# CO substitution help, please!  :)



## SoapyQueenBee (Sep 17, 2014)

I've been asked to make some cp bars for a family friend, without coconut oil, and not pure OO.  She's allergic to coconut, and if you even say the word near her, I I swear she gets hives.  I'd love to help her out, but all the oils I've tried in my recipes so far would make for either an unbearably drying bar or an unusable oil slick, at such high %s. ::snort::
Any substitution suggestions would be greatly appreciated!


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## Obsidian (Sep 17, 2014)

have you tried palm kernel oil? It's the perfect CO sub, its makes a cleansing soap with good bubble. I really like 80% lard, 20% palm kernel for a gentle bar.


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## SoapyQueenBee (Sep 17, 2014)

Edit:
I've read many sites that suggest Palm kernel Flakes and Babassu.  Both look to be too expensive for basic use bars, but am willing to try PKF, if I don't have other viable options.


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## SoapyQueenBee (Sep 17, 2014)

You beat me to posting, Obsidian lol.  Thank you, for helping out!


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## cmzaha (Sep 17, 2014)

PKO is usually not expensive. Babassu on the other hand is


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## Obsidian (Sep 17, 2014)

Yeah, my PKO flakes were fairly cheap, I think $11 for 5lbs.


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## SoapyQueenBee (Sep 18, 2014)

That's not bad, at all.  Is there a supplier you guys prefer to use?


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## pamielynn (Sep 18, 2014)

Soaper's Choice has an 8 lb box of flakes for $18.64.


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## shunt2011 (Sep 18, 2014)

I get mine from Soaper's Choice.


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## dixiedragon (Sep 18, 2014)

I always add castor for extra bubbles. If you don't have any, you can get small bottles at Wal-Mart for a decent price. I read that sunflower oil acts with olive oil for more bubbles and that seems to be true for me. So all of my batches are 5% castor and 5% sunflower.


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## Atihcnoc (Sep 18, 2014)

The three cleaning oils are, Coconut, Palm Kernel oil and Babassu...that's all, not other oils has that cleaning benefit. (is what the books about soap say).

Palm Kernel oil is exactly as coconut in bubbles, cleaning etc. with the difference that it is milder in the sensation of cleaning, coconut is more aggressive. 

I like to use lard in all my soaps, and I make pure lard soap without coconut or something else, it is nice and gentile to the skin, I make this to the mother of a friend that is 94 yrs old, she love it, the soap has very little bubbles but it has some and it is very nice. For me it is very similar to the pure OO soap (castille) without the slimy benefit,  I make this once to her and she doesn't like it, she prefer the pure lard soap. 

You can make a test bar with lard, or lard and PKO... try it and if you like it you have another option. Lard makes beautiful soaps!


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## AlicesWonderhands (Dec 5, 2014)

Atihcnoc said:


> The three cleaning oils are, Coconut, Palm Kernel oil and Babassu...that's all, not other oils has that cleaning benefit. (is what the books about soap say).
> 
> Palm Kernel oil is exactly as coconut in bubbles, cleaning etc. with the difference that it is milder in the sensation of cleaning, coconut is more aggressive.
> 
> ...



so, do you think I could make a soap with olive oil and lard? I do not like to get in to too many ingredients and I have a client who is allergic to coconut oil and she has pseriosis in her hair.


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## new12soap (Dec 5, 2014)

I got my PKO from WSP and I love it.

I haven't found that castor oil add to bubbliness, but it does help stabilize the lather. I use it at 5% or more in almost every recipe. Haven't tried it together with sunflower, at least not as a bubbly enhancer. Interesting!

eta: you may also try dissolving some sugar in your water before you add your lye. sugar does increase bubbles, IMO. Use 1 tbsp sugar ppo


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## cmzaha (Dec 5, 2014)

AlicesWonderhands said:


> so, do you think I could make a soap with olive oil and lard? I do not like to get in to too many ingredients and I have a client who is allergic to coconut oil and she has pseriosis in her hair.


As I mentioned in another thread. She needs a dermatologist not a soapmaker to help her. Allergies Can be Life threatening. Let the doctor be responsible


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## AlicesWonderhands (Dec 5, 2014)

she has a doctor thank you. we here in the mountains like to take care of our own too. thank you for your not so helpful help. :crazy:


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## Obsidian (Dec 5, 2014)

You don't have to have a "cleansing" oil in a soap. all soap will clean just at different levels. I understand the caution about making soap for someone with allergies or skin condition but come on people, the OP isn't asking for a cure. A nice gentle soap will be better for this girl then the chemical laden crap she is probably using now.

I've PM'd her genny's shampoo recipe and a nice lard based bath soap. Hope it will help relieve some symptoms, I know what its like to have a skin condition on your scalp, anything that helps is appreciated.
I absolutely would not use a salt bar for severe psoriasis, even if she wasn't allergic to the coconut.


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## cmzaha (Dec 5, 2014)

AlicesWonderhands said:


> she has a doctor thank you. we here
> 
> Your welcome... :thumbdown: that was rude. ^^^Does not matter where you live allergies are or can be very Dangerious. If you do not like the answer sorry... You also did not mention she has a doc in your thread about co.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 5, 2014)

I clearly understand that the OP is not looking for a soap to be a cure for the friend's skin issues, but Carolyn's advice about getting proper medical care does not deserve rebuke. Here's my take on the matter --

The OP says the friend is allergic to coconut oil. If the friend really does break out in hives, that's a pretty serious systemic allergic response. We don't have a clue about the basis for this person's particular allergy to CO, because the OP has not told us. 

