# Nobody wants to try shampoo bars unless they're free...



## KiwiMoose (Jan 11, 2022)

I have put out an APB on my social media asking people why they don't seem to warm to shampoo bars.  I have a bucket load of foaming apple here (all the way from the USA) that needs using up, but I don't want want to throw good money after bad making shampoo bars that are, quite frankly, very expensive to make.  I have myself and my hubby and sister in law that use them regularly and that's it. And i only need to make circa 5-6 bars per year to service just us three.

Excuses people use not to try them are: 
1) My hair is long and thick ( and I guess there's an implication that it won't do the job?)
2) They go gooey in the shower ( mine don't - but I remember the Lush ones used to when we bought those)
3) It will ruin my coloured hair
4) I have sensitivities
5) I have grey hair and need special shampoo ( is this a thing?)
6) I don't want to buy a (big) bar only to find out that I don't like it, so if I could get a little sample I might try it (my cost price is just over $3 for a 40g bar, so I don't fancy giving a truckload of those away!)
7) I'm fussy with shampoo and i like my salon-bought brand (even though it costs them nearly $40 per bottle)
8) I only spend $3 per bottle on shampoo so i don't want to spend $12 on a shampoo bar
9) How do you store the bar between washes? ( genuine question, but one wonders what they are imagining...taking it out of the shower each time and putting it back in again next time you need it? I mean - where do you usually store your shampoo?)

Can anyone help me out here with responses to some of these questions? Thoughts? Ideas? Anything?


----------



## Ford (Jan 12, 2022)

Mmm, make a half size bar. Priced 60% of the full size bar. Put both sizes out. You'll sell a lot of half's initially. But people will switch to full bars. Once they get the results.


----------



## CreativeWeirdo (Jan 12, 2022)

I can answer some of these questions; I used to work in a hair salon at their front desk and I had to learn about ALL the products.  But I think the biggest problem is that people just don't know HOW to use a shampoo bar.  Maybe a video tutorial/introduction to just how shampoo bars work would help take away some of the intimidation.

1)  Course, thick, long hair takes a lot of effort to wash because there is just so much of it and you have to get the shampoo everywhere without missing any space.  I liquid shampoo SEEMS easier because it's already easy to spread.

2)  I've heard that complaint about regular soap bars, so it's really just about educating them about proper storage of bar soaps to begin with.

3)  Coloured hair can be tricky; most commercial shampoos, specially current salon shampoos, are being formulated to protect colour in hair.  It's more about something being less stripping as something to protect the hair colour.  Previous shampoos of yesteryear contained ingredients that were very stripping to the hair.  The way permanent colour works, is that a base (ammonia/bleach) penetrates through the hair strand and "removes" the natural hair colour, and deposits the new colour in it's place.  Because hair isn't alive, it won't repair itself, unlike skin.  Once that damage is done, it won't be undone.  And once there is damage, it's easier for the damage to get worse.  Like if you get tear in your sweater, if you leave it alone, it will be okay; if you pull at the loose strand, it will get worse and unravel.  That's why if you have split ends, you need to have them cut off or they will split even more up the hair shaft; like a run in a stocking.  So, because the ammonia has already created "holes" in the hair, those "holes" can be where the colour is stripped away with harsher shampoos.  Again, educating people around ingredients could help that, but you can't force people to learn if they don't want to.

4)  Similar to #3, it's only recently that shampoos are using ingredients that are less aggressive and agitating.  If they were more knowledgeable in ingredients, it might help.  But sometimes if you have allergies, you stick with what you know doesn't create a reaction; just to be safe rather than being sorry.

5)  Grey hair is a different hair texture to natural hair.  It is often courser and dryer.  People with grey hair often need high hydration shampoos.

6)  That's just being entitled.  *EDIT* I like @Ford 's idea!

7)  This is a culmination of much of the answers above.  Salon shampoos are a higher concentration than drug store shampoos.  To pull arbitrary numbers out of the air purely as an analogy; you could think of it as the salon product having 40% water, where the drug store product could be 90% water.  (Again, those specific numbers are arbitrary).  You will need less of the expensive stuff and it would last a lot longer.  Also, many people find they can go longer between washes when they use the higher quality stuff, extending the life of the product even more.  I got a lot of free [very, VERY expensive] shampoo that I'm still using today, five years after I left.  And I can easily go another five, if not more.  One 250ml bottle lasts like 2 years.

8)  I mean, everyone has different financial situations.  I'd probably say the same thing if someone tried to sell me a Luis Vuitton bag!  But we can't satisfy everyone; these just might not be the people you get to please this time, and that's okay!

9)  It might depend on living situations.  For example, residence/dorm life, you share the bathing facilities and you have to bring your stuff every time you use it, and you have to take it with you.  Or, they may not have the storage space.  Maybe a soap dish would be the answer?

I hope I was somewhat helpful in giving one perspective.  Again, I think it really just comes down to people's general lack of knowledge regarding the subject.  I mean, there are people all over the internet that don't think bar soaps are hygienic!  I'm not sure how active you are in using social media with your soaps, but if I were you, I would try and spread knowledgeable information so consumers can feel impowered to make an INFORMED conclusion, instead of a subjective one.


----------



## cerelife (Jan 12, 2022)

This may not help, but I can answer 1 and 3 as to why I don't use shampoo bars.
Also, I've only used Lush shampoo bars and I love the concept, but they are a hard NO for me. Your shampoo bars are probably much better, but I would still be hesitant.
1. I have a lot of hair - waist length and curly. It's not that shampoo bars can't do the job; more that they are kind of pain in the behind with long curly hair. It takes longer to use and little pieces of the bar often broke off in my hair. So longer to use; longer to rinse; and I'd still sometimes find stray bits of shampoo bar in my dry hair if I wasn't very careful about rinsing.
3. This was the deal breaker for me. I spend a small fortune at the salon to have my hair colored and glossed. Glossing coats the strands to give a lot of shine. Shampoo bars didn't affect my color so much, but they DID strip the gloss off in a hurry. 
I don't know how helpful this may be, but maybe it answers some of your questions.


----------



## KiwiMoose (Jan 12, 2022)

CreativeWeirdo said:


> I can answer some of these questions; I used to work in a hair salon at their front desk and I had to learn about ALL the products.  But I think the biggest problem is that people just don't know HOW to use a shampoo bar.  Maybe a video tutorial/introduction to just how shampoo bars work would help take away some of the intimidation.
> 
> 1)  Course, thick, long hair takes a lot of effort to wash because there is just so much of it and you have to get the shampoo everywhere without missing any space.  I liquid shampoo SEEMS easier because it's already easy to spread.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for taking the time to write a detailed response. 

My older sister _is_ a hairdresser and she won't use them.  I'm pretty sure if I had long hair that I wouldn't use them either tbh. Especially if i had your hair @cerelife!  My two younger sisters buy expensive shampoo from the salon and are 'shampoo snobs'.  Maybe I should give one of them ( the slightly less snobby one) a small sample to try.

However, if i had short/medium hair I'd be totally for shampoo bars!  I mean, i do and i am!  Zero waste.  Well researched ingredients arguably better than your average shampoo, and possibly better than, or at least as good as some higher-end shampoos.  My hair is dry, thick and coarse and I have perfected this recipe so that it is ideal for my hair.  My hair is coloured and I notice no difference in colour fade between my bars and my old shampoo for 'colour-treated hair'.

Anyway, I really don't know if I can be bothered doping all the marketing required to change people's minds about shampoo bars, when soap is comparatively easy to sell and there is less outlay and more profit in it.

Those of you who do sell shampoo bars, how did you get your clientele and were they as difficult as my lot are to begin with?


----------



## Megan (Jan 12, 2022)

People who don't like shampoo bars are like @cerelife probably jaded by their experiences with LUSH bars which are full of sulfates and pretty cruddy for your hair. 
I also don't like Lush's recipe. ESPECIALLY when combined with their conditioner bar which was horrid for my hair (made my hair grease city a day later and didn't help with comb through AT ALL)
The going gooey is a big turn off for shampoo bars or soap in general, and should be fixed by a well draining soap dish. I have a wonderful covered dish from ethique that I use (their bars are full of sulfates as well but for some reason work pretty well for me). 

I agree with making a video about the bars showing how to use and store and highlighting some pros would be a good idea.


----------



## Momskaputt (Jan 12, 2022)

In regard to #5.  I'm blonde, going gray (or really more silver), and I use purple shampoo to combat brassiness.  I don't want the silver to turn yucky yellow.  I don't think it's recommended to use the purple shampoo every time you wash your hair, because it'll turn it purple.  I don't have any problem with that though.


----------



## Misschief (Jan 12, 2022)

I've been making and using shampoo bars for about 3 years now. Personally, I love them! I've been selling them at the market for the past three years as well. Last year, I was rather negligent and didn't make many because pressing them hurt my wrists (de Quervain's tenosynovitis) but now I have a press (look out market!)

I have several customers who absolutely love them! One buys them 4 at a time if I have that many in stock. Late last fall, I tried a new recipe (DIY Pourable Shampoo bars) and asked my neighbour, who is a hairdresser, to try one and she got back to me a couple of weeks later letting me know that she was VERY impressed. She especially commented on the amount of lather, something she didn't expect. (She's used LUSH bars before.)

Like you, @KiwiMoose, I'm trying to come up with ways of getting people to try them because I've found that the biggest hurdle seems to be the price. To that end, I've purchased a small press; I'm making 20 gram bars as sample sizes and am planning to sell them for $5.00 each. I figure that each bar should last for about 15-20 washes and that should give customers a good idea of what they're all about.


----------



## Michelle0803 (Jan 12, 2022)

KiwiMoose said:


> I have put out an APB on my social media asking people why they don't seem to warm to shampoo bars.  I have a bucket load of foaming apple here (all the way from the USA) that needs using up, but I don't want want to throw good money after bad making shampoo bars that are, quite frankly, very expensive to make.  I have myself and my hubby and sister in law that use them regularly and that's it. And i only need to make circa 5-6 bars per year to service just us three.
> 
> Excuses people use not to try them are:
> 1) My hair is long and thick ( and I guess there's an implication that it won't do the job?)
> ...



