# The "One Recipe" Theory - Question



## Wendy90292 (May 3, 2020)

I've made about 25 batches over 2 years.  I've collected recipes from various books and websites, some by AnnMarie.  There are a few I like well enough, although many of them seem to have one problem or another:  they distort the mica colors when added; they dissolve too quickly (less than 2 weeks) in the shower; they last for years; they don't hold the scent for very much past the curing weeks, etc.)  Finally, I'm interested in advancing my artistic pouring skills, so I've been watching a lot of videos. It seems to me that most of you (and people with videos) have ONE recipe you love and make over and over, and then spend your focus on making a pretty pour.  Is that true?  Do most of you experienced soapers have one favorite recipe and you just switch it up with colors and fragrances?

I've really got no interest in using lye calculators.  I spent far too much money already on extremely rare oils like "Left-handed Emus Who Prefer Dom Perignon Oil" and "Seeds of a Plant You've Never Heard Of - that grows only at the top of Mt. Everest and has to be picked by Sherpas on a Thursday Oil".  You wouldn't believe how much time I spent on a recent trip to London trying to find "woad"!!!  (Or in an Indian market in Chicago trying to find "Alkanet" - which doesn't translate in Gujarati OR Hindi, apparently!)

Summary: Do most of you have just one recipe you do most of the time?


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## Obsidian (May 3, 2020)

yes, I have one main recipe that I make the most. I do tweak it on occasion, depending on who its for. Hubbys version has a tad bit more coconut while mine has less coconut.

not sure what using a lye calculator has to do with buying expensive oils. Two of the most popular calculators are free and its always a good idea to run recipes through a calc in case of typos or just plain bad recipes.


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## shermluge (May 3, 2020)

From the soaps I've made, no. BUT I've been making different recipes for soap with different purposes. Even when I find one that works, I tend to tweak it (always using a lye calculator). Then I might continue to use that recipe for one particular style/type. Even then I tend to at least try to improve it. I'ts all just preference. I love working over what I create.


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## TheGecko (May 3, 2020)

Yes.  Kind of, sort of.  I have two main recipes...one for Regular Soap and one for Goat Milk Soap; I don’t use colorants in my GMS.  Then I have some ‘specialty’ soaps; ‘Trades’ soap, a Salt Soap and a Kidz Soap.  I’m still working on a ‘luxury’ soap...not so much recipe, but the design.


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## dibbles (May 3, 2020)

My lard recipe stays pretty much the same, I just change up the soft oils. I do vary liquids and additives. I am still trying to find a palm free, vegan recipe that I like and is slow tracing. Like Obsidian, I am really confused by your statement about not using a lye calculator. You can enter whatever oils you want to create a recipe. It's really not difficult to learn to use one, and it is something everyone should know how to do, IMHO.


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## artemis (May 3, 2020)

I have about 4, each for a different person's taste.

One reason to learn a lye calculator is BECAUSE you have all those special oils. With a lye calculator, you can easily and *safely* sub in your fancy oils in place of others in an existing recipe and then see what the characteristics of the soap will be.


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## cerelife (May 4, 2020)

I have 2 main recipes that I use (one lard and one vegan) in most of my soaps. Then I have specialty recipes like salt bars, castile, etc. None of my recipes require crazy, hard-to-find ingredients. Just basic stuff. You can literally buy every single ingredient in my recipes from WSP, Brambleberry, Soaper's Choice - you get my drift. Some of them I just get at the grocery store or Wal-mart/Sam's Club.
As for your micas morphing and your scent fading, that may have more to do with the micas and scent than the recipe you used.
You mentioned that you had recipes that you "liked well enough", but for me to be satisfied I needed to *LOVE* my recipes. And using a lye calculator was absolutely vital in creating those recipes!! It took me almost 3 years of playing around with oils and percentages to get my recipes exactly as I wanted them to create a consistently great batch of soap that fit my personal ideal. At that point I could work on my 'artistic skills' with colors and designs because I knew how my recipe behaved and had the knowledge to plan ahead for fast-moving or discoloring fragrances as well as using additives like GM/honey/eggs/etc. to change things up a bit.
Summary: Using a* lye calculator *is essential in creating a great soap recipe; it has nothing to do with using expensive and unusual ingredients. No matter how artistic your soap may be - if your recipe is "just OK" - why even bother?


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## Wendy90292 (May 4, 2020)

Obsidian said:


> *yes, I have one main recipe that I make the most. I do tweak it on occasion, depending on who its for. Hubbys version has a tad bit more coconut while mine has less coconut.
> 
> not sure what using a lye calculator has to do with buying expensive oils. Two of the most popular calculators are free and its always a good idea to run recipes through a calc in case of typos or just plain bad recipes.*


Well, what I mean is that it is obviously NOT the oils that are affecting my different outcomes with different recipes, I don't think. And it's not the lye amounts, I don't think, although maybe I need to learn more about the calculators.  Thanks for your answer.



dibbles said:


> My lard recipe stays pretty much the same, I just change up the soft oils. I do vary liquids and additives. I am still trying to find a palm free, vegan recipe that I like and is slow tracing. Like Obsidian, I am really confused by your statement about not using a lye calculator. You can enter whatever oils you want to create a recipe. It's really not difficult to learn to use one, and it is something everyone should know how to do, IMHO.


Well, I was/am trying to use "proven" recipes, but Ann Marie's have all these super exotic oils in them; and so do some of the others.  I am not really clear on why I would need to use a lye calculator if I am working from a recipe. When I'm making food, I never try to figure out if the recipe is "good", I just make it and then taste it and then I know.



cerelife said:


> I have 2 main recipes that I use (one lard and one vegan) in most of my soaps. Then I have specialty recipes like salt bars, castile, etc. None of my recipes require crazy, hard-to-find ingredients. Just basic stuff. You can literally buy every single ingredient in my recipes from WSP, Brambleberry, Soaper's Choice - you get my drift. Some of them I just get at the grocery store or Wal-mart/Sam's Club.
> As for your micas morphing and your scent fading, that may have more to do with the micas and scent than the recipe you used.
> You mentioned that you had recipes that you "liked well enough", but for me to be satisfied I needed to *LOVE* my recipes. And using a lye calculator was absolutely vital in creating those recipes!! It took me almost 3 years of playing around with oils and percentages to get my recipes exactly as I wanted them to create a consistently great batch of soap that fit my personal ideal. At that point I could work on my 'artistic skills' with colors and designs because I knew how my recipe behaved and had the knowledge to plan ahead for fast-moving or discoloring fragrances as well as using additives like GM/honey/eggs/etc. to change things up a bit.
> Summary: Using a lye calculator is essential in creating a great soap recipe; it has nothing to do with using expensive and unusual ingredients. No matter how artistic your soap may be - if your recipe is "just OK" - why even bother?


THIS makes perfect sense to me, Cerelife. I get it now.  I hadn't thought about using the lye calculator to CHANGE recipes that other people had apparently already perfected/published. That is quite logical.  Thank you for this invaluable perspective.



TheGecko said:


> Yes.  Kind of, sort of.  I have two main recipes...one for Regular Soap and one for Goat Milk Soap; I don’t use colorants in my GMS.  Then I have some ‘specialty’ soaps; ‘Trades’ soap, a Salt Soap and a Kidz Soap.  I’m still working on a ‘luxury’ soap...not so much recipe, but the design.


So @TheGecko, are you a professional soap maker or a hobbyist?


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## moodymama (May 4, 2020)

You can't just trust everyone recipes online.  I agree with others about using the lye calc. My recipes have become my own and I can change oils in and out as I like to accommodate how I want the end soap to be. Each oil require a different amount of lye. It seems to me your problems (soap not lasing long) outside of fragrance fade can be fixed by knowing how to use a calc.

Also alkanet and woad easily found on amazon and some other soap suppliers sites. Be aware tho that natural colorants don't hold color like micas do. Also micas need to be cp soap stable or the color won't hold either.


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## rdc1978 (May 4, 2020)

Wendy90292 said:


> I've made about 25 batches over 2 years.  I've collected recipes from various books and websites, some by AnnMarie.  There are a few I like well enough, although many of them seem to have one problem or another:  they distort the mica colors when added; they dissolve too quickly (less than 2 weeks) in the shower; they last for years; they don't hold the scent for very much past the curing weeks, etc.)  Finally, I'm interested in advancing my artistic pouring skills, so I've been watching a lot of videos. *It seems to me that most of you (and people with videos) have ONE recipe you love and make over and over, and then spend your focus on making a pretty pour.  Is that true? * Do most of you experienced soapers have one favorite recipe and you just switch it up with colors and fragrances?
> 
> I've really got no interest in using lye calculators.  I spent far too much money already on extremely rare oils like "Left-handed Emus Who Prefer Dom Perignon Oil" and "Seeds of a Plant You've Never Heard Of - that grows only at the top of Mt. Everest and has to be picked by Sherpas on a Thursday Oil".  You wouldn't believe how much time I spent on a recent trip to London trying to find "woad"!!!  (Or in an Indian market in Chicago trying to find "Alkanet" - which doesn't translate in Gujarati OR Hindi, apparently!)
> 
> *Summary: Do most of you have just one recipe you do most of the time? *



LOL, I'm dying at the names of the oils. Some of it feels very, very exotic!

I think everyone has good points about the soap calculators, but I think the coolest thing for you would be that you could create a recipe to use these exotic oils!  

I'd love to buy a soap with the oil of a left handed emu who only drank Dom Perignon.  He sounds like a fancy bird! 

And the cool thing about soap calc is that it would tell you the properties of your emu soap!  

I don't know what emu oil brings to a soap, but whatever it is, if the emu in question only drank Dom, that soap is going to be fantastic!

I'm personally fine with okay soap, but that's just me and I'm pretty new to soaping.  I'm just happy when it doesn't all end in disaster and mottled colors!!


