# Sorbitol



## Ant (Sep 23, 2020)

For those that use it in your soaps, where do you like to buy it from?


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## shunt2011 (Sep 23, 2020)

I got mine from Amazon.    



			https://www.amazon.com/Glucose-Powder-Gluten-Free-Kosher-Certified/dp/B019HNHS6Y/ref=sr_1_12?dchild=1&keywords=sorbitol&qid=1600877810&sr=8-12


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## cmzaha (Sep 23, 2020)

I always buy mine from Amazon


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## Jersey Girl (Sep 23, 2020)

cmzaha said:


> I always buy mine from Amazon


What percentage of sorbitol do you use @cmzaha?  I see on the modern Soapmaking site where they did the lather experiment that they used 5%. Was that by oils weight or batch weight?  And do you mix with liquid first and add to lye like with sugar?  TY!


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## Ant (Sep 23, 2020)

Shunt and cmzaha, do you two notice a difference in lather boosting capabilities comparing sorbitol vs powdered sugar?

And second what Jersey said.


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## GemstonePony (Sep 23, 2020)

Me three, I've been looking to add it to mine as well.


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## linne1gi (Sep 24, 2020)

Hm, I like using powdered sugar, wasn’t aware that sorbitol was a thing, but I’m intrigued.


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## glendam (Sep 25, 2020)

I bought it at a grocery store but didn’t do price comparison.


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## Jersey Girl (Sep 25, 2020)

Ant said:


> Shunt and cmzaha, do you two notice a difference in lather boosting capabilities comparing sorbitol vs powdered sugar?
> 
> And second what Jersey said.


Check this out. Sorbitol tested better than powdered or cane sugar according to this experiment.








						Updated: Lather Lovers Additive Tests, One Year Later! • Modern Soapmaking
					

In 2012, I participated in the Lather Lover’s Additive Testing swap on the Dish Forum, hosted by the fabulous Shannon of Scenter Square. I kept the samples from the testing for a couple years after the initial tests, and ran follow-up lather tests in 2013 and 2014 before I threw away the soaps...




					www.modernsoapmaking.com


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## nframe (Sep 25, 2020)

linne1gi said:


> Hm, I like using powdered sugar, wasn’t aware that sorbitol was a thing, but I’m intrigued.


Does anybody know what powdered sugar is called in the UK?  Is it icing sugar?  I find the term"powdered" confusing because both granulated and castor sugar are powdered...


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## Jersey Girl (Sep 25, 2020)

nframe said:


> Does anybody know what powdered sugar is called in the UK?  Is it icing sugar?  I find the term"powdered" confusing because both granulated and castor sugar are powdered...


Yes, it’s the kind you make icing with...powder consistency. It’s also called confectioners sugar in the US. Not sure of  the official name in the UK though.


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## Saponificarian (Sep 25, 2020)

nframe said:


> Does anybody know what powdered sugar is called in the UK?  Is it icing sugar?  I find the term"powdered" confusing because both granulated and castor sugar are powdered...



Yes, it's called Icing sugar.


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## nframe (Sep 25, 2020)

Jersey Girl said:


> Yes, it’s the kind you make icing with...powder consistency. It’s also called confectioners sugar in the US. Not sure of  the official name in the UK though.


Thank you.



Saponificarian said:


> Yes, it's called Icing sugar.


Thank you.


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## CatahoulaBubble (Sep 25, 2020)

You can make it by just putting castor sugar in a blender or coffee grinder.


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## nframe (Sep 26, 2020)

CatahoulaBubble said:


> You can make it by just putting castor sugar in a blender or coffee grinder.


Thank you.  As far as adding bubbles is concerned, is icing/powdered sugar better than castor sugar?


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## DeeAnna (Sep 26, 2020)

Powdered (icing) sugar also has an anti-caking agent (often corn starch) added to keep it from getting lumpy. It's my understanding that castor and table sugars do not have anti-caking additives.

