# General Lye Management Question



## dippy (May 27, 2020)

Today making my first soaps I think I did far too much faffing and walking on eggshells around the lye.  I need to get my head around how dangerous lye actually is as I think I might be overthinking things a little and overestimating the dangers.

Obviously I don't want to get a lye burn but is it only like a burn from a hot oven or is it much more serious than that?

It seems hard to manage the process without getting tiny bits of lye powder dropped somewhere along the line.  Would a tiny speck of lye cause serious issues?  When I was spooning it out it seemed almost static and small specs jumped slightly.

I have bought a far too big tub of lye which I see now is a stupid rookie mistake.  I am going to fill a plastic water bottle with dry lye and just keep that in the house with my soaping stuff and put the big tub in the garage - does that sound sensible

My process today was as follows: measured lye and made up lye outside with mask and goggles on and covered arms.  I didn't even smell it to be honest so I don't know if the mask is overkill if I am outside.  Once the lye was in liquid form and cooled I did the rest of the process inside and it seemed easier to manage it in liquid form.  I washed all the lye containers straight away in our kitchen sink and left all the soapy stuff outside and will clean it tomorrow.  I gave the worktop and scale a quick wipe down with distilled vinegar.

Does all this sound ok and does anyone have a

Sorry it should say does anyone have any advice or suggestions!  Many Thanks


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## shunt2011 (May 27, 2020)

You don't need to be that afraid of the lye.  Just respect it.  Wear gloves.  If you find the lye is static in a container, wipe the top down with a dryer sheet.  If you are going to transfer it into another container I would make sure it's got #5 or #2 in the triangle on the bottle.   When measuring my lye for a batch of soap I use a plastic (disposable) drinking cup and pour out of the bottle.   I keep a damp paper towel under the cup in case a few static beads jump out.    

A lye burn is just that, a burn.  I've never had a serious issue but have had a little spec of lye under my glove once and it wasn't a big deal.  If you get lye or soap batter on your skin just flush well with water.    I rinse it well with water then wash with some dish soap.   I've had one lye burn and that's because my nose itched while soaping and my glove had some raw batter on it when I itched it.   Didn't notice until it started burning.....just flushed it well.


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## dibbles (May 27, 2020)

^^^All of the above. I just want to add that if you do get raw soap batter or a bit of lye solution on your skin, don't use vinegar to wipe it off. Just flush it well with water. You might already know that, but it is a common misconception with new soap makers so I wanted to mention it. Congrats on your first batch!


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## dippy (May 27, 2020)

Thank you both its much appreciated. Great tips I will do as you do shunt and I am sure I will get the hang of it. 

Soaping has been a welcome distraction this week as yesterday we had to say goodbye to our beloved Labrador who was 13 and my son turns the same age tomorrow.  So it's a bit of a emotional rollercoaster. I will keep calm and do some more soaping.


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## atiz (May 27, 2020)

What others have said. Treat it like a pot of boiling water -- carefully but not scared. 
I used to wear mask and long sleeves and gloves but not any more. Always wear my goggles -- lye in the eye doesn't sound much fun. But otherwise, if it gets on the skin a little bit, it is just a slight burn, and rinsing it with cold water solves the issue. (And I rather like to notice if it gets on me, which I can't if my arms are covered. Obviously it's personal preference. Plus I'm just not very good with gloves in general, they make me clumsier.) 
It's only in the first few seconds of the mixing when the lye fumes are bad; just don't breathe above the container. 
Good luck!


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## TheGecko (May 27, 2020)

dippy said:


> Today making my first soaps I think I did far too much faffing and walking on eggshells around the lye.  I need to get my head around how dangerous lye actually is as I think I might be overthinking things a little and overestimating the dangers.



Sodium Hydroxide is no different than any other potentially volatile chemical that needs to be handled with care.  Think chlorine bleach or mixing vinegar and baking soda in a closed container.



> Obviously I don't want to get a lye burn but is it only like a burn from a hot oven or is it much more serious than that?



Burn is a burn is a burn regardless of the cause of the burn is chemical or heat related.



> It seems hard to manage the process without getting tiny bits of lye powder dropped somewhere along the line.  Would a tiny speck of lye cause serious issues?  When I was spooning it out it seemed almost static and small specs jumped slightly.



