# Envious, jealous & (a little) frustrated.



## TVivian (Aug 29, 2013)

So, there is a soap shop near me, their soaps are gorgeous, and beautiful, and colorful. They're handmade and from what I can tell (by reading their website) they use only essential oils to scent their products. The scents are so amazing and strong! I have 2 bars in my bathroom right now and I can smell them all the way into my bedroom. What are they doing that I'm not? I'm using plenty of essential oils in my recipes about 1oz ppo. Even the fragrance oils I've used don't smell as strong as their soaps. And another thing, many of their soaps have very distinct vanilla fragrance notes.. but no brown discoloring!  I just very much want my fragrances to "stick"... Thank you for letting me vent 


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## Marilyna (Aug 29, 2013)

Care to share the website? I'd like to look at their stuff. What are their other ingredients? 
I don't know and I'd love to find out what they're doing.


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## TVivian (Aug 29, 2013)

Here it is. Tell me what you think.. I wish you could smell it over the phone/computer, it's divine! 

http://soaptopia.com/soaps?xtr=gawsl&gclid=CKKYi5OKo7kCFRDZQgodah8AEA


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## CaraCara (Aug 29, 2013)

They are beautiful, that's for sure. Could they be melt and pour? I find M&P holds the scent better and for longer because you add it afterwards.


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## dagmar88 (Aug 29, 2013)

CaraCara said:


> They are beautiful, that's for sure. *Could they be melt and pour?* I find M&P holds the scent better and for longer because you add it afterwards.




They are.


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## TVivian (Aug 29, 2013)

CaraCara said:


> They are beautiful, that's for sure. Could they be melt and pour? I find M&P holds the scent better and for longer because you add it afterwards.



I've really checked them out and they don't appear to be M&P (but I'm no expert)  They look and feel like CP soap. Some of them seem to have a thin layer of transparent M&P only over the top, or drizzled into the CP before it sets. Does that make sense? I could be way off. Maybe I'll be nosey and ask some questions when I go in there tomorrow. 


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## TVivian (Aug 29, 2013)

Well if they are at least that makes me feel a bit better. I'd still love to know what they use to scent them *sigh* .. 


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## dagmar88 (Aug 29, 2013)

TVivian said:


> I've really checked them out and they don't appear to be M&P (but I'm no expert)  *They look* and feel *like CP soap*.



To me, they don't.  Compare them to Lush soap.

http://www.lushusa.com/Soap/soap,en_US,sc.html

 I can't take people who are making soap with love listed as an ingredient instead of providing a proper inci seriously anyway.
The "natural" "handmade" and "small batches" are a direct copy of Lush's advertising too.


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## pamielynn (Aug 29, 2013)

May I ask why you'd WANT your soap to smell so strongly? Isn't that what candles are for?


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## TVivian (Aug 29, 2013)

Haha good point! They (lush)  sure do smell good though don't they? I just REALLY want to believe I can get that much goodness into my homemade CP soap... It's the one thing that is super frustrating. I'm happy with the soaps I've made so far. The texture and shapes have turned out good with great lather and no disaster batches (hope i didn't just jinx myself) But the scents just aren't there how I want them.  

I'll just keep hoping as I wait for my latest order FO's to show up on my doorstep! 


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## Marilyna (Aug 29, 2013)

I also thought by looking they might be M&P.  I've noticed my MP seems much stronger smelling-and with using half the FO!  I'm switching!  Lol.  Also loving the beauty of my Mp.  I wonder if they're also using more scent than we usually do.


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## TVivian (Aug 29, 2013)

pamielynn said:


> May I ask why you'd WANT your soap to smell so strongly? Isn't that what candles are for?



I guess it just makes me happy and I like that I can smell it after the shower on my skin? Maybe it's just me. .. 


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## TVivian (Aug 29, 2013)

Marilyna said:


> I also thought by looking they might be M&P.  I've noticed my MP seems much stronger smelling-and with using half the FO!  I'm switching!  Lol.  Also loving the beauty of my Mp.  I wonder if they're also using more scent than we usually do.



