# Has anybody made Butter Bars from Ophelias Soapery?



## Catscankim (Jun 21, 2020)

I am still learning the soapcalc. She has a tutorial and recipe on youtube for her Butter Bars. I sill dont know if its the name or the recipe that has me in love lol.

The recipe is as follows:

45% Olive oil
15% coconut oil
10% mango butter
10% shea butter
10% castor oil
5%  cocoa butter
5% kokum butter

Superfat 6%

35% lye concentration

sodium lactate 5%
sugar 3%

so for a 1000g oils bar (to make soap for my 1300g mold)

i came up with this recipe in the soap calc. Im not sure if i am doing it right so all constructive criticism welcome lol.

also, i am missing a few of these ingredients. Has anybody tried this recipe? The end product on her video seems divine. I want to make sure i should invest in this if anybody can tell me if its as divine as i think lol


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## Anstarx (Jun 21, 2020)

From the look of it, it'd be a decent body bar. Hard with moderate bubbles. The 10% castor may make tracing a tad fast but if you are not aiming for a complex design it should be fine.
I personally don't use mango butter or kokum butter as they are just too expensive for me but I've heard good things about mango butter. I'd try a smaller batch if cost is a concern for you. My usual batch is around 400-600g oils.


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## Obsidian (Jun 21, 2020)

I also suggest making a small batch. This is a expensive recipe to make a big amount only to end up hating it.
I know personally I wouldn't like it, too much olive and too much butters but others would love it.


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## cmzaha (Jun 22, 2020)

I make a 59% shea butter bar with 12% CO, 5% Castor, 24% any liquid oil other than OO, 3% superfat with a min 5-month cure. It makes a lovely bubbly gentle bar of soap. The longer it cures the better it will lather. OO can be used, I just dislike OO.


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## Anstarx (Jun 22, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> I make a 59% shea butter bar with 12% CO, 5% Castor, 24% any liquid oil other than OO, 3% superfat with a min 5-month cure. It makes a lovely bubbly gentle bar of soap. The longer it cures the better it will lather. OO can be used, I just dislike OO.


That sounds like a interesting recipe! How was the trace speed? I'd like to try something like that for a coffee soap.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 22, 2020)

If you don't mind the expense, can source all the ingredients, and want to make this recipe, that's totally your call. But don't get overly carried away with the picture painted by the recipe's author - keep it realistic. 

If you want to use mango butter (or any other "luxury" fat) in soap, that's fine, but don't let artful and imaginative writing lure you into thinking that mango butter is somehow superior to comparable fats and will inevitably produce a superior bar of soap.

It's easy to assume the properties of the fats carry over into the soap, but that's an inaccurate assumption. Lye dismantles the fats into fatty acids and then turns the fatty acid building blocks into soap. I really doubt any of us can tell the stearic acid supplied by mango butter apart from the stearic acid from lard, for example, once these FAs end up as soap. 

Even if a fat molecule remains unsaponified, it can be stripped of one or two of its fatty acids, turning the original triglyceride fat into a mono- or di-glyceride with different properties than the original fat.

If you look at Carolyn's recipe with 59% shea, only the large amount of shea stands out as an unusual ingredient. The rest of the ingredients are workhorse fats -- nothing fancy there.


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## shunt2011 (Jun 22, 2020)

Perfectly stated above by DeeAnna.  I wouldn't care for it because of the OO percentage.   I make a lard bar with 10% shea in it and it's amazing in my opinion.   I don't need a lot of fancy oils/butters in my soaps.   I sell so seeing  shea appeals to people.


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## Catscankim (Jun 23, 2020)

shunt2011 said:


> Perfectly stated above by DeeAnna.  I wouldn't care for it because of the OO percentage.   I make a lard bar with 10% shea in it and it's amazing in my opinion.   I don't need a lot of fancy oils/butters in my soaps.   I sell so seeing  shea appeals to people.



do you find that your customers get turned off by lard in the recipe? My sister made a vomit face at me when i said i had been using lard. I have made several loaves of lard and CO. And lard is so cheap!


