# How to use these natural colorants in HP



## Dawni (Jan 21, 2019)

So my dad gave me a rather big bunch of powders and oils from Pakistan and I wanted to test some that I know are natural colorants.

I HP about 99% of the time. Only my soleseifes are CP because I failed those so badly when I tried to HP them lol.

I am wondering, since the soap cooks before adding color (assuming you're using more than one), if they'd all work if I dissolve the powders in oil or water and then add to the batter after cooking? As opposed to adding to lye water, or total oils, if making a solid colored soap.

Also, which ones go in water and which in oil? I've read a couple of sites that give these in a list but I wanted to double check with you pretty, and handsome, people with all your experience.

These are the powders I have:
1. Indigo - surprised me coz the powder is green not blue at all
2. Ratanjot (actual root and powder), which I think is similar to Alkanet?
3. Red sandalwood
4. Madder root (actual root and powder)

These were all bought from the local market there so tracking down suppliers will be almost impossible. Also, none are available where I am so I don't wanna waste these.

And oh, I also have Licorice root powder and not sure yet what benefits it's reputed to impart to soap. Has anyone tried this?

I know most prefer CP and might now have a lot of experience in HP but any and all input will be appreciated. Thank you!


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## Zing (Jan 21, 2019)

I have absolutely no input but so intrigued.  Keep us posted with pictures!


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## szaza (Jan 21, 2019)

Hey Dawni! 

This is a great source of information about coloring soap naturally:
https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/join-jo-coloring-soap-naturally/
https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/join-jo-how-to-make-infusions-for-soapmaking/
https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/join-jo-how-to-use-plant-infusions-in-soapmaking/
https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/join-jo-using-natural-colorants-in-soap-with-your-lye-solution/
About purple soap
https://www.lovinsoap.com/2017/06/g...king-troubleshooting-and-tips-by-jo-haslauer/
About indigo:
https://www.greatcakessoapworks.com...how-to-use-indigo-to-color-cold-process-soap/
And soapqueens natural color rainbow:
https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/natural-colorant-rainbow-cold-process-soap/

Of the powders you have, I've only been able to get my hands on indigo.
Indigo and madder are recommended to use in the lye solution, though I've seen people add them as powder dispersed in oil at trace as well. 
Gromwell is indeed supposed to be like alkanet and is recommended to use infused in oil. Soapqueen used alkanet as powder dispersed in oil at trace, but when I tried that, my soap turned brown in stead of purple.. but maybe gromwell is different?

Most natural colors need te gel to get a nice color. (Though I've had ungelled indigo that turned out fine, even when added at trace,so I'm guessing it'll be fine to add afrer cook)
You could do cpop if you want to use different colors, or what I do is I HP in the oven and use 2 (or 3) seperate bowls with the different colors..

Have fun experimenting!


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## Dawni (Jan 21, 2019)

szaza said:


> You could do cpop if you want to use different colors, or what I do is I HP in the oven and use 2 (or 3) seperate bowls with the different colors..
> 
> Have fun experimenting!


Thanks @szaza. I've read all of those and kept them for reference, since they're geared towards CP more, and I HP.

I know recipes are interchangeable, but I was wondering if natural colorants might work differently, given that in CP you color while saponification hasn't "completed" and in HP that process is fast forwarded and then you color. 

Or am I overthinking this? Haha

When you HP in the oven, do you dump the powders/colors in the separate bowls? Or do you use infused oils? Infused water? Or do you just wet the powder with a little water or oil and dump them in the bowls?


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## szaza (Jan 21, 2019)

Dawni said:


> When you HP in the oven, do you dump the powders/colors in the separate bowls? Or do you use infused oils? Infused water? Or do you just wet the powder with a little water or oil and dump them in the bowls?


It depends on the colorant.. it does make it a lot more difficult! Basically I make different batches of soap at the same time and then mix them in a swirl after the cook.

About your first question.. I don't expect there to be a big difference between cpop and HP soap with natural colorants (as long as it's gelled I guess it's ok) though I don't have enough experimental experience to back that up. Maybe someone else?


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## Dawni (Jan 21, 2019)

Zing said:


> I have absolutely no input but so intrigued.  Keep us posted with pictures!


I will try n take lots of pictures. I am getting the feeling I'll have to experiment a lot with these and just be pleasantly surprised at the outcomes lol

As long as they make usable soap I guess.........


szaza said:


> About your first question.. I don't expect there to be a big difference between cpop and HP soap with natural colorants (as long as it's gelled I guess it's ok) though I don't have enough experimental experience to back that up. Maybe someone else?


