# Dental soap



## nframe

After reading about dental soap, I decided to have a go and made some.  I used 85% extra virgin olive oil and 15% cocoa butter.  Also added peppermint and fennel EOs.  It all went well and I poured the soap into an ice-cube silicone mould (photo attached).  It does not really smell like soap and you can smell the peppermint quite well.  The thing now is that I am impatient to try it.  Will it matter if I do not stick to the 4 week cure time (or more since there is a lot of OO)?


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## dagmar88

nframe said:


> Will it matter if I do not stick to the 4 week cure time (or more since there is a lot of OO)?




Absolutely. The longer the cure, the better the taste.


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## judymoody

I tried mine right away!  But mine went through a full hot gel (I used cinnamon leaf!)   If yours is ungelled, I'd wait at least a few days.

It's not the greatest taste sensation in the world but it sure works well.


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## nframe

In that case, I think I'll give it a week!  I assume that shortening the cure time cannot harm me.:???:  I hope not.


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## neeners

oh my!  dental soap?!?!?  I didn't even knew that existed!


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## kdaniels8811

Seriously?  You clean your teeth with it???


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## DeeAnna

Tooth soap -- yep, it works. Just don't use coconut oil in your recipe -- it doesn't taste very good as soap for teeth. Go for lots of creamy lather, not so much bubbly and that will be good too. 

A poster in another recent thread (was it Obsidian?? can't remember -- sorry!) talked about adding sweeteners (stevia, sorbitol, etc.) to tooth soap to make the taste nicer -- that's certainly something to consider if you make tooth soap. I didn't find just mint EO to be enough added flavor for my preference. It wasn't bad, just bland.


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## cmzaha

I still think regular toothpaste is still the best. Sometimes the chemists do know what they are doing... I have had 50k worth of dental work with a lot of surgery to go with it and I think it best to follow what my dentist suggests! Which is toothpaste and a rinse, once in awhile, with diluted peroxide. Ask you dentist, teeth are very expensive to replace and gum surgery is miserable


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## Ancel

We use our regular charcoal soap for tooth soap. It works very well, doesn't have much of any flavor, not over sudsy and leaves our mouths feeling clean and healthy. 


Sent from my iPad using Soap Making


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## ewenique

I used my own tooth soap for over a year, but it didn't remove stains, so back to regular toothpaste for me!


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## Lindy

I've been making and selling tooth soap for a few years now and it is quite successful.  To keep my teeth white I add baking soda to my brush a couple of times a week.  

I've always had to use Sensidyne because I have super sensitive teeth, not anymore and not within a week of changing over.  Here is the theory behind it.

Regular toothpaste leaves a coating behind which does not allow your teeth to "breathe" so to speak.  They can't absorb minerals and calcium from your food because they are coated so you end up with pin holes that cause sensitivity as well as allowing plaque & scaling to occur as it has something to grab on to.  When you use tooth soap you teeth are left without anything coating them which allows them to breathe, to absorb minerals like they are meant to as well as to give less for plaque and scaling to grab hold of.  

The human body is an amazing thing and will heal itself when given half a chance.  A pharmacist here in town was telling me about a dentist friend who relayed the following story to him.



> I had a patient with a small cavity so we booked an appointment for her to come in for me to fill it.  Since it was so small and not causing any problems we booked it about a month out.  When she came back the cavity was gone!  Totally disappeared!  I asked her what she had done to get this to occur and she told me that she hadn't done anything unusual.  So I asked her what she brushed her teeth with.  She told me she was using tooth soap from a local soapmaker and she loved how her teeth felt.  I can't say the tooth soap is the reason, but I've never seen anything like this happen before so I might look into this.  Do you know who is making it?



Of course the pharmacist did and referred him to me.  He now uses it himself.  My own dentist is amazed because I don't need my teeth cleaned, no plaque and scaling and no cavities either.  It works for me and for my customers, your mileage may vary.


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## judymoody

I also find that tooth soap leaves my teeth much cleaner with much less plaque and buildup - like I just came from a professional dental cleaning.

I find it difficult to tolerate whatever foaming agent is in commercial toothpaste.  It makes me gag.

I add xylitol to my tooth soap which is supposed to be good for your teeth as well as adding a bit of sweetness.

90% OO, 10% cocoa butter.


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## Lindy

I add honey...


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## houseofwool

judymoody said:


> I also find that tooth soap leaves my teeth much cleaner with much less plaque and buildup - like I just came from a professional dental cleaning.
> 
> I find it difficult to tolerate whatever foaming agent is in commercial toothpaste.  It makes me gag.
> 
> I add xylitol to my tooth soap which is supposed to be good for your teeth as well as adding a bit of sweetness.
> 
> 90% OO, 10% cocoa butter.



Do you superfat?


Sent from my iPhone using Soap Making


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## nframe

houseofwool said:


> Do you superfat?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Soap Making



I did but at only 1%.


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## judymoody

houseofwool said:


> Do you superfat?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Soap Making



Yes, at 3%


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## Yooper

I'm going to try this.  Without any sweetener at all, I imagine it's "soapy" tasting and I have visions of my mother washing my mouth out with soap.  :Kitten Love:

So, I want to try a tiny batch (one bar, say) and use 90% OO and 10% cocoa butter.  A tiny bit of peppermint and/or cinnamon EOs?  Would that work to give it a bit of aroma and perhaps flavor?  And how much would be a good amount to use?  I have no idea here!

I really want to do this, as we've been buying natural toothpastes, but even those have ingredients I don't want to use.  I'd love any help or tips on this!


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## alaskazimm

I've used 100% OO soap sliver for brushing now for about 2 months (used Pink Grapefruit EO) and I don't get a soapy taste. In fact there isn't much of a taste at all to me.
On the other hand, high CO soaps taste terrible to me when doing the zap test. So I'm pretty sure (and have read elsewhere this is the case) that it's the CO that gives the bad taste we all remember from our childhood.


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## nframe

*Update*

I have been using this soap for a least a month now and I am used to it.  In fact, it does not taste of soap at all.  It is a fairly bland taste and I don't think it needs any sweetener.  I got used to it very easily.


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## neeners

wow!  about the health for teeth.  now I definitely want to try this!  so many soaps to try....so little time and so little space for curing!


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## MingoFan

Feeling sort of dumb here, but if you use 90% OO and 10% CO and superfat between 1%-3%, what exactly makes it "tooth soap" as opposed to just CP soap? Or can any CP soap be used as tooth soap? Since I've never heard of this before, I'm just trying to understand  Thanks!


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## nframe

MingoFan said:


> Feeling sort of dumb here, but if you use 90% OO and 10% CO and superfat between 1%-3%, what exactly makes it "tooth soap" as opposed to just CP soap? Or can any CP soap be used as tooth soap? Since I've never heard of this before, I'm just trying to understand  Thanks!



You are right.  I suppose you could call it "CP soap" because that's what it is.  The only thing is that it does not taste of soap as such and therefore it feels OK to use in the mouth.  From what I read, it is the coconut oil that gives it a very soapy taste.  I did not use any CO in my dental soap.  I read about the benefits of using this type of soap and thought that I would give it a try.


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## WAsoaps

Whenever I use straight baking soda my teeth come out ultra bright white. It's unbelievable the difference in just one brush! (baking soda is a light abrasive)
Try it!


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## Yooper

After thinking about this, I grabbed a small bar of baby soap that is over a year old.  It's 95% OO, 5% castor oil, no fragrance or additives.

It was ok, and my teeth felt really clean after using it but my husband didn't love it.  He felt he needed something minty to feel his "mouth wake up".  He did use the bar in the shower after that, and said he loved it for his hair and body!  Go figure.

So I went ahead and did a 90% OO/ 10% Cocoa butter soap, 3% superfat (just to avoid accidentally being lye heavy) and added peppermint EO "to smell".  After saponification, it doesn't smell much of mint at all, though.  It's fairly firm today, and I might try a smidgen even though it's only two days old, just to see what I think.  

I think I"ll do a baking soda brushing every third day or so, and keep using my waterpik twice per day.


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## Skatergirl46

I have been following this post for a while, and today I decided to try it. I have always hated the strong mint flavor of most tooth paste. I got out a "shampoo bar" that I made without any CO. I was surprised that it didn't taste like I expected it to. I guess I was expecting the "soap" taste from when I was a kid. Anyway, it didn't have any nastiness about it at all. It was pretty tasteless. My teeth feel like I have just left the dentist! I can't believe how clean they feel. There was no aftertaste at all. I think I need to make a plain batch just for teeth.


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## Ancel

We've been using our regular charcoal soap for tooth cleaning and we love it, but then I thought I'd make a special tooth soap, so I upped the amount of coconut oil as it's really good for the teeth and gums in general, and put in a little neem oil and added tea tree and peppermint eos. Then I read more of this thread  so the tooth soap is ready, and it does taste soapy, but not too bad. Maybe I've just got used to the neutral/slightly soapy taste of the charcoal soap and this one is just a step further along the soapy scale. 

So my question is, if coconut oil is so good for the mouth, do enough of the qualities survive saponification to make its use worthwhile? I know we talk a lot about  botanical properties surviving or not, but what about the oils themselves? Should I go for oils that are good in themselves for cleaning teeth and helping gums, or for the taste?

Thanks! Great thread.


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## Little_Irish_Hippie

Wow, I had never thought of using actual soap for my teeth, I'm going to have to try it! My teeth are probably not in best condition and I do brush twice a day, it should be fun to give the soap a go. Perhaps 90% OO and 10% shea butter... as that's what I have. Is anyone aware of oils other than coconut that might taste yuck?


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## Yooper

I did a 90% OO 10% cocoa butter as described, with peppermint EOs.  

The soap is young, but I tried it several times.

The good:  mouth feels clean, doesn't taste bad at all, and no soapy taste
The not-so-good:  the peppermint EO didn't survive the saponification process and so my husband says he "needs" mint flavor or something.

The next idea is HP, and adding flavor extracts when pouring.  I had a mint extract that made great mint chocolate brownies, and that may work well.?!?  Don't know.  

But I have three small bars of the present tooth soap to use up first, unless I rebatch and try peppermint flavor extract now.


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## Obsidian

I really like a salt bar with tea tree oil but the flavor of the coconut oil is so foul, I had to stop using it. Thinking about making a salt bar with no coconut, I know it won't foam but it should still clean.


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## Lindy

Yooper - Try Peppermint at 3% or buy some lip balm flavours....


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## seven

okay, i got really excited reading this thread, but i'm on holiday so i can't soap for a while. to appease my excitement, i decided to run to the nearest supermarket and grab myself a baking soda.

off i went to my house afterwards and started brushing my teeth. lo and behold, i read the box and it said: baking powder!

i have since run back to the supermarket and get the "proper" baking equipment


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## dudeitsashley

Lindy said:


> Yooper - Try Peppermint at 3% or buy some lip balm flavours....


Will the lip balm flavors last through saponification?


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## CaraCara

If you HP it then the flavour and scent will be added at the end. You can even add stevia to sweeten it a bit.  Not sure if the taste would survive saponification.


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## nebetmiw

You know what is funny.  I have been using one of my CO salt bars for tooth soap for a over year now.  No bad flavor at all.  It was over a year old when I started using it and a large piece to boot.  It has 40% CO in it with lard and almond oil plus salt.  No FO at all.  Do not even taste it.  I use to use Plax before I brushed but do not anymore.


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## Lin

Lip balm flavor oils aren't actual flavor, if you tasted the lip balm with your tongue it wouldn't have a taste. They are just lip safe fragrance oils and the scent mimics taste (which happens in real eating/tasting because so much of taste is actually scent.) You can sweeten a lip balm flavor oil to improve actual taste if the lips are licked.


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## girlishcharm2004

Would this work if I made it with KOH?  I think a liquid soap would be easier to use than a bar.  How do you use a dental bar?  Bite a chunk off?  I'm still confused about how this works!


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## Lindy

girlishcharm2004 said:


> Would this work if I made it with KOH?  I think a liquid soap would be easier to use than a bar.  How do you use a dental bar?  Bite a chunk off?  I'm still confused about how this works!



