# Price/quality ratio: Best bang for your buck fragrance oils



## ryanlogic (Dec 29, 2014)

Hey guys, this is my first post! 

I'm planning a new side business for auxiliary income selling oil based roll on style men's fragrances and I need to find the best "bang for your buck" source for fragrances. I know this forum is mostly for soapmaking, but I think this discussion is valid for anyone producing anything that uses fragrance oils. 

Originally, I was looking at suppliers who sell fragrances suitable for body oil for around $10-20/pound. For example, 6.6 pounds of frankincense & myrrh costs ~$65 from New Directions Aromatics (http://www.newdirectionsaromatics.com/frankincense-myrrh-fragrant-oil-p-2271.html)


Madinah international sells frankincense and Myrrh body oil for $24/lb (http://www.madinaonline.com/items.asp?Cc=P160&iTpStatus=0&Tp=&Bc=) 


People on the basenotes forum suggested saveonscents.com, but I notice the fragrances (even at the lowest dilution) are more expensive. For example, Frankincense  and Myrrh starts at $26 per pound and tops off at ~$51 per pound for the extreme concentration. (http://www.saveonscents.com/product_info.php/cPath/291_295_402/products_id/226)

I guess I'm just trying to find that sweet spot between price and quality. I want to make a strong and noticeable product that competes well on the market, but I need to keep the numbers low enough to make a profit selling in higher volume locally. 

Obviously, you guys are way more experienced than me. What suppliers do you think give the best bang for your buck? I'm sure there are plenty that I didn't mention... So don't hesitate to chime in about good suppliers you know of.

I would also be interested if any of you knew about a forum more relevant to my interests... Everywhere I go, I seem to be the odd man out of the bunch making fragrance oils.  

Thanks in advance,

Ryan


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## shunt2011 (Dec 29, 2014)

Unfortunately, there isn't just one place that most of us purchase our EO/FO's.  Fragrances will differ from one company to the next.  I myself have 3-4 places I purchase my fragrances from as do many others.  Some other companies to check out (depending on where you live).  Nature's Garden, Wholesale Supplies Plus, BrambleBerry, Elements Bath & Body, New Direction's, Mad Oils and several others.   It's just a matter of finding the one/one's that you like best.

Also if you do a search on this site you will come up with more options.  Or look at the bottom of this post and there are some topic that are related to your question.

Welcome to the forum.


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## navigator9 (Dec 29, 2014)

Shunt is correct. It would be nice if there were one supplier where we could buy all of our fragrance oils, but unfortunately, that's not the case. When you start buying FOs, you'll find that you like the Sandalwood from one supplier, but not their Lavender, so you buy that somewhere else, and get your Lemon Verbena from still another. This is yet another thing that makes soapmaking an expensive hobby/business. If you have a very limited number of FOs that you plan to use, you *may* find ones that pass your quality test all at one supplier, but if you use more than just a few, you will most likely have to shop around.


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## dixiedragon (Dec 29, 2014)

I think that, if you are buying in large quantities, the best bang for your buck is companies like Lebermuth who a) have their own perfumer and manufacture their own fragrances and b) don't sell in quantities below 1 pound.


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## ryanlogic (Dec 29, 2014)

At this point what I'm most concerned about is staying profitable without diluting the product too much. I want to stay competitive and challenge the existing offerings that can be found locally. Basically, I'm trying to make a local brand that can sell itself in the gas stations, beauty shops Etc. 

Let's say I can fill 100 bottles of oil perfume for $1.00 each including cost of bottle, label, and disposable point of purchase display. I need to sell them for at least $2.00 in order for my labor investment to pay off monetarily. That's not a bad numbered sell if the quality and packaging are good because retailers will see the value compared to the sloppily packaged and watered down junk they are already selling...But only if the quality of my product significantly exceeds the quality of the competition. It wouldn't be hard for retailers to sell them for $5.00 each or 2/$8.00.

I need to find the sweet spot.



dixiedragon said:


> I think that, if you are buying in large quantities, the best bang for your buck is companies like Lebermuth who a) have their own perfumer and manufacture their own fragrances and b) don't sell in quantities below 1 pound.




Thanks, that company seems like a slightly better deal than save on scents but I would need to request samples. I would hate to order 10 pounds of something putrid. 