Unless there's an additive, as is true in the case of powdered sugar, one form of cane or beet sugar should behave in soap exactly the same as another form of beet/cane sugar.

Jersey Girl in Post 9 gave a link to a soap swap done in 2012 testing various additives in soap and how they affected lather. The test results from the swap showed regular sugar and powdered sugar had some effect on lather consistency, but IMO there was only slight improvement in the total amount of lather compared to the control soap. I'd use whichever one was close to hand, if I wanted to use sugar.


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## nframe (Sep 26, 2020)

Thank you DeeAnna.  I usually use castor sugar so I think I will continue with that.


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## HowieRoll (Sep 26, 2020)

I, too, was intrigued by the Lather Lover's Additive Test and wanted to try sorbitol.  I ended up buying 11 lbs of it from Bulk Supplements (don't judge - ha!  Their pricing schematic at the time made buying 11 lbs make sense - pricing has since been changed by quite a bit so that it no longer makes sense).

Anyway, over the course of 2 days in early July I had to make 6 batches of soap for gifts and threw caution to the wind, adding 5% (oil weight) sorbitol to every single batch in spite of never having used it before.  Figured, why not, it's supposed to be great and I have a ton of it.  Well, that was a mistake.  It may have to do with my recipe (olive oil, soy wax, coconut oil, sunflower oil, and shea butter), but these 6 batches of soap are not my finest moment.  

This is a recipe I've used for a long time and am familiar with how the soap performs.  The soap in my shower right now using sorbitol at 5% (oil weight), as opposed to my usual 5% (oil weight) granulated sugar, is a mess.  The sorbitol soap started out nicely and lathered well (albeit not crazy good, as I thought it might), but after a few uses it started to become mushy, a little slimy, and soft.  The soap is on a well-draining soap dish, so I can't imagine what a mess it would become it it wasn't.  Overall, it's not great, not great at all.  Initially, I did feel like there was a little more lather with the sorbitol soap vs. the sugar soap, but it's not enough to warrant putting up with the sorbitol soap getting... icky.  

Anyway, eventually I'm going to try again but add sorbitol at a lower percentage to see if I can find a balance.  

Anyone have any theories as to why sorbitol would make soap mushy?  I believe it's a humectant, so maybe that is why?


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## DeeAnna (Sep 26, 2020)

Sugar, glycerin, and sorbitol are a few of the solvents used to make transparent soap. Solvents prevent the crystalline structure of the soap from developing as it normally would if no solvent was used. The lack of a regular structure of crystals allows light to pass through the soap more easily. 

As the % of a solvent increases in the soap, it will cause the soap to become more rubbery/pliable and less firm/hard.

These solvents are also humectants -- they want to absorb water from the air -- so the soap gains water, starts to sweat, and/or becomes softer and even more rubbery.

The sweet spot where a particular solvent doesn't greatly affect the qualities of the soap will vary depending on the solvent. That is probably why 5% sugar works okay in your recipe, but 5% sorbitol does not.


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## linne1gi (Sep 26, 2020)

DeeAnna said:


> Sugar, glycerin, and sorbitol are a few of the solvents used to make transparent soap. Solvents prevent the crystalline structure of the soap from developing as it normally would if no solvent was used. The lack of a regular structure of crystals allows light to pass through the soap more easily.
> 
> As the % of a solvent increases in the soap, it will cause the soap to become more rubbery/pliable and less firm/hard.
> 
> ...


How much sorbitol would normally be used?


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## nframe (Sep 26, 2020)

linne1gi said:


> How much sorbitol would normally be used?


I think I read somewhere 2% of the oil weight.  Sorry, I cannot remember who said that.


