# Useful or Useless Information



## Relle (Jan 8, 2014)

Did you know that the average person has enough stored fat in their body to make 7 cakes of soap. :shock:  I'm not average so would probably have enough for a whole log :shh:.

 So if you run out of oil to make soap, just pull someone off the street and render down their fat .


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## Lin (Jan 8, 2014)

You haven't seen/read Fight Club have you?


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## roseb (Jan 8, 2014)

Lol!


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## Derpina Bubbles (Jan 8, 2014)

Bwhaha now I'm going to be looking at people and trying to work out how many bars they have in them.  I'd love to lose a bar or 2 myself.


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## neeners (Jan 8, 2014)

how interesting!  yet....slightly creepy.  wonder how long it will take for the SAP value of human tallow (would it be called that?) to show up on SoapCalc?!?!!?


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## kazmi (Jan 8, 2014)

I have enough fat of my own to make MUCH more than 7 bars of soap.  But I think it would be more fun to pull someone off the street to render fat.  Like someone that has no business being in the driver seat of a car, or someone that does something stupid in the grocery line.....LMAO !!!


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## Derpina Bubbles (Jan 8, 2014)

Dexter's Artisan Soapworks.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 8, 2014)

Hey, what about this for a biz name?

H. Lecter's Lavatorium    

:mrgreen:


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## roseb (Jan 8, 2014)

Derpina Bubbles said:


> Dexter's Artisan Soapworks.



Sick, but funny!


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## lpstephy85 (Jan 8, 2014)

I could clean the world and then some! Very interesting fact. Gross, but interesting


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## boyago (Jan 9, 2014)

Lin said:


> You haven't seen/read Fight Club have you?



I'm sure that's listed on the Paper Street Soap Company packaging.


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## neeners (Jan 9, 2014)

i wonder if any soap makers who works at a plastic surgeon office thinks that when they're performing a liposuction.....


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jan 9, 2014)

Takes it rather beyond looking at trays and seeing soap molds - looking at people and seeing saponifiable oils.....................


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## pamielynn (Jan 9, 2014)

We have so many "fat-sucking" places in my city, that I often think of pulling a Tyler Durden some night....


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## mel z (Jan 9, 2014)

This thread is cracking me up! 

Since the human body is considered to be closet to a pig's body if working in a field that deals with decomp, I'm guessing rather than beef tallow, once rendered, we could plug the amount into soap calc under lard. 

I am very curious now about human tallow and what sort of bar of soap it would make.... I'm sure if I look, some serial killer has already done this and I just haven't come across it yet, or they haven't bothered to pipe up about it. If I had to guess, it would be Ed Gein.

I'd say I would render into a couple of logs.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 9, 2014)

Um, well, okay, at the risk of seeming rather ghoulish, human fat is probably a bit closer to beef tallow than lard.

They all have about the same amount of oleic and palmitic acids. Human fat has less stearic than either of the animal fats. Human fat and beef tallow have less linoleic acid than lard -- that is probably the biggest distinction.

Human fat contains about 46% oleic acid, 26% palmitic acid, 6.5% stearic, and 3% linoleic. 

Beef tallow has 36-47% oleic and 26-28% palmitic, 14-22% stearic, and 3% linoleic, depending on what source I look at. 

Lard has more like 33-46% oleic, 20-28% palmitic, 10-13% stearic, and 6-22% linoleic. 

Source for human fatty acid content: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1205373/?page=4

<...slinking back to my coffin...>


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## mel z (Jan 9, 2014)

Lol, thank you DeeAnna. I hope you do know I was joking around. I do thank you for the link though, I knew someone would know the answer, even thought I didn't REALLY want to know. You're the best!


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## ourwolfden (Jan 9, 2014)

Didn’t the guy on the ostrich oil thread say that ostrich oil and people oil and very similar?


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## DeeAnna (Jan 9, 2014)

Yep, Mel, I know you're joking. I can't resist an excuse to parade weird trivia in front of folks who will not immediately trot me off to the looney bin. 8)


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## judymoody (Jan 9, 2014)

The Nazis did experiments making soap from human fat.


