# soap making machine



## waisbrod

I an thinking about buying a nice small machine for soap making, I saw prices around 1000$, my question is, where can I find a tutorial and recipes to the make it, I understand that it's a hot process soap and I only know about cp..


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Wow, that is a lot of money for making a few soaps!  Surely a $10 stick blender and a $30 crockpot are enough?


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## waisbrod

Well, if i go through with this, I have a customer who will Order a few thousands of bars each month. going from a hobby to a business, help anyone?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Okay, I'll ask some blunt questions that are pretty much rhetorical:

You have never made HP at all?  You haven't got the experience to know that the recipes for CP and HP are pretty much the same?  You are looking for a brand new recipe that you have never made so that you can see the soap?  You want to make thousands of bars a month?

I'm not being overly nice here, I know - but if they are agreeing to buy something, shouldn't you actually make that product first?  They might not like the HP results enough to want thousands of bars a month so it might be worth checking before you buy a machine that makes HP, ie a product that the customer might not want.

I'll just say it - if you're asking these sorts of questions, then I do not think you are in any serious position to be considering this.


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## cmzaha

I am completely wit EFG here and he stated it very well. When one first gets into soapmaking I find there are always people asking for such, but very very few follow through. Plus you need to think about the fact that hp really needs more than 4 weeks curing/drying time since they actually come out softer than cp. They take longer to dry and need to cure just like cp. You mention 1000 for the machine what about the molds? There are thousnads of recipes floating around the internet some are very good some are very bad you need the experience to know the difference. It is not simply buy a machine and start selling. I see this qite often at my markets and some do not even have the answers to simple questions about their soap. STUDY and put in your time making soap. Very few soapmakers can really make a living at it and the markets are saturated


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## waisbrod

I am reading everything I can everywhere I can right now, my customer wants me to do it for him. I'm just starting in this whole soap business, after only 2 batches of cp. I found out that machine making soap is not like hp soap but I still have no idea how to pick a right recipe that will be cost effective yet still a high quality one. Right now I'm focusing on simple hand made cp and hp soaps and that machine part is something that I want to know more about cause I couldn't find too much information.. btw that machine will do everything for u including cutting to bars, for my small understanding all u have to do is just pour in the ingredients


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## Lion Of Judah

WOW !!! that is deep ! you only made two CP soap and plan to run top flight making over a thousand bars a month ? i am so overwhelmed about this one topic that i can not speak straight . it is not impossible to go from 0 - 60 in the soap making world , more often it is improbable given other factors. have you considered what oils you will be using , price and supplier , what is the rate your soap making inventory moves. what type bars are you planing to make . have you tested you recipe on a larger scale . i have been making soap for over two years and still do not think i am ready to sell [ that is just me ] and i have had offers . 
there are so much things i could continue to touch on but i will say this : step back and watch it all in front of you , weigh your skill level at the moment and factor in how long you think it will take you to get it up to speed to create a product that you will know inside out and is sound as well . try to look at the worst case scenario, and ask your self if you can recover from that , then look at the capital you would be investing to get up and running like a Belmont stakes Thoroughbred . And when you think you thought of everything ask your self is it something you really want to do , not for money but for the love of it , because when it becomes hard to do it is easier to remember why you love it in the 1st place than thinking i am getting XYZ amount of money with ABC heartaches to go with it .

[disclamer : above comments represent my personal opinion and not a "rule of thumb per se. so therefore it should be taken as such ]


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## Susie

I am afraid I am going to add to the questions.  You are duly warned.

How long has that customer been in business?  How much is (s)he going to mark up your soap?  Or are you going on consignment? Do they even have a reliable BBA market?  What regulations do you need to follow to do this kind of business?  You do realize that when you go to a machine that you pour ingredients in one end and get cut soap out the other, you lose the ability to call it handcrafted, right?  Also, you lose the ability to finely control every detail of your soap.

And if you are asking about info and recipes, you so do not need to be jumping in blindfolded.


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## Lion Of Judah

before i forget , i wanted to know , is the machine in question a "soap milling " machine where its pressing soap rather than making it from scratch?


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## Ellacho

Wow.. I am in shock...I don't know how anyone can even thinking about going into business after two batches of soap.


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## SparksnFlash

waisbrod said:


> ... going from a hobby to a business, help anyone?



I actually had to step back from this thread for a bit, and decide whether to respond.  

 Waisbrod, you are not even at the hobby stage yet.  Your first post that I can find was June 21, 2014, where you wanted advice on your FIRST batch of soap, and didn't know what Zap is.  Now you've made 2 batches of CP.  Neither of these batches have even had a chance to properly cure.

 Now you want to go into full scale 1000/mo bar business making HP, which you said you've never made, and planning to use a machine which means your soap won't be "handmade".

 I actually haven't been on this forum long, and have several years of hobby and light sales under my belt.  While I wouldn't be so bold to speak for others on this forum, I am personally a bit affronted at your nerve to use these very kind and giving people, many who have spent years, if not decades at their craft, and freely offer advice based on their experience and knowledge.

