# Well, I won't be ordering from SweetCakes again



## new12soap (Jan 1, 2015)

I have a bottle of fragrance oil from SweetCakes, and I thought it might make a nice perfume, so I emailed the company and requested the IFRA usage rates for it, and got a somewhat condescending reply about basic ranges for CP and MP soap, and if I am making lotion or shower gel I will want to experiment to find what I like best.

I didn't like that answer, and I wrote back and explained that I do actually need the maximum safe usage rates for all applications as determined by the IFRA.

And the reply from them is that all of their fragrances are formulated to perform within their recommendations... Now, what the BLEEP is that??? :Kitten Love:

I have replied again that I find it hard to believe that I am the first or only customer that has requested this information, or that they do not have it readily available. For a commercial supplier to be unwilling or unable to provide proper safety documentation to their customers is unacceptable. Needless to say I won't be bothering them any more, because I will spend my supply dollars elsewhere.

end of rant...

:thumbdown:


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## IrishLass (Jan 2, 2015)

I'm sorry you did not get the answer you hoped for, but actually, their answer to you does not surprise me. From what I understand, IFRA regs are completely voluntary in the USA, i.e., not something suppliers over here must absolutely follow as required by law. Some do, but many others do not.

Looking on their FAQ page on their site, it states that all of their FOs are cosmetic grade and if one is making lotions and bath gel, that one will have to experiment, but that one will most likely end up using between .5% and 1% FO by weight (which is actually a pretty standard rate from my experiences making lotion). If it were me, I would just experiment within those boundaries and not go over 1% of your lotion's weight.

If you absolutely must know the specific IFRA rate, then I would seek out those suppliers here that have chosen to voluntarily follow the IFRA rates and buy from them instead.

IrishLass


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## new12soap (Jan 2, 2015)

I'm usually going to be fine with 1% in lotion, but for perfume there is going to be a big difference in performance between 5% and 15%   and I still don't know what the max safe rate is.

I guess there are some suppliers that don't bother, I have just never run into that before. I usually deal with places that list the info right on the website, and other suppliers have provided it to me on request.

Having been "burned" (both literally and figuratively) twice by soaps that had more than the safe amount of fragrance because they just used the standard guidelines of 5% in soap, yeah I want to know what the rates are   So yes I will only be buying from companies that care about the safety of their customers using their product.

p.s. do these suppliers not ship to Canada? Don't they, like the EU, have much more stringent requirements?


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## maya (Jan 2, 2015)

You might ask for a certificate of analysis and an MSDS and have better luck.


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## bbrown (Jan 2, 2015)

I called them last week to ask about a fragrance and if they carried something similar and before I could even finish the guy on the other end talked over me and said "have no idea."   Just like that.  Not even "I have no idea."  It came across as extremely rude and flippant.  :/

And I just realized my answer helped you none whatsoever as you were talking about perfume and not soap.  Lol.   I'm sorry about that.


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## IrishLass (Jan 2, 2015)

bbrown said:


> IAnd I just realized my answer helped you none whatsoever as you were talking about perfume and not soap. Lol. I'm sorry about that.


 
 LOL Same here. My apologies to you as well new12soap. For some reason my brain didn't 'see' 'perfume' either until just now. That's what I get for reading and posting late at night.

 I like Maya's suggestion of asking for the COA and MSDS instead.


 IrishLass


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## new12soap (Jan 2, 2015)

No worries, guys, thanks for the replies.

bbrown, that kind of response alone is enough to make me take my business elsewhere, the market is too competitive to have to pay for bad service IMO. They have nothing I can't get from another place or live without.

Personally, I think everyone that uses these suppliers should demand accurate safe usage information, and they can either provide it, or perish :-x


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## Susie (Jan 2, 2015)

You vote with your wallet on who should stay in business.  Good service is key in something as competitive as fragrances IMHO.  At the very least, someone could have said, "I don't know, but I will find out and get back to you."  And followed up with info promptly.


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## Aline (Jan 11, 2015)

Was it the owner who replied re IFRA usage rates? If could just be that she needs to hire better customer service - I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water....


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## cmzaha (Jan 11, 2015)

As Irish Lass mentioned the IFRA testing is not mandatory in the US. It is only mandatory for fragrance manufacturers that are members of the IFRA, membership is not a requirement. I personally hope it never becomes mandatory here, we have enough regulations in our daily lives these days


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## Cindy2428 (Jan 12, 2015)

New12soap - Though I love everything about soaping, I covet EO/FO.  I  want them all! I started by buying a few from every vendor I ordered from and then I started to narrow them down with the minimum requirement of having MSDS available. IFRA info was a bonus. Brambleberry is the exception for me because all of the info except specific gravity is available on their website. From the vendors I've researched or bought from, WSS has all of the information available, Lebermuth has MSDS available, Natures Garden has MSDS and IFRA documentation. Saveonscents has IFRA, and MSDS. Hopefully others will chime in with additional vendors


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