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## MirandaH (Jan 9, 2014)

mel z said:


> This thread is cracking me up!
> 
> Since the human body is considered to be closet to a pig's body if working in a field that deals with decomp, I'm guessing rather than beef tallow, once rendered, we could plug the amount into soap calc under lard.
> 
> ...





judymoody said:


> The Nazis did experiments making soap from human fat.



Not only did the Nazi do it, (which, not to sound completely morbid, considering the photos I have seen of the people they killed, I can't imagine there was any fat let in them and it must have taken a lot of them to make anything) but an artist did it in recent years with his own fat from lipo.  Apparently, he showcased the soaps at an art exhibit with a sink and had people at the exhibit actually trying it.  

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/07/orestes-de-la-paz-soap-fat_n_3230944.html

http://orestesdelapaz.com/

Also, a few months ago, I saw this on an Avery label package.  The name on the label in the picture on the package is Tyler Durden and the address is the address for the house where they made the soap and planned project Mayhem in the book (not the same address in the movie).  I imagine the people who run Avery have no idea and it was kind of a joke by the person designing the package, like the adult things put into Disney movies.

When I looked for the link on Avery, they had changed the packaging, but some other sites still have the old packaging for sale, like this one:

http://www.bettymills.com/shop/prod...ntent=Office&gclid=CLisyY_38bsCFRNqfgod324Atg
I am a wealth of worthless knowledge.


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## Lin (Jan 9, 2014)

ourwolfden said:


> Didn’t the guy on the ostrich oil thread say that ostrich oil and people oil and very similar?


I think he meant similar to sebum, skin oil, not body fat. Like of the vegetable oils jojoba* is the most similar to sebum which makes it great for skin.

*jojoba being a wax ester, not a true oil


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## boyago (Jan 9, 2014)

MirandaH said:


> Also, a few months ago, I saw this on an Avery label package.  The name on the label in the picture on the package is Tyler Durden and the address is the address for the house where they made the soap and planned project Mayhem in the book (not the same address in the movie).  I imagine the people who run Avery have no idea and it was kind of a joke by the person designing the package, like the adult things put into Disney movies.
> 
> When I looked for the link on Avery, they had changed the packaging, but some other sites still have the old packaging for sale, like this one:
> 
> ...



Your not supposed to talk about it.


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## houseofwool (Jan 9, 2014)

Oh holy buckets, Deanna, HOW do you know about the fatty acid composition of human fat?


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## eyeroll (Jan 9, 2014)

judymoody said:


> The Nazis did experiments making soap from human fat.




You lose, judy......Godwin's law. 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law


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## DeeAnna (Jan 10, 2014)

"...Oh holy buckets, Deanna, HOW do you know about the fatty acid composition of human fat?..."

:wink:  Amazing what a person can find on Google. I linked to a research paper that was looking at the connection between diet and the fatty acid composition of the person's body fat. The thinking being that what you eat ... ends up in your fat. Nothing remotely related to ghoulish activities or cruel Nazi research experiments.

I can doctor my critters and sometimes my husband (when he'll let me), but that's about it for my medical background. My only interest in human body fat, outside this thread, is that I possess a little more of my own than I'd like.


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## Relle (Jan 10, 2014)

Lot's of info that I didn't know or want to know about human body fat :shock:. I'd better get rid of some before some soap maker pulls me off the street .


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## DeeAnna (Jan 10, 2014)

Actually, Judy is correct. In 2006, tests on a sample of soap made by Nazis during WWII showed it contained some saponified human fat. Judy said ~experiments~ and that is also correct ... this was a limited scale experiment. 

And with that, I'm bowing out of the conversation ... my "ewwwww" reaction is getting really intense!


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## eyeroll (Jan 10, 2014)

Oh, I had no doubt judy was correct. I was just making a joke about the nature of the internet.


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## neeners (Jan 10, 2014)

during decomposition, some humans can turn into soap.  there's a woman called "The Soap Lady" in the Mutter Museum.  I remember reading this somewhere or watching it on Bones (the tv show).  highly interesting!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jan 10, 2014)

I wonder if that is enforcable in a will - wanting to be made in to soap rather than buried.....................?

You know you're addicted to soap when.......................


