# Natural green colorants experiment



## szaza

So yesterday I made a small 250g batch divided into 5 soaps and colored with different colorants: wheetgrass, moringa, spirulina, matcha and pandan all 0,6g/50g of oil (which I think is about 2tsp ppo).
I've used wheatgrass and spritulina before so no big surprises there, but moringa, pandan and matcha were new.
The pandan turned out to be more of a juice than a puree. The soap separated after gel and it wasn't concentrated enough to give a good color. I tried to use a bit more in some leftover soap, but obviously that one separated even more (and it lost most of its color anyway) I want to try it as half of my water next time, because the color at trace was stunning and I've seen pretty pandan soap here: https://shopee.ph/Buco-Pandan-Soap-Bars-(vegan-organic)-i.51253087.1565796917
Moringa turned out to be just a bit darker than wheatgrass and speckled. I like it, but I think I still prefer either wheatgrass or spirulina at this point. Though I've got to say I'm totally in love with @Dawni's tumeric moringa soap so I might just have to give it another try.. maybe in the lye water or an infusion.
Matcha seems to need less powder to color soap than the rest of the colorants, I'm glad that one didn't mix in well, because otherwise I'd have all black soap[emoji23] the top has an ok olive green. 1tsp ppo might do the trick, though I've read someone doing a soap with matcha infusion and it looks stunning, so I might try that as well.. https://www.google.com/amp/s/infusionsblog.wordpress.com/2012/09/14/green-tea-soap/amp/

And... Here are the pics!
The spacing of the colorants in the pictures is the following:
Wheatgrass------------------Matcha
------------Moringa------------------
Pandan------------Spirulina---------

First up, the colorants:





Mixed in at trace (notice the leftover batter with lots of pandan in the second cavity from the left at the bottom)




Atfer gel (look at those alien brains!)




And the next morning:








I'll try to update on discoloration over time which was the goal of this experiment


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## Dawni

I'm glad you like my soap  You seem to have gotten a lot more color from the moringa than I've ever gotten, regardless of the amount of salt in my soap. But I also haven't tried it as an infusion or in the lye water.... 

So lemme see if I got this right... the deepest one, left most in the last pic is the spirulina, then wheatgrass, then moringa, and darkest one, right most is matcha?

Too bad about the pandan. I was looking forward to seeing what results you'd get. I love it in dessert lol now I have to add that to my list for HP as well hehehe


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## szaza

The deepest one is indeed spirulina. Then moringa and then wheetgrass (the lightest one). Matcha is the dark brownish soap and pandan the yellowish.

I'm definitely going to experiment more with pandan! I really think it could have potential, just not in this set-up. What usage rate did you use with moringa and did you gel or not? Might be important factors..


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## Dawni

Ah then I switched moringa and wheatgrass. I'm really liking the color of your moringa soap! I like that shade of green...


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## szaza

Haha I'm glad you like it, but I was actually going for a lighter color like yours[emoji6] It's 100% CO with 20%SF. 1,2g moringa/100g soap or 2tsp ppo and went gelled in the oven.. I'm sure you'll be able to get the same color[emoji6]


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## Mobjack Bay

@szaza - a bunch of nice green colors!  Please keep us posted on how/if the colors morph. Edited to add that I just noticed that you said you would post back.  Thanks!


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## Iluminameluna

Maybe using pandan frozen would help? I always do botanicals frozen to try to keep the natural color. Doesn't always work, but it does enough times.
Good luck!


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## szaza

Another try today: 
-Pandan for half the liquid with lye water. 
-Moringa powder dissolved in lye water (1,2% of weight of oils)
-Matcha infused in oils (1% of oil weight)
I split each batch in 2 and let half go through gel and half went in the fridge. Will update with pictures tomorrow

As promised, a longer write-up with pics.. 
From left to right: pandan, moringa and matcha (top=non-gel, bottom=gelled)

So first up is pandan. I was so excited to try this! I masterbatched my lye and added pandan as half of the liquid in a 2:1 lye concentration. The pandan turned brownish upon contact with the lye, but after mixing with oils (75% OO, 20%CO, 5% castor) it turned a lovely shade of pale green. Not yet what I had in mind, but better than the last try. I'd like to add a more concentrated paste to the batter at trace, but I'm not sure where to get it (my pandan is quite watery and the label says ingredients are pandan and water). 

Then moringa.. I wanted to see how the color of the powder added to lye would compare to powder added at trace. It's quite similar, maybe a bit deeper color (so you'd be able to use less if you add it to the lye water). I really like the soft green of the ungelled soap. It wasn't ready to unmold this morning so it's still sitting in the plastic drinking cup I used as individual mold for the ungelled soap. Recipe: 75% SAO, 20% CO, 5% castor. Moringa (1,2% of oil weight) mixed in distilled water and added to masterbatch lye solution. 

