# Beer soap process



## scraggybeard (Jul 20, 2015)

Anyone have a good process for making beer soap? I've seen various posts about boiling/reducing the beer ~50% (what's the reason for this, by the way?) but haven't found much beyond that. Does the beer replace the water in the lye mixture? Does it get added after the lye and oils are blended? Thanks in advance for help.


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## snappyllama (Jul 20, 2015)

Beer is one of those tricky water replacements... maybe the most problematic.  You want to remove as much alcohol and carbonation as possible otherwise the lye mixture can overheat or even volcano on you.  Some folks like to make a reduction so that they can mix lye + 50% of water amount to dissolve the lye.   You need to make sure you have at least an equal weight of water to lye to ensure the lye dissolves completely. Take special care as the lye solution is much more concentrated than usual.

Then you would add the lye solution to oils. Then add in your beer reduction which would be the other 50% of the normal water amount of your recipe. Be prepared as things can heat up and move fast. You will probably want to freeze or at least refrigerate your molded soap to prevent overheating.

I'm no expert at it... only having done it a couple of times. Hopefully someone with more experience will give you their tips.


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## aprice522 (Jul 20, 2015)

Since this is on my to soap soon list....

Since it moves quickly--would you put any EO in at different time then trace?  

Would you try and let the lye water cool more and soap at lower temp to help balance the heat that will be created?


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## snappyllama (Jul 20, 2015)

I normally soap at room temperature or just a little above and always add my fragrance to my oils before my lye unless I need to keep a portion FO-free for coloring purposes.  When I've done my beer soaps, I've definitely had things very cool and added the FO to my oils ahead of time.  I like to exercise a bunch of caution/control over what I'm doing anyway, perhaps someone here has had good luck with a less regimental approach.


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## lsg (Jul 21, 2015)

I don't boil my beer.  I let it set out open 24 hours and then freeze it.  Add the lye very slowly to the frozen beer, stirring between each addition.  I strain my beer/lye solution to make sure that I don't have any undissolved lye in the solution.


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## DeeAnna (Jul 21, 2015)

"...various posts about boiling/reducing the beer ~50% (what's the reason for this, by the way?)..."

Since your screen name is "scraggybeard" I'm guessing you're a guy ... and you probably drink beer cuz you want to make beer soap ... and so the answer should be obvious! If a little beer is good, isn't MORE beer better? 

Funnin' aside -- I boil my beer down by 50%, and I also use it for all the water in my recipe.


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## not_ally (Jul 21, 2015)

I've only done 1 beer soap, and then only used "near beer", so probably not the best advice giver.  But it behaved like a lamb, so here's what I did, using the "split method" described by snappy above: 

Reduced the beer from a bottle to about 5 oz  (to eliminate any remaining alcohol and carbonation) and put it in the fridge to cool.  My recipe called for 8.58 oz of liquid (I use aloe instead of water), in a batch that was 26 oz of oils.  I used a 33% water/oil ratio, so slightly discounted water/liquid.

I put the lye into 4.58 oz of aloe, added the FO to the oils, let it sit for a few minutes, added the lye liquid to the oils, brought to emulsification and added the below (which was pre-mixed).

Mixed an oz of coconut milk powder, some EDTA, 1.5 TB of oats (mix of finely ground and colloidal) and 1.5 TB of honey warmed in a tiny bit of water in the remaining liquid amount, using the 4 oz of reduced beer.  Added that mix at emulsification, brought to trace and then put it in the freezer, did not try to swirl or gel.  I had no acceleration, I think I could have done a swirl, espec. if I had used full water.


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## kchaystack (Jul 21, 2015)

I recently made a large batch of beer soap for a swap on this forum.  I still need to edit the video and put up a post on the making of it.

I reduced the beer i bought by 50%, but I did not let it boil.  The reduction was mostly to drive off the alcohol, which I have read can cause soap on a stick.  I then froze it in an ice try and used it as 100% of the liquid in a 2kg batch.  I mixed the lye in with the frozen cubes a bit at a time, and let it come to room temp.  It did not get super hot, one of the benefits of using ice.  

