# Help developing new recipe



## Joey1919 (Aug 9, 2021)

Hello, I'm new to the forum and soap making. Never thought this was something I'd be interested in but i received some Dr Squatch soaps for fathers day and really liked them. I didnt like the $7 a bar price tag though. So I jumped on youtube and made my first batch and it turned into soap.

So now I have an idea for a very specific soap that id like to make and would like some suggestions on where to start. So, I spend a fair amount of time off-grid, living out of a backpack. I have a 10 day alaska trip coming up. Which brings me to the soap recipe.

I'm looking to make a multi purpose bar, here are my goals

-Lye based soap
-It would be nice if it would also do a decent job as a shampoo at least for a few days
-med to heavy exfoliation
-no ingredients that would cause trouble downstream if I'm bathing in a creek
- I'd really like it to smell like pine and or cedar. I'm not opposed to a pine tar soap if thats what it takes
-no terribly expensive or hard to source ingredients
- I love coffee and like the idea of using it as an exfoliant. Pumice, sugar and granulated lemon peels seem like  logical choices as well.

I know this will take some dialing in but looking for suggestion on where to start. Id love some suggestions on what oils to use, essintial oils and amounts, and exfloiants. No need for coloring or fancy shapes or additives. Im not looking to get into the soap business. This will be for personal use. 

I would love to hear everyones thoughts, suggestions and questions.

Thanks


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## kagey (Aug 10, 2021)

I'm working many hours doing the same. Welcome to the club.

This takes a ton of time to research.
You'll need to learn how to use a soap calculator.
One way I learned is by recreating other people's recipes...
a lot of soapmakers will list the ingredients (including distilled water and lye) in the order of most to least.
so you can sort of see what their recipe might look like.
See my feable attempt at recreating Squash's recipe. (it's probably wrong)
But it will give you an idea of what soaping oils you might want to consider.

I'm currently using used coffee grounds as an exfoliant in a recipe.
But do you want that in your hair? Or downstream?
Maybe consider using kosher salt? Or ground walnut shells?
(Sugar doesn't work as an exfoliant - but does help boost lather/bubble.)

Essential oil are a math problem of their own.
Overall, there's a percentage of how much you should use in your recipe.
And then each EO has a max rate as well before it becomes a skin irritant.

Where to start?
I started on youtube learning how to make beef tallow CP soap.
and then ventured on from there.
There are a lot of great soaping resourses available on the internet.
And a ton of great videos -- as well as articles from BrambleBerry, Soap Queen, etc.

Hope this helps.


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## Joey1919 (Aug 10, 2021)

Thanks for the info kagey. I have familiarized myself with the soap calculators and explored YouTube. Thats where I found the the recipe for my first batch. Point taken on the coffee, I was just thinking that my coffee grinder would allow me to adjust grind to find the right consistency. But you're right, probably not the best choice for hair.

As far as the oils, I was hoping someone could steer me towards choices that would increase the soaps shampoo quality without sacrificing cleansing too much, if that's possible. Not asking for exact percentages just general recommendations.

Thanks again


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## Susie (Aug 10, 2021)

I would suggest you skip the exfoliant part until you get a handle on making soap. Same for essential or fragrance oils or colorants. Not for forever, mind you, but just until you have one successful batch under your belt. Also, the national forest service and environmental agencies still recommend you go at least 200 feet from a water source to use any soaps whatsoever. Just saying.

My basic recipe can be made with oils you can buy at your local grocery store:

Lard-45-55%
Olive Oil-15%
Coconut Oil-15-20%
Castor Oil-5% (found in the laxative section of Walmart among others)

If you have oily skin, go heavier on the Coconut Oil and lighter on the lard. If dry skin, do the opposite. Play with this recipe until you figure out if your skin likes it.

Since you are not adding pretty colors or scents, you can use the heat transfer method to melt your hard oils. Just weigh out your oils into one bowl, then mix your lye and water in another. Once your lye is completely dissolved, pour that hot mixture over your oils and proceed to stickblending. Once you see full emulsification, pour into the mold. Most people over stick blend when they start, so if I tell you to stop once it is no longer separating, you might hit it right. This mixture is going to get hot fast, so I would not over fret about insulating. If you get partial gel, it is not a big deal as this soap is just to get started. Don't forget you are going to have to wait 4-6 weeks to let it cure.