Last one: matcha. I wanted to try infused matcha, but didn't have a lot of time to infuse so I added matcha powder at 1% of total oil weight to my rice bran oil (75% of total), put it in the microwave for 2mins and let it steep for 15-20mins. The powder was too fine to sieve out, so I just left it in.. the soap at trace had the most wonderful matcha green color. The gelled soap turned brown in the oven but the ungelled soap looked wonderful when I went to bed.. and was also brown all around when I woke up this morning[emoji19] recipe: 75% RBO, 20% CO, 5% castor.






Pandan







Moringa







Matcha


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## Iluminameluna

I wish there was a way to preserve the green colors. That matcha is so pretty.


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## Kurt

Hi everyone, thought I'd add my attempt at natural green to the thread.

2nd bar from left: Infused 18% HOSF with parsley and 15% EVOO with parsley. 

3rd from left: same as 2 but added a little bit of black walnut powder to both infusions to darken it up.


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## szaza

Thought I'd just do a small update.. 
4 weeks into cure for the first batch, 3 weeks for the second batch.
In the 3x3 square left to right there's pandan, moringa and matcha; top to bottom colorants added to lye (ungelled), added to lye (gelled) and added to trace (gelled).
On the far right there's wheatgrass added to trace on top and spirulina added to trace below. 





Pandan is not strong enough, so I think next time I'll use it for full water instead of half and see how that goes. It seems like the ungelled soap has a nicer, fresher color. The one where I tried to add the liquid at trace (and separated because of it) actually still smells like pandan. I really want to get my hands on some pandan leaves and add a puree at trace to see how that works out! 
Moringa overall has a nice natural green color, though it looks a bit fresher (less brown) when added to the lye water compared to powder added at trace. With this one I like the color of the gelled soap better than the ungelled soap. 
Matcha is still brown. Really need to make a proper infusion next time!
Wheatgrass is a little lighter than moringa and spirulina is still a pretty blueish green (this is my favorite soaping color), though I know from experience it'll turn regular green over time and then fade.. I have an idea for an experiment with spirulina soap exposured to light and/or air to see if the color can be preserved better with improved storage conditions. There's also thishttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359511312000268 article that said salt and sugar might help improve phycocyanin stability, so I also want to try if spirulina retains its color better when there's salt and/or sugar in the soap. 
Lots of things to try and so little time.. [emoji26]


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## Mobjack Bay

szaza said:


> Thought I'd just do a small update..
> 4 weeks into cure for the first batch, 3 weeks for the second batch.
> In the 3x3 square left to right there's pandan, moringa and matcha; top to bottom colorants added to lye (ungelled), added to lye (gelled) and added to trace (gelled).
> On the far right there's wheatgrass added to trace on top and spirulina added to trace below.
> View attachment 40004
> 
> 
> Pandan is not strong enough, so I think next time I'll use it for full water instead of half and see how that goes. It seems like the ungelled soap has a nicer, fresher color. The one where I tried to add the liquid at trace (and separated because of it) actually still smells like pandan. I really want to get my hands on some pandan leaves and add a puree at trace to see how that works out!
> Moringa overall has a nice natural green color, though it looks a bit fresher (less brown) when added to the lye water compared to powder added at trace. With this one I like the color of the gelled soap better than the ungelled soap.
> Matcha is still brown. Really need to make a proper infusion next time!
> Wheatgrass is a little lighter than moringa and spirulina is still a pretty blueish green (this is my favorite soaping color), though I know from experience it'll turn regular green over time and then fade.. I have an idea for an experiment with spirulina soap exposured to light and/or air to see if the color can be preserved better with improved storage conditions. There's also thishttps://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359511312000268 article that said salt and sugar might help improve phycocyanin stability, so I also want to try if spirulina retains its color better when there's salt and/or sugar in the soap.
> Lots of things to try and so little time.. [emoji26]



Nice That would be great range of colors to work with for a swirled or layered soap.  I added the Spirulina article to my collection!

P.S. does your soap that separated look anything like these?  I think the batter may have separated and then overheated in the bottom layer of the mold. (But that’s just a guess and no one has offered up an opinion)


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## Dawni

Thanks for the update @szaza  



Mobjack Bay said:


> P.S. does your soap that separated look anything like these?  I think the batter may have separated and then overheated in the bottom layer of the mold. (But that’s just a guess and no one has offered up an opinion)


Try posting it in a separate thread... A lot of us don't really go much into that thread, and I assume a lot of the experts don't at all anymore.


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## earlene

Following!   Would love to learn if salt or sugar works for improving color stability in your soap colorants!


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## szaza

Mobjack Bay said:


> P.S. does your soap that separated look anything like these?  I think the batter may have separated and then overheated in the bottom layer of the mold. (But that’s just a guess and no one has offered up an opinion)



Not really, but maybe? I'm not sure.. here's a close up of the overheated/separated/stirred back together pandan soap (sorry, not very focussed, camera didn't want to work with me)










earlene said:


> Following!   Would love to learn if salt or sugar works for improving color stability in your soap colorants!


