# Rebatching



## DianaMoon (Feb 26, 2018)

I'm thinking of rebatching my very first batch. Why not? They've only been in the molds (used 1 cup plastic containers) since Saturday night and are pretty new. I stupidly did not line them and had to chisel out one this morning. I don't care about the looks but the soap looks rather bland and blah. I thought I'd like that but I don't.

I have orange blossom water & rose water from Middle Eastern cooking but I never liked the perfumey taste they give to cooking. Can I use them in the rebatch?

Is it absolutely necessary to grate soap? I will be digging out soap that is not 100% hardened.


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## dixiedragon (Feb 26, 2018)

I would suggest confetti soap vs a rebatch. The difference is that rebatch is all old soap that you melt down. Confetti soap is shredding or chopping up old soap and mixing it with new soap.

But if you want to do a straight-up rebatch (no new soap), then shred your soap (or dice into small chunks), mix with a bit of water (your orange blossom or rose water would probably be fine), and let it sit overnight to absorb the water. You want them to be damp, but not dripping. Put your shreds in a crock pot and set it on low.


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## amd (Feb 26, 2018)

My personal opinion (please take it as an opinion): This is your first batch, let it cure completely and see how you like it before you shred it or rebatch it. You said in another post that it would be for personal use or gifting, so make this batch for personal use. Make a second batch, now that you know a bit more about lye concentration, mold lining, etc., if you are wanting to gift and care about how it looks.


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## IrishLass (Feb 26, 2018)

If the soap is new and still fairly soft/dentable, there's no need to grate it- just chop it into chunks, add water to just dampen it (your blossom waters are fine) and then heat it. If the soap is older and hard, grate it up, dampen it, and let sit overnight before heating.

I don't have a dedicated crockpot, so I heat mine in a stainless (covered) pot in my oven set to 180F. My favorite thing to do is to heat the soap up until just soft/pliable as modeling clay, then I squish up portions of it in my hands to release any air bubbles, and press into decorative MilkyWay brand molds. I then pop the molds into the freezer and unmold the next day or so. This is what they end up looking like:




IrishLass


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## Zany_in_CO (Feb 26, 2018)

DianaMoon said:


> (used 1 cup plastic containers)


Are these like "Solo" cups? Or yogurt containers?  Disposable?

The soaps may be easier to unmold if you stick them in the freezer for an hour. I would not miss the opportunity to test drive my first soap (!), so I would set them out to cure for two weeks before deciding what to do next.

As far as whether to grate them up or not, gratings melt easier and more uniformly than chunks. I use a Presto Salad Shooter (gift from another soaper). Before that, I used my food processor. You can also make "soap curls" using a potato peeler or cheese slicer and have fun handing them out to everyone to try!

You can use the orange blossom water and rose water to make water based products like linen spray, room spray, Poo Pouri, spray perfume, etc. Rose water is especially nice for mature faces. You need to add 20% alcohol - most vodka is 40% alcohol by volume, so do the math, then add 5% glycerin to get it to stick, then EO, FO or even perfume, about 2.5 mls per 8 oz or however little/much that works for you.


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## jcandleattic (Feb 27, 2018)

Personally, I would wait before taking the drastic measures of rebatching. Or keep at least 1 bar and let it cure. 
This was your very first soap, only made on Saturday (night if I recall) with a high water amount, in an unlined mold. It could be you just need to let it sit in the mold longer (some people can't unmold for a full 7 days due to the oils/water content) and then wait another 6-8 weeks before making their final assessment. Especially for a new recipe, new soap. That's just my opinion - but yes, if it were me, I would wait.


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## DianaMoon (Feb 27, 2018)

I should have listened to everyone. I went ahead & rebatched & now have a soft loaf that I think will never harden because I added too much water at mashed potato stage. It would be silly go into every nutty detail. Anyway I'm just going to leave it on the window sill and see if it ever hardens, unless someone here tells me that it won't. Is there such a thing as "re-rebatching" to boil out the excess water?

Except for dealing with lye, this is a lot like cooking & reminds me of my earliest cooking disasters. But I ended up a pretty fair cook.

I only started this because I needed to write something about a soapmaker. I thought that I had to walk a mile in his moccasins before I could write about him, and that was true. I learned a lot. It helped my writing. But my soap is awful.