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## MirandaH (Jan 10, 2014)

boyago said:


> Your not supposed to talk about it.



Which is yet another reason I never would have made it in the Project Mayhem/Paper Street Soap Company house.  Not only could I not deal with making soap out of people, I just can't seem to keep my mouth shut.  Another prime example below. 



neeners said:


> during decomposition, some humans can turn into soap.  there's a woman called "The Soap Lady" in the Mutter Museum.  I remember reading this somewhere or watching it on Bones (the tv show).  highly interesting!



Totally awesome that you knew this Neeners! Sadly, I knew about this as well (figured I would probably be the only one, lol). I didn't go into it because I felt the artist info was enough disgusting for one post and the subject makes me think about Caylee Anthony and that just gets me really upset.  

It's called adipocere or grave wax. It happens all the time to corpses that are left to the elements outside in low oxygen, damp environments or underwater and not properly preserved or in graves where the people were properly preserved and they are in a warm air tight casket. It has something to do with gram-negative bacteria, but I can't remember at the moment and don't want to drag out my old textbooks.  

I promise I am not a total creeper.  Although I do think the Mutter Museum is amazing!  They have pieces of Einstein's brain there.  But I know an awful lot about decomp because I have been doing volunteer work in innocence cases for years and in college I had to learn all about what happens to murdered bodies.  My mother in law gave me a photographic book on the Mutter Museum because she figured I would like that kind of stuff because she was around when I was learning about decomp and saw how interested I was.  Again...not interested because I am a creeper.  I paid close attention because when working in the legal field, you have someone else's life in your hands and I really wanted to maintain my GPA.



The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> I wonder if that is enforcable in a will - wanting to be made in to soap rather than buried.....................?
> 
> You know you're addicted to soap when.......................



That's really an interesting question.  I think I might look into it.  You would be surprised what a person can have enforced in a will.  However, I would imagine that a lot would have to be done in advance of death to ensure it could happen.  In the US, we are pretty serious about keeping with someone's wishes, but at the same time, if for public safety reasons alone, they are also pretty strict about what can be done.  For example, my cousin wanted some of his ashes spread at Haight/Ashbury, but my aunt had to get permits from the city to dump them there.


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## neeners (Jan 10, 2014)

the Mutter Museum is on my "Museums to visit" list. i'm into that kind of stuff too, so you're not alone!


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## boyago (Jan 10, 2014)

neeners said:


> I remember reading this somewhere or watching it on Bones (the tv show).  highly interesting!



I think I saw that one.  Either Bones or another one of those shows loosely based on science. It threw up a red flag for me because the body was found in a oil drum and the soap filled it from top to bottom. I remember thinking about how much fat that would take but I don't remember if they explained where all that material came from.  
Wasn't there a Native American mummy found called "the bog lady" that had also saponified in her anaerobic boggy grave?


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## MirandaH (Jan 10, 2014)

boyago said:


> I think I saw that one.  Either Bones or another one of those shows loosely based on science. It threw up a red flag for me because the body was found in a oil drum and the soap filled it from top to bottom. I remember thinking about how much fat that would take but I don't remember if they explained where all that material came from.
> Wasn't there a Native American mummy found called "the bog lady" that had also saponified in her anaerobic boggy grave?



It might have been in Denmark. There is one that is really old that was found in Denmark that was a woman, but I don't know if they gave her a name. If so, it would probably be "The Bog Lady."  They call them bog people or bog bodies. I think that she was like 10,000 years old.  There are also other ones in museums: Tollund Man, Lindow Man and Grauballe Man.  But by far, Tollund man and the woman were the best preserved. They still looked like people peacefully sleeping, but very dark in skin color.


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## boyago (Jan 10, 2014)

Relle9 said:


> Did you know that the average person has enough stored fat in their body to make 7 cakes of soap..



Is a "cake" a defined unit?  

Bonus question: Are there other soap based unit definitions?  Is there a benchmark/standard for a "bar" of soap?


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## mel z (Jan 10, 2014)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> I wonder if that is enforcable in a will - wanting to be made in to soap rather than buried.....................?
> 
> You know you're addicted to soap when.......................



