# Butter-only soap?



## AttackedByCoconutOil (Feb 16, 2021)

I'm wondering if you can actually make soap using butters and no liquid-at-room-temperature oils, and if so, which would be the best candidates.  I will take anything that cleans well enough to deal with germs.  Preferably it would lather a little and not completely fall apart, but I really just need this to hit the reset button on all these pseudo-allergies and at that point, I can probably add some rice bran oil. 

I have what amounts to an extremely large number of allergies.  As far as I can tell, none of them are life-threatening.  If it would help to know which oils I've tested and determined that I react to, I can do so, but I'm not including them in this post because the list is absurdly long.  The least bad of the oils I react to are refined olive oil and rice bran oil.  I have never tried oat oil but oats are pretty safe so I could definitely try that.  I have found that I seem to be okay with both shea butter and kokum butter (but not mango butter).  If this seems viable, I plan to try some others to test this theory.

I react to every single liquid-at-room-temperature oil I have tried.  I react to Mango butter but not shea butter or kokum butter, so I'm thinking I may be able to find a number of these "butter" ingredients I can tolerate.  I've also been vegan for the past 10 years so I am really hoping to avoid animal ingredients.  

In case anyone is curious, I have been using French green clay to "wash" my hair and it is weirdly effective.  So I could make green soap!


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## Arimara (Feb 17, 2021)

This title scared me so bad. I wish I could give you an answer but unfortunately, I'd need to know what all the butters you have tried that you don't have a reaction too. Such a soap may be tricky to make and extrememely brittle so if you haven't any, I'd suggest some individual molds to save yourself some issue.


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## AliOop (Feb 17, 2021)

I responded on your other thread with a recipe suggestion. And I agree with Arimara that cavity molds are the way to go. Not only would the soap be brittle, but it would probably harden so fast that it would be easy to miss the cutting window for a loaf.


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## Babyshoes (Feb 17, 2021)

If you do try a tiny batch, I'd be curious to know how it comes out...


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## GemstonePony (Feb 17, 2021)

Can you use castor oil? Otherwise, I'd go with all kokum butter. 3% SF, 3:1 liquid: lye. Yes, the liquid is high, so it may take a little more time to unmold and may warp a little as it cures, but it will give you more time to make sure everything is properly emulsified before you're stirring putty. Also, you're probably looking at a 3 month cure, so it's not cutting into potential use time if it takes a little longer to dry out.
I recommend a 1-1.5 tsp of sugar or Sorbitol or 1-1.5 TBS of honey per pound of oil, dissolved in half the liquid and then frozen. Other half the liquid mixed with lye and then sugar-liquid ice cubes added to lye. The sugar will accelerate your batch, but without it the kokum butter soap may be too insoluble to lather well.
If you want any clays, soak them in additional distilled water for a few hours before blending them into your melted kokum. Also, blend any colors, fragrances/essential oils, etc, into the melted kokum before your lye-mixture goes in.
Due to how fast this is likely to react, I recommend using a silicone whisk to combine it, and a spatula to scrape out the corners. Based on my experience with similar formulations, you'll probably reach emulsion in a minute or so of stirring and thick trace the consistency of pudding at 2 minutes with whisk and spatula alone. Have your molds ready before the lye hits the oil, including a place to put extra batter.
Edited to add: I strongly recommend individual cavity molds only, at least for the first time.


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## cmzaha (Feb 17, 2021)

If using all butter I would recommend you using dual lye which will help your soap to make it more soluble. If you use the soap calc from this site it will figure it for you.  Soapmaking Recipe Builder & Lye Calculator   I would go with 5% KOH 95 KaOH (Hybrid soap option). You can find information Here is some information about using dual lye written by our resident chemist DeeAnna Dual lye recipe | Soapy Stuff


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## ResolvableOwl (Feb 17, 2021)

Cocoa? Cupuaçu? Shea oil (liquid fraction of shea butter)? Palm oil? Butter butter (cow, sheep, goat)?

Just to have something to chat about. One finds good reasons to complain about any of them, and be it the mere price.


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## Arimara (Feb 17, 2021)

ResolvableOwl said:


> Cocoa? Cupuaçu? Shea oil (liquid fraction of shea butter)? Palm oil? Butter butter (cow, sheep, goat)?
> 
> Just to have something to chat about. One finds good reasons to complain about any of them, and be it the mere price.


Butter is a hard no from the vast majority of us. You're perfectly free to use it but you will smell like feet cheese. That smell lingers too. I have never been the fool who made it but my sister did.


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## GemstonePony (Feb 17, 2021)

ResolvableOwl said:


> Cocoa? Cupuaçu? Shea oil (liquid fraction of shea butter)? Palm oil? Butter butter (cow, sheep, goat)?
> 
> Just to have something to chat about. One finds good reasons to complain about any of them, and be it the mere price.


