# Hot lye method



## Sonya-m (Jun 10, 2015)

So there's s lot of people talking about this in a FB soap group. I've found the video:

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y7yy2LpmEkU[/ame]

Don't think I'll be trying this anytime soon if a volcano as you blend is one of the risks! Not to mention taking the gloves off whilst it's that hot!! The claims on FB are that its fully cured almost as soon as its cut - surely not?


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## Susie (Jun 10, 2015)

There is a difference between "gelled and safe" and "cured".  Cure takes time.  What she has there is gelled, but NOT cured.  I would challenge her to zap test it.(I never trust those drops.)


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## houseofwool (Jun 10, 2015)

I have to think that part of the reason this works for her is her specific recipe. Even soaping at room temp, I hit a light trace in just a minute or two.


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## galaxyMLP (Jun 10, 2015)

It isn't cured after it is finished. But it will definitely be zap free b/c it has gone though full gel. Its just like HP in that regard.

 FYI, it takes just as long to do this in the microwave and I find it to be a bit safer. I like crock pot and microwave hot process. I don't think I would try this though. I also think I would get bored/impatient and want to walk away.

 I bet this would work with almost any recipe. I do microwave HP with pure OO soap and it really doesn't take more than 10 min.


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## not_ally (Jun 10, 2015)

Her directions in the comments say: "With HP Extreme, you can create a Hot Process soap in approximately 10  minutes using a stick blender.  Just make sure your Lye Water is at  least 170 degrees Fahrenheit before mixing with your Oils, which should  be at least 200 degrees Fahrenheit.  Do NOT warm up the Lye Water if you  let the liquid cool down too much!   As soon as you make your Lye  Water, give it a good stir,  and simply mix it with your Hot Oils.  You  want to keep your temperature around 180-200 degrees."

That seems so high!  I don't make HP, but what would that do to your EO's/FO's, keeping them at those temps for those long?  Also, don't believe that the soap is fully cured instantly.  It just seems kind of nutty and scary.  Working with regular lye is scary enough for me


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## galaxyMLP (Jun 10, 2015)

You don't put fragrance in until the very end, after saponification is complete. By that point, temp should be down below 160. When I HP, I make sure my temp is below 160 before adding fragrance.

I'm not really sure why so many people are shocked by this. As an HP maker, I don't see this as being much faster than typical HP.

Eta: the soap won't be fully "cured" but it will be zap free. Some people consider that "done-ness" for soap. From experience I know that HP soap benefits from just as long a cure as CP soap. 

Is it usable after cook? Yes! Is it the best representation of what the soap will truly be? No. Will it last 3 seconds in the shower? Most definitely!

Eta 2: trying it right now because I can


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## not_ally (Jun 10, 2015)

Let us know what happens, Galaxy, I am really curious about what you think.


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## snappyllama (Jun 10, 2015)

I was just watching this video and was impressed with the fluidity of the pour. I've seen some other HP soapers get similar results by adding a lot of water to the soap.  One thing that struck me as weird as someone that only has dabbled with HP... adding the yogurt at the end. Shouldn't that go into the cook and not as a superfat?  I'm sure it's my ignorance that's talking, but I've cooked with milks as a replacement for a quantity of my water. I didn't put them in after the cook... Wouldn't that be inviting rancidity? 

Here she is using 40% and 1 tablespoon of yogurt ppo.  I guess I shouldn't be impressed with the fluidity of the pour after all.

Also, I don't know about y'all, but my stick blender would be complaining if I ran it non-stop for 10 minutes.

Maybe I'm not seeing the point of this other than not having to clean up a crockpot....


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## galaxyMLP (Jun 10, 2015)

Yup, I just tried it. It didn't work... I ended up microwave HP'ing it b/c it cooled down too much and never "volcanoed". I think snappy is right. I may be recipe specific. 

I hit trace @8:50 pm and just finished @9:58. It took 50 min to finish cooking. The last 8 min was for me slamming it into the mold b/c it cooled down soooo fast. From start to finish it was 1 hour and 30 min. Not worth it!

I have just as many (if not more) soapy dishes to clean and this took 1+ hour straight of up time. With CP HP I spend about 10-15 min of up time, have a 30 min break and then have another 15-30 min of up time (depending on how fancy I want to get).

My oils to start with: 

5% avocado
7% castor
33% oo pomace
40% palm
15% Shea 
(No CO b/c I'm very sensitive to it!)

