# I keep seeing and hearing this a lot...



## LaToya (Feb 6, 2019)

I keep crossing posts saying that there is not a lot of money in soap making because there is too much competition.

Am I the only one who feels that only you (and maybe your higher power) have the power to change that mindset? I honestly feel that if you perfect your craft, and have your own uniqueness about it, there's no telling how high you can soar. I'm just being honest. What do you think?


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## shunt2011 (Feb 6, 2019)

It depends on many things.  Have you visited any venues in your area?   Here there are 4-5 soap makers at each show.   Farmer's markets here have 2-3.    I've been doing this long enough and have found shows where I've got a base of customers.  It took several years to get that though.  Customers want to see you regularly at these venues.   Even getting into many venues are tough if you are new.  I only do shows that are handmade and are juried.  You can certainly get lucky but if you talk to most soap makers, they certainly aren't making a living off doing it.   I'm still working full time but enjoy doing my shows and have a lot of dedicated customers who make it worth my time to continue to do this.  Shows are a lot of work and take a lot of time plus some are really expensive to get into. 

Many who jump into selling are very new and started this great hobby but found it isn't a cheap hobby.  So they start selling and most don't stick around long.


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## dixiedragon (Feb 6, 2019)

I would say it's not EASY money. Sometimes people come on here with the idea that they'll whip out a few dozen bars of soap, sell them for $5 each, and make a quick few hundred bucks. The main barrier to making sales isn't perfecting your craft or having your own "uniqueness" - it's finding customers who are willing to pay for that. I would love to see some numbers from some of the people who sell here regarding how much they make from craft sales, online sales and wholesale accounts. 

Sales is less about quality and more about connections and networking. Quality is important for REPEAT sales, but you have to make that FIRST sale.


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## jcandleattic (Feb 6, 2019)

ITA with both Shari and Dixiedragon, it's not easy money, and it's not a cheap hobby/business. It takes lot of upfront money for supplies, and a long time of selling, at venues/online/other outlets to build up a costumer base. 
In my instance even longer to build an online base. (my online base is basically non-existent because i just do not have the time needed to dedicate myself to my website/social media/online presence) my online sales will spike right after I do a show, but dwindle down shortly after because of the aforementioned lack of time and there's nothing "new and exciting" to see on my website so most of my regulars will wait for me to come back to the shows to purchase.


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## amd (Feb 6, 2019)

You also have to consider how many repeat customers you need to have a profitable business. The majority of my repeat customers purchase 10 bars a year - at $5 per bar, that $50 gross income per customer. (People can only use so much soap.) Take out COG (cost of goods), insurance, website fees, show fees, etc. and it takes a lot of repeat regulars to be profitable. It takes years to get that stable customer base so that you're not relying on random sales. Not everyone who buys from you will be a repeat customer, you hope they will, but most won't.


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## Hendejm (Feb 6, 2019)

dixiedragon said:


> Sales is less about quality and more about connections and networking. Quality is important for REPEAT sales, but you have to make that FIRST sale


I agree wholeheartedly with that statement. I will also add that finding your niche and creating a brand identity that hits on all fronts, across all platforms. It isn’t enough to have a great product - you have to have great packaging, great message, consistent branding, have a web, print, social media, and word of mouth program that drives your brand home.
Example:
- Soap website that clearly identifies your brand ( sexy, feminine, sweet, old fashioned, etc)
- Facebook, YouTube, twitter, instagram, Pinterest, etc with consistent and regular messaging aligned with website
- Flyers, business cards, discount coupons, etc with consistent and regular messaging aligned with website
- encourage online reviews of your product across all web platforms
- create a Soap Club to encourage repeat business
- encourage referrals by offering discounts
- partner with wholesale accounts that closely align with your brand identity. If you don’t want to sell cheap soap -don’t sell to Walmart. If you want to sell $5 soap - sell at craft fairs. If you want to sell $8 soap - sell at high end Farmers Markets and exclusive boutiques and home decor stores.

You need to have a target customer in mind.    You cannot make it in any new business by simply creating a product and hoping people will buy it.  Create a fictitious customer and give her/him a name. With every purchase  of materials ( or website, etc) you make / decide if that’s what your customer would want or need. If your customer is:

Sally, 35 years old, 3 kids, works part time at Williams Sonoma, likes to bake, belongs to PTA, starting a recycleing program in her town.

Sally probably likes:
Organic
Natural
Products that are gentle on earth
Instant gratification
Likes higher end products
Is a foodie

So what will be some things that you can bake into your product design that aligns with Sally?

Recycled packaging
Natural ingredients
Nice packaging
Simpler Design - not too frilly
Simple and expensive ingredients
Food additives in soap (coffee - oatmeal - etc)

Now your marketing message is all of those things above. If it doesn’t align to your core customer - don’t make the product.  Don’t advertise “lowest price” if you don’t want that customer.  Don’t do fancy swirls and high top soaps if you don’t want that kind of a fussy customer. Keep your messaging in line with your product - shout it from every platform available - regularly and consistently - provide great customer service....those are the things it takes to be successful.  And of course have a great product.

Sitting at a craft fair and saying hello to people passing by is not a business model. Creating all different types/styles of soaps and hoping someone buys them is not a business model.

Creating a collection of products that align with your core customer and never deviating from it is what will bring you business - your core customer will refer you to like minded people who will love your product. Creating a consistent brand message and hammering it home across all channels along with a great product will begin to create a business that can be self-sustaining and viable.

The notion that the soap market/field is overpopulated is nonsense. If your product isn’t selling it is because of:

1. Quality
2. Selection
3. Availability
4. Brand identity (or lack of it)
5. Not connecting with your core customer

Price is NOT a consideration as to whether something is successful or not. Reaching a customer that will pay the price for your product IS important.  If you are selling your soaps at a craft show and your core customer doesn’t shop at craft shows- how do you expect to sell any soap?  Why are you trying to sell your soap there? Also - do you think The Walmart customer wants a $10 bar of soap? Of course not. And Walmart knows this and as such - they don’t stock/sell high end soaps.

Where is your customer buying? Online? Whole Foods? Boutique Shops?  Find a way to reach your target customer. And guess what?  Once you target the boutique shop, Whole Foods, etc - the competition isn’t nearly as crowded because that customer doesn’t like too many choices - they believe their brand loyalty to that retailer has weeded out the types of things your core customer doesn’t like. Make sense??

Edited to add:
If you think your customer will only purchase 10 bars of soap from you in a year - then build gift boxes and baskets with your products for them to give as gifts.  It’s builds your brand and customer base and best of all - the paying customer is doing the work for you. They give the gift box to their friend (potential customer) (maybe for $50 and doubling  what your customer spends in a year) and giving you another potential customer to repeat the process.

