# What's the deal with expectations in soaping



## ulrurunaturals (Sep 21, 2018)

I've only been soaps since last August and it's been a wonderful journey. I've made over 100+ bars and have just now started using additives such as activated charcoal and recently colloidal oatmeal. and have been experimenting with natural color options such as tumeric etc. I know people want to make fancy designes etc. But why not let the soap take on a life of it's own and just be happy with the results that you get as a natural result of the wonderful chemical reaction of water and sodium Hydroxide.


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## Megan (Sep 22, 2018)

Because it's a wonderful creative outlet? Plus, even with artistic input, it still has a life of it's own, and that is really fun to see each time.


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## ulrurunaturals (Sep 22, 2018)

Megan said:


> Because it's a wonderful creative outlet? Plus, even with artistic input, it still has a life of it's own, and that is really fun to see each time.


Yes ..guess that makes sense however I like seeing the colors morph and change without a template or an expectation of what or how it will take shape.


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## cmzaha (Sep 22, 2018)

Because it is like opening up a Christmas Present


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## msunnerstood (Sep 22, 2018)

ulrurunaturals said:


> Yes ..guess that makes sense however I like seeing the colors morph and change without a template or an expectation of what or how it will take shape.


That is why there are so many wonderfully unique soaps in the world. Because each soaper brings their own style. How boring would it be if they were all alike?


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## dibbles (Sep 22, 2018)

Maybe for the same reason you decided to start playing with a little color and additives. It’s fun to try a new technique, and when something difficult to do turns out well, it is satisfying. Most of the time the results are still the soap doing what it will. Personally, I don’t think I will ever do cupcake soaps or fancy piping as that isn’t my thing. I doubt I would buy one either. But I can totally understand why someone would want to make or buy them. Everyone likes different things. I like plain soaps very much, but don’t make them often because I love playing with design. And as was already mentioned, cutting a loaf and seeing what is inside is incredibly fun. Or sometimes heartbreaking.


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## Alfa_Lazcares (Sep 22, 2018)

I think even if you try to make fancy designs the soap still will take on life on its own. There is only so much you can control when you pour the batter. And in the end the soap will do what it wants to do, you can only nudge it so much to the direction you want.


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## Relle (Sep 22, 2018)

Why make fancy designs you ask ?  
Because I can and I like the idea that I can manipulate the soap to a design I have worked out in my head, then, when it has worked out, I'm happy.


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## shunt2011 (Sep 22, 2018)

Because I like pretty soap and I alway anticipate what it’s going to look like when I cut it.   Plus my customers pick pretty colors that smell good over plain Jane soap.

And because it’s therapeutic to me to play with colors and designs.


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## ulrurunaturals (Sep 22, 2018)

Alfa_Lazcares said:


> I think even if you try to make fancy designs the soap still will take on life on its own. There is only so much you can control when you pour the batter. And in the end the soap will do what it wants to do, you can only nudge it so much to the direction you want.


Yes this is true and has always been my phylosophy.



shunt2011 said:


> Because I like pretty soap and I alway anticipate what it’s going to look like when I cut it.   Plus my customers pick pretty colors that smell good over plain Jane soap.
> 
> And because it’s therapeutic to me to play with colors and designs.


Seems u have quite the customer base. so far my customers have loved my lillac soap. With a hint of purple coloror morphing. Well my customer base is like 2 people lol



Relle said:


> Why make fancy designs you ask ?
> Because I can and I like the idea that I can manipulate the soap to a design I have worked out in my head, then, when it has worked out, I'm happy.


Yes because you are good at what you do that's why you can


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## Richard Perrine (Sep 22, 2018)

Because the users love to see the artistry, styles, diversity of bar types and creations! People are attracted to things that look attractive to their senses!


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## Relle (Sep 22, 2018)

ulrurunaturals would you like to go to the Introduction section as you are new and tell us a bit about yourself and why you got into soaping.