It might take a while!.. still don't have much soaping time at the moment[emoji6]


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## szaza

Update: now the first batch (different colors added at trace) has cured for 6weeks I decided to subject them to an experiment: I cut the soaps in 4 (not very equal) pieces and for the next few months I'll store them in 4 different conditions: 
1. Exposed to light and air (sitting uncovered in the window sill, behind the curtain so I don't see them but they get full light) 
2. Exposed to light but not air (wrapped in 2 plastic see-through baggies in the window sill) 
3. Exposed to air, not light (in the basement where I normally cure my soaps, they only get light when I come in to check on them)
4. Exposed to neither light nor air (in a plastic baggie in a closed container in the basement)
Hopefully this will give some insight into what's the main culprit in the fading of natural green colors: light, air or both[emoji6]


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## zajanatural

The middle layer of this soap was achieved with fresh spinach and dried alfalfa. The color is still strong.

https://www.instagram.com/p/By_1iRtH3rD/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet


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## Mobjack Bay

zajanatural said:


> The middle layer of this soap was achieved with fresh spinach and dried alfalfa. The color is still strong.
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/By_1iRtH3rD/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet


Nice green!  When did you make the soap?


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## zajanatural

Mobjack Bay said:


> Nice green!  When did you make the soap?


Early June.


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## Mobjack Bay

zajanatural said:


> Early June.


Great, thanks!


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## Dawni

zajanatural said:


> The middle layer of this soap was achieved with fresh spinach and dried alfalfa. The color is still strong.
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/By_1iRtH3rD/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet


I followed you hehehe
Which one is the rhubarb, top or bottom?


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## szaza

Turns out I didn't have to wait long to see the difference in fading..
One week in, these are the soaps kept in the basement and in the window sill side by side.
The soaps exposed to light (right) faded considerably more than the ones stored in the dark. They were both exposed to air.
Top to bottom: 
Spirulina
Wheatgrass
Moringa
Matcha





For those interested, the soaps that were exposed to air and light faded just as fast as the ones that were only exposed to light, not air as demonstrated in this picture. I'll leave them for a bit to see if a difference occurrs after a longer period of time, but I think light is the main culprit in fading.. especially of spirulina!


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## Mobjack Bay

szaza said:


> For those interested, the soaps that were exposed to air and light faded just as fast as the ones that were only exposed to light, not air as demonstrated in this picture. I'll leave them for a bit to see if a difference occurrs after a longer period of time, but I think light is the main culprit in fading.. especially of spirulina! View attachment 40436


That’s a really striking difference in the color of the Spirulina.  The others seem to have taken on more gold tones.  Is that how it looks to you?


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## szaza

Mobjack Bay said:


> That’s a really striking difference in the color of the Spirulina.  The others seem to have taken on more gold tones.  Is that how it looks to you?


That's exactly what it looks like to me! [emoji6]


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## Mobjack Bay

szaza said:


> That's exactly what it looks like to me! [emoji6]


We can use that knowledge .  Thanks for sharing your update.


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## penelopejane

Kurt said:


> Hi everyone, thought I'd add my attempt at natural green to the thread.
> 
> 2nd bar from left: Infused 18% HOSF with parsley and 15% EVOO with parsley.
> 
> 3rd from left: same as 2 but added a little bit of black walnut powder to both infusions to darken it up.
> View attachment 39668


What is HOSF?
What did you use (and how much) to colour the soap 4th from the left?
Have the colours still held?


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## earlene

penelopejane said:


> What is HOSF?
> What did you use (and how much) to colour the soap 4th from the left?
> Have the colours still held?



Probably either High Oleic Sun or Safflower Oil.   I think it's got to be one or the other.  Someone else here also used that same abbreviation, but it is confusing because only that one person knows what they mean.

Edit, no I think it was Kurt in another post somewhere, still it is not a commonly used abbreviation, so confusing to others.


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## szaza

Just wanted to cone back and update on the curing in light vs dark environment. Most greens that were sitting in the window sill have faded almost completely after 6 weeks.

The upper row has been sitting in the window sill, the lower row in the basement. 
Left to right: spirulina, wheatgrass, moringa and matcha. 
The greens that have been in the basement are also starting to fade a bit, but it's nothing compared to the ones subjected to lots of light. 

There's still no difference between the soaps that were packaged in plastic (no airflow) vs the ones that were unpackaged. So it seems like light is really the main culprit in fading of natural greens.


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## Cocolive

I think any pigment would fade because of sunlight. I can see it happens on cloths, any printed media, and now on soaps.

This leads me to look for some answer on the net, and here's what I've got: https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/29445/why-does-sunlight-cause-colors-to-fade


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## szaza

Thanks @Cocolive that's a great link!
Indeed most colorants fade. I'm not sure about micas because I've never used them, but natural colors are notorious for fading fast, especially greens. There was significant fading after 1 week and color is almost gone at 6 weeks, which means if you cure naturally green colored soaps in a light environment, color will be gone completely after cure. So even if most colorants react to light, this seems to be extreme with natural greens.
Someone (was it @earlene ?) also suggested oxigen/airflow might have an influence on fading of green colors, which I thought was an interesting experiment to make. Oxigen however seems less influential than light exposure.


