# need dog soap recipe,



## c0ntrite (Feb 9, 2015)

Hello Guys,

I need a simple dog soap recipe preferably made from Palm Oil, Coconut Oil and Olive Oil since those oils are the only common ones that I like to use here in the Philippines. I have a site that caters dogs for sale in the Philippines and would like to sell dog soaps on that site.

People are looking for dog soaps for sensitive skin. no fragrance please and tested already  Please keep in mind that their pH is of between 6.2 and 7.4 thanks!


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## maya (Feb 9, 2015)

What have you tried so far? Are you looking for liquid or bar? I assume cold process and not melt and pour.


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## Susie (Feb 11, 2015)

You are not going to be able to make a soap with a pH between 6.2 and 7.4.  To get it that low, you need to look to synthetic detergents(syndets).  There are many people who make dog soaps that are higher pH than that, but you need to understand that you will not be able to make a soap that low.


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## Dorymae (Feb 11, 2015)

Ditto what Susie said. Real soap simply can not be that low of a PH - that is just the nature of soap. 

Also most people will not give away their tested recipes. You may be able to find some on the web somewhere but I doubt highly that they will be tested. People who take the time to fully test usually do so because they sell themselves and so are not keen on giving away something they worked hard to create.


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## Susie (Feb 11, 2015)

Ditto what Dorymae said.  I could not think of a polite way to say that, so I am glad she did.  If you want to know what has been discussed on the subject, just scroll to the bottom of the page and there are several links.  Or you can use the search box at the top to search for dog soap.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 11, 2015)

Dorymae said:


> Ditto what Susie said. Real soap simply can not be that low of a PH - that is just the nature of soap.
> 
> Also most people will not give away their tested recipes. You may be able to find some on the web somewhere but I doubt highly that they will be tested. People who take the time to fully test usually do so because they sell themselves and so are not keen on giving away something they worked hard to create.


 
Especially when someone wants to then go on to sell it :eh:

To the OP, at the bottom of the page are links to other posts about dog soaps.  There is also a post in this section about 3 or 4 posts down where someone was asking about dog shampoo - what did you think of the information that was in there regarding formulating a recipe?


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## c0ntrite (Feb 12, 2015)

Thanks guys for the response. I'm currently testing just a plain recipe using Palm, Coconut Oil and Olive Oil. No fragrance. This is using cold process. Also thank you for the reminder regarding the nature of soaps and it can't have any lower pH than usual. I haven't tested it out on dogs but I've been using them on myself. I don't like the smell, could it be because I didn't put it through gel phase?


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## Susie (Feb 12, 2015)

Gel phase won't affect the smell.  Lack of EOs or FOs will.  If you are willing to add some EOs, then you can add(for the dogs) cedarwood, neem, tea tree...small amounts so as not to irritate, but it does not take much to add a faint scent and _enormous_ label appeal.

Since your join date was 2010, I assumed you have been making soap that long.  Am I correct?  Or is it at least over a year or more?


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## Bubli (Feb 18, 2015)

I use the 100% coconut oil soap with the 20% super fat. That's it! Seriously! I had originally made it for me but it was still too drying on my skin so I use it on my mini snow white poodle. And I honestly can say that the coconut oil soap is the only natural thing that has eliminated the staining on his fur. And for what ever crazy reason, it kills fleas not just temporarily knocks them out and it eliminates doggie odor in the fur.I also use it for dishes and and laundry stain stick. I like it for dog soap because it lathers A LOT and super fast.who has time to fight a freezes out dog while trying to work up a lather?Not me!


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## shunt2011 (Feb 18, 2015)

I would not use 100% CO on my dog regardless of superfat.  Their skin is so very sensitive.  No way no how.


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## BugSoap (Feb 18, 2015)

I may have to give the Coconut oil soap a try for my dog.
 We get allot of ticks and fleas around here, be good to kill the fleas without nasty store bought stuff, wonder if it works on ticks too?

How does it work? Does it just kill the fleas at bath time, or does it keep killing for awhile like days or weeks?
 Does it do anything to keep the fleas chased away from the dog?

I been looking at EO FO wondering if any really chase away fleas/ticks or kills them for a period of time, yet still safe for dogs!