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## ulrurunaturals (Sep 22, 2018)

Relle said:


> ulrurunaturals would you like to go to the Introduction section as you are new and tell us a bit about yourself and why you got into soaping.



Sure I made this thread cause I really love to see the soap form a life of it's own. That's why I dont plan  .colors I do solid colors love watching the morph.


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## loriag (Sep 22, 2018)

When I first researched soaping my plan was to use mostly natural colours of the soap with just maybe a hint of colour on top. I quickly discovered that design and colours in soap were a creative outlet for me that I was missing in my life. I like people to enjoy the look, the smell and the feel of my soap.


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## Misschief (Sep 23, 2018)

loriag said:


> When I first researched soaping my plan was to use mostly natural colours of the soap with just maybe a hint of colour on top. I quickly discovered that design and colours in soap were a creative outlet for me that I was missing in my life. I like people to enjoy the look, the smell and the feel of my soap.



So much this. 

I've been a crafter for a VERY long time. I'm finding that with soap, there's never an end to the creativity. I can reproduce a soap with ease but when I want to try something different, there are so many techniques that it never gets boring. With the monthly challenges here, you're always learning something new and that's appealing, too.

Even some of my customers, to whom I've explained that some soaps are very limited edition because they're part of a soap challenge, have said they want to be the first to see what I come up with in the challenges because those are some of the most creative soaps they've ever seen.


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## msunnerstood (Sep 23, 2018)

Misschief said:


> So much this.
> 
> I've been a crafter for a VERY long time. I'm finding that with soap, there's never an end to the creativity. I can reproduce a soap with ease but when I want to try something different, there are so many techniques that it never gets boring. With the monthly challenges here, you're always learning something new and that's appealing, too.
> 
> Even some of my customers, to whom I've explained that some soaps are very limited edition because they're part of a soap challenge, have said they want to be the first to see what I come up with in the challenges because those are some of the most creative soaps they've ever seen.


Yes! I also have customers who message me in the mornings just to find out what soap and design I made the night before and asking to see pictures. Sometimes they ask questions about how I came up with the design or idea and I love talking about soap so its a win win


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## ulrurunaturals (Sep 23, 2018)

loriag said:


> When I first researched soaping my plan was to use mostly natural colours of the soap with just maybe a hint of colour on top. I quickly discovered that design and colours in soap were a creative outlet for me that I was missing in my life. I like people to enjoy the look, the smell and the feel of my soap.


For me the creative outlet is "soaping it'self" it's the whole process from mixing the lye and water to melting the oils to chealation to putting the sodium lactate and the scent  in now I'm  working on additives like colloidal oatmeal I did my first loaf a week ago can't wait to see what it lends to the soap. Before I started soaping I bought my lye  with the intention of eventually soaping it sat for approx 3 yrs before I even touched it to make my first batch of olive oil soap. now I soap at least once a month or so. Or when the soaping bug hits me.


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## Richard Perrine (Sep 23, 2018)

ulrurunaturals said:


> For me the creative outlet is "soaping it'self" it's the whole process from mixing the lye and water to melting the oils to chealation to putting the sodium lactate and the scent  in now I'm  working on additives like colloidal oatmeal I did my first loaf a week ago can't wait to see what it lends to the soap. Before I started soaping I bought my lye  with the intention of eventually soaping it sat for approx 3 yrs before I even touched it to make my first batch of olive oil soap. now I soap at least once a month or so. Or when the soaping bug hits me.


Oh, yeah! The process is definitely a motivator! I'm frequently trying new ideas, but I am also interested in how to more attractive bars! Even the bars I make for myself, it just says something more when there's craftmanship involved. The way the bars look brings another smile to one's face.


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## shunt2011 (Sep 23, 2018)

If I didn’t play with fragrance and colors or techniques, soaping would just be another chore.  I get excited when I go through my fragrances and then decide on colors and design.  I don’t do high tops nor do I add botanicals except to infuse.  I do use beer, coffee and milks.  I add charcoal, oatmeal and the occasional clay.  8 years and I still enjoy doing it.