Dairy butter in soap smells like vomit, and will make the person using it smell like vomit. You are free to smell of it if you wish, but I would not recommend it to any individual wishing to be perceived as clean.
Edited to add, OP has an extremely extensive list of allergies, and is vegan.


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## AttackedByCoconutOil (Feb 17, 2021)

Thanks for all the ideas!  Sounds like this may be ill-advised but it sounds like I could at least make soap I react to less by adding a smaller amount of liquid oil than would be in most soap. I've never actually made any soap before so I'm not going to attempt to add any color for a while but I may eventually.  

I didn't know shea oil was a thing!  I'm going to have to try that.  I also need to try castor oil.  It looks like it is different enough from most oil that there is at least a chance it would work.

I can use sugar!  I can use that even if I forget my antihistamine. 

Cocoa butter is on my list to try.  Cupuacu is on my list of things I might try.  Unfortunately I react to palm oil.  Less than coconut oil or grapeseed oil, but more than a number of others.  

Next week I may be able to up the antihistamines, which hopefully will make this easier.

Thanks everyone!!!


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## GemstonePony (Feb 17, 2021)

Castor loosens soap up for more lather, but doesn't slow down trace. It will make butter better soap, but it won't make it an easy recipe.
Shea oil should make an easier recipe and slow down trace, as well as loosen the soap up. 

Another idea for your consideration: I call it half-processing. Melt the butters you can definitely tolerate, but keep them separate. Hot-process (I do it via microwave) the oils you don't tolerate quite as well, stirring and keeping the temps in the 130-180°f range until it's somewhat translucent. Add the rest, heat the mixture to 160-180°f, and stir until it's smooth. Pour into molds while still warm. There might be some of the less friendly oil as a superfat, but in theory it should be mostly the friendly one.


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## AliOop (Feb 17, 2021)

cmzaha said:


> If using all butter I would recommend you using dual lye which will help your soap to make it more soluble. If you use the soap calc from this site it will figure it for you.  Soapmaking Recipe Builder & Lye Calculator   I would go with 5% KOH 95 KaOH (Hybrid soap option). You can find information Here is some information about using dual lye written by our resident chemist DeeAnna Dual lye recipe | Soapy Stuff


Great suggestion, and one I never remember. I need to file "dual lye" in my brain somewhere!


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## KiwiMoose (Feb 17, 2021)

How about something along the lines of 80 shea, 15% RBO or OO and 5% castor?  Use Aloe Juice for your water to create some bubbles, or the sugar option as others have stated.
You say you have never made soap, but have you tried any hand made CP soap before?  You might find you react a lot less to them than any commercial soap anyway.  I guess you would be hard pressed to find any hand made soap with no CO though.  Not sure if you've tried Babassu oil but that's another option for CO replacement.
Another yes for using cavity moulds from me.


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## AliOop (Feb 17, 2021)

It's also quite possible that some or all of the oils which cause reactions before saponification, will not create that immune response after saponification.The chemical reaction between lye and oil does alter the chemical structure of both. If that weren't the case, no one could use soap, bc the lye would burn our skin.

Not that I'm encouraging you to risk anaphylactic reactions, but just suggesting it might be worth trying a recipe such as @KiwiMoose suggested, with relatively small amounts of a liquid oil that is lower on your reaction scale. Just a thought.


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## GemstonePony (Feb 17, 2021)

Posting for reference the OP's thread where she lists her known allergies. (Edited)





						Hi!
					

Hi!  My name is Charlotte and I just joined this forum.  I've never actually made soap before, although I've made shampoo, which is kind of fun. I never planned on making my own soap but I've been essentially forced into it because of a health condition called Mast Cell Activation Syndrome.  In...




					www.soapmakingforum.com


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## AliOop (Feb 17, 2021)

Unfortunately, there are conflicting statements. At least once she has said or implied that olive oil might be ok; her exact quote from higher up in this thread: "The *least bad* of the oils I react to are refined olive oil and rice bran oil" and "sounds like I could at least make soap I react to less by adding a smaller amount of liquid oil than would be in most soap." 

She also said above that these reactions were not life-threatening. Unless there has been more testing completed since the time those statements were made, it did not sound to me like those were absolutely a no-go.

This is where it would have been best for the OP to keep her questions all in one thread, since what is said in one thread, is confusing when compared with the other thread.


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## GemstonePony (Feb 17, 2021)

I posted something disrespectful, and removed it once Alioop pointed it out. This was my apology, and now we've both amended our posts.


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## AliOop (Feb 17, 2021)

Thanks, GP. It's also entirely possible that I just needed a nap, or coffee, or both.


