# Total Beginner But Very Interested and Ready to Start



## Phantasm (Nov 29, 2017)

Hello everyone,

I recently retired early (nice I know), and heard about soap making and rather fancied it.

I have read up a lot, watched and  continue to watch tutorials, and have called a couple of shops for advice as to how to begin. I have everything on order so I can start in a small way at the weekend. I am however a little confused with a couple of matters.

1. I am going to start with HP, and as I have a slow cooker I never use, that is one less item to buy. I have tried it out this evening, but it is taking an age to heat up some water I am using as a test. When heating my oils/fats prior to adding the lye, could I heat first on the stove to speed things up, or just let it take its time in the slow cooker?

2. One shop owner I spoke to stated to me that HP and CP are the same, and that what I read on the internet is wrong. Either I melt and pour, which I do not want to do, or HP/CP. Surely HP and CP are totally different methods, seeing as every post, article and video I have watched states they are? 

Thanks


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## toxikon (Nov 29, 2017)

Welcome and congrats on your retirement!

To answer your question:

Hot process is the process of adding your oils and fats to your slowcooker pot, waiting for them to melt, then adding your warm lye solution to the pot. Stick-blend, keeping everything nice and hot in your slowcooker then wait for the soap to "cook" for a few hours - and go through gel and saponification. Then you can zap-test it to make sure it has fully saponified, then dump it into your mold. These soaps often look more rustic because of the thick batter consistency. 

Hot process can work nicely if you are using temperamental fragrance oils/essential oils or wish to superfat your soap with a particular oil. Adding your superfat after your batter is zap-free means that saponification has already occured and your oil of choice will remain mostly untouched in the final soap.

Cold process is the process of melting your oils to around 100-120 degrees then adding your cooled lye solution (room temperature to 120 degrees). Your batter remains a lot more fluid, allowing for complex swirls, patterns and multiple colours. 

With cold process, the gelling and saponification occurs after you've poured your batter into your mold - over the span of several days. With cold process, you cannot control your superfat oil (your superfat will end up a combination of all the oils in your recipe) and some temperamental fragrances can cause problems like seizing and ricing if you're not careful.

So! The main difference is: hot process saponifies in the slowcooker before molding, while cold-process saponifies after you mold it, over the course of a few days.

Both methods require a cure time of 4-6 weeks to become good soap. And hot process requires more water content than cold process.

And you can heat your oils to melt them in a slowcooker, microwave, stovetop... I prefer the convenience of microwave.


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## Phantasm (Nov 29, 2017)

Thanks.

No way am I zap testing!

I saw a tutorial on how to use phenolphthaleinm and that is my testing.

Microwaving seems sensible, it took over an hour to get about two pints of water up to temperature, but then again, what is the rush?

Just one more question. During HP, one tutorial advised regular stiring, another stated not to stir much. Does it really matter if it is stirred every 10-15 minutes over 1 1/2 - 2 hours?

Thanks.


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## toxikon (Nov 29, 2017)

Hah! You'll find that 99% of the people here in the forum will recommend you get over your fears of zap-testing, as it's the only reliable way of testing for free lye in your finished soap without very expensive tools. :mrgreen:

I promise it's not that scary. 

Our resident scientist Deanna has a nice writeup about it on her blog: https://classicbells.com/soap/zapTest.html

And as for the HP question, unfortunately I've shared the full extent to my knowledge, as I am a cold-process kinda gal. I'm sure you'll get some responses from more experienced HP'ers soon.


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## Kittish (Nov 29, 2017)

Welcome fellow early retiree! You've found a very rewarding hobby, and one that absolutely requires lots and lots of patience. 

For your questions, yes, you can use your stove to heat or even just begin heating your oils. Using a water bath/double boiler/bain marie setup can help get them heated to the correct temps without accidentally scorching your oils.

I'm inclined to say the one shop keeper was correct, hot and cold process are pretty much the same thing, the only difference is that with hot process you apply external heat to hurry along saponification. Cold process you let it provide its own heat mostly, and it saponifies at a slower rate. 

