# Recipe for a *really* hard bar?



## SoapEh (Nov 23, 2017)

Hi everyone! Happy Thanksgiving to my neighbours to the south  

Because I'm a new soaper, I've basically been constantly experimenting for the last few months. I'm starting to figure out what works well for me, and also what I like personally. 

Turns out I like really hard, glossy, almost waxy-textured soap. I don't need big, frothy bubbles -- creamy lather suits me just fine, but I do have very dry skin so it has to be gentle. 

Therein lies my question -- the soap I have is lovely in texture (for me), but just a bit too drying. I sat down and started playing with soapcalc, and went a little nutso with the hard oils -- it seems that palm, pko, and cocoa are ones that produce the texture I adore -- and made a recipe that should, in theory, cure to a very, very hard bar and hopefully not over-cleanse (it is on the upper end of 'cleansing', but I'd superfat slightly higher and I think I have some pretty nourishing oils in the recipe to help combat dryness). 

The recipe would have (in order) palm, olive, coconut, pko, cocoa butter, and avocado oil. I generally add a little kaolin clay and oatmeal to my recipes, and I plan to try a 7% superfat -- is that excessive? 

I know the answer is 'try it and see if you like it', but it's always nice to ask opinions before cracking into the supply and spending money on something you're going to end up hating. Worse, if I'm overlooking something and about to create a recipe that will seize, volcano, or otherwise self-destruct, it'd be nice to know


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## Susie (Nov 23, 2017)

Are you completely averse to using animal fats?  If not, I have a recipe for you!


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## toxikon (Nov 23, 2017)

A high percentage of tallow or palm with a touch of salt will give you a rock hard bar. Even just dissolving a tsp of salt into your water before adding your lye makes quite a marked difference.


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## MorpheusPA (Nov 23, 2017)

> The recipe would have (in order) palm, olive, coconut, pko, cocoa butter, and avocado oil. I generally add a little kaolin clay and oatmeal to my recipes, and I plan to try a 7% superfat -- is that excessive



That sounds good, actually!  Keep the palm high for some hardness, keep the coconut and/or pko high for more hardness (but also high lather and heavy cleansing).

Honestly, even pure olive cures rock hard (as in, could pound nails with it) in six to twelve months.

And you can use either coconut or PKO.  Effectively, they both do the same thing.  But if you want to use both, there's no reason not to.

For really, really hard bars, use soy wax as a component.  I count it as fully hydrogenated soybean oil, but have lately learned that's not necessarily true.  Still, it's rock hard.

I don't recommend use much over 20% or you get a rock hard, waxy bar (which you'd like) with extremely spare lather (which you probably wouldn't like).  

I just made one of these for my niece, who's vegetarian and won't use anything with animal fats.  That recipe was:

50% Olive Oil
25% Coconut Oil
20% Soy Wax
5% Castor Oil

That was a fairly hard bar, but still conditioning from the olive.

You can substitute palm, lard, or tallow for the olive for an even harder bar.


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## Obsidian (Nov 23, 2017)

I have dry skin too and I found that increasing SF and having a high conditioning number did absolutely nothing to keep my skin from drying out. For me, I need a lower cleansing number, around 10 is ideal but I can go up to 15.

My go to recipe is pretty dang hard but since you like a waxy feel, what about using some beeswax? This is my base recipe, you can add 3-5% beeswax. I would reduce the lard/palm. 5% SF

50% lard, palm or a mix of the two
20% coconut, pko or a mix of the two
25% OO or your favorite go to liquid oil
5% castor


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## SoapEh (Nov 23, 2017)

Susie said:


> Are you completely averse to using animal fats?  If not, I have a recipe for you!


Not at all, I have tried lard in recipes, though the only time I have had DOS was in a lard soap (the dates were fine on all containers) so I am a bit wary...


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## bathgeek (Nov 23, 2017)

If you’re open to a year’s wait, pure olive oil cures rock solid.


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## SoapEh (Nov 23, 2017)

bathgeek said:


> If you’re open to a year’s wait, pure olive oil cures rock solid.


Am I going somewhere?  
I am definitely going to try a castile soap. I don't think, in the end, it will be THE soap for me, but I think the experiment is something worth doing.


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## Saranac (Nov 23, 2017)

Morpheus' recipe looks good.  In fact, it's exactly what my first SW recipe looked like.  I now use soy wax in all of my bars but at closer to 40%.  It makes great soap that is rock hard in 6-8 weeks.


