# Shampoo Bar - Thanks Lindy!!



## Genny

I've never been a fan of CP shampoo bars because immediately they'd leave my hair all dried out & straw-like.  So I only used Syndet bars and never looked back.
But a post Lindy made here https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/how-is-this-for-a-basic-shampoo-bar-recipe.30757/  helped me see the error of my ways.

So, I just want to thank Lindy for giving me that "duh" moment so I could create a shampoo bar that I've only used once, but I love it already.  I imagine that after some cure time, it's going to feel so much more lovely.
I used it this morning and there was absolutely no "stripping" feel to it & it felt so conditioning that I used it on the rest of my body as well   My brush went right through my hair and now it feels so silky & smooth.

I'm feeling so good about it, I'm going to share the recipe I created:
Water as percent of oil weight: 35%
Superfat: 6%

Avocado Oil: 30%
Castor Oil: 10%
Olive Oil: 40%
Shea Butter: 10%
Soybean Oil: 10%

I infused chamomile in all my oils, not in the shea though.  Plus I use a TBSP of sugar in my water for added bubbles. 

For scent, I used Tea Tree EO, Peppermint EO & Lavender EO at a 1:1:1 ratio.

If anyone decides to try it, please let me know how you feel about it.


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## maiseycat

That looks very interesting. I love the high conditioning factor. 

You will have to let us know how the bar does after cure! I have been thinking of trying my hand at a shampoo bar, and have some nettles infusing into olive oil for that purpose at the moment.


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## Hausfrau007

I've been waiting for an enthusiastically endorsed recipe. Thanks for that!!


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## thefarmerdaughter

where do you buy your Avocado oil, and how's the price? I've been looking for an alternative to shampoo....


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## Gryfonmoon

I'll have to give this a shot! I'll let you know.


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## Genny

thefarmerdaughter said:


> where do you buy your Avocado oil, and how's the price? I've been looking for an alternative to shampoo....



I get mine at soapers choice.  It's $18.35 for 7 lbs.
http://www.soaperschoice.com/cgi-so...eb_store.cgi?query_price_low_range=0&cart_id=


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## Lindy

Genny I am so thrilled that you tried it again and like it!  It's one of those "ah hah' moments isn't it.  Especially once you've used it for awhile.  I sold out of all my shampoo bars a week and a half or so before Christmas and Save-On Foods has sold out of the beer shampoo bars already too.

Congrats on your new recipe!


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## Hazel

Genny - 

It's so nice of you to share this recipe! I've never been interested in making a shampoo bar because I have fine, thin hair. However, I might try a really small batch and see if my niece would be interested in trying it. She's one of the lucky family members who has thick hair.


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## Genny

Thanks you guys, I hope everyone who tries it likes it.

Wow, Lindy, glad to hear you sold out 

Hazel ~ I have really super-fine, thin hair as well.  My kids all have super thick hair though.  Once the shampoo bar cures I'm going to let my oldest daughter use it to see how she likes it.


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## Hazel

Then I'll have to try it myself. Thanks again for sharing!


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## CaliChan

SO MANY BUBBLES! super cool


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## Ruthie

Genny, this sounds great.  I've been wishing for a good shampoo bar and can hardly wait to try this.  TFS!!


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## Hausfrau007

Dammit all, I don't have soy bean oil! What's a good substitute?


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## Kansas Farm Girl

Does this one still require the apple cider vinegar rinse? I don't mind using it but DH isn't fond of the smell.
Thanks, Noela


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## chicklet

I've been using a shampoo bar for about 6 weeks and I love it as do my testers (friends!). I'm definitely going to try Genny's and then compare - always lookin for ways to improve recipes. I'll post mine in case anybody else wants to try it as well. I have fine hair - I wash it every other day. If I go a third day it's oily at the scalp. I do color my hair with a wash-out color but since I've been using a shampoo bar I haven't needed to color - that's been the most amazing part to me. I have a lot less hair in the comb now too. I do use a leave-in vinegar rinse that's 3 parts water, 1 part vinegar. At first I used it every time but now I use it once a week or so. 

Avocado oil 24.5%
Castor oil 24.5%
Coconut oil 24.5%
Olive oil 24.5%
Jojoba oil 2.1%


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## Lindy

I don't do a vinegar rinse and I don't find I need to....


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## Genny

I haven't done a vinegar rinse when using this soap & it's been going great.

Hausfrau ~ If you don't have soybean oil, you can just leave it out & up the other oils.  I'm thinking for my next batch, I might leave out the soybean & increase the castor.


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## Gryfonmoon

Could I sub out the avocado oil with rice bran oil? Do you think that would turn out okay?


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## sabon

Congratulations on your successful shampoo bar!

So did you HP the batch? and is it a hard bar( I know it has to cure but still curious:smile)


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## adoptapitbull

Do you need a vinegar rinse after using the shampoo bar?

I've read a lot of the recipes call for one. I would definitely not want to do that to my hair. The smell...yuck!

Is it the avocado that makes it better for hair as opposed to other soaping oils?


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## Genny

Gryfonmoon said:


> Could I sub out the avocado oil with rice bran oil? Do you think that would turn out okay?



Honestly, I have no idea. I recently wrote a post about subbing out my olive oil for rbo in another recipe & it was very, very drying to my skin. So personally, I wouldn't do it.



sabon said:


> Congratulations on your successful shampoo bar!
> 
> So did you HP the batch? and is it a hard bar( I know it has to cure but still curious:smile)



I CP'ed it. It is surprisingly harder than I thought it was going to be considering the high OO content. But it's not as hard as a soap that has po or co in it.



adoptapitbull said:


> Do you need a vinegar rinse after using the shampoo bar?
> 
> I've read a lot of the recipes call for one. I would definitely not want to do that to my hair. The smell...yuck!
> 
> Is it the avocado that makes it better for hair as opposed to other soaping oils?



I've been using this every day for a week or so & I haven't had to use a vinegar rinse at all. But I also think that the vinegar rinse thing has something to do with the hardness of your water, which we do not have hard water at all.

It's not just the avocado, it's the combination of using high conditioning oils & no cleansing oils. 
If you want to sub out oils in the recipe you could use this chart
http://thesoapdish.com/oil-properties-chart.htm
and find oils that are high conditioning instead of cleansing.


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## deirdreanne

I like to try all my soaps as shampoo bars, just in case I stumble across something that works well with my hair. About 6 weeks ago, I started using a Castile soap that I made (100% olive oil with honey added). It had cured for about two and a half months. I wasn't expecting much, but it was fabulous. My hair is glossy, soft and I have no split ends. I was kind of stunned, as I'd always assumed that a good shampoo bar would have to be cleansing to work well. It's become my regular shampoo bar, and I use a more cleansing bar only once every two weeks or so (and I'm not even sure if that's necessary, as I haven't noticed any buildup).


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## dudeitsashley

adoptapitbull said:


> Do you need a vinegar rinse after using the shampoo bar?
> 
> I've read a lot of the recipes call for one. I would definitely not want to do that to my hair. The smell...yuck!
> 
> Is it the avocado that makes it better for hair as opposed to other soaping oils?



The vinegar rinse is to close the cuticle back down, because generally the CP soap is on the alkaline side of the ph scale where the vinegar is on the acidic side. So the alkaline side softens and swells the cuticle where the acidic side hardens and closes the cuticle. I hope that answers your question. 

_Boy those two years of cosmetology school really payed off_


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## Genny

So it's been about 3 weeks since I've started using this and I am still enjoying it.  

My scalp before using this was a dry and flaky around the hair line and I was always having to put lotion on it.  That's all gone now  
There's still no straw-like crunchy dry feeling that I've gotten from using regular CP soap recipes as shampoo.  My hair is thicker looking and after washing when I let my hair dry, I can run a brush right through it without any problems.

I will be having a few other people testing it once it's reached 4 weeks.  I've chosen a woman with long, thick hair who has problems with oiliness.  An older woman with short thick dyed hair.  A man with thinning short hair and problems with dry scalp.  A man with thick hair and problems with oiliness.


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## dianne70

Thanks Genny for sharing that recipe....I have very fine hair...and since having my babies, it has gotten finer and sometimes its kind of weird, and I can't do anything with it......yet another thing on my to try list


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## melstan775

How about finding a tester with fine hair and/or problems with oiliness as well?  It absolutely is possible to add volume and thickness with the right shampoo formulation. Since you note your hair feels thicker after using it, why not get another test subject and see if it holds true? Just a thought.


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## lizflowers42

melstan775 said:


> How about finding a tester with fine hair and/or problems with oiliness as well?  It absolutely is possible to add volume and thickness with the right shampoo formulation. Since you note your hair feels thicker after using it, why not get another test subject and see if it holds true? Just a thought.



I volunteer! Fine hair here! Oily scalp too!


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## Lindy

Genny I can't even begin to say how thrilled I am for you!  Go you!


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## Tralaaje

I made this recipe once I saw it. We have been using shampoo bars for over a year now. I have 5 other shampoo recipes I have used in the past but none was "just right."  This recipe is awesome  and the best by far.

I followed it to the tee for one batch and subbed out the soybean for more castor in a second batch (most of my bars have 20% castor so its what I am used to). 

Gave both bars to my daughter, son, mil, fil, and husband to test.  They have all used my other 5 recipes in the past. My daughter and son have baby fine hair with oily scalp and both love the original, think its the best. My daughter told me her hair is the nicest its ever been (it was so soft to touch it was amazing). My mil who has baby fine hair color treated loves the original one too best. My fil who has thick dry hair liked the original one for conditioning but the bubbles of the second one. He liked both. My husband like the increased castor one, he has baby fine hair but not much of it (so glad he doesn't read this forum) so I don't think he counts :wink: I have alot of normal hair. I liked the increased castor one since my hair felt a little over moisturized with the original. But, the increased castor takes a little more effort to rinse out. 

Thanks for posting this awesome recipe , we all definately have a new favorite shampoo bar


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## kdaniels8811

I just made this, in the kitchen in the mold right now.  I have several friends eager to try it, how long should it cure?  Can I use it after 4 weeks or should I wait longer?  Excited to try it!


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## Genny

I would suggest 4 weeks.


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## hoegarden

That sounds interesting. Would the soap be suitable in summer? 

Not sure of the weather that most of you are residing now. I live in Asia, thus, all year round, its only rain and sun. The weather is so humid that the scalp will be sweating under the sun almost immediately. Thus, I cannot imagine a formula without CO inside as cleansing is almost very important inview of the impurities that are trap in the hair everyday.

Thanks Genny. You have shown me a new horizon.


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## dudeitsashley

Just curious can I add clay into my shampoo bars or would that not be good for use on the hair? Seems like a silly question haha. If I were to add a clay it'd be either kaolin or bentonite at one tsp ppo.


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## Lindy

Hmmm - not something I've tried, my first reaction was no, however since I've not tried it, I don't know what it would be like....


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## Crocoturtle

adoptapitbull said:


> Do you need a vinegar rinse after using the shampoo bar?
> 
> I've read a lot of the recipes call for one. I would definitely not want to do that to my hair. The smell...yuck!
> 
> Is it the avocado that makes it better for hair as opposed to other soaping oils?


If you do a vinegar rinse it does not leave any smell in your hair but that being said, if you want to lower the PH of the bar you can add 1T ppo of citric acid, it will keep the cuticle of the hair smoothed.



dudeitsashley said:


> Just curious can I add clay into my shampoo bars or would that not be good for use on the hair? Seems like a silly question haha. If I were to add a clay it'd be either kaolin or bentonite at one tsp ppo.


clay is good for curly hair. I wouldn't put a lot at first.


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## Lindy

Crocoturtle said:


> If you do a vinegar rinse it does not leave any smell in your hair but that being said, if you want to lower the PH of the bar you can add 1T ppo of citric acid, it will keep the cuticle of the hair smoothed.



Broken record here but you don't necessarily need a vinegar rinse for a CP shampoo bar if you have formulated your bar right.....


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## lizflowers42

Crocoturtle said:


> clay is good for curly hair. I wouldn't put a lot at first.



Suggested amount 1 tsp per pound? This girls got curls!


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## Crocoturtle

lizflowers42 said:


> Suggested amount 1 tsp per pound? This girls got curls!


That sounds like a good amount to start with. I'd just do a 1 pound batch and see how you like it.


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## ThenCameJen

For those that have tried this recipe, did it take an especially long time to firm up enough to cut?  I think I may have whoopsied on this one - I'm pretty sure my measurements were right, so maybe I soaped too cool?  I used a PVC pipe mold, which I figured would mean an extra day or two in the mold before I could cut, especially given the large percentage of soft oils.

I'm pretty sure this gelled, because about 4 or 6 hours after pouring, the soap visible from the top of the mold had gone from a little milky to clearish green (I used chromium green oxide), similar to the other batches I've done, and the outsides of the PVC were uniformly warm from top to bottom.

After about 80 hrs in the mold, it was still really soft on either end, so I figured at this point, I couldn't hurt much by trying to gently remove it.  It came out pretty well - not cleanly, but I didn't have to scoop it out!   I left it to sit on a piece of freezer paper, where it's only managed to firm up a little bit - to the consistency of soft modeling clay.  I'm now at about 95 hours outside of the mold, give or take - just over 7 days total since pouring it into the mold.

Anyway, I'm an impatient and inquisitive child of the world, so I decided to cut into it to see what strange horrors might await me inside.  It's soft enough to leave messy fingerprints on the surface with just a light touch.  No zap, and the pH strips I bought show it's about 9 or 10, slightly higher than my tap water alone.  However, I also have some clear/yellowish dots, blobs, and streaks that remind me of shea butter.

I soaped at about 100° to 105°.  This was a 2lb batch (880g actually), so I used my last 10g of peppermint EO and topped it off with half an ounce of green clover & aloe.  The only sub I made to the original recipe was to replace soybean oil (which is hard to find in my area) with an equal percent of Crisco (recalculating in SoapCalc, of course.)  I did everything else exactly as written (36% water, 6%SF, 1T sugar.)

Any guesses where I might've gone wrong, and what a possible solution (if any) might be?  I've done a little more reading since to try to figure this out, and I  read that sometimes soaping at cooler temperatures with shea butter  might cause the butter to resolidify.  Could that be what happened?  This is my first time using shea butter.


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## Genny

ThenCameJen ~ I'm the one who posted the original recipe and I was able to unmold it within 24 hours.  It was harder than my usual soap recipe.

I soap room temp and there's been a couple times that the shea butter's resolidified on me and our house in the winter is about 60 degrees.  They ended up being small white spots (because I use refined shea).

I don't use Crisco, but if I remember correctly, it has palm in it.  I don't use palm either, but I know that palm can cause stearic spots when not stirred properly or when it starts to resolidify (which are usually clearish).

The spots won't hurt the soap though.  So honestly, I'd just leave it and maybe give it another week to see if it hardens. If it doesn't then maybe I'd rebatch it.

P.S.  Most "Vegetable Oils" in grocery stores are actually Soybean Oil.


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## ThenCameJen

Thanks for the reply, Genny!  And yes, the reason I went with the Crisco was because of the soybean with a little palm oil.  I figured it would be pretty similar, quality-wise (and SoapCalc's numbers confirmed that lol.)

I used unrefined shea which I filtered myself, because it was a cheap add-on when I bought the avocado oil on Amazon.  I will definitely be going with the refined from now on.  But that's why the yellow reminded me of shea. 

I'll take your suggestion and set it off to the side for another week to see what happens.  I loved the look of the recipe, and everyone was raving about it, so I figured it would be a good one to try.  I'm determined to get this one right!


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## Kansas Farm Girl

I made this almost 2 weeks ago (still waiting to try it). I used individual silicon muffin molds and put it in the toaster oven to force it to gel. Anyway.... it is still a little soft, I would be able to make a dint if I tried and would not have to try too hard. I really really want to try this, but wince I've been fighting damaged hair thought I should let it cure out longer.


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## ZandarKoad

This recipe is next in my sights.  I'm planning on adding that citrus EO, since that's my wife's next suggested scent and some say it will help keep the PH down.  I'll also be turning it orange, so I'll get some yellow and red oxides for that, unless I can find a reasonably priced natural option.

I'll special order all the oils so I use the exact same recipe as originally posted.  Once it's cured, I'll be turning it into a liquid soap form to be used as a shampoo...  I wish I knew of a way to do that without heating the soap, but that's another topic.


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## dudeitsashley

Thank you Genny for the recipe!  I just hot processed this recipe today and I made slight changes. I didn't have soybean oil on hand so I used rice bran oil and yes I did run it through Soapcalc. I used 95% beer and 5% goats milk as my lye solution and I also added one teaspoon of powdered oats to my oils, as well as 3% sodium lactate of my oil weight. I'll most likely have an update of first use sometime next week.


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## jayjay23

could I hot process this recipe?? please reply  I really want to try this ASAP


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## Ruthie

jayjay23 said:


> could I hot process this recipe?? please reply  I really want to try this ASAP


 
Yes, you can HP this recipe.


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## jayjay23

thank you so much )) but can please someone clear something out for me? how can it be cleansing when it's cleansing level is zero? I checkes it out on SoapCal please help me understand . thanks


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## Ruthie

Cleansing just means the soap will attract oils. It is not whether the soap will get you clean. 
 Read about it here: http://www.soapcalc.net/info/SoapQualities.asp


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## jayjay23

again, thanks so much!
I didn't know some of that stuff, I'll give it a better look just as write this.
So the superfatting at 6% and water 35% doesn't matter either? I mean, it clearly doesn't as everyone is very happy with this recipe, but like I said, I'm new at this and I'm so eager to learn.

how many grams of NaOH and water are included in the recipe?
I tried to see when I ran the measurements through SoapCal but I can't seem to see it..


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## lizflowers42

jayjay23 said:


> again, thanks so much!
> I didn't know some of that stuff, I'll give it a better look just as write this.
> So the superfatting at 6% and water 35% doesn't matter either? I mean, it clearly doesn't as everyone is very happy with this recipe, but like I said, I'm new at this and I'm so eager to learn.
> 
> how many grams of NaOH and water are included in the recipe?
> I tried to see when I ran the measurements through SoapCal but I can't seem to see it..



Jayjay23, once you put everything into the recipe and press calculate, there is a button below marked #2, which takes you to your recipe and shows the amounts of liquid/lye.  Don't worry, I didn't know either!


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## lizflowers42

Ok, I used Genny's original recipe this morning, but put my spin on it because I can't leave something good enough alone!  My substitutions: instead of water, I used some of my frozen beer and banana puree slushy.  Also added citric acid and clay as mentioned to help reduce the need to vinegar rinse and for curls, and added in clove EO, ground clove and nutmeg at trace (both are supposed to be good for brunettes!) 

I made a pound, which is going to be a lot of soap...so if it doesn't work out as a shampoo bar, it smells nice-think with the added citric acid it's okay for a body bar?


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## Second Impression

I made a similar recipe (40% OO, 30% Avocado, 20% Soybean, 10% Shea, 4-3-2-1, get it? lol) and have been using it for a week now. Kind of torn on it. Way better than my experience with other shampoo and CP bars but still finally had to rinse with ACV today. My build up level was tolerable, just hanging on that edge of looking 2 days dirty but then I got my hair trimmed and the stylist put 2 huge handfuls of product in and I may have been a bit embarassed when she commented on the "waxy" texture of my hair :-(. I've also never successfully lo-pooed or no-pooed before and with my own deviation from the posted recipe and crazy breastfeeding hormones, I'm just going to keep with it and see how it goes. I have wavy thick hair and an average scalp, but so far my hair is super soft and the waves are really coming out. Not sure what's going on with my hair feeling clean and healthy but looking oily, have some trouble shooting to do there!

I just made up a new batch following Genny's original recipe, but subbed mango butter in for the soybean oil. Now if I could just borrow it from the future...:smile:


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## jayjay23

I was wondering one more thing...since I'm doing this recipe the HP way I was wondering if I melt all the oils together or do I add tge shea butter at trace?


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## lizflowers42

jayjay23 said:


> I was wondering one more thing...since I'm doing this recipe the HP way I was wondering if I melt all the oils together or do I add tge shea butter at trace?



I would just add it to the oil. Some people say adding your expensive oil at the end will keep that oil from fully going through soaponification and end up being your superfat....but some say that lye doesn't discriminate.


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## Nevada

Considering that a hard oil is easier to saponify than a soft oil. It makes sense to me that adding a soft oil at trace would be less prone to saponification, because much of the lye is already used up. If a 5% Superfat recipe is calculated and measured correctly, then the (soft) oil that that is added last would be at least 5% SF. 

Of course, YMMV 



lizflowers42 said:


> I would just add it to the oil. Some people say adding your expensive oil at the end will keep that oil from fully going through soaponification and end up being your superfat....but some say that lye doesn't discriminate.


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## chicklet

I think it's worth a try in HP. I think it's just wishful thinking in CP.


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## jayjay23

I don't know what YMMV means, I'm from Croatia.. Lol
So you're all saying to put the shea butter together with all the othera oils to sappnifie together


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## lizflowers42

Your mileage may vary=ymmv...basically results will vary.


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## jayjay23

Oh ok. I'll put the shea butter in with the oils to melt and saponifie together then.


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## Hazel

With HP, you can melt the shea butter and add it after the batch is cooked because the lye will have already reacted with the oils and the batch will be fully saponified. This way the shea butter will be the free oil/superfat in the batch. You just have to make sure you mix it in very well to make sure it's evenly dispersed in the soap.


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## jayjay23

I just hope I can find soybean oil...if not, maybe I could add coconut oil..but then again, a lot of them told me it's too stripping for the hair..


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## Second Impression

You should be able to find soybean oil in any grocery store. It will be with the baking supplies and is called vegetable oil. Just  check the ingredient label to make sure it's not mixed with another oil


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## jayjay23

Yay, thanks a lot! that's the one I found


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## nella_la

I also wanna do this recipe the HP way, and also was wondering if I could use 10% of coconut oil instead of soybean? Just becouse I think that the bar would be a bit too moisturizing...
here are the bar qualities with coconut instead of soybean...my hair get greasy after about 2-3 days so that's why? what you guys think? 

hardness: 27
clenasing:9
conditionig:69
bubbly:18
creamy:27
iodine:74
ins:125


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## Genny

You can replace the soybean with coconut.  
I need the higher conditioning properties, that's why I don't use coconut in it.  Coconut gave me a dry crunchy feeling to my hair.


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## Lindy

If you are going to make it with coconut oil make sure you make a small batch so you can test it first...  I do know of some people whose hair does like CO but sure not very many....


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## sweetcindylou

Do you think you can Hot Process this recipe?  Also, I have oily, curly and on humid days prizzy hair.  Do you recommend any oils to use specifically for my hair type?  I rarely have to use regular conditioner with store bought shampoo.


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## jayjay23

I just hot processed this exact recipe this morning and I'm eager to try it tomorrow. This one HAS to be good for my hair it just has to! I used the exact same oils and measurent...only I superfatted at 5%...if this one does't come out right...I give up.

I washed my hair with Genny's recipe..I have to say that my hair looks cleaner than with the other batches I made. It feels kind of weird -dryish but maybe that's becouse I didn't use any conditioner afterwards nor did I use ACV rinse.. so I'll make sure to do that next time...but for now..I'm pretty happy with it...thank you Genny!

Oh btw - the lather was pretty low, so I was wondering how to enhance that? I know i could add more castor oil, but I'm afraid I'll mess up the recipe and be unhappy again :/


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## Genny

Hmm...the lather on mine's pretty good, as good as regular shampoo obviously, but it's still pretty good.  I lather the soap up in my hands a little bit & then massage it into my hair.  

I hope this one works for you with all failed batches you've been making.


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## jayjay23

Thanks Genny, I hope so,too. Like I said, my hair looks pretty good, but feels weird, so next time I'll definently do ACV rinse and see what happens.
I also lathered up in my hands and yeah, the lather was obviosly there, but not as much as I expected, I even added 1 teaspoons os sugar in the water for lye.
But I'm way too freaked out to try and increase the amount of castor oil.


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## jayjay23

people I have another problem...
I washed my hair again yesterday, but I did ACV rinse (5 tbl spoon acv, rest was water) left to sit a minute, rinsed out...and my hair is greasy...I used too much didn't I ?

but here is my real problem...I noticed that when I washed my hair yesterday (and the day before) with the bar, that when I rinse, the water comes out white...like when I dye my hair black, and wash it, the water is black, with the bar it's white....what is that? WHY is that? again, I messed something up..


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## Genny

ACV wouldn't make your hair greasy, so I'm not sure what's going on there.

Also not sure what you mean by the water comes out white. The water when I rinse with soap usually comes out a bit white due to bubbles & lather.


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## deb8907

Well, shampoo bars has just moved to #1 on my "TO DO" soap list!  Thank you for the recipe Genny!  I'll report back.


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## melstan775

Do you have hard water jayjay?


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## Kansas Farm Girl

Used my shampoo bar for the first time today. I used Genny's original recipe expect I subbed almond oil for the avocado, because that's what I had and it gave the closest # to the avocado, and so far I like it. I will have to use it a few more times to determine how well my hair does, I really hope I am able to get a recipe that my hair likes, I HATE buying shampoo. I made the conditioner on the BB site and have been using that for a few weeks and used it with my shampoo bar today.  My avocado oil had come in by the time I tried that. Thank you for this recipe.


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## Ruthie

I really need to make a shampoo bar. I'm allergic to many store bought shampoos and seem to be developing an allergy to the one I have not had trouble with. Here is what I've come up with from the oils I have:
coconut 28.8 %
sunflower 19.2 %
castor 5%
olive 47%
superfat at 5%
I know with that much olive it will probably feel slimy, but don't want to increase coconut cause then it will be drying. I guess I could go up on the sunflower or castor, but how much? The iodine is a bit high with this recipe but everything else seems to be within the desired range.


----------



## Second Impression

jayjay23 said:


> people I have another problem...
> I washed my hair again yesterday, but I did ACV rinse (5 tbl spoon acv, rest was water) left to sit a minute, rinsed out...and my hair is greasy...I used too much didn't I ?
> 
> but here is my real problem...I noticed that when I washed my hair yesterday (and the day before) with the bar, that when I rinse, the water comes out white...like when I dye my hair black, and wash it, the water is black, with the bar it's white....what is that? WHY is that? again, I messed something up..



You could try rinsing with citrus juice instead of ACV. My hair was greasy too a day after the ACV rinse (and smelly) so I tried 1oz lemon juice in 5oz water, SO much better and I haven't had to rinse again. It also takes a much more thorough rinse just to get the CP shampoo out compared to the commercial stuff.


----------



## Lindy

Ruthie said:


> I really need to make a shampoo bar. I'm allergic to many store bought shampoos and seem to be developing an allergy to the one I have not had trouble with. Here is what I've come up with from the oils I have:
> coconut 28.8 %
> sunflower 19.2 %
> castor 5%
> olive 47%
> superfat at 5%
> I know with that much olive it will probably feel slimy, but don't want to increase coconut cause then it will be drying. I guess I could go up on the sunflower or castor, but how much? The iodine is a bit high with this recipe but everything else seems to be within the desired range.



Olive oil doesn't get slimy until you're at 100%.... at 47% it will add some conditioning.  Your Coconut oil is way too high.  Drop it down to a max of 15%....


----------



## jayjay23

honestly, I don't really know wether or not I have hard water...but I can't really afford a water softner at the moment.
I thought that by now it would be better, but it's like it's getting worse (shampooing with the bar)..and yes...the water comes out pretty white...like it's milk mixed with water :eh:

I made another batch with a different recipe, but I superfatted at 3% this time! worth a try..if it's better I'll post the recipe...


----------



## Lindy

Everyone's hair is different and so you are going to have to play with this to get a recipe that works for you.....


----------



## DeeAnna

Nevada said:


> ...adding a soft oil at trace would be less prone to saponification, because much of the lye is already used up..../QUOTE]
> 
> This might seem reasonable at first blush, but this idea isn't supported by Kevin Dunn's lab experiments and also by my practical experience. If the lye was mostly used up at trace, by definition I should have mostly soap in my soap pot at that point.
> 
> I don't. Finished sodium soap is definitely nothing like the lye-heavy pudding-y mixture heating up in my soap pot.
> 
> Trace is only a visual indicator of viscosity (thickness). It  is telling you the oil-water emulsion has become stabilized by the first  soap molecules that have formed, so you can stop stirring. The mixture  is a long ways away from being completely reacted into soap.
> 
> If the lye was mostly used up at trace, there would be no point to cooking a hot process soap, insulating a CP soap, or preventing CP  heating by putting the soap in the fridge. All of those techniques are methods of controlling the energy created by the increasing rate of reaction of the lye with the fats.
> 
> Temperature -- a measure of energy -- is a far better indicator of the completeness of the saponification reaction. At the time of trace, the temperature has only risen a degree or three, indicating the saponification is just getting started. The temperature will continue to rise and remain elevated above room temperature for hours after "trace", which means the lye reaction continues for at least that long.
> 
> (Even if you put the soap into the fridge, the soap will continue to give off heat energy, but the cold air removes the heat from the soap before much of a temperature rise occurs.)
> 
> The bottom line is that the rate of reaction of a specific "superfat" oil is not going to be much different if you add the oil to your pot at the beginning or if you wait 10-20 minutes until you have trace.
> 
> --DeeAnna
> 
> Reference: KM Dunn, Scientific Soapmaking, Clavicula Press, 2010.


----------



## ThenCameJen

I wanted to post an update, because my initial results with this have improved.   To recap from that, on 1/31 I asked for advice because my soap was still modelling-clay soft after 7 days.  For the record, I'm certain I did something to screw this up (maybe I mis-measured my water?) but I have no clue what.

Well, I decided that evening that I didn't have much to lose, so I wanted to slice it up as well as I could to help promote drying.  And it just got goopier. :razz: So instead I chunked it up and tossed it into the crock pot, and gave it a cook.  It took barely any time at all to get smooth and vaseline-y, so I glopped it back into a PVC mold.  Less than 12 hours later, it was already more firm than my previous attempt had been, and 24 hours after I remolded, I was able to remove the soap and slice it.  It was still soft, but not nearly as soft as it was!

I let it cure for about 2.5 weeks, and then decided to test it, to see if it was going to be soapy.  I took the thin end piece - which was harder than the rest - and tried it on my hair in the shower.  I was amazed to find it bubbled - not like shampoo, but a good, low bubble - and my hair was super clean AND soft.

Let me just say here - I have horrible, horrible water.  Our water is literally tea-colored when it comes out of the tap.  And it's "city" water!  Soap almost always feels scummy to me, but I had no issues with this.  Also, I've always had to use conditioner, because regular shampoos leave my hair feeling stripped and tangly.  Again, not with this!  My hair was clean, but very few tangles, and soft - not dry.  I did have a slight problem with frizz, but I'm used to that, and a little bit of frizz serum worked wonders.  I've used it four times since then, haven't touched conditioner, and I'm still pleased.

Thanks again for sharing a great recipe, that obviously can withstand even _my_ silly mistakes!


----------



## melstan775

ThenCameJen said:


> Let me just say here - I have horrible, horrible water.  Our water is literally tea-colored when it comes out of the tap.  And it's "city" water!



Wait what, city water is brown? That sounds like a serious sewer problem! Do you have some kind of filter?  I'm glad your shampoo bar finally came out but the water quality concernes me, maybe it's rusty pipes?


----------



## ThenCameJen

melstan775 said:


> Wait what, city water is brown? That sounds like a serious sewer problem! Do you have some kind of filter?  I'm glad your shampoo bar finally came out but the water quality concernes me, maybe it's rusty pipes?



Trust me, concerns me as well!  But yes, it's city water, albeit a small city.  And all of the water quality reports come back "good".  Most of the surrounding cities had the same water issues, but they installed RO systems to take care of it.  Our small city only just switch to a contracted public works/water department to try to save money, and they project an RO system by the end of next year.

I was born and raised south of Detroit, and we had clear, beautiful, awesome tasting tap water.  Same in northern Michigan.  When I moved down to the Gulf Coast, I was appalled at the water.  It tastes icky, it looks icky, and it feels icky.  I've overheard people in stores who were down here visiting family complain about the water, so you just have to know it's killing what little tourism we might have!

In order to filter the water, we'd have to do a whole house system, and that's out of the budget for now.  Well, that, and there is literally NO place to put one, since the washer, dryer, and water heater take up every square inch of the laundry room.   FWIW, we don't drink it - I have a water cooler, and we refill 5gal jugs at the Culligan-type machine.  I only use tap water for washing, and I'll cook with it as long as whatever I'm doing will boil the water.


----------



## lizflowers42

I've been using my shampoo bar for a week. I LOVE IT! I dunno if its the beer or banana in it that makes my hair so shiny! My curls are defined well when I scrunch them after showering! YAY!


----------



## DeeAnna

Yanno, the "conventional wisdom" is that CP soap is definitely bad stuff for hair. OTOH, I have been using my version of Genny's shampoo recipe for about 2 weeks now, and I'm just not seeing the dire consequences others warn about. 

My fine, wavy, shoulder length hair is soft and manageable. Low humidity does not make my hair static-y and "fly away". The commercial conditioner I had been using lavishly to keep my hair manageable after washing with commercial shampoo is almost too heavy for my hair now. I've cut back to using it only every 2-3 days. 

I know my grandmother, born in 1898, used soap, not shampoo, on her hair -- I imagine most women of her age would have done the same -- and her hair was always lovely. My personal experience and my memories of my grandmother fly in the face of today's "conventional wisdom". So what's the deal, I'm wondering......???


----------



## Kansas Farm Girl

I have been using Genny's original recipe with only 1 change (I didn't have avocado oil, sub-ed almond) and have been using it for 3 weeks now. I love it. I have been using the ACV rinse once a week or so, but do like the idea of using lemon juice better. I had wondered about that but had not gotten around to asking anyone yet. I do tend to use a conditioner I made from the recipe on Bramble Berry, trying to combat the tendency my hair has to dry out. Curls are actually curly again, it is getting softer by the day.


----------



## bonnyny

Genny, 
You have converted me! Thank you so much!
I have had a request for a shampoo bar that will brighten gray and silver hair. It looks like shampoos that do this add a temporary purple dye to counteract yellowing; and that any natural remedies (egg yolk, mayo, lemon juice) do not work. Are there any natural alternatives?


----------



## Lique

jayjay23 said:


> honestly, I don't really know wether or not I have hard water...but I can't really afford a water softner at the moment.
> I thought that by now it would be better, but it's like it's getting worse (shampooing with the bar)..and yes...the water comes out pretty white...like it's milk mixed with water :eh:
> 
> I made another batch with a different recipe, but I superfatted at 3% this time! worth a try..if it's better I'll post the recipe...



If you have hard water you can use 1tbs of Babassu to your recipe. 

I need to try this recipe. I tried making poo bars from scratch but don't like all the mess and fuss with the slsa etc.  Thanks for the recipe.


----------



## green soap

I made this 5 days ago.  Slightly altered from Genny and Lindy's original - thank you Genny and Lindy!:

avocado oil 36%
olive oil 34%
shea butter 16%
castor oil 14%

I used calendula petal tea (instead of water), small individual silicone molds and the soaps are a lovely yellow.  I scented them with lemon, rosemary and lemongrass essential oils. 

I made half my regular batch (only 1 lb) and got 8 little shampoo bars.  

So as I said it was 5 days ago.  I realize 4-6 weeks is the optimum cure, but I am so wanting to wash my hair with it.  It should be 100% saponified, so no harm in it, right?  I am usually more patient that this....


----------



## Genny

bonnyny said:


> I have had a request for a shampoo bar that will brighten gray and silver hair. It looks like shampoos that do this add a temporary purple dye to counteract yellowing; and that any natural remedies (egg yolk, mayo, lemon juice) do not work. Are there any natural alternatives?



I'm going to be honest, I have no idea.  But alkanet popped into my head as soon as you said purple dye.


----------



## Lindy

*Greensoap* The recipe is Genny's so I can't take any credit there.  I have to say I am really enjoying everyone's success and this thread.


----------



## green soap

I posted pictures of the shampoo bars in the photo section.  We also went ahead and tried one.  Both myself and DH are very pleased, one use so far and my hair feels softer than usual.  It looks fine too!  I will update in a few days of use.  So far so good, thank you Genny!


----------



## Mommysoaper

I really want to try this recipe but need to order some avocado oil.  Thanks for posting the recipe!  I have hair down to my butt and have a tough time with regular shampoos and conditioners.  Hopefully this recipe will work for me!  Thanks so much!


----------



## flavapor

Do any of you using these bars have dry hair?  My hair is very dry, so much so that I can actually go 7 days without washing and it doesnt even look greasy.  Usually the first two days after washing I have to put alot of leave in conditioner in just to make it look normal.  I would be interested in trying these too.


----------



## paillo

Alkanet for brightening graying hair! What an interesting idea! I'm going to make a tiny batch and use it just for myself. If I wind up being Purple Haze for a month or so, well, them's the breaks and I won't mind


----------



## chicklet

I'm really wondering about the alkanet.  I did color my first 3 batches of shampoo bars with alkanet - mostly just to make them different from other round soap I was making then.  I have some gray sprinkled thru, mostly at my temples, and I will have to say that my gray was much, much less noticeable when I was using the alkanet shampoo bars.  I haven't had a color since about September and for the last several weeks I've noticed how much grayer I look - but I've been using an uncolored shampoo bar for about 3 weeks now!  Hmmm..... while I was using the alkanet bars I kept thinking that maybe the shampoo bars were making the gray hair less coarse so therefore less noticeable.  But maybe it was the alkanet!


----------



## Genny

flavapor said:


> Do any of you using these bars have dry hair?  My hair is very dry, so much so that I can actually go 7 days without washing and it doesnt even look greasy.  Usually the first two days after washing I have to put alot of leave in conditioner in just to make it look normal.  I would be interested in trying these too.



I have thin dry hair.  I can go quite a few days without washing before my hair starts to get greasy also.

That was one of the main reasons that I made sure that the soap had 0 for cleansing & was high in conditioning.


----------



## flavapor

Genny said:


> I have thin dry hair.  I can go quite a few days without washing before my hair starts to get greasy also.
> 
> That was one of the main reasons that I made sure that the soap had 0 for cleansing & was high in conditioning.


 
ok, gonna give them a try, thanks


----------



## paillo

chicklet said:


> I'm really wondering about the alkanet.  I did color my first 3 batches of shampoo bars with alkanet - mostly just to make them different from other round soap I was making then.  I have some gray sprinkled thru, mostly at my temples, and I will have to say that my gray was much, much less noticeable when I was using the alkanet shampoo bars.  I haven't had a color since about September and for the last several weeks I've noticed how much grayer I look - but I've been using an uncolored shampoo bar for about 3 weeks now!  Hmmm..... while I was using the alkanet bars I kept thinking that maybe the shampoo bars were making the gray hair less coarse so therefore less noticeable.  But maybe it was the alkanet!



Very interesting, thanks for the update! I haven't made my batch yet, but am going to go HEAVY on the alkanet hoping for your results


----------



## lillybella

Would anyone use shea butter in a shampoo bar?


----------



## lizflowers42

Yes-its in the original listed recipe. 

This could totally be me with a placebo effect, but my hair feels great, soft, and it seems like it's noticeably longer-like my ponytail is fuller. Then again I am due for a cut because my layers seem to be falling heavier  Placebo or not, this is a keeper recipe! I should make it plain to see if I like it the same...but why change it if it works??


----------



## thefarmerdaughter

As I type, my attempt at Lindy/Genny's shampoo bar's are in the mold! A while back there were a few posts about the use of eggs in shampoo, which I've used before in my soaps, so I tossed in a few, also decided to add some buttermilk and honey. I figure even if I don't like them for my hair, its gonna make a nice bar of soap.


----------



## Lindy

I am loving the idea of adding eggs, buttermilk & honey to the shampoo.  Looking forward to hearing how this turns out for you....


----------



## paillo

Genny said:


> <snip>
> 
> But a post Lindy made here http://www.soapmakingforum.com/f19/how-basic-shampoo-bar-recipe-30757/  helped me see the error of my ways.
> 
> I'm feeling so good about it, I'm going to share the recipe I created:
> Water as percent of oil weight: 35%
> Superfat: 6%
> 
> Avocado Oil: 30%
> Castor Oil: 10%
> Olive Oil: 40%
> Shea Butter: 10%
> Soybean Oil: 10%
> 
> </ snip>
> 
> If anyone decides to try it, please let me know how you feel about it.



Thanks to both Lindy and Genny! I've been playing with shampoo bars, and of all those I've made I like this one the best. Have used beer instead of water, and added buttermilk to one. Tried several with various percentages of coconut oil, and decided they're too drying even for my coarse, wavy, oily hair.

Now playing with different conditioning oils. Never woulda guessed I'd get obsessed with shampoo bars - but they are such fun!


----------



## nanashousesoap

I made a 1 lb batch of this recipe in the crockpot last night.  I followed the recipe but used 1/2 aloe vera gel &  1/2 distilled water for the lye mixture and added honey at trace.  I cut & tested it today and I'M LOVE LOVE LOVING IT!  My hair is thin and baby fine and usually lays flat to my head unless I load it up with root lifter before I blow dry.  NOT THIS TIME THOUGH!  Awesome recipe, Genny!  Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Hazel

Genny said:


> I'm going to be honest, I have no idea.  But alkanet popped into my head as soon as you said purple dye.



I just saw Soap Making Resource has Red Sandalwood on sale. I wonder if it would work in a shampoo bar. To quote from the site, 





> Red Sandalwood powder will produce from a purplish red to a maroon color  in your soap.  This is one of the natural soap colorants that react  substantially to the PH level of your product. A lower PH level will  result in more red while a higher PH level results in more purple.


http://www.soap-making-resource.com/natural-soap-colorants.html

They also have the alkanet powder on sale. :wink:


----------



## Smee

Aw, crap.  Stop it!  This is so unfair.  I already spend $97 at milehighsoap.com

Smoking was cheaper...:Kitten Love:


----------



## Hazel

Resistance is futile.


----------



## Ruthie

Smee said:


> Aw, crap. Stop it! This is so unfair. I already spend $97 at milehighsoap.com
> 
> Smoking was cheaper...:Kitten Love:


 
Smee, I got a chuckle out of your comment. You see, Hubby and I recently had a slight tiff. And we have been at this so long that our disagreements are few and far between. We had just come from WalMart where a ticket total of around $400 had caught him off guard. When we got home he totaled up all my soapmaking oils and it came to about $75. Then he says, "My hobby is shooting, but I'm waiting to get a new clip for my gun...." roblem: That is as far as he got. "Shooting is your second hobby," I told him. "Your first hobby is drinking beer and it cost way more than $75 a month." He has not said a word about what I spend since then!

P.S.  I guess I should add that he does not do both hobbies at the same time!  As a matter of fact, he hardly ever shoots.  He mostly just cleans and talks about his guns.


----------



## flavapor

Just made my first batch but it was cp is that ok?  I am dying to use this!  May 1st cant come soon enough


----------



## lizflowers42

flavapor said:


> Just made my first batch but it was cp is that ok?  I am dying to use this!  May 1st cant come soon enough



Yep!  Just wait a while before using it!


----------



## flavapor

Thanks Liz


----------



## nanashousesoap

I loved the HP one so much .. I did another 2 lb batch CP last night.


----------



## Smee

Hazel said:


> Resistance is futile.




I know, Hazel, I know.  

I had to smuggle a 5-pound cannister of citric acid into
my own freakin' house so "someone" wouldn't see it!

I can't believe I have come to this.............:shh:


----------



## Hazel

Smuggling supplies in and hiding them from a member of your household? Sounds like behavior which requires meetings where you're anonymous and use a 12 step program. Can you say addiction? Sure...I knew you could.


----------



## Lindy

Ruthie you cracked me up.  (I am now cleaning tea off my keyboard).

Smee the good news is  -  there is no 12 Step Program for us!!!  Woo Hoo (insert happy dance here)


----------



## Kansas Farm Girl

I made one batch of this shampoo, using the first bar, gave one to daughter and the others are waiting for me. BUT I have already started thinking about the next batch I will make. I have been using bar #1 for a month and it looks like it will last at least 2 more months, minimum. I do this soaping is an addiction. My sister decided to try it, first 2 batches didn't go so well, so she decided to leave this to me and she would stick to her own hobbies. Last week she brought me one of each of the 5 batches she made. When I mentioned that she wasn't going to make anymore she looked very sheepish and said "it bit me". She is now addicted too. So is daughter. Guess this is a family addiction.  can we do meetings while mixing up my next batch?


----------



## Hazel

Kansas Farm Girl said:


> can we do meetings while mixing up my next batch?



Yes, but only anonymously. :silent:


----------



## paillo

I am SO in love with this basic shampoo bar recipe, thanks to Lindy and Genny.

So I FINALLY made the experimental batch I've been so excited about, using alkanet in hopes of brightening graying hair.

I deviated from the recipe and used about:
30 percent alkanet-infused olive oil
10 percent each of:
Babassu, Avocado butter, Castor, Jojoba, Argan, Shea and Broccoli seed
Scented with Rosemary and Peppermint EOs

Did half lye liquid with distilled water, half with buttermilk. Additives: sodium lactate, tussah silk, sugar

Curing now, can't WAIT to try it!


----------



## DeeAnna

Paillo -- please let us know how it turns out -- I am very curious!


----------



## lillybella

Where is milehighsoap.com?

It must be Denver!

How did I miss this one?


----------



## whitetulips

Paillo, did you freeze the buttermilk into cubes before adding it to the lye so that it doesn't scorch?

I'm hoping to try the HP recipe tomorrow and thought buttermilk would be good to add to the original recipe.  I have powdered buttermilk in the freezer for baking purposes.  I bought some rosemary and lavender EO to use.  I thought about doing the peppermint EO, but went with lavender.  I really don't care for the smell of tea tree EO or rosemary EO, which I have both on hand.  I thought the lavender would make the soap smell better.  That is one reason I used to purchase shampoo..I wanted a great smell.  I don't think lavender is a great smell, but heh.  Rosemary EO is supposed to be really good for the scalp.  I just want to make sure nobody who is pregnant or has epilepsy uses the shampoo bar (according to all I've read).

What is alkanet?


----------



## Lindy

Alkanet is a plant that we use the root of for dying things....

http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/learn/alkanet.php


----------



## Smee

lillybella said:


> Where is milehighsoap.com?
> 
> It must be Denver!  ...



It is!  It is in Denver!  but they don't carry alkanet.  I checked.  :-(


----------



## Kansas Farm Girl

I know one stop on my next trip to Denver. I hope to see the new grandbaby between trips to Mile High Soap and Peak Candle.... DH thinks we will be going to see the baby, little does he know.


----------



## whitetulips

The name, "alkanet" reminds me of the hairspray from the 80's, "hairnet".  Don't ask me why.  You were all talking about using it to help with gray hair and hair dye in shampoo, and all I could think was hairspray.  Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Lindy

Check you local health food store...


----------



## Genny

whitetulips said:


> The name, "alkanet" reminds me of the hairspray from the 80's, "hairnet".  Don't ask me why.  You were all talking about using it to help with gray hair and hair dye in shampoo, and all I could think was hairspray.  Thanks for the clarification.



Are you thinking of Aquanet?   I remember my older sisters always had tons of cans of that stuff.  I'm pretty sure my older sisters and their group of mall hair friends are responsible for the hole in the ozone layer.


----------



## paillo

whitetulips said:


> Paillo, did you freeze the buttermilk into cubes before adding it to the lye so that it doesn't scorch?



I added it at trace with a little sugar mixed in. I use buttermilk in a jug, but often add powdered to really bump up the butterfat.

My go-to for Alkanet is Soapmaking Resource.


----------



## whitetulips

Ok, I tried a HP batch of the original recipe, no buttermilk, changed the EO to rosemary and lavender.  When I washed my fine hair, my hands kind of got stuck in it.  I thought that it stripped my hair of all natural oils.  But no, just the opposite.  I ran my wide tooth comb through my hair and it totally went through.  I've never been able to do that without conditioner.  When I dried my hair, though, it felt like I put a ton of pomade in my hair.  My hot rollers stayed better though.  I'm kind of torn.  Perhaps it's just too much oil for my fine hair.  Not sure if I'll need to do a lemon juice or acv rinse.  Will get more to try it, one with fine hair like me and another with thick, curly hair.


----------



## Lindy

If you are finding it too heavy then try adding a 'little' coconut oil in it.  I have a friend in Australia that needs to do that and she has fine, blonde hair too


----------



## Genny

Or, if you find it heavy, you can drop the shea butter.  I've hear a couple people have found that works better for them.