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## earlene

I am wondering if Oxides are natural colorants?  I have a Red Brick Oxide that does not appear to fade at all.  I made soap with it about 3 years ago, I think and it's as dark now as it ever was.  I do have to admit that I don't store this soap in sunlight, though and that I did use more of the colorant than I should because it really does bleed a lot of pink into the lather when used.  

Oxides are not my colorant of choice, so I only have 3 that I bought when I attended a soap gathering and another soaper was de-stashing supplies.  They are from reputable soap suppliers, but without looking, I can't say which supplier for sure.

As for micas fading, some do and some don't.  I have a soap at sink-side, which gets sunlight through my kitchen window that is still as bright as the day I made them in Feb 2017.  I used some Micas & More really bright colors in that soap, in fact, they are almost psychedelic even still.  The only reason I put that bar of soap there is because the colors match the soap dish and the decor in my kitchen!  It's been in this location for several months with no visible fading.


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## szaza

Thanks for your input @earlene ! Very interesting that oxides don't seem to fade and only some micas do. 
When I wrote natural colorants I meant plant colorants, but indeed oxides are also considered natural, depending on who you ask. Should have been more specific about that.


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## Nanette

Oxidized metals are the "rust" of a metal--oxidized iron is rust, for example. The oxides here are lab created for purity as naturally found oxides often contain other minerals like arsenic or lead. I have read that there is a mine in France where the oxides come directly from the ground but it is a very pure source. Oxides can be a bit harder to use, as a little goes a looong way and they will come off on a washcloth if you use a lot. But they dont fade. There is also less color choice. Red seems to be the brick color, no lovely deep pinks and plums.


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## szaza

Just realized I should really update this thread! About a month ago I made a final attempt at matcha soap with a cold infusion and it worked! The soap is still green just when I was about to give up on matcha..
A few days ago I added my homemade frozen pandan at trace and that also worked, need to see how it holds up but it looks promising!!
(I'll try to come back later with pics)


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## Nanette

trying to get the smileys to work, sorry...


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## SoapySuds

I have good luck with spirulina for soap. Turns it a lovely green color that stays true


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## szaza

Thanks @SoapySuds ! Spirulina is still one of my faves as well it does fade for me after a while unfortunately.


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## Lin19687

can you post pics of the soaps Now to see how the color has changed since it has been about 4 months?
Maybe in the order they are in post #1


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## szaza

@Lin19687 I will.. having camera problems with my phone so I'm procrastinating, but I'm planning on making a detailed picture update


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## Nanette

I love spirulina too...my spirulina faded in a couple of months, alas. In melt and pour it is beautiful, in the clear mp....and lasted 8 months before fading to a nice yellow. I am trying chlorella now.


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## szaza

So first up, an update on the soaps made june 1st (colorants added at trace, 100% CO 20% sf recipe)
These are how they looked right after unmolding




And this is how they look now: 



Furthest left is moringa, furthest right is wheatgrass. 
In front left to right is spirulina, pandan, matcha.

Next are the soaps I made on the 7th of June. (Pandan as split lye, moringa with lye water, matcha hot infusion in oils)
This was right after unmolding



This was today


Left to right: pandan, moringa, matcha (back=ungelled, front=gelled)

(Edited to correct which soaps were gelled/ungelled)

This is soap made with a cold infusion of matcha (without the matcha powder) ungelled. Made early september. Picture taken today (1 month later)




This is the result of frozen pandan added at trace, made last thursday (october 3rd) it seems to slowly get darker.. (it was lighter right after unmolding)



I also did a failed experiment. I had infused some colorants in alcohol and surprisingly indigo infusion turned red and with spirulina none of the blueish component seemed to get into the infusion. So I hoped if I used the indigo and spirulina after infusion, the indigo would give a slightly different shade of blue and the spirulina would give a blueer green, but alas, they were just lighter versions of the same color (a girl can dream)


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## szaza

It's about time for another update!

First the latest soaps.


Left: Matcha infusion at +-20%, no proper notes taken, I think this was made early September (so +-5 months ago). No gel
Right: Frozen pureed pandan leafs added at trace (made early October, so 4 months ago). I don't remember if I gelled or not.. (again no proper notes.. sigh!)
Reference pictures in the thread above this one.

Lately I've been thinking about the influence of plant matter added to the soap in browning. I decided to compare all the soaps I made with moringa, which started green, but turned brown after a couple of months.
Here's a picture of 4 moringa soaps:


Left: moringa infused in ethanol, added after HP cook, no powder in the soap. Made mid august (5 1/2 months).
Second from the left: moringa powder added at trace CPOP. Made early June (7 months) There's a hint of green left in the brown.
Second from the right: moringa in lye water CP no gel. Made early June (7 months). It's light brown/beige.
Furthest right: moringa in lye water CPOP. Made early June (7 months). Slightly darker brown.
It looks like adding moringa to lye water makes it go brown faster/more completely than adding it to trace. The alcohol infusion is greener than the others were at 4 months, I'm curious if it will turn brown with time or if it will fade. I'm doing cold infusions of matcha, moringa, spirulina and alfalfa at the moment to hopefully do a comparison of plant powders added to lye/trace/infusion.

