# Creams/ lotions Calculator????



## Vidasworld12 (Jul 20, 2017)

Hi Everyone, 

Im brand new to this whole lotion/cream etc  making.
Im interested and have been reading up on swift crafty monkey - wow ALOT of info .. wow ..

ok so very stupid question , but im lost - where is the calculator you use to figure out the amounts ? not trying to sound dumb, but all this reading ive done and I havent come across any info regarding this.. I know theres one, because im sure people are using it .. but I haven't found anywhere that it tells me where to find it??? is the whole sale supplies one the one??I heard it being mentioned on a youtube tutorial . I really appreciate all comments/ advise

thank you all in advance.


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## dixiedragon (Jul 20, 2017)

To my knowledge there is no free lotions / creams calculator. I think I've heard about some paid ones, but I can't recall where. 

I use the guidelines from BB for percentages and build a spreadsheet.


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## Vidasworld12 (Jul 20, 2017)

Ohhhhh , ok I see now ... I was so lost

Thank you !!


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## toxikon (Jul 20, 2017)

I believe most of SCM's recipes use percentages, no? Should be easy to convert them to grams. You could do a 1:1 conversion for ease's sake if you don't care too much about batch size. For example, if the recipe is 60% ingredient A and 40% ingredient B, then just use 60g ingredient A and 40g ingredient B.


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## Vidasworld12 (Jul 20, 2017)

THAT makes so much sense ! 

my concern is the preservatives and F/O

I dont want to mess that calculation up ..


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## IrishLass (Jul 20, 2017)

I'm not sure which calculator the YouTube video you watched had referenced, but if you are looking for an HLB calculator (which folks that create their own emulsification systems for their lotions instead of using self-emulsifying systems such as e-wax or BTMS use), I found this one online at Making Skin Care (they offer a free downloadable PDF): http://www.makingskincare.com/hlb-calculator/

Also, here is a link to bunch of links on SwiftCraftyMonkey's blog that explain the HLB system: http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/p/hlb-system.html 

You might find this helpful, too (they give ratios for different lotion ingredients): 
https://www.cheatography.com/emmajane/cheat-sheets/ingredient-ratios-for-lotion-making/#comments

Or if are you looking for something more simple, I found this: 
http://www.sbwave.com/lotion/ 

 Also, here are a few threads that I found that might be helpful: 

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=52878

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=36447


IrishLass


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## dixiedragon (Jul 20, 2017)

I used this as my starting point:

If you’re feeling adventurous and want to experiment with other oils and butters, you can design your own recipe. To create your own recipe follow these guidelines:
70-80% Distilled Water
3-5% Stearic Acid
3-6% Emulsifing Wax
add the rest in your choice of oils and buttersTo this add
.5 – 1% Preservative
.5% Fragrance


For my personal use, I like to have the weights in grams, then I have a little converter built in to tell me the final total in ounces so I can know the number containers I need. I also measure my preservative and my scent by volume (yes, I'm so naughty) so I put in a note of how many grams (of water) = how many teaspoons. Mine also has a reminder to let the mixture cool to 140 before adding the Phenonip (my preservative) b/c it is deactivated at a higher temp.


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## Vidasworld12 (Jul 20, 2017)

IrishLass said:


> I'm not sure which calculator the YouTube video you watched had referenced, but if you are looking for an HLB calculator (which folks that create their own emulsification systems for their lotions instead of using self-emulsifying systems such as e-wax or BTMS use), I found this one online at Making Skin Care (they offer a free downloadable PDF): http://www.makingskincare.com/hlb-calculator/
> 
> Also, here is a link to bunch of links on SwiftCraftyMonkey's blog that explain the HLB system: http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/p/hlb-system.html
> 
> ...




YOU ARE AWESOME!!!!!

Thank you so much! im lost with swift crafty --- theres so much, I keep jumping around from one post to another because I cant find them in order..
so much infooooo

thx again



dixiedragon said:


> I used this as my starting point:
> 
> If you’re feeling adventurous and want to experiment with other oils and butters, you can design your own recipe. To create your own recipe follow these guidelines:
> 70-80% Distilled Water
> ...




this is great thxxxx so much ..
This is not like making CP soap lol thats easy stuff


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## cmzaha (Jul 21, 2017)

Here is WSP's batch calculator and their percentage calculator. They will both work for lotion if you know the percentage of ingredients you want to use
http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/calculators/Batch_Size_Calculator.aspx
http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/calculators/Percentage_Calculator.aspx

I usually use a spreadsheet a kind person on another forum sent me, but sometimes use the above calculators


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## Arimara (Jul 21, 2017)

I made my own, based on the info from SwiftCraftyMonkey. it's nothing fancy but it helps me when I make lotion.