I have had decent success with Shampoo bars so here's 
1.  my customers with long hair have reported back that they have less need for conditioner and that their hair also dries better.  My hair is short, so ... however people with long hair that I have had test these bars have all reported the same things. 
2.  I have not experienced gooey, however, we do store ours on a soap dish and always recommend that they store on a soap dish in between uses.  We even sell the "mesh" soap dishes which are very affordable. 
3.  I don't think that there is anything you can do to convince someone that any shampoo won't ruin their colored hair.  
4.  As far as sensitivities, the only thing that you can do is explain what is in your shampoo bar. 
5.  I have greying hair and shampoo works just fine.  However, I have heard of some people with grey or greying hair using a shampoo with a bluing agent in it.  I'm not sure what it does.  I think that these folks fall into the same category as the colored hair folks. 
6.  I do offer a small-size bar for just a few dollars and have noticed that most of the people that have purchased those have come back to me telling me that they loved it and have purchased full-size bars. 
7.  and 8.  these folks are both ends of the spectrum on being set in their ways.  
9.  we recommend the mesh soap dish or just the coated metal shower organizer.  

Shampoo bars really appeal to environmentally-conscious folks.  They love the fact that there is far less waste and that they totally control the amount of shampoo.  I play on that A LOT  with great success.  However, this is a matter of knowing my audience.  We sell a lot at farmer's markets so a lot of our customers there are already eco-friendly types.   I have also found that my customers love the fact that shampoo bars take up less space in the shower/bath and have zero waste.    I display mine on our table at shows with a sign that simply says "shampoo bars" and I have very small size bars out in a tin as samples for them to smell and touch.  

I do make a couple of bars with marshmallow root powder in them which is said to be a natural detangler.  I have recommended those to the customers with long hair and they have reported back great success.  

Good luck @KiwiMoose.  I hope you find success with your shampoo bars.



Misschief said:


> I've been making and using shampoo bars for about 3 years now. Personally, I love them! I've been selling them at the market for the past three years as well. Last year, I was rather negligent and didn't make many because pressing them hurt my wrists (de Quervain's tenosynovitis) but now I have a press (look out market!)
> 
> I have several customers who absolutely love them! One buys them 4 at a time if I have that many in stock. Late last fall, I tried a new recipe (DIY Pourable Shampoo bars) and asked my neighbour, who is a hairdresser, to try one and she got back to me a couple of weeks later letting me know that she was VERY impressed. She especially commented on the amount of lather, something she didn't expect. (She's used LUSH bars before.)
> 
> ...


Your bars look a lot like mine, but I don't color mine.  I love the blue bar.  May I ask what you are using to color your bars?


----------



## Misschief (Jan 12, 2022)

Michelle0803 said:


> Your bars look a lot like mine, but I don't color mine.  I love the blue bar.  May I ask what you are using to color your bars?


I used Bath Bomb colours; they're water soluble and don't stain.


----------



## TheGecko (Jan 12, 2022)

1) My hair is long and thick ( and I guess there's an implication that it won't do the job?)

--->  I have very long hair, down to my waist (I know, I'm 60 and I'm not supposed to).  Until I get sick several years back, it used to be really thick and coarse and I had tried shampoo/conditioner 'bars' and it was just a PITA to get it worked through all the hair.  But my hair is a lot thinner now and it would probably work better.

2) They go gooey in the shower ( mine don't - but I remember the Lush ones used to when we bought those)

--->  Ingredients and storage.

3) It will ruin my coloured hair

---> When I colored my hair, I used products made for colored hair. You might want to research into this to find out what the difference is and if your formula meets or exceeds.

4) I have sensitivities

--->  More and more people do these days which is why they are turning to artisan products.  Commercial products contain a lot of chemicals to make up for cheap ingredients and extend shelf life.

5) I have grey hair and need special shampoo ( is this a thing?)

---> Yes it is. I have 'deer' hair...all different shades of 'blonde' plus brown and even black strands. It's mostly silver now, except for this weird, one inch section of almost solid brown underneath bottom center. Anyhoo...I get my shampoo/condition from my hairdresser...I don't know the brand name, I get it in the same gallon jugs she gets because it's cheaper that way and there is a difference in how my hair looks. The silver glistens as opposed to looking dull.

6) I don't want to buy a (big) bar only to find out that I don't like it, so if I could get a little sample I might try it (my cost price is just over $3 for a 40g bar, so I don't fancy giving a truckload of those away!)

---> So don't...give them away that is.  I have some friends who do a lot of traveling for work.  They love my soap, but worry about carrying and leaving their soap behind so I make 'travel size' bars of soap.  I bought the 9 Cavity Silicone Guest Rectangle Mold (1.12oz) from BB and make a little extra batter and Bob's your uncle.  I just wrap them in paper, but have been looks at little travel soap cases.  They cost a few pennies to make and I sell them for $2.00.

7) I'm fussy with shampoo and i like my salon-bought brand (even though it costs them nearly $40 per bottle)

---> That's okay.

8) I only spend $3 per bottle on shampoo so i don't want to spend $12 on a shampoo bar

---> That's okay too.

9) How do you store the bar between washes? ( genuine question, but one wonders what they are imagining...taking it out of the shower each time and putting it back in again next time you need it? I mean - where do you usually store your shampoo?)

---> In a closed bottle so I don't get water in it and ruin it.  It same seem like a no brainer to you because you make them, but to someone who no experience with them, it's a genuine question (and concern).  We know that artisan soap is a different than commercial soaps...it's why we tells folks to use soap dishes that allow the soap to dry between uses so it lasts longer.  It's one thing to pay $6.00 to 8.00 for a 4oz to 5oz bar of soap, but now you're asking me to pay $10.00-$15.00 for a 3oz bar of shampoo?  Darn straight I want to know how I'm going to store it so it doesn't just melt away in the shower![/QUOTE]


----------



## Obsidian (Jan 12, 2022)

I found shampoo bars expensive and inconvenient to use/store.
Unless someone is looking to reduce plastic waste, it may just be a difficult product to sell.


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Jan 12, 2022)

Momskaputt said:


> I don't want the silver to turn yucky yellow.





TheGecko said:


> I have grey hair and need special shampoo ( is this a thing?)


From the time DH went from Salt & Pepper to almost completely snow white he used my *PALM OLIVE SOAP* for hair & body. Sometimes he followed up with an ACV rinse but most of the time he didn't bother. Rinsing with increasingly cold water for as long as it takes to remove all the soap residue did the trick. That soap left his hair clean, manageable and shiny without a trace of yellow!






KiwiMoose said:


> Those of you who do sell shampoo bars, how did you get your clientele and were they as difficult as my lot are to begin with?


Two Things:
1) I label my lye-based shampoo bars and liquid shampoo as "HAIR & BODY SHAMPOO". Customers like the convenience of just one bar/bottle of soap in the shower/tub.

2) Educate your customers about what to expect from soap as shampoo.
*EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT SHAMPOO BARS*

You also may find *this thread* helpful.


----------



## cmzaha (Jan 12, 2022)

Michelle0803 said:


> 5.  I have greying hair and shampoo works just fine.  However, I have heard of some people with grey or greying hair using a shampoo with a bluing agent in it. I'm not sure what it does. I think that these folks fall into the same category as the colored hair folks
> Good luck @KiwiMoose.


Bluing or Purple coloring in shampoo whitens gray or white hair. It does Not work as a colorant it just whitens yellow cast the same as bluing in your wash water will do for whites. In fact, after WW11 when hair products were hard for salons to acquire they would use Mrs. Stewart's Bluing for hair rinses on their gray and white hair customers. I still buy and use it in my wash. This is why they make blue rinses but I always hated using leave on blue rinses such as White Minx because they would stain customers' hair if they had snow-white hair, so I preferred to dilute the rinse or use Mrs. Stewart's Bluing. 

When I made shampoo bars I colored the ones for my use with purple colorant to help brighten and ward of yellow tinge in my white hair. I quit making them for sale because I simply could not sell them no matter how I tried to promote them. I had a few customers that loved them so I told them to just special order them from me when they need shampoo bars.


----------



## Rsapienza (Jan 12, 2022)

I agree with others that feel this is a niche market product. The die hard “environment” folks. They can be a little awkward to use, but after getting used to them, I have no issues. I don’t have any issue with storing them in the shower. I keep mine on a soap dish in the back corner of the shower and they are never soggy, mushy, or even wet for that matter. They seem to dry out well. Maybe signage highlighting “eco-friendly”, “reduce plastic waste”, etc…would help.


----------



## CelestialLizzie (Jan 12, 2022)

I haven't used shampoo bars specifically, but I've used general bars of soap to wash my hair - which gives me the exact reasons why I am very hesitant on using shampoo bars, so I'll give you my two cents if you'd like.


KiwiMoose said:


> 1) My hair is long and thick ( and I guess there's an implication that it won't do the job?)


I have long and especially thick hair (when I go to the salon to dye my hair, they literally need to use enough dye for 3 people and the technician usually has to stop halfway through to go get more), and when I have used a bar of soap to wash my hair, I have so much that it was really difficult to clean through all of that thick curtain of hair evenly AND then also rinse all of it out, too. The rinsing part especially, since it always takes so long to rinse anything out of my hair in general, since I have so much.


KiwiMoose said:


> 2) They go gooey in the shower ( mine don't - but I remember the Lush ones used to when we bought those)





KiwiMoose said:


> 9) How do you store the bar between washes? ( genuine question, but one wonders what they are imagining...taking it out of the shower each time and putting it back in again next time you need it? I mean - where do you usually store your shampoo?)


I'll be real, but I always thought that the people complaining about mushy bars were being a little silly . I get mot people don't like bar soap in general so maybe they think its a lot more of an issue than it really is, but a lot of people don't seem to get that a bar of soap isn't made to just sit in a pool of liquid for days on end. In the shower, you're not supposed to put it under where the water will dribble down on it - I keep my bars in the opposite corner on that little ridge in a soap dish; I also stand my bar up (horizontally or vertically) so it's not sitting in water, which I'll also pour out a lot during a shower. I know a soap saver is better but I saw a soap dish on etsy with little bats and glitter in it and it was just so cute that I'll gladly pour out all the water on a regular basis.


