# First timer here...making seal oil soap



## newtonandpelle (Mar 19, 2020)

I have started soap making primarily because I have some seal oil I rendered down from blubber and wanted to use. In reading up on what seal oil can be used for I came across the idea of soap. Of course there is zero information about the SAP of seal blubber oil so it is going to be a matter of trial and probably error...although I have made 2 batches in a couple of days and they seemed to have turned out. 
I came across a thread on this forum from 2014 where someone was in Alaska and bought some seal oil soap. There was interesting discussion by no relevant information to help in the process of making the soap with essentially an unknown oil.
A user of mink oil locally has expressed interest in the seal oil as a possibly somewhat comparable product although I have no idea what they use the mink oil for. So since none of the soap calculators have seal oil as an option I used mink oil as a substitute along with whatever other oils I had on hand to formulate a recipe with. I ended up using 33% coconut oil, 33% canola oil and 34% seal oil (put into the recipe as mink oil). I added a little lavender oil before pouring into the mould and some lavender flowers for decoration. I used 800g of oil in total which worked well as it fit into a loaf pan. It was cold process (warmish really) and had a good trace after about 10-15 minutes of mixing. I left the first batch in the mold for almost 48 hours (since I was away) and the cut it and racked it to dry. While it felt was a bit soft when I cut it, it was firm enough to slice and still maintain its solid shape. Pretty firm already after only a couple of days drying. Looking around the soap calculators more I found I could formulate a recipe using salmon oil. I am wondering of that might be closer in characteristics to seal oil...cant wait to see how it turns out. My second batch I substituted solid shortening for the canola oils as the calculators tell me the final product will he a harder bar of soap...can't wait to see how they turn out!


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## cmzaha (Mar 19, 2020)

What I found for Seal oil would be KOH 0.192 and NaOH 0.136 taken from this chart for manufacturing varnish https://tinyurl.com/ssc38zt


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## newtonandpelle (Mar 19, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> What I found for Seal oil would be KOH 0.192 and NaOH 0.136 taken from this chart for manufacturing varnish https://tinyurl.com/ssc38zt


Did I mention first timer here?...I'm not even sure what that means. I used 115g of Lye and 304g of water to 800g of oil. That book is about making varnishes...not sure how that is connected to soap making? Any tips or further explanation/insights would be greatly appreciated.


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## shunt2011 (Mar 20, 2020)

newtonandpelle said:


> Did I mention first timer here?...I'm not even sure what that means. I used 115g of Lye and 304g of water to 800g of oil. That book is about making varnishes...not sure how that is connected to soap making? Any tips or further explanation/insights would be greatly appreciated.



No, you didn't mention a first timers.  You really need to do some work reading and learning about SAP values.  It's really pertinent to what you asked.  KOH is Potassium Hydroxide used to make liquid soap and NAOH is Sodium Hydroxide used to make bar soap.   The SAP value is what the lye calculators use to calculate how much lye you need for a batch.

So, since your particular oil isn't listed,  you'll need to go through the lye calculator and fine something that is similar in SAP value and then use that oil.


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## artemis (Mar 20, 2020)

shunt2011 said:


> No, you didn't mention a first timer.



It's in the subject/thread title


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## shunt2011 (Mar 20, 2020)

artemis said:


> It's in the subject/thread title



Duh on me....LOL


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## cmzaha (Mar 20, 2020)

Yes, I did see the "First Timer", but when I was a first-timer I had already done my research and knew what Sap values meant, and how to use the information. I would especially have wanted to know this when using a rather exotic oil. At least I found you the information, and Shari told you what it is used for.  
While your pick of Mink Oil was a good guess Soy Bean Oil would have been right on for the average Sap value.


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## dixiedragon (Mar 20, 2020)

Here is a link to a chart of SAP values:
http://www.soap-making-resource.com/saponification-table.html

The sap value is how much lye it takes to turn the fat into soap. Since you are making bar soap, look at the NaOH column. 

