# How do you melt your oils?



## FragranceGuy (Feb 25, 2021)

I’ve read that when melting palm oil I should heat the whole container and weigh out what I need. Do I just pour the rest of the oil back into the container and let it cool, then reheat the whole container again next time? Are there other oils that I need to treat the same way? Also, I read that I should melt solid oils before I add liquid oils. Does that mean I can heat multiple solids together like crisco and coconut oil in the same pot? Thanks!


----------



## Peachy Clean Soap (Feb 25, 2021)

What I've done w/ my palm oil when its soft I've SB or used beaters to mix it all together tell its a nicely whipped'  consistency, it doesn't seam to separate as much or at all once its re-solidifies. As far as your other butters & oils including PO you can heat them all together. some butters you would want to heat separately like cocoa butter then add it when your hard & soft oils once they reach a temp of 85 90 degrees, It melts nicely as you stir it.


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Feb 25, 2021)

What kind of palm do you use?  If it’s palm shortening or the “no-stir” palm you can just scoop it out and use it.  I use the no-stir kind.  If it’s regular palm oil it’s better for someone who uses that kind to provide advice.  

I melt my solid oils first and then add my liquid oils.


----------



## AliOop (Feb 25, 2021)

Yup, one pot. If you follow @Mobjack Bay's directions, that usually brings the batch temperature down close to where I want to be soaping.

I am not a palm user because I prefer lard. But there are lots of threads here about melting it, storing it, and using it.


----------



## Zing (Feb 25, 2021)

I've learned some hacks from my peeps here.  My palm oil is in a tub, same consistency as Crisco, so it is easy to scoop out only what I need.  
1. I put my melting pot on the scale and weigh out all my solid oils and butters into that one pot.  If I go a little over, it's easy to take out.  Then I use a stove to melt those solids.  
2. Unlike other braver soapers here, I weigh out my liquid oils in individual containers because I'm always going over.  Then I pour those liquid oils into a plastic bowl.
3. Once the solids are melted, I pour those into the plastic bowl containing the liquids.

I used to pour everything into the pot containing the melted solids, but things cool down quicker now that I use a separate bowl.  Hope that made sense.


----------



## TheGecko (Feb 25, 2021)

FragranceGuy said:


> I’ve read that when melting palm oil I should heat the whole container and weigh out what I need. Do I just pour the rest of the oil back into the container and let it cool, then reheat the whole container again next time? Are there other oils that I need to treat the same way? Also, I read that I should melt solid oils before I add liquid oils. Does that mean I can heat multiple solids together like crisco and coconut oil in the same pot? Thanks!



I used to melt my Palm Oil to a slurry, then mix it up real well and measure out what I need.  Before I started Master Batching, I would measure my Cocoa Butter and melt halfway, then add in my Palm Oil (slurry), melt a little more, add my Coconut Oil, finish melting, then add my Shea Butter and melt it with the residual heat.  I would add my Olive and Castor Oil.

Mostly it’s a matter of personal preference.  The way I did it had partly to do with melting time of the ingredients and partly to do with limited space...not being able to have all my ingredients out at the same time.  It is important to make sure that all your hard oils, butters and additives are at their best for best results.


----------



## Jersey Girl (Feb 25, 2021)

I use the no stir palm too.  Comes in a 50 lb cube bag in a box. So much more convenient than worrying about melting it all each time. I get it from Candles and Supplies. I usually pick it up as it’s only about 90 minutes from me. $55 for 50 lb. cant beat it.


----------



## Anstarx (Feb 25, 2021)

My palm is the regular kind that need to be stirred after heating. Upon having a new a batch of palm arriving I melt it and split into plastic bags w/ spout like this↓, each will hold about 500g or so and reusable. My batches are small so one bag of palm like this can last me couple of batches, so I just need to put a bag into hot water every time I need palm instead heating the entire batch,


----------



## kasilofchrisn (Feb 26, 2021)

Anstarx said:


> My palm is the regular kind that need to be stirred after heating. Upon having a new a batch of palm arriving I melt it and split into plastic bags w/ spout like this↓, each will hold about 500g or so and reusable. My batches are small so one bag of palm like this can last me couple of batches, so I just need to put a bag into hot water every time I need palm instead heating the entire batch,
> View attachment 54453


I do the same thing.
But instead of the bags I just use canning jars/lids. I always have plenty of jars on hand and like you said the smaller portion is much easier to melt.
I melt my hard oils in a double boiler.
I think I paid $15 for my last one on Amazon. I don't sell or make large batches so I don't need a big double boiler.


