# Very young castile, no snot yet



## Arthur Dent (Jul 28, 2015)

With all the recent talk about slimy snotty castile, I just had to try it.   I made a 2.5lb CP test batch on the 19th, using full water (which I now know wasn't the best thing to do), and using the "Daily Chef 100% pure olive oil" from Sam's.
  Of course I understand that it will need several months to cure properly, but I had to sneak a little test last night just to see the famous snot, after all, that was the whole point of this test batch... but I didn't get any.  All I got was a nice soft lather, though I had to work at it a bit.  Maybe the snot will appear later as it cures?  Not that I actually _want_ the snot you understand, but I was a little surprised to not see it since just about everyone talks about it.


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## Seawolfe (Jul 28, 2015)

I don't get snot on my castiles, just a soft lather that you have to work at - much like you. I love it as a facial bar and gentle body soap.  Ill admit that the lather isn't impressive, but that's not what I made it for. So I don't understand the hate either


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## KristaMarie (Jul 28, 2015)

I recently used a castile that's about four months old and it didn't start getting snotty until after a couple uses. Don't worry, your snot may still come! Haha

I don't hate castile, but I don't love it either. The only one I've used is my own, do I don't have anything to compare it to


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## Obsidian (Jul 28, 2015)

Get a bar wet and let it sit for a minute or two, then check for the slime. I don't notice the slime as much when lathering, its more when touching a wet bar. Try patting it with your palm and slowly moving it away from the soap, you might just get stringy slime.


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## Dorymae (Jul 28, 2015)

I think some people mistake the snot for softness, or in some other way actually like it. I have some castille I made last year. Dean likes it - it is definitely snot city. So I'm going to go out on a limb here and say some people just do not detect the snotty-ness and to others it's obvious. Like some like strawberry ice cream and others don't.


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## Obsidian (Jul 28, 2015)

That could be or maybe they just see a gel and not the snot. I'll try to get a video of the snot on mine.

ok, here is a video of slime. Its a bit dry, if I would have added a bit of water, I would have gotten long strings of snot.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM_97uDtobc&feature=youtu.be[/ame]


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## Obsidian (Jul 28, 2015)

Here is wetter slime. Towards the end of the video, you will see the long strings.

https://youtu.be/504qRXWS75g


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## TeresaT (Jul 28, 2015)

That is gross.  Why does it do that?


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## Obsidian (Jul 28, 2015)

Lol, its really not that bad and you don't notice as much when you are lathering the bar. Its the gel that turn into lather, thats why using a bath poof makes such a nice lather with castile.

It has to do with the way soap with high oleic fatty acids dissolve in water. Instead of making mushy soap, the soap soaks up the water and turn into gel. You should see what happen when you drop a chunk of castile into a bowl of water for a few hours.


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## JayJay (Jul 28, 2015)

Obsidian said:


> That could be or maybe they just see a gel and not the snot. I'll try to get a video of the snot on mine.
> 
> ok, here is a video of slime. Its a bit dry, if I would have added a bit of water, I would have gotten long strings of snot.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM_97uDtobc&feature=youtu.be



Nice visual! I can see how that would be nice with a shower poof. Does it give a lot of rich lather? I have never used a hand made Castile soap. 

May I ask where I can find one of those flower molds?


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## MrsSpaceship (Jul 28, 2015)

Pardon while I go off on a snotty tangent, but when I was young, we would go down to our neighbors dairy farm and help with the chores.  There was always a fresh batch of calves to be fed, and without fail, one or more would come down with some respiratory malady that caused copious amounts of mucus to drain from their noses.  These poor babies were always quarantined and bottle fed so as to not risk infecting the herd.  
At feeding time they would gather round, butting in to be the first to the bottle, then latching on vigorously.  
To keep the over zealous sucking from pulling the nipple off the bottle (which was always a mixture of milk and medication so needed to be precisely dosed), we'd hold it on, so our hands were right between their snotty little noses and the bottle.  At the end of it, our hands and frequently the front of us would be dripping with slime.  
It's funny though, for all the hard work, and mucking, the head butts that sent us wallowing... those are some of the best memories and after years in the city, I still love the smell of a farm.  
So to bring it back to the topic at hand, this is the image that was conjured with my snotty soap experience.  Although I must admit, thankfully, soap snot smells *much *better, and certainly cleans up nicer than calf snot.