Looks like Avocado Oil is pretty dang close. I'd choose that option.

Unless you have an abundance in seal oil, I'd freeze that and make a few batches of regular soap with non-special ingredients. You'll cry if you end up having to chuck a whole batch in the garbage!


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## cmzaha (Mar 20, 2020)

If using Soapcalc.net Soybean is 0.136 and starts with an S


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## Nona'sFarm (Mar 20, 2020)

Fascinating! So I am just curious, what is the consistency of seal oil. Is it liquid or solid?

Everyone has given you great advice above. Have fun with this new soaping adventure.


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## newtonandpelle (Mar 21, 2020)

shunt2011 said:


> No, you didn't mention a first timers.  You really need to do some work reading and learning about SAP values.  It's really pertinent to what you asked.  KOH is Potassium Hydroxide used to make liquid soap and NAOH is Sodium Hydroxide used to make bar soap.   The SAP value is what the lye calculators use to calculate how much lye you need for a batch.
> 
> So, since your particular oil isn't listed,  you'll need to go through the lye calculator and fine something that is similar in SAP value and then use that oil.



I have done a fair bit of reading regarding SAP values and understand the difference between KOH and NAOH which is how I decided to make hard soap using Lye as opposed to liquid. Given that I couldn't find any information or SAP value for seal oil, I had nothing to compare it to in order to find a similar value for the calculators.



Nona'sFarm said:


> Fascinating! So I am just curious, what is the consistency of seal oil. Is it liquid or solid?
> 
> Everyone has given you great advice above. Have fun with this new soaping adventure.



I am pretty excited that the 2 batches I have had so far seem to have turned out...waiting for them to cure...impatiently

The seal oil is a golden amber colour about the consistency of cold canola oil maybe. The actual seal blubber never freezes or solidifies...even having been buried in snow for a month. I have noticed a little sedimentation in the bottom of some jars that have gotten colder so I would guess that maybe of I put the oil in the freezer it may solidify somewhat. When I figure out how to add pictures to my posts I will show you..


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## Susie (Mar 21, 2020)

Your soap should turn out well.  

I would not, however, be able to use that high of an amount of Coconut Oil (CO), as it would dry my skin.  I would have cut that amount down to about 15% max.  You may want to use a lye calculator to vary the amount of CO and try that recipe against your first bars after 4-6 weeks.  I suggest Soapee.com.


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## newtonandpelle (Mar 21, 2020)

Susie said:


> Your soap should turn out well.
> 
> I would not, however, be able to use that high of an amount of Coconut Oil (CO), as it would dry my skin.  I would have cut that amount down to about 15% max.  You may want to use a lye calculator to vary the amount of CO and try that recipe against your first bars after 4-6 weeks.  I suggest Soapee.com.


Good to know about the coconut oil. Like I said, I just made a recipe based on using the unknown seal oil and whatever else I found in the kitchen. For the second batch I substituted shortening for the canola oil to compare the hardness and a couple of other things (forget what they are without my recipes on hand to look) I will change things up as I go making notes and seeing how things turn out. All just a big adventure and my kitchen is my chemistry lab


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## newtonandpelle (Mar 21, 2020)

Since making the first 2 batches of soap, I have since found a scientific journal entry which gives me a lot of information about different characteristics of seal oil including SAP value and a break down of the fatty acids. This oil was rendered a little differently than mine was but the result would probably be very similar. This document gave Seal oils the SAP value of 180 (presumably KOH). It also broke down the fatty acid composition as follows:  {edited to compare found values for mink oil}
Seal                                                      Mink (SAP 0.1976 KOH, 0.140 NaOH)
Myristic (14:0) = 4.98%                  3.2%
Palmitic (16:0) = 7.44%                  15.7%    
Palmitoleic (16:1) = 19.34%            14.6%
Oleic (18:1) = 27.34%                       50.8%
Linoleic (18:2) = 2.9%                      9.1%
Linolenic (18:3) = 1.3%                    0.6%
Eicosanoic (20:1) = 13.64%
Eicosadienoic (20:2) = 4.39%
Eicosapentaenoic (20:5) = 6.3%
Erucic (22.1) = 2.02%
Docasapentaenoic (22:5) = 3.29%
Docosahexaenoic (22:6) = 7.05%
I do understand how some of these oils determine certain characteristics of the resulting soap but some of them are completely lost on me...more research required


