# Non-Greasy lotion bars



## KathrynS (Jan 14, 2019)

Hi y’all!  I have a pickle; I’ve received an order to be sent to Portugal.  The order includes lotion bars and sugar scrub, both made with coconut oil that has a melting point of 76F, if I remember right.  How on earth will I keep that from melting in transit to Portugal??
I tried to make lotion bars with just butters instead of coconut oil and butters, but those came out very greasy and just, no.  
Would Arrowroot powder be the solution to the greasiness?  I’m under the impression Arrowroot helps the skin absorb oils faster, maybe y’all can confirm that for me.  
Any other advice is greatly appreciated!  I love the emails I get from here every day and learning all the new things!


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## MGM (Jan 14, 2019)

I have made butters with added arrowroot, but can't say that it cut the greasiness much. I've made a whole bunch of different recipes and maybe didn't track updates to them very well, plus it's just me testing them, so I'm not a very big sample size. So yes, arrowroot might help, but not a ton, and if I were you, I'd go with a tried and true recipe, then find a way to keep them cool.
Also, though, which part of transit are you worried about them melting in? Portugal is cooler than Louisiana this time of year, AFAIK.


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## Vandam (Jan 14, 2019)

What butters are you using? I use mango when I want a "drier" feel. I have some kokum butter that I haven't played with yet but it seems a drier butter. That said I use oil in my lotion bars also, rice bran is one of my favourites.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 14, 2019)

I'm not saying this caution applies to your situation, @KathrynS, but I thought I'd mention it just in case -- There are scams out there that involve people placing orders for B&B products or soap to be shipped overseas. The maker ships the product in good faith, but never gets paid.


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## Zing (Jan 14, 2019)

KathrynS said:


> Hi y’all!  I have a pickle; I’ve received an order to be sent to Portugal.  The order includes lotion bars and sugar scrub, both made with coconut oil that has a melting point of 76F, if I remember right.  How on earth will I keep that from melting in transit to Portugal??
> I tried to make lotion bars with just butters instead of coconut oil and butters, but those came out very greasy and just, no.
> Would Arrowroot powder be the solution to the greasiness?  I’m under the impression Arrowroot helps the skin absorb oils faster, maybe y’all can confirm that for me.
> Any other advice is greatly appreciated!  I love the emails I get from here every day and learning all the new things!


I recently shipped lotion bars that were 1/3 coconut oil, 1/3 shea butter, 1/3 beeswax to Hawaii, each in individual tins in a cardboard mailer.  I was worried about shipping to the tropics but my friend said they arrived unscathed.


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## SoaperForLife (Jan 14, 2019)

If you don't have to use coconut oil, try this:

44.44% Sal (Shorea) Butter
22.22% Beeswax
33.33 High Melt Point Shea Butter

This recipe makes a nice, non-greasy lotion bar and the Sal butter is super cheap and the high melt point shea doesn't get grainy.


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## KathrynS (Jan 15, 2019)

Oh wow you guys!  I forgot to check my email for a while and so I’m sorry I didn’t say thank you sooner!  Let me send this and then I’ll read your replies!  Thank y’all so much!



Vandam said:


> What butters are you using? I use mango when I want a "drier" feel. I have some kokum butter that I haven't played with yet but it seems a drier butter. That said I use oil in my lotion bars also, rice bran is one of my favourites.


I’m using Shea and Cocounut oil.  I have cocoa butter, but I’m waiting on my deodorized cocoa butter to get here because the order is for “fresh” scents.  Is Mango butter “drier”?  I did not know that!  I’ll definitely order some to try, thank you!



DeeAnna said:


> I'm not saying this caution applies to your situation, @KathrynS, but I thought I'd mention it just in case -- There are scams out there that involve people placing orders for B&B products or soap to be shipped overseas. The maker ships the product in good faith, but never gets paid.


My friend in Florida asked me to send this to his girlfriend in Portugal, so he paid me but thank you for the info!  The more you know and all!



Zing said:


> I recently shipped lotion bars that were 1/3 coconut oil, 1/3 shea butter, 1/3 beeswax to Hawaii, each in individual tins in a cardboard mailer.  I was worried about shipping to the tropics but my friend said they arrived unscathed.


AHHHH THANK YOU for telling me that!! I am SO worried that all my hard work will arrive in a melted mess.  I considered dry ice even though it only lasts two days, better than none?  Your experience makes me feel better because those are my exact ingredients.  Thank you!



SoaperForLife said:


> If you don't have to use coconut oil, try this:
> 
> 44.44% Sal (Shorea) Butter
> 22.22% Beeswax
> ...


Im putting Sal butter and high melt Shea in my shopping cart!  Thank you for that!


