# When to label for minimum shrinkage?



## Carl (Apr 10, 2019)

Soaps that I've labeled (cigar band style) several weeks ago have shrunk a lot.  These soaps were about 5 weeks old when I labeled them.  The labels are now falling off.

What is the optimal age of a bar to label it due to shrinking?  Label too early and your soap will shrink.  Label too late and what if someone wants about 100 bars and you're sitting there with no time to label 100 bars (in this case it would be nice to have them pre-labeled)


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## Lin19687 (Apr 11, 2019)

You need to know WHEN your soap stops shrinking.  Depends on your recipe.
Have you been making soaps long ?
5 weeks seems early to me for wrapping


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## DeeAnna (Apr 11, 2019)

You're going to be waiting a loooong time if you want to package your soap when it's not shrinking anymore. I package at 4-8 weeks and accept that I need to touch up the shrink wrap as needed. Even older soap -- 6 months to a year old -- will show slight shrinkage as the months go by. It's a weakness that cigar bands loosen up. You're going to have to deal with tightening up the bands from time to time if you want them snug, or you need to choose a different type of packaging that is more tolerant of shrinkage.


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## Lin19687 (Apr 11, 2019)

@DeeAnna got me, yes I didn't mean totally stopped.  All soap will still be shrinking, even tiny bits, for a very long time.
If you are using Full water then it will take longer to get to that point.
Usually I wouldn't wrap till about to sell.  after 6 weeks+

Edit to say that is seems you are new.
Not sure why you would be labeling and having someone wanting 100 bars .......


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## Carl (Apr 11, 2019)

Lin19687 said:


> @DeeAnna got me, yes I didn't mean totally stopped.  All soap will still be shrinking, even tiny bits, for a very long time.
> If you are using Full water then it will take longer to get to that point.
> Usually I wouldn't wrap till about to sell.  after 6 weeks+
> 
> ...



Planning for the future.  No one wants 100 bars right now.  I'm all about having a good process in place.  Why not start with good processing from step 1?


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## dibbles (Apr 11, 2019)

@Carl nothing wrong with wanting to have good practices in place. But unless you have wholesale customers that are selling your soap on a large scale, an order for 100 bars isn't very likely. If you are set on using cigar band packaging, you could have the bands printed, cut and ready to wrap your soaps with, then keep them with the soaps wherever you are storing them long term. Just wrapping them when you are ready to sell wouldn't take too long. Or as Lin said, go with different packaging/wrapping.


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## Carl (Apr 11, 2019)

OK, 100 bars was an exaggeration on my part!

Let's take this real world example instead:  It's 3:45 in the afternoon.  We have a 4:00 dinner reservation (I know, we eat early).  The restaurant is 20 minutes away.  Friends call quick and say "Could you bring along 5 bars of soap?  By the way, we want them labeled since we may give them away as gifts."

Wouldn't it be nice if they were pre-wrapped?


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## penelopejane (Apr 11, 2019)

Carl said:


> OK, 100 bars was an exaggeration on my part!
> 
> Let's take this real world example instead:  It's 3:45 in the afternoon.  We have a 4:00 dinner reservation (I know, we eat early).  The restaurant is 20 minutes away.  Friends call quick and say "Could you bring along 5 bars of soap?  By the way, we want them labeled since we may give them away as gifts."
> 
> Wouldn't it be nice if they were pre-wrapped?


I don’t give away my soap until it is 12 weeks old. Most of the shrinkage has happened by then. But I don’t pre-wrap my soap because I want to know it’s perfect before it goes out - no DOS, no dents, still smells good. 

In the above scenario I’d say sorry, I’ll bring them next time I see you as I don’t have any ready to go.


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## dixiedragon (Apr 11, 2019)

In the scenario you describe, I'd wrap the soap. I like deli sheets, myself. Make a label on your computer and stick it on the paper. The wrap keeps the soap clean and dust and hair free, and it doesn't matter if the soap shrinks a bit. I'm not wild about cigar band wrapping myself because (like you said) it needs to be snug or it will slip off, and it doesn't offer much protection to the soap. 

For a while I was actually wrapping my soaps in pages from books I got out of the free bin at a used book store. It's tough to find a books with pages that are fairly sturdy but don't tear when you fold them, plus are appealing. For example, I don't want to use old DOS manuals. 

