# Natural preservatives with specific soap recipes?(questions)



## Guest (Nov 13, 2011)

Hi again, the last days i'm thinking very seriously to start selling the cp soaps that i'm making, and i would like to be sure that the soaps i'm going to give away won't get spoiled in long time.
If im going to use any presrvative i want to be only natural and not synthetic. 
I've read many articles and opinions about natural preservatives but i want to ask if every cp soap needs presrvatives or we decide that accordingly to the extra ingridients that we are going to use?

I want to make the following recipes:


olive oil soap (5% superfatted) with cocoa powder and honey.
olive oil soap (5% superfatted) with cinnamon and cloves (spicy)
olive oil soap (5% superfatted) with lavender and lippia citriodora (dry herbs)
olive oil soap (5% superfatted) with coffee (maybe cappuccino with flavor)

Do i really need a preservative with those kind of ingredients?
If i need, is it ok to add vitamin E? ( how many capsules for each soap bar? )
About the recipe with coffee, can i use a cappuccino coffee with flavor? Or it has to be regular coffee?
If vitamin E is not good enough can you suggest me another preservative?

Thanks in advance!!! and sorry for too many questions.


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## Soaplady22 (Nov 13, 2011)

If you are this new to soaping you are too new to selling. Wait - and learn along the way. It's fine to give as gifts to family and friends and ask for feedback. That's how you fine tune your recipe. 

No you do not need preservatives in soap, no matter what you read. If they tell you to use a preservative with fresh fruits, for example, look long and hard at what fruit does in your soap. Not good.

You need to know yourself whether or not your soap holds up over time. Save one bar per batch and see what it does. It all depends on your recipe, technique, and basic knowledge of how all the ingredients work together. 

Vitamin E is an anti-oxident, not a preservative. What are you putting in your soap that you think it will spoil down the road??

Soap may oxidize (get DOS =  dreaded orange spots) but it shouldn't spoil. Not if you are making regular CP soap with normal ingredients.

Soaping is a try-it-and-see experience. And keep good notes. You want to be able to duplicate the good batches, and learn what went wrong in the bad batches so you know not to do it again. Can't stress this enough.

Best of luck to you in your new hobby!!


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## judymoody (Nov 13, 2011)

If you are asking these sorts of questions, you are not ready to sell your soap.

CP soap does not require a preservative.

You can enhance the longevity of your soaping oils by adding vitamin E or Rosemary Oleoresin Extract (both anti-oxidants)

You should save samples from your soap batches for several months at least to see how they hold up over the long term.  You should do the same for any fragrances you use to make sure they stick over time.

Better to be patient than to rush into soaping only to find out that your product has problems.

This thread may be helpful:  http://www.soapmakingforum.com/forum/vi ... hp?t=17621

Good luck!


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## IrishLass (Nov 13, 2011)

SoaperGR- No need to be sorry for asking too many questions. That's one of the ways we all learn. Never be afraid to ask.   

Looks like Soaplady22 and judymoody already gave you some very wise, sage advice. The only thing I have to add is that I like to advise new soap makers to spend _at least _a year making lots of soap and honing and fine-tuning their formula (s), and testing them out to see how they hold up over that year before they even think of deciding to sell. As judymoody said, "Better to be patient than to rush into soaping only to find out that your product has problems."

The deeper I have gotten into the craft over the years, the more I have realized that when it comes to good soap, there are just no shortcuts. It takes research, trial & error, testing, and feedback- and last but not least-  lots of time and patience.  :wink: 

Take your time and ask lots of questions and enjoy getting to know all the 'ins' and 'outs' of the craft by making lots of soap and waiting to see how it lasts over the long haul, and invite your friends and members of your family to help you along in your venture by giving them lots of soap in exchange for honest feedback.

Oh- some things to keep in mind about using food in soap- herbs will go brown and certain spices can be irritating to some. No preservative is needed, but if you ever add any fruits and/or veggies to your soap, you need to make sure that they are pureed finely (no chunks!) or else they will grow mold, and I can't imagine that a  preservative would help you with that- at least not in an amount that would be safe to use. 


