# Orange Mix Recommendation



## BrewerGeorge (Dec 16, 2015)

I'm not especially familiar with using EO's, having only used FO's before except for Tea Trea, so I'd appreciate a check on my mixing plans.

I'm planning to make a kitchen hand soap based on BB's 10x Orange EO, and thought I'd add a bit of litsea to anchor the orange, but I don't know how much.

I haven't quite decided whether to CP or HP at this point.  I'm leaning toward HP so we can discuss amounts in those terms and I'll just double the amounts if I decide to CP at the last minute.

I make a loaf with 40 oz of oils.  For HP, I was considering 1 oz of the 10x and something like a 1/4 or 1/2 oz of litsea, but again I'm not sure.  How much would you all recommend to enhance, but not overly influence the orange?  I don't want anybody smelling the soap to have any doubts that it's "Orange."

Additionally, this soap has an ounce of pumice.  Will the pumice act to anchor the scent in the same way that people recommend adding a bit of clay?

Finally, if I do decide to CP this mix, does 10x orange tend to have the glycerin river issue that I've been told happens with lemon EO?  If so, discounted water (maybe 25%?) will combat that, right?

Thanks!


----------



## dixiedragon (Dec 16, 2015)

I've never made soap with litsea cubeba, but I am fond of lemon grass as an orange anchor. I can't really recall the proportions I used, though.

In my experience, using orange EO REALLY slows down trace and the soap remains soft - meaning too soft to cut - for several days, even a week. Also it will make your soap orange.

I also like powdered citrus peel to anchor it. If you don't happen to have any powdered peel on hand, you could get a box of clementines (love those things), let the peel dry in a sunny window, and then powder it in a coffee grinder.


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Dec 16, 2015)

Thanks, Dixie.   This will be using the coconut oil with the beta carotene, so orange is preordained.


----------



## Seawolfe (Dec 16, 2015)

I have used approx 10-25% of Litsea to anchor orange. If I were you I would use the Brambleberry Fragrance Calculator (just pick any orance EO to get amounts) and the strong amount for cold process soap. About half that, or pick melt and pour on the calculator, for HP and add just before you mold with your superfat, as cool as possible.

I have used clays as an anchor before - actually soak the clay in the EO before adding, that worked. So sure - soak the pumice in the EO before adding to the soap 

Another thing that helps to fix scents is a nice blend of top, middle and bass notes. So on that note heres some ideas for blending:
http://joliechose.tripod.com/joliechosearomatherapy/id17.html
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/fb/bd/9b/fbbd9be1f3a6febc68f423a600c72e20.jpg


----------



## galaxyMLP (Dec 16, 2015)

I havent used listea cubea before.

I have used orange and tea tree in HP soap before. It makes a nice blend and it acutally sticks. I forget what ratio I used but I know I wrote it down somewhere. It does leave the soap a little soft like dixie says. I use straight orange oil (not folded) so you may have better luck than me. I'd use a very hard soap recipe for it because when I used it in mine, I didnt realize it would be softer and I used an already soft recipe.


----------



## Steve85569 (Dec 16, 2015)

BrewerGeorge said:


> Thanks, Dixie.   This will be using the coconut oil with the beta carotene, so orange is preordained.




I used a blue to try and get brown with this oil and got GREEN instead. Orange is not the only color with this oil. Of course you'll never get to white but the BC in the oil does act more like a yellow base when using colorants.

This also means that you are not limited to using only citrus in your soaps. I know what you were thinking because I got some of the same oil and have been experimenting on it ( so you don;t need to do the same).Steve


----------



## cmzaha (Dec 16, 2015)

Litsea is one of my favorite go to eo's because it has much more lemon pop than lemongrass. In fact I always mix it with lemongrass. Sorry can't help you with the orange since I do not use much orange eo, other than an orange patch combo,  but if I did I would probably go with 2:1, orange to litsea which is what I do with my orange, patchouli mix. For my customers orange just does not hold well.


----------



## Soapmaker145 (Dec 16, 2015)

I second what cmzaha said.  I mix lemongrass with Litsea.  Mine are from BB.  Lemongrass can vary a lot depending on supplier.  I find litsea more consistent. I also use the 10X orange from BB.  It is strong and it sticks much better than regular Orange EO.  

My suggestion is to make a mix of 2:1 lemongrass to litsea then mix it with varying amounts of 10X orange (like 1:2, 1:3, 1:4....).  Spot the mix on absorbent paper and let it air for few hours.  Pick the ratio that you like best.   

Once you have your mix, add to it some bentonite clay or dried orange peel or both, a day or 2 before you need it.  Shake the bottle periodically to mix the content.  If you have a fine microplane grater, you can grate the peel off oranges/lemons that you use for eating and let it dry to use in cooking or soaps.  

Make sure to mix the clay/FO slurry well before pouring.  Sometimes the clay doesn't want to mix well in FOs/EOs.  My suggestion for usage rate is 0.5 to 1 oz ppo depending on how strong you like it.

The lemongrass/litsea mix salvaged many sad citrusy FOs for me.


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Dec 16, 2015)

Good suggestion, but I don't have any lemongrass other than some green tea/lemongrass FO, and one of the goals for this soap is to avoid FOs...

I was not going to use bentonite in this soap (though I have some) because it already has pumice for scrubbing power.  Pumice is a porous, volcanic rock.  It should absorb and hold fragrance similarly to clay, right?  

