# Volcano in HP soap. Garbage or fixable?



## 13llamas (Jun 23, 2017)

Hi everyone. We had a batch of HP soap go volcano on us. It was pretty scary. It happened just as my hubby was pouring the lye mixture in. Our thoughts are that the crockpot is defective and the low settings heats too high. The other three identical pots did not give us any trouble. We quickly scooped up what we could, poured the mixture into a container, and cleaned everything up.

I need help in determining whether the stuff is now garbage, or can I reuse it as part of another HP batch somehow? How do I determine how much of the oils/lye have been wasted? I have no idea where to begin solving this problem. There were coconut, hemp, avocado, and olive oils involved so I would prefer not to have to throw it out, but if that's the recommendation then that's what I will do.

Thanks!

Anita


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jun 23, 2017)

How many slow cookers were you using?  Sounds like a big batch

Edit - I see that you sell your soap, so if you are experienced enough to sell soap then I think you would have enough knowledge to deal with this.


----------



## 13llamas (Jun 23, 2017)

*What does selling have to do with it?*

Thanks for the - sort of - reply, Efficacious Gentleman. Not very gentlemanly, I must say. 

To answer your question we have 4 slow cookers. One for each of the scents we make. We use natural infusions and herbs that we are able to grow on our own ranch. We recently started doing this so that we could perhaps try to offset some of the cost of the hay our rescue llamas consume and, since they are getting older, any veterinary care they may require.

Secondly, just because I have sold a few bars of soap, doesn't mean I am an expert. Telling me that I should know the answer is not in the least bit helpful. If I knew the answer I wouldn't be asking the question.

Thank you.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jun 23, 2017)

That being my point - if you don't know the answer to this question, should you be selling soap even for the most noble of reasons?


----------



## Saranac (Jun 23, 2017)

13llamas said:


> I need help in determining whether the stuff is now garbage, or can I reuse it as part of another HP batch somehow? How do I determine how much of the oils/lye have been wasted? I have no idea where to begin solving this problem. There were coconut, hemp, avocado, and olive oils involved so I would prefer not to have to throw it out, but if that's the recommendation then that's what I will do.



I wouldn't use it in another batch, nor would I plan to sell it.  Your family must need soap, too?  Let it cure, and as long as it doesn't zap, use it for yourself.  EDITED TO ADD:  Get yourself a thermometer--you shouldn't trust equipment today, just because it worked yesterday!


----------



## kchaystack (Jun 23, 2017)

What Gent is getting at is that general forum consensus is that new soapers should not be selling soap.  It takes time to learn the craft, test recipes, and just generally get up to speed.

For instance, you say you are doing HP soap.  Why did you choose that process over cold process?  If it is because you believe HP soap does not need to cure - then you are mistaken.  HP takes as long or longer than CP because you need to use more water.

As for what went wrong - we need your recipe, in weights and including additives and the exact process you took when preparing your oils, lye and how you added it.  This is not a problem I have heard of before.

As for if you can save it -  You say it immediately volcanoed when you added the lye?  So you did not get to do much if any mixing?  What exactly do you have?  Is it still liquid?  does it look like soap?  We really need alot more info to figure it out. 

Normally volcanos happen  once the soap starts to gel - so a stable emulsion has been reached.  In those cases you can zap test once it has cooled some and if it does not zap, its fine to use as you would any other soap.


----------



## NsMar42111 (Jun 23, 2017)

I've never had a batch of soap volcano when mixing the lye and oils together, even when experimenting with the "finish quick by having everything too hot" method! All of my batches do a slow volcano right before being completed (I do HP), but I know when that's going to happen and can stir it down.  You may want to invest in a laser thermometer just for a quick spot check, if the oil temp is wayyyyyy off do not add lye and then figure out what is going on.

What you could do is to take a "good" crockpot, fill halfway with water, and run on low for whatever you normally run your oils on before adding lye. Do the same for the "suspect" crockpot, then use a cooking thermometer to check the temperature and see if there's a difference. If not, something else is going on.

As for is it useable, only time will tell. I would not sell it, any batch I've had that beat me and got out of the crockpot I just use for myself. There's no easy way to tell how much oil is or is not in there....


----------



## shunt2011 (Jun 23, 2017)

13llamas said:


> Thanks for the - sort of - reply, Efficacious Gentleman. Not very gentlemanly, I must say.
> 
> To answer your question we have 4 slow cookers. One for each of the scents we make. We use natural infusions and herbs that we are able to grow on our own ranch. We recently started doing this so that we could perhaps try to offset some of the cost of the hay our rescue llamas consume and, since they are getting older, any veterinary care they may require.
> 
> ...