----------



## whitetulips

Dropping the shea butter would cut down on the cost.  I like that idea.  I did think about adding some coconut oil, as it was indicated earlier that it would dry the hair out.  I washed with it again today, but I definately need to do a rinse of something.


----------



## chicklet

Paillo your recipe sounds yummy.  I've made one batch with both jojoba and shea and without coconut but it was too much oil for my fine hair.  My friends with coarse and/or dry hair love it though.  My favorite for my hair right now is lots of tallow, castor, and avocado, and a little bit of coconut and shea.  I did do the vinegar rinse for several weeks but am to the point now where I don't have to use it at all.  I do every now and then just for the extra shine I feel it gives my hair, but I don't need it to settle the cuticle down like I did at first.  As far as the Rosemary essential oil - it is a very strong smell and I didn't like it at first, but it's grown on me and I am not making any claims here, but I know I have less hair falling out now.  The shampoo bars in general have helped in that regard, but I have really noticed a difference since I started adding the Rosemary essential oil.  And, as I've posted before, the alkanet makes my gray less noticeable for some reason.  I can't see me ever going back to commercial shampoo.


----------



## lizflowers42

whitetulips said:


> Ok, I tried a HP batch of the original recipe, no buttermilk, changed the EO to rosemary and lavender.  When I washed my fine hair, my hands kind of got stuck in it.  I thought that it stripped my hair of all natural oils.  But no, just the opposite.  I ran my wide tooth comb through my hair and it totally went through.  I've never been able to do that without conditioner.  When I dried my hair, though, it felt like I put a ton of pomade in my hair.  My hot rollers stayed better though.  I'm kind of torn.  Perhaps it's just too much oil for my fine hair.  Not sure if I'll need to do a lemon juice or acv rinse.  Will get more to try it, one with fine hair like me and another with thick, curly hair.



I have fine and thin hair, and I found the recipe to work really well for me hair!  I added clay and citric acid to mine at trace after reading through everyone's comments and I really like it.  No need to condition or use ACV rinse, and my curls are no longer flat looking!


----------



## Kansas Farm Girl

I love that my natural curls are back. I used ACV at first also, to now only once in awhile. Cheers to Genny for getting us started on this one!


----------



## soapcakes

I had my husband test this shampoo bar today and he LOVED it. He has used bar soap on occasion to wash his hair, but he said this was more like a shampoo than any other bar of soap he’s ever used. I think that is a great compliment to Genny….well done on the recipe, and thank you again for sharing it!


----------



## kerianne

is water used as the liquid for this recipe?


----------



## dudeitsashley

lizflowers42 said:


> I have fine and thin hair, and I found the recipe to work really well for me hair!  I added clay and citric acid to mine at trace after reading through everyone's comments and I really like it.  No need to condition or use ACV rinse, and my curls are no longer flat looking!



What does adding the citric acid do? Does it just lower the ph of the soap?


----------



## Lindy

kerianne said:


> is water used as the liquid for this recipe?



Yes, but beer is another alternative which makes an amazing shampoo...



dudeitsashley said:


> What does adding the citric acid do? Does it just lower the ph of the soap?



Yes, Citric Acid is going to lower the pH.


----------



## dudeitsashley

Lindy said:


> Yes, but beer is another alternative which makes an amazing shampoo...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, Citric Acid is going to lower the pH.



What is a good starting amount to use? Should it be diluted before hand? This is a new concept to me haha


----------



## Lindy

I would love to answer that but I've not used it myself.  I do find the idea fascinating though....


----------



## Mary_White

Lindy, is there any way you can make a decent shampoo bar without soybean oil? Also, what are some substitutes for avocado oil????


----------



## Lindy

Mary you can try Avocado, Sweet Almond....


----------



## kharmon320

The avocado oil arrived.  I can't wait to try this shampoo bar recipe this weekend.


----------



## Genny

Mary_White said:


> Lindy, is there any way you can make a decent shampoo bar without soybean oil? Also, what are some substitutes for avocado oil????



I use soybean oil mostly as a filler.  So you can leave it out.  As for substitutions for avocado oil, I've never subbed it (I love avocado).  But I'd think any high conditioning oil could be subbed.


----------



## hoegarden

I tried the recipe last week. Currently leaving it to cure. I wonder how it will feel for me. I have no soy oil so I replaced it with Camellia oil.


----------



## Basia

Do you guys think that a safflower oil, high oleic is a good substitution for a soybean oil? 
How much of tea tree EO per 1 pound of soap should I add?

thanks, Basia


----------



## Kansas Farm Girl

I had to sub out avocado oil because I didn't have any and was too impatient to wait for some to come in. Almond was the closest I had on had. I did use soy, I have PLENTY of it on hand and am trying to use it up so I use it in almost every batch right now. I love my shampoo, I can't say that often enough. I had been spending big bucks on shampoo and it was not giving me the results I wanted. I cannot say that now with this recipe.


----------



## Lindy

Kansas Farm Girl that is just so fabulous!  I can't say how glad I am that people are realizing that a shampoo doesn't have to be a syndet bar to work and that you don't need an ACV rinse when using a CP shampoo bar.... :clap:


----------



## Kansas Farm Girl

I did use the ACV at first, but didn't like that so quit and use a conditioner I make and the curls are coming back, the bounce is back, no friz.. At this rate I will have nice hair again. The bars I made before that I got the recipes from somewhere, and I don't remember where, I didn't like the results of. But this one is a keeper.


----------



## kharmon320

How many of you HP'd this?  I can't decide if I want to CP or HP, but am anxious to try it so I may just HP the first batch.  I think someone mentioned their CP batch ended up better in the long run, but I'm not 100% sure if I remembered correctly.


----------



## Genny

kharmon320 said:


> How many of you HP'd this?  I can't decide if I want to CP or HP, but am anxious to try it so I may just HP the first batch.  I think someone mentioned their CP batch ended up better in the long run, but I'm not 100% sure if I remembered correctly.



I have HP'ed it & CP'ed it.  Both turned out the same for me.


----------



## kharmon320

Okay...my first batch is in the oven "gelling".  I CP'd it, but may make another batch tomorrow using HP.  In an effort to use up many of my "1 oz'ers", I used the OMH from Southern Garden Scents as the fragrance, but I think the next one will be essential oils only.


----------



## jeremmy

Made this recipe about 6 weeks ago and tried it for the first time this week. At first i couldnt even run my hands through my wet hair because it was so thick or something, so i grabbed some acv that happened to be nearby and did a rinse with it (all still in the shower). My hair was soooo soft once it dried, but it did look a bit more oily. The next day I left it as is and my hair was definitely dirtier feeling and looking than usual. I normally wash every other day, as I have fine hair that looks disgusting if i do it less often. I used it again today and it seemed even worse. The difference was that the first time i let it air dry and didnt touch it, and today I blow dried and tried to style it for church. I ended up throwing my hair up because it was too oily looking. I love the softness, but of course not the oiliness. Is there a period of time where it detoxes, or is that not very common with this recipe? Does anyone have an idea what contributes the softness...and what might be the oily culprit? I would love to use this recipe as a jumping off point for one specifically for my hair...but im not sure which direction to go.


----------



## chicklet

I can share what I have experienced myself - I also have fine hair that I wash every other day.  There is definitely an adjustment period when you start to use a shampoo bar.  I don't know why - it may be a kind of detox or at the very least a clarifying effect.  So for some people it takes a couple of weeks or several washes before they know for sure how their hair is going to be with the bars.  You may also have to tweak the recipe for your hair.  I did.  I had been making a shampoo bar (I posted the recipe near the beginning of this forum) that I was pretty happy with - equal parts castor, coconut, avocado, and olive with just a small amount of jojoba - but after seeing Genny's recipe and reading about her good results I decided to experiment to see if I could do better than my original bar - mainly because she said she was not having to use the vinegar rinse.  The batch I made with no coconut oil was just not cleansing enough for my hair so I decided to add it back, but less than my original.  I read something someone said about using tallow in shampoo which sounded good to me, and I knew I liked the avocado, knew I liked the bubbles from the castor, and knew I needed a little bit of coconut so I went from there.  I put in a small amount of Shea butter for conditioning, cut back on the castor (from my original) and made it with beer (lots of bubbles) and I added Rosemary essential oil which I LOVE.  My hair has never looked better.  I really had forgotten that I had natural waves - haven't seen them in years and years.  I don't have to use the vinegar rinse now (but do sometimes for the shine) - I towel dry, spray on a few squirts of spray gel, and either air dry or blow dry on low.  I am not having to use hot rollers or a curling iron except when I let it air dry I do usually have to do something with the front part (side bangs).  

In your case, you might be like me and need just a little bit of coconut oil to make sure you don't have the oiliness, but it may just be that your hair hasn't adjusted yet.  Don't give up!  It's so worth it when you find what works.


----------



## bonnyny

I also have fine hair & wash every 4 days. Genny's recipe is wonderful - absolutely love it. Thank you so much, Genny! The only change I made was to use goat milk. And stuck it in the refrigerator after the pour (because of the sugar and milk). Used NG's Orchid Rain. It's important to really rinse well down to the scalp. Haven't had to use the apple cider rinse or any conditioner (which was always needed before). There may just a few tangles when brushing, but not many. Blow dries great. Kisses to you, Genny.....


----------



## jeremmy

Ive heard great things about rosemary essential oil is shampoo bars, but unfortunately it darkens hair. Mine is blondish, so i didnt want that happening. Thanks for all the advice though 



chicklet said:


> I can share what I have experienced myself - I also have fine hair that I wash every other day.  There is definitely an adjustment period when you start to use a shampoo bar.  I don't know why - it may be a kind of detox or at the very least a clarifying effect.  So for some people it takes a couple of weeks or several washes before they know for sure how their hair is going to be with the bars.  You may also have to tweak the recipe for your hair.  I did.  I had been making a shampoo bar (I posted the recipe near the beginning of this forum) that I was pretty happy with - equal parts castor, coconut, avocado, and olive with just a small amount of jojoba - but after seeing Genny's recipe and reading about her good results I decided to experiment to see if I could do better than my original bar - mainly because she said she was not having to use the vinegar rinse.  The batch I made with no coconut oil was just not cleansing enough for my hair so I decided to add it back, but less than my original.  I read something someone said about using tallow in shampoo which sounded good to me, and I knew I liked the avocado, knew I liked the bubbles from the castor, and knew I needed a little bit of coconut so I went from there.  I put in a small amount of Shea butter for conditioning, cut back on the castor (from my original) and made it with beer (lots of bubbles) and I added Rosemary essential oil which I LOVE.  My hair has never looked better.  I really had forgotten that I had natural waves - haven't seen them in years and years.  I don't have to use the vinegar rinse now (but do sometimes for the shine) - I towel dry, spray on a few squirts of spray gel, and either air dry or blow dry on low.  I am not having to use hot rollers or a curling iron except when I let it air dry I do usually have to do something with the front part (side bangs).
> 
> In your case, you might be like me and need just a little bit of coconut oil to make sure you don't have the oiliness, but it may just be that your hair hasn't adjusted yet.  Don't give up!  It's so worth it when you find what works.


----------



## Lindy

Actually it's not the essential oil that darkens hair but rather an infusion.


----------



## jeremmy

I havent tried it myself. I was just reading comments on the blog post that said that and people were mentioning darkening. Not sure which they used, just which was in the ingredients.



Lindy said:


> Actually it's not the essential oil that darkens hair but rather an infusion.


----------



## Lindy

I'm trying to remember what it is that helps with light hair besides lemons...  When I was a teen we used to use lemon juice to bleach out hair in the summer....


----------



## Genny

Lindy said:


> I'm trying to remember what it is that helps with light hair besides lemons...  When I was a teen we used to use lemon juice to bleach out hair in the summer....



I've heard chamomile's good.


----------



## paillo

Ditto on the chamomile. I have a test batch curing with chamomile-infused olive oil, powdered chamomile, and lemon EO. Oh, and beer for the liquid.


----------



## Lindy

I had thought of Chamomile but I wasn't sure and didn't want to mis-speak.  Thanks ladies....


----------



## Mommysoaper

So if chamomile is good for blonde hair, what would be a good additive for red hair?  Just curious!  I have red hair and am planning to make this in future and give it a try, yay!


----------



## Genny

Mommysoaper said:


> So if chamomile is good for blonde hair, what would be a good additive for red hair?  Just curious!  I have red hair and am planning to make this in future and give it a try, yay!



I honestly don't know, I'll do some looking around.


I found different things with google that says the following are good for red hair, but it's google, so take it with a grain of salt 
Red Hibiscus
Calendula
madder root
Rose Hips
Alkanet

Mountain Rose Herbs actually has a Herbal Hair Care page on their site: (Scroll down to the middle to find out about different herbs for different hair types)
http://mountainroseblog.com/herbal-hair-care/


----------



## Mommysoaper

Thanks for the link!  I'll have to read up on it.  I appreciate the help!


----------



## whitetulips

Jeremmy,  I had the same thing happen to me.  My fine hair was so heavy with oil.  Someone suggested I take the 10% Shea butter out, so for my second batch I did.  I added 5% to olive oil and added 5% coconut oil.  It was still too oily for my fine hair. When I HP my third batch, I'll try it at 10% coconut oil and drop the extra 5% olive oil back to the original amount and see how that goes.


----------



## kdaniels8811

I just tried my newly cured shampoo bar and it is great!  My hair is fine and thin so I was hesitant, especially since I do not use conventional shampoo, just herbs.  I made the bars with citric acid (we have very hard water) and rosemary powder for hair health, and clay.  The results are fantastic, my hair dried soft, shiny, and full!  It almost looks thick.  I am very pleased, thank you so much for sharing this recipe.


----------



## Rachelmf

I just made a batch of this a few hours ago, with sunflower oil rather than soybean.  I am looking forward to trying it!


----------



## Desert Karen

My second soap I ever made, was a shampoo bar. I loved it then, and I am still using it. I have dry hair to begin with, so I figured I'd have to make some kind of a conditioner. Nope. I'm in the office and don't have the exact recipe with me, but it had in it, Olive, coconut 76*, Jojoba, Apricot Kernal, and sweet almond oil in it, as well as peppermint EO, and Tea Tree oil, no colors and no scent. I have always gotten a small amount of dandruff when the weather changed from summer to winter and with this bar, not a problem. I am convinced it is the Tea Tree oil that did that. That stuff is a gift from the Almighty himself!



kdaniels8811 said:


> I just tried my newly cured shampoo bar and it is great!  My hair is fine and thin so I was hesitant, especially since I do not use conventional shampoo, just herbs.  I made the bars with citric acid (we have very hard water) and rosemary powder for hair health, and clay.  The results are fantastic, my hair dried soft, shiny, and full!  It almost looks thick.  I am very pleased, thank you so much for sharing this recipe.


 
I have thin, baby fine hair as well. I need to note on what oils I used, did not work well for my daughter who has thick hair to below her waist and my daughter in law who has very thick hair as well. It was just too oily a bar for them.


----------



## christinak

I absolutely have to try some shampoo bars.  I'm really excited.  I'm out of avocado though.  I do have sweet almond!  I want to throw a couple eggs in there since I have so many.  My hair is as thick as three people hair.  Is it ok to use fo in here?


----------



## stargazer44

I am intrigued by shampoo bars, but haven't tried yet.  I have really thick but fine hair..... Thinking I am going to try this recipe but wondering about adding coconut oil.... Thank you so much for sharing this!  You have save me many hours of trial and error


----------



## Genny

christinak said:


> Is it ok to use fo in here?



Yep, it's perfectly fine.


----------



## Genny

Someone mentioned on here about how their hair didn't seem to fall out after switching to shampoo soap.  I have always had super thin hair that falls out easily while washing, which I always attributed to my anemia issues.  Well, after someone mentioned about their hair not falling out anymore, I realized that since switching to shampoo soap that I haven't had to clean out clumps of hair from the shower.  Gross, I know.  Looking at my head, I also see a lot of areas of hair about an inch or so long that are growing in in my "balding" areas.  

I also HP'ed a batch of this recipe the other day, but I used different eo's and I infused my oils in rose petals instead of chamomile & calendula.  I also added some honeyquat & horsetail grass extract.  I tried a small piece of that batch today & I think I love it more than the original.  Lots of lather and my hair feels even softer.


----------



## Soapman Ryan

Genny said:


> Someone mentioned on here about how their hair didn't seem to fall out after switching to shampoo soap.  I have always had super thin hair that falls out easily while washing, which I always attributed to my anemia issues.  Well, after someone mentioned about their hair not falling out anymore, I realized that since switching to shampoo soap that I haven't had to clean out clumps of hair from the shower.  Gross, I know.  Looking at my head, I also see a lot of areas of hair about an inch or so long that are growing in in my "balding" areas.
> 
> I also HP'ed a batch of this recipe the other day, but I used different eo's and I infused my oils in rose petals instead of chamomile & calendula.  I also added some honeyquat & horsetail grass extract.  I tried a small piece of that batch today & I think I love it more than the original.  Lots of lather and my hair feels even softer.



Genny, I saw throughout this thread that some used citric acid and clay. Have you tried either of these in yours?


----------



## Genny

Soapman Ryan said:


> Genny, I saw throughout this thread that some used citric acid and clay. Have you tried either of these in yours?



Nope, not yet.


----------



## Soapman Ryan

kdaniels8811 said:


> I just tried my newly cured shampoo bar and it is great!  My hair is fine and thin so I was hesitant, especially since I do not use conventional shampoo, just herbs.  I made the bars with citric acid (we have very hard water) and rosemary powder for hair health, and clay.  The results are fantastic, my hair dried soft, shiny, and full!  It almost looks thick.  I am very pleased, thank you so much for sharing this recipe.



kdaniels8811,
How much citric acid and clay did you add? Did you use rhaussoul or kaolin clay?


----------



## Lindy

christinak said:


> I absolutely have to try some shampoo bars.  I'm really excited.  I'm out of avocado though.  I do have sweet almond!  I want to throw a couple eggs in there since I have so many.  My hair is as thick as three people hair.  Is it ok to use fo in here?



Yes I use FO's in some of mine.  I actually sell several different fragrances, some are FO's and some are EO's...


----------



## Ruthie

I love my shampoo bars.  I even have shampooed with my regular bars and they feel fine.  But I keep my hair really short.  Do any of you who use shampoo bars have longer hair?  And does it work well?  I know I will get this question if I ever get around to selling, so I need some feedback.  Thanks!


----------



## lizflowers42

Ruthie said:


> I love my shampoo bars.  I even have shampooed with my regular bars and they feel fine.  But I keep my hair really short.  Do any of you who use shampoo bars have longer hair?  And does it work well?  I know I will get this question if I ever get around to selling, so I need some feedback.  Thanks!



I have shoulder length curly hair and the additions that I have made to Genny's base recipe are working great for me!



Soapman Ryan said:


> kdaniels8811,
> How much citric acid and clay did you add? Did you use rhaussoul or kaolin clay?



I put in 1 tsp of citric acid, and 1 tsp bentonite clay into mine-I only made a 1 pound batch.


----------



## kdaniels8811

I am so late in replying!  One teaspoon ppo of each and I used benonite clay since I have pounds of it.


----------



## Lindy

My hair is now about shoulder length and it works fine for me.  I have customers with long hair that love it too....


----------



## kharmon320

kdaniels8811 said:


> I am so late in replying!  One teaspoon ppo of each and I used benonite clay since I have pounds of it.



At what point did you add the citric acid and clay?  Did you HP or CP the shampoo bar?  Thanks!!


----------



## Desert Karen

I made my second batch of shampoo on Friday. I'm in the office so don't have the recipe, but I used Castor, olive, canola, jojoba and sweet almond oils. I added some Palm Kernal flakes to harden the bar. I made a 3 lb. loaf. I added peppermint and tea tree EO and a touch of Edens Garden FO from Brambleberry, and Yuzu, same place. I needed to use them up. I also used a touch of neon yellow pigment (testing to see how NEON it gets). The tea tree oil, to me is a remarkable EO. I've not had any issues with scalp itching or dandruff. The peppermint, I love the tingle. I cut chunks instead of bars to see if it's easier to handle in the shower. I rub the entire bar across my head, not just work up later. 

Shampoo bars don't seem to be a big seller, and I don't know what. They are AWESOME!

Vinegar may smell yucky, but once you have rinsed your hair the smell leaves rapidly. It makes an excellent rinse for your clothing instead of using a commercial preparation. 

I also keep a large open bottle near my sink when I am soaping. If I get lye on me, the vinegar will rapidly neutralize the lye so your not burned. I put a good half cup so so in my mixing bowl, and I dump the tools i'm using into it, before I rinse and then wash my tools.

I missed it. What does the citric acid do? I'm getting a shipment in on Friday.


----------



## lizflowers42

kharmon320 said:


> At what point did you add the citric acid and clay?  Did you HP or CP the shampoo bar?  Thanks!!



I know you didn't ask me, but I'm gonna answer anyway 

I put my citric acid and bentonite clay directly into my lye water once it cooled a bit.  Not sure if that is a no-no, but nothing bad happened (ie volcano).  But if someone else knows please let me know and I promise I will never do it again!


----------



## Genny

Desert Karen said:


> I also keep a large open bottle near my sink when I am soaping. If I get lye on me, the vinegar will rapidly neutralize the lye so your not burned.



You'll do less damage to your skin & it will hurt less if you use water instead of vinegar since vinegar & lye will cause an exothermic reaction.


----------



## kharmon320

lizflowers42 said:


> I know you didn't ask me, but I'm gonna answer anyway
> 
> I put my citric acid and bentonite clay directly into my lye water once it cooled a bit.  Not sure if that is a no-no, but nothing bad happened (ie volcano).  But if someone else knows please let me know and I promise I will never do it again!



Thanks for your answer! :smile:


----------



## LovelyMalia

I went to make a batch of this - thrilled that I had everything UNTIL I went to make it and realized the oil I was using was APRICOT KERNEL and not AVOCADO!

I made it anyway and am hoping for the best. If all else fails, its a gentle enough recipe that I'll leave it near my bathroom sink for when I wash my face at night.


----------



## Lindy

Genny said:


> You'll do less damage to your skin & it will hurt less if you use water instead of vinegar since vinegar & lye will cause an exothermic reaction.



  Another vote for this!  Ask me how I know :crazy:


----------



## kdaniels8811

I added citric acid, rosemary, and clay at trace.  Citric acid is used to aid rinsing, we have very hard water.  This alleviates the need for vinegar rinse.  Oh, I CPed this soap.


----------



## newbie

THis has been an excellent thread, so thank you, Genny, for starting it and for everyone who has commented. I'm going to make my first batch tonight. Wondering if anyone has used madder root in their bars, following on the comments that calendula might be helpful for blondes and alkanet for graying? Might it add some red highlights or do you think people would turn out pink?

First batch made. Being incapable of not experimenting with something I've never made before, I put one egg yolk, a few ounces of heavy cream, silk and two cubes of sugar in it. Does that seem like too much on top of a 6% SF? ( a 1 pound batch)


----------



## hoegarden

kdaniels8811 said:


> I added citric acid, rosemary, and clay at trace. Citric acid is used to aid rinsing, we have very hard water. This alleviates the need for vinegar rinse. Oh, I CPed this soap.


 
that sounds cool. How much citric acid did you add? 1% of oil?

I think my water was abit too hard too. was thinking if I could do anything to make the soap better. 

I am not talking about Ginny fomular here. Still curing it and soon will be trying it out.


----------



## kdaniels8811

I added 1 teaspoon ppo for all of the additives.  Off to wash my hair again, I wash every 4-5 days and the shampoo bar did not make me need to wash more often.  I really like this one!  Others I tried were fails.  This recipe rocks.


----------



## jcatblum

My hair is super oily. You can begin seeing slick spots in less than 24 hours. I have tried every type of shampoo. ACV rinse helps some but not enough.  Anyone with MAJOR oily hair use this recipe?


----------



## Lindy

Something to keep in mind when you have an oily scalp.  You need to be extra gentle with it because if you start stripping the oils and getting too harsh your body reacts by producing more oils and you get a snowball (oil ball *sic*) going....


----------



## Moonshea Botanicals

Silly question ....BUT.....how large a batch is the original recipe? I was curious and I could find any reference to how many pounds it is. I don't have an actual mold yet, only 4 quart half & half cardboard cartons. I don't wanna make this and go "Dammit! I have soap left over!"

Plus, I have strange hair. It _likes_ being processed. I had PIN STRAIGHT hair growing up. Just before puberty hit...it hit me hard. For some reason my soft, straight hair became a straw like curly mass. I color my hair every month. I am hoping that this will be my holy grail and I won't have to spend a fortune on shampoo & conditioners anymore.


----------



## lizflowers42

Moonshea Botanicals said:


> Silly question ....BUT.....how large a batch is the original recipe? I was curious and I could find any reference to how many pounds it is. I don't have an actual mold yet, only 4 quart half & half cardboard cartons. I don't wanna make this and go "Dammit! I have soap left over!"



Use the precentages in soapcalc. I made a pound batch because I wasn't sure it would be good for my hair type. A pound of shampoo bars is going to last me a long time! I'm still using my first bar and hubs uses it too.


----------



## DMCC

kdaniels8811 said:


> I added 1 teaspoon ppo for all of the additives.  Off to wash my hair again, I wash every 4-5 days and the shampoo bar did not make me need to wash more often.  I really like this one!  Others I tried were fails.  This recipe rocks.



Trying to get the citric acid addition straight. So, did you dissolve the citric acid in water first or just add it dry? I'm assuming adding this will also increase the SF % on its own. Made the original recipe as written and I liked it. Making it again today with modifications. Thanks!


----------



## FGOriold

Just wanted to add that I have been making (and using) shampoo bars for about 7 months now and they have become my best sellers along with my solid conditioner bars.  Adding argan oil is the key to making it appeal to buyers.  It seems that anything with argan oil for hair care is popular right now.


----------



## jcatblum

Lindy said:


> Something to keep in mind when you have an oily scalp.  You need to be extra gentle with it because if you start stripping the oils and getting too harsh your body reacts by producing more oils and you get a snowball (oil ball *sic*) going....


Thanks
My hair has been this way for about a full yr. I have had lots of time to test products. I have even tried going 2 days without washing when I am able to be at home & no one has to see me.  DH & kids all ask why my hair is wet!  I don't use lots of products & assume that this is just a stage due to hormones or something. Hopefully I won't keep this oily head for yrs to come. 

Anyone put lemon EO in this bar? Lemon is suppose to help with oily hair (take a peak in my shower, I have 3 lemon shampoos).


----------



## FGOriold

I put lemongrass EO in one of my shampoo bars as it is supposed to help balance oily hair and dry scalp.


----------



## Birdie Wife

[quoteFGOriold;326910]Just wanted to add that I have been making (and using) shampoo bars for about 7 months now and they have become my best sellers along with my solid conditioner bars.  Adding argan oil is the key to making it appeal to buyers.  It seems that anything with argan oil for hair care is popular right now.[/quote]

Great info...  What % argan oil do you use?  And what oils do you use in your conditioning bars?


----------



## FGOriold

I have 5 different shampoo bars and 2 of them have argan oil at 20 - 25% and those are the ones that sell out fast.  I also use a mix of Coconut or Babassu Oil, Olive Oil, Palm Oil, Rice Bran Oil, Shea Butter, Cocoa Butter, Castor Oil and one that has Coconut Milk.  I couldn't tell you if Argan Oil offers anything better than any of the other oils, but people look for it.  I make sure to use it in the liquid shampoos I am currently formulating.

The solid conditioner bars are made with BTMS and BTMS-50 with Argan Oil, Babassu or Coconut Oil, Shea Butter, Cocoa Butter and a bunch of other conditioning/protein/detangling stuff - these are not cold process soap bars.

~ Faith


----------



## Moonshea Botanicals

lizflowers42 said:


> Use the precentages in soapcalc. I made a pound batch because I wasn't sure it would be good for my hair type. A pound of shampoo bars is going to last me a long time! I'm still using my first bar and hubs uses it too.



LOL I woke up this morning and went "DUUUUUH!" when I realized that I could look at the soapcalc for the size.


----------



## kdaniels8811

DMCC said:


> Trying to get the citric acid addition straight. So, did you dissolve the citric acid in water first or just add it dry? I'm assuming adding this will also increase the SF % on its own. Made the original recipe as written and I liked it. Making it again today with modifications. Thanks!


 
I added the powders at trace and whisked it all in.  A little lemon EO makes it smell nice.

For the person with oily hair - mine was like that, too, the more I shampooed the more oily it became.  It was hard but I started stretching washes (days between) and it took about 6 weeks for my scalp to stop producing so much oil.  I can go 4-5 days now but my hair is up in a bun always - growing it out from chemo, it was waist length.


----------



## leniwie

Kansas Farm Girl said:


> Does this one still require the apple cider vinegar rinse? I don't mind using it but DH isn't fond of the smell.
> Thanks, Noela



try this:
lemon cut into chunks, also any "used" lemon you have, squeezed, sliced...
put in a jar, add some white vinegar (so that they are covered), let it stay in the fridge for a week or so, then strain, add 50% of water, put into some spray bottle (I kept one from some hair conditioner) - use after you rinse hair, smells citrus


----------



## Genny

leniwie said:


> try this:
> lemon cut into chunks, also any "used" lemon you have, squeezed, sliced...
> put in a jar, add some white vinegar (so that they are covered), let it stay in the fridge for a week or so, then strain, add 50% of water, put into some spray bottle (I kept one from some hair conditioner) - use after you rinse hair, smells citrus



I'd only do this in small amounts, especially if you leave it in your bathroom.
I had an herbal apple cider vinegar spray that I kept in the bathroom and within a month there was mold inside the bottle. :sick:


----------



## lizflowers42

leniwie said:


> try this:
> lemon cut into chunks, also any "used" lemon you have, squeezed, sliced...
> put in a jar, add some white vinegar (so that they are covered), let it stay in the fridge for a week or so, then strain, add 50% of water, put into some spray bottle (I kept one from some hair conditioner) - use after you rinse hair, smells citrus



It would probably work better just using the peels.  I do this with orange peels and white vinegar to make a disinfectant spray.  Leave them in the vinegar for about 2 weeks and then pitch the peels (throw 'em down the garbage disposal!)


----------



## kerianne

I made a CP batch of this two weeks ago, but ended up having to rebatch in the crockpot a few days later. I unmolded and cut the bars to cure, but they are still not hard. A bit spongy. Has this happened to anyone else?


----------



## newbie

At what rate have people used Rosemary EO and/or Tea tree oil? I just made my first batch with those in there but was leery of adding too much. I used 0.2 oz ppo of Rosemary EO and 0.1-0.2 oz ppo of tea tree. I added some peppermint FO at .4 oz ppo to cut some of the medicinal smell. Have people found more benefit at  a higher usage rate?


Also, is it possible to have too much alkanet infused OO? My oil was really dark and the bars, just poured, look almost black. What color are the shampoo bars that people have found to be helpful with the salt and pepper look?

Thanks


----------



## chicklet

kerianne - did you add water to the rebatch?  Too much water might account for the sponginess.

nwebie - I use Rosemary by itself in my shampoo bars (I'm addicted to the smell of the Rosemary!) and I use 1/2 oz ppo.  Hopefully some more experienced EO users will come along and comment on using more than that.  I don't know if you can use too much alkanet, but I feel that I definitely used too little in my last batch - they've faded to a beige color.    The bars that seemed to do the best job at camoflauging my gray hair were just a medium purple color.  I do like the alkanet and I do feel that it somehow works to hide my gray hair, but I still haven't arrived at the perfect amount to use.  I would love to see pics of your really dark bars and it would be cool if you kept track of how much they lightened up over time.


----------



## newbie

Will do, Chicklet. The batch gelled so I'm waiting for it to cool and then I'll unmold and take a picture. Yeah, beige bars wouldn't do it, I'm sure. I haven't used alkanet before so have no idea what to expect for fading so serial photos it is.

Do you notice definite benefit from the rosemary? Have you tried different rates?


----------



## chicklet

I haven't tried different amounts of rosemary. I've said this before, and I'm not making any claims, just sharing my experiences (and those of a few testers) - I think the rosemary has stopped my hair from falling out. Not totally, of course, but I'm seeing way less hair on the vanity and floor these days compared to when I was using commercial shampoo. As long as I'm able to make my rosemary shampoo bars I will never go back to the liquid stuff.


----------



## bonnyny

Experiment #1 with alkanet: Genny's recipe with goatmilk: 29% of the olive oil infused with alkanet, was very dark purple in the pot, turned blue-green in the refrigerator and 3 1/2 weeks later is now a solid gray. Back to the drawing board!


----------



## Ruthie

chicklet said:


> kerianne - did you add water to the rebatch?  Too much water might account for the sponginess.
> 
> nwebie - I use Rosemary by itself in my shampoo bars (I'm addicted to the smell of the Rosemary!) and I use 1/2 oz ppo.  Hopefully some more experienced EO users will come along and comment on using more than that.  I don't know if you can use too much alkanet, but I feel that I definitely used too little in my last batch - they've faded to a beige color.    The bars that seemed to do the best job at camoflauging my gray hair were just a medium purple color.  I do like the alkanet and I do feel that it somehow works to hide my gray hair, but I still haven't arrived at the perfect amount to use.  I would love to see pics of your really dark bars and it would be cool if you kept track of how much they lightened up over time.


It is my understanding that rosemary tea as your liquid for your lye will help cover gray in hair.  Now that I think about it, that is why I quit using it in shampoo bars.  It was turning my white hair to a blonde look.  Hubby didn't care for it.


----------



## newbie

Okay, here are my alkanet bars, well one of them anyway. Two different lighting situations. The towel is a light beige color. All my OO was alkanet infused. Is this too dark?


----------



## Kansas Farm Girl

chicklet said:


> I think the rosemary has stopped my hair from falling out. Not totally, of course, but I'm seeing way less hair on the vanity and floor these days compared to when I was using commercial shampoo.



I have noticed far less hair fall out with this recipe also as compared to commercial shampoo. Mine does not contain any additives, just the original recipe as closely as I could create it with the oils I had on hand. I love my hair now.


----------



## Yill

Was thinking about making a shampoo bar but till now I hesitated because of all the people who had no luck creating a good bar. As a beginner in soaping I thought it was probably to early for me to make an attempt at a shampoo bar. But now I have been given hope, thanks Genny!


----------



## Atihcnoc

Hi Genny thank you for sharing your recipe,  this are the qualities of your soap, as you can see the Iodine is to high, this is on of the things that can cause DOS, this high is not good for the soap, as you can see the limit is 70, you have 87.

I make the recipe but change some of the ingredients. Shea butter, Castor oil, Tallow, Lard, Palm Kernel (5%). My Iodine was 57.  I make a small batch (400gms) to see how it works, to the recipe I added 1 tsp of citric acid to avoid the ACV rinse.

The soap was ok, a lot of bubbles, but the hair was to dry that was impossible to be comb in the shower, I don't wanted to add conditioner as I want to see how it will looks when it gets dry. So I just towel dry and wait. I have curly hair, when dry, the hair was soft and easy to put your fingers in, so I did not have to comb. Is fluffy and soft, now I have to wait to see how long it will stay like that, before wash it again. 

Thank you again for sharing your idea and recipe.


----------



## Genny

My regular soap recipe (not shampoo soap) that I have been making for years has an iodine level of 72.  I've never had DOS on any of them or my shampoo bars.  There's more to rancidity than just the Iodine levels.

I've had DOS once in the years that I've been making soap.  It was on a Castile soap that I accidentally cured on cardboard.


----------



## Lindy

Atihcnoc said:


> Hi Genny thank you for sharing your recipe,  this are the qualities of your soap, as you can see the Iodine is to high, this is on of the things that can cause DOS, this high is not good for the soap, as you can see the limit is 70, you have 87.
> 
> I make the recipe but change some of the ingredients. Shea butter, Castor oil, Tallow, Lard, Palm Kernel (5%). My Iodine was 57.  I make a small batch (400gms) to see how it works, to the recipe I added 1 tsp of citric acid to avoid the ACV rinse.
> 
> The soap was ok, a lot of bubbles, but the hair was to dry that was impossible to be comb in the shower, I don't wanted to add conditioner as I want to see how it will looks when it gets dry. So I just towel dry and wait. I have curly hair, when dry, the hair was soft and easy to put your fingers in, so I did not have to comb. Is fluffy and soft, now I have to wait to see how long it will stay like that, before wash it again.
> 
> Thank you again for sharing your idea and recipe.



Interesting post.  I'm sorry her recipe doesn't work for you.  It is obvious your hair would prefer something else.  You also need to keep in mind those numbers are _*guidelines*_ because there is a lot more at play.  Superfat, properties of the oils used.

I'm hoping you will formulate your own recipe that you will enjoy as much as others are enjoying this one.


----------



## ghia61

*Finally made your recipe!*

Thanks for posting this simple recipe. How long does it normally take for your bars to cure? Also, for the sugar, was that a tbsp for your whole batch or ppd? Thanks again! Anxious to try this new bar.


----------



## judymoody

So nice of Genny to share her recipe!

For Atihcnoc, you may want to try that ACV or lemon juice rinse after all.  A teaspoon of citric acid added to your soap recipe is not going to make an appreciable difference in the pH of your soap.  The high pH of CP soap will tend to roughen the hair cuticle unless you follow with something acidic.

CP soap does not work for my hair, unfortunately.  I am a wee bit jealous of those for whom it does work!


----------



## lizflowers42

I just made my second batch of this recipe tonight because I gave away a lot of my first batch and I am down to 1 bar-so I needed to get some curing!


----------



## Atihcnoc

*Genny: *72 doesn't make a big difference but 87 It is possible that can make a difference, I just make an observation. But also believe in our own results. I had been making soap since 3 yrs. ago just for family and friends and never had a bad experience or DOS in my soaps, maybe it is just luck, but I'm very careful of not get it my Iodine in more than 70. 
I apologize if my observation bothers you, that was not mi intention.

*Lindy:* Thank you, I make the recipe following the concept and percentages but change some of the ingredients as I don't have Soybean oil and wanted to try the citric acid as I never heard it can be used in soap. I super-fat 6%.

I made 2 small batches:
The first one I sprinkle the citric acid at trace, that was the first soap I used and didn't work, low lather and  the soap let my hair impossible to be comb. When dry it was soft but dry to the touch, not nice.
The second batch, I dissolved the citric acid in the water/lye mixture, wait to cool down a little bit and add the citric acid so it was very well dissolved in the lye water mixture. I had a great experience with this one, ( I used today) It was possible to comb my hair in the shower, the soap make a gooood lather, very heavy and nice. Get very dry when I rinse it, but again when it was natural dry it is very soft and nice. this one I really like it, and I will use it again.

Hope this can help to others that like me never before had been used citric acid. It makes a big difference (for me) the way this is added to the soap mixture.

But to be fair with Genny, I promise to make her original recipe and tell you the results, at least in my hair.  

*Genny*: Soybean oil is the liquid one, or Crisco, don't want to make mistakes.

*Judymoody:* Thank you for your advice, I will try this with the first batch, maybe it will work.


----------



## lizflowers42

Soybean oil is commonly labeled vegetable oil in the grocery store...very different than Crisco! Unless you get generic vegetable shortening...in that case it's mostly hydrogenated soybean oil.


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## Atihcnoc

Thank you lizflowers42, here in Texas I found soybean oil, but the liquid one not the hydrogenated, I will check again in the supermarket.


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## kdaniels8811

I am on my second batch of this shampoo bar.  Of 5people, one did not like it, everyone else loves it, including me.  I mixed the sugar and citric acid in a little water I held out and mixed it in after mixing lye and oils.


----------



## stargazer44

I have yet to try shampoo bars.  And I am nervous.  But I am considering trying this recipe.  I have really fine but thick hair, and if I don't wash daily now it is super oily.  I am nervous I am going to have issues with a bar.... but SO want to get away from commercial shampoo!  For those that don't like bars, why don't you like them?  I guess I should bite the bullet and try this recipe!  I like that it doesn't require a vinegar rinse - something I don't want to do!  The high conditioning factor doesn't cause more oiliness though?  (Sorry if my questions have obvious answers or are silly   I am ignorant of shampoo bars and have been researching like crazy lately but not finding much positive information!)


----------



## Yill

Ordered all the missing ingredients last night and now waiting for delivery!
I'm not going to use the soybean oil, but put a 10% jojoba oil instead. Also read about clay absorbing product build up and because my husband uses gels and what not in his hair I thought I'll give it a try. Going to scent it with rosemary eo, tea tree eo and lavender eo. All for the benefits there is said they have. 

I have fine hair but a lot of it and have to wash my hair every other day cause it gets oily at the roots. The ends of my hair tend to get dry so I hope this shampoo bar is the right one for my hair! (bit worried about the high conditioning though)


----------



## dimitris

I just washed my hair with a soap bar I made (following this recipe).

I can't believe what I have been missing so long. My hair feels a lot more natural, soft and healthy! Everyone I have given this to feels the same!

Thanks Lindy!


----------



## jeremmy

This recipe didnt work for me. I have oily hair...although not as oilier as it sounds like you have. My husband has normal hair and it didnt work for him either. Made it oily. However, im pretty sure there were other people with oily hair that had great success with this recipe! 



jcatblum said:


> My hair is super oily. You can begin seeing slick spots in less than 24 hours. I have tried every type of shampoo. ACV rinse helps some but not enough.  Anyone with MAJOR oily hair use this recipe?



I have thin hair with oily roots. At first my hair felt all tangled and weird. Once I used an acv rinse it wasnt tangled anymore and it made it super soft. However, it not only felt oily, but it looked oily. Not in a weird, measured-something-wrong way. Just more so than other shampoos. It was lank too. I used it for 2 weeks and it just got worse and worse until i finally stopped testing it. My husband used it twice (normal, thick-ish hair) and it made his oily too. I dont say this to put down the recipe AT ALL, just to tell you our experience. I was pretty bummed, but i expected it, as very few formulas work for me. It seems like there are others with similar types of hair as i have who had great success with it though. 



stargazer44 said:


> I have yet to try shampoo bars.  And I am nervous.  But I am considering trying this recipe.  I have really fine but thick hair, and if I don't wash daily now it is super oily.  I am nervous I am going to have issues with a bar.... but SO want to get away from commercial shampoo!  For those that don't like bars, why don't you like them?  I guess I should bite the bullet and try this recipe!  I like that it doesn't require a vinegar rinse - something I don't want to do!  The high conditioning factor doesn't cause more oiliness though?  (Sorry if my questions have obvious answers or are silly   I am ignorant of shampoo bars and have been researching like crazy lately but not finding much positive information!)


----------



## Theda

I just made a batch using strong coffee as the liquid with the thinking that it might help a little to cover the gray......we'll see......I'm really not too overly optimistic. And I forgot to put the sugar in. Drat! So we'll see how much difference that makes in the suds department while we're at it. I did like the original recipe.


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## kdaniels8811

Each persons hair is different when it comes to shampoo.  I have tried several shampoo bars which made my hair greasy and lank while others swore by them.  This one works for my hair, not sure why.


----------



## leLuckyDuck

Oh boy... I did something wrong. Followed the recipe including the sugar and citric acid (added to oil prior). Soaped at room temp, CPOP. I still have a goopy mess after 24 hours. Going to try again omitting the sugar and citric acid. Or maybe I should insert the additives at the end?


----------



## Theda

leLuckyDuck said:


> Oh boy... I did something wrong. Followed the recipe including the sugar and citric acid (added to oil prior). Soaped at room temp, CPOP. I still have a goopy mess after 24 hours. Going to try again omitting the sugar and citric acid. Or maybe I should insert the additives at the end?



Could it be the citric acid? I don't recall that being in the recipe. I'm thinking it could lower the pH too much and mess things up. I've never heard of using it in CP soap before, but then I'm still learning.....or RE-learning since I'm on information overload and can't remember half of what I've already learned.


----------



## cursivearts

Shampoo bars were one of the original reasons I started soaping.  I recently tweaked my original recipe, thanks to many of the comments found here.  I decided to try it without ACV and have been using it for a week now.  I have fine hair, but I have a lot of it.  It's straight, tends to lay flat and starts to look oily and limp on the second day. With my new shampoo bar, it feels clean but not stripped (no strawlike feel and no difficulty brushing afterward), it feels soft when it's dry, and most of all I have more volume, which makes me super happy.  I am presently waiting on a second, conditioning formulation to cure for my husband.  He tends to have dry skin and hair.  Will update with results.

Edited to add: I just wanted to jump in on the conversation because I love shampoo bars so much.


----------



## lizflowers42

leLuckyDuck said:


> Oh boy... I did something wrong. Followed the recipe including the sugar and citric acid (added to oil prior). Soaped at room temp, CPOP. I still have a goopy mess after 24 hours. Going to try again omitting the sugar and citric acid. Or maybe I should insert the additives at the end?



Hmm, interesting. I added my citric acid to my lye mixture with my beer and banana slushie concoction in place of water (which is like adding sugar...) and have no problems.  Then again, I just CP'ed it.


----------



## ocean_soul

So, as soon as I get over my cold I think I'm going to have another crack at making a shampoo bar inspired by this thread.  I tried a version of this awhile back and it was okay, not enough bubbles for my taste but I left out the sugar so that's why.  So now I'm thinking of making my next batch with buttermilk and banana but I also want to add sodium lactate to make the bar harder since my current bars get goopy really easily.  

Does anyone think that'll be a problem, ddding sodium lactate to buttermilk and banana lye mixture?


----------



## Rachelmf

I've tried my shampoo bar now.  It's basically the same as the original recipe, but I used sunflower oil rather than soybean.  This is my first experience with a shampoo bar, but I am pleased.  I guess it took a couple of days to adjust, but my hair wasn't that bad during those days.  I have fine hair that is probably pretty average in terms of oiliness and I don't have to wash my hair any more than usual with this shampoo bar.  I also don't need conditioner or an ACV rinse.  The lather is pretty good, would probably be better, but I have hard water.


----------



## three_little_fishes

I plugged everything in using the original recipe. It's my first time using soapcalc and it says cleansing is 0. Am I doing something wrong? I've only ever used recipes that were already calculated for me up until now. *blush*

I found my answer within the thread. Hard to sit and ready 26 pages while everyone is awake!


----------



## Paintguru

Well I tried this recipe yesterday.  40% Olive, 30% Avocado, 20% Castor, 10% Shea Butter.  Did 1:1:1 Peppermint, Lavender, Eucalyptus EO.  Added 1 tsp sugar, 1 tsp ascorbic acid, and 1 tsp clay per pound oil.  No color.  Actually solidified pretty quickly, cut after 18 hours.  We'll see how it turns out.


----------



## babysoap

Has anyone with oil hair tried this? What's it like?


----------



## Lotus

babysoap said:


> Has anyone with oil hair tried this? What's it like?




I wish I had oily hair, but alas, mine is VERY dry. I so wish I could be of help. : (


----------



## Lotus

Paintguru said:


> Well I tried this recipe yesterday.  40% Olive, 30% Avocado, 20% Castor, 10% Shea Butter.  Did 1:1:1 Peppermint, Lavender, Eucalyptus EO.  Added 1 tsp sugar, 1 tsp ascorbic acid, and 1 tsp clay per pound oil.  No color.  Actually solidified pretty quickly, cut after 18 hours.  We'll see how it turns out.




Oooh! This made me think, that adding brown sugar would be fun.!! I'm going to look that up.


----------



## DeeAnna

Why are folks adding an acid (citric, ascorbic) to their CP soap recipes? From my point of view, all you are doing is increasing your superfat because the lye will preferentially react with the acid, leaving more fat unsaponified. If I'm off the mark, please enlighten me! :smile:


----------



## dagmar88

DeeAnna said:


> Why are folks adding an acid (citric, ascorbic) to their CP soap recipes? From my point of view, all you are doing is increasing your superfat because the lye will preferentially react with the acid, leaving more fat unsaponified. If I'm off the mark, please enlighten me! :smile:




You're absolutely right


----------



## three_little_fishes

I did this last night and it's so pretty and white! I didn't think to add sugar though. My husband will be using it after cure and doesn't have much hair anyway. Should I remelt and add sugar or just let it be? I take it as a personal preference sort of thing, but thought I would ask to make sure.


----------



## dagmar88

Sugar just enhances the bubbles a little bit, so no problem at all


----------



## three_little_fishes

dagmar88 said:


> Sugar just enhances the bubbles a little bit, so no problem at all



Thanks! Between the military haircut and balding, there isn't much for him to soap up anyway.