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## Arimara (May 4, 2020)

moodymama said:


> You can't just trust everyone recipes online.  I agree with others about using the lye calc. My recipes have become my own and I can change oils in and out as I like to accommodate how I want the end soap to be. Each oil require a different amount of lye. It seems to me your problems (soap not lasing long) outside of fragrance fade can be fixed by knowing how to use a calc.
> 
> Also alkanet and woad easily found on amazon and some other soap suppliers sites. Be aware tho that natural colorants don't hold color like micas do. Also micas need to be cp soap stable or the color won't hold either.


Building, there are plenty of soapmakers who sell that have made it a point to tell people they should use a lye calculator. As far as Ann Marie is concerned, however, you should take her advice with a salt lick. She has some decent advise for beginners but she also wants to sell things to you. If you had at least learned oil properties of each the most used oils for soapmaking, you probably would have saved some money on the more expensive oils, many of those are best used as body oil or in a whipped butter. Shea, Cocoa, and Mango butters are a few exceptions.


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## shunt2011 (May 4, 2020)

I agree with much of what has been said above.  I have 3-4 recipes two I use most frequently.   You do need to learn how to use a lye calculator and take the time to learn the properties of the oils.  You don't need expensive oils.  Awesome soap can be made with a few oils that will last.   

Never trust a recipe in print.  Always run it through a calculator.  Errors can be made.  I also have never used a recipe from a suppliers site.  As stated, they are out to sell ingredients as a business and don't have your best interest in mind many times.

If you go through the 10 or so pages here you'll find that many of us have shared our recipes.  I have been selling for 8-9 years now.   But, it's taken a lot of time and testing to get to where I am today.   But again, I use basic oils.  I have 1 vegan and my favorite with lard.   The others are speciality soaps like Salt bars, etc...


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## atiz (May 4, 2020)

I'm not selling -- but yes, you should use a lye calculator.
When I started making soap I got all my ingredients in the grocery store and walmart. You really don't need exotic oils to make a decent bar of soap. Just because a recipe is published, it doesn't mean it's "perfect"; everyone's skin is different, and people also have different preferences even when it comes to little things. (E.g., I can't stand not rectangle-shaped soap... or any slime... and don't like overly vivid colors. I can use soap on my face and do not find it drying. Etc. etc., a lot of people here would disagree with all of these, but that's the fun part, you can make a soap that YOU like!)


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## SoapSisters (May 4, 2020)

I've been soaping for a little over a year, and one of the most enjoyable parts is playing around with my recipes. I'm always thinking to myself . . . "Hmm, that soap with 10% shea butter is good. Would 20% feel substantially better/different?" Or: "Which liquid oils do I like best? Olive? Sunflower? Grapeseed? Almond?" Or: "X% of coconut oil in soap makes my skin feel dry. Would 5% less make a difference?" You get the point. 

It gives you so much control over your soap to be able to experiment in that way. And you end up with a soap that works for you and uses the ingredients you can afford, have access to and enjoy working with.


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## Anstarx (May 4, 2020)

I typically have a template for each type of soap I'm making: face bar, shower bar for winter, shower bar for summer, swirls, salt bars, etc. I usually will swap around one ot two oils (usually the soft oils like swtiching olive to rice bran+avocado) according to the theme but generally the percentages stay the same. Since I'm still rather new, being less than a year into soap making, it also really helped me understanding what different oils brought to the table, like this one with olive didn't lather much but swapped for sunflower and almond then it really lathered, etc.


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## artemis (May 4, 2020)

Regarding working from a "perfected" recipe:

No recipe is perfect for everyone. If one of the Soap Queen recipes is "well enough," by using a calculator, you can make it perfect for you. Changing the oil percentages, adding in one of the specialty oils, or changing the superfat, can make a big difference.

Also, I make very small batches so being able to resize even a trusted recipe is important.


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## Adobehead (May 4, 2020)

I worked out my formula using a lye calc over 20 years ago.  I looked for how much of each property the formula offered, such as conditioning bar, bubbles, creamy lather, etc. and came to ratios that sounded good to me.  I have stayed with that formula for the whole 20+ years!  If I want goat's milk, I sub that for the water, if I want salt, I throw some in.  This may not be the best, but it is what I have done.  In the place I live, there is a following of people who literally stand in line to get this soap at monthly markets, so I must be doing at least partly right.  

Now I am going through a Renaissance and changing up my formula, giving up palm and for the first time, using the animal fats, smaller molds for experimentation.  It will be months before all these new soaps are fully cured and stacked by the sinks and bathtub and well used enough that I will truly come to conclusions about them.  What fun.

The point being, you will know your formulas inside and out, taking a recipe off the shelf doesn't give you the depth of experience required to make all this your own.


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## Savonette (May 4, 2020)

Love those oils!  I know what you mean about the calculators-it’s as if you’re taking on the role of mad scientist and possibly coming up with a monster instead of building a tried and true masterpiece. The calculator just gives the opportunity to pick apart a formula and tweak it to your liking SAFELY. I’ve been looking for my perfect formula for 5 years. And every “tweaked” calculation ends up with the same fats and oils. I just started looking at Soap Makers Friend calculator here and found the indicator for “longevity “.  I also just found the info about high lard content making a great swirling soap. So maybe just keep reading, tweaking, and learning how to substitute safely through your calculator and make sure your freebie friends know the cost of the bar is an unfettered critique. Happy Soaping!


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## DeeAnna (May 4, 2020)

Using someone else's recipe is like using a box mix to make a cake. That's not nearly as interesting to me as designing a recipe from scratch and tweaking it to suit my personal preferences.

Even if you are perfectly okay using someone else's recipe, what happens if you run out of oil X and wonder if you could make up the difference with oil Y? If you know how to use a soap recipe calc, you can make this substitution easily and safely. 

Or if you want to make a batch that is a little larger or smaller to exactly fit a new mold? Or if you want to use less or more water in a batch to reduce overheating and cracking or to make the soap easier to unmold? A calc is very handy for making these adjustments.


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## Quilter99755 (May 4, 2020)

I started soaping with someone else's recipe. Luckily it was a tried and true website so I didn't have any disasters.  I thought I had died and gone to heaven with my first batches of soap. They were so much better than what I was using from any store. Over time I realized that I still had days with flakey skin or itching, I also wanted a soap that lasted longer, especially for my kids in Hawaii. So in searching I found SMF and learned so much. Listening to others here and spending a lot of time with the basics, I have started to venture out of my old recipe into new ones that I am creating.  I realized that there are people who hate olive oil, or lard or can't stand the smell of one oil over another, so I am trying new oils to find what I like and what my family like by using the soap calc. The article from @DeeAnna on what the soap calc numbers mean was my biggest step in right direction.  And if I run out of one oil, I can find a substitute for it through the calculator.  I think I'm nearer now to a few tried and true recipes...one for me, one for hubby (he hates bubbles and I love them), one for family here and another for my Hawaii family.  With this site and the soap calc I wouldn't be even halfway there. 

There are a lot of people experimenting with various oils on this site, along with numerous additives. I haven't tried them all but have soaked up the knowledge and may try them in the future...once I get my recipes down to basics. Hopefully I can find the same oils in different proportions so that I don't have the problem of oils going bad because I don't use them often enough. But I am closer to that goal by all of the knowledge and help I've received here.


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## Megan (May 4, 2020)

Wendy90292 said:


> Well, what I mean is that it is obviously NOT the oils that are affecting my different outcomes with different recipes, I don't think. And it's not the lye amounts, I don't think, although maybe I need to learn more about the calculators. Thanks for your answer.


I am so confused by this... these are literally the two things that do affect outcome, so I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

I wouldn't call myself "experienced" I've only been doing this a couple years as well...maybe 200 batches (just guesstimating)
I do have one main recipe, not that I don't experiment, but I did a lot of work at the beginning to get a recipe that I loved and I've pretty much stuck with it for a year and a half. In total, I have three recipes that I make in larger quantities than my experimental test batches and these are for completely different soaps (salt bar, and castille). My main everyday (main recipe) soap only changes in additives and designs depending on what I'm going for.


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## Wendy90292 (May 4, 2020)

moodymama said:


> You can't just trust everyone recipes online.  I agree with others about using the lye calc. My recipes have become my own and I can change oils in and out as I like to accommodate how I want the end soap to be. Each oil require a different amount of lye. It seems to me your problems (soap not lasing long) outside of fragrance fade can be fixed by knowing how to use a calc.
> 
> Also alkanet and woad easily found on amazon and some other soap suppliers sites. Be aware tho that natural colorants don't hold color like micas do. Also micas need to be cp soap stable or the color won't hold either.



Thanks SO much, MoodyMama!



rdc1978 said:


> LOL, I'm dying at the names of the oils. Some of it feels very, very exotic!
> 
> I think everyone has good points about the soap calculators, but I think the coolest thing for you would be that you could create a recipe to use these exotic oils!
> 
> ...



Thanks for "getting it", RDC1978. Ha!  I'll tell my pet emus (before I turn them into oil!) that you're into them.  : )



atiz said:


> I'm not selling -- but yes, you should use a lye calculator.
> When I started making soap I got all my ingredients in the grocery store and walmart. You really don't need exotic oils to make a decent bar of soap. Just because a recipe is published, it doesn't mean it's "perfect"; everyone's skin is different, and people also have different preferences even when it comes to little things. (E.g., I can't stand not rectangle-shaped soap... or any slime... and don't like overly vivid colors. I can use soap on my face and do not find it drying. Etc. etc., a lot of people here would disagree with all of these, but that's the fun part, you can make a soap that YOU like!)


Thanks Atiz



Anstarx said:


> I typically have a template for each type of soap I'm making: face bar, shower bar for winter, shower bar for summer, swirls, salt bars, etc. I usually will swap around one ot two oils (usually the soft oils like swtiching olive to rice bran+avocado) according to the theme but generally the percentages stay the same. Since I'm still rather new, being less than a year into soap making, it also really helped me understanding what different oils brought to the table, like this one with olive didn't lather much but swapped for sunflower and almond then it really lathered, etc.