Heated in microwave






Then, lye solution was 33% in almond milk. I scented w honey, coconut and vanilla ("coconut cream soap")




It traced instantly (less than 20 seconds!) And turned to taffy super quick. At this point I was pleased b/c it wasn't even 9:00 yet. Then it just didn't change from there. At 9:15 I nuked it for about 25 min on and off until it gelled. This recipe doesn't volcano. Zap free, let cool, fragrance added, glopped in mold.


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## Sonya-m (Jun 11, 2015)

Another soaper on the FB group tried it too and it took her ages too - definitely think it must depend on the recipe. 

If I'm gonna HP I'll stick to my crockpot


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jun 11, 2015)

Slow cooker!  Don't give in to them, Sonya!


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## navigator9 (Jun 11, 2015)

Susie said:


> There is a difference between "gelled and safe" and "cured".  Cure takes time.  What she has there is gelled, but NOT cured.  I would challenge her to zap test it.(I never trust those drops.)



No wonder newbies get so confused.     Information gets spread so quickly these days over the internet....even when it's wrong. People make statements as if they know what they're talking about. They throw terms around as if they were interchangeable. It's no surprise that newer soapers may believe that "gelled and safe" is the same as "cured."


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## Sonya-m (Jun 11, 2015)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Slow cooker!  Don't give in to them, Sonya!




OMG, you're right!! I meant slow cooker!!!


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## DeeAnna (Jun 11, 2015)

"...It's no surprise that newer soapers may believe that "gelled and safe" is the same as "cured." ..."

That sweet promise of "instant cure" is so very, very attractive to impatient soapers. I think that's why this myth is so persistent on the 'net -- it's like a "get rich quick" scheme for soapers.


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## Saponista (Jun 12, 2015)

So may people think that curing soap isn't important, especially if they hot process and high water discount. I have given up trying to argue with people. 

The lady who made that video has been openly ridiculed though. Someone made a spoof YouTube video poking fun at her. While I wouldn't use her method, I feel that the person who did that went way too far. 

I'm so glad that our community is so much more respectful and polite to each other, even though there are disagreements.

I am a member of several Facebook soap groups and don't find the community to be anywhere near as friendly and welcoming as here. 

Thank you everyone for being the lovely people that you are.


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## MagicalMysterySoap (Jun 13, 2015)

Wow,  that is so cool.  As an hp soaper, I am very intrigued. I really want to try it but I'm scared that it will volcano and cause a huge mess. 

That is unfortunate that she is getting ridiculed. If it works for her who cares. I understand some people not liking her method but if she can make it work for herself then good for her. 

The person who mentioned adding additives after the cook, I hp and always add my milks, yogurt,  honey,  oats, etc.  After the cook and have never had an issue with soaps turning rancid.


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## JayJay (Jun 13, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> "...It's no surprise that newer soapers may believe that "gelled and safe" is the same as "cured." ..."
> 
> That sweet promise of "instant cure" is so very, very attractive to impatient soapers. I think that's why this myth is so persistent on the 'net -- it's like a "get rich quick" scheme for soapers.



Before I joined this site, I couldn't tell you how many times I read that HP is ready to use after 24 hours. Every DIY blogger must have used the same source. People copy each other almost verbatim. After I read it so much, I thought it was true. 

Now I know better. I an now trying to hold off at least 6-8 weeks, but that is hard for me because I am still very excited to try every new batch.


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## snappyllama (Jun 13, 2015)

That's a shame that people are ridiculing her.  Putting yourself out there by making a youtube video demonstrating something takes more guts than I have.  Maybe I don't see the point of doing it her way, or disagree with the information about HP not needing a long cure, but to mock someone is just cruel.  There are all sorts of ways to make a point. No need to be tacky about it.

I am really glad I found this forum.  I read through a few others, but this is the only one I feel comfortable contributing on... I know if I say something stupid, y'all will correct me in a helpful way!


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## Lion Of Judah (Jun 13, 2015)

i would try this method out with a small 1lb batch  just to see if it works for me . what got me though about the whole thing is  how long it took to trace [i've never had a batch take that long in all of my three years making soap , especially running the EB that long ] . i commend her if she has successful results every time. I concur as well with the general opinion about gel & safe not being the same as cured . 
i've not made HP as of yet and if i can get this to work for me it would be great


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## galaxyMLP (Jun 13, 2015)

I am going to try this again soon with much hotter oils (220+) to see if that goes well. I noticed she said AT LEAST 200 F and I was only at 193. That may have been my problem.