I have made this soap before with Pink Grapefruit FO and it turned out quite well.  Very hard and long-lasting because my default hand/body soap starts with a "48" hardness from soapcalc and the pumice improves that even more.  If the 10x orange softens that a bit, I should hopefully still be okay.


----------



## Soapmaker145 (Dec 16, 2015)

I think the pumice will work just as well as any clay.  I've been using bentonite with my FOs tests.  You can actually see the FOs adsorb to the surface of the clay.  It changes color.  You'll be fine with 10x orange and litsea unless you want to run to whole Foods to check out what lemongrass they have. 

I used the 10x Orange in a mix and the soap was just as hard as any other after full cure.


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Dec 17, 2015)

Thanks, Everybody.

I went ahead and added the pumice to an ounce of 10x Orange and 1/2 oz of Litsea.  Seems a bit heavy on the litsea, but I can add more orange if I still feel the same after they've mixed and married. 

Still leaning more towards HP, if only to practice the unfamiliar technique.


----------



## dibbles (Dec 17, 2015)

I might be too late for help this time, but I find that BB Orange 10x sticks pretty well. I do mix it with litsea 3 or 4 parts orange to 1 part litsea. I find that litsea and lemongrass can both take over. Patchouli/orange is probably my favorite EO combination, sometimes also with a small amount of litsea. But I love patchouli, and I know everyone doesn't necessarily feel the same about it.


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Dec 17, 2015)

dibbles said:


> I might be too late for help this time, but I find that BB Orange 10x sticks pretty well. I do mix it with litsea 3 or 4 parts orange to 1 part litsea. I find that litsea and lemongrass can both take over. Patchouli/orange is probably my favorite EO combination, sometimes also with a small amount of litsea. But I love patchouli, and I know everyone doesn't necessarily feel the same about it.


I can still double up on the orange.  At this point, it's just soaking in the pumice.  That would be 2 oz 10x orange and 1/2 oz of litsea.  Anybody think that would be overpowering in 40oz of HP soap?  It IS meant for beside the kitchen sink, removing the smell of onions and garlic and such from hands if that matters.


----------



## doriettefarm (Dec 17, 2015)

I gotta agree with dibbles on the orange/patch combo.  It's a winner because the patch helps anchor the orange but I haven't tried the orange/litsea combo for comparison purposes.


----------



## dibbles (Dec 18, 2015)

I tend to like my soap well scented so I might not be the one to answer this, but I think it should be fine as long as it is within the safe usage range. EOs seem to fade faster than FOs too, at least for me.


----------



## Soapmaker145 (Dec 18, 2015)

I would definitely add more 10X orange because litsea tends to be strong.  2oz would be plenty strong for a 40 oz batch if you are doing HP.  Depending on how soon you think you will be using the soap, you might be able to use less.  If you are looking for a deodorizing FO mix, get some straight limonene and add it at 0.25% to 1%.  It is an amazing cleanser/deodorizer.  I added it to my laundry and dishwashing soap.

If you decide that you like the citrus mix, add citronella to the list of EO to keep on hand along with lemongrass and litsea.  These 3 can compliment/improve a lot of citrus FO or EO mixes.  I find that all 3 have their place.


----------



## green soap (Dec 23, 2015)

Litsea is very strong, so I agree with using a LOT more orange.

I make a scrub soap that has orange, litsea and rosemary.  The rosemary really adds something, but then it smells like a blend, rather than just orange as you wanted.  Try it some day though, very nice and refreshing.


----------



## BrewerGeorge (Dec 28, 2015)

Note to Self:  Orange EO is NOT great for HP.  The 120F flashpoint had me waiting so long for the batter to cool enough to add it that the soap had nearly hardened completely.  The result is an ugly mess, but it should work.  Lesson learned.

I ended up using 4:1 Orange:Litsea, by the way.  Smells great! 

Thanks for the help


----------



## Seawolfe (Dec 28, 2015)

You don't need to cool below the flashpoint. I mean, it's nice to go as cool as possible, but as I understand it, the flashpoint is relevant for shipping, not crafting. Heck those wax melts get hotter on purpose.


----------



## SplendorSoaps (Dec 28, 2015)

I haven't used the 10X Orange EO from BB, but I find that the 15X Orange EO from WSP sticks really well. That might help with the Litsea ratio. Litsea sticks really well for me, and customers LOVE it!


----------



## galaxyMLP (Dec 28, 2015)

Yep, seawolfe has it right. You don't need to go that low at all. I mix it in at anything less than 160. You loose some of the very top notes but you certainly keep the bulk of the scent. Flash point is the temperature at which there is enough volatile flammable gas being released that will ignite when exposed to a spark or flame. It has to do both with the flammability of the volatile components and also with the volume of volatile matter being released.  So some things that are suuuuper flamable have flash points that are super low but aren't even that volatile. There are a few things at work like that. Liquid at room temp but flash point of -40 C. 

Just make sure if you're working above the flash point that all sources of ignition are extinguished. We (a club I was in during college) were adding orange eo for flavor to molten candy at 300F (yes, waaay above flash point! But that's what the directions said to do!) And somehow there was a spark. My friends arm was given second degree burns and we had to go to the hospital.


----------



## soaring1 (Jan 16, 2016)

I use Orange 10x and Litsea 4 parts to 1 part in my citrus soap and add a splash of lemongrass.  Smells very refreshing. You will love the finished soap after curing.


----------