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## amd (Jan 15, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> I'm not saying this caution applies to your situation, @KathrynS, but I thought I'd mention it just in case -- There are scams out there that involve people placing orders for B&B products or soap to be shipped overseas. The maker ships the product in good faith, but never gets paid.



Indeed. I quite regularly get one from Sweden. I used to take the time to explain that I don't deal in large quantities and that I require payment upfront. They would continue to push back "no, we pay after receive confirmation of shipment". I went as far as creating an invoice for them to pay upfront, that remained unpaid (I was being sassy and felt like arguing with a spammer that day). After that, I stopped even trying to communicate and just hit delete when those emails come in.

Just throwing this out there for future readers, not directly at KathrynS. (Looks like her experience is legit.)


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## LilyJo (Jan 15, 2019)

Word of caution to any soapmakers selling into the EU (and I know I bang on about it) but technically any product sold into the EU should have been safety assessed before being offered for sale.  You may be able to argue that they were purchased in the US and as such it doesnt apply but its always worth mentioning the safety testing rules that apply to all cosmetics in the EU and the labelling requirements are different to US.

Similar with candles and melts, the labelling requirements seem to be more strict that in the US even though global harmonisation is supposed to apply.


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## shunt2011 (Jan 15, 2019)

@amd I just last week went back and forth with someone from Sweden.  Told her I needed a Cashier's Check and that it had to clear before sending product.  Asked for a copy of her business license, proof of a shipping company and that it will be paid in full by her the purchaser.  Didn't hear back after that. Once a year I decide to give someone crap.  I probably get 3-4 a year.


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## amd (Jan 15, 2019)

^^  I wonder at what point they give up?


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## shunt2011 (Jan 15, 2019)

I don’t think they do. I’m thinking they will eventually find someone to fall for it. Hopefully not though.  I think is mentioning it helps as a public service.


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## KathrynS (Jan 16, 2019)

Well, this does concern me some.  I suppose we can say that it was purchased here and sent as a gift, but I’ve also included some Embryolisse products I used to carry, (I’m also a licensed makeup artist) so would those be an issue?
I suppose not because they have all the professional labeling and whatnot.


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## LilyJo (Jan 16, 2019)

KathrynS said:


> Well, this does concern me some.  I suppose we can say that it was purchased here and sent as a gift, but I’ve also included some Embryolisse products I used to carry, (I’m also a licensed makeup artist) so would those be an issue?
> I suppose not because they have all the professional labeling and whatnot.



I didnt mean to worry you 

I know its so easy to want to send stuff abroad, I'm just a voice of caution having gone through the safety assessment and labelling route I know its very different to anything soapers outside of the EU have to do.  

I think as it was purchased in the US and then sent on, you should be ok but its worth bearing in mind that at the very least it would need to have labelling that complies with EU rules.  EU labelling is different to US as INCI names are supposed to be used for all ingredients and in a strict order. Dont forget that the recipiant may also have to pay import duty and sales tax (dependant on local laws) - in the UK, if it was being sent to me I could have to pay import duty as well as VAT at 20%, one of the reasons why I hate ordering anything from any of the fab companies you have over there. Even gifts for my son end up costing a fortune in extra charges! 

For anyone selling into the EU (including the UK - no matter what happens with Brexit!) products should comply with EU trading laws which means any soaps, bath bombs, creams, lotions, potions etc should be safety assessed before sale and will need to meet our labelling requirements.

Hope I'm not scaring you off, just trying to think of anything that may impact on someone selling into the EU so you know everything before you start


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## KathrynS (Jan 17, 2019)

LilyJo said:


> I didnt mean to worry you
> 
> I know its so easy to want to send stuff abroad, I'm just a voice of caution having gone through the safety assessment and labelling route I know its very different to anything soapers outside of the EU have to do.
> 
> ...



Oh you’re not scaring me, it’s ok!  You’re teaching me and I’m glad.  So I’ve looked up the American FDA requirements on labeling for a bath bomb, and the labeling requirements are actually less strict than it would be if it were handmade soap.  The labels for my particular products (no soap, just milk soaks, salt soaks, bath bombs, shower bombs) are less extensive than that of soap.  It’s surprising but I figured it out on the FDA’s website. 
So here’s my question: Already knowing that my labels meet a lower standard than soap even, that tells me that they definitely won’t meeet EU standards.  
So.  What to do.  I could try to hurry up and find out what info they require and try to get labels made before shipping this to arrive by Valentines Day, which is going to require time and probably a Xanax or two.  (Lol)
Or I could do like those backhanded sellers at smoke shops do and label the products as for aromatherapy only?  I wonder if that’s illegal.  
If that’s illegal I won’t do it.  But I see others get around labeling that way so is it a real loophole that is justified for people like us?  I don’t know. I’m glad I found you.  I haven’t had anyone else tell me these things and I should have shipped yesterday.  I haven’t been able to get out yet.