I've not tried CPOP but I'm guessing soap goes into the oven already in the mold nd colored, then gelled in there, yes? Whereas in HP it'll be gelled before you add color, if like me, you can only cook one batch at a time and need to separate the batter to add different colors.
Thanks for your input, I have to reread your earlier post and make sure all the thoughts in my head are straight hehehe


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## szaza (Jan 21, 2019)

Hmm yes if you add the colors after cook there will be a difference..
Obviously it's a lot easier to add powder dispersed in oil after cook. I think it'll work, but I also think you'll get nicer results (less speckled/scrubby) and you'll need to use less of the powders when you cook the soap with the colorants using infusions or adding colorants to lye water.
One thing that might work is make soap with 15-20% gromwell infusion and after cook add some indigo dispersed in oil to part of the batter to get a darker purple swirl..? Might also work with madder dispersed in oil.. I haven't tried it yet.
I also think some people use a divider in a crock pot to cook 2 or more batches at the same time.. you could for example split you oils and lye water in 2, add indigo to one part of the lye water and madder to the other part of the lye water. Mix with oils in 2 separate containers to create 2 batches and cook with a divider in the crockpot.
Same thing works with oil infusions. Separate lye and plain oils, add infused oils to separate pots of plain oils, add lye and cook with a divider.
I don't remember where I read about the divider but I think it was on this forum.


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## Dawni (Jan 21, 2019)

I completely forgot about the divider. I think I read that here as well.. I'll go check what I can use for inside my cooker. Thanks for reminding me!

If someone else has ideas to share, they're more than welcome... In case I can't find a divider lol


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## ShannonAll (Jan 21, 2019)

Hi Dawni
I've tried alkanet, madder and indigo (green and blue) in both oil infusion and just mixed into the lye. The green indigo might be the kind used for coloring hair (mine was anyway).  It stayed green in the infusion and in the finished cp soap. Blue indigo added to lye gave me a pretty Robin's egg blue.
Alkanet infusion turned a muddy purple but when I used the infused oil and alkanet added to the lye, my soap was a pretty deep purple/blue. 
I tried the same thing with the madder root. Infused in oil and added powder to the lye. The soap was a pretty pink.
I only have the alkanet and madder photo.  
Shannon


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## Dawni (Jan 21, 2019)

Ooh very pretty @ShannonAll! And thank you  

Too bad bout the Indigo, I was thinking I finally got my hands on some and now I find it might not be the correct one. 

I kinda gathered that adding the powder to the lye might be the best bet for CP. I suppose in HP I can try a solid color just to test what I have, and just use TD and/or charcoal for contrast, or add more powder to only part of the soap for gradation.


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## SaltedFig (Jan 21, 2019)

@Dawni,

The "white" indigo needs some lime, some oxygen and some fermentation to convert it to blue indigo, so a bit of a process, but it might be fun to try this yourself!

https://thekindcraft.com/the-process-indigo-from-plant-to-paste/


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## Dawni (Jan 21, 2019)

SaltedFig said:


> @Dawni,
> 
> The "white" indigo needs some lime, some oxygen and some fermentation to convert it to blue indigo, so a bit of a process, but it might be fun to try this yourself!
> 
> https://thekindcraft.com/the-process-indigo-from-plant-to-paste/


Very interesting.. I'll have to do more research on that and see if I have access to what I need to make it. Thank you!


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## KimT2au (Jan 21, 2019)

ShannonAll said:


> Hi Dawni
> I've tried alkanet, madder and indigo (green and blue) in both oil infusion and just mixed into the lye. The green indigo might be the kind used for coloring hair (mine was anyway).  It stayed green in the infusion and in the finished cp soap. Blue indigo added to lye gave me a pretty Robin's egg blue.
> 
> View attachment 35323


I was wondering about indigo.  My mother has been given some indigo powder for dying wool, I was wondering is it would be safe to use in soap or if it might contain harmful substances that I should avoid.


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## Dawni (Jan 22, 2019)

ShannonAll said:


> The green indigo might be the kind used for coloring hair (mine was anyway).  It stayed green in the infusion and in the finished cp soap. Blue indigo added to lye gave me a pretty Robin's egg blue.


I tested a bit of the Indigo powder that I have in a lil bit of water to see what shade of green it would give me.. And I got red! Like a dark brick red.. So yes, I think this IS the kind for hair, the one mixed with henna.

I wonder now if it'll give me red soap or brown...

Or maybe one night instead of soaping I'll color my hair since I also have henna haha



KimT2au said:


> I was wondering about indigo. My mother has been given some indigo powder for dying wool, I was wondering is it would be safe to use in soap or if it might contain harmful substances that I should avoid.


Is there any way to check the supplier to see if it's pure? If they say it doesn't have harmful chemicals I guess you could use it for your soap and make me envious lol


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## SaltedFig (Jan 22, 2019)

There is a hair dye blend that is indigo and henna, so if your "indigo" has gone brick red, it's probably that blend.
The indigo is used to offset the brightness of henna and make a warm (dark) brown hair dye (enough indigo and it's used for a black blend).

