# Prices



## John Harris (Dec 10, 2021)

How do you calculate what you charge for a bar of soap?  My bars weigh 6.5 ounces and I only charge $4 a bar.  Does anyone charge a dollar and ounce, maybe?


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## Misschief (Dec 10, 2021)

My bars are 100 grams and I charge $7.00 per bar or 3 for $20


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## Cat&Oak (Dec 10, 2021)

That's a bargain for such a big bar of soap. ❤

I know I always put Kenna's stuff on here but I think she is really smart! This is a super article and I hope it helps you. Really you can charge whatever you want John. 









						Know the True Cost of Your Handmade Soap
					

Guess what? It doesn’t matter what other soapmakers think about your pricing. So, it's up to you to do the work of correctly pricing your soap so that your business is set up for profitability.




					www.modernsoapmaking.com


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## CreativeWeirdo (Dec 10, 2021)

I would say, first figure out how much each bar costs in raw materials.  Then go from there.  I don't sell my soap, but I used to sell homemade jewelry.  I would charge double my cost of supplies; more if it was something super intricate and took a lot of time.  Sometimes I make custom costumes for friends and I charge them double the cost of supplies, firm.  We go pick out fabric together, so they are well informed the whole time.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 11, 2021)

Full costs, including your time at your hourly rate * 2 for wholesale orders. Wholesale * 2 for retail. That is a pretty standard calculation for pricing, but can be tweaked -

If the price comes out at 5.03 per bar, 5 fits much better, or 4.97 also gets rounded to 5. And if your price is way below the standard price around, you night be paying yourself too little and can adjust the price up to match (undercutting the market is actually bad for everyone involved) and if it comes out too high then you need to look at lowing your costs - the most expensive part will be your time, so doubling your batch size reduces the cost per bar by a great deal. 

That's a massive issue with people who are only selling to cover their costs rather than make a business of it - they often end up undercutting the market and can make properly priced soap seem expensive


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## Vicki C (Dec 11, 2021)

Geography matters too. If I were in a different part of the US I would charge more. My bars are priced at $6, $7, or $8 depending on size (3.7 - 6 oz) and complexity. $4 for a 6.5 ounce bar seems very inexpensive.


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## Babyshoes (Dec 11, 2021)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> That's a massive issue with people who are only selling to cover their costs rather than make a business of it - they often end up undercutting the market and can make properly priced soap seem expensive



Yes, this is an issue for any hand crafted items, and is why it's awfully hard for people to make a living selling their handmade crafts. I generally suggest (when the topic comes up) that hobbyists charge (at the very least) materials costs plus minimum wage, and don't forget to charge for time spent photographing, selling, packaging etc, plus a little for water, electricity, rent and so on. They will probably still be cheaper than others, but likely in the right ballpark at least... 

(If there is no minimum wage in your area, base it on the hourly rate you'd expect if working in a supermarket, or similar.)


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## dibbles (Dec 11, 2021)

$4 seems low to me too for that size of a bar (Canadian or US both). Montreal is a big enough city that I would think people would be used to paying more for a small luxury item like handmade soap. If your plans going forward are to sell, as in have a business, I'd get more in the ballpark of what you hope to charge for your bars when that happens. If you know you don't want a business in the future, but want to sell to friends and coworkers to keep the soap from piling up price it at whatever feels right to you. I'd raise the price to $5 at least for a bar that big.


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## Misschief (Dec 11, 2021)

I should add that I've been monitoring my costs (as one must do if one sells) and I know that I'll have to raise my prices next season. My COG (cost of goods) has gone up quite a bit this year. Unfortunately.



Misschief said:


> My bars are 100 grams and I charge $7.00 per bar or 3 for $20


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## John Harris (Dec 12, 2021)

So!  The soap show is over.  Five people attended.  I was selling at 5 for $20.  I took in $380.  Not bad.  I was surprised to see people buying 20 and 25 bars of soap!  (Christmas is coming.) And they certainly get excited over it!  And, the host served wine!  I had to pay my host, and my organizer, and the host's brother $20 each for their time and inconvenience. There were many requests for special orders - Peppermint Oatmeal, Lavender, Eucalyptus, Bay Laurel, to name a few.  I really have to figure out how much it costs to produce a marketable bar of soap.

All in all, it was a nice way to spend a Sunday afternoon. And it was nice to move out some of the TON of soap I have sitting around in my basement.