Oh, that's SO interesting, Anstarx! I'm a very serious home baker with several amateur certificates, many tweaked recipes and a meticulous note-taking system for my pastries.  I really didn't realize the types of soap varied so much, even though I read a few documents about what different oils do.  I love the idea of a template for different intentions - great idea I will emulate...even without emus!



Adobehead said:


> I worked out my formula using a lye calc over 20 years ago.  I looked for how much of each property the formula offered, such as conditioning bar, bubbles, creamy lather, etc. and came to ratios that sounded good to me.  I have stayed with that formula for the whole 20+ years!  If I want goat's milk, I sub that for the water, if I want salt, I throw some in.  This may not be the best, but it is what I have done.  In the place I live, there is a following of people who literally stand in line to get this soap at monthly markets, so I must be doing at least partly right.
> 
> Now I am going through a Renaissance and changing up my formula, giving up palm and for the first time, using the animal fats, smaller molds for experimentation.  It will be months before all these new soaps are fully cured and stacked by the sinks and bathtub and well used enough that I will truly come to conclusions about them.  What fun.
> 
> The point being, you will know your formulas inside and out, taking a recipe off the shelf doesn't give you the depth of experience required to make all this your own.


Wise, Adobehead. Thanks.



Savonette said:


> Love those oils!  I know what you mean about the calculators-it’s as if you’re taking on the role of mad scientist and possibly coming up with a monster instead of building a tried and true masterpiece. The calculator just gives the opportunity to pick apart a formula and tweak it to your liking SAFELY. I’ve been looking for my perfect formula for 5 years. And every “tweaked” calculation ends up with the same fats and oils. I just started looking at Soap Makers Friend calculator here and found the indicator for “longevity “.  I also just found the info about high lard content making a great swirling soap. So maybe just keep reading, tweaking, and learning how to substitute safely through your calculator and make sure your freebie friends know the cost of the bar is an unfettered critique. Happy Soaping!


Thank you Savonette. (Great name choice, BTW!)  I have had three friends and my mom say, "I don't want to use your soap" or "Please don't give me anymore."  This is really sad. All of my soaps "work", but the leeching of colors messed up 2 testers and the other 2 basically said it made them itch. I can't imagine how an all-natural bar, no mica, responsibly harvested palm, quality olive and shea made them itch, but OK.  So I need new testers, I guess! Thanks for your input.  A lot!



Quilter99755 said:


> I started soaping with someone else's recipe. Luckily it was a tried and true website so I didn't have any disasters.  I thought I had died and gone to heaven with my first batches of soap. They were so much better than what I was using from any store. Over time I realized that I still had days with flakey skin or itching, I also wanted a soap that lasted longer, especially for my kids in Hawaii. So in searching I found SMF and learned so much. Listening to others here and spending a lot of time with the basics, I have started to venture out of my old recipe into new ones that I am creating.  I realized that there are people who hate olive oil, or lard or can't stand the smell of one oil over another, so I am trying new oils to find what I like and what my family like by using the soap calc. The article from @DeeAnna on what the soap calc numbers mean was my biggest step in right direction.  And if I run out of one oil, I can find a substitute for it through the calculator.  I think I'm nearer now to a few tried and true recipes...one for me, one for hubby (he hates bubbles and I love them), one for family here and another for my Hawaii family.  With this site and the soap calc I wouldn't be even halfway there.
> 
> There are a lot of people experimenting with various oils on this site, along with numerous additives. I haven't tried them all but have soaked up the knowledge and may try them in the future...once I get my recipes down to basics. Hopefully I can find the same oils in different proportions so that I don't have the problem of oils going bad because I don't use them often enough. But I am closer to that goal by all of the knowledge and help I've received here.



Hi Quilter - this is truly sage advice and much appreciated.  The answers people have given to this post have really changed my mind about the way I was doing it, but especially yours because twice I did NOT have enough of an oil to complete a recipe so I had to abandon it; and a few times I've found that the amount made was far too little for the mold I wanted to put it in, or an extreme overflow, but not known how to adjust. THANK YOU very much. Now I understand WHY I want to learn to use a soap calculator.


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## atiz (May 4, 2020)

Wendy90292 said:


> I can't imagine how an all-natural bar, no mica, responsibly harvested palm, quality olive and shea made them itch, but OK.  So I need new testers, I guess! Thanks for your input.  A lot!



Oh soap can totally make you itch. Some people's skin are really sensitive so they cannot use lye-based soap at all. And even if you can, it matters a whole lot what kind of oils and what percentage you have of them. That's why it's a good idea to try out many recipes, and learn how to use the lye calculator -- so that you can formulate a soap that you (and your friends!) like.


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## Wendy90292 (May 4, 2020)

DeeAnna said:


> Using someone else's recipe is like using a box mix to make a cake. That's not nearly as interesting to me as designing a recipe from scratch and tweaking it to suit my personal preferences.
> 
> Even if you are perfectly okay using someone else's recipe, what happens if you run out of oil X and wonder if you could make up the difference with oil Y? If you know how to use a soap recipe calc, you can make this substitution easily and safely.
> 
> Or if you want to make a batch that is a little larger or smaller to exactly fit a new mold? Or if you want to use less or more water in a batch to reduce overheating and cracking or to make the soap easier to unmold? A calc is very handy for making these adjustments.


Brilliant! I get it now. Thanks.


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## Arimara (May 4, 2020)

atiz said:


> Oh soap can totally make you itch. Some people's skin are really sensitive so they cannot use lye-based soap at all. And even if you can, it matters a whole lot what kind of oils and what percentage you have of them. That's why it's a good idea to try out many recipes, and learn how to use the lye calculator -- so that you can formulate a soap that you (and your friends!) like.


I'm dropping a brand name- Zum Bars. I hate their soaps as every last one that I have tried made me itch so bad and they were touted as a natural brand. This was before I learned how to make soap for myself.


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## Wendy90292 (May 4, 2020)

*Thanks for your advice, everyone! I get it now.  xoxoxo*


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## rdc1978 (May 5, 2020)

Wendy90292 said:


> *Thanks for your advice, everyone! I get it now.  xoxoxo*



This is going to feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but if you decide to use soapcalc, just remember that at the bottom right you have to click "calculate recipe" and then you have to click the button below it that says "view/print recipe" to see the printout (you can do all this on your phone/computer)

It's probably intuitive, but it was not at all intuitive for me and I spent at least half an hour being frustrated before I figured it out.

Anyways, good luck!

And don't be put out by people being weird about your soap, some people just aren't about that soap life!   But there is a market for everything .... true story, there was a woman on Etsy selling breast milk soap.....so people have all different sorts of preferences and things they like.

I mean, if someone is paying $9 for breast milk soap there is definitely a market and an audience for whatever amazing soap creation you make!

ETA - I was just thinking, how long are you curing your bars?  

Sometimes ive gotten impatient and used a soap way before it cured and it was a little irritating and drying.  I just thought it could be a possibility.


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## cmzaha (May 5, 2020)

rdc1978 said:


> And don't be put out by people being weird about your soap, some people just aren't about that soap life!   But there is a market for everything .... true story, there was a woman on Etsy selling breast milk soap.....so people have all different sorts of preferences and things they like.
> 
> I mean, if someone is paying $9 for breast milk soap there is definitely a market and an audience for whatever amazing soap creation you make!
> 
> ...


And if that lady was selling breast milk soap in the US she was selling an illegal soap. You cannot sell breast milk soap here. 

As for the itching, it may also be too much coconut oil making a bar of soap that is just to cleansing leaving the skin dry and itchy for many people. Also as mentioned above cure time makes a difference. This is why it is necessary to be able to formulate a recipe with a calculator or manually and learning about the different fatty acid profiles of the different fats and what they can lend to soap.


----------



## Rick Jarvis (May 5, 2020)

So maybe a recipe tweaker could explain something for me. So you change ingredient a to ingredient b or change the percent of c, or add ingredient d to make a more optimum soap. As a new guy maybe I am missing something but if one waits 4-6 weeks or even longer to evaluate the results of the tweak, what do you do in the meantime. Use your old recipe and in 6 weeks decide if the changes are an improvement? It seems the time from idea to testing is awfully long and then the testing seems like it is and has remained subjective. It seems that most likely outcomes include you like it more, less, or can't tell the difference. Then who knows how your end users feel as everyone has different perceptions and needs. 

Now to be candid up until I started making soap I thought there were two kinds Irish Spring and for emergencies there was Lava Soap. So some of the soap nuances might be lost on me.

But I will cop to the one recipe to "make a pretty pour" mindset. As a former glass artist I love this medium and pushing the envelope to make an artistic looking soap. 

So clearly the soapiverse is large enough for all to express themselves as they are inclined. It can be the soapiest soap with unicorn oil and passenger pigeon feather oil or it can be oo, co, and palm. You can focus on the performance or the looks or some combo of both. 

All I know is I like my soap better than my old standards. It's a treat to use. But how it looks is an absolute delight when it comes out right. Just my two cents and no one should pay me any mind because I am just a new guy.


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## Adobehead (May 5, 2020)

Rick Jarvis said:


> So maybe a recipe tweaker could explain something for me. So you change ingredient a to ingredient b or change the percent of c, or add ingredient d to make a more optimum soap. As a new guy maybe I am missing something but if one waits 4-6 weeks or even longer to evaluate the results of the tweak, what do you do in the meantime. Use your old recipe and in 6 weeks decide if the changes are an improvement? It seems the time from idea to testing is awfully long and then the testing seems like it is and has remained subjective. It seems that most likely outcomes include you like it more, less, or can't tell the difference. Then who knows how your end users feel as everyone has different perceptions and needs.
> 
> Now to be candid up until I started making soap I thought there were two kinds Irish Spring and for emergencies there was Lava Soap. So some of the soap nuances might be lost on me.
> 
> ...



Exactly and well said!


