# SMF December Challenge- high and low water batch



## newbie (Nov 30, 2015)

Hello all! This month's challenge is based on Auntie Clara's blog posts about the use of low water or water discounts in soap design. Her blog posts are wonderful and although lengthy, they are thorough and worth a read. 

http://auntieclaras.com/2014/08/intentional-crop-circles-water-discount-as-a-design-tool/

http://auntieclaras.com/2015/09/

This challenge is about using batter made with both high water (2.4:1  water:lye ratio) AND with low water (1.4:1  water:lye ratio) using the difference between them in gelling to get a different and often extremely beautiful/interesting effect in soap. I recommend that you make two separate batches of oils with their accompanying lye. I have tried many times to mix with low water, separate some off and then add the balance of the water needed to get to the 2.4 ratio to what is left. It seems logical but I haven't had it work well yet because of the difference in trace time between the two. It would work to weigh out all your oil and make a 1:1 lye concentrate for the batch and then split each into the proportions you want. If math is not your strong suit, I would just make up two separate batches each with their own lye at the two different concentrations. As always, I recommend making small batches- 1-2 pounds or 500-1000gm so you won't have loads of soap if you choose to try a couple times. 

Auntie Clara explains it better than I will, but low water batter gels at a higher temperature and possibly for a shorter time that high water batter. When you use the two in the same batch, there will be cooler non-gelling batter butting up against hotter gelling batter which can give a cool halo effect and can also give some fascinating differences in colors; sometimes the colors look to be outlining a section of soap and you will get far more variation in the colors you choose. You can use two colors but have high and low water portions of them and look like you used at least 6 different colors. It's really cool.

I strongly suggest you make your low water portion first. Soap very slightly warm to the touch, don't stick blend much and use either NO FRAGRANCE or use a COMPLETELY NON-ACCELERATING FRAGRANCE. This is absolutely key to using low water. Any acceleration is amplified mightily in low water but if you use the right FO/EO, you will find you have a ridiculous amount of time to work with your soap. It is a myth that low water means fast trace and once you see it, you will see what a fantastic tool it is to have in your arsenal. 

When ready, make your high water portion and if you are uncertain about your fragrance, just use it in this portion, to be safe. 

Design and colorants are completely up to you. Slab, loaf, individual pours- whatever you want. However, one rule is that you cannot make a copy of one of Auntie Clara's high/low water soaps, so no crop circles, no ultramarine blue faux funnel pours and no exact copies of her ghost swirl. Can you make a ghost swirl? Absolutely! But you must use a different pattern that she did. The world is your oyster for design on this one, but you must have 1/4 or more of your batter be of a different water concentration that the rest. This means you can use 1/4 high water and 3/4 low water, or 1/4 low water and 3/4 high water or anything in between but no using 1/5 or 1/10 of your batter for the contrasting water amount, for example. *You must gel to get the effect, so gelling is absolutely required. *

I will be on vacation for a bit but I will try to check in for questions. I hope any of the other challenge mods will help out with questions as well. LionPrincess is extremely well-versed in the use of low water and is a great resource as she soaps with low water most of the time. I hope she won't mind if I ask her to share her experiences when you have questions!

Entry will open on the 17th and close on the 24th. Voting will start on the 26th. I mean no disrespect to those who don't celebrate Christmas. We do so I'm taking that day off from making the survey. 

Sally forth and soap!

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhkbIOXN1KM[/ame]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGnjTg-LW_w[/ame]

Below are pics of the soap I made in the video and one I made with just ultramarine blue and white but with the same pour. In the blue one, my batters stayed at the same trace so same pour, different effect. 

ENTRIES will require just a picture of your finished soap. Any info on fragrance, colorants and techniques is always appreciated.


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## newbie (Dec 1, 2015)

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1.


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## lenarenee (Dec 1, 2015)

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1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!


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## newbie (Dec 1, 2015)

Make you sure you tell me if I have been confusing or the video does not make it clear what this is about!! Please please!


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## mazimazi (Dec 1, 2015)

The same basic rules apply? As in minimum of 50 posts?


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## Saponista (Dec 1, 2015)

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1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!


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## TheDragonGirl (Dec 1, 2015)

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1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow


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## TheDragonGirl (Dec 1, 2015)

huh, I thought December's challenge was going to need a column mold though, did that get changed?


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## newbie (Dec 1, 2015)

I had been thinking about that but I posted on that other thread that my idea was not working out so that would not be this month's challenge. You can still use a column for this technique but it's not required. 

Also, Please don't post your entries in this thread. Keep them a surprise for everyone when entries are posted. All you other attempts are things we'd all love to see though!

Thanks for the reminder Mazi. My post was so long I forgot about the disclaimer so here it is:


SMF Challenge General Rules
· To enter you must have a minimum of 50 posts and been a member for a month (sorry but no exceptions on this)
· Please add your name to the sign up list if you wish to participate (however, you don’t have to enter a soap at the end if you don’t feel happy with what you have produced)
· The challenge thread should be used to upload pictures of any of your challenge attempts where you can ask for advice and discuss the technique with other members.
· Constructive criticism is welcomed, but please try to keep your comments polite.
· Competition entries must be uploaded to the separate entry thread before the closing date. The thread will open on 12/17/15 (Please follow the challenge specific rules as to what you need to enter)
· After the closing date 12/24/15 the winning entry will be chosen using survey monkey and the winner announced at the end of the month, 12/30/15. There is no prize attached to this challenge.
· If you fail to make the challenge deadline, you are still welcome to upload your soap onto the thread, but your entry will not be eligible for voting. We still love to see anything you have produced.
· Even though there is no prize, this is still a competition. If your entry is deemed not to fulfill the general rules or the rules specific to the challenge in any way, then you will be given the opportunity to amend your entry. If this is not possible then your entry will not be included in the voting.
· Newbie, Saponista, Lionproncess00, Sonya-m and GalaxyMLP reserve the right to have the final say on whether a soap is eligible for voting.*


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## Misschief (Dec 1, 2015)

I can't commit to the challenge at this time... we're travelling to the coast this week.... but I am really looking forward to seeing everyone's entries and attempts. I've been wanting to try Auntie Clara's technique since I first saw it. While I still can't wrap my head around some of what she wrote, I agree with Newbie - it's well worth reading...more than once.


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## dixiedragon (Dec 1, 2015)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow 
4. Dixiedragon


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## songwind (Dec 1, 2015)

Sign up (Please copy and paste and put your name in with the next number)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.


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## songwind (Dec 1, 2015)

Does anyone know if this technique works with ITP swirl at all?


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## Obsidian (Dec 1, 2015)

Sign up (Please copy and paste and put your name in with the next number)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap


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## dixiedragon (Dec 1, 2015)

The rules say:


> you must have 1/4 or more of your batter be of a different water concentration that the rest. This means you can use 1/4 high water and 3/4 low water, or 1/4 low water and 3/4 high water or anything in between but no using 1/5 or 1/10 of your batter for the contrasting water amount, for example.


 
Is there a reason not to do 1/2 low water and 1/2 high water? Off of the top of my head, that would be my choice.


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## Sonya-m (Dec 1, 2015)

Sign up (Please copy and paste and put your name in with the next number)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap
7. Sonya-m - ooh I love a technical challenge!!


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## BlackDog (Dec 1, 2015)

Sign up (Please copy and paste and put your name in with the next number)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap
7. Sonya-m - ooh I love a technical challenge!! 
8. BlackDog - this challenge is totally out of my league!


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## Sonya-m (Dec 1, 2015)

Newbie I love how your soap came out but was chuckling away listening to your comments about how the vertical cut looked!!!


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## dibbles (Dec 1, 2015)

Sign up (Please copy and paste and put your name in with the next number)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap
7. Sonya-m - ooh I love a technical challenge!! 
8. BlackDog - this challenge is totally out of my league!
9. dibbles - I see flops in my future!


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## dibbles (Dec 1, 2015)

I think I better try this sooner than later, and am just wondering if you want photos other than just the finished soaps. Sorry if it's in the post somewhere, but I didn't see it if it is.

Newbie, your soaps turned out so beautifully. I especially love the blue sky!


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## dibbles (Dec 1, 2015)

songwind said:


> Does anyone know if this technique works with ITP swirl at all?



I've never tried this technique, but that is kind of where my mind is going too.


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## lionprincess00 (Dec 1, 2015)

I'll be around and am more than happy to help with low water experiences! Just my opinion, but if doing an itp I'd be sure, if your higher water is not the base, to use enough of the high water to be sure it pops and isn't too muddied where the effect is lost.


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## newbie (Dec 1, 2015)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap
7. Sonya-m - ooh I love a technical challenge!! 
8. BlackDog - this challenge is totally out of my league!
9. dibbles - I see flops in my future!
10. Dixiedragon

Yes, you can do almost any proportion you want, including 1/2 and 1/2. The minimum portion of either high or low water is 1/4 of the total batch. 

I think an ITP would work as long as the swirls aren't super fine. Super fine amounts of soap might not have enough bulk to get the effect.

I'm telling you, when I cut the ends off my soap, my jaw dropped. It was so awful!!! Thank the gods for hortizontal cuts.


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## Steve85569 (Dec 1, 2015)

I'm wondering how it would look in orange.
Hmmm...

I REALLY don't need more soap. Let me wrap some and see if I can find rack space.:think:


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## doriettefarm (Dec 1, 2015)

newbie - I think your last post had dixiedragon listed twice (#4 & #10) so I claimed the #10 spot.  Also wanted to clarify your statement about design and colors being completely our choice.  I'm reading this to mean there is no requirement to show the same colorants in both high & low water, correct?

Sign up (Please copy and paste and put your name in with the next number)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap
7. Sonya-m - ooh I love a technical challenge!! 
8. BlackDog - this challenge is totally out of my league!
9. dibbles - I see flops in my future!
10. doriettefarm - I'm game but frantically searching for FOs that behave in low water!


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## Judiraz (Dec 1, 2015)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap
7. Sonya-m - ooh I love a technical challenge!! 
8. BlackDog - this challenge is totally out of my league!
9. dibbles - I see flops in my future!
10. doriettefarm - I'm game but frantically searching for FOs that behave in low water!
11. Judiraz- I've been wanting to do this with color...lots of ideas.


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## CaraBou (Dec 1, 2015)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap
7. Sonya-m - ooh I love a technical challenge!! 
8. BlackDog - this challenge is totally out of my league!
9. dibbles - I see flops in my future!
10. doriettefarm - I'm game but frantically searching for FOs that behave in low water!
11. Judiraz- I've been wanting to do this with color...lots of ideas.
12. CaraBou - You know I'll do it anyway; might as well commit myself now so I can't back out from showing


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## newbie (Dec 1, 2015)

Thank you, Lena. I saw she dropped off but didn't see she was added back in. 

This challenge sounds more complicated than it is! I think it may be because of all the numbers thrown around because of the two lye:water ratios but you are just soaping with 2 batters that have different amounts of water in them. YOu can do it!!

You are correct. You do not need to use the same color in both high and low water. It is fun to see the difference between them in both types of batter but there is no requirement to do so. 

Doriette, whose FO's do you have the most of? We may be able to say for sure if one or some of them behave well in low water.

Some that come to mind are:

BB's Champagne, Kumquat, Patchoulis, Amber, Orange Peel plus Amber, White TEa and Ginger, I think Blackberry Sage

Oregon Trails Mysore Sandalwood

Candle Science's Fruit Slices

WSP's Love Spell (most Love SPell's are slow to trace so you may be lucky with most suppliers), black raspberry vanilla

I think FB's Sexy Beast works too. There had been reviews up about use in low water but now I can't find them!

I will have to tap LP's list of FO's that work well in low water. Help, LP!


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## MrsSpaceship (Dec 1, 2015)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap
7. Sonya-m - ooh I love a technical challenge!! 
8. BlackDog - this challenge is totally out of my league!
9. dibbles - I see flops in my future!
10. doriettefarm - I'm game but frantically searching for FOs that behave in low water!
11. Judiraz- I've been wanting to do this with color...lots of ideas.
12. CaraBou - You know I'll do it anyway; might as well commit myself now so I can't back out from showing
13. Mrs Spaceship - is terrified.


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## MrsSpaceship (Dec 1, 2015)

Oooo, the 13th spot, good thing I'm not superstitious.  :think:
So is there a minimum number of colors?  I only have 1 lb loaf molds and I worry that the measurements will tend to get too fiddly if I try too many colors.  Can I just keep it to one color (the discount would give me 2)?


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## lionprincess00 (Dec 1, 2015)

I'm here. I need a moment to get together a list....and it is -
Neroli Shea blossom bb
Mysore sandalwood ot 
Probably but not certain lavender cedar bb 
Fresh snow bb
Lavender forest bb
Black vetyver coffee daystar 
Lychee red tea bb
Green Irish tweed ot
Milk sugar kisses daystar 
Blend of lavender 40/42, eucalyptus,patchouli and cedar eo's
Blend of rosemary, lavender, litsea, patchouli and cedarwood eo's
Blend of Ginger patchouli bb, Orange peel bb, and patchouli eo, leading me to believe they're all probably safe alone in low water
Blend of rosemary,cedarwood, and frankincense eo's
Blend of rosemary eo, cedarwood eo, mysore sandalwood fo OT, and juniper berry eo
Blend of juniper berry fo, vetyver fo bb, cedarwood eo 
Patchouli passion fb 
Lavender sage fb 
Cedarwood/juniper berry fo by fb 
Sultana, fb, I *think* may be a tad accelerated fo because I don't fully remember. Think started slow and then went fast at the sweet point.
BlackBerry sage bb 
Toffee sugar crunch daystar 
Blend cedarwood lavender 42/40 and 10xorange eo's 
Blend cedarwood, lavender 42/40, 10xorange and litsea, patchouli eo's 
Blend pomegranate black currant bb and velvet peppercorn mad oils leading me to believe they're both work fairly well alone 
Almond creme rustic escentuals 
Sweetgrass bb
Blend mysore sandalwood ot, velvet peppercorn MO, cedarwood eo and sweetgrass bb 
Blend pomegranate black currant bb and earl grey MO, leading me to believe they're both work alone well 
Silver mountain water ot
I hope this gives some help!!!!


I did this very fast .If someone notices a discrepancy in, like, hey LP! Lavender sage isn't made  by so-and-so....if there's a mess up on vendors to fo's, please let me know asap! I'll recheck and check my empty bottles tomorrow to ensure I didn't make mistakes. Thanks you all!


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## doriettefarm (Dec 1, 2015)

I've actually got a sample bottle that's a 50/50 mix of BB's champange & crisp anjou pear.  Pretty sure LP gifted it to me in the Alternative Liquid swap so I wonder if that would work?  I've also got tons of FB FOs and others from BB, AHRE, Soapalooza if you have any suggestions from those suppliers.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 1, 2015)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap
7. Sonya-m - ooh I love a technical challenge!!
8. BlackDog - this challenge is totally out of my league!
9. dibbles - I see flops in my future!
10. doriettefarm - I'm game but frantically searching for FOs that behave in low water!
11. Judiraz- I've been wanting to do this with color...lots of ideas.
12. CaraBou - You know I'll do it anyway; might as well commit myself now so I can't back out from showing
13. Mrs Spaceship - is terrified. 
14. DeeAnna. I don't have time for this -- it's my super crazy incredibly busy season at work -- but I'm gonna make time.


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## newbie (Dec 1, 2015)

There are probably too few rules on this one!

No required number of colors. No rules about colors at all except within the one rule that you cannot duplicate one of Auntie Clara's soaps made with this method. You can use no colors at all if you wish.

If you want to show a bunch of pics with your entry, we'd love to see them but you are only required to post a picture of your finished soap/soaps.

Thanks LP!

Also, you can use infused oils to get your colors, use red palm oil to get your colors, naturals, micas, unltramarines, oxides, clays.... Use your imagination! I have not used clays or infused oils but no reason it shouldn't work, that I'm aware of. 

PS. No probs with cross-posting! I'm glad people will say something so the question-asker gets their answer ASAP.


