# Reaching trace very quickly



## Megan (Jul 11, 2018)

Is it normal when soaping to reach trace (stick blending) in 30 seconds? I am using 25% OO, 25%RBO, 30%CO, 10% shea butter, and 10% castor oil. I just kind of came up with this ratio...and I'm wondering if something is off. I know shea can speed up trace, but I tried to lower it, because I had a bad time yesterday with trace as well. The castor oil is high as well and I'm considering lowering that  to 5% and bringing my soft oils up, but soapcalc values suck when I do that. 

Today I wanted to do a simple two layer project, and my other ingredients accelerate trace as well, so once I reached a very light trace (in like 20 seconds, of pulsing, not continuous) I tried to add everything and barely salvaged my batch. I got the two layers in, but they won't turn out because of all the gloopyness.

Also, could the fact that it was a small batch have an effect on this? It was only 1 lb.


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## KristaY (Jul 11, 2018)

I stopped using castor oil because of the trace problems. Every time I wanted to do a new swirl or more time consuming design, it went to crap. Once I omitted the castor, everything went back to normal. At least lower the castor to 5% and see if that makes a difference for you.


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## dibbles (Jul 12, 2018)

I would also lower the castor. I don't think I've ever used more than 5% and if I want to buy a little extra time I'll use 2-3%, or leave it out. Are you using regular OO or pomace? Pomace speeds trace for me. If you are using clay, activated charcoal, a fragrance that moves or soaping too warm that can also contribute.


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## Megan (Jul 12, 2018)

dibbles said:


> I would also lower the castor. I don't think I've ever used more than 5% and if I want to buy a little extra time I'll use 2-3%, or leave it out. Are you using regular OO or pomace? Pomace speeds trace for me. If you are using clay, activated charcoal, a fragrance that moves or soaping too warm that can also contribute.


I used regular OO, and all of my other ingredients do accelerate, but I added them after reaching trace. Also, I've been soaping around 100. I could wait longer for everything to cool. I do know some people soap at room temp. Maybe this could help me... But most of the recipes I've read say to soap around 100-120


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## dibbles (Jul 12, 2018)

100 should be fine. Lower the castor or leave it out of a small batch and see if that helps. Don’t worry too much about the soap calc numbers. Which number(s) are you concerned about?


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## penelopejane (Jul 12, 2018)

Megan said:


> I used regular OO, and all of my other ingredients do accelerate, but I added them after reaching trace. Also, I've been soaping around 100. I could wait longer for everything to cool. I do know some people soap at room temp. Maybe this could help me... But most of the recipes I've read say to soap around 100-120


What other ingredients are you using?


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## CaraBou (Jul 12, 2018)

Megan said:


> Is it normal when soaping to reach trace (stick blending) in 30 seconds?... Also, could the fact that it was a small batch have an effect on this? It was only 1 lb.



Yes, absolutely.  Thirty seconds of stick blending is like a run-away train to me.  One pound batches are my norm, and I've gotten to the point where I use a whisk or a mini-blender/frother, especially if I'm doing designs that simply need emulsion or very light trace.  A batch that small, especially when subdivided among separate colors, traces much quicker than my next size up (2.5 lbs). Sometimes I choose the larger mold just to have more leeway for trace - seriously!

I tend to whisk in pulses (like when stick blending) as I incrementally add colorants, fragrances, etc., and as I move from one batter split to the next.  I almost always add fragrances last, as they often accelerate soap.  

Occasionally I find that a whisk or frother is too slow for my subdivided 1 lb batch, and I will use a stick blender. But that's rare.  I thank LionPrincess for properly introducing me to the whisk 

As for castor oil, I almost always use 5%, and sometimes I use a similar percentage of butters.  I think all of these contribute to trace. Temp does too, but 100'ish is reasonable.


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## DeeAnna (Jul 12, 2018)

It's best to stick blend less and hand stir more. As a beginner, I was stick blending way too much and my soap was getting to trace far to fast as a result. 

Nowadays, my total stick blending time per batch might be 10 seconds or less. I don't SB the whole time right up front either -- it's spread out over 5 minutes or so in pulses of a 1-2 seconds each.


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## Megan (Jul 12, 2018)

penelopejane said:


> What other ingredients are you using?


My fragrance oil, pink clay, and charcoal. Again, they were all added after I reached that trace the first time. So the initial question was for just the bulk with no additives. After I added everything else, it went to a thick trace in the blink of an eye....but I kind of knew that would happen, I think it was exacerbated by the fact that I reached trace so easily, so something in my bulk oils is off I think. 

I will try to lower castor oil. I want to replace it with either sweet almond, or more OO or RBO. I may also lower shea a little to see. I want something a little more workable before I have to pour.



dibbles said:


> 100 should be fine. Lower the castor or leave it out of a small batch and see if that helps. Don’t worry too much about the calc numbers. Which number(s) are you concerned about?


I forget the exact ratios/numbers, but I kept having issues with the iodine number for one. I heard that above range can lead to DOS.


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## shunt2011 (Jul 12, 2018)

I too think it's the Castor.  Drop it to 5%.  Should make a difference.  And SB less.  I too only SB 10-15 seconds total.  Rest is stirring.


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## dixiedragon (Jul 12, 2018)

What are your soaping temps? Try lowering them. Looks like the melting point of cocoa butter is 93F, so I think you'd be safe to soap around 100.


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## Megan (Jul 12, 2018)

dixiedragon said:


> What are your soaping temps? Try lowering them. Looks like the melting point of cocoa butter is 93F, so I think you'd be safe to soap around 100.


Soaping temps lye water was 140, oils were like 80 after I combined the hard and soft oils, so I split the difference. When I combined it was around 100.