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## ulrurunaturals (Sep 23, 2018)

Richard Perrine said:


> Oh, yeah! The process is definitely a motivator! I'm frequently trying new ideas, but I am also interested in how to more attractive bars! Even the bars I make for myself, it just says something more when there's craftmanship involved. The way the bars look brings another smile to one's face.


Yes guess that's a valid point. I tried a raw version .Of a color layer a couple of years ago. It was red and white. I call it my Christmas soap. I put about 7 essential oils in it. It made about 5 pounds of soap. My first attempt at a larger batch more complex soap. Everyone loved and it wss my first time using hydrogenated palm kernal oil. Istill have remnants of what I made. I forgot about that soap lol.


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## Habibah (Sep 23, 2018)

I don't use dyes or mica in my soap. I use the effects of Tumeric, paprika, and waiting til the last minute to add  an oil, which I fold in.  I get a variety of colors and opaque. Artistry and creativity can be anywhere.


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## jcandleattic (Sep 23, 2018)

I make "fancy designs" and fragrance oils, with micas/oxides, because my "natural" soaps do not sell. They sit there, sometimes for years, without ever even being picked up, so from a business prospective, it's not worth it for me to make natural soaps.


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## artemis (Sep 23, 2018)

Fancy designs or no, even adding turmeric and oatmeal isn't "letting the soap have a life of it's own." That, to me, we be just the "chemical reaction of water and sodium Hydroxide."

As for why not just be happy with the results: if I made a batch of cookies and they turned out awful, I would not just be happy that there was a chemical reaction and eat them anyway. I would need to find or make a better recipe or find better ingredients for next time.


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## ulrurunaturals (Sep 23, 2018)

jcandleattic said:


> I make "fancy designs" and fragrance oils, with micas/oxides, because my "natural" soaps do not sell. They sit there, sometimes for years, without ever even being picked up, so from a business prospective, it's not worth it for me to make natural soaps.


Wonderful point. Extremly valid. Actually it's a very logical reason. I just personally enjoy seeing the natural morphology of the color I use. But if you can efficiently make fancy designs that's great! And yes it's also good for business.



artemis said:


> Fancy designs or no, even adding turmeric and oatmeal isn't "letting the soap have a life of it's own." That, to me, we be just the "chemical reaction of water and sodium Hydroxide."
> 
> As for why not just be happy with the results: if I made a batch of cookies and they turned out awful, I would not just be happy that there was a chemical reaction and eat them anyway. I would need to find or make a better recipe or find better ingredients for next time.


Yes. However soaponofying is based on a chemical reaction. Which also adds to the character of the colors however everything depends on a good  base recepie from cookie baking to bread making to soap making. When I said be happy with the results I meant the results of the effect of the sodium hydroxide on the color or additive being used.


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## loriag (Sep 23, 2018)

ulrurunaturals said:


> For me the creative outlet is "soaping it'self" it's the whole process from mixing the lye and water to melting the oils to chealation to putting the sodium lactate and the scent  in now I'm  working on additives like colloidal oatmeal I did my first loaf a week ago can't wait to see what it lends to the soap. Before I started soaping I bought my lye  with the intention of eventually soaping it sat for approx 3 yrs before I even touched it to make my first batch of olive oil soap. now I soap at least once a month or so. Or when the soaping bug hits me.


I bought a stick blender about 3 years before I started soaping thinking one day I will make soap!


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## dibbles (Sep 23, 2018)

ulrurunaturals said:


> For me the creative outlet is "soaping it'self" it's the whole process from mixing the lye and water to melting the oils to chealation to putting the sodium lactate and the scent  in now I'm  working on additives like colloidal oatmeal



This is still true for me too, after 3 years and probably hundreds of batches. Watching the transformation of oil, water and lye form soap batter is always just a little magical. But why not try separating out a bit of batter to color with one of your preferred additives and try a simple in the pot swirl in your next batch. It might just add a layer of creativity to the process, and that technique still doesn’t lend to expectations of the end result. Then you might gain a better understanding of why people love trying new things. It might not change your viewpoint, but might give some perspective into your original question.


