# My Soap Business - Can't do it.



## brian0523 (Mar 24, 2009)

Well I've been soaping for about a year and a half now, with the intent to sell soap at a local indoor flea market, online, and a few other opportunities.

Just this week I actually registered my business name with the state of New Jersey, and received my tax ID number, so I'm officially a business in NJ.  Yea me right?  Well not so fast!  I get a call yesterday from my local township official.  The man says he was informed by the State Dept of Taxation that I'm a new small business owner and I have to be issued a registration or permit for my business before I can begin making sales. He wants to know how the soap is made, which I fully explained.  I also made it clear that this would be a very small operation, and that I expected to bring in less than $500 sales per month.  He went on to explain that the State and Township require that I be issued a permit to make soap by the Department of Fire and Hazardous Materials.  I need this permit because of the process melting oil, and storing a hazardous chemical (lye).

I explained to him that I don't store more than 5 pounds of lye, and that very little quantities of hard oils are used in my formulations.  Apparently, that doesn't matter.  There's also a regulation in place that I would have to install a professional grade stove and exhaust fan - costing about $5000.  And my setup would be subject to random inspection, and if I'm in violation of these requirements I would be fined $2000 per incident.

Well at this point my head is spinning, I'm depressed, and I'm pissed-off big time!

I guess I'm looking for advice if anyone has come up against this when you opened a soaping business from your home.  I don't know of any professional NJ soapers here who could help.

This is just so upsetting. I know rules/regulations are put in place to help ensure safety, but it's not like I'm storing enough lye to cause a fire or explosion.  And the whole issue about the lye vapor being a fire hazard is just laughable.


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## surf girl (Mar 24, 2009)

Is there any process by which you could apply for an exemption based on the small size of your enterprise?


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## Bigmoose (Mar 24, 2009)

I can't belive it.  WOW am I glad I did not have to go thru that.  I am an honest person but you may think otherwise with what I say next.  What if you made your soap and were to give it to a neighbor.  Then your neighbor could open a soap buisness and when they hit him up with the safety stuff he can say "I don't make it, I just sell it".

I feel for you.  I hope things improve for you.

Bruce


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## 7053joanne (Mar 24, 2009)

Wow!  I'm in NJ too and actually called the town when I started my business to make sure I didn't have to get any permits or anything.  They could have cared less.


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## Tabitha (Mar 24, 2009)

My town also has a NO-SOAP policy. There is a list of  things you can not do as a biz in the city limits. No soap making, not chicken slaughtering, etc.

How big is your town? Can you go before the city council & ask for an exemption? That is what i would do first.

Can you go to a friends house in the next town over & make it there?


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## Lindy (Mar 24, 2009)

OMG - that is beyond nuts!!!!  Is there someone you can go to in order to bypass them?  Can you call your Governor's office or Representative or something?  That is just beyond crazy......... :shock:  :shock:  :shock:


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## ilovedoxies (Mar 24, 2009)

I suppose this is all a part of the economic stimulus plan to encourage people to work and earn an income in these "tough economic times".

I live in WV, it is extremely difficult to operate a small buisness here.  Loads of taxes, fees, registrations, etc.  WV even had out state slogan changed to "Open for Business" a few years ago.  What a joke!


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## Tabitha (Mar 24, 2009)

> That is just beyond crazy.........



It realy isn't. Do you want your next door neighbor to store 500# of lye in their back yard, 20 feet from where your children play? HAZMAT must have rules governing such things.

I wouild think it would be pretty easy to get an exemption though for small qty if you go through the proper chanels.


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## brian0523 (Mar 24, 2009)

Tabitha said:
			
		

> My town also has a NO-SOAP policy. There is a list of  things you can not do as a biz in the city limits. No soap making, not chicken slaughtering, etc.
> 
> How big is your town? Can you go before the city council & ask for an exemption? That is what i would do first.
> 
> Can you go to a friends house in the next town over & make it there?



Thanks Tab - that's my next step in the process. I'm looking into it right now as we speak.  How many hoops and how high can I jump to make what will amount to chicken scratch?


