# Mad Oils vs Bramble Berry Colorant Quality?



## makemineirish (Sep 17, 2015)

I am planning to go a little buck wild this week on ordering "premium" ingredients to make Christmas gifts for family members.  I put the word premium in quotes because there is quite a bit of debate on who does what well.  

I have never ordered from Mad Oils before, but am intrigued by a number of their "soap stable micas" that appear to lend fairly intense colors and even some shimmer in cold process (something I thought was unobtainable in a cold process batter).  Have any of you ordered from both companies to have an informed opinion about the overall comparison?

As always, thanks in advance for any help : )


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## newbie (Sep 17, 2015)

I have some of Mad Oils' micas and have lots of Nurture's as well. Some of the micas are nearly identical from one company to the other and some of the colors are unique to each place. Both carry quality micas and their sites are very clear about what is soap stable and what not. You can get shimmer in your CP soap with micas from either place; that's more dependent on the baseline shimmer and the quantity you put in your soap. I think you will have more variety to choose from with either Mad Oils or Nurture than you would from BB. I have price compared a few micas and found Nurture to be less expensive with equal quality. Both are great companies with great customer service.


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## TwystedPryncess (Sep 17, 2015)

I have been eyeing Mad Oils for awhile now myself, but they are a bit pricey and with our rough patch the last few months, I have held off. I've made my several sample mica and oxide packs stretch a really long way, coupled with a few jars of this or that and a good amount of activated charcoal and TD, but I'm itching for a really GOOD stash/plethora of colors in my cabinet. So far all of mine come from BB. I will definitely check out Nurture. 

I think I just hijacked this thread.  :shock:


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## makemineirish (Sep 17, 2015)

newbie said:


> I think you will have more variety to choose from with either Mad Oils or Nurture than you would from BB. I have price compared a few micas and found Nurture to be less expensive with equal quality. Both are great companies with great customer service.



Thanks for the recommendation!  While the website for Nurture is less artistic and whimsical, I appreciate the straightforwardness of it.  Each mica is depicted in soap so that I can choose based on how I actually like the finished product.  The prices are noticeably different as 20 1oz jars of mica including shipping would run $91.84 from Nurture, but $125.33 from Mad Oils.  These numbers are slightly variable based on actual selections, but still mathematically significant at a 36% disparity in price.  That price comes down even further to $88.35 if I opt for bags instead of jars (42% less than MO).  I'll give this vendor some consideration, while I admit the Mad Oils has some colors that I cannot seem to find elsewhere.


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## kchaystack (Sep 17, 2015)

I will second Nurture as my go to for mica.  Carrie (who is a member of this board and posts occasionally) is an amazing person to work with and I just can not complement her company's customer service enough.

I have heard a bunch of great things about MO also, and I want to try some of their FO's.  But I have no 1st hand experience with them.  i prefer to order from companies as close to me as possible to cut down on shipping, and Nurture is just south of me near Indianapolis.  

  Maybe I can work out a bit of my budget to order some this month.


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## dixiedragon (Sep 17, 2015)

I love that BB and Nurture of pics of CP bars with their colors in them. Not artistically arranged pics, either, just the bar of soap. You can really judge how they work. I use BB's copper sparkle mica in my CP and I am very pleased. They had a Sienna mica that didn't sparkle well at all in CP, but I think it was discontinued. 

Pricewise, I have found TKB trading to be the best. But since they only sell colors, it usually works out for me to piggyback some color along with an FO order.


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## snappyllama (Sep 17, 2015)

BB's colors are okay, but I prefer Nurture and Mad Oils for the selection. It would be a tough call if I had to pick between them though.

I love that Nurture shows you how colors will look in gelled CP. Having the CP color guide makes it so easy to compare all their greens next to one another.
Mad Oils has some more modern/adult colors that the others just don't seem to have...  if that makes sense.  

I love that both come in reusable jars... MO by default and NSS if you pay the difference. Both are reasonable with shipping.  MO often has (free shipping over $) or flat rate shipping. Both have excellent customer service and normally ship things incredibly quickly unless there is a big sale going on.


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## shunt2011 (Sep 17, 2015)

Another Nurture fan here. Her colorants perform as described and their CS is hands down one of the best.


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## not_ally (Sep 17, 2015)

I have yet to order from Nurture, I had orders in the cart during both of the sales, and when they crashed I just never got back round to it.  And I have so many micas now that although I really want to try them I feel guilty.  MadOils micas I like a lot.  Good saturation, lovely colors.  Brambleberry, just OK.


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## snappyllama (Sep 17, 2015)

Personal favorites: MO Peacock and NSS Teal. Both are fantastic and totally different to my eyes. The MO Peacock can go from jewel tones to a groovy nordic blue with a little TD.


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## makemineirish (Sep 17, 2015)

kchaystack said:


> I will second Nurture as my go to for mica.  Carrie (who is a member of this board and posts occasionally) is an amazing person to work with and I just can not complement her company's customer service enough.
> 
> I have heard a bunch of great things about MO also, and I want to try some of their FO's.  But I have no 1st hand experience with them.  i prefer to order from companies as close to me as possible to cut down on shipping, and Nurture is just south of me near Indianapolis.
> 
> Maybe I can work out a bit of my budget to order some this month.



I really appreciate the feedback an am happy to pay a little more for the convenience of effective customer service.  It is a huge component of the decision as to where I choose to spend my money.  I originally stumbled onto Mad Oils micas when poster comments about certain fragrance oils intrigued me.  One of my intended purchases for "premium" ingredients is selection of scents from Sweet Cakes to assuage my curiosity as to whether the hype is justified.  However, Mad Oils seems to get a few nods lately for the "best" version of some staples.

I do not sell, which is a blessing and a curse.  It means that I am not inclined be that frugal about ingredient costs as I am not concerned about profit margins or placing giant orders.  However, it also means that I want to be a bit more selective since I am going to be stuck with the results for months and months (just me and the SO lathering up here).  That's a long time to regret an offputting fragrance or disappointing color.


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## Spice (Sep 17, 2015)

snappyllama said:


> BB's colors are okay, but I prefer Nurture and Mad Oils for the selection. It would be a tough call if I had to pick between them though.
> 
> I love that Nurture shows you how colors will look in gelled CP. Having the CP color guide makes it so easy to compare all their greens next to one another.
> Mad Oils has some more modern/adult colors that the others just don't seem to have...  if that makes sense.
> ...



totally off subject, I went to see about Nature, and found lip balm labels from Avery. I have been looking for something that was inexpensive and I found the Avery number at Nature. This is great!


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## makemineirish (Sep 17, 2015)

snappyllama said:


> I love that Nurture shows you how colors will look in gelled CP. Having the CP color guide makes it so easy to compare all their greens next to one another.
> Mad Oils has some more modern/adult colors that the others just don't seem to have...  if that makes sense.
> 
> I love that both come in reusable jars... MO by default and NSS if you pay the difference. Both are reasonable with shipping.  MO often has (free shipping over $) or flat rate shipping. Both have excellent customer service and normally ship things incredibly quickly unless there is a big sale going on.



These are all important criteria for me.  I acknowledge that Nurture was less expensive after reviewing the site.  However, I was really interested in some of the Mad Oils fragrances and stumbled onto the micas by happenstance.  As a result, I am probably going to order from MO in the interest of paying a single shipping fee (or none at all if I spend enough money).  There are just more colors that I am excited about (maybe because they are more grown-up ).  

I still need to place an order through Bramble Berry for some molds, oils, butters and a couple of scents.  I am still vacillating on a Sweet Cakes purchase.  However, it sounds like everyone is pretty consistent with their votes that BB's colorants are a bit lacking in comparison.  Therefore, I am up to at least two shipping fees, maybe three, if I go ahead an order from Sweet Cakes as well :-x


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## rparrny (Sep 17, 2015)

snappyllama said:


> BB's colors are okay, but I prefer Nurture and Mad Oils for the selection. It would be a tough call if I had to pick between them though.
> 
> I love that Nurture shows you how colors will look in gelled CP. Having the CP color guide makes it so easy to compare all their greens next to one another.
> Mad Oils has some more modern/adult colors that the others just don't seem to have...  if that makes sense.
> ...