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## Arthur Dent (Jul 28, 2015)

Thanks for the video Obsidian, that's very interesting.  I didn't get that effect with mine, though I didn't soak it and let it sit for a while first, maybe that's what is required.  I'll play with it some more, then let it sit for another week or so and try it again.  Really though, if it doesn't get any worse than it is right now after a good long cure, then I think I'll probably like it.  It does lather fairly well now after working it a bit, will probably be better by Thanksgiving.
Cute mold, I would like to source those too.

ETA:

Oh yes, I have been down the calf snot road too, though that was more years ago than I care to count.


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## Obsidian (Jul 28, 2015)

With a bath poof it give lots on soft, fluffy lather. By hand, it has very little lather. I got my flower mold at a kitchen supply store but I bet you could find one on amazon


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## JayJay (Jul 28, 2015)

Obsidian said:


> With a bath poof it give lots on soft, fluffy lather. By hand, it has very little lather. I got my flower mold at a kitchen supply store but I bet you could find one on amazon



Is it silicone?


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## MrsSpaceship (Jul 28, 2015)

> Oh yes, I have been down the calf snot road too, though that was more years ago than I care to count.



You and me both.  :cry:


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## Obsidian (Jul 28, 2015)

Yes, its a silicone muffin pan. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NNIJ66/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


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## Arthur Dent (Jul 29, 2015)

I tried everything I could think of, short of letting it stand in water, to get the slimy snot from mine like in Obsidian's videos, it just won't cooperate.  All I get is a soft lather.  I'm not complaining mind you, I'm perfectly happy without the snot, I just thought it was odd.  I guess I'll just be happy that mine doesn't do it and go on.  Just in case it's related to the stage of cure, I'll check it off and on over the next few months.


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## Obsidian (Jul 29, 2015)

My castle that is only a few days old doesn't make slime yet either.


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## Arthur Dent (Jul 30, 2015)

Obsidian said:


> My castle that is only a few days old doesn't make slime yet either.



Ah!  That's it then.  If somebody said this before I missed it.  Thanks very much.


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## JayJay (Jul 30, 2015)

Obsidian said:


> Yes, its a silicone muffin pan. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000NNIJ66/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20



Thanks!


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## IrishLass (Jul 31, 2015)

Here's my own snotty Castile. This picture was taken when the bar was 4-years old and just after I lathered it with my hands- very sparse and stringy/snotty lather. When lathered with a nylon pouf, though, the lather is quite copious and luscious- and I dare say even luxuriant. Unfortunately, I don't have a pic of the pouf lather:








IrishLass


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## TeresaT (Aug 4, 2015)

I finally made my first Castile in anticipation of soap snot.  I poured at light trace.  However, I noticed on another thread, y'all said you SB to thick trace before pouring.  My mold is in the oven.  Should I get it out and dump it back into the bowl and SB some more or should I just leave it alone?  I soaped at 33% lye concentration with only 3% SF.  (I have no idea why, so don't ask.  Maybe that was my "everything is in 3s today" day.)

Edit:  I also added 2oz FO and 1 (heaping) TBS bentonite clay as FO stabilizer.  I don't have kaoline clay yet.


