# Getting ready to make my first liquid soap



## DawninWA (Sep 5, 2018)

I've been making soap for 4 years, and I want to venture into liquid soap.  I have 2 lbs of KOH coming on Friday.  

I want to use Palm Kernel Oil flakes, HO Safflower oil, and shea butter.  I also have olive oil, coconut oil, Great Value shortening, cocoa butter, palm oil and lard, I'd rather not use lard.  

Should I add other oils besides the first 3?  And I don't know what percentages of the three I should do.  I like high coconut in bars, we have hard water here.  Should the PKO be pretty high?  Can I go up to 40 or 50%?  

Something like:
40% PKO
50% Safflower
10% Shea
3% superfat (2%? I don't know)
?

Any red flags with this recipe?  Anything else I should be considering?  I'm using PKO instead of Coconut because my skin can be sensitive to coconut, and I have a bunch (of PKO) I'd like to use up.  I also don't care if it's cloudy or whatnot.

I'm planning to do cold process with water, it looks the easiest.

Thank you!
Dawn


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## KimT2au (Sep 5, 2018)

I've only made a couple of batches of LS, but as I understand it you cannot superfat unless it is a water soluble oil such as red turkey.  If you do superfat then once the LS sits for a bit the excess oil floats to the top.  I guess that is OK as long as you or the final consumer remembers to shake the bottle each time you use it.  As to the recipe itself I don't know enough to comment.  Good luck.


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## shunt2011 (Sep 5, 2018)

I SF my liquid soap at 2-3% with no issue.  Here's a great thread on amazingly easy LS.  It's a long thread but well worth reading.

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/my-creamy-cocoa-shea-gls-tutorial.57974/


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## DeeAnna (Sep 5, 2018)

That's my experience too -- superfatting at 3% or under is generally okay. If you superfat higher than that, it is likely to not work. If the superfat separates out, you may have to use polysorbate to emulsify/solubilize the fat or switch to a water-soluble fat (turkey red oil being an example.)


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## DawninWA (Sep 5, 2018)

Any feedback on the recipe?


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## DeeAnna (Sep 5, 2018)

Are you using regular safflower or high oleic safflower? 

If HO saff, it's not too bad of a recipe. There's going to be enough oleic acid so you can dilute it to a honey-thick soap. It's probably going to be more cleansing/stripping than I'd prefer, but that's a personal preference.

If regular (high linoleic) safflower, the soap is going to be more prone to rancidity. You may not be able to dilute it to a honey-thick consistency due to less oleic acid -- it may be thinner than you might want.

Refined shea may add cloudiness. Unrefined may add sediments that will settle out over time. You said cloudiness wasn't a deal killer for you, so this is a moot point.


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## DawninWA (Sep 5, 2018)

I wrote in the first paragraph (edit to add: sorry, second paragraph) that it was HO, but I didn't when I wrote out the recipe, I'll remember to do that in the future. 

I use it in place of olive oil in my bar soap, and I like it a little better.

Thank you, DeeAnna.  That was very helpful!


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## DeeAnna (Sep 5, 2018)

DawninWA said:


> I wrote in the first paragraph (edit to add: sorry, second paragraph) that it was HO....



Wups. I missed that -- I got focused on just the recipe and didn't re-read the post in full. Glad I could help.


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## DawninWA (Sep 7, 2018)

Well, darn, my lye order got delayed.  Amazon says it could still be here today, but UPS tracking says it was in Portland this morning, and it's unlikely.

I'm going to do less PKO, since I won't have that superfat to lean on.  Maybe just 20% PKO, 80% HO Safflower.

How well do animal fats work in liquid soap?  I love using the walmart shortening in soap, but I don't often use it in soaps I sell, because there are a lot of ingredients that scare people.  I also have a lot of it.  Can I use mostly this?  Like 20% PKO, 80% shortening?  It's mostly tallow, a little palm, and some BHA, BHT, and some other stabilizers.  I assume this would be cloudy.  

I'm also going to make a batch of 100% coconut for cleaning.  This would use less water to dilute, right, more of a 1:1?

Then I can experiment with butters later.


