# Slippery when wet



## jblaney (Nov 2, 2012)

I'm new to this site, but have been lurking around for the last 8 months.   I have about 30 batches of cold process soap under my belt and I'm having some friends test it.   They keep coming back with the comment that it's hard to wash off the slippery feeling they get.   They all have hard water.   I have noticed it too, with some recipes more than others.   I don't know what's it's from though and can't find any info on it.   I have used silk in some of the recipes, but I'm not sure if this contributes to this feeling.   I also super fat all my batches by 5-7%.   Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!


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## lsg (Nov 2, 2012)

I have hard water too, but I have never noticed that my homemade soap was hard to rinse off my skin.  It does leave a ring in the tub, shower and wash basin.


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## jblaney (Nov 2, 2012)

It takes about 3-4 seconds to get the slippery feeling off of my hands.   Could it be that my friends are not used to cold process soap.   They all used Dove and foaming hand wash...so there's that to deal with.   My soap is not Dove, nor do I want it to be.   I just don't know what is normal I guess.   

I have just ordered some cold process soap from someone I have admired for a while.   I know she knows what she is doing and after trying her soap, I will know what I can expect of mine.


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## AngelMomma (Nov 2, 2012)

I get the same feeling from my high % Olive Oil Soaps.  I just rinse my hands a bit longer.  In the shower I love the soft feeling my skin is left with.


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## Lindy (Nov 3, 2012)

I remember when I first started making and using handmade soap there is a very different skin feel and it takes a minute to get used to it.  Think of that Dove commercial where they are showing that there is nothing left behind when using Dove - well that's true, not even the natural oil layer    Tell them that what they are feeling is the conditioning oils from the soap itself and they're used to everything being stripped off.  Ask them to try it for a couple of weeks (this will give them time to get used to it as well as see the difference in their skin) and then report back....


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## new12soap (Nov 3, 2012)

Yep, most commercial soaps are detergents and strip away all the natural oils in the skin, and that is what leaves that "squeaky clean" feeling. Homemade soap by comparison will feel a little more slippery but that is so much better! I agree with explain to them that your soap is not stripping their skin and ask them to try it for a while, they will get used to it and appreciate it.

The other possiblility is that real soap + hard water = soap scum  That's why it will leave a bit of a ring in the tub. You can use additives (I want to say tetrasodium EDTA? but I am not sure) to help combat soap scum, but again I don't think it's worth it, just rinse your hands a bit more and enjoy feeling moisturized.


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## jblaney (Nov 3, 2012)

Thank you everyone for your responses.   I am feeling a bit discouraged right now. 

The first batch of soap I made was very simple and came out nice.  My husband and I both liked it.  When I gave one piece to my parents, I only got a comment from my mom saying that it burned my dad's eyes.  I told my father that all soap burns if you get it in your eyes!  He said that his precious Dove didn't burn as much if it got in his eyes.  ok, he didn't say "precious" but he may have well said that.

I tell you, that darn Dove soap in the bain of my existence!  I don't use it, but every person that has tried my soap does and it's really annoying to have my precious handmade soap compared to a synthetic detergent bar!

My best friend actually told me she hated my best batch of soap.  Hated it!  I did ask her to be honest, but geez.  My husband and I both use my soap and we like it.  My husbands hands used to bet rough and cracked.  His knuckles would bleed, but not any more.   It's good soap, but I don't think everyone can appreciate it.


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## Seifenblasen (Nov 4, 2012)

I am sorry that your family and friends did not appreciate your soap.    

I have some slimy 100% castile that literally feels like some kind of mucous in the shower, but it leaves my skin so soft and literally I went from having to put on body lotion twice a day to once every two days.

So save your soap for you and your husband.  I believe you make good soap, so just ignore the rest of the the non-soaping world!


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## brandnew (Nov 4, 2012)

Hang in there!! My husband and daughter weren't my favourable critics *by any means *but now hubby is quick to tell me which one he DOES like! and my daughter loves a plain lard with oatmeal bar with a dash of honey! She claims she's washing her hands with cream but loves it now. And it's taken awhile. I had accepted the fact I'd be the only one in the house using my poor ol' lovingly made soaps! It is discouraging....but please carry on and I'm sure some of your friends will come to appreciate them!
We have the hardest water I have *ever *experienced (France) and depending on which bar I'm using i.e. salt bars leave a smooth feeling castille bars (that have cured for several months) leave a 'slimy' feeling but it's on what I prefer to consider, the creamy side!  ....I think it's just a matter of adjusting to the difference.


