# My fragrance keeps disappearing



## Brother josephus (Sep 5, 2019)

I've been making cold process soap for a couple months now oh, still a newbie by far, I know the correct percentages of my fragrance oils, I know how to calculate the percentages. However even with the assistance of Kaolin clay I cannot seem to get my fragrances to stick around. Are there any other tips that I could try to make my fragrances stick around? I use olive oil, coconut oil and avocado oil


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## IrishLass (Sep 5, 2019)

Where did you purchase your FOs from and which ones are you using......and how much are you using in your batches? Some FOs are just plain weak and won't stick even if you use the highest recommended amount. 

Personally speaking, I've actually never found any of the reported tricks to work for me in helping to get any of the weak FOs I've ever purchased to stick around. The best remedy I've found is to only purchase FOs that are known 'stickers' all on their own. The way in which to do that is to read all the FO reviews you can find on a particular FO, or ask around on the forum for other's experiences with whatever FO you are interested in before purchasing. 


IrishLass


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## shunt2011 (Sep 5, 2019)

I agree with Irishlass. I’ve not found clay to help make a weak fragrance stick. If a fragrance doesn’t stick I don’t make it again.  I’ve got many many fragrances that stick a year or more.  If you tell us where your getting them and how much you generally use we may be able to help. I use most fragrances at 1 oz ppo.


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## cmzaha (Sep 5, 2019)

I also agree with Shunt (Shari) and Irishlass that nothing is going to help a fader fragrance hold. This is why we have to test fragrances and use enough. I use most fragrances at 1.1% ppo


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## SoaperForLife (Sep 6, 2019)

Yeah, I third what the other two said.  Shop quality fragrance oils, read the reviews and test using a 1 lb. soap batch.  Save your "faders" for other products (syndet shampoo bars, lotions, body butters).


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## gloopygloop (Sep 6, 2019)

I fourth what has been said. Here in Europe we have a maximum allowable level which is around the 3% mark but more often 2% for many FOs or EOs. For me testing has been the only way to know, out of the bottle means nothing, once it’s in soap it will do what it wants, either fade into nothingness, change into something else less pleasant or more pleasant or stay there for the long term. I usually try to make a really tiny batch as a tester first on a new FO to see how it works out, I have a big box of no, no’s!


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## Brother josephus (Sep 6, 2019)

IrishLass said:


> Where did you purchase your FOs from and which ones are you using......and how much are you using in your batches? Some FOs are just plain weak and won't stick even if you use the highest recommended amount.
> 
> Personally speaking, I've actually never found any of the reported tricks to work for me in helping to get any of the weak FOs I've ever purchased to stick around. The best remedy I've found is to only purchase FOs that are known 'stickers' all on their own. The way in which to do that is to read all the FO reviews you can find on a particular FO, or ask around on the forum for other's experiences with whatever FO you are interested in before purchasing.
> 
> ...


I purchased my fragrance oils from Nature's Gardens. Fragrances like black raspberry and vanilla, deadly weapon, loving spell, Indian Sandalwood, one night stand, have all disappeared on me. Lavender flowers, peppermint, floral bouquet are the only ones that are worth a hill of beans


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## Lin19687 (Sep 6, 2019)

Brother josephus said:


> I purchased my fragrance oils from Nature's Gardens. Fragrances like black raspberry and vanilla, deadly weapon, loving spell, Indian Sandalwood, one night stand, have all disappeared on me. Lavender flowers, peppermint, floral bouquet are the only ones that are worth a hill of beans


Love Spell from NG DOES NOT Disappear.  Either you are not using enough or your recipe is the culprit . I have Love Spell that is 1 year old and JUST as strong as the day I put it in.

You are the 2nd person to say this and I have to say that it must be a recipe issue or usage issue.  As I posted in another thread about NG, they Stick.  If these were true non stickers there would be many reviews saying so.
Being a new soaper I would double check recipe and usage.