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## Jersey Girl (Sep 26, 2020)

HowieRoll said:


> I, too, was intrigued by the Lather Lover's Additive Test and wanted to try sorbitol.  I ended up buying 11 lbs of it from Bulk Supplements (don't judge - ha!  Their pricing schematic at the time made buying 11 lbs make sense - pricing has since been changed by quite a bit so that it no longer makes sense).
> 
> Anyway, over the course of 2 days in early July I had to make 6 batches of soap for gifts and threw caution to the wind, adding 5% (oil weight) sorbitol to every single batch in spite of never having used it before.  Figured, why not, it's supposed to be great and I have a ton of it.  Well, that was a mistake.  It may have to do with my recipe (olive oil, soy wax, coconut oil, sunflower oil, and shea butter), but these 6 batches of soap are not my finest moment.
> 
> ...


I’m really sorry this happened to you but thank you for sharing your experience. I have been thinking about adding sorbitol to my soap too but may hold off for a while after seeing your results. Hopefully reducing the percentage will result in a good outcome.


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## linne1gi (Sep 26, 2020)

nframe said:


> I think I read somewhere 2% of the oil weight.  Sorry, I cannot remember who said that.


Do you happen to remember if that’s the powder weight?


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## GemstonePony (Sep 26, 2020)

I've already ordered sorbitol, and I'll keep it's humectant tendencies in mind.


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## nframe (Sep 27, 2020)

linne1gi said:


> Do you happen to remember if that’s the powder weight?


No, I don't.  Sorry!  I use Sorbitol at 2% of the oil weight but it is the liquid form.  The soaps are fine.


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## linne1gi (Sep 27, 2020)

nframe said:


> No, I don't.  Sorry!  I use Sorbitol at 2% of the oil weight but it is the liquid form.  The soaps are fine.


Thank you anyway.


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## DeeAnna (Sep 27, 2020)

From what I'm seeing from a quick search, looks like liquid sorbitol is typically a 70% solution.

The soap in the Lather Lover's test was made with 5% sorbitol, but the info given doesn't say whether that 5% was powder or liquid.

Carolyn (@cmzaha) has shared in the past couple of years that she uses powdered sorbitol at 1% to 1.2% of total batch weight or 2% of fat weight (ppo). Using one of my recent soap batches, a dose of 1% based on total batch weight would translate to about 1.5% ppo at 33% lye concentration and 1.8% ppo at 28% lye concentration.






						Salt & sugar in cp soaps?
					

why delete it I love it made my day :) haha just because, I realized I said K-pop which is not another meaning for CPOP because it uses a K not a C. LOL the whole thing was a silly mistake, and way off topic. :)




					www.soapmakingforum.com
				








						Lather Lovers Additive Test Results
					

Here's a link to a source to learn what to expect from various additives designed to increase lather in bar soap.  The pictures show lather results after cure and one year later.  Enjoy!  https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/updated-lather-lovers-additive-testing/  LATHER LOVER’S ADDITIVE TESTING...




					www.soapmakingforum.com


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## linne1gi (Sep 27, 2020)

Great info. Thanks DeeAnna!!


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## Jersey Girl (Sep 27, 2020)

Thank you @DeeAnna


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## HowieRoll (Sep 27, 2020)

DeeAnna said:


> As the % of a solvent increases in the soap, it will cause the soap to become more rubbery/pliable and less firm/hard.



I appreciate your entire post, DeeAnna, and this stood out in particular because yesterday in the shower I was (ruefully) entertaining myself by how I could bend the sorbitol soap into a U-shape (the sugar soap was not bendable).  I'm easily entertained.    



Jersey Girl said:


> I’m really sorry this happened to you but thank you for sharing your experience. I have been thinking about adding sorbitol to my soap too but may hold off for a while after seeing your results. Hopefully reducing the percentage will result in a good outcome.



It was a learning experience, for sure!  Other than that burst of 6 batches in early July, I haven't been making soap at all; seem to be in a bit of a downturn on that end.  But when I do fire up the process again, my first order of business needs to be making batches using sorbitol at 1%, 2%, and 3% (oil weight) to get to the bottom of things.  

Here's another SMF post that I'd read prior to using sorbitol, where a forum member said they like to use it at 5% - but - they add it to HP soap (I mostly CP) and didn't mention their soap becomes like Gumby.  So that's another mystery, if HP has a different effect (or it could be their recipe, or the weather where they live, or their zodiac sign, who knows - it's soaping!).