You rub your wet tooth brush over the soap and then brush your teeth.


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## jade-15

Lindy said:


> You rub your wet tooth brush over the soap and then brush your teeth.



Do you have a seperate block of soap for each person then, so you're not all sharing your toothbrush?
Or do you not worry about it? (Maybe I am overthinking it?)


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## dudeitsashley

So I just whipped up a batch yesterday using the 90% olive oil and the 10% cocoa butter with a superfat of 3%. My thought process is that I can grate up a bar and mix it with baking soda to get the whitening action. If I end up liking the dental soap I want to try adding xylitol to the next batch because I read that it denies plaque bacteria, which can't be a bad thing.


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## Rayan

Soap for cleaning tooth!! Haven't listened about if before. Wonder how it will be used to clean teeth, with help of brush? is there any special advantage to use dental soap in spite of toothpaste??


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## girlishcharm2004

I'm _very _intrigued especially if it works better than commercial toothpaste!  Actually, we stopped using commercial toothpaste about a year ago because my husband kept getting so many cavities (sounds counter-intuitive, doesn't it?).  We use only baking soda now and he hasn't had a cavity since.  I don't feel like my mouth gets clean enough with only baking soda and a saline rinse, though.  I'm looking for more -- I hope this fits the bill!


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## Neve

So I have to ask, is it safe to use peppermint oil? NDA states that the EOs are for external use only. I have a 100ml bottle of peppermint supreme.

Also, this whole idea of cavities actually regenerating confuses the hell out of me, because I always thought that enamel couldn't regenerate, and my husband insists this is fact. So how can a cavity magically heal up (for whoever it was that posted that this happened)?

Still I MAY try this, although the idea kinda grosses me out. Hell my home made deodorant works much better than the store bought stuff and I wish I had done it years sooner.


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## girlishcharm2004

It's amazing that cavities CAN heal.  When bacteria eats sugar, it creates an acidic environment which wears away at the enamel.  Using baking soda or soap which has a higher pH will at least neutralized the acid and minimize the damage if not get rid of the bad-breath-causing bacteria.  It gives your mouth a chance to heal.  Also, not feeding the bacteria lots of sugary foods (i.e. candy, soda, etc.) will also help minimize the acidity.

Dr. Bronner's claims that their liquid soap can be used for brushing teeth.  One drop of that stuff on my toothbrush sent me heaving into the toilet.  My mouth didn't even feel clean (granted, barely even brushed!).  Knowing that it's the coconut oil that gives it that terrible taste encourages me to try again, but this time make my own!  I just checked the ingredients and Dr. Bronner's DOES have coconut oil in the version I tried.  It doesn't sound like the Bronner's even use their own soap for teeth brushing...


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## nebetmiw

Obsidian said:


> I really like a salt bar with tea tree oil but the flavor of the coconut oil is so foul, I had to stop using it. Thinking about making a salt bar with no coconut, I know it won't foam but it should still clean.




Most likely the Tea tree oil (which should Not be used for internal use) is more the problem in taste here.  It is a very strong EO.

For everyone Info there are alot of thread on tooth soap.  Most need to age a year for use to get rid of flavor of soap.  They have been around longer than toothpaste which is a new invention.


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## Lin

peppermint essential oil is safe to ingest if its therapeutic grade. Problem is anyone can call theirs therapeutic grade even if it isn't. So you have to know the signs to look for quality essential oils. One big one in this case is if it says it cannot be ingested/not for internal use its not therapeutic grade. 

I use peppermint essential oil for nausea. I either put it in a bit of water or dilute it with carrier oil and put some under my tongue if I'm too nauseous to drink the bit of water.


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## seven

girlishcharm2004 said:


> It's amazing that cavities CAN heal.  When bacteria eats sugar, it creates an acidic environment which wears away at the enamel.  Using baking soda or soap which has a higher pH will at least neutralized the acid and minimize the damage if not get rid of the bad-breath-causing bacteria.  It gives your mouth a chance to heal.  Also, not feeding the bacteria lots of sugary foods (i.e. candy, soda, etc.) will also help minimize the acidity.



this sounds really promising. i'm waiting for my tooth soap to cure, cant wait to try it. added some xylitol, a dash of baking soda, and a few drops of peppermint oil.


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## kryse13

so if you were to make a 90% OO and 10% cocoa butter, super fat 1-3% Could you HP it and use it sooner?  Also, I know clove oil is use for tooth pain.  Could that be incorporated into this soap?  Could you also incorporate Baking Soda into a batch of HP tooth soap?

For me my sensitivity is caused by my 'not flossing' attitude and the tooth where it meets the gum leaves the nerve open for pain when I do floss.  

I really would like to give this a try.  so my formulating of a recipe is starting to look like this

90% OO
10% Cocoa butter
1% superfat

peppermint EO 3% PPO
Xylitol (have to research how much)

maybe add Baking Soda and clove oil?


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## Lin

I'm getting interested in trying this, I was going to try a homemade tooth 'paste' recipe thats supposed to be remineralizing. I'll probably do that first still. I'm curious about the possibility of remineralizing and also wanting to avoid the harsher surfactants and abrasives in most toothpastes. I have a connective tissue disorder and so my gums are weaker than normal and tear or split easily. Its not unsual to bleed when I brush my teeth, and if I floss too frequently it causes bleeding as well. I get incredibly frustrated with going to the dentist and the hygenist telling me I need to floss more often so my gums are stronger. No, it doesn't work that way for me! And I've had a lot of cavities and enamel loss from vomiting due to health issues as well. I've had dentists ask me if I drink too much soda, and I very rarely drink soda! Anyway, I'm hoping a gentler toothpaste could improve my dental health and not be so harsh to my mouth.. I currently use sensitive teeth toothpaste, but maybe with something better my teeth wouldn't be so sensitive!


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## dudeitsashley

kryse13 said:


> so if you were to make a 90% OO and 10% cocoa butter, super fat 1-3% Could you HP it and use it sooner?  Also, I know clove oil is use for tooth pain.  Could that be incorporated into this soap?  Could you also incorporate Baking Soda into a batch of HP tooth soap?
> 
> For me my sensitivity is caused by my 'not flossing' attitude and the tooth where it meets the gum leaves the nerve open for pain when I do floss.
> 
> I really would like to give this a try.  so my formulating of a recipe is starting to look like this
> 
> 90% OO
> 10% Cocoa butter
> 1% superfat
> 
> peppermint EO 3% PPO
> Xylitol (have to research how much)
> 
> maybe add Baking Soda and clove oil?


I was also thinking about using clove and baking soda. Please keep us updated on how your batch turns out.


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## girlishcharm2004

Lin said:


> I currently use sensitive teeth toothpaste, but maybe with something better my teeth wouldn't be so sensitive!



I was surprised where Sensodyne falls in the abrasive category.  If your toothpaste is too abrasive, it'll make it difficult for your teeth to heal!  I know a lot of people who brush really hard with whitening toothpaste to make their teeth white, but the opposite is true.  Full enamel is whiter than the yellow pulp underneath (which is more visible from thin enamel).


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## Lin

Mine isn't sensodyne, I can't remember what brand off the top of my head but sensodyne is too expensive!


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## kryse13

Medication can also affect the saliva in your mouth (so my dentist has said) and tried to give me a special paste thing to use once a week.


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## Lin

yup, dehydration reduces saliva and causes cavities plus many meds have dry mouth as a side effect.


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## Yooper

kryse13 said:


> so if you were to make a 90% OO and 10% cocoa butter, super fat 1-3% Could you HP it and use it sooner?  Also, I know clove oil is use for tooth pain.  Could that be incorporated into this soap?  Could you also incorporate Baking Soda into a batch of HP tooth soap?
> 
> For me my sensitivity is caused by my 'not flossing' attitude and the tooth where it meets the gum leaves the nerve open for pain when I do floss.
> 
> I really would like to give this a try.  so my formulating of a recipe is starting to look like this
> 
> 90% OO
> 10% Cocoa butter
> 1% superfat
> 
> peppermint EO 3% PPO
> Xylitol (have to research how much)
> 
> maybe add Baking Soda and clove oil?



Maybe HP could be faster than the CP I did- but I was using it in a couple of days.  Since it doesn't have to get rock hard, and I did discount the water, I didn't find that it was an issue using it a couple of days old.  

I don't have a sweet tooth, so I don't care about sweetening it but I will use more peppermint EO next time.  

One thing really interesting that I recently heard is that cocoa (pure cocoa) remineralizes teeth.  I wonder if a pepperment/cocoa added tooth soap would be healing as well as not objectionable in flavor.

The one I'm using has basically no flavor at all, so it's not bad but it's not "minty" like a commercial minty toothpaste.  It doesn't taste soapy either.  It's just bland.

One thing I have done for a while is use a Waterpik at least once per day, usually twice, and my dentist commented back in July how wonderful my mouth looks.  I haven't had a cavity since childhood.   He commented in July that my gums looked especially good, and asked what was different.  I told him then about the waterpik, and had been using it for a couple of weeks at that time. 

I've combined this tooth soap, brushing twice a day and using the waterpick now, and I go back to the dentist for my 6 month cleaning/check up and I'll try to remember to report back on the results.


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## Neve

What is a Waterpick? Is that a toothpick?

I am going to start with small steps and try baking soda  I don't have any CO free year old soap anyway.


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## Lin

OOoooo I want a waterpik! Also last summer my dog ate my sonicare toothbrush. I'm really upset about that still. But there's just no way I can afford to replace it, I paid 80 for it back in 2005. So $1 toothbrushes for me now... 


A waterpik is sort of like a water flosser, so to speak. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_irrigator Its really flossing, and flossing correctly, that has more to do with gum disease than brushing due to bacteria thats under the gum line. I'm also curious at trying a bass method brush and brushing, especially since they're affordable brushes. My dad has a waterpik and sonicare, when I lose my sonicare charging base he gave me an extra one. Too bad he doesn't have an extra sonicare brush lol. I've also gotten the heads from him before since they're much cheaper to buy in bulk packs. 

Yooper, did you state your recipe earlier in the thread? If you didn't can you give it? If you did, I plan to go back and write down the recipes suggested. I'm starting to think I'll HP a tooth soap to try next time I stay at my bfs house. He just got a crock pot for soaping. I'm thinking add some sweetener (xylitol if I can find it cheap enough locally, maybe stevia if I can't... I think that would be fine in tooth soap?) and cinnamon after the cook. Cinnamon is good for teeth as well. Ceylon cinnamon is especially good because of the sweeter flavor and lack of the ingredient (name slips me at the moment) that can act as a blood thinner in large amounts. I believe you pretty much have to eat large amounts of cinnamon regularly for it to reach high enough levels, and even then if you don't have issues where that would be a problem its fine. 

I didn't have a single cavity as a kid... Didn't get my first cavities until I was 21, and then I had 7! Though after talking to some other dentists and other people I think the dentist may have taken advantage of me and it wasn't really that bad. One of my roommates had a similar situation where out of nowhere they were told they had 6 cavities. But instead of going back to have them filled, she went to another dentist who said she only had 2. So it seems what is considered a cavity and what needs filling can change from dentist to dentist! But I do have issues with enamel wear and tooth chipping as a result of health problems. Luckily all the chipping has been on teeth that don't show when you smile! I haven't had any cavities filled since those 7, which also made me suspicious since my health is worse now plus I don't think I had the chipping yet at 21. But I also haven't seen a dentist in a few years now, I was 25 I think last time I saw one. Its not intentional its really just because I have so many Drs and Dr appointments I kinda forget to deal with it! It always seems of less importance. 

Funny how when I first started reading this thread I thought EWWW NO WAY, and now I want to try it


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## judymoody

The first time I made tooth soap I HPed it and used it the next day.  It is 90% OO, 10% CB, 3% SF, xylitol (1 T per 1 lb batch) with orange and cinnamon leaf (food safe) EOs.  I don't think you need to wait a year.

The stuff lasts forever.  A small 1 inch square chunk will last months.


