# How much water?



## Cookie (Nov 22, 2014)

I'm very new to soap making, I did a soap making course and am getting prepared to make my first batch, lots of reading and getting equipment together.   I'm beginning to get my head around the science of it. I'm currently looking at soapcalc and mms lye calculator. I'm confused about why it doesn't actually tell you how much water to use, rather you are given a range. How do you know how much water to use?  Just start with middle of the range? Any help gratefully appreciated.


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## snappyllama (Nov 22, 2014)

On soapcalc: after you click "Calculate Recipe", Click "View or Print Recipe".  A separate window will open with your water, lye, and oil amounts. For a first recipe, I'd stick with 38% Water as percentage of oils amount. It's the default on SoapCalc.  Good luck!


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## Cookie (Nov 22, 2014)

Thanks, much appreciated. I want to do the simplest thing for my first go


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## CaraBou (Nov 22, 2014)

That was good advice from snappylama.  Most of us here refer to SoapCalc's default of 38% water as "full water."  Using full water will slow down trace for you and give you some time between when you first see trace and when the batter is too gloppy to get in the mold without accidentally getting air pockets, or being able to fully mix in your fragrance (and later, colorants too).  So it's a great place to start until you sort of get things figured out. What kind of mold will you be using?  If it's silicone, you may need longer than 24 hours before the soap is firm enough to unmold if you use full water.  If you haven't figured it out yet, patience is a virtue with soaping.  But you can whine to the rest of us -- we all understand!

Welcome to the addiction, it's a lot of fun around here.


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## Cookie (Nov 22, 2014)

Hi, thanks for the help. I'm using a wood mold which I will line, can I use baking paper? I'm in Australia and just need to check if terms are the same. I want to add one essential oil blend and one colour. I'm going to use the recipe we were given at the class I went to.  How quickly after I first see trace does the essential oil and colour need to be added?  Does the trace process continue as you're adding the colour etc?  I guess I'm worried that I won't realise I'm at trace and not add things quickly enough

This is the recipe, does it look ok?  I ran it through mms and it looks ok from what I can tell. I have dry skin, so prefer something not too drying.

Vegetable soap
280 grams olive oil
112 grams coconut oil
112 grams sunflower oil
69.40 grams sodium hydroxide 
150 grams of water


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## JustBeachy (Nov 22, 2014)

I prefer freezer paper, but I've used a lot of baking(parchment) paper as well. It works fine. 

I'd up the water a bit, if its your first batch. You could take it up to 175 to 190 gr of water easy. It will give you a little time to play with the trace. Lather isn't going to be super, but it looks like the cleansing is low enough to not dry you out. 

If it's a recipe you're comfortable with, I'd say make it. There's enough anxiety during your first batch without adding more to it. The main thing is to get a batch done, learn how the trace looks, etc. 

I've recently started adding my scent to the oils and stirring, before I dump in the lye. Just a lot easier, especially with troublesome scents. Then just mix a bit, and dump in your color. With one color, no swirls, it really doesn't have to wait till trace. 

good luck, we're rooting for you.


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## Cookie (Nov 23, 2014)

Thanks for the advice and support....I'm just waiting for my thermometers to arrive then I'm ready to go


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## Susie (Nov 23, 2014)

Make sure it is parchment paper, and not wax paper.  One will work fine, the other...not so much.

And welcome to the addiction!


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## Cookie (Nov 23, 2014)

Thanks 

I remember reading somewhere, it wasn't here, that a good way to line wood molds is with laminated sheets because they can be re used. I have a home laminator and some A4 sheets so guess I can do that. Anyone done this?


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## Susie (Nov 23, 2014)

I can't help you on the laminated ones.(Yes, I remember it also, but can't find it.)  But the process was similar to this, if I recall correctly.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WROwJjJ-frg[/ame]


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## Cookie (Nov 23, 2014)

Thanks Susie, that's great


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## Jstar (Nov 26, 2014)

Yup, I do same as JB. 

Welcome to the addiction, and we're here for you..just remember to be calm and breathe..you will do fine


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## Cookie (Nov 26, 2014)

Jstar said:


> Yup, I do same as JB.
> 
> Welcome to the addiction, and we're here for you..just remember to be calm and breathe..you will do fine



Thanks, that made me laugh!  I think I've done a decent amount of research and as much as I'd rather use fragrance and colour in my first batch, I've been convinced that I should just do a very plain soap first up.

Hanging out for the thermometers to arrive!


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## Cookie (Nov 26, 2014)

Still waiting on thermometer......grrr.......can  I ask another question while I wait?  This is the recipe I'm going to use after I doubled it and ran it through soapcalc.  Should I be concerned that the iodine is 7 above the suggested range? 