Then, once you have one successful batch under your belt, you can explore additives as well as alternate recipes.

If you have not started accumulating equipment, your local Dollar Tree as well as thrift stores are the best places to start. Goggles, gloves, spatulas, bowls (just be sure it has a 2 or a 5 on the bottom), and even the drawer dividers to use as molds all come from dollar stores. And I got a couple of stick blenders (always get more than one if getting from thrift stores) and other items from thrift stores. Spend your money on a good scale. I think highly of Amazon.com: My Weigh KD-8000 Kitchen And Craft Digital Scale & AC Adapter: Home & Kitchen


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## Joey1919 (Aug 10, 2021)

Thanks Susie,

I have made my first batch of soap, actually I just bathed with it for the first time last night. I have all the equipment and made my own mold out of plywood and lined it with butcher paper. 

Because of my profession I'm familiar with batching things in specic amounts and temperatures. I already have scales that read in grams.

I was given some whole luffa by a neighbor and ground that and added to the soap. It was more trouble than I want to deal with again.


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## amd (Aug 10, 2021)

Joey1919 said:


> I have a 10 day alaska trip coming up.


When you say "coming up" I really hope that means you have time to allow a proper cure for the soap.

My advice, use a simple recipe - if you like the first batch you made, why not use that? Skip the exfoliant, especially if you intend to use this short term on hair. I think a small amount cedarwood EO is always nice. You'll want to use it within a safe range, so be sure you understand IFRA guidelines. While many on the forum do not recommend lye soap as shampoo, I think using it short term or if you have short hair that gets regular cuts will be fine. I can't speak on the environmental impact, hopefully someone has some input. My first thought is that the small amount of soap from one person bathing going into a natural waterway probably isn't going to have an impact.


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## Zing (Aug 10, 2021)

Welcome, welcome and safe travels to you.

I can't help you on the bathing in a stream front.  (I'll overshare, though, and say I'm jealous -- skinny dippin' is a simple pleasure.)

When I started I too was drawn to the idea of pine essential oil.  However, to me, it was too pinesol-y.  I MUCH prefer fir needle essential oil.  I use at least a titch of cedarwood in most of my blends.  Find Free Essential Oil Blends - Modern Soapmaking is a great resource -- you can choose essential oils or spend hours browsing various blends.

Most of my soaping oils are found in grocery stores (palm, coconut, rice bran, castor) and the rest of my equipment is from thrift store or dollar stores.  I shoot for a ratio of 60:40 hard:soft oils.

I like to use already-shredded loofah, coffee grounds, poppy seeds as exfoliants.

Making pine tar soap is on my bucket list but a quick search on this forum will show you that it is tricky to work with (quick to trace), just FYI.

Keep us posted on your progress!


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## Joey1919 (Aug 10, 2021)

Hey amd,

Yeah I just mention the alaska thing as an example, but yes I'm 6 weeks out from that now.

And yes, short duration use, short hair, cut every couple weeks. I'm with you on that one

Hey Zing, 

Thanks for the advice, I've seen the fir oil and now that I think of it I would probably like that better. I bought some beard oil a few years back that was fir scented and the smell was amazing. The the beard oil itself was just too expensive for my taste. Do you have any reccomemdation on waht kind of percentage to start with for the fir needle oil?

Are the poppy seeds scratchy at all? I used some soap with sand as the exfoliant and that was a bit scratchy for me. However I think sourcing the correct / finer sand would be a good option.


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## Zing (Aug 10, 2021)

Joey1919 said:


> Hey Zing,
> 
> Thanks for the advice, I've seen the fir oil and now that I think of it I would probably like that better. I bought some beard oil a few years back that was fir scented and the smell was amazing. The the beard oil itself was just too expensive for my taste. Do you have any reccomemdation on waht kind of percentage to start with for the fir needle oil?
> 
> Are the poppy seeds scratchy at all? I used some soap with sand as the exfoliant and that was a bit scratchy for me. However I think sourcing the correct / finer sand would be a good option.


Now you can make your own beard oil!
Poppy seeds are super mild.  I spent last week daily using my poppy seed soap and I threw a s load in there.
I don't have my soap notes with me right now but will look for my notes on fir needle essential oil.  If I forget to get back to you, please "@ mention" me here.  If you put the @ symbol in front of a member name, they get a notification, like this: @Joey1919.


