# Coffee Soap and gel vs non-gel



## BlueValkyrie (Jul 30, 2011)

I made some coffee soap on Thursday, and had a little too much for my mould, so as a newbie, I wanted to see what would happen if I insulated some for gel, and put a small bit in the freezer to avoid gel. Here's the result: 












I can't believe how different they are! I think I unmolded and cut the ungelled portion too early - it's soft, crumbly - and it gave me my first zap    The gelled soap doesn't zap though, so I'm hopeful that the ungelled just needs time. 

They both smell awful at the moment, but I still love them! Just hope the lather isn't brown!


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## JackiK (Jul 30, 2011)

Oh, my.  I've made coffee soap, but it's never turned out that dark.  That's amazing.  The difference in gelling/non-gelling doesn't surprise me much.  Just that one thing can make such a big difference.


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## BlueValkyrie (Jul 30, 2011)

How dark it is surprised me too! It could be because I also added 1 tbsp of cocoa at trace - I was afraid that I could end up with pale poo-coloured soap! The cocoa was in both the gelled and non-gelled btw.


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## SilverFox (Jul 30, 2011)

Whoa, that is a HUGE difference! I had no idea. I wonder if it was the cocoa to blame? Or if it would've been that big of a difference without it. The dark one almost looks like the charcoal soap I have.


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## busymakinsoap! (Jul 31, 2011)

Wow that is amazing.  I have seen a difference in colour with gell and non gell - but the difference here is huge


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## Elly (Jul 31, 2011)

amazing difference, i love the color of the gelled soap, absolutely enchanting even if it gives you dark bubbles, I am sure the bad smell will go away withing days


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## Lynnz (Jul 31, 2011)

:shock:  Wowser that is such a difference,thanks for sharing :0)


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## Dragonkaz (Jul 31, 2011)

Agree ... your gelled is way darker than I ever get with my coffee soap.  What FO did you use?

I don't add cocoa, due to the soap turning a lovely deep brown without it.  I do add a cappuccino mica swirl with some coffee grounds to the top only.

Interesting comparison.


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## BlueValkyrie (Jul 31, 2011)

Dragonkaz said:
			
		

> Agree ... your gelled is way darker than I ever get with my coffee soap.  What FO did you use?
> 
> I don't add cocoa, due to the soap turning a lovely deep brown without it.



Thanks for all of the comments - I didn't know if my soap was unusually dark or if it was normal. If I hadn't added the cocoa, would the non-gelled version be really pale? This is my first attempt at coffee soap, and all of you experienced soapers know way more than I do  

I didn't use any FO or EO - just triple strength coffee as the water, and 1tbsp of cocoa and 1tbsp of used coffee grounds added at trace. 

I just checked my cocoa jar, and the ingredients listed are just cocoa powder and sodium carbonate, so it doesn't seem like there are any hidden sugars or anything in there.

And thank you Elly - I love the dark one too - can't wait to give it a try


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## soapbuddy (Aug 1, 2011)

That's why I don't gel.   
Yes, ungelled soap can zap; up to three days later. After that it should be fine.


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## saltydog (Aug 1, 2011)

I think the black one looks really pretty. There's something about dark soaps that I love. It looks so exotic!


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## rszuba (Aug 1, 2011)

thanks for sharing your experiment with us : )


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## flowersoap (Aug 2, 2011)

Gorgeous Soap ... Love Dark Soaps, they are so dramatic!! Good Job BTW!! Triple Strength coffee might have caused the really dark. I usually only make mine double strength. Plus the Cocoa also would've made it really dark too. But that is one Gorgeous Soap!! Well Done!!


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## BlueValkyrie (Aug 2, 2011)

Thanks everyone    Triple strength coffee may have been overkill, but I made it for my man who is VERY big into strong coffee.

The ungelled one has now darkened very slightly - and no longer zaps - but they still look nothing alike. I'm going to try comparisons with more batches - I really want to figure out if I'm a geller or not, or if it depends on the bar...so much to learn


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## Soapsugoii (Aug 2, 2011)

Wow, I think the dark soap is absolutely gorgeous. Really nice molding job, too! I would buy that.


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## serfmunke (Aug 2, 2011)

BlueValkyrie said:
			
		

> Thanks everyone    Triple strength coffee may have been overkill, but I made it for my man who is VERY big into strong coffee.
> 
> The ungelled one has now darkened very slightly - and no longer zaps - but they still look nothing alike. I'm going to try comparisons with more batches - I really want to figure out if I'm a geller or not, or if it depends on the bar...so much to learn



This is exactly what I did to understand gel and non gel. I decided if I want the natural color to really show, gel, if I want a softer or white bar I do not gel, or try not to :wink: 

I put cocoa in my first coffee soap, called it cafe and cocoa, and the suds were a little brown, nothing serious. Now I adjusted it to coffee as my water and medium ground coffee grounds within the soap for exfoliation. I love my coffee soap  

Good job!


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## BlueValkyrie (Aug 2, 2011)

Soapsugoii said:
			
		

> Wow, I think the dark soap is absolutely gorgeous. Really nice molding job, too! I would buy that.