 Ha! I was wondering that too, but I'm nervous to use more scent than is recommended. I'd feel so bad if I gave someone soap that irritated their skin! 


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## eyebright (Aug 29, 2013)

I used the recommended usage on FOs and I too, find them not as strong in my CP soaps either.


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## Marilyna (Aug 29, 2013)

Yes, I wasn't advocating using more FO than recommended, just wondering if they do. I agree with you, though--I like strong scents.


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## TVivian (Aug 29, 2013)

Marilyna said:


> Yes, I wasn't advocating using more FO than recommended, just wondering if they do. I agree with you, though--I like strong scents.



I knew what you meant  Well, I'm going to do some more research and figure this one out! 


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## Marilyna (Aug 29, 2013)

How do they lather?  My MP doesn't lather quite as nicely as my CP.


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## sistrum (Aug 29, 2013)

You can always just make a solid perfume with the scents you like best.  It's as easy as lip balm you just can't use it your lips.


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## la-rene (Aug 29, 2013)

I was going to comment that they say they make cp soap on the website, but there are soaps with clear elements and none of their bars state that they use sugar and alcohol, which I was under the impression, is needed to make clear soap.  So, I don't know! 

 Maybe they had their soap base created for them and then use it as a melt and pour. Or maybe they make clear soap and don't consider listing those ingredients.  I noticed they are only stating the oils that they use, not all of the ingredients. 

But, I do think they are super cute!  She is a lucky woman to have a shop down there in Venice.  

Here is a video about it.  [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4SFIVUoyKo[/ame]

According to the video there are no chemicals used in her products.  She seems pretty open about it.  (sooo totally jealous too. )

Edited to add:  I bet they are adding E/O on the high side of the recommended amount.


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## FGOriold (Aug 29, 2013)

Probably the easiest way to determine if they are melt and pour is to melt one (or part of one since you said you purchased some) down.  A melt and pour will melt easily - cold process, not so much.

Also, SFIC will custom make melt and pour base for you based on your oil preference.


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## jenneelk (Aug 29, 2013)

I don't understand why Lush does handmade soap with SLS.. just doesn't make sense to me and sounds like an oxymoron. 
Soaptopia has ingredients that make up CP (do you really use Palm oil i M&P? I haven't) but has no Lye or saponified oils. And that rainbow one just screams M&P.
Anyone know for sure what it is? 

Sounds like they are maybe not labeling correctly or using more scent then they should? Even when I scent my M&P like it should be it's never super strong.


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## 100%Natural (Aug 29, 2013)

All natural is a stretch from the looks of those.  As beautiful as they are, they are not entirely natural.  I have yet to see truly all natural soap with colouring and transparency like those on that site.  They're failing to list the colourants used.  It's a shame the masses won't realize the wool is being pulled over their eyes.


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## TVivian (Aug 29, 2013)

FGOriold said:


> Probably the easiest way to determine if they are melt and pour is to melt one (or part of one since you said you purchased some) down.  A melt and pour will melt easily - cold process, not so much.
> 
> Also, SFIC will custom make melt and pour soap for you.





 this was a good idea! So I took the Soaptopia bar of Rozilla and cut a corner off of the bottom and put it in the microwave. After about 15 seconds it started foaming up and I stopped it at 20. It got cloudy and gummy.. Not pretty, and not at all like M&P. 


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## TVivian (Aug 29, 2013)

so them I sliced off of just the top and after 5 seconds it melted down smoothly! So I think it is as I suspected. The main body is CP while the top and inner swirls are M&P ... What I know for sure is that my kitchen smells HEAVENLY. I mean just really really HEAVENLY.. Roses and vanilla, it's amazing and I wish you all were here haha!  And it lathers perfectly.. I'm jealous of whatever she does. 