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## Nona'sFarm (Aug 10, 2021)

Hi @Joey1919, soap needs to cure for at least 4 weeks, so for best results, do a few small batches now. Just FYI, I let my CP soap cure for at least 8 weeks. I let my HP soap cure for at least 4 weeks.
Several other members have given you ideas on recipes and calculating fragrances. My favorite woodsy blend is 3/4 cedarwood eo and 1/4 rosemary eo. One fun trick to testing EO blends is the toothpick method. Dip toothpicks into the EOs you want to try and put into a plastic ziploc bag in the same ratio that you want to try. For example, put 3 cedarwood toothpicks and 1 rosemary toothpick in a plastic bag to test the above combination. Leave for 4 - 24 hours, then take a whiff to see how you like it.
Have fun with  your soaping.


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## Joey1919 (Aug 10, 2021)

Zing, I am definitely going to try to replicate that beard oil now.

Nona's farm that sounds like a good trick, thank you


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## Relle (Aug 10, 2021)

I agree with Susie about not using EO's, FO's and colourants in the soap.  Think of animals drinking water down stream.


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## Zing (Aug 11, 2021)

I love this blend that I call Winter Blend.  Smells outdoorsy and forest-y.  Equal parts bergamot, eucalyptus, fir needle, peppermint, cedarwood, rosemary.

Also, try 60/30/10/titch of fir needle, rosemary , spearmint, cedarwood.

Another complex and outdoorsy blend is 3/16 rosemary, 3/16 tea tree, 5/16 bergamot, 5/16 litsea cubeba.

Have fun testing and soaping!


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## HoppyCosmetics (Aug 11, 2021)

Joey1919 said:


> So now I have an idea for a very specific soap that id like to make and would like some suggestions on where to start. So, I spend a fair amount of time off-grid, living out of a backpack. I have a 10 day alaska trip coming up. Which brings me to the soap recipe. I'm looking to make a multi purpose bar, here are my goals


Since you're out backpacking alot, there's a type of soap you could make called Soleseife Soap (aka. Sailor's Soap), and its one that you can use in seawater aswell as fresh water. Its made with salt water and is versatile, as it lathers really well in both types of water. The Nerdy Farm Wife has some online tutorials, and there's a decent youtube video about it here:


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## rdc1978 (Aug 11, 2021)

Susie said:


> If you have not started accumulating equipment, your local Dollar Tree as well as thrift stores are the best places to start. Goggles, gloves, spatulas, bowls (just be sure it has a 2 or a 5 on the bottom), and even the drawer dividers to use as molds all come from dollar stores. And I got a couple of stick blenders (always get more than one if getting from thrift stores) and other items from thrift stores. Spend your money on a good scale. I think highly of Amazon.com: My Weigh KD-8000 Kitchen And Craft Digital Scale & AC Adapter: Home & Kitchen



I second this emotion. The Dollar Tree in my area actually has an arts and crafts second where you can pick up craft sticks/bamboo sticks/little squirt bottles.  But I cannot go into a dollar tress and not leave with like 2 or 3 plastic measuring cups and a few mini silicone spatulas.  Whisks and small spoons are good to buy there too.  I still have a set of "dessert shot glasses" that I use for mixing mica and oil.  

Soaping 101 did a super cool video once about making a soap from dollar store ingrediants (I'm pretty sure they assumed you had your own lye and stick blender))


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## Susie (Aug 11, 2021)

Soaparonie said:


> Since you're out backpacking alot, there's a type of soap you could make called Soleseife Soap (aka. Sailor's Soap), and its one that you can use in seawater aswell as fresh water. Its made with salt water and is versatile, as it lathers really well in both types of water. The Nerdy Farm Wife has some online tutorials, and there's a decent youtube video about it here:




I do not consider solseife a beginner soap, neither do I suggest using a salt water brine soap near fresh water sources such as streams and lakes. 

Lather ability has nothing to do with safety out in the wild. Safety around water has far more to do with lack of detergents or additives that you would not want in your water sources. I do consider hand made soap that is made with a care as to ingredients and methods used _fairly_ safe to use out in natural environments, but the NWS and EPA do not agree about their safety closer than 200 feet to a stream, creek, river, or lake.


