It is not something people would need to worry about or adjust for.
> 
> I think we're seeing this situation in much the same way, but maybe saying things differently.


No, I'm quite sure it's me explaining poorly.  I understood your explanation but 15 years ago I didn't know that the sap value accounted for the unsaponifiables. Hence I thought it might be excess lye instead of the alkalinity. I appreciate your knowledge.


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## Susie (Jun 11, 2020)

artemis said:


> Is this for the OP and her dishwashing plans? Or my reply to a question about laundry soap?
> 
> If directed at me, I grate it up and use it in a clothes washing machine, scooped out with a spoon, so there is no contact with skin.



It's for the OP, and in reply to the thread in general.  Lye heavy soap (within reason, I tested up to -15% trying to prove DeeAnna wrong, LOL) will cure out to a non-lye-heavy state by the end of cure.  So no special precautions are needed.  

I have hard water now, so I had to revert back to commercial laundry soap to avoid the "greys" happening to my former "whites".  No amount of EDTA helped.  Nor did bleach.  And I no longer use liquid soap paste for general cleaning, either.  Such a shame.


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## djk17 (Jun 12, 2020)

I recently made a dish bar with 95% CO and 5% castor.
I like it and don’t find it especially drying on my hands. I normally use a dish brush. 
Caveat: almost everything goes into the dishwasher so I usually only use it for the occasional pot or colander and my cutting board, so, daily use but it’s not like I’m washing everything for each meal.


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## Sharyn (Jun 12, 2020)

djk17 said:


> I recently made a dish bar with 95% CO and 5% castor.
> I like it and don’t find it especially drying on my hands. I normally use a dish brush.
> Caveat: almost everything goes into the dishwasher so I usually only use it for the occasional pot or colander and my cutting board, so, daily use but it’s not like I’m washing everything for each meal.


I am going to try your recipe with the castor oil, I make 100% coconut oil bars and I put them into an organza gift bag and use the bar whilst still in the bag,  and I hang it on the tap when I am finished. I also do that with my shampoo bars easier to use and the soap dries cleaner. Thank you for sharing.


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## AliOop (Jun 12, 2020)

Castor is normally used to stabilize lather for low-lather soaps. 100% CO is a high-lather, grease-fighting soap that cleans dishes very well on its own. Can anyone explain what helpful properties castor would add to a dish soap, as opposed to a soap being used on the face or body?


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## TashaBird (Jun 12, 2020)

Sharyn said:


> I am going to try your recipe with the castor oil, I make 100% coconut oil bars and I put them into an organza gift bag and use the bar whilst still in the bag,  and I hang it on the tap when I am finished. I also do that with my shampoo bars easier to use and the soap dries cleaner. Thank you for sharing.


That’s similar to the recipe I found online that I’m thinking about making. I’m glad to heat it’s working well for you. I wash most stuff by hand, so it might not work out for me. But, if I used that kind of recipe, and I didn’t like it, couldn’t I repurpose it for laundry?


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## Sharyn (Jun 27, 2020)

TashaBird said:


> That’s similar to the recipe I found online that I’m thinking about making. I’m glad to heat it’s working well for you. I wash most stuff by hand, so it might not work out for me. But, if I used that kind of recipe, and I didn’t like it, couldn’t I repurpose it for laundry?


I keep all my bits and pieces of soap and grate them for the laundry powder, or laundry liquid, any I don't like Iuse for the laundry


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