# Candle Science FOs dissapear in cold process?



## SunRiseArts (Oct 4, 2017)

I love the fragrances from candle science. My son got me a bunch of them when they had their sale.

I have been  using them lately, and after a week of cure the smell is so faint .... anyone else experience this?

I have been making some loafs for my fair in December, and I am worried the soaps will have no smell :neutral:


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## KattChaos (Oct 4, 2017)

"suing" darn autocorrect did it to you again!


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## psfred (Oct 5, 2017)

Several things are going on here.  First, if the aromatic chemicals in the FO are altered by strong lye, the scent will fade quite a bit from the presence of lye until saponification is complete.  Takes a few days for CP.

Second, some of the aromatic chemicals will evaporate from the soap fairly easily (lemon for instance, also orange, is notorious for rapid fading).

Third, the scent can be trapped in the soap as it crystalizes during aging.

Can't speak to Candle Science as I've not used their fragrances, but Brambleberry's Fierce fades quite a bit (which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned, but you may not agree!).  

Sometimes the scent will magically reappear when you wash with the soap, probably because more is released as the soap dissolves into lather.  

I've found that scents hold better in hot process soaps, at least the few that I've done both with.  Haven't been at this hobby long enough to give you any more information than that, though.


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## SunRiseArts (Oct 5, 2017)

KattChaos said:


> "suing" darn autocorrect did it to you again!


   lol I fixed it.  I need to be more careful.

Lately if I do not see a red line, I think is ok.


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## SunRiseArts (Oct 5, 2017)

psfred said:


> Several things are going on here. First, if the aromatic chemicals in the FO are altered by strong lye, the scent will fade quite a bit from the presence of lye until saponification is complete. Takes a few days for CP.
> 
> Second, some of the aromatic chemicals will evaporate from the soap fairly easily (lemon for instance, also orange, is notorious for rapid fading).
> 
> ...


 


 I did exclusively HP for over a year, and I did not have as many issues, but I only used scent from BB and NG in the past.

So I agree with you.


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## shunt2011 (Oct 5, 2017)

I tried several for CS and didn't have much luck with them. They either disappeared or morphed in my soap or I just didn't like them OOB and still have the samples as no time to test.


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## Kamahido (Oct 5, 2017)

I have never used their products, but from the look of their prices it does make me wonder. For my money, I have no problem paying over $30 a pound for Brambleberry's Dragon's Blood Fragrance as it is still going strong over a year later in my cold process soap.


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## SunRiseArts (Oct 5, 2017)

Thank you guys.  Wished I known before I used them!


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## Millie (Oct 5, 2017)

I soaped five of their FOs in July in CP at .9 oz PPO. They are all very strong (maybe a little too strong). Only one morphed badly. 

When I was ordering I carefully checked reviews to make sure other soapers had success with them. I also avoided most of the FOs that boasted the inclusion of EOs: many of those had citrus notes and others I thought would fade, changing the overall scent, if those were the EOs used. I thought they would be included based on how cheap they are compared to other EOs. Um, it took a while to pull that order together... and yeah, I'm always that fussy  :headbanging:


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## SunRiseArts (Oct 5, 2017)

Thank you Millie! I do check reviews. I avoided the ones people said would, rise but I did not think of EOs. Very clever, will need to do that if I buy from them again.

I love their scent. They are fantastic, orchid and Himalayan salt is to die for. I also love their tea and ginger type scents.

I have tried them in sot candle, and everyone I show them too and sniff goes crazy for them. Too bad they are not strong always on CP. But I like to do a bit of MP, so maybe they work better with those.


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## SunRiseArts (Nov 19, 2017)

well, now the soaps are fully cured and something crazy happened. The scent came back! I am so happy.

Anyone experience that before?


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## Millie (Nov 19, 2017)

Hurray! 
Yup, that has happened to me a few times.


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## jcandleattic (Nov 20, 2017)

SunRiseArts said:


> well, now the soaps are fully cured and something crazy happened. The scent came back! I am so happy.
> 
> Anyone experience that before?