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## BubblesnBears (Feb 18, 2015)

Although testing on yourself first is fine - and I'd certainly recommend it before you test on your own or anybody else's pooch - if you intend selling a dog soap/shampoo you need to test it thoroughly (through family and friends is probably your best bet) BEFORE you sell to the general public. Although it's essentially the same structure, dogs do have different skin/hair properties to us - especially dogs with sensitive/itchy skin, which is often due to some degree of failure in the protective skin "barrier" (if you're trying to formulate for sensitive dogs, you may want to do some research on canine atopy/atopic dermatitis first...Am not working in that area any longer due to injury & chronic health health issued, but I was a vet in a "past life"

I would also be careful with EOs ... Although many do have good insect repelling properties, some that are relatively safe for us can be quite toxic to pets (especially for example if the animal manages to ingest some of the lather).


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## Dahila (Feb 18, 2015)

100% CO will strip the hair from the natural oil, which add to problems with dog's skin.  I had judged and breed dogs for half of my life and would never use soap.  It is to harsh for dogs. Just remember dogs fur is a protection against the cold, the heat, the humidity.  It seems to work on white poodle, but wait till the time the dog gets skin infection due the drying.  It will cost thousand and not always it is curable.  People should treat dogs fur like babies skin, so they would avoid a lot of troubles.  In addition, dogs have 100 better sense of smell than people, and what is ok for us and lightly scented, it is a suffering for dogs
They hate our perfumes, creams and they lick our hands to get rid of scent  
I do mean no disrespect but I am dog crazy


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## BubblesnBears (Feb 18, 2015)

Agree on the CO & EOs Dahlia. 

I do make a dog soap bar (developed it initially - and have used it with good success on my bullmastiff x who has severe allergies) - has also been tested by a good number of others with all sorts of and even some of my vet friends at our local clinic have been using little else on their dogs & love it ... am currently looking at a deal with the owner to get some on his shelves for sale ... But it was well over a year of work & testing before I even thought about selling. But it's als probably my most expensive bar to make (or close to it) due to the oils I use as I aim for high conditioning/low cleansing - and my personal choice is to use herbal extracts over EOs - which of course also adds to $$


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## Dahila (Feb 18, 2015)

I do agree that you can develop gentle soap, what about Ph? Are u lowering it somehow?
I do not have dog right now, but if I had I would make a shampoo with surfacants, genle ones. They are probably cheaper than expensive oil. I am not selling I make soap for myself, and my family. Maybe one day when i have as much expierence with soap as I have with dogs, I will open the busyness) Use calendula infusion it is very gentle for skin, somehow that tough herb survives a bit in soap

I use shampoo bar for myself and my hair stopped falling out, I believe due the lack of harsh chemicals.....
I was breeding German boxers, I love bullmastiffs )


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## BubblesnBears (Feb 18, 2015)

I don't do anything to alter the soap pH... Bearing in mind I'm just using strips, and obviously water interferes with the reading too - the soap once lathered with water has a pH of approx 7. Which I figure works quite well as the normal dog pH skin range is usually regarded as something like 6.2-7.4 (much higher than ours!) 

Liquid shampoo is the next step...I have a few natural surfactants and other goodies that I've been using to play around with a human recipe, but I've completely run out of storage room (is the trouble with too many crafts!)


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## shunt2011 (Feb 18, 2015)

BubblesnBears said:


> I don't do anything to alter the soap pH... Bearing in mind I'm just using strips, and obviously water interferes with the reading too - the soap once lathered with water has a pH of approx 7. Which I figure works quite well as the normal dog pH skin range is usually regarded as something like 6.2-7.4 (much higher than ours!)
> 
> Liquid shampoo is the next step...I have a few natural surfactants and other goodies that I've been using to play around with a human recipe, but I've completely run out of storage room (is the trouble with too many crafts!)


 
The normal ph of handmade soap is 8-12 or higher.  My vet was very firm about not using handmade soaps on my dogs.  State the ph is way too high for most dogs.  So, with that I will not ever use handmade soap for them.  All the conditioning in the world won't drop the ph which will strip natural oils that dogs skin and fur needs. 

If you are comfortable doing it that's fine but I personally wouldn't risk it.