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## cmzaha (Mar 21, 2020)

If it were me I would use an average of the two Sap values and go with that. Sap would depend more on the type of Seal than the rendering process, I would think. Can you post a link for the document? Many of us here like links.  I ran into this same issue when I used Camel fat and had to do a lot of research to come up with an average Sap value.

 Still, I would not waste hard to get oil on experimenting, unless this is an easily acquired oil for you since I do realize seal harvesting is allowed in some countries. It would be better to get a base recipe using an oil such as sunflower, canola, OO, etc then sub in your seal oil. Like Susie, I used to never go over 15% CO but with a few years of tweaking, I am finding I can now use up to 18% CO in my recipes without it drying out my skin, and none of my customers have noticed the difference. I do still keep facial bars at 10-12% CO.

If you have the KOH Sap you can divide by 1.403 to get the NaOH Sap value. KOH is for liquid soap, NaOH is for bar soap and both can be referred to as lye. Usually in the forum folks do refer to NaOH as lye. KOH is Potassium Hydroxide and NaOH is Sodium Hydroxide which you probably already know by now.


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## newtonandpelle (Mar 21, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> If it were me I would use an average of the two Sap values and go with that. Sap would depend more on the type of Seal than the rendering process, I would think. Can you post a link for the document? Many of us here like links.  I ran into this same issue when I used Camel fat and had to do a lot of research to come up with an average Sap value.
> 
> Still, I would not waste hard to get oil on experimenting, unless this is an easily acquired oil for you since I do realize seal harvesting is allowed in some countries. It would be better to get a base recipe using an oil such as sunflower, canola, OO, etc then sub in your seal oil. Like Susie, I used to never go over 15% CO but with a few years of tweaking, I am finding I can now use up to 18% CO in my recipes without it drying out my skin, and none of my customers have noticed the difference. I do still keep facial bars at 10-12% CO.
> 
> If you have the KOH Sap you can divide by 1.403 to get the NaOH Sap value. KOH is for liquid soap, NaOH is for bar soap and both can be referred to as lye. Usually in the forum folks do refer to NaOH as lye. KOH is Potassium Hydroxide and NaOH is Sodium Hydroxide which you probably already know by now.



Haha I can't seems to post a picture never mind a link!!


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## Nona'sFarm (Mar 21, 2020)

Just a thought, you can add oils to the SoapMakingFriend calculator. I think you have enough information there to do that.

https://www.soapmakingfriend.com/soap-making-recipe-builder-lye-calculator/


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## cmzaha (Mar 21, 2020)

newtonandpelle said:


> Haha I can't seems to post a picture never mind a link!!


You can go up to the top of the page and click on the link button 7th button from the left and just paste in the copied url from the page you found the info or just type in the address in your post.


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## cmzaha (Mar 21, 2020)

Nona'sFarm said:


> Just a thought, you can add oils to the SoapMakingFriend calculator. I think you have enough information there to do that.
> 
> https://www.soapmakingfriend.com/soap-making-recipe-builder-lye-calculator/


I would be a little careful with that one as it will tend to offend a lot of soapmakers. While we are a worldwide forum seal products are illegal in the US and I think possibly in Europe. Seals are protected in the US so I am sure some folks might be offended. I for one and being an offshore fisherperson have other thoughts on the subject. No, I am not trying to start any big long discussion about the use of any oil. Afterall I make camel fat soap.


