# Has anyone ever had issues selling soap? Been sued?



## miggymoo

I hate to bring this up since I'm sure we all strive to make quality soap. But after reading the are you ready to start your soap business I got kinda freaked out. I was not planning on selling my soap for a while but there is quite a demand for it at my place of business so I said ok I'll sell it. I haven't registered as an llc or anything so I feel very vulnerable. Has anyone ever been sued or had any complaints?


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## janie

I never had a problem other someone broke out in small rash related to the fragrance oil.  I listed every ingredient on the soap but the scent was pear fragrance oil.  She actually broke out in a horrid rash her friend told me from bare essentials which is extremely rare.  She only uses irish spring now, go figure.  We can only do what we can, I do have insurance through my home owners.


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## janie

I forgot to mention I heard a soapmaker attempting to be sued because the said customer got the soap in her eyes and it burned like most soap.  I put a label on mine for the precautions not to be used internally or in the eyes or eaten.  You just have to protect yourself, most people won;t sue over an allergy unless not mentioned on the label, but you still have to protect yourself.


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## miggymoo

Yeah. I wonder how much I can  actually fit on a label


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## Guest

miggymoo said:
			
		

> I hate to bring this up since I'm sure we all strive to make quality soap. But after reading the are you ready to start your soap business I got kinda freaked out. I was not planning on selling my soap for a while but there is quite a demand for it at my place of business so I said ok I'll sell it. I haven't registered as an llc or anything so I feel very vulnerable. Has anyone ever been sued or had any complaints?



Go ahead and make an llc, even if you are not ready to sell yet. They are very cheap, in my state its only $40. It may be more where you live, but its not alot.


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## Guywithsoap?

I was looking into the cost of forming an LLC in NY and it looks expensive. The initial fee is not much, $35-40, but there are secondary issues. You have to run advertisements publicizing the formation in _two_ newspapers as well  as a minimum yearly fee of at least $325.

http://www.legalzoom.com/llc-faq/llc-operating-costs.html

If someone was looking to sell on ETSY or some other similar site, then it seems that they would need to sell an awful lot to cover this.


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## Guest

Well we must just be lucky, there is no such requirement in our state. It is $35 and that's it. You may have to submit the annual report but you do not have to pay these absorbent fees. Is it not possible to form your llc in another state and run your biz. from that location? This may be possible if you live near state lines...


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## sarawithouth

$300 in Texas, but it's good to file before opening.


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## miggymoo

$125 in pa


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## miggymoo

Oh man pa is actually $125 plus:
Pennsylvania requires all limited liability companies to file annual registration. Annual Registration fees start at $380 per year, and is equal to $380 multipled by the number of members of the LLC. These fees are payble to the Pennsylvania Department of State.

Any other options?


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## Guest

TikiBarSoap said:
			
		

> Well we must just be lucky, there is no such requirement in our state. It is $35 and that's it. You may have to submit the annual report but you do not have to pay these absorbent fees. Is it not possible to form your llc in another state and run your biz. from that location? This may be possible if you live near state lines...



Actually I think the entire thing may be $150 if you add up all the various fees, but to get started I think the fee is really low. I am in the process now and that is what I was told, but there may be some hidden fee somewhere  :evil:


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## BakingNana

miggymoo said:
			
		

> Yeah. I wonder how much I can  actually fit on a label



The INCI ingredient lists on my labels is so tiny; it meets FDA size requirements, but I'd bet 80% of my customers can't read it without a magnifying glass!  At shows, I have a product ingredients sheet laying on the table, with the ingredients listed in plain old English.  I have to say in general people are put off by the INCI codes.  I have to explain why ingredients are listed that way.


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## Tabitha

janie said:
			
		

> I forgot to mention I heard a soapmaker attempting to be sued because the said customer got the soap in her eyes and it burned like most soap.  I put a label on mine for the precautions not to be used internally or in the eyes or eaten.  You just have to protect yourself, most people won;t sue over an allergy unless not mentioned on the label, but you still have to protect yourself.



Placing a disclaimer on a label will not prevent costly lawsuits & will not guarantee you a win.