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## BlackDog (Dec 1, 2015)

MrsSpaceship said:


> Oooo, the 13th spot, good thing I'm not superstitious.  :think:
> So is there a minimum number of colors?  I only have 1 lb loaf molds and I worry that the measurements will tend to get too fiddly if I try too many colors.  Can I just keep it to one color (the discount would give me 2)?



I'm sure newbie will clarify, but the way I read it, I don't think you have to use any colors at all, or can use any number of colors.  ---oops newbie I cross-posted you!  

LP - thanks for the list!  I just ordered a bottle of BB Blackberry Sage so I might have to give it a whirl for this challenge!  *claps hands and squeals*


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## doriettefarm (Dec 1, 2015)

Bummer, I don't have any of the FOs LP listed . . . maybe I'll have to do an EO blend for this one.  Need to get more adventurous with the colors this time but simple could be better, I'm so torn!


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## lionprincess00 (Dec 1, 2015)

doriettefarm said:


> I've actually got a sample bottle that's a 50/50 mix of BB's champange & crisp anjou pear.  Pretty sure LP gifted it to me in the Alternative Liquid swap so I wonder if that would work?  I've also got tons of FB FOs and others from BB, AHRE, Soapalooza if you have any suggestions from those suppliers.



I'd bet on it working. It wasn't me that gifted. I'm thinking it was snappyllama who scented the body butter in the same fo, if I'm recalling correctly.


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## lionprincess00 (Dec 1, 2015)

If anyone is a bettin' man or woman, ask and I'll look up the fo and tell you if I'd risk it in low water. Worst case you get an oppsie batch and have to try again. I'll do what I can to help and guide!


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## commoncenz (Dec 1, 2015)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap
7. Sonya-m - ooh I love a technical challenge!!
8. BlackDog - this challenge is totally out of my league!
9. dibbles - I see flops in my future!
10. doriettefarm - I'm game but frantically searching for FOs that behave in low water!
11. Judiraz- I've been wanting to do this with color...lots of ideas.
12. CaraBou - You know I'll do it anyway; might as well commit myself now so I can't back out from showing
13. Mrs Spaceship - is terrified. 
14. DeeAnna. I don't have time for this -- it's my super crazy incredibly busy season at work -- but I'm gonna make time.
15. Commoncenz - Why, oh WHY do I do this to myself?


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## doriettefarm (Dec 1, 2015)

lionprincess00 said:


> I'd bet on it working. It wasn't me that gifted. I'm thinking it was snappyllama who scented the body butter in the same fo, if I'm recalling correctly.



Actually I think it was jules that did the body butter with that FO combo, thanks for jogging my memory!


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## snappyllama (Dec 2, 2015)

lionprincess00 said:


> I'd bet on it working. It wasn't me that gifted. I'm thinking it was snappyllama who scented the body butter in the same fo, if I'm recalling correctly.



Sorry it wasn't me; I wasn't in that swap. I do use that combination in scrubs and lotions though. It's really nice! I forget who recommended it to me on here.


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## dibbles (Dec 2, 2015)

doriettefarm said:


> I've actually got a sample bottle that's a 50/50 mix of BB's champange & crisp anjou pear.  Pretty sure LP gifted it to me in the Alternative Liquid swap so I wonder if that would work?  I've also got tons of FB FOs and others from BB, AHRE, Soapalooza if you have any suggestions from those suppliers.



I've soaped a blend of BB's champagne and crisp anjou pear. Not sure that it was 50/50, I think it was a little heavier on the champagne, and had no problems at all. I used it for a rainbow zebra pour and had plenty of time.


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## snappyllama (Dec 2, 2015)

I wish I could do this challenge, but things are about to get incredibly insane at my house... I'm totally going to try this technique when I get back to soaping in the new year (all my time is going to be spent restocking a few requested soaps that won't lend themselves to the technique. Pine Tar and Shaving Soaps...

At least I can contribute by sharing some well behaved FOs aside from the ones mentioned...

WSP Black Cherry
BB Moroccan Mint
BB Ginger Patchouli
BB Ginger Ale
MO Saucy Santa (discolors really dark)
MO Snow Witch
WSP Vanilla Oak (discolors really dark)
NG Hippy christmas
WSP Very Sexy for Men
WSP Raspberry Lemonade
NSS Nag Champa (old formula - watch out for ashing)


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## KristaY (Dec 2, 2015)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap
7. Sonya-m - ooh I love a technical challenge!!
8. BlackDog - this challenge is totally out of my league!
9. dibbles - I see flops in my future!
10. doriettefarm - I'm game but frantically searching for FOs that behave in low water!
11. Judiraz- I've been wanting to do this with color...lots of ideas.
12. CaraBou - You know I'll do it anyway; might as well commit myself now so I can't back out from showing
13. Mrs Spaceship - is terrified. 
14. DeeAnna. I don't have time for this -- it's my super crazy incredibly busy season at work -- but I'm gonna make time.
15. Commoncenz - Why, oh WHY do I do this to myself?
16. KristaY - I hope I have time in the Christmas craziness!


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## mazimazi (Dec 2, 2015)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap
7. Sonya-m - ooh I love a technical challenge!!
8. BlackDog - this challenge is totally out of my league!
9. dibbles - I see flops in my future!
10. doriettefarm - I'm game but frantically searching for FOs that behave in low water!
11. Judiraz- I've been wanting to do this with color...lots of ideas.
12. CaraBou - You know I'll do it anyway; might as well commit myself now so I can't back out from showing
13. Mrs Spaceship - is terrified. 
14. DeeAnna. I don't have time for this -- it's my super crazy incredibly busy season at work -- but I'm gonna make time.
15. Commoncenz - Why, oh WHY do I do this to myself?
16. KristaY - I hope I have time in the Christmas craziness!
17. mazimazi - my first SMF challenge, yaaay!


----------



## Saponista (Dec 2, 2015)

Welcome mazimazi  I wish UK suppliers sold the same fragrances. I have to test everything and it drives me mad.


----------



## Rowan (Dec 2, 2015)

mazimazi said:


> 1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
> 2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
> 3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
> 4. Dixiedragon
> ...


----------



## Rowan (Dec 2, 2015)

I second that about UK suppliers and fragrances, it drives me crazy too!


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## Saponista (Dec 2, 2015)

I asked lilli over on the soap scent review board to add some of the suppliers I use which she has done and I have started to add reviews. I will update with how they work at 40% lye conc as I try them out. Have u joined there? If we can get more uk contributors then it could be really useful for us.


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## lionprincess00 (Dec 2, 2015)

doriettefarm said:


> Actually I think it was jules that did the body butter with that FO combo, thanks for jogging my memory!



That's right! At least I kinda helped hehe.


----------



## DeeAnna (Dec 2, 2015)

One well behaved, non discoloring FO I have used several times is Sweetgrass from Nature's Garden (NG). I usually soap at 30% to 33% lye concentration, so I can't say what it will do at 40% or so, but I'd be comfortable trying it.

For those who think in lye concentration rather than ratios -- 
A 2.4:1 water:lye ratio is the same as 29.4% lye concentration. 
And a 1.4:1 water:lye ratio is the same as 41.7% lye concentration.


----------



## dixiedragon (Dec 2, 2015)

Steve85569 said:


> I'm wondering how it would look in orange.
> Hmmm...
> 
> I REALLY don't need more soap. Let me wrap some and see if I can find rack space.:think:


 
Christmas is coming! That means that every body you know needs soap. Then you can start fresh with lots of space for soap!


----------



## dixiedragon (Dec 2, 2015)

I ready the Auntie Clara posts and she mentions experimenting with temp to get the effects. Anybody have any guidelines? It's pretty warm in Alabama right now (temps in the 60s), so room temp is 60-70. Should I wrap the soap in a towel, or should I put it in a pre-warmed oven (probably in the range of 150).


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## songwind (Dec 2, 2015)

dixiedragon said:


> Christmas is coming! That means that every body you know needs soap. Then you can start fresh with lots of space for soap!



I thought this was true at all times? 

Whenever our stash of extra soap gets too large, we just bring it all out during a party or something and let people take whatever they want.


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## dixiedragon (Dec 2, 2015)

songwind said:


> I thought this was true at all times?
> 
> Whenever our stash of extra soap gets too large, we just bring it all out during a party or something and let people take whatever they want.


 
Well, obviously. :mrgreen: But during the holiday season, you can get away with giving gifts your mail person, garbage collectors, random strangers and not be seen as a weirdo.


----------



## Saponista (Dec 2, 2015)

Lol what you don't do that normally? The boiler fixer man was slightly bemused when I gave him some last week, but I foist it off on people all year round!!


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## Obsidian (Dec 2, 2015)

I'm planing trying today but I wanted to use my pvc mold and I'm not sure how to gel it. Its cold here so I need to cpop, not sure it will fit in the oven. Guess I'll have to change my plans.


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## newbie (Dec 2, 2015)

Thank you, DeeAnna for providing the percentages. I hadn't thought of that. 

I have gelled normally (I usually use a heating pad and blankets because I soap cooler and it won't always gel or gel completely) and used the water bath at around 135-145 degrees. Both work but I think I got better results with the water bath. Seems like I got more variation but that is purely subjective. 

Also, I think Nurture's Juicy Apricot would work.

DOn't forget that you can leave your low water part unscented and put your fragrance in your high water part, just like you would with a dc'ing FO when you want part of your soap to be white or colored. If you try a couple time, it's worth trying low water unscented because you will be dumb-struck with how much time you have and you can use that as a baseline. One time, I made low water and I was waiting for it to get thick. I turned over my garden, planted 60 bulbs, made a cup of tea, putzed around and two hours later, it was still too thin for what I wanted so I gave up and poured. On the blue soap, I got everything colored and stirred and started, left it on the counter and went to the store, came back and still had to wait and stir and wait and stir to make my soap. It is a big gun in the arsenal if you need/want time to color or do lengthy stuff.

Happy first challenge, Mazi!!!


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## Obsidian (Dec 2, 2015)

Thats confusing newbie, my low water portion reached trace much faster then then high water portion. I used masterbatched oils and added the non accelerating FO blend to the oils before splitting it.
Discovered I'm low on oils, if this attempt fails, I'll have to pull out. I could see a color difference in the batters once in the mold, its in the oven now. Not the best of designs, I just kinda dumped it in a slab mold. Should have used a loaf, oh well.


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## lionprincess00 (Dec 2, 2015)

A non accelerating fo at 33-30% lye concentration may actually accelerate, and if using low water it will take off. I only use 40% lye anymore, except for November's challenge (because I hadn't used the blue soaps blended fo's before and had one shot to film). It's true. OT's mysore sandalwood took 50-60 minutes to reach medium trace. That's why it's important, if using low water, to bite the bullet and try different supposed non A fos and experiment to see. It's probably the fo does accelerate slightly and using low water accelerated it. I've tried to list all I could and will continue my experiments with fos to find non A ones in low water. I will always be willing to share my findings with smf. Emulsion is important to slow it even further. To go from emulsion to medium is so much slower than reaching a slightly thickened light trace and then going to medium. Emulsion only slows it even more.


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## dixiedragon (Dec 2, 2015)

Obsidian said:


> I'm planing trying today but I wanted to use my pvc mold and I'm not sure how to gel it. Its cold here so I need to cpop, not sure it will fit in the oven. Guess I'll have to change my plans.


 
Get a 5 gallon bucket, line it with a towel. Put your pipe in there. Wet a hand towel, nuke it till it's piping hot, then put it in the bucket and cover with a towel.


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## newbie (Dec 2, 2015)

If there is any question about the FO, don't use it in the low water portion. I've use low water many times and it is very very very slow moving with no or the right FO. Even a slightly accelerating FO, that you can't tell accelerates in high water, will be extremely speedy in low water. Regardless of the trace though, the difference between high and low water after gelling will be apparent. 

If you decide to take a flier with your FO, try putting just 1/4-1/2 of what you would normally put in that much batter. It increases your chances of success. 

Also, as I mention in the video, just take your low water batter to emulsion. It's a bit harder to judge because it doesn't get as opaque. Err on the less stick blended side because you can still stir or use a small hand blender after you color. Taking it to light trace will still give you okay time but taking it to emulsion is better. 

I know, it's repeating what LP said but it's true and once you see it, you will realize what a valuable tool it can be, low water.

Re: the bigger round mold, do you have one of the bed buddies? You can heat it up in the microwave and put it in the bucket under the towels. Or you could put a bunch of rice in a fabric bag, heat it inthe microwave and use that. I hope you find a way!


----------



## QueenBeeSoap (Dec 2, 2015)

Sounds like a really interesting challenge!  Might as well sign up now and figure out the logistics of how I'll find time to work on it later (details, details...) 8)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap
7. Sonya-m - ooh I love a technical challenge!!
8. BlackDog - this challenge is totally out of my league!
9. dibbles - I see flops in my future!
10. doriettefarm - I'm game but frantically searching for FOs that behave in low water!
11. Judiraz- I've been wanting to do this with color...lots of ideas.
12. CaraBou - You know I'll do it anyway; might as well commit myself now so I can't back out from showing
13. Mrs Spaceship - is terrified. 
14. DeeAnna. I don't have time for this -- it's my super crazy incredibly busy season at work -- but I'm gonna make time.
15. Commoncenz - Why, oh WHY do I do this to myself?
16. KristaY - I hope I have time in the Christmas craziness!
17. mazimazi - my first SMF challenge, yaaay!
18. Rowan - terrified and excited at the same time!
19. QueenBeeSoap - Count me in!


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## QueenBeeSoap (Dec 2, 2015)

Newbie, your soaps turned out so well!  The blue and white soap soap is especially stunning.  Did you use any fragrance in the soap?  Cutting the soaps vertically was a great idea.  I was shocked at how long the low water soap stayed fluid compared to the higher water soap - not what I would have expected given the conventional soaping advice to use more water when you need more time for swirls.

DeeAnna, thanks for converting the ratios to lye concentration percentages!  

Saponista, good idea to check the Soap Scent Review Board.  I signed up not too long ago and hope there's some useful information there. (If anyone else is looking for it, you can find it at http://soapscentreview.obisoap.ca/).


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## Steve85569 (Dec 2, 2015)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap
7. Sonya-m - ooh I love a technical challenge!!
8. BlackDog - this challenge is totally out of my league!
9. dibbles - I see flops in my future!
10. doriettefarm - I'm game but frantically searching for FOs that behave in low water!
11. Judiraz- I've been wanting to do this with color...lots of ideas.
12. CaraBou - You know I'll do it anyway; might as well commit myself now so I can't back out from showing
13. Mrs Spaceship - is terrified. 
14. DeeAnna. I don't have time for this -- it's my super crazy incredibly busy season at work -- but I'm gonna make time.
15. Commoncenz - Why, oh WHY do I do this to myself?
16. KristaY - I hope I have time in the Christmas craziness!
17. mazimazi - my first SMF challenge, yaaay!
18. Rowan - terrified and excited at the same time!
19. QueenBeeSoap - Count me in!
20. Steve85569 - I may be in trouble for this but I'm in!


----------



## doriettefarm (Dec 2, 2015)

newbie said:


> Also, I think Nurture's Juicy Apricot would work.



Dang it, I was THIS close to putting Juicy Apricot in my cart during Nurture's free shipping sale on Sat!  Why did I have to pick Frangipani Jasmine instead?  DOH!


----------



## newbie (Dec 2, 2015)

Yes, QueenBee both the pink and the blue have FO in them. I have to go back to see what I used but my recollection is that I used Juicy Apricot for the blue and Blackberry Sage and Champagne for the pink. That's a guess though. Prepping for my trip so don't have time to go check!


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## mazimazi (Dec 3, 2015)

Saponista said:


> Welcome mazimazi  I wish UK suppliers sold the same fragrances. I have to test everything and it drives me mad.



Thanks! Iwill check the list and add my experiences, I have FOs from Gracefruit (this one has some info withbthe description) and Sensory Perfection. If I'm really worried I just use lavender, orange, lemon or peppermint EO, those are always safe


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## mazimazi (Dec 3, 2015)

Saponista said:


> Welcome mazimazi  I wish UK suppliers sold the same fragrances. I have to test everything and it drives me mad.



