# Sea Salt in Bars



## dippy (May 14, 2020)

Hi All

I am a newbie here and I am in the process of formulating my first 2 recipes with the help of a lye calc.  I want all natural products as that is what brought me to soap making and I am looking to make a gentle all round bar (possibly with goats milk) and a body scrub bar.

For the body scrub bar I like the sound of sea salt for the exfoliation.  My question is how do you put this in the bar?  As it comes from the shops or do you have to grind it down smaller?  The sea salt you buy from supermarkets to put in salt grinders are fairly large lumps and I am wondering if that is too harsh on skin as it comes.  Also do you put it in at the end once you have a light trace or before then?

Thanks so much for reading!  I am at the very start of the learning curve but I am learning lots reading threads on here.

Dippy


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## Obsidian (May 14, 2020)

First off, salt isn't a exfoliant. The salt dissolves away quickly and you'll have a nice smooth bar.

You want to use fine ground sea salt, never grind it yourself. That creates very sharp edges that will slice your skin.

Salt reduces lather so a salt bar has to be formulated with that in mind. Most people use around 80% coconut with the rest made up of a HO oil of choice, I use olive. Make sure to use SF of 20% to counter the high cleansing of the coconut.

Add the salt at med trace so it doesn't sink. It will generally set up really quickly so you need to add any color/scent before the salt.

Salt bars also get incredibly hard quickly and can be difficult to cut. I suggest using cavity molds instead, much easier.

If you don't want to deal with a salt bar, finely ground oatmeal makes a pretty nice scrubby bar. A cheap coffee grinder works good for grinding the oatmeal.


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## dippy (May 14, 2020)

Ah thanks so much Obsidian. I will try the oatmeal instead.  Can I just blast it in a nutri bullet type blender?  Or does a coffee grinder produce a different level of grind?  I don't have a coffee grinder so it would be another thing to put on the wishlist!

So what is the benefit of the salt bar? Does it lock in moisture or something?  I know every one is different but I am not sure of the appeal of bars that don't lather.


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## Obsidian (May 14, 2020)

Yes, a nutribullet will work great.

Salt bars do lather if enough coconut oil is used, in fact they have a large amount of very thick lather.
If a large amount of salt is added to a basic recipe, thats when the lather is reduced.

Salt bars are not moisturizing, no soap is. It cleans, it doesn't add to the skin.

Salt bars can help with some skin issues like acne. I love them in the summer as they really make my skin feel cleaner.


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## dippy (May 14, 2020)

Ok so if they are good for acne I am guessing they are better with more oily skin types.  I have very dry skin so much so that I didn't get any spots at all as a teenager.  They possibly wouldn't be good for my skin then.

Thanks for pointing out no soap is moisturizing.  I guess I am confusing not stripping the skin of natural oils with actively moisturizing the skin.


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## amd (May 14, 2020)

Obsidian said:


> First off, salt isn't a exfoliant.


My husband will disagree. This is exactly why he refuses to use a shower poofy with a salt bar, he likes the scrubby feeling of the salt on his skin.



dippy said:


> For the body scrub bar I like the sound of sea salt for the exfoliation. My question is how do you put this in the bar?


I think salt bars are worth at least trying once. They can be a nice experience. Use extra fine salt - canning & pickling salt works well and is easily found in grocery stores - and give them a long cure for best results. A recipe that I use from the forum is:
50/50 coconut milk and aloe vera juice
SF 18%
Lye concentration 33%
80% Coconut Oil
15% Liquid Oil (my husband likes avocado oil)
5% Castor Oil
30% Salt (this is not included in oil qty, but is in addition to oil qty, so if you have 100g oils, you would use 30g salt)
I use the aloe juice to dissolve the lye, and add the coconut milk to oils. Mix until trace, add salt, and mix a minute or two longer to keep batter thick enough to hold salt. Pour into mold. If you use a loaf mold that needs to be cut into bars, you will need to cut within a few hours (3-4) and it will still be warm when cutting. I recommend using cavity molds for your first batch, it will make the process so much easier for you.

My hubby has really oily skin, so the high cleansing combination of the salt and coconut oil are great for him.