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## newtonandpelle (Mar 21, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> I would be a little careful with that one as it will tend to offend a lot of soapmakers. While we are a worldwide forum seal products are illegal in the US and I think possibly in Europe. Seals are protected in the US so I am sure some folks might be offended. I for one and being an offshore fisherperson have other thoughts on the subject. No, I am not trying to start any big long discussion about the use of any oil. Afterall I make camel fat soap.



...And the camels give you that willingly?LOL I am not going to engage in an ethical debate about sources of oils for making soap. I have access to seal oil...so I will use it. I am sure someone from India would shudder at using tallow from a cow since they are sacred animals there...soap needs fat. We use what we have access to.


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## newtonandpelle (Mar 21, 2020)

newtonandpelle said:


> ...And the camels give you that willingly?LOL I am not going to engage in an ethical debate about sources of oils for making soap. I have access to seal oil...so I will use it. I am sure someone from India would shudder at using tallow from a cow since they are sacred animals there...soap needs fat. We use what we have access to.


While it IS illegal to import seal products into the US, indigenous people of Alaska are permitted to hunt seals and use all parts of it for whatever purpose they want.


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## Nona'sFarm (Mar 21, 2020)

Yes, we are in a world where just about anything we do may offend someone else's ethics. It is part of being a global world. So each of us have to weigh the situation and determine what is in the highest good - a tough one. I use palm oil,what I buy says it is imported from growers who use sustainable practices. I pray that it is, but sometimes I wonder who is verifying that.


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## cmzaha (Mar 21, 2020)

newtonandpelle said:


> ...And the camels give you that willingly?LOL I am not going to engage in an ethical debate about sources of oils for making soap. I have access to seal oil...so I will use it. I am sure someone from India would shudder at using tallow from a cow since they are sacred animals there...soap needs fat. We use what we have access to.


And I have no problems with seal oil either, here they are so rampant we have had them jump in our boat. Ever see the teeth those suckers have. The camel fat comes from a legal supplier, but I am sure some do not like it.  I use palm oil too. No arguments from me. My favorite snow boots when I was a teen were made from seal skin and fur. Boy, they were warm. I loved those boots!!

BTW, I would save some of that oil and make a nice balm with it, I am sure it would be lovely and so will your soap. If I had access to some you can be sure I would go for it, but I would just not be able to sell it.


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## newtonandpelle (Mar 21, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> And I have no problems with seal oil either, here they are so rampant we have had them jump in our boat. Ever see the teeth those suckers have. The camel fat comes from a legal supplier, but I am sure some do not like it.  I use palm oil too. No arguments from me. My favorite snow boots when I was a teen were made from seal skin and fur. Boy, they were warm. I loved those boots!!
> 
> BTW, I would save some of that oil and make a nice balm with it, I am sure it would be lovely and so will your soap. If I had access to some you can be sure I would go for it, but I would just not be able to sell it.[/QU





cmzaha said:


> If it were me I would use an average of the two Sap values and go with that. Sap would depend more on the type of Seal than the rendering process, I would think. Can you post a link for the document? Many of us here like links.  I ran into this same issue when I used Camel fat and had to do a lot of research to come up with an average Sap value.
> 
> Still, I would not waste hard to get oil on experimenting, unless this is an easily acquired oil for you since I do realize seal harvesting is allowed in some countries. It would be better to get a base recipe using an oil such as sunflower, canola, OO, etc then sub in your seal oil. Like Susie, I used to never go over 15% CO but with a few years of tweaking, I am finding I can now use up to 18% CO in my recipes without it drying out my skin, and none of my customers have noticed the difference. I do still keep facial bars at 10-12% CO.
> 
> If you have the KOH Sap you can divide by 1.403 to get the NaOH Sap value. KOH is for liquid soap, NaOH is for bar soap and both can be referred to as lye. Usually in the forum folks do refer to NaOH as lye. KOH is Potassium Hydroxide and NaOH is Sodium Hydroxide which you probably already know by now.



