# Copyrighting soap?



## lagniappe (Mar 6, 2015)

If someone claims their soap is copyrighted, is that possible? More specifically the way you make a melt and pour soap look. I understand copyright when it comes to other things, but I'm not sure if that can be possible with a soap.


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## not_ally (Mar 6, 2015)

This is purely an off the cuff response, so take it for what it is worth.  I think it is really easy to file a copywright app, the legitimacy sort of proves up in litigation if it comes to that.  If for some reason I wanted to claim copywright on something soap related (and hard to imagine what that would be except for truly singular tools/molds, etc.) I would file copywright, trademark and trade dress applications to cover my ass, they are cheap and not that hard.  The best way to do it with actual processes like tools/molds would be a patent claim, but that is expensive unless you are an experienced patent lawyer and can do your own.

If you are really worried about copying the way a soap looks/swirls, etc, I don't think you have much to be worried about.


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## LBussy (Mar 6, 2015)

Artwork can be copyrighted.  People keep telling me M&P designs are artwork.  Therefore by how we describe M&P designs I'd say yes but I am not a lawyer.

Here's a couple applicable sources:



> A mere listing of ingredients is not protected under copyright law. However, where a recipe or formula is accompanied by substantial literary expression in the form of an explanation or directions, or when there is a collection of recipes as in a cookbook, there may be a basis for copyright protection. Note that if you have secret ingredients to a recipe that you do not wish to be revealed, you should not submit your recipe for registration, because applications and deposit copies are public records.
> See FL 122, Recipes.



And:



> Copyright is a form of protection provided by U.S. law to authors of “original works of authorship,” including “pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works.” The owner of copyright in a work has the exclusive right to make copies, prepare derivative works, sell or distribute copies, and display the work publicly. Anyone else wishing to use the work in these ways must have the permission of the author or someone who has derived rights through the author.
> Copyright Registration for Pictorial, Graphic, and Sculptural Works



ETA:  If the claim is a design then I believe the above applies.  If the claim is a process then that is something covered by patent.  You would of course have to license the patent of the entity supplying the M&P soap because your work is now a derivative work being protected in a manner inconsistent with the original implied license when you purchased it..


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## not_ally (Mar 6, 2015)

All of this kind of depends on why you are asking and specific facts about your case.  I find it hard to see a copywright claim based on the little you have said (either to make or defend), but if you are really worried, you should check w/an intellectual property lawyer.  I am a lawyer, by the way, but mostly did commercial litigation and then mergers/acquisitions, so although I have a sprinkling of knowledge about this, my experience is not on really on point, we had IP folks with science backgrounds that did most of that work, they are the best for this kind of thing.

If you are worried, check it out with an expert, really the only (if somewhat expensive) way to go if it is important.


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## LBussy (Mar 6, 2015)

Thanks not_ally, always helpful to have real world experience.  I hold patents and copyrights but like I said ... NOT a lawyer.  About all I can tell you is it is expensive to argue to protect your patents/copyrights/trademarks if needed, and expensive when someone else claims you have infringed.  Not sure which direction lagniappe is coming from but either way it's expen$ive.


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## lagniappe (Mar 6, 2015)

not_ally said:


> All of this kind of depends on why you are asking and specific facts about your case.  I find it hard to see a copywright claim based on the little you have said (either to make or defend), but if you are really worried, you should check w/an intellectual property lawyer.  I am a lawyer, by the way, but mostly did commercial litigation and then mergers/acquisitions, so although I have a sprinkling of knowledge about this, my experience is not on really on point, we had IP folks with science backgrounds that did most of that work, they are the best for this kind of thing.
> 
> If you are worried, check it out with an expert, really the only (if somewhat expensive) way to go if it is important.



I was really just asking a general question because it just seemed "out there" to have a copyright on a design in a soap considering it looks like something that could possibly even happen by accident depending on colors and the way they were poured in the molds. 

Soap just seems like such a general thing to be able to claim uniqueness. Thanks for the responses


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## not_ally (Mar 6, 2015)

I agree with you w/r/t uniqueness/singularity if you are talking about design or ingredients, there is just too much information out there for anyone to lay claim to it. Honestly, like I said, if what you are worrying about is the way an mp soap looks/is constituted I would stop doing so unless for some reason you haves stumbled across something crazy ("Dog poo allows you to do those great swirly swirls like  the Attirance ones" Attirance are my holy grail in MP, god knows how they do it, my poor dog would be overfed if dog poo was really the magic ingredient

That's my opinion as a fancy lawyer back during the day and a soapmaker now.  I do find it unlikely you will get a different opinion from an atty now (I am cautious about opining, even for free, so it is kind of reliable.)

Processes like molds/tools are different because they really can require more work and are resultingly more singular.  HTH.

L. Bussy, it does suck if you have to protect protectable material, bless your heart.  It seems like soap making should be something you could do without worrying about that, darn it.  But the fact that you have IP that you have to protect must mean that it is good and worth it, right?  That is comforting.  Best wishes.


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## LBussy (Mar 7, 2015)

It does suck, thankfully there was a corporation who shared my interest in the patents so it wasn't my pockets.  It was frustrating all the same.  This was in information technology however; soap is my refuge from work.


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