To answer the OP, chances are you will not find anyone on this forum that has been sued. Soapmakers who have been sued have probably given up soapmaking & faded away. They would not still be here hanging around to tell their tale. I can remember several soap makers, over the years saying they were being sued & 1 by 1 they dropped off the planet.


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## Harlow

TikiBarSoap said:
			
		

> Well we must just be lucky, there is no such requirement in our state. It is $35 and that's it. You may have to submit the annual report but you do not have to pay these absorbent fees. Is it not possible to form your llc in another state and run your biz. from that location? This may be possible if you live near state lines...



Color me stupid  , but I don't know what an 'absorbent fee' is.


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## Guest

Harlow said:
			
		

> TikiBarSoap said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well we must just be lucky, there is no such requirement in our state. It is $35 and that's it. You may have to submit the annual report but you do not have to pay these absorbent fees. Is it not possible to form your llc in another state and run your biz. from that location? This may be possible if you live near state lines...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Color me stupid  , but I don't know what an 'absorbent fee' is.
Click to expand...



Absorbant just means capable of absorbing - so I was kinda being silly and making a play on words. Because the form I filled out required $35, but because I am in the process of getting my llc now, there may be more money absorbed in the process, hence leading to an absorbent fee ;P

It was just my lame attempt at humor  :roll:


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## miggymoo

I have a local shop interested in buying wholesale from me. After reading the are you ready to sell your soap thread I am kind of nervous. I only plan to use one recipe to start with. I haven't had any problems and many people have tried this recipe and loved it. People are so sue happy these days though.... I might be over thinking it...


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## soapbuddy

miggymoo said:
			
		

> I have a local shop interested in buying wholesale from me. After reading the are you ready to sell your soap thread I am kind of nervous. I only plan to use one recipe to start with. I haven't had any problems and many people have tried this recipe and loved it. People are so sue happy these days though.... I might be over thinking it...


How long have you been making soap?


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## carebear

I don't believe you are over thinking it.  If you have an expertise, if you have stability data on your soap, if you know every batch will be safe, then think about it.  But it takes more than just a few months of soaping to have all your ducks in a row.

Even the record keeping can be a nightmare.  Do you record your raw material batchs so that you can match them up with your soap batches?  If someone does have a problem then you will need to be able to prove you have good record keeping.  Just for starters.


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## Guest

carebear said:
			
		

> I don't believe you are over thinking it.  If you have an expertise, if you have stability data on your soap, if you know every batch will be safe, then think about it.  But it takes more than just a few months of soaping to have all your ducks in a row.
> 
> Even the record keeping can be a nightmare.  Do you record your raw material batchs so that you can match them up with your soap batches?  If someone does have a problem then you will need to be able to prove you have good record keeping.  Just for starters.



Yeah, this is so true. You should keep a log of each batch you make. I have a soaping notebook for this purpose, where I record literally everything - temp of soaping, amount of H2O, amount of NaOH, amounts of oils, amounts of FO, colorants, if I added Vit E, how long it took to trace, etc. I date it and I have one log entry per page. 

Once you are ready to sell you have to have great financial record keeping for tax purposes as well.....


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## BakingNana

...and don't underestimate the time involved in doing the paper work.  Holy cow; I spend 9 tenths of my time on "office" work.  Thank God for good software.


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## miggymoo

I've been making soap for ~ 6 months now. I don’t want to sell it right away but I do want to make this contact so that after I am comfortable and have my ducks in a row I can go back to her and say HEY! I am ready!!  She is super interested in supporting the locals which is GREAT!

Just some background about me-  I am a principal scientist for a biotech company and have been working in the quality operations end of the business (11 years) so I am definitely insistent on the quality of my product. I am clueless as to the business end of things though so I've been thinking about taking a business class to learn how to write a business plan. I have been keeping a log but not as detailed as you mentioned TikiBarSoap. I think I will definitely start to keep more detailed records. 
I appreciate everyone’s advice!


