# Tiny bumps on cut soap face



## jemgraham (Apr 19, 2018)

I've made a few batches now, two different recipes that have developed tiny bumps on the face after cutting.  Nothing on the top.  They both went through partial gel, the bumps seem solid, not pockets of liquid and they're tiny, but bigger than grainy.  I tried to get a picture but I can't seem to get one that actually shows it with my phone.  It doesn't happen on all the faces, but more the ones in the middle of the loaf.  Any thoughts?  I did a search and I found a thread on splotchy soap, my bumps are much smaller and not a different color.  And thank you in advance!


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## girlfromoz (Apr 19, 2018)

jemgraham said:


> I've made a few batches now, two different recipes that have developed tiny bumps on the face after cutting.  Nothing on the top.  They both went through partial gel, the bumps seem solid, not pockets of liquid and they're tiny, but bigger than grainy.  I tried to get a picture but I can't seem to get one that actually shows it with my phone.  It doesn't happen on all the faces, but more the ones in the middle of the loaf.  Any thoughts?  I did a search and I found a thread on splotchy soap, my bumps are much smaller and not a different color.  And thank you in advance!


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They could be stearic spots, fat if milks were used ,from the cutter , not blended enough if using clay or such, may have needed more sitting time if not lye ( lye will be grainy )
Really hard to tell without photo, you maybe able to smooth them over as it could just be cosmetic, someone may offer something else.


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## DeeAnna (Apr 19, 2018)

Are you cutting the soap with a wire cutter? If you are, then these bumps are pretty normal to see on wire-cut soap bars.

My theories about this is the wire floats over slightly harder lumps of soap as it passes through the loaf or the bumps pop out immediately after the wire passes by. But those are just my guesses, not fact. 

If you don't like the bumps, you can cut with a knife or flat blade or you can lightly plane the faces of the soap after cutting with a wire. Either method makes the bumps go away.


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## jemgraham (Apr 19, 2018)

I do use a wire cutter!  I’ll try planing them.  I don’t use milk or clay yet, but I’ll make sure I let them sit longer before cutting, I can just hardly stand waiting, cutting is the best part I think.


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## DeeAnna (Apr 19, 2018)

IMO, I don't think the use of milk or clay will make too much difference. I think the bumps are always there in most types of soap; it's just the way the bars are cut that makes the bumps obvious or not.

I enjoy cutting my soap and seeing how the bars look too!


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## jcandleattic (Apr 19, 2018)

Yep as DeeAnna said, it's just something that happens to soaps when cut with a wire cutter. Completely different than stearic spots, although they can look similar.


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## lsg (Apr 19, 2018)

If you could post a picture of the bars, we might be better able to advise you.


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## Saranac (Apr 19, 2018)

Out of curiosity, jemgraham, what does your soap-making method entail?  I used to get the same bumps when using my wire cutter, but I revised my methods and my bars no longer suffer.  Even when making cold process soap, I find that if I melt my hard oils (coconut, lard, tallow, soy wax, what-have-you), heat them to about 150F, then quickly bring the temp down with my room temperature liquid oils, I am able to avoid the bumps.  If the cool oils don't bring the temperature down enough, I just let it cool naturally to my desired range.

Essentially, what I'm doing is putting my hard oils through a quick temper (like chocolate), and I get much smoother bars.  I still end up with drag-marks from the wires, but I can live with those!


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## jcandleattic (Apr 19, 2018)

I meant to add earlier - the only time I get these wire cutter bumps is when I cut my bars when they are too soft. Since I started waiting even just a few hours longer, I no longer get bumps.


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## BrewerGeorge (Apr 19, 2018)

I get these with wire cutter, too.  I find that they tend to become less noticeable after a cure, and whatever is left becomes a non-issue after a rinse.


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## jemgraham (Apr 19, 2018)

I was heating to the hard oils until melted and then mixing the hard and soft and making sure it was around 125 and mixing with the lye.  I will definitely try heating them up more.  And I’ll try a picture again tonight.  Thank you hank you!


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## jcandleattic (Apr 19, 2018)

jemgraham said:


> I was heating to the hard oils until melted and then mixing the hard and soft and making sure it was around 125 and mixing with the lye.  I will definitely try heating them up more.  And I’ll try a picture again tonight.  Thank you hank you!


I personally don't think the method of soaping (as far as heating the oils anyway) has a lot to do with it. I think it has more to do with afterwards and how soft the soap is, and if it gelled or not. 
Mixing too hot and you could cause volcanoes, or your soap can move super fast on you. But, I prefer soaping at room temp for both my oils and lye, and as I said, since waiting a few hours after unmolding to cut, I never get the bumps anymore.


