# Selling B&B Products Made From Bases?



## KateInBrightPlaces (Jun 25, 2013)

There's something I've been wondering for awhile, and I hope I don't offend anyone with this question.  Do people make bath and body products from purchased, pre-made bases, and then sell them as new products?

I've been making b&b stuff from bases that I bought from some of the good online suppliers for years, and either using the stuff myself or giving it to family or friends.  I've been gradually moving toward making stuff from scratch though, partly because I hope to someday make products to sell.

I don't think I ever would have thought to sell stuff I made from bases, and I'm still not planning on it, but I have noticed tons of comments on the product pages of online suppliers' websites that seem to indicate that it's actually fairly common.  Like on a lip balm base page, a comment that says, "I love this base and my customers can't get enough of it!"  Which sounds like the commenter is selling the lip balm base with whatever added ingredients as a new product, right?

Or melt and pour soap is another example.  Do people make soap from M&P bases and sell it?  

I really do not mean to say that it's wrong to do that.  I'm too new to the world of selling soap and b&b products to take any kind of stance on whether or not that's good practice.  I'm more just wondering what's common and what's generally accepted as far as selling stuff made from bases goes.

What's the communal thinking on this?  What do you think?  

Thanks.


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## Koshka (Jun 25, 2013)

Yes, people absolutely make products from pre-made bases. I, myself, is one of them. Personally, I think it's absolutely OK. My M&P soaps are made with pre-made base. Scrubs and such as well; I've outsourced my cosmetics production to elsewhere, so I'm selling an already made product, packaged to my standards, it's less headache for me and I'm not breaking any FDA rules. 
The main issue for me was to find right companies who use simple, natural ingredients. A lot of M&P bases are made with detergents, and lots of B&B bases are full of preservatives and parabens. I pay more for my bases, but I know that the quality is excellent and my buyers are satisfied. Customers come to me for natural products, they are willing to pay more for quality, and I think it's my responsibility to provide them with "the best".


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## FGOriold (Jun 25, 2013)

I think most people who use bases modify them with fragrance oil, essential oils, color or other additives prior to selling them - I believe that is the point of the bases and why suppliers to bath and body makers sell them.  I see nothing at all wrong with using bases as a starting point to create one's line of products for sale.  There are advantages and disadvantages to creating from bases and creating from scratch.

The only bases that I use are for melt and pour soaps as there are things that you can do with those bases that you cannot easily do with cold process soap.  Here is an example of my most recent experiment with melt and pour bases and if the colors do not bleed, I definitely plan on adding these to my product line.


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## KateInBrightPlaces (Jun 25, 2013)

Wow, those are gorgeous!  How do you do that?

Thanks for your responses.  I do know from experience that just because you're using a pre-made base, that does NOT mean your products are not your own creations.  There are practically endless ways to modify a base to make it its own unique product.  I guess I'm just paranoid about getting in trouble or having people get mad at me or dismiss my work if I'm using bases.  Do you, those of you who do sell products made from bases, feel you get any of that from other manufacturers?  Do people who don't understand what you do ever give you a hard time about it?

Thanks again for your input!  This is very interesting to me.


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## nebetmiw (Jun 25, 2013)

It is OK but a seller should never claim that they are all natural in the way that the have no detergents or preservatives.   Handmade is a loose term and melt and pour people use it for most of their soaps.


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## dagmar88 (Jun 25, 2013)

nebetmiw said:


> It is OK but a seller should never claim that they are all natural in the way that the have no detergents or preservatives.   Handmade is a loose term and melt and pour people use it for most of their soaps.



"Natural" hasn't been defined by the FDA; so you can put it on anything you please.


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## Kersten (Jun 25, 2013)

I think a lot of these answeres depend on who your customer base is and wether or not the seller is being transparent as to what they are selling. There are plenty of customers who wouldn't care either way if a product was fully developed or only partially developed by the seller. Others would very much care. I develop all of my products from the ground up, because I truly enjoy formulating, but I would never begrudge those who would rather not spend their time and money with the lengthy process of formulating and testing, and testing more, then reformulating, and testing more, and more etc.....The only time I have gotten a "huffy" is when I see sellers who are not being very honest in their advertising.