----------



## ResolvableOwl (Feb 26, 2021)

Ditto. I melted up the palm oil (RBD) until clear and just poured it into individual soap moulds (silicone). Guess why I have those at hand. Let it solidify as far as it would at room temperature or in the frigde, without trouble of bulk demixing. Now I have a bag of handy, homogeneous pieces, each about 50 g. Just one warning with red palm oil: moulds tend to keep the crazy orange colour!

For more “precious” fats (soy wax, cupuaçu, cocoa butter…), another good shape is a chocolate bar mould. Just don't mistake it for a bar of white chocolate at a late-night food craving…


----------



## FragranceGuy (Feb 26, 2021)

Signing up for this forum was the smartest thing I’ve done since becoming interested in soap making. The combined knowledge here is, I don’t know the word.. mind blowing/jaw dropping/inspiring/smile inducing. The different ways you all divide your palm oils are so clever. Thank all of you!

@Mobjack Bay I haven’t yet purchased palm oil, but I think I’ll start with the no stir. I’m a beginner and I’d like to minimize human error and focus on the basics.

@AliOop I’ve been experimenting with lard in the soap calc and I really like what I’m getting. What qualities does lard offer that makes it one of your favorites?

I have two more questions about oils...

1. If you’re making a recipe with only soft oils, like Castile, do you still heat your oils or soap at room temp?

2. When you refer to shelf life are you referring to the length of time after opening? Puchacing?


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Feb 26, 2021)

FragranceGuy said:


> I’ve read that when melting palm oil I should heat the whole container and weigh out what I need. Do I just pour the rest of the oil back into the container and let it cool, then reheat the whole container again next time?


Regular palm oil is a special case. The stearic acid tends to settle to the bottom so it's necessary heat and stir all the oil before measuring out what you need. Then I pour into smaller containers to keep on the shelf. Sometimes I heat a batch of oils like Palm/PKO (Palm Kernel Oil) and Olive Oil together and put that on a shelf until I'm ready to soap. I'm going to do that today as a matter of fact.


FragranceGuy said:


> 1. If you’re making a recipe with only soft oils, like Castile, do you still heat your oils or soap at room temp?


You can do either. I prefer to warm liquid oils like OO to about 100°F before adding my lye solution.


FragranceGuy said:


> 2. When you refer to shelf life are you referring to the length of time after opening? Puchacing?


Shelf life generally refers to "time after opening". 
However, that changes if you purchase an oil today and it remains unopened for a year or more, it may or may not be good to use. It depends. Then it's a judgment call. 

*BEGINNER'S GUIDE TO SOAPMAKING OILS*


----------



## AliOop (Feb 26, 2021)

I like lard because it is:

1. cheap
2. readily available
3. slow-moving, i.e., slow to trace (which equals more time to make swirls and designs)
4. slow to go rancid, i.e. long shelf-life

and most importantly:

5. *Lard makes great soap*! Lard is very gentle on the skin. Folks who can't use any other soap due to skin issues can often 100% lard or high-lard soaps. Many in my family are in that category, which has a lot to do with why I started soaping. 

Lard is very low on cleansing. Don't let SoapCalc fool you - most folks want their cleansing number to be 15 or lower, not between 12 and 22. Soap with a 0 cleansing number will still clean you; it just won't strip away as much of your natural skin oil. High lard soaps often need to cure a bit longer than the standard 4 weeks; I will use them at 6 weeks but love them at 8 weeks.

Good luck on your soapy journey! I've been soaping almost a decade now but only on this forum for about 2.5 years. Like you, I've learned so much here, and have so enjoyed the company of the other SMFers. Uh-oh, that looks like I'm calling them a bad name, doesn't it? oops, well, thankfully we all pretty much have a good sense of humor and like to poke a little fun at ourselves and eachother. I think you will fit right in.