I just was on their site and I love the way they organize things!  CP soaps displayed with the color instead of a chart...lots of reviews and those sample packs just make my mouth water.  I have only used 4 colors so far CC woodland green, CC a blue that I can't read the label anymore, TD white and black.  Now that I'm having so much fun with the swirls I really want to play with more color.  I also love that you can order in bags to save on shipping.  I am a canning maniac so I have cases of canning jars around to store them...
Enablers! A plot to corrupt us all I tell you!


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## makemineirish (Sep 17, 2015)

*Mad Oils Update*

I called the company today to ask whether or not they offered sniffies as I have been mightily impressed with Bramble Berry's generosity in this regard.  Jo was incredibly helpful and spent enough time on the phone with me to make her a saint and me...a bit of an asshat.  

Nonetheless, information was revealed to me that is very exciting and I thought to pass along to those of you that have been so helpful to me.  First, they are apparently in the process of building a new website that will be available soon depicting their micas in soaps at different concentrations.  This should make my selection process MUCH easier.  

Jo was empathetic to my apprehension over investing money in a bunch of fragrance samples to find what I like.  Let's be real; descriptions are helpful but not the whole story.  Anyone that has ever read a wine bottle label or perfume ad knows that they ALL sound awesome, but sweet is a matter of degree and notes a manner of proportion (Am I the only one disappointed that Jo Malone's LBM was heavier on the lime than the mandarin?).  

I explained that I often do not need enough for a test batch as there are usually sufficient notes on acceleration, discoloration, morphing, fading, etc here and on Soap Scent Review.  What I need is a cost-effective means of just smelling the the options.  I am fine if you used a smidgen of musk to anchor more ephemeral components, but am not on board with anything strongly masculine or animalistic.  Whether or not a floral is "old" or "fresh" is a pretty personal distinction.  Jo is now considering adding an option to the website where you can receive sniffies for a nominal fee to ascertain what you want to purchase!  I wish I could get Sweet Cakes to do this (especially with their $25+ shipping cost).

I have not yet talked to NSS, primarily because I am fairly decided now.  They sound like a phenomenal company, but it's not necessary to tack on an additional shipping fee (given that there are scents from MO that I want to try).  I will order my basics from Bramble Berry, my colorants and some fragrances from Mad Oils, and am still a bit on the fence about Sweet Cakes.  Some of their options are really promising, but its hard to put together a cart without spending a ridiculous amount on samples...and difficult to commit to larger bottles without knowing if I will like them.  Factor in the shipping and its tempting to stick with the fragrances available through MO and BB, who will send me sniffies prior to purchase.  (I am desperately restraining myself from starting a new thread on this as there is an old one...but it IS old.) Now, I just need to try to edit a bit :x

Thanks for all the help!http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## soapswirl (Sep 17, 2015)

I love mad oils micas, to the point i have paid for them to deliver to the UK (crazy i know). Their brights mica set is a great buy - i havent found any over here which give the same vibrant colours in cp soap.


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## makemineirish (Sep 17, 2015)

soapswirl said:


> I love mad oils micas, to the point i have paid for them to deliver to the UK (crazy i know). Their brights mica set is a great buy - i havent found any over here which give the same vibrant colours in cp soap.



I would have totally been on board for the brights set.  However, the site showed it as being sold out.  That's probably something that I should have asked about during my ridiculously long discussion with customer service.  Thanks for the recomendation.


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## Cosmo (Sep 18, 2015)

This thread is great! This is Carrie from Nurture and I would love to get some feedback if that is alright. A couple of questions... When you say more adult colors, what do you mean? I don't think MO sells anything we don't, or at least very few colors. We get them from the same place. Our site has been a constant work in progress and I was wondering if there is anything any of you would like to see changes up or done differently to help with your shopping experience. I know there's a lot of places to choose from now and would sincerely appreciate any feedback you can give!


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## not_ally (Sep 18, 2015)

Carrie, I think you are in pretty good shape!  Nurture is probably the place I see most recommended, by far, for micas.  Like I said, I really want to try them someday (espec. the Vibrants) and will, when the itch gets strong enough, or when you have another sale, but right now with my 150+ micas and budget staring at me accusingly I can't justify it.  I will though, promise, probably sooner rather than later.  

I am grateful to both you and Jo at Mad Oils for having great customer service.  I know the website problems during the sales were awful, and I thought you did an amazing job handling them.  I really trust both of you to sell great products that you know are good because you personally work hard on using/testing them.  You both are among the few suppliers that I feel comfortable that when I buy something, I am not taking a risk.


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## Cosmo (Sep 18, 2015)

Thank you not_ally! I know I'm personally so passionate about the business I'm in, and sometimes my viewpoint will differ from that of a customer or other personalities because I personally LOVE straightforward when it comes to online shopping. I do miss some of the creative flair, though, and I think MO has lots of it! I also love TKB as they are so experienced (Kaila Westerman really knows color) and they show each color in soap at different concentrations just like was mentioned earlier in the thread. Are these kinds of pictures something that you'd like to see? Thank you for the feedback! :smile:


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## not_ally (Sep 18, 2015)

I like TKB colors, as well, and I think it is great that you are generous about talking about other sellers.  I am one of those people that kind of wings it on adding micas based on what I see in the batter, so don't necessarily pay attention to concentration levels (ie; I assume that if something is shown on a site it is at a good, dark/deep concentration level and that if I want it to be lighter I can add less), but it seems like a good idea.  Like all of us soapy nuts, I love poring over the pictures of products in use, so more are better than fewer!  I do usually usually only buy micas if I can see at least one picture of them in use in CP so I have some sense of saturation/richness/color/morphing.  

TKB has one blue that morphs to a color I really like, they had notes that it did (so no surprises), I was happy when I emailed them and they told me that it morphed to that color consistently


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## snappyllama (Sep 18, 2015)

Cosmo said:


> This thread is great! This is Carrie from Nurture and I would love to get some feedback if that is alright. A couple of questions... When you say more adult colors, what do you mean? I don't think MO sells anything we don't, or at least very few colors. We get them from the same place. Our site has been a constant work in progress and I was wondering if there is anything any of you would like to see changes up or done differently to help with your shopping experience. I know there's a lot of places to choose from now and would sincerely appreciate any feedback you can give!



Hi Carrie,

You always have such a fantastic outlook on customer service.  I think we all appreciate that - you have a lot of devoted fans here!  Your site set-up is great. It's easy to find what I'm looking for, and I really appreciate how you've shown your micas in CP. It takes the guess work out of buying and using them.

About the only wishlist thing I would have is add to cart button on the wish list. I'm a shopper that tends to make wishlists over an extended period of time who then pulls the trigger when it gets big enough. That's not a big deal though.

The colors I'm thinking of from MO are ones like flashdance, spicy tomato, tangerine dream, mermaid, or 3 olive martini.  They are a little umm retro in hue. Maybe that's what I mean by adult. Midcentury modern?? 50s/60s/70s/80s?? I don't think I'm making any sense lol...

You've got so many fantastic colors that I'm not sure if you've started carrying those. I'm a huge fan of your teal, vibrance purple, klein blue, neons, snowflake sparkle, and the list goes on!


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## newbie (Sep 18, 2015)

I have MO 3 Olive Martini and to my eyes it is pretty indistinguishable from N Khaki Yellow, MO Flashdance is pretty equal to N Red Violet, and MO tangerine Dream is very close to N Desert Sunset. I don't know about the others. Most of what I have from MO I put right up against colors from N and they are pretty much the same but MO could take some micas and blend them to make some of their own colors. Don't know.

I don't pay attention to concentrations either but I can see where having a gradient shown, with set concentrations, would help some soapers. I also like the idea of having a button for the wishlist to transfer those items directly to the shopping cart because it is a royal pain to go back and forth to make sure you got everything from the wishlist into the cart. 

We are lucky soapers to have TKB, Nurture, Mad Oils, The Conservatorie and other companies to get colorants from.

One thing I very very very much want are deep rich colors, like a good deep intense burgundy, a deep rich violet, a deep rich blueberry purple. When I try to make them, they look dulled, I think from the black I use to deepen the colors.


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## Cosmo (Sep 18, 2015)

Not_ally, there's some things about other suppliers I really admire, and of course there are things I'm not so fond of.  I do look at others' sites though! I like to know what's going on. 

Snappyllama, I have a wishlist for my wishlist! Ha! I would like it to be easier to access and will code an add to cart button in someday. It's kind of weird that it's not there by default. I have bought two other add to cart modules for my site for a pretty good fee and didn't like either of them, so until I can code it the way I want it t's going to be a little clunky.