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## cm4bleenmb

This is too funny. I just made a fresh batch of my own (supposedly) remineralizing toothpaste on Friday and while I was mixing it up, I was thinking, "I wonder if you could make a soap that would work for teeth . . ." (No worries, there's no chance I will become addicted to soap making like the forums warn you about. LOL)

I use CO, powdered calcium carbonate, baking soda, salt, Xylitol, and EOs for flavor--a smidge of Thieves and lots of sweet fennel, tastes like black licorice. YUM. I also make a sea salt and Xylitol rinse with peppermint and oregano EOs-very little oregano, it's strong stuff. I add about two drops to 16 oz of water. I have always had good teeth but since I've been doing this, my dentist is even happier with my check ups.

I may just have to try pouring a little of a batch off into a small container and dumping the dry stuff I want to try into that. Then if it seizes when I mix it, who cares? It's already in the mold! And if the additives don't work and the soap won't set up, I'm only out one little bar.


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## neeners

I haven't been making any soap for a while due to the fact that our stash is really large, but the itch has gotten to me so I declared that this Saturday, I will be making tooth soap.  time to go buy some nice EOs!


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## nframe

*Update*

I have just been to see the dentist and want to report what she said.  She told me that my teeth were no better and no worse than six months ago when I last saw her.  However, she said that it is important to use toothpaste because it contains fluoride and that protects the root of the teeth.  I told her that I read that fluoride was bad for you and she said that it is if you ingest it.  There is only a small amount in toothpaste.  So she recommended that I use my soap in the morning and the toothpaste in the evening without rinsing my mouth so that the fluoride can work.

I thought that I should pass on this information.


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## Lin

There is a LOT of debate about flouride, so I would say its a personal decision.


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## PYPY

Your dental soap looks very nice. In the past I have shaved and then sprinkle unscented soap on my toothbrush but cant get use to the taste of soap in my mouth, I know it is better but bad habits of using toothpaste die hard. Maybe next time I will scent with peppermint oil so it will be more toothpaste scent like.


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## nframe

PYPY said:


> Your dental soap looks very nice. In the past I have shaved and then sprinkle unscented soap on my toothbrush but cant get use to the taste of soap in my mouth, I know it is better but bad habits of using toothpaste die hard. Maybe next time I will scent with peppermint oil so it will be more toothpaste scent like.



I understand that the bad taste of soap comes from coconut oil.  I haven't used any in this soap and the taste is not bad at all, quite bland.  I gave my recipe on the first post: it was 85% extra virgin olive oil and 15% cocoa butter, plus peppermint and fennel EOs.


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## cm4bleenmb

I quit having the fluoride treatments about two years ago and my dentist didn't bat an eyelash. I have been making my own toothpaste for almost a year and when I told him about it, he thought it was pretty cool. He has never given me any grief about the lack of fluoride and is always complimentary at my appointments.
In the interest of fairness I have to say that I haven't noticed any difference in my health without the fluoride.


----------



## houseofwool

cm4bleenmb said:


> I quit having the fluoride treatments about two years ago and my dentist didn't bat an eyelash. I have been making my own toothpaste for almost a year and when I told him about it, he thought it was pretty cool. He has never given me any grief about the lack of fluoride and is always complimentary at my appointments.
> In the interest of fairness I have to say that I haven't noticed any difference in my health without the fluoride.



Is your water fluoridated?


----------



## seven

after only 10 days curing, i did a tongue test, no zap, and took a bite with me to the basin. hmmm, it was bland alright. i can smell the peppermint, but no taste whatsoever. it was just, blah.

next time, i will put more xylitol and more peppermint. i am used to the minty taste of commercial tooth paste. i want to at least taste it a bit with the tooth soap.


----------



## neeners

Seven, how much mint did you put in?  I bought some wintergreen eo today and plan to make some tooth soap this weekend.  I'll have .5 oz for 1 lb of soap.  is that what you had?


----------



## seven

neeners, i admit, i didn't remember exactly how much i used  it was pretty small amount as i was using a pipette. my batch was a tiny one (200 grams oils) and if memory serves me right, i was using one shot of pipette (not full amount, about 2ml). my peppermint eo was a cheap one, and so i was a bit wary of using the normal amount as i would to normal cp soap. 

but yeah, i reckon i should use a bit more. i am still getting used to the 'blah' taste of the tooth soap..


----------



## stargazer44

I have been contemplating tooth soap.... this has made me start thinking about it again!


----------



## Tienne

Does anyone know if neem oil _tastes_ bad? How much should I put in if I wanted to use some? Would 5% be too much?

(I don't mind the smell of Neem. I don't find it all that offensive. To me the absolute worst smelling soap ingredient EVER is patchouli. Yuck!)


----------



## newbie

Neeners, you should look into wintergreen EO. It can be quite toxic. I would be very cautious about using it in any quantity for use in the mouth. I don't know if the old wintergreen gum used real wintergreen EO, but there are lots of cautions out there about it.

http://www.organicfacts.net/health-benefits/essential-oils/wintergreen-essential-oil.html


----------



## Yooper

cm4bleenmb said:


> I quit having the fluoride treatments about two years ago and my dentist didn't bat an eyelash. I have been making my own toothpaste for almost a year and when I told him about it, he thought it was pretty cool. He has never given me any grief about the lack of fluoride and is always complimentary at my appointments.
> In the interest of fairness I have to say that I haven't noticed any difference in my health without the fluoride.



I gave up fluoride about 4 years ago.  My dentists also stopped routine fluoride treatments about that time.  Our water is not fluoridated, and there is no natural fluoride in our water.  

I haven't had a cavity or any issues at all, and haven't had any cavities or fillings or even more than a routine cleaning in about 30 years.  I think I had something about 28 years ago, maybe a filling?, but nothing memorable.  

My dental health is perfect, and I go in for cleanings every 6 months.  This last time, I was told I can go a year because I"m "not building up" (I assume plaque?) and my gums are perfect.  I will be 50 in a couple of months.

I think the health concerns with fluoride are valid, and will not use fluoridated toothpaste or water, or rinses or such.  I think that this is one of those things that everyone should research and decide about, especially if you have an old-school type of dentist.


----------



## cm4bleenmb

No, my water is not fluoridated, we have our own well. It takes very little time to clean my teeth and I freely admit to not brushing and flossing as regularly as I should. As I understand it, the real culprit in tooth decay is the bacteria, get rid of the bacteria and you don't get plaque. So, one of my goals in my oral-care products was something that would reduce the bacteria. Oregano oil is very anti-bacterial but can weaken dental bond products so I only use one drop in my rinse and cut it out of my paste. Thieves oil is a good blend, it can be expensive but you really only want a tiny bit--just a drop or two in 16 oz of rinse but if you don't like the cinnamon/clove spice thing, it's not for you. The beauty thing about the EOs is that so many of them have good properties, you should be able to find something in a flavor you like. But if not, by all means, use a flavor oil.
And to be honest, my doctor is a physician-assistant with a degree in naturopathic medicine and I have a friend who is certified to advise on EOs and herbal remedies so I had good sources for helping me if I had questions about what to use and what to avoid.
In the end, what you have to do is figure out what you are comfortable with, do some research, and then stay with what feels right for YOU.


----------



## girlishcharm2004

I went down to the library which is subscribed to EbscoHOST, a scholarly research database, and found three research studies that proved fluoride doesn't benefit oral health.  Unless my dentist can show me research that proves otherwise, I won't use fluoride.  Although, they keep sending me home with fluoride suckers.  There are no benefit for the risks to out weigh; it's just toxic.


----------



## kryse13

girlishcharm2004 said:


> I went down to the library which is subscribed to EbscoHOST, a scholarly research database, and found three research studies that proved fluoride doesn't benefit oral health.  Unless my dentist can show me research that proves otherwise, I won't use fluoride.  Although, they keep sending me home with fluoride suckers.  There are no benefit for the risks to out weigh; it's just toxic.



I here ya sistah!

They would make us rinse with it in school.  I felt sick every time we would do that. And no I did not swallow it.
I know I'm crazy but I swear it gave me stomach problems and made me feel very ill for the longest time when I was young.  I am not a doctor and I have no proof and I sound more like paranoid conspiracy theorist. But that is my feeling. Once again not factual.


----------



## seven

I am liking using tooth soap so far. Am going for my next dental check in 6 months and i have a couple of very small cavities. Let's see what the dentist says..


----------



## Lindy

Neeners I had a cousin die from taking wintergreen internally.  Incredibly toxic...


----------



## neeners

newbie said:


> Neeners, you should look into wintergreen EO. It can be quite toxic. I would be very cautious about using it in any quantity for use in the mouth. I don't know if the old wintergreen gum used real wintergreen EO, but there are lots of cautions out there about it.
> 
> http://www.organicfacts.net/health-benefits/essential-oils/wintergreen-essential-oil.html





Lindy said:


> Neeners I had a cousin die from taking wintergreen internally. Incredibly toxic...




 wow!  good thing I checked here before making some.  I was looking around before I bought it, and no where did I see those warnings.  i'll get all my soap making items prepped and ready and go find me some peppermint instead.  thanks for the warning.


----------



## seven

For tge 1st time since using the tooth soap, i was gagging badly and nearly throw up, oops! Guess i was craving for the usual minty taste, and all i tasted was soap  def more peppermint and xylitol next time...


----------



## neeners

Tienne said:


> Does anyone know if neem oil _tastes_ bad? How much should I put in if I wanted to use some? Would 5% be too much?
> 
> (I don't mind the smell of Neem. I don't find it all that offensive. To me the absolute worst smelling soap ingredient EVER is patchouli. Yuck!)




 from what I hear, neem is very bitter.  not sure how it tastes, but I was using a natural toothpaste with neem in it, but I couldn't taste anything....


----------



## nframe

seven said:


> For tge 1st time since using the tooth soap, i was gagging badly and nearly throw up, oops! Guess i was craving for the usual minty taste, and all i tasted was soap  def more peppermint and xylitol next time...



Did you use coconut oil in your soap?  From what I read, this is what causes the horrible soapy taste.  As I said before, mine tastes quite bland.  It does not have a soapy taste at all.


----------



## Nevada

Great Topic! My teeth has been very sensitive, Dentist said to buy an electric toothbrush and keep using fluoride toothpaste. Didn't help. Last night I made this:

3 tbs Coconut Oil
3 tbs baking soda
25 drops peppermint eo
1 pack stevia
2 tsp vegetable glycerin (optional)

This is not Soap! Just mix it up! Warmed the CO, and stirred the rest in. I din't use any glycerin. Kind of like play dough texture. Tastes ok, at least not nauseating, I can tell it has Baking Soda, cause of the saltiness and texture. But the Peppermint eo and stevia make it palatable. Tooth Sensitivity stopped immediately!
Roy
Source: http://www.crunchybetty.com/homemade-toothpaste-want-to-ditch-the-fluoride


----------



## Tienne

neeners said:


> from what I hear, neem is very bitter.  not sure how it tastes, but I was using a natural toothpaste with neem in it, but I couldn't taste anything....



Thanks Neeners! Maybe I had better start on the low end and just use 2 or 3% and see how that goes. I can always up it in the next batch if it doesn't taste too awful.


----------



## Lucidcat2

Neve said:


> Also, this whole idea of cavities actually regenerating confuses the hell out of me, because I always thought that enamel couldn't regenerate, and my husband insists this is fact. So how can a cavity magically heal up (for whoever it was that posted that this happened)



That was the old way of thinking. I saw my dentist a few years ago & mentioned a mark on one of my teeth. She said it was sort of like a scar from a tooth that had started to form a cavity & then healed itself. I asked her to clarify. I'd always been told that you couldn't "heal" a cavity. But, yes, you can & it is becoming more common knowledge that cavities can heal.