Thanks! Iwill check the list and add my experiences, I have FOs from Gracefruit (this one has some info withbthe description) and Sensory Perfection. If I'm really worried I just use lavender, orange, lemon or peppermint EO, those are always safe


----------



## newbie (Dec 3, 2015)

I recall peppermint as thickening up quickly but it's been a while.

Again, you don't need to SB much to get to emulsion. Err on the side of blending less because you can stir and blend once you have your batter colored.


----------



## lionprincess00 (Dec 3, 2015)

Helpful hint-
Do not sb your colorants nor fo. Wisk with a silicone coated wisk instead. 
Sb to emulsion, split, color, wisk, add fo, wisk. Pour.

The one time I tried adding an accelerating fo to my oils before lye, sea moss by bb, I got soap on a stick. The one time before that I used sea moss and added after I split and colored, it accelerated but was pourable. I will never addan fo to oils before lye again lol! It works for some, but I find it easier to split and color before adding fragrance. 

Newbie can you post the link to your video showing emulsion? Just as a refresher to us and maybe to others that haven't seen it yet. Emulsion is key


----------



## Judiraz (Dec 3, 2015)

Has anyone tried this yet? I did a batch last night about 7 PM. I used my lard recipe that moves slowly. I only added my FO ( Love Spell) to the high water portion. This was poured in a small mold that I usually have trouble gelling so I put it on a heating pad on low for 4 hours. Took it off the pad but left it covered. I just checked it 18 hours after pouring and its still very warm! Never had that before!


----------



## Obsidian (Dec 3, 2015)

Yep, I made mine yesterday. I have very definite color differences but the design is terrible. My high water portion was thinner then the low water so I couldn't get the bullseye pour I was going for, its just kind of blobby but is interesting. The cut edges are pretty cool though, lots of haloing, I really do wish I would have used a loaf mold and did a drop pour.

I cpop at 145*, much lower then I normally cpop at and I got a ton of ash. I could actually see the ash while it was in full gel. I'll have to do some clean-up to remove the ash and surface bubbles.

My FO was a blend of balsam and a non accelerating floral.


----------



## TeresaT (Dec 3, 2015)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap
7. Sonya-m - ooh I love a technical challenge!!
8. BlackDog - this challenge is totally out of my league!
9. dibbles - I see flops in my future!
10. doriettefarm - I'm game but frantically searching for FOs that behave in low water!
11. Judiraz- I've been wanting to do this with color...lots of ideas.
12. CaraBou - You know I'll do it anyway; might as well commit myself now so I can't back out from showing
13. Mrs Spaceship - is terrified. 
14. DeeAnna. I don't have time for this -- it's my super crazy incredibly busy season at work -- but I'm gonna make time.
15. Commoncenz - Why, oh WHY do I do this to myself?
16. KristaY - I hope I have time in the Christmas craziness!
17. mazimazi - my first SMF challenge, yaaay!
18. Rowan - terrified and excited at the same time!
19. QueenBeeSoap - Count me in!
20. TeresaT - I have no idea what's going on, but my awesome math skills will save me!


----------



## Steve85569 (Dec 3, 2015)

I've got oil for the batch and lye water in the fridge so I'm in ( I think).

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap
7. Sonya-m - ooh I love a technical challenge!!
8. BlackDog - this challenge is totally out of my league!
9. dibbles - I see flops in my future!
10. doriettefarm - I'm game but frantically searching for FOs that behave in low water!
11. Judiraz- I've been wanting to do this with color...lots of ideas.
12. CaraBou - You know I'll do it anyway; might as well commit myself now so I can't back out from showing
13. Mrs Spaceship - is terrified. 
14. DeeAnna. I don't have time for this -- it's my super crazy incredibly busy season at work -- but I'm gonna make time.
15. Commoncenz - Why, oh WHY do I do this to myself?
16. KristaY - I hope I have time in the Christmas craziness!
17. mazimazi - my first SMF challenge, yaaay!
18. Rowan - terrified and excited at the same time!
19. QueenBeeSoap - Count me in!
20. TeresaT - I have no idea what's going on, but my awesome math skills will save me! 
             21. Steve85569 - I think I got it this time.  I'm still in trouble though!


----------



## lenarenee (Dec 3, 2015)

newbie said:


> I recall peppermint as thickening up quickly but it's been a while.
> 
> Again, you don't need to SB much to get to emulsion. Err on the side of blending less because you can stir and blend once you have your batter colored.


 
Weird, I was going to say the opposite because I've made 4 two lb recipes of peppermint eo and had all the time in the world. However, my recipe was high lard with no td added, and either Nurture's really red, or Mad Oils  blue micas - twilight and bling.


----------



## Judiraz (Dec 4, 2015)

Obsidian- I cut mine tonite. I love it, but I don'T think I will be able to get the subtle variances to show up on camera. Hey...any photography gurus, any hints for getting fine detail with an iPhone 6?


----------



## kumudini (Dec 4, 2015)

Can someone add me to the list ..I just need to find a good source of lye, here in India.


----------



## Obsidian (Dec 4, 2015)

kumudini said:


> Can someone add me to the list ..I just need to find a good source of lye, here in India.




1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap
7. Sonya-m - ooh I love a technical challenge!!
8. BlackDog - this challenge is totally out of my league!
9. dibbles - I see flops in my future!
10. doriettefarm - I'm game but frantically searching for FOs that behave in low water!
11. Judiraz- I've been wanting to do this with color...lots of ideas.
12. CaraBou - You know I'll do it anyway; might as well commit myself now so I can't back out from showing
13. Mrs Spaceship - is terrified. 
14. DeeAnna. I don't have time for this -- it's my super crazy incredibly busy season at work -- but I'm gonna make time.
15. Commoncenz - Why, oh WHY do I do this to myself?
16. KristaY - I hope I have time in the Christmas craziness!
17. mazimazi - my first SMF challenge, yaaay!
18. Rowan - terrified and excited at the same time!
19. QueenBeeSoap - Count me in!
20. TeresaT - I have no idea what's going on, but my awesome math skills will save me! 
             21. Steve85569 - I think I got it this time.  I'm still in trouble though!
22. kumudini - let the lye hunt begin!


----------



## skayc1 (Dec 4, 2015)

TheDragonGirl said:


> huh, I thought December's challenge was going to need a column mold though, did that get changed?



Me too! I think I'll find a way to use my pringles cans...maybe try ribbed soap...


----------



## Cactuslily (Dec 4, 2015)

I've been wanting to try this since reading Auntie Claras post. Well...I'm in, but once again can't copy and paste. Can someone add me to the list? please? #23?


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## Saponista (Dec 4, 2015)

You need to get the lighting right judiraz. I have taken some great shots with my iPhone. Make a light box with some thin white card and shine some desk lamps through it to get diffused light. 

http://m.wikihow.com/Create-an-Inexpensive-Photography-Lightbox


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## DeeAnna (Dec 4, 2015)

If you don't have a light box setup, you can get good results with three sources of light -- or even one source of light and 1 or 2 reflectors. The photo is how I usually do things. More tips including a couple of articles about using your smart phone camera for product photography: http://www.handmadeology.com/category/product-photography-tips/


----------



## DeeAnna (Dec 4, 2015)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap
7. Sonya-m - ooh I love a technical challenge!!
8. BlackDog - this challenge is totally out of my league!
9. dibbles - I see flops in my future!
10. doriettefarm - I'm game but frantically searching for FOs that behave in low water!
11. Judiraz- I've been wanting to do this with color...lots of ideas.
12. CaraBou - You know I'll do it anyway; might as well commit myself now so I can't back out from showing
13. Mrs Spaceship - is terrified.
14. DeeAnna. I don't have time for this -- it's my super crazy incredibly busy season at work -- but I'm gonna make time.
15. Commoncenz - Why, oh WHY do I do this to myself?
16. KristaY - I hope I have time in the Christmas craziness!
17. mazimazi - my first SMF challenge, yaaay!
18. Rowan - terrified and excited at the same time!
19. QueenBeeSoap - Count me in!
20. TeresaT - I have no idea what's going on, but my awesome math skills will save me!
21. Steve85569 - I think I got it this time. I'm still in trouble though!
22. kumudini - let the lye hunt begin! 
23. Cactuslily - I've been wanting to try this since reading Auntie Claras post.


----------



## songwind (Dec 4, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> If you don't have a light box setup, you can get good results with three sources of light -- or even one source of light and 1 or 2 reflectors. The photo is how I usually do things. More tips including a couple of articles about using your smart phone camera for product photography: http://www.handmadeology.com/category/product-photography-tips/



You should add "Soapguyver" to your forum signature.


----------



## Judiraz (Dec 5, 2015)

DeeAnn, thanks for the super info. I'm going to do this today and see how it works.


----------



## BlackDog (Dec 5, 2015)

DeeAnna those are some luscious-looking soaps!   And a nice light setup too


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## DeeAnna (Dec 5, 2015)

Hey, Songwind -- I can't take credit for my MacGyver photography setup. I got these ideas from a series of tutorials written and photographed by a New York City photographer named Mariano. In my previous post, I gave a link to Handmadeology where I originally found his articles, but I now see a number of them are either gone or are not working properly (photos missing, page not loading). I uploaded the PDF files I made of these articles to my website, giving full credit to the author. I hope they are as helpful to other soapers as they are to me. See http://classicbells.com/soap/photoTips.html


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## dibbles (Dec 5, 2015)

I did a 1 lb trial batch today. I didn't use any color or fragrance (other than a small amount mixed with activated charcoal for the top). I waited until the low water batter was just beginning to show signs of trace and mixed the high water portion. Both stayed fluid for a very long time. I was soaping at about 80-85. The high water was probably even cooler as I waited for 20-30 minutes for the low water batter. Both were very fluid when I poured, so I don't know how much definition I will see when I cut. I did CPOP, but probably didn't need to. The soap got quite hot, and I do have some pock marks on the sides and bottom (silicone mold). The first picture is just out of the oven, and it is interesting that it appears to be gelling from the outside toward the center. Any thoughts? The second picture is after cooling. Clearly signs of overheating on the top.


----------



## CaraBou (Dec 5, 2015)

I have no explanations but it looks cool dibbles!  Sounds like it worked beautifully.  Hope you got a nice pattern inside.


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## Saponista (Dec 6, 2015)

It looks lovely dibbles, can't wait to see the cut!


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## dibbles (Dec 6, 2015)

I'll post a cut picture once I know I won't need to use it as an entry. I don't plan to, but venturing into the world of adding color and fragrance could be "interesting". There is a difference in the high and low water colors, which is pretty darn cool.


----------



## newbie (Dec 7, 2015)

With coop, you are introducing heat from the outside in so for mine, gelling starts along the edges and moves inward. It's possible that by the time the mass of the center starts gelling, it can overheat a touch. Coop is tricky for me so others may not have this issue. Pretty soap!


----------



## dibbles (Dec 7, 2015)

newbie said:


> With coop, you are introducing heat from the outside in so for mine, gelling starts along the edges and moves inward. It's possible that by the time the mass of the center starts gelling, it can overheat a touch. Coop is tricky for me so others may not have this issue. Pretty soap!



That makes sense, especially since it was a small 1 lb mold. Thanks!


----------



## BlackDog (Dec 7, 2015)

Currently waiting for my low-water batch to reach trace. Hooo boy, this challenge is not for sissies. I checked my math like 80 times before starting and still managed a measuring mistake. Luckily I caught it before it went in the pot ("hhhmmm, that looks like a lot more than 3 ounces of lye....")

Here goes!


----------



## Steve85569 (Dec 7, 2015)

BlackDog said:


> Currently waiting for my low-water batch to reach trace. Hooo boy, this challenge is not for sissies. I checked my math like 80 times before starting and still managed a measuring mistake. Luckily I caught it before it went in the pot ("hhhmmm, that looks like a lot more than 3 ounces of lye....")
> 
> Here goes!




My first attempt was a total math wreck!!!
If the people where I used to work for knew I'd never live it down.
Got "smart" the second time and tried a "trusted" FO. Almost didn't get the soap in the mold.

Third time I made a spreadsheet for the math and followed directions. Looks like I can be taught things after all.

I thinking now that this is something I will be doing more of.

I'm a man and I can change. If I have to. I guess.:mrgreen:


----------



## BlackDog (Dec 7, 2015)

Update: this stuff is ridiculous.  I just CPOPed for an hour and went to take it out of the oven to wrap it in a blanket. It's still a little sloshy lol. I forsee a long wait to cut in my future.


----------



## gigisiguenza (Dec 7, 2015)

I want so bad to try this challenge but I am in the middle of packing to move next week and I'm out of a lot of soap oils, with no cash for more til next month. Grrrr!


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## Misschief (Dec 8, 2015)

gigisiguenza said:


> I want so bad to try this challenge but I am in the middle of packing to move next week and I'm out of a lot of soap oils, with no cash for more til next month. Grrrr!



I won't be trying it yet either, Gigi, as much as I'd like to; there's just too much on my plate right now. I hope your move goes well and that it's a move up.


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## gigisiguenza (Dec 8, 2015)

Misschief said:


> I won't be trying it yet either, Gigi, as much as I'd like to; there's just too much on my plate right now. I hope your move goes well and that it's a move up.



I feel the same way, too much on my plate right now. It is a move up, sorta LOL. My cousin is helping me get into an apartment on my own, so I don't have to deal with roommates any more. It's going to be harder to make the bills, but it's got to be done. Once I move, I'll have to start figuring out how to generate a side income that works around my current work schedule and my hit n miss exhaustion/chronic pain. I'm a woman on a mission, so watch out LOL.


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## dixiedragon (Dec 8, 2015)

Did one batch, it's pretty interesting. I think the variations might actually be more dramatic in a single color, so I'm going to try that next.

I did mine 50/50. When I mixed, the lye was 85 degrees and the oils were 110 (approximately). I added my FO (BB's White Tea and Ginger, behaved beautifully), my color (blended beforehand in about 1 T of olive oil). I stick blended for about 5 minutes, I think. I did not get even thin trace. Poured in my mold - 1 HPDE log mold and 2 small silicone 1 lb molds. Put in pre-warmed oven which was 150 degrees. After a while (not sure how long here, maybe an hour?), I didn't see gel and the oven had dropped to 100, so I turned the oven back on. Oven thermometer read 200 and I turned it off again. I had to go someplace so I left for about 2 hrs. I never saw gel, but the oven was still 100. 

Anything I should do differently to get more dramatic affects?


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## newbie (Dec 8, 2015)

You have to get gel no matter how long it takes because it's the difference in the gelling that gives the effect. I think you'd have to keep it under heat for longer so either in the oven for longer, on a heating pad or trying the water bath, which will transfer heat better to the soap. Low water gets very hard. The low water can take a long time to firm up in the mold but it can crack if you leave it too long after gelling.

Where are people running into the math problems? I must say a 50/50 split between the high and low I'd easiest math-wise, I think.

Best variation in color.... Hard to say. I think I got more using ultramarines than Micah's but I still got some with no as. I suspect pigments might give more variation than mica because of mica's particle nature but that's speculation.


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## dixiedragon (Dec 8, 2015)

I'm pretty sure I got gel b/c I see some of the effect I was supposed to see. I'm wondering if I should try to gel longer or hotter?


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## BlackDog (Dec 8, 2015)

Ok folks, help me trouble-shoot. Since I was confident this challenge would require more than one attempt, I kept it simple. I did a basic castile recipe with an easy spoon swirl. No color and no fragrance. 

I CPOPed for an hour at about 150F  (the lowest my oven goes) and wrapped in a blanket overnight. I just cut it at about 20 hours after pour. 

The LW portion was almost too hard to cut, and because of the pressure while cutting, chunks of the HW portion came off (see photo). 

I also don't see any of the "halo" effect.  

Did I just wait too long to cut or did I do something wrong with the technique? 

My recipe: 100% olive oil. HW: 1:2.4, LW: 1:1.4.  I did not use any other additives.


