# Salt water in soap



## weefroggy (Jun 1, 2015)

So I am interested in making a batch, but instead of making a regular salt bar, I would like to replace water with saltwater, anyone do this?  I am wondering how much salt to add to the water? I also do a split with water/goat milk and wondering if the salt would affect the milk.
Thanks
Heidi


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## Dahila (Jun 1, 2015)

http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/S.../Soleseife-or-BrineSalt-Water-Soap-Recipe.htm
First link on google


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jun 2, 2015)

There are also a few threads on here. Search for 'soleseife' and it should show the past discussions and what people found works best when making it


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## not_ally (Jun 2, 2015)

I love brine/soleseife bars.  I use a "regular" recipe (eg, one of my "basic" recipes that I used w/the last brine bar:  63% lard, 20% coconut, 10% olive, 7% castor, 7% superfat) and add 25% of the volume of the *water* (not oil) amount in salt to the water, which I heat so that the salt completely dissolves, and let it cool before I add the lye.  I don't exceed that salt amount, as I read somewhere that there would be problems with oversaturation/non-dissolving above it.  

I also add 3% sodium lactate, a TB of 50/50 sugar solution ppo and ETDA - I have hard water - and between those things (all of which are supposed to help with bubbles a bit) my lather is fine despite the high salt amount and keeping the coconut fairly low for a high salt bar.

After that, I proceed as usual.  I usually CPOP, and do with this as well, but keep an eye on it b/c it sometimes (a) gets pretty hot and (b) it hardens fast, so you would generally want to unmold/cut sooner than usual.  I do love these bars, plenty of time to swirl, they are hard, quick to set up, v. moisturizing, good lather.

ETA:  not sure about the milk, though, sorry.


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## dixiedragon (Jun 2, 2015)

I am curious on salt bars vs soleseife/brine bars. Pros and cons? I would think the only difference would be you wouldn't have the scratchy salt crystals in the brine bar.


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## not_ally (Jun 2, 2015)

Dixie, I only made one salt soap bar and was not impressed, but that may have been due to my mistakes/inexperience.  For me, it traced quicker, and I didn't like the way it swirled/looked/cut as much after unmolding.  I love the soleseife bars b/c I can use a recipe which I know works for my (extra dry) skin, the salt makes it feel feel super rich and even more moisturizing, it doesn't trace fast, makes the bar hard (unmolds and cuts very fast but is not crumbly), just easier to work with and makes a great, great-feeling, pretty bar.  I think they are my favorite, but I really only make soap for me, my friends just have to live with whatever the result is, at least for now.


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## Obsidian (Jun 5, 2015)

Dixie, a salt bar shouldn't be scratchy. You should only use fine grained salt, medium/coarse can scratch or even cut the skin. I've made both  types and like them both but I prefer regular salt bars. They lather better and make me feel cleaner. Pros, great lather, super cool smooth bars, good skin feel. Cons, can accelerate and be hard to cut.

The soleseife do make a prettier bar though, the salt/lye solution is real milky and it makes your soap creamier looking and your colors a bit more pastel-y, at least it does for me. With soleseife you don't need as much coconut but you don't get quite the same thick lather but its still nice. 
Pros, easier to work with then regular salt bars, not as crumbly to cut, you still get the benefit of salt. Cons, reduced lather, no cool super smooth bars, no crazy thick lather.


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## SoapSap (Jun 9, 2015)

not_ally said:


> I love brine/soleseife bars.  I use a "regular" recipe (eg, one of my "basic" recipes that I used w/the last brine bar:  63% lard, 20% coconut, 10% olive, 7% castor, 7% superfat) and add 25% of the volume of the *water* (not oil) amount in salt to the water, which I heat so that the salt completely dissolves, and let it cool before I add the lye.  I don't exceed that salt amount, as I read somewhere that there would be problems with oversaturation/non-dissolving above it.
> 
> I also add 3% sodium lactate, a TB of 50/50 sugar solution ppo and ETDA - I have hard water - and between those things (all of which are supposed to help with bubbles a bit) my lather is fine despite the high salt amount and keeping the coconut fairly low for a high salt bar.
> 
> ...