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## shunt2011 (Jan 17, 2019)

KathrynS said:


> Oh you’re not scaring me, it’s ok!  You’re teaching me and I’m glad.  So I’ve looked up the American FDA requirements on labeling for a bath bomb, and the labeling requirements are actually less strict than it would be if it were handmade soap.  The labels for my particular products (no soap, just milk soaks, salt soaks, bath bombs, shower bombs) are less extensive than that of soap.  It’s surprising but I figured it out on the FDA’s website.
> So here’s my question: Already knowing that my labels meet a lower standard than soap even, that tells me that they definitely won’t meeet EU standards.
> So.  What to do.  I could try to hurry up and find out what info they require and try to get labels made before shipping this to arrive by Valentines Day, which is going to require time and probably a Xanax or two.  (Lol)
> Or I could do like those backhanded sellers at smoke shops do and label the products as for aromatherapy only?  I wonder if that’s illegal.
> If that’s illegal I won’t do it.  But I see others get around labeling that way so is it a real loophole that is justified for people like us?  I don’t know. I’m glad I found you.  I haven’t had anyone else tell me these things and I should have shipped yesterday.  I haven’t been able to get out yet.



Nope,  Soap, does not need a label or ingredients listed unless you make claims (moisturizing etc).  Then you are in the cosmetic or drug category.    I choose to list my ingredients so that my customers are aware of what's in them.  However, doesn't need to

Bath bombs, salt soaks, scrubs, lip bam etc....fall into the cosmetic category and need be labeled accordingly.


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## LilyJo (Jan 17, 2019)

I think the OP was talking about for EU purposes in which case all of the above need a label.

If you want to make it all look above board you need to list ingredients by INCI name with the largest down to the smallest.  Fragrance can be listed as fragrance or perfume but you have to identify (usually in bold) the allergens i.e. linalool etc something like

*Sleep Bath Bomb*
Sodium Bicarbonate, Citric Acid, Aqua, Butyrospermum Parkii, Citrus Paradisi Oil, Anthenis Nobilis Oil, *Limonene, CI47005

Usually you would add contact details but that is tricky in the circumstances; Made in the USA; A weight i.e. e200g (as in estimated 200g); estimated shelf life. Oh and a batch number

I think that should sort of work - its not perfect and its not safety assessed but you have taken a degree of care and at first glance it shouldnt stand out.


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## Dahila (Jan 17, 2019)

https://www.cosmeticseurope.eu/cosmetic-products/understanding-label/


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## KathrynS (Jan 19, 2019)

Thank you all!  I’m going to follow the instructions given on the link posted above.  I’ll make extensive, thorough labels and hope for the best.  I did read that wrapping up a glass jar will make customs want to look through your package, and there’s just no way I can avoid that.  I can’t put essential oil products in plastic.  Plus this package is now huge and heavy, they’re sure to go through it.  I’ll just have it all done thiutoughly.  I appreciate everyone helping!


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## KathrynS (Jan 25, 2019)

Omg y’all I shipped the package and I completely forgot to put the net weight and a batch number!!  I did EVERYTHING else, listed ingredients by the INCI name and listed my name and address, use by date, all of that. 
But I forgot the net weight and a batch number.  Of course.  I worked SO HARD on those labels!!
I guess now I just have to hope customs doesn’t open it.  Is there some shipping company in particular that’s better or have you all found ways around customs opening the package?
I’ve been told to declare that it’s worth less than $100 in order to avoid having it stolen.  This is all crazy.  I’m never shipping overseas again.
Now I’m all worried they’ll try to make an example of me.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 25, 2019)

_"...have you all found ways around customs opening the package? ... I’ve been told to declare that it’s worth less than $100 in order to avoid having it stolen...."_

Nope and nope.

You can't prevent customs from doing what they need to do by lying. And you can't prevent stuff from being rifled or stolen by lying about the value or about what the items are.

My advice, having shipped a fair bit internationally over the years, is to just be honest and straightforward. You don't have to write _War and Peace_ on the customs documents, but don't lie either. Just be brief, factual, and correct. If it's not a gift, it's not a gift. If the value is over $100, then the value is what it is.

If your buyer or the recipient encourages you to fudge the customs paperwork, remember -- the lies are for the benefit of the buyer/recipient and all the risk is yours. The buyer/recipient isn't the one filling out the paperwork and signing their name to it -- the shipper (you) is. I will cancel an order rather than misrepresent a shipment.

***
The least expensive way to ship internationally is via USPS, especially smaller shipments like I think yours is. The fee you get charged up front is the total fee you pay as the shipper. The customer may pay additional customs fees, but that's going to happen no matter who is the carrier.