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## Ugeauxgirl (Dec 12, 2021)

Glad it went well.  It cleared out your stash so you can make more soap, and now you have money for supplies.  Win, Win!  There was a small Christmas market in my small town this weekend.  3 vendors selling soap- 2 vendors selling soap for $10 a bar and 1 for $8.50 a bar


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## John Harris (Dec 12, 2021)

$10 a bar!  Must be a lot better soap than what I make!  Someday...


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 13, 2021)

Again, as to pricing - let's say that you made 1/4 of that 380, based on 2 x costs = wholesale, 2 x wholesale = retail = 95. Take from that the 60 paid to the three people, leaves you with 35 as pay for the day


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## math ace (Dec 13, 2021)

The price is way too low.  Our local Publix grocery is selling cold process soap with essential oils .... Cut into various loaves for around $1.70 ounce.


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## math ace (Dec 13, 2021)

Did you calculate your costs before pricing the bars?   

Did you shop the local craft venues to comparison price?

Have you priced what it's going to cost to make the same quantity again?  The prices of everything has gone up this year.  It will cost you more to make the next batch of soaps.


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## Vicki C (Dec 13, 2021)

That’s great John! It’s $380 that you wouldn’t have had, and it is so much fun to see people be happy with your soap. You may decide to up your prices, but I appreciate your excitement! You must have terrific soap. Those customers will all be back.


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## ResolvableOwl (Dec 13, 2021)

John Harris said:


> $10 a bar!  Must be a lot better soap than what I make!  Someday...


Double the amount of St. Joseph's oil … double the price  … just my 4 cents.

Seriously, pricing is difficult, even (and particularly) when you don't do it for a living. Sell paintings? Chocolate? Invite to a small house concert? You don't want to get rich from it, but you also don't want to undercut those for whom it's their day job… You don't want simple, straightforward products to appear as if they were elitist luxury, but self-exploitation doesn't serve anybody either.


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## lucycat (Dec 13, 2021)

Over the years I have had several customers purchase for an office for small Christmas gifts.   The nicest part is that I usually hear from a few.  Selling 30-35 bars to one person is a good way to get your name out because there will be lots of people who use your soap.


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## John Harris (Dec 13, 2021)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Again, as to pricing - let's say that you made 1/4 of that 380, based on 2 x costs = wholesale, 2 x wholesale = retail = 95. Take from that the 60 paid to the three people, leaves you with 35 as pay for the day


Guess I won't quit my day job!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 13, 2021)

Vicki C said:


> That’s great John! It’s $380 that you wouldn’t have had, and it is so much fun to see people be happy with your soap. You may decide to up your prices, but I appreciate your excitement! You must have terrific soap. Those customers will all be back.


I mean, he could have also not made so much soap and not spent the money on ingredients and the stand at the fair and saved the 380 to start with! But then I am one of those who think that if you're making too much soap to be able to use or reasonably give away, you can just make less soap instead of selling off soaps that you didn't make to sell


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## Cat&Oak (Dec 13, 2021)

John Harris said:


> $10 a bar!  Must be a lot better soap than what I make!  Someday...


When I had my business after figuring out ALL of my expenses I was charging $9 to $9.50 for a 4.5 ounce bar. Nevada is an expensive place to live. Friends and family had no issues with that price. Grats on your party glad it went well.
 You could probably sell on Etsy there are a bazillion hobby soapers who only price to cover the cost of supplies there.


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## glendam (Dec 13, 2021)

Cat&Oak said:


> That's a bargain for such a big bar of soap. ❤
> 
> I know I always put Kenna's stuff on here but I think she is really smart! This is a super article and I hope it helps you. Really you can charge whatever you want John.
> 
> ...



I agree that she is very smart and has had a successful soap business, which she sold and it is still going.  I remember watching a video of hers where she had sum it up (at that time, a couple years ago) to the minimum price being $1.50 per oz., for a plain bar (no color, no design. basic oils), and increasing from that point based on the extra time and materials.


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## John Harris (Dec 14, 2021)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> I mean, he could have also not made so much soap and not spent the money on ingredients and the stand at the fair and saved the 380 to start with! But then I am one of those who think that if you're making too much soap to be able to use or reasonably give away, you can just make less soap instead of selling off soaps that you didn't make to sell


Too much soap!  What a concept!      It's fun being surrounded by this much soap!

I have been through many hobbies in my life and they all end up being the same way - I jump in with both feet and end up with much more product than I could possibly use.  Take my beer making phase, for instance.  I used to make 5 gallons, two times a week.  I was swimming in beer.  I own 60 watches and 100 tobacco pipes.  Shelves and shelves of Archie comics.  I could go on...


