# FRUSTRATED   about the "correct way" to weigh



## Desirae (Sep 18, 2016)

I did a general search and didn't come across any threads that talk about this so maybe I'm the 1 st person to all this on here. So here it goes. ...

What is the PROPER way to weigh out in ounces? I've read some recipes listed in grams some ounces, however there seems to be a controversy  about when weighing everything  whether it be olive oil, coconut oil or shea butter should all be weighed when using ounces to ALWAYS use the weight of lbs and ounces  where other sites say to weigh everything as fl oz, then other sites say to weigh liquid oils as fl oz while the solids coconut oil/shea butter as lb oz. 

So can someone please set my extreme  confusion to rest so I can make sure I'm weighing out everything  CORRECTLY BC im seriously confused about what way to weigh,  85% of the sites I read say to weigh everything even liquid  oils as lbs to oz. Thank you ladies


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## Kamahido (Sep 18, 2016)

I weigh everything in grams myself. The reason everything should be weighed (not by fluid ounces) is so your amounts are EXACTLY correct. Any site that measures their oils by fluid ounces is not one I would suggest using. Imagine having lye-heavy (soap with more lye than can be combined with your oils) soap on your... unmentionables. OW! As long as you run every recipe you make (especially ones off of a fore mentioned websites) through a soap calculator before you do anything else you will be fine.


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## Desirae (Sep 18, 2016)

Kamahido said:


> I weigh everything in grams myself. The reason everything should be weighed (not by fluid ounces) is so your amounts are EXACTLY correct. Any site that measures their oils by fluid ounces is not one I would suggest using. Imagine having lye-heavy (soap with more lye than can be combined with your oils) soap on your... unmentionables. OW! As long as you run every recipe you make (especially ones off of a fore mentioned websites) through a soap calculator before you do anything else you will be fine.



Thank you for answering my thread quick.  I know that grams is best but to be honest bc of the scale I have,  I have to use oz by weight not fluid oz bc too often when I have ran a recipe  through the lye calc using grams at least half the time I get a crazy number like (just example  ) 6.2 well unfortunately   my scale does not have that capability  to do 6.2 grams but can do 6.2 oz (again just a number example  ) my scale in grams only gives me rounded numbers so instead of it being 6.2 it will weigh 6 grams and I know with lye is extremely  important  to weigh it exactly  right so it if the lye calc tells me 6.2 I have to recalculate  it using oz, see where I'm going with this?  Or am I wrong about the grams and take the 6.2 and just round it to 6? Just wanting to b be extra sure,  I have when lye calc  doesn't give me a rounded number bc then I have to redo it under ounces


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## Kamahido (Sep 18, 2016)

As far as grams go, feel free to round. My scale only measures in whole grams as well. A fraction of a gram of lye one way or the other will not be noticeable. Kudos for trying your best to be precise.


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## kchaystack (Sep 18, 2016)

Metric measures are the way to go.  And while lye weight is important,  if you round down to the nearest whole gram (so if it calls for 7.8 grams just use 7) you are fine.   

UNLESS  you are doing really small batches.   But really the smallest batch you should be attempting,  whether you use grams or ounces is 1 pound or 460 grams. 

Also,  fluid ounces are a volume measure.   So you don't weight that on a scale,  you use a measuring cup.   Which should never be done with soap.   Always use weight


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## Desirae (Sep 18, 2016)

Kamahido said:


> As far as grams go, feel free to round. My scale only measures in whole grams as well. A fraction of a gram of lye one way or the other will not be noticeable. Kudos for trying your best to be precise.



Thank you.  Just one thing that's off  topic  but hate to start a new thread over it,  what's the lowest temp allowable  when it comes to lye?  I wanted to get my temp to drop low bc I used a combo of milk and water, so I froze my milk night before,  I set  the milk and water in my pitcher that I use sitting in an ice bath with lots of ice to make sure is cold enough (I had thought can't be too catious) so  I added the lye little by little as I've read about milk scorching  and didn't want that to happen to me,  so after the lye solution is done,  my oils where already melted and cooling,  when I checked the temp of my lye solution  literally  10 min later  and the ice certainly  did the job of being an ice bath,  my temperature  was reading 48 degrees, my lye solution  only sat in the ice bath maybe 20 min at the most so I'm assuming  the combo of the ice bath and the frozen milk it kept the lye solution  very low.   Is it on for the lye solution  to be that low?  I've read that oils and lye must be within 10 degrees  of each other,  but haven't found any reading  on what to do with lye when is cold,  need less to say I ended up dumping it bc I had no clue if it was still ok to add the lye to my oils.  Your thoughts?  Any advice on how to avoid  the lye  solution  dropping that low in temp using Ice bath and frozen solid milk?  Could I have still used my lye solution  even being that low of a temp?  Thanks for all advice