I think I need to work on timing for the lye water to cool and the oils to warm too....so that they are closer together in temp. I'm wondering if just letting everything come to room temp is a bad idea


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## DeeAnna (Jul 12, 2018)

IMO, if the initial batter temp is around 100 F, that should be fine. 

You don't have to match the temps of the lye solution and the fats before mixing them together as long as your temps are safely in the cool to warmish range (in other words, the temps are cool to pleasantly warm when you touch the containers with your hand). 

Paying strict attention to the temps of the fats and lye solution is more critical when a person mixes very hot (170+ F) fats with lye solution that is cooler than that. The rapid heating of the lye solution can create steam and dangerous spattering and spraying. This is just like when a person puts cold chicken parts in a deep fat fryer, except you're dealing with concentrated NaOH solution, not chicken.

But that's not what you're talking about, and you're plenty safe.

Stick blend less. Learn what "emulsion" is and mix your additives in at emulsion, not at obvious trace, even if it's light trace. Adjust your recipe as you see fit to make it into a slower moving recipe. And simple experience will also help. Sometimes only subtle changes are what's needed to solve problems like yours.


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## Megan (Jul 12, 2018)

DeeAnna said:


> Stick blend less. Learn what "emulsion" is and mix your additives in at emulsion, not at obvious trace, even if it's light trace. Adjust your recipe as you see fit to make it into a slower moving recipe. And simple experience will also help. Sometimes only subtle changes are what's needed to solve problems like yours.



Oh yeah, I know boiling water in oil is a bad idea, especially caustic water!

I have been trying to stop at emulsion, and I think it is just an experience thing, but it's such a thin line between emulsion and that ultra thin trace when it happens so quickly. I will probably finesse the recipe as well so I have a few seconds more leeway.


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## penelopejane (Jul 12, 2018)

Megan said:


> Oh yeah, I know boiling water in oil is a bad idea, especially caustic water!
> 
> I have been trying to stop at emulsion, and I think it is just an experience thing, but it's such a thin line between emulsion and that ultra thin trace when it happens so quickly. I will probably finesse the recipe as well so I have a few seconds more leeway.



Watch this video on emulsion by saponista


The thing is to just reach emulsion. Mixing in you clay or AC into the oils makes it more difficult to see emulsion. Both AC and clay will accelerate the process and you might need to only half the amount of SB or none at all if adding them. 

Time will take you past emulsion and hand blending colours later will do the same. 

You are right it is a very fine line but once you learn that it will get mixed in fine without SB for ages you will be fine. 

But every recipe is different. So don’t assume recipe with CO and AC will trace the same without AC or the same as pure OO. Take really good notes each time you make a recipe and you”look be fine.


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## Alfa_Lazcares (Jul 13, 2018)

I make small batches like that and even smaller and my total stick blending is like 5 seconds. When i read that you do 20 seconds I was thinking that one of my small batches would be gelatin at 20 seconds. 
I literally pulse for like a second at the bottom and another second at the topish (not super high or you’ll have flying oils) and still with the stick blender off.


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## penelopejane (Jul 13, 2018)

Yes each recipe is different.


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## CaraBou (Jul 18, 2018)

Just for the record, that is newbie 



penelopejane said:


> Watch this video on emulsion by saponista





penelopejane said:


>


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## penelopejane (Jul 18, 2018)

CaraBou said:


> Just for the record, that is newbie



 I am so sorry. Thanks for correcting me. I’ve made that mistake before. I even tried to search for her name but couldn’t find it except for the YouTube page which says saponista. 

I’m going to have to learn how to bookmark this page so I get it right next time.


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## CaraBou (Jul 19, 2018)

I'm sure she wouldn't be offended, as it's an easy mistake. She'd just be glad you found and re-posted the video to help someone out.  She's a sweetie, like so many others here


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## clownking99 (Jul 26, 2018)

So just stick blend until it’s really well mixed is so you have to do right ? I just blended for 5 minutes then I divided up the soap lye and added 3 separate colors .  By the time I finished pooring all 3 the last bit I had in the cup was really thick


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## DeeAnna (Jul 26, 2018)

Five whole minutes of stick blending? That's waaaaay overkill. In 5 minutes, I might SB a total of 10 seconds, broken into several short bursts.


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## Steve85569 (Jul 26, 2018)

For the OP:
Have you tried adding the clay and fragrance to the lye water before stick blending?
That helps slow trace for me...


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## clownking99 (Jul 26, 2018)

I let lye water and oil rest to room temperature overnight.
And it’s usually  they are both about 75* when I blend

I don’t add fo until after it starts to SAP?
Usually if I stock blend for 30 seconds it’s still really THIN . Does your thicken up really quickly or does that not matter long as it’s evenly blended ?


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## OldHippie (Jul 26, 2018)

clownking99 said:


> I let lye water and oil rest to room temperature overnight.


The lye will slowly lose activity as it combines with the carbon dioxide in the air.  Make sure that you limit this by keeping it covered.  The other issue is keeping the lye safely away from people and pets.


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## Megan (Jul 28, 2018)

Steve85569 said:


> For the OP:
> Have you tried adding the clay and fragrance to the lye water before stick blending?
> That helps slow trace for me...


I might try that, I have not yet, because I thought it might have the opposite effect, especially for the clay


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## Megan (Jul 28, 2018)

clownking99 said:


> I let lye water and oil rest to room temperature overnight.
> And it’s usually  they are both about 75* when I blend
> 
> I don’t add fo until after it starts to SAP?
> Usually if I stock blend for 30 seconds it’s still really THIN . Does your thicken up really quickly or does that not matter long as it’s evenly blended ?


From what I can tell, from the replies,  it all depends on the recipe...I think high shea and high castor oil was the culprit in my case. I've tried several other recipes now without this problem.


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