# Milk Soap - When to unfridge it?



## Ant (May 20, 2020)

33% lye concentration, 5% superfat, 2.5 oz Coffee FO, 8.55 Goat milk, 1.3 Distilled water, tussah silk, sodium lactate

This is my first time attempting to make a milk soap. I froze my measured out milk. I used the distilled water portion to dissolve the tussah silk in. Strained the milk/lye solution. Everything went smooth and was prepared for the acceleration with the FO. 

I put the soap filled mold into the freezer and its been in there 24 hours. 

So, how long do you normally keep in the freezer? How long do you wait for it to thaw before cutting? When it starts to unthaw will it start to gel?

Would the addition of citric acid to the milk lye solution to dissolve it make the milk curdle?


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## amd (May 20, 2020)

I usually do 12 hours for my milk soaps if I fridge them, but that works for my recipe. I would think you could take it out now after 24 hours, but I would let it come back to room temp before cutting. You might find that because you used frozen milk and fridged it that you slowed the saponification process waaaay down, and the soap will heat back up as the process starts. Easier to get a loaf back into the fridge rather than individual bars.


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## moodymama (May 20, 2020)

I've never left a soap in the freezer long enough to freeze it. Only long enough for a quick cool because I thought it was on its way to overheat.  It was probably 30 mins, then I put in the fridge. I would let it sit for several hours before trying to cut it to ensure its completely thawed in the center.


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## Ant (May 20, 2020)

amd said:


> You might find that because you used frozen milk and fridged it that you slowed the saponification process waaaay down, and the soap will heat back up as the process starts.



Very concerned about that. Feels like I may have postponed the inevitable. I made a beer soap a few weeks ago and that bad boy heated right up and cracked on the top within the first few hours. It was hard enough to cut after I found it overheated. I didn't freeze or refrigerate that one.

If this were to overheat, would it make the finished soap stink? It still looks the same as when I poured it color wise, hasn't discolored yet from the FO. 

Should I let it thaw in the fridge then bring to room temp?


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## Ant (May 20, 2020)

moodymama said:


> I would let it sit for several hours before trying to cut it to ensure its completely thawed in the center.



That sounds reasonable to me. Would hate to break my cutting wire.


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## cmzaha (May 20, 2020)

I have a couple of questions not pertaining to your original question. You mentioned dissolving tussah silk in water but silk does not dissolve in water, it has to be dissolved in your hot lye solution. Since you used frozen GM you would be unable to dissolve the silk unless you added 1.3 oz of your lye in the 1.3 oz distilled water. Also, if you added citric acid did you add in the extra lye which is necessary to react it in order to form sodium citrate? No, citric acid will not curdle the solution. What you are seeing would be fat in the gm that has already reacted with the lye to form little bits of soap.


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## amd (May 20, 2020)

Ant said:


> If this were to overheat, would it make the finished soap stink? It still looks the same as when I poured it color wise, hasn't discolored yet from the FO.
> 
> Should I let it thaw in the fridge then bring to room temp?


Oh, gosh... I'm not a good person to ask. I think all goat milk soaps stink, so I'm not sure this will help in the way that you mean. My biggest concern with milk soaps is burning the milk and ending up with a brown ring or brown soap.

I suppose you could transfer to fridge, then to room temp. The biggest question will be how hard your soap is when you cut it with the additional time. You'll have to judge for yourself.


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## amd (May 20, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> Also, if you added citric acid did you add in the extra lye which is necessary to react it in order to form sodium citrate? No, citric acid will not curdle the solution. What you are seeing would be fat in the gm that has already reacted with the lye to form little bits of soap.


The OP was asking about the use of citric acid, not that they had used it.


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## Ant (May 20, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> You mentioned dissolving tussah silk in water but silk does not dissolve in water, it has to be dissolved in your hot lye solution. Since you used frozen GM you would be unable to dissolve the silk unless you added 1.3 oz of your lye in the 1.3 oz distilled water.



Yeah, sorry I didn't specify about that part. I kept the distilled water to the side to add some lye in to get it hot enough to dissolve the silk. 

You mention the fat in the goat milk reacting to the lye. Do you bother to strain those out or do you leave it in? I watched some YouTube video and they strained them out concerned that it would lead to DOS potentially.


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## Ant (May 20, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> Also, if you added citric acid did you add in the extra lye which is necessary to react it in order to form sodium citrate?



I didn't add citric acid. Was curious to, but didn't want to risk it. 



amd said:


> I think all goat milk soaps stink, so I'm not sure this will help in the way that you mean. My biggest concern with milk soaps is burning the milk and ending up with a brown ring or brown soap.