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## Saponificarian (Jul 21, 2017)

I feel your pain. I was in your shoes 9 months ago. My baby had eczema and nothing was working which was what set me on this B&B quest.

Advise from a newbie like you, don't try to make your own emulsification system yet. It is daunting if you haven't even made a batch of lotion yet. Try to make a batch of lotion at 100g. I can knock up a recipe for you if you want using the oils and butter you have. Use e-wax or polawax(I strongly recommend this). Usage rate of e-wax is at 25%of your oil phase plus 1 while polawax is 25% of your total oil phase.

(If you are using 20g oil phase, 25% of 20g is 5g. 5+1 =6g)
If using Polawax, You will use 5g polawax.  I have been making lotions and body butter for almost 10months now using Polawax and I have never had a lotion fail (knocking on wood). The one time I had an epic lotion fail was the one time I bought cheap Polawax from a suspect website. Buy from reputable suppliers please. I buy mine from Brambleberry. 

It does get better I promise. Fast forward 10months, I make all our products now. Soaps, creams, body butter, conditioner, shampoos, scrubs, toners. Everything and all I learnt from Swiftcraftymonkey


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jul 21, 2017)

What do you want in a calculator?


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## Dahila (Jul 21, 2017)

First decide what percentage of ingredients you like , everything must be summed up to 100%  then ie 70% Of water times 5 and you got 350 water for 500 g batch . when you have percentage it is the easiest way to calculate.  Let's say you need the 500 g , sum all you calculation it must be 500 g, remember if you add any silicone you count is (it goes to cool down phase) for emulsifier amount. Very easy
For years I used this way calculating on piece of paper When you have too much take out from water, then if not enough add to water,  and also add at least 10% of water phase for evaporation, not whole batch just add all water ingredients


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## Vidasworld12 (Jul 21, 2017)

cmzaha said:


> Here is WSP's batch calculator and their percentage calculator. They will both work for lotion if you know the percentage of ingredients you want to use
> http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/calculators/Batch_Size_Calculator.aspx
> http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/calculators/Percentage_Calculator.aspx
> 
> I usually use a spreadsheet a kind person on another forum sent me, but sometimes use the above calculators



yes, thats the one.... thxxx 
I saw this on a youtube tutorial but wasnt 100% sure

thxxx



Saponificarian said:


> I feel your pain. I was in your shoes 9 months ago. My baby had eczema and nothing was working which was what set me on this B&B quest.
> 
> Advise from a newbie like you, don't try to make your own emulsification system yet. It is daunting if you haven't even made a batch of lotion yet. Try to make a batch of lotion at 100g. I can knock up a recipe for you if you want using the oils and butter you have. Use e-wax or polawax(I strongly recommend this). Usage rate of e-wax is at 25%of your oil phase plus 1 while polawax is 25% of your total oil phase.
> 
> ...



It's so over whelming on her website , soooo much info and you have to go through it all to get to the first posts she made... alot I mean alot

yes I can get Polawax from New Directions - they are down the street from me  Im just dying to eventually make face creams cause I pay a FORTUNE for mine at sephora and we all know they arent the most natural - Im not getting any younger , I can use some really good stuff  

Yes pls help me make up a recipe - ive filled up half of my note book already with research notes --- theres still sooo much I just need to do it already

thx for your great advise, thx for taking the time



The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> What do you want in a calculator?



I was thinking ( hoping ) it was like the soap calc
you put in the ingredients and voila - all the calculations just pop up

I see this is diff now - not hard , cause everyone is explaining it now



Dahila said:


> First decide what percentage of ingredients you like , everything must be summed up to 100%  then ie 70% Of water times 5 and you got 350 water for 500 g batch . when you have percentage it is the easiest way to calculate.  Let's say you need the 500 g , sum all you calculation it must be 500 g, remember if you add any silicone you count is (it goes to cool down phase) for emulsifier amount. Very easy
> For years I used this way calculating on piece of paper When you have too much take out from water, then if not enough add to water,  and also add at least 10% of water phase for evaporation, not whole batch just add all water ingredients



thank you! sometimes its easier when the whole forum explains it lol 
I see it now, honestly before I wasnt getting it 

thank you all so much !