Sorry, second question.  Original recipe for 500g soap called for 150g water which seemed low according to your kind feedback   I will go with full water but I also wanted to make a kilo bar.  i doubled the oils and let soapcalc tell me how much water and lye to use.  The water weight came out as 83grams more than just doubling the water weight in the original recipe. That makes sense to me because the original recipe was low in water

But I don't understand what soapcalc tells me that the size of my finished soap would be 1.5 kilos. Surely it should be closer to 1.1 kilos?  Or am I just reading soapcalc wrong?  

Thanks for your time


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## JustBeachy (Nov 26, 2014)

You've got 1008 gr of oils, 383 gr of water and the lye. Looks about right to me. Some of the water will evaporate during the cure, but what it's telling you is what it's going to be going into the mold. 

I've never been a big fan of the INS and Iodine numbers on soapcalc. What it's telling you in the soap calc is that you have a lot of unsaturated fats and that your soap is projected to be on the soft side. You're pretty high in the recipe for olive and sunflower, which should make an initially softer bar and take longer to cure.


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## Susie (Nov 26, 2014)

That's about right.  I usually estimate my batch weight to be 1.5 times my oil weight.  Not perfect, but close enough.


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## Jstar (Nov 26, 2014)

Cookie said:


> Thanks, that made me laugh!  I think I've done a decent amount of research and as much as I'd rather use fragrance and colour in my first batch, I've been convinced that I should just do a very plain soap first up.
> 
> Hanging out for the thermometers to arrive!



Yup, plain at first is the best way, for a few batches..that way you will learn what the soap does, and how it behaves or changes when you finally start adding colors and FO's/EO's

Once you have it tackled, there is no end to the things you will be finding to put in your soap...{heh, check out the rest of the threads around here for all kinds of concoctions}

Glad I gave you a laugh..I'm here most days


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## Cookie (Nov 26, 2014)

Zippedy do dah!!  The thermometers have just arrived. As soon as I've got the washing out of the machine I'm soaping!  The kitchen is ready....

Thanks for all the advice, I'll let you know how I go


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 27, 2014)

Enjoy!


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## Cookie (Nov 27, 2014)

Hmmm, that was a learning experience!  Some things I did well, some things I did not!  The things that didn't go well happened after I had mixed the sodium hydroxide, so it thought I might as well continue. 

First of all, never assume that just because you usually have lots of olive oil on hand that you will when you want to make soap (note to self) I needed 560g and it turned out that I had less than half that   so my recipe ended up being the attached, rather than what I originally planned.  It's obviously not going to be bubbly or creamy.  Silly, I thought I had checked olive oil stock. 

Second, my digital scale died on me after I had weighed the sodium hydroxide. So my oil is weighed out on my regular scale, which is fine for cooking, but isn't suitable for soap making.

Third, my sodium hydroxide cooled really quickly for some reason.  The coconut oil was already liquid because it had melted last week when we had a really hot day and hadn't solidified again yet. So I weighed the oils as best I could and heated them to the same temp as the sodium hydroxide mix. But they were both only at 58 degrees Celsius and I've read that both should normally  be around 100 degrees.  

On the positive side, I prepared my area and lined my mold well, and the coverings I put in place worked well. Mixing the sodium hydroxide in the water went smoothly and although it took awhile I saw light and medium trace. It was like a thick custard when I poured it into the mould. I wrapped it in a towel and put it in the laundry. 

I'm kind of glad that I'm going away for a few days tomorrow so I won't have time to think to much about it, or obsessively check it 

I guess because I wasn't able to weigh accurately it's going to be up in the air whether or not it will be usable. Should I leave it for 4 weeks to cure after cutting, or do you think it should be longer. 

Thanks everyone I really appreciate all the help


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Nov 27, 2014)

You do not want them at 100 degrees CELSIUS! Even for many soapers, 60 Celsius is too hot. 

Sorry it didn't all go to plan, but it's one reason why it's better to go simple at the start. 

I have to say, though, for all the time you were waiting on the thermometers you could have checked the scale power and stocks of oils to make sure. I keep all my soaping ingredients apart from the kitchen stuff so that I know for sure how much I have - my oils for soaping are just my oils for soaping. 

The next one will be better, I am sure

Eta -

Looking at the recipe, it might well need a while in the mould with the high amounts of soft oils.


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## Cookie (Nov 27, 2014)

Thanks for the feedback.  Don't know how I got mixed up with the temperatures 
I hadn't thought about keeping the oils separate from my cooking oils, I was so focused on making sure that I have separate jugs etc. and a place to store them away from the rest of my kitchen things. Thanks for the suggestion.  The scale was a new one, bought for soap making because I didn't have a digital one. I did test it beforehand and it seemed fine........I won't be in a hurry to unmold it :shifty:

Thanks,again, much appreciated


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## Susie (Nov 27, 2014)

You may also want to think about adding either lard, palm, or tallow to add to the hardness and conditioning.  Or substitute in some shea or cocoa butter.  And keep your coconut oil at 20% or lower until you get the hang of fine tuning your superfat to exactly what you like.


