# Eureka, maybe



## Catscankim (Sep 11, 2020)

I am sure that many of you have read my whining about my last few batches accelerating EVERY single time. I thought i narrowed it down to increasing my FO percentage. But i made a batch last night using Obsidians Lard soap recipe and minimal FO, which i have used before. Plop plop into the mold again.

I woke up today with a possible cause (guess sleeping on it makes sense now lol).

I have usually let soapcalc determine my lye/water. Lately i have been manually entering in my “lye concentration” to 33%. I don't know why this didn't occur to me before...

I am still learning all of this stuff, so forgive me for being stupid. I feel like the more advanced learning i try to do, the more likely my soaps are gonna fail.

Running it through soapcalc again today with the defaults, the recipe was almost 100 grams of water more than when manually entering 33% lye concentration.

This is my problem?


----------



## gardengeek (Sep 11, 2020)

You mean you just leave it at the default of 38% Water as a Percent of Oils? That would be more water than a 33% lye concentration. I never use the Water as a %; I use the Lye Concentration just because it makes more sense to my brain.


----------



## shunt2011 (Sep 11, 2020)

I'm confused on your statement.   Did you change it to 33% lye concentration or just left it at its default setting on the calculator?   Even so, more water should't make it set up faster.    I only use lye concentration as well.


----------



## Catscankim (Sep 11, 2020)

I was just leaving it at that default when punching in my recipes.. Lately i have been changing to lye concentration and manually putting in 33% instead.  I am quite sure it is something that is not clicking in my brain.

I guess i am saying the whole thing wrong lol.

Up until the past week or two, I never touched the lye/water settings on soap calc and used what they said i should use. I was soaping that way for my long 3 month career.

Then i started to change the default from water:lye ratio, to lye concentration to 33%.


----------



## shunt2011 (Sep 11, 2020)

Okay, now I understand.  Even at 33% lye concentration with a high lard recipe should give you plenty of time to play.  I use 40-45% lard with 10% Shea and have lots of time.  I'm thinking you are still over blending.  You only need to bring it to emulsion.   If using FO that you know how it behaves, add it to your oils before the lye.   Are you adding any other additives?


----------



## Catscankim (Sep 11, 2020)

I have been soaping cooler and forcing myself to SB less than i used to. There has to be a variable that i am missing.

Same recipe. I only changed the lye concentration to 33%

hang on. I posted the wrong pictures lol


----------



## Obsidian (Sep 11, 2020)

while most everyone recommends using a set amount of water, such as 33% solution. If using the default setting works for you, then keep doing it.


----------



## Jersey Girl (Sep 11, 2020)

I agree with @shunt2011 that you are possibly over-blending. Especially if you are used to working with the higher amount in the past. I have found that it only takes a few seconds of SBing to get where I need to be to start separating/coloring etc.


----------



## Catscankim (Sep 11, 2020)

I am confusing myself now.



Obsidian said:


> while most everyone recommends using a set amount of water, such as 33% solution. If using the default setting works for you, then keep doing it.


Ok lol. I feel like i have ruined so many soaps lately lol


----------



## Obsidian (Sep 11, 2020)

It would be worth making a small batch to test your theory. Its a easy fix if thats what it is.


----------



## Jersey Girl (Sep 11, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> I am confusing myself now.


Maybe do some experimenting and meet halfway with a 30% lye concentration and go from there. There are a lot of benefits to using less water imo.


----------



## Catscankim (Sep 11, 2020)

I am getting ready to make another batch. I just have to use a different fo, but its one that i have use successfully befor, but everything else is going to be the same.


----------



## dibbles (Sep 11, 2020)

Going from the default to 33% is a fairly big jump. When I want to be assured of a lot of working time I will use 30-31% lye concentration. If you want to decrease the amount of water you are using, try smaller increments and see if there is a sweet spot for you.
ETA: LOL Jersey Girl - great minds!


----------



## Catscankim (Sep 11, 2020)

dibbles said:


> Going from the default to 33% is a fairly big jump. When I want to be assured of a lot of working time I will use 30-31% lye concentration. If you want to decrease the amount of water you are using, try smaller increments and see if there is a sweet spot for you.
> ETA: LOL Jersey Girl - great minds!


I used your recipe and recommendation of 30% for salt bars and they behaved nicely.

After being totally perplexed all week about none of my previously used recipes working for me...I literally woke up today and compared both lye concentrations and eureka.

I will let you all know how my experiment goes today. One day it will all click


----------



## TheGecko (Sep 11, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> But i made a batch last night using Obsidians Lard soap recipe and minimal FO, which i have used before. Plop plop into the mold again.



Water alone isn't going to cause 'plop-plop', how much stick blending are you doing?


----------



## linne1gi (Sep 11, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> I am sure that many of you have read my whining about my last few batches accelerating EVERY single time. I thought i narrowed it down to increasing my FO percentage. But i made a batch last night using Obsidians Lard soap recipe and minimal FO, which i have used before. Plop plop into the mold again.
> 
> I woke up today with a possible cause (guess sleeping on it makes sense now lol).
> 
> ...