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## shunt2011 (Aug 4, 2015)

TeresaT said:


> I finally made my first Castile in anticipation of soap snot. I poured at light trace. However, I noticed on another thread, y'all said you SB to thick trace before pouring. My mold is in the oven. Should I get it out and dump it back into the bowl and SB some more or should I just leave it alone? I soaped at 33% lye concentration with only 3% SF. (I have no idea why, so don't ask. Maybe that was my "everything is in 3s today" day.)
> 
> Edit: I also added 2oz FO and 1 (heaping) TBS bentonite clay as FO stabilizer. I don't have kaoline clay yet.


 
You should be fine as long as you are sure you reached trace.   I would watch it carefully though to be sure it doesn't separate.   Now comes the wait.....


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## TeresaT (Aug 4, 2015)

Thanks!  Yeah.  Definitely reached trace.  Thought I'd never get there!  I was leaving designs on the batter in the bowl before I decided it was good enough to pour.  They disappeared quickly, but they were there.


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## Arthur Dent (Sep 17, 2015)

At just about 2 months old, my castile is a very nice soap.  I have been using a bar in the shower every day this week, and can report nice, plentiful, foamy lather, and still no snot.  I really like it at this stage of cure.  My skin seems to really like it, this might just be my favorite for the dry winter, though it is a tough choice between this and the 80% lard which I also really like.


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## Arthur Dent (Dec 27, 2015)

5 month update:
Lots of nice bubbly lather, very nice soap.  No snot.


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## Seawolfe (Dec 27, 2015)

I have a small bar of 1+ year old castile that is super hard and I have been using at the sink for about 6 months I bet. The same one mentioned earlier in the thread actually....
Maybe because I only use it once a day, it's not near the shower, and it has a soap holder that drains super well - but I wash face and hands with it at least once a day, and EVERY SINGLE TIME I look for snot and there's no snot. I think it needs to soak up a bunch of water to get snotty.


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## penelopejane (Dec 27, 2015)

Seawolfe said:


> I have a small bar of 1+ year old castile that is super hard and I have been using at the sink for about 6 months I bet. The same one mentioned earlier in the thread actually....
> Maybe because I only use it once a day, it's not near the shower, and it has a soap holder that drains super well - but I wash face and hands with it at least once a day, and EVERY SINGLE TIME I look for snot and there's no snot. I think it needs to soak up a bunch of water to get snotty.



Hi Arthur and Seawolfe, 
I am testing a theory. I am wondering if "snot" is related to the type of OO used. 
I don't get snot on my Castile soap and I use EVOO, no fragrance but 1/2 tbs ppo of Manila honey. 

Do you use EVOO?


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## Seawolfe (Dec 27, 2015)

penelopejane said:


> Do you use EVOO?



Never, I save that for cooking  I use regular OO or pomace.


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## penelopejane (Dec 27, 2015)

Seawolfe said:


> Never, I save that for cooking  I use regular OO or pomace.



Oh well, there goes that theory!

Do you notice a difference between pomace and OO?


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## Seawolfe (Dec 27, 2015)

penelopejane said:


> Oh well, there goes that theory!
> 
> Do you notice a difference between pomace and OO?



Pomace seems to trace a little faster, and makes a whiter bar.


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## penelopejane (Dec 27, 2015)

Seawolfe said:


> Pomace seems to trace a little faster, and makes a whiter bar.



But no "snot" difference?

I can't work out why I don't get "snot" and others (including a lot of experienced soapers) do.  I guess I should just be happy I don't!


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## Seawolfe (Dec 27, 2015)

No, I have yet to see snot I my castiles, regardless of the OO. I think it's just cause I keep the bars in use really dry. Or the water in Long Beach has anti snot properties? :-?


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## cmzaha (Dec 27, 2015)

IrishLass said:


> Here's my own snotty Castile. This picture was taken when the bar was 4-years old and just after I lathered it with my hands- very sparse and stringy/snotty lather. When lathered with a nylon pouf, though, the lather is quite copious and luscious- and I dare say even luxuriant. Unfortunately, I don't have a pic of the pouf lather:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This looks very much like my 1 year old castile


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## penelopejane (Dec 27, 2015)

Seawolfe said:


> No, I have yet to see snot I my castiles, regardless of the OO. I think it's just cause I keep the bars in use really dry. Or the water in Long Beach has anti snot properties? :-?



