# Catty Competitors



## idlehands (Jul 15, 2014)

Okay guys, I need some advice. A local competitor of mine - who started out buying from me and only making candles - has been leaving catty remarks on a new toner type of product that I have just recently developed. I personally do not follow her on this social media site because she has a history with copying my products to sell as her own. I didn't say anything to her about it, I just simply unfollowed her. Low and behold, she has just made a toner (just witch hazel and tea tree in a fancy bottle). It's not like I could have see it to copy her because I do not follow her. Anyways, she left a snarky remark on my product - that was much more well formulated - insinuating that I somehow ripped her off? I don't know how to deal with this immaturity online. I have never once confronted this woman about the fact that she didn't even start making skin care products until she meet me or that she has blatantly ripped off one of my original face mask recipes. Guys, I really need you on this one. Have you ever run into a problem like this? Help.


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## Dorymae (Jul 15, 2014)

I would leave a message saying, "........ I am really sorry you feel that way however my toner contains much different ingredients.  If I wanted to sell tea tree scented witch hazel I would not have labelled it as toner."

Ok so that is if I was feeling a bit mean.

Other options include ignoring it completely unless your customers usually follow her which I certainly hope is not the case.  Or reduce the above message to stop before the last line.

Sorry this has happened to you, sometimes people are really crappy - the good news is that she is crappy to you because she knows your products are better than hers.


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## kylie_au (Jul 16, 2014)

Dorymae said:


> I would leave a message saying, "........ I am really sorry you feel that way however my toner contains much different ingredients.  If I wanted to sell tea tree scented witch hazel I would not have labelled it as toner."
> 
> Ok so that is if I was feeling a bit mean.
> 
> ...



I loved the first part of your answer, made me laugh.

Another option maybe, is to add a " product in focus" post with  description of your product, why ppl should be using it, whats great about it etc -( im sure you get my drift) then have a couple of sentences about unscrupulous ppl who take 2 basic ingredients and call it toner or some such wording, explaining that such dishonesty is not something hard working aussies appreciate - explaining to always check and compare ingredient info, etc etc

I like to think of it as subtle polite *****iness :grin:


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jul 16, 2014)

I would post a response - people will see it and of course it will influence them. Even it is something along the lines of "I'm sorry you feel this way. As I don't keep track of your products and developments, this is the first I have heard about your product. Having looked in more detail, though, our products do differ so I feel that the way you infer that I in some way copied you is not justified."

And write it while smiling sweetly, just to help


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## Susie (Jul 16, 2014)

I would respond with an offer to have both products reviewed by an independent, objective third party.(I would try the local cosmetology school for a teacher to review it, or a local day spa.)  Preferably with results posted on both websites at the same time with a signed agreement(that is also posted on both websites) that the results stay posted for one full year.  That should end the discussion.  After all, if your product is better, then you get free advertising on her site for a whole year.  And if she refuses, then everyone sees that also.

You will never, ever get done being defensive about anything.  You must stand for your products without defensiveness or pointing fingers.  Few false allegations can withstand the spotlight of truth.  You just need to set up the spotlight.


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## shunt2011 (Jul 16, 2014)

I tend to just ignore what other say.  I know I carry great products and they certainly speak for themselves.   However, if someone was posting unture statements online I would make a response similiar to what others have stated.  Your products are two very different items and that you stand being your product 100%.   I had a vendor at a market this past weekend spewing all kinds of bull about her 100% natural soap with no fragrance/color etc.  I actually heard her tell a customer that it would help lighten dark spot etc.    I just laughed because I have all colors/scents except for a couple.  You can't fix stupid or mis-informed sellers.


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## lsg (Jul 16, 2014)

Just delete her comments.  If she continues the insinuations, send her an email stating that her comments border on libel, "(a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation;. a written defamation)."


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## navigator9 (Jul 16, 2014)

It's always difficult when you work really hard to formulate a good product and you see someone throw together an inferior one and start selling it. It's usually a waste of energy to try to convince them that they're wrong, to make them change their unscrupulous business practices, or to make them go away. Even if you did manage to do any of those things, there will always be another to take their place.....like dandelions on the lawn. 

There are instances, of course, when these people can't be ignored, and you need to fight back. But most often, it's wiser to just let their poor business practices catch up with them eventually, and watch their business fail. If you can't even come up with your own recipes for products, what else can't you do? This is usually the type of person who's motivated by the idea of making fast money, and not the love of what they do. They copy other people's products because they have no real interest in what they make, they're just doing it for a profit. How can you take pride in something that you had no real part in creating? 

It doesn't always happen as quickly as we might like, but when you're motivated by profit and not passion, it will catch up with you. Running your own business is not an easy thing, as we know, and if you don't really love it, chances are, you won't last very long.


