# Hi folks! How do I speed up trace in olive oil soap?



## Rune (Feb 13, 2017)

This is my second attempt of making soap. I made a batch two days ago, that failed completely, in every way possible. That was not olive oil, but canola/rapeseed. So today I decided to make an olive oil soap, because I have read that rapeseed is not a good oil to use. I have also seen on Youtube that olive oil is very slow to come to trace. It's not any better that I don't have a stick blender (yet).

So I made my batch with 50 ml water discount to 1 liter of oil with 4% superfatting, and mixed the water and oil when the oil was about 50 degrees celsius and the lye around 70 (I am a norwegian, and we don't use fahrenheit). I dumped it in the stand mixer and let it go for ages and ages, and ages and some more ages. I added sugar, since I have read that that could speed up trace. No. I added a hot sugar syrup as well, but no. And fragrance, but nothing happened. So I eventually took the soap out of the stand mixer and gave it a gentle heating on the stove, before I threw it back in the mixer again. But still nothing. 

Well, the batch was emulsified, and I guess that was fine, but I wanted a thick trace, so that I could make some swirls. That never happened, but I was able to make a sort of swirl in the pot before i dumped it in the more than perfect little moulds I found in the supermarket today. I don't think, at least I hope, nothing will go wrong this time. But I don't know until tomorrow. 

But anyway. I want to make some more soap, not today but maybe tomorrow, and will be very glad if someone know of a trick to get olive oil soap to come to a thick trace, without a stick blender?


----------



## kchaystack (Feb 13, 2017)

What lye concentration were you using?  I usually use a 40% concentration on my castile soaps.


----------



## Susie (Feb 13, 2017)

Did you run that recipe through a lye calculator?  And did you weigh all your ingredients?  I ask because all of soapmaking is done in weights, and your ingredients are in volume.  Also, how much NaOH did you use?


----------



## Rune (Feb 13, 2017)

Lye concentration, hmm, I think I don't know what that is. But I used a lye calculator (Brambleberry). So I used 116 grams of lye to 250 grams of water. 50 ml, yes, sorry I wrote that, I mean 50 grams (which also is 50 ml). I did weigh everything except from the oil. I should have made sure it actually was 909 grams. But I used a calculator that said 1 liter of olive oil should weigh 909 grams, so I just dumped my whole 1 liter bottle of oil in there. But the next time, I will weigh the oil as well.

Aha, now I remember what a lye concentration is. The calculator from Brambleberry doesn't let you choose that. I must find another calculator, because I have seen other calculators let you choose lye concentration. I will try to find out what the actual lye concentration I used was.


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 13, 2017)

Try http://soapee.com -- many people like this calc much better than soapcalc.

Try anywhere between 33% to 40% lye concentration for olive oil soap -- whatever you are comfortable with. I'd agree with KC and think 40% is a good choice, but not everyone is comfortable with that idea. Increasing the lye concentration would also have been a good choice for the canola/rapeseed batch.


----------



## kchaystack (Feb 13, 2017)

That is about a 31% concentration.  Basically you can use less water to make a stronger lye solution, and it will cause the soap to trace faster.

I do not like the brambleberry calculator, as it does not let you change the lye concentration.  I use Soapee.com.  Under box 3, you can choose the middle  Lye Concentration option and set that to 35% - 40%.


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 13, 2017)

Problem with assuming 1 L of oil = 909 grams is that you do not know you put exactly 1 L of oil in your soap making bowl. There is always some oil left behind when pouring out of a container.  For best results, always weigh what goes into your soap making bowl.


----------



## Seawolfe (Feb 13, 2017)

Stick blender - your stand mixer doesn't go fast enough to really mix the molecules up.
I've also had luck with just leaving the darn batter alone for ~ 10 min while I do something else


----------



## Rune (Feb 13, 2017)

Now I tried a ton of lye calculators just now, and none gave me the lye concentration AND the amount of water you should use. It was actually Soapee I used to find out it was between a 31% and 32% lye concentration. I really, really like Soapee. So I think I will use that from now on.

The next time I will use a 40% concentration and no less. That should help a lot. Thanks! 

I guess a regular blender will do a better job than a stand mixer. I found an old blender in a shed outside, so I will try that one next (if I can't find a stick blender before the next batch of soap will be made). Gasoline is very, very expensive in Norway, and they have put up some cameras you have to drive tru on the way to the town, I don't know the english word for it, but you get a bill afterwards. It costs a total of 10.25 dollar just to drive thru them on the way to town and back! So I don't feel driving extra to town just for a stick blender. It will be an expensive one. Since I work only 40%, I can't afford too much expences.

In this country, where everything is very expensive, we do have cheaper lye than in America. 50% cheaper. And we can buy lye in the supermarkets, so it's easily available. Oil is very cheap too, without knowing american prices for oil.

My olive oil was by the way a strange one. A blend between virgin or extra virgin and a low grade, which I guess it's called pomace or something.


----------



## Rune (Feb 13, 2017)

Yes, you are right, I will weight the oil the next time. Companies do always cheat, so maybe it was not even a liter of oil. 

I did leave the soap alone for a while, maybe 20-30 minutes, but nothing happened. Yes, stick blender is the number one thing that works. I think I shall find one online and and order today, then it will arrive in a couple of days and I don't have to drive anywhere.


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 13, 2017)

"...Companies do always cheat, so maybe it was not even a liter of oil...."

Or maybe the calibration of the filling machine was off and the container held MORE than one liter. That is the problem -- you do not know.


----------



## TeresaT (Feb 13, 2017)

Rune said:


> Gasoline is very, very expensive in Norway, and they have put up some cameras you have to drive tru on the way to the town, I don't know the english word for it, but you get a bill afterwards. It costs a total of 10.25 dollar just to drive thru them on the way to town and back! So I don't feel driving extra to town just for a stick blender. It will be an expensive one. Since I work only 40%, I can't afford too much expences.


 
Is the word you are looking for TOLL?  Do you have to pay a toll to travel to and from town where you live?  Is there another road you can take to get to where you want to go, or do all of the roads have this camera system?  We have toll roads in some areas of the country, but those are voluntary roads; there are always alternate routs to take.   The toll roads usually have booths to pay your tolls.  We also have camera operated stop lights.  If you speed through a stop light (not stop when you should), it takes a photo of your car tag and you get a fine in the mail.  Where I live, people complained and stopped driving in the cities that used them.  Those cities lost revenue for their businesses as well as tax dollars.  They eventually took the cameras out.    Maybe something like that could happen where you live?  If enough people complain about the high price it will go away?