One possibility is that the friend could be sensitive to lauric and myristic acids. Both of those fatty acids are also found in PKO and babassu as well as CO. If so, the advice being given here to use PKO or babassu is totally wrong for this person and could result in a serious systemic allergic response.

Without knowing the specifics of this person's allergy, there is no way to offer sensible, safe, correct advice. I'm with Carolyn....


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## Jstar (Dec 6, 2014)

Im with DeeAnna and Carolyn as well..the answers given in the other thread apparently went ignored. There was absolutely no reason to be so rude to Carolyn :thumbdown:


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## Susie (Dec 6, 2014)

Carolyn gave good advice.  You should listen.  I knew that whoever told you that your friend should go see a doctor was not going to be a popular person with you, but that does not make it bad advice.  And posting your question on a separate thread because you don't like the answer you were given is not the best way to get different answers.  You should just wait for others to post on your own thread.  Give folks time to answer.  

If I had been faster responding, I would have been the one to give you the answer to tell your customer to see a doctor.  As would most of us who have the good sense not to give medical advice on a soaping forum.  So all you have accomplished here is to make us all think you won't listen to good advice.


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## JustBeachy (Dec 6, 2014)

Ok Alice, here's my prescription. 

Take 204.627 grams of tallow, rendered from a 3 year old New Zealand hairless rodent.
Add in 3 well aged eye-of-newt
1 cup of dirt, any dirt will do here, we're just trying to create a good looking mud pie. 

Now mix this all together and add in a solution of vinegar and baking soda. We don't want this to actually do anything. It just looks cool when it froths up. 

Cook this mixture at wildly varying temperatures for 6 days. On the seventh day, when it's finished, don't even take the mixture out of the pot. Just find a big, deep hole, and bury the batter, pot and all. It won't do a thing for your friends condition, but that's sorta the point. 

No one in their right mind should be giving medical advice on a forum about making soap. 

Now, I'm not saying you have to agree with Carolyn, or anyone else on here for that matter. Different opinions and open discussion is a great thing, but snide remarks towards someone because you don't like their answer, is about as helpful as the recipe I just gave you. If you don't like the answer or disagree with the advice, it's really easy to just bypass it. Or just a post of , "thanks for all the advice, but I'm going to search for a different solution". 

*Disclaimer* The above recipe is not a cure for any known medical condition. It will, however, help in the disposal of that ugly rusted out old pot you've been trying to get rid of. If while making this concoction you experience: dizziness, headaches, fits of uncontrollable flatulence, unwarranted fear of kittens, the urge to skydive, new appendages growing from your torso,  or any loss of hair, please seek medical help immediately. Or at least before the end of next year.


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## JustBeachy (Dec 6, 2014)

Sorry QueenBee, didn't mean to hijack your post.

My advice is the same as the others. The PKO works really well in the place of CO and it's an inexpensive option. Hope it all works out for you.  But again, DeeAnna has a good point on the allergy thing. Might want to check that out first. She could be allergic to PKO as well.


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## DeeAnna (Dec 6, 2014)

I think I got mixed up on who said what in this thread. But I stand behind what I've said, even if I'm confused about who is who.


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## JustBeachy (Dec 6, 2014)

DeeAnna said:


> I think I got mixed up on who said what in this thread. But I stand behind what I've said, even if I'm confused about who is who.



No you were right, but since the original post was about someone with a allergy to coconut oil, I thought your advice was relevant to her as well as the one who didn't like Carolyn's answer. For that matter, anyone with the allergy questions.


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## Obsidian (Dec 6, 2014)

I guess what bothers me most is I've seen other posts about coconut allergies and while people did recommend a doctor, they also nicely explained that PKO and babassu could also be allergins. Other alternatives were given instead, like trying castile or lard and not using any "cleansing" oils at all.

I don't see where the OP was asking for medical advice, just a alternative to coconut. I should make it clear that I do agree with the severity of allergies and that a doctor needs to be involved when switching to a new product.I just feel people could have been nicer and a bit more helpful.


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## JustBeachy (Dec 6, 2014)

Obsidian, I could be wrong, but I see nothing but helpful posts directed at the original poster.  Pretty much everyone agreed with your advice to her at the beginning of the thread.  Good advice. The responses that I "think" you're referring to weren't directed at QueenBee. 

And to be honest, I didn't see anything "not nice" in Carolyn's post, that wasn't quoting the original poster by the way. The thing that pulled away from the civility and led more into the discussion of the dangers of  giving medical advice, came after the snitty response to Carolyn's realistic response. 

I don't think anyone's rebuttals were directed at QueenBee. I can't speak for everyone, but I know mine weren't, hence the apology for sidetracking on her thread.

It is a very civil environment for a public forum, in my opinion. I've been on some that advocate eating their young.   But the one comment, which had nothing to do with the original poster, was inflammatory.  As such, the rebuttals were bound to happen. 

I agree with you, people should be nice on the forum, but that should also include just bypassing advice you don't agree with. Not taking jabs at the member because you don't agree with their opinions. In my opinion, that's what derailed the thread. I think if you reread it, you'll see what I'm talking about. If not, you have the right to disagree with my agreements on what I disagree with, in regards to disagreements.


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