# Mall Retail Location - Pics added (Pic Heavy)



## Lindy (Jun 19, 2009)

So the mall here in town where I'm at monthly and is my main kiosk - has asked me a couple of times now if I owuld like to go into a retail front there.  Today they showed me a storefront that is being re-frubished and finished for a eye-glasses store who will only be using it for a few months.  This space is gorgeous with an office in the back that I can make my soaps in, and area that I could do custom scenting on lotions, bath salts etc., a space for a proper office and then all kind of retail space in the front area to create a complete retail outlet.

Here's my problem, I am only newly in business, it would tie me into one location, I would need to hire someone to help me out at least 2 days a week for a few hours to allow me time to make soap (I can make non-lye products & still see what is happening out fron, leave it to serve customers and go back), and, and , and I'm a little frightened that this move is going to be too soon.

I'm waiting on them to confirm the rent, triple net, so I can compare my numbers as far as what I'm spending right now, including ferries, accomodation, fuel and eating out.  I'm going to check with my insurance company to see how much the extrea insurance will cost, as well as with City Hall on my licensing.

Do you think I should be incorporated before entering this kind of agreement?  What else do I need to consider?  I can hire through a governmnet organization for disabled people that are higher functioning and the government will pay 50% of their salaries.  There are companies here in town that have had good success with this.

TIA - I'm stressing here.  It wouldn't be until the fall at the earliest....but still stressing - I so want to do everything righrt....


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2009)

Oh Lindy , what a dilemma . A nice one but a dilemma all the same. 
 To me it would depend what my books said .Would  I be assured of making  enoughcash  to cover the expenses and have some extra cash . What kind of a contract do they want ? Would they allow you to keep the lye in the mall?Lye is a really big issue with city hall here.( it is bordering on the ridiculous ). Would you be able to manufacture soap on site , would there be a potential for a customer or their children to be in any way near it. Would you need to pay compensation for the employees ? Could you store FO's there , because of flashpoints etc. Do you want to be tied down to a store, or do you enjoy the travel?
I can see why you are stressing there is a million and 1 things to think about or find out .
Having said all that I say if you really feel in your heart and your gut that it is the right thing to do , go for it . It is a major step for sure. Whatever you decide I wish you all the best.

Kitn


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## Lindy (Jun 19, 2009)

Thanks Kitn - the mall will let me keep all my product there as well as make my soap there (there is even a closed room in the back for just that purpose).  In fact it's one of the carrots he's holding out - he's also willing to  let me be closed Sunday & Monday during regular season.

I'm really glad the space won't be available for a few months....


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2009)

I hear you Lindy , it will give you some time to think about it. 

Kitn


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## AshleyR (Jun 19, 2009)

Wow, that is really exciting! But I can understand why you'd be stressed and scared about it too.

I wonder what the contract would be. If you could test it out for a few months and see how it goes - then go back to your kiosks if it's not working out too well, I'd say give it a try! But, if you need to sign a year contract or something like that, and you're not sure - eeeeek!

I think it would depend on how much more the rent for the retail store would cost over the kiosk, and how good your sales tend to be in your home area.

Hmmmmm, a tricky decision.... good luck!! I do think it would be really cool and convenient to have your very own store.


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## Bigmoose (Jun 19, 2009)

I would say that should depend on how stable you are with your money right now.  Also you said you are there once a month right now so ask yourself  how are my sales at this location?  You might be there 20X more but it will not mean 20X more in sales.  I am conservative and tend to analize things to death.  Don't go with your heart on this one, go with your gut.  We all want to see you do well and wish you the best with whatever you decide.

Bruce


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## heyjude (Jun 19, 2009)

It seems that the mall is really trying hard to accomodate you. I like the short term lease idea.

Another thought- would you still be able to participate in the craft fairs during the holiday season when both the mall  and craft fairs are  in full swing? Not just your physical presence, but making enough product?

Would you be able to keep up with your custom orders?

Is there any possibility that you could clone yourself in the next few months because I think that would be a big help!   

What an exciting time!! 

Jude


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## topcat (Jun 19, 2009)

You are most likely already doing this....I find it helps to draw up a sheet of paper labelled PROS and CONS.  List every positive you can think of for doing this - even ones you have to reach for   - and then do exactly the same for all the negatives.

You will soon see a trend happening.  Don't decide right then.  Wait a few days or a week and do the same thing again.  

