# Biodiesel Glycerin Soap (BDG) Examples



## knicelyr (Aug 14, 2009)

I thought I would start a thread showing what can be done with the Biodiesel Glycerin.

Our biodiesel glycerin is already "soap" it's about 40% soap and 60% glycerin. And has what I like to call "saponifiable elements". You can think of it as a "bad" batch of soap. One that is under saponified, unbalanced and maybe too rich in glycerin.

By fully saponifying the biodiesel glycerin and the addition of a few ingredients we can have bars that are hard as any store bought or traditional bars and lather just as well as non-biodiesel soaps. 

We can also combat the tendency bars have to sweat by using a technique I call "glycerin negation". This allows us to keep the soap glycerin rich but just under the sweating threshold.

We can also make liquids that are just as thick and lathering as any store bought liquid soap or shampoo.

Right now I am working on a laundry soap that dissolves as quickly as you would expect for a laundry soap.

All of these examples are at least 80% biodiesel glycerin.

Think about how much you spend on raw materials. Using the biodiesel glycerin can really cut down on material costs. Heck... It's almost free.  There are so many biodieselers out there wanting to have it taken off their hands.

One clarification about the biodiesel glycerin - Many assume we are using biodiesel fuel itself in making soap. We are not. The process of making biodiesel leaves a soapy glycerin mix. We decant the biodiesel and use only the glycerin layer in making our soap.  This layer can loosely be compared to melt and pour glycerin. Except it is, in most cases, brown in color. It will be golden in color if the oil has never been used for cooking.

Actually... One method of making soap commercially involves esterification. Basically a soap company will esterify (make biodiesel) from the oil to separate the glycerin. Their glycerin is then refined with distillation and sold as another product. The esters (Biodiesel) are then converted into soaps. These soaps being void of glycerin.


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## knicelyr (Aug 14, 2009)

Here are a few photos;


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## knicelyr (Aug 14, 2009)

Here are a few lathering pictures of my latest lavender.


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## knicelyr (Aug 14, 2009)

I invite others making soap from Biodiesel Glycerin to follow suit and post some pictures on this thread.

Great stuff!

Happy Soaping!


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2009)

Im sorry, it sounds so complicated. Where do you find the bio stuff to make soap with?


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## knicelyr (Aug 14, 2009)

bconrade884 said:
			
		

> Im sorry, it sounds so complicated. Where do you find the bio stuff to make soap with?



William, actually it's as easy or even easier to make soap from biodiesel glycerin.  Think of it as just another whole oil that has a SAP number.  When you mix the ingredients together you mix your lye and water and make soap just like you are used to. CP, HP, GM.

The biodiesel glycerin can be used as the bulk of the recipe or as a small portion of the oils.  It can even be used for the normal glycerin that is added to soaps in some soap making recipes. It really is sooo easy to add to your arsenal of soap making ingredients.

It should be fairly easy to obtain, Biodiesel is everywhere... I mean absolutely everywhere.  You should be able to easily find someone in your area.   You could check the biodiesel forum for people in your area http://www.biodieseldiscussion.com/.  And I would be happy to ship you some depending on where you are located.


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## knicelyr (Aug 16, 2009)

This weekends batch with added transparency.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2009)

Teach us how to do it, Rick and sell us bio-stuff.


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## knicelyr (Aug 16, 2009)

That's the beauty -- you can get as much of the biodiesel glycerin as you want for free.  The rest of the ingredients you probably already have in your soap making materials.

It can be up to 80% of the final bar soap and up to almost 100% of the liquid soap.


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## dagmar88 (Aug 17, 2009)

Hey Knicelyr,
I learned using a high % of glycerine pulls moist out of the skin, instead of moisturizing  :? How come you don't have any drying effects from this soap?


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## knicelyr (Aug 17, 2009)

That can be true of glycerin. 

But the amount of glycerin in our biodiesel glycerin is more on the order of melt and pour soap. Or similar to the glycerin content in transparent soap like is described in Catharine Failor's book "Making Transparent Soap".

We also perform "glycerin negation" when needed. Basically adding ingredients that reduce the effect of glycerin on the bars. By doing this we can stop the sweating that can be an issue with glycerin rich soaps. Biodiesel or "Melt and Pour" soap can have sweating issues.

Calling it "biodiesel glycerin" is really sort of a misnomer... In reality it is really already a soap.  It just needs some work... Sort of like a bad batch of soap.

I have had only positive comments from anyone who has used the soap, their first comment usually relates to how nice their skin feels. Many rave of how well it does to clean their face, blackheads and such.

I would be happy to send you some if  you would like to try it out for yourself.


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## dagmar88 (Aug 17, 2009)

That's so sweet of you; but shipping costs to the Netherlands would be a little bit too outragious   
Thanks for the answer, now I understand. Very interesting!