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## cmzaha (Nov 23, 2017)

40% Palm Oil, 30% tallow, 10% Coconut oil, 5% castor oil and 15% whatever soft oil you like will give a hard long lasting bar of soap with bubbly cream lather. You could cut the palm and add in some coco butter, but it is just without the butter. Hard bars do not represent long lasting soap, it is how soluble the soap formula is. Coconut Oil which creates a very hard soap is very soluble and disappears quickly, but is the reason it is used as a salt water soap for Sailors.


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## SoapEh (Nov 23, 2017)

UPDATE - 
So... I was home today (which is why I got busy thinking about all this in the first place), and had the energy, so I figured why not just try this out? 

I just finished making a 2lb test batch of my funky recipe and here are my immediate findings: 

I use a 2:1 water:lye ratio (for a bunch of reasons it seems to work better for me than the way I was doing it before, which was using a 33% lye percentage number -- that kept changing the ratio depending on the recipe, and doesn't seem to really make sense). I also don't add in extra oils any more -- there were just too many issues there, especially with smaller batches. If I want to pre-mix micas, I take the oil from the batch before I add in the lye. 

I mixed up the batch to light trace, then poured into six separate cups, each with pre-mixed colour. I had time to mix each cup up, pour thoughtfully into my mold (I didn't have to throw it in because it was getting too thick or anything). I did notice it started to heat and thicken up towards the end, and by the time I was *ahem* 'decorating' the top it was definitely becoming... ploppy. I tried to make a pretty soap, but I'm pretty sure it's going to come out a mess. I'm just having 'one of those days'.

I don't like leaving soapy dishes, so I started washing everything at the sink, but I had forgotten the stick blender. I went back to get it and noticed the top of my soap starting to crack -- this recipe gets HOT. 

The thing is, I usually use a silicone-lined mold, but today I was using freezer paper in a small, fairly thin, wooden mold. The soap had hardly any insulation, and my kitchen is actually pretty cold right now. 

The little loaf had already hardened up enough for me to lift it out of the mold, so at least it only has paper around it now, and hopefully it won't crack more. I was under the impression that *more* water was often the culprit in soaps overheating, but maybe this recipe would benefit from a higher water:lye ratio? 

So, we'll see what this turns out like - maybe it'll be 'the' recipe, maybe it'll be something I vow never to repeat. At least, between the cocoa butter and the Japanese Cherry Blossom scent F.O., my kitchen smells amazing right now 

Ah, experiments are fun 



cmzaha said:


> 40% Palm Oil, 30% tallow, 10% Coconut oil, 5% castor oil and 15% whatever soft oil you like will give a hard long lasting bar of soap with bubbly cream lather. You could cut the palm and add in some coco butter, but it is just without the butter. Hard bars do not represent long lasting soap, it is how soluble the soap formula is. Coconut Oil which creates a very hard soap is very soluble and disappears quickly, but is the reason it is used as a salt water soap for Sailors.


For me it's not about getting the bar to last longer, or anything like that. This is strictly a texture issue. 

I never realized that soap even *could* have such a variety of different textures and finishes. I also never would have guessed that I'd care, but I really do! 

It all sort of came to a head for me when I was moving all the soaps I've made into the new guest room area we created for them to sit and cure (to free up the pantry shelves, which were getting cramped!) Since I was moving each and every bar, I got to touch each and every bar. I took the opportunity to look them all over, note which soaps were which recipes (I put post-its next to the bars), and really *think* about what I liked or didn't like. 

I realized every time I thought 'ooh, I like this one' it was not about weight, shape, whether it was beveled or not, it wasn't about colour, additives, enbeds, it was ALWAYS the texture. And, even more, the few bars that genuinely turn me off are all from the same basic recipe, and they've cured out a little bit spongy so far. Their texture positively grosses me out. For all I know, they'll be gorgeous and dense, smooth and beautiful in a few months. I don't care -- if they have to go through an ugly-duckling squishy stage, they're not for me. 

I find a close second to the smooth, silky, almost waxy bars that I like are 100% coconut soaps. I love how hard they are, I love the translucency, I think they look stunning with bright colours and glittery micas in swirls and dots. Unfortunately, while I LOVE the way my coconut bars *feel*, and I really like making coconut soap, if I use it I may as well take a sandblaster to my skin. I'm just so dry, and it's so good at being soap, that we don't get on well.


