# Four weeks or six weeks?



## SunRiseArts (Feb 27, 2017)

I made my second ever CP soap a month ago.  I so want to try it.  Do I have to wait the 6 weeks, or is it safe to use now?

Thanks in advance! 
:bunny:


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## penelopejane (Feb 27, 2017)

SunRiseArts said:


> I made my second ever CP soap a month ago.  I so want to try it.  Do I have to wait the 6 weeks, or is it safe to use now?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



It is safe to use the day it stops zapping - about the 2nd day after it was taken out of the mold. 

Use it and discover its characteristics.  Those characteristics will only get better over time.


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## mx5inpenn (Feb 27, 2017)

It should be safe to use. Did you zap test it? That is always the determining factor for safe to use as far as lye. So long as it isn't lye heavy, go for it! Just remember that it will continue to get better with more time. I prefer 3 months or older for my recipes.


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## IrishLass (Feb 27, 2017)

Yep- it's safe to use as long as it doesn't zap, but don't let any probable underwhelming performance at that time fool you into thinking that that's the best it will ever be or that your recipe sucks or anything like that. As I always like to say- 'safe-to-use' is not the same as 'cured/optimum-time-to-use'. My soap normally reaches what I consider to be its 'earliest best' at 4 weeks, but longer is even better, of course.


IrishLass


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## Seawolfe (Feb 28, 2017)

I find undercured soaps kind of harsh and drying. Feel free to use them now - see if and how they get better as they age


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## TwystedPryncess (Feb 28, 2017)

Definitely cut a strip or save an ugly end and test it every few weeks or even every week. If you can have someone  with you to take pictures of your hands as you lather it will help a lot, especially if your brain (doesn't )function, as mine tends to. Add these with Notes in a notebook under the recipe where you made the batch. It will help to keep track of not only the recipe itself but the particular batch. My twin girls loved playing photographer or even being the guinea pig. I guess I will have to draft my old man now that we ran off from all the kids! Haha!


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## BrewerGeorge (Feb 28, 2017)

I almost always sneak a bar at four weeks if it's a new scent.  I consider that bare minimum, but it's most likely not as good as it's going to be.  Try a bar about every four weeks if you can stand the wait.


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## SunRiseArts (Feb 28, 2017)

Thank you all for the answers!  I does not zap, so I guess I can try it 
I did not know that the more you wait, the better it gets.  That is going to be a challenge for me, as I am not the patient kind!


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## Seawolfe (Feb 28, 2017)

SunRiseArts said:


> Thank you all for the answers!  I does not zap, so I guess I can try it
> I did not know that the more you wait, the better it gets.  That is going to be a challenge for me, as I am not the patient kind!



This is why you have to make a new batch or two every week. That way you have so much soap to use that patience becomes easier


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## BrewerGeorge (Feb 28, 2017)

Seawolfe said:


> This is why you have to make a new batch or two every week. That way you have so much soap to use that patience becomes easier



Yep!


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## Susie (Feb 28, 2017)

My larger mold yields 9 bars and 1 sample size.  My smaller mold yields 7 bars and 1 sample size.  Guess what I use starting at 4 weeks?

But when you are learning, my advice is to test starting at week 1, then once a week thereafter.  Write yourself notes on how that lather feels.  Then you will understand why a good long cure is good for the soap.


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## dixiedragon (Feb 28, 2017)

Try it, but reserve your final judgment. 

Also, pics please.


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## IrishLass (Feb 28, 2017)

SunRiseArts said:


> I did not know that the more you wait, the better it gets.  That is going to be a challenge for me, as I am not the patient kind!


 
Here's an excellent abbreviated post by our DeeAnna on what happens during cure and why it's definitely worth the wait: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=548993&postcount=11

....and here's her more recent, in-depth, vastly more detailed explanation (keep reading through each of her posts from #51 to #55): http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=35831&page=6 


IrishLass


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## Arimara (Mar 1, 2017)

Seawolfe said:


> This is why you have to make a new batch or two every week. That way you have so much soap to use that patience becomes easier



I'm still suffering from the aftermath of doing that. So much soap to use and I have nerve enough to make more for thw challenge too.


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## SunRiseArts (Mar 1, 2017)

I can relate to having too much soap! 

Well I tried on the shower today, and it felt amazing!


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## TeresaT (Mar 1, 2017)

SunRiseArts said:


> I did not know that the more you wait, the better it gets.