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## TheGecko (Jun 23, 2020)

It’s a soap I plan to try, but in a much smaller quantity..about 20 oz of oils.

I’ve been playing a bit with Kokum Butter, but haven’t tried Mango Butter. I really want to try Cranberry Butter, but it’s like gold. I don’t mind using ‘luxury’ ingredients for ‘luxury’ products.


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## cmzaha (Jun 23, 2020)

Anstarx said:


> That sounds like a interesting recipe! How was the trace speed? I'd like to try something like that for a coffee soap.


I use a 30% Lye concentration and I have plenty of time to pour in individual molds using 45 oz of oils in my batch. With a good long cure it lathers really well adding in sugar or sorbitol.


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## Catscankim (Jun 23, 2020)

TheGecko said:


> It’s a soap I plan to try, but in a much smaller quantity..about 20 oz of oils.
> 
> I’ve been playing a bit with Kokum Butter, but haven’t tried Mango Butter. I really want to try Cranberry Butter, but it’s like gold. I don’t mind using ‘luxury’ ingredients for ‘luxury’ products.


I have mango butter but not kokum butter Lol.

as you guys know, i do plan on trying to sell down the line. I know its gonna be a while to get experience. Its been weeks compared to your guys years.

But i need to get a few good recipes under my belt to figure out a few good ones to make perfect before i try to sell. Which i know is gonna be a year or so.

i wouldnt dream of selling anything imperfect just for somebody to later say ...oh kim had a good this or that soap last year, but this year its different and it sucks...

and i know im like yay i just did my first swirl soap. And i know im like yay i finally got my soap to not seize lol. I am learning a craft that i have quickly grown to love. I am a crafter by nature, so this is just natural to me lol. I have made a bunch of BB products, i can sew, embroider, and quilt. Its in my nature to make things with my hands.

i cant find my perfect soap recipe if i dont practice and learn a few recipes. So i have to learn a few recipes to appeal to my market. Does that make sense?

there is a local year round market that will probably buy soaps for $8 a bar year round, but then we have a richer market that will buy bars with expensive butters In season..


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## shunt2011 (Jun 23, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> do you find that your customers get turned off by lard in the recipe? My sister made a vomit face at me when i said i had been using lard. I have made several loaves of lard and CO. And lard is so cheap!



No, I do carry some vegan bars as well but not as much of a selection.  The majority of my soaps are lard.  If you don't want to use lard you can use palm or will have to use butters to get a good profile.   I don't make soap with expensive ingredients as I couldn't get the money back by selling.   I've found what works best for me (I do shows in tourist towns).  I sell my soap for 6-7 and that's about as high as I can go and continue to have great sales.   The market will only take so much.  Especially right now with COVID impacting so many households.


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## Catscankim (Jun 23, 2020)

Yeah. COVID is a whole different animal right now Lol.

I cant decide if vegans are more turned off by lard or palm oil, which i have made a point to only buy RSPO palm. So hopefully that will satisfy everybody.
right now im working on a gardeners soap with coffee. My new experiment.
i have a lot of experimenting to do to get something i love. Unfortunately it takes six weeks to find out if i love it lol.


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## AliOop (Jun 23, 2020)

I like to save most of my expensive ingredients for products where they can really make an impact. For instance, mango butter, shea butter, and jojoba oil in a body butter is an amazing combo for me and for my family.

In soap, I personally don't experience enough difference between mango and shea to justify the much higher cost of mango, which I'd rather hoard for my whipped body butter.

That being said, everyone is different. You may find that you and your skin LOVE this butter bar.  If you can afford to give it a whirl, why not?


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## cmzaha (Jun 23, 2020)

I was also able to acquire shea quite inexpensively which is why I make the high shea soap, but I really do not add it to many other soaps. But I have a feeling with so many small businesses closing I may have lost my small import supplier in LA, plus with the possibility of my shutting down my business, I doubt I will purchase in bulk anytime soon. 

As for using lard and tallow I had or have a large customer base for non-vegan soaps and my smaller vegan base buy my palm-based soaps with no issues. I actually have had very few customers over the years complain about palm. I will not make a vegan soap without palm since I do not use soy wax in soap and using the hard butters is not cost-effective. I sell to make money, and my markets would not support higher than $7 per bar for 5.6 oz bars.