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## Lin19687 (Apr 19, 2018)

About how long after pouring do you un-mold and then cut?  I ask because you all MADE me buy a wire cutter


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## Saranac (Apr 19, 2018)

jemgraham said:


> I was heating to the hard oils until melted and then mixing the hard and soft and making sure it was around 125 and mixing with the lye.  I will definitely try heating them up more.  And I’ll try a picture again tonight.  Thank you hank you!





jcandleattic said:


> I personally don't think the method of soaping (as far as heating the oils anyway) has a lot to do with it. I think it has more to do with afterwards and how soft the soap is, and if it gelled or not.
> Mixing too hot and you could cause volcanoes, or your soap can move super fast on you. But, I prefer soaping at room temp for both my oils and lye, and as I said, since waiting a few hours after unmolding to cut, I never get the bumps anymore.



Just to clarify my earlier comment, I wasn't suggesting that one should soap hotter, but rather that I have found that heating my hard oils to a higher temperature and_ then cooling to my preferred soaping temperature_, has resulted in soaps that no longer have bumps when cut with a wire cutter.  In my experience, when I've simply heated the oils until clear 120-125, I've ended up with bumps.  Why this happens, I don't know.

As far as cutting, I heat and insulate my molds, and I cut at about 20-24 hours after pouring; the soap is always still warm when I unmold and cut.  To each his or her own.


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## dibbles (Apr 19, 2018)

I usually make my soap in the afternoon, put it to bed and let it gel and it is ready to unmold and cut the next morning.


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## Lin19687 (Apr 19, 2018)

Hmm,  I heat my oils to about the 150 mark too.  I cut with a dough scrapper and have not had any bumps... will have to see what happens when I get my wire cutter.
The last several CP batches I made in evening from 6-9pm.  I insulate, let it gel to the corners (or just about at the corners) of the mold, take it out and put it on the desk. Then cut in the morning around 7-8am so about 12 hours more or less.
I was just wondering if waiting till 24 hours made much difference.


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## penelopejane (Apr 20, 2018)

Lin19687 said:


> Hmm,  I heat my oils to about the 150 mark too.  I cut with a dough scrapper and have not had any bumps... will have to see what happens when I get my wire cutter.
> The last several CP batches I made in evening from 6-9pm.  I insulate, let it gel to the corners (or just about at the corners) of the mold, take it out and put it on the desk. Then cut in the morning around 7-8am so about 12 hours more or less.
> I was just wondering if waiting till 24 hours made much difference.



A dough scraper or a knife will not produce the bumps.  
They only appear when you use a wire cutter.


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## CaraBou (Apr 20, 2018)

While wire-cut soap may be more prone to bumps, that is not a certain outcome, and more is surely at play.  Proof is in my Spring Soap post in the Photo Gallery -- all of those were cut with the same wire cutter and nearly identical base recipes, but only the green soap with pink stripes had noticeable bumps. 



Saranac said:


> I find that if I melt my hard oils (coconut, lard, tallow, soy wax, what-have-you), heat them to about 150F, then quickly bring the temp down with my room temperature liquid oils, I am able to avoid the bumps... Essentially, what I'm doing is putting my hard oils through a quick temper (like chocolate), and I get much smoother bars.





jcandleattic said:


> I think it has more to do with afterwards and how soft the soap is, and if it gelled or not.



I'm intrigued to test these two theories.  I recall that the same green and pink soap that I referred to above was still warm when I cut it, and I photographed it right away, then froze it so it would cool quickly and hopefully minimize bumps.

The original photo (first one below) clearly shows bumps. I retook the same photos tonight (about 2 weeks later) with similar light, background, etc. (second, smaller photo below). Unfortunately I didn't rephotograph immediately upon removing from the freezer. But tonight, the soap does look smoother (though I can feel more bumpiness than I can see).











I'm not saying freshly wire-cut soap must be frozen immediately to prevent bumps (though that may mitigate them to some degree). I am saying not all wire-cut soap show prominent bumps to begin with, and that the two theories above are testable.

A question for you, jemgraham - Are those the same sized bumps?


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## Lin19687 (Apr 20, 2018)

I wonder if it is one of the ingredients that does it more then others?
Bumps look the same to me.
Do they buff out if you give them a little water rub?


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## jcandleattic (Apr 20, 2018)

Saranac said:


> In my experience, when I've simply heated the oils until clear 120-125, I've ended up with bumps.


Are you sure what you are talking about is not stearic spots instead of wire cutter bumps? The two are completely different things although they can look similar. Heating your hard oils higher would get rid of stearic spots, however, if cut while the soap is still soft you can still get the wire cutter bumps.


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## DeeAnna (Apr 20, 2018)

I think you have a point, JC.

