# Less soap scum with homemade/natural soaps?



## RogueRose (Aug 28, 2015)

I just realized that I have not needed to clean my shower anywhere near as often as I used to before I started using home-made soaps.  I have significantly less soap scum and that flaky white "lime" (not from hard water though...) like build-up since switching.  I used to have to clean every 2-3 months and II could probably have gotten away with not cleaning the floor/bottom of the shower, glass door or shower walls in 12-14 months!  

It is really amazing.  The shower floor is barely showing dirt at all after a LONG time.  

Has anyone else noticed this from the soaps?


----------



## Obsidian (Aug 28, 2015)

Usually its the exact opposite. I get a lot more soap scum with handmade soaps and its harder to clean out of the tub.


----------



## galaxyMLP (Aug 28, 2015)

I have the same experience as obsidian. I NEVER had any soap scum before making handmade soap and now its all over. I'm adding a chelator now so its a little better.


----------



## shunt2011 (Aug 28, 2015)

I agree with the other two....I've had more soap scum since I've used handmade soap.  I'm going to start adding a chelator to help with it.


----------



## gigisiguenza (Aug 28, 2015)

What's a chelator?


----------



## galaxyMLP (Aug 28, 2015)

Chelators are chemicals that bind up or inactivate other chemicals. In this case we use chelators to chelate (bind and inactivate) other metals in hard water that form soap scum.

Soap scum is actually made up of insoluble salts of fatty acids. Sodium and potassium salts of fatty acids (bar and liquid soap respectively) are soluble in water and don't contribute to soap scum. However, dissolved calcium and magnesium (or other metals) found in hard water will also make salts with fatty acids. Those salts are not soluble in water and thus form a slimy scum.

Chelators bind to those free metals and stop them from binding to the fatty acids and so the soap scum doesnt form.

Its not 100% effective but it sure does help!

One more thing: Examples of chelators are Sodium Citrate and Tetrasodium EDTA. You can search them on the forum and find boatloads of great info (and more in depth explanations from Dee)


----------



## FerrisWheel (Aug 28, 2015)

So why not use de-ionised water?


----------



## shunt2011 (Aug 28, 2015)

FerrisWheel said:


> So why not use de-ionised water?


 
Because it happens when you are showering.  I use distilled water to make my soap but when you use it in the shower is where the problem lies.  So a chelator helps avoid the soap scum in the tub.  My water isn't really hard but apparently it's got enough stuff in it to cause a bit of an issue with soap scum.


----------



## galaxyMLP (Aug 28, 2015)

Ferris, its not about what you make the soap with in this case although that does help alot. Its about when you use the soap in the shower/bath. No amount of super pure water when you make the soap can combat that (and this girl right here has ultra pure water from the lab she works at, to make soap!). 

The sodium ions in our bar soap are not permanently attached to the fatty acid portion and in water, when the bar soap dissolves, they can be "bumped" free by another metal like calcium or magnesium. Thats why soap scum will form even after you make the soap and while you are showering with it.


----------



## cmzaha (Aug 28, 2015)

I am with everyone, using a chelator helps considerably  but I still get more soap scum than I do when I used commercial bars


----------



## gigisiguenza (Aug 28, 2015)

Ah ok, so a chelation combats the effect hard water has on the soap, which in turn helps reduce soap scum. Ty


----------



## not_ally (Aug 28, 2015)

Commercial soaps must use tons of chelators (often there seems to be a combo).  I never had any scum using syndets, started noticing it w/MP, and then, with CP, came the deluge.  I had a huge amt of scum (I do use a lot of lard, which is supposed too be a bad oil for that), but using a chelator/EDTA has reduced it a *lot*.


----------



## galaxyMLP (Aug 28, 2015)

Now the question becomes:

Why is OP experiencing less scum?


----------



## Obsidian (Aug 28, 2015)

Maybe she has really soft water?


----------



## Saponista (Aug 28, 2015)

Our water is rated at a hardness of zero on the scale and I still get lots of scum even with sodium citrate. My shower is looking decidedly grimy and we have visitors at the weekend so it needs an overhaul. Not my favourite job!


----------



## not_ally (Aug 28, 2015)

The weird thing is that regardless of the water, the OP is getting *less* scum with home-made soap than store-bought bars, that really is a strange result that suggests that it has more to do w/the soap than the water.  The only thing I can think is that the bought ones had something in them that increased scum (no chelators?  high amounts of scum producing oils?) and her home made recipe/s have less of those factors.  That makes it sound like the bought ones are CP, though, which I think she indicated was not the case.  V. strange.