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## Luv2Soap (Jun 13, 2015)

MagicalMysterySoap said:


> Wow,  that is so cool.  As an hp soaper, I am very intrigued. I really want to try it but I'm scared that it will volcano and cause a huge mess.
> 
> That is unfortunate that she is getting ridiculed. If it works for her who cares. I understand some people not liking her method but if she can make it work for herself then good for her.
> 
> The person who mentioned adding additives after the cook, I hp and always add my milks, yogurt,  honey,  oats, etc.  After the cook and have never had an issue with soaps turning rancid.



I agree with you - it's a shame she's getting ridiculed! I thought it was really cool of her to post the video to show people there is another way of doing things. But....haters gonna hate....


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## Susie (Jun 13, 2015)

MagicalMysterySoap said:


> Wow,  that is so cool.  As an hp soaper, I am very intrigued. I really want to try it but I'm scared that it will volcano and cause a huge mess.



If I were you, and I wanted to try this, I would do a small batch(1-2 lb oil max) in a big pot to prevent overflow with any possible volcano action.  But, I would go for it!  If you let fear of a mess prevent you from trying something new and intriguing, you may never find your perfect <fill in the blank>.


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## MagicalMysterySoap (Jun 13, 2015)

Susie said:


> If I were you, and I wanted to try this, I would do a small batch(1-2 lb oil max) in a big pot to prevent overflow with any possible volcano action.  But, I would go for it!  If you let fear of a mess prevent you from trying something new and intriguing, you may never find your perfect <fill in the blank>.



Thank you for the suggestions and motivation. You are right, I will give it a try and see how it turns out.


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## Susie (Jun 13, 2015)

There you go!


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## MagicalMysterySoap (Jun 14, 2015)

OK,  I tried it and it did not take me 10 minutes,  at all. More like an hour. I made sure that my oils were 200 degrees and that my lye was hot. I stick blended forever and it didn't gel. I checked the temp, and it was 160. I popped it in the microwave to heat it,  and it started to separate. I stick blended it to bring it together and blended some more,  and more,  and more (you get the idea).  Finally,  it was semi looking like hers,  where it was a bit gelled and the  batter wasn't sticking to the sb. I got tired, I covered it, and it gelled completely. It never got to the volcano stage. I added yogurt and it did make it more fluid, but not like hers,  her soap batter looked like water. It was just like how my hp batter looks. I molded it and it's currently in the freezer. She recommends to leave it in there for 2 hours. 

I don't know how she does it. This was too much work for me, I would rather hp with my crock pot. So much easier. My thumb hurts from pressing on the button for so long. I thought my trusty Braun would die on me,  it got crazy hot to the point where I had to stop for a bit because it was burning me. 

I am glad it worked for her but it was too much work for me. I would like to know what sb she uses,  because I am surprised it is still going. My Braun hates me right now. 

I included a picture of the soap right after I molded. I was going to swirl but just decided to color the whole soap with alkanet root,  I was too tired to even bother tbh.


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## galaxyMLP (Jun 14, 2015)

MMS, same thing happened to me with my previous try. Now I'm even scared to try it a second time. But, I'm curious. It's a shame that it was so much work for you! I felt the same way too...


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## MagicalMysterySoap (Jun 14, 2015)

galaxyMLP said:


> MMS, same thing happened to me with my previous try. Now I'm even scared to try it a second time. But, I'm curious. It's a shame that it was so much work for you! I felt the same way too...



I read yours too and we had similar experiences. If you are doing it again, I would recommend for the oils to be a lot hotter than 200, and maybe have a powerful sb.


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## galaxyMLP (Jun 14, 2015)

I don't think it's the SB that's going to make a difference. I don't even think you have to SB it the whole time. I'm thinking that the biggest effect is going to be temp. I'm going to let it get to thick trace, sit for 5 min, blend for 1 min, let sit, ect. Blending incencently shouldn't have an effect on saponification rate after complete emulsification. 

After your results I'm going to try 250 F. I have to check the smoke point of my oils before I try that but I'm pretty sure most oil smoke points aren't until 400+ degrees.


