# conditioning bars hot process



## JCsuds (Mar 18, 2015)

I infused 2 oz chamomile blossoms in the oils except the shea butter (I will be adding that in the end ) I am planning on using flat beer for the liquid /lye solution 
I basically made up this recipe according to what I had to work with,  and what understanding I have gained from this forum and the books I  have about the properties of the oils . I understand this will not be very cleansing more a  conditioning  bar . My 2 girls and wife have dry tangle hair.   If anyone sees any obvious flaws  with the recipe  please feel free to tell me before I make this batch  (hot process ) today 
 also how much fragrance would 766.74 g of soap need? planning on rosemary and mint EO  is there some standard measure of OE and fragrance oils ? Thanks James 
Yiriahs conditioner bars
A SOLID soap, measured in GRAMS
superfatted by 10%
1tsp sugar to boost lather 
Avocado Oil 440.00g 
Castor Oil 120.00g 
Olive Oil 600.00g 
Shea Butter (Unrefined) 120.00g 
Sunflower Seed Oil 300.00g 
10% Lye (Sodium Hydroxide) Amount 
189.612g Ounces of liquid recommended 521.40g 
Yields 766.74g


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## Obsidian (Mar 18, 2015)

I'm confused about your recipe, when I put it into soap cal, the total oils come up to 1,580 grams, not the 766.74 grams you wrote above.
I'm also confused about the 10% lye amount. When writing out a recipe, please include the lye and water in grams, not percentages.

It should look like this

Avocado 440 gram
castor 120 gram
olive 600 gram
shea 120 gram
sunflower 300 gram

Water 600 grams
lye 189.70 grams

This is a shampoo bar right? If so, you want the superfat to be around 3% or it will leave the hair sticky. For a batch this size, you would use 48.98 grams scent

Personally, I would make a smaller batch when making a new recipe.


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## JCsuds (Mar 18, 2015)

Amount             % 
                                 Avocado Oil         440.00g 27.85%                            
Castor Oil         120.00g         7.59% 
                           Olive Oil         600.00g         37.97% 
                           Shea Butter (Unrefined)         120.00g         7.59% 
                           Sunflower Seed Oil         300.00g         18.99% 
                                              6% Lye (Sodium Hydroxide) Amount         198.039g         
                  Grams of liquid recommended         521.40g         
                  Yields         2299.44g
this is run through brambleberry calculatorat 6%. This was recipe based on the link you sent me about Gennys shampoo bar she did it at 6%  I was superfatting it high because cavitch does everything at 10%.... Thanks for your input I am not sure why the yeild is different again??? but this should fit in two pans . I live with 40 people this will all be gone in a couple of weeks or so .


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## Obsidian (Mar 18, 2015)

That looks much better. I normally SF my soaps at 10% but like I said, with shampoo bars you don't want a bunch of excess oils in your hair. I also have very dry, damaged hair and even 6% SF make my hair gunky. I do have very fine hair though, if your wife has courser hair the 6% will probably be just fine.


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## shunt2011 (Mar 18, 2015)

Also be prepared that they may not be able to use shampoo bars.  I've tried several and my hair hates them. They make my hair feel terrible and my haircolor fade way too fast. Even with an ACV rinse. Some people love them some just can't use them.  They make great conditioning body bars though.


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## Susie (Mar 18, 2015)

I use lard in my shampoo bars, also.  So, if you wanted to use tallow, shampoo bars would not be hurt by it.  I would not use any colorants in the shampoo bars, though.  People with grey or blonde hair might end up with an undesired color change.  It happened to me.

Just out of curiosity, why HP?  It will not save you cure time.  And you will need to use less EO for HP than CP.  This seems an unnecessary complication for a new soaper.

You do remember that you need that soap to cure for 4-6 weeks minimum, right?


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## JCsuds (Mar 18, 2015)

Susie said:


> I use lard in my shampoo bars, also.  So, if you wanted to use tallow, shampoo bars would not be hurt by it.  I would not use any colorants in the shampoo bars, though.  People with grey or blonde hair might end up with an undesired color change.  It happened to me.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, why HP?  It will not save you cure time.  And you will need to use less EO for HP than CP.  This seems an unnecessary complication for a new soaper.
> 
> You do remember that you need that soap to cure for 4-6 weeks minimum, right?