----------



## Lin

Nevada said:


> Great Topic! My teeth has been very sensitive, Dentist said to buy an electric toothbrush and keep using fluoride toothpaste. Didn't help. Last night I made this:
> 
> 3 tbs Coconut Oil
> 3 tbs baking soda
> 25 drops peppermint eo
> 1 pack stevia
> 2 tsp vegetable glycerin (optional)
> 
> This is not Soap! Just mix it up! Warmed the CO, and stirred the rest in. I din't use any glycerin. Kind of like play dough texture. Tastes ok, at least not nauseating, I can tell it has Baking Soda, cause of the saltiness and texture. But the Peppermint eo and stevia make it palatable. Tooth Sensitivity stopped immediately!
> Roy
> Source: http://www.crunchybetty.com/homemade-toothpaste-want-to-ditch-the-fluoride


Xylitol would be a better choice because it has dental health benefits. Careful with xylitol around pets, its toxic to dogs. 
I like this recipe: http://wellnessmama.com/2500/homemade-remineralizing-toothpaste-recipe/


----------



## kryse13

seven said:


> For tge 1st time since using the tooth soap, i was gagging badly and nearly throw up, oops! Guess i was craving for the usual minty taste, and all i tasted was soap  def more peppermint and xylitol next time...



Do you remember your recipe?


----------



## neeners

I made my tooth soap yesterday, 90% OO 10% cocoa butteri added xylitol, bentonite clay and peppermint eo. I zap tested it today, and its my first zappy soap.   no lye pockets, but I think my scale did something weird (I'm thinking I need new batteries). Anyway.....must wait even longer to use.


----------



## judymoody

How much peppermint did you use?  It may be the mint that feels zappy.  It can feel tingly even on the skin if used at too high a %


----------



## neeners

3%it wasn't peppermint kind of zap....it was def a battery kind of zap. Lol. I checked it an hour ago, and it wasn't as zingy, so I'm thinking its just finishing saponifying...


----------



## kaliquen

Hi, this is my first time posting but I feel I can actually contribute something!  
My first batch of tooth soap was horrible:
Olive Oil 75%
Cocoa Butter 15%
Neem Oil 10%

I added added peppermint at 1 ppo because I wanted it to have a strong flavor, added 2 T xylitol and 2 t green clay for remineralizing.

Well, the neem made it so disgusting I almost threw up.  The smell of neem doesn't bother me, but omg the taste mixed with peppermint was so gross.

Batch #2
I left out the neem completely, didn't even want to think about ever putting that stuff in my mouth ever again 
Olive Oil 85%
Cocoa Butter 15%
I don't remember exactly how much xylitol or clay I added this time, but I think I cut the amounts in half, so ~1 T xylitol and ~1 t clay.  I also used much less EO.  
I divided the batch into thirds, added peppermint to one, sweet orange to another and left the last plain.  For some reason the xylitol started separating from the soap and turned into a gloppy gellyish mass and stirring was just making it worse.  I was soaping at room temp so it wasn't getting too hot or gelling.  Just as an experiment I stuck the soap into the microwave for a few seconds and it melted the goo and totally incorporated back into the soap.
I only let them cure for about 3 days before trying (yeah, I'm impatient!).  There was no soapy taste at all, but unfortunately not much of the EO came through either.  It cleaned my teeth amazingly well.  The only down side was that it makes the back of my mouth feel weird...you know how the back of your mouth waters really bad before you throw up?  Well in that spot it almost feels acidic...really hard to describe.  It doesn't bother me enough to stop using it and it goes away once I rinse.  I hope this will diminish as the soap ages.  
I did end up rebatching the peppermint to add more EO.  I grated it, added a tiny splash of water and stuck it in the microwave.  I mixed in more peppermint, probably 1 teaspoon (ish) and it's much better (even my 6 year old used it and liked it!).  Going to rebatch the orange today and add in more orange and maybe some clove or cinnamon.

Overall I'm very happy with this recipe, I only made .25 lb and it's going to last forever!


----------



## Lindy

Good job on coming up with a recipe you like.  My only caution is to be careful how much EO you add as it can be toxic at higher levels.


----------



## mel z

neeners said:


> 3%it wasn't peppermint kind of zap....it was def a battery kind of zap. Lol. I checked it an hour ago, and it wasn't as zingy, so I'm thinking its just finishing saponifying...



It is not the peppermint, and I agree with Lindy, look up amounts for each EO for usage in soap. I think Lindy and LSG can link to specific EO amounts? Maybe I am volunteering people for things I mis-remember. I hope not.

Let the soap cure, you just made it yesterday right? 

I never touch my soap with bare hands to cut in day or a week, I use gloves, (nor would I try it near more sensitive parts like my gums) for a minimum of 4 weeks. I like to go 6 weeks given my particular skin. That is just me though. However, if you made it yesterday, you shouldn't try it yet, just my thoughts.

Let it cure, then see.


----------



## Tienne

kaliquen said:


> I added added peppermint at 1 ppo because I wanted it to have a strong flavor, added 2 T xylitol and 2 t green clay for remineralizing.
> 
> Well, the neem made it so disgusting I almost threw up.  The smell of neem doesn't bother me, but omg the taste mixed with peppermint was so gross.
> .....
> 
> Just as an experiment I stuck the soap into the microwave for a few seconds and it melted the goo and totally incorporated back into the soap.



Thanks for your post kaiiquen! There was lots of info there I can use, such as adding green clay and the microwaving and thanks for the warning about how Neem tastes. On second thought, I think I'd better skip putting any of it in altogether. Thanks!


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## girlishcharm2004

I just made it!  I'm still nervous to try it, but I get to cut it tonight!  Hopefully, once it's done curing, I'll be able to muster up the courage to put soap in my mouth. *cringe*


----------



## neeners

I couldn't wait, so I tried it today at 12 days since making (zapped tested it a few days ago, and no zap).  surprisingly, it didn't taste like soap.  I didn't gag, and my teeth feel really clean.  it foamed up like those natural toothpastes.  I put enough mint to have just a hint of mint, and I didn't taste the xylitol at all.  I know it's only one use so far, but i'm really impressed with it already.  

next batch I may put a little more xylitol in, and definitely use cinnamon leaf EO with the peppermint, but that won't be for like 3 years when I've used this batch up (and I only made 1 lb).  lol

thank you OP for starting the thread and inspiring me to make dental soap!


----------



## judymoody

The cinnamon leaf will seize like you wouldn't believe.  If you use it, stir rather than stick blend.


----------



## neeners

thanks for the words of wisdom Judy!  we just bought a toothpaste that has cinnamon leaf in it, and it tastes so good!  like, a nice version of Big Red gum.


----------



## LazyUmbrella

how would one apply this soap - on a toothbrush? If so, shouldn't the soap be as soft as possible? So in other words eliminate the Cocoa Butter altogether?


----------



## neeners

i rub my moistened toothbrush on the soap to create lather.  you wouldn't want it too soft or else the soap would just melt into nothing (i wanted a soap, not a gummy paste....).  cocoa butter apparently helps prevent tooth decay by preventing bacteria and plague from adhering to your teeth.  hope that helps...


----------



## Lin

What about mixing ceylon cinnamon (or regular cinnamon if its not a concern) into the soap instead of cinnamon leaf eo? cinnamon powder is frequently an ingredient in tooth powders and natural toothpastes. I'd think it would taste particularly nice in HP after the cook... If you could mix it in well enough? I like cinnamon over mint so I'm thinking I'll use cinnamon powder and xylitol after the cook whenever I can eventually try this out.


----------



## Lindy

Try using honey instead of xylitol as it is healthier and has an antibacterial effect too.  Tastes good as well....


----------



## Lucidcat2

What about if you used extracts that you'd use in cooking or baking? Like peppermint extract or what-have-you?


----------



## Lin

xylitol has been found to have dental health benefits. And since you're not swallowing it, I'd expect no negative health benefits. Honey has antibacterial properties, but can also feed the bacteria with the sugar. The sweetness of xylitol without any sugar to feed bacteria also helps by encouraging acidic saliva production to form a poor environment for bacteria thats longer lasting than just brushing.


----------



## Lindy

I have to say I am always leery of things like Xylitol because isn't that one of the ones that will actually poison dogs?  I prefer things like honey which is not overly processed, but that is just me.....


----------



## Lin

Yes, its toxic to dogs but it doesn't poison them in the sense most people think of 'poison'. Its a sugar alcohol, and it kills them by severe hypoglycemia. It induces release of insulin which isn't necessary since its not a real/full sugar (I'm not sure the right way to say this haha, I lean towards more technical stuff myself and I'm sure you would understand exactly what I'm saying but not all forum members so I'm going layman's terms). In humans its actually a good choice for those with diabetes or disorders with insulin resistance. Excessive use (swallowing) will have a laxative affect like other sugar alcohols though.


----------



## Skatergirl46

I get what you mean about the back of the mouth thing. I lean over kind of far over the sink when I brush my teeth so it doesn't run back there. Maybe try using a little less soap on your brush. 

Eewww to the Neem! I have made Neem soap and I love it for my skin, but I couldn't stifle the gag if I put it into my mouth. :sick:


----------



## stargazer44

Lucidcat2 said:


> What about if you used extracts that you'd use in cooking or baking? Like peppermint extract or what-have-you?



I'm curious about this too!


----------



## marghewitt

What about 85% OO, 10% Cocoa Butter and 5% Palm Kernel Oil? I wanted to have something in the soapcalc cleansing column..... I made a 6oz batch of it tonight HP and added a few drops of Peppermint EO. DH and I are going to give it a try in the morning.


----------



## kaliquen

Even after rebatching to add more EO, the flavor seems to just disappear .  I've been adding a drop of diluted peppermint to my brush after loading the soap.  Is there any way to keep the flavor?  Should I be keeping it covered?


----------



## Lindy

marghewitt said:


> What about 85% OO, 10% Cocoa Butter and 5% Palm Kernel Oil? I wanted to have something in the soapcalc cleansing column..... I made a 6oz batch of it tonight HP and added a few drops of Peppermint EO. DH and I are going to give it a try in the morning.



 Palm Kernel is probably going to make it taste soapy....

 Lin I know what you're trying to say.  Thanks for that.


----------



## Lucidcat2

Okay, I made a 4 oz batch using peppermint extract instead of eo. I used honey also instead of xylitol because it is more natural & I don't want to find out the hard way that I have an intolerance to xylitol (I have a lot of allergies). However, I did CP it, so, I'll hold off trying it for as long as I can. But, I think tomorrow I'll make the same recipe but with peppermint eo so I can compare the difference.


----------



## Lin

Id use stevia before honey, because once diluted in the soap and then your mouth the positive effects of the honey are going to be gone, but the sugar still there to feed the bacteria. Honey works best as an antimicrobial when its solid honey like packing a wound.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman

I was thinking Stevia!

I have the dried leaves from my FIL's garden as well as the more processed crytals.  Would use the crystals in a soap, I think.


----------



## Lucidcat2

I used stevia powder in a lip balm I made one time & it tasted awesome except the colour made it look mouldy.


----------



## judymoody

Peppermint extract is peppermint oil in a base of alcohol.  The amount of flavor and scent you get will be much less than with a straight EO.  I'll be curious to see how it turned out.

I wonder how stevia holds up in the presence of lye.  Hmm, time to experiment.

I agree that the PKO will make your tooth soap taste more "soapy"  as it's very similar chemically to coconut oil which also tastes pretty bad in CP soap.


----------



## Lucidcat2

judymoody said:


> Peppermint extract is peppermint oil in a base of alcohol.  The amount of flavor and scent you get will be much less than with a straight EO.  I'll be curious to see how it turned out.
> 
> 
> Ah thanks for that judy. I was wondering what the difference in make-up was between the 2 of them. I have since made another 1lb batch, divided into 4 & added different things to each. Three I made using peppermint eo & one I added star anise eo. I cp'd the batch, so it will be a few weeks before any of them go near my mouth lol. I also used different kinds of clay in each except one I added raw cacao powder to make a chocolate mint flavour (hopefully!).


----------



## pjdxxxwa

nframe said:


> After reading about dental soap, I decided to have a go and made some.  I used 85% extra virgin olive oil and 15% cocoa butter.  Also added peppermint and fennel EOs.  It all went well and I poured the soap into an ice-cube silicone mould (photo attached).  It does not really smell like soap and you can smell the peppermint quite well.  The thing now is that I am impatient to try it.  Will it matter if I do not stick to the 4 week cure time (or more since there is a lot of OO)?