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## BubblesnBears (Feb 18, 2015)

shunt2011 said:


> The normal ph of handmade soap is 8-12 or higher.  My vet was very firm about not using handmade soaps on my dogs.  State the ph is way too high for most dogs.  So, with that I will not ever use handmade soap for them.  All the conditioning in the world won't drop the ph which will strip natural oils that dogs skin and fur needs.
> 
> If you are comfortable doing it that's fine but I personally wouldn't risk it.



That's fair enough... But having said that, I am a qualified vet (am not working in practice as I developed a neurological disease several years ago and then as a "bonus" fractured my spine three years ago but I still maintain close links with a good number of former teachers, mentors and colleagues) - have consulted other vets (including asking them to test for me) and in development & testing have spoken several times with a specialist dematologist I know. 

And yes...would agree that if you were slopping something with a pH of a soap bar (as in - the substance of the actual bar....not entirely sure that makes sense, but I can't think of how better to word it and hopefully you'll get where I'm coming from!) all over a dog's coat, you might be asking for trouble...I say "might" - but in reality unless you've got a super sensitive dog, or you're constantly bathing him/her - pH really isn't (in my opinion and research) quite as crucial as it's made out to be.

I instruct (or at least suggest! to my customers) that they thoroughly wet their dog's coat first - and then apply pre lathered ... Is more educated guesswork and observation than quantitative measurement, but for my large dogs, I'd use about 3L of water to wet their coats first - and with lathering up the bar before applying I'd use perhaps 100ml of lather for the whole dog. My calculations are never going to be exactly on the mark as I'm making a few assumptions regarding water pH, behaviour of the soap lather in solution and such (it's not going to behave quite as a true aqueous solution I'd guess, and being only a weak base complicates things too) - but for the purpose I need and given the wide range of variation in dog skin, I'm happy enough using it. And with that, using the soap in this manner & those approximate concentrations  does effectively lower the pH to somewhere in the range of doggy skin levels and still gives a good clean and condition.  (The pH of the soap straight up is higher - e.g. the drop of water on a pH strip test comes out at around 8.5-9)

Added: Hmm...reading that back perhaps isn't the clearest what I'm trying to say about my pH (is late afternoon here and it's been a long day after a long night...!) The pH of these bars IS around 8.5-9. The pH of my diluted lather (both with pH strip, and calculated based on bar pH & approximate dilution factors) comes in between 6.9 & 7.2 

Hope that clarifies a bit - and also why I'm entirely comfortable with it being used on my own - and other peoples' - dogs?


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## shunt2011 (Feb 19, 2015)

BubblesnBears said:


> That's fair enough... But having said that, I am a qualified vet (am not working in practice as I developed a neurological disease several years ago and then as a "bonus" fractured my spine three years ago but I still maintain close links with a good number of former teachers, mentors and colleagues) - have consulted other vets (including asking them to test for me) and in development & testing have spoken several times with a specialist dematologist I know.
> 
> And yes...would agree that if you were slopping something with a pH of a soap bar (as in - the substance of the actual bar....not entirely sure that makes sense, but I can't think of how better to word it and hopefully you'll get where I'm coming from!) all over a dog's coat, you might be asking for trouble...I say "might" - but in reality unless you've got a super sensitive dog, or you're constantly bathing him/her - pH really isn't (in my opinion and research) quite as crucial as it's made out to be.
> 
> ...


 
That's perfectly fine if you are comfortable with it.  I still won't.  Thank for the info though.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 19, 2015)

BubblesnBears said:


> That's fair enough... But having said that, I am a qualified vet (am not working in practice as I developed a neurological disease several years ago and then as a "bonus" fractured my spine three years ago but I still maintain close links with a good number of former teachers, mentors and colleagues) - have consulted other vets (including asking them to test for me) and in development & testing have spoken several times with a specialist dematologist I know.
> 
> And yes...would agree that if you were slopping something with a pH of a soap bar (as in - the substance of the actual bar....not entirely sure that makes sense, but I can't think of how better to word it and hopefully you'll get where I'm coming from!) all over a dog's coat, you might be asking for trouble...I say "might" - but in reality unless you've got a super sensitive dog, or you're constantly bathing him/her - pH really isn't (in my opinion and research) quite as crucial as it's made out to be.
> 
> ...