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## lionprincess00 (Dec 8, 2015)

BlackDog said:


> Ok folks, help me trouble-shoot. Since I was confident this challenge would require more than one attempt, I kept it simple. I did a basic castile recipe with an easy spoon swirl. No color and no fragrance.
> 
> I CPOPed for an hour at about 150F  (the lowest my oven goes) and wrapped in a blanket overnight. I just cut it at about 20 hours after pour.
> 
> ...


I only use low water and have to cut within 4-8 hours. If i cut low water over 12 hours later my bars tend to split. Newbie  doesn't seem to have this issue like i do. Id recommend an early soapy session and cutting as soon as it can be unmolded. 
No halo, maybe  they both reached gel. Id try working early in the day and monitoring the high  water for gel. Off heat immediately.  Cut as soon as can unmold. 

Just my 2 cent  suggestions


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## BlackDog (Dec 8, 2015)

lionprincess00 said:


> I only use low water and have to cut within 4-8 hours. If i cut low water over 12 hours later my bars tend to split.



Oh wow!  That is short!  I normally cut between 28-36 hours so I thought 20 might be ok.  wrong wrong wrong.  Looks like I'll be waiting till the weekend for the next try.  Thank you for the help!


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## CaraBou (Dec 9, 2015)

lionprincess00 said:


> Id try working early in the day and monitoring the high  water for gel. Off heat immediately.  Cut as soon as can unmold.


Those are words of the wise. I soaped late at night and couldn't stay up long enough to babysit the gel.  I think both parts gelled; it's a beautiful soap but I did not get the intended effect.  Live and learn!  

Next weekend I have guests, so I'll be pushing the deadline before I can soap again.


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## newbie (Dec 9, 2015)

I don't think every soap produces a halo. If you look at Auntie Clara'a ghost swirl, it's more the contrast in the gelled and ungelled batter that gives the look than a halo'ing effect. Since you didn't use colorants, I think that your soap turned out as AC knight have predicted. The only reason I don't have much trouble with cutting is because I have no patience at all and so tend to cut too soon, which works to my advantage with low water. If it gels, you have to cut soon because it's hard as a danged rock. I had no idea anyone had it in them to wait 36 hours to cut!!

Here is someone who used no colorants except the slight darkening from using tea. Not much halo'ing at all but they did get a touch more variation because of the soap "trapped"
Within the leaf. 

http://www.magstatt.com/?p=669


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## dibbles (Dec 9, 2015)

The soap I made without color added didn't have a halo. There was a variation in the color. I am sure both high and low water parts gelled. So, just to understand; we don't want both parts to gel?


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## newbie (Dec 9, 2015)

Personally when I have done this combo, my impression is that the low water part does not gel the same way. I have made just low water soaps that have clearly heated and gelled but it is much different than a high water batter. The low water doesn't get nearly so soft nor does it get as translucent while in gel. I don't know about the temp differences but my impression is that high water gets far hotter. I guess that leads me to think the low water may gel at lower temps and go first, then the high water part goes. If you take your soap through gel phase, which you should be able to tell by looking, that should do the trick. You can't control the temps such that you can get one section to go and the other not to. It's just the difference in gelling temps and speed that give the effect.

I believe Auntie Clara speculates that high water soaps gels at lower temps. What I wrote above is just my speculation based on what I feel for temps with my hand.

I will say that it appears to me that the low water doesn't gel when I look at the soap. The low water stays firm and lighter but it undoubtedly is doing its own thing. Take the soap through gel phase and all should be good. I'm sorry if I confused people.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 9, 2015)

No speculation about it -- high water soaps really do go into gel at a lower temperature than low water soaps. Once in gel, high water soaps will stay that way for a longer time than low water soaps. 

That all seems contrary to "common sense" but that's the way soap chemistry often is. I can give you an explanation of why this is true, but the answer is super-geeky, so I'm just going to ask you to take me on faith about that at the moment.

The gel state of soap is not anything magic -- it's just a simple physical change of state from a solid form to a vaseline-y semi-liquid form simply due to the heat it experiences. The heat can be created by the soap itself when it is saponifying or the heat can be added externally from your oven, a heating pad, or whatever.

The point of Auntie Clara's experiments is that she added enough extra heat to make sure the high water soap got hot enough to gel ... and stayed that way long enough for the high and low water soaps to begin to look distinctively different.


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## dibbles (Dec 9, 2015)

Thank you Newbie. I think the confusion re gel phase is mine. When I was reading AC's crop circle blog post, it seemed that she believed both high and low water parts gelled. I'm pretty sure both parts of my batter gelled, but the low water was largely hidden and I wasn't using a colorant (except a small amount on the top), so I'm not absolutely positive. I will be trying again, probably Friday or over the weekend and wanted to know if I should be trying to prevent either part from gel phase. But, soap will do what soap will do and I'll just go with whatever happens. I don't have too much experience with CPOP but would like to get that figured out as well. Though I might go with the heating pad to start next round and see how that works too.


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## dibbles (Dec 9, 2015)

DeeAnna, it looks like we were posting at the same time. Thanks for your input as well!


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## Obsidian (Dec 9, 2015)

Are you guys seeing more color difference with uncolored or colored soap? I'm really thinking about trying this again but I'm not sure what to do. My last batch was colored copper and the darker bits are a pinky flesh color.


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## Steve85569 (Dec 9, 2015)

I just cut a colored batch - don't even ask how many tries this is - and WOW!!!
The differences between the high and low water soaps from the same batter and coloring are amazing!
I did two colors and two waters. The only way I could tell that both water contents gelled was the trace of glycerine on both when I cut.
I will refrain from posting pictures for now. I think I just cut my entry soap!

There was a question earlier about what was the problem with the math, heat etc. I know for me all of the trouble I had with this challenge came from a lack of experience and expertice. But that is exactly why I signed on for the challenge! I is the challenge of learning and I learn quite a lot by making mistakes ( DW says I know a lot guess what that says). Watching someone with lots of experience make soap is akin to stepping in to my work place and thinking "what he is doing is simple. Anyone can do that." Wrong. It takes practice and planning.

Several take aways for me include.
Don't trust an FO to behave the same at different water concentrations.
Prep carefully. Set everything up mentally first. Then check when set up is done that it is really going to work as planned.
Double check any manual calculations. Do not assume.
Am I really making the same thing that soapcalc calculated or did I leave something out? Check everything. Twice.


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## Obsidian (Dec 9, 2015)

I just poured attempt #2. Its 2 parts low water, 1 part high water in a simple ITPS. I tried something a little different, I used discoloring EO's, mostly lemongrass & 5x orange with a little ginger lime FO to tame down the sharp citrus. Its tucked away in the oven now


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## Judiraz (Dec 9, 2015)

Below is a picture of an experiment I did right after I read the Ghost Swirl article.
I had to use a heating pad for the first time to make sure I gelled and I watched it like a hawk. Both high & low gelled but as DeeAnna said, they gelled differently. High water was markedly translucent and more liquid. The low water also gelled, but looked more opaque. I see more difference in this batch then the two colored ones I've tried so far.


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## Saponista (Dec 9, 2015)

In itching to get a chance to soap, I've had too many craft fairs recently. Hopefully Friday will be the day. I'm so excited to try this technique! 

This is an example of the difference between high and low water, I was attempting to make a feather swirl with a round embed to look like a peacock feather and ran out of uncoloured batter so off the top of my head made up more, but only had the full water recipe in my head. I didn't think it would make much difference at the time, but as you can see the cream and white sections are drastically different simply due to the water difference. Needless to say I messed up the whole soap while messing around doing this as the soap set on my divider and when I pulled it out the whole thing got mushed into a distorted mess. I think it is a grey example of high/low water difference though.


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## dibbles (Dec 9, 2015)

Judiraz said:


> Below is a picture of an experiment I did right after I read the Ghost Swirl article.



That is lovely looking soap!


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## songwind (Dec 10, 2015)

Do both portions have to gel? It seems like if the high water section gelled and the low water did not it would make them stand out even more.


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## CaraBou (Dec 10, 2015)

It seems like there are contradictory results here (really?  with soap?? Noooo!).  So I suggest that everyone keep a really good record of things, including:
  *your pattern (knowing where within your mold you placed your high and low water portions - pay special note to the top and bottom since these are easiest to track)
  *signs of gel throughout the process (translucency or other color changes)
  *temps throughout the process (how much heat did you apply, when, and for how long? what kind of heat?)
  *any "abnormaliites" (i.e., COOL STUFF) you observe throughout the process

You do not have to divulge these details until you want to (if ever), but at least you will understand it better yourself and can adjust your method for future tries.

I did not keep good enough notes from my first batch, nor did I observe closely enough, so I'm not clear exactly what happened. When I'm not so lazy to take/process pics (maybe this weekend?) I will post my first failure, though without good notes I don't know how helpful - or confusing - it will be. I see a few clues, so maybe others will be able to help interpret.  I truly want to understand this phenomena so I will be paying more attention next time.  That doesn't mean I'll succeed but hopefully I'll be closer to understanding the truth.  

SCIENCE!!!


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## Saponista (Dec 10, 2015)

Sadly I don't remember which part of my soap was high and low as I just picked up the pots and poured them into the mould at random to top up the mould. I will be sure to make notes for my challenge attempts.


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## newbie (Dec 10, 2015)

What a fantastic soap, Saponista!! It's extremely artsy and for a mess, as younfeltmit was, it came out just a splendid soap! And yes, I think it does show the difference between high and low.

Auntie
Clara made no mention of trying to control the temp such that the low water portions do not gel. I have no idea if you can or not. When my high water portions gel, they get very hot and hotter to my hand than any low water soap has ever felt during gel. I think just trying to get a solid gel is the first order of the day because trying to regulate temps like that is another level of finesse. I'm not there!

 Saw some handmade soaps here. VERY expensive and part of that I'm sure is the cost of shipping supplies here. Nothing to do with the challenge but I thought I'd post it anyhow. The very small bars cost five dollars and the larger bars around ten to eleven. Made of rapeseed and coconut.
I can't load two pics at once off my phone


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## Obsidian (Dec 10, 2015)

Both my attempts worked ok, I definitely have different colors but I'm not particularly impressed, at least not with my soap. Its too hard to tell where the batters are going when pouring so the results are pretty muddled.
Its a neat concept and really interesting but there are easier ways to get contrasting colors.


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## newbie (Dec 10, 2015)

It will be interesting to see what people get. On some of my soaps, it wasn't contrasting colors that made it so interesting. I got shades within shades and lots of outlining of color sections. It looked nothing like working only with a couple different colors because of the shading and the softness it gave. I'll post a pic when I get home.

https://m.facebook.com/helka.finn/albums/756865624411156/?_rdr

If you look at the colors, you can see some of them got nice outlining and variation. I used one color of pink, one of purple, one of yellow and one of green. The pink and purple showed the best, I think.


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## Rowan (Dec 10, 2015)

I absolutely love your soap, the colours are beautiful, but what catches my attention the most are the soft gradations in colour. It's so lovely. Gentle but bright at the same time. It made my heart skip a beat!


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## Judiraz (Dec 10, 2015)

Newbie, That's a stunning soap. I love the snake head bar! Absolutely beautiful colors and you git a lot of variation.


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## newbie (Dec 10, 2015)

Thank you. I scored pretty poorly in that challenge but I was very happy with the soap. I still love that snake head and still have it. And yes, exactly about the shading and the softness it gives the soap. I think that is the biggest draw for me with this technique; you get something different than the flatter singular colors and it softens it up a lot and lends a sort of depth. I'm hoping other people will get some similar results or we can see what else this technique can do.


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## dibbles (Dec 10, 2015)

Agreed - stunning soap Newbie


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## Steve85569 (Dec 10, 2015)

CaraBou said:


> I will post my first failure, though without good notes I don't know how helpful - or confusing - it will be. I see a few clues, so maybe others will be able to help interpret.  I truly want to understand this phenomena so I will be paying more attention next time.  That doesn't mean I'll succeed but hopefully I'll be closer to understanding the truth.
> 
> SCIENCE!!!



If you want to see my first attempts ( failures) they are posted in the ugly soaps thread.


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## CaraBou (Dec 10, 2015)

newbie said:


> Auntie Clara made no mention of trying to control the temp such that the low water portions do not gel. I have no idea if you can or not.



Actually, she did mention this, at least twice. I think she was trying to impress the idea of not exceeding 60 C / 140 F. But then again newbie, I thought you were too with your constant temp water bath.

First time Auntie Clara mentioned it was in the September / Ghost Swirl post about 1/5 of the way down the page: 
_Those who have read Kevin Dunn’s book Scientific Soapmaking carefully, will know that (everything else equal) a low water soap goes through saponification faster and enters full gel phase at a higher temperature than a high water soap does. In this case the 60C temperature kept in my oven was not high enough to force the uncovered low water soap to enter full gel phase. The high water soap, however, did go through full gel at that temperature. But, even though the low water soap did not go through full gel phase it probably was fully saponified before the high water soap was._​
The second was in Ghost Swirl Followup post, 5th paragraph:
_High water soap enters full gel phase at a lower temp than low water soap and we managed to manipulate the temperature so that it was high enough for the high water soap to enter full gel phase, but too low for the low water soap to enter gel phase. I.e. the high water soap went through full gel phase and the low water soap didn’t – at least not completely. _​


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## CaraBou (Dec 11, 2015)

Ok, here's my less than successful soap. It was 50:50 in the base (colored solely from yellow popcorn CO)and the greens (mica). There is little distinction in any of the bars except near the top, where you can see a limited amount of the 3D effect and a few whiter splotches that I assume are low water and ungelled/less gelled.  Most parts of the bars look the same, though (gelled).  For a 50:50, it looks more like a 90:10 to me.  I didn't stay up late enough to watch the gel or adjust the temp so I am not sure exactly how it all went down.

You know, the pics show the distinctions better than they show in real life, IMO.  It looks more convincing!

One thing I did weird was to have more a little more CO in the high water batter than in the low. I was thinking it might help that part gel easier.  Not sure exactly what effect (if any) that had, but I wish now I hadn't done it.  Next times I won't, until I get this figured out.  Then I might take another run at that because something is telling me to do it!

Anyway, your thoughts on why there isn't much difference?


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## newbie (Dec 11, 2015)

WPersonally, I have great difficult believing the low water does not go through gel. Because the high water part gets so hot in gel, over 200 degrees, and it is in cntact with the low water part, I can't see how it wouldn't trigger gel in the low water portion. Yes, low water may get hotter in gel but if I can get a low water soap to gel using just a heating pad. how would it resist gelling next to 200 degree batter? It would have had to be done sappnifiying and I have never had a low water soap be completely done sapponifying, without gelling, in 1-2 hours. Controlling the oven temp ensures the gel of the high water part but I believe the low water part does gel in this situation, just differently.

I know I have said gelied and ungelled parts in other posts. I think that's Inaccurate of me to say. At least I think so. It FEELS ungelled, the low water portions, but as I talk and think it through, I believe both Portions gel, which is supported by no zapping, as well. Sorry about all this. It's a process for me.

I reserve the right to argue myself out of this position.


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## ngian (Dec 11, 2015)

Judiraz said:


> Below is a picture of an experiment I did right after I read the Ghost Swirl article.
> I had to use a heating pad for the first time to make sure I gelled and I watched it like a hawk. Both high & low gelled but as DeeAnna said, they gelled differently. High water was markedly translucent and more liquid. The low water also gelled, but looked more opaque. I see more difference in this batch then the two colored ones I've tried so far.



This is great information Juridaz about the different color that different lye concentrations give when both gel. The reason must be the different moisture amount they have and maybe when they have a good cure, their colors (opaqueness) might be more similar at the end because of moisture evaporation.

Kevin Dunn has a nice description about how low and high water soaps behave at page 308:



> Clearly, the high water soap saponify more slowly than its low-water cousin. Because they contain the same quantities of oil and lye, both reactions must release the same amount of heat, but the low-water soap does so in a sort amount of time while the high-water soap releases heat gradually over a longer period.


So the peak temperature will be higher in low water, and lower in high water soaps.
He also says that low water soap gel at higher temperature in contrast with high water soaps, as gel phase temperature is moisture amount dependent.