KiwiMoose said:


> 3) It will ruin my coloured hair


That's... yeah, I don't know what you could do about that, honestly. I don't know what's in shampoos for colored hair that makes it special. Although in my experience you have to care a LOT more to worry about what shampoos you use if you have like bright colored hair, especially lighter colors, neons, and pastels, while when my hair was black didn't seem to change no matter what shampoo I used. When my hair was neon green I had to re dye it just about every week if I used regular shampoo.


KiwiMoose said:


> 5) I have grey hair and need special shampoo ( is this a thing?)


Yes, but some people care about this more than others. I have a lot of older women in my family that don't care about whatever shampoo they use, although apparently their hair is more dry and delicate than it was before they went grey - although one of my grandmothers uses a purple shampoo for blondes (purple because it helps with brassy tones) that her hairdresser told her was also good for grey hair.


KiwiMoose said:


> 6) I don't want to buy a (big) bar only to find out that I don't like it, so if I could get a little sample I might try it (my cost price is just over $3 for a 40g bar, so I don't fancy giving a truckload of those away!)
> 7) I'm fussy with shampoo and i like my salon-bought brand (even though it costs them nearly $40 per bottle)
> 8) I only spend $3 per bottle on shampoo so i don't want to spend $12 on a shampoo bar


Dude, I relate to all those fronts. Lush sells those bars for like $13 dollars a bar, which, I don't know how long those last, but a lot of soaps I'd use on my body sometimes don't last longer than a month (sometimes less), and with how thick my hair is, I don't think it'd last long. I wouldn't be opposed to trying a proper shampoo bar just to try it since I've heard they're really nice, but, emphasis on _try_. I'd rather buy a half bar like Ford said just to try it. Maybe hand out some smallish free samples to people, be that at craft shows or if you sell them online.
I'm also super fussy about shampoo especially above all other products (which is actually why I never even had an inclination to make shampoo bars, which is the opposite for a lot of people on here) because I have hecka dandruff otherwise, and although tea tree clears it up like magic, it makes my scalp so painfully sensitive that its almost tear inducing just to brush my hair, so for a long time I was switching between showering people in flakes whenever I turned my head to having a mental breakdown if I wanted to brush my hair, until I found a shampoo that eradicated my serious dandruff problem without the use tea tree, (Head and Shoulders Smooth and Silky) and I actually recently tried to switch over to a more expensive version of the same exact shampoo by the same company that has argon oil and rose essence in it, and I regret it so much because it doesn't clean as nicely or make my hair feel as smooth, so I'm scared to step out of my comfort zone, but I'd still be open to try a single use serving of a shampoo bar to see if it makes my hair feel nicer - if it works, I might have a bar around to use on special occasion.

Also, sorry for the essay I wrote, but I hope it helps you in some way.


----------



## KiwiMoose (Jan 12, 2022)

WOW!  You guys are the best!  thank you for all your input. I just made some more shampoo bars last night and have made some smaller ones for trial sizes.  I'm still not inclined to give them away (unless it's to a regular customer who I know is genuine) so I may well take a few to the next market and sell them for $3 apiece for people to try.


----------



## AliOop (Jan 12, 2022)

Michelle0803 said:


> I do make a couple of bars with marshmallow root powder in them which is said to be a natural detangler.  I have recommended those to the customers with long hair and they have reported back great success.


Would you be willing to share how much marshmallow root powder you add to yours? I have some and would love to add it, but hesitate since I don't want to create bug food or change the pH too much. Thanks!



cmzaha said:


> When I made shampoo bars I colored the ones for my use with purple colorant to help brighten and ward of yellow tinge in my white hair.


Can you share which purple colorant you used for your shampoo bars, and how much you added? Thanks!


----------



## justjacqui (Jan 12, 2022)

We have three long haired people in our house and love using shampoo and conditioner bars. We haven't purchased liquid shampoo in a few years.  I think they work well with long hair. 

If you are making bars with mild surfactants (no SLS) then there shouldn't be an issue with it stripping hair colour. Most coloured hair shampoos as just sulfate free shampoos maybe with a silicone additive to help maintain colour.

When people claim they have sensitivities, ask what they are sensitive too. Your bars are probably better than the commercial liquid shampoos. If I remember correctly from some of the other threads, you were creating bars that didn't have some of the main ingredients that cause sensitivity such as Cocamidopropyl Betaine and SLS. 

I think there are some people who will never change to a bar no matter how good it is.

Promote that they reduce plastic waste and that a small bar goes a long way. Commercial Liquid Shampoos are generally about 80% water. Although I am not a fan of "free from" marketing it might help to promote that they are sulfate free (unlike LUSH) and similar.    

If you are selling at a market create a little flyer with how to use a shampoo bar. If you can get someone to draw a few pictures (comic style) it might help with people who are reluctant because they don't know how to use them.

Hope this helps


----------



## Catscankim (Jan 12, 2022)

Never used a shampoo bar, but I can speak for the length of hair. I have long hair. I only wash my head and rinse and squeeze everything through, so I don't use much more shampoo than anybody else with shorter hair. Then I condition the whole length of my hair.

My hair is not particularly thick, but it used to be. I just always washed my hair this way. At one point I had all of my hair cut off for Locks of Love and she mentioned how healthy my hair was and I told her how I washed it. "YES! That is how you should wash long hair." Basically shampoo should not touch it.


----------



## Michelle0803 (Jan 12, 2022)

Misschief said:


> I used Bath Bomb colours; they're water soluble and don't stain.


thank you!



cmzaha said:


> Bluing or Purple coloring in shampoo whitens gray or white hair. It does Not work as a colorant it just whitens yellow cast the same as bluing in your wash water will do for whites. In fact, after WW11 when hair products were hard for salons to acquire they would use Mrs. Stewart's Bluing for hair rinses on their gray and white hair customers. I still buy and use it in my wash. This is why they make blue rinses but I always hated using leave on blue rinses such as White Minx because they would stain customers' hair if they had snow-white hair, so I preferred to dilute the rinse or use Mrs. Stewart's Bluing.
> 
> When I made shampoo bars I colored the ones for my use with purple colorant to help brighten and ward of yellow tinge in my white hair. I quit making them for sale because I simply could not sell them no matter how I tried to promote them. I had a few customers that loved them so I told them to just special order them from me when they need shampoo bars.


Thank you so much!  I knew there was a reason behind it, but for the life of me just could not recall it.



AliOop said:


> Would you be willing to share how much marshmallow root powder you add to yours? I have some and would love to add it, but hesitate since I don't want to create bug food or change the pH too much. Thanks!
> 
> 
> Can you share which purple colorant you used for your shampoo bars, and how much you added? Thanks!


@AliOop i use 1 teaspoon in my recipe.  I get 9 2 oz bars out of my recipe.    I put the powder in my oil to help dissolve it while I prep everything else and have had no issues.


----------



## KiwiMoose (Jan 13, 2022)

Catscankim said:


> Never used a shampoo bar, but I can speak for the length of hair. I have long hair. I only wash my head and rinse and squeeze everything through, so I don't use much more shampoo than anybody else with shorter hair. Then I condition the whole length of my hair.
> 
> My hair is not particularly thick, but it used to be. I just always washed my hair this way. At one point I had all of my hair cut off for Locks of Love and she mentioned how healthy my hair was and I told her how I washed it. "YES! That is how you should wash long hair." Basically shampoo should not touch it.


Yep - shampoo is for the scalp, and conditioner is for the hair.


----------



## scmorgans (Jan 13, 2022)

CreativeWeirdo said:


> I can answer some of these questions; I used to work in a hair salon at their front desk and I had to learn about ALL the products.  But I think the biggest problem is that people just don't know HOW to use a shampoo bar.  Maybe a video tutorial/introduction to just how shampoo bars work would help take away some of the intimidation.
> 
> 1)  Course, thick, long hair takes a lot of effort to wash because there is just so much of it and you have to get the shampoo everywhere without missing any space.  I liquid shampoo SEEMS easier because it's already easy to spread.
> 
> ...




Now this was educational! Thank you!!


----------



## Gaisy59 (Jan 13, 2022)

Gonna get in on this…i have thick curly hair and use a shampoo bar. I love it! As far as i can tell shampoo is a cleanser and one type really should fit all. My hairdresser told me you cannot formulate a bar…she was wrong. I made my bar, stick it in my shower without a dish, tested how long it lasts washing every three days. It lasts more than three months. It is not super hard but i tried placing a bar by my dehumidifier and yes it did leave buts and pieces in my hair leaving me to think that super dry is not a good thing. It strips my color as much as store shampoo does so no concern there. As for purple shampoo i used my daughters after she left for Australia and my thought is what a waste of money.

Now I can’t say anything about no plastic bottle to throw away every time it’s empty adding to the garbage already polluting the earth because the supplies come in plastic.

I have also used a bar while travelling and i love it. I find it not as harsh as some of the free shampoos from the hotels. It goes through the airport with no trouble as it is a solid. Also works great when camping per my daughter.

Personally i think it’s all about big companies and their ads. Good luck [email protected] i am hoping you can change peoples mindset. You have a great product.

Wow didn’t mean to go on and on, but i love shampoo and conditioner bars!


----------



## CreativeWeirdo (Jan 13, 2022)

KiwiMoose said:


> Yep - shampoo is for the scalp, and conditioner is for the hair.



YES! That's something else I learned while working at the salon.  You're natural scalp oils hydrate the first 3 inches of your hair; conditioner should be applied "ponytail down".  And shampoo is really just to remove product buildup on the hair length.


----------



## AliOop (Jan 13, 2022)

Catscankim said:


> Never used a shampoo bar, but I can speak for the length of hair. I have long hair. I only wash my head and rinse and squeeze everything through, so I don't use much more shampoo than anybody else with shorter hair. Then I condition the whole length of my hair.