Yeah, it had an interesting perfume to it when the lye got mixed in lol the hottest the lye solution got was 98 F

I used a FO that would discolor brown just in case it burned. I did use TD to make it hopefully come out a lighter brown. To make it look like a Cafe con leche shade. Thinking about it now though maybe I shouldn't had added a discoloring FO so I know if the freezer/fridge method worked with the recipe.


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## cmzaha (May 20, 2020)

I very seldom add lye to my milks but when I did I did not strain it because I knew my lye was dissolved.

Amd, Ant mentioned straining the solution then asked if citric acid could cause it to curdle if it was added to the lye/milk solution. So that could mean it was added in.


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## Ant (May 20, 2020)

I could see how the original post left out some details. I suppose straining out the bits of fat took away from some of the moisturizing SF factor from the goats milk.


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## scmorgans (May 21, 2020)

I'm not a pro but, 99% of the soap I make is goat milk soap. I had a lot of bad soap in the beginning - there was no one to ask for help! So, I fumbled around until something worked. Today, this works for my recipe - I always mix my lye with my water. That's in a water bath with ice until it's 100F or less. I then add my goat milk. The mixture then turns a beautiful lemon yellow. No curdling. It stays in the water bath until it's temp drops below 80F or less. I do add sodium Lactate to this lye solution once the temp is below or at 100F. I then proceed to mix and pour into a silicone or silicone lined mold. It then goes into a fridge for at least 24 hrs. I have left it in the fridge for up to 48 hrs if I'm too busy. When it's taken from the fridge, no matter how long it's been left in there, I let it sit at room temp for at least 12 hrs before even trying to check the mold. If it looks good, I unmold and cut. I've never put any soap in my freezer. Now I am in Vermont so I am not dealing with high air temps - most of the year. Hope this helps!


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## shunt2011 (May 21, 2020)

Ant said:


> I could see how the original post left out some details. I suppose straining out the bits of fat took away from some of the moisturizing SF factor from the goats milk.



Soap isn't moisturizing so you've go not worries.   It can be less stripping of the natural oils on the skin.  Unfortunately, it's something that is a misconception.  If you've got dry skin keeping your Coconut oil at 10%-15% will make a big difference.

I make all milk soaps for the most part.  I mix my lye an equal amount of water.  I add the liquid difference in milk mixed with a bit of powdered milk to make it full milk.  I add this to my oils and stickblend well before adding my lye mixture.    I gel all my soaps.  I can't be bothered to put them in the fridge or freezer as my molds are too big and I don't have space.


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## Ant (May 21, 2020)

scmorgans said:


> Today, this works for my recipe - I always mix my lye with my water. That's in a water bath with ice until it's 100F or less. I then add my goat milk. The mixture then turns a beautiful lemon yellow. No curdling. It stays in the water bath until it's temp drops below 80F or less. I



Freezing the milk before hand adds an extra step. What temperature are your oils at? Was a pain to make room in the freezer since it's small. So when should one put soap in the freezer? I used a discoloring FO and when I pulled it out of the freezer, to the fridge, now on the counter its still a cream color. Was expecting it brown sooner. 


I'm in Florida and the temps are already high and so humid. Been having trouble with soda ash too. 



shunt2011 said:


> If you've got dry skin keeping your Coconut oil at 10%-15% will make a big difference



I'm trying to find a happy medium with the coconut oil. I love the lather (as does DH) that coconut imparts but it dries me out. He likes that typical starter recipe of 30/30/30 PO,CO,OO. Lovely bubbles but so so so squeaky.



shunt2011 said:


> I mix my lye an equal amount of water. I add the liquid difference in milk mixed with a bit of powdered milk to make it full milk. I add this to my oils and stickblend well before adding my lye mixture. I gel all my soaps. I can't be bothered to put them in the fridge or freezer as my molds are too big and I don't have space.



 So if I am understanding this correctly the recipe about calls for 9.86 of water. You mix 4.86oz of the lye with 4.86oz water. Then you add 5 oz of goat milk to your oils along with the powdered milk. How much powdered goat milk do you add? What temperature do you add your lye water at and keep your oils when you add milk to it?

Do you ever have issues with your soaps overheating? Do you keep it covered with a lid when you leave it out on the counter?  Inside temperature at home gets around 80 in the afternoon.


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## shunt2011 (May 21, 2020)

Ant said:


> Freezing the milk before hand adds an extra step. What temperature are your oils at? Was a pain to make room in the freezer since it's small. So when should one put soap in the freezer? I used a discoloring FO and when I pulled it out of the freezer, to the fridge, now on the counter its still a cream color. Was expecting it brown sooner.
> 
> 
> I'm in Florida and the temps are already high and so humid. Been having trouble with soda ash too.
> ...