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## idlehands (Jul 16, 2014)

You guys are so great. I was born and raised in the south with that "you get more flies with honey" and "kill them with kindness" mentality. I suppose what really got me was the fact that see blatantly copied a product of mine that she told me she was going to "buy when her next pay check comes in". Well, I guess that pay check came in and she found a supplier to attempt to under cut me. I have been making skincare products for about two years now. Sure, I still have a lot to learn, but for me it is my living. I live and breathe this stuff. I suppose I found it offensive? My toner is willow bark and rose infused. It is a beautiful shade of brown/red from the natural colors of the herbs and due to some studying - naturally foams! This is a product I'm really proud of and took some time to develop. And she had the nerve to insinuate that I got the idea from her? A spray bottle filled with witch hazel and a few drops of tea tree? I'm not down playing the effectiveness of her product. I've used both ingredients individually and I'm sure they do their job. I'm just saying that anyone can put that together. In this day and age - people are way more informed about natural skin care. You can buy witch hazel at your local drug store and everyone knows the healing power of tea tree. It's just a simple product. However, I'm sure it is marketable to people. I suppose my frustrations lie in her audacity. She follows no guidelines for labeling, makes medical claims, and does not list her ingredients on her products in a proper manner. She started out as a local fan of mine - started her skincare with a blatant copy of one of my products and then has the nerve to even think I ripped her off? If I were her - I'd tread lightly with someone I knew I was trying to undercut locally. Now, I'm just spitting venom. I am a huge supporter other soap makers and skincare producer! At craft shows, I visit every booth - buying from each and complimenting them on whatever I see that really catches my eye. I love innovation and personality - and there is plenty of it in this line of work. I love supporting other businesses. I would have totally supported her and her efforts if it hadn't been done the way she did it. I suppose I would be best just to pick my battles and let this one slide. If she thinks she owns herbal healing methods then she has another thing coming. We are a dime a dozen. However, the ones who do it well with love, personality, and a excellent product shine through every time! I suppose I really just wanted to vent a little. It's definitely a frustrating situation.


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## judymoody (Jul 16, 2014)

Just to be clear, she is leaving snarky comments on your site?  If so, I would delete and move on.  If it's on her site, you could do one of two things.  I like EG's suggestion - remark that your products seem quite different using sweet and diplomatic language.  Perhaps even offer to give her a complimentary sample (thereby implying that she has never even TRIED your product) while making you look generous at the same time.  

If you wanted to escalate, you could let her know that she should desist or she'll be hearing from your lawyer.   Personally, I wouldn't do this.  But it's fun to think about her reaction.


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## Moody Glenn (Jul 16, 2014)

Hello! For me - it depends upon my mood.  But, in the long run, *always take the high road*. No matter if the comments are on her site or yours state that it is her opinion and value constructive criticism BUT then go on the offensive by challenging her to a duel of products. Let her and all clients (hers but especially yours) know that you highly value your product and reputation and offer to let all the clients determine which product is better. Challenger her in front of all clients. Chances are she will "soil" her pants when she reads it. When someone from another business tries to discredit another business it means they are desperate and let's face it - they are cowardly. You, my friend, are not. You are proud of your business and of it's products so ATTACK (but in a civilized, professional, calm manner.) Have some fun watching her sweat. She will drop the subject in a heartbeat.


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## HoneyLady (Jul 17, 2014)

This all makes me wonder . . .

 Is there an entity anywhere in the world with whom we can register a formula in exact percentages / brand names of supplies, etc.?

 I know a *patent* gets involved in technologies, and won't apply to us.  But is there some sort of trademark / intellectual property law that applies?

 If we can register formulations, then you can claim fraud, illegal duplication, etc.  I notice the FO sites are careful to list things as being a "type" of scent.  I.e., "Sandy Pink Bermuda", a YC type, etc.  

 I tend to suspect NOT, since there are lots of dupes out there.

 I like the idea of offering a sample.  If you've had yours tested by a third party, I'd certainly play that up.  Keep killing her with kindness.  A few people will fall for it, but if she keeps bringing up your name, people will wonder _why_, and check you out.  In the end, she'll do herself in.

 I love the American South! It's the best place in the world to insult people and do it with a smile, and a gentle pat on the back.  "Bless her heart, she just keeps trying so hard to compete with you, and imitate your products."
 :twisted: 8) :clap:

 ~HoneyLady~


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## Dorymae (Jul 17, 2014)

No you can't register a formula.  You can claim a secret recipe but it requires certain measures be taken. Even then unless you can prove that someone took your specific recipe there is nothing you can do about it.  If someone happens to guess your recipe you have no recourse.

Yes the south is funny that way... you can say anything you like as long as it is followed or preceded with "bless her heart".  Everyone knows it's an insult but it's not considered one!!


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## pamielynn (Jul 18, 2014)

If you've got a website or even a FB page where you've shown your toner, you can prove you had your first - but that never gives the satisfaction that you'd want. I agree with Navigator9. She's in it for the cash only and will tire of it. It is frustrating, especially when you come across somebody who can "market" better than you or has no problem telling the people what they want to hear and brainwashing them as you're trying to have integrity. And for me, "let it go" is not one of my skills. 

And, as unsatisfactory as it is - just doing your own thing and trying to be the best at it really IS the best way to handle it. But if she is snarking you on her social media, I would definitely demand that she stop. Any lawyer can draw you up a "cease and desist" for a couple of bucks.


