# Oils clumping after adding liquid/lye



## Dianne (Dec 20, 2017)

Often, after I add my liquid/lye solution to my oils, I get "clumps" when I begin to blend with my stick blender. At first, I thought the batter went straight to a really, super-thick trace, but when I blend it and stir it, it seems to calm down a little bit. I have been soaping at a very cool temp--usually around 70 for the lye & 75 for the oils because I had some previous trouble with my batter turning quickly into an over-traced solid bowl of glob.

What could be causing this and what can I do to prevent it?


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## jcandleattic (Dec 20, 2017)

What is your recipe? Do you have a lot of 'hard' oils or butters in your recipe? That could do it if the temps are too low or too high. 
As long as you're sure you are not getting false trace, I'd say it's fine if it loosens up and comes to normal trace after stick blending.


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## Dianne (Dec 20, 2017)

Thanks for the reply! I am using coconut oil, palm oil, olive & a little castor.


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## jcandleattic (Dec 20, 2017)

It might be because you are soaping too cool. What is your lye concentration?


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## toxikon (Dec 20, 2017)

The melt point of palm oil is 95F / 35C. You're soaping at 75F?


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## jcandleattic (Dec 20, 2017)

toxikon said:


> The melt point of palm oil is 95F / 35C. You're soaping at 75F?



And coconut at best is 76°


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## DeeAnna (Dec 20, 2017)

I'm voting on false trace, like the others are. There are many reasons why "batter turn quickly into an over-traced solid bowl of glob." Soaping cooler and cooler isn't always the best solution. 

If you share your recipe (all ingredients in weights please!) and your method, you will get good feedback about what might be the cause of your trouble.


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## Dianne (Dec 21, 2017)

Thank you! My recipe is: 16 oz coconut oil, 16 oz palm oil, 16 oz olive oil & 2 oz castor. I apologize for my newbie-ness, but I am not sure what "lye concentration" is. I use 7.24 oz of lye and 16.5 oz of raw goats milk. The problem I have is that I freeze my goats milk, put the bowl in a ice/water slurry and add the lye super slowly so as not to scorch it. The end result is that by the time my lye is mixed in, the temp is pretty low. I then lower the temp of the oil so that they are within 10 degrees.


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## toxikon (Dec 21, 2017)

No need to apologize! Everybody starts somewhere. 

There are basically a few ways of determining the lye/water ratio for your recipe in a Lye Calculator.

They often have these 3 options:
- Lye as % of water
- Lye Concentration
- Lye to Water Ratio

The first option is set as the default for most Lye Calculators, which is odd, because you'll find that most of us use one of the other two options instead.

I use Lye Concentration in particular. You can think of wanting to add your Lye and Water up to 100%. The highest concentration of lye you can use is 50%, because lye needs an equal amount of water to dissolve it fully. So the strongest solution you can make is 50% lye and 50% water.

The lowest (most dilute) lye concentration you should use is 25% (25% lye, 75% water). Any lower than that and you may have some problems with your soap.

So figuring out how to choose between 25-50% Lye Concentration (and everything in-between those numbers)? It's recipe-dependent and personal preference.

Most of us find that 33-35% is a sweet middle-spot for most recipes. Castile (100% olive oil) recipes can benefit from a bit of a higher lye-concentration, around 40%.

This is all assuming cold-process, of course. With hot process you do want more water to keep your batter fluid, so 25% Lye Concentration would work well there.

Anyway... I've drifted off on a tangent.

In regards to the temperatures: it does sound like you're soaping too cool, and if you raise the temp of your oils a bit, that should solve your problem. As I mentioned, the melting point of Palm Oil is 95F, so dropping it below that may make the Palm Oil begin to clump back up again. Does your oil mixture look cloudy or clear after you've melted the oils? It should be clear.

Another point to bring up is newbies often stickblend TOO much, leading to faster trace. You really only need to stick-blend to emulsion (aka your batter is still liquid but the lye solution is well-incorporated). After you've reached emulsion (sometimes only 30 seconds of stickblending will do it), you can switch to a whisk or a spatula to allow yourself more time to add your fragrances and colours.

Hope that helps!!!


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## Dianne (Dec 21, 2017)

Thank you so much!! This is fantastic information. And it makes perfect sense, too!! I admit I probably do use the stick blender too much. I tend to over-do things, haha!! I saw a silicone whisk at the store the other day. I will certainly pick one up.