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## dixiedragon (Feb 27, 2018)

Hey, give it time! You don't know that it's awful. Give it 6-8 weeks and then see what you think.

What are you using for a mold?


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## jcandleattic (Feb 27, 2018)

DianaMoon said:


> I should have listened to everyone. I went ahead & rebatched & now have a soft loaf that I think will never harden because I added too much water at mashed potato stage. It would be silly go into every nutty detail. Anyway I'm just going to leave it on the window sill and see if it ever hardens, unless someone here tells me that it won't. Is there such a thing as "re-rebatching" to boil out the excess water?
> 
> Except for dealing with lye, this is a lot like cooking & reminds me of my earliest cooking disasters. But I ended up a pretty fair cook.
> 
> I only started this because I needed to write something about a soapmaker. I thought that I had to walk a mile in his moccasins before I could write about him, and that was true. I learned a lot. It helped my writing. But my soap is awful.


With such a fresh batch of soap, extra liquid was not needed for the rebatch. The only reason you add liquid to rebatch is to add in any liquid that had evaporated during the cure process. Since you didn't take a lye discount and made soap with more than full water - as IrishLass pointed out in her post - and then you added extra liquid on top of that, it very well may be a very long time before it hardens if it does at all. 

It's good that you are learning, while doing, but I think you need to familiarize yourself with the process of what you are doing before going further. There are great posts here that you can read up on, or you can get some great books, or online blogs as well. 
I guess my only advice is to slow down and really absorb what you are learning. 
(I hope I'm not coming across as snarky, that truly is not my intent)


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## DianaMoon (Feb 27, 2018)

No, you're not being snarky. But here's a lot of information and my main concern was lye safety, for which I got chastised as "paranoid." Well, sorry, I live in a small apartment and one man's paranoia is another man's good sense.

Soap Calc is only as good as the info you punch into it.

For example, I read EVERYWHERE to stick with the defaults in Soap Calc, especially the water percentage. So I did. But that meant that my lye% was quite low.  Who knew?

People here really do know their stuff, as opposed to the random [email protected] I read on the net. So I then learned that the lye %age that 38% water yielded a too low lye percentage. Oh well. It's just soap!


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## shunt2011 (Feb 27, 2018)

DianaMoon said:


> No, you're not being snarky. But here's a lot of information and my main concern was lye safety, for which I got chastised as "paranoid." Well, sorry, I live in a small apartment and one man's paranoia is another man's good sense.
> 
> Soap Calc is only as good as the info you punch into it.
> 
> ...



I still don't think you are understanding the lye to water / lye concentration etc...... the amount of lye always stays the same unless you are changing the superfat.  the only thing that changes is the amount of liquid used.    At least that's how I'm reading your response.   Please tell me if I'm wrong.... just want to be helpful.


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## jcandleattic (Feb 27, 2018)

DianaMoon said:


> No, you're not being snarky. But here's a lot of information and my main concern was lye safety, for which I got chastised as "paranoid." Well, sorry, I live in a small apartment and one man's paranoia is another man's good sense.
> 
> Soap Calc is only as good as the info you punch into it.
> 
> ...


It's good to have a good healthy respect for lye and what it can do, however, yeah, don't be afraid of it. Maybe that's what was meant by paranoid. 

Lye Calc's can be tricky until you get a sense of what you are doing and I think everyone makes that mistake at least somewhere along the line when it comes to defaults. 

And yep, you're right. It's just soap!! As long as it doesn't zap (which can be fixed to a certain degree) it will at least get you clean.


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## IrishLass (Feb 27, 2018)

DianaMoon said:


> I should have listened to everyone. I went ahead & rebatched & now have a soft loaf that I think will never harden because I added too much water at mashed potato stage. It would be silly go into every nutty detail. Anyway I'm just going to leave it on the window sill and see if it ever hardens, unless someone here tells me that it won't. Is there such a thing as "re-rebatching" to boil out the excess water?
> 
> Except for dealing with lye, this is a lot like cooking & reminds me of my earliest cooking disasters. But I ended up a pretty fair cook.
> 
> I only started this because I needed to write something about a soapmaker. I thought that I had to walk a mile in his moccasins before I could write about him, and that was true. I learned a lot. It helped my writing. But my soap is awful.