----------



## FragranceGuy (Feb 26, 2021)

@AliOop SMFers  I love it! I’m going to incorporate lard into one of my next two batches. And thanks for clarifying the cleansing numbers. I’ve been hyper focused on getting my values above 12 (closer to 17) but it’s nice to know I have more leeway than I thought. Thanks!

@Zing Yes, thatmakes perfect sense. Once again, in typical Zing fashion, you explained everything so clearly and logically that I could visualize myself doing everything while I read your post. You’d make an excellent teacher.

@AliOop Also, what characters do you look for when purchasing lard? Some brands have added BHAs and BHTs and I’m not sure if antioxidants interfere with the saponification process. Do you have a favorite brand?


----------



## AliOop (Feb 26, 2021)

Yup, that cleansing box causes loads of confusion for most soapers when they first start. Unless you are a grease monkey, landscaper, or person with a similar sweaty job, you probably want to max out at 12-15 if possible. My sweet spot is 10; my DH likes 10-15. He starts to get scaly if we go above 15.

ETA: Just saw your other question. I actual render my own lard most of the time, because I get it very cheaply from a local custom butcher. I add ROE to keep it fresh, just in case my rendering job wasn't perfect (and it probably wasn't).

I've previously purchased the Armour lard from Walmart. It has those additives and soaps just fine. But I just learned Smart Foodservice is right down the road from me. They sell a 48lb bucket of Viva lard for $51. It will take me a LONG time to go through that much lard, but since it doesn't go bad, I'm thrilled to find it at that price. That brand has BHA and citric acid in it, but again, those don't affect how it soaps.

Since you are just starting out, a smaller tub of Armour or SnowFlake from Walmart or the grocery store is a good way to start. If you decide you like it, then it will be time to make those bulk buys.

Oh, and I forgot to mention another benefit of lard is that it makes a very light-colored batter. Some oils (EVOO, Avo), will color your batter greenish. Fine for St. Paddy's Day, not so much for Valentine's Day.


----------



## FragranceGuy (Feb 26, 2021)

You’ve got me excited about lard! (I never thought I’d say those words ) I think I may become a Lardinator as Zany informed me  My gf has very sensitive skin. She’s been using dove since it helped clear up chronic skin issues she had 25 years ago. Most other commercial soaps will irritate her skin. Side note: today she used my 1 week cured first batch of soap and it didn’t irritate her skin at all, which makes me VERY happy  Anyway, I’m going to make her a custom soap using lard, olive oil and coconut oil, aiming for a cleansing value of 10. I’m so excited I already blended my essential oils. Sweet orange, eucalyptus and cedar


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Feb 26, 2021)

Lard is a very special gift to soapers because it makes great soap and is very easy to work with.  The one I thing I don’t like about it is the smell, but I only notice it in older, well-cured soaps that have not retained the scent of the FO or EO.

As for coconut oil, I know from reading here on the forum that higher than 15-20% bothers many people, but I make the bulk of my soaps at 20% and sometimes I use 25%.  I don’t sell, but haven’t had any complaints from friends or family.


----------



## FragranceGuy (Feb 26, 2021)

Correction: I used cypress bc I’m out of cedar wood.

@Mobjack Bay I’ve noticed some tallow bars I’ve bought have a subtle odor. I don’t necessarily find it unpleasant, but it’s distinct. How would you describe the smell of lard? How many weeks cured do you think the smell would emerge in a balanced bar? Would lowering superfat to 3-4% possibly help?


----------



## hlee (Feb 26, 2021)

I think you will love the lard and your girlfriends skin will really love it .
I use Morell Snow Cap lard. Rarely have I picked up a lardy odor in soap but some people seem to detect it more than others maybe?
I usually make a small high % lard soap just for me for winter use but forgot to make it this fall . I have missed it and wont forget again.