Yes.  Oh my gosh YES!  I found some old soap in the back of my closet that I had completely forgotten about.  I pulled out my notes and discovered it was three batches of rebatched soap that was 16 months old.  Some were 100% olive oil, some were my standard recipe and some were my standard recipe with shea butter added.  All of them were hard as a rock, produced an incredible lather and last longer than a younger bar.  However, the incredible feeling my skin had getting out of the shower when using one of those bars cannot be compared to any other soap.  The mildness of a well-cured bar of soap cannot be beat.    Because of that unexpected discovery, I've decided to allow my soaps to cure for a year.   I usually wait 3 to 6 months, but I'm going for a full year now.  Since I have soooooo much soap on hand, that shouldn't be too much of a problem.


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## LunaSkye (Mar 2, 2017)

Arimara said:


> I'm still suffering from the aftermath of doing that. So much soap to use and I have nerve enough to make more for thw challenge too.



I had to stop making soap for over a year because I made so much. I never had to buy any from the store, but I couldn't use them fast enough. Luckily I was able to give most of my soaps to a friend so I can now start on some new recipes. 

SunRiseArts: I hope you graduate to HP soap-making. It is trickier to pull off at times than a CP soap, but you can use it sooner.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Mar 2, 2017)

CAN yes, but it still needs a cure or it a) won't be the best and b) will go to mush and disappear in the shower much faster than if you leave it for 4 weeks like you would cp


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## Arimara (Mar 2, 2017)

LunaSkye said:


> I had to stop making soap for over a year because I made so much. I never had to buy any from the store, but I couldn't use them fast enough. Luckily I was able to give most of my soaps to a friend so I can now start on some new recipes.
> 
> SunRiseArts: I hope you graduate to HP soap-making. It is trickier to pull off at times than a CP soap, but you can use it sooner.



Technically yes but a gelled CP soap isn't much different.


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## LunaSkye (Mar 4, 2017)

Arimara said:


> Technically yes but a gelled CP soap isn't much different.


That much is true.  Just a matter of if you want a specific oil for the SF, but I will admit that gelled CP soaps look nicer.


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## SunRiseArts (Mar 4, 2017)

IrishLass thank you for the links, forgot to say that earlier, I will sure read them, and I have an update ........ :

At the beginning it felt amazing, but as the bar got small, I found it was feeling like burning my skin. Well I guess I deserve it .... putting aquaphor on my face now .... it does not look red or anything, so I guess I will survive.:

In my crazy mind I am thinking the soap cures from the outside in, but maybe I am just crazy 

I had made soap before, but only HP or rebatch. I do like the rustic look but wanted to try an artistic approach. I tried the hot process fluid method, but it does not always work, so is why now I am trying the CP. 

I am an oil painter, so the idea of my soaps looking like art is very appealing.



dixiedragon said:


> Try it, but reserve your final judgment.
> 
> Also, pics please.


 

lol This is the one I tried:









TeresaT said:


> Yes. Oh my gosh YES! I found some old soap in the back of my closet that I had completely forgotten about. I pulled out my notes and discovered it was three batches of rebatched soap that was 16 months old. Some were 100% olive oil, some were my standard recipe and some were my standard recipe with shea butter added. All of them were hard as a rock, produced an incredible lather and last longer than a younger bar. However, the incredible feeling my skin had getting out of the shower when using one of those bars cannot be compared to any other soap. The mildness of a well-cured bar of soap cannot be beat. Because of that unexpected discovery, I've decided to allow my soaps to cure for a year. I usually wait 3 to 6 months, but I'm going for a full year now. Since I have soooooo much soap on hand, that shouldn't be too much of a problem.


 

I thought soap goes bad after a year!:silent:


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## shunt2011 (Mar 4, 2017)

I've got soap 6 years old and it's still perfect. Maybe the scent faded but some still smell good to my nose.


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## mx5inpenn (Mar 4, 2017)

SunRiseArts said:


> I thought soap goes bad after a year!:silent:



One of the soaps I'm sending you is 2 years old. I like to say they are like a good scotch, get better with age. 

I am sending one that is 8 weeks and one that is 5 months as well. I wanted you to see the difference a good cure makes. I rarely pull one of the shelf that's younger than 3 months for myself. 

On a side note, I didn't make it to the p.o. yesterday, but am going shortly, so they will be on their way.


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## IrishLass (Mar 4, 2017)

SunRiseArts said:


> I thought soap goes bad after a year!:silent:


 
You'll soon think differently, I have no doubt.  Some soaps might not last that long if their formula and/or their oils were bad to begin with, but if your oils and formula are good, they will hold up indefinitely. 

For what its worth, I still have soaps dating all the way back to 10 or 11 years ago (and everywhere in between), and they are still great. The scent is gone in most of them (although not all of them), but the soaps themselves are awesome. I like to pull one out every now and again to use up in the same way a wine connoisseur might pull a bottle of well-aged wine from out of the wine cellar to enjoy. lol


IrishLass


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## Steve85569 (Mar 4, 2017)

Soap and wine get better with age is properly stored.
You CAN use soap after saponification has completed ( no zap).
You CAN drink wine after fermentation has completed.