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## cmzaha (Nov 23, 2017)

Palm is the oil that really gives a waxy feel. Lard will make a slick feeling soap as will vegetable shortening. Tallow will lend a cleansing factor hence my going lower with the PKO or CO, and will leave you a nice hard bar. Why not start with a tiny batch of 100% palm so you will know how it feels. To me it feels quite waxy but very hard to work up a lather which is the reason I mix it with tallow. Another hard bar I make is 37% Palm, 18% PKO, 30% liquid oil, Cocoa Butter 10%, Castor Oil 5%. The higher the water the hotter it gels risking volcanoes, separation, or alligator teeth (inside leaking cavern). It takes time and patience to finally hit on the recipe that one can deem perfect, but then maybe some just luck out and get it right the first time, or so they think  Your approximate 33% lye concentration is what many of us work with and for me I have to force gel. I am guessing your fo overheated, I know I had a Cherry Blossom, at one time, whick was a big troublemaker


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## lathered_up (Nov 23, 2017)

For a waxy  looking bar, I  swear by mango seed butter. A little pricey, but a little goes a long way. One of my favorite bars had 9% mango butter, 14% palm oil, and 24% coconut oil  for my har oils.  Had an almost translucent, waxy texture.


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## SoapEh (Nov 23, 2017)

Oh, wow, I didn't even consider that it could have been the fragrance -- this one is new to me, I bought some flower scents for my mom for holiday gift soaps, and never got around to using this one until today. 

It's nice to know that it may be the FO, because I quite like the texture of the soap so far! It looks and feels like it's going to cure into just the type of bar I adore. Lucky for my mom, I feel like the pattern is a total dud (I just knew it!) so she's very likely going to end up with the entire batch minus one piece I will keep to test at various intervals


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## Primrose (Nov 23, 2017)

Big tallow fan here, makes for a super super hard waxy bar. I love that hard waxy bar too. 
I've found it to be deceptively cleansing, so be careful about pairing it with other cleansing oils such as coconut


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## Nanditasr (Mar 27, 2018)

cmzaha said:


> Hard bars do not represent long lasting soap, it is how soluble the soap formula is. Coconut Oil which creates a very hard soap is very soluble and disappears quickly, but is the reason it is used as a salt water soap for Sailors.


Indeed, I have found my 100% CO soap and (even those with 20% CO) rather soluble, while my non-CO soap can practically sit in water and not dissolve. Is there a way to calculate how soluble a soap formula will be, or a list of oils with their solubility rating?


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## DeeAnna (Mar 27, 2018)

_"...Is there a way to calculate how soluble a soap formula will be, or a list of oils with their solubility rating?..."_

It's not about the oils, speaking in a strict sense. It's about the proportions of the various fatty acids in the recipe. 

A moderate % of stearic and palmitic acids in the recipe is the key to making soap with decent longevity and lower solubility while still lathering nicely. Although some fats have higher stearic and palmitic content (lard, palm, tallow, the butters) than others, it's really immaterial where these fatty acids come from.

I typically look for a combined % of stearic and palmitic in the low to mid 30% range when creating a basic bath soap.


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## Nanditasr (Mar 27, 2018)

DeeAnna said:


> _"...Is there a way to calculate how soluble a soap formula will be, or a list of oils with their solubility rating?..."_
> 
> A moderate % of stearic and palmitic acids in the recipe is the key to making soap with decent longevity and lower solubility while still lathering nicely...I typically look for a combined % of stearic and palmitic in the low to mid 30% range when creating a basic bath soap.


Thanks; I'll bear that in mind.


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## MorpheusPA (Mar 27, 2018)

Keep in mind, we all differ.  DeeAnna likes about 30%.  I just blasted together a soap with 42% palmitic and stearic.  You could dent the floor with this stuff.


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## cmzaha (Mar 27, 2018)

I use 30-36% in my soaps stearic /palmitic


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## pecanpie (Mar 27, 2018)

Whatever recipe you like, bump the sodium lactate to 3% and it will be quite hard. If you hot process the soap you'll have pretty a stout bar by morning.

Since the bars will be hard as f*** , a silicone mold will help as will some mold release (mineral oil).

As for being "natural' sodium lactate is just the sodium salt of lactic acid, the stuff we eat in yogurt and sourdough all the time.


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## Nanditasr (Mar 27, 2018)

MorpheusPA said:


> Keep in mind, we all differ.  DeeAnna likes about 30%.  I just blasted together a soap with 42% palmitic and stearic.  You could dent the floor with this stuff.


Oh, certainly! I too find that my favourite soaps have >40%  palmitic and stearic -- that's because I use palmolein (inexpensive, and I like the feel) and neem oil.