Yes, several times, with several suppliers FO's. Actually I think I've had it happen with at least 1 or 2 FO's from every supplier I use, but I use a lot of FO's from a lot of suppliers, so it's bound to happen and I just roll with it. 
If the scent is completely gone in 12 weeks, and doesn't come back, even when the soaps get wet/lathered, then that scent gets delegated to candles only until the bottle is gone and then I don't repurchase.


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## SunRiseArts (Dec 12, 2017)

This is so interesting.  Funny how unpredictable FOs can be!  Are EOs the same way?


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## jcandleattic (Dec 13, 2017)

SunRiseArts said:


> This is so interesting.  Funny how unpredictable FOs can be!  Are EOs the same way?



I don't work with EO's because I find no matter how I try to anchor them, there are like 3-4 (Lime, Lemongrass, Patchouli) that stick and the rest fade to absolutely nothing by a 8-10 week cure, and they are just not worth the cost. Also I make candles, so I like working with scents that can work in all of my applications, and EO's for me, just do not work in wax/candles. I just don't know what the secret is, and know others can get them to work, but I've never been able to.


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## PrairieLights (Dec 13, 2017)

I have been trying to switch over and test out CS fragrances because I use them in my candles. Like jcandleattic, I like to be able to use my frags in all of my recipes. I have been trying to post my results on the master sheet here on SMF. Please do the same! That way we can all know how CS frags are behaving in soaps, (and other fragrances as well), saving each other money and heartache. BTW, their Dragon's Blood does last in CP soap!

(jcandlattic, I use essential oils in my aromatherapy candles with excellent success. Yes, there is a secret. Since I love your sig line, I will share it with you...)


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## jcandleattic (Dec 13, 2017)

PrairieLights said:


> (jcandlattic, I use essential oils in my aromatherapy candles with excellent success. Yes, there is a secret. Since I love your sig line, I will share it with you...)



I got your PM and replied, thank you. 
I've been changing my signature line about once a month, so I'm glad you like this one.  It'll probably change again near the new year. LOL


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## SunRiseArts (Dec 13, 2017)

PrairieLights said:


> I have been trying to switch over and test out CS fragrances because I use them in my candles. Like jcandleattic, I like to be able to use my frags in all of my recipes. I have been trying to post my results on the master sheet here on SMF. Please do the same! That way we can all know how CS frags are behaving in soaps, (and other fragrances as well), saving each other money and heartache. BTW, their Dragon's Blood does last in CP soap!
> 
> (jcandlattic, I use essential oils in my aromatherapy candles with excellent success. Yes, there is a secret. Since I love your sig line, I will share it with you...)


 

May I know the secret too?  Pleeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssssseeeeee?


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## jofa (Mar 10, 2018)

psfred said:


> Several things are going on here.  First, if the aromatic chemicals in the FO are altered by strong lye, the scent will fade quite a bit from the presence of lye until saponification is complete.  Takes a few days for CP.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Psfred what do you mean by "strong lye"? Are you talking about concentration? I've been having troubles with fading fos and I soap with a steep water discount. That's why your post caught my attention!


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## psfred (Mar 10, 2018)

Well, lye strong enough to saponify fats would be strong in my book!  I don't think there's enough difference between "full water" and "33% lye" to make a huge difference in scent behavior.

I have found that scents seem to be stronger in hot process soap, probably because they are not exposed to such high pH, but have not made enough soap or kept it long enough to say it's more than an initial impression.

Aroma chemicals are by their very nature volatile -- if they didn't evaporate into the air, we could not smell them!  All soap scent fade eventually.

Generally the scent will "return" when you use the soap, at least with most of the one's I've tried.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Mar 11, 2018)

Whether or not you use more or less water, the amount of actual caustic stays the same. It might be more diluted, but the same grams/ounces of KOH or NaOH is going in to the pot with the same amount of scent and oils. Lye solution concentration will not have a noticeable impact on scent retention


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## jofa (Mar 11, 2018)

Thank you psfred!!


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## Kari (Apr 19, 2018)

All I can tell you is that their Golden Rose scent lingered well after the bars were made. My soap, my laundry room (where I store soapy dishes), My entire apartment, me! smelled like roses for about a week. I swear I could _taste_ roses.

Funny enough that fragrance is the one I used for the bars in my avatar, lol.


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