Now I am really confused :shock: I am under the thought pattern  you can use hot process products days after you make them. that the ph is neutralized  by the end of the cooking process  .  I know they improve and last longer after dehydration /curing but we should be able to use it tomorrow . I would like to try it before making the next batch and not wait a month and a half . I will be testing this with phenolphthalein 1% to ensure it is ready and safe . Would it be ok to color the soap with spiralina ? anyone have experience with using it in shampoo?  Also I do not really have anything very cleansing in this bar it is more a conditioning bar for all the straw heads ... 
    I need tallow cleansing shampoo bar for my greasy head of falling out hair .... I got short fat bald disease when I turned 30...18 yrs ago  Thanks for the input James


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## Susie (Mar 18, 2015)

The whole "HP is safe to use after gel" is one we get all the time.  It may be safe, but it will *not* be good.  You still need time for that bar to lose water and time makes them milder and more conditioning.  You can no more judge the quality of that shampoo bar after a couple of days than you could judge vegetables in a garden the day the seeds sprout.

I would not use any colorants in shampoo bars, as color can and will change the hair color.  Not all, mind you, but do you want to take the chance?

Why are you using phenolpthalien?  You can zap test it to know if it is safe.  Zap test is the only true safe/not safe determination for soap.


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## Seawolfe (Mar 18, 2015)

Beer is "safe" to drink after fermentation, but it tastes nasty. Same idea with soap - there's a HUGE difference between "safe" and "good". A decent cure gets you to "good"


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## Susie (Mar 18, 2015)

Since I was asked to post this here from a PM exchange with the OP, I will:

OP:  I hope I did not blow it  I forgot to add my shea butter until about 10 min after trace (it traced right away ) I went down stairs and came back up and realized it and mixed it in to the soap looks like mashed potatoes consistancy hopefully it isnt ruined it is hot processed soap/shampoo if it does not work what will happen??

Me:  OK, here is the basic difference in making HP to making CP- in HP, you can choose which oil(s) to not saponify with the lye.  In other words, you choose what fat sticks around to condition your skin(or hair), and which ones become the soap.  In this case, you could have chosen shea to be your "superfat" and left it until after gel IF it was only 5-10% of the total.

Since you did not designate shea as the superfat, then it is fine to add after trace, as trace is the beginning of saponification, rather than the end of it.  When the soap has gelled and been molded and solidified, saponification is usually over in HP.  In CP, this is not necessarily so, though, so don't mix them up.  HP still requires the same cure time as CP.


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## JCsuds (Mar 18, 2015)

*Wow*

wow I really did not understand this at all I have been watching you tube videos an both processes and it seemed that you could use it right away . ( I watched someone wash there hands with some from the spoon after they made it ) Thats why I did the hot process .  is it the same for soap and shampoo?


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## JCsuds (Mar 18, 2015)

Since you did not designate shea as the superfat, then it is fine to add after trace, as trace is the beginning of saponification, rather than the end of it.  When the soap has gelled and been molded and solidified, saponification is usually over in HP.  In CP, this is not necessarily so, though, so don't mix them up.  HP still requires the same cure time as CP.[/QUOTE]


Can I add a couple of ounces of vit. e with my eo's to superfat ? also  you said I should use less eo when doing hot process in our pm you said 1.76 oz  would it be different ? Thanks so much for the help James


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## Susie (Mar 18, 2015)

I know who it is.  And you need not feel alone.  Lots of folks come here with that impression.  

Since the "shampoo" you are making is soap, yes, same rules apply for both.  

This is exactly why I asked why you are doing HP.  I kind of thought you were under that misconception.  CP is so much easier to me, especially for a new soaper, that it just made no sense that you wanted to do HP for a second batch.  

Lots of folks here love their HP, though(not me), and are a wealth of information on how to do it best.  If you want to continue to do HP, I would make a new thread with HP in the subject line so they will know to look at it.

I don't know what you want the Vit E to do.  So my answer would depend on that. 