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## brian0523 (Mar 24, 2009)

7053joanne said:
			
		

> Wow!  I'm in NJ too and actually called the town when I started my business to make sure I didn't have to get any permits or anything.  They could have cared less.



Joanne you lucked out!  Are you in a more rural part of NJ?  I'm in Burlington county.


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## brian0523 (Mar 24, 2009)

You know I'm thanking God right now that all the money I put into start-up costs came directly from my own pocket and not a small business loan.


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## carillon (Mar 24, 2009)

Brian, thank you for bringing to light the serious issues that people can run into when they entertain the idea of starting their own home-based soap/candle business.  It's just lucky that you found this stuff out in advance without having to face penalties for not following the rules.

I guess each township can vary with their requirements, but I wonder how many people are doing business under the radar and not playing by the rules the way you have tried to do.  

It must seem like a real slap in the face and I don't blame you for being depressed, but what I've found is that it never hurts to escalate the issue to the next level.  Too many people take no for an answer when they don't have to.  You definitely need to take the matter to your town board and see if they will allow an exemption in your case.

I understand why they would want the restrictions, but if they can give you a break, you could become a valuable resource for the community by contributing a greater share of taxes that helps support the infrastructure, the town's fire and police, and hire local citizens who will also contribute to their tax base.  Maybe that's the way to approach it--show how it will help the town in the future.


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## surf girl (Mar 24, 2009)

Ditto carillon.  I would put together a presentation for the council or whoever governs such things, regarding the maximum amount of lye and fat you will be dealing with, what precautions you will be taking, pollution issues, etc.  And I would also point out that the town would be supporting a small business in these "tough economic times."  In short, present why it is you think it is reasonable for you to have an exemption.


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## Lindy (Mar 24, 2009)

I guess I'm just naive, it just never occurred to me that you can't make soap as a business anywhere you want as long as you carry the appropriate insurance.
 :? 
However back to topic - Brian I agree with everyone else that you need to not take no for an answer and go to Town Council or whatever governing body that can give you an exemption.

Cheers
Lindy


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## I love soap! (Mar 24, 2009)

*Ugh*

Anything for a little more money


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## carillon (Mar 25, 2009)

In my town, in order to be on the agenda you have to make a request in advance to bring your issue to the council.  I think a presentation as Surf Girl suggested is exactly what you need to do. 

Give all the council members a bar of your soap.  Bring small jars of oils and lye, maybe even a mold to show them the tools of your trade.  

Then explain how your small operation poses no more danger than every other house in the neighborhood that stores paints and varnishes, drain cleaner, fertilizer, gasoline for the lawnmower, motor oil, hair dye, hair spray, fingernail polish, bleach, ammonia, lighter fluid, propane, air fresheners, bug spray, etc., -- ALL things that probably 90% of all  households have on hand that could produce noxious fumes, fire, or explosions if stored improperly or used incorrectly.


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## MsBien (Mar 25, 2009)

Excellent advice, make a presentation to the group of people who can make it possible for you.  Have all the tools and samples, and show them that you're a human being trying to make it on today's economy. 

Good luck, this is really scary if you ask me.  I hope that this kind of blanket control isn't going to be a trend.  I appreciate the idea of keeping things safe, but this is excessive, IMHO.

Please keep us updated.

Stacie


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## carillon (Mar 25, 2009)

brian0523 said:
			
		

> I get a call yesterday from my local township official.  The man says he was informed by the State Dept of Taxation that I'm a new small business owner and I have to be issued a registration or permit for my business before I can begin making sales. He wants to know how the soap is made, which I fully explained.  I also made it clear that this would be a very small operation, and that I expected to bring in less than $500 sales per month.  He went on to explain that the State and Township require that I be issued a permit to make soap by the Department of Fire and Hazardous Materials.  I need this permit because of the process melting oil, and storing a hazardous chemical (lye).
> 
> I explained to him that I don't store more than 5 pounds of lye, and that very little quantities of hard oils are used in my formulations.  Apparently, that doesn't matter.  There's also a regulation in place that I would have to install a professional grade stove and exhaust fan - costing about $5000.  And my setup would be subject to random inspection, and if I'm in violation of these requirements I would be fined $2000 per incident.