I know you will decide on the absolutely best course for you right now.  Have faith in yourself.  You do know what is best for you at this time in your life....it shows in the way you have approached this business from the start.  Whatever you decide will work out, yanno :wink: 

Tanya


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## Lindy (Jun 20, 2009)

You guys are awesome.  I took some pictures of the space today and it turns out that the timing could very well work.  It looks like it won't be ready until after Christmas and I was thinking originally that maybe next spring so I hope I can negotiate it for April.

Kitn thank you for the link - I have read part of it and want to read the rest yet.

I'll post the pictures later today or tomorrow.

Again thank you for your advice I have a lot of thinking to do and it still scares the daylights out of me.....


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## Deda (Jun 20, 2009)

Lindy, I can't wait to see the pics!  What an amazing opportunity!


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## Lindy (Jun 20, 2009)

Thanks Deda!  Okay here are the pictures:

This is the store front - you can see Suzanne's right next door:







This is looking through my Kiosk to the storefront:






Here are the inside pictures:

#1 Looking from Mall entrance to the back - on the left you can see two open offices/spaces.  One has a curved wall (front left) will be my custom scenting area, the one behind would be my office - at the far back on the left is a room for soap making and they would be a ventilation fan in:






Close ups:





















Area for curing racks:






Looking from the back door (outside door) to the mall entrance:






Thanks for all you support and advice!  Still haven't toally made up my mind....


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## Lindy (Jun 20, 2009)

Oh yeah - 3 sinks and this is kitty corner to Walmart...


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2009)

It looks fantastic Lindy ..

Kitn


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## AshleyR (Jun 21, 2009)

Looks like a great space!!!!


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## heyjude (Jun 21, 2009)

I noticed you said "One has a curved wall (front left) *will* be my custom  scenting area, etc..

Hmmm...

The space looks great. Good luck making your decision.    

Jude


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

Okay I missed that  , what is a custom scenting area  ?

Kitn


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## heyjude (Jun 22, 2009)

Ya, Kitn --I was more focused on that fact that Lindy used the word *will,* as in she had subconsciously  made up her mind to rent the space.. 

I'd like to know what a custom scenting area is too. 
It sounds nice.   


Jude


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## Lindy (Jun 22, 2009)

Hmmm you may be right.  I know what needs to occur before I can go into the space, but I am also still waiting on what the rent will be.

Okay a custom scent room.  What I'm thinking is that I would have a large batch of my body butter mixed up, as well as bath salts, lotions, etc. and then the customer can choose their favourite scent to have in it.  So the room would be where we would sit and go through the scents to find the one they prefer and I would mix it up for them right there.

I am also thinking I would have other people's products such as pottery soap dishes and other bath related products on commission.  That would help fill the space and add more variety and stuff to it.

I really do want this space but we'll see what happends.


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2009)

Very cool ideas Lindy


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## KSL (Jun 22, 2009)

That is a great idea to have things from other artsist' in there.
I'm sure there are many artists that would be willing to consign thier soap related goods.  

Soap Dishes...
Crocheted soap bags...
hand-sewn terry robes....

I am so curious as to what mall this is! (since i was born and raised in bc), but not on the sunshine coast (mainland suburbs)... and I don't recognize that store next door!

Not going to try (do it!) and sway you either way (go for it) - you're going to (do it !!) make up your mind (go for it) with what you are comfortable with! 

(no subliminal messages I swear)

WAAAHAHHA.. I just got a bout of home-sickness...


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## Lindy (Jun 22, 2009)

Thanks Kitn - there is even space for a spot where I can do all my packaging and labels too!

KSL - the mall is the Powell River Towne Centre Mall here in Powell River.  We have 2 anchors there - Walmart and Save-On Foods.It's not the type of mall where people usually go to window shop so the people whpo are there are usually there to biy.  Of course that doesn't include the kids after scvhool and Saturdays, although I have sold to a few of them too.


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## KSL (Jun 23, 2009)

I hope everything works out and the rent is low for you!
How fantastic that those eyewear people are renovating it so that you don't have to!

*crossing my fingers for you* that everything works out positively!


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## Lindy (Jun 23, 2009)

Oh yeah - now I just need to get busy on the other end of my business to get this working for me....


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2009)

Any news Lindy , I sure hope it works out for you , if that is what you want.

Kitn


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## Lindy (Jun 27, 2009)

Hi Kitn - no news right now - I'm waiting on additional information from the mall.  I doubt I will make my final decision until the fall.  There are so many pros and cons to this.......

Thanks for asking!

Lindy


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2009)

I hear you you Lindy. Lots to do and think about . I pray that it all goes the way that you would like it to . 