On the whole, a tiny grain of lye isn't going going to send you to the ER or morgue. I've gotten some on my bare hand and didn't realize it until it reacted with the moisture from my skin and then it was like a tiny sting. On the other hand, I got raw soap batter trapped under my wedding set and 12 hours later, my hand started swelling up. I was lucky and was able to get the rings off myself...took about a week for the burn to fully heal.

I have a several designated containers that I measure my lye into depending on how much I need.  I don't get a lot of bouncing beads because I initially pour slow and low and the containers have high sides.



> I have bought a far too big tub of lye which I see now is a stupid rookie mistake.  I am going to fill a plastic water bottle with dry lye and just keep that in the house with my soaping stuff and put the big tub in the garage - does that sound sensible



Not a mistake as you are saving money buying in bulk, but a bit awkward to handle of you are only mixing small amounts.  Make sure the 'water bottle' has a #2 or #5 on the bottom and that it is airtight.  And make sure you reseal your big tub tightly.



> My process today was as follows: measured lye and made up lye outside with mask and goggles on and covered arms.  I didn't even smell it to be honest so I don't know if the mask is overkill if I am outside.  Once the lye was in liquid form and cooled I did the rest of the process inside and it seemed easier to manage it in liquid form.  I washed all the lye containers straight away in our kitchen sink and left all the soapy stuff outside and will clean it tomorrow.  I gave the worktop and scale a quick wipe down with distilled vinegar.



If you are outside and aren't standing over a cauldron of the stuff, no real reason to wear a mask.  I mix my lye at the sink.  When the weather is nice...the window over the sink is fully open.  If it's winter or the A/C running, I open it a few inches for extra air circulation.  Unless I am using the heat transfer method (where you use the heat of the lye to melt your hard oils), I use thoroughly chilled or frozen distilled water...no fumes, doesn't get above 180 and cools down faster.


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## Megan (May 27, 2020)

TheGecko said:


> Burn is a burn is a burn regardless of the cause of the burn is chemical or heat related.



That really depends on the chemical, the concentration...and the temperature. For instance, I _really_ wouldn't want to get even a minor hydrofluoric acid burn...but minor lye burns aren't usually life threatening. Also, temperature related burns can do more, more quickly than a lye burn. Obviously you want to avoid getting lye on you, but you do have more time to mitigate the damage say if you got some lye on your forearm versus accidentally catching your arm on an oven rack. Flush the chemical well with water, and you may end up with just minor irritation. You have to respect the chemical, and I would say always wear eye protection if you value your sight, and gloves just because soap can be fiddly...



TheGecko said:


> On the whole, a tiny grain of lye isn't going going to send you to the ER or morgue. I've gotten some on my bare hand and didn't realize it until it reacted with the moisture from my skin and then it was like a tiny sting. On the other hand, I got raw soap batter trapped under my wedding set and 12 hours later, my hand started swelling up. I was lucky and was able to get the rings off myself...took about a week for the burn to fully heal.



I've had soap batter under my watch band...man that was the worst.


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## Arimara (May 27, 2020)

Megan said:


> *That really depends on the chemical, the concentration...and the temperature. For instance, I really wouldn't want to get even a minor hydrofluoric acid burn...but minor lye burns aren't usually life threatening. Also, temperature related burns can do more, more quickly than a lye burn. Obviously you want to avoid getting lye on you, but you do have more time to mitigate the damage say if you got some lye on your forearm versus accidentally catching your arm on an oven rack. Flush the chemical well with water, and you may end up with just minor irritation. You have to respect the chemical, and I would say always wear eye protection if you value your sight, and gloves just because soap can be fiddly...*
> 
> 
> 
> I've had soap batter under my watch band...man that was the worst.


That sums up what I wanted to say perfectly. It may seem overly anal to some but I draw hard distinctions between chemical and physical burns- the first aid required for them are not even always similar.


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## SPowers (May 27, 2020)

It took me 8 months to make my first soap because I was so intimidated by the lye.  I've heard this a lot so you are not alone.  I'm working up to my 4th batch and getting more comfortable with it.  As was said above, respect it, be careful and time will take care of it.


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## amd (May 27, 2020)

dippy said:


> I might be overthinking things a little and overestimating the dangers.


