# Fish oil soap?



## Obsidian (Aug 4, 2017)

Has anyone used or heard of fish oil being used in soap? My mom has a few pounds of sturgeon fat and was wondering about using it in soap. I have no idea how to determine sap value


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## BrewerGeorge (Aug 4, 2017)

I can't even...


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## earlene (Aug 4, 2017)

No ideas here.  Just wanted to say, that was the one fish I never caught and always wanted to.  I really wanted sturgeon roe, but also just to be able to catch such a prehistoric looking fish was something I really wanted to do back when I was a fisherwoman and lived near the SF Bay Area.

Kevin Dunn's book, Scientific Soapmaking has some info about how to determine sap value for an unknown fat.  Also see this Power Point presentation from a lecture of his from 2006 about the process.


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## toxikon (Aug 4, 2017)

Well now I'm curious! How about a fish oil bar with neem? You could call it Stinky Suds. 

But in all seriousness... you should try it and report back.


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## Nao (Aug 4, 2017)

Oh! I've been wondering about that too...and where to get some fish fat:think:
My one pound koi fish single cavity mould arrived today and I would really want to make a fish fat soap with it. Imagine the cut soaps, fish head, tail, slice of the body with fins and scales and everything!


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## kchaystack (Aug 4, 2017)

According to this:

http://www.eccofeed.com/fish-oil-min-25-epadha

It is 187 mg KOH/g.  

DeeAnna has posted before how to convert the KOH value to the NaOH value.  But I did not see the type of fish the oil came from - so that might make a difference.


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## DeeAnna (Aug 4, 2017)

In my notes, I have salmon oil at 185 for KOH and 132 for NaOH. Close enough to KC's numbers as to make never no mind.

Divide the KOH sap value by 1.403 to get the NaOH sap value.

Never tried fish oil in soap (and probably won't, but never say never!). The old books about soap making talk about using fish oil and "train" oil (whale oil) to make soft (KOH) soap. Again from the old books, these fats can have a distinct odor, so just be aware of that. I think it was more often made in the Scandanavian countries where fishing and whaling were common.


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## Obsidian (Aug 5, 2017)

Thanks for the help folks. I'll render the fat out this fall once its cooler as I want to do it in a low temp oven. Sturgeon are really interesting fish, they are extremely mild tasting and smelling. The fat has virtually no odor or flavor and is butter yellow.

If I get enough oil, I'd like to try a 100% fish bar just so I can check shelf life. Otherwise, I'll probably only use 10% in a regular bath soap. You never know, it could be the next hot ingredient:shark:


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## Seawolfe (Aug 5, 2017)

As we all know, lard is fabulous, and Carolyn made some really nice chicken fat soap. There's insanity over Emu oil - so I would imagine it could make a really gentle facial soap.


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## SunRiseArts (Aug 6, 2017)

I saw the title, and thought ewww.  But who knows?  If the smell does not carry, might be ok.


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## DeeAnna (Aug 6, 2017)

It's going to be a soap high in linoleic and linolenic acids, so it's probably not going to be the longest lived soap. You could tout it as a high-end facial soap due to the high Omega 3 content.


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## Perly Melkersen (Jan 9, 2019)

Anyone know about a good recipe for using cod liver oil? I've tried out using 100% cod oil, but it didn't smell too good (shocker..) Since then I've testet out everything between 10% and 100%. Down on 10% I tried using cod oil+olive oil, but the fish smell was still there. I'm interested in making both hard and liquid soap. Can't figure out which ethereal oil that's needed for getting rid of the odd smell.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 9, 2019)

The odd smell is due to the nature of the fat, so I don't think you're going to ever get away from it entirely. We see the same thing with neem oil and pine tar -- the odors of these ingredients are distinctive and persist even when one uses small amounts.

What superfat have you used in your cod oil soaps? At the very least, I would try a very low superfat to minimize the amount of free fat in the soap. Not saying that will eliminate the odor, but it might minimize it.


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## Perly Melkersen (Jan 9, 2019)

Hello again. 
I've tried myself down to 10% fish oil. 
I would have liked 20%
 What I wonder about are other oils that are good to have with fish oil? 
And what essential oil? If there is someone who can help me with a recipe?


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## DeeAnna (Jan 9, 2019)

I hope someone can help you with your questions. Due to the cost and the smell, I have never used fish oil in soap, so I have no suggestions to offer. Sorry!


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## MGM (Jan 10, 2019)

I made a "Kitchen Smells" soap that was based on a "Fisherman's Bar"...apparently lemongrass and anise are both good at countering fishy smells, and coffee was used as an exolfiant. I can't really report how it did on the fishy smells as I never smell THAT FISHY, but they are strong scents and might work well to hide your CLO.


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## Halibaal (Jul 21, 2019)

I just tried this actually! The one on the right is 100% fish oil soap with a 50% water discount. (Made using capsuled fish oil from the vitamin bottles) The trace took a long time and was barely noticable it took about 3 days to be solid enough to cut and i can tell you it smells just as strongly fishy as the raw oil did, I do like the smooth creamish texture it has though (im not sure if it will harden considerably more or not) The lather is surprisingly good and doesnt leave hands overly dry, theres a slight fishy scent left behind but its not terrible, more oceany. I can only assume using a hand rendered fish oil would he even better.


