# Shampoo Bars, questions before making



## Zing (Dec 13, 2019)

Dear crafty people, Can I please hear from experienced shampoo bar makers?  I make cold process soap and am now getting requests for shampoo bars.  I've got a lotta totally noob questions!  How do you use them?  If you've made cold process soap, how does it compare to making them?  In the shower, do you store it in a container or a soap dish?  Do you make individual molds or one large one and then cut them?  Is there a cure time, etc.  OR just give me a link to a real good URL or YouTube or a post on here.  I'd appreciate it!  

I'm open to making them but likely won't use them -- my hairstyle is what I like to call "low maintenance" which is better than saying the b--- word.  Thanks and enjoy your weekend,


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## Cellador (Dec 13, 2019)

It depends on how you define "shampoo bar." 
A lot of soap makers like to make a soap that's formulated to be "good for hair." Unfortunately, a lot of the science on this matter indicates that no soap is good for hair due to it's high pH.
On the other hand, you have other shampoo bars which are formulated with Syndets (synthetic detergents), and if made correctly, they are safe and beneficial to your hair.
So, I guess my question is which type are you interested in making or getting requests for?


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## Zany_in_CO (Dec 13, 2019)

You make CP Shampoo Bars the same way you make CP. The really important difference is you must rinse with increasingly cool water until it is as cold as you can stand it (think "Viking") to *get all the soap scum out and close the hair shaft*. Follow with an ACV (apple cider vinegar) rinse to restore the acid mantle of the scalp. There is also an adjustment period for your hair to get used to bar soap vs. syndet shampoo and other hair products. This isn't true for everyone, but it took a year for me to get used to it.

As far as lathering up is concerned, you can either rub the bar all around your head or lather up and use your hands to work the soap into the hair.

Here's my favorite recipe for a CP bar with an elegant feel that sold well for my wholesale customer for years.  Seniors especially loved it. It left DH's white hair shiny white with no yellow tone:

62.5% palm or lard
23% olive oil (I use pomace)
14.5% PKO (Palm Kernel Oil)
1/2 Tablespoon White Kaolin Clay (optional) PPO

Equal parts lavender, rosemary and tea tree essential oil blend is good for hair, but any great smelling FO would probably sell better.

Read more about the benefits of Shampoo Bars on the Chagrin Valley Site. Links:

_*Why Use A Natural Shampoo Bar?
Everything About Shampoo Bar*_

PS: This subject has been discussed many times. You can use the search box top-right of the page to read more. 



Cellador said:


> It depends on how you define "shampoo bar."
> A lot of soap makers like to make a soap that's formulated to be "good for hair." Unfortunately, a lot of the science on this matter indicates that no soap is good for hair due to it's high pH.
> On the other hand, you have other shampoo bars which are formulated with Syndets (synthetic detergents), and if made correctly, they are safe and beneficial to your hair.
> So, I guess my question is which type are you interested in making or getting requests for?


 Well said.


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## cmzaha (Dec 14, 2019)

I am on the side of not using soap as shampoo and would absolutely not consider selling soap as shampoo. If you want to risk damage to your own hair it is up to you. As a retired long-time cosmetologist I do not agree with the use of soap, the ph is just too high and the risk of damage to possible especially to long hair which is seldom cut.

Chas Dean with Wen products tried that route with all-natural shampoo and was sued big time. He ended up settling and never claimed negligence. His original liquid shampoo was a lye-based shampoo and the records of such shampoo have also disappeared, I just remember reading the ingredient list when it first appeared on the market and mentioning it to my husband. I remember commenting it was a bad shampoo.


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## AmandaLRF (Dec 14, 2019)

On YouTube Royalty Soaps does a video on making shampoo bars and lists the resources she used in creating her recipes.