If you made cold procress soap do you really want lye in your mouth?    

I have to wonder why you added cocoa butter.  I would not use an expensive oil for this since you can't soften or moisturize teeth. For tooth purposes soap is soap is soap.  

I would think the EO's would make the greater difference - such as,  peppermint (fresh breath) and a small touch of tea tree (anti-fungal) would work wonders for a person who has no allergies to plants.


----------



## coffeetime

There isn't any lye left in cold process soap. It reacts completely with the fats as long as the recipe has been formulated and followed correctly.


----------



## pjdxxxwa

Incorrect. There can be lye in cold processed soap in three instances:  

1. if you fail to wait until full saponification has taken place,  and 
2. if you made a error in calculations, and 
3. if your water evaporated before the saponification process were complete.  Without adequate water, the process stops.


----------



## Lin

Your 2 and 3 fall under "as long as the recipe has been formulated and followed correctly" and for number 1 if thats a problem the person needs to step back from making soap and do a little more preparation (research).


----------



## gymstud

Do you still use a brush?
Would 100% olive oil soap count as dental soap what makes it dental soap?


----------



## Susie

pjdxxxwa said:


> Incorrect. There can be lye in cold processed soap in three instances:
> 
> 1. if you fail to wait until full saponification has taken place,  and
> 2. if you made a error in calculations, and
> 3. if your water evaporated before the saponification process were complete.  Without adequate water, the process stops.



And some of us still zap test our soap.  If I do not trust it in my mouth, I am not going to give it to my family.  And I am talking regular bath soap, not tooth soap.  We on this forum should know how to use a soap calculator.  There are stickies to help new people use them even.


----------



## mKaterina

Hello! 
I never heard or try the tooth soap. How is made? What method you use?


----------



## neeners

^^ please read through the thread.  your questions will be answered. If you're new to soapmaking, there are lots of youtube videos (soap queen and soaping101 have good ones) have how to make CP soap


----------



## nframe

pjdxxxwa said:


> I have to wonder why you added cocoa butter.  I would not use an expensive oil for this since you can't soften or moisturize teeth. For tooth purposes soap is soap is soap.



Since you think this recipe is bad, what alterations would you suggest?


----------



## neeners

pjdxxxwa said:


> I have to wonder why you added cocoa butter.  I would not use an expensive oil for this since you can't soften or moisturize teeth. For tooth purposes soap is soap is soap.



In researching dental soap, it was found that cocoa butter prevents tooth decay. 



pjdxxxwa said:


> Incorrect. There can be lye in cold processed soap in three instances:
> 
> 1. if you fail to wait until full saponification has taken place,  and
> 2. if you made a error in calculations, and
> 3. if your water evaporated before the saponification process were complete.  Without adequate water, the process stops.



saponification process should be done within 24 hours of completing soap (if gelled), up to 3 days if no gel. Considering the minimum suggested wait time to use CP soap is 4 weeks, unless the scale or recipe was way off, or failed to mix the lye water properly, all your above instances won't occur. And, of course soapmakers should zap test their soaps to ensure safety of the soap prior to use.


----------



## Triquetra

Im not going to lie, I am lye phobic.  I would really love to try but that deep fear freezes me.  So my question is other than a recipe I found with pure castile soap, coconut oil, EO's and Xylitol - is there another way or recipe?  Or should I bite the soap fear and just try it?  I'd really love to help my teeth be a bit better than what they are now and this sounds like it would fit the bill.


----------



## Lin

If you're afraid of using tooth soap but want to stop using commercial toothpaste, you might be interested in this which I posted earlier in the thread: http://wellnessmama.com/2500/homemade-remineralizing-toothpaste-recipe/


----------



## Triquetra

Lin said:


> If you're afraid of using tooth soap but want to stop using commercial toothpaste, you might be interested in this which I posted earlier in the thread: http://wellnessmama.com/2500/homemade-remineralizing-toothpaste-recipe/




I must have missed that going through the thread - thank you!


----------



## pjdxxxwa

Lin said:


> Your 2 and 3 fall under "as long as the recipe has been formulated and followed correctly" and for number 1 if thats a problem the person needs to step back from making soap and do a little more preparation (research).




There can be many reasons a recipe may have been off. Doubt research or more preparation is needed if you scale lost its calibration, for example. Unless it is medical equipment there can be a pretty high error rate to pass it to sell to the public.  And many soap makers have been distracted by "life" and interruptions. Distractions can happen to anyone.


----------



## pjdxxxwa

nframe said:


> Since you think this recipe is bad, what alterations would you suggest?



I never said it was a bad recipe. I said I would not waste an expensive oil it and use EO's for my anti-germ causing protection.


----------



## pjdxxxwa

neeners said:


> In researching dental soap, it was found that cocoa butter prevents tooth decay.
> 
> 
> I forogt to ask where you saw that research.  I am interested to see what was said, and by whom.  I have done much research through AMI and unless my memory is failing I don't recall that being mentioned - but that was a decade ago;  maybe it's a recent discovery.  :neutral:


----------



## pjdxxxwa

*fear of lye? why?*



Triquetra said:


> Im not going to lie, I am lye phobic.  I would really love to try but that deep fear freezes me.  So my question is other than a recipe I found with pure castile soap, coconut oil, EO's and Xylitol - is there another way or recipe?  Or should I bite the soap fear and just try it?  I'd really love to help my teeth be a bit better than what they are now and this sounds like it would fit the bill.




Lye is used in food preparation for pretzels, certain kinds of Cool Whip and many other things people eat every day. 
If you don't want to tongue test your soap for active lye (it really is nothing more than a little wiggly zap), then just make your soap by hot processing it. 
If you do it the right way it will look and feel just like cp soap, and no worries about seizing soap with the wrong FO.  It's easy enough to do and a little sodium lactate will help prevent those sunken sides. 

Ask your library if they have this book:  ISBN: 1-58180-268-4   It shows step by step how to do HP three separate ways successfully.


----------



## DeeAnna

"...If you don't want to tongue test your soap for active lye (it really is nothing more than a little wiggly zap), then just make your soap by hot processing it. ..."

A lye heavy soap will be a lye heavy soap, regardless of the method used.


----------



## seven

you're gonna want the tooth soap to at least have some taste in it. mine was lacking that and all i got is a yucky soapy taste that made me gag everytime. i've stopped using my tooth soap coz it made me want to throw up every time. be more royal on the peppermint/xylitol/stevia/whatever it is you're using to mask the soapy taste.


----------



## Lin

I said if number 1 is an issue you need to step back and take more preparation. If you do not know when soap is safe to use, you shouldn't be making soap yet. Again, problems with scale calibration fall under "as long as the recipe has been formulated and followed correctly" Distractions causing a problem fall under "as long as the recipe has been formulated and followed correctly"

Soap needs to be safe regardless of where you are using on your body. There are not heightened guidelines for tooth soap, because ALL soap needs to be safe and have the recipe formulated and followed correctly. And all soapmakers need to know when soap is safe to use, and how to check soap for safety before using it.


----------



## neeners

pjdxxxwa said:


> I forogt to ask where you saw that research.  I am interested to see what was said, and by whom.  I have done much research through AMI and unless my memory is failing I don't recall that being mentioned - but that was a decade ago;  maybe it's a recent discovery.  :neutral:



http://worldental.org/teeth/chocolate-can-protect-against-tooth-decay/

http://naturalsociety.com/cocoa-bean-husk-protect-teeth-boost-dental-health/

There are more articles if you google


----------



## Triquetra

pjdxxxwa said:


> Lye is used in food preparation for pretzels, certain kinds of Cool Whip and many other things people eat every day.
> If you don't want to tongue test your soap for active lye (it really is nothing more than a little wiggly zap), then just make your soap by hot processing it.
> If you do it the right way it will look and feel just like cp soap, and no worries about seizing soap with the wrong FO.  It's easy enough to do and a little sodium lactate will help prevent those sunken sides.
> 
> Ask your library if they have this book:  ISBN: 1-58180-268-4   It shows step by step how to do HP three separate ways successfully.



It's not so much of putting soap in my mouth but using lye to make soap.  I tend to use M&P and rebatch soap so I dont have to mess with lye.  In the back of my head I picture doing something wrong and setting off an explosion the size of a nuclear bomb - I know not possible but its my nightmare. lol  Maybe some day Ill get over the fear of lye ...:Kitten Love:


----------



## pjdxxxwa

DeeAnna said:


> "...If you don't want to tongue test your soap for active lye (it really is nothing more than a little wiggly zap), then just make your soap by hot processing it. ..."
> 
> A lye heavy soap will be a lye heavy soap, regardless of the method used.




My understanding was she did not want to make CP soap due to tongue testing. 
In HP there is no need test it and even if you wonder about it being "heavy" the heat processing will turn the majority of the lye resulting in much less tingling on the tongue.


----------



## pjdxxxwa

Triquetra said:


> It's not so much of putting soap in my mouth but using lye to make soap.  I tend to use M&P and rebatch soap so I dont have to mess with lye.  In the back of my head I picture doing something wrong and setting off an explosion the size of a nuclear bomb - I know not possible but its my nightmare. lol  Maybe some day Ill get over the fear of lye ...:Kitten Love:




Lye is not anything to be fearful of if you respect it.  It is merely a little stronger than bleach.  Both are alkaline. If you should splash lye on you it will not eat away at you like an acid would.  The first think that will happen is it will feel like a rash you want to scratch. It itches.  All you need to do is rinses it off. 

What experienced soap makers do (or should do) is have a cup of water with a touch of dish soap and a couple Tbl  of vinegar nearby just in case a bead falls on you, or you get a little splash.  If so just splash a bit of the s/v water on the spot.  Neutralized because vinegar is an acid.  

Wear safety goggles so there is no accidents with splashes to the eyes, but for the rest of the body it is not all that harmful.  You won't be bathing in it. :wink:

Soapmaking is as easy,  or as hard,  as you make it.  Really.  It is not that hard and everyone I've taught says the same thing after their first batch - 'I feel so silly now for being afraid of it.'


----------



## coffeetime

Actually vinegar is not really recommended for lye on skin. The reaction between the vinegar and lye can cause more damage as it gives off heat. Best to stick with a good rinse with water.


----------



## pjdxxxwa

neeners said:


> http://worldental.org/teeth/chocolate-can-protect-against-tooth-decay/
> 
> http://naturalsociety.com/cocoa-bean-husk-protect-teeth-boost-dental-health/
> 
> There are more articles if you google




Thank you for these two. They are a start.  I am attempting to find an article, or link to an article, in a medical or dental journal itself - with no luck.  I tried to request the information from the the first link, but it did not go through. Then I noticed that they said one might also contact them at worldental(at) gmail.com. This raised a red flag with me since most world wide organizatons don't use gmail as their form of contact.  roblem:  But, I will search a little more to see what I can find.


----------



## MadMadamMim

Very interesting thread! I made a homemade tooth soap from an online recipe using Dr. Bonners and coconut oil and some other things and it was disgusting :sick: but really effective. There was was some water in which you dissolved xylitol or stevia and that addition caused it to have a rather short shelf life which is why I got away from using it.

I'm encouraged to hear that skipping or using very small amounts of CO will alleviate that awful taste. I'd like to pick it up again as I really noticed a difference in my dental health when I was using it. Doing it as a CP soap will really be a time saver.


----------



## Lindy

Coconut oil is one of the oils that make your dental soap taste "soapy".


----------



## Triquetra

Lindy said:


> Coconut oil is one of the oils that make your dental soap taste "soapy".



Curious, Ive read through this thread so bare with me if I missed it - what other oil is better used if Coconut oil is soapy tasting.  Would it matter if its fractionated coconut oil or Coconut oil 76 that makes it soap tasting?


----------



## Lin

pjdxxxwa said:


> My understanding was she did not want to make CP soap due to tongue testing.
> In HP there is no need test it and even if you wonder about it being "heavy" the heat processing will turn the majority of the lye resulting in much less tingling on the tongue.


You definitely still need to zap test or otherwise test HP soap, it can be just as lye heavy as CP soap. 

