# Soap turning soft when used.



## Coldprocesssoap (May 29, 2020)

Hi! 
i have been making cold proces soap, but it is turning a little soft and sticky when used and is not hard soap as when it has just been cut. 
What can be the problem?

The recipe is
10 % almond butter
7% castor oil
12% cocoa butter
15% coconut oil
33% olive oil
23% shea butter
And a bit of clay

superfat 5%
lye concentration 38%
I also take out half of the water and add that same amount with coconut milk.
In the beginning I had a higher amount of coconut oil, but I felt like it was too drying on my skin. 

Thank you.


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## amd (May 29, 2020)

Define what you mean by soft? Most handmade soaps will become softer as they absorb moisture when being used. This is why it is important to dry soaps between use.


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## Coldprocesssoap (May 29, 2020)

It’s as if the outer layer can be peeled of easily and it feels sticky. And it leaves bits of soap where it has been standing to dry between washing.


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## amd (May 29, 2020)

That sounds pretty normal to me! Keep in mind if you're expecting your handmade soap to act like commercial soap, it's not going to. Commercial soap is made with no superfat, and usually has synthetic detergents and/or other chemicals added to it so that it doesn't get soft... but your skin pays for it.

You could try dropping your superfat by 1 or 2% so that more of your oils are converted to soap. I found that when I changed my SF from 5% to 3% that my skin couldn't feel a difference, but the amount of "scuzz" my hubby was cleaning out of our drains was greatly reduced. 

Although wait... you have 10% *almond butter*?? do you mean almond oil? If you mean almond butter like what you buy at the store for putting on your toast... I would take that out of your oil calculation, and use it as an additive. If it's an almond butter blend (like the green tea or avocado butters you can buy at various suppliers), then carry on.


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## Coldprocesssoap (May 29, 2020)

Wow thank you! I will definetly try to reduce the superfat to 3%.
I’m so sorry, it’s almond Oil that I used;-)

I do still feel that the soap is a little drying for my skin allthough I reduced the coconut Oil. Can this be because I dont let the soap cure for the 4-6 weeks before I use it?


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## artemis (May 29, 2020)

Coldprocesssoap said:


> ...Can this be because I dont let the soap cure for the 4-6 weeks before I use it?



Yes.


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## Obsidian (May 29, 2020)

Make sure your soap is sitting on a good draining dish with lots of air flow. If I leave my soap on the build in ledges in the shower, they will get gooey. 
Instead, I use a stainless steel wire rack so absolutely no water is left pooling around the soap.


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## Misschief (May 29, 2020)

Coldprocesssoap said:


> Can this be because I dont let the soap cure for the 4-6 weeks before I use it?


Wait, you're using it right away? Let it cure 4-6 weeks, then try it again. Soap is ALWAYS better after a proper cure time.


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## TheGecko (May 30, 2020)

Coldprocesssoap said:


> Can this be because I dont let the soap cure for the 4-6 weeks before I use it?



Yes.  I let my soaps cure for 8 weeks because I like a nice hard bar.  And your Shea Butter is a little high...it will contribute to the stickiness.


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## Coldprocesssoap (May 30, 2020)

TheGecko said:


> Yes.  I let my soaps cure for 8 weeks because I like a nice hard bar.  And your Shea Butter is a little high...it will contribute to the stickiness.


Which oil/butter do you recommend that I increase the amount of instead of shea butter if not the coconut Oil?



Misschief said:


> Wait, you're using it right away? Let it cure 4-6 weeks, then try it again. Soap is ALWAYS better after a proper cure time.


It is so hard to wait, but maybe I should try that;-)


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## SoapSisters (May 30, 2020)

Coldprocesssoap said:


> i have been making cold proces soap, but it is turning a little soft and sticky when used and is not hard soap as when it has just been cut.
> What can be the problem?


I recently started experimenting with soy wax, and I love how hard it makes my soap. I use 20% soy wax and find it's enough to prevent that "outer layer peeling off" that you wrote about. I've found, though, that the cure REALLY MATTERS with my soy wax soap. At 1-2 weeks it hardly lathers. At 4-6 weeks, there's wonderful and plentiful lather! You can do a search here on SMF for suggestions about what kind of soy wax to buy + recipe suggestions. Good luck!


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## penelopejane (May 30, 2020)

Coldprocesssoap said:


> Which oil/butter do you recommend that I increase the amount of instead of shea butter if not the coconut Oil?


I'd increase the Olive oil and let it cure longer.
I'd also drop the Castor oil to 5%.  I know it is only 2% less but it will make your soap sticky at higher than 5%.
Are you sure you are using 38% lye concentration and not 38% water as a % of oils?


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## SPowers (May 30, 2020)

Are you using sodium lactate?  Doesn't that help with the hardness?


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## TheGecko (May 30, 2020)

Coldprocesssoap said:


> Which oil/butter do you recommend that I increase the amount of instead of shea butter if not the coconut Oil?



You can use Palm Oil, Mango Butter, Babassu Oil, Lard or Tallow.



SPowers said:


> Are you using sodium lactate? Doesn't that help with the hardness?