Here is the link to the scientific article detailing the characteristics of seal oil...twice as interesting since I am also tanning seal pelts:
https://www.researchgate.net/public...haracterization_and_use_as_leather_fat_liquor


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## cmzaha (Mar 21, 2020)

Thanks are you going to make something nice from the pelts


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## newtonandpelle (Mar 21, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> Thanks are you going to make something nice from the pelts



Planning on making lots of nice things!


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## bookreader451 (Mar 21, 2020)

I find this discussion fascinating. I love the diversity of our forum and seeing what oils others have access too and how they can be used.


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## rdc1978 (Mar 22, 2020)

LOL, in my mind I'm envisioning these camels and seals dying natural deaths before the fat is rendered.  

While my feelings may be one way, so much respect for not wasting anything and finding a use for everything.  Its not my thing, but I find it fascinating when people find creative ways to not waste.


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## CaraBou (Mar 25, 2020)

Very interesting discussion -- thanks for posting NandP, and for sharing what you have learned. Your soap is intriguing, and I hope we get pics and more info as it cures. 

As a professional wildlife biologist and former resident of Alaska, I support and build on what you said. Harvest of seals -- and other marine mammals including polar bears -- is indeed legal by Alaska Natives under the US's Marine Mammal Protection Act. Marine mammals have always been, and hopefully will continue to be, integral to their culture.  Marine mammals are no different than land animals (e.g., deer, elk, black bear), in that sustainable harvest is key. Also similar: Commercial harvest is not allowed under US law. Alaska Natives can sell art or clothing that they have made from marine mammals so that they can continue their traditional sustainable way of life.  That is probably how cmzaha got her amazing boots.

From your other post: interesting to know seal oil has no scent. I have seen it but never smelled or tasted it. I know Arctic travelers drink small quantities for the high energy content, I've seen dog mushers with it. 

_"A user of mink oil locally has expressed interest in the seal oil as a possibly somewhat comparable product although I have no idea what they use the mink oil for._" I have used mink oil for waterproofing leather, but there are other uses as well. 

Cheers, and welcome to the forum.


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## cmzaha (Mar 25, 2020)

CaraBou said:


> Very interesting discussion -- thanks for posting NandP, and for sharing what you have learned. Your soap is intriguing, and I hope we get pics and more info as it cures.
> 
> As a professional wildlife biologist and former resident of Alaska, I support and build on what you said. Harvest of seals -- and other marine mammals including polar bears -- is indeed legal by Alaska Natives under the US's Marine Mammal Protection Act. Marine mammals have always been, and hopefully will continue to be, integral to their culture.  Marine mammals are no different than land animals (e.g., deer, elk, black bear), in that sustainable harvest is key. Also similar: Commercial harvest is not allowed under US law. Alaska Natives can sell art or clothing that they have made from marine mammals so that they can continue their traditional sustainable way of life.  That is probably how cmzaha got her amazing boots.
> 
> ...


And they need to be controlled here. When they are so out of control they jump into your boat when you are just out for a day or weekend of fishing it is not good. You catch a fish they attack it... But when someone saves a beached whale or sick seal on a beach gives it a name posts it on social media what out. Now we have to save them all. Seals are destroying our local fisheries up and down the coast of California. BTW this is my opinion, and twice we had to deal with a blasted seal that decided to land itself in our boat. Actually there was not much that could be done until the blasted things decided how to jump back out so we had to make out way to the bridge to stay safe since our boat did not have a transom door. 

As for my Camel fat, it comes from overpopulation of feral camels in Australia (if I remember correctly) and is government-controlled. I criticize no one for what is obtained legally and used properly and humanely. I would still buy a pair of seal boots.


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## Els (Mar 25, 2020)

What an interesting thread this has been! Do you have a regular supply of seal oil? My recommendation would be to add some vitamin E (mixed tocepherols, ideally) as this can prevent or at least delay fats/oils from going rancid. Of course information on shelf life of oils and fats is easy to find for common fats, much harder to find for "exotic" fats like Camel or Seal. 