I do not work in the field of Wills, much less the wealthy that can make demands. However, in the U.S. probably not. If very, very wealthy, or if your body is in a country or an island that has no laws on, crap, I don't know delicate terms, on what happens when you go, then yes, you can! I would think the UK is similar in laws as the U.S., so make a few millions, or billions, buy your own Greek Island and create your own colony. {Chuckles to self, but remembers others do not deal with horrid crimes daily, and am out of order on The Soap Making Forum.}



MirandaH said:


> That's really an interesting question.  I think I might look into it.  You would be surprised what a person can have enforced in a will.  However, I would imagine that a lot would have to be done in advance of death to ensure it could happen.  In the US, we are pretty serious about keeping with someone's wishes, but at the same time, if for public safety reasons alone, they are also pretty strict about what can be done.  For example, my cousin wanted some of his ashes spread at Haight/Ashbury, but my aunt had to get permits from the city to dump them there.



***WARNING GRAPHIC - IF SENSITIVE DO NOT READ OR GO TO LINK***


The Body Farm. You can donate your body. Uumm, it is in Tennessee.................... Probably free for your remains to be transported, not necessarily turned into soap, but you can call and ask.

http://fac.utk.edu/donation.html

Sorry if this is creeping out the sensitive. I used to be, and I forget.


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## MirandaH (Jan 10, 2014)

I have actually worked with the body farm before. Morbidly enough, I wanted to go there, but they don't really just let people in willy nilly. I was trying to get extra credit for school. But the lawyers that I work with have had to go Dr Vass to ask questions about two cases we worked on. I can promise you, they will not deliberately make you into soap...at least not in the sense the Gentleman was speaking of. And being that I only do criminal law and not civil, I have no idea about wills either, but I do have some people I can ask. They are really going to think I am nuts when I do. 

I used to be sensitive too and I hope we haven't creeped too many people out. I have lost all sensitivity and I wish that weren't the case. Especially when I speak with victim's families about their loved one's murder cases. Sometimes I forget and am a little insensitive because I separate myself from the fact that these were real people in an effort not to take the cases personally so that I can do the best possible job of getting them justice. That's what 18 years of looking at crime scene photos will do to you, I suppose.


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## Relle (Jan 10, 2014)

I think I'm sorry I started this thread. 

 It was just that the person I walk with of a morning mentioned to me that his granddaughter had a - Did you know question on a wrapper of something that she was eating and told me about it.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 10, 2014)

Don't be sorry. Please! This thread has been enlightening and interesting, if a little unusual. We need to be able to talk about the "forbidden" things as well as the "normal" things on this forum. What is wonderful is how we've kept the conversation factual as well as interesting. Thanks for starting a intriguing conversation that has stretched my understanding of all things soap.


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## MirandaH (Jan 10, 2014)

Relle9 said:


> *I think I'm sorry I started this thread. *
> 
> It was just that the person I walk with of a morning mentioned to me that his granddaughter had a - Did you know question on a wrapper of something that she was eating and told me about it.



BBM

For some reason I get this a lot, lol!  I don't think you should be sorry either.  This has been fun, at least for me.  And look how much you learned...that you probably didn't want to and never thought you would.  I am fascinated with people.  Not only what our bodies do, but also all the various things people do, from why serial killers do the things they do to why people would make soap out of their own body to what causes certain children to give away their birthday presents to kids in hospitals.  We are a crazy, amazing species and I am determined to learn everything I can about us.


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## mel z (Jan 10, 2014)

Moderators, please delete anything that is inappropriate or inconsiderate. I do not intend to be, but if I delete just my own posts answers will not make sense. I am sorry to ask for the extra work, and most sorry if offensive in any way.

And, MirandaH, I know The Body Farm will not do soap, but would have loads of info. Good for you getting to speak with Dr. Vass! I hope the sniffer idea eventually works out as a Court acceptable science, however, soil chemicals and underground gases may prevent that. I hope he looks closer to the actual crime scene, and narrows that idea.

And, I was trying to avoid all the WWII issues, and the incomprehensible myriad issues with humans and any part of them. I should just shut up now.........