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## MagicalMysterySoap (Jun 14, 2015)

galaxyMLP said:


> I don't think it's the SB that's going to make a difference. I don't even think you have to SB it the whole time. I'm thinking that the biggest effect is going to be temp. I'm going to let it get to thick trace, sit for 5 min, blend for 1 min, let sit, ect. Blending incencently shouldn't have an effect on saponification rate after complete emulsification.
> 
> After your results I'm going to try 250 F. I have to check the smoke point of my oils before I try that but I'm pretty sure most oil smoke points aren't until 400+ degrees.



Good luck,  I am sure your oils will be fine around that temp. And I agree,  temperature here is key into making it work. Be careful just in case it volcanoes.


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## biarine (Jul 27, 2015)

Thank you guys I found her video too as HP soaper I really intrigue and wanted to try but as I read this topic maybe I will with 100% OO. I just worried because I don't have laser thermometer instead I use candy thermometer


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## LupitaTX (Jul 27, 2015)

I follow this facebook group and I've read rude comments ridiculing her because of her methods and made her own HP group, which i follow as well, ive seen two of her videos posted and i think she has mentioned the trick is  keeping the batter warm, thats why she has multiple smaller scale crock pots, that she initially keeps warm for the process.


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## nsmar4211 (Aug 8, 2015)

*sticks nose in*

Now that I've found the right thread.... seems no one here is getting it like hers.
Soapy friend tried the method (but used her own recipe, made according to all the hints and tips the lady gave). I was "helping" (aka watching), very curious if it would work. Soapy friend didn't want to drop $65 on the "new" method so she was guessing on recipe and techniques gained from video. Ended up micro'ing the oils to get them up to temp because crockpot took forever to heat up. It did indeed swell up like you see, really cool, wasn't out of control (dish was about 2x the size of the batter mix and it didn't overflow).  Never got as fluid as the video, however, we didn't add the yogurt or maple syrup at the end... which may be the key. Soapy friend was able to do a partial plop swirl thing....  I have say, the stirring at the end (after the volcano) was way harder than the video made it look due to the thickness of the mix.  Soap did pass the drops and the zap test, and the cleanup dishes had nice lather. Her blender wasn't a happy camper, but the actual mixing was indeed only a few minutes before it did the "not sticking to blender" thing just like she shows on the video. Her temps may not have stayed hot enough, I think it went down to 170 or lower towards the end...

I'm going to try it myself, just out of curiosity. Looks suspiciously close to how I've been rebatching in the microwave, so I think I'm just going to use the microwave and a glass container to mix it in (so it retains the heat long enough). Waiting on an order of sodium lactate/stearic acid/pheno to come in . 

Downside is, I can't see doing this with a "production" sized batch. The blending would burn you and the blender out in a large batch from what I see!


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## DeeAnna (Sep 16, 2015)

Finally got a moment to study up on this .... but apparently I'm too late. Looks like the video in Post 1 is now locked down to authorized users only. Perhaps the owner's reaction to all the grief she's gotten? :sad:


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## galaxyMLP (Sep 16, 2015)

DeeAnna said:


> Finally got a moment to study up on this .... but apparently I'm too late. Looks like the video in Post 1 is now locked down to authorized users only. Perhaps the owner's reaction to all the grief she's gotten? :sad:



No, I think its becasue she put out a book about it and doesnt want people watching this video to learn about it. Instead she wants people to buy her book "complete with recipes that work with this method".

Someone posted a video (her copycat of Tviv's august challenge, she gave Tviv credit!) and she talked about the book in that video.

ETA: heres another one that shows the same stages. I didnt listen to it but I fast fowarded through it. Just watch the first part. 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pSQ6AXj5bM[/ame]


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## DeeAnna (Sep 16, 2015)

Ah, thanks, Galaxy. I appreciate the help!


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## kchaystack (Sep 16, 2015)

In the original video, she added a couple of Tsp of yogurt before she split and colored it.  That seemed to make it pretty fluid.  The video above I am not sure if she added any off camera


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## galaxyMLP (Sep 16, 2015)

I believe she adds 6% SL to her soaps (I believe she mentioned this in the FB group.) She may also add yogurt but, if I recall correctly in the original video, she said that it's the actual mixing after gel is complete/it volcanoes that makes the batter fluid (not to mention the exorbitant amount of SL)


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## ngian (Sep 17, 2015)

Well these days as I'm making 4 small batches that I compare a few soft oils (Sweet Almond, Sunflower HO, Extra Virgin Olive, unprocessed Olive Pomace), I did try to add Lye water and oils with very different temperatures because of lack of time.