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## Marilyn Norgart (Sep 6, 2019)

Lin19687 said:


> You are the 2nd person to say this



I'll be the third one! but I am wondering if its me with this scent cuz someone else smelled my bars and commented on how strong they were


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## Megan (Sep 6, 2019)

Wow! A maximum level of 3% seems kind of low...I usually use 6-7% ppo everything (edit: every CP soap) I make. Of course I follow the IFRA guidelines. I wonder if fragrances are more concentrated in Europe, I feel like 3% doesn't smell like anything!



gloopygloop said:


> I fourth what has been said. Here in Europe we have a maximum allowable level which is around the 3% mark but more often 2% for many FOs or EOs. For me testing has been the only way to know, out of the bottle means nothing, once it’s in soap it will do what it wants, either fade into nothingness, change into something else less pleasant or more pleasant or stay there for the long term. I usually try to make a really tiny batch as a tester first on a new FO to see how it works out, I have a big box of no, no’s!


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## gloopygloop (Sep 6, 2019)

Megan we have to have a safety assessment issued by a cosmetic chemist to be allowed to sell soap in Europe and it is the cosmetic chemist who will write into our assessments at what level we can use certain EOs and FOs which contain certain chemicals. I realise to most of you that you would imagine that our soap smells of nothing but that isn’t the case at all, and also of course we don’t use soap to perfume our skin just that it should smell good while using it and those percentages do that for us. The IFRA guidelines are just that but it’s our assessment which dictates.


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## Megan (Sep 6, 2019)

gloopygloop said:


> Megan we have to have a safety assessment issued by a cosmetic chemist to be allowed to sell soap in Europe and it is the cosmetic chemist who will write into our assessments at what level we can use certain EOs and FOs which contain certain chemicals. I realise to most of you that you would imagine that our soap smells of nothing but that isn’t the case at all, and also of course we don’t use soap to perfume our skin just that it should smell good while using it and those percentages do that for us. The IFRA guidelines are just that but it’s our assessment which dictates.



I understand the regulations are different. I was just comparing to my experience as I feel even 6% is too low for me sometimes with some that I use, but that's probably just the fragrances I choose and my own perception. My soap at 6% doesn't perfume my skin. Most companies around here recommend 5-6% in CP soap, so it's just interesting to me that there is such a difference.


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## cmzaha (Sep 6, 2019)

Brother josephus said:


> I purchased my fragrance oils from Nature's Gardens. Fragrances like black raspberry and vanilla, deadly weapon, loving spell, Indian Sandalwood, one night stand, have all disappeared on me. Lavender flowers, peppermint, floral bouquet are the only ones that are worth a hill of beans


Indian Sandalwood will fade so I used mine up by mixing it and Deadly Weapon at 6% does not fade. I make a lot of soap with Deadly Weapon. Soapsupplies.net has a beautiful Black Raspberry Vanilla that does not fade. I have never tried BRV from NG. Loving Spell I have not used and prefer the Love Spell from California Candle Supply. NG's Egyptian Dragon sticks well for at least 4 yrs which is my oldest ED soap. Werewolf sticks and so does Mango Sorbet.


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## gloopygloop (Sep 6, 2019)

Megan said:


> I understand the regulations are different. I was just comparing to my experience as I feel even 6% is too low for me sometimes with some that I use, but that's probably just the fragrances I choose and my own perception. My soap at 6% doesn't perfume my skin. Most companies around here recommend 5-6% in CP soap, so it's just interesting to me that there is such a difference.



Yes indeed it is very interesting. We are over here thinking oh my goodness what a huge amount of FO it must knock your socks off and you are thinking how stingy what is the point of that tiny amount in soap I must admit that in my laundry soap I do put in 5% as it is only for me and it gets so diluted with the laundry it’s nice to have a hint in the washing when it’s done, I do however find it overpowering to my nose before it gets used, we just get used to it I suppose. You might just for the fun of it one day try making a teeny batch with say 3% and see how you feel it compares, that could be interesting too.