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## ClaraSuds (Nov 4, 2012)

jblaney said:
			
		

> Thank you everyone for your responses.   I am feeling a bit discouraged right now.
> I tell you, that darn Dove soap in the bain of my existence!  I don't use it, but every person that has tried my soap does and it's really annoying to have my precious handmade soap compared to a synthetic detergent bar!



People are just brainwashed by marketing and all the synthetics they routinely use. A lot of people have never used anything else and so it's difference will feel abnormal to them. 

I make gorgeous facial creams that really do soften the appearance of fine lines and protect the skin from harsh elements (I work on aircraft all day so I know a thing or two about chronic dehydration). My skin looks better now than it did 4yrs ago (I'm not young btw) all due to this cream. But I also know what I make is completely unmarketable because it has a different feel to the [mostly water and silicone] 'creams' on the market. No-one except me would put this stuff on their face. They would all complain about it's heavy feel and how it doesn't evaporate off their skin in 2 seconds giving the illusion of hydration only to dehydrate the skin more. It is disheartening in a way, but I like my skin baby soft and porcelain while a lot of other women my age have very rough textured and aged skin. It'll just be my little secret. You can't undo the brainwashing some people are under. 

Just use and make your soap and in time you'll notice a preference towards it, while others are missing out. Don't try and reformulate your soap to match Dove, you'll end up making a frankensoap with a heap of modifiers in it that isn't what you wanted in the first place. I went down the road of using synthetic actives in my skin care and formulating more professional items once. It taught me an enormous lesson. Within 6 months of using this scientific stuff my skin lost it's tone and texture and I developed large patches of pigmentation on my cheeks. I had not looked so bad ever! It took a year to get my skin back to normal with naturals. I tried to convince other women that this stuff they think helps is actually making their skin worse but they won't have a bar of it. They were convinced they were helping themselves with this rubbish. I gave up but never again will I put anything like that on my skin.

My homemade soaps are rough and ugly looking and they probably feel unbearably fatty to bodywash users. But I think it's the best thing I've ever used on my skin because of how soft and hydrated it feels. I even wash my hair with it now it's results are so good. I doubt I could ever sell my soaps and I don't really care. The other thing also is that some people just have the mindset that if it's homemade it must be inferior. And regardless what your soap actually does they will claim it's just not good enough and complain about it. My family are like that. I sent my mother lots of great products over the years and somehow they all fall short because they are not commercial. I made a special ointment for her dog that suffered dermatitis for years and was in constant pain. It cleared the dermatitis up in one week and the dog has never had a re-occurence. Outperforming a steroid cream the vet gave her. But oh yeah, my stuff is inferior... :roll:


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## Lindy (Nov 4, 2012)

Did you notice that Dove took a run at us and it lasted exactly a minute.  I think it backfired on them!


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## Kansas Farm Girl (Nov 5, 2012)

I had the same response from my sister who uses Dove. She won't try mine, but my other sister just says "more for the rest of us". My hubby would not use it at first but once he did he liked it and now tells me which ones he would like more of. Hang in there, you know you have a good product and it is better for your skin than the stuff from the store. You will find people who like it and will become your biggest fans. I want that feeling on my skin when I get out of the shower - that moisturized feeling, my skin should not feel stretched and tight like with the store bars. Of course, once yours friends are converted they will be expecting you to keep them well supplied with soap.


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## jblaney (Nov 5, 2012)

Thank you everyone for your encouraging words.   I will soldier on.

   I used the exact soap my best friend "hated" yesterday and loved it.  There have been many batches I did not care for, but this one really is a winner.   I feel like if she hated my best soap, there will be no pleasing her.  I was going to use her as a tester so I could come up with a perfect recipe, but I can now see she it too used to the chemical filled stuff she gets a the market to be able to appreciate my soap.  I have no interest in changing her mind.

Now that I look back, I have been using cold process soap for the last ten years and didn't know it.   I would just go to Whole Foods and pick out soap with the fewest ingredients in it.  I didn't know anything about soap, but I knew the supermarket stuff felt to harsh on my skin.  I even bring my own soap when I travel.   So there was no getting used my soap for me since it feels normal.  