IrishLass


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## G. Man (Nov 13, 2011)

I'm confused when people say that a preservative is not needed, but in my reading, CP soaps are more vulnerable to spoilage than soaps made by other methods. Decay is INEVITABLE, but it can be delayed. 
The following is from a book, not my personal experience, but I hope it helps you. 
Grapefruit seed extract, vitamin E, and carrot root oil are all natural preservatives, and also add good skin-care qualities. GSE is also antibacterial, antimicrobial, deodorizing, and antiseptic. Add between .5 and 5 percent (of the total soapmaking ingredients) GSE to the oil phase before adding the lye solution. Tocopherols (vit. E) can delay rancicity within certain soap formulas, and they secondarily offer healing properties like softening dry skin. Best results when used with animal lard or tallow which are low in in natural tocopherols. Vit. E also helps protect more vulnerable essential oils like lemon, orange and grapefruit. When using in an all vegetable soaps, combine the tocopherols with grapefruit seed extract for greater protection. Add .06 percent to the oil phase before adding the lye. 
These are just a couple things my soap making book suggests. As far as vitamin E, your probably better off buying it as an oil in a bottle instead of the gel tabs for internal use.


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## carebear (Nov 13, 2011)

from what book?


> GSE is also antibacterial, antimicrobial...


 this has been found to be inaccurate.


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## carebear (Nov 13, 2011)

regarding a "preservative" in soaps - it depends on your definition of the word.  While technically the meaning is broader, in the personal care industry, the word "preservative" is limited to protection against microbes (bacteria and molds).  In its broadest sense, it includes protection against oxidation and rancidity - but we differentiate and call those that offer this benefit "antioxidants".

So more concisely - in our industry there are two types of preservatives - antioxidants that protect against rancidity, and "preservatives" which protect specifically against microbes.

Soaps can benefit from antioxidants, but do not need "preservatives" the way we use the term.


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## G. Man (Nov 13, 2011)

The Natural Soap Book making herbal and vegetable based soaps by Susan Miller Cavitch. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12165191

I keep GSE in my hiking backpack for water purification. This one is packaged just for that purpose.


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## tlm884 (Nov 13, 2011)

In regards to GSE and other "natural" antioxidants, 

When added to a biological system (ie human body) these chemicals may exert their effects indirectly and may not participate in the reaction directly. For example, some antioxidants are found to increase glutathione in the liver. Glutathione is a POWERFUL antioxidant. So, if something is found to increase it in the body, it may be said that it has antioxidant properties when in fact it doesn't. 

Adding an antioxidant like this to soap wouldn't do anything because the additive can't prevent oxidation itself. As well, antioxidants and preservatives are different. Antioxidants prevent oxidation of things such as free fatty acids in the soap which could lead to spoilage. Preservatives prevent the growth of bacterias in the soap.

An antioxidant would be like keeping your oils in the fridge. It prevents them from being oxidized by oxygen. 

A preservative would be like chlorine in drinking water. It prevents bacterial growth.


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## Pentazole (Nov 13, 2011)

If I remember correctly, it's been shown that GSE does not really have antiseptic properties - the GSE previously tested was processed in plants that also had parabens passing through them, and the GSE was contaminated with low concentrations of parabens that actually acted as antiseptics.


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## G. Man (Nov 13, 2011)

GSE isn't just used on and in the human body. It is also an effective cleaner used to wash fruits and vegetables, toothbrushes, cutting boards and anything else your heart desires. It's added to dish washing water, and dishwashers. And it has many external uses on the human body, skin irritations, fingernails, scalp, face. Also used in the throat, nose, and ears.


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## tlm884 (Nov 13, 2011)

Again, most of those uses are interacting with a biological system. And the other uses you mentioned use GSE because of its limonene content. Lemon oil does the same thing and so does orange oil.


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## G. Man (Nov 14, 2011)

OP- Just google "GSE in Handmade soaps" and you will find many testaments to it's preservative and antioxidant properties in soaps. The author of the book I used above said she extended the shelf life of her soaps by months.


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## tlm884 (Nov 14, 2011)

Did the author use a control soap to compare the length that the soap was good for using the exact same conditions and formulas?


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## Soapy Gurl (Nov 14, 2011)

soaperGR - 5% is a good, standard superfat number.  I upped mine to 6% after using 5%.  Soaps that are very high in superfat % go bad quicker.  The more unsaponified oils, the more there is to go bad.  Your recipes look good, nothing that should go bad.  I have soaps that are a year old and fine.


