# Emulsified body butter, but no water.



## Winterx (Feb 14, 2021)

I'm very much a novice in this world, but I'm trying to navigate it and learn all that I can. I like to make my own simple products like anhydrous body butter. For the more complicated emulsified body butter, I've chosen to purchase one to use while I learn. The ingredients are a follows: Shea butter, mango butter, emulsifying wax, and fragrance oil(if added).

I really loved this body butter until I really started thinking. Why is there an emulsifying agent but no water? Also no preservative.
My question is, does this serve a purpose I am not seeing? Or will this dry my skin out more, because after a few uses it felt like it was just making it worse. Any light you can shed on this is appreciated. Thanks!


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## lsg (Feb 14, 2021)

I don't see the reason for emulsifying wax when there is no liquid added.  The recipe doesn't even include a carrier oil.  I would forget the emulsifying wax and add oil and some tapioca or arrowroot powder to cut down on the greasiness.  Here is a link to making easy whipped body butter.



			https://www.soapqueen.com/?s=whipped+body+butter


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## DeeAnna (Feb 14, 2021)

I'm not sure an emulsifier in this body butter is doing anything more than stabilizing the thickness and texture of the product. If all it's doing is providing thickening, you could use a thickener such as stearic acid, cetyl alcohol, etc. and get pretty much the same result.

An emulsifier is used in emusifying scrubs that don't contain any water in the jar. You do add water to the product later on when you rinse your face, so the emulsifier eventually does do its usual job. 

But I can't see any point to an emulsifier in the body butter, unless maybe the directions for use say to use some water when applying the product to the skin?
***
Products like your body butter and the scrub I mentioned are not technically "emulsif*ied*" since the product isn't an emulsion. It's more accurate to say "emulsif*ying*" since it has the _potential _to emulsify. 

I realize I'm swimming upstream on this semantic point, however.


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## Winterx (Feb 14, 2021)

Thank you for the information!
Like I said it wasn't me who made this though. I purchased it from etsy actually. I don't see any reason to put it in either, but it's there. It's definitely a very non greasy body butter so I'm thinking that's why but I'm wondering if that can dry my skin out. I've tried using it with my skin a bit damp and it still feels dry a bit later.


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## DeeAnna (Feb 14, 2021)

I did a lot of trials of my emulsifying scrub and learned as I increased the proportion of emulsifier to fat, more of the fat would rinse off.  I suppose the emulsifier could emulsify the natural fats on a person's skin as well as the fats included in the product. Less emulsifier in proportion to fat -> more fat left on skin. But this is a scrub that's rinsed off with water, not a body butter that stays on the skin.

In a body butter, I can't quite understand why an emulsifier would contribute to your skin feeling dry in the sense of less fat on your skin so it feels tight, chapped, ashy and/or stripped. The texture of the emulsifier could alter the texture of the body butter on the skin, however. Maybe that alteration of the skin feel is what is making your skin feel drier? Not sure....

As lsg says, the emulsifier could be replaced with tapioca or arrowroot. You might find that version more pleasant.


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## Winterx (Feb 14, 2021)

DeeAnna said:


> I did a lot of trials of my emulsifying scrub and learned as I increased the proportion of emulsifier to fat, more of the fat would rinse off.  I suppose the emulsifier could emulsify the natural fats on a person's skin as well as the fats included in the product. Less emulsifier in proportion to fat -> more fat left on skin. But this is a scrub that's rinsed off with water, not a body butter that stays on the skin.
> 
> In a body butter, I can't quite understand why an emulsifier would contribute to your skin feeling dry in the sense of less fat on your skin so it feels tight, chapped, ashy and/or stripped. The texture of the emulsifier could alter the texture of the body butter on the skin, however. Maybe that alteration of the skin feel is what is making your skin feel drier? Not sure....
> 
> As lsg says, the emulsifier could be replaced with tapioca or arrowroot. You might find that version more pleasant.



Thanks for the information! I think that it maybe more or less just not helping the dryness because there is no fat left in the body butter. It's all emulsified. It's such a popular product on etsy too. It's definitely light like I said but maybe it's not making my skin dry it just isn't helping. I'll link the product here. 









						FRESH CUT PEACHES Whipped Body Butter Shea and Mango Body - Etsy
					

This Moisturizers item by WellEtched has 993 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Rancho Cucamonga, CA. Listed on Dec 2, 2022




					www.etsy.com
				






lsg said:


> I don't see the reason for emulsifying wax when there is no liquid added.  The recipe doesn't even include a carrier oil.  I would forget the emulsifying wax and add oil and some tapioca or arrowroot powder to cut down on the greasiness.  Here is a link to making easy whipped body butter.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.soapqueen.com/?s=whipped+body+butter


Thank you! But this isn't my recipe, I purchased it this way on etsy.


