# Customer hospitalized



## mrsmatt0511 (Jul 29, 2013)

Help! I'm totally freaking out. I had a customer have the worlds worst reaction to my roll on perfume (fractionated coconut oil and sweet cakes fragrance oil). She's been hospitalized because her reaction is painful and blistering. 

She's not upset and won't sue, but I clearly need liability insurance! Help point me in that direction.
And, I used the fragrance oil exactly as specified. What went wrong? I read and read about my products-I'm not just cranking out random stuff. What did I do??? And please be kind-I'm very worked up.


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## robtr31 (Jul 29, 2013)

what would help for starters is to post your complete recipe of this one product and some one will  help you with what may have gone wrong.


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## Clemmey (Jul 29, 2013)

Or ask some of the members for private feedback if you don't want to publish the recipe.


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## 100%Natural (Jul 29, 2013)

OMG you poor thing.  That has got to be scary!  That could so easily happen to any of us on here.

I got my insurance through the Soap Makers Guild and it cost about $400 for the year.  I'm in Canada though so your rates could very well be less.

Word of caution for the future about FO's.  They can contain up to 100 chemicals and I would ask for the complete ingredient listing before using anything that is lab created.  If the company won't supply this information for you then find another one that will.  There are too many variables with FO's and IMO they can be dangerous for certain individuals.  Research, research, research.


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## innerdiva73 (Jul 29, 2013)

:sad:  I am so sorry to hear that!!  Indie business network offers insurance as well.  I believe its about $479.00 (U.S.A.) without the Indie membership.  Maybe for future reference just add a note on your perfumes that they are not recommended for people with sensitive skin and certain allergies.  Don't worry yourself.


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## heartsong (Jul 29, 2013)

you poor thing! what a scare! you need to contact sweetcakes and ask them if there has been problems in the past with that f/o. just tell them in a calm way what is going on. include your recipe, too. that poor lady...what an awful thing to happen!


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## la-rene (Jul 29, 2013)

I agree, your mix amounts would help. Is your fragrance skin safe?  She may be allergic to coconut like my friend, or you didn't dilute enough, or there is something in the f/o that she reacted to, check the MSDS.  I know I blistered up when my arm sat in a fragrance oil spill on my desk for a few minutes.  Straight fragrance oil.  Taught me a lesson, that's for sure.

Get the insurance.   You dodged a bullet, that's for sure.  Hang in there.


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## mrsmatt0511 (Jul 29, 2013)

The recipe is JUST fractionated coconut oil and the gardenia fragrance oil or the ocean shoreline fragrance oil. (she bought both).  I used the % recommended by Sweet cakes.  They say it's skin safe! but I do think that in the perfume it probably "sits" on the skin and is more concentrated than the body butter, etc, products.

YES! dodged a bullet. She's been extraordinarily kind.  I almost threw up  when I saw her pictures - she sent pictures of her wrist all blistered out and said her face and neck are, too!  I feel AWFUL.  

I feel like she may actually be allergic to the coconut???  I mean, for SUCH a bad reaction?

omg.  this is really my worst nightmare.  What if it reacted to something else on her skin?  And I'm selling these products for our adoption fundraiser!


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## heartsong (Jul 29, 2013)

may I suggest you forward the pics to sweetcakes so they take this seriously, too?  i'm not doubting your story for one minute, but this is really unusual...has this ever happened to her before?


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## mrsmatt0511 (Jul 29, 2013)

I used less than 1% of the fragrance oil in the fractionated coconut oil! 

Sweet cakes' owner, Dough, called me himself personally about 20 minutes after I emailed them.  HE was WONDERFUL.  he said that in the 20 years he's owned the business he's NEVER had any one even REACT, let alone along the lines of a chemical burn!  I did forward pictures to him.

 I just feel awful.  I don't really think it's my "fault", though?


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## bridger (Jul 29, 2013)

assigning fault is a legal process that thankfully you won't have to be part of. you do have a moral obligation to not knowingly produce something that will harm others, as does your supplier. your customer has an obligation to know her own health factors and choose products accordingly. when something like this happens and the lawyers do get involved things can get complicated and ugly.


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## robtr31 (Jul 29, 2013)

warning labels would be need also as someone had a reaction like test on arm before using?