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2011)

Soaplady22 said:
			
		

> If you are this new to soaping you are too new to selling. Wait - and learn along the way. It's fine to give as gifts to family and friends and ask for feedback. That's how you fine tune your recipe.





			
				judymoody said:
			
		

> If you are asking these sorts of questions, you are not ready to sell your soap.
> Good luck!





			
				IrishLass said:
			
		

> Looks like Soaplady22 and judymoody already gave you some very wise, sage advice. The only thing I have to add is that I like to advise new soap makers to spend _at least _a year making lots of soap and honing and fine-tuning their formula (s), and testing them out to see how they hold up over that year before they even think of deciding to sell. As judymoody said, "Better to be patient than to rush into soaping only to find out that your product has problems."
> IrishLass



Excuse me, i never said i am an expert, and never said that i want to make and sell some super soaps with tons of extra ingridients. I know that i'm inexpirienced and i have to learn more on to the subject, but guess what? I have difficulty to learn because the most of you and the whole internet and articles have diffrent opinions about the subject. I do have experiment a lot. For example at my first attempt, the first lye generator give me x ammount of lye for my recipe. The other one generator gave me y ammount of lye. The one article said mix it at 37 celsious, the other one at 40, the other one 45 (same recipe). My oldest soap is 2,5 months and it is great. I also read Tabitha's thread and i agree with many of that, but i can't really see any danger for a family to buy a natural organic soap. I mean it is a soap, it's not a bomb. I don't see the reason why i shouldnt start selling, i am making only with natural ingredients. Soap with chemicals will be definatelly badder for health than my soap.

Anyway, thank you all for your answers, really appreciate


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## Fragola (Nov 14, 2011)

> most of you and the whole internet and articles have diffrent opinions about the subject.


The internet is controversial by definition. I am able to partly overcome this problem, by researching the WHY behind the HOW.

For example:



> For example at my first attempt, the first lye generator give me x ammount of lye for my recipe. The other one generator gave me y ammount of lye.


The olive oil in your bottle has a different SAP value from the one in my bottle, because the olives were gathered from a different tree. For most accurate results, ask your supplier what the SAP index is.



> The one article said mix it at 37 celsious, the other one at 40, the other one 45 (same recipe).


If the soaping temperature goes below the melting temperature of your oils, your soap can have a fake trace and possibly the caustic lye could separate from the oil during curing. 

When we are talking pure olive soap, that is unlikely to happen (unless you are using olive butter), however, lower temperatures may take longer time to obtain trace. I never made pure olive oil soap, but based on my (limited) experience with other "soft" oils, you can soap at *much *higher temperatures. But don't take my word for it, do experiment and see whether it will explode or not 

By the way, a reason for me never making a 100% olive soap is the first rather expensive and luxuriously packaged handmade soap I ever bought (years ago). It was probably the most horrible soap I ever used. 

Apparently, if used in a more humid bathroom, olive soap can turn to slime. With the little soaping experience I have gathered, I could probably overcome this problem for a personal castille.

*****



> I don't see the reason why i shouldnt start selling, *i am making only with natural ingredients*.



So you are planning to make soap without lye, right ?

By the way, if you are considering to use cinnamon/cloves essential oils, keep in mind they can be highly caustic. I have a hole in my furniture because of this  




> i can't really see any danger for a family to buy a natural organic soap.


Skin and eye damage is possible. Please take 10 minutes to read the following topic  _in depth _:

http://soapmakingforum.com/forum/viewto ... mical+burn

I am saying _in depth_, because I find the controversial opinions from the last posts even more relevant (to the current discussion) than the unfortunate accident.

I am sure other similar cases exist, it so happens that this one came to my knowledge.

*****

Finally, I agree with the above opinion that for me to consider selling soap, I would need to make a number of batches from the same recipe and be able to see how they behave 1 year later.


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## fiddletree (Nov 14, 2011)

I think you really need to do some research on the difference between antioxidants and preservatives, and then read this thread again and I think it will make sense.  

There is no such thing is a _natural_ broad spectrum and effective preservative.  You don't need a preservative in your soap, the pH is too high for pretty much anything to live there.  You said that your book said adding GSE extends shelf life.  That is true.  Antioxidants extend shelf life by preventing rancidity.  If you are using soaps that are prone to DOS, adding GSE directly to your soaps could have some benefit.  If you are using 100% OO, you probably don't need this.  