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## Nona'sFarm (Aug 11, 2021)

I almost suggested to try brine soap, as it is my favorite bath soap. But i 'm not sure the salt is a good idea for freshwater. However, I don't think the salt from using brine soap to bathe is going to add much salt to fresh water. I use one ounce of fine sea salt in a recipe that makes 6 individual bars of soap. One bar probably lasts me at least a month. I don't consider it too complex of a soap to make, if you keep it simple (no fancy additives or fragrances). One draw back is the fact that it is best poured into individual molds vs. a slab or loaf mold. If you made a slab mold, you could make dividers for individual bars. Or possibly use old individual small food containers - never tried this, so may not be feasible with the heat of the soap as it saponifies (sp?).
However, before I started making brine soap, I would make sure I had a base recipe that lathered and cleaned in the way I liked.  Then try using a brine as my liquid and see how I liked it. My brine is 1 part fine sea salt to 4 parts distilled water.


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## Joey1919 (Aug 11, 2021)

@Zing , I found out that particular beard oil company has shut down but I looked at an old bottle and the EOs used were Rosemary, bergamot, fir needle, pine and frankincense. 

I think ive got a good start for my soap, I'll get the ingredients together and let y'all know how it goes.

Thanks to everyone


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## HoppyCosmetics (Aug 11, 2021)

Susie said:


> I do not consider solseife a beginner soap, neither do I suggest using a salt water brine soap near fresh water sources such as streams and lakes. Safety around water has far more to do with lack of detergents or additives that you would not want in your water sources.


He asked for versatile. Also, safety around streams and lakes? It rains, there's air pollution, dust, things that settle on the water surface, animals pee and excrement in those water sources, its not all untainted and magical. Water has to be tested, treated or filtered before drinking it to remove these things, so i doubt a little bit of salt water and natural oils would harm it. There's no reason why a beginner couldn't make this.


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## Joey1919 (Aug 11, 2021)

Noah's farm and soaparonie, I agree, even a very small stream is flowing hundreds of gallons a minute. The amount of salt you're taking about would be less than what i was washing off of my body in sweat.


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## cmzaha (Aug 11, 2021)

kagey said:


> (Sugar doesn't work as an exfoliant - but does help boost lather/bubble.)



I am a little late to this party, but I will correct this statement. While most do not use sugar as an exfoliant it certainly can be used. In the past, I have made sugar bars very similar to salt bars without having to use the high superfat since sugar does not deter from the lather. When and if I ever get back to making soap I will be making some more since I loved them. I just used 100% sugar the same as making a salt bar. 

I also agree a little salt is not going to hurt a stream. Also if one is worried about the tiny percentage of fo or EO in a bar of soap versus a stream make an unfragranced soap. 

Do remember Joey, your soap needs to cure at least 4 weeks so if you have a trip coming up you need to plan ahead.


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## rdc1978 (Aug 12, 2021)

cmzaha said:


> I am a little late to this party, but I will correct this statement. While most do not use sugar as an exfoliant it certainly can be used. In the past, I have made sugar bars very similar to salt bars without having to use the high superfat since sugar does not deter from the lather. When and if I ever get back to making soap I will be making some more since I loved them. I just used 100% sugar the same as making a salt bar.
> 
> I also agree a little salt is not going to hurt a stream. Also if one is worried about the tiny percentage of fo or EO in a bar of soap versus a stream make an unfragranced soap.
> 
> Do remember Joey, your soap needs to cure at least 4 weeks so if you have a trip coming up you need to plan ahead.



Oh. I'd never heard of a sugar bar.  I wonder if there are threads on here.  I'd like to try that!


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## Susie (Aug 13, 2021)

Soaparonie said:


> He asked for versatile. Also, safety around streams and lakes? It rains, there's air pollution, dust, things that settle on the water surface, animals pee and excrement in those water sources, its not all untainted and magical. Water has to be tested, treated or filtered before drinking it to remove these things, so i doubt a little bit of salt water and natural oils would harm it. There's no reason why a beginner couldn't make this.



I am quite well aware of what goes into water that is out in the wild. There is a reason they suggest you use a Life Straw or other filtration/purification devices and methods for drinking water. I am not telling you MY opinion of what is safe or not, only what the "powers-that-be" determine what is safe or not. You get to determine what actions you take. I was pretty sure I made myself clear on that, but apparently not.

