# Starting to feel disheartened = another failed attempt



## Tilia (Oct 28, 2014)

After a failed first attempt at soap making I tried a second time just now. It managed to produce even worse results. So yes, I'm starting to feel disheartened. I want to learn to make soap but right now I feel ... blah about it.

I just spend 2 hours trying to make a CP soap. About 10 minutes in it looked to be at full trace (went very fast all of a sudden) and added the eucalyptus EO. The batch split while mixed it in and refused to retrace. My stick blender decided to go wonky on me and will have to be replaced. I knew it was possible with it being a very old one and with a non-steel ring. That ring has corroded and is now in the soap mixture. 

In the end I tried rebatching my first and second attempt by mixing them together and heating it up au bain marie. I think might make it work, but I'm not sure. 

Was my trace a false one, is the EO the culprit (my first batch had hardly any in it, and while looking okay when I poured it into the mold, it had split the next time I looked) or is there some wrong with my NaOH? I'm sure I followed the recipe correctly to the gram.


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## dixiedragon (Oct 28, 2014)

Can you tell us your recipe and your temperatures?


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## Tilia (Oct 28, 2014)

I added the second one as a pdf, first recipe is shown in another post http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=460575&postcount=13. The first recipe the temperature was 39°C now I tried a higher temperature of 44°C. 

View attachment Recept2.pdf


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 28, 2014)

Poor you 

Maybe just make a batch of unscented, uncoloured, simple soap to get that out of the way?  Like Dix, I'd like to see the recipe


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 28, 2014)

I'd go with 

CO 20%
OO 35%
Palm/Lard 45%


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## Susie (Oct 28, 2014)

Your recipes look ok.  How old is the NaOH, and are you certain it is pure NaOH, and nothing else?  Also, have you checked to be sure your scale is weighing correctly?


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## dixiedragon (Oct 28, 2014)

1st, Check your ingredients.

Smell your oils. Especially the rapeseed. Do any of them smell harsh and sour, like stomach acid? That means rancidity. As I learned here (thanks Deanna!), when an oil goes rancid, it breaks down into different substances, and once of those is stearic acid, which speeds trace. I had some rancid mango butter give me serious seizing. I'm not really worried about the olive, coconut or castor - those oils have a long shelf life.

I have never had a problem with eucalyptus EO. I think it's usually very well behaved. Read the bottle and make sure it is 100% eo. It might be mixed with alcohol, which can cause seizing.

2nd, I think you are soaping too hot. Try soaping at about at about 37C.
3rd, drop your coconut oil percentage to 20%. Coconut oil can speed trace. Replace it with olive (or rapeseed if you are trying to cut costs).

I have never encountered unrefined rapeseed, and I have no idea if it behaves any differently than the canola I buy at the store (I'm in the US).


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## Tilia (Oct 28, 2014)

I wanted to add palm oil to this batch, but strangely none of the two supermarkets in my neighborhood stock it. O.O I was surprised  by that, but as I didn't wish to go shopping further away I decided to do with addng another oil I had namely the rapeseed oil. I have been giving the advice of lowering the olive oil amount already, but yeah... circumstances made that I had to do with what I had. 

The NaOH is newly bought from a shop that sells cosmetics supplies. Sold to me after asking for NaOH suitable for making soap. The package does not mention the purity grade which makes me suspicious. My scale has always been reliable enough for me, but maybe I better test it.


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## dixiedragon (Oct 28, 2014)

Why were you given the advice of lowering the olive oil? Olive oil is a very slow tracing oil.

Also, once you make sure your eucalyptus is 100% eo, blend it with a small amount of olive oil, then blend that with the soap batter.


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## Tilia (Oct 28, 2014)

dixiedragon said:


> 1st, Check your ingredients.
> 
> Smell your oils. Especially the rapeseed. Do any of them smell harsh and sour, like stomach acid? That means rancidity. As I learned here (thanks Deanna!), when an oil goes rancid, it breaks down into different substances, and once of those is stearic acid, which speeds trace. I had some rancid mango butter give me serious seizing. I'm not really worried about the olive, coconut or castor - those oils have a long shelf life.
> 
> ...



I am aware that rapeseed oil goes rancid quickly, so I checked before starting. The other oils are newly bought (within the last month). The EO is pure. 

I am very confused with temperatures. Each of the 3 books I have on soap making has a different opinion. The book I followed this time was Soap Naturally by Patrizia Garzena & Marina Tadiello. On the forum I've also read it doesn't matter much. All very confusing. 

Rapeseed oil is actually more costly than olive oil where I live. 

Thanks everyone for trying to help me, this is a wonderful community.


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## Tilia (Oct 28, 2014)

dixiedragon said:


> Also, once you make sure your eucalyptus is 100% eo, blend it with a small amount of olive oil, then blend that with the soap batter.



And warming the olive oil up before adding the EO correct? I read about this just now.


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## shunt2011 (Oct 28, 2014)

Did you run your recipe through a soap calc and weigh the ingredients appropriately?   I too would make soap without any coloring or fragrance until you get the technique down.  I use Eucalyptus and have not had an issue with it either.   Don't give up, you'll get it to work and be amazed at your soap.


