# A small rant with a question attached. :)



## SoapyQueenBee (May 13, 2014)

I've been using M&P bases for my soaps, for awhile, and I can't believe how many people have told me that I'm not a soaper, because I 'cheat.'  I craft my bars, make my own scents, put in my own additives and the like, just like Hot/Cold soapers do.  I don't mind using the title of 'soap artist' rather than 'true soaper,' really, but the mindset drives me nuts!  Does anyone have a good response to this kind of egging?  
It's so frustrating that I'm made to feel I need to defend against this sort of harassment, but c'est la vie, right?  I know my bars are high-quality and very pleasing to my family and my customers, which is the most important aspect for me.


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## lsg (May 13, 2014)

You do not have to respond.  Just smile and go your way.  If you have a good product, don't worry about those who criticize.  No matter how good you are, there is always some who will try to put you down.


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## PinkCupcake (May 13, 2014)

I admire MP soaps so much! There are so many beautiful, artistic things that can't be done with CP soap. I just don't have the patience for MP--melting & mixing a few ounces of this, pouring, waiting, melting something else... I really admire the artists who have that kind of talent!


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## SoapyQueenBee (May 13, 2014)

Thank you 

I use the term 'handcrafted,' rather than 'handmade' on my labeling, as I don't make my own base.  I just refuse to remove the credit I feel I deserve for my hours spent crafting my bars.  I just read the longest thread on this whole topic of argument, and it's frightening how quickly tempers will flare when it's brought up.  I say have fun, live your passion, and call it whatever you want as long as the customers are accurately informed when they inquire.


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## lenarenee (May 13, 2014)

I used to think the M&P was cheating too, until I tried it.

The EASIEST part was making my own base!  After that....the M&P drove me nuts!

You could inform these people that CP and MP take very different skill sets, even though the end product still makes soap.  MP takes very intricate timing, an exact process, an ability to predict the end product and a HUGE amount of time and patience. And scraping. Lots of scraping. 

Oh! And a good memory...to spray all of the alcohol on everything little thing, spray the bubbles, spray the embeds...

It's kind of like explaining the difference between baking an artisan loaf of bread, and a wedding cake. The wedding cake is focused more on the creating an image, than a loaf of bread (even though a great loaf of bread can be a work of art too).

I'd have a hard time keeping silent about the skill it takes to make MP!!!


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## cmzaha (May 13, 2014)

I sell both at my booth and can only say good for anyone that can work with m&p. I cannot make anything that looks good with it, my daughter does the m&p. There really is a population of people that cannot use lye soap and I have a few of those customers. There just is not a perfect answer for everyone. I even have a few problems with lye soap and I make some very mild recipes. It is the soap itself, not eo, fo or oils just the nature of the soap. My daughter cannot use lye soaps either.


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## vidahlia (May 13, 2014)

I'd call you an artist, considering I actually managed to screw up my very first MP batch, lol. So don't worry about it. People who say you're not a real soaper just need to put others down to feel better about themselves!


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## Aline (May 13, 2014)

That is a good analogy lenarenee. I am a perfumer and have spent years perfecting my scent blends (and my thick lotion formula). I got into M & P because people kept asking for soaps in the same scents.

Actually I am interested in finding someone to make CP soap for me using my fragrance blends. I currently sell in one store only because I don't have time to make enough M & P to distribute further, but I could distribute island-wide if I was able to make enough! 

If anyone is interested please message me.

Aloha,
Aline


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## InNae (May 13, 2014)

hmmm.... So because it's not what they do, it's not a "real" thing?

Keep doing your thing and ignore the people who are so narrow minded. 

InNae


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## SoapyQueenBee (May 14, 2014)

Thank you for the replies.  I have a tough skin, everyone has their own opinion, and I accept that perfectly.  I like to have retorts to naysayers and generally negative comments in my head, is all, so I don't have the urge to punch someone in the nose.  
I love what I do, I go where my passion takes me, and no one's going to rain on my parade unless I allow it.


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## judymoody (May 14, 2014)

I would use "hand-crafted" or "artisan" soaps.  This reflects your artistry and creativity but also enables you to sidestep the critics who believe that handmade only applies to CP or HP.