 (Dear Moderator - I hope this message is not offensive - if so, please feel free to delete, and I hope I don't get bounced from the Forum - Thanks)


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## IrishLass

Hello Waisbrod.  From what I can gather according to the thread you posted in the following link, you made your first ever batch of soap only about 3 weeks ago or so?: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46556

If true, then I must agree 100% with both The Efficacious Genteman and Cmzaha.

Three weeks has not even been enough time for your first batch to have properly cured yet, not to mention the extra time you'll need in order to conduct longevity tests on it to see how it fares over the weeks and months (which you should be doing if you are planning to sell).

The reason to take things slow and to not jump right into selling lye-based soap is because the nature of lye-based soap is such that problems such as DOS/rancidity, scent/color fading, and/or morphing usually don't reveal themselves right away. For example, you can have a soap that looks and smells absolutely lovely right out of the mold, but 2 months down the road the shape has warped from excess water-loss, or it has developed ugly orange spots all over it (DOS), or the scent has totally faded and the color has morphed to dark brown or some other color.

I always say that those new to the craft of soap-making should give themselves a good year before deciding to sell- a year that is well-spent in making lots of different batches of soap so that:

1) you can understand the soap-making process inside and out enough to be able to confidently answer the questions your customers will ask you;

2) you can test for quality control to see how your soap fares under different conditions;

and

3) you can give your soap out to willing testers who'll give you honest feedback so that you can tweak your formulas to be the best they can be, which in turn will give you the confidence of knowing that you are offering a quality product to your customers that they'll be happy to buy from you again and again.

Bottom line? It's my firm belief that you will come out ahead (both financially and otherwise) by investing in the time needed to first learn the craft, instead of investing so much on a machine right now. 

IrishLass 


 Edited to add that besides The Efficacious Gentleman and Cmzaha, I also concur  with what everyone else has said [a lot of people chimed in while I was busy typing away!].


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## Dahila

Very brave, very brave )


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## Bex1982

is this a joke post? Not to be mean. But i know sometimes people on forums post fake posts to get everyone all up in arms and such. I find it hard to believe that this is real. The customer can not even try the first soap this person has made. but they will promise to invest in 1000 bars a month or week or whatever it was? And they want to buy a machine. Just tried to make soap to see if they could make a bunch of money off it? Not sure I buy all this.


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## LunaSkye

If this is a fake thread, then I am grateful to everyone who posted since it gave me some insight on what to think about if I wanted to start my own business. I have 2 1/2 months of experience and I am still trying to figure out what oils I like in my soaps after a short cure.

@waisbrod: assuming you're serious, going into business after making 2 batches is foolhardy as you really do need to test the soaps out after a proper cure time among other things. You will ruin your own credibility if the soap does not meet customer's expectations and it's not like you can tell people what to expect from your soaps if you don't even know.


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## Obsidian

LunaSkye said:


> it's not like you can tell people what to expect from your soaps if you don't even know.



I do believe thats why they were asking for a recipe, so they don't have to put in any though or actual research of recipes.


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## Dorymae

Well I don't think this was a "fake post".  It is very common in many countries that a son or daughter starts a business quickly without research with the support of their family.  By support I mean this could be a son whose father owns a store or a chain of stores or spas or another venue that could sell a lot of soap.  So the father tells the son to get the proper equipment and he will buy the soap.  This is very common in parts of India as well as in northern africa.

That said I don't agree with selling soap when you really have no experience or knowledge of the process.  However I doubt highly that my opinion will discourage the practice.


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## LunaSkye

Obsidian said:


> I do believe thats why they were asking for a recipe, so they don't have to put in any though or actual research of recipes.


Asking for recipes is understandable if you want to gather other people's opinions, but I still stand by actually testing the soap for themselves. Some people will ask the maker how the soap was for them and that experience will help them answer the question (i.e.; "I liked how moisturizing the soap was on my skin" or "this has a good cleansing factor for oily skin, but actually use a different soap for my skin"). I wouldn't ever give a soap to anyone if I didn't know what to expect, especially since my skin can be sensitive to certain things and some of my friends have varying levels of sensitivity.


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## Obsidian

Oh, I agree with you. I just think the OP though they could get around all the foot work by asking for a ready to sell recipe. I've seen other people come on the forum with the same attitude. They want to sell but don't want to go through the trouble and expense of making test batches and expect other people to just hand over a good recipe.

I doubt they though about potential customers questions, after all, if they are mass producing they probably won't come in contact with customers. I don't bother trying to talk people like this out of selling soap, they will fail just fine on their own.


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## waisbrod

Right now this guy's company uses sells around 8000 bars a month, he's looking to cut in the cost, his supplier produce nice soaps but quite plain ones, he is the who is going to invest the money and he knows it could take some time. If it's cp or hp soaps, I don't think it will really be cost effective as he is buying a bar In less than a dollar. If no one here knows anything about these small machines, its ok I'll just go look elsewhere. My passion for soaps lies in the handmade ones, my passion for money lies on mass production for this guy. And please, if u don't have any helpfull advice, move on. With all do respect

I'm not coming here to steal your long years knowledge and experience, or ask for ready to made recipes that you worked on for years. I'm just looking to see if anyone about machine made soaps and can help me out.


