# Cloudy after neutralization?



## lanm1192 (May 27, 2015)

Hi, I was making liquid soap for the first time, and the test sample came out clear, but I had trouble with diluting, having to add water or soap paste a few times because either I added too much water, or there wasn't enough. I finally got it diluted correctly, and heated it up and neutralized it wih a borax solution, and it turned cloudy after that. I went ahead and just added the essential oils out of impatience, but is it safe to use, even if it stays cloudy? I know the ph strips can be off a few ranges, but it showed up at seven, so I'd imagine even if it's at an eight or a nine, it'd still be fine. Any help? Thank you.


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## Susie (May 27, 2015)

Hey and welcome!  

In order to really help, we need to know your recipe(in actual weights).  Did you zap test the paste?  If so, did it zap?


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## lanm1192 (May 27, 2015)

Susie said:


> Hey and welcome!
> 
> In order to really help, we need to know your recipe(in actual weights).  Did you zap test the paste?  If so, did it zap?



16.5 ounces olive oil
7 ounces coconut oil
5.5 ounces potassium hydroxide

I couldn't say the dilution rate at this point, but I ended up with about two pounds of soap which I added three table spoons of a borax solution to. I didn't zap test the soap paste, hough I have plenty left over. What exactly would I do? What am I looking for? Also, if needed, am I able to just add the paste back to the crockpot to cook from where I left off? It tested clear originally, but the entirety of the soap didn't become translucent, just part of it.


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## Susie (May 27, 2015)

I get a -5% superfat on your recipe, so you definitely needed to neutralize.  I think what you have is perfectly safe to use.  You may get it to clarify if you let it sit a couple of weeks.  Is the cloudiness just on the top in a layer?  

You can make perfectly good soap that does not need to be neutralized.  Just use a lye calculator, and enter 0-3% superfat.  Not a negative superfat.  I prefer this one:

http://summerbeemeadow.com/sites/all/sbm_calc_input/calc_input_page_1.1.html

You will need to zap test your soap paste before dilution. You can't adequately measure pH in a soap using equipment at home.  To zap test, just pick a tiny bit up and touch the end of your tongue to it.(Or run a wet finger over the paste, then touch your tongue to the finger.)  If you get a zap like the feeling you get when you touch your tongue to a 9V battery that has a charge, then the soap is not safe to dilute.  It still has free lye in it.  You then need to let it cook more, or if you are doing CP, just let it sit a couple of more hours.


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## lanm1192 (May 27, 2015)

Susie said:


> I get a -5% superfat on your recipe, so you definitely needed to neutralize.  I think what you have is perfectly safe to use.  You may get it to clarify if you let it sit a couple of weeks.  Is the cloudiness just on the top in a layer?
> 
> You can make perfectly good soap that does not need to be neutralized.  Just use a lye calculator, and enter 0-3% superfat.  Not a negative superfat.  I prefer this one:
> 
> ...




Thank you. The entire soap looks like milk now lol. The cloudiness really doesn't bother me, unless there's some harm that may come from me using it. From what I understand, seauestering isn't necessary, right? So really, if it's just that it needs that, I'd rather just use the soap as is.


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## Susie (May 27, 2015)

I would go ahead and use it.  Congratulations, BTW!


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## lanm1192 (May 27, 2015)

Thank you!


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## Mildreds.naturals (Jun 4, 2015)

If it's milky, it probably was neutralized too much. You didn't mention how you made the borax solution so we can't tell if 3 tablespoons is enough. My guess is it was too much. LS tends to get milky when the PH drops way too far in my experience. Usually that means it won't work very well either, but give it a try.

I would recommend doing your recipe again but do it with SoapCalc and the recommended 3% superfat and it will probably be nice and clear even at that. Get some phenolphthalein drops on amazon they are cheap and simple to use. Bright pink = bad, little pink = probably ok, no pink at all = good to use (unless it's milky and no pink + milky means you over neutralized most likely). 

