# $/Bar



## DWinMadison (Mar 6, 2019)

Do any of you home/amateur soapers calculate or have a target cost/bar?  How much is too much?  What’s reasonable?  Last I calculated, I seem to recall I was running between $1.50 and $1.90, depending on the EOs used.  Is that even in the ballpark?  Note: This figure does not calculate the cost waste, and I seldom totally lose a soap.  As I said in another thread, “worst case I can usually use them myself as kitchen soap, foot scrubber soap, dog soap...something”


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## lenarenee (Mar 6, 2019)

You're asking about retail? Or if we put our soap on a budget and won't make a soap that costs more than a set price to make - whether we sell or give away?


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 6, 2019)

I'm not an amateur... been at it too long for that... but I am a hobbyist, so I don't think 1.50 - 1.80 is too much for personal use... especially if using essential oils. When in the creative zone, the sky's the limit! If you like pricey Babassu oil vs. pennywise Lard/Tallow, go for it. Once you develop a basic bar, you can feature as little as 5% of an additive, exotic oil or butter to create a "specialty" bar without adding much cost to a bar.


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## DWinMadison (Mar 6, 2019)

lenarenee said:


> You're asking about retail? Or if we put our soap on a budget and won't make a soap that costs more than a set price to make - whether we sell or give away?


Budget. Lol. Been trying to do this with my beloved


DWinMadison said:


> Do any of you home/amateur soapers calculate or have a target cost/bar?  How much is too much?  What’s reasonable?  Last I calculated, I seem to recall I was running between $1.50 and $1.90, depending on the EOs used.  Is that even in the ballpark?  Note: This figure does not calculate the cost waste, and I seldom totally lose a soap.  As I said in another thread, “worst case I can usually use them myself as kitchen soap, foot scrubber soap, dog soap...something”



Um, thanks for moving my post, but it has absolutely NOTHING to do with retail. I even specifically addressed it to home soapers and amateurs.


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 6, 2019)

DWinMadison said:


> Budget. Lol. Been trying to do this with my beloved... Um, thanks for moving my post, but it has absolutely NOTHING to do with retail. I even specifically addressed it to home soapers and amateurs.


I see your thread got moved to the Business Forum! ACK! Probably my fault for talking about cost to wholesale customers. I'm SO sorry, Daryl. I edited my post #3 to see if it can be moved back to where you intended... cross fingers


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## SideDoorSoaps (Mar 6, 2019)

Before we started making soap, I would buy soap at about $2 a bar from the store and it was my goal to make a bar of soap just as nice for the same price. It took a lot of research to find ingredients at a lower cost at the consumer level! I managed about $1.75 for ours and we only used unscented for the longest time!


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## amd (Mar 8, 2019)

When I started making soap my goal was 80cents a bar - but my soaps were uncolored and unscented. I was playing with a lot of different oils and buying in small amounts. I think if I went back to those plain unscented bars and buying in the quantities I currently buy, they would be much cheaper.


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## DWinMadison (Mar 8, 2019)

amd said:


> When I started making soap my goal was 80cents a bar - but my soaps were uncolored and unscented. I was playing with a lot of different oils and buying in small amounts. I think if I went back to those plain unscented bars and buying in the quantities I currently buy, they would be much cheaper.



Yeah, it the waste that kills me from batches I don't like.  Don't get me wrong, I use virtually everything I make, but I intend most of them for other people as gifts, and I'm not going to give someone something I not proud of.  I've noticed many commercial soapers stick to simple soaps choosing to focus more on ingredients and scents than elaborate colors that introduce more variables and variation in end products, which I totally understand.


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## karon L adams (Mar 9, 2019)

Don't be afraid to price your soap well. and remember, you have time and creativity in the soap, as well. Also, remember, Packaging sells as does color. but, if you price it "cheap" your customers will think of it as cheap. Don't be afraid to put a price tag on it.

as for "waste" don't worry about it. chop it up into chunks, toss it in a mold and fill with unscented cream colored soap and call it "Confetti" that's how you sell the leftovers.


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## Misschief (Mar 9, 2019)

I found it really interesting that, at the last market I did, I raised my prices by $2.00, from $5.00 per bar to $7.00 per bar. No one batted an eyelash. I agree with Hendejm that, as crafters, we tend to undervalue ourselves and our products. 