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## FGOriold (Aug 29, 2013)

That was my first thought - a combination of CP and melt and pour for some, straight melt and pour for others (like the rainbow looking one).  I have a few bars that I add melt and pour components to the tops of them for decoration.


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## TVivian (Aug 29, 2013)

jenneelk said:


> I don't understand why Lush does handmade soap with SLS.. just doesn't make sense to me and sounds like an oxymoron.
> Soaptopia has ingredients that make up CP (do you really use Palm oil i M&P? I haven't) but has no Lye or saponified oils. And that rainbow one just screams M&P.
> Anyone know for sure what it is?
> 
> Sounds like they are maybe not labeling correctly or using more scent then they should? Even when I scent my M&P like it should be it's never super strong.



At the very least I agree it has added coloring. What else would create this bright red/pink? 


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## paillo (Aug 29, 2013)

Looks like glycerine soap to me. They're cagey about their ingredients, so hard to tell if they're a formulated M&P base or handmade. I'd be brave and ask! They are pretty, and I do agree that scents tend to really stick in glycerine soaps. Don't give up! Your soaps will be unique and different from theirs!


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## neeners (Aug 29, 2013)

I can't really stand Lush products.  it's SO pungent.  the smell stays in my nostrils for hours, and it drives me insane.  it doesn't smell very natural either.....  I like my soaps smelling like real things!


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## TVivian (Aug 29, 2013)

neeners said:


> I can't really stand Lush products.  it's SO pungent.  the smell stays in my nostrils for hours, and it drives me insane.  it doesn't smell very natural either.....  I like my soaps smelling like real things!



I agree.  These are MUCH better than lush fir sure. And I agree that her ingredient list is suspect. Her fragrances are beautiful tho and natural.. I'd love  to know exactly what they are. Oh well.. Something to work toward!☺


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## pamielynn (Aug 29, 2013)

Honey I Washed The Kids is LUSH's most popular scent and to me it smells horrible!! to each his/her own, of course. I like to scent as lightly as I can get away with, since we are bombarded with artificial fragrances from everything we touch these days


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## TVivian (Aug 29, 2013)

pamielynn said:


> Honey I Washed The Kids is LUSH's most popular scent and to me it smells horrible!! to each his/her own, of course. I like to scent as lightly as I can get away with, since we are bombarded with artificial fragrances from everything we touch these days



You'd love my soap then.. I can't get anything to stay scented!  


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## MKRainville (Aug 29, 2013)

dagmar88 said:


> To me, they don't.  Compare them to Lush soap.
> 
> http://www.lushusa.com/Soap/soap,en_US,sc.html
> 
> ...



I've been looking all over the lush website. Where does this copy it?  Isn't what we do (home soapers) small batch, handmade and natural?


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## pahbi (Aug 29, 2013)

I can't seem to get my EOs to really come through that strongly in soap either.

If I cool my lye before adding it to the oils, that seems to help a bit by not going over the flashpoint of the EO.  And adding EO just seconds before pouring helps.

As a experiment just to see what happens, I made some hot process soap, and WOW did that make a difference with the EO.

But the hot process was so time consuming, I decided to just go back to CP.

Its possible they are doing unscented cold process soap, then rebatching and adding EO.

- P


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## TVivian (Aug 29, 2013)

pahbi said:


> I can't seem to get my EOs to really come through that strongly in soap either.
> 
> If I cool my lye before adding it to the oils, that seems to help a bit by not going over the flashpoint of the EO.  And adding EO just seconds before pouring helps.
> 
> ...



It's all a possibility! if that's the case I would love to know then, how they get the rebatched soap so smooth and silky. So much to learn.. 




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## MKRainville (Aug 29, 2013)

dagmar88 said:


> They are.



They look like high quality MP.  You have to look very closely, but my guess is MP.


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## jenneelk (Aug 29, 2013)

After the melt test it seems that one was a combo of both. Likely they do two kinds because I just don't see how a few of them are CP. Again that rainbow bar is just so perfect. Could do if you set each layer I guess but IDK.. others seem to look like M&P too.