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## KateInBrightPlaces (Jun 25, 2013)

Kersten's point about transparency brings up a couple more questions I had.  

One is how sellers who use bases label their ingredients (does it mention the base in there, or just the ingredients of the base?).  

And the second is about the etiquette when selling products made from bases with regards to crediting the original source of the base.  For example, if I purchased my base from Brambleberry, should I mention BB in some way on my packaging?  

Thanks to everyone who's responding.  This is very helpful!


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## pamielynn (Jun 25, 2013)

I wouldn't think you'd have to go as far as to say where you purchased the bases from, but I don't appreciate people claiming "handmade" on bases. I think "handcrafted" would be a more appropriate term. That's just my two cents.


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## VanessaP (Jun 25, 2013)

You list all the ingredients on YOUR label that the supplier provided on THEIR label though you will need to make sure you leave out the adjectives such as (emulsifier), (chelating agent), etc. as those are not proper INCI terms - M&P soap is not considered a true soap so it must be labeled as cosmetic, if I'm remembering the rules correctly.

You don't have to list the supplier(s) on the labels.

I use bases for a few things like foaming bath whip for sugar scrubs and a lotion base (I only make the lotion for myself and friends), as well as body mist. Bases will cost more in the long run unless you start making your own base in bulk amounts, but I also have very little storage space, so its much better/easier for me to store 3 bottles of a finished product than 20 bottles for one product.


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## Koshka (Jun 25, 2013)

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but what does being natural has to do with being handmade? I can give you many examples of when bases and soaps are handmade and people still add all kinds of artificial products. And why can't I claim that my products are natural, if they are? (i.e. no lathering agents, no parabens, etc...) 
Also, preservatives are required in some products, especially if they are water based. And what's wrong with using natural preservatives? Benzyl alcohol, for example is a plant derived preservative, made with organic acids, it's formaldehyde, paraben and halogen free. I think nowadays people get scared and confused by words like "preservative", partially because they are not aware of their origin or chemical structure. There are plenty of natural and organic products which may cause irritation, allergic reaction and poison our bodies as well. 


nebetmiw said:


> It is OK but a seller should never claim that they are all natural in the way that the have no detergents or preservatives.   Handmade is a loose term and melt and pour people use it for most of their soaps.


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## dagmar88 (Jun 26, 2013)

Koshka said:


> Also, preservatives are required in some products, especially if they are water based. And what's wrong with using natural preservatives?


 
There is no "natural" broad spectrum preservative for hydrous formulations.
As said, natural is a meaningless term and you can use it as you please.



carebear said:


> what's more - defining "natural" is down right impossible.  petroleum is  natural (it's from the ground and made of deceased dinosaurs!),  everything is "derived from nature"  and everything (i mean EVERYTHING)  is made of chemicals.


 


Tabitha said:


> Natural does not equal good and synthetic does not  equal bad. Cat poop is 'all natural' but I certainly do not want it in  my soap.


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## FGOriold (Jun 26, 2013)

The term "Natural" on a product really has no meaning.  There is no legal definition for the word when it comes to labeling unlike using the word "organic" which has several legal requirements that must be met before the word can be used in labeling or describing a product.  Natural can be slapped on anything at this time so use it if you want but it is quite meaninglessness.  As a buyer, I am never swayed into purchasing products labeled as such (especially food products), ingredients lists are far more informative then marketing terms.


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## Koshka (Jun 26, 2013)

dagmar88 said:


> There is no "natural" broad spectrum preservative for hydrous formulations.
> As said, natural is a meaningless term and you can use it as you please.


What about citric acid, salt and sugar?


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## Koshka (Jun 26, 2013)

FGOriold said:


> The term "Natural" on a product really has no meaning.  There is no legal definition for the word when it comes to labeling unlike using the word "organic" which has several legal requirements that must be met before the word can be used in labeling or describing a product.  Natural can be slapped on anything at this time so use it if you want but it is quite meaninglessness.  As a buyer, I am never swayed into purchasing products labeled as such (especially food products), ingredients lists are far more informative then marketing terms.


As do I, but organic doesn't mean good for health either in many cases. For example, chicken broth can be 100 percent organic, but will have 950 mil of sodium per cup. How is that healthy? I also read labels, as you do, and you're right, nothing says it better like the list of the ingredients


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## dagmar88 (Jun 26, 2013)

Koshka said:


> What about citric acid, salt and sugar?



