# So you think you want to sell soap?



## Dorymae (Jul 18, 2014)

I thought a lot about this post. Whether or not I should post this or not and whether it would help anyone. I decided that if it helps one person then it will be worth it.

A little back history on me.  I'm 45 and since I was 20 I knew I wanted to work for myself.  I was always involved in something and I've owned numerous business.  I've sold stocks and bonds, vacuum cleaners, restaurant advertising, air purifiers, and owned a daycare.  Most of these businesses honestly did okay, not great but ended after between 3-7 years.

Starting a business is exciting, it is full of possibilities and expectations. I don't want to take that away, but I do want to temper it a bit with reality.  What I've learned, what all business owners eventually learn is no matter how much you love what you do it is work.  You will face trials, you will face financial trouble and to persevere through these things you need a plan.

First, if you are reading this and think that starting this business will help you make money when you have very little or none you are wrong.  This business will cost you money for at least the first 2-3 years.  If you can not afford that you will not succeed the way you think you will.

There are two types of business in the crafting industry. The hobby business and a money business.  A hobby business will basically pay some of what your hobby costs you.  It is also how most people start.  There is nothing wrong with this, it is slow and takes a while before you will see money come in.  Eventually with a good product and a bit of luck you might be able to step it up to a money business if you wish.  If you don't have much capital but love making soap this is the way to start.

The problem I've seen is a lot of newer soapers are really excited about starting a business without considering what the real cost of that business will be.  They have the idea of a business but no plan to implement it.

I've said before, "write a business plan" but I'm not sure most people even know what that means.  It's hard to do and it isn't fun because it brings the stark reality to light, but it is the single most important thing you can do if you want a business, hobby or money.

A business plan starts with who you are, why you want to do this, how are you different and goes on to how will you do this, who are your suppliers, what is your cost.  Continues with what is your market, how do you reach them, what do they want and how do you interact with them? Who is your competition, what do you do better? It should cover what work needs to be done, and who will do it and when.  Money is a major part of a business plan, who has it, who needs it, and where is it coming from.  What are your resources if you need more money to continue? Private loans? Bank loans? Savings?

There is so much more to consider other than, I can make soap - I should sell soap.

I've had business fail not because of money but because I didn't plan and when problems arouse they were overwhelming and I didn't know how to deal with them effectively.  Don't let this happen to you.

So you think you want to sell soap?  What's your plan?


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## cmzaha (Jul 18, 2014)

This is very good business advice from Dorymae. Even with the best of plans a bisiness can fail, but without a plan it is almost sure to fail. B&B businesses are brutal with the oversaturation in the market. I have seen well established soap businesses fail here in recent months.


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## HoneyLady (Jul 18, 2014)

Your local bookstore (hopefully a stand-alone, and not a chain :smile: ) has tons of books for starting businesses.  Maybe not specifically a SOAP business, but small businesses.  Many crafters turn their hobbies into businesses, or want to.

 There are some great _Dummies_ or _Idiot's_ guides to all kinds of stuff: writing a business plan, seeking funding, getting started, internet use and stores, etsy, E-Bay, etc.  They are worth your time.  Even MS Online has templates for Business Plans, Business Proposals, etc.

 Also consider your local chamber of commerce.  They can be great sources of information.  If you start a business, it's definitely worth it to join.  Your local Lion's / Rotary / etc. clubs can be helpful.  Some of it is about meeting people.  Be nice to EVERYONE, they may be in a position to help you someday. 

 Local colleges and universities often have "community" or "adult ed" classes that run part of a semester in the evenings.  They often have "how to turn your hobby into a business" classes.  Or things like "setting up bookkeeping for small businesses" and so on.  

 If you can find a retired CEO type through these connections, they are GREAT resources! They have RUN and built up businesses.  They are fabulous mentors, and know things you've never thought of.  Finding one of these is a treasure.

 If you are female, disabled, a vet, or a minority, (pretty much anything besides "average white male") there are people who want to help you.

 But you have to take yourself seriously for them to do the same.  So start reading, start learning, and start taking notes for your Mission Statement, Business Plan, Case Strategy, etc.  Don't know what those are?  Then go find out!  All of us started at the beginning, somewhere along the line.

 ~HoneyLady~


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## navigator9 (Jul 18, 2014)

You're so right, Dorymae. It's a very seductive idea, to be in business for yourself. Your own boss. But unless yours is a big business....you're the boss, and everything else! I don't think most people stop to think about what it takes to do it ALL. It's far from easy. I think most of us who are in business for ourselves have had days when we're tempted to throw in the towel, I know I have. More than once. But if you really love what you do, it's hard to let go. And so we hang on. But don't make the mistake of thinking it's easy.