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## LunaSkye (May 14, 2014)

At the end of the day, how many of the elitist have their own business? How many of them us FOs (it automatically not natural if they do)? How many of them know that the commercial soaps that utilize cocoate, kenalate, tallowate or palmate are actually not "fake" soaps but "hard" soaps (glycerine was extracted during production) with synthetic additives?

If they know all of these things and can find the time to say mean things, just remember that they have low self esteem and keep it pushin'.


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## judymoody (May 14, 2014)

LunaSkye said:


> At the end of the day, how many of the elitist have their own business? How many of them us FOs (it automatically not natural if they do)? How many of them know that the commercial soaps that utilize cocoate, kenalate, tallowate or palmate are actually not "fake" soaps but "hard" soaps (glycerine was extracted during production) with synthetic additives?
> 
> If they know all of these things and can find the time to say mean things, just remember that they have low self esteem and keep it pushin'.



You know, suggesting that CP soapers are a bunch of elitists who are ignorant about their product and afflicted by low self esteem is precisely the kind of gratuitous personal attack the OP was arguing against.  Just sayin'


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## LunaSkye (May 15, 2014)

judymoody, I did not  suggest in anyway that every CP soaper is an elititst. I did say something about the "elitist" themselves (this time in quotation marks) because of my own experiences with the type of people who feel the need to put others down or in the spot light. The "elitist' I've encountered have displayed other traits that led me to believe that they are insecure and insecurity is affected by one's self esteem.

The fact that you made an assumption that I disrespected all CP soapers and then used a passive-aggressive move to call me an elitist leads me to believe that the shoe may fit you as well. I do not know how true this is, but I do know that you could have asked me about it if you really wanted me to clarify my words.

Edit- I'm going to flat out say it: I apologize for my reaction to your words as well as anyone who thought my words ruined a otherwise good thread. I simply come from a place where I will take things directly to a person and avoid misunderstanding by stating my perception of things.


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## Chefmom (May 22, 2014)

If you make a product that you love, that you can stand behind, and that your customers love.  Then so be it.  There are products out there that people love, and don't.  You find your niche so to speak.

It is when the bashing begins that I would have an issue.  I have seen melt and pour soapers go out of their way to bash cold process soapers saying that the "evil" lye soaps are bad for you etc.

Sorry, but melt and pour, hot process, cold process, it's all lye soap people.  You CAN'T get soap without lye.  Either potassium or sodium hydroxide.  Telling people that melt and pour has no lye in it isn't right either.

Make a product, stand behind it, make it yours.  I have played around with the melt and pour and it is fun because it takes on colors very well.  In the end, I'm a hot process girl.  That is the soap that I make and stand behind.

We are all different, but we have the same goal to make a quality product that the customers love.  Make your product and sell it without the need to bash others.  Win.  Win.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (May 22, 2014)

A couple of points (naturally!) but before I come to them, I want to point out that I greatly admire the M&P'ers that make some amazing creations.  Utterly stunning, creative and well crafted - everything a good product should be.

That said, the analogy of the bread and cake is a little bit off.  The analogy would be someone taking pre-made cakes and decorating them to make a finished wedding cake.  While they have produced something beautiful, they haven't actually baked a cake in that process.  

Luna, this is why CP/HP soapers may have referred to it as not "real" - not because it isn't what they do, but because the process does not actually include making soap.  Melting soap, pouring soap, but not making soap.  If they make their own M&P base, that is something else - then the process does include making soap, as in the case when the person in my analogy actually did bake the base cakes, rather than just buying them.

When I see someone saying that they made soap, when they didn't actually make soap, it does annoy me some what.  Enough to say something to them?  Not really, but then I am British..................


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## SomethingGoodAustin (May 22, 2014)

I've never tried M&P, but I've read enough about it to recognize that it is a very specific skillset, one which I don't have.  I would never tell anyone they weren't a "real" soapmaker just because their process is different from mine*.  I also don't use fragrance oils very often, preferring EOs--but I recognize that in many cases a good fragrance oil is more effective and certainly more economical.  So I've gotten over any snootiness about M&P and FOs, etc.  As long as it's good soap and your customers are happy, so what?

*All that being said, I can't help but feel that most soapers should try their hand at from-scratch soapmaking at least once, for the experience. 

Shorter version--You just keep on doing you.  Don't worry about anyone else.


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