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## shunt2011 (Dec 14, 2019)

I’m another who does not recommend CP soap for hair. I tried it several years ago and it totally ruined my hair. It went from shoulder length to darn near a pixie.  Now, my ex-husband has and still does use it but he’s a one and done kind of guy and doesn’t have a lot of hair to begin with. I’ve been playing with syndet shampoo bars and will consider selling those but I’m still in the beginning phase of formulating etc.  

Some will tell you CP is awesome for them but it’s a risk in my opinion.  If you sell make  sure you have insurance.


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## Zing (Dec 14, 2019)

Thanks, all, very helpful comments.  Before I posted I did a search here and got overwhelmed with various acronyms, unfamiliar chemicals, debates about everything, etc.  I'm not nor never will be a seller -- friends and me are looking for ways to reduce using plastic containers.  Enjoy your weekend everyone!


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## Zany_in_CO (Dec 14, 2019)

Zing said:


> Before I posted I did a search here and got overwhelmed with various acronyms, unfamiliar chemicals, debates about everything, etc.  I'm not nor never will be a seller -- friends and me are looking for ways to reduce using plastic containers.


My thoughts exactly. I didn't learn to make all-natural bath & body products to use chemicals  on my hair & body. Using less plastic is an added benefit!  My thoughts on the use of CP soap as shampoo are best expressed in this thread, post #6

_*https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/shampoo-bars.68585/#post-679463*_

If you want help or feedback in designing a CP shampoo bar, there is a forum for that

RECIPE FEEDBACK


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## Jennifer Horne (Dec 14, 2019)

AmandaLRF said:


> On YouTube Royalty Soaps does a video on making shampoo bars and lists the resources she used in creating her recipes.


If i am not mistaken Katie bought that recipe  and does not share it (or maybe thats the bathbomb video?)


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## KiwiMoose (Dec 14, 2019)

Zing said:


> Thanks, all, very helpful comments.  Before I posted I did a search here and got overwhelmed with various acronyms, unfamiliar chemicals, debates about everything, etc.  I'm not nor never will be a seller -- friends and me are looking for ways to reduce using plastic containers.  Enjoy your weekend everyone!


Hi Zing - I recently made my first batch of syndet shampoo bars and have been trialling them on my hair (and a couple of friend volunteers).  Today I intend to make another batch with a few 'tweaks' that I think will improve it.  I'm more than happy to share my recipe with you, with reasons why I use, or exclude, various ingredients.  I'm still very new to this, so if you would like to use my recipe you will also be 'testing' it as I don't make any claims as to its efficacy.  
In NZ we have a serious push towards not using plastics, so shampoo bars are all the go at the moment.  Initially I had a hard time reconciling my goals of 'natural' and 'palm free' soap when embarking on the syndet shampoo bar journey.  I've had to break all my own 'rules', except the one of reducing plastics - which seems to be everyone's most important goal right now.


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## paradisi (Dec 14, 2019)

Zany_in_CO said:


> My thoughts exactly. I didn't learn to make all-natural bath & body products to use chemicals  on my hair & body. Using less plastic is an added benefit!  My thoughts on the use of CP soap as shampoo are best expressed in this thread, post #6
> 
> _*https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/shampoo-bars.68585/#post-679463*_


Soap has chemicals too, you know. And lye isn't all natural.  It's disappointing to see people disparaging others' products on such an unscientific basis. 

Loads of us make and use both soap and syndets, there ought to be room for both here.   And the chase of whose product is more righteously packaged seems equally unedifying. Prefer soap? Fine. Prefer syndets? Fine too.


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## KiwiMoose (Dec 14, 2019)

Zing - just made:


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## dibbles (Dec 14, 2019)

@KiwiMoose those look nice. Did you use the same recipe or do a tweak on the first one you made? What do you think so far?


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## KiwiMoose (Dec 14, 2019)

dibbles said:


> @KiwiMoose those look nice. Did you use the same recipe or do a tweak on the first one you made? What do you think so far?