I did strain it when I added the lye.  It did not seem to move too fast.  It did darken the batter - but while setting up the color lightened to light khaki.  So if you want it to stay a dark brown you will need to add some brown oxide or cocoa powder.  

All the feedback has been pretty good - tho I few were not as crazy about my fragrance as I was.  

Here are some pics of what it looked like -


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## Seawolfe (Jul 21, 2015)

Another reason to boil it down is to get more of the beer goodness and scent in there. I used a whole big bottle of Arrogant Bastard in an unscented 2 lb batch, and it still smells hoppy and wonderful. Plus then you can do fun things with two toning it if you like:


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## LittleCrazyWolf (Jul 21, 2015)

I'm so pleased to see this post today! Yesterday my husband brought home some Guiness Stout and asked me to make him some more beer soap. 

The first time I made beer soap I just let the beer sit out to get rid of the carbonation and then froze it. I am going to try using the reduction method this time and leave the batch unscented to see if any of the hoppy scent comes through in the finished soap.

Seawolfe, I love the pic of your soap. That's how I always imagined beer soap should look. My first attempt went well but didn't look half as good as yours.


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## traderbren (Jul 21, 2015)

Thank you for this thread! Hubs brews beer, so I plan to make a beer soap at some point, and most of my questions are now answered!


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## scraggybeard (Jul 21, 2015)

Thanks all for the replies! So if I have a batch that calls for ~20oz water for the lye mixture, I can use reduced beer for all ~20ozs? Seawolfe, I was thinking of adding some pellet hops to the soap to give it a hoppy smell - is that not necessary in your experience?


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## DeeAnna (Jul 21, 2015)

"...I can use reduced beer for all ~20ozs?..."

If you want. Just don't CPOP or insulate the soap and watch carefully for overheating especially in the first hour or so. Gelling is okay (at least for me and my soaps), but going past that and overheating is not. If you see any puffiness or the start of cracks on the top of the soap (assuming you're using a loaf or slab mold) then get a fan on it to cool it down.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jul 21, 2015)

You can use the beer for the whole amount, just keep an eye on things as you add the lye to it - maybe do it in the sink so if it starts to go badly at least it is confined to the sink.  Of course, if it is well prepared and you add the lye slowly, there is no reason why it shouldn't go off with out any issues, but I would err on the side of caution


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## Seawolfe (Jul 21, 2015)

I have a freezer full of whole hops, but have yet to use them in soap. If you use a really hoppy APA and concentrate at least half of it down, the smell will stick in my experience. Just watch for acceleration 

Edit to add: I would absolutely not add whole hops to the soap, they would go brown and look like mouse poop (like lavender does). Perhaps some on top might look cute, but expect them to go brown.


scraggybeard said:


> Thanks all for the replies! So if I have a batch that calls for ~20oz water for the lye mixture, I can use reduced beer for all ~20ozs? Seawolfe, I was thinking of adding some pellet hops to the soap to give it a hoppy smell - is that not necessary in your experience?


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## houseofwool (Jul 21, 2015)

Whole hops doesn't go brown. We make a hop head soap made with beer from a local brewery.


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## not_ally (Jul 21, 2015)

houseofwool said:


> Whole hops doesn't go brown. We make a hop head soap made with beer from a local brewery.



Wow, that is super interesting, I thought almost all botanicals did.  Good to know.


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## Susie (Jul 21, 2015)

What is APA?


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## Seawolfe (Jul 22, 2015)

American Pale Ale - the craft breweries here are making IPA's (India Pale Ale) with crazy high hoppiness (and often alcohol levels). They still call them IPA's, but my first job was a pub in London, and those aint IPA's any more IMHO. In New Zealand they call them APA's and that makes more sense to me.


Susie said:


> What is APA?



And really good to know about the hops not going brown! Though Im not sure what the leafyness would be like IN the soap as opposed to on top of it? Does it go scratchy in the soap?


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## houseofwool (Jul 22, 2015)

The whole hops is pushed into the top of the bar. I wouldn't consider putting hops in the soap, way too scratchy.