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## ulrurunaturals (Sep 23, 2018)

dibbles said:


> This is still true for me too, after 3 years and probably hundreds of batches. Watching the transformation of oil, water and lye form soap batter is always just a little magical. But why not try separating out a bit of batter to color with one of your preferred additives and try a simple in the pot swirl in your next batch. It might just add a layer of creativity to the process, and that technique still doesn’t lend to expectations of the end result. Then you might gain a better understanding of why people love trying new things. It might not change your viewpoint, but might give some perspective into your original question.


That is a great point. Now if only I knew how to do an in the pot swirl.  I know exactly what you mean. I did try layering once I fivided out 3 1 lb portions of batter and colored one red etc. I layered white red white. When I cut it it was an excellent discovery. Way unexpceted.


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## dibbles (Sep 23, 2018)

ulrurunaturals said:


> That is a great point. Now if only I knew how to do an in the pot swirl.  I know exactly what you mean. I did try layering once I fivided out 3 1 lb portions of batter and colored one red etc. I layered white red white. When I cut it it was an excellent discovery. Way unexpceted.



Do it! Get your batter to emulsion and add your fragrance if you are using any. Split off a fourth or so, it doesn’t have to be uber exact, into another cup and add your colorant. Then pour that back into the big pot of batter in one or two spots, run a spatula around the big pot ONCE, no more than twice, and pour it all into your mold. If you are using a colorant that you mix with oil, you can hold out a bit of one of your batch oils and add it proportionately to each part of the batter. There are lots of YouTube videos to watch. It was the first swirl technique I tried and very swirl novice friendly. If you try it, please post your thoughts. And a picture if you are so inclined.


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## OldHippie (Sep 23, 2018)

ulrurunaturals said:


> But why not let the soap take on a life of it's own and just be happy with the results that you get as a natural result of the wonderful chemical reaction of water and sodium Hydroxide.


Just for the record, and to avoid confusing the newbies, sodium hydroxide goes into solution with water, albeit with a great deal of enthusiasm, but there is no actual reaction between them.  The water does not participate in the saponification reaction, but merely serves as a vehicle to bring the NaOH together with the triglycerides.


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## lenarenee (Sep 23, 2018)

dibbles said:


> Do it! Get your batter to emulsion and add your fragrance if you are using any. Split off a fourth or so, it doesn’t have to be uber exact, into another cup and add your colorant. Then pour that back into the big pot of batter in one or two spots, run a spatula around the big pot ONCE, no more than twice, and pour it all into your mold. If you are using a colorant that you mix with oil, you can hold out a bit of one of your batch oils and add it proportionately to each part of the batter. There are lots of YouTube videos to watch. It was the first swirl technique I tried and very swirl novice friendly. If you try it, please post your thoughts. And a picture if you are so inclined.





ulrurunaturals said:


> That is a great point. Now if only I knew how to do an in the pot swirl.  I know exactly what you mean. I did try layering once I fivided out 3 1 lb portions of batter and colored one red etc. I layered white red white. When I cut it it was an excellent discovery. Way unexpceted.



Off Topic: I just accidentally discovered how to quote 2 people at once!  How many years have I been on this forum...??

The itp swirl was one of the last things I tried to learn - because arrogant 'ole me thought it was too easy and boring. 

I hate the itp swirl.  I still can't do it right; I have to cheat.  I've done/copied all the techniques and I still. have. to. cheat.  How? I don't use all of the colored batter that you pour in puddles in the base. I leave some to "replenish the base that's left at the bottom after pouring into the mold - otherwise I have too much mostly white base color left to pour. 

