# Muscle pain relief cream



## PerthMobility (Apr 22, 2016)

It's a pain getting old, literally. Would some kind person please help me with formulating Arnica, Eucalyptus, Emu Oil and Menthol into a pain relieving rub/cream, please. I will need percentages plus sufficants, emulsifiers and preservatives if appropriate as well, please.


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## PerthMobility (Apr 22, 2016)

I found this great thread. I will try and adapt to my ingredients.

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=43010


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## Misschief (Apr 22, 2016)

I make a muscle rub using menthol crystals and a bunch of other ingredients but it's taken me a few years to develop my recipe; there's no way I'll ever share it. I will say that it is one of the few things that helps my husband's severely damaged and circulation-challenged feet (from a bad break as the result of a skiing accident many years ago).

That reminds me - I need to order more menthol crystals.


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## Seawolfe (Apr 22, 2016)

I basicially start with butters and oils and a recipe like this one: http://healthimpactnews.com/2012/pain-relieving-coconut-oil-arnica-salve-recipe/  or this: http://realfoodoutlaws.com/how-to-make-a-pain-relieving-salve/ 
and go from there. I infuse the oils for quite a bit, and I also do use wintergreen EO - which isn't for everyone but I adore it.


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## cmzaha (Apr 22, 2016)

I would recommend doing a lot of research since you are now entering the OTC drug arena. When customers ask me for a pain balm I suggest they purchase a brand name that has testing and insurance backing them. Wintergreen, capsicum, cayenne pepper, menthol can be dangerous if not used correctly. Emu Oil will act as a carrier to bypass our normal skin barrier so you really need to know the dosage of ingredients used and the carrier is necessary to get the active ingredients to the layer of pain. Pain Balms usually contain an Anti inflammatory, Analgesic, Anti-oxidant, have anti-neuralgic component, and a blood circulation promoter Hopefully you have insurance if selling or even giving away such products, but your insurance will probably be nullified if there is a problem because it is a drug. One of the best way to research is to check patents on some of the commercially available balms/creams.

You might be interested in this recipe  http://library.essentialwholesale.c...uscle-ointment-recipe-castorlatum-now-10-off/


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## lenarenee (Apr 22, 2016)

She's absolutely correctly; emu oil is what pharmacies often use for making transdermal prescription patches.


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## PerthMobility (Apr 22, 2016)

Given that I am dealing with a toxic oil in Arnica, I have chickened out from using the range of infused blends on the market and ordered some 100% pure EO from Rock Health Products in NY. Not cheap by the time I use DHL but a little bit goes a long way, I hope.

At least this way I am quite sure of my final formulation and can add my own carrier, in  my case Emu Oil.


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## SuzieOz (Apr 24, 2016)

Misschief said:


> I make a muscle rub using menthol crystals and a bunch of other ingredients but it's taken me a few years to develop my recipe; there's no way I'll ever share it. I will say that it is one of the few things that helps my husband's severely damaged and circulation-challenged feet (from a bad break as the result of a skiing accident many years ago).



You posted this in reply to a (nearly) 80 year old man who is in pain for what reason?

I don't get it ... :?


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## PerthMobility (Apr 24, 2016)

Hey, you are lovely person Suzie and I thank you, but I think I have gone one better with my recipe.  I will most certainly publish mine for the benefit of this wonderful community just as soon as I have tried it on my own knees and things. 

If they don't dissolve or catch fire or something I will be good to publicise. It is based on Arnica and Emu of course. More soon.


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## SuzieOz (Apr 24, 2016)

Great, I'll be praying your knees don't catch fire then, Mac


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## cgpeanut (Apr 25, 2016)

SuzieOz said:


> You posted this in reply to a (nearly) 80 year old man who is in pain for what reason?
> 
> I don't get it ... :?



How would you know this poster was an 80 year old man?????  From the profile? Not me.   If someone formulates a formula they are under no obligation to share it unless they want to. Now if it was me I would not have posted anything if I didn't want to share, but just saying the guilt trick didn't work on me.


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## susanje (Apr 25, 2016)

cgpeanut said:


> How would you know this poster was an 80 year old man?????  From the profile? Not me.   If someone formulates a formula they are under no obligation to share it unless they want to. Now if it was me I would not have posted anything if I didn't want to share, but just saying the guilt trick didn't work on me.



