# help making brochure for persuasive speech on soap making?



## Guest (Nov 24, 2012)

I am writing a speech for my speech class on why you should make your own soap. I want to make a brochure I can hand out to the class that summarizes the speech, describes the soap making process, and providing resources for help with soap making, like the web address to a lye calculator, and soapmakingforums.com. I am making a trifold brochure, so I need to be able to fill up 6 pages with pictures and information. The first page of the brochure will obviously the title page, probably with a picture of soap, and a description of whats inside the brochure. The steps in soap making may only take up a single page of the brochure, so I'll obviously have to stretch it out by adding pictures, large text, and white space. I am not being graded on the brochure itself, I just thought it would be a great addition to my speech. It's a pursuasive speech, so I not only have to pursuade them to make soap, but in order to make the speech an effective pursuasive speech, I should provide information that also teaches the class how to make soap. I only have five minutes for the oral part of the presentation, which I focus on giving reasons why they should make soap, the pursuasive part. The brochure is primarily to give instructions, while providing additional information I didn't have time to talk about in the speech.

Here is my speech that I have written so far: [Revised 02:33 11/25/2012 ETC]



> When you’re done cooking bacon, what do you do with the bacon grease? When you’re done burning wood in a fireplace, or in a camp fire, what do you do with the wood ash? You probably throw them away, like most people would. Did you know that only a few hundred years ago people used these materials to make soap? Using animal fats and wood ash to make soap has been practiced for over two thousand years now. During the Industrial Revolution, soap became commercialized, and people forgot how to make soap at home.
> 
> Before the Industrial Revolution, we had to make use of everything that we had. In today’s economy, we are so wasteful of our resources. After cooking, grease from cooking is thrown away or washed down the sink, which can clog the drains. This not only throws away a valuable resource, but creates new problems with your plumbing. Some people prefer to use soaps based on vegetable fats because they feel squeamish about using animal fats in homemade soap. What little do you know, if you have ever washed your hands in public, you have rubbed animal fat in between your hands before. Have you ever looked at the list of ingredients on a package of soap and seen the ingredient, “sodium tallowate,” “sodium cocoate,” or “sodium laureth sulfate?” These are bi-products that make up the soap, which are made from animal and vegetable fats. All the soap you have ever used contains one of these ingredients.
> 
> ...



If someone could help improvise my speech, that would be highly appreciated, but I am mainly focused on creating a good brochure. I'm not sure what else I should add to the brochure to fill it up, front and back though. I have to present the speech on Thursday, so I have almost a week to prepare.

Thanks =)


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## judymoody (Nov 24, 2012)

*Re: help making brochure for pursuasive speech on soap makin*

Good for you for choosing soap making as your subject!

However, there are a few inaccuracies in your draft.

Sodium laureth sulfate should not be classified with sodium tallowate, etc.  The former is a synthetic detergent.  The latter is a salt derived from tallow saponified by lye and water.

Wood ash does not produce sodium hydroxide which is the kind of lye used to make bar soap.  It makes potassium hydroxide which produces a soft or liquid soap.  Making soap from homemade lye is not recommended as it is difficult for the layperson to determine the strength of the lye.

The statement "Making soap doesn’t take any special skill, talent, or equipment" is a bit misleading.  Making soap safely and well does require research, care, and attention to detail and some specialized equipment like an accurate scale.  

It's "persuade" not "pursuade".

Good luck with your project.


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## Seifenblasen (Nov 24, 2012)

*Re: help making brochure for pursuasive speech on soap makin*

Agree with JudyMoody.  

In addition, sodium cocoate is NOT derived from animal products - it is a salt resulted from a reaction between sodium hydroxide and cocoa butter.  Cocoa butter is derived from cocoa beans and considered 100% vegan.