Same - I only wash my head, but condition all my hair, which used to be very long before chopping it quite short last year. Long or short, rinsing takes forever because it is also quite thick and curly.  

I do use shampoo bars and conditioner bars. The shampoo bars last forever, but I have to use tons of conditioner because my hair is quite dry, as is typical for most curly hair.  My shampoo bars are formulated not to strip color (no sulfates). @cerelife I'd be interested to know the ingredients on your shampoo that doesn't strip the glossing, to see if there is something else I could add or remove to help with that, as well. If you don't mind.


----------



## Misschief (Jan 13, 2022)

Gaisy59 said:


> it did leave buts and pieces in my hair leaving me to think that super dry is not a good thing.



I recommend to my customers that they should put the bar into an organza or muslin bag when it gets smaller. That way, if/when it breaks, the bits and pieces are contained and you can use it to the very last bit. Both my husband and I have separate bars (he has itchy scalp and fairly coarse hair and I have fine dry hair) and all our end bits go into an organza bag. Last weekend, I turned our collected ends into another bar by reheating and remolding it. We're good to go for another few months!


----------



## Gaisy59 (Jan 13, 2022)

Misschief said:


> I recommend to my customers that they should put the bar into an organza or muslin bag when it gets smaller. That way, if/when it breaks, the bits and pieces are contained and you can use it to the very last bit. Both my husband and I have separate bars (he has itchy scalp and fairly coarse hair and I have fine dry hair) and all our end bits go into an organza bag. Last weekend, I turned our collected ends into another bar by reheating and remolding it. We're good to go for another few months!


Perfect! I just squeezed/reformed the broken bits together again , but that is a great idea.


----------



## SirSoapsAlot (Jan 13, 2022)

Health conscious and mostly green person here.  I like the idea of the shampoo bar, but have never tried one.  I have very long hair, usually midback or longer.  The idea of rubbing a bar on my head brings images of a huge rats nest on the top of my head.  Liquid is just easier, I can lather well, and I now buy in a bulk container, like box wine, and refill my old bottles.  I'd like to be a bar person, but I don't ever see it happening, esp. since most of the bars have things I don't want if I can avoid them in my products.  (They aren't cheap either). It's such a balancing act with chemicals and sometimes I try to talk myself into a "grey area", but then once you excuse one ingredient it becomes easier to accept another and I just try not to go down that road.  It's very difficult with all the flash and fancy things artificial ingredients can do.


----------



## cerelife (Jan 14, 2022)

AliOop said:


> @cerelife I'd be interested to know the ingredients on your shampoo that doesn't strip the glossing, to see if there is something else I could add or remove to help with that, as well. If you don't mind.


I don't mind at all! I use these 4, switching up from time to time. I also use the conditioners in the same 4:





						brilliant™ shampoo | Aveda
					

Plant-derived cleansers wash away product build-up and debris, leaving hair clean and shiny.




					www.aveda.com
				








						Sap Moss Hydrating Shampoo | Aveda
					

Silicone-free shampoo formulated with a blend of Iceland moss and larch tree sap extract hydrates hair without weighing it down. Gently cleanses without stripping and infuses hair with weightless hydration while helping tame frizz, leaving hair feeling perfectly quenched and manageable.




					www.aveda.com
				








						botanical repair™ strengthening shampoo | Aveda
					

<P>Luxuriously cleanses while helping strengthen and repair damaged hair with the power of plants*. Gently removes excess sebum, product build-up and pollution.<BR><BR><STRONG>Marie Claire Prix D’Excellence Award Winner for 2021</STRONG><BR><BR><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">*When used with the...




					www.aveda.com
				











						Hydrating Shampoo 8.5oz
					

<p>Weightless moisturizing, Color Protecting, Anti-Aging.<br /> For normal to Dry hair – Won’t weigh hair down.<br /> Foaming lather – Sulfate & Sodium Chloride Free, Gluten Free and Paraben Free.<br /> Highly concentrated formula. Desire more lather – add more water not more product.<br />...




					www.number4hair.com
				




And to clarify about the glossing: this is a separate procedure from coloring. The best way I can describe it is that it makes your hair kind of like 'doll hair' - very shiny with a texture not unlike Barbie doll hair. It normally lasts for about 4-6 weeks depending on how often you wash your hair, but with the Lush shampoo bar my fresh gloss was totally gone after 2 uses! My color was fine, it was only the gloss that was affected.
This was the Lush product I used:








						Soak and Float | Shampoo Bars | Lush Cosmetics
					

Help is on the way for dry, itchy, irritated scalps with this nourishing, toning and cleansing packaging-free shampoo bar made with a rich campfire scent.




					www.lushusa.com
				











						Hair Shine Treatment Landing Page
					

Discover Aveda Hair Color which is up to 96% naturally derived & essentially damage-free




					www.aveda.com


----------



## AliOop (Jan 14, 2022)

Thank you, @cerelife! With SLS as the first ingredient, that Lush bar would definitely strip my color and irritate my scalp, so I'm surprised it was only your gloss that was affected. I don't use any sulfates in my shampoo bars for that reason. 

The additional ingredients in the shampoo and conditioner were interesting, too. I've only heard one other person on this forum mention using Babassuamidopropyl Betaine, and they liked it a lot, but it was getting expensive and difficult to find. Apparently it is a great alternative to Cocoamidopropyl Betaine, which is a known irritant and allergen for many folks. Anyway, I'm going to research some of the other ingredients and see what I might be able to incorporate in some of my bars. Thank you!


----------



## Kiti Williams (Jan 14, 2022)

SirSoapsAlot said:


> Health conscious and mostly green person here.  I like the idea of the shampoo bar, but have never tried one.  I have very long hair, usually midback or longer.  The idea of rubbing a bar on my head brings images of a huge rats nest on the top of my head.  Liquid is just easier, I can lather well, and I now buy in a bulk container, like box wine, and refill my old bottles.  I'd like to be a bar person, but I don't ever see it happening, esp. since most of the bars have things I don't want if I can avoid them in my products.  (They aren't cheap either). It's such a balancing act with chemicals and sometimes I try to talk myself into a "grey area", but then once you excuse one ingredient it becomes easier to accept another and I just try not to go down that road.  It's very difficult with all the flash and fancy things artificial ingredients can do.



My hair it past my butt, I made my shampoo bar with this in mind.  As to how you use it with long hair - I wet my head, hair going down my back.  I rub the bar in the direction of my hair growth, from forehead to nape.  I rub my scalp to suds up, rinse and re-apply to the ends and suds it up.  I rinse with my hair pulled over my head and face.  The reason it takes forever to rinse is too much shampoo for the dirt in the hair, this is a learning curve.  I inform my customers with a hand out, on how to transition to a shampoo bar.


----------



## SideDoorSoaps (Jan 14, 2022)

What a great thread, everyone!! @KiwiMoose i saw another maker who made small travel sizes in 1” cavaities and she sold lots of them like this Wilton mold. It’s perfect for sample sizes! 

I have lots of hair, thick, ethnic, waist length. I wash my hair once a week. I don’t use a lot of shampoo but do conditioner. I recently colored my hair and got a sample shampoo bar from a local maker. It did take color out of my hair. Interesting. I don’t often color my hair either.

I don’t balk at the price because it’s handmade and concentrated ingredients but lots of people don’t realize that. There’s so many misconceptions as well that we all seem to be combatting concerning shampoo bars.

the only complaint I really have and have had is that the bars fall apart. I don’t like the noodle ones at all for that reason.


----------



## KiwiMoose (Jan 14, 2022)

SideDoorSoaps said:


> What a great thread, everyone!! @KiwiMoose i saw another maker who made small travel sizes in 1” cavaities and she sold lots of them like this Wilton mold. It’s perfect for sample sizes!
> 
> I have lots of hair, thick, ethnic, waist length. I wash my hair once a week. I don’t use a lot of shampoo but do conditioner. I recently colored my hair and got a sample shampoo bar from a local maker. It did take color out of my hair. Interesting. I don’t often color my hair either.
> 
> ...


Yes I’ve made some smaller by half filling some giant ice cube molds. But I was a bit heavy handed and some of them have ended up at 50g ( my regular bar size is 70g).
My bars are poured, not pressed, and I do not use noodles anymore (I buy them because they are almost half the price of the powder and grind them up).
I have found the shape affects the early breakage so mine are not too big in diameter, and quite tall in comparison. My earlier bars were wider and flatter and broke a lot earlier.


----------



## KiwiMoose (Jan 14, 2022)

Here they are:


----------



## DMack (Jan 14, 2022)

I love the idea of shampoo bars but the reality after a year and half of use was they’re no good for me. I tried Lush syndet bars first which I didn’t like then found a great company which sold a shampoo bar I loved soooo much I used on my 4yr old as well. My horror when a year in I noticed his hair was breaking off (his hair is now halfway down his back but the brokey off bits are not even shoulder length yet) then I saw mine was breaking off too. I stopped immediately and noticed massive improvements in my son’s hair. Mine is chemically treated so it’s a work in progress I’m afraid but not yet prepared to go too short or dye my hair darker. I can live with that but my boy is growing his hair so he can donate it to a charity to make wigs for children so I was upset to see the damage caused. 
I switched for environmental reasons but tbh more companies are using recycled plastic for their products and of course these can be recycled too so my not buying half a dozen hair product bottles a year isn’t worth the trade


----------



## AliOop (Jan 14, 2022)

@DMack when you say "shampoo bar," (the one you used after the Lush bar), was it actually a bar of soap? Many people do experience serious hair damage from using soap on their hair. I don't consider those "shampoo bars" for that reason.  The shampoo bars we are talking about in this thread are made with syndets and do not contain soap. 

Have you tried any of real syndet shampoo bars, other than the Lush bars? Lush bars are made with sulfates, which are way too stripping for my hair and irritating for my scalp. Most of us here use recipes that contain no sulfates, only the same ingredients used in non-sulfate liquid shampoos (but minus the liquid). If you haven't tried one of those, maybe @KiwiMoose will send you one of hers.


