# Crisco



## terr (Apr 6, 2015)

Hi what exactly is Crisco? Is there a UK alternative? as I see a lot of recipes with Crisco in and just wondering if there is anything I could use in my soap as we cant get this here, Is it like Trex? Also regarding Measuring I must be thick as still have not got this right can anyone recommend some that I can get as dont want to mess around with 2 scales The ones I have only go to 1 g increments so when a recipe calls for something like #	√	Oil/Fat	%	Pounds	Ounces	Grams
1	 
Sunflower Oil	70.00	0.700	11.20	317.51
2	 
Coconut Oil, 76 deg	20.00	0.200	3.20	90.72
3	 
Olive Oil	10.00	0.100	1.60	45.36
I cant work it out have tried rounding up the oils and rounding down on the lye but still not quite right 

Heres hoping 

:think:


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## lsg (Apr 6, 2015)

In the U.S., the new Crisco contains SOYBEAN OIL, FULLY HYDROGENATED PALM OIL, PARTIALLY HYDROGENATED PALM AND SOYBEAN OILS, MONO AND DIGLYCERIDES, TBHQ AND CITRIC ACID (ANTIOXIDANTS)..  The old Crisco contained soybean and cottonseed oils.


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## abc (Apr 6, 2015)

In the US Crisco is vegetable shortening. Trex would be comparable but idk if the SAP numbers would be the same.


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## terr (Apr 6, 2015)

thanks for that - it really dosnt seem that there is a uk equlivant as just had a look at all our fats available in the supermarket oh well!  I really like the lard soap recipes so will continue using that as cheap and plentiful 

thanks isg


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Apr 6, 2015)

With the measuring, if it calls for a % of x, y and z, then put them in to soap calc with those % and then set your batch size to be what you want it to be - then it calculates the amount that you need in your chosen unit (grams, of course!).  If these are then a number with a decimal point, I would just round up the oils and the lye down.  I have a measure that can do 0.1grams and so I can go to that extreme if I want to, but I usually tweak a recipe to fit the whole numbers when I make it at my usual batch size just so it reads easier


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## terr (Apr 6, 2015)

*thanks*

I have just made a really pretty soap with lard and coconut oil and have rounded down on the lye and up  on the fats will  let you know how it turns out  

thanks again you are such a helpful lot :razz:


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## happyshopper (Apr 6, 2015)

I have been playing with the soapcalc calculator and as Efficacious says if you change to grams it works it out in grams, rather than pounds (500g to 1.1 pounds) this means that the gram quantities tend to come out as whole numbers  

Trex is palm oil and rapseed oil, shame its not 100% palm oil that would be very handy. Not sure how you could enter it into the calculator as it doesn't state what percentage is palm/rapseed.


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## regansoap (Apr 7, 2015)

Hi terr I made some soap subed cisco for Cookeen ran it through soap call to check the likely properties of the soap it came out great


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## terr (Apr 7, 2015)

*cookeen*

that sounds good then ill try cookeen and let you know , what else was in the recipe ?


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## topofmurrayhill (Apr 12, 2015)

terr said:


> that sounds good then ill try cookeen and let you know , what else was in the recipe ?



May I suggest that there is no advantage to finding a Crisco substitute? Vegetable shortening is just not that good of a soaping ingredient in my book, so I'd say the issue isn't worth worrying about.

In baking, vegetable shortening was created as an alternative to lard. But in soaping, they are nowhere near being equivalent. Two totally different things. To me, the lard recipes you're looking at sound like the more promising way to go.

The rest is a semi-technical explanation if you are interested.

Many of the supermarket oils and shortenings are high in polyunsaturated fatty acids. Some may advertise this on their labels as a nutritional benefit. As far as I know, polyunsaturated oils were not considered soaping oils until home crafters came along, and I suggest that's for a good reason.

Many soapers believe that including polyunsaturated oils makes for milder soap. My dissenting view is that polyunsaturated oils saponify poorly, they make more alkaline soap, they make soft soap that doesn't last a long time, and they magnify the drying effects of lauric oils like coconut.

Everyone agrees that polyunsaturated oils make soap that's prone to discoloration (DOS, or "dreaded orange spots"). Some experienced soapers suggest a rule of thumb that your recipe should not contain more than 15% polyunsaturated fatty acids. To figure that out, you need a lye calculator that displays detailed information about your recipe and you have to know how to read it.

I have a rule of thumb that's so much simpler: avoid polyunsaturated fatty acids in your soap. For that, all you have to know is what oils are good for soaping. The simplest list would be coconut and palm kernel oils, palm oil, olive oil, lard, tallow and tropical nut butters. All of those are mainly saturated or monounsaturated fat. With those oils, you can make any good soap that can be made.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Apr 12, 2015)

That is an unbearable simplistic view. By that rationale I can make a 100% cocoa butter soap and it'll be great but we know that is not the case. 