I still do not consider a solseife a beginner soap. Only because I usually suggest (see my many posts in the beginner forum stretching over the last 7 or so years) keeping the first few batches as simple as possible to get people used to making soap successfully. I also don't consider salt a safe additive to use around lakes where there will be fish fry (babies) around the perimeter of the lake and they are much more sensitive to environmental changes than adult fish.

I also do not consider solseife any more versatile than non-salt-containing soap. Why would you think it would be? There is no magic in salt for soap. The only thing a "versatile" soap needs to have to be used in either fresh or salt water is a very high Coconut Oil content.


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## HoppyCosmetics (Aug 13, 2021)

Susie said:


> The only thing a "versatile" soap needs to have to be used in either fresh or salt water is a very high Coconut Oil content.


Your argument against baby fish in the water makes no sense. A little bit of natural soap or soap containing salt wont harm the fish. For a start, there's already small amounts of salt in freshwater or lakes, aswell as other minerals. People, other animals, boats, and all-sorts of dirt go in that water. Joey mentioned the sweat from people washing in it, i mentioned animals excrement, and other natural pollutants that happens daily. 

It wouldn't be called sailor soap or soleseife soap if a normal soap with a high coconut oil content worked exactly the same, which makes the soap made with salt water more versatile than a standard bar. And since its different to a salt soap bar, it shouldn't be any harder for a beginner to make. Wither you use plain water, brine or beer, anyone can make it, although i do agree that a salt soap bar (adding salt to the batter) could be harder to make for a beginner. And even that is more versatile because it acts as an exfoliant.


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## Peachy Clean Soap (Sep 5, 2021)

Hoppy_Cosmetics said:


> Since you're out backpacking alot, there's a type of soap you could make called Soleseife Soap (aka. Sailor's Soap), and its one that you can use in seawater aswell as fresh water. Its made with salt water and is versatile, as it lathers really well in both types of water. The Nerdy Farm Wife has some online tutorials, and there's a decent youtube video about it here:



I sure do like her & videos


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## HoppyCosmetics (Sep 5, 2021)

Peachy Clean Soap said:


> I sure do like her & videos


Im not sure who that is on the video, but its not the nerdy farm wife. I think my original post under my old username "soaparonie" might have caused confusion! The nerdy farm wife's online blog is really good, and so are her books.


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## lenarenee (Sep 5, 2021)

Hoppy_Cosmetics said:


> Your argument against baby fish in the water makes no sense. A little bit of natural soap or soap containing salt wont harm the fish. For a start, there's already small amounts of salt in freshwater or lakes, aswell as other minerals. People, other animals, boats, and all-sorts of dirt go in that water. Joey mentioned the sweat from people washing in it, i mentioned animals excrement, and other natural pollutants that happens daily.
> 
> It wouldn't be called sailor soap or soleseife soap if a normal soap with a high coconut oil content worked exactly the same, which makes the soap made with salt water more versatile than a standard bar. And since its different to a salt soap bar, it shouldn't be any harder for a beginner to make. Wither you use plain water, brine or beer, anyone can make it, although i do agree that a salt soap bar (adding salt to the batter) could be harder to make for a beginner. And even that is more versatile because it acts as an exfoliant.



I'm wondering how to came to this conclusion; aka if you have education/training that can help us understand this better, please share. It would be very helpful for soap makers to know in the future.

But I'm concerned  you're coming from a standpoint of assumption; aka "Nah, I'm just one person washing in one stream this one day, so I'm not going to hurt anything."

*Water is a miracle. *Please people. Don't assume that because you're one person with one bar of soap/detergent, washing 2 plates and a cup, that you don't have an affect. These guidelines exist worldwide for a reason.  

Water is a polar molecule with a very special electrical charge, and that polarity is what makes water miraculous. It's why a drop of water on the counter mounds up (surface tension), it's why ice floats despite having the same density as water.  Soaps and detergents break that electrical bond, therefore changing how water behaves. It's why the tiniest vessels in your capillaries can still carry blood. (capillaries can be so small that only one red blood cell can travel through at a time!)

I've kept freshwater aquarium for 20 years. First rule of fish keeping is never let anything that was EVER been washed in soap near your fish. Why? Because it never completely washes off. You can take an old used aquarium out of the attic, scrub it out with soap and rinse 100 times with vinegar and water and still have residue that will affect the health of your fish's ecosystem. Might kill your fish in days. Might not. But it will degrade the protective slime coat on your fish t hat is an important part of it's immune system, and 3 months later you'll be back at the fish store. 