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## DeeAnna (Sep 7, 2018)

I've made liquid soap with 70% lard. Even when I added enough KOH to make the soap stay slightly lye heavy (slight zap), it wanted to separate into a white floating layer and a clear bottom layer. I'm not sure why, but my guess is the high % of stearic and palmitic acids. These fatty acids make soap that's not very soluble in water. Not sure if I'm right about that, but that's the best explanation I can think of at this point. The soap was nearly colorless like water -- not amber like typical liquid soap -- after I skimmed off the floating layer. It was nice enough soap to use for handwashing (after I got rid of the excess KOH).


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## DawninWA (Sep 7, 2018)

That must be why most liquid soap is vegetable based.

I took this extra few days (I'm assuming the lye will be here Monday), to infuse some herbs into the safflower oil.  I don't know if any of the properties will survive the lye, but it's fun.


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## DeeAnna (Sep 7, 2018)

DawninWA said:


> That must be why most liquid soap is vegetable based....



I would state this conclusion a little differently. Many liquid soap recipes for body use are some variation of coconut oil, olive, and castor. These recipes typically minimize or eliminate the palmitic and stearic fats such as palm, tallow, lard, and the butters (cocoa, shea, etc.) One reason for this is the desire for a clear soap, but a related reason is a greater chance for separation, if my guess is right.


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## msunnerstood (Sep 7, 2018)

DawninWA said:


> Any feedback on the recipe?


having some coconut oil in there will help it trace a bit faster.


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## DawninWA (Sep 7, 2018)

Won't the palm kernel oil do that? I'd rather not use coconut oil for this first batch.


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## DawninWA (Sep 10, 2018)

Here goes nothing.  Decided on 30% pko, 65% HO safflower, 5% shea butter.  1% superfat.  Traced really fast, let it sit, turned into what's in the photo after 25 minutes.  Not sure if it's done and cloudy because of the shea, or not done yet.  I'll leave it alone for about an hour and then zap test.  If it passes, I'll add 1:1 water and leave it until tomorrow.

Well, I was impatient, I decided to zap test.  It passed.  That was all very fast, and about the easiest soap I've ever made.


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## DawninWA (Sep 11, 2018)

It's almost done diluting.  I started with 25 oz of paste, first I added 25 oz of distilled water, then 10, then in 5 oz increments and now it's at 2:1.  It's almost there, I'll add in tiny increments from here on out.  I like the recipe, it's not drying but is cleansing.

I'm in the process of making another batch, it stopped separating and I'm just waiting for it to gel.  It is 100% coconut oil 0% superfat, for dishes.





We have soap!


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## DeeAnna (Sep 11, 2018)

Good job!


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## DawninWA (Sep 15, 2018)

The coconut oil soap finished pretty fast, with no complications.  I diluted some of it in a jar at 1:1 ratio.  It worked fine.  

I decided to do a batch of straight olive oil, and that was a little harder to do.  It took forever to stay together.  I started it at 4 pm last night, and at 8, I put it on the heat so it could cook and hopefully speed the process along.  Eventually, it was staying together.  At 5am, it had separated a little, but was mostly together.  At noon, it was still together, but like a thick pudding.  I left it alone until about 4 pm and it had gelled.  It didn't zap, so I put some in a jar with water, also at a 1:1 ratio.  I know it'll need more water, but I'll start with that. 

Three batches of soap will keep me stocked for a long time, and having the different kinds will allow me to see how each one acts.


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## Lankan (Sep 17, 2018)

DawninWA said:


> View attachment 31974
> 
> We have soap!



Hi I see you've scented the soap with several fragrances/EOs. did you add the Fragrance when diluting?. what about adding color.

Once I added water soluble color when making CPLS and let it sit for over month. I had some water separated from the soap paste together with the color. That's why I'm wondering which would be the best point to add color and fragrances. thank


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## DawninWA (Sep 17, 2018)

I diluted the whole batch, put it in bottles, then added the essential oils to each bottle.  

I have no idea about coloring the soap.


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## Lankan (Sep 18, 2018)

DawninWA said:


> I diluted the whole batch, put it in bottles, then added the essential oils to each bottle.
> 
> I have no idea about coloring the soap.



