# This just in...



## IanT (Jan 31, 2010)

Remember when we were talking about usage of the term "organic" in our products... 

beware


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## Sunny (Jan 31, 2010)

wooo hoooo!

aww - but I kinda like Kiss My Face


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## carillon (Jan 31, 2010)

People who bought those products ought to feel like suckers and even start their own class action lawsuit.

The term "certified" organic is nothing but another money maker for an organization that will hold all the rights to approving that distinction.


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## dagmar88 (Feb 1, 2010)

I don't know what's it like where you live, but certified organic is really 100% organic over here.
We have an organic police, that is able to inspect all companies; from the ones that produce the raw product, to the semifinished product to end product.
They take leaves, fruits etc from the farm on a regular base to be assessed lab and to see what exactly is in there.
When the organic police finds out farmers are not playing by their rules sanctions ranging from heavy fines to banishments follow.

To become certified organic business owners need to follow very strict rules:
-_The_ use of genetically modified organisms is prohibited.
-_The_ soil has to be enhanced by seeding or planting plants that impove the soil in between crops in avarying scheme.
Fertilization is done either with organic green manures or (composted) organic livestock manure.
-_Inconvenience_ by parasites, illness and weeds has to be prevented by rotation of crops, variety of choice, protection of and introducing natural enemies.
Only when the business faces an immediate thread to production a limited range of plant treatment products may be used.
-_propagating_ material and seeds need to be of organic origin. When this is not possible (not enough diversity in organic crops) the business has to ask for dispensation for seeds; no dispensation possible for plants.
After the organic cultivation practice of the propagating material it can not be sprayed with disinfectants.
-_Two_ of the same (kinds of) crops can not be grown organic and regular by the same farmer. The same goes for storage.
-_Only _crops that are not suitable for planting in the soil can be grown independantly; like mushrooms or plants that are sold with soil like potted plants.
-_Before_ a farmer can call his/her products certiefied organic the business has to follow all the rules for 2 to 3 years. After that period the business is allowed to use the certified organic quality mark.

There are also strict rules on stock farming with regards to animal wellfare, production of edibles with regards to registration and labeling requirements, import and trade; but I think you get the idea by now...

Want to learn more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_certification

I am getting sick and tired of both companies trying to lift on the current success of organic products and people that are still saying *certified* organic products ar BS.

Cause the truth is, organic products are not the latest marketing hype. Certified organic farmers are doing what has been done for thousands of years. I think we strayed way to far from nature by introducing fish genes into strawberries and keeping large amounts of animals so close to eachother. 
It is all about taking better care of the earth and IMO that is needed pretty badly...


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## carillon (Feb 1, 2010)

No, "organic" is current marketing hype in the b&b industry--that's why the lawsuit is taking place that Ian referenced.

I'm not saying producing organic products is BS, what is BS is the fact that industries are trying to cash in on"certifying" it.  

Organic products are more expensive than non-organic products, and reasonably so, but when people want to complain about starving children having no food, I don't think the organic way of doing things can produce the volume of crops needed to supply the world.


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## IanT (Feb 1, 2010)

exactly!


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## dagmar88 (Feb 1, 2010)

I think everyone truly interested in this subject knows that without a certificaton/the qualtity mark of your country the term organic is as meaningless as 'natural'.
Over here an independed foundation gives off the quality mark; our ministry of agriculture, nature and food quality is who inspects the foundation.
They are very clear about the prices they ask for each task they perform and in my opinion all those prices seem pretty reasonable.

Personally I think making a direct link between organically grown food and starvation is taking it a step too far.
Realisticly it is more about us western people wanting to maintain a certain lifestyle with the emphasis on consuming.


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## Tabitha (Feb 1, 2010)

carillon said:
			
		

> Organic products are more expensive than non-organic products, and reasonably so, but when people want to complain about starving children having no food, I don't think the organic way of doing things can produce the volume of crops needed to supply the world.



Organic crops are not feeding starving children, but neither are our cars, our televisions, or our indoor toilets. I do believe there is a direct correlation with people who buy/grow organic & people who donate time & energy to the worlds hunger needs. People who are conscious on one level are general conscious on both/several. I also believe you will find a lower rate of donations of both time & money by people who sit around & moan.


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## carillon (Feb 1, 2010)

What might I ask idoes your comment about cars and indoor toilets have to do with organic farming?  You can criticize anyone you like, but the does not change the fact that without the chemicals we use to eliminate pests and disease from our crops, people will starve--the world could never produce enough food to feed its people.

I kind of think that comment about people buying/growing organic is a giant slap in the face to the hard working farmers of America and elsewhere who produce MASSIVE amounts of food that we put on our table.

I'm not diminishing the value of organic crops, I'm just saying they cannot be relied upon at this point to feed the world. You can call that moaning if you like, but it is ignorant to suppose that just because someone doesn't jump on the organic bandwagon that they are not socially conscious or involved when it comes to world hunger or other human needs.  

Believe it or not, organic farming is not the only focus people can have.  There are so many other social issues that take priority in my life as far as causes that I donate my time and my money to.  It's positively laughable at the number of people who act as though they are morally superior because they buy organic fruits and vegetables at the supermarket.


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## dagmar88 (Feb 2, 2010)

carillon said:
			
		

> What might I ask idoes your comment about cars and indoor toilets have to do with organic farming?  You can criticize anyone you like, but the does not change the fact that without the chemicals we use to eliminate pests and disease from our crops, people will starve--the world could never produce enough food to feed its people.



What cars and indoor toilets have to do with starving people? Us western people choose to lead a certain lifestyle where we prefere our comfort above other people's life. 
Without being judgemental because that is what my husband and me do too.

You clearly have not taken the time to read my post. 

