# Liquid Soap Preservatives Continued...



## Carl (Jan 26, 2019)

So I became more curious after some of my earlier posts.
I think I've made the decision to want a preservative in my LS.
But, I'm still trying to decide which one.

So, I thought: What are the people who are actually selling this stuff using?

Should be easy, go out to Etsy, search for "Liquid Hand Soap" and look at everyone's ingredient list.

I analyzed the 1st page of search results and here is the count of the preservative that seller's are using (assuming everyone is honest on their ingredient list): (Not an actual scientific study, just me blowing off some Saturday afternoon time, LOL)

No Preservative                         29
A Synthetic Preservative           1
phenonip                                      1
optiphen                                       1
Methylchloroisothiazolinone,  1
       Methylisothiazolinone      

These results kind of shocked me.29 out of 33 seller's do not have a preservative in their ingredient list.  I was shocked by the number of people selling the foamers with no preservatives.  

Some of the other claims that people made (false IMO):

Liquid Soap does not need a preservative due to high PH.
Since soap is natural, it needs to preservatives, so bacteria is no risk, but mold may be


----------



## LoryLu (Mar 15, 2019)

So I’m curious, have you been using preservatives?  I too am looking for the golden answer, lol.  I am looking to sell LS, and it has to be a natural preservative.  Has anyone used citric acid for a preservative..?


----------



## Carl (Mar 18, 2019)

Citric is not a preservative.  And there is really nothing natural that qualifies as a preservative either.


----------



## reeeen4 (Mar 18, 2019)

I'm curious about this myself, if the high PH isn't a good reason not to use one then how do people get away with not using preservatives in their soap bars? people keep those in their showers and rub them all over their bodies  hahaha shouldn't everyone on this forum then be using one for their soap bars?


----------



## DeeAnna (Mar 18, 2019)

Cooties such as bacteria and mold definitely do grow on bar soap, but there are two factors that prevent serious nastiness from happening. First, microbes mainly grow on the surface of the soap and they get washed off if the bar is used regularly. Second, the % of pure soap (lye + fat) is fairly high in a bar soap compared to the % of water, so the soap can do a good job of maintaining its normal alkaline pH which further discourages microbes from growing without any controls.

Microbes in liquid soap can be found throughout the liquid, because, well, the soap is in liquid form. Liquid soap when diluted has a lower % of actual pure soap than what you'll find in bar soap, so the pure soap in the diluted product can have a harder time maintaining a sufficiently high pH to discourage microbial growth. That's especially true if the soap maker decides to add other ingredients (aloe, milk, honey, etc.) to the soap to provide a complete and balanced diet for vigorous cootie growth.

To explain this pH thing -- the pH in liquid soap or in a bar of soap is high due to the presence of the pure soap. The less pure soap there is in a product, the more unstable the pH will be. Think of each soap molecule as a traffic cop that maintains the "pH law and order." The more cops there are, the more the pH will remain consistently alkaline.

I'm much less concerned about microbial growth in undiluted liquid soap paste, which has a high % of pure soap similar to bar soap, and more concerned about the potential for microbial growth in diluted soap.


----------



## reeeen4 (Mar 18, 2019)

That's so interesting! But isn't undiluted liquid soap paste super duper thick like taffy? how would you even use it undiluted?


----------



## shunt2011 (Mar 19, 2019)

@reeeen4 - some members put it in a lip balm type tube and use it as soap to go.  Can also be used to clean with as a higher concentration of soap.  I use a bit on my stove top to clean  the glass top.


----------



## reeeen4 (Mar 20, 2019)

That’s really clever!! Love that idea of using it in a lip balm tube.


----------



## lenarenee (Mar 20, 2019)

shunt2011 said:


> @reeeen4 - some members put it in a lip balm type tube and use it as soap to go.  Can also be used to clean with as a higher concentration of soap.  I use a bit on my stove top to clean  the glass top.



Susie was the originator of “soap on the go”. Since I’m allergic to a lot of soap in public bathrooms I tried to copy her idea, but never found any of the larger lip balm tubes. The small ones didn’t work for me.


----------



## shunt2011 (Mar 20, 2019)

lenarenee said:


> Susie was the originator of “soap on the go”. Since I’m allergic to a lot of soap in public bathrooms I tried to copy her idea, but never found any of the larger lip balm tubes. The small ones didn’t work for me.



Check out Elements Bath and Body. They have .50 oz tubes.  They are like lip balm tubes but bigger.


----------



## Atihcnoc (Mar 20, 2019)

My liquid soap without water is more like a gel, so sometimes I use the soap as a gel and  it works fantastic!!


----------



## DeeAnna (Mar 20, 2019)

Majestic Mountain Sage also has the larger lip balm tubes. Yep, just like the normal lip balm tubes except bigger.


----------



## SideDoorSoaps (Mar 20, 2019)

I diluted about 16 oz of soap paste a couple years ago and didn’t put in a preservative but did put some ROE in and then put it away checking on it every six months. A year in, something weird started happening with the soap and the texture started changing. And now, two years in there’s a black blob in it. Could be something got into the soap and started molding or the ROE didn’t incorporate and congealed itself. I normally use phenonip. I did have one small batch of liquid soap get DOS or what seemed like it because the batch turned bright orange like DOS spots. Liquid soap would still oxidize like bar soap, right?

ETA. I have big lip balm tubes from SKS


----------



## DeeAnna (Mar 21, 2019)

Phenonip isn't rated for high pH products. http://makingskincare.com/preservatives/

Yes, liquid soap can oxidize and go rancid.


----------



## Susie (Mar 21, 2019)

Funny this subject just got raised again.  I was on a trip to my daughter's and got the worst case of eczema I have had in years because I used public bathroom "soap".  I looked in my suitcase and lo-and-behold there was a tube of Soap2Go.  Thank goodness!

I, too, use undiluted soap to clean areas of my house.  Works a charm on a scrub brush.


----------



## SideDoorSoaps (Mar 22, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Phenonip isn't rated for high pH products. http://makingskincare.com/preservatives/
> 
> Yes, liquid soap can oxidize and go rancid.



I didn’t know it at the time and it was the only preservative I had and I read something on Soap queen it was fine to use. I’ve move onto liquid Germall Plus. But I don’t like to make liquid soap in the first place, like three times in the last eight years. Thanks for the reading.


----------



## Carl (Mar 22, 2019)

Funny, this post went about 6 weeks without a response.
Now, it's getting many!

My initial intent was to point out how many real sellers are not using preservatives (not saying I agree with them or not).

It is kind of interesting.


----------