EOs can be used at a much lower rate for HP, after the gel.  There is no hard and fast rule that I am aware of, but I would start at about half the normal rate and go from there.  And that would be 1.76 oz total EOs for your batch size, so half of that would be 0.88 oz.  See what you think about that much before adjusting from there.


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## JCsuds (Mar 18, 2015)

this thread says hot process conditioning bars did I post it in the wrong place ? I am happy with the cold process I made yesterday I like that you can make nicer designs etc. 

Lots of folks here love their HP, though(not me), and are a wealth of information on how to do it best.  If you want to continue to do HP, I would make a new thread with HP in the subject line so they will know to look at it.[/QUOTE]


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## Susie (Mar 18, 2015)

The recipes for HP and CP are alike enough that we don't have a separate HP forum.  So, yes, this is the correct forum.  It is just that HP loving folks will be drawn to the HP in the subject line.  This discussion is fine where it is, but if you want to continue making HP, do stick that in the title somewhere.  The words, "HP Help, Please" should draw them out of the woodwork.

I admit, though, I almost skipped reading anything in here, because I don't make HP, and conditioning bars can mean too many things.  Only the fact that I saw it was a really new soaper drew my attention.  I do make and use shampoo bars, so I thought I might be able to help a little.

A good rule of thumb on checking to see if someone that posts a video on YouTube knows what they are doing is to check all "facts" from them on this forum until you develop a better "fertilizer" filter where soaping is concerned.


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## Seawolfe (Mar 18, 2015)

Dont just take our word for it re HP cure - you now have a batch of HP and CP. Try them both weekly to 6-8 weeks taking notes all the while -  see the difference for yourself


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## JCsuds (Mar 18, 2015)

the vit. e to be superfat oil


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## Susie (Mar 18, 2015)

If you used the recipe above with 6% superfat, you already have superfat.  Vitamin E is not a true "oil" you can superfat with.  It is an oil soluble vitamin.  Not at all the same thing.  It is used as an antioxidant in oils to prevent rancidity. 

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=5414

I have a bad feeling that you have a bunch of Vit. E sitting around that I have told you is unnecessary and not to use it.  If this is the case, I do apologize for that.  However, before going out and investing any more money in ingredients, you would be wise to post your whole recipes to us, including additives, before ordering.  Give us at least 3 days to respond to it.  We can save you a lot of money that way.


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## Obsidian (Mar 18, 2015)

I wold never add vit E to a shampoo bar, its a sticky oil that will coat the hair in not a good way.


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## JCsuds (Mar 18, 2015)

*yeah*

I did not put any vit E in my batch and it  is done . this is similar to this recipe only I did not want to use soybean as it is all GMO 
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=30946& 
obsidian set me this link a while back and this is where the foundation for my recipe came from I hope it is as successful as hers was   I used beer for the water 
Seawolf I will take your word for it. If ready  in 4-6 weeks  how will I  know it is ready ?


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## Susie (Mar 18, 2015)

I am not Seawolfe, but I will endeavor to explain.  He means to take one bar of the HP and try it once a week, say on Wednesday or Thursday, and take notes on what you think of the lather and conditioning.  When you get to the 6 week mark, try it and then look back on what you thought about it at the start.  You will then understand why we say it is so very much better if you let it cure.  It is something you have to experience to understand.


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## Seawolfe (Mar 18, 2015)

^^^ what Susie said. Plus, if I'm not mistaken you have a fresh CP batch that you can run the same experiment on, for comparisons sake. 

Pssst Susie, I'm a girl sistah!


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## JCsuds (Mar 18, 2015)

I washed my hands with the spoon and it really dried out my hands :shifty:. it is still soft .... My first batch was hard almost right away (cold process ) I think I am a cold process person .... If the HP soap was not totally right with the ph will it work out in the cure like cold process? another question is it essential to wash everything completely? all my soap stuff is set apart only soap equipment


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## JCsuds (Mar 18, 2015)

*tomorrows recipe*

tomorrow I was going to do this batch again CP.  I was going to use beer (I have some left from today) unless I shouldn’t ? will it make nice soap ?  It looks nice seems good and hard 
32g Black castor oil
454g coconut
78g olive oil 
58g red palm oil
52g safflower oil
28g unrefined shea butter 
1046g beef tallow 
6% Lye (Sodium Hydroxide) Amount 246.113g 
Ounces of liquid recommended 576.18g


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## Susie (Mar 18, 2015)

Seawolfe said:


> ^^^ what Susie said. Plus, if I'm not mistaken you have a fresh CP batch that you can run the same experiment on, for comparisons sake.
> 
> Pssst Susie, I'm a girl sistah!