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## Lin (Jan 10, 2014)

Mary Roach was able to visit the body farm when writing _Stiff: The curious lives of human cadavers_. Great book, really the best of all hers imo. Not to be read by the sensitive though.


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## Derpina Bubbles (Jan 10, 2014)

Morbid, interesting, informative and yes, a tad creepy.  That's part of humanity though and I for one am not offended by the contents of this thread.

 However, I do now have a list of people on here that I never want to tick off. You good looking, intelligent and wonderful folks :shifty:


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## kryse13 (Jan 10, 2014)

I'm just relieved I wasn't the only one thinking about if you could make soap from people fat. I thought it was possible just wasn't going to say it out loud 

 So maybe on the street there was a barber shop, a meat pie shop, and a soap factory? (Sweetney Todd)


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## DeeAnna (Jan 11, 2014)

I am not in the least offended by anything that's been said here. (So, hey, Mel, I'm okay with your posts!) 

It's just an unusual and edgy topic that I sometimes have to approach "sideways" and in "little bites", so to speak. Unlike Miranda (and my husband who is also a lawyer), I do not have years of dealing with the worst of human behavior to desensitize me to the issues of mortality and the wide range of human behavior. If I keep my usual somewhat dispassionate engineering curiosity going, it's okay and I can contribute to the discussion, but when I go deeper and think about issues of cruelty and disrespect for life, then I can get a little uncomfortable and have to slow down. 

But I still feel strongly that we can and should talk about the edgy aspects of soap making as well as the norm. Thanks, all, for sharing. Been really interesting....


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## Ancel (Jan 11, 2014)

Yes, it's macabre but it's fascinating, probably more so as it's a taboo, or almost taboo subject. As I sit here and ponder my own belly spilling out from the top of my trousers and rue that I didn't get more lard from the butcher . . .


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## boyago (Jan 12, 2014)

boyago said:


> Is a "cake" a defined unit?
> 
> Bonus question: Are there other soap based unit definitions?  Is there a benchmark/standard for a "bar" of soap?



Bueller... Bueller...


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## grayceworks (Jan 12, 2014)

Fascinating. 

I love learning stuff. Even if it's kindof morbid. lol


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## EvilTOJ (Jan 23, 2014)

I think the OP figure of 7 cakes is way underestimated. Since I've idly wondered if otherwise useless human beings I know could be more useful rendered down to their constituent elements, I decided to math it up a little. 

According to Wikipedia, there's no one standard percentage of fat in a human being. It depends on age, fitness, and gender. Women range between 10% to 31%, men generally range between 2% and 25%. 

So assuming you have a human that weighs about 150 lbs and they're American... I mean "average", at 25% fat in the body you get 37 lbs. Since human fat is basically lard or tallow, I plugged in the saponification values for Lard into my spreadsheet. After adding the fat, water and lye, minus 20% water loss, I get 43.68 lbs of soap. 

Or, around 139 five ounce bars. 

If you were to take a 150 lb male Olympian(which have the lowest percentage of body fat) at 5% body fat, you'd get 8.85 lbs of soap, which is about 28 five ounce bars.


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## Dennis (Jan 28, 2014)

mel z said:


> ***WARNING GRAPHIC - IF SENSITIVE DO NOT READ OR GO TO LINK***
> 
> 
> The Body Farm. You can donate your body. Uumm, it is in Tennessee.................... Probably free for your remains to be transported, not necessarily turned into soap, but you can call and ask.
> ...



There was a documentary on television concerning the UT forensics program.  Most interesting.  I'm sure some were creeped out, but it was interesting.


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## MzMolly65 (Jan 28, 2014)

mel z said:


> Sorry if this is creeping out the sensitive. I used to be, and I forget.



Not creeped out at all .. in fact I bookmarked the link you provided.  I've always wanted to donate my remains like that but hadn't gotten around to researching where that could be done and you just saved me looking.

Thank you!


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## Ijeoma Soronnadi (Sep 25, 2020)

neeners said:


> i wonder if any soap makers who works at a plastic surgeon office thinks that when they're performing a liposuction.....


I definitely would


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## shunt2011 (Sep 25, 2020)

Ijeoma Soronnadi said:


> I definitely would


The OP hasn’t been here in almost 5 years.


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