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## newbie (Dec 11, 2015)

My read of auntie Clara is that she thinks perhaps the low water parts don't gel and that keeping soap at 140 degrees for gelling prevents the low water part from reaching gel. I think it must gel but looks different. That does beg the question though of why the different water portions look different in the end. I just have difficulty believing, particularly in a soap like her blue ultramarine one, how being surrounded by soap gelling at about 200 degrees doesn't trigger off gel in the low portions. In the ghost swirls, you would think that if both high and low water gelled, there would be less distinction between the two. I may have to make one of those when I get home and see for myself if the low water gels. I think I'll do a slab so I can check it more readily.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 11, 2015)

"...My read of auntie Clara is that she thinks perhaps the low water parts don't gel and that keeping soap at 140 degrees for gelling prevents the low water part from reaching gel. I think it must gel but looks different...."

I'm not sure I have the answers either, Newbie. What I have learned over time is that a soap that doesn't gel may still vary quite a bit in its appearance. Have you ever had a soap that saponified at fairly cool temps and the soap had a dry, almost powdery appearance to it? And other soap that you weren't certain actually went into gel -- meaning that soft, greasy, translucent vaseline-y stage -- but still ended up after saponification with a slightly-pliable waxy appearance as if it gelled? 

I'm pretty sure it is possible to get a soap to "near gel, but not gel" conditions and have it appear after saponification as if it actually did gel. At least I suspect I've seen this several times in my soapy adventures. In my reading in the murky world of soap making technology and chemistry, the soap maker technician chemist types make distinctions between different types of "curd" (solid) soaps from a fibrous solid to a waxy solid. I suspect that variation is what I'm seeing.

I've made up a diagram that's based on actual laboratory information that I think explains what we're trying to do with this challenge. 

Each region in the diagram is a different phase of soap -- curd  soap (solid), neat soap (translucent vaseline-y greasy), middle soap (waxy mashed potatoes), and isotropic (flowable liquid). The dashed areas on either side of the middle soap are the transition areas where the soap is gradually changing from one form to another. 

(Liquid soapers take note -- this diagram explains some things about why KOH soap paste does what it does during the cook, why the Facebook liquid soapers who cook their paste for hours may be totally misinterpreting what they're doing, and why diluting liquid soap can be so annoyingly difficult sometimes.)

I don't have time to explain more right now -- I absolutely have to get back to work -- but I'll post the diagram now and let you guys puzzle on it. I will be happy to answer questions and explain more later.


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## CaraBou (Dec 11, 2015)

Whoa... I'll have to wrap my head around that graph a little more before I can say (or ask) anything intelligent about it.  

But I did want to share this... I had the same thought you do, newbie, that it seems the low water portion would be forced into gel merely by touching the high water portion next to it (through heat conduction).  I can see where a difference in water could make a difference in color/pattern regardless of gel, but it's confusing me that so much emphasis has been put on temperature. I see your point though -- Auntie Clara had a theory about the effect of temp on gel, but that doesn't mean she was right.  Also, she did express uncertainty about whether the low water portion didn't gel at all, it gelled "not fully", or somehow just gelled differently.  That combined with your observations and theory (and probably DeeAnna's graph as well) made me say that it would be helpful if people make (and recorded) close observation.  I am hoping at the end of this challenge that people will divulge their observations so that we can collectively figure out what the mechanism for the color and pattern differences really are.  

Now back to me using different CO amounts... I couldn't fully articulate in my post last night about why I thought two different CO levels may help promote the "look" we are going for.  But since high CO gets hot and gels quick I was thinking that if the part I don't want to gel is low in CO, maybe it would increase the chance that my low water part doesn't gel even if my temp (140) wasn't right on the money.  I shouldn't have confounded things like that, and it's probably flawed or irrelevant logic, but that was my thought process in trying to improve the likelihood of differential gel.  We can ignore this sidetrack for now since it is not central to this discussion but at some point later I would like to come back to it.


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## Saponista (Dec 11, 2015)

I am toying with the idea of using puréed vegetable as a colourant. Do you think this is going to over complicate things and ruin any difference in appearance between the high and low water portions?


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## Steve85569 (Dec 11, 2015)

It is my very limited understanding that the low water soap goes through a partial gel which is what causes the halo effect.
If the low water soap goes into full gel or no gel ( if that's even possible) there is no halo effect but the color change can be rather dramatic.
I did a third attempt ( not yet posted) at this challenging challenge and it really seems to have worked. There are four distinct colors and everything shows signs of gel in various degrees. This has been a very interesting learning experience for me and a great excuse to make soap!


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## dibbles (Dec 11, 2015)

Try #2 is in the oven. I don't have especially high hopes, but we never know until we can cut it. I used an EO blend of 10x Orange, Patchouli and a little Litsea. No problems, so if anyone is still wondering about fragrances, this appears to be safe.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 11, 2015)

My problem is I have to fight to get the time and energy to make the darn soap! I really want to -- I'd love to have made 3 or 4 batches by now. In fact I even had a dream about making soap for this challenge the other night. That's pretty amazing because I seldom remember my dreams. But I'm so hugely busy and anxious about work right now. My husband forced me to take the afternoon off to get a massage, which was good, but now I'm back to fretting again. I'm hoping Sunday will be My Day to Soap.


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## Judiraz (Dec 11, 2015)

I'm back at it tomorrow. I have made 2so far, but neither is what I pictured in my mind.


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## CaraBou (Dec 11, 2015)

You have a good husband Dee.  I'm glad he is looking out for you.

I'm super busy at work too, but things should get easier in about a week. The entry thread will be open by then. If the desire to figure this challenge out doesn't drive me mad by then, maybe the deadline will.


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## jules92207 (Dec 12, 2015)

doriettefarm said:


> Actually I think it was jules that did the body butter with that FO combo, thanks for jogging my memory!



Yup! That's my staple. I probably sent the sample mix too.


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2015)

I hate to think of anyone fretting about a challenge! It's supposed to be fun but I do know what you mean about it.

Re: using carrots or a vegetable puree, I was hoping someone would try something like that or use oils infused with carious colorants to see what happens. I have to assume there would be the same effect because it's dependent on water content not the colorant, and even completely uncolored soap will show a difference between the two batters. I am wondering what would happen if someone used sugars in their soaps and what difference there might be as well; gel should be hotter so would that lead to less of a contrast, because the low water part would be more likely to gel? And if both parts gel,  if there is still a contrast, would it be less apparent over time with cure and loss of water weight?

The entry thread will not close until Dec 24th and hopefully there will be a calm night for some fun soaping before then for people. It's too stressful, it's definitely not worth it because then the challenges will be more nerve wracking than enjoyable. The technique will wait for you!


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## DeeAnna (Dec 12, 2015)

Oh, at least for me, the stress is about my work and about NOT being able to soap. I'm looking forward to making it.


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2015)

Oh good. I wasn't sure if your dream was an anxiety type dream, or a vacation type dream. Glad it was the pleasure/vacation type.


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## penelopejane (Dec 12, 2015)

newbie said:


> I am wondering what would happen if someone used sugars in their soaps and what difference there might be as well; gel should be hotter so would that lead to less of a contrast, because the low water part would be more likely to gel? And if both parts gel,  if there is still a contrast, would it be less apparent over time with cure and loss of water weight?



I don't know if this helps but I have made Castile soap (100% OO) and it is lighter than when I add honey and that is lighter than gelled plain Castile  (100% OO).  

When I add 1 TBS of honey per 2 pounds of oil and get it to gel it is even darker.

The contrast is the same now, after 3 months, as it was after about a week's cure.


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## CaraBou (Dec 12, 2015)

A little stress from a soap challenge is good...  a lot of stress from work isn't.  Big diff between the two.

I slipped in a batch today while our guests are investigating a business opportunity. They'll get to see the cut.  Between that and their showers this morning, we'll see what they think of handmade soap.   They were piqued by the bars in the bathroom last night.

My bout today was less than ideal. _speaks softly_: I managed to accelerate.  _more confidently now_: But I spun it so hopefully that will give a decent amount of movement.  We shall see.

Hey newbie, speaking of vacation dreams, how is yours going??  We want pics and stories!


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## Steve85569 (Dec 12, 2015)

Final try is in the oven now. It's a retry of the orange and green that accelerated on me. This time it went much better. Time will tell now.

Out to the shop to find that fishing wire for a cutter!


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## CaraBou (Dec 12, 2015)

Steve85569 said:


> Final try is in the oven now.



Famous last words.  

But then again, I think you've got an ace in the hole and are just seeing what might come next


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## gigisiguenza (Dec 12, 2015)

My stress is from moving and not being able to soap! LOL


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## Steve85569 (Dec 12, 2015)

CaraBou said:


> Famous last words.
> 
> But then again, I think you've got an ace in the hole and are just seeing what might come next



Read me like a book. Just seeing if I can get a repeat performance. Patience part right now.:???:


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## newbie (Dec 12, 2015)

Posted pics on Facebook and even talked to you in the posts, Cara!! It was so reminiscent of Alaska that I thought of you very often. You must not be on FB much. I have to get my real camera pics dowloaded from my camera and then I'll post a few.


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## CaraBou (Dec 12, 2015)

I saw it this afternoon, newbie! Glad you had a great time.  I hope to see Iceland myself one of these days, it does look beautiful.  But now you can soap again!


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## TheDragonGirl (Dec 12, 2015)

First try is in the oven now! I hope I didnt pour them so fluid they just mixed together, I couldnt tell just from the ungelled colours


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## newbie (Dec 13, 2015)

Low water tends to keep itself very distinct and sharply defined from other colors, or at least that's been my experience. If it was very thin and you swirled the pants off it, no guarantee but if you had some restraint, the low water can be very sharp and crisp.


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## houseofwool (Dec 13, 2015)

Is it too late to sign up?


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## Saponista (Dec 13, 2015)

I'm pretty sure sign up is still open.


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## houseofwool (Dec 13, 2015)

First try is in the oven.


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## houseofwool (Dec 13, 2015)

Okay, this is weird because it looks like it is gelling from the outside in.


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## Steve85569 (Dec 13, 2015)

houseofwool said:


> Okay, this is weird because it looks like it is gelling from the outside in.



And it's making halos around the different water contents too!


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## houseofwool (Dec 13, 2015)

I can't wait to see how it turns out!

These will be guest sized soaps, so it may be hard to see the pattern. I will definitely do this again.


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## newbie (Dec 13, 2015)

1. Lenarenee - pretending like I don't know what I've gotten myself into now!
2. Saponista - So many ideas, so little time to soap this month!
3. TheDragonGirl - this looks so cool and I wanted to try it anyhow
4. Dixiedragon
5. Songwind - Sounds fun, I'm in.
6. Obsidian- like I need more soap
7. Sonya-m - ooh I love a technical challenge!!
8. BlackDog - this challenge is totally out of my league!
9. dibbles - I see flops in my future!
10. doriettefarm - I'm game but frantically searching for FOs that behave in low water!
11. Judiraz- I've been wanting to do this with color...lots of ideas.
12. CaraBou - You know I'll do it anyway; might as well commit myself now so I can't back out from showing
13. Mrs Spaceship - is terrified.
14. DeeAnna. I don't have time for this -- it's my super crazy incredibly busy season at work -- but I'm gonna make time.
15. Commoncenz - Why, oh WHY do I do this to myself?
16. KristaY - I hope I have time in the Christmas craziness!
17. mazimazi - my first SMF challenge, yaaay!
18. Rowan - terrified and excited at the same time!
19. QueenBeeSoap - Count me in!
20. TeresaT - I have no idea what's going on, but my awesome math skills will save me!
21. Steve85569 - I think I got it this time. I'm still in trouble though!
22. kumudini - let the lye hunt begin! 
23. Cactuslily - I've been wanting to try this since reading Auntie Claras post.
24. Houseofwool- made hers before she even officially signed up! She gets some sort of prize for her enthusiasm.


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## Judiraz (Dec 13, 2015)

I am so frustrated. This is my latest attempt. At the last minute I decided I may get better gelling on the heating pad if I used a silicon mold instead of my wood mold. I didn't adjust for the size difference and I ended up with wide bars that are only about 1.5 inched tall!! And I love the colors in this one! Also couldn't cut a straight line...


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## houseofwool (Dec 13, 2015)

Ha Newbie!  I needed to makes couple of batches for my mom's business (she gives a bar with each order). Normally she wants lavender but I'm tired of making lavender. Soooo tired of it. 

I'm curious how low water will work with a lavender blend. I can't wait to try it out.


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## gigisiguenza (Dec 13, 2015)

newbie said:


> Low water tends to keep itself very distinct and sharply defined from other colors, or at least that's been my experience. If it was very thin and you swirled the pants off it, no guarantee but if you had some restraint, the low water can be very sharp and crisp.



Hmmmm. That's good to know for future reference


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## DeeAnna (Dec 13, 2015)

Got two batches done tonight -- YAY!!!! I kept it simple with just an in-the-pot swirl using just one pigment colorant per batch -- I want to see what the high/low water does to the single colorant. 

I made up each batch as a low water recipe with all the colorant and fragrance added to the batch. When I got to emulsion, I split the batter into two equal parts and did my best to bring one (my "low water" portion) to a light trace. When I got the "low water" portion to that point, I added the appropriate extra water to the other portion to turn it into the "high water" batter, and mixed that portion to trace. This method seemed to work okay for me.

My only real experiment with all of this is that I used the high water portion as the "base" and the low water portion as the "swirl" for one batch and vice versa for the other. 

Auntie Clara CPOPs for about 1 1/2 hours at 140 F, so that's what I'm doing to mine too. In the oven as I type this. 

Tried out some new FOs -- Black raspberry vanilla and Green tea, both from Natures Garden. From what folks have said here on SMF and what I learned on the NG website, both are touted as non accelerating and non discoloring. I agree with the non accelerating for the most part. Time will tell about the non discoloring. 

The BRV was really super well behaved. The GT gave me a bit of a shock at first because the batter looked like it riced just a teeny tiny bit when I added the FO, but then the batter smoothed out and took over 15 minutes to (never) come to trace. It may have been the temp drop with my high-lard recipe that gave the illusion of ricing rather than real thing.

Very curious to see how the two batches turned out and which version looks the most interesting.


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## BlackDog (Dec 13, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> When I got to emulsion, I split the batter into two equal parts and did my best to bring one (my "low water" portion) to a light trace. When I got the "low water" portion to that point, I added the appropriate extra water to the other portion to turn it into the "high water" batter, and mixed that portion to trace. This method seemed to work okay for me.



Omg this is so much easier than the way I did it, making two separate batches of lye water. Kicking myself for not thinking of it. Will definitely give it a try on attempt #2!


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## dibbles (Dec 13, 2015)

houseofwool said:


> Okay, this is weird because it looks like it is gelling from the outside in.



That's what my first batch did. It was a 1 lb. test batch with no color or fragrance.


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## dibbles (Dec 13, 2015)

Judiraz said:


> I am so frustrated. This is my latest attempt. At the last minute I decided I may get better gelling on the heating pad if I used a silicon mold instead of my wood mold. I didn't adjust for the size difference and I ended up with wide bars that are only about 1.5 inched tall!! And I love the colors in this one! Also couldn't cut a straight line...



I can't cut a straight line - ever. But regardless of the bar size, your colors are pretty, and nice work on the lace top.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 13, 2015)

Newbie warned that this method might backfire, so try it with caution. But I have to say mine went okay. There's some juggling involved because the high water portion traces faster than the low water portion, but that's going to be true no matter what method you use.

ETA: I put a thermocouple in one of the loaves just for geeky fun.  The oven temp is 145 F (63 C) -- the lowest my oven can be set to. The center of the loaf has risen to about 175 F (80 C) in about an hour in the oven and the soap is definitely in full gel. The other loaf went into the oven at the same time, but is still not in gel yet. It got a slower start, however, so I expect it will catch up.