You could also use a glassine envelope, available at restaurant supply places, or a tiny brown paper lunch sack.


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## Andrew (Apr 11, 2019)

I soap at both a substantial water discount and use sodium lactate to minimize shrinkage.  This also really speeds up curing and turnover time.


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## Carl (Apr 11, 2019)

Andrew said:


> I soap at both a substantial water discount and use sodium lactate to minimize shrinkage.  This also really speeds up curing and turnover time.



That is interesting!  I may give that a try.


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## dibbles (Apr 11, 2019)

Carl said:


> OK, 100 bars was an exaggeration on my part!
> 
> Let's take this real world example instead:  It's 3:45 in the afternoon.  We have a 4:00 dinner reservation (I know, we eat early).  The restaurant is 20 minutes away.  Friends call quick and say "Could you bring along 5 bars of soap?  By the way, we want them labeled since we may give them away as gifts."
> 
> Wouldn't it be nice if they were pre-wrapped?


Well, ok, did know you were exaggerating. In your scenario, you will already be 5 minutes late, so if your labels are already printed be 10 minutes late and slap some cigar bands on them. How long can it take? Or say no.


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## Carl (Apr 11, 2019)

dibbles said:


> Well, ok, did know you were exaggerating. In your scenario, you will already be 5 minutes late, so if your labels are already printed be 10 minutes late and slap some cigar bands on them. How long can it take? Or say no.



LOL funny here!  I guess my wacky self likes to see things finished.  I can't consider it finished in my brain until it's labeled.  But yes, I guess optimal would be to label them when you need them.


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## Lin19687 (Apr 12, 2019)

WHEN you are really ready to sell you will know when your soap stops shrinking - to where it won't need a label redo.
These are things you learn with experience.
No one here will be able to tell you when that will be.  It will all depend on if you know what you are doing, recipe, age etc.
I know when my labels will slide off, come lose or just not ready to label
also, if you are giving this away, then just leave it unlabeled.
If you are taking any money, you better be more experienced before you do that


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## DeeAnna (Apr 12, 2019)

Lin19687 said:


> WHEN you are really ready to sell you will know when your soap stops shrinking - to where it won't need a label redo. These are things you learn with experience. No one here will be able to tell you when that will be.  It will all depend on if you know what you are doing, recipe, age etc. I know when my labels will slide off, come lose or just not ready to label. also, if you are giving this away, then just leave it unlabeled. If you are taking any money, you better be more experienced before you do that



I'm not quite sure why you're being so hard on Carl, @Lin19687. As has already been discussed in this thread, a person will be waiting a looong time to get to the point "_when your soap stops shrinking -- to where it won't need a label redo_" so I'm not quite sure why you're saying this yet again. Also, he hasn't said he's selling -- he was giving a hypothetical example.

As far as giving away naked bars -- My opinion is quite different. I take pride in my soap and what's in it. I also like giving pretty gifts. I label and shrink wrap EVERY bar of soap, whether it's sold or given away, whether it's a sample or a full size bar. My friends and family deserve every bit as much consideration as a paying customer to know what's in the soap and to have a bar that's nice and clean and with as strong a scent as possible.


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## Carl (Apr 15, 2019)

Funny, thanks for the info.  I've only been recently distributing to family/friends.  My wife and I both have full time day jobs so we can never become full time sellers.  But we are thinking of doing some selling once the holiday shopping season gets started (end of year).    There is soooooo much involved with selling this stuff.

Even little things like the labels take a long time (to develop the label, photography, etc.).  I think it would be nice to have a system in place where you prepare the bars for sale (either craft show sale or mail order) and then you are done!  Just grab them off the shelf.  

So far shrink wrapping has it's downsides since you have to hit them up with the heat gun again at a later date
and cigar bands seem to have similar issues due to the shrinking.

The best thing I can find so far is boxing them.  Put them in the box, label them, and you're done.

But then again, Deanna is right   Haven't said I was selling.  I was giving bars to my family with "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Easter" (next week) labels on them, so I do think there is some value in labeling even bars you are giving away.


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## DeeAnna (Apr 15, 2019)

Tried both ways and I can tell you for certain there's a big difference between tightening shrink wrap and tightening a cigar band in the amount of effort and time involved. Furthermore, if the wrap gets a bit loose, it's still going to stay on the soap to protect it and the label. Cigar bands fall off.