Sodium Lactate is mainly used to make the soap easier to remove from the mold and is generally limited to 1 teaspoon per pound of oils.


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## CatahoulaBubble (May 30, 2020)

It's your lack of cure time. Your soap isn't losing any moisture and it's not developing it's crystalline structure. Also the reason you're finding it drying on your skin is because you aren't letting it cure. Fresh soap is a lot stronger and strips more oils off of your skin because the soap hasn't developed it's profile. Also that amount of shea butter in soap is a waste. Try just using 3% shea butter in your recipe and just let it cure for the full 6 weeks. You'll find a soap of a different color that will give you a true profile you can work off of to develop the right recipe.


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## SPowers (May 31, 2020)

TheGecko said:


> Sodium Lactate is mainly used to make the soap easier to remove from the mold and is generally limited to 1 teaspoon per pound of oils.



I thought it also added to the hardness of the bar...


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## TheGecko (May 31, 2020)

SPowers said:


> I thought it also added to the hardness of the bar...



I'm sure it does, but I'm not sure if the recommended usage rate would be as effective as adding a hard oil/butter.


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## SPowers (May 31, 2020)

ah, ok thanks


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## amd (May 31, 2020)

CatahoulaBubble said:


> Also that amount of shea butter in soap is a waste.


I disagree. I use 15%shea with 5% cocoa butter in my regular recipe, and have a vegan recipe that is right around 32% (I think, I'll have to look) and they're both lovely soaps. To me anything less than 5% is why bother. I think the op needs to allow the soap to cure properly and then decide if the recipe needs tweaking. I think the lack of cure is more a concern than the recipe itself. I would use the recipe, personally.


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## shunt2011 (Jun 1, 2020)

TheGecko said:


> You can use Palm Oil, Mango Butter, Babassu Oil, Lard or Tallow.
> 
> 
> 
> Sodium Lactate is mainly used to make the soap easier to remove from the mold and is generally limited to 1 teaspoon per pound of oils.



Babassu is a replacement or can be used in conjunction with Coconut oil.  It is a cleansing oil.


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## Kathymzr (Jun 2, 2020)

I’m new at this but find Babassu oil a good addition. It adds to hardness and cleansing, and you can lower the amount of coconut oil. Another combo I like is 10,10,10 coconut, babassu, murumuru or Tuchman oils. Very cleansing but not drying.

Tucuma oil


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## Rune (Jun 2, 2020)

If your lye is 38% of oils, which is standard in most calculators, that will be quite a high amount of water, and it can make your soap soggy if you don't cure it enough. If you use 38% lye concentration (not 38% of oils), your water amount is not at all too high. But soap needs to cure anyway. The saponification process may not be complete immediately after cutting, and then the soap will be caustic and very drying for the skin. Can be dangerous too if you get it into your eyes.

Olive oil makes soap hard, but still very water soluble. If you want to use palm oil and if you have it available, that would be a very good oil to make your soap last longer (the palmitic acid in palm oil does that). Soy wax is another good alternative, it is full of stearic acid, and it will also make your soap harder and last longer. Oils high in palmitic and/or stearic acids, less water (if you use 38% of oils) and a good cure for 4 weeks or more, that could do the trick and make your soap less soggy. Plus that it must be stored between uses on something that makes your soap really dry up. I use the brush for an old school dishwashing thing (picture at at the bottom), and just turn it upside down, so that the soap rest on the brushes. That works really well, and is easy to clean. I wash the sink with it when it is dirty, rinse it, and then it is clean afterwards.

But yes, homemade soap don't behave exactly like store bought soap. Such soaps are usually made differently (extruded and pressed), plus that the glycerin is removed and some added back again, meaning less glycerin than homemade soap. Glycerin are nice for the skin, but it makes soap less tolerant to water and moisture before it gets soggy. And they are often made of 100% or near 100% palm oil (or at least a high amount of palm), which gives long lasting soaps. So it is a very different process and gives different soaps than our handmade ones. I bought one a few days ago, since I was almost out of handmade and have not made any soap for almost a year. It is called Sterilan, and I think it is a Norwegian brand. It is really good, and I like it. I love the scent of it! It smells vintage, and the color is baby blue. It is an old brand and I guess the scent have been unchanged over the years. But the soap is unfortunately slightly more drying to the skin, and it does not rinse off as easily for some reason. But otherwise a good soap, and it does not contain any detergents or anything strange, just saponified oils and the usual as colors and scents. But, homemade is more fun. Store bought is store bough and can never be as fun. But a good soap, yes, it for sure is.

Anyway, the first thing I think you should do is to cure your soaps for 4 weeks or more, as others have said. If they still gets soggy very easily, then try to include oils with a high amount of palmitic and/or stearic acids in your recipe. For example palm oil or soy wax.


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## LilianNoir (Jun 9, 2020)

amd said:


> I disagree. I use 15%shea with 5% cocoa butter in my regular recipe, and have a vegan recipe that is right around 32% (I think, I'll have to look) and they're both lovely soaps. To me anything less than 5% is why bother. I think the op needs to allow the soap to cure properly and then decide if the recipe needs tweaking. I think the lack of cure is more a concern than the recipe itself. I would use the recipe, personally.