Sorry for the long rant - I believe now, more than ever, you can be successful with your own handcrafted soaps. There are so many s venues available to the entrepreneur that weren’t available 10 years ago. If you think and try to build a business with an antiquated and outdated business model, you deserve to fail.


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## dixiedragon (Feb 6, 2019)

Good post from Hendejm! IMO, if you don't have some sort of web store - Etsy or your own page, or something else - doing craft shows is almost a waste of time. You won't be able to gain any traction and each craft show is basically trying to make a cold sale. 

I think that Hendejm's post was excellent - but I don't think you have to START off knowing the answers to those questions. But you need to know that those ARE the questions and be moving towards answering those questions and making those decisions. 

Craft shows are also an investment of time and money. You have to book shows months in advance, and pay a fee. You have to make sure you have inventory for the show. You have to get you and all of your stuff to the show. You need a tent. (Though some shows do provide them.) You will need tables, shelves, table clothes, a chair, etc. You'll need a place to stay the night if it's not local. If your car won't hold all of that, can you make two trips? They are also physically exhausting. My mom is retired and does some (she makes wood turned things). She is EXHAUSTED afterwards. Now, she is in her 60s. But if you have a full time job, a craft show means leaving early Friday to set up, spending hours doing set up, spending 8+ hrs on Saturday and/or sunday manning your booth, then spending hours breaking down. Mom's first show, it took 4 people 2 hrs to break it down. That's 8 man hours.


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## Hendejm (Feb 6, 2019)

dixiedragon said:


> but I don't think you have to START off knowing the answers to those questions. But you need to know that those ARE the questions and be moving towards answering those questions and making those decisions.


Excellent point!!  That is where you transition from a hobby into a business. Either is fine and totally acceptable but having a business but running it like a hobby is a recipe for failure.


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## MarnieSoapien (Feb 6, 2019)

> Sally probably likes:
> Organic
> Natural
> Products that are gentle on earth
> ...


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## Hendejm (Feb 6, 2019)

In my prior post I used the example of Sally - my target customer. But it doesn’t have to be high end. You could develop a target customer named Bonnie!

Bonnie is 27 year old mom of a newborn baby. She works full time at Target and also drives for Uber part time. Her husband is military and overseas st the moment. She eats fast food between jobs and picking baby up from daycare. She shops at Aldi,Walmart, and some online.

Bonnie probably likes:

Convenience - needs it yesterday
Price - she can’t afford expensive things
Fancy - when she has a chance to relax she likes something pretty and smells nice
Durability- the things she buys have to work. And maybe work double or triple duty to make it last.

So you would design a product that:

Is available online - like Amazon or Walmart.com
Sell at church fairs or craft fairs
Offers a buy more/save more message
Has extra cleansing power
Gentle for baby’s skin
Maybe has more Fragrance in it or has some fancy swirls
Is priced right - $3-5 dollar range


Now design your product and your messaging to reflect those things and do t deviate. Make sense?


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## MarnieSoapien (Feb 6, 2019)

Hendejm! For the love of... Stop following me!


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## Hendejm (Feb 6, 2019)

W


MarnieSoapien said:


> Hendejm! For the love of... Stop following me!


haha!  I though you were following me...lurking in the corner!


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## Meena (Feb 6, 2019)

The replies on this thread have been excellent.  Many of the replies are the reasons I am not an entrepreneur, and was a complete failure at my on-line jewelry "business" I started about 14 years ago (and since abandoned)!  I could not afford shows, could not afford advertising, did not know how to develop customers -- you name it.  I enjoy working for others and seeing a steady paycheck because I know that that's what my internal equilibrium needs.  

However, I don't want to discourage you, and the real reason for my post is that I just want to throw out something that I've seen with my melinated friends on Twitter who have home businesses making products:  A lot of them are making products for the niche market of other African-Americans / blacks / Moors (whichever you prefer) who are *very* motivated to purchase from black-owned businesses.  The beauty of this, also, is you have the right skin type to test it out on, whereas I would not have the first clue of what makes a good product for you.

I have no way to judge how large this niche is because my Twitter friends are a small subset of the population of this country, but it's a viable idea to at least pursue, on your end.  You could make only this type of product, or you could also make a small amount of more 'general' soap, so that some is available for purchase by other "races" (we are, at bottom, One Race - the Human Race!), but I think -- if it was me -- that I would investigate the movement toward melinateds helping melinateds because, God knows, in this country with its baleful history, ... well, I digress.  Stopping here..

You go, girl!  I'm rooting for your success, whether it's with soap or a job or however.  And I want you to know that I would have bought you that supporting membership if it would do any good, but you still wouldn't be able to post in the business forum until the required # of posts and 3 months time, so ... it wouldn't get you that 'leg up' that I'd love to give you.


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## MGM (Feb 6, 2019)

Hendejm said:


> Price is NOT a consideration as to whether something is successful or not.


See, this is why I could never sell. Because I think, what kind of idiot would pay $12 US plus $4 shipping for a bar of soap?? And yet, Royalty seems to be doing quite well. (Don't get me wrong....I love her, I love her soaps, I love her videos and I think she is sweet and has wonderful drive. And I will never give her one red cent. Luckily there appear to be many people who will. Maybe it's that whole "millennials will never be able to afford a house so they'll buy high-end coffee and lipsticks" idea.)



Hendejm said:


> Excellent point!!  That is where you transition from a hobby into a business. Either is fine and totally acceptable but having a business but running it like a hobby is a recipe for failure.


I think you'd hit the nail on the head there (BTW, your initial "rant" as you call it was a master class in marketing: informative, but also separating the wheat from the chaff. well done!).


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## melinda48 (Feb 6, 2019)

dixiedragon said:


> Good post from Hendejm! IMO, if you don't have some sort of web store - Etsy or your own page, or something else - doing craft shows is almost a waste of time. You won't be able to gain any traction and each craft show is basically trying to make a cold sale.
> 
> I think that Hendejm's post was excellent - but I don't think you have to START off knowing the answers to those questions. But you need to know that those ARE the questions and be moving towards answering those questions and making those decisions.
> 
> Craft shows are also an investment of time and money. You have to book shows months in advance, and pay a fee. You have to make sure you have inventory for the show. You have to get you and all of your stuff to the show. You need a tent. (Though some shows do provide them.) You will need tables, shelves, table clothes, a chair, etc. You'll need a place to stay the night if it's not local. If your car won't hold all of that, can you make two trips? They are also physically exhausting. My mom is retired and does some (she makes wood turned things). She is EXHAUSTED afterwards. Now, she is in her 60s. But if you have a full time job, a craft show means leaving early Friday to set up, spending hours doing set up, spending 8+ hrs on Saturday and/or sunday manning your booth, then spending hours breaking down. Mom's first show, it took 4 people 2 hrs to break it down. That's 8 man hours.


