# Asking friends/family for opinions



## WickedKris (Nov 20, 2017)

Hi! I'm a newbie. I'm going to give a few friends & family my products (the safe, zap tested ones) for their opinions on things like lather, moisturizing or drying, did it feel good on their skin, etc. I may or may not sell in the future but I definitely want to give as gifts in the coming years. I felt I'd get a good understanding by testing myself and then with others who may have different skin types than myself. Did you do this when you started CP soap? If so, did you create a form to send with the soap? If so, what kind of questions did you ask? I know I have an idea in mind, but wanted more experienced folks to give me some advice here. I want, more than anything, for those I give soap to to enjoy it and want to use handmade soap over that commercially processed trash. Lol. TIA for your help and time!


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## MorpheusPA (Nov 20, 2017)

I more homed in on what *I* liked, which may be very different than what others enjoy.  But I've certainly heard of people creating a form and handing it out.

Many won't return the form.  Refuse to give them any more soap until you get an opinion out of it.


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## WickedKris (Nov 20, 2017)

MorpheusPA said:


> I more homed in on what *I* liked, which may be very different than what others enjoy.  But I've certainly heard of people creating a form and handing it out.
> 
> Many won't return the form.  Refuse to give them any more soap until you get an opinion out of it.


Oh I like that! No more soap for you until you follow said rules! Lol that's great!


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## Millie (Nov 20, 2017)

WickedKris said:


> Well weird... Said it wasn't connected to forum and couldn't post my reply. Did it twice... But there they are! Weird.


Nothin' ta worry about.
Welcome to the forum, WickedKris!


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## navigator9 (Nov 20, 2017)

Everyone's skin is different, so their preferences will differ. Aim for a good, balanced recipe. What was an eye opener for me, was a blind test that I did with friends and co workers. I came up with five different recipes, made up small samples of each, and a questionnaire, and handed them out. The recipes were all olive based, with one different ingredient in each. I had a definite bias, knowing what the ingredients were. I think it's often difficult for us as soapmakers, because we know the ingredients and the properties of the different oils and butters we use, so we have certain expectations, depending on what goes into the soap. But the users in the blind test have none, so their feedback can be really valuable. I was totally surprised when the majority of users in my test preferred the bar with avocado oil in it, and I've added it to my soaps ever since.


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## penelopejane (Nov 20, 2017)

^^ Blind testing is great.  
You will find goats milk doesn't really rate in blind testing but it has great label appeal.

Family can be problematic when they give feedback like:
it was soap, it was fine. 

You can go to the trouble of printing labels for each soap and beautiful questionaires but you might get back comments like "I forgot the label but I liked the pink one".  It's really important not to have two pink ones in your test samples. 

You have to make it easy for people to assess.  
Do you feel like you have to put moisturiser on after using this soap in the shower.  Is it gritty or smooth?  Are there enough bubbles?

If you don't ask specific questions you will get back: it was lovely.
A good question for women is: would you pay for it.  
(Generally!!!! Men just don't care enough to pay for handmade soap.)


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## Dahila (Nov 20, 2017)

Penelope is right,  I do not test my soap anymore, when customers come back for more I know they like it,  this the only true testing on unknown people


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## WickedKris (Nov 20, 2017)

Millie said:


> Nothin' ta worry about.
> Welcome to the forum, WickedKris!


Thank you!



navigator9 said:


> Everyone's skin is different, so their preferences will differ. Aim for a good, balanced recipe. What was an eye opener for me, was a blind test that I did with friends and co workers. I came up with five different recipes, made up small samples of each, and a questionnaire, and handed them out. The recipes were all olive based, with one different ingredient in each. I had a definite bias, knowing what the ingredients were. I think it's often difficult for us as soapmakers, because we know the ingredients and the properties of the different oils and butters we use, so we have certain expectations, depending on what goes into the soap. But the users in the blind test have none, so their feedback can be really valuable. I was totally surprised when the majority of users in my test preferred the bar with avocado oil in it, and I've added it to my soaps ever since.


How interesting! I basically am trying to get a recipe that works for the majority of my friends and family. I know I'll never please everyone but I'd like to give people something they'll actually use. Your experience is exactly what I'm hoping for... Find the piece that most seem to like and include it. Ty for your help!