We'll need photo's ... whichever way you go


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## ShannonAll (Jan 22, 2019)

Hi KimT2au.  Contacting the supplier is probably your best bet. If you want more information on indigo or henna, I order mine (for my hair), check out mehandi.com.  She has a lot of info on her site.


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## Dawni (Jan 22, 2019)

SaltedFig said:


> There is a hair dye blend that is indigo and henna, so if your "indigo" has gone brick red, it's probably that blend.
> The indigo is used to offset the brightness of henna and make a warm (dark) brown hair dye (enough indigo and it's used for a black blend).


Well that explains it.. I had a feeling this might have already been mixed with something but for some reason I didn't think of henna. Now that you mention it, I have to check the henna that I have - this might be henna not indigo at all! 


SaltedFig said:


> We'll need photo's ... whichever way you go


Oh definitely!


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## Allen (Jan 23, 2019)

I made a citrus soap colored with turmeric last weekend. The color right after mixing was a deep orange color, which faded to a much lighter shade of orange the next day when I removed it from the mold and cut it.
 Yesterday it started to show dark orange specks and this morning it has really accelerated. I thought I would post pics to show the transformation.


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## Dawni (Jan 23, 2019)

My turmeric has never done that before... And never that bright an orange. Thank you for sharing that, next time someone's turmeric does that we won't be too surprised lol


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## Allen (Jan 23, 2019)

I used a turmeric that was a dietary supplement in capsule form.
It might have a very small amount of other additives too. I am surprised at the transformation and it’s interesting to watch it change.
  A spice turmeric may not behave like this.


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## zanzalawi (Jan 23, 2019)

Allen said:


> I made a citrus soap colored with turmeric last weekend. The color right after mixing was a deep orange color, which faded to a much lighter shade of orange the next day when I removed it from the mold and cut it.
> Yesterday it started to show dark orange specks and this morning it has really accelerated. I thought I would post pics to show the transformation.



wow, that transformation is pretty amazing!


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## KiwiMoose (Jan 26, 2019)

Gosh - I like the speckled one.  Has it stayed the same @Allen?


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## Allen (Jan 26, 2019)

Kiwi,
 It has stayed pretty much the same. It has been very interesting to watch it go from a pumpkin purée color to very pale and then to it’s current color palate. Here is a picture of how it looks as of today.


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## KimT2au (Jan 26, 2019)

Thanks @ShannonAll and @Dawni .  How much (or little) turmeric would you use to ensure it did not stain the users skin?


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## Dawni (Jan 26, 2019)

Zing said:


> I have absolutely no input but so intrigued.  Keep us posted with pictures!


Pics and a rather long read posted here @Zing!

@KimT2au I've used anywhere between 1tsp-1tbsp ppo (maybe even more) and so far have not noticed coloring on our faces hehe...

But since @Allen mentioned it, I'm thinking my spice powder might not be the kind that imparts too much color to anything. In soap I've never gotten a bright yellow, forget bout orange.. I've only gotten a pale, muted yellow (which is why I tried more than 1tsp) but it still never got to a saturated yellow.


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## earlene (Feb 8, 2019)

Dawni said:


> So my dad gave me a rather big bunch of powders and oils from Pakistan and I wanted to test some that I know are natural colorants.
> 
> I HP about 99% of the time. Only my soleseifes are CP because I failed those so badly when I tried to HP them lol.
> 
> ...




Here is a madder root soap I made a couple of years ago.  I love the deep reddish brown that madder root makes.  In fact, over time, the color deepened, but also retained the reddish tinge.  I used an oil infusion with powdered madder root.






I have also used indigo for what I called 'Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants' soap, but in my notes did not write down how I mixed the indigo powder.  My bad.  I will have to revisit indigo and try the different methods (mix in lye; oil infusion, water infusion) and see what kinds of results I get.


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## Meena (Feb 8, 2019)

Dawni said:


> So my dad gave me a rather big bunch of powders and oils from Pakistan and I wanted to test some that I know are natural colorants.
> These are the powders I have:
> 1. Indigo - surprised me coz the powder is green not blue at all
> 2. Ratanjot (actual root and powder), which I think is similar to Alkanet?
> ...



Oooh exciting! Ok -- Indigo.  Yes, green powder.  It goes in water, not sure about oil.  It goes in water for a hair paste with henna (it bonds to henna, not hair!).  I would not recommend it in soap because the blue can stain.  As for the licorice root, that is a medicinal plant that I can't imagine would have any benefit in soap.  I'll let someone else reply about 2,. 3., and 4.  

ETA:  SO late to this party!!  Just now seeing all the other replies.  Just ignore me....


