# Another preservative guestion....sigh....



## busymakinsoap! (Jun 3, 2011)

hi everyone,

Im stuck!  I've been searching the net and info on here and cant find an answer.

I am making an emulsified body scrub (no water), its gone well.  I used LGP as a preserve.
I have just read on swiftcraftymonkey's lotion print off info sheet, that LGP is not suitable for any products that dont contain water.

My problem is I dont have any of the other preservatives that she mentions available to me or any of the ones mentioned in this forum.

Is LGP ok for an emulisfied scrub?

if not I have these available:

AROMAPHEN™
Benzoin Tincture
Phenoxyethanol
Naturagard Ultra™ NEW NATURAL PRESERVATIVE Previously known as "Geogaurd Ultra"

It says they need to be combined with other preservatives - how do I do that?

HELP this is sooooo frustrating.


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## paillo (Jun 3, 2011)

alas, my memory has failed me, what is LGP?


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## soapbuddy (Jun 3, 2011)

paillo said:
			
		

> alas, my memory has failed me, what is LGP?


Liquid Germall Plus?
I know benzoin is not a preservative and I'm not familiar with Aromaphen.
Do you have the INCI?


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## busymakinsoap! (Jun 3, 2011)

Yes liquid germal plus

Here are the INCI:

AROMAPHEN™

INCI: phenoxyethanol, capric caprylic triglyceride, d-alpha tocopherol 

Naturagard Ultra™ a Natural Preservative (previously known as geogaurd ultra)

INCI: Gluconolactone (and) Sodium Benzoate

Thank you (none of that mean anythin to me!)

Ive just found that I can source Optiphen from my Australian FO supplier, would prefer to buy locally if I can though


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## soapbuddy (Jun 3, 2011)

The Aromaphen might work since those ingredients would mix with oils. If you can get Optiphen, that's what I would go with.


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## Manda (Jun 4, 2011)

I wouldn't advise to use the following preservatives as they are all for products that contain water:

Liquid Germall Plus
Naturagard Ultra / Geoguard Ultra
Optiphen

Aromaphen is basically just phenoxyethanol as the capric caprylic triglyceride is the INCI name for Fractionated Coconut Oil (which is not a preservative) and d-alpha tocopherol is Vitamin E (which is an antioxidant but not a preservative).

Phenoxyethanol can be used in oil-only products so that or Aromaphen may be OK for you to use, but... it may be weak in fungus-fighting ability.

A broad spectrum preservative system such as Phenonip (also known as Phenoserve) may be the most reliable way to go. Phenonip contains Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Ethylparaben, Butylparaben, Propylparaben and Isobutylparaben. That ingredient list may sound scary but remember you are using no more than you would use Phenoxyethanol alone, and in fact, when you use a broad spectrum preservative system the preservatives work synergistically so you would actually use slightly less. For instance you may be able to replace 1% Phenoxyethanol in a recipe with 0.7% Phenonip.

All SwiftCraftyMonkey's preservative information is here: http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/p ... tives.html

I hope that helps.

-Amanda


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## busymakinsoap! (Jun 4, 2011)

Manda said:
			
		

> I wouldn't advise to use the following preservatives as they are all for products that contain water:
> 
> Liquid Germall Plus
> Naturagard Ultra / Geoguard Ultra
> ...



OMG Amanda you must be the only other NZer on here - do you know how lonely its been.....lol

the print out I am referring too from swiftcraftymonkey says:

"Optiphen.......used in the cool down stage.....Offers broad spectrum protection. Not suitable for water only products.......But good for anhydrous or oil heavy creations, so good for emulsified scrubs or even lotion bars!....."

Do you order locally or abroad. I use Aromatics and More, but she doesnt seem to have a great range of preserves.

Im happy with using my LGP for lotions, seems good so far.  Had used it in scrubs only to discover later that its not good.

Thanks for all your info


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## busymakinsoap! (Jun 4, 2011)

I just read your link Amanda she completley contradicts what she said in her 'introduction to lotions' that I quoted!

Your link says:

"Its suggested use is at 0.75% to 1.5% in the cool down phase of our product (best below 37.5˚C or 100˚F). It is water soluble, so it's not suitable for anhydrous products or things like sugar scrubs that do not contain water. It's best in products with a pH of 6.0."

What the hell?


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## Manda (Jun 4, 2011)

Wow, yes, she does contradict herself! I have just searched on about 6 sites and finally found this: http://www.lotioncrafter.com/optiphen.html Lotioncrafter reckon it can be used in anhydrous (water-free) products.