So very sorry!  My brain is not working!


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## FlybyStardancer (Mar 18, 2015)

Wow, that's a lot of oils! Especially for a beginner.

Here's a workup of what you're suggesting, with percentages:
Castor: 32g, 1.83%
Coconut: 454g, 25.97%
Olive: 78g, 4.46%
Red Palm: 58g, 3.32%
Safflower: 52g, 2.97%
Shea butter: 28g, 1.6%
Tallow: 1046g, 59.84%

The lye calculator is giving me a 7.5% lye discount when you use 246g lye. Also, combined with the water it becomes a 29% solution, which is roughly "full water" and is a good level for a beginner.

I have a couple of questions for you... Why so many oils, and why at such low percentages?


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## Susie (Mar 18, 2015)

JCsuds said:


> tomorrow I was going to do this batch again CP.  I was going to use beer (I have some left from today) unless I shouldn’t ? will it make nice soap ?  It looks nice seems good and hard
> 32g Black castor oil
> 454g coconut
> 78g olive oil
> ...



You need to stop making soap for a bit.  Seriously.  You need to give those two soaps time to cure so that you know if you hate them or not.  Then you come tell us what you think and we can steer you on correcting what you don't like.  

If you absolutely must make more soap right now, I am going to strongly suggest a 3-4 oil base with no complications.  Something like this tried and true recipe so that you have a good soap to compare the others to. 

Tallow 55%
Olive Oil 20%
Coconut Oil 20%
Castor Oil 5%

I would NOT recommend that you attempt a beer soap at this stage.  It needs special steps to not cause issues, and you need to get a good base recipe down pat before you start with additives such as this.


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## Obsidian (Mar 18, 2015)

I didn't like the soybean either, I replaced it with coconut and neem. I've HP my shampoo a couple times, I start using it at 4 weeks. Tried it once at a week, it was ok but not great.


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## JCsuds (Mar 19, 2015)

FlybyStardancer said:


> Wow, that's a lot of oils! Especially for a beginner.
> 
> Here's a workup of what you're suggesting, with percentages:
> Castor: 32g, 1.83%
> ...



Making soap/ shampoo for 40 people  What is a good calculator to use ? seems the bramblberry one does weird stuff ???


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## JayJay (Mar 19, 2015)

Susie said:


> The whole "HP is safe to use after gel" is one we get all the time.  It may be safe, but it will *not* be good.  You still need time for that bar to lose water and time makes them milder and more conditioning.  You can no more judge the quality of that shampoo bar after a couple of days than you could judge vegetables in a garden the day the seeds sprout.
> 
> I would not use any colorants in shampoo bars, as color can and will change the hair color.  Not all, mind you, but do you want to take the chance?
> 
> Why are you using phenolpthalien?  You can zap test it to know if it is safe.  Zap test is the only true safe/not safe determination for soap.



I have heard this before about time making soap milder and more conditioning? How so? Through what mechanism?  Is it that the lye isn't completely gone at first and had to die out over time... Evaporates with the water?


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## JCsuds (Mar 19, 2015)

Susie said:


> You need to stop making soap for a bit.  Seriously.  You need to give those two soaps time to cure so that you know if you hate them or not.  Then you come tell us what you think and we can steer you on correcting what you don't like.
> 
> If you absolutely must make more soap right now, I am going to strongly suggest a 3-4 oil base with no complications.  Something like this tried and true recipe so that you have a good soap to compare the others to.
> 
> ...



Ok susie NO BEER ....The shampoo seemed to turn out great looks kind of rustic . I dont know how to make a recipe with percent’s and it seemed grams was the most accurate way to measure I want to use 1000 grams of tallow could you give me a recipe based on that ?  I have more coconut than O.O. so if it is safe to tweek the percentages 30/10 ? It fine if this is in ounces . I am making soap for 40 people one batch this big will give 1/2 of us one  bar  Thanks for your help


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## FlybyStardancer (Mar 19, 2015)

JCsuds said:


> Making soap/ shampoo for 40 people  What is a good calculator to use ? seems the bramblberry one does weird stuff ???