Yes, maybe it is the water!


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## galaxyMLP (Dec 27, 2015)

I think it has to do with how long it sits in water... I have a 9 month old Castile that started with no snot but it was in a poorly draining dish. It turned to a pile of goop and now all I can use is the snot itself... It's pretty gross and the snot feeling doesn't usually bother me. I think that's why younger Castiles have more snot. When they are dry, they are really wonderful soaps and have no snottiness to them but they lather easily. I do love my Castiles.


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## Obsidian (Dec 28, 2015)

Mine snots as soon as water touches it, even a nice hard dry bar gets snotty within a minute or so. Left a bar in a dish that didn't drain once, it turned into a giant blob of slime.


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## IrishLass (Dec 28, 2015)

Like Obsidian's, mine turns to slime as soon as water touches it, too, whether they be 4-years old or 4 weeks old. They're not sitting in water either. In the soap pic of the snot from my 4-year old Castile above, the soap was 100% completely dry right before I lathered it in my hands for the pic.


IrishLass


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## Arthur Dent (Dec 28, 2015)

All very interesting.  This batch was made with tap water and "Daily Chef 100% Pure Olive Oil" from Sam's Club.  I think I gave more details of the recipe earlier on in the thread.  I have no idea why it doesn't snot like other folks' castiles do, guess I'll just be happy that it doesn't and use it, as it is very nice soap.  Hopefully the next batch will be as good... I plan to make a bigger batch on or around New Year's Day to put back and let cure for several months like some of the other folks here do.


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## Arthur Dent (Jan 6, 2016)

I think the moral of this story is to not avoid trying castile just because many say it is slimy and doesn't lather.  Some of us don't get the slime, and do get nice lather, for reasons so far unknown.  So make a small batch and let it age 4 months, try it, let it age another 4 months then try it again, etc.  You might like it.


ETA:

Never mind that naive optimism, the REAL moral to this story is that olive oil from the grocery store probably isn't really olive oil.  Dang it.


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## traderbren (Jan 6, 2016)

I have a 5 month old Castile. I poured it into my dragonfly round guest soap mold, and had enough left over for very small squares in a silicone mold. I've been testing the squares since 8 weeks. (They were ruined anyway from Mr. Soapmouse.) While the lather is non-existent at this point, I have no snot. I used whatever the cheapest Olive Oil was in a big can at the time, and I have hard water. (I didn't use distilled for that batch.) I'm very curious to read from other soapers about their castiles.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 6, 2016)

"...I have no idea why it doesn't snot like other folks' castiles do..."

I can offer a good idea to consider. Olive oil adulteration is very, very common. It's entirely possible that a not-slimy castile isn't slimy because it isn't really a 100% pure olive oil soap. A recent "60 Minutes" television show on food adulteration reported about 50% of all olive oil sold in Italy is adulterated and about 75% in the US is adulterated. 

Some adulteration in the industry consists of making a substandard OO smell and taste like a higher quality OO, but a disturbingly large amount of adulteration consists of turning another kind of oil into something that smells, looks, and tastes like OO. In the 60 Minutes show, an officer in the Italian food quality enforcement arm of the government showed how very easy it is to add a bit of chlorophyll extract to a flavorless oil such as sunflower to make an "olive oil" that only an expert taster can tell apart from real olive. 

If you are buying a "house brand" OO or a widely sold brand (Bertolli, Pompeian, etc.) it is very likely to be adulterated, and it's anybody's guess what your soap really is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olive_oil_regulation_and_adulteration
http://smallbites.andybellatti.com/the-ultimate-olive-oil-guide/
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/08/13/slippery-business


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## Susie (Jan 6, 2016)

I don't doubt for a second that all the OO I buy is adulterated.  That is why I buy one brand and stick with it.  So, at least I am dealing with the same amount of adulteration every time. 