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## maya (Jul 18, 2014)

Can I just add one tiny thing? Think about production. I know you love lavender mint, oatmeal, goats milk, orange patchouli, summer breeze, fill in the blank here soap. Think about making lavender mint, oatmeal, goats milk, orange patchouli, summer breeze, fill in the blank here  once a week for ever. Exactly the same, every single time.


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## Dorymae (Jul 18, 2014)

That is when it becomes work - and I can relate to that.  Many times I make what my customers want and what I want (experiments, different techniques and such) comes later.  To make money and have fun you must balance the two.


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## pamielynn (Jul 18, 2014)

maya said:


> Can I just add one tiny thing? Think about production. I know you love lavender mint, oatmeal, goats milk, orange patchouli, summer breeze, fill in the blank here soap. Think about making lavender mint, oatmeal, goats milk, orange patchouli, summer breeze, fill in the blank here  once a week for ever. Exactly the same, every single time.



AND making the ones you hate (lavender) over and over again because it's one of your top sellers. It's about the customer's wants, not just your own. Gah, I hate the smell of lavender.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jul 18, 2014)

A very good post and thread in general.


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## Aline (Jul 18, 2014)

All very good points. 

I think a business plan is a very useful exercise. However....I have found that all the plans I started out with got blown to the wind. I started out making skin care products using EOs and ended up making Hawaiian B & B products and perfumes. Planned to scale my initial line of products and distribute island-wide but couldn't figure out how to do it and finally realized I didn't even want to! I would much rather sell a wide variety of products online and at craft fairs (I do sell wholesale to a couple of stores but I don't want to expand that because I don't make enough $ and can't make enough product). I could never have planned or predicted this outcome....

I'm definitely with you on crunching the numbers though. I figure out how much each product costs, including packaging and shipping (a biggie here in Hawaii), so I know how much profit I make on each item and can decide what is worth wholesaling. How long it takes to make is in that equation too...

It's been a massive learning curve with many unexpected challenges! But I have loved (almost) every minute of it


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## Moonday (Jul 18, 2014)

Useful thread! Thank you!


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## Dorymae (Jul 18, 2014)

Aline said:


> I have found that all the plans I started out with got blown to the wind. I started out making skin care products using EOs and ended up making Hawaiian B & B products and perfumes. Planned to scale my initial line of products and distribute island-wide but couldn't figure out how to do it and finally realized I didn't even want to!



If you had a business plan and planned to distribute island-wide how is it that you didn't know how?  You can't plan something you don't know.  These are the flaws a business plan finds.  I am however glad you didn't want to and it worked out.



> I would much rather sell a wide variety of products online and at craft fairs (I do sell wholesale to a couple of stores but I don't want to expand that because I don't make enough $ and can't make enough product). I could never have planned or predicted this outcome....


Respectfully, yes you could have planned it. This is why you need to revise your business plan yearly to change with you.



> I'm definitely with you on crunching the numbers though. I figure out how much each product costs, including packaging and shipping (a biggie here in Hawaii), so I know how much profit I make on each item and can decide what is worth wholesaling. How long it takes to make is in that equation too...
> 
> It's been a massive learning curve with many unexpected challenges! But I have loved (almost) every minute of it



First let me apologize for using your post like this, but it is a great example.  Most people really think they planned it out and maybe at first they did actually write a plan.  However they omitted too much and so everything changed, but then a new plan isn't written.

I've done this. I hate writing business plans.  I mean complete plans.  Usually I would get to a part I was unsure about (like how I was going to distribute the way I wanted) and I would just skip it - telling myself I'd figure it out.

You can run a hobby business by the seat of your pants, I'm not saying you can't but you will find yourself so much more productive and efficient if you really follow a plan.

I admit to all here I HATE writing business plans - it's horrible all the thinking and planning and nothing creative in it - just facts.  It usually takes me 2 weeks to write mine - even now. However now that I know how incredibly helpful it is, I'm not exaggerating when I say it is the single most important thing you can do to succeed, I do it, and revise it when needed.

I can't make anyone write one, but I can tell you that if you do, and take your time and really do it, you will be more successful than if you don't.


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## dixiedragon (Jul 18, 2014)

If I won the lottery, I'd open up a little store and donate the proceeds (if any) to charity. I think the part of selling soap and toiletries that appeals to me is being able to make what I want, then being able to find customers to buy it so I can make room for more! Which is not how you run a business, lol.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jul 18, 2014)

It's something I struggle with, even in all the roles I have had as a programmer - spending all the time thinking about how it might work, it's hard not to just go and do it!  But it is important to really go in to this level of detail.