And you never want to use vinegar on skin after lye, the 'neutralizing' reaction will put off a large amount of heat burning you worse.


----------



## Lindy

Just as a side note, dental soap first made its appearance in the 1800s as well as tooth powder in the 1940s.  This is nothing new, but rather remembering what we did in the past that worked.


----------



## sunfloweracres

*Tooth Soap*



Little_Irish_Hippie said:


> Wow, I had never thought of using actual soap for my teeth, I'm going to have to try it! My teeth are probably not in best condition and I do brush twice a day, it should be fun to give the soap a go. Perhaps 90% OO and 10% shea butter... as that's what I have. Is anyone aware of oils other than coconut that might taste yuck?


 
I don't think shea butter would taste very good, just my opinion. It seems like cocoa butter with the OO would be a better choice.:smile: 

After reading some of the posts on here and around the internet, I just tried one of my Hibiscus tea fragrance free salt bars made with CO, OO, and Castor oil and it wasn't to bad. My teeth feel really clean. I agree, it will be fun to make a special soap (in small bars) for teeth. What do you guys think of a salt bar?


----------



## Lindy

Keep in mind that you don't want grit in the soap as it will scratch the enamel on your teeth...


----------



## kaliquen

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but chapstick tubes are excellent for tooth soap.  I got tired of chasing the blob of soap around the bowl it was in so I grated it, melted it down with a little water in the microwave and put it in a piping bag to squirt into the tubes.  Works perfectly!


----------



## MadMadamMim

Great idea, kaliquen!


----------



## pjdxxxwa

coffeetime said:


> Actually vinegar is not really recommended for lye on skin. The reaction between the vinegar and lye can cause more damage as it gives off heat. Best to stick with a good rinse with water.



BEFORE YOUR BEGIN:  My comment is without malicious intent, I am merely presenting facts in a calm manner from my end. 

Your assumption is incorrect.  As with chemists who have tunnel vision and only beleive what they THINK they read,  you failed to comprehend the entire message.  It is a mixture of water, soap AND vinegar.  
I have used this method vs plain water since 1999, as do those I have taught on my list since that time.  Plain water takes much longer to rinse off and gallons to do so.  The water and soap mixed with lye buffers the "chemical reaction" the chemist warn against.  Sometimes it does not take "rocket science" to see common sense.  
I was also told by "experienced" soap makers it was dangerous to make soap in a crockpot, and it was impossible to mold HP soap in pretty molds, and that you cannot make a 100% white goatmilk soap -  but I did and with many witnesses at the Aberdeen gathering of 2001.  
For too many years "experienced" soapmakers would frighten new ones with how "hard" it is to make soap on the yahoo lists. I wrote that book for Northlight Publications showing new soapmakers just how EASY it really can be. 
I am not so unthinking that I must believe everything a chemist posts to their group.  After all, they work in an industry that strips real soaps glycerin to use in makeup to help make the risk of the man-made chemical components in it, then use plant glycerin back into soap soap it sells. Plant glycerin in too high of an amount can in itself be drying to many skin types.  As does clays.  There is a lot to learn about soap making, combining oils and ingredients to make soap do what the soap maker wants it to do and not merely rely on trial and error. As an example … 4 ounces of castor oil is all one needs for a good shampoo bar.  The other oils is what makes the softening, strengthing or gentleness and shine components of a bar.  Too much castor will ruin a bar. 
In the past week I have felt like a handful of soap makers have attempted to discredit what I have written to new people. Just because I haven't had time to respond regularly does not mean I do not know what I am taking about. So, please stop trying to discredit my comments by assuming I am new soap maker. I think everyone here is clever enough to pick and choose whose comment they wish to try or follow. :angel:


----------



## pjdxxxwa

Lin said:


> You definitely still need to zap test or otherwise test HP soap, it can be just as lye heavy as CP soap.
> 
> And you never want to use vinegar on skin after lye, the 'neutralizing' reaction will put off a large amount of heat burning you worse.



Lin,

If you are sure you measred correctly you do not need to test for lye in HP soap.  
As for the vinegar --- read what I wrote to coffee time. I stand behind the advice I gave. :smile:


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## coffeetime

Delores, I don't think anyone is treating you like a newbie. There are lots of people on here who are new to the forum but have also been making soap for awhile. I have been making soap for almost 20 years, and I know that regardless of what you do personally, on a public forum like this you always offer the safest advice you can because there are lots of beginning soapmakers reading these forums to learn the ropes.


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## Hazel

@ pjdxxxwa - 

It's fine that you want to stand behind what you state in your comments and no one is trying to discredit you. However, I agree with coffeetime and Lin. The safest advice and the most important thing is to get the lye or raw soap rapidly off your skin and cool, running water is best. 

To clarify for anyone who is new to soapmaking, use running water to rinse off and not straight vinegar. Putting vinegar on lye causes it to heat up  before beginning to "neutralize" the lye. You will make the burn worse if you pour straight vinegar on it. A blend of primarily water with a little vinegar and soap as pjdxxxwa mentioned would work but running water is faster and effective. It doesn't take gallons to rinse off the lye unless you've splashed a large amount of lye all over your body. Then I recommend jumping into the shower for at least 15 minutes and using gallons of water to rinse off. After rinsing, a blend of water, vinegar and soap could be used if anyone feels the need for further rinsing.

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=6735

http://itonlyadds.blogspot.com/2012/08/on-chemical-burns-vinegar-and-liquefied.html

If I inadvertently splash a little lye or raw soap on me, I just rinse with cold water for a few minutes. It doesn't take long to rinse it off and I've never had any burns from doing it this way. But I don't use more than a 33% lye concentration unless I'm making bastile soap so this might account for the ease of diluting and rinsing off with water.

Also, I always test for lye in HP batches because I want to make sure the lye is converted before adding EOs or FOs.


----------



## Lin

pjdxxxwa said:


> Lin,
> 
> If you are sure you measred correctly you do not need to test for lye in HP soap.
> As for the vinegar --- read what I wrote to coffee time. I stand behind the advice I gave. :smile:


Incorrect, there is no way to 100% ensure that everything was measured correctly. Your scale may have failed. There may be a problem with a new bottle of lye. The lye may not have fully dissolved for some reason. You always need to test soap for safety, regardless of the method made to make the soap. You could equally claim that you didn't need to test CP soap if you'd measured correctly and had a big superfat. But you do, its just basic safety measures. Its better to test every batch for safety than to make 500 safe batches to 1 lye heavy batch that burns yourself or someone else. 

The neutralization reaction between vinegar and lye produces heat. Its an exothermic reaction. Anyone can research this or with proper equipment test it themselves. Even dilute vinegar in water, while the risk of a heat burn is much lower there is no reason to use that over straight water to dilute and remove lye. I do use dilute vinegar on items like the table as an extra precaution during cleanup, but never skin. 

And as said, replies you're getting have nothing to do with being new to the forum. I'm rather new to the forum, as is coffee (just noticed that!). Replies are replies, I don't know of anyone who checks when you joined the forum before deciding how to reply to someone.


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## pjdxxxwa

Hazel said:


> @ pjdxxxwa -
> To clarify for anyone who is new to soapmaking, use running water to rinse off and not straight vinegar. Putting vinegar on lye causes it to heat up



And to "clarify"  I did NOT state to put "straight vinegar"  on a lye splash. You are the third person to not clearly read what i wrote.  Let's do this simpler:

Have ready THIS mixture: 

1 cup of cold water  + 
small squirt of dish soap + 
⅛ c. vinegar   

This BUFFERS and NEUTRALIZES the lye (WITHOUT THE BURN REACTION) and much faster gallons of cold water trinsing that can redden the skin as you wait for all the lye to finally be rinsed off.  

I do wish people would actually read ALL words rather posting on an assumption of what they think they read.  

And yes, a bead of lye (not removed or pushed into the skin by the strap of a sandle) or a splash left on the skin can cause skin damage. Did I say it could not?  No, I did not.  Go back a reread what I wrote.  I said it is nothing to fear if you treat lye with respect when handling it, and hopefully with a little common sense, as well.  READ all WORD in post and common sense should follow. 

This is the type of thing that caused Kathy Miller and Catherine Failor to stop posting to lists. And why I normally do not. One gets tired of the bickering and my way is the only way posts.  

I haven't time for these games. Good bye.  :wave:


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## DeeAnna

Getting back to the original subject of this thread, I found these receipts in an old book. I thought you might get a kick (and maybe some ideas) from reading about dental soaps of the past. 

Taken from The Encyclopedia of Practical Receipts and Processes, William B Dick, 1872. Please take these recipes with a grain of salt (or soap) due to their age. Comments and clarifications given in square brackets [ ] are mine. Enjoy!

TOOTHPASTES. These may consist of any of the substances ordinarily used as dentifrices, reduced to the state of impalpable powder, and beaten up with sufficient honey (liquefied by a gentle heat), syrup, or capillaire [_orange flavored syrup_], to give them the form of a smooth and moderately stiff paste or electuary [_sweetened medicinal paste_], a sufficient quantity of aromatics being usually added, as it were, to "embalm [_the word is used here in the old sense "to sweeten"_] and perfume the mouth." Honey of roses is often, and conserve of roses sometimes, used for those in which their odor and color are suitable. A little rectified spirit [_high-proof ethanol aka EverClear_] is a useful addition, as tending to preserve them, and promote their action. A little eau de Cologne or lavender water is often employed, with the same intention. They are usually put up in porcelain or ornamental glazed earthenware pots, furnished with closely fitting covers, to preserve their contents from the air. The mixed powders should be passed through a very fine gauze-sieve, before adding the honey, and the paste should not be potted until the day following that on which it is made.

1311. Soap Tooth Paste. Take of Castile soap (air-dried, in fine powder), and cuttlefish bone, of each 2 ounces; honey, 4 or 5 ounces; aromatics or perfume at will, with or without the addition of a little rectified spirit. A very excellent preparation, superior to all the other pastes for cleaning the teeth and removing tartar and calculus from them, but inferior in blanching and preservative qualities to areca nut charcoal paste. A pink or rose color may be given it by adding 1 drachm [_dram, 1/16 ounce, about 1.8 grams_] of finely powdered cochineal, or a fluid drachm or two of the tincture. It is commonly ordered in books to be made with honey of roses, but the alkali of the soap spoils the color of this article. The above preparation is also known under the names of Spanish Dentifrice, and Castilian Tooth Cream.

1313. Odontine. There are several dentifrices advertised under this name, two or three of which have acquired a very large sale in the fashionable world. That of an eminent perfumery house appears to have the following composition: Cuttle-fish bone, Castile soap and red coral, equal parts; color with tincture of cochineal and mix with honey sufficient to make a paste, and essential oils to aromatize, a sufficient quantity of each.

1327. Balm of Thousand Flowers. Take of white Castile soap, 2 ounces; honey, 4 ounces; water, 12 ounces; alcohol, 4 ounces; melt the Castile soap and honey in the alcohol and water with a gentle heat. Flavor with oil of rose and wintergreen. Used as a dentifrice.

[Here's a cocoa butter tooth paste:]

1314. Pelitier's Odontine is said to consist of pulverized sepia-bone (cuttle-fish bone), with a little butter of cacao [cocoa butter], beaten up with honey and aromatized or scented with essential oils.


----------



## Lindy

Thank you for that DeeAnna


----------



## DeeAnna

Most welcome! 

Dontcha love the archaic language? When I hit the word "embalm", it really threw me, so I went back to old dictionaries to find out why one would use this word in this particular context. Thankfully the old usage of "to sweeten" is a much nicer alternative meaning!

This book is free to download at the Internet Archive. It is a fascinating read (at least for me!) There is a large section about soap making which is especially interesting. https://archive.org/details/encyclopediaofpr00dick  or https://archive.org/details/encyclopediaofpr00dickrich


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

DeeAnna said:


> ..............Dontcha love the archaic language? When I hit the word "embalm", it really threw me, so I went back to old dictionaries to find out why one would use this word in this particular context. Thankfully the old usage of "to sweeten" is a much nicer alternative meaning!.............


