# Crisco vs Lard



## NatureandNurture (Aug 26, 2009)

Can someone please help me understand whether one really is better than the other?  Because when I compare pricing, Crisco is actually more expensive than lard.  I like my lard (or tallow) soaps, so why would one, hypothetically speaking, want to switch from lard based to Crisco based soaps?  

Also, how would you list Crisco on an ingredient list? (just curious) ...sodium Criscoate


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## IrishLass (Aug 26, 2009)

There are lots of soapers who don't like the thought of using animal fats, or else they have vegetarian customers who don't like to bathe with animal fat soaps, and so they will use Crisco (which is hydrogenated vegetable oil) to soap with instead. Either that or Palm Oil. It's a preference thing. From all I've read, though, there are some soapers who have complained of DOS whenever using Crisco (because of the DOS-prone soybean oil in contains). Tallow and lard and palm are more stable fats to use in comparison.

I have no idea how you would list it on a label since I've never used it. Maybe 'Hydogenated Soybean Oil'?


IrishLass


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## cleanwater (Aug 27, 2009)

Well now I want to use it just so I can say "Sodium Criscoate!"


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## Saltysteele (Aug 27, 2009)

actually, think it would be cricoLate....


J/K


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## Milla (Aug 27, 2009)

You'd have to list all the ingredients from the crisco is list what I've read on the forum.  The new Crisco formula has soy and palm in it.


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## opalgirl (Aug 27, 2009)

I list soybean and palm oil on my label.  I've made maybe 50 to 60 batches in the last 2 years and only had one with DOS.  I use it as 10 to 15% of my oils.  I like crisco as a way to stretch my oils $.  I've used lard soap and it's very nice but I don't see a huge difference between the veggie soaps I make and the very limited amount of lard soaps I've used.  Not bashing lard soaps at all, just my experience.  I prefer vegan.


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## MikeInPdx (Aug 27, 2009)

I like Crisco at maybe 20% for the lovely creamy quality it gives to soap. It may be solid, but I don't usually consider it a hard oil. I use the lard or the palm for those, along with my coconut.


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## knicelyr (Aug 28, 2009)

I find that Crisco doesn't do as well as coconut oil, lard or palm do for hardening.

Have other's experienced the same thing?


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## ChrissyB (Aug 28, 2009)

I remember Carebear saying that the Chrisco has recently been changed. 
Milla's right, you would have to list all the ingredients that are listed on the chrisco.


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## honor435 (Aug 28, 2009)

i think people use crisco so they can say its not lard! they can say veg soybean oil. ive used crisco and lard like them both, although i prefer oo, co, po!


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## wookie130 (Aug 29, 2009)

I don't have a lot of input on Crisco...I used it ONCE as a replacement for lard in a recipe, and I eventually did get DOS.  I probably used too high of a %...and the soap was as hard as a lard bar.  I'm all about lard, and people are offended, and want a vegan/veggie bar...well, I don't make them!!!


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## carebear (Aug 29, 2009)

Asking which is better is like asking if bananas are better than peaches.  It all depends.  They are simply different products.  

As for which has more (or less) label appeal - again it depends.  Some don't like animal products, some don't like shortening (which I believe is the INCI after which you list the individual components from the Crisco label).  BTW, labeling with just the "ate" (and yes, I know you were kidding) ignores the stabilizing ingredients in Crisco).

Crisco has changed.  It is now soybean and palm (which will get some customers all worked up) whereas it used to be soybean and cottonseed, I believe).  The SAP is a bit different but if you use the old number then you are just getting a slightly higher superfat so don't sweat it.

I don't use Crisco simply because I don't want to say "lard."  I use lard as well.  I use Crisco because I like the way my soap comes out.  I choose my other oils (including lard) for the same reason.


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## carebear (Aug 29, 2009)

honor435 said:
			
		

> i think people use crisco so they can say its not lard! they can say veg soybean oil. ive used crisco and lard like them both, although i prefer oo, co, po!


no they cannot.  they also need to include the mono and diglycerides, the TBHQ, and the citric acid.



			
				opalgirl said:
			
		

> I list soybean and palm oil on my label.


if you stop here you are misleading your customers and illegally labeling your product.  if you are going to list ingredients you need to do so fully and completely.


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## NatureandNurture (Aug 29, 2009)

carebear said:
			
		

> no they cannot.  they also need to include the mono and diglycerides, the TBHQ, and the citric acid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So how would you list it if you chose to use Crisco in your soap (hypothetically)?


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## Milla (Aug 29, 2009)

I'm referencing what carebear wrote in another thread.  Since you don't know what percentage of ingredients are in crisco you put the crisco ingredients in () in the place where the whole amount of crisco is in your formula.


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## knicelyr (Aug 29, 2009)

Wont the mono-glycerides and di-glycerides be turned into soap and glycerin?

Couldn't you use the chemical names for the soaps and glycerin.

I know you would still have to list the other's like citric acid.  Citric acid is actually a good natural chelating agent for hard water. Probably not enough in the Crisco to do that... But just thought I would mention that.

In my boidiesel glycerin soaps I am going to list the possible soaps like Sodium stearate. etc...


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## carebear (Aug 29, 2009)

Rick, I don't believe so.  Because while the majority will likely be saponified - don't forget the superfat.  So some may or may not be left unsaponified.  The correct way to list is by what goes in.  IMO.

Yes, I know that is inaccurate in its own way, but it is the closest I can get.

Commercial soap companies can list sodium tallowate because they, in fact, use purified sodium tallowate as an ingredient in their soap products.  

I myself have issues with listing "may contains" - but that's cuz we have allergies in my family, including peanut allergies so I am a big fan of being as precise and accurate as possible.  

Plus how would you have any idea where to place the citric acid in your ingredient list?  Granted it's probably less than 1% so it can go anywhere at the end - so maybe never mind that part.

I list it as "vegetable shortening (SSS, YYY, PPP, TBHQ, Citric Acid)" or whatever the current ingredient list is, wherever the Crisco fits in my list of soap ingredients, including the water and the lye.


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## carebear (Aug 29, 2009)

I should mention that before my fragrance manufacturing experience (OK, I'm not manufacturing them - I work for a company that does) I did product development for food (esp ice creams! yum!) so I'm coming from that perspective.  Chemical reactions happen in foods (for example with the leavening agents) , but you list the ingredients going IN...


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## knicelyr (Aug 29, 2009)

That leaves me with an issue...

My glycein can contian any of the root oils. I do fully saponify those ingredients and superfat after HP.

I'm not sure what I need to list.  BTW I dont use Crisco.

Just wondering how I sould label.


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## jarvan (Aug 29, 2009)

Saltysteele said: 



> actually, think it would be cricoLate....



All I have to say is YUK...I would never drink a CriscoLatte!


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## carebear (Aug 29, 2009)

knicelyr said:
			
		

> That leaves me with an issue...
> 
> My glycein can contian any of the root oils. I do fully saponify those ingredients and superfat after HP.
> 
> ...



Well you do, but soap is not really inert.  I cannot find my source, but I SWEAR I have a reliable one.  Anyway - the fatty acids can swap amongst themselves in the salt-forms (for example, lard molecules can swap with the tallow molecules in sodium tallowate) so you cannot be 100% sure what you have at the time.

Dayum, I wish I could find that research.  I'll keep looking.
In the meantime, there is this: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/47042 ... ption.html


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