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## Rogue-Soaper (Feb 8, 2019)

SaltedFig said:


> @Dawni,
> 
> The "white" indigo needs some lime, some oxygen and some fermentation to convert it to blue indigo, so a bit of a process, but it might be fun to try this yourself!
> 
> https://thekindcraft.com/the-process-indigo-from-plant-to-paste/


Thanks for that information.


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## Meena (Feb 8, 2019)

Allen said:


> I used a turmeric that was a dietary supplement in capsule form.
> It might have a very small amount of other additives too. I am surprised at the transformation and it’s interesting to watch it change.
> A spice turmeric may not behave like this.



I used (organic) turmeric spice once.  When molded, it looked like mustard (mustard soap = blech!), but mellowed to a dullish or flat yellow tolerable shade the next day.


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## Kurt (Feb 8, 2019)

Hi all.

I was actually reading Jo's articles on natural coloring yesterday and am going to make some cold infusions this weekend. I noticed she swears by olive oil pomace for it's color and shelf life. My favorite Jo quote:

 "You will never get Robin’s egg blue if you use oils that are green or yellow in color, *no matter how hard you try, or pray, or how many tantrums you throw,* it just won’t happen."

I'm wondering what types of oil everyone uses for their infusions? Are there other "clear" oil options?

Thanks for any input.

-Kurt


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## earlene (Feb 8, 2019)

Indigo is often used in soap and it hasn't stained anything here.  I would suppose that if you use too much it might.

The lye solution method is supposed to produce a very nice uniform color with indigo, but I haven't tried it that way yet myself.


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## SideDoorSoaps (Feb 8, 2019)

Kurt said:


> Hi all.
> 
> I was actually reading Jo's articles on natural coloring yesterday and am going to make some cold infusions this weekend. I noticed she swears by olive oil pomace for it's color and shelf life. My favorite Jo quote:
> 
> ...



I actually get a minty blue with indigo and have a heavy amount of greenish olive oil in my soap. It’s not an infusion though, I just mix the powder right in.





I infuse alkanet in olive oil and get an inky purple and annatto I do a warm infusion and get a vibrant orange. 





View attachment 36058
View attachment 36059
View attachment 36060


I would imagine maybe FCO or maybe a lighter yellow like SAO? Ooh, I never thought about maybe using castor to infuse because I don’t use a ton in my soap!


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## homesteaders (Feb 8, 2019)

I have had the best success with madder root by adding it to plain, full fat yogurt, and then adding after the cook.


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## Dawni (Feb 8, 2019)

Kurt said:


> Hi all.
> 
> I was actually reading Jo's articles on natural coloring yesterday and am going to make some cold infusions this weekend. I noticed she swears by olive oil pomace for it's color and shelf life. My favorite Jo quote:
> 
> ...


I've infused in "pure" olive oil, the kind that's golden and not green at all. I will be able to try pomace because that's what I recently bought, waaaaay cheaper than the pure one, but I checked the bottles for the lightest shade of green possible. We shall see. 
I also have infusions sitting in rice bran oil, another golden oil, and sweet almond oil, which is "whiter" than the other two. I've heard of some infusing in sunflower oil, if you have the high oleic one, and that's also a "whiter" oil. Regular coconut oil here is always liquid unless I put the container in the fridge or an air conditioned room, so I'm thinking that should work too. 


SideDoorSoaps said:


> I actually get a minty blue with indigo and have a heavy amount of greenish olive oil in my soap. It’s not an infusion though, I just mix the powder right in.
> View attachment 36054
> 
> 
> ...


Lovely soaps! I unfortunately only see two? 


homesteaders said:


> I have had the best success with madder root by adding it to plain, full fat yogurt, and then adding after the cook.


I will try that, thank you! It's the first time I've read about this, I'm excited.


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## geniash (Feb 8, 2019)

I have a "Simple and Natural Soapmaking by J. Berry and there is a nice table of pictures of soaps colored with natural dyes at the end of the book. The colors range by the amount added per pound of oils as well as the media (whether they are added to lye, oils, or added at trace). With your HP experience I would just add them at the end to avoid discoloration. It seems 2 tsp madder root PPO is producing nice red/pinkish color, while 1 tsp madder root stirred with water and added at trace is making red/purplish color. 1.5 tsp indigo PPO added to lye solution produces deep blue color, 0.5 tsp PPO added to lye looks like sky blue. 1 tsp indigo mixed with oils and added at trace is making blue/purplish color. I think you'll have to try with your ingredients and make some test batches to see how they will come out


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## Dawni (Feb 8, 2019)

Thanks @geniash! I've since made a list of the suggestions given here and I'll add yours.

But you're right, I'll probably have to try and see what works best.


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## Kurt (Feb 8, 2019)

Thank you for all the answers about infusion oil. 

I think I'll use my high oleic sunflower.


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