Aside from all of that- I see you are in Greece.  That means you need to follow EU regulations regarding cosmetics (soap is considered a cosmetic).  This is a link to Cosmetics Directive 76/768/EEC: http://www.leffingwell.com/cosmetics/vol_1en.pdf.  I'm currently trying to begin selling in Italy, and I can tell you it is a pain in the butt.   You will need a certified cosmetics laboratory, a technical director if you don't have a degree in something like chemistry or pharmacy, you have to have all of your recipes reviewed by the cosmetics board of your country, and all of your recipes sent off to be analyzed.  Only certain things can be used as preservatives and colorants.  Anything you use as a natural colorant must have some other purpose because you can't officially use it as a color unless it is on the 'list' which only includes artificial colors.  Essential oils can only be used in certain percentages, and differs for each one.  Many MANY things are forbidden to use as ingredients.  Packaging and labeling is also strictly controlled. You'll need to figure out how to calculate your shelf life.  I imagine tax laws are about as confusing in Greece as they are in Italy, so you'll probably also need to hire an accountant.  

Basically, if you want to start selling, you better want to do it as a full time career, because otherwise your business expenses will sink you in a minute.  It's not easy to sell soaps in Europe, unfortunately.  


Maybe you already knew all of that.  I didn't when I first started thinking about selling, about 6 months into soap making.  Now A LOT  time has passed since then, and it'll be another 3 months or so before I can start the paperwork.  I've found a lab, technical director, accountant, suppliers, shops that want to carry my products, and have tweaked my recipes.  It's been frustrating but it has given me time to become a much better soap maker.  

The people on this forum who give advice might tell you something you don't want to hear sometimes, but they generally really know what they are talking about.  And I have a bunch of books that are 'well respected' yet give inaccurate information.  Just because it is written down in one place doesn't make it true.  If you find it in 10 books, you can start to believe it .  

Hope this is helpful.  I can sympathize with someone in the EU who wants to get into selling soap, and I wish someone would have told me all of this at the beginning.   Still would have done it, but I would have perhaps been more efficient!

Edited to add:  I agree strongly with what is written above.  Soap is not 'natural'.  It is created by a chemical reaction (saponification) between oils and lye (a chemical! made in a lab!).  It is perhaps a step closer to natural than many commercial products, but it is the result of a chemical reaction.  If you aren't careful with how you do it, people can get burned or have severe reactions.  It's not something to take lightly, and if you don't understand this yet, you really need to soap longer and do some research.  After reading many horror stories about because getting chemical burns due to poorly made soap, I always proceed with caution and am meticulous about my process, because I don't ever want to be the cause of someone getting hurt.


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2011)

Fragola said:
			
		

> The olive oil in your bottle has a different SAP value from the one in my bottle, because the olives were gathered from a different tree. For most accurate results, ask your supplier what the SAP index is.



I'm an olive oil producer my self, i use my extra virgin olive oil on my soap. Thats why i superfatt the soap, to be sure that is safe.



			
				Fragola said:
			
		

> If the soaping temperature goes below the melting temperature of one of your oils, your soap can have a fake trace and possibly the caustic lye could separate from the oil during curing.



Thanks for that info, never heard it before.





			
				Fragola said:
			
		

> By the way, a reason for me never making a 100% olive soap is the first rather expensive and luxuriously packaged handmade soap I ever bought (years ago). It was probably the most horrible soap I ever used.



The castile soap that i made has NOTHING to do with the regular castile soap in super markets. It's just beutiful, and smells beutiful.




			
				Fragola said:
			
		

> > I don't see the reason why i shouldnt start selling, *i am making only with natural ingredients*.
> 
> 
> You aren't using lye, are you ? By the way, if you are considering to use cinnamon/cloves essential oils, keep in mind they can be highly caustic. I have a hole in my furniture because of this



Lye isn't going to be in the soap after the reaction. About cinnamon and clove i want to use them in spicies form (those dried that we are using in foods when we cook), not essential oils of them. I know that in high percentages can be irritating, but in smalls percentages are ok in soap. 

What exactly do you mean you have a hole to your furniture?