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## Cat&Oak (Dec 14, 2021)

John Harris said:


> Too much soap!  What a concept!      It's fun being surrounded by this much soap!
> 
> I have been through many hobbies in my life and they all end up being the same way - I jump in with both feet and end up with much more product than I could possibly use.  Take my beer making phase, for instance.  I used to make 5 gallons, two times a week.  I was swimming in beer.  I own 60 watches and 100 tobacco pipes.  Shelves and shelves of Archie comics.  I could go on...


Nothing wrong with that friend you just have a lot of passion for what you do!


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## John Harris (Dec 14, 2021)

Cat&Oak said:


> Nothing wrong with that friend you just have a lot of passion for what you do!


Passion ...  or Bipolar Affective Disorder


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## Cat&Oak (Dec 14, 2021)

John Harris said:


> Passion ...  or Bipolar Affective Disorder


Your not alone! I have to take meds twice a day every day for severe depression and anxiety


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## John Harris (Dec 14, 2021)

Cat&Oak said:


> Your not alone! I have to take meds twice a day every day for severe depression and anxiety


Wanna get married?   LOL


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## Cat&Oak (Dec 14, 2021)

John Harris said:


> Wanna get married?   LOL


Well sorry John I've been married for 33 years now. My husband is a Saint


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## Kiti Williams (Dec 14, 2021)

Ugeauxgirl said:


> Glad it went well.  It cleared out your stash so you can make more soap, and now you have money for supplies.  Win, Win!  There was a small Christmas market in my small town this weekend.  3 vendors selling soap- 2 vendors selling soap for $10 a bar and 1 for $8.50 a bar




Wow!  I sold mine for $7.00 per bar for the fancy ones and $5.00 per plain old blocks.  I do sell "tastes" of my soap. when I have extra from what the mold will hold, I pour the excess into candy molds, those went for $1.00.


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## TheGecko (Dec 14, 2021)

When it comes to pricing your soaps, there are three things to consider...actual costs, profit margin and market.

Actual Costs - When calculating your costs, there is first the costs of your actual ingredients to make the soap...base oils, lye/water and additives...and these costs should include your shipping costs.  As an example, I purchased a 4 oz bottle of XXXXX for $9.90, but my actual cost is $12.66 when you portion the cost of shipping.  You need to also add in the cost of your packaging...for me that is a box and label.  Then there is the cost of my labor...from making the soap to packaging the soap for sale...this should be at least minimum wage for your area times 25%.  Then you have 'overhead'...this includes 'rent', utilities like electric, water/sewer, garbage, advertising, telephone, website, etc.  When I calculate all the above, a bar of soap costs me around $3.00 each.

Profit Margin - Depending on your sales, this can be anywhere from 20% to 50%. Remember, this is money in the bank (that you pay taxes on). I try to keep it around 30%.

Market - This is what folks are willing to pay for your soap. I my neck of the woods...that's $6.00.

A note about Special Orders; you want to be careful about this so you don't end up with a bunch of soap you can't sell. I have a few special orders and I treat them the same as a Wholesale Order. Minimum is a 10-bar loaf; fully cured, cut and then wrapped (tissue paper if local, bubble wrap if shipped). You get a wholesale price if it's a soap I carry in stock, but it's full retail if it is something I have to order. Example...my BIL orders a loaf of Chocolate Expresso...it's something I carry in stock and he just wants it cut and stuff in any box so I charge him $40. On the other hand, one of my crafting friends wanted a specific fragrance...two loaves, one loaf packaged for gifts; I charged her full retail for both since lack of package for one loaf was offset by the shipping costs of the fragrance.


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## John Harris (Dec 14, 2021)

TheGecko said:


> When it comes to pricing your soaps, there are three things to consider...actual costs, profit margin and market.
> 
> Actual Costs - When calculating your costs, there is first the costs of your actual ingredients to make the soap...base oils, lye/water and additives...and these costs should include your shipping costs.  As an example, I purchased a 4 oz bottle of XXXXX for $9.90, but my actual cost is $12.66 when you portion the cost of shipping.  You need to also add in the cost of your packaging...for me that is a box and label.  Then there is the cost of my labor...from making the soap to packaging the soap for sale...this should be at least minimum wage for your area times 25%.  Then you have 'overhead'...this includes 'rent', utilities like electric, water/sewer, garbage, advertising, telephone, website, etc.  When I calculate all the above, a bar of soap costs me around $3.00 each.
> 
> ...


Wow!  Thanks, Gecko!  I never planned to get into sales, but I kind of got conscripted into it.  I really need to sit down and figure it out.