But they are both a whole lot better given a proper cure time. Even "hot process" wine gets better with aging as does hot processed soap.

As for soaps going bad IrishLass made some very good points. One of the other details in making soap that helps soap last longer is a lower SF as well. There are more that could be discussed but that would amount to a thread hijack....


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Mar 5, 2017)

Sunrise, you have done more m&p than cp if I recall - I think that it might well be that m&p doesn't last too long under certain conditions. But that is not the case for cp. I keep a bar from each batch that I have never made before. You end up with quite a treasure trove


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## RobertBarnett (Mar 5, 2017)

The best thing you can do is use a bar at 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 4 weeks, and so on. This will let you see the dramatic impact a good cure can have on your soap. It is a real learning experience and a bit fun.

Robert


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## SunRiseArts (Mar 5, 2017)

mx6inpenn said:


> One of the soaps I'm sending you is 2 years old. I like to say they are like a good scotch, get better with age.
> 
> I am sending one that is 8 weeks and one that is 5 months as well. I wanted you to see the difference a good cure makes. I rarely pull one of the shelf that's younger than 3 months for myself.
> 
> On a side note, I didn't make it to the p.o. yesterday, but am going shortly, so they will be on their way.


 
OMG You are so generous!  I can't wait!

Thank you all for so much insight.  I had no idea.  In my mind I thought it lasts only a year, and then it would go bad ...  Now I do not feel guilty about making more. 

My hubby and I are planning on moving back to the country this year, I made him promise to built me a separate studio house, so I can have space for all my arts and crafts ....   I know what will happen, there will be soap EVERYWHERE!

Another question..... for the challenge I made a 60 % olive oil 40% coconut.  Since it has such a high olive content, how long should I let it cure?


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## BattleGnome (Jun 10, 2017)

As long as possible ;p

60% OO is definite a case of passible at 4-6 weeks but sooooooooo much better with a longer cure. I once used a SoapQueen recipe for a baby Bastille that was 80-90% pomace and while it was useable soap at the reccomended 4weeks it had the trademark Castile slime and I put it away for a while. Picked up a random bar six or so months later and it was much better. 

After all that... I would say test it at 4 weeks, 8 weeks, 12....etc. It will give you a good idea of how a castille cures without needing the 6-12 months to be considered passable.


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## earlene (Jun 10, 2017)

SunRiseArts, I love that you are going to have your own studio house for your Art.  I have always wanted a separate studio for art; you know a separate building away from the main house.  Maybe combined with, or adjacent to a formal greenhouse.  I am truly envious!

I agree with BattleGnome.  The longer the better in my experience.  I am absolutely loving the soap I made for the challenge last June.  It's super bubbly and just so wonderful now.


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## CTAnton (Jun 11, 2017)

amazing how this is such a recurrent theme, especially when it comes to high OO soaps.
I look at soap like wine....do you want a Beaujolias or a Cabernet aged several years? Every soap that I've made and found the occasional stray bar of years later has amazed me. Yes, the fragrance has diminished but a good long cure is amply rewarded.I recently did a dual lye 100% OO batch. I tested a sliver of it 2 weeks later and while theres no abundance of bubbles there was no snottiness either. At the beginning of the year I made some Castile soaps  to give as gifts for Christmas...a tradition I learned on the forum and from what Ive read, not without its merits....


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## fuzz-juzz (Jun 11, 2017)

I cure for as long as possible. 
8 weeks minimum. 
You can use it at 4 weeks but as already mentioned, while safe to use, it will turn into mush quickly and it just doesn't have the right feel.
I'm currently using hars that are about year old and they are amazing, hard as a rock lol.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 11, 2017)

SunRiseArts said:


> I made him promise to built me a separate studio house, so I can have space for all my arts and crafts ....   I know what will happen, there will be soap EVERYWHERE!


Ooooo, I'm green with envy! :mrgreen:  Will the studio have a cot for guests? hunh?


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## SunRiseArts (Jun 13, 2017)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Ooooo, I'm green with envy! :mrgreen: Will the studio have a cot for guests? hunh?


 

Oh yeah ....  yesterday my hubby asked me if I also wanted a bed there, and if I would ever come back home if I get a craft studio   :mrgreen:


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## winusuren (Sep 22, 2021)

BattleGnome said:


> As long as possible ;p
> 
> 60% OO is definite a case of passible at 4-6 weeks but sooooooooo much better with a longer cure. I once used a SoapQueen recipe for a baby Bastille that was 80-90% pomace and while it was useable soap at the reccomended 4weeks it had the trademark Castile slime and I put it away for a while. Picked up a random bar six or so months later and it was much better.
> 
> After all that... I would say test it at 4 weeks, 8 weeks, 12....etc. It will give you a good idea of how a castille cures without needing the 6-12 months to be considered passable.