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## Sagebrush (Jul 22, 2015)

Just like soaping in general, I think it's great that everyone has a different way of making beer soap that they love that works well! I make mine by putting the beer in an open container (no pun intended) for at least 24 hours and stirring it whenever I remember just to see if the carbonation is gone. I use the beer for all of my water and I also soap at room temperature (very important so things don't overheat). When I add the lye to the beer, I make sure the beer has just come out of the fridge...I've just been too lazy to freeze it first. I also add dried ground hops to my recipe. Whole hops would be scratchy, but when they're ground to a powder they're pretty soft.


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## SplendorSoaps (Jul 22, 2015)

Great thread! I usually use a 50/50 water/lye solution, then add flat, cold beer for the rest of my liquid. I haven't been boiling it down, but I think I'll give it a try after reading this thread.


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## SplendorSoaps (Jul 22, 2015)

SageontheMountain said:


> Just like soaping in general, I think it's great that everyone has a different way of making beer soap that they love that works well! I make mine by putting the beer in an open container (no pun intended) for at least 24 hours and stirring it whenever I remember just to see if the carbonation is gone. I use the beer for all of my water and I also soap at room temperature (very important so things don't overheat). When I add the lye to the beer, I make sure the beer has just come out of the fridge...I've just been too lazy to freeze it first. I also add dried ground hops to my recipe. Whole hops would be scratchy, but when they're ground to a powder they're pretty soft.



SageontheMountain, do you find that the hops have any exfoliating effects, or is it more for visual interest? Also, would you recommend any specific type of hops over another? I think Bulk Apothecary had a big sale on hops recently, but I was so daunted by the options that I didn't buy any! LOL


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## Sagebrush (Jul 22, 2015)

SplendorSoaps said:


> SageontheMountain, do you find that the hops have any exfoliating effects, or is it more for visual interest? Also, would you recommend any specific type of hops over another? I think Bulk Apothecary had a big sale on hops recently, but I was so daunted by the options that I didn't buy any! LOL




SplendorSoaps, the hops don't have any exfoliating effects just because they're so soft and ground too finely. I add them for their benefits (which, I guess, may be debatable whether or not they survive saponification). I just like their addition in the beer soap, so there's double hoppyness 

I get my hops at a local herb shop in Seattle that sources most of their herbs locally. I think they're Cascade hops, but it's not labeled on any of my packages from them. I would just look at the profiles of the hops and see which ones sound like they'd blend well with your beers and scents. 

It looks like you're not too far from Seattle either. I'm just north. Howdy!


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## spenny92 (Jul 22, 2015)

I've tried both reducing the beer to a syrup and adding at trace (part water replacement), and simmering off the alcohol and carbonation and freezing the beer into ice cubes (full water replacement). It's a little nicer the first way, as the beer and lye concoction is pretty stinky, but I do kind-of prefer the ease of replacing the full amount of water with beer rather than splitting the weights.

Interested by the idea of adding whole hops on top. Might have to talk to my local brewery about that! I worked there over the summer, so I'm hoping to strike some sort of deal where they provide the beer for free and they can have some soap in exchange haha.


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## SplendorSoaps (Jul 22, 2015)

SageontheMountain said:


> SplendorSoaps, the hops don't have any exfoliating effects just because they're so soft and ground too finely. I add them for their benefits (which, I guess, may be debatable whether or not they survive saponification). I just like their addition in the beer soap, so there's double hoppyness
> 
> I get my hops at a local herb shop in Seattle that sources most of their herbs locally. I think they're Cascade hops, but it's not labeled on any of my packages from them. I would just look at the profiles of the hops and see which ones sound like they'd blend well with your beers and scents.
> 
> It looks like you're not too far from Seattle either. I'm just north. Howdy!



Thanks for the input! I'm in Des Moines, just south of Seattle. It's nice to get in touch with another local soap maker!


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## Sagebrush (Jul 23, 2015)

SplendorSoaps said:


> Thanks for the input! I'm in Des Moines, just south of Seattle. It's nice to get in touch with another local soap maker!