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## AliOop (Jun 23, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> I have mango butter but not kokum butter Lol.


Try making the bar without the kokum butter then, and see how you like it. You can split the additional 5% between cocoa and olive to approximate the fatty acids you would get from kokum.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 23, 2020)

@Catskankim -- No one is going to criticize you for making "butter bars" if that's what you want to make. If your goal is to pursue a clientele who will pay a premium for your handcrafted soap, then you most likely _should _develop recipes with premium ingredients and premium packaging that will appeal to that particular crowd. And sometimes ya gotta try somethin' just to try it.


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## cmzaha (Jun 24, 2020)

TheGecko said:


> It’s a soap I plan to try, but in a much smaller quantity..about 20 oz of oils.
> 
> I’ve been playing a bit with Kokum Butter, but haven’t tried Mango Butter. I really want to try Cranberry Butter, but it’s like gold. I don’t mind using ‘luxury’ ingredients for ‘luxury’ products.


You could make your own cranberry butter. This is the ingredient /inci list from WSP and I think BB's is the same or close
Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea) Butter (and) Elaeis Guineensis (Palm) Butter (and) Simmondsia Chinensis (jojoba) Seed Oil (and) Vaccinium Macrocarpon (Cranberry) Fruit. Brambleberry states dried cranberries. So add the oils to your soap and grind up dried cranberries. I refuse to pay the price of these pseudo butters.


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## Catscankim (Oct 31, 2020)

Might be necroposting, but its my own post so  lol.

Anyway, every time go go through my recipe book i keep coming across this one that i wrote down months ago. So i am going for it.

Question though. I have been soaping at 33% lye concentration, this recipe says 35%. Is there a reason for this particular recipe that i should change my usual concentration? Or do you think thats what she normally soaps at?

And why so much castor oil do you think?

I plan to scent them with coconut, which is slightly accelerating, and discolors to light tan. In her video, she doesnt scent or color with anything, but i love the light buttery color that the soaps are. Do you think adding a fo that makes a light tan make them super dark? I really dont want to mess with td.


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## GemstonePony (Oct 31, 2020)

I imagine the high water is because those butters will trace in a New York minute, and the Castor is to help the bar absorb water for more abundant lather. Otherwise, high butter bars can be so hard that they're stingy with the lather, especially at first and if they dry out.
Edited because @TheGecko pointed out that she's not doing high water, she's doing lower water. In which case, I'm assuming it's what she soaps at. It's not low enough, I don't think, to slow trace, so I would just go with your normal liquid amount.


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## TheGecko (Oct 31, 2020)

GemstonePony said:


> I imagine the high water is



The higher the Lye Concentration, the LOWER the water.  For 16oz of oils at 33%, my water is 4.73 oz, lye is 2.33.  At 35%, my water drops down to 4.32 oz and at 40% it drops downs to 3.49 oz.


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## GemstonePony (Oct 31, 2020)

TheGecko said:


> The higher the Lye Concentration, the LOWER the water.  For 16oz of oils at 33%, my water is 4.73 oz, lye is 2.33.  At 35%, my water drops down to 4.32 oz and at 40% it drops downs to 3.49 oz.


Good catch, guess I wasn't awake yet.
I have edited my previous post.


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## TheGecko (Oct 31, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> Question though. I have been soaping at 33% lye concentration, this recipe says 35%. Is there a reason for this particular recipe that i should change my usual concentration? Or do you think thats what she normally soaps at?
> 
> And why so much castor oil do you think?
> 
> I plan to scent them with coconut, which is slightly accelerating, and discolors to light tan. In her video, she doesnt scent or color with anything, but i love the light buttery color that the soaps are. Do you think adding a fo that makes a light tan make them super dark? I really dont want to mess with td.



There are two Butter Bar recipes.  The first uses Rice Bran, the second uses Olive Oil and there are some other minor changes...including Lye Concentration.