Earlier in this thread I mentioned an idea for a test to add sugar and/or salt to spirulina based on an article that found phytocyanin breaking down slower in the presence of sugar/salt. I attempted this yesterday, but halfway through my batter overheated and volcanoed in the jug, so I can't really compare the soaps properly. The one with sugar added looks slightly more intense in color, but by then I was already pretty much doing HP and it's not a good comparison (the salt one completely failed and got crumbly). I'll have to redo it..

(Edited because I accidentally already posted halfway through typing..)


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## szaza

I finally redid the spirulina with sugar/salt experiment and here's the result: 


Back row ungelled, front row oven gelled (quite aggressively and overheated) 
Left to right: no additives, sugar, salt, both. 
Gelling makes the color darker.
Sugar seems to make the color a bit more intense, while salt makes it lighter and speckled (I guess the spirulina had a hard time dissolving in water with salt added) both are a bit darker than salt alone, but still lighter than no additives.
The ungelled soap with sugar and salt had a blueish hue to it during the first few days but that has already disappeared. I'm curious to see if any of the additives will help prevent fading at all. 

For the technical details: 
I made soap with 50% lye contration and added the remaining water with the spirulina/additives. 
My individual cavities are 40ml, which is 27.67g oils/cavity.
I used both sugar and salt at 1Tbs ppo (or 0.75g/27.67g oils for sugar and 1.125g/27.67g oils for salt). 
Spirulina was added at 0.33g/27.67g oils (which is the usage rate of 1.2g/100g I normally use, or I think about 1-2tsp ppo, not sure how heavy spirulina is.


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## szaza

More color experiments! Comparing infusions from matcha, alfalfa, moringa and spirulina and some other colorants to adding the same colors at trace and tomorrow another batch of the same colors added to the lye water. These are going to bed (as well as I) and I'll write up an update during the weekend.


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## moodymama

szaza said:


> More color experiments! Comparing infusions from matcha, alfalfa, moringa and spirulina and some other colorants to adding the same colors at trace and tomorrow another batch of the same colors added to the lye water. These are going to bed (as well as I) and I'll write up an update during the weekend.
> View attachment 44483




I love the spirulina. What is the dark blue upper right corner?


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## szaza

moodymama said:


> I love the spirulina. What is the dark blue upper right corner?


It's alkanet infusion. I wish it would stay that color, but it turns purple as the pH of the soap drops.


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## szaza

Hold on tight, there's a lot of pictures coming.. I'll probably do multiple posts to avoid not being to upload all in one post. 

Let's start with an overview. It's been a busy weekend! (Back is gelled, front are the same soaps ungelled)


And an overview of only the greens: 


Back row are colorants added to the lye water (left to right alfalfa, spirulina, moringa, always one ungelled and one gelled next to each other)
Row in front of the back row are the same colorants added at trace (also always one ungelled, one gelled)
Row in front of that are the same colorants infused in oils and added at trace. 
Front row is all matcha infused oil. On the left are soaps made with an old infusion from an old bag that had been open for a few years (gelled and ungelled). Middle is a soap made with the same infusion in September (ungelled). Right is made with a 6 week old infusion from a recently opened bag of matcha (gelled and ungelled)


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## szaza

In general greens don't seem to do well in infusions unless you gel them (except matcha), though they do make nice pastel colors.
Adding green colorants to lye water makes the color less intense compared to adding it at trace.
Gelling makes colors darker, but sometimes also browner.

Now let's take a closer look at Alfalfa:


Left to right: infusion, added at trace, added to lye water.
Back row gelled, front row ungelled.

Adding Alfalfa to the lye water seems to lessen the color intensity compared to adding at trace.
Gelling makes the color darker, but also a lot browner.
The infusion didn't bring a lot of color to the soap, especially when left ungelled. I kind of like the freshness of the green in the gelled soap, but it won't really stand out among other colors.

Here's Moringa:


Again, left to right: infusion, added at trace, added to lye water.
Back row gelled, front row ungelled.

Moringa seems to be a bit darker than alfalfa, but within the same color scheme.
Adding it to the lye water seems to make the color less green and gelling makes it darker.
The infusion is still a very soft color, but just bright enough to stand out when gelled and I do really like this shade of green (but that's very personal)

Spirulina:


Again, left to right: infusion, added at trace, added to lye water.
Back row gelled, front row ungelled.
The middle ones (added at trace) were made last monday in another experiment.

Here again adding the colorant to the lye will make the color lighter than adding at trace and gelling darkens the color.
Infusion gives a very light color, a nice pastel when gelled. Interestingly the infusion looked completely uncolored with a few specks of powder that hadn't sunk to the bottom, so I'm curious if the soap would look the same with just a very small amount of spirulina dispersed in oil added at trace.