Ground oatmeal is a nice exfoliant too. I found coffee grounds to be a bit harsh. Cornmeal is nice too, I find I use a lot less of that than ground oatmeal. You can also use poppy seeds, apricot kernel powder - with both of these, less is more, you do not need as much as you think you do.


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## dippy (May 14, 2020)

I will try the salt bar - thanks for the recipe amd.  It does sound nice and if it doesn't suit me it sounds like it would suit my daughters skin.  I have ordered poppy seeds in the order I placed yesterday so will try those also.  I think the oatmeal looks the most promising for me and I like the sound of the oat and honey bars.


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## Obsidian (May 14, 2020)

amd said:


> My husband will disagree. This is exactly why he refuses to use a shower poofy with a salt bar, he likes the scrubby feeling of the salt on his skin.



That is so odd. I've used all kinds if salt and I can't feel any except the too scratchy himalayan.


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## cmzaha (May 14, 2020)

Salt bars themselves are not exfoliating and I am not at all sure how amd's hubby would find a salt bar made with 30% salt exfoliating. But we all have our opinions and that is why we have choices. I have made salt bars for at least 10 years using 100% salt and they are not scrubby, in fact I add oatmeal to mine. The exfoliation comes into play with the natural exfoliation properties of saltwater itself. The recipe I have used since day one is 85% CO or CO/ Palm Kernel Oil Split, 5% liquid Oil, 10% Castor Oil. I have tried many combos of the 80/15 and always return to the above. While I use a log mold mine are really better poured in individual cavity molds because cutting becomes very tricky.

Obsidian just brought up a point I was going to add, never use Himalayan no matter what you read the clay in it is too sharp and will or can lacerate the skin.

Edited to fix my percentages above. This whole staying at home is messing with my brain.


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## dippy (May 14, 2020)

I was intending on using less CO as I had read it was drying in amounts over 50% unless you add more superfat.  I would rather avoid Palm if possible and don't want animal fats.

I am wondering if I am way off with my recipe!  I know I need to experiment myself but don't want to waste lots of money on recipes destined for failure.

I looked at a tutorial online and based it on what ratios they suggested on hard (lathering/conditioning) and soft oils.  I was thinking 30% Coconut Oil, 15% Cocoa Butter, 15% Shea Butter, 30% Olive Oil, 10% Castor Oil

I have put it into the lye calc and the INS looks ok but it seems very low on cleansing!  I am not sure if I am interpreting the calc correctly. Is this a rubbish recipe?  Was thinking of putting goats milk in the place of the water.


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## Megan (May 14, 2020)

My salt bars are smooth as river rocks and that's why I like them. As someone with chronically dry skin, they are still to cleansing for me even with a 30% SF. Mine so far are 100% Coconut oil and I plan to add some more conditioning oil in and drop the SF to 20%. Despite being too cleansing for my full body, I really like them on my upper back and ...shhhh..._butt..._because I tend to get some spots there.



dippy said:


> but it seems very low on cleansing


Low cleansing is GOOD! My go to formula has a cleansing number of 12 and it is a very gentle bar. All soap cleans!


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## dippy (May 14, 2020)

Oh thanks Megan.  I have the same skin type as you so sounds like I am going in the right direction.


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## Obsidian (May 14, 2020)

Yes, you want a lower cleansing number. I try to keep mine around 11 or so but I have dry skin. Personally, I can only use 15-20% coconut most of the time.


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## shunt2011 (May 14, 2020)

I have dry older skin but I love salt soap.  I use it on my face at least 2-3 times a week.   I have experienced some scrubby salt bars myself.  The one I'm using now in the shower was made with powdered salt and it's got some scrubby texture to it.  I used the salt at 50% in this one.  I've had other salts be a bit scrubby as well using fine sea salt.  I've been making them for 9 years now.  They are a favorite of mine and some of my customers.


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## dippy (May 14, 2020)

I will try and get the cleansing down Obsidian.  The trouble is without using palm oil or animal fat I don't think I have enough hard oils.  I dropped the coconut to 10% and upped the olive oil instead which brought my cleansing to 10 but I think it will be too soft and doesn't look like it will be very bubbly.  The INS is 136 which looks on the low side.  

So it's 15% coconut oil, 15% cocoa butter, 15% shea butter, 45% olive oil, 10% castor oil and goats milk added. Does it sound worth trying this recipe or should I keep tinkering with it?  

