# How did you endure the wait ???



## WyvernWench (Jun 7, 2017)

This is my first post, and my third and fourth try at cold process soap making ... you don't want to see the first two tries.

I made the soap loaves, then grit my teeth for 24 hours to cut them, and now I am suppose to wait another 4 to 6 weeks before I can try them in the bath.  The bars are sitting on top of one of my studio shelves just reaking these great smells every time I walk by.  And ... I keep peaking to check if the bars are getting harder and how the color might be changing.

So how did you endure or are you enduring the seemingly long wait to see if the recipes that I used are worth doing another batch?  Four weeks?_ 

FOUR WEEKS until I know if these worked ????  AHHH!

_And ... what do I do in the mean time as I don't want to repeat the recipe if the recipe isn't what I hope it is but I sure don't want to wait for four weeks before I make another batch of soap ?????_

28 oz. olive oil
10 oz. vegetable oil
6 oz. coconut oil
13.2 oz distilled water
5.9 oz. lye
2 tble. finely ground oatmeal

For the brown bar - 1 oz. white tea and ginger scent from BrambleBerry and 1 tsp. cocoa powder for the brown coloring.

For the green bar - 1 oz. cedarwood scent from BrambleBerry, 1 tsp. ground cloves for the pale green, and 1 tble. dried, ground dandylion leaves for the dark green.

The birch slabs, rusty chicken wire, and burlap ribbon are from Save-On-Crafts.com

_Thank you for reading!_   Wyvern~
_


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## toxikon (Jun 7, 2017)

Beautiful photos!

It's hard to wait, isn't it?

But this may make you feel better. Many people actually recommend that newbies DO try their soap as they cure. Wash your hands with your soap at a 1 week cure, 2 week cure, 3 week cure and 4 week cure. Write down your notes on how your bar feels.

At 4-6 weeks, your bar will be fully cured and ready for proper use. But there's nothing stopping you from trying out a bar to learn the different stages of the cure. You'll probably find it very drying and stripping on your skin at first, but it's interesting to see it change. And make sure to hold onto at least one bar for 6 months or more - that's when soap gets unbelievably good.


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## WyvernWench (Jun 7, 2017)

Toxikon, thank you!  

I sure hated the idea of waiting a full month before I discover an idea of the results.  With your suggestion I can at least try a few more recipes with some of the more 'exotic oils' while I test the first batches.


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## dixiedragon (Jun 7, 2017)

Obviously, MAKE MORE SOAP. LOL. But like toxicon said, test it now! Just your hands.


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## WyvernWench (Jun 7, 2017)

Oh!  Just what I wanted to hear, Good Dragon Sister !!!!


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## Sharryn (Jun 7, 2017)

Such beautiful soaps for a beginner!  Like dixiedragon said, make more soap!  Oh and buy more soap dishes.  You will soon have 8+ bars of soap in your shower


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## DeeAnna (Jun 7, 2017)

But please wait a week before trying young soap in the shower to make absolutely sure the saponification is truly and completely done. 

Don't ask me how I know this -- all I will say is I too was once an over-eager novice soaper.


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## WyvernWench (Jun 7, 2017)

Sharryn said:


> Such beautiful soaps for a beginner!  Like dixiedragon said, make more soap!  Oh and buy more soap dishes.  You will soon have 8+ bars of soap in your shower



Sharryn, I also do basket weaving.  So I think it will be easy to combine the two hobbies with weaving soap dishes between the waiting periods .. Grin!



DeeAnna said:


> But please wait a week before trying young soap in the shower to make absolutely sure the saponification is truly and completely done.
> 
> Don't ask me how I know this -- all I will say is I too was once an over-eager novice soaper.



DeeAnna ... I am waiting ... and waiting ... and waiting ... and its only been about two weeks since the first two batches and a little over one week for these two.  So, maybe this weekend I will do a Careful hand washing test.  

Thanks for sharing your experience with waiting!


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## dixiedragon (Jun 7, 2017)

WyvernWench said:


> Sharryn, I also do basket weaving. So I think it will be easy to combine the two hobbies with weaving soap dishes between the waiting periods .. Grin!


 
What a good idea!


