# Do you list the lye in your label of ingredients?



## SunRiseArts

So do you?  If so do you use the word lye, or Sodium Hydroxide?

Is for mother day's gifts, but I am wondering, what if in the future I sell my soap?

Thanks,


----------



## DeeAnna

The generic word "lye" can be used as a name for the mixture of water and ANY alkali that can be used to make soap. That means "lye" could mean any or all of these chemicals -- sodium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide, sodium carbonate, potassium carbonate, and even sodium bicarbonate (baking soda).

So if you make your soap using sodium hydroxide, then your ingredients list needs to say that chemical name, not "lye."


----------



## Susie

But since there is no sodium hydroxide left in the bar of soap, I don't even list that.  Of course, I am not selling, and I may review this issue later.


----------



## Zany_in_CO

> Do you list the lye in your label of ingredients?


Nope. My wholesale customer doesn't either. We just list the ingredients from most to least. It's for the customer's benefit. IMO and IME, Customers that want to know what's in the soap prefer "plain English".


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman

Zany_in_CO said:


> Nope. My wholesale customer doesn't either. We just list the ingredients from most to least. It's for the customer's benefit. IMO and IME, Customers that want to know what's in the soap prefer "plain English".



I don't follow - do you list the oils as in "Olive oil, coconut oil" and so on, or "sodium olivate"? With the former, sodium hydroxide should also be listed.


----------



## cmzaha

If listing what goes in the pot sodium hydroxide should be listed.


----------



## shunt2011

I list sodium hydroxide on my label.  I list everything that goes into the pot.


----------



## CTAnton

I used to be a tad deceptive and start my label with the words, "saponified oils"....many soapers around here do that. Now I list sodium hydroxide as an ingredient. I didn't want to perpetuate the myth of making soap with an alkali....


----------



## navigator9

I think if you're buying soap, you're entitled to know everything that went into it. I list all of the ingredients, and if customers ask, I take that as an opportunity to educate them about lye and soap and labeling. I've never had a customer decide not to buy my soap after I'd explained that it was made using lye.


----------



## Susie

navigator9 said:


> I think if you're buying soap, you're entitled to know everything that went into it. I list all of the ingredients, and if customers ask, I take that as an opportunity to educate them about lye and soap and labeling. I've never had a customer decide not to buy my soap after I'd explained that it was made using lye.



I agree, if you are buying soap, you are definitely entitled to know everything that went into it.  If/when I start selling, I will list everything.  I went to a local grocery store this morning, and lo and behold there was unwrapped soap there.  No labels, the boxes only read which base oils were in there.  No mention of colorants or scents.  Lesson learned.


----------



## DeeAnna

If you're using the "what goes in the pot" method then you list the names of every ingredient that goes in the pot. If you list the fats, you list the alkali. If you list the fragrance, then you list EDTA or the colorants. And so on.

Frankly, I don't know of anyone who puts "saponified oils" in the pot to make soap. Last time I checked, most soapers put fats, water, and alkali in the pot, not saponified oils.

Or use the "what's in the soap" method, as commercial soap makers do. If listing an alkali (sodium hydroxide) is a horrifying thought, then this is an acceptable way to avoid that nasty name. But do it right -- sodium cocoate, sodium olivate, etc, glycerin, water, etc.

If a soaper wants to list all those yummy oils and fats (as per "in the pot" method) as a marketing tactic, but can't stomach the idea of also listing the alkali that is the one amazing ingredient responsible for turning those oils into soap .... well .... frankly, I'd rather see a soap with no ingredients listed at all (which is frowned on but still legal in the US) than an ingredients list that is deliberately deceptive.


----------



## The Efficacious Gentleman

I thought that the current requirements were either a) no label or b) a label with 1) what went in the pot including lye or 2) what is in the soap eg sodium olivate.

The choice is either 1, 2 or a - there is no pick and mix of what goes on the pack.


----------



## navigator9

Susie said:


> I agree, if you are buying soap, you are definitely entitled to know everything that went into it.  If/when I start selling, I will list everything.  I went to a local grocery store this morning, and lo and behold there was unwrapped soap there.  No labels, the boxes only read which base oils were in there.  No mention of colorants or scents.  Lesson learned.



