# Second batch of soap - strange crack across the top



## Cookie (Dec 20, 2014)

Hi Everyone,

I've finally had time to try the basic vegetable soap recipe again, no colour and no fragrance.  This time I had all the right ingredients on hand and my appliances were working correctly :grin:

I'm not sure whether I waited too long to put it into the mold, it was like a thick custard, I guess a medium trace or past that, I don't know?

So here is my recipe


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## Cookie (Dec 20, 2014)

And here is what the soap looks like 2 hours later. The darker area to the right is just a shadow from the light directly above. I put a cardboard lid on it and wrapped it in a towel.  Can someone tell me is this what it would normally look like at this stage? The first batch I left alone so I have nothing to compare it to. Also, the crack down the middle is obviously not normal, can anyone say what I did wrong?

Thanks.


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## Cindy2428 (Dec 20, 2014)

Cookie, cracks like that are usually indicative of heat; overheating in the middle. Your soap should be fine. Looking at the outside edges, I imagine you achieved a full gel. If your soap is still warm you can use a spoon and close/smooth the crack. If it's hard, it will still be okay. What was your soaping temp? - oils and lye water when mixed and temp when you poured into the mold?


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## Cookie (Dec 20, 2014)

Thanks for the info Cindy2428. The lye mix was 44 and the oils were about 52 celcius. Would closer and cooler be better? Kind of managed to close the crack with the flat of a spoon, it's much less obvious at least.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 20, 2014)

Did you put anything else in, anything sugary?

Even with out that, can easily over or under insulate until you get a feeling for it


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## Cindy2428 (Dec 20, 2014)

No, from what I've learned, in CP the standard is to try to stay within 10 degrees, so I think you are fine.  All of the different variables in soap are what make it so fascinating - and sometimes frustrating to me. Options for you if you find you like this recipe - no need for the extra towel; just cover and see what happens or try soaping a little cooler - 38. It may not seem like much, but even a few degrees can make a big difference. Finally, you could try a little less water. I recently attended a conference with Dr. Kevin Dunn; (I'm still trying to get my head around my notes), but the bottom line of his conclusions were the higher the amount of water used resulted in higher. So, you could try 35% water and keep all of your other variables the same. One of the most important lessons I've learned here is only change 1 thing at a time. It gets so tempting; you see all the beautiful soaps here and you try to do too much too soon - ask me how I know . The good part is, as I am perfecting my "it" soap, I'm learning it inside, outside and backwards and can almost make it in my sleep. All part of the addiction I suppose. Congratulations on a successful soap!


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## Cookie (Dec 20, 2014)

Thank you both.  No, nothing else at all added.  Will definitely try cooler next time and no towel covering.

I'm confused about gel. Do I want it or not?  Or is it a matter of personal choice, and it affects just the appearance of the soap?


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## Cindy2428 (Dec 20, 2014)

Again, another variable. It's basically your preference. A full gel - the Vaseline type appearance you get will tend to make your colors show stronger and bolder. A partial gel will leave a ring in the middle of your soap. Just aesthetics, but most people want all or none. I haven't tried it yet, but for no gel, you want to cool the soap as fast as possible by putting it in the freezer or fridge. I have some partial gel soap that needs two more weeks of curing - will post a picture later.


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## Cookie (Dec 20, 2014)

Thanks, soooo much to learn :roll:


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## Cindy2428 (Dec 20, 2014)

Actually, I think that's the best part. I find once I "master" something I get bored and move on to something else. Not with soap. I don't think I'll ever be able to complete my list of things I want to try - but I'm sure gonna try! Keep reading here, watch videos, (be careful, you need to filter the education level of some folks out there). Soaping101 and Soapqueen TV are two great places to start.


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## Cookie (Dec 20, 2014)

Thanks, I haven't watched much in the way of videos yet, I'll be sure to check them out


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## navigator9 (Dec 20, 2014)

Just FYI, custard stage is past heavy trace. Heavy trace is still smooth and  pourable, custard stage, probably clumpy, moving toward mashed potato,  which has to be scooped out, and then the mold banged hard on the  counter to remove air pockets. Next stage, soap on a stick!

As far as gel goes, yes, it's a matter of preference, but gel does have one benefit. The heat produced makes the soap go through the saponification process faster. That means that the soap will unmold cleanly the following day. Ungelled soap takes longer to saponify, and to unmold cleanly, and may zap for days. It's good to try both, to see which you like best.


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## Cookie (Dec 20, 2014)

Thanks Navigator9 that's a very clear explanation. Mine would have been at thick trace given what you've said because it was definitely still pourable and not lumpy. I'm going to make one more u scented and uncoloured batch. All being well then I will make a batch with colour. What stage of trace should the colour be added at? Can the colour be added without it's weight being taken into account?  I know if I add special oils at trace I have to allow for them in my calculations. Thanks for the help.


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## navigator9 (Dec 20, 2014)

Cookie said:


> Thanks Navigator9 that's a very clear explanation. Mine would have been at thick trace given what you've said because it was definitely still pourable and not lumpy. I'm going to make one more u scented and uncoloured batch. All being well then I will make a batch with colour. What stage of trace should the colour be added at? Can the colour be added without it's weight being taken into account?  I know if I add special oils at trace I have to allow for them in my calculations. Thanks for the help.



First, having to add "special" oils at trace is a myth. The lye is still active at trace, so will react with whatever oils it encounters. Add any special oils in with the rest.

Second, what type of coloring will you us?. And no, the weight of the color does not have to be accounted for.