We did juried shows on the east coast for several years (metalwork, not Soap) but I will say that if you can’t set up or tear down in 30 minutes, you may want to look at simplifying your display. I know there is some playing around after you get set up but setting up should not take two hours.


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## Hendejm (Feb 6, 2019)

MGM said:


> See, this is why I could never sell. Because I think, what kind of idiot would pay $12 US plus $4 shipping for a bar of soap?? And yet, Royalty seems to be doing quite well. (Don't get me wrong....I love her, I love her soaps, I love her videos and I think she is sweet and has wonderful drive. And I will never give her one red cent. Luckily there appear to be many people who will. Maybe it's that whole "millennials will never be able to afford a house so they'll buy high-end coffee and lipsticks" idea.)


Royalty Soap knows her core customer! and she makes money with YouTube videos (per click/view - adds up to about $100,000 a year! - see attached screen shot). She also partners with Nurture Soap to sell her piping kit. Add in her Etsy store and she’s doing ok!

She is a perfect example of knowing her customer - and she markets to them heavily and directly!  She never strays from her core customer. 

Link: https://socialblade.com/youtube/user/royaltysoaps/monthly


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## Marilyn Norgart (Feb 6, 2019)

thanks for everybody's input in this post.  I think this is just what anybody thinking about selling needs to hear.


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## Hendejm (Feb 6, 2019)

MGM said:


> I think you'd hit the nail on the head there (BTW, your initial "rant" as you call it was a master class in marketing: informative, but also separating the wheat from the chaff. well done!).


Thank you!!!  I’ve had years of experience - successes and failure that make me the “big mouthed - know it all” you see today!  I worked in senior management with some of the United States largest retailers - and my own business that did approx $1 million/annual sales.  I’ve made too many mistakes to count - learning from them is what sets  someone apart from the pack - those that just whine and complain when life hands them lemons!


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## Hendejm (Feb 6, 2019)

You CAN NEVER ASSUME that your core customer is just like you!  If you do - then you are only sell to people that are like YOU!  If you are ok with selling to a customer  that doesn’t want to pay $10 for a bar of soap - then create something that can retail for $5 - and go after that customer. Market to where you shop, dine, get hair cut, socialize, etc. those businesses have already identified you as a customer that they want. Either sell to those companies - or mimic their brand/marketing strategies so that you can attract other customers that are like you. This idea works across all levels, demographics, price points,  it doesn’t matter.

The biggest mistake is trying to attract both types of customers - you will alienate both and sales will suffer. A high end shopper doesn’t want to shop at Walmart (usually) - and a low end shopper doesn’t want to shop at Newman Marcus. Pick a demographic - and market the hell out of it and don’t deviate. That’s why Toyota has a separate brand for luxury cars -Lexus!  High end shoppers don’t want a Toyota and average car shoppers don’t want a Lexus.


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## Meena (Feb 6, 2019)

Hendejm said:


> Royalty Soap knows her core customer! and she makes money with YouTube videos (per click/view - adds up to about $100,000 a year! - see attached screen shot). She also partners with Nurture Soap to sell her piping kit. Add in her Etsy store and she’s doing ok!
> 
> She is a perfect example of knowing her customer - and she markets to them heavily and directly!  She never strays from her core customer.
> 
> ...



Holy crap, $100K off CLICKS?!?  That's 2 years of full-time work for me.  I'll have to ask for the Entrepreneur Gene next life.  I was behind the barn door when they were handing that one out.


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## Hendejm (Feb 6, 2019)

And - because my mind won’t shut off on this topic - if you’ve read my other posts then you know Sally and Bonnie -

There are some Bonnie’s out there that dream of becoming a Sally!  Your marketing campaign plays directly to who she aspires to be - and for only $8-$10 - you can make her feel like a Sally - if only in the shower!

There are also Sallies that aspire or circumstances dictate that she become more like Bonnie - market to her and you can help her become more cost conscious while still providing a good product at a good price!


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## Kurt (Feb 6, 2019)

@Hendejm, selfless and awesome post.

PS. I think Kurt likes Sally


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## Hendejm (Feb 6, 2019)

Kurt said:


> @Hendejm, selfless and awesome post.
> 
> PS. I think Kurt likes Sally


Thank you !  Me like Sally too


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## Rhoda Ann Banta (Feb 6, 2019)

Latoya D. said:


> I keep crossing posts saying that there is not a lot of money in soap making because there is too much competition.
> 
> Am I the only one who feels that only you (and maybe your higher power) have the power to change that mindset? I honestly feel that if you perfect your craft, and have your own uniqueness about it, there's no telling how high you can soar. I'm just being honest. What do you think?


I agree I'm just starting out and I'm a little afraid of that myself however I do know from past sales experience is that what makes the product sell is one my knowledge of it to how I present it and 3 knowing your Market. And of course sticking with it I don't expect to be a great success overnight but I do believe that I apply myself and learn and apply what I learn I will be a success.


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## Hendejm (Feb 6, 2019)

Rhoda Ann Banta said:


> I agree I'm just starting out and I'm a little afraid of that myself however I do know from past sales experience is that what makes the product sell is one my knowledge of it to how I present it and 3 knowing your Market. And of course sticking with it I don't expect to be a great success overnight but I do believe that I apply myself and learn and apply what I learn I will be a success.


Great thoughts!  Keep in mind product knowledge and sales ability skills can only be applied ONCE you have the customer. Marketing and sales are 2 very different things. You can be a great talker with lots of product knowledge - but if you don’t have a potential customer - you’d be talking to the wind.  Marketing works in conjunction with sales - but neither can replace the other and can not exist without the other. Unless you are just a salesperson - when in that case - someone else has done the marketing for you and gotten that person in the door and standing in front of you. I have LOTS of thoughts on selling and how to make the sale, upsell, etc too but that’s another topic!


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## Meena (Feb 6, 2019)

Doing my usual researching 15 things at once, I came across this video that you might find super interesting. 

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## redhead1226 (Feb 6, 2019)

This is such a great topic and frankly the answer may not be the same for everyone. I have been making soap for over a decade. I am also an herbalist. I love making all of my products. But even though I love making soap, frankly it is not my money maker. Don't get me wrong - I sell plenty of soap. But all of my other concoctions are where the money is for me. My herbalist business has taken me to my "happy place" as I have a serious education and respect for plant medicine. And as we all know, herbs as medicine in soap is just not true.  I make 5 soap recipes that took me years to perfect and the clients I have wont buy any others. That is the sweet spot in this business. Repeat Customers. I did one show/market in almost 12 years. I didn't like it and never did it again.  My etsy store does well but my local clients that come here to pick up products is the bulk of my business.  Now granted I do not make a living from this. I am retired and have other money. It is more of a hobby to me for the most part.  I sell my products to be able to buy more ingredients and to keep making product.  