----------



## Kari Howie (May 5, 2020)

Wendy90292 said:


> I've made about 25 batches over 2 years.  I've collected recipes from various books and websites, some by AnnMarie.  There are a few I like well enough, although many of them seem to have one problem or another:  they distort the mica colors when added; they dissolve too quickly (less than 2 weeks) in the shower; they last for years; they don't hold the scent for very much past the curing weeks, etc.)  Finally, I'm interested in advancing my artistic pouring skills, so I've been watching a lot of videos. *It seems to me that most of you (and people with videos) have ONE recipe you love and make over and over, and then spend your focus on making a pretty pour.  Is that true? * Do most of you experienced soapers have one favorite recipe and you just switch it up with colors and fragrances?
> 
> I've really got no interest in using lye calculators.  I spent far too much money already on extremely rare oils like "Left-handed Emus Who Prefer Dom Perignon Oil" and "Seeds of a Plant You've Never Heard Of - that grows only at the top of Mt. Everest and has to be picked by Sherpas on a Thursday Oil".  You wouldn't believe how much time I spent on a recent trip to London trying to find "woad"!!!  (Or in an Indian market in Chicago trying to find "Alkanet" - which doesn't translate in Gujarati OR Hindi, apparently!)
> 
> *Summary: Do most of you have just one recipe you do most of the time? *


lye calculator are FREE Online tools to use in order to formulate recipes and ensure your soap is safe to use. One of the reasons your soap may be so soft and not last longer than 2 weeks is that you are using too much oil for the amount of lye you are using. A lye calculator will tell you the exact amount of lye to use for the types of oils you are using. The one many of us use is Soap Calc.





						SoapCalc
					

Free versatile lye calculator for home soap making




					soapcalc.net


----------



## Susie (May 5, 2020)

@Wendy90292 :  OK, not addressing the lye calculator issue since you get it.  

I have 4-5 standard recipes for soap depending on who is going to be using it and their type of skin.

I will say to treat your soap making like your baking.  Write exactly how each recipe acted and why you did or did not like it on the back of the recipe (or in a file alongside the recipe if you keep this stuff on a computer).  Research the properties of the oils, don't just rely on the qualities of the oils as presented by the lye calculators.  Ask your mother and friends what was wrong with the soap they got.  Tell them you need to know because you can't fix what you don't understand is wrong.

Next, take the soap you and everyone else likes the most, figure out why you liked it, and why you didn't, then play with the lye calculator until you think a new recipe will work better.  Then come run it by us.  We'll be honest with you.  And I promise that 90% of us use ingredients you can buy at the grocery store.  

I would start by paying more attention to how a soap functions with your eyes closed.  Once you get a good basic recipe, you can then add colors because you need to understand how colorants function with YOUR recipe.

@Rick Jarvis You make tweak 2 in the meantime.  It is a long wait between batches.  But each tweak teaches you vital information.  Also, test your soap once a week.  Then you will figure out why you need to cure.  

Keep good records.  They are invaluable.


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## SPowers (May 5, 2020)

I joined this forum only a few days ago and all I can say is I'm so happy I did!  I bought quite a lot of supplies last fall with the intent of making soap for Christmas gifts - I've yet to make my first bar - and I'm glad I did.  I'd only read about the lye calculator which looked so foreign and complicated to me and with so much information I truly have been overwhelmed.  But after reading so much of what everyone has had to say, I'm beginning to feel more comfortable.  I found a recipe I want to try and successfully put it into the lye calculator - step 1 done successfully.  I'm now waiting for a mica powder since the ones I bought last year aren't suitable for cp soap and I think I'm almost ready to dive in.
Thanks to every contributor on the site for the nuggets I picked up and the knowledge I will continue to learn as I go along.


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## moodymama (May 5, 2020)

I've been making soap since November and have made so many different recipes in that time. I usually use the soap for the first time within the week just to see the lather and feel. I have a soap dish filled with soap slices. I know which each are from the design and noted the design on the recipe. Then as time goes by I will use them again sometime later. A soap I made in November with carrot puree is really nice and gentle (used it this week) will have to dig out the recipe I used for that, I feel it's a keeper and I know I don't still use that recipe. I have tried goats milk and coconut milk in different soaps with same oils, I don't really feel much difference in goats milk (maybe I'll have to break out a piece and try it again to be sure) and find coconut milk feels so nice. 

It does take a lot of time too see how they turn out and in the meantime I like to make them all pretty  This week I found out I do not like honey in cp soap. It had browning ans splotchy browning which I am hoping becomes more uniform (no fragrance used). Both pucks were 1 tsp PPO.  I may still use honey in OMH soap because the browning will go along with the scent. Maybe someone can chime in on that.


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## jcandleattic (May 5, 2020)

Wendy90292 said:


> So I need new testers, I guess!


Not new testers, a new formula for soap. 
Everyone has given good advice, and it's good to see you are taking it all in.


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## atiz (May 5, 2020)

The waiting part gets easier as you have more batches and then you always have something "new" to try. It is difficult at first but being patient is worth it. 
It is really more about what kind of soap you like, at the end of the day. They can be so different -- castile, beeswax soap, salt bars, etc. etc.


----------



## Megan (May 5, 2020)

Rick Jarvis said:


> As a new guy maybe I am missing something but if one waits 4-6 weeks or even longer to evaluate the results of the tweak, what do you do in the meantime. Use your old recipe and in 6 weeks decide if the changes are an improvement? It seems the time from idea to testing is awfully long and then the testing seems like it is and has remained subjective. It seems that most likely outcomes include you like it more, less, or can't tell the difference. Then who knows how your end users feel as everyone has different perceptions and needs.


This is what I did. Towards the beginning I tried maybe 10 different recipes (mostly my own formulating on soapcalc). About a month or two in I thought I had the "perfect recipe" for me. Turns out I now feel that that recipe was crap and I hate it when I compare it to the recipe I'm making now. I didn't find this out till about 4 months in though. It was just compared to what I had been using before it was a huge difference.

I feel like when I create something, first and foremost I create something that I LOVE. I need to LOVE it, or I don't make it again (I'm a tough critic)...of course, that doesn't mean it can't be improved...or tweaked after that. Which is what happened in my case.
After I find something I absolutely love, then I ask for others opinions. Most of the time if I make something I really like, it goes over well with a majority of people...the people who don't like it...I don't worry about them if it's not their thing. If their criticism is constructive I can take it and do with it what I can. 

Another thing about testing your soap: At the beginning, I used bars right after saponification...maybe like a week in because I am by nature an impatient person. I knew this was frowned upon, but essentially safe (I had zap tested). The key is, you really need to test again after a good cure....but, you can get a feel from the start about how your skin will like the soap or not. I made sure to wait until fully cured to get a final opinion, and then I asked for the opinions of family/friends.


----------



## TheGecko (May 5, 2020)

Wendy90292 said:


> I am not really clear on why I would need to use a lye calculator if I am working from a recipe.



Because not every recipe is reliable...you have folks who have no clue what they are doing and you have typos. Why chance hurting someone, whether it's family or friends or customers (who could sue you) for want of the few minutes it takes to run said recipe through SoapCalc? Not only are you making sure that you are adding the correct amount of water and lye, but if it's a recipe that you like, it makes it easier to resize. 

And then their are the recipes that are only given in percentages, like I do:

35% Olive Oil
20% Coconut Oil
20% Palm Oil
10% Cocoa Butter
10% Shea Butter
5% Castor Oil

35% Lye Solution
5% Super Fat



> So @TheGecko, are you a professional soap maker or a hobbyist?



Started out as the later, became the former.  Though right now I'm just making soap and lotion bars and donating them.


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## amd (May 5, 2020)

Wendy90292 said:


> *It seems to me that most of you (and people with videos) have ONE recipe you love and make over and over, and then spend your focus on making a pretty pour. Is that true? * Do most of you experienced soapers have one favorite recipe and you just switch it up with colors and fragrances?


My non-vegan (tallow) recipe mostly stays the same - I may tweak it by adding stearic acid if I am using honey in the recipe - and I control some soap qualities with the additives I use. I'm still tweaking the vegan recipe. Then I have some specialty soaps (castile and pine tar) that use unique recipes for the style of soap. I don't sell salt bars, but I make them for my husband so that makes my total recipe count 5. Or 6 if you count the recipe I use when I teach classes, because that's a different recipe too.



Wendy90292 said:


> but Ann Marie's have all these super exotic oils in them; and so do some of the others. I am not really clear on why I would need to use a lye calculator if I am working from a recipe.


Ann Marie owns Brambleberry, she wants you to buy stuff from her. the more oils you buy from her, the more money she makes. You can use those recipes, but for the exotic oils you can sub in more "normal" traditional oils... and that's where a lye calc comes in handy. Also, as said, typos happen. I have a huge dislike of recipes that are printed in qty and not %. IMO all recipes published should be in % so that people MUST use a lye calc to determine the ingredient qty as well as their batch size.


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## amd (May 5, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> And if that lady was selling breast milk soap in the US she was selling an illegal soap. You cannot sell breast milk soap here.


Not to go off topic... but where did you find that information? As far as I have been able to find, it is legal in the US to make and sell breast milk soap. It's even legal to sell breast milk itself (I have a few mom friends who have done it in addition to donating).


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## Quilter99755 (May 5, 2020)

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but wanted you to know that I prefer the soap calculator on soapmakingfriend.com over any of the others. One reason is that I can put in the size of my mold (loaf molds) and it will resize the batch closer than I can guess or formulate.  And it also has a Longevity bar so I don't have to remember which things to add or subtract.  Use them all and then decide which one you want to use on a regular basis.


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## rdc1978 (May 5, 2020)

Rick Jarvis said:


> So maybe a recipe tweaker could explain something for me. So you change ingredient a to ingredient b or change the percent of c, or add ingredient d to make a more optimum soap. As a new guy maybe I am missing something but if one waits 4-6 weeks or even longer to evaluate the results of the tweak, what do you do in the meantime. Use your old recipe and in 6 weeks decide if the changes are an improvement? It seems the time from idea to testing is awfully long and then the testing seems like it is and has remained subjective. It seems that most likely outcomes include you like it more, less, or can't tell the difference. Then who knows how your end users feel as everyone has different perceptions and needs.
> 
> Now to be candid up until I started making soap I thought there were two kinds Irish Spring and for emergencies there was Lava Soap. So some of the soap nuances might be lost on me.
> 
> ...