Cool! Yeah, it's nice to find other local soapers on here!


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## scraggybeard (Aug 4, 2015)

SageontheMountain said:


> Just like soaping in general, I think it's great that everyone has a different way of making beer soap that they love that works well! I make mine by putting the beer in an open container (no pun intended) for at least 24 hours and stirring it whenever I remember just to see if the carbonation is gone. I use the beer for all of my water and I also soap at room temperature (very important so things don't overheat). When I add the lye to the beer, I make sure the beer has just come out of the fridge...I've just been too lazy to freeze it first. I also add dried ground hops to my recipe. Whole hops would be scratchy, but when they're ground to a powder they're pretty soft.


Sage, do you still get the hoppy aroma eith your method or would a concentrated method provide more beer quality to the soap?


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## spenny92 (Aug 4, 2015)

scraggybeard said:


> Sage, do you still get the hoppy aroma eith your method or would a concentrated method provide more beer quality to the soap?



Not Sage, but I've tried both methods and don't seem to get a hoppy aroma with either. The beer scent doesn't really survive the lye monster, for me at least. I've used black ale, and super hoppy beer similar to an IPA.


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## amd (Aug 4, 2015)

spenny92 said:


> Might have to talk to my local brewery about that! I worked there over the summer, so I'm hoping to strike some sort of deal where they provide the beer for free and they can have some soap in exchange haha.


 
Oh! That's a good idea - I have a local brew pub here too. I love the brew - don't know how I missed the idear of using their beer for soaps... [insert forehead slap here]

Anyone have experience with using beer and pumpkin puree in the same bar? I'm experimenting with pumpkin next week and a pumpkin beer bar is on my agenda. Really wondering if there's a double whammy with the beer and puree together that I should watch out for.


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## Sagebrush (Aug 5, 2015)

scraggybeard said:


> Sage, do you still get the hoppy aroma eith your method or would a concentrated method provide more beer quality to the soap?




I agree with spenny that most of the "beer scent" doesn't survive the soap-making process. I don't smell beer in my finished product (neither do the majority of my customers), but a small percentage smell, or claim to smell, beer. It's usually those who don't like the smell of beer, however! 
I've never used the concentrated method, so I can't fairly compare the two. When I sniff my beer soaps, I smell the essential oils plus a rich earthy complementary underlying scent from the beer. I tend to pick ingredients that blend well with the type of beer I'm using too, so oftentimes I think what's happening is that the ground hops and beer get mixed up, however not lost, in the recipe. For example, I make a soap with a Hefeweizen that I add ground lemon peel, ground hops, lemon and basil essential oils. So, I think that if I were making the same soap with only hef and ground hops, the beer and hops scent would be more overt. 
Hope that helps...sorry it was a bit long-winded


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## DeeAnna (Aug 6, 2015)

"...a rich earthy complementary underlying scent from the beer..."

Very well put, Sage. That's what I notice when I smell my beer soaps, especially the younger ones. Hoppy beers seem to have more of this undertone, but the odor mellows a lot during cure.


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## Dharlee (Oct 17, 2015)

Seawolfe said:


> Another reason to boil it down is to get more of the beer goodness and scent in there. I used a whole big bottle of Arrogant Bastard in an unscented 2 lb batch, and it still smells hoppy and wonderful. Plus then you can do fun things with two toning it if you like



Did you use mica for the two tone? This is beautiful!


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## Seawolfe (Oct 17, 2015)

Dharlee said:


> Did you use mica for the two tone? This is beautiful!



There is no color added to that soap - those colors came from the plain beer and the cooked down beer. I have no idea where that line came from, but if I had to guess its from the different concentrations of the liquid in the two parts, like Auntie Clara gets with her water discounts.


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## Arimara (Oct 17, 2015)

I guess I'm going to try this again. My biggest mistake for the beer soap was assuming that I could just up and make one (I actually had no idea that beer was carbonated) so easily. I'm glad it appears that beer reductions are better. I'm sure it might be cringe worthy to do it on a regular stove, I'm reducing some hard cider and beers in the future.