----------



## KiwiMoose (Jan 14, 2022)

DMack said:


> I love the idea of shampoo bars but the reality after a year and half of use was they’re no good for me. I tried Lush syndet bars first which I didn’t like then found a great company which sold a shampoo bar I loved soooo much I used on my 4yr old as well. My horror when a year in I noticed his hair was breaking off (his hair is now halfway down his back but the brokey off bits are not even shoulder length yet) then I saw mine was breaking off too. I stopped immediately and noticed massive improvements in my son’s hair. Mine is chemically treated so it’s a work in progress I’m afraid but not yet prepared to go too short or dye my hair darker. I can live with that but my boy is growing his hair so he can donate it to a charity to make wigs for children so I was upset to see the damage caused.
> I switched for environmental reasons but tbh more companies are using recycled plastic for their products and of course these can be recycled too so my not buying half a dozen hair product bottles a year isn’t worth the trade


Can you get hold of the ingredient list for the one that broke your hair?



AliOop said:


> @DMack when you say "shampoo bar," (the one you used after the Lush bar), was it actually a bar of soap? Many people do experience serious hair damage from using soap on their hair. I don't consider those "shampoo bars" for that reason.  The shampoo bars we are talking about in this thread are made with syndets and do not contain soap. Have you tried any of those besides the Lush bars? Lush bars are made with sulfates which are way too stripping for my hair and irritating for my scalp. Most of us here use recipes that contain no sulfates, only the same ingredients used in non-sulfate liquid shampoos (but minus the liquid). If you haven't tried one of those, maybe @KiwiMoose will send you one of hers.


Ha!  I just sent something to the UK from New Zealand and it took 5 weeks to get there.


----------



## soapysarah (Jan 15, 2022)

I was just thinking about shampoo bars when this discussion popped up.  I saw an ad for Nope shampoo and conditioning bars and, from idle curiosity, I looked at the ingredients and noticed that they do not contain lye but does have sodium coco-sulphate, which is a new one on me.  Does anyone know about this; does it replace the lye?  I always thought that soap wasn’t soap without sodium hydroxide.

I make all our soaps and also a liquid shampoo for my husband from the Failor book, which my husband uses and loves (he does a vinegar rinse but no conditioner).  I don’t get on with it as I find that my, uncoloured, hair gets thick-feeling and slightly greasy even with a vinegar rinse and conditioner.  I would like to use a ‘no poo’ shampoo but have yet to find something I can make which works for me.  My basic understanding is that one cannot make conditioners without surfactants; is this true?

I only make soap for us and as gifts for friends.  I do keep a record of every soap I make and its outcome but am purely hobbyist.  Comments appreciated.  Thank you.


----------



## DMack (Jan 15, 2022)

KiwiMoose said:


> Can you get hold of the ingredient list for the one that broke your hair?


I think so, I’ll have a look see


----------



## DMack (Jan 15, 2022)

AliOop said:


> @DMack when you say "shampoo bar," (the one you used after the Lush bar), was it actually a bar of soap? Many people do experience serious hair damage from using soap on their hair. I don't consider those "shampoo bars" for that reason.  The shampoo bars we are talking about in this thread are made with syndets and do not contain soap.
> 
> Have you tried any of real syndet shampoo bars, other than the Lush bars? Lush bars are made with sulfates, which are way too stripping for my hair and irritating for my scalp. Most of us here use recipes that contain no sulfates, only the same ingredients used in non-sulfate liquid shampoos (but minus the liquid). If you haven't tried one of those, maybe @KiwiMoose will send you one of hers.


I tried two from Lush as they were a gift before I realised that the company were not as ’fresh’ as I had been led to believe. The other two I tried were soap shampoo bars but not marketed as soap. non sulphate cleansers weren’t readily available here and these companies sold their products as shampoo and even had solid conditioners for sale. I never tried those but I did try vinegar rinses. There was a lot of smoke and mirrors tbh and I read plenty of reviews along similar experi to mine with both


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Jan 15, 2022)

soapysarah said:


> I always thought that soap wasn’t soap without sodium hydroxide.


 That's true. You can't make "soap" without lye. However, on SMF there are two camps...
Lye-based soap and liquid soap.
Syndet (synthetic/detergent, i.e., NOT soap) bars for hair and body.

If lye-based soap doesn't work for you, you may want to try syndets.

*MAKE YOUR OWN SHAMPOO BARS*


----------



## DMack (Jan 15, 2022)

KiwiMoose said:


> Can you get hold of the ingredient list for the one that broke your hair?


This was one of them 

IngredientsSodium cocoate, Sodium olivate, Aqua, Sodium castorate, Lavandula angustifolia (lavender) oil contains linalool, Pelargonium graveolens (rose geranium) leaf oil contains citronellol, geraniol, linalool

this was the blurb 

This nourishing shampoo bar is compact, long-lasting, and uses castor oil for a creamy and deeply conditioning lather that cleans and cares for your locks and scalp. Relaxing lavender and rose geranium essential oils add to the pleasure.



KiwiMoose said:


> Can you get hold of the ingredient list for the one that broke your hair?


This is the other. I notice they have changed their adverts to include the words ‘cold processed soap’ 

EUCALYPTUS MINT & LEMON ESSENTIAL OIL SHAMPOO SOAP - Contains a blend of complimentary essential oils to open your airways and leave your hair smelling fresh. INGREDIENTS: Saponified Olive Oil, Coconut Oil and Sustainably sourced Palm Oil, Castor Oil, Eucalyptus, Mint & Lemon Essential Oils 
SUITABLE FOR NORMAL-DRY HAIR AND SCALP - This shampoo soap includes additional castor oil making it more suitable for those with normal-dry hair and scalp.


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Jan 15, 2022)

@DMack Those are both lye-based shampoo bars. It's incredibly important to rinse with cool water until it gets as cold as you can stand it to get ALL the soap residue out to avoid what you experienced. There is also a period of adjustment when you first start using lye-based shampoo. There's good info on this site:

*EVERYTHING ABOUT SHAMPOO BARS*


----------



## DMack (Jan 15, 2022)

Zany_in_CO said:


> @DMack Those are both lye-based shampoo bars. It's incredibly important to rinse with cool water until it gets as cold as you can stand it to get ALL the soap residue out to avoid what you experienced. There is also a period of adjustment when you first start using lye-based shampoo. There's good info on this site:
> 
> *EVERYTHING ABOUT SHAMPOO BARS*


I tried.  i rinsed and rinsed and then used vinegar rinse. We used them for nearly 2yrs and tbh I adjusted very quickly. The issues started very late into usage. On purchasing I did’t know they were soap not shampoo because of the cryptic (frankly outright lies) on the packaging.  both billed as super kind to hair and scalp. I wasn’t a member of this forum then and was new to my reading as well. I’ve learned a lot more since, mainly thanks to you guys


----------



## AliOop (Jan 15, 2022)

@DMack I'm one of the small minority, along with Zany, who can successfully use soap as shampoo on my hair. I never did a cold water rinse as Zany described, but did use vinegar rinses. Really, I believe the issue has more to do with hair type, frequency of washing, perhaps climate and diet, etc.  FWIW, my husband was able to use soap on his hair for a few years before he experienced super dry and flaky scalp, and some hair fall - and his hair was already quite short, too. 

Given all the issues others had, I decided it wasn't worth risking eventual problems, so I switched back to liquid shampoo for a bit, and then on to true shampoo bars. They truly are the same ingredients as what you will find in most liquid shampoos, just without the water. If you can't get the ingredients there, that is a bummer.


----------



## DMack (Jan 15, 2022)

AliOop said:


> @DMack I'm one of the small minority, along with Zany, who can successfully use soap as shampoo on my hair. I never did a cold water rinse as Zany described, but did use vinegar rinses. Really, I believe the issue has more to do with hair type, frequency of washing, perhaps climate and diet, etc.  FWIW, my husband was able to use soap on his hair for a few years before he experienced super dry and flaky scalp, and some hair fall - and his hair was already quite short, too.
> 
> Given all the issues others had, I decided it wasn't worth risking eventual problems, so I switched back to liquid shampoo for a bit, and then on to true shampoo bars. They truly are the same ingredients as what you will find in most liquid shampoos, just without the water. If you can't get the ingredients there, that is a bummer.


More companies are cottoning on and some big brands are appearing in the supermarkets at reasonable prices as well. One is selling for £8. The market is changing. I’ve just checked 4 ranging from £4-£12 and all are syndets albeit milder sulphates. What ingredients would you use in a sulphate free bar out of interest?


----------



## AliOop (Jan 15, 2022)

DMack said:


> More companies are cottoning on and some big brands are appearing in the supermarkets at reasonable prices as well. One is selling for £8. The market is changing. I’ve just checked 4 ranging from £4-£12 and all are syndets albeit milder sulphates. What ingredients would you use in a sulphate free bar out of interest?


I use several of the sulfate-free recipes from DIY Bath & Body (she lists all her ingredients in each Etsy listing) and HumbleBeeandMe.com. The primary surfactants are SCI, Cocoamidopropyl Betaine, and Decyl Glucoside. I'd like to try some of the foaming apple that @KiwiMoose loves in her bars. Just need to wait for my supply order to reach critical mass for optimum shipping rates!


----------



## DMack (Jan 15, 2022)

AliOop said:


> I use several of the sulfate-free recipes from DIY Bath & Body (she lists all her ingredients in each Etsy listing) and HumbleBeeandMe.com. The primary surfactants are SCI, Cocoamidopropyl Betaine, and Decyl Glucoside. I'd like to try some of the foaming apple that @KiwiMoose loves in her bars. Just need to wait for my supply order to reach critical mass for optimum shipping rates!


Three have sodium coco sulphate, one has Sodium cocoyl isethionate* Disodium lauryl sulfosuccinate

@AliOop i just opened up the site you mentioned to read later. Thank you
@KiwiMoose what ingredients do you use if you don’t mind me asking?