You're not, really. It's much better to be aware and be cautious, than to underestimate the dangers and cause harm. I know a lot of people compare the lye safety as low risk as boiling water, but there are dangers in that. One of my sisters spent 6 weeks in the hospital because a pot of boiling water was flipped over onto her. There are precautions you take with lye, just like there are precautions you take with boiling water. Once you know how to handle it, it loses the scare factor.



dippy said:


> is it only like a burn from a hot oven or is it much more serious than that?


Worse. I've been burned a few times (please wear shoes when making soap) thanks to being notoriously clumsy. It depends on where in the process the burn occurs how severe the burn will be. It's a thermal and chemical burn, which can be misleading. I have had burns flare up suddenly hours after making soap. The best thing to do is read the MSDS and learn how to handle the various situations you'll be dealing with the lye.



dippy said:


> When I was spooning it out it seemed almost static and small specs jumped slightly.


I haven't ever had static electricity... but I wonder if spooning it out was the cause? I always pour mine slowly into a separate measuring container.



dippy said:


> I am going to fill a plastic water bottle with dry lye and just keep that in the house with my soaping stuff and put the big tub in the garage - does that sound sensible


Yes. I would make sure to double container the big tub in the garage, maybe adding some dessicant bags to it as well. If your garage may be exposed to a variety of temperatures, it may also be exposed to different humidity levels, which your lye may be able to absorb if not well sealed. Somewhere on the forum, someone shared their 2 bucket storage method - large bucket with smaller lye filled buckets stacked inside, dessicant bags in the large bucket. All buckets had lids. [if I'm remembering this correctly!]


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## Jersey Girl (May 27, 2020)

I would make sure that your bulk lye bucket is air tight If you are storing in a garage that isn’t climate controlled.  If moisture gets to it it will get clumpy.


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## DeeAnna (May 27, 2020)

@kchaystack shared the dry bucket idea here awhile back.* I then did a little article and video about this -- Soapy Stuff: NaOH or KOH purity check

Edit: Can't find KCs original post about this idea, but here's a thread where he mentions it -- Search


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## cmzaha (May 27, 2020)

_*Worse. I've been burned a few times (please wear shoes when making soap) thanks to being notoriously clumsy. *_

I never wear shoes other than flip flops. If I spill I want to kick off that shoe and get my foot under cold water asap. I do not want the lye solution dumping into a pair of shoes. I also do not wear long sleeves for the same reason. While I do not wear goggles I do wear glasses and I can tell you from experience splashes do happen, and my glasses are a testament to that. I have two specks in the finish that are going to cause me to purchase new glasses eventually from lye damage. If I did not have my glasses on it would have been my eye that got the lye speck. What I am notorious for is getting a speck of lye on the side of my cuticle and it seems to burn forever, no matter how much cold water I run over it. Not sure how I manage it but I do that quite often and I always wear gloves.


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## dibbles (May 27, 2020)

Always wear goggles. I also suggest wearing gloves, at least until you get an idea of how messy your soap making processes are. I find I frequently get soap batter somewhere on my hands and I wouldn't ever make soap without gloves.


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## dippy (May 27, 2020)

Yes I would always wear goggles even though i wear glasses as I wouldn't like to take the risk. And I am comfortable in nitrile gloves so think I would continue with those. I can understand both sides of the sleeves/sleeveless debate though so I will see how I get on.

Thanks to the wonderful advice here I have got my head around it. I have put the big tub of lye inside another airtight tub and will look into the sachets. 

The water bottle is a 5 so is suitable for use and I have filled it and made a batch of lye solution up for tomorrow. It was so much easier pouring rather than spooning and I didn't get the static issue. 

The only thing I am unsure of is my scales - I am not sure they are very accurate. They are small digital kitchen scales so should be reasonably ok but when I measured my essential oils it seemed to take a while to actually register any volume and it jumped from 0 - 5g.  I am doing 500g test batches at the moment so because of the scales issue I am superfatting at 7% to give me a little extra leeway- hopefully that will do the trick.


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## DeeAnna (May 27, 2020)

I can tolerate a spatter or so of soap batter on my arms or face, but soap batter under the fingernails is a nasty experience that's tough to avoid without gloves.