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## DeeAnna (Feb 15, 2021)

Winterx said:


> ...there is no fat left in the body butter. It's all emulsified....



But it's _not _emulsified. If there's no water, there's no emulsion. All the fat you put on your skin is still there.


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## Arimara (Feb 15, 2021)

DeeAnna said:


> I did a lot of trials of my emulsifying scrub and learned as I increased the proportion of emulsifier to fat, more of the fat would rinse off.  I suppose the emulsifier could emulsify the natural fats on a person's skin as well as the fats included in the product. Less emulsifier in proportion to fat -> more fat left on skin. But this is a scrub that's rinsed off with water, not a body butter that stays on the skin.
> 
> In a body butter, I can't quite understand why an emulsifier would contribute to your skin feeling dry in the sense of less fat on your skin so it feels tight, chapped, ashy and/or stripped. The texture of the emulsifier could alter the texture of the body butter on the skin, however. Maybe that alteration of the skin feel is what is making your skin feel drier? Not sure....
> 
> As lsg says, the emulsifier could be replaced with tapioca or arrowroot. You might find that version more pleasant.


Mango butter is a drier-feeling butter thanks to its astringency, I think. If the whip didn't feel as greasy, it's definately due to the mango butter, if nothing else is used.


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## TheGecko (Feb 15, 2021)

Winterx said:


> FRESH CUT PEACHES Whipped Body Butter Shea and Mango Body - Etsy
> 
> 
> This Moisturizers item by WellEtched has 993 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Rancho Cucamonga, CA. Listed on Dec 2, 2022
> ...



When posting ingredients, it is very, very important to make sure you post them in their entirety or make double sure link matches the product you are asking about. According to your link, the ingredients are: _Shea butter, mango butter, emulsifiers, stearic acid ( helps the skin remain hydrated by slowing moisture loss), water, optiphen, essential/fragrance oils._

Having the correct information can change everything. If the link is correct, the product contains water...hence the reason for the 'emulsifiers' (along with a preservative). And while you might have assumed that an emulsifier is limited to emulsifying wax, it can also include polysorbates, laureth-4, and potassium cetyl sulfate.

And has @DeeAnna has explained twice...NO WATER = NO EMULSION.

Think about what you said: "because there is no fat left in the body butter. It's all emulsified." To start with, to _emulsify_ something is to mix of two or more liquids that are normally immiscible (incapable of mixing or attaining homogeneity ) owing to liquid-liquid phase separation; an example of immiscible is oil and water.

Mango Butter and Cocoa Butter and miscible (capable of being mixed in any ratio *without* separation).  Mango Butter and Cocoa Butter are ALL fat.  If an emulsify wax took away all the 'fat', then there would be nothing in the jar except for the wax and fragrance oil.  But it is NOT the purpose of emulsifying wax or any emulsifier to take away anything, but simply serve as an aid in mixing two immiscible ingredients into a single mixture.


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## DeeAnna (Feb 15, 2021)

_"...Having the correct information can change everything...."_

I'm feeling embarrassed. I should have asked for the OP to provide a link to the product ingredients list rather than assume the info given in the first post was accurate. 

I wonder why the OP specifically mentioned there was no water and no preservative? The Etsy listing clearly discloses the product contains both.


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## Arimara (Feb 15, 2021)

DeeAnna said:


> _"...Having the correct information can change everything...."_
> 
> I'm feeling embarrassed. I should have asked for the OP to provide a link to the product ingredients list rather than assume the info given in the first post was accurate.
> 
> I wonder why the OP specifically mentioned there was no water and no preservative? The Etsy listing clearly discloses the product contains both.


Maybe she missed it? I did.


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## Winterx (Feb 15, 2021)

TheGecko said:


> When posting ingredients, it is very, very important to make sure you post them in their entirety or make double sure link matches the product you are asking about. According to your link, the ingredients are: _Shea butter, mango butter, emulsifiers, stearic acid ( helps the skin remain hydrated by slowing moisture loss), water, optiphen, essential/fragrance oils._
> 
> Having the correct information can change everything. If the link is correct, the product contains water...hence the reason for the 'emulsifiers' (along with a preservative). And while you might have assumed that an emulsifier is limited to emulsifying wax, it can also include polysorbates, laureth-4, and potassium cetyl sulfate.
> 
> ...