Right.  I understand not sharing recipes to some degree (I believe everyone should share basic recipes as it was shared with us when we began) but I don't understand announcing yes, I have a recipe but I'm not giving it to you.

I make my own muscle balm and it did take me a very long time to come up with my recipe.  I use infused oils that I make with beeswax to make a salve as the base for the oil.  I've seen others say you can use petroleum jelly as the basis.    I would warn that when testing this, it takes about 20 minutes for the cooling to kick in and it's hard to really gauge the correct amount of menthol chips and/or essential oils.   So start out lightly and add as time goes on.  

Anyway, the active ingredients in any muscle balms are usually menthol chips and then a combination of essential oils.  For my mild muscle balm I melt a tsp of  menthol chips into a half cup of salve.  I then add a few drops of cajeput essential oil and clovebud essential oil and that seems to be fine.   If I want it stronger I will add cassia (cinnamon) eo, wintergreen e.o., peppermint e.o., eucalyptus eo.   The cassia is the ingredient that makes RED Tiger Balm versus regular Tiger Balm.   It takes a long time to figure out how each ingredient affects the product as a whole.

What I suggest...and this is from months of trying recipes and having different strengths at different times:

1. Come up with the best medium as a base.  If you don't want to make your own, you can use petroleum jelly.  You can also use some shea butter as a base to melt menthol chips.  I use my own herbal infused oils and  beeswax to make a salve.  Depending on the strength I need I will use comfrey-infused oil, arnica infused oil or calendula infused oil.  But you can use an ounce of beeswax in a cup of any oil (olive oil, sweet almond etc) without it being infused first.  
2.   I melt some menthol chips (starting with a teaspoon per half cup base) into the base and mix well.
3.   This alone would make an okay muscle balm.  To make it stronger, add a few drops of cajeput essential oil and clovebud essential oil.
4.   You don't need anything else but you can add any kind of mints (peppermints, wintergreen etc) or eucalyptus and even lavender.
5.   For extra heat add a drop or two of cassia (or cinnamon).  This can be very irritating but effective for muscle aches so make sure you use very little and mix well.  

My experience is that I needed a lot of trial and error to get it right.   All you really need is petroleum jelly and some menthol chips but a well-rounded balm will include clovebud and cajeput  and maybe a wintergreen or peppermint.

I had a list  at one point of the different combinations and how it effected me.  WARNING:  most of these balms take a few minutes to "kick in" so don't go overboard at first.   Leave it on at least 20 minutes before you decide to add more menthol or EOs.  It took me a long, long time to figure out how each ingredient would affect the end product.


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## Misschief (Apr 25, 2016)

susanje said:


> Right.  I understand not sharing recipes to some degree (I believe everyone should share basic recipes as it was shared with us when we began) but I don't understand announcing yes, I have a recipe but I'm not giving it to you.



Yeah, shortly after I submitted it, I realized I probably shouldn't have.

I am more than happy to share most of my recipes (and do) but there are some recipes I've spent a lot of time developing. Those I guard.


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## PerthMobility (Apr 25, 2016)

cgpeanut said:


> How would you know this poster was a (near) 80 year old man?????  From the profile? Not me.



She does and she is correct. L2-3 and in a wheelchair. But pleaseeee do not start a punch up on my account.


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## SuzieOz (Apr 25, 2016)

Misschief said:


> Yeah, shortly after I submitted it, I realized I probably shouldn't have.



Yeah, same. I should have sent a PM or something. Retrospect - it's a beautiful thing. My apologies to Misschief and Mac.

According to my husband who is Canadian, we Aussies tend to jump in mouth first and can come across as brusque (even rude :think sometimes when it's the last thing we're trying to be. He's been in the country for over 20 years and he still has trouble understanding our humour.

I'd certainly never hurt anyone on purpose and I'm very sorry if I've done that.