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## Megan (Sep 6, 2019)

gloopygloop said:


> Yes indeed it is very interesting. We are over here thinking oh my goodness what a huge amount of FO it must knock your socks off and you are thinking how stingy what is the point of that tiny amount in soap I must admit that in my laundry soap I do put in 5% as it is only for me and it gets so diluted with the laundry it’s nice to have a hint in the washing when it’s done, I do however find it overpowering to my nose before it gets used, we just get used to it I suppose. You might just for the fun of it one day try making a teeny batch with say 3% and see how you feel it compares, that could be interesting too.



I'm wondering if dropping it down would fix my nose blindness? haha! Problem is, I don't think 3% fragrance would sell here. Again, I realize it is fragrance specific where some would probably scent the soap "adequately" at that level. I figure ~moderately/heavily~ fragranced and unfragranced are my options here.


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## melinda48 (Sep 6, 2019)

I also suggest looking at the usage rate suggested by the vendor from whom you are buying. Candle Science, for instance, does a good job with suggested usage rates.


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## gloopygloop (Sep 6, 2019)

Megan said:


> I'm wondering if dropping it down would fix my nose blindness? haha! Problem is, I don't think 3% fragrance would sell here. Again, I realize it is fragrance specific where some would probably scent the soap "adequately" at that level. I figure ~moderately/heavily~ fragranced and unfragranced are my options here.


I must agree it is horses for courses! We here in Europe were of course forced into what we are now used to, I guess it’s a bit like giving up sugar one have you can’t go back, but don’t quote me on that one cos the cheat is a piece of cake with the tea without sugar don’t how that would work with the soap though!


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## jcandleattic (Sep 6, 2019)

Marilyn Norgart said:


> I'll be the third one! but I am wondering if its me with this scent cuz someone else smelled my bars and commented on how strong they were


So then the scent really didn't fade as earlier suggested, you just couldn't smell it. Not the same thing. 

I think this happens a lot with people who work with scent a lot. They can't smell it but others can. 
So, we all need to keep that in mind... Just because we think it's faded, or can't smell it, doesn't mean the scent is not there. This is another reason we (or at least *I*) give out our (my) soaps that I think may have faded to people I trust to give me an honest opinion as to whether they can smell it or not. More often than not, the answer is yes, they can smell it and it's a moderate to a strong smelling scent.


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## Lin19687 (Sep 6, 2019)

Soap is not to scent the skin, just scent while washing.  People that are a bit more 'hairy' will have the scent last longer but for me it lasts hr about 1/2 hr (NON-HAIRY) at best.
Also it is a Usage rate given by the seller of the FO that make it skin safe.  Too much and you run the risk of skin irritation and possibly a lawsuit here.


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## Brother josephus (Sep 6, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> Indian Sandalwood will fade so I used mine up by mixing it and Deadly Weapon at 6% does not fade. I make a lot of soap with Deadly Weapon. Soapsupplies.net has a beautiful Black Raspberry Vanilla that does not fade. I have never tried BRV from NG. Loving Spell I have not used and prefer the Love Spell from California Candle Supply. NG's Egyptian Dragon sticks well for at least 4 yrs which is my oldest ED soap. Werewolf sticks and so does Mango Sorbet.


Is that 6% each fragrance? Or 6% total. Thank you so much for trying to help


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## jcandleattic (Sep 6, 2019)

Megan said:


> My soap at 6% doesn't perfume my skin.


I completely missed this. Scenting the skin from soap is very rare. As @Lin19687  said, it will stick to some people (my sister is one of those it will stick too) but most people the scent will leave the skin within minutes of getting out of the shower. 
This is a completely different topic than scent fading out of soap however, so I think this thread is getting confused with several different topics in one. 

Also scent sticking to the skin IMO is more of a DNA or skin structure type of thing and how each individuals skin reacts to scent than the scent itself. It's why some perfumes smell absolutely beautiful on some people and the same exact perfume (out of the same bottle even) will smell absolutely horrid on other people.