Dahila said:


> Penelope is right,  I do not test my soap anymore, when customers come back for more I know they like it,  this the only true testing on unknown people


For the time being, no selling for me. Just want to gift it to my close friends and family. So I'm hoping a little test will help me determine a recipe that the majority likes and I'll go from there. I'll definitely keep this in mind though should I sell my soap in the future. Makes sense!



penelopejane said:


> ^^ Blind testing is great.
> You will find goats milk doesn't really rate in blind testing but it has great label appeal.
> 
> Family can be problematic when they give feedback like:
> ...


This is great info! Ty! I will be sure to ask specific questions and I love the would u pay for it question! Smart! Ty sm!


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## dibbles (Nov 20, 2017)

I think you will have a better chance at meaningful feedback if you give them at least two samples to try so there is something to compare. It's hard to remember from one to the next even as a soap maker who knows what to look for, because it's all better than commercially made.

I maybe should have handed out a form, but my testers either tend to like everything, or don't want to say anything if they don't. Comments pretty much are fragrance related.


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## WickedKris (Nov 20, 2017)

dibbles said:


> I think you will have a better chance at meaningful feedback if you give them at least two samples to try so there is something to compare. It's hard to remember from one to the next even as a soap maker who knows what to look for, because it's all better than commercially made.
> 
> I maybe should have handed out a form, but my testers either tend to like everything, or don't want to say anything if they don't. Comments pretty much are fragrance related.


Yes, I will give at least 2 to try at a time. I was thinking 3 simply because of 3 recipes I have in mind. I am so appreciative of all the helpful comments. Y'all are amazing!


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## SoapEh (Nov 20, 2017)

I am also a new soaper. Like you, I've been trying different things and would love to get a bunch of opinions on my soap. I find getting friends and family to comment much at all is like pulling teeth. It's a bit like asking someone close to you to rate your spaghetti sauce; they're probably going to consider your feelings and effort before they think about things like how much more oregano they can taste, and even if they hate mushrooms they might try to find a nicer way to say that they didn't particularly enjoy that aspect of your sauce.

When I first started soaping I made bath bombs and scented them with a chocolate fragrance oil that was, to put it nicely, a dud. I had an idea to make layered, cake-flavoured bombs so I had a vanilla layer, a cherry bit, and a chocolate layer. The icky chocolate tainted the whole thing and the cherry wasn't great either -- the whole thing was a mess. The fizz wasn't great, the bombs were too small... but I learned a lot. I was pretty sure they were a no-go, but I thought I'd ask some friends to smell them since everyone's noses are different. One friend obviously thought they smelled awful, and could only come out with 'well... there are certainly a few different smells in there... it's ... interesting?' I made much more successful bombs that I loved personally, and sent one home with a friend to try. After two weeks she finally tried it, and when I asked if she enjoyed using it, she smiled and nodded, saying 'yeah, it worked, the bath water fizzed!' Well... okay, I knew THAT... I guess I should have been more specific. 

I wonder if there's a way to get some more objective testers? I guess you could do a type of survey, but it'd cost an arm and a leg to get any actual information back -- I can imagine that the amount of soap and forms you'd need to give out to get useful data would be pretty significant. 

Maybe we should just get one of those camp wash station things with a pump-sink, grab a bunch of different soaps, and then we'll set up a tester table on the street. It'll be like a man-on-the-street thing where they ask people if they like cola A or cola B better, only we'll ask them to smell and touch soap, and then wash their hands if they feel like it. Then as they dry off we could ask questions about the soap. We could send everyone who completed the 'survey' away with a free bar of soap. I'm mostly kidding but if we were 12, this would absolutely work.


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## Cellador (Nov 20, 2017)

Hi! Another new soaper here, thinking about starting a business in the next couple of years...
I have a hard time getting honest feedback. I have told everyone that I would appreciate constructive critism, but so far, only one person has provided any info worthwhile. Like others have said, most people don't really think about soap the way soap makers do.
I have been thinking about putting together a house party type event where friends invite their family & friends. Have people test different scents/recipes, fill-out questionnaires, get free samples, etc. I know it sounds a little like multi-level marketing, but I wouldn't be asking anyone to buy anything. Payment would be feedback about the products.


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## earlene (Nov 20, 2017)

So far several people in my family have given me useful feedback about my soaps.  The first was my husband, who besides myself was my first tester.  From the first soap I made and continuing forward, he gives me very valuable feedback as well as being very interested in the process and has learning so much about soapmaking.  He provides feedback, not only about how his skin feels after using a particular soap, but also how it feels during use, scratchiness (when applicable), lather, drag (some formulas create more drag), efficiency at removing stubborn 'dirt' (mechanics types of applications) and so forth, up to and including shower stall residue! In fact he is the only one who has actually given me feedback about shower stall residue; none of my other family have mentioned that, but my husband understands how I feel about cleaning showers and bathtubs, so he gets why that is an aspect I consider in soapmaking.