Also, our Red Violet is the same as Flashdance, 3 Olive Martini is Khaki Yellow, and Tangerine Dream is Desert Sunset.  I think the pictures may look different but they are the same colors.

Edited to add Newbie beat me to the color comparison. You're right on Newbie!!!


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## nsmar4211 (Sep 18, 2015)

I haven't gotten very far into micas, but I do have a comment for Carrie in regards to the website:

Right now the mica's are in A-Z order... I would like to see a sorting option that shows the colors together. Or maybe even just a nice jpg on a page showing them together. By together, I mean all of the blues, all of the greens, etc...maybe laid out in rainbow order. By the time I've scrolled/clicked to the next page I've forgotten what the other color looked like and its harder to make my wishlist .

Anddddd now my wishlist just got longer.... enablers!!


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## Cosmo (Sep 18, 2015)

Hi nsma4211! Do you mean something like this? https://nurturesoap.com/content/6-cp-color-guide

I know there's a few colors yet to add but I grouped the colors together so it makes it easier to see them side-by-side. Do you think it would also be helpful if I linked each picture to the product page for that color? I can do that!


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## not_ally (Sep 18, 2015)

I *definitely* agree about the transferring the wish list to the cart in one fell swoop (that is what you guys are talking about, right?).  I almost always keep wish-lists going with several different companies and wait until they get big enough that I can save on shipping.  It is kind of a pain to have to individually transfer items when you have 15-20 of them.  

I also agree w/nsmar's liking for having colors grouped together (I can't remember if that is an option on your site.)  At this point, if I am buying micas I want to look for a particular color, so having to page through all of them sometimes takes time that I do not have.


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## nsmar4211 (Sep 18, 2015)

Aha, I couldn't find that! Either I'm blind or I'm blind or oh there it is....maybe link to that at the bottom of the mica pages?

I was thinking, put them in order darkest to lightest . And linking them to their page is a great idea (and gives the website more link juice).  On my screen they are huge pictures (great for tablets I bet) so I have to scroll up and down. 

BTW, I love that the sample soaps are obviously real because you can see the flaws . Maybe put the size of the sample and how much mica was used? I know , want the world right . 


LOL Maybe we should start a "critique this website" thread for you...


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## dibbles (Sep 18, 2015)

Cosmo said:


> Thank you not_ally! I know I'm personally so passionate about the business I'm in, and sometimes my viewpoint will differ from that of a customer or other personalities because I personally LOVE straightforward when it comes to online shopping. I do miss some of the creative flair, though, and I think MO has lots of it! I also love TKB as they are so experienced (Kaila Westerman really knows color) and they show each color in soap at different concentrations just like was mentioned earlier in the thread. Are these kinds of pictures something that you'd like to see? Thank you for the feedback! :smile:



Hi Carrie! First, I have to say that what I have ordered from Nurture I have loved. I really like how you show what your micas look like in soap. I would also love to see performance at different concentration levels. I am still fairly new to color use, and have stuck to ordering sample sizes, but will be ordering larger sizes once I figure out my favorites.


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## Cosmo (Sep 18, 2015)

Yes, not_ally, that is exactly what I mean about the wishlist! Nsmar4211, I love being critiqued, and I think your suggestions are great! Next week I will start implementing some of the ideas given here. I look forward to it!


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## Cosmo (Sep 18, 2015)

I just did some poking around on the wishlist. If you highlight the permalink and open it in a new tab you can add each item to your cart from there. Not ideal but a workaround for now for those who have a lot of items on their list.


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## makemineirish (Sep 18, 2015)

Cosmo said:


> This thread is great! This is Carrie from Nurture  and I would love to get some feedback if that is alright. A couple of  questions... When you say more adult colors, what do you mean? I don't  think MO sells anything we don't, or at least very few colors. We get  them from the same place. Our site has been a constant work in progress  and I was wondering if there is anything any of you would like to see  changes up or done differently to help with your shopping experience. I  know there's a lot of places to choose from now and would sincerely  appreciate any feedback you can give!



I am the OP and  have yet to order from you or MO, while I am intrigued by both.  You get  high marks for customer service.  This is the first time that a company  has contacted me before I call 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I  love that you include photos of the mica in soap, but would appreciate seeing them in different concentrations.  I  am one of those annoying people that always has a specific shade of any  color in mind (coral pink, champagne gold, slate blue, etc).  Seeing the different concentrations helps me with two  things:
1) It helps determine whether I need two different shades of a color or if a larger quantity of a single pigment can pull double duty.
2) If the amounts used / concentrations are given, I can be a little more accurate about the amount required for my purposes.

While  seeing the mica in soap is key, I also appreciate the photo of it  straight.  I did discover that I could check out many of the micas on your site this  way by finding the sample set photos.  I like to see what colors are in  it that sometime disappear in cold process for other purposes (decorative features of my soap).

I  am fine with importing a wish list line by line, but really appreciate  it when websites just save my shopping cart in my account.  I tend to  put things that I am not even sure that I want on my wish list, using it  more of a "to be looked at later" list.  I add everything I am thinking  of purchasing to my shopping cart and then edit down to a more  reasonable purchase ($300/ea to four different vendors seems a bit much  for Christmas gifts 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




).  It is sometimes nice not to have to do that all in one sitting.

I  concur with a previous statement that it is nice to view shades of the  same color side by side to pick my favorite version of each.  However, I already figured out that I could do this on your site by simply selecting the color group from the drop-down options after selecting "Colorants" from the left-hand menu :clap:  

When I think of the "adult" designation used earlier in this thread, I am probably envisioning the colors Tempest, Olive You, Hot Man on a Tin Roof, Magic Beans, Pink Frosted Copper, and Satin Grey Pillowcase.  They are all the kinds of colors that I would actually consider using in an eyeshadow palette (not my current plan, but part of my subconscious gravitational pull to them).  This is obviously an entirely subjective perspective as demonstrated by the very different colors picked by another poster. 

I  appreciate that you also offer jars and clearly have great customer  service.  As I stated in an earlier post, you are more cost-efficient.  It's possible that I just did not recognize that some of the micas are  the same between vendors.  Feel free to let me know what the same  products are called on your site.  The ones that I was looking at on  MO's site are:

Blue Velvet 
Preppy Blue
Mermaid 
Peacock
Tahitian Teal
*Olive You
3 Olive Martini (Khaki Yellow)
The Maniacal Pea
Tangerine Dream (Desert Sunset)
Grape Nehi
*Tempest
Pink Frosted Copper
Hot Man on a Tin Roof
Summer Bronze
Goldfinger
Bright Yellow Raincoat
Lemon Cupcake
Macy Gray
Satin Grey Pillowcase
Magic Beans
Snow White
Here Comes the Bride

Not a mica, but
Sparkle Plenty Glitterhttp://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## newbie (Sep 18, 2015)

I don't have all those to know which is equivalent, but I'm pretty certain Magic Beans is the same as TKB's Chameleon. It is incredible as a mica- sooooo very beautiful- but it does not translate that well in soap. It's a brickish brownish red in soap but for a surface color or for makeup....it is stunning.


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## doriettefarm (Sep 18, 2015)

Hey Carrie!  I'm another huge fan of your micas/colorants and just wanted to give a big thumbs-up for your products as well as customer service.  I love that you show pics of the colorants in both CP & MP.  The only way you could improve that would be showing how the colors vary by increasing or decreasing the usage rate (which has already been suggested).  

The wishlist to shopping cart feature would also be nice especially prior to a sale.  I'll usually load up my wishlist and use that as my checklist for what to purchase so it would be extra-enabling if I could auto-magically transfer the selected items.

Also wanted to let you know I've been so pleased with both of the tall, skinny molds I've purchased from you.  I've got the 2.5 & 4.5lb version and love them both.  I use the 2.5lb mold for almost all of my test batches.  My only frustration with the 4.5lb mold is that I don't have a wire cutter with a long enough lever-arm to cut without smooshing the loaf!  Guess I'll have to splurge on a better cutter soon . . .

I do have one question for you.  What happened to the mint green mica?  I ordered 1oz when it first became available but now I don't see it on the site.  Did you find something better or rename it?