I see myself initially ordering around 10-20 pounds (total) and as things expand moving up to larger orders. I wonder if they do bulk discounts when ordering multiple scents or only when ordering large amounts of the same scent.

I want to make money doing this, but I'm also trying to set this up as a way to eventually help people gain financial independence. I see this as a project model that could help people in struggling communities by providing a source of clean income. I envision myself eventually putting together "selling kits" if that makes sense.


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## MarisaJensen (Dec 29, 2014)

Like Shunt and Navigator I shop from different suppliers. I have about 6 different suppliers on my list of which most have been named here. 

For what you are trying to do it sounds like fragrance oils would be the direction to go. Essential oils can be expensive. Not to say that Fragrance oils are not but at least cost wise it would seem more effective. Also, always include shipping in the price of your materials (bottles, oils, fragrances, etc). 

Have you picked out your line of scents?
Do you know how many different scents you will be carrying?
Where are you located? Do you need fast shipping?
Do you know how many stands and bottles you will be starting off with?
How will you handle returns?
Before you embark on your journey, do you have specific locations allowing you to place your stand?
Have you worked out what commissions or wholesale price of your product?


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## shunt2011 (Dec 29, 2014)

^^
This as well.  You need to have a business plan in place as well as insurance, tax id and anything else your area may require to have a business.   Have you priced out the cost of the bottles, labels, stands etc?


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## MarisaJensen (Dec 29, 2014)

ryanlogic said:


> Thanks, that company seems like a slightly better deal than save on scents but I would need to request samples. I would hate to order 10 pounds of something putrid.
> 
> I see myself initially ordering around 10-20 pounds (total) and as things expand moving up to larger orders. I wonder if they do bulk discounts when ordering multiple scents or only when ordering large amounts of the same scent.



Lebermuth is a great company. I've yet to order anything from them that isn't high quality. In my opinion they are one of the best companies for bulk orders and good product. They also have good customer service. 

One I haven't seen mentioned here is perfumers apprentice. If you google them you will find their website. I have a friend who orders from them and swears by them. I've never ordered from them personally but I've tested their products through my friend and I enjoyed the fragrances. *not shure if they do wholesale/bulk but worth contacting them.


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## dixiedragon (Dec 29, 2014)

A poster here said that Lebermuth will do samples, you just have to contact them and ask. So you can order some samples, then order a large quantity of your product.


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## ryanlogic (Dec 29, 2014)

shunt2011 said:


> ^^
> This as well.  You need to have a business plan in place as well as insurance, tax id and anything else your area may require to have a business.   Have you priced out the cost of the bottles, labels, stands etc?




I'm a teacher by profession, so right now I'm basically trying to get everything planned out and set up for the summer break. I plan to set up either a sole proprietorship or a LLC so I can sell product legally and pay taxes etc. I haven't looked into insurance, but I guess that's another thing I need to consider. Any suggestions? 

The plan is to use the two months I have off to get the fragrances into as many locations as possible so that when the next school year starts, I just have to do product maintenance.

As far as bottles and labels go, I've decided on square 8ml roll on bottles... And I'm working on having labels printed but that won't happen until I secure a business name and get set up legally. I need to do research about barcodes as well.

As far as stands and product placement I'm thinking about using generic stadium style cardboard displayers with dividers at first, and then moving towards purchasing custom printed cardboard point of purchase displays. I'm also considering the possibility of making larger wooden displays for more high end locations, but for now I'm trying to keep it simple. I'm hoping that professional labeling will stand out enough where a generic cardboard POP display won't detract from sales... Plus I think some retailers will be hesitant to put a permanent display on their counters until the see the product selling.



dixiedragon said:


> A poster here said that Lebermuth will do samples, you just have to contact them and ask. So you can order some samples, then order a large quantity of your product.




Sounds like a plan. 

Since I ordered a variety of scents from saveonscents.com, I can order some of the same from Lebermuth and see how they compare. I'll have to look into whether or not they will deal with me before I have a business license.



MarisaJensen said:


> Like Shunt and Navigator I shop from different suppliers. I have about 6 different suppliers on my list of which most have been named here.
> 
> For what you are trying to do it sounds like fragrance oils would be the direction to go. Essential oils can be expensive. Not to say that Fragrance oils are not but at least cost wise it would seem more effective. Also, always include shipping in the price of your materials (bottles, oils, fragrances, etc).
> 
> ...