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## cgpeanut (Apr 28, 2016)

susanje said:


> Right.  I understand not sharing recipes to some degree (I believe everyone should share basic recipes as it was shared with us when we began) but I don't understand announcing yes, I have a recipe but I'm not giving it to you.
> 
> I make my own muscle balm and it did take me a very long time to come up with my recipe.  I use infused oils that I make with beeswax to make a salve as the base for the oil.  I've seen others say you can use petroleum jelly as the basis.    I would warn that when testing this, it takes about 20 minutes for the cooling to kick in and it's hard to really gauge the correct amount of menthol chips and/or essential oils.   So start out lightly and add as time goes on.
> 
> ...



This is pretty close to the ingredient list that I use.  I do add camphor and use Arnica infused oil ( in my case olive)


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## TeresaT (Apr 28, 2016)

PerthMobility - Have you tried dandelion flower oil?  (Uh, do you even have dandelions in Australia?)  Last summer, I was at a farmer's market here in town and I purchased some "dandelion flower salve."  The woman I purchased it from said it was a pain reliever and her grandfather swears by it for his arthritis.  Since I have all kinds of issues, I decided to give it a go.  Oh. My. Gosh.  Awesomeness in a jar!!  I went online and ordered dandelion flower infused oil and gave it to my friend. She has severe arthritis and it helped her with her pain.  (She's just had her knee and hip replaced, Feb & 2 weeks ago respectively.)  I bought some dandelion flowers on Etsy and have made my own oil (12 oz sweet almond with 4 oz dandelion flowers).  The oil works wonders.   Someone here on this forum makes a dandelion salve (I don't remember who it is).  You can find a recipe here: https://thenerdyfarmwife.com/dandelion-salve-recipe/. (actually, I think this is where she go her recipe.)  Good luck and I hope this helps or at least gives you some ideas.  Personally, I would avoid the menthol, wintergreen and camphor (I don't even know what arnica is!) since they are a bit on the "not-so-safe" side...


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## Misschief (Apr 28, 2016)

TeresaT said:


> PerthMobility - Have you tried dandelion flower oil?  (Uh, do you even have dandelions in Australia?)  Last summer, I was at a farmer's market here in town and I purchased some "dandelion flower salve."  The woman I purchased it from said it was a pain reliever and her grandfather swears by it for his arthritis.  Since I have all kinds of issues, I decided to give it a go.  Oh. My. Gosh.  Awesomeness in a jar!!  I went online and ordered dandelion flower infused oil and gave it to my friend. She has severe arthritis and it helped her with her pain.  (She's just had her knee and hip replaced, Feb & 2 weeks ago respectively.)  I bought some dandelion flowers on Etsy and have made my own oil (12 oz sweet almond with 4 oz dandelion flowers).  The oil works wonders.   Someone here on this forum makes a dandelion salve (I don't remember who it is).  You can find a recipe here: https://thenerdyfarmwife.com/dandelion-salve-recipe/. (actually, I think this is where she go her recipe.)  Good luck and I hope this helps or at least gives you some ideas.  Personally, I would avoid the menthol, wintergreen and camphor (I don't even know what arnica is!) since they are a bit on the "not-so-safe" side...




Funny you should mention this... I have some dandelions infusing in sweet almond oil right now so I can make that very salve for my husband. I know there are places dandelion's don't grow (that's not an issue around here, believe me!); I've seen dandelion seeds in seed catalogues and shake my head in wonder. I'm happy to hear it works well.


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## SuzieOz (Apr 28, 2016)

TeresaT said:


> (Uh, do you even have dandelions in Australia?)



Uh, just all over our lawns ... like everywhere! ... wow I didn't even know all this about dandelions Teresa, thanks. I'll have to go outside and pick me some dandelions.

I'm supposing dandelions are the same thing everywhere though, hopefully not another name for a different flower? Like "squash" in Canada being a butternut pumpkin in Australia. ... Just a thought.


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## Misschief (Apr 29, 2016)

SuzieOz said:


> Like "squash" in Canada being a butternut pumpkin in Australia. ... Just a thought.