Just an fyi; I don't like wispy swirls that almost disappear into the base color, I like more definition so I go to trace to get it. However, my recipe is a slow mover that gives me enough time to dilly dally around.


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## ulrurunaturals (Sep 24, 2018)

dibbles said:


> Do it! Get your batter to emulsion and add your fragrance if you are using any. Split off a fourth or so, it doesn’t have to be uber exact, into another cup and add your colorant. Then pour that back into the big pot of batter in one or two spots, run a spatula around the big pot ONCE, no more than twice, and pour it all into your mold. If you are using a colorant that you mix with oil, you can hold out a bit of one of your batch oils and add it proportionately to each part of the batter. There are lots of YouTube videos to watch. It was the first swirl technique I tried and very swirl novice friendly. If you try it, please post your thoughts. And a picture if you are so inclined.


I will try it once I get my soaping space back right now it's being improved


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## Loralei (Sep 24, 2018)

I'm just beginning to make bars of soap, after making liquid soap for about 2 years (and some stain remover sticks, which I guess is a bar soap).. When I started making cleaning products,  I had no intention of ever making body care - I have so many friends that make amazing work! BUT... for fun, I started reading more about the process, and the oils... and now, I want to make ALL the soap, lol!! Fancy, plain, and everywhere in between!! 

I've been an artisan for years, jumping from one craft to the next... until I found this venue of unending possibilities- that's exactly why I would want to learn to make fancy soap - literally ENDLESS fun and creativity!


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## ulrurunaturals (Sep 24, 2018)

Loralei said:


> I'm just beginning to make bars of soap, after making liquid soap for about 2 years (and some stain remover sticks, which I guess is a bar soap).. When I started making cleaning products,  I had no intention of ever making body care - I have so many friends that make amazing work! BUT... for fun, I started reading more about the process, and the oils... and now, I want to make ALL the soap, lol!! Fancy, plain, and everywhere in between!!
> 
> I've been an artisan for years, jumping from one craft to the next... until I found this venue of unending possibilities- that's exactly why I would want to learn to make fancy soap - literally ENDLESS fun and creativity!


Sounds like fun...however my Initial focus was to make "functional soaps" and or medicinal soaps. And single oil soaps like olive oil. I've made saline soap salt soap pine tar soap I've also learned alot about how to improve the soap like supporting additives to help improve soap hardness etc how to chealate etc. So now I have the basics down that's why I'm moving on to adding some additives. Etc. Wanted a good foundation before I go "haywire" with the fancy designes and all. Also because I make kombucha I am now looking into making kombucha soap as well.



OldHippie said:


> Just for the record, and to avoid confusing the newbies, sodium hydroxide goes into solution with water, albeit with a great deal of enthusiasm, but there is no actual reaction between them.  The water does not participate in the saponification reaction, but merely serves as a vehicle to bring the NaOH together with the triglycerides.


However there is a reaction when. The sodium hydroxide is intoducted to the water it heats up making what's called an exothermic reaction. It heats up when. The water or liquid meets the sodium hydroxide to about 200 degrees or so. However that's assuming you are starting at room temperature with the water.


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## amd (Sep 24, 2018)

I have compared soapmaking to making a car out of a box of raisins. People look at you and say "You MADE that?" and that is how I look at designing soaps. If I can picture something in my head and get my soap to come out kind of sort of how I pictured it I am stoked. But not everyone wants to drive a car made out of raisins, so make your soaps how you want them.


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## ulrurunaturals (Sep 24, 2018)

amd said:


> I have compared soapmaking to making a car out of a box of raisins. People look at you and say "You MADE that?" and that is how I look at designing soaps. If I can picture something in my head and get my soap to come out kind of sort of how I pictured it I am stoked. But not everyone wants to drive a car made out of raisins, so make your soaps how you want them.