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## Boomstick (Oct 17, 2015)

amd said:


> Anyone have experience with using beer and pumpkin puree in the same bar?



You've probably already made your soap but I'll post my (limited) experience.

I homebrew and have been experimenting with using the yeast/hops/protein sediment at the bottom of a carboy after fermentation.  I once soaped a batch with beer, the sediment as 10% of the batch size by weight and some dried barley husks that turned out great! 

I recently made a batch of soap with the sediment of a pumpkin ale I brewed (pumpkin guts, yeast and all) and it took 5 days to harden enough to remove from the mold. It is still soft after 2 weeks curing.  I'm thinking it was the pumpkin that's making it soft.. Any thoughts on this?


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Oct 17, 2015)

Without more information about the recipe, there is not much we can say. It could be too much liquid, or a bit too much combined with soft oils and so on.


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## Boomstick (Oct 18, 2015)

Recipe is

32oz extra virgin olive oil (the kind you buy at the grocery store)
8oz coconut oil 76F

5.4 oz 100% lye
13.2oz distilled water

Mixed at ~110F and once it reached light trace I added

4oz of the pumpkin puree/yeast cake
1/2 tsp cinnamon EO
1/4 tsp clove EO
1/8 tsp vanilla EO
1/8 tsp anise EO
Couple good shakes of ground cinnamon for texture

Let me know what you guys think.  Next time I might use less water and let the yeast cake (which has beer in it) make up the extra.


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## BrewerGeorge (Oct 18, 2015)

Seawolfe said:


> I have a freezer full of whole hops, but have yet to use them in soap. If you use a really hoppy APA and concentrate at least half of it down, the smell will stick in my experience. Just watch for acceleration
> 
> Edit to add: I would absolutely not add whole hops to the soap, they would go brown and look like mouse poop (like lavender does). Perhaps some on top might look cute, but expect them to go brown.





houseofwool said:


> Whole hops doesn't go brown. We make a hop head soap made with beer from a local brewery.





houseofwool said:


> The whole hops is pushed into the top of the bar. I wouldn't consider putting hops in the soap, way too scratchy.





SplendorSoaps said:


> SageontheMountain, do you find that the hops have any exfoliating effects, or is it more for visual interest? Also, would you recommend any specific type of hops over another? I think Bulk Apothecary had a big sale on hops recently, but I was so daunted by the options that I didn't buy any! LOL


The very reason I started making soaps was because I wanted to make beer and hops soaps.  My second batch of soap _ever_ was very...ambitious, shall we say, and didn't turn out in any way as I wanted.  Still good soap that we're using for hand washing, but not "beery" *at all*.

This may be a long post, so in good journalism style I'll give you the conclusions first and the details second:  First, whole hops very definitely turn to brown mouse turds when put into the batter, and they are very rough.  Second, I could not get any hop character at all in spite of using a very hoppy IPA, infusing hops in oil, and adding whole leaf hops.   Finally, adding crystal malt turned the soap into a dessert soap, not a beer soap.

I set out to tick every "beer" box with this soap.  I chose a very respectable, hoppy, American IPA, boiled it down enough to remove alcohol and carbonation (but not TOO much as the hop aroma compounds turn to bittering compounds with longer exposure to heat) then froze it.  It was 100% of my liquid for the recipe.  

Meanwhile, I did a hot extraction with about 2 oz of Centennial hop pellets in 8 oz of apricot kernel oil.  Pellets are very compressed and are stingy about giving back solvents, so I only ended up with 6 oz of oil after squeezing.  It was VERY dark yellow-green, very fragrant oil.  It was "dank" with hop goodness.  That made up 15% of total oils in the batch with the rest being a relatively typical mix of lard, coconut, and olive with a splash of castor and avocado.  The oils before adding the lye were a beautiful and fragrant emerald.