Yes, correct.   I measure the powdered milk by the directions to give me full milk.   I don't get overheating ever.  I use a silicone lined wood mold and put the wood lid on then lay a towel over it   I check it periodically, especially if the room is exceptionally warm.  May not need a towel.   My lye is room temperature, my oils are warmed until clear.  Then I add the milk mixed with powdered milk and my FO or EO, blend well then add my lye solution.


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## moodymama (May 21, 2020)

It can take a week or so for the soap to fully discolor. when I make soaps which discolor to brown I like watching the shades darkening daily.


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## Ant (May 21, 2020)

shunt2011 said:


> Yes, correct.   I measure the powdered milk by the directions to give me full milk.   I don't get overheating ever.



Thanks for the clarification. Out of curiosity you say you don't have overheating issues so I'm assuming that your soap doesn't turn brown?


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## Ant (May 21, 2020)

moodymama said:


> It can take a week or so for the soap to fully discolor.



So impatient. Dying to get home to see if its hard enough to cut with my wire cutter. I just make soap for myself and for family. My mom is hyped up about goat milk soap,  so excited to send some to her in the coming weeks. Want it to turn out good. Will be curious to see how lo g it takes to discolor and how dark it gets.


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## Ant (May 21, 2020)

So just an update, I probably should have waited another day or so before cutting because it was softer than what I would like and a bit stickyish but went ahead and sliced em up. Its a pretty lemon curd color so far but already seeing a darker rind starting. I have been using brambleberry's 10" loaf silicone mold so far but used a wooden one with parchment for the first time with this batch. The parchment paper looked kinda stained with a darker orange. I thought maybe the FO weeped but the soap didn't look or feel oily. Not sure if this happened because I froze it then thawed it on the counter or what. Sorry for the bad pictures. The light bulb in the kitchen had gone out so using a flash light. The dark spots on the side are spots of the design. When I saw them I thought they were spots of oil until I touched them. 

So is freezer paper or parchment paper the same for soap making or is one better than the other?


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## Ford (May 22, 2020)

Freezer paper for sure. Shiny side up. (towards soap). Sorry, no experience with fridge or freezer.


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## Ant (May 22, 2020)

Where do you easily find freezer paper? I didn't find any at publix or Walmart but that may be because of covid.


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## moodymama (May 22, 2020)

Freezer paper is thicker and better but parchment works, just not wax paper. I can't find any freezer paper locally so when I want to spend $40-$60 I am going to order form amazon. 

My mom also wanted goat milk soap and I did make her some but I found I like coconut milk way better.


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## moodymama (May 22, 2020)

Wanted to add be careful if you order form amazon, a search for freezer paper also will pull up and include butcher paper, which is not the same thing at all, it's basically just paper.


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## Ant (May 22, 2020)

The parchment paper seemed to get wilty looking. Will have to order some freezer paper since it sounds more sturdy. Thanks for the heads up with the butcher paper!


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## SoapMee (May 22, 2020)

Well, I haven't been soaping that long; but most of the soaps I make are milk soaps. I prefer to use goats milk (any brand I find at my local stores) and full fat buttermilk that I get at Walmart. I freeze my milk in ice cube trays the night or morning before and then store left overs in plastic bags. I mix my lye directly into the milk a spoonful at a time using an ice bath and stir, stir, stir.  I use enough ice around my stainless steel pitcher to be about the same height as the frozen milk. I find the buttermilk tends to have a bit more of the fat reacting to the lye, but I've never strained it out and my soaps turn out great.  I also use tray molds or individual molds to keep the batter on the cooler side because I do not gel my soap; and I soap between 80 and 90 degrees.  Sometimes I get some soda ash and sometimes I don't. I haven't completely figured that part out yet, but since my soap is for myself I haven't gotten worked up about it.


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## Ant (May 23, 2020)

I dont know what your recipe is but with it not going to gel in your individual molds, how long does it take you to unmold?


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## shunt2011 (May 23, 2020)

Ant said:


> Thanks for the clarification. Out of curiosity you say you don't have overheating issues so I'm assuming that your soap doesn't turn brown?


No, it’s a nice creamy light beige if uncolored


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## Ant (May 23, 2020)

shunt2011 said:


> No, it’s a nice creamy light beige if uncolored



Good to know. I prefer the soap to gel since it makes it harder to cut but was concerned over scorching. Mine came out yellow, sure the coffee FO plays a part. 

I think the next milk one I am going to make I'm going to try your method shunt and see how it turns out. 