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## Mobjack Bay (Jul 21, 2019)

Having spent plenty of time during my younger days on boats that reeked of dead fish, I can’t imagine making soap with fish oil.  I hope you enjoy it though .


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## RobinRogers (Jul 22, 2019)

Just wondering if adding a FO like a sea breeze type of something would make it any better? I’m not really so excited to try it though!


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## Halibaal (Jul 22, 2019)

RobinRogers said:


> Just wondering if adding a FO like a sea breeze type of something would make it any better? I’m not really so excited to try it though!


At 100% fishoil the smell it leaves on your hands isnt too bad! Buuuuut the soap itself smells reaaaaalllllly strong- and I am concerned about shelf life, i think maybe a 75/25 coconut oil and fish oil sea breeze scented salt bar would be nice! Maybe even with kelp powder, hmm...


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## Koan Fala (Oct 24, 2020)

Hello. Maybe this thread is dead or too old, but my experience with oils that smell started with a batch of 100% grass fed butter that went rancid. The soap came out amazing, and even my choice of EO was perfect, but after washing with it, you were left with a lingering hint of vomit smell. Naturally that's a batch for the garbage. But my conclusion was that the bad smell from the rancid oil was due to the super fatting. Had I not super fatted (which I did 2% maybe even 4%) the chemical reaction would have levelled out the rancid.

So I tried again with a batch of beef tallow, only slightly rancid... just a bit of a funky smell, especially when heated. So I did 0 super fatting. Un-molded it, and so far, so good. No bad smell... just great EO that I put in. Anecdotal for me at this point about that theory of super fat. 

Tomorrow I'll make a batch with a weird blend of about 50% chicken fat 40% peanut oil and 10% sardine oil.


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## shunt2011 (Oct 25, 2020)

Koan Fala said:


> Hello. Maybe this thread is dead or too old, but my experience with oils that smell started with a batch of 100% grass fed butter that went rancid. The soap came out amazing, and even my choice of EO was perfect, but after washing with it, you were left with a lingering hint of vomit smell. Naturally that's a batch for the garbage. But my conclusion was that the bad smell from the rancid oil was due to the super fatting. Had I not super fatted (which I did 2% maybe even 4%) the chemical reaction would have levelled out the rancid.
> 
> So I tried again with a batch of beef tallow, only slightly rancid... just a bit of a funky smell, especially when heated. So I did 0 super fatting. Un-molded it, and so far, so good. No bad smell... just great EO that I put in. Anecdotal for me at this point about that theory of super fat.
> 
> Tomorrow I'll make a batch with a weird blend of about 50% chicken fat 40% peanut oil and 10% sardine oil.


You may want to start a new thread as totally off topic.  Was regarding fish oil.  
there are many threads on using rancid oils but it’s not generally recommended unless just for personal use.  

welcome to the forum.  Be sure to go to the introduction forum and tell us a bit about yourself.


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## BrewerGeorge (Nov 2, 2020)

The vomit smell with butter is butyric acid, not rancidity.  The freshest butter will still smell that way.


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## Megan (Nov 2, 2020)

Butyric acid is vile. My org. chem. professor carried an open jug of it around the science building one day... I think he thought it was funny


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## Koan Fala (Nov 2, 2020)

Megan said:


> Butyric acid is vile. My org. chem. professor carried an open jug of it around the science building one day... I think he thought it was funny


Isn't butyric acid a sign of rancidity? Fresh butter smells sweet. You'd think if you can afford it, it's a great soap base.


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## DeeAnna (Nov 2, 2020)

You're confusing the smell of a triglyceride fat (butterfat) with the smell of a fatty acid. Two different things.

It's like comparing the harsh odor of raw onions with the rich aroma French onion soup.


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## AliOop (Nov 2, 2020)

Koan Fala said:


> Isn't butyric acid a sign of rancidity? Fresh butter smells sweet. You'd thing if you can afford it, it's a great soap base.


All butter has butyric acid in it. You just don't smell it much until you put it into soap.


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## Megan (Nov 3, 2020)

Koan Fala said:


> Isn't butyric acid a sign of rancidity? Fresh butter smells sweet. You'd thing if you can afford it, it's a great soap base.


Yes, technically, but that is because the fatty acid is cleaved from the triglyceride when the butter goes rancid. So like DeAnna said, you can't typically smell it in fresh butter because it is part of the triglyceride, but when it exists as a fatty acid, it smells horrible.


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## The Park Bench (Nov 3, 2020)

Mmmmm


DeeAnna said:


> You're confusing the smell of a triglyceride fat (butterfat) with the smell of a fatty acid. Two different things.
> 
> It's like comparing the harsh odor of raw onions with the rich aroma French onion soup.


....mmmmm I like French Onion soup


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## Quessia (Jul 30, 2022)

I have this feeling that using fish oil with nh4oh might give you the best results. Now i DO understand that now all the ingredients are strong stinkers, from oils rich in amino smell to ammonia water (at least industrial strength) it seems counterintuitive, but i have this weird feeling that quaternary ammonium salts are created, scentless, and the richest soap money could buy.


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