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## dixiedragon (Oct 28, 2014)

Olive is cheaper where you live?! You lucky duck! Then don't use the rapeseed at all. It's just a cheap filler oil, and it's far inferior to olive (when it comes to soap).

Re: temperatures. It's true that there is a lot of different advice. I think a lot of it really depends on the particular soaper, their recipe, etc. But saponfication is a chemical process, and heat speeds that process. With your 92 degree coconut, if you go below 92F, your coconut will start to re-solidify, which is false trace. But if you stay at around 100F (37C), you should be fine.

To test your scale, Google the weight of a coin, then weigh the coin.


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## dixiedragon (Oct 28, 2014)

Tilia said:


> And warming the olive oil up before adding the EO correct? I read about this just now.


 
Honestly, I've never bothered. If you do this, you want it to be warm, not hot. Don't add the FO to the oil and THEN microwave!


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## dixiedragon (Oct 28, 2014)

Rather than a bain marie, put your soap pot on the stove on LOW heat and gentle stir. Google some pictures of hot process soap, so you will know what to expect.


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## Dorymae (Oct 28, 2014)

Honestly I think it was the fragrance.  Either the amount was too much or the formula of the fragrance caused it to separate.  I don't think you had false trace, 10 minutes with a stick blender is about right.  Also because it separated right after you added the fragrance - my opinion is that the fragrance is the culprit.


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## summerflyy (Oct 28, 2014)

37C is not too hot. I soap at around 45C in the beginning but in the end, I just heat my oil to melt all my oils and then let it cool a bit before adding my lye solution into the oils. 

I can't see your second recipe so I am not much help here !


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## Susie (Oct 28, 2014)

And all of us forgot the most important thing!  Don't get disheartened!  You will succeed, I promise!  We all go through the soap gremlin stages, truly!  This is a great hobby, and you will get it all worked out, just hang in there!


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## navigator9 (Oct 28, 2014)

Oh Tilia! Here's a hug for you. (you)  That's supposed to be a hug. :smile: Take a deep breath. You need  a successful batch of soap under your belt. Why don't you go super simple and make some castile? Just olive oil, lye and water. No fragrance. No anything else. Just that. It will work, you won't feel so discouraged, and you can go from there. It's times like this that I wish that the person who needs help was next door, so I could come over and watch over your shoulder as you soap. 

Sometimes I think that making soap is like doing something on the computer. There are as many ways to do it as there are people who try to explain how. It's good to learn all those rules in the beginning, because they all have reasons behind them. But once you've been doing it for a while, you can take the training wheels off and you'll find its easier. Most of us don't take temperatures of oils or lye any more. We may do it by feeling with our hand on the pot. Making soap is one of those things that seems impossibly complex when you're trying to learn it, but once you have......it's pretty much cake. There will always be things that can go wrong, but you'll learn how to handle them if they do. So hang in there, kiddo. Don't get discouraged. Keep it as simple as possible in the beginning, and you'll get there.


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## cmzaha (Oct 28, 2014)

I did have an eucalptus eo that would seize a few years back. Actually I think I still have it and just do not use it. I also have a feeling it was an adulterated eo. It was the only eucalyptus I have had that would seize


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## Dahila (Oct 28, 2014)

I soap in 38 top and so far no problems,  I am kind of new in soaping too.  I have probably like 20 soaps made already


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## Tilia (Nov 13, 2014)

Right this moment I'm trying a third batch. Hopefully this one turns out okay. I had to wait a while because I ordered NaOH and few other things online and it has quite a bit of delay before being shipped to me. 
So far I've noticed a huge difference in the temperature the lye got to. It a lot warmer which makes me even more suspicious of the NaOH I first bought. I'm waiting for it to cool down enough and the first two times I had to hurry because it cooled down to soaping temperature in minutes...


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## Tilia (Nov 13, 2014)

What a difference this time. I think I might have my first success, yay!  My new stick blender works a treat (and is of the same brand of the one I use for my cooking so I can switch motors if I want to, double yay) and I am now fairly certain there is something wrong with the first NaOH I bought. I'm so curious to get them out of my mold.


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## JustBeachy (Nov 13, 2014)

Tilia said:


> What a difference this time. I think I might have my first success, yay!  My new stick blender works a treat (and is of the same brand of the one I use for my cooking so I can switch motors if I want to, double yay) and I am now fairly certain there is something wrong with the first NaOH I bought. I'm so curious to get them out of my mold.



Great to hear you keep trying. There are a lot of things that can go wrong when making soap. Learning to deal with them all is part of the deal. Hat's off to you for not giving up and pouring some soap. :clap:

And bad lye is a bear. You can do everything else right, but if the lye isn't working, you're going to have soup, not soap.


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## seven (Nov 13, 2014)

glad to hear that you didn't give up 

please post pics!


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## Tilia (Nov 14, 2014)

Made another soap just now! Same recipe but with the full water amount and a few additives: green clay powder, peppermint tea instead of water and lemongrass EO. My first successful soap is very plain and not exactly a looker so I won't post a picture of that one, but maybe this one will be posted. Thanks for your kind words.


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