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## Ugeauxgirl (Dec 14, 2021)

Cat&Oak said:


> Well sorry John I've been married for 33 years now. My husband is a Saint


Mine too!


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## maryloucb (Dec 14, 2021)

I just created a spreadsheet so I know exactly how much each bar of soap costs me to make. I would say at the very minimum, you should be doubling your costs, and if you actually want to make more than just what covers your costs, double that again for retail. I just started selling, and I priced my bars a little less than what another established soapmaker with her own brick and mortar store sells for. I also do a deal for friends/family. It's more than 4x my costs, but not a lot more. I live in a small touristy resort town, so I can charge a little more.


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## CreativeWeirdo (Dec 14, 2021)

John Harris said:


> I have been through many hobbies in my life and they all end up being the same way - I jump in with both feet and end up with much more product than I could possibly use.





Cat&Oak said:


> Nothing wrong with that friend you just have a lot of passion for what you do!



Peeps!  I know what you mean!  Living with C-PTSD, my hobbies are my only friends.


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## TheGecko (Dec 14, 2021)

John Harris said:


> Wow!  Thanks, Gecko!  I never planned to get into sales, but I kind of got conscripted into it.  I really need to sit down and figure it out.



I recommend SoapMaker3...it's a one time fee for the professional edition.  I happily paid for it when, putting a new order away, discovered I had multiple bottles of the same FO.  Enter your recipes and your purchases and it will tell you how much your soap costs based on current inventory.

I haven't used it as much as I should, but that is going to change this next year.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 15, 2021)

John Harris said:


> Too much soap!  What a concept!      It's fun being surrounded by this much soap!
> 
> I have been through many hobbies in my life and they all end up being the same way - I jump in with both feet and end up with much more product than I could possibly use.  Take my beer making phase, for instance.  I used to make 5 gallons, two times a week.  I was swimming in beer.  I own 60 watches and 100 tobacco pipes.  Shelves and shelves of Archie comics.  I could go on...


I can understand that - I've recently gotten in to brewing mead (with a natural yeast that I cultured) and there are things like leatherwork which I dabble in as part of bushcraft - but even in those I tend to make what I need, even though I really enjoy the processes involved. 

I think it's partly my Scottish heritage, I can't be wasteful and so want to see that the soap/mead is good or bad before making another batch! 

(And my darling wife has limited me to 5 pipes, and no more than 7 straight razors.......)


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## MelissaG (Dec 15, 2021)

My bars are around 5 ounces and I charge $7 a bar, $5 for clearance soaps. Although I'm getting tired of those clearance ones not selling so I might just donate them. I think you're charging too low. It should be cost times three. I really don't like a times four scenario because I find it greedy but that's my personal feeling on it. I don't need to be rich, I just want to be comfortable and not have to work for someone else again.


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## Cat&Oak (Dec 15, 2021)

MelissaG said:


> My bars are around 5 ounces and I charge $7 a bar, $5 for clearance soaps. Although I'm getting tired of those clearance ones not selling so I might just donate them. I think you're charging too low. It should be cost times three. I really don't like a times four scenario because I find it greedy but that's my personal feeling on it. I don't need to be rich, I just want to be comfortable and not have to work for someone else again.


It's not greedy to price higher. The major soapmakers that actually make a living off soap charge $11-15 a bar. If selling soap is actually your only income $7 a bar is not even close to providing you a livable income.


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## ResolvableOwl (Dec 15, 2021)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> (And my darling wife has limited me to 5 pipes, and no more than 7 straight razors.......)


(What an admirable lady! )


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 16, 2021)

Cat&Oak said:


> It's not greedy to price higher. The major soapmakers that actually make a living off soap charge $11-15 a bar. If selling soap is actually your only income $7 a bar is not even close to providing you a livable income.


Exactly this! 

Not all of the money from the 4*cost as retail should end up in your pocket - you pay yourself a wage from the company. The rest stays in the company for investment in/replacement of equipment and the like. R&D, making smaller test batches of something new. Things of that nature


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## Vicki C (Dec 16, 2021)

TheGecko said:


> I recommend SoapMaker3...it's a one time fee for the professional edition.  I happily paid for it when, putting a new order away, discovered I had multiple bottles of the same FO.  Enter your recipes and your purchases and it will tell you how much your soap costs based on current inventory.
> 
> I haven't used it as much as I should, but that is going to change this next year.


As an Apple user I’m frustrated that SoapMaker is only for Windows. It would be helpful to me.