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## cmzaha (Dec 20, 2014)

navigator9 said:


> Just FYI, custard stage is past heavy trace. Heavy trace is still smooth and  pourable, custard stage, probably clumpy, moving toward mashed potato,  which has to be scooped out, and then the mold banged hard on the  counter to remove air pockets. Next stage, soap on a stick!
> 
> As far as gel goes, yes, it's a matter of preference, but gel does have one benefit. The heat produced makes the soap go through the saponification process faster. That means that the soap will unmold cleanly the following day. Ungelled soap takes longer to saponify, and to unmold cleanly, and may zap for days. It's good to try both, to see which you like best.


As far as unmolding it depends on your recipe. A recipe primarily using soft oils and ungelled will take longer to unmold. A recipe with harder oils and less water will still unmold the next day even if not gelled. Ungelled soap can stay zappy for 72 hrs, otherwise unless lye heavy it will no longer zap.


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## Cookie (Dec 20, 2014)

I'm so thankful for all the time people here take to respond to questions. I know it still ends up being trial and error as to what you like and what works well for you. But it certainly makes it an awful lot easier to understand where I've gone wrong when there's no way I'd be able to work it out myself. And to avoid mistakes all together just by reading posts
:wave:

I bought a sample batch of colours so I have some powders and some liquids to choose from. Haven't decided what I want to use yet.  I really want to try the faux funnel pour, but will certainly save that for later

At the class I went to the lady told us to add our special oils at trace because adding them earlier means that the lye will destroy them. But that totally makes sense what you're saying, the lye is still active at trace so what difference does it make when you add them. Ok so my next question then is is there any point using fancy (read expensive) oils at all?

Thanks for the explanation about unmolding times. Does the faster time for unmolding with gelled soaps mean that the cure time is also shorter?  Should it still be cured for four weeks?


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## Susie (Dec 20, 2014)

A couple of points:

1.  Any video maker that says that HP is ready to be used within a week(or the next day!) is one you can skip.  They are not the safest folks to listen to.

2.  If you do watch videos, be sure to run all recipes through a lye calculator for yourself.  You can't trust other people's recipes without verifying, regardless of source.

3.  Whether it is worth using fancy oils or not is going to be up to you.  I find the answer is no.  Some would not ever make soap again without a certain oil.  You need to make a batch using plain oils(CO, OO, lard/palm/tallow, castor), then substitute in 5% of your special oil, then 10% of your special oil, etc.  See if it makes any difference to you.  I have found that 5% of special oils is not better than my regular recipe, except in shampoo bars.  I like what jojoba does to my hair.


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## Cookie (Dec 20, 2014)

Thanks for that Susie, I'll be saving that info for swapping the oils a few percent at a time for a little further down the track when I start playing around


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## Cookie (Dec 21, 2014)

Zippedy Do Da!  I have soap!


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## Cookie (Dec 21, 2014)

No zap at all 
The vertical lines are just creases in the baking paper which I'm not worried about at the moment.


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## Cookie (Dec 21, 2014)

Now comes the wait....boo boo!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Dec 21, 2014)

Good work on covering the crack! Looks very good


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## Cookie (Dec 21, 2014)

Thanks for your encouragement


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## Susie (Dec 21, 2014)

Yep, good job!  Looks like another addict gets added to our ranks!


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## Seawolfe (Dec 21, 2014)

That is a LOVELY batch of soap! Congratulations


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## Cookie (Dec 21, 2014)

Thanks guys :wave:


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## Dahila (Dec 21, 2014)

I do not know if anyone put your attention on temps but 10 degree is in F not Celsius.  it would be more or less up to 3 C(maybe even less) of difference in temps of oil and lye. I keep one degree or two, I am metric person too.   Nice soap


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## Cookie (Dec 22, 2014)

Thanks Dahila, that's good to know.  I've amended my notes so I can remember that for next time


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## vuladams (Dec 28, 2014)

Yay! Congrats @Cookie on your soap! I've cracked a few times when I over insulate based on the formula. Each recipe I make a note on how I insulate it, and after how many hours I should cut it. Keep in mind that the insulation process is totally different between wood molds and silicone molds. That was something I learned the hard way! Just read up on it before you ever switch. My first several batches in silicone overheated because I wasn't prepared for the difference. 
Lovely soap!


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## Cookie (Dec 28, 2014)

Thanks for the info vuladams . I don't remember seeing that info anywhere. I spent yesterday morning tidyng up my soap diary and added a new page of hints so I'll definitely be adding that. I just ordered a new soap mold online and it's silicone and I've only used wood so far, good to know about different insulation needs


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## vuladams (Dec 29, 2014)

Cookie said:


> Thanks for the info vuladams . I don't remember seeing that info anywhere. I spent yesterday morning tidyng up my soap diary and added a new page of hints so I'll definitely be adding that. I just ordered a new soap mold online and it's silicone and I've only used wood so far, good to know about different insulation needs




@Cookie - when I use my silicone molds, I set the timer for 30 mins after I pour so I can check the heat status, then decide if I need to add or remove insulation; or pop it in the freezer (thankfully, I've only had to do that twice in five years.) When I use my silicone log molds, I lay a piece of bubble wrap over them, with air flow on the sides. Or I'll use a paper towel. I do not lay a towel over them like with wood molds. However, when I use my silicone molds that have individual cavities, I will lay a piece of wax paper or bubble wrap over them and place a towel folded twice over them - since they're smaller they don't heat up as much. So, play with it when you get them because they are totally different than working with wood molds. For some reason, I find that bubble wrap keeps the perfect temperature for my recipes, and I just reuse the same pieces over again.


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## Cookie (Dec 30, 2014)

Thanks vuladams, I'll be coming back to this when I use the silicone mold for the first time.  Appreciate you sharing your experience with me


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