Hi Dibbles,
I'm using the first recipe now in my shower - and it seems absolutely fine, with my two testers thinking the same.  No irritation and we're happy with the way our hair feels.  But how longs do you test before it's safe to send further afield?  What if my hair falls out in 6 months?  
For this second recipe I made today I have added - vegetable silicone, DLS and Capryl Glucoside and changed the ratio of some of the other ingredients.


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## dibbles (Dec 14, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> Hi Dibbles,
> I'm using the first recipe now in my shower - and it seems absolutely fine, with my two testers thinking the same.  No irritation and we're happy with the way our hair feels.  But how longs do you test before it's safe to send further afield?  What if my hair falls out in 6 months?
> For this second recipe I made today I have added - vegetable silicone, DLS and Capryl Glucoside and changed the ratio of some of the other ingredients.


These syndet bars interest me, but I think I just might have to buy one. I don't know how long you test something like this before you know it's good to go.


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## KiwiMoose (Dec 14, 2019)

dibbles said:


> These syndet bars interest me, but I think I just might have to buy one. I don't know how long you test something like this before you know it's good to go.


I guess on the plus side - it's no worse than the ingredients in my current commercial shampoo - in fact it's likely better because I've not included some the sulphates and other 'questionable' ingredients.


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## earlene (Dec 15, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> Hi Dibbles,
> I'm using the first recipe now in my shower - and it seems absolutely fine, with my two testers thinking the same.  No irritation and we're happy with the way our hair feels.  But how longs do you test before it's safe to send further afield?  What if my hair falls out in 6 months?
> For this second recipe I made today I have added - vegetable silicone, DLS and Capryl Glucoside and changed the ratio of some of the other ingredients.




I'd take into account how some members here have described their own experience with shampoo bars on their hair and the result they have had and factor in the amount of time it took them to determine they either had to cut off their hair or whatever, and test for at least that long.  I don't specifically remember without going back and re-reading some of those threads.  In some cases, I recall several months, in some sooner, maybe in some longer, I am not sure.  But that's what I would do when trying to determine if it's been tested long enough.


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## atiz (Dec 15, 2019)

I would wait a few months as well. I'm not a formulator, but have made (and been using) some shampoo recipes of others whom I trust and those have been working well for me. If I did formulate, I would make sure to pH test my bars and adjust the pH if necessary -- that seems to be important for hair. I would also use it at least for a year before trying to sell any.


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## Gaisy59 (Dec 15, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> Hi Zing - I recently made my first batch of syndet shampoo bars and have been trialling them on my hair (and a couple of friend volunteers).  Today I intend to make another batch with a few 'tweaks' that I think will improve it.  I'm more than happy to share my recipe with you, with reasons why I use, or exclude, various ingredients.  I'm still very new to this, so if you would like to use my recipe you will also be 'testing' it as I don't make any claims as to its efficacy.
> In NZ we have a serious push towards not using plastics, so shampoo bars are all the go at the moment.  Initially I had a hard time reconciling my goals of 'natural' and 'palm free' soap when embarking on the syndet shampoo bar journey.  I've had to break all my own 'rules', except the one of reducing plastics - which seems to be everyone's most important goal right now.



Hi KiwiMoose I would definitely be interested in your recipe. My supplies haven’t arrived yet so I haven’t tried my recipe. I’m glad you didn’t use sulphate but I see you took the step to a silicone. Thanks for keeping us posted.


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## Zing (Dec 15, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> Hi Zing - I recently made my first batch of syndet shampoo bars and have been trialling them on my hair (and a couple of friend volunteers).  Today I intend to make another batch with a few 'tweaks' that I think will improve it.  I'm more than happy to share my recipe with you, with reasons why I use, or exclude, various ingredients.  I'm still very new to this, so if you would like to use my recipe you will also be 'testing' it as I don't make any claims as to its efficacy.
> In NZ we have a serious push towards not using plastics, so shampoo bars are all the go at the moment.  Initially I had a hard time reconciling my goals of 'natural' and 'palm free' soap when embarking on the syndet shampoo bar journey.  I've had to break all my own 'rules', except the one of reducing plastics - which seems to be everyone's most important goal right now.


