# Soap Batch That Did Not Make Paste...



## Susie (Jul 12, 2016)

AKA:  To dilute or not dilute.  That is the question.

I am making a batch of IL's LGS using this recipe:

Castor Oil 3.2 oz
Coconut Oil 8 oz
Olive Oil 20.8

KOH 7.1 oz
Water 10 oz
Glycerine 11.3 oz

Honey 1.5 Tablespoons

I stickblended it to the point it looked like apple sauce.  I was sure I was almost at the "false paste" stage right before it goes to liquid and then gives me flying bubbles or paste within seconds.  It did, indeed, turn to liquid.

However, it neither gave me flying bubbles nor paste.  Ever.  I continued to stickblend and stir on and off for 30 minutes when I decided that I needed additional heat.  I continued to heat and stickblend for another 15 minutes. Nothing changed.  

I then added grated bar soap to hopefully kick off paste.  Nope.  I then let it sit in a crock pot on high for another 15 minutes.  

It is beautiful thick soap, but not paste.  It does not zap.  It bubbles beautifully.  

I hate soap batches that confuse me!


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## Arimara (Jul 12, 2016)

I'd dilute and see where it takes me. Please remember, I'm still a brave little knucklehead who doesn't mind finding out things the hard way if it means the lessons stick.


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## doriettefarm (Jul 12, 2016)

I'd also try to dilute if it doesn't zap.  Who knows Susie . . . maybe adding honey did something magical to keep a paste from forming!  I've never tried adding sugar/honey to LS but now I want to try and see if your results are repeatable (minus adding the grated bar of soap).


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## Arimara (Jul 13, 2016)

doriettefarm said:


> I'd also try to dilute if it doesn't zap.  Who knows Susie . . . maybe adding honey did something magical to keep a paste from forming!  I've never tried adding sugar/honey to LS but now I want to try and see if your results are repeatable (minus adding the grated bar of soap).



She only adds a small amount of grated soap, if memory serves me right. It does help, in case you want a go at it.


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## Susie (Jul 13, 2016)

I waited to dilute because I wanted to see what it was like completely cooled.  It is now a slightly gloppy, but still pourable liquid.  I probably let too much moisture evaporate while I was playing with it earlier, and caused the gloppiness.  I will definitely be repeating this, without all the extra steps to see if I can repeat it.  

I add sugar or honey to boost the bubbles in batches that I know are not going to be used in foamers.  (I am making this batch for a friend that has "skin issues" and has been using Dr. B's liquid soap to avoid syndets.  I told her I could make better soap than that.)  I have never had this problem before.  

The only thing I can think that changed this batch is _when_ the honey got added.  I actually forgot to add it when I normally do, and I added it directly to the crockpot after the first 20 second stickblend burst.  Everything was still very liquid, so I thought nothing of it.


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## Susie (Jul 13, 2016)

This morning I added 23 oz water.  As DeeAnna says, I snuck up on the amount, though.  I added little by little to get to that 23 oz.  Here is the consistency this morning:


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## KristaY (Jul 13, 2016)

This is totally fascinating Susie. I've never added sugar or honey to my LS so can't comment on it's behavior. But since this has happened to THE LS Guru (along side IL, LOL) I'm interested to see how things pan out for you. I'm following along.....


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## Susie (Jul 13, 2016)

Although I disagree with the designation, I post these mystery batches because:

1.  I get stumped and mystified like everyone else.  I am looking to those I consider the LS gurus for help.  I am not one. 

2.  I want everyone to hear what is going on when I get an unexpected result so that if it happens to you, you can remember and come back to see what the LS gurus told me.

It is really thick liquid soap at just at half the normal dilution amount of water.  I had to unexpectedly work all day today, so I did not get to continue my experiment on this soap.  Good thing, as it is completely cooled, and still quite thick.  I am debating on whether to continue diluting or not. 

Oh, and it is dark brown because I added wildflower honey that is dark.  Don't ask me how 22 gms of honey can color a whole batch of liquid soap, but it does it every last time.


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## KristaY (Jul 14, 2016)

Interesting about the wildflower honey, I had no idea. When I saw the color of the soap my first thought was how much it looks like my pine tar LS. I guess I have that on my mind since I made a big batch a few days ago, lol.

So the diluted soap is thick and dark. There's no bits of thick paste left? Does sugar (in this case honey) change the dilution ratio? If so, I'm adding a sugar component to all my LS in future. I've tried adding salt solution to diluted LS but didn't get much change in the thickness of the final soap.

PS ~ Sorry to disagree Susie, but I still term you an LS guru.


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## Susie (Jul 14, 2016)

I actually do not know what has made the difference.  I have used this honey before without this outcome.  I have used other blended honey, not raw wildflower honey that is this dark, before without this outcome.  And I have certainly used sugar without this outcome.  I am truly stumped as to why this batch did this.  I will have to try to repeat this to figure out what the difference is.  

The soap is still very very thick, but pourable.  I will figure out whether or not to add water in the morning.  I will probably divide the soap to give me several different water amounts to test.

I normally use 46 oz water to dilute this recipe.  I am using less (and no SL) to see how little water I can add before I am totally happy with the consistency.  It is pouring today like molasses in the summer.  Not thick, but not exactly what you want on a pancake.


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## Arimara (Jul 14, 2016)

Susie said:


> I actually do not know what has made the difference.  I have used this honey before without this outcome.  I have used other blended honey, not raw wildflower honey that is this dark, before without this outcome.  And I have certainly used sugar without this outcome.  I am truly stumped as to why this batch did this.  I will have to try to repeat this to figure out what the difference is.
> 
> The soap is still very very thick, but pourable.  I will figure out whether or not to add water in the morning.  I will probably divide the soap to give me several different water amounts to test.
> 
> I normally use 46 oz water to dilute this recipe.  I am using less (and no SL) to see how little water I can add before I am totally happy with the consistency.  It is pouring today like molasses in the summer.  Not thick, but not exactly what you want on a pancake.



Not all honey is equal. Raw honey is said to be healthier than the more refined varieties and I love it for allergy season since it keeps me from taking the meds. Different plants have different properties so what if it's the same for flower pollen? I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.


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## Susie (Jul 14, 2016)

But I have used this honey in liquid soap before.  I just used it in the KOH water, not after I started stickblending.

Here is the final soap with a total of 34 oz dilution water.  A full 12 oz less than normal!

By the way, I love my new camera!


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## Arimara (Jul 14, 2016)

You've used raw honey in soap before you mean?


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## Susie (Jul 14, 2016)

Yes.  I use that more than sugar or pasteurized honey.  The ONLY thing that changed is WHEN I added the honey.


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## Arimara (Jul 14, 2016)

Susie said:


> Yes.  I use that more than sugar or pasteurized honey.  The ONLY thing that changed is WHEN I added the honey.



Sorry then. :mrgreen: I admit, I haven't been sleeping these days so I have missed quite a lot of important info, even while reading. I'm not retaining anything.:-? So, sorry for adding to the frustration but for what it's worth, that soap looks like it would be great for a gag novelty soap. All you need is M&P pancakes or something to that effect and good lighting. Call it "Bath & Breakfast".


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## Susie (Jul 14, 2016)

I absolutely understand about not retaining information when you don't sleep!  I have chronic insomnia, and some weeks I can't absorb any information, and I can't remember the name of anything.


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