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## Desirae (Sep 18, 2016)

kchaystack said:


> Metric measures are the way to go.  And while lye weight is important,  if you round down to the nearest whole gram (so if it calls for 7.8 grams just use 7) you are fine.
> 
> UNLESS  you are doing really small batches.   But really the smallest batch you should be attempting,  whether you use grams or ounces is 1 pound or 460 grams.
> 
> Also,  fluid ounces are a volume measure.   So you don't weight that on a scale,  you use a measuring cup.   Which should never be done with soap.   Always use weight



Thank you for clarifying  for me,  I've been using weight on my scale bc I really wasnt sure what to do with grams and a number that's not rounded


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## kchaystack (Sep 18, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Thank you for clarifying  for me,  I've been using weight on my scale bc I really wasnt sure what to do with grams and a number that's not rounded



Most people round up for oil, and down with lye.

So if it asks for 75.4 grams of olive oil. Use 76.  

Happy to help.  Enjoy your soaping!


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## Susie (Sep 18, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Thank you.  Just one thing that's off  topic  but hate to start a new thread over it,  what's the lowest temp allowable  when it comes to lye? * I wanted to get my temp to drop low bc I used a combo of milk and water, so I froze my milk night before,  I set  the milk and water in my pitcher that I use sitting in an ice bath with lots of ice to make sure is cold enough (I had thought can't be too catious) so  I added the lye little by little as I've read about milk scorching  and didn't want that to happen to me,  so after the lye solution is done,  my oils where already melted and cooling,  when I checked the temp of my lye solution  literally  10 min later  and the ice certainly  did the job of being an ice bath,  my temperature  was reading 48 degrees, my lye solution  only sat in the ice bath maybe 20 min at the most so I'm assuming  the combo of the ice bath and the frozen milk it kept the lye solution  very low. *  Is it on for the lye solution  to be that low?  I've read that oils and lye must be within 10 degrees  of each other,  but haven't found any reading  on what to do with lye when is cold,  need less to say I ended up dumping it bc I had no clue if it was still ok to add the lye to my oils.  Your thoughts?  Any advice on how to avoid  the lye  solution  dropping that low in temp using Ice bath and frozen solid milk?  Could I have still used my lye solution  even being that low of a temp?  Thanks for all advice



Please don't take this any way other than a suggestion to help you get more help faster.  You need to avoid run on sentences that become unintelligible for some of us.  That is simply too much information for some folks to try to wade through without some intermediate punctuation.

You needed to EITHER use frozen milk, OR an ice bath.  You really do not need both.  Also, no need to have frozen solid milk.  Some slush is OK.  Just not much, and add the NaOH slowly.  And you do not need the temperatures to be within 10 degrees of one another.  I don't even use a thermometer any more.  No one on here is even sure how that rumor got started.


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## newbie (Sep 18, 2016)

You just have to be certain that all the lye is fully dissolved. Lye water can be room temperature or cool or warm and it doesn't HAVE to be within 10 degrees of the oils. Most people gauge the temp of the lye water by touching the container with their hand and getting a feel for it. The issue they may come up using cold lye water is if your recipe has a lot of solid oils in it. Putting cold lye water in could possibly result if false trace, where the oils thicken because they are cooling down to temp that they become solid again. You can think because it's thick that you have achieved trace, but you won't have and your batch can later separate. 

I usually use room temp lye water and room temp or just slightly warmer oils.


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## Arimara (Sep 18, 2016)

If I use 100% milk, I do use a thermometer. I have an infrared thermometer to as I mix ly with frozed milk, I can check the tempt as the milk is melting. I judge my lye to be ready when the temp starts to drop. I tend to keep my oils just melted so I don't have to worry too much about the milk lye being cooked further.

When doing the 50/50 method with milk, it's easier to make a 50% lye solution with water, add that to the oils, bring the batter to light trace and then add the milk. I definitely worry less about temps then.