----------



## earlene (Feb 13, 2017)

Besides using a higher lye concentration, using more pomace olive oil also speeds trace.  You said your OO was a mix of both, but do you know what percentage was pomace?  I like to use regular OO as half the recipe and then the other half is pomace.  It comes to trace pretty quickly by hand stirring with only a spoon.  I'd say less than 15 minutes.  

Another trick to speed trace, is to use Titanium Dioxide as a colorant.  It speeds trace, too.



Rune said:


> I guess a regular blender will do a better job than a stand mixer. I found an old blender in a shed outside, so I will try that one next (if I can't find a stick blender before the next batch of soap will be made). Gasoline is very, very expensive in Norway, and they have put up some cameras you have to drive tru on the way to the town, I don't know the english word for it, but you get a bill afterwards. It costs a total of 10.25 dollar just to drive thru them on the way to town and back! So I don't feel driving extra to town just for a stick blender. It will be an expensive one. Since I work only 40%, I can't afford too much expences.
> 
> In this country, where everything is very expensive, we do have cheaper lye than in America. 50% cheaper. And we can buy lye in the supermarkets, so it's easily available. Oil is very cheap too, without knowing american prices for oil.
> 
> My olive oil was by the way a strange one. A blend between virgin or extra virgin and a low grade, which I guess it's called pomace or something.



I'd like to caution you about using a regular blender, if the kind you are talking about is sort of like this:







The problems you can run into are: 
1.   Deterioration of the gasket surrounding the blade (this can happen over time as it ages, due to drying out, shrinkage and cracking) can cause leaks
2.  The lids of the older blenders (the ones I used when they first came out) were not secure and therefore leakage from the top can occur when blending.  In fact, the lids have been known to 'fly off' in the presence of too much internal pressure.
3.  In older blenders (not sure how old yours actually is) the blade is not removable, making cleaning very difficult.
4.  If you over-blend, you can burn out the motor (just like you can with a stick blender.)
5.  If the soap gets too thick too fast, you could end up with solid soap stuck inside your blender, which would be extremely difficult to remove.

There are solutions to these issues.  You can replace the gasket.  You can hold the lid on tight with your gloved hand and a rag covering the lid when running the blender.  Cleaning is possible, but needs to be thorough because the lye is not friendly to the gasket.  And of, course, not over-blending.


~ ~ ~ ~
Oh, and we call those toll cameras. I hate the toll billing.  I'd rather have a national toll tag system, but we don't have that here.  Maybe some day.  Now I have two toll systems that work in some states, but not all states.


----------



## Catastrophe (Feb 13, 2017)

Chicago's toll system irritated the crap out of me.  I know I owe it money.  Hopefully I will never be there again


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 13, 2017)

I went to Florida in early October and rented a car to drive to the Florida Keys. My credit card is ~still~ getting charges from the Miami toll system. I called the rental company in December to ask. The lady there sighed and said, "Let me guess -- you went to Florida." I told her yes, we rented a car in Miami. She sighed and said, "That's just how the Florida toll system works. We don't like it, customers don't like it, but we can't get it changed." It's FEBRUARY fer cryin' out loud -- four whole months.


----------



## cherrycoke216 (Feb 13, 2017)

If your old blender won't work, maybe try dig something up in tool shed? Like a paint mixer, a drill...? You just have to make sure it's very clean for you soap.
I've seen people reinvent a drill into a stick blender. Maybe try search that on YouTube. 
And I have used a juice blender for soap, too. You just use caution like Earlene mentioned. Pour it out at EMULSION. Not trace. If you're not using colorant and fragrance oils, you'll be fine to use it for juice, too. Just clean it well with warm water and dish detergent.


----------



## navigator9 (Feb 14, 2017)

I don't know if this might be a cheaper option for you...to order a stick blender from amazon.uk. If you find out what a stick blender would cost in Norway, and added your cost of gas to drive where you would need to purchase it, maybe this would be cheaper. A stick blender makes soapmaking SO much easier.  https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B017MNIPMW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20


----------



## Susie (Feb 14, 2017)

If you are ordering a stick blender, get one with a stainless steel, removable wand.  It makes clean up so very much easier!  The plastic bells will soften if making liquid soap as the temperatures are much higher.


----------



## Rune (Feb 14, 2017)

Yes, toll road, exactly, thanks!

There is only one road, so there is no ways around. That is actually illegal, because it should be an alternative route, according to the EU. But the norwegian government have got a special permition from the EU to have toll roads everywhere. This toll station will never go away, because they are about to build a very expensive bridge to shorten the distance to Narvik, and the old road must finance the new bridge. So now we don't have a bridge, but have to pay anyway. 

The costs to build and maintain roads are extreme in this country. We don't have a single spot that is flat, mountains everywhere. So I guess that is one of the reasons this toll barriers are put up everywhere.

The cameras is a modern type of toll booth. So they take a picture of the number plates, and the registered owner of the car will get a bill every month. It's an automatic system. I guess it's to cut costs of administration.

Yes, maybe the bottle of oil was more than a liter. I am starting to suspect that. My soap will not set! It's still quite soft. But it's gone about 20 hours since i poured it. Maybe that's too short time? I will check on them tomorrow, and see if there is any improvement. 

Since I was whipping the soap with my stand mixer for a long time (whip attachment), the mixture cooled down quite fast. That's maybe the reason for why it doesn't go solid faster. Not that I know how long time it should take, but I remember from Youtube videos that they cut the soap the next day.


----------



## navigator9 (Feb 14, 2017)

Susie said:


> If you are ordering a stick blender, get one with a stainless steel, removable wand.  It makes clean up so very much easier!  The plastic bells will soften if making liquid soap as the temperatures are much higher.



Susie, sorry but I have to disagree there. I have a more expensive stainless steel Cuisinart blender that I used for years after I burned out the motor on my first SB. After I had it for a while, I thought it would be a good idea to get a back up SB, just in case the Cuisinart ever died in the middle of a batch. So I bought the cheapest plastic SB that I could find, and I actually like it better than the more expensive one, which sucked air into the soap batter and caused tiny bubbles in the finished soap. I've had it for many years now, and I've yet to have a problem with it, and I don't find it any more difficult to clean, and there are some cheap ones that do have removable wands. I use it as my main SB now, and the Cuisinart is my back up. That being said, I don't make liquid soap, so I don't know how it would hold up to higher temps, so I can't comment on that. For that purpose, it might not be the best choice.