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## Megan (Sep 6, 2019)

jcandleattic said:


> I completely missed this. Scenting the skin from soap is very rare. As @Lin19687  said, it will stick to some people (my sister is one of those it will stick too) but most people the scent will leave the skin within minutes of getting out of the shower.
> This is a completely different topic than scent fading out of soap however, so I think this thread is getting confused with several different topics in one.
> 
> Also scent sticking to the skin IMO is more of a DNA or skin structure type of thing and how each individuals skin reacts to scent than the scent itself. It's why some perfumes smell absolutely beautiful on some people and the same exact perfume (out of the same bottle even) will smell absolutely horrid on other people.



My comment was more a reply to the above post where they mentioned that soap wasn't meant to perfume the skin in response to us using a much higher percent here in the US.


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## IrishLass (Sep 6, 2019)

Ditto 100% what jcandleattic said. The scent receptors in our noses come into play, too. The ability to detect certain scents can often vary from person to person at any given time, i.e. some scent receptors might be over-saturated with certain scent molecules to the point that certain scents can't be detected for a period of time (going outside for awhile and coming back in resets things), or some scent receptors might be totally inactive, and/or some might be overactive, or over sensitive, etc..... It's always good to get second and third opinions when testing the strength of a scent in soap.


IrishLass


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## shunt2011 (Sep 6, 2019)

I use many of those listed. Loving Spell, Indian Sandalwood, Lavender Flowers and the y’all last well for me. I have Indian Sandalwood and Loving Spell that are 8-10 months old and still going strong. I also think sometime recipes and noses are different.   Which can affect things too.


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## Zany_in_CO (Sep 6, 2019)

Brother josephus said:


> However even with the assistance of Kaolin clay I cannot seem to get my fragrances to stick around.


I'm wondering how old the soaps are that you're talking about? If young soap, it sometimes happens that the fragrance disappears then comes back after a longer cure, especially when you lather up in the shower. 

Also, a soap high in olive oil may act that way vs. just the opposite with lard/tallow soaps, or so I've found.


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## cmzaha (Sep 6, 2019)

The Sandalwood is a total of 6% split between another Sandalwood and Cedarwood EO. Two percent of each


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## Marilyn Norgart (Sep 6, 2019)

shunt2011 said:


> I also think sometime recipes and noses are different



yes!!  when I shower with my patchouli bar that scent sticks for hours but most of them I don't smell--I really think it is my nose.  I make a anise bar that I give to a friend and his wife says she smells it for along time but she has never said that about any other scents


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## Arimara (Sep 7, 2019)

There are plenty of us who have noses that can't tolerate scenting over 3% PPO. 6% FO is way too much for my nose and would trigger a migraine I don't need. I also would fear my daughter reacting to such a soap.


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## SoaperForLife (Sep 7, 2019)

jcandleattic said:


> I think this happens a lot with people who work with scent a lot. They can't smell it but others can.
> So, we all need to keep that in mind... Just because we think it's faded, or can't smell it, doesn't mean the scent is not there


So true! People coming to my house always remark about how good it smells (my soap boxes are kept in my dining area) and I can't smell them at all!


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## meena.shah (Sep 7, 2019)

Brother josephus said:


> I purchased my fragrance oils from Nature's Gardens. Fragrances like black raspberry and vanilla, deadly weapon, loving spell, Indian Sandalwood, one night stand, have all disappeared on me. Lavender flowers, peppermint, floral bouquet are the only ones that are worth a hill of beans



I am also facing the same problem.



Brother josephus said:


> Is that 6% each fragrance? Or 6% total. Thank you so much for trying to help


Does it mean to add 6% of FO in 100grams


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## jcandleattic (Sep 7, 2019)

meena.shah said:


> Does it mean to add 6% of FO in 100grams


6% of weight. Most people use 6% per pound of oils (or whatever measurement you use) or 6% total batch weight.


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## Highfive (Oct 7, 2020)

Thanks to my mentor, its was suggested to purchase a sample size of any fragrance. Use it to make (Test batch) 1lbs or smaller. If the scent last its a winner; if it fails use it for personal use. Its a win-win situation. As recommended check suppliers website for usage. Customers of Bramble Berry, Nurture Soaps, Symphony Scents, From Nature with Love, Rustic Essentials, Nature Gardens and Essential Depot just to name a few recommendations. We use most fragrances at 3%-5%


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