# Honey Dots?



## BlackDog (Aug 9, 2015)

Hi all,

I made a batch using honey for the first time this week - a local guy   keeps bees on the property I rent so he swings by occasionally with   fresh honey :smile:

Also my first time using a Pringles can for a  mold.  Fun! Plus I found  my new love, Jalapeno Pringles. But I forgot to  tap after I poured, so  there are tiny air bubbles and the top two bars  have a big hole in the  middle, lol.  My husband said "put a rope through  those bars.  problem  solved" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





ANYWAY,  there are little tiny honey-colored dots in it.  I used NG  Sweet Orange  & Chili FO, which is sort of the same color, but I  think it's the  honey that just didn't get mixed in well.  

I pre-mixed a  tablespoon of honey (1 lb of oils) with about an ounce of  olive oil and  then hand-stirred it in at trace with the FO.  

Is it honey?  And  if so, what should I do in the future to make sure  it's incorporated?   Warm up the honey?  Just stir better?  Any tips?   Photo below:




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## nsmar4211 (Aug 9, 2015)

A couple of my FO tester bars looked like this and there's most certainly not any honey in my mix.... but not that FO...


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## Obsidian (Aug 9, 2015)

It could be the honey or the FO, best way to tell what it is, is to taste it. For honey, I mix it into a little water water then mix it into the oils before adding the lye solution.


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## BlackDog (Aug 9, 2015)

Obsidian, thanks, I didn't even think to taste it!  I'll try mixing it in before the lye next time!


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## Obsidian (Aug 9, 2015)

I wouldn't do that either, it can make the lye really heat up and discolor. Just take out a tablespoon or so of your water, warm it up and mix in your honey. Then blend that into your warm oils with your stick blender.


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## BlackDog (Aug 9, 2015)

Obsidian I'm confused by your second post.  I shouldn't add my honey to the oils before I add the lye?  I thought that is what you said in your first post, or am I reading it wrong?

What I am understanding from the first post was to mix the honey with a bit of water, then mix the honey/water with the warm oils, then add the lye water.  But I should not do that?


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## tbeck3579 (Aug 9, 2015)

I put honey in most of my soaps at trace and I haven't had that problem.  I'm not all that picky about measuring it either.  It's "yep, looks like a tablespoon" as I tip the bottle, but may be more like 2 tablespoons.  A bad habit cooks get into...

An afterthought == at the beekeepers meetings I've heard some beekeepers say they will thicken the honey with things like corn starch -- honey does not always come from the hive thick so they try to make it look like store bought.


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## Obsidian (Aug 9, 2015)

Sorry, I miss understood your post. I thought you were saying you would add the honey to the water then add the lye to the water too. I see now you were saying you'd blend it in the oils before adding the lye solution. Sorry for the confusion


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## BlackDog (Aug 10, 2015)

Obsidian said:


> Sorry, I miss understood your post. I thought you were saying you would add the honey to the water then add the lye to the water too. I see now you were saying you'd blend it in the oils before adding the lye solution. Sorry for the confusion



lol no problem.  Hazards of communicating through the internet!
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## kumudini (Aug 10, 2015)

That's such a beautifully simple soap BD, even the dots add to the beauty. I wish you had posted the other bars with the holes in the middle as well.
I got my self a 2ft section of precut PVC pipe and the end caps from homedepot. I have been planning on a soap for 2 weeks, one where I want to do 2 colors, poured simultaneously side by side. The idea of pouring from a 2 ft height is giving me nightmares though. I had always considered a Pringles can but the problem is, I don't eat them and I don't let my hubby eat them either, lol! May be I should just buy it for the can, could you tell me what's the diameter and height of the can? What was your batch size?

ETA: about the honey, I just squirt some into the oils along with my other additives and SB thoroughly before adding the lye water.


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## kumudini (Aug 10, 2015)

Anyone else who could answer my questions in the above post? Any general tips and tricks to using PVC pipes for molds?


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## TeresaT (Aug 10, 2015)

Vkumudini said:


> Anyone else who could answer my questions in the above post? Any general tips and tricks to using PVC pipes for molds?



