# Florida B & B sellers?



## Genny (Apr 9, 2013)

I was asked this morning by someone living in Florida on how hard it is to get the right permits & if all the fees were worth it to sell cosmetics.

Since I'm in Wisconsin & we don't have the Cosmetic Regulations that Florida has I'm not much help.  But I told her that I'd ask around & see how Florida businesses do it.

So, what she'd like to know is:
1)Was it hard to pass your site inspection?

2)Are the $200 biennial fee & $20 product registration fee worth it, especially when you add on insurance?

3)Where do you actually make your products since you can't do it in your home?


----------



## Genny (Apr 9, 2013)

Bumping this.


----------



## Koshka (Apr 9, 2013)

Oh, God! I'm not sure where to start...

1)Was it hard to pass your site inspection?

At first, I called the township and told them that I was renting a particular location as a space for my business where I will be manufacturing soap and stuff. They had to run it by zoning, to see if the location is suitable for such work. (make sure it's sewer and not septic). Then I had to deal with department of health, which is another pain in the a$$, because they expect you to have a setup that meets general manufacturing standards (btw, that goes for everyone who's making cosmetics in US). I've been in business 6+ months and so far I've only had 1 health inspection and no FDA inspections. 

2)Are the $200 biennial fee & $20 product registration fee worth it, especially when you add on insurance?

I can't answer this question since I'm only starting to look into cosmetics manufacturing. The only thing I can say is that it will be worth the money if you're pulling 10+k per month in orders.

3)Where do you actually make your products since you can't do it in your home? 

I make it at the warehouse. Although it is required by industry standards, it is my personal preference to have a designated squeaky clean area where everything is alphabetized, arranged by height and color coded to my (OCD) preferences. I've just started experimenting with lotions and such and it's crucial to have a lab-like environment since bacteria loves to get into everything. (Also, think about customers using your product, why would you want to jeopardize quality?) Plus, I've gotten some heavy duty soap making equipment that won't fit anywhere else but the warehouse.

Aside from all that, I know soooo many companies that do everything from home. Rarely there's an issue with department of health or FDA. I've asked around before I made a decision to get my warehouse and everyone had similar answers: Oh, I just opened a company and we make our lotions at home. Grrrr, to be honest, that drove me insane. 
I've understood, that if I wanted to have a successful business, I had to invest a lot of money. So, tell your friend that it all depends on what she wants. If she's OK with being a hobbyist-type of a manufacturer, and sell at local craft fairs, I highly doubt she'll run into any sort of trouble operating from home. But if she wants to go big, there's a lot more complications along the way.

I hope that helped a bit.

Cheers!


----------



## Genny (Apr 10, 2013)

Thanks Koshka.  
I'll pass on the info to her.  She wants to make sure she's on the up & up with her business if she decides to go for it, so she knows she can't do it from home.


----------



## Lindy (Apr 11, 2013)

Wow!  Florida is tough!  Koshka good for you for doing it all on the up and up.

I made my soaps in the basement which is clean but I prefer to make my lotions, creams etc in my main kitchen on the upper floor as I don't have anything in storage around me up here and I'm just more comfortable with the space for those kinds of products.


----------



## forget-me-not (Apr 11, 2013)

Due to the Florida regs, I have had to go directly to suppliers and have my lotions and scrubs etc made for me. I consulted heavily with suppliers and it took a (long!) while to get it to my liking, almost 15 months. I only have a small store, and I still enjoy making stuff for my personal use, but knew there were no shortcuts. I get so many people walk through my doors - who sell bath & body here in Florida via Etsy, Craft Fairs, Farmers Markets etc - who tell me they make their products in their kitchens. I wouldn't dare - it would be just my 'luck' to get caught!


----------



## Lindy (Apr 11, 2013)

Hello and welcome forget-me-not!


----------



## heatherglen (Apr 11, 2013)

Wow! I didn't realize how tough other states can be!! So far, Kansas is pretty laid back when it comes to these types of regulations. Of course, wherever we make our products, the kitchen or a pristine lab, we all wouldn't be in this business if we weren't concerned about the safety of products we make/use!


----------



## Lindy (Apr 11, 2013)

Do these regs apply to soapmaking as well?


----------



## Koshka (Apr 11, 2013)

Unless you're claiming that the soap has other properties besides "cleansing" (i.e. moisturizing (a big no no), cures skin problems) those regs don't apply. 



Lindy said:


> Do these regs apply to soapmaking as well?


----------



## Lindy (Apr 12, 2013)

Excellent.  There is a Canadian soapmaker moving to Florida and I let her know that there are different regs in Florida.  Didn't know how that applied to soap....


----------



## SunshineGirl (May 1, 2013)

the rule do apply to the fact that you cant make soap at all in your house no matter how u sell it.


----------



## new12soap (May 1, 2013)

The state of Florida does not allow for the manufacture of cosmetics in any residence. Soap (and ONLY true soap, no syndets, and no cosmetic or drug claims) is the exception and can be made at home. AFAIK Florida is the only state that has such incredibly strict requirements.

Koshka and forget-me-not, thank you so much for sharing your experiences and more importantly for doing it right!