Matcha:


This one is a bit different because I only used infusions.
The left is a soap made in September and not gelled (same one as shown earlier in the thread) from an cold infusion of an old long open bag of matcha.
Middle is the same infusion but soap made this weekend.
Right is a 6 week old infusion from a newly opened bag of matcha.
Back row is gelled, front row ungelled.

Funny enough the old, ungelled soap is darker than the newer soap, while it had more time to infuse. 
The infusion from recently opened Matcha is lighter still, which is consistent with @Mobjack Bay 's finding in this thread.
Finally gelling makes the color of the soap more intense.

ETA: all my infusions are 1:15 and used at 20%. Powders added at 1.2g/100g (1-2tsp ppo)


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## szaza

I'll spend less time on the other colorants:

Indigo


Left is infusion at 20% (supposed to turn pink, turned blue on me at 22% and now just white..)
Next to that is slush from the bottom of the infusion added at trace.
Next to that is slush from the bottom of the infusion jar added to the lye water
And far right is regular indigo powder added to lye water (I was afraid the oil slush wouldn't incorporate well in the lye water, so wanted to have a backup)
Back row is gelled
Usage rate was 0.4g/100g for all of them.
ETA: infusion was a weak infusion as per Kapia Mera.

Alkanet infusion at 20%


Left one is gelled. Takes a week to get purple, so not much to see yet.

Paprika:


Again, left to right: infusion, added at trace, added to lye water.
Back row gelled, front row ungelled.

Brownish tones when powder is used and bright enough in infusion, so won't use powder anymore.
It does seem like adding to the lye water makes the color lighter.
Gelling makes the color more intense.
(Usage rate: 1:15 infusion at 20% and 1.2g/100g for powder)


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## szaza

There, I'm done with experimenting for a while.. off to make some pretty soap! (I hope)


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## atiz

These are really awesome, thank you so much!!! I will need to try some of them. But no soap for a while now


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## Jersey Girl

szaza said:


> I'll spend less time on the other colorants:
> 
> Indigo
> View attachment 44519
> 
> Left is infusion at 20% (supposed to turn pink, turned blue on me at 22% and now just white..)
> Next to that is slush from the bottom of the infusion added at trace.
> Next to that is slush from the bottom of the infusion jar added to the lye water
> And far right is regular indigo powder added to lye water (I was afraid the oil slush wouldn't incorporate well in the lye water, so wanted to have a backup)
> Back row is gelled
> Usage rate was 0.4g/100g for all of them.
> ETA: infusion was a weak infusion as per Kapia Mera.
> 
> Alkanet infusion at 20%
> View attachment 44520
> 
> Left one is gelled. Takes a week to get purple, so not much to see yet.
> 
> Paprika:
> View attachment 44521
> 
> Again, left to right: infusion, added at trace, added to lye water.
> Back row gelled, front row ungelled.
> 
> Brownish tones when powder is used and bright enough in infusion, so won't use powder anymore.
> It does seem like adding to the lye water makes the color lighter.
> Gelling makes the color more intense.
> (Usage rate: 1:15 infusion at 20% and 1.2g/100g for powder)



Thank you for sharing!


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## Mobjack Bay

@szaza Fantastic set of tests! Thank you for documenting your methods and sharing them.  Can you remind us what kind of plant indigo you're using? All of the colors look great.


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## szaza

Mobjack Bay said:


> @szaza Fantastic set of tests! Thank you for documenting your methods and sharing them.  Can you remind us what kind of plant indigo you're using? All of the colors look great.


Indigoferia tinctora. I keep forgetting there are different kinds..


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## Mobjack Bay

szaza said:


> Indigoferia tinctora. I keep forgetting there are different kinds..


I need to track down some of that kind.  It definitely seems strong and bluer than the kind I have, which is Baphicacanthus.


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## szaza

Mobjack Bay said:


> I need to track down some of that kind.  It definitely seems strong and bluer than the kind I have, which is Baphicacanthus.


It's very denim.. are all your indigo soaps baphicacantus? Because I loved the shade of blue you got when you added the indigo to the lye water and I'm a bit sad mine turned out so differently.


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## penelopejane

Mobjack Bay said:


> I need to track down some of that kind.  It definitely seems strong and bluer than the kind I have, which is Baphicacanthus.


Try dharma trading - organic indigo.  THey also have the synthetic type.


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## Ladka

I do not have _Indigofera tinctoria_ but I do grow Japanese indigo _Persicaria tinctoria_  in my garden. Right now I only have an amount of dry leaves, bluish in colour. I am ruminating on using them to dye soap. I'm certainly not going to perform any extensive trials, perhaps just add a pinch of crushed leaves at trace or in lye liquid.
I admire your sense for and systematic performance of all these trials, #szaza !