----------



## dagmar88

Awww! That does give you a good reason to start experimenting with (cream) shaving soap soon


----------



## three_little_fishes

dagmar88 said:


> Awww! That does give you a good reason to start experimenting with (cream) shaving soap soon



I'm trying a cinnamon shave soap very soon! We bought some at a market and loved it. I wonder how many batches I'll let seize up before I figure out how to do it. Lol!


----------



## Lindy

No you are on the mark as far as I can tell....  Of course I could be wrong, but from my understanding citric acid neutralizes the lye...


----------



## dagmar88

three_little_fishes said:


> I'm trying a cinnamon shave soap very soon! We bought some at a market and loved it. I wonder how many batches I'll let seize up before I figure out how to do it. Lol!



:smile: You'll be fine! Just be careful with the cinnamon; it can really irritate your skin. Use a very small amount, 0.5% at most.
There are nice body safe cinnamon FOs, but I don't know of any straight ones to use at he normal %.
Pumpkin Apple Butter from NG is so good, I could drink that stuff :smile:


----------



## leLuckyDuck

Lindy said:


> No you are on the mark as far as I can tell....  Of course I could be wrong, but from my understanding citric acid neutralizes the lye...



That exactly what I was thinking but figured that it was working for others so I must be wrong. I am definitely going to retry now!


----------



## three_little_fishes

dagmar88 said:


> :smile: You'll be fine! Just be careful with the cinnamon; it can really irritate your skin. Use a very small amount, 0.5% at most.
> There are nice body safe cinnamon FOs, but I don't know of any straight ones to use at he normal %.
> Pumpkin Apple Butter from NG is so good, I could drink that stuff :smile:



I've used it with an EO before (what we've bought from another soap maker before). The reason we liked it so much was because of how the cinnamon makes your hair stand up before a shave. The formula that she gave us works out to 0.4% EO.


----------



## dagmar88




----------



## lizflowers42

Lindy said:


> No you are on the mark as far as I can tell....  Of course I could be wrong, but from my understanding citric acid neutralizes the lye...



I added it because people say it lowers the ph of the bar and helps in the same way that a vinegar rinse does...So I did it and the reformulation really works well for my curly hair.  I don't want to mess with a good thing


----------



## Lindy

lozflowers you can achieve the same thing with a higher SF if you wanted to bypass the citric acid...


----------



## lizflowers42

Lindy said:


> lozflowers you can achieve the same thing with a higher SF if you wanted to bypass the citric acid...



I'm afraid to!  I have a jar of citric acid that I got from the health food store, and I don't really make bath bombs anymore, so I'm going to keep using the recipe as is   It's only a teaspoon at a time.


----------



## Lindy

Oh I wasn't suggesting that you not use it, I was just offering an option is all.


----------



## Paintguru

It would be interesting to see if it is the simple additional superfatting that produces a better rinse or the resulting salt created by the acid/lye reaction that helps out...perhaps by locally softening the water????


----------



## Lindy

Oh good point Chris.  Water hardness has a lot to do with lather.  The harder the water, the harder it is to get a good lather.


----------



## happymom

I HP’d the original shampoo bar, although I overpoured the OO ): by 1.5 ounces. I adjusted the lye accordingly. I have been using it for about two weeks and I really like it, I was concerned because of the extra OO but it seems fine. I broke up the batch and made a few bars scented with different FOs and EOs – incl lemongrass which is what I am using now and it smells divine. I let them cure for a week and the bars are a little softer than some of my other HP bars. 

I have thick short hair, not curly or oily, and I color the roots every two weeks so the ends can be dry. I usually need a conditioner to get a comb through it. The shampoo bar takes a bit longer to rinse it out thoroughly than commercial shampoo does but I did not need any other rinse or conditioner. After using the shampoo bar, my hair is very shiny and it has a little more "tooth" to it - easier to style and it holds better. It makes sense that you wouldn’t need conditioner because of the moisturizing properties of the soap. No more commercial shampoo for me!

This was my first time using a shampoo bar ever and for me it worked best when I rubbed it between my hands for a few minutes and worked up a lot of wet lather, then transferred the lather to my scalp (instead of putting the soap on my scalp/hair). I usually have to do that twice to cover my scalp. At first I tried to lather it up directly on the head and it left a little residue feeling (although this may have been from the extra oil). So in terms of selling a shampoo bar, would you put directions on it or does it seems obvious how to use it? 

I love the idea of not having to travel with liquid shampoo – esp if it can double as a body bar. Thanks so much for sharing the recipe and everybody’s comments, this has been a great thread!


----------



## ocean_soul

Just wanted to say that I finally got to try out my banana buttermilk shampoo bars that were inspired by this thread.  The results are pretty awesome.  It doesn't lather up quite as nicely as the other shampoo bars I make but with a bit of extra effort it works beautifully.  After I had rinsed out my hair I could immediately notice the difference, my hair wasn't sticky/tangly like it normally is after using a shampoo bar.  And while I did use a little bit of ACV rinse I don't think I needed it very much.  I'll just have to wait and see how it's performance is over time.


----------



## paillo

Oh wow am I stupid. So I've been making small batches of experimental shampoo bars, and wound up with several I'm really happy with. So last night I HP'd a 4.5 lb batch of one - with some *really* expensive exotic oils, citric acid, a number of additives. Well, I sez to myself, what could hurt by adding a little DL panthenol, silk amino acids and honeyquat to the milk after the cook? Hah, well, plenty can happen. It slightly scorched - not much, but it's discolored enough I wouldn't want to sell it. Ah well, live and learn. Too bad it's my first bigg-ish batch 

But... even though it's way too soon to use, needs curing, I tried it out today. Omigod. My hair has never, ever been so soft and silky -- full bodied, the waves more like curls. The lather was amazing. The litsea and lemongrass EOs were intoxicating. I put a little conditioner just on the ends. This stuff is totally astonishing. I have very thick, oily, very wavy hair below shoulder length. 

Problem is I don't know what scorched. Guessing it's the silk amino acids, which I have in powder form. Back to tiny experimental batches for me to isolate what can't take the heat. But I am soo, soo encouraged.  Shampoo bars are simply totally the best thing since sliced bread. I'm HPing a batch with a lot of oil-infused alkanet root powder right now, will take pics after it's cut and then after it's cured to compare colors. Hopefully will be brightening for grey hair, can't wait to find out!


----------



## Lotus

Wow! So, this would not be a good bar for my hair. It is VERY dry, thin, and very curly hair. But, it sounds like it would be great for my cousin. . . extremely thick (thickest I've ever seen), wavy, very red hair. I've always wondered if I could find something perfect for her poor hair. : (


----------



## Kansas Farm Girl

My hair has been dry the last few years and after starting to use this shampoo it seems not to be nearly as dry. It has the waves/curls back that it had lost when it started drying out. I have body again. I love it.


----------



## newbie

I tried my alkanet bars, once at just after 3 weeks and then again a couple days ago. I wash my hair twice a week for many years. I now have kind of crazy body to my hair, but it looks almost fly away and a bit unkempt. Not silky really so I may have to try my egg and cream shampoo bar to see if I need a bit more moisturizing. I have to say I was surprised at the lather- I was expecting it to be pretty low but it's nice. Takes a few times to get enough for my hair which is below my shoulders. I will keep trying it as it ages but will have to do a wash with the moisturizing bar for comparison. I'm impressed overall!


----------



## Jonesgirl

I made the shampoo soap two days ago. its still quite soft but i imagine it will harder with time.





i made them for my husband, he wanted me to make him shampoo bars. I thought i would do them round to make them easier to hold.
thankyou for this recipe. <3


----------



## Cindiq4u

I just had to play. I decided to finally try this shampoo bar. Just got done putting it in the mold.
I used Beer "Sierra Nevada, Glissade" in place of water. I've never worked with beer and WOW what a learning curve.
Mixed a bit of EO of Grapfruit and Orange "good in beer at least". Had a bit of Ricing, yet it's resting quietly without any extra warmth.
Almost seized up, yet whoosh I think it will be ok "I think LOL". Can't wait to see what we have in 24. Soap is always an adventure. Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread, it has really helped reading all your ideas and feedback... Cheers "It's noon and I believe I can drink the rest of that remaining beer now" 8)


----------



## Prism75

How much citric acid would you recommend in this recipe? I have thick, curly, hair, so I think this would be a GREAT recipe to try!


----------



## kdaniels8811

I used about a teaspoon per pound of soap, I was not exact.  Tossed in some rosemary and blended it up.  I do not need to use a vinegar rinse, despite having very hard water.


----------



## debbi

FWIW- My best friend is a master spinner, weaver and dyer. She also makes their soap.  I am a baby at all this, though middle-aged.  When I was having problems with my first shampoo bar results on my hair, I went to her for help. She was most concerned on the ACV formula, knowing how it works with protein fibers (human hair is technically a protein fiber). She said the common recipe for the ACV mixture is usually made too strong. 2 tbsp. to a 16 oz empty bottle and topped with water is normally strong enough. 

Also, when one lives in hard water areas like we do, the ACV can either leave the hair gummy, greasy and/or fly-away if used after washing one's hair with a shampoo bar (though some do not have this problem). I tried her suggestion of not using the ACV mixture more than once a week, and **before** washing my hair. I squirted a little on, washed up, rinsed out the ACV and then finished up by washing my hair with a shampoo bar. It worked! No more gummy, greasy hair that had static-cling of the worst sort. My hair felt almost dry and squeaky when rinsing, though the soap washed out well, unlike before when I used the ACV rinse afterwards. I feared I would never get my comb through my mass of hair after getting dressed. My comb glided through my hair, even the fine-toothed wooden one.

I have thick, oily hair and scalp. I have always lived in hard water areas (forest/mountains). I tried for years to wash my hair very little on the common theory that it makes your hair less oily. For me, it is wrong. After months of trying to wash once a week or so, I gave up and stayed with at least every other day. We are all different, that is for sure.


----------



## lizflowers42

Prism75 said:


> How much citric acid would you recommend in this recipe? I have thick, curly, hair, so I think this would be a GREAT recipe to try!



just 1 tsp per pound of oil.  Also, since you have curly hair, add a bit of clay to it, at least that works for my curls


----------



## newlycrunchy

Must try this- people have been asking for shampoo bars.


----------



## flavapor

I made this bar a few months ago and have just started using it a few weeks ago.  Initially, I loved the way my hair felt, soft, shiny, smooth.   I did do an acv rinse, but the fourth and fifth time I washed it,  my hair looked greasy.  It doesn't feel greasy but looks greasy.  I don't use a conditioner after the ACV since the first wash, and I don't use product on my hair.  What do you think is going on?

Need less heavy oils?
Stop ACV rinse?
any advice, I loved it at first and want to get it back to that hair again.  My hair is dry by nature, I used to shampoo it every 5 days before this bar and in the first few washes, now I have to do it every few days


----------



## ghia61

Flavapor - there was a 3-4 week adjustment period for me. It's been several months since I've used commercial hair products. I use the shampoo bar once a week or so, working it into my scalp, not really all over my hair. My hair is no longer a tangled mess when I get up in the morning and is a lot easier to get a comb through. I've also noticed there's a lot less hair in my comb after washing it. I do rinse my hair (just water) in the shower almost daily.


----------



## leLuckyDuck

I have fine wavy/soft curly hair but there is tons of it so its thick and prone to frizz. I used this 3 times about 3 days apart and found my hair quite unmanageable... Almost like it was dirty from being in the dusty wind. I'm disappointed it didn't fare well for my hair type


----------



## flavapor

ghia61 said:


> Flavapor - there was a 3-4 week adjustment period for me. It's been several months since I've used commercial hair products. I use the shampoo bar once a week or so, working it into my scalp, not really all over my hair. My hair is no longer a tangled mess when I get up in the morning and is a lot easier to get a comb through. I've also noticed there's a lot less hair in my comb after washing it. I do rinse my hair (just water) in the shower almost daily.


 
I just washed my hair with water and ACV the other day to see if it helped, and it did a little, still looks greasy.  Love the feel though.  I am getting my hair cut next week and I am thinking maybe my layers are just to long and it may not be the shampoo bar at all.  Gonna keep using it and see what happens.


----------



## hoegarden

I think that this formula is not very suitable for my hair either. The first wash is marvelous, but somehow, I still feel my scalp is not clean enough. After a few washes, the hair start to lump and cluster together cos being oily. I have to wash my hair everyday, as I live in a tropical city, my hair is sticking with dust every now and then.

Nevertheless, thanks Genny for sharing. I will adjust my own formula slowly based on this experience.


----------



## Lindy

I have long hair (shoulder length) and I absolutely love my shampoo bars....


----------



## CCa1892

I have long hair to the middle of my back, and love these shampoo bars. My husband tried it for the first time over the weekend 
and is he really happy with the "squeaky clean" feeling afterwords. We both used reduced amounts of conditioner-which now seems to go a lot further...
I have used ACV for years (mix one part water), as a last "leave in" rinse for super soft (course curly) hair, which I wear naturally curly or curls blown out). 

I made the bars colored with a 3 Tablespoons of Woad infused olive oil with 1 Tablespoon of Indigo infused olive oil (added at trace).
Bar color is holding, but I'm not sure (yet) if it has an affect on keeping our salt and pepper locks free from yellowing.
I didn't have Soybean oil for Genny's recipe so I subbed it with additional olive oil. 

I need to indulge in one more interesting finding. After a month's use, I decided to try bottled shampoo as a comparison
and found, on-instant my hair reacted with a straw like feel during lathering. This was an unexpected surprise.
I immediately rinsed my hair out and shampooed with the shampoo bar- we really love this formula- Thanks Genny and Lindy!


----------



## Lindy

I am so thrilled that people chose to start experimenting and are having success.  Great job!


----------



## kdaniels8811

Hint - try rinsing with vinegar (1 T diluted in 2 quarts water) before washing if you have hard water.


----------



## paillo

One interesting aside to the shampoo bars. For a doggie bar I carefully researched, then modified the recipe with Emu, a lot of avocado, colloidal oatmeal and I can't remember what else right now 'cuz I'm a little rattled.

So the real test for the doggie bar. I took the doggie out an hour ago for a last pee-pee walk. Could smell skunk but couldn't pinpoint it. Aha, under the tree where the mockingbirds have a nest. Of course the skunk got too close. Of course the mockingbirds went after the skunk. Of course the skunk sprayed. And, dogs being dogs, of course the dog rolled in the source of the smell before I could stop her. EWWWEEEEWWWW!!!!! Nothing like an emergency bath past bedtime. Of course I had run out of all other doggie shampoo 'cuz I've only been bathing her with my doggie bar. Believe me, I woulda gone for the strong stuff if I'd had it. Amazingly, it did a good job of dissipating the stench. Still, she goes to the river for a swim tomorrow, then another bath.

Stay tuned, will report back after tomorrow's bath. Lindy and Genny, who coulda known this thread would lead in bizarre directions?


----------



## Deana73

how do u get soya bean oil? can i change to other oil like grapeseed??


----------



## Lindy

Pailo what a fab story!  Love it.....

Deana I would suggest trying it.


----------



## ghia61

Lindy said:


> I have long hair (shoulder length) and I absolutely love my shampoo bars....



Lindy, Not asking for your exact recipe, but I'm curious. How close is Genny's wonderful bar to your shampoo bar?


----------



## Lindy

There are some differences.....


----------



## Hazel

paillo said:


> . Of course the skunk sprayed. And, dogs being dogs, of course the dog rolled in the source of the smell before I could stop her. EWWWEEEEWWWW!!!!!



I know this isn't funny but I just cracked up while reading your post. Probably because I've had a similar experience. It was long enough ago that I can now laugh about it.

Apologies for interrupting the thread.


----------



## lizflowers42

Deana73 said:


> how do u get soya bean oil? can i change to other oil like grapeseed??



Go to the oil section at your local grocery-pick up a bottle of vegetable oil-if the ingredients list 100% soybean oil, you are good to go


----------



## sabon

Recently I formulated a shampoo bar( high conditioning). It worked extremely well on my hair. We have soft water. My sister  when on a visit tried the shampoo bar and loved it. But sadly, 2 days later when she tried the same bar at her place she had powdery buildup and tangled up hair the very next day.  The only difference between the two applications was she has very hard water at her place. So I guessed my formulation was fit for soft water but for hard water needed to be modified. 
  Anybody with ideas for natural stuff to add into shampoo bar to work with hard water?


----------



## dcornett

Something new to try...I'm so excited!!
Thanks Genny...and Lindy


----------



## Skatergirl46

sabon said:


> Recently I formulated a shampoo bar( high conditioning). It worked extremely well on my hair. We have soft water. My sister  when on a visit tried the shampoo bar and loved it. But sadly, 2 days later when she tried the same bar at her place she had powdery buildup and tangled up hair the very next day.  The only difference between the two applications was she has very hard water at her place. So I guessed my formulation was fit for soft water but for hard water needed to be modified.
> Anybody with ideas for natural stuff to add into shampoo bar to work with hard water?



Interesting. Waiting to hear about a solution to the hard water issue. The water where I live is very hard.


----------



## Paintguru

Skatergirl46 said:


> Interesting. Waiting to hear about a solution to the hard water issue. The water where I live is very hard.



Wonder if doing a combo salt bar/shampoo bar would be the solution.  Salt is what is used in water softeners, so a salt bar would act as a localized water softener.  Not sure if you'd need to go to full salt bar levels with it or not.


----------



## chicklet

I've wondered the same thing about salt bars as shampoo bars. A friend is anxious for me to experiment with that idea - she says when she loves the way her hair feels after swimming in the ocean and that she doesn't shampoo her hair when she's on vacation at the beach because her hair behaves better with just the salt water. Knowing that salt kills lather except when using coconut oil, and I can't imagine using that much coconut oil in a shampoo, I can't quite wrap my head around a salt shampoo bar. But I love experimenting so I do think I'll try it. I'll report back the results.


----------



## Kansas Farm Girl

Many water softeners use salt to condition the water and remove the minerals that cause it to be "hard". I wonder if some salt added to the bar would assist in the same way? I know soap does not lather the same in hard vs. soft water. My hubby can tell when it is time for the soften to regenerate just by the way the soap lathers/feels in the shower.


----------



## Bama

Genny said:


> I've never been a fan of CP shampoo bars because immediately they'd leave my hair all dried out & straw-like.  So I only used Syndet bars and never looked back.
> But a post Lindy made here http://www.soapmakingforum.com/f19/how-basic-shampoo-bar-recipe-30757/  helped me see the error of my ways.
> 
> So, I just want to thank Lindy for giving me that "duh" moment so I could create a shampoo bar that I've only used once, but I love it already.  I imagine that after some cure time, it's going to feel so much more lovely.
> I used it this morning and there was absolutely no "stripping" feel to it & it felt so conditioning that I used it on the rest of my body as well   My brush went right through my hair and now it feels so silky & smooth.
> 
> I'm feeling so good about it, I'm going to share the recipe I created:
> Water as percent of oil weight: 35%
> Superfat: 6%
> 
> Avocado Oil: 30%
> Castor Oil: 10%
> Olive Oil: 40%
> Shea Butter: 10%
> Soybean Oil: 10%
> 
> I infused chamomile in all my oils, not in the shea though.  Plus I use a TBSP of sugar in my water for added bubbles.
> 
> For scent, I used Tea Tree EO, Peppermint EO & Lavender EO at a 1:1:1 ratio.
> 
> If anyone decides to try it, please let me know how you feel about it.


 I MADE THis recipe but I tweaked it a bit and just love it. Really good Shampoo bar
I used OO 40%
Avacado oil 30 %
Castor oil 10%
Shea Butter 10%
Sunflower seed oil 10%
I superfated at 8 %
I used Tea Tree EO and peppermint fO cause I didn't have it in EO


----------



## Paintguru

chicklet said:


> I've wondered the same thing about salt bars as shampoo bars. A friend is anxious for me to experiment with that idea - she says when she loves the way her hair feels after swimming in the ocean and that she doesn't shampoo her hair when she's on vacation at the beach because her hair behaves better with just the salt water. Knowing that salt kills lather except when using coconut oil, and I can't imagine using that much coconut oil in a shampoo, I can't quite wrap my head around a salt shampoo bar. But I love experimenting so I do think I'll try it. I'll report back the results.



Wonder if a straight 50/50 coconut/olive oil salt bar would give you the best of both worlds.  Don't really need to worry about drying out the hair if you superfat it enough.


----------



## chicklet

Well, after I typed that about experimenting with salt bars as shampoo bars, I headed to the shower to get ready for work.  While there, I decided to just go ahead and begin my experimenting now and used one of my salt bars as shampoo.  It's from my first batch of salt bars so it's at least 7 months old and I can't remember for sure how much salt - I'll check the recipe later but it was at least 60% of the weight of the oils with a SF of either 18 or 20%. I use all coconut oil now but these would have had some castor oil and avocado oil in them.  I lathered, rinsed, repeated.  The lather was awesome.  When I got done, my hair felt a little tangled up like it felt the first month of using shampoo bars so I sprayed on some diluted vinegar.  I did not apply any gel or mousse like I usually do.  OMG my hair is so soft but it has lots of body and it's very manageable.  Usually when I use a product that softens it this much it just flattens out and has no body.  I'm anxious to do some real experimenting now!


----------



## sabon

That is wonderful chicklet! Since I have run out of my salt bars, I will reformulate with salt and comeback with the results.

Thankyou all!


----------



## Skatergirl46

I'm reading the responses from all of you who have tried these. I'm interested in trying some but I have pretty fine hair. I have a decent amount of it and it's shoulder length. I also have hard water here. I saw where someone mentioned the way their hair feels when they go into the ocean. I'm a scuba diver and have spent a lot of time in the ocean, and it makes my hair feel nasty! My hair gets tangled and feels very un-conditioned when I get in salt water. It's pretty unmanageable until I wash and condition it. So the bottom line for me is that I'm not sure where to go with a shampoo bar for this hair and the water that we have.


----------



## roseb

Genny said:


> I get mine at soapers choice.  It's $18.35 for 7 lbs.
> http://www.soaperschoice.com/cgi-so...eb_store.cgi?query_price_low_range=0&cart_id=




Thanks for the website.  Coconut oil is much cheaper there than where I can get it locally...even with the shipping charges!


----------



## ghia61

SKATERGIRL - I have fine, shoulder length hair that was always frizzy, no matter what moisturizing, conditioning commercial formula I used. After going detergent and silicone free for awhile, using shampoo bars, with occasional ACV rinses, my hair doesn't frizz, it's much more manageable and I finally have wash and go hair. If you go for it, you will have a couple weeks you'll hate it, but it gets better. Perhaps you might want to purchase a bar and give it a try before trying to formulate something you'll like for yourself.


----------



## Sapwn

I wanted to make a shampoo for a long time now, but since I am not comfortable with the liquid shampoo recipes I have never tried yet. Now that I found this thread I will definitely try to make this shampoo bar in the weekend. 
 
Thank you for sharing!




The thing I love in this forum is that it is full of women :-D:-D:-D


----------



## MOGal70

> I have fine, shoulder length hair that was always frizzy, no matter what moisturizing, conditioning commercial formula I used.


 ghia61, you have my hair!!! I just got the ingredients that I was missing to make the poo bars, hope I have time to night to do a HP batch. AND I hope I have the same results as you, because I couldn't hate my hair any more than I already do!


----------



## Skatergirl46

ghia61 said:


> SKATERGIRL - I have fine, shoulder length hair that was always frizzy, no matter what moisturizing, conditioning commercial formula I used. After going detergent and silicone free for awhile, using shampoo bars, with occasional ACV rinses, my hair doesn't frizz, it's much more manageable and I finally have wash and go hair. If you go for it, you will have a couple weeks you'll hate it, but it gets better. Perhaps you might want to purchase a bar and give it a try before trying to formulate something you'll like for yourself.



I have never used ACV to rinse my hair. Is this something I would do before I use the shampoo bar or after? 

I'm going to PM you.


----------



## ojidanowe1

nanashousesoap said:


> I made a 1 lb batch of this recipe in the crockpot last night.  I followed the recipe but used 1/2 aloe vera gel &  1/2 distilled water for the lye mixture and added honey at trace.  I cut & tested it today and I'M LOVE LOVE LOVING IT!  My hair is thin and baby fine and usually lays flat to my head unless I load it up with root lifter before I blow dry.  NOT THIS TIME THOUGH!  Awesome recipe, Genny!  Thanks for sharing!



how much honey did you add?  I have hair like yours and it's so hard to find just the right shampoo. i have been using a bar i bought and i wish i could duplicate it. it's perfect for my hair. so hoping this recipe here will do the same...  thanks


----------



## nanashousesoap

I'm not sure what happened to my bars - but my batch went rancid and I had to toss it.


----------



## Sapwn

Bama said:


> I used OO 40%
> Avacado oil 30 %
> Castor oil 10%
> Shea Butter 10%
> Sunflower seed oil 10%
> I superfated at 8 %


 

Dear Bama, I followed exactly this recipe but my bar is too soft.
Is this meant to be a soft bar?


----------



## Relle

Sapwn said:


> The thing I love in this forum is that it is full of women :-D:-D:-D


 
Are you sure ?


----------



## Sapwn

Relle9 said:


> Are you sure ?


 

Well, compared to the other forums that I follow, the straight razor place and the hunting forum, where you don’t meet a female for months, here it is indeed full of women


----------



## innerdiva73

Sapwn said:


> Dear Bama, I followed exactly this recipe but my bar is too soft.
> Is this meant to be a soft bar?



I did a similar beer poo recipe and I substituted 1.2% of the olive oil with Stearic Acid (Veggie based).  Very good lather.


----------



## Sapwn

innerdiva73 said:


> I did a similar beer poo recipe and I substituted 1.2% of the olive oil with Stearic Acid (Veggie based).  Very good lather.


 

If only you have posted this 3 days ago  I would have followed.


Anyway, since I am not satisfied with this shampoo bar I will repeat it with CP this time and by adding some stearic acid.

But are you sure it is only 1.2% ?
Why not 5% for example?


----------



## Bama

Sapwn said:


> Dear Bama, I followed exactly this recipe but my bar is too soft.
> Is this meant to be a soft bar?


 Just saw this. No my bar was very hard.  I do use a water discount in every soap I make though.  Whatever amt of lye I use I only double the oz. for water.   I am about to make another batch next week.  I will be glad to pm you the recipe tomorrow I use for a 3 lb batch I use if you want. Just let me know. I am going to be gone all day today and need to get off the pc and get going


----------



## Sapwn

Bama said:


> I am about to make another batch next week.  I will be glad to pm you the recipe tomorrow I use for a 3 lb batch I use if you want. Just let me know.


 
i would appreciate this very much.
Thank you!


----------



## innerdiva73

Sapwn said:


> If only you have posted this 3 days ago  I would have followed.
> 
> 
> Anyway, since I am not satisfied with this shampoo bar I will repeat it with CP this time and by adding some stearic acid.
> 
> But are you sure it is only 1.2% ?
> Why not 5% for example?



Stearic acid can hinder your lather qualities and I try to add just enough to harden it just a bit.  Sodium Lactate helps harden as well and also has a little preserving quality to it.  The recommended amount is 1TBSP per ounce of oil.

Correction:  1 Teaspoon per pound of Oil


----------



## Sapwn

Julie thank you so much for providing me with the exact recipe you used for the shampoo bar.

Your recipe had 2% more lye than mine and 25% less water than mine.

Now everything is clear regarding my failure in this batch. 

I still cannot understand why my soap calculator fails in this particular recipe. I have done dozens of batches and it didn’t failed once. In this recipe it insists on giving me wrong amounts of lye and water. roblem:


----------



## Bama

Maybe it is the percentage of superfat?  I use Summerbeemeadow lye calculator and it has the section that will recalculate your recipe to fit your mold. Has been very helpful and simple for me


----------



## Sapwn

Superfat percentage was also 8% in my first and failed batch.

After seeing the recipe you mailed me, I repeated mine with 2% more lye and 24% less water. 
It came out perfect.

I will let it cure for about a month, time to finish my comercial shampoo, and then I will give it a try.

I will wait until Christmas for the first batch. If it dries outs and hardens a lot I will use it, if not I will throw it away.


Thanks again Julie. I wouldn't have made it without your help!


----------



## scrubbadubdub

Just tried out my shampoo bar this morning. So far so good  
Didn't use any conditioner or acv. Hair is soft but I can't say much else since I didn't do much with it today.
Thanks for sharing!!


----------



## Bama

Sapwn said:


> Superfat percentage was also 8% in my first and failed batch.
> 
> After seeing the recipe you mailed me, I repeated mine with 2% more lye and 24% less water.
> It came out perfect.
> 
> I will let it cure for about a month, time to finish my comercial shampoo, and then I will give it a try.
> 
> I will wait until Christmas for the first batch. If it dries outs and hardens a lot I will use it, if not I will throw it away.
> 
> 
> Thanks again Julie. I wouldn't have made it without your help!


 
So glad to hear that.  I find my hair so manageable using this recipe.  Next week I will be able to make more. I am down to two bars. Let me know how you like it.


----------



## DeeAnna

"...recommended amount is 1TBSP per ounce of oil...."

InnerDiva -- Do you mean per OUNCE or per POUND? Per ounce is a lot of sodium lactate!


----------



## innerdiva73

DeeAnna said:


> "...recommended amount is 1TBSP per ounce of oil...."
> 
> InnerDiva -- Do you mean per OUNCE or per POUND? Per ounce is a lot of sodium lactate!



Usage rate: .5% - 4%, or 1 tsp per pound of oils.  
Sorry for the typo.  I meant Teaspoon per pound of oil!!


----------



## ojidanowe1

Bama said:


> Just saw this. No my bar was very hard.  I do use a water discount in every soap I make though.  Whatever amt of lye I use I only double the oz. for water.   I am about to make another batch next week.  I will be glad to pm you the recipe tomorrow I use for a 3 lb batch I use if you want. Just let me know. I am going to be gone all day today and need to get off the pc and get going



could i also get the recipe please?


----------



## eyeroll

I know I am (very, very) late to this party, but I'm wondering if anyone has experience in how Genny's original recipe does with color-treated hair?  I have chin-length, fine, thick hair that I color red and it fades incredibly quickly.  I'm always trying to minimize fading to the color and have been using commercial products designed to minimize color loss, but they're expensive.  I wouldn't think a CP shampoo bar would do too much damage to color if it's properly saponified, as there are so many fewer chemicals in the formulation, but I don't really know.  

I read through the response and didn't see much about this - just a couple people mentioned it in passing - so I apologize if it's already been addressed and I missed it.

Thanks in advance.

ETA: This thread has been great; it's so helpful and educational to someone just starting off.


----------



## squyars

Another late comer here, but has anyone with straight, oily blonde hair used this recipe with success?  I also read on another thread where rosemary eo works wonders at hair growth.
Think I might try the basic recipe tomorrow.

Thanks for sharing this thread Genny.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Obsidian

I've been using Genny's recipe for about a month now. I recently colored my blond hair a dark auburn and now, roughly 2 weeks later, it has faded considerably. The red is going the fastest but the dark brown is also slowing fading. My hair doesn't hold color well, especially red but its fading faster with the shampoo bar then with regular shampoo.


----------



## Saswede

I use a recipe for a henna shampoo bar that I developed myself, and my hair color also fades faster than with commercial/salon shampoos .....  So it seems that the chemicals that we're trying to live without really do prevent the loss of color!  Ah well, my hair feels lovely and I feel good about not contributing to the plastic in need of recycling.


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## shunt2011

I have made and tried this.  I color my hair red an it does cause it to fade quite quickly.  But then again, reds are known to fade more than any other.


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## namad

The Shampoo bar I make - I use Beer instead of Water, I use Egg Yolk, I do not Superfat the recipe when I run it through Soap Calc, but I do add Jojoba Oil at trace, as a superfat. I also use Cocoa butter in my recipe and alot of Olive oil, castor oil, coconut oil and palm oil. Rosemary and Patchouli EO for scent. It is AWESOME stuff. 

I also notice less hair loss and I had a customer (a male) tell me that he has noticed his hair getting fuller. It also smells, divine.


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## squyars

I just made Genny' s shampoo bar this morning.  Ended up using sweet almond oil instead of avocado, since I didn't have it.  Also used tea tree, chamomile and mallow eo' s.  Think I might skip the tea tree next time.  That stuff sinks!  I only used 15 grams for my one pound batch, but the whole house reeks now.  Bleh!   Also ran out of boxes, so I used my cupcake baking sheet with paper liners.  Hope they come out OK.

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## Obsidian

I can't stand tea tree oil either but my daughter likes it in soap. I made another batch of shampoo bars a couple day ago and used frankincense and myrrh. My first batch was unscented and I will most likely make unscented in the future.
Hope you like using shampoo bars. It took awhile to get used to but I like them now. I did experience some unexpected "side effects" My slightly curly hair has gotten a ton more body, and my oily, itchy scalp has cleared up.


----------



## Paintguru

Obsidian said:


> I've been using Genny's recipe for about a month now. I recently colored my blond hair a dark auburn and now, roughly 2 weeks later, it has faded considerably. The red is going the fastest but the dark brown is also slowing fading. My hair doesn't hold color well, especially red but its fading faster with the shampoo bar then with regular shampoo.



This was my wife's concern about using my shampoo bar.  Guess I will tell her not to use it .


----------



## squyars

Obsidian, I too have oily hair, but stick straight.  Looks nasty when it gets even a little oily.  I have been trying the no poo method with baking soda and acv, but I usually break down every few days to use commercial shampoo.  My hair just gets oily and dirty, no matter how well I massage the stuff in.  Keeping my fingers crossed that this stuff will work better.
Glad I'm not the only one who hates the tea tree oil.

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## Obsidian

My daughter also has straight hair and tried the baking soda method for awhile. Her hair became really oily and smelled terrible, glad she started using shampoo again.


----------



## Kansas Farm Girl

I too color my hair red, but unlike others, I have not experienced if fading any faster, in fact it seems to fade slower for me. I had shoulder length curly hair that had been very dry when I started using this recipe in Feb. It had been damaged when someone burned my hair when it was dyed and the expensive salon stuff seemed to make it worse not better. Anyway, I had it cut 2 months ago and the lady doing is said only the ends were still dry, unlike before when everything was dry. So I had her cut off all the dry part and my curls are back. YAH! It's soft again, and curly. I just made another batch that I will let cure until I need it, probably in 4-6 months. I find I don't need to wash nearly as often as I always have before, it actually looks good if I just rinse and put a bit of conditioner on in the shower on the days I don't shampoo.


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## Moot

Thank you Genny, Lindy and everyone for all the great info.  Over the years I've learned so much for all of you guys.    I made your shampoo recipe yesterday and I can't wait to test.  I really struggle with shampoos making my scalp irritated and break out.  

I did the batch but left out the chamomile and forgot about the sugar.  The sugar was for more bubble or to lower ph?  I scented with patchouli and ylang ylang.   

Years back I made a soap that was 5% sf, was just olive and castor, remember using it head to toe and liking it.  I did have short hair back then that was growing back after cancer so it wasn't colored and the texture was weird curly from growing back.  Now I have shoulder length hair that's colored and straighter. (considering quitting the color because of my scalp issues....not the healthiest thing to do anyways)  When I started reading this thread it occurred to me the coconut oil!  That's maybe why I never liked shampoo bars in the past. 

Boy if this works and we can all work together to get some good shampoo bar recipes going.  Imagine if we could get away from all the bottles of shampoo and conditioner??  

Thanks again everyone for a great convo!

*Learned so much FROM all of you guys!   I was typing to quick.


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## squyars

Oooh Moot, I would love to hear how your recipe turns out.  Mine are 48 hour old now.  Still a bit soft, but I'm thankful the tea tree sent has somewhat dissipated.  They are a beautiful creamy white, and since I ran out of boxes to use as molds, I poured them into cupcakes.  They are the perfect hand size.  I can't wait to hear how everyone's shampoo bars are turning out.

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## Lindy

I just want to point out that the only way you can superfat with a particular oil is HP because until saponification is complete the lye will take what it wants and leave behind as a SF what it wants.  

Sugar is just for bubbles.

Moot it is always nice to be able to help and encourage others in the craft.


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## kdaniels8811

My shampoo bars are a hit!  I love them.  Moot - hello from another cancer survivor.


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## squyars

Ugh.  Keep using baking soda and vinegar rinse because the commercial shampoo's are causing irritation.  

I keep looking at my three day old shampoo bars wishing I could try them now.  My hair feels so greasy and dirty.  The no poo method just isn't working for me.

Do I really have to wait four weeks?


----------



## Obsidian

I used HP with my first shampoo bars and started using them at 2 weeks, I couldn't stand the wait. If you did CP then you really do want to wait 4 weeks.
Do you have any castile? You can use that on your hair too.


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## Robert

squyars said:


> Ugh.  Keep using baking soda and vinegar rinse because the commercial shampoo's are causing irritation.
> 
> I keep looking at my three day old shampoo bars wishing I could try them now.  My hair feels so greasy and dirty.  The no poo method just isn't working for me.
> 
> Do I really have to wait four weeks?


Couldn't you in the meantime use some grocery store soap?  Or been there, done that?


----------



## squyars

Used CP.  I've read that first timers should get good at that first before trying HP.

I have tried regular store bought Dove Sensitive, but my hair doesn't feel right, and the Dove isn't working anymore on the rest of my skin.  My eczema is worsening, and I'm not sure if it's me, but I suspect Dove has changed their formulation.

I've started making my own soap because I can't stand the pain and itching anymore.  Maybe I will try HP after I get a few more CP batches under my belt.

Williamsburg, VA


----------



## Robert

squyars said:


> Used CP.  I've read that first timers should get good at that first before trying HP.
> 
> I have tried regular store bought Dove Sensitive, but my hair doesn't feel right, and the Dove isn't working anymore on the rest of my skin.  My eczema is worsening, and I'm not sure if it's me, but I suspect Dove has changed their formulation.
> 
> I've started making my own soap because I can't stand the pain and itching anymore.  Maybe I will try HP after I get a few more CP batches under my belt.
> 
> Williamsburg, VA


But Dove is a complicated cocktail to begin with, not much like what you'd be making, and not much actual soap in it.  Have you tried actual soap soap off the shelf on your hair?


----------



## squyars

Sorry,I should have been more specific. The Dove Sensitive I use is a bar soap, not shampoo.  All other bar soap (including ivory) aggravate my condition, or at the very least, leaves my skin very dry.  The only other soap I used to use was Pure and Natural, but they stopped making it.  The Dove bar soap worked well as a replacement for a while, but the last few years have seen worsening skin.  My doctors keep prescribing oral and topical steroids, but they have thinned my skin, made my hair fall out and made me feel generally crummy.

I have refused to go back to any of the doctors over the last few months, but I need to do something about this miserable condition.  After lots of reading,I thought I would give homemade soap and cleaners a try.  I have started with laundry detergent, and tried the no poo method to clean my hair (not fond of that much).  Seems when I find homemade soaps while out shopping, they still have FOs, or other unwanted chemicals. Seemed only logical to make my own.  Plus, quite frankly, it looked like loads of fun.  (Which it is!)

Williamsburg, VA


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## TVivian

My shampoo bars using Gennys recipe in the oven! More exciting than cupcakes!! 




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## Hazel

Those look nice! Also, I bet the cupcake size and shape would be easy to hold in your hands.


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## squyars

They look so cool.  I did mine as cupcakes too!  How come mine came out white and yours are brown?  Perhaps it's because I used almond oil instead of avocado?


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## TVivian

Thanks Hazel! Yes, I thought large cupcake size would be a good size for lathering so we'll see! 

Squyars, I did use the full amount of avocado and the oil is very green, but it's most likely due to the honey I added, not much, only 2 or 3 teaspoons but it did turn the mix quite orange! 


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## Obsidian

Mine is darker when it gelled, the two bars that didn't gel are a light creamy color.


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## TVivian

Obsidian said:


> Mine is darker when it gelled, the two bars that didn't gel are a light creamy color.



My picture was before the gel. They're even darker now. 


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## squyars

How do you know how much honey to use?

Williamsburg, VA


----------



## TVivian

squyars said:


> How do you know how much honey to use?
> 
> Williamsburg, VA



I guessed! I just used as much as I would have used sugar. I wanted to use more, but I was worried I'd ruin something.


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## Robert

squyars said:


> Sorry,I should have been more specific. The Dove Sensitive I use is a bar soap, not shampoo.


I assumed you were referring to the bar, and that you had been using it on your hair.


> All other bar soap (including ivory) aggravate my condition, or at the very least, leaves my skin very dry.  The only other soap I used to use was Pure and Natural, but they stopped making it.


"They" stopped making it only in the sense that the brand was sold off.  AFAIK the new owners are still making it.  Were you using it on your hair, though?


----------



## stargazer44

squyars said:


> Sorry,I should have been more specific. The Dove Sensitive I use is a bar soap, not shampoo.  All other bar soap (including ivory) aggravate my condition, or at the very least, leaves my skin very dry.  The only other soap I used to use was Pure and Natural, but they stopped making it.  The Dove bar soap worked well as a replacement for a while, but the last few years have seen worsening skin.  My doctors keep prescribing oral and topical steroids, but they have thinned my skin, made my hair fall out and made me feel generally crummy.
> 
> I have refused to go back to any of the doctors over the last few months, but I need to do something about this miserable condition.  After lots of reading,I thought I would give homemade soap and cleaners a try.  I have started with laundry detergent, and tried the no poo method to clean my hair (not fond of that much).  Seems when I find homemade soaps while out shopping, they still have FOs, or other unwanted chemicals. Seemed only logical to make my own.  Plus, quite frankly, it looked like loads of fun.  (Which it is!)
> 
> Williamsburg, VA



You will notice a HUGE difference with handmade soap.  First, Dove and Ivory aren't soaps.  They are detergent!  Google the ingredients.  You'd be shocked.  I did a blog post on this very topic.

My daughter has SEVERE eczema.  And switching to handmade soap has cured it.  Among many other things for the different members of our family.  We will never again use store bought 'soap'.  If you haven't made it yet, or are waiting for it to cure, I would suggest purchasing some from other soap makers while you wait.  Even though I make my own soap, I still like buying from other soapers.


----------



## squyars

Robert said:


> I assumed you were referring to the bar, and that you had been using it on your hair.
> 
> "They" stopped making it only in the sense that the brand was sold off.  AFAIK the new owners are still making it.  Were you using it on your hair, though?



When I use store bought bars, they leave my hair feeling like straw and it feels dirty.  I don't use them for my hair anymore, but the store bought liquid shampoo, although they make my hair feel clean and silky, irritate the eczema on the rest of my body.  Besides that,I have such oily hair, that less than 24 hours, and I need to wash again because my hair gets so oily.

Really hoping a handmade shampoo (either bar or liquid) will help with my skin, and oily scalp.  When I start using it,I will update.

Williamsburg, VA



stargazer44 said:


> You will notice a HUGE difference with handmade soap.  First, Dove and Ivory aren't soaps.  They are detergent!  Google the ingredients.  You'd be shocked.  I did a blog post on this very topic.
> 
> My daughter has SEVERE eczema.  And switching to handmade soap has cured it.  Among many other things for the different members of our family.  We will never again use store bought 'soap'.  If you haven't made it yet, or are waiting for it to cure, I would suggest purchasing some from other soap makers while you wait.  Even though I make my own soap, I still like buying from other soapers.



Still trying to figure out the difference between soap and detergent, but I know something isn't right in one or more of those chemicals.  My hands are particularly bad off, they are itchy and painfully cracked.  I really feel the worst offenders are the soaps, washes and shampoos, as well as the dish detergent.

Can't wait to try REAL soap.  I am truly thankful that one of our other members are sending me some of her soaps in exchange for mine, while I'm waiting for mine to cure.  I will keep you all posted.  I took a really grainy picture of my thumb (phone cameras don't take good close-up' s).  You might be able to see the dry, cracked areas.

Williamsburg, VA


----------



## Robert

stargazer44 said:


> You will notice a HUGE difference with handmade soap.  First, Dove and Ivory aren't soaps.  They are detergent!  Google the ingredients.


Ivory (solid) is soap.  But they are both detergents.

"Soap" and "detergent" don't cover the same ground in classification.  "Soap" refers to the composition of the product.  "Detergent" refers to its purpose or action.  A detergent (noun) is something used for cleaning; "detergent" as an adjective just means "cleaning" or "having the ability to clean".

There are soaps that are not detergents.  These are the soaps of various metals that are used as lubricants, anticaking agents, and various toiletry ingredients functioning other than as a cleaner.



squyars said:


> When I use store bought bars, they leave my hair feeling like straw and it feels dirty.  I don't use them for my hair anymore, but the store bought liquid shampoo, although they make my hair feel clean and silky, irritate the eczema on the rest of my body.


Is there some way you could wash your hair that it won't run over the rest of you?


> Besides that,I have such oily hair, that less than 24 hours, and I need to wash again because my hair gets so oily.
> 
> Really hoping a handmade shampoo (either bar or liquid) will help with my skin, and oily scalp.  When I start using it,I will update.


Have you used kettle process soap on your hair at any time?

To review, you're waiting for a batch to cure.  I don't know whether it's your 1st batch or you've made some before.  We're trying to figure out how you can get to what you want for your hair (leaving the skin problem for another thread) in the shortest time.


----------



## squyars

Thanks Robert!  Obsidian is graciously sending me one of her shampoo bars AND a tar bar for my skin.  Can't wait to try them out.  I will let everyone know how they work for me, and post pics of my skin if it clears up.

I only made my first batch of soap (ever) last week, so I'll be waiting three more weeks for it to cure.


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## Hazel

stargazer44 said:


> You will notice a HUGE difference with handmade soap.  First, Dove and Ivory aren't soaps.  They are detergent!  Google the ingredients.  You'd be shocked.  I did a blog post on this very topic.



I saw Robert's post so I don't have post my usual blah blah yadda yadda message. If people are interested, they can search my posts for my comments. 

Dove is a syndet but syndets can be more gentle than handmade soap. I have a BIL with severe psoriasis and Ivory is the only soap he can use. I say soap because Ivory isn't a syndet and I don't think its ingredients are terrible. As far as I know, the ingredients are still mainly tallow and coconut/palm kernel with some salt, silica and magnesium sulfate. BTW, both silica and magnesium sulfate are minerals which are good for our bodies. Silica is actually the most abundant mineral in our bodies. I'm a huge fan of magnesium sulfate and I use a lot of Epsom salts. I don't understand why people get so upset about Ivory soap. The only think I think is nasty about it is the fragrance but this is just my opinion. Some people love the scent. So, please let's not be bigots and make negative comments about syndets and commercial soaps since there are actually people whose skin are irritated by handmade soap. Different strokes for different folks. I prefer my soap because I use less moisturizer than if I use store bought soap and I can choose my own scents. But I also don't have any problem with the idea of using store bought soap if I had to since there are some I like.


----------



## stargazer44

Since my husband is a chemist, we can agree to disagree.  I am horribly allergic to Ivory, so don't use it.  If I was allergic to handmade soap, I wouldn't use it.  Most commercial bars don't claim to be soap because they are not.  Dove contains an ingredient which contains formaldehyde.  Something I choose not to use.  Handmade soap - for my family - is all we use.  If someone choses to use something else and it works, great!    

I was trying to be helpful - didn't realize it would upset people.  Frankly I don't appreciate being called a bigot.  I am rather offended and insulted.  I will unfollow this post now.  A lot was read into a simple post that was trying to help someone who was having trouble with commercial soap.  :-x


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## MOGal70

> I don't understand why people get so upset about Ivory soap. The only think I think is nasty about it is the fragrance but this is just my opinion.


 
Hazel,  I totaly agree with you! As a child my mother bought Ivory dishwashing liquid, she never required me to do the dishes, but I would tell her if she would buy another brand I would do them. I hate the smell of Ivory!


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## squyars

I guess I will see what happens when I start using homemade soap.  Not trying to badmouth commercial brand soaps, but I believe it's the detergents that I am allergic to.  Ever since the 90's, even Ivory started including detergent to help decrease soapscum build-up.  I was able to stay with Dove Sensitive for a while, but even that stopped working.

Thank you for everyone's assistance.  Really can't wait to give my first shampoo bar a try.