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## FGOriold (Jul 29, 2013)

To me this sounds more like an allergic reaction (contact reaction) to the coconut oil.  Is she allergic to coconut or any tree nut (almond, shea, cocoa) which the coconut is?  That is what I would be asking and what she should be tested for.


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## la-rene (Jul 29, 2013)

I agree with the coconut being the culprit but only testing will tell.   I bet that's it, though, especially since you followed the recommended usage and your products are skin safe and your math is right.  FYI, my friend will swell up like a balloon with a full on coconut exposure or if she eats it.  She wasn't sure if skin contact would do it, but it does.  With my soap, (coconut at 18-20% and a lye discount of 6%) she gets a nice rash if she uses it more than one day at a time.


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## jean1C (Jul 29, 2013)

I am sooo sorry that this happened. I do want to add my 2 cents as someone who has allergies. For example...One of my allergies is fish...not shellfish..fin fish. If someone touches a fish and let's say...touches a phone, and I pick up the phone(hours later) I am in trouble. Same thing for when I eat out...NEVER go to a seafood restaurant and my husband has given up seafood. If he were to eat fish and kiss me....I would end up in the ER. 
I am just sharing this, because maybe it is not the fragrance oil. It could be ANYTHING. Maybe it is the combination of something else AND what she used from you. Where you doing anything with Shea before this? Peanut allergies come to mind. Or for that matter the client could have touched something before she used your product. 
Here is the other thing....I have spent 28 years in medicine...The first question asked when someone has an adverse allergic reaction is, "what did you do differently?".  The difference could be, "I spent some time in the sun"...OR, "I wore a new shirt/new detergent, etc..", especially if it is a superficial reaction, clinicians always look for contact.   What I am saying from a medical-legal stand point is that there are A LOT of other factors. It sounds to me like you did nothing negligent, but it is a good reminder of why soapers need to have liability insurance.


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## dagmar88 (Jul 30, 2013)

100%Natural said:


> OMG you poor thing.  That has got to be scary!  That could so easily happen to any of us on here.
> 
> I got my insurance through the Soap Makers Guild and it cost about $400 for the year.  I'm in Canada though so your rates could very well be less.
> 
> Word of caution for the future about FO's.  They can contain up to 100 chemicals and I would ask for the complete ingredient listing before using anything that is lab created.  If the company won't supply this information for you then find another one that will.  There are too many variables with FO's and IMO they can be dangerous for certain individuals.  Research, research, research.




People can have allergic reactions just as serious with EO's.
Over here, we have to list the 26 fragrance components that are most likely to cause allergic reactions.
In the USA, suppliers do not need to give any of these, for both EO's and FO's. For FO's, this ensures scents are not easily duplicated.
(Synthetic) fragrance components/known allergens can be added to EO's without having to communicate this to the buyer. 
They are more often than not, as this makes sure the EO's scent is as similar as possible in every batch.

I'm sorry this happened to you and your customer, mrsmatt. My god, you really did dodge a bullet :shock:

I think this is a serious flaw in USA laws and legislations. I can not buy anything labeled according to the USA requirements. I have the same reaction (blisters) with a number of allergens, and terrible hyves all over my body or severe swelling from others.
Sadly, testing is probably not worth it as long as it isn't demanded.
The European cosmetic laws are a huge pain and make it nearly impossible to start a B&B business, but with things like this I realize it's worth the hassle :sad:


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## OrganicGirl (Jul 30, 2013)

Some people are allergic to coconut oil.  I can use it on my body, but if I wash my face with it I break out in itchy bumps that take a week to go away.  My soap was being sold by someone else and a potential customer read the ingredients and said that the coconut oil in it would  definitely send him to the hospital if he washed with it.  I believe it is always important to list all ingredients.  My little girl will have reactions with unrefined nut oils, and she is allergic to nuts, but not coconut.


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## paillo (Jul 31, 2013)

The take-home message for me is that liability insurance is absolutely essential. You are extremely fortunate that she's not going to sue.

So sorry this happened to you. Good points that this could happen with an essential oil as well, and that the coconut oil could be the culprit. 

I have my liability insurance through RLI - the policy is around $250 for $1 million in coverage.


