# Fragrance oil



## LilyJo (Jun 4, 2020)

Sorry but that's BS. People develop skin conditions, anaphylaxis to all kinds of things inc soap fragranced and unfragranced. And anaphylaxis kills.

The EU sets safety guidelines for all kinds of things inc cosmetics and whilst restaurant may not be prevented from using those ingredients,  there are moves to regulate how those ingredients are labelled.

Its about customer safety not politics.


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## Todd Ziegler (Jun 4, 2020)

LilyJo said:


> Sorry but that's BS. People develop skin conditions, anaphylaxis to all kinds of things inc soap fragranced and unfragranced. And anaphylaxis kills.
> 
> The EU sets safety guidelines for all kinds of things inc cosmetics and whilst restaurant may not be prevented from using those ingredients,  there are moves to regulate how those ingredients are labelled.
> 
> Its about customer safety not politics.


I don't live in Europe but I find the EU guidelines for cosmetics interesting. I make other cosmetics besides soap, like finger nail polish, and there are quite a few colors that can be used in the EU that can't be used in the US. I tend to favor the EU guidelines but I really don't understand the restrictions that are put on selling soap in the EU. It just feels a little to restrictive to me. I understand regulating the ingredients but I don't understand why it has to be tested before you sell it. And just to be clear, I am asking out of curiosity, not from a political point.


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## LilyJo (Jun 4, 2020)

Its not so much the product has to be tested but the recipe has to be assessed and the recipe,  product details, photos of packaging etc have to be logged on the EU portal.  If anyone has a reaction to any part of the product, it can be fully traced back to the manufacturer and its components traced also.

The assessment will approve a product for sale effectively so that it complies with current legislation and its allergen composition does not exceed current levels. In essence it's designed to protect the customer in the same way as CLP labelling protects candle purchases.


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## Vickyn (Jun 4, 2020)

LilyJo said:


> Its not so much the product has to be tested but the recipe has to be assessed and the recipe,  product details, photos of packaging etc have to be logged on the EU portal.  If anyone has a reaction to any part of the product, it can be fully traced back to the manufacturer and its components traced also.
> 
> The assessment will approve a product for sale effectively so that it complies with current legislation and its allergen composition does not exceed current levels. In essence it's designed to protect the customer in the same way as CLP labelling protects candle purchases.


Ah interesting. Thanks for that. I work in garment manufacturing and we have a similar thing for fabric, so it makes sense. The cost of each test is astronomical.
Sorry to get a bit technical, especially since I just make for fun, but I find this stuff interesting. So do the regulations only apply to a physical product sold in a particular location like garments? Eg if you were based in Australia and sold soap online, then Australian regulations apply, even if your customer was in the UK. However if you're based in Australia but wholesale your soap to a physical location in Europe, then the soap, packaging, labelling etc must apply to EU rules, because the legislation isn't around where the company is based or where it's made, but where the physical item is purchased or distributed from.


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## LilyJo (Jun 4, 2020)

Vickyn said:


> Ah interesting. Thanks for that. I work in garment manufacturing and we have a similar thing for fabric, so it makes sense. The cost of each test is astronomical.
> Sorry to get a bit technical, especially since I just make for fun, but I find this stuff interesting. So do the regulations only apply to a physical product sold in a particular location like garments? Eg if you were based in Australia and sold soap online, then Australian regulations apply, even if your customer was in the UK. However if you're based in Australia but wholesale your soap to a physical location in Europe, then the soap, packaging, labelling etc must apply to EU rules, because the legislation isn't around where the company is based or where it's made, but where the physical item is purchased or distributed from.


Yes basically, the rules are where the product is offered for sale.  So if you were based in Australia but sold in the uk, the products must comply with uk or EU law.

In theory small oversees makers who sell into the EU should comply with their rules but thats so much harder to process given online sales. But if you are actively targeting a UK market and offering products specifically there, it should be assessed.

Phew cant believe I am defending EU regs!!


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## Vickyn (Jun 4, 2020)

LilyJo said:


> Yes basically, the rules are where the product is offered for sale.  So if you were based in Australia but sold in the uk, the products must comply with uk or EU law.
> 
> In theory small oversees makers who sell into the EU should comply with their rules but thats so much harder to process given online sales. But if you are actively targeting a UK market and offering products specifically there, it should be assessed.
> 
> Phew cant believe I am defending EU regs!!