For another example, when I worked in a yarn shop (I'm multi-craftual), one customer was making scrap scarves for a Christmas market; they were gorgeous but she didn't sell a single one until someone told her that her prices were too low, compared to other vendors. She doubled her price and sold every single scarf she had brought to that market.


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 9, 2019)

Um, Karon, Hendejm & Misschief:  Please read post #3 & #4.  As I now understand it, this thread was meant for "home/amateur soapers"... specifically for those not selling their soap. But it (unfortunately) got moved to the Business Forum where it is less likely to reach the intended audience. Hoping one of the mods see this so it can go back where it was... Beginner's Forum, I think.

I  believe the question is how much do members budget for soap for personal use.


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## Misschief (Mar 9, 2019)

ooops...


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## midnightsoaper (Mar 10, 2019)

DWinMadison said:


> Do any of you home/amateur soapers calculate or have a target cost/bar?  How much is too much?  What’s reasonable?  Last I calculated, I seem to recall I was running between $1.50 and $1.90, depending on the EOs used.  Is that even in the ballpark?  Note: This figure does not calculate the cost waste, and I seldom totally lose a soap.  As I said in another thread, “worst case I can usually use them myself as kitchen soap, foot scrubber soap, dog soap...something”



I just hit the 3 month mark so I can reply here! 

I do calculate the cost of my recipes (keep an excel file with a materials price list and a sheet for each recipe that calculates the cost).  

My current favorite recipe is at 70 cents per 4.5-4.9 oz bar. This includes generic $32/lb FO and all ingredients/additives that go into the soap except colorant (because I haven't figured out the cost in the measurements I use, like per tsp). I also calculate if I use any disposable items like plastic cups, paper towels or freezer paper, but I rarely use them. I'm using an old supply of gloves I've had forever, but when I have to buy more, I'll have to include those too. I don't figure in any packaging because I don't currently package. 

And I think I've hit my limit in buying in larger quantities (either because I'm not sure I'll use it up within a year or I don't have any place to store it), so the price isn't likely to be reduced any time soon.


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 11, 2019)

midnightsoaper said:


> I just hit the 3 month mark so I can reply here!    ... My current favorite recipe is at 70 cents per 4.5-4.9 oz bar.


 So happy to see you here, Midnight! 70¢ a bar is impressive. Well done! I'm sure you have many tips to share. Keep up the good work!


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## penelopejane (Mar 13, 2019)

Zany_in_CO said:


> So happy to see you here, Midnight! 70¢ a bar is impressive. Well done! I'm sure you have many tips to share. Keep up the good work!


Thread hijack:
Zany I can't reply to your other thread atm. 
I get this message: "You have insufficient privileges to reply here."

Am attempting to have it fixed.  I will get back to you on the other thread as soon as I can.


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## I_like_melts (Mar 15, 2019)

The price sounds about right for a hobbyist. Unless you are buying supplies in bulk, then it gets much cheaper. 

Also, .70 a bar is amazing!


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## cmzaha (Mar 15, 2019)

I do sell but I will say I cannot make a bar for .70 to fit the quality I require of my soaps. I do purchase in bulk and it does help some. Sorry, yep I mentioned selling....


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## amd (Mar 15, 2019)

midnightsoaper said:


> My current favorite recipe is at 70 cents per 4.5-4.9 oz bar. This includes generic $32/lb FO and all ingredients/additives that go into the soap except colorant (because I haven't figured out the cost in the measurements I use, like per tsp).



I'm trying to figure out how this is even possible... at $32/lb the FO is $2 per ounce - assuming that one is using the "usual" 1 oz PPO... My bars weigh 4.3-4.7 oz range, in a 32oz batch I can cut 9 bars and use 2 oz FO... Fragrance alone would be 44 cents per bar. I don't think I could squeak out even a simple bar of soap for the remaining 26 cents, just counting lye, water, and oils. Even if I didn't have to pay shipping costs, I don't think I could pick up oils and lye that cheaply.