So with all of that being said - I think if this had to be my main source of income, I would not be doing it. At 64 Im not interested in working that hard anymore Time to rest and enjoy other things. I worked my whole life in a stress heavy career. 

This business is saturated and frankly the products out there aren't great.  Many consumers are turned off. So I don't know. I feel it has changed. You have to be able to not make any money for a long time to give it a shot.  And work hard and promote your products.


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## cmzaha (Feb 6, 2019)

redhead1226 said:


> This is such a great topic and frankly the answer may not be the same for everyone. I have been making soap for over a decade. I am also an herbalist. I love making all of my products. But even though I love making soap, frankly it is not my money maker. Don't get me wrong - I sell plenty of soap. But all of my other concoctions are where the money is for me. My herbalist business has taken me to my "happy place" as I have a serious education and respect for plant medicine. And as we all know, herbs as medicine in soap is just not true.  I make 5 soap recipes that took me years to perfect and the clients I have wont buy any others. That is the sweet spot in this business. Repeat Customers. I did one show/market in almost 12 years. I didn't like it and never did it again.  My etsy store does well but my local clients that come here to pick up products is the bulk of my business.  Now granted I do not make a living from this. I am retired and have other money. It is more of a hobby to me for the most part.  I sell my products to be able to buy more ingredients and to keep making product.
> 
> So with all of that being said - I think if this had to be my main source of income, I would not be doing it. At 64 Im not interested in working that hard anymore Time to rest and enjoy other things. I worked my whole life in a stress heavy career.
> 
> This business is saturated and frankly the products out there aren't great.  Many consumers are turned off. So I don't know. I feel it has changed. You have to be able to not make any money for a long time to give it a shot.  And work hard and promote your products.


The market has changed in the last few years. When we started, approx 9 years ago it was mainly my daughter's business with her husband helping because he could not find work. Most sales were online with a customer base of 300+ which came from purchasing mailing lists, doing mailings, supplying some of the companies that sent out monthly boxes, daily promoting on the computer. They did make a living but had no time to do anything else. There were times we packaged up 500 samples for a promoting company. These type promotions were gain a few customers, but it took a long time to build up her business. All went well for 3 yrs or so and then the web became inundated with DIY and sales steadily fell, even though she was working as hard. They also did a large weekly market that my husband and I took over because her health would not let her continue. A couple of years ago she finally gave up and shut it down. We refused to wholesale because I could make not make enough money with my soap recipes to make it worth the time it would take to make all the soap. I fully agree with redhead I would not have this as my main source of income. This is something to do after retirement. I do enjoy doing a few outdoor markets but I pick and choose, if they cost to much I do not attend. It is extremely hard work

As for niche markets, they are also hard no matter how much advertising you do. I have a friend that is African American who makes hair and skin products for his ethnic community. He and his wife make very good products but they struggle with the business. He recently spent $2700 for a large hair expo with gained no sales or customers. So even niche markets are hard. 

Today was a good example of how markets are going. I was able to make my weekly market when I have not been to in a couple of weeks, I did sell a decent amount today but only 1 lotion, 1 balm, 3 soaps. a few misc items. So I sold approx $40 in B&B and $200+ in crochet hats and hoods. These were new customers, since my regulars will not be ready for more soap next month. As amd mentioned some will purchase 6 months to a years worth of soap. This does not make big amounts of moolah. As for Etsy, we had a store that made a couple of sales, that will barely buy a Starbucks Coffee Drink...

So while Hendejm has very good marketing suggestions I will not agree that they are going to make a lot of money with soaps or general B&B products. I have known many B&B makers that had, had being the operative work here, that made livings selling their products but, like my daughter, are now out of business. So I wish anyone starting out lots of good karma


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## Micchi (Feb 6, 2019)

There is a lot of competition in some areas, and not a lot in other areas. 

As others have mentioned, it's going to come down to a lot of marketing. Royalty Soaps can charge $12 for a bar of soap because she does small batch, limited run, creative art pieces of soap. Her products are whimsical, and quality, and she's nailed that exclusivity aspect very well. She lets her personality shine through, in both the actual soap and in her YouTube videos, and that also draws people into feeling like they're buying from a friend. She publicly releases her process, so people can see how much work goes into that bar of soap, and then they're willing to pay for that effort. Because every soap she makes, even remakes of previous soaps, comes out unique and different, people want to come back for another art piece.

Finding your niche in the market can be difficult. I started by figuring out what I enjoy making as a whole, and then built a profile based on what kind of person what I enjoy would appeal to. Whimsical, colorful, unique, maybe sometimes a little nerdy, sometimes a little unexpected. I'm heavily marketing to marginalized folks - as a queer, trans, Native person, I know I definitely prefer to buy from and support creators who fall into those categories, and that I'm very willing to spend more money there. So I have planned products that slot into that, as well. My soaps are also vegan, and use sustainably-harvested palm oil. That's not necessarily my intended market, as I'm making these soaps with these ingredients because of my own ethical code, but it does add label appeal, so I am absolutely going to capitalize on it.

I don't necessarily expect to sell out of soap in a few hours, or even a couple of weeks. But I do think that, even with a higher price tag, my product will move at a pace that meets my sales goals.


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## SaltedFig (Feb 7, 2019)

Are you targeting only 50% of the population @Hendejm? 

(The 100K for the year could just as easily be interpreted as 8.5k/pa, according to the image, but the overall trend is making an awesome curve )


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## KiwiMoose (Feb 7, 2019)

Point of difference.  
To compete in a soap-laden marketplace you must have a point of difference.  
What is yours?  What makes your soap special?  Or what makes YOU special that makes someone want to buy your soap?  If I view 10 websites tonight in the search of artisan soap - why would I chose your soap, your website?  

And for continuing customers - what makes me keep coming back? The service?  Your knowledge of your product? You have something in particular that I cannot get anywhere else?  All of the above?


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## shunt2011 (Feb 7, 2019)

@KiwiMoose    I can only speak for myself.  What keeps my customers coming back is my product. Period.  I interact with them when I see them.  I know my returning customers.  But when they tell me they love my lip balm, my soap, my scrubs etc....that's what brings them back and keeps me doing it.   I have customers that drive an hour and forty minutes on labor day to pick up products.  They are coming from one big craft show to where I am which is a bit smaller in a tourist town.   That says a lot.   When I retire I would like to have a small shop where I can sell my products but also teach others how to make them.   I still have a handful of years but that's where I'd like to be.  Plus continue doing my 4-5 shows that I've been doing for years now.  I don't want to make a living off of it but I like being able to supplement my income and do what I love to do.