IMHO, accurate information is the foundation of persuasion.  I am attaching a couple links, one to a discussion (and additional links) on how to make soap the old fashion way, using wood ash and what not.  The other one is how most handcrafted soaps are being made.  I am all for being environmentally responsible, but have absolutely no desire to wash any of my body parts in wood ash soap unless I am lost in a desert island or something.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33982&hilit=wood+ash
http://www.soap-making-resource.com/col ... aking.html

*Last but not least, please do stress the safety aspect in your soap making brochure (maybe run it by your chemistry teacher).  Improper procedure and/or inadequate personal protective equipment, such as googles, can inflict serious and permanent injury.
*


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: help making brochure for pursuasive speech on soap makin*



			
				judymoody said:
			
		

> Sodium laureth sulfate should not be classified with sodium tallowate, etc.  The former is a synthetic detergent.  The latter is a salt derived from tallow saponified by lye and water.


FYI, coconut oil contains lauric acid, which creates sodium laureth sulfate. Soap itself is synthetic, so I don't know what point you are trying to make here.


			
				judymoody said:
			
		

> Wood ash does not produce sodium hydroxide which is the kind of lye used to make bar soap.  It makes potassium hydroxide which produces a soft or liquid soap.  Making soap from homemade lye is not recommended as it is difficult for the layperson to determine the strength of the lye.


I did not say that woodash is sodium hydroxide. I also disagree with your statement about homemade lye. It is only recently, within the past few hundred years, lye has become commercialized. The concept of Ph is also quite new, dating back to only the early 1900's. Thus, people have been using woodash, aka homemade lye, far longer than soap has been available to buy premade, far longer than lye has been available as a standalone chemical. If a person must be concerned about the safetly of their soap or homemade lye, they can go buy Ph strips, or a Ph meter.


			
				judymoody said:
			
		

> The statement "Making soap doesn’t take any special skill, talent, or equipment" is a bit misleading.  Making soap safely and well does require research, care, and attention to detail and some specialized equipment like an accurate scale.


I disagree with your statement. Making soap does not require a college education or expensive, commercial equipment, which was my point. The purpose of the brochure was to provide the information so the person can safely make soap.


			
				judymoody said:
			
		

> It's "persuade" not "pursuade".


This is a speech class, not a writing class. Lol



			
				Seifenblasen said:
			
		

> In addition, sodium cocoate is NOT derived from animal products - it is a salt resulted from a reaction between sodium hydroxide and cocoa butter.  Cocoa butter is derived from cocoa beans and considered 100% vegan.


Sodium cocoate is derived from coconut oil, not cocoa butter. I also did not say that sodium cocoate is a product of animal fat, read the speech more carefully.


			
				Seifenblasen said:
			
		

> IMHO, accurate information is the foundation of persuasion.  I am attaching a couple links, one to a discussion (and additional links) on how to make soap the old fashion way, using wood ash and what not.  The other one is how most handcrafted soaps are being made.  I am all for being environmentally responsible, but have absolutely no desire to wash any of my body parts in wood ash soap unless I am lost in a desert island or something.
> 
> http://www.soapmakingforum.com/viewtopi ... t=wood+ash
> http://www.soap-making-resource.com/col ... aking.html


Thank you


			
				Seifenblasen said:
			
		

> *Last but not least, please do stress the safety aspect in your soap making brochure (maybe run it by your chemistry teacher).  Improper procedure and/or inadequate personal protective equipment, such as googles, can inflict serious and permanent injury.
> *


Good idea, especially since I am a chemistry student.


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## Seifenblasen (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: help making brochure for persuasive speech on soap makin*

My fault for mixing up coconut oil and cocoa butter.  Perhaps you did not mean to say sodium cocoate is an animal product in the first sentence, but the second sentence gave the impression that all commercial soaps contain animal products.



> judymoody wrote:The statement "Making soap doesn’t take any special skill, talent, or equipment" is a bit misleading. Making soap safely and well does require research, care, and attention to detail and some specialized equipment like an accurate scale.
> 
> I disagree with your statement. Making soap does not require a college education or expensive, commercial equipment, which was my point. The purpose of the brochure was to provide the information so the person can safely make soap.