Yes, please, I'd love your recipe and rationales.  You are my soaping idol, @KiwiMoose !


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## DeeAnna (Dec 15, 2019)

_"...I see you took the step to a silicone..."
_
Kiwi mentioned she is using "vegetable silicone". I'm not sure I'd assume she means the usual silicones that everyone loves to hate. 

If she is using hemisqualane (I don't know that she is -- just guessing), this ingredient is very definitely not a silicone. It's made from sugarcane and it is used as an _alternative _to some types of silicones. 

In haircare products, hemisqualane reduces combing friction, adds shine, and reduces frizz. It's on the expensive side, but it's very nice.


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## Gaisy59 (Dec 15, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> _"...I see you took the step to a silicone..."
> _
> Kiwi mentioned she is using "vegetable silicone". I'm not sure I'd assume she means the usual silicones that everyone loves to hate.
> 
> ...



well that sounds very interesting. I would like that idea!

Also, I am one of the shampooers that bought a syndet bar to try and I love it. It has been over two months now and my hair feels great and no scalp issues so far (not superstitious but “touch wood” lol).


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## Kcryss (Dec 15, 2019)

Gaisy59, what are the ingredients on the syndet bar you purchased or what is the brand?


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## KiwiMoose (Dec 15, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> _"...I see you took the step to a silicone..."
> _
> Kiwi mentioned she is using "vegetable silicone". I'm not sure I'd assume she means the usual silicones that everyone loves to hate.
> 
> ...


Here is the description:

*INCI: *Hydrogenated Ethylhexyl Olivate (and) Hydrogenated Olive Oil Unsaponifiables

This highly stable transparent liquid emollient is of olive origin, with great affinity for the skin. It can be used as a vegetable alternative to silicones (Cyclomethicone D5, Dimethicone DC 200, etc) and has a stable viscosity at any temperature (like Cyclomethicone D5). It also exhibits both stable colour and odour at high temperature (100º C) as well as stable peroxide value at high temperature (100º C), just like silicones.  It is compatible with most oily ingredients, even those with different polarities, unlike silicones.


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## KiwiMoose (Dec 15, 2019)

Week Two of testing and one of my testers has reported back that the first recipe is too drying for her hair.  I've been ok with it and so has my other tester, but had always thought it could do with improvement.
I used my new bar today ( the one with the silicone^ and a few other tweaks), and I can say for sure that it feels a lot nicer and less drying.  So I'll get a bar to the other testers today to see what they think.
I daresay I would have more success if I used cocamidopropyl betaine in my recipe - but that's my little bandwagon to formulate a recipe without it.


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## Kcryss (Dec 15, 2019)

KiwiMoose, are you able to get Coco Betaine in NZ? On thethingswellmake there is a recipe for a shampoo bar that contains Coco Betaine, but I can't seem to get it here in the US.


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## KiwiMoose (Dec 15, 2019)

Chris Veer said:


> KiwiMoose, are you able to get Coco Betaine in NZ? On thethingswellmake there is a recipe for a shampoo bar that contains Coco Betaine, but I can't seem to get it here in the US.


Yes it is readily available - if you mean cocamidopropyl betaine - or is coco something different?

ETA - oops they are different: https://realizebeauty.wordpress.com...camidopropyl-betaine-are-different-chemicals/


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## Kcryss (Dec 15, 2019)

Yeah, they are very different. We can get all the cocamidopropyl betaine we want here and can find things labeled as Coco Betaine, but it's really just cocamidopropyl betaine.


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## Gaisy59 (Dec 15, 2019)

Chris Veer said:


> Gaisy59, what are the ingredients on the syndet bar you purchased or what is the brand?