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## LaToya (Feb 7, 2019)

[QUOTE="I don't expect to be a great success overnight but I do believe that I apply myself and learn and apply what I learn I will be a success.[/QUOTE]

And you absolutely will because you believe and are willing to put in the work.

@shunt2011 Absolutely, you have a plan, now work it.


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## Dawni (Feb 7, 2019)

Been following the conversation here and I never thought I'd enjoy reading about business lol

It hasn't been my thing so far. I've only ever been an employee, with a few "side jobs" scattered in between when I was younger, that allowed me to make money off things I liked doing.

The posts on here are a great study whether it be soap or not. I have a few ideas, soap being one of them in the not so near future because the other things should and will come first. I have done some studies on my own but appreciate very much the time and effort you guys have taken to explain these things.

So thank you


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## Hendejm (Feb 7, 2019)

KiwiMoose said:


> Point of difference.
> To compete in a soap-laden marketplace you must have a point of difference.
> What is yours?  What makes your soap special?  Or what makes YOU special that makes someone want to buy your soap?  If I view 10 websites tonight in the search of artisan soap - why would I chose your soap, your website?
> 
> And for continuing customers - what makes me keep coming back? The service?  Your knowledge of your product? You have something in particular that I cannot get anywhere else?  All of the above?


Good point!  I would argue that it comes down to how much you identify with the brand. Does the website tick the boxes for you?  Does it represent who you are or who you want to be? Does the branding effectively communicate/represent your style...your vision of who you’d like to be? 

Keep in mind that the “face”or owner of a business is part of their brand...often a large part. If Katie Carson of Royalty Soaps were a sour, unhappy, runnof the mill spokesperson for her brand - she wouldn’t be doing nearly as well as she is. Her YouTube channel closely aligns with her brand - upbeat, bubbly, talkative, happy, likable. Her products represent the same. Her Facebook page is a mirror image of her personality. 

If you decide you are like Katie Carson, want to be like Katie Carson, want to be friends with Katie Carson...then you are likely to buy her soap. If Katie’s personality annoys you - you don’t like highly stylized products - you won’t be likely to buy her soap. 

Quality comes in second to brand identity for that initial purchase. You have to identify with the brand and TRUST that it represents who you are or want to be. Quality will keep you coming back and that’s what builds loyalty. 

As some have said in this thread - they sell at shows because of their loyal following. That’s great!  But they need to know why. They aren’t coming back for your quality soap!  They can find quality soap in any town and drug store. But they can’t find YOU in any town or drugstore. They can only find YOU at the craft fair, farmers market, etc. you are selling YOU not your soap! You are your brand. The customer identifies with YOU before they identify with your soap. If you went away and let someone else sell your soap - your sales would suffer because that person doesn’t represent your brand any longer. 

So in small business - the face (owner, spokesperson,etc) of the business is what makes the difference. Change the face of the business - change the future of the business. Think KFC -Colonial Sanders has been dead for years yet they still use his likeness and actors to represent his likeness because he is/was the brand. Everyone can open up a chicken stand and sell chicken - but nobody else can have Colonial Sanders sell their chicken EXCEPT KFC. 

Your persona is a large part of your brand. It’s unique to you...no one else can steal or copy it exactly. That can be what makes you different, unique. Align your personality with your product and marketing - you have a brand. 

And what keeps a customer coming back and being a loyal customer?  YOU! And maybe your brand and the unspoken promise of what your brand represents. Quality counts but it’s only part of the equation.  People will forgive lack of quality ( to a certain extent) if they continue to identify with the product and the brand.


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## dixiedragon (Feb 7, 2019)

melinda48 said:


> We did juried shows on the east coast for several years (metalwork, not Soap) but I will say that if you can’t set up or tear down in 30 minutes, you may want to look at simplifying your display. I know there is some playing around after you get set up but setting up should not take two hours.


Yes, we're working on it! Each show we learn how to do it better. I don't know if 30 minutes is feasible for her - she has a lot of small items. But we're down to about 2 person hours.


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## Hendejm (Feb 7, 2019)

All of what I have said is predicated on the notion of wanting to build a financially successful business. That is not the only barometer. 

You have have a successful business that only covers your costs of doing business. You have have a successful business that connects you with people of like minds - more of a social experience.  

But if you goal is to be successful business financially - then there is really no other way. You may build your business accidentally (as many have done) by ticking the required marketing boxes, or deliberately. But you need to connect with a potential customer on an emotional level. That is what’s determines a financially successful business. 

Use any example, any product, any service...the answer will be the same....with the possible exception of a monopoly or government entity/business. In those cases - the customer doesn’t have the choice or opportunity to select a service or product that they can connect with.  And that would be why there is such high dissatisfaction with the Post Office, cable companies, Department of Motor Vehicles, etc. 

In every other instance - the success or failure of a business or product comes down to whether the consumer can identify with the product, the message, brand identity, availability, relatability. Of course this is predicated on the notion that the service or product fills a need in the marketplace. Soap fills a need - always will. So there will always be demand for soap. Will you have the right brand and product to fill the need? Will the consumer identify with your product?  Will the customer be able to find you? Will you have enough product to meet demand? Will it satisfy the need or want?  If the answers are yes - you can be successful - regardless of how croweded you perceive the market to be.


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## shunt2011 (Feb 7, 2019)

You are wrong that product isn't bringing them back.  My product is what they want. They state they can't find a product like mine that they like. We're not buddy buddy....I can tell you straight up they come for my product first.  I've got emails telling me how much they like my product and want to order more....it's not about me...Yes, I have a nice booth set up and I interact with them.  My product is what they want.


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## redhead1226 (Feb 7, 2019)

I’m so enjoying reading all of this. And the one thing that I wanted to add was that I learned that what we think will sell, is not necessarily true. I do not like , and have never made these “dessert” looking soap and fancy tops  like Royalty Soap makes. Yes she is full of personality and makes soaping look fun. But I would never buy her stuff. But I notice that many of the newer soapers follow her and want to be her!  I make great (what i think is great ) soap because I have been experimenting for years and I love the skin feel. But that does not necessarily equate to sales as the buy on scent and looks. Frankly I don’t think ppl even know the difference. They think every soap is the same. Just smell different. Soooo with that being said, you absolutely have to cater to your market.  I will tell you however, that I have gotten some great Etsy reviews that say that my soap is what soap should be like, and that others haven’t compared. But this is coming from what I see are “older “ customers whose skin needs that milder feel.  ( see attached ) So maybe that’s my market. But it is definitely not the younger crowd that wants to shower with a cupcake.