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## szaza

Ladka said:


> I do not have _Indigofera tinctoria_ but I do grow Japanese indigo _Persicaria tinctoria_  in my garden. Right now I only have an amount of dry leaves, bluish in colour. I am ruminating on using them to dye soap. I'm certainly not going to perform any extensive trials, perhaps just add a pinch of crushed leaves at trace or in lye liquid.
> I admire your sense for and systematic performance of all these trials, #szaza !


Well I'm looking forward to seeing the results! If you ever have too much of your home grown indigo I'd love to do a bunch of extensive tests and trials on them I should really get better at keeping plants alive..


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## Mobjack Bay

szaza said:


> It's very denim.. are all your indigo soaps baphicacantus? Because I loved the shade of blue you got when you added the indigo to the lye water and I'm a bit sad mine turned out so differently.


It doesn’t look like I answered this question.  Without checking, I’m fairly certain that I used the Baphicacanthus indigo powder for the soap where I put the indigo in the lye.  I seem to recall that it didn’t take much.  Possibly 1/4 tsp ppo.  I will try to remember to check tomorrow.  I was just looking at a bar of that soap earlier today.  The color is still a nice medium blue, but it’s probably faded some.  Maybe I should take a photo.

ETA: I needed to get up, so I checked my notes.  I used 1/8 tsp for 11 oz of oil.  I poured 1 oz. of boiling water over the indigo powder in the morning and made the indigo/lye and the soap that evening.  According to my notes, I strained the lye water through a piece of cotton cloth.  Unfortunately, I didn’t explain why


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## szaza

It's about one month since I made the last batch of test soaps, so time for an update! 

The spirulina+additives is 4 weeks and 3 days old today. 
This is what it looked like after unmolding



(Ltr no additives, sugar, salt, sugar+salt; front gelled, back ungelled) 

This is what they look like today (I accidentally put the ungelled soaps in front, so I flipped the image but it looks weird)


Ltr: no additives, sugar, salt, sugar+salt; front gelled, back ungelled)

The gelled soaps are already starting to turn brown, while the ungelled soaps turned a more leafy green (it lost its blue tint). Still a pretty color, but a stark difference with the first pictue. The ones with sugar still seem to be a bit darker in color.


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## szaza

Alfalfa at unmolding: 


Alfalfa today: 


Ltr infusion, trace, lye water; front ungelled, back gelled

The ungelled soaps have darkened a bit (this was already visible after one week, but I was too lazy to do an update)

Moringa at unmolding



Moringa today: 


Ltr infusion, trace, lye water; front ungelled, back gelled

Here the ungelled soaps darkened a bit as well

Spirulina at unmolding



Spirulina today: 


Ltr infusion, trace, lye water; front ungelled, back gelled

Ungelled infusion and added to lye water got darker, added at trace got lighter. Gelled added to lye water and trace got lighter.


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## szaza

Matcha at unmolding



Matcha today


All infusions. Left is a soap made in September with an infusion of old matcha (ungelled), middle is made with the same infusion one month ago (march), right is made with a new infusion of newly opened matcha. 
Front is ungelled, back is gelled. 

I don't see much of a difference, though the ungelled soaps might have become a bit darker. 

Here's an overview picture with all the green soaps made with infusions


Ltr: alfalfa, moringa, spirulina, matcha new, matcha old. Front ungelled, back gelled. White soap for color reference.


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## szaza

And the other colors.. 

Indigo at unmolding: 


 Indigo today: 


Ltr: infusion, bottom of infusion added at trace, bottom of infusion added to lye, new powder added to lye (far left is white soap for color reference). Front ungelled, back gelled. 

The gelled soaps from the indigo from the bottom of the infusion jar turned a bit purplish.

Alkanet at unmolding: 



Alkanet today: 


Infusion. Left gelled, right ungelled. 

Ungelled stayed very grey while gelled turned a bit more purple (reddish tones came more out over time)

Paprika at unmolding


Paprika today: 


Ltr infusion, trace, lye water; front ungelled, back gelled

The ungelled soaps got darker, while the gelled soaps (especially infusion) might have gotten lighter.


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## Mobjack Bay

That’s an impressive range of tests and a beautiful range of colors.  Makes me want to make soap


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## atiz

This is really awesome, thanks!!!

My green clay is starting to dry out and it is clay and is green, although rather pastel. Next time I may have to infuse the spirulina in alcohol longer, I only did 4 days because it seemed so dark in the little jar... I'm running out of isopropyl alcohol now unfortunately, which is not the best thing to run out of right now because every single place in the US seems to be out, but will continue the experiments when things settle down a bit. 
Meanwhile, I also want to make some soaps!


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## szaza

Just a quick update.. after 2 months the spirulina starts to really show a difference when salt was added to the soap. Here's an update.

After unmolding (2 months ago) 



1 month old



2 months old 


Ltr: no additives, sugar, salt, sugar+salt; front gelled, back ungelled.