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## oldragbagger (Aug 17, 2009)

It's really very attractive soap.  If it's nice on the skin and the materials are free or cheap, I can't see the downside.  Have you considered doing a tutorial?


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## knicelyr (Aug 17, 2009)

Yes,
I am in the process of getting a video together.

The soap is so great. I really hope that some non-biodiesel people start getting interested. There is so much biodiesel glycerin out there. And it's free for the taking. The biodiesel people will be happy to give it to you.

I use 80% - 85% for bars and almost 100% for liquid.

Imagine... 80% of your product obtained for free!


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## LizRNBSN (Aug 18, 2009)

Is this stuff even safe to make soap out of, when I hear diesel, its not something I would ever think I would make soap out of? Where do you get this stuff?


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## knicelyr (Aug 18, 2009)

*Re: Biodiesel Glycerin Soap Examples*

Yes Biodiesel Glycerin is safe -- I referenced this issue on the very first post of this thread.  



			
				knicelyr said:
			
		

> Our biodiesel glycerin is already "soap" it's about 40% soap and 60% glycerin. And has what I like to call "saponifiable elements". You can think of it as a "bad" batch of soap. One that is under saponified, unbalanced and maybe too rich in glycerin.
> ...
> One clarification about the biodiesel glycerin - *Many assume we are using biodiesel fuel itself in making soap. We are not.* The process of making biodiesel leaves a soapy glycerin mix. We decant the biodiesel and use only the glycerin layer in making our soap.  This layer can loosely be compared to melt and pour glycerin. Except it is, in most cases, brown in color. It will be golden in color if the oil has never been used for cooking.



The only similarity petrol diesel and biodiesel have are that they both burn in a diesel engine.  The biodiesel fuel is non toxic and biodegradable -- if you wanted to do so you could drink it. I wouldn't recommend it only because of its flavor - Ask me how I know...

However many commercial soaps have petrol products in them one of which is propylene glycol -- glycerin's cheaper cousin. 

The process to make biodiesel is very similar to making soap. Soap and glycerin are produced in the process. This soap and glycerin is separated from the biodiesel and this is what we use to make soap.

The soaps and glycerin are identical to those made when using oils and lye to make soap.

There is nothing toxic contained in the biodiesel glycerin provided that the methanol has been removed.  This is properly done by heating the glycerin up to 275*F - 350*F. The methanol is captured for use in the biodiesel process.

Lye is used to process any oil or glycerides that happen to be there.

In the end it is Soap, Glycerin and Water. Same ingredients that are contained in the soap you are used to making.

*Biodiesel glycerin contains no petrol fuel, is non-toxic (when the methanol is properly eliminated), is biodegradable, and contains only soap and glycerin once fully saponified.*
*Biodiesel itself is NOT used to make soap, however if it were it would also be non-toxic and biodegradable.*


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## tincanac (Aug 18, 2009)

Thanks for posting all that info - it was very interesting to read.   Your soap pics are cool as well, I like the colour and the look!


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## oldragbagger (Aug 18, 2009)

I think what some of the readers here are missing is that *BIO*diesel, if I am understanding it correctly, is not a petroleum product at all.  It is diesel made from vegetable oils (which is what we use in soap already) so it's not really so different.  Am I correct?


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## knicelyr (Aug 18, 2009)

bagger,
You are exactly correct.  Totally made from vegetable oils.

In fact you could make a small batch in your kitchen in about 10 minutes with the ingredients you use to make soap. You will need some alcohol.

I think that the word *diesel* is scaring people off.  I wish we could call it something else. It's not even the biodiesel itself. Biodiesel is just an adjective describing where the glycerin/soap came from.

Maybe call it "Extracted Glycerin"?  LOL


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## Qetesh (Aug 18, 2009)

*i am interested*

iam a newbie to soap making but this sounds very interesting. and environmentally friendly as well. it makes a very nice looking bar of soap as well


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## knicelyr (Aug 19, 2009)

*Re: i am interested*



			
				Qetesh said:
			
		

> iam a newbie to soap making but this sounds very interesting. and environmentally friendly as well. it makes a very nice looking bar of soap as well



Thanks qetesh!

It's environmentally friendly on two fronts! 

One -  it's all natural and biodegradable as soap.

Two - it takes a product that is a problem for the biodiesel community and puts it to good use as soap products.


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## Saltysteele (Aug 19, 2009)

Rick, where in that forum can I find someone in my locale who has this glycerin?  I'd give it a whirl


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## knicelyr (Aug 19, 2009)

Salty,

I'm in SE Michigan... I would give you some but it looks like you are on the other side of the state.  I know there are several people in the biodiesel forum that are in your area.

Make a post on this part of the biodiesel forum...
This is where glycerin related usage and questions are located.