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## cmzaha (Sep 19, 2016)

Susie said:


> You needed to EITHER use frozen milk, OR an ice bath.  You really do not need both.  Also, no need to have frozen solid milk.  Some slush is OK.  Just not much, and add the NaOH slowly.  And you do not need the temperatures to be within 10 degrees of one another.  I don't even use a thermometer any more.  No one on here is even sure how that rumor got started.


I on the other hand if mixing my lye with milks do use frozen and set it in an ice bath for goat's milk only, not other milks, but do not leave it in after all my lye is mixed in and cooled down some. I also do not take temps. I melt all my solid oils then add in my liquid oils to help cool down my oils.

As for weighing, I use grams and ounces depending on what I am weighing. Oh horrors I know but that is how I do it and it works for me. As mentioned before always go by weight not volume when making soap. My other suggestion is to make simple soap with simple ingredients and leave out the milk until you get used to making soap. I personally prefer soap made with water and or aloe juice because they do not kill lather, which is all I notice goats milk accomplishing. Some of us feel aloe adds to lather. I use goat's milk for label appeal because people think it is great.


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## DeeAnna (Sep 19, 2016)

I agree with the others -- weight measurements only!

If you want to convert a recipe from volume measurements to weight measurements, remember that a cup of oil is lighter than a cup of water. That means you just can't replace "fluid ounces" with "weight ounces" and call it good. The old saying "a pint's a pound the world around" only applies to water.

If your scale can weigh to an accuracy of 1/10 of an ounce, it isn't as accurate as you might want for soaping. You may want to upgrade some day, especially if you make smaller batches of soap. If you are weight is off by 1/10 ounce, that means you're off by about 3 grams. In a small recipe, that level of error could really affect the quality of your soap. 

Many people use the MyWeigh KD7000 or KD8000 and similar scales. These scales are accurate to whole grams (or 1/100ths of an ounce), and that level of accuracy is fine for most soaping projects. More: http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/candle-and-soap-making-scales.html


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## Desirae (Sep 19, 2016)

Susie said:


> Please don't take this any way other than a suggestion to help you get more help faster.  You need to avoid run on sentences that become unintelligible for some of us.  That is simply too much information for some folks to try to wade through without some intermediate punctuation.
> 
> You needed to EITHER use frozen milk, OR an ice bath.  You really do not need both.  Also, no need to have frozen solid milk.  Some slush is OK.  Just not much, and add the NaOH slowly.  And you do not need the temperatures to be within 10 degrees of one another.  I don't even use a thermometer any more.  No one on here is even sure how that rumor got started.



Thank you, sorry about that my fingers where typing faster then my brain, or the other way around. I think my biggest question was, what is the lowest in temperature allowable for a lye solution whether it be water or milk? Is 48 degrees too low or should it stay with in the 90-110 degrees range as I've read in some areas?
So it's ok if lye solution is say 110 and oils are 90, you can still add the lye?


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## Desirae (Sep 19, 2016)

DeeAnna said:


> I agree with the others -- weight measurements only!
> 
> If you want to convert a recipe from volume measurements to weight measurements, remember that a cup of oil is lighter than a cup of water. That means you just can't replace "fluid ounces" with "weight ounces" and call it good. The old saying "a pint's a pound the world around" only applies to water.
> 
> ...



Holy cow, I can't believe the prices of those scales, I'm definitely buying one today,  and it's costs right around the same price the scale I'm currently using, I'll order this for sure. Thank you bunches for that link.


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## Desirae (Sep 19, 2016)

Thank you everyone for your help its much appreciated, I just wanted to make sure I was doing it right by using weight and not fluid oz. I'm not good at figuring out how to take a recipe that says fluid oz and changing it to weight so I think it best for me to avoid those kinds of recipes, it'll save me the frustration of the math part of it, lol


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## earlene (Sep 19, 2016)

If you use a lye calculator, and hopefully you do, your calculations need to based on weight using a scale (pounds, ounces, grams, etc.)  

All of the lye calculators I've used base the lye amount on the saponification values of the various oils, and that is determined by weight of the oils.  

Weight and volume are two different things.  Measuring by volume (displacement inside a container) is what you are doing when you measure fluid ounces.  But the volume of one oil is not always the same weight of another oil.  (See this site to look up the difference in weight vs. volume of various soaping oils.) So it is completely unreliable when trying to determine the saponification value of different oils. 

For more information about how sap values are determined see here and here.  Both demonstrate that weight is essential to the process of sap value determination.



Desirae said:


> I think my biggest question was, what is the  lowest in temperature allowable for a lye solution whether it be water  or milk? Is 48 degrees too low or should it stay with in the 90-110  degrees range as I've read in some areas?
> So it's ok if lye solution is say 110 and oils are 90, you can still add the lye?