I've seen "stearic" spots on my soap; they are hard, small lumps that are white in color. I associate them with not heating my fats warm enough to get them fully melted. They remain visible on the surface of the bar no matter what I do to cut or plane the soap.

I have seen air bubbles which can look like white stearic spots on a casual look, but a close check shows them to clearly be small cavities in the soap. They also stay visible no matter how the bars are cut (begin edit) although cutting with a blade sometimes smears the cavities shut and makes them less obvious. (end edit)

Wire cutter bumps are another story. In my experience, they are not white or other color compared with the rest of the soap. Wire cutter bumps are only visible after the bars are cut with a wire. It has not been my experience that they disappear if the soap is cut when firmer, but I agree they are less obvious. They can be removed by planing or simple use in the bath. If I use a flat blade (knife, pastry scraper, etc), they do not appear at all.

In all cases, these are aesthetic issues only that bother some people and don't bother others.


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## girlfromoz (Apr 20, 2018)

CaraBou said:


> While wire-cut soap may be more prone to bumps, that is not a certain outcome, and more is surely at play.  Proof is in my Spring Soap post in the Photo Gallery -- all of those were cut with the same wire cutter and nearly identical base recipes, but only the green soap with pink stripes had noticeable bumps.
> 
> They are lovely bars and colour combo even with the stearic spots.


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## jcandleattic (Apr 20, 2018)

DeeAnna said:


> In all cases, these are aesthetic issues only that bother some people and don't bother others.


This is the crux of it. They do not bother me at all, and I just view them the same way I view wet spots in candles. It's just a part of it and I'm not going to sweat it.


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## jemgraham (Apr 20, 2018)

I think my bumps might be stearic acid now that I’ve seen your pictures....


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## jcandleattic (Apr 20, 2018)

jemgraham said:


> I think my bumps might be stearic acid now that I’ve seen your pictures....


Those do look like stearic spots to me, and not the wire bumps I am talking about.


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## Lin19687 (Apr 20, 2018)

I agree


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## penelopejane (Apr 20, 2018)

jemgraham said:


> I think my bumps might be stearic acid now that I’ve seen your pictures....



Improperly dissolved and mixed GM and TD can also cause spots that look like that.


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## jemgraham (Apr 20, 2018)

I’ll keep that in mind, in this case I used nothing but water and oils and the  vanilla fragrance which discolored the batch.


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## Lin19687 (Apr 20, 2018)

Well, don't spray cut soap with 91% Alcohol   I did that thinking it would make sure there was no ash on my cut soap and it all looks like Stearic spots all over.

yeah, not one of my better moments


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## CaraBou (Apr 21, 2018)

jcandleattic said:


> Are you sure what you are talking about is not stearic spots instead of wire cutter bumps? The two are completely different things although they can look similar. Heating your hard oils higher would get rid of stearic spots, however, if cut while the soap is still soft you can still get the wire cutter bumps.



How are they different? I'm not saying they're not - just looking to learn.  Are stearic spots whiter or otherwise more pronounced?  Would you attribute the dots in my green soap to stearic or wi? I realize the two photo sets are a little different in directness of lighting - but no matter how I hold that soap now, in shadow or light, the bumps are not visually pronounced. And just for the record, I realize it does not prove that freezing was responsible for that. Also, that was a large loaf and it was a bit soft on the ends. You can see some wire marks, but the corners were pretty firm.

The dark/marbled soap in my link above was fairly soft when I cut it 4 days ago, as evidenced by the "balled" shavings and the nicked corners, which were too soft to plane well and I had to smooth over. As I run my fingers across the face of that soap now, and also upon the the purple-pink alkanet bars, I really don't feel much - they're pretty smooth.    Even the black and white round pumice/coffee bars in post 10 - which are supposed to be rough - are not bumpy in remotely the same way as the green and pink striped soap.

While none of my musings are scientifically rigorous, I had DH run his fingers over all of these same soaps,  asking if they were bumpy without telling him why I wanted to know.  His answer: only the green & pink striped soap is bumpy.  So I'm struggling to understand the concepts here. If those are stearic spots, why did they fade?

I wasn't really planning to make more soap very soon ( I just made a bunch -- shouldn't I stop??) - but maybe there is still more reason!

ETA - Those smileys are a little obnoxious, but since I can't seem to delete them I hope they provide some humor!


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## jcandleattic (Apr 21, 2018)

CaraBou said:


> How are they different?


Stearic spots are caused by undissolved stearic, where as wire cut bumps are caused by the wires of the wire cutter, and have absolutely nothing at all to do with stearic. You can get the wire bumps even if you don't have any or hardly any stearic present in your oils in the first place.


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## penelopejane (Apr 22, 2018)

Cut a slice with a wire cutter and you will probably get the wire cutter spots. Cut the same soap with a blade and there will be no spot.