Hi,
Won't this soap develop DOS due to the addition of carrot puree and buttermilk after a long cure of more than 8 months?


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## ResolvableOwl (Sep 22, 2021)

Do you have reasons to assume that carrots or buttermilk foster rancidity?

Anyway, if you wonder about _maximum_ waiting/curing time/shelf life, this isn't the right thread anyway. Please start a new thread, rather than necropost.


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## winusuren (Sep 22, 2021)

No actually pureed carrots and buttermilk are natural ingredients. They'll be good in soaps after 45 days of cure and I've tried it too. But when we cure soaps for more than 8 months they might spoil the soap right?? I'm not sure about this. This is the doubt I have.


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## earlene (Sep 22, 2021)

I have not had carrot soaps turn rancid, even after 4 years after cure.  I still have some of my own 'Baby Buttermilk' (not this recipe, but that is what I named them & they had buttermilk) soaps that I made several years ago, and there is no rancidity there either.  

That is not to say that rancidity could not happen.  Of course it could, but the food itself would not necessarily be the cause.


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## TheGecko (Sep 22, 2021)

winusuren said:


> Won't this soap develop DOS due to the addition of carrot puree and buttermilk after a long cure of more than 8 months?



Depends.  I have two bars of Goat Milk Soap on my desk...one was made over two years ago and the other not quite a year ago; the first was made with evaporated goat milk and the other with fresh goat milk.  Nothing wrong with either bar, I keep them to remind myself how far I have come.  I also have a bar of Goat Milk Soap that I bought...hmmm, around 13 years ago.  I found it two years ago tucked away in the back of a drawer in the bathroom.  When I bought it, it had been tightly wrapped in tissue paper, but since soap continues to cure, it had lost a little weight.  Outside of that, there was nothing wrong with the soap and it's my traveling soap.  I used it in July and will be using it again later this month.

I can't tell you the science of it all, but it has to do with the PH that doesn't allow for the growth of mold and bacteria...which is not the same as DOS.  From my understanding of DOS, it is most commonly caused by using rancid oils which is it is important to know the shelf life of your oils.  Another cause of DOS can be found in using tap or well water which can contain heavy metals or naturally occurring minerals.  Unless you are making a high Coconut Oil soap, a high superfat can cause it.  Your Super Fat is made up of unsaponified oils...which can go bad (see shelf life).  Another cause of DOS is temperature and humidity; soap cures best in dry, well ventilated, and cool temperatures.  And yet another cause is placing your soap on bare-metal racks and trays.  Stainless steel is okay since it doesn't rust, but it's just best not to do it.  And lastly, if you have chunks of food in your soap yes the chunks will rot.


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## winusuren (Sep 23, 2021)

TheGecko said:


> Depends.  I have two bars of Goat Milk Soap on my desk...one was made over two years ago and the other not quite a year ago; the first was made with evaporated goat milk and the other with fresh goat milk.  Nothing wrong with either bar, I keep them to remind myself how far I have come.  I also have a bar of Goat Milk Soap that I bought...hmmm, around 13 years ago.  I found it two years ago tucked away in the back of a drawer in the bathroom.  When I bought it, it had been tightly wrapped in tissue paper, but since soap continues to cure, it had lost a little weight.  Outside of that, there was nothing wrong with the soap and it's my traveling soap.  I used it in July and will be using it again later this month.
> 
> I can't tell you the science of it all, but it has to do with the PH that doesn't allow for the growth of mold and bacteria...which is not the same as DOS.  From my understanding of DOS, it is most commonly caused by using rancid oils which is it is important to know the shelf life of your oils.  Another cause of DOS can be found in using tap or well water which can contain heavy metals or naturally occurring minerals.  Unless you are making a high Coconut Oil soap, a high superfat can cause it.  Your Super Fat is made up of unsaponified oils...which can go bad (see shelf life).  Another cause of DOS is temperature and humidity; soap cures best in dry, well ventilated, and cool temperatures.  And yet another cause is placing your soap on bare-metal racks and trays.  Stainless steel is okay since it doesn't rust, but it's just best not to do it.  And lastly, if you have chunks of food in your soap yes the chunks will rot.


Thank you so much for the detailed reply. Now I'll make some soaps for my kids


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## winusuren (Sep 23, 2021)

earlene said:


> I have not had carrot soaps turn rancid, even after 4 years after cure.  I still have some of my own 'Baby Buttermilk' (not this recipe, but that is what I named them & they had buttermilk) soaps that I made several years ago, and there is no rancidity there either.
> 
> That is not to say that rancidity could not happen.  Of course it could, but the food itself would not necessarily be the cause.


Thank you for clarifying my doubt


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