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## Donee' (Feb 7, 2019)

Latoya D. said:


> I keep crossing posts saying that there is not a lot of money in soap making because there is too much competition.
> 
> Am I the only one who feels that only you (and maybe your higher power) have the power to change that mindset? I honestly feel that if you perfect your craft, and have your own uniqueness about it, there's no telling how high you can soar. I'm just being honest. What do you think?


Dont get fixated on selling at markets.  I am starting a thread called "alternative selling spaces for soap"
Anyway
How many brands of corn flakes do you see in the shops???? Dozens!!!!!!!


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## Donee' (Feb 7, 2019)

Hendejm said:


> Thank you!!!  I’ve had years of experience - successes and failure that make me the “big mouthed - know it all” you see today!  I worked in senior management with some of the United States largest retailers - and my own business that did approx $1 million/annual sales.  I’ve made too many mistakes to count - learning from them is what sets  someone apart from the pack - those that just whine and complain when life hands them lemons!


I agree
I have had just over 20 years in advertising and marketing - so I too can speak with conviction (and experience) about what the buyer wants.
Carry on being big mouthed - you have the experience to be big mouthed


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## Hendejm (Feb 7, 2019)

And and example of an overcrowded industry - Sneakers or tennis shoes!

Nearly everyone wears sneakers. Additionally - most people are devoted to a particular brand. Why? Are they better? Maybe. Are they prettier? Maybe?  Do they satisfy your desire to be more like what thst brand represents? Probably to Absolutely!

Take for example:

Nike - Just do it!  Their brand identity is tied to their core mission statement: “To bring inspiration and *innovation* to every athlete in the world.” The company further states that everybody is an athlete.... “If you have a body, you are an athlete.”

They are appealing to the athlete in all of us. They know that many people look up to and admire athletes. People want to be like those athletes.  We identify with the brand because of how it makes us feel. Ever wonder why there are som many Nike t-shirts out there?  Branding!  It tells everyone that we are an athlete. Even if you don’t know it - you are part of Nike’s brand. 

Reebok - inspire and empower women. And/or - “Be more Human” Look at their spokespersons - Gal Godoy and Ariana Grande. The target customer can relate to the celebritity endorsement. The target customer wants to be like the celebrity - wear the same products as the celebrity. They want to connect their customer to the humanity and personality of life....it’s a big world - connect with each other by buying Reebok.  Life is personal. 

Every sneaker company has a point of view - a means to connect with their core customer. There is much more competition for sneakers than soap yet many sneaker companies survive. If the customer doesn’t connect with your message - you won’t sell sneakers or soap. 

If we can assume that most sneakers meet the need of being at least “good quality” and many sneakers need the need of being “ great quality” - then why can both exist?  The message and how well the company connects with the consumer is how they can be successful. There are lots of inner city kids that don’t have any money to speak of - but they have $150 sneakers. How can this be?  It’s the message of hope, desire, envy, ability, etc. those sneakers represent all those things to the inner city kid. 

Payless sells lots of BOGO sneakers - much lower price. How do they do it?  Connecting with their customer. Fashion, price, quantity, value for dollar...these are things that are important to their core customer. 

Both can survive - but only if you customer identifies with you and your product. Alienate the customer by having a celebrity spokesperson caught up in a scandal- then the customer doesn’t want to be like that company any longer...they find a different brand to align with their values, desires, wants,etc. 

Alienate the customer by changing the brand - For example Coca Cola - you lose customers. They lost millions of dollars when they changed their formula. That formula was nearly -100 years old. Tradition, nostalgia, history....they discarded all the things that the customer related to - Coca Cola represents family values, happy times, good feelings. Change the product - and you have to rebuild all of the feelings that were cultivated over 100 years. 

It ALL comes back to brand. You can be financially successful despite competition and price. If the consumer doesn’t connect with your brand - you cannot be financially successful. Chic fil a - another example of branding. They decided to stand out by taking a political position on a variety of subjects. That is part of their brand. They don’t market to the LGBT community - they market to traditional families and the traditional values that they represent. Right or wrong - doesn’t matter. They know who their customer is and they market only to them.


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## Donee' (Feb 7, 2019)

Latoya D. said:


> I keep crossing posts saying that there is not a lot of money in soap making because there is too much competition.
> 
> Am I the only one who feels that only you (and maybe your higher power) have the power to change that mindset? I honestly feel that if you perfect your craft, and have your own uniqueness about it, there's no telling how high you can soar. I'm just being honest. What do you think?


You CAN make a very comfortable living making artisan soap / products.
Just dont follow everyone else to markets.
I had a food trailer at a market for several years and I can speak from experience - yes you can make money at markets but dont let that be all you target.  Use your imagination and find other ways to sell your soap.
Will go open that thread now.


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## Hendejm (Feb 7, 2019)

shunt2011 said:


> You are wrong that product isn't bringing them back.  My product is what they want. They state they can't find a product like mine that they like. We're not buddy buddy....I can tell you straight up they come for my product first.  I've got emails telling me how much they like my product and want to order more....it's not about me...Yes, I have a nice booth set up and I interact with them.  My product is what they want.


Respectfully - I am not wrong. Your product doesn’t bring them back. You do!  Whether you realize it or not - they are buying you. You give them feature/benefits of your product. You give them product knowledge about your ingredients. You make them believe your have a superior product. You tell them why your soap is different from commercial “soaps”. You build trust with your customer through YOU and your brand. Remove you from the equation - no more brand. Change the product - no more trust in your brand. Stop selling at your craft fair - no more you and they will look for similar product that aligns with their needs.  Your soap is not better than other many other well made  handcrafted soaps. Your ingredients are not different from other soap makers. The difference is YOU and your brand. It’s what  your customer travels 1.5 hours for ....they may not realize that - but that is a fact. Your product is not unique!  They can buy it from many other sources. You and your brand are unique and that is what they are buying. You may think they are buying your soap because it’s unique properties - but that is a myth and a fallacy and downright untrue. But the PERCEPTION of its unique properties - that all comes back to you and your brand.  

Your brand conveys everything about your soap. Your soap performs exactly the same as every other soap - it cleans. But everything else comes from your brand and your messaging. 

A purse or pocketbook carries a wallet, lipstick, change purse, etc. Why then would someone spend $2500 on a Gucci purse that works EXACTLY the same way as at $10 purse?  The brand!!!!!!!!  Gucci represents quality, wealth, exclusive, status. The comsumee is buying the promise of those things. But at the end of the day - it holds things that are needed throughout your day. There is no functional difference between the two purses yet lots $2500 purses are sold each year. The branding is what makes it different-unique-desirable.


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## Donee' (Feb 7, 2019)

Oh well - I see that my other thread topic has been deleted regarding selling your soap. Seems it belongs in the business section and I am not a member of that.
Maybe someone who is part of the business section can start that thread for the benefit of the new sellers.