Kitn


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## mandolyn (Jun 29, 2009)

Good luck with this Lindy. I know it's a huge move, but you'll make the right decision & you have time yet to mull it over & make the necessary plans. It just says how great your products are that you were invited.


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## Lindy (Jul 2, 2009)

mandolyn - thank you.....this is such a big decision and TG I have the time to make this decision.  I keep waivering back & forth....  I think it really is going to be determined by a few things that must fall into place first.......


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## ChrissyB (Jul 3, 2009)

Fingers crossed that this all works how you want it to Lindy.
I think you are a bit of a gypsy and you like what you are doing right now with your kiosks and other markets and stuff. But I think the other half of you would enjoy having your own space all pretty and soapy and beautiful and you enjoy having that key to your own store on your key ring, and you would love decorating the place just how you want, and you would enjoy the stability.
Everything will go great either way.
It is a very nice store though.


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## IanT (Jul 3, 2009)

Lindy said:
			
		

> So the mall here in town where I'm at monthly and is my main kiosk - has asked me a couple of times now if I owuld like to go into a retail front there.  Today they showed me a storefront that is being re-frubished and finished for a eye-glasses store who will only be using it for a few months.  This space is gorgeous with an office in the back that I can make my soaps in, and area that I could do custom scenting on lotions, bath salts etc., a space for a proper office and then all kind of retail space in the front area to create a complete retail outlet.
> 
> Here's my problem, I am only newly in business, it would tie me into one location, I would need to hire someone to help me out at least 2 days a week for a few hours to allow me time to make soap (I can make non-lye products & still see what is happening out fron, leave it to serve customers and go back), and, and , and I'm a little frightened that this move is going to be too soon.
> 
> ...




DO it!!!! sounds like a great op!


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## craftydad (Jul 15, 2009)

Yowza!  Looks like a perfect place.  I'd just be careful on the lease...make sure you're not locked in forever, etc., etc, and make sure you have all the licenses and permits that you need.  All that jazz.

I'm jealous.  Would love to have a retail space where I could also make stuff.

Keep us posted!


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## Lindy (Jul 21, 2009)

Thank you - there are so many pro's and as many cons that I just haven't decided.


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2009)

I own a business (not soap) and the hardest decision was when it came time to hire employees. I balked at the paperwork (which doubles). I found a great payroll program www.paycycle.com that took care of everything, even files monthly and quarterly reports electronically. It was a big help that saved me hundreds of dollars in CPA fees.


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## sygrid (Jul 25, 2009)

*Incorporation*

Hi Lindy,

Take your lease to a local commercial realtor and have them look it over for you before you make up your mind and sign anything.  Malls leases can really lock you down.  Ask about 'subletting', ask if your lease is assignable.  If you are able to do either of these you have more latitude if sales are not what you thought they would be.  You have an 'out'.

 The reason to incorporate is to lessen your liability should someone sue you. It guarantees that they can not sue on your personal covenant.  In other words they can only sue for your company assets and not your personal assets..like your bank accounts and your house.  It's great peace of mind.  It will cost you somewhere between 2-4 thousand dollars to incorporate.  But...from that moment on you are no longer just you.  You are now also a corporation, which is its own entity.  So..double the paperwork, double the tax returns, you must file annual reports, all this, pretty hard to do without a bookeeper.  Your corporate tax returns will cost you between $1000.00 and $2000.00 depending where you have them done.  Maybe less at say H&R rather than an accountant.  The general rule of thumb is unless you are upwards of $50,000.00 in sales, there is no need to incorporate unless your business causes a risk to the general public.    I have been incorporated for 15 yrs on the advice of my accountant  which he based solely on income BUT...if I had it to do over...I wouldn't have.  

The mall looks lovely but pay attention to your red flags, they are rarely wrong.

Sygrid


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## Lindy (Jul 27, 2009)

CastorFan - thank you for that information.  Since I do have some bookkeeping background the paperwork is of less a concern than making the right decision for the future of my business - permanent location or mobile.  I still can't decide and I am usually much more decisive than this.

Sygrid - thank you!  I have thought about incorporating and since I know how to do it myself that initial cost is significantly less.  (I've done these before).  At this point with my insurance I'm not going to incorporate just yet.

Everyone - thank you so much for being here for me as I make these decisions.


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## MsBien (Jul 28, 2009)

Hi Lindy,

It has been a while since you first posted this and I checked back to see if you've made your decision.  I see that you are still unsure.   I know that you have gotten a lot of encouragement from everyone here because we all want you to succeed.  

