# Alternative natural extract for skin lightening



## Nelo Monteverde (Oct 9, 2019)

Hi. what other natural extracts that I can use for a whitening/skin lightening soap other than papaya, calamansi and orange? is lemon as effective as orange? is there a known natural buffer to counter the excess citric acid that the orange and lemon produces? many thanks.


----------



## shunt2011 (Oct 10, 2019)

You've asked a very similar question in a previous post.....

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/whitening-soap-as-new-business.76620/

You didn't get many responses though the subject comes up periodically.   Most of us consider soap wash off product and not in contact with the skin long enough to do much of anything.


----------



## Nelo Monteverde (Oct 10, 2019)

There are scientific proof that natural extract from different fruits can help lighten skin, remove dark spots and reduce pigmentation when added to soap. Im simply asking for suggestions. Ive been making and selling homemade soap for a little over 5 years but i dont consider myself a pro since most of my experience is based on industrial procedures in making cosmetics. Im a chemist by profession and have been working in the industry since 2004. 5 years ago i tried making homemade soap using natural ingredients as a business for when i retire. This is the first time that i will make a whitening soap based on natural extracts since in big factories we use lab prepared raw materials and industrial grade chemicals to make soaps and i dont want to use those on my products. Im simply asking for opinions from people with more experience in using natural ingredients.


----------



## Dawni (Oct 10, 2019)

Nelo Monteverde said:


> is there a known natural buffer to counter the excess citric acid that the orange and lemon produces? many thanks.


Here's a good read on citric acid and citrus juices.
https://classicbells.com/soap/citricAcid.asp


----------



## DeeAnna (Oct 10, 2019)

_"...is there a known natural buffer to counter the excess citric acid..."_

No. You need to add more alkali (NaOH) to compensate for the additional acid.

_"...There are scientific proof that natural extract from different fruits can help lighten skin, remove dark spots and reduce pigmentation when added to soap...."_

It would be nice if you shared some of that information with us. You're asking for help, but not offering much background to start the discussion. I gather the scientific proofs you have discovered aren't all that helpful? Have you tried to formulate a recipe for soap that lightens skin? If so, what ingredients have you tried that do or don't work?

If you offered more info, that might make this thread more fruitful.


----------



## Nelo Monteverde (Oct 10, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> _"...is there a known natural buffer to counter the excess citric acid..."_
> 
> No. You need to add more alkali (NaOH) to compensate for the additional acid.
> 
> ...



First of all thank you for the reply. Ive been experimenting with kamias (bilimbi), orange and calamansi. Kamias is seasonal here and mostly grow on summertime (its rainy season now here in the philippines) so its difficult to get the fruit in the quantity that i need. Orange is very expensive here. Calamansi is cheap but too acidic for my taste. All this fruits are rich in vitamin C and has been proven to aid in lightening (not really whiten) the skin and help reduce dark spots. In the company that i work for, we use licorice root extract, bearberry extract and mostly lab-prepared raw materials for our whitening products which i dont want to use since licorice and bearberey needs to be imported overseas (these are not locally grown here) and i really dont want to use chemicals as much as possible unless neccessary. Thats why im looking for alternatives for me to experiment with to see which is more effective. By the way i havnt tested them yet since they are still curing and wont be available for 2-3 weeks more.


----------



## shunt2011 (Oct 10, 2019)

@Nelo Monteverde - Would still like to see the scientific proof that lighteners will work in soap as DeeAnna asked too.   I've never seen anyone show scientific proof , it comes up periodically.  Call me interested.


----------



## Nelo Monteverde (Oct 10, 2019)

Sorry for the late reply. its 1 am here, got a bit sleepy.
Here are some links of researches made about fruits and plants derived extract that can help lighten skin.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2801997/

https://www.mdpi.com/2079-9284/3/3/27/htm

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ility_of_Plant_Extracts_in_Skin_Care_Products

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ude_papain_enzyme_and_antioxidant_from_papaya

https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...phie/9e3e34a3557e838293d881c7c14996835ffe8c84


----------



## DeeAnna (Oct 10, 2019)

Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) will be converted to sodium ascorbate in lye-based soap. The ascorbate is going to be mostly dissociated (pKa of around 4.4) in the high alkalinity of soap (pH 9-11). 