That's a very creative analogy. I have a phylosophy. I make soap I want to use cause I little to no customer base so when. I offer it to the public there is no expectations of selling it. I figure who ever wants any will speak up and better do so before I use it all.


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## Lin19687 (Sep 24, 2018)

ulrurunaturals said:


> I've only been soaps since last August and it's been a wonderful journey. I've made over 100+ bars and have just now started using additives such as activated charcoal and recently colloidal oatmeal. and have been experimenting with natural color options such as tumeric etc. I know people want to make fancy designes etc. But why not let the soap take on a life of it's own and just be happy with the results that you get as a natural result of the wonderful chemical reaction of water and sodium Hydroxide.


Because some just like to do different things.  And like you, start to add things to their soap.  Some do pretty, some plain, some simple and some complex.
btw, it is the OILS and sodium hydroxide, not the water.


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## ulrurunaturals (Sep 24, 2018)

Lin19687 said:


> Because some just like to do different things.  And like you, start to add things to their soap.  Some do pretty, some plain, some simple and some complex.
> btw, it is the OILS and sodium hydroxide, not the water.


Yes however for cold process soap it is acctually the water and the hydroxide that initially create the heat then are intoduced to react with the oils.



Habibah said:


> I don't use dyes or mica in my soap. I use the effects of Tumeric, paprika, and waiting til the last minute to add  an oil, which I fold in.  I get a variety of colors and opaque. Artistry and creativity can be anywhere.


I like using tumeric haven't though about paprika though


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## shunt2011 (Sep 24, 2018)

ulrurunaturals said:


> Yes however for cold process soap it is acctually the water and the hydroxide that initially create the heat then are intoduced to react with the oils.



Nope, my lye mixture is room temperature.  No heat to it when I use it.


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## ulrurunaturals (Sep 24, 2018)

shunt2011 said:


> Nope, my lye mixture is room temperature.  No heat to it when I use it.


Well then that's something I have yet to understand about that dynamic.


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## OldHippie (Sep 24, 2018)

ulrurunaturals said:


> Yes however for cold process soap it is acctually the water and the hydroxide that initially create the heat then are intoduced to react with the oils.





shunt2011 said:


> Nope, my lye mixture is room temperature.  No heat to it when I use it.


He did not say that he heated the lye, he said that the lye became heated when made it.
Perhaps you make your lye ahead of time, so it's at room temperature when you use it.


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## ulrurunaturals (Sep 24, 2018)

OldHippie said:


> He did not say that he heated the lye, he said that the lye became heated when made it.
> Perhaps you make your lye ahead of time, so it's at room temperature when you use it.


Great addition old hippie !


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## amd (Sep 24, 2018)

Right... but what was said was "...the water and the hydroxide that initially create the heat then are intoduced to react with the oils." so if the lye is allowed to cool, such as in the case with masterbatching as mentioned by Shunt, it still is not the heat creating the soap. Soap is a chemical process, simplified to acid + base = salt or oils + NaOH = soap. Liquids are merely the vehicle to combine the acids and the base. I like to think of liquids as being the + sign in the equation, not part of the equation itself.


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## shunt2011 (Sep 24, 2018)

OldHippie said:


> He did not say that he heated the lye, he said that the lye became heated when made it.
> Perhaps you make your lye ahead of time, so it's at room temperature when you use it.



He said it  heated then introduced to  react to the oils,  it doesn't have to be heated to react.   I replied to just the way it was stated and they way I understood it.  Plus you can add lye to ice cubes and never get a heated reaction either.  The heat of the lye/water has nothing to do with making soap.


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## OldHippie (Sep 24, 2018)

shunt2011 said:


> He said it  heated then introduced to  react to the oils,  it doesn't have to be heated to react.   I replied to just the way it was stated and they way I understood it.


Yeah, me too.  I think that we all know that it does not have to be heated to react.


shunt2011 said:


> Plus you can add lye to ice cubes and never get a heated reaction either.