I've looked back at the link and see that now! On my jar, it only lists those 3 ingredients so I just thought that was all that was in there. Sorry about the confusion.



DeeAnna said:


> _"...Having the correct information can change everything...."_
> 
> I'm feeling embarrassed. I should have asked for the OP to provide a link to the product ingredients list rather than assume the info given in the first post was accurate.
> 
> I wonder why the OP specifically mentioned there was no water and no preservative? The Etsy listing clearly discloses the product contains both.



On the product itself the ingredients are as I listed them. I didn't think to look at the listing to see if they were different, but in the future I'll do that


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## DeeAnna (Feb 15, 2021)

@Winterx -- Oh, wow! I can see why you're just as confused as the rest of us!!!  The ingredients listing on the product label should contain ALL ingredients, not just some, so the confusion here is entirely the seller's problem. Consumers shouldn't have to go to the Etsy listing to get the whole story.


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## Arimara (Feb 15, 2021)

@Winterx I would email the vendor and bring the lable to their attention. Not giving an excuse but they could be unaware of the fact their label isn't listing all the ingredients in the  product.


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## Winterx (Feb 15, 2021)

DeeAnna said:


> @Winterx -- Oh, wow! I can see why you're just as confused as the rest of us!!!  The ingredients listing on the product lable should contain ALL ingredients, not just some, so the confusion here is entirely the seller's problem. Consumers shouldn't have to go to the Etsy listing to get the whole story.



Yeah, I agree. Unfortunately this has happened to be before. I bought a body wash that has several ingredients not listed including one that I personally cannot use. They also had on there it was a natural soap with no detergents but it was made with a soap base, it said it right on the bottle. So I always usually ask the seller if the list online is a full list. I just noticed my skin being a bit dry and looked at the jar but didn't recall the ingredients online. They should definitely update it!


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## Diane Marie (May 1, 2021)

Winterx said:


> Thank you for the information!
> Like I said it wasn't me who made this though. I purchased it from etsy actually. I don't see any reason to put it in either, but it's there. It's definitely a very non greasy body butter so I'm thinking that's why but I'm wondering if that can dry my skin out. I've tried using it with my skin a bit damp and it still feels dry a bit later.





Winterx said:


> I'm very much a novice in this world, but I'm trying to navigate it and learn all that I can. I like to make my own simple products like anhydrous body butter. For the more complicated emulsified body butter, I've chosen to purchase one to use while I learn. The ingredients are a follows: Shea butter, mango butter, emulsifying wax, and fragrance oil(if added).
> 
> I really loved this body butter until I really started thinking. Why is there an emulsifying agent but no water? Also no preservative.
> My question is, does this serve a purpose I am not seeing? Or will this dry my skin out more, because after a few uses it felt like it was just making it worse. Any light you can shed on this is appreciated. Thanks!


 I am in two body butter groups and making (waterless) Emulsified ( emulsifying) Body Butter is a common product being made right now, they are even using BTMS 50 in a “emulsified” body butter. I have questions people as to why, I think some people do this to stabilize their butter, not understanding waxes. I have no idea where this started.


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## asmita (May 1, 2021)

Can one not add an emulsifier without adding any water or water based ingredient to a mix of butters and oils to ensure that the butters don't melt in high temperature areas? The product will be more like balm than body butter though.


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## Diane Marie (May 1, 2021)

Winterx said:


> I've looked back at the link and see that now! On my jar, it only lists those 3 ingredients so I just thought that was all that was in there. Sorry about the confusion.
> 
> 
> 
> On the product itself the ingredients are as I listed them. I didn't think to look at the listing to see if they were different, but in the future I'll do that


This is t


TheGecko said:


> When posting ingredients, it is very, very important to make sure you post them in their entirety or make double sure link matches the product you are asking about. According to your link, the ingredients are: _Shea butter, mango butter, emulsifiers, stearic acid ( helps the skin remain hydrated by slowing moisture loss), water, optiphen, essential/fragrance oils._
> 
> Having the correct information can change everything. If the link is correct, the product contains water...hence the reason for the 'emulsifiers' (along with a preservative). And while you might have assumed that an emulsifier is limited to emulsifying wax, it can also include polysorbates, laureth-4, and potassium cetyl sulfate.
> 
> ...





asmita said:


> Can one not add an emulsifier without adding any water or water based ingredient to a mix of butters and oils to ensure that the butters don't melt in high temperature areas? The product will be more like balm than body butter though.



lf it were me formulating a body butter and I wanted to stabilize it I would use waxes/natural wax bees wax, Candelilla wax, cetyl alcohol, stearic acid, there are lots of waxes. I was wondering if there was a skin benefit from using E-wax and I made a sample and I felt nothing special other than I can make lotion on my skin if I sprinkle water on it and rub, that defeats my purpose since I use BB for the occlusive protections.