----------



## Mobjack Bay (Feb 26, 2021)

What I smell in the soap is in the same scent family as what I smell when I open the bucket of lard, but much milder. I will add that I have a pretty sensitive nose, or at least I did before I had a house full of curing soap. The time frame for me has been linked to the time it takes the scent to fade. I have mostly stopped using FOs and EOs that fade within 6 months, so at this point I wouldn’t start smelling lard until many months after a soap was made. I’ve been making most of my soaps with 2% superfat for a year or so now, but it’s possible that some of the early ones were 5%. Without researching my notes, I can’t say if I think the SF makes a difference. I should point out that the lard smell has not kept me from making lard soap. It’s a favorite in our house, and with many of my relatives (especially the ones who grew up on ranches in the west, which I think is just a coincidence). I just make sure to use a scent that I know will stick.  I have a glorious 18-month old lard bar at my kitchen sink that smells faintly of cinnamon EO and lard. A 1-year old bar in my shower made with Great Value (Walmart) lard and tallow shortening doesn’t have much of a scent at all.  Perhaps the lack of piggy/animal fat scent in the shortening soap has something to do with the way the shortening is processed (?). I’ve read here on the forum that overheating the lard can accentuate the lardy scent, but I’m generally pretty careful not to overheat.  Ironically, the shortening soap that has no scent was made with slightly overheated fats. My best advice is to try things and see what you like.  Testing is a great excuse to make soap.

ETA: I’ve used Morrell, Smithfield and Armour.  I mostly use Armour now because I can get it in bigger buckets.



hlee said:


> I usually make a small high % lard soap just for me for winter use but forgot to make it this fall . I have missed it and wont forget again.


I once made an 80% lard 20% CO soap.  It was very nice, but not quite as nice as soap made from the lard recipe I spent months and months perfecting .


----------



## rdc1978 (Feb 27, 2021)

FragranceGuy said:


> I’ve read that when melting palm oil I should heat the whole container and weigh out what I need. Do I just pour the rest of the oil back into the container and let it cool, then reheat the whole container again next time? Are there other oils that I need to treat the same way? Also, I read that I should melt solid oils before I add liquid oils. Does that mean I can heat multiple solids together like crisco and coconut oil in the same pot? Thanks!



For my palm oil, when I get it in the container, I'll normally heat it up to liquid by placing the container in a saucepan of water and heating it until its liquid.  Then Ill transfer the liquidified palm oil into a large mouthed jar with a screw top lid (from the 99 cent store).  

When I need to use the palm oil for a  recipe, I then just scoop out what I need in its solid form (this takes a little elbow grease) and then I will heat it on the stove with any other solid oil.


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Feb 27, 2021)

Mobjack Bay said:


> The one I thing I don’t like about it is the smell,





FragranceGuy said:


> I’ve noticed some tallow bars I’ve bought have a subtle odor. I don’t necessarily find it unpleasant, but it’s distinct.


TIP: Use *OAKMOSS TO NEUTRALIZE THE ODOR OF LARD & TALLOW* in soap. It works!
It is also an earthy "forest floor" scent when used at normal rates to fragrance a batch.
 It's also great at 1% of the blend to anchor EO blends. Plays nicely with others.


----------



## FragranceGuy (Feb 27, 2021)

Zany_in_CO said:


> TIP: Use *OAKMOSS TO NEUTRALIZE THE ODOR OF LARD & TALLOW* in soap. It works!
> It is also an earthy "forest floor" scent when used at normal rates to fragrance a batch.
> It's also great at 1% of the blend to anchor EO blends. Plays nicely with others.


That’s a gem  of info! Thanks, I love oakmoss in colognes, but don’t own it in EO... YET!


----------



## ibct1969 (Feb 27, 2021)

@FragranceGuy  I'll comment here on soaping with lard. I would have never thought to do it b/c I learned from the Soap Queen and was lured in to buying all of the exotic butters and oils in the recipes in her books. It wasn't until joining this forum and reading about lard soaps that I decided to try it. I will never buy another exotic or expensive oil or butter again. Now, 90% of my soaps are made with lard. Personally, I can't smell it at all in my soaps and I have made 100% lard soap before. I always SF 5-6% depending on summer or winter. I only smell it a bit when I'm melting it in the microwave. It disappears with a six week cure. At least this has been my experience as a hobbyist who has been soaping a few years.


----------



## FragranceGuy (Feb 27, 2021)

@ibct1969 One more Lardinator getting me excited about pig tallow!  Thanks ibct!



Zany_in_CO said:


> TIP: Use *OAKMOSS TO NEUTRALIZE THE ODOR OF LARD & TALLOW* in soap. It works!
> It is also an earthy "forest floor" scent when used at normal rates to fragrance a batch.
> It's also great at 1% of the blend to anchor EO blends. Plays nicely with others.