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## TheGecko (Dec 16, 2021)

MelissaG said:


> I really don't like a times four scenario because I find it greedy but that's my personal feeling on it. I don't need to be rich, I just want to be comfortable and not have to work for someone else again.



It's not 'greed' to charge market price for a 'want'.  Greed is charging $300 for a need like insulin that only costs the company $20.  

I second @Cat&Oak.  Labor on my soap is calculated at minimum wage in my state which is $12.00/hour. This is what I would pay someone to cut, plane, bevel, box and label my soap (an actual soap maker would earn more), but in my non-soaping life I'm a Senior Staff Accountant for a CPA firm; needless to say my gross pay is a lot more than $12.00/hour.  At $6.00 per bar, I would need to sell about 350 bars a week to replace my wages...that's a lot of freaking soap, which means that I would have to hire someone to help me.  Hiring someone means less money for me...unless I raise the price of my soap to cover the additional expense.

And as noted by @The Efficacious Gentleman, there is more to running a business than direct costs and overhead. I started out with a couple of 10" Loaf molds and a knife, then I bought a cheese slicer, then came a single-bar soap cutter. I'm in the process of purchasing 6-5lb Loaf molds (waiting for the liners to come back in stock). I'm also going to be spending around $300 on a fancy beveler for my 'brand'. After that, I will need a multi-bar cutter and that's around $300. And going from 33oz of oils per batch to 63oz, I'm going to need bigger bowls to mix my soap. I got my scale and stick blender pretty cheap on Amazon two years ago, but I'm going to need to replace both next year...and that costs money. I'm also going to need to get a new printer...more money.

While I have a 'tried and true' recipe and I have a good dozen "stock" soaps, I'll also be rotating and having seasonal scents. Anything new...whether it's completely new scent or I have to change suppliers means making test batches and that cost money. And I eventually plan on making more than just soap...I want to add Lotion Bars, Whipped Body Butter, Salt and Sugar Scrubs, and Bath Salts. All of this costs money...developing the right recipe, additional ingredients, molds, tins, labels, jars, bands, bags and equipment. I've already spent several hundred dollars on my Lotion Bars and haven't made a dime yet.

Speaking of work...gotta go and make the donuts.


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## John Harris (Dec 16, 2021)

I did some math and came out with 99 cents for a bar of soap.  That is JUST for the oils and lye.  (I THINK I did the math correctly!  It is Price Per Gram = Total Price divided by Total Weight, I hope.  Then you multiply that by the number of grams for each oil in your recipe.)

How do you factor in colorants?  They are expensive, but you only use a couple of teaspoons per batch.  (And take the Sodium Lactate, for example.  I use 3-and-a-little tablespoons per batch.  Kinda hard to calculate the "and-a-little" portion.   )   Then there is the paper for your labels.  The printer ink to print the labels. The stickers to affix the label.  I'm sure there are other costs I am forgetting.


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## dibbles (Dec 16, 2021)

John Harris said:


> I'm sure there are other costs I am forgetting.


Did you include the fragrance cost? That is one of the biggest expenses per batch, at least for me.


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## John Harris (Dec 16, 2021)

OH JEEZ...  I forgot the fragrance!!!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 17, 2021)

And your time - set an hourly rate and factor that in, too


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## TheGecko (Dec 17, 2021)

John Harris said:


> I did some math and came out with 99 cents for a bar of soap.  That is JUST for the oils and lye.  (I THINK I did the math correctly!  It is Price Per Gram = Total Price divided by Total Weight, I hope.  Then you multiply that by the number of grams for each oil in your recipe.)
> 
> How do you factor in colorants?  They are expensive, but you only use a couple of teaspoons per batch.  (And take the Sodium Lactate, for example.  I use 3-and-a-little tablespoons per batch.  Kinda hard to calculate the "and-a-little" portion.   )   Then there is the paper for your labels.  The printer ink to print the labels. The stickers to affix the label.  I'm sure there are other costs I am forgetting.



When calculating the cost of your ingredients are you including the cost of shipping? The easiest way of doing this is on a dollar per dollar basis. You take the cost of shipping and divide it by the sub-total of the items your are ordering ($17.53 / 67.89 = $0.2582118132272794). You then multiply that by the total cost of the item ($38.00 x 0.2582118132272794 = $9.812048902636618). Then you add that to the total cost of the item ($38.00 + 9.812048902636618 = $47.81204890263662). They you divide that by your unit of measurement ($47.81 / 200 = $0.24). So my actual cost per soap box isn't $0.19, it's $0.24.