Will post a picture of the sliced soap tomorrow when it's light out.


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## earlene (May 23, 2020)

It's been a while since I shopped a grocery store in Florida, but I have done a few times.  I don't recall all the different grocers in Florida and since I don't really know which ones are closest to you other than Publix (who does not list freezer paper on their website, BTW), but I'll do my best for some suggestions of stores I know that carry it.

If you can't find it in a local grocery store, try some of these options:
Walmart carries it in some stores, but you can order online for store or home delivery. (Reynolds link) (Weston link)
Target carries it in some stores and you can also order online for store pick-up and/or home delivery. (link)
Albertson's also has in-store pick-up and home delivery options. (link)
Amazon is another option.  (link)

Freezer paper tends to be harder to find in some regions than others, and I've never really figured out why that is.  

I have used parchment paper when I can't find freezer paper and it's okay.  It isn't as sturdy and doesn't work as well for soap batter poured at a very light trace, because it can leak out.  You could use a double layer of paper, though; maybe that would help.  But it's fine for thicker trace.  My advice: Avoid the type with printed designs on it; The design transfers to the soap and leaves ugly blurry stains on the surface of the soap. 

After I started making soap, I learned to add a carton of freezer paper to roll of plastic wrap I always keep in the trunk of my car because I travel a lot (not now, but normally) and tend to need them everywhere I go.  Usually I can find plastic wrap okay, but that's how I found out it's not so easy to find freezer paper when I want it while traveling.


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## TheGecko (May 23, 2020)

Ant said:


> Where do you easily find freezer paper? I didn't find any at publix or Walmart but that may be because of covid.



Same aisle as plastic wrap and foil.


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## TheGecko (May 23, 2020)

Ant said:


> This is my first time attempting to make a milk soap. I froze my measured out milk. I used the distilled water portion to dissolve the tussah silk in. Strained the milk/lye solution. Everything went smooth and was prepared for the acceleration with the FO.
> 
> I put the soap filled mold into the freezer and its been in there 24 hours.
> 
> ...



I make GMS. I freeze my goat milk and then dissolve my lye, a little at a time, in an ice bath with some salt added to keep the water cold. I don't allow the lye solution to get above 75F while mixing as not to scorch the milk. It take a little longer, but it's not a big deal as I use the time between adding lye to melt and/or measure out my other ingredients, get my mold set up, pull out my scent (I don't color my GMS).

I use silicone molds myself and I don't freeze, I simply cover and refrigerate when the weather warms up; during the winter, the garage is cold enough. I leave the soap in the refrigerator overnight, then pull out, unmold and allow the soap to reach 'room temperature' and dry out a little before I cut. During the winter, it'll be a good two to three days before I cut my GMS, during the Summer, about six hours or so.

I have never had my GMS 're-heat' and I don't gel my GMS.

I have never used citric acid...don't know why anyone would.


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## Ant (May 23, 2020)

earlene said:


> I'll do my best for some suggestions of stores I know that carry it.



Thank you for including some shopping links for online. I purchased some from one of the links you posted. Where I am located most of the stores around here have limited paper supplies than normal. A lot of things are out of stock. I had to place a order online for laundry detergent a few weeks ago to get some.



TheGecko said:


> I don't allow the lye solution to get above 75F while mixing as not to scorch the milk. It take a little longer, but it's not a big deal as I use the time between adding lye to melt and/or measure out my other ingredients, get my mold set up, pull out my scent (I don't color my GMS).



What temperature are your oils at when you mix your lye/milk solution? 



TheGecko said:


> I have never had my GMS 're-heat' and I don't gel my GMS.



Good to know. That was a worry there. 



TheGecko said:


> I have never used citric acid...don't know why anyone would.



From my understanding, when citric acid and lye react together sodium citrate is formed and sodium citrate acts as a chelator. It reduces soap scum, improves lather, uses less soap to make that lather by binding with the metal ions in your shower water. 

Here's a link that explains it better than me. Soapy Stuff: Citrate

I am on well water and don't have a water softner so I have hard water. Adding sodium citrate or using citric acid to form sodium citrate appeals to me.


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## Ant (May 23, 2020)

So another update on the sliced soap. Took a look at the bars and have noticed some of them have developed these tiny little oily dots on the sides of them. The front and back of the bar doesn't have that though. Not all of the bars have the oily baby spots though. Its kinda hard to see but hopefully the pictures pick it up enough. I used a mica oil drizzle on the top with gold mica so that I got some on the sides initially but its definitely oil. 







What could cause this? It's very minimal, hoping it doesn't get worse.


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