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## Shalisk (Jul 28, 2014)

Alternatively, I could writea product review of her product....I used to make review websites....I dont know somthing along the lines of 'her toner did indeed tone, my skin has never been a darker shade of red then after I broke out in hives, I am allergic to witch hazel..."


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## WAsoaps (Oct 29, 2014)

First, block her on Facebook (if this is on FB).

If you have your own hosted website and her email address, try this: Send her an email with a link to a random page you made that is not linked anywhere on your site. (ie. www.yourwebsite.com/upandcomingproducts) and ask her for her opinion. Butter her up. Say, I know you've purchased from me before and I'd really appreciate your opinion on some products I'm working on.
She clicks on the link and from the admin panel you can see all the IPs that have landed on that page. BLOCK her IP. (make sure not to block your own) Hopefully she's not on a proxy.
Now how will she stalk you? Because clearly she's stalking you.
Wait a while and see what happens.

(The above suggestion is not complicated at all. I could do this is less than 10 minutes, email and all. lol)

And on the webpage you can do whatever you want.

Maybe something humorous but get's the point across, like scan a page from the dictionary with a relevant word circled. Like unimaginative or thief 
or
a picture of your toner *>* picture of her "toner"

hehehe ohhh my *tears*


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## DeeAnna (Oct 29, 2014)

When my wonderful stepson was tempted to get into a verbal peeing match with a grade-school bully, he talked to me about what was going on. I asked him these questions: Do you honestly think you have a very good chance of changing his point of view or attitude? Do you think you have a very good chance of hearing him finally admit to you, "Yes, you are right and I am wrong"?

He admitted the answer was "no" to both. I agreed he was probably right and gave him the advice I'm going to share here: Let all this go as best you can, move on to more productive things, and work on staying positive. Focus on being successful and happy in YOUR life, rather than worrying about what others are doing with theirs.

There are always going to be mean spirited, unhappy people; there are always going to be people jealous of others' success; and there are always going to be copycats. And we ALL, as humans, are going to fall into those pitfalls at one time or another in our lives, whether we realize it or not. It is humbling to realize this truth, and that useful dose of humility can help me let go of my attachment to my anger and frustration.


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## Stacy (Oct 29, 2014)

I agree 100% with DeeAnna. I also try to hold the belief in karma and that honesty and good intention comes through.  It's hard sometimes, but it makes my world a better place if nothing else.

The other thing to remember when playing with blocking IP addresses on your site is that, unless you know what you're doing it CAN screw up. Your process is quite sound, WAsoaps, but accidents do happen and if something goes wrong you've accidentally (and unknowingly) block legitimate customers and you might not know how to fix it. In addition depending on where she's surfing from she may be on a mobile network or have a dynamic IP in which case you've possibly risked something and achieved nothing.

It would be nice to block troublesome people from our lives sometimes.  Maybe google will work on that next  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/member.php?u=12552


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## lenarenee (Oct 29, 2014)

You've worked and researched to create an amazing and original product, then some cheap "fly by nighter" shows up 
and tries to convince the world hers is better. She did that by attacking your product. Of course  you want to fight back! We all would!

Here's the thing; you've already won. And she knows it. She doesn't have the creativity, determination, or dedication to go through the painstaking process you did to invent something new and wonderful. So she cheats by dumping stuff in a bottle and insulting you.

Juvenile behavior at its worst .

And she knows it.

Sometimes the most effective thing you can do is take your ball and go home. Game over. If you must engage her, honesty, sincerity and integrity are tools that always win the battle in the end.

The truth always comes out, your product will stand on its own.

You've gotten a lot of good advice here. Mull it over. And congrats on developing such an intriguing product; I bet you'll be creating  more in the future. That kind of innovation is what would attract me to your shop!


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## JustBeachy (Oct 29, 2014)

It's never a good thing to be confrontational in a situation like this. A calm but accurate response makes you come across as professional and puts the aggressor in a negative light. There are way too many "internet tough guys", who will argue and confront back and forth until both sides look like children on a third grade playground. Most of the time, a non response will work, as it just allows the aggressor to look like they're "off the wall".  Sometimes a response is warranted, yet it needs to be a controlled response. Without seeing the actual comments, a suggestion such as,  I stand behind all my products and am quite sure they are all original  formula's developed and tested by me. Please feel free to email me and I would be happy to discuss this with you. 

Maybe post a link on here so we could get a clearer picture of the comments. From what you described in your latest post, if she's that unprofessional in her marketing, labeling etc. chances are the public sees right through it already. The public is not always as uniformed as some would like to believe. 

Hope it all works out for you.


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## WAsoaps (Oct 29, 2014)

Stacey,I was joking around in case you thought I was being SERIOUS lol


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## Stacy (Oct 29, 2014)

Apologies, apparently I left my sarcasm filter off today!


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## WAsoaps (Oct 29, 2014)

NP... I would have been pretty shocked if she took my advice! haha


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