Hendejm said:


> Respectfully - I am not wrong. Your product doesn’t bring them back. You do!  Whether you realize it or not - they are buying you. You give them feature/benefits of your product. You give them product knowledge about your ingredients. You make them believe your have a superior product. You tell them why your soap is different from commercial “soaps”. You build trust with your customer through YOU and your brand. Remove you from the equation - no more brand. Change the product - no more trust in your brand. Stop selling at your craft fair - no more you and they will look for similar product that aligns with their needs.  Your soap is not better than other many other well made  handcrafted soaps. Your ingredients are not different from other soap makers. The difference is YOU and your brand. It’s what  your customer travels 1.5 hours for ....they may not realize that - but that is a fact. Your product is not unique!  They can buy it from many other sources. You and your brand are unique and that is what they are buying. You may think they are buying your soap because it’s unique properties - but that is a myth and a fallacy and downright untrue. But the PERCEPTION of its unique properties - that all comes back to you and your brand.
> 
> Your brand conveys everything about your soap. Your soap performs exactly the same as every other soap - it cleans. But everything else comes from your brand and your messaging.
> 
> A purse or pocketbook carries a wallet, lipstick, change purse, etc. Why then would someone spend $2500 on a Gucci purse that works EXACTLY the same way as at $10 purse?  The brand!!!!!!!!  Gucci represents quality, wealth, exclusive, status. The comsumee is buying the promise of those things. But at the end of the day - it holds things that are needed throughout your day. There is no functional difference between the two purses yet lots $2500 purses are sold each year. The branding is what makes it different-unique-desirable.


So very nice to hear a marketing person


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## Hendejm (Feb 7, 2019)

Donee' said:


> Oh well - I see that my other thread topic has been deleted regarding selling your soap. Seems it belongs in the business section and I am not a member of that.
> Maybe someone who is part of the business section can start that thread for the benefit of the new sellers.


I don’t think that it’s right to delete valuable insight/discussions. Everyone has opinions and points of view - regardless of experience or length of time in this forum. All points of view are valid and worthy so long as they are respectful and professional. I hope this thread isn’t deleted because it had led the way to so much insight and valuable information that needs to be heard and shared. 

I am a soaper - but also a business person. My experience working for Fortune 500 companies should be able to be heard.  Working for the largest and most succcessful entertainment company in the world -The Walt DISNEY Company - one that is defined by its brand unlike any other company in the world - should be able to be shared. My experience does not come from soaping necessarily - but it can certainly be applied to the soaping industry. 

Censoring us all demeans the true purpose of this forum - to collaborate, share experience, and learn.


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## Donee' (Feb 7, 2019)

The b


Hendejm said:


> I don’t think that it’s right to delete valuable insight/discussions. Everyone has opinions and points of view - regardless of experience or length of time in this forum. All points of view are valid and worthy so long as they are respectful and professional. I hope this thread isn’t deleted because it had led the way to so much insight and valuable information that needs to be heard and shared.
> 
> I am a soaper - but also a business person. My experience working for Fortune 500 companies should be able to be heard.  Working for the largest and most succcessful entertainment company in the world -The Walt DISNEY Company - one that is defined by its brand unlike any other company in the world - should be able to be shared. My experience does not come from soaping necessarily - but it can certainly be applied to the soaping industry.
> 
> Censoring us all demeans the true purpose of this forum - to collaborate, share experience, and learn.


EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID *points up*


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## cmzaha (Feb 7, 2019)

But you are also selling a product that last the average of a month, plus it is an item that, while a necessity, handmade soap is not a necessity. The probable customer base out there is much smaller than the base of customers purchasing soap from Costco which is, likely, less than a dollar a bar. I keep records of sales in graph form and, I can positively say, when disposable income goes down, even due to gas prices going up, sales will fall. *Handmade* soap is not a necessary commodity it is more of a luxury, and trend. Trends tend to change over time. 

Respectfully - I am not wrong, I respectfully disagree with your not being wrong. Like Shari (Shunt) mentioned, customers return for her product. I have many customers that will purchase only my soap, while it may have the ingredients of others it does not mean it is aged the same, same percentages etc etc. I have customers that purchase enough to last them long enough until I am at a show in their area. By doing shows within a 70 miles radius I connect with very large amount of potential customers. When they run out of product they know to email or text me. Again, handmade soap is Not a necessity, some cannot even use it

This is to supplement my retirement, and give me something I like to do, since I cannot travel due to life issues. Although I have crochet, I know they really only sell well in a hospital environment, so some markets I only put out a small sample of what I have. As far as the tennis shoe example I wear what brand does not cause excruciating pain in one of my feet. Could care less what brand it is. But today, with people who practically worship athletes, they think they have to have the shoes, that the big company with the huge advertising funds advertises on tv, radio, newspapers etc. Sadly most soapmakers do not have large marketing funds.


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## Hendejm (Feb 7, 2019)

cmzaha said:


> But you are also selling a product that last the average of a month, plus it is an item that, while a necessity, handmade soap is not a necessity. The probable customer base out there is much smaller than the base of customers purchasing soap from Costco which is, likely, less than a dollar a bar. I keep records of sales in graph form and, I can positively say, when disposable income goes down, even due to gas prices going up, sales will fall. *Handmade* soap is not a necessary commodity it is more of a luxury, and trend. Trends tend to change over time.
> 
> Respectfully - I am not wrong, I respectfully disagree with your not being wrong. Like Shari (Shunt) mentioned, customers return for her product. I have many customers that will purchase only my soap, while it may have the ingredients of others it does not mean it is aged the same, same percentages etc etc. I have customers that purchase enough to last them long enough until I am at a show in their area. By doing shows within a 70 miles radius I connect with very large amount of potential customers. When they run out of product they know to email or text me. Again, handmade soap is Not a necessity, some cannot even use it
> 
> This is to supplement my retirement, and give me something I like to do, since I cannot travel due to life issues. Although I have crochet, I know they really only sell well in a hospital environment, so some markets I only put out a small sample of what I have. As far as the tennis shoe example I wear what brand does not cause excruciating pain in one of my feet. Could care less what brand it is. But today, with people who practically worship athletes, they think they have to have the shoes, that the big company with the huge advertising funds advertises on tv, radio, newspapers etc. Sadly most soapmakers do not have large marketing funds.


cmzaha,  we are saying virtually the same thing - just articulated differently!

Soap is a luxury, commodity, AND a trend. As a business owner - decide which you want to be. If you are a luxury soap maker - your brand needs to highlight that and attract that customer. If you are a commodity soap maker - hightlight the fact that your product is consisent, inexpensive, available anywhere. If you are a trend soap maker - follow color and style trends and market to trendy consumers. 