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## Dorymae (Jul 18, 2014)

dixiedragon said:


> If I won the lottery, I'd open up a little store and donate the proceeds (if any) to charity. I think the part of selling soap and toiletries that appeals to me is being able to make what I want, then being able to find customers to buy it so I can make room for more! Which is not how you run a business, lol.




Dixiedragon you may not know it but you may have just found your niche.  Using your profits for charity would be a very good marketing campaign as well.  You would need to work out the details of course - how much of the profit you could afford to give away (and still live and keep the business going) and which charities you would give to... but you know what - I think it's a brilliant idea.  If it really appeals to you I would start a plan and see where it leads!


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jul 18, 2014)

Aye - it may be that you need to keep a buffer zone of money in the company before you give it away, maybe wait two years and give then give the first year away so you are always in the black and have a buffer zone


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## cmzaha (Jul 18, 2014)

LOL, I make 25-30 lbs a month of Dragon's Blood and get so tired of brown soap! Then comes Plumeria, Frank and Myrr and the list goes on. Not much time for new soapies


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## LunaSkye (Jul 18, 2014)

This is good information, regardless of whether one decides to go into bath & body or baking cookies. I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but it may also be a good idea to decide if it is best to have a sole proprietorship or a partnership. If it's the latter, then serious thought should be given about whom one wishes to work with.

Lastly, though it is based on what I've read from an accounting handout, one's business is it's own entity. This means that one's personal money & the businesses money should be seperatly accounted for. Please enlighten me if I'm incorrect on something. Thank you, Dorymae, for the thread.


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## fuzz-juzz (Jul 18, 2014)

Great thread!  
I have to add if you don't have your time 100% devoted to soap, then don't even try startjng anything.
I work, study, have children and I tried to start selling just as hobby. To maybe cover my costs and if there's any $$$ leftover that would have been even better. But, with all the time I have taken up with other life responsibilities,  $1000 product insurance, $1000 public liability insurance and that's per year if I want to sell homemade cosmetics I knew I couldn't do it and that I shouldn't even try. Now I make soap for us, our extended family and I'm happy where I am.
I know of a local lady, who sells soaping supplies (bulk oil), I've been to her house and she and her husband breathe and live soap. Their house is full of supplies,  boxes, racks full of soap that's curing, their garage is turned into big soaping station with massive pots, bigg barrels of oils, etc. She made it, she loves what she's doing, her business took of and I'm really happy to see fellow soaper do well. But I can't see myself as her and that's OK, that's my decision for know. But in 10-20 years I might rethink it.  Oh and few moths ago they moved into little building they turned into factory and how lovely for them.


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## wetshavingproducts (Jul 18, 2014)

Aline said:


> All very good points.
> 
> I think a business plan is a very useful exercise. However....I have found that all the plans I started out with got blown to the wind. I started out making skin care products using EOs and ended up making Hawaiian B & B products and perfumes. Planned to scale my initial line of products and distribute island-wide but couldn't figure out how to do it and finally realized I didn't even want to! I would much rather sell a wide variety of products online and at craft fairs (I do sell wholesale to a couple of stores but I don't want to expand that because I don't make enough $ and can't make enough product). I could never have planned or predicted this outcome....



But the plan made you think and look at things and investigate and research. Just because you don't follow the plan doesn't mean that creating it didn't teach you valuable lessons, skills, and impart information you used in your new plan.

I'm not going to say you didn't plan it out as thoroughly as you might have, I'm sure we all could, but if we spent all our time planning, we'd never get around to doing.

But to add to this thread, as a business owner, there are times when I seriously just want a nice, steady, easy, 9-5. And these past three months is that time....... And it's not even like sales are bad. I'm doing better than last year, but the stress is extreme.


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## seven (Jul 19, 2014)

fuzz-juzz said:


> I know of a local lady, who sells soaping supplies (bulk oil), I've been to her house and she and her husband breathe and live soap. Their house is full of supplies,  boxes, racks full of soap that's curing, their garage is turned into big soaping station with massive pots, bigg barrels of oils, etc. She made it, she loves what she's doing, her business took of and I'm really happy to see fellow soaper do well. But I can't see myself as her and that's OK, that's my decision for know. But in 10-20 years I might rethink it.  Oh and few moths ago they moved into little building they turned into factory and how lovely for them.



are you in vic? if so, i think i know this lady. my mom did a basic cp class with her a few months back. she lives in donvale, right?