However, I would also be interested in whether snotty castiles are more common in high humidity areas.  My one attempt at a castile is over 2 years old and still very snotty.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 6, 2016)

It's possible to make a non-olive soap that makes goo like a castile, so it's actually not the fact that the soap is made specifically from olive oil -- it's really all about the oleic acid content in the soap in proportion to other fatty acids.

If a soap with a low to moderate amount of oleic acid absorbs water, as happens when a soap sits in a wet soap dish or when a soap is used for washing, the soap typically forms a loose mush or a liquidy solution, depending on the amount of water absorbed. 

A soap with a high % of oleic acid has the unique property of absorbing water very quickly, but rather than forming a loose mush or liquid solution, it instead forms a thick Jello-like gel, and it can form this gel over an unusually wide range of water content. That's what gives a castile bar soap its slime or snot or lotiony lather, depending on your perspective, and that's why a liquid soap with a high oleic acid content dilutes easily to a nice honey-like thickness.

Enough non-oleic fatty acids (and other additives) in a soap interfere with that oleic gel formation, so the soap made with a blend of fats is less likely to form that characteristic oleic acid gel. That's why bastiles and other soap recipes with a moderate oleic acid content don't make the oleic goo, but castiles or soaps with a fatty acid profile similar to castile do get the goo.


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## galaxyMLP (Jan 6, 2016)

Here are my castile experiments and results. Please understand that this is personal experience:

This was a direct comparison of a 9 month old to a 1 month old castile with the same recipe.

1 month old: I wet the bar and there was almost no snot at first, and no lather either. After rubbing for a minute, the bar got "slimy" but I didnt have significant lather. I scraped a bit of the slime on my hands and added water. POOF! Lather abound!

9 month old: took a bit to get it going but it started lathering up pretty soon. After I kept rubbing it though, same thing happened as with the 1 month and it started getting slimy. I added more water and I was able to get a nice lather going again.

1 day later I tried both bars again. They acted almost identically. Here is my thought/ explanation.

Older bars are drier and more brittle. Because castile has such a wide range in which it makes that gel and slime, it takes months for it to feel like it doesn't have that sliminess anymore. However, once you introduce water back into the bar, it will create slime if you give it enough time. Putting down the soap bar and adding more water will break that gel level and you finally get lather. This is likely why people get good lather with bath poofs but not with the bar itself. The ratio of soap:water on a bath pouf is muuuch lower than it will be on the surface of a bar. This breaks that gel phase so you can produce lather. 

I let that 9 month old bar sit in a non-well draining soap dish and it literally tuned to goo around it after 2 days. I see why people let their bars cure for a long time but to me it really doesn't make a difference because I'll still get that snot if I accidentally let it sit in water too long or lather it up longer that I should where the water will permeate that outer layer. Plus, the sliminess doesn't bother me. 

I bet that the soap molecules formed from oleic acid coordinate well with each other with many different amount of water present so it sort of congeals instead of separating and lathering like most salts of fatty acids. 

I also think that older bars are harder so they don't let go of as much soap when they are first introduced to water. For castile soaps, that is critical. You don't want to get a lot of soap off of it. Otherwise you'll get that gel. When I use my castiles, I wet them and rub for a few seconds and put down the bar. Then I add water back to my hands or body and I get that lather that everyone is searching for.

 I also noticed that the gel has a "brainy" look if you let the bar soap sit in water and flip it over. My guess is that you are getting the oleic acid salts to gel but the other fatty acids don't so you get this "brainy" and mottled look. Its where you have spots of the bar that are hard and not gel like at all surrounded by the gel soap. I'll try to see if I can get a picture of it at home.


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## IrishLass (Jan 6, 2016)

galaxyMLP said:


> I see why people let their bars cure for a long time but to me it really doesn't make a difference because I'll still get that snot if I accidentally let it sit in water too long or lather it up longer that I should where the water will permeate that outer layer.