And I am not interested in getting lye in my eyes. I got battery acid in my eyes as a kid (me making a typical little-kid mistake), so I know what chemical burns in the eyes are like. Anyone who blows off eye protection has nooooo idea what they're talking about.

Eye protection and gloves are a must for me when working with soap batter and lye solution.

@dippy -- Many kitchen scales are not able to accurately weigh small amounts. You may want to get a jeweler's scale for measuring things like EOs.


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## Jersey Girl (May 27, 2020)

DeeAnna said:


> @kchaystack shared the dry bucket idea here awhile back.* I then did a little article and video about this -- Soapy Stuff: NaOH or KOH purity check
> 
> Edit: Can't find KCs original post about this idea, but here's a thread where he mentions it -- Search



Is this the thread @DeeAnna?





						My lye storage setup
					

I finally remembered to snap some pics of this.  Here ya go.  The containers from the lye guy fit perfect.  If you do the buy 5 get one free from him, one has to sit on top of the desiccant container, but the gamma lis will still close with no issues.




					www.soapmakingforum.com


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## dippy (May 27, 2020)

Wonderful link! Thanks for finding it Jersey Girl. I will get one of those damp rid tubs tomorrow to put in the bigger tub.


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## DeeAnna (May 27, 2020)

Ooh, thank you! Yes, that's the one, @Jersey Girl.


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## jbedaded (May 27, 2020)

I'll put my two cents in here as a retired eye dr.  WEAR GOGGLES.  People think the worst thing they can get in their eye is acid but its actually alkaline.  I've gotten a few minor skin irritations (one on my foot when i spilled fresh soap on my flip flop!) but I will never let lye solution near my eyes.  I wear glasses and I put goggles over them, because as someone previously noted, splashes happen.  My goggles stay on until I've finished washing up the soap dishes.

edited for typo


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## TheGecko (May 27, 2020)

Megan said:


> That really depends on the chemical, the concentration...and the temperature. For instance, I _really_ wouldn't want to get even a minor hydrofluoric acid burn...but minor lye burns aren't usually life threatening. Also, temperature related burns can do more, more quickly than a lye burn. Obviously you want to avoid getting lye on you, but you do have more time to mitigate the damage say if you got some lye on your forearm versus accidentally catching your arm on an oven rack. Flush the chemical well with water, and you may end up with just minor irritation. You have to respect the chemical, and I would say always wear eye protection if you value your sight, and gloves just because soap can be fiddly...



Since the discussion was lye vs oven, I kept it simple


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## Susie (May 28, 2020)

I still use the bucket system with the Damp Rid in the center, even though I live in a much drier climate now.  

I have had the lye mixture on my face, once, I now use goggles.  It was close enough to my eye to get my attention.  I always use gloves.  I pre-measure all the oils, EO/FO, colorants, water, etc, and mix everything that does not involve alkali before putting them on.  But once that NaOH or KOH bottle comes out, gloves are on and stay on until cleanup is complete.  No long sleeves (taking the shirt off because you have soap batter soaking through it is a problem.) And I generally have shoes on only because I generally wear shoes in the house.


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## RacerSpuffy (May 28, 2020)

I weigh my lye into small plastic tubs (like those for cottage cheese, butter, sour cream) and do notice static, if some lye granules escape I just wipe up with a wet paper towel.  I usually mix up my lye water outside with room temperature distilled water and mix 30% concentration, that seems to get the water up to just under the boiling point (I pour in and wisk at the same time, but that likes to cause problems with steam getting into the container I'm pouring from and making some lye stick to the container, so I pour fast to avoid this as much as possible).  Generally I wear gloves doing this, but I've done it without, just be thoughful about the process and you can avoid issues.  

Lye granules aren't really a problem, if your hand is dry you can stick your hand into them and not get burned.  I wouldn't do this, just because there is no reason to, but just saying it to drive the point home that unless it has some water to dissolve into its not going to destroy things.

Biggest tips I have would be to have a clean work space and any walking path you may use needs to be clear of trip hazards.  Have a plan for if you drop something and how to get it contained.  Be careful stick blending, I tend to get a bit more ambitious than I should and end up having little splashes out of the pot I'm making it in


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## Becky1024 (May 28, 2020)

Also be respectful of how you store lye and your lye solution. Make sure the containers are tightly sealed and the containers are out of reach of children. Do not store near any acid.