 
Bah, I'll put my brain spoon away then!

I have to say, I've been out of this thread for a while and see I've missed a lot! :shock:


----------



## judymoody

kaliquen said:


> Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but chapstick tubes are excellent for tooth soap.  I got tired of chasing the blob of soap around the bowl it was in so I grated it, melted it down with a little water in the microwave and put it in a piping bag to squirt into the tubes.  Works perfectly!



Great hint!  I was using flat circular lip balm containers but the tube sounds like a much better idea.


----------



## DeeAnna

I have some bigger 0.5 oz tubes that look like lip balm tubes on steroids -- 5/8" diameter and maybe 4" tall. They'd be great for this.


----------



## Lindy

I love the old books - I have a British pharmacopeia from the 1800s and love how it reads....  I'll grab that book and thank you for the link to it...


----------



## Hazel

Sorry DeeAnna - 

I just had a chance to get caught up on my email notifications and I'm feeling miffed about the reply.



pjdxxxwa said:


> And to "clarify"  I did NOT state to put "straight vinegar"  on a lye splash. You are the third person to not clearly read what i wrote.



I did read what you wrote. You didn't read what I wrote in my previous post which was:  



Hazel said:


> A blend of primarily  water with a little vinegar and soap _*as pjdxxxwa mentioned*_ would work  but running water is faster and effective.



You shouldn't berate me for not reading your post especially since your reply demonstrates you didn't read my entire post. Also, my clarification about using running water and not vinegar wasn't directed at you. I wrote it just in case someone new to soapmaking might read the discussion.

I now return everyone to DeeAnna's tactful transition into getting back on topic. :grin:


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman

Whilst I am a gentleman, I have to say that the whole "Buy my book, and give me ideas for my next book" ethos along with a lot of the wording in the posts put me off - and at 30€ odd for a copy, I can buy a lot better things related to soaping!


----------



## Lin

Ditto. Earlier posts that were quite defensive and lashing out in defense, followed by irrelevant quips to demonstrate expertise. Just belays insecurity and is off putting.


----------



## kryse13

*Clove oil in dental soap*

I had previously posted the idea of using Clove Oil in the dental soap.  I finally had a chance to research it and from what I read it is ok to use for short periods of time.  Clove oil will damage the nerve endings if used too often, rather than just numbing the tooth.

So I am deciding to nix the clove oil and just go for 85 OO and 15 Cocoa Butter With Xylitol and peppermint EO. Havent quite figured what percent to use the Peppermint EO at though. Was thinking about .5? or do you guys think this would be too much.


----------



## seven

with 0.5, did you mean 0.5oz ppo or 0.5% of weight of total fats/oils?

i already forgot how much peppermint EO i put for my tooth soap batch, but i just want to say that i can smell the peppermint but as far as tasting it in the mouth: nothing  which was disappointing for me as i can't stand the yucky, soapy taste that made me wanna gag every time.. i think you should be a bit generous with the xylitol and peppermint EO if you want to be able to have a slight taste in yer mouth.


----------



## neeners

what about cinnamon leaf EO?  I want to put that in my next batch of dental soap...in like 3 years.  lol


----------



## Lin

You could put actual powdered cinnamon in, it might not have a taste unless you do it HP though. But cinnamon is good for the mouth and many recipes call for it. Some are concerned about the blood thinning affects of cassia cinnamon though and go for ceylon cinnamon. I personally like the taste if cinnamon more than mint so thats what I'll probably do. One of my roommates uses a cinnamon tooth powder instead of toothpaste. 

Interesting about the clove. My bf recently had an emergency extraction due to infection and then developed dry socket, they packed the socket with a clove oil and zinc oxide soaked gauze. It helped the pain immediately and he had it replaced twice before he had to go without. He said everything he ate tasted like clove though, but that wouldn't be an issue with tooth soap lol. So maybe clove oil would be good in a now and then toothpaste for pain and sensitivity. I get a lot of tooth pain so that has me very interested. I've lost a lot of enamel on my teeth due to health problems causing vomiting. I actually had really great teeth before that, never had a cavity as a kid. Then at 21 they told me I had my first cavity... And 7 of them. Lots of tooth damage from dehydration (saliva protects the teeth) and vomiting. I've also had some teeth break. So the remineralizing and healing stuff has me really interested for those reasons. My roommate feels he is remineralizing his cavities with energy healing.... I'll go for the tooth soap, thanks.


----------



## kryse13

seven said:


> with 0.5, did you mean 0.5oz ppo or 0.5% of weight of total fats/oils?QUOTE]
> 
> good question, .5 in soapcalc where is says fragrance, i have a cold and it is going to take a lot of brain power to figure this out....
> 
> ....
> 
> it says .5 oz/lb
> 
> 
> .5 per pound of oil of total oil weight. i think thats what I meant.
> 
> wow today is *NOT* going to be a good thinking day for me....


----------



## kryse13

Lin said:


> You could put actual powdered cinnamon in, it might not have a taste unless you do it HP though. But cinnamon is good for the mouth and many recipes call for it. Some are concerned about the blood thinning affects of cassia cinnamon though and go for ceylon cinnamon. I personally like the taste if cinnamon more than mint so thats what I'll probably do. One of my roommates uses a cinnamon tooth powder instead of toothpaste.
> 
> Interesting about the clove. My bf recently had an emergency extraction due to infection and then developed dry socket, they packed the socket with a clove oil and zinc oxide soaked gauze. It helped the pain immediately and he had it replaced twice before he had to go without. He said everything he ate tasted like clove though, but that wouldn't be an issue with tooth soap lol. So maybe clove oil would be good in a now and then toothpaste for pain and sensitivity. I get a lot of tooth pain so that has me very interested. I've lost a lot of enamel on my teeth due to health problems causing vomiting. I actually had really great teeth before that, never had a cavity as a kid. Then at 21 they told me I had my first cavity... And 7 of them. Lots of tooth damage from dehydration (saliva protects the teeth) and vomiting. I've also had some teeth break. So the remineralizing and healing stuff has me really interested for those reasons. My roommate feels he is remineralizing his cavities with energy healing.... I'll go for the tooth soap, thanks.


 
I didn't research the credibility of the articles I read, I just get what most of the articles say and from what I understand it is ok for shorter term use, and actually very effective.  I'm just a little more cautious now about oils after we were informed about wintergreen EO, and I'm very glad I am.

and my meds are also taking a toll on my teeth  sorry to hear about  yours.


----------



## Nevada

Bump this interesting thread
I had to drop the peppermint oil - made my teeth sensitive. 

This is my current "Tooth Oil Cleaner", (can't call it Soap)
150 gr Coconut oil
75 gr Baking Soda
2 packs Zylitol

Roy



Nevada said:


> Great Topic! My teeth has been very sensitive, Dentist said to buy an electric toothbrush and keep using fluoride toothpaste. Didn't help. Last night I made this:
> 
> 3 tbs Coconut Oil
> 3 tbs baking soda
> 25 drops peppermint eo
> 1 pack stevia
> 2 tsp vegetable glycerin (optional)
> 
> This is not Soap! Just mix it up! Warmed the CO, and stirred the rest in. I din't use any glycerin. Kind of like play dough texture. Tastes ok, at least not nauseating, I can tell it has Baking Soda, cause of the saltiness and texture. But the Peppermint eo and stevia make it palatable. Tooth Sensitivity stopped immediately!
> Roy
> Source: http://www.crunchybetty.com/homemade-toothpaste-want-to-ditch-the-fluoride


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Just giving this thread a new lease of life - 

I'm thinking of making a HP tooth soap this weekend.  Looking at the 90% OO, 10% Cocoa Butter recipe, with some after-cook adds of Stevia powder and baking soda.  Would also consider some cinnamon powder mixed through, or maybe some mint infused oil after cook.

With the baking soda, stevia and cinnamon, are we looking at the usual 2tbl ppo?  Or should I up the baking soda a wee bit?


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## Loolee

This question was asked in this thread, but never answered.  is there any reason one couldn't make a liquid soap using KoH and use it for tooth soap?

I'm thinking that if you left it thick and didnt dilute it as much as normal, then you'd get something quite thick, almost like normal commercial toothpaste.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

I don't see a reason why not - a lot of "home-made" recipes out there call for using Dr Bonner's liquid Castile, so it might well be an option to make a liquid soap instead of a hard one.


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## Kansas Farm Girl

"With the baking soda, stevia and cinnamon, are we looking at the usual 2tbl ppo?  Or should I up the baking soda a wee bit?"

I can't use baking soda every day in my mouth. It tears up my gums and cheeks, makes them sore and feels like I have cuts. Even every once in awhile causes problems. I did make some 90% OO, 10% Cocobutter that I have been using. I put peppermint oil in part of the batch and left some plain. Haven't tried the mint bar yet. Can't say the plain tastes good, but I'm used to it now. I did sprinkle some BP on my bar and ended up washing that off due to the problems mentioned above. I have noticed the tea stains on my teeth seem not to be as brown as before. I pulled out the toothpaste one day, used that, and then went right back to my soap. I like the way my teeth feel after using soap vs toothpaste.


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## Lindy

It's not a good idea to use baking soda every day on your teeth as it scratches your enamel.


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## Obsidian

I made a 100% peanut oil soap and use it on my teeth. It has a very mild, almost sweet taste. It works great as is or would be good with a minty/herbal EO.


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## AustinStraight

I wanna make a little 8-ounce HP batch of castile soap for my teeth... What do you guys store yours in?  I was thinking of just storing it in a wide-mouth jar.  Also... any idea how much stevia to add?  It would be AWESOME if I could get around to making this, I've been using an herbal tooth powder for about 9 months and it tastes very good & works well but I must admit, I miss the foam of conventional toothpaste... it's kind of a pain to rinse the little bits of powdered herb out of your teeth, too.


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## neeners

I put a small piece of my soap on the lid of a baby food container (below) then in the container I have baking soda.


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## AustinStraight

Are there any oils besides coconut that should be avoided?


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## Kansas Farm Girl

Lindy said:


> It's not a good idea to use baking soda every day on your teeth as it scratches your enamel.



or for some of us, not even once a week. good to know why I shouldn't do that. some people will tell you BS is wonderful for everything, 100% of the time


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## Lindy

Yeah they will and it is usually BS about the BS.... LOL


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## AustinStraight

Makes wonderful deodorant though ;-)


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

There are toothpastes with it in, but it's good to know that it is not a good idea to use it every day.  I might make half with it in at 2tbl ppo and the other half with out and keep them in pairs............use one one day and the other the next day.

Thanks for the heads up.


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## Nevada

teeth are a 5 on Moh's scale of hardness, baking soda is about a 2.4.



Lindy said:


> It's not a good idea to use baking soda every day on your teeth as it scratches your enamel.


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## Lindy

Any time you get into whitening your teeth you are damaging your enamel.  

 Nevada even though teeth are overall stronger than baking soda, the enamel can be scratched and that one of the reasons your teeth get sensitive using commercial
 tooth paste there is clay and in some there is baking soda, it doesn't mean it's good for the teeth.  There are reasons my teeth are no longer sensitive and part of that
 is what is in the commercial tooth pastes.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

So, I have a batch cooking in the slow cooker.  Just wanted to point out that the first time I use a butter in a soap, it's for a soap that won't even be used on skin!


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## seven

sadly, i am done with dental soap. i just cant stand the soapy taste in my mouth, makes me wanna gag all the time. i did put some xylitol and peppermint EO, still no good.
if anyone has some untold secrets to avoid this thing, i'm all ears.

back to my smoker's toothpaste for now..


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

I used some straight from the slow cooker (cooled down, of course) and it was pretty grim, even with powdered Stevia and cinnamon.  Hoping that it chills out and becomes nicer.


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## Kansas Farm Girl

I can't say mine tastes better than it did before, but just that I have gotten used to it. I like the way my teeth feel clean after using it and that the tea stains are not as bad, so i put up with it. I did put some peppermint EO in some of it, but I haven't tried one of those bars yet. I need to go see the dentist and get a baseline so I can compare the results in a year to see how my dental health is after using it for that time frame. I just have to think about calling for an appointment while his office is open, midnight or later doesn't cut it.