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## Aline (Jul 19, 2014)

wetshavingproducts said:


> But the plan made you think and look at things and investigate and research. Just because you don't follow the plan doesn't mean that creating it didn't teach you valuable lessons, skills, and impart information you used in your new plan.



Absolutely, I'm not against making business plans 



Dorymae said:


> If you had a business plan and planned to distribute island-wide how is it that you didn't know how? You can't plan something you don't know. These are the flaws a business plan finds. I am however glad you didn't want to and it worked out......



Because I had never tried producing large quantities before! Which is exactly my point: there are always going to be things you don't know in advance. I did research equipment, fulfilment companies etc but without a mentor who had traveled the same path there were issues that I could never have predicted. 



Dorymae said:


> Respectfully, yes you could have planned it. This is why you need to revise your business plan yearly to change with you.



I really could not have anticipated or planned that I would have been selling a wide variety of products online in my initial business plan. Etsy didn't exist back then and the only business model I was aware of was scaling a product line to sell wholesale. I take your point about revising your business plan yearly but I have found the whole journey to be more flowing than that in reality. 

I think a business plan is a useful exercise, but in my experience nothing is cut and dried with small businesses, and amazing things happen when you are open to the unexpected


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## fuzz-juzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Seven, yes, that's the one. They moved out to new premises.


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## HoneyLady (Jul 25, 2014)

It's interesting to see how we all agree, even though we all see it differently.  Dorymae hates writing business plans -- I love them.  I loathe running the numbers, but (thank GOD!!) DH enjoys that, and has run several businesses.  A GOOD business plan can make or break you with banks, building owners, the state, etc.

 If you are going into partnership, I cannot recommend enough that you get a legal partnership agreement drawn up, separate from, and along with all the other stuff.  I've seen a partnership where one partner died suddenly, quite young, and the spouse of the deceased got all the business assets, including $20 K in cash of the other partner, because there was not a partnership agreement in place.  If 2 spouses are partners, and there is a divorce, it's even uglier.  Drawing it up is a pain, but worth it.  Sometimes getting a lawyer early on, prevents needing lawyers later on.  Like a smallpox vaccine.  roblem:

 I am the sort to read everything I can lay my hands on before I start, and that has served me well, but you are never ready for EVERY thing.  Keep learning, keep asking, keep posting, and NEVER be ashamed to admit what you don't know.  Only be ashamed if you never make the effort to learn.

 I have a friend that opened a winery, and offered me words of wisdom re the winery, but I think it applies to ALL small businesses! :wink:

 Do you know to make a small fortune in the (hand crafted soaping and toiletries) __________ business?

 Start with a large fortune in the (hand crafted soaping and toiletries) _____
 business! 

 ~HoneyLady~


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## Relle (Jul 25, 2014)

HoneyLady said:


> I am the sort to read everything I can lay my hands on before I start, and that has served me well, but you are never ready for EVERY thing. Keep learning, keep asking, keep posting, and NEVER be ashamed to admit what you don't know. Only be ashamed if you never make the effort to learn.
> ~HoneyLady~



 I agree wholeheartedly - I don't know, what it is, that I don't know and if you don't learn something new every day you have wasted your time.


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## Jaccart789 (Jul 25, 2014)

LunaSkye said:


> This is good information, regardless of whether one decides to go into bath & body or baking cookies. I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but it may also be a good idea to decide if it is best to have a sole proprietorship or a partnership. If it's the latter, then serious thought should be given about whom one wishes to work with.
> 
> Lastly, though it is based on what I've read from an accounting handout, one's business is it's own entity. This means that one's personal money & the businesses money should be seperatly accounted for. Please enlighten me if I'm incorrect on something. Thank you, Dorymae, for the thread.




LunaSkye...Absolutely the money must be separate! My husband has 3 successful medical practices, and one of his previous partners was taking money and using it to fund his lifestyle. The CPA figured this out and said it looks bad to the IRS... can cause all kinds of problems, even if its technically his money.


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## rogue (Jul 26, 2014)

So is it totally wrong of me to have my underlying plan to be to cover all my costs of supplies, insurances etc so I can just make more soap to sell? I know I'm going to not quit my job to do just cosmetics & soap. Paying off med school loans till I die. This keeps me sane & not killing my clients, staff, BF, parents, boss.....


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## Dorymae (Jul 26, 2014)

rogue said:


> So is it totally wrong of me to have my underlying plan to be to cover all my costs of supplies, insurances etc so I can just make more soap to sell? I know I'm going to not quit my job to do just cosmetics & soap. Paying off med school loans till I die. This keeps me sane & not killing my clients, staff, BF, parents, boss.....