The oils do tend to be kind of cloudy, so I feel your diagnosis was correct. 

If only all the problems in my life can be fixed so quickly...


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## isha (Dec 21, 2017)

I also do the same mistake of over blending...  N this brings to medium trace..  I wanted to do a hanger swirl n wanted to drop my batter like free flowing fluid that it reaches to the bottom...  But I dunno why..  But as I divided the batters I feel it was at think trace..  But while I was mixing my colours n eo to theain base batter the batter in td  cup almost seized..  I had to rewhisk it for it to come out of my jars to the mould.. 

Now I think may be I had used the stickblend  too long


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## dibbles (Dec 21, 2017)

Dianne said:


> Thank you! My recipe is: 16 oz coconut oil, 16 oz palm oil, 16 oz olive oil & 2 oz castor. I apologize for my newbie-ness, but I am not sure what "lye concentration" is. I use 7.24 oz of lye and 16.5 oz of raw goats milk. The problem I have is that I freeze my goats milk, put the bowl in a ice/water slurry and add the lye super slowly so as not to scorch it. The end result is that by the time my lye is mixed in, the temp is pretty low. I then lower the temp of the oil so that they are within 10 degrees.



I think the advice to have oil and lye solution temps within 10 degrees is suggested as a guideline for new soapers as a reference point. Probably so the lye solution is given time to cool. A lot of people master batch lye solution, which is then used at room temperature and the oils are warmer.


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## toxikon (Dec 21, 2017)

curaherbal said:


> I also do the same mistake of over blending...  N this brings to medium trace..  I wanted to do a hanger swirl n wanted to drop my batter like free flowing fluid that it reaches to the bottom...  But I dunno why..  But as I divided the batters I feel it was at think trace..  But while I was mixing my colours n eo to theain base batter the batter in td  cup almost seized..  I had to rewhisk it for it to come out of my jars to the mould..
> 
> Now I think may be I had used the stickblend  too long



Common advice for newbies is to stick-blend to "thin-medium" trace, but once your batter is tracing, it can go from thin to thick VERY quickly.

So I prefer only stick-blending until emulsified, then switching to a spatula. Sometimes I even pour at emulsion, depending on what kind of design I'm trying to achieve. And I've never had the lye solution separate out.


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## isha (Dec 21, 2017)

I try to be extra careful..  N overthink n worry about false trace I guess..  So blend in a little more.. 
I'm haunted by the false trace..  

How exactly do I confirm that it's thin trace n not false trace.??
..  
Fear of not knowing the difference is what making me whip more..


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## toxikon (Dec 21, 2017)

curaherbal said:


> I try to be extra careful..  N overthink n worry about false trace I guess..  So blend in a little more..
> I'm haunted by the false trace..
> 
> How exactly do I confirm that it's thin trace n not false trace.??
> ...



Well the main cause of false trace is soaping at too low of a temperature with a recipe with lots of high-melt-point oils (palm, butters, etc.). 

As long as your temperature is appropriate for your recipe, false trace won't happen often, if at all.


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## isha (Dec 21, 2017)

I usually use olive Palm n coconut..  N mix at 120-110 F. I guess I don't have to be worried bout false trace then...


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## jcandleattic (Dec 21, 2017)

I agree with dibbles, there's no real reason to keep your oils and lye at the same temps. You don't want them too hot or too cool but they don't need to be the same or close to the same temps. 

When I make GM soap, and use the method you used, I usually warm my oils to about 95-100 degrees and soap with the cold GM solution and it works fine. 

A lot of people here use the split method for their GM soaps. You can do a search and a lot of threads will come up describing the method.


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## penelopejane (Dec 21, 2017)

This is how to find emulsion:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39pLHKMtN6o&t=109s[/ame]


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## isha (Dec 22, 2017)

Thanks for the video penelopejane. ..  Now I know what I did wrong n where to stop...


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## isha (Dec 22, 2017)

curaherbal said:


> I also do the same mistake of over blending...  N this brings to medium trace..  I wanted to do a hanger swirl n wanted to drop my batter like free flowing fluid that it reaches to the bottom...  But I dunno why..  But as I divided the batters I feel it was at think trace..  But while I was mixing my colours n eo to theain base batter the batter in td  cup almost seized..  I had to rewhisk it for it to come out of my jars to the mould..
> 
> Now I think may be I had used the stickblend  too long


Even after my batter thickened.  I managed to get some decent swirls..  Not exactly how I wanted though.. 
How do they look


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