# Recipe of Catherine Failor



## biarine (Jun 27, 2017)

I am confuse with her recipe. I don't know much superfat and seems the water is too.

30 ounces coconut oil
9 ounces soft oil of your choice 
7 ounces rosin 
12 ounces koh
36 ounces distilled water


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jun 27, 2017)

Does the process go on to add in something else?


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## biarine (Jun 27, 2017)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Does the process go on to add in something else?




No that's only on her recipe. I bought her book about liquid soaping but it's very confusing to me. Not much explanation with regards if the recipe.


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## Saranac (Jun 27, 2017)

Her formulas have a negative SF.  The excess KOH needs to be neutralized after the paste is diluted.  What you posted is just the paste; you'll need more water to dilute.  The process for dilution is in the book, but I agree, it's not well organized--and hard to understand.  IrishLass and Susie have better tutorials on the forum.


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## Dahila (Jun 27, 2017)

I got her book too and it was a waste of money,  I went through it and never looked at it again.  Will give away eventually.  We have such teachers here we do not need the books they idea of making soap lye heave then neutralizing it , does not sit well with me


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## biarine (Jun 27, 2017)

Saranac said:


> Her formulas have a negative SF.  The excess KOH needs to be neutralized after the paste is diluted.  What you posted is just the paste; you'll need more water to dilute.  The process for dilution is in the book, but I agree, it's not well organized--and hard to understand.  IrishLass and Susie have better tutorials on the forum.




That's true for me that newbie isn't easy to understand what's explaining.  Susie, DeeAnna and IrishLass more better.



Dahila said:


> I got her book too and it was a waste of money,  I went through it and never looked at it again.  Will give away eventually.  We have such teachers here we do not need the books they idea of making soap lye heave then neutralizing it , does not sit well with me




Yes it does Dahila I really thought that's good because of good reviews but I mistakes , I wasted my £8.


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## Saranac (Jun 27, 2017)

I still have my copy and I do use it occasionally for reference.

If there's something about the formula that you posted that intrigues you, you should try it.  Just run it through a calculator with a 3% SF and a 25% lye concentration.  With a slight SF, you don't need to bother neutralizing the soap.

Off the top of my head, I think the tutorials by IL and Susie are cold process.  With the rosin, you'll have to use HP.  Personally, I only use 2% rosin in my LS.  CF speaks very highly of rosin, but in my opinion, a little goes a long way.  But do try it--I started with her recipes and eventually worked my way down to 2% rosin.


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## biarine (Jun 27, 2017)

Saranac said:


> I still have my copy and I do use it occasionally for reference.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you Saranac very helpful.


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## Saranac (Jun 28, 2017)

I decided today to make a small batch with 5% rosin instead of my usual 2%.  It's still diluting--and I'll reserve judgement until it's finished--but so far, I'm just not impressed with the increased amount.  It doesn't seem to lather as well.   If you decide to try the recipe you posted, I'd be interested in hearing your results and opinion.  I would suggest cutting that batch size down though.


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## biarine (Jun 29, 2017)

Saranac said:


> I decided today to make a small batch with 5% rosin instead of my usual 2%.  It's still diluting--and I'll reserve judgement until it's finished--but so far, I'm just not impressed with the increased amount.  It doesn't seem to lather as well.   If you decide to try the recipe you posted, I'd be interested in hearing your results and opinion.  I would suggest cutting that batch size down though.




I am still thinking if I will do it. I use rosin in my cold process but I never used in liquid. Please let me know the result. She use lanolin in her recipe too.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 29, 2017)

If you start with the fats and rosin at the melt temp of the rosin and add lye solution that is also about the same temp, I suspect a cold process method of making this soap will work just fine, rosin or no rosin. In my experience, if my soap batter starts warm enough, it will continue to stay sufficiently warm just from the heat generated by saponification -- no extra heat is needed. Rosin saponifies fast, so that will help keep the batter warm.


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## Saranac (Jun 29, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> If you start with the fats and rosin at the melt temp of the rosin and add lye solution that is also about the same temp, I suspect a cold process method of making this soap will work just fine, rosin or no rosin.