And salt, or soap on frog eggs, fish eggs? Tadpoles? Algae and water plants? Let's think about this:
I live near at the ocean where my local nursery has a list of veggies and plants that won't survive if your garden is with so many yards of the sea - because the salty moisture in the air will harm/kill them. People use salt water to kill weeds; plant their petunias in the same place and then wonder why they won't grow. Soap is used an insecticide.

Does one person washing 2 plates and a cup in a stream make a difference? Yes. Not the least of which is because that stream is part of a very long water system that with more streams, rivers, ponds, lakes, oceans.  There are other people hiking along that stream, washing their dishes, hands, or clothes. The soap you use can break the polarity of the water, and starve water life of oxygen.

For anyone interesting, a short article with basic explanation on water's polarity and why it makes life possible. Properties of Water & Water Polarity Science Lesson | HST

But I think this simple kid's experiment might help people visualize the power of polarity:


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## HoppyCosmetics (Sep 5, 2021)

lenarenee said:


> I'm wondering how to came to this conclusion; aka if you have education/training that can help us understand this better, please share. It would be very helpful for soap makers to know in the future.


That comment right there is patronising. Its pretty obvious that i dont have training in lakes. However, i kept a goldfish for 16 years in a standard fishbowl without a filter, and even changing its water completely can kill it. It needs to have part of the original water kept for its immune system.


lenarenee said:


> Water is a polar molecule with a very special electrical charge, and that polarity is what makes water miraculous. It's why a drop of water on the counter mounds up (surface tension), it's why ice floats despite having the same density as water. Soaps and detergents break that electrical bond, therefore changing how water behaves. It's why the tiniest vessels in your capillaries can still carry blood. (capillaries can be so small that only one red blood cell can travel through at a time!)


Im wondering what part of google you copied and pasted this from!
I didn't come on a soap forum to argue with people and be shut down for suggesting soleseife soap to someone who asked for something versatile. Ive already had Susie talk down to me as if she knows best. If lakes are so sacred and nothing can touch the waters surface, then lakes should be fenced off. Like i said, there's lots of things that go into that water daily, wither its natural or damaging, than someone using a true soap with natural oils on the odd occasion. Think about the maintenance of a boat, even that will affect the ph level of aquatic life. Everything will. Its common sense, that if you are hiking or even if you are homeless, you do what it takes to survive, and that includes hunting for food. Anyone who eats meat, eats fish or has ever stepped foot in a lake to swim, has no business complaining about fish in a lake, ph levels or anything related, which is double standards.

Im not as hardcore eco friendly as greta thunberg, but even she is being used as a pawn to promote climate change, and the fact she can't answer questions on her own without a script says it all. She's a hypocrite who's been caught using plastic bottles, while promoting that plastic is bad.


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## dibbles (Sep 5, 2021)

In the northern part of the state I live in (Minnesota, USA) there is a very special area - the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness (BWCAW). This environment is highly protected to keep it as pristine as possible and there are regulations when visiting. The waterways are largely paddle only, and there is a strict 'leave no trace' policy. Everything brought in is to be brought out. Here is a link if anyone is interested in reading what is expected of people who go there. For those who don't want to read, but are curious about the impact of soap on water (including biodegradable soap) this is the pertinent excerpt:



I am sharing this as a point of interest with no intent to start or join an argument, and no intended disrespect to anyone.


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## lenarenee (Sep 5, 2021)

Hoppy_Cosmetics said:


> That comment right there is patronising. Its pretty obvious that i dont have training in lakes. However, i kept a goldfish for 16 years in a standard fishbowl without a filter, and even changing its water completely can kill it. It needs to have part of the original water kept for its immune system.
> 
> Im wondering what part of google you copied and pasted this from!
> I didn't come on a soap forum to argue with people and be shut down for suggesting soleseife soap to someone who asked for something versatile. Ive already had Susie talk down to me as if she knows best. If lakes are so sacred and nothing can touch the waters surface, then lakes should be fenced off. Like i said, there's lots of things that go into that water daily, wither its natural or damaging, than someone using a true soap with natural oils on the odd occasion. Think about the maintenance of a boat, even that will affect the ph level of aquatic life. Everything will. Its common sense, that if you are hiking or even if you are homeless, you do what it takes to survive, and that includes hunting for food. Anyone who eats meat, eats fish or has ever stepped foot in a lake to swim, has no business complaining about fish in a lake, ph levels or anything related, which is double standards.
> ...