As far as relative difficulty levels, I'd say that hot process is actually a bit more difficult than cold process. You have to keep an eye on your soap, making sure it doesn't volcano or get too dry or too hot (soap can scorch- burnt soap does not smell nice) with HP. With CP, you don't have quite so many worries about temperature effects (unless you use a fragrance or additions that cause it to heat up beyond what it normally would). You also, as Toxikon noted, are able to do a lot more design-wise with CP. 

Yes, how often you stir HP soap can make a difference. The more you stir, the more water it loses during cooking, which will make it more difficult to get into a mold.

Zap testing, done correctly, is no worse than putting your tongue across the terminals of a 9v battery. IrishLass also wrote out instructions how to do it here- http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=63199

I deliberately zap tested a soap I knew still had unreacted lye in it, just to see what it felt like. Seriously, it's like a quick electrical shock. Surprising, and if you've done it correctly, not even painful. Unmistakable, though. 

Chemical pH testing will NOT tell you if you still have unreacted lye in your soap. The zap test does, reliably and safely.


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## Phantasm (Nov 29, 2017)

Oh pooh, so I spent a tenner on Phenolphthalein that could more wisely have been used to swell my beer fund.

Oh well....


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## jcandleattic (Nov 29, 2017)

As others have said, the strips are unreliable in telling you whether there is unreacted lye in your finished product. All they will tell you is the pH of your soap, which can be anywhere from about 8.5-11 with handmade soap. 

Depending on how much water you use, the more you stir, the dryier your HP will become. 
My preferred method of soaping is CP, however, when I HP I only stir it once.

Welcome, congrats on the early retirement, and happy soaping.


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## Phantasm (Nov 29, 2017)

Soap and chips.

Yum yum


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## earlene (Nov 29, 2017)

I agree that HP is a bit more work than CP and you have DO have to keep a close eye on the soap in the crockpot.  For example, I had a batch rise up out of the crockpot and spill all over my worktable once when I left it alone too long (I got distracted and forgot about it.)  A big mess to clean up for sure, though in the end everything was nice and clean afterward.

But stirring constantly is not required unless it starts rising up over the top and spilling down the sides!  You can beat down the volcano by stirring and reducing heat.  But if it's very hot, it's also hard to handle, so always keep hot pads at the ready.  I've had to take the crockpot insert out of the heating vessel in order the allow for heat reduction more quickly.

Some crockpots don't work quite as well as others, due to being old and finicky or for whatever reason, and you can't be sure when it will go bad and overheat or heat unevenly.  So I would suggest using an Infra Red Digital Thermometer to test the different areas of your crockpot to determine if it is heating evenly and work accordingly.  

Also if you are going to use the 'intermittent stirring intervals' method, I suggest setting timer so you don't forget to come back and check on your soap.  Also spread out towels or other protective and easy to clean covering over your work space in case of any spillage/overflow.  And don't fill your vessel completely, as you need to allow for space for the soap to rise as it goes through the stages in HP.


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## Phantasm (Nov 29, 2017)

Cheers.

Yup, I think I have most of the gear,  I certainly do not intend to leave it alone for long, to stir or not to stir, t'was the question. Going to watch a tutorial or two more, but information overload is starting to rear its head, I need to actually do it.

One thing I do know, lye is very nasty stuff, rubber gloves and care.


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## toxikon (Nov 29, 2017)

Feel free to post your recipe here in the forum for feedback before you take the plunge. We'll let you know if something sounds off.

Do you have a particular recipe in mind? Have you chosen your lye calculator yet? I personally recommend the Soapee.com calculator, it has a nice clean user interface and is very easy to use.


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## jcandleattic (Nov 29, 2017)

Phantasm said:


> One thing I do know, lye is very nasty stuff, rubber gloves and care.



Respect the lye, but don't be afraid of it. Safety gear is always a must, gloves, goggles, long sleeves, shoes...


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## dixiedragon (Nov 29, 2017)

Can you tell us where you are located?

CP and HP are both the same and different. LOL!

They are the same in that they use the same recipes, and in that the end result is the same (soap). But they are different in their methods.