The soaps have faded/browned a bit more, especially the gelled ones. The soaps where salt is added (the four on the right) seem to be greener/have less brown tones in their green, while the soaps with both sugar and salt (far right) have the brightest green colors - especially when you look at the gelled soaps the furthest right is quite a bit greener than the others.
Sugar alone seems to make the color a bit more saturated, but when combined with salt the difference is quite striking. (It's a bit harder to see in the picture than in person) 

So at 2 months, adding both sugar and salt to soap made with spirulina seems to help with color retention, though gelling makes the soap go brown earlier. Salt makes the soap less colorful initially, but the soaps stay pretty for longer (at least 2 months)


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## szaza

I also wanted to do a small update on the paprika soap, because this happened: 


Ltr: infusion, added at trace, added to lye water); front ungelled, back gelled

The soaps with paprika infusion completely faded (I think this happened around the 6 week mark, I'm not entirely sure anymore, should've updated sooner). The gelled soap still has a tiny bit of color, while the ungelled soap is completely white.
I've used paprika infusion before (I did a color test in January) and those didn't fade as badly as these even though they're 2 months older, so I'm not entirely sure what caused this sudden fading.


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## Kcryss

That's great @szaza! Thanks for the update!


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## boriana

Thank you @szaza ! Great  update!


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## szaza

Time for another update! 
Matcha cold infusion added at trace and fresh pandan, pureed and frozen added at trace. The matcha soap was made September 2019, pandan soap October 2019.
Pictures taken October 2019 (1 month old matcha, pandan right after unmolding)




This was in February (5 and 4 months old)



And this picture was taken about a week ago (12-11 months old)


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## szaza

Spirulina, soaps made early March

All colors are mixed in water added at trace. Front is gelled, back is ungelled. Left to right: no additives, sugar, salt, both sugar and salt.

After unmolding:



1 months old (april update)



2 months old (may update)



Almost 6 months:


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## szaza

I just got a reminder I have an appointment I completely forgot. I promise to come back and update on the other soaps!


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## szaza

Let's have a look at alfalfa.

After unmolding:



About a month later:



5,5-6 months:



Eta: forgot to mention, front = ungelled, back = gelled. Left= infusion, middle= added in oil at trace, right= added to lye water


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## szaza

Moringa (same set-up as alfalfa)

After unmolding: 


About a month later:


5,5-6 months:


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## szaza

Spirulina (again same set-up, except added to trace mixed in water)

After unmolding: 


About a month later:


5,5-6 months:



Spirulina added at trace is browning faster than added to the lye water, which I didn't expect. It's also browning faster than I'm used to. I'm wondering if adding spirulina mixed in water or mixed in oil might make a difference in color retention.


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## szaza

Indigo. Front ungelled, back gelled, (older pictures far left = infusion) left reused indigo from infusion added at trace, middel reused indigo from infusion added to lye water, right 'fresh' indigo powder added to lye water.

After unmolding: 


About a month later (furthest left = white soap for comparison)


5,5-6 months:


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## szaza

Alkanet (infusion, left gelled right ungelled)

After unmolding: 


About a month later:


5,5-6 months:



I've never had alkanet infusion fade so fast on me..


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## szaza

An lastly paprika

After unmolding: 


About a month later:


Two months in:


5,5-6 months:


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## szaza

Oh I completely forgot about matcha..
Left is one made in sept 2019. Middle is made in March with the same matcha powder infusion as the furthest left. Right is made with a new infusion from a freshly opened can (yes it came in a can). Front ungelled, back gelled.

After unmolding:


About a month later:


5,5-6 months:


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## Kathymzr

Wow! Thank you for posting these tests! The results here are really helpful! You are the bestest!


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## Ladka

Kathymzr said:


> Wow! Thank you for posting these tests! The results here are really helpful! You are the bestest!


The most bestest


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## KiwiMoose

Indigo gets my vote!


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## szaza

KiwiMoose said:


> Indigo gets my vote!


Indigo is awesome to work with!


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## Dawni

I love indigo too! I wish it weren't so hard to find or expensive here so I'm not using much of the little I have haha

Thank you for the updates @szaza! Between these and the alcohol infusions, my notes are becoming very detailed but very helpful.


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## KiwiMoose

Hope I'm starring this too far off topic @szaza - but does anyone know how to get a nice bright yellow?  Mica never seems to go bright enough.  Yellow and green and the problem children of soap colouring.


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## Dawni

Try annatto oil infusion @KiwiMoose
I'll show ya some pics of soap that's 6mos-1yr old n still nice n yellow. Later. Lol


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## szaza

Yup, annatto infusion is awesome!


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## Dawni

Dawni said:


> Try annatto oil infusion @KiwiMoose
> I'll show ya some pics of soap that's 6mos-1yr old n still nice n yellow. Later. Lol


Here's a pic





All sweet almond oil infused
Links to fresh soap pics from top clockwise:
1. Corner piece - HP
2. Big bar - CP with issues lol
3. Small slice - HP
I noticed they're more orange than yellow in the pics - they're not, they are a dark yellow. Although they've faded to a light orange, eh?


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