			
				Fragola said:
			
		

> > i can't really see any danger for a family to buy a natural organic soap.
> 
> 
> Skin and eye damage is possible. Please take 10 minutes to read the following topic  _in depth _:
> ...



Yeah i read it, because some guy made soap with high ammount of lye in it, this is mean that we are all going to do the same?. I already told you that i SF my soaps.


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## Fragola (Nov 14, 2011)

> I already told you that i SF my soaps.





> Lye isn't going to be in the soap after the reaction.


It is possible to have active lye in a soap that you superfat. For more reasons, of which 1 was given above.



> What exactly do you mean you have a hole to your furniture?


I mean that it burned a hole through a plastic table cover and the finishing of the wood (lacquer or whatever it was). Not the wood iteself. 



> Yeah i read it, because some guy made soap with high ammount of lye in it, this is mean that *we are all *going to do the same?


It means that it can happen and  *a certain number from us* are going to do the same. I am just hoping that it will be somebody else and not me  :twisted:

By the way, according to scientific experiments, published at the following link, neither vitamin E, nor grapeseed extract will "preserve" olive  CP soap (in the sense discussed here, that is by preventing rancidity/DOS):
http://cavemanchemistry.com/scisoap.html


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## LisaNY (Nov 14, 2011)

soaperGR said:
			
		

> Lye isn't going to be in the soap after the reaction.
> 
> 
> Yeah i read it, because some guy made soap with high ammount of lye in it, this is mean that we are all going to do the same?. I already told you that i SF my soaps.



Just because you superfat, it does not mean you cannot have lye still present in your finished soap.  Many things can happen during the soaping process that will leave lye, or pockets of lye in your soap.  

I'll start a list...

Inaccurate scale
Inadequate mixing/stirring

Oh, and I regularly sf at 10% and I got lye pockets in two batches of soap last winter. I finally traced it to the milk powders I used in both batches.  It was not adequately incorporated, so some of the lye attached to the fats in the powders and created tiny little pockets of lye.

Superfatting can help, but it is not a guarantee against lye being present in finished soap.  Your thinking that it prevents it shows that you really need to do more research.

Lots of things can go wrong with soaping.  It would be really wise to take the advice you've been given here, and get lots more soaping experience before selling it to anyone.

The Miller's Soap page has lots of information for new soapers.  

Good luck, and happy soaping!


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2011)

fiddletree said:
			
		

> I think you really need to do some research on the difference between antioxidants and preservatives, and then read this thread again and I think it will make sense.
> 
> There is no such thing is a _natural_ broad spectrum and effective preservative.  You don't need a preservative in your soap, the pH is too high for pretty much anything to live there.  You said that your book said adding GSE extends shelf life.  That is true.  Antioxidants extend shelf life by preventing rancidity.  If you are using soaps that are prone to DOS, adding GSE directly to your soaps could have some benefit.  If you are using 100% OO, you probably don't need this.
> 
> ...



Thank you for your information, that was really helpfull. 
I was actually thinking to sell in a very lower level, and not in massive market. For example i know many stores and people on my city that have very interest in homemade organic soaps.
About the info about perservatives in book, i haven't posted anything about books. Another guy wrote something about a book in the first page.
I always try my soap, i know what lye is...




			
				Fragola said:
			
		

> I already told you that i SF my soaps.
> I mean that it burned a hole through a plastic table cover and the finishing of the wood (lacquer or whatever it was). Not the wood iteself.



the lye you mean. I confussed because you said something for cinnamon and clove too. 




			
				LisaNY said:
			
		

> Oh, and I regularly sf at 10% and I got lye pockets in two batches of soap last winter. I finally traced it to the milk powders I used in both batches.  It was not adequately incorporated, so some of the lye attached to the fats in the powders and created tiny little pockets of lye.
> Superfatting can help, but it is not a guarantee against lye being present in finished soap.  Your thinking that it prevents it shows that you really need to do more research.



if someone is borring to stirring very well the mixture, of course the SF it's not a gurantee.


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## LisaNY (Nov 14, 2011)

soaperGR said:
			
		

> Thank you for your information, that was really helpfull.
> I was actually thinking to sell in a very lower level, and not in massive market. For example i know many stores and people on my city that have very interest in homemade organic soaps.





			
				soaperGR said:
			
		

> I know that i'm inexpirienced and i have to learn more on to the subject,...



