# Beginner needing correct amounts



## wt168048 (Sep 28, 2015)

New to soap making.

We have a few bees hives here and want to get into making soap with the honey and beeswax we collect from extracting from the hives.  I was wondering if i could get some help on getting the right amounts of each ingredient for a mold that is 1 foot long 3.5 in tall and 3.5 in wide.

the ingredients we plan on using for our soap is:

Shea Butter
Olive Oil
Sunflower Seed Oil
Coconut Oil
Beeswax
Honey
Lye
Water
Oatmeal
Fragrance oil

any help would be much appreciated.


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## snappyllama (Sep 28, 2015)

Hi and welcome!

I think the best place to start would be to go through the last few pages on the beginner forum and regular cp sections.  Reading through the recipes mentioned will help to give an understanding of good recipes and how to formulate one.  Once you have come up with one, post it back here along with what your intentions are (bar for people with dry skin, all around bath bar, etc).  That will give us something juicy to review.

On those threads, you'll likely see folks mentioning a similar recipe over and over again. 

Another helpful thing is to watch the Soaping 101 to see the basics in action. The videos build on one another so start with the oldest last.


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## IrishLass (Sep 28, 2015)

Welcome! :wave: 

Here is the formula for figuring out how big of a batch to make to fit a mold (all the measurements are taken from the inside dimensions of the mold): L x W x H x .4 = the size batch to make based on how much oil/fat the recipe contains. So, if those were the inside dimensions of your mold, the size batch that would fit in your mold would be 3.6 lbs. 

Since it looks like this will be your first batch, I would not make a batch as big as 3.6 lbs. For those first starting out, it's best to stick to smaller size batches such as 1 lb. until you get a handle on things. The reason for that is the fairly big learning curve that comes part and parcel with making lye-based soaps. So many things can go wrong and it would be a shame to have wasted 3 pounds of oils/fats. Good news, though- you can easily make a 1 lb. batch in your mold by only pouring enough batter to fill the mold to a 1" depth. You'll end up with 4 perfect 3.5" x 2.5" x 1" bars with a little left over to cut into sample bars. 

As for how much of each of your ingredients to use, that's really going to depend on several factors, such as your skin's personal likes/dislikes (do you have dry skin or oily skin?). If your skin tends towards the dry side, you may not want to use too much coconut oil in your formula. Another factor to take into consideration is the kind of lather you prefer- the fluffy bubble-type or more of the creamy-type? 

I agree with Snappy in that it would be of tremendous benefit to read through the forum to get a handle on how to formulate towards your skin's personal likes/dislikes. The Soapmaking 101 videos are very helpful as well. Here is another great resource on how to formulate a recipe just for you: http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/coldprocesssoapmaking/a/createcprecipe.htm 

As far as how much beeswax and honey to add, speaking only for myself (others will differ in what they prefer), I don't like going over 2% of beeswax ppo (per pound of oil) in my recipe. I find that too much more than that cuts in on the lathering abilities of my soap formula.

As for honey- again- speaking only for myself- I like to use 1 tablespoon ppo (per pound of oil).


IrishLass


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## wt168048 (Sep 28, 2015)

Thanks for the reply Snapplyllama and Irish Lass.  yes those are the correct deminisons of the inside of our mold.  I'm going to throw some amounts out there and you tell me how it sounds.  

Shea Butter- 2.5 ounces
Olive Oil- 14.4 ounces
Sunflower Seed Oil- 9 ounces
Coconut Oil- 7.2 ounces
Beeswax- 2.9 ounces
Honey- 2 ounces
Lye- 4.937 ounces
Water- 11.88 ounces
Oatmeal- 1.45 ounces
Fragrance oil- 2.45 ounces

i got some of these numbers from a soap calc.  please let me know your thoughts.

thanks


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## snappyllama (Sep 28, 2015)

I'd separate your recipe into the following since recipes are normally handled in this manner so you can calculate your lye and resize it easily in case you get a new mold.

Regular Recipe
2.5 oz  Shea Butter 7.55%
14.4 oz Olive Oil 43.50%
9.0 oz Sunflower 27.19%
7.2 oz Coconut Oil 21.75%
Water (run through a lye calculator - leave at SoapCalc default 38% while you're learning)
Lye (run through a lye calculator)

Additives
Beeswax: I don't use this additive, but you should be able to find amounts folks tend to use
Honey: I like 1 tsp ppo, but some folks go higher. 
Oatmeal: I like 1 tbsp ppo
Fragrance: Varies based on allowable amounts. Your seller should give you a max amount. Don't go above 1oz ppo, but only go that high if it's within the manufacturer's allowable limit.