I just made a test batch following your outline above. I used one of my Lard formulas that is different but is slow acting. I am very curious and eager to see how it comes out with the 25% salt solution. It made the lye solution rather thick and it remained a white color. It did not become clear as usual. I am not CPOP this time.


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## not_ally (Jun 9, 2015)

Let us know how it turns out, soapsap.  That is the only pain part about this whole process, no instant updares.   I hope you love it.


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## SoapSap (Jun 9, 2015)

not_ally said:


> Let us know how it turns out, soapsap.  That is the only pain part about this whole process, no instant updares.   I hope you love it.




I will be happy to do that. When I cut it I will post a pic and when cured I will post my evaluation. I am so pleased to learn that salt soap can be made other than the process where the salt is added to the batter. I did not like the idea particularly of having the big salt crystals in it or not being able to do much color work.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jun 9, 2015)

Bear in mind that it isn't a salt soap when compared with a soap where salt was added - soleseife uses a lot less salt (25% solution in the water rather than between 25% to 100% of the oil weight) and can often use a standard recipe rather than needing almost all co. 

I would be wary of saying that salt soap can be made without adding salt to the batter. Brine soap (or soleseife) are made that way, but they are not the same as a salt bar.


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## SoapSap (Jun 10, 2015)

Thanks. I will remember that. I may just have to make a Salt BR then to do a comparison. So one is a salt brine soap, and one is a salt bar - and are two completely different animals.


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## SoapSap (Jun 11, 2015)

Wow! I made the salt brine soap with 25% salt solution and it is not good. See from my 1lb. Test batch picture. I cut one bar after 24 hours an it seemed a little too soft and a big chunk fell off. So, I waited another day and just sliced the rest.  The bars crumbled still see also from the photo that the surface is sandy like, not smooth as most soap slices are. The soap cut easily and was not too hard or too soft today. My only guess is too much of a salt saturation. 




Can I save this in any way in a rebatch?  I used Ancient  Sedona Fragrance Oil for scent and it smells so nice. I hate to waste any soap if there is any hope of salvaging.


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## not_ally (Jun 11, 2015)

SoapSap, I am so sorry.  Mine get hard really fast - sometimes I they are hard on the outside while still gelling on the inside after 30 ms or so, I have to keep an eye on them so that I cut fast enough, but they have never been that crumbly.  What was your recipe?


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## Seawolfe (Jun 12, 2015)

Theres a learning curve to when and how to cut salt bars, I imagine its the same for solseife bars as well?


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## not_ally (Jun 12, 2015)

I just realized you cut after 24 hrs, that is probably it, I agree w/Soleseife.  I CPOP (an hour at 150)  so they harden even faster.  I usually cut within an hour or so after taking them out of the oven unless they are still soft for some reason.  I am pretty sure that is it, I just tried to cut off a little piece to test from a bar that I made a few days ago, and it was crumbly.  You need to keep an eye on these suckers and usually cut them pretty fast.


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## SoapSap (Jun 12, 2015)

not_ally said:


> SoapSap, I am so sorry.  Mine get hard really fast - sometimes I they are hard on the outside while still gelling on the inside after 30 ms or so, I have to keep an eye on them so that I cut fast enough, but they have never been that crumbly.  What was your recipe?




The formula was:
30% Lard
35% Olive Oil
30% CO
3% Castor Oil
2% Palm Kernel Oil Flakes

3% Super Fat
36% water of Oil weight
29.071% Lye

I mixed at temperature of about 95 degrees. 

Additives:
25% Sea Salt to weight of water was mixed into lye water
1 tbs dissolved sugar

No Sodium Lactate. I decided it might be on the hard side already because of the salt. 

I have made this exact formula at least 3 times before and it comes out very well and is slow moving.


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## dixiedragon (Jun 12, 2015)

Obsidian said:


> Dixie, a salt bar shouldn't be scratchy. You should only use fine grained salt, medium/coarse can scratch or even cut the skin. I've made both types and like them both but I prefer regular salt bars. They lather better and make me feel cleaner. Pros, great lather, super cool smooth bars, good skin feel. Cons, can accelerate and be hard to cut.
> 
> The soleseife do make a prettier bar though, the salt/lye solution is real milky and it makes your soap creamier looking and your colors a bit more pastel-y, at least it does for me. With soleseife you don't need as much coconut but you don't get quite the same thick lather but its still nice.
> Pros, easier to work with then regular salt bars, not as crumbly to cut, you still get the benefit of salt. Cons, reduced lather, no cool super smooth bars, no crazy thick lather.