Guess at the end of the day if the ingredients list is honest and it makes for a nice bar.. who really cares what it is?


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## jblaney (Aug 30, 2013)

Several months back, this store was advertising CP soap making in their studio at their store.  They also had an EO class.  I was going to take a class last year, but missed it.   I do think their soaps mix CP and melt & pour, but they don't mention it anywhere.


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## Second Impression (Aug 30, 2013)

Hmm...anyone who claims to be using really high end eo's like jasmine and rose to scent their soaps and then not marking those soaps up appropriately...well that screams FO and a seller who is either lying about their ingredients, doesn't know the difference, or is cheating themselves out of a fair profit. The lack of full ingredient lists always makes me suspicious. 

Maybe I'm just paranoid ;-) 

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## jblaney (Aug 30, 2013)

How are they getting a natural vanilla that doesn't discolor and is strong enough to withstand the saponification process?  Is there a way to test for synthetic fragrance?


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## jenneelk (Aug 30, 2013)

Likely using a FO modifier and a LOT of fragrance. But think that latter part has been established. LOL


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## dagmar88 (Aug 30, 2013)

TVivian said:


> View attachment 3437
> It got cloudy and gummy.. Not pretty, and not at all like M&P.



 Not like cp either.

The Lush base is kind of 'in between'. 

_The new base she has created combines sunflower oil, rapeseed oil  and  coconut oil with sodium hydroxide and water, mixed together and  boiled  to accelerate the saponification process. Salt is added to  separate the  soap from the mixture, and the finished soap is then  extruded to produce  "dry noodles".

_http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/may/30/lucy-siegle-innovator-lush-cosmetics-war-palm-oil 



She's marketing her soap as just soap. This avoids having too disclose the ingredients. Giving only half a list is clearly misleading to customers. Probably clever for the short term; but not something to be jealous of.


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## dagmar88 (Aug 30, 2013)

jblaney said:


> How are they getting a natural vanilla that doesn't discolor and is strong enough to withstand the saponification process?  Is there a way to test for synthetic fragrance?



Not unless you want to spend big bucks on someone else's product. And synthetic fragrance components are added to the bulk of EO's too.

The "natural" non discoloring vanilla can't be. There's no way around but vanilla stabilizers and that's not what I consider to be natural. It could be natural vanilla of course, just that the rest is not. 
But I don't think so, by the strength of the scents.
I don't consider handmade soap with NaOH or KOH, or any soap base natural anyway. 
"Handmade" and "natural" are very much subjective.


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## Second Impression (Aug 30, 2013)

There is a way to do a natural vanilla-like note that doesn't discolor, at least in a blend. Peru Balsam or Benzoin come close, both also act as fairly strong fixatives. But they're also common skin sensitizers so not always the best choice for that elusive CP stable vanilla-like scent. 

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## sistrum (Aug 30, 2013)

According to here http://integritybotanicals.com/brands/Soaptopia all their colors are from plant based pigments?!


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## dagmar88 (Aug 30, 2013)

sistrum said:


> According to here http://integritybotanicals.com/brands/Soaptopia all their colors are from plant based pigments?!




Argh. And not just the pigments :crazy:


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## judymoody (Aug 30, 2013)

Do not waste your time envying this site.  I looked it over and I am very skeptical about many of the claims.

First, most of the soaps are pretty ordinary looking, perfectly respectable soap but nothing to sigh over.

I will never ever buy soap from anybody who lists "love" as an ingredient.  Ick

I am pretty sure that this person uses a variety of premade bases - some transparent and some which resemble CP or mixes M&P for decoration and uses CP for the balance (as others have already commented).