I'd encourage you to leave out the additives for your first few soaps, then add them in one at a time so you can see what it does to your soap.  

Now onto the soap recipe you mentioned...

As far as the base soap goes, that Sunflower being so high will most likely cause DOS.  Try to keep your fatty acids of linoleic + linolenic to under 15.  I don;t tend to like recipes with a lot of soft oils, so someone else would be better to weigh in on that.

ETA: For FOs... most folks go between .5 and 1 oz ppo. Some EOs have a much lower allowable limit and can injure you at .5 ppo (like clove).


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## Susie (Sep 28, 2015)

Are you opposed to using animal fats (specifically lard)?


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## cmzaha (Sep 28, 2015)

Just throwing in my 2 cents worth. I would forego the honey and beeswax until you have a few batches of soap under your belt. Both are known to overheat in soap. I agree with IrishLass with the 2% beeswax and it is listed in soap calc. It is just better to start off with a simple recipe and 1-2 lb batches when learning.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Sep 28, 2015)

I agree with the above - make a few 1lb/500g batches with the oil mix that you are interested in, plain water, no additives.  Then try one additive alone, then another alone and so on, then combine two etc etc - otherwise you will never know what each one is bringing to the party.  

As an example, the last time I made shaving soap I wanted to try out milk of the goat and lanolin.  In order to find out what they were like, I made 4 batches - neither ingredient, one with lanolin, one with milk, one with both.  That way I could test each to really understand what (if anything) the additive was bringing.  Had I just made a batch with the lanolin and milk, I would never be sure which one was making my soap better.

Not only that, but troubleshooting for a beginner is easier with a more simple recipe.


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## wt168048 (Sep 28, 2015)

alright here's another recipe idea. as for oils:

Shea Butter- 10.26%
Olive Oil- 36.36%
Sunflower Seed Oil- 17.6%
Coconut Oil- 35.77%


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Sep 28, 2015)

That would be much too much Coconut for many tastes - while coconut OIL is lovely, you are going to make soap and will have sodium cocoate, not coconut oil - this is a good example to remember that the properties of an oil do not always apply when you are making a soap with it.  The two can be worlds apart, as is the case with coconut oil.

If you don't want to use lard then I would use the recipe that Snappyllama posted - but I would make sure to buy high oleic sunflower oil


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## wt168048 (Sep 28, 2015)

If im needing less coconut oil, what am i needing more of?


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## Susie (Sep 28, 2015)

wt168048 said:


> If im needing less coconut oil, what am i needing more of?



You can have up to 15% Shea Butter without overly impacting lather.  And the rest to OO.


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## wt168048 (Sep 28, 2015)

OK here is another idea.  I hope its OK that i'm posting multiple recipes.

15% shea butter
45% olive oil
12% sunflower oil
28% coconut oil


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## Susie (Sep 28, 2015)

I only wonder WHY you are posting multiple recipes.  I can't figure out if you are a newbie trying to guess at a good recipe, or an experienced person trying to help.  If you also need a recipe, please state so.  If you are trying to help, posting multiple recipes and asking for correction is unlikely to help the OP.


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## traderbren (Sep 28, 2015)

If this is your first batch of soap, I suggest using the recipe Snappy posted above. It's fairly simple, uses the ingredients you have, and will give you a good starting point. Give it a few weeks to cure, and see how you like it. You might find it is too drying from higher % of coconut oil. Or you might like it, in which case you can experiment with additives. 

If you are not opposed to animal fats, there is an awesome lard recipe that comes up often in the beginner threads. Give that a shot so you have a good solid recipe to get the hang of soapmaking.


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## wt168048 (Sep 28, 2015)

I am the original poster.  I am asking for recipes.

snappyllamas recipe is my original one but with percentages.  that is what was confusing me.


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## Susie (Sep 28, 2015)

Sorry, I seem to have brain damage today.  I absolutely derped on who the OP was.  

Do you have any objection to using animal fats?


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## wt168048 (Sep 28, 2015)

Haha its alright.  I was kinda getting confused also.  as for animal fats, i would rather not use them right now but maybe in the future.  the recipe i narrowed it down to as for oils is 

Shea Butter- 15%
Olive Oil- 45%
Sunflower Oil- 12%
Coconut Oil- 28%

and these numbers gave me quality of:

38 hardness
19 cleansing
59 conditioning
19 bubbly
19 creamy
65 Iodine
144 INS

does this sound like a good combo?  i have been using soapcalc for these numbers.


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## KristaMarie (Sep 28, 2015)

Personally, I'd bump the coconut down to 20 and up the sunflower to 20. Give or take. That recipe might be great if you don't have dry skin though!