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## maya

Good luck with that, man.


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## Bex1982

Lots of recipes online. I know nothing at all about machines. I just make small batches by hand.


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## cerelife

With all 'due' respect, I have to agree with everyone else. And of course you are free to take your questions to other forums, but I doubt you will get a different answer. 
You and your benefactor can spend all the money in the world on a machine, but if your soap is sub-par, then your business will fail. People don't buy crappy soap twice; and there are a bunch of us out there selling great stuff that we've worked years to perfect.
So like someone else said - "Good luck with that." 
If you don't care enough to take pride in your products and make sure that your customers are getting your very best, then you shouldn't be in business.

Oh and BTW, I also have a passion for CP soap as well as money. I fund my passion for soap in a very tiny business in which I only hope to pay for my supplies, and I have a full-time job that pays my bills.


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## Susie

waisbrod said:


> If it's cp or hp soaps, I don't think it will really be cost effective as he is buying a bar In less than a dollar. If no one here knows anything about these small machines, its ok I'll just go look elsewhere. My passion for soaps lies in the handmade ones, my passion for money lies on mass production for this guy. And please, if u don't have any helpfull advice, move on. With all do respect



With all due respect, your soap will be plain if you use a machine.  Also, your "passion for soaps" has been all of 2.5 months.  You have no idea how long your soap will stay on a shelf without rancidity or DOS.  You don't have feedback from other people on how they like the soap.  As was stated before, people won't be back for bad soap.

Also, with all due respect, this forum is full of helpful advice.  We are trying to help you understand how un-ready you are to go into soap making business.  We are trying to help you not get sued for everything you are worth(and then some), by not being sure your product is safe before selling.  And we are trying to help you see past the $$ in front of your eyes.


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## Relle

waisbrod said:


> Right now this guy's company uses sells around 8000 bars a month, he's looking to cut in the cost, his supplier produce nice soaps but quite plain ones, he is the who is going to invest the money and he knows it could take some time. If it's cp or hp soaps, I don't think it will really be cost effective as he is buying a bar In less than a dollar. If no one here knows anything about these small machines, its ok I'll just go look elsewhere. My passion for soaps lies in the handmade ones, my passion for money lies on mass production for this guy. And please, if u don't have any helpfull advice, move on. With all do respect
> 
> I'm not coming here to steal your long years knowledge and experience, or ask for ready to made recipes that you worked on for years. I'm just looking to see if anyone about machine made soaps and can help me out.



It's obvious you don't get, what all the people that have spent time replying to your post are trying to convey. So I suggest you do go elsewhere, find your passion for money ,good luck trying to find somewhere else. Bye, Bye.Forum rule - read below. 

10 - "I'm leaving" posts are not allowed. Should you wish to leave the forum simply go. Go now. Leave already... just leave and don't look back. no need to reply


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## waisbrod

I don't wish to leave, I like this forum and it helped me a lot, but in this matter I must have asked the wrong people, obviously everyone here is only into handmade soaps, which is great, I simply wanted to know more about machine made ones. No need to attack me just because I'm asking for help. You can't make assumptions about me cause non of you know me. I'm not planning on make or obviously sell something that I don't know about, this is exactly why I came here and asked for help.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

You are, though! I don't think that the conversation went this way:

Your customer: "Wow, I love this soap. You should make one thousand bars a month and I'll sell them!"

You: "Actually, I have hardly started making soap yet, I am a long way off of selling ANY amounts, let alone thousands. I have made some CP but not any HP let alone looking in to an industrial method. But thanks for the compliment, let's go get an Orange-mocha-frappachino!"​You must have been planning to do it, because you were looking in to it.  The point that many people have made here is that, when you come to even think about selling, there should be almost no soap related questions that you need to ask.


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## Dorymae

You are all wasting your breathe, or well typing, and time.  You can tell by the way he types that English is not his first language and his way of doing things is very common in his culture.  He probably thinks you are all just jealous and will not be able to understand how you believe you are helping him by trying to warn him not to sell.

I've seen this many many times and it is a culture thing.  Sad but true.


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## Lion Of Judah

waisbrod said:


> I don't wish to leave, I like this forum and it helped me a lot, but in this matter I must have asked the wrong people, obviously everyone here is only into handmade soaps, which is great, I simply wanted to know more about machine made ones. No need to attack me just because I'm asking for help. You can't make assumptions about me cause non of you know me. I'm not planning on make or obviously sell something that I don't know about, this is exactly why I came here and asked for help.