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## not_ally (Sep 18, 2015)

makemineirish said:


> When I think of the "adult" designation used earlier in this thread, I am probably envisioning the colors Tempest, Olive You, Hot Man on a Tin Roof, Magic Beans, Pink Frosted Copper, and Satin Grey Pillowcase.  They are all the kinds of colors that I would actually consider using in an eyeshadow palette (not my current plan, but part of my subconscious gravitational pull to them).  This is obviously an entirely subjective perspective as demonstrated by the very different colors picked by another poster.
> ........
> 
> Not a mica, but
> Sparkle Plenty Glitter



--------
Irish, the smoky colors almost never translate well into CP.  Not in the delicate/sparkly/nuanced eye shadow way.  Not w/MO, Nurture, or anywhere else, at least for me, it is just the way it goes.  As Newbie says, they can be great in a mica oil swirl on top of the bar, though.  

Also, I love the Sparkle Plenty Glitter *in* the batter, when I use it I use a plentiful amount in dark colors.  In solid/one color soaps, in particular, it makes the soap look like black granite, green granite, etc.  It really is a pretty effect.


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## rparrny (Sep 18, 2015)

Cosmo said:


> This thread is great! This is Carrie from Nurture and I would love to get some feedback if that is alright. A couple of questions... When you say more adult colors, what do you mean? I don't think MO sells anything we don't, or at least very few colors. We get them from the same place. Our site has been a constant work in progress and I was wondering if there is anything any of you would like to see changes up or done differently to help with your shopping experience. I know there's a lot of places to choose from now and would sincerely appreciate any feedback you can give!


Carrie, I saw your site recently because of this thread.  I have soaped for years but very basic stuff and only recently have gotten into swirls and colors...right now I have green, blue, black and TD white.  I have visited most of the sites that have micas and for me, yours stands out.  Why?
You have a separate category for soap stable colors.
You show CP soaps made with the micas...HUGE deal for me.
You offer an amazing array of sample packs with sizes that should handle a 2 pound loaf.
Your multicolor sample pack allow you to choose what ever color you want and even multiple packs instead of just one of each...the only reason I haven't ordered yet is I can't figure out which ones to try...torture!
You offer colors in plastic bags for cheaper shipping, yet you _can_ get them in jars if you desire...choice, choice, choice...love it!
I see that you have had free shipping specials...another big deal for me.
What do I think you could do better?
I'd like to see more free shipping deals
I'd like to see free shipping for orders over $50
Your webpage and graphics are better than most, but just don't grab me and I feel they are a bit child like.  Mad Oils has much more adult theme...wood planking in the background...hot guys half naked on the banner...even the font they use appeals to me more.  BB also has more adult theme...I don't think MO has more adult colors...they look the same to me, maybe it's the adult theme that gives one the illusion that the colors are more adult...JMHO.
I love the idea of your piping set, but it is about 20 bucks more than I want to spend...and I have a big budget.  I'd rather see a smaller more basic set so I can play around with a smaller price.  I have the money to spend if I want to buy it, but I feel its too pricey for me to try something new.  That amount of money could go to a new slab mold...but for a piping set?  Also the one question I saw said she couldn't access the video she paid for...left me cold...
I would love to see _some_ company _*any *_company offer scent samples for free or close to it.  Not samples to try in my soap, samples to sniff...like the little square cloths you get to sample perfume.  I would try many more scents if I could sniff em first.  How about 10 sniffers for a buck?
My favorite sites have an area with recipes and my fave....soap ****...videos on cool techniques.  I don't see that on your site.
All that being said, I would rather buy my micas from your site because of the choice and value you offer.


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## not_ally (Sep 18, 2015)

rparrny said:


> I would love to see _some_ company _*any *_company offer scent samples for free or close to it.  Not samples to try in my soap, samples to sniff...like the little square cloths you get to sample perfume.  I would try many more scents if I could sniff em first.  How about 10 sniffers for a buck?



I'm not speaking for Carrie, here, but my sense is that offering these kind of samples - or any kind of very cheap samples on (eg) a cotton puff/cloth pad - is a giant loss leader.  Just the labor/postage costs for getting them done and sent out would be a big chunk in a promotional budget.  

I know BB does it - you can send them separate SASE's for individual scents for free - but they are the only ones that do, and if I were them I probably wouldn't, from a business perspective.


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## doriettefarm (Sep 18, 2015)

BB is one of the few I've ordered from that include sample FOs.  What size is theirs . . . like .25oz?  The only other place I've seen that offers a smaller sniffy sample is Elements Bath & Body.  Their FO and lip flavor oil samples are in teeny plastic vials . . . I'm talking mls instead of oz.


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## not_ally (Sep 18, 2015)

One of the things that I actually love about BB is the free little FO bottle that you can request w/each order.   It is not big enough to make a batch of any size, but it is big enough to make a good enough sized sample that you can tell what will happen with it after cure.


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## snappyllama (Sep 18, 2015)

I love those samples too! I use them for testers or small batches of B&B.  They'll change it from the standard monthly offering too if you ask with your order. I've actually gotten orders and liked the sample so much I turned around and placed another order the same week... snagging my money away from another vendor that would have gotten an order. 

Lately, MO has also included some dram sized FOs in their gift bag. It really isn't enough to test out in CP, but I love being able to sniff something. If I already have it, I pass it onto other soapers.

One of my dad's favorite sayings was "If they're going to give you something for free, take it" while directing me back to get seconds and thirds of Hickory Farms samples at the mall (who is going to refuse a kid accompanied by an eastern european man gesturing like mad). It worked too... we have to have an obscenely large summer sausage sticking out of someone's stocking every Christmas. I don't even want the sausage, but it's tradition now. /end digression


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## rparrny (Sep 18, 2015)

doriettefarm said:


> BB is one of the few I've ordered from that include sample FOs.  What size is theirs . . . like .25oz?  The only other place I've seen that offers a smaller sniffy sample is Elements Bath & Body.  Their FO and lip flavor oil samples are in teeny plastic vials . . . I'm talking mls instead of oz.


I went on to BB and the only sampler I could find was half ounce, they choose the fragrance and they want 20 bucks for 12 scents that are in too small an amount to use in a batch (or maybe not)  I want the freedom to check out the scents I want to smell, I don't want them picked for me.  I disagree that it would be a loss.  I can't tell you how many scents I haven't tried because I want to smell them first.  How many times have you had someone ask you about recommendations...how is it possible when we all have different likes and dislikes...sure some are naturally big sellers but how many scents are getting ignored because they haven't been tried by a large enough population?
I don't need or want vial...just a little square sealed that I can rip open and experience it for myself.


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## makemineirish (Sep 18, 2015)

not_ally said:


> --------
> Irish, the smoky colors almost never translate well into CP.  Not in the delicate/sparkly/nuanced eye shadow way.  Not w/MO, Nurture, or anywhere else, at least for me, it is just the way it goes.  As Newbie says, they can be great in a mica oil swirl on top of the bar, though.



Understood.  However, I am sometimes interested in using them for decorative effects precisely because they are so novel.  As an aside, one of the things mentioned in my discussion with Jo is that they are planning to add an eyeshadow base to their site for those who would like to use the micas in a cosmetic application.  I am bare-faced most days but currently make all of our household toiletries (toothpaste, deodorant, etc) and like the idea of DIYing some custom colors.  When I do bother to wear makeup, my tastes are fairly specific...and expensive.

Thanks so much for the description of Sparkle Plenty glitter.  I am not much for sparkle as a general rule, but have some girly girls of all ages on my Christmas list that would love a little "glam" in their soap.


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## not_ally (Sep 18, 2015)

snappyllama said:


> One of my dad's favorite sayings was "If they're going to give you something for free, take it" while directing me back to get seconds and thirds of Hickory Farms samples at the mall (who is going to refuse a kid accompanied by an eastern european man gesturing like mad). It worked too... we have to have an obscenely large summer sausage sticking out of someone's stocking every Christmas. I don't even want the sausage, but it's tradition now. /end digression



This cracked me up, I think those of us who are children of the ethnic parents have even more than the rest to be embarrassed about during the teenage years!  Also, I worked at the budget version of Hickory Farms (it was called Swiss Colony) when I was a teenager. We had to wear Swiss Miss uniforms,  I don't know what people thought when they saw a slight/weedy little Indian girl wearing one .  You know what though, the muscle memory from wrapping cheese and sausage and using a heat gun has stood me in good stead in these soaping times!

I have a BB sampler list so that I always request one I want to try,  rather than getting their regular monthly sample.  It really has been a  great way for (a) me to try samples of ones I actually want, for free;  and (b) for them, b/c it is one of the reasons I keep going back for  other things.  