I  can't answer specifically what is too low a temp for the lye solution,  but I can tell you that if you have solid chunks of anything in your lye  solution, it is not safe to add to your oils.  So if you add your lye  to the frozen milk make sure it is fully dissolved and has no solid  chunks.  Stir it well do make sure it remains fluid before adding to  your oils.  Straining it through a sieve is another thing you can do if  you want to avoid small solid particles, but make sure it is fully dissolved first.


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## Arimara (Sep 19, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Thank you, sorry about that my fingers where typing faster then my brain, or the other way around. I think my biggest question was, what is the lowest in temperature allowable for a lye solution whether it be water or milk? Is 48 degrees too low or should it stay with in the 90-110 degrees range as I've read in some areas?
> So it's ok if lye solution is say 110 and oils are 90, you can still add the lye?



Some people use room temperature lye. I don't like to unless I really want and need to soap that cool.


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## Susie (Sep 19, 2016)

Temperatures are only super important when dealing with milks, or swirling.  That's it.  And you sort of have to learn for yourself on the swirls.  The milks only need to keep from overheating.  If you end up with something roughly room temperature before mixing with the oils, then you should be good.  No need to keep it in the 48 degree range.


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## kchaystack (Sep 19, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Thank you everyone for your help its much appreciated, I just wanted to make sure I was doing it right by using weight and not fluid oz. I'm not good at figuring out how to take a recipe that says fluid oz and changing it to weight so I think it best for me to avoid those kinds of recipes, it'll save me the frustration of the math part of it, lol



Once you are more confident about what is going on, you can convert the volume measures to %, and then your lye calculator will do the hard work.  

To convert, you simply have to divide the single oil volume by the total volume of oils.  if you have a recipe you want to try, just post it here and ask for some help with the calculation.  Members can also comment on the recipe and let you know if they think about how suitable it is for soap.  

Some of the stuff we have seen out there is just crazy.


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## penelopejane (Sep 19, 2016)

If you find a recipe you are not sure of post it here and people can help. Even some of the reputable websites have some recipes that I think are suspect.


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## Desirae (Sep 19, 2016)

penelopejane said:


> If you find a recipe you are not sure of post it here and people can help. Even some of the reputable websites have some recipes that I think are suspect.



Thank you,  I will keep that in mind the next time I come across one


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## Susie (Sep 19, 2016)

Until you get a good handle on what works for you, posting a proposed recipe here will get you feedback that will save you lots of oils.  All we need is something like this:

Oil 1 %
Oil 2 %
Oil 3 %
Oil 4 %
Superfat %
Any milks or other additives that affect the bar.

We do not need to know what scents or colors.  Unless you just want to.  But pics after cutting help feed our addictions. *ahem* I mean help us troubleshoot any problems.


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## Desirae (Sep 19, 2016)

Susie said:


> Until you get a good handle on what works for you, posting a proposed recipe here will get you feedback that will save you lots of oils.  All we need is something like this:
> 
> Oil 1 %
> Oil 2 %
> ...



Sorry by chance can you tell me how to reduce the poundage on this recipe it's from soap queen and I'd really love to try it I've got the ingredients on the way to me now but it's for a 5#loaf and I only have 2.5# and a 3# so how do I go about making this a 3#?

https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-...presso-shot-cold-process-tutorial/#more-38230


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## biarine (Sep 19, 2016)

I weighed mine in grams. But I just  wanted to know if anyone melt their coconut oil and palm oil before weighing? Because  tested it, I weighed my coconut oil unmelted then weighed again after it melted  and the result was it's short of 6 grams. I know I weighed it right before I melted.


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## makemineirish (Sep 19, 2016)

Desirae said:


> Sorry by chance can you tell me how to reduce the poundage on this recipe it's from soap queen and I'd really love to try it I've got the ingredients on the way to me now but it's for a 5#loaf and I only have 2.5# and a 3# so how do I go about making this a 3#?
> 
> https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-...presso-shot-cold-process-tutorial/#more-38230



I can expand on this or include images to be more clear later.  However, I can only do the quick and dirty version while using my phone at present.  The Soap Queen recipe that you linked to uses six oils and butters.  Adding the six weights together gives you a total weight of 54.8oz.  