Mr. or Mrs./Ms. Waisbrod :

As you continue to look on the internet for soap making forums you will come to see or notice that they are all Handmade soap forums. In mass producing handmade soap there are no machine [ outside of a blender and a oil heater ] to be found . You asked the "wrong" people but got the "RIGHT" answers. Any business that presents a product to the public for use or consumption 1st have to know the life of that product on the shelf , has to guarantee safety and consistency , as well as a quality product . You expected to hear favorable remarks to encourage you in your venture but was not wise enough to see that you did get exactly what you needed , which is experienced insight. 
You went on to say that : "You can't make assumptions about me cause non of you know me. " , well anywhere you go in this big wide world assumptions are made on how you look , how you interact , or on any number of factors , it is just how the world works ..... in this case , it is when you open your mouth that clarity of exactly who and whom you are takes shape , just by the questions you asked , for they highlighted your inexperience in 1. the craft and 2. business. There is no personal attack against you in any way shape or form here on this forum , and in the end you will do exactly as you deem fit concerning your soap making venture. 

In the warmest of love , Bless you .


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## lsg

Don't think it is a good idea to invest a lot of money in something you know little about.  Have you thought about liability insurance, FDA regulations etc.?


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## DeeAnna

Whew, folks. The discussion is starting to get personal and not in a productive way. Take a deep breath, okay? :shh:


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## Lion Of Judah

Dorymae said:


> You are all wasting your breathe, or well typing, and time.  You can tell by the way he types that English is not his first language and his way of doing things is very common in his culture.  He probably thinks you are all just jealous and will not be able to understand how you believe you are helping him by trying to warn him not to sell.
> 
> I've seen this many many times and it is a culture thing.  Sad but true.



i understand it , i have seen it over and over on different forums people who have made little to no soap at all and want to make a "Fortune 500" company overnight .  india and Pakistan and a few others are some of the countries that uses the "machine" method of soap making and i get what they are trying to do in terms of helping themselves and their families ..... but no matter where you go in this world in the name of selling a product , even if it is a peanut or a glass of water you have to know your product and how it will affect the masses . // everything in my bones telling me that this person want to "Mill" soap , which they still got to know what they are doing .


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## judymoody

Dorymae said:


> You are all wasting your breathe, or well typing, and time.  You can tell by the way he types that English is not his first language and his way of doing things is very common in his culture.  He probably thinks you are all just jealous and will not be able to understand how you believe you are helping him by trying to warn him not to sell.
> 
> I've seen this many many times and it is a culture thing.  Sad but true.



Respectfully, while I agree with the majority opinion that it is short sighted and unwise to attempt selling in mass quantities with little to no experience, could you refrain from making assumptions about "his culture."  There is no information on the OP's public profile about where he is from.  I could cite plenty of examples of native English speakers who sell before they are ready and become defensive when they are given prudent advice to the contrary.  Sadly, this is not unique to a particular culture or country.


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## Seawolfe

Nobody here is against machine made soaps - we all use machines in our soaps (stick blenders, mixers, microwaves...). The objection is to selling something before you understand it and have some expertise in it. This is fair, because with soap you can actually hurt someone if you do it wrong.


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## Lion Of Judah

judymoody said:


> Respectfully, while I agree with the majority opinion that it is short sighted and unwise to attempt selling in mass quantities with little to no experience, could you refrain from making assumptions about "his culture."  There is no information on the OP's public profile about where he is from.  I could cite plenty of examples of native English speakers who sell before they are ready and become defensive when they are given prudent advice to the contrary.  Sadly, this is not unique to a particular culture or country.



you are right Judymoody // my apology to all on the forum .


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## waisbrod

I maybe not American, but I'm hardly even near Pakistani or Indian. I know I don't know anything about the things I'm asking, this is exactly the reason I'm asking it. Using the right amount of time, resilience and determination I know I can pull this off no matter what any one you will say. My "culture" is quite famous for its resilience. If I can do this thing in cp or hp soaps, in a cost effective way, this will be my full time job. If I can't find a way to beat his soap maker's price, I will have to go for the machine based one. But no matter what anyone will say here I won't give up without a fight, I plan on spending these 3 months on research, so again, if anyone here Have a helpfull advice (cutting costs on cp/hp soaps and minimal prices per bar and machine based ones) or even an external link to somewhere that can me, I would really appreciate it. If not, thanks for showing me that this way won't be so easy as I first thought.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

In these forums is all that you will need to know about making CP and HP soap.  You'll need to try a lot of it out to see how it works for you, taking the knowledge and mixing it with experience to turn it in to wisdom.  That includes cutting costs and cost per bar examples - a point here is that until you know what sort of oils you need, you won't even know what to cut to cut costs!

As for the machine, have you emailed the maker at all?

That is the only answer I can give you.


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## green soap

I don't think any of us could help you without more information about what type of machine it is that you are considering.  Is it based of milling?  hot process?  the recipes to try would be different in either case.  

Perhaps you can ask the manufacturer for a sample of soap made in the machine you are considering, just to check the appearance and texture of the soap.  I love CP but I dislike the texture of HP.  On the other hand I have seen beautiful looking HP soap posted here, so there must be some tricks to getting HP to feel and look better.  

While it is true that there is no substitute for experience in this craft, one can learn a lot by just reading the vast amount of information in this and other forums.  For example, what oils to keep out to avoid DOS, what properties each oil brings to the soap, and so on.