However, a soap that includes transparent soap topping cannot be represented as "alcohol free" to the best of my knowledge as transparent M&P typically contains some sort of alcohol. (I don't do M&P so I may be wrong here)

There is no such thing as coconut essential oil as described here.  Busted!

http://soaptopia.com/inc/sdetail/132/35634

To the best of my knowledge real vanilla (she claims she uses Madagascar vanilla in one of the descriptions) will brown soap.  If she's using a stabilizer there goes her "all natural" claims.

There's a yuzu soap - anybody ever price yuzu EO?  It costs the earth.  She doesn't say that she uses yuzu EO but it's implied.

No way those colors are natural.  Neon pink and blue do not appear in nature.

Personally, overly scented soaps give me a headache.  I agree with the earlier post about solid perfume or perfume oils scented with EOs as a viable alternative to having that scent linger on the skin after bathing. 

Conclusion: be proud of your own soap.  There are some soapmakers whose work I greatly admire.  They don't make false claims and their soaps are genuine works of art.

Rant over.


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## dagmar88 (Aug 30, 2013)

judymoody said:


> To the best of my knowledge real vanilla (she claims she uses Madagascar vanilla in one of the descriptions) will brown soap.  If she's using a stabilizer there goes her "all natural" claims.



The other site stated vanilla "essential oil"  Absolute or, more likely, oleoresin I guess. 
As far as I know those are chemically extracted.


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## Lidyax (Aug 30, 2013)

This might sound like a very dumb question, but what exactly is oleoresin and how is it different from essential oil or absolute?


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## TVivian (Aug 30, 2013)

judymoody said:


> Do not waste your time envying this site.  I looked it over and I am very skeptical about many of the claims.
> 
> First, most of the soaps are pretty ordinary looking, perfectly respectable soap but nothing to sigh over.
> 
> ...



Thumbs up!  


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## dagmar88 (Aug 30, 2013)

Lidyax said:


> This might sound like a very dumb question, but what exactly is oleoresin and how is it different from essential oil or absolute?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Soap Making



Not at all. 

http://spottedhipposoap.blogspot.nl/2011/07/vanilla-essential-oil.html


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## Lidyax (Aug 30, 2013)

dagmar88 said:


> Not at all.
> 
> http://spottedhipposoap.blogspot.nl/2011/07/vanilla-essential-oil.html



Thanks a lot, Dagmar! 


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## dagmar88 (Aug 30, 2013)




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## TVivian (Aug 30, 2013)

dagmar88 said:


> The other site stated vanilla "essential oil"  Absolute or, more likely, oleoresin I guess.
> As far as I know those are chemically extracted.



I have a tiny bottle of vanilla oleoresin.. It cost $17 for 1 dram. There is no way I could afford enough to put that into my soaps. Can you imagine? I'd have to charge my friends twenty dollars a bar haha!  It smells wonderful though! 


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## dagmar88 (Aug 30, 2013)

:Kitten Love:

It's expensive, but it shouldn't be that expensive...


http://www.newdirectionsaromatics.com/vanilla-oleoresin-10-fold-p-367.html


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## TVivian (Aug 30, 2013)

dagmar88 said:


> :Kitten Love:
> 
> It's expensive, but it shouldn't be that expensive...
> 
> ...



Yup.. Got it at an aromatherapy shop in Los Angeles and got ripped off! What can I say.. I'm a sucker for vanilla! 


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## dagmar88 (Aug 30, 2013)

:mrgreen: I'll just stick with my FO's.


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## CaraCara (Aug 30, 2013)

Me too.


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## soapsydaisy (Aug 30, 2013)

Soaptopia was my 1st introduction to hand made soaps. I took my 1st soaping class from them. Their shop smells amazing! She has literally racks of EOs and barrels of base oils in the back, soapers heaven!


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## TVivian (Aug 31, 2013)

soapsydaisy said:


> Soaptopia was my 1st introduction to hand made soaps. I took my 1st soaping class from them. Their shop smells amazing! She has literally racks of EOs and barrels of base oils in the back, soapers heaven!



I was there today. It's just an amazing shop and I love that you can see them making the products. I could stay there for hours! If I had a store that's just how I'd want it to be. 