Having a college degree does not automatically equate having any special skill or talent.  Conversely, there are professions, such as commercial pilot, saddle maker, sommelier, that require lots of special skill and talent.  Some colleges offer aviation program, but there are no college for saddle makers or sommeliers (yet I have a lot more respect for them than many recent college graduates I have to train).

I got a feeling that neither JudyMoody or I managed to persuade you to see our point of view.  Likewise, I do not find your writing (I know, I know, it is a speech, not writing class) very persuasive.  Fortunately I am not the one having to give a persuasive speech.  

One last question:  Have you made soap using bacon grease and wood ash lye and use it on yourself?


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: help making brochure for persuasive speech on soap makin*



			
				Seifenblasen said:
			
		

> My fault for mixing up coconut oil and cocoa butter.  Perhaps you did not mean to say sodium cocoate is an animal product in the first sentence, but the second sentence gave the impression that all commercial soaps contain animal products.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Soap making is so easy that there is a public forum on how to make it. Soap making is not a skill, it's a process that can be followed if you can understand the directions that are given. Skills require practice to attain, soap making requires zero practice. Of course, you should take precautions when making soap, just as you should use oven mittens when pulling a cookie sheet out of the oven. The dangers don't constitute skill, as you seem to imply. I refuse to argue against you anymore, if you want to believe it takes a rocket scientist to make soap, so be it.



			
				Seifenblasen said:
			
		

> I got a feeling that neither JudyMoody or I managed to persuade you to see our point of view.  Likewise, I do not find your writing (I know, I know, it is a speech, not writing class) very persuasive.  Fortunately I am not the one having to give a persuasive speech.


Your point of view doesn't help make my speech any more or less persuasive than it already is, so why am I the one you are trying to persuade? Nothing you have told me helps my speech at all, perhaps asking for advice from a community with a biased opinion was a wrong idea. It's too easy for a soap maker to be over critical because they assume that the common people know just as much as them. I am trying to summarize everything into a five minute speech here, I don't have time to explain every little piece of information like you all seem to expect.

An insult is something which provokes a positive outcome by the lack of actual criticism. So instead of telling me my speech isn't persuasive like an *******, why don't you explain to me why you don't find it very persuasive, and tell me how I could change it to help make it persuasive? That would be criticism. Likewise, if anybody wants to give their opinion, keep it to yourself, unless you want to elaborate on your opinion in a way that actually helps my speech.



			
				Seifenblasen said:
			
		

> One last question:  Have you made soap using bacon grease and wood ash lye and use it on yourself?


No, I haven't. I don't see how this matters. As I stated earlier, woodash was how we made soap back in the day when we couldn't just buy lye at the store. Really though, I am done answering questions that I feel are ignorant. I could be doing better things than trying to think of an intelligent way to respond to statements like this. If you feel that this poses a danger, just say it instead of attacking me through questioning, this goes with any other stupid or ignorant comments.

After revising my speech again, I managed to make a few adjustments that address some of the concerns that have been previously mentioned. I moved some sentences around, while also adding some new content as well. Hopefully now people can stop accusing me of supplying misleading information.


> When you’re done cooking bacon, what do you do with the bacon grease? When you’re done burning wood in a fireplace, or in a camp fire, what do you do with the wood ash? You probably throw them away, like most people would. Did you know that only a few hundred years ago people used these materials to make soap? Using animal fats and wood ash to make soap has been practiced for over two thousand years now. During the Industrial Revolution, soap became commercialized, and people forgot how to make soap at home.
> 
> Before the Industrial Revolution, we had to make use of everything that we had. In today’s economy, we are so wasteful of our resources. After cooking, grease from cooking is thrown away or washed down the sink, which can clog the drains. This not only throws away a valuable resource, but creates new problems with your plumbing. Some people prefer to use soaps based on vegetable fats because they feel squeamish about using animal fats in homemade soap. What little do you know, if you have ever washed your hands in public, you have rubbed animal fat in between your hands before. Have you ever looked at the list of ingredients on a package of soap and seen the ingredient, “sodium tallowate,” “sodium cocoate,” or “sodium laureth sulfate?” These are bi-products that make up the soap, which are made from animal and vegetable fats. All the soap you have ever used contains one of these ingredients.
> 
> ...