----------



## SunshineGirl (May 1, 2013)

news12soap thanks for letting me no all of my research was kind of unclear and i even emailed the auther of the soap and labeling book and they she was like even true soap cant be made in the home. I am a florida resident so i was really trying to get a clear answer/


----------



## new12soap (May 1, 2013)

Okay, I was just on the phone with the Florida Department of Professional Regulation. As long as soap meets the FDA requirements as only a soap it is exempt from the cosmetics licensing requirements.  As for the residence portion, the very helpful lady on the phone directed me to the website http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/Chapter499/All which says in part

"499.012 Permit application requirements.—
(1)(a) A permit issued pursuant to this part may be issued only to a natural person who is at least 18 years of age or to an applicant that is not a natural person if each person who, directly or indirectly, manages, controls, or oversees the operation of that applicant is at least 18 years of age.
(b) *An establishment that is a place of residence may not receive a permit and may not operate under this part*." (I added the bold lettering to the quote)

As for what constitutes a cosmetic and requires a permit, that can be found on the product registration application itself, here http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/ddc/documents/ProductRegistrationCosmetics.pdf on the last page. ANYTHING on that list requires a permit and registration to manufacture (the soaps that are listed there refer to soaps that do not meet the FDA standard; "FDA interprets the term "soap" to apply only when the bulk of the nonvolatile matter in the product consists of an alkali salt of fatty acids and the product's detergent properties are due to the alkali-fatty acid compounds, and the product is labeled, sold, and represented solely as soap"

I could not help myself and did say that I believe Florida is the only place with such strict requirements and does not allow a hobby business to operate out of the residence. Even though she was polite about it I did get the company line about how other states should be more concerned about protecting their consumers... mmmmmmmkay.  Anyway I hope this info helps.


----------



## jcandleattic (May 1, 2013)

new12soap said:


> Okay, I was just on the phone with the Florida Department of Professional Regulation. As long as soap meets the FDA requirements as only a soap it is exempt from the cosmetics licensing requirements.  As for the residence portion, the very helpful lady on the phone directed me to the website http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2012/Chapter499/All which says in part
> 
> "499.012 Permit application requirements.—
> (1)(a) A permit issued pursuant to this part may be issued only to a natural person who is at least 18 years of age or to an applicant that is not a natural person if each person who, directly or indirectly, manages, controls, or oversees the operation of that applicant is at least 18 years of age.
> ...



Thanks for the info new12soap! I don't live in FL but if I did these rules make it pretty clear what can can't be done. 
Pretty tough state!!


----------



## SunshineGirl (May 1, 2013)

I and all other FL residents thank you for that extra research. I think it is a shame we cant make soap in our home. i understand what they are saying but if someone wanted to do harm thery can do it in there little shop also. And it cost so much for permits and such how many people are jus doing it the wrong way. to me thats not porcteting the consumers. Im sure there are plenty of soapers selling and making the soap out of there homes cause they cant afford  the costs. I no i can sell soap if it was made in a diff  state so i may just  go to GA  I have family there it cheaper and i can sell in Ga and here.


----------



## new12soap (May 1, 2013)

SunshineGirl said:


> I and all other FL residents thank you for that extra research. I think it is a shame we cant make soap in our home. i understand what they are saying but if someone wanted to do harm thery can do it in there little shop also. And it cost so much for permits and such how many people are jus doing it the wrong way. to me thats not porcteting the consumers. Im sure there are plenty of soapers selling and making the soap out of there homes cause they cant afford  the costs. I no i can sell soap if it was made in a diff  state so i may just  go to GA  I have family there it cheaper and i can sell in Ga and here.


 
Sunshine girl, I think you may have misunderstood, you CAN make soap at home and sell it, you CANNOT make synthetic detergents or any cosmetics (lotions, bath bombs, hair care, lip balm, perfume, anything _other than plain soap_) in your home. You must have an inspected and licensed commercial facility.


----------



## SunshineGirl (May 1, 2013)

oh ok! i thought it said that you cant get a permit if you made the soap in your home. Ok thanks i really misunderstoopd that


----------



## SunshineGirl (May 1, 2013)

I looked on the last page it says bath soap and detergents isnt that soap?


----------



## VanessaP (May 1, 2013)

SunshineGirl said:


> I looked on the last page it says bath soap and detergents isnt that soap?



You seem to be missing the distinction of marketing your soap as soap and ONLY soap, and marketing it as a moisturizing or beauty bar soap.

Saying your soap does anything OTHER than clean your skin automatically sets it as a cosmetic (or a drug, which is another big no-no) and therefore you can no longer make it at home and market it as such.

If you sell it as soap, and only soap, and only say that your soap cleans the skin, which all soap cleans, then you can make and sell soap from your home.


----------



## SunshineGirl (May 1, 2013)

Venssea thanks so much. i was so worried about that. I was getting a little stressed. its sucks i cant make baths bombs and teas i now those are cosmetic. so i can still add whatever i want to it jus as long as i lable correctly and say its just soap.


----------



## new12soap (May 1, 2013)

As long as your soap meets the FDA definition of soap and only soap. Many MP formulas do NOT meet that criteria as they contain synthetic detergents, it really depends both on what the soap is made of (just oils and lye are a soap) AND how it is labeled and marketed.


----------