 
This is because the actual pH measurement of soap needs to be at a 1:99 ratio with water. So when you are using yours and using more water than that, the reading will be not to compare to the 1:99 reading, nor does it work testing directly on the bar.

Which is why pH testing is pretty much worthless, as unless EVERYONE does it correctly, the numbers mean nothing.


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## DeeAnna (Feb 19, 2015)

"..Does it just kill the fleas at bath time, or does it keep killing for awhile like days or weeks? Does it do anything to keep the fleas chased away from the dog?..."

Soap is a contact insecticide for some species of insects. It's even used on plants to kill aphids and such. Soap => Contact insecticide => Kills on contact. Does not persist (last) long. Doesn't "chase" anything.

Any bath and any soap will kill fleas. Keep the dog wet and lathered up for about 5 minutes and the fleas will be slowed down until they drown.

And about essential oils for pets -- Don't read a bunch of stuff on the internet blogs and then turn your dog or other pet into a medical experiment. If you don't really KNOW what you're doing, just don't. There are EOs that kill fleas, yes, but they can also make a dog incredibly ill, including irreversible kidney or liver failure, or even kill a dog outright. And bear in mind that dogs are much more tolerant of EOs than cats (and other small animals, including birds).


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## Shaefercd (Mar 11, 2015)

Thank you. Well said!


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## HappyHomeSoapCo (Mar 12, 2015)

On another thread about shampoo, someone mentioned using Apple cider vinegar as the liquid for the lye solution. Sounds like it wouldn't work, but the person posting this info said it did in fact work, and it does help to lower the pH. 

Does anyone know if this would be a good idea for a dog bar too?


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## DeeAnna (Mar 14, 2015)

No vinegar does NOT lower pH of soap. I don't care how much wishful thinking that people put into this idea, the fact remains that vinegar simply raises the superfat of the soap and can do so to the point that the soap remains soft and does not lather well.


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## not_ally (Mar 14, 2015)

Sigh.  Keep wishing there was a safe EO remedy for fleas on dogs.  I keep researching it and have never felt comfortable putting EOs on my dogs, just not OK with the open questions.  

Equally uncomfortable with commercial flea/tick killers that are so toxic that I am not supposed to touch my dogs for 24 hrs afterwards, I have ordered them and then not been able to bring myself to apply them.

But also hate to see the puppies scratching too much.  Don't like to wash them more than once a month b/c it strips the oils from their skins, but they get itchy/bitten in between, and I know fleas can carry disease. What do you guys do?


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## Dorymae (Mar 14, 2015)

It is a catch 22, and all you can do is pick the lesser of the evils. For me it is washing with a unscented soap, leaving the dog lathered for at least 5 mins to kill the fleas. 

I do add a bit of oil to my dogs food to help with her coat, and she occasionally gets some hard boiled eggs as well. 

I'm not sure if adding oil helps her skin but the toxic chemicals are definitely out, and fleas haven't been so bad that I feel the need to try EO, even the ones that claim to be safest.


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## not_ally (Mar 14, 2015)

It is such a conundrum.  My little one is not so hard, she doesn't mind being washed and it is easy to do, I can do it in the kitchen sink (sorry if that grosses some of you out.)  

Freddie is harder, he is bigger and hates getting a bath, it is a bit of an ordeal.  I have to entirely disrobe, get in the shower with him, close the door, he is fighting to get out the whole time no matter how calm/comforting I try to make it.  Water the perfect temp, special dog shower attachment, his favorite music, you name it, I do it.  Still,  five minutes would seem like a lifetime to him, but he might just have to deal with it.


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## jnl (Mar 15, 2015)

like ive mentioned before in other posts, my dog has the most sensitive skin out there and the first time she ever had a bath where she was NOT horribly itchy for days or weeks after was when i tried my goats milk oatmeal and honey soap on her.  just got her wet, then rubbed the bar all over her until she was good and soapy and rinsed.  for her face i put lather on my hands and was careful around her eyes.  apparently the PH doesnt really matter, because if it did my dog would have gone nuts.  its more about the contents of the soap, and natural appears to be best.  neutral ph synthetic cleaners are horrific on my dog, and believe me, i tried them all.  i wish it had not taken me 8 years to find something i could clean my dog with without torturing her.