Not that I'm trying to call BS, but a calculation of my unscented and uncolored soap mentioned in my previous post at bulk prices is 63 cents. I don't want to give the "home" soapmaker an unrealistic expectation for making a nice scented pretty soap, and have them feel that they are failing simply because someone claimed to be able to do it for 70 cents.


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## I_like_melts (Mar 15, 2019)

amd said:


> I'm trying to figure out how this is even possible... at $32/lb the FO is $2 per ounce - assuming that one is using the "usual" 1 oz PPO... My bars weigh 4.3-4.7 oz range, in a 32oz batch I can cut 9 bars and use 2 oz FO... Fragrance alone would be 44 cents per bar. I don't think I could squeak out even a simple bar of soap for the remaining 26 cents, just counting lye, water, and oils. Even if I didn't have to pay shipping costs, I don't think I could pick up oils and lye that cheaply.
> 
> Not that I'm trying to call BS, but a calculation of my unscented and uncolored soap mentioned in my previous post at bulk prices is 63 cents. I don't want to give the "home" soapmaker an unrealistic expectation for making a nice scented pretty soap, and have them feel that they are failing simply because someone claimed to be able to do it for 70 cents.



I have been able to find FO for under $1 oz from a few different sites. Since I started buying in larger quantities, the price went down a lot.  I was paying about $2.50/oz for my wax melts before then. Still in aw over the .70 though lol


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## amd (Mar 15, 2019)

I_like_melts said:


> I have been able to find FO for under $1 oz from a few different sites. Since I started buying in larger quantities, the price went down a lot.



I've found that too, now that I've started shopping around. Buying larger quantities is great for us that sell, but as a hobby soaper buying larger quantity of FO isn't as appealing.  (Hobby! that's the word that I was looking for in previous post... der...) I couldn't justify the cost of color and FO when I was a hobbyist for the quantity I was making and thus my business was born because I could justify it if I was "making money". Anyways... the point I wanted to make is that as a hobbyist buying smaller quantities of this is probably more practical, and though you might be spending more to make a bar than someone selling it, you're still paying less per bar than if you were to buy it from someone. Unless you're me and need to hoard all the colors and all the FO's.


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## midnightsoaper (Mar 15, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> I do sell but I will say I cannot make a bar for .70 to fit the quality I require of my soaps. I do purchase in bulk and it does help some. Sorry, yep I mentioned selling....



Well, I guess that's _one _way to imply my soap lacks quality lol Don't take that the wrong way, I'm not offended, just amused. This is a thread addressing amateurs and I am an amateur after all. I don't claim that my recipe is the best it will ever be. I have a balanced recipe that my skin is quite happy with 

It helps that I love the combo of tallow/lard and I get them for $0.78/lb. I also buy coconut & olive locally and get a good deal.



amd said:


> I'm trying to figure out how this is even possible... at $32/lb the FO is $2 per ounce - assuming that one is using the "usual" 1 oz PPO... My bars weigh 4.3-4.7 oz range, in a 32oz batch I can cut 9 bars and use 2 oz FO... Fragrance alone would be 44 cents per bar. I don't think I could squeak out even a simple bar of soap for the remaining 26 cents, just counting lye, water, and oils. Even if I didn't have to pay shipping costs, I don't think I could pick up oils and lye that cheaply.
> 
> Not that I'm trying to call BS, but a calculation of my unscented and uncolored soap mentioned in my previous post at bulk prices is 63 cents. I don't want to give the "home" soapmaker an unrealistic expectation for making a nice scented pretty soap, and have them feel that they are failing simply because someone claimed to be able to do it for 70 cents.



I totally understand not wanting to give anyone an unrealistic expectation  Without giving a total breakdown of all my costs, I'll expand a bit. 

I rarely use FO higher than 3% (personal preference), so half oz ppo, $1/1lb batch or 25 cents/bar. At $32/lb, if it doesn't knock my socks off at 3%, it's overpriced when I can buy some for $19/lb that will. Unless I'm head over heels in love lol. I have a $41/lb FO that I LOVE and use at 4%...$1.62/batch or 40 cents/bar. I also have a $19/lb FO that I love and use at 3%...58 cents/batch or 15 cents/bar. It balances out. I don't have to buy certain expensive fragrances because customers demand it, I buy what I love. And I love the expensive ones a lot less lol

I don't include disposable goods because either I'm trying to use up a current free stash (like gloves) or I just don't use them (I use cloth to clean up). I also don't calculate overhead and misc. like a business would (electricity,  dish soap for washing up, cost of doing laundry to wash my cleaning cloths, packaging, a wage, etc). I also don't have to consider label appeal (like adding silk because it looks good).