The bar is from Unwrapped Life from here in Alberta I believe.


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## Kcryss (Dec 15, 2019)

Wow, very interesting! Thanks for posting!


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## KiwiMoose (Dec 15, 2019)

@Gaisy59 - it looks like the only surfactant in that shampoo bar is sodium coco sulfate.  Here is an article about that - but bear in mind that it's written in favour of more natural ingredients, so they might be a bit scathing: https://www.hebebotanicals.co.nz/sodium-coco-sulfate-another-synthetic-detergent/
Even so - I would have thought a single surfactant is not ideal.  It's usually recommended to use more than one to increase mildness.


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## KiwiMoose (Dec 15, 2019)

And here's a counter-argument from Lush: https://nz.lush.com/article/dont-stress-about-sls

This I find useful as an overview of ingredients: https://www.humblebeeandme.com/surf...12Ite0tcpP9hgt_OxBtBsL38QgijiYGs5byKVKExiEGL8


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## Mobjack Bay (Dec 15, 2019)

I like the idea of a homemade syndet shampoo bar, but it seems past my capabilities for now.  @KiwiMoose I look forward to reading about how your testing and development go and learning from you.


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## Dahila (Dec 15, 2019)

KM have you check the ph of shampoo?  I wash my hair twice a week so after a month I know if it is good or not for my hair,  My sweet granddaughter is also testing them and she likes it,  Hubby likes it but you know men they like everything


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## Deb Walker (Dec 15, 2019)

Zany_in_CO said:


> I didn't learn to make all-natural bath & body products to use chemicals on my hair & body. Using less plastic is an added benefit!





paradisi said:


> Soap has chemicals too, you know. And lye isn't all natural.



A person saying they don't want chemicals is just the short version of saying, they don't want chemicals that are associated with or shown to be carcinogenic, neurotoxic, immune suppressant etc.  
I am unaware of lye fitting into the toxic category when used for soap.  

Many people are suffering chronic health issues and are just trying their best to reduce the toxic chemical load to improve their health, so its OK for someone to say they don't want the chemicals.   And its OK for people wanting to improve the wrappers for the health of the planet.  

I'm interested in hearing what others do, even if I don't do it. I have never seen anyone have a problem washing their hair with soap (long and uncut) but I am interested in _hairing_ )) about those who have had problems.

Its all good.


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## Gaisy59 (Dec 16, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> @Gaisy59 - it looks like the only surfactant in that shampoo bar is sodium coco sulfate.  Here is an article about that - but bear in mind that it's written in favour of more natural ingredients, so they might be a bit scathing: https://www.hebebotanicals.co.nz/sodium-coco-sulfate-another-synthetic-detergent/
> Even so - I would have thought a single surfactant is not ideal.  It's usually recommended to use more than one to increase mildness.



Hiya KiwiMoose, yes I saw the ingredients and I questioned whether or not they included all ingredients or if that was actually all they put into their bars. But my main reason for buying this bar was to see if I actually liked a shampoo bar and I sure do! So I set out to formulate my own which I did with help from the forum and am now waiting for my supplies. But I do like the direction your formulation is going.

Also, your friend that thought it was drying for her hair...I am wondering if she has curly hair which requires more moisture.


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## Quilter99755 (Dec 16, 2019)

I am one of those people who uses my soap for shampoo. I have very short curly hair and have had no problems with it. But this thread has got me thinking a bit differently about the syndet bars.  I guess my first step will have to be buying one to test it out. I do know that I cannot deal with sulfates, which is why I started using my own bar soap in the first place. I have read several of the sites that you have linked, but chemistry was not my best subject in school...my eyes sort of glaze over and it becomes a clear senior moment.  I'd love to have a tried recipe, especially from people I converse with rather than some website that I don't know.  So yes, if you could pass the recipe Kiwi Moose, it would get me started down another path....and I would sure appreciate it.