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## Cookie (Nov 27, 2014)

Thanks Susie, I will keep it in mind when I brave my next batch

Just pleased not to be advised to give up 

Thank you all for being so welcoming and generous with your time


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## Susie (Nov 27, 2014)

Honey, every last one of us have had situations like that.  That is how we learn.  Trial and error.  I can promise you I have made every error in the book.  But I learned better, and will continue to make more errors and learn from them as I try new things.  One of the wonderful things about this forum is that when we mess up, we can get help, and others can learn from our mistakes.


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## JustBeachy (Nov 27, 2014)

I think it was a great first outing. On the fly improvising, equipment malfunctions, temperatures moving differently. haha. You got to experience a lot of the things that can and do go wrong. People can explain the problems and the process as in depth as can be, but until you actually do it, experience it, the process is just information on a piece of paper. 

Go away for a few days, come back and unmold your soap. Zap test it and if all tests ok, let it cure.  Craig is right, it's probably going to need a long cure, but you will now have something to compare your next batches to.

Great job.


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## Cookie (Nov 27, 2014)

Oh, you guys are very kind, thanks so much :grin::clap:


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## Jstar (Nov 28, 2014)

Hehe, see I told ya to breathe :wink: 

You def experienced various issues that can arise, even when you plan everything out..there is always that..something..that happens..but now you know its not so scary and you did a good job on rolling with it, and not giving up..good job!

Btw, we wont ever tell you to just give up and quit..we love it when others succeed


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## Cookie (Nov 28, 2014)

Thanks Jstar, yep you told me to breathe.....

Thanks for the support!  It really does make a difference. 

I had a quick peek at it before I left home this morning.  There was a bit of white spotting in the middle but mostly it looked pretty good. It was only 12 hours since making it so I left it alone and will get back to it in a few days. It might be ash? Will post a pic when I've cut it and zap tested.


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## navigator9 (Nov 28, 2014)

Every batch is a learning experience, and it looks like you learned some valuable lessons. We don't suggest that newbies make plain soap to be mean. You can see now that there are plenty of things to keep track of when you're starting out, without having to worry about fragrance and color, right? But the good thing about mistakes is that they are great teachers. I bet you never again start a batch of soap without checking first to make sure you have enough of the oils you need! 

And Susie is right, those of us who've been soaping a while, have probably made every mistake in the book. So don't dwell on this batch.......start planning your next!


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## Cookie (Nov 30, 2014)

navigator9 said:


> I bet you never again start a batch of soap without checking first to make sure you have enough of the oils you need



That's for sure!  Thanks Navigator9 :grin:

When I got home tonight I unmolded and cut the soap which went smoothly.  It was in the mold for 3 days. But it doesn't pass the zap test. Is it worth letting it cure in hopes that it will then be ok?


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## Susie (Nov 30, 2014)

Yes, let it cure another couple of days or so.


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## Cookie (Nov 30, 2014)

Thanks Susie


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## KatieShephard (Nov 30, 2014)

So the real question is...what are your plans for batch #2?


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## Cookie (Nov 30, 2014)

:clap: Hahahaa, thanks that made me laugh!:wave:
To make the same recipe with the proper ingredients and working equipment :crazy::wink:


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## Susie (Nov 30, 2014)

Good plan!


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## Cookie (Dec 20, 2014)

Hi Everyone,

Although I knew that this batch of soap would probably end up in the bin I decided to let it cure to see how it changes as it hardens. Every now and then I've been zap testing it and it's always failed.  I did it again today and no zap!  Is it actually possible that it might be ok to use when it's taken 3 weeks to pass the zap test?

Thanks :grin:


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 20, 2014)

It is possible - 

There was a crazy (crazy good!) thread with a VERY lye heavy Castile, where the soap was left and the excess lye reacted with the air to neutralise over time.  That soap had a large amount of water which helped to migrate the lye to the outside of the soap where it could react.  It was extremely interesting, I must say.


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## Cookie (Dec 20, 2014)

Cool, thanks very much :grin:

I think if I knew how much chemistry was involved at the beginning I may not have started but I'm hooked now. And determined to get it right!  And it appeals to the logical side of my brain as well as the creative.  Yep, very interesting!


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## Cookie (Jan 4, 2015)

Just had to say I've been using one of these cakes of soap for the past few days.....so nice to use something I've made from scratch. It cured for five weeks and is nice and bubbly. :smile:


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## Captivating (Jan 4, 2015)

Congrats on your first soap turning out so nicely afterall


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## Cookie (Jan 4, 2015)

Thanks :wave:


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