When you did this, did you encounter issues like EO not properly mixing with the soap and starting floating?


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## DawninWA (Sep 27, 2018)

Lankan, the lavender thickened up the soap a tiny bit, the citrus ones thinned it, the mints did nothing.  If it floats, I don't think I could tell, because the bottles aren't perfectly clear.

I tried using salt to thicken some soap today, only about a cup.  It worked, but it's much weaker soap, I prefer the thinner consistency but stronger soap.  Also, it's a little like washing with salt water, it finds all the little scratches you didn't know you had.


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## DawninWA (Sep 28, 2018)

Ok, a bunch of my posts in this thread got mashed together by a mod, so now I look like an idiot who doesn't know how to post on forums.  Awesome.

Sorry if this causes anyone confusion, I was just trying to post in real time updates, in case anyone wanted to see the process.  But now I have a post where I'm diluting soap and then in the same post, it's done.  Wasn't supposed to look like that. Sorry people.


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## Relle (Sep 28, 2018)

I merged ( not mashed)only 2 posts, no.15,16 in this thread, not a bunch, they were on the same day, posted one after the other. I read what was there and the 2nd post that was merged with the top one had a seperate line to say the soap was done.

I did that to tidy up the multiple posts, you diluted the soap and then a seperate sentence which got merged said it was done.
Post 15 got merged with I decided to zap test, easiest soap ever made ......
It didn't alter the reading of it.


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## amd (Sep 28, 2018)

DawninWA said:


> Ok, a bunch of my posts in this thread got mashed together by a mod, so now I look like an idiot who doesn't know how to post on forums.  Awesome.
> 
> Sorry if this causes anyone confusion, I was just trying to post in real time updates, in case anyone wanted to see the process.  But now I have a post where I'm diluting soap and then in the same post, it's done.  Wasn't supposed to look like that. Sorry people.



It reads fine. If you hadn't said anything, I wouldn't have known and just assumed that you came back and edited your post with updates without noting that it was an ETA.


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## BlueIris (Sep 29, 2018)

Lankan said:


> When you did this, did you encounter issues like EO not properly mixing with the soap and starting floating?


I experienced a KOH problem when adding color and FO. Long story, it was a mistake and I really didn’t know what I was doing, but yes. The color stuck to the hard butters, FO did seem to mix fine and then it separated and I had no luck getting it back together. I added the FO and color during the initial oil mix phase, not later.


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## Lankan (Sep 30, 2018)

BlueIris said:


> I experienced a KOH problem when adding color and FO. Long story, it was a mistake and I really didn’t know what I was doing, but yes. The color stuck to the hard butters, FO did seem to mix fine and then it separated and I had no luck getting it back together. I added the FO and color during the initial oil mix phase, not later.



why do you consider it as a KOH problem. I was told since we dilute the paste in water, the colorant should be water soluble, not oil soluble. However in my first batch I also mixed the water soluble pigment with in the initial mix and didn't know what exactly is the trace in CPLS and ended up stopping stick blending halfway thru.. I left the mix for about a month and had separation. I don't have much experience with FO. But wonder what would happen if that also not water soluble.


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## BlueIris (Oct 1, 2018)

Lankan said:


> why do you consider it as a KOH problem.



 I considered it a problem because I inadvertently used KOH and of course, had a unexpected result. The pigment I used was an oxide powder and not water soluble.  The FO was fine, but overall it separated and after about a month I disposed of it.


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## DeeAnna (Oct 1, 2018)

I can't see how oxide colors can stick to the butters. By the time the soap is fully saponified, the fats in the batch have been broken into fatty acids and then those fatty acids turned into soap. And the butters, even if they totally survived the saponification process, would still be melted and distributed throughout the soap as individual molecules. Individual fat molecules can't bond with large object like an oxide pigment particle.

What can happen is just simple physics; there's no fat-oxide hanky panky going on.  Pigments, including oxides, or mica colorants or ground spices (cinnamon for example) or any similar solid material are insoluble in any liquid. They remain as large and heavy chunks that naturally want to settle out of any sufficiently liquid mixture. This settling would happen whether your liquid soap was made from NaOH or KOH.


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