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## pamielynn (Jul 31, 2013)

I get mine through the soap guild, too. But I've heard RLI is a better deal.


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## savonierre (Jul 31, 2013)

Is she allergic to many things? Sweetcakes says the FO is great in soap and toiletries.  I am sorry that happened.


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## la-rene (Jul 31, 2013)

pamielynn said:


> I get mine through the soap guild, too. But I've heard RLI is a better deal.



I'm under the impression RLI is for those who sell less than a certain amount a year though, right?  While Soap Guild and the other one mentioned have no sales limit.


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## kdaniels8811 (Jul 31, 2013)

Okay, I will bite.  What does RLI stand for?


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## 100%Natural (Jul 31, 2013)

RLI = Really Lame Insurance? ;o)


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## CaraCara (Jul 31, 2013)

Probably something along the lines of 'retailer's liability insurance', but I like 100%'s description better.


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## FGOriold (Aug 1, 2013)

RLI insurance will only cover you for up to $5000 in sales per year.  Once you go over that number you have no liability insurance.  When I was looking for insurance a few years back I was told that it could only cover my entire line of products (I also make jewelry) and my sales between the two were way over the $5000 limit so they were not even an option.  I would hate for someone to pay for a years worth of liability insurance only to lose it partially through the year due to an increase in sales.  Maybe this has changed recently and they upped the dollar amount......

http://www.rlicorp.com/Products/pl.asp

A better deal for me was the liability insurance through the soapguild (Handcrafted Soap and Cosmetic Guild) - covers both my bath and body and jewelry lines with no sales cap - plus all the benefits of being a member of the guild.

http://www.soapguild.org/


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## MooreThanBags (Aug 1, 2013)

I have nothing to add except that I hope all works out for you and your unlucky customer. I am looking into insurance now!


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## CCa1892 (Aug 1, 2013)

100%Natural said:


> RLI = Really Lame Insurance? ;o)



Not nice! ;-)
Read below
*About Us*

                  RLI is a specialty insurance company that has been successful for more than 45 years. *Ours is a diversified portfolio of property and casualty coverages and surety bonds serving ‘‘niche’’ or underserved markets*. We operate in all 50 states from office locations across the country. Our talented associates have delivered underwriting profits in 31 of the last 35 years, including the last 16 consecutively. Our insurance subsidiaries are rated A+ ‘‘Superior’’ by A.M. Best Company and A+ ‘‘Strong’’ by Standard & Poor’s.

Regarding the $5,000 cap, RLI insurance is worth consideration for those who barter or do small scale fundraising (church & neighborhood organizations etc.) along with occasional sales. It makes good sense for large scale businesses with varied product lines, to have appropriate coverage from appropriate companies like The Guild. Take a look at what you want to accomplish, research, ask questions then decide based on your needs.


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## paillo (Aug 1, 2013)

la-rene said:


> I'm under the impression RLI is for those who sell less than a certain amount a year though, right?  While Soap Guild and the other one mentioned have no sales limit.



Yes, I think it's under $5K a year. Maybe one day I'll actually hit that


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## shunt2011 (Aug 1, 2013)

Paillo, that's makes two of us...haven't hit it yet.  RLI works just fine for me right now.


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## sakura1024 (Aug 1, 2013)

I have the feeling that it was the coconut, also. My cousin is deathly allergic to coconut and its an allergy that just started all of the sudden.  I'm glad she is okay and I'm glad she's not in the mood to sue. On top of the insurance, you might also want to include a disclaimer that customers should test all purchases on a small area as skin allergies can happen suddenly with no prior reaction history.  if also include a perfume made from clear jojoba for those with coconut allergies ( which is becoming more common). Good luck!


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## MaitriBB (Aug 1, 2013)

From what I've read, any allergy can happen to anyone all of a sudden, out of nowhere.  Even if she had never reacted to coconut before, this could be a completely new allergy.  Sorry that this happened to you and I hope she's ok!


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## lsg (Aug 1, 2013)

I went to their site and it looks like they will link you to a subcontracting insurance firm.  I get my insurance through the Handcrafted Soapmaker's Guild.  I don't sell enough to really benefit from it, but I would rather be safe than sorry.  If you sell make sure that you are insured.


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