I used a PVC mold one time.  I greased that sucker like a pig with mineral oil.  I have a rubber cap on the end that comes off very easily.  I only used one color (a coffee soap with coffee grinds) and it was kind of difficult to unmold.  I had to bang on the sides a bit with a rubber mallet (even though I had put it in the freezer for a few hours) and used a can as a push-up tool.  That said, it was one of my first soaps and I've learned much since then.  I would not soap at full water (or coffee as the case may be).  I would not attempt to unmold the day after I poured it, even though it was rock hard.  I would probably try Vaseline instead of mineral oil, just for kicks and giggles.  I've been meaning to use it again, but haven't really thought about a good recipe to go in there.  My coffee soap was a kitchen soap and it just seemed like a round bar would be a good idea.  I do know there is no way I would attempt to line it.  (How the heck do people line a 2 ft tube?! I have trouble with a stinkin' loaf!)


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## kumudini (Aug 10, 2015)

Thanks T! Well, for the lining, I have a clear plastic shelf liner from Costco, I'm planning on using that and hope that the soap would come out easily enough. But you never know until you try, right! 
On how to line a tube, I think you just have to figure out the circumference of the tube and cut a sheet to that width and 2 ft long, roll it up, put it in there and let it unroll. I'm going to try that now, just the lining part.


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2015)

I use PVC for my shampoo bars. Generally I grease it with Vaseline but I have also lined it with freezer paper. Lining is actually pretty easy, the freezer paper want to curl up once its cut off the main roll. rub some vaseline around in the mold, this will help stick your paper roll to the mold. I go one step further and tape the paper roll so it stays in a tube form.

If you don't line, it a bit trickier to get the soap out. I too use a can or two of vegetables as a push stick and freeze the soap for a hour or so. I have two shorter PVC molds, they hold a little over 2 lbs each and are a easy size to handle.


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## kumudini (Aug 10, 2015)

Here Teresa, done deal! My mold is lined and ready to go. And I hear this lining is reusable.


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## DeeAnna (Aug 10, 2015)

"...at the beekeepers meetings I've heard some beekeepers say they will thicken the honey with things like corn starch -- honey does not always come from the hive thick so they try to make it look like store bought. ..."

Really? Really???? I can't believe it. Where in creation are these folks learning their beekeeping???? 

Their runny honey is just honey that isn't properly cured to the proper moisture content. It simply needs to stay in the hive longer so the bees can dry it out. Or the beekeeper needs to dehydrate it a bit to the proper water %. Once anyone's honey is cured properly, it will flow as slowly as "store boughten" honey ... unless the store bought honey has been messed up too. :sick:

Adding cornstarch ... no way, no how, never, ever should this be done. By adding cornstarch, these people are contaminating their honey with stuff that could mold, since their honey isn't cured enough to begin with. The result is most definitely NOT honey, and I would never buy or eat it.


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## Arthur Dent (Aug 10, 2015)

Vkumudini said:


> Here Teresa, done deal! My mold is lined and ready to go. And I hear this lining is reusable.



Yes!  This looks like the shelf liner that I use in my pvc molds.  Many many uses later they are still in great shape.


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## kumudini (Aug 10, 2015)

Arthur Dent said:


> Yes!  This looks like the shelf liner that I use in my pvc molds.  Many many uses later they are still in great shape.



So, how easy/difficult is it to unmold?


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## Arthur Dent (Aug 10, 2015)

Very easy!  I cut mine a little longer than the mold so I have something to grab onto, I can just pull the log out.  If the bottom of your mold is openable you can easily push it out.  Then the liner just peels right off, though that might vary with the recipe used.


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## Arthur Dent (Aug 10, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> Really? Really???? I can't believe it. Where in creation are these folks learning their beekeeping????



Exactly!  None of us in my part of the world would dream of adulterating our honey in this or any other fashion.  That's just crazy!


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## kumudini (Aug 10, 2015)

Arthur Dent said:


> Very easy!  I cut mine a little longer than the mold so I have something to grab onto, I can just pull the log out.  If the bottom of your mold is openable you can easily push it out.  Then the liner just peels right off, though that might vary with the recipe used.