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## dibbles (Dec 13, 2015)

Made my 3rd attempt today. I used a single color for both the high and low water parts, but also used a small amount of white in the low water. I weighed my hard oils last night. but decided it was too late to start. I changed my mind on the mold, so I had extra batter that I put in my 1 lb. silicone mold, put both in the oven. Took the little mold out when the high water portion was in gel and covered with a towel. Peeking at it later, part of my top has a little pinkish-tan color. I only used purple and a small amount of white (both micas). Interesting. I also got my first alien brain in one little spot. The bigger mold is still warm, and it has been out of the oven for 6 hours! No end to the surprises with this challenge. I'll be posting pictures when I see what I've got to enter. I might not be able to get another try at this.

I will say, I love how long this low water batter stays fluid. I got some wrapping done while I was waiting to be able to start my high water part.

And also, welcome back Newbie! I hope you had a great trip.


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## gigisiguenza (Dec 13, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> I made up each batch as a low water recipe with all the colorant and fragrance added to the batch. When I got to emulsion, I split the batter into two equal parts and did my best to bring one (my "low water" portion) to a light trace. When I got the "low water" portion to that point, I added the appropriate extra water to the other portion to turn it into the "high water" batter, and mixed that portion to trace. This method seemed to work okay for me.



I wouldn't have thought to do it that way. Definitely the method I will use when I am finally able to try this.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 13, 2015)

I took the soap out of the oven to examine it more closely and take pictures. The first loaf that reached a gelled appearance is still above 170 F (77 C) and still looks on a quick check like it is in full gel. BUT on a closer look, the swirls of soap within the loaf are distinctly different. The lighter appearing swirls are firmer to the touch and drier and opaque looking, and the darker appearing swirls are translucent looking and are soft and slightly sticky to the touch.

What that's telling me (and I went back to Kevin Dunn's Chapter 22 in Scientific Soapmaking to confirm) that the lower water portion (the lighter soap) is not in gel and the higher water portion is -- even though the whole thing is at the same temperature. The saponification reaction of both soaps is what is creating this maximum temperature -- the oven heating at 145 F (63 C) is only ensuring the soap stays warm enough so the high water soap gets hot enough to gel. 

I suspect if I were to CPOP the soap at a temperature high enough to ensure the low water soap also went into gel, I would not see as much distinction between the two types of soaps, both during saponification and afterwards. 

This is what I was trying to show in the diagram in my Post 136. It's neat when my theorizing is proved out in real life.  Cool!


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## commoncenz (Dec 13, 2015)

I'm dying over here ... I haven't been able to make a batch of soap in almost two weeks. Uncle has been sick, son has started his Senior year of wrestling, etc. etc. Now, to top it all off, my friend gave a local salon and spa owner some samples of my soap, bath bombs and lip balm that I had given her (Not to give to anyone else, that was a surprise) ... and the owner wants to meet with me about putting my stuff in her Salon. I mean it's a good thing ... but still kinda stressful because I'm looking at my 3 molds and saying "not enough". Anyway, with uncle still sick, I regretfully will have to withdraw from this month's challenge. My apologies.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 13, 2015)

I will miss seeing the amazing soap you would make for this challenge, Patrick! Can I encourage you to just take a rain check and do the challenge soap some other time? I'd love to see what you come up with.

I hope Uncle feels better soon. It sounds like a perfect storm of stuff going on in your life right now!


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## CaraBou (Dec 14, 2015)

Hey look - high water gels before low water! Low water was darker before gelling, lighter after.


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## Steve85569 (Dec 14, 2015)

CaraBou said:


> Hey look - high water gels before low water! Low water was darker before gelling, lighter after.


Nice looking! It's gonna have halos around the low water from the look of it. I love the effect.

This stuff takes forever to cool off!!! I pulled my last attempt out of the oven at 8:00 last night (160 F) and had to wait until 11:00 this morning to release the mold. This method will eventually teach me patience though. DW really likes the results too!

Guess I'm not in trouble after all!


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## dibbles (Dec 14, 2015)

commoncenz said:


> I'm dying over here ... I haven't been able to make a batch of soap in almost two weeks. Uncle has been sick, son has started his Senior year of wrestling, etc. etc. Now, to top it all off, my friend gave a local salon and spa owner some samples of my soap, bath bombs and lip balm that I had given her (Not to give to anyone else, that was a surprise) ... and the owner wants to meet with me about putting my stuff in her Salon. I mean it's a good thing ... but still kinda stressful because I'm looking at my 3 molds and saying "not enough". Anyway, with uncle still sick, I regretfully will have to withdraw from this month's challenge. My apologies.



Sorry things aren't going well right for you right now. At least you have a little silver lining with a possible client, congratulations on that. Hope your life settles down soon, and you can soap to relieve some stress.


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## dibbles (Dec 14, 2015)

Pictures!! The first is my ghost swirl test batch. The second is a picture of the color morph in the extra batter poured from what will probably be my entry soap. This color change happened in the large mold as well, but wasn't evident until cut.


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## dibbles (Dec 14, 2015)

More pictures! This was my second attempt (patchouli/orange/litsea EO), Clyde Slide pour. I like the soap, but I had equal amounts of orange high and low water, and equal amounts of brown high and low water. I don't know where the the bright orange went! I wasn't sure this would look like enough low water batter was used - the uncolored portion was high water. The first three pictures are vertical cuts, the last is horizontal.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 14, 2015)

I cut the two batches I made yesterday. They both turned out to be more of a "ghost swirl" than anything -- more like Dibbles first picture. Nice soap, interesting "tone on tone" patterns, but nothing overly striking. <sigh>


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## CaraBou (Dec 15, 2015)

Steve85569 said:


> Nice looking! It's gonna have halos around the low water from the look of it. I love the effect.



No great halos.  I was so psyched when I saw the difference in gelling. That was about an hour after the pour.  I pulled it out of the oven / heated water bath shortly afterward so that the low water parts didn't gel too (already learned that the hard way).  It must have been too soon to heat up the interface enough to get nice halos. :cry:  



Steve85569 said:


> This stuff takes forever to cool off!!! I pulled my last attempt out of the oven at 8:00 last night (160 F) and had to wait until 11:00 this morning to release the mold.


Get this: I unmolded and cut that batch within 2.5 hours of pulling out of the oven.  It was plenty firm, and it zapped a little but nothing too serious.  I was shocked at how quickly it firmed up but both my notes and my timestamped pics confirm it. The loaf cut really cleanly and didn't nick up anywhere from handling too early.  I'm at a loss to explain it as I didn't use anything to harden or hasten it (no salt, sodium lactate, high CO, etc).  But I'll take a quick cut any day, any way!

My curiosity is not satisfied. I'm still not really understanding it, and am still looking for a more dramatic effect.  Way to go newbie, look what you started!


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## crispysoap (Dec 15, 2015)

Thought I'd give this a go and see what happens


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## Saponista (Dec 17, 2015)

I tried an attempt with carrot purée, I did a Clyde slide but I think my batter was a bit too thin and you can't really see any discernible colour differences. Back to the drawing board!


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## Judiraz (Dec 17, 2015)

I posted my entry on the other thread but I wanted to post my other batch. I like the halos in this one and the one bar looks like a flamingo taking flight to me! I did this one in a slab mold. Wish I could learn to cut a slab straight. Every cube was crooked!


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## snappyllama (Dec 17, 2015)

Judiraz, those colors on your submitted bars are swoon-worthy!

ETA: I like the halo on your pastel ones too!


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## Judiraz (Dec 17, 2015)

Thanks, Snappy. I was really happy with my entry colors. All Nurture micas. I used teal, sky blue, shamrock shimmer, and Snow White.  The gel really helped the color a lot.


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## KristaY (Dec 18, 2015)

The entries look great so far! I'm really bummed I haven't had time to give this a go yet. So many life and holiday commitments keep getting in my way, lol. I'm going to try to get a batch done this weekend as that's all the time I'll have for it. I'm looking forward to seeing all the entries yet to come!


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## Saponista (Dec 18, 2015)

This is my second attempt I think it looks like alien brains and there is too much colour going on to see the texture difference between high and low water. The low water is the pale pink dropped into a Itp swirl of the other colours. I hope I get a chance to make something I can actually enter! Looking at it closer, I think it didn't gel. I left it wrapped in a towel as I don't have an oven I can put it in and then left it overnight. My soap usually always gels that way, but it is really cold weather at the moment.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 18, 2015)

I think I see what you mean, Saponista, that your soap might not have gelled. The tan on the top half looks to be a fairly consistent shade of tan and the orange (at least on my monitor) on the lower half looks evenly orange. 

Do you have a heating pad that you could use for a little extra heat? I got good results by putting my soap in the oven at Auntie Clara's 140 F (60 C) rather than the 170 F I have used in the past. I would think a heating pad on medium or high for an hour or two might do the trick.

Even in my monotone ghost-swirl attempt, I can see slight but definite color and texture differences between the high and low water portions, even though the amount of colorant was constant throughout. 

I hope I can get another trial or two done this weekend using this technique!


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## Saponista (Dec 18, 2015)

I just had another attempt and I soaped much hotter this time to try and ensure that my soap would gel. I have kept an eye on it all afternoon and it definitely gelled this time so hopefully I will have something to enter! I think I definitely need to purchase a heat mat though deeanna. I am going to add it to the list of things to look for in the January sales.


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## crispysoap (Dec 18, 2015)

Do you have a hot water cupboard that you could pop the soap into? I find that that does the trick as well.


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## BlackDog (Dec 19, 2015)

Attempt #2 is in the oven! Used BB BlackBerry Sage and it behaved like a dream. Thanks LP for the suggestion. remains to be seen if it will look like anything special! And now I know not to wait too long to cut lol


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## DeeAnna (Dec 20, 2015)

Just put my entry into the official challenge thread, and thought I'd share my other tries here. I didn't get much color variation with these two tries -- kind of a tone-on-tone thing. Even so, I think it's neat how the cut surface of the soap undulates where the soap goes from high water to low and also how the slight color variations draw the eye and look a bit like stone. 

The green soap is colored with green chromium oxide and scented with NG Green Tea. I think the two turned out to be a good match. The gray soap was supposed to be a muted lavender-y color (ultramarine violet with a drop of black oxide). I scented this one with NG Blackberry Vanilla and it has a pleasant berry/grape type of aroma. Not sure where the violet went. :mrgreen:


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## CaraBou (Dec 21, 2015)

I was all excited today because I had a design in mind and time to soap.  But wouldn't you know, I missed a step! I still have hopes for it, but it took FOREVER to get that vision and then somehow I blew it.  It's out of the mold now, cooling down. If I don't like it I might try one more because I have MB'd oils on hand. We'll see how the night goes. We start a road trip tomorrow so it's all or nothing tonight. 

I love how fast this low water sets up and can be cut.  I'd been down to 12 or so hours before this but now I'm super spoiled and not sure I'll ever go back.


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## newbie (Dec 21, 2015)

I hope it turns out for you! The only big drawback I see to low water is the limitation of FO's that you can use with it.oTherwise, I love how crisp the colors are and the open time and how it gets hard enough to unmold more quickly and how Im more likely to get a smooth surface on my cut that with higher water. If only there were no such thing as accelerating FOs!


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## DeeAnna (Dec 21, 2015)

The two soaps pictured in my post above are a high lard recipe (80% lard, 15% CO, 5% castor), but I was running low on lard for my third attempt, so I subbed some tallow for the lard (62% lard, 18% tallow, 15% CO, 5% castor). I'm new to using tallow, so I'm not yet calibrated to how it soaps differently than lard. 

The 80% lard recipe is firm, waxy, and dry at 12-18 hours after molding. It cuts easily like a firm cheddar cheese. The lard-tallow loaf was so hard and brittle it shattered when I tried to cut it -- what a surprise! No, it wasn't lye heavy -- I checked that immediately -- just brittle from the higher stearic acid in the tallow. I heated it up at 170 F for about an hour, replaced my cutter wire, and tried it again. It cut okay when warm. I was expecting poor lather from the extra stearic, but it lathers easily and nicely.

Given this experience, I'm not quite sure a high lye concentration is a good choice for the lard-tallow recipe. I'm curious if a bit more water (lower lye concentration) would help this soap be less brittle and cut a little easier, so I think I'll try it again at my usual 31-33% lye concentration. For the 80% lard recipe, the low water (higher lye concentration) approach works great. I like it too.


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## CaraBou (Dec 22, 2015)

That's interesting D. When did you first try cutting your lard- tallow combo? l wonder how it'd do within a few hours of gelling.    I've cut 3 batches now within 4 to 6 hours after pouring in the mold, that's how quick they've hardened.  I've used the oven-moderated hot water bath method, which has typically led to gel (at least of the high parts) within a couple hours.  After seeing gel, I've let them sit a bit (inside or out of heat) just to make sure I'm not premature, then purposefully cooled them by setting outside for an hour or so. Not a slow cool like I usually do, or like you stated that you did for your entry soap. After that they've still been a little soft and mildly zappy, but plenty firm to unmold and cut without doing damage. That's true even of the batch I had that got wet on the top from sloshing water. I normally don't cut this quick, but it does seem ripe and I must say it is wonderful for curing my insatiable appetite to see what's inside 

I'm not saying this is the best method for getting great contrast, but I do get an effect, and what can I say, patience is not my strength.

I was hoping for one more try but I did not pull it off tonight.  I like my last two batches but can't help thinking about the potential, including wondering what might have happened if I'd executed the last pour correctly. I'll be gone the next two days, back on Xmas eve for a quiet night with just DH.  It is not likely I can pull one off then, but with the short turnaround time described above, I'll never say never til it's too late.  I don't have pics yet to enter what I have now; hoping to do that tomorrow before we leave, if I wake early enough.


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## lionprincess00 (Dec 22, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> The two soaps pictured in my post above are a high lard recipe (80% lard, 15% CO, 5% castor), but I was running low on lard for my third attempt, so I subbed some tallow for the lard (62% lard, 18% tallow, 15% CO, 5% castor). I'm new to using tallow, so I'm not yet calibrated to how it soaps differently than lard.
> 
> The 80% lard recipe is firm, waxy, and dry at 12-18 hours after molding. It cuts easily like a firm cheddar cheese. The lard-tallow loaf was so hard and brittle it shattered when I tried to cut it -- what a surprise! No, it wasn't lye heavy -- I checked that immediately -- just brittle from the higher stearic acid in the tallow. I heated it up at 170 F for about an hour, replaced my cutter wire, and tried it again. It cut okay when warm. I was expecting poor lather from the extra stearic, but it lathers easily and nicely.
> 
> Given this experience, I'm not quite sure a high lye concentration is a good choice for the lard-tallow recipe. I'm curious if a bit more water (lower lye concentration) would help this soap be less brittle and cut a little easier, so I think I'll try it again at my usual 31-33% lye concentration. For the 80% lard recipe, the low water (higher lye concentration) approach works great. I like it too.



My soaps shatter through the middle if i soap and wait until the next day to cut with low water.  I have to soap 2-4 pm at the latest, cpop enough to speed saponification,  and cut before 10pm, even 7-830 pm......

I use 40% tallow usually lol. Thx for the explanation!  Replacing with lard, im not sure but i dont think ive had an issue as badly as with tallow. I also blend 25% tallow 15% lard and will have to check notes to see which shattered at late cutting and which didnt.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 22, 2015)

"...When did you first try cutting your lard- tallow combo? l wonder how it'd do within a few hours of gelling...."

CaraBou -- I cut about 10 hours after I put it in the mold. I was so eager to see what this soap looked like inside that I cut it a bit sooner than I normally would. Probably a good thing I did, because 10 hours was actually too late, not too early! 

I normally cut my soaps about 12-18 hours after molding, unless for some reason the soaps don't gel. In that case I have to be verrrrrryyyyy patient and give them another day or two to firm up. (Or put them into the oven at 140-170 F (60-75 C) for an hour or two and that solves the problem!) 

"...l wonder how it'd do within a few hours of gelling. I've cut 3 batches now within 4 to 6 hours after pouring in the mold, that's how quick they've hardened. ... I normally don't cut this quick, but it does seem ripe and I must say it is wonderful for curing my insatiable appetite to see what's inside..."