----------



## Hazel

stargazer44 said:


> Since my husband is a chemist, we can agree to disagree.  I am horribly allergic to Ivory, so don't use it.  If I was allergic to handmade soap, I wouldn't use it.  Most commercial bars don't claim to be soap because they are not.  Dove contains an ingredient which contains formaldehyde.  Something I choose not to use.  Handmade soap - for my family - is all we use.  If someone choses to use something else and it works, great!
> 
> I was trying to be helpful - didn't realize it would upset people.  Frankly I don't appreciate being called a bigot.  I am rather offended and insulted.  I will unfollow this post now.  A lot was read into a simple post that was trying to help someone who was having trouble with commercial soap.  :-x




I apologize because I realize that came off more harsh than I intended and I'm sorry I offended you. I  shouldn't have used the word. But I get really tired of reading  comments about commercial soap and body products. If you had stated you  were allergic, I wouldn't have posted what I did and would have  empathized with you. I'm allergic to Zest soap. I don't know what it is  but it makes me break out in hives. I looked at Dove's ingredients and  I'm not seeing which ingredient you state has formaldehyde in it. But  I'm not a chemist so I use sites like Swift's blog, chemistscorner and  personalcaretruth for research plus an ingredients dictionary. I know  they don't cover all ingredients.

You're right to call me out on this and I shouldn't have expressed it the way I did. I should have expressed my opinion more tactfully. It's a huge issue and everyone has different experiences and reactions. Some people are irritated by synthetic cleansing ingredients and some people are irritated by homemade soap. However, not all synthetic cleansing ingredients are the same - some are gentler than others which is why it's important to do research. I'm interested in learning in how to manufacture syndet bars because some people I know cannot use handmade soap. It's going to be quite awhile before I make the attempt. There is a lot of information to wade through and I don't depend on just one or two sources. It's a lot of reading. Although mainly it's my budget... 

It's certainly a debatable topic. As shown above are two comments - MOGal also doesn't like Ivory scent (it's not the only commercial bar fragrance I dislike) while squyars stated Dove Sensitive doesn't work for her. Everyone has a reason for learning how to make their own soap. I originally did it because I wanted a specific fragrance since I don't care to use body spray or perfume. Then I found out I required less moisturizer which made me happy. :grin:


----------



## green soap

This discussion is so interesting.  My mom would also buy Ivory because one of us had sensitive skin (it might have been my dad?).  I hated the smell, but for some reason I thought this is what unscented soap smelled like.  Even as a child I figured it should be unscented for sensitive skins, right?

I was so pleasantly surprised the first time I made unscented soap, that it did not smell like Ivory!  I am laughing at my naivety now.

Going back to the shampoo bars, am I glad these work for me so well!  I am not even using ACV rinse.  I do not use commercial conditioner either.  I have been working on a pre-shampoo hair conditioning oil.  It looks like between these two things (shampoo bars and pre-shampoo conditioning oil) I will never need commercial hair products again.  I do not want to bash commercial products (I think Dr Bronners is real soap and pretty good) but this gives me a sense of pride and autonomy.  And, my hair is looking and feeling better, is that great or what?


----------



## Obsidian

I must be the odd one out, I love the scent of ivory. Its one of the few commercial soaps I can use on my face without breaking out but I stopped buying it years ago because I always felt I was buying air. It is really good for carving though


----------



## Robert

squyars said:


> Ever since the 90's, even Ivory started including detergent to help decrease soapscum build-up.


What's Ivory putting in to do that?



green soap said:


> This discussion is so interesting.  My mom would also buy Ivory because one of us had sensitive skin (it might have been my dad?).  I hated the smell, but for some reason I thought this is what unscented soap smelled like.  Even as a child I figured it should be unscented for sensitive skins, right?
> 
> I was so pleasantly surprised the first time I made unscented soap, that it did not smell like Ivory!  I am laughing at my naivety now.


I thought the same thing as a child.  I figured perfume smelled sweet, while this smelled like...a burning sensation...so that must be what unscented soap smelled like.  Strangely enough, as an adult I got to like it, just have to make sure I don't sniff it too closely.

One strange thing I and some others have noticed is that when I got my skin (usually hands) very dirty (like with ground soil), then the lather of Ivory soap on it stank.  I don't know what the phenomenon is -- whether it was a reaction between dirt and soap that the perfume of others covered the effects of, or something about the combination of one or more of Ivory's perfumes with something in dirt.


----------



## squyars

Robert said:


> What's Ivory putting in to do that?


 
Ivory's list of ingredients include: Sodium Tallowate, Sodium Palmate, Water, Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Glycerin, Sodium Chloride, Fragrance, Coconut Acid, Palm Kernel Acid, Tallow Acid, Palm Acid, Tetrasodium EDTA.

It is the EDTA that is included to reduce lime scale in your shower. It is considered mostly biodegradable except in conditions of high pH (Ivory's pH is 9.5). It has also been shown to have cytotoxic and genotoxic effects on lab animals.


----------



## Hazel

What source are you basing the above statement? The problem with studies on ingredients is the amount used on lab animals is extremely high as compared to what humans are exposed to when using a product. Plus, some of the tests are based on ingestion and not based upon topical use. Many ingredients cannot be absorbed into the skin unless specifically formulated with a "carrier" to help it move through the skin layers. So, these ingredients are rinsed off. I've seen statements quoted incorrectly or taken out of context from studies to support people's agendas - usually scaring people into buying their products. I was amused awhile back about someone's comment (it wasn't on this forum) about admiring creative marketing but not when it's based on lies and fear mongering. 

However, I certainly understand people's concern about ingredients and desire to eliminate exposure to potentially harmful ones. Everyone is different. Some are more sensitive to topical products and some people's skin are more permeable because of varying factors. I just don't like seeing information taken out of context or twisted and used for scare tactics. I find it extremely difficult to read medical studies since I don't have a science background. Even some MSDS can be difficult to understand if a person isn't familiar with them and can easily misrepresent what is stated on them. However, I can see how such tactics have also been helpful for the sellers of handmade products who are honest about their products.

I apologize to the people who have been following this thread. I didn't intend to join in with off-topic remarks and I'll try not to post again.

eta: Please don't take my comments as written to be mean or offensive. I don't want to upset anyone. I just want to know the sources of some statements. I've seen some dubious sites and articles online. I'd be extremely paranoid about ingredients if I based my opinion on just a few which came up first in searches.


----------



## squyars

Hazel said:


> What source are you basing the above statement? The problem with studies on ingredients is the amount used on lab animals is extremely high as compared to what humans are exposed to when using a product. Plus, some of the tests are based on ingestion and not based upon topical use. Many ingredients cannot be absorbed into the skin unless specifically formulated with a "carrier" to help it move through the skin layers. So, these ingredients are rinsed off. I've seen statements quoted incorrectly or taken out of context from studies to support people's agendas - usually scaring people into buying their products. I was amused awhile back about someone's comment (it wasn't on this forum) about admiring creative marketing but not when it's based on lies and fear mongering.
> 
> However, I certainly understand people's concern about ingredients and desire to eliminate exposure to potentially harmful ones. Everyone is different. Some are more sensitive to topical products and some people's skin are more permeable because of varying factors. I just don't like seeing information taken out of context or twisted and used for scare tactics. I find it extremely difficult to read medical studies since I don't have a science background. Even some MSDS can be difficult to understand if a person isn't familiar with them and can easily misrepresent what is stated on them. However, I can see how such tactics have also been helpful for the sellers of handmade products who are honest about their products.
> 
> I apologize to the people who have been following this thread. I didn't intend to join in with off-topic remarks and I'll try not to post again.
> 
> eta: Please don't take my comments as written to be mean or offensive. I don't want to upset anyone. I just want to know the sources of some statements. I've seen some dubious sites and articles online. I'd be extremely paranoid about ingredients if I based my opinion on just a few which came up first in searches.



Final report on the safety assessment of EDTA, calcium disodium EDTA, diammonium EDTA, dipotassium EDTA, disodium EDTA, TEA-EDTA, tetrasodium EDTA, tripotassium EDTA, trisodium EDTA, HEDTA, and trisodium HEDTA.

Lanigan RS, et al. Show all

Int J Toxicol. 2002;21 Suppl 2:95-142.

Abstract EDTA (ethylenediamine tetraacetic acid) and its salts are substituted diamines. HEDTA (hydroxyethyl ethylenediamine triacetic acid) and its trisodium salt are substituted amines. These ingredients function as chelating agents in cosmetic formulations. The typical concentration of use of EDTA is less than 2%, with the other salts in current use at even lower concentrations. The lowest dose reported to cause a toxic effect in animals was 750 mg/kg/day. These chelating agents are cytotoxic and weakly genotoxic, but not carcinogenic. Oral exposures to EDTA produced adverse reproductive and developmental effects in animals. Clinical tests reported no absorption of an EDTA salt through the skin. These ingredients are likely, however, to affect the passage of other chemicals into the skin because they will chelate calcium. Exposure to EDTA in most cosmetic formulations, therefore, would produce systemic exposure levels well below those seen to be toxic in oral dosing studies. Exposure to EDTA in cosmetic formulations that may be inhaled, however, was a concern. An exposure assessment done using conservative assumptions predicted that the maximum EDTA dose via inhalation of an aerosolized cosmetic formulation is below that shown to produce reproductive or developmental toxicity. Because of the potential to increase the penetration of other chemicals, formulators should continue to be aware of this when combining these ingredients with ingredients that previously have been determined to be safe, primarily because they were not significantly absorbed. Based on the available data, the Cosmetic Ingredient Review Expert Panel found that these ingredients are safe as used in cosmetic formulations.


----------



## judymoody

It's been awhile since I looked at this thread and I found scrolling through the last 39 (!) pages very interesting.

I originally was attracted to CP soaping by the desire to help my eczema-prone daughter (success) and by the idea of making CP shampoo (failure).  My various experiments included beer, egg yolk, high castor, and the various EOs mentioned above.  Typically my hair would be happy the first day and over the next few days, I'd get build up and my hair felt like gummy, matted, straw.  However, I have never tried coconut oil-free or using a cleansing number of zero.  I may try again and if it doesn't work for my hair, I'll have a nice mild, conditioning bar of soap to use in the shower.

I don't see the point of citric acid as I am convinced that its only effect is to increase the superfat.  There are easier ways to do that.

I still don't understand how the alkaline nature of CP can be good for hair in the long term unless one follows with an acidic rinse.  But as so many here have had good experiences, I'm willing to give it one more shot.

I also understand where Hazel is coming from regarding syndets.  While her word choice may have been unfortunate, it is true that some people cannot tolerate detergents but there are also people who cannot tolerate CP.  Not all syndets are evil.  I make syndet shampoo bars with mild surfactants which work very extremely well for my hair.  I know a successful CP soapmaker who cannot use the products that she makes and has great success in developing her own CP "detergent bars" which work beautifully on her skin.

So I think the takeaway point is to avoid generalizations and not to leap instantly to the conclusion that if the ingredient is synthetically produced or seems unpronouncable that it must be bad for you.

I also hate the scent of Ivory soap.


----------



## Robert

squyars said:


> Ivory's list of ingredients include: Sodium Tallowate, Sodium Palmate, Water, Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Glycerin, Sodium Chloride, Fragrance, Coconut Acid, Palm Kernel Acid, Tallow Acid, Palm Acid, Tetrasodium EDTA.
> 
> It is the EDTA that is included to reduce lime scale in your shower.


No, there wouldn't be enough of it in there to have such an effect.  I'm sure it's a processing aid and/or antirancidity agent instead.

To get enough EDTA in soap that it'd keep lime soaps from forming, you'd have to use an awful lot.  The fact that there's more palm acid in there than EDTA tells me that's not the case.  Nobody in major soapmaking tries to use EDTA that way.  However, it might be included either because at some point in the mfg. process (including storage of ingredients) it counteracts something that could go wrong involving metal equipment, or to prevent rancidity by taking up iron & other transition metals (which EDTA has a greater affinity than it does for major "hardness" cations) that could catalyze such rxns of fats or their soaps.


> It is considered mostly biodegradable except in conditions of high pH (Ivory's pH is 9.5). It has also been shown to have cytotoxic and genotoxic effects on lab animals.


I would take those findings with a grain of salt.  The reason is that EDTA is used in such a wide variety of materials in biochemical experiments with living things that if it had strong bioaffecting properties it would mess up the results.

The main knock on complexing agents (and the reason NTA was taken out of laundry detergents for some time in the USA as a phosphate replacement, though not in Canada) was that in the environment they would mobilize toxic metals that otherwise would not be very bioavailable.  That's not going to be the case in a household situation.

Also, the pH of soap is immaterial in figuring the biodegradability of an ingredient.  You don't want it to biodegrade in the intact product, only in the sewage, and the pH of sewage is not going to be determined by one waste substance like soap.


----------



## Hazel

I said I'd try not to post again but here I go again. I googled to find the link to the info posted by squyars. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12396676 Thanks for showing it. I'd forgotten about this site. 

Just a few thoughts



squyars said:


> The lowest dose reported to cause a toxic effect in animals was 750 mg/kg/day.


 
  I don’t know what animals they’re referring to but if they’re mice, 750 mg is a large dosage to be feeding them. Mice average weights range between 10 – 25 g. I’m not very good with math but at a conservative estimate based upon  a 25 g  animal would be like feeding a 150 lb person almost 4.5 ounces. 



squyars said:


> Oral exposures to EDTA produced adverse reproductive and developmental effects in animals.


 
  The adverse effects were based upon ingestion and not topical use. Again, it’s also a lot to be taken internally.



squyars said:


> Clinical tests reported no absorption of an EDTA salt through the skin. These ingredients are likely, however, to affect the passage of other chemicals into the skin because they will chelate calcium. Exposure to EDTA in most cosmetic formulations, therefore, would produce systemic exposure levels well below those seen to be toxic in oral dosing studies.


 
  I’m not sure if this is considered a problem or not by the way it is phrased. I know some calcium supplements are chelated as a food supplement for better absorption (allegedly). I stuck allegedly in there because I don’t know if chelation really does improve absorption. There are other minerals which are marketed as “chelated” but this is another huge topic and one I haven’t researched. 

  I’m also confused by the mention of calcium. I thought chelating agents like EDTA were for binding metal ions in products. But I’m not a scientist so I must have misunderstood.



squyars said:


> Exposure to EDTA in cosmetic formulations that may be inhaled, however, was a concern. An exposure assessment done using conservative assumptions predicted that the maximum EDTA dose via inhalation of an aerosolized cosmetic formulation is below that shown to produce reproductive or developmental toxicity


 
  Okay, so don’t inhale it. Good news is if you do inhale, you’re not going to be able to breathe in enough to be harmful.



squyars said:


> Because of the potential to increase the penetration of other chemicals, formulators should continue to be aware of this when combining these ingredients with ingredients that previously have been determined to be safe, primarily because they were not significantly absorbed. Based on the available data, the Cosmetic Ingredient Review Expert Panel found that these ingredients are safe as used in cosmetic formulations.


 
  I don’t know why they say it has the potential to increase penetration of other chemicals when it stated clinical tests reported no skin absorption. They did state it will chelate calcium but I don't understand how calcium can be absorbed through the skin.  I’m confused. Maybe someone else knows for sure.


----------



## Robert

Hazel said:


> I know some calcium supplements are chelated as a food supplement for better absorption (allegedly). I stuck allegedly in there because I don’t know if chelation really does improve absorption. There are other minerals which are marketed as “chelated” but this is another huge topic and one I haven’t researched.


Certain swallowed minerals are better absorbed if complexed, and chelation is one form of complexation.  It depends what the mineral is complexed with.  Magnesium, for instance, is definitely absorbed much better if complexed with certain amino acids or other agents than in inorganic form.  If the complexing substance is itself well absorbed, then it can cause the material it complexes to be dragged along in with it.  However, if the complexing substance is poorly digested and not well absorbed itself, then it can reduce the rate at which what it's complexing is absorbed.


----------



## squyars

judymoody said:


> I originally was attracted to CP soaping by the desire to help my eczema-prone daughter (success) and by the idea of making CP shampoo (failure).



I am delighted to hear all the success stories from eczema sufferers from CP soap.  That is the entire reason I got into this in the first place.  I never even realized people made specific shampoo bars, and when I came across this thread I thought it would be worth giving a try, since I am concerned that it is something in the commercial processed soaps and detergents that aggravate my condition.  When I use commercial shampoo, my hands burn; in addition my hair might feel great after my shower, but less than 24 hours later my hair is greasy again.

Not really sure if a shampoo bar is the answer to any of that, but it can't hurt to try.  Besides, Obsidian sent me one of her shampoo bars the other day, while I'm waiting for mine to cure.  I can at least say that my hands didn't burn.  Yay!  We will see how it works over time.  At the very least, I can use the bar as my daily shampoo, then use regular shampoo infrequently if I get any kind of build-up.

Thanks for your encouraging remarks and personal experience.  That is all I'm looking for, not another college degree to track on my wall.


----------



## judymoody

For what it's worth, people who have used my soap in hopes of relief from eczema have benefitted most from 

1) unscented bastille made with a mix of goat's milk and chamomille tea as lye liquid,
2) pine tar soap, also unscented, also high in OO

From what I understand eczema can have a lot to do with diet as well as topical applications.  

In general, a soap that is high conditioning/low cleansing and free of scent is likely to work best, IME.  Addition of finely ground oatmeal or using oat "milk" as your lye liquid might also be nice.

My daughter, by the way, can use any of my soaps, fragranced or not.  But her eczema was not too severe and tends to be stress-related.


----------



## squyars

Thanks JudyMoody!

Obsidian also sent me one of her pine tar bars.  Giving that a go to see how it works.  I have to say, that only after one use,I woke this morning to my patches of eczema drying out.  Of course, it could be happening by coincidence, or a fact that I only used her shampoo bar, and not commercial shampoo that tends to burn my areas of eczema.  In any regard, I will continue to use both to see how it works.

I also agree with diet and stress being big factors here, but unless I win the lottery to pay my bills, I think the stress part is always going to play a part.  And, not quite ready to go to a gluten free diet.... I LOVE my pasta and bread too much.  LOL.


----------



## stargazer44

squyars - I tried to message your but your box is full!


----------



## forherbs

Squyars, instead of using baking to cleanse your hair until your shampoo bar is ready to use, you can use honey and water. Generally, it's 1 TBLS to 3 TBLS distilled water. That's what I use when I take a break from shampoo bars.


Sent from my iPhone using Soap Making

Just leave the honey water in your hair for a couple minutes and rinse


Sent from my iPhone using Soap Making


----------



## squyars

forherbs said:


> Squyars, instead of using baking to cleanse your hair until your shampoo bar is ready to use, you can use honey and water. Generally, it's 1 TBLS to 3 TBLS distilled water. That's what I use when I take a break from shampoo bars.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Soap Making



Thank you so much.  Can't wait until my shampoo bars are cured.  I'm thankful that Obsidian sent me one of her shampoo bars.  This is my third day using it, I'm a little concerned about making it through the adjustment period.  However, after two days of waxy, grubby hair,I realized that the problem was that I'm a lazy shampooer.  With such long hair,I never really had to do much when using commercial shampoo.  I now realize that if I take a few extra minutes to really massage it into the scalp and down the length of the hair, then rinse, rinse, rinse and when you are done, rinse some more, the hair feels unbelievably thick and clean!  

I like to wash daily, but I won't need to with the shampoo bar.  It's nice to realize that I can use the honey I wash my face with to tide my hair over.

Thank you for the wonderful suggestion!


----------



## nframe

Paintguru said:


> Well I tried this recipe yesterday.  40% Olive, 30% Avocado, 20% Castor, 10% Shea Butter.  Did 1:1:1 Peppermint, Lavender, Eucalyptus EO.  Added 1 tsp sugar, 1 tsp ascorbic acid, and 1 tsp clay per pound oil.  No color.  Actually solidified pretty quickly, cut after 18 hours.  We'll see how it turns out.



Hello,

I wondered how your soap turned out.  I have not found your update on this.  This thread is so long that maybe I missed it.  

I have tried Genny's recipe and unfortunately it made my hair far too greasy so I was interested in trying something similar to your recipe.  I thought of doing:
40% olive oil
30% avocado oil
15% castor oil
15% coconut oil

What do you (and other people hopefully) think?

Thanks in anticipation.
Nicole


----------



## Obsidian

How long did you use your shampoo bars for? That nasty oily feeling is common when you first switch. It can take a number of weeks for your hair to get used to shampoo bars. Its also important to take time and lather your hair really well and rinse, rinse, rinse some more.

Your recipe looks ok but it might be a bit too cleansing for hair. Just like skin, you don't want to strip hairs natural oils or it will dry out. Unlike CP for skin, you can't use a high superfat on hair to counter balance high cleansing. Thats why most shampoo bars are low cleansing.


----------



## nframe

Obsidian said:


> How long did you use your shampoo bars for? That nasty oily feeling is common when you first switch. It can take a number of weeks for your hair to get used to shampoo bars. Its also important to take time and lather your hair really well and rinse, rinse, rinse some more.
> 
> Your recipe looks ok but it might be a bit too cleansing for hair. Just like skin, you don't want to strip hairs natural oils or it will dry out. Unlike CP for skin, you can't use a high superfat on hair to counter balance high cleansing. Thats why most shampoo bars are low cleansing.



Thank you for this.  I have only used Genny's shampoo bar once so maybe I should persevere a bit.  Based on your comments, I changed the recipe a bit and now it is:
40% olive
35% avocado
15% castor
10% coconut

The cleansing number (in Soapcalc) has gone down from 10 to 7 and conditioning went up from 70 to 73.  Also, I thought of superfatting at 3%.  What do you think of the recipe now?


----------



## Tizzy

Made this soap today. Can't wait to try it out!


----------



## Obsidian

That should be better. Don't give up too soon once you starting using your bars, most everyone really likes their hair once the adjustment period is over. Using diluted apple cider vinegar for a rinse will help too.


----------



## nframe

Thanks a lot.  I will make it today and keep you posted.


----------



## flavapor

For all of you that are having problem with the oily hair, like people stated, there is an adjustment period.  I had success with using only water and an ACV rinse in between shampoos, but if you work outside the house, I guess either hair up or wait till vacation.

It was best explained to me like this.

The surfactants in shampoos strip the hair and scalp of all of the oils, so it overproduces oils to replace them.  If you continue to use shampoo, you think of this as normal, however, if you start using shampoo bars that are not syndent, there are no surfactants to strip the hair, yet the body continues to produce the oils until it realizes that it doesn't need to which is what takes about a month.


----------



## paillo

I found that mine seem to do better with 10-15% coconut oil. Without it, it took 3 or 4 latherings before it really sudsed up, and I'm just too lazy to do that. I have oily hair, and the coconut oil is really nice. But just personal preference. And I don't have hard water, so that's probably a factor too.


----------



## Saswede

My shampoo bar recipe is a lot higher in CO, mainly because we have really hard water here and anything less just doesn't work ...  


Sent from my iPad using Soap Making


----------



## Moot

well I couldn't wait. I made the recipe exact except for I didn't had the sugar,  I used the soap 3 days in a row.  I did use a very small, less than a dime size of conditioner.  

I LOVE how my hair felt, could comb it out so easily.  No fly aways or friz.  Normally I have a big huge dry clump of hair to comb thru.  My scalp for the first time didn't feel itchy or break out and hardly any hair loss like I normally do!  Is this for real???  This might be the best bar shampoo recipe I've ever used.  (the duh skip the coconut oil?) I've tried other shampoo bars on the market from other soap makers, never liked anything.  

Now, my only problem is by the 3rd day, my hair felt/looked a tiny bit greasy.  My husband said I was crazy and thought it looked totally normal.  So I'm going to wait 2 more weeks, let the soap cure a bit longer and skip the conditioner.  If that seems still to much conditioning, I might try to adjust the recipe.  Just not sure how.  I've read thru this thread twice, took notes.  Maybe I should skip the shea butter and trade it up for more olive and castor?  Still deciding.  

Thanks again for sharing this recipe!


----------



## newbie

Has anyone else had issues with DOS? My first bar had none but this second bar is ridiculous. I subbed out corn oil for soybean because the properties seemed so similar. It's not the stored ones that are the problem. Its the one in the shower. I put it on a plastic soap saver with spikey things so it's not sitting in water, not is is near any of the other bars. I get big soft gooey spots, big enough to scoop out with my thumb. Cured for about three months and as I said , the first and therefore younger bar had no issues. humidity alone? It makes me sad!!!


----------



## squyars

newbie said:


> Has anyone else had issues with DOS? My first bar had none but this second bar is ridiculous. I subbed out corn oil for soybean because the properties seemed so similar. It's not the stored ones that are the problem. Its the one in the shower. I put it on a plastic soap saver with spikey things so it's not sitting in water, not is is near any of the other bars. I get big soft gooey spots, big enough to scoop out with my thumb. Cured for about three months and as I said , the first and therefore younger bar had no issues. humidity alone? It makes me sad!!!



Sounds like it may be unsaponified oil.  Does it smell bad?  Sorry for your soap disaster.  If it's not DOS, perhaps you can salvage it in a rebatch?


----------



## nframe

*Update*



nframe said:


> Thank you for this.  I have only used Genny's shampoo bar once so maybe I should persevere a bit.  Based on your comments, I changed the recipe a bit and now it is:
> 40% olive
> 35% avocado
> 15% castor
> 10% coconut
> 
> The cleansing number (in Soapcalc) has gone down from 10 to 7 and conditioning went up from 70 to 73.  Also, I thought of superfatting at 3%.  What do you think of the recipe now?



I made the shampoo bar and wanted to give an update although I feel that this thread is becoming unmanageable due to its length!  My final recipe was:
40% olive oil
30% avocado oil
15% castor oil
10% coconut oil
5% cocoa butter
SF3%

After a week, I couldn't wait any longer and decided to try it.  It is much better for my hair than Genny's recipe (sorry Genny!).  Whereas, with Genny's recipe my hair looked very greasy, with the above shampoo bar it looks quite normal.  I did not do a vinegar rinse, nor used conditioner.  I used, as I usually do, a leave-in conditioner (something else I will have to try and make myself now...).

So, a bit thank you to Genny first and to all the others who have helped me with their comments.


----------



## GriffinRidgeFarm

My shampoo bar recipe doesn't have any butters in it, do they make a big difference? Do you like bars with shea butter better than to those without?


----------



## nframe

GriffinRidgeFarm said:


> My shampoo bar recipe doesn't have any butters in it, do they make a big difference? Do you like bars with shea butter better than to those without?



I couldn't say as I am not experienced enough.  The recipe I came up with was originally Genny's recipe and it did not agree with my hair.  After taking into consideration all the comments (and there are so many!) this is what I came up with and, as I said, I am much happier with this formula.  I am open to suggestions if it can be improved further.


----------



## Paintguru

nframe said:


> Hello,
> 
> I wondered how your soap turned out.  I have not found your update on this.  This thread is so long that maybe I missed it.
> 
> I have tried Genny's recipe and unfortunately it made my hair far too greasy so I was interested in trying something similar to your recipe.  I thought of doing:
> 40% olive oil
> 30% avocado oil
> 15% castor oil
> 15% coconut oil
> 
> What do you (and other people hopefully) think?
> 
> Thanks in anticipation.
> Nicole



Nicole,

Sorry, I wasn't monitoring this thread, so I missed your question.  I've been using my bars now for a while, and so far I really like them.  Granted I am a male with short hair, so I can't comment beyond that (wife won't use the bar, worried about her highlights/lowlights coming out).  It lathers up really well and easily (I rub it right on my head).  Again, I can't really tell if my hair is more oily than normal since it is so short.  I may do the coconut oil add (and remove the butter if possible) in the future though to simplify the recipe.  

Also have a coworker I gave a bar to (another male) and he really likes it as well.  In fact, he uses it to shave in the shower as well!  Multi-purpose I guess.


----------



## nframe

Thanks for this Chris.  Better late than never!


----------



## Paintguru

I just did another BIG batch of shampoo soap (trying to build stock for my microbusiness).  Added 10% coconut oil and took out 5% avocado and 5% castor oil from before.  Added 1 tsp/lb sugar and 0.5 tsp/lb bentonite clay.  Still kept the same three essential oils, but added more lavender and reduced the peppermint.  We'll see how it turns out, but I'm guessing it will be good.


----------



## Obsidian

I forgot to grab a new shampoo bar tonight when I showered so I used my 100% lard bar and it is nearly as nice as Genny's original recipe. I'm going to try it for a few days and see how it compares, it would be fantastic to have a harder bar for shampooing with.


----------



## Soapman Ryan

Obsidian said:


> I forgot to grab a new shampoo bar tonight when I showered so I used my 100% lard bar and it is nearly as nice as Genny's original recipe. I'm going to try it for a few days and see how it compares, it would be fantastic to have a harder bar for shampooing with.



Good to know. I made a batch of 100% lard bars last week, to see what the rave was all about. They're still curing. Keep us updated on how it worked  after using for a while as shampoo.


----------



## nframe

Paintguru said:


> I just did another BIG batch of shampoo soap (trying to build stock for my microbusiness).  Added 10% coconut oil and took out 5% avocado and 5% castor oil from before.  Added 1 tsp/lb sugar and 0.5 tsp/lb bentonite clay.  Still kept the same three essential oils, but added more lavender and reduced the peppermint.  We'll see how it turns out, but I'm guessing it will be good.



Please don't forget to let us know how it turns out. :smile:


----------



## Moot

*loving Lindy/Ginny's shampoo bar*

After a longer cure time I've been using the "lindy/ginny bar" and I really like it.  I skipped using conditioner after,  don't fee I need it at all.  I don't think I want to change anything.  It is a soft bar so I have to really keep it out of the water or it's mush but I personally don't mind.   I'd add lard or a touch of coconut to harden it up but I'm afraid it will make my hair feel yucky.  

We should make a sticky of a list of tricks, tips on making shampoo bars.  This thread was so helpful. 

I owe you one Lindy/Ginny!  This is great.  I think you might have me off bottle shampoo and conditioner!


----------



## Obsidian

Soapman Ryan said:


> Good to know. I made a batch of 100% lard bars last week, to see what the rave was all about. They're still curing. Keep us updated on how it worked  after using for a while as shampoo.



Lard ended up not being that great. After a couple washes it made my hair feel pretty icky. The SF was 5%, maybe a bit lower would help but I doubt I'll try.
Next up to test is my castile and then a 100% deer tallow bar. I just colored my hair though so I'll be using shampoo for a week or so.


----------



## roseb

Genny's recipe is in the crock pot as I write this.  Unfortunately, I had to sub out avocado for sweet almond and soybean for sunflower.  I was out of both.  I had some lavender infused OO so I used that.  I included some alkanet root and bentonite clay, and am scenting it with rosemary.  I'll report back on how my hair likes the poo-bar.

Wowza!!! Love this recipe!  I have shoulder length, fine, wavy, normal hair.  Even with the subs I made to it (see previous post), my hair is great!  Don't laugh because I know that everyone had done this...I used the little ball of soap that I scraped off the crockpot last night to wash my hair this morning.  I thought that it would just fall apart but it didn't. I rolled it around my head, got a head full of lather and went to town.  My hair was squeaky clean...I actually heard it.  Something that hadn't happen since I was a kid.  So I was thinking that it was going to be like straw...but it's not!  I didn't even use product in it.  My curls are defined, my hair is shiny and soft!  Lets see how it holds up in the Florida humidity.   Oh, I did add 5% coconut because I sweat so much working in the garden.  Thought I could use the extra cleansing. 

Genny you need to patent this recipe!  

Thank you!!!!


----------



## Skatergirl46

I'm going to make this recipe right now! I have very fine long hair and I haven't been able to find a good recipe for my hair. I'm not fond of the vinegar rinses some use. I don't mind needing to use conditioner after washing. The shampoo bars I have tried either leave my hair too oily or feeling like dry straw. 

I've been sitting here waiting for the mail carrier to bring my Neem oil. I think I'll make poo bars while I wait!


----------



## kdaniels8811

I also have long, fine/thin hair and this is the only shampoo bar that has worked on my hair.


----------



## lizflowers42

I have been using this bar on my hair almost as long as I have been soaping and I am very pleased with the results! I can't stand regular shampoo now!


----------



## roseb

I've used the poo-bar for the second time and my hair feel better than the first time!  I went 3 days without washing & I could have gone a 4th since my hair was not greasy or full of yucky product. Almost no hair in the drain and my scalp had never been cleaner.  I gave a bar to my girlfriend who has really fine hair and she loved it as well.  Her hair looked really fuller this morning. Amazing stuff!  So happy that I found this tread!


----------



## Skatergirl46

A question for those of you with long fine hair.   Do you find it difficult to comb your hair out after washing it with the shampoo bars? When I used one my hair felt stripped and the comb would never make it through without a lot of conditioning. I want to get away from commercial shampoo but I haven't found the right formula for my hair yet.


----------



## roseb

My hair is shoulder length, fine and wavy.  I have not conditioned while using the poo-bar and have no problem combing it out.  Difference with this recipe it that it is not stripping at all.  My hair is soft with lots of shine and bounce.


----------



## lizflowers42

I have shoulder length, fine curly hair-I don't use a conditioner with my shampoo bar, but I take a wide toothed comb and detangle after washing.  I use a lotion bar after I shower on my arms and legs, so there is a little bit of oil left on my hands when I scrunch my curls, so it works well for me


----------



## Skatergirl46

Thank you roseb and LizFlowers! :smile:


----------



## onugs

Skatergirl46 said:


> A question for those of you with long fine hair.   Do you find it difficult to comb your hair out after washing it with the shampoo bars? When I used one my hair felt stripped and the comb would never make it through without a lot of conditioning. I want to get away from commercial shampoo but I haven't found the right formula for my hair yet.



My DW found the same thing, wont use it now. :-?


----------



## Skatergirl46

I made Genny's recipe except that I used Cocoa Butter in the place of the Soybean Oil because I didn't have any Soybean. I only made a 2 pound batch to test this recipe out. My hair is difficult and I didn't want a lot of shampoo bars that I can't use.  

This batch was interesting to make. I did it HP. This batch never did turn over on itself or separate in the pot like HP usually does. It got thick and I gave it a stir then let it cook. It gelled completely in about 20 minutes and no zap. I used some Plumeria FO and a little green lab color. 

Of course I had to take the little ball of soap that I scraped from my crock pot into the shower as soon as I had my soaping things cleaned up.  
I washed my hair. So far I like the way my hair feels. Previous bars have left my hair feeling stripped but oily in the end so we'll see how it looks and feels tomorrow. I am hopeful.


----------



## Moot

I made the "Genny/Lindy" bar as I call it.  I have shoulder length hair and with this bar I can comb thru it very easily.  It doesn't feel stripped at all, no conditioner, no fly aways and the best ever is no hair falling out all over like I do with even a very expensive shampoo.  I even use this all over as a body bar.  Oh, and no irritated itchy scalp like I normally do.  I've tried other shampoo bars and this one is the best for me so far.  I LOVE this recipe BUT......

..after about 5 days, my hair looks oily up towards the scalp.  I go back to using a regular (expensive popular) shampoo....back to matted clump, fly aways and itchy breaking out scalp. SO then I go back to the poo bar! .....I have normal hair, maybe a bit oily.  On my next batch I'm wondering if I should: 

#1: skip the shea butter and up all the other oils OR
#2: keep the recipe the same and add 5% coconut oil OR
#3: vinegar rinse (haven't tried yet) 
#4: adjust the sf (at 6% now) 
#5: add some clay (I do have a bit of a wave)  

Again thanks for sharing this recipe!


----------



## Skatergirl46

Moot said:


> I made the "Genny/Lindy" bar as I call it.  I have shoulder length hair and with this bar I can comb thru it very easily.  It doesn't feel stripped at all, no conditioner, no fly aways and the best ever is no hair falling out all over like I do with even a very expensive shampoo.  I even use this all over as a body bar.  Oh, and no irritated itchy scalp like I normally do.  I've tried other shampoo bars and this one is the best for me so far.  I LOVE this recipe BUT......
> 
> ..after about 5 days, my hair looks oily up towards the scalp.  I go back to using a regular (expensive popular) shampoo....back to matted clump, fly aways and itchy breaking out scalp. SO then I go back to the poo bar! .....I have normal hair, maybe a bit oily.  On my next batch I'm wondering if I should:
> 
> #1: skip the shea butter and up all the other oils OR
> #2: keep the recipe the same and add 5% coconut oil OR
> #3: vinegar rinse (haven't tried yet)
> #4: adjust the sf (at 6% now)
> #5: add some clay (I do have a bit of a wave)
> 
> Again thanks for sharing this recipe!



IMO you might want to try it with a lower SF before you change your recipe. Leaving behind less oil on the hair might make the difference for you. I have had the same experience with shampoo bars. I made this recipe yesterday with a 3% SF. My hair is super fine BTW.


----------



## roseb

I did lower the SF to 5%, added a bit of clay and 5% CO. Still love it and everyone I give a test sample to feels the same way.


----------



## Skatergirl46

Unfortunately even this recipe seems to dry out my hair too much. :sad:
Darn! I really thought this was going to be the one.  On a positive note, I used this bar on my body and it was great! I might make some more and just up the SF a bit. (I did 3% SF).


----------



## Sapwn

I use this bars for the last two months and I have to say that for my hair, which is greasy, it is the best shampoo I ever had.
Doubt if I ever use a commercial shampoo again in my life.


----------



## kryse13

made my version of this bar and washed my hair with it today,  it really was squeaky clean hair!  very soft.  lets see how my hair gets over the next month. So far I love it.


----------



## babysoap

Sapwn said:


> I use this bars for the last two months and I have to say that for my hair, which is greasy, it is the best shampoo I ever had.
> Doubt if I ever use a commercial shampoo again in my life.



Did you use the exact same recipe?


----------



## AKjulz

I may need to try this one with NO variation


----------



## mkstylessoap

I did try this recipe and let a small piece cure for about 3 weeks. It barely had any lather and made my hair feel like straw in the shower, it could be that I have very thick, very dry hair to begin with.


----------



## Obsidian

Its surprising how much little variation can affect the outcome. My first shampoo bars are made exactly to the recipe except for the addition of egg yolk, my second batch I had to replace part of the avocado oil with sunflower oil and I can tell a difference. It doesn't lather as good and the bars seem softer.
I'll not deviate from the original recipe again but I do recommend adding egg yolk, it makes a really nice thick lather.


----------



## kryse13

Obsidian said:


> Its surprising how much little variation can affect the outcome. My first shampoo bars are made exactly to the recipe except for the addition of egg yolk, my second batch I had to replace part of the avocado oil with sunflower oil and I can tell a difference. It doesn't lather as good and the bars seem softer.
> I'll not deviate from the original recipe again but I do recommend adding egg yolk, it makes a really nice thick lather.


My version was 
40% OO
30% avocado oil
10% caster
10% shea butter
10% soybean oil

I infused the OO (by heating) with nettle leaves. I also added 1tbsp per lb of nettle powder.  Egg yolk was beaten into the OO (cold) at the beginning. I only heated the shea butter to make it soft and let the lye cool till it was below 100F. Also added FO, .5 % per lb


----------



## paillo

I have to admit mine is sort of ridiculously complicated, but it's amazing after about a 4-month cure.

One variation:

Oils of Alkanet-infused Olive, Avocado, Apricot kernel, Castor, Babassu.  
Shea butter.  
Rosemary-infused distilled water, Buttermilk.  
Oils of  Coconut, Jojoba,  Argan, Broccoli seed, Wheat germ.  
Essential oils of Rosemary and Peppermint. 
Citric acid, Dl-Panthenol, Silk amino acids, Honeyquat.

And the usual suspects of clay, silk, sugar.

I vary the infusions, clays, essential oils and other stuff.


----------



## Sapwn

babysoap said:


> Did you use the exact same recipe?


 


I used sunflower oil instead of soybeen oil


So, the recipe was the following:

_I used OO 40%
Avacado oil 30 %
Castor oil 10%
Shea Butter 10%
Sunflower seed oil 10%
I superfated at 8 %_


----------



## roseb

I've been using the poo-bar for about a month, and I just threw out my half used shampoo and conditioner.  Never going back!


----------



## kryse13

roseb said:


> I've been using the poo-bar for about a month, and I just threw out my half used shampoo and conditioner.  Never going back!



I'm going to give mine away, I hate wasting. Then when they are done using my old stuff ill give them a poo bar!

Ok tested it for about 2 weeks now.  The bar is about 3 weeks old (I HP'd the bar).  Makes my hair squeaky clean, but my scalp is sooo very dry.  I need to use conditioner.  Think the poo bar is too cleansing for me.  I will try to make one in the future that has a higher SF%


----------



## pattime

I just wanted to thank the OP for posting this recipe. 
I've yet to make a bar of soap (apart from MP) but have been reading, reading, reading and collecting supplies (just hit the WSP sale for LOTS of goodies) and plan to use this recipe for my first ever soap! I'm sooo excited. Anyway, thank you again!

BTW...new to the board, and this is my first post as well. 

Added: Almost forgot...I plan to do HP in my crockpot (too impatient to wait on CP) and use Rosemary EO....anyone care to help a newbie out by helping me figure out how much EO to use?? I've yet to find a chart of any sort that defines how much fragrance to use pp 
Thanks!


----------



## Lindy

Your total EO (all that you are using) should not be over 3%.  And welcome aboard.


----------



## Obsidian

I generally use .50 oz per pound of oil but that can be a bit too strong for some EO's.


----------



## pattime

Thank you both! 
I figured that 3% is right around .48 oz (if I'm calculating correctly, which isn't a given) so 1/2 oz sounds just about right.


----------



## Yill

I've made a very similar shampoo bar but it does not work for me 
My hair overall feels clean but there is this one patch at the back of my head that is very sticky feeling, like it is very greasy.
I detoxed my hair already (been having really greasy hair for week since not using commercial shampoo) but after washing my hair with this bar there is this one patch that still feel greasy.....


----------



## Obsidian

Does that spot happen to be where you rub the bar on your hair? I've found that if I get too much shampoo in one spot from rubbing the bar on my head too hard, its really hard to rinse out and it can feel oily.


----------



## Yill

No I do not rub the bar on my head, I just create a lather in my hand and rub that into my scalp and hair. It's just this one spot that gets greasy. My hair feels a lot thicker too and seems to have more curls than when I use my liquid (all natural) shampoo.


----------



## Obsidian

Yes, this bar definitely brings out the curls. I have mostly wavy hair with more curls in back and its never looked so good, regular shampoo just makes it frizzy.

If you stick with the shampoo bar, there is a good chance the greasy spot will go away.


----------



## CaraCara

I so wish I could use these bars on my head.  I made a batch last spring using Lindy's recipe and my hair wound up being such a serious rat's nest that no amount of ACV, oil treatments or conditioners could quell the fury for a few months. Now it's a wonderful facial bar.


----------



## Lucidcat2

Wow, this is an incredibly informative post on shampoo bars! I tried the no poo method with acv rinse almost 2 years ago & it was okay, but, I just couldn't get used to not lathering my hair. So, I hopped back & forth between commercial shampoo & no poo for a while until I started making my own soap & shampoo (happy coincidence!) so I guess I had already sort of gone thru the adjustment period with my hair. I have been using a shampoo bar for at least a year & a half & will not buy a bottle of shampoo again. I've even used "regular" home-made soaps in a pinch without any problem. I'm very interested in all the additives mentioned here (sugar, honey, citric acid, egg yolks, banana mash etc) & have made the recipe, subbing rice bran oil for soybean oil. I also used about 65/35% raw milk & brown ale instead of water & added a tsp each of citric acid & honey. I scented w/cornmint & rosemary eo's & CP'd it. I would have HP'd it, but, the crockpot I bought from the 2nd hand store for soaping quit working after the first use  I can't wait to try this recipe out & try some more of the additives in some more recipes!


----------



## pattime

Just made my first ever soap batch using this recipe (more or less) and decided to go CPOP rather than HP as I'd originally intended. The bars are ugly....I infused the OO with rosemary and used hemp oil and sunflower with no soy so I was pretty much stuck with green. I did try adding some black color swirls with a color bar but the soap wasn't hot enough to thoroughly melt the color so I've got little black specs throughout. Other than that though (being ugly) it came out GREAT and smells divine (Herbal Essence dupe fragrance from Brambleberry)!

I washed my hands with a bit of shavings and it lathers beautifully, feels decadently creamy, and rinses clean. I'll wait a bit to use it because it's rather soft, but I wanted to thank you (Genny) once again for posting this recipe, and all that have contributed as well.

I still can't believe I actually MADE SOAP!! I made quite a mess as well, but I learned from it and hope to get a handle on the process so the process itself and cleanup is a bit more pleasurable next time  At least the end product was successful...I have this recipe, this board, and all the fine folks here that share the knowledge with the rest of us to thank for that....so, thank you!


----------



## FlybyStardancer

This is an amazing thread!

I'd like to make a shampoo bar of my own once I get a couple other soaps under my belt... But I'm having trouble figuring out what oils to use. I really would like to stick to oils that I either already have, or have ordered and are on their way. What I have are coconut (which most say not to use!), canola, soy (liquid), EVOO, a little container of avocado, jojoba, and castor.

Other additives that I want to use are marshmallow root, chamomile, lemon, calendula, honey, and citric acid (with a corresponding adjustment to the lye to balance it out).

I have long blonde hair that I'd like to lighten up a bit and bring out the natural red highlights. It's also dry, a mass of tangles, easily gets static-y, a bit frizzly, and the underside can be curly while the top tends more towards waves than curls. I've already started rinsing with an acidic rinse (switching off between lemon and ACV), using less shampoo, and doing twice-weekly overnight coconut oil treatments. These have helped some with my hair (it's never been quite this curly before!), but I'd like to improve it more and get away from the harsh shampoos I've been buying at the same time.

I also have liquid rock coming out of my tap. I hate it, but there's no changing it. That's the logic behind the addition of citric acid-to act as a chelator to counteract the hard water.

Thanks for the help!


----------



## dudeitsashley

Just curious has anyone added silk into their shampoo bar recipe? I keep seeing fellow soapers adding silk into their lye water and thought it might be something to try out.


----------



## Pilar

This is a formula for soap-shampoo seborrheic dermatitis 
Coconut oil 425 gr  
olive oil (oleate neem) 70 gr 
grapeseed oil 85 gr 
Rhassoul clay 20 gr 
soda 112 distilled wáter 208 
Bergamot essential oil 16 g 
citronella essential oil 8 gr 
rosemary essential oil 8 g 
peppermint essential oil 8 gr 
incense tincture 2 g


----------



## flavapor

I made this recipe right after the thread started and almost quit thru the adjustment period, but I stuck with it.  I subbed flat beer to squeeze out a few more bubbles and beer is supposed to be good for your hair, well the bar is tiny now but **** its lasted forever!

 I do need the ACV rinse but I love the shampoo bars.  Now, I have made and tried a one bar batch of 100% coconut oil with a 20% superfat and I like it even better!  The high superfat makes it a moisturizing bar.  I have thick hair just past my shoulder and I get keratin treatments once a year because I have curly hair and I am in straight mode these days.  My hair is super soft and shiny and I always get compliments on it.

 I stlll need a vinegar rinse, but I have been reading about some using ACV as the liquid in the bars to bring ph down and the bars are coming out fine, so that's on my agenda this weekend.  I am going to hp the bar and add some goodies at the end.  I am going to put some nettle and rosemary ground up to a powder with the cook, (I did that in the orig bar and you cant even see it, just tiny speckles) and I am going to add some wheat protein, argon oil as an additive after the cook, maybe at 1-2% unless I sub a part of my 20% superfat for it, haven't made up my mind yet, and I think I am also going to add a bit of dimethicone after the cook for anti static. 

 I am going to see if the ACV in the bar makes it un necessary to use the ACV rinse.  People are saying the ph of the finished bar is at about 7 after a week.  Our hair is a perfect ph of 5.5 so that is much closer to normal than a 9 or 10 ph of regular soap.  Has anyone tried this?


----------



## paillo

Very curious to hear the results of using ACV as part of the liquid. I bet DeeAnna has some scientific insight if she chimes in on this thread.

I use, in descending order, olive, avocado, apricot kernel, castor, shea, babassu, jojoba, argan, broccoli seed, wheat germ. I usually replace the water with botanical-infused beer, and last batches have been marshmallow-infused olive. I also love DL Panthenol, clay, silk amino acids and honeyquat.  Still experimenting with ingredients, there are sooo many I want to add. It's complicated to make, and needs a very long cure, but I totally love the stuff. I usually pour it in a column mold or use individual silicone molds because they're a more comfortable and long-lasting size for me.