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## seven

getting back to the original question, what kind of machine are we talking about here? there are all sorts of machines, from the gigantic-factory looking ones, french mill, etc. what kind of soap are you trying to produce? 

now we all know that handmade soaps are going to look totally different than machine produced ones. what is it that your customer is trying to achieve? a variety in designs, shapes, what?

have you look at soapequipment.com? i have no experience with this company, but they have all sorts of tools, systems for mass produced soaps maybe it's worth a look. you can even do handmade soaps in the thousands with the correct system.


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## Bex1982

100% olive oil probably works for every process? I'm not sure. It's simple I guess, just one oil and you could pick a couple scents.


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## Dahila

Dorymae said:


> You are all wasting your breathe, or well typing, and time. You can tell by the way he types that English is not his first language and his way of doing things is very common in his culture. He probably thinks you are all just jealous and will not be able to understand how you believe you are helping him by trying to warn him not to sell.
> 
> I've seen this many many times and it is a culture thing. Sad but true.


 
I came to deeply respect people on this forum, please Dorymae do not break my faith.   English is my second language also, and your post felt like a slap to me...
So dissapointing ...


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## Dorymae

Dahila said:


> I came to deeply respect people on this forum, please Dorymae do not break my faith.   English is my second language also, and your post felt like a slap to me...
> So dissapointing ...



I apologize, I certainly did not mean any disrespect to anyone from anywhere. The only point I was trying to make is that people do things differently in different places.  I certainly was not trying to make anyone feel uncomfortable.  Nor was I trying to imply that doing things differently is wrong, it is just different.


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## fuzz-juzz

Dahila said:


> I came to deeply respect people on this forum, please Dorymae do not break my faith.   English is my second language also, and your post felt like a slap to me...
> So dissapointing ...




While I agree that the OPs intentions are not right I can't agree with some comments. To comment on persons culture or poor English language is a very poor form. Since some of the replies said exactly (and correctly) what the OP wanted to say, it's clear those posters understood what OP actually meant. There was no need to rub it in his/her face. I was laughed at few times for my "bad" English which is not my first language although I live in Australia and it really didn't feel nice. I didn't know soap making knowledge and IQ are measured with how well person knows English?


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## Dorymae

fuzz-juzz said:


> While I agree that the OPs intentions are not right I can't agree with some comments. To comment on persons culture or poor English language is a very poor form. Since some of the replies said exactly (and correctly) what the OP wanted to say, it's clear those posters understood what OP actually meant. There was no need to rub it in his/her face. I was laughed at few times for my "bad" English which is not my first language although I live in Australia and it really didn't feel nice. I didn't know soap making knowledge and IQ are measured with how well person knows English?



Again I can only apologize for any I offended.  I have never been a very tactful person, it is a fault of mine that I am aware of and that I do try to correct. (I very often find my foot in my mouth.)

I do try to think things through before writing or speaking, however not being a very sensitive person on issues (read- never caught on to political correctness - there was none when I was younger)  I find I still occasionally do cause some hurt feelings.  I truly do not wish to cause anyone to become upset, and apologize for any harm or distress I may have caused.


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## Bex1982

Dorymae said:


> Again I can only apologize for any I offended.  I have never been a very tactful person, it is a fault of mine that I am aware of and that I do try to correct. (I very often find my foot in my mouth.)
> 
> I do try to think things through before writing or speaking, however not being a very sensitive person on issues (read- never caught on to political correctness - there was none when I was younger)  I find I still occasionally do cause some hurt feelings.  I truly do not wish to cause anyone to become upset, and apologize for any harm or distress I may have caused.



I think she's apologized enough, no need to drag her through the mud over a mistake.


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## waisbrod

So right now I have decided to give on my machine based soaps and stick to cp soaps. I'm going to 2 batches tomorrow, and the recipe Will be:
25% coconut oil
35% canola oil
35% palm oil
5% olive oil
Water at 35% and lye according to soapcalc will be about 14%. I would be glad for any advice on the recipe but what really need, is to know how to check it out after it cured, like many people here showed me, so, what are the tests and how do I it?


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## judymoody

Canola oil has a relatively short shelf life so I'd reduce that to 10-15% of the recipe and use olive oil for the balance.  To check for lye heaviness you can do the zap test (wet your finger, run it along the soap, have a taste).  If it tastes like soap and doesn't zap your tongue, it's good to go.  Obviously check for even consistency with no lye pockets, crystals, or oozing oils.  For new recipes, reserve at least one bar or a scrap end and label it so you can check its condition at 1 month, 2 months, 6 months, a year, to make sure your soap is not going to become rancid and to determine scent longevity.


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## waisbrod

Well I made it just now, cut down the canola to 15% and even added some grape seed oil, looks great and I hope it will be too, thx for the advice


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## Susie

I am so glad you listened to advice.  This forum is full of helpful folks.  Even if someone does not want to hear what we have to say, it is good, level-headed, sane advice.

And about the english is a second language thing, obviously some people have not read how younger Americans communicate these days.  I did not have any trouble whatsoever reading your posts.  Can't say that for some Americans.