I had to laugh at this - the dark one was moulded in an old milk carton - simple 1 litre carton like this:






Part of the reason that I laugh is that I've done a couple of batches in these and also one in a silicone muffin tin (note to self - red silcone colours the soap - not good), one in a 2lb loaf tin (lined with baking parchment - note to those in Ireland or UK - don't use Tesco baking parchment - it went furry and stuck to the soap - I had to cut it off!), some in round yoghurt pots (like the ungelled photo in this thread)...

...my favourite moulds by far are the milk cartons. I love the way the soap stretches the square carton to give rounded sides. And unmoulding is so easy, because you can just tear the mould off, and pop it in the recycling   

Only problem is that I'm now trying to find excuses to drink more and more milk to get more cartons (I live alone, so don't get through that much)  - I was so disappointed when I finished my latest carton of cranberry juice, and realised that those cartons are aluminium foil lined (and therefore can't be used...)

I see no other way around this, other than to start making milk soap, to use up both the milk and the cartons (and try not to look at all of the pretty moulds that I could buy online (none for sale in Ireland that I know of) ....wow soapmaking is addictive... :roll:


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## BlueValkyrie (Aug 2, 2011)

serfmunke said:
			
		

> This is exactly what I did to understand gel and non gel. I decided if I want the natural color to really show, gel, if I want a softer or white bar I do not gel, or try not to :wink:
> 
> I put cocoa in my first coffee soap, called it cafe and cocoa, and the suds were a little brown, nothing serious. Now I adjusted it to coffee as my water and medium ground coffee grounds within the soap for exfoliation. I love my coffee soap



I'm glad I'm not the only one to try both gelling and not, and that the whole cocoa + coffee thing wasn't _that_ weird! I'm coming to the same conclusion - soft and white = non gel, dark colour = gel. Have to say though, i really like the biscuity non-gelled soap from this batch too. 

Tonight I tried a facial bar - my first completely invented recipe (using soapcalc of course  :wink: ) with aloe and charcoal. Again, I tried to gel some but not all. If it proves interesting, I'll post pics. I'm glad others have found this interesting - I've learnt so much from everyone on this forum, and hope that others can learn from my early trials also


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## Soapsugoii (Aug 3, 2011)

Ha! That's really cool. Looks like I'll be picking up some milk cartons when I go to the store tomorrow  I'm getting bored of my silicon loaf mold; i need to change it up a bit.


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## serfmunke (Aug 3, 2011)

Are the milk cartons similar to rice milk cartons? I was hesitant to use my rice milk containers worried the last liner was aluminum or something like that. I guess I could email the company to find out. My favorite mold is my club soda containers. Nice sized circle soaps, cuts right off.


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## BlueValkyrie (Aug 4, 2011)

Hi sermunke   

I'm not sure what your rice milk containers are like. The milk cartons that I use don't have any aluminium - they're just cardboard, and the inside is white, and sort of lined/sealed with very light clear plastic if that makes any sense? 

My juice cartons on the other hand (which I don't use) have an aluminium foil lining - when you open them up you can very clearly see that they are foil lined. They are also much harder to tear. 

I would just rip a carton open and examine it I suppose - or maybe if there is recycling information on it that may help?


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## shadowdancer (Aug 10, 2011)

I have experimented with the foil lined ones.  There is a layer of plastic OVER the top of the foil, so it's hard to tear off, but it makes NO effect on the soap that I've put inside them at all.  If in doubt, try it with one and see what happens, just remember to stick it outside first, as your cardboard containers might me manufactured differently to ours here in Australia?  But I've had absolutely no trouble with using them at all, and use them as the molds for my classes to take their soap home in after they've made it.


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## BlueValkyrie (Aug 10, 2011)

That's interesting Shadowdancer - I had wondered about the plastic coating on the foil lined ones. 

As a newbie, I had read up and found out that lye reacts with aluminium, and therefore steered well clear. However, I have no idea what actually happens   

Soooo....what does happen?


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## serfmunke (Aug 10, 2011)

I dunno what happens so I will give it a go here soon. If something exciting happens I will be sure to tell you about it and post pics :wink: 

I think the containers are plastic lined. I will be making a batch soon, I have been on break until my stock runs down to an acceptable level :wink:


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## shadowdancer (Aug 11, 2011)

BlueValkyrie said:
			
		

> That's interesting Shadowdancer - I had wondered about the plastic coating on the foil lined ones.
> 
> As a newbie, I had read up and found out that lye reacts with aluminium, and therefore steered well clear. However, I have no idea what actually happens
> 
> Soooo....what does happen?




It has never occurred in any soaps that I have made yet in any of those containers at all and I've been making soap for over 10 years  ....  the reaction between Lye and Aluminium results in Hydrogen Gas.  I have heard of it happening to some people who are not aware of it, but it's never happened to me ever.


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## BlueValkyrie (Aug 11, 2011)

Hydrogen gas does not sound good  :shock: 

I will try it carefully at some point - outside as you suggest Shadowdancer. Let us know how you get on Serfmunke...and post pics


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