The 38% "default" in SoapCalc was originally intended for HP soap making since when you are making HP soap a lot of moisture is lost during the cook.  If you are using that much water, that is a big mistake.   Yes the batter will be fluid longer, but this will bring on a whole host of new problems.  With that much water, your soap will tend to overheat quicker.  The soap will stay hot longer and you will probably get the crackling appearance we call glycerine rivers.  The soap will also tend to have lots more soda ash.  It is more important that you learn to control your stick blending.  Most new soapers have this problem.  I literally stick blend for less than 10 seconds total in most recipes.  You need to look for emulsion, not trace.   The 33% lye concentration you have been using is totally the best advice anyone has even given you.


----------



## Kiya (Sep 11, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> I am sure that many of you have read my whining about my last few batches accelerating EVERY single time. I thought i narrowed it down to increasing my FO percentage. But i made a batch last night using Obsidians Lard soap recipe and minimal FO, which i have used before. Plop plop into the mold again.
> 
> I woke up today with a possible cause (guess sleeping on it makes sense now lol).
> 
> ...



I didn’t see your other post so maybe you’ve already been over this buuut I had similar issues with acceleration in my batches. I figured out eventually I was soaping too hot. (around 120F) I lowered my Temperatures to around 100F (Or lower) and I haven’t had that issue since.

 Also stick blending the fragrance oil can make a batch accelerate like crazy if you’re not careful.


----------



## Catscankim (Sep 11, 2020)

So last nights batch didnt come out as bad as i thought. Heres the cut. Got some air bubbles, but not the big holes i expected. The tops came out wonky from trying to smooth it out, so i cut them off. I was going for nice square bars to try out a string pull deco on the sides.

I didnt make the next batch yet, i have some lye cooling. But i am gonna give the lower lye concentration a go again. Also going to soap cooler. These were done at 104. And yes, i will mind my stickblending.

Blending to emulsion is what i have been aiming for, which i think is what i do. Its when i add the fo and mica and give it another couple of bursts is where i think i am finding trouble. I feel like i should video tape myself to see where it goes from nice to “oh crap” lol.

The smell on these is Juicy Couture by Elements and the color is Angry Rose by MM.


----------



## lenarenee (Sep 11, 2020)

I've never soap at 104, but I suspect that is at least part of the acceleration problem. You recipe is very similar to my favorite recipe; I soap "cold" - aka room temp. Sometimes there's no discernable heat coming from lye or oils.  Unless I have an accelerating fo, I have a good hour+ to work with (often a triple batch to make 3 different soaps). I stick blend to emulsion or almost trace.


----------



## Catscankim (Sep 11, 2020)

You are all going to think im a dingbat lol. My stickblender has settings and it was all the way up. I have had this sb since before soaping and i never realized it had settings. There are 8 speeds. Apparently its on mach speed lol.

still waiting for everything to cool down on this next batch.


----------



## Jersey Girl (Sep 11, 2020)

I‘ve never soaped at room temp in fact I almost always soap above 100.  I do a lot of swirl designs.  Recipe and FO as well as recognizing emulsion and not over using the SB are what I have found key to slowing things down.


----------



## dibbles (Sep 12, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> So last nights batch didnt come out as bad as i thought. Heres the cut. Got some air bubbles, but not the big holes i expected. The tops came out wonky from trying to smooth it out, so i cut them off. I was going for nice square bars to try out a string pull deco on the sides.
> 
> I didnt make the next batch yet, i have some lye cooling. But i am gonna give the lower lye concentration a go again. Also going to soap cooler. These were done at 104. And yes, i will mind my stickblending.
> 
> ...


I’d be happy with those. FWIW, I soap between 85 and 95 most of the time.


----------



## Catscankim (Sep 12, 2020)

She is cpop’ing right now. It was better, no plop plop, but still thicker than i hoped for.

And i know everybody thinks the newbie is stickblending too much. It was literally less than 5 seconds. Plus i reduced the settings on the SB. Added the mica and I stirred with the spatula to get the bottoms and sides. It was already getting thick so i whisked a little to losen it up and poured.

FO was added to the oils to reduce the amt of blending i need to do.

Oh and i soaped at 92 degrees

I mean, its better. I cant imagine trying to do a swirl with it though.


----------



## dibbles (Sep 12, 2020)

So, what was the FO?


----------



## Catscankim (Sep 12, 2020)

Downpour by Elements. 2 ounces. The mica was Turquoise Teal by Crafters choice. 4tsp mixed with 4T of oils from the batch


----------



## Arimara (Sep 12, 2020)

You should have some play time though, especially with your recipe. maybe try the lowest setting on the stick blender.


----------



## Marsi (Sep 12, 2020)

Your soap looks good already
I think your soap is going to be amazing once you have got the batter to your liking!