The second was my DIL, who told me 'since using your soap I don't need to use moisturizer on my skin after bathing.'  That was my own experience as well, so it was a nice validation, but good to know that I was on the right track for others as well.  The third was my younger son, who said something like, 'This soap is so good, you really should start a business selling it.'  Now, granted that wasn't particularly specific, but it told me that he liked it enough that he believed people would want it more than what they already have.  Then, of course there was my  granddaughter who prompted me to develop a soap for facial acne because  she asked for it and because it was successful for, her input was quite  valuable for that soap.  

One of my Sisters-in-Law, whom I have given many soaps wasn't very specific at all, but with a little drawing out, I was able to discern what characteristics she preferred in soap.  

My blacksmith brother helped a lot in determining a best out of 3 formulas for handwashing for a blacksmith (well at least for him as a blacksmith.)  But he specifically asked for a soap to meet a purpose and after a bit of research I gave him three options for evaluation and he gave me quite useful feedback on those soaps.  

Several people that work at the nursing home where my MIL lives ask her to ask me for more soap, but I have never learned what it is they like about the soap specifically, but I know they like it because they ask for more.   When I bring in a box of it, I do notice that they tend to make choices for various reasons.  Some like the scent, while others choose based on the shape or a specific ingredient, and still others choose based on the presentation (pretty ribbons on the soap and whatnot.)


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## WickedKris (Nov 20, 2017)

SoapEh said:


> I am also a new soaper. Like you, I've been trying different things and would love to get a bunch of opinions on my soap. I find getting friends and family to comment much at all is like pulling teeth. It's a bit like asking someone close to you to rate your spaghetti sauce; they're probably going to consider your feelings and effort before they think about things like how much more oregano they can taste, and even if they hate mushrooms they might try to find a nicer way to say that they didn't particularly enjoy that aspect of your sauce.
> 
> When I first started soaping I made bath bombs and scented them with a chocolate fragrance oil that was, to put it nicely, a dud. I had an idea to make layered, cake-flavoured bombs so I had a vanilla layer, a cherry bit, and a chocolate layer. The icky chocolate tainted the whole thing and the cherry wasn't great either -- the whole thing was a mess. The fizz wasn't great, the bombs were too small... but I learned a lot. I was pretty sure they were a no-go, but I thought I'd ask some friends to smell them since everyone's noses are different. One friend obviously thought they smelled awful, and could only come out with 'well... there are certainly a few different smells in there... it's ... interesting?' I made much more successful bombs that I loved personally, and sent one home with a friend to try. After two weeks she finally tried it, and when I asked if she enjoyed using it, she smiled and nodded, saying 'yeah, it worked, the bath water fizzed!' Well... okay, I knew THAT... I guess I should have been more specific.
> 
> ...


Great idea with soap stations! Lol. I have some amazing friends and family and they've all agreed to help. I'm hoping I can use specific questions to get to the info I want. We shall see. I definitely have some great info from y'all!  My next issue is gelling. I think I have another question to start lol.



Cellador said:


> Hi! Another new soaper here, thinking about starting a business in the next couple of years...
> I have a hard time getting honest feedback. I have told everyone that I would appreciate constructive critism, but so far, only one person has provided any info worthwhile. Like others have said, most people don't really think about soap the way soap makers do.
> I have been thinking about putting together a house party type event where friends invite their family & friends. Have people test different scents/recipes, fill-out questionnaires, get free samples, etc. I know it sounds a little like multi-level marketing, but I wouldn't be asking anyone to buy anything. Payment would be feedback about the products.