To calculate the cost of volume on items sold by weight, you have to weigh the volume. So how much does a tablespoon of Sodium Lactate weigh? How much does a teaspoon of Mica weigh? This is one of the things I love about SoapMaker3...it does these calculations for me.

So...when calculating your costs you start with your Base Oils, Lye/Water and your standard Additives (like Sodium Lactate or Kaolin Clay or Tussah Silk, etc). For me, (10-4.5oz bars) that's $0.87 a bar (it should be noted that my SM3 hasn't been updated in quite a while so I'm working off old costs and it includes waste and shrinkage). But I'm not making a plain bar of soap, I want add Lavender FO and Lavender Mica...my costs just went up to $1.48 bar. Of course, I can't just hand my customer a bar of soap...it's needs to be packaged and labeled. My costs just went to $1.76 a bar. 

And then there is my labor...this can be difficult to calculate. How long does it take to make a batch of soap (from getting out your ingredients to cleaning up)? How long does it take to unmold, cut, plane, bevel, stamp, box and label? Add to this, I MasterBatch....and I usually do this when I'm making soap 'cuz I'm big on multi-tasking. Add to this, it takes me just as long to make a test batch (4 bars) as it does a small batch (10 bars) as it does a regular batch (18 bars), though there is a time difference once I start processing the unmolded soap. It also takes me less time to make a single color soap is it does to make a 2-color drop/chopstick swirl. Once you figure an average time for your batch size, then how much do you pay yourself? My soap would be cost prohibitive if I paid myself the same wage for soap making that I do for my regular job so I look to what I would pay someone...I just use minimum wage for my state...$12.00. So now the cost of my soap is $2.96 a bar.

Oh...and 'direct/indirect overhead'...can't forget about that. This is 'rent', electric, gas, water/sewer, internet, garbage, telephone, website, business cards, business license, insurance (property and product), general office supplies, printer ink, merchant/banking fees. Some of these, what I would call 'indirect' expenses (in red) can be calculated the same way the IRS does for 'Business Use of Your Home'. You calculate the percentage of your home used for business and then multiply it by the total of your indirect expense. Add that to your direct expense and then divide by the total number of bars you could reasonably produce if you worked 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.

Or you could just take your base ingredients times two.


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## John Harris (Dec 17, 2021)

Plodding along...

For a 40 bar batch:
Oils and lye - 0.99 a bar
Fragrance - 0.50 a bar
Labor - 0.94 a bar   (at $18.75 an hour x 2 hours)
Shipping - 0.60 a bar
Tax - 0.20 a bar

Total - $3.23 a bar

Still unaccounted for:
Colorants
Labels
Ink
Stickers


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## John Harris (Dec 17, 2021)

@TheGecko  You wrote:  "Or you could just take your base ingredients times two. "

Is that a legitimate path or are you just joking?  If serious, What qualify as "base ingredients"?


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## John Harris (Dec 17, 2021)

TheGecko said:


> When calculating the cost of your ingredients are you including the cost of shipping? The easiest way of doing this is on a dollar per dollar basis. You take the cost of shipping and divide it by the sub-total of the items your are ordering ($17.53 / 67.89 = $0.2582118132272794). You then multiply that by the total cost of the item ($38.00 x 0.2582118132272794 = $9.812048902636618). Then you add that to the total cost of the item ($38.00 + 9.812048902636618 = $47.81204890263662). They you divide that by your unit of measurement ($47.81 / 200 = $0.24). So my actual cost per soap box isn't $0.19, it's $0.24.
> 
> To calculate the cost of volume on items sold by weight, you have to weigh the volume. So how much does a tablespoon of Sodium Lactate weigh? How much does a teaspoon of Mica weigh? This is one of the things I love about SoapMaker3...it does these calculations for me.
> 
> ...


Wow...  I don't like this game anymore....      

(BTW.  Thanks for this long, informative post, Geck!)


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## TheGecko (Dec 17, 2021)

John Harris said:


> Is that a legitimate path or are you just joking?  If serious, What qualify as "base ingredients"?



For me...Base ingredients would be Base Oils/Butters, Lye and Fragrance since those are my biggest costs. Distilled Water, Sodium Lactate, Kaolin Clay, colorants...add fifty cents. I know some folks really get into the Additives...Coconut Cream, Tussah Silk, various powders.



> Wow... I don't like this game anymore....



Which is why I use SoapMaker3 Pro...it does [most] all the calculating for me.  



> (BTW. Thanks for this long, informative post, Geck!)