A great soap needs to have a good mix of oils (or fatty acids!) that bring certain properties to the finished soap. Do unsaturated oils have a place there? Some would say no, others would say yes. But that is soaping - I would say that butters have no need to be saponified as long as there are fat pigs chock full of lard in the world.


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## CTAnton (Apr 12, 2015)

just wanted to chime in on this thread that I, for one, have been disappointed with my results using crisco as a substantial ingredient in soaps. The bars seem spongy and, in a way, insubstantial; a certain hollowness if you will. I've just played on soapcalc for awhile, looking for recipes that would enable me to use up my stock of the assorted shortening blends I bought...20 to 25% of a recipe seems to be about as high as I want to go....


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## topofmurrayhill (Apr 12, 2015)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> That is an unbearable simplistic view.
> 
> A great soap needs to have a good mix of oils (or fatty acids!) that bring certain properties to the finished soap. Do unsaturated oils have a place there? Some would say no, others would say yes.


 
It's controversial almost for sure, but I wouldn't think it's simplistic. I agree with everything you say here, and I am simply taking a stand on whether a certain fatty acid and its associated oils should have a place.

I think we must agree that certain oils and fatty acids do not have a place in soaping. If you make a soap with any significant amount of fractionated coconut oil, the caprylic (C8:0) and capric (C10:0) fatty acids will teach you an unforgettable lesson in what drying soap actually feels like. Plus it will smell funky. (ETA, ask me how I know. :smile: ) And being a linolenic (C18:3) oil, linseed oil is good for making varnish, not soap. All you have to do is paint it on something and oxidation will make it polymerize into a plastic-like solid before your eyes.

So all I'm doing is proposing adding C18:2 to the list of fatty acids that makes soap worse instead of better. CTAnton provides us a great practical example of some of the reasons for that.

I think we can easily agree that oleic (C18:1, as in olive oil) is useful for soap and linolenic (C18:3, as in linseed oil) is not, and that this leaves linoleic (C18:2, as in soybean oil) potentially up in the air since it's right between the two. You may say that it's useful, I may say that it's not and oils rich in it should be avoided. Of course, the proof is in the pudding and we reach our conclusions by trying it. I'm sure people cheer experimentation on this board.

However, there is a huge thing we're missing as crafters, which is objective standards for evaluating soap quality. Sometimes we talk about a particular quality of soap, like drying the skin, and everyone is talking about a different thing that they are interpreting as drying or not. Not everyone knows what to look for.

With that one it's actually simple because there's a specific way to test for it and everyone can learn what it feels like and how to evaluate whether a soap is drying. Other qualities might be more difficult to conceptualize and test, like skin feel after using a soap, but out there in industry they find ways to evaluate that.

That lack of standards makes it difficult to discuss things like whether linoleic oils are useful in soaping. I don't mean it as a criticism to say that the lack of objective tests makes a certain amount of self-hypnosis inevitable. If there is a certain belief in the community, everyone will tend to perceive it. (ETA, it's human nature.) Thus, whether soybean oil is "conditioning" as a soaping ingredient can be an impossible discussion.

Which interestingly brings us back to Crisco. It used to be that in the candlemaking community, it was common knowledge that you could add Crisco to container wax to improve its properties and help the candle throw more scent. Lots of people did it and spread the information. Now nobody does it. Everyone looks back on it as a silly practice that makes candles smell strange and give off soot while burning.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Apr 12, 2015)

Oh no, I quite agree that there are certain oils that could well be considered "filler" oils in that they have a make up that doesn't add much to the mix at all.

I meant that breaking the rule of thumb down to just being a list of oils is ommitting the caveats that are needed - 100% CO needs a large SF to be usable for most people to bathe with, large amounts of butters will reduce lather - those sorts of things.  It's too simplistic to say "here is a list of oils with which great soap can be made" when these oils can actually be used to make terrible soap when used in the wrong amounts


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## topofmurrayhill (Apr 12, 2015)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> I meant that breaking the rule of thumb down to just being a list of oils is ommitting the caveats that are needed - 100% CO needs a large SF to be usable for most people to bathe with, large amounts of butters will reduce lather - those sorts of things.  It's too simplistic to say "here is a list of oils with which great soap can be made" when these oils can actually be used to make terrible soap when used in the wrong amounts



Absolutely. Definitely did not mean to say they make good soap in any possible proportions, or as single oils. You still have to formulate a good recipe.


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