I think this sounds fun! I'd go! I'd recommend giving them all a free small soap gift to take home. Everyone loves free!



earlene said:


> So far several people in my family have given me useful feedback about my soaps.  The first was my husband, who besides myself was my first tester.  From the first soap I made and continuing forward, he gives me very valuable feedback as well as being very interested in the process and has learning so much about soapmaking.  He provides feedback, not only about how his skin feels after using a particular soap, but also how it feels during use, scratchiness (when applicable), lather, drag (some formulas create more drag), efficiency at removing stubborn 'dirt' (mechanics types of applications) and so forth, up to and including shower stall residue! In fact he is the only one who has actually given me feedback about shower stall residue; none of my other family have mentioned that, but my husband understands how I feel about cleaning showers and bathtubs, so he gets why that is an aspect I consider in soapmaking.
> 
> The second was my DIL, who told me 'since using your soap I don't need to use moisturizer on my skin after bathing.'  That was my own experience as well, so it was a nice validation, but good to know that I was on the right track for others as well.  The third was my younger son, who said something like, 'This soap is so good, you really should start a business selling it.'  Now, granted that wasn't particularly specific, but it told me that he liked it enough that he believed people would want it more than what they already have.  Then, of course there was my  granddaughter who prompted me to develop a soap for facial acne because  she asked for it and because it was successful for, her input was quite  valuable for that soap.
> 
> ...


This is what I'm hoping for! You give me hope! I have an amazing set of friends and family that are happy to give opinions and feedback. I don't mind constructive criticism so they know they can be honest. I'm hoping my experience will be similar to yours and lots of people will give me feedback. Ty!


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## penelopejane (Nov 20, 2017)

WickedKris said:


> Great idea with soap stations! Lol. I have some amazing friends and family and they've all agreed to help. I'm hoping I can use specific questions to get to the info I want. We shall see. I definitely have some great info from y'all!  My next issue is gelling. I think I have another question to start lol.



Only problem is that DH says he can't assess a soap at the sink washing his hands. He says he has to try it in the shower. His hands aren't sensitive enough - this is the guy who gets dermatitis from one use of detergent without gloves!


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## MorpheusPA (Nov 20, 2017)

WickedKris said:


> This is what I'm hoping for! You give me hope! I have an amazing set of friends and family that are happy to give opinions and feedback. I don't mind constructive criticism so they know they can be honest. I'm hoping my experience will be similar to yours and lots of people will give me feedback. Ty!



I just twigged on that "constructive criticism" thing.  My mother will give an opinion if it's positive, so I have to read her in the reverse.  The fact that she said nothing about the lather of my first soap spoke volumes--whereas she commented on how much she liked the color and scent.

I have one cousin who will never say anything nice about anybody or anything and specifically mentioned that she got a bag of soap at a Yankee Exchange (kind of a Secret Santa, but you don't know who you're giving to, either), tried it, put it in a closet, and ignored it.

That might have been hurtful but...I know her, I thanked her for her input (fortunately, she's immune to sarcasm) and I've never gone out of my way to gift her with anything I make.

In short, don't be too surprised if the Negative Nancies (and Neds) in your life rush forth to give you a bad opinion.  You know who they are.  Ignore them unless they're very specific on one point and you can also see that argument.


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## WickedKris (Nov 20, 2017)

MorpheusPA said:


> I just twigged on that "constructive criticism" thing.  My mother will give an opinion if it's positive, so I have to read her in the reverse.  The fact that she said nothing about the lather of my first soap spoke volumes--whereas she commented on how much she liked the color and scent.
> 
> I have one cousin who will never say anything nice about anybody or anything and specifically mentioned that she got a bag of soap at a Yankee Exchange (kind of a Secret Santa, but you don't know who you're giving to, either), tried it, put it in a closet, and ignored it.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I will absolutely take this to heart. Very good point.


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## SparksnFlash (Nov 20, 2017)

Welcome Wicked!

So smart you are, and such awesome advice.  I'm only adding a bit.  Once people like your soap one of the first things you will hear is "Do you sell it?"  and pay want to purchase.  Another is you may want to give them "sample sizes" - small cubes or thin bars.  (This comes from my giving my daughter several full size bars to try - she loved it, kept some and SOLD the remaining bars to some friends.):Kitten Love:


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## Kittish (Nov 20, 2017)

When I give soap to friends and family to try out, I tell them "I do not want to hear about how great the soap is. I know it's great. What I want to know is what you DON'T like about it." (I'm the same way with cooking. Tell me what you DIDN'T like, so I can figure something else out that you might like better.) I hadn't thought of coming up with an assessment form to give out with them. I might add that. 

My plan is to come up with an individualized recipe for each person I gift to regularly, and since I keep really detailed notes for each batch and make small batches, this doesn't strike me as being impossible. Only time consuming, and that I'm okay with.


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## MorpheusPA (Nov 20, 2017)

Kittish said:


> My plan is to come up with an individualized recipe for each person I gift to regularly, and since I keep really detailed notes for each batch and make small batches, this doesn't strike me as being impossible. Only time consuming, and that I'm okay with.