This is, in fact, how I make my LS with rosin.  I melt the rosin, castor, and coconut together until the rosin is completely melted.  I then slowly add about 1/4 of my hot KOH solution, stir to combine and let that sit for about 5-10 minutes.  The rosin will saponify quickly, and you can get the hot stickiness taken care of immediately. This also always the mixture in your pot and the additional KOH solution to cool a bit.  Once you see the rosin soap floating on the top, go ahead and add the rest of your lye solution and the remaining batch oils.  From there, it should proceed like any other CP LS (albeit, a little faster, due to the rosin soap).


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## DeeAnna (Jun 29, 2017)

Okay, but in an earlier post you said, "...Off the top of my head, I think the tutorials by IL and Susie are cold process. With the rosin, you'll have to use HP...." 

I was wanting to present a different point of view in response to this quote. 

Based on your latest response, I'm a bit confused why you earlier recommended an HP method if you yourself use a CP method. ???


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## Saranac (Jun 29, 2017)

When I combine the KOH solution with the rosin, coconut, and castor, both solutions are over 200F--which I don't consider to be CP.  I've tried letting that mixture cool before adding the lye solution, but the rosin solidifies on the bottom of the pot and makes a mess.  I realize that the OP stated that they make CP soap with rosin, and if it works, go for it.  But in my experience rosin has to be hot processed.  

Once I have waited 5-10 minutes to let the rosin and KOH do their thing, the temperature of the blend in my pot (and the remaining lye solution), are cooler, but still in the 170-180F realm.  But adding my room temperature sunflower oil (about 65% of oil total), drops the temperature farther--what I could consider CP temperature.  The rosin, at this point, no longer causes problems.  In fact the presence of soap in the mixture speeds things along.   I stick blend, and finish like every other CP LS tutorial on the internet. 

I do apologize for any misunderstanding; I'm most likely confusing terminology, and I do apologize for that, but I've never come across a method and acronym for a "start like HP, but finish like CP".  SLHPFLCP?  At least once a week my SO tells me that I give horrible instructions.  I guess I can no longer argue that point.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 29, 2017)

"..."start like HP, but finish like CP"..."

I don't see it that way. Depending on the recipe, my starting ingredients may be quite warm or at room temp, but I don't define CP or HP on that basis. 

IMO, HP is any method that calls for cooking the soap batter until saponification is essentially complete, and then the finished soap is put into a mold. 

CP is any method in which actively saponifying soap batter is put into the mold. The saponification reaction goes to completion after the soap is in the mold.

Until you explained your perspective, I've never heard about putting a limit on the temperature of the starting ingredients as a division between HP and CP. From my perspective, if your soap goes into the mold while saponification is still actively going on, you are using a cold process method. It makes no difference about how hot the starting ingredients are.


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## Saranac (Jun 29, 2017)

I apologize for spreading misinformation and derailing this thread.  I tried helping the OP as I thought I had enough experience with rosin LS to offer my experience.  Unfortunately, I only seem to be adding to the confusion.  I stand behind my method; whether it's HP or CP, I no longer have any clue.  The end result is soap: it's clear, it lathers, and that's all I can hope for.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 29, 2017)

I don't mean to turn this into a wrangle about semantics -- I was simply confused. I've used rosin in soap as well and used a somewhat similar approach to making the soap as you did. You call it HP ... I call it CP ... but we both made soap. 

Thank you for explaining your perspective so kindly and clearly, Saranac. I understand what you mean now.


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## Saranac (Jun 29, 2017)

But semantics is important, and I muddied the waters.

Listen, I’m the new guy, and I just wanted to help.  It’s my fault that I didn’t think to check the list of forum acronyms before I posted; I clearly don’t have a grasp of the finer points.

And to the OP—so sorry to add to the confusion.  You started this thread because you were confused and I spent the last few days rambling.  The next time I volunteer any information, just nod your head knowingly and move on to the next post.  In the future, I’ll leave the LS questions to the experts.