I will buy a bar of dove and see what the hype is.


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## Seifenblasen (Nov 5, 2012)

I looked up the ingredient list of the pink "deep moisture" Dove:

_Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate , Stearic Acid ,* Sodium Tallowate* , Water , Sodium Isethionate , Coconut Acid , Sodium Stearate , Cocamidopropyl Betaine , Sodium Cocoate , Sodium Palm Kernelate , Fragrance , Sodium Chloride , Titanium Dioxide , Tetrasodium EDTA , Trisodium Etidronate , BHT , D&C Red 17 , Sodium Dodecyl Benzene Sulfonate_

I also wonder how many people who shun tallow/lard/animal prodcut in soap but are addicted to Dove.   :twisted:


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## brandnew (Nov 5, 2012)

but where's the soap!!!! .....ahhhhhh...but those would be 'real' products!! :wink:   
I know exactly how you feel but we can't get into the vegetarian/animal debate here...I have to make a veggie soap for my sister as she won't touch anything with animal like ingredients!!!  I'm sorry because she'll never experience my 'lard bar' which I luv!!!...BUT she at least likes a real soap!


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## Seifenblasen (Nov 5, 2012)

Sodium Tallowate (from tallow), Sodium Cocoate (from cocoa butter), Sodium Palm Kernelate (from palm kernel oil) are all soap.

Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate is a vegetable based surfactant derived from coconut oil, but tested on animals.

Stearic acid can be manufactured from both plant oils and/or animal fats.

Will be a good kid and refrain from starting a vegetarian/animal debate.  All I wanedt to point out is Dove is neither skin- or animal-friendly.


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## brandnew (Nov 5, 2012)

BRAVO!! I can see I need to actually learn *alot more* about soap in general!! Do these 'forms' of the oils help preserve their shelf life why they just don't use straight forward oils? Or just cheaper?


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## Seifenblasen (Nov 5, 2012)

Sodium tallowate is the salt (chemically soap is actually defined as a "salt") resulted from a reaction between lye and tallow.  

I think they list the ingredients this way to avoid listing lye.  Technically they are correct; because once the lye reacts with tallow, there is no lye left, only tallow soap, also known as sodium tallowate.  (Well, and glycerine, too, but most commercial soap makers extract the glycerine because they can sell it for higher prices).  Many people who doesn't understand soap or chemistry may balk at buying a product with lye on the ingredient list!   :wink:


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## ClaraSuds (Nov 5, 2012)

Seifenblasen said:
			
		

> Many people who doesn't understand soap or chemistry may balk at buying a product with lye on the ingredient list!   :wink:



Actually that's only true in cultures where lye has been demonised. In Australia a lot of people don't even know what lye is, since it was neither promoted nor demonised here. People know it here by the name caustic soda but I've never heard of anyone having an aversion to it. It's just that stuff grandma used to use for cleaning and what-not. _We don't use it anymore because there's better stuff out there._ Lye is sold in supermarkets here with a big label across the front of it that says...._Perfect for Soapmaking_, which pretty much tells you what the major market for it now is. Old fashioned soap here was never known as lye soap (at least not to my knowledge) nor was it known as tallow soap. So neither of those ingredients have much effect on the label appeal. Although most people here are 'fat phobic' they shun anything with perceived fat content, also due to the demonisation of fat in the early to mid 80's. As long as you don't use the word 'fat' on your label you'll be pretty much ok. 

It's interesting isn't it, how much influence marketing has on the psyche of the average person? 

_Disclaimer_ - just speaking from my personal experience of the Aussie market, YMMV.  :wink:


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## brandnew (Nov 5, 2012)

.Perfect for Soapmaking, 

That's amazing because I've had sooooo many doubtful responses to using my soaps because of the caustic soda!! There was a wonderful program on a natural business and their success..the owner was asked if he used lye in his products he laughingly responded that there was no lye in his products....technically correct.....because of the stigma attached to it. In the beginning my hubby didn't want to have his skin burnt.


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## Seifenblasen (Nov 5, 2012)

> It's interesting isn't it, how much influence marketing has on the psyche of the average person?



I think the marketing companies for Dove bar (and other solid detergent bar manufacturers) purposely pray on the average person who has long forgotten what he/she learned in chemistry class.  When you think about it, sodium metal (Na) ignites spontaneously when in contact with air, burns your skin, respiratory system, mucous, and explodes if you drop it in water, and chlorine (Cl) is highly toxic and corrosive.  Yet when you combine the two, you create NaCl, table salt, something that we absolutely require for the human body to function properly.  