All I can say is, "Oh, my!"


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2011)

LisaNY said:
			
		

> soaperGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dont say it. You better save those words for your bedroom.


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## fiddletree (Nov 14, 2011)

> Thank you for your information, that was really helpfull.
> I was actually thinking to sell in a very lower level, and not in massive market. For example i know many stores and people on my city that have very interest in homemade organic soaps.
> About the info about perservatives in book, i haven't posted anything about books. Another guy wrote something about a book in the first page.
> I always try my soap, i know what lye is...



Sorry, I confused you with the other guy who posted about what his books says.

But with regards to selling to local shops, even if you want to sell on a very small scale you have to follow all the regulations.  So do stores.   They have to have an official sales receipt and be able to trace their products, and can be inspected for such things.  Which means that you need to be 'officially' making soaps, which means you must follow all of the regulations.  Even if the stores offer to buy your soap without you being official, both the store and you could get into very big trouble (jail and giant fines) if there is an inspection of the store and they find out you are selling without having the authorization.  Making for family and friends is ok, but selling to the public is something else.  It is your decision if you want to risk it without being authorized, but at least you are warned.

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as small scale soap making in the EU.  The regulations are the same for people who want to make a little, and people with giant corporations.  The EU is the strictest in the entire world for regulating cosmetics, and since we live in the EU, we have to deal with that.  You have three choices: don't sell, sell illegally (I don't recommend it.  bad idea.), or follow the strict regulations.  

To have a lab that is certified, I'm assuming the regulations are the same in Greece as in Italy. Here it has to be all easily washable surfaces, including wall and floor (like tile), must have ventilation, access to a bathroom, and access to a sink.  The local health department certifies it.  It's possible to build one in your home if you have space.  If you have a chemist or pharmacist friend ask if they can be your technical director (that's what I did).  There are places in the EU (mostly in the UK) where you can send your products to be tested.  So it really isn't impossible, it's just a lot to do.  

You do have another option, if what is most important to you is having soap made with your oils (I am so jealous! I wish I could produce my oils.  But I live too high in the mountains...).  You could pay someone who IS certified and authorized to make soap for selling in the EU to make soap using your recipe, molds, and oils.  That is what a lot of farms where I live do, they get certified soap  makers to make them soap using their herbs, essential oils, milk, honey, etc.  That will be some of my (future) business because there is a lot of demand for it.  Soap that you can sell can be made by someone else with your oil and recipes, so you are OK legally, although you will have less of a profit.  And you can continue to make soap at home for your own use.


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## fiddletree (Nov 14, 2011)

> Fragola wrote:
> I mean that it burned a hole through a plastic table cover and the finishing of the wood (lacquer or whatever it was). Not the wood iteself.
> 
> 
> the lye you mean. I confussed because you said something for cinnamon and clove too.



Clove essential oil is pretty potent, and I've heard that in it's concentrated form it can burn through things.  I think it has a 0.2% use rate restriction.


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2011)

fiddletree said:
			
		

> Sorry, I confused you with the other guy who posted about what his books says.
> 
> But with regards to selling to local shops, even if you want to sell on a very small scale you have to follow all the regulations.  So do stores.   They have to have an official sales receipt and be able to trace their products, and can be inspected for such things.  Which means that you need to be 'officially' making soaps, which means you must follow all of the regulations.  Even if the stores offer to buy your soap without you being official, both the store and you could get into very big trouble (jail and giant fines) if there is an inspection of the store and they find out you are selling without having the authorization.  Making for family and friends is ok, but selling to the public is something else.  It is your decision if you want to risk it without being authorized, but at least you are warned.
> 
> ...



Thank you again for your information!!!





			
				fiddletree said:
			
		

> Clove essential oil is pretty potent, and I've heard that in it's concentrated form it can burn through things.  I think it has a 0.2% use rate restriction.



I dont have clove / cinnamon essential oils. I meant those kind of powder cinnamon and powder clove that we are using in foods to gave them taste.


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## G. Man (Nov 14, 2011)

FYI, 100% clove essential oil will not burn through anything. Whenever I have a toothache I put it directly on my finger then place it directly on my tooth.


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## Lisars (Nov 14, 2011)

Although I value a good and informative read, I think I would prefer to learn from people who have, combined, made thousands of batches of soap. 