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## DeeAnna (Jul 21, 2017)

I have made my own spreadsheet for lotions and creams that is based on the limited number of ingredients I choose to use. I wouldn't dream of putting it out on the internet -- there are just too many variables to deal with. Different emulsifiers require different usage rates, some work only for lower pH or no cationic ingredients, some are temperamental to use, some need a specific method of mechanical mixing. And there is no universal correlation between the % of emulsifier to thickener -- that is fixed by the person's preferences and the overall performance of the finished product. Preservatives are used at different rates depending on the likelihood of microbial growth, some can't be added to the heated phase, some are inactivated by pH or the presence of certain ingredients. And I haven't even touched on the myriad additives that can be included in a lotion -- how could one keep track of all their usage rates and chemical interactions? Nor the endless variations on how people choose to make their lotions.

If you think about it, the soap calculators have a much easier job. We usually make soap from one or two alkalis (KOH and/or NaOH), fats, and water. Once the list of fats is compiled and the saponification and fatty acid calculations are set up, the calculations are straightforward. But a soaper can easily step outside this basic box and when that happens, the soap calcs are not much help. A person can use a different alkali for saponification such as ammonium hydroxide or sodium carbonate. Or an unusual method of making the soap, such as the "boiled" method. Or she can include additives that interact with the saponification reaction (borax, acids, sodium carbonate, etc.) In that case, the soap calcs are not much help -- you are back to doing the calculations on your own.


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## Vidasworld12 (Jul 21, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> I have made my own spreadsheet for lotions and creams that is based on the limited number of ingredients I choose to use. I wouldn't dream of putting it out on the internet -- there are just too many variables to deal with. Different emulsifiers require different usage rates, some work only for lower pH or no cationic ingredients, some are temperamental to use, some need a specific method of mechanical mixing. And there is no universal correlation between the % of emulsifier to thickener -- that is fixed by the person's preferences and the overall performance of the finished product. Preservatives are used at different rates depending on the likelihood of microbial growth, some can't be added to the heated phase, some are inactivated by pH or the presence of certain ingredients. And I haven't even touched on the myriad additives that can be included in a lotion -- how could one keep track of all their usage rates and chemical interactions? Nor the endless variations on how people choose to make their lotions.
> 
> If you think about it, the soap calculators have a much easier job. We usually make soap from one or two alkalis (KOH and/or NaOH), fats, and water. Once the list of fats is compiled and the saponification and fatty acid calculations are set up, the calculations are straightforward. But a soaper can easily step outside this basic box and when that happens, the soap calcs are not much help. A person can use a different alkali for saponification such as ammonium hydroxide or sodium carbonate. Or an unusual method of making the soap, such as the "boiled" method. Or she can include additives that interact with the saponification reaction (borax, acids, sodium carbonate, etc.) In that case, the soap calcs are not much help -- you are back to doing the calculations on your own.




yes I know , theres just so much to it.. not as easy as you would think 
I honestly just started researching it cause I wanted a more natural/ less expensive face cream... 

yikes ... I might just step back and keep making soap


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## DeeAnna (Jul 21, 2017)

Anne Watson has a good book called Smart Lotionmaking. She has sensible step-by-step advice about making lotions and provides nice recipes to get started with. She keeps things fairly simple, so she doesn't overwhelm the new person. Her book is also very affordable. http://www.annelwatson.com/books/Lotionmaking.html


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## Saponificarian (Jul 21, 2017)

Vidasworld12 said:


> It's so over whelming on her website , soooo much info and you have to go through it all to get to the first posts she made... alot I mean alot
> 
> yes I can get Polawax from New Directions - they are down the street from me  Im just dying to eventually make face creams cause I pay a FORTUNE for mine at sephora and we all know they arent the most natural - Im not getting any younger , I can use some really good stuff
> 
> ...



Here goes the recipe: For face cream, I like it light, dry feeling and as much softening I can get. 

For 100g.        
Water Phase.                   Water Phase
74.45% Water                  74.45g Water
2% glycerin.                     2g glycerin 

Oil Phase.                         Oil Phase
5% Mango butter.              5g Mango butter( Dry feeling but softening. Love it. 
5% Rice Bran oil.               5g Rice bran oil(phytosterol and Ferulic acid
5% Pomegranate oil.          5g Pomegranate oil (For the Pucinic acid
2% Cetyl Alcohol                2g Cetyl Alcohol( Prefer the glide of Cetyl to Stearic   
4.25% Polawax.                 4.25g Polawax 
                                        2g Fragrance oil/Essential oil
2% Fragrance/Essential oil (Please check usage rate for your essential oil) Not too much fragrance though since its face cream. 
0.3% Liquid Germal Plus.     0.3g Liquid Germal Plus(Preservative) 

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any question. I will be glad to help


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## Vidasworld12 (Jul 21, 2017)

WOW Thank you so much! I didn't expect this ... you are amazing
thank you so very much- i know the rules when it comes to giving up recipes so this is greatly appreciated ..

