# Refined or Unrefined?



## peace-love-and-suds (Dec 21, 2011)

Somebody please help me to settle this.  Is it better to buy unrefined or refined oils for soap?  What is the difference?  Are some oils better unrefined than refined, etc?  Oils that I work with a lot:

coconut
palm
palm kernel 
olive
shea
hemp seed oil

thanks


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## carebear (Dec 21, 2011)

often unrefined has a shorter shelf life, but some feel the refined have lost some mysterious health benefit.  and some like it to be as "natural" as possible.


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## peace-love-and-suds (Dec 21, 2011)

can you be more specific?  Is there any truth to health benefits loss?


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## debbism (Dec 21, 2011)

For use directly on skin or cooking, unrefined is healthier as the nutrients and beneficial properties are intact and not destroyed by the heat of refining.

For soaping or products needing to have a longer shelf life, refined is just fine

except I personally prefer extra virgin organic coconut oil - for some reason it is better than RBD coconut oil for soap.


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## JackiK (Dec 21, 2011)

For me, it's cost.  Believe it or not, the unrefined is more expensive than the refined where I purchase it.


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## Soapy Gurl (Dec 22, 2011)

I love unrefined shea butter.  The stuff I buy even has char from the fire.  I use it for soap and direct skin applications.  For skin applications I believe the benefits are much higher.  I also buy unrefined jojoba, hemp, etc.  Any oil I can find that is reasonably priced compared to refined.  I noticed when looking on Soaper's Choice that unrefined were more expensive right now!


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## carebear (Dec 22, 2011)

i'll not use unrefined butters on open wounds for any money in the world.  nor will I use in lotions or the like.  when I melted and filtered unrefined shea, I pulled out insect wings and legs, and all sorts of unidentifiable stuff.  

for kokum I was part of a fiasco that involved moldy kokum.

no unrefined for anything other than soap.  for me.

(I'm still looking for objective, technical data on these health benefits of unrefined.  not saying it doesn't exist, but I've not come across it.  nor have I looked that hard since i've had too many instances of unclean unrefined butters)

oils, though, like hemp - I don't know squat about those except some shelf life stuff.


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## ikindred (Dec 22, 2011)

I have to agree with Carebear on this one.  When I purchased unrefined from three different vendors, I have found all kinds of things in it!  I normally purchase the unrefined because of cost but I have to melt and strain it a couple of times to get everything out!


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## Dennis (Dec 22, 2011)

carebear said:
			
		

> i'll not use unrefined butters on open wounds for any money in the world.  nor will I use in lotions or the like.  when I melted and filtered unrefined shea, I pulled out insect wings and legs, and all sorts of unidentifiable stuff.
> 
> for kokum I was part of a fiasco that involved moldy kokum.
> 
> no unrefined for anything other than soap.  for me.



Gives new meaning to labels that read "All Natural".   :shock:


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## debbism (Dec 22, 2011)

carebear said:
			
		

> ...... I pulled out insect wings and legs, and all sorts of unidentifiable stuff......



YIKES!  That would definitely put me off unrefined butters!  I think most all mango butters are refined, right?


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## NewSoapGuy (Dec 24, 2011)

carebear said:
			
		

> i'll not use unrefined butters on open wounds for any money in the world.  nor will I use in lotions or the like.  when I melted and filtered unrefined shea, I pulled out insect wings and legs, and all sorts of unidentifiable stuff.
> 
> for kokum I was part of a fiasco that involved moldy kokum.
> 
> ...



I'm exactly the opposite of this opinion.

I'd much rather deal with insect wings, legs, twigs, seed hulls/husks and even a little mud in my butters and oils than the hexanes or industrial chemical solvents often used in the extraction and refining processes for highly processed and refined oils and butters.

Refined butters & oils may LOOK clean and smell like a chemical "cleaning" agent, but that is far from actually BEING clean. 