Don't be too hard on yourself, or your soap!  Each one of us has our beginner level disaster stories......and intermediate level disaster stories....and even expert level disaster stories. lol The wonderful thing about soap is that even though a batch might not come out as expected or look as pretty as a picture, most mistakes are fixable, and even if our fixes turn out looking like ugly ducklings, more often than not the soap will still be perfectly usable......and may even perform amazingly awesome beyond our wildest dreams after a few months of cure have gone by. We all have those stories, too.  

In regards to your soap- yes- it will eventually harden, but I would move it away from the sunlight, though, to prevent any chance of DOS (dreaded orange spots) from occurring. And yes- you can choose to rebatch your rebatch if you desire (I've done it before with good results). It all depends on how much extra effort you feel like expending on it.


IrishLass


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## DianaMoon (Feb 27, 2018)

"In regards to your soap- yes- it will eventually harden, but I would move it away from the sunlight, though, to prevent any chance of DOS (dreaded orange spots) from occurring. And yes- you can choose to rebatch your rebatch if you desire (I've done it before with good results). It all depends on how much extra effort you feel like expending on it."

Oh, thank you for advising me to move it out of the sunlight. Another noobism. 

I have no problems re-rebatching. But this time I'll wait until you or someone else tells me what to do. No extra water, right? I do not have a crock pot. I do have stainless steel pots and an oven.  is the oven better, or the double boiler?


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## IrishLass (Feb 27, 2018)

No extra water. 

I like using my oven because I'm getting an even, all-over heat (as opposed to hot spots). Just make sure to cover the pot.


IrishLass


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## DianaMoon (Feb 27, 2018)

Could I re-use the cove for other things? I'm dedicating this pot to soap making but I'd like to use the pot for cooking.

So, what is a proper re-batch in the oven - how much temperature, for how long? This time I'd like to do it right.


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## IrishLass (Feb 27, 2018)

My stainless steel pots/pans/covers pull double-duty for cooking and soap. It's perfectly safe....because it's soap after all. 

I heat my oven to 180 degreesF. Once the soap is in the oven , I check on it/give it a stir about once every 15 to 20 minutes, then I mold it when it looks ready. If at any time it looks like it's getting too dry while in the oven, I'll just give it a single spritz of water from my spray bottle that I keep handy. But I'll don't think you'll need to do that with yours.


IrishLass


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## DianaMoon (Feb 27, 2018)

amd said:


> My personal opinion (please take it as an opinion): This is your first batch, let it cure completely and see how you like it before you shred it or rebatch it. You said in another post that it would be for personal use or gifting, so make this batch for personal use. Make a second batch, now that you know a bit more about lye concentration, mold lining, etc., if you are wanting to gift and care about how it looks.



I should have done this, or at least left one of the little tubs to cure, as an experiment. But I didn't. 

Shoulda woulda coulda.

I'm actually wondering whether I should re-rebatch, or just leave it. I have a loaf-sized log in freezer paper. It's like mashed potatoes but a bit firmer. It's out of the loaf pan & covered in the freezer paper & it keeps its shape, it's just a bit mushy. The freezer paper is peeling off now, which it wasn't yesterday so it's already firmer. If I can get something out of it by just letting it sit, I'm OK with that. Just leave it?



IrishLass said:


> My stainless steel pots/pans/covers pull double-duty for cooking and soap. It's perfectly safe....because it's soap after all.
> 
> I heat my oven to 180 degreesF. Once the soap is in the oven , I check on it/give it a stir about once every 15 to 20 minutes, then I mold it when it looks ready. If at any time it looks like it's getting too dry while in the oven, I'll just give it a single spritz of water from my spray bottle that I keep handy. But I'll don't think you'll need to do that with yours.
> 
> ...



Just one more question & then I'll stop being such a pest - I asked it below. Going by the description of solid mashed potatoes that keep shape & you can peel off the freezer paper - should I just leave it alone?


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## IrishLass (Feb 27, 2018)

I would just leave it alone. It'll firm up just fine in about 6 - 8 weeks or so.

 And just so you know- you are not being a pest. Questions are good. If you are not sure of something, don't be afraid to ask. 



IrishLass


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## dixiedragon (Feb 27, 2018)

You aren't being a pest.