When you add your lye to your water (and not your water to your lye!) it will generate heat. Many soapers will put their oils in the slow cooker, add the lye to the water, then immediately pour the hot lye water over the cool oils. Then set your slow cooker to low. (Use a plastic pitcher for your lye water, not glass)


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## Phantasm (Nov 29, 2017)

toxikon said:


> Feel free to post your recipe here in the forum for feedback before you take the plunge. We'll let you know if something sounds off.
> 
> Do you have a particular recipe in mind? Have you chosen your lye calculator yet? I personally recommend the Soapee.com calculator, it has a nice clean user interface and is very easy to use.



No, not yet. I have spent hours reading up and watching tutorials. I am going to wait until I have the ingredients, and then pick a recipe. It sounds like a plan though, but it will be a very simple recipe. I will start to look at various possibles tomorrow, Friday is scheduled to be D-Day.

Yup, know about proper heat resistant plastic for lye. Will be using distilled water, rubber gloves, but the jury is out on the long sleeves, from what I read it can be easier to get it off skin rather than cloth, still it is cold here, so long sleeves it will doubtless be. Keep vinegar handy. I have a ph tester for plant feeding, but every tutorial bar one seems to suggest zapping......ooooerr.

Next week I am away for the final stage of a year of horrific dental work :crazy:in Hungary, so it is a very good time to start, it gets a week of curing while I am away.


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## jcandleattic (Nov 29, 2017)

Careful with vinegar, you do not want to put vinegar directly on a lye burn. IF you get lye or raw soap on yourself, rinse very thoroughly under cold running water. If you put vinegar directly on yourself after getting lye or batter, you could end up with a very nasty chemical burn... 

Yes, a pH tester will do exactly what it's designed to do. Test the pH, it will not, however, let you know if there is free lye in your soap. Zap testing is the quickest, easiest, cheapest way to do that. 

Good luck with your dental procedures.


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## Phantasm (Nov 29, 2017)

Oh dear, I am now horribly confused as it is late here.

Oils will be coconut, olive and palm, so I need a recipe with only those for now. How much of each I have no clue.

My first setback and not even switched the cooker on.....

Edit: The site has loads of recipes, I will look tomorrow


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## SparksnFlash (Nov 29, 2017)

Don't worry about zap testing.  I've zap tested for more years than I have fingers, and I have them all.  Haven't been 'zapped' once.


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## dixiedragon (Nov 29, 2017)

Phantasm said:


> Oh dear, I am now horribly confused as it is late here.
> 
> Oils will be coconut, olive and palm, so I need a recipe with only those for now. How much of each I have no clue.
> 
> ...


 
Here is a very simple one:
Coconut 20%
Olive 30%
Palm 50%
5% superfat

You want your soap to fill your slow cooker NO MORE than half way. Soap batter weighs (roughly) the same as water, so you can use that to calculate your volume. For example, if I know my slow cooker holds 100 ounces (by volume) then I will make a soap recipe that is 50 ounces (by weight). Oil is roughly 2/3 of a recipe so in that case, it would be a recipe with 32-33 ounces of oil and 16 ounces of water (approximately).


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## Phantasm (Nov 29, 2017)

Time I logged off for tonight.

What a truly lovely welcome from you all, and thank you for making me feel part of a team so early.

I do not understand superfat yet, although I have heard about it, I will check it out tomorrow.

I do wish to add some fragrance, but every single tutorial shows when to do it, all I need to find out is how much. Another job for tomorrow.

Thank you for all the advice. I will check how much my cooker holds in the morning. In the meantime there are one or two beers calling out to me, so I better go see what they want..!

Thanks again all.


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## penelopejane (Nov 29, 2017)

Phantasm said:


> 1. I am going to start with HP, and as I have a slow cooker I never use, that is one less item to buy. I have tried it out this evening, but it is taking an age to heat up some water I am using as a test. When heating my oils/fats prior to adding the lye, could I heat first on the stove to speed things up, or just let it take its time in the slow cooker?
> 
> Thanks



Do not put the insert of your slow cooker directly on the stove.  It might crack.  If it is ceramic and you are in a hurry it would be best to heat it in the microwave.


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## Phantasm (Nov 30, 2017)

I have a granite cutting board. If I drape a towel or dishcloth over that, would that be ok? No, I will take it slowly until fragrance time, have to be quick at that point

Thanks, I may well have done that.