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## cherrycoke216 (Jun 7, 2017)

Congrats on beautiful soaps!!! I don't want to rain on your parade, but most vegetable oil sold at grocery stores are soybean oil. I kinda run your recipe in soap calc app. Linoleic acid + linolenic acid is quite high. Most people don't exceed 15-17% ( sorry I forget the exact number, please correct me if I'm wrong )
Next time try less soybean oil, or search DOS+ soybean oil on forum. 


Total oil weight (oz)44.0
Water as percent of oil weight38%
Super Fat/Discount5%
Water : Lye Ratio2.8 : 1

Sat : Unsat Ratio26 : 74
Iodine85.23
INS115.86
Fragrance Ratio0.00
Fragrance Weight (oz)0.00

IngredientPoundsOuncesGrams
Water1.0516.72474.00
Lye - NaOH0.375.94168.45

#Oil/Fat%PoundsOuncesGrams
1Coconut Oil, 76 deg13.60.386.00170.1
2Olive Oil63.61.7528.00793.8
3Soybean Oil22.70.6310.00283.5
 Totals1002.75044.01247.4

Soap qualitySuggestedYour Recipe
Hardness29 - 5425.2
Cleansing12 - 229.1
Conditioning44 - 6972.2
Bubbly14 - 469.1
Creamy16 - 4816.1
Iodine41 - 7085.2
INS136 - 165115.9

Lauric6.5
Myristic2.6
Palmitic12.6
Stearic3.5
Ricinoleic0.0
Oleic50.5
Linoleic19.3
Linolenic2.5


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## Dahila (Jun 7, 2017)

Oh they are beautiful soaps, the wait is hard.  two weeks ago I made my dual lye avocado pure and silk with babassu oil,  good for face at least twice a week,  I could not wait and used for my face, I was astonished how good is this soap, Imagine it in 8 or 10 weeks.  Wait is difficult part of soapmaking


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## WyvernWench (Jun 7, 2017)

CherryCoke!  Thank you for your kindness !!!!   You answer is exactly why I posted the recipe that I used.  I am so new that I am still at the "search for someone else's recipe", "copy, paste, and print", and "read and follow the directions exactly" cookie baking stage of soap making.  

When I reduce the vegie (soybean) oil is it the olive oil that I increase to keep the same volume ... or do I replace the vegie oil with something like palm oil.

Right now I only have three basic recipes and don't know enough to branch out very far ... grin!

The other recipe I have tried is from BrambleBerry and came with the starter kit.

9 oz. olive oil
6 oz. coconut oil
6 oz. palm oil
1 oz. castor oil
7 oz. distilled water
3 oz. lye

Again, thanks !!!!!

Dahlia, thanks for the suggestions of the two oils.  I am off to search for them online.


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## earlene (Jun 7, 2017)

WyvernWench, what beautiful soaps and fantastic pictures.  

The other good thing about waiting and watching and taking notes, is you get to observe and experience and learn more about how your natural colorants work in your soap over the life of the bar.  Some natural colorants retain their color, while many lose their color over time.

I haven't used dandelion leaves as a colorant, only for salad, so I don't know how it behaves over time in soap, but that sure is a pretty dark green.  Also I really like the set up for your pictures.


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## DeeAnna (Jun 7, 2017)

"...I am so new that I am still at the "search for someone else's recipe", "copy, paste, and print", and "read and follow the directions exactly" cookie baking stage of soap making...."

Perhaps you are still very new to soap making, but your willingness to learn and your earnest nature are wonderful to see. You have all the makings of becoming a very good soap maker! Kudos to you!!!!


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## toxikon (Jun 7, 2017)

WyvernWench said:


> CherryCoke!  Thank you for your kindness !!!!   You answer is exactly why I posted the recipe that I used.  I am so new that I am still at the "search for someone else's recipe", "copy, paste, and print", and "read and follow the directions exactly" cookie baking stage of soap making.
> 
> When I reduce the vegie (soybean) oil is it the olive oil that I increase to keep the same volume ... or do I replace the vegie oil with something like palm oil.
> 
> ...



This is one of my favourite, most-used resources: http://www.lovinsoap.com/oils-chart/

It will show you the difference between different oils and butters and what they bring to your recipe.

For a general-use, balanced bar, it's generally advised to stick to a ratio of 60% hard oils and 40% soft oils.