That is not your plan, that is what you want to achieve.  Your plan is how you will do that.  How will you make enough to cover the cost of supplies, insurance and ensure you can make and sell more soap?  That is your plan.


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## cmzaha (Jul 26, 2014)

Corporations are their own entity and have to be dealt with different than simple partnerships. Corporations own the money not you which is why you would have to keep all seperate.


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## not_ally (Jul 26, 2014)

In the process of forming an ayurvedic hair care products line w/my sister and another friend, and the process of hashing out all the details involved in drawing up a business plan has been critical.  In addition to making ourselves hold our feet to the fire w/r/t all the dry, dusty and paradoxically terrifying details of business planning, it has been unexpectedly illuminating because it makes us address how we want to go about things, sometimes that is v., v. different.  

Eg, we will be getting ALL the product from a source who is a family friend of my dad's ("x") although we will repackage/market, etc.  From the beginning I have assumed that we will not go forward without an exclusive US distribution contract (she is in India) because her product will be critical to this business; lose it (or have it be easy for competitors to access on an unlimited basis) and things will pretty much be a sad, savings account draining bust.  Turns out today my sister (touchy feely new age type) thinks we should "have open hearts and trust in "x" and the universe."  Me and our other partner, both lawyers, were horrified.  It is a deal-breaker for us, good thing we figured it out now.  

Rogue, how on earth will you have time to make and, even worse, sell soap, most docs I know (incldg my other sister) work so much that they would kill themselves before taking on a part time project selling something


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## rogue (Jul 27, 2014)

@not_ally I do addiction med. 9-5. No call. But I'm an emotional dishrag when I come home. I sit in between clients playing with soapcalc, creating new fo combos in my head, & mixing nail colour batches (also in my head). I've got a TON of testers with my nurses & counselors. I have 4 different offices I go to


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## CanaDawn (Jul 27, 2014)

not_ally said:


> In the process of forming an ayurvedic hair care products line w/my sister and another friend, and the process of hashing out all the details involved in drawing up a business plan has been critical.  In addition to making ourselves hold our feet to the fire w/r/t all the dry, dusty and paradoxically terrifying details of business planning, it has been unexpectedly illuminating because it makes us address how we want to go about things, sometimes that is v., v. different.



VERY good insight.  I've seen partnerships fall apart, taking the personal relationship with them, because these things were never opened to discussion or observation before there was a lot of money riding on the outcomes.


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## not_ally (Jul 27, 2014)

There is *so* much to think about w/partnerships, LLCs, whatever the corp. form is (we have not decided on that yet ourselves) when there is more than 1 person involved.  It is not humanly possible to anticipate/contract around every future problem, but it sure helps to at least think hard, talk about, and address - in writing - the ones that you can.  

For example, "x", our supplier in my previous post, could verbally guarantee exclusivity with all the good will and sincerity in the world.  And then might get run over by a car tomorrow.  Her husband does not know us from Adam, who knows what he could decide.  The wrong way, and our business would be pretty much dead.

Similarly, one of the three of us could die, and unless our partnership/LLC interests (haven't decided on this yet) are addressed the consequences could be a big, big mess depending on who inherited the decedent's interest in the company.  Anyway, this is just *one* issue, there are so many more, and a business plan really does help you to identify them and makes you deal with them, even when you don't want to.

I can feel all the "this is why I hate lawyers" vibes radiating as people read this, me too!  But you have to deal with it ....

Rogue, bless your heart, you are doing good, necessary work.  I am really glad you have a 9-5, that is a little better than the alternative, even if you are shuttling b/w places.  Rock on with your soapy self.


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## CanaDawn (Jul 27, 2014)

not_ally said:


> I can feel all the "this is why I hate lawyers" vibes radiating as people read this, me too!  But you have to deal with it ....



lol, actually, I don't hate 'em.  sure there are some that are just after the most money, but I have dealt with a few very respectable ones who really did want to protect their clients.  It's different if the lawyer is "comin' to git ya" but if you do a little interviewing, there are plenty of decent people who work in the field of law!   

(Better to meet them at this end of the possible problems than at the far side of them, I think!)


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## reinbeau (Jul 29, 2014)

This is a very useful thread.  I know I am not going to be a fulltime soaper for a living.  I love it, it's a neat hobby that fits in with my other hobbies, gardening and beekeeping.  All of which I make a few pesos on - and will continue to grow as I get older, all of it together with my Pilates instruction will pay the bills, but I'll never make a killing on any of it.


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## not_ally (Jul 30, 2014)

Anne, sounds like you do what you love, love what you do, and it is working out.  You are a wise woman.


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