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## AliOop (Feb 17, 2021)

..


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## AttackedByCoconutOil (Feb 17, 2021)

Sorry for splitting the threads; I had figured the other thread was old enough that I should make a new thread, but I can see in retrospect that it makes things a little confusing!  Will keep that in mind for the future.  

So far I have never had anaphylaxis.  I think one reason I am being confusing is that I am a little conflicted myself; on the one hand, just leaving out some of the worst oils would be an improvement; on the other hand, it would be even better if I could make some soap I don't react to at all.

For the record, I realize this Mast cell stuff totally sounds made up.  It is real but I wouldn't blame anyone for being skeptical.  The main reason I'm trying so hard to eliminate as much as possible is that it exacerbates some pain issues I have in addition to being annoying; I'm pretty sure if I were going to have anaphylaxis it would have happened by now.    

Anyway, the main thing I was going to say is that all of you have been unbelievably helpful and have answered all my questions in addition to a bunch I wouldn't have thought to ask.  I definitely have enough information now to decide on some next steps.  If I have more questions, I will return to this thread and include the stuff I left out and a list of what I do and do not react to, which I left out mostly because I'm still working on coming up with a comprehensive list.  Plus I'm hoping I can get more antihistamines and that could change things.  Anyway, I really appreciate all the help!

Also, I think I missed a suggestion earlier to try some cold process soap.  That's a good idea.  The only thing I know for a fact that I react to in a bar of soap is coconut; trying a few would give me a lot of information!


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## AliOop (Feb 17, 2021)

My daughter has mast cell issues, and it most certainly is not made up. My heart goes out to you! Please let us know if you make soap, and how it works out.


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## Arimara (Feb 18, 2021)

@AttackedByCoconutOil It's mostly self-centered ignorant folk that don't believe less common/ less heard of ailments exist. I'm still trying to figure out how I acquired it but I have anomic aphasia (and other neuro issues). It's crazy how most people don't know what aphasia is, with all the stroke survivors around.


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## BubblingBrooke (Feb 18, 2021)

My husband has a number of things he cannot eat without suffering moderate to severe pain - and most recently a pretty severe infection (diverticulitis). Found out it's a family problem and his grandmother had to have sections of her intestines removed. Has totally required major changes in how I prepare food for the family - so I totally understand how ailments can cause distress. I think a lot of people get on the soap making train because of allergies or alternate living choices. Anyhow - I don't have much to offer as far as a recipe goes. Finding a coconut and olive oil free one may be a little tricky. I know babassu is a good alternate for coconut and off Shea works well for you then that's definitely worth a shot (and is amazing in soap). You could also try different plant based milks maybe? Aloe vera juice also a great suggestion. I'm a little too new to this arena to offer much advice but I know a lot of the people in this forum are beyond helpful! Best of luck - look forward to hearing back on your experiments!


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## Iluminameluna (Feb 19, 2021)

I'm going to offer some help because of something I read elsewhere in this forum, but I'm not remotely veg, so I can't offer any help with a recipe. I can sympathize however because I have Lupus, the systemic kind, and I've become slowly intolerant to many foods and chemicals, to the point that I cook and clean separately from the rest of my family. It surely sucks rocks.
What I found was a thread on using potatoes and/or the water from boiling them to replace the CO for bubbles and lather. I know it's probably a minor matter, but those who tried it also said that adding either, the mashed potatoes and/or their water also left a nice feeling on the skin. If I find the thread, I'll come back and post it.
ETA: Here's the thread I was talking about Potato soap update
I hope it helps in some way.


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## Catscankim (Feb 19, 2021)

Iluminameluna said:


> I'm going to offer some help because of something I read elsewhere in this forum, but I'm not remotely veg, so I can't offer any help with a recipe. I can sympathize however because I have Lupus, the systemic kind, and I've become slowly intolerant to many foods and chemicals, to the point that I cook and clean separately from the rest of my family. It surely sucks rocks.
> What I found was a thread on using potatoes and/or the water from boiling them to replace the CO for bubbles and lather. I know it's probably a minor matter, but those who tried it also said that adding either, the mashed potatoes and/or their water also left a nice feeling on the skin. If I find the thread, I'll come back and post it.
> ETA: Here's the thread I was talking about Potato soap update
> I hope it helps in some way.


I am sorry if I missed it, I just looked again to see if I did, but what about a salt bar made from coconut oil. I put a small amt of castor oil in mine, but they traditionally are made with all coconut oil, right?


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## AliOop (Feb 19, 2021)

Catscankim said:


> I am sorry if I missed it, I just looked again to see if I did, but what about a salt bar made from coconut oil. I put a small amt of castor oil in mine, but they traditionally are made with all coconut oil, right?