I ordered a big order of samples from saveonscents and the plan is to decide on 5-10 to place in stores. I plan to sell them wholesale to local stores, and then periodically refill them or sell them new displays

I ordered samples of the following: 

Arabian Sandalwood
 Arabic Coffee
 Aspen (M) |Type*|
 Bakhoor
 Chrome (M) |Type*|
 Deeper (M) |Type*|
 Egyptian Musk
 English Leather (M) |Type*|
 Escaped (M) |Type*|
 Exotic Amazon Teakwood
 Firewood
 Frankincense Classic
 Fusion Sacree (M) |Type*|
 Grey Vetiver (M) |Type*|
 Nautiqa Competition (M) |Type*|
 Oud Black
 Oud Wood (M) |Type*|
 Patchouli (Indonesian)
 Royal Water (M) |Type*|
 Silver Mountain Water (M) |Type*|
 Smoke
 Smokey Oud
 Sweet Oud
 Tobacco Vanille (U) Type

I don't know why this app keeps posting twice, sorry. 

Admin please delete if you see this.

I received the above mentioned 1oz sample sizes from saveonscents.com.

Although some smell quite good, many of the fragrances are really weak... Its pretty disappointing since I paid for the *extreme concentration. 

Amongst the scents I like... I wouldn't be comfortable diluting them before sale which would make it very tough to make money without selling them at a more premium price point. 

I need to order samples from some other places to compare.


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## dixiedragon (Jan 9, 2015)

ryanlogic said:


> I received the above mentioned 1oz sample sizes from saveonscents.com.
> 
> Although some smell quite good, many of the fragrances are really weak... Its pretty disappointing since I paid for the *extreme concentration.
> 
> ...


 
Whether or not you are comfortable with diluting them - for safety's sake it's not optional. FOs are NOT meant to be used in 100% concentration on the skin and it is NOT SAFE. The seller should have info on their site on safe concentrations. For example, Brambleberry's Solid Perfume recipe 1 oz of Solid Perfume Base (Coconut oil, beeswax, sweet almond oil) and 1/4 oz of fragrance.

Before you totally reject them, try them out. Many fragrances will smell weak in the bottle and "open up" when they are used in a product.

Are you a member of the Soap Scent Review Board?


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## new12soap (Jan 9, 2015)

One thing to keep in mind when shopping for fragrance oils is safe usage rates. Some suppliers are very good about providing IFRA safe rates, others are not. Some FO's can cause irritation and other issues when used in higher concentrations and it is IMPORTANT to know!


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## ryanlogic (Jan 9, 2015)

I was looking at the saveonscents usage chart and it led me to believe that their fragrance os were safe in full concentration for use as perfume oil. 

Regardless I would have to dilute them if I wanted to make the business profitable.


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## new12soap (Jan 9, 2015)

The strongest recommended concentration is of their "weakest" scents, at 30-35% for the strongest perfume. _It MUST be diluted to be safe for use on skin!_ The only categories that suggest using full strength are for potpourri or incense.

I have never ordered from SOS but those levels of concentration suggest to me that their oils may be diluted. You may want to give them a try, but I think I would keep looking. JM2C.


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## ryanlogic (Jan 9, 2015)

new12soap said:


> The strongest recommended concentration is of their "weakest" scents, at 30-35% for the strongest perfume. _It MUST be diluted to be safe for use on skin!_ The only categories that suggest using full strength are for potpourri or incense.
> 
> I have never ordered from SOS but those levels of concentration suggest to me that their oils may be diluted. You may want to give them a try, but I think I would keep looking. JM2C.




The chart above very clearly states 1:1 mixture for strong body oil. That would be 50% right?


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## Aline (Jan 10, 2015)

ryanlogic said:


> The chart above very clearly states 1:1 mixture for strong body oil. That would be 50% right?



Yes. I use 1 part FO to 1 part carrier for perfume oils. The SOS and Ultra concentrations at Save on Scents are simply diluted with a solvent (most likely di-propylene glycol). Extreme simply means undiluted like all the other FO companies LOL. I buy from them but I find this deceptive. You should also be aware that when a company refers to their product as a 'Body Oil' (like Madina does) it is already diluted. Again, this company does not actually state this :Kitten Love:

I personally think you would make more money going for quality of scent (and great packaging) than focusing on buying the cheapest fragrance oils out there. Fragrance does not need to be dirt cheap to sell like hot cakes and the profit margins can be pretty high.


