# Lye fumes



## Raha (Jun 8, 2010)

With time, I have become more immune to the fumes of lye. I do take precaution by having ventilation in my kitchen via. stove fan/open windows or stepping out of the kitchen. This is, however, an observation that concerned me. Does anyone know how this affects us? I feel like I'm losing brain cells or something!
Thank you,
Raha


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## carebear (Jun 8, 2010)

More immune or just better at avoiding them?


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## donniej (Jun 8, 2010)

A lot of stove fans (hoods) don't vent outside.  If yours does not, I'd hate to find out where all that lye is building up!

Even if it does vent to the outside, I bet the lye is slowly eating the fan motor and the pipe leading outside. 

I mix mine in the garage with a fan blowing out.


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## whisks (Jun 8, 2010)

i mix mine outside and do my best not to breathe - i'm sure it can't be good. it's probably the worst thing about soaping, but i still love making soap from scratch. i think MP might be fun, but the pull of making soap from scratch is stronger. it's the challenge.


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## lovethyscent (Jun 8, 2010)

I always wear a mask and never hover over my lye mixing container. I don't have a hood fan, but always have windows open.


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## ChrisShepp (Jun 8, 2010)

Does anybody know exactly what the fumes are (i.e., what the chemical is)?  I've wondered since I start doing CP.  I have some background in chemistry and for the life of me, I can't figure out what gas the reaction would produce...  :?


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## soapsmurf (Jun 8, 2010)

You CANNOT become more immune to "lye fumes," as there is no such thing.

The "fumes" are evaporated NaOH-- LYE and water vapor.  

As you know, mixing NaOH with water will create heat.  Too much lye at once, will cause evaporation.  The evaporated water will contain _some _amount of lye.  You can reduce the amount of evaporation created by mixing your lye in small amounts with water, until your entire amount has dissolved.  Mixing in small amounts, so as not to make the water turn cloudy, will generate the least amount of vapor.


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## IwantItgreen (Jun 8, 2010)

I find adding the lye to cold water helps alot.  I throw some ice in my container while it's on the scale and then add cold water, followed by the lye.  I hardly smell anything.


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## Sauboon (Jun 8, 2010)

The fumes from lye are very caustic. If I were you I would make it my business to always wear protective gear like gloves, mask, etc. Also you should never put your face over the lye container and it is best mixed outside


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## djk17 (Jun 8, 2010)

oh believe me, if you have your face over the lye pitcher you will know immediately. When you stop coughing you will never forget to mix at arm's length again.

I have the windows open and mix the lye in the sink, and leave it there to cool.  I also only add a bit at a time because I usually don't use water for the liquid and I don't like to see the lovely vibrant colours my lye solution can become if I dump it all in at once.


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## IrishLass (Jun 8, 2010)

What soapsmurf and Sauboon said. 

I mix my lye out in my garage with complete hand, eye, nose and mouth protection on. On top of that, I also take the pre-caution of taking in a deep breath and holding it just prior to uncovering and then pouring my lye out into my water. As I stir, I slowly let my breath out. 

It's a pain in the butt, but better safe than sorry. On the up-side, though, if you master-batch your lye instead of mixing up a new container of lye/water every single time you make soap, you don't have to go through the ordeal as often.  


IrishLass


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## Hazel (Jun 8, 2010)

IrishLass, 

I didn't know you could master batch lye. How do you do this?


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## IrishLass (Jun 8, 2010)

I don't know how I _ever_ soaped without master-batching my lye. It makes it _so_ much easier.

What I do is mix equal parts of lye and water together (a 50% lye solution) in a large Rubbermaid container along with some tussa silk fibers. Quantity-wise, I usually mix up 35 oz of water to 35 ounces of lye each time I do this (I soap small 2.5 batches at a time, so this amount works great for me). 

After the lye solution has cooled completely off, I pour it through a fine mesh stainless strainer into a heavy-duty HDPE container with a tight-fitting lid. My favorite container to use for this is a cleaned out and dried All Liquid Detergent bottle with a no-drip spout, like the one pictured here:

http://www.walgreens.com/store/catalog/ ... sku3457259

Then I store it tightly closed in a safe place and use as needed. It lasts for many weeks, too. I've gone as long as 2 months on the same bottle before without any issues whatsoever.

And don't worry if you don't soap with a 50% lye solution. Neither do I- I mostly soap with a 33% lye solution. Here is a link to a thread that explains how to dilute and use the masterbatched lye in your formulas no matter what strength solution you soap with (just scroll down to my 2nd post on the thread, which I believe is 10 posts down from the top):

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/forum/vi ... asterbatch


HTH!
IrishLass


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## Hazel (Jun 8, 2010)

IrishLass,

Thanks so much for the info! This is really, really going to help me. The hardest part of soaping for me is mixing up the lye water. It's hard for me to get uninterrupted time in the kitchen.


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## MagiaDellaLuna (Jun 9, 2010)

The only thing about masterbatching the lye solution that worries me is the evaporation factor.