Speaking for myself, the first time I use a recipe...cooking/baking or soap...I tend to follow the recipe as written if I want to get the same results. With that said, I've been cooking/baking for close to 50 years, so I am fairly comfortable making minor changes to a recipe based on available ingredients, but I've only been making soap for about a year and a half, so I stick to the recipe.

Now with that said, I don't know if Julie uses the same Lye Concentration on all her recipes or even if she uses the same recipe for all her soaps (excepting special soaps); I have watched her several techniques change over the last two years. But if you read the description in her second video, she does say: _You can use which ever lye ratio you prefer. The unmolding times may vary _

I would hazard to guess that the high Castor Oil is to balance out all the hard butters used.

In her first BB video she add a FO...some ginger white tea I think. In her second video, if you stop the video when she posts a pic of recipe from SoapCalc, it includes a Fragrance Ratio of 0.8 (7.50 oz).

ButterBar Video One: June 9, 2018
ButterBar Video Two:  February 12, 2020


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## earlene (Oct 31, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> And why so much castor oil do you think?



Castor is added to soap to enhance/support bubbles & lather.  Butter inhibit bubbles & lather.  Increasing the Castor helps to offset the inhibition by the butters and provide additional support in conjunction with the Coconut Oil.

You may find both of these of interest in reference to boosting & supporting desirable bubbles & lather:  








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More than once, a person browsing my table at a market has said something to the effect of "handmade soaps are so neat, but they don't really lather that well, right?" Which has surprised me and also led me to believe that this might be a common misconception if more than one person believes it.




					www.thumbprintsoap.com
				











						The Secret to the Absolutely Best Handmade Soap Recipe
					

The best soap recipe ever is the holy grail of soapmaking, and if you are on the hunt for it, I've got the secret to formulating the perfect soap recipe.




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## Catscankim (Oct 31, 2020)

TheGecko said:


> There are two Butter Bar recipes.  The first uses Rice Bran, the second uses Olive Oil and there are some other minor changes...including Lye Concentration.
> 
> Speaking for myself, the first time I use a recipe...cooking/baking or soap...I tend to follow the recipe as written if I want to get the same results. With that said, I've been cooking/baking for close to 50 years, so I am fairly comfortable making minor changes to a recipe based on available ingredients, but I've only been making soap for about a year and a half, so I stick to the recipe.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I didnt notice her saying to use whatever lye ratio you prefer. SMH. Over thinking i guess. I just dont want to screw up a recipe using expensive butters.

I will be making this next week. So be sure to expect more stupid questions lol. I am in a comfort zone with my regular recipes. Havent done anything so different. Maybe i will really step out of the comfort zone and try her heat transfer method lol.

I have been anti-microwave my whole life, except for popcorn lol. Ok, melting cheeze wiz too lol. I feel like it changes things, and nobody can change my mind about that.


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## Catscankim (Oct 31, 2020)

earlene said:


> Castor is added to soap to enhance/support bubbles & lather.  Butter inhibit bubbles & lather.  Increasing the Castor helps to offset the inhibition by the butters and provide additional support in conjunction with the Coconut Oil.
> 
> You may find both of these of interest in reference to boosting & supporting desirable bubbles & lather:
> 
> ...


Thank you! I love the castor oil in my soaps, but only add it at 5%. I havent made soaps with so much butter, so this makes sense.


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## TheGecko (Oct 31, 2020)

Catscankim said:


> I didnt notice her saying to use whatever lye ratio you prefer.



I don't think she does.  Again, it is in the description.  If you're watching from a PC, click on SHOW MORE.  On a tablet or iPad, there is a down arrow on the right hand side, under the screen.  Click that.


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## Dawni (Nov 1, 2020)

I make a triple butter bar (my most expensive soap to sell so I call it the luxury bar to myself lol) with mango, Shea and cocoa at 45% total. I don't use much coconut to begin with so mine's more or less the same, I don't up my castor though. I also don't use olive in mine.

What I do is cure extra. Like 4 months instead of my usual 2. The bar lasts forever but it doesn't lather much before 3-4mos. If you're selling you really have to take that into account. Maybe upping the castor helps with the lather. I haven't tried.


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