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/ ... /610109192

I really urge soap makers to consider using this glycerin. Even at 10% - 20% of a recipe could really save you some cash on your product.

If you do receive glycerin from a biodieseler be sure that they have removed the methanol or you are prepared to do so. Glycerin with the methanol will in most cases will be liquid unless in the winter time. In the winter time is appears more solid. You can not always smell the methanol if some remains.  Be sure you know the methanol has been removed before you make it into soap. If you get the glycerin from a biodieseler it would be smart to heat it to at least 275*F - 350*F to ensure that it's ready for use in your soaps.


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## freesoul (Nov 24, 2009)

*Re: Biodiesel Glycerin Soap Examples*



			
				knicelyr said:
			
		

> There is nothing toxic contained in the biodiesel glycerin.



Rick I think you need to qualify this and state that it is safe once you remove the excess methanol leftover from the biodiesel process.  We distill our glycerin up to pot temps of 260F in order to ensure the methanol is removed and the glycerin is considered non-toxic. This temp comes from data provided by samples that Dickinson College in PA had tested by the state DEP.

DO NOT use glycerin that comes straight from a biodiesel producer.  The way you can quickly tell is that if it still has some methanol in it, it will be semi liquid. Once you remove the methanol it turns sold and the harder it is the more methanol has been removed.


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## donniej (Nov 24, 2009)

BioDiesel glycerin reacted with KOH does not become solid.  

Making sure the methanol is gone is easy, just warm it up and bubble air through it with an aquarium bubbler... outside, of course.


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## carebear (Nov 24, 2009)

shouldn't you be capturing the methanol?


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## Tabitha (Nov 25, 2009)

washtyme,

Your ears must have been burning. My husband was laying in the bathtub last night hollering "were out of bio soap."

Off to make a purchase...


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## donniej (Nov 25, 2009)

carebear said:
			
		

> shouldn't you be capturing the methanol?



In an ideal world, yes.  Sometimes I get BD glycerin from a local guy who does recover the methanol but there's still some left in it.  It's not worth the hassle to recover such a small amount so I just bubble it out.


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## freesoul (Nov 25, 2009)

carebear said:
			
		

> shouldn't you be capturing the methanol?



yes, we reuse it in the next batch also.  Waste not want not.


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## freesoul (Nov 25, 2009)

donniej said:
			
		

> BioDiesel glycerin reacted with KOH does not become solid.
> 
> Making sure the methanol is gone is easy, just warm it up and bubble air through it with an aquarium bubbler... outside, of course.



when you take the methanol out it gets solid enough to clog the pipe coming from our still.  Not as hard as the NAOH reacted stuff though. You have to get the pot temp up to 260F


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## freesoul (Nov 25, 2009)

Tabitha said:
			
		

> washtyme,
> 
> Your ears must have been burning. My husband was laying in the bathtub last night hollering "were out of bio soap."
> 
> Off to make a purchase...



Thanks 

We're starting to get it in some local stores also, very exciting!  We made a decision going forward that we would do all our bar soaps with added shea butter and discontinue olive oil.


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## Tabitha (Nov 25, 2009)

We buy the bars added shea. Hubby likes the vanilla best.


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## Half Caper Farm (Nov 25, 2009)

LizRNBSN said:
			
		

> Is this stuff even safe to make soap out of, when I hear diesel, its not something I would ever think I would make soap out of? Where do you get this stuff?



Biodiesel is fuel made from edible oils, often used cooking oils from restaurants - it's not "diesel" which is fractionated petroleum oil.     Perfectly safe and harmless.

Did you know that Mr. Diesel (yes, that was his name, although I don't remember his first name  :roll: ) designed the original engine to run on vegetable oil?  It was only when the petroleum industry grew too big for its britches that they were switched to fossil fuel.

That soap looks interesting - very nice!  I may have to look around for some biodiesel enthusiasts!


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## freesoul (Nov 25, 2009)

Half Caper Farm said:
			
		

> LizRNBSN said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The term 'biodiesel' is popular slang for methyl esters which can burn in any diesel engine without modification, its also a replacement for home heating oil. It is biodegradable and less toxic than table sugar. And smells soo much better than petroleum when it it burns 

PS- none of the smell comes through the glycerin, our unscented bars do not smell like french fries or chinese food 

Actually petroleum came into use because it was cheaper, Rudolf Diesel was designing an engine for use in agrarian societies thinking they would be able to sustainably produce their own fuel. Petroleum fuels war, which is why we are proud to power our car and heat our home with sustainable fuel. The awesome soap is a bonus!


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## knicelyr (Nov 25, 2009)

Freesoul thanks for clarifying about the methanol.
Yes the methanol needs to be removed from the glycerin. And it should be captured for re-use.

We heat our glycerin to 300*F - 350*F before we make it into soap.

We are getting fairly popular locally -- 2 local grocery chains and counting!