----------



## Rune (Feb 14, 2017)

I don't remember how many parts was extra virgin or virgin and how much was pomace. I have thrown the bottle already. First of all, I am not sure if it actually is pomace at all, or if pomace is something that is sold here. Nothing has that description on the bottles. Usually the low grades are extracted by heat.

Aha! I found out. Pomace is a grade we do have in Norway, but it's not legal to mark that as olive oil. It has to be called something else, cooking oil or something. And pomace is not normally sold in supermarket. Most sold to restaurants and other customers with special needs. 

The oil I bought was marked as an olive oil, so it was for sure not any pomace in the blend. It must have been refined olive oil mixed with some cold pressed oil. It was very cheap, so it was for sure more than 70% refined, or more.

Yes, it's a sort of blender like that I have, but not so fancy. It's some old plastic crap. But I ordered a stick blender yesterday. A very powerful one, 800 watt. And it had a separate container to chop up stuff. I will definetely need that for the next soap I will make, an oatmeal and apricot soap.

I ordered some essential oils from England. I got a letter yesterday, and thought it had arrived. But no, the bloody customs have STOPPED the parcel, and demanded documentation. Grr! It's almost not possible to order anything from abroad anymore. So now, my precious oils (that I found for cheap, except the true sandalwood), are going to take forever to arrive. And I am sure they will send me a hefty bill, charging VAT and everything. The sandalwood is the one I am waiting hardest for. I will use it as a perfume, and not put a single drop of it in any soap. It was not cheap.

The next time I find something to order, I must ask the companies to wrap it in gift paper and write "Happy birthday" all over the parcel. That should work. I got a parcel from the Chech Republic that was a fake birthday gift, and it went straight thru customs. We are not full members of the EU, that's why everything has to go thru customs in the first place.

Okey, then our toll road system is not as bad after all. At least we don't have different systems from town to town (we have almost no big cities) and they bill you only once. But I think it would be a lot better with a little extra tax on every single person, and free roads everywhere.

I have seen on TV that you have roads with lighting in the middle! Like in the asphalt. These roads here are very narrow, almost no lights nowhere, and very, very much bends. In fact, there is very few straight roads. In the south of the country, maybe, but definately not here in the north. These roads are actually dangerous, but we are so used to them, so we manage and drive like normal. But the tourists, they are really scared and drive really slow. When we drive in 90 km/h in the summer, the tourists drive in 50 km/h. But other tourists again, they are cycling! And that is really, really dangerous. I don't dare to cycle along this narrow roads with heavy traffic and corners everywhere, absolutely not. It's actually a miracle that all this tourists survive the holiday.


----------



## BattleGnome (Feb 14, 2017)

Rune said:


> Yes, maybe the bottle of oil was more than a liter. I am starting to suspect that. My soap will not set! It's still quite soft. But it's gone about 20 hours since i poured it. Maybe that's too short time? I will check on them tomorrow, and see if there is any improvement.



Is your soap soft like play doh or putty? Or is your soap still liquid?

It easily takes me 72 hours or longer to unmold my soaps and most of my soaps have coconut in them. Can you post a picture of what it looks like now?


----------



## Rune (Feb 14, 2017)

I found some really cheap stick blenders in Norwegian webshops, the same price as the one from Amazon in England, but I thought it would be better with a more powerful one. So I bought one for 47 dollars. Too expensive actually. But it's stainless steel and I hope it's more silent than the cheap plastic ones. But the most important feature, it had several speed settings. I guess that is handy. And the bowl with chopper blades, that is somethin I really need. I had a magic bullet, and liked it very much, even if it's some noisy crap that does not work as seen on TV, for sure not. But it has disappeared. I know my uncle borrowed it, and I am sure I never got it back. But he can't find it. So this little bowl to the stick blender to chop onions and everything, that was a feature I need to have, since I have been missing my magic bullet for a loooong time.


----------



## dixiedragon (Feb 14, 2017)

Rune said:


> I have seen on TV that you have roads with lighting in the middle! Like in the asphalt. These roads here are very narrow, almost no lights nowhere, and very, very much bends. In fact, there is very few straight roads. In the south of the country, maybe, but definately not here in the north.


 
I think those are reflectors, not actual lights. They are placed so that, ideally, the headlights of the car will catch them and they will reflect dramatically, looking like they have their own light source.

You may want to start a thread, something like "Norwegian soaper looking for supplies" and maybe some folks from Norway will chime in.

Are you determined to make 100% olive oil soap? Because if you are not, using some lard, some tallow, some palm will make this a lot easier AND a lot cheaper.

Another option may be hot process. Do you have a slow cooker?


----------



## Seawolfe (Feb 14, 2017)

I have had soaps take up to 5 days before I could unmold them - they were full water and did not gel. So just leave it for a while and check later.


----------



## Rune (Feb 14, 2017)

BattleGnome said:


> Is your soap soft like play doh or putty? Or is your soap still liquid?
> 
> It easily takes me 72 hours or longer to unmold my soaps and most of my soaps have coconut in them. Can you post a picture of what it looks like now?



Yes, it's like play doh, exactly. Not liquid at all. 72 hours, aha, okey. Then I'll just have to wait some more. I used olive oil only, and 4% superfatting. So I guess the extra fat makes it softer for a longer time. It's not separating or anything, so I guess the soap is fine. I am just glad I can't see some obvious disasters, like in the first batch of soap I made. That was a mess from beginning to end.

I can think out a way to take a picture AND get it loaded in my computer. To transfer from my phone is impossible for whatever reason I don't know. I can hardly charge this old Iphone. Sometimes it takes hours only to get it to start charging. Maybe the phone is too old for the cables, or anything. So I have given up that a long time ago. I have a DSLR camera, but need to buy batteries first. It eats batteries like cookies. So I can take a picture when I have new batteries.


----------



## artemis (Feb 14, 2017)

Rune said:


> I can think out a way to take a picture AND get it loaded in my computer.



Do you have the SMF app? It's pretty easy to post a photo with that.


----------



## Rune (Feb 14, 2017)

dixiedragon said:


> I think those are reflectors, not actual lights. They are placed so that, ideally, the headlights of the car will catch them and they will reflect dramatically, looking like they have their own light source.
> 
> You may want to start a thread, something like "Norwegian soaper looking for supplies" and maybe some folks from Norway will chime in.
> 
> ...