There is a soaper on YouTube "thesoapman" I think.  He makes beautiful soaps and is an experienced soapmaker.  He doesn't sell his soap, but gives it to the homeless.  He is great and always happy to share and interact.  And he has a super soothing voice.  

Anyways, I think I asked him what a good recipe was for a soap to swirl with and he said that for years his basic recipe for swirls was 50% oo and 50% coconut oil with like maybe a 10% or 20% superfat to account for the extra c/o.  

It was as easy as that.  An experienced soaper making beautiful soaps was perfectly fine with a super simple recipe.  So like you said, there is room in the tent for all sorts of "soaplosophies" 

LOL, my dad is an Irish Spring man through and through.  I wonder if springs in Ireland smell like that at all!

I understand the concern about the cure time.  Maybe that's why it takes years to develop that perfect recipe!


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## linne1gi (May 5, 2020)

Wendy90292 said:


> I've made about 25 batches over 2 years.  I've collected recipes from various books and websites, some by AnnMarie.  There are a few I like well enough, although many of them seem to have one problem or another:  they distort the mica colors when added; they dissolve too quickly (less than 2 weeks) in the shower; they last for years; they don't hold the scent for very much past the curing weeks, etc.)  Finally, I'm interested in advancing my artistic pouring skills, so I've been watching a lot of videos. *It seems to me that most of you (and people with videos) have ONE recipe you love and make over and over, and then spend your focus on making a pretty pour.  Is that true? * Do most of you experienced soapers have one favorite recipe and you just switch it up with colors and fragrances?
> 
> I've really got no interest in using lye calculators.  I spent far too much money already on extremely rare oils like "Left-handed Emus Who Prefer Dom Perignon Oil" and "Seeds of a Plant You've Never Heard Of - that grows only at the top of Mt. Everest and has to be picked by Sherpas on a Thursday Oil".  You wouldn't believe how much time I spent on a recent trip to London trying to find "woad"!!!  (Or in an Indian market in Chicago trying to find "Alkanet" - which doesn't translate in Gujarati OR Hindi, apparently!)
> 
> *Summary: Do most of you have just one recipe you do most of the time? *


NO, emphatic because I have been making many different recipes. I started soap making over 7 years ago and I have several recipe combinations that I love. 100% Olive Oil can be nice and gentle, 100% Coconut Oil also has its place, especially when adding salt. Those are just examples.  I think It’s best to learn Soapcalc and try out recipes for yourself.


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## linne1gi (May 5, 2020)

The other thing I would like to point out, is there are lots of typos in books and in articles online. It is safer to enter every recipe you see into a lye calculator because you don’t want to make a mistake with lye. Also, as someone said you can change out an oil if you don’t have that oil with a lye calculator. Each oil has a different saponification value so you can’t just switch out an oil without first checking the lye calculator. I personally like SoapCalc because all the information is on one page. I like to print out the recipe I create on SoapCalc and add in my colors, additives, fragrance, etc and keep that printout handy for when I might want to make that soap again. I also enter any problems, like the fragrance I used didn’t behave well, for example.


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## amd (May 5, 2020)

rdc1978 said:


> There is a soaper on YouTube "thesoapman" I think. He makes beautiful soaps and is an experienced soapmaker. He doesn't sell his soap, but gives it to the homeless. He is great and always happy to share and interact. And he has a super soothing voice.
> 
> Anyways, I think I asked him what a good recipe was for a soap to swirl with and he said that for years his basic recipe for swirls was 50% oo and 50% coconut oil with like maybe a 10% or 20% superfat to account for the extra c/o.



I would take his advice with a grain of salt. the 50/50 recipe wouldn't be a good soap for me (hyper dry skin). I'm not sure what his skin is like, so maybe this soap does work great for him - or maybe he doesn't use it because he donates it and doesn't know. I've tried a few of his recipes, and didn't care for any of them.


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## rdc1978 (May 5, 2020)

amd said:


> I would take his advice with a grain of salt. the 50/50 recipe wouldn't be a good soap for me (hyper dry skin). I'm not sure what his skin is like, so maybe this soap does work great for him - or maybe he doesn't use it because he donates it and doesn't know. I've tried a few of his recipes, and didn't care for any of them.



I think the idea is that there is room in the tent for multiple recipes and approaches to formulation.  There is likely no one "right recipe" or "perfect recipe" for everyone and for some people it needn't be very complicated and there can be a number or variables.  

I'm not sure if I used his 50/50 approach, but I'm pretty sure I used something close to it for a column pour and it worked out okay for me, but it probably wouldn't work out well for someone else.  

Customizing soap for taste, preference and need is one of th coolest things about soaping.


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## linne1gi (May 5, 2020)

amd said:


> I would take his advice with a grain of salt. the 50/50 recipe wouldn't be a good soap for me (hyper dry skin). I'm not sure what his skin is like, so maybe this soap does work great for him - or maybe he doesn't use it because he donates it and doesn't know. I've tried a few of his recipes, and didn't care for any of them.


I have to agree with you - I personally don't care for any recipe with more than 20% Coconut Oil (excepting 100% for a salt bar), I use other butters to harden my soap besides coconut oil.



rdc1978 said:


> I think the idea is that there is room in the tent for multiple recipes and approaches to formulation.  There is likely no one "right recipe" or "perfect recipe" for everyone and for some people it needn't be very complicated and there can be a number or variables.
> 
> I'm not sure if I used his 50/50 approach, but I'm pretty sure I used something close to it for a column pour and it worked out okay for me, but it probably wouldn't work out well for someone else.
> 
> Customizing soap for taste, preference and need is one of th coolest things about soaping.


Absolutely, and one of my favorite recipes for swirling is 40/40 Lard/Olive with 10-15% Coconut/Cocoa Butter and the remaining Castor Oil.  Traces very slowly - gives me time for a lot of colors.


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## dotgiorgio (May 5, 2020)

Does anyone have a recommendation for a website to learn how to make your own recipes?


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## linne1gi (May 5, 2020)

dotgiorgio said:


> Does anyone have a recommendation for a website to learn how to make your own recipes?


Go to soapcalc.net - and just play around to get a nice recipe.  Here's a tutorial to help. https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...0baeGwzrGRi5n2vuZre5YI3-d8SVvz2PUMH-1voqn4Jv8


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## shunt2011 (May 5, 2020)

dotgiorgio said:


> Does anyone have a recommendation for a website to learn how to make your own recipes?


Find a recipe in the beginners section that appeals to you then go to a calculator and play with it.  You can adjust percentages or switch out one oil for another.


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## Redhat (May 6, 2020)

Rick Jarvis said:


> So maybe a recipe tweaker could explain something for me. So you change ingredient a to ingredient b or change the percent of c, or add ingredient d to make a more optimum soap. As a new guy maybe I am missing something but if one waits 4-6 weeks or even longer to evaluate the results of the tweak, what do you do in the meantime. Use your old recipe and in 6 weeks decide if the changes are an improvement?
> 
> 
> So clearly the soapiverse is large enough for all to express themselves as they are inclined. It can be the soapiest soap with unicorn oil and passenger pigeon feather oil or it can be oo, co, and palm. You can focus on the performance or the looks or some combo of both.
> ...



Don't disqualify your self for being new!  You have the right mindset..."All I know is I like my soap better than my old standards"  I used to have a similar question.  I've been making soap for 26 years.  Starting with cold process, soon learned I like the immediate gratification of hot process and, tweaking, and finding results quickly is just one of many benefits of that method.  There are many ways to do hot process, lots of tutorials out there.  You might be a candidate for that


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## amd (May 6, 2020)

Soapcalc numbers | Soapy Stuff
					

Classic Bells restores antique sleigh bells and manufactures bell home decor. Wholesale. Retail.




					classicbells.com
				




Read this, lots of good advice to apply. It isn't a straightforward answer, but it will help you understand what to change to achieve different results in soap.


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## Rogue-Soaper (May 6, 2020)

Welcome to soap making.  Everyone's soaping is unique. I started making soap because my son had eczema. I was trying to find something to help relieve the dry itch of his skin.  He was hooked, would not let me stop.  I began by making a basic recipe I found in a book I bought to learn soap making.  Then, after a few batches, changed it a little, then a little more, then a little more, then...well you get the idea.  I am a form follows function kinda gal, so it was years of making soap before I decided to "try" a little color, and some NEW fragrances, I haven't looked back since then.  So, on this soapy path, travel at your own speed, don't be afraid to ask lots of questions, you will get great advice here from some very knowledgeable soapers, who generously share their knowledge.  WELCOME!!


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## ravenscents (May 6, 2020)

When I started 6 months ago, I was like a kid in the candy store, ooooh I want to do this swirl and this recipe and add these clays. Now I am working on the same basic recipe that traces slow and I am making lots of notes on oil and lye temp. What TD,  AC and additives do to the same recipe what each of my FO's do to the recipe. The same exact recipe gelled and not gelled. What the soap looks like in 6 weeks as opposed to the day it unmolded. 

So for me I have to have a basic recipe that doesn't vary to find out how all these other variables change the end product. 

My basic recipe is 
35% lard 
30% OO
25% CO
10% Grapeseed oil

33% L:ye Ratio
6% superfat 
I soap at about 80-85 degrees

This recipe traces slow and is a stable medium for me to learn how to swirl, slide and create different looks. 

I know what to expect so when something goes south I can pinpoint the problem. The Mica?  TD? The Mica and FO combination? False trace because I soaped at too low of a temp?

When I can soap this recipe with me eyes closed, I'll start experimenting with the fancy stuff. 

I will tell you what I don't like. I was using silk, but it feels slimy to me, castor oil is sticky at the cut even at 5%, I like to gel except when I use honey and then I freeze.


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## cmzaha (May 7, 2020)

amd said:


> Not to go off topic... but where did you find that information? As far as I have been able to find, it is legal in the US to make and sell breast milk soap. It's even legal to sell breast milk itself (I have a few mom friends who have done it in addition to donating).