My suggestion - leave it alone. Make a new batch. Then you can compare the two. If the soap is still soft in a week or two, you can cut it into chunks and mix into a new batch for confetti soap.


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## DianaMoon (Feb 27, 2018)

Thanks again - and I hope that my incessant questions help another total newb. 

This forum is truly a wonderful wealth of genuinely reliable info. 

I'm just going to leave the rebatched batch, then. 

BTW - at least now, I can't really smell the orange flower water.


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## earlene (Mar 5, 2018)

I rebatched soap with too much liquid before, and it takes a long time and becomes terribly miss-shapen, but does eventually harden up.  So long as that liquid is just water.  If it's glycerin or maple syrup, it will be spongy-ish for a very long time, maybe forever.  So as long as it's just water you used, it will eventually harden up.  But don't keep it in a window sill, as others have said.  Keep it where it will have nice air flow surrounding all sides of the bars, but not in direct sunlight.  A dark room is good, but if you don't have one, away from the windows at least.


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## cmzaha (Mar 5, 2018)

I totally agree with IL that rebatching in the oven gives a much better melt down. Also there really is not a mashed potato stage in re-batch it is is usually used as a term in hot process soap which is a new batch of soap. Sadly the fragrance from orange water is not going to stick


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## Saffron (Mar 5, 2018)

I used rose water in HP soap once - added it after the cook. The smell did not survive, but it did add a certain appeal when I told people it was rose water soap.
You can use rose water as a toner on the face. My friend mixes it with glycerin and uses it to soften her hands after washing up or gardening.


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## DianaMoon (Mar 5, 2018)

Neither the rose water nor the orange flower water smell persisted. The soaps are away from the sun, on a desk. At present they have the texture of hardening gummy bears. I have used a small piece to wash up - it's soap, and makes a good lather. It's ugly, and smells like oil, but it's soap.

It is funny how many analogies to food there are in soap making.

BTW, what is rancid soap? You don't eat it, does it matter?


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## jcandleattic (Mar 5, 2018)

DianaMoon said:


> BTW, what is rancid soap? You don't eat it, does it matter?


Rancid soap will end up smelling of rancid oil, and could have orange spots or what is called DOS (dreaded orange spots) - nothing is technically wrong with the soap, but if it's rancid, you will know, that smell is HORRID. 
It's still soap, so you can use it, but I would advise against giving it to anyone else to use it. I know if I got a DOS ridden or rancid soap from someone I'd never want to use another bar from that person.


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## earlene (Mar 6, 2018)

DianaMoon said:


> Neither the rose water nor the orange flower water smell persisted. The soaps are away from the sun, on a desk. At present they have the texture of hardening gummy bears. I have used a small piece to wash up - it's soap, and makes a good lather. It's ugly, and smells like oil, but it's soap.
> 
> It is funny how many analogies to food there are in soap making.
> 
> BTW, what is rancid soap? You don't eat it, does it matter?



Bathing in rancid soap is like soaking in the tub in rancid oil.  The smell may persist on the skin, depending on how bad the rancidity has progressed.  I washed my hands with some once to see what happens, and it did persist on my skin.  I don't want to smell like rancid oil.  So, yes, for me it matters and I would never give it to anyone else, either.

I have had rancid soap that was so bad the odor permeated the entire upstairs and started wafting down the stairs.  I had been away on an extended trip and came home to it.  The DOS had spread throughout the soap, which was kept in a very hot upstairs room in the height of summer, which can mean pretty high temperatures in my house.  Our AC doesn't reach the upstairs very well and therefore, the high humidity and heat most likely contributed to the advancing DOS.  But even without the assistance of our weather, I am sure it would have advanced to that point in the winter as well, just maybe it would have taken longer.


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## dixiedragon (Mar 6, 2018)

In my experience, rancid soap is probably fine to use. But it's ugly, it has a tacky/sticky texture, and it smells off/bad. I have so much soap floating around my house that I've started pitching bars at the first spot of rancidity.