I'm in Canada and there are a lot of different kinds of squash here...butternut is a squash... um.. and a whole lot of others, too. We don't call butternut a pumpkin, though. It's a squash. Pumpkin is a type of squash.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Apr 29, 2016)

Here they are called "lion's teeth" which I first thought was very different from dandelion, being something to do with a dandy lion. As it turns out, dandelion comes from the French for "lion's teeth"! - dent du lion


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## SuzieOz (Apr 29, 2016)

Well there you go! Could be a good name for a soap ... "Lion's Teeth" ... or not


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## Navaria (Apr 29, 2016)

BF has lots of aches and pains. Too many on-the-job injuries. He's been using the otc pain creams and stinks like an old man (no offense Mac ) I asked him last night if he would try this if I made it and he was all about it! Too bad he mowed at home yesterday and there are no dandelions at the campground. I wonder if people will think I'm nuts if I stop and pick some from along the road lol


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## Misschief (Apr 29, 2016)

Navaria said:


> BF has lots of aches and pains. Too many on-the-job injuries. He's been using the otc pain creams and stinks like an old man (no offense Mac ) I asked him last night if he would try this if I made it and he was all about it! Too bad he mowed at home yesterday and there are no dandelions at the campground. I wonder if people will think I'm nuts if I stop and pick some from along the road lol



Personally, I wouldn't pick along a road, whether it's dandelions or brambles or anything edible. I don't like the thought of all those exhaust fumes on and permeating anything I'll be applying or eating. 

We have a large yard with an empty grassy field and plenty of dandelions. Right now, though, they've all gone to seed. I have to wait for the next round of flowers, which shouldn't be long.


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## Navaria (Apr 29, 2016)

Oh I was joking when I said it. Not only the exhaust fumes and goodness knows what dump/thrown out of a vehicle, but also any runoff from farm fields. Yeck! I just found the idea of a grown woman pulled over along the highway picking dandelions humorous lol

ETA: I agree it won't be long until the dang things are back in full force. Since he mowed yesterday I would say by tomorrow. At least some good can come from them now lol


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## TeresaT (Apr 29, 2016)

SuzieOz said:


> Uh, just all over our lawns ... like everywhere! ... wow I didn't even know all this about dandelions Teresa, thanks. *I'll have to go outside and pick me some dandelions.
> 
> *
> Let them dry for a few days first.  Dandelion flowers are very high in  water.  You don't want to introduce that water into your oil because  then it may cause bacteria or mold formation.  You can stick them in a  warm oven for several hours to help the process along, but keep an eye  on them because you don't want them completely dried out.  Just pretty  wilted.
> ...



I hope so.  Dandelions here in the States are weeds that have yellow flowers.  When they turn to seed (petals fall off?) they look like cottony wisps.  When the wind blows, it blows the seeds all over the place.  We used to call them "wishes" when we were kids.  The idea is you made a wish and blew on the dandelion head.  If all of the seed heads came off, your wish would come true, if not, it wouldn't.  I still blow on dandelion heads.  (It's MY yard.  I can do what I want.)  

BTW:  Dandelions are very versatile and the greens are tasty, too.

ETA:  I am so glad y'all are finding that info  helpful.  Please let me know if the salve and/or oil is as helpful for you as it was for me.  I REALLY like the stuff.   Alas, unlike all of you fine folk, I am too lazy to forage for my own dandelions, so I purchase them from Etsy.  The nice thing about that is, they're already slightly dried and ready to infuse.  I actually have to check to see if my herbalist/forager/tree-hugger has any available.  Thank goodness for lazy people like me.  We keep the world working.


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## SuzieOz (Apr 29, 2016)

Yep, those are our dandelions too Teresa, and yes I still blow the seeds


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## PerthMobility (Apr 29, 2016)

Navaria said:


> He's been using the otc pain creams and stinks like an old man (no offense Mac ) lol



OK so you sprung me  I am absolutely fed up with the stench of camphor and the like. I am determined that I will make a "pain cream" that will not tell the whole shopping centre that I am on the way. 

My first effort smells of English Lavender and works just as well as my otc which is now heading for the rubbish bin. Admittedly Lavender is not really "me". I might try Musk next. That appeals to me a lot more. :mrgreen:


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## BlackDog (May 17, 2016)

I made thenerdyfarmwife's dandelion salve tonight. I can now say with authority that infused dandelion oil is among my least favorite smells ever. 

Hopefully the litsea EO I added will cover it lol! I was planning on blending lavender with it too but turns out I'm without lavender!