I thought it was like LED lights or something. A very clever solution. Something we should get here as well. 

I just used olive because I read that canola/rapeseed is not a good oil to use. Olive oil is cheap ($1.30 per liter), and so is rapeseed. Palm oil is not available at all, as far as I know. Lard, I have seen that, but can't remember where. Tallow is not cheap here. Maybe directly from the butchers or something, but not in shops. Coconut oil is relatively expensive as well. We have a limited supply in supermarkets. But maybe in Sweden. I wiil look for oils the next time I drive there to buy cigarettes.

BUT, I can order oils from where I work, oils meant for the professional market. I will check the catalogues and see what I can find, and the prices. I am sure they have a little bit of everything available.

In supermarkets, we have a type of deep frying fat, that consists of shea butter, coconut oil and canola oil. It is a solid fat. I want to try that because of the shea butter, but I don't know the proportions between the fats used in the mixture, so it will be impossible to calculate lye.

Supplies is available, especially from the UK. Shipping from the UK to Norway is really cheap. If I order not too much at a time, it will go straight thru customs. I think the limit is 41 dollars. If we don't order for more than that each time, it's no problem. But where to find oils and butters at bargain prices, that is something other soapers in Norway may know about. So thank you for the tips, I will start a thread and ask for that. 

I like natural colorants and fragrances. Not that I have anything special against synthetic materials, but I think it is an extra something with the natural ones. When summer comes, I will see if I can make some of my own.


----------



## Rune (Feb 14, 2017)

SMF app, hmm, I didn't manage to find out what that is. But I'm sure I don't have it, since I don't even know what it is. The problem is not to post anything, as long as I can find it on the computer, but to get it from the phone and into the computer. When I plug in the cable, I can't find the telephone symbol. Nothing happens. So I can't find the pictures so that I can transfer them over from the telephone and then post them. I have tried bluetooth and another thing I can't remember the name of. Airdrop, I remembered now. But my phone is totally hidden. Like it's a spy phone or something. So I can't use the phone for anything else than calling. Pictures are stucked inside there, forever. I have an Iphone 3-something. Very, very old. That is maybe the whole problem. Too old for todays technology.


----------



## penelopejane (Feb 14, 2017)

you don't need the app to upload photos from your iPhone to SMF. Just do it through your browser. No cables required!


----------



## mx5inpenn (Feb 14, 2017)

You could always just email them to yourself from the phone, then download them on the computer.


----------



## Catastrophe (Feb 14, 2017)

mx6inpenn said:


> You could always just email them to yourself from the phone, then download them on the computer.



That's how I do it.


----------



## Alison9712 (Feb 15, 2017)

I add beeswax to my olive oil soap, about 1-2%.  That might speed up your trace. At least it will give you a nice hard bar of soap when you do reach trace.  Best of luck.


----------



## cherrycoke216 (Feb 16, 2017)

www.articles.sun-sentinel.com/1992-05-09/news/9202070323_1_waste-authority-glass-macleod
Glittering asphalt. It's recycled  glass.  Taiwan uses same thing, too. Actually kinda cool. Like diamonds in the asphalt. 


https://www.payetteforward.com/my-iphone-wont-charge-heres-the-real-reason-why/

You can use wifi option and email photo from phone. It's in the " SETTING" and click open. Then connect your phone and computer. And email to yourself from phone.
https://www.howtogeek.com/214080/how-to-turn-your-windows-pc-into-a-wi-fi-hotspot/

I have iPhone 5 and there's no phone symbol when I plug in. If I recall correctly. Maybe it's your cable or that hole you put cable in is not so clean. See website 2 above, a toothbrush can help.
And if I recall correctly, you plug in the computer and phone, theirs options you can choose from. Like " just upload photos" and " sync" etc.
Or ask others for iPhone cable, maybe it's just old cable and bad connection. This is why I miss NOKIA so much! Idiot proof and a phone with lasting battery and just won't fell off the ground and become crap. Only if northern Europe production line are still available to the market...


----------



## Rune (Feb 16, 2017)

I took photos and tried to send them to myself with e-mail. A great, great idea I never have thought of. Well, I did, and everything went fine. But suddenly, a question about passwords popped ut. I found the password, but then an error message came popping up. And my e-mail server had blocked the attempt to send because it was insecure and bla-bla. Well, I changed the settings so this insecure thing could be sent, and changed the password to an easy to type one. But no, still error, error and error. Grrr! So I gave up. I will now try the cable one more time, miracles may happen. I have managed to upload pictures from my phone to the computer before, but that suddenly stopped. Maybe it's working again.

Anyway, I unmoulded the soaps yesterday. Still relatively soft, like hardened play doh. They had sweat a bit. Something came out of the, and I suspect it is the fragrance oil. I did use what I had, and that was a cinnamon fragrance meant for oil burners, and a vanilla essence (artificial), meant for baking. Plus that I added cinnamon spice, the powder, you know. But, I just wiped the soaps down, so not a big problem at all.

Today, the soaps have hardened really well. It's even an ash layer formin on one of them. That is normal, I have heard, and I am very glad if things go like normal, since it's almost my first attempt ever. It is my second, but the first was a huge disaster. This second try looks great, and even smell great too. I do see something that looks like gel phase, or is it discoloration by the vanilla or the cinnamon powder? Who knows without you seeing the pictures. 

The first attempt smelled horrible! Really horrible. I thought it was the smell of lye. Maybe it was, since I was not dissolving the lye properly either and used far too much of it. But the second attempt is so far seeming to be a success! So I am very happy, and want to make more soaps. But I will definately wait for my stick blender to arrive. I will not use my stand mixer for soap making, for sure not. 3 hours of whipping the batter at relatively high speed, that is a pain for the ears, and will never whip up to a thick trace.


----------



## earlene (Feb 16, 2017)

Rune, just sitting out to open air helps the soap to dry out faster, as I am sure you are discovering now.  

The fragrances you used might be a concern, though.   I'm not sure the one for oil burners is actually skin safe.  Do you still have the bottle so you can read if there are any warnings on the label?   I have purchased some in the past that are fine for the intended purpose, but have a warning that they are not skin safe.  I wouldn't put them in soap.  Just a suggestion that you double check for skin safe usage rates when adding anything, Essential Oils, Fragrance Oils, even Spices to your soaps.