Nope.


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## FGOriold (Jun 26, 2013)

Koshka said:


> As do I, but organic doesn't mean good for health either in many cases. For example, chicken broth can be 100 percent organic, but will have 950 mil of sodium per cup. How is that healthy? I also read labels, as you do, and you're right, nothing says it better like the list of the ingredients



Totally agree that just because something is labeled organic does not mean better for you - just that there are legal requirements that must be met before you can use that term - not so for "Natural".


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## sakura1024 (Jul 2, 2013)

Koshka said:


> As do I, but organic doesn't mean good for health either in many cases. For example, chicken broth can be 100 percent organic, but will have 950 mil of sodium per cup. How is that healthy? I also read labels, as you do, and you're right, nothing says it better like the list of the ingredients



Also, according to the FDA, "organic" produce is allowed to have an ingredient of Round Up on and in it (and this ingredient has been proven to cause birth defects in up to 90% of test animals). So, to me, "organic" is as useless as natural. Like stated before, petroleum is "natural" but it's also super dangerous.


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## pamielynn (Jul 2, 2013)

sakura1024 said:


> Also, according to the FDA, "organic" produce is allowed to have an ingredient of Round Up on and in it (and this ingredient has been proven to cause birth defects in up to 90% of test animals). So, to me, "organic" is as useless as natural. Like stated before, petroleum is "natural" but it's also super dangerous.



See what a lot of lobbying money can buy you? Thank you, Monsanto.


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## sakura1024 (Jul 2, 2013)

pamielynn said:


> See what a lot of lobbying money can buy you? Thank you, Monsanto.



Amen! Monsanto is destroying everything!

Sorry for the tangent.


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## lisamaliga (Jul 3, 2013)

I used to sell soap made from melt and pour base. I always encourage people to list the ingredients on the soap [if selling in a market] and definitely on the website if also or only selling online.


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## Triquetra (Jul 3, 2013)

Correct me if Im wrong but isnt it a law that if you sell online you dont have to list ingredients on product but on the website somewhere?  I know thats how some companies get away with out the ingredients listed on their products (much to my surprise when I wanted to know exactly what was in that face scrub I bought from a well known company).


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## dagmar88 (Jul 3, 2013)

sakura1024 said:


> Also, according to the FDA, "organic" produce is allowed to have an ingredient of Round Up on and in it (and this ingredient has been proven to cause birth defects in up to 90% of test animals). So, to me, "organic" is as useless as natural. Like stated before, petroleum is "natural" but it's also super dangerous.



In contrast to the term natural, the term organic is very well defined and heavily regulated.

Even after multiple years of organic farming, you'll still find particles of round up; as it has been proven not to be bio degradable.


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## Lindy (Jul 4, 2013)

I haven't read all of the responses - but if you are in Canada you must register your product with Health Canada using the Cosmetic Notification Form even when using a base.


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## paillo (Aug 23, 2013)

pamielynn said:


> I wouldn't think you'd have to go as far as to say where you purchased the bases from, but I don't appreciate people claiming "handmade" on bases. I think "handcrafted" would be a more appropriate term. That's just my two cents.



I agree. The only base I use is for M&P soap, which I design and scent. I use 'Handcrafted' on the label, and list all of the ingredients in the base.


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## Robert (Aug 23, 2013)

KateInBrightPlaces said:


> There's something I've been wondering for awhile, and I hope I don't offend anyone with this question.  Do people make bath and body products from purchased, pre-made bases, and then sell them as new products?


Most, or at least a large part, of the industry is based on doing just that.  When you see in the USA an ingredients list including the word "and", you know they're doing that, because they bought a mixture of this-and-that.


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## Robert (Aug 23, 2013)

VanessaP said:


> You list all the ingredients on YOUR label that the supplier provided on THEIR label though you will need to make sure you leave out the adjectives such as (emulsifier), (chelating agent), etc. as those are not proper INCI terms - M&P soap is not considered a true soap so it must be labeled as cosmetic, if I'm remembering the rules correctly.


Melt & pour can be a "soap" as FDA regs define it.  Just depends on its actual ingredients.


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