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## ryanlogic (Jan 10, 2015)

"Perfect for high end stores or dilute" makes me feel like these do not need to be diluted to be skin safe.


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## Dorymae (Jan 10, 2015)

The way you would make money on fragrance oils to sell to stores would not be to buy one and dilute it.  You would either buy in huge bulk then break them down into smaller quantities and charge more per ounce or you go all in and buy a distiller to create EO's, you would probably need at least 20 acres of land to boot to grown the flower or plant.

If you really want to make money from FO or EO you need to buy in pounds not ounces.  So for example lets say you buy a drum of fragrance A (25lbs) for about $540.00.  25lbs is equal to 400 ounces.  You break these up into 1 oz bottles and 5oz bottles.  Your cost is 1.35 per ounce.  You could easily make a profit then selling to stores.  Stores around me sell an ounce for around 7-8 dollars!! Hence the reason I shop online!  

I don't want to squash your dreams, but I do want you to look at this realistically.  How much space do you have for all the drums and bottles you would need?  You are talking about opening a distribution business - there is a reason they are usually run from warehouses.


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## new12soap (Jan 10, 2015)

ryanlogic said:


> "Perfect for high end stores or dilute" makes me feel like these do not need to be diluted to be skin safe.




Because they are ALREADY diluted.


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## Aline (Jan 10, 2015)

That is odd that SOS would indicate that the XC can be used neat as from what I understand it is not diluted. They say "Save On Scents Extreme Concentrates fragrances oils are compounds in their purest form". They had better not be diluted at those prices! I'm going to ask them.....


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## ryanlogic (Jan 10, 2015)

Dorymae said:


> The way you would make money on fragrance oils to sell to stores would not be to buy one and dilute it.  You would either buy in huge bulk then break them down into smaller quantities and charge more per ounce or you go all in and buy a distiller to create EO's, you would probably need at least 20 acres of land to boot to grown the flower or plant.
> 
> If you really want to make money from FO or EO you need to buy in pounds not ounces.  So for example lets say you buy a drum of fragrance A (25lbs) for about $540.00.  25lbs is equal to 400 ounces.  You break these up into 1 oz bottles and 5oz bottles.  Your cost is 1.35 per ounce.  You could easily make a profit then selling to stores.  Stores around me sell an ounce for around 7-8 dollars!! Hence the reason I shop online!
> 
> I don't want to squash your dreams, but I do want you to look at this realistically.  How much space do you have for all the drums and bottles you would need?  You are talking about opening a distribution business - there is a reason they are usually run from warehouses.




I bought ounces as samples because I am trying to pick scents. 

I plan to buy in bulk, and distribute in smaller quantities. That's the whole  point, right?

Do you know where I should be looking as far a suppliers go?


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## Dorymae (Jan 10, 2015)

ryanlogic said:


> I bought ounces as samples because I am trying to pick scents.
> 
> I plan to buy in bulk, and distribute in smaller quantities. That's the whole  point, right?
> 
> Do you know where I should be looking as far a suppliers go?



Depends on how much you want to buy. Wholesale supplies plus sells up to 25 lbs. Paradise fragrances will sell up to 400 lbs - but you must have a business account with a resale number.


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## The Efficacious Gentleman (Jan 11, 2015)

Dorymae said:


> .......... Paradise fragrances will sell up to 400 lbs - but you must have a business account with a resale number.




Which I think will be the only way to make money on something like this. Trying to do it without a bulk supplier just won't work out


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## cmzaha (Jan 11, 2015)

400 lb drums would have to go freight and would not be delivered to a residence. And maybe I am wrong about the freight according to their website. What a weird site Paradise Fragrance has!


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## zolveria (Apr 12, 2015)

the are not diluted i purchase maple wood  one and I must say it is so strong.  I use a dropper x 2 and my 3lb soap smell awesome. one thing. People Like High End  Scent. Like that amount in Chanel's body lotions. 15ml dilute with 15ml polysorbate it was still strong.


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