Unfortunately, it has been several years since I read it and I am not sure if it was on FDA's site. Sorry, but I did read it. When we were selling online and FDA searched our site I did a lot of research on CDC's, FDA's, Consumers Affairs, and even ATF's sites. But I think it was somewhere on FDA's site. Who knows today maybe it has changed.


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## amd (May 7, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> But I think it was somewhere on FDA's site. Who knows today maybe it has changed.


Your information is out of date. FDA does not regulate breast milk soaps or for that matter, breast milk donation banks. They do not recognize breast milk as food, drug, or human tissue.


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## linne1gi (May 7, 2020)

Wendy90292 said:


> I've made about 25 batches over 2 years.  I've collected recipes from various books and websites, some by AnnMarie.  There are a few I like well enough, although many of them seem to have one problem or another:  they distort the mica colors when added; they dissolve too quickly (less than 2 weeks) in the shower; they last for years; they don't hold the scent for very much past the curing weeks, etc.)  Finally, I'm interested in advancing my artistic pouring skills, so I've been watching a lot of videos. *It seems to me that most of you (and people with videos) have ONE recipe you love and make over and over, and then spend your focus on making a pretty pour.  Is that true? * Do most of you experienced soapers have one favorite recipe and you just switch it up with colors and fragrances?
> 
> I've really got no interest in using lye calculators.  I spent far too much money already on extremely rare oils like "Left-handed Emus Who Prefer Dom Perignon Oil" and "Seeds of a Plant You've Never Heard Of - that grows only at the top of Mt. Everest and has to be picked by Sherpas on a Thursday Oil".  You wouldn't believe how much time I spent on a recent trip to London trying to find "woad"!!!  (Or in an Indian market in Chicago trying to find "Alkanet" - which doesn't translate in Gujarati OR Hindi, apparently!)
> 
> *Summary: Do most of you have just one recipe you do most of the time? *


I don’t understand your statement, I’ve really got no interest in using lye calculators. First, every recipe even if found in a book or online, you should enter in a lye calculator. Typos happen, mistakes happen and you’re working with lye! You need to be safe. When you make your own recipe you do so with the oils and butters that you can easily obtain - no emu oil, or any other exotic ingredients. You are really missing out,  Not to mention that a statement like that makes you look ignorant.  You don’t just throw foods in a frying pan and cook them, you work based on a recipe. Please educate yourself and learn the very basics of soap making, or perhaps realize this is not for you.


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## rdc1978 (May 7, 2020)

I'm not OP, but in her defense, if you're new to soapmaking and you get a book and you haven't gone super in depth you kinda expect that those recipes are sound.  

My only soap book is one by Kelly Cable.  She was the soaper and I wasn't, so I relied on her recipes. As I've come to look at other sources I've realized that some of the information maybe isn't the most sound or best advice.  

But the same way I'd probably rely on the advice of many of the forum members because they are expert soapers there is the same temptation to rely on an author.  And Ann-Marie is fairly well known and seems knowledgeable. 

i also think that the lye calculators can be very intimidating to someone who is new to soaping.  

i hope OP uses the lye calculator and doesn't just give up because she feels a little hen pecked.  I think everyone has given her fantastic advice and some recipes!  Which she should try running through a calculator to see her results!

It kinda sucks that OP relied on a book by a reputable source and because she relied on the author she felt like she had to make this huge investment in exotic oils.  I may not love the book I had but she wasn't having me out here in the streets buying emu oil and what not.  Everything she suggested could be bought at the store besides lye and palm oil.


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## moodymama (May 7, 2020)

Walmart carries 100% lye, it's in the bathroom repair aisle.  It's not the most economic in terms of cost but it does make nice soap. Instant Power Crystal Lye Drain Opener, 16 oz - Walmart.com


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## artemis (May 7, 2020)

moodymama said:


> Walmart carries 100% lye, it's in the bathroom repair aisle.



Not every Walmart, I'm afraid.


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## moodymama (May 7, 2020)

artemis said:


> Not every Walmart, I'm afraid.


Most all do. You can check the zipcode for pick up on the site. Like I said it's in the bathroom repair aisle where you would buy a toilet seat, but it won't  be in the cleaning aisle with the other drain openers.


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## artemis (May 7, 2020)

moodymama said:


> Most all do. You can check the zipcode for pick up on the site. Like I said it's in the bathroom repair aisle where you would buy a toilet seat, but it won't  be in the cleaning aisle with the other drain openers.



Yes. I have looked in that aisle in my closest Walmart stores.

I can find it at Lowe's though.

It's a shame-- looks like a better deal at Walmart.


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## Mobjack Bay (May 7, 2020)

Another way to approach recipe development is to make wildly to mildly different recipes for comparison. I did that by focusing on hard fats first, comparing lard, butters and palm, with mostly olive as the liquid oil.  Then I began adjusting the percentages of hard fats, then switching out the liquid oils (e.g. other high oleics), then testing other hard fats like soy wax and tallow, then experimenting here and there with oils higher in linoleic, and so it continues. I'm always learning something new about what I like or don't like in soap.

ETA: I need to add salt bars, brine bars, 100% OO and high OO soaps to the list.


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## KiwiMoose (May 8, 2020)

I have about three recipes - all vegan and palm free.
My main one I use for about 90% of my batches.  I have another 'high' (45%) OO one that I use to do more detailed swirls with (my main recipe swirls fine too, but this one lasts even longer in a more fluid state), and then I have Zany's No-Slime castile that I make occasionally.


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## Nona'sFarm (May 10, 2020)

Wow, you opened up a floodgate of replies - all good. 
I stick with basic oils for all of my recipes - olive, palm, coconut, shea butter, almond. I have a basic recipe that I tweak if I want different properties, for example more cleansing properties for my gardner's soap, converting to a HP, or more gentleness as in my goat milk Bastille soap.
I always use a soap calculator. 
I use the BB site for design inspiration, but use my own recipes and run them through a soap calculator if I am changing lye concentration, etc. I also buy almost all my essential oils from BB, because I found hers to always be of good quality. I save my more exotic oils for leave-on balms and salves where their special properties will bring the most good.
Do searches on this forum for any questions you may have or general soap topics you are interested in - I learned so much that way.
Best wishes for a happy and satisfying soapy future.


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## Wendy90292 (Jan 25, 2021)

Obsidian said:


> *yes, I have one main recipe that I make the most. I do tweak it on occasion, depending on who its for. Hubbys version has a tad bit more coconut while mine has less coconut.
> 
> not sure what using a lye calculator has to do with buying expensive oils. Two of the most popular calculators are free and its always a good idea to run recipes through a calc in case of typos or just plain bad recipes.*


Well, what I meant was that I thought the lye calculator was used if you are adding some unusual oil to it, like "Tamanu" or whatever.  Since I posted that, I've realized they are valuable regardless of which oils one plans to use.


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## rdc1978 (Jan 25, 2021)

Wendy90292 said:


> Well, what I meant was that I thought the lye calculator was used if you are adding some unusual oil to it, like "Tamanu" or whatever.  Since I posted that, I've realized they are valuable regardless of which oils one plans to use.



I kinda like that soapcalc.net is such a great equalizer.  They have fancy pants Evening Primrose Oil, Tamaru Oil, Emu Oil (!) and just some really nice basic oils like crisco, or great value shortening and I think bacon fat (?)  Its of equal use for fancy, exotic oils and basic, "hey, this is on the clearance rack at Walmart!" oils. 

I just re-read this to the beginning, did you ever get around that that fancy emu soap?  LOL.


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## maryloucb (Jan 26, 2021)

I'm new to this, but I started with a basic recipe from Soap Queen, and I don't imagine I'll vary it too much. There are a couple of recipes I feel like I'll use regularly, and maybe add different clays and essential oils and additives (I've been saving and drying my orange peels to make orange peel powder, and I ground up some cardomom and cloves for an orange spice soap.)

I'm not into the swirly artistic soapmaking. I think it's really cool to see what you all come up with, but for me I just want to concentrate on some scents I really like. 

I did have a friend ask me if I could make a bear fat soap, so I googled a bear fat soap recipe and tweaked it a little bit and ran it through the calculator and am going to try a batch, so the calculator is a really valuable tool for things like that. It's also good to read up on ingredients, too, because when I first came up with a recipe it was 25% cocoa butter, and then I read that that was a bad idea, so I played around with it to get that percentage down to 10%.

I think it's all about personal preference. If you want to play around and develop your own recipes, then go for it. If you are happy sticking with a tried and true recipe, then go for that!


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## AliOop (Jan 26, 2021)

maryloucb said:


> I think it's all about personal preference. If you want to play around and develop your own recipes, then go for it. If you are happy sticking with a tried and true recipe, then go for that!


I totally agree with making the soap you want to make... as long as you run each and every recipe through a lye calculator before making it for the first time. Even the best authors and soapmakers make typos.


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## maryloucb (Jan 26, 2021)

AliOop said:


> I totally agree with making the soap you want to make... as long as you run each and every recipe through a lye calculator before making it for the first time. Even the best authors and soapmakers make typos.



Absolutely! I would never try anything without first running it through a lye calculator!


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## linne1gi (Jan 26, 2021)

maryloucb said:


> I'm new to this, but I started with a basic recipe from Soap Queen, and I don't imagine I'll vary it too much. There are a couple of recipes I feel like I'll use regularly, and maybe add different clays and essential oils and additives (I've been saving and drying my orange peels to make orange peel powder, and I ground up some cardomom and cloves for an orange spice soap.)
> 
> I'm not into the swirly artistic soapmaking. I think it's really cool to see what you all come up with, but for me I just want to concentrate on some scents I really like.
> 
> ...


The only problem I see with this theory - you haven't tested many recipes, so you don't actually know what you like or don't like.  Early on in my soaping I made dozens of different soaps - small batches - to see exactly what I like and don't like.  By now (9 years later) I have tried like a hundred different recipes.  I just think it's a good idea to experiment and not get in a rut.