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## penelopejane (Nov 30, 2017)

Phantasm said:


> I have a granite cutting board. If I drape a towel or dishcloth over that, would that be ok? No, I will take it slowly until fragrance time, have to be quick at that point
> 
> Thanks, I may well have done that.



If you use a soap safe fragrance oil you should not have to rush at all. Mix the FO with the oils before you add the lye. 

I would be careful with NaOH and granite.  It will eat into it if you are not careful.


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## Phantasm (Nov 30, 2017)

I am using a starter pack to begin with, and a couple of additional scents. I am going to be using HP, and from what I read and see, once the zap test is passed, the mixture can thicken rather quickly, hence the need to "get on with it". I will try CP as well, but not just yet. 

I feared someone would tell me I would have issues with granite. I also wondered about mixing the lye/water in the container in the sink, but now I wonder if the sink is aluminium. What do you guys do for the water/lye mixing please?


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## Kittish (Nov 30, 2017)

Phantasm said:


> I am using a starter pack to begin with, and a couple of additional scents. I am going to be using HP, and from what I read and see, once the zap test is passed, the mixture can thicken rather quickly, hence the need to "get on with it". I will try CP as well, but not just yet.
> 
> I feared someone would tell me I would have issues with granite. I also wondered about mixing the lye/water in the container in the sink, but now I wonder if the sink is aluminium. What do you guys do for the water/lye mixing please?



I have a big stainless steel milk frothing pitcher that I mix my lye in. Just give it a good rinse after I pour my lye solution into my oils. #2 and #5 plastics are also safe for using with lye, just make sure they're thick/heavy enough not to buckle or warp from the heat. 

I'm not sure how to determine whether your sink is aluminum, but it doesn't seem likely that it would be. Is it bare metal? Or enameled?


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## Phantasm (Nov 30, 2017)

Bare metal sink. Plastic jugs are heat resistant to at least 212F, I checked.

A plastic tray on worktop seems a possible solution.


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## Kittish (Nov 30, 2017)

Phantasm said:


> Bare metal sink. Plastic jugs are heat resistant to at least 212F, I checked.
> 
> A plastic tray on worktop seems a possible solution.



If it's bare metal, it's most likely stainless. Aluminum is too soft, you'd be forever gouging it with your silverware. Plus it'd be reactive with common drain cleaners (which are often lye-based). But again, I'm not sure how to test that to know for certain.

Yep, a plastic tray, or storage container or bucket should work.


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## dixiedragon (Nov 30, 2017)

I put my lye water in a plastic pitcher with lid. I'm not sure what recycling symbols are used in your area.


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## Phantasm (Nov 30, 2017)

toxikon said:


> Feel free to post your recipe here in the forum for feedback before you take the plunge. We'll let you know if something sounds off.
> 
> Do you have a particular recipe in mind? Have you chosen your lye calculator yet? I personally recommend the Soapee.com calculator, it has a nice clean user interface and is very easy to use.



Well, most of the equipment has arrived, except water distiller and the actual ingredients, both have been dispatched though and will arrive tomorrow.

The kit I am making my first batch with contains olive oil, palm oil and coconut oil. I also have a few little bottles of fragrances.

I do not want to make a large batch to start with, so I thought no more than 2lbs total weight with the following ratios:

Olive oil         30%
Coconut oil    35%
Palm oil         35%

Not too sure about superfat, maybe a little more coconut oil?


Only thing I am struggling with is how much fragrance oil in millilitres, so a little advice would be welcome, although I am not overly concerned with this, it is more a fairly hard bar that produces a creamy lather, hence slightly less olive oil than the others.

Am I on the right track guys?


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## Arthur Dent (Nov 30, 2017)

That much coconut oil would have me scratching my skin off.  But you might love it.  Good luck.


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## toxikon (Nov 30, 2017)

Phantasm said:


> Well, most of the equipment has arrived, except water distiller and the actual ingredients, both have been dispatched though and will arrive tomorrow.
> 
> The kit I am making my first batch with contains olive oil, palm oil and coconut oil. I also have a few little bottles of fragrances.
> 
> ...



Most of us like no more than 20% coconut oil in our general recipes, as it's a very cleansing/drying oil. There are, of course, exceptions to the rule, but no need to worry about that right now!

