# Poured at very light trace - still feels soft



## Sonya-m (Jan 1, 2015)

After almost 24 hours. Is it just going to take longer because it was very light trace? It still felt warm after 18 hours. I'm worried it wasn't at trace now


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## Obsidian (Jan 1, 2015)

Soap doesn't need to be at trace to be successful, as long as its emulsified it will set up just fine. There are a number of things that effect set up time, I wouldn't worry unless its separated in the mold.
Give it some more time, I've had soap remain soft for a number of days.


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## PinkCupcake (Jan 1, 2015)

I often pour at thin trace. I don't think it makes much difference. But, I tend to use more water than many people here, because I use a lot of hard oils, and I'm kind of a slow worker, so it gives me a little more time. I hear people saying their soaps are ready to unmold & cut after 18 hours sometimes, but the soonest I can ever unmold is at least 24 hours, and then I leave the loaf sitting out, whole, for another day before I cut it.

tl/dr version: Don't worry. You're fine.


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## navigator9 (Jan 1, 2015)

Did the soap gel? If it didn't, the saponification process occurs much more slowly. The soap will be softer, it will be zappy, it won't unmold cleanly. It's just taking its time, but it will be fine....if gel is the issue, and it's not something like you goofed and added the water twice! lol And this is the main reason that I gel my soaps....the instant gratification. So cross your fingers, be patient, everything should be just fine.


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## lsg (Jan 1, 2015)

Also, soaps with a majority of soft oils tend to take longer to set up in the mold.

http://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/tips-and-tricks/formulating-cold-process-recipes/


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## Sonya-m (Jan 1, 2015)

It hasn't separated at least so hoping will be ok. I'm not sure if it gelled, I poured it around 3pm yesterday (uk time) and it still wasn't warm when I went out at 6.30pm. I did t look at it when I got in but was warm this morning. 

It's:

45% lard
30% olive oil
20% coconut oil
5% castor oil
SF 8%
Full water

Soaped at around 80F. 

I do want to start water discounting a little but worry I won't have time to swirl - is that the case?


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## lsg (Jan 1, 2015)

It sounds like it is going through the gel stage.  If you want more time to swirl use mostly liquid oils and don't discount the water.


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## Obsidian (Jan 1, 2015)

You might try a simple 2-3 color in the pot swirl with reduced water to see how it acts for you. If you soap cool, you should have time for basic swirls but I would stick with full water if doing multiple colors or more complex swirls.


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## Sonya-m (Jan 1, 2015)

Here it is now, it seems to be the bits at the edges that I poured first that still seem soft, the bits of the batter that is showing through where I swirled


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## IrishLass (Jan 1, 2015)

Sonya-m said:


> I do want to start water discounting a little but worry I won't have time to swirl - is that the case?



Sometimes, but definitely not always. For example, in my experience with the usual 33% lye solution that I use, I always have _plenty_ of time to swirl as long as my FO is one of the nicely-behaved ones. If you plan things accordingly by checking out the review boards first, and determine to purchase only those FOs that behave nicely (at least for the most part), you should have no problem getting nice swirls with a water discount, even those kinds of swirls that take time, like peacock swirls. The first peacock swirl I ever did was done using a Love Spell FO (I think from TheScentWorks), and I soaped with a 33% lye solution and had a good 30 minutes to swirl with it. It was awesome! The trick is just to plan ahead accordingly. Thankfully, there are plenty of FOs out there that behave well enough for water discounting. You just have to look for them.

IrishLass


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## lsg (Jan 1, 2015)

Very nice looking soap.


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## Sonya-m (Jan 1, 2015)

IrishLass said:


> Sometimes, but definitely not always. For example, in my experience with the usual 33% lye solution that I use, I always have _plenty_ of time to swirl as long as my FO is one of the nicely-behaved ones. If you plan things accordingly by checking out the review boards first, and determine to purchase only those FOs that behave nicely (at least for the most part), you should have no problem getting nice swirls with a water discount, even those kinds of swirls that take time, like peacock swirls. The first peacock swirl I ever did was done using a Love Spell FO (I think from TheScentWorks), and I soaped with a 33% lye solution and had a good 30 minutes to swirl with it. It was awesome! The trick is just to plan ahead accordingly. Thankfully, there are plenty of FOs out there that behave well enough for water discounting. You just have to look for them.
> 
> IrishLass




So in Soapcalc, a 33% lye solution is 27.5% water if I've done it right? That's a probably a bigger discount I should start with I'm guessing.