And then there are people who don't mind buying soap with no label, and that's fine too. What bothers me is if I get the feeling that the seller is trying to hide something, or trick me. Grrrr...I hate that, and that alone is enough to prevent me from buying. Just put the ingredients on the label, and let me decide for myself.


----------



## Steve85569

"Made with" I do list sodium hydroxide along with the oils and liquids used.

"Contains" I do not. INCI names are then used.( sodium olivate, sodium cocoate etc...)

My personal preference is to use the " made with" version. I do not sell. I am letting friends and family know what's in the recipe.

That's just what I do. Others do what they do and it's okay with me.


----------



## Millie

I make soap for friends, family and coworkers, and package it nicely with a complete list of ingredients. And then I brag about how scary lye is to work with. Imagine you have a friend who makes jam. The first gift seems impressive and thoughtful. Then the friend gives you piles of jam on every occasion. It might get boring, unless they have a fantastic story about how they had to battle a bear to harvest the berries - boy, that would be some precious jam, and I'm sure it would taste sweeter too


----------



## Scooter

Millie said:


> I make soap for friends, family and coworkers, and package it nicely with a complete list of ingredients. And then I brag about how scary lye is to work with. Imagine you have a friend who makes jam. The first gift seems impressive and thoughtful. Then the friend gives you piles of jam on every occasion. It might get boring, unless they have a fantastic story about how they had to battle a bear to harvest the berries - boy, that would be some precious jam, and I'm sure it would taste sweeter too



Well I, for one, can never have enough jam... especially the wild blackberry kind. So anyone who has any extra jammy jam jam can send it on to me.


----------



## IrishLass

Here is some very helpful info from Marie Gale, who is considered to be an expert on the matter of labeling soap & cosmetics in the USA: http://www.mariegale.com/ingredient-labels-soap/

I don't sell, but I do gift a lot, and I use the "Made with" method, listing sodium hydroxide along with all my other ingredients that went into the pot (in incremental order from greatest to the least).


IrishLass


----------



## cmzaha

CTAnton said:


> I used to be a tad deceptive and start my label with the words, "saponified oils"....many soapers around here do that. Now I list sodium hydroxide as an ingredient. I didn't want to perpetuate the myth of making soap with an alkali....


The word "saponified" is not recognized by FDA so it makes it mislabeled
You have two choices when labeling soap, what ingredients go in the pot or what come out of the pot such as Sodium lardate for lard, Sodium Tallowate for tallow, Sodium Cocoate for Coconut Oil etc.


----------



## Saranac

IrishLass said:


> Here is some very helpful info from Marie Gale, who is considered to be an expert on the matter of labeling soap & cosmetics in the USA: http://www.mariegale.com/ingredient-labels-soap/



I highly recommend this book.  A lot of the information is included on Marie's website, but nothing beats having a desk copy full of post-it notes and dog-eared pages.

With that said, my understanding is that as long as your product is real soap (fat/oils and lye) and you're making no claims other than that it cleans*, you can list your ingredients however you like, so long as you're not being deceptive.  With regards to sodium hydroxide, it used to bother me--and then I read an ingredient label on a name-brand lotion that included it.  I figured if that doesn't bother people, than it shouldn't bother them to see it in my soap.

As for the ingredient list, personally, I like the idea of the out-of-the-pot list, but without having my soap analyzed in a lab, I feel I'm being more accurate by listing what went-in-the-pot.

*With regards to claims, Gale (2015) writes in her book about "intended use" and states, "[t]he intended use is what the consumer thinks the product is for or what it will do" (p. 25).  I take that to mean that if a customer sees oats in your soap and thinks it will help eczema (even if you haven't made that claim), your soap is no longer "just soap."  In that case, if you think someone might think your soap is more than just soap, it might be best to label it as a cosmetic.


----------



## SunRiseArts

Thank you all!.  I think I will use the _made with_ method, as they are gifts.  I too always like to know what is in the stuff I am getting.  The main reason I asked, is because an awesome lady on a swap site, send me one as a gift, and only listed the oils.  Mind you we were trading dottee dolls.  The soap was an extra. The soap was amazing!


----------



## Dahila

Us and Canada, we have similar rules, Sodium hydroxide in not longer present in soap but you list water more or less at 10% and next to it glycerin


----------