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## Susie (Mar 15, 2015)

not_ally said:


> Sigh.  Keep wishing there was a safe EO remedy for fleas on dogs.  I keep researching it and have never felt comfortable putting EOs on my dogs, just not OK with the open questions.
> 
> Equally uncomfortable with commercial flea/tick killers that are so toxic that I am not supposed to touch my dogs for 24 hrs afterwards, I have ordered them and then not been able to bring myself to apply them.
> 
> But also hate to see the puppies scratching too much.  Don't like to wash them more than once a month b/c it strips the oils from their skins, but they get itchy/bitten in between, and I know fleas can carry disease. What do you guys do?



I use the stuff you put on the back of their necks.  You get good flea and tick protection.  Just be sure to get it right under where their collars should rest so they can't reach it.


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## Obsidian (Mar 15, 2015)

I hate the stuff you put on the back. It leaves a nasty greasy spot and it almost sent the cat to the vet after he had a severe reaction and lost most of his fur. I switched to a pill instead, its a bit pricey but it worked really well.
http://www.entirelypets.com/program-for-dogs.html


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## JayJay (Mar 15, 2015)

Hi! 

I just thought I would mention this. I read somewhere that tea tree oil is toxic for dogs. It can be absorbed through the skin in small amounts and still harm the dog. I agree with previous posters, no scent is probably safest. 

My dog's skin seems to like 100% Olive oil soap. Commercial soaps that I have tried seems to make her itch... Including a dog oatmeal shampoo.


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## DeeAnna (Mar 19, 2015)

I live in a heavily forested area with lots of ticks, including deer ticks. I have had the pleasure of treating my four dogs twice now with a month-long course of doxycycline to combat their Lyme disease. The second round included additional lab testing and a course of vaccinations for Lyme. Lyme disease can become a chronic health issue complete with the potential for irreversible muscle and heart problems ... and expensive vet and lab bills to boot.

As a consequence, I've become a stickler for using an effective product that controls ticks and thus controls fleas. While using something like Frontline for fleas and ticks does have its disadvantages, it's far, far better than the consequences of not using an effective control. Just took the first tick of 2015 off Parker, our Basset hound -- we had an unusually warm spell a few days ago -- so it's time to start treating again.

If you only have fleas to deal with, consider yourself fortunate!


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## dixiedragon (Mar 19, 2015)

I coat my dog with Ivory dishwashing liquid. Let it sit for 15 minutes. Use a nit comb to remove the fleas. 

Diotemacious earth is a pet safe natural insect killer.

Another thing - flea eggs can survive in your vacuum. If you are fighting an infestation, pull the bag out of the vacuum and put it in the trash away from your house. If you can't do that right away, put it in your freezer.


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## Dahila (Mar 19, 2015)

I used Advantage for many many years, no dog of mine had any reaction to it, the fleas had.


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## Susie (Mar 19, 2015)

We live in the middle of a forest in the deep south.  Ticks and fleas are a fact of life year round.  Nothing, and I mean nothing, beats monthly treatment with an effective product from the vet(or online now).  Too many dogs have long term health issues that can be avoided with use of those.


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## Saponista (Mar 19, 2015)

I had activyl for my cats, but it left s horrible greasy mark on their fur. I swapped to stronghold as it doesn't leave a residue. I would rather take the small risk that the chemicals in the treatment may cause adverse effects compared to the damage caused by infestations like heartworm which can be fatal.


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## shunt2011 (Mar 19, 2015)

I agree with using vet approved treatments.  Because of it we have never had an issue.  Same with heartworm medication.  Would rather give them the meds than have them suffer with heartworm.  I've see a couple dogs go through the treatment and it's not fun for them.  Plus it's costly.  Preventative works best.


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## reinbeau (Mar 19, 2015)

I posted a canine shampoo recipe here if you'd like to take a look.  I will say it makes a fantastic human soap also.


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## dixiedragon (Mar 19, 2015)

I want to add that when I used the Ivory dishwashing soap on my dog, she was a puppy. We use Advantage for our adult dogs, which means we don't have to treat our puppy b/c fleas don't have a chance to get started.