Good luck,
Stacie


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## Lindy (Jul 29, 2009)

Thanks Stacie - the support and encouragement here is fabulous as is the advice.  I have gained so much from this site and the people who are here.


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## Rosey (Jul 29, 2009)

I'm watching this thread too! I know you'll make whatever decision is right for you!


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2009)

Lindy said:
			
		

> Sygrid - thank you!  I have thought about incorporating and since I know how to do it myself that initial cost is significantly less.  (I've done these before).  At this point with my insurance I'm not going to incorporate just yet.



I have a great CPA. When I asked her if my hubby and I should incorporate, she advised me that it would complicate our paperwork for no benefit. She said that incorporation once protected owners to a certain extent. She said that was no longer true -- you can get sued personally, regardless of incorporation.


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## Lindy (Jul 29, 2009)

Yup the corporate veil is being stripped back by businesses and finacial insitutions that you want to do business with by having you sign personal guarantees.  However, if there is not a personal guaranteed in place then at least here in Canada, you can't be personally sued.  According to my Business Advisor who is a CGA once you get to a certain level of sales/profit it makes sense because you can carry expenses over from year to year and defer profits as well, which you can't do as a sole proprietor.  I am so not any where near that level yet so I'm not ready to incorporate.  My only consideration would be if I chose to go into this retail location how would an incorporation protect me personally on the lease.  That would be something I would want to check into.


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## Bnky (Aug 23, 2009)

Lindy:  If the mall requires a personal guarantee, see if you can get a "kick out" (early out or rights of early termination) clause.  These are very common in commercial leases.  Many landlords will allow them, especially in this market.  You may have to pay a fee if you exercise your early out option, but it is another way of protecting yourself from a long lease term if you decide you want to terminate your lease or downsize (you will probably have to fulfill at lease a full year, maybe more in order to get an early out).  In addition, you can ask for a transfer clause or first right of refusal on a larger space (in case you grow).  Also, check the lease to see if it is a % lease.  You would end up paying a % of your profits if it is.  (I have done commerical sales and leasing for over 10 years, but I haven't done % leases, so I am not as familiar with them).  

See if the landlord will give an exclusive on your agreement, so that you are the only soapmaker leasing in the mall.  They probably will not do this in a mall, but you never know.  Many of the franchises will not lease in the same strip center if they do not get this (example might be Subway and Quizno's).  

Protect yourself at renewal also.  Will they put an option to renew in your lease?  If your neighbor has outgrown their space and needs three more bays.  The landlord will not want to lose this tenant, therefore they will lease them the spaces next door upon the expiration of those leases.  But if you have the option to renew, they can not do this unless you are moving out because you have the first option.  Will they put a cap on rent increases upon renewal?  The reason for this is to keep your rents from excalating too high.

Also, many management companies/landlords will give rental concessions.  If the mall has a lot of vacancy, ask for this.  You may be able to get your first months rent free or more.  I've seen some individuals get up to a year free if they are doing their own extensive buildout.  In commercial RE, you can ask for anything, the worst most landlords will do in this market is counteroffer your request.  

And last, but not least... read everything on the lease...it is important.  Show it to an attorney if you do not understand it.  I hope this info helps you (and doesn't overwhelm).  If I can think of anything else off the top of my head I'll let you know.  Good Luck to you and Congratulations! Bnky


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## Lindy (Aug 23, 2009)

Bnky - wow that is wonderful information and advice!  Thank you!!!  I've decided to take my aromatherapist "offocial" training so I can become a certified clinical armoatherapist as part of my business.  It looks like it will be a March start date because at this point unless I could get in the space next month it will be too close to Christmas and everyone knows where to find me within the mall right now so that's where they will look for me over the season.  I don't want to go in right after Christmas because sales will be so slow and remain That way until March.  It sounds like we are going to work out a lease where they start me very inexpenisvely and then work with my as my business grows to increase the rent until I am at full rent.  They should have everything together for me next month once all the "big" guys are back from holidays.  I've looked into licensing for aromatherapists in Canada and there isnt't anything, we are not a governed industry.

So at this point I am really leaning towards taking the space, but I am still feeling cautious until I have the offer and have had an opportunity to review it with my notary to make sure my interests are taken care of and protected.

Again thank you so much for the info!

Cheers
Lindy


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## Bnky (Aug 24, 2009)

Lindy, Good for you!  I think you will do wonderful there.  The space looks very nice in the pictures and it sounds like the management company is flexible and working hard to lease it to you.  Arometherapist official training; that opens even more posibilities for your space! It sounds like you have really thought this through. I wish you a very prosperous future grand opening!  Bnky


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