Adding the beer and lye, though, turned everything brown and started to stink.  I pressed on and everything went well enough, despite the smell.  At trace, I added two tablespoons of a caramelized malt called Caramunich that I had pulverized to powder in a coffee grinder (I was thinking oatmeal parallels here) and approximately an ounce of dried, homegrown leaf hops (Glacier).  I had carefully removed the hop leaves from the bracts they grown on (a very fiddly process) and chopped them about medium-fine.  

At this point, I had a soap ready to go into the mold, but there was absolutely no hop scent at all, no beer scent, just an awful lye scent.  Since this was my second batch and I was afraid of getting a finished soap with this terrible smell, I flinched a bit and added a 1/2 oz of BB's lemongrass-sage FO (40 oz batch) thinking that small amount might help cover that hateful lye smell and would harmonize with any hop character that remained after the cure.

I poured into the loaf and put the mold into the freezer to prevent overheating from all the sugars in the batter.  Took it out next day and cut it the day after.  Now that it's cured, the results are absolutely nothing at all like I'd hoped.

IMG_20151017_235416[1].jpg

As you can see the soap is quite yellow and the leaf hops are brown and scratchy.  The smaller brown dots are the crystal malt.  It works great as a hand soap, but I tried it in the shower one time and it's as rough as a loufah.  Way too rough for me.  The biggest disappointment, though, is the smell.  No hops whatsoever.  It smells like malt.  For you brewers reading this, it smells like malt extract. For non-brewers, it smells a bit like sweet granola and caramel together.  There's no hint of that little bit of lemongrass-sage FO that I added in my moment of weakness.  It's actually a very pleasant smell, but it's NOT HOPS. :-(  It performs very well, lathers great (as it should with all that sugar), and rinses clean - although it sometimes sheds those little hop pieces in the sink.  It's very popular with the household and family even though it's not what I planned.  Overall, a happy accident.

If I were going to try this again, based on this experience I would:
NOT add the crystal malt.  It's sugars are over the top and its scent overpowering.  Pulverized unmalted barley would be a better choice for the "oatmeal" route.
NOT add whole hops except as a possible topping. They are too scratchy and ugly when put in the batter.
INCREASE the percentage of infused oil - a lot.  Like all the liquid oils infused at a ratio of 1 oz of pellets for 4 oz of oil (expecting to lose a 1/3 of the oils to the hops)

However, even with those changes, I'm skeptical of any hop aroma making it through saponification in CP.  Hop aroma compounds are acids.  

Perhaps the actual answer is making an HP soap and superfatting after the cook with an hop-infused oil?  (I haven't tried that, but I may...)  I'm also considering adding a large amount of the squeezed pellets - half of weight or so - like one would add salt or pumice.  I'm not sure even that much would impart hop aroma, though, unless one went the HP route.

This is already super-long so I'll end, but if anybody has questions about hop varieties or such, I'm happy to answer.


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## Arimara (Oct 18, 2015)

At least you tried and what more, some of use learned just a wee bit more thanks to your efforts. so, Thanks.


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## Boomstick (Oct 18, 2015)

Yeah thanks for sharing George!  I had a similar experience with my beer soap.  I tried to add as much beer ingredients as possible and all I ended up with was a good but earthy scented soap, no remnants of beer aroma left over.  I'm thinking of attempting to mimic the aromas of my IPA with grapefruit and citrus/pine EOs.

Please let us know if you end up trying to superfat at the end with the hop infused oil and whether that works or not.. Sounds promising.


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## SplendorSoaps (Oct 18, 2015)

Thanks for sharing your experience with the beer soap! Definitely sounds like an ambitious batch, but it's great to experiment to see what works and what doesn't. I still haven't used any ground hops in mine. I'm thinking about maybe trying a small test batch with a very small amount of finely ground hops to see if it adds anything to the final product. If not, maybe just sprinkling a few on the top to make it look cool.


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## traderbren (Oct 18, 2015)

I added ground hops pellets to my beer soap recently. I used Galena hops because it's what we had available that wasn't suitable for brewing anymore. I sadly did not measure them- just threw a handful in half of my batter. I don't really smell the hops now after 2 weeks. I just did a handwashing test, and there is a gentle scrubby texture to it.


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