----------



## Misschief (Jan 15, 2022)

soapysarah said:


> I was just thinking about shampoo bars when this discussion popped up.  I saw an ad for Nope shampoo and conditioning bars and, from idle curiosity, I looked at the ingredients and noticed that they do not contain lye but does have sodium coco-sulphate, which is a new one on me.  Does anyone know about this; does it replace the lye?  I always thought that soap wasn’t soap without sodium hydroxide.
> 
> I make all our soaps and also a liquid shampoo for my husband from the Failor book, which my husband uses and loves (he does a vinegar rinse but no conditioner).  I don’t get on with it as I find that my, uncoloured, hair gets thick-feeling and slightly greasy even with a vinegar rinse and conditioner.  I would like to use a ‘no poo’ shampoo but have yet to find something I can make which works for me.  My basic understanding is that one cannot make conditioners without surfactants; is this true?
> 
> I only make soap for us and as gifts for friends.  I do keep a record of every soap I make and its outcome but am purely hobbyist.  Comments appreciated.  Thank you.


What you were looking at is a "syndet" shampoo (synthetic detergent). It is not a true soap recipe. A lot of people find lye based shampoos very hard on their hair, especially those with longer hair. There are members here on SMF who have had to cut their long locks because of damage, even with acidic rinses and copious water rinsing. 

Conditioner bars needn't use surfactants. Surfactants are foaming agents; they're used in the shampoo bars.


----------



## AliOop (Jan 15, 2022)

DMack said:


> Three have sodium coco sulphate, one has Sodium cocoyl isethionate* Disodium lauryl sulfosuccinate


Similar to Sodium Lauryl Sulphate/sulfate, sodium coco sulphate/sulfate is a sulfate surfactant. It will strip hair color and can be harsh on the scalp and hair. I personally wouldn't use it, but those with uncolored, healthy hair may find it acceptable.

Sodium cocoyl isethionate is the same ingredient I referred to as "SCI." This is a milder, non-sulfate surfactant. I don't find it irritating at all, but some folks do if the total percentage used is too high.

Disodium lauryl sulfosuccinate is an ingredient with which I have no experience. I am pretty sure is a non-sulfate surfactant, but if avoiding sulfates matters to you, you'd want to double-check. HumbleBeeandMe.com has a wonderful encyclopedia of ingredients that can be very helpful. A $1/mo subscription to the Swifty Crafty Monkey blog can also be handy. The blog is not well organized, but there is more information there than one can imagine, including explanations of almost every ingredient under the sun.


----------



## Kiti Williams (Jan 15, 2022)

AliOop said:


> @DMack I'm one of the small minority, along with Zany, who can successfully use soap as shampoo on my hair. I never did a cold water rinse as Zany described, but did use vinegar rinses. Really, I believe the issue has more to do with hair type, frequency of washing, perhaps climate and diet, etc.  FWIW, my husband was able to use soap on his hair for a few years before he experienced super dry and flaky scalp, and some hair fall - and his hair was already quite short, too.
> 
> Given all the issues others had, I decided it wasn't worth risking eventual problems, so I switched back to liquid shampoo for a bit, and then on to true shampoo bars. They truly are the same ingredients as what you will find in most liquid shampoos, just without the water. If you can't get the ingredients there, that is a bummer.



As an aside, I use homemade shampoo that is made with lye.  My whole family uses it, no problems with hair damage.


----------



## AliOop (Jan 15, 2022)

Kiti Williams said:


> As an aside, I use homemade shampoo that is made with lye.  My whole family uses it, no problems with hair damage.


That's awesome, but you, your family, Zany and I are definitely in the minority, sadly.  I know a lot more people who have suffered greatly from using soap to wash their hair.  I wish it were not so, but on this forum alone, a plethora of folks have shared their horrific stories of hair damage.

FWIW, I  avoid using the term "shampoo" or "shampoo bars" to refer to any form of lye soap, bar or liquid. The original definition of shampoo was a detergent product created to replace soap for cleaning hair. Most people - including DMack - don't think they are buying lye soap if something is marketed as "shampoo" instead of "hair soap." 

It's no different than hand-crafted soapmakers trying to educate the public that Dove isn't actually soap, but rather, a syndet. I'm all for having a variety of products and letting people choose what's best for them -- as long as the seller is clear about the product being sold, including whether it contains true soap, syndets, or whatever.


----------



## Dawni (Jan 16, 2022)

Been using shampoo bars for almost 5yrs now. Vain is me, so here's me n my hair lol. It's even longer now. I never brush. My comb is my fingers. I don't use a hair dryer, don't rub with a towel either. Absolutely nothing else touches my hair other than a solid conditioner that I use from maybe halfway down. But then, my hair is one of those types that can handle almost anything lol

Shampoo bars are trial n error, if you're really willing to not use liquid. If someone doesn't have the patience to go n try several of em to see how it suits themselves they might never be convinced to not go back to liquid - for many other reasons too, cost and ease of usage being top ones. 

It's been difficult here to convince people to use free ones too LOL. People are very particular about their hair and once they have a shampoo that works they're not willing to try anything else.

Also, for some reason, none of the bars with scents (and I've tried many over the years) I've tried stuck to my hair compared to liquid shampoos. Now myself, am not a fan of my hair smelling like someone else's air freshener or something lol but I do have several testers who complain that once their hair is dry their hair doesn't smell shampooed. 

It's been easier to "force" my male cousins to test my shampoo bars than the females. Go figure. 

That being said. Shampoo bars is a big market here so either we collectively have indestructible hair or we're a bunch of eco loving people haha. I've been meaning to get in but I'm still testing.


----------



## lucycat (Jan 16, 2022)

I'm a little late in response but I used to order shampoo bars from get lathered.  I love her products.  When I started I  used both shampoo and conditioning bars. I purchased the first time to see if I wanted to make them.  I quickly decided hers were great and they lasted so long I would just buy.  I even gave them for gifts. I was probably 60 and was coloring my hair.  After a few years I was not liking the feel after using the shampoo bar with my coarser hair but still loved the conditioner bar; Now, fully grey, thinner hair and no coloring I find the conditioner bar tends to add too much weight to my hair and styling is harder.  I just need a different formulated shampoo bar and conditioning bar today than I needed 12 years ago.  

I think that is why commercial products always have so many versions and that is a problem if you are making.   How many versions for what can of hair can you make?   We use ourselves as our primary testers so your product is probably going to work best for people with similar age and hair to you.   I love the minimal packaging and how long they last but I need a shampoo and conditioning bar that is formulated for grey hair today.  Just like others would like for long hair, oily, dry, colored, etc.   One product really does not fit all.


----------



## Hope Ann (Jan 16, 2022)

For some reason I can't quote you.  

I tried a shampoo bar in the past. It was a pain to rub into my hair (at that point it was super thick, down to bra strap). It also left my hair feeling clumpy and icky. Doing an ACV wash was a PITA and way more work than this 5-min shower wash-n-go gal wanted. I'm loath to repeat the experience.

I personally don't care about my gray hair coming in, but at some point might want it to look more silvery than gray. I do know that since I started getting gray hair it's far more particular about what product I'm using.

If I was willing to try it, I'd want to purchase a small sample size at a low dollar commitment. I've wasted way too much money in the past on products that didn't work. I won't do it any more.

My biggest objection to trying a shampoo bar is I got a chemical burn from a Trader Joes shampoo a few years back, and since then I've had to be extremely careful what I use. I learned to read labels so I could purchase responsibly. It took a lot of trial and error but I finally found a clean shampoo that works for my hair type AND skin. I'm not willing to upset the apple cart.

Could I be honest here?  It troubled me that you called these "excuses".  They're valid concerns, all of them, not excuses.  I hope the many responses you've received will show you that.  It was probably poor phrasing on your part, but if that is truly how you see it, that attitude will carry forward to your prospective customers and may alienate them.  It came across to me as judgmental and talking down and put my back up (I don't need to justify my choices to you).  I'm sure that's not how you intended it and that you're just frustrated by the situation (you have a product you love; why doesn't everyone else?!!).  I just wanted to bring this to your attention as I wouldn't want anything to interfere with your project.

Hope


----------



## Kiti Williams (Jan 16, 2022)

AliOop said:


> That's awesome, but you, your family, Zany and I are definitely in the minority, sadly.  I know a lot more people who have suffered greatly from using soap to wash their hair.  I wish it were not so, but on this forum alone, a plethora of folks have shared their horrific stories of hair damage.
> 
> FWIW, I  avoid using the term "shampoo" or "shampoo bars" to refer to any form of lye soap, bar or liquid. The original definition of shampoo was a detergent product created to replace soap for cleaning hair. Most people - including DMack - don't think they are buying lye soap if something is marketed as "shampoo" instead of "hair soap."
> 
> It's no different than hand-crafted soapmakers trying to educate the public that Dove isn't actually soap, but rather, a syndet. I'm all for having a variety of products and letting people choose what's best for them -- as long as the seller is clear about the product being sold, including whether it contains true soap, syndets, or whatever.



I the flyer that goes with my shampoo soap, I have listed that it IS a Lye based soap, and how to transition to a bar from commercial shampoos.  I sell "Tastes" for a dollar each.  I usually have batter left over, so I have a candy mold to make these up.  One lady didn't believe that ZNSC was as good as I said, she bought a "taste" and went off the the ladies room to see for herself.  She came back and bought 5 bars for her and her family!


----------



## Gaisy59 (Jan 16, 2022)

KiwiMoose said:


> Here they are:View attachment 63752
> View attachment 63753
> View attachment 63754
> View attachment 63755


OMYGOSH @KiwiMoose! I have been looking for square molds as i like them better than round. May i ask what you use for the square?


----------



## KiwiMoose (Jan 16, 2022)

Gaisy59 said:


> OMYGOSH @KiwiMoose! I have been looking for square molds as i like them better than round. May i ask what you use for the square?


It's a 'giant ice cube' silicone mold from K mart.  I just half filled them ( still  bit too big for as maples but that's what you get when you eyeball stuff instead of measuring.  
They look like this and should only cost about $US2 each if you shop around: Tovolo King/Jumbo Ice Cube Silicone Tray BPA Free/Dishwasher Safe Candy Apple - Onceit


----------



## SideDoorSoaps (Jan 17, 2022)

@KiwiMoose your bars are oh sooooo smoooothhhh.