What do you think melts the ice?


shunt2011 said:


> The heat of the lye/water has nothing to do with making soap.


Saponification ("making soap") is a time/temperature reaction, the temperature of both the oils and the lye will make a difference in how long it takes to emulsify and reach trace.


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## amd (Sep 24, 2018)

OldHippie said:


> Saponification ("making soap") is a time/temperature reaction, the temperature of both the oils and the lye will make a difference in how long it takes to emulsify and reach trace.



You're contradicting yourself in that statement. First you say saponification is a time/temperature reaction, then you end the statement by stating that the temperature will make a difference in emulsion and trace. Saponification is the chemical reaction of base + acid. Temperature is a by product of that chemical reaction. Sometimes we can influence this by adding an external influence of [more] heat.


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## dibbles (Sep 24, 2018)

Many people masterbatch the lye solution so it is ready to go when they are making soap. It's at room temperature when they use it, but initially heated up when it was mixed.


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## ulrurunaturals (Sep 24, 2018)

dibbles said:


> Many people masterbatch the lye solution so it is ready to go when they are making soap. It's at room temperature when they use it, but initially heated up when it was mixed.


So how does one masterbatch. And what are the benefits of masterbatching.


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## amd (Sep 24, 2018)

ulrurunaturals said:


> So how does one masterbatch.



The simplest way is to premix your full water amount with the lye that you need for soapmaking, and if you always use the same water % or ratio and the same oil recipe. For example using random numbers for easy math: if your regular soap batch uses 100g water and 25g lye, and you wanted to make enough solution to use for 4 batches, you would mix 400g water and 100g lye. Then when you make 1 batch of soap you would measure 125g of your solution (water amount + lye amount). Obviously you want to use your real numbers from your recipe, not the numbers I made up here. 

The other way to do it, if you use different water % or ratios in different recipes or different oil recipes, is to mix a 1:1 solution of lye and water. I only do water to lye ratios, so if you use water %, I can't really help you but someone else will chime in and explain it to you. So like the example above using random made up numbers: If you wanted to make 4 batches of soap you would measure 100g water and 100g lye to get a 1:1 solution, also called a 50/50 solution. For making soap - for the first batch lets say you want to do a 2:1 ratio needing 25g lye and 50g water - you would measure 50g of the solution (25g lye needed for the recipe + 25g water) and add 25g water to get the correct amount for soap. Batch two you want to do a different oil recipe that needs 30g lye and a 3:1 ratio, so you would measure 60g of solution (30g lye + 30g water) and then add 60g water to get the total 90g water needed.

When I first started making soap, I used water %, and couldn't wrap my head around masterbatching. When I switched to water to lye ratio, and understood that lye needs an equal amount of water to dissolve, it started to click. I've been masterbatching successfully for 4 months now and will probably never go back! (Well, successfully except for one batch last week, which I have troubleshooted as a bad batch of lye - the bottle had a huge clump in it, so I suspect that moisture weakened the entire bottle. But this is slightly off topic...)


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## Lin19687 (Sep 24, 2018)

I am so done reading this thread...................


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## SaltedFig (Sep 24, 2018)

ulrurunaturals said:


> Yes however for cold process soap it is acctually the water and the hydroxide that initially create the heat then are intoduced to react with the oils.





shunt2011 said:


> Nope, my lye mixture is room temperature.  No heat to it when I use it.





ulrurunaturals said:


> Well then that's something I have yet to understand about that dynamic.



@ulrurunaturals
There are two main exothermic (heat generating) chemical reactions in CP/HP soapmaking.

The first exothermic reaction is between the hydroxide and the water: Your lye gets hot.

The second exothermic reaction occurs when you add your lye to your fats: Your soap batter gets warm (or hot, depending on recipe and technique).

Shunt2011 (and others ) can use masterbatch/room temperature lye to make soap, because lye doesn't need to be hot for saponification to work.
One of the reasons I like starting with cooler lye is because it slows down saponification a little (a useful understanding when creating soapy designs/art ).