I order preservatives from the US or Australia. I am not confident using the ones available locally, though they could be just as effective.

Surely we're not the only Kiwis on SMF!?! I'm sure there must be more lurking around...   There is an email list (Soapcraft) that is real popular in NZ... I think Kiwis must prefer to 'kick it old school' haha    That or most people are still on dialup and this new fan-dangled web forum business simply chokes the bandwidth! Ahh NZ, how I love thee  

By the way, I just checked out your blog and your soap is awesome!!! I love your packaging too. Nice work!


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## busymakinsoap! (Jun 4, 2011)

Wow, thank you very much for taking your time Amanda, you obviously know your stuff! You've been very helpful.

My aussie supplier stocks Optiphen so it makes things nice and easy.

 I'm pretty sure we're the only kiwi's. I spend most of my free time feeding my CP addiction and your the first I have come across.  There may be some on other areas of this forum though.

Yep I am part of the soapcraft group, dunno how to say it....its kinda a different vibe to here....???  I learnt everything I know about soaping from this site, but I think soaping in NZ is a lot different, so I find it harder to relate, and Im super new to lotions and scrubs.

*click* - Are you the Amanda who made the lotion they were all raving about in the last swap?


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## Tacoma (Jun 4, 2011)

I find it interesting that you are calling your product an emulsified scrub but you say it has no water in it. An emulsion is a blend of water suspended in oil. If it does not have water in it is is not emulsified. I use LGP in my scrubs and it seems to work just fine. I have never had a problem with anything growing in my scrubs and they are left in the shower and I know they get water in them when being used. I also use LGP in my lotions and creams and I have had them tested and the results were VERY good. I hope this helps a little. Dave


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## paillo (Jun 4, 2011)

anyone tried Germall Powder or Leuicidal liquid in their anhydrous scrubs? and with what results?  

Leuicidal liquid is soluble in glycerin but immiscible in oil (i had to look that up, means won't mix, like oil and water), and it's a natural preservative. at 2 percent the price may be a little steep, and i understand it imparts a slight odor (i hope not of radishes!). but i may give it a try and add some glycerin, which i HATE, but if it works, so be it... 

would LOVE to hear others' experiences with either of these preservatives, thanks!


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## busymakinsoap! (Jun 4, 2011)

Thank you Dave, if you search emulsified scrubs on here you will find lots of recipes.  The scrubs use ewax and the end result is a scrub that has more of a whipped texture to it, which I prefer over standard scrubs which I find to be oily and messy.

I agree that LGP seems to work fine in lotions, but I would rather use something that is not water soluble for my scrub since I have no water in it.

I have used LGP in my test batches of scrub, they seem fine, but then how would I know? Ive read that by the time they smell funky its way too late.  Best to play it safe I think.


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## Lindy (Jun 5, 2011)

Pailo I'm switching over to Germall Plus Powder and so far I've used it in a GM Lotion.  I love it- the product tests clean and it mixed it easily.  One of the things I like about this is that there is no Propylene Glycol in it *that was the carrier*....  I bought a pound of it as I plan on a full switch-over...


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## paillo (Jun 5, 2011)

coming from you, lindy, i take that as a great recommendation. ordering some from lotioncrafter right now. thank you!!!


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## paillo (Jun 5, 2011)

well, after i submitted an order for Germall powder i found this, NeoDefend, and decided to try it too. http://www.lotioncrafter.com/neodefend.html

anyone tried this one?


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## Manda (Jun 5, 2011)

busymakinsoap! said:
			
		

> Yep I am part of the soapcraft group, dunno how to say it....its kinda a different vibe to here....???  I learnt everything I know about soaping from this site, but I think soaping in NZ is a lot different, so I find it harder to relate, and Im super new to lotions and scrubs.


It is a different format. I do enjoy it but it is mainly about soap and I'm more into other things at the moment but still like to keep in contact with what other people are up to and participate where I can.



			
				busymakinsoap! said:
			
		

> *click* - Are you the Amanda who made the lotion they were all raving about in the last swap?


Yep that is me!


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## Lindy (Jun 5, 2011)

paillo said:
			
		

> well, after i submitted an order for Germall powder i found this, NeoDefend, and decided to try it too. http://www.lotioncrafter.com/neodefend.html
> 
> anyone tried this one?



First off - thank you   that was a really nice thing to say..

On the subject of neodefend I've used it under the trade name of Geoguard Ultra.  I find it quite expensive and you have to use up to 2% in your formulations which is pricey especially when you compare it to the Germall Plus Powder with a much lower usage rate.

The Neodefend does work, I just find it too expensive....


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