Take each individual weight and divide it by that total to yield a percent.  For example, 5.5oz cocoa butter / 54.8oz total oils gives you a value of 10%. Repeating the process with the remaining five fats yields a recipe that looks like this:

10% cocoa butter
25% coconut oil
5% coffee butter
5% hazelnut oil
30% olive oil
25% palm oil

The percentages of oils/butters should equal 100% when added together or there is a mistake in either the original recipe or your math.  

You can then enter this recipe into a lye calculator along with your total batch weight. The calculator will scale the recipe appropriately and generate the amount of lye and water required dependent on your specified percentage of superfat and water/lye concentration.

You can easily select for the measurement of your choice (I prefer grams) and change the total weight to reflect whichever mold you choose to utilize.


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## Susie (Sep 19, 2016)

I am having trouble finding "coffee butter" on any of the soap calculators.  

This is a very complicated recipe for a newbie.  Just saying.


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## Desirae (Sep 19, 2016)

makemineirish said:


> I can expand on this or include images to be more clear later.  However, I can only do the quick and dirty version while using my phone at present.  The Soap Queen recipe that you linked to uses six oils and butters.  Adding the six weights together gives you a total weight of 54.8oz.
> 
> Take each individual weight and divide it by that total to yield a percent.  For example, 5.5oz cocoa butter / 54.8oz total oils gives you a value of 10%. Repeating the process with the remaining five fats yields a recipe that looks like this:
> 
> ...



I think I understand but let me  say it back to make sure I have it right. Unfortunately I'm a visual learner in most cases so I hope I got this right, plz correct me if I mess up somewhere along the way.
Add up all the oils & butters which will equal 54.8 then divide the 1st butter 5.5 by the 54.8 to get the 10%, I do this to each one to come up with 100%, take those butters & oils percentage and put in my lye calc each one listing the %, since I want to use a 3# loaf which totals 48oz I put that in the calc for my total loaf weight, once I click preview to see all the numbers that when it'll show me the total grams/oz I need for each butter/oil/water/lye/etc?  Do I have this right?


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## CaraBou (Sep 19, 2016)

Sounds right to me Desirae, give it a whirl.  

Biarine, oil shouldn't weigh less after it's melted.  Check and double check that one - there shouldn't be a difference.



biarine said:


> I just  wanted to know if anyone melt their coconut oil and palm oil before weighing? Because  tested it, I weighed my coconut oil unmelted then weighed again after it melted  and the result was it's short of 6 grams. I know I weighed it right before I melted.


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## Arimara (Sep 19, 2016)

Susie said:


> I am having trouble finding "coffee butter" on any of the soap calculators.
> 
> This is a very complicated recipe for a newbie.  Just saying.



I think it's a blend. You'd have to really check what the coffee butter is made of.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Sep 20, 2016)

Another option to scale a recipe is to put it in to a calc as is, calculate it, switch to % mode and adjust the total target weight from the original to your required size - the calcs take the weight amounts and work out the % anyway so let it do the hard work, I say.


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## kchaystack (Sep 20, 2016)

Coffee butter is one of those 'fake' butters that are so popular in bath and body these days.

WSP lists the INCI as:  Coffea Arabica Seed Oil (and) Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil

So it is a touch of coffee EO and alot of what basically amounts to Crisco.  

I would not use it in soap.


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## cmzaha (Sep 20, 2016)

Susie said:


> I am having trouble finding "coffee butter" on any of the soap calculators.
> 
> This is a very complicated recipe for a newbie.  Just saying.


You can use the shortening choice in soap calc  Bramble Berry wants to sell you their coffee butter which is a little coffee oil and hydrogenated vegetable oil (basically shortening)



biarine said:


> I weighed mine in grams. But I just  wanted to know if anyone melt their coconut oil and palm oil before weighing? Because  tested it, I weighed my coconut oil unmelted then weighed again after it melted  and the result was it's short of 6 grams. I know I weighed it right before I melted.


If you melted in one container and poured it into another you would lose oil. Solid and liquid should weigh the same. 6 grams unless making a super tiny batch is not going to matter much


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## biarine (Sep 20, 2016)

cmzaha said:


> You can use the shortening choice in soap calc  Bramble Berry wants to sell you their coffee butter which is a little coffee oil and hydrogenated vegetable oil (basically shortening)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks, Yeah I don't make big batches, I make only for our household.


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## Susie (Sep 20, 2016)

And you can use a recipe resizer:

http://www.summerbeemeadow.com/content/lye-calculator-and-recipe-resizer


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