I’m new to soap making, but I’m not new to fragrances (hence my name )  If we couldn’t add fragrances to soap I probably would have a goal to make soap enough times to learn the basics and then move on. But I view it as a medium to carry scent creations. An excuse to mix fragrances. Just like many people here view it as a canvas for visual arts. I used your oakmoss suggestion to develop a frag for the first 100% lard bar I make...

Top note:
3 parts rosemary

Middle notes:
3 parts geranium
2 parts lavender

Base note:
2 parts oakmoss

I haven’t mixed this yet, it’s based on theory in my “minds nose” but I’ll use it as a starting point. If anyone makes this fragrance before I get a chance, please give me feedback and share any adjustments that you make..


----------



## Aromasuzie (Feb 28, 2021)

FragranceGuy said:


> I’m new to soap making, but I’m not new to fragrances (hence my name )  If we couldn’t add fragrances to soap I probably would have a goal to make soap enough times to learn the basics and then move on. But I view it as a medium to carry scent creations. An excuse to mix fragrances. Just like many people here view it as a canvas for visual arts. I used your oakmoss suggestion to develop a frag for the first 100% lard bar I make...
> 
> Top note:
> 3 parts rosemary
> ...


Just be aware that Geranium may overpower your blend.  I would add that oil laser, easier to add more rather than tone down 



Aromasuzie said:


> Just be aware that Geranium may overpower your blend.  I would add that oil laser, easier to add more rather than tone down


But then if you’re the fragrance guy, you probably know that


----------



## FragranceGuy (Feb 28, 2021)

Aromasuzie said:


> Just be aware that Geranium may overpower your blend.  I would add that oil laser, easier to add more rather than tone down



Thanks Aromasuzie! I’ll probably make a small test batch, maybe swap the values of the lavender and geranium. My lavender is very potent so I opted for more geranium.  I may be FragranceGuy, but I’m certainty no authority and I know VERY little about how EOs behave in soap so keep the advice coming!! I’m here to learn


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Feb 28, 2021)

FragranceGuy said:


> I used your oakmoss suggestion to develop a frag for the first 100% lard bar I make...


Another neat thing about lard is that it tends to help "stick" the scent. As you get further along in your soap-making journey you will experience what many of us have about using EOs (Essential Oils) in soap -- the fragrance dissipates about 6 months later. 


FragranceGuy said:


> I haven’t mixed this yet, it’s based on theory in my “minds nose” but I’ll use it as a starting point.


That's interesting. Quite a "nose" you have there. I "mind smell" every blend I happen to read. 


FragranceGuy said:


> If anyone makes this fragrance before I get a chance, please give me feedback and share any adjustments that you make..


Hey FG, there's a forum here for sharing and getting feedback on essential oils and blends. Best to start a new thread there if you want to reach a larger audience.
*AROMATHERAPY HERBS & ESSENTIAL OILS*

NOTE: Those of us who use EOs to fragrance soap are few and far between due to the fact mentioned above. I use my EO blends for leave-on products and for room and linen sprays. After 4 years of using EOs to scent soap I switched to FOs (Fragrance Oils) just because, in general, they last longer and are less expensive. As you will discover once you start selling, more than anything else, fragrance is the top reason customers are drawn to buy a soap. Fragrance sells!


----------



## FragranceGuy (Feb 28, 2021)

@Zany_in_CO  I had a feeling I would eventually transition to FO the deeper I dive and more experience I have making soap. I think I’ll slowly start building a collection of FO over the next few months while I use up my EO on my first 10 batches or so. Hopefully I’ll have a firm idea of what I like and how far I’d like to take this craft. Do you have any favorite suppliers for FOs? BTW, when you referenced “when” I begin selling soap rather than “if” I sell soap, it really inspired me, because it implies that you believe I may eventually be a good enough soap maker to successfully sell my soap. That means a lot to me. I haven’t put much stock or thought into selling soap yet, because I don’t want to get ahead of myself or distract myself from getting dirty and learning. I will say that soap making has sparked a very passionate desire in me. It combines so many things I love  Working with my hands, combining ingredients, creating recipes, experimentation, measuring, just barely enough danger to require careful concentration, math, chemistry, endless possibilities and... fragrances!!