I'd personally switch it to:

40% Palm Oil
40% Olive Oil
20% Coconut Oil

5% Superfat
25% Lye Concentration

For fragrances, 3-5% is the norm.

I'd plug all of that into the Soapee Calc. There's an option called "Adjust oil weights to include water in Oils total". If you're planning a 2lbs total recipe, all you have to do is put in 2lbs/32oz/907g and it'll make sure your oil, lye and water amounts are perfect to fit into your mold.

They even have an option of "Superfat after cook".


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## Phantasm (Nov 30, 2017)

Thank you!

I am finding that soapee.com calculator rather confusing, so many options. 

Why would I not adjust for water in oils?
I do not understand which to use, 25% lye concentration or water percentage
Why does it not allow a total batch weight input, only total oil weight?
Superfat after cook or not iI cannot find any reason for before or after cook anywhere
Fragrance oil is in little 10ml bottles, so I have no idea what weight, although I suppose I can somehow try to wiegh fragrance oils, but that seems very cumbersome.

Totally confused and a little overwhelmed by that site.


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## toxikon (Nov 30, 2017)

Phantasm said:


> I am finding that soapee.com calculator rather confusing, so many options.
> 
> Why would I not adjust for water in oils?
> I do not understand which to use, 25% lye concentration or water percentage
> ...



I'll try to quickly break down a couple things for you. I know it can be confusing at first.

Step 1 - Solid or liquid soap? Pretty self-explanatory. Solid soap, as you're just using NaOH to make hard bars.

Step 2 - Recipe units. There's some personal preference in here. I like to use grams because they're the smallest unit of measurement and thus, a little more accurate. As for "adjusting oil weight to include water..." - personal preference. Some people like to go by just their oil weight, or do the calculations themselves. In your case, I'd tick the box and set "Oils total" to 2lbs (or other unit of measurement you prefer).

Step 3 - This can be confusing. I prefer to use "Lye Concentration". It's easiest to think of it in percentage terms that add up to 100. So if you're using 25% lye, you fill the rest of your 100% with water - so 75% water. 25% Lye Concentration is considered high water. The highest concentration you can achieve is a 50/50 solution (50% lye / 50% water). Any higher, and the lye won't fully dissolve. People use different lye concentrations based on personal preference and different recipes. A Lye Concentration of 25-30% is good for a newbie making a balanced recipe or doing hot process. You can ignore the "Water Discount" box.

Step 4 - Superfat. 5% is standard. Ticking the "Superfat after cook" box will add a little row to your final table telling you, in grams/oz/lbs, how much oil to add after the cook for your superfat.

Step 5 - Fragrance. Most sellers will put the maximum usage rate (in percentage) on the website description, so you can use that as a guide. Even if you go by percentage here, it will give you a lbs/oz/gram value in your final chart below.

Step 6 - Pick your oils, click the little plus button and more boxes will appear. Don't worry about the "Selected Oil Properties" - that's just a reference point for you. You will want to fill in your "Recipe Oils" box with the percentages of the oils in your recipe. 40 Palm / 40 OO / 20 CO (if that's what you wanna go with).

Once your oils add up to 100%, your recipe will appear below. It'll give you the gram/oz/lbs for everything that will go into your pot.


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## Phantasm (Nov 30, 2017)

Thank you.

I have found a site that also goes a little way to explaining this stuff. It is certainly wise to do this reading up and asking questions now rather than mess it all up and lose confidence.

Oh dear, my stick blender is useless. It can only be used for 1 minute, and then has to be switched off for 10 minutes.

Great. I wish it had stated that before I bought it, not after.


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## Kittish (Nov 30, 2017)

Phantasm said:


> Oh dear, my stick blender is useless. It can only be used for 1 minute, and then has to be switched off for 10 minutes.
> 
> Great. I wish it had stated that before I bought it, not after.



Maybe not entirely. Use the stick blender in 5 to 10 second bursts, and just stir with it off in between. It shouldn't take more than a minute or so to bring your batter to trace, and that's all you really need the stick blender for. Mixing in colors and fragrance and any oil you add after your cook can be done with just a spoon or spatula (soap safe! no wood or aluminum). Any stirring you do while your soap is cooking you really should do with a spoon or spatula, your soap will be way too thick by then for a stick blender to cope with.