----------



## pattime

paillo said:


> Very curious to hear the results of using ACV as part of the liquid. I bet DeeAnna has some scientific insight if she chimes in on this thread.......




Yes please let us know how they turn out. I'd planned to try this and was told it would make the soap a gooey mess and no longer 'soap'. I've only got one batch (this recipe more or less) under my belt and don't need THAT much of a fail to discourage me ....yet


----------



## peepla

You will LOVE it. Silk is amazing. It is great on hair and skin. Here's my shampoo bar. Lots of silk in there.

Interesting. Shouldn't vinegar being acid cause and nutralizing effect in lye...being a base? That can be a tricky thing.


----------



## Obsidian

Yes, the vinegar will neutralize part of the lye effectively raising the superfat. It won't lower the PH enough to make a difference to hair, better off to stick with AV rinse.


----------



## jules92207

Going to make Genny's shampoo tomorrow, its the first time I have made something outside of the soap making recipes I have in my book, just curious since I HPCP if I need to do anything different at all? Everything I have run through SoapCalc from my book recipes seem to be a bit off (haven't figured out her water/sf obviously) so I just thought I would double check. Nervous Nelly over here...


----------



## flavapor

Heres the update to my experiment on the ACV.  
 I made two one pound batches and I added a lot of additives that were good for hair.  I did these hp because I was told the panthanol would not make I thru the sap process.

 These were side by side batches

 I used 100% coconut oil with a 20 % superfat.  I added 15 oz of the oil to the crock with a 38% water in one and vinegar in the other.  I reserved 1 oz of coconut as a SF.  I also added 1 tsp sod. lactate to each to keep it moving.

 I had also added one tsp of both rosemary and nettle ground into powders so my bars are green.  
 First, I had to stick blend to hell and back to get trace on both.  They both turned an orange than brown right before my eyes within a minute.

 Secondly the ACV separated after about 10 mins and I stick blended again and it stayed blended from then on.

 I cooked for an hour and 15 mins, added the SF after one hour along with a tsp of each jojoba and dimethicone.

 Once it cooled to 170 I added my FO and stirred, then added a tsp of polyquat 7 and also a tsp of argon oil, stirred again.  I did all this crazy stuff cause I was looking up optimal temps etc.. 

 Now I waited till it cooled to about 125, I was supposed to let it cool to under 110 but that just wasn't gonna happen and I don't recommend doing the wait on temp cause it started to dry up and get crumbly while still in the pot, so this is the only different part of the recipes.  

 The ACV is the one that was crumbly.  So at 125 I added a half oz of water that had 25g of dl-panthanol dissolved in it, and 1/2 oz of wheat protein, both of which may or may not have been eaten up by the temp, which is 110 on the wheat protein and I think 120ish on the panthanol.

 I plopped the bars in the single cavity molds and like I said it was crumbly, so once it was all in I pressed it down firmly and then let it sit, it was hard almost immediately, but looked like it would fall apart when unmolded so I wet my hand with distilled water and basically ran dribbles over the bar and that bonded all my crumbles but it still looks rustic although very shiny.

 On the plain water bar, I added just like above but added the wheat and panthenol at about 155 degrees.  I was able to pour this mixture into the molds but it still has rustic tops but not crumbly looking.

 Today I ph checked them and this is the weird part.

 The ph of ACV is 9.3
 The ph of water is 8.9

 I used one on each side of my hair, the one with the water felt less dry and brittle in the shower but I could tell that both needed the ACV rinse, so I did rinse.  I never blow dry my hair so I am sitting here waiting for it to dry and will report back later if I notice any difference in the two sides.

 I am going to recheck the ph of both bars again next week and see if they mellow at all.
 Also.. the ACV bar does not smell at all like acv and didn't smell any different than the water bar while cooking.

 The water bar had slightly more lather but both had ALOT of lather, moreso than any other bar I have used and almost as much as a surfactant shampoo.

 Hope this helps someone


----------



## pattime

Thanks for that flavapor, very interesting stuff. Anxious to hear the results (hair test) and ph after a bit of time.


----------



## flavapor

pattime said:


> Thanks for that flavapor, very interesting stuff. Anxious to hear the results (hair test) and ph after a bit of time.



I left it to air dry like I always do, just because I am blow dryer challenged.  I do flat iron my hair, so I flat ironed it with no product.  I can not really feel or see that big of a difference.

 Both sides are shiny, no fly aways, and both are very soft/silky feeling.  I think the one with the water seems a bit silkier and the with the vinegar seems like each hair strand is thicker, other than that, if you were here right now you would not be able to tell I didn't wash my entire head with the same product.

 I will post if the ph changes and I will wash side by side again.


----------



## MadMadamMim

wow, flavapor, so the batch with ACV's pH actually came back as higher??  I am curious to see what happens over time.  Thanks for posting your experiment!


----------



## peepla

The scent of vinegar disabates when hair drys...but a vinegar rinse only has about 1/2 cup of vinegar to a quart of water. So its like non-existant in smell.


----------



## flavapor

I know Peepla but I wanted to be able to sell these bars and a lot of people just wont use the vinegar rinse and I don't feel like explaining how to find and make a citric acid rinse.  Its easy to tell them to make the vinegar rinse, I use it all the time and love the shine it gives my hair.


----------



## Miz Jenny

I use a stronger solution of vinegar rinse because my hair is coarse, wiry and very thick and it works. I started light then increased the amount of acv until it worked for my hair. My hair is shiny without having to use any product on it. IMO, unbelievable. I also use organic acv and it works better for me than the regular. (Between not having to buy laundry soap, shampoo or conditioner, we've saved a few hundred dollars this past year.


----------



## flavapor

MadMadamMim said:


> wow, flavapor, so the batch with ACV's pH actually came back as higher?? I am curious to see what happens over time. Thanks for posting your experiment!


 
 Yes, and I have a haircut apt tomorrow, so I am going to make her inspect my hair and tell me if she sees any noticeable difference in the left to right side.  She is always commenting on how shiny and soft my hair is.  She knows I use my own stuff.


----------



## crey15

Crocoturtle said:


> clay is good for curly hair. I wouldn't put a lot at first.




I have curly hair. What kind of clay would you use and how much? I am so excited to try this. 

Ps hi everyone. I'm a newbie soaper and this is my first post


----------



## Miz Jenny

CaraCara said:


> I so wish I could use these bars on my head.  I made a batch last spring using Lindy's recipe and my hair wound up being such a serious rat's nest that no amount of ACV, oil treatments or conditioners could quell the fury for a few months. Now it's a wonderful facial bar.



CC: you need to keep at it at least a couple of weeks. My hair went into shock and was a mess so I went back to my shampoo and hated it. Went back to the bar and experimented with different strengths of acv. I shampoo my hair first, apply the acv mix and leave it in and it's the last bit I rinse.


----------



## QueenBeeSoap

crey15 said:


> I have curly hair. What kind of clay would you use and how much? I am so excited to try this.
> 
> Ps hi everyone. I'm a newbie soaper and this is my first post



Crey, welcome to the forum! 

I have curly hair as well, and I added bentonite clay at 1 tsp ppo (per pound of oil) which is supposed to be good for curls.  I just made this shampoo bar recipe a couple of weeks ago, so I haven't tried it yet - I want to allow time for it to fully cure so that I can give it the best chance to see if it works for my hair.


----------



## crey15

Thank you for responding and the ppo def cuz I would never have guessed that. I'm waiting for my oils to come in and I think this might be my first soap mission. My dad can't use most shampoos so it will be awesome to see how is scalp does with this


----------



## flavapor

Went to the hairdresser today and had her inspect.  Her comments were that the ACV side was much shinier, I didn't notice it but she said when the light hits it that it is much shinier.  My bathroom lighting isn't the greatest and is fluorescent so I didn't notice a difference.  She also said the ACV side seemed lighter and cleaner.

 I haven't washed my hair since Sunday, and she said the side with just water seemed like it had more product build  up and was ready for a wash, which is what I felt too but though it could have been because of the way I wear my hair off to that side.  I am going to recheck the ph on Sunday since that's when it will be a week old.


----------



## Seawolfe

Ok! This will be my weekend HP project, and I would love some imput from those wiser than I. 

I have very fine straight hair, with my hyperthyroidism it does sometimes try to fall out. I can get pretty grubby in my job so it needs to clean really well. I do not have hard water, but I do travel a lot and would like a bar that works in a wide range of waters. Especially on ships - they make their water usually by distillation (so would that be soft water?)

I plan to follow the original recipe, with these minor additions, changes or ideas:
- silk in the lye water, along with the sugar
- Rosemary infused OO
- clay - should I add some? I have French green clay or Moroccan red. I was thinking French green clay and then indigo for color.
- sub in 5% coconut oil for extra cleaning? take it out so the soy allotment. Or maybe 10 % so I could add a little salt to compensate for harder water?
- citric acid at trace (1 tsp / lb) to help with hard water and neutralize
- and maybe some powdered nettle added, that's good for hair too

Then rosemary and orange EO  

Or am I a crazy newbie who should just stick to the original recipe?


----------



## seven

@Seawolfe
i think that's a tad too much of citric acid (1tsp/lb). i remember in another thread (somewhere in the liquid soap sub-forum), DeeAnna explained about citric acid quite at length. if you add too much, you'll risk too much superfatting at the end, coz citric acid eats the lye quite a lot (if i remember correctly). i think we're gonna need DeeAnna again here to explain about this... @DeeAnna, if you're reading this, please come by and shed some light 

another suggestion would be to up the castor quite a bit. i upped mine to 8% and got great bubbles with my poo bar. i also swapped the water with beer, which i love. and a blend of EOs: lavender, eucalyptus, bergamot, tea tree, peppermint.


----------



## flavapor

Seawolfe said:


> Ok! This will be my weekend HP project, and I would love some imput from those wiser than I.
> 
> I have very fine straight hair, with my hyperthyroidism it does sometimes try to fall out. I can get pretty grubby in my job so it needs to clean really well. I do not have hard water, but I do travel a lot and would like a bar that works in a wide range of waters. Especially on ships - they make their water usually by distillation (so would that be soft water?)
> 
> I plan to follow the original recipe, with these minor additions, changes or ideas:
> - silk in the lye water, along with the sugar
> - Rosemary infused OO
> - clay - should I add some? I have French green clay or Moroccan red. I was thinking French green clay and then indigo for color.
> - sub in 5% coconut oil for extra cleaning? take it out so the soy allotment. Or maybe 10 % so I could add a little salt to compensate for harder water?
> - citric acid at trace (1 tsp / lb) to help with hard water and neutralize
> - and maybe some powdered nettle added, that's good for hair too
> 
> Then rosemary and orange EO
> 
> Or am I a crazy newbie who should just stick to the original recipe?



Don't add salt unless you are doing an all coconut bar, it inhibits bubbles in oils except for coconut.  Coconut oil makes bubbles in anything!


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman

Many people add a wee bit of salt to mix.  Of course it affects it, but apparently not enough to notice.


----------



## Seawolfe

Thanks! Ok Im going to give up on the citric acid idea. Maybe add just 2 tsp of salt to 2 lb bar? Or just leave salt out all together?

I don't think I want to up the castor oil, I'm afraid of it being too sticky? Thats why I was thinking of a little of coconut oil - added cleaning and will compensate for the tiny bit of salt.

Is the green french clay ok do you think at 1 tsp ppo? Im thinking that plus some powdered nettles might give a nice green, and Ill ditch the indigo.


----------



## lreynolds

lizflowers42 said:


> Suggested amount 1 tsp per pound? This girls got curls!


 What clay would you recommend for curly hair?



lizflowers42 said:


> I have fine and thin hair, and I found the recipe to work really well for me hair!  I added clay and citric acid to mine at trace after reading through everyone's comments and I really like it.  No need to condition or use ACV rinse, and my curls are no longer flat looking!


How much citic acid should one use?


----------



## QueenBeeSoap

lreynolds said:


> What clay would you recommend for curly hair?



I used bentonite clay in mine for my curly hair. I read through this thread before deciding what additives to put in mine, and I believe that's the kind of clay lizflowers42 used as well.


----------



## tank7900

Thank you Genny, Lindy, and all other members for the information in this post.  I am trying out my first batch of shampoo bars tonight.  Will post my results upon completion.  I am using a modified version of Genny's recipe at the beginning of this thread.  I subbed cocoa butter for the soybean oil.

Tank


----------



## Belinda02

Made mine yesterday. Sub almond oil for the avocado oil. Used citric acid, sugar and rosemary.   It's out of the Pringle can and drying a little before cutting.


----------



## Seawolfe

Because this is a wonderful recipe and all credit goes to Genny and every one posting in this thread, I should put my status report here, even though I did post a thread because I was HP'ing with infused oils and had some questions: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=42663. 

I infused the olive oil in the recipe with rosemary for a month at room temp, and then infused the olive and avocado oils in the recipe with comfrey and nettle leaf powders in a warm bath the night before soaping.

In the lye water I put a blob of tussah silk & 1 T sugar. Water was 35% of oil weight.

At trace I added 1 oz salt in a 2 lb batch. This is to maybe help in hard water and I substituted a little bit if coconut oil for the soy in this recipe to boost cleaning (I get grubby) and to compensate for the salt, the rest of the sub was almond oil.

Avocado Oil (infused with nettle) 30%
Castor Oil    10%
Olive Oil (infused with rosemary and comfrey) 40%
Shea butter   10%
Coconut oil 76 deg    2%
Sweet Almond oil     8% 

Superfat was 6%, even though this was HP I did not pick an oil to superfat with.

HP went perfectly, the soap is a pretty mottled green color. 







Because I am an impatient weasel I've already tried it (with an ACV rinse) and my hair is shiny and soft, even without a conditioner. Which is strange because I never go without conditioner.
I also dragged my 10lb wonder terrier Max into the bath with me, and shampooed* his doggy smelling pelt up (and an ACV rinse after) He is now sweet smelling and soft and shiny. Oh and his spring itchies went away. So we give this shampoo recipe four paws up. 

*my dog does not have any skin sensitivities and I was careful to suds a little and rinse a lot a lot, YMMV on any other dog.


----------



## soapylondon

Thank You Seawolfe for sharing your version of Gennys Shampoo Bar.
I have finally got the courage to read all 50 pages of this thread, its taken a while but I have truly enjoyed the read.
I just made Gennys recipe but used 10% sweet almond instead of Soybean. 
I checked the vegetable oil in the supermarket (in the UK), most are rapeseed oil and the one that says soy it says [Vegetable Oil (Produced from Genetically Modified Soya), Anti-Foaming Agent E900]
Would you use this oil? or are we better off swapping this oil for Sweet Almond or Sunflower, what is best?
Thanks. Paula


----------



## seven

@Seawolfe, thanks for sharing your results, and your recipe too. that is wonderful that Max can share this poo bar as well, with great result that is!


----------



## squyars

I have a thought on reducing the pH,  and hopefully reducing the need of an acid rinse.  What if I HP my soap, then after the cook add citric acid?  The problems I see here are determining how much acid to add to make it more balanced, and would it reduce the lather of my soap?  What do you all think?


----------



## FlybyStardancer

Adding citric acid to HP after the cook will do the same as adding it to CP. The lye binds more strongly to citric acid, and so will UNBIND from the fatty acids in order to cozy up to the citric acid, leaving you with a higher superfat and no real change in pH. (This is one thing that LS makers have to watch out for when using citric acid to neutralize the intentionally-lye heavy base. Using more citric acid than excess lye will cause cloudiness from the oils that are un-soaped by the citric acid.)


----------



## squyars

FlybyStardancer said:


> Adding citric acid to HP after the cook will do the same as adding it to CP. The lye binds more strongly to citric acid, and so will UNBIND from the fatty acids in order to cozy up to the citric acid, leaving you with a higher superfat and no real change in pH. (This is one thing that LS makers have to watch out for when using citric acid to neutralize the intentionally-lye heavy base. Using more citric acid than excess lye will cause cloudiness from the oils that are un-soaped by the citric acid.)



Sure would be nice to find a way to reduce the pH in my shampoo bar.  So what you are saying is that after all the lye and oils have reacted and created a soap during HP, that once you add the acid, the lye will then revert back to lye, leaving me with a puddle of oil and some compound of lye and citric acid?  There, is a bad high school chemistry class gone very wrong!  

Edit:  just read that citric acid and lye combine to make sodium citrate.   So I'm guessing here that the acid pulls the lye off the oil molecules to make sodium citrate.  Ok, back to trying to find a shampoo that doesn't have SLS or other detergents I'm allergic to.  Argh!


----------



## soapylondon

I am sorry to go off topic here. Just a quick question.
Do you use refined Avocado Oil or unrefined?
Thanks


----------



## Belinda02

Using a small sliver of this as hand soap waiting for the balance to cure. The first few days it was very creamy and not much lather but today there is more lather.  Nice soap and looking forward to trying on my hair. Doubt I can wait a month.


----------



## paillo

I find curing shampoo bars for more than the usual time really, really helps with bubbles, lather and lasting power. I let mine cure at least two months, and notice a BIG difference.


----------



## happymom

I made Lindy's original recipe a few months after it was posted by Genny. I made a ginormous batch and I am still using it - so I have been using this instead of commercial shampoo for over a year, with no additional styling products. I swim 4x a week so because of that I wash it often, but on my off days I feel comfortable skipping a wash/style. I have made a couple observations and was wondering if anyone else noticed the same:

1. My hair blows dries faster than with commercial shampoo - I was wondering if the oil in the shampoo bar had something to with this, like maybe it repels water
2. My hair is thick but naturally very straight, doesn't hold a curl or style well. Using a shampoo bar though gives it "tooth" - as if maybe the hair cells aren't laying down flat (although it does look shiny). I don't know why this is but it has more hold with no additional products - maybe again because of the oil.
3. I left a bar one time in a plastic bag in my gym bag, in my car on a hot day. When I came out the bar was liquid and never hardened back up at room temperature. My other bar of homemade soap (goats milk & honey) did not do that.

Any feedback is welcome - thanks everyone!


----------



## green soap

soapylondon said:


> I am sorry to go off topic here. Just a quick question.
> Do you use refined Avocado Oil or unrefined?
> Thanks



I have used both types with good results.


----------



## lreynolds

lizflowers42 said:


> Suggested amount 1 tsp per pound? This girls got curls!




With curls, what type of clay do you recommend?


----------



## AnnaMarie

I am finding this conversation on citric acid interesting and informational! I recently have begun using Lindy's shampoo bar recipe (soy bean swapped for sunflower because I didn't have soy), and my hair is loving it after several washes. I haven't used citric acid in soap at all, but in doing a little more looking I found a shampoo bar post on Soap Queen that uses citric acid.  Down in the comment section one of the commenters got rather nasty and belligerent about using citric acid and how the Soap Queen's post was "rubbish" (I noticed in her several comments that not once did she ever offer any credentials, scientific proof, etc, or anything that would give her point credibility :roll::roll. Anyway, Anne Marie said that they were aware of this and, therefore, added the citric acid at trace which lowered the ph. Anyway, I wondered if anyone had seen this or had any comments on it- all in the spirit of learning 
Cheers!
Anna Marie


----------



## FlybyStardancer

Adding citric acid to any soap, even at trace, will give you free fats and trisodium citrate. Period. All you're doing is creating a chelator and adding more superfat. That's not to say that adding citric acid can't be beneficial--trisodium citrate will make it easier to rinse the soap out of your hair even in hard water. It's just the claim that it lowers the pH is not held up by science. (Citric acid is often used the neutralize liquid soaps, but if you add too much it gets cloudy because suddenly it's superfatted. Same deal with bar soaps, only you don't have the handy visual indicator.)


----------



## AnnaMarie

FlybyStardancer said:


> Adding citric acid to any soap, even at trace, will give you free fats and trisodium citrate. Period. All you're doing is creating a chelator and adding more superfat. That's not to say that adding citric acid can't be beneficial--trisodium citrate will make it easier to rinse the soap out of your hair even in hard water. It's just the claim that it lowers the pH is not held up by science. (Citric acid is often used the neutralize liquid soaps, but if you add too much it gets cloudy because suddenly it's superfatted. Same deal with bar soaps, only you don't have the handy visual indicator.)



Thank you for chiming in! Is there a source that I can read about this further? 
Cheers!
Anna Marie


----------



## FlybyStardancer

They don't make a point of the trisodium citrate being a chelator, but most liquid soapmaking books will cover what happens when you add citric acid to soap in their section on neutralizing the excess lye. I have Catherine Failor's book, _Making Natural Liquid Soaps_. It's the same chemical reactions, just with potassium instead of sodium.


----------



## Alaska beauty

To increase conditioning properties in your soap you can add citric acid to your water -before adding lye. 1gr citric acid need 0.6 gr NaOH to create height conditioning citrals. It give you final soap more shiny look and soft feeling on your skin and hair.


----------



## DeeAnna

I agree with StarDancer. When you add a simple acid such as citric acid to a saponifying soap batter, the lye suddenly gets a choice. It can break apart the fats and react with the fatty acids to make soap or it can react with the citric acid to make sodium citrate. Citric acid gets first dibs every time because it's a far, far easier and simpler chemical reaction. If citric acid is added to a CP soap batter without any other changes to the recipe, the soap will have a higher superfat, but the pH will be the same as if the citric acid had never been added. (I can explain the reasons why, but it's a long answer that I need to write up for another time.) A soapmaker can either deal with the consequences of adding citric acid by adding the extra lye needed for the citric acid reaction, or by adding sodium citrate not citric acid to the soap batter, or by hot processing the soap and adding citric acid after the cook.

"...Hot-process soapmakers can add fatty acids (or even acetic or citric acid) to the finished soap before pressing it into the molds. Cold-process soapmakers do not have this luxury. If you add any acid to the raw soap, it will react instantly with the caustic soda [another name for sodium hydroxide, NaOH], resulting in an expensive and wasteful version of lye discounting. There will be unsaponified oil in the finished soap, but it will be just as alkaline as if you had added no acid at all. Any soap, be it a commodity or handcrafted product, made by the cold- or hot-process method, can only be acidified after saponification is complete..." Dunn, K. Scientific Soapmaking. pg 229. Comment in brackets [ ] is mine.

Hope this helps!


----------



## AnnaMarie

Thank you DeeAnna and StarDancer! It is good to get a clearer picture of what's going on backed up with scientific data and credentials. There is so much inaccurate info put on the internet that you really have to filter everything! I appreciate the time both of you gave to answering my query 
Cheers!
Anna Marie


----------



## squyars

DeeAnna, thanks for that explanation.  I have asked earlier if I could add the citric acid after the cook in hot process, however I was told that even then, it would cause the lye to "unsaponify"; leaving me with an oily mess.  Based on your comment, would you agree with this statement, or could one add the citric acid after the cook to help with lowering pH?  
I am only asking because I would very much like to find a shampoo bar that works for me, but as of yet, all the recipes have fallen short.  Hair is either oily, straw-like or frizzy; even with an acid rinse.  I'm about to give up for a sulfate-free shampoo, that hopefully won't make my hair fall out.
Thanks!


----------



## Alaska beauty

Shampoo soap will react with your hair better, but it was not happened right away. Everybody different. No universal shampoo formulation. One of my friends ending to make 35 recipes of shampoo soaps before she found her perfect one. For some people the best high cleaning shampoo, for other like this 0 cleaning the best. Some one love broccoli and mustard oils in them shampoos, some one lanolin, some one silk, clay, Shea butter, bees wax. It's not only about PH. Did you try simple castile on your hair? For my best shampoo bar difference ending to be in Lactic and Citric acid aded to water and Silk amino acid at the end.  Don't give up


----------



## FlybyStardancer

DeeAnna-why would it make a difference adding the citric acid to hp after the cook? For liquid soaps we know that the lye will break from the salt with the fatty acids to react with citric acid even though it's being added after the soap is cooked through saponification.


----------



## lreynolds

green soap said:


> This discussion is so interesting.  My mom would also buy Ivory because one of us had sensitive skin (it might have been my dad?).  I hated the smell, but for some reason I thought this is what unscented soap smelled like.  Even as a child I figured it should be unscented for sensitive skins, right?
> 
> I was so pleasantly surprised the first time I made unscented soap, that it did not smell like Ivory!  I am laughing at my naivety now.
> 
> Going back to the shampoo bars, am I glad these work for me so well!  I am not even using ACV rinse.  I do not use commercial conditioner either.  I have been working on a pre-shampoo hair conditioning oil.  It looks like between these two things (shampoo bars and pre-shampoo conditioning oil) I will never need commercial hair products again.  I do not want to bash commercial products (I think Dr Bronners is real soap and pretty good) but this gives me a sense of pride and autonomy.  And, my hair is looking and feeling better, is that great or what?



I think I am allergic to something in Dr. Bronner's. Every time I have tried to use it I start breaking out.


----------



## DeeAnna

"...why would it make a difference adding the citric acid to hp after the cook?..."

I should have qualified this; I was tired after a long day and didn't think things through as carefully as I usually do when I write about stuff like this. My apologies.

There are covalent molecules and ionic molecules. A fat molecule is pretty much covalent, meaning it would prefer to remain stable and intact for the most part without a lot of coaxing. A sodium hydroxide molecule is strongly ionic, meaning it will split apart into Na+ (sodium ion) and OH- (hydroxide ion) given only the tiniest bit of encouragement. A potassium hydroxide molecule is likewise strongly ionic. Soap is somewhere in between -- it has some ionic and some covalent characteristics from both of its parents. 

The sodium (or potassium) end of a soap molecule is the ionic part. Given the right conditions, this ion will unhitch itself from the fatty acid part of a soap molecule fairly easily. The old soap makers knew this -- they would make a harder soap out of a soft KOH soap by adding lots of salt (NaCl, table salt) to a simmering water-and-soap solution and let it cook for awhile. Some of the Na+ from the salt would replace the K+ to make a harder sodium soap. The point to keep in mind is that this replacement reaction is not complete -- only some of the finished soap ends up being sodium soap. If the soapmaker wanted a 100% sodium soap, then they had to start with a sodium lye, not potassium lye.

(edit) Adding an acid to a finished soap is somewhat different than adding the same acid to a saponifying soap batter. The soap has to break apart first before the errant sodium ion can react with the acid, and that takes a bit more encouragement due to the more covalent nature of soap. (end edit) Adding acid to a finished soap can cause the soap to un-saponify to some degree given the right conditions. The rate of this un-saponification reaction depends on the strength of the acid, the amount added, as well as other variables such as time, water content, temperature, pressure, etc. Pure fatty acids are produced in industry and the lab by making a soap and then unsaponifying it with a strong acid such as nitric, hydrochloric, or sulfuric. When the resulting salt is washed out of the mixture -- voila -- you end up with just the fatty acids.

The success of adding an acid to an HP soap without altering the soap ~too much~ will depend on the type of acid (a weak acid is better), the amount added (less is better), the water content (lower is better), and the temperature (cooler is better). The reason why a soapmaker could have reasonable success with adding some citric acid to a solid soap but have a failure adding it to a liquid soap is likely the different water content of the two.

Okay, that said, would I personally add an acid to a shampoo soap? Nope.

Even though I think adding a ~small~ amount of citric acid to a finished solid soap might work okay in the short term, I would be concerned about gradual degradation over time. If one wants to use a shampoo bar made with lye soap, then one needs to quit expecting one product to do everything -- clean, lower the pH, and condition -- and instead look at using an acidic rinse with or without a separate conditioner.

 After I shampoo with a 'poo bar, I squeeze out a dab of homemade conditioner, mix a small pinch of citric acid into the conditioner, work the mixture into my hair, leave on for 15-30 seconds, and rinse. A citric or vinegar rinse with just water didn't work well for my fine, wavy hair, but this mixture does. If a low pH in shampoo is an absolute requirement, then use surfactants with a lower intrinsic pH. They will be more chemically stable and reliable.

So now I've turned what most people want to be a black-and-white issue into a big blob of varying shades of gray. Chemistry is that way ... a lot.


----------



## lreynolds

Obsidian said:


> Its surprising how much little variation can affect the outcome. My first shampoo bars are made exactly to the recipe except for the addition of egg yolk, my second batch I had to replace part of the avocado oil with sunflower oil and I can tell a difference. It doesn't lather as good and the bars seem softer.
> I'll not deviate from the original recipe again but I do recommend adding egg yolk, it makes a really nice thick lather.



At what point do you add the egg yoke?


----------



## Alaska beauty

Natural lecithin, vitamins and extra proteins from egg. The best shampoo I ever try- raw egg yolks themselves or with half teaspoon of baking soda and mustard powder .


----------



## Lin

DeeAnna, what are your thoughts on adding a small bit of citric acid plus the extra lye to convert it to sodium citrate when making regular soap bars to help with hard water?


----------



## DeeAnna

That's what I would do, Lin. 

I was reading a Russian soaper's website last night and found the recommendation to add "...0.6 grams of NaOH (sodium hydroxide) [for every] 1 g of citric acid..." *

My math is giving me a different answer. The molecular weight of NaOH is 40 g/ mol. The MW for citric acid is 192 g/mol for anhydrous and 210 g/mol for monohydrate. I used the anhydrous MW, not that it makes a big difference in the answer. 

The molar equivalent of 1 g of citric acid, based on these numbers, is approximately 0.2 g of NaOH --
1 g citric acid * (1 mole/192 g citric acid) * (40 g NaOH/1 mole) = 40/192 = 0.21 g NaOH

Not sure if I'm missing something in my understanding of this issue. If others can clarify why 0.6 g is the correct number, kindly set me straight. The author of the 0.6 g NaOH / 1 g citric acid didn't show her math, so I can't verify for myself. It would make me feel better to know I'm using accurate information.

* Source: http://translate.googleusercontent....k.html&usg=ALkJrhhcWFBmBE0vaoLq6OiXQ6Ul5ozfSg

PS "perezhira" in this article = superfat


----------



## roseb

I love reading your posts DeeAnna...even if I don't understand half if it.  I want to be you when I grow up!


----------



## DeeAnna

<chuckle!> Thanks, Rose! I'm tickled you think that about me, but I'm often just as confused and unsure and just plain wrong as any other soaper. But I do get along with math pretty good! :crazy:


----------



## lreynolds

*Eggs and Fig*

Two questions for all you seasoned soapers out there!
1.  At what point can you add egg, or is it just the egg yoke, to CP soap?  Seems like the lye would cook it?  :?:
2.  I have used WEN shampoo, and I hear that the fig is better for curly hair.  How could you incorporate fig into Genny's original recipe?:Kitten Love:


----------



## DeeAnna

To be clear, I've personally never added egg to soap, but I looked into it awhile back. Here's what I've gleaned from several older posts on SMF, etc. about adding egg. Take this info with a grain of salt -- the stuff about benefits are just folks' opinions, not absolute truth.

*Benefits of adding egg to soap:*
...The difference in the soap is truly amazing - the lather is rich and deep as well as hugely conditioning. Good for shampoo bars. The lecithin adds shine to hair.

An egg yolk weighs about 50 g total with 3.6 g carbohydrates, 26.5 g fat, and 15.9 g protein. 10% (5 g) is fatty acids and 9% (4.5 g) is lecithin. Fatty acid blend is roughly similar to rice bran oil. Here is the fat analysis:

Unsaturated fatty acids: 
Oleic acid, 47%
Linoleic acid, 16%
Palmitoleic acid, 5%
Linolenic acid, 2%

Saturated fatty acids: 
Palmitic acid, 23%
Stearic acid, 4%
Myristic acid, 1%

*General method of use:*
Remove the chalazae before using any form of egg in soap.

Egg yolk only: ...Use one yolk PPO. You also need to temper the egg yolk. Beat the yolk first, then add warm oils (90-100 deg F), and beat. Add the egg-oil mixture to the rest of your oils without your lye and blend it really, really well. Add your lye and soap as usual. 

Whole egg: ...I used whole eggs. I removed all of the ropey white stuff (chalazae) that I could. I used the stick blender to beat the whole eggs, added some warm oil to the eggs, beat that mixture and added it to the rest of the oils, beat that together with the stick blender then added the lye and blended to thin trace.

Egg white only: ...if you whip the egg whites you can add that to your lye water and then beat it again. I use my SB to do the whipping of the egg whites and again in the lye water.

Removing the chalazae and yolk membrane: ...I put one of my egg yolks in a fine wire-mesh strainer. I broke it and had to push it around with my finger to get the thick yolk to leak through the wire. When it was all through, even though the yolk was clean from that slimy white thing (you know what I'm talking about!) [chalazae] there was [also] a yolk membrane left behind in the strainer. This method may save egg-yolk soaps from getting those funky clumps in it.

...make sure to remove the thin membrane that surrounds the yolk first. You don't want to add the membrane to the soap or it will add white lumps or curdles. What I did when I made mine is this: after I first separated the yolk completely intact from the white, I poked a small hole in the thin, transparent membrane that surrounds the yolk and holds it together. I then let the yolk run freely out of the hole into a cup and threw the membrane away.

*Results:*
...Ummm, well, you know when you overcook a hardboiled egg and it gets the green sulfur rim around the yolk? That's the color the gelled soap reminds me of. Turned this weird sort of olive green tint.... Smelled terrible until this morning. Smells like the EOs now. At any rate, no problems at all with the egg yolks; tempered and added to oils. ... The odd green color I mentioned previously disappeared completely and it's now the lovely yellow again. Smells great, lather is amazing.
...The scent will settle out. I find it smells awful for about a week and settles down.
...I neglected to remove the chalazae, so there are little white specks in the soap that I could feel on my skin. I'll just pretend they're for exfoliation!

*Ingredient listing:*
...Lotioncrafters lists dry egg as Ovum. They list regular egg as egg. If you include a blurb on the label about added protein and lecithin of egg, then it might look great to the consumer even if you don't make any claims about the benefits of egg.

*Sources: *
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/printthread.php?t=18164
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=32119
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=6299


----------



## seven

i have an egg powder... hmmm, this might be fun. not a fan of handling raw egg


----------



## Tienne

DeeAnna said:


> That's what I would do, Lin.
> 
> I was reading a Russian soaper's website last night and found the recommendation to add "...0.6 grams of NaOH (sodium hydroxide) [for every] 1 g of citric acid..." *
> 
> My math is giving me a different answer. The molecular weight of NaOH is 40 g/ mol. The MW for citric acid is 192 g/mol for anhydrous and 210 g/mol for monohydrate. I used the anhydrous MW, not that it makes a big difference in the answer.
> 
> The molar equivalent of 1 g of citric acid, based on these numbers, is approximately 0.2 g of NaOH --
> 1 g citric acid * (1 mole/192 g citric acid) * (40 g NaOH/1 mole) = 40/192 = 0.21 g NaOH
> 
> Not sure if I'm missing something in my understanding of this issue. If others can clarify why 0.6 g is the correct number, kindly set me straight. The author of the 0.6 g NaOH / 1 g citric acid didn't show her math, so I can't verify for myself. It would make me feel better to know I'm using accurate information.
> 
> * Source: http://translate.googleusercontent....k.html&usg=ALkJrhhcWFBmBE0vaoLq6OiXQ6Ul5ozfSg
> 
> PS "perezhira" in this article = superfat



The chemical formula for citric acid is C6H8O7 and for sodium citrate it's C6H5Na3O7, so don't you need 3 mol NaOH to make 1 mol sodium citrate, hence the 0.6g ? (= 3 x 0.2)


----------



## FlybyStardancer

That's right, Tienne. Three molecules of sodium per molecule of citric acid.  And one of the sites I read stated that the 1:.6 ratio is an average between the two forms of citric acid.


----------



## DeeAnna

Thanks, Tienne. Yes, you would be right -- it would be a 3:1 molar ratio of sodium to citric acid and 0.6 g NaOH / 1 g citric acid, if trisodium citrate is the primary species created. There's mono- and di-sodium citrate forms as well. ?


----------



## Tienne

There are a heck of a lot of sodium ions floating around in the mix. If there's a mix of mono-, di- and trisodium citrate in the citrate mix, then when it's added to the proto-soap, booming with Na+, then perhaps the equation is pushed towards favouring the trisodium version?


----------



## DeeAnna

"...perhaps the equation is pushed towards favouring the trisodium version?..."

Yes, I agree with your thoughts, Tienne. So the "learned consensus"  is trisodium citrate and a 3:1 molar ratio of NaOH to citric acid.

1 g citric acid * 3 mole/1 mole * (1 mole/192 g citric acid) * (40 g NaOH/1 mole) = 40*3/192 = 0.625 g NaOH (to be exact)

 So for every 1 gram of citric acid added to the recipe, add 0.6 g of NaOH. This is in addition to the NaOH required to make the soap.

Example:
100 g NaOH are needed to make a particular soap recipe
15 g citric acid are to be added to the recipe as well

How much extra NaOH is required to react with the citric acid to make sodium citrate?
15 g citric * (0.6 g NaOH/1 gram citric) = 15 * 0.6 = 9 g NaOH to react with the citric

What then is the total NaOH needed for the recipe?
Total NaOH = 100 g for the soap + 9 g for the citric = 100 + 9 = 109 g


----------



## lreynolds

DeeAnna said:


> <chuckle!> Thanks, Rose! I'm tickled you think that about me, but I'm often just as confused and unsure and just plain wrong as any other soaper. But I do get along with math pretty good! :crazy:





DeeAnna said:


> To be clear, I've personally never added egg to soap, but I looked into it awhile back. Here's what I've gleaned from several older posts on SMF, etc. about adding egg. Take this info with a grain of salt -- the stuff about benefits are just folks' opinions, not absolute truth.
> 
> *Benefits of adding egg to soap:*
> ...The difference in the soap is truly amazing - the lather is rich and deep as well as hugely conditioning. Good for shampoo bars. The lecithin adds shine to hair.
> 
> An egg yolk weighs about 50 g total with 3.6 g carbohydrates, 26.5 g fat, and 15.9 g protein. 10% (5 g) is fatty acids and 9% (4.5 g) is lecithin. Fatty acid
> blend is roughly similar to rice bran oil. Here is the fat analysis:
> 
> Unsaturated fatty acids:
> Oleic acid, 47%
> Linoleic acid, 16%
> Palmitoleic acid, 5%
> Linolenic acid, 2%
> 
> 
> Saturated fatty acids:
> Palmitic acid, 23%
> Stearic acid, 4%
> Myristic acid, 1%
> 
> *General method of use:*
> Remove the chalazae before using any form of egg in soap.
> 
> 
> Egg yolk only: ...Use one yolk PPO. You also need to temper the egg yolk. Beat the yolk first, then add warm oils (90-100 deg F), and beat. Add the egg-oil mixture to the rest of your oils without your lye and blend it really, really well. Add your lye and soap as usual.
> 
> Whole egg: ...I used whole eggs. I removed all of the ropey white stuff
> (chalazae) that I could. I used the stick blender to beat the whole eggs, added some warm oil to the eggs, beat that mixture and added it to the rest of the oils, beat that together with the stick blender then added the lye and blended to thin trace.
> 
> Egg white only: ...if you whip the egg whites you can add that to your lye water and then beat it again. I use my SB to do the whipping of the egg whites and again in the lye water.
> 
> 
> Removing the chalazae and yolk membrane: ...I put one of my egg yolks in a fine wire-mesh strainer. I broke it and had to push it around with my finger to get the thick yolk to leak through the wire. When it was all through, even though the yolk was clean from that slimy white thing (you know what I'm talking about!) [chalazae] there was [also] a yolk membrane left behind in the strainer. This method may save egg-yolk soaps from getting those funky clumps in it.
> 
> ...make sure to remove the thin membrane that surrounds the yolk first. You don't want to add the membrane to the soap or it will add white lumps or curdles. What I did when I made mine is this: after I first separated the yolk completely intact from the white, I poked a small hole in the thin, transparent membrane that surrounds the yolk and holds it together. I then let the yolk run freely out of the hole into a cup and threw the membrane away.
> 
> *Results:*
> ...Ummm, well, you know when you overcook a hardboiled egg and it gets the green sulfur rim around the yolk? That's the color the gelled soap reminds me of. Turned this weird sort of olive green tint.... Smelled terrible until this morning. Smells like the EOs now. At any rate, no problems at all with the egg yolks; tempered and added to oils. ... The odd green color I mentioned previously disappeared completely and it's now the lovely yellow again. Smells great, lather is amazing.
> ...The scent will settle out. I find it smells awful for about a week and settles down.
> ...I neglected to remove the chalazae, so there are little white specks in the soap that I could feel on my skin. I'll just pretend they're for exfoliation!
> 
> *Ingredient listing:*
> ...Lotioncrafters lists dry egg as Ovum. They list regular egg as egg. If you include a blurb on the label about added protein and lecithin of egg, then it might look great to the consumer even if you don't make any claims about the benefits of egg.
> 
> *Sources: *
> http://www.soapmakingforum.com/printthread.php?t=18164
> http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=32119
> http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=6299





Great info!!!  Thank you!!!


----------



## Tienne

lreynolds said:


> Two questions for all you seasoned soapers out there!
> 1.  At what point can you add egg, or is it just the egg yoke, to CP soap?  Seems like the lye would cook it?  :?:
> 2.  I have used WEN shampoo, and I hear that the fig is better for curly hair.  How could you incorporate fig into Genny's original recipe?:Kitten Love:



I've added egg yolk to soap. I strain the yolk into a small oiled bowl through a small sieve to keep the membrane back and then I just add it to the oils as is and SB it well and then just proceed as usual, adding rhe lye water and so on. I haven't experienced any bad smell to the soap or any off-green discolouration, but it does colour the soap to a more opaque light mustardy yellow colour than otherwise and the lather is thick and dense. 

I've also tried rebatching an egg soap and that went surprisingly well, too! I wondered if the soap would end up grainy (as in scrambled egg soap), but nope! The soap is smooth and the lather is still thick and dense. I would say the rebatched soap has a little more of a slick feeling to it, like a Castile, but not in the slimy way, but in that slick, slippery sort of way, if you know what I mean. It feels nice!

Edit:  The CP egg soap was soaped at room temp.


----------



## Lin

I have 5g citric acid with 3 grams lye to balance ppo down in my soap notes, I believe that was from flyby. I know thats who I first saw discussing citric acid with the lye to balance used as a chelating agent and started looking into it. We have hard water where I'm at now, and most likely when I move (gotta move by June at the latest) I'm going to have hard water. Someday I'd like to buy a water softener since I have so many issues with hard water on my skin.


----------



## grayceworks

lreynolds said:


> I think I am allergic to something in Dr. Bronner's. Every time I have tried to use it I start breaking out.



Dr Bronners is NOT Castile. It is misleadingly labelled. If you read the ingredients, it is primarily coconut oil, which some people are sensitive to.

By contrast, Castile is pure olive oil, and is considered good for people with sensitivities usually.


----------



## QueenBeeSoap

lreynolds said:


> With curls, what type of clay do you recommend?



I used bentonite clay in mine, which someone else suggested would help with curls earlier in this thread.

I've just tried my shampoo soap on my very long curly hair after a 6+ week cure.  I was impressed with the rich, creamy lather (I currently use a "low-poo" shampoo, so I'm not used to a ton of lather while washing my hair).  It left my hair unpleasantly squeaky clean and sticky while rinsing, and straw-like as soon as it dried, though.    My husband tried it on his short hair and had the same experience, except he also felt it left his hair a bit greasy.  I'll have to give it another chance after a longer cure time or with a vinegar rinse, or decide if it's worth sticking with it to see if my hair will adjust. 

I love this recipe for a facial soap, though, so it definitely won't go to waste!  The creamy lather is perfect, and it leaves my skin feeling soft and moisturized.


----------



## lreynolds

grayceworks said:


> Dr Bronners is NOT Castile. It is misleadingly labelled. If you read the ingredients, it is primarily coconut oil, which some people are sensitive to.
> 
> By contrast, Castile is pure olive oil, and is considered good for people with sensitivities usually.


 
I rub coconut oil all over me, often, with no problems.  Strange!


----------



## grayceworks

lreynolds said:


> I rub coconut oil all over me, often, with no problems.  Strange!


The difference is that coconut oil soap can be very harsh, as it's good at stripping the oils from your skin. Which makes your skin produce too much oil trying to replace it. Which can cause breakouts.


----------



## Kansas Farm Girl

QueenBeeSoap said:


> It left my hair unpleasantly squeaky clean and sticky while rinsing, and straw-like as soon as it dried, though.



I found that to be true when I first used this shampoo bar also, but I did the apple cider vinegar rinse for awhile and then my hair seemed to adjust to it. I also used a hair conditioner recipe I found on Bramble Berry because my hair was so dry & brittle.

My 2nd batch of shampoo bars was a bust for my hair, I forgot to change the SF on my calc and ended up with something over 7%, so my hair is left feeling oily/greasy. I use that batch for face or body soap.

My hair dresser says my hair went from dry/brittle to moist and soft quickly and is impressed with the condition my hair is in now. I don't use the ACV now and only the conditioner occasionally and have really soft manageable hair.

So give it some time and see if your hair adjusts like mine did.


----------



## jules92207

I have been using Gennys recipe for about a month now and have mixed results. I think the biggest challenge I have is getting it to rinse out. Last night I lathered in my hands and then rubbed it in my hair instead of rubbing the bar right on my head and notice an improvement. If I rub it directly it seems to leave a greasy feel too once in a while.

I imagine this is just a matter of rinsing and if I did a vinegar rinse this might help?


----------



## AnnaMarie

I swapped out the soy bean for sunflower in this recipe. I've been using it for a week now, and I can't believe how soft my hair is. The last shampoo bar I tried made my hair yucky!
Cheers!
Anna Marie


----------



## jules92207

I will try sunflower next time and see if that helps - thanks!

It isnt every time either, I have used it and my hair has been so soft and manageable for a whole week so that is why I am thinking it might be just a matter of rinsing enough.

Also the body - wow!


----------



## lreynolds

About how much EO should I use?

At what point do you add your sugar?  And, so you think honey might work instead of sugar?


----------



## Obsidian

You can use .5 ounces of EO per pound of oil. Save out a ounce or two of water, dissolve your sugar or honey in that and add it at trace.


----------



## betsbird

I make shampoo bars also and I love the way this recipe looks! I am going to be making this one soon! Thanks for posting the recipe.


----------



## roseb

AnnaMarie said:


> I swapped out the soy bean for sunflower in this recipe. I've been using it for a week now, and I can't believe how soft my hair is. The last shampoo bar I tried made my hair yucky!
> Cheers!
> Anna Marie



I  also swapped out the soybean for sunflower just because I like sunflower.  I have been using my poo-bar for several months now.  My hair is so nice, I don't even need to use any conditioner or an acv rinse.  

I hate when I get a hair cut now and have to wash my hair with their shampoo.  It feels so greasy and yucky.  Thinking of bringing along my poo-bar next time...hee hee


----------



## Belinda02

My experience which is probably long and confusing; I used almond instead of the avocado oil otherwise same recipe.

I used this the first time when it was about 2 weeks old because I'd had a perm and was out of my regular shampoo.  The result was my perm was curlier and much fuller.  It was almost as if I had twice as much hair which is good.   Bad was my hair felt gummy.  Same after second washing but not as gummy.   Third time I skipped the shampoo and did a vinegar rinse which helped but my hair is still gummy. Gross

My regular shampoo is Pantene and research shows this brand has added wax.  I don't know if the wax is starting to come off making my hair less heavy and curlier and fuller.  The wax might have made my hair clump and slick.   

The next 3 washings are at our sons on spring break.  He provides us with Pantene but no way am I going to use that junk. I used grand children's Johnson body wash.  Better.

Home and the shampoo bar is now a full 4 weeks old.  Hair still gummy but not as bad. I'm wondering if people talk about hair adjusting to a shampoo bar when in reality we are getting commercial additives off our hair.  A vinegar rinse helps but hair remains gummy but seems less so or I'm getting use to it.  On the plus this is the best perm and I have a ton of hair or I'd give up.


----------



## Obsidian

My hair is also considerably more curly using shampoo bars. I've always had wavy hair but I would never call it curly, now it is curly. I believe you are right about the gunk in out hair taking time to wash completely out. I've heard some people using baking soda once a week or so to help clarify their hair while making the switch.
Keep up with it, it only gets better


----------



## Belinda02

Thanks.  I'll try the baking soda.


----------



## FlybyStardancer

Just tried my bar for the first time today! Mine is OO infused with chamomile, calendula, and lemon zest (40%), Avocado (30%), and Jojoba, Castor, and Mango Seed Butter (10% each), 6% superfat, and the water was a tea made from marshmallow root, with a storebought pack each of chamomile and lemon tea.