If you haven't already, check out the Soapee calculator! It's what you'll need to learn how to use to formulate your own recipes and determine how much lye and water to use. And we usually speak in terms of percentages when it comes to recipes, because it's easier to scale up and down to suit your needs.


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## bumbleklutz (Jun 7, 2017)

WyvernWench said:


> CherryCoke!  Thank you for your kindness !!!!   You answer is exactly why I posted the recipe that I used.  I am so new that I am still at the "search for someone else's recipe", "copy, paste, and print", and "read and follow the directions exactly" cookie baking stage of soap making.
> 
> When I reduce the vegie (soybean) oil is it the olive oil that I increase to keep the same volume ... or do I replace the vegie oil with something like palm oil.
> 
> ...



Wyvern, as you probably already know, anytime you alter a  soap formula you'll need to recalculate it using a lye calculator.   In fact, you should run any formula you find online or elsewhere through a calculator just to make sure it's accurate and that there isn't a typo in it.   There are several free calculators online.  Here are a few:  

https://www.thesage.com/calcs/LyeCalc.html,  https://www.brambleberry.com/Pages/Lye-Calculator.aspx, 
http://soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp,
http://soapee.com/calculator

Personally, I like soapee.  It allows you to play with a formula and see how the different attributes of the soap change when you change oils or quantities of oils.  Also, it allows you to look at the fatty acid profiles of each oil to see what qualities it can bring to your soap.  Having said that, don't allow yourself to get too hung up on the numbers.  There are many perfectly lovely soaps that don't fall into the parameters.  The only real way to know what your skin will love is by trial and error.  For example, I like a combination of coconut and palm kernel oils in my soaps at between 25%-30% of the two combined.  Some people would find that stripping and drying; but for me it's just a nice bubbly lather.  Additionally, as each oil requires a different amount of lye to saponify it, using a lye calculator will ensure that your soap doesn't come out lye heavy or overly super fatted.  

Enjoy your new hobby, and have fun.  BTW, your first soaps are beautiful.


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## Arimara (Jun 7, 2017)

I found soaping increased my patience by a lot. I've learned that generally speaking, I like some soaps to be cured for 3 months, especially if they are a little heavy on lard or soft oils. I've also found that my skin is a little too sensitive to use a 4 week old soap without a longer cure.


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## Cellador (Jun 7, 2017)

I'm also a newbie. I keep a small "test soap" from each batch and cut a small sliver of it on week 1, week 2, week 3, etc. to just use at the kitchen sink for washing my hands. It keeps me satisfied until the batch is fully cured. I can definitely tell the difference as it ages, so it's getting easier to wait each time I make a new batch. 

BTW, your soaps are beautiful! Great job!!


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## cherrycoke216 (Jun 7, 2017)

When you decrease soybean, you can increase either Palm ( more hardness, longer lasting, creamy ) or olive oil.( more soluble, not that long lasting, more conditioning ) . But you have to rerun it through any calc they suggested above. 

Your second recipe from brambleberry looks like this:


IngredientPoundsOuncesGrams
Water0.528.36237.00
Lye - NaOH0.203.1388.83

#Oil/Fat%PoundsOuncesGrams
1Castor Oil4.50.061.0028.3
2Coconut Oil, 76 deg27.30.386.00170.1
3Olive Oil40.90.569.00255.1
4Palm Oil27.30.386.00170.1
 Totals1001.37522.0623.7

Soap qualitySuggestedYour Recipe
Hardness29 - 5442.1
Cleansing12 - 2218.5
Conditioning44 - 6954.1
Bubbly14 - 4622.6
Creamy16 - 4827.7
Iodine41 - 7055.9
INS136 - 165157.2

Lauric13.1
Myristic5.5
Palmitic20.2
Stearic3.4
Ricinoleic4.1
Oleic41.2
Linoleic8.4

It's all fall within the suggested range. And they're right, don't get too hung up on numbers, there's still soaps that break the rules. Google " break the rule soap" and that's another recipe to try out. 

But generally speaking, there are some rule you don't want to break, or you risk DOS. ( dreaded orange spots) 

Here's some reading for you. About fatty acid profile. 

www.modernsoapmaking.com/the-most-popular-fatty-acid-profiles-in-soapmaking/


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## TwystedPryncess (Jun 7, 2017)

Greetings!