You sound like me! I obviously need to re-calibrate my timing with this type of recipe. And start soaping earlier in the day. :mrgreen:

***

LionPrincess -- I have to say the difference between the 80% lard recipe and the lard-tallow recipe was marked. Since they were all soaps for the December challenge, I was deliberately using a consistent method for these soaps, so IMO it's the added tallow that made the difference. 

I do wonder if I had used a recipe with a higher % of liquid fat (olive, HO sunflower, avocado, etc.) and thus more oleic acid, this might have mellowed out the brittleness of the tallow. Not sure about that -- just a guess.


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## lionprincess00 (Dec 22, 2015)

The latest batch that split the first cut 3 soaps was in a ts silicone mold that I CPOPed.  It then sat covered in towels overnight.  Edit: it only partially gelled. the next morning bright and early and they just split, angled down through the middle horizontally.  I put it back in the oven to warm and it helped it stay intact, though the edges showed stress fractures. It was a 50% lard now that I look at it. I thought maybe sodium citrate was adding to the issue. 

Another that split was a 1 pound silicone mold with 30% lard 15% shea, and again sodium citrate, 2%. Cut the next day. Side note both had pko flakes 5.98% for the first and 8.06% this second. I honestly am not sure if i CPOPed this second, but it looks ungelled. 

The earlier one that split a bar was the small mold again. 25% tallow, 35% lard, no pko, sodium citrate 2%, and again cut next day i believe. It too has stress fractures along with the split . It most likely sat on a heat pad yet didnt gel. 

All were 40% lye.

I recently cleaned house, but began having struggles with the bottoms cracking and splitting with earlier batches which escalated to the centers. If i cut within hours theres no problem. Wait overnight and its roulette.


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## Judiraz (Dec 22, 2015)

I use 35 to 40% lard, but other than 15% coconut, that's my only hard oil. I use OO, rice bran, and castor. I cut these at < 12 hours w/ 33% lye concentration. When I used high & low water for this challenge and put the soap on a heating pad I stayed in gel for that long! I didn't cut these for 15+ hours and they were solid! but still warm. I'm thinking it's probably the 25% OO.


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## CaraBou (Dec 22, 2015)

Well now we know another reason not to wait so long to cut!  That works for me 

I posted yesterday's soap.  I'm not totally happy with the pics but it's the best I could do in the time I had this morning.  It's time to hit the road!


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## lionprincess00 (Dec 22, 2015)

Is there a cutoff time for entries the 24th?


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## Saponista (Dec 22, 2015)

lionprincess00 said:


> Is there a cutoff time for entries the 24th?


 
I'm pretty sure it says midnight on the entry thread


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## lionprincess00 (Dec 22, 2015)

Saponista said:


> I'm pretty sure it says midnight on the entry thread



I thought I had read that, but when i went back i must've missed it. Thank you!


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## Judiraz (Dec 22, 2015)

CaraBou-- loved your bear with the crystal ball. The colors are nice.

Saponista- I've read carrot seed oil is wonderful for "mature" skin. I used some in lotion, thinking it would be great for my skin, but I just couldn't get past the scent. Maybe it makes skin look better because people won't get too close  hopefully your blend will cure to something good. Your soap looks great.


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## dibbles (Dec 22, 2015)

I've gotten somewhat used to carrot seed oil scent. A friend makes a facial serum and uses some in that, blended with other EOs and oils. A couple of drops is all that is needed, so the smell isn't noticeable once absorbed (at least I don't think it is). Maybe try doing something like that rather than a lotion. I don't think I'd use it in a leave on product for scent. It really is wonderful for skin (and my skin is definitely mature lol).


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## DeeAnna (Dec 22, 2015)

Ooh, some very pretty and intriguing soaps are lining up in the challenge ring!


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## BlackDog (Dec 22, 2015)

I'm going to give it one final go tomorrow. Ended up pretty happy with soap #2 but I'll hold off posting to see if I like #3 better.  This was a challenge in the truest sense!  Tough stuff!


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## KristaY (Dec 22, 2015)

Judiraz said:


> CaraBou-- loved your bear with the crystal ball. The colors are nice.
> 
> Saponista- I've read carrot seed oil is wonderful for "mature" skin. I used some in lotion, thinking it would be great for my skin, but I just couldn't get past the scent. Maybe it makes skin look better because people won't get too close  hopefully your blend will cure to something good. Your soap looks great.



Judiraz, I agree with you 100% on the carrot seed oil scent. It's HORRIBLE! I add it to a "mature skin" face cream I make for my mom, sisters and me and nothing I add can mask it. The ONLY saving grace is how quickly the scent fades once it's on the skin. But you could be right....people aren't getting close enough when I use it, hehehe.....:shifty:


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## DeeAnna (Dec 22, 2015)

A friend told the story about a lady who was a lovely person in almost every way ... except she used an expensive face cream that had carrot oil in it. The lady knew about the scent, but was of the opinion that its anti-aging benefits outweighed the smell. From what my friend had to say, the lingering smell affected my friend's ability to work closely with this lady in an office environment.


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## Misschief (Dec 23, 2015)

I have a face cream recipe I use that has carrot seed e.o. and fennel seed e.o. The scent of the fennel masks the smell (stench) of the carrot seed quite nicely. Both are strong scents but the fennel is more overpowering than the carrot seed in this particular recipe.


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## Saponista (Dec 23, 2015)

Lol, I don't think the carrot seed will be a keeper then if so many people hate the smell so much. It's curing in our spare bedroom and I went in there yesterday and thought it smelled bad. Probably the carrot seed! My mom and dad are down for Christmas this evening staying in that room so I guess I better try and air it out!


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## MrsSpaceship (Dec 23, 2015)

It's been so nice catching up on things, I haven't had time to even think about soap (other than to wash my hands with it) for weeks.  I should have known better than to sign up for anything in December.  I won't have an entry for this challenge, but it has been so much fun seeing everyone else making theirs. I'll definitely have to try this technique soon.


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## Saponista (Dec 23, 2015)

Another beautiful entry on the thread. I really do love this technique, the colour effects that you can achieve are stunning.


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## newbie (Dec 23, 2015)

The outlining you got on your purple is really beautiful, Blackdog.


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## lenarenee (Dec 24, 2015)

Looks like soaping just wasn't in the cards for me this month so I won't be entering a soap for this challenge. I've learned so much has from reading all of your trials and successes though, so I'll still try this technique....in 2016!!


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## newbie (Dec 25, 2015)

Not too many entries this month but we will carry on no matter how many there are!

You have three votes. Please vote if you signed up, whether you submitted an entry or not. You may still partake! If you did not sign up, please do not vote.

Voting will close on at midnight on the 30th.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/QZBPSLK


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## Cactuslily (Dec 25, 2015)

I misread the final date, and with the craziness of this time of year, time got away from me. I tried this technique at around midnight last night. Cut this morning. Must have done something wrong. Despite minimal 3 D effect, overall not much happened, although using the 1.4:1 ware to lye ratio did in fact give a lot of time. Now to find EO's or FO's that I know play well...always an issue. We should post what does not accelerate trace on a list. Just a thought. Happy holidays to all! Thank you for all your help and support. The soaps listed for this month are all so lovely!


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## Rowan (Dec 25, 2015)

Congratulations to everyone who entered the challenge this month. I thoroughly enjoyed reading your journeys. Unfortunately we had a flood through our kitchen and bathroom and had to repair the damage, so ran out of time to enter!  I can't wait to give it a go next year!


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## CaraBou (Dec 25, 2015)

Aw Rowan, that sucks!  Hope you recuperated nicely.

There weren't a lot but there were some great ones. Really cool to see what people could do with it.  I took me a few tries to get something that really showed the potential, but it was all fun.  I've been so busy, no time to post my 'flops.'  Things will slow down for me next week (no work, no parties, no shopping, no traveling, no big meal cooking!) so maybe I'll get pics up then.  It's too bad the next challenge won't start til after the 1st, it would be nice to take advantage of the time off.  Oh well, that's part of the challenge I guess!


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## Saponista (Dec 26, 2015)

I guess there are others that might feel the same carabou, so I will give out the topic for the challenge early. It's really simple, black and white soap. Create any design you like using any technique, but you can only use those two colours in your design. No shades of grey either (I won't hold it against you if your black turns out a little bit grey though as I know it can be hard to get a true black sometimes!)


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## Judiraz (Dec 26, 2015)

What does everyone use for black?

I find micas morph to a dark grey on me and black oxide is a mess to work with. I've never used activated charcoal. What are the opinions on that?


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## Misschief (Dec 26, 2015)

Judiraz said:


> What does everyone use for black?
> 
> I find micas morph to a dark grey on me and black oxide is a mess to work with. I've never used activated charcoal. What are the opinions on that?



I used activated charcoal for mine


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## Saponista (Dec 26, 2015)

I use activated charcoal too, however it's also very messy. I tend to mix it with oil beforehand to avoid getting black mess everywhere. I just ordered a new tin of it and it came with free latex gloves to help you handle it!


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## Saponista (Dec 26, 2015)

I don't want to hijack newbies challenge thread though, so I feel a bit bad, maybe I shouldn't have told everyone what the next challenge was?


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## lionprincess00 (Dec 26, 2015)

I just wanted to pop in and say everyone's entries are fantastic! I managed one attempt Wednesday and it was a bust. December was very busy not just with holidays but a kids birthday this week, so i plum ran out of time for attempts. Great job to everyone who participated!!!


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## BlackDog (Dec 26, 2015)

In the interest of keeping the thread on topic but also making comments about the upcoming challenge, I'll post one of my "flops" from the December challenge. I actually tried a black/white high/low water bar. 

From the top down,  the layers go:
HW white
LW black
HW black
LW white

I didn't get any special effect from the high-low, so I didn't use it as my entry soap.

BUT, the interesting thing I found was that I used the same amount of colorant for both whites and both blacks, and I got the obviously truer white with the high water portion, and a slightly truer black with the low water portion. (The difference in blacks is hard to see in the pic, but it's there.)

Also, the high water black ashed something awful and I got zero ash with the low water. 

Something to keep in mind as we move into the next challenge!


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## Saponista (Dec 26, 2015)

Do you know if it gelled blackdog? I had very little effect from my attempt that didn't gel.


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## BlackDog (Dec 26, 2015)

Saponista said:


> Do you know if it gelled blackdog? I had very little effect from my attempt that didn't gel.



It was really hard to tell! It looks like there's a texture difference between the shades of the same color so I think it did. My oven doesn't go down to 140 so I just turn it off to put the soap in and I never want to open it during CPOP and lose heat.


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## newbie (Dec 26, 2015)

Hijack away, Saponista! I think it's fine to say what next month's challenge is since many people take some time off at the end of the year and will have more time to soap, as long as no one gets wound up about an entry made before the official open of the challenge. I would mention that all entries have to have been made specifically for the challenge though. No sneaking in an old but awesome B&W soap.

I too am wondering if your soap gelled, Blackdog. When I use black in high and low water, the black definitively had shading. Because I end up soaping so cool with this technique, I've found my soaps need more of a heat boost than usual to get them to gel so your normal method may not have kicked it into gel, perhaps.


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## newbie (Dec 26, 2015)

Reposting, for easy access and in case someone doesn't go back a page or two.


Not too many entries this month but we will carry on no matter how many there are!

You have three votes. Please vote if you signed up, whether you submitted an entry or not. You may still partake! If you did not sign up, please do not vote.

Voting will close on at midnight on the 30th.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/QZBPSLK


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## CaraBou (Dec 26, 2015)

Saponista, thanks for the early notice! Maybe you should start a post so that we're not the only ones who know?  I have a bunch to say about B&W soaps since I _adore _them, but I'll hold off til we have a space. BlackDog, you should repost your observations on true colors and ash -- those are great tips for people coming in to the new challenge.

I took DH to the airport today.  He'll be gone a week now so in addition to having free time, I can leave an utter mess in my kitchen if I want.  Not sure I can handle the chaos myself but I just might try. It's time for a soaping marathon!


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## KristaY (Dec 26, 2015)

I just voted and, as always, it was really tough! There was something unique and beautiful about each one. Congrats to all the people that were able to make soap and get it entered this month (I'm NOT one of them, lol). You guys really did great work!


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## CaraBou (Dec 26, 2015)

As promised, I'm posting some of "the unchosen."  The Red Cedar bars here were cut from the same batch in post #178 above that showed differential gelling in the mold.  While the bars do show some high/low water contrast, it was a bit underwhelming so I opted for another round.  But man it smells good (a blend of Cedarwood EO/Redwood Cedar FO/Patch EO).  I will give most of it to a silviculturist that I work with. He's showed me some really big trees here so this is a way of saying thanks.

More to come, I've got to place my WSP order (sale starts in 11 minutes)!


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## CaraBou (Dec 27, 2015)

Ok now that that urgent matter is over, back to our regular scheduled program.  Here's the next to last batch I made (which apparently totaled 4 not 3 like I alluded to earlier). I liked it a lot, but was quite hooked on the process by then, and continued to chase the dragon without taking tally.  I have a feeling things will only get worse now that I ordered a T&S and another 1 pounder during the WSP sale. 

The second pic is of a backlit bar.  It really shows off the difference in translucence produced by this method. Pretty nifty!


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## newbie (Dec 27, 2015)

That backlit picture is so cool!


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## TheDragonGirl (Dec 27, 2015)

That back lit soap is extremely eye catching, but I like the cedar bars too!


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## newbie (Dec 27, 2015)

Reposting, for easy access and in case someone doesn't go back a page or two.


Not too many entries this month but we will carry on no matter how many there are!

You have three votes. Please vote if you signed up, whether you submitted an entry or not. You may still partake! If you did not sign up, please do not vote.

Voting will close on at midnight on the 30th.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/QZBPSLK


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## Saponista (Dec 27, 2015)

The backlit soap is so beautiful! It reminds me of seaglass. I'd love to try dropping different blobs in to make a multicoloured seaglass style soap. 

I was going to make a second black and white soap for my video before posting the Jan challenge thread as I wasn't happy with how neat it turned out, but if everyone will forgive my shoddy soaping then I can put it up after I get chance to edit tomorrow? Then everyone can have this week to soap.


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## Misschief (Dec 27, 2015)

Obviously not for the challenge but I did try this technique yesterday.... and got distracted. The soap looks ok at best but I mixed up my batches. The high water lye mix went into the low water oils and vice versa. Normally that might not be an issue if the batches were equal sizes. However, one was 600 grams, the other was 300 grams. 

Now, the 600 gram part has they lye for the 300 grams (too little... that part is oily) and the 300 grams has the lye for the 600 grams... in other words, lye heavy. 

I wasn't very happy with my swirl either. It wasn't very "swirly".



hilow_oops by Ev Skae, on Flickr


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## newbie (Dec 27, 2015)

What a shame! That looks like it would have been a great pattern for this technique. Thankfully it's all neutral (all uncolored, perhaps?) which means rebatching will give you a nice bar, as opposed to muck. 

I think you should post your video early, Saponista, so people can soap this week if they want. We promise we won't judge you because your soap is "shoddy" which probably means it's perfectly fine but not what you wanted. 

*We still need 7 people's votes. *Once we get everyone's votes, I will release results, even if it's early, so we can make way for January's Challange and not be distracted. Let's go people! Chop, chop!!!


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## CaraBou (Dec 27, 2015)

Yes, definitely post the video!  I'm with newbie here, that the shoddy will only be shoddy to you.  Besides, there's no shame in shoddy soaping; only lessons!

Misschief, that is a nice soap.  Did you run it through a calc to see just how far off it is?   I'd be curious to see how it cures out but like newbie said, it's a great candidate for rebatch.

I'm thinking of starting a new thread for backlit soaps, where others can post too.  But dangit, I can't find my spotlight, which would illuminate a larger portion of the bars than what I showed previously.  Well it's bound to turn up somewhere, so maybe I'll just start with what I have.

BTW, my vote is in.  I couldn't wait a second longer than when I first saw the link!


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## Misschief (Dec 27, 2015)

CaraBou said:


> Misschief, that is a nice soap.  Did you run it through a calc to see just how far off it is?   I'd be curious to see how it cures out but like newbie said, it's a great candidate for rebatch.