USPS, FedEx, etc. can be considerably more expensive for shipping, although for some shipments there may be no other alternative but to use one of these carriers. Unless the recipient agrees to pay all shipping costs, these carriers will charge the shipper up front for the shipping cost, and later they will charge the shipper a brokerage fee for routing the shipment through the proper channels. The shipper won't know the amount of the brokerage fee until after the fact. Sometimes this fee exceeds the cost of the actual shipping cost plus the cost of the product being shipped.


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## shunt2011 (Jan 25, 2019)

I'm with DeeAnna, I would never fudge paperwork.  You are ultimately responsible, you are shipping it so you are responsible for doing things correctly and according to all requirements.  I haven't shipped overseas in many years but not worth the risk of getting caught and possibly getting in trouble.


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## KathrynS (Jan 25, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> _"...have you all found ways around customs opening the package? ... I’ve been told to declare that it’s worth less than $100 in order to avoid having it stolen...."_
> 
> Nope and nope.
> 
> ...




Thank you for putting perspective on this.  You’re completely right.  This has gotten uncomfortable for me at this point.  I’m just going to ship it with correct info, and it is out of my hands at that point, thank goodness.  It will no longer be my problem, I’m going to quit worrying about it, it is what it is.  If it gets messed up, it’s not my problem.  I won’t ever EVER do this again!


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## Chris_S (Jan 25, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> I'm not saying this caution applies to your situation, @KathrynS, but I thought I'd mention it just in case -- There are scams out there that involve people placing orders for B&B products or soap to be shipped overseas. The maker ships the product in good faith, but never gets paid.



Saw a you tube video with a women ranting on about this while she made soap she got an order to send to Holland and she is in America she said she researched it and the scam she has read about they get paid then they claim through whatever company the payments sent via and they say they never arrived so the seller is forced to repay the money or it is frozen in the account or something along thise lines and she actually worked out before she even made the soaps that it was a scam and ended up spotting and reporting credit card fraud and turns out it had been stolen. Just thought i would add that incase it sounds like what the op has experienced with this order hope not but good to make people aware 9f such scams with more detail


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## DeeAnna (Jan 25, 2019)

@Chris_S -- You raise a good point, but we already touched on the scam issue. What the OP is doing isn't related to a scam -- see Post 7.

@KathrynS -- Yes, import/export can be an uncomfortable process. I've done enough low-value exporting to have figured out what has to be done and how, but that doesn't mean I don't worry about it. There are few protections for shipments within one's country, but even fewer for shipments outside the country, especially since package tracking isn't reliable in some countries, even today. (Canada, UK, Ireland, New Zealand, and Australia are all pretty good about updating tracking.)

That said, I have learned the vast majority of my customers, within the US and outside its borders, are straightforward, honest people. They do their best to work with me if trouble comes up. But shady people are out there and shady things happen from time to time, so a person has to keep that in mind.


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## Chris_S (Jan 25, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> @Chris_S -- You raise a good point, but we already touched on the scam issue. What the OP is doing isn't related to a scam -- see Post 7.
> 
> @KathrynS -- Yes, import/export can be an uncomfortable process. I've done enough low-value exporting to have figured out what has to be done and how, but that doesn't mean I don't worry about it. There are few protections for shipments within one's country, but even fewer for shipments outside the country, especially since package tracking isn't reliable in some countries, even today. (Canada, UK, Ireland, New Zealand, and Australia are all pretty good about updating tracking.)
> 
> That said, I have learned the vast majority of my customers, within the US and outside its borders, are straightforward, honest people. They do their best to work with me if trouble comes up. But shady people are out there and shady things happen from time to time, so a person has to keep that in mind.



Sorry i was sat in my car on my phone so hadnt read everything through properly


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## DeeAnna (Jan 25, 2019)

No problem, Chris! I've been there done that too. It's hard to remember all that's been said sometimes. And the scam thing is a serious problem that's worth warning people about.


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## KathrynS (Jan 25, 2019)

So the package is officially in the hands of UPS.  I did everything correctly on my end, and the guy at UPS told me that customs is almost sure to go through it.  So she might not get the items I forgot to put the net weight on, or maybe that will be ok, or maybe the whole thing gets sent back but whatever I am done with it now!  From now on, I’m sending to the person who ordered it from within the USA, never international again.  This is too much!!


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## KathrynS (Jan 25, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> _"...have you all found ways around customs opening the package? ... I’ve been told to declare that it’s worth less than $100 in order to avoid having it stolen...."_
> 
> Nope and nope.
> 
> ...




I went with UPS just at the insistence of my husband.  I simply declared everything accurately and I am done.  If she has to pay extra fees to get it, that’s really not worth me taking a risk on my end.  I got tired of fretting about it and just did it the right way and that’s that.  
Thank you SO much for making me aware of the real risks involved.  I’ll never do this again!


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