 
Welcome to the forum.  You may want to visit the rules of the forum.  

This may help explain the reason for some of the responses:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=56833


I only HP shaving soap but have never had a volcano and use a relatively new crockpot that does run hotter than my old one.  

Post your recipe and process and someone may be able to help.


----------



## lsg (Jun 23, 2017)

I would say if you saved most all of the ingredients, you can try and hot process it.  Do a zap test after it is done.  I would not sell this batch, but use it for the family or for laundry, dishes, etc.


----------



## 13llamas (Jun 23, 2017)

Thanks to those who answered politely. Since I did not give details about what I know and how many batches of soap we have made, I did not feel it was appropriate to quickly jump to judgement. I was trying to be brief and to-the-point. I guess that backfired!

- We use hot process because that is the process my husband and I prefer. We tried cold and didn't enjoy it as much. Nothing to do with how quickly it cures or anything like that, although I will definitely say we don't like the formation of the ash on top AND we can test for zap a bit more easily. 

- We have made many batches that we have used ourselves and have given to friends and family, so it's not like we just started making soap yesterday and now we're selling it! We're planning on starting to go to farmer's markets. Right now we sell lots of bulk catnip, catnip toys, dog biscuits made with fruit, veggies, and herbs we grow on the ranch, and also bath salts made with our herbs and flowers.

- Despite having made dozens of batches in the same crockpot (the first one we ever purchased for this purpose) we have never encountered this type of volcano thing - the _instant_ John put the lye solution in is when everything came spewing out of the crockpot (one that we had used numerous times before).

- What is left is a big lump of something or other. We didn't zap test it yet.

- I was not intending to use it to create a batch to sell; I just want to know if it's safe to do _anything_ with it; mix into another batch, try to melt it down and add more of something?

- The recipe was as follows:


7.00 ounces of avocado oil
14.00 ounces of coconut oil (76 deg)
7.00 ounces of hemp oil
7.00 ounces of olive oil

We let the oils warm up in the crockpot on low, then we added the 13.30 ounces of water mixed with 4.58 ounces of NaOH and KABOOM!

The brand of crockpot is the actual CrockPot 4.5 Qt. Slow Cooker - SCR450PT-033 if that means anything to anyone (maybe there have been issues with that brand in that past?).

Thanks!

Anita


----------



## shunt2011 (Jun 23, 2017)

I would just wait and zap test it.  If you don't like the appearance and it's zap free you could always grate it up and rebatch it.


----------



## Saranac (Jun 23, 2017)

I agree--as long as you were able to get most of it back into the pot, you're probably okay.

And welcome! :wave:


----------



## IrishLass (Jun 23, 2017)

Welcome 13llamas! :wave:

I looked up the model # of your crockpot, and it looks like you are not the only one experiencing issues with it cooking too hot on low. A good handful of folks complained that food that should have taken 6 to 8 hours to cook was getting done in half that time or less. Actually, this seems to be a universal problem ever since the government stepped in and raised the minimum standard temps of crockpots in the name of food safety. 

I recommend that you test your crockpot to see how hot it actually gets. To do this, fill it 1/2 to 2/3 full of tepid water, turn it on the low setting, cover it, and let it heat for 8 hours then uncover the crock and very quickly check the temp of the water with a food thermometer. You need to be quick about it because the temps will drop by about 10 to 15 degrees when the lid is lifted. If the crock is working up to normal, modern-day standards, the water temp should be 185F.

I agree with lsg and Shari. If it's zap-free, just use it as-is for yourself or grate it up and rebatch..... or use as decorative soap confetti in another batch.

If it zaps- no problem- you can use Bunny's method to fix it- just grate it up and heat it on low, and stir about a teaspoon to a tablespoon of oil to it at a time (about every 10 to 20 minutes or so) until all zap is gone. It won't be the soap you were aiming for, but it will be perfectly good, safe-to-use soap nevertheless.


IrishLass


----------



## SunRiseArts (Jun 23, 2017)

I have done HP for 2 years. Volcano only happens after you have mix your batter, not when you pour your lye. 

Did you leave it unattended? Because if you see a batch going to volcano, and you stir it quickly, almost always goes back to normal. But you have to be on top of it.

What you saved, had the batter been mixed or not? Did it reach emulsion? Because if you did not, you need to throw it away. There is a risk of burning your skin.