I haven't run it through yet but..... correct me if I'm wrong on this.... my thinking is leaning towards simply rebatching it so that everything is uniform. The percentages of the oils for each batch is the same. The only difference between the two parts is the water to lye ratio. Rebatching would up the ratio in the parts that don't have enough and lower the ratio in the part that has too much. Both parts were superfatted at 5% (in my original plan).

Yes? No?

ETA: and, having checked SoapCalc, my thought seems to be correct. If I add up the total amount of lye used in the 600 and 300 g batches, then run through the same formula but for a 900 gram batch, and take the average between the two percentages of lye concentration used, the lye required is the same amount as the total amount used and will give me a lye concentration of 41%.

I will, however, need a larger crock pot.


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## Steve85569 (Dec 27, 2015)

Misschief said:


> ETA: and, having checked SoapCalc, my thought seems to be correct. If I add up the total amount of lye used in the 600 and 300 g batches, then run through the same formula but for a 900 gram batch, and take the average between the two percentages of lye concentration used, the lye required is the same amount as the total amount used and will give me a lye concentration of 41%.
> 
> I will, however, need a larger crock pot.



You may not need a larger crock pot if you are sure you have an even distribution. Just rebatch what fits.

But only if you are sure. :think:
Then again it's a good excuse to get a big crock pot on the after Christmas sale!


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## CaraBou (Dec 27, 2015)

Yes, I think you are right to rebatch.  I just had it in the back of my mind that a negative superfat can turn out okay with enough time and water, but your soap doesn't really fit the model I've seen that applied to.  Your soap is actually perfect for a rebatch because you won't need to add anything to balance it (except possibly a small amount of water), and it is completely uncolored.  It doesn't get any better than that!

If you decide not to crockpot you could try putting it all in a sealed plastic bag then putting that in a hot/boiling water bath til it melts as much as it can.  It's a pain to get it out but cleanup is minimal.  Also, you can remelt in the oven directly in stainless steel.  No matter what you try, good luck!  One thing about rebatch soaps, they lather great!


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## Misschief (Dec 27, 2015)

CaraBou said:


> Also, you can remelt in the oven directly in stainless steel.  No matter what you try, good luck!  One thing about rebatch soaps, they lather great!



Tell me more?


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## CaraBou (Dec 27, 2015)

Oh geez, it's been so long, I hope someone will tweak if needed.  But the basics are: With gloves on, grate it, put in a stainless steel pot, and stick in a 200 F oven (no more, maybe less).  Within a couple hours it should be pretty fluid.  It will still have unmelted parts, but if you can pour or plop it into a mold, go for it.  Work fast because it will cool quickly in ambient temperature and change on the top to a solid, dry consistency.  You probably don't need to add water since it's so fresh, but monitor it in the oven and stir in a skosh of hot water after an hour or so in the oven if it seems like it needs it. For the most part just let it do its thing because every time you stir, it solidifies on your spoon, the sides of the pot and and possibly the top.  

Hope that helps; good luck, and don't worry, you'll see your soap again on the other side.


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## Misschief (Dec 28, 2015)

Thanks so much, CaraBou! I just did two rebatches this past week, one with the double ziplock bag method, the other with my appetizer-sized crockpot. I didn't like the bag method even though getting it into the mold was simple. The crockpot worked great but it's small, fine for end bits that add up over time but not for a 900 gr. batch (oils) of soap. I'll try the oven method later today and I'll let you know how it goes.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 28, 2015)

You can also use CaraBou's method with a hot water bath on the stove. It takes a bit more hovering, however, since you're working on the stove, not in the oven. You also need a second pot that's large enough for your soap pot to fit loosely into. Put water in the larger pot, soap pot in the water, warm the water to just a simmer (CaraBou's 200 F), and let the soap melt as she described.


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## Misschief (Dec 28, 2015)

My kitchen (and especially my stove) has limitations. One of the reasons I didn't like the double bag method was because of space limitations on my stove. It's an apartment sized stove, smaller than a normal stove. Rebatching in a crockpot, or in the oven, doesn't take up much needed stove space, especially now that DH is off work and always underfoot, wanting something to eat. 

If it's in the oven (or a crockpot, which I'll be hunting for today), it's out of the way and he can still use the stove if he wants.


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## newbie (Dec 28, 2015)

Reposting, for easy access and in case someone doesn't go back a page or two.


Not too many entries this month but we will carry on no matter how many there are!

You have three votes. Please vote if you signed up, whether you submitted an entry or not. You may still partake! If you did not sign up, please do not vote.

Voting will close on at midnight on the 30th.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/QZBPSLK

*We need the last three people to vote. Hopefully they aren't on vacation until the end of the year. *


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## newbie (Dec 28, 2015)

I'm having a crisis of confidence. Did people find this challenge too hard or too challenging? It was a holiday month and all, I know, but I want to be certain people like the challenges and are enjoying participating. This one was a bit more complicated with the math and all. Feedback is always good and I like constructive criticism.


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## dibbles (Dec 28, 2015)

I really enjoyed the challenge Newbie. This was something I wanted to try. I'm finding that the technique challenges are techniques I want to try anyway - this is a great way to get the motivation to dive in. I enjoy learning along with those that haven't done them either. There was math in this one, but that wasn't a problem for me, and math isn't always kind to me. So, thanks for putting this one out there.

Now, if you choose a challenge of the soap caning you were working on...different story. That looks difficult.


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## lionprincess00 (Dec 28, 2015)

I really wanted to try it, but my holiday season is just really long. I also had a kids birthday, and so my entire month was eaten up. I wish I had more opportunities to make more soap. I've only made one salt soap and your challenge, a failed try, this month.
December was just too busy for me, of course I can't speak for everyone else.  
Now that things have slowed down,  i am currently cpoping a practice soap for my April's potential challenge. Will try the technique one more time and then a final soap and film it early to prevent the hiccups I had loading my last challenge


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## lenarenee (Dec 28, 2015)

newbie said:


> I'm having a crisis of confidence. Did people find this challenge too hard or too challenging? It was a holiday month and all, I know, but I want to be certain people like the challenges and are enjoying participating. This one was a bit more complicated with the math and all. Feedback is always good and I like constructive criticism.


 
Are you wondering if the small number of entries is due to disinterest or the busy holiday season? For me, I was very interested in trying this and it seemed a simple enough method to try as it didn't require any special equipment, colorants or molds. But we had unexpected events in December so the challenge was put last. 

I still plan on trying it, especially since I need to replenish my stock of plain jane soap, and I got a wonderful slab mold for Christmas!

Ever think of having a "high and low water batch challenge part 2?"


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## newbie (Dec 28, 2015)

No, I hadn't thought of doing the same challenge again. We have a long list of ideas for challenges so don't have a need for a re-do.


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## Saponista (Dec 28, 2015)

I loved this challenge newbie. I think you just got unlucky with the month. I only managed two tries and I would have loved to do more, but just had no time to soap. I imagine everyone had the same problem.


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## BlackDog (Dec 28, 2015)

newbie, I'm grateful you chose this technique!  I was certainly intimidated by it, but it's the kind of thing I never ever would have tried without the challenge to encourage me.  And it didn't end up being as difficult as I thought.  Now I'm planning more batches to use this technique with!  So thank you


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## Saponista (Dec 28, 2015)

One suggestion if we do a similar challenge would be to provide a basic recipe with all the maths worked out that people could stick to and avoid having to calculate anything themselves? Then if  difficulty was the problem it would encourage more people to have a go? I don't think that was the case though as I'm sure people would have asked with calculation help if they had needed it.


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## Misschief (Dec 28, 2015)

I'm glad you did this challenge. It's a technique I've wanted to try from the first time I saw Auntie Clara's posts about it. Unfortunately for me, November/December turned into a time of mourning and soap challenges just didn't happen. I did manage to try it, and will again later this week. The fact that it became part of the monthly challenges was part of the reason I even had the confidence to try it. 

Too difficult? I don't think so, as long as you keep your oils and lye waters straight.


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## newbie (Dec 28, 2015)

Okay. Just checking.

I thought about providing numbers but I thought people would want to use their own recipes or if they didn't have access to or want to use the oils I chose to put out there, they were stuck with the math anyhow. I also assumed people would ask if they were having troubles with the math.


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## lionprincess00 (Dec 28, 2015)

For me recipes are so personal. I've heard lard slows trace and others say trying it sped things up for them, for example.  Im good with my own recipes for challenges  (personally).


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## Steve85569 (Dec 28, 2015)

I loved the challenge. It was a great learning experience and the results - even of my "failures" got my DW interested in my habit er hobby of soaping. "Stained Glass Soap" is something she got excited about.

The hint of the black and white challenge has me already plotting some 2016 Halloween soap too.:think:

I only speak for myself.
Steve


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## Judiraz (Dec 28, 2015)

I loved this challenge as well...probably just the season. It definitely was a challenge, but that's why we want to do them, right? If it was easy or simple it wouldn't be as much fun.


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## jules92207 (Dec 28, 2015)

I still plan on doing the challenge when time allows now that the holiday is over. I honestly was just too swamped holding my head above water. The challenge was awesome newbie, no insecurities necessary.


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## newbie (Dec 28, 2015)

Thanks for the responses, guys. Moments of insecurity are bound to arise, I suppose. 

Also, we currently have a tie for third place so looking for those last three voters before the end of the 30th!


https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/QZBPSLK


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## KristaY (Dec 28, 2015)

Personally, I feel terrible I signed up but didn't get a batch done. I sincerely apologize, newbie. Not only the holidays got in my way but several huge life issues arose. I wanted to participate in Nov and Dec but wasn't able to soap either month. I'm sorry you're feeling insecure and it certainly isn't the challenges on my part, just life. I think you all are doing a great job and I look forward to many more. I just hope life irons itself out so I get back to making soap! My apologies to the soap challenge hosts and Happy New Year to all!


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## newbie (Dec 29, 2015)

Heaven's above! You don't need to apologize for life and what it brings you!! Never never need to apologize for not being able to enter a soap. I am just trying to make sure the challenges I do are meeting expectations and are as good as what the forum deserves. Checking in to see if I need to take anything else into consideration or fine-tune and I don't expect anyone to apologize at all. Truly.


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## newbie (Dec 29, 2015)

Still waiting for three people to vote. Please vote if you haven't already. If you signed up, you can vote, even if you did not submit a soap. I know people announced they would not be entering a soap and so withdrew. They may have withdrawn themselves from voting and so are not checking any longer but I can't tell if they are the missing voters, so I have to let run out to tomorrow.


https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/QZBPSLK


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## doriettefarm (Dec 29, 2015)

I'm another one that feels the need to apologize for not posting any entry this month.  I had good intentions but time just got away from me . . . needed to wrap up some stuff at the office (so I wouldn't feel guilty about taking time off) and make last minute Christmas gifts so that took priority.  I have plans for at least 2 high/low water batches while I'm on vacation and promise newbie I will post pics!  I also have an idea for the Jan B&W challenge so I'm hoping this week will be a productive week soaping-wise.


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## newbie (Dec 29, 2015)

Did you vote Doriette? Don't apologize for not having a soap to enter!


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## newbie (Dec 30, 2015)

Okay folks, we had someone who didn't sign up place votes; I shall assume someone was trying to help us wrap this up but it wasn't helpful at all because it negates the final tally in a way. We can't tell who it was so can't track back and take out their votes. However, even with 25 people voting, the placing didn't change.

*First place* goes to *Judiraz*, who has placed quite frequently and is a soaper to reckon with!

*Second place* goes to *Blackdog* with the very beautiful outlining.

*Third place* is a tie, which has stood since at least the 17th voter and goes to *Carabou*, with her cool dream-like ghost soap, and to *Dibbles*, with her luscious purple soap.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 30, 2015)

Congratulations to Judiraz, Blackdog, Dibbles, and Carabou. Well done!


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## Saponista (Dec 30, 2015)

Well done to all the winners your entries were all fantastic.


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## Deedles (Dec 30, 2015)

Congratulations to all the winners! I'm glad I couldn't vote, it would have been very hard! Thanks Newbie for adding the winning photos.

I love the challenges. Although I've only tried a couple of them I learn alot with each one because of all the info that's shared along the way.

I'm very math deficient so this one was very intimidating. I know recipes are very personal but I may have tried this one if a recipes with all the math figured out had been used. Besides, I trust all you gurus and your recipes!


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## newbie (Dec 30, 2015)

Deedles, I'm sorry you didn't participate because of the math!!! If there is ever an issue like that, please ask. I would have been happy to take your recipe and give you back the amounts needed. Please don't even hesitate to ask.


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## BlackDog (Dec 30, 2015)

Aw, hey! Thanks everybody! Newbie thanks to you for hosting th is challenge; like I said earlier I would not have even tried this technique if not for the challenge and now I have another tool in my belt. Great entries everyone!


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## Judiraz (Dec 30, 2015)

Congrats to everyone and a big thanks to Newbie for bringing us this challenge. I appreciate the votes. I really look forward to these challenges because I learn so much...from my mistakes as well as successes. 

Can't wait to see what everyone comes up with for January's challenge.

Happy New Year!


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## dibbles (Dec 30, 2015)

Thanks everyone! Judiraz, your soap was so soothing to the eye and an outstanding entry. Blackdog, the outlining you achieved was very cool. Carabou, I am honored to share 3rd place with you. I loved the ethereal quality of your soap.

Newbie, thank you for hosting this challenge. It was a busy month for you as well, and your efforts are appreciated. This was a technique I'm glad I learned, and will be playing with it more.

Congratulations to everyone who entered this month, great efforts all. And for those who understandably were unable to get an entry in for December, see you in January!


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## Saponista (Dec 30, 2015)

I forgot to thank you for hosting the challenge newbie. I really enjoyed it, but just wish there were more hours in the day during December so I could have had more tries. I am definitely going to use this technique more, especially after seeing the beautiful colour effects it produces!


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## CaraBou (Dec 30, 2015)

Awesome! I am humbled, especially because I think you had the better soap dibbles.  You got my vote; in fact all three of you did. But I saw markers of the challenge in all of the soaps, so had a hard time deciding.  I hope everyone got something good out of the challenge even if your name didn't show up in the end.  

Thanks newbie (and LP too) for your guidance.


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## newbie (Dec 30, 2015)

It's always a pleasure to host so I'm glad people enjoyed it. Also, adding techniques into the skill set is always fun. You never know when you might pull one out of there!


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## Steve85569 (Dec 30, 2015)

Congrats to the winners!
Thanks to Newbie for posting up this challenge.

I had fun and learned a bunch!


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## snappyllama (Dec 30, 2015)

Congratulations!  Those entries were gorgeous!


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## jules92207 (Dec 31, 2015)

Congratulations you fabulous talented soapers! Beautiful soaps, all of them.


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## KristaY (Dec 31, 2015)

Congratulations Judiraz, Blackdog, Dibbles, and Carabou! You all did a terrific job as did everyone that entered the challenge. Even though I didn't get a chance to enter I'm still going to try this technique soon so thanks newbie for helping us push the boundaries! Great work everyone!!!!


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## lenarenee (Jan 23, 2016)

I finally got to try this technique, long story short: AHRE'so green tea and cucumber doesn't like low water. It's going to be a very interesting soap.


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## lenarenee (Mar 11, 2016)

lenarenee said:


> I finally got to try this technique, long story short: AHRE'so green tea and cucumber doesn't like low water. It's going to be a very interesting soap.



Yes, I'm quoting myself here.

 Checked the progress on these and found massive dos; entire sides of bars turned orange. What gives?


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## newbie (Mar 11, 2016)

I haven't heard anything about the water content lending itself to DOS. Was it touching metal? high SF? ARe you certain the FO does not discolor (unlikely by the name but thought I'd ask)? I haven't had any of mine go bad so I'm not certain what to say.


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## lenarenee (Mar 11, 2016)

It's not fo discoloration. 

Since I can't stand the fragrance, I used these bars to practice planing, and the planer does have a metal blade. But, many of the planed sides aren't affected. Stranger still is that none of the tops developed dos.

Sf was 4%.  I love the high/low water technique, but since the fo accelerated, and it stinks, I was happy to find a reason to pitch them.


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