# What to do when you cannot find usage rate...



## makemineirish (Mar 19, 2017)

I found an ingredient that I want to use, but am hesitant to do so given my inability thus far to find a credible source (or even a sketchy one) citing safe usage rates and contraindications.  The ingredient is Oakwood (NOT oakmoss) absolute.  It is not listed on IFRA's website and I have not found it referenced in any of my texts.  Despite being a reputable vendor, the supplier does not provide guidelines on their site.  I called to question a customer representative, only to be told that she was not a trained herbalist and forbidden from discussing "dosages".  I sent emails to both the vendor and IFRA, but am not sure when (or IF) I'll hear back from either entity.

To be clear, I do not sell.  I wanted the oakwood absolute to scent products for my own personal use.  If any of you have any suggestions for a helpful resource that I have yet to avail myself of or anecdotal experience to share, I would love to hear it.

Thanks in advance for any help.


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## lsg (Mar 19, 2017)

Ask your supplier for a Fact Sheet for the product.  The fact sheet should contain the description,  INCI nameof the product, the CAS numbers, properties, usage rate and applications (what the product is used in).
Eden Botanicals is a great source of essential oils, absolutes etc. and they the suggested usage rate for the product they sell.

Here is their link on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=185221541608181&story_fbid=600561196740878


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## cmzaha (Mar 19, 2017)

^^^The link goes to Oakmoss Absolute not Oakwood Absolute


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## IrishLass (Mar 19, 2017)

I couldn't find any safety info about it online or in any of my reference books either. I hoped to at least find a mention of it in the most recently updated edition of Tisserand/Young's Essential Oil Safety book that I recently bought, but nope, not a peep about it. 

I've personally never used oakwood absolute and so I have no anecdotal experiences share, but hypothetically speaking, if I were going to use it I most likely would start out with 2% or less, based on the safe 'general usage' rates for EOs that I found here: http://aromaweb.com/articles/dilutingessentialoils.asp , but that's just me. I should point out I'm far from being an expert on such things (still learning).


IrishLass


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## lsg (Mar 19, 2017)

cmzaha said:


> ^^^The link goes to Oakmoss Absolute not Oakwood Absolute



 I see what you mean when I click on their link in facebook, it goes to oakmoss.
Here is more info.:  https://hermitageoils.com/product/english-oakwood-co2-select/


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## cmzaha (Mar 19, 2017)

lsg said:


> I tried the link twice and both times it show oakwood absolute.  They suggest 4%-5% usage rate.
> 
> Try this link:  https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=Eden Botanicals and oakwood absolute


I got to the fb page but found nothing that states the useage, so I followed the fb page to the website and no oakwood. Maybe I am missing something or simply cannot read.  I cannot imagine using an absolute at the rate of 4-5%, but what do I know...


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## DeeAnna (Mar 19, 2017)

Yep, my results are the same as Carolyn's. It says oakWOOD on the FB page, and the link on FB is coded to go to oakWOOD --->

.../products/essential-oils-pure-therapeutic-grade/essential-oils-o-p/oakWOOD-absolute-50.html

...but the oakWOOD link redirects to the oakMOSS listing on the Eden Botanical website. And a search for oakWOOD on the website comes up blank. Go figure.


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## lsg (Mar 19, 2017)

Yes, I found that out.  Here is something else I came up with

" Absolutes and concretes are potentially dangerous as
they have not all been tested on the skin (Lis-Balchin,1999a).
 Many solvent extracts are sensitisers (IFRA)
and are usually used in lower percentages in all perfumes
and cosmetic products. About 4% is the usual
recommendation (ISA, 1993): except for neroli, lavender,
hyacinth, benzoin (strong sensitiser), myrrh,
olibanum at about 8%, also mastic although it is a
strong sensitiser and causes irritation. Genet is used at
12% and vanilla at 10%. The absolutes and concretes
of verbena are decreased to 2% and tobacco leaf to
1%. Some have not been tested for toxicity dermally,
e.g. violet leaf, honeysuckle, orris, narcissus,  mimosa,
but are used at about 1–2% in perfumes."

Source:  http://www.pharmpress.com/files/docs/aromascich07.pdf


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## lsg (Mar 19, 2017)

Aura Cacia suggests using 1%-3% essential oils in body care products.  As absolutes may be much more concentrated, I would suggest using maybe .5%-1%.  I am not a chemist, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt.:wink:

https://www.auracacia.com/community/essential-oil/blending-and-diluting


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## makemineirish (Mar 19, 2017)

I appreciate all of your attempts to ferret out this information.  I had hoped that someone with different reference books than I have might be able to provide me with some direction.

The vendor site carrying the oakWOOD absolute is Mountain Rose Herbs.  I find them to be pricey for many of my standard purchases, but have the perception (fair or not) that they are reputable.  