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## CaraBou (Jan 1, 2015)

Great swirls!  I agree with the Lass, swirling is very possible with a water discount as long as you plan things through.  I really dislike full water (especially in silicone molds) and rarely use it.  You could start with a small discount (e.g., 2%) and gradually increase it in subsequent batches to figure out what works best for your technique and recipe.


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## IrishLass (Jan 1, 2015)

Sonya-m said:


> So in Soapcalc, a 33% lye solution is 27.5% water if I've done it right?



Not to throw any confusion into the mix, but the answer to that is 'maybe yes' and 'maybe no'.  It changes depending on your formula. This is why I don't like using the 'water as % of oils' box on SoapCalc., and choose to only use the 'lye concentration' box to figure my water amount instead.

For example, if I make a Castile-type formula @ a 33% lye solution and look over at the 'water as % of oils' box, it says 28.36%.

But if I make a 100% CO formula at a 33% lye solution, the figure in the 'water as % of oils' box will say 35.34%.

And if I type in a lard formula at a 33% lye solution, the 'water as % of oils' box will say 29.10% 

Here is a great PDF that explains why calculating the water amount in your recipe according to the lye:water concentration is far superior and much more consistent than calculating based on oil:water amounts:

http://rivercitysoaps.com/dwcp/dwcp.pdf (start reading on page 2 of the PDF under the heading: "Besides Using Less Water" and then continue on reading down through page 3 and 4). This is the best explanation of this subject that I have ever run across.

HTH
IrishLass


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jan 1, 2015)

Another thing to bear in mind is that a slab mould lets the heat out. Saponification creates heat but it also is increased through heat, hence why it can sometimes go over the top as the reaction builds on itself. The process goes quickly. 

But with a slab mould it can stay cooler so the process takes more time. It will fully saponify, but will need time


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## Sonya-m (Jan 1, 2015)

IrishLass said:


> Not to throw any confusion into the mix, but the answer to that is 'maybe yes' and 'maybe no'.  It changes depending on your formula. This is why I don't like using the 'water as % of oils' box on SoapCalc., and choose to only use the 'lye concentration' box to figure my water amount instead.
> 
> For example, if I make a Castile-type formula @ a 33% lye solution and look over at the 'water as % of oils' box, it says 28.36%.
> 
> ...




 I still have so much to learn! I'm enjoying learning though. I've stuck with the same recipe for my last 3 batches so will try a stronger lye solution next time. 

Thanks for the link Irish, it was interesting and easy to understand.


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## Sonya-m (Jan 1, 2015)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Another thing to bear in mind is that a slab mould lets the heat out. Saponification creates heat but it also is increased through heat, hence why it can sometimes go over the top as the reaction builds on itself. The process goes quickly.
> 
> But with a slab mould it can stay cooler so the process takes more time. It will fully saponify, but will need time




Thanks, I hope it's ok cos I'm really pleased with the look on top but itching to see it cut


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## Obsidian (Jan 1, 2015)

It will be fine, its just taking its time. I bet if you zap test the soft stuff around the edges you'll find its still zappy.


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## Sonya-m (Jan 1, 2015)

Obsidian said:


> It will be fine, its just taking its time. I bet if you zap test the soft stuff around the edges you'll find its still zappy.




I should probably do this as I don't yet know what a zap feels like - is it unmistakable? Like I'm not gonna get zapped and not realise?


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## Obsidian (Jan 1, 2015)

Its unmistakable, if you have to wonder if its zappy, then its not.


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## PinkCupcake (Jan 1, 2015)

I think that your recipe can take a good water discount and still be fine. Lard and olive oil both trace reeeeeeaaaaally slowly, so you should have a good bit of time for swirling. Maybe start discounting each batch a tiny bit more than the last one, until you get to a place you like.

Your swirls are beautiful. Great job!


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## Sonya-m (Jan 2, 2015)

Thanks everyone 

It's not zappy but still very soft. Might pop it in the freezer for a while


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