I have bought a 1kg mould but I think I should be using one half the size initially to avoid expensive mistakes.  I could fill it half way.

I really love the sound of the salt soap shunt.  I will definitely try it.  I think the thing I am realising is everyone is different on what works for them no matter what skin types etc.


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## IrishLass (May 14, 2020)

dippy said:


> I looked at a tutorial online and based it on what ratios they suggested on hard (lathering/conditioning) and soft oils.  I was thinking 30% Coconut Oil, 15% Cocoa Butter, 15% Shea Butter, 30% Olive Oil, 10% Castor Oil
> 
> I have put it into the lye calc and the INS looks ok but it seems very low on cleansing!  I am not sure if I am interpreting the calc correctly. Is this a rubbish recipe?  Was thinking of putting goats milk in the place of the water.



For what it's worth, this recipe actually looks quite nice to me. It's numbers are very close to my own regular tallow/lard formula, which everyone in my household loves, and which I superfat at 8%. It comes out wonderfully bubbly and doesn't dry our skin out, but then again, dryness is very dependent on one's personal skin-type. Although it's not drying to us, that doesn't mean it won't be drying to everyone. That's what makes creating your own soap so wonderful....the ability to tailor it to your own needs. 


RE: salt bars. I'm one of those that doesn't find my salt bars to be scrubby, which is good because I love salt bars and scrubby soap is definitely not my favorite thing with which to shower. I don't even like using a pouf in the shower, except for the bottoms of my feet, that is. When dry, my salt bars do feel a somewhat rough (at least not as smooth as my regular CP when they are dry), but when I get them wet in the shower, they smooth right out and are quite pleasant to use. It could be just my imagination, but I find them to have a certain lovely quality about them that leaves my skin feeling extra freshened or something. Maybe it could be the natural exfoliation of salt water itself that Cmzaha mentioned above, which my skin happily doesn't equate to being scrubby

IrishLass  

For what it's worth, I make mine with 30% fine sea salt ppo, 100% coconut oil, 100% coconut milk as my soaping liquid, and a 13% superfat.


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## earlene (May 14, 2020)

As a new soapmaker, I made a few soaps with exfoliating additives.  Some things ended up way to scratchy for my skin.  So be cautious when you choose them and don't add excessive amounts of exfoliants.  And test them carefully, too.  You may like them, or you may not.  I ended up advising my family to only use some of my exfoliating soaps on their feet as a foot soap, they were so scrubby.  Tea leaves were the worst for scrubbiness for me; as the soap got older and lost more water, the tea leaves got harder and felt much more like I was washing with soapy twigs.  Not all people have the same results, but they may not use the large pieces of tea leaves that I used.  I used loose tea, not the powdery stuff often found in some tea bags.

I used regular table salt in salt bars I made May 1, 2018, at 1:1 ratio of salt to oil (CO only), and 20% SF. It is now 2 years old, and I opened up a bar to see if it feels scratchy. It doesn't, but my skin still finds it too drying.  And that's my hands.  It was also drying on my skin of me lower leg as well (I just washed part of a leg to try on different skin than hands only).  But it wasn't rough or scratchy at all; the surface of the soap is quite smooth except on the bottom (which was really the top of the soap as it sat in the cavity mold when first poured.)

If I make salt soap again, I will try a higher SF than 20% for evaluation, but since my skin is not particularly fond of this, I am in no rush.


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## penelopejane (May 14, 2020)

dippy said:


> I will try and get the cleansing down Obsidian.  The trouble is without using palm oil or animal fat I don't think I have enough hard oils.  I dropped the coconut to 10% and upped the olive oil instead which brought my cleansing to 10 but I think it will be too soft and doesn't look like it will be very bubbly.  The INS is 136 which looks on the low side.
> 
> So it's 15% coconut oil, 15% cocoa butter, 15% shea butter, 45% olive oil, 10% castor oil and goats milk added. Does it sound worth trying this recipe or should I keep tinkering with it?
> 
> ...