Sometimes I feel like people can be way too critical when it is unnecessary, yet when/where criticism is wanted, an insult is given instead. I also feel like people have been attacking my speech more than they have been criticizing it. I do apologize if I seem a little bitchy, though.


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## Seifenblasen (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: help making brochure for persuasive speech on soap makin*

First of all, you did not  say anything in the first version of your original post that you only have 5 minutes to explain everything.  That would help put things in perspective.  

The problem I have with your speech is it is full of inaccurate information.  If soap making is too complicated to explain in 5 minutes, choose another topic, but don’t turn your untested imagination (such as wood ash soap is wonderful for the skin) into the absolute truth.  My earlier comments were not meant to be insults.  I think, however, the way you make light of soap making, and your intent to spread inaccurate and potentially harmful information, is unsettling to any responsible soap maker.



> Before the Industrial Revolution, we had to make use of everything that we had. In today’s economy, we are so wasteful of our resources. After cooking, grease from cooking is thrown away or washed down the sink, which can clog the drains. This not only throws away a valuable resource, but creates new problems with your plumbing. Some people prefer to use soaps based on vegetable fats because they feel squeamish about using animal fats in homemade soap. What little do you know, if you have ever washed your hands in public, you have rubbed animal fat in between your hands before. Have you ever looked at the list of ingredients on a package of soap and seen the ingredient, “sodium tallowate,” “sodium cocoate,” or “sodium laureth sulfate?” These are bi-products that make up the soap, which are made from animal and vegetable fats. All the soap you have ever used contains one of these ingredients.



I find it misleading that you are using soap made with sodium hydroxide as an example of what soap is made of, but then proceed to tell people to make soap with potassium hydroxide.  Bar soap made with potassium hydroxide is very soft, or made lye heavy.  It is not at all fun to use.  



> There are many soap making hobbyists out there who make soap in their kitchen everyday, and sell their all-natural soaps at local market events. Making soap doesn’t take any special skill, talent, or equipment; people have been doing this for thousands of years, though there are certain precautions you should take.



Again, this is misleading.  You are using the handcrafted soap being sold as an example, but you show people how to make wood ash soap.  It is kind of like false advertising.  Using your method, the resulting soap would not even be close to as “skin friendly” as the ones being sold.



> Anybody who wants to make soap can do so at a very affordable price; if you use a fireplace or burn wood in the winter time, making soap is essentially free. That’s less money you could be spending at the store, buying soap. If you don’t have any woodash to use, you can buy lye at the store, which is almost the same thing.



Not all woods are suitable to make wood ash soap.  Wood ash from fruit trees are far better than from pine.   Furthermore, simply mixing the wood ash with water does not give you the right concentration of potassium hydroxide to make soap.  The mixture needs to be either boiled down, or run through the wood ash several times.  It actually take a lot more skills to make wood ash soap, compared to simply buying lye from a store.  People also burn all kinds of wood, including those treated with preservatives containing heavy metals.  Do you really want that in your soap?

Futhermore, what you described appears to be a cold process soap.  Cold process soap needs to cure for much longer than 2 weeks to be “skin friendly”.



> The basic process in soap making involves only a few simple steps. First, you measure your ingredients. Then you mix your woodash, or your lye, with water. Next, you add the fats or oils to the solution that you just made. You stir this solution until it becomes thick and leaves a trace when you stir it. Once you reach this stage of the process, you pour it into your molds to let it cure for 24 hours. After the soap has cured for 24 hours, you remove it from the molds to let it cure for an additional 2 weeks before you can use it. Once you get the hang of it all, it doesn’t get much harder than that.
> 
> Soap making is a rewarding hobby. Most soap making hobbyist will agree that making soap is relaxing and therapeutic for them. When you are done, you are left with a finished product that you can use or give away to your friends. When they find out you make soap, they will think you have some sort of special skill, and want you to make more for them. Homemade soap is wonderful for the skin and people will love using your homemade soap, including you. Eventually, if you find you really enjoy making soap, you can begin selling it, turning what used to be wasted product into hard earned cash.