----------



## Rune (Feb 16, 2017)

I found an easy way to upload to computer from phone, without cables. I have not tried cleaning the cable and so on, and the other tricks Cherrycoke says can work. But I just sent them to myself on Facebook, and downloaded them to the computer from there. And that worked like magic. 

My phone is ancient, and the camera is really horrible. So I excuse for the lousy quality.

But here are the second try soaps, that I hope will come out okey in the end.

I know I'm not supposed to dry them like this, touching one another. But they won't stand up on themselves, because of the sides are not flat. But I dry them under a thing I don't know the english name for. Like an air conditioner, only that it blows hot air instead of cold, but it can be adjusted to blow cold air as well. We use that thing in the cold Norway to keep our indoors warm.


----------



## shunt2011 (Feb 16, 2017)

The fragrance you used is likely not skin safe.  I wouldn't use them personally.   You MUST use fragrances made specifically for skin use.   Also, Vanilla has alcohol in it and will cause issues in the soapmaking process like seizing.


----------



## cherrycoke216 (Feb 16, 2017)

The sweat could be a lot of things. Fragrance oil ooze out / weep out, lye water weep out, or just humidity is too high, or temperature change too much and make the soap sweat ( like you gel it intentionally or not, and the snow outside make it cool down so fast) 
Fragrance oil for oil burner... You should double check the bottle, to see if it's skin safe. Like Earlene above said. Things in spice cabinet like cinnamon and ginger can be used in soap, but you have to watch the usage rate. Because they can be irritant to someone if used too much or in mucus membrane area ( genital and butt, eye, nose ) Try search X ingredient + usage rate ( usually people write it in Y teaspoon or tablespoon in per pound of oil ). And I've seen folk who are selling said on the forum he use vanilla essence in soap. ( * note that he uses it with oat flour or clay to make the vanilla essence "stick to the soap" ) it's ingredients often contains alcohol or propylene glycol, which will accelerate the soap to trace faster.  And cinnamon is an accelerator, too. So in your case, you're lucky not end up with a soap in a bucket. 
But you will pay more attention to it if your saturated fatty acid is higher ( means you use more solid fat like coconut, Palm, tallow, lard or expensive vegetable butters like Shea, mango, cocoa) 
The thing you're describing... Blows hot/ cold air/ wind out, is it air conditioner? Yes, it can act as a dehumidifier or fan to get the air flowing faster. 

And iPhone photo hasn't improved much, don't worry about it.   your soap looks like red bean ( azuki bean in Japanese) soup, very cute. I like the cinnamon line. And also like your vase ( or tea pot ) drawing. Very delicate! You can dry your soap flat. Just lay they down, and flip after a few days if you like.


----------



## Rune (Feb 16, 2017)

Yes, it's maybe not skin safe at all. But I thought if it was safe enough to inhale, it would be somewhat not too bad for a soap you will wash off. And it was an emergency solution, since I had no fragrances or essential oils. Yes, it must be the propylene glycol that is coming out, most likely. I did use plastic moulds, with a lid. So humidity was trapped inside.

I am not so sure if cinnamon, vanilla and that sort of stuff excelerates trace. Because it for sure did not. Maybe I used too little. I used maybe 50 drops in total.

The speckeled look, I think that is most because I used food coloring paste, and since I had no stick blender, it was not incorporated properly. So it is sort of drops of all colors, growing in size, plus the color of the cinnamon powder making brown dots. I like the look too 

Air condition, aha, so that is the name of the thing. If I should translate the norwegian word to english, just as it is, it would translate to "heat pump". So I had no clue it was the same as an air conditioner, which I thought were the opposite, only blowing cold air. We use the word air conditioner here as well, but not for the heat blowing ones. So in cars, we use two words, air conditioner and "heat apparatus" (directly translated). But it is just one unit, the one that heats or cools your car.

I must order some colorants and fragrances from the UK, but can't until after 8th March, since I must wait for the salary to arrive. Now I'm broke :-( But, there must be a lot of natural colorants and fragrances that can be used. Do you know of anything, for example from supermarkets, that can be used to color or scent a soap, or do both? I can pick moss outside to make green color, or spruce branches. Cocoa powder can make brown color. But what about blue, yellow and red?


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 16, 2017)

Yes, the English name is "heat pump" for a machine that heats or cools air. Most air conditioners only cool.


----------



## penelopejane (Feb 16, 2017)

DeeAnna said:


> Yes, the English name is "heat pump" for a machine that heats or cools air. Most air conditioners only cool.



In Australia we call it a reverse cycle air conditioner. A heat pump is something different here in Australia. 

You are better off making a fragrance free soap than using a non skin safe FO. The skin does absorb stuff especially in the heat of the shower.


----------



## earlene (Feb 16, 2017)

There are a lot of things you can use for natural colorants.  Some color  well and stick, while more of them fade over time.  I haven't used them  all, so am no expert.  If you do a browser search for 'natural  colorants soap making' you'll get a lot of results.  It may be easier  for you to do the search in your own language (Danish?) so the results  are easier to read and understand.  But here are a couple I have used in  the past:

http://www.lovinsoap.com/2011/07/natural-soap-colorants-gallery-spice-and-herbal-powders-at-trace/

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art50548.asp

http://www.modernsoapmaking.com/join-jo-coloring-soap-naturally/

http://www.diynatural.com/natural-soap-colorants/

And one on the not totally natural colorants:

https://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/tips-and-tricks/talk-it-out-tuesday-colorants/

Re: a heater/cooling device with a fan, here they can be called a few  different things.  A 'heating cooling fan' is one thing they are called.   Some manufacturers call them 'air circulator'.  I've seen them  advertised a lot of ways.  I have one that looks like this and it's  advertised as an 'oscillating fan', which blows cool or heated air as well  as moving side to side while blowing the treated air.


----------



## earlene (Feb 16, 2017)

I should have mentioned that you can find many threads there on SMF about natural colorants.  Just use the search box at the top of the forum page.  You can either type your search parameters into the white box next to the word 'Search', and click on the word 'Go', or you can do an advanced search using the 'down arrow' directly to the right of the word 'Search' and before the white box.  This gives you a drop down box that looks like this:






In the advanced search there are several options to narrow your search.  You can search thread titles only, or 






even entire threads by changing the option in the drop-down box in the 'search by keyword' area.


