# Question for UK sellers about MSDS sheets



## JuliaNegusuk (Mar 8, 2019)

I have had my soaps certified and one of the rules seems to be that you have to print off and attach all of the MSDS sheets for all of the ingredients to your certification document.   I have to admit I haven't got around to this yet, partly because I can't believe it.  I have over 30 ingredients, each MSDS sheet is at least 3 - 4 pages long, my printer won't print back to back, which leaves me with over a hundred pages to print out full of largely pointless info about fairly safe products (the coconut oil sheet I note says you might slip over on it!) that I will almost certainly never look at.  All of this info is available at the click of a button on-line if you buy from reputable suppliers.

The only ones that I can't access easily on-line are a few products I buy from the supermarket, like coffee and sugar which soap suppliers won't supply.  I've just e-mailed Tesco about this.

What have other people done?  I am guessing I need to bite the bullet and do it, but it seems quite ridiculous to have to have all this rubbish in hard copy when it would actually probably be quicker, easier and more efficient to look it up on-line.   I was thinking perhaps of creating an on-line folder with all the sheets gathered together.  even that is probably less efficient than just looking it up on the suppliers website - which you are probably never likely to do anyway!


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## LilyJo (Mar 8, 2019)

Nope, not done that and dont ever recall seeing it in my assessments.

I keep a record of each batch with details of which ingredients and their batch numbers, I keep a copy of all my MSDS on my laptop but also have a back up of it all on am external hard drive and Google drive - so if one goes down or gets stolen or something I can always access the data, no matter where in the world I am. My view, is that if something happened and I needed to urgently access what was in a soap I could get onto Google even if my laptop was at home - something you could never do if you only had hard printed copies.

Only thing I woulld say, if you are relying on supplier links, if they go bust or change the formulation you would lose the correct MSDS.  Its worth downloading a copy for yourself if nothing else!


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## JuliaNegusuk (Mar 9, 2019)

Thanks LilyJo.  May be I am reading the bumph too literally.  It says something like "attach copies of all the MSDSs to the certifying document".  Maybe it is good enough to do it on line.  I take your point about suppliers potentially failing.  I don't mind doing it on-line.  But printing it off seemed an archaic thing to do in this day and age.  I'll take your advice - thanks.


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## Deadgroovy (Mar 10, 2019)

JuliaNegusuk .... I am also doing the same at the moment. I have got a couple of MSDS sheets from suppliers, others I have emailed for them ( a couple of times for one) and they haven't got back to me, even though it states on their website that they are available. The company I get my EO's from (Mother Natures Goodies) haven't replied either. Although they are the cheapest I've found, my next email to them is to tell them I won't be buying from them again!
I buy my OO from Aldi, by far the cheapest for good quality oil and I'm going to email them but I'm not holding my breath for a reply. One thing that gets me is the price soap suppliers charge for OO, £2.89 a litre from Aldi as opposed to £6-£8 a litre. Can't understand it. Even pomace is two to three times the price. 
Still ploughing my way through the EU portal thing


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## JuliaNegusuk (Mar 10, 2019)

Yes.  I'm not holding my breath on hearing back from Tesco, but I'll let you know if I do.  I buy OO from Tesco.  Other stuff mostly from Soap Kitchen, bar cocoa butter, which I get from Ebay supplier.  SK price outrageous!


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## LilyJo (Mar 10, 2019)

I stopped buying from MNG for the same reason - I know their MSDS is supposed to be on their website but it has never worked for me and it always took complaints before I got a copy so I only buy from them when I am playing with a new formula - like @JuliaNegusuk said, SK is stupidly expensive but to be fair, they have the best range of products overall.

I have lost count of the times Ive refused to use SK but by the time I have shopped around and added multiple lots of P&P, its actually cheaper to go to SK. Dont like their prices but their range is really good and their customer service has always been first class.


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## Fiona Robertson (Aug 22, 2019)

Did anyone ever hear back from the supermarkets?  I too buy my olive and coconut oil from Aldis.  I can’t find any ‘official' soap suppliers who sell light coloured olive oil.  Soap Kitchen and the like only seem to have EVO or pomace which would be sad to have to buy if I ever got to the point of selling.


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## Deadgroovy (Sep 13, 2019)

Fiona Robertson said:


> Did anyone ever hear back from the supermarkets?  I too buy my olive and coconut oil from Aldis.  I can’t find any ‘official' soap suppliers who sell light coloured olive oil.  Soap Kitchen and the like only seem to have EVO or pomace which would be sad to have to buy if I ever got to the point of selling.


The answer is no!  I decided to record the batch No. from the Aldi OO and leave it at that.  Also if you use palm oil (I do) and you want RSPO, a lot of suppliers to the catering industry (fish n chip shops etc) sell their palm oil 1/4 price of soap suppliers if you by in 12.5 kg boxes.


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## DeeAnna (Sep 14, 2019)

You don't have to have a MSDS (aka SDS) from a particular supplier unless the product is proprietary (like fragrance oils, for example). Many soap making ingredients are generic chemicals that have generic MSDS. The quality of the MSDS varies, however, depending on the source.

One way to find MSDS for generic ingredients, such as olive oil or sodium hydroxide, is to use the CAS number. CAS numbers are unique identifiers for millions of chemicals. You can find the CAS for many chemicals by googling "chemicalName cas number". Keep in mind that you have to be accurate with the chemical name -- the catchall name of "lye" won't cut it. 

Can also find CAS numbers here https://www.chemicalbook.com/ (can also get MSDS here)
Online MSDS lookup: https://www.msds.com/
Another online source of reputable MSDS is Sigma Aldritch: https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/
More info about finding MSDS: http://www.ilpi.com/msds/index.html

Examples of CAS numbers:
Olive oil CAS 8001-25-0
Sodium hydroxide (solid or liquid solution) CAS 1310-73-2


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## LilyJo (Sep 15, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> You don't have to have a MSDS (aka SDS) from a particular supplier unless the product is proprietary (like fragrance oils, for example). Many soap making ingredients are generic chemicals that have generic MSDS. The quality of the MSDS varies, however, depending on the source.
> 
> One way to find MSDS for generic ingredients, such as olive oil or sodium hydroxide, is to use the CAS number. CAS numbers are unique identifiers for millions of chemicals. You can find the CAS for many chemicals by googling "chemicalName cas number". Keep in mind that you have to be accurate with the chemical name -- the catchall name of "lye" won't cut it.
> 
> ...



Not 100% sure but I am pretty sure that when you submit a safety assessment you have to submit the MSDS for the specific product from the specific supplier  - the assessor will be able to confirm but it's one of the reasons we have never used supermarket oils, because we couldn't provide a very specific MSDS.

I would ask your assessor if you can use generic for oils at least.


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## Fiona Robertson (Oct 3, 2019)

As I buy olive oil from Aldis, I contacted their customer services who gave me an email enquiry form www.safetydatasheetsinfo.com.  Unsurprisingly I have not yet received a reply (over a week ago).  This morning I phoned Cosmetic Product Safety Reports and the woman confirmed what DeeAnna said above.  She told me that it is OK to use a generic data sheet (you can make your own) for products such as olive oil but if it is a specific cosmetic product it needs the data sheet from the manufacturer.  So this is excellent news for being able to buy products from the supermarket 

Ps soap making is just a hobby for me but I have a fixation with safety procedures!!


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