The first time I did was lather up my hair, and then I let it sit as I did other washings, and rinsed my hair last before getting out of the shower. I also did a citric acid rinse after getting the soap out.

My hair doesn't feel straw-like (it did the times I used a regular bar and my 20%SF coconut bar, and the coconut bar also left my hair with a slight greasiness). It does feel odd... I think that's because I'm simply not used to the way hair feels when it's not stripped clean. It had some tangles while combing, but nowhere near the worst I've dealt with. Overall I think it's a success!


----------



## Susie

I made these about 3 months ago.  I just yesterday got around to trying them out.  I LOVE THEM.  I just can't tell you how much I love the feel they give to my hair.  Now, I don't know what my hair is going to be like in a couple of weeks, but for this frizzy curly hair so far, it is wonderful.


----------



## Lindy

I have to say how thrilled I am that people are finding they can make a CP shampoo bar and enjoy it.


----------



## Alvacado

Thanks for sharing, I really love the CP shampoo bar and will absolutely try it.


----------



## Susie

The real kicker, Lindy, is that I made 4 batches of liquid shampoo thus far, and have decided that commercial shampoo is better.(and very sad about that)  But, I found the shampoo bars that I made for my much travelling family members, and thought I might give them a quick try before giving up on the whole homemade shampoo thing.  So, I am actually shocked at how much better the bars work than the liquid!  Especially after reading how much people dislike shampoo bars in general.  I don't actually know why this is, but I truly do LOVE these shampoo bars.


----------



## Lindy

Susie that is awesome.  I find that the shampoo bar more gentle and since you are not adding a huge amount of water you don't need surfactants to make it lather.


----------



## Dahila

I made it 6 weeks ago, I had not tried it yet, it does not give a lot of lather....will try to lather it in my hands then put it on the hair, maybe in 2 or 3 weeks.  I keep my fingers cross that it works for me) Thank you Lindy


----------



## kdaniels8811

I have made a bunch of variations with this recipe and they all rock, thank you so much for sharing!  This is now a family favorite shampoo bar and I also did not like shampoo bars previously.  I love this forum!


----------



## Susie

I rubbed the bar straight onto the hair.  No pre-lathering required.  I did try to lather the bar at 6 weeks with very minimal lather.  At 3 months, it is awesome.


----------



## Lindy

The real work on this was done by Genny when she formulated something and then shared her recipe.  Now that is true generousity of spirit.


----------



## danielle22033

I was wondering what you meant by "Water as percent of oil weight: 35%"?


----------



## jules92207

Its truly a gem, Genny shared a wonderful recipe, I have now been using it for a few months and the bigger the lather I get going the cleaner and better my hair feels. I can go almost a week without washing it again now.


----------



## FlybyStardancer

danielle--it means that you take however much the oil weighs, multiply it by .35, and use that for the water. It's the default method for calculating water amounts on the SoapCalc lye calculator--default is 38%.


----------



## soap1daze

Hallo everyone.  My name is Pam and I'm a soapaddled brain fragrance tramp!  Thank you for indulging me in your forum!  I've been hooked for 5 years plus!   

Yes I need help and well also some understanding something about this shampoo soap please.  I run everything thru soapcalc before I make it.  I was going to make this soap but noticed the cleansing range was 0 as in zero.  How can this clean the hair when it has no cleansing range?  Thank you so much.

Oh also I don't have any soybean oil and wonder if it would be ok to substitute ako?


----------



## Relle

Ruthie said:


> Cleansing just means the soap will attract oils. It is not whether the soap will get you clean.
> Read about it here: http://www.soapcalc.net/info/SoapQualities.asp



 Previous post.


----------



## soap1daze

Thank you Relle.  I have read those guidelines and forgotten them!

Do you think the apricot kernel oil will be ok to substitute for the soybean?  I don't have any soybean oil and I want to do the recipe as close to Genny's original as I can without ordering more oil!


----------



## Lin

If you read the entire thread (again if you already have) a lot of people substituted the Soybean oil with a couple different thinks like Sunflower or Avocado.


----------



## FlybyStardancer

Did my second wash with my shampoo bar. My hair's still drying, but it's dry enough to feel that it's slightly oily. I'm hoping this is a combo of my hair adjusting to the shampoo bar from SLS-based shampoo and a slightly different rinse procedure than last time. The first time I used it, I had enough acidic rinse that I was able to rinse out the acid and anything it might have found, and then added a big more acidic rinse to my hair to seal the shaft from my hard, alkaline water. (This second rinse is going to be replaced with a leave-in conditioner, but I'm waiting on preservative and an emulsifier for that, just shipped today.)


----------



## MadMadamMim

I've been using my shampoo bar for several weeks now and am pretty happy with it.  I used a whopping 30% coconut oil (didn't find this forum until after I made it) but surprisingly, it works pretty well.  I should note that I have oily hair.  

However, I would like to have something more moisturizing to alternate with so I made a new batch this weekend, using only 15% coconut oil.  I also used the information I learned here to make sodium tricitrate with citric acid and additional lye in the lye water since I have hard water.  Looking forward to trying the new batch!


----------



## Obsidian

FlybyStardancer said:


> Did my second wash with my shampoo bar. My hair's still drying, but it's dry enough to feel that it's slightly oily. I'm hoping this is a combo of my hair adjusting to the shampoo bar.



Sometimes it can take a couple weeks or longer for your hair to adjust. My mom had a terrible time when she first started using shampoo bars, her hair was oily and sticky feeling but she stuck with it. Now her hair is soft and smooth.


----------



## soapylondon

My bars will be 6 weeks cured this week. I am both excited and scared to make the switch from commercial shampoo. I love how my hair feels after tons of conditioner, all those silicones being washed away, I wonder what is beneath all that. Wish me luck.


----------



## Obsidian

You have more patience then me, I start using my shampoo bars at 2 weeks. Your hair will feel different, especially when its wet but give it time and you will wonder why you ever like the commercial stuff.
My hair is thicker and has more body without being frizzy. For the first time in 40+ year, I'm actually happy with my hairs texture.


----------



## lreynolds

soap1daze said:


> Hallo everyone. My name is Pam and I'm a soapaddled brain fragrance tramp! Thank you for indulging me in your forum! I've been hooked for 5 years plus!
> 
> Yes I need help and well also some understanding something about this shampoo soap please. I run everything thru soapcalc before I make it. I was going to make this soap but noticed the cleansing range was 0 as in zero. How can this clean the hair when it has no cleansing range? Thank you so much.
> 
> Oh also I don't have any soybean oil and wonder if it would be ok to substitute ako?


 
As I learned, reading through the posts, soybean oil is what most  vegetable oil, you buy at the grocery, is made of.


----------



## sandyharv

thanks for the great shampoo bar recipe...I can't wait to try it.....I'm sure this has been asked before but the thread is so long to look thru all the replies....I was wondering if I can hp this in a crockpot?......I am going to make a cp batch but thought I would make a small hp batch to try while I'm waiting for the cp batch to cure


----------



## Obsidian

Yes, you can HP it. You still need to let it cure though.


----------



## jules92207

I HPd mine and it still needed a good cure. Gets better every day.


----------



## sandyharv

thanks for letting me know that I can hp it......does it take the usual around 2 weeks to cure to get a harder bar.....I know that you can use hp right away but it is better to cure it for a couple weeks for a harder bar


----------



## Obsidian

Yeah, I started using my HP shampoo at 2 weeks. It will get harder and last a lot longer if you cure if for longer though. If you have sodium lactate, use some.


----------



## jules92207

I used mine pretty quickly and it was really soft and difficult to lather with. Its been curing about 8 weeks now and its significantly better - thicker better lather, harder bar.


----------



## neeners

been wanting to do this for a LONG time, finally read through the whole thread and watched the Soaping101 video. currently formulating my 'poo bar recipe with everyone's feedback (I have fine straight Asian hair, that doesn't look great when greasy). I'm going to stick to the original Genny/Lindy bar, but up the castor a bit while down the shea a bit (2%), and instead of soybean oil, I want to use 5%CO and maybe up the OO by 5%. 

so this is the recipe that I'm thinking of doing:
OO 45%
avocado 30% (mine has vit E in it)
castor 12%
shea 8%
CO 5%

 SF 3% b/c i don't want to bog down my fine hair with too much extra oils.....

I want to infuse the OO with rosemary and holy basil (tulsi). liquids to include kefir and aloe juice, possibly some milk. and I'm going to add a bit of clay for detox (maybe red clay to bring out the red in my hair?). lastly, rosemary, lavender and tea tree EOs.

what do you experienced soapers think? (yes...I've been thinking about this for a while.....)


----------



## InNae

squyars said:


> Ivory's list of ingredients include: Sodium Tallowate, Sodium Palmate, Water, Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Glycerin, Sodium Chloride, Fragrance, Coconut Acid, Palm Kernel Acid, Tallow Acid, Palm Acid, Tetrasodium EDTA.
> 
> It is the EDTA that is included to reduce lime scale in your shower. It is considered mostly biodegradable except in conditions of high pH (Ivory's pH is 9.5). It has also been shown to have cytotoxic and genotoxic effects on lab animals.



OK... So I'm reading through all of this thread and the statement about EDTA just didn't add up for me. I'm a chemist and use it as a preservative for some of the stuff that I do (not food related), but there are no precautions required when using EDTA. So a bit of research later I found this article on pubmed. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12396676

What pertains most to this thread is the line that states:

_Clinical tests reported no absorption of an EDTA salt through the skin._

Now, EDTA does have some of the effects stated when inhaled in high dosages when it is ingested in high amounts, which they state was unlikely. 

So... If you're using EDTA in your soap you should be OK unless you get hungry and eat it (I know that they sometimes look good enough to eat) and even then you should be OK unless you eat a couple hundred bars a day for an extended duration. 

I can appreciate the desire to avoid unwanted chemicals. I too am making soap to get away from those chemicals because I have allergic reactions to many things in soaps and lotions. I spent a couple of months on steroids trying to figure out what was making my face break out in hives. Finally figured out it was a cream that my wife was using on her face that according to a dermatologist shouldn't have anything that would cause a reaction. roblem:

I think we should all be proud of what we make and shout about the benefits of our soaps and not go the way of political campaigns with the smear tactics for other products. 

InNae


----------



## Obsidian

neeners said:


> so this is the recipe that I'm thinking of doing:
> OO 45%
> avocado 30% (mine has vit E in it)
> castor 12%
> shea 8%
> CO 5%
> 
> SF 3% b/c i don't want to bog down my fine hair with too much extra oils.....
> 
> what do you experienced soapers think? (yes...I've been thinking about this for a while.....)



I didn't run it through lyecalc but I think it will be a nice bar. I've done a few different variations and they all are pretty nice.
Let use know how the low SF does, I think I'll do the same with my next batch. I usually do 5% SF but it seems to be a bit much at times.


----------



## neeners

yea, I usually do 6% SF for every soap, but I figure b/c my hair is fine, a higher SF would make it too heavy....  i'll let you know when I actually get around to making it.  I clipped the herbs from the garden and they're drying now.  yay!


----------



## Nikkor

I haven't been able to fall asleep for some reason tonight so I read through this entire thread. 

One thing I did notice is that with all the substituting of oils from the original recipe, not one person has tried palm oil. Is there a reason for this aside from the personal feelings over environmental impact?


----------



## Relle

I used palm instead of shea because it's too expensive, have made two logs now and love how they turned out.


----------



## neeners

so I made my shampoo bar yesterday!  I was going to stick pretty close to the original recipe, until I remember how expensive avocado oil is down here (over $3/oz).  I had some leftover, so I just used what I had.  I've also been using my new years castile the last 2 washes, and my hair has been feeling great!  which made me want to try a high OO bastille recipe for my 'poo bar.  and, this is the result!

 avocado 8.8%
 castor 7.1%
 CO 5%
 OO 72%
 SB 7.1%

 SF 3% - I have fine-ish straight Asian hair, so I didn't want too much extra oils and make my hair heavy

 used soured raw goat milk (so like yogurt) and aloe, added 1/2 tsp French red clay, and OO infused with holy basil and rosemary.  scented with lavender, rosemary and tea tree. 

 pretty in pink 'poo bar!  now the true test.....waiting at least 2 weeks before giving it a try!  waiting is so darn hard!!!!!


----------



## shunt2011

I made original recipe many months (6+mos) ago and tried it once cured and did not have any luck with it.  However, I found it buried in a container and decided to revist it.  Well, it's wonderful now.   I've used it twice and my hair feels so good.  I have relatively sort thick, heavy wavy color-processed mixed with a lot of grey hair.   I just might have to make some more and let it cure a long time.  Thank you for sharing all this wonderful information.  I think I'll tweak it a bit and see what happens.


----------



## Robert B

I am going to add my name to the list who love the shampoo bar.  Thanks for sharing!

It lathers up so well!  I made it by trying out the Hot Process method for the first time. I gave some away to people I work with.  2 of the guys want more in the future.  2 of the woman have not used it yet.


----------



## LunaSkye

I'll have to try this recipe next month... or maybe the original recipe.  In any case, I'm glad you made this thread as I eventually want to try  my had at shampoo bars. :grin:


----------



## Susie

Now that everyone has helped me use up a great deal of my previous 'poo bars, here is the new recipe I just started using.  I think I like it better, but I need to do a side-by-side comparison.  I got it from a Good Earth Spa  YouTube video.(I may have tweaked it, but that is what I have as the name, and my search ability is limited by sleep deprivation at the moment.)

Coconut Oil(76 degree)-4oz
Castor Oil-4oz
Almond Oil-4oz
Olive Oil, pomace-4oz
Jojoba Oil-0.5oz


----------



## kmarvel

Lindy,

 I want to try and make some shampoo bars.  I see people "infusing" herbs in their oils.  How exactly do you do that??  And how long is the cure time for these bars??

 Kathie


----------



## kmarvel

Genny,
 I am going to try your shampoo recipe as soon as I get avocado oil.  I would like to infuse some rosemary into some oils but I don't know the process of infusion of herbs in oils.  Can you help me out??    
 Thank you

 Kathie


----------



## Dahila

Dry rosemary into jar, cover with the oil close the jar, and let it stand for 2-4 weeks in warm place , shake daily.  Then strain it and use the oil)
Then another way: 
topic on subject on this forum


----------



## Hazel

There is a good tutorial on about.com http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/coldprocesssoapmaking/ht/htoilinfusion.htm


----------



## Genny

kmarvel said:


> Genny,
> I am going to try your shampoo recipe as soon as I get avocado oil.  I would like to infuse some rosemary into some oils but I don't know the process of infusion of herbs in oils.  Can you help me out??
> Thank you
> 
> Kathie



Kathie, when I do an infusion that I need soon.  I take my herbs, put them in a clean sterile jar and pour just enough oil over them to make sure my herbs are fully covered.  I put water in my double boiler and then put the jar in it.  On low to medium heat I warm the oils/herbs for 20-40 minutes.  Then afterwards I let it cool a little and then I strain out the herbs.


----------



## kmarvel

Dahila,

 Thank you!!!!


----------



## kmarvel

Genny,

 I have a wonderful Rosemary plant I would like to infuse.  Does it matter which oil it is you use??  And then, I am assuming I calculate this oil into the weight of the oil for the recipe.    If that makes sense.  haha
 Thank you.

 I have learned a lot about shampoo bars, recipes that people use, how to infuse herbs into oils and that soybean oil is actually vegetable oil.  All within 3 cups of coffee here in the morning!!  haha     

 Kathie


----------



## Obsidian

Kathie, its best to use dried herbs for infusing, fresh can mold relatively quickly. It doesn't matter which oil you use to infuse but I generally use OO and yes, you calculate that oil into the weight of the oil for the recipe.


----------



## kmarvel

Genny,  when I run this thru the soap calc it looks weird to me.  The hardness is at 20.  The bubbly is only 9 and the INS is 99.  With your recipe, is this the way it is supposed to look like??  I am just curious.

 Kathie


----------



## kmarvel

Good to know, Obsidian.  Thank you!!!


----------



## Obsidian

Of course and yes, the numbers for a shampoo bar are unusual. I like to add a little sugar to mine for extra bubbles and either salt or sodium lactate for hardness.


----------



## Dahila

the bar is kind of soft but I love it.  I often wash my face with it and the body
Obsidian is right the dry , very dry herbs are the best to infuse, I used highly oleic sunflower plus calendula and I absolutely love the body butter I made with it.  I use oo to infuse because it has a long shelf life.  
Next time I make it I will add the sugar too


----------



## kmarvel

Obsidian, how much sugar do you use??


----------



## Obsidian

2 tsp PPO.


----------



## Dahila

Obsidian would you mind telling me how much sodium lactate to add, and when.  I would appreciate the answer


----------



## Obsidian

For the shampoo bar, I use 2 tsp PPO and I add it to my cooled lye water.


----------



## Bubli

I see people here talk about adding citric acid to lye water.  I just saw a tutorial on bramble berry for shampoo bar where they added it to trace.  Is the outcome different if you do it different?  As someone else already explained to me that adding in lye creates sodium citrate, which apparently is not the same thing   this would be to increase bubbles,  right?  I'm confused because I see others talk about lowering ph,  and smoothing hair shaft and not need ac vinegar rinse  ( which is why I am interested in it).  Does  it make a difference how you add it? Why do some add it to lye water and others at trace.  Like I said my interest would be helping to prevent that build up I get with hard water without the use of rinse.


----------



## Bubli

Crocoturtle said:


> If you do a vinegar rinse it does not leave any smell in your hair but that being said, if you want to lower the PH of the bar you can add 1T ppo of citric acid, it will keep the cuticle of the hair smoothed.
> 
> 
> clay is good for curly hair. I wouldn't put a lot at first.



Is this added at trace, mixed with a little water?  I have also seem people mix in lye water. Is there a reason for the different method?  And this WILL leave your hair with the effect of using a vinegar rinse, right?


----------



## Obsidian

Citric acid in soap does not smooth your hair, there really is no replacement for a acid rinse when using a shampoo bar. Do you not like using vinegar? You can mix up citric acid with water and use it instead, no smell but still smooths the hair.

Not sure what clay does for hair. I think its terrible in soap, I'd never put it in my hair willing. Maybe it helps remove excess oil. You can add it anytime in any way you want really. When I add in dry ingredients, I always mix with water then blend into the oils. I like to have time to get it blended in really well before the lye is added.


----------



## Bubli

Oh, no Im fine using vinegar rinse, the smell doesn't bother me,  it actually works better than store bought conditioner. I have just seen some people say that that's what citric acid does in the soap, Is to keep nappy build up from happening,  then others say it builds bubbles. CONFUSED!   and I'm just trying to figure it out.  I just thought that if it did do that,  then why not just add citric acid to the soap instead of using the rinse.  So what does it do them,  lower the ph?  Which in reality does what?  Make it more mild?  Is there a good site you can recommend that teaches about additives?  Thanks for your help.


----------



## Obsidian

I don't know of any sites that explain additives, sorry. 

I found this in another post, maybe it will help some.
_Citric acid is used to create sodium citrate for a chelating agent/hard water softener/lather booster. For every 1000 grams of oils, you would add 10 g of citric acid  and 6 g of extra lye to your water solution to create sodium citrate  without extra superfat._

What you don't use citric acid for is lowering the PH. If you lower the PH too much, you won't have soap anymore, just a globby mess. Many people mistakenly think you can make soap with a lower PH so they add some kind of acid to their soap and all the really do is neutralize some of the lye, effectively increasing the SF.


----------



## Bubli

AWSOME.  Thanks so much!  Huge help


----------



## soapylondon

Hi, i have started using my shampoo bar. I have used it about 7 times in 2 weeks with odd results. First I went through the adapting period, that took 4 washes and after that my hair was starting to feel shiny and looked clean, but after that I have had different results. 
Yesterday I washed it as usual and decided to do a citric acid rinse. 1 teaspoon in 3 litres of water, rinsed it and when I dried it it was oily! More oily than it was before washing it. This shampoo has 15% coconut oil.
I jumped in the shower again and washed it but I didn't do the citric acid rinse and it felt more squeaky clean, when dry it was still not perfect. This morning I thought I would rinse it in the shower with water just in case it was un proper rinsing. It's ok but still feels weird. Do you think that after 7 washes my hair is still adapting? Is the acidic rinse causing oiliness? Please help, I am very confused. Thanks


----------



## Bubli

Took me about a month, and I wash every day.  I use apple cider vinegar though,  about 1 tablespoon to a 16 oz. bottle of water every time I shampoo and my hair is smooth and soft like silk.  Yes I have very hard water.  If i don't use the rinse,  then I get that tacky heavy feel. Good luck.


----------



## soapylondon

Thanks bubli, do you rinse with water after the acv rinse or just leave the rinse in the hair? Do you rub the bar from roots to ends or just roots. Thanks again.


----------



## Bubli

I have really long fine hair.  I swirl the bar round top of my head then all the way to tips till I feel if covered it good enough and I swipe underneath also then lather,  rinse with water REALLY well then rinse with the vinegar sollution, and then rinse with plain water.  Thats it.  Vinegar Smell goes away as soon as its rinsed off.  It works so well,  that with my long hair I can brush it immediately while its wet with no problem.  Better than store bought crap... I mean conditioner . give it a try!


----------



## Dahila

Thank you Obsidian)


----------



## Genny

Soapylondon ~  If the soap or the citric acid rinse is drying out your scalp, your scalp will produce extra oils.  So that could be what's happening.  That's why I wanted a 0 cleansing number for the shampoo bar because it wouldn't strip extra oils.


----------



## DeeAnna

"... Is the outcome different if you do it different? As someone else already explained to me that adding in lye creates sodium citrate, which apparently is not the same thing this would be to increase bubbles, right?..."

The outcome is not any different whether you add the citric acid to the lye water or if you add it at trace. There is still plenty of free lye available at trace. The lye converts the citric acid to sodium citrate. That reduces the lye available for actual saponification, if you haven't compensated by adding the appropriate amount of extra lye.

Sodium citrate doesn't add bubbles/lather. What it does is react with hard water ions to keep those ions from reacting with your soap and turning it into sticky soap scum. More soap = More bubbles. Less soap scum = Less grey buildup on fabric, tub, and skin.

"...What you don't use citric acid for is lowering the PH. If you lower the PH too much, you won't have soap anymore, just a globby mess. Many people mistakenly think you can make soap with a lower PH so they add some kind of acid to their soap and all the really do is neutralize some of the lye, effectively increasing the SF. ..."

What Obsidian said ^^^. I couldn't say it any more clearly than this. If a cleanser with a low pH is a big deal, then lye soap is not the answer -- synthetic detergents are the direction to go. Also, people seem to want soap to do many things well -- be a conditioner, cleanser, whatever -- all in one go. It doesn't work that way.


----------



## kmarvel

Lindy, my other half has very thin hair. I am going to try your recipe. I was wondering if the cure time is different than other CP soaps?? (Minimum 4 weeks)

Also, can I use a FO or EO to scent the shampoo bar??

 And I don't need to use a vinegar rinse after when using this shampoo bar, right??





thank you.

Kathie


----------



## Obsidian

Not lindy but yes, it cure like any other CP and you can scent it like regular CP too. I really do recommend a vinegar rinse regardless of which recipe you use but it might not be necessary for people with short hair.


----------



## Meganmischke

Thanks to all for all the information here! I am happy to announce that this bar is working amazing for my hair.  I did modify the original formula slightly, both accidentally and intentionally.  I hp and tried after 2 weeks. My scale was off balance and I added way too much avocado oil so I just left it any removed the oo all together.  I upped the castor by 5% and used palm and tallow combined at 25%. I added 3% argan and .5% black seed oil. I used beer as my total liquid and 2% sl. I do acv rinse.  Love it thanks again


----------



## Bridgett

I made a batch three weeks ago and just tried it out.  Slight mods- sunflower instead of soybean oil, 3% superfat, and sodium citrate. Works beautifully!  I have soft to slightly hard water, and no need for an acid rinse.  It's almost too cleansing, as well, but that may change as it cures longer.


----------



## shaan

Hi everyone! I made the soap with original recipe, with a slight change..i used some neem oil in place of complete avocado oil..avocado oil is very costly here..after a month of cure i used it today..it is very very soft..the bar reduced in size after one wash only..it was slipping off my hands and was melting rapidly..i left it as it is,may be needs more curing time..is there any way to make the bar harder and long lasting?m having this fast melting problem with other soaps as well..it cleaned off well on the scalp,but on the tips i had to use twice..after washing it twice and with acv rinse,hair feeling dry and frizzy, like normal shampoo.


----------



## Dahila

shaan the bars I made back in February are rock hard) they lather better too


----------



## jules92207

I am sorry to resurrect this monster thread but I have been going back and forth about my shampoo bar and could use a little advice.

I made Genny's shampoo bar back in March and love it. I use it for my hair and also my facial soap. My only frustration is that I seem to have a slight bit of gunk building on my hairbrush. When I originally made Genny's recipe I did 6% SF, if I just drop that maybe to 3% should the gunk go away? Or should I also add just a smidge of coconut oil to break that down?

Any thoughts?


----------



## Obsidian

I found that adding 5% coconut and dropping the SF to 3% helped with the gunk.


----------



## jules92207

Thanks, Obsidian! I was thinking just along those lines but didn't want to mess with the formula too much since I really like it.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman

Are you also doing a vinegar rinse with it or just using the bar?


----------



## jules92207

No, I don't know if a vinegar rinse is really necessary. Honestly the soap works great, I wash maybe once a week and never feel a build up, but my brush says a different story. I was looking to just add a little bit of cleansing in hopes of eliminating that. The lower SF should help too.

Just made it so I will report back in about 5-6 weeks.


----------



## Dahila

I use that shampoo bar with 5% of CO and addition of soapwort and no gunk whatever.  I use AVC rince , it is a must ) My hair is good


----------



## jules92207

I know everyone loves their vinegar rinses, I just can't bring myself to do it yet. I know, my loss, right?


----------



## Obsidian

If you can't do vinegar, a little citric acid dissolved in water will have the same affect.


----------



## Lindy

Using a vinegar rinse once a week will get rid of any "_gunk_" build-up.


----------



## DeeAnna

Yep, citric or acetic (vinegar) work fine. Ascorbic (Fruit Fresh, vitamin C) was not so good when I tried it. Stick with the first 2.


----------



## jules92207

Ok..ok..I will give it a try. I need to do something while my new bars cure anyway.


----------



## DeeAnna

Just a tiny dab of citric will do ya. Like 1/8 of a teaspoon or less.


----------



## hud

Thank you guys for this nice thread, I make shampoo bars too, I think I'll try the recipes here and share the results with you.
As for the vinegar it gives a very beautiful shiny look to the hair, and the smell goes away. It worth it to give it a try, there are a lot of books about the using of apple cider vinegar as a supplement and in daily life around the house.
As a rinse, one tbs for every 4 cups of water, even if its 1 tsp still gives good shiny look, let me know how it works for you guys.


----------



## mx5inpenn

Thanks so much for sharing the recipe.  I have curly/frizzy difficult hair.  I have wanted to get away from commercial products all together, but my hair products have held me back.  I'll be trying this one!


----------



## Obsidian

Let us know how you like it. My curls are more defined and the frizz is lessened since using handmade shampoo bars.


----------



## biarine

I made 2 types of shampoo bar and I like it but I am planning to do another one, I wanted to make a luxury shampoo bar. Anyone have tested recipe that willing to share? I will be pleased and thank you in advance.


----------



## jules92207

Ok. Tried just a little acv in water tonight and rinsed after using Genny's shampoo bar. So far I am happy, my hair feels really nice. Thanks!


----------



## true blue

I would *love *to be able to use a shampoo bar, but we have *very *hard water, and when you combine that with my oily hair ... it doesn't work, vinegar rinse or no. It works OK for my husband here at home (dry-ish hair & skin) and he says it works great when he's back east in the big city and using city water. But here at home ... for me ... 

edited to add: I even made an extra-acidic rinse once by mixing a little citric acid with my vinegar ... still didn't help! What can I say? I was desperate!


----------



## seven

acv is awesome! it makes quite a difference in my shampoo bars and liquid shampoo. i don't have to do a vinegar rinse anymore and yet my hair is still manageable. still not as soft as silicone loaded commercial shampoos, but pretty **** good..

i'll say that the effect of acv is more prominent on my liquid version than the bar. beer and acv is my current favorite combo.


----------



## soapylondon

Living in London with the most incredible hard water is frustrating. I call my shampoo bars "travelling shampoo" because I can use them everywhere else but home. 
I recently bought SLS free liquid shampoo, all natural from my soap ingredients supplier. (I don't know how to do liquid soap so i bought it)
I am using it with no issues with hard water. I need a little conditioner but that's all.
I am puzzled, Does anyone know why the liquid version works well and the shampoo bar is impossible to rinse and would lease soap residue in my hair (like glue)?
I have been using the SLS natural liquid shampoo for 2 weeks, waiting for a massive build up but nope! It's not happening, hair looks and feels good.
Any clues? Thank you.


----------



## Saponista

I have extremely soft water soapy, I will be very interested to see what happens to my soap in your hard water in the soap swap!


----------



## biarine

my Murumuru butter and green tea extract shampoo bar


----------



## kmarvel

jules92207 said:


> No, I don't know if a vinegar rinse is really necessary. Honestly the soap works great, I wash maybe once a week and never feel a build up, but my brush says a different story. I was looking to just add a little bit of cleansing in hopes of eliminating that. The lower SF should help too.
> 
> Just made it so I will report back in about 5-6 weeks.


 

Can you share your shampoo recipe??  I do not want to rinse with vinegar, citric acid or anything else.  I want to lather up, rinse and get out of the shower.   

Kathie


----------



## Obsidian

A acid rinse really should be used. The alkaline nature of soap will make the cuticle on your hair lift which can cause frizzy, tangled hair. The rinse will help flatten the cuticle back down so the hair isn't so tangled.

It just takes a second and the vinegar smell doesn't stay in your hair. I keep a small bottle of acv in the shower along with a empty yogurt container so I can quickly mix what I need. I used to keep a premixed container of diluted vinegar in the shower but it was too cold to use, I like it warm.


----------



## jules92207

kmarvel said:


> Can you share your shampoo recipe??  I do not want to rinse with vinegar, citric acid or anything else.  I want to lather up, rinse and get out of the shower.
> 
> Kathie



This is what I put together to add slight cleansing to Genny's original recipe:

Avocado oil 30%
Olive oil 35%
Castor 10%
Shea butter 10%
Soybean oil 10%
Coconut oil 5%

3% sf

I used it for the first time this week and I like it, but I am hooked on the apple cider vinegar rinses now and always rinse with it after so I don't know for sure how my hair would act without the rinse yet.


----------



## Dahila

I am using Obsidian shampoo for ever with AC rinse.   
People talk about having problems with hair so I washed my hair few times with horsetail shampoo; actually one from Europe and pretty good one.  I do not see the difference in my hair.  It is the same when I wash with my shampoo bar and use AC rinse as washing with shampoo and using conditioner.  I use conditioner anyway


----------



## soap1daze

*Shampoo Bars and sugar amount*



danielle22033 said:


> I was wondering what you meant by "Water as percent of oil weight: 35%"?




Such a lovely recipe thank you Jenny!  I'm wondering if the 1TBS of sugar is per pound of oils or for the entire batch.

To answer my own question from further reading.  Make that 2 tsp ppo.  Thanks everyone.


----------



## biarine

jules92207 said:


> This is what I put together to add slight cleansing to Genny's original recipe:
> 
> Avocado oil 30%
> Olive oil 35%
> Castor 10%
> Shea butter 10%
> Soybean oil 10%
> Coconut oil 5%
> 
> 3% sf
> 
> I used it for the first time this week and I like it, but I am hooked on the apple cider vinegar rinses now and always rinse with it after so I don't know for sure how my hair would act without the rinse yet.




It seems very good recipe


----------



## jules92207

I hope so, I like Genny's a lot but this does help with the left over gunk.


----------



## EmBlakey

*soybean replacement*

I don't have and can't seem to get soybean oil...is there something I can use instead of it? Would canola work similarly? Very keen to try this! I'm desperate for a shampoo recipe for both straw-for-hair and super fine/greasy hairhttp://www.soapmakingforum.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## Obsidian

You can use olive oil or avocado instead of soy. If you are in the US, soybean oil is sold as vegetable oil, just check the ingredient list. Personally, I dropped the soy and added in 10% coconut to make the soap a bit more cleansing. I have fine, damaged curly hair and it works well for me.


----------



## MountNView

Genny, I know what I'm going to do tomorrow. :idea:  Do you have a suggested replacement for the soybean oil.  I don't have that but if it's a must I will get some.  
It is so nice of you to share this with us.  I've never made a shampoo bar before so I'm so excited to try this.  Thank you!


----------



## MountNView

Genny said:


> I've never been a fan of CP shampoo bars because immediately they'd leave my hair all dried out & straw-like.  So I only used Syndet bars and never looked back.
> But a post Lindy made here http://www.soapmakingforum.com/f19/how-basic-shampoo-bar-recipe-30757/  helped me see the error of my ways.
> 
> So, I just want to thank Lindy for giving me that "duh" moment so I could create a shampoo bar that I've only used once, but I love it already.  I imagine that after some cure time, it's going to feel so much more lovely.
> I used it this morning and there was absolutely no "stripping" feel to it & it felt so conditioning that I used it on the rest of my body as well   My brush went right through my hair and now it feels so silky & smooth.
> 
> I'm feeling so good about it, I'm going to share the recipe I created:
> Water as percent of oil weight: 35%
> Superfat: 6%
> 
> Avocado Oil: 30%
> Castor Oil: 10%
> Olive Oil: 40%
> Shea Butter: 10%
> Soybean Oil: 10%
> 
> I infused chamomile in all my oils, not in the shea though.  Plus I use a TBSP of sugar in my water for added bubbles.
> 
> For scent, I used Tea Tree EO, Peppermint EO & Lavender EO at a 1:1:1 ratio.
> 
> If anyone decides to try it, please let me know how you feel about it.


Genny,  I just finished making your recipe for shampoo bars.  Or should I say I almost made your recipe.  As I finished I was making my notes and I realized I forgot the tbsp of sugar.  What should I expect without this ingredient?  Just less bubbles?  I only made 1 lb which made 6 bars in a mold I have so not a big deal.   

I thank you for sharing this recipe with us.  We learn so much with the sharing of information that is available here from people like you.


----------



## EmBlakey

Thanks so much for this! It is amazing and I havent had to wash my hair for a week I guess I should today on principle even though it still feels great btw I just used canola and it was perfect!


----------



## SozoArtisanSoaps

I am looking to buy a bar of shampoo that is Genny's recipe. I am making my own (a bit different), but want to try this shampoo bar right away and have to wait for mine to cure. 

Does anyone who has made the original recipe have any cured they are will to sell? I messaged her to see if she had any to sell, but have not gotten a reply. Thanks!


----------



## MountNView

I made her bars with the exception of adding the sugar.  But frankly I don't think it needed it.  There is great lather.  I've only used it once so far at 3 weeks just to try it.


----------



## SozoArtisanSoaps

Someone is sending me one.  I have made my own recipe up based off this one. Looking forward to the cure!


----------



## MountNView

*Thank you*

I just wanted to post that I made Genny's recipe.  It is the first time I've ever used or made a shampoo bar and I am loving it.  I have only used it twice so far and I can already tell that my hair likes it.  My over 60 hair was quite coarse and this is making it much softer and shinny.  Thank you very much for sharing your recipe.


----------



## SoapingSara

Hi, I have spent most of my night reading this whole thread. I see many times the superfat amount is either 3% or 6% . Now, I might need some extra guidance on this, but I could of sworn that I read (like last year) That just about any soap bar could become a shampoo bar just by cutting down the Coconut Oil to under 10% and also by making the superfat between 8 to 10%. That anything less than 8% is not a good idea for a superfat when used in making a shampoo bar. I have nothing to go on as I can not seem to find where I read that information. But, it is now stuck in my head. I want badly to make a shampoo bar, using Ginnys Recipe that so many have bragged about, but I am just scared to use 6%. I feel I need some real help on this. Also, I will be changing it just a bit and adding at least 5% Coconut Oil to the Soap Batch as I have super oily scalp...but DRY DRY Hair itself. Weird, huh?
Anyway, I need the cleansing for my scalp but the moisturizing for the hair. Oh, I think I read that if I used 8% for a superfat, then I would never need to do an ACV Rinse...ya, I think that was part of it. So, a bit of knowledge from the ones who have been their, tried this or that, and have mastered shampoo bars. I just do not have tons of money to waist making lots of batches of shampoo bars just to find out they do not work. Thats why I am trusting this Ginnys Recipe as so many say it works great. Thanks


----------



## Obsidian

I also have dry hair and use 3% SF, having excess oil in your soap won't help dry hair, it will just make it gunky feeling. I've made a few different versions of genny shampoo, my favorite replaces the soy oil with 5% coconut and 5% neem.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman

Aye, there is a difference between a weak acidic rinse to help the hair rather than a lot of oils that would sit in the hair and go all manky.


----------



## jules92207

Agree. Lower superfat really helped with the gunk. That and a slight addition of coconut.


----------



## shugohmk

Did your soap ed up being hard? I placed it on the soap calculator and replaced the soybean oil with bro. Cleansing was 0 and the hardness was 17. What did you use to harden the soap?


----------



## Obsidian

you want low cleansing with a shampoo bar and 17 is plenty hard enough. If your bar was too hard, it would take a lot of scrubbing on your hair to build lather and you wouldn't want that.
I did replace the 10% soy with coconut to make the bar a bit more cleansing.


----------



## jules92207

With Genny's recipe, replace 5% olive oil with coconut and drop my SF to 3% and my hardness is 23. Its plenty hard on my opinion.


----------



## SozoArtisanSoaps

I have to say that I have never used a shampoo bar before the one Jules described above. I will NEVER go back to store shampoo! I formulated a recipe that took out the soybean oil and added coconut and palm both at 5%. I also used 100% acv for the water. I am hoping it is just as good as the one Jules described. I would make that one, but I am trying to get away from soy. 

My hair feels amazing! I am so glad I didn't have to go through a ton of shampoo bars that were harsh or waxy. I may have given up. But, this one cleans and when my hair is dried, it is so soft! This is saying a lot because I have ¨horse¨ hair. Very coarse and wiry at times...and thick. I use an acv rinse afterwards with it.

So my new routine now is to use my hair mask I make (I only use this once a week), shampoo bar, acv rinse, and then a hair serum I made. I then let my hair dry on its own and then straighten. It straightens so nice now! I then run a few drops of my hair serum through and wow! I am SO happy with this regimen! Thanks to the OP who started me on this journey of a shampoo bar and then inspiring me to make my own hair products.

Forgive the webcame photo hahaha, but wanted you to see the hair.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman

Okay, so now I need to make a shampoo bar as well as every other soapy idea swilling around in my brain. It's getting rather sudsy in there........


----------



## jules92207

SozoArtisanSoaps said:


> I have to say that I have never used a shampoo bar before the one Jules described above. I will NEVER go back to store shampoo! I formulated a recipe that took out the soybean oil and added coconut and palm both at 5%. I also used 100% acv for the water. I am hoping it is just as good as the one Jules described. I would make that one, but I am trying to get away from soy.
> 
> My hair feels amazing! I am so glad I didn't have to go through a ton of shampoo bars that were harsh or waxy. I may have given up. But, this one cleans and when my hair is dried, it is so soft! This is saying a lot because I have ¨horse¨ hair. Very coarse and wiry at times...and thick. I use an acv rinse afterwards with it.
> 
> So my new routine now is to use my hair mask I make (I only use this once a week), shampoo bar, acv rinse, and then a hair serum I made. I then let my hair dry on its own and then straighten. It straightens so nice now! I then run a few drops of my hair serum through and wow! I am SO happy with this regimen! Thanks to the OP who started me on this journey of a shampoo bar and then inspiring me to make my own hair products.
> 
> Forgive the webcame photo hahaha, but wanted you to see the hair.



I'm so glad that one worked out for you! Your hair looks awesome, and with Genny's recipe I did have about a week of adjustment so I am glad to hear the change eliminated that. 

I was thinking my next recipe I will switch the soybean with some sunflower or avocado. I think that would be a nice change.


----------



## SozoArtisanSoaps

I forgot to mention that I also infused nettle and horsetail in the olive oil for my shampoo bar.


----------



## SoapingSara

SozoArtisanSoaps said:


> I have to say that I have never used a shampoo bar before the one Jules described above. I will NEVER go back to store shampoo! I formulated a recipe that took out the soybean oil and added coconut and palm both at 5%. I also used 100% acv for the water. I am hoping it is just as good as the one Jules described. I would make that one, but I am trying to get away from soy.
> 
> END QUOTE FROM ABOVE
> 
> 
> Hi Sozoartisansoaps, I have a question. So, you use ALL Apple Cidar Vinegar in place of the water in making the soap...but then, you still use a ACV Rinse after you wash your hair in the soap? Can you please tell me why you double do this? I mean, I am trying to make things easy and simple, and I have thought of replacing the water in my recipe with ACV as well, so that I would NOT, and I repeat that, so I would NOT have to do that extra step of rinsing with the ACV Later on, after washing my hair with my soap bar. So, now I am left confused, I hate feeling confused because when I get in this place, I will tend to do absolutely nothing. Shucks, that's cause I freeze up and then I do not know what to do. So, can you please help me to UN FREEZE...ha ha...I want to move forward in making my shampoo bar, but if I use the ACV In the soap making process, in place of the water, then I would expect that is all I would have to do. Or, do you recommend that I would still need to add the ACV in a rinse on my hair after shampooing. If you just come back and say that you just do it cause of your own reasons, and that I do not have to do that, I will still feel confused. I just about need to understand WHY you use the ACV as a rinse, since you did place it already in your soap bar. Trust me, I am a gall that moves forward very, very slowly. And I am trying here to not be that way. I just was so confused by your doubling up of your use on the ACV that it did something to my head. So from the bottom of my heart, Please help me understand why you did that. ps, you look fantastic and SO SO BEAUTIFUL!!!!


----------



## Obsidian

Replacing the water with acv only increases the superfat, it doesn't lower the PH of the soap or replace the need to rinse with acv after washing.
Personally, I wouldn't use acv when making the soap, the last thing you want in a shampoo bar is extra superfat, it can build up in your hair and make it gunky feeling.
The extra step of rinsing with acv isn't something to be afraid of, it only take a few extra seconds and the scent fades as your hair dries. If you really don't like the smell of vinegar, you can buy citric acid powder and make a rinse with that instead.


----------



## kchaystack

Obsidian said:


> Replacing the water with acv only increases the superfat, it doesn't lower the PH of the soap or replace the need to rinse with acv after washing.
> Personally, I wouldn't use acv when making the soap, the last thing you want in a shampoo bar is extra superfat, it can build up in your hair and make it gunky feeling.
> The extra step of rinsing with acv isn't something to be afraid of, it only take a few extra seconds and the scent fades as your hair dries. If you really don't like the smell of vinegar, you can buy citric acid powder and make a rinse with that instead.



Although if you have hard water a little ACV can help with that.  But you need to add extra lye so you don't increase your SF.


----------



## Obsidian

Most people who add acv to the soap don't adjust the lye though, they do it because they are wrongly under the impression it will lower the PH. Citric acid is better to add for hard water, also needs lye adjustment.


----------



## DeeAnna

Sozo isn't "doubling up" on the vinegar, even though it might seem like it. You need to do an acid rinse after shampooing with this type of soap, because there's no vinegar left in the soap. Instead, there's a chemical reaction going on between the vinegar and the lye:

Vinegar (acetic acid) + NaOH => Sodium acetate


----------



## ngian

Ok after one day reading all the posts here, I have made an evernote note with the specific shampoo recipe, along with what many did alter so as to have specific effect.

The next big project for me will be this shampoo bar for my wife and daughter.
_
As a remark I'm thinking that under our names we must somehow write down how hard the water is where we live or we test the soaps, so as to have a more liable feedback upon our recipe testing, if someone forgets to post it along with the feedback, because in most posts on this thread it wasn't mentioned.
_


----------



## Nikko

Well I've read every page of this thread and thanks to all those that contributed to it. Read it all over as my wife had used a few commercially/or small artisan made shampoo bars but never gotten good results from them.  Even the 'artisan' made ones were, with the gift of my relatively new soaping knowledge - relatively poorly made having the majority of their ingredients made up of PO+CO.

Cut a long story short made a small (1lb) batch last night which was done in hopes of adjusting to my wife's irritable scalp and also oily hair plus working with the ingredients I had on hand or could access easily here in regional Australia.

Ended up going with:
OO 40%, AvO 20%, Castor 10%, CO (Copha which has advantage of lecithin, which some think helps hair shine) 5%, RBO 19%, PO 5%, Neem Oil 1% (so low as my wife HATES it's smell but it works very well on her scalp)
[email protected]%
1/2 the water was made into a tea of fresh parsley, rosemary, camomile + green tea, fresh Aloe Vera and Manuka Honey. Strained and added at light trace. And also 1tsp of Bentonite clay.

The other half I made the lye solution in (think I could have just added all together to simplify things!)

Scented with Rosemary + Tea Tree EO at 2:1 ratio with just a dash of Lavender.

Took a tad longer to trace (than my whopping 3 previous batches of experience! ;-) but surprisingly very firm this morning.  Will zap test and cut pending this @24hr mark.

Thanks again for the great thread.


----------



## happyshopper

Hi all

I am looking to make a shampoo bar that I can actually use (this is one of my main reasons for starting soap making). I live in a very hard water area which makes using shampoo bars difficult, it is nothing to do with the rinse, its the reaction with the hard water which makes the soap stick to the hair (its almost impossible to get out). There must be a solution to this which I am looking to find. The only shampoo bars I can use are those from Lush, which contain SLS this might be the reason they work? I will try adding citirc acid as a starting point

Anyway to my question, please can someone help with an oil suggestion to replace the avocado oil for my test soaps (i suspect I will need a few which will get thrown away I can't afford to use avocado oil in them). The cheap oils that I can get hold of here are rapeseed (canola) / sunflower / lard, which would be best as a substitute? or are there any other cheap oils that would make a good temporary replacement. I am not so interested at this stage of what is good for my hair more of an alternative that means the finished bar will act the same as if it had avocado oil in it iyswim. 

thanks


----------



## Obsidian

Sunflower or canola would both be good subs. I would personally go the sunflower. If you have really hard water, don't use lard. In my experience, it makes more soap scum then other kinds of fats. If you need to replace the shea, use palm.

Citric acid will help with the scum, as will using a lower SF, try 3%. Always use a vinegar rinse, it helps break up and rinse away hard water gunk.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman

I second the citric acid or sodium citrate. If you use citric acid, it reacts with the lye to create sodium citrate. Personally, I do this as I can get citric acid in the cash and carry. 

I'm on the app, but if you search for "citric acid DeeAnna site:soapmakingforum.com" in google there will be a few results with a really good guide for how much extra lye to add to take care of the citric acid


----------



## SozoArtisanSoaps

Sorry it took me so long to reply! I got busy with the business!

Right now I rinse with ACV because I am using a bar that is pretty close to the same recipe that I created, but I add ACV and it has CO and PO in small amounts (5%). I wanted to make the switch right away to a shampoo bar and so did this while mine is curing. 

I have no idea how mine made with 100% ACV will be yet. I test on Tues. If it is not as good as the one I am using now, then I won't do the ACV with it. I had seen others make theirs with ACV so I wanted to try it. The ACV rinse on my hair is wonderful. So I don't mind if I have to ¨double up¨  ACV actually lays down the cuticle of the hair making it softer in appearance and feel. I have looked at my hair under a miroscope before ACV rinse and after. I can attest that the cuticle is flaked out before and lays down after. 

My hair is just sooo much nicer now. I have had several compliments on it. But, I also use my own hair mask before washing and then use my hair serum on my dry straightened hair.


----------



## SA-Soaper

Hi everyone - also tried this recipe today, but had to change a bit because only had small amount of avocado oil and no soybean. Replaced with some grapeseed oil, sweet almond, canola and jojoba oils. Also did 50/40/10 with camomile and rooibos tea/aloe juice and coconut milk. Added bentonite, honey and sugar. Hp so sf with shea butter and jojoba oil. Must say it is a real "poo" bar as it turned brown even with added td. Did a test on hands and lathers up greatand do feel moisturing. Will wait to sea how it is on hair. Btw have hard water and my hair is long, very thick, curly and tend to frizz easily. Tried a shampoobar before was not impressed. Will let u guys know when its cured. Thanks to everyones input.