I just double checked my calculations (and realized I forgot my sodium lactate and sugar!). For lye, oils, distilled water, FO, SL, sugar & citric acid it costs $2.98 for a 1lb batch of my favorite recipe, so that's 75 cents/bar. As I said, I still need to figure in colorants (working my way through a sample pack).

Taking a stab at figuring the cost of mica....Nurture samples are listed as 5g or 2 heaping tsp, average of 1tsp ppo usage rate or 2.5g ppo (a 4 oz bag is 113.4g, $30 for Atomic Orange, and will color 45lbs of oil at 2.5g ppo). That would add 66 cents to a 1lb batch and 17 cents/bar. (And now I can add this calculation to my excel file!)

I have spent money on different additives to experiment with, but they might only make it in one batch, so my price per bar mentioned above is not a full picture of what I spend on the hobby (but that also wasn't the original question). If I like the additive and want to use them in my regular recipe all the time, they will certainly be added to the cost of that recipe. If it's not worth it and I'll never repeat it, I don't consider it part of the cost of future batches. I do expect my costs to go up eventually. I just tried kaolin in a batch and I think I like it....so that will add to it. I tried safflower in place of olive and I liked it, might try sunflower, both of which are higher than olive and will make my cost go up. It's bound to happen. I'm still developing a recipe that I love and trying new things.

And my veggie bars are definitely higher as they have a fair amount of butter & avocado oil. I prefer the feel of my animal based soap though 

I had a business about 10 years ago selling bath & body and soap (soap was more along the lines of laundry soap, not body bars...no colors/designs/etc, I have the mechanics down, but not the art/recipe). I had a big problem controlling costs. I was constantly buying this and that and every new thing to try out. I promised myself when I started this up again a few months ago I would not go down that path. It's a struggle. The cost of this hobby is a big issue for me, so I watch it very closely. This includes budgeting for and buying a large quantity because its the least expensive option in the long run. I know not everyone starting out is going to go buy 100lbs of tallow/lard and stash it away in the deep freeze or buy 32lbs of lye in one go 

(Also, I checked my math several times over. If I made a mistake, I'd love to know, just be gentle lol)


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## cmzaha (Mar 15, 2019)

_ Well, I guess that's one way to imply my soap lacks quality..._
I did not imply that at all I am only stating my preference and I do use tallow and lard. I simply cannot make a bar of soap for $.70. I also purchase quite pricey fragrances most of the time. Taking for example my DB which I have to purchase in 40 lb drums is still very costly. Well over $1 per ounce, and I fragrance at 6-6.5%. It is a waste of money for me to fragrance lighter since I will end up with the soaps in the discard bucket. My oils and Lye are also purchased in bulk.


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## KiwiMoose (Mar 16, 2019)

Initially mine were about $NZ 3.00 ($US2.05) per bar ( bar size varies, but an average of 100g (3.5oz) ).  I factored into that a small cost for 'materials' because I was building my supply of moulds and other tools ( about 15c per bar - US10c).  I still factor that in now to cover gloves, etc.
Initially I used a lot of EOs until I realised that at least 1/3 of the cost of each bar was in EO alone, so I moved to FOs which are cheaper.  I've also honed my recipe to include cheaper oils such as rice bran and soy wax, instead of cocoa butter, babassu etc.  I still include OO at about 20% in every batch.
I am now averaging about $NZ1.90 ($US1.30) - $NZ2.20 ($US1.50) per bar depending on the ingredients ( my latest alcoholic escapades are pushing costs up nearer $NZ2.50 -US1.70). I also overestimate the price of colour and other additives slightly, so if anything my cost per bar is slightly less than what I'm actually working out here.