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## knicelyr (Nov 26, 2009)

I'm happy to see the revival of this thread... Been dead for several months!

BDG is really great stuff.

You can simply finish saponifying it and its a nice softer bar of soap.

You can use it as a glycerin additive to your soaps.

You can use it as a base for a recipe with whole oils and/or fatty acids.

You can add some TD and mica and get some color.

If there is anyone interested I would be happy to send you a 12 bar log of saponified glycerin to try it out. Use it to make soap or just use it as is as soap.

It's really good stuff too... 5oz Bars can be made for anywhere from $0.02 - $0.20 at the most if you add any whole oil or fatty acids. Yes you read that correctly...  2 Cents - 20 Cents for a 5oz bar!!!

You can make liquid soap from both NaOH and KOH glycerin. Again the cost to make your soap is next to nothing.

So you can see by using it for part or all of your recipe you can really save some money.


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## gekko62 (Nov 29, 2009)

So to remove the methanol I need to heat the bdg to 275-350F. Does that temp need to be maintained for some time? Donnie how does the bubbling help?  I joined an Aussie BD forum and put out a request(was warned--be careful what you wish for hahaha) and have received loads of advice(really friendly bunch those bioD folk) and can pick some bdg up locally but have to demethanol myself. My inner mad scientist is happy as a clam but I _really _don't want to make the headlines,yanno,soaplab explodes,new inner city bypass tunnel created(ha,with our traffic woes thats not necessarily a bad thing!) :twisted: Plus how do I determine sap? :?


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## freesoul (Nov 30, 2009)

gekko62 said:
			
		

> So to remove the methanol I need to heat the bdg to 275-350F. Does that temp need to be maintained for some time? Donnie how does the bubbling help?  I joined an Aussie BD forum and put out a request(was warned--be careful what you wish for hahaha) and have received loads of advice(really friendly bunch those bioD folk) and can pick some bdg up locally but have to demethanol myself. My inner mad scientist is happy as a clam but I _really _don't want to make the headlines,yanno,soaplab explodes,new inner city bypass tunnel created(ha,with our traffic woes thats not necessarily a bad thing!) :twisted: Plus how do I determine sap? :?



Lisa, you don't have to maintain the temp you have to reach it.  When you first start heating the glycerin the methanol will start to evaporate at just over 148F which is the approximate boiling point of methanol. As more is evaporated the temp will keep climbing.  I urge you not to do it in an open pot and put the methanol in the atmosphere, you should use a still and the thing you need to be very careful about is that the heating element should never be exposed to air above the level of the glycerin as this air is loaded with methanol vapors and prime for an explosion.  Also as you remove the methanol the liquid level will drop keep that in mind. 

SAP is largely a guess, we use 300g of NAOH per 10 liters of glycerin/shea butter and let it cure for 3-4 weeks.  When we cut the soap out of the molds I have to wear nitrile gloves so my hands don't get red but after the curing its totally neutralized and I don't have any issues with it at all.  It depends on what feedstock the oil is from.

Also remember KOH processed biodiesel for liquid soap using KOH, and NAOH processed biodiesel for bar soap using NAOH. 

Good luck!


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## Bubbles Galore (Nov 30, 2009)

gekko62 said:
			
		

> My inner mad scientist is happy as a clam but I _really _don't want to make the headlines,yanno,soaplab explodes,new inner city bypass tunnel created(ha,with our traffic woes thats not necessarily a bad thing!) :twisted: Plus how do I determine sap? :?



A bloke my husband used to work with was on the news when he blew up his shed and part of his house making illegal BD.  :shock:


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## donniej (Nov 30, 2009)

gekko62 said:
			
		

> Donnie how does the bubbling help?



Heat alone will not boil off one liquid mixed with another, you need some agitation.  If you heat it to between 150 - 200*F and bubble air through it, the methanol will boil/evaporate off.  These vapors are flamable and dangerous to breath.  This must be done outside and away from any ignition source.  

I used to use an electric heating element (like a hot water heater element) and an aquarium bubbler.


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## Cinder (Feb 20, 2014)

I have an opportunity to get some glycerin from someone who makes biodiesel.  What are some important questions to ask of him in order to make sure that the glycerin does not contain any harmful ingredients?  Is there some type of testing I should do to the glycerin in order to acertain if it is safe?


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## Saponista (Feb 21, 2014)

Dependent upon the process used to create the biodiesel, there may be methanol left in the glycerine. You must heat it up in order to evaporate residual methanol as it is toxic. It is also likely to contain loads of food impurities and other 'scuzz', which is going to give you a pretty ugly looking and perhaps smelling bar of soap. I'm not sure I would use this glycerine, I would use biodiesel glycerine if I bought it from a company who had purified it to an acceptable level, but not straight from the reactor.


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