----------



## KiwiMoose (Jan 17, 2022)

SideDoorSoaps said:


> @KiwiMoose your bars are oh sooooo smoooothhhh.


Shaken, not stirred.  Oh, um, I mean, poured, not pressed


----------



## cathy hayward (Feb 20, 2022)

KiwiMoose said:


> I have put out an APB on my social media asking people why they don't seem to warm to shampoo bars.  I have a bucket load of foaming apple here (all the way from the USA) that needs using up, but I don't want want to throw good money after bad making shampoo bars that are, quite frankly, very expensive to make.  I have myself and my hubby and sister in law that use them regularly and that's it. And i only need to make circa 5-6 bars per year to service just us three.
> 
> Excuses people use not to try them are:
> 1) My hair is long and thick ( and I guess there's an implication that it won't do the job?)
> ...


i think people dont know to much about this as they would rather spend big money on crap shampoo and conditioner rather than using great organic products wish they would catch up to us all on this i havent made shampoo or condtioners bars yet as i dont know how but im would like to learn on this .I make organic soap bath salts bath bombs kids soap also



cathy hayward said:


> i think people dont know to much about this as they would rather spend big money on crap shampoo and conditioner rather than using great organic products wish they would catch up to us all on this i havent made shampoo or condtioners bars yet as i dont know how but im would like to learn on this .I make organic soap bath salts bath bombs kids soap also


i need to find a simple organic recipe for the shampoo and condtioning bars in a pinch i have even used my own soap bath bars on my hair and i dont even need condtioner as i have really good ingredients in my bars also my hair is half way down my backside


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Feb 20, 2022)

cathy hayward said:


> i have even used my own soap bath bars on my hair and i dont even need condtioner as i have really good ingredients in my bars


  Same here!


cathy hayward said:


> i need to find a simple organic recipe for the shampoo and condtioning bars in a pinch


What are you waiting fot? I think you have all the necessary tools and experience to formulate the perfect bar! As for a "conditioning bar", I would forgo that. I use a drop or two of *argan oil* between my palms and smooth it over my hair, paying special attention to the ends, for conditioning, shine and to control flyaways.


----------



## scmorgans (Feb 20, 2022)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Same here!
> 
> What are you waiting fot? I think you have all the necessary tools and experience to formulate the perfect bar! As for a "conditioning bar", I would forgo that. I use a drop or two of *argan oil* between my palms and smooth it over my hair, paying special attention to the ends, for conditioning, shine and to control flyaways.



Question for Zany - you put Argan Oil on your hair while it's wet or dry?? I only ask as I made Shampoo & conditioner bars after following this thread. Been using them now for almost 3 wks. WHAT A DIFFERENCE in my hair!
So, Thank you to everyone for the wonderful thread!

Here's my bars after unmolding them. I made Poured Shampoo & Conditioner.


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Feb 20, 2022)

scmorgans said:


> Question for Zany - you put Argan Oil on your hair while it's wet or dry??


@scmorgans FYI: I just happened to see this. It's best to put an @ in front of the name to be sure the member gets a notification.  
Wet or dry, it doesn't matter. Usually I towel dry and put it on before styling but I also do it again the next day on dry hair if it needs it.

I should also mention, that *castor oil* is also good for hair (and scalp) and less expensive. I rub a bit of castor on my brush before brushing, wet or dry.


----------



## Kiti Williams (Feb 20, 2022)

My hair is down to my butt and I use a shampoo bar and some conditioner bar on the ends (my own mix).  I made a beard soap that had men buying me out in 1 week!  I can't keep that in stock, it is so popular!


----------



## Misschief (Feb 20, 2022)

Kiti Williams said:


> My hair is down to my butt and I use a shampoo bar and some conditioner bar on the ends (my own mix).  I made a beard soap that had men buying me out in 1 week!  I can't keep that in stock, it is so popular!



Could I ask what you add to your shampoo bar to make it a beard soap? Is your shampoo bar a soap base or syndet base?


----------



## scmorgans (Feb 21, 2022)

Zany_in_CO said:


> @scmorgans FYI: I just happened to see this. It's best to put an @ in front of the name to be sure the member gets a notification.
> Wet or dry, it doesn't matter. Usually I towel dry and put it on before styling but I also do it again the next day on dry hair if it needs it.
> 
> I should also mention, that castor oil is also good for hair (and scalp) and less expensive. I rub a bit of castor on my brush before brushing, wet or dry.



@Zany_in_CO  Thank you! I'm hoping I replied correctly. I did not know about the @.


----------



## Kiti Williams (Feb 21, 2022)

Misschief said:


> Could I ask what you add to your shampoo bar to make it a beard soap? Is your shampoo bar a soap base or syndet base?



It is a soap based with 10 to 20% Argon oil and less coconut oil.  I upped the "Hard oil", Avocado oil, to make a very hard bar.  

Ron's beard is down to his belt, it was nasty and dried out.  1 use of the beard soap and it was in better condition than at the beginning of the season.


----------



## Peachy Clean Soap (Feb 21, 2022)

cmzaha said:


> Bluing or Purple coloring in shampoo whitens gray or white hair. It does Not work as a colorant it just whitens yellow cast the same as bluing in your wash water will do for whites. In fact, after WW11 when hair products were hard for salons to acquire they would use Mrs. Stewart's Bluing for hair rinses on their gray and white hair customers. I still buy and use it in my wash. This is why they make blue rinses but I always hated using leave on blue rinses such as White Minx because they would stain customers' hair if they had snow-white hair, so I preferred to dilute the rinse or use Mrs. Stewart's Bluing.
> 
> When I made shampoo bars I colored the ones for my use with purple colorant to help brighten and ward of yellow tinge in my white hair. I quit making them for sale because I simply could not sell them no matter how I tried to promote them. I had a few customers that loved them so I told them to just special order them from me when they need shampoo bars.


Interesting Mrs. Bluing for whiter white clothes’ makes perfect since. awesome tip .


----------



## Carolyne Thrasher (Feb 23, 2022)

I know you posted awhile ago @KiwiMoose but I can’t keep up with the demand for my shampoo bars. I drag my feet on making them because soap is so much more fun.

But to your question-I would say all the people who buy my shampoo bars buy them to avoid plastic. I have a very loyal following who often buy extras for novelty gifts and then those people come to me as new customers. I have a sign on my table at market that says “Plastic is Out! Solid is In!” People who would otherwise skip another soap seller literally do a double take and come ask me if I’m selling Shampoo bars. I have tried Lush bars and I know that mine are superior. There’s really no comparison. I explain how mine are formulated and I have memorized all the extra goodies (like panthenol) and rattle those off.I also tell people who are on the fence if my bar doesn’t work out for shampoo it makes an amazing body wash sans the plastic bottle. I also tell people one bar is equal to 2 sixteen ounce bottles of shampoo because number of washes doesn’t work. Everyone needs to use a different amount of product. And lastly I make everyone aware that it’s unnecessary to ship any kind of cleanser in plastic bottles because you are just basically transporting water and the carbon cost between the bottle and shipping is immoral. We’ve all seen the plastic islands in the ocean.


----------



## SoapSisters (Feb 24, 2022)

Zany_in_CO said:


> I use a drop or two of *argan oil* between my palms and smooth it over my hair, paying special attention to the ends, for conditioning, shine and to control flyaways.


Thanks for bringing up argan oil. I was thinking of ordering it for my hair as well. Do you use refined or unrefined?


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Feb 24, 2022)

SoapSisters said:


> Do you use refined or unrefined?


I just happened to add *this* to my cart while shopping at The Emu Oil Shop. Not sure if it's refined or unrefined.


----------



## Arimara (Feb 25, 2022)

... Yeah, I would need to know if anyone with any type of Afro hair has ever tried a shampoo bar.


----------



## kittyclark53 (May 31, 2022)

KiwiMoose said:


> I have put out an APB on my social media asking people why they don't seem to warm to shampoo bars.  I have a bucket load of foaming apple here (all the way from the USA) that needs using up, but I don't want want to throw good money after bad making shampoo bars that are, quite frankly, very expensive to make.  I have myself and my hubby and sister in law that use them regularly and that's it. And i only need to make circa 5-6 bars per year to service just us three.
> 
> Excuses people use not to try them are:
> 1) My hair is long and thick ( and I guess there's an implication that it won't do the job?)
> ...


I have the same problem. I have testers that try my products before I put them up for sale. The people who test my products are reluctant on the shampoo bars. I myself use them. They are phenomenal. My hair is baby fine, it's colored and the grey is coarse and dry. Since using this shampoo bar, my hair has bounce and it is a little curly now. I also don't have to use conditioner where before I had to, especially after coloring my hair and we know what a nightmare that is to comb out freshly colored hair without really good conditioner. I dont need it with this shampoo bar. I am hooked. My friend who tried it said it was good but she still used conditioner because her hair is long and fine also. I asked her to please try it without conditioner because with all the oils and butters in this bar, I feel it wieghs the hair down when you add conditioner. So far the reluctance is there to try them. and use them the way they are supposed to be used. Without conditioner. I only made one batch and I have 20 bars so I will use these myself and continue to make them for myself from now on if I can't sell them, at least I found something that works on my dry baby fine hair.


----------



## AliOop (May 31, 2022)

Arimara said:


> ... Yeah, I would need to know if anyone with any type of Afro hair has ever tried a shampoo bar.


I don’t have super kinky Afro hair, but I have been told by more than one Black woman, “You have Black people hair!”

Needless to say, my hair is very dry, thick, curly, and frizzy. Having just spent the last ten days in a very humid area, it’s also HUGE. 

Anyway, my handcrafted syndet shampoo bars and conditioner bars work great for my hair - it is noticeably softer and more manageable. I did specifically formulate for dry hair when I made them.

@kittyclark53 I have family members who love them, and they get my stuff for free or cost. But so far, I haven’t had any friends willing to try them, let alone pay the retail price for them. As others have noted, changing shampoos can be so scary for people. Hopefully when they see how good your hair looks, they will take a chance!