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## waisbrod

Though English is in fact my 2nd language, the last two years I have been living in Thailand, so my English got so bad from talking just English words yet no grammar. It was much better before


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## Dorymae

Waisbrod, I owe you the biggest apology.  Your English is fine.  Actually very very good for a second language, I never meant to imply otherwise.  There are very small nuisances that people can pick up and realize it is a second language for you - but that is absolutely normal.

I'm going to tell you now I lived in Vienna Austria for 2 years and learned German while I was there.  Your English is better than my German ever was!  Now after not speaking for many years, I can understand most of what I hear but I struggle to answer.

I am sorry I made you feel so out of place, please accept my apology.  Oh, and Susie is right.  I have 2 teenagers still at home and at times I can't understand a thing they are saying!


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## cmzaha

I would find out what is the least expensive fat available to you then try to work a recipe around your least expensive oil/fat. I do happen to love canola in soap and have not had it go rancid. I keep superfat no higher than 3% when using a lot of canola. Although I had a bar at 7% superfat for a year with no problems, but a humid enviroment will also make a difference


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## green soap

Just a warning for your next soap batch.  Grape seed oil has a large percentage of linolenic fatty acid and is unfortunately also prone to early rancidity.  I wish it wasn't, I really like it.


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## navigator9

Waisbrod, I think much of people's frustration comes from the fact that we see some beginners look at the art of soapmaking as a simple thing. If you see a recipe, you see oils, water, lye, mix them together.....voila, you get soap, right? Well, yes and no. Those of us who have been making soap for any amount of time know that there is so much *behind* it. Yes, you can throw ingredients together and get a bar of soap. But do you just want to make an average bar of soap? You can already find those on the shelves in any store, and no one wants to pay a premium price for average. Or do you want to make something wonderful? 

In that case, you need to go deeper. Learn about the oils and butters you use. Each one affects your end product in a different way. And there are additives you can use, like sodium lactate to make a harder bar, and rosemary oleoresin extract, which is an anti-oxidant, and many others. Learn about fragrance oils, and essential oils. Are some of them dangerous say, to pregnant women? You should know this. Milk soaps have their own set of rules. Will you use colorants?  There are many different ways to color a bar of soap, some natural, some not. You don't use oxides in the same way you use micas, or clay. 

You need to know about things like trace. What does emulsion look like, light trace, medium, oops, hurry and shove it into the mold. What is ricing? Is there anything that can be done? What caused your soap to turn that funny color?  Can you just pour a bottle of beer and dissolve lye in it, or do you have to do something with the beer first? What caused those streaks? What are those orange spots? What does it mean if your soap looks like brains on top, what's that white powder on top, why is it cracked on top.......oh there are so very many things to know. I could go on and on. You should know what these things are, how to avoid them, and if they happen, how to deal with them. 

It's because we've made soap for a long time, and have probably encountered many if not all of these situations, that it frustrates us when someone comes along and wants to do it all instantly. We know that it's not possible to make good soap in a hurry. You can do it. But you need to slow down. I've had people get annoyed with me because they've asked me how they can make soap,and when I start going into detail, they assume I'm just trying to make it complicated so that they won't attempt it. They were thinking that they could just run home and whip up a batch for themselves. Soapmaking is easy....and it's complicated, at the same time. 

But like I said, you can do it. Study the ingredients. Learn to use Soap Calc. Read all you can. Make practice batches, and tweak them until you have a recipe you can be proud of. Read all you can. When you run up against a wall, ask for help here. And once you've done all that, then you'll begin to understand the frustration of people who have been doing this for a long time, when someone comes along and wants to do it overnight. Many of us consider soapmaking an art to be practiced and perfected. It's something we love and feel passionately about. One day, you may feel the same way. Good luck to you!


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## Dahila

I am a beginner in soaping too, and in English also. I understand why Darymae got upset, and she apologized a few times, and it is good we can move on.  
People here are very helpful.  I do not ask many question I rather put it in a search bar.  Most of them are answered  
I am lucky I do not think of selling my soaps.  I relax and make fancy things for my family and I 


			
				navigator9 said:
			
		

> And once you've done all that, then you'll begin to understand the  frustration of people who have been doing this for a long time, when  someone comes along and wants to do it overnight. Many of us consider  soapmaking an art to be practiced and perfected. It's something we love  and feel passionately about.


It is exactly what waisbord lacking; the passion, the love for a new hobby) It does not matter what we do, we must to come to love it, otherwise nothing makes sense.  Money is nice, and helpful to live but I do not think this forum is only about business and making money....


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## waisbrod

Dorymae, don't worry about it, all is good. 
Right now I'm taking about a month to do one good recipe at low cost, and by doing I'm getting my own small place to work, so then I could really enjoy the art of soap making. But without this first good recipe that I can start working full time in this, I barely have time for that even as a hobby. I am spending right now every second I have to research. Obviously every batch I make teaches so much, and with your help I'm sure I can get there fast enough. My strong will, will overcome any obstacle ahead.