I like the MO samples too, for OOB purposes.   They are pretty teeny.  They would work in a dab of lotion, but I have  never tried them in CP samples b/c too small.  I am madly in love w/MO's  packaging, though.


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## snappyllama (Sep 18, 2015)

not_ally said:


> This cracked me up, I think those of us who are children of the ethnic parents have even more than the rest to be embarrassed about during the teenage years!  Also, I worked at the budget version of Hickory Farms (it was called Swiss Colony) when I was a teenager. We had to wear Swiss Miss uniforms,  I don't know what people thought when they saw a slight/weedy little Indian girl wearing one .  You know what though, the muscle memory from wrapping cheese and sausage and using a heat gun has stood me in good stead in these soaping times!



I remember Swiss Colony! The Petits Fours! The Big Red Cheddar Cheese! My dad LOVED them and insisted my mom order them every year as a special treat. I think we might be cosmically related


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## not_ally (Sep 18, 2015)

I told you on the Indian food thread!  Daughters from another mother  

It was a more innocent time, though, we would have to stand out in front of the store and offer people samples of our "beef log".  I think they might change that up some, these days


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## doriettefarm (Sep 18, 2015)

Maybe we should create a sniffy-sample co-op?  rparrny you've seen my FO stash and it's nothing to sneeze at.  I would be game to share sniffies of anything I've got especially if you're just talking about a saturated cotton ball in a ziploc baggie!

I never realized you could request different FOs from BB besides the monthly selection.  Those alone have persuaded me to make several purchases (Tobacco & Bay Leaf and Lavender & Cedar most recently).

I remember having one of those Hickory Farms/Swiss Colony stores in the mall!  Also remember Orange Julius very fondly . . . the new DQ version just isn't the same


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## snappyllama (Sep 18, 2015)

doriettefarm said:


> Maybe we should create a sniffy-sample co-op?  rparrny you've seen my FO stash and it's nothing to sneeze at.  I would be game to share sniffies of anything I've got especially if you're just talking about a saturated cotton ball in a ziploc baggie!
> 
> I never realized you could request different FOs from BB besides the monthly selection.  Those alone have persuaded me to make several purchases (Tobacco & Bay Leaf and Lavender & Cedar most recently).
> 
> I also remember having one of those Hickory Farms/Swiss Colony stores in the mall!  Also remember Orange Julius very fondly . . . the DQ version just isn't the same



I'm happy to share sniffies of my stash too. Count me in.


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## rparrny (Sep 18, 2015)

doriettefarm said:


> Maybe we should create a sniffy-sample co-op?  rparrny you've seen my FO stash and it's nothing to sneeze at.  I would be game to share sniffies of anything I've got especially if you're just talking about a saturated cotton ball in a ziploc baggie!


My postmaster already looks at me suspiciously...I can imagine requesting a large envelope to send cotton balls with baggies...probably would think I'm shipping a dirty bomb or a bio hazard!:evil:
Beside, although my EO collection is large (albeit not like yours) I have 2, count em 2 FOs which I'm sure you have...lol


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## doriettefarm (Sep 18, 2015)

rparrny said:


> My postmaster already looks at me suspiciously...I can imagine requesting a large envelope to send cotton balls with baggies...probably would think I'm shipping a dirty bomb or a bio hazard!:evil:
> Beside, although my EO collection is large (albeit not like yours) I have 2, count em 2 FOs which I'm sure you have...lol



Then you must have excellent taste in FOs and don't need more enabling . . . you're well on your way to being as sick as the rest of us


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## not_ally (Sep 18, 2015)

Doriette, mall food courts are nothing to sneeze at   I very rarely venture into a mall these days, but that is where I go first (and maybe last) when I do!

I would be up for sending sniffy-samples, as long as it was easy.  Ie; maybe have people post lists of things that they wanted to smell so that if I had one on their list I could PM them and they could send me a ready to go SASE w/plastic baggie so that I could just dip it into the FO and send it back to them quickly.  I'm happy to do that.  I don't think I'd want to do it as a swap, I already have/have tried too many friggin' FO's (couple of hundred) and am in the process of packing to move, which makes me mad at myself for buying all of them.


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## snappyllama (Sep 18, 2015)

I think we are all probably on a list in some government office... initially on the "Suspected of Manufacturing Illicit Substances" due to buying of chemicals and gloves and such. Then we get moved over to the "Harmless Maker of Nice Smelling Things" file when they realize BRV and OMH aren't nefarious codewords.


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## makemineirish (Sep 18, 2015)

not_ally said:


> I'm not speaking for Carrie, here, but my sense is that offering these kind of samples - or any kind of very cheap samples on (eg) a cotton puff/cloth pad - is a giant loss leader.  Just the labor/postage costs for getting them done and sent out would be a big chunk in a promotional budget.
> 
> I know BB does it - you can send them separate SASE's for individual scents for free - but they are the only ones that do, and if I were them I probably wouldn't, from a business perspective.



I completely disagree.  It was one of my requests on page one and a topic of discussion with Jo from Mad Oils.  As I stated earlier, scent is a personal and subjective thing.  The current thread searching for the "best vanilla" should convey how differently everyone feels about what their version of "best" should be: buttery or cool, sweet or dry.  I hate, hate, hate spending money on a scent promising me the smell of Hawaii to find that their interpretation is cloyingly floral or synthetic suntan lotion.  It offends my "waste not" sensibilities to throw it away, but I refuse use up that much more money in ingredients to make a soap that I am curl my lip at every time I use it.

I acknowledge that BB is exceedingly generous in their policy.  However, I spend hundreds of dollars more with them as a result.  Because I am reasonably confident that I will like a particular interpretation of a fragrance from a sniffie sample, they get the order over other vendors.  As long as I am paying a shipping fee with them, I get my basics there as well (butters, oils, mold, etc).  I also appreciate their level of customer service and go out of my way to support those business practices with my money.

(As a personal side note, I get just as irritated with shipping fees as everyone else, but have duplicated my BB cart on WSP to directly compare total price.  Thus far, BB has always come out cheaper...proving that "free shipping" is more a marketing gimmick than savings.)

When talking with Jo, I explained this same point especially in light of the fact that I found some of the fragrance descriptions on her site a little lacking.  I am someone who is entirely willing to PAY for the sniffies, especially given that the shipping should be negligible for cotton swabs.  Sweet Cakes has intrigued me for a while, but I could easily spend $200 on an assortment of small jars and shipping...a commitment I am not willing to make for things that may be hit or miss for me.  I would be thrilled to send SASEs and pay a fee to hone my selections under the assumption that a $25 investment would save me money in the long run.

Jo agreed to discuss it with her partner and consider adding it as a feature when their new site launches.  I will keep my fingers crossed.


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## not_ally (Sep 18, 2015)

Oh heck, I'm so used to being on government lists (commie lawyer type) I don't even care anymore    I did have a setback when I took my first package of stuff I was sending to an SMF buddy and they sniffed, asked me if I was sending fragrances (I am not a very *good* lawyer, obviously, I said yes), and had to take my box away.  Now I just wrap them up better and lie.


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## newbie (Sep 18, 2015)

I wonder how much it takes to have those perfume type sniffers made, the kind you get in a magazine or at a department store where you open the flap and it releases the scent. That would be cool for FO's.

I can say from packaging up many a sniffie to swap that it is very time intensive. It would be way faster to offer a small free sample in a small bottle like BB does because that can probably be automated. I too like their samples and they are super in allowing you to swap out the monthly sample for whatever you like. If you are a frequent flyer, and ask, they will often give you several free samples. Of note, whatever the free sample of the month is will be on sale the following month, for 20% off. Very smart marketing. 

I have a stupid number of FO's and am in for a sniffie swap. We did that once a long time ago and it was really fun. Also, since they are just to smell, once you are done and have made notes, the box can be passed along to another person.


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## newbie (Sep 18, 2015)

Being redundant and pesky, I would love to see colors like this available in micas. I really really would love it!


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## doriettefarm (Sep 18, 2015)

That burgundy in the middle pic is luscious newbie!


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## newbie (Sep 18, 2015)

I wish I knew how to make it!