I love this forum!


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## judymoody (Nov 14, 2011)

soaperGR said:
			
		

> LisaNY said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That was inappropriate.  There are guidelines about courtesy and respect on this forum.  You can take or leave the advice given here, that's up to you.  But no need to be rude to LisaNY.

Edited to remove a word.


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## judymoody (Nov 14, 2011)

G. Man said:
			
		

> FYI, 100% clove essential oil will not burn through anything. Whenever I have a toothache I put it directly on my finger then place it directly on my tooth.



Actually I once spilled a little clove EO on a wooden table and it damaged the finish on the wood.


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## LauraHoosier (Nov 14, 2011)

OP I have to say after reading all this that I will tell you what I've experienced.  I've made soap for almost 6 months now I think.  I use T-50 Vit E in my soaps to help extent shelf life but it will not stop rancidity or DOS.  

*Just last night I threw out around 200 soaps that were less then 3 months old. *   Oh my gosh if I'd have sold them?  No one would have bought from me again.  I have soap that was made in July that looks great and still smell wonderful too.  You just never know which batch fails and sometimes they fail for no apparent reason.  

All my experience so far, and fellow soapers here that I've talked to, tells me a couple things:  

1) Make smaller batches to test   What a waste of supplies.  
2) Don't count on it never happening to you. 
and 
3) Never sell if you don't know that batch will last a year because you haven't put it to the test first.

And G.Man you'll find that the forum moderators and admins know way more then you realize given their combined number of years and batches worth of experience between them.  I'd ask politely that you please stop passing on information that has already been proven scientifically to be false in the case of soap.  We have a post on this forum with the link to the actual study and I'll link directly to the study here for you in case you haven't found it yet.  http://cavemanchemistry.com/HsmgDos2006.pdf  It just confuses new soapers like the OP.


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2011)

judymoody said:
			
		

> soaperGR said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, and the irony is a part of this forum (?) but i don't like irony. I asked some qestions and you made so much big deal that i said that i'm thinking of selling my soaps.
Im not just a guy that red the net about how easy is to make soap. I actually made many recipes those 2 and a half months that i'm making soap, and i tried them all in my skin.
The fact that i don't know some things yet, is because that YOU guys haven't decide yet what is correct and what it is not.
Only admins or moderators can kick me out from forum, not you. 
I took the advice you gave me, and i'll give you too an advice. If you love LisaNY so much you should join her bedroom to scream "oh my!" together.


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## dieSpinne (Nov 14, 2011)

G. Man said:
			
		

> FYI, 100% clove essential oil will not burn through anything. Whenever I have a toothache I put it directly on my finger then place it directly on my tooth.



100% Clove oil is also a very effective solvent.
It will "burn" through plastics, lacquers and other finishes... if they are oil based finishes like linseed or tung, when it hits the wood it will travel along the grain and lift the finish for quite a ways from the site of initial exposure.

Also, if you want to see just how "safe" 100% clove oil is, take a little on your finger and put it on the webbing and crevice between your fingers.  I strongly do NOT recommend putting it anywhere more sensitive than that.


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## carebear (Nov 14, 2011)

soaperGR said:
			
		

> Yeah, and the irony is a part of this forum (?) but i don't like irony. I asked some qestions and you made so much big deal that i said that i'm thinking of selling my soaps.
> Im not just a guy that red the net about how easy is to make soap. I actually made many recipes those 2 and a half months that i'm making soap, and i tried them all in my skin.
> The fact that i don't know some things yet, is because that YOU guys haven't decide yet what is correct and what it is not.
> Only admins or moderators can kick me out from forum, not you.
> I took the advice you gave me, and i'll give you too an advice. If you love LisaNY so much you should join her bedroom to scream "oh my!" together.


1- you don't have to like the forum, but you do need to behave properly if you wish to participate
2- general members do help "police" the forum.  you needn't be a mod to remind people to behave.
3- the fact that you don't know some things is because you haven't researched enough or made enough soap.  forums are only one place to learn.
4- your sexual innuendos just lost you your membership.  bye bye.

_The SMF has zero tolerance for trolling. If we determine you are attempting to provoke or disrupt this forum or if your posts have an inflammatory feel to them your account will be deleted an your IP will be banned. 

http://soapmakingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10344_


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