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## CanaDawn

Isn't anyone at all interested in the machine?  All newbie soap stuff (that seems to happen at least weekly) aside, I am somewhat fascinated by the idea of a machine into which ingredients can be poured and bars of soap obtained at the far end - it sounds like a Rube Goldberg delight!  At the output discussed, I can't imagine it being a big contraption...so it is to homemade soap what a bread maker is to baking?


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## Dorymae

The type of machine he is talking about is industrial.  It uses a whole different method of making soap. They are in the ten's of thousands of dollars and I don't think anyone here has any experience with them.

Now if you want large production handcrafted soap equipment you can check out http://soapequipment.com/ .   You could still spend a good chunk of change for a full set up but this would be more in line with the handcrafted/artisan soaps that we make.


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## soapandco

Just curious, will the soaps eventually be marketed as "handmade" or "handcrafted"?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

If you pour stuff in one end, press a button and soap comes out of the other - I would not call that hand made, hand crafted or anything to do with hands (unless it was a tough cleansing soap for hands!)

The stuff on the link from Dory is I think the limits.  Anything beyond that and you are away from hand-made.

As for the soap making machines - here is about the most information I can find.  Understandable why the OP wanted help, as this gives nothing.  As I said, if anyone really wanted to know how they work, they should enquire by the firm for a demo

http://www.sakunengineers.in/bath-soap-making-machine.html


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## kylie_au

Exactly!  Absolutely  defeats the purpose of handmade.
Frankly, if people want machine made detergent soap just direct them to the detergent isle at the shops.

Once you have heaps of experience it is possible to make a lot of cp soap quickly - make large batches, but its not for the feint hearted.


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## Susie

OK, after looking at the choices of machines they offer, I think that particular machine takes milled soap and presses it into bars.  It contains a "worm" that moves material from one end to the other, and I am pretty sure I see a portion that could be where soap shavings could be pressed, possibly through a die of some sort, then cut behind it.  I could be wrong, but they offer mixing machines and other things, so I don't think this is the "pour ingredients in one end and get soap out the other" machine the OP was hoping for.  I think this is one portion of a factory set up.


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## CanaDawn

kylie_au said:


> Exactly!  Absolutely  defeats the purpose of handmade.
> Frankly, if people want machine made detergent soap just direct them to the detergent isle at the shops.



If you are putting in soap ingredients, you won't get detergent coming out the other side.

I think what needs to be said is simply, and without outrage or slurs: "This forum deals with handmade soap, not machine-produced, so your questions will best be answered in other places." With lots of smiley faced good cheer, because in no way does someone producing machine made soap elsewhere have an effect on your small hand-made market, which is a totally different client base.


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## dixiedragon

I think the best bet would be the call the company that makes the machine. There is probably some kind of manual available, and perhaps it contains recipes?

businesswise - you may want to consider some kind of contract or something. If you make this large outlay and this person decides not to buy your soap, what happens then?


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## girlishcharm2004

I would like to point out that one person gave advice to make your soap from the cheapest oils you can find (or something to that extent). I would say that you need to consider your goals. First, is your goal to have fun (hobby) or to eventually start a business? If it's the latter, then you will want to find practice making soaps that fit your niche. Why make soaps with a particular ingredient that would never be acceptable with your ideal customer? However, finding your niche in business is a whole other aspect. Right now it sounds like you need to experiment. When I started, I browsed the Internet for other people's top ten selling soaps and looked at which ones interested me. That helped me learn what types of soaps that appeal to me and then give me a start on the research of how to make a soap with, say, goats milk. I have also found that it's better to find as much info as you can through articles, than through a forum because articles won't attack you should you unknowingly offend someone with your questions. Only when you can't find an article written about it, come here.


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## HoneyLady

As far as *I* am aware, there are no machines that allow you to put ingredients in one end, and finished bars come out the other.  There ARE different types of milling and extruding machines that cost a great deal.  But you will have to have a great deal of "raw", un-milled soap material on hand to feed into those machines, and they seem wasteful to me.

 If your benefactor is looking at large scale production, he needs to know that you must start small, and build your way up.  Very few things work well going all out first.  He may be better off investing that money in mixers, drying racks and molds.  *But you won't know until you get started, what will work best for you.  *

 Depending on your location, you may need to inform your benefactor that starting small is in HIS best interests -- if HE sells it, HE bears the liability if someone is harmed.  Besides, starting small gives him a chance to build up anticipation and interest in your soap!  I suspect he is looking at machinery so he can immediately have volume -- and he needs a reliably quality product before he can up the volume.  As we say here in the US, "he is putting his cart in front of his horse".  (He has things in the wrong order of operation.)

 fuzz-juzz, I had to laugh at your comment about English usage.  I have a friend from the UK, and I discovered quickly that in the UK, US, Canada, & Oz, we may all speak "English", but we are NOT all speaking the same language!   All y'all would laugh at my Texas drawl.

 Dory, I speak German, too.  I bet your Viennese is different from the Tyrolese I heard in Salzburg!  And trust me, only the Swiss speak Schweitzer Deutsch! I spoke in my reasonably fluent Hoch Deutsch, and they answered in English.  :wink:  Ganz genau! 