----------



## Nikko

RE: the ACV or CA rinse - whats the recommended dilution folks are finding best for this (my wife has long hair, a tad on the dense side, normal thickness)

Also any best/easiest methodology? I made the mistake last yr of premixing a dilution rinse and as this was cold she understandably hated using it. So I guess a dilute on demand with the hot shower water is better.  Leave in for a few mins/work through or immediate rinse out?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Obsidian

I use about 1/2 tsp per 1 cup water. I keep a small bottle of vinegar and a small plastic cup in the shower so I can mix it as needed. For my thick shoulder length hair, one cup is usually enough. Better to mix up more then needed then not enough, the hair needs to be saturated.

I usually leave it in but if I accidentally make the mix a little strong, I rinse it out. If the hair ever feels oily after using vinegar, then she has used too much and needs to try a weaker mix.


----------



## SozoArtisanSoaps

Tested out my shampoo bar with changes of subtracting out the soy and adding in instead 5% coconut oil and 5% palm oil and using ACV for the water. It is great! My hair dries soft and shiny. I only need to wash my hair twice a week!  So glad Genny posted this recipe and I was able to make a successful shampoo bar! 
I also rinsed with ACV like always (2T acv to 12 oz water). I don't mind the extra step so I am not sure how it would be without the rinse. My husband used it without the rinse and his hair was soft, too.


----------



## biarine

I will try  Genny's shampoo bar recipe but I replace the soy oil with sweet almond oil and shea butter with mango butter and I will use marjoram, Rosemary and oregano EO the same ratio as Genny's.


----------



## misera

I made a version of this a little over 3 weeks back hot processed but it is still kind of soft. pH good, no zap, seems to do well and lather well in my hands but I haven't tried shampooing with it.

Water as percent of oil weight: 34%
Superfat: 6% (saved just 2.5% of jojoba + avocado to SF at end, afraid to make it too oily. Rest of it was used in the cook.)
Avocado Oil: 30%
Castor Oil: 9.7%
Olive Oil: 38.79%
Shea Butter: 9.7%
Hemp Oil: 5.45%
Coconut Oil: 4.85%
Jojoba Oil: 1.52%
Beer instead of water
1 oz tea tree oil
.5 oz peppermint oil
Cooked for 2+ hours on low in crockpot after full trace. It wasn't folding in on itself possibly from the beer so I had to stir it a couple times. It smelled horrid, but now it's good. Are shampoo bars supposed to be soft? My percentages are weird b/c I slightly overpoured/underpoured in some and rechecked the percentages after everything was over. These are the actual percentage numbers.


----------



## SozoArtisanSoaps

I was finally brave enough to use my tweaked shampoo bar of Genny's without an ACV rinse afterwards since it is made with ACV. It worked! I did not need to rinse. After my hair dried, it was very soft and manageable and more of my waves were more defined.


----------



## Dahila

You said PH good, what does it mean>  Can you give us the PH reading?  Soap will be somewhere from 9.5 to 11 .  What is good PH)?


----------



## misera

Dahila said:


> You said PH good, what does it mean>  Can you give us the PH reading?  Soap will be somewhere from 9.5 to 11 .  What is good PH)?




If you're asking about mine, I got a 9 on it.


----------



## misera

misera said:


> I made a version of this a little over 3 weeks back hot processed but it is still kind of soft. pH good, no zap, seems to do well and lather well in my hands but I haven't tried shampooing with it.
> 
> Water as percent of oil weight: 34%
> Superfat: 6% (saved just 2.5% of jojoba + avocado to SF at end, afraid to make it too oily. Rest of it was used in the cook.)
> Avocado Oil: 30%
> Castor Oil: 9.7%
> Olive Oil: 38.79%
> Shea Butter: 9.7%
> Hemp Oil: 5.45%
> Coconut Oil: 4.85%
> Jojoba Oil: 1.52%
> Beer instead of water
> 1 oz tea tree oil
> .5 oz peppermint oil
> Cooked for 2+ hours on low in crockpot after full trace. It wasn't folding in on itself possibly from the beer so I had to stir it a couple times. It smelled horrid, but now it's good. Are shampoo bars supposed to be soft? My percentages are weird b/c I slightly overpoured/underpoured in some and rechecked the percentages after everything was over. These are the actual percentage numbers.



So I ended up rebatching it because it was still quite soft but even the rebatch was soft though not as bad. I've been using the bar for the past week and a half hoping that it was just my hair needing to get used to it but there's forever a build up feeling. I have not used conditioner or ACV rinse after as I wanted to see how my hair would do just with the shampoo bar. I have long thick asian hair so it takes a lot of time to foam up my hands, rub it in in sections, foam up, rub more in, etc until I finally have all my hair foamed up. Then it rinses out super fast but leaves my hair super squeaky with inability to really run my fingers through them. I have to towel it dry a bit then blow dry before I can get a comb through. Just feels like I have a lot of product or wax or something in it  Wonder whats causing the build up in my hair??


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman

There is often a transition between syn-poos and soap-poos. For some people it can take weeks. 

That said, if you're not happy with the soap on its own, try to soap and acv rinse?


----------



## Saponista

As EG suggested try an acid rinse. I use citric acid as I can't stand the smell of vinegar. The rinse really detangles. If I tried to brush my hair before the rinse then I'd go bald ripping it all out due to the tangles.


----------



## biarine

This is my latest shampoo bar. My hair is in between of dry and oily as well as very temperamental. I can't use olive oil more than 20% or my hair will oily or very flat no volume at all. My husband called my hair as flat as as pancake since I used my shampoo bar, so I decided to change my 35% of olive oil to 20% and coconut oil to 35%. I know all of you will ask why my coconut oil percentage is very high. But believe me it makes my hair very silky, soft and a lot of volume. If anyone had the same hair as me here is the recipe, this a hot process. 

35% Virgin coconut oil
20% unrefined Virgin avocado oil
20% olive oil pomace
15% sweet almond 
10% castor 
With 2% SF 
Plus 3% cocoa butter & 3% Shea butter ( I put the cocoa and shea butter at the end of my cooking )
1 oz lavender
.5 rosemary


----------



## misera

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> There is often a transition between syn-poos and soap-poos. For some people it can take weeks.
> 
> That said, if you're not happy with the soap on its own, try to soap and acv rinse?





Saponista said:


> As EG suggested try an acid rinse. I use citric acid as I can't stand the smell of vinegar. The rinse really detangles. If I tried to brush my hair before the rinse then I'd go bald ripping it all out due to the tangles.



I was trying to keep with it as long as possible (went a little over 2 weeks) and finally used ACV though I think too strong of a concentration. It made it non squeeky and I could finally run my hands through my hair again but it made it a little greasy feeling. Today I went back to regular liquid shampoo to see if I could "reset" but I think some of the stuff thats been building up for a while from the shampoo bar is still in my hair. I'm going to try again next week after getting it out of my hair completely and using a more diluted rinse after every wash this time. I also unfortunately got some of the ACV in my eyes >_> I thought I rinsed my face off enough with a splash but noooo that stuff stung just as much as when I got the dang shampoo bar in my eyes (tea tree+peppermint).


----------



## biarine

The Efficacious Gentleman said:


> There is often a transition between syn-poos and soap-poos. For some people it can take weeks.
> 
> That said, if you're not happy with the soap on its own, try to soap and acv rinse?




I gave one bar of my shampoo to my friend last Sunday and she said that it made her hair very smooth and silky without any transition at all. I really surprised because when I start last year it take 4 washes before became ok but that's different recipe.


----------



## kumudini

Here is the recipe of my shampoo bar that I made may be three months ago with lot of herbs,45% OO, 40% SAO, 10% CO and 5 castor and added 5% herbal infused EVCO after the cook. I also put in CA with additional lye,along with sugar. Citric acid helps with the build up. It works well for me, I also have thick Asian hair that I oil up before wash. The bar cleans it out in two times, lathers easily. I used vinegar rinse for few weeks but now I don't need to do it anymore. The one extra step I do is, scrunch exactly 5 drops of olive oil into my damp hair, mainly the ends and my hair is healthier and shinier these days. I also loose less hairs.
I'm so grateful that this thread exists. It's from here that I got my inspiration to try something like that, I have forever been looking to eliminate chemicals in my hair. And this thread made it possible, my hair thanks Lindy and Genny.


----------



## misera

Vkumudini said:


> Here is the recipe of my shampoo bar that I made may be three months ago with lot of herbs,45% OO, 40% SAO, 10% CO and 5 castor and added 5% herbal infused EVCO after the cook. I also put in CA with additional lye,along with sugar. Citric acid helps with the build up. It works well for me, I also have thick Asian hair that I oil up before wash. The bar cleans it out in two times, lathers easily. I used vinegar rinse for few weeks but now I don't need to do it anymore. The one extra step I do is, scrunch exactly 5 drops of olive oil into my damp hair, mainly the ends and my hair is healthier and shinier these days. I also loose less hairs.
> I'm so grateful that this thread exists. It's from here that I got my inspiration to try something like that, I have forever been looking to eliminate chemicals in my hair. And this thread made it possible, my hair thanks Lindy and Genny.



Maybe I need to drop the butters from mine too then. And get citric acid..


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## alwaysme07

:eh:I really need to make mine own shampoo bar, not sure what to use cp or hp though.


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## soapysarah

I started making a shampoo bar cp soap a few years' ago, mainly for my husband who has a flaky scalp and was using very strong commercial shampoos.  His hair is absolutely brilliant after using it - it lathers up like a huge helmet!  I started to use it and found that I could leave off the conditioner; I loved the ease of having just one bar of soap when we travelled.

A while ago I coloured my hair using a new brand of colorant and found that I could no longer use the shampoo bar - it made my hair really greasy.  (I use green tea and soap nuts in the bar.)  I left it a while and tried again; same result.

I did a bit of research on this, which was hard for me to find...it seems that cp shampoo bars can have this effect, which varies for the length of time needed before hair is 'normal' again.  From what I read the hair shaft needs to get rid of its previous chemical treatments before responding properly to the soap.  For some it takes a week and for others a month.  Like most people I cannot have 'yukky' hair for a month so have yet to get back to a state where I can use my soap again.

A friend has been testing my dog soap and this happened to her with a dog, in that the first few she washed were absolutely fine and she was really pleased with the soap.  Then she had a dog to wash and the hair was really greasy afterwards and she had to use a proprietary shampoo to get rid of the grease.  This is obviously not good from a commercial point of view.  I have not read of this on websites which advertise dog (or human) shampoo bars.  Has anyone else come across this?


----------



## cmzaha

soapysarah said:


> I started making a shampoo bar cp soap a few years' ago, mainly for my husband who has a flaky scalp and was using very strong commercial shampoos.  His hair is absolutely brilliant after using it - it lathers up like a huge helmet!  I started to use it and found that I could leave off the conditioner; I loved the ease of having just one bar of soap when we travelled.
> 
> A while ago I coloured my hair using a new brand of colorant and found that I could no longer use the shampoo bar - it made my hair really greasy.  (I use green tea and soap nuts in the bar.)  I left it a while and tried again; same result.
> 
> I did a bit of research on this, which was hard for me to find...it seems that cp shampoo bars can have this effect, which varies for the length of time needed before hair is 'normal' again.  From what I read the hair shaft needs to get rid of its previous chemical treatments before responding properly to the soap.  For some it takes a week and for others a month.  Like most people I cannot have 'yukky' hair for a month so have yet to get back to a state where I can use my soap again.
> 
> A friend has been testing my dog soap and this happened to her with a dog, in that the first few she washed were absolutely fine and she was really pleased with the soap.  Then she had a dog to wash and the hair was really greasy afterwards and she had to use a proprietary shampoo to get rid of the grease.  This is obviously not good from a commercial point of view.  I have not read of this on websites which advertise dog (or human) shampoo bars.  Has anyone else come across this?



No matter what you do to good ol' lye soap the ph is still to high for hair. You take the chance of eventually damaging your hair enough that it will need to be cut. Soap because of the high ph will cause the hair cuticle to raise up thus causing abrasion to the hair strand under the cuticle. The cuticle protects our hair stands and using a vinegar rinse will help but with thick especially long and/or curly hair you cannot even guarantee the vinegar will get on every stand completely. Superfatting soap only leaves a possible layer of oil and dirt buildup over time. This is a simpilified example of why you should stick to mild surfactant shampoo bars (syndet) which are not hard to make. Susan at Swift Crafty Monkey has some good formulas for syndet shampoo bars on her blog


----------



## spenny92

I've been using my variation of Genny's shampoo bar for a little while now, and I just wanted to say how much I love it. I used macadamia nut oil instead of soybean. It leaves my normally very limp and dry hair beautifully soft and bouncy, and feels clean. I also really like using it as a facial bar as it's so gentle on my sensitive skin. I've used other shampoo bars in the past, and they always left my hair feeling parched and impossible to manage - I could not get a brush through my hair no matter how hard I tried, and I've always had to use copious amounts of conditioner no matter what shampoo I use, just so I don't end up with chunks of tangled hair that's impossible to comb through. With this shampoo bar, I can actually run my fingers through my hair to untangle and only need to use a little conditioner on my ends. Even my boyfriend has commented that my hair is looking much healthier and nicer - so that's quite impressive!

Thank you, Genny!


----------



## soapysarah

I understand your comment Carolyn Z, but how is that there are so many hair shampoo bars for sale?  Also, my hair was wonderful for about a year, until I coloured it.  My husband's hair is absolutely fine using my shampoo soap and he has been using it for over a year.  Anecdote from other soap shampoo users is positive on the internet fora.


----------



## TeaLeavesandTweed

soapysarah said:


> I understand your comment Carolyn Z, but how is that there are so many hair shampoo bars for sale?  Also, my hair was wonderful for about a year, until I coloured it.  My husband's hair is absolutely fine using my shampoo soap and he has been using it for over a year.  Anecdote from other soap shampoo users is positive on the internet fora.



As an on-and-off user of shampoo bars (and, yes, I used them exclusively for months at a time, so I was over "detox"), and a member of a rather large hair care forum, I'm going to throw my two cents in. People tend to rave about the things that work for them. Those who go out of their way to make negative comments about things they've tried often are the type who complain about everything, and often get dismissed as cranks or trolls. Most of us heed the "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" school of thought. So that's probably why the internet has more good reviews of all kinds of hair care than bad.

As for why there are good reviews at all if soap is supposed to be this nasty, damaging thing? Well, different people have different hair. Some people have very delicate hair, either naturally or due to chemical processing, and can't use anything that ruffles the hair's cuticle without ending up frizzy. Others (myself included) have very sturdy hair. When I was in high school, I once dyed my hair twice in the same day with traditional, ammonia/peroxide hair dye and suffered no ill cosmetic effects. My hair was just as glossy and healthy looking. So even though I found shampoo bars didn't clean my hair adequately, I never felt like they made my hair appear more damaged. But that doesn't mean they weren't doing something below a level I could perceive.

I guess this is a long-winded way of saying that if shampoo bars work for you, great! But true soap is high-pH and is doing something to hair on a microscopic level that will damage it, even if you don't perceive it on the timescale of your hair's life cycle. So it is important to bring that point up to those who are either having trouble with soap-based shampoo, or those with delicate hair who are considering it. Particularly since most of the reasonable-sounding reviews one sees online are positive.


----------



## Obsidian

I used shampoo bars for well over a year and told everyone how wonderful they were. I truly loved them and how they made my hair/scalp feel then suddenly, my hair started breaking, got crispy and basically turned into a hot mess. It was so severely damaged, I had to cut it off into a pixie a couple months ago.

I wish I could still use shampoo bars but for me, it just isn't going to happen unless I keep my hair short which I don't want to do. I went to a sulfate free shampoo and really like it.


----------



## janzo

I love the shampoo bars but they really fade my hair colour quickly.  Seriously considering giving them up for this reason.


----------



## jules92207

I recently had my hair colored so had to switch from my shampoo bar to a color safe over the counter shampoo/conditioner instead. Before that I had received lots of compliments from hair dressers at the health of my hair so for me they work but I want to keep my pretty colors so I can't use them when I dye.

I'm pretty sure just about everything you do will cause some damage so I agree with the above to just do what works for you.


----------



## biarine

I used shampoo bar for over 1 year now and I coloured  my hair too. But I never any problem the colour is ok and my straight hair become more wavy and look thicker than I used a shampoo. I damaged my hair 2 years with bleach then j cut it short then I use my shampoo bar and my oil serum helps a lot to repair the damage.


----------



## Skatergirl46

I had all kinds of trouble using shampoo bars in my hair. I was trying to make something gentle and not very cleansing because my hair is fine. It left my hair feeling like oily straw. I realized that I wasn't getting enough of the oils out of my hair, and then just putting more on because of the SF.
This month I tried a few of my different soaps on my hair. The one with a cleansing value of 10 and a SF of 5% has been the best. My hair doesn't feel funky at all and isn't weighed down by the oils left behind. It remains to be seen how long this will continue to work for me. I didn't use any conditioner or rinse afterwards. My hair is soft and shiny. I do have color in it that I re-do monthly. So far there is no change to the color.


----------



## cmzaha

soapysarah said:


> I understand your comment Carolyn Z, but how is that there are so many hair shampoo bars for sale?  Also, my hair was wonderful for about a year, until I coloured it.  My husband's hair is absolutely fine using my shampoo soap and he has been using it for over a year.  Anecdote from other soap shampoo users is positive on the internet fora.


Because of a lot of hype about anything made in a lab is bad. Many soapmakers, especially new soapmakers, think handmade soap for perfect for everyone and everything. Which is very far from the truth


----------



## soapysarah

These comments are very useful, thank you.  I had not picked up any negatives on other posts on the internet vis a vis shampoo bars.  For me, the cp soap shampoo is out of the frame for the moment; a pity, but hey ho.  I'll still make it for my husband and give another go from time to time.


----------



## biarine

I used a some hair colour before  but I don't have any problem yesterday  I decided to use a Schwarzkopf live color xxl. When I washed  this my hair today it turn really bad like straw and feel like plastic as well as oily.


----------



## shunt2011

My husband uses any and all of my soaps to wash his hair.  I however had awful luck with a bar made for this purpose..  I color my hair and it made my hair color fade and made my hair feel like straw.   It certainly works for some and that's great.  You just need to try and see what happens.


----------



## Skatergirl46

I had trouble finding a formula that worked for me. I have very fine but thick hair, and I was going about it the wrong way. I thought that I needed a low cleansing formula to be gentle to my hair. As it turned out I needed a higher cleansing value (at least 8 ), and SF not more than 8%(lighter and drier oils). I was not getting enough of the oil out of my hair initially so the SF oils were making it greasy. 
My husband loves my salt bars for his body and hair. There's no way those would work for me at 20% SF. I just figured it out through trial and error with the bars that I have that are cured. Good luck, I hope you find your formula.


----------



## babydoll3156

Can we use this recipe for liquid soap shampoo?


----------



## Susie

Nope, this makes bar soap.  You can't make liquid soap from bar soap.  What you will get is a snotty consistency mess that does not clean well.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman

babydoll3156 said:


> Can we use this recipe for liquid soap shampoo?




You'd have to rerun it as a liquid soap in a calc  and see how it comes it


----------



## klbowden

*Yogurt in a shampoo bar?*

Hi all. Not sure if it has already been answered but I DID do a search and did not find my answer  (and have read as far as pg 40 to no avail).
So here it is...Has anyone tried adding yogurt to a shampoo bar? I have curly hair and read good things about yogurt and curls. Was thinking of adding citric acid (we have VERY hard water), a bit of honey, clay, and maybe yogurt with beer subbed for water. 
Too much "stuff" going on here? 
Thoughts? 
This will be my first shampoo bar! 
Thanks in advance for any insights for a newbie


----------



## shunt2011

klbowden said:


> Hi all. Not sure if it has already been answered but I DID do a search and did not find my answer (and have read as far as pg 40 to no avail).
> So here it is...Has anyone tried adding yogurt to a shampoo bar? I have curly hair and read good things about yogurt and curls. Was thinking of adding citric acid (we have VERY hard water), a bit of honey, clay, and maybe yogurt with beer subbed for water.
> Too much "stuff" going on here?
> Thoughts?
> This will be my first shampoo bar!
> Thanks in advance for any insights for a newbie


 
I have used Coconut Milk and beer had no problems.  I wouldn't add clay to though.  Also, if you decide to use yogurt it too is in place of your water.


----------



## lreynolds

I also have curly hair.  Would love to see comments from experienced soapers!


----------



## Noblesquire

Hi all! I am a brand new soap maker. I bought the book Making Soap from Scratch by Gregory Lee White and have made soap from that book. His Shampoo bar has 13 OZ of Coconut oil in it and I notice some people saying that Coconut oil can strip hair. So I ran into this post and it seems everyone is very excited about it and want very much to succeed at making this soap!

I have read several pages of this thread and being a bit of a noobie, I feel like I am still confused about a few things.  

I found the soap calculator and punched in the values. I use a 3lb crafters choice soap loaf mold.

You say you infuse chamomile into all your oils (Except the Shea) Is this Chamomile essential oil? How much do you use and what is your process for infusing?

You also use Tea Tree / Peppermint / Lavender EO... what rate are you using? I was assuming 1oz per pound? 

Also I see Superfat 6%. As I understand it, superfatting your soaps means you add one of the oils at trace. Is this the case here? If so which oil? If I am incorrect, could you clear this one up for me?

Also you add 1 TBS sugar to your water... is this added directly with the lye or is this separate? I dont know if the lye reacts with the sugar or what it does so I am curious about that. I made a soap with Peppermint tea once because I didn't have the oil so I just made a batch of strong peppermint tea then added the lye to that and it seemed to me that it caused the peppermint to lose a lot of its scent... in fact in kind of stunk a bit afterwards...:sad:

Column 5: Soap qualities and fatty acids (I don't know what to do with this column, but I am thinking it autofills as I add oils)

I have been buying my oils at WalMart... Can anyone recommend a better supplier? (Cheap but still pure ingredients)

I am super interested in this recipe because I have a beard and I want to use it on my hair and my beard. Also my wife has very sensitive skin and she uses commercial shampoo so I am hoping this helps with her itching.

Thanks so much for your time and help! I don't mean to be so needy lol, I just really am passionate about finding a good shampoo bar and I feel very lucky to have stumbled upon this one after reading so many posts by people who are very dissatisfied by the results they have gotten from other bars!


----------



## shunt2011

Noblesquire said:


> Hi all! I am a brand new soap maker. I bought the book Making Soap from Scratch by Gregory Lee White and have made soap from that book. His Shampoo bar has 13 OZ of Coconut oil in it and I notice some people saying that Coconut oil can strip hair. So I ran into this post and it seems everyone is very excited about it and want very much to succeed at making this soap!
> 
> I have read several pages of this thread and being a bit of a noobie, I feel like I am still confused about a few things.
> 
> I found the soap calculator and punched in the values. I use a 3lb crafters choice soap loaf mold.
> 
> You say you infuse chamomile into all your oils (Except the Shea) Is this Chamomile essential oil? How much do you use and what is your process for infusing?
> 
> I infuse chamomile flowers into my oils (I don't make shampoo bars as my hair hates them). I generally put the flowers in a jar and then fill with olive oil.
> You also use Tea Tree / Peppermint / Lavender EO... what rate are you using? I was assuming 1oz per pound?
> 
> Also I see Superfat 6%. As I understand it, superfatting your soaps means you add one of the oils at trace. Is this the case here? If so which oil? If I am incorrect, could you clear this one up for me?
> 
> No, add all your oils to one pot. When doing CP it doesn't matter as the lye will take whatever oils it wants. Even if added at trace as the lye is still active. If you want to add a special oil and not have it taken by lye you would need to do HP.
> 
> Also you add 1 TBS sugar to your water... is this added directly with the lye or is this separate? I dont know if the lye reacts with the sugar or what it does so I am curious about that. I made a soap with Peppermint tea once because I didn't have the oil so I just made a batch of strong peppermint tea then added the lye to that and it seemed to me that it caused the peppermint to lose a lot of its scent... in fact in kind of stunk a bit afterwards...:sad:
> 
> I mix my sugar in my water/liquid portion and dissolve before adding the lye.
> 
> Botanicals and other items added for sent other than EO/FO's will not survive saponification. And can turn brown.
> 
> Column 5: Soap qualities and fatty acids (I don't know what to do with this column, but I am thinking it autofills as I add oils)
> 
> Those do fill in as you build your recipe in soap calc. Never use a recipe printed without running through a calc.
> 
> I have been buying my oils at WalMart... Can anyone recommend a better supplier? (Cheap but still pure ingredients)
> 
> Many folks purchase their oils from the grocery store. There are many suppliers out there, depends on where you live as shipping can play a big part.
> 
> Soaper's Choice is one of my favorites for oils/butters. Other companies are Wholesale Supplies Plus, Nature's Garden, Bramble Berry etc....
> 
> I am super interested in this recipe because I have a beard and I want to use it on my hair and my beard. Also my wife has very sensitive skin and she uses commercial shampoo so I am hoping this helps with her itching.
> 
> Thanks so much for your time and help! I don't mean to be so needy lol, I just really am passionate about finding a good shampoo bar and I feel very lucky to have stumbled upon this one after reading so many posts by people who are very dissatisfied by the results they have gotten from other bars!


 
Welcome to the forum.


----------



## IrishLass

Welcome Noblesquire! :wave:



Noblesquire said:


> You say you infuse chamomile into all your oils (Except the Shea) Is this Chamomile essential oil? How much do you use and what is your process for infusing?


 
Although I've never infused any of my oils (to date), it is done by adding the flowers and/or leaves of herbs to a portion of the oil with which you'll be soaping. 



Noblesquire said:


> You also use Tea Tree / Peppermint / Lavender EO... what rate are you using? I was assuming 1oz per pound?


 
The accepted safe rate of using essential oils in soap is to use no more than .5 oz ppo (because of their medicinal effects). 



Noblesquire said:


> Also I see Superfat 6%. As I understand it, superfatting your soaps means you add one of the oils at trace. Is this the case here? If so which oil? If I am incorrect, could you clear this one up for me?


 
As Shari (Shunt) said- add all your oils to your pot up front. Since the lye is still very active at trace and can remain active for up to 24 hours or more after pouring into your mold, the practice of superfatting at trace is nothing more than a waste of time and wishful thinking. Dr. Kevin Dunn put the (quite pervasive) superfatting theory to the test in his lab a few years ago, and from his results, it turns out that the theory has no merit....at least in CP. You may have more luck with HP by adding the superfatting oil after the cook when no zap is present, but many debate the reliability of that theory, too, since the innards of soap are not exactly static. 



Noblesquire said:


> Also you add 1 TBS sugar to your water... is this added directly with the lye or is this separate?


 
Speaking only for myself, I actually add 2 tbsp. sugar ppo to mine. Make sure to dissolve it in your water before adding the lye and not the other way around.




Noblesquire said:


> I dont know if the lye reacts with the sugar or what it does so I am curious about that.


 
Sugar helps to boost lather, but don't use too much or you'll end up with a soft/dent-able soap. Two tbsp. ppo is the highest I go because of that.



Noblesquire said:


> I made a soap with Peppermint tea once because I didn't have the oil so I just made a batch of strong peppermint tea then added the lye to that and it seemed to me that it caused the peppermint to lose a lot of its scent... in fact in kind of stunk a bit afterwards...:sad:


 
As you found out, teas (and/or herbs) won't add lasting scent to soap...and may put up an awful stink at first...but the stink cures out. You need to use quality EOs or FOs if you want a scent to last. 



Noblesquire said:


> Column 5: Soap qualities and fatty acids (I don't know what to do with this column, but I am thinking it autofills as I add oils)


 
If you are using SoapCalc, yes, it autofills. This column can be quite helpful by giving you a plumb line of sorts to work off of when it comes to tweaking your formula after having tested out your finished soap. 



Noblesquire said:


> I have been buying my oils at WalMart... Can anyone recommend a better supplier? (Cheap but still pure ingredients)


 
Lot's of us buy our oils at the supermarket (which is perfectly fine), but if you are making lots of soap, buying online in bulk is the better way to go. I buy my olive oil at my local Costco and my lard and tallow at the grocery store (because they are cheaper for me local), but I buy all my other oils and butters online (because those end up being cheaper for me in the long run). Columbus Foods out of Ohio is my go-to online source for the majority of my bulk oils/butters, but I keep my eye out for good deals offered at another vendors, too. 



Noblesquire said:


> I am super interested in this recipe because I have a beard and I want to use it on my hair and my beard. Also my wife has very sensitive skin and she uses commercial shampoo so I am hoping this helps with her itching.


 
Speaking only for myself, I have never used this recipe as a shampoo (because my hair doesn't do well being washed with lye-based soaps), but I can attest that it definitely makes for a _very lovely_ body soap. 



Noblesquire said:


> Thanks so much for your time and help! I don't mean to be so needy lol, I just really am passionate about finding a good shampoo bar and I feel very lucky to have stumbled upon this one after reading so many posts by people who are very dissatisfied by the results they have gotten from other bars!


 
No worries- we are all needy at one time or another. 


IrishLass


----------



## AndroiDad75

Can this recipe be used with the HP method? If so,  should anything be done differently?


----------



## IrishLass

AndroiDad75 said:


> Can this recipe be used with the HP method? If so, should anything be done differently?


 
Any recipe that you can make via CP can also be made via HP.  The only really big thing to be mindful of is your water amount, since HP needs more water due to the evaporation that takes place as the soap is cooking. When I do HP, I use what is known as a 'full water' amount, which for me translates to a 28% lye concentration (2.57 parts water to every one part lye).


IrishLass


----------



## gigisiguenza

Genny said:


> I've never been a fan of CP shampoo bars because immediately they'd leave my hair all dried out & straw-like.  So I only used Syndet bars and never looked back.
> But a post Lindy made here http://www.soapmakingforum.com/f19/how-basic-shampoo-bar-recipe-30757/  helped me see the error of my ways.
> 
> So, I just want to thank Lindy for giving me that "duh" moment so I could create a shampoo bar that I've only used once, but I love it already.  I imagine that after some cure time, it's going to feel so much more lovely.
> I used it this morning and there was absolutely no "stripping" feel to it & it felt so conditioning that I used it on the rest of my body as well   My brush went right through my hair and now it feels so silky & smooth.
> 
> I'm feeling so good about it, I'm going to share the recipe I created:
> Water as percent of oil weight: 35%
> Superfat: 6%
> 
> Avocado Oil: 30%
> Castor Oil: 10%
> Olive Oil: 40%
> Shea Butter: 10%
> Soybean Oil: 10%
> 
> I infused chamomile in all my oils, not in the shea though.  Plus I use a TBSP of sugar in my water for added bubbles.
> 
> For scent, I used Tea Tree EO, Peppermint EO & Lavender EO at a 1:1:1 ratio.
> 
> If anyone decides to try it, please let me know how you feel about it.



Could I use aloe juice for my lye solution or would that mess it all up?


----------



## IrishLass

gigisiguenza said:


> Could I use aloe juice for my lye solution or would that mess it all up?


 
I don't see why not. I used 50% aloe juice in mine and it came out quite lovely!


IrishLass


----------



## gigisiguenza

IrishLass said:


> I don't see why not. I used 50% aloe juice in mine and it came out quite lovely!
> 
> 
> IrishLass



oh yeah! I want my rich creamy bubbles dang it LOL


----------



## gigisiguenza

Another question - 

I have grapeseed oil and would like to try it in place of the soybean oil, but I've read so many conflicting things about it, that I'm unsure. Any feedback from the experienced soapers on how it holds up?


----------



## Obsidian

I wouldn't use it, grapeseed oil has a short shelf life. I've used sunflower oil or avocado in place of the soy.


----------



## gigisiguenza

Obsidian said:


> I wouldn't use it, grapeseed oil has a short shelf life. I've used sunflower oil or avocado in place of the soy.



Ok, I'll avoid it if the short shelf life is an issue. But what am I gonna use it for now? I'm stuck with it LOL. Any suggestions for using grapeseed oil besides soap?


----------



## KristaY

gigisiguenza said:


> Ok, I'll avoid it if the short shelf life is an issue. But what am I gonna use it for now? I'm stuck with it LOL. Any suggestions for using grapeseed oil besides soap?



Take it to your kitchen! Grapeseed oil is light weight, basically flavorless and odorless so is great to use in a saute. I like to use it when I'm doing a quick al dente saute to veggies that I add to various aromatic dishes. The grapeseed doesn't compete with the flavors and aromas of other spices. I like it for Asian, Mexican, Italian, etc type dishes.


----------



## gigisiguenza

KristaY said:


> Take it to your kitchen! Grapeseed oil is light weight, basically flavorless and odorless so is great to use in a saute. I like to use it when I'm doing a quick al dente saute to veggies that I add to various aromatic dishes. The grapeseed doesn't compete with the flavors and aromas of other spices. I like it for Asian, Mexican, Italian, etc type dishes.



Sounds like a plan. I've never cooked with it before, so this will be a culinary adventure  TY


----------



## HappyHomeSoapCo

I used grapeseed oil to rub on my belly when pregnant!


----------



## gigisiguenza

HappyHomeSoapCo said:


> I used grapeseed oil to rub on my belly when pregnant!



Wonder if it works for thousand year old stretch marks


----------



## HappyHomeSoapCo

gigisiguenza said:


> Wonder if it works for thousand year old stretch marks



Hahaa. Well it was recommended by Dr Oz. So believe at your own free will!


----------



## FreeBird

*This is so timely*

I am asked for a shampoo bar continually and would like to offer them.  I do make one but I formulated it specifically for my hair-type (wavy, fine, waistlength) and it works wonderfully.  When I did sell it, the feedback I got was it did not work for everyone. Because of that, I do not offer it anymore.

Here lately, though, I have been thinking I would like to try my hand at making 3-4 to cover all hair-types. So I am wondering - Is anyone taking in consideration their specific hair-type when making their shampoo bars?  What oils are best for hair-types other than mine?

TIA
Birdie


----------



## Obsidian

Did the people who said your bars didn't work for them ever use shampoo bars before? A lot of people don't know about the transition period or the need to use a vinegar rinse. If thats the case, they probably won't like any shampoo bar. Maybe print out a short pamphlet about switching to a shampoo bar to hand out with it.

Did they give you any specifics about what they didn't like? make their hair dry? Not clean it enough? You really need to know what they need changed before you can change it.

Even though I have fine, dry hair, I found genny's bar to be a bit too mild. I had to add 5% coconut and lower the Sf to 3% to stop a film forming on my hair.


----------



## FreeBird

Obsidian said:


> Did the people who said your bars didn't work for them ever use shampoo bars before? A lot of people don't know about the transition period or the need to use a vinegar rinse. If thats the case, they probably won't like any shampoo bar. Maybe print out a short pamphlet about switching to a shampoo bar to hand out with it.


The transition and rinse issue is the first thing I share when asked about shampoo bars,  even now that I don't sell them. I realize we can't fool  ourselves into believing that everyone will  "follow directions." But I want to see success for those who are really looking for honest change.



Obsidian said:


> Did they give you any specifics about what they didn't like? make their hair dry? Not clean it enough? You really need to know what they need changed before you can change it.


It was a gamut of reasons as I expected there would be.



Obsidian said:


> Even though I have fine, dry hair, I found genny's bar to be a bit too mild. I had to add 5% coconut and lower the Sf to 3% to stop a film forming on my hair.


Ahhhhh, perhaps I could adjust the SFs to specific hair-types. I see experiments coming :!: 
But knowing your hair-type, is there an oil that works better for you than another?


----------



## Obsidian

I haven't done a tone of experimenting with shampoo bars but I did try replacing the shea with lard once, that was a disaster, left a terrible film on my hair. I also tried using sunflower in place of the soy since I don't use soy and the lather was lacking body but it seemed ok on my hair.
I really like a little neem in my bars, I replaced the 10% soy with 5% coconut and 5% neem, everyone who uses it really likes it. My family all has fine hair, mostly straight but mine is curly. I've not had anyone with coarse or ethnic hair try one of my bars, I would imagine hair like that would need a bit more cleansing power.


----------



## gigisiguenza

Obsidian said:


> I haven't done a tone of experimenting with shampoo bars but I did try replacing the shea with lard once, that was a disaster, left a terrible film on my hair. I also tried using sunflower in place of the soy since I don't use soy and the lather was lacking body but it seemed ok on my hair.
> I really like a little neem in my bars, I replaced the 10% soy with 5% coconut and 5% neem, everyone who uses it really likes it. My family all has fine hair, mostly straight but mine is curly. I've not had anyone with coarse or ethnic hair try one of my bars, I would imagine hair like that would need a bit more cleansing power.



I hadn't considered neem oil. I've got a big ole bottle of it. Hmmmm.


----------



## Becky_Gadmer

I tried making this recipe HP last night, and I must have done something WRONG!! My bar is hard in the mold, but there is oil in the mold as well, it didn't all absorb/saponify/etc.. Did I just take it out of the Crock too soon? It was in there for an hour. I have read conflicting directions for cooking time for HP. For those of you who use this method frequently, how long are you cooking? I have made 2 other HP soaps, and didn't have this issue with either of them.

I think I will redo this CP.


----------



## cmzaha

FreeBird said:


> I am asked for a shampoo bar continually and would like to offer them.  I do make one but I formulated it specifically for my hair-type (wavy, fine, waistlength) and it works wonderfully.  When I did sell it, the feedback I got was it did not work for everyone. Because of that, I do not offer it anymore.
> 
> Here lately, though, I have been thinking I would like to try my hand at making 3-4 to cover all hair-types. So I am wondering - Is anyone taking in consideration their specific hair-type when making their shampoo bars?  What oils are best for hair-types other than mine?
> 
> TIA
> Birdie


Soap is not Shampoo. Someday folks may figure it out. Sorry I know everyone gets tired of me saying it, but it is true. Hair does not like soap


----------



## Obsidian

Carolyn, people need to learn for themselves, a few months ago I wouldn't listen either. It wasn't until my hair started breaking that I figures it out. It took well over a year for my fine hair to become badly damaged. That being said, I still use my shampoo bars on occasion, they really bring out my curls.

Becky, I've HP this recipe before with no issues, it cooked in 30 min or so. It shouldn't be oily, I would try to rebatch, see if you can get the oily incorporated. If not, its still ok to use as a facial soap as long as it doesn't zap. I wouldn't use a oily bar on my hair.


----------



## mandy318

Obsidian said:


> Carolyn, people need to learn for themselves, a few months ago I wouldn't listen either. It wasn't until my hair started breaking that I figures it out. It took well over a year for my fine hair to become badly damaged. That being said, I still use my shampoo bars on occasion, they really bring out my curls.
> 
> Becky, I've HP this recipe before with no issues, it cooked in 30 min or so. It shouldn't be oily, I would try to rebatch, see if you can get the oily incorporated. If not, its still ok to use as a facial soap as long as it doesn't zap. I wouldn't use a oily bar on my hair.



I have naturally VERY curly hair and I've been using my 100% coconut oil (20% superfat) for shampoo with an ACV rinse and it really enhances my curls. 

But I have found over the years that there is no one thing that works best for my hair 100% of the time. I think what works for my hair is to give it what it needs: conditioning only, shampoo & condition, shampoo bar/ACV, or skip washing altogether. A little bit of all of those at different times. 

Curly hair is a beast all it's own, but I'm sure other folks hair is similar.


----------



## Lbrown123

Do you think that peanut oil an acceptable replacement for soybean oil? I would like to give shampoo bars a try but I am short on oils.


----------



## Obsidian

I think peanut oil would work just fine, I quite like it in soap.


----------



## vmakkers

I've been using a variation of this recipe since February. So far, my hair has been a lot better. I find that I am losing less hair in the shower and in my brush. I infuse my olive oil with a bunch of different herbs. I like babassu better than coconut for my cleansing factor in this bar. I thought about trying a tester batch with PKO this morning in the shower. 

So, I really like to share this with everyone since it provides a story too....I had this patch of hair in the back close to my nape that for like YEARS did not grow. I got it caught in a car window once during a drunken escapade on my birthday....someone closed the window as I was leaning on it. My friend texted me in the morning and was like sooo I think I found your hair in my window. Well....that would explain why the back of my head hurt so bad. I don't drink anymore  It's been I think 5 years now and finally, it started to grow back out. The only thing different has been this shampoo bar. I've taken vitamins and all kinds of supplements, switched to sulfate free shampoo, tried all the suggestions I could find on Google  and nothing seemed to help. Maybe it's the herbal infusion, maybe it's the acv rinse, I really don't know. It's just nice to have hope that someday that patch of hair will be the same length as all it's buddies. 

I am super worried though that at some point my hair is going to fall out because of the high PH. I would be super sad as I really like the formula I've settled on and cause my hair is finally almost waist length.


----------



## Bamagirl

vmakkers said:


> I am super worried though that at some point my hair is going to fall out because of the high PH. I would be super sad as I really like the formula I've settled on and cause my hair is finally almost waist length.



I can't decide if I want to try shampoo bars because of this. I read through this entire post on Sunday and still can't decide. I was wondering, if you do the ACV rinse, does that correct the PH issues?


----------



## vmakkers

Bamagirl said:


> I can't decide if I want to try shampoo bars because of this. I read through this entire post on Sunday and still can't decide. I was wondering, if you do the ACV rinse, does that correct the PH issues?



If I remember correctly, I read in another thread that even the ACV rinse won't really correct the PH. You are still doing damage to the hair follicle.


----------



## Obsidian

Vinegar will help flatten the cuticle that the high PH has raised but it won't help repair any damage.


----------



## soapysarah

I make a shampoo bar which my husband uses; he loves it and it suits his hair, however, I am unable to use it as it leaves my hair thick with grease.  I make it with soap nuts liquid and green tea.

When I first made it and used it my hair was really soft and shiny.  Then I coloured my hair with a different make of colourant than usual and I had to stop using the soap.  I try it every now and again but it still makes my hair thick and greasy.


----------



## cmzaha

soapysarah said:


> I make a shampoo bar which my husband uses; he loves it and it suits his hair, however, I am unable to use it as it leaves my hair thick with grease.  I make it with soap nuts liquid and green tea.
> 
> When I first made it and used it my hair was really soft and shiny.  Then I coloured my hair with a different make of colourant than usual and I had to stop using the soap.  I try it every now and again but it still makes my hair thick and greasy.


Soap will also fade your hair color. Maybe some of the new formula hair colors fade less, but I have been retired from the hair business for about 20 yrs so have not kept up with all the new products. But some things do not change hair likes shampoo much better than soap.


----------



## DeeAnna

"...if you do the ACV rinse, does that correct the PH issues? ..."

The acid rinse helps to smooth the hair cuticle, yes, that's certain. But even with an acid rinse, in my experience there is some slight damage that accumulates over time. You can't rough up and smooth down, rough up and smooth down, and repeat that for many times ... and not see SOMETHING change a bit over time.

DH and I used a lye-soap shampoo bar on our fine, wavy hair for about a year. Both of us saw our hair get rougher feeling and duller looking as the year went on. DH's hair is only a few inches long at most, compared with my shoulder length hair, so this kind of damage can happen on short hair too. When we switched back to synthetic detergent shampoo about the middle of this year, the shine and softness has gradually come back. DH's hair is looking fine now, but mine will take several more more trims before it feels and looks really good again.

If shampooing with lye soap works for you, it works. But even though your hair looks great for a month or three, just bear in mind that as time goes on you may see different results.


----------



## roseb

I've used a modified version of this recipe for about 2 year now. I did notice that my hair was getting a little rougher looking. I added henna mainly to see if it would hide the gray. Wow that made all the difference in the world. I use a ACV rinse and blow dry as well as use a flat iron. My hair is shoulder length and it is looking healthy & shiny again. To the point where I've received several compliments on it.


----------



## luebella

Can I sub anything for soybean?


----------



## Susie

Soybean oil does not add anything special to soap.  Just substitute with OO or some other liquid oil. 

I had to stop using soap for shampoo.  My hair started feeling like straw even with the ACV rinse.  I did find a shampoo and conditioner that does not break my back out in rashes finally.


----------



## JayJay

roseb said:


> I've used a modified version of this recipe for about 2 year now. I did notice that my hair was getting a little rougher looking. I added henna mainly to see if it would hide the gray. Wow that made all the difference in the world. I use a ACV rinse and blow dry as well as use a flat iron. My hair is shoulder length and it is looking healthy & shiny again. To the point where I've received several compliments on it.



How do you incorporate the henna? Do you steep the powder and use the remaining liquid?


----------



## roseb

JayJay, I infused the OO with chamomile and henna, and I added a tbsp to the actual batter. This time I'm going to add an additional tbsp in hopes it will cover some the new growth that is gray.


----------



## JayJay

roseb said:


> JayJay, I infused the OO with chamomile and henna, and I added a tbsp to the actual batter. This time I'm going to add an additional tbsp in hopes it will cover some the new growth that is gray.



Thanks! That makes sense.


----------



## bonnyny

I have been using Genny's shampoo recipe since October 2013 - every 4 days - still love it. The only changes I made: 
1) use goat milk instead of water
2) instead of 10% soybean oil, increased the avocado oil to 35% and olive oil to 45% (no infusion)
3) use fragrance oil instead of eo*

Every 2 or 3 months, will do an apple cider vinegar rinse. Never have to use conditioners or change shampoos anymore. Shoulder length, fine hair. 

Lots more kisses to you, Genny!

*Am cautious around eos. Attached is a picture of my son's hands after making margaritas at the pool (lime juice). He had the rash for weeks. Can't imagine what a concentrate of anything will do.


----------



## Obsidian

Citrus has chemicals in it that react with sunshine to cause burns like that. EO is soap won't cause that that. This is one reason I don't use citrus EO's in lotions or balms.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/05/lime-juice-burn-girls-phytophotodermatitis_n_3875662.html


----------



## MySoapyHeart

*HP shampoo bar - add vinegar _after_ the cook?*

I was wondering: 
Since we know adding ACV to a CP soap only will neutralize the lye and give you _more _superfat, what would happen if you added the ACV to HP soap, and only *after *  the cook, when the soap doesn`t zap anymore? And perhaps let it cook a tinybit afterwards, just to get rid of _ some _of the exsess liquid from the ACW (because water discount isn`t  really a smart idea when HP, right?)

Has this been done before? I want to try this, and wondering if anyone added the ACV after cook to avoid this whole issue.
If no one has tried it, I will do it in a small batch, just to try it.


----------



## DeeAnna

This doesn't work any better than adding it before the cook. The ACV will still "break" the soap into fatty acids.

The most obvious example of this is when people make liquid soap and add an acid such as ACV to the soap and are unhappy when the liquid soap separates into two layers ... soap on the bottom and fatty acids on the top. 

You don't see this same type of obvious separation happen in a bar soap, but the same breakdown of the soap into fatty acids happens all the same, even though it's not apparent to the eye.


----------



## MySoapyHeart

View attachment 18693


DeeAnna said:


> This doesn't work any better than adding it before the cook. The ACV will still "break" the soap into fatty acids.
> 
> The most obvious example of this is when people make liquid soap and add an acid such as ACV to the soap and are unhappy when the liquid soap separates into two layers ... soap on the bottom and fatty acids on the top.
> 
> You don't see this same type of obvious separation happen in a bar soap, but the same breakdown of the soap into fatty acids happens all the same, even though it's not apparent to the eye.



Ok, I understand, acid will mess with the soap _whenever _it is added, good to know. Thank you for taking the time to answer probably a very obvious thing to everyone but me. I always read up on things before asking, but sometimes I can`t seem to find what I search for. 
You are a peach.


----------



## DeeAnna

Glad I could help! This question comes up pretty regularly, so don't feel bad. Many others have had the same idea, but only think to ask after their soap fails. You are being thoughtful and doing your homework ahead of time, and that's really nice to see.


----------



## MySoapyHeart

DeeAnna said:


> Glad I could help! This question comes up pretty regularly, so don't feel bad. Many others have had the same idea, but only think to ask after their soap fails. You are being thoughtful and doing your homework ahead of time, and that's really nice to see.



Thank you


----------



## EmBlakey

Hi! I've loved using this shampoo for over a year now...but I'm out of avo oil! Can I replace it with another oil or would that be taking out the best bit and compromising the shampoo..?


----------



## rainycityjen

I'll be the 30 millionth person to revive this thread and chime in with my HP version with citric acid and additives.