JMHO


----------



## cmzaha (Jun 23, 2017)

SunRiseArts said:


> I have done HP for 2 years. Volcano only happens after you have mix your batter, not when you pour your lye.
> 
> Did you leave it unattended? Because if you see a batch going to volcano, and you stir it quickly, almost always goes back to normal. But you have to be on top of it.
> 
> What you saved, had the batter been mixed or not? Did it reach emulsion? Because if you did not, you need to throw it away. There is a risk of burning your skin.


If the crock-pot is off on it temp and running to hot it can certainly volcano when adding in warm to hot lye solution.


----------



## SunRiseArts (Jun 23, 2017)

cmzaha said:


> If the crock-pot is off on it temp and running to hot it can certainly volcano when adding in warm to hot lye solution.


 
Ha!  Thank you because I did not know that!  Everyday I learn something new.

When I do hot process I never turn on my crock pot, because I mix my ingredients on it and then use the stick blender.  Only after my batter is ready I turn on the pot.  Maybe that is why it never happened to me.


----------



## 13llamas (Jun 24, 2017)

Thanks everyone!

I never got to cooking it. The stuff just came spewing out of the pot the instant my husband put the cold lye solution in! The lump of whatever is sitting in our extra fridge at the moment. We will zap test it and then try recooking as suggested. 

From now on we will also try not turning the crockpot on until after the soap gets to trace!

Thank you all so much for the helpful suggestions!

Wow! Thanks for the research, IrishLass. I had tried looking it up but didn't really find much that seemed worrisome at the time.

I will definitely test all the crockpots to see if they are experiencing temperature issues.


----------



## DeeAnna (Jun 24, 2017)

I can think of a couple of reasons why the soap may have over-reacted when you added the lye solution, but both of them hinge on the fats being far too hot. 

One is a runaway saponification reaction. The saponification gets going so fast that the soap expands due to gases forming inside the soap and overflows. A volcano due to this reason should take a brief time to get going -- it will be quick, but not instantaneous. And very messy. Excess heat and/or a recipe high in coconut oil (or PKO or babassu) are likely culprits, especially if sugars are involved.

The other problem would be nearly instantaneous. That would be if you pour the lye solution slowly into very hot fat. The water in the lye solution would heat up to boiling in just a few seconds and would turn to steam. Since the water drops to the bottom, the steam will blow through the hot fat as it escapes. The result would be a steamy mess complete with spatters of hot fat, soap, and lye. This is potentially more of a safety hazard than the usual volcano.


----------



## 13llamas (Jun 26, 2017)

*Thanks DeeAnna*

The second one sounds about right, DeeAnna. It was instantaneous to the point of leap out of the way! Hubby started poring the cold solution slowly, as he always does, and never even made it to pouring all of it in before the whole thing came whooshing out - oil and everything all over the counter, the crockpot, EVERYwhere. What a mess!

Thanks for the thoughts.


----------



## LBussy (Jul 2, 2017)

You start with a recipe that's carefully thought out and balanced.  You then carefully weigh and measure everything.  You end up with something that's not what you planned because it all reacted before you could completely combine the ingredients.   Do you have a greasy lump of soap?  A "hot" lump of very drying soap?  Pockets of both?  The safe and sane answer here for what to do with it is to discard it.  There's no sense in an experiment for a few dollars.  

The only way I'd even consider keeping the batch is if I was 100% sure all of the ingredients were mixed in and re-captured after the festivities - then maybe I'd grate it and re-process.  After thinking about all that work I'd probably talk myself out of it again.


----------



## NsMar42111 (Aug 3, 2017)

Curious what you ended up doing with the "random lump"?


----------



## 13llamas (Aug 3, 2017)

*The random lump*

It's still sitting there! I haven't had time to deal with it. Pretty sure I will just put it in the burn barrel and send it on its way. There's a solid mass and then there's some watery stuff. I'm just not willing to experiment with it, even as laundry soap, since I really don't know what saponified and what didn't. The mass I have may just be congealed coconut oil. It's tough to tell.

And the offending crockpot is sitting outside being used as a base for burning  coffee grounds as mosquito repellant!

In the meantime, we got a really cool laser temperature checker. That might also help when we get to our next batch.

Thanks for checking!


----------



## NsMar42111 (Aug 3, 2017)

The laser temp thing has a billion other uses...I had one from when the A/C guy was using one to check the vent temps to make sure the a/c unit was working properly. He told me to get one and I did LOL. It also makes a great cat toy-she hears the BEEP and is looking for the red dot in one second! I also use it just randomly looking at my the temperature of my walls LOL.


----------