 
I used the extra-fine #40 pink salt. If I scrubbed the bar on my body I definitely noticed occasional sharp spots.


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## kumudini (Jun 12, 2015)

SoapSap said:


> Wow! I made the salt brine soap with 25% salt solution and it is not good. See from my 1lb. Test batch picture. I cut one bar after 24 hours an it seemed a little too soft and a big chunk fell off. So, I waited another day and just sliced the rest.  The bars crumbled still see also from the photo that the surface is sandy like, not smooth as most soap slices are. The soap cut easily and was not too hard or too soft today. My only guess is too much of a salt saturation. View attachment 14485
> 
> 
> 
> Can I save this in any way in a rebatch?  I used Ancient  Sedona Fragrance Oil for scent and it smells so nice. I hate to waste any soap if there is any hope of salvaging.



Looking at your pictures Im thinking that some of either the lye or salt or both came out of solution, as parts of your soap actually look smooth and real creamy. Nice colors too. May be it would help to strain the lye solution before adding it to the oils. Just a guess, as it did happen to me when I tried to add salt to a mostly soft oil recipe to help with hardness. I strained the lye solution and the soap was fine. I will be adding SL from now on and reserve the salt for a salt or brine bar.


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## SoapSap (Jun 13, 2015)

Vkumudini said:


> Looking at your pictures Im thinking that some of either the lye or salt or both came out of solution, as parts of your soap actually look smooth and real creamy. Nice colors too. May be it would help to strain the lye solution before adding it to the oils. Just a guess, as it did happen to me when I tried to add salt to a mostly soft oil recipe to help with hardness. I strained the lye solution and the soap was fine. I will be adding SL from now on and reserve the salt for a salt or brine bar.




Good suggestion. I will strain the lye next time.


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## not_ally (Jun 13, 2015)

Soapsap, the recipe looks fine.  I do strain the lye with this soap, just to make sure there are no undissolved bits, I just smush any of the solution that is still thicker through the strainer.  But your soap actually looks just like the brine one I cut after 24 hours as a tester, I don't know if that is it, or the timing of the cutting.


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## weefroggy (Jun 15, 2015)

Thanks, It is officially on my list of bars to try.


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## not_ally (Jun 15, 2015)

Froggy and Soapsap, just went back and checked my notes.  Some of the crumbliness in Soapsap's soap *may* have come from the FO although I still think the cutting time was an issue. 

If you want to try brine and are concerned about crumbling, I would (a) not CPOP (I still will, 'cause I like it, but that might be an issue depending on your recipe/FO); (b) keep a careful eye on readiness for cutting; and (c) use a well-behaved FO.  I think people have reported occasional ones w/the one I had a bit of a problem with (BB's Tobacco Bayleaf).  I have not used Ancient Sedona, the one Soapsap did, so don't know if that was a factor.  

My oil mix, again, in case that made a difference - Lard 63%, Coconut 20%, Olive 10%, Castor 7%.  

Here's my notes on the three brine soaps I did w/r/t FO's (sorry for the big font, cut and pasted from my online notes, having probs reformatting.)

"Additional notes:  different results w/heat/hardening on these soaps. Results for all three (CPOP'd all): 

Tobacco Bayleaf got very hot and a teeny bit crumbly, though hard on the outside aft @ an hour and cut then though still hot/a bit soft on the inside.  Both the Teakwood Cardamom Honey and Cuke Wasabi Cilantro/Bonsai were perfectly hard and unmolded/cut perfectly w/in an hour.  FO differences?  Unclear."

ETA:  The honey in the Teakwood Cardomom Honey blend was a well behaved FO, not actual honey, which I might avoid here b/c of the additional sugar and resulting additional heat if that is a problem for you.


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## Obsidian (Jun 16, 2015)

I just made a batch of brine soap and cut it after about 6 hours, even that was a little long and it crumbled on some of the edges.


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