40% olive
30% avocado
15% soybean
10% shea
5% pko

(104 INS / 3 cleansing / 72 conditioning)

35% water
6% SF (added 6g lye per 10g citric acid to maintain this SF)

1 tsp ppo sodium lactate to lye water
pinch silk to lye water
2% Panthenol + 2% citric acid at trace (dissolved in water)
.5 oz/ppo lavender EO + peppermint EO after cook
2% honey after cook

Hoping the citric acid helps with hair residue, and honey boosts otherwise low bubbles (I'm plum out of castor and wanted virtually zero cleansing.)

Cooked up well, smells nice. Might end up being a little tingly.


----------



## cmzaha

rainycityjen said:


> I'll be the 30 millionth person to revive this thread and chime in with my HP version with citric acid and additives.
> 
> 40% olive
> 30% avocado
> 15% soybean
> 10% shea
> 5% pko
> 
> (104 INS / 3 cleansing / 72 conditioning)
> 
> 35% water
> 6% SF (added 6g lye per 10g citric acid to maintain this SF)
> 
> 1 tsp ppo sodium lactate to lye water
> pinch silk to lye water
> 2% Panthenol + 2% citric acid at trace (dissolved in water)
> .5 oz/ppo lavender EO + peppermint EO after cook
> 2% honey after cook
> 
> Hoping the citric acid helps with hair residue, and honey boosts otherwise low bubbles (I'm plum out of castor and wanted virtually zero cleansing.)
> 
> Cooked up well, smells nice. Might end up being a little tingly.


Sorry nope the citric will not help with the residue and no matter what you do hair hates soap for shampoo. PH is just to high for hair. Hopefully your hair is kept short so you keep the damage cut off...


----------



## rainycityjen

cmzaha said:


> Sorry nope the citric will not help with the residue and no matter what you do hair hates soap for shampoo. PH is just to high for hair. Hopefully your hair is kept short so you keep the damage cut off...



Geez, poo police! I read the whole thread. I know hair likes 5-7 pH. I'm not marketing this or using this as a shampoo bar, just as a gentle body bar safe for hair, for those who do prefer using lye soap to syndet shampoo every once in a while.


----------



## penelopejane

You did say you were hoping CA would help with hair residue as you are marketing it as a bar safe for hair???


----------



## Navaria

The best way I can explain what the high PH soap and low PH ACV rise does to soap is this. Take a thin piece of metal and bend it up. Then bend it down. Then bend it up. This is basically what you're doing to the hair cuticle (the part that protects the shaft) every time you put it through the rapid PH cycle of soap/ACV. You can only bend that piece of metal so many times before it breaks off. How many times depends on the type of metal. But eventually, it WILL break. Same exact thing with a hair cuticle. I personally would feel horrible selling (or even giving away) a product that I KNOW could cause that kind of damage to someone's hair.


----------



## rainycityjen

I did say I wouldn't market it as shampoo. But also said I would say it is a gentle (low cleansing/no coconut) soap that can be used on hair. I was hoping no acv rinse was necessary with this recipe - I will test that theory. That being said, do I want to recommend people exclusively use low cleansing soaps on hair? No. But if people want to mix it up or achieve a certain occasional effect, then I would feel ok providing them this bar.


----------



## DeeAnna

"I was hoping no acv rinse was necessary with this recipe - I will test that theory...."

I know people hope they can get a two-in-one "shampoo and rinse" by adding acid to soap, but soap chemistry just doesn't work that way. Citric acid in soap makes sodium citrate; it doesn't function as an acid anymore once it's in soap. Other acids make their own sodium salts (vinegar -> sodium acetate, lactic acid => sodium lactate, etc.) 

If you don't compensate for the lye that will be consumed by the acid, you will also raise the superfat in the soap. In bar soap, this increase in superfat is hidden from plain sight, but it still happens. In liquid soap, the effect of the acid is really obvious -- the soap separates into a fatty acid/fat layer and a soap layer.

A two step method is the only one that will do what you want -- wash with lye-based soap and then rinse with a mild acid solution.


----------



## rainycityjen

Appreciate you talking to the chemistry. Although my soap may be too basic to not require a rinse, the original posters suggested it may be possible for some people to not always use a rinse. Hair type and water dependent. Maybe they were fooling themselves and would have eventually require a rinse. 

My understanding of sodium citrate was that it reduced soap scum residue, which is similar to the residue you feel on your hair as a result of using soap. I did not believe that citric acid as an acid would reduce the pH.

I did account for the extra lye required if you see my original recipe. Still, it's a good note for anyone else using citric acid.


----------



## Lbrown123

I have been using one of my test shampoo bars for a month. I love the softer feel of my hair without the chemical coatings. I have been using Desert Essence conditioner. I switched to a phthalate free conditioner. I keep my hair mid length and cut off about 2 to 3 inches every 6 weeks. I also am dye free now. My whole family is trying out the testers and no complaints yet. I still want to try some infusions and additives before I say it is the best I can make but I have made the switch and am happy with my hair.


----------



## Saipan

Well, since the thread is revived, and I didn't do it, I'm going to ask a question.

Genny the first poster, said she infuses Chamomile in all her soaps except ones with Shea...  Why Chamomile, and why not with Shea?  If anyone knows.


----------



## galaxyMLP

The reason is likely due to practicality. Shea butter is solid at room temp so doing an infusion in Shea would require you to heat the butter and hold it with the chamomile buds, then without letting it cool back down too much, strain it. That's a bit too much work and it's just easier to do it in liquid oils. At least, that's my thought on it.


----------



## biarine

I am using shampoo bar for nearly 2 years now and I love them. It helps to fix my damaged hair from bleaching. I won't going back to commercial shampoo again.


----------



## JayJay

biarine said:


> I am using shampoo bar for nearly 2 years now and I love them. It helps to fix my damaged hair from bleaching. I won't going back to commercial shampoo again.



I am so glad that you posted this. Would you mind sharing more details? Do you use a vinegar rinse? Do you have hard water or soft water? How long is your hair?  Is your hair course, fine, or normal? Do you follow with a conditioner? How often do you shampoo? 

My shampoo bars just finished curing and I am building up the courage to try it on my hair.


----------



## biarine

JayJay said:


> I am so glad that you posted this. Would you mind sharing more details? Do you use a vinegar rinse? Do you have hard water or soft water? How long is your hair?  Is your hair course, fine, or normal? Do you follow with a conditioner? How often do you shampoo?
> 
> 
> 
> My shampoo bars just finished curing and I am building up the courage to try it on my hair.




I used used apple cider vinegar 1 teaspoon of vinegar to 1 cup of water then I add 3 drops of essential ( rosemary is my favourite) then I rinse like conditioner. We don't have hard water luckily and I don't use conditioner instead after I blow dry my hair I spray it with rose water then I put some virgin hemp oil mostly into the end of my hair and as well as in my scalp ( not too much). You can use any oil that you like for me I like hemp because isn't greasy but the downfall is the scent hemp has a distinct scent. Hope it helps


----------



## reflection

Navaria said:


> The best way I can explain what the high PH soap and low PH ACV rise does to soap is this. Take a thin piece of metal and bend it up. Then bend it down. Then bend it up. This is basically what you're doing to the hair cuticle (the part that protects the shaft) every time you put it through the rapid PH cycle of soap/ACV. You can only bend that piece of metal so many times before it breaks off. How many times depends on the type of metal. But eventually, it WILL break. Same exact thing with a hair cuticle. I personally would feel horrible selling (or even giving away) a product that I KNOW could cause that kind of damage to someone's hair.



since there are a couple other threads about shampoo bars currently i am reviving this thread to ask a question about this as i've been wanting to try one but don't want to damage my hair. forgive me if it is answered somewhere in the 77 pages. i can't bring myself to read the entire thread but i did read a number of pages. 

anyway, i looked up the pH of both skin and hair and for skin it is 5.5 and for hair, scalp oil & sebum it is 4.5-5.5. i know that homemade soaps are alkaline but the argument i have heard for using them on the face is to use a toner that is acidic after using a homemade soap and it brings the pH back down quite quickly (in an hour or so) so damage isn't done to facial skin. this argument is usually in response to those who claim "soap", aka detergent bars bought at the grocery store, is too alkaline for face and the whole acid mantle thing. so…my question is if this is true for homemade soap and facial skin then why would it be different for hair? why wouldn't the ACV rinse just bring the hair pH back down after using a shampoo bar just like a toner on one's face supposedly does. or, is that an incorrect theory?

thanks.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman

Please do read the thread - rinses of various types are discussed, as well as using vinegar as lye water to make the soap (sodium acetate) and so on.  It will take some reading, but it is worth it to see all of the information provided.


----------



## cmzaha

reflection said:


> since there are a couple other threads about shampoo bars currently i am reviving this thread to ask a question about this as i've been wanting to try one but don't want to damage my hair. forgive me if it is answered somewhere in the 77 pages. i can't bring myself to read the entire thread but i did read a number of pages.
> 
> anyway, i looked up the pH of both skin and hair and for skin it is 5.5 and for hair, scalp oil & sebum it is 4.5-5.5. i know that homemade soaps are alkaline but the argument i have heard for using them on the face is to use a toner that is acidic after using a homemade soap and it brings the pH back down quite quickly (in an hour or so) so damage isn't done to facial skin. this argument is usually in response to those who claim "soap", aka detergent bars bought at the grocery store, is too alkaline for face and the whole acid mantle thing. so…my question is if this is true for homemade soap and facial skin then why would it be different for hair? why wouldn't the ACV rinse just bring the hair pH back down after using a shampoo bar just like a toner on one's face supposedly does. or, is that an incorrect theory?
> 
> thanks.


Don't do it, most hair will be affected negatively within a year of using bar soap on hair. Using it once in a while if you have run out of shampoo is okay but NOT full time use. Make yourself a nice "shampoo" bar if you really do not want to buy shampoo, but I will warn you, it costs much more to make shampoo versus purchasing a nice shampoo. Vinegar rinses, lemon juice rinses will help but not fix damage. If you still do not believe it, go for it. Eventually you will most likely believe it is not good for your hair. Handmade soap is wonderful but not necessarily for everyone or everywhere


----------



## milky

reflection said:


> why wouldn't the ACV rinse just bring the hair pH back down after using a shampoo bar just like a toner on one's face supposedly does. or, is that an incorrect theory?



I'm in no way an expert, but my guess is that since skin is still alive and hair is not, it's best not to consider them in the same category. For one, their structure is visibly different. Close-up, hair looks kind of scaly. I think when hair is very damaged then those scales stick up and don't lay back down like they used to. Flaky skin can be exfoliated and moisturized into submission. It's hard to do that with hair, especially with homemade products. Might work for your hair type, but... I'm prone to split ends and don't want to risk it.


----------



## mommycarlson

I have a pixie haircut, my hair is now gray   but I have been using bar soap that I make on my hair for several months now, before that I used Shea Moisture bar soap and before that I used a shampoo bar that I purchased on Amazon.  I have had no ill effects from using the bar soap (I make a specific one that is a shampoo bar) and I do not use a conditioner.  My hair dresser is impressed with the health and appearance of my hair and has no problem with me using my own bar soap.  It may be different for people with long hair.  I love the shampoo bar, my husband uses it and his sister also requests it.


----------



## shunt2011

As we have stated, use it at your own discretion.  There is no way to formulate a soap for hair.  It's still a high PH product and most hair does not like it.  You can make it low cleansing certainly.  Those that can use it good for them (my husband).  Not me nor any of the girls in my family.


----------



## DeeAnna

Even without an acidic toner, skin is able to regain its natural pH fairly quickly after any kind of washing -- even washing with water will change the pH. Hair can't do that, since it's not living. An acid rinse can repair some of the damage, but not all, so the damage slowly accumulates.

The damage to my husband's short hair and my shoulder length hair did not really show up until at least a year after we started using lye-based soap to wash our hair. His hair became frizzy and dry looking -- the soft wave and natural shine were gone. Mine ... well, the less said about that mess, the better. I was all for this idea at first, but never again.

What works for a person is what works. There are no "shampoo police" to haul a person off to jail for using lye soap on your hair, so do what you think is best. It's just that a large percentage of the people who have tried this on their short/long, straight/wavy/curly, thick/thin, fine/coarse hair have found lye soap has done evil things to their hair in the long run. We're trying to explain this, so newcomers to this idea can have the benefit of others' experience.


----------



## reflection

thanks everyone for the feedback. i will definitely proceed with caution if i do try a shampoo bar. i hadn't heard before they could be so damaging and was planning on trying them so am a bit bummed but do appreciate the heads up.



milky said:


> I'm in no way an expert, but my guess is that since skin is still alive and hair is not, it's best not to consider them in the same category. For one, their structure is visibly different. Close-up, hair looks kind of scaly. I think when hair is very damaged then those scales stick up and don't lay back down like they used to. Flaky skin can be exfoliated and moisturized into submission. It's hard to do that with hair, especially with homemade products. Might work for your hair type, but... I'm prone to split ends and don't want to risk it.



milky, this is what i figured. the interesting thing is the argument for using handmade soap on skin, especially facial skin, versus a pH balanced detergent product is more complicated i remembered. it is about the glycerin being removed from detergent "soaps" whereas it is retained in handmade soaps. i am hoping maybe it is similar with shampoo bars and the issue isn't really about pH, or possibly just pH, but possibly other factors like using CO or other highly cleansing oils. of course that could be wishful thinking on my part. if i do try one i'm definitely steering clear of CO & will keep using an ACV rinse which is doing wonders for my hair.


----------



## DeeAnna

No, it's not about using coconut oil or not -- the shampoo bars I made had no coconut oil (and zero of the other "cleansing" oils) in the recipe. It simply the fact of using a lye-based soap that is naturally alkaline on my hair rather than using a synthetic detergent cleanser that is naturally neutral to acidic.


----------



## joy.

Just out of curiosity, what did people wash their hair with before synthetic detergents were invented?


----------



## lenarenee

Lye soap I assume. But in the old days people washed once a week,  not daily.


----------



## joy.

lenarenee said:


> Lye soap I assume. But in the old days people washed once a week,  not daily.


I was hoping someone would have an amazing long lost recipe from a great-great-grandma stashed away, for an herbal rinse or something. ; )


----------



## WeaversPort

I am brand new to soapmaking, but have some experience herbal and acid rinses.

I noticed several people had a hard time, getting oily results when starting out. If you have hard water it seems to be a common struggle. Several people have recommended the FAQ on how to deal with hard water from J.R. Liggett: https://jrliggett.com/faq#best-results.

In regards to herbal rinses and acid rinses, different people have different results. I don't use acid rinses often, maybe once a week or so. I will leave them on for a minute or so after *gently* combing through with a wide tooth combination. For an acid you can use: 


1.5 tsp lemon juice in 8 oz. warm water
1 tsp apple cider vinegar in 8 oz. warm water 
1 tsp citric acid in 8 oz warm water

For the herbal acid rinses, there are a few ways to go about it. Infusing vinegar is certainly the most "straight up". Add the herbs of choice to the vinegar (some people use kombucha vinegar, wine vinegar, most common is apple cider vinegar), warm it in a double boiler until it warm but not hot. You don't want to boil it. Then pour the herb and vinegar mixture into a clean, glass jar and let it steep for 4-6 weeks, shaking it regularly. Then you can strain out the herbs through a cheesecloth or fine mesh, and simply use the vinegar as above. 

If you are using the lemon juice or citric acid, it takes a little more effort ongoing, but less time up front. If you are infusing water, you basically make an overnight tea. Bring the water up to heat, add the herbs, put in a clean jar, close and let steep for 24 hours. You can then store the tea in the fridge to preserve it for a week or two. You can dilute the tea with warm water and the acid to keep it from being an intensely *refreshing* rinse - 2 oz tea, to 6 oz water - and acid of your choice depending on your preferences. 

I tend to leave a weeks worth in a condiment bottle in the fridge, and the rest of the herb mix can stays in the fridge.

As far as what kind of herbs to use? It really depends on what you are looking for.  If you want to use essential oils, add those after everything is done infusing and you're making your mix for the week. Then 5-7 drops in the bottle, and make sure you shake well before rinsing, to distribute the oils through the water. 

Some good herbs for the "normal" range of hair and skin are:

Lavender
Camomile
Nettle
Horsetail
Mint
Sage
Rosemary
Green tea
Fenugreek
Borage
Burdock 

If you are using essential oils, don't use Rosemary essential oil if you are pregnant or have epilepsy. 

Essential oils can be the same as the herbs above of course, additional ones might be carrot seed, Clary Sage, Patchouli, Geranium, Cedarwood, Peppermint, Lemongrass, Neroli. 

For oily skin/hair: Rosemary, Lemongrass, Tea Tree, Sage, Eucalyptus, Neem, Clove, Bay, Oregano, Mint, and Basil. 

Just be careful of Peppermint - too much and you will feel very minty fresh. 

I generally use a mix of Lavender, Sage, Chamomile, Clove, Fenugreek, Rosemary, Nettle, and Mint herbs. I then use essential oils of Clary Sage and Cedarwood. 

For blondes, I don't recommend herbal infusing Rosemary, Sage, Borage or Clove. Instead use Calendula, Chamomile, Lemon, and/or Sunflower petals. 

Brunettes consider Black Tea, Black Walnut hulls (crushed or chopped), Comfrey root, Nettle, Rosemary, Sage.

Red heads consider Calendula, Henna, Hibiscus flowers, Red Clover flowers, Rose hips, and Red Rose petals.

You can use these herb combinations minus the acids, just as a nice treat for hair and scalp - especially the horsetail and fenugreek. I hope this helps give some inspiration and food for thought, whether you use shampoo bars or not!  

 
Kaye


----------



## Kelley

My face soap recipe is similar to this. I going to try it tonight on my hair. What is your superfat %? Mine is 10% so maybe it's too oily for hair?


----------



## JillGat

*specific recipe?*

Hi, I am a newbie to this.. just started making CP soap and so far have always followed recipes that are listed in actual grams per ingredient.  Would you possibly share this recipe with me in a form that would make about 2 lbs. of soap (a 10 inch loaf mold)?  Thanks!!
Jill


----------



## shunt2011

JillGat said:


> Hi, I am a newbie to this.. just started making CP soap and so far have always followed recipes that are listed in actual grams per ingredient.  Would you possibly share this recipe with me in a form that would make about 2 lbs. of soap (a 10 inch loaf mold)?  Thanks!!
> 
> Jill




You should enter the recipe into a soap calculator for your preferred batch size. You can use either soapcalc.net or soaper.com.  All recipes should be run through a calculator as errors can happen.  Welcome!


----------



## catche

have been making shampoo bars for about 3 years now love them you might want to look into neem oil in your recipe and less superfat pls let me know how your recipe turns out


----------



## kmarvel

Lindy said:


> Genny I am so thrilled that you tried it again and like it!  It's one of those "ah hah' moments isn't it.  Especially once you've used it for awhile.  I sold out of all my shampoo bars a week and a half or so before Christmas and Save-On Foods has sold out of the beer shampoo bars already too.
> 
> Congrats on your new recipe!



I was very skeptical making and using a HP shampoo bar.  My recipe is very similar to yours Lindy and I am very pleasantly surprised how soft it make my hair feel. I usually use the apple cidar vinegar rinse but I don't see too much difference.  I love these bars.
Thanks.
Kathie


----------



## Zany_in_CO

Kaye, This is so helpful for those of us who make and use lye-based shampoo and shampoo bars. It would be great if you could copy & paste and start a new thread.



WeaversPort said:


> I am brand new to soapmaking, but have some experience herbal and acid rinses.
> 
> I noticed several people had a hard time, getting oily results when starting out. If you have hard water it seems to be a common struggle. Several people have recommended the FAQ on how to deal with hard water from J.R. Liggett: https://jrliggett.com/faq#best-results.
> 
> In regards to herbal rinses and acid rinses, different people have different results. I don't use acid rinses often, maybe once a week or so. I will leave them on for a minute or so after *gently* combing through with a wide tooth combination. For an acid you can use:
> 
> 
> 1.5 tsp lemon juice in 8 oz. warm water
> 1 tsp apple cider vinegar in 8 oz. warm water
> 1 tsp citric acid in 8 oz warm water
> 
> For the herbal acid rinses, there are a few ways to go about it. Infusing vinegar is certainly the most "straight up". Add the herbs of choice to the vinegar (some people use kombucha vinegar, wine vinegar, most common is apple cider vinegar), warm it in a double boiler until it warm but not hot. You don't want to boil it. Then pour the herb and vinegar mixture into a clean, glass jar and let it steep for 4-6 weeks, shaking it regularly. Then you can strain out the herbs through a cheesecloth or fine mesh, and simply use the vinegar as above.
> 
> If you are using the lemon juice or citric acid, it takes a little more effort ongoing, but less time up front. If you are infusing water, you basically make an overnight tea. Bring the water up to heat, add the herbs, put in a clean jar, close and let steep for 24 hours. You can then store the tea in the fridge to preserve it for a week or two. You can dilute the tea with warm water and the acid to keep it from being an intensely *refreshing* rinse - 2 oz tea, to 6 oz water - and acid of your choice depending on your preferences.
> 
> I tend to leave a weeks worth in a condiment bottle in the fridge, and the rest of the herb mix can stays in the fridge.
> 
> As far as what kind of herbs to use? It really depends on what you are looking for.  If you want to use essential oils, add those after everything is done infusing and you're making your mix for the week. Then 5-7 drops in the bottle, and make sure you shake well before rinsing, to distribute the oils through the water.
> 
> Some good herbs for the "normal" range of hair and skin are:
> 
> Lavender
> Camomile
> Nettle
> Horsetail
> Mint
> Sage
> Rosemary
> Green tea
> Fenugreek
> Borage
> Burdock
> 
> If you are using essential oils, don't use Rosemary essential oil if you are pregnant or have epilepsy.
> 
> Essential oils can be the same as the herbs above of course, additional ones might be carrot seed, Clary Sage, Patchouli, Geranium, Cedarwood, Peppermint, Lemongrass, Neroli.
> 
> For oily skin/hair: Rosemary, Lemongrass, Tea Tree, Sage, Eucalyptus, Neem, Clove, Bay, Oregano, Mint, and Basil.
> 
> Just be careful of Peppermint - too much and you will feel very minty fresh.
> 
> I generally use a mix of Lavender, Sage, Chamomile, Clove, Fenugreek, Rosemary, Nettle, and Mint herbs. I then use essential oils of Clary Sage and Cedarwood.
> 
> For blondes, I don't recommend herbal infusing Rosemary, Sage, Borage or Clove. Instead use Calendula, Chamomile, Lemon, and/or Sunflower petals.
> 
> Brunettes consider Black Tea, Black Walnut hulls (crushed or chopped), Comfrey root, Nettle, Rosemary, Sage.
> 
> Red heads consider Calendula, Henna, Hibiscus flowers, Red Clover flowers, Rose hips, and Red Rose petals.
> 
> You can use these herb combinations minus the acids, just as a nice treat for hair and scalp - especially the horsetail and fenugreek. I hope this helps give some inspiration and food for thought, whether you use shampoo bars or not!
> 
> 
> Kaye


----------



## WeaversPort

Zany_in_CO said:


> Kaye, This is so helpful for those of us who make and use lye-based shampoo and shampoo bars. It would be great if you could copy & paste and start a new thread.



Happily! I never thought about starting a new thread for it, but if it is helpful I'd be happy to!!


----------



## JillGat

shunt2011 said:


> You should enter the recipe into a soap calculator for your preferred batch size. You can use either soapcalc.net or soaper.com.  All recipes should be run through a calculator as errors can happen.  Welcome!



Thanks! I just went to soapcalc.net and learned how to use it. It opens a whole new dangerous world of saponification experimentation!  I just made the shampoo recipe (in the OP) with part of the avocado oil subbed with sweet almond oil (was low on avocado oil), and I subbed rice bran oil for the soybean oil.  I added a TB of sugar, a tsp. of sodium lactate and some rosemary EO.  I put it in a 2" PVC pipe overnight and it released easily today.  It will cure for 4 weeks and then we will see!  Thanks again.

(edited size of my PVC pipe to 2". Accidentally had said 1")



FlybyStardancer said:


> danielle--it means that you take however much the oil weighs, multiply it by .35, and use that for the water. It's the default method for calculating water amounts on the SoapCalc lye calculator--default is 38%.



I changed the calculation in soapcalc to 2:1 water to lye, as that's how I make my other soaps.  How will this make things different for this shampoo bar?  I guess my question is what are the pros and cons of the different water to lye ratios?


----------



## Sharryn

Add me as another fan of this shampoo bar recipe!  Honestly, I was very skeptical and didn't think it was possible that a hand made shampoo would be good to wash my hair with.

I've had chronic itching of my scalp for decades, and I do mean decades.  I've used this bar only three times and my scalp no longer itches and the dandruff has disappeared.  It's a true miracle!  My bars aren't completely cured yet, but I poured tiny, quarter-sized molds of little piggy faces and have been using them.  I'm so thrilled with this recipe!  Thank you Genny for sharing it!  I can't wait for the bars to cure and I'm going to shower with it to see if my skin stops itching too.  Fingers crossed!

Thank you Genny for posting and sharing your recipe. God bless you!


----------



## Spin

*Need help with this please*



Genny said:


> Water as percent of oil weight: 35%
> Superfat: 6%
> 
> Avocado Oil: 30%
> Castor Oil: 10%
> Olive Oil: 40%
> Shea Butter: 10%
> Soybean Oil: 10%
> 
> I infused chamomile in all my oils, not in the shea though.  Plus I use a TBSP of sugar in my water for added bubbles.
> 
> For scent, I used Tea Tree EO, Peppermint EO & Lavender EO at a 1:1:1 ratio.




*Click below image to enlarge. Did I put the right values in? *I have NEVER used this before and trying to figure out how much measure it takes to create this recipe from page one in this thread. Sorry, I'm a ROOKIE


----------



## penelopejane

Spin said:


> Need help with this please



Looks perfect.


----------



## Spin

Genny said:


> I haven't done a vinegar rinse when using this soap & it's been going great.
> 
> Hausfrau ~ If you don't have soybean oil, you can just leave it out & up the other oils.  I'm thinking for my next batch, I might leave out the soybean & increase the castor.



Hi Genny, thanks for recipe, we love it. Did you try leaving out the soy and increasing the Castor? How did it turn out?


----------



## Relle

Spin, just letting you know that Genny hasn't been in the forum for a long time, about 3 yrs, so probably won't see this question.


----------



## Spin

Thank you


----------



## shunt2011

Spin said:


> Hi Genny, thanks for recipe, we love it. Did you try leaving out the soy and increasing the Castor? How did it turn out?


 
Too much castor will make a sticky bar of soap.  I did not use soy increased my avocado.


----------



## penelopejane

Spin said:


> Hi Genny, thanks for recipe, we love it. Did you try leaving out the soy and increasing the Castor? How did it turn out?



I agree with shunt. I only use 5% castor oil max. Substitute more OO or Ricebran or sunflower or safflower oil for the soybean oil if Avocado oil is too expensive.


----------



## soap1daze

Would someone share the link to Lindy's original recipe.  I can't find my copy and wanted to make more!  Thank you.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman

soap1daze said:


> Would someone share the link to Lindy's original recipe.  I can't find my copy and wanted to make more!  Thank you.


Did you check the very first post in this thread?


----------



## Alex72

Hello i'm beginner and i have a question about adding chamomile.
can i use chamomile extract powder depends of medical point of view. if yes pls some one to advice me how exactly to use it , and in wich moment.


----------



## Kim Pyrros

Genny said:


> I've never been a fan of CP shampoo bars because immediately they'd leave my hair all dried out & straw-like.  So I only used Syndet bars and never looked back.
> But a post Lindy made here http://www.soapmakingforum.com/f19/how-basic-shampoo-bar-recipe-30757/  helped me see the error of my ways.
> 
> So, I just want to thank Lindy for giving me that "duh" moment so I could create a shampoo bar that I've only used once, but I love it already.  I imagine that after some cure time, it's going to feel so much more lovely.
> I used it this morning and there was absolutely no "stripping" feel to it & it felt so conditioning that I used it on the rest of my body as well   My brush went right through my hair and now it feels so silky & smooth.
> 
> I'm feeling so good about it, I'm going to share the recipe I created:
> Water as percent of oil weight: 35%
> Superfat: 6%
> 
> Avocado Oil: 30%
> Castor Oil: 10%
> Olive Oil: 40%
> Shea Butter: 10%
> Soybean Oil: 10%
> 
> I infused chamomile in all my oils, not in the shea though.  Plus I use a TBSP of sugar in my water for added bubbles.
> 
> For scent, I used Tea Tree EO, Peppermint EO & Lavender EO at a 1:1:1 ratio.
> 
> If anyone decides to try it, please let me know how you feel about it.


----------



## Kim Pyrros

My husband and I use shampoo bars.. mine is drying to me but I just use conditioner after shampooing and it’s perfect .  He has oilier hair and it’s great-he loves it.   I just made a big batch but I am anxious to try yours.  (Mine used Tallow and I’d like to not have to use it) Then maybe my girls would try it.  Thank you.  I’ll let you know. 
Kim.


----------



## Alex72

I sow this post and because of it my question coming .
in this recipe chamomile is infused in oils . and because this process takes at least  3 weeks (as I had read ) i start to wondering can i use chamomile extract , and how.


----------



## IrishLass

Alex72 said:


> I sow this post and because of it my question coming .
> in this recipe chamomile is infused in oils . and because this process takes at least  3 weeks (as I had read ) i start to wondering can i use chamomile extract , and how.



Hi Alex- if you don't want to make an oil infusion, you can always make a 'tea infusion' instead, which you can then use as part or all of your water amount for your batch of soap. The tea infusion takes only 8 hours of steeping (instead of 3 weeks for an oil infusion). I found the steeping directions for it over on the WSP site in their Q/A section regarding their powdered chamomile extract. Their directions say to use a ratio of 2 cups of boiling water per 3 tablespoons of the powdered chamomile extract, cover, and let steep for 8 hours.

If you're going to use it as your lye water, I would strain it after steeping and refrigerate it to get it cold before adding the lye.

Or you can mix your lye with an equal amount of water in weight, and then to your batter add the tea infusion as your remaining amount of water that's needed.

Here are some other sites I found with instructions of how to add powdered chamomile extract to soap:

https://botaniesoap.com/soapmaking-supplies/herbs-dry/herbs-chamomile-powder.html

http://www.lovinsoap.com/2015/07/chamomile-yarrow-herb-soap/


IrishLass


----------



## CartecayFarm

Could someone post the actual recipe as the orginal http://www.soapmakingforum.com/f19/how-basic-shampoo-bar-recipe-30757/  with the recipe doesn't exist?  I am new to making shampoo bars and my shampoo bars have been a flop.  Can someone post a recipe for a dumb head like me?  Thanks!


----------



## PaganArts

Genny said:


> I've never been a fan of CP shampoo bars because immediately they'd leave my hair all dried out & straw-like.  So I only used Syndet bars and never looked back.
> But a post Lindy made here http://www.soapmakingforum.com/f19/how-basic-shampoo-bar-recipe-30757/  helped me see the error of my ways.
> 
> So, I just want to thank Lindy for giving me that "duh" moment so I could create a shampoo bar that I've only used once, but I love it already.  I imagine that after some cure time, it's going to feel so much more lovely.
> I used it this morning and there was absolutely no "stripping" feel to it & it felt so conditioning that I used it on the rest of my body as well   My brush went right through my hair and now it feels so silky & smooth.
> 
> I'm feeling so good about it, I'm going to share the recipe I created:
> Water as percent of oil weight: 35%
> Superfat: 6%
> 
> Avocado Oil: 30%
> Castor Oil: 10%
> Olive Oil: 40%
> Shea Butter: 10%
> Soybean Oil: 10%
> 
> I infused chamomile in all my oils, not in the shea though.  Plus I use a TBSP of sugar in my water for added bubbles.
> 
> For scent, I used Tea Tree EO, Peppermint EO & Lavender EO at a 1:1:1 ratio.
> 
> If anyone decides to try it, please let me know how you feel about it.


I'm still relatively new to soaping, I've wanted to make shampoo bars as well but ones I've bought leave my hair dry or a film on it. I work with weights not percentage (I'm horrible at math) so when I figure this out I'm going to try it.


----------



## Alex72

IrishLass said:


> Hi Alex- if you don't want to make an oil infusion, you can always make a 'tea infusion' instead, which you can then use as part or all of your water amount for your batch of soap. The tea infusion takes only 8 hours of steeping (instead of 3 weeks for an oil infusion). I found the steeping directions for it over on the WSP site in their Q/A section regarding their powdered chamomile extract. Their directions say to use a ratio of 2 cups of boiling water per 3 tablespoons of the powdered chamomile extract, cover, and let steep for 8 hours.
> 
> If you're going to use it as your lye water, I would strain it after steeping and refrigerate it to get it cold before adding the lye.
> 
> Or you can mix your lye with an equal amount of water in weight, and then to your batter add the tea infusion as your remaining amount of water that's needed.
> 
> Here are some other sites I found with instructions of how to add powdered chamomile extract to soap:
> 
> https://botaniesoap.com/soapmaking-supplies/herbs-dry/herbs-chamomile-powder.html
> 
> http://www.lovinsoap.com/2015/07/chamomile-yarrow-herb-soap/
> 
> 
> IrishLass


Many thanks your answer was very helpful !


----------



## shunt2011

CartecayFarm said:


> Could someone post the actual recipe as the orginal http://www.soapmakingforum.com/f19/how-basic-shampoo-bar-recipe-30757/  with the recipe doesn't exist?  I am new to making shampoo bars and my shampoo bars have been a flop.  Can someone post a recipe for a dumb head like me?  Thanks!



It's on the very first page/first post of this thread.



PaganArts said:


> I'm still relatively new to soaping, I've wanted to make shampoo bars as well but ones I've bought leave my hair dry or a film on it. I work with weights not percentage (I'm horrible at math) so when I figure this out I'm going to try it.



You really need to make soap by percentages.  Using a soap calculator makes it easy.   Also be sure to measure in grams.....more accurate especially when first making small batches as a beginner.  I make large batches and still weigh in grams for accuracy.


----------



## IrishLass

CartecayFarm said:


> Could someone post the actual recipe as the orginal http://www.soapmakingforum.com/f19/how-basic-shampoo-bar-recipe-30757/  with the recipe doesn't exist?  I am new to making shampoo bars and my shampoo bars have been a flop.  Can someone post a recipe for a dumb head like me?  Thanks!



Welcome, CartecayFarm!  I just went in and fixed the broken link (it works now), but for what it's worth, Lindy's post in the linked thread that Genny referred to in her opening post does not contain Lindy's shampoo bar recipe.....it only includes Lindy's advice to not use coconut oil in a shampoo bar. Lindy has actually never posted her shampoo bar recipe on the forum, and whenever she was asked, she was always very adamant about not doing so since its a best-selling item in her line of handmade products. She was, however always generous with giving advice/tips on what types of oils to use or to avoid when formulating a good shampoo bar, and also what kinds of additives are good to include.

Here are some of Lindy's posts where she gives advice/tips on making a good shampoo bar:

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/thr...de-shampoo-and-other-stuff.28892/#post-272818

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/making-shampoo-bar-soap.28884/#post-272807

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/making-shampoo-bar-soap.28884/#post-272914


HTH!
IrishLass


----------



## CartecayFarm

Thank you for your warm welcome.  Do I understand that there is no lye in the shampoo bar?  I make goat's milk soap and sell a lot of it but have not been successful in making shampoo, it leaves my hair heavy and dry feeling.


----------



## Obsidian

CartecayFarm said:


> Thank you for your warm welcome.  Do I understand that there is no lye in the shampoo bar?  I make goat's milk soap and sell a lot of it but have not been successful in making shampoo, it leaves my hair heavy and dry feeling.



shampoo bars are made with lye but like other lye soap, none remains after saponification if it was formulated properly.

Most people can't use lye soap on their hair. Generally leaves it dry, coated and eventually damaged to the point of needing to cut all off.

I used shampoo bars for two years, thought my hair was fine until it suddenly started snapping off in big chunks. I had to shave it all off.


----------



## CartecayFarm

So what is the answer to making shampoo, with lye or without? I am more confused than ever!


----------



## IrishLass

CartecayFarm said:


> So what is the answer to making shampoo, with lye or without? I am more confused than ever!



The shampoo bar recipes that are included in this particular thread all use lye as the catalyst for making the soap, but as Obsidian pointed out, once the chemical reaction of saponification is complete, there is no more raw lye present (it has all been reacted with the oils to form soap, if properly made).

There is another way to make shampoo bars, though, that doesn't rely on lye, but synthetic detergents instead, such as SLS or SLES or Cocoa Betaine, etc.....



IrishLass


----------



## soap1daze

Kim Pyrros would you post the original recipe so we can compare you rendition to the original and give us ideas of how to modify our own please?  The link doesn't go to the original recipe Lindy shared.  I've made syndet bars and love them so would love to try a CP shampoo bar.


----------



## shunt2011

soap1daze said:


> Kim Pyrros would you post the original recipe so we can compare you rendition to the original and give us ideas of how to modify our own please?  The link doesn't go to the original recipe Lindy shared.  I've made syndet bars and love them so would love to try a CP shampoo bar.



According to a previous post you've made CP shampoo....Back in October/lost the recipe to make again. 
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/shampoo-bar-thanks-lindy.30946/page-40

CP shampoo bars are a totally different animal from syndet......Much harsher on the hair.


----------



## IrishLass

soap1daze said:


> The link doesn't go to the original recipe Lindy shared.



As explained in post #808 of this thread, Lindy never shared her shampoo bar recipe at any time on the forum. Lots of tips- yes- but never her recipe (it was one of her biggest sellers). 

The link that Genny supplied in her opening post simply brings you to a thread where Genny had read a post by Lindy that helped her (Genny), in her own words, "to see the error of my ways".

Lindy's specific post in the linked thread that Genny refers to has having helped her to see the error of her ways is post #4, where Lindy simply cautioned against using coconut oil in a shampoo bar. The fact that that's the post Genny is referring to in her opening post in _this_ thread becomes clear when you read post #5  (written by Genny) in the linked thread.

Hope that clears up any confusion to anyone hoping to find Lindy's recipe. Trust me, you won't find it. 


IrishLass


----------



## zanzalawi

Obsidian said:


> shampoo bars are made with lye but like other lye soap, none remains after saponification if it was formulated properly.
> 
> Most people can't use lye soap on their hair. Generally leaves it dry, coated and eventually damaged to the point of needing to cut all off.
> 
> I used shampoo bars for two years, thought my hair was fine until it suddenly started snapping off in big chunks. I had to shave it all off.



This is terrifying!
Totally makes me rethink trying out shampoo bars!


----------



## Obsidian

Yes it is and I'm not the only one its happened to. Its just not worth it in my opinion unless you have a pixie.


----------



## shunt2011

Happened to me as well, had to cut my hair short


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman

Just to throw it out here- I'm playing with using clay to wash my hair. It's seems to be working well so far, but it's only been about a month and my hair is short (not that there is a lot of it any more [emoji19])


----------



## Zany_in_CO

zanzalawi said:


> This is terrifying!
> Totally makes me rethink trying out shampoo bars!


Many soapers make and use lye-based shampoo bars and lye-based liquid shampoo. Myself included.  It's important to rinse thoroughly after shampooing, with increasingly cool water until it's as cold as you can stand it. Follow up with a vinegar rinse to restore the acid mantle of the scalp. When I first tried a shampoo bar in 2004 it took about a year for my hair to get used to it. I even went back to OTC shampoo a few times during that year. This is typical of other soapers' experience as well. Once my hair adjusted, I've used whatever bar that we happened to be test driving in the shower without any negative effects. I now make and use my own Flaxseed Shampoo and just love the results. I don't even need conditioner. 

Read more about the benefits of Shampoo Bars on the Chagrin Valley Site. Links:

Why Use A Natural Shampoo Bar?

Everything About Shampoo Bars


----------



## Debs

I am soooo excited!!  I was thinking about making a shampoo bar as I keep getting asked if I make shampoo.  Being determined not to make a liquid one in plastic I simply have not got round to trying to make one.  So, where do I go for inspiration...here, and this is the thread I find!! I am on page 12 so far and trying to write down all the tips as I go along;  Think I am too impatient however and might make a bar of Ginny's original then I can at least see how it is for me.  Thanks Ginny!!!


----------



## Relle

Genny's not here anymore, but good luck with your shampoo bar.


----------



## Zany_in_CO

Relle said:


> Genny's not here anymore, but good luck with your shampoo bar.





Debs said:


> ... *I am on page 12 so far and trying to write down all the tips as I go along*;  Think I am too impatient however and might make a bar of Genny's original then I can at least see how it is for me.  Thanks Ginny!!!


@ Debs - If the recipe works for you, it would be great if you could start a new thread "Thanks Genny!" --  and link back to this one --

@ Relle - -- then this one could be locked ??? -- it really is getting to be a lot to slog through. Just a thought.


----------



## cmzaha

Debs said:


> I am soooo excited!!  I was thinking about making a shampoo bar as I keep getting asked if I make shampoo.  Being determined not to make a liquid one in plastic I simply have not got round to trying to make one.  So, where do I go for inspiration...here, and this is the thread I find!! I am on page 12 so far and trying to write down all the tips as I go along;  Think I am too impatient however and might make a bar of Ginny's original then I can at least see how it is for me.  Thanks Ginny!!!


I know laws pertaining are much different in the UK than they are in the US, but I would think twice about selling soap as shampoo. Even Wen was sued over his lye based shampoo he was making with his hair system. As far as I remember it has been discontinued from his hair product line. For some people soap as shampoo is very damaging to the hair, and he now uses a conditioner based system. I think I know you have to pass everything through an Assessor, but I wonder if assessment distinguishes soap from shampoo. 

I personally, am not about to test my insurance and sell soap as shampoo. I do sell syndet shampoo bars. Although I realize many use soap and say they do well with it does not always mean it is true. Talk is easy, to admit one is wrong is harder. Fortunetly many customers that do not like something will not re-purchase and quit using the item, but if their hair is damaged you will hear from them. Problem there is, often they do not know until it is to late. For short cut often it can be fine, but long hair not being cut often to cut off the damage can be devastating. So do think twice about calling soap shampoo. Lye based soap is Not the answer to everything as much as many soapmakers like to believe. I also prefer a gentle m&p soap for young children over lye based soap. But that is for another thread not this one.


----------



## Debs

Zany_in_CO said:


> @ Debs - If the recipe works for you, it would be great if you could start a new thread "Thanks Genny!" --  and link back to this one --
> 
> @ Relle - -- then this one could be locked ??? -- it really is getting to be a lot to slog through. Just a thought.


yes of course..think that is a good idea as it is quite a read!!  I thought I had enough avocado oil but when I looked I only had half the needed amount so it's on order, but once I try it I will start a new thread.



cmzaha said:


> I know laws pertaining are much different in the UK than they are in the US, but I would think twice about selling soap as shampoo. Even Wen was sued over his lye based shampoo he was making with his hair system. As far as I remember it has been discontinued from his hair product line. For some people soap as shampoo is very damaging to the hair, and he now uses a conditioner based system. I think I know you have to pass everything through an Assessor, but I wonder if assessment distinguishes soap from shampoo.
> 
> I personally, am not about to test my insurance and sell soap as shampoo. I do sell syndet shampoo bars. Although I realize many use soap and say they do well with it does not always mean it is true. Talk is easy, to admit one is wrong is harder. Fortunetly many customers that do not like something will not re-purchase and quit using the item, but if their hair is damaged you will hear from them. Problem there is, often they do not know until it is to late. For short cut often it can be fine, but long hair not being cut often to cut off the damage can be devastating. So do think twice about calling soap shampoo. Lye based soap is Not the answer to everything as much as many soapmakers like to believe. I also prefer a gentle m&p soap for young children over lye based soap. But that is for another thread not this one.


Interesting point thank you.  You are right that in the UK everything has to be tested...at great cost!!  I will check what you say out with the assessor and go from there.  I have tried SB from various shops and ended up with dry hair which is why I want to develop my own...watch this space!!!


----------



## cmzaha

Not sure the Assessor is really going to get the difference between a shampoo bar and soap bar. They are testing ingredients as far as I understand. Also I am guessing Assessors are not Cosmetologists. One thing to think about, if you do not like them on your hair why would you risk making and selling them? I would put my time and money into developing an actual shampoo bar (syndet), which can be gentle cleansing and conditioning, which a soap bar cannot be


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman

Agreed. An assessor will make sure that the recipe isn't going to be technically dangerous, not if it will actually be any good. 

I specify "technically dangerous" because you might well use a recipe with peanut oil and some people can have a reaction to that (just one example) but it would pass - it's up to the customer to check a product if they have allergies. But while a shampoo bar might be to all intense and purposes safe from a general point of view, it won't get stopped because of the effect that it might have on someone's hair.


----------



## shunt2011

And this recipe is the one that ruined my hair.  I like it as a gentle body bar though.


----------



## Relle

Debs said:


> yes of course..think that is a good idea as it is quite a read!!  I thought I had enough avocado oil but when I looked I only had half the needed amount so it's on order, but once I try it I will start a new thread.



Debs, keep posting here and don't start a new thread , this thread won't be locked.


----------



## cmzaha

The vinegar rinse will restore the ph and help lay down the cuticle, but the hair cuticle has already been opened up and the soap has entered the hair shaft, The vinegar will help rinse the soap residue off the shaft not necessarily what has entered the shaft. Think about how a door open and closes and this his how color can be introduced into the hair shaft and how perms work. I say if a person wants to risk it go for it, but it is unkind to sell it as shampoo. Remember hair is dead and once it is destroyed you cannot fix it other than cut it


----------



## Odinrescue

I have been using a shampoo bar now for about a year my hair is heathy do not use a vinegar rinse.  I got my recipe from the book Soap Makers Workshop. It is called Lavender shampoo/ conditioner bar.


----------



## SusanP

What was your cure time on this recipe?  Did you get a hard bar of soap?


----------



## shunt2011

I cured mine 12 weeks.  Since it's mostly liquid oils I wanted to give it a good cure.  Again, I don't use it on my hair.  It's a nice facial soap or body soap.   I tweak it a bit as I don't use Canola.


----------



## Suzy Knight

adoptapitbull said:


> Do you need a vinegar rinse after using the shampoo bar?
> 
> I've read a lot of the recipes call for one. I would definitely not want to do that to my hair. The smell...yuck!
> 
> Is it the avocado that makes it better for hair as opposed to other soaping oils?


I mix my vinegar with rosewater. It smells a LOT better!


----------



## shunt2011

Suzy Knight said:


> I mix my vinegar with rosewater. It smells a LOT better!


The OP hasn't been here since 2013.


----------



## Suzy Knight

shunt2011 said:


> The OP hasn't been here since 2013.


OP?


----------



## shunt2011

Suzy Knight said:


> OP?


Other poster (adoptapitbull)


----------



## Suzy Knight

Haha, so much for my good deed of the day!


----------



## LadySarah370

Genny said:


> I've never been a fan of CP shampoo bars because immediately they'd leave my hair all dried out & straw-like.  So I only used Syndet bars and never looked back.
> But a post Lindy made here https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/how-is-this-for-a-basic-shampoo-bar-recipe.30757/  helped me see the error of my ways.
> 
> So, I just want to thank Lindy for giving me that "duh" moment so I could create a shampoo bar that I've only used once, but I love it already.  I imagine that after some cure time, it's going to feel so much more lovely.
> I used it this morning and there was absolutely no "stripping" feel to it & it felt so conditioning that I used it on the rest of my body as well   My brush went right through my hair and now it feels so silky & smooth.
> 
> I'm feeling so good about it, I'm going to share the recipe I created:
> Water as percent of oil weight: 35%
> Superfat: 6%
> 
> Avocado Oil: 30%
> Castor Oil: 10%
> Olive Oil: 40%
> Shea Butter: 10%
> Soybean Oil: 10%
> 
> I infused chamomile in all my oils, not in the shea though.  Plus I use a TBSP of sugar in my water for added bubbles.
> 
> For scent, I used Tea Tree EO, Peppermint EO & Lavender EO at a 1:1:1 ratio.
> 
> If anyone decides to try it, please let me know how you feel about it.


 can I sub the soybean oil for another oil?


----------



## shunt2011

LadySarah370 said:


> can I sub the soybean oil for another oil?



Yes, I sub it with HO sunflower.


----------