JCsuds said:


> Ok susie NO BEER ....The shampoo seemed to turn out great looks kind of rustic . I dont know how to make a recipe with percent’s and it seemed grams was the most accurate way to measure I want to use 1000 grams of tallow could you give me a recipe based on that ?  I have more coconut than O.O. so if it is safe to tweek the percentages 30/10 ? It fine if this is in ounces . I am making soap for 40 people one batch this big will give 1/2 of us one  bar  Thanks for your help



PLEASE SLOW DOWN. I know you're excited and in the New Hobby Honeymoon phase, but please take that energy and put it into really LEARNING about the craft! You should be able to answer my questions above about why you're using the oils you're using at the amounts you're using, if only so we can understand your thinking and correct any misconceptions you may have.

Also, please make smaller batches. You want to share with everyone and that's great, but don't you want to make sure that the soap works the way you want it to before you go sharing it? A year in and my "standard" batch size is based off of 600-700g oils.

Brambleberry is a decent calculator. Not my favorite as I can't customize things the way I want, but it won't give you a lye-heavy soap.

Spend time learning how to work with percentages. They are our biggest help in both analyzing recipes to make sure they will have the properties we want, as well as in resizing a recipe. A soap with 50% tallow is going to have half of its oils be tallow no matter if I'm making a 1lb batch or a 10lb batch. It also lets me know that half of my oils will be hard, long-lasting, and conditioning in the final bar. You can't know that if you're just measuring out grams and then figuring out what the percentages are later by running it through the lye calculator. Most calculators (including Brambleberry) have an option where you can enter in the percentages of each oil and then what size you want your total batch to be, and they will figure out how much of each oil to use.

Please tell me why you used so many oils. 7 is too many for a beginner (heck, I max out at 5 oils, and I try to stick to 4!). Not only that, but 5 of your 7 oils are less than 5% each of the total recipe. A good rule of thumb is that an oil needs to make up 5% of the total recipe for you to be able to notice its qualities in the final soap. That olive, safflower, palm, castor, and shea butter? You're not going to get anything out of them. You have coconut taking up 25% of your recipe, and that's too high for a shampoo bar (what you claim you want to make). It's on the high end for a general body bar, even. It will strip everything from hair and turn it to straw.

Please don't take this as discouragement. We really want to help you make the best soap possible. For that to happen, you really do need to stop, listen, and learn.


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## FlybyStardancer (Mar 19, 2015)

JayJay said:


> I have heard this before about time making soap milder and more conditioning? How so? Through what mechanism?  Is it that the lye isn't completely gone at first and had to die out over time... Evaporates with the water?



As far as cure time goes, part of it is evaporation. Another part of it  is subtle reactions and the salt crystals of the soap aligning  themselves into a crystalline matrix that improves the feel of the soap.  It won't take a harsh recipe and make it mild, but it will make it the  very best soap it can be.

Here's a nifty thing. Take two bars from a batch that have been curing for, say, four weeks and tap them together. They'll just thump against one another. Now take two bars from a batch that have been curing for 3 months or longer, and tap them together. They'll vibrate and resonate in your hands (it's subtle, but it's there!). That's caused by the crystalline matrix of the soap salts!


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## JayJay (Mar 19, 2015)

FlybyStardancer said:


> As far as cure time goes, part of it is evaporation. Another part of it  is subtle reactions and the salt crystals of the soap aligning  themselves into a crystalline matrix that improves the feel of the soap.  It won't take a harsh recipe and make it mild, but it will make it the  very best soap it can be.
> 
> Here's a nifty thing. Take two bars from a batch that have been curing for, say, four weeks and tap them together. They'll just thump against one another. Now take two bars from a batch that have been curing for 3 months or longer, and tap them together. They'll vibrate and resonate in your hands (it's subtle, but it's there!). That's caused by the crystalline matrix of the soap salts!



Wow. That is so cool. I love that soap making is so scientific, but artful at the same time.