_To quote myself:
-Inconvenience by parasites, illness and weeds has to be prevented by rotation of crops, variety of choice, protection of and introducing natural enemies. 
Only when the business faces an immediate thread to production a limited range of plant treatment products may be used. _

In other words, pesticides are not using in a preventive way, but they are used when unavoidable.
The world is producing more than enough for everyone; the fact that it is not equally divided is because we really don't want to.



			
				carillon said:
			
		

> I kind of think that comment about people buying/growing organic is a giant slap in the face to the hard working farmers of America and elsewhere who produce MASSIVE amounts of food that we put on our table.



Yes, the massive amounts the Americans put on THEIR table. 
May I ask how consuming a ridiculous amount (3200-3400 calories a day) helps anyone?
When American farmers do not stop introducing the current exessive amount of pestices in our environment they will be forced either to hire more (truly hardworking!) Mexicans as human pollinators or to close down their businesses...  

I've been to many farms (both traditional and organic ones) and I choose not to buy the items from traditional farmers when possible because I disagree with their production methods.
I have a lot of respect for farmers and all the work they put in their business in general though.
I don't think my comment was in any way disrespecting to anyone.



			
				carillon said:
			
		

> I'm not diminishing the value of organic crops, I'm just saying they cannot be relied upon at this point to feed the world. You can call that moaning if you like, but it is ignorant to suppose that just because someone doesn't jump on the organic bandwagon that they are not socially conscious or involved when it comes to world hunger or other human needs.



No, it is your choice and the choice of most people in western the world. 
Just like it is my choice to eat organic fruit and vegetables (and I've been doing so for the past 15 years; so no band wagon around here), to consume less, to give to a charity that provides powdered milk and medication to HIV postive mothers and pregnant woman, to help the green cross in Nigeria phisically, to choose second hand goods over new products, not to travel by airplane and to put the emphasis on what have mentally instead of what we own.

We all live our lives the way we want to and are entitled to our own opinions. As long as they're not hurtful or judgemental.

Organic fruits, vegetables and orgaically raised livestock are at this time not enough to feed the world, I'm with you on that.
And this is not the right financial time for farmers to turn over.
However, using pesticedes on a massive scale since the '40s hasn't done much (but contributing to pollution) to this date either.
Not every country chooses to grow genetically modified crops. 
In the past America has send Africa tons and tons of genetically modified corn to feed the starving people. 
Which the local officials burn right away cause they are scared those crops will eventually take over their non-modified ones and will in the end undermine their position in world trade.



			
				carillon said:
			
		

> Believe it or not, organic farming is not the only focus people can have.  There are so many other social issues that take priority in my life as far as causes that I donate my time and my money to.  It's positively laughable at the number of people who act as though they are morally superior because they buy organic fruits and vegetables at the supermarket.



I have yet to find the first person who pretents to be morally superiour just because they eat organic fruit and vegetables.
The people who think they're better than my husband and me because thy wear a rolex and have a new mercedes under they're bottocks are countless though  :wink: 
We have a life too, you know   Okay, we can rave over our organically grown red carrots   
But normally organic food is a non-issue. 
We get our paper bag of organic fruit & veggies every thursday for €14.50 from the national organic food club and that's it.
We're not letting our armpit hair and beards grow while we wear organic cotton clothes and jesus slippers marching with our protest boards to save the whale :wink: 
We're not trying to save to world; we try to find a way to live in comfort while we're still able to feel good about ourselves and we'd like the future generations to be able to do the same.


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## IanT (Feb 2, 2010)

I think one thing thats really nuts about mainstream farming (and Im from a farm family) is how the chemicals have made it into our drinking water... even the prescription drugs that are consumed by humans are making their way into our water supply:

Drugs in tap water

Farm Runoff

It makes me feel so helpless to know that there really isnt much you can do to prevent ingesting these things other than setting up some huge water purification system in your home, or somehow desalinating and evaporating water from the ocean so that the solutes dont get into the evaporated water for drinking..


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## dagmar88 (Feb 2, 2010)

Ian, haven't seen this yet?

http://www.plasticsoep.nl/nl/videos/
(plastic soup in dutch)

I so not want to drink evapoated ocean water!

The free radicals that get into your system from pesticides, traffic etc. should be able to be bind with the antioxidants in 'clean' fruit & veggies.

I worry more about the antibiotics in pork; I'm allgic to some antibiotics and every so often when I eat pork I get a terrible rash from it  :roll:


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## IanT (Feb 2, 2010)

dagmar88 said:
			
		

> Ian, haven't seen this yet?
> 
> http://www.plasticsoep.nl/nl/videos/
> (plastic soup in dutch)
> ...



yeah I stay away from pork...can sum the reason up in one word= botulism. dont want that...nooooo sireeee.... its good some times cooked like hockey-puck style to kill everything... but thats my only way lol


actually yes I have seen that link before, it disguists me to think of how much garbage is thrown in the ocean... just naaaaaaaaasty... that is off in the pacific west of california, apparently because of the oceans currents, all the garbage just gets held in that big floating garbage dump.. yuck!!!


evaporating water is still good though I think.. its on the same premise that if you were stuck in the backwoods of africa with only rancid pools of nasty water around... if you make an evaporation tent, you can actually turn that nasty water into something drinkable (after boiling to get rid of the parasites).... 

not saying itd be my first choice... if I had the money, all I would drink would be blue ice -water that has been melted down from glaciers millions of years old (waaaay before us humans and our disguiting habits of polluting mama Earth)


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## carillon (Feb 3, 2010)

dagmar88 said:
			
		

> We all live our lives the way we want to and are entitled to our own opinions. As long as they're not hurtful or *judgemental.*



Good words to live by.


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## dagmar88 (Feb 3, 2010)

Thanks


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