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## Zany_in_CO (Mar 16, 2019)

TIP for hobbyists and beginner soapers:

You can get everything you need, i.e., "one-stop shopping", at WSP (Wholesale Supplies Plus) Check out the user-friendly drop-down menus near the top of the page here:

*http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/default.aspx*



> By registering for an account you immediately begin to accrue rewards. Depending on how much you purchase you may be eligible for these benefits:
> •   Free UPS Ground shipping on orders over $25
> •   Instant shopping cart discounts
> •   Automatic free coupons every month
> ...



As a hobbyist, and as a Newbie, it took maybe 6 months to reach the $500 reward level. I used WSP for years because they keep track of  purchases over the previous 12 months. Once I reached $1,000 in purchases, the rewards & discounts were substantial.


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## amd (Mar 18, 2019)

@midnightsoaper I really appreciate that you took the time to break down your costs, I think it's a benefit to new makers to see where/how they can save money! It's also great that you pointed out that a "simple" soap with few ingredients works well for you. I think too often experienced soapers forget (yep, me too!) that you can make a nice soap for yourself with a few inexpensive oils. Heck, even my first soap with 33% CO wasn't terrible on my skin (but I did learn that reducing CO was even better for my uber dry skin). If anything, your post made me dearly long for the days when I was a hobbyist and could do what pleased me, rather than selling for the majority. I would love to go back to lightly scented soaps. Sigh, I'll live vicariously through you on that end


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## earlene (Mar 24, 2019)

DWinMadison said:


> Do any of you home/amateur soapers calculate or have a target cost/bar?  How much is too much?  What’s reasonable?  Last I calculated, I seem to recall I was running between $1.50 and $1.90, depending on the EOs used.  Is that even in the ballpark?  Note: This figure does not calculate the cost waste, and I seldom totally lose a soap.  As I said in another thread, “worst case I can usually use them myself as kitchen soap, foot scrubber soap, dog soap...something”




Hobbyist here, as requested:

No, I actually don't calculate cost per bar.  For my own personal use, I believe price is no object as long as I have the money I want to spend on whatever I want.  So for me, anything is reasonable if it is made for me.   Also true for soap for my family; cost is not an issue until I find myself without funds.  Then I'll make needed adjustments.

Of course, I'm not going to buy gold flakes and add it to my soap for personal use, because that would be wasteful.  Although as an aside I have used facial products that have gold in them and liked how it felt, so if I had a formula for that, maybe I would in the right product.


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## melinda48 (Apr 2, 2019)

DWinMadison said:


> Yeah, it the waste that kills me from batches I don't like.  Don't get me wrong, I use virtually everything I make, but I intend most of them for other people as gifts, and I'm not going to give someone something I not proud of.  I've noticed many commercial soapers stick to simple soaps choosing to focus more on ingredients and scents than elaborate colors that introduce more variables and variation in end products, which I totally understand.


I have taken to donating my failures (in my eye only-they are good soaps) to a local charity and they love getting them. This way, I can fail happily knowing that my failures make others happy. This way, I actually have no failures-only happy accidents.


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## Marilyn Norgart (Apr 2, 2019)

I donated some to a local womans shelter.  they even take the end pieces--when I asked about them they said that sometimes the women only stay for a few days and it would be less waste that way.  they were very happy to get them.


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## DWinMadison (Apr 2, 2019)

melinda48 said:


> I have taken to donating my failures (in my eye only-they are good soaps) to a local charity and they love getting them. This way, I can fail happily knowing that my failures make others happy. This way, I actually have no failures-only happy accidents.


Brilliant idea. I’ll check into it. How much do you claim per bar as a tax deduction?...if you don’t mind my asking.


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## artemis (Apr 2, 2019)

DWinMadison said:


> Brilliant idea. I’ll check into it. How much do you claim per bar as a tax deduction?...if you don’t mind my asking.


As hobbyist who sells to a couple of friends, I base my price on what handmade soaps go for in my area.  The easiest way I have found to do this is to search the FaceBook marketplace for handmade soaps. This might help determine what is a reasonable amount to claim.


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## DWinMadison (Apr 2, 2019)

artemis said:


> As hobbyist who sells to a couple of friends, I base my price on what handmade soaps go for in my area.  The easiest way I have found to do this is to search the FaceBook marketplace for handmade soaps. This might help determine what is a reasonable amount to claim.


Again...awesome idea. A true win-win.


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