My comment was not patronizing. I'm sorry you thought it was, and don't see how I could have worded it better.  I was hoping you were a civil engineer or ecologist or something that could give us the details as to why you said what you said and teach us something. It's difficult to discern on a forum if people are talking from knowledge or not. You "sounded" so sure of yourself, I suspected you had training, so I asked. 

I didn't copy and paste my comment about the chemistry of water - that is my own hard earned knowledge from recent college science courses I've taken as I work on finishing my degree.  The chemistry of water molecules fascinates me, because this simple slight imbalance of electrical charge is what makes life possible. 

Perhaps your anger with Susie has clouded your judgment when reading my post.  I'll overlook your insult, and assume your temper just got the better of you and hope we can move on from here.

As for the rest of your statements about lakes, and homeless, and boats, and double standards, I can't comment. Countries all over the world go to great expense to inform hikers/campers and others how to make the least amount of impact on the environment as possible. They don't do it for their entertainment, they have good reason, and I hope that people listen.  

I also can't explain how your poor goldfish survived 16 years in an unfiltered, uncycled bowl unless you changed its water daily, or added Amquel or the like every day.  Goldfish are called "dirty" fish because they produce so much ammonia, which degrades into nitrite and nitrates, which can eat away at their gills and cause infections. The minimum recommended size for a single goldfish is 10 gallon/38 liter cycled tank, with a very powerful filter. The old water that is saved doesn't do anything for its immune system...it's too toxic.


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## HoppyCosmetics (Sep 5, 2021)

lenarenee said:


> Perhaps your anger with Susie has clouded your judgment when reading my post. I'll overlook your insult, and assume your temper just got the better of you and hope we can move on from here.





lenarenee said:


> I also can't explain how your poor goldfish survived 16 years in an unfiltered, uncycled bowl


Your first reply was not only patronising, but now these replies are narcissistic, because i didn't display any anger, temper, or insults to be overlooked, and nothing has clouded my judgement. It was an opinion. Also, my goldfish was also well looked after, so don't start with the "poor goldfish" routine just because you have an aquarium. If you actually knew anything about fish or took the time to research it, you'd know that they can survive in a bowl without a filter and can live a longer life than some in an aquarium with a filter. There's your insult!


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## lenarenee (Sep 5, 2021)

Ah. I see.


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## Hermit (Mar 16, 2022)

If you are adding sugar for bubbles you can disolve it into hot water and add it at anytime.
A tsp PPO (per pound of oil, or for 500g) is a good amount for that purpose.

If you want sugar for scrubbies I would use between 1 tsp and 1tbsp PPO. Start with the lower amount in small batches and add more until you are satisfied. Add them at the end so that they are less likely to completely dissolve in the batter. And keep in mind that adding sugar can heat up your batter, which could be bad for eo's, fo's, and volcanoes in the mold.

The other good additives for scrubbies I have seen are citrus rines and the poppy seeds above. (And by good, I mean that I haven't seen somebody contradicting the post saying, "they're too abrasive for me" which is really subjective 'cause everyone's skin is different.)


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## cmzaha (Mar 16, 2022)

Actually, sugar will work as an exfoliant if you do not dissolve the sugar and add it in as you would salt in a salt bar. I used to make a sugar bar that sold quite well for folks wanting the sting of salt in a salt bar. Sugar will not dissolve in oils or in the soap batter. You also do not have to up superfat or CO as you do with a salt bar because the sugar does not deter lather.


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## cmzaha (Mar 16, 2022)

Adding undissolved sugar does not dissolve in the batter and does not heat up the batter as dissolved sugar will. I use it the same as I would when making a salt bar. I happen to love sugar bars almost as much as salt bars.


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## ermina (Aug 26, 2022)

Zing said:


> I love this blend that I call Winter Blend.  Smells outdoorsy and forest-y.  Equal parts bergamot, eucalyptus, fir needle, peppermint, cedarwood, rosemary.


Sorry to pull up an old post, but just tried this blend & it’s lovely
Thanks for posting


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