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## SoapDaddy70 (Jan 26, 2021)

I have about 20 batches under my belt at the moment and have posted about this before but my issue has been figuring out how to properly analyze the performance of a bar of soap from a certain recipe. To me so far they all feel the same to me. I have yet to have that "aha" moment where I am like "wow, adding 10% to my Olive Oil really made a difference" I think I am guilty of making too many small adjustments that are not really making much of a difference in the overall performance so it has been hard for me to say that a certain recipe will be my go to recipe. Also I have no real plan in place and am not averse to using certain ingredients like palm or tallow so all options are open at the moment. When I read about people taking multiple years to come up with their main recipes it makes me feel less impatient about the fact that I have been all over the place and still kind of wishy washy in my recipe formulations.


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## SPowers (Jan 26, 2021)

I came up with my go to recipe within a few months of starting.  I like to keep things simple so I chose some straight forward oils that behaved and nice to work with overall.  I went for a combination that gives me good numbers and a good number for palmitic and stearic acids.  For me personally, I can say they feel nice when I used them and don't leave my skin feeling tight.  Although I haven't had any aha moments,  getting a soap that lathers  nicely and makes my skin feel good - what more do I really want?  And anyone who has bought or been gifted all really seem to like them. I'm a 'don't fix it if it aint broken kind of gal so I leave my experimentation to totally different formulations with specific ingredients meant for specific outcomes - some work out, others not so much.


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## Aromasuzie (Jan 26, 2021)

This may be a silly question, but have you thought of using those exotic oils to make your own moisturiser?

I’m an aromatherapist and been making my own moisturiser for years.  It seems to me that you would be better off using them in a product that is being absorbed into the skin rather than a soap which is a wash off product.

I probably have guns pointed towards me from die hard soapies on the blasphemy I’m spouting, lol.  I am new to this soap making and am now a self confessed addict, love the “science” of the recipe along with the artistic side of colours but when I think of those expensive oils being incorporated in the soap, I do wonder if they’re there more as an exotic name on the label rather than any therapeutic benefit they provide.


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## SoapDaddy70 (Jan 26, 2021)

Aromasuzie said:


> This may be a silly question, but have you thought of using those exotic oils to make your own moisturiser?
> 
> I’m an aromatherapist and been making my own moisturiser for years.  It seems to me that you would be better off using them in a product that is being absorbed into the skin rather than a soap which is a wash off product.
> 
> I probably have guns pointed towards me from die hard soapies on the blasphemy I’m spouting, lol.  I am new to this soap making and am now a self confessed addict, love the “science” of the recipe along with the artistic side of colours but when I think of those expensive oils being incorporated in the soap, I do wonder if they’re there more as an exotic name on the label rather than any therapeutic benefit they provide.


No guns pointed. Most of the veteran soapmakers on here would totally agree with you about using the exotic oils on leave on products only.


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## linne1gi (Jan 26, 2021)

SoapDaddy70 said:


> I have about 20 batches under my belt at the moment and have posted about this before but my issue has been figuring out how to properly analyze the performance of a bar of soap from a certain recipe. To me so far they all feel the same to me. I have yet to have that "aha" moment where I am like "wow, adding 10% to my Olive Oil really made a difference" I think I am guilty of making too many small adjustments that are not really making much of a difference in the overall performance so it has been hard for me to say that a certain recipe will be my go to recipe. Also I have no real plan in place and am not averse to using certain ingredients like palm or tallow so all options are open at the moment. When I read about people taking multiple years to come up with their main recipes it makes me feel less impatient about the fact that I have been all over the place and still kind of wishy washy in my recipe formulations.


Have you tried adding things like sugar, salt or sodium lactate, and citric acid to your soaps?   For me, sugar and citric acid were like finding a perfect bar of soap.  They just add so much - even my plain 100% Castile soaps are so much better with sugar and citric.


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## SoapDaddy70 (Jan 26, 2021)

linne1gi said:


> Have you tried adding things like sugar, salt or sodium lactate, and citric acid to your soaps?   For me, sugar and citric acid were like finding a perfect bar of soap.  They just add so much - even my plain 100% Castile soaps are so much better with sugar and citric.


Yes. I have been adding sugar and sodium lactate pretty much since my 3rd or 4th batch. I have never messed around with citric acid because I live in Long Island and hard water is not a concern at the moment. Is citric acid still beneficial even without hard water concerns?


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## AliOop (Jan 26, 2021)

@Aromasuzie SoapDaddy is right - most veteran soapers recommend against using expensive/exotic oils in soap. Not only is it a wash-off product, it's also unclear whether any of the beneficial oil properties survive saponification. Plus, most of us can already make amazing soap with much more affordable oils, anyway.

@SoapDaddy70 I don't know of any other reason to add citric acid, other than as a chelator. I didn't use chelators for a long time, because I don't have hard water, either. Plus I often use vinegar for the lye water; that doesn't play well with CA, and also has mild chelating abilities of its own.

But I found myself gifting my soaps to others who did, and they did complain about soap scum. Since then, I've switched to sodium citrate, since it's about the same price and crunchiness level as citric acid, but doesn't require any lye adjustment. Works well enough as a chelator for my purposes. However, others on this forum, like @cmzaha, need heavier-duty chelators to battle super hard water. All depends on the situation.


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## linne1gi (Jan 26, 2021)

SoapDaddy70 said:


> Yes. I have been adding sugar and sodium lactate pretty much since my 3rd or 4th batch. I have never messed around with citric acid because I live in Long Island and hard water is not a concern at the moment. Is citric acid still beneficial even without hard water concerns?


I don't know if it would help you - but I highly suggest you try it.  Of course you know that citric acid converts to sodium citrate which binds to the metals in your water.  It also seems to make the soap more soluble - AKA more bubbly.  I know, even after soapmaking for 7 years, adding citric acid to my soap has been a game changer for the past 2 years.


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## SoapDaddy70 (Jan 26, 2021)

linne1gi said:


> I don't know if it would help you - but I highly suggest you try it.  Of course you know that citric acid converts to sodium citrate which binds to the metals in your water.  It also seems to make the soap more soluble - AKA more bubbly.  I know, even after soapmaking for 7 years, adding citric acid to my soap has been a game changer for the past 2 years.


I will give it a try. Read so much of Deanna's stuff on Classic Bells about the chelators so would have to decide whether to go with citric acid and deal with adjusting the lye or go the easier route and just use sodium citrate. Seems cheap enough to just buy sodium citrate and have one less calculation to deal with.


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## linne1gi (Jan 26, 2021)

SoapDaddy70 said:


> I will give it a try. Read so much of Deanna's stuff on Classic Bells about the chelators so would have to decide whether to go with citric acid and deal with adjusting the lye or go the easier route and just use sodium citrate. Seems cheap enough to just buy sodium citrate and have one less calculation to deal with.


The math is simple (even for me) Say you have 32 ounces of oils (907 grams, I use grams for ease).  Multiply that 907 by .02 (2%) The recommendation is 1-2%, so I go with the 2%.  So 907X.02=18.14.   We know that 10 grams of citric neutralizes 6 grams of NaOH (It's different for KOH).  So we have 18.14 grams of citric, now multiply that by 6 and divide by 10.  So 18.14X6=104.84 and divide by 10=10.884 (I round that up to 11).  So 18 grams of citric and 11 grams of NaOH.  Now that's not much NaOH, so you could just allow your superfat to increase by a little.   But the basic formula is always OilsX.02X6/10.  It's not too difficult to understand.


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## SPowers (Jan 26, 2021)

I use ciitric acid but have never adjusted the lye amount.  Are we talking about a big amount?  I'm guessing that since I haven't done an adjustment it basically increased the superfat - is this correct?  And if so but how many percentage point would the sf increase.  Thanks.


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## linne1gi (Jan 26, 2021)

SPowers said:


> I use ciitric acid but have never adjusted the lye amount.  Are we talking about a big amount?  I'm guessing that since I haven't done an adjustment it basically increased the superfat - is this correct?  And if so but how many percentage point would the sf increase.  Thanks.


I don’t know percentage points, but I add about 8 grams extra NaOH, that’s not much.


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## SPowers (Jan 26, 2021)

Thanks.


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## KiwiMoose (Jan 26, 2021)

linne1gi said:


> The math is simple (even for me) Say you have 32 ounces of oils (907 grams, I use grams for ease).  Multiply that 907 by .02 (2%) The recommendation is 1-2%, so I go with the 2%.  So 907X.02=18.14.   We know that 10 grams of citric neutralizes 6 grams of NaOH (It's different for KOH).  So we have 18.14 grams of citric, now multiply that by 6 and divide by 10.  So 18.14X6=104.84 and divide by 10=10.884 (I round that up to 11).  So 18 grams of citric and 11 grams of NaOH.  Now that's not much NaOH, so you could just allow your superfat to increase by a little.   But the basic formula is always OilsX.02X6/10.  It's not too difficult to understand.


Over My Head GIF - OverMyHead No Nope - Discover & Share GIFs


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## linne1gi (Jan 26, 2021)

KiwiMoose said:


> Over My Head GIF - OverMyHead No Nope - Discover & Share GIFs


Don’t be silly, this isn’t over your head!


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## KiwiMoose (Jan 26, 2021)

linne1gi said:


> Don’t be silly, this isn’t over your head!


I know, but when I see it in writing like that I just glaze over


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## linne1gi (Jan 26, 2021)

KiwiMoose said:


> I know, but when I see it in writing like that I just glaze over


Silly girl.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jan 26, 2021)

KiwiMoose said:


> Over My Head GIF - OverMyHead No Nope - Discover & Share GIFs





linne1gi said:


> Don’t be silly, this isn’t over your head!


Moi aussi! Me too! My mind glazed over at the second sentence. LOL

This reminds me of when I was driving carpool. Brian wanted to quit French because he just didn't get it. My son. Peter, said, "Don't quit! It's easy!" I had to take him aside later and explain. Like anything else, some have a head for languages, some don't. Some have a head for math, some don't.