Therefore, I was all the more flummoxed at the lack of information that the customer service rep provided.  Her actual advice to me was to "Google it".  I am not knocking the internet as a resource, but think that there is a big difference between consulting IFRA and getting guidance from a self-proclaimed "expert" on Reddit. 

My hope is that SOMEONE at the company has done research on the product being sold and will email me back, at a bare minimum, with where the information can be found.


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 19, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> Yep, my results are the same as Carolyn's. It says oakWOOD on the FB page, and the link on FB is coded to go to oakWOOD ---
> 
> ...but the oakWOOD link redirects to the oakMOSS listing on the Eden Botanical website. And a search for oakWOOD on the website comes up blank. Go figure.


Yes, my results are the same as Carolyn's and DeeAnna's.  Weird! 

Then I found this on a perfumer's site... worth a read?
Oakwood Absolute, Latin _Quercus robur_
MANUFACTURER: Biolandes (France)

http://evocativeperfumes.com/blog/?p=35


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## makemineirish (Mar 19, 2017)

CeeMoor said:


> ...I found this on a perfumer's site... worth a read?
> Oakwood Absolute, Latin _Quercus robur_
> MANUFACTURER: Biolandes (France)
> 
> http://evocativeperfumes.com/blog/?p=35



That blog post was one of the resources that aroused my curiosity about oakwood absolute to begin with!  I hoped that Biolandes would have information aboutthis resinoid, but they no longer appear to carry it.


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## SheLion (Mar 19, 2017)

I am not anywhere close to an expert on this but since the wood used to make the absolute is the same used to make wine barrels that makes me think that it should be relatively safe since any compounds in the wood can be absorbed into a product that will be consumed. In fact, I would think that the solvent used in extraction would be more harmful than the wood compounds, but that's just personal conjecture on my part. Since soap is a wash-off product, I would think that up to a 10% usage would be fine. (But again, I am not in any way, shape, or form an expert.) If Mountain Rose Herbs can provide a fact sheet or MSDS that lists the active compounds, you can always research the compound groups and make an educated guess based on that.

I've not dealt with them but Mountain Rose Herbs does have a good reputation for quality products so the response you got from their rep is quite off-putting. Just goes to show that quality product and good customer service don't always go hand in hand.

If you're not already familiar, this is a good site for EO information:
http://www.usingeossafely.com/

Oakwood is not mentioned anywhere, I checked, but she does offer a PDF that gives a good overview of the various compound groups found in EOs.


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## SheLion (Mar 19, 2017)

Ok, this may or may not be helpful but I found a recipe for beard oil with oakwood absolute in it, on the Mountain Rose Herbs blog as a matter of fact. The recipe uses a 7% dilution of essential oils, and of that, 40% is oakwood absolute. Now while this is a product for hair, applying it means you still have the oil on your hands and it will be absorbed into the skin. Based on that, I personally would feel comfortable using it at up to the 10% I mentioned previously. 

Here's the blog post:https://blog.mountainroseherbs.com/beard-oil-recipe


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## Soapmaker145 (Mar 19, 2017)

makemineirish said:


> To be clear, I do not sell.  I wanted the oakwood absolute to scent products for my own personal use.  If any of you have any suggestions for a helpful resource that I have yet to avail myself of or anecdotal experience to share, I would love to hear it.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any help.



When in doubt, follow the money straight to the people who put the IFRA standards in place.  If you didn't find a listing for Oakwood, then my suggestion is not to use it.  You're safer using an FO to get the scent you want.


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## makemineirish (Mar 19, 2017)

Soapmaker145 said:


> When in doubt, follow the money straight to the people who put the IFRA standards in place.  If you didn't find a listing for Oakwood, then my suggestion is not to use it.  You're safer using an FO to get the scent you want.



I agree...if I cannot find information regarding safe usage.  The irony is that I stumbled onto the oakwood absolute when it was suggested by TheDragonGirl in a thread asking for oak FO suggestions (http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=62879).  

I was having trouble finding an oak/wood-centric FO.  All of those that I had found were heavily doctored with florals, spices, or fruits, often relegating the oak to the background. 

...and around I go.
:headbanging:


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## WeaversPort (Mar 20, 2017)

I don't know if any of these leads might help? 

http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/ex1685201.html

Unfortunately I can sympathize with Mountain Rose Herbs. If I recall they used to have a lot more herbal information on their website in general. With the overall lack of data they now offer, I imagine they've gotten bitten by the FDA, and can't legally make recommendations regarding usage ratee. While we know it is "just for soaps", I'd probably have been just as cagey. Unfortunately, it doesn't help you and just frustrates you with the company.


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