Unfortunately the OP is allergic to coconut.


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## Arimara (Feb 19, 2021)

Is aloe vera juice or gel an option?


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## J-Soaper (Jun 28, 2021)

AttackedByCoconutOil said:


> I'm wondering if you can actually make soap using butters and no liquid-at-room-temperature oils, and if so, which would be the best candidates.  I will take anything that cleans well enough to deal with germs.  Preferably it would lather a little and not completely fall apart, but I really just need this to hit the reset button on all these pseudo-allergies and at that point, I can probably add some rice bran oil.
> 
> I have what amounts to an extremely large number of allergies.  As far as I can tell, none of them are life-threatening.  If it would help to know which oils I've tested and determined that I react to, I can do so, but I'm not including them in this post because the list is absurdly long.  The least bad of the oils I react to are refined olive oil and rice bran oil.  I have never tried oat oil but oats are pretty safe so I could definitely try that.  I have found that I seem to be okay with both shea butter and kokum butter (but not mango butter).  If this seems viable, I plan to try some others to test this theory.
> 
> ...


I made soap using 100% butter. Cow’s butter. The stuff you spread on toast.

It made nice soap — well — except for the natural fragrance. To say that it stinks is to make it sound as if it has a pleasant aroma.


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## J-Soaper (Jun 28, 2021)

J-Soaper said:


> I made soap using 100% butter. Cow’s butter. The stuff you spread on toast.
> 
> It made nice soap — well — except for the natural fragrance. To say that it stinks is to make it sound as if it has a pleasant aroma.


I still have some of it and just washed my hands with it -- to see how it performs. Very reluctant to produce any lather at all -- and it has a 100% Aloe Vera gel substitution for water. The lather it produced was very much like cream. Left my hands feeling very nice, but not smelling so pleasant.


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## ResolvableOwl (Jun 29, 2021)

My dairy butter LS lathers nicely and doesn't smell bad. It seems it's not a natural law that dairy butter soap is terrible, but it depends on raw materials and processing steps if one can live with it or not.


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## szaza (Jun 29, 2021)

@AttackedByCoconutOil did you eventually make an all butter soap? 

I'm sorry I didn't see this thread in February, I've made soap with almost 80% shea butter (the rest being coconut) and it was quite nice soap! I think you can go all the way up to 100% shea butter if you're willing to accept that it won't really have any lather. The split lye method will definitely help improve lather (I've made another soap with 0% coconut oil and a mix of butters and soft oils with split lye, the lather was small, but definitely there).

Cocoa butter is quite nice in soap, but it's a lot harder/more brittle than shea butter, so if you can't add any soft oils, I'd opt for shea butter. 
A small tip I would give you is make sure you bevel your soaps, because the edges of high butter soaps can get pretty sharp! 

Since you react to so many different things, I'd start out with a very simple (and small!) recipe and slowly add more ingredients so you can monitor how you react to them. If you do want more lather, you could try out babassu oil or palm kernel oil as they're supposed to behave quite similar to coconut oil in soap. 

Also, in regards to washing your hair with clay, have you tried rhassoul clay? I find it a bit milder than green clay ;-)


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## earlene (Jun 29, 2021)

I have made 100% Cocoa Butter soap.  I loved the odor it gave off.  It didn't bubble or lather much on it's own, but it felt nice on my skin.  So yes, you can make soap with only butters.

To create a soap that bubbles and lathers, sugars can be added instead of CO or Babassu or PKO, if those are also undesirable.

Egg can be added to soap to help with lather as well, and that might be another option to consider if one chooses to make an all butters soap.

Instead of using water for the lye solution, liquids that contain sugars can be substituted and will also contribute to bubbles, but one must take care to prevent the lye solution from bubbling up during mixing and spilling over the container.  So if any of these are chosen additives to enhance bubbles and lather, be sure to research how to safely add them to the lye solution.


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## J-Soaper (Jul 5, 2021)

earlene said:


> I have made 100% Cocoa Butter soap.  I loved the odor it gave off.  It didn't bubble or lather much on it's own, but it felt nice on my skin.  So yes, you can make soap with only butters.
> 
> To create a soap that bubbles and lathers, sugars can be added instead of CO or Babassu or PKO, if those are also undesirable.
> 
> ...


My 100% coconut oil soap lathers like there's no tomorrow. Then, I started using Aloe Vera Gel instead of water and it REALLY lathers.


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## earlene (Jul 5, 2021)

J-Soaper said:


> My 100% coconut oil soap lathers like there's no tomorrow. Then, I started using Aloe Vera Gel instead of water and it REALLY lathers.


I'm sure that is true, but the OP was asking about making soap with ONLY butters like Cocoa Butter, etc.


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