 ETA: only use that much SO if it's high oleic


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## Susie (Sep 28, 2015)

Why are you avoiding animal fats right now?  I only ask because you are depriving yourself of some of the best soap. (Note-I said SOME of the best soap.  I am not talking bad about vegan soaps!)


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## Dana89 (Sep 29, 2015)

I have to agree that using additive such as honey and beeswax may not be the best thing too do with your first batch. The first time I used honey I ended up with an overheated mess. Honey may help with your lather and beeswax does help with hardness but it also hinders lather.
If you are really anxious to use your own honey and beeswax I would suggest looking into lotion bars, sugar scrubs and lip balm. Then after you have a couple of soap batches under your belt try adding in 2% Beeswax and a small amount of honey. I do not like beeswax in my soap because it really does hinder the lather in my recipe, but you may really like it.
Here is a link to The Soap Queens blog with instructions on using beeswax in soap as well as other skin care products.
http://www.soapqueen.com/bramble-berry-news/sunday-night-spotlight-beeswax/


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## wt168048 (Sep 29, 2015)

Dana89 said:


> I have to agree that using additive such as honey and beeswax may not be the best thing too do with your first batch. The first time I used honey I ended up with an overheated mess. Honey may help with your lather and beeswax does help with hardness but it also hinders lather.
> If you are really anxious to use your own honey and beeswax I would suggest looking into lotion bars, sugar scrubs and lip balm. Then after you have a couple of soap batches under your belt try adding in 2% Beeswax and a small amount of honey. I do not like beeswax in my soap because it really does hinder the lather in my recipe, but you may really like it.
> Here is a link to The Soap Queens blog with instructions on using beeswax in soap as well as other skin care products.
> http://www.soapqueen.com/bramble-berry-news/sunday-night-spotlight-beeswax/



We have already gone the lotion bars and lip balm route with the wax and honey.  With 33.1 ounces of oil do you think 1 ounce of honey and 1 ounce of wax would be too much?


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## doriettefarm (Sep 30, 2015)

If my math is correct, 1oz of beeswax in 33oz of base oils works out to approx 3%.  That's higher than I've used in the past (no more than 2%).  I'm always paranoid about soaping hotter to keep the beeswax melted and potential overheating so I've never added honey to a beeswax batch.  I'd also like to figure out how to do a milk soap with beeswax but it doesn't seem like a good combo.  1oz of honey for that batch size seems high to me.  I think most folks use 1tsp - 1TBSP max PPO and again be cautious of overheating!


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## Dana89 (Sep 30, 2015)

If your going to use the honey you may want to put your freshly poured soap in the freezer for 12-24 hours, and start soaping at room temp, which is hard to do with beeswax because it has a high melting point.


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## dixiedragon (Sep 30, 2015)

In contrast to many soapers, I have never had a honey soap over heat. (knock on wood). I use 5% beeswax and 1 tablespoon of honey PPO (per pound of oil), so I'm not going light on either of them. I also don't put my soap in the fridge or freezer. I have a theory that it's the combination of honey + fragrance that causes the problem, since most folks seem to use a honey FO or an oatmeal, milk and honey FO.

I also soap with lard, which I have found to be far better behaved than all veggie soaps. In my experience, when I use things like cocoa butter, shea butter or palm to make a hard all-veggie soap, the soap is just not as well behaved as a lard soap. I also soap with full water, which again slows things down and makes the soap behave better.

Here is my recipe:
20% coconut oil
35% lard
20% olive
5% beeswax
10% sunflower
5% castor

Do you have individual molds? If so, make a small batch, then use those. It is much easier to keep individual molds cooler and prevent over heating.

I also don't soap this cool. I'm not sure how that would work - you'd have little bits of beeswax in your soap?

I let the lye water reach room temperature, but I accept that the oils are going to be hot. Honey and beeswax don't seem to blend with the oils, they seem to want to separate, so I blast the pot of oils with my stick blender so everything is well mixed, then slowly pour in my lye water. Make sure your soaping pot is much bigger than your batch - about 3x bigger. That way if your soap overheats in the pot and starts gelling in the pot, you can just keep stirring and let it do its thing. 

Google for pics of hot process soap so you know what this process looks like. It is scary looking if you aren't expecting it, but it's actually not a bad thing. Here are some pics. This is in a crock pot, but this can happen in a stock pot as well.

http://littlehouseinthesuburbs.com/2008/09/making-hot-process-soap-in-crock-pot.html

It hasn't happened to me with honey soap, but it has happened to me with some fragrances. I think what is happening is the soap gets so hot that the reaction is sped up a lot, and the soap starts to separate. So your soap will look like an oily, curdled mess and you may be sad and think it is ruined. It is not! Just keep stirring!