The soap calcs numbers don’t work for high olive oil soaps because they don’t take into consideration the fact that olive oil soap turns rock hard after 12 months cure.
your 2nd recipe sounds great. I don’t use palm or animal fats.  I use 10% max coconut oil in soap, some I use no coconut oil. Even in my salt bars I only use 40% coconut oil and the rest is avocado and olive oil.

unfortunately no one can give you the perfect soap recipe because what works for memight not work for you. Best thing is to make a lot of small 1lb batches and test them before cure, after 6 weeks cure, 12 weeks and 12 months cure.


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## cmzaha (May 15, 2020)

dippy said:


> I was intending on using less CO as I had read it was drying in amounts over 50% unless you add more superfat.  I would rather avoid Palm if possible and don't want animal fats.
> 
> I am wondering if I am way off with my recipe!  I know I need to experiment myself but don't want to waste lots of money on recipes destined for failure.
> 
> ...


Your recipe will not work as a salt bar. Much less than 75% CO will not lather and 30% butters in salt bar absolutely will not lather. All you can do is about 7% butters.  For most people 20% SF works fine any higher will get oily. Some people simply cannot use salt bars. Everything is trial and error and dependent on the individual. Do not waste your ingredients on the above recipe you simply will not be happy. Palm oil is also not good in Salt bars. There is just not much I have not tried.


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## penelopejane (May 15, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> Your recipe will not work as a salt bar. Much less than 75% CO will not lather and 30% butters in salt bar absolutely will not lather. All you can do is about 7% butters.  For most people 20% SF works fine any higher will get oily. Some people simply cannot use salt bars. Everything is trial and error and dependent on the individual. Do not waste your ingredients on the above recipe you simply will not be happy. Palm oil is also not good in Salt bars. There is just not much I have not tried.


I think she's looking at a few different bars.  One she was considering was a salt bar.


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## dippy (May 15, 2020)

Yes Penelope is correct. Sorry for the confusion - I knew what I meant in my head but I probably didn't communicate it well. 

I will do a salt bar and I think I will try Irish lasses recipe as it sounds really nice. 

I am looking for the formulation for my standard soap recipe at the moment. Thanks so much though cmzaha - this is what makes this forum so fabulous as you were trying to stop me making an expensive mistake. It's very much appreciated.

I will try recipe 2 as a starting point and as Penelope said keep testing it at different cure times - I just hope it doesn't add too much to the cure time as I am impatient at the best of times.

Are there any soft oils that are known to quicken up the cure time? Off to do more reading..


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## Arimara (May 15, 2020)

I made a salt bar with 400g of coconut oil, 73g of rice bran oil, and 32g of castor oil. those bars are 3+ months old and feel really nice. They didn't seem to dry my hands either. The superfat was about 17% and I think I used 50% salt.


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## dippy (May 15, 2020)

Oh and Earlene I meant to say you really make me laugh! Washing with soapy twigs wasn't the sensory experience I was going for. I will keep the tea for my cup for now.


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## dippy (May 15, 2020)

It's interesting the different ingredients for the salt bar base.  I had read somewhere it needs to be just coconut oil. It's the joy of soap making- lots of ways I can experiment. I will make a note of you recipe if you don't mind arimara - one to try for the future.


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## SeaSuds (May 15, 2020)

Not for the salt bars but if you don't want to use animal fats or palm oil have you considered soy wax? There is lots of info on here and you can buy a European version that is non gmo (Eurosoy 800).


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## dippy (May 15, 2020)

Thanks seasuds i will look into that. With regards soft oils was just reading about avocado oil and it sounds lovely but is expensive. I can see it's going to take lots of experimentation to find my perfect bar!


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## Arimara (May 15, 2020)

dippy said:


> It's interesting the different ingredients for the salt bar base.  I had read somewhere it needs to be just coconut oil. It's the joy of soap making- lots of ways I can experiment. I will make a note of you recipe if you don't mind arimara - one to try for the future.


I think  I made that from someone else's recipe. just run it through a saop calculator and you'll be fine.


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## SeaSuds (May 15, 2020)

dippy said:


> Thanks seasuds i will look into that. With regards soft oils was just reading about avocado oil and it sounds lovely but is expensive. I can see it's going to take lots of experimentation to find my perfect bar!