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## Phantasm (Nov 30, 2017)

Thank you.

Unfortunately I heard tonight a friend died of cancer. She was only young, 40 (ish) and we knew she was ill, but the diagnosis was only six months ago, and it is a terrible shock.

My get up and go has rather dissipated for now. There is huge sadness, but i will be making the soap, hopefully tomorrow, with more than a few tears in the ingredients.

Thank you to everyone for all your help. I will let you all know just how badly I muck up my first batch....


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## penelopejane (Dec 1, 2017)

Phantasm said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Unfortunately I heard tonight a friend died of cancer. She was only young, 40 (ish) and we knew she was ill, but the diagnosis was only six months ago, and it is a terrible shock.
> 
> ...



So sorry for your loss. 

I much prefer soapcalc.net to soapee.  You have to play around with SF and other options to get used to what they do but it is great.

No one in the world follows the instructions on SB'ers.  Just use it normally and you will be fine.


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## Phantasm (Dec 1, 2017)

There is one more ingredient I have found that is very important.

Mouthwash!


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## SunRiseArts (Dec 1, 2017)

:bunny:

I know many here find CP easier than HP, but I did not venture into CP until I had done HP for about a year.

HP once you get the hang of it, you have more stable results IMO.  You can start with one or no color,  dealing with fragrance is way easier too, as well as cleaning afterwards.

I like Emilie's videos a lot.  She is so good at explaining, and showing every detail.  And you can visually see the stages of the soap.

Check her out!

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1SAK4Zz238&list=PLeRdKEBNTmT4sQUN4yFclsce6ZrYgJfJV&index=9[/ame]


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## Phantasm (Dec 2, 2017)

Well, the first ever batch looks ok. Out of the mould, sliced up, appears to have the correct consistency, nice lemony smell. Away for a week from tomorrow, my try one piece when I get back, then start my next attempt. See how this one fres, and amend according or try substituting an oil for another.

Candles are also on the to do list, as a bath bombs, but no rush for those. Downloaded a nice recipe guide, will have a read when I get back next Saturday (with my new teeth!)

Thanks guys for all the advice. I am sure I will be back,


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 2, 2017)

I wouldn't look at changing this recipe until you've used 4 week old bar for a while. How it performs at one week, two or even three would not be really representative of how it can end up performing, especially to a new soaper. 

If you want to make more soap in the meantime, make something totally different, like a salt bar


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## Phantasm (Dec 2, 2017)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> I wouldn't look at changing this recipe until you've used 4 week old bar for a while. How it performs at one week, two or even three would not be really representative of how it can end



Oh I have no intention of changing anything until I have tried the first two. I made another batch this afternoon, as I am away for a week from tomorrow. Already learned that small moulds are pretty hopeless for HP. What I would like to do is read a little more about the different oils and their properties. That I can do in the hotel bar!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 2, 2017)

Aye, but my point was that decisions about what to change, if anything, should wait until the soap is actually pretty well cured, or you might try to correct something which isn't actually an issue. A lovely, bubbly, non-drying bar at 4 weeks might be a dud when used at 2 weeks.


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## iwannasoap (Dec 8, 2017)

Kittish said:


> Welcome fellow early retiree! You've found a very rewarding hobby, and one that absolutely requires lots and lots of patience.
> 
> For your questions, yes, you can use your stove to heat or even just begin heating your oils. Using a water bath/double boiler/bain marie setup can help get them heated to the correct temps without accidentally scorching your oils.
> 
> ...



I've suggested that before and was told basically I was crazy. Not those words but you get the idea. I'd like to second your motion!

I would like to recommend not just knowing how to use a soap calculator but actually calculating your first few loaves yourself and then using a calc to see if your close.
Here is an example that I just made up.
16 oz olive oil @ .135
5 oz coconut (92) @ .178
3 oz Argon oil @ .136
4% superfat

(1-.04)x((16 x .135)+(5 x .178)+(3 x .136))
.96(2.16 + .89 + .41)
= 3.32 oz. lye

Knowing how to do this is the difference between a steering wheel holder and a professional race car driver.
Knowing this helped me out greatly so maybe it will help you too.


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