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## meeplesoap (Aug 31, 2013)

I stopped in there today with my mil; it is a fun store and I picked her brain. She was honest and very sweet. They make cold process soap and use a purchased natural glycerin base for the accent. They use natural essential oil (though I forgot to ask about Jasmine, it was only available in tiny hearts at $3 per. ) They just opened their sixth store in Japan but they still make everything in their Venice location. I wandered their soap kitchen and left them my own sample (peppermint castile). She was very receptive to another soaper visiting and we talked shop. 

All in all, my feeling was that she is legit.  of course, she's had a successful business for 11 years, so I doubt she needs my approval regardless!


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## samirish (Aug 31, 2013)

So has it been determined if they use any FO's?  I saw she had a coconut soap, is there a coconut eo?  Also, I have to wonder how she gets some of her colors so bright...like the bright pink with out using a colorant.


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## sistrum (Aug 31, 2013)

Remember,  she uses "plant based pigments"

Maybe if my morals let me I could mislead the public and have a store like her.  I really wished I lived closer.  I would love to be able to go there in person.


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## meeplesoap (Aug 31, 2013)

samirish said:


> So has it been determined if they use any FO's?  I saw she had a coconut soap, is there a coconut eo?  Also, I have to wonder how she gets some of her colors so bright...like the bright pink with out using a colorant.



According to the salesgirl,  they used to just do plant colorants, they have added ultramarine blue and pink, and she thought micas also. That would make more sense.


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## PinkCupcake (Aug 31, 2013)

If they have added artificial ingredients, they need to update the wording on their website. I have SUCH strong feelings about honesty in labeling, and this sort of thing really gets to me!


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## samirish (Sep 1, 2013)

I was looking at this soap http://www.soaptopia.com/inc/sdetail/132/23487 and this one http://www.soaptopia.com/inc/sdetail/132/512 and I would love to know how to get the bright red swirl in this http://www.soaptopia.com/inc/sdetail/132/510 by only using plant based colors.  I dont see micas or oxides listed anywhere on their web site.


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## innerdiva73 (Sep 1, 2013)

samirish said:


> I was looking at this soap http://www.soaptopia.com/inc/sdetail/132/23487 and this one http://www.soaptopia.com/inc/sdetail/132/512 and I would love to know how to get the bright red swirl in this http://www.soaptopia.com/inc/sdetail/132/510 by only using plant based colors.  I dont see micas or oxides listed anywhere on their web site.



She is definitely using FD&C dyes.  That looks like Neon orange and a Lipstick red colorant mixed.


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## sistrum (Sep 1, 2013)

Could someone that lives in the area just go ask? I'm sure everyone here would like to know.  I know I do.


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## Second Impression (Sep 1, 2013)

samirish said:


> I was looking at this soap http://www.soaptopia.com/inc/sdetail/132/23487 and this one http://www.soaptopia.com/inc/sdetail/132/512 and I would love to know how to get the bright red swirl in this http://www.soaptopia.com/inc/sdetail/132/510 by only using plant based colors.  I dont see micas or oxides listed anywhere on their web site.



The green could be plant based but I doubt it since they have a tendency to fade or morph over time. I would never sell a vividly colored soap I know is going to turn a nasty shade of brown in a few months (or the moment it's exposed to direct sunlight as has happened with every botanical green I've tried). I could see a deep reddish pink being natural with clays and infusions but seeing the artificial hot pinks on the same website, I would wager oxides and micas instead. The transparent red swirl is a M&P soap curl embedded in the loaf. I'm a cynic, but I believe any soaper who really does use botanical colorants would list them, they have fantastic label appeal and most consumers appreciate full disclosure. 

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## soapsydaisy (Sep 5, 2013)

When I took the soaping class a few years back she still used all plant based colorants. She suggested playing with clays, flowers and spices for color. 