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## linne1gi (Jan 26, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Moi aussi! Me too! My mind glazed over at the second sentence. LOL
> 
> This reminds me of when I was driving carpool. Brian wanted to quit French because he just didn't get it. My son. Peter, said, "Don't quit! It's easy!" I had to take him aside later and explain. Like anything else, some have a head for languages, some don't. Some have a head for math, some don't.


I’m no math whiz, I barely got through the courses I had to take in college and for my masters degree, but honestly this isn’t that difficult. You have to want to learn it though.


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## cmzaha (Jan 26, 2021)

It actually took me several years to come up with my actual vegan and non-vegan base recipes only changing my liquid oils. While I have sold for over 10 yrs and everyone was happy the last 5 yrs the comments were that my soaps were even better than before. I soap with vinegar, Sodium Gluconate, Edta, and Sorbitol with a 2% superfat on average with dual lye. When I started using chelators I started with Citric Acid but did not like the crystal coating that would form after a few months on the bars.


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## MaryinOK (Jan 26, 2021)

I have been making soap for many years. I keep to the same 2 recipes for the soaps I sell. A milk soap with OO, Rice Bran, CO and a couple of fancy things and a very slightly tweaked Castille (thanks, Zany!!) That doesn't mean I don't experiment, but when I do it is tiny batches, in tiny increments, changing one thing at a time. If I prefer the "new and improved", then that is phased in as I sell out of the old. I have tried a few recipes that are very different to my usual ones, but none have made me decide to change what I am already doing. Of course my current recipes look totally different from those I started with, that is why soapmaking is as much an art as a science.


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## linne1gi (Jan 26, 2021)

cmzaha said:


> It actually took me several years to come up with my actual vegan and non-vegan base recipes only changing my liquid oils. While I have sold for over 10 yrs and everyone was happy the last 5 yrs the comments were that my soaps were even better than before. I soap with vinegar, Sodium Gluconate, Edta, and Sorbitol with a 2% superfat on average with dual lye. When I started using chelators I started with Citric Acid but did not like the crystal coating that would form after a few months on the bars.


Hm, I’ve been using citric acid for just over 2 years and I’ve never noticed a crystal coating from the citric. Are you perhaps talking about soda ash?


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## Arimara (Jan 26, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Moi aussi! Me too! My mind glazed over at the second sentence. LOL
> 
> This reminds me of when I was driving carpool. Brian wanted to quit French because he just didn't get it. My son. Peter, said, "Don't quit! It's easy!" I had to take him aside later and explain. Like anything else, some have a head for languages, some don't. Some have a head for math, some don't.


I love when people say French is easy. I never had a head for French but I can follow some Spanishes (I have my reasons for saying that), Italian (minimally) and I can recognize a bit of Korean (I have to if I want to get certain good products).



linne1gi said:


> Hm, I’ve been using citric acid for just over 2 years and I’ve never noticed a crystal coating from the citric. Are you perhaps talking about soda ash?


There could be something about her environment that produces that. She is in West Coast, after all.


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## Steve85569 (Jan 26, 2021)

I use 2% citric to the weight of oils. .02 x weight of oils = weight of citric acid to be added.
To compensate to neutral the multiplier that I use is 0.624.
Weight of citric acid x 0.624 is the weight of sodium  hydroxide to be added.

Example:
Batch is 794 grams of oil.
794 x .02 = 15.9 grams of citric.
15.9 x 0.624 = 9.9 grams of sodium hydroxide.
The multiplier for potassium hydroxide is 0.842 because the mol weight is different. DeeAnna can explain that. She has to me ( thank you!).

And yes I have a base recipe that I use for most of my soap. I will change it a bit from time. See the post on soy wax users.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jan 27, 2021)

MaryinOK said:


> a very slightly tweaked Castille (thanks, Zany!!)


You're so very welcome!


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## Zany_in_CO (Jan 27, 2021)

linne1gi said:


> I’m no math whiz, I barely got through the courses I had to take in college and for my masters degree,


I don't have a masters degree but I do have a work-around for adding citric acid -- I soap at 0% SF. Think about it.


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## cmzaha (Jan 27, 2021)

linne1gi said:


> Hm, I’ve been using citric acid for just over 2 years and I’ve never noticed a crystal coating from the citric. Are you perhaps talking about soda ash?


I do know the difference with soda ash, it was a coating from the citric. With my large selection due to selling many times, my soaps would stay in stock for 6-12 months or more. Citric acid would form a layer of crystals on the soap. If you refer to DeeAnna Soapy Stuff she also refers to it, in fact, she and I had a couple of discussions about it.
ETA Hm, 2% also did not cut the scum to my liking...


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## cmzaha (Jan 27, 2021)

SPowers said:


> I use ciitric acid but have never adjusted the lye amount.  Are we talking about a big amount?  I'm guessing that since I haven't done an adjustment it basically increased the superfat - is this correct?  And if so but how many percentage point would the sf increase.  Thanks.


You multiply the amount of citric acid you are using by 0.624 to get your extra lye usage. When I did use citric acid I used 12g citric acid and 7g extra NaOH 12 x 0.624 = 7.488 I rounded to 7 g


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## Gaisy59 (Jan 27, 2021)

Just for my two cents worth...i hot process and i have used patchouli, tea tree, lavender eo’s and i add them after the cook before the mold and the scents stay and even last on my skin for a bit.


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## Microchick (Jan 27, 2021)

SoapDaddy70 said:


> I will give it a try. Read so much of Deanna's stuff on Classic Bells about the chelators so would have to decide whether to go with citric acid and deal with adjusting the lye or go the easier route and just use sodium citrate. Seems cheap enough to just buy sodium citrate and have one less calculation to deal with.


The lye calculator on this site, soapmakingfriend, will do the math for you if you select citric acid as an additive.


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## violets2217 (Jan 27, 2021)

SoapDaddy70 said:


> whether to go with citric acid and deal with adjusting the lye


Most lye calculators I've used adjust the lye for you when citric acid is added to the ingredients... Classic Bells is bookmarked on all my electronic devices!


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## Arimara (Jan 27, 2021)

Microchick said:


> The lye calculator on this site, soapmakingfriend, will do the math for you if you select citric acid as an additive.


It didn't always do as good a job with that, however. It's good to know how to do the math to double check, even if you suck at math like some of us do.


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## MickeyRat (Jan 29, 2021)

I'm hobbyist not a pro but, I have settled on a few recipes I use for different purposes.  I played a little with exotic oils, goat milk powder, etc.  I have to be honest.  This is just my opinion but, unless it's a very special purpose soap, I don't feel the slight change you get from the exotic ingredients is worth the cost.  I do use some exotic oils in my charcoal face soap but, that's a special purpose soap.  If I was selling it, they might make sense from a marketing standpoint.  The only ingredients I use in most of my soaps that I can't get at the grocery store are castor oil and soy wax and those are relatively cheap.  

I always use a lye calculator on a new recipe no matter how I come up with it.  I keep recipes in a spreadsheet with notes about what I'd like to tweak next time till I get them where I want them.  Once I get there, that's the recipe I use for soap for that purpose.   Any changes to the oil weights or lye (sometimes I use mixture of KOH and NOH) go through a lye calculator.


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## SudsyAmerican (May 27, 2022)

linne1gi said:


> Have you tried adding things like sugar, salt or sodium lactate, and citric acid to your soaps?   For me, sugar and citric acid were like finding a perfect bar of soap.  They just add so much - even my plain 100% Castile soaps are so much better with sugar and citric.


Hi! What do you find the sugar and citric acid doing to the soap? How does it make it feel?


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## Zany_in_CO (May 27, 2022)

SudsyAmerican said:


> Hi! What do you find the sugar and citric acid doing to the soap? How does it make it feel?


Hi @SudsyAmerican and welcome!

@DeeAnna 's "Soapy Stuff" is an excellent source for answers to queries like that.

*Citric Acid and Citric Juice in Soap*

You can also use the *Search* feature located in the upper right corner of this page to learn more.


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## linne1gi (May 27, 2022)

SudsyAmerican said:


> Hi! What do you find the sugar and citric acid doing to the soap? How does it make it feel?


Sugar increases the bubbles. Citric acid reacts with the lye to become sodium citrate, which is a chelator.  Chelators bind with the metal ions in water which reduces soap scum and helps prevent rancidity of the free oils in the soap (DOS).


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## SudsyAmerican (May 27, 2022)

Thank you for explaining!


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## KudzuGoddess (May 31, 2022)

Outstanding thread Wendy90292! This has been so interesting to read! I also started with AnnMarie recipes and eventually expanded out based on the things that were important to me. My main recipe is 30% Olive oil, 30% Babassu oil, 30% Shea Butter, and 10% Castor Oil.

Taking the lye calculator discussion a step further, could you all weigh in with your thoughts about the differences between the various calculators? I noticed that the Brambleberry Lye Calculator seems to give a slightly (minuscule but detectable for those with very sensitive skin) higher superfat than soapmakerfriend. Has anyone else noticed this? Are there variations within other soap calculators? I know that what we are talking about here is math and math is constant but I swear there is a difference. Am I crazy? (I am, that's obvious, but you get the idea) What other soap calcs are out there?


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## earlene (May 31, 2022)

KudzuGoddess said:


> Outstanding thread Wendy90292! This has been so interesting to read! I also started with AnnMarie recipes and eventually expanded out based on the things that were important to me. My main recipe is 30% Olive oil, 30% Babassu oil, 30% Shea Butter, and 10% Castor Oil.
> 
> Taking the lye calculator discussion a step further, could you all weigh in with your thoughts about the differences between the various calculators? I noticed that the Brambleberry Lye Calculator seems to give a slightly (minuscule but detectable for those with very sensitive skin) higher superfat than soapmakerfriend. Has anyone else noticed this? Are there variations within other soap calculators? I know that what we are talking about here is math and math is constant but I swear there is a difference. Am I crazy? (I am, that's obvious, but you get the idea) What other soap calcs are out there?


@KudzuGoddess. it would be best if you start a new thread for this subject, rather than hyjack another member's thread of a different topic.  Well worth it's own thread.


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