The recipe was:
40% Sweet Almond / Olive Oil
30% Lard
15% Coconut
10% Palm Kernel
5% Castor

I had all the oils ready and melted (Lard) in the afternoon, and by the night I started soaping I made the Lye water. The oils were at ~30°C (86F°)while the Lye water was just ready (the NaOH was fully dissolved) and its temperature was around 70°C (158°F). So I decided to mix them because I didn't want to wait any more, and I would not use a blender at all. I hand steered for a few minutes and no sign of trace was visible. When I touched the vessel the temperature was not very high as the total temperature should have reached to maybe 40-45°C (104-113°F) considering that the colder oils were more in grams than the lye water ( I should have used the thermometer to see the real temp though). 

So I started using the blender and trace came easily and with no hurry. I think I'm going to use this method again as I hate waiting for the lye water to get colder. And then I CPOP it.







Just wanted to share this method and as DeeAnna and Susie has already stated, the soap is not cured right away, it just helps more on the waiting side for the temps to fall...

Nikoshttp://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## Punkin2x74 (Oct 4, 2015)

She is selling her book for the tutorial on this process for $70. I am also intrigued with this method but I'm not spending $70.00 on something I can do with cp and just have patience.


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## Punkin2x74 (Oct 4, 2015)

Oppsssss sorry its not her the seller is a different lady


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## kmarvel (Oct 10, 2015)

galaxyMLP said:


> It isn't cured after it is finished. But it will definitely be zap free b/c it has gone though full gel. Its just like HP in that regard.
> 
> FYI, it takes just as long to do this in the microwave and I find it to be a bit safer. I like crock pot and microwave hot process. I don't think I would try this though. I also think I would get bored/impatient and want to walk away.
> 
> I bet this would work with almost any recipe. I do microwave HP with pure OO soap and it really doesn't take more than 10 min.



Hi Galaxy,
This has nothing to do with this thread, but I was looking for someone who HP's.  I made my first HP batch yesterday and cut it this morning.  It turned out beautiful.  Soap still feels a little soft.  No zap on the tongue.  yay.
I have a couple of questions.  1) how do you know the soap is cool enough to add your fragrance??  2) I CP my soaps and cure them a minimum of 30 days.  What is a good rule of thumb for curing for HP soap??   Thanks for any help you can give me.    Kathie


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## galaxyMLP (Oct 10, 2015)

Kathie, I think these a great questions! But, I also think that it would be better as a new thread instead of being answered on here. Is there any way you can start a new thread? 

There are quite a few people who HP here and will be able to answer your questions with varied views and experience including myself.

If you start a new thread, anyone who has these questions later will be able to find the answers more easily. I hope this doesn't deter you from finding an answer.


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## kmarvel (Oct 12, 2015)

galaxyMLP said:


> Kathie, I think these a great questions! But, I also think that it would be better as a new thread instead of being answered on here. Is there any way you can start a new thread?
> 
> There are quite a few people who HP here and will be able to answer your questions with varied views and experience including myself.
> 
> If you start a new thread, anyone who has these questions later will be able to find the answers more easily. I hope this doesn't deter you from finding an answer.



Galaxy,

I started a new thread but accidentally asked too many questions.  I apologize.
I will try to google these questions.  Thanks tho!!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 12, 2015)

You can ask questions, not the same question in 3 different threads!


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## ClarityArtisanSoaps (Jun 20, 2017)

galaxyMLP said:


> You don't put fragrance in until the very end, after saponification is complete. By that point, temp should be down below 160. When I HP, I make sure my temp is below 160 before adding fragrance.
> 
> I'm not really sure why so many people are shocked by this. As an HP maker, I don't see this as being much faster than typical HP.
> 
> ...


IT definitely lasts more than 3 secs, it lasts a while. My soaps too look good after a month which I noticed lately because I have been home that few months. I use it but I also do small batches in microwave. But the SJHP soaps are nice and yes I let them site for a spell, .- I have only ever had 1 CP come out well. Something always happens with that. I can also do big batches this way and use large stockpot.

yes the blender drives me nuts

I don't use the drops and yes I use the zap method. If I get a zap I cover it with damp towel for a minute or two then try again - like reg HP.


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