Again, misleading.  Most soap hobbyist do not make soap with wood ash.  And making soap with wood ash does not sound relaxing at all to me.  And I will never give wood ash soap to friends.  Maybe enemies.  And if I did, I am almost certain that they would not ask me to make more for them.  There is also nothing wonderful about wood ash soap for the skin.   Back in the old days people dreaded the lye heavy soap.  The only thing that saved their skin was the fact that they don’t bathe everyday.  Selling wood ash soaps?!  You are now really stretching it.  



> I have created a brochure for you all, which describes more of the benefits of using and making homemade soap. It also describes the soap making process in more detail, so you will be able to go home today and make your own soap. Just like cooking in a kitchen with a hot stove, there are certain precautions you must take, which the brochure will cover. There are also a few resources on the brochure which can help you if you run into issues while making soap. Once you begin making your own soap and using it on your skin, you will never want to buy store bought soap again!



My last question is actually very relevant.  While I have never made wood ash soap myself, I have tried some at a homesteading event.  It sucks.  Since you cannot be “persuaded” by words that wood ash soap is an inferior product to properly made sodium hydroxide soap, the most scientific way is for you to actually make some and try for yourself.  

Yet another question:  Have you ever made soap, any soap, at all?  And if the answer is no, does it appear just a tiny bit odd that you are teaching people how to make soap and telling them how simple it is?


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: help making brochure for persuasive speech on soap makin*

This is a persuasive speech, not an informative one. The brochure's purpose is to explain everything I don't have time to explain in the speech: the dangers, how to make woodash soap, how to make cold process soap, how to make hot process soap, necessary precautions, resources to learn more, etc. To your comments about lye heavy soap, if they follow instructions and take precautions, and are aware of lye-heavy soap (the brochure will explain this!), they wont have to worry about lye-heavy soap too much. The brochure can also stress that woodash in modern soapmaking is inferior because potassium hydroxide concentrations can greatly vary, or that any soap that is made with woodash should strictly be used for laundry. You are focusing too much on the woodash concept in my speech. My speech is to convince people to make soap, not use woodash in their soap. After I'm done with my speech, the class is over, and the students go home, they are going to forget over half of what I said. If my persuasive speech was effective, I have extreme doubts that they are going to go to their fireplace and begin making soap. Instead, they are going to open the brochure which is going to give them thorough, detailed instructions, with appropriate warnings. You are stressing the wrong points. How would you like me to convince people to make their own soap, by telling them buy drain cleaner? If it were that easy, we wouldn't have idiots saying "melt and pour" or glycerin-based soap doesn't use lye, although glycerin is a biproduct of lye.

Also, my speech is talking about SOAP. not hard soap, not liquid soap, but just plain SOAP. So how is the fact I talk about potassium hydroxide and sodium hydroxide at all important? The more technical I get, the less interesting my speech becomes, but according to you, I am misleading people by not being as technical as you think I should be. Also, the more technical I get, the more I have to explain. Like I said, I only have five minutes, and I'm not going to change my speech topic just because some soapmaker wants me to be super technical and explain every little detail because they think im being misleading if I don't....

Why don't you try to write a 5 minute speech that convinces someone to make soap? You will realize that it is impossible to explain everything in complete detail, like you seem to expect.