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## Rsapienza (May 2, 2021)

I recently saw someone in a FB group ask about e-wax in a body butter. I questioned why she was adding the wax at all, being that she listed all the other ingredients and it was not needed. She replied that e-wax is added to keep it from melting during the hotter months.


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## Diane Marie (May 2, 2021)

Rsapienza said:


> I recently saw someone in a FB group ask about e-wax in a body butter. I questioned why she was adding the wax at all, being that she listed all the other ingredients and it was not needed. She replied that e-wax is added to keep it from melting during the hotter months.


Yes wax is used to stabilize BB. But EWax in particular isn’t needed any wax can be used.


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## Rsapienza (May 3, 2021)

Diane Marie said:


> Yes wax is used to stabilize BB. But EWax in particular isn’t needed any wax can be used.


Yes, I am aware. I was simply stating the answer I received when I asked the same question the OP is asking.


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## Eepa (May 5, 2021)

I just experimented with anhydrous body butter adding several different emulsifiers, solid ester or fatty alcohol in to the basic mixture of butter, semi solid (babassu) oil and oil. Also added some coco caprylate after wards.

They all did something to the skin feel of the final product. I was most happy with the batches that had BTSM or myristyl myristate in them. They felt like they absorbed more quickly and left my skin feel less tacky and oily few minutes later. I went through Swift's blog to see anhydrous body butter modifiers and all my add-ons were picked there. The main point in the blog was to increase the melting point but also to pay attention to the skin feel. I didn't care so much about the melting point, that's never been an issue for me, but I wanted less greasy feeling body butter. And I think I succeeded in that. 

Using wax for the melt point increaser would also change the skin feel and I haven't tried it but I'm guessing the skin feel would be much more draggy and could also make the skin sticky as the wax absorbs poorly. Probably not a problem with body butter but I'm using deodorant that has wax in it and I need to clean my armpits with scratchy shower cloth semi regularly otherwise the wax will stick to my skin and keeps the sweat smell with it. Never had that problem before so I'm accusing the wax atm.


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## Sas2470 (May 28, 2021)

There is a soft and silky e wax that helps the texture of ur body butters. I think WSP carries it


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## hopalongkat (Nov 21, 2022)

DeeAnna said:


> @Winterx -- Oh, wow! I can see why you're just as confused as the rest of us!!!  The ingredients listing on the product label should contain ALL ingredients, not just some, so the confusion here is entirely the seller's problem. Consumers shouldn't have to go to the Etsy listing to get the whole story.


I know this is an older post, but hopefully you'll see this! I have seen this same body butter and have been racking my brain trying to figure out how water is FIFTH on the ingredient list! How does that work?! There's a very interesting making of video on the listings too. I swear it looks like they are mixing the emulsifier with water and then pouring the butters into that base. I'm SO curious to know what they are doing!! You should go have a look! I'm also wondering if the producer of the product is just not listing every single ingredient on the label. Which if that's the case...it's not great practice. Clearly it's not hurting them any though!


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## DeeAnna (Nov 21, 2022)

hopalongkat said:


> ...I have seen this same body butter and have been racking my brain trying to figure out how water is FIFTH on the ingredient list! How does that work?! ...



With this particular maker, I'm not sure what to think. Obviously the ingredients lists they have for this product are inconsistent, so perhaps the water isn't the 5th ingredient in order by weight. Or maybe water really is 5th by weight and it's a formulation the posters here, including me, don't have a lot of experience with. Hard to say.


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## hopalongkat (Nov 21, 2022)

DeeAnna said:


> With this particular maker, I'm not sure what to think. Obviously the ingredients lists they have for this product are inconsistent, so perhaps the water isn't the 5th ingredient in order by weight. Or maybe water really is 5th by weight and it's a formulation the posters here, including me, don't have a lot of experience with. Hard to say.


I was wondering if it was the water in oil method? Or maybe the other way around lol. I've purchased it too, and it really doesn't feel like anything revolutionary. It is good, but...feels like an emulsified body butter


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