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## KiwiMoose (Dec 16, 2019)

Gaisy59 said:


> Hiya KiwiMoose, yes I saw the ingredients and I questioned whether or not they included all ingredients or if that was actually all they put into their bars. But my main reason for buying this bar was to see if I actually liked a shampoo bar and I sure do! So I set out to formulate my own which I did with help from the forum and am now waiting for my supplies. But I do like the direction your formulation is going.
> 
> Also, your friend that thought it was drying for her hair...I am wondering if she has curly hair which requires more moisture.


Yes she does have curly hair!  And my other friend who is also testing it doesn't.  I asked her ( the second one) how her shampoo bar was going in light of the first tester's info.  She said hers was fine and she's had no problems.  So maybe that's it?
Now I'm wondering what to to include to make it better for her... more shea?  A 'specialty' oil of some kind?


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## KiwiMoose (Dec 16, 2019)

Quilter99755 said:


> I am one of those people who uses my soap for shampoo. I have very short curly hair and have had no problems with it. But this thread has got me thinking a bit differently about the syndet bars.  I guess my first step will have to be buying one to test it out. I do know that I cannot deal with sulfates, which is why I started using my own bar soap in the first place. I have read several of the sites that you have linked, but chemistry was not my best subject in school...my eyes sort of glaze over and it becomes a clear senior moment.  I'd love to have a tried recipe, especially from people I converse with rather than some website that I don't know.  So yes, if you could pass the recipe Kiwi Moose, it would get me started down another path....and I would sure appreciate it.


Hi Quilter - I've just started a new link under recipes: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/syndet-shampoo-bar-trials.77482/


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## AmandaLRF (Dec 16, 2019)

Jennifer Horne said:


> If i am not mistaken Katie bought that recipe  and does not share it (or maybe thats the bathbomb video?)


She did, but she shared where you can get the recipe. While I haven’t bought the books, yet, I saw a preview of them and they really go into the science of making shampoo bars and conditioner bars and has several recipes. Shampoo bars will be my project for next year and I plan to buy the books then.


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## KiwiMoose (Dec 16, 2019)

AmandaLRF said:


> She did, but she shared where you can get the recipe. While I haven’t bought the books, yet, I saw a preview of them and they really go into the science of making shampoo bars and conditioner bars and has several recipes. Shampoo bars will be my project for next year and I plan to buy the books then.


Sounds like I need these books - can you please let me know name and author? Cheers.


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## Carolyne Thrasher (Dec 16, 2019)

I’ve been working on syndet bars for about 5 months now. I broke down and bought an ebook from Etsy because I wasn’t confident I could piece together the info I needed that was our there for free. I can’t find it now so I’m not sure she’s still selling it. I also, just today, bought Switch Craft Monkeys ezine. No such thing as too much research if you’re selling a product. I’d hate to destroy someone’s hair.


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## Misschief (Dec 16, 2019)

I purchased a recipe this past February (from DIY Bath and Body on Etsy) and have been making and using it and the conditioner since. Both my husband and I love it, as do my customers who've purchased it. (I have one young woman who buys 6 at a time, 3 for herself and 3 for her mom, along with conditioner bars.) My hair is now down to my shoulders and is usually dry, especially at the ends. It feels soft and silky and so touchable right down to the ends. My profile pic was taken early this past summer, after I'd been using the bars for a few months. I doubt we'll ever go back to liquid shampoo.


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## KiwiMoose (Dec 16, 2019)

Misschief said:


> I purchased a recipe this past February (from DIY Bath and Body on Etsy) and have been making and using it and the conditioner since. Both my husband and I love it, as do my customers who've purchased it. (I have one young woman who buys 6 at a time, 3 for herself and 3 for her mom, along with conditioner bars.) My hair is now down to my shoulders and is usually dry, especially at the ends. It feels soft and silky and so touchable right down to the ends. My profile pic was taken early this past summer, after I'd been using the bars for a few months. I doubt we'll ever go back to liquid shampoo.