I am sure that you can point to detailed records and as that sales go down in a bad economy. But if you are trying to sell the same product to the same customer in a different economic climate - I would assume your sales would go down. But if you changed your marketing strategy because your core customer changed - you would still sell soap. If, for example, economics conditions dictates that your customer cannot afford your luxury soap - you then highlight the longevity of you soaps - highlight the fact that your soap lasts twice as long (or whatever) and convey VALUE to your customer because that is now an important part of who she is. You change your message because your core customer changed. Make sense? 

You say that I am wrong when saying your customers don’t buy soap because of you. Without YOU - they don’t know that you age your soap longer. Without YOU - the customer doesn’t know that you use higher percentages of a certain oil/butter.  You are your brand. Remove YOU from the equation and there is nothing. Anyone can copy your recipe - copy your percentages - all of it. They can’t copy you and your brand. That is the only unique part of the equation. 

If it weren’t for your brand (including you) - people wouldn’t look at your soap. They would pass it right by when shopping. They come back to you because you and your brand promise them that you have the best product (whether it’s true or not is irrelevant). They trust your brand to satisfy their need. 

Some other brand may come along and poach that customer because they believe that the other brand will deliver their promise of satisfying their needs and wants. That is what happens in a down economy. Another brand that can offer the same guarantee of quality at a lower price and the customer believes that the other brand will satisfy their needs. That is the reason that you can qualify your statement that your sales go down in a tough economy.  You didn’t change your business model even though your core customer changed. I hope you can understand that. 

You don’t need a large marketing budget to have a successful brand. Grass roots marketing allows you to be successful on any budget. But if you are trying to market to EVERYONE - you will be unsuccessful. You need to identify your customer - and market and sell to them - not the entire population. 

Your mentioned that you have a bad foot - and the most important thing to you in regards to sneakers is comfort!  Of course you are going to be attracted to companies that promise comfort. You are probably not sensitive to price so long as your foot doesn’t hurt.  You probably seek out brands that promise a very comfortable shoe. You probably don’t wear high heels because they don’t market to you. You are not their core customer. And regardless of the economy - you need comfortable shoes so I would imagine you would pay more for a comfortable shoe. The company that understands your need is going to get your business. And often - for people like you - you are going to be drawn to a particular shoe store that specializes in shoes for people like you - thus your loyalty to that shoe store.   You are less loyal to a shoe brand and more loyal to that store because their brand speaks to you. If a miracle drug comes out and makes bad feet a thing of the past - that store owner and/or manufacturer has to change - because their core customer had changed and no longer need comfortable shoes. Terrible example - but I hope you get the point.


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## earlene (Feb 7, 2019)

Hendejm, It's interesting what you say about sneakers.  In our youth, when our feet and legs aren't/weren't so particular about comfort, maybe those things about brand loyalty and so forth are/were true.  Not true at all anymore as we get older, at least not for me.  Finding a pair of shoes (sneakers or any other kind of shoe for that matter) is all about comfort and being able to wear said shoe comfortably for the duration of its life.  Durability matters, of course, as does utility, but without comfort, I won't wear the shoe at all.  If I can't wear it comfortable for a good 8-12 hours long walkabout, I toss it.

Over the course of my many many years, I have found that some brands make a particular style that works well for me, but it never lasts.  They ALWAYS stop making that model of shoe within about 5 years or so, and I have to start the search all over again.  Currently I wear a brand of tennis shoe that I just happily stumbled upon while shopping a high-end shoe store while traveling.  It is the most comfortable one I have ever worn and I sure do hope I can find it again when the time comes.  But I have learned not to expect that.

I think over time, I have come to feel the same about soap.  Besides that my skin has changed over the last several decades.  What my skin liked when I was 20 is not what my skin likes now.  So over time, I suspect that many consumers may change their choices of soap as well.  When I was quite young I formed olfactory memories with Dial bar soap - we bathed with it while camping - that enticed me to buy Dial soap for several years just to bring back that memory.  Eventually I switched to another brand because it was more readily available and I stuck to the same soap for several years.

Now, of course, since I make my own soap, I don't need to shop around for the perfect soap and develop a consumer/seller relationship with a particular brand.  But if I were to sell, which I do not ever plan to do, I would try to incorporate some sort of olfactory component to my line because for me, fragrance carries memories.


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## IrishLass (Feb 7, 2019)

Donee' said:


> Oh well - I see that my other thread topic has been deleted regarding selling your soap. Seems it belongs in the business section and I am not a member of that.
> Maybe someone who is part of the business section can start that thread for the benefit of the new sellers.





Hendejm said:


> I don’t think that it’s right to delete valuable insight/discussions. Everyone has opinions and points of view - regardless of experience or length of time in this forum. All points of view are valid and worthy so long as they are respectful and professional. I hope this thread isn’t deleted because it had led the way to so much insight and valuable information that needs to be heard and shared.



The aforementioned thread was not deleted because of any disagreements about opinions that are held. Robust discussion is good! But here's the thing.....there are designated forums for discussions such as these. Starting such here in the Beginners section is in violation of stated SMF forum rules which were written for a reason. They are not suggestions, they are rules. We've let some of these go on because there has been some very good info for beginners to glean, but it's now gone way past that point, so I'm locking this and any other of the recently begun business-related threads that have been started outside of the designated area. If you want to continue this type of business discussion, it needs to be done in the Business Forum, provided your qualifications to post there are met. Feel free to take it into private conversation if you do not meet the requirements for the Business section yet, but all further publically posted threads of a business nature that are not started in the Business section as per Forum rules will be deleted. 

Here's a reminder of the rules regarding such discussions:

*Business forum rules (pay close attention to rule #3):*

 1) SMF encourages active membership and *requires *a minimum of (50) posts & (3) months membership before posting.
2) Only one link per member per post , others will be deleted.
3) All attempts to post inquiries relating to business matters outside of the Business section in order to skirt the above stated rules and requirements will be deleted. These rules may seem to be overly strict, but is for the protection of our board and membership, and no exceptions will be made.

*Forum Rule # 19 *- Supplemental Rules/Restrictions: Certain sub-forums having to do with sales and swaps located in our Business Forum section and in our Classifieds Forum section have special, supplemental rules and restrictions that must be followed and met before one is allowed to post in those specific areas. This is for the protection of our forum and our membership. The sub-forums of these 2 specific sections that contain supplemental rules will have a special Sicky located near the top of the first page, just below the Announcements area. Please open the Sticky up and read the rules/requirements before posting in that particular sub-forum. All posts made that don't meet the stated requirements for that specific sub-forum will be deleted.

*Forum rule #20* - Comments Regarding Above-stated Rules: Any or all disrespectful, offensive or questionable comments regarding any of the above points will not be tolerated and will result in that thread/comment being edited or deleted by the Moderating Team without further reference to the member.

Thank you,
IrishLass


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