While none of us want to bathe with lye or oil/fat/grease, lye and oil combine to make wonderful soap!    

What makes me wonder is, when you look at the ingredient list of a cake, it will have butter, eggs, sugar, flour, etc.  You will not find a lump of butter, or an egg in your cake, but they list what it is *made with*.  For soap, and probably because of American's aversion to lye, they list what it is instead of what it is made with.

As I said in some other posts, I eat lye on a regular basis!   :twisted:


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## Lindy (Nov 6, 2012)

By using "Sodium Tallowate" you are actually stating what the completed form of the oil/fat is after going through saponification which is what is in the finished product.  Lye is not in the finished product, unless it's lye heavy, and therefore does not have to be listed when you are using the INCI terms for soap.

I make a fair amount of products that are made with Tallow and I am finding that there is truly a movement back to using the whole animal that was not evident before.  Of course I make vegetarian friendly soaps, but since I use silk in all of my soaps they're not a true vegan friendly soap.

Marketing is what will create you and if you had the marketing budget you would be able to convince people that the burn of a lye heavy soap was a beauty treatment feature....  

Just on a side note - Stearic Acid when used in soap is _usually_ vegetable based....


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## ClaraSuds (Nov 6, 2012)

Lindy said:
			
		

> I make a fair amount of products that are made with Tallow and I am finding that there is truly a movement back to using the whole animal that was not evident before.



 Waste not want not is becoming a new mantra as the bubble has burst and people everywhere are finding the money isn't always flowing unendingly and there may not be another paycheck. I found myself quite confused the other day. I went to do my weekly shopping, except when I got to the supermarket I realised I didn't actually need anything. There was still food in my fridge, my essentials were okay and I no longer felt the need to stockpile a supply of stuff. I walked out empty handed and went and enjoyed my weekend in the park. 

All of us are conditioned to work a job, get money then give money to someone else. When I don't visit shops on my days off, my bank account accumulates lots of money. How about that...   Self sufficiency hobbies like soaping are great. When I have to plan a soap batch, spend time weighing, measuring and then cleaning up after it. I have a newfound respect for that product. It's had a knock-on effect with other aspects of my life. Suddenly I'm not taking out the garbage so often because I'm buying less that's packaged and I'm buying what I need and enjoy. Not a heap of stuff that clogs up my cupboards until I finally throw it away. 

Sorry - bit off topic.


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## DragonQueenHHP (Nov 9, 2012)

my oldest is a little bit of a "snot bot" she will not use any of my bar soaps (she won't eat the eggs my chickens lay either you know because the chickens layed them ) she will use my LS and she is in love with the face washes that I blend out of my Castile Soap it did take her little brother telling her how much he loved it to get her to try it, she told me yesterday she wanted to try a salt bar maybe LOL


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## Kersten (Jan 10, 2013)

Seifenblasen said:


> I think the marketing companies for Dove bar (and other solid detergent bar manufacturers) purposely pray on the average person who has long forgotten what he/she learned in chemistry class.  When you think about it, sodium metal (Na) ignites spontaneously when in contact with air, burns your skin, respiratory system, mucous, and explodes if you drop it in water, and chlorine (Cl) is highly toxic and corrosive.  Yet when you combine the two, you create NaCl, table salt, something that we absolutely require for the human body to function properly.
> 
> While none of us want to bathe with lye or oil/fat/grease, lye and oil combine to make wonderful soap!
> 
> ...



When I run across someone with an adversion to lye, in my explination
to them about the oil/lye reaction in soap, I also like to throw in that traditional German pretzels are dipped in lye solution to create that nummy golden crust when baked. It helps drive home the point that when used approperatly in certain applications, lye is perfectly safe ;-) I might need to make some pretzels tomorrow!


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## TeriDk (Jan 11, 2013)

Find new friends...can't do much about the family:razz:  Kidding of course.  I get what you are saying about introducing folks to natural soaps.  I moved to a place where most are clueless so the question is how best to teach the virtue of natural, handmade soap vs the commercial fakes.  Hard water here (aptly named Rock Springs).  I gave samples to a lot of folks and the little feedback I have got has been good to date.  Patience probably comes into play.


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