						Sugar tips
					

Hi, I'm thinking about trying a new bar soap and adding sugar to it to improve the lather. So, my first question is: is it worth it? Does it really better tha amount of foam produced or is it simply a legend? What are your experiences?  And obviously the second question is: any tips for trying...




					www.soapmakingforum.com


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## DeeAnna (Sep 27, 2020)

Apparently the soap with 5% sorbitol in the Lather Lovers swap was fine too -- at least Kenna didn't say otherwise (speaking from memory here). She was fairly outspoken about oddities in the other soaps so if the sorbitol soap was bendy, I would think she would have said something. These soaps were all done cold process, although I have no idea whether it was limited to "normal" CP or if people could do CPOP or whatever.

I'm going to guess it's recipe related, @HowieRoll, but just how the recipe affects the results, I couldn't say at this point.

There would be mornings when I would love to bend my soap into a U shape just for grinz.


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## Ant (Sep 28, 2020)

Thanks for all of your responses everyone! A lot to absorb here. For some reason, I was thinking it was a liquid solution verses powder. I'll have to see what the usage rate is powdered vs liquid version.

Right now I'm using powdered sugar. Haven't been able to properly test it yet but would like to do a comparison between the two.

Sorry for the late response but eternally grateful for all the information you guys share. In the process of moving and packing is killing me lol


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## runnerchicki (Oct 3, 2020)

I used sorbitol in a couple recent batches, and early lather testing is pretty impressive. I mean these bars are only a couple weeks old and they are really producing nice lather. I cannot tolerate too much coconut oil so my recipes don't register high bubbly numbers and tend to have more creamy lather. The sorbitol seems to really bump up the fluffiness of the lather. I can't wait to see how these bars lather after a few months cure. I bought my sorbitol from Nuts.com and got it very quickly.


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## beckster51 (Oct 4, 2020)

I used sugar in all my recipes until I got curious about sorbitol.  I have to say that with my recipes,  sorbitol seems to bump up the lather much more than sugar.  Although sorbitol is more pricey, I make soap only for family and friends, so the price doesn't bother me.  I order big bags of it from Amazon.


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## linne1gi (Oct 4, 2020)

beckster51 said:


> I used sugar in all my recipes until I got curious about sorbitol.  I have to say that with my recipes,  sorbitol seems to bump up the lather much more than sugar.  Although sorbitol is more pricey, I make soap only for family and friends, so the price doesn't bother me.  I order big bags of it from Amazon.


I just received it (from Amazon) and I'm going to try it out.


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## beckster51 (Oct 5, 2020)

linne1gi said:


> I just received it (from Amazon) and I'm going to try it out.


I hope it works well for you!


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## Mobjack Bay (Dec 7, 2020)

This soap maker-friendly website discusses how/why sugars and sugar alcohols increase bubbles*:









						Sugar in Soap Making: How it Affects Saponification, Lather, & More- Plus, Why Every Recipe Needs It
					

One of the best parts about making handcrafted soap is the “testing period”. This comes after you have spent countless hours studying and learning how to successfully formulate informed recipes that are created with the perfect blend of fatty acids and your own custom blend of additives, not to...




					www.ultimatehpsoap.com
				




Has anyone tried erythritol?  It has a similar chemical structure and I think it’s cheaper.

*eta: that’s relative to numerous technical papers on sugar alcohols that I tried to read tonight!


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## Hope Ann (Dec 7, 2020)

runnerchicki said:


> I used sorbitol in a couple recent batches, and early lather testing is pretty impressive. I mean these bars are only a couple weeks old and they are really producing nice lather. I cannot tolerate too much coconut oil so my recipes don't register high bubbly numbers and tend to have more creamy lather. The sorbitol seems to really bump up the fluffiness of the lather. I can't wait to see how these bars lather after a few months cure. I bought my sorbitol from Nuts.com and got it very quickly.



I just started playing with it and have the same results.

Hope


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