With the qualification that, if you ask my husband, he'll say "not spicy enough" to any dish.  My response will be, "Too spicy."

I'm definitely at the far end of the bell curve, so I wouldn't expect a special recipe.  Just give me the least spicy one you have.  So to speak.


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## Kittish (Nov 20, 2017)

MorpheusPA said:


> With the qualification that, if you ask my husband, he'll say "not spicy enough" to any dish.  My response will be, "Too spicy."
> 
> I'm definitely at the far end of the bell curve, so I wouldn't expect a special recipe.  Just give me the least spicy one you have.  So to speak.



We've got a friend like that. His standard response to 'how spicy is okay?' is 'ketchup.' He's also not picky about things like soap. Does it get him clean? That is literally the only criteria he has for soap. For clothes, it's 'is this legal to wear in public?' along with 'can it move on its own?' If the answers are 'yes' and 'no' respectively, he's good to go.


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## mx5inpenn (Nov 20, 2017)

I have a good group of family that offer constructive feedback. I gifted to some friends and got no real responses except from 1. After that, I decided I would make them respond. I will give samples with a survey targeting specific responses. If they return the survey completed as requested, they get a free full sized bar. I don't do a whole lot of testing anymore, so this works out well for me.

I will second avocado oil. I had the same results as navigator when I tested it.


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## CaraBou (Nov 21, 2017)

Wicked Kris ~ A few years ago I administered a blind test of two soaps with 20 people where I varied only one ingredient. I gave them a form to complete and enough time to use the soaps awhile before reporting back. I engraved the soaps with numbers so they could always report accurately which soap they were using.  I thought it was interesting and I'm glad I did it.  

The first link below is to the thread where I introduced the survey concept; note the PDF of my survey form is in post #11.
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=41411

The thread with the results and my interpretations of the results is here:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=44167

I tried to keep the survey simple, and not read too much into the results. But even so, I found it enlightening. If I did it again, I'd make bigger batches and employ more testers so I could get a bigger sample size. I'd also pick an ingredient that doesn't change the appearance as much as milk does. I couldn't completely control for that.

If you decide to go forward with a test, have fun with it, and be sure to report back!


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## Zany_in_CO (Nov 21, 2017)

WickedKris said:


> Did you do this when you started CP soap? If so, did you create a form  to send with the soap? If so, what kind of questions did you ask?


Hiya Kris, and welcome! I did have a few willing testers when I first started making stuff (not just soap) and I did create a form to get feedback. I was lucky that all my testers were soapers in the Denver area so they didn't fudge on their replies and told me what I needed to know.


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## WickedKris (Nov 21, 2017)

Zany_in_CO said:


> Hiya Kris, and welcome! I did have a few willing testers when I first started making stuff (not just soap) and I did create a form to get feedback. I was lucky that all my testers were soapers in the Denver area so they didn't fudge on their replies and told me what I needed to know.
> 
> View attachment 26719


Oh my ty! I'm pretty sure I have some good testers willing to be honest so I think it'll work. Ty for the form view! That helps, too!


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## penelopejane (Nov 21, 2017)

CaraBou said:


> Wicked Kris ~ A few years ago I administered a blind test of two soaps with 20 people where I varied only one ingredient. I gave them a form to complete and enough time to use the soaps awhile before reporting back. I engraved the soaps with numbers so they could always report accurately which soap they were using.  I thought it was interesting and I'm glad I did it.
> 
> The first link below is to the thread where I introduced the survey concept; note the PDF of my survey form is in post #11.



Thanks Carabou, 
 I also blind tested GM and water soap with only that ingredient different in the soaps on my family and friends - about 12 people I think.  Just about everyone preferred the water soap (from memory only 1 preferred GM). 

My niece who only uses goats milk soap definitely preferred the water soap but still uses goatsmilk because she thinks it has magical properties!


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## CaraBou (Nov 22, 2017)

penelopejane said:


> Thanks Carabou,
> I also blind tested GM and water soap with only that ingredient different in the soaps on my family and friends - about 12 people I think.  Just about everyone preferred the water soap (from memory only 1 preferred GM).
> 
> My niece who only uses goats milk soap definitely preferred the water soap but still uses goatsmilk because she thinks it has magical properties!



Funny how that works, eh?  I've only made a few GM's since then, and seldom use additives besides sugar, a chelator, colorants and fragrance. But that tune may change if selling.


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