Avocado oil is expensive to buy from the supermarket but is a bit more cost effective if you buy a larger quantity from a soap supplier such as Soap Kitchen or Gracefruit once you know you want to use it regularly (I love it). Soap Making is an expensive hobby for sure!! Rice Bran Oil and Sweet Almond Oil are lovely too not to mention high oleic sunflower oil....the possibilities are endless!! Funnily enough after over a year of soaping I developed an intolerance to olive oil which has led to lots of new experiments....


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## linne1gi (May 15, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> Salt bars themselves are not exfoliating and I am not at all sure how amd's hubby would find a salt bar made with 30% salt exfoliating. But we all have our opinions and that is why we have choices. I have made salt bars for at least 10 years using 100% salt and they are not scrubby, in fact I add oatmeal to mine. The exfoliation comes into play with the natural exfoliation properties of saltwater itself. The recipe I have used since day one is 80% CO or CO/ Palm Kernel Oil Split, 5% liquid Oil, 10% Castor Oil. I have tried many combos of the 80/15 and always return to the above. While I use a log mold mine are really better poured in individual cavity molds because cutting becomes very tricky.
> 
> Obsidian just brought up a point I was going to add, never use Himalayan no matter what you read the clay in it is too sharp and will or can lacerate the skin.


Your oils only add up to 95%.  I also find salt bars exfoliating. I use very fine sea salt, anywhere between 75-100% of oils. Usually 100% Coconut. I use distilled water to dissolve the lye and add Coconut milk for the 2nd portion (I use a 2:2 ratio). If using a loaf mold I cut in 3-4 hours. Individual molds are much easier.  I always add sugar and mulberry silk to my distilled water before I add the lye.


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## cmzaha (May 15, 2020)

penelopejane said:


> I think she's looking at a few different bars.  One she was considering was a salt bar.


Maybe I did not follow all the posts. sorry...


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## dippy (May 15, 2020)

Sorry I have a couple more quick questions.. I have got a recipe that I think sounds ok on soap qualities for my regular bar but the hardness is only 37 - should I add sodium lactate as I have read it hardens up the soap. The soap does have 33% olive oil so don't know if it makes a difference.

Also as a beginner should I add 100% goats milk in place of the water or 50% milk 50% water. I know I should freeze the milk in ice cubes. Or is adding milk not a beginner level thing?


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## atiz (May 15, 2020)

dippy said:


> Sorry I have a couple more quick questions.. I have got a recipe that I think sounds ok on soap qualities for my regular bar but the hardness is only 37 - should I add sodium lactate as I have read it hardens up the soap. The soap does have 33% olive oil so don't know if it makes a difference.
> 
> Also as a beginner should I add 100% goats milk in place of the water or 50% milk 50% water. I know I should freeze the milk in ice cubes. Or is adding milk not a beginner level thing?


You can add either SL or a little bit of salt (dissolved in the water before the lye) to make the soap harder. But the numbers are not always very telling; it may just need a bit longer curing.

If you feel like adding milk, add it! I used some milk in my very first soap and it didn't end up a disaster (ok, it could've). Nowadays when I use it I like to have my lye dissolved in equal amount of water, and then mix the remaining liquid as milk in my oils. This way you don't need to mess with the ice cubes etc. If you have milk powder, you can also add little extra powder to the oils to make a "whole" replacement" (i.e. add as much as you would for the water that's sitting with your lye).


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## dippy (May 15, 2020)

That sounds so much easier atiz! Do you add the milk to the oils before adding the lye solution/soon after adding the lye solution to the oils or do you mix lye/oils get a light trace first and then add?


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## penelopejane (May 15, 2020)

dippy said:


> Sorry I have a couple more quick questions.. I have got a recipe that I think sounds ok on soap qualities for my regular bar but the hardness is only 37 - should I add sodium lactate as I have read it hardens up the soap. The soap does have 33% olive oil so don't know if it makes a difference.
> 
> Also as a beginner should I add 100% goats milk in place of the water or 50% milk 50% water. I know I should freeze the milk in ice cubes. Or is adding milk not a beginner level thing?


I didn’t look at the numbers in soap calc. They just don’t work for olive oil soap. Don’t get hung up on hard and soft oils because olive oil is described as a soft oil but it makes a hard bar.
I would try and formulate a bar that works first then think about sodium lactate. It changes the feel of soap. Salt is good to add to the water at 3% for hardness.