MO Peacock=N Teal Green
MO Tahitian Teal= N Sea Green
MO Lettuce Entertain You= N Spring Green
MO Maniacal Pea = N Green Vibrance (I'm pretty certain but not 100%)
MO Twilight = N Klein Blue

MO Blue Velvet is not CP soap stable
MO Olive You is not soap stable
MO Tempest is not predictable in CP


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## snappyllama (Sep 19, 2015)

MO Tempest makes a very deep earthy gray with a touch of purple for me. 

Please excuse the terrible photography and lighting...

Here it is in a soap whose FO discolored... that light section actually had enough TD in it that it should have been sparkling white. 






Here it is in a nondiscoloring FO batch I made for the swap.


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## gigisiguenza (Sep 19, 2015)

Cosmo said:


> This thread is great! This is Carrie from Nurture and I would love to get some feedback if that is alright. A couple of questions... When you say more adult colors, what do you mean? I don't think MO sells anything we don't, or at least very few colors. We get them from the same place. Our site has been a constant work in progress and I was wondering if there is anything any of you would like to see changes up or done differently to help with your shopping experience. I know there's a lot of places to choose from now and would sincerely appreciate any feedback you can give!



I would love to see any colorant sample (including naturals like madder etc) shown not only in gelled CP soap but in ungelled. It's very difficult to make decisions on colorants when you're unable to see a reasonably reliable sample of what it will color to.

Just my two cents


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## gigisiguenza (Sep 19, 2015)

As to the sniffies, I'm more than happy to send sniffies to anyone who wants to test any of the FO I have. I don't have a huge selection yet, but I do have some  . Like the rest of you, I am very reluctant to invest my meager soaping budget in FOs if I am unsure of the scent. I love being able to smell them first.


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## rparrny (Sep 19, 2015)

doriettefarm said:


> Then you must have excellent taste in FOs and don't need more enabling . . . you're well on your way to being as sick as the rest of us


How can _I _participate with only two?  Oh wait...I ordered a sample pack of  2 ounce samples from bitter creek so now I will have 9!
Enablers...all of you enablers...


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## rparrny (Sep 19, 2015)

newbie said:


> I have a stupid number of FO's and am in for a sniffie swap. We did that once a long time ago and it was really fun. Also, since they are just to smell, once you are done and have made notes, the box can be passed along to another person.


How brilliant...a sniffie *chain letter!*


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## rparrny (Sep 19, 2015)

Another thing I would love to see on vendor sites: A category for "superstar FOs" a list of FOs that will not discolor, effect trace, rice or do any other nasty thing.  I think I finally find a FO I would like to try, only to look it up and find it will effect trace or something.


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## gigisiguenza (Sep 19, 2015)

newbie said:


> I have a stupid number of FO's and am in for a sniffie swap. We did that once a long time ago and it was really fun. Also, since they are just to smell, once you are done and have made notes, the box can be passed along to another person.



What a great idea! And when you receive the box and did your sniffing, made your notes, and put it back in , you could add some sniffies to the box that aren't in it. 

I also have a suggestion on how the sniffies can be created so they are easily packaged, can be labelled, can travel safely, won't be stinky and alert the usps folks, and will contain their scent really well.

Long time ago I sent a friend a bunch of perfume samples so she could try and dupe their scent for me in her perfumery hobby. What I did was simply clip a qtip in half, dipped the swab into the scent, wrapped the tip in a teeny piece of cling wrap, put it in one of these little vials, labeled, and sent them off. I sent her musta been over a dozen scents. Took me no time at all to do it, labels and all (painters tape or narrow masking tape works). She sent me back her dupe attempts in the same kind of packaging. Worked like a charm because we could fit so many into such a small package and they held the scent inside so well.

Here's the links to the type of vials I used. I bought them at the craft store dirt cheap (6 for a buck or two I think), in the beading aisle. 

  http://www.hobbylobby.com/Beads-&...l-Clear-Plastic-Storage-Tubes/p/9503-TE0367  

  http://www.michaels.com/10226097.html#q=Tubes&start=15


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## newbie (Sep 19, 2015)

Even cheaper is to get a package of small baggies, the 2x2 inch. I also clip a q-tip in half, dunk the swab, pop it in the bag and label it. Less labor intensive that cling wrapping and taping it. And yes, you can get a TON of those in a small package.


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## vmakkers (Sep 20, 2015)

I would love to participate in a sniffie chain letter thing. I have a crazy amount of FOs that I wouldn't mind doing a qtip sniffie sample for. I already have a good amount of them in those small baggies for sniffie samples for friends so it wouldn't take any effort at all to throw them into the box for everyone else. I am a hoarder and I hoard all things, including soapy supplies but I still feel like I haven't found all the fragrances I'm looking. The sniffie chain letter can be like temporary hoarding


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## makemineirish (Sep 20, 2015)

I love the idea of a sniffie chain letter.  I actually have quite a few more sniffies than I do FO's as I have accumulated a number of them to assist in my selection process.  

Most of us are pretty limited in the number of vendors that we have tried due to the practical logistics of consolidating shipping fees.  This would be an amazing opportunity to find unexpected options.  I am always on the hunt for my favorite version of staples, but would really like to be surprised by things that I might not have thought to pick myself.


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## rparrny (Sep 27, 2015)

Cosmo said:


> This thread is great! This is Carrie from Nurture and I would love to get some feedback if that is alright. A couple of questions... When you say more adult colors, what do you mean? I don't think MO sells anything we don't, or at least very few colors. We get them from the same place. Our site has been a constant work in progress and I was wondering if there is anything any of you would like to see changes up or done differently to help with your shopping experience. I know there's a lot of places to choose from now and would sincerely appreciate any feedback you can give!


Carrie,
I just placed my order...took me so long because of course I wanted everything...I see that you now offer a basic piping set for me to play with, which is what I asked for...I love a company that listens to their customers...of course it was added to my cart...thank you for listening!  BTW I was pleasantly surprised to see the cost of shipping...lots of choices...and I _love _choices and the price was very reasonable...BB just lost my business...


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## lenarenee (Sep 27, 2015)

Is it official....there will be a sniffie "chain letter"? I'd love to participate, and while we're at it how about a color "lookie"...small chips of soap with a description of the colorant used? 

When I ordered micas from Nurture and Mad Oil I didn't have the patience to try them one by one....so I made 1lb loafs with 6 - 9 colors in them to test them out. It would be easy to take the end pieces and "chip" them to add to the envelopes. 

And, that might be a less time consuming way to sample the fragrances....soap chips after they've been soaped. There's be a lot less packing, plus - you'd smell the fo after their soaped/morphed.

Just an aside; comparing Nurture and MO, my experience with NSS is that "what you see is what you get", (got about a dozen NSS micas). The one mica from them that morphed was clearly stated it would do so and exactly what it would morph into (forgot the name...nice blue mica, morphed into a wonderful denim color for manly soaps! MO, slightly less success but nothing I'm displeased with. In fact I just did Twilight mica, and the final color was not as dark or vibrant...but was beautiful....I'd purposely go that shade again. (for Salty Mariner).

The tone of MO's website has  more "energy" and "fun" than NSS. But, I'm on a budget...and NSS with all of their detailed information I know exactly what I'm in for and know my money is well spent.

When I'm able to be more frivolous, I try Mad Oils. However, while their micas look and sound more complex....most of what I got was virtually identical to what I had from Nurture. 

And I'm one that is extremely turned off the more sexualized names,  titles and pictures of shirtless men. Shoot...I can't even shop on MO website with my little one around....who's very involved with every step of soap making....for fear of what she'll see/read.  I hope NSS doesn't go that route. 

I haven't tried fo's from either.


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## newbie (Sep 27, 2015)

Nothing official but I may ask one of the mods to so a sniffie swap or colorant swap. I think it would have to go officially by swap rules, same as soaps. More complex to organize though because you don't want people sending the same FO's or colorants so it could be a bit of a sorting nightmare- but worth it in the end. because of that complexity, I would limit the swap to a specific number, but then everyone can pair up with a non-participant to whom they can send their box when they are done.


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## rparrny (Sep 27, 2015)

lenarenee said:


> And I'm one that is extremely turned off the more sexualized names,  titles and pictures of shirtless men. Shoot...I can't even shop on MO website with my little one around....who's very involved with every step of soap making....for fear of what she'll see/read.  I hope NSS doesn't go that route.
> 
> I haven't tried fo's from either.


I agree...I was responding to Carrie's question about why MO shoppers consider their colors more adult when they use the same colors from the same supplier.  My observation was that the site layout was "adult" in nature with the half naked guys and that might be where the perception lies.  That being said naked guy aside I do like the graphics and homepage of MO better and I found Nutures homepage to be very plain and didn't wow me.