Thank you! Now I can dream about piles of round soap all over my kitchen .


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## navigator9 (Aug 10, 2015)

The way I learned was to add the honey to the hot lye water, the heat  insures it will melt and become fully incorporated. It does make the lye  water turn an ungodly shade of orange, but when you mix it into the  oils, it goes away. I think your soap looks lovely!


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## IrishLass (Aug 10, 2015)

navigator9 said:


> The way I learned was to add the honey to the hot lye water, the heat insures it will melt and become fully incorporated. It does make the lye water turn an ungodly shade of orange, but when you mix it into the oils, it goes away. I think your soap looks lovely!


 
This is how I do it, too. I learned it from a fellow soaper named Soapbuddy a few years back. I mix it in a little water and then add it to my cooled lye solution. Ever since I started doing it that way, I've ceased to have any problems with weeping honey or honey dots in my soaps made with honey, nor overheating issues. I know many beekeepers do not like the suggestion of adding honey to the lye water, but the way I see it is that the honey is going to react with the lye whether added to the lye solution up front or to the batter at trace, since lye is still _very_ active at trace. 


IrishLass


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## TeresaT (Aug 10, 2015)

Honey:  I saw a video where the soaper zapped it in the microwave for a few seconds to "loosen" it up, so that's what I do and add it at trace (or after the cook in HP).  The tube lining:  brilliant!  It never occurred to me to let it overlap.  I was trying to figure out how they lined the ends up! Major face-palm right there! Lining seems the way to go, especially with something heavy duty that you can reuse (and pull the soap out of the tube with).


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## DeeAnna (Aug 10, 2015)

Oh, if you want to benefit from the goodness in honey then eat it, don't put it in soap!!! I absolutely do not believe any benefit of raw honey -- the enzymes, flavor, etc. -- survive the soap making process, no matter how or when the honey is added. Even the sugars in honey -- fructose and glucose -- react with the lye.

I don't add honey to my soap, but if I did, I'd use my "cooking honey" meaning the stuff that comes out of my wax harvesting process. Cooking honey as sweet as normal honey, but often a little darker from the heating needed to harvest beeswax from comb. Cooking honey is fine in stuff that needs a bit of sweetening -- I'll use a teaspoon or two in chili for example. Cooking honey has lost that heavenly floral-citrus aroma that makes my real honey so wonderful.


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## BlackDog (Aug 10, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> Oh, if you want to benefit from the goodness in honey then eat it, don't put it in soap!!! I absolutely do not believe any benefit of raw honey -- the enzymes, flavor, etc. -- survive the soap making process, no matter how or when the honey is added. Even the sugars in honey -- fructose and glucose -- react with the lye.



Haha!  I read it was a humectant so I thought I'd give it a try.  I get so much since the guy brings it to me!  I love it in tea but I think my dentist would throw a fit if I put it in every cup since I'm a tea addict :shock:


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## DeeAnna (Aug 10, 2015)

Honey is a humectant. But think about it! There is a LOT of glycerin in a handcrafted soap -- about 10% to 11% by weight based on weight of oils. Glycerin is also a good humectant and honey at maybe a tablespoon ppo is just not going to compare to glycerin at 10% ppo. You can make a better argument for honey adding to the soap's ability to make more lather.

Add honey to your soap if you like -- there's nothing wrong with the idea -- but just don't get caught up in the foo-foo dust about it being magical stuff in soap. The beneficial properties of honey are better gained by eating moderate amounts of it and appreciating its wonderful aroma and flavor or by using it as a medical treatment for damaged skin.


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## BlackDog (Aug 10, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> Honey is a humectant. But think about it! There is a LOT of glycerin in a handcrafted soap -- about 10% to 11% by weight based on weight of oils. Glycerin is also a good humectant and honey at maybe a tablespoon ppo is just not going to compare to glycerin at 10% ppo. You can make a better argument for honey adding to the soap's ability to make more lather.



Thanks for the info DeeAnna!  I'm a music teacher, which is about as far from "chemist" as you can get, lol.  And as a (very) new soap maker, I have a lot to learn.


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