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## Zing (May 28, 2020)

I have nothing to add here except to say welcome to the addiction and to this forum!  Have you unmolded yet?  We love photos!


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## dippy (May 28, 2020)

Thank you Zing! It is indeed an addiction.  I did 3 more mini batches today.  I posted a pic of my first 2 batches on the 'do I cover goats milk soap' thread.  They don't look anything special I am just thrilled they didn't go wrong.  

I have been lucky that all 5 have gone ok so far and behaved (although I was shocked by the dark brown colour the lye solution turned and how thick it went when I added honey!)  That honey soap is a lovely light toffee colour now and smells ok I just hope it doesn't go too dark.


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## LilianNoir (Jun 1, 2020)

Oh my goodness, you sound like me the first time I made lye solution. 
I had little tiny lye dust specs that seemed to want to go everywhere. I was making my solution outside bc I thought it might be safer, but because I live in Florida, the air was humid it was reacting with the lye as I was pouring it. >.<
It definitely resulted in a lot of anxiety and overthinking. In my case, having some chemistry knowledge was making it a little worse.
Like you, I came here to see what other's experiences were. You're in good hands here.

Over the past year, I've come to realize what I think you're already suspecting and what others have said.
Yes, it does carry a danger. Yes, you do have to be careful.
No, a tiny spec or bit of dry lye is not going to cause horrible irreparable damage. 

One of the things that I worried about the most was those little bits. My bottle had quite a bit of superfine particles and it was initially static-y and we don't use dryer sheets. I worried that I'd miss one while cleaning or etc etc.
But I learned something that helped me feel a bit at ease regarding those.
Because lye is SO hydrophilic (water loving), it will pull moisture out of the air, react with that AND with the carbon dioxide to form washing soda which is still caustic but much less so. A full flake or bead of lye will take some time to do that, but a tiny dust like speck would be faster.
I also have a plastic sheet or freezer paper under the area where I'm weighing lye, rinse my mixing spoon and the cup that held the dry lye VERY well, and then set it aside in dishpan to wash with soap later, and wipe down my work area afterward with vinegar.

I also wear sneakers when I soap, partially because I have foot problems that result in a lot of pain if I'm barefoot on hard floors for more than a few minutes, but also because I don't want to take chances.

Now I'm far less intimidated by lye(although very much respectful of it) and instead have focused my anxious energies on making the soap itself. 

Be careful, methodical, and mindful, and keep learning as you are, and you'll be ok!


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## dippy (Jun 1, 2020)

Thank you Lilian, that was a lovely post.  It's good to know I am not the only one who felt like this.  

I am pleased to say that I have already done 12 mini batches and have got a good routine going.  Of those 12 batches I already know I have gone wrong with at least 6 of them even though they haven't cured yet! I understand more about fatty acid profiles now than when I started.  Lockdown has meant I have had the time to get stuck in and experiment a bit which is good as the learning curve is steep.


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## LilianNoir (Jun 1, 2020)

12 mini batches since Wednesday??? Wow. 
It took me a year to do 6 full batches. LOL. 
When you say mini, what do you mean?

The learning curve certainly is steep, but sounds like you've got a good handle on it already!


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## dippy (Jun 1, 2020)

I know, its a bit of an obsession at the moment.  

I am self employed and my work completely dried up during lockdown so it is keeping me distracted!  Each batch is 400g so big enough to try a bar at various cure times but small enough that I don't get over run with soap (although it seems I am already overrun with soap!?!)

I wonder if I should do even smaller batches than this as I think getting the right recipe will take some time.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 1, 2020)

Don't stick your hand in dry lye. 

Just. Don't. Go. There. 

Even as a joke or lighthearted comment.

Strong alkali will quickly pull water from the tissues of your skin, even if your skin is reasonably dry to start with. That's one of the reasons why an alkali burn can penetrate deeper into the skin than you'd think it could  -- it "eats" its way through the skin layers until it is sufficiently diluted or chemically reacted, or it is removed from the skin.

Please don't make this suggestion again! If this idea gets any tiny degree of plausibility, some gullible person somewhere is going to try it and pay the price.


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