I can't wait until something hurts so I can try it out 

I made three jars so if it works, I can give one to my grandma and one to my beeswax supplier.


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## penelopejane (May 18, 2016)

BlackDog said:


> I made thenerdyfarmwife's dandelion salve tonight. I can now say with authority that infused dandelion oil is among my least favorite smells ever.
> 
> Hopefully the litsea EO I added will cover it lol! I was planning on blending lavender with it too but turns out I'm without lavender!
> 
> ...


She has a great site with lots of helpful info but when you dig deeper into making say the pumpkin soap it's not pumpkin alone it's colour added as well! 

Congratulations on your salve!


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## HelenA (May 24, 2016)

PerthMobility said:


> It's a pain getting old, literally. Would some kind person please help me with formulating Arnica, Eucalyptus, Emu Oil and Menthol into a pain relieving rub/cream, please. I will need percentages plus sufficants, emulsifiers and preservatives if appropriate as well, please.


I have made and sold a uscle pain relief cream. I had a lenghthy impressive has taken me out of the loop for over 2 years now however. I watched the Blue Emu commercial way back when and investigated the ingredients. Emu oil, MSM, menthol and I added peppermint. It works!!


HelenA said:


> I have made and sold a uscle pain relief cream. I had a lenghthy impressive has taken me out of the loop for over 2 years now however. I watched the Blue Emu commercial way back when and investigated the ingredients. Emu oil, MSM, menthol and I added peppermint. It works!!


Oh my goodness!! I need to re-read before posting!! It's a MUSCLE cream. And I was out of the loop after a very lengthy ILLNESS. Sorry...hope it now makes sense.


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## earlene (May 24, 2016)

Blackdog, that looks fabulous!  I want to try it someday, too.

I had to toss out my dandelion infusion that I was attempting because it grew mold.  I thought the dandelions were dry, but I guess they weren't completely dry after all.  Too bad.

I will have to try again, but haven't gathered any more dandelions after that happened.  Maybe I'll get lucky and my husband will skip a week mowing.  Not likely.  But if we could get a nice rainstorm a few days before he mows, I might be able to gather some that always pop up after a good rain (before his next day off which is when he mows.)

I'd purposely plant some, but he'd probably just mow them down or rip them out of my garden bed.


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## Dahila (May 24, 2016)

To make an oil infusion herbs must be really well dried.......
I dry my herbs  (I do it for 35 years) in my basement with low humidity.  I dry them for two to three weeks, from time to time they must be moved or turn or tossed different way
Bacteria, mold is very dangerous........Safety first


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## TeresaT (May 24, 2016)

Blackdog, that salve looks fabulous!  It is as bright and sunny yellow as the salve I bought last year.  I still have some of it left and it is great stuff.   Do let us know how your husband likes it.  I hope it works for him as well as mine did for me.  There is very little smell to the salve I bought, though.   I was surprised that the dandelion oil I purchased actually had a bit of an odor.  But I do like it because when I smell that, I know relief is on its way.  So, maybe you'll have that same kind of reaction once you figure out if it works for you.   

 (I've been "infusing" dandelion flowers for a year.  I guess I'd better get off my butt and strain the oil out of there and make something with it.  I've just taken a look at it and there is no mold growth or off odor.  Actually, there's no noticeable odor to it at all.  I've ignored it all this time because I had some left from last year.  Not so anymore...)


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## PerthMobility (May 24, 2016)

That really looks excellent, well done. Mine is just a white cream, but it really works. I hope I am allowed to post the label. Never quite sure of what is allowed. Sorry if not allowed.


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## Navaria (May 25, 2016)

I made the salve yesterday after 2 weeks of infusing my oil. I have plantar fasciitis and after a weekend in heels, major house cleaning, and walking at the campground my foot was killing me last night. I put some on before I put my dorsiwedge on, and within 15 minutes the pain had subsided greatly. I didn't limp at all when I got out of bed this morning! I'm in love!! I'm hoping some of my other aches and pains show up soon so I can try it on them too! And I really like the smell of dandelion infused oil. It reminds me of something from long ago, but I can't remember what. It's pleasant though. Must be something to do with my grandma


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