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## Susie (Mar 19, 2015)

JayJay said:


> I have heard this before about time making soap milder and more conditioning? How so? Through what mechanism?  Is it that the lye isn't completely gone at first and had to die out over time... Evaporates with the water?



It is in post #13 of this thread:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=42922&page=2

That whole thread is loaded with good info.


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## Susie (Mar 19, 2015)

JCsuds said:


> Ok susie NO BEER ....The shampoo seemed to turn out great looks kind of rustic . I dont know how to make a recipe with percent’s and it seemed grams was the most accurate way to measure I want to use 1000 grams of tallow could you give me a recipe based on that ?  I have more coconut than O.O. so if it is safe to tweek the percentages 30/10 ? It fine if this is in ounces . I am making soap for 40 people one batch this big will give 1/2 of us one  bar  Thanks for your help



You would greatly benefit by using Soapcalc.net.  Here is a great tutorial:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49627

I can't do math to save my life.  This calculator allows you to resize any recipe with ease.  

You need that CO to be 20% or less.  If you are using the 4 oil recipe I provided, please stick to that recipe with 5% superfat.  Most of us know exactly how that recipe will turn out, and we can help you develop what you like by seeing how you like that one.  If you use another recipe, then we can't help as much.

PLEASE slow down and do some research.  You seem to be going in all directions at once.  You really do need to know what you are aiming for before you shoot in the dark.  Start with not making soap until you understand that you need to reduce your batch size to no more than 1000 g oils TOTAL.  Remember that each 4 oz bar will last one person a month.  So, you don't need 400 bars of soap right now.  You need to make 10-12 bars of GOOD soap before aiming for huge batches.  This will save you lots of money when you get a bad batch, and _it is coming_.  All of us have had bad batches if we soap long enough.


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## reinbeau (Mar 19, 2015)

In the OP's defense, some of us learn best in a rather chaotic fashion.  I know that's how I started.  It does calm down once you get your sea (soap) legs under you


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## JayJay (Mar 20, 2015)

Susie said:


> It is in post #13 of this thread:
> 
> http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=42922&page=2
> 
> That whole thread is loaded with good info.



You're are right, there is so much good and detailed information here.  I've been reading it for at least 30 minutes now.  And there are still tens of pages left. I'm only stopping because I have to get to bed and wake up early tomorrow. Thank you for sharing this! Fascinating!


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## JCsuds (Mar 20, 2015)

reinbeau said:


> In the OP's defense, some of us learn best in a rather chaotic fashion.  I know that's how I started.  It does calm down once you get your sea (soap) legs under you


  Thats great I am from the north shore of mass  you learn by jumping into traffic (mass drivers are world renown and notorious) I do well with pressure and a certain ammount of chaos .... However  I did head the warnings and slooowed down I will make the 4 oil batch as Susie had suggested next week 5 lb batch :clap:


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Mar 20, 2015)

5 lb is still a massive batch for so early on, unless you are totally happy with the recipe.  As it stands, your other soaps might not have even had time to cure properly so how do you know if you need to change anything?

Sure, you have lots of people to use it up, but is it not better to make smaller batches for feedback before making enough for everyone to have a full bar?


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## JCsuds (Mar 20, 2015)

Because of  my ignorance :mrgreen: 
     I could have easily put in 5% of the oils but I did not know . The recipe below was the soap I made not shampoo . the shampoo has almost 0 cleansing power it is more a conditioning bar this recipe below was for soap. I actually have been researching since dec. I became a member on this forum in Jan.  I did not make a batch for 4 months ... I am not saying I dont have a lot to learn ( thats why I am here ) but  learn best by experience .. I had small amounts of safflower 2 oz and about the same palm which were given to me  I did not realise the would not be of benefit. no I am not taking this as discouragement I appreciate everyone’s input ... I actually have a couple of nice batches of soap ... I printed of my next reipe (I named it Susies soap) using percentages as you suggested  for a 5 lb batch  ( we cook 6 cups of rice for lunch ) which I would consider a small batch. 1/2 the people I live with would get a bar 

[/QUOTE]Please tell me why you used so many oils. 7 is too many for a beginner (heck, I max out at 5 oils, and I try to stick to 4!). Not only that, but 5 of your 7 oils are less than 5% each of the total recipe. A good rule of thumb is that an oil needs to make up 5% of the total recipe for you to be able to notice its qualities in the final soap. That olive, safflower, palm, castor, and shea butter? You're not going to get anything out of them. You have coconut taking up 25% of your recipe, and that's too high for a shampoo bar (what you claim you want to make). It's on the high end for a general body bar, even. It will strip everything from hair and turn it to straw.