I see that everyone has swiftly swooped in and covered you on the answers. It's true--- you will always have that itch every time you make soap, but it gets more manageable. Mostly. Just read, read read, maybe plot out what you might try next. Always keep your handy-dandy soaper's notebook up to date with your adventures (before and after) each time you make a soap, even if it's a recipe you have made before. 

Your photos are beautiful, and so are your first baby soaps. You'll get this, no doubt about it.
You'll also find lots of really smart people here to ask advice from. I feel like I  know just enough to be dangerous still just yet so I come support where I can. 

When something blows up, you can read where others have blown something up, either in order to make yourself feel better, or to further cement the fact that it happens to everyone. 

Last but not least, I love love love your name youve chosen to go by/use! !


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## WyvernWench (Jun 7, 2017)

Toxikon, that is a great link.  Thank you!

BumbleKlute ... more great links, Thank you!

Arimara,  thanks for the reply.  I am a very tactile person and hands-on is my best means of learning.  The idea of waiting four weeks, and now with your suggestion of up to 3 months, I don't know if my brain can connect what I am trying to do now with what I will discover months from now.  So ....

Cellador, great idea, after I finish replying here and bookmarking all of the new links everyone has kindly offered, I will go cut a few samples and put them by my sink.

BubmbleKlute, thanks for looking the second recipe over.  I, too, ran it through the calc. But I don't know enough yet to really understand all of the results. It looks like lots more reading, lots more poking around the web, and lots more note-taking for me ... Grin.


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## Dahila (Jun 7, 2017)

WyvernWench said:


> Toxikon, that is a great link.  Thank you!
> 
> BumbleKlute ... more great links, Thank you!
> 
> ...


My regular soap after 7 months of curing is an exceptional soap.  After you make few batches the time will fly between, and soon you are going to have a lot long cure soaps


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## WyvernWench (Jun 7, 2017)

TwystedPryncess said:


> Greetings!
> 
> When something blows up, you can read where others have blown something up, either in order to make yourself feel better, or to further cement the fact that it happens to everyone.
> 
> Last but not least, I love love love your name youve chosen to go by/use! !



Twysted!  I think I have the 'blows up' already covered.  I live in the boonies on a small farmstead with lots and lots of white tail deer that love to eat my hostas and day lily buds.  Plus I have at least one old ground hog that loves to eat my pumpkin leaves.

The ground hog often makes me think of the Great Pumpkin, rising out of the pumpkin patch from Charlie Brown, when he visits my garden.

The orchardists in my area have taught me that one of the best critter repellents is highly scents soap bars, tied to a stick that is about three or four inches above my plants.  When the deer reached down thinking it is going to get delicious hostas and instead gets a nose full of 'manly Irish Spring'.

So if all else fails I will at least have the greatest smelling, most interesting deer repellent in my neighborhood.  I'll just throw the mistakes into little burlap bags and head out to the garden!   Win - Win!

Dahlia ... I hadn't thought of that!  I didn't think through that at some point I will be trying to cured batches while I wait for the newest batches ... Well, Duh!


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## dixiedragon (Jun 7, 2017)

I like www.millersoap.com.

What "exotic" oils are you considering?

I tend to think of recipes in this way:

30-60% of a hard oil - lard, palm or tallow. We consider these to be interchangeable (but not identical). You will find a strong chorus of folks here (including me) that are solidly on Team Lard. These are hard at room temp and also make a hard bar of soap. If you want to make a palm free, vegan soap you can experiment with hard butters (cocoa butter, shea butter, etc) but they are not really interchangeable with lard/tallow/palm so you need to build your recipe in a different way.
10-20% coconut - This gets its own category. Coconut makes big, fluffy bubbles and it is very cleansing. Many people find more than 20% to be harsh and drying. (palm kernel oil - NOT palm oil - is a gentler equivalent).
3%-8% castor - again, this gets it's own category. Castor will make your lather richer and more stable. More than 10% can make your bar rubbery and some soapers say it will decrease lather.
20%-40% liquid conditioning oils - this can be canola or soy (not my personal favorites), olive, sunflower, rice bran, avocado, sweet almond (to name a few). I like a combination of olive, sunflower and rice bran.

These are good ranges to start with. Obviously, your numbers should equal 100%!

Here's mine:
40% lard
20% coconut
15% olive
10% sunflower
10% rice bran
5% castor

In my personal opinion, I think olive, rice bran and sunflower have a nice synergy.