Everytime I read your post it makes me angry to think about it.  A hundred years ago people weren't using commercial stoves and didn't have exhaust fans in their homes when they made soap, yet they survived and apparently didn't blow up the neighborhood in the process.  

It is ludicrous for them to take an ancient process and over complicated it by incorporating excessive rules.  Yes, you should have a fire extinguisher handy; yes, you should keep MSDS on file and you should be informed about proper disposal of containers or material, and that's about as far as they need to go.  I think if you could show them that you are a responsible businessman/soapmaker they should cut you some slack on this one.  It's not like you were asking for a permit to make meth.  If you decide to go before the board and would like any help with a speech, please let me know.


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## Tabitha (Mar 25, 2009)

> A hundred years ago


 100 years ago your neighbor was 1/2 mile aways. WE are sitting on top of each other now. I agree a small time production of soapmaking should be permitted in city limits, but our personal right end when they infringe upon our neighbor. The city has no idea (at this point) how much lye will be used/needed. Lines have to be drawn. I really do expect the city/town to give an excelption for a small scale soap biz with boundries on qty.


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## carillon (Mar 25, 2009)

In some areas neighbors were a 1/2 mile away 100 years ago, but there were also row houses, which have been in existence for several hundred years actually.


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## Tabitha (Mar 25, 2009)

... and the average life span of a woman 100 years ago (prior to laws governing such things as hasardous material) was 48. People did not survive, for many reasons. 

My point was, you can't compare then & now they are 2 very differnt situations.


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## brian0523 (Mar 25, 2009)

Thank you Carillon and everyone for you support!  I really needed to read those posts of encouragement - it's very easy to throw in the towel when you face a road-block.

I'm going to take your advice and set up a face-to-face meeting with our town council, and do exactly as you have suggested - full presentation of the soap process, how much supplies I expect to carry, samples - the whole thing.

It became very obvious after speaking with the gentleman on the phone that he knew lye was involved and he automatically assumed Hazmat.  If I were intending to be a full-time soaper (which I am not by a long shot) then their concerns would be valid - and I could see one requiring a dedicated work area with professional grade exhaust, storage, ect.  But I hope once I show them my plans; that I'm going to be a one-man business, selling soap on the side, with no plans to go into full production and hording drums of lye and oil in my kitchen, they will make an exemption for me.

It is amusing though - all I'm trying to do is take a hobby and make a little money on the side - and do it legally by reporting it as income.  I could have just avoided all this and stayed under the radar.  I'm certain 90% of the people selling at outdoor flea markets are not collecting tax and reporting their income.  I know personally I've never been charged tax at a flea market.  So what can do?  lol

I'll be sure to keep everyone updated on my progress.  And I will beg for your help if I need it!

Thanks again for your support!!!!


BTW - forgot to mention - I'm looking into the requirements in the town where my parents own a home (also in NJ) - hoping they are more relaxed over there just in case I have no luck where I live.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2009)

Tabitha -- you've mentioned that you own a brick and mortar soap store.  Is it outside of city limits, or...?


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## Tabitha (Mar 25, 2009)

I don't make CP. I make bath & body and order CP from another soapmaker. My B&M is a consignment gallery.

I am sure if I did decide to make my own I could get a variance for small scale production. Our variances are free of charge & just take a city council vote.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2009)

Ah, OK.


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## The Queen (Mar 25, 2009)

Lye is an official HAZMAT material. It simply would not be safe to have anyone & everyone running around & storing it in any fashion they choose.

I obtained a permit for the material quite simply,  showing basic knowledge of the product, and hopefully you should as well.