Stearic spots will be there regardless of the cutting method and can’t be planed off either.

Stearic spots are not hard lumps they are just a part of the soap. TD and goats milk spots can be hard little lumps in the soap.


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## SoaperForLife (Apr 22, 2018)

What about when your stick blender is getting older?  I started having problems with bumps that ended up being because my stick blender was ancient and when I switched to a newer model, they ceased to be a problem...


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## CaraBou (Apr 24, 2018)

This soap cut last weekend with wires shows ridges between the different colored batters, but not so much spots. I think it’s the same concept you all are talking about but a different effect. Zoom in if you need to.


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## DeeAnna (Apr 24, 2018)

Cool photo, CaraBou! I am seeing this same ripply effect on some of the bars I made for the April Challenge (sous vide HP) where the colored portions stick out slightly from the uncolored base soap. My colorants are mixed with glycerin rather than water, so my conclusion is a little extra glycerin can cause the same ripples as a little extra water. 

Your pic shows these ripples really clearly. Even though I don't consider this a "problem" at all, I'm sure this effect might surprise newer soapers, so maybe your photo would be a good addition to this thread -- https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/a-picture-of-ricing-volcanos-separating-overheating.52097/


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## penelopejane (Apr 24, 2018)

I can get those ripples with no extra water or extra glycerin. Just a wire cutter.
They get a little bit (not much at all) more pronounced over time. When I first cut one I couldn’t see the ripples but they showed up more clearly in a photo.

It might be that the different batters were mixed slightly differently - more trace? Or additives - colour - might slightly alter the texture? Or maybe the glycerin alters the texture a tiny bit? 

If I cut the same soap with a knife there are no ripples.


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## amd (Apr 24, 2018)

I'm leaning towards PJ's conclusion regarding batter being mixed slightly differently causing the rippling. I just did a batch of soap 5 weeks ago, when they came off the cure rack over the weekend there was rippling such as CaraBou's photo. For my batch, I brought it to emulsion, separated, added the FO to one portion (it's a discoloring FO) and SB'd to trace. The smaller portion I only added color and brought to trace. I did an ITPS and poured into my mold. My thoughts on it were the same as PJ's, I had different levels of trace.

Sidenote: for the record, I am forehead slapping myself for even trying the ITPS with the discoloring FO. It's taking over the colored portion anyways. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. This FO doesn't.


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## snappyllama (Apr 24, 2018)

I get those bumps too sometimes... To minimize them, try running the bar over a hard surface right after cutting.

My theory on it is that they are really teeny air bubbles. I seem to get them worse when I've been sloppy about introducing air into my batter.


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## PapsSoaper (Aug 18, 2021)

Yes i had them in my soap ... But have used a wooden mold with freezer paper... Did i cut too early? Have cut with wire yes. Attaching a pic, nor sure if you can spot those annoying tint bumps...


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## penelopejane (Aug 18, 2021)

PapsSoaper said:


> Yes i had them in my soap ... But have used a wooden mold with freezer paper... Did i cut too early? Have cut with wire yes. Attaching a pic, nor sure if you can spot those annoying tint bumps...


Try cutting early and it might lessen the bumps. Only problem then is you might get ash but this can be prevented by putting the freshly cut soap into a plastic box with a lid.  This prevents the air getting to the soap for a few days and stops ash. Or put the soap on a tray and wrap in plastic wrap for a few days.


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## PapsSoaper (Aug 19, 2021)

penelopejane said:


> Try cutting early and it might lessen the bumps. Only problem then is you might get ash but this can be prevented by putting the freshly cut soap into a plastic box with a lid.  This prevents the air getting to the soap for a few days and stops ash. Or put the soap on a tray and wrap in plastic wrap for a few days.


Hi Penelope,
Thank you... I have cut the soap after 24 hours... It went thru gel phase ... Did not do cpop but wrapped it in a blanket... forgot to add sodium lactate to this batch.. just thinking is that why the bumps then?


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## AliOop (Aug 19, 2021)

I wouldn't think that leaving out SL would cause the soap to have bumps. Whatever the cause, you can use a pastry knife, aka bench scaper, or a putty knife, to smooth out the soap face right after cutting. In this video by Ione Eve of Eve's Garden, you can see her doing this around the 25:11 mark:


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## PapsSoaper (Aug 19, 2021)

AliOop said:


> I wouldn't think that leaving out SL would cause the soap to have bumps. Whatever the cause, you can use a pastry knife, aka bench scaper, or a putty knife, to smooth out the soap face right after cutting. In this video by Ione Eve of Eve's Garden, you can see her doing this around the 25:11 mark:



Awww thank you AliOop... Totally checking out the video! Appreciate


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