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## earlene (Apr 15, 2019)

Carl said:


> I do think there is some value in labeling even bars you are giving away.



Absolutely!  I don't sell and don't intend to sell.  But I do label and do like to label according the FDA's labeling guidelines/regulations, but as completely as possible.  Some reasons I label my soaps include: possible allergies, possible contraindications (i.e.; pregnant women should not be exposed to xyz; stuff like that); just because it's nice to let people know what is in what they are using, and also because I like to know what is in a particular soap (this has happened many times for various reasons).


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## Carl (Apr 15, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> Tried both ways and I can tell you for certain there's a big difference between tightening shrink wrap and tightening a cigar band in the amount of effort and time involved. Furthermore, if the wrap gets a bit loose, it's still going to stay on the soap to protect it and the label. Cigar bands fall off.



Yes, I think it was your article that I read about shrinking and labeling the 3 sides.

Great article!


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## Carl (Apr 15, 2019)

But I still think I like the look of the "Cigar Band" style the best.  Just my opinion, though.

The initial intent of my post was to find that time when about 99% of the shrinkage has occurred. (Like a general guideline).  Then if it shrinks 1% more, no big deal.


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## earlene (Apr 15, 2019)

Perhaps this will help, *Carl*:

https://www.mariegale.com/calculating-net-weight-soap-part-1/
https://www.mariegale.com/calculating-net-weight-soap-part-2/


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## Carl (Apr 15, 2019)

earlene said:


> Perhaps this will help, *Carl*:
> 
> https://www.mariegale.com/calculating-net-weight-soap-part-1/
> https://www.mariegale.com/calculating-net-weight-soap-part-2/



Nice read!

I'm not sure if her example numbers are actual/real or if they are something she made up for the creation of a blog post.  But if true numbers, her biggest weight loss (as a percentage of starting weight for that time period) was between 60 and 90 days.  But then again, since the weight is decreasing which skews the percentages a bit.


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## earlene (Apr 15, 2019)

That is pretty much how it works in my experience.  The greatest weight loss in the beginning and the decreasing weight loss as time goes by.   

However, if you want to know the lowest possible weight of your soap, in case you may hold onto it for an extended period of time, then the *lowest possible weight* method in Part Two would be the better option.  You wouldn't have to weight it periodically unless you want to follow the weight loss patterns and your net weight is most likely going to be the least it would weigh if the soap lost all the water weight.


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## DeeAnna (Apr 16, 2019)

The biggest weight loss is in the first 30-40 days. My tests show this, and Marie's data shows this trend as well.

You're misinterpreting Marie's table -- the percentages in her table are cumulative amounts since Day 0. The weight loss is 8% in the first time period. The soap loses another 2% (for 10% total) in the second time period, another 2.5% in the third for a total of 12.5%, and so on.


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## dixiedragon (Apr 16, 2019)

Carl said:


> LOL funny here!  I guess my wacky self likes to see things finished.  I can't consider it finished in my brain until it's labeled.  But yes, I guess optimal would be to label them when you need them.


I don't think it would be optimal to label them when you need them.  You never know when somebody will  need some soap, and you aren't always able to take time to wrap and label. It would be nice to have a bunch of wrapped soaps ready to go!

You could also get some boxes like this. 
http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/store-search.aspx?FBK=soap+box

For me personally that's too much $ in packaging, but it looks nice, and is easy.


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## Carl (Apr 16, 2019)

DeeAnna said:


> The biggest weight loss is in the first 30-40 days. My tests show this, and Marie's data shows this trend as well.
> 
> You're misinterpreting Marie's table -- the percentages in her table are cumulative amounts since Day 0. The weight loss is 8% in the first time period. The soap loses another 2% (for 10% total) in the second time period, another 2.5% in the third for a total of 12.5%, and so on.



Thanks, I didn't realize it was a cumulative number!

That would have been a pretty large weight loss if it was.


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## DeeAnna (Apr 16, 2019)

Yes, it would be an unusually large loss if the numbers are per month. As cumulative percentages, the numbers are reasonable. 

You can see a similar pattern here -- https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/cure-time.35831/


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