There is a wealth of information out there on the chemical degradation of oils that occurs in the refining process and the resultant effects on the beneficial vitamins and other fatty acids that good unrefined oils contain.  Google is a decent place to start looking if you care...

Also, there's a significant difference in your finished product quality using refined vs. unrefined.

Try both and you'll see for yourself!  :wink:


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## Fragola (Dec 25, 2011)

Just read recently on olive oil and apparently refined is is lower quality to begin with and they refine it in order to fix the flaws. 

I don't know if this is relevant to soap.


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## Soapy Gurl (Dec 26, 2011)

I though they used a first press in liquid oils and that is why it cost more than refined oils.  Check out Soaper's Choice, most unrefined oils cost more.  We need an expert in the business!


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## peace-love-and-suds (Dec 26, 2011)

my gf is going to graduate with a degree in biological engineering soon.  when that happens I told her I'm putting her to work in her lab to answer these questions once and for all.  Stay tuned haha


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2012)

*Re:*



			
				NewSoapGuy said:
			
		

> I'm exactly the opposite of this opinion.
> 
> I'd much rather deal with insect wings, legs, twigs, seed hulls/husks and even a little mud in my butters and oils than the hexanes or industrial chemical solvents often used in the extraction and refining processes for highly processed and refined oils and butters.
> 
> ...




Im with you on this one.  ill take bugs etc over hexane etc any day!  got a question for you though if you dont mind.  what percentages do you use for your co? im having a difficult time getting the bar as hard as id like.


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## krunt (Jun 23, 2012)

based on my own experience/observation/opinion - unrefined oils produce a soap that feels gentler on the skin; soap that has an all round nicer skin feel.  the downside is the soap seems to melt away faster.  also, unrefined oils are usually more expensive.

refined oils produce a harsher soap, doesn't feel as good on the skin.  however the soap seems to last longer, and refined oils are cheaper to buy.

when i first started soaping, i used mostly refined oils.  i thought the soap was great.  however, i went on to make soap with unrefined oils, and i realised soap could be even better.

i personally prefer to use unrefined oils - i prefer the milder feel of the soap.  in my opinion, it's a better soap, so that's what i'd rather use.


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## brandnew (Jun 23, 2012)

do you find insect wings etc...I'm curious about the difference but all the other 'natural' ingredients are puttting me off!


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## peace-love-and-suds (Jun 23, 2012)

I agree.  I am completely convinced on unrefined.  But the issue goes even further than refined unrefined.  It costs a lot more but I have chosen to go with completely natural organic unrefined oils that are processed in a particular way.  The difficulty is locating suppliers that meet these standards because unrefined is one of the many considerations.


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2012)

peace-love-&-Suds said:
			
		

> I agree.  I am completely convinced on unrefined.  But the issue goes even further than refined unrefined.  It costs a lot more but I have chosen to go with completely natural organic unrefined oils that are processed in a particular way.  The difficulty is locating suppliers that meet these standards because unrefined is one of the many considerations.



ditto that.  cost is a big issue, but i think its worth it.  id much rather take my chances with bug parts than stripped out oils and chemical residues, and the environmental damage that goes along with that.  my issue is not only finding suppliers at a decent cost, but finding suppliers that know-or are willing to disclose- exactly how their oils are processed-or preferably, not.

as to the original post asking which is better...  there are tricks to using them just like all other oils, but personally, i wouldn't go any other way.   ive been called snobbish for it, but its just personal preference.


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## krunt (Jun 24, 2012)

brandnew said:
			
		

> do you find insect wings etc...I'm curious about the difference but all the other 'natural' ingredients are puttting me off!



it seems the insect wings and stuff were found in butters... i have never used butters in my soap.  to be honest, i've never looked into them and i don't really know what they are.  i don't know if they are just 'solid below a certain temperature' oils or something else entirely.  however, i am pretty sure that avocado butter is hydrogenated avocado oil... i prefer to stay away from hydrogenated oils.

i use food grade, cold pressed, extra virgin oils in my soap.  i have never come across anything unusual in any of my oils.


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