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## WyvernWench (Jun 7, 2017)

LOL! DixieDragon 

As I expect many beginners, having quickly run out of the oils in the starter kit I hit my local grocery store.  One of the items that I picked up because I saw it being used in soap making was a can of coconut milk.  So, I am unpacking the groceries which will hopefully become soap and my Mom (92 next month) snatches the can of milk out of my hands, announcing, "This is exactly what I need for a cake recipe I've been saving!"

If I brought home a package of lard my beloved hubby would instantly assume that I had plans of making Irish Pasty for dinner -  traditional Easter dinner in his family and one which can ONLY be made with lard.  I am not sure that he would ever forgive me for using lard for anything else but his eatable delights.

I love the idea of trying lard, but I have fears right now that my soap making may become a family fight at the emptying of the grocery bags if I'm not careful.

Thanks so much for the recipe ideas!


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## earlene (Jun 7, 2017)

I guess next time you'll have to buy two cans of coconut milk and two containers of lard.  Maybe empty the grocery bag out of sight of everyone else?


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## dixiedragon (Jun 7, 2017)

Put your lard in a container labeled "tofu".

OR order high-quality leaf lard from these ladies on Etsy:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/FannieAndFlo?ref=l2-shopheader-name for food.

and use the stuff from Wal-Mart for soap.


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## DawninWA (Jun 7, 2017)

You could solve that problem by buying 2 buckets of lard!

I have been using walmart's "Shortening" for soapmaking.  It says on it something like "Meat and vegetable fats".  So I avoided it for a long time, until I looked it up online and it's 98% tallow and 2% palm.  It's cheap, like $3.98 for 2 lbs.  I use it at 60 - 70%.  For myself, I use 70% shortening, 30% olive.  For other people, I use 60% shortening, 20% Olive, 20% coconut.  The second one is bubblier, most people like tons of bubbles and coconut oil is good for that.  I'm allergic to coconut, so I make mine without.


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## WeaversPort (Jun 7, 2017)

WyvernWench said:


> I love the idea of trying lard, but I have fears right now that my soap making may become a family fight at the emptying of the grocery bags if I'm not careful.
> 
> Thanks so much for the recipe ideas!



Your family is lucky they have you and not me... 

I'd leave it all out after writing "For Soap" in marker. Just to mess with them. Then I'd start labeling random things with for soap and let them start to wonder...


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 7, 2017)

WyvernWench said:


> How did you endure or are you enduring the seemingly long wait to see if the recipes that I used are worth doing another batch?


Ahem.(stepping up to the soap box):
The first rule of soaping is "Patience". Allow the soap to do its thing.
The second rule is "Don't panic." No matter what happens. Trust yourself...
The third rule is "Write everything down." (scraps of paper; gum wrappers are no-no's... trust me.)
Fourth rule -- Always ask "dumb questions" -- it's not like we haven't heard it, or asked it before!

A good way to keep track of the next 20 batches or so is to print out the sheet from SoapCalc.net (or other calculator) and write notes, comments on that. Date everything. Then keep the sheet handy with the curing batch.


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## littlehands (Jun 7, 2017)

WyvernWench said:


> The other recipe I have tried is from BrambleBerry and came with the starter kit.
> 
> 9 oz. olive oil
> 6 oz. coconut oil
> ...



I've soaped over 500 batches and still find the BB beginner kit recipe a very good basic. I use it regularly.


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## SunRiseArts (Jun 7, 2017)

So pretty!  Meanwhile you can play with melt and pour! :mrgreen:


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## WyvernWench (Jun 8, 2017)

earlene said:


> I guess next time you'll have to buy two cans of coconut milk and two containers of lard.  Maybe empty the grocery bag out of sight of everyone else?



Would that make me a 'closet' soap shopper ?



dawninwa said:


> you could solve that problem by buying 2 buckets of lard!
> 
> I have been using walmart's "shortening" for soapmaking.  It says on it something like "meat and vegetable fats".  So i avoided it for a long time, until i looked it up online and it's 98% tallow and 2% palm.  It's cheap, like $3.98 for 2 lbs.  I use it at 60 - 70%.  For myself, i use 70% shortening, 30% olive.  For other people, i use 60% shortening, 20% olive, 20% coconut.  The second one is bubblier, most people like tons of bubbles and coconut oil is good for that.  I'm allergic to coconut, so i make mine without.



thank you !!!!!