Haha. No judgement from me.... just curious. 
Thanks @LilyJo  I appreciate you taking the time to explain it. If you're sick of the regs you can always move to Hong Kong..... no regulations here..... It's also why I make my own cosmetics and toiletries, otherwise my skin would look like this


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## LilyJo (Jun 4, 2020)

Vickyn said:


> Haha. No judgement from me.... just curious.
> Thanks @LilyJo  I appreciate you taking the time to explain it. If you're sick of the regs you can always move to Hong Kong..... no regulations here..... It's also why I make my own cosmetics and toiletries, otherwise my skin would look like this


Now Hong Kong sparks a whole set of questions from me about politics but I wouldn't dream of putting you on the spot knowing how tricky it is.

Stay safe over there


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## Vickyn (Jun 4, 2020)

LilyJo said:


> Now Hong Kong sparks a whole set of questions from me about politics but I wouldn't dream of putting you on the spot knowing how tricky it is.
> 
> Stay safe over there


Oh well, let's just say the British media (I'm from the UK originally) are reporting it spectacularly badly. There is a lot of fake news and bias. If you're interested in the politics, I have no problem with you DMing me if you want to know anything. Happy to chat about it. But I appreciate the love. Thanks


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## Zoeybops (Oct 22, 2020)

Hi there. I need help. I have been sitting for hours trying to figure out how to calculate fragrance and essential oil. How do I know what the max % is for fragrance and essential oil and how do I calculate it to get the right amount in grams? Please help I’m so confused and really bad at maths lol

thank you


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## amd (Oct 22, 2020)

The supplier should tell you the usage rates for FO (fragrance), as it varies depending on the application. For essential oils, there is a usage rate that you can find by googling.

How to calculate can be one of two ways - pick one and always do it that way. You can do it as the percentage of the whole batch or just the oils. If your batch size is 1000g, and your oil amount is 500g, and your usage rate is 5%... [numbers completely made up for easy maths, you would want to do real math with real numbers] Remember that when converting % to a number in formulas to move the decimal place 2 places to the left. so 5% is .05.
Entire batch: amount of batch x decimal usage rate = how much FO to use (1000 x .05 = 50g)
Oil amount: amount of oils x decimal usage rate = how much FO to use (500 x .05 = 25g)

If I do the entire batch I never calculate at max usage rate, I'll calculate at around half. So if the usage rate is 5% max, then I'll use it at 3% of my total. Also note that some FO's may have high usage rates for soaps - I have seen some as high as 37%. You do not want to use them at that rate. Typically 5-10% is normal. More than that would cause problems with your soap. With the FO's with high usage rates, you'll likely get a good scented soap sticking with 5%.


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## LilyJo (Oct 22, 2020)

You can only use a max of 3% if you are selling (personal use is different) or the max recommended amount as listed on IFRA, whichever is lower.

Essential oils are different, each oil can gave its own max amount and some are less than 1%.


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## KiwiMoose (Oct 22, 2020)

Zoeybops said:


> Hi there. I need help. I have been sitting for hours trying to figure out how to calculate fragrance and essential oil. How do I know what the max % is for fragrance and essential oil and how do I calculate it to get the right amount in grams? Please help I’m so confused and really bad at maths lol
> 
> thank you


If you're using a soap calculator ( which you really should) you can enter the desired amount in there (say 3% for FOs) and it will work it out for you according to the amount of oils you are using.  If you're making a 1kg batch it's easy - 30g.  If you're making half that - 500g of oils, it would be 15g of FO.  Please remmebr that litres and kilos are not the same with oil - you do need to weigh it.


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## Vickyn (Oct 22, 2020)

This is quite a good link for recipes and checking safety. You have to be careful with some EOs as they can irritate the skin.
Enter Your Own Blend » Essential Oil Calculator


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## Zoeybops (Oct 23, 2020)

Thank you for all of your messages. I do use soapcalc and I haven’t been going nowhere near the max rate I think I’m probably not adding enough but I can still smell the essential oil and fragrances I’ve used. Thanks


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## SeaSuds (Oct 23, 2020)

@Zoeybops just to add to what Lilyjo said, keep checking your IFRA docs as some usage rates have changed or are about to change


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## Zoeybops (Oct 23, 2020)

Ok I use pretty much the same supplier for my fragrances and essential oils They always have the IFRA docs available I just haven’t been able to understand how I convert the max usage percentage to how much I actually use in soap. But these have helped thank you



amd said:


> The supplier should tell you the usage rates for FO (fragrance), as it varies depending on the application. For essential oils, there is a usage rate that you can find by googling.
> 
> How to calculate can be one of two ways - pick one and always do it that way. You can do it as the percentage of the whole batch or just the oils. If your batch size is 1000g, and your oil amount is 500g, and your usage rate is 5%... [numbers completely made up for easy maths, you would want to do real math with real numbers] Remember that when converting % to a number in formulas to move the decimal place 2 places to the left. so 5% is .05.
> Entire batch: amount of batch x decimal usage rate = how much FO to use (1000 x .05 = 50g)
> ...