About the sniffy swaps, can we include EO's in that as well cause then I have something to offer someone???   Pleeeease?


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## reinbeau (Sep 27, 2015)

Hmmm - I don't want the website to 'wow' me.  I want information, logically laid out, so I can make my purchase and then my own creativity can flow.  Nurture's pages work fine for me.  I hadn't seen any of these half naked men on the MO pages, maybe because I just don't care for the whole schtick over there.  :::shrug::: I'll stick to NSS


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## lenarenee (Sep 27, 2015)

rparrny said:


> I agree...I was responding to Carrie's question about why MO shoppers consider their colors more adult when they use the same colors from the same supplier. My observation was that the site layout was "adult" in nature with the half naked guys and that might be where the perception lies. That being said naked guy aside I do like the graphics and homepage of MO better and I found Nutures homepage to be very plain and didn't wow me.
> 
> About the sniffy swaps, can we include EO's in that as well cause then I have something to offer someone??? Pleeeease?


 
I hope you didn't take my post as a criticism. 

Mad Oils site has a definite personality and tone that comes across even on a computer.

NSS's site has been through many immense changes as they've grown and changed so quickly. When If first ordered from NNS less than two years ago, there were two families of micas to order from...the Vibrance and the pastels for a total of maybe 20 colors. That was the whole store. No molds, fo's, oxides, tools, botanicals, etc.  I think back to the big sale (and it's crash due to shopping cart issues) and then Carrie spent months on re-vamping things to get them back up to the level she had before (in terms of the amount of information about her products, real-life pics of her micas in soaps, etc). There hasn't been time to worry about "personality" I think.


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## rparrny (Sep 27, 2015)

lenarenee said:


> I hope you didn't take my post as a criticism.


Not at all, but it _did _make me realize that my comments may have given the impression that I thought the half naked guys on the homepage were a plus to the site.
I was really pleased that she added the basic piping kit as I had suggested.  I also like the no nonsense shipping...nothing pisses me off more than companies that profit from shipping.  Do they really think we are that stupid that we don't know the difference?
As her business grows, Carrie will continue to make changes...because I liked her site so much, when she asked for feedback I went back to the site and really took note of what I liked and didn't like...for me, a business that values customer service above all else gets my money...and my time to give feedback that I hope will help her.
Now it's just a matter of waiting for all my new colorants...can't wait for my yellow vibrance...got some holiday soaps still to make and I have special plans for that one...


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## makemineirish (Sep 29, 2015)

reinbeau said:


> Hmmm - I don't want the website to 'wow' me.  I want information, logically laid out, so I can make my purchase and then my own creativity can flow.  Nurture's pages work fine for me.  I hadn't seen any of these half naked men on the MO pages, maybe because I just don't care for the whole schtick over there.  :::shrug::: I'll stick to NSS



Perhaps, I am in the minority.  I agree that having the information logically laid out is important.  However, I view that as the minimum requirement for a business.  I would not use any vendor that failed to provide me with that fundamental necessity.  I give bonus points to those that provide more detailed data such as fragrance oil behavior, depicting pigment hue at specific concentrations in cold process, or providing tabs to important sub-categories like phthalate-free.

That being said, I actually like marketing.  I put a significant amount of thought into things that I package, whether for sale (not soap...yet?) or gifts.  While quality and functionality are prerequisites in my purchases, I have an artist's soul.  (I don't enjoy cookbooks without gorgeous food photography even while I understand that it does not contribute to the quality of the recipe.) Colors, textures, and whimsy provide the charisma that entices me to investigate a "brand" and makes me happy to include it in my home.  After all, part of the allure of homemade soap is the artistry employed.

The half-naked man depicted for Saucy Santa fragrance oil was the only one I saw and one of the least interesting image in the section.  To be fair, I am not that conservative and my "kids" are four-legged.  I actually liked the amalgam of photos, particularly those for Smoke & Mirrors and Grow a (Pear).  While I liked seeing the micas pictured in the finished soap on NSS, I appreciate seeing them pictured straight as well on MO since I often use them for decorative effects.

I understand that everyone has their preferences.  I don't dispute the need for clear, concise, information.  I just appreciate having more than the bare bones.

http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## rparrny (Sep 29, 2015)

makemineirish said:


> That being said, I actually like marketing.  I put a significant amount of thought into things that I package, whether for sale (not soap...yet?) or gifts.  While quality and functionality are prerequisites in my purchases, I have an artist's soul.  (I don't enjoy cookbooks without gorgeous food photography even while I understand that it does not contribute to the quality of the recipe.) Colors, textures, and whimsy provide the charisma that entices me to investigate a "brand" and makes me happy to include it in my home.  After all, part of the allure of homemade soap is the artistry employed.


Exactly how I feel...I love browsing sites that are pleasing to look at and offer that little extra something...especially how to videos.  In the end however, customer service gets my attention the most.  I have given companies with products that I was unhappy with a second and sometimes third chance if the customer service impressed me.
My observation is that most members here are either artistic in their soap making or hope someday to be artistic.  Presentation, presentation, presentation, whether your craft is soap making, cooking or pretty much anything else, your passion comes out and you want it to look the way you feel.  I find sites that have that same kind of passion inspire me.  I think MO's site and marketing is very smart...they are going for a certain demographic and doing a good job of it.  In the end it was Carrie's customer service that got my business.  It's just how I roll.


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## reinbeau (Sep 29, 2015)

Well, I am conservative, old, and a mother of young men.  So I don't get my jollies looking at them half naked.  Don't much care for half naked anything, frankly.  Am not too verbose, either, I save my energy for other things  There are all sorts of us out there, something for everyone.


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## rparrny (Sep 29, 2015)

reinbeau said:


> Well, I am conservative, old, and a mother of young men.  So I don't get my jollies looking at them half naked.  Don't much care for half naked anything, frankly.  Am not too verbose, either, I save my energy for other things  There are all sorts of us out there, something for everyone.


Hey, hey, hey...my _youngest_ is 33...we are not old, we're _well cured._


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## Cosmo (Sep 29, 2015)

I can't thank you all enough for the wonderful information in this thread! I think companies pay big bucks for this kind of info, and all of you were kind enough to share it for free. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I did make some changes to the site since originally posting on this thread. I changed the background o a themed background. Right now it's an autumn theme but soon it will be Halloween. I invested in a program that can make the background whatever I want, whenever I want. I thought that would be fun.

I coded a button into the wishlist link so you can add your products directly to your cart, and added a link to the wishlist at the top of the page that you can click on when logged in.

Better descriptions to the fragrances were added, along with buttons with a direct link to the IFRA docs.

I will be adding more pictures of the micas in MP. Also, may of the colors can be seen as mica in their powder form. If you go to the product page you can click on the pictures below the main pic to blow them up to full size. I will eventually have many more pictures than I do now.

I have added which fragrances are phthalate free directly to the main photo, so you can look at our fragrance category and easily see which ones are and which ones aren't.

I will be making some other changes soon. If anyone would like to contribute pictures of colors in soaps I would love to be able to add it to the product page to give some artistic flair.

Also, I would be happy to contribute to a sniffy chain letter! We are making lots of little samples now and I think it would be really fun!


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## gigisiguenza (Sep 29, 2015)

rparrny said:


> Hey, hey, hey...my _youngest_ is 33...we are not old, we're _well cured._



Yep that's my story and I'm sticking to it 

My oldest is 34 n my youngest is 28, and my oldest grandchild is 16...sometimes I feel downright ancient geez


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## reinbeau (Sep 29, 2015)

gigisiguenza said:


> Yep that's my story and I'm sticking to it
> 
> My oldest is 34 n my youngest is 28, and my oldest grandchild is 16...sometimes I feel downright ancient geez


31 and 35 year old 'boys' here, no grandkids yet, but I do have a granddog   We're only as old as we feel, some days I feel 30.  Others....well, we won't talk about it.
http://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## newbie (Sep 29, 2015)

Carrie, a couple things to contribute. I have many of your micas and on nearly all of them, the mica name has worn off. I handle my jars and bags with regularity but it doesn't seem excessive and most jars are still very full. Thanfully I can id most of them by sight but sometimes I still want to know which purple is which or which green I just used if I like it particularly well. Your logo tends to stay longest but I'd rather have the mica name stay on. Also, I would get ideas for other logos. The old computer font one isn't as eye catching as I think a logo could be and the computer font looks dated. If you were a retro company, I could see it but it doesn't really seem to reflect anything about the company.