When it comes to experimenting with more common fats and oils, you don't object to using animal fats. You really should get some ordinary (pig) lard and work with that -- it is simply amazing and amazingly easy to work with. I expect (cattle) tallow would be equally nice and quite possibly as easy, it's just that pure lard is so easy to get. I look forward to reading how the seal soap turns out but would  be concerned that it might not make a good hard bar -- fats that are liquid at room temperature often don't -- so you may experiment with a mixture involving "hard" fats like lard or tallow. Palm oil is very often used to make a harder bar, but it accelerates? trace. It was after using palm oil as my "hard fat" for quite some time that I used lard for the first time and I'm sure the contrast between lard and palm had a LOT to do with my falling in love with lard!


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## Mobjack Bay (Mar 25, 2020)

Regarding the custom oil feature in the SMF calculator -
You can create a personal custom oil, just like you can create a personal custom additive list.  I don’t see anyone else’s custom oils or additives in my lists.

The only problem I have with the custom oil feature so far is that I can’t edit or delete an oil once I add it.


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## newtonandpelle (Apr 1, 2020)

Mobjack Bay said:


> Regarding the custom oil feature in the SMF calculator -
> You can create a personal custom oil, just like you can create a personal custom additive list.  I don’t see anyone else’s custom oils or additives in my lists.
> The only problem I have with the custom oil feature so far is that I can’t edit or delete an oil once I add it.


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## newtonandpelle (Apr 1, 2020)

Thanks! Someone else also suggested that so I did. I also added fatty acid information for mink oil to the calculator which gave me a more complete profile in the end recipe since none of the formation was in the calculator.


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## newtonandpelle (Apr 1, 2020)

Els said:


> What an interesting thread this has been! Do you have a regular supply of seal oil? My recommendation would be to add some vitamin E (mixed tocepherols, ideally) as this can prevent or at least delay fats/oils from going rancid. Of course information on shelf life of oils and fats is easy to find for common fats, much harder to find for "exotic" fats like Camel or Seal.
> 
> When it comes to experimenting with more common fats and oils, you don't object to using animal fats. You really should get some ordinary (pig) lard and work with that -- it is simply amazing and amazingly easy to work with. I expect (cattle) tallow would be equally nice and quite possibly as easy, it's just that pure lard is so easy to get. I look forward to reading how the seal soap turns out but would  be concerned that it might not make a good hard bar -- fats that are liquid at room temperature often don't -- so you may experiment with a mixture involving "hard" fats like lard or tallow. Palm oil is very often used to make a harder bar, but it accelerates? trace. It was after using palm oil as my "hard fat" for quite some time that I used lard for the first time and I'm sure the contrast between lard and palm had a LOT to do with my falling in love with lard!



The second batch I made, I used lard instead of the canola oil. I dont know the source of the lard as it was just "Lard" sold in the bakery aisle. The soap was a lot firmer sooner than the first batch. Both batches seem the be drying nicely. No cracks or rancid smells or anything...but then I have no clue what to look for. Looks like hard bars of soap to me so I think they look great. I am getting impatient and want to try them now but they have only been curing for 2 weeks. I will have access to lots of deer tallow in the fall so will definitely be using that in a soap recipe.


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## artemis (Apr 1, 2020)

newtonandpelle said:


> I am getting impatient and want to try them now but they have only been curing for 2 weeks.



You can try it now. It is safe. In fact, some like to cut a small bar to try so they can understand how the soap changes as it cures.


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## newtonandpelle (Apr 1, 2020)

artemis said:


> You can try it now. It is safe. In fact, some like to cut a small bar to try so they can understand how the soap changes as it cures.



Thanks!! Haha that's what I was waiting for! Someone who clearly knows more about soap making than me (almost everyone) to say go ahead and try it. Not really sure I will be able to truly evaluate the soap since my hands feel like sandpaper these days from so much washing!


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