One reputable science-based article I found states ascorbic acid can be absorbed by the skin but only when the pH is low (around 4) so the vitamin C is in acid form. It may offer some benefits for healing wound, reducing the appearance of sun damage and wrinkles, etc. But it's ascorbic acid, not ascorbate, that is effective, and results are seen only after weeks of continuous use.

All but one of the references you provide in your last post did not study the soap-based delivery of the chemicals they evaluated. Of the one study that does look at soap-based delivery, the study did not investigate skin lightening. Another study you cite mentions long-term use of skin lightening chemicals is required to see results. Soap is only on the skin for moments, so how can it realistically do anything to lighten skin? 

I appreciate there are chemicals that can lighten skin, but I also see they produce measurable results only with long-term use. I don't see how adding those chemicals to soap will produce skin lightening results. Even if a person uses the soap every day, soap is washed off -- it's not left on the skin indefinitely. I just don't see how a soap, given how it's used, can do anything to measurably lighten the skin. A leave-on topical lotion is a better bet.


----------



## Nelo Monteverde (Oct 10, 2019)

Any Whitening or lightening products are not designed to see immediate results. Even whitening lotion takes time before you can notice changes in your skin. Lightening the skin is not the same as moisturizing it or conditioning it that you can see results in just a few wash. Most asians are naturally tan (with the exeption of Japanese, Koreans and a few chinese people) thats why most of the studies are conducted using asian subjects. It may not be effective in your side of the world, but here on our side we see its effects everyday.


----------



## DeeAnna (Oct 10, 2019)

_"...Any Whitening or lightening products are not designed to see immediate results...."_

Hey, I'm agreeing with you! I realize there are chemicals that do lighten skin (and people on my side of the pond do indeed use them.) But like I said earlier, "..._Soap is only on the skin for moments, so how can it realistically do anything to lighten skin?_..." If it takes a long time for topical creams to work and they're on the skin for many hours per day, how can soap be effective in just a few moments per day?

I just fail to see what research is out there to support the idea of adding chemicals _to soap_ and getting measurable skin-lightening results just from using the soap. It's the _delivery method _you want to use that I'm skeptical about, not the chemicals themselves.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and ideas. I'm afraid I don't have any good ideas to offer, but I appreciate being given the chance to try.


----------



## shunt2011 (Oct 10, 2019)

I too am familiar with lightening but wanted more information on it working in soap as you claimed.  Bit as I suspected it’s not doable for the short time Soap is on the skin.  Leave on products yes.  Thanks again.


----------



## penelopejane (Oct 10, 2019)

Wouldn't it be nice if one day everyone appreciated what beautiful skin they have been given at birth and rejoice in our differences?


----------



## Rsapienza (Oct 11, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if one day everyone appreciated what beautiful skin they have been given at birth and rejoice in our differences?


My thoughts exactly. It's actually quite sad.


----------



## Dawni (Oct 11, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if one day everyone appreciated what beautiful skin they have been given at birth and rejoice in our differences?


Yes.


----------



## Daisy (Oct 11, 2019)

penelopejane said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if one day everyone appreciated what beautiful skin they have been given at birth and rejoice in our differences?


I agree with you with a caveat. For changing your natural color I would advise against it. However, some people do suffer from blotching and dark patches due to sun damage, medication side effects etc. and would need skin lighteners. I don't know if compounded into wash off products would work!


----------



## Mica Hamilton (Nov 6, 2019)

Anyone else throw up in their mouths at reading the title, or am I alone?


----------



## shunt2011 (Nov 7, 2019)

Mica Hamilton said:


> Anyone else throw up in their mouths at reading the title, or am I alone?



I'm not quite understanding your comment.  Why?  skin lighteners are very common for age spots etc....


----------



## Mica Hamilton (Nov 7, 2019)

shunt2011 said:


> I'm not quite understanding your comment.  Why?  skin lighteners are very common for age spots etc....


But mainly for cosmetic makers who target black people to lighten their skin.