----------



## shunt2011 (Feb 16, 2017)

Rune said:


> Yes, it's maybe not skin safe at all. But I thought if it was safe enough to inhale, it would be somewhat not too bad for a soap you will wash off. And it was an emergency solution, since I had no fragrances or essential oils.
> 
> I would not use that soap on my skin.  Just because it can be used to freshen a room doesn't mean it is safe for the skin. They are not made to be used on the skin diluted or not.    Since it's only for your use it's totally up to you and if you choose to possibly cause an adverse reaction.
> 
> ...


----------



## DeeAnna (Feb 16, 2017)

An example of a scent that is safe to inhale but bad for the skin would be bergamot or lime essential oil. These EOs will cause a chemical burn if you put them on your skin and expose that skin to sunlight. But they're both reasonably safe to inhale. I'm just sharing this to help you understand Shari's point.


----------



## cherrycoke216 (Feb 16, 2017)

You learn something new everyday. English is not my mother language, too. And I was thinking about the Honeywell brand machine or other generics they put in the buildings, hospitals, hotels, offices. The thing you can control heat and also make it cooler. Maybe there's other name for it. 


As for the easily available natural colorant, maybe algae or seaweed? But too much of these two smells like dead fish. ( never tried it, saw it on here) the blue, red and yellow...maybe try order ultramarine online? There's a recent thread named something ultramarine blue and it's very beautiful blue shades. You can add titanium dioxide to make lighter, so you got different shades of blue. Tomato purée / ketchup make red, depending how much you put it. But food additives can not be put too much, or it will grow mold. Calendula infused oil can be the yellow. And it's one of the few natural things won't turn brown  in soap. ( cornflower, too ) lavender bud will turn brown, will look like mouse droppings. Rose petal will, too. Unless you stick the flower on top of the soap. 
Other options are mica ( very colorful, won't bleed color out) , oxides ( never tried it. Try search it on forum) LAKES ( food grade LAKES can bleed color, some are NOT skin safe but food safe. Weird, huh?! ) ultramarine blue

Moss... I don't know will it be green or brown. Maybe search it on forum? There's a fun thing called lichen. I think might grow in your weather. Some lichen is used in perfume industry and is a irritant. I don't know how it will smell in soap. 

www.jimbonham.com/blog/natural-colorants-used-in-soap-making/
He use lichen in soap. It's light pink beige. But other Google search are green. He said depend on type of lichen.


----------



## dixiedragon (Feb 16, 2017)

Yup, sorry, Rune. You need to throw that soap away. 

Another concern of mine would be that the caustic soap batter could have reacted with the fragrance and produced some kind of toxic, unsafe byproduct.


----------



## topofmurrayhill (Feb 16, 2017)

Rune said:


> But anyway. I want to make some more soap, not today but maybe tomorrow, and will be very glad if someone know of a trick to get olive oil soap to come to a thick trace, without a stick blender?



Assuming your fragrance oil is docile, as that one appears to be, a few accelerants you could try are a dribble of clove oil or a few percentage points of a free fatty acid such as stearic if you can get it.


----------



## cherrycoke216 (Feb 17, 2017)

Maybe rune will be able to use it. He said it's 50 drops. I guess it's cinnamon & vanilla in total 50 drops. Compare to the soaps, it's really a smidgen even if it's not skin safe.


----------



## Rune (Feb 24, 2017)

Thank you all for all the replies. I will now go thru all the links about natural colorants and so on. 

This fragrance oil I used, the cinnamon, it's not skin safe, the bottle says. So I will take a chance and try, but only use it myself. I didn't use very much either. But yes, you are right, it can be toxic. On the other hand, there is nothing you normally would find in soaps, like all the toxic chemicals they add, parabenes and so on. So maybe it will not be worse than a commercial soap after all. The vanilla I used is an essence for food. So it's just vanillin. That one is safe, but not the cinnamon fragrance oil.

I have been watching a lot of Youtube videos, and especially those from Hila in Israel (Hila All Natural Soaps). She uses only naturals, and I really like how they look. I got some essential oils from England. And I can use a little of them to fragrance soaps as well. The patchouli is really, really strong, so I don't need to use the whole bottle, not at all. And the bottle of Atlas Cedarwood, that one can go in soaps as well. If i find something to combine it with. I didn't like the scent, you see, so I will not use it as a perfume or in a perfume blend. Rosewood, that was a wow experience. I can not waste a drop of that precious oil, since I will perfume myself with it. But I can order a bigger bottle and use it in soap making. 

If only summer could come soon. But it will not happen before end of May, or maybe later. I am above the Arctic Circle, so it's not a southern climate. But, when spring and summer eventually comes, we have a ton of thing popping up from the ground. Flowers of all sorts and uncountable green plants. Many plants are poisonous, and some really lethal, so I can't just pick plants after their scent. I must do research on every single one.

Anyway, I have decided to make only all natural soaps. And I found a norwegian website similar to Etsy, that I can use to sell the soaps. But it will for sure be a lot of trial and error before I can make something I can sell. Other people sell soaps with partial gel and wrong ingredients listed, or said to be all natural when it's not, I discovered on this norwegian website. I will definately not do that.


----------



## cherrycoke216 (Feb 24, 2017)

I have tried a scent combo from a forum member lsg, and it smells good. She posted: sweet orange & cedarwood 1:1 ratio. It's calls emerald island I think. This is some sort of basic blend of man's fragrance. You can find lots of perfume contains these two essential oils. Or if you don't have sweet orange, you can try other citrus EO. See which one you like or which one is cheaper. ( bergamot is more expensive, especially the non-light sensitive one,bergaptene free . Grapefruit also is more expensive)

If you are looking for essential oil blends, try www.mountainroseherbs.com  on the site, you can check out each EO and it will list something that blends well with it. And you can choose what EO you have and starts from there. People here taught a trick that use cotton swabs and put a drop of each EO desired and start building your own blends. Put it in a ziplock or plastic bag and a post-it sticker writing down each blend's ratio.
Or try www.fragrantica.com it's a perfume site, you can search your favorite perfume. Cheap or expensive ones. From body shop, lush, drug store perfume to high end $$$$ kind of niche market. And you can study what you can recreate because they got a chart of what portion people smell it first. Of course there will be something synthetic, but the fun is creating something you never thought of. 

And good luck to you, finding your favorite recipe, sourcing your reasonable priced local oil supply, find scents you like, and to sell you have to do scents you hate... It's a long way to go. Welcome to the addiction.