Have a great day !!!! im on my way to order the pomegranate oil.. im so excited to finally get this going


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## Saponificarian (Jul 21, 2017)

It's a pleasure. Glad I could help. Let me know if you have any questions. By the way, Niacinamide will be lovely in this if you can get it. Add 2%(2g) remove 2g from water. Also Liquid Germal plus is heat sensitive so add it when temp is not more than 45degree Celsius. 

Step1a. Weigh out the water phase ingredient in a beaker
Step1b. Weigh out the oil phase. (Oils, butter, Cetyl)
Step 2. Put both beaker in a double boiler. Once the temp of both the water and oil phase reaches 70 degree Celsius time it for 20mins (I leave it for 25mins) just to be extra sure the 'nasties be dead'
Step 3. Combine both together. Hit with your stick blender not more than 20-30 secs for 100g and stir.( just to be sure the water and oil are combined. Then walk away. Seriously no more stick blending until later. 
I try to make sure the temp difference is not more than 5 degrees when combining both oil phase and water phase
Step 4. When it's at 45 degree Celsius put it back on the scale, tarred the scale and add your preservative and fragrance. Pulse the mixture with your stick blender for 5secs. 
Step 5. Yeah! You just made your first lotion. Now you get bragging rights.


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## dixiedragon (Jul 21, 2017)

I think the sticking point of a lotion calculator would be the e-wax. I see sellers call it e-wax, conditioning e-wax, Polawax (which is a specific brand) but there is no recipe or list of ingredients or any type of numerical values on the package that I see. I suppose you could figure out an average of how much oil + water 1 ounce (or 1 gram or whatever) would be emulsified by (some unit of measure) of e-wax. 

But then other ingredients do factor in, I think. It's my understanding (and I could be totally wrong here) that solid waxes (beeswax, soy wax), stearic acid and cetyl alcohol contribute to / support emulsification. So I think that if you have a recipe that has stearic and e-wax, and you totally remove the stearic, you would need more e-wax.


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## Dahila (Jul 21, 2017)

Saponificarian, you are bit too low on Ewax you should have 4.7 % to be exact,  You probably do not count essential oils, then butters are not good in facial lotion.  Maybe babassu a bit of babassu would help to keep it stable, Mango is good for other things, it would clog my pores I do know that  Pretty nice lotion BTW
People who make lotion for few years start to know exactly how much to add, what is working what does not.  
Dixie I tried and had my first epic lotion fail.   I removed cetyl because using BMTS-50 it still should be stable light water lotion,  It never thickened at all. I had wasted 500 g of lotions,  Now when I make some changes I go with percentage and make juz 100 g to check it for stability and to test it .  
It is like DeeAnna said, everything needs different percentage and there is not rule like stable rule.
I have so many to test, right now I am testing with my best friend gel with Fruit aminoacids and it is very light and good, but expensive to make
Nothing exites me more than making lotions


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## Saponificarian (Jul 21, 2017)

Hi Dahila. It goes to show how forgiving Polawax is. I have never figured in fragrance oil or essential oils into my calculations and I have never had a lotion fail. Except the one time I got cheap Polawax from a dodgy website. I don't use E-wax sorry. I love Mango butter in face lotions, face scrub etc. Guess you just have to find out what your skin likes.

ETA: I don't use Cetyl or Stearic acid in my body butter anymore. My oil phase is like 45% with Polawax and I use at least 10% butter so I get my stearic acid from my butters. You just have to experiment to find out what works for you.


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## Dahila (Jul 21, 2017)

Yes polawax is forgiving,  I make lotions for a long time, actually started from lotions then went to soap.  I use Ewax only in deos or sugar scrubs it is too greasy for me. try to make one lotion with cetyl esters and no butters, you could be surprised how well it works 
I stopped using Polawax when used first time BMTS-50, the best of the best and Lotion pro 165  I really know what my face , skin likes 

You did not get me at all  it must be my English :twisted:


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## Saponificarian (Jul 21, 2017)

Of course Dahila, I totally understand you. What I meant when I said that you have to experiment to know what your skin likes is that each person that wants to make lotion needs to experiment with different oils and butters to know which ones their skin likes. 

I have used and still use Cetyl alcohol if my oil phase is 20% or below because it helps with Stability, thickening and glide but because my body butters have all those butters( Like 4) I have found I don't need Cetyl because the butters help thicken, stabilize and help with glide. Especially Illipe and Kokum. 

I am actually eyeing Lotion pro and Simulgreen right now.


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