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## dixiedragon (Sep 30, 2015)

BTW, I'm sure you've noticed that you are getting conflicting advice. That's because we all find a process that works for us, our particular preferences and ingredients, etc.


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## TeaLeavesandTweed (Sep 30, 2015)

wt168048 said:


> We have already gone the lotion bars and lip balm route with the wax and honey.  With 33.1 ounces of oil do you think 1 ounce of honey and 1 ounce of wax would be too much?



If you've never made soap before, you might want to consider doing at least one batch to start without any honey or beeswax or scent or color, as these complicate the recipe. That way you can get the hang of calculating a recipe, weighing your ingredients, mixing the lye water, determining when your soap is at trace, getting it in the mold, and getting it through saponification without the added complication of additives that can cause problems.

Just so you know, I'm not talking down: I'm a newbie myself and I ruined my first batch of lye water! So not having to worry about color or fragrance made that much easier to deal with.

Then, once you have a basic soap formula, you can come back here and try out the recommendations for the additives you want to use.


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## wt168048 (Oct 20, 2015)

Hey everyone.

Here with an update. We have made 5 batches of soap so far and it seems to be going great. the recipe we went with was:

Olive oil- 45%
Cocunut oil- 28%
Shea butter- 15%
Sunflower oil- 12%
Honey- 1 tabelspoon
Beeswax- 1 ounce

have also been using fragrance oils.  our batches are around 3 pounds so we use around 1.25 ounces of FO.

Here are the pictures.
The last two are Honeysuckle oatmeal.

Let me know what you all think!

thanks!


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## IrishLass (Oct 20, 2015)

They look great! Good job! 


IrishLass


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## Dharlee (Oct 20, 2015)

I am impressed! Next test will come after they fully cure and you can decide if they are too hard, too soft, bubbly enough, etc, or hopefully spot on! Sounds also like you're keeping good records of everything. I did not at the beginning and Irish Lass caught a mistake I made in a recipe. It helped me so much. I am really happy for you! And I want to also say it's wonderful to see some folks that are trying to help our poor bees. I for one am really worried about them!


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## wt168048 (Oct 20, 2015)

Thanks everyone!

One question i have.  the hardest part of this is making the freezer paper fit in the molds.  so i looked around and found some silicon liners that are the size we are looking for.  My question is,  is there a difference in the soap when you use a silicon liner vs. wax paper?


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## wt168048 (Oct 27, 2015)

how would this turn out if we were to remove the shea butter. We were to just use Olive oil, cocounut oil, and sunflower oil. Along with the bees wax and the honey.

CO- 30%
OO- 45%
SO- 25%

thanks!


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## shunt2011 (Oct 27, 2015)

What you need to do is give it a try and see how you like it.  What one person likes another one may dislike.  Most of us tried a whole lot of different recipes until we found what works best for us. So, I recommend you try the same thing.


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## wt168048 (Oct 27, 2015)

sorry i guess my question is.  What does Shea butter do for my soap and how will it affect my soap is removed.  and what will increasing the sunflower oil also do to my soap?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 27, 2015)

That's the point - so much is theory and the rest is practice. Many people find no difference with Shea, some do - so only you can answer the question you are asking. 

Are you looking to get a recipe for selling soap?


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## Cactuslily (Oct 27, 2015)

one thing I'd suggest, is to make a copy of all the oil and butters that tell you what they all bring to the party so to speak, and what their profiles are with suggested useage rates. Knowing the properties of the oils and butters  you are using will enable you to make a bar that is what you are personally looking for. As was stated earlier, what one person likes another may not. This is the beauty of making your own soap. And, as always, run your numbers through soapcalc even if it's another persons recipe or something you find online. Run your recipe through soapcalc without the shea and see what it does to your soap. Misprints can happen, and it's just a good habit to get into IMO. Most importantly, have fun! Happy soaping!


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## IrishLass (Oct 27, 2015)

If you remove the shea butter and increase the sunflower oil, your soap will be much softer and your linoleic acid percentage (in the fatty acid profile on SoapCalc) will go from 15% to a whopping 24%. Most of us like to formulate in such a way that the linoleic % goes no higher than 15% (in order to keep DOS at bay). 

But, if you were to use High Oleic (HO) Sunflower oil instead of regular Sunflower, though, you'll have a more manageable level of linoleic (7%). 

This is just my opinion, but I like the looks of your first recipe with shea a lot better, even if you were to use HO Sunflower instead of regular in the shea-less version. The one with shea just looks to be a lot more balanced.


IrishLass


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