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## Guest

miggymoo said:
			
		

> I've been making soap for ~ 6 months now. I don’t want to sell it right away but I do want to make this contact so that after I am comfortable and have my ducks in a row I can go back to her and say HEY! I am ready!!  She is super interested in supporting the locals which is GREAT!
> 
> Just some background about me-  I am a principal scientist for a biotech company and have been working in the quality operations end of the business (11 years) so I am definitely insistent on the quality of my product. I am clueless as to the business end of things though so I've been thinking about taking a business class to learn how to write a business plan. I have been keeping a log but not as detailed as you mentioned TikiBarSoap. I think I will definitely start to keep more detailed records.
> I appreciate everyone’s advice!



Just pretend its lab notes  You will be fine. I don't think you necessarily have to take a business class, but you do have to educate yourself. Getting some sort of accounting software would be good too. You can use Excel as well if you keep really meticulous records, but I think Quickbooks or Peachtree or something is probably easiest. Hiring a marketing professional for 5% of your sales would probably be a good idea too. I have been looking for one now so that once I am ready to sell I can have them help me with branding.  But first I have to get my LLC. I have insurance already through so thats good.


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## LauraHoosier

I think THE easiest software to use is SoapMaker3.  I had Peachtree and I've used it as a bookkeeper for a good while but I hated it now that I lost my accounting abilities due to my disability.  For $89 for the SoapMaker3 Pro edition I went from crying because I had to accept another defeat to grinning at how easy it was to set up and enter everything.

I entered 6 months worth of info in about 2-3 days including entering my own recipes, all FO and EO WITH their INCI names where not automatically added.  Granted I've only sold like 4 bars of soap recently so I didn't have all that to enter but I'd only guestimate that it would add 1 more day to your set up time to add yours.

Also available is the SoapMaker3 Lite for hobbyists.

http://www.soapmaker.ca/


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## Guest

For $89 for the SoapMaker3 Pro edition

That is cheaper than Peachtree! I will check it out, thanks


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## Padamae

TikiBarSoap said:
			
		

> carebear said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe you are over thinking it.  If you have an expertise, if you have stability data on your soap, if you know every batch will be safe, then think about it.  But it takes more than just a few months of soaping to have all your ducks in a row.
> 
> Even the record keeping can be a nightmare.  Do you record your raw material batchs so that you can match them up with your soap batches?  If someone does have a problem then you will need to be able to prove you have good record keeping.  Just for starters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, this is so true. You should keep a log of each batch you make. I have a soaping notebook for this purpose, where I record literally everything - temp of soaping, amount of H2O, amount of NaOH, amounts of oils, amounts of FO, colorants, if I added Vit E, how long it took to trace, etc. I date it and I have one log entry per page.
Click to expand...


Is it a good idea to document which co for an example noting when the said oil was received and from which supplier? Or am I making thus to hard.


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## khermsen

TikiBarSoap said:
			
		

> For $89 for the SoapMaker3 Pro edition



I purchased SoapMaker3 Pro a couple of months ago, so far I really like the program.  Input the supplies and recipes to have a running inventory and product cost analysis  Another feature I like is the simplicity of measurement conversion and resizing of recipes.


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## donniej

Shortly after getting involved in selling soap, I decided to go back to school for business (to better learn soap business).  2 years later I'm close to having an associates degree, have read many related books and have spoken to a couple lawyers in depth about my plans.  

It is my opinion (and that of the lawyers) that there is little protection in having a corporation or LLC if you are operating a business out of your home and are the only employee.  The mandatory filings and meetings are also citical to maintaining corporate protection.
To be on the safe side I would also suggest that the "owner" of the corporation not be the sole shareholder and sole member of the board of directors.  

Failure to follow all the above steps could result in "peircing of the corporate veil" if someone took the business owner to court.  It would go something like this...

Plaintiff's lawyer - "So Mrs. Smith, you calim that XYZ Inc. is a corporation and therefore should shield you personally from liability.  Isn't it true that you're the president, only shareholder and the corporations only address is that of your home?  Therefore is your company *really* a corporation or a sole proprietorship trying to use a corporation for protection...".  

The judge may then dismiss corporate protections, enabling the plaintiff to go after the business owner (and his/her home, cars, retirement, savings, etc...).  It is therefore my suggestion that if your business operates out of your home and has no employees other than yourself then you might as well make it easy and be a sole proprietorship... and carry more than enough insurance!


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## Tabitha

Welcome back Donnie!


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