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## DeeAnna (Mar 28, 2018)

Hermmmm....  It bothers me to be misquoted. 

I didn't say "about 30%." I said* low to mid 30% range*. To me, this means anywhere from 31% up to 37%.

Just to set the record straight.


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## MorpheusPA (Mar 28, 2018)

Sorry, so sorry.  Yeah, low to mid 30% range.  Straightened record and all that.  I was wrong, you are right.


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## DeeAnna (Mar 28, 2018)

My thanks, Morpheus!


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## maxine289 (Apr 5, 2018)

MorpheusPA said:


> That sounds good, actually!  Keep the palm high for some hardness, keep the coconut and/or pko high for more hardness (but also high lather and heavy cleansing).
> 
> Honestly, even pure olive cures rock hamrd (as in, could pound nails with it) in six to twelve months.
> 
> ...





Susie said:


> Are you completely averse to using animal fats?  If not, I have a recipe for you!





Susie said:


> Are you completely averse to using animal fats?  If not, I have a recipe for you!






Susie said:


> Are you completely averse to using animal fats?  If not, I have a recipe for you!


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## dixiedragon (Apr 5, 2018)

I have found that 5% beeswax makes a lovely hard bar. But 10% is too much and makes a soft bar. I have no idea why that is!

Also, clove EO makes a very hard bar.


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## madison (Apr 5, 2018)

dixiedragon said:


> I have found that 5% beeswax makes a lovely hard bar. But 10% is too much and makes a soft bar. I have no idea why that is!
> 
> Also, clove EO makes a very hard bar.



May I ask, do you make swirls with 5% beeswax, if yes, how do you mange that? have you noticed any correlation between using beeswax and having soda ash, if you had any? I started recently experimenting with beeswax still at 1% though.


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## maxine289 (Apr 5, 2018)

Susie said:


> Are you completely averse to using animal fats?  If not, I have a recipe for you!


Hi, I'm curious to know what your suggested recipe is.  I use lard all the time and find it makes an nice hard bar.  I usually use 50% lard, 25% OO, 15% CO, 5% shea butter, 5% castor oil.
(sorry for the earlier empty replies.  was using a cell phone at the time and couldn't figure out how to navigate)



Saranac said:


> Morpheus' recipe looks good.  In fact, it's exactly what my first SW recipe looked like.  I now use soy wax in all of my bars but at closer to 40%.  It makes great soap that is rock hard in 6-8 weeks.


Are you using the soy wax that you would use to make candles???


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## earlene (Apr 5, 2018)

maxine289 said:


> Are you using the soy wax that you would use to make candles???



I am not *Saranac*, but in case she doesn't have a chance to answer right away, there are a few posts she has made regarding the use of soy wax in soaps and has generously shared information.  I will link one of those posts, which should address the question until she comes along to expand.

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/practice-makes-perfect-disasters.63560/page-3#post-649240
In fact, I suggest reading that entire thread, as there is a lot of information in it about using soywax in soap.

Also in another thread, she posted this about soywax soap: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/thr...alling-all-soy-wax-soapers.68900/#post-683845

In both those threads she mentions the type of soy wax she uses.  Some soy wax for candles has additives that I think would skew your SAP values, if not change the performance of your soap, so I have not used anything except the 415 soy wax myself, which was of course at *Saranac*'s suggestion.


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## Susie (Apr 6, 2018)

maxine289 said:


> Hi, I'm curious to know what your suggested recipe is.  I use lard all the time and find it makes an nice hard bar.  I usually use 50% lard, 25% OO, 15% CO, 5% shea butter, 5% castor oil.
> (sorry for the earlier empty replies.  was using a cell phone at the time and couldn't figure out how to navigate)



My favorite recipe (with variations) is this:

Lard 40-65%
GV Shortening (with palm and tallow), optional 25 %
Olive Oil 15%
Coconut Oil 15%
Castor Oil 5%

Superfat 5%

I normally do use the GV shortening, as I like the bubbles, and it makes the bars harder.  But it is not necessary.  I like my lardy bars just fine.


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## amd (Apr 6, 2018)

Glad I'm not the only one who likes the GV shortening! While I don't use it in my store soaps, I do use it in personal use soaps for the bathroom sinks. I have been very impressed with its longevity - the last batch I made was 2 years ago and those haven't shown any signs of DOS. (Or maybe that was my mistake thinking the shortening would cause it.)


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## madison (Apr 6, 2018)

I always avoided GV shortening because I thought it would cause DOS, I didn't know it doesn't. Where do you buy it and how do you use it in the calc.?