Definitely long. LOL A lot of it comes from watching a few soap makers 'rant' about all the things folks never told them about getting in the soap making business. Ya know...make some soap, sell it for a lot of money, get rich quick, sit on the beach sipping drinks with umbrellas in them. The reality is...it's a lot of freaking hard work...and it's expensive. I have easily spent over $3500 the last 2 1/2 years and I haven't even officially started selling soap. And I'll probably spend another $500 to $750 before I do.


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## John Harris (Dec 17, 2021)

TheGecko said:


> Which is why I use SoapMaker3 Pro...it does [most] all the calculating for me.



Is there much of a learning curve to it?


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## John Harris (Dec 17, 2021)

@TheGecko "I haven't even officially started selling soap."
Neither have I.  The holiday season has produced a lot of interest and so there are lots of sales.  With that comes the question of costs, etc.  After the holidays I figure things will settle down.


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## CreativeWeirdo (Dec 17, 2021)

Here is the question: if you were to sell your soaps at "market price", wouldn't you have to get a business license and incorporate?  You don't want to make this a serious business, at least not this second, right?  You just have people who are interested in supporting you, but you don't want them to take advantage of you, right?


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## John Harris (Dec 17, 2021)

@CreativeWeirdo  That's all pretty accurate, Creative.


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## CreativeWeirdo (Dec 17, 2021)

I feel like this thread might be getting away from that. 

I wouldn't sell anything (out of my many, MANY hobbies) I made anywhere near "market value" as I won't have the same expenses and/or fines/fees.  The overhead is different.  But at the same time, I wouldn't drastically undercut myself; nor would would I "advertise" my lower price to anyone within earshot. 

You're a smart, capable human being.  I think you can figure out for yourself how much your you're comfortable charging people you know.  Just keep in mind that they are doing this because they want to support you in something you're good at.  Anyone who would push you into making an uncomfortable decision, be it with prices or deadlines, isn't worth your energy to accommodate them.  This is your hobby, not your business.  It's meant to be fun and make you happy.  Find boundaries that work for you, and stick to them.  You're worth treating yourself with kindness.


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## John Harris (Dec 17, 2021)

Thank you for your words of wisdom, Creative!


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## TheGecko (Dec 17, 2021)

John Harris said:


> Is there much of a learning curve to it?



A bit, but I could help you.  And I think it is worth it.


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## TheGecko (Dec 18, 2021)

CreativeWeirdo said:


> Here is the question: if you were to sell your soaps at "market price", wouldn't you have to get a business license and incorporate?  You don't want to make this a serious business, at least not this second, right?  You just have people who are interested in supporting you, but you don't want them to take advantage of you, right?



You’re taking about a few different things here. First of all, you don’t have to sell at “market price” to be required to be licensed by your city (or county or state). If you are exchanging goods or services at a price…for cash or even barter, regardless of the amount, you’re running a business. Neither my city, country or state requires me to have a business license, nor am I prohibited by local ordinances from running a business from my home as I don’t have a store front. Every place is different and it’s the responsibility of the person to know what the laws are in their neck of the woods.

Second, you also don’t have to incorporate…you can be a sole proprietorship using your own name or getting an Assumed Business Name or Trade Name. You can report your income as a ‘hobby business’ on your 1040, or you can include your expenses on Schedule C. Right now I’m a SP w/ABN. I will be getting a TIN/EIN so that I can establish a bank account in the business name.

Define “serious business”?  Being a ‘hobby’ business is no less serious than running a Fortune 500 business and they are folks who run big business like it’s game.  And isn’t up to the individual to decide whether or not they are being taken “advantage” of?  My BIL made the boxes for my molds…I paid for the materials plus one pie per mold for his labor.  Am I taking advantage of him?  He gets pie…he loves pie.  He also loves my soap…I make it by the loaf for him…$20.00…it about covers the cost.  Is he taking advantage of me…not all, he’d pay full-price.  I give soap to my co-workers all the time…I don’t ask for money.  Are they taking advantage of me, it’s my choice not to ask for money.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 18, 2021)

And @CreativeWeirdo I'm not sure what profession you're in, but imagine that someone started massively undercutting your prices because they were just doing what you do but just for the enjoyment in their spare time and wanted to cover the cost involved.......or how companies like Uber run at massive losses for a while to get rid of competition! 

A lot of the people who have put so much in to helping people with the hobby make their money from selling soap, and those same people who were freely given the help now start digging into the livelihood of those soapmakers who freely gave it. It's a race to the bottom, and a lot of the very knowledgeable and helpful soapers will drift away, and soaping in general will be the worse for it. We see that here on the forum - a lot of the members who were very active when I first joined rarely (if ever) post anymore and their input is missed in a lot of the threads. And I can see why - people being encouraged to undercut market price / price incorrectly because it's just a hobby (and by the way, if it's in the business forum, we have to talk about it as a business, not a hobby), or in other threads where someone who cooked soap on a stove in a glass jug and left it in there meaning to get it out with a knife later is actually encouraged to sell soap! When many members think that's A-OK, I understand why many members visit less. 

