# Coco Betaine



## Rebecca1221 (Sep 24, 2017)

Just wanted to see if anybody uses coco betaine in their bath bombs. I know it's often used in bubble bars but I'm looking to combine it with SLSA in my bombs. I'm not sure how much to use though. Currently using a 3 cup mixture with 1 TBSP of SLSA.

Thanks in advance!!


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## jcandleattic (Sep 25, 2017)

Rebecca1221 said:


> Just wanted to see if anybody uses coco betaine in their bath bombs. I know it's often used in bubble bars but I'm looking to combine it with SLSA in my bombs. I'm not sure how much to use though. Currently using a 3 cup mixture with 1 TBSP of SLSA.
> 
> Thanks in advance!!



I do. Along with SLSA, I use it very sparingly though, as only a little is needed, and use 1 tsp to my 3 cup mixture. I also use poly and powdered non-dairy milk.


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## DeeAnna (Sep 25, 2017)

FWIW, cocamidopropyl betaine (CAPB) is frequently mislabeled as coco betaine (CB). Despite what you'll see online, the two are NOT the same thing. 

CAPB is a mild surfactant. CB is an entirely different chemical often used as a conditioning agent. It is quite a bit harder to find. 

In a bath bomb, you'd want cocamidopropyl betaine, the surfactant.


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## Rebecca1221 (Sep 25, 2017)

Good to know! We did buy the proper one, the few times I did see it, people referred to it as "coco betaine"...maybe that's why I haven't found much info on it....i've been searching the wrong thing! Lol


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## DeeAnna (Sep 25, 2017)

A LOT of B&B distributors have CAPB listed incorrectly as coco betaine. And you'll find other sources who incorrectly claim CAPB and CB are the exact same thing. But when you start looking closely at the manufacturers' info, you'll see them listed as separate chemicals. Yes, it's really, really, really confusing!!!!


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## dblbubble (Sep 27, 2017)

Yes, I do...just like jcandleattic, I'd use 1 tsp to a 3 cup mix. Add it last, as it has water in it and will start a slight activation. Mix well. I like that along with SLSA it adds a little bit more bubble "umph".


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## PuddinAndPeanuts (Sep 29, 2017)

dblbubble said:


> Yes, I do...just like jcandleattic, I'd use 1 tsp to a 3 cup mix. Add it last, as it has water in it and will start a slight activation. Mix well. I like that along with SLSA it adds a little bit more bubble "umph".




By a 3 cup mix- do you mean 3 cups of dry ingredients, or 3 cups wet and dry combined?


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## Dahila (Sep 29, 2017)

INCI: Cocamidopropyl Betaine
INCI name COCO-BETAINE  Alternative namesCocodimethylbetain, Kokosdimethylbetain, Tego Betain A 4080, Kokos Betain  OriginMostly plant-derived  DefinitionBetaines, coco alkyldimethyl  INCI functionSurfactant, Cleansing, Foam boosting


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## Rebecca1221 (Sep 29, 2017)

I'm using a 3 cup dry mix.

We tried 1 tsp. One batch of bombs expanded out of the molds. We put it in the tub just for kicks and the foam was perfect. The other batch was fine but slowed down the fizzing in our test bath bomb so it didn't give off the "flash foam" I was expecting. We made another batch today with 3 tsp thinking we didn't use enough, and they expanded very quickly even though they were mixed thoroughly. We're not sure where we are going wrong  Should I try mixing it with my carrier oils?


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## jcandleattic (Sep 29, 2017)

Rebecca1221 said:


> Should I try mixing it with my carrier oils?



I mix all of my dry ingredients, minus the citric acid, then separately I mix all of my wet ingredients and mix well, (usually with a little milk frother), then I mix my combined dry (without CA) with my combined wet ingredients and mix well. It will seem to wet, because at this point, it is. 
Then after it is mixed well, I mix in my CA and mold. No activation this way, and they turn out well every time.


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## DeeAnna (Oct 2, 2017)

Dahila said:


> INCI: Cocamidopropyl Betaine
> INCI name COCO-BETAINE  Alternative namesCocodimethylbetain, Kokosdimethylbetain, Tego Betain A 4080, Kokos Betain  OriginMostly plant-derived  DefinitionBetaines, coco alkyldimethyl  INCI functionSurfactant, Cleansing, Foam boosting



I have no idea where this so-called INCI listing comes from, Dahlia, but no matter -- it's not correct.

If you go to CosIng, the official EU database for INCI, you'll find the correct information. Here are links for CAPB and CB in that database --

CAPB --
INCI is COCAMIDOPROPYL BETAINE
CAS # 61789-40-0 
http://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/cosing/index.cfm?fuseaction=search.details&id=75231

CB -- 
INCI is COCO-BETAINE
CAS # 68424-94-2
http://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/cosing/index.cfm?fuseaction=search.details&id=75265

The CAS numbers are unique numbers assigned to different chemicals manufactured in the chemical industry. If you know the CAS number, you can positively identify a particular chemical, regardless of the name that people use. If CAPB and CB were the same chemical, they'd have the same CAS and the same INCI.

<sigh> This is the end of what I'm going to say about this issue. I get the feeling people don't want to believe this.


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## Steve85569 (Oct 2, 2017)

http://www.guidechem.com/msds/68424-94-2.html

https://www.spectrumchemical.com/MSDS/C2033.PDF

For MSDS type info sheets.


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## Dahila (Oct 3, 2017)

Thanks DeeAnna , I do not remember where I found it but right cas# is the one that should be used if Inci are misleading


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## dblbubble (Oct 11, 2017)

PuddinAndPeanuts said:


> By a 3 cup mix- do you mean 3 cups of dry ingredients, or 3 cups wet and dry combined?



3 cups of your dry mix (not including SLSA). Try adding 1 T of SLSA to your dry mix and 1 tsp of Coco B as part of your wet ingredients. Add the Coco B last, as it will start activation, then mix really well.

If your mix is expanding after that, then you have some other wet ingredient that is contributing to your BBs not drying. Try adjusting those. 

For a 3 cup dry mix, you probably shouldn't have more than 1/2-3/4 T of a carrier oil (try with a 1/2 T first).


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