----------



## cmzaha (Feb 28, 2021)

FragranceGuy said:


> I’ve read that when melting palm oil I should heat the whole container and weigh out what I need. Do I just pour the rest of the oil back into the container and let it cool, then reheat the whole container again next time? Are there other oils that I need to treat the same way? Also, I read that I should melt solid oils before I add liquid oils. Does that mean I can heat multiple solids together like crisco and coconut oil in the same pot? Thanks!


I have never melted all my palm oil and repackaged it. I purchase in 35lb pails and just scoop from different areas of the buckets. I use hdpe buckets such as ones you can buy at a paint store, measure my solid oils out in the bucket and melt them in the microwave, I then measure in my liquid oils. I usually fill several of these buckets with batches melt them and put on lids so I have batches ready to go when I want to soap. What size buckets you use will depend on what size batches you make, I use 1-2 gallon buckets but they do come smaller.


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Mar 1, 2021)

Deleted.


----------



## Zany_in_CO (Mar 1, 2021)

Moved to start a new thread. 

ETA: *EO FO THEORY TO STICK FRAGRANCE*


----------



## PARTSBILL (Mar 1, 2021)

With my GRAND expertise of 1 batch, I added it to the container and zeroed the scale before adding the other. POPPED IT IN THE MICROWAVE FOR @45 seconds .  When it came out just a little coconut was left and I stirred it in.  Temp was 98 degrees


----------



## Tara_H (Mar 1, 2021)

All this talk of melting has got me wondering now - I buy my coconut oil in big jars and I always bash my knuckles trying to get it out, so when I'm planning on soaping I just sit the jar on or near the warm stove (we have a wood burning stove to heat the house) and leave it there until it's liquid. Am I hurting the oil with these repeated melt and cool cycles?


----------



## amd (Mar 2, 2021)

Tara_H said:


> Am I hurting the oil with these repeated melt and cool cycles?


My opinion: no, as long as the oil is not getting heated to a boiling/frying state it should be ok. If the oil starts to change color, I would be cautious of using it. That said... I'm not into the deep science of it, so this is just what makes sense to me.

We have a boiler heat system in our house with a nice platform area, so that's where I keep my masterbatched oil buckets (at least the current one I'm using) to keep the oil nice and liquid.


----------



## Tara_H (Mar 2, 2021)

amd said:


> My opinion: no, as long as the oil is not getting heated to a boiling/frying state it should be ok. If the oil starts to change color, I would be cautious of using it. That said... I'm not into the deep science of it, so this is just what makes sense to me.
> 
> We have a boiler heat system in our house with a nice platform area, so that's where I keep my masterbatched oil buckets (at least the current one I'm using) to keep the oil nice and liquid.


Thanks, yeah that makes sense to me too! I'm not heating the oil to boiling point or anything, only until it melts.

That platform of yours sounds really handy! I'd imagine it might be a good place for proofing bread also


----------



## amd (Mar 2, 2021)

Tara_H said:


> I'd imagine it might be a good place for proofing bread also


I tried it once, but forgot about it for a couple days... lol. Now I just use my instant pot for dough proofing. For awhile I was brewing kombucha in the utility room - and that is where hubby keeps his beer fermenting.


----------



## Zing (Mar 2, 2021)

Tara_H said:


> All this talk of melting has got me wondering now - I buy my coconut oil in big jars and I always bash my knuckles trying to get it out, so when I'm planning on soaping I just sit the jar on or near the warm stove (we have a wood burning stove to heat the house) and leave it there until it's liquid. Am I hurting the oil with these repeated melt and cool cycles?


No, coconut oil is coconut oil solid or melted.  In the summer, I just pour it out.  In the winter, I kill my hands stabbing at the concrete, or put in front of a heating vent.


----------



## AliOop (Mar 2, 2021)

Heating pads are great for melting jars of coconut oil. For bigger buckets of stuff (lookin' at you, PKO), I will set it on a heater vent or on a heating pad, and also wrap a second heating pad around it like a belt, securing it with a bungee cord.

They actually make bucket melters that look just like this, but I refuse to buy one when the heating pad works so well.


----------