I'm still new to soaping but so far my favorite recipe is 30% shea and it's the favorite of my friends who have been trying my soaps. Shea, coconut and olive. I've only tried 6 different recipes so far though  
That's the hardest bar I've made so far and no slimyness or anything. It was at it's best after 8 weeks tho.


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## Coldprocesssoap (Jun 10, 2020)

Thank you for all the great advice, I will let the soap cure for a lot longer!


LilianNoir said:


> I'm still new to soaping but so far my favorite recipe is 30% shea and it's the favorite of my friends who have been trying my soaps. Shea, coconut and olive. I've only tried 6 different recipes so far though
> That's the hardest bar I've made so far and no slimyness or anything. It was at it's best after 8 weeks tho.


What amount of olive oil and coconut oil (%) do you use? And it doesn’t feel drying to the skin after the 8 weeks?

Thank you all for your advise! I will let it cure longer.
I tried to cut through one of my soaps and it actually was kind of soft/dark/more wet in the middle. I guess that also is a sign that it hasn’t cured long enough? And will the softness in the middle harden if I let it cure for a longer periode of time?


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## LilianNoir (Jun 10, 2020)

Coldprocesssoap said:


> What amount of olive oil and coconut oil (%) do you use? And it doesn’t feel drying to the skin after the 8 weeks?


30% shea, 35% olive oil, 35% coconut oil

I thought it was a tad dry at about 6 weeks but by 8 weeks and beyond it's been my best bar so far. I got the recipe from the book "Smart Soapmaking" by Anne Watson. It's a good book especially for beginners. I recommend it! I'm working to reduce the coconut oil a bit since I find coconut oil to be drying.



Coldprocesssoap said:


> it actually was kind of soft/dark/more wet in the middle.


Depending on what you mean by "dark" that may be normal from partial gelling. But it shouldn't be very soft or wet in the middle. Others with  more experience can speak to what that may mean.


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## penelopejane (Jun 12, 2020)

Coldprocesssoap said:


> Thank you all for your advise! I will let it cure longer.
> I tried to cut through one of my soaps and it actually was kind of soft/dark/more wet in the middle. I guess that also is a sign that it hasn’t cured long enough? And will the softness in the middle harden if I let it cure for a longer periode of time?


I agree with Lilian - sounds like partial gel. A photo would help to identify it properly.


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## Coldprocesssoap (Jul 26, 2020)

LilianNoir said:


> 30% shea, 35% olive oil, 35% coconut oil
> 
> I thought it was a tad dry at about 6 weeks but by 8 weeks and beyond it's been my best bar so far. I got the recipe from the book "Smart Soapmaking" by Anne Watson. It's a good book especially for beginners. I recommend it! I'm working to reduce the coconut oil a bit since I find coconut oil to be drying.
> 
> ...



Thank you for inspiration! I will try to watt for 8 weeks
Is this recipe with a 5% Superfat?
Your friends don’t find the soap drying at all with the high amount of coconut Oil?


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## LilianNoir (Jul 26, 2020)

Coldprocesssoap said:


> Thank you for inspiration! I will try to watt for 8 weeks☺
> Is this recipe with a 5% Superfat?
> Your friends don’t find the soap drying at all with the high amount of coconut Oil?


Yup, 5% super fat.
I thought the initial recipe was good, but maybe slightly drying, but no one else that tried it reported that. I am finding my skin is sensitive to co. Since then I made a batch reducing coconut oil by 10% and replacing with 10% castor oil and that was absolutely fantastic. So right now I'm looking to use 30% shea, 35% olive, 25% coconut, 10% castor(or rice bran or sweet almond) as a regular formula. 

It's been about 7-8 weeks since your post. How is it now?


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## penelopejane (Jul 27, 2020)

LilianNoir said:


> Yup, 5% super fat.
> I thought the initial recipe was good, but maybe slightly drying, but no one else that tried it reported that. I am finding my skin is sensitive to co. Since then I made a batch reducing coconut oil by 10% and replacing with 10% castor oil and that was absolutely fantastic. So right now I'm looking to use 30% shea, 35% olive, 25% coconut, 10% castor(or rice bran or sweet almond) as a regular formula.
> 
> It's been about 7-8 weeks since your post. How is it now?


You might think about dropping your castor oil to 5%. Above that it can lead to sticky soap. I use a really low SF below 5% so you might think about experimenting with that too.


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## atiz (Jul 27, 2020)

You'll get a lot of different advice, so you'll just have to experiment...
I, for one, have been using castor oil at 8% and never got a sticky soap, pace penelopejane.

I do use beeswax usually around 1-2%, which I think helps. You could also experiment with soleseife (brine soap) or salt bar; those are the hardest and least sticky soaps I make, I really like them for that.

And agree -- let it cure! It will become easier as you make more soap; there will be a cured one to use.


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## LilianNoir (Jul 27, 2020)

penelopejane said:


> You might think about dropping your castor oil to 5%. Above that it can lead to sticky soap. I use a really low SF below 5% so you might think about experimenting with that too.


I don't know about the original poster, but the soap with the 10% castor isn't sticky at all. That formula is one of my favorites.


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