You all are WAY off topic though. Instead of insulting my speech, saying it's misleading, why don't you stay with the topic by advising me of what type of information I should put into my brochure so it's not misleading? That's the whole purpose of the brochure... to clarify what was said in the speech. So if I receive one more critique on the speech itself, telling me its misleading, I am just going to unsubscribe to this thread, ask a moderator to delete it, and just present my speech the way it is, BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE CONTENT OF THE SPEECH WHETHER YOU WANT TO BELIEVE IT OR NOT, IM NOT WASTING MY MONEY PRINTING BROCHURES SO PEOPLE CAN GO OUT AND KILL THEMSELVES MAKING SOAP CARELESSLY.

So basically, unless you have a comment to make on my brochure, what I should include in the brochure, or anything relating to the brochure, don't respond to my posts anymore. The title of the thread is, "help making brochure for persuasive speech," afterall... which I have received ZERO help on, nobody has even mentioned it once.


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## Hazel (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: help making brochure for persuasive speech on soap makin*

Yes, this person has made soap before and demonstrates that it doesn’t require practice or skill. 

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33496

Has also demonstrated an awareness of safety precautions.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27046&p=243233#p243233

I was going to suggest making your speech more persuasive by discussing the benefits of making your own soap rather than purchasing commercial soap. I was actually going to list the reasons why I decided to make soap to help you.

However, your insulting and defensive diatribe against members who were trying to help correct inaccuracies made me realize that you don’t want help. You want approbation and validation of your “intelligence” and “knowledge”. When you didn’t receive it, your little ego was bruised…boo hoo.  

The members weren’t attacking you. They were trying to offer advice to correct false or confusing information in your speech. All you’ve demonstrated to me is ignorance by not doing the research and arrogance in thinking you know more than members with years of soapmaking experience. You need to adjust your attitude or find another forum that enjoys drama and will tolerate attacks on members. Your behavior won't be tolerated on this forum.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1347


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## judymoody (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: help making brochure for pursuasive speech on soap makin*



			
				oscurochu said:
			
		

> judymoody said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



At the risk of inviting another diatribe...

Comparing sodium laureth sulfate with sodium tallowate is like apples and oranges.  Sodium tallowate is a salt derived from the chemical reaction of the fatty acids in tallow plus lye in solution with water. SLES, as I understand it, is made in a lab, and involves converting lauric acid into a sodium salt through a two-stage process involving alcohol and sulfuric acid.  The first is derived from animal fat and is minimal processed and can be made in one's kitchen.  The second requires a lab, and dare I say it, a college education and specialized equipment would be optimal.

You are being contradictory.  You say that soapmaking does not require specialized equipment and then you say that if you are concerned about the pH of wood ash lye solution, you should get a pH meter.  Yes, people used wood ash in the past, but as has been pointed out already, the end result was often nasty.

I also agree with the basic premise that a persuasive speech should be an accurate one.  Why would you want to use misleading data to persuade somebody when there is plenty of valid data you could bring to your speech.  Without overburdening your listener with detail, you could simply state that in the past soap used to be made with byproducts that otherwise would be thrown away.  This soap was utilitarian but often harsh and unappealing.  Today, it is possible for the average person to learn to make soap at home that is vastly superior to either the old fashioned wood ash soap or the commercial soap that is sold today.  You could then list the benefits of cold process soap vs. commercial soap.  It would also be relatively easy to explain in lay person's terms how the combination of fatty acids, water, and lye produces soap. (My daughter was able to explain this to her classmates in the second grade.) And you might conclude by referencing that there are resources in your tri-fold brochure that provide safe and accurate information should anybody care to try it.

You asked for advice so it's rather astonishing that you would then attack the people who took time and effort to respond to you.  If you were willing to listen, your presentation would be strengthened as a result.


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## Lindy (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: help making brochure for pursuasive speech on soap makin*



			
				Seifenblasen said:
			
		

> Agree with JudyMoody.
> 
> In addition, sodium cocoate is NOT derived from animal products - it is a salt resulted from a reaction between sodium hydroxide and cocoa butter.  Cocoa butter is derived from cocoa beans and considered 100% vegan.
> ...SNIP [/b]




Actually Sodium Cocoate is Coconut Oil - Cocao Butter is Sodium Cacao Butterate.....    :wink:


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