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## Aline (Mar 10, 2018)

IrishLass said:


> If the soap is new and still fairly soft/dentable, there's no need to grate it- just chop it into chunks, add water to just dampen it (your blossom waters are fine) and then heat it. If the soap is older and hard, grate it up, dampen it, and let sit overnight before heating.
> 
> I don't have a dedicated crockpot, so I heat mine in a stainless (covered) pot in my oven set to 180F. My favorite thing to do is to heat the soap up until just soft/pliable as modeling clay, then I squish up portions of it in my hands to release any air bubbles, and press into decorative MilkyWay brand molds. I then pop the molds into the freezer and unmold the next day or so. This is what they end up looking like:View attachment 29123
> 
> ...


Wow, that's good to know that you can put it into molds


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## RobinRogers (Jun 13, 2019)

DianaMoon said:


> I should have listened to everyone. I went ahead & rebatched & now have a soft loaf that I think will never harden because I added too much water at mashed potato stage. It would be silly go into every nutty detail. Anyway I'm just going to leave it on the window sill and see if it ever hardens, unless someone here tells me that it won't. Is there such a thing as "re-rebatching" to boil out the excess water?
> 
> Except for dealing with lye, this is a lot like cooking & reminds me of my earliest cooking disasters. But I ended up a pretty fair cook.
> 
> I only started this because I needed to write something about a soapmaker. I thought that I had to walk a mile in his moccasins before I could write about him, and that was true. I learned a lot. It helped my writing. But my soap is awful.



I have only been soaping since Jan. I’ve gotten pretty good at it but I just made a fatal mistake! I was working with a new recipe but I added 2 essential oils I’d bought off Amazon and didn’t know how they would react in CP. I’d used them each before but never mixed them. (Gardenia and Vanilla). I added oatmeal to the oils and put in at trace. I had added a lot of zinc oxide to the batter to make it very white for coloring. All of these things I did were different so now I’m not sure which thing seized my soap!!! Now I will try to rebatch. This is its 2nd day in the mold because I was so busy yesterday! Whew! Wish me luck!


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## RobinRogers (Jun 13, 2019)

DianaMoon said:


> No, you're not being snarky. But here's a lot of information and my main concern was lye safety, for which I got chastised as "paranoid." Well, sorry, I live in a small apartment and one man's paranoia is another man's good sense.
> 
> Soap Calc is only as good as the info you punch into it.
> 
> ...


I learned the hard way about Soapcalc and Lye percentage, too. I’m a newbie. I use 35% and haven’t had a soft soap. I got my only soft bar using them the first time! I didn’t rebatch but used the soft soap in a mosaic.  It was the most beautiful soap I’ve made and I was proud of the way it looked in a mosaic. I cut it up in random sized pieces and put in molds. It was blue and green tiger stripe. I then made a white soap heavily scented with the same (Bay Rum) because the scent didn’t stick. I’m currently using a bar in the shower and it is awesome!!! If your bar stays soft, try this.


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## shunt2011 (Jun 14, 2019)

RobinRogers said:


> I learned the hard way about Soapcalc and Lye percentage, too. I’m a newbie. I use 35% and haven’t had a soft soap. I got my only soft bar using them the first time! I didn’t rebatch but used the soft soap in a mosaic.  It was the most beautiful soap I’ve made and I was proud of the way it looked in a mosaic. I cut it up in random sized pieces and put in molds. It was blue and green tiger stripe. I then made a white soap heavily scented with the same (Bay Rum) because the scent didn’t stick. I’m currently using a bar in the shower and it is awesome!!! If your bar stays soft, try this.



This post is over a year old.  The OP hasn’t been here in a year.  Probably won’t see your response.


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## Mobjack Bay (Jun 14, 2019)

DianaMoon said:


> Thanks again - and I hope that my incessant questions help another total newb.
> 
> This forum is truly a wonderful wealth of genuinely reliable info.



Can I just pop in quickly to say that this thread has been super helpful?!   I have one batch of soap that’s about a week old and it seems a little on the soft side and unlike other batches I made with the same recipe.  I may have added More than the usual amounts of oil and glycerin when I added AC and clay.  I’ve been wondering if I should just toss it.  It seems like maybe I should leave it alone and check back in a few months.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 14, 2019)

Mobjack Bay said:


> I’ve been wondering if I should just toss it.


No. 


Mobjack Bay said:


> It seems like maybe I should leave it alone and check back in a few months.


Yes.


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## Mobjack Bay (Jun 14, 2019)

Zany_in_CO said:


> No.
> 
> Yes.


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