----------



## galaxyMLP (Aug 28, 2015)

not_ally said:


> The weird thing is that regardless of the water, the OP is getting *less* scum with home-made soap than store-bought bars, that really is a strange result that suggests that it has more to do w/the soap than the water.  The only thing I can think is that the bought ones had something in them that increased scum (no chelators?  high amounts of scum producing oils?) and her home made recipe/s have less of those factors.  That makes it sound like the bought ones are CP, though, which I think she indicated was not the case.  V. strange.



That was why it was weird to me. Unless  water quality/type changed or he/she got a water softener, then it just doesnt make much sense.


----------



## kumudini (Aug 28, 2015)

What if the OP is already using a chelator in their recipes or zero super fat.Even then, one year is a really long time to not see scum in my opinion. I hope it's not a joke of some kind.


----------



## galaxyMLP (Aug 28, 2015)

Superfat wont effect the amount of soap scum. Its the soap itself that makes soap scum and not the excess fat from a superfat. Maybe you are right and OP is already using a chelator?


----------



## kumudini (Aug 28, 2015)

yes I know that SF doesn't effect the amount of scum but it definitely adds layers on the scum that's already there. That's why I promptly came down to 5-7 SF from the outrageous 12 in my first two batches.


----------



## galaxyMLP (Aug 28, 2015)

I guess I didn't think that the extra oils in the soap would adhere to the soap scum. Hmm, I learned something new. Thank you!


----------



## Dorado (Aug 31, 2015)

I don't have any soapscum in my tiled showers. (I have a house with hard water, and another with soft water, no diff.)
Maybe it is because I never use hair-conditioner? or
Maybe SOL in soap prevent soap-scum?


----------



## galaxyMLP (Aug 31, 2015)

What is SOL?


----------



## LBussy (Aug 31, 2015)

I end up cleaning a lot of antique razors and soap scum on those is ridiculous.  Scrubbing Bubbles eats it like candy (ew!).  So, that's what I use in my sink and shower now.  

That being said I had an occasion to try IL's shaving soap for the last few days and there was no residue ... if she tells you how she does that, listen!


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Aug 31, 2015)

LBussy said:


> I end up cleaning a lot of antique razors and soap scum on those is ridiculous.  Scrubbing Bubbles eats it like candy (ew!).  So, that's what I use in my sink and shower now.
> 
> That being said I had an occasion to try IL's shaving soap for the last few days and there was no residue ... if she tells you how she does that, listen!




If the secret is the clay, I'm growing a beard!


----------



## LBussy (Aug 31, 2015)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> If the secret is the clay, I'm growing a beard!


Nah, it's not the clay.


----------



## Dorado (Aug 31, 2015)

galaxyMLP said:


> What is SOL?



SOdium Lactate


----------



## Dahila (Aug 31, 2015)

I do not believe in that OP.   Even commercial soaps leave soap scum.  Sodium citrate helps and SL I think help too.  Soft water would be the key


----------



## IrishLass (Aug 31, 2015)

LBussy said:


> I end up cleaning a lot of antique razors and soap scum on those is ridiculous. Scrubbing Bubbles eats it like candy (ew!). So, that's what I use in my sink and shower now.
> 
> That being said I had an occasion to try IL's shaving soap for the last few days and there was no residue ... if she tells you how she does that, listen!


 

Lee is correct- it's not clay (I would not have dared to send him a shave soap with clay in it without having a will written up, lol) It is actually an ancient Irish secret :shh: If I told you...well....you know what they say. :mrgreen: 

Well... okay.... no, not really.  It's nothing more than tetrasodium EDTA @ .5% of my total batch weight. It _really_ works wonders at cutting down on the scum. 


IrishLass


----------



## RogueRose (Sep 2, 2015)

Sorry I didn't get back to this thread earlier, I don't do anything special to my soaps, all are CP.  for about 3 months I used 100% castile.  Before I was using Ivory for a number of years.  

Unless someone is coming in and cleaning, then this isn't a joke .  The water hasn't changed either.  

IDK what the deal is.  I thought I would see a lot of other people agreeing with me about this.  I have a feeling that it might have been the soap I was using before.


----------