Full disclosure - I get given wholesale price from some people who I know, and even family members if they want to give the soap away rather than use it (I don't take money for soap that they want to use) but then I'm not at a market or selling online.


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## TheGecko (Dec 18, 2021)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> A lot of the people who have put so much in to helping people with the hobby make their money from selling soap, and those same people who were freely given the help now start digging into the livelihood of those soapmakers who freely gave it. It's a race to the bottom, and a lot of the very knowledgeable and helpful soapers will drift away, and soaping in general will be the worse for it. We see that here on the forum - a lot of the members who were very active when I first joined rarely (if ever) post anymore and their input is missed in a lot of the threads. And I can see why - people being encouraged to undercut market price / price incorrectly because it's just a hobby (and by the way, if it's in the business forum, we have to talk about it as a business, not a hobby), or in other threads where someone who cooked soap on a stove in a glass jug and left it in there meaning to get it out with a knife later is actually encouraged to sell soap! When many members think that's A-OK, I understand why many members visit less.



I have to agree/disagree.

First of all, I haven’t seen anyone encouraging anyone to uncut market price.  It’s possible I’ve missed it; I’m fairly active, but I don’t live here.  If anything, we encourage folks to raise their prices because there is more to the cost than just ingredients.  If someone is advised to lower their prices, it’s because it exceeds market value for their area.

People come and go for various reasons.  Maybe they retired,  Maybe their lives took a different direction.  Maybe it filled a need at the time.  Maybe it’s as simple as drifting away.  Maybe they became too busy.  Maybe it just got ‘old’ after a while…SSDD.  And yeah…maybe they they got fed up with what was happening.  I’m sixty and I have participated in a lot of different forums, boards, groups, etc over the years (started back when it was the internet and not the interwebs), even owned a few of them.  Life is not static…it ebbs and flows and changes.  And change isn’t always a bad thing.

You are always going to have folks who want to make the most amount of money with the least amount of effort.  They don’t want to learn how to make soap, they just want any recipe that they can mix up with the cheapest ingredients and sell and make lots amount of money.  They care little about the craft…the magic and the science


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## Basil (Dec 18, 2021)

TheGecko said:


> When calculating the cost of your ingredients are you including the cost of shipping? The easiest way of doing this is on a dollar per dollar basis. You take the cost of shipping and divide it by the sub-total of the items your are ordering ($17.53 / 67.89 = $0.2582118132272794). You then multiply that by the total cost of the item ($38.00 x 0.2582118132272794 = $9.812048902636618). Then you add that to the total cost of the item ($38.00 + 9.812048902636618 = $47.81204890263662). They you divide that by your unit of measurement ($47.81 / 200 = $0.24). So my actual cost per soap box isn't $0.19, it's $0.24.
> 
> To calculate the cost of volume on items sold by weight, you have to weigh the volume. So how much does a tablespoon of Sodium Lactate weigh? How much does a teaspoon of Mica weigh? This is one of the things I love about SoapMaker3...it does these calculations for me.
> 
> ...


Could you live with me ????


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## TheGecko (Dec 18, 2021)

Basil said:


> Could you live with me ????



Pretty sure my husband and three cats would object.  But on the other hand...you would be providing fresh goat milk.  Decisions.  Decisions.


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## Vicki C (Dec 18, 2021)

TheGecko said:


> Pretty sure my husband and three cats would object.  But on the other hand...you would be providing fresh goat milk.  Decisions.  Decisions.


Wait I want to get in on this. What can I provide… garden veggies? Firewood?


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## TheGecko (Dec 18, 2021)

Vicki C said:


> Wait I want to get in on this. What can I provide… garden veggies? Firewood?



I have no need for firewood, but I do love me some fresh veggies.  No tomatoes though, unless I'm canning for pasta sauce or salsa.


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## John Harris (Dec 19, 2021)

Soapmaker 3 Pro.   20 dollars off!  Go to thenovastudio.com.  $79


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## MelissaG (Dec 19, 2021)

John Harris said:


> Soapmaker 3 Pro.   20 dollars off!  Go to thenovastudio.com.  $79


I have it. I've been debating moving to Craftybase. It's just easier to have access to it anywhere.


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