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## penelopejane (Apr 6, 2018)

It doesn’t get DOS because it contains BHA.


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## amd (Apr 6, 2018)

GV is Great Value brand at Walmart. They have two - one is called 'Shortening' and the other is called 'Vegetable Shortening'. I've used both with the same results. In soapcalc GV Shortening is listed in the oils as 



 . The vegetable version is not in the calc, so I use Crisco New. I'm not sure if that's the correct thing to do, but so far it hasn't bit me in the keister.


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## Susie (Apr 8, 2018)

Why would you not use GV Shortening in your bars to sell?  Just list the ingredients tallow and palm oil, and keep on making it!  I would!  Matter of fact, when I was planning to sell, I was developing recipes with more hardness than I usually care about at home when I found out how much I love using it.


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## madison (Apr 8, 2018)

Susie said:


> Why would you not use GV Shortening in your bars to sell?  Just list the ingredients tallow and palm oil, and keep on making it!  I would!  Matter of fact, when I was planning to sell, I was developing recipes with more hardness than I usually care about at home when I found out how much I love using it.



Do you choose  Crisco, new w/ palm option in soapee calc.?


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## Susie (Apr 9, 2018)

madison said:


> Do you choose  Crisco, new w/ palm option in soapee calc.?



I use the kind that has the palm and tallow.  So I use the Walmart GV Shortening option.  It is way down in the bottom 1/4 of the list.


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## madison (Apr 9, 2018)

Susie said:


> I use the kind that has the palm and tallow.  So I use the Walmart GV Shortening option.  It is way down in the bottom 1/4 of the list.



Look like I don't need to adjust anything, it's like choosing any other oil. Thank you Susie.


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## BrewerGeorge (Apr 9, 2018)

I  use both GV shortenings.  The palm and tallow one is directly in Soapcalc.  This is my primary and makes an excellent balanced bar with lard, coconut and olive/safflower.

For the vegetable one, I use 'Crisco, New' for vegan soaps.  While it may not be a perfect match, I've done it half a dozen times without any hint of lye-heavy soap.  Typically about 40% GV veg, 20% coconut, 25% olive/safflower, 5% castor, 10% shea.  The only downside to the GV veg is that it's pretty quick to trace, even with the recipe above having 25% oleic oil.


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## madison (Apr 9, 2018)

BrewerGeorge said:


> I  use both GV shortenings.  The palm and tallow one is directly in Soapcalc.  This is my primary and makes an excellent balanced bar with lard, coconut and olive/safflower.
> 
> For the vegetable one, I use 'Crisco, New' for vegan soaps.  While it may not be a perfect match, I've done it half a dozen times without any hint of lye-heavy soap.  Typically about 40% GV veg, 20% coconut, 25% olive/safflower, 5% castor, 10% shea.  The only downside to the GV veg is that it's pretty quick to trace, even with the recipe above having 25% oleic oil.



Thank you BG. How much % palm: tallow in GV shortening? I do have quick trace problem with my recipes that I use higher hard oils than my regular amounts. I started using 30% lye solution to deal with that, it helps a little. May I ask how much your lye concentration is? (Only if you like to share).


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## BrewerGeorge (Apr 9, 2018)

I don't know the percentage of palm vs tallow in the GV shortening.  It might not even be guaranteed the same between batches; who knows? But since they have the same saponification number, it doesn't matter as far as safety is concerned.

I make almost everything at 33% lye solution.


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## maxine289 (Apr 10, 2018)

earlene said:


> I am not *Saranac*, but in case she doesn't have a chance to answer right away, there are a few posts she has made regarding the use of soy wax in soaps and has generously shared information.  I will link one of those posts, which should address the question until she comes along to expand.
> 
> https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/practice-makes-perfect-disasters.63560/page-3#post-649240
> In fact, I suggest reading that entire thread, as there is a lot of information in it about using soywax in soap.
> ...


Thanks very much.  I'll take a look at the threads.


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## Vaibhav Jain (Jul 11, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> 40% Palm Oil, 30% tallow, 10% Coconut oil, 5% castor oil and 15% whatever soft oil you like will give a hard long lasting bar of soap with bubbly cream lather. You could cut the palm and add in some coco butter, but it is just without the butter. Hard bars do not represent long lasting soap, it is how soluble the soap formula is. Coconut Oil which creates a very hard soap is very soluble and disappears quickly, but is the reason it is used as a salt water soap for Sailors.


what if I use 70% palm oil, 15% Rice bran oil, 10% coconut oil and 5% castor oil ?