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## 7053joanne (Mar 27, 2009)

Yeah I am in Sussex up in NW Jersey....in the mountains.  I'm sorry you are having such a hard time.  i would think there has to be a way to get an exception.  Good luck and keep us posted


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2009)

I'm confident you can get an exception.  The US government is just super bureaucratic, you have one guy on autopilot "just doing his job" so you have to go up the chain until you get someone using a small degree of reason and rationale.

You can do it -- just have to get through the red tape.  I hope you'll keep us posted.


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## digit (Mar 27, 2009)

carillon said:
			
		

> I think a presentation as Surf Girl suggested is exactly what you need to do.
> 
> Give all the council members a bar of your soap.  Bring small jars of oils and lye, maybe even a mold to show them the tools of your trade.
> 
> Then explain how your small operation poses no more danger than ..........


Excellent ideas!!!! Do show them the safety equipment that you use. May want to gently point out that these are the same safety controls anyone of them would use when handling the dangerous products in their homes such as bug sprays and various cleaning gear. Which many do not, but it would be nice to get them thinking about their own household items. If they ask, diplomatically suggest that they read the warning labels and request the MSDS for the products.

I have watched you planning for some time now and wish you the very best. 

Digit


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2009)

wow , the hoops one must jump through to do something you love to do..


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## digit (Apr 3, 2009)

Any update Brian?

Digit


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## moondancer (Apr 6, 2009)

Wow. After reading this, I'm depressed and I don't even live in the States! LOL I'll be sticking with MP soaps so that I don't have to contend with this sort of thing. I'm sure Alberta, and this town, have all sorts of things they can bring into play unless I keep it as simple as possible. Like you, Brian, I just want to make a bit of money so I can have a better life. I'm not trying to become Lush or Body Shop. LOL


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## Gracie (Apr 6, 2009)

Check out the local churches in your area, often their kitchens are professional and meet the code requirements.  Then approach the church and offer to rent out the kitchen to you during the week for a day or two at a nominal charge, for your soapmaking. 

Just a thought.


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## Lindy (Apr 6, 2009)

Moondancer - Canada is way easier to do this business in.  We have legislation covering our industry (Cosmetics) and you want to make sure you have insurance before you start selling.  We do not have the incredibly stringent laws regarding lye that the US has so rest easy on that.

If you want to send me your email via PM I will send you a sample Business Plan so you can figure out how to write a Business Plan - Ashley is going through this right now too.  In Canada we have what's called the Silf-Employment Plan - here is a post where I talk about this program and believe me when I tell you it is well worth the effort - http://soapmakingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7501.  If approved they will pay you a living allowance while you set up your business.

Sorry - I didn't mean to hijack this thread -


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## Gracie (Apr 6, 2009)

And in Canada you also have to have your receipes approved by Health Canada.  Not that its hard to do, just time consuming, filling out all the forms.


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## surf girl (Apr 6, 2009)

Gracie, great idea re the kitchen.


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## Tabitha (Apr 6, 2009)

> We do not have the incredibly stringent laws regarding lye that the US has so rest easy on that.


I personally am able to rest easy because we have minimum safety laws re: lye and other hazardous materials in place. I am glad my neighbor can not store 50 ponds of lye in her backyard. 

Every country, town, etc has their own set of minimum safety hoops to jump through. IE) Canada requires recipes be approved/registered, the states do not. Specs may differ, but the purpose is the same, to set a minimum saftey standard for a given area.


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## Lindy (Apr 6, 2009)

Tabitha you're right - in the wrong hands lye is extremely dangerous, fortunately there aren't that many of those types of hands around and I tend to think of it as just another chemical that is useful but needs to be respected.  I guess for me it's nice to not have one more hoop to jump through or the opportunity for someone to tell me no so I have a knee-jerk reaction when I hear of people being told no they can't do a legitimate business.

Gracie is right we do have to register our recipes with the Government - there is no cost to it - nor do you have to wait for the approval - we only hear from them if there is a problem like we're using an ingredient either on the hotlist or in proportions not approved.  Part of the reason to register the recipe & ingredients that you use is to protect yourself if someone complains to the government about you - if they know what you are using they can tell the consumer that the recipe falls within Health Canada's guidelines.  