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## not_ally (Mar 19, 2015)

Anne, this looks nicer than the shampoo I use on myself, hopefully it will reconcile Fred to his monthly bath   Do you think it would be OK if I left out the neem?  I HATE the way it smells.  Thanks for posting this.


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## reinbeau (Mar 19, 2015)

not_ally said:


> Anne, this looks nicer than the shampoo I use on myself, hopefully it will reconcile Fred to his monthly bath   Do you think it would be OK if I left out the neem?  I HATE the way it smells.  Thanks for posting this.


I know people hate the smell of neem but I gotta tell you, I kinda like it.  However, I used karanja oil, it has the qualities of neem without the really strong scent.  I don't see why you couldn't leave it out, however, it is such a healing, soothing oil, what do you propose to replace it with?

My niece has always had those hard bumps on the back of her arms, I forget what the condition is called, but since she started to use this soap, they've gone away.  Just an anecdote, I know, but hey, it's worth a try! 
http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## not_ally (Mar 19, 2015)

I don't know what I would replace it with, that is the thing.  And in truth, I have never use it in soap, I have just encountered it in gardening products, but the smell always produced an instantaneous and terrible reaction, it really did make me feel sick.  Is it different in its "true" oil form?  This is ironic b/c my folks are Indian and it is used a lot there.


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## reinbeau (Mar 19, 2015)

I gotta say it doesn't come through that much in the soaps I've made.  I usually use it with a nice essential oil blend (such as the one mentioned in the recipe I linked to) and then you can't smell it at all.


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## not_ally (Mar 19, 2015)

Ok, I am going to order a small amount.  Freddie's fur usually has a little bit of burnt smell (vet says that it is normal), I love it b/c it is him, but I don't think the neem will change things than much based on what you said.  I just don't want to put anything on him that makes him not smell like him, I nuzzle him as much as he will allow. Yes, I am a crazy dog lady.


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## Dahila (Mar 19, 2015)

Neem dissapears the smell of neem oil in time of curing.  I am kind of getting upset in this thread.  So many posts why we should not use essential oils on animals.........still same thing. 
I do not want to offense anyone, but after over 30 years of breeding, judging dogs, I had acquired a lot of expierence. CP Soap is not good for animals!!!!
Someone mentioned about putting some oil after bath; yes olive oil is good rub some in your palms and put with few strokes this on dog skin.  Not enough to lick and enough to give some balance to the fur. 
With adults,  I used advantage,  the problem was when we had puppies,  you can not wash them safely the best for the first 3 months or so.  They are too small to use any chemicals on them. 
 I am like not_ally dog crazy woman )


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## reinbeau (Mar 20, 2015)

Well, I know many, many people who use mild soap on their dogs and have absolutely no issues whatsoever.  I see nothing to get upset about.  Study, learn, and do no harm first - but washing a dog isn't rocket science.  Tea tree oil should be avoided, yes, but the small amount of scent used in a wash off product isn't going to hurt the dog at all.  You're ok with an insecticide though.  Hmmmm.  Sorry, but I think your thinking on the matter is backwards.  The soaps we are proposing are far less harmful than the potent Advantage you are ok with.


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## Dahila (Mar 20, 2015)

reinbeau said:


> Well, I know many, many people who use mild soap on their dogs and have absolutely no issues whatsoever.  I see nothing to get upset about.  Study, learn, and do no harm first - but washing a dog isn't rocket science.  Tea tree oil should be avoided, yes, but the small amount of scent used in a wash off product isn't going to hurt the dog at all.  You're ok with an insecticide though.  Hmmmm.  Sorry, but I think your thinking on the matter is backwards.  The soaps we are proposing are far less harmful than the potent Advantage you are ok with.


I was not ok with advantage but my family, all of them have allergies and strong reaction to any insects.  I could not breed the dogs if they had fleas. They were in house not outside,  German boxers ) 
I am too serious to sell pure breed puppies for hundreds with addition to flea) 
I respect you Ann but Cp soap NO .


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## ntos (May 26, 2015)

I have a dog soap I make and is one of my best sellers I researched the ingredients and safe for dogs skin and coat I use tomato juice and tomato that I purée I use it on my dog lathers really nice no eos no fragrance red palm gives it the beautiful colour


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