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## cmzaha (Jul 12, 2019)

Vaibhav Jain said:


> what if I use 70% palm oil, 15% Rice bran oil, 10% coconut oil and 5% castor oil ?


70% palm is going to make a very quick tracing batter and a waxy bar. 100% palm does not lather so with 70% and 10% Coconut the bar may not lather well. I would up the RBO to 20%-25% with 15% CO.


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## Vaibhav Jain (Jul 14, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> 70% palm is going to make a very quick tracing batter and a waxy bar. 100% palm does not lather so with 70% and 10% Coconut the bar may not lather well. I would up the RBO to 20%-25% with 15% CO.


ok... i've prepared this recipe . please see and tell whether it is okay or need any correction.


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## steffamarie (Jul 14, 2019)

20% castor is a lot and might make the bar tacky. I wouldn't go above 10.


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## Vaibhav Jain (Jul 14, 2019)

steffamarie said:


> 20% castor is a lot and might make the bar tacky. I wouldn't go above 10.


than whats the option for such a great lather. 
how's if I use 2.5% sodium chloride in water before adding lye in this recipe .... will the bar still be tacky.


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## dibbles (Jul 14, 2019)

I noticed that you have KOH selected for your lye. If you are making bar soap, you want to use NaOH. I agree with steffamarie to lower your castor to 10% or less. I use 5%. Castor will stabilize lather, but it doesn't create it. You get lather from oils like coconut, palm kernel (different than palm oil) and babassu. With 30% coconut oil, you should have nice bubbles. You can boost bubbles by dissolving sugar in your batch water before adding the lye. I use 1-2 tsp per pound of oils.


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## Vaibhav Jain (Jul 14, 2019)

dibbles said:


> I noticed that you have KOH selected for your lye. If you are making bar soap, you want to use NaOH. I agree with steffamarie to lower your castor to 10% or less. I use 5%. Castor will stabilize lather, but it doesn't create it. You get lather from oils like coconut, palm kernel (different than palm oil) and babassu. With 30% coconut oil, you should have nice bubbles. You can boost bubbles by dissolving sugar in your batch water before adding the lye. I use 1-2 tsp per pound of oils.


oh sorry... i posted wrong screenshot, though the oil's ratio is correct. thanks for input.


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## cmzaha (Jul 14, 2019)

I would use less Salt since it deters lather. I use 1.1% Sorbitol in my bars for lather but sugar also works. Since I do not usually go much over 17% CO I need the boost. Castor Oil does not add bubbles, it supports lather and works just fine in the 5% range as Dibbles mentioned above. Your CO percentage would be too much and will make a more soluble bar. This means it will not last as long.


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## dibbles (Jul 14, 2019)

Going off the oils you used in your example, this might be something to try - 22% coconut oil, 30% palm oil, 5% castor oil, 31% olive oil, 12% rice bran oil. Add sugar at 1 - 2 tsp PPO or if you have access to aloe juice replace your water with that to boost the bubbles.


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## Vaibhav Jain (Jul 14, 2019)

dibbles said:


> Going off the oils you used in your example, this might be something to try - 22% coconut oil, 30% palm oil, 5% castor oil, 31% olive oil, 12% rice bran oil. Add sugar at 1 - 2 tsp PPO or if you have access to aloe juice replace your water with that to boost the bubbles.


i used once aloe juice in place of water but as I added lye to it it turned yellow. I also kept the aloe juice in freezer and then used (though it was still in liquid form and not turned into ice), but that also didn't work. so please guide how to use it. If u can upload a video here, it will be very helpful.


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## dibbles (Jul 14, 2019)

Vaibhav Jain said:


> i used once aloe juice in place of water but as I added lye to it it turned yellow. I also kept the aloe juice in freezer and then used (though it was still in liquid form and not turned into ice), but that also didn't work. so please guide how to use it. If u can upload a video here, it will be very helpful.


I haven't used aloe since I started using sugar, but I don't remember having any discoloration problems. If it did turn yellow when the lye was added, it didn't seem to make a difference in the finished soap. Here are a couple of videos, and I'm sure your own search on YouTube will turn up more.



In Ophelia's Soapery, she added TD to the lye solution. In the other it doesn't appear that she had a problem with discoloration. I never froze my aloe juice. I have found that the color that some additives turn when the lye is introduced usually don't stay that color. Honey is a great example of this - it turns bright orange. It can be surprising when it happens though.


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