To obtain lye we do have to pay for hazardous good shipping or get a local supplier to bring it in for us.  I have chosen to have it brought in by a local store for a couple of reasons - one ~ I like to support our local economy & two ~ even though it's a little more money I like the product just a tad more.


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## Gracie (Apr 6, 2009)

With all do respect Lindy, I have a different opinion. You need to wait for approval from Health Canada, they do send a letter of approval, in my experience with them.  And your facility should  always be open for inspection, in my experience they come 2 times a year.

I whole heartily agree that Canadian soapers need insurance, but the insurance companies do have loop holes in their contracts, to make sure you comply with  Health Canada Requirements.  Its to protect our customers.

Paperwork, is the bain of my existence, but its a must in this business.  Including the paperwork, for each recipe, required for being approved by the Health Department.

If I hijacked this thread, please forgive me.


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## Lindy (Apr 6, 2009)

Thanks Gracie for correcting me - I have sent paperwork into them and I understood, obviously mistakenly that they just wanted the recipes registered.  So I'll contact them again and find out when I can expect the approvals.  I sent it in February - how long did it take for you to receive your approvals?

Cheers
Lindy


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## moondancer (Apr 7, 2009)

Thank you all for giving me a bit more information on this business. For now at least, I shall stick with MP soaps. Will I have to submit recipes for that or is it only for CP and HP? I know about the insurance and will have it in place when I get going. There is so much to make sure you have looked after! LOL My notebook gets thicker with each day. I'm just glad I found this site with so many helpful people. 

Oh, Lindy. I am already working with Community Futures in my area. They've given me their business plan, which I'm following, even though it isn't one I will use for my business afterward. It's rather generic and seems to be more laid out for bigger businesses than what I am working on getting going. At any rate, I am using theirs because it is theirs.  They are the ones who want all these stats though, which is where I'm really stuck. As far as I know there is no one in my immediate area who makes soaps... however, there may be and they may only show up at the Christmas craft shows and perhaps a farmer's market. Not sure how to figure out what my "market share" is but I will keep at it. LOL

Thanks again for the information.


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## Lindy (Apr 7, 2009)

Moondancer if you go to this thread (http://soapmakingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9272 you can read up on the requirments and yes even though you are doing M&P you have to complete the forms and submit them.  When you're using a third party who creates your base they will rquire a letter from them regarding the formulation - as far as I understand.  I could be quite mistaken so I truly recommend reading on the site listed in that thread.

HTH


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## moondancer (Apr 7, 2009)

Thanks Lindy! I've bookmarked all the sites you listed in your thread and will be diligently researching.


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## madpiano (Apr 11, 2009)

These rules really seem to be very silly. 

1) if you go to a hardware store to buy drain cleaner and don't use it all at once you will be storing lye at home, but the local fire brigade doesn't even know about it

2) every time you cook with coconut oil / palm oil you will be melting this while doing cooking and much hotter than you would ever do this for soap. Do you need a license to cook with hard oils ??? (and some people are stupid enough to heat butter to the point where it goes up in flames or forget about their chip pan)

Unless you turn into the Body Shop you wont have any larger amounts of those perfectly legal ingredients at home than most households. I know if you make bio diesel here the local fire chief has to come round to make sure that you are storing everything safely and they need to know about it in case you ever have a fire in your house, but it's not a big deal. Can you ask at your local fire brigade ?


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## oldragbagger (Jul 15, 2009)

Holy Crap.

I just printed out the application to register my trade name and after reading all this, I am thinking about tearing it up already.


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## kittywings (Jul 15, 2009)

Geez, my hubby's a firefighter and he has to deal with hazmat stuff all the time and he never even thought twice about me and my lye.  In fact, I was just down at the fire house tonight and I was talking about making my stuff to the firefighters and the captain didn't blink an eye... not that that means you can go willy nilly w/out permits and stuff.  Guess, I've got some research to do about Arizona's laws.


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