Sorry im
Just reading over these again I want to properly understand I must sound like an idiot  so this fragrance I’ve looked up I e attached a photo of the IFRA and I make a 900g batch of soap how do I work that out? Thanks


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## Saponificarian (Oct 23, 2020)

Zoeybops said:


> Sorry im
> Just reading over these again I want to properly understand I must sound like an idiot  so this fragrance I’ve looked up I e attached a photo of the IFRA and I make a 900g batch of soap how do I work that out? Thanks



83.3% is the max allowed. Because you are in Scotland, which is part of the EU, you will have to stay at 3% even though the max allowed is 83.3%. You could start to have issues if you use over 10% FO in a batch of soap, more is not usually better in this case. 

3% of your 900g batch is 27g.


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## AliOop (Oct 23, 2020)

I agree with @Saponificarian. Of course, if this is for personal use only, you can go a bit higher. Most US soap makers use 5-6% if they want a strong scent. Much more than that can affect how your batter behaves, and how the soap cures.

Whatever batch size you make, you will enter the desired fragrance percentage in the soap calculator. The default is set to 3%, but just like the lye setting, you can change that to whatever percentage you have decided to use. Once you have put in the oils, lye concentration, and fragrance percentage, the calculator will tell you how many grams of fragrance  that works out to be for the specific batch size you are making.


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## KiwiMoose (Oct 23, 2020)

Zoeybops said:


> Sorry im
> Just reading over these again I want to properly understand I must sound like an idiot  so this fragrance I’ve looked up I e attached a photo of the IFRA and I make a 900g batch of soap how do I work that out? Thanks


In your soap calculator where it says fragrance, put in your desired percentage and it will work it out for you.


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## Zany_in_CO (Oct 23, 2020)

Zoeybops said:


> I have been sitting for hours trying to figure out how to calculate fragrance and essential oil. How do I know what the max % is for fragrance and essential oil and how do I calculate it to get the right amount in grams?


Hi Zoeybops! I'm math challenged too and a bit of a lazy daisy, so I use a fragrance calculator. Majestic Mountain Sage, Wholesale Supplies Plus and Bramble Berry have them. There may be other suppliers as well. Not sure. Here's the one from MMS:

*https://www.the-sage.com/fragcalc/*

It's pretty simple to use. Just choose the product you're making from the drop down menu. Type in the weight of oils. Choose a fragrance from the list of EOs or FOs. Hit "Calculate" and you're good to go. Most of the fragrance oils calculate at the same amounts, with a few exceptions. The results vary for the Essential Oils, however, so it helps to know a little about essential oils before using them.

HTH (Hope This Helps! )


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## earlene (Oct 29, 2020)

SeaSuds said:


> @Zoeybops just to add to what Lilyjo said, keep checking your IFRA docs as some usage rates have changed or are about to change




*SeaSuds*, I agree that checking the IFRA rates is important.  However I found that it is harder to do lately.  Do you have a current link to a webpage where I can look up a specific FO or EO on IFRA's website without having to search the site, which seems to have become extremely user-unfriendly to me.  I'd really appreciate it.

I have noticed that there have been some Category changes for some products (See Table 14 in _this document_) and although soap is unchanged, some other products some of our members make are now in different categories) and they have added sub-categories as well.  But I still cannot find where to go to read safe usage for any particular essential oil to find the components within an essential oil to watch out for, which I used to be able to do on their site.  It's become so difficult for me to find anything I want to find on that site, I am just not feeling safe believing anything anyone else says about what's safe per IFRA standards anymore because, they could be talking about the old standards and not the new ones.


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## SeaSuds (Oct 30, 2020)

@earlene here in the UK the supplier provides the up to date information and the soapmaker has to keep records for each essential oil. We also have to calculate the allergens for each oil and state these on the label (if selling)


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## earlene (Oct 31, 2020)

I appreciate that, *SoapSuds*.  Some of the suppliers here in the US have that information available as well, but I sure wish the IFRA site was searchable for that information the way it used to be.


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