I noticed your background immediately and love it!


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## Cosmo (Sep 29, 2015)

Hi Newbie! I think you may have micas with the old labels. Our new ones are much different. I will post a pic soon. Someday the logo may change and I agree with you. However, logo changes require an amazing amount of relabeling, etc. When it changes I will definitely have to be prepared!


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## snappyllama (Sep 29, 2015)

Carrie,

I love the changes to the site. The wish list button is perfect. The background picture really makes the whole site feel more alive and boutique-like.  I haven't noticed any of my mica jars' labels rubbing off although that could be that I portion out my colorants first while my gloves are still dry. I do love that your FO containers have the flashpoint listed on them and your mica containers state which ones are lip safe right on the container.  Including that information saves me from having to head back to the pc to look them up (and I'm lazy - so I just end up using your micas for my lip balms).


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## Cosmo (Sep 29, 2015)

I tried to insert an image of the new labels. Fingers crossed that it works!

Snappy, that info is actually required per regulation to be on colorant labels. Those who don't include it are breaking regulation. I had to buy a fancy new printer to be able to print so many variants of labels, as ordering them would have been astronomically costly. I think this may be why some others don;t do it.

And thank you! I really like the new feel of the site, too. Without this thread it wouldn't have happened.


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## Spice (Sep 29, 2015)

lenarenee said:


> Is it official....there will be a sniffie "chain letter"? I'd love to participate, and while we're at it how about a color "lookie"...small chips of soap with a description of the colorant used?
> 
> When I ordered micas from Nurture and Mad Oil I didn't have the patience to try them one by one....so I made 1lb loafs with 6 - 9 colors in them to test them out. It would be easy to take the end pieces and "chip" them to add to the envelopes.
> 
> ...


I went to MO and was looking at, Indigo Girls Blue, this also said, "Not good for lips." What would this mean? Any one know?


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## snappyllama (Sep 29, 2015)

Not all micas are approved for use around eyes or lips though they might be fine for soap.


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## Cosmo (Sep 29, 2015)

Spice said:


> I went to MO and was looking at, Indigo Girls Blue, this also said, "Not good for lips." What would this mean? Any one know?



The FDA breaks down color regulations into categories. Colors may not be cosmetic grade and don't have an FDA specification in that case. If the FDA does approve a color for cosmetics, it is in at least one of three categories: Safe for lips, safe for eyes, or safe for external use (i.e. nails). When something has not been approved for lips most suppliers will state that it's not approved for use on lips. You can read the FDA color tables here: http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/Labeling/IngredientNames/ucm109084.htm


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## Spice (Sep 30, 2015)

Cosmo said:


> The FDA breaks down color regulations into categories. Colors may not be cosmetic grade and don't have an FDA specification in that case. If the FDA does approve a color for cosmetics, it is in at least one of three categories: Safe for lips, safe for eyes, or safe for external use (i.e. nails). When something has not been approved for lips most suppliers will state that it's not approved for use on lips. You can read the FDA color tables here: http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/Labeling/IngredientNames/ucm109084.htm



This was good, thanks for the info.:wave:


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## rparrny (Sep 30, 2015)

Cosmo said:


> I can't thank you all enough for the wonderful information in this thread! I think companies pay big bucks for this kind of info, and all of you were kind enough to share it for free. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
> 
> I will be making some other changes soon. If anyone would like to contribute pictures of colors in soaps I would love to be able to add it to the product page to give some artistic flair.
> 
> Also, I would be happy to contribute to a sniffy chain letter! We are making lots of little samples now and I think it would be really fun!


Hey Carrie!  Thank you so much for listening!
One thing I would love to see is fragrances divided into groups that would help me in my soap making....How about Swirl Superstars...fragrances that don't accelerate?  Or Color Me Crazy...Fragrances that discolor that I might want to use for a particular look?
Can't wait for my order to arrive, thanks again!


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## dibbles (Sep 30, 2015)

rparrny said:


> Hey Carrie!  Thank you so much for listening!
> One thing I would love to see is fragrances divided into groups that would help me in my soap making....How about Swirl Superstars...fragrances that don't accelerate?  Or Color Me Crazy...Fragrances that discolor that I might want to use for a particular look?
> Can't wait for my order to arrive, thanks again!



I think the way the fragrances are shown is fine. There are less than 20, and they are all on one page. The performance in soap is in the description, with reviews from users posted, and it doesn't take long to read through them all. That would be a good suggestion if there were tons of fragrances offered. And if you had a fragrance that didn't accelerate but did discolor, which group would you put it in?


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## newbie (Sep 30, 2015)

The other problem with stating an FO is a superstar is that FO's may behave differently in different recipes or with different soaping temperatures. And I think we've all had the experience of using something twice but having something happen that we didn't expect and can't figure out exactly why. If a site says an FO behaves X way and someone has a different enough experience but bought a lot based on a statement from the seller, that would lead to a lot of dissatisfaction with the seller that isn't necessarily warranted. Having a subcategory of discoloring FO's may be helpful but as a supplier, I personally would not put my neck on the block by categorically stating that these FO's don't accelerate.


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## snappyllama (Sep 30, 2015)

I can attest to many factors contributing to acceleration on my last batch.  Used 1 oz ppo of MO Lemon Unhinged (smells sooo good btw) at 33% lye concentration. I split it into different colors.

TD: slight
MO Lemon Cupcake mica: none
MO Flashdance: slight
MO Tahitian Teal mica: holy soap on a stick Batman

Now, the Tahitian Teal has chromium green in it which I've seen accelerate things somewhat in the past... but it was nothing like what I've ever experienced. If I hadn't seen the behavior of the other colors, I'd think the FO was speed racer.

ETA: a filter for discoloring would be nice though.


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## reinbeau (Sep 30, 2015)

Amaranth Pink stopped my spin swirl in its tracks.  I still love it, though.  Now I know


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## rparrny (Oct 1, 2015)

newbie said:


> The other problem with stating an FO is a superstar is that FO's may behave differently in different recipes or with different soaping temperatures. And I think we've all had the experience of using something twice but having something happen that we didn't expect and can't figure out exactly why. If a site says an FO behaves X way and someone has a different enough experience but bought a lot based on a statement from the seller, that would lead to a lot of dissatisfaction with the seller that isn't necessarily warranted. Having a subcategory of discoloring FO's may be helpful but as a supplier, I personally would not put my neck on the block by categorically stating that these FO's don't accelerate.


Ahh...well I get that...I have only used a few FOs so I had no idea about the differences with different ingredients.  It would make it pretty impossible to formulate a list.  Having had acceleration issues with one of the FOs I tried, I was hoping for a way of picking one that wouldn't cause issues...and I read the reviews and the one that caused problems had lots of reviews that said there were no problems with acceleration...


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## Punkin2x74 (Oct 10, 2015)

I know I'm a bit late to this Party but I just have to say I ordered about $150 worth of micas from BB when I first started soaping.  I was really mad at myself for doing that when I found Nurture Soap Supplies and Mad Oils.  

NSS I love their molds and their colorants.  I haven't been disappointed with any of them.  Their quality and price is very nice.  The saturation of Carries micas are unbelievable!  And where as with BB I would have to use a tablespoon mixed in a carrier I don't with NSS.  Anyone want to discuss "Really Red Mica"?  *bows to Carrie*

Mad Oils -- I have ordered micas and FOs from them I know that their pricing is higher but the fact that compared to BB where I would have to use maximum usage on BB FO's I use about 1/2 of what I would have to in the MO's FO.


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## moonbeam (Oct 17, 2015)

I am a huge fan of Mad oils, I also like that they get the orders out right away, I hate having to wait 3 days before they even ship it out and then more time on top of that!


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## rogue (Oct 18, 2015)

*Glittery CP*



not_ally said:


> --------
> 
> Also, I love the Sparkle Plenty Glitter *in* the batter, when I use it I use a plentiful amount in dark colors.  In solid/one color soaps, in particular, it makes the soap look like black granite, green granite, etc.  It really is a pretty effect.



LOVE the sparkle plenty in batter. Especially if I'm using it as my 'white'.  I've seen a similar one from a small seller called BeScented. She sellers a GoldDust I think. Makes a beautiful glittery pale gold in CP.


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