WeaversPort said:


> Your family is lucky they have you and not me...
> 
> I'd leave it all out after writing "For Soap" in marker. Just to mess with them. Then I'd start labeling random things with for soap and let them start to wonder...



I think it would be easier ... less family up-roar and crisis-making ... if I buy three of everything, bring two each into the house, let them get theirs even if they want both, and then sneak the extra into the house after midnight  to hide for soap making.  

And I think that suffering through coconut milk cake by Mom and Irish Pasty for my hubbie are really very small prices to pay for the priveldge of getting to mess up the kitchen on Sunday morning to make soap.



Zany_in_CO said:


> Ahem.(stepping up to the soap box):
> The first rule of soaping is "Patience". Allow the soap to do its thing.
> The second rule is "Don't panic." No matter what happens. Trust yourself...
> The third rule is "Write everything down." (scraps of paper; gum wrappers are no-no's... trust me.)
> ...



Zany_in_Co, you missed one.  Always have my notepaper and pencil ready when I come to this forum!!!!  I was just overwhelmed yesterday with all the ideas, suggestions, helpful hints, and great links that I was still wide awake at 1am watching soap trace across the inside of my eye lids.



littlehands said:


> I've soaped over 500 batches and still find the BB beginner kit recipe a very good basic. I use it regularly.



Thank you !!!!!


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## WeaversPort (Jun 8, 2017)

WyvernWench said:


> Zany_in_Co, you missed one.  Always have my notepaper and pencil ready when I come to this forum!!!!  I was just overwhelmed yesterday with all the ideas, suggestions, helpful hints, and great links that I was still wide awake at 1am watching soap trace across the inside of my eye lids.



I can relate.. I don't know how many nights I've laid in bed imagining soap designs or wondering about fragrance pairings, instead of sleeping! 

And I think suffering through delicious food is an excellent way to get more soaping time!


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## dixiedragon (Jun 8, 2017)

Other tips:
If something seems to be going wrong, take pics and post here!
Don't throw it away - we can probably help you save it.
Make sure ALL FRAGRANCES ARE SOAP SAFE.


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## Arimara (Jun 8, 2017)

WyvernWench said:


> Arimara,  thanks for the reply.  I am a very tactile person and hands-on is my best means of learning.  The idea of waiting four weeks, and now with your suggestion of up to 3 months, I don't know if my brain can connect what I am trying to do now with what I will discover months from now.  So ....



That patience will develop. some soaps take longer to cure than others and a 3 month wait is really nothing.



Zany_in_CO said:


> Ahem.(stepping up to the soap box):
> The first rule of soaping is "Patience". Allow the soap to do its thing.
> The second rule is "Don't panic." No matter what happens. Trust yourself...
> The third rule is "Write everything down." (scraps of paper; gum wrappers are no-no's... trust me.)
> ...



Slightly adding- depending on browser preference, you should easily be able to save a recipe to pdf format. You may have to look up how to do some research for doing that a couple of browsers but with google and opera, it's a print setting.


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## dixiedragon (Jun 8, 2017)

Too keep track of things, print several copies of your recipe with notes. Put one in a binder and put one in the container where you are curing your soaps.


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## soaring1 (Jun 8, 2017)

Beautiful soaps!  It is hard to wait.


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## cobbsie (Jun 8, 2017)

I think there should be such a thing as a timed lockable air flow box to put cut soap in.....I cannot help myself....I have little soap bits sat at various stages of hardening by the kitchen sink ....just little bits to play with cut off the edge of a whole piece.....small ....hardly notice theyre missing....honest!

:silent:



toxikon said:


> Beautiful photos!
> 
> It's hard to wait, isn't it?
> 
> ...




Perfect!!! I knew there was a reason for the teeny tiny soap bits....


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## Zany_in_CO (Jun 8, 2017)

WyvernWench said:


> Zany_in_Co, you missed one.  Always have my notepaper and pencil ready when I come to this forum!!!!  I was just overwhelmed yesterday with all the ideas, suggestions, helpful hints, and great links that I was still wide awake at 1am watching soap trace across the inside of my eye lids.


:mrgreen:  You have my deepest sympathies...


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