----------



## shunt2011 (Nov 7, 2019)

Mica Hamilton said:


> But mainly for cosmetic makers who target black people to lighten their skin.



That's where you are wrong.  It's huge with Asian women (the OP ) as well as other ethnicity. I know quite a few women who use bleach for their dark pigments on their skin from sun damage.   Don't just assume someone is being offensive.  You're the only one who jumped to a conclusion/asumption.  It never even crossed my mind to be honest.


----------



## Dahila (Nov 7, 2019)

I make a facial moisturizer which suppose to help with dark spots discoloration.  A lot of light skinned people have this problem, My skin is kind of dark for Caucasian,  Statements  like this:  "But mainly for cosmetic makers who target black people to lighten their skin." are completely wring and a bit of offensive for me


----------



## Nanette (Nov 7, 2019)

shunt2011 said:


> That's where you are wrong.  It's huge with Asian women (the OP ) as well as other ethnicity. I know quite a few women who use bleach for their dark pigments on their skin from sun damage.   Don't just assume someone is being offensive.  You're the only one who jumped to a conclusion/asumption.  It never even crossed my mind to be honest.


I know people who use lighteners for hyperpigmentation...and they are not black or trying to lighten all over. My neighbor is very fair but she has dark patches on her face, like a spotted pony. I think shes rather beautiful but she chooses to lighten those spots.


----------



## cmzaha (Nov 7, 2019)

I am asked almost weekly from customers looking for something to lighten their age and or sun damage spots. There are proven chemicals that will accomplish this with leave-on products and I recommend them to consult with their doctor or ask their doctor for a referral to a good dermatologist. I agree do no think someone is being offensive. Some folks have severe issues with darkening spots/areas. I see it in my market regularly. 

While I have some of the actual chemicals, Kojic Acid, Tranexamic Acid Powder, I am not a doctor and do not use them in products for sale. I use them in a product for my husband.


----------



## LilyJo (Nov 7, 2019)

Unfortunately skin lightening has a lot of negative connotations and whilst I understand why pigmentation may be a reason I know lightening products are often pushed to poc - which prompted the negative responses.


----------



## Opeyemi (Nov 7, 2019)

am just finish my high school,thinking of what to do..when there is no employment ..iam so much interested in make soap in nigeria.i will be glad if i can teach me


----------



## Kiti Williams (Nov 8, 2019)

I am interested in this, because of a very bad sunburn that has left the skin on my forearms blotchy.  I would like to repair the damage that was done (I do not sit out and fry my skin to a tan).  I will watch this thread and go and buy a few lemons.


----------



## TheGecko (Nov 12, 2019)

Mica Hamilton said:


> Anyone else throw up in their mouths at reading the title, or am I alone?



You’re alone.


----------



## violets2217 (Nov 12, 2019)

Hmmm.... I keep following this post just hoping it will give some hints. But it has seemed to have gone off the rails. My daughter who is mixed has experienced an allergic reaction to cheap jewelry (a nickel allergy) and developed a rash around her neck and spread down her sides. They have now turned not brown spots. I’ve tried a few things but a lot of homemade remedies call for citrus ingredients and with living in Florida, photo sensitive ingredients scare me. Plus she’s young and not really too concerned. But we will keep looking. Just never thought to add something to her soap since it washes right off. But maybe some coffee to exfoliate?


----------



## Dawni (Nov 12, 2019)

violets2217 said:


> Hmmm.... I keep following this post just hoping it will give some hints. But it has seemed to have gone off the rails. My daughter who is mixed has experienced an allergic reaction to cheap jewelry (a nickel allergy) and developed a rash around her neck and spread down her sides. They have now turned not brown spots. I’ve tried a few things but a lot of homemade remedies call for citrus ingredients and with living in Florida, photo sensitive ingredients scare me. Plus she’s young and not really too concerned. But we will keep looking. Just never thought to add something to her soap since it washes right off. But maybe some coffee to exfoliate?


The south Asians use turmeric a lot in face masks.. If you search there are lots of recipes. Some mix with yogurt and/or honey and some other things. They leave it on for a while then wash it off.