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## cmzaha (Sep 24, 2018)

Because they can be similar to looking at Rorschach Ink Blots. I love to see what I can find in a swirl and some of my customers also buy soaps for the color to display them. After several years of soaping I still get excited to cut my loaf and see what is inside. I do not have time anymore to play with special pours but I still love lots of pretty swirls


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## OldHippie (Sep 24, 2018)

amd said:


> You're contradicting yourself in that statement


Actually, I'm not. We're talking about two different sources of heat.  In addition, I don't think that I like your tone.  I'm frankly tired of your picayune responses.  Seems like trolling to me.


amd said:


> First you say saponification is a time/temperature reaction, then you end the statement by stating that the temperature will make a difference in emulsion and trace. Saponification is the chemical reaction of base + acid. Temperature is a by product of that chemical reaction. Sometimes we can influence this by adding an external influence of [more] heat.


Yes, in this case, the addition of heat is from the hot lye.  Others understood the reference, too bad you couldn't.


SaltedFig said:


> @ulrurunaturals
> There are two main exothermic (heat generating) chemical reactions in CP/HP soapmaking.
> 
> The first exothermic reaction is between the hydroxide and the water: Your lye gets hot.
> ...





Lin19687 said:


> I am so done reading this thread...................


 I know that's right.


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## ulrurunaturals (Sep 25, 2018)

SaltedFig said:


> @ulrurunaturals
> There are two main exothermic (heat generating) chemical reactions in CP/HP soapmaking.
> 
> The first exothermic reaction is between the hydroxide and the water: Your lye gets hot.
> ...


Yes this makes more sense to me now. I've always known about the 2 reactions however not in the context of soaponification control in creating intentional soapy designs. Thanks to everyone who has taken the time out to help a "young" soaper understand more about this endless process we call soap making.


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## Chris_S (Sep 25, 2018)

Because I am 100% jelious of how good other people's soaps are I see them and think I can't do anything that good yet but then I can try anyways and hope it looks good to me it's like a baby is never ugly to it's family even if it turned green and sweated yellow slime it would still be beautiful. Soap is my imagination going crazy trying to better my last attempt can't beat a bit of self competition. Plus I love the shiney shiney of mica it entertains me and sends me into a trace and to a world of awesome twin horned unicorns and pink sparkly single coloured rainbows.


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## ulrurunaturals (Sep 25, 2018)

Chris_S said:


> Because I am 100% jelious of how good other people's soaps are I see them and think I can't do anything that good yet but then I can try anyways and hope it looks good to me it's like a baby is never ugly to it's family even if it turned green and sweated yellow slime it would still be beautiful. Soap is my imagination going crazy trying to better my last attempt can't beat a bit of self competition. Plus I love the shiney shiney of mica it entertains me and sends me into a trace and to a world of awesome twin horned unicorns and pink sparkly single coloured rainbows.


True statement yes I can try at least and at least I can use it myself of no one else likes it. Yes it's my baby and I'm gonna keep it!


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## amd (Sep 25, 2018)

Lin19687 said:


> I am so done reading this thread...................


I'm going to second that.


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## cmzaha (Sep 25, 2018)

OldHippie said:


> Actually, I'm not. We're talking about two different sources of heat.  In addition, I don't think that I like your tone.  I'm frankly tired of your picayune responses.  Seems like trolling to me.
> Yes, in this case, the addition of heat is from the hot lye.  Others understood the reference, too bad you couldn't.
> 
> I know that's right.


Amd does not troll and at the end of the day does it really matter. Soap can be made with hot or cold NaOH and it does heat on it's own during saponification


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## ulrurunaturals (Sep 25, 2018)

amd said:


> I'm going to second that.


Can I get an Amen!


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## msunnerstood (Sep 26, 2018)

amd said:


> I'm going to second that.


 Dang it I hate going 3rd


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