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## neeners

can you call and leave a message?


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## onugs

Or...

*Toothpaste formula:*
·      1/2 Cup Virgin Coconut Oil (not hydrogenated)
·      2-3 Tablespoons of either baking soda or 1 tablespoon of fine pumice
·      Xylitol* to taste, depending on how sweet you like your paste
·      15-20 drops of essential oil, mostly I use cinnamon or peppermint
·      Soften coconut oil with gentle heat
·      add ingredients and mix well
·      place in a glass jar
·      allow to cool


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## FlybyStardancer

Okay, so I'm thinking of making a small batch of this to try out, 90% OO and 10% CB, maybe 300g oils. I got some stevia to add to it (couldn't find xylitol in the store and I had a coupon I could use on top of a pre-exisiting sale price for the stevia), how much should I add? When do I add it, to the lye-water, or at trace? What percent peppermint EO (the standard 3% or less)?


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## Obsidian

You guys need to try 100% refined peanut oil soap. It literally has no flavor, bet it would be really nice with peppermint.


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## neeners

FlybyStardancer said:


> Okay, so I'm thinking of making a small batch of this to try out, 90% OO and 10% CB, maybe 300g oils. I got some stevia to add to it (couldn't find xylitol in the store and I had a coupon I could use on top of a pre-exisiting sale price for the stevia), how much should I add? When do I add it, to the lye-water, or at trace? What percent peppermint EO (the standard 3% or less)?




 I put 1tbsp PPO of xylitol in mine and 3% peppermint EO.  I made mine in Jan, and there's not too much scent left.  it's not overly sweet, but you can tell there's some sweetness there.  I put the xylitol in my lye water so it will melt (i dont' think it will otherwise).  hope that helps!


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## FlybyStardancer

Okay, I still haven't made the batch, but Ive been thinking about it... How low could I acceptably go with a water discount? 1.5:1 water:lye? 1.8:1? Or go insane and do 1:1?


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## DiddlyO

For those of you that make up a paste with coconut oil, do you need a preservative since there is no water? What is the shelf life? I'm thinking of making up a paste with coconut oil, green clay, calcium powder, xylitol and peppermint oil. Should I add some grapefruit seed extract or some other preservative?


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## Byrdi

Hi Everyone!  After reading this entire thread about tooth soap, I decided to share my experience.  I have used my own tooth soap for over 2 years now, and have a whiter smile than ever before.  Love how clean my teeth feel.  I am allergic to toothpaste from the store.  My insides of my cheeks would literally peel off after every brush!  Anyway, recently I ventured into liquid soap making.  I made a cold process 100% coconut milk liquid soap made from mostly olive oil and castor oil.  It does have 5% coconut oil in it.  I put a small amount of this into a squeeze bottle and it works wonderful as a tooth paste!  I did scent it with a few drops of peppermint eo.  I say whoever wondered if you could use KOH and make a liquid version, GO FOR IT!  I like it a lot better!  Byrdi


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## judymoody

Thanks for sharing your experience Byrdi!  I may have to try this.  I like what solid CP tooth soap does for my teeth but I can't say I like the taste all that much.


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## Byrdi

You are welcome judymoody!


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## FlybyStardancer

Okay, I have some more questions... Would it be safe to add citric acid to the lye water to form sodium citrate? Also, if I were to HP it... Would it be alright to add sodium lactate?


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## twinkiesmommy2009

*First Post*

So this is my first post!  I just finished reading the entire thread and I'm very intrigued by the idea of tooth soap.  First, I want to say that I've been using my commercial toothpaste but dipping it into a Neem Bark Toothpowder I got from Neem Tree Farms.  I think they have a toothpaste too but I can't remember.  The ingredients include neem bark, diatomaceous earth, baking soda, cinnamon powder, and clove!  

I've tried brushing with Dr. Bronners Peppermint Castile Soap  but I couldn't stick with it.  While brushing it wasn't terrible, and I enjoyed the minty feel and the super clean feeling teeth after, but I couldn't get over the soapy after taste that wouldn't go away.  Now that I know its likely caused by coconut oils and other hard oils I'm considering making my own tooth soap!  I too wonder though how I can incorporate Neem.  Maybe sticking to the tooth powder for now is the way to go until I can get a recipe I like for the soap.  

I've been making soaps, lotions, sugar scrubs, essential oils blends for massage oils, herbal healing, etc for awhile now but only for my family and very close friends.  I'm now really digging in so we can start working craft fairs and pay for my expensive hobby.   

Anyway, I'm waiting on a shipment of goodies so I'll have to give this a try when my cocoa butter gets here.

Anybody have any luck with flavoring it yet?  I'd love to have the peppermint flavor that was part of Dr. Bronners but without the yucky soap flavor.


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## Lindy

DiddlyO said:


> For those of you that make up a paste with coconut oil, do you need a preservative since there is no water? What is the shelf life? I'm thinking of making up a paste with coconut oil, green clay, calcium powder, xylitol and peppermint oil. Should I add some grapefruit seed extract or some other preservative?


 
 GSE is not a preservative but it is an anti-oxidant....


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## Byrdi

FlybyStardancer said:


> Okay, I have some more questions... Would it be safe to add citric acid to the lye water to form sodium citrate? Also, if I were to HP it... Would it be alright to add sodium lactate?



I don't know about the citric acid  addition but as for adding sodium lactate, I can't see why you couldn't  when I have heard it is also used in food as a preservative and acid  reducer, which sounds like a good addition to me. 
Byrdi


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## neeners

FlybyStardancer said:


> Okay, I have some more questions... Would it be safe to add citric acid to the lye water to form sodium citrate? Also, if I were to HP it... Would it be alright to add sodium lactate?



citric acid would react with lye, and just create a higher SF (this was discussed earlier in the thread).  I'm not sure about sodium lactate.

 I've been using my tooth soap (pretty much plain ol' bastille) since Feb and I love it.  my teeth feel so much cleaner than using store bought toothpaste (even the natural stuff).


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## FlybyStardancer

neeners said:


> citric acid would react with lye, and just create a higher SF (this was discussed earlier in the thread).  I'm not sure about sodium lactate.



I know that citric acid reacts with the lye. When I make a recipe I calculate how much extra lye I need to get the superfat I want with citric acid added to the lye water to form sodium citrate. My water is so dang hard that I need the extra boost to get a decent lather. (Nearly all of my soaps have both sugar and citric acid added, and I can tell the difference if I only add the sugar and not the citric acid.)


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## LunaSkye

DiddlyO said:


> For those of you that make up a paste with coconut oil, do you need a preservative since there is no water? What is the shelf life? I'm thinking of making up a paste with coconut oil, green clay, calcium powder, xylitol and peppermint oil. Should I add some grapefruit seed extract or some other preservative?


What about using CO with baking soda, xylitol, and an EO's.


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## Lindy

Coconut oil tastes "soapy"


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## HoneyLady

What a great thread!  Here is my two cents worth:

 As a teen, I had my wisdom teeth removed, and developed dry sockets -- for three long months!  As Lin noted above in the thread, my oral surgeon also packed my gums -- twice weekly for three months -- with gauze soaked in clove oil.  Yes, everything tasted like clove, and I lost 20 pounds because I could not stand solid foods.  But it did help with the pain.

 DH has ongoing teeth and gum issues dating back decades.  About 20 years ago, he began rubbing straight tea tree oil on his teeth and gums about every 10 days.

 The taste is terrible.  Better than Neem oil, but that's not saying much.  Sort of Rosemary/Pine on steroids due to the high turpin levels. 

 The results are amazing.  They decided to "wait" and are still "waiting" 20 years later, to do two root canals, and 3 extractions.  He was scheduled for four, and one tooth eventually cracked in two and had to be removed.  But he's kept all the others.  He gets planing done once a year, and his dentist calls him "Lazarus".  Of course, your mileage may vary. 

 I think I'm going to try a batch one of these days, using the tea tree.  I'll post when I've got some results.


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## DiddlyO

I made my toothpaste yesterday and I love it! I had been toying with the idea of a remineralising toothpaste (google it - it's a thing), so I used:

4 tsp calcium phosphate (got it from a food supplier - it's some kind of anti caking agent). $AU20 for 375g
6 tsp aquamin (green calcium brand - has trace minerals including fluorine) $AU29 for 250g
6tsp xylitol because I want my kids to use it
20 drops peppermint essential oil

I had wanted to leave this as a powder, but it was VERY powdery and I didn't like the idea of anyone inhaling the dust so I added:

Extra virgin unrefined coconut oil - just enough to make a thick paste.

It tastes great and my teeth feel super clean. Kids were happy to use it despite it being a light brown colour.

I used calcium phosphate because that is the form of calcium used in tooth mousse (MI paste in some countries), also phosphorous is an important mineral for teeth. I also wanted to cover as many bases as I could, so used the aquamin, which is some kind of sea plant that is naturally high in calcium as well as other minerals that help with calcium absorption.

Tooth Mousse costs $AU30+ for 40g. These ingredients will make 10 times as much. YAY!


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## FlybyStardancer

Just made a batch of the dental soap! Used stevia for the sweetener, the last of my peppermint EO (I thought there was more in the bottle than there really was... I was 1g shy of what I was planning for the batch, and had some other blending ideas that will have to wait until I get more. lol) I soaped warm, with a 33% lye solution and it came to trace fairly quickly for me, even with it being 90% OO. I'm trying to get it to gel, and between soaping warm, being a warmer day than previous soapmaking days, and the heating pad underneath the mold, I'm hoping it works...

And if this doesn't work as dental soap, well... Then I'll have a low-SF really tingly bastile. lol


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## Bubli

alaskazimm said:


> I've used 100% OO soap sliver for brushing now for about 2 months (used Pink Grapefruit EO) and I don't get a soapy taste. In fact there isn't much of a taste at all to me.
> On the other hand, high CO soaps taste terrible to me when doing the zap test. So I'm pretty sure (and have read elsewhere this is the case) that it's the CO that gives the bad taste we all remember from our childhood.



I 2nd the motion! I too use co oil in my tooth soap, but I make it 15%castor,30%co and 55%oo(like a basic shampoo bar). When its cured and gated I mix in baking soda and add many drops of thieves oil blend. Tastes and smells great and is VERY effective.


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## Lady_A

dudeitsashley said:


> So I just whipped up a batch yesterday using the 90% olive oil and the 10% cocoa butter with a superfat of 3%. My thought process is that I can grate up a bar and mix it with baking soda to get the whitening action. If I end up liking the dental soap I want to try adding xylitol to the next batch because I read that it denies plaque bacteria, which can't be a bad thing.



Any idea how much xylitol to add?
And where would one purchase it?
Thanks


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## cm4bleenmb

LunaSkye said:


> What about using CO with baking soda, xylitol, and an EO's.



You should not need a preservative if there is no water, but bear in mind that you are limited to the shelf life of the individual ingredients. Research any EOs that you want to use to make sure you understand their properties and that you use a grade that will be safe if it's ingested. 

I make mine in small batches--about two months worth. I love the way it makes my mouth feel and my dentist says it's working great. My paste is a CO base and has baking soda, salt, xylitol, bentonite clay and EOs plus I add a little OO to keep it liquid. I put it into those sqeezeable travel tubes and it works okay but is very dependent on room temp so I am intrigued by the idea of doing a soap, especially the idea of a liquid one that could be squeezed out similar to the tootpaste.

Also, to respond the the quote used in your post, grapefruit seed extract is not a preservative.


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## smeetree

Anyone know (generally speaking) where an OO based dental soap would rank on the abrasiveness scale? The scale helps determine how safe it is for your enamel.



DiddlyO said:


> a remineralising toothpaste



This is what I need. So yours is a toothpaste not a soap?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman

Just OO?  I would think it is okay.  Even baking powder is under the limit for abrasion (as you have read earlier on this thread) so I wouldn't see OO doing much to damage the enamel


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## Lindy

Olive oil soap does not damage the enamel as there is nothing in it to scratch your teeth.


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