On the other side of the continent they use pureed tomatoes or papayas as a mask or rice water as a toner.

Worth a try?

Soaps with these ingredients have been marketed as whitening too. I'm seriously thinking of making one or two and experimenting on myself and post before and after pics lol Not that I want or need whitening, but just to see if any of those claims have any basis.


----------



## violets2217 (Nov 12, 2019)

Dawni said:


> The south Asians use turmeric a lot in face masks.. If you search there are lots of recipes. Some mix with yogurt and/or honey and some other things. They leave it on for a while then wash it off.
> 
> On the other side of the continent they use pureed tomatoes or papayas as a mask or rice water as a toner.
> 
> ...


I’ve read about turmeric and have made a rice flour mask... but not for lightening purposes. Thanks! I’ll check it out!


----------



## DeeAnna (Nov 12, 2019)

I don't care for the "judgy" comments that have been made in this thread (and the "throwing up" comment was utterly out of line). I'm glad the conversation has drifted back to a more factual discussion.

Like I told the original poster, I accept there are chemicals that can lighten skin; I just don't see how these chemicals _in a soap_ will do much good. They need time to work, and even if a person left the soap lather on the skin for some minutes while bathing the rest of the body, that's really not much time.

Like Carolyn (cmzaha), I think these chemicals are going to be a lot more effective in a leave-on product that stays on the skin for hours, not minutes. I have a blotch of hyper-pigmentation on my face, and I'd be formulating a leave-on product if I wanted to lighten that area.


----------



## Nanette (Nov 12, 2019)

I have read that tamanu oil is used for hyperpigmentation, and sandalwood powder is used as a mask for same...just what I have come across in looking into the properties of these two things..tamanu is also supposidly good for scar tissue--helping in  the reduction of --and wrinkles and fine lines....


----------



## true blue (Nov 12, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Like Carolyn (cmzaha), I think these chemicals are going to be a lot more effective in a leave-on product that stays on the skin for hours, not minutes.


Absolutely. Using a soap with those type of ingredients would be relatively useless, as it just gets rinsed off. They would have to be in a cream. Even then, if you're targeting age spots, you'd only want to cover the actual spots. Think about it ... if it's meant to lighten skin, the product doesn't know to pick between dark/light skin. Slather it over the entire area and, even if it were to technically work, the whole area would lighten together and you wouldn't really see much change. 



violets2217 said:


> My daughter who is mixed has experienced an allergic reaction to cheap jewelry (a nickel allergy) and developed a rash around her neck and spread down her sides. They have now turned not brown spots.


Wow! I've had reactions to cheap jewelry myself and have know others to also. But the skin developing spots from it later? That's odd. How long has it been? Are the spots right where the jewelry was? 

As for age spots ... my MIL has had them for many many years (she's very light) and nothing has ever helped. 

When it comes to blotchy hyper pigmentation on the face for most women, though ... that's typically experienced by either pregnant women (hence it's name, 'pregnancy mask' as many times it will disappear afterwards, though not always) or other women as we get older. There's really nothing you can do from the outside ... makeup doesn't even cover it well ... as it's a sign of unbalanced hormones in the body. I had it for years, then started taking particular supplements and it has since disappeared. 

I know there's other types of hyper pigmentation or spottyness also, but unfortunatley, skin whiteners don't always work very well for them. Historically, skin whiteners were used by women to whiten their skin overall, as a tan of any kind was looked down upon. Apparently, the best thing that works best for it is arsnic ... which I've heard is also fed to chickens on a commercial scale (in 'small enough' amounts) to keep their meat pale. But yes, women used to commonly smear arsnic-laced cream all over their hands & faces.


----------



## DeeAnna (Nov 12, 2019)

"...arsnic ... which I've heard is also fed to chickens on a commercial scale (in 'small enough' amounts) to keep their meat pale..."

It was used as a medicine in the days when there were no better options. But at least in the US, that was many decades ago. 

For a class in grad school, we studied the groundwater test results for one company that produced products like this in the mid 1900s. The groundwater was contaminated with heavy metals like arsenic, and the area was (maybe still is) listed as a US EPA Superfund site. Quite the mess.


----------