If you mix e.g. 35 oz lye to 35 oz water by the time it has cooled down you actually have less than 70 oz in total due to evaporation.

When you measure out e.g. 10 oz of the solution you would actually have more than 5 oz of lye in there, unless the lye and water evaporate in equal proportions ?

Has anyone ever measured the exact concentration of lye/water in a masterbatch, or is any variance not worth worrying about ?

ETA
If I could put my concerns aside it would certainly be easier for me to masterbatch. At least I would not have to get the whole "Darathy Vader" outfit on as often


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## carebear (Jun 9, 2010)

I know the weight of my container and add extra water if necessary.  It's important to let it cool with LID ON.


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## MagiaDellaLuna (Jun 9, 2010)

carebear said:
			
		

> I know the weight of my container and add extra water if necessary.  It's important to let it cool with LID ON.



Thanks, Carebear.

So I need to :-
1) Weigh my container
2) Weigh my lye and water (equal amounts)
3) Add lye to water and stir, stir, stir.
4) Place lid on container once the lye is dissolved.
5) Allow to cool completely.
6) Weigh the container and the lye solution ~ this should be the combined weight of the container, lye and water.
7) If the amount is less than it should be (and no doubt it will be short) then top up with the missing water (which has evaporated)
8) Ready to use

That makes more sense to me now. I would hate to end up with lye heavy soap or even a lower superfat than intended.


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## rubyslippers (Jun 9, 2010)

carebear said:
			
		

> I know the weight of my container and add extra water if necessary.  It's important to let it cool with LID ON.



Okay, butttttt.... if you add water into your container with your existing lye solution will that possibly cause a volcano?  I don't want an unexpected explosion  :cry:


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## soapsmurf (Jun 9, 2010)

rubyslippers said:
			
		

> carebear said:
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No, this shouldn't happen.


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## ToniD (Jun 9, 2010)

A question:

two people mentioned adding silk fabric,   is that because you ultimately want it in all your soap anyway, or does it have some other quality that helps with making a master batch of lye?


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## carebear (Jun 9, 2010)

rubyslippers said:
			
		

> carebear said:
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no.  but it might warm up a bit so be sure to cover to avoid more evaporation...

remember, you can and should cool your lye solution with the lid on every time - especially in this case.


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## IrishLass (Jun 10, 2010)

I should have specified, but I do the same thing as Carebear does. I cool with my lid on and I also know the weight of my container and add extra water when cooled if necessary (so far, it hasn't been necessary, but I still weigh before and after anyway just in case). 



> two people mentioned adding silk fabric, is that because you ultimately want it in all your soap anyway, or does it have some other quality that helps with making a master batch of lye?



I use silk because I want it in my soap anyway. 

IrishLass


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## FloridaSoaper (Jun 21, 2010)

I'm pretty new at making soap, and the hardest obstacle for me to overcome when I make my soap is measuring/mixing the lye. I have 2 small kids and I'm REALLY cautious about making sure every bit of the process is extremely controlled...that way I can gauge better where lye crystals might be sitting, splashes, etc. (Which I'm sooo careful about that I almost never have crystals falling or splashes.) Anyways, I measure with my scale on a hand towel on my counter, which goes in the washing machine through a vinegar rinse and then a full cycle when I'm done making a batch. I was also mixing in my sink, but it's so humid here in FL that I felt like I needed a bath after I closed the window and I didn't feel like the vapors were actually escaping the house. So I've started taking the measured lye in a glad container or another plastic container only used for soap, and my water in my pan or tall beer glass with makeshift lid, along with my spoon and another hand towel...with my gloves, N95 mask, and wrap around goggles, ha, and carefully get from the kitchen to the back porch. I NEVER soap with kids around...usually when they're in bed or on the weekend when hubby can watch them. The idea of fumes in the house really bothers me...I mean most of us want to make soap to enjoy natural products with no chemicals right? So it doesn't make sense to me that some soapers are a little blase about dealing with lye. It is dangerous! I intend to soap for many years to come and I imagine I'll become a little desensitized to it, but safety precautions are good!  Ok...so this is just a little bit of how I soap here in my kitchen...ideally I'd love to have a workshop designated for soap so I never have to worry about lye crystals in food or soap in my oven, LOL, but this will not happen anytime soon! Sorry this is soo long. One last thing...I will be replacing my N95 mask that's for painting/sanding, etc that has a respirator on it, for a sturdier, reusable mask with the replaceable cartridges. The N95 I just picked up at walmart, it was the best they had and better than nothing, but it's not meant to handle chemical fumes which is why I'll be spending some money on something that will. I intend on taking care of my lungs!  Happy soaping everyone and hope this helps someone!
Shannon H.


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## madpiano (Jun 22, 2010)

Hmm, master batching lye....sounds like a good idea. I might have to go out and buy one of those liquid laundry detergents for once. I am not sure if they do them in large bottles here ?


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