Almond oil might be cheaper than Avocado oil (for you) and produces similar results in soap.
I think the 100% coconut for salt bars was started by people who must have bubbles. It could like high OO soaps you’ll like later over bubbles so you can experiment to your hearts content. Coconut oil soaps dissolve really quickly for me which I find diisappointng. A salt bar, no matter what the ingredients, may sweat a bit for a few months - dry it and change any cloth it is sitting on regularly or use a dehumidifier.  They also need 9 months to cure. The texture and lather changes over time so don’t give up on them at 3 months.

What got me into soap making was a friend gave me some handmade soap. 30/30/30/10 palm/coconut/olive/castor.  I found it mushy and harsh. I put it in the cupboard. Almost 2 years later I found it and tried it again and it was amazing. I still think that recipe is drying for me so I’ve since found much better formulas for me but what a difference time makes to soap.


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## penelopejane (May 15, 2020)

dippy said:


> That sounds so much easier atiz! Do you add the milk to the oils before adding the lye solution/soon after adding the lye solution to the oils or do you mix lye/oils get a light trace first and then add?


It’s called the split method and it is a very easy way to soap with milk.
Add additives to the milk and mix the milk into the oils then add the lye. I don’t mix anything at trace because I want things thoroughly mixed - including FOs etc.

But there is no “right way” to make soap. You’ll find lots of very experienced people on the forum make soap in lots of different ways.


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## dippy (May 15, 2020)

Thank you for those pearls of wisdom Penelope! I can wait to get started i just wish my order of supplies would arrive. 

I will look at pricing of almond oil in comparison to avocado oil here in the UK. I use a lot of almond milk and other almond products as I am dairy free but have never bought almond oil.


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## SeaSuds (May 15, 2020)

The last time I bought sweet almond oil from the Soap Kitchen it was a little cheaper than olive oil and a lot cheaper than avocado oil! Prices are increasing because of the current situation unfortunately.  You can also try different milk powders which are easy to add to your oils...


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## dippy (May 15, 2020)

Oh thanks seasuds. I found a good price on the soapery website and I have just done a search on the forum and it appears people have recommended them before. I will compare with soap kitchen and a few others.  

I was just going to use olive oil from Aldi as I won't be using massive amounts.

Now thinking of milk powders - I can see how this hobby escalates!


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## RevolutionSoap (May 15, 2020)

Anyone from the N.UT area?  I'd love to get some salt from the Great Salt Lake to put into some of our salts.  Wonder if anyone has tried that.


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## atiz (May 15, 2020)

What @penelopejane said. I mix everything to the oils before adding the lye. It makes everything quite easy, and less of a chance that I'll forget it.
Good luck!


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## cmzaha (May 15, 2020)

linne1gi said:


> Your oils only add up to 95%.  I also find salt bars exfoliating. I use very fine sea salt, anywhere between 75-100% of oils. Usually 100% Coconut. I use distilled water to dissolve the lye and add Coconut milk for the 2nd portion (I use a 2:2 ratio). If using a loaf mold I cut in 3-4 hours. Individual molds are much easier.  I always add sugar and mulberry silk to my distilled water before I add the lye.


I corrected it.


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## earlene (May 15, 2020)

RevolutionSoap said:


> Anyone from the N.UT area?  I'd love to get some salt from the Great Salt Lake to put into some of our salts.  Wonder if anyone has tried that.



Yes I made soap using the salt I harvested from the Bonneville Salt Flats. I collected the salt from the North side of the Freeway as I was traveling West to visit my son on the West Coast. I describe the making of the soap here.  And below  is a photo of the lather at 7 months.








						Bonneville Salt Flats Soap - Lather
					

Soap I made with salt collected from the Bonneville Salt Flats outside of Salt Lake City, Utah Soap made on Aug 18, 2018 - 20% SF, 82% CO, 18% HO Safflower oil, 20-25% Salt (% oils) age 7 months when this lather test was performed;  still rather...




					www.soapmakingforum.com
				




What I can tell you is that this soap was quite different from salt soap I've made with table salt.  The soap was very crumbly when I first cut it and the outer surfaces of the soap remained oddly crumbly.  And the lather feels completely different from any other soap I have ever made.


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