----------



## dixiedragon (Feb 24, 2017)

Rune - before you leap into selling, you really need to learn more about soap making. You need to learn how to make a safe, consistent product. To be brutally honest - if you are using fragrances not approved for skin use in your soap, you are VERY far from being ready to sell. Yes, it is a small amount - but it is a small amount of something VERY potent. Your soap may be fine to use on your hands - but what if somebody washes their face with it? Their delicate parts? What if somebody with very sensitive skin uses it?

You can add plants to soap if you want - but you won't get any scent that way. And in most cases, you won't get any color other than brown.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Feb 25, 2017)

Not forgetting any regulations you have to adhere to - Norway is not in the EU, but part of the agreement with the EU is that a lot of regulations apply, including those on cosmetics (soap here is classed as a cosmetic)


----------



## Isabisa (Mar 17, 2017)

I use a ratio 1:2 in my water/lye concentration of olive oil soap and it works perfectly. You should also consider that once your soap is made and poured it needs to rest in a warm place (covered with blankets) for at least 24hr as it takes some time to get to a consistency right enough to unmould (that is for a soap which is mostly olive oil). I have been using soap calc as a lye calculator just changing the lye instead of "percentage" using "ratio"


----------



## Rune (Mar 19, 2017)

Hi, sorry for my late replies again.

I will never ever use any fragrance oil meant for oil burners for product that are meant to be sold. It was just a test batch with what I had on hand, and just for my own use. I will in fact not use any fragrance oils at all, even those for soap making. And I will never pick plants outdoors without doing research on them beforehand, since a lot of them is poisonous or very skin sensitizing.

I found a supplier i Ukraine, and I am about to place an order. The prices are great! But I have too much in the shopping cart, and they have a lot to offer in this shop, so I must strip the cart, otherwise it will be too expensive. I found wooden molds and everything there. The wooden molds are now gone from the shop, so I hope it's just temporarily. And I found a great single wire cutter as well. Plus lots and lots of natural materials and more. The only problem is that the language is russian only. But it does work if you translate the whole link to the shop in Google Translate, and navigate there. And then goes to the shop itself and find the same items, and put it in the cart.

Here is the link to the shop, if someone wish to see what they have. I guess shipping to America and Australia will be way too high, so it will most likely be interesting only for you in Europe, Middle East, North Africa and closer parts of Asia. But here is the link: http://www.easysoap.com.ua

Another link that is great, and does have a huge lot of things, ranging from very cheap to relatively expensive, is Aroma Zone in France. There you have the same problem, the shop is only in french. But Google translate will work there as well. The Ukrainian shop has items from Aroma Zone as well, but it's cheaper to buy those items from Aroma Zone. The link is: http://www.aroma-zone.com

I googled just a couple of minutes ago pomace olive oil. I am looking for a supplier of that in Norway. And I found something really scary! It is an article written in 2007 in the Norwegian financial newspaper, Dagens Næringsliv (Todays Business) about the olive oil industri, particulary in Italy. Oh lord! I must find a way to translate it for you. The article was of course not about olive oil for soap making, but for consume. But it does apply to soap making as well. If the oil you buy is dilluted with all sorts of other oils, it does for sure mess up the recipes. And it also tells that pomace is carcinogenic. I have not read everything yet, but it seems like the worst to buy is extra virgin olive oil. I don't think they have so much interest in cheating with the lower quality of olive oil, since the price is way under extra virgin. But who knows. It may be rapeseed or sunflower, mineral oil?

Okey, I do it like this. Here is the original link to the article: http://www.dn.no/d2/d2mat/2007/11/09/olja-logn

And here is the Google Translate version. Google does a great job, so it's not too bad at all: https://translate.google.com/transl...d2mat/2007/11/09/olja-logn&edit-text=&act=url

If there is something you don't understand, you can just go to the original text and cut and paste it into google, and tweak it a little bit until you get a meaningful sentence.

When you see "FSA", it is really the Norwegian FDA. It is called Mattilsynet in Norwegian. FSA doesn't give any meaning, I guess. If something is unclear, I can translate manually.


----------



## shunt2011 (Mar 19, 2017)

The olive oil situation has been discussed numerous times her on the site. Fortunately, even adulterated oil soaps pretty much like true olive. Pr you need to find a reputable brand.


----------



## Rune (Mar 19, 2017)

Aha, okey. That is good to know that the fakes soap as well as the real deal. Reputable brand, yes, maybe for cooking. But I will look primarily on the price tag for oils to use in soaps


----------



## Rune (Mar 19, 2017)

The adulteration of essential oils is also a biiig problem. And the even bigger problem is that many can't afford buying from reputable brands with all sorts of test equipment, but have too look at the prices since you have to use much more of the essential oils for soap than for any other application. And then, the lower the price the more likely it is to be adulterated, maybe. That is a huge problem when trying to make products you can claim is 100% natural. 

But what to do? So I have found out that if the essential oil is sold to me as natural, and I have no specific suspicion about the purity of the product, then I will claim my soaps to be 100% natural, when that time comes (I have to make the soaps first and cure them, pack them and market them). And if someone asks about the purity of the essential oils used in the soap, I will just tell them that I can't guarantee that since there is so much that is adulterated. I have heard that 75% of all essential oils are not pure.

But luckily, many of them are adulterated with all natural ingredients. Like mixed with other plants and dilluted with base oils.


----------



## shunt2011 (Mar 19, 2017)

You are very wrong on the reputable companies. The large majority of us here use top quality EO and FO.  And  most companies we use have tested them in products and post the results. Remember, you get what you pay for. Use oils from reputable suppliers.  If you can't afford the appropriate supplies and ingredients you may want to think about another hobby.  I sell and will not use sub par ingredients. You f you are making only for yourself you can do soapmaking fairly inexpensively making small batches. I sell and it took well over a year of testing and formulating. Not a cheap adventure.


----------



## Rune (Mar 19, 2017)

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> Not forgetting any regulations you have to adhere to - Norway is not in the EU, but part of the agreement with the EU is that a lot of regulations apply, including those on cosmetics (soap here is classed as a cosmetic)



I did try to find out about the rules. I am just now reading the part of the rules with the looong list of forbidden substances. But, there are some exceptions from the rules if you make soap yourself. But I can't find those exceptions. So I have to call them and ask where they are. 

But I found something on the list of forbidden substances. And that i Laurus Nobilis L, oil from the seeds. I have googled laurel seeds and laurel berries, and they look the same to me. So is laurel seeds dried berries? Or is it the same?