----------



## Rsapienza (May 31, 2022)

KiwiMoose said:


> I have put out an APB on my social media asking people why they don't seem to warm to shampoo bars.  I have a bucket load of foaming apple here (all the way from the USA) that needs using up, but I don't want want to throw good money after bad making shampoo bars that are, quite frankly, very expensive to make.  I have myself and my hubby and sister in law that use them regularly and that's it. And i only need to make circa 5-6 bars per year to service just us three.
> 
> Excuses people use not to try them are:
> 1) My hair is long and thick ( and I guess there's an implication that it won't do the job?)
> ...


Show them these pics….she pays $150 for a haircut!!! (She’s nuts) She uses them when she has color as well.


She uses my shampoo bars regularly!!! Those are all natural curls


----------



## AliOop (May 31, 2022)

Her hair is gorgeous! Great advertisement for your bars, for sure! 

Regarding the $150 haircut, believe me, we curly girls are willing to pay a premium for someone who can cut it right. Can’t tell you how many times my hair has been absolutely butchered by someone who assured me they knew how to cut curls.  The true test is not how I look when I leave, but how my hair behaves after that first wash - and how it grows out. 

I’ve only had two primary hairdressers over a span of 30 or so years. I still try to arrange my work trips to allow for a cut by one of them when I’m in her area. Because I rarely travel for work anymore, I’m actually looking for a hairdresser where we live now. It gives me a knot in my stomach just typing that. I even stop random curly girls in stores and ask them for a name. Most of them are very sympathetic, but so far, they’ve all had a friend or family member who does it on the side for them. I know she’s out there but I need to find her soon!


----------



## cmzaha (May 31, 2022)

KiwiMoose said:


> I have put out an APB on my social media asking people why they don't seem to warm to shampoo bars.  I have a bucket load of foaming apple here (all the way from the USA) that needs using up, but I don't want want to throw good money after bad making shampoo bars that are, quite frankly, very expensive to make.  I have myself and my hubby and sister in law that use them regularly and that's it. And i only need to make circa 5-6 bars per year to service just us three.
> 
> Excuses people use not to try them are:
> 1) My hair is long and thick ( and I guess there's an implication that it won't do the job?)
> ...


I was never really able to sell shampoo bars in any of my markets, no matter how I advertised them, so I would just make them for us.


----------



## ArcticBanshee (May 31, 2022)

KiwiMoose said:


> I have put out an APB on my social media asking people why they don't seem to warm to shampoo bars.  I have a bucket load of foaming apple here (all the way from the USA) that needs using up, but I don't want want to throw good money after bad making shampoo bars that are, quite frankly, very expensive to make.  I have myself and my hubby and sister in law that use them regularly and that's it. And i only need to make circa 5-6 bars per year to service just us three.
> 
> Excuses people use not to try them are:
> 1) My hair is long and thick ( and I guess there's an implication that it won't do the job?)
> ...


Interesting. I have hair that’s the length of my shoulder blades. It’s thick and wavy. I haven’t had issues with shampoo bars yet. What I was having issues with was a salon brand that went “mainstream”, and that now causes a reaction in my scalp. It also made a lot of my hair fall out. So I gave Royalty Soaps shampoo and conditioner bars a try. 
I can report that it’s not that hard for me to use them. It’s a little strange, and the first shampoo soap-up doesn’t have much lather. The second soap-up though has tons! 
At this point I’m more concerned with my scalp and hair loss than protecting my hair color. 
With the silver hair question, some people like to use a special shampoo that deposits temporary purple color to counter out the yellow some silver/white hair has. So every time they shampoo they are laying kind of a purple gloss over the hair. It makes the silver brighter looking and “cleaner” looking, even if it’s temporary.


----------



## Gaisy59 (May 31, 2022)

Hey my hair is curly and colored and i can tell you i love my shampoo bars. I haven’t formulated a conditioner yet but i just noticed recently that if i don’t use conditioner I don’t have the frizzies and my scalp doesn’t itch anymore. It’s great!

As for hairdressers…i see TaniaJane here in Winnipeg who was specifically trained to cut curly hair by a master stylist in Vancouver so yes curly hair is a different animal and needs a trained stylist. I love my cut since i started seeing her.


----------



## Arimara (Jun 1, 2022)

AliOop said:


> I don’t have super kinky Afro hair, but I have been told by more than one Black woman, “You have Black people hair!”
> 
> Needless to say, my hair is very dry, thick, curly, and frizzy. Having just spent the last ten days in a very humid area, it’s also HUGE.
> 
> ...


Afros come in all textures and you don't necessarily have to be black to have one, natural or not.  My main concern is moisture rentention, aside from how well a shampoo cleans my hair. My hair needs the most but it likes to hate a lot of product too.



Rsapienza said:


> Show them these pics….she pays $150 for a haircut!!! (She’s nuts) She uses them when she has color as well.View attachment 67075
> She uses my shampoo bars regularly!!! Those are all natural curlsView attachment 67074


$150 sounds about right for that type of hair when outside NYC. It's actually worth it too if the the stylist cut curly types of hair right. I've seen some curly hair pics...


----------



## Rsapienza (Jun 4, 2022)

Arimara said:


> $150 sounds about right for that type of hair when outside NYC. It's actually worth it too if the the stylist cut curly types of hair right. I've seen some curly hair pics...


That’s what she (my daughter) says. She says, “The struggle is real Mom. Be thankful you don’t know”. LOL


----------



## daisychain (Jun 7, 2022)

KiwiMoose said:


> 9) How do you store the bar between washes?



I see this one a lot on forums, like it's some great mystery how you leave a soap-like bar to drain. I've seen people share the strangest suggestions for this. It makes me wonder... am I really that old? Is a soap dish now some antique device? 



> 3) It will ruin my coloured hair



I know many people aren't really swayed by logic, especially when they have entrenched ideas, and kind of hate if you throw a whole lot of scientific references at them (which I don't understand ). So I don't know if you can really convince them with facts. But there's a lot of misunderstanding about what 'protects' hair colour. A lot of claims are just marketing and many 'colour protecting' shampoos really aren't anything special (I know consumers would hate to hear that though). 

Colour protection is not even about pH or how gentle the surfactants are, as some DIY sources claim (the latter can matter a bit but not as much as believed). The number one thing that strips hair colour is... water! So it's hard to avoid losing the colour. A few ingredients protect the colour, like dimethicone and cationic polymers. There's also a study showing Coco Glucoside or Cocamdipropyl Betaine can reduce colour fade, especially the latter, and especially if combined with dimethicone or a cationic polymer. If you use any of those ingredients, you can tell people you have colour protectants in your bars. 



> 1) My hair is long and thick ( and I guess there's an implication that it won't do the job?)



I have long, thick hair and was skeptical about using shampoo bars. I can't use, for example, thin shampoos that come in foaming bottles because they don't spread through my hair effectively. I thought the lather from a shampoo bar might be like that. But when I made my first shampoo bar, I was surprised how much I liked it. I don't use them for every wash but I do like them for a gentler wash between more clarifying washes. 

One tip I'll offer is I've found adding a gum helps make the lather more viscous and easier to distribute through my thick hair. I especially like cationic guar for this, because you get both conditioning and lather thickening.


----------



## Juggsy (Jul 22, 2022)

@KiwiMoose long time no see my fault. 
are you interested in selling the foaming apple surfactant? I'll buy it from you!! I couldn't imagine post being outrageous between NZ + QLD as I send things to Hawke's Bay regularly. 


also in reference to coloured shampoos. i formulate both blue and purple bars and my clients that use them love them. 


But, I do think they are a hard sell but for different reasons. I find it hard to compete because there are so many. 
and so so many bad ones. 
I tried someone close to me's bar before I was formulating and it turned me off. big time. 

Now, I know it was solely her bars. 

but what I do is include an information sheet with common questions. basically similar style to what your post was. 

"I have blonde hair and use..." and then the answer etc. 

Plus, I have science to back me up. but, I sell more liquid shampoo then shampoo bars. 

I find it good if you can get a mum hooked. I know that sounds bad. but, I always talk about my youngest and them going through a litre of shampoo and how when we switched the wastage stopped. But, I find mums are more willing to test on their children and husbands/wives then themselves. But when they do and they like the results they will try themselves. 

And their hair is amazing. We recently were at hairdresser and she was surprised with how healthy Amélie's hair was because it's bleached to hell and back. She said we must use a good shampoo and conditioner. I took a sample the next day up to her. But A only uses shampoo and conditioner bars and does use a de-tangling/leave in conditioner a couple of times a week.


----------



## KiwiMoose (Jul 23, 2022)

Hi @Juggsy !  I'm holding onto my foaming apple come hell or high water - I imported it from the USA and it cost a ton! LOL. I will eventually work my way through it.

I recently ordered some items from Aussie Soap supples and it still cost $65 (AU) for postage. I use Varisoft EQ65 in my shampoo bars also, and the sole supplier of that in NZ has stopped selling it, so i had to go further afield.

I like your idea of information leaflets - maybe I'll do that.


----------



## Juggsy (Jul 23, 2022)

KiwiMoose said:


> Hi @Juggsy !  I'm holding onto my foaming apple come hell or high water - I imported it from the USA and it cost a ton! LOL. I will eventually work my way through it.
> 
> I recently ordered some items from Aussie Soap supples and it still cost $65 (AU) for postage. I use Varisoft EQ65 in my shampoo bars also, and the sole supplier of that in NZ has stopped selling it, so i had to go further afield.
> 
> I like your idea of information leaflets - maybe I'll do that.


varisoft eq65 is a favourite. they've only stocked it for last couple of years. I first had to get from USA and it cost a fortune to send. I was happy when ASS started selling it. 

haha re: not selling, I wouldn't either - makes lovely face wash though. I have been using it in a sensitive face wash. I do like the foaming proteins and amino acids. They are great for sensitive skin.

unfortunate that I have to buy foaming proteins from USA or Canada. it costs so much. I would love to get an Aussie collective going. some things we just can't get here and some things are things I feel I can't live without like Buah Merah oil.


----------