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## tinglingclean (Jun 29, 2017)

I am new to liquid soap making and have never seen rosin mentioned in all the recipes I have looked at.  What is it and what is it made from.?  I would suppose it is available at all soap suppliers.  any information would be appreciated,  Thanks


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## ellenk61 (Jun 30, 2017)

I have a question about soap.calc. Does anyone works with the balance score?


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## biarine (Jun 30, 2017)

ellenk61 said:


> I have a question about soap.calc. Does anyone works with the balance score?




As I ran it thru soap cal she use -3% SF and 25% water.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 30, 2017)

tinglingclean said:


> I am new to liquid soap making and have never seen rosin mentioned in all the recipes I have looked at.  What is it and what is it made from.?  I would suppose it is available at all soap suppliers.  any information would be appreciated,  Thanks



No, you won't find rosin at any of the usual soap suppliers. It's not a common soaping additive anymore, and it's hard to find. Catherine Failor uses rosin in some of her liquid (KOH) soap recipes, but you will seldom see it in other's liquid soap recipes and almost never in bar (NaOH) soap recipes. It supposedly helps make liquid and transparent soaps more transparent, but, like Saranac, I think rosin is not a hugely amazing and beneficial soap additive. I would be the last to encourage others to use it, except as an unusual additive to try for the sake of trying.

Rosin, also called colophony, is a clear golden solid material made from pine sap. The sap is collected by tapping pine trees, similar to how maple trees are tapped to make maple syrup. The pine sap is boiled and the vapors that rise from the boiling sap are collected and condensed into liquid turpentine. Rosin is the solid material that remains after the turpentine is removed.


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## tinglingclean (Jul 1, 2017)

Thanks for the information about rosin, think I will just continue to make my soaps without it, as it sounds like it could be tricky. Just amazed that I have never heard of it before.  Thanks again, nice to have a source for this type of information.


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## penelopejane (Jul 1, 2017)

People use rosin on the strings of their bows for violins, cellos etc. 
You may get it from a musical instrument store but probably not in bulk.


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## biarine (Jul 1, 2017)

penelopejane said:


> People use rosin on the strings of their bows for violins, cellos etc.
> You may get it from a musical instrument store but probably not in bulk.




If you're  in uk the soap kitchen they selling rosin in bulks.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jul 2, 2017)

The first time I used rosin in soap I bought 8 oz bag of rosin at Dick's Sporting Goods -- Baseball Department. I think it's used to soften their gloves ??? Not sure. You can also find it on line. It comes in chunks & in powder. The powder is preferable because it's easier to melt. If all you find is the chunks, be sure to put it in a plastic bag, wrap a towel around it, and pulverize it to powder. I use a dedicated food processor to grind it to a fine powder. Melt it with some of the coconut in the recipe to get it fully melted with no sappy bits on the bottom. Keep the temp up when processing to keep it fluid.

I love it. As little as 1 oz in a 5 lb batch of hard bars bumps the lather. ROSIN saponifies much like an oil but without any resulting glycerin. It gives a smooth cold cream finish to the lather and also acts as a detergent and preservative. To calculate - Rosin has the same SAP value as Wheat Germ Oil. (NOTE: May cause contact dermatitis in sensitive individuals). I use it regularly in Flaxseed Oil Shampoo and Murphy's Oil Soap dupe -- great for cleaning wood floors and surfaces.


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## biarine (Jul 10, 2017)

I did a batch of liquid soap today using 4 oz of rosin and it become trace quickly about 8 minutes and turn transparent. Here's after the trace. I cook the paste for 3.5 hours.


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## Zany_in_CO (Jul 10, 2017)

Excellent! :clap:


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## biarine (Jul 11, 2017)

Here's the finished product of failor liquid soap recipe.
 too reddish I think. I don't like the feel on my hands I don't like the waxy feel.


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## dixiedragon (Jul 11, 2017)

I do like that color!


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## biarine (Jul 11, 2017)

dixiedragon said:


> I do like that color!




Thank you, it's like a dark resin.


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