If it is the same, then it is illegal to make Aleppo soap. If the laurel berries are used fresh to press oil out of, with the seeds inside, then it will be illegal if any oil from the seeds leeks out. But legal if there is only oil from the berries and not the seeds. In case laurel seeds and berries are not the same.

Maybe the safest option will be to make fake Aleppo soap using powdered laurel leefs.


----------



## Rune (Mar 19, 2017)

And peru balsam, untreated resin, is illegal when used as a perfume ingredient. And I was just seconds away from ordering peru balsam a while ago, but changed my mind in the last minute and ordered benzoin instead. Thank God I did that. So yes, there are strict rules. And I can for sure not buy anything from USA, where all sorts of colorants and things that are banned in the EU are legal. Not that I know anything of American cosmetic regulations, but for food there is a lot of stuff that are legal there and not here. So to buy from an EU country will be the safest.


----------



## Rune (Mar 24, 2017)

cherrycoke216 said:


> You learn something new everyday. English is not my mother language, too. And I was thinking about the Honeywell brand machine or other generics they put in the buildings, hospitals, hotels, offices. The thing you can control heat and also make it cooler. Maybe there's other name for it.
> 
> 
> As for the easily available natural colorant, maybe algae or seaweed? But too much of these two smells like dead fish. ( never tried it, saw it on here) the blue, red and yellow...maybe try order ultramarine online? There's a recent thread named something ultramarine blue and it's very beautiful blue shades. You can add titanium dioxide to make lighter, so you got different shades of blue. Tomato purée / ketchup make red, depending how much you put it. But food additives can not be put too much, or it will grow mold. Calendula infused oil can be the yellow. And it's one of the few natural things won't turn brown  in soap. ( cornflower, too ) lavender bud will turn brown, will look like mouse droppings. Rose petal will, too. Unless you stick the flower on top of the soap.
> ...



Thank you for all the great tips and tricks  

I will try to find the thread about ultramarine. Because I really, really want that pigment. Maybe it's like citruses, they are food safe but not skin safe in too high concentrations, since they can give sun burns or something like that. Seaweed, yes, dead fish, have never thought about that. But it can very well be a dead fish smell.

Lichen, thank you so much for that! Wow, now I remembered something. There is one lichen we have here that grows everywhere. Especially on birch trees, and they are everywhere. Birch trees are actually covered in this grey lichen. But, that lichen is used to colour yarn, as a natural dye. And it will colour the yarn red. Bright red, if I don't remember wrong. So that one can for sure be used as a colourant. But if it's skin safe, hmm, that should be possible to find out somewhere. I don't know what this lichen is called. But we have other lichens too, many different kinds, and they are everywhere, tons and tons of them.

I have also thought about henna. But henna will stain your hands, I think. But lets say if you colour something with henna first, like silk or wool or something, rinse it off, and use that coloured fiber in the soap. Maybe that will work. Henna is for sure something that can give strong colours.

Now I found a video (in Norwegian) about a lichen (Ochrolechia tartarea (L.) Massal). That is used to dye yarn. And to check if it is the right lichen, you can just take a Q-tip with bleach and smear it on the lichen. If it changes colour to pink, red, purpur (I don't remember exactly), it is the right kind of lichen. And to extract the colour from the lichen, they dried it, ground it up in a mortar, and then added Salmiakk (an alkali solution) to the mixture. It had to sit there for a while. I did not really understand the procedure, but I will find out another place. Instead of Salmiakk, I am sure lye solution can be used. I don't even know if Salmiakk is only something norwegian that no one understand what is, or if it is available in all countries. But Salmiakk (ammonia) is a household cleaner, a very strong one, that is very alkaline. So it Salmiakk and vinegar is used in natural dyes, Salmiakk for alkali and vinegar for acidic. But I guess it's just for convenience, lye can be used instead. I don't think it matters, and maybe Salmiakk is not safe in soaps.

I know of a lichen and a procedure to make a strong blue colour. That can maybe be an alternative to ultramarine. I came across that a while ago on a Norwegian site. And I sent that to a woman in Finland, that does a lot of natural dye. She has tried almost every plant, but this lichen that makes blue is very unknown. I will try to find it again an post it here. If it does work for yarn, it should work also for soap. This lichen is called "messinglav" in Norwegian and Xanthoria parietina in latin. While trying to research when writing here, I found that this lichen also gives a strong yellow colour. So I guess it can be both blue or yellow, depending on what you add to it.

Another thing that is used in natural dyes are a mordant called alun. I think alun is safe and non-toxic, and it is a mineral of some sort. That will enhance colours, deepen and brighen them, and make them stick to the yarn. Lightfast and non-fading. That substance is maybe a good idea to use in soaps as well, when natural dyes are used as colourants.

I found the article about messinglav (xanthoria). It is written in Norwegian, and that crappy Google Translate would not tranlate it because the file was too big. I tried Russian Yandex Translator, it did translate something, but only to page 5. But, it should be possible to cut out the text from page 28 to 32 and paste it in Google Translate. Here is the link, and the article is called "Blått fra lav" (blue from lichen), and starts on page 28:

http://www.soppognyttevekster.no/media/1079/sopp-og-nyttevekster-3-2005.pdf


----------



## SaltedFig (Mar 24, 2017)

Rune said:


> Another thing that is used in natural dyes are a mordant called alun. *I think alun is safe and non-toxic*, and it is a mineral of some sort. That will enhance colours, deepen and brighen them, and make them stick to the yarn. Lightfast and non-fading. That substance is maybe a good idea to use in soaps as well, when natural dyes are used as colourants.



Hi Rune,

I'm so glad you are here! Your enthusiam is terrific, but you do need to post here (as you have :mrgreen before you add random things to your soap.

This one, it's "Alum" in English. *The mordant Alum is NOT a safe ingredient to put in soap* (and you would want to use caution even handling it!).

Just a couple of reasons why - heat it and you create Sulphuric Acid, mix it with lye and you get toxic Aluminium fumes.

I'm going to stop there - here's the safety data sheet for you: https://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9922860


----------



## cherrycoke216 (Mar 25, 2017)

It's a pdf file and I can't just copy paste it to the translator. But I know a phone application called google translate. On my phone it can use photo to translate things. So maybe print screen on the phone or computer will work. 
I suggest you go to library or bookstore near you to find herb books. There's herbalist know their thing well and you can start read up on it. Because take lichen for example, there are so many kind of lichens. Or you can google or wiki the herb. Or just use the normal and safe plants like calendula, elder flower, rosemary and the likes.  or ask here first.


----------