 
I hear ya. It doesn't make any difference with mine either. My Castile's as old as 4 years still slime up, only it doesn't take as much time or water to do it as it seems to take for yours. The sliming happens so quick on mine that sometimes I think that if I just walk up to a dry bar and merely whisper the word "water" over it, that it will turn into instant colloidal jelly faster than I could say, 'Boo, gotcha!'! 

For what it's worth, the only olive oil I've ever used in my soaps is Costo's Kirkland Pure Olive Oil (i.e., not the virgin-type). 

Also- Susie was wondering whether or not high humidity might have anything to do with it.... If my local climate is anything to go by, the answer to that is a big 'No!' I live in a very arid climate where it's as rare as hen's teeth for the humidity to go much above 36% more than a few weeks out of an entire year.


IrishLass


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## Arthur Dent (Jan 6, 2016)

Deeanna, thanks for those links.  The second one won't work for me at the moment, I'll try it again later. 
I imagine that you have hit the nail on the head... indeed, someone else also proposed the same solution to me in a PM very recently.  
How depressing, since there is no telling what oils we are actually getting, and no telling what mixture we will get in future batches of the same brand.  I suppose that what many of us make and fondly call castile is best instead called "mystery soap".


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## JayJay (Jan 16, 2016)

IrishLass said:


> I hear ya. It doesn't make any difference with mine either. My Castile's as old as 4 years still slime up, only it doesn't take as much time or water to do it as it seems to take for yours. The sliming happens so quick on mine that sometimes I think that if I just walk up to a dry bar and merely whisper the word "water" over it, that it will turn into instant colloidal jelly faster than I could say, 'Boo, gotcha!'!
> 
> For what it's worth, the only olive oil I've ever used in my soaps is Costo's Kirkland Pure Olive Oil (i.e., not the virgin-type).
> 
> ...



I make my Castile from the exact same oil. I am using an approximately 8 week old bar in the shower now and I love it. It isn't particularly snotty. I do have hard water.


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## DeeAnna (Jan 16, 2016)

On the subject of humidity, at the moment I'm visiting friends who retired to the lovely tropical island of Caye Caulker, Belize. Their guest cottage faces the open Caribbean Sea, so the humidity is always high and there is often salt spray in the air. 

I always take some of my homemade soap with me, not only because I'm spoiled about bathing with my own soap, but I'm also curious to see how the soap behaves in such a different climate. I'd have to reformulate my recipes to be less soluble if I were to live here permanently. The water is very soft ... mostly rainwater ... so solubility is not as critical as when the water is harder.

My soap, which stays firm even in a humid Iowa summer, gets somewhat softer and stays that way in Belize because soap can never quite dry out between uses in this climate.

I didn't think to bring a castile with me, but I'm pretty sure it would not be a pretty picture if I had!


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## JayJay (Jan 16, 2016)

DeeAnna said:


> On the subject of humidity, at the moment I'm visiting friends who retired to the lovely tropical island of Caye Caulker, Belize. Their guest cottage faces the open Caribbean Sea, so the humidity is always high and there is often salt spray in the air.
> 
> I always take some of my homemade soap with me, not only because I'm spoiled about bathing with my own soap, but I'm also curious to see how the soap behaves in such a different climate. I'd have to reformulate my recipes to be less soluble if I were to live here permanently. The water is very soft ... mostly rainwater ... so solubility is not as critical as when the water is harder.
> 
> ...



I am sitting in the cold mid west right now.... VERY jealous of you. 

Enjoy your time.  It founds fantastic!


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## DeeAnna (Jan 17, 2016)

Thanks, JayJay. We save up all year for this treat, and I'm making the most of it.

To keep this soap related, most of the bars I brought with me are scented with mint in various blends. Mint is really nice in the warmth and high humidity. Refreshing!


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