I'm very weary about neutralizing my soaps. I use VERY little or try to really make sure that I add a superfat of at least 1%. Usually after diluting the soap and letting it sit for a week, testing proves PH is good.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jun 4, 2015)

Mildreds.naturals said:


> .............I would recommend doing your recipe again but do it with SoapCalc and the recommended 3% superfat and it will probably be nice and clear even at that. Get some phenolphthalein drops on amazon they are cheap and simple to use. Bright pink = bad, little pink = probably ok, no pink at all = good to use (unless it's milky and no pink + milky means you over neutralized most likely). ................testing proves PH is good.



So how bright is bright pink to you?  How little pink is your little pink?  Testing the pH?  So what pH is "bright pink", or does it depend on the brightness?

This is why I would say to zap test, as then you know it is safe to use with no worrying about whether or not the pink is really bright or not, or just slightly pink.  If you really HAVE to pH test, make a 1% solution with water and get a pH meter that is properly calibrated.  Anything else (strips or Pheno) and you might as well forget it.


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## Saponista (Jun 4, 2015)

Will u still get the same zap sensation from fluid liquid soap? I checked my paste for zapping and no zap. But if you forgot to check then diluted it would you still get a zap if it was lye heavy or would the water somehow interfere with that?


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## Susie (Jun 4, 2015)

If it is a recipe you have used before, and the soap feels fine, then I would not worry about this batch.  But do try to remember on all the other batches.


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## Susie (Jun 4, 2015)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> So how bright is bright pink to you?  How little pink is your little pink?  Testing the pH?  So what pH is "bright pink", or does it depend on the brightness?
> 
> This is why I would say to zap test, as then you know it is safe to use with no worrying about whether or not the pink is really bright or not, or just slightly pink.  If you really HAVE to pH test, make a 1% solution with water and get a pH meter that is properly calibrated.  Anything else (strips or Pheno) and you might as well forget it.



^This.


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## Mildreds.naturals (Jun 4, 2015)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> So how bright is bright pink to you?  How little pink is your little pink?  Testing the pH?  So what pH is "bright pink", or does it depend on the brightness?
> 
> This is why I would say to zap test, as then you know it is safe to use with no worrying about whether or not the pink is really bright or not, or just slightly pink.  If you really HAVE to pH test, make a 1% solution with water and get a pH meter that is properly calibrated.  Anything else (strips or Pheno) and you might as well forget it.



Take a small flake of KOH or NaOh and add it to water it will make it extremely alkaline so when you add just a drop of the solution to it, it will turn bright pink, that is how you know what is bad and common sense will follow.   I don't exactly like licking my soap, and I approach things with consistency since I want to make a consistent product to my customers. Consistency is a part of quality in any product I make but that is just my recommendation. You could buy a PH meter but that just seems like  a lot of money that could go into making more soap!


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## shunt2011 (Jun 4, 2015)

Another one here who highly recommends zap testing. PH strips are just not accurate with soap.  Soap is alkaline


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## Susie (Jun 4, 2015)

And phenolpthalein color is too subjective, as well as influenced by too many factors(paper towels/plates).  Give me a simple zap test any day.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jun 5, 2015)

Mildreds.naturals said:


> Take a small flake of KOH or NaOh and add it to water it will make it extremely alkaline so when you add just a drop of the solution to it, it will turn bright pink, that is how you know what is bad and common sense will follow.   I don't exactly like licking my soap, and I approach things with consistency since I want to make a consistent product to my customers. Consistency is a part of quality in any product I make but that is just my recommendation. You could buy a PH meter but that just seems like  a lot of money that could go into making more soap!




As the two above me said, if you want to be consistent then the method you use is not helping you obtain that. 

If you don't like licking soap, all well and good, it's your choice. But please don't suggest that pheno is better when it's only saving grace for you is that you don't have to lick your soap. As not everyone feels that same aversion, they can get a more accurate (ie actually accurate) response on the question of soap safety


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