 Good Luck, waisbrod!  Keep us posted.
 ~Honey Lady~


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## waisbrod

well, as i researched more about those machines, i found out that its not even close to what i had in mind.. i just wanted to make handmade soaps with some sort of machine that would reduce human error. turns out there is none, maybe should invent 
for now my plan is making CP in very large batches, i looked up for all the things i need and with some time and effort, it can be done. until than im just trying out many recipes by my budget. who is quite low actually. so that means many of palm oil, less on olive and coconut.
im going to build my self a big mold, soap cutters and more. 
i already told my benefactor that i will also need a budget for experimenting and having fun with new things. 
he is due to come to meet with me next month, so i will already have many samples for him.
thank you everyone for your willingness to help me, warms my heart to find good people that will help and ask nothing in return. 
will keep you guys posted


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## Shalisk

I want to comment so bad. But it would not help.

We just had a similar thread about soaping / selling too soon. Good luck people.


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## navigator9

Waisbrod, I don't know how large you intend your batches to be, but you may be interested in seeing what's involved. Here are a couple of videos of a young woman who makes larger batches.

http://youtu.be/q6fjQDgpiy8?list=UUMsQ78CkU5UtkA73jGcom3A

http://youtu.be/PS8HEAUaNwg?list=UUMsQ78CkU5UtkA73jGcom3A


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## DeeAnna

To add a couple more videos about large-scale production to Navigator's list:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_aYS3jOPe8[/ame]
and
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIP4Ml1VeeE[/ame]

Speaking from an engineering point of view, the process to make CP soap is far too complicated to do in a single machine. The videos of medum-scale soap making are proof of this.


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## soapfan2012

I do soap for fun, but sometimes it comes out not as supposed, though it looks very fancy. as from engineer's point of view(I am an engineer) I would like to see "the machine" if anyone can provide a photo/link/video. it is interesting for me to understand what was meant by an equipment for 1000$, it may seem big money but I cannot think of a real equipment for so little money. So maybe it is still a device to make the hand soap making somewhat easier or productive...


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## Dorymae

I believe he was referring to machines like below.  These are not $1000 machines these are tens of thousands.


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## DeeAnna

The OP said in Post 67 that after some research, the machine is not what he/she thought it was. 

You'll not find an all-in-one machine that takes oils and lye in one end and finished soap out the other. It's just not practical from a materials engineering and process engineering point of view. It is the rough equivalent of mashing your refrigerator, oven, mixer, stove, and kitchen sink into a single gadget. Sure, it might be possible, but is it practical?

The "all in one" machines I've read about do something quite different -- you pour ready-made soap noodles or flakes into a hopper at one end and the machine spits finished bars out the other, sometimes even wrapped. That's much more practical to do in a single machine.

edit: Susie's pics show examples of what I'm talking about -- these look like they are machines to mix the soap with fragrance, etc. followed by extruding the soap into a ribbon or other shape. The process can be extended by bolting on yet more machinery to cut bars from the extruded ribbon and packaging the bars.


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## aprilprichard

I'm new to making soap, but not to learning about it. I've spent every spare moment I've had for the past four years learning about soap. I've read four books (more than once),read countless blogs and forums, and logged more time on YouTube than I'll ever admit! Haha! I can understand why you all get offended at someone trying to make money quickly off soap. Soap making is an art. It's something from the heart, something you all do been with monetary loss. My two cents on this thread is this....if you're looking to mass produce, then consistency should be a consideration. A machine an make a consistent product only if given consistent ingredients. Without using your chosen ingredients on a snake scale many times, you cannot be sure you will have consistency in the final product. The same oils from different suppliers behave differently, same for fragrance oils and even lye. It won't be to your advantage to start big. You must find consistent and trusted sources for ingredients first. That requires starting small, or your losses will be big. Good luck in your endeavors! Don't be discouraged! Soap makers have a deep love and respect for their art, and don't want to see anyone consider it as a get rich path. After all, it's the goal of making money that eradicated the homemade soap, in favor of mass produced detergent bars, anyway! 


Sent from my iPhone using Soap Making App....love this app!

Oh my goodness! The typos in my post! Small scale, not snake scale! Haha


Sent from my iPhone using Soap Making App....love this app!


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## Zoeybean

judymoody said:


> Canola oil has a relatively short shelf life so I'd reduce that to 10-15% of the recipe and use olive oil for the balance. To check for lye heaviness you can do the zap test (wet your finger, run it along the soap, have a taste). If it tastes like soap and doesn't zap your tongue, it's good to go. Obviously check for even consistency with no lye pockets, crystals, or oozing oils. For new recipes, reserve at least one bar or a scrap end and label it so you can check its condition at 1 month, 2 months, 6 months, a year, to make sure your soap is not going to become rancid and to determine scent longevity.


I haven't made soap yet (have had fun shopping though). Just last night I printed a chart of oil-shelf life-SAP-usage-oil properties-and attributes and I must say it felt good to read your post and recognize your canola post LOL (don't take much to thrill me) and
  good idea to reserve a bar and take notes...thanks for that..


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