Looking at your blue soap, it seems to be either ricing or has a lot of little bubbles pulled in by your stick blender
Try "burping" your stick blender to remove bubbles and then blend for only half a second to start

Stir or whisk to get the level of thickness you want
Slowing down will let you see what is going on more clearly


----------



## Catscankim (Sep 12, 2020)

Marsi said:


> Your soap looks good already
> I think your soap is going to be amazing once you have got the batter to your liking!
> 
> Looking at your blue soap, it seems to be either ricing or has a lot of little bubbles pulled in by your stick blender
> ...


I think the bubbles are the alcohol i sprayed on top. If you look at the edges of the mold, it has the overspray. I guess we shall see tomorrow. You might be right, but i didnt notice any problems with pouring. My phone picks up on things that arent visible to the naked eye lol


----------



## Marsi (Sep 12, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> My phone picks up on things that arent visible to the naked eye lol


old cameras are being used for styling photos
trends are funny

Im looking forward to the cut pictures


----------



## dibbles (Sep 12, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> Downpour by Elements. 2 ounces. The mica was Turquoise Teal by Crafters choice. 4tsp mixed with 4T of oils from the batch


That might have contributed to a faster trace. The notes in the fragrance description say slight acceleration. Rain, ocean, water, ozone FOs often accelerate.


----------



## Obsidian (Sep 12, 2020)

Have you tried a unscented batch? That would be my next step


----------



## Catscankim (Sep 12, 2020)

I did two batches yesterday with the exact same recipe (oils). The blue one is at 33% and i have a brown one at 38%. The 33% got pretty thick on me again, but it was easier to handle than my previous attempts. The 38% was super fluid, to the point of having to leave it sit between layers. I even used a known accelerating FO and it still remained fluid.

I guess i will see with the cuts, but the more i look at my rose colored one that i did at 33%, the more i am in love with the texture...and zero ash.

Sooooo....i am going to have to figure it out with the 33%. Soaping cooler and sb less is what i am going to have to work on i think.

Maybe its just that i have been using the wrong concentration for so long that i got used to having so much time with the batter. Like i gotta start over lol.


----------



## LilianNoir (Sep 12, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> Its when i add the fo and mica and give it another couple of bursts is where i think i am finding trouble.


Don't use the SB to blend in FO and color. That alone (with your higher setting) is contributing. Unless you're using a color that's tricky to blend in (I've seen people recommend SB'ing TD) use a whisk to mix in any additives. I've seen a few soapers on Youtube mention that once they get to emulsion they don't even touch the SB again, and I've found that following the same approach has helped keep my batter fluid.


----------



## Catscankim (Sep 13, 2020)

These are the cuts from the blue loaf, soaped at 33%


----------



## TashaBird (Sep 13, 2020)

@Catscankim It took me dozens of batches and some incredible mental gymnastics to reduce my soaping temps to 90 and my SB to about 15 pulses and about 20 stirs. But, then the whole situation transformed and I have a luxurious amount of time!
I also agree with @LilianNoir once I add fragrance and mica I only stir with a spatula or a whisk at the most.


----------



## Catscankim (Sep 13, 2020)

Well, i am waiting for a very small batch of lye to cool down for a different experiment. Its only 300 grams of soap. Im doing 33% lye concentration, but i dont think i can even sb it. No color or fo. Im not even sure what i should do with it. My sb would beat it up lol.


----------



## Obsidian (Sep 13, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> Well, i am waiting for a very small batch of lye to cool down for a different experiment. Its only 300 grams of soap. Im doing 33% lye concentration, but i dont think i can even sb it. No color or fo. Im not even sure what i should do with it. My sb would beat it up lol.



Mix it in a tall skinny container so the SB is submerged.


----------



## LilianNoir (Sep 13, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> These are the cuts from the blue loaf, soaped at 33%


it's pretty!


----------



## Krashdragon (Sep 13, 2020)

It's a nice color of blue.
Good luck with your soaping. I like to read how people overcome soapy challanges, that'll help when I get a chance to start making soap. For now, I just read. and watch youtube vids.


----------



## The Park Bench (Sep 13, 2020)

I absolutely love the color! Great job!


----------



## Catscankim (Sep 17, 2020)

2 batches made at 33% lye concentration. They are working out well. so ok...you guys have me sold lol

I poured today at 92 degrees. 33% lye concentration. Had to blend a lot with the spatula. It was very fluid. Took my time with the batter and did an in the pot swirl. It might not be as amazing to every body else, but i didn't think i could do it since i been doing it wrong all along lol.


----------



## Dibennett (Sep 19, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> I was just leaving it at that default when punching in my recipes.. Lately i have been changing to lye concentration and manually putting in 33% instead.  I am quite sure it is something that is not clicking in my brain.
> 
> I guess i am saying the whole thing wrong lol.
> 
> ...


Elly’s Everyday on YouTube has a couple of tutorials on lye solution calculations which really helped me, take a look at her tutorials she is really clear and easy to follow.


----------