Is yours pourable Misschief?


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## justjacqui (Dec 16, 2019)

I came across these three starting formulas for different kinds of shampoo bars today. They all use Colonial Chemical surfactants but are interesting as a look at the different types of bars you can formulate.

http://www.colonialchem.com/fullpan...ade-style-shampoo-bar--scs--colalipid-gs-.pdf
http://www.colonialchem.com/fullpan...hampoo-bar--hot-pour---scs--cm-200--00001.pdf
http://www.colonialchem.com/fullpan...free-shampoo-bar--hot-pour---eq-154--3go-.pdf

I have not tried any of these but they look interesting.


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## Dahila (Dec 17, 2019)

justjacqui said:


> I came across these three starting formulas for different kinds of shampoo bars today. They all use Colonial Chemical surfactants but are interesting as a look at the different types of bars you can formulate.
> 
> http://www.colonialchem.com/fullpan...ade-style-shampoo-bar--scs--colalipid-gs-.pdf
> http://www.colonialchem.com/fullpan...hampoo-bar--hot-pour---scs--cm-200--00001.pdf
> ...


They all are going to be soft and the first one with 65% of SCS is going to be like 10 ph,


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## Misschief (Dec 17, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> Is yours pourable Misschief?


It is for a short while but they need to cool to below 120ºF to add the preservative. By that time, they're a little difficult to pour. I usually use a 3 part mold, as I do for the conditioner bars.


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## Gaisy59 (Dec 17, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> Yes she does have curly hair!  And my other friend who is also testing it doesn't.  I asked her ( the second one) how her shampoo bar was going in light of the first tester's info.  She said hers was fine and she's had no problems.  So maybe that's it?
> Now I'm wondering what to to include to make it better for her... more shea?  A 'specialty' oil of some kind?



I have no idea how to help with your formula lol. I am chemistry impaired. I bought Swift Craft Monkey’s ezine and formulated my recipe from there. But I really like what you are trying to do with your ingredients.


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## Carla Burke (Dec 17, 2019)

Deb Walker said:


> A person saying they don't want chemicals is just the short version of saying, they don't want chemicals that are associated with or shown to be carcinogenic, neurotoxic, immune suppressant etc.
> I am unaware of lye fitting into the toxic category when used for soap.
> 
> Many people are suffering chronic health issues and are just trying their best to reduce the toxic chemical load to improve their health, so its OK for someone to say they don't want the chemicals.   And its OK for people wanting to improve the wrappers for the health of the planet.
> ...



This! In spades! Lye is even used in some food prep, that has been done, for millennia - think hominy. I am one of those with chronic health issues, for whom synthetic chemicals set off tons of bad things. From severe allergic dermatitis to asthma attacks, and triggering my fibromyalgia and lupus into high gear. Like Zany, I've learned what I have, and continue to educate myself about more, so that I can make the products I need from ingredients I can trust not to negatively affect my health. For me, that means no fragrance oils, no detergents, no petroleum based products, etc.


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## Jennifer Horne (Dec 18, 2019)

AmandaLRF said:


> She did, but she shared where you can get the recipe. While I haven’t bought the books, yet, I saw a preview of them and they really go into the science of making shampoo bars and conditioner bars and has several recipes. Shampoo bars will be my project for next year and I plan to buy the books then.


I found a lush similar shampoo bar recipe on pinterest


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## KiwiMoose (Dec 30, 2019)

Jennifer Horne said:


> I found a lush similar shampoo bar recipe on pinterest


Swift Crafty Monkey tested one of the Lush bars and found it had a pH of more than 9!  Might as well use lye-based soap, lol!


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## AmandaLRF (Dec 31, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> Sounds like I need these books - can you please let me know name and author? Cheers.


Here is a screenshot with the information.


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