Please don't take this as discouragement. We really want to help you make the best soap possible. For that to happen, you really do need to stop, listen, and learn.[/QUOTE]


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## JCsuds (Mar 20, 2015)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> 5 lb is still a massive batch for so early on, unless you are totally happy with the recipe.  As it stands, your other soaps might not have even had time to cure properly so how do you know if you need to change anything?
> 
> Sure, you have lots of people to use it up, but is it not better to make smaller batches for feedback before making enough for everyone to have a full bar?




  I was going to do Susies tried and true recipe above Not the ones I already made I will wait as suggested until they have cured properly  With another 5 lb batch I will be able to give everone 2  half bars one of each kind and get feedback on both batches


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## JCsuds (Mar 25, 2015)

*susies soap*

So yesterday I made the above recipe ( I am calling it Susies soap ) although I am sure you did not make up the recipe . 5 lb batch . I mixed the lye and oil at 113 degrees F and it turned out great :clap:. It did not harden as hard or fast as my first batch 122 degrees F( I thought it was 120 degrees F but my ir thermometer is 2 degrees off when I tested it on ice water  . I would upload pictures but this computer is not reading my flash driver ... I will have to figure out something later . looks great and thank you all for your help/ checks and concerns  James


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## cerelife (Mar 25, 2015)

shunt2011 said:


> Also be prepared that they may not be able to use shampoo bars.  I've tried several and my hair hates them. They make my hair feel terrible and my haircolor fade way too fast. Even with an ACV rinse. Some people love them some just can't use them.  They make great conditioning body bars though.



I'm another one who can't use shampoo bars. I spend a small fortune at Aveda every 7 weeks for color and 'gloss' on my waist-length hair and every shampoo bar I've tried has stripped the gloss off completely and faded my color within 2 uses! I love the concept of a shampoo bar, but I guess they're just not for me.


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## JCsuds (Mar 31, 2015)

*HP shampoo bar success !*

Well its only been a couple of weeks since I made this and I used it this morning ..  small lasting bubbles ,great rich lather, my hair feels great.  My wife loved it my oldest daughter said it made her hair feel funny (This evening ) but we will see after it dries in the morning . It has such a nice earthy smell rosemary ,mint , (very small amount of mint I cannot detect it  ) and infused chamomile flowers .... for fragrance smells good enough to eat . Very earthy smell this is such a great recipe 

6% superfat 
I infused 2 oz chamomile blossoms in the oils except the shea butter (I  added that in the end ) I used flat beer for  the liquid /lye solution 
Avocado Oil         440.00g 27.85%                            
Castor Oil         120.00g         7.59% 
                           Olive Oil         600.00g         37.97% 
                           Shea Butter (Unrefined)         120.00g         7.59% 
                           Sunflower Seed Oil         300.00g         18.99% 
                                              6% Lye (Sodium Hydroxide) Amount         198.039g         
                  Grams of liquid recommended         521.40g


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## Obsidian (Mar 31, 2015)

Its possible your daughter is experiencing funky hair syndrome. This is caused from a build up of styling products, especially "cones" like silicone or dimethicone. These aren't easily washed away with homemade soap, this is why funky hair syndrome can last a few weeks, it takes this long to gradually wash away the build up.

A quick way to skip the funk is to use a clarifying shampoo with no oils or cones before switching to shampoo bars. I really like suave daily clarifying shampoo, its deep cleaning and will get all the nasty build up off the hair. Even though I use shampoo bars, I still clarify with the suave every two weeks or so, it keeps my hair shiny and soft. 

Replacing any hair products that contain cones is recommended too. Instead of using silicone based serum for my frizzy hair, I use a few drops of almond oil or even shea butter.


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