 I met her when she first started her company (I don't know her well or anything like that) in the early 2000s. She started with a lot of farmers markets and shows. She gave me my first bar of handmade soap and started this crazy addiction. Now her soaps are in all of the west coast Whole Foods stores. 

I'd be envious of her too, she has a beautiful shop and a huge following.


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## cerelife (Sep 6, 2013)

Those are some certainly some lovely soaps and you aren't the first person to have a question about them. As I was browsing the website I saw this soap and remembered seeing the same pic on this forum a while back:
http://soaptopia.com/inc/sdetail/132/195
I'll go searching for the link in just a minute...I think it was a question about the "honey" in the soap and was resolved with the answer that it was most likely a combo of CP and M&P, but I can't really remember. 
Personally I don't have an issue with CP vs M&P. They both have their place in the soaping world.
What I do take issue with are the claims of "all natural/synthetic-free" and ..."the finest Pure Essential Oils (40+ flavors)" on the home page.
And like JudyMoody mentioned, I've yet to find a Coconut EO, nor have I ever seen a Chocolate EO...but she has soaps with these scents!? And I paid $40 for a 2oz bottle of Vetiver EO (for my own personal use), so she's seriously cutting into her profit margin if she actually uses this EO as she claims in this soap:
http://soaptopia.com/inc/sdetail/132/8129
Granted, she sells in volume, so I guess it might be feasible. But after looking over her website, I've gotta admit I'm kind of doubtful.
And BTW, don't get me wrong; I use both EO's and FO's. Sometimes I just want a particular scent, and if it doesn't occur in nature, I'm perfectly fine with using an FO! But I certainly don't represent myself as making "all-natural, synthetic-free" products. JMHO, but there's a market for all of us without fudging on the details


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## cerelife (Sep 6, 2013)

Here's the link:
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=33276&highlight=orange+glad+honey
It IS a pretty cool soap!


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## TVivian (Sep 6, 2013)

And that is one of my favorites because the scent of natural honey is so present! I just made my first honey soap yesterday and it doesn't smell of honey. At.all. 


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## cerelife (Sep 6, 2013)

Girl, I'll be glad to send you a bar of my "Honey Bee" soap! I use Peak's Wild Mountain Honey FO and (to me, anyway) it smells just like my uncle's honey from his apiary in North Georgia...he loves it too and agrees that it smells almost exactly like his bees' honey!
This FO is super-strong...I actually use less of it than other FO's because it will knock your socks off!!
PM me if you want a bar


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## cerelife (Sep 6, 2013)

And YES, I DO use my uncle's honey in my recipe...gotta have that "home" connection


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## TVivian (Sep 6, 2013)

cerelife said:


> Girl, I'll be glad to send you a bar of my "Honey Bee" soap! I use Peak's Wild Mountain Honey FO and (to me, anyway) it smells just like my uncle's honey from his apiary in North Georgia...he loves it too and agrees that it smells almost exactly like his bees' honey!
> This FO is super-strong...I actually use less of it than other FO's because it will knock your socks off!!
> PM me if you want a bar



Thank you!!!  That's such great info I'll definitely be ordering some of that! Very nice of you to offer me a bar of soap! Now to figure out how to message.. Haha..


Sent from my iPhone using Soap Making


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## Lion Of Judah (Sep 7, 2013)

i have read all of this and must say it is interesting , right down to every dotted " i " and every crossed " t " .  i myself gravitated to the (that) soap in wanting to make something combining CP and translucent soap. As of now my mind is going in my own direction and where is goes will surely be in the direction of a soap i can be proud to call my own.


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## samirish (Sep 7, 2013)

I dont understand how she can sell at wholefoods.  If she is using fo's like the coconut or the chocolate and if she is using red dyes in some on them...well that is strictly prohibited if you want to be a vendor at whole foods.

Something does not compute...


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## judymoody (Sep 7, 2013)

I've seen plenty of M&P with obviously artificial colors and scents at my local Whole Foods, whatever their rules are supposed to be.


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## cerelife (Sep 10, 2013)

TV, I sent you a message Just reply with your address and I'll send you some soap.


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## TVivian (Sep 10, 2013)

cerelife said:


> TV, I sent you a message Just reply with your address and I'll send you some soap.



I sent a reply but not sure if it went through or not! Let me know


Sent from my iPhone using Soap Making


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## Soap Techniques (Oct 25, 2013)

cerelife said:


> What I do take issue with are the claims of "all natural/synthetic-free" and ..."the finest Pure Essential Oils (40+ flavors)" on the home page.
> And like JudyMoody mentioned, I've yet to find a Coconut EO, nor have I ever seen a Chocolate EO...but she has soaps with these scents!?


She sells some soaps with _Aloe Vera Essential Oil_ as well. 

http://soaptopia.com/inc/sdetail/132/493

http://soaptopia.com/inc/sdetail/132/486


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## maya (Oct 26, 2013)

Haha. Nvermind. It was already pointed out.


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## seven (Dec 8, 2013)

Fata Morgana said:


> She sells some soaps with _Aloe Vera Essential Oil_ as well.
> 
> http://soaptopia.com/inc/sdetail/132/493
> 
> http://soaptopia.com/inc/sdetail/132/486



I am having a hard time believing, that after 11 yrs of soaping, she still doesnt know her EOs. 

So why on earth she made such (false) claims through her choice of words?

I'm sorry, but no matter how good her soaps are, if she can't be honest about the ingredients, all interest from me is lost...

Why can't she just categorized her soaps like some do, 'natural' ones and fun ones (artificial colors, fragrance, mp). There's a market for both . Some ppl dont care about EOs and bloody plant based pigments, they like colourful soaps with nice fragrances. 

Okay, /end rant


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 9, 2013)

I think the issue is that a lot of customers have no idea about it all!

Bear in mind that there are often facts that need to be 'massaged' in the name of marketing, especially around such terms as natural, organic and so on.

Some of the claims do seem to be total lies, which is mad considering that it's easy to get pulled up on it.


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## StealBeautiful (Dec 17, 2013)

They are beautiful so I say use it as inspiration. Experiment everyday with small batches and sooner or later yours will be just as beautiful or even more so.


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## green soap (Apr 5, 2014)

I just came from one of the Pasadena Whole foods and had a chance to check out these soaps 'in person'.   

I realize beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, but to me these soaps are far from beautiful.  They are borderline acceptable as far as looks and texture, nothing I would aspire to.   They are not labeled, and the general label (not on the soaps but on the display area) only says meaningless things like "natural', 'animal friendly' (what is this?) and 'vegetable oils'.  This could be soy and canola as far as I could tell.   

They had the rainbow soap, and after working with plant based colors for a few years, there is NO WAY these are plant based colorants.   

They look like either CP or good smooth HP with a top layer of MP.  I tend to think they are HP, and that they are using MP to cover the usually ugly HP tops.   Good idea, why not?   But then why not disclose the ingredients?  then again, why do it?  most of the public is not savvy about the differences, and soap is so weakly regulated in the USA that ingredient labels are not required.  

Now on the scent.  I have to clarify that I am picky, and I only like EO blends for myself.  I do not like bathing with a soap that has FOs.  If I did not make soap to sell, I would only buy vanilla FO (for my sweetie).  So therefore I can smell an FO from a mile away.  Of their 5-6 choices there was only one that could be EOs, the rest were FOs. I thought they smelled horrible, they had this plasticky perfumey stink.  

This might seem conceited but the excursion had the effect of making me feel so much better about my own soaps.   I sell soap at a tiny market (we hope it grows) and I get so many compliments about how beautiful they are and how heavenly they smell.  I am used to my soaps, no big deal